ANSTEORRAN COLLEGE OF HERALDS
Collated Commentary on IloI 0300
Herewith please find the decisions made on ILoI0300 at Elfsea Springfaire on May 20, AS XXXV, being 2000 in the common era.
Kathri, Asterisk
Unto the Ansteorran College of Heralds does Estrill Swet, Retiarius Pursuivant, make greetings.
For information on commentary submission formats or to receive a copy of the collated commentary, you can contact me at:
Deborah Sweet
824 E 8th, Stillwater, OK 74074
405/624-9344 (before 10pm)
Commenters for this issue:
Gawain of Miskbridge – Green Anchor Herald, Calontir
Maridonna Benvenuti - Names only. Sources: Withycombe 3rd ed.; Reaney and Wilson 3rd ed.; Ekwall 4th ed.; OED Compact, 1971; Black, 1996. Colm Dubh's Inn and Tavern Names (KWHS, 1998)
Da'ud ibn Auda - al-Jamal Herald
Magnus von Lübeck – Raven's Fort Bryn Gwlad – I have screwed up one name yet again: our new commenter's name is "Salvador", as in El or San. Also present: Gwenllian ferch Maredudd, Mari nic Bryan, Andri de Chartres, Johann Kiefer Hayden, Daniel de Lincoln (y'r humble scribe and first-person comments). Unless noted, we checked all armory against the 8th edition Ordinary and we found no conflicts. No conflicts found on names except as noted.
1. Ariane Lancaster (Namron)
New name. New device. Per pale sable and purpure, a sun argent.
Maridonna Benvenuti [Name]- Withycombe says of Ariadne: "…The name was borne by an obscure Phrygian martyr, and in the forms 'Arianna' and 'Ariane' has been used in Italy and France respectively. It has been used occasionally in England of late years, probably with no reference to the saint." I can't find any documentation in my sources that 'Ariane' was used as an English name in period. Lancaster - OK
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Withycombe page 31 under Ariadne gives it as the name of an obscure Phrygian martyr and the form Ariane is used in France but no date is given. Most of the name's use in England appears to be modern. Morlet in Volume 2 Names from the Latin dates Arianus from 878. The Book of Saints by Benedictine monks of St. Augustine Abbey, Ramsgate, 6th ed., A. & C. Black Ltd. London, 1989, gives St. Arian from 311 AD as the governor of Thebes in Egypt. The female form of the name may have survived in France until the Norman Conquest to be brought to England but this is speculation. Reaney & Wilson page 270 under Lanchester gives Heruis de Langecestre from 1150 and Walter de Lancestre from 1344.
Bryn Gwlad [Device] Conflict with the Ansteorran Chronicler's badge, "(Tinctureless) A mullet of five greater and five lesser points distilling gouttes.". 1 CD for fieldless / tinctureless, no CD for the maintained gouttes (as stated in many previous Laurel returns). A previous Crown and chronicler said they were willing to release the badge entirely. I've heard that a more recent set said they wanted to make it monotinctured. 1. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
Device: Returned for conflict with the Ansteorran Chronicler's badge (see Bryn Gwlad).
2. Armando de la Cabanna (Steppes)
New device. Name submitted in IloI08899, LoI1099 [and registered 2/2000]. Sable, a double-bitted ax and on a chief Or, a mullet of five greater and five lesser points sable.
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Device] Ah, a capo d'Ansteorra. (Not unlike the capo dell'Impero or capo d'Angiò used by the Guelphs and the Ghibellines, respectively.)
Bryn Gwlad [Device] Hard to tell from the mini-emblazon: if the mullet on the chief is touching both edges, it's "throughout"; if neither, it's not; if one edge but not the other, it's not really period style and someone should take a bit of white-out to it. Bordure should probably touch up the mini before it goes on the LoI.
This is a fine period-style example of a chief of alliegance. That was a practice especially done in Italy, where a Guelf or Ghibbeline would use a chief of France (azure with fleurs-de-lys Or) or of the Empire (Or, an eagle sable) to show alliegance. Daniel commends him. In an early Ansteorran Gazette, Tadhg Liath, then Star, grumped that Ansteorra would consider the Ansteorran mullet to be reserved for Ansteorra augmentations. Daniel disagrees strongly. Laurel doesn't reserve such kingdom charges, be it our star, the four crescents conjoined of Caid, the Calontiri cross of Calatrava, et cetera. That means that a kingdom return would be immediately appealed to Laurel, and it would be registered (barring other problems). In such a case, the Ansteorran CoH would just be say "nyah nyah, gotta say the magic word 'appeal'", delaying the submission a few months, and possibly losing him the chance to register due to another registration in the interim. For this reason, Daniel believes that each kingdom CoH should just enforce Laurel's rules and not make new ones. (There's an Bruce prec. anyway that arguably forbids it anyway.) Further, we should encourage a nice period practice that's rarely done.
Close but clear of Neil Greenstone, "Sable, a double-bitted axe and a bordure Or". 1 CD for the type of secondary and 1 CD for the addition of the tertiary.
2. COLLEGE ACTION:
Device: Forwarded to Laurel.
3. Caitlin ferch Gwynora (Dragonsfire Tor)
New device. Name registered 11/93. Per chevron wavy argent and azure, a rabbit courant to sinister sable.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Device] The rabbit obscures the wavy field division and causes problems with identifiability. Perhaps a little smaller hare.
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] A part-metal / part-color field is neutral per X.2.a.ii, "as long as identifiability is maintained". There was some question about the amound of sable bunny over the blue part of the field.
3. COLLEGE ACTION:
Device: Returned because the rabbit obscures the wavy field division, and the combination of azure and sable creates further problems with identifying both the rabbit and the field division. The primary suggestions from the meeting were: (1) Make the chevron steeper – period chevrons often looked like "a pile reversed." (2) Use gules instead of azure, or instead of sable. The blue-red or black-red combination creates much more contrast than blue-black.
4. Catalina Ana de Salamanca (Bryn Gwlad)
New name. New device. Argent, a wagon wheel azure, a bordure vert.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Donald Mathew, Atlas of Medieval Europe, Facts On File Inc., New York, page 70 gives Salamanca on a map from 1031 and page 114 on a map from 1300. Melcon, Apellidos Castellano- Leoneses, page 235 has Salamanca as a province with people dated from 1086, 1186, 1198 1206 and 1286. Page 244 also lists it as a province with people dated to 1142, 1229, 1245, and 1299.
Bryn Gwlad [Name] http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/juliana/isabella/locative.html, "Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century" by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith, [email protected]), is drawn from "the account books of Isabel of Castilla". She dates "de Salamanca" to the late 15th C, apparently in that spelling.
[Device] Close but clear of Eldred {AE}lfwald, "Argent, a wheel, a bordure embattled azure", for the tincture and complex line of the bordure.
4. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel.
5. Dominique Michelle le Vasseur (Steppes)
Resubmitted device. Name registered 2/99. Argent, a peacock contourney and a bordure invected purpure.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Device] Close but clear this time of Mahala de Sorbonne December 1987: "Argent, a peacock in its pride proper, a bordure invected purpure." One CD for turning the peacock contourny and a CD for pavonated vs. in its pride. The blazon could use pavonated to base added.
Bryn Gwlad [Device] Consider Helena of Heathcote, "Argent, a heathcock passant to sinister within a bordure purpure". 1 CD for the complex line of the bordure. Is there a CD for they type of bird? A moorcock / heathcock is shown on Fox-Davies Complete Guide to Heraldry, p. 249. He says some depictions show an uplifted tuft of feathers in the tail, but some just have a broad tail.
"Send it up when you're in doubt / Write to Laurel to work it out", doggerals Johann Kiefer Hayden.
Close but clear of Mahala de Sorbonne, "Argent, a peacock in its pride proper, a bordure invected purpure". 1 CD for posture. 1 CD for tincture: a peacock proper is blue or green.
5. COLLEGE ACTION:
Device: Forwarded to Laurel reblazoned as "..a peacock pavonated contourny.." with a request for a visual check against Helena of Heathcote.
6. Donald MacDonald (Lindenwood)
New name. New device. Vert, three sheep statant argent.
Maridonna Benvenuti
[Name]- Donald - as stated; MacDonald - Black also shows the late spellings of McDonyll in 1521 and MakDonald in 1571. Bryn Gwlad
[Device] To Donald, Daniel bequeaths all the Norman sheep jokes.
6. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel.
7. Elizabeth Curry (Brad Leah)
New household name Greymoore Pack. New badge. Name registered 8/88 from Meridies. (Fieldless) A tawny greyhound courant contourny winged azure and carrying in his mouth a hunting horn vert. [Asterisk: the greyhound is Crayola Classic Marker brown.]
Gawain of Miskbridge
[Name] I don't see how this name fits into the allowable categories of prototypes for household names; it looks like neither a guild, a family, a military unit, nor an inn name.
[Badge] The blazon says we have "a tawny greyhound. . . azure." Perhaps what's intended is "a tawny greyhound proper. . . winged azure"?
Maridonna Benvenuti
[Name] - Greymoore - Ekwall shows 'Graythwaite' [Graythwayt 1336]"…the first element may be ON gra(r) or OE graeg 'grey'". Ekwall says "OE mor 'moor, waste upland; fen is common in pl.ns…Dartmoor, Exmoor and the like…" I believe that 'Greymoor' is reasonable.
Pack - OED shows 'pack' as 'a number of animals' was cited as first recorded in use in 1648, post period. I suppose the submitter means an animal pack. So with this thought in mind there is in English folklore and Brythonic mythology the Hell Hounds, Whist Hounds, and Gabriel Hounds; and the Welsh Hell Hounds (Cwn Annwn). Would the submitter consider the word 'Hounds' rather than pack? I found in Inn and Tavern Names the name 'Halifax crosse', with
I believe House of Greymoor Hounds to be reasonable: a house called Greymoor where hounds are kept or bred.
Da'ud ibn Auda [Household name] "Word dated to 1175-1225 in various meanings"? What meanings, specifically? Does it mean in period what it means now? Did it then mean "a number of hounds, usually used together in a hunt"? This information should have been included for us. There are many words which have dramatically changed their meaning over the centuries ("awful" used to mean "inspiring awe", not "dreadful", for example).
[Badge] "Tawny" is not an heraldic tincture. (Tenn{e'} is an heraldic stain, not used in the SCA.) Brown, or "proper", may not be used for monsters, most of which have no defined heraldic "proper" tincture. "We are returning the device for improper use of brown. While you can have a brown rabbit, since rabbits are found to be brown in nature, no evidence has been presented for winged rabbits in any color, let alone brown." (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR February 1997, p. 23) And in returning a brown bull of Saint Luke proper, Laurel stated: "While we register brown beasts proper if the animal is found naturally brown, such as a brown rabbit, or a brown hound, this is not a beast, but rather a monster, because of the wings and halo. Since monsters do not have proper coloration, they cannot be brown." (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR May 1998, p. 28) A winged dog is not a dog, but a monster, and may not be blazoned as "proper" nor be "brown".
Magnus von Lübeck
[Household name] Conflict with House Greymoor registered to Edward Cire of Greymoor February 1986 (via Calontir).
[Badge] Blazon as: "(Fieldless) A tawny greyhound courant contourny proper, winged azure, maintaining in his mouth a hunting horn vert."
Bryn Gwlad [Name] No evidence was presented that "[anything] Pack" was used in period to name anything, much less the requirement of RfS III.2.b.iv, "Household names must follow the patterns of period names of organized groups of people." (note: period names, organized groups, people), and I.1, "In all cases, the burden of proving compatibility shall lie on the individual making the submission or that individual's duly constituted representatives.". Laurel, 4/99 LoAR Cover Letter: "Saying that somone thinks the name is reasonable is not documentation -- the College needs to know *why* they think the name is reasonable". That's why we call this "return for further work": it wouldn't surprise us unduly if it was period, but it has to be proven to be registered.
Another cause for return is conflict: House Greymoor (2/86, Edward Cire of Greymoor).
By RfS V.2.a, "A *descriptive element* is a word other than a designator, an article, a preposition, or the name of a branch of the Society". RfS III.2.b says "Non-Personal Names - Branch names, ... and household names must consist of a designator that identifies the type of entity and at least one descriptive element." The CoA Glossary says, "Designator. ... may be other kinds of designations such as 'Order', 'Guild', 'House', 'Office', 'Pursuivant' and so forth.", thus not limiting it to the standard few we usually see. In "House Greymoor", "House" is the designator. In "Greymoore Pack", either it has no designator (which would cause its return for lack of a designator per III.2.b), or "Greymoore" is the designator (which is absurd; it's not a "type of entity"), or "Pack" is the designator (the only choice left). The two names have the same number of descriptive elements, then: "Greymoor" in one, "Greymoore" in the other.
V.2.a: "Two descriptive elements are considered significantly different if they differ significantly in both sound and appearance." The Greymoor*s don't. The conflict rules are under V.2.b: "Two non-personal names with the same number of descriptive elements conflict unless at least one of the following conditions is met". The two cases provided requires either a significant change in descriptive elements, or a change in meaning due to descriptive elements; neither happens here. Hence, conflict.
I believe "House Greymoore Pack", or adding any other second designator, would be returned for being nonsensical: something can't be both a house and a pack.
[Device] "[Fieldless] A brown greyhound courant contourny proper winged azure maintaining in its mouth a hunting horn vert". (Daniel's irrelevant comment: "With genetic engineering, the Swiss monks developed a much better rescue dog than the boring old Saint Bernard".)
7. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Returned for conflict with House Greymoor registered to Edward Cire of Geymoor (2/86, Calontir). Futhermore, there is insufficient evidence for the word "pack" as a designator in a household name. See above for discussion, and Maridonna for a suggestion.
Badge: Returned for use of brown tincture on a creature that does not exist in nature. Adding wings turns a dog into a heraldic monster. Only animals who exist in nature as brown can be depicted as brown in SCA armory. Heraldic monsters do not exist in nature, therefore they cannot be brown (as experience has proved).
8. Elspeth de Forbeys (Steppes)
New change of primary name from Isobel Margaret de Forbeys reg. 4/97.
Maridonna Benvenuti
[Name] - Great Scots name, but not the 'Scottish Highlands' the submitter wanted.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Black, Surnames of Scotland, page 646 under Panton dates Elspeth to 1539-1548.
Bryn Gwlad [Name] http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/talan/scottishfem/scottishfemlate.html, "A List of Feminine Personal Names Found in Scottish Records; Part Three: Post-1400 Names", by Talan Gwynek (Brian M. Scott, [email protected]), dates "Elspeth = Elizabeth 1539-48". Also in Black, p. 617, under Elspeth Mukcart, 1545. 8. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
9. Fathir von Trier (Brad Leah)
New name.
9. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
10. Ginevra Rodney (Loch Soillier)
Resubmitted device. Name registered 9/93. Argent ermined vert, a wild ginger flower purpure.
Gawain of Miskbridge
[Device] The flower needs to be drawn to fill its space.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Device] Seamus a' Chnuic Ghuirm March 1996: "Argent, a trillium inverted purpure barbed vert and seeded Or." There is a CD for the ermined field. The trillium is almost identical to the ginger flower. There may be a CD for inverting the flower but I will leave that to the more floristically inclined. This shows why devices need to be quickly fixed and resubmitted.
Bryn Gwlad [Device] There have been no previous registrations of a ginger flower (except for Order of the Ginger Flower, [Palatine] Barony of the Far West, which doesn't count here). The attached documentation will have to be sent to Laurel. Fewer and larger ermine spots would probably help.
RfS VII.4, "Period Flora and Fauna - Flora and fauna that were known in the period and domain of the Society may be registered in armory." Given that Spaniards were in California, this appears possible.
Close to but clear of Seamus a' Chnuic Ghuirm, "Argent, a trillium inverted purpure barbed vert and seeded Or"? 1 CD for the field. 1 CD for the position of the flower (inverted versus normal)? A normal trillium has petals in pall inverted (inverted Y), say the Pict Dict, so a trillium inverted has petals in pall (Y).
10. COLLEGE ACTION: Device: Forwarded to Laurel with documentation of the flower, since this is the first registration. The LoI will mention Seamus a' Chnuic Ghuirm (see Bryn Gwlad) for consideration by the CoA and Laurel.
11. Johann von Sternberg (Falconridge)
New badge. Name registered 12/94. Sable, five compass stars elongated to chief and base in chevron Or.
Gawain of Miskbridge
[Badge] The Disney stars can more simply be blazoned as "elongated palewise."
Da'ud ibn Auda [Badge] This may fall afoul of the ban on arches of stars, first promulgated by Laurel Baldwin of Erebor: "The design, although pretty, is not heraldic. A circle of stars may surround an entire charge or group of charges, but stars surrounding only part of a charge is fantasy art." [Baldwin of Erebor, LoAR 28 September 1984, p. 14] This has since been expanded to arches of any charges standing alone rather than partially surrounding another charge. "It has been ruled that an arch of charges is not period heraldic style. The ruling was originally for an arch of stars: ‘ Stars surrounding only part of a charge is fantasy art.' [BoE, 28 Sept 84] It has since been extended to any charges ‘ in arch'." (Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme, LoAR October 1992, p. 30) Were the submitter to find some period examples of multiple charges placed "in chevron", he might be able to overcome this precedent. Barring such documentation, however, the ruling that this arrangement is not period style remains. That he is using a non-period charge (compass stars are an SCA invention, and are not found even in modern non-SCA armory) only places this at least two steps beyond period practice. (There is also a long-standing precedent against the use of constellations in armory ["She must draw the upper portion of the field properly as mulletty, i.e., more evenly distributed. As drawn now, the design looks more like an attempt to depict a constellation ... which is not permitted as a charge in Society heraldry." (AMoE, LoAR 28 Dec 86, p. 9)], which this arrangement might also arguably be.)
Magnus von Lübeck
[Badge] Shire of Mynydd Seren October 1993: "(Fieldless) Seven mullets conjoined in chevron Or." There is one CD for Fieldless. [Asterisk: Plus 1 CD for mullets of 5 points vs mullets of 8 points.] Kate Wood February of 1975: "Sable, six mullets in bend, three and three, Or." There is a CD for the change in arrangement. I am not so sure about the normal CD between mullet and compass star here since the charges are quite small. [Asterisk: But in another depiction, they might not be as small.] The visual similarity between this badge and these other two devices is troubling.
Bryn Gwlad [Device] Close but clear of Kate Wood (2/75), "Sable, six mullets in bend, three and three, Or". 1 CD for arrangement. 1 CD for a mullet of 5 points versus a mullet of 8 points by precedent. No CD for 5 mullets versus 6, per explicit statement of RfS X.4.f, "Number Changes". 11. COLLEGE ACTION: Badge: Forwarded to Laurel reblazoned as " .. stars elongated palewise in chevron Or." [Asterisk: I'm still troubled by Da'ud's concerns, but the meeting said to send it to Laurel . . .]
12. Jonathan Christian Clare (Steppes)
New change of primary name from Christian Clare reg. 1/90.
Maridonna Benvenuti
[Name] - This formation is fine for the very end of the SCA period.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Withycombe page 180 under Jonathan lists Jonathus from 1213 and Jonathan in general use after the Reformation.
12. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
13 Joseph Alfred Huddlestone (Bryn Gwlad)
New name. New device. Gyronny of four from dexter chief gules and sable, a cross-crosslet argent. [Asterisk: Yes, the top of the field is gules]
Maridonna Benvenuti
[Name] - Although Withycombe shows two examples of double given names, she says that they were rare. I believe the submitter needs one given name and the byname.
Joseph - Withycombe says "The early use of it as a christian name, however, was probably with reference to the patriarch (cf. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob). It occurs once or twice before the Norman conquest as the name of a cleric, and during the Middle Ages it was in regular though infrequent use…" Josephus - 1086, 1203-1321, 1273; Josep, 1273.
Alfred -Withycombe (s.n. Alfred) dates the name to OE Ælfræd, Alfred the Great, 849-901. It was Latinized as Aluredus = Alvredus. Alueredus, 1086; Alured(us), Aluret, Aluerad, Aluer, Eluret, 1086; Alverdus, Aluredus, 1189-1205; Aluredus, Alfridus, 1295.
Huddleston(e) - Ekwall gives the dates as Hudlestun, c. 1030; Hudlestona, Hudelstuna c.1175; Hudelston, 1223…'Hu:del's tun. Hu:del is a derivitive of Hud:a.
Da'ud ibn Auda [Device] RfS VIII.2.b.iii. and iv. require that "Elements evenly divided into two parts, per saltire, or quarterly may use any two tinctures or furs" and "Elements evenly divided into multiple parts of two different tinctures must have good contrast between their parts." As this field is multiply divided and is not either "per saltire, or quarterly", it may not be of two colors (here, gules and sable).
Conflict with Sigenoth the Blissful, Per pale sable and vert, a Latin cross bottony argent. There is a CD for the changes to the field, but nothing for the difference between a cross crosslet and a cross bottony ("A cross crosslet and a cross bottony are only artistic variations of the same charge, and were used interchangeably in period, so no difference may be granted between them." (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR 4/92 p. 22).), nor for changing the length of the lower arm (just as fitching the foot is not worth a CD).
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Withycombe page 180 under Joseph gives it as a name of a cleric before the Norman Conquest and during the Middle Ages it was in regular though infrequent use. Josephus dates from the Domesday Book, 1203, 1273 and Josep from 1273. Withycombe page 14 under Alfred dates Alfridus to 1285. Reaney & Wilson, page 242 under Huddleston has Richard de Hudelesdun from 1200. Bardsley, English Surnames, page 405 under Huddlestone gives William Hudleston from 1587.
[Device] Sigenoth the Blissful January 1998 (via AEthelmearc): "Quarterly sable and vert, a cross bottony argent." for Maison de la Croix Blanche. There is a CD for the field but nothing for cross crosslet vs cross bottony so there is a conflict.
Bryn Gwlad [Name] http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/mari/chesham/chesham-masculine.html, "Masculine Given Names in Chesham, 1538-1600/1", by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (Kathleen M. O'Brien), from parish registers, dates "Joseph" in that spelling to 21 Jan 1539/40.
http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/talan/eng13/eng13m.html, "Men's Given Names from Early 13th Century England", by Talan Gwynek (Brian M. Scott), [email protected], cites the spelling "Alfred" to "between c. 1230 and c. 1247".
[Device] This must be returned for contrast problems. RfS VIII.2.b clause iii says "Elements evenly divided into two parts, per saltire, or quarterly may use any two tinctures or furs", but iv says "Elements evenly divided into multiple parts of two different tinctures must have good contrast between their parts", and "good contrast" is defined above that as "one metal and one color" and other possibilities, none of which include a color and a color.
Close but clear of Antonia Ruccellai (1/98), "Azure, a cross of Toulouse argent". 1 CD for the field. 1 CD for type. The Pict Dict says a cross of Toulouse is "cletchy, voided, and pometty [sic]" (sort of barby, voided, and with little roundels on the points).
Conflict with Sigenoth the Blissful (1/98), "Per pale sable and vert, a Latin cross bottony argent", and (1/98) "Quarterly sable and vert, a cross bottony argent". 1 CD for the field. No CD for Latinizing, no CD for crosslet versus bottony, per Da'ud 2.2 prec. s.v. Cross: "nothing for the difference between bottony and crosslet or for the lengthening of the lower limb of the [Latinate] cross. (LoAR December 1994, p. 13)" In origin, crosses crosslet were simply an artistic variant of cross bottony.
13. COLLEGE ACTION: Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
Device: Returned for conflict with Sigenoth the Blissful and for contrast problems caused by using two colors on a field that is divided of four parts, but not per saltire or quarterly.
14. Lowrens of Ross (Seawinds)
New name.
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Name] Lowrens is "found in this spelling in Barbour's The Bruce" as what? A given name? A byname? A placename? Not even the webpage referenced (there's a typo in the URL; it should be "ht_m_l") makes it entirely clear. [Asterisk: hmmm, I found the URL as typed. The name "Lowrens" is in a list of "Given Names." Are we on the same (Web) page?] It does note that Lowrens is a period spelling of Laurence, but Laurence/Lawrence has been used both as a given name and as a surname.
14. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel. One of the people at the meeting had checked the book itself, and said "Lowrens" was used as a given name.
15. Lucius Hadrianus (Bjornsborg)
New name. New device. Vert, on a pall argent three frogs facing to center vert.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Morlet, Volume II page 71 under Lucianus gives Lucius as a Roman praenomen. Lucianus is dated from 484-507 and from 977. Roman Republican Names by Christopher S. Mackay http://www.ualberta.ca/~csmackay/CLASS_365/Roman.Rep.Names.html gives Lucius as a praenomen.
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] "Heads to center" is the usual SCA blazon convention.
15. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel. Device: Forwarded to Laurel reblazoned as "…three frogs heads to center vert."
16. Reinne du Bois (Steppes)
New device. Name submitted in ILoI0899, LoI1099 [and registered 2/2000]. Sable, a sword bendwise between two suns in splendor, a bordure Or.
16. COLLEGE ACTION:
Device: Forwarded to Laurel.
17. Ricardo Esteban de Salamanca (Bryn Gwlad)
New name. New device, " Per bend sinister sable and Or, a mullet of six points and a raven rising counterchanged."
[Asterisk: This name was mistyped in ILoI as "Estaban." Also, resolution of outstanding questions about the device arrived too late for IloI0400 so the device was published in IloI0400. As penance for the mistakes and delays, I have fasttracked his device one month to join his name in further processing.]
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Melcon, Apellidos Castellano-Leoneses, page 52 under Ricardus gives Fredinandus Ricardi from 1216 and page 186 under Recaredus gives Recaredo Recarediz from 942. Melcon, page 68 under Stephanus gives Domingo Esteban from 1289. The article by Elsbeth Anne Roth gives the name with the spelling Esteban not Estaban. Donald Mathew, Atlas of Medieval Europe, Facts On File Inc., New York, page 70 gives Salamanca on a map from 1031 and page 114 on a map from 1300. Melcon, page 235 has Salamanca as a province with people dated from 1086, 1186, 1198 1206 and 1286. Page 244 also lists it as a province with people dated to 1142, 1229, 1245, and 1299.
Bryn Gwlad [Name] At least we found Ricart, ca. 1100 C.E. http://libro.uca.edu/vic/vic.htm, part of "The Library of Iberian esources Online", in the book The Diocese of Vic: Tradition and Regeneration in Medieval Catalonia, by Paul Freedman. Chapter 2, at .../vic/dv2.htm, has "The bull issued by Urban II [d. 1099] ... assumed that a unified, reformed chapter was operating under the guidance of a prior (the sacristan Ricart) [32]", and the footnote is "32. ACV, c. 9, Ep. II, 95 (1099) ..."
http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/juliana/isabella/locative.html, "Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century" by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith, [email protected]), is drawn from "the account books of Isabel of Castilla". She dates "de Salamanca" to the late 15th C, apparently in that spelling.
17. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel.
18. Robert Moondragon (Bryn Gwlad)
New name, new device. Azure, on saltire between 4 bears rampant Or, another azure.
18. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel.
19. Sara Penrose (Steppes)
Resubmitted device. Name registered 4/99. Or, a rose proper within an orle sable.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Device] Very similar to Mildred of Montrose August 1998: "Per chevron argent and Or, in base a rose slipped and leaved proper, an orle sable." This should be clear with a CD for the field and one for moving the rose to base.
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] This is a "rose inverted" (an exact copy of the Pict Dict rose, upside down).
19. COLLEGE ACTION:
Device: Forwarded to Laurel.
20. Tatiana Elzbieta Laski of Krakow (Steppes)
New name, new device. Blue & white diamond striped field white diamond, 3 cattails. [Asterisk: The heads & stems of the cattails are brown, the leaves are green. They are on the white diamond, the next stripe is blue & the stripes alternate blue & white to the edge of the field. This submission arrived with no consulting herald listed, in a packet with work from several consulting heralds, from a branch in which I believe the office of herald is in transit. Under the circumstances, the submitter has evidently found it impossible to consult with a herald & has "use(d) plain English if you don't know how to blazon" as suggested on the form. I was already short of time when I discovered the problem, so the blazon is left to the commenter as an exercise.]
Gawain of Miskbridge
[Name] If she really wants changes to make it more authentic, change the English "of Krakow" to "z Krako'w" or "Krako'wska". See Hoffman, Our Polish Surnames, pp. 70, 60, & 20. By the way, "o" and "o' " are considered separate letters in Polish. I can find the third name spelled only as "Laski" [Retiarius: It's a crossed L.] (ibid., p. 199). Again, those are separate letters. Indeed, the crossed "L" is pronounced more like an English "w" (ibid.,, p. 11). Wonder if she knows it means "weasel"?
[Device] Can't help much with the blazon: "Quarterly bendy sinister and bendy argent and azure, on a lozenge argent 3 cattails slipped proper"? It's not really heraldic. Has she seen what real Polish heraldry looks like?
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Name] Does she have any evidence at all for the use of double given names in Polish? If what she really wants is an authentic 14th Century Polish name, I'm willing to bet we need to drop one of the given names, and do a lot of changes to "of Krakow" to make it authentic.
[Device] Unfortunately (or maybe not), I can think of no way to blazon the alternating blue and white bands around the lozenge. On the other hand, it may not matter an awful lot, since I believe this is in conflict with Kelson de la Croix, Quarterly erminois and counter-erminois, on a lozenge argent a sprig of heather bendwise proper. There is a CD for the field, but I suspect there is not the "substantial difference" required by X.4.j.ii. between cattails proper and a sprig of heather proper for a CD on the basis of type alone, nor, given the splay of the cattails, do I think that orientation combined with type is sufficient to warrant the grant of a CD. Basically, what we have is two pieces of armory consisting of a field and a white lozenge charged with something mostly green and leafy of not entirely determinable orientation.
Magnus von Lübeck [Name] This name appears more Russian than Polish so I will approach it from that language. From A Dictionary of Period Russian Names by Paul Wickenden of Thanet at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/paul/. Tat'iana (f)- "to designate." Tat'iana, martyr. 1356. [Lev 3] Vars: Tatiana (martyr). Died in 225. [Buk 31]. So Tatiana should be fine. Alzhbeta (f) -- Alzhbeta. 1211. [Mor 2] Vars: Alzbeta (daughter of Polish king Kazimir). 1309. [Khr 244] Alzhita. 1535. [Zap 410] Elzbeta (daughter of Andrei II). 1235. [Khr 243] The spelling Elzbeta is the closest to the submitted name. Note the overlap between Russian and Polish names here. I suspect Laski is a modern spelling of a Polish name. There is a Russian masculine name Lasko (m) -- Lasko. 1228. [Mor 110] that could be formed into the patronymic usually found in Slavic bynames. The female patronymic should be Laskeva but it can take other forms. Donald Mathew, Atlas of Medieval Europe, Facts On File Inc, New York, page 190 has Krakow on a map from 1470. The city in the form "of Krakow" can be used in an SCA name. Krakovich would probably be a more period form for a toponymic. Double given names also seem to occur in Russian. Using the Russian form, Tatiana Elzbeta Laskeva of Krakow should be registerable with any needed spelling fixes left to Laurel. If the submitter really wants a name in Polish form, she should be warned that the good sources are all written in Polish. Unless you can read that language very well research is difficult (and well beyond my knowledge).
[Device] Asterisk has rather unique ideas about exercise. I suspect it is unblazonable but try "Per fess chevronny and chevronny inverted azure and argent, on a lozenge argent fimbriated azure three cattails proper." It also appears to violate our rules on modern style. Laurel has returned devices with charges on fimbriated lozenges. LoAR September 1999 Ansteorra Returns, Bice di Pietro. Device. Gules, a cross Or, overall on a lozenge sable fimbriated an estoile all within a bordure Or. "This device is returned for violating rule XI.4: Arms of Pretense. The fimbriation makes the lozenge appear to be charged with a bordure." There are more problems but this just needs some reworking.
Bryn Gwlad [Name] www.panix.com/~mittle/names/predslava/bbl/women.html, "Russian Personal Names: Name Frequency in the Novgorod Birch-Bark Letters", by Predslava Vydrina (Masha Gedilaghine Holl) -- granted, it's Russian -- dates "Tatiana" to the XIVth C. and "Elizaveta" to the XIIth C.
The 10/95 LoAR, West acc., Erzs{e'}beta Magdal{e'}na, notes "Polish Elzbieta (with a dot over the z)". The 2/96 LoAR, Caid acc., Ludwiga Yagello ze Smocza Jamy, "we lack evidence of period Polish use of either double given names or preposed nicknames [Czarny]; neither would be particularly surprising, but some evidence, at least, is required". 7/97, East acc., Andreas Kalisiensis, has "Submitted as Andreas of Kalisz, the submitter has agreed to an entirely Polish form." 6/98 LoAR, Artemisia ret., Zuzanne od Suwalki: "Far more common [locatives] are the adjectival forms (ending in -ski/-ska [masc/fem]) One grammatically correct form of the name would be 'z Sulwakl'. However, this sounds odd and would probably be better, as Hoffman (79) notes, as Suwalski (fem Suwalska) ..." 8/99 LoAR, Atenveldt acc., Aleksander of Krakow: "if he wants a fully Polish name, he should consider Aleksander Krakowczik, where Krakowczik is a byname dated to 1584 meaning 'Man from Krakow'". Ibid, West acc., Ilijana Krakowska was registered without comment.
So I gather that "Tatiana [or El{z.}bieta] Laski Krakowska" is plausible, modulo the exact ending on the locative. However, if Laski is a byname, it has to agree in gender and be feminized as well. If she prefers a preposition form ("z", "ze" if followed by a consonant cluster, takes the genitive), please see the fuller text of Ludwiga and Zuzanne cited above. If she wants authenticity, it might be best to just return it and point her at S. Gabriel. This also would allow her to decide which forename is most important. [Device] We could think of no way to blazon it. It can't be lozenges on lozenges, because that would be returned for too many layers (VIII.1.c.ii), and the lozenges would be "more than thruout" (extending past the edges of the shield). It can't be within mascles, because they can't be "thruout and then some". It's can't be quarterly with 1 and 4 bendy sinister and 2 and 3 bendy (and a charged lozenge in the middle), because in such a blazon there's no way to guarantee that the ends of the bendy and the ends of the bendy sinister would line up. We suggest return.
20. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel as "Tatiana Leski Krakowska" with a request for special attention from Walraven (who specializes in Polish names for the Academy of St. Gabriel and for the CoA.)
Device: Returned for conflict with Kelson de la Croix (see Da'ud) and the unblazonable field.
21. Timothy of Glastinbury (Elfsea)
New name. New device. Azure billety argent.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Withycombe page 282 under Timothy states it did not come into use until after the Reformation so it is a late period given name. Ekwall, The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place-names, page 198 under Glastonbury lists Glaestingeberia from the Domesday Book. The city was probably spelled with "ton" by late period but the variant should be acceptable. [Asterisk: We could not document the "ton" spelling to period.]
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] Error in desired gender -- should be male. (Daniel refuses to comment.)
[Device] Nice device! Reblazon as "ten billets". That's the expected regular arrangement for 10, with no indication of semyness (no partial charges cut by the edge of the shield, which is one artistic variant; no irregular strewing). 21. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel as blazoned. Submitter wants "billety", not the regular arrangement of 10 as shown. The forms will be corrected. (That's what happens when the heraldic artist draws the armory after the submitter has left the consultation / submission table.)
22. Trahern ap Seru (Eldern Hills)
New name. New device. Gules, a point azure, rising from base a sea dragon Or, orbed gules, a chief embattled Or.
Gawain of Miskbridge
[Device] Blazon fu: "Gules, a chief embattled Or and a point azure surmounted by a sea dragon Or issuant from base." Let's see, first the client needs to show some examples of colored points on colored fields; then he needs to show examples of this sort of "semi-issuant" arrangement. If you blazon the dragon as "overall" it will have to be redrawn to overlap the chief as well as the point. Orbing is a detail we don't blazon, especially where the detail is in its default tincture as it is here. "Rising" has a specific meaning, which applies only to birds. This is probably the first example I've seen of an embattled line that appears to be drawn too deep.
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Device] The sea-dragon appears more to be issuant from base than it does to be "rising" from it. ("Rising" is a specific bird posture; the monster here is in the default "erect" posture.) "With regard to small details on animals, such as claws and teeth, these really shouldn't clutter up the blazon unless really necessary. ... Rather than clutter up the blazon it is much better to just use the space for notes to the scribe or artist on the picture sheet to detail just how to color the small details. Large details, such as a horse's mane, should be described in the blazon." (Wilhelm von Schl{u"}ssel, Cover Letter 18 March 1980, p. 1) We should drop "orbed" here, especially since it is the expected default. But the real problems with this submission are that: (1) the point (a charge, not a field division) is color on color; and (2) the device has a charge (the sea-dragon) overlying a peripheral charge (the base or point), which has long been disallowed. This ban was restated recently by the current Laurel: "We do not register charges that overlap peripheral ordinaries." (Elsbeth Ann Roth, LoAR November 1999, p. 15)
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Gruffudd, Welsh Personal Names, page 90 under Trahaearn dates the name to 1081 and the 14th century. Morgan, Welsh Surnames, page 198 under Trahaearn gives Trahern Goz and Thomas Trehern from 1547. Morlet, Les Noms de Personne sur le Territoire de L'Ancienne Gaule du VI au XII Siecle, Volume I, page 195 under Sar- Sero from 820, Serra from 941, Serulfus from the 7th century. This may not help for a Welsh name but it is the only reference I could find.
[Device] Blazon as "Gules, a sea dragon Or issuant from base, a base azure and a chief embattled Or."
Bryn Gwlad [Name] We cannot locate any of the sources listed. I believe that there's a Laurel rulings that the URL must accompany docs or there must be publishing info, and I'm pretty certain anything without a URL will be returned, but I can't find such a ruling, unless it's "the entire page(s) of documentation must be sent with the Laurel package, along with information about the site itself" (April 1998 LoAR cover letter).
[Device] The blazon as given has an azure base on a gules field, which would be cause for a color-on-color return. Further, that "point" would be too high to be a proper base. It can be reblazoned "Per fess Or and azure, a fess embattled gules, ...". We advocate return for non-period style. There can be charges issuant from base, but we don't recall seeing them overall on one side but not the other. Further, we expect a thing issuant from base to be a demi-thing, not an animate creature missing a chunk in the middle of its tail.
In other news, it's a "base", not a "point". The dags of the embattling are little long, but that's not cause for return. "Orbed" is a detail that we don't bother to blazon.
22. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Returned for inadequate documentation. The CoH was able to document "Trahaearn" but could find nothing very close to "Seru," and without publication information could not verify the submitted documentation. Those at the meeting suggested that the submitter contact Harpy Herald for help.
Device: Returned for multiple problems, primarily that the base violates the Rule of Tincture, and the sea- dragon overlaps a peripheral charge (the base) which has long been disallowed. Note also that we had serious reservations about the "semi-issuant" position of the sea-dragon and the depth of the embattlements. Reblazoned "Gules, a chief embattled Or and a point azure surmounted by a sea dragon Or issuant from base." ("Orbing" is a detail that we rarely blazon, particularly when it is in the default tincture as it is here.)