Session 1 with Philip Kolvin QC
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Appendix 1 London Assembly Plenary Meeting: Thursday 7 June 2018 Transcript of Item 4 - London’s Night Time Economy, Question and Answer Session Tony Arbour AM (Chairman): Now we go on to the main business of today, which is to ask questions of our guests about London’s night time economy. The question-and-answer session will be divided into two parts. The Assembly will ask questions of Philip Kolvin QC, former Chair of the Night Time Commission, in the first part of the session. In the second part of the session, the Assembly will ask questions of Kate Nicholls, newly appointed Chair of the Night Time Commission, and Amy Lamé, Night Czar. Each session will start off with a leadoff question from me as Chairman. Up to two hours has been allowed for the overall session. Welcome, Mr Kolvin. Philip Kolvin QC (Former Chair of the Night Time Commission): Thank you, Chairman. Tony Arbour AM (Chairman): You can make a statement and then I will give you the leadoff question. Philip Kolvin QC (Former Chair of the Night Time Commission): It is very kind of you to give me that latitude, Chairman, but I really am here just to answer questions by the Assembly Members and give them such assistance as I am able to give. I am not here with any agenda to push or any line to run. I am just laying myself open to questions from anyone who wants to ask them. Tony Arbour AM (Chairman): Very brave. The leadoff question is this: what is your assessment of the Night Time Commission based on your tenure as Chair? Philip Kolvin QC (Former Chair of the Night Time Commission): Chairman, from its first meeting in mid-October 2017 until the end of my tenure three months later, the Commission, which comprises 26 expert individuals from across the public, private and third sector, had made excellent progress and laid down firm foundations for its future work. It was meeting every two months, with a Steering Group meeting in the off month to plan the next Commission meeting. It was supported by a Data and Research Group drawn from the Commission, the Greater London Authority’s (GLA) Intelligence Unit, and exterior experts, whose activities included the definition and measurement of the night time economy in London and the development of a toolkit to help each borough to measure and track its own night time economies. It had commissioned and directed a consultation exercise of several hundred London organisations, a separate consultation of a representative sample of London citizens, and a third consultation open to everyone through Talk London, together with focus groups to inform the consultation exercise. Now, running alongside this was the Night Time Economy Borough Champions Network, which comprised senior members and officers of all the London boroughs, which had met quarterly since March [2017] to share good practice across London, to learn about best practice from within London and elsewhere, including internationally, and to feed ideas up to the Commission and to act as a sounding board for the Commission. The plan was to produce an independent report to the Mayor by July 2018 comprising three elements. Element one was advice as to the sustainable development of London’s night time economy, building on the Mayor’s vision for the night time economy [From Good Night to Great Night: A Vision for London As A 24-Hour City, 2017], of which I was the principal author, and reconciling the growth agenda with the protection agenda. Second was a data report, including analysis of the size and composition of the night time economy; and third was a good practice guide for the boroughs, incorporating best practice from London and internationally in the management of the night time economy, the data toolkit that I have just mentioned, and also best practice in the use of data to measure both the night time economy and, importantly, its externalities. The Commission had laid the foundation to complete that work according to that plan in July 2018. Tony Arbour AM (Chairman): Assembly Member Dismore? Andrew Dismore AM: Thank you, Chairman. You have told us what you achieved in your time as Chair. The Mayor appointed you in January 2017 and you resigned in January 2018. Philip Kolvin QC (Former Chair of the Night Time Commission): Yes. Andrew Dismore AM: Did you jump or were you pushed? Philip Kolvin QC (Former Chair of the Night Time Commission): I did not actually resign, Assembly Member Dismore, to be absolutely accurate. I simply did not seek any extension or renewal of my 12-month contract, which was a quarter fulltime equivalent contract. I did not seek an extension. The circumstances were that there were some concerns about the Night Time Commission, which I laid out in my resignation letter to the Mayor in January of this year [2018]. The concerns, in very brief, were the independence of the Night Time Commission; secondly, its administrative support; and thirdly, the public profiling of the Commission’s work. That is set out in great detail in that letter. I am not sure it is helpful to get into the detail, but I set those out as very clear concerns which were prerequisites for my continuation as Chair. I also said, if those concerns could be satisfied, I was very content to work for free. I was very passionate about the work. Unfortunately, those concerns could not be resolved and were not resolved, and so the logical next step was for me to leave the job, which I have to say I enjoyed very much. Andrew Dismore AM: We have seen you in your other capacities representing Uber drivers, a lap-dancing club in Sheffield and an expensive bar in York. You are also patron and past Chairman of the Institute of Licensing and you are on the board of the Night Time Industries Association. Whilst technically these other roles may not be a formal conflict of interest, they do raise eyebrows for some people. Was this a factor in you stepping down? Philip Kolvin QC (Former Chair of the Night Time Commission): Absolutely not at all, no. Can I contextualise this? I am a barrister and barristers are subject to something called the ‘Cab Rank Rule’. That means that whoever comes and seeks my services, I am obliged to render those services. In that guise, for example, you raised the question of lap-dancing. The legislation which covers lap-dancing in this country is the product of pro bono campaigning work that I did with feminist organisations to give local authorities greater control over whether and where lap-dancing clubs should be situated. The fact that I act for this party or that party, I hope, is part of the attributes which I brought to the job. My clients comprise, for example, the Gambling Commission, the Security Industry Authority (SIA) and the Metropolitan Police [Service] (MPS). It is a question of who picks up the phone and seeks to secure my services. However, certainly it did not give rise in my mind - and I do not think in the Mayor’s mind - to any conflict. My job at the GLA was to try to see all sides and to ensure that Londoners as a whole were able to fashion and formulate the future development of London’s night time economy. It was a role I took very seriously. I most certainly did not bring in any agenda on the part of any party whom I represent professionally. Andrew Dismore AM: As I said, they do raise eyebrows. At last July’s [2017] [London Assembly] Economy Committee, I suggested to you that “it is important that residents are properly represented, not just consulted, on the Commission”. You said, “I will take that as a takeaway from this meeting and I will take away your views and discuss it with colleagues”. Did you do so and with what outcome? Philip Kolvin QC (Former Chair of the Night Time Commission): I did do so, and the outcome was that we considered -- it was a very large Commission with 26 members, which I think you would agree is larger than most commissions which sit in in this country. That was so as to get a great diversity of views across the public, private and third sectors. They included, for example, the Chair of Licensing at Westminster City Council, who every day listens to the concerns of residents. They included Jan Hart, who is the Head of Public Protection at the London Borough of Islington and whose concerns are the protection of residents. They included Jo Negrini, Chief Executive of the London Borough of Croydon, who was there to advance the agenda for residents. They included Roy Smith of the MPS. They included Hannah Wadey [Chief Executive, Safer Business Network] of community safety. All of these people brought in perspectives from all the different aspects of public protection. Had we had a resident or a residents’ association, where would it end? Would we have to have one from every borough? Would we have to have one from inner London and outer London and so on and so forth? Instead, we considered the best way of doing this was to consult Londoners as a whole while having a really diverse group within the Night Time Commission itself. We did give that very serious consideration, Assembly Member Dismore, and I am sorry if our decision disappointed you. Andrew Dismore AM: It is not a question of whether it disappointed me. It is a question of whether it disappoints residents who are affected by the night time economy.