1198 1198COUNCIL.] ltegislative Council. (vi) What were the costs per head frm station to disposal? Friday, 8th October, 1948. (vii) What is the total amount of money paid by the Government in facilitating the PAGE transport of cattle from the North-West Auditor General's report ...... 1198 during the past 18 months? question,: Cattle, as to drt'~frm oth-West .... 198 et. bus 19 The CHIEF SECRETARY replied: ... liesluaios19 Mootor ae s to aliT (i) 2,150 head. Mon Railway gg unilforulyastPrt (ii) Onl "Moola Boola" 20 head; unable PidnerokenHill in...... 119% Transrailway continuation, as to alternative to state losses on others. routes, Spencer's Brook to Fremantle.....1203 (iii) 930 head. Resolution : State forusts, to revok, dedication .... 1207 Bills: IncrssofRent(WaReltesttos) Act Amend. (iv) In 1942-47 10s. per head. 1943- mat, Assembly's message...... 1207,.1225 Assembly's request lbr conference.....1237 not yet sold. Conference manager.' report ... ..1287 Assembly's further message ...... 1237 (v) So far as is known-20 head. Legislative Council (War Time) Electoral, an. 1207 (vi) In 1942-f3 Os. 5d. per head. Assembly's message ...... 1225 request for confree...... 1230 (vii) The Government was not involved Con~ference"Assml managers' report .. ... 1237 Assembly's further message ...... 1237 in any expense with the transport of the Motor Vehicle (Third Party Insuance R .. 1207 Assembly's cessage ...... 1227 cattle. companies 3...... 1207 Assembly's message...... 1234 'WOOL. Assembly's further message...... 1238 Education Act Amendment, 23.. Corn...... 1208 As to Railway Freight Paid by Remalning stages...... 1223 Appropriation, 2R...... 1223 Commonwealth. Remaining stages...... 1225 Lon, £350.000, 2a...... 1227 Hon. G. W. MILES asked the Chief Sec- Emainin stag...... 1232 Traffic Act Amendment Act, 1941, Amendment, retary: 2&, remaining stages...... 1232 was paid or payable by Complimentary remrarks...... 13 (i) What amount Adjournment, Special...... 1240 the Commonwealth Government to the Rail- way Department in respect of wool from the outer Albany zone railed to Fremantle- The PRESIDENT took the Chair at 4.30 (a) during the 12 months ended 30th p.m., and read prayers. June, 1942; (b) during the 12 months ended 30th AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT. June, 1943? The PRESIDENT: I have received from (ii) What amount was paid or payable the Auditor General a copy of his report on by the Commonwealth Government to the the Treasurer's statement of the Public Railway Department in respect of wool ap- Accounts for the financial year ended the praised at Albany, and subsequently, under 30th, June, 1943. It will be laid on the instructions from the Central Wool Commit- Table of the House. tee, railed to Fremantle for shipment or treatment- QUESTIONS (4). (a) during the year ended 30th June, CATTLE. 1942; As to Drafts from North-Ws at. (b) during the year ended 30th June, Hon. C. F. BAXTER asked the Chief 1943? Secretary: The CHIEF SECRETARY replied: (i) What is the number of cattle which (i) (a) £911; (b) £3,619. have been brought over the Canning stock (ii) (a) £2,33Z;; (b) £C3,406. route during the past 18 months? (ii) What were the mortality losses on KOJONUP ROAD BUS SERVICE. such cattle? As to Revenue, Expenditure, etc. (iii) What number of cattle has been Hon. H. L. ROCHE asked the Chief Sec- despatched from Moola Boola Station during retary: the past 18 months? On the Kojonup Road Bus Service to the (iv) What was the average price per head 30th June, for the years 1942 and 1943, when disposed of? respectively- (v) What was the number lost by mor- (i) What were the gross proceeds re- talityI ceivedl [8 Ocroasa, 1943.]119 1199?

(ii) What were the costs of- to another place for its concurrence. I am (a) general running; sure that members of this Parliament must (b) maintenance; have been a good deal disappointed when (e) repairs? they read in "The West Australian" of the (iii) What was the net profit on the ser- 29th September a telegram from Canberra vice for each of those yearsI as follows:- (iv) How many passengers were carried The Federal Government does not intend at in each year? present to proceed with the unification of the railway gauge between Port Pinie and Broken The CHIEF SECRETARY replied: Hill. The P rime Minister (Mr. Curtin) said (i) Gross proceeds, from 27/11/1941 tonight that the official Army view was that (date of inception) to 30/6/1942, £3,001; there were other necessary works to be car- 1942-43, £6,587. ried out occupying a higher priority. (ii) Costs were, from 27/11/1941 (date of Of course1 it would not be our wish to chal- inception) to 30/6/1942-(a) General run- lenge a statement made on the authority of ning, £.603; 1942,43, £1,770; (b) and (e) military opinion, hut it is very disappoint- Maintenance and repairs, £C351; 1942-43, ing, particularly in view of the fact that our £55; (d) Interest and depreciation, £214; hopes were built up by statements made by 1942-43, £435. the Prime 'Minister at the opening of his (iii) Net profit, from 27/11/1941 (date of election campaign. In his policy speech, he inception) to 30/6/1942, £1,833; 1942-43, said that the building of this railway line £3,827. wvas in the forefront of the Government's (iv) Number of passengers carried, from programme. Later, in some of his public 27/11/1941 (date of inception) to 30/6/1942, utterances, he said it was the intention of 3,573; 1942-43, 7,735. the Gov-ernmcnt to proceed with this pro- ject in spite of opposition from any of the MOTOR TRAFFIC. States. Those may not have' been his exact As to Tail Light Regulations. words, but that was the general tenor of Hon. A. THOMSON asked the Chief Sec- his remarks. So the hopes of those of us who have been retary: advocating this plan were buoyed up and it is with great regret that we find that a In view of the shortage of and difficulty project which looked like coming into being or their component in securing batteries has again been relegated to the background. parts for cams and trucks, will the Govern- Some members of this Chamber have been ment consider cancelling the traffic regula- keen advocates of this railway extension. tions which insist on tail lights burning while From timeP to time Mr. Miles has referred cams are parked, thus conserving the life of to it, and I spoke about it during the truck and ear batteries? Address- in-re ply debate at the beginning of The CHIEF SECRETARY replied: last session. It is hardly necessary to re- No. It would be toe dangerous. mind the House that this question came to the forefront, from a defence point of view, MOTION-RAILWAY GAUGE UNIFOR- back in 1910 when the late Lord Kitchener MITY. advocated the provision of a uniform railway As to Port Prie-Broken Bill Line. gauge as part of Australia's defence pro- RON. J. A. DIMMITT (Metropolitan- gramme. Later in 1921, the then Inspector Suburban) [I4371 - I move- General of the Commonwealth Military Forces stated that the work was an urgent That this House regrets that the Common- wealth Government does not intend at present necessity. In 1923 that high militai-y auth- to proceed with the unification of the railway ority again expressed the opinion that it gauge between Port Pinie and Broken Hill, as was a matter of extreme importance that the announced in "The West Australian" of the 29th September, and urges that the priority construction of the line should be undertaken ranking of this work be reconsidered; and that without delay. We can cast our minds back this motion be sent to the Legislative Assembly to January twelve months to appreciate that with a request for its concurrence. Western Australia wvs in dire peril. Had I hope that the motion will meet with the the Japanese, flushed with their success, approval of this House and that it will he come down from Java and Malaya. to this dealt with expeditiously so that it may go State the steel road, with its broken gauges, 1200 (COUNCIL.] of the railway would not have been able to carry sufficient advocated the unification of lines for interior and munitions in quantity and time gauges and the building troops That was the scheme that have enabled the defence of this padt of communication. to Commonwealth the Commonwealth to be undertaken. I had myself put up to the Lord Kitchener also pointed Thus the defence aspect of this question Government. take six months to trans- appreciated by all of us. We realise its out that it would is corps from one side of Aus- importance, which has been stressed by the port an army tralia to thq other. I think it will serve a Kitchener and other high military late Lord good purpose if this House carries the officers. But it has anl economic aspect as motion and the Legislative Assembly agrees That is borne out by the concluding well. to it. It will strengthen the hands of the of the Prime Mdinisters published paragraph Government in any approach it may make to which I referred earlier in my s~tatement to the Commonwealth to urge it to construct remarks. The Prime Minister said- Hill-Port Pinie line as a first that the gauge should be the Broken it was intended we can advocate the other lines the same as that in New South Walea-4ft. step. Then S%in.-to enable quicker transportation of being dealt with subsequently. This is not metals from Port Pirie as well as stepping up an opportune time to speak at length in transport of essential goods across the con- whole-heartedly supporting the motion, but tinent. I hope the Assembly will be in agreement For these reasons I desire a resolution sent with it. to the Commonwealth Government express- ing regret that this project has again been HON. 3. CORNjELL (South): I take postponed and urging the Commonwealth to second place to none in advocacy of the reconsider the possibility of stepping up the provision of a uniform railwvay gauge for priority of the work. Australia. One of the greatest blots on the statesmen of Australia of past days was HON. G. W. 20ULES (North): I have their action in allowing varying railway very much pleasure in seconding the motion, gauges to be used in various parts of Aus- has placed and I am glad that Mr. Dimmitt tralia. I have been in other parts of the the matter before the House. It is too late British Dominions and in other countries to enter upon a lengthy discussion on the where railway communication has been a subject, but for over 25 years I have been matter of great importance. I have in mind mdvocating the unification of railway gauges one country where the people fought one the throughout Australia. In 1920 when another for a long time. I refer to South Commonwealth Parliament was sitting in Africa where Hoer fought Briton and Por- Melbourne I got in touch with the late Mr. tuguese fought Hoer. Even there they decided Gregory, M.H.R., and secured his assistance to build railways with the one gauge. That in a scheme for the unifying of the railway applies throughout Europe except with re- systems with the object of building up the gard to Russia. That also applies in the The resources and interests of Australia. United States of America despite the exist- object was to build the iron roil-road across ence of 48 States. parts. In those Australia and to various There is, however, a phase of this prob- "Age" had criticised days the Melbourne lem that deserves more attention. We may were advocating the scheme those of us who rush in and carry the motion urging the despatched to the editor and in a telegram I Prime Minister to reconsider the decision Australian"' I said that, not- of "The West not to go on with the alteration of the gauge withstanding the narrow views of the "Age,!" of the line between Broken Hill and Port most satisfied with our reception in we were Pinie. The fact is that there is no power I said that the late Lord Kiteh- Melbourne. under the Commonwealth Conat~itution to ener's report, which was published in 1910,1 permit the Commonwealth to build a rail- pigeon-holed, hat that I had got had been way through a State. Mr. Gregory to dig it out. In that report Lord Kitchener said that Hon. G. W. Miles: That is why we should the railway system of Australia was a men- give the Commonwealth more power. ace to the nation, and rather than be useful Hon. J. CORNELL: Quite so. to the Commonwealth in time of war, it he done mnight be of assistance to any enemy that Hon. J. A. flinmitt: It could had temporary command of the sea. He under a National Security Regulation. (8 Oaousa, 1943.] 101201

Hon. 3. CORNELL: But we must appre- Commonwealth. I am glad that Mr. Dimmitt ciate one particular aspect. For instanco, has moved the motion. the Commonwealth was advised that under its defence powers it had the right during HON. E. X. HEENAN (North-East):- I the currency of the war to enact uniform may strike a discordant note when I say legislation, but that, at the end of the war, that I shall not support the motion. What when those defence powers lapsed, we would is asserted about everybody being agreed revert to the old order of things1 unless upon the necessity for the work I endorser. there was a reciprocal arrangement in this but I am one who believes that for the next respect or the necessary amendment of the year or two or the next three years the para- Commonwealth Constitution made. Exactly mount task of Australia is to get through the same thing applies here. The Common- with this war in which we are involved. The wealth Government could do it under the undertaking connected with the trans-Aus- National Security Regulations. It might tralian railway will be a tremendous one,. have built a railway, but after the National and the obvious conclusion is that if the work Security Regulations lapsed the railway is carried out now it will detract front would not belong to the Commonwealth but an effort which otherwise we would con- would revert to the States of South Austra- centrate on making--the most vital job) lia and New South Wales. I have heard the with which we are confronted in this genera- Prime Minister declare that he stands for tion, and that is, to win security and to de- the unification of the railway systems of feat the terrible foes with whom we are Australia. I also remember hearing him engaged in a life-and-death struggle. I ap- say he saw the necessity for that. It could preciate Mr. Dimmitt's point of view. only be done by arrangement. I under- I realise the difficulties which the exist- stand that the States of Victoria and South ing railway situation involves. I travel on Australia are against it. The cormorant the Perthi-Kalgoorlie train of ten enough to State of the Commonwealth, New South appreciate the discomfdorts involved, but I Wale;, supports the proposal because it think there is a point of view in Australia means a lot of gain to that State and a great that everything is all right, and that wve should have at once all the things we want. deal of loss to Victoria and South Australia. We have to face up to the situation of how Some people are inclined to believe that we are out of the wood as regards the war. the construction of the railways can be Others believe that Germany is beaten and brought about. Japan is vanquished; but Japan has hardly HON. L. B. BOLTON (Mfetropolitan) : I been touched yet, and Germany still has the desire briefly to support Mr. IDimmitt's mo- strongest army in Europe. tion. The war has taught us the necessity Hon. J. Cornell: Germany is still the for a uniform railway system throughout same old Fritz!I the Commonwealth. It is no Use our saying Hon. E. M. HEENAN: I think it behoves that the work should have been done years Parliaments of Australia to steady up that ago. We are all agreed on that point, but point of view;j and I believe that a motion let uts endeavour to have the work done now, such as this, because it exemplifies the and as speedily as possible. It is a deplor- attitude of. the general public that tfiings able thing that a trip from Perth to Sydney are all right and that we cant keep on be- entails a passenger riding on no less than lieving the war is over and that good times six different trains and railway gauges. If should be available to all of us, is to be the war has taught us nothing else, it has deprecated. By carrying it we might merely taught us that it would have been of great give some help to the optimistic, happy and ibenefit to Australia in the transport of free attitude that is obviously spreading to- troops had we had a uniform gauge. The day. We should do something to counteract other point I want to make is that it is the it. duty of this Parliament and of every West- ern Australian citizen continually to do THE CHIEr SECRETARY: There can their best to secure the broadening of the be no doubt that the uniform railway gauge gauge from Kalgoorlie to Perth. That from here to New South Wales would be of affects us materially. Millions of pounds tremendous advantage to Western Australia. can be found for other things, and this is It would take two or three days off the time one of the most necessary things in the that is now required to travel between Perth 1202 1202COUNCIL] and Sydney. We could save a great deal of the public generally in Western Australia. the time and expense involved today by I am advised that the decision of the Corn- establishing uniformity of gauge between mon wealth Government in this matter has here and New South Wales. Theme can be been given on the advice of the Chief of no doubt that this would be of great bene- Staff of the Army that the strategical posi- fit from a business point of view. But when tion is such that we aced not worry for the we have the Chief of Staff of the Army ad- time being concerning this great work, which vising our Prime Minister that there are! wouldi cost many millions *of money, and other major defence works for us to con- would require the services of thousands of struct of more importance than the uniform men and tremendous quantities of material. gauge between New South Wales and West- If those materials and that manpower are ern Australia, I suggest it is not for us to required for other wvorks further away from challenge that point of view. Western Anstralia and nearer the scene of Hon. J. A. Dimmitt: There is hardly a operations in which various arms of our challenge. The motion is an expression of Forces ar- engaged, then we. ought to rest regret. content. The CHIEF SECRETARY: It is some- Hon. J. Cornell: A ease could he referred thing more than an expression of regret. to the High Court as to whether or not this Moreover, the mover admitted in his few eampo in as a defence provision. remarks that it is not for us to challenge The CHIEF SECRETARY: I am euro the opinion of the military experts. I agree that it a uniform railway gauge between with him on that point; and if we do agree here an(] New South Wales were essential on it, what value to this House or this Par- to our war effort ways and means would be liament would it he to put forward a request found to overcome the ditficulty. We must to the Commonwealth that it should seri- not forget that there is another aspect to be ously consider the priority of this work'! On considered. We might he well satisfied to several occasions since the war broke out, agitate for a uniform railw,.ay gauge between this matter has been considered by the Conm- here and eastern Australia, but there are monwealth authorities, and on each occasion one or two other States that are notL only the decision has been that there is other interested but vry much concerned. I feel and more important wvork to be considered sure that when the timie arrives for the Corn- at the present time. If that was the posi- mnonweaith Government to commence this tion two years ago, and it still is the posi- particuilar work it will he necessary to have tion, it seemns to me that there should he some~ arrangement with the other State- a source of satisfaction in that fact from the ion. .J. Cornell: Of CoLurse it will. point of view of this State. Only a short Thei CHIEF SECRETARY: - that will while ago the prospect looked particularly at least give to them some satisfaction from black for Western Australia. If, as the the economic point of view. There was a Prime Minister says, the strategic position note in Mr. Dimmitt's remarks which I did today is such that there are other works of not like. I thought I could read into them far more importance on the other side of the suggestion that the Prime Minister did Australia that must be gone on with, that not seenm sincere in%his announcement at can only mean one thing so far as we are the tinie of the election campaign that the concerned, namely, that the danger is not so uniform question was a very fine one and great as it was. Like Mr. Heenan, I wish 'would receive early attention. Those were to utter a word of warning. not Mir. Dimmitt's words but very close to It appears that there is a spirit of com- them. I1 think our Prime Minister is one placency growing up in many quarters. We of the most sincere men in Australia. He cannot assume that, because our position ini represents a 'Western Australian constitu- this State has improved for the time being. ency. We may take it for granted, I think, and because the Prime Minister has said more particularly in view of his pronounce- there is little danger of invasion at present, ments on this question onl many Occasions, our task is anywhere near finished. We can that he would he the last man to delay a be pleased that the scene of active operations reform of this kind if it were possible, de- is gradually getting further away. Whilst sirable, or necessary that it should he given that is occurring, it should be a source of effect to straightaway. I know the Prime satisfaction not only to this House but to Minister very well, and have heard him [8 Ocoon, 1943.] 101203

speak on this question on many occasions. MOTION-TRANS. RAILWAY No one knows its importance more than he CONTINUATION. -does. As to Alternative Routes, Spencer's Brook This House may rest assured that in Mr. to Frrentles. -Curtin we have a Prime Minister who would not be brushed aside by petty parochial HON. A. THOMSON (South-East) arguments or anything of the kind, but who [5.10]: I move-- in the interests of Western Australia would In view of the urgent need for the continua- be only too pleased to do his utmost to see tion, as Soon as possible, of the broad gauge that a big work of this kind, which could railway to provide through connection from mean so much to this State, 'was not delayed the Eastern States to Fremantle, this House any longer than was absolutely necessary. considers a special committee should he ap- pointed representing the Government, the rail- While I can understand Mr. Dimiaitt's de- ways, and commercial and primary producing ,sire and that of others in connection with interests, to examine and report on alterna- this motion to have this work gone on with tive routes whereby the present bottle-neck as early as possible, I do not think we would from Spencer's Brook to Fremantle could be be doing right to request the Commonwealth avoided, and to make recommendations to Par- liament on the most desirable route to be Glovernment at this stage to reconsider its adopted. decision, more particularly in view of the fact that this subject has been reconsidered I 'regret that time will not permit of a full on several occasions within the last 12 debate on this vital and important subject month;, and because the last announcement as it affects the future prosperity of West- by the Prime Minister was an indication ern Australia. It is only a few years ago to this House and the public generally that that I suggested the continuance Of the the decision in -regard to it was based solely Trans. line from Kalgoorlie, branching oft on the advice of the Service chiefs. I hope at Coolgardie, connecting with Kondinin via therefore that Mr. Dimmitt, having venti- Corrigin, Brookion and Armadale, and on lated his views, may see fit to withdraw his to Fremantle. Correspondence took place motion. with the Commonwealth Railways, and I propose to qLLote some of the letters in order RON. J. A. DIMMITT (Metropolitan- to indicate exactly what I have in view. On Suburban-in reply):. Like the Chief Secre- the 24th May, 1941, the following article tary, I pay a tribute to the Prime Minister appeared in "The West Australian": war. I for what he has done during the Standard Gauge. admire him as a Prime Minister. It is, how- ever, I think unfair that the Chief Secre- Kalgoorlie-Fremantle Line. tary should read into my remarks the infer- Covernmnent Declaration Sought. ence he has drawn. What he has suggested A declaration of the Government's policy was very far from my thoughts. I point concerning the provision of a standard gauge out that if we miss the opportunity to railway between Kalgoorlie and Fremantle was sought hy a deputation from the National have this railway built as a wartime measure Party of Western Australia, which met the there is very little hope of our getting it as Minister for Railways (Mr. E. Nulsen) yes- a peace-time project. That was the thought terday. Intimating that he would bring the behind my motion. Mr. Heenan talked of matter before the Government, Mr. Nulsen said that personally he favoured a standard the care-free, happy-go-lucky attitude of gauge line and hie did not think that there people today. Surely this motion does not would be any opposition from the Government. suggest anything in the shape of com- When that appeared in the Press I wrote placency. The whole idea bbind this rail- the following letter to the newspaper con- way extension is to improve Australia's de- cerned, under date the 5th June, 1941:- fences as advocated by high authorities, and On 24th May a deputation representing the there is no suggestion of complacency or Nationalist Party waited upon the Minister for anything in the way of a happy-go-lucky Railways, Mr. Nulsen, requesting a declaration Outlook. I am sorry that note has been of the Governtment's'policy regarding the ex- sounded, and hope the motion will be carried. tension of the standard gauge from Kalgoor- Motion put and passed. lie to Fremantle. On motion by Hon. J. A. Dimmitt, resolu- In reply, the Minister stated he personally approved, and considered a third rail for the tion transmitted to the Assembly and its standard gauge would enable interference with concurrence desired therein. feeder lines in the State to be avoided. 1204 104[COUNCIL])

Obviously the proposal submitted by the de- serious consideration by your Government, if putation and approved by the Minister means it is considering the extension of the staadard that he considered the Government would not gauge to Fremantle. oppose the proposal for duplicating the present From a defence aspect, the suggested route route from Kalgoorlie to Fremantle. has a strategic advantage over the present I sincerely trust that before committing the route, and could he connected to Albany State to the deputation's request, serious eon- ait a reasonable cost, if deemed necessary for sideration be given to an alternative route. defence purposes, as there are absolutely no Let us considor the cost of complying with engineering difficulties to be overcome. the wish of the deputation. Kalgoorlie to I ain aware that this is not in your de- Fremantle, a distance of 380 miles--cost £8 103 partment, but by sending it to you, I hope you per mile, or a total of £2,319,14:0. Accoraing will forward the letter and plan to the Minis- to the Year Book, the cost of Commonwealth ter in control, for his consideration, with your railway construction has averaged £7,677 per personal recommendation -and knowledge of mile, t)ringing the cost of reconstructing the myself, as being one likely to be animated Kalgoorlie-Freman tle route to a total of only by a public sense of duty, and not for £2,917,260, without any compensating advan- personal gain. tage for such a huge expenditure. On the route proposed by me, there is a I doubt whether the work could be done railway line from Brookton to Corrigin, a dis- for that sum; taking into consideration costly tance of 56 miles, and the route from Brook- resumptions which would be necessary to over- ton to Armadale has been surveyed by our come the existing bottle-neck in Perth, which Railway Department, and the construction was retards, most seriously, the free flow of good. passed by Parliament some years ago. traffic to the seaboard. The construction of the earth work on this. Some years ago, in and out of Parliament, I routo seems to offer the opportunity of pro- suggested that a cheaper and better route could viding work for prisoners of wvar, the areas be obtained by branching off from Coolgardie not thickly populated, and therefore would be in a south-westerly direction, crossing the a simnpler matter to keep them under control- Merredin-Yilliminning line at Kondinia, thence Letter and railway map of Western Austra- to Corrigin-Brookton-Armadale-Prementle. This lia route marked red attached. route has the advantage of having no engin- I commend the proposal for your Govern- eering difficulties or costly resumptions to ment's serious consideration, if the extension overcome, and would provide transport for of the standard gauge is being discussed. areas, which at present is Jacking, and cer- That letter was sent on to the Minister in tainly would be a definite additional asset to Canberra, the State. and on the 25th June, 1941, the According to the map, the distance is about Minister for the Interior (Senator Foil) re- the same ats the present route; therefore, the plied to Sir Earle Page, who had forwarded same length of rails and necessary sleepers mny letter to him, in the following terms: would bo required, hut no costly alteration of bridges, stations and resumptions needed. I am in receipt of your communication of' It necessary, the earth work could be proceeded the 24th June to which you attached a letter with immediately. We have large numbers of from Mr. A. Thomson, M.L.C., Katanning, war prisoners in the Commionwealth who have Western Australia, who outlines his proposals to be fed and clothed: Let us follow the ex- in the event of the Government considering the ample set by South Africa, where they arc extension of the standard gauge from Kalgoor- utilising the prisoners to make road;, and thus lie to Fremantle. help to develop their Country. Let us be pine- I shall be only too pleased to give Mr. Thom- ticat and do the same. son'Is suggestions every consideration, and to I commend this route as being one which communicate with you again in this regard. will offer a better military service, and for The following latter, dated the 16th August, less money wilt provide an additional servicb 1941, was sent to Sir Earle Page by Mr. to a portion of Western Australia. T. J1. Collins for the Minister for the Thte- While not creating a serious competitor to our own railway, which our Government states r-mr and Sir Earle in due course forwardedt has cost no less a sum than £2,310,140, to sug- it to me:- gest the expenditure of another £5,500,000 on In the absence of the Minister for the In- the same route does not appear to be sound terior I refer again to your letter of the 24th economlies. June, under cover of which you forwarded a T said £2,000,000, but the answer I got from letter from the Hon. A. Thomson, M.L.C., the Chief Secretary was that the estimated Western Australia, outlining his proposals in the event of the Government considering ther cost of constructing a line parallel with the extension of the standard gauge from Kal- present one would he £.5,500,000. That goorlie to Fremantle. was based on an estimate prepared in 1935. Copy of Mr. Thomson Is letter has been made Ont the 16th June I sent the following letter available to the Commonwealth railways auth- orities and in the event of it being decided to. to Sir Earle Page, then Minister for Com- proceed with the provision of a line of stand- merce: ard gauge between Frenmntle and Kalgoorlie, The attached letter appeared in "The West consideration will ho given to the alternative Australian" newspaper, and is worthy of route suggested by him. [8 Ocmnna, 194341

I quote those letters to show that I am not trust that the House will agree to it. I re- springing on the House a matter that I gret that we are not able to have a more have not considered for a long time. I have detailed discussion and I hope members been advocating this proposition for 14 will realise that I have ewicavoured to be years. I do not propose to occupy more brief. time than is necessary in moving this motion which asks the Government to appoint a THE CHI SECRETARY: We should, committee to examine the alternative routes. perhaps, have a little more time than is While I am advocating this particular route, available to deal with a motion of this kind I think that if an independent committee so that we could diseuss it thoroughly. Mr. composed of one representative of the Gov- Thomson has, gone so far as to introduce his ernment, one of the -railways and one of the motion and, of course, I must say a few cLommercial and primary producing interests, words in reply. I wish first of all to ask: was appointed it could obtain sufficient data Are we justified at this stage in appointing to make a report to Parliament that would a committee to go into such an important produce beneficial results. The route that matter as this and creating what I would I am advocating ia thinly populated in describe as a distraction from the war effort parts. From Kondinin to Armadale it in the minds of the people, when we know passes through country carrying a consider- full well that for some time to come no pro. able population, but it also offers the advan- gress can possibly be made with this pro- tages that if the line were diverted so as to posalV The reason that prompted Mr. Dim- run parallel with the present one the Rail- mitt to move his motion is surely an indica- way Department would not lose any of its tion that there is not likely to be any comn- existing facilities, and while the people menceent of this work for a long time to living along the present route might feel come. Mr. Thomson desires that we should that they would like to see the Trans. line appoint a committee representative of thc, e'xtension carried along their route, it would growers' interests and others for the pur- be far better from the point of view of pose of, in his own words, examining and the State to follow the one I have suggested. reporting on alternative routes. It would That is only the opinion of a private mem- be a big undertaking to make a report on her, hit I have dealt with the matter from something that has been exhaustively in- what I regard as a sense of public duty. quired into by people most competent to Had Parliament not been closing so soon deal with it. it was my intention to ask that the file dealing with the estimate of £5,500,000 I sin advised by the Railway Department .should be placed on the Table of the House. that the question of the route is one that Of course time does not permit of that now. will be determined by the ruling grades It does seem to me, on those figures, that iny through the hills. I halieve that considerable suggestion is one well worthy of considera- time and expense have been incurred in tion. In the interests of Western Australia making all the necessary investigations from jf would be advisable to appoint an inde- a railway point of view. That was done to iendent committee. I expect that costs to- such an extent that in 1935 it was possible day would be twice as much as they were to prepare an estimate. Today1 of course, a when the estimate was made in 1935, or at similar project, while it might not cost 100 least 50 per cent. more. This route presents per cent. more than in 1935, would cost at no engineering difficulties, and will provide least 50 per cent. more. Then again, how transport for areas that are without it at many people would be able to deal with this the moment. It is the best route, in my matter at present? It would require the opinion, from a strategical point of view. time and attention of scores, if not hundred;, It would certainly be a very costly proposi- of people. Are we justified in asking that tion to bring the Trans. line through what they should devote their time and ability to the Railway Department itself terms the dealing wvith a matter which cannot possibly bottle-neck of Perth and the suburbs. I be accomplished for several years to come? have here a map which I will be pleased to When the time does arrive--as I feel sure place on the Table of the House if mem- it will in the post-war period-circumstances bers desire to see it. Any reasonable and might have altered considerably, and there unbiassed person will admit that the motion might be many aspects -requiring attention contains merit and sound commonsense. I apart from the mere matter of alternative [COUNCIL.]

routes. I do not want Mr. Thomson to think motion and I support the views expressedl that I am hostile in this matter;, I have by the Chief Secretary. been interested in it for years, hut I suggest HON. A. THOMSON (South-East-in re- that just as there arc other more important ply) : In moving the motion I prefaced my matters from the strategic point of view remarks by expressing regret at the brevity than dealing with the question of a uniform of the time available to discuss this im- gauge at the present time, so there are more portant question. When I gave notice of my important matters to engage the minds of motion, however, few members realised that the persons who would he involved in con- this would be the last day of the session, ducting an investigation of this kind. In and so I have no apology to offer for having this instance also, I hope the mootion will he tabled the motion. There is much in what withdrawn until a time when detailed atten- the Chief Secretary and Sir Hal Colebatch tion can be given to it. have said with which I can agree, but I also think that the arguments I have HON. SIR HAL COLEBATCH (Mletro- ad- vanced contain a certain amount of merit. politan) : I feel myself in complete symt- When I wrote those letters to Common- pathy with the views expressed by the Chief wealth Ministers, there was a definite idea Secretary. We frequently have cause to that the railway would be built complain of the action of the Government almost im- mediately, I have no desire to start what down Bills in the closing hourH in bringing is termed a battle of routes. The Govern- of the session when there is not sufficient inent already has a committee in existence time to consider them thoroughly. Here we and is boasting of the excellent work it is have introduced a motion which, if it has doing in the way of preparing plans for merits, might very well have been submitted House at a period of the session when post-war reconstruction, but I have in mind to the the possibility to give it adequate consider- of the big project I have there was time mentioned being undertaken. If the Com- do not intend to speak at any ation. I monwealth authorities accept all the respon- length, but I do suggest that after the war it sibility probably he found that the -railway is which they claim is rightly theirs% will and seek the co-operation of the States, pro- institution and that an almost out-mnoded jects of this sort must necessarily be given there are only a few restricted purposes for careful consideration. which it can be advantageously used. What In the course of his remarks the Chief we shall need will he more and better roads, Secretary told the House that the matter and above all the right to use those roads. had been investigated by experts in 19-35. In recent years people in the country have That was the occasion when the experts de- been prejudiced quite as much by the in- tided that the Present route was the one ability to use the roads as by the want of that should be adopted for a line of uniform railways. They have been told that they gauge, and that the proposed route offered must not do this and that on the roads he- no difficulties apart from that of the grades cause it would have the effect of interfering on the section through the hills. I consider, with the railways. I am firmly of the opi- however, that there would he a good deal nion that if more railways were built their of difficulty in bringing that line into the construction would be followed by the intro- metropolitan area, and that the route I sug- duction of njore restrictions. I have always gest as an alternative is at least worthy of thought it monstrous that obstacles should consideration and investigation. be placed in the way of people using the The Chief Secretary: How do you know best and moat modern means of transport. that it has not been considered? Nothing is more certain than that, after the Hon. A. THOMTSON: So far as I am war, the improvements in the motor car and aware, it has not been mentioned. Only one other forms of vehicles not requiring -rails route has been considered for the Kalgoorlie- will be enormous. I believe this is hound Fremantle section, and that is the route to happen and, if any effect is given to the parallel to the existing line, except for cer- Atlantic Charter, the price of petrol will be tain deviations. much lower and there will be no possibility Hon. V. Hamerslcy: You are wrong. A of railways competing with motor traffic on survey has been made of a route following the roads. At this stage of the session, there the river. is no proper opportunity to discuss the [Resolved: That motions be continued.J [8 OCTOBER, 1943.] 101207

Hon. A. THOMSON: That deals with The PRESIDENT: I have assured myself only the city end of the line. Sir Hal Cole- that there is an absolute majority of the batch, in speaking of the changes likely to members present in support of the Bill. occur, gave a very good reason why the mat- The question therefore passes in the affirma- ter should be considered. As regards his tive. references to the restrictions imposed upon Question thus passed. I have fought users of roads in the country, Bill read a third time aud returned to the House hut also against them not only in this Assembly wvith amendments. in another place. In fact, I kept this House sitting almost throughout one night with my BILLS (2)-THIRD READING. protests. I thank the Minister for the cour- tesy of his reply. Though it may be argued 1, Motor Vehicle (Third Party Insur- that the proposal is not practicable, I am of ance). opinion that the experts surrounding the 2, Companies. in ister for Industrial Development could Returned to the Assembly with amend- give consideration to it. If I am returned ments. at the election next yea;, I shall bring the motion before the House again. I do not RESOLUTION-STATE FORESTS. propose to withdraw the motion; members may deal with it as they like. To Revoke Dediatian Motion put and negatived. Message from the Assembly received and read notifying that it had agreed to the ing resolution- BILLr-INCREASE oF RENT (WAR That the proposal for the partial revoca- RESTRICTIONS) ACT AMENDMENT. tion of State Forests Nos. 21, 24, 20t 39, 50 and 55, laid on the Table of the Legislative Assembly's Message. Assembly by commend of His Excellency the Message from the Assembly received and Licut.-Governor on the 7th October, 1943, be rind out. read notifying that it had disagreed to the amendments made by the Council. THE CHIEF SECRETARY [5.51]: 1 move- BILL-LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL (WAR That the resolution be agreed to. TIME) ELECTORAL. When dealing with proposals for the partial Third Reading. revocation of State forests, it is usual to THE CHIEF SECRETARY [5.441: I give members a brief description of the mnvve- areas affected. I propose to follow that That the Bill be now read a third time. procedure and to give the particulars, which are us follows:- Question put. Area No. 1.-Two sumli areas about seven The PRE SIDENT: As it is necessary that miles south-west of Kirup; the third reading be passed by ain absolute about 30 acres in all, cut over for sawmilling and required majority, I shall divide the House. as an addition to an adjoin- Division resulted as follows: ing holding. Area No. 2.-4% miles south-east of Muja; Ayes - .. .. 20 about 400 acres of poor qual- Noes 0 ity forest, well cut over for sawmilling and hewing; ap- Majority for .-- - - 20 plied for by an adjoining settler. Area No. 3.-1% miles south-east of AYEs. Wilga; approximately 60 acres; has Rom, C. F. Baxter Eon. V. Hampersis: been cut over by a sawmilhing Hon. L. B. Boltoa Han. E. Ml.Heenan company; applied for by the Hon. Sir Hal Colebatch Hon. W. H. Kilson H-an, J. Cornell Hon. W. J. Mann adjoining settler as an addi- Hon. L. Craig Hon. 0. W. Miles tion to his holding. Hot. i. A. D Lmmitt Hon. H. 8.1W. Parker Ron. L7 M. Drew Hon. H. V. Ples..e Area No. 4-1%2 Miles south-went of Pember- Han. K, H. Gray Hon. H. L.. Rache ton; approximately 15 acres, H... E. H. H. rN Hon. A. Thomson Non. W. R. Hall Hon. 0. Fraser cut over for sawmilling, alien- (Fe for.) ation applied for. [COtJNCIL.1

Area No. 5.-About four miles South-east of which I traversed when introducing the ori- Pemberton; 40 acres, includ- ing a paperbark swamp, alien- ginal Bill,' but I think I should indicate to ation applied for. members -what alterations have been made Area. No. 6.-1% miles north-east of Karda and refer very briefly to the amendments. Mordo; approximately two The most important amendment is that which acres, carrying no timber of proposes to increase the school-leaving age value, consists of high ground;- desired by adjoining settler from 14 to 15 years. Members will recollect as a house site. that the measure which I introduced pro- Area No. 7.-16 miles south-east of Manji- vided that that proposal should not come mup; about 20 acres, portion into force until the Act was proclaimed. It river fiat, balance poor forest; also provided that the Governor should bays alienation applied for by ad- joining settler. the right to revoke the proclamation whiceh would give effect to the raising of the school- HON. W. J. MANN (South-West): I leaving age. As a matter of fact the actual support the resolution. I am glad that the wording of the amendment was as follows: Forests Department is meeting the wishes Notwithstanding anything to the contrary of settlers by aiding them to secure small contained in Subsection (1) of this section the Governor may at any time on the recom- areas in order to improve their holdings. mendation of the Minister by proclamation ex- What occurs to me, however, is this: I hope tend the maximum age for compulsory attend- the department will not be unduly generous ance of children at a Government or efficient in granting applications that may be made school from 14 to 15 years and may cancel or unless it is proved beyond question that revoke suech proclamation by a subsequent pro- clamation. the land required is essential to the improve- ment of a settler's holding. I mention this It is that power of revoking or cancelling because we shall be requiring large areas of which has been deleted from the Bill. So land in the post-war period. Much of the when the increased school-leaving age comes land comprised within forest areas is not into operation as a result of the proclama- suited to forest Purposes, but exception was tion, it will be permanent. To revoke it or not taken to its inclusion in Such areas as cancel it by another proclamation wvill not it was felt that the dedication could be re- be possible. The only means by which it voked when necessary later on. I desire could then be altered wvould be by an amend- to utter that one word of warning. I feel ment passed by both Houses of Parliament. sure that the House will agree that all appli- I do not think there is any need for me cations for land within forest areas should to speak of the benefits that we can expect be given the most careful consideration. from an increase in the school-leaving age, Question put and passed, and a message seeing that I covered that ground very fully accordingly returned to the Assembly. on a previous occasion. The other amend- ments included in the Bill are very few but BILL,-EDUCATION ACT AMENDMENT. they are important from the point of view of assisting the administration, more parti- Second Reading. vularly in regard to the compulsory provi- THE CHIEF SECRETARY [358] in sions, of the Act. One amendment deals moving the second reading said: This Bill, with the question of giving the department with some few exceptions, is similar to that authority to take action against a parent which I introduced in this Chamber on the where it is satisfied that that parent has 16th September last. Members are, of course, sent his child, or children, outside of the com- aware that that measure was withdrawn, it pulsory radius in order to eva-ke the neaces- being considered that it should have been sity of sending such child, or chitdren. to Preceded by a message from the Lieut.-Gov- school. ernor, and therefore should not have been Hon. J. Cornell: Sucha a man ought to be introduced in this Chamber. A Bill was medically examined. accordingly submitted in the Legislative The CHIEF SECRETARY: The hon. Assembly, passed through all stages and has member would be surprised at the number now reached this Chamber. The alterations of pa-euts who have adopted that attitude. made are not serious, but nevertheless the It often happens, and the excuses put for- measure differs from the one I introduced. I ward from time to time to justify actions of do not propose to go over all the ground that kind are surprising. Anotheri artend- [8 OCTBERt, 1943.] ineat deals with the question of hom cuit-4,n. parent. However, there is no obligation on The Act providesb that children between the the parent to appear. It is no offence for ages of six and 14 must necessarily attend a parent not to appear and there is no pen- classes if they are within three mites of a alty. But when the notice has been sent school. However, exemptions may be granted and the parent does not appear, it is neces- where it can be shown that the par- sary to issue a summons. This cabtses a lot ents are satisfactorily teaching their chit- of delay and creates a lot of work for which dren at home. There are many instances there is no necessity. We are desirous of in which parents are quite competent to obviating the necessity for this notice to carry out this work but we frequently find appear and of restricting the process to that where a child is not attending school at sending along the ordinary summons to at- 61/z years of age the excuse is put forward tend the court. Under the Act, the Minister that the child is receiving, tuition at home. hats certain discretionary powers, one of The department has been satisfied on numer- which is that in the last year of the school ,ous occasions that that has been purely an life of a boy or girt between 13 and 14 years excuse and not a valid reason, The Act pro- of age lie may grant exemption from attend- vides that children shall attend school from ance at school for periods during that last six years of age. There are some who think year on the ground of poverty or sickness that they should be sent to school, or at least in the home. to a kindergarten, at an earlier age. There The Bill contains an amendment taking is an amendment iii the Bill to provide that away that discretionary power and making where the parents of a child desire to teach it compulsory, without any exemption what- that child at home f rom the age of six they ever, for children to attend until they are shall notify the department instead of leav- 14 years of age. We do not get many ap- ing it for the department to discover, by plications these days for children to leave Whatever means may be open to it, that that at 131/ years of age or 13 years and eight child has not been attending school and re- or nine months, but we do get some. The ceiving efficient tuition. Minister is requested from time to time to Another very important amendment is in- grant these exemptions for reasons which cluded to give the compulsory officer the very frequently, from may point of view, do right to enter places of amusement and en- not hold water. it is a source of embarrass- tertainment, particularly when he is sus- ment. picious that children of school age are being Hou. W. J. Mann: You would receive employed at, or are frequently, those places more applications if the school-leaving age dluring school hours. The compulsory officer wvere raised to 15. has the right to stop and question any child The CHIEF SECRETARY: Yes, we in the street who lie thinks is under 14 and might. The amendment takes away the dis- should be at school but be has no authority cretionary power the Minister has had. to enter places of amusement or entertain- Hon. J. Cornell: Is there any statute to muent. On occasions, children under the age say that a child may leave school before the of 14 may be found in or about such pre- leaving age if he passes, a certain examina- mises. They may be there quite lawfully tionl and there may be nothing wrong in their The CHIEF SECRETARY: Under the presence at such establishments. But we Act at present, the headmaster of a school have had reports of cases in which children has authority temporarily to suspend from of 14 have been frequenting these places and attendance at the school a child who is suf- it has not been possible to take any action fering f row some disease or who attends because the compulsory officer has had no school habitually in an unclean condition, authority to enter the premises and inter- but there is nothing to say that the parent view them. or parents of the child should take the neces- A small but desirable amendment relates sary action to cure that condition so that to the summoning of parents. When the the suspension may be lifted. We are pro- department desires to take action against a viding in the Bill that parents shall be parent for any reason whatsoever-but more compelled to give to such children the atten- particularly in connection with a child's non- tion which is necessary. If it is a question attendance at school-the Act provides that of medical attention and the parents are not a notice to appear shall he sent to that in a position financially to give a child the 1210 [COUNCIL.] treatment it requires and there is no hospital the staff is not available. These difficulties that the child can attend, the provision is arise out of war conditions. I am extremely not to be enforced. We have had serious hopeful, however, that it will be possible for cases in recent times. There was one in- the Government to introduce this reform stance in which three children in one family very early in the post-war period. If the were found to have hardly attended school war should continue for any length of time, this year because they were suffering from it might be possible for us to consider mak- a condition that could easily have been ing a start before the war ends. In any cleaned up in three weeks or a month at the event I am hopeful it will be one of the outside. Each of those children has lost reforms we shall be able to accomplish in months of attendance this year simply be- the early days of the post-war period. I cause of the indifference and neglect of the move- parents. That the Bill be now read a second time. Hon. G. W. Miles: Is that the case you Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 7.30 pm. referred to the other nighti The CHIEF SECRETARY: I did quote HON. SIR HAL COLEBATCH (Metro- a case the other night. politan) [7.80]: While there is not likely Hon. G. W. Miles: That mother was work- to be any opposition to this Bill, I am afraid ing. it is not calculated to excite any very great The CHIEF SECRETARY: Yes. The enthusiasm. I welcome it as an indication husband is in the Forces and the wife is of recognition on the part of the Govern- employed- mnent of the public demand for the raising Ron. G. W. Miles: The authorities should of the school-leaving age. That age was be prevented from taking mothers away fixed at 14 years in the first Education Act from families. ever passed in Western Australia, which was The CHIEF SECRETARY: That is not 73 years ago. I cannot help saying that it a. question for the Education Department. is a reproach upon Parliament and upon the We are anxious to have the authority to say people generally that the age was not raised that parents, in cases such as I have men- long ago. One reason for this I know is tioned, shall give children the attention the lack of a proper distribution of powers they need. That is an authority we should and responsibilities in the Commonwealth not hesitate to give the department. The only Constitution. The Commonwealth Govern- ment has unlimited range in its revenue-rais- other amendment is that dealing with kinder- ing powers whilst so far as peace-time re- gartens. We are providing that before any- quirements are concerned, the States have one is allowed to establish a kindergarten that person shall make application to the to discharge most of the obligations on which the well-being of the people depends. department for a permit which, if the con- I hope the present Bill is something more ditions are satisfactory, will be issued free than a pious expression of desire. It does of charge. There are other minor amend- not bind the Government to anything. ments in connection with the establishment It merely empowers the Government to raise of kindergartens, such as the necessity to the school-leaving age when it considers the provide the department with certain inform- time suitable. We must all agree that it ation as to the number of children attend- could not be done now. Money is required ing and the hours they attend and such like for war purposes and therefore at this junc- matters, There are machinery clauses to ture money is not available nor are the ma- place kindergartens in a similar position to terials at band to make possible the erection so-called efficient schools which are estab- of the necessary buildings. Teahers lished at the present time and carry out the in large numbers same are away with the Fight- type of work. ing Forces. But when all these obstacles I think I have covered all the amend- have disappeared the Bill will be of great ments in the Bill and I feel sure the House value only if the Government is prepared will regard the measure as satisfactory. I to place education on a much higher plane am only sorry to think that the increase in in the priorities for public expenditure than the school-leaving age is something that can- it has occupied in the past. This is an in- not be put into operation immediately be- dication of the desire to bring our educa- cause accommodation is rather short and tional system up to the standard reached in [8 Ocrosen, 1943.] the wore progressive countries. The Bill students eager to take advantage of the will not be satisfactory if it merely adds facilities for higher education. We must another year to the present school life of the face the fact that in many directions our child, for that will not accomplish much. present educational responsibilities are not I would like the age to be set at 16 in- carried out to the full. I do not blame the stead of 15. It might make no practical dif- present Government any more than I do ference, hut it would be an indication of Governments that preceded it, hut we must the intention on the part of the Government look f acts squarely and directly in the face. to prepare a well-considered plan of post- Already there is evidence of a desire in cer- primary education commencing at 12 or 13 tain quarters that something should be done years of age, continuing on compulsory lines to meet our present obligations, particularly to 16 years, with further opportunities for to the country children, before the general those likely to benefit by a still further ex- policy of raising the school-leaving age can tended period. Such a policy is in opera- he welcomed by all sections of the commun- tion in many other parts of the world, par- ity. We shall need more teachers and ticularly ini most of the American States, better trained teachers. They cannot be oh- and the details of that work arc well-known tamned in the immediate future nor without to some of our educational authorities here. the expenditure of a good deal of money. At It is based on the assumption that while all points we sac the problem largely boiled up to the age of 12 or 13 years the same down to the two considerations of personnel curriculum may reasonably be suited to all and ]noney. I do not think the first of those children, from that age onward there must presents in'superablc difficulties particularly be more individual treatment, aiming at when the war is over. Men and materials making the best of every child's talents and should be available thea for the necessary inclinations. The purpose is not and cannot constructional work. he to bring about equality; that is neither In that connection it is necessary that we possible nor desirable. Rather is the pur- keep in mind that our school population over pose to give equality of opportunity to all iccent years has been declining to what to children no matter in what walks of life my mind is an absolutely alarming extent. they may have been born. Between 1937 and 1941 there was a decrease Inevitably some children will go, further of 2,000 in the average daily attendance at than others and some of those that will go ouir private schools. The alarming feature further are just as likely to come from of this decrease lies in the fact that in that parents receiving the lowest wage standard period there was an increase of over 1,OO00 as from those enjoying the highest emolu- in metropolitan schools, which means thnt ment. There are potential geniuses in the there war, a decrease of no less than 3,000 in gutter just as there are nitwits wearing the the country schools. I think I am right in old school tie. The aiim should be to enable saying that something like 100 country each child to have a full opportunity to schools were closed down in that period. develop to the limit of its capacity, not Plainly the position will have to be reversed merely to earn a living but to live a full and if the State is to survive.. it will mean the- ample life, permitting it to play its part in cxpenditure of a great deal of money: a the direction of the affairs of the nation as considerable number of teachers will be re- well as in the conduct of its own concerns. quired to maintain to the full the responsi- All this will take time. I do hope that it bilities of our present system alone. I should- will he generally recognised by the Gov- think that after the war there will be plenty ernment, by Parliament, and by the people of young men and women willing to take that we have dropped a long way behind uip teachine as a profession provided it is other countries and that we must make haste made sufficiently attractive. It cannot be if we are to have any hope of catching up. made attractive unless public opinion forces At present our school buildings in mfany upon whatever Government may be in power parts are entirely inadequate to meet re- a proper recognition of the place that quirements. That applies particularly in the education must take in the life of the com- country districts. Our high schools are do- munit. ing a very fine job, but there are too few I venture to think it 'will be found of them, and those we have are overcrowded that the one obstacle to putting our present end admittance has to be refused to many system into full operation and to raising the, 1212 [COUNCIL.] school-leaving age-let alone the initiation I am not suggesting that child endowment of a comprehensive scheme of post-primary was not fully justified; but what I want to ,education-will he money. The inclination point out is that in time of war-when more will be to appeal to the Commonwealth for than all the money that could be raised by the necessary funds and, in view of the ex- loans and taxation was needed for war tent to which the sources of State revenue purposes-the Commonwealth Parliament have been invaded, it is difficult to see what Passed, Without the batting of an eyelid and -other course could he followed. But here with general public approval, a Bill for aigain everything will depend upon the im- child endowment involving considerably portance that is attached to education. 'If more than double the present expenditure it is given its proper place in the priorities, on primary education throughout Australia. the money will be forthcomning-but not No question was raised as to where the -otherwise. I am afraid there is a great lack money was to come from. It was something of a proper sense of proportion. The things the people wanted, something likely to catch that are likely to catch votes-I say that votes; and that settled the question. I re- without any intention to reflect upon any, peat that I take no exception to child en- particular party-are given precedence over dowment but I do say that the proper edu- other matters calculated to contribute to the cation of our people is of even greater im- permanent well-being of the people. Let me portance so far as their future and the -give members an illustration: Primary cdii- future of the country are concerned. That ,cation in Western Australia is necessarily there is more than double the money avail- -costly because of the scattered character of able for child endowment than there is for our population and the consequent number public education shows, to my mind, a corn- of small schools. plece lack of any proper sense of propor- If T am wrong the Minister will correct tion. Then there is another way of looking at me, but T think it is still the case that more this financial question. than, half of our schools have an average I have no sympathy whatever with those -attendance of under 20 and in these the cost people who say that if the Commonwealth per head is £24 10s. as against a cost of £9 can afford to spend £1,500,000 per day on 3s. in the schools with an average attend- the prosecution of the wvar, we should be able ance of over 200 children. The cost per to afford to spend £1,500,000 per day on bead of the average enrolment in all schools social amelioration after the war. We cannot -including ndrinistration-is fl 1s. 2ed. afford to spend £1,500,000 a day on the war. I would like members to keep that cost We know we cannot afford it. But we know ,clearly in mind. The average enrolment we have to do it for the preservation of our does not include all the children between country, and we know that it is piling up the ages of 6 and 14, since an appreciable burdens which wve shall have to bear in the number are educated in denominational es- future. I suggest that in wartime people tablishments. Thus we have it that we spend provide money by taxation to an astonish- £11 1s. 2d. per head on the education of- ing extent and, generally speaking, with shall we say 9-90 per cent, of the children not much complaint. Complaint mostly in the State; and this expenditure goes on comes in cases where it is considered, and covering children from the ages of six to prohably rightly considered, that the inci- 14. Two or three years ago-when the war dence of the taxation is unfair, that certain was in full swing and when it was well classes are being taxed disproportionately to known that taxation and loan funds com- other classes. But, generally speaking, "bined would not be sufficient to meet the there is no complaint by the people against cost of war-the Commonwealth Parliament heavy taxation for the purposes of a war, passed a Child Endowment Act. It was in- although the people know perfectly well that troduced by a National Government, sup- they will not get any return from that taxa- ported by a Labour Opposition, and re- tion. They know the expenditure is non- -ceived with general approval. That Act in- productive. They subscribe the money freely stead of contemplating an expenditure of because they know that it is necessary for £11 13s. 2d. on each child from six to 14 the protection of their liberty. I hope that years of age, provided for an expenditure when the war is over there will be such a of £13 per bead per annum on all children general appreciation of the reproductive up to the age of 16 years. value of education that the necessary taxs- [8 OCTOBER, 1943.]11 1213

Lion will be faced just as cheerfully as it is in it by living with others, not merely as an now faced in the case of child endowment individual, but as a member of a community responsibilities he shares. and the prosecution of the war. whose life and As regards kindergarten education, I RON. GI. FRASER (West) : I shall sup- hope it will not be long before the Govern- port the second reading, but, like Sir HaL mnent accepts a larger measure of responsi- Colebatch, I have certain regrets that thL- bility in that direction. I hope that instead matter of education has not been tackled in of 21/2 per cent. between the ages of three a more scientific manner. I hardly think and six having the advantage of kinder- age by garten education, we shall see it is fitting that the raising of the school-leaving one year, thus adding one wore year to the that 70 or 80 per cent. of the children in present time of teaching, will attain that the State should have that privilege. No objective. I would like to see the children person can be blind to the fact that today democracy is on its trial, and that it is put- divided into three groups. In the first I would place children who will not learn and ting up a pretty poor ease. I have always children who lack the capacity to learn. felt, and on many occasions have said from In the second group I would place children who my place in this House, that only an edu- cated community is fitted to control a de- have the capacity to learn hut whose parents mocracy, that only a country whose people arc not able to pay for their education. In have been trained to achieve a maximum of the third group, I would concentrate efficiency in the different walks of life can children who bave the capacity to hope to enjoy a truly high standard of liv- learn and whose parents can afford to, ing, both material and cultural. It will be carry them on for further education. For those children who will not learn and chil- for the people themselves to demand the equality of opportunity for all youth that dren who have not the capacity to learn is to he secured only through education. If above a certain standard, which is usually the people fail to make this demand, thea we reached at 12 or 13 years of age, I do not shall have a decadent and backward popula- see that an extra year will do much good,. tion- although it will add to the cost of our edui- Wo already are backward in the matter cational system. of education, but we cannot afford to con- I would much prefer that that money, in- tinue to be backward in comparison with stead of heing wasted on the children in other countries. On the other hand, given question, should be spent on the second' this proper recognition of education, all the group, children whose parents cannot afford' discoveries of science and industry will be to give them extra education. I believe that at our command, and we can hope to have if the money were expended in that dire j- a united people enjoying an ampler life tie a, greater good would result not only to- than has ever before been possible to the the child but to the State. We need not, sons of men. I support the second -reading. of course, pay much attention to children but I am sorry that the Bill does not extend who are able to absorb extra learning and' the leaving age to 16 years, thus giving clear whose parents can afford to keep them at indication not merely of an intentian to add school. Whether we make the leaving age 15 one year to the school life but also of a de- or 16 years, those children will remain at termination to initiate as quickly as possible school. It may be said that it is going to a comprehensive plan of post-primary educa- ha fairly hard to discriminate between the. tion. During the tea adjournment I was two classes. I am prepared to leave to- glancing through a book that has recently the Education Department the task of say- been placed in our Parliamentary library, a ilif whether a child will benefit by extra edu- book called "Education for a World Adrift,"1 cation, or whether it should have opportuni- by Sir Richard Livingstone; and I do not tieR for extra education. By this course I think I can more fittingly conclude than by would be leaving the matter in safe hands. quoting the final paragraph of the book- I would go further, perhaps, than the- Our first task is to realise that the spirit of Education Department, especially with chil- citizenship does not grow into a strong plant dren having the capacity to learn. I wouldT without cultivation; our problem will be solved when everyone born in Britain has the know- empower the Education Department to order ledge needed by a citizen, has seen the vision that such children shall be kept at school not of what citizenship is, and has been trained for another 12 mionths, but for several yeart. 1214 1214COUNCIL.] longer. A mere 12 months would Dot be Hon. L. B. Bolton: That isi the point. -of great benefit to them. As regards children Hon. 0. FRASER: It is possible, in the who have the capacity to learn but whose ease of a child of 12 or 13 years of age, to parents cannot afford to keep them at school tell whether it can absorb a higher cduea- for longer periods, it is the duty of the State tion. If it cannot, then the Education to assist the parents of such children. In Department should arrange for extra tech- the matter of powers for the Education necat education for it. This measure is a Department I would go still further. I start towards that extra schooling. I have would give the department the right to sti- no objection to the amount of money that pulate which profession or vocation the most is spent on education, provided it is spent in skilled of our children should enter. That the best interests of the child and of the may seem a little revolutionary, but I believe State generally. that quite a lot of talent has been wasted in this State because of the desire of par- HON. 3. A. DIMMITT (Metropolitan- Suburban): ents to have their children enter certain pro- This Bill is a definite step in the right direction. Like previous speakers, fessions, whilst in many instances the parents are not in a position to say whether the I regret that provision has not been made to extend the child was suitable for the profession selected, school-leaving age to 16 instead of 15. As a matter of fact, I would The Education Department is in a position go even further. I hope that the educational to decide that Johnny is more suited to be- system will come an engineer than to become a doctor. be extended so that all children, both male and female, will eventually be Many such mistakes are made by parents. compelled to take up continuation education If the Education Department were given until 18 years of age, in much the same way the opportunity to stipulate The pairticular as many of our apprentice practices exist profession, much more benefit would result today. That education should only partly to the State than is likely to seerue from the take place at night-time. Part should be haphazard manner in which professions are in the employer's time, no matter what busi- chosen today. I know of many mistakes of ness, profession or trade the individual is wishful thinking on the part of parents in following. judging of the capabilities of their children. Hon. L. B. Bolton: You must make sure I hope that the measure will be enacted, rind that some of the schooling takes place in that the department's intervention will not their own time. be limited merely to ordering a child to re- Hon. J. A. DIMMITT: Yes. Not only main at school for another year. Instead of would we then have a higher standard of kceeping a child grinding at the ordinary education, but greater ability would be dis- sehool work, the department should tadke into played by all, no matter what their situation consideration extra technical training, be- in life or their occupation. This Bill is a cause many of these children would do no commencement and I hope there will be a -good if they stayed at school, from the minimum of delay in proclaiming and imple- point of view of learning, until they were 20. menting the principles it contains. When Hon. Sir Hal Colebatch: It ii very bard speaking on the Address-in-reply at the be- to tell at that agec. ginning of this session, I referred to the Hon. G. FRASER:, I think it is possible. educational system of Western Australia and Hon. L. Craig: The hon. member is away stated that it bad lagged behind those of lip in the clouds. other States and other countries. That state- Hon. 0. FRASER: I may be, but I am ment was, challenged by the Chief Secretary, giving my honest opinion. If the school-leav- who afterwards referred to what be called Ing age is raised to 15, we would not be in the wild statements made by me. There are o hotter position to judge than at present. various reasons why I made those remarks- Hon. L B. Bolton: It would make all thd I was interested to hear Sir Hal Colebateb difference. express a similar opinion. I would like to Hon. G-. FRASER: There again we differ. refer briefly to a few of the reasons for my Many children of 13 years of age are merely statements. time-servers at school until they reach the I think I am right in saying that in no age of 14 years. if, however, they were other State, and probably in no other coun- given technical education, they might develop try of note, does the Edueation Department into first-class tradesmen. send its teachers into the schools with so [8 OaroRER, 1943.] 1215 little background of training as we do in training. What concerns me is the Western Australia. For many years the lack of knowledge of certain educational course of training at the Claremont Train- fundamentals displayed by quite a fair ing College has spread over a two-year proportion of these lads. That is a period. In some States and in many count- fair indication that our system is in need tries it is considered essential that three of some overhaul. I am afraid that years' training is necessary for teachers be- some of us have for years taken our educa- fore they are sent to schools. During the tional structure for granted. Many of us immediate past, teachers in Western Aus- have developed the idea that we have little tralia have been sent into the schools with or nothing to learn from other countries. I only one year's training. From that aspect think it is high time that we discarded our alone I was justified in making the compari- complacent attitude in regard to education. sons I did when speaking on the Address- We must examine our system in relation to in-reply. Our expenditure per head of those in other States and other countries, population is calculated differently from the admit our shortcomings and endeavour to figures supplied by Sir Hal Colebatch, who correct them. There is a generally accepted dealt with the school attendance or enrol- conviction that insufficient money is spent ment. The latest statistics that have been on education. In 1940-41-these are the made available to me show that our expendi- latest figures available to me-I find, accord- ture, per head of population, comparable ing to the report, that Westrn Australia with the amiontls spent in other States on spent1 a little over £802,000 on primary, post- education, is as follows:- primary, secondary and technical education. £ a. d. As these are the categories to be affected Western Australia .. 1 16 8 per head by this measure we must think in terms of New Soutb Wvales .. 1 19 Victoria .. 1 15 £E800,000. Queensland -. 1 19 7 , When one realises that of that sum ap- South Australia .. 1 15 0 , proximately 90 per cent, is spent in salaries Tasmania -. 1 18 2 , and allowances, we know that only a small That table shows that three Australian amount is left for administration and ameni- States spent more per head of population ties. In this respect, the educational system than we did in Western Australia. The of this State is definitely behind those of United States of America, England, and many other places in the world. We several countries in Europe have spent, and lack amenities in our schools. Many still are spending, larger sums per head of members are aware of how dependent population on education. Whilst I am not are State schools for their amenities on an educationist, I count among my friends the generosity of parents and the ac- and acquaintances school teachers, head- tivities of parents and citizens' associ- masters, school inspectors, es-directors of ations. Sir Hal Colebatch said that many education and the present Director of Edu- of our school buildings are unsuited for cation. I have discussed with many of these modemn educational practice. Many thons- educationists the standards of education in ands of pounds are urgently required for the Western Australia. Many of them agree remodelling of our schools. In fact, some that our system is in need of an overhaul, of the schools should be demolished and more und endorse my contention that we do lag suitable bildings erected and, in many cases, behind the other States and other countries. established on more suitable sites. New South Although, as I have said, I am not an Wales, a few years ago, spent a tremendous educationiat, I have been closely associated sum of money on a rebuilding programme in for the past two years with some phases of connection with education. That State has education in the Air Training Corps. In some wonderful schools. I am sure the Mint- that unit we deal with youths between the ister for Education has seen many of thim. ages of 16 and 18 years. These lads repre- sent a fair cross-section of the youth of our The Chief Secretary: We have some good commnunity. We teach them such subjects ones ourselves. as arithmetic, geometry, trigonometry, al- Hon. J. A. DIMMITT: We have, but we gebra, science and physics. In addition we have some terrible ones, too. A few of the give them service-knowledge training, air modern schools that have been erected are craft recognition, morse, drill and physical a credit to the department and to the archi- [48) 1216 1216COUNCIL.] tects. We are still a long way behind most quite a lot of money on the education of other States and countries in the matter of the children. We are only a small commun- school buildings. Any serious study of ity scattered over a vast area, and 1 think it administrative systems is not concerned with could be maintained that we have been the criticisms of individual officials, nor of spending quite a lot of money, despite the the Education Department generally. The figures quoted relating to the Eastern States system is the thing that is in dire need of and other places. But this is where we have overhaul. I want to refer to the attitude of failed signally and dismally; we have not the Education Department to such institu- got value for the money spent. In what way tions as the School for the Blind and the have we not got value? There is a homely Deaf and Dumb Institute. While the Gov- old saying about spoiling the ship for a ernment subsidises both these institutions, it ha'porth of tar. We have expected too much aocs not, through the Education Department, of our teachers by rendering it a physical provide either teachers or inspectors. Al- impossibility for thema to do justice to the though I cannot speak authoritatively of the children placed in their charge. This has other States excepting Victoria, I know that been brought about by requiring them to in that State the Government not only sub- deal with too many children in their classes. sidises the Victorian Institute for the Blind This matter has been the subject of continual and the Deaf and Dumb Institute but also complaint by the Teachers' Union; it has provides teachers for those institutions so been frequently brought under the notice of that they actually form part of the educa- Governments, past and present, but with tional system. I contend it is the respon- very little, if any, result. sibility of the department in this State to It is a good many years since, from attend to the education of all children my place in this House, I said, after regardless of any physical disability from having made inquiries from the Teachers' which they may be suffering, and I urge the Union, that there were 50 and some- department to give consideration to the pro- times as many as 60 children in a class. vision of teachers for the Institute for the I recall that one of the oldest members of Blind and the Deaf and Dumb Institute. In the Chamber expressed amazement at my that respect we do lag behind Victoria at statement. But it was, and is, quite true. least. That number is far too great for any one This Bill establishes the principle of rais- teacher to instruct. So I say that while we ing the school-leaving age. The implement- have been spending a lot of money on edu- irng of the principle will be entirely depend- cation, I do not think we have been getting ent on finance. Sir Hal Colebatch dealt with value for it. Another charge that can be this aspect. Seemingly the only source of urged against the department is that it has money will be taxation, which is today and attempted too much and has swung from one probably will he for ever in the hands of the extreme to the other. When I went to school Commonwealth, so that we shall have to my teacher-he has been for many years look to the Commonwealth, probably through with "The West Australian" newspaper, Mr. the Grants Commission, for the wherewithal Alfred Carson-had to supplement the sal- to improve the educational system. I hope ary he received from the department the time will not be long before the provi- by acting as secretary to a number sions of this measure will be put into oper- of small societies, and we had to learn ation, and later en that the Act will be fur- as best we could under those condi- ther extended, that the school-leaving age tions. Those were the days when edu- will be raised to 16, and that provision will cation was considered to consist in the know- be made for compulsory education beyond ledge of the three R's. Today, what do we the age of 16. I support the second read- find? We find the curriculum crowded ing. with all sorts of subjects, too much to expect any ordinary child to assimilate. HON. E. H. H. HALL (Central): With other members I congratulate the Govern- Has any member here a child Attending ment on having introduced this amendment one of the State schools? It has been my of the Act to provide an additional year's privilege to have five children in attendance schooling for our children. It has often at the State school and one at the University. been said that we in this State are spending This one beat all other children in the State [8 OCTBER, 1943.] 121711 at the Leaving examination, and in mention- Hon. E. H. H. HALL: I should like the ing that I am not speaking in any boasting Chief Secretary, when replying, to tell us spirit. Indeed I feel that when one is deal- who was responsible for that. Was it the ing with education, one has to exercise con- staff of the University? Did the Director of siderable restraint. With Mr. Dimmitt, I Education have any say in the matter? Did claim to have personal acquaintance with the secondary schools have any say? I con- many teachers. The present Director of sider that the teachers who have to deal with Education a few years ago was headmaster the children are the ones who are in a posi- of the Geraldton School. In Mr. Murray tion to say what is a fair thing. I have Little I consider we have a first-class direc- beard numerous complaints about the im- tor and, although he is an idealist, he is also practicability of the curriculum as it applies .a practical man. I wonder whether mem- to an ordinary child. I hope some endeavour bers have any idea of the State school curdi- will be made to put the matter on a more culum. I am speaking of one who was satisfactory basis. The mere fact of a- deprived of secondary education, let alone tending the school age for 12 months is not University education. The curriculum pro- going to give the results that some people vides for a child of 14 to have a knowledge, expect unless commnonsense methods are em- not only of English but of two foreign Ian- ployed to determine the subjects that a child guages--in the case I am quoting, French shall study. What should we set out to and German. Has any member ever seen accomplish in connection with the education the examination papers that are set these of our children I Is it to assimilate as many children for the Junior certificate examin- facts as possible, or to cultivate that initia- ation? tive which is so essential in the individual Hon. J. A. flimmitt: I think those sub- for the good of himself and the good of the jects are optional. State9 Hon. L. Craig: Yes, they are not compul- I was present at a session of the Teachers' sory subjects. Conference held recently-I was the only Hon. E. H. H. HALL: I am coming to member present that day-and I heard the that point. The child starts off endeavouring address delivered by the Director. He said to accomplish what I consider is the inmpos- there was a general impression that when a sible, though the one I have in mind is a child left school his education was com- year ahead of his class. After he had fin- pleted. He added, of course, that that was ished 12 months, the teacher realised that he an erroneous idea, and that when the child was attempting too much and advised him left school, if be had been properly taught, to drop German and concentrate on French. he would do so with the desire to go on There is something wrong when that hap- learning. That should be the recognised pens. Being a layman I speak with consid- aim of education. I regret that no provision erable hesitation. In tbis Chamber we are is made in the Hill to assist parents who fortunate in having a Leader who also holds look for some help from their children when the portfolio of Minister for Education. He they reach the age of 14. In any well regu- has held that office for a considerable time lated State every care should be exercised and must have gained valuable experi- to ensure that children do not suffer by ence of this important department. reason of the financial position of their Amongst the members of this House are parents. I realise that this will cost a great also two es-Ministers for Education, Hon. deal of money and therefore I agree with Sir Hal Colebatch and Hon, J. M. Drew. other members that we shall be forced to When in Bunbury recently I visited the High call upon the Commonwealth Government School and saw the name of Sir Hal Cole- for financial assistance in this most essen batch on the foundation stone laid in 1922. tial matter. I also agree with the members 'These members must know a good deal about who have stressed the fact that children this important subject. In mentioning this should not be kept at school merely to learn I ask the question: Cannot we get a curricu- reading, writing and arithmetic. That point lum that is more practicable than the pre- has also been stressed to me by many sent one? teachers. I hope the extra year will not Hon. J. Cornell: Can you tell us why the be spent in teaching the child those sub- professors abolished English as a compul- jects, but that they will be trained to use sory subject for the Junior certificate? their hands in conjunction with their brains 1218 218[COUNCIL.] and so fit themselves for some useful and amending Bill proposes to strike out Sub- practical *ork. I have much pleasure in section (4) of Section 17 of the principal supporting the second reading. Act, which gives the Minister discretion to HON. W. J1. MANN (South-West): It exempt a child from attending school while is a pity this Bill -was not brought down still under the age of 14. I make this point: much earlier in the session, because it seems In the part of the State which I represent to me to be a fertile subject for debate and there is not one but literally scores of cases, criticism. We have had much harsh criti- where the father of a family is away with ?ism today of our educational system. I do> the Fighting Forces and the wife and chil- not agree with that criticism. By and large, dren are carrying on his farm or dairy. I our system is quite as good as is that of (10 not want it to be understood for a any ot)er State of the Commonwealth. if moment that I are an advocate of child-lab. members will take the trouble to east their our. I am not, but I want to emphasise that minds back, they will realise that a higher now the school-leaving age is to be raised average of brilliant men received their edu- to 15, that will work to the disadvantage of cation in the first instance in our State many families during the war period. For schools than is the case in the other States. that reason I intend to oppose this amend- I could name half a dozen young men who ment. I shall endeavour to get the House have risen to eminence and who received to agree to the Minister retaining power to their first education in our State schools. grant exemption during the war period in Hron. J. Cornell: One is a Supreme Court such instances where he considers it can he judge. justifiably shown that the services of the Hon. W. 3. MANN: We have a Doctor of children are essential to help the Mothee Economies whose name in connection with to carry on the farm or dairy. rationing and other matters has been prom- Hon. J. Cornell: The Minister would still inently before the public of Australia for have that prerogative. the past year or two. Another is a Doctor Hon. W. 3. MANN: If the amendment is of Science who is doing magnificent work passed neither the Minister nor anyone else in London. Many young men and women of will have any such discretion, If a mother this State arc doing excellent work in the kept a boy of 14 years and six months or professions. When we talk about a higher 14 years and nine months away and he was range of education in the future, we want unable to get in the requisite number of to he fair to what the State has done in the atten dances, then the mother wbuld he liable past. I repeat, I am proud of what has to prosecution. I do not think that should been accomplished by our State educational be so. Otherwise, I support the second system. Some members have quoted their reading. own experience. I shall mention my own in a word. My family comprises three chil- THE CHIEF SECRETARY (in reply): I dren, all of whom had their grounding in hope members will hear with me while I say State schools. Two passed on to private at few words in reply to those who have colleges; the other was educated in a State spoken on this Bill. Education is, Of course, high school before passing to the Univer- a subject about which we can talk for many sity. Had I a dozen more children, I would hours and still not get very far. At send them to the State high schools because present there are more schools of thought I am convinced that they would he very well as to the fornm which improvements in our trained by highly competent teachers and education system should take than there are have every possible opportunity to acquire on any other subject one could mention. knowledge. If there is anything in students Hon. J. Cornell: Except winning the war! at all, the high schools will bring it out. The CHIEF SECRETARY: Yes. Not There is one provision: in the Bill which a day passes hut one reads in the Press-- I fear may work to the disadvantage of daily or weekly-of some idea or other that people in the rural districts. The intention some person or some Organ isation has ad- is to raise the school-leaving age to 15 years vanced, either original or copied from what and *with that proposal I am in complete is done elsewhere. In dealing with the sub- adcoMd. If it were peacetime I would advo- jedt, therefore, it seem9 to me we have to cate that the age be increised to 16 years. confine onrselvis to principles. If we do, The Chief Secretary pointed out that this we shall be able to say that Western Aus- f8 OCTOnnR, 1943.] nig11 tralia. has nothing whatever to complain of the provision of the necessary instructors for but a great deal to be proud of in regard .that type of work. However, all these things to its educational system. require the expenditure of money, and I Members: Hear, hear! have to admit that it has not been possible The CHIEF SECRETARY: It is easy in recent years for the Treasurer to provide to he critical, but not so easy to be con- as much money as I have asked for. At the structive. I am pleased to say that during the same time, we have made advances all along last year or two there has been an awaken- the line. ing, not only on the part of educational Let us not forget that this is the only authorities but also on the part of the public State in the Commonwealth where educa- as to the value of a broader education for tion is free. Let us not forget either that our children. That broader education can- we have only a very smnall population and not be given to them unless they are per- a larger number of schools in proportion to mitted to stay at school till a later age our population than has any other State in than 14 years. Many aspects of education the Commonwealth. We have had to meet ex- are receiving considerable attention at the penditure of a kind notfaced in other Stat.e present time. The whole aim and object of We have the difficulty of transporting chil- the department, in recent years at all events, dren from home to school. If we did not has been to prepare for the time when it attempt to meet that position large numbers will be possible for the school-leaving age of children would never, attend school, but to he raised to 15 years or higher. fluring would have to rely on correspondence les- that period everything has been done to sons all their school life. While it might achieve that object. We have made pro- be quite easy to say that we have lagged gress, much more progress apparently than behind other countries and other States, I many members have knowledge of. All that would put it this way: It is very hard in- we have done has been designed to key in deed to make an exact comparison, and with the increasing of the school-leaving there are some phases of education in respect age. We have made valuable improvements of which this State is in advance of the so far as techinical education is concerned, al- other States. though we have not spent nearly as much on Hon. Sir Hal Colebatch: I do. not think that section of education as we should have we have lagged behind the other States, but done. that all Australia has lagged behind other Hon. C. R. Cornish:- I quite agree with countries. you there. The CHIEF SECRETARY: I am not The CHIEF SECRETARY: We have in complaining of the statements thAt have band proposals for the extension of technical been made. I bdieve they were made in all education costing a few thousand poundis good faith. If I wanted to make what I a year extra, but that is altogether in- thought would be a fair comparison, I would sufrncient if we are to deal with that section compare what is happening in Western Aus- in a satisfactory manner. We are inakinig tralia with what is happening in Great Bri- provision for scholarships on the technical tain. I say without any hesitation that there side, instead of forcing the children to pass are many features of our edlucational system through the academic side all the time. Our that are easily the equal of their counter- object is to train our scholars in a prac- part in Great Britain which is a' small tical way, so that they can go to the Univer- country With a large population, where sity equipped to take out a degree in en- theme is far more wealth than exists here, and gineering or some kindred subject Diploma where there is a different method of raising classes in technical schools arc in operation. money for educational needs. In Great Bri- That is quite a recent innovation, hut it is tain a rate is imposed by the municipalities an extension in technical education. Im- for educational purposes. That rate is in- provements in many directions have taken cluded in the local governing authority's place and it is the intention of the depart- general rate, and, in addition, the citizen ment to extend improvements of that kind Pays income tax to the National Govern- into the country districts by establishing ment a proportion of which eventually finds, technical annexes to country high schools and its way to the local educational authorities in other large country centres where the throughout Gtreat Britain. That is a differ- numbers available are sufficient to warrant ent system altogether from ours. -I know of. [COUNCIL.] no local -authority in Western Australia that done in such a way as to be of real benefit contributes anything towards the east of to the boys and girls of this State. I realise education. It is all found by the State that this Bill will receive a very good re- Government. Members can easily see how ception from members. I feel, too, that lengthy a debate on this subject could be- they are perfectly serious when they say come. All I want to say now, in view of the that they regret we cannot increase the age limited time available, is that I would not to 16. It would have been quite easy for agree to raising the school-leaving age to 15 us to have taken the power to increase the years if it meant that we. were only going to age to 16, but I prefer that this Bill should keep boys and girls at school for another be practicable. year. Hon. A. Thomson- Hear, hear! When I first introduced the measure, I The CHIEF SECRETARY; It should be think [ told the House that it would need to legislation that we lave a reasonable chance be accompanied by an enlarged curriculum of putting into operation in the not distant and that it would be necessary for us to future. For that reason we decided on 15 make arrangements so. that the last year of instead of 16 years as the school-leaving age. the school life of the boy or girL would be I hope the time is not far distant when we somewhat in accord with his or her capacity shall be able to consider increasing the age or ideas for the futuire. I mentioned that, to 16, but when we come to do that there believing thi to be so, we were making the are quite a number of problems that will necessary arrangements in order that we have to be considered that have not even would be able to meet the demands on the been mentioned in this debate. I should like Education Department, not only on the aca- to mention two of them, In the first place demic but on the technical side. These mat- there are many hays who enter industry at ters are in the course of being arranged at 14 years of age. 'They are sought by em- the present time. It is on that account that, ployers and catered for by Arbitration when presenting the Bill today, I said that Court awards. In some cases those boys if the war continued for any great lengtb have to go to their employment on account of time it might be possible to consider rais- of the economic position of their parents, age before hostilities and it may be necessary to reach some ar- ing the school-leaving rangement making it possible for those ceased. But the great needs at the present parents to allow such children to continue time are buildings and staff. at school to a later age. Notwithstanding I do not know whether I have mentioned child endowment there are still some parents it before, hut we have a very fine school at who are inclined to allow their children to South Perth. Members have complained of go to work at 14 simply because they feel the fact that we were undertaking certain they cannot afford to keep them at school. extensions at that school when we could not Hlon. L. Craig: Some parents are not find money for other schools. As a matter willing to make sacrifices. of fact the South Perth school is one of The CHIEF SECRETARY: That is so. the keys to the problem of increasing the There are parents who are quite prepared school-imaying age in the metropolitan area. to exploit their children. The other point When these extensions are finished we shall I want to make is that we have Arbitration he able to cater for children on the south Court awards. There is the Factories and side of the river and will be able to Shops Act which governs the age at which relieve certain schools on the north side. boys and girls may be employed. Conse- Additional accommodation will be found by quently when we do increase the school-leav- the transfer of children from one school to ing age to 16 years it will be necessary for another. There arc many problems asso- some alterations to be made in that regard, ciated with this matter. I would like to assure and it is in that direction we might strike the House that in the Director of Education the biggest difficulty. I need not go into in this State we have a man who is not details. Members can imagine some of the only academically qualified but is also most problems that are likely to arise. Fewer practical in his outlook. I-am co-operating problems are involved by raising the age with him to the utmost of my ability, and merely to 15. Without spending any more I -feel that when the time comes that we time on this interesting and absorbing sub- are able to put into operation this plan for ject, I desire to express appreciation of the increasing the school-leaving age it will be way the measure has been received. [8 OCTOBERu, 1943.] 121221

Question put and passed. of age, after which he or Ae may be permit- Bill read a second time. ted to concentrate on shorthand, bookkeep- ing, or whatever commercial subject may be 12n committee. chosen. It must be assumed that these chil- Hon. J. Cornell in the Chair; the Chief dren are not dull; otherwise they would not Secretary in charge of the Bill. go in for that type of education. They Clauses 1 and 2-agreed to. represent the type of cild that will profit Clause 3-Amendment of Section 13: by another year's general education. I think. Hon. A. THOMSON: I move an amend- Mr. Thomson's amendment is a mistake. met- The CHIEF SECRETARY: I agree with That a new subelause be added as follows:- what Sir Hal has said. I do not see any (4) Whenever iii accordance with the pro- visions of Subsection (2) of this section the necessity at all for the amendment, in view Governor has by proclamation extended the of the fact that Section 32 of the parent Act maximum age for compulsory attendance at a enables the proprietor or headmaster of an Government or efficient school from fourteen institution such as a commercial college to years of age to fifteen years of age and whilst such proclamation remains in force the pro- apply to the Government for a certificate prietor, headmaster or principal teacher of a setting out that it is an efficient school. The school, wherein the subjects of instruction point is that these commercial colleges gener- given are, for the most part, such as to fit the ally concentrate on one or two subjects and pupils for a commercial or business career, may apply to the Minister, in writing, to have have not the general curriculum that is avail- such school found Oljflcet for the pur- able in other schools. I am afiraid that if poses of this Act; and upon such application we accept the amendment we will to some being made, the Minister shall forthwith cause extent vitiate the object of the Bill. such school to be inspected by an inspector of schools; and if, upon inspqction, such school is Hoan. A. Thomson: You will still have found to be efficient as to the instruction given power to decide and, in any case, cannot a in such subjects as the Minister shall consider child take up the Junior examination at 14 necessary or advisable the Minister shall cause such school to he included in the list of schools years of age? which have been inspected and found efficient The CHIEF SECRETARY: Of eourse, or certified to be efficient and thereupon such school shall, for the purposes of this Act, he but that does not affect the principle. I considered an efficient school: think it wiould be a retrograde step to agree Provided that any pupil under the age of to the amendment. fifteen years attending such school shall attend for the same number of hours in a week, whilst Hon. L. Craig: The last year is always such school is open, as a pupil attending a the most important in the school life of a Government elementary school is required to child. attend that school: Provided further that no child under the The CHIEF SECRETARY: That is so. age of fourteen years shall attend as a pupil at such school during the hours prescribed for The CHAIRMAN: I amn inclined to re- attendance by pupils at a Government elemen- gard the amendment as out of order. tary school. The CHIEF SECRETARY: I did not The object is to provide for children who, like to raise that question, but I do not think having reached the age of 14, desire to take it is in order. up a commercial course. In this city there are certain commercial schools which pro- Ron. L. CRAIG: I do not quite under- vide specialised training. As that phase is stand the amendment, but so far as I can not dealt with in the Hill, the amendment gather it would seem to have the effect of Bill, and it will will enable the Minister to grant a license defeating the object of the to enable the school to carry on. A definite allow a child to skip the extra year's tuition hardship will be imposed upon many parents so that it can concentrate on a commercial if they are not allowed to send their children education. to colleges where they can get a specialised Ron. A. THOMSON: I am sorry to hear commercial training. Mr. Craig make that remark. As the Chief Hon, Sir HAL COLEBATCH: I appre- Secretary agreed, a child can take the Junior ciate the motive Mr. Thomson has in view, examination at 14 years of age and, having but I do not like the underlying principle attained that, he will have had the benefit of which is that we should regard the child's the highest standard of education provided general education as completed at 14 years in the primary schools. Of course, if the 1222 1222(COUNCIL)

Government were to provide the same facili- after the war is over it will not be neoesiary ties as these available at the commercial col- for boys of 14 to do such work as tins been leges- described. I appeal strongly to the Chamber The Chief Secretary:- We provide better not to permit any form of exemption. A facilities. good many years ago in South Australia the Hon. A. THOMSON: Then the number compulsory school-leaving age was 13 years, of parents who send their children to com- but there was a provision by whi 1h any child mercial colleges is surprising I passing his examination in, I think, four The CHAIRMAN; I rule that the amend- subjects was at liberty to leave school at ment is out of order as, not being relevant once. There was a boy who passed in those to the Bill. four subjects at the age of 11 ., years. Not Hon. A. THOMSON: I shall not dispute because of any greed of his parents, but your ruling, although I do not think, Mr. because of his own folly, the boy left ichool Chairman, you arc right. immediately; and in the 60 years whinh have Amendment ruled out. passed since he has regretted it only once, 'Clause put and passed. and that has been the whole time. Clauses 4 to 6-agreed to. lion. W. J. MANN: I move an amend- Clause 7-Amendment of Section 17: met- Hon. W. J. MANN:- I am assured that That paragraph (a) be struck out. the deletion of Subsection (4) of Section Hon. A. THOMSON: Ever since compul- 17 of the principal Act 'will affect children sory education has been in existence in Aus- -who are assisting their parents on the farm tralia, there has been a provision allowing and that it will take away all discretion the Minister to use his discretion in this from the Minister in the matter. After the matter. I hope the amendment will be ear- war is over, the position will not be acute, ried. because the father will be home from the Amendment put and negatived. war. Clause put and passed. The CHIEF SECRETARY: At present Clauses 8 to 10-agreed to. the Minister has discretion to exempt from Clause 11-New sections, Kindergartens: attendance at school children in certain cir- Hon. W. J, MANN: Can the Chief Secre- cumstances, which are limited to poverty tary tell us why these permits should have and sickness. I do not think poverty would a currency of only one year? I assume that cover the ease stated by Mr. Mann. Appli- Subclsuse (8) deals with established kin- cations are often made solely with the ob- dergartens which have a certain quantity of ject of exploiting children. apparatus, etc. Is it possible to give a Hon. W. J. MANN: I am not moved by longer security of tenure than one year? exploitation in any degree. At the present The CHIEF SECRETARY: The reason time I know of a boy aged 14 2 years who js?that conditions may change The measure is extremely useful to his mother who has provides that before a kindergarten can be numbers of cows and pigs to look after, as established it shall he satisfactory in a is often the case in my district. Such boys unumber of directions. It will then be given today are doing practically men's work. If a permit. If changes in accommodation, the Minister cannot grant some exemption teachers, or equipment, for instanace, take in the case of such a boy, the position of place wve desire to reserve the right to with- the mother will be one of*' acute difficulty. hold or withdraw the permit. If the public of this State knew what boys Hon. W. J. Mann: If a kindergarten does and girls are doing in our rural districts not conform with those conditions, it would after school hours, they would be proud of automatically lose the permit. those young people. However, the children The CHIEF SECRETARY: If ii has to cannot do all the work that is necessary. apply each year for a permit, the depart- Bloys of 14 are ploughing and pu~tting in ment would know whether it was complying summer crops; their sisters are working hard with the conditions and what alterations had to aid the mother. 'The Minis-3ter FIiouild have been made. This imposes no hardship. power to grant exemption in such eases. Clause put and passed. Hon. Sir HAL COL.EBAT CR: This Bill Clause 12, Title-agreed to. is not' likely to be put into oper-tion dur- Bill reported wi thout amendment and the ing wartime. Surely we must hope tbst report adopted. [8 Oc'roR, 1943.] 122312

Third Beading. mantle and for work done for the Common- Bill read a third time and passed. wealth by the Public Works Department. There was again an increase in the receipts BIL-APPROPRIATION. from the Royal Mint, this year to the extent of £23,700, arising from further contracts First Reading. for coinage. Profits from the State trading Received from the Assembly and read a concerns were lower by £21,000, £C11,000 of fist time. this being due to reduced' profits of the State Saw Mills. Earnings of the public utilities Second Reading. were £620,000 above the estimate, the only concerns showing reductions being the THE CHIEF SECRETARY [9.35] in Buwbury Harbour Board and the State moving the second reading said: This Bill is Batteries. The principal increases were: required for the purpose of appropriating Railways £431,000, Fremantle Harbour the funds necessary for the services of the Trust £94,000, Tramways £C44,000, and Gold- year and is introduced each year after the fields Water Supply £23,000. passing of the Estimates. A Supply Act On the expenditure side there was a sav- was passed earlier in the session granting ing of £82,000 in interest on the public debt, £2,000,000 from the Consolidated Revenue most of which was due to less interest than Fund, £200,000 from the General Loan Fund expected being payable on a loan which and £300,000 from the Public Account for was converted during the year, and the re- advance to Treasurer, and Clause 2 of this mainder from excess provision for interest Bill grants further supply as set out in on new money due to the small amount bor- Schedule A. Clause 3 appropriates the rowed. Departmental expenditure in moat supplies for the several purposes summar- cases was fairly close to the estimate, ised in Schedules B, C, and D. the exceptions being Treasury, Public The estimated expenditure for the current Works and Education. The item "Trea- year from the Consolidated Revenue Fund surv Miscellaneous" was under-estimated is £18,135,053, of which £4,665,356 is per- by £225,000. Of this amount £81,000 manently appropriated by Special Acts, the was war-caused expenditure such as civil remaining £1.8,4697 being the amount defence, special police, travelling conces- now requiring appropriation. Clause 3 also sions to members of the Forces-which ac- appropriates the excesses on the votes for counted for £40,000 of the increase--and 1942-43, the details of which arc set in departmental shelters, and £101,000 for ac- Schedules E3 and F, the total sums being cumulated losses of the State Shipping Ser- £875,309 2s. 26. from Consolidated Revenue vice. In addition, £35,000 was provided to and £C47,300 11s. 8d. from the General Loan meet known losses of money advanced by Fund. As a set off against the excess on the the Commonwealth for drought relief. Consolidated Revenue Fund there were con- These advances were in the nature of a loan siderable savings on other items, the net to the States by the Commonwealth due to be result being that the expenditure exceeded repaid within seven years, and the sum men- the estimate by £698,930. The revenue col- tioned represents amounts which it is known lections, Eiowever, were 'greater than the the assisted farmers will not he able to -repay. estimate by £757,176 and the actual results Public Works expenditure showed an in- showed a surplus of £24,436. There was crease of £C130,000 of which the sum £,100,000 an increase in taxation receipts of about has been placed in suspense to be used, £27,000, items under-estimated being totali- when conditions permit, on the rehabilita- sator duty, entertainments tax and license tion and maintenance of public buildings. fees, while land tax and stamp duty were Expenditure of £15,000 not provided for on less than anticipated. the Estimates was incurred in connection Territorial revenue showed an increase of with the new slipway which is now in con- almost £30,000, principally land rents, the stant use. There was a saving of £37,000 result of a favourable season and a reason- on the expenditure of the Education De- able fixed price for wheat. Departmental partment due mainly to the enlistment of receipts improved to the extent of about many teachers from the permanent staff and £E102,000, most of this coming from sales of their replacement by temporary officers, the firewood by tbe Forests Department and greater proportion of whom are females. revenue earned by the new slipway at Fre- Expenditure on public utilities exceeded the 1224 [COUNCIL.] estimate by £400,000. Of this £338,000 was Improvement Fund. A scheme of the pro- in connection with the railways, £120,000 posed expenditure has been laid on the Table having been put aside for deferred main- of the House. I move- tenance which will be carried out when That the Bill be now read a second time. labour and materials are available. The re- mainder of the increase was mostly on the EON. J. COR.NELL (South) : There are general working of the railways and was two items in Schedule E dealing with defal- incurred in the earnings of the increased cations by employees of the Crowvn. One revenue. concerns an instance at Boulder involving £1,969 17s. 9d., and the other defalcations Dealing with the Estimates for the cur- by an officer involving £125 19s. 6d. I rent year it is anticipated that there will be happen to know all about the first case. another small surplus of £1,050, revenue be- There is another case of two officers who got ing set down at £13,136,558 and expenditure away with some £5,000 or £6,000 from the at £13,135,053. Compared with the previous State Government Insurance Office. In the year revenue is expected to be lower by £15,000, receipts from taxation being set interests of Government employees generally I wish to enter an emphatic protest against down at £11,000 less and public utilities £1839,000 less, while departmental should be some of the shortcomings in the matter of £97,000 more and trading concerns £32,000 supervision in the service. There were three more. Among public utilities it is not ex- young fellows full of promise and ability, peeted that the Fremantle Harbour Trust or but owing to the lack of proper supervision the railways wvill maintain the increased re- of them and the money they were handling, sults shown last year and decreases of they wvent astray. That section of the ser- £E22,000 and £146,000 respectively are antici- vice should be tightened up. pated from those concerns. Tramway re- The Chief Secretaiy: What section? venue, however, is set down at £10,000 more Ron. J. CORNELL: Well, all sectious. and electricity supply at £23,000 more. The The Audit Department is responsible for see- Forests Department will continue its policy ing that this sort of thing does not happen. of producing firewood and increased revenue It was known that the man at Boulder muse from that source is set down at £32,000. have been getting money elsewhere than from Other increases under the heading of "De- his salary, hut this condition of affairs con- partmental" are Public Works £3S5,000 and tinued for some time. This is as much the Treasury £24,000. fault of those responsible for seeing that Expenditure for 1943-44 is estimated to be employees do the proper thing as it is of the about £8,000 above that for 1942-43. Conm- employee. In the second case I venture to mitments under Special Acts are set down at say that the proper thing was not done. A approximately £E70,000 more than was spent thorough examination was not madec; other- in the previous year. Most of the increase, wis the defalcations would have been de- about £58,000, is in connection with interest tected long before. But those young fellows and sinking fund on the public debt, and in- were allowed to go on and on. Something creased payments tinder the Superannuation is wrong with the system of supervision. and Family Benefits Act account for £25,000. Here we have a House Committee and the Against these items there is a saving of transactions of the Controller of the House £12,000 by reason of the fact that no provi- are watched very closely. Yet young men sion is required this year under the Pig In- of less than 30 years of age are able to get dustry Compensation Act. Under "Govern- away with large sums of money right under mental," most of the departments will have the nose of the head office. Young men increased expenditure, part of which is due handling money are exposed to temptation, to the higher basic wage, but owing to cer- but if thorough and regular supervision were tain non-recurring expenditure last year by applied, they would be saved from getting the Treasury and the Public Works Depart- off the right track. ment, the net result will be a reduction of Eon. L. B. Bolton: Are not these defal- £40,000. Public utilities are expected to cations eovered by fidelity guarantees? show a saving of £21,000 mainly due to re- Hon. J. CORNELL: I am not concerned duced expenditure by the Railway Depart- about that. I want to see proper supervi- ment. Clause 4 of the Bill is to approve of sion exercised so that we shall not permit the expenditure of £E81.000 from the Forests facilities for the making of criminals. [8 OcTOBER, 1943.1]22 1225

Question put and passed. No. 4. Clause 5, proposed new Section Bill read a second time. h1A-Delete Subsection (4). The CHAIRMAN: The Assembly's reason In Committee, Se. for disagreeing is- Bill passed through Committee without The retention of this subelause is necessary debate, reported without amendment and to make the protection effective. the report adopted. The HONORARY MINISTER: I move- Bill read a third time and passed. That the amendment be not insisted on. Question put and negatived; the Council's 3111.-INCREASE or RENT (WAR RE- amendment insisted on. STRICTIONS) ACT AMENDMENT. No. 5. Clause 5, proposed new Section Assembly's Message. 11B, (1), page '3--Delete all words con- Message from the Assembly notifying that tained in lines 32 down to line 39inclusive. it had disagreed to the Council's amend- The CHAIRMAN: The Assembly's rea- ments Not. 1 to 5 inclusive, now considered. son for disagreeing is-- The particulars required are essential to the In Committee, reasonable protection of tenants. The words "tenant who first lenses such land" in line 40 Hon. J. Cornell in the Chair; the Honor- would have to be deleted in the event of the ary Minister in charge of the Bill. amendment being accepted. Nos. 1Land 2. Clause 5, proposed new The HONORARY MINISTER: I move- Section 11A (1), page 3-Delete the words That the amendment be not insisted on. "refuse or procure" in line 3, and substitute Ron. J. A. DIMMITT: The Assembly the word "influence"; (2) delete the words does not appear to have read the Bill as "refused or procured" in line 9 and sub- amended. stitute the word "influenced". Question put and negatived; the Council's The CHAIRMAN: The Assembly's rea- amendment insisted on. son for disagreeing is-- Resolutions reported, the report adopted The acceptance of these amendments would and a message accordingly returned to the destroy the effectiveness of Subelauses (1) Assembly. and (2). The HONORARY MINISTER: I move-- BILL-LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL (WAR That the amendment be Dot insisted on. TIME) ELECTORAL. Hon, H. S. W. PARKER: I moved this Assembly's Message. amendment. If it is not adopted, no person Message from the Assembly received and would dream of letting a house because of read notifying that it had disagreed to the restrictions imposed. They are alto- smendments Nos. 1 to 45 inclusie made by gether too drastic. the Council. Question put and negatived; the Council's ,In Committgee. amendment insisted on. Hon. J. Cornell in the Chair; the Chief No. 3. Clause 5--Proposed new Section Secretary in charge of the Bill. h1A-Delete Subsection (3). No. 1. Delete the definition of "Dis- The CHAIRMAN: The Assembly's reason charged Member of the Farces" on page 2. for disagreeing is- The CHAIRMAN: The Assembly's rea- This amendment would circumvent the prin- son for disagreeing is-- ciple of the clause. In view of the amendment of the definition Tbe HONORARY MINISTER: I move- of "Election" and the deletion of the whole of Clause 4, which is the basis of the proposed That the amendment be not insisted on. alteration of the franchise, the remainder of Hon. H. S. W. PARKER: Members will the amendments are more or less consequen- recall that I pointed out that under this tial. clause a man who was going away and said The CHIEF SECRETARY: Clause 4 is to his wife, "Do not let our house" would the crux of the Bill. -It proposes to give a be liable to a penalty of £20. vote to all members of the Forces, irrespee - Question put and negatived; the Council's tive of whether they ate in or out of Aus- amendment insisted on. tralia. ['COUNCIL.]

Hen. L. Craig: And whether they are en- Hon. C. F. BAXTER:- By the Constitu- rolled or not. Lion of this House being altered. Hon. L. B. Bolton: And whether dis- The Chief Secretary: Who can do that charged or not. other than the members of this House? The CHAIRMAN: Is it proposed to deal Hon. C. F. BAXTER: Once an open ing is with these amendments en bloc? made, the door will never be closed again, Members: Yes. and then it will be goodbye to the sound The CHIEF SECRETARY: There is government of Western Australia, I ask the something to be said for the way in which Committee to stand firm on this matter. the Assembly has dealt with these amend- The CHAIRMAN: Evidently another, mnents. place has indicated that it is a ease of its Bill or no Bill. It has made no alternative Hon. C. F. Baxter: You are not in favour suggestion to the Council's amendmentg iof the Assembly's action, surely? which, under its Standing Orders, it w~as en- The CHIEF SECRETARY: Clause 4 titled to do. I presume the Chief Secretary proposes to give the soldier a vote because desires that all the amendments moved by the he is a soldier, not because he is possessed Council be not insisted ont 7of a small parcel of land or is a leaseholder The CHIEF SECRETARY; That is so. 4or a householder. It is on that basis, I take I move- i4, that the Assembly has dealt with the That the Council's amendmaents. Nos. 1 to amendments made by this Chamber. If a 15 inclusive be not insisted on, person is sufficiently interested in his country to join one of the various arms of the Forces It would have been very awkward, almost impossible, for another he should be entitled to vote. place to deal with the amendments other than in the way in which Hon. C. F. Baxter: Were not many com- they were dealt with. pelled to join, Hon. W. J. Mann: It did not try. The CUTEF SECRETARY: Yes. I wilt The CHIEF SECRETARY: I do not put it in another way. Any person who know that we have reason to complain. We becomes a member of the Forces and is liable are masters of our business in this House to serve in any part of the war zone, should just as the members of the Assembly are be entitled to vote for the Legislative Coun- masters of the business in their House It cil. A soldier in the metropolitan area today would have been extremely difficult to insert may be sent to Darwin or to some war sphere in the Bill in another place any alternative -at any time; he is not the master of his to the principle contained in the original movements, and he should be entitled to a Clause 4. -vote. I &hall move that the amendments be The CHAIRMAN: The Committee could mot insisted on. break new ground and make alternative Ron. C. F. BAXTER: It is apparent amendments. 'that another place is going to open the door Hon. C. F. BAXTER: I do not know if it very wide indeed. It is attempting to set is for this Committee to break new ground. aside the Constitution of the State, so far as It has taken a stand. If the Assembly had it relates to this Chamber, by extending the been serious and was prepared to meet the franchise to young people of 18 years of position reasonably it would have taken time age because they are doing their part in the over the matter and suggested some alter- defence of the country. Apparently the ation. Contrast its attitude towards this Bill Government is prepared to jettison this Bill with its attitude toward the Bill affecting the if all members of the Forces cannot be in- Assembly! Every amendment to that Bill eluded. if that were agreed to the Constitu- made by this Committee was acceptable and tion would be thrown wide open. It is all severe restrictions were made by the Com- right to say that this measure is only for te mittee. So far as their own House is con- duration of the war and for a period there- cerned the members of the Assembly were after. We know how that kind of thing prepared to grab what we gave them but operates. It will ultimately mean that the have not made the slightest atteipt to effect Constitution will be amended. Once they any modification in this measure. are on the roll they will be left there. The CHIEF SECRETARY: So far as Ebb. G. Fraser: How can they be put on the Assembly Bill is concerned, this Commit- the rollt tee agreed that some members of the Forces [8 Oeroasa, 1943.) 122722 shlould he entitled to a vote because they of the works at a later date or for re-appro- were members of the Forces. In this in- priation to other projects. Members are stance we have said that only those men who aware that in the expenditure of loan funds are qualifi-ed to vote and are enrolled shall by the various States the needs of the Com- be entitled to vote. Nothing has been given monwealth Government for war purposes to members of the Forces other than what are of para~munt imphrtance. By agree- they would have been entitled to as civilians, ment, loan expenditure is limited to works. that is, those who were qualified by being having a defence value or to the completion enrolled, If this Committee had only agreed of works which had been in progress. to those soldiers being given the vote who The difficulties of manpower are apparent are qualified but who for some reason over to all. It would be impossible to obtain which they have no control are not enrolled, labour even if the Government were desirous that would have been a different thing en- of embarking on an extensive loan pro- tirely; but all the Committee has said is that gramme. There is a very acute shortage. it will give the vote to soldiers who arc of labour which the Government, in common entitled to vote and who are an the roll. with other prospective employers, encounters Question put and negatived; the Council's at every turn. So on this occasion our amendments insisted on. loan programme is not a very etensive Resolution reported, the report adopted one. As a result of the system of co-ordina- and a message accordingly returned to the tion between the States, by which each State Assembly. is required to submit its loan programme to Sir Harry Brown, the Co-ordinator General, BILL-MOTOR VEHICLE (THIRD who then submits a recommendation to the PARTY INSURANCE). Loan Council, the programmes approved foii Assembly's Message. the States in the past few years have been very much curtailed. This is quite under- Message from the Assembly received and standable, because in the pre-war days, part -read notifying that it had agreed to the of the States' objective in regard to loan amendments made by the Council. works was to find employment for those who, hut for the provision of such works, BILL-LOAN, E350,000. would be unemployed. That situation has Second Beading. been entirely altered, and now in place of THE CHIEF SECRETARY [10.25] in finding works to provide employment, the difficulty is to find labour to carry out works moving the second reading said: With the introduction of this measure we are re- which arc really essential. winded that the session is drawing to a No Commonwealth loans have been floated close. By the Bill, authority is sought for in recent years for other than war purposes. the raising of a sum of £350,000 by loan for In the event of the States requiring money the construction of certain public works and] for loan works the Loan Council has ar- services, brief details of which I will supply ranged with them that they shall re- during the course of my remarks. The ceive advances from the Commonwealth amount asked for is small by comparison Government, through the Commonwealth with that sought in pre-war days, This has Bank, by the issue of Tr~asury hills. These been occasioned by the desire of the Govern- bills were funded at the end of the year at ment to restrict the expenditure of avail- the interest rates and conditions applicable able loan funds to purely essential require- to the most recent public loan. Last year ments. this State did not require to draw any money Although the Estimates provide for the from the Commonwealth Government for expenditure during this financial year of 'loan purposes, because we entered the year £805,104, the amounts set out in the Bill, with a fairly substantial carry-forward of together with unexpended balances of pre- money, in addition to which we received vious authorisations, will be sufficient for under the agreement for the transfer of the the purpose. The cessation of unemploy- Savings Bank sufficient money to finance our ment relief work, and the curtailment of ex- requirements. penditure in other directions, account to a During the last financial year five conver- great extent for the unexpended balances. sion loans were floated in Australia and one These will be available for the resumption in London. The Australian conversions 12ZB 1228COUNCIL.3

covered amounts totallig £C3,500,000, with machinery which is on order, £5,000 on the interest rates ranging from 3Y2 per cent, to completion of the turntable, locomotive de- 3% per cent. The loans were all converted pot and barracks at Northamn, £C4,800 for to the existing rates-naaely, 2 2 per the renewal of the Claremont subway, cent, for a 5-year term and 3 per £E13,400 for the provision of a new dam at tent, for a 16-year term-and £220,000 Caron, and £10,000 for automatic signalling was converted to the lower rate. In Lon- apparatus at Koojedda. In respect to the don an amount of £3,229,000 at 2% per automatic signalling apparatus, this can only cent. was converted to a 3 per cent. loan be supplied provided the required electrical issued at a discount of 2 per cent, for a equipment can be obtained. term of only three years. This conversion An amount of £5,000 has been set aside as was not as favourable as the Australian con- preliminary expenditure on the purchase of versions. However, the terms were the best six double-engined Diesel electric rail ears, that could be secured. Loan expenditure which it is anticipated will ultimately involve last year amounted to £774,606, this includ- the Government in an expenditure of ing loan suspense amounting to £137,062- £153,500. As these units will have to be this loan suspense represents money spent imported from overses, some time must in a previous year for which Parliamnen- necessarily elapse before they will be avail- tary authority had been anticipated-which able. In the first place, howvever, tenders after deduction leaves a balance of £637,544. will be called before anything definite is To be added to this expenditure, however, done in this connection. The additional is £19,372, the amount spent last year from Diesel cars will enable improvements to be loan suspense and which appears in the made to country passenger services. The Estimates for this year. The cash expen- proposal is to construct six power ears of diture on loan works last year was therefore 350 horse-power each, and twelve trailers, £656,916. making six trains each consisting of one I have already mentioned that the Esti- power car and two trailers. Each train will mates for this year total £C805,104. This in- provide accommodation for 126 passengers eludes the sumn of £19,372 spent last year, seated, and five tons of luggage and parcels. which is included in the Estimatcs for the The provision of these additional cars will purpose of Parliamentary approval, so that give a fleet of 12 Diesel cars and 18 trailers. the estimated cash expenditure this year is For a continuance of the work on the con- £785,732, or an increase of approximately struction of 10 "S" class locomotives, an £130,000. Turning Dow to a review of the amount of £10,000 has been provided this expenditure last year and the Estimates for year, whilst it is expected that £20,000 of this year; last year £657,000 *was spent on a total estimated cost of £92,000 will be various undertakings. This year the esti- utilised this year in providing five "PH" mate is £786,000, representing an estimated and. five "DS5" locomotives. increase of L129,000. A review of the ex- In connection with Tramway expenditure, penditure and estimates shows that £150,314 last year this amounted to £71,562. The was expended last year on railways, tram- estimate for the current year is £85,000. An ways and electricity supply, the estimate for amount of £60,000 was expended last year on this year being £387,000. In respect of the the purchase of 18 Canton-type trolley buses. railways, an amount of £21,746 was ex- It is estimated that a further amount of pended on additions and improvements to £3,400 will he required for the completion of open railways, mainly in connection with the these buses. That amount has therefore Midland Junction Workshops. New mach- been included in this year's Estimates. So inery east £11,800. This activity is not yet far the fleet of trolley buses consists of 40, completed and has been occupying attention comprising 22 of the old type and 18 of the for some time. Canton type. Of these, 37 are in service. A new turntable, and the provision of a The remaining three will he put into service locomotive depot and barraecks at Northam, us soon as material is available to complete involved an expenditure of £3,800. An the bodies An estimated amount of £28,600 amount of £100,000 has been set aside for has been provided for the erection of a railway purposes this year, of which £32,000 trolley bus garage. This has been found will be spent on the workshops and mach- necessary owing to the overtaxing of the inery, £10,000 for the purchase of new present garage space. [8 OC~TOBEhR, 1943.] 121229

In respect of electricity supplies, pro- of the loan funds set aside last year, while vision has been made for the past few years £80,000 is provided as an expenditure from for a ring main feeder cable for the metro- this year's estimate. It is evident, there- politan area. A considerable amount of fore, that the bulk of the money being set money has been expended in this connec- aside is for this particular project. Mem- tion, and it is hoped that the work witl be bers are aware of the arrangement made completed this year. In addition, the de- between the Government and the syndicate partment is converting the Cottesloe trans- which made a preliminary investigation into mission line to take a higher voltage, and the production of potash from the alunite this is anticipated to require £20,356. New deposits. The Government is finding capi- high tension switch gear for this conversion, tal to the extent of £80,500, and any moneys it is estimated, will absorb £57,713, while in addition to this sum will be treated as the connecting of the East Perth Power loans to be repaid to the Government by Station to Cottesloc will require a further the industry. Interest on these advances, £21,069. An announcement was recently plus repayment instalments, arc a charge made by the Government regarding the pro- against the profits before profits are dis- vision of a power station for the South-West, tributed. In regard to the capital provided, wherein it was pointed out that a committee the Government will, of course, take a share was waking investigations into the matter. in the profits proportionate to the capital Work has not been commenced on the con- invested. Considerable delay has been oc- struction of a now unit in the metropolitan casioned in the completion of the plant, due area because the Government is seeking the to shortage of labour and inability to ob- advice of a technical expert from the East- tain the necessary equipment. Much im- ern States as to the advisability of providing provisation had to be carried out in the cir- a 50-cycle plant. His report is awaited cumstances which exist. Members will have before any expenditure on the erection of noted in today's issue of "The West Aus- the station is incurred. tralian" an announcement by the Minister Members probably know that in this for Industrial Development to the effect that the crushing section of the plant State we have a 40-cycle plant. We is now in operation and is crushing step with standard electrical arc thus out of ore at the rate of 30 tons an hour. plants throughout Australia. The fact that The Minister pointed out that this would out of step imposes a financial we are enable reserve stocks to be built up so that burden on users of electrical equipment who the processing section could work continu- probably have to pay more for the ously when it commenced operations on the necessary to takh cunient equipment production from a station operating at 40 cycles of potash and that that section should begin treatment shortly as only one than they would have to pay if they piece of equipment was required to complete buy standard 50-cycle equip- were able to it. This equipment is expected to arrive in If it is decided to instal ment. a 60- the State within the next few days. cycle plant, then the cost involved will he considerable. The Government hopes, how- Dealing with water supply and sewerage. over, that this will be viewed by the Com- requirementfs we find that last year £75,500 monwealth Government as a post-war re- was expended for that purpose. It is esti- construction work and that financial assist- mated that £C66,900 will be required for this ance will be forthcoming. In any case if year's programme. Expenditure for last the new station is erected it will operate in year was mainly concerned with the continu- the early stages at 40 cycles, so that no im- ance of the work on the Ooldelds Water mediate expense will be imposed on con- Supply main conduit. The greater propor- sumer. tion of this year's estimate is for a similar Turning to mining development, it is esti- purpose. The work on the conduit has been mated that the requirements for this year proceeding now for some years and is near- will be £101,000, an increase on last year's ing completion. Last year sewerage and actual expenditure of £98,00- Members drainage for Perth and Premantle involved are aware that considerable activity is tak- an expenditure of £11,137. This year's esti- ing place at Lake Campion in connection mate has provided for an expenditure of with the alunite industry. The operations £5,000. In the amount expended last year there involved the expenditure of £0,1608 £5,000 was for capitalised interest on works [COUNCIL.] in progress and £2,000 for payment of out- for some time, and £1,000 to cover such standing accounts on completed works. This minor improvements to harbours and rivens year's estimate includes £2,000 for new works as may become necessary. involved in the investigation for elimination With regard to the item "Development of of gas from sewers. Sewerage house con- Agriculture, etc.," an amount of £35,500 was nections and surveys for new sewerage works expended last year. The estimate for this have also been provided for. year is £85,750, representing a considerable Under the heading "Water Supply in increase on the actual expenditure for last Agricultural Areas," £7,849 was spent ls;t year. For extensions to the abattoirs at year and £12,700 is provided this year. Last Kalgoorlie and Midland Junction £18,000 is year's expenditure included an amount of provided, as against £3,800 which was spent £:5,700 spent on the Boyup Brook water on these works last year. For the develop- supply, and the estimates this year include ment of agriculture £7,250 is provided, as ain amount of £8,000 for the continuance compared with £4,700 spent last year. This and eompletion of this work. For further e~inte includes the cost of the exploratory work in connection with the re-lining of the work being done at the Ord River. Herdsman Lake tunnel £3,000 has been set assist- aside. I may mention that the total cost of The amount expended last year on ance to industries was £6,900, including the Boyup Brook water supply is estimated £C5,000 advanced to the Albany Freezing to be £24,000, of which amount £10,000 will Extensions he provided by the Commonwealth. The Works under a hank guarantee. had to be made to the works at Albany, and water supply will serve a dual purpose. It will provide water for the flax retting mill the money was advanced by the company's bankers, on the guarantee that repayment and also for domes-tic use for the inhabitants, 'would be made in three annual instalments. of Boyup Brook and for tile employees at the mill. The works were unable to make the pay- mient from their own funds, and the Govern- Turning now to harbours and rivers, last ment met the guarantee from loan moneys. year £63,400 was the amount expended. This It is anticipated that with a return to more year the estimate is £24,500. 'Most of last normal conditions the Albany Freezing year's expenditure was incurred on account Works should prove profitable and the of the new slipway, the total cost of which is money advanced by the Government should Approximately £136,000. The Common- be repaid. wealth has undertaken to meet this cost on a9£ for £ basis, subject to the condition that Under the heading of "Sundries," the ex- the charges on the Commonwealth and the, penditure last year was £83,600, the estimate for this year being £4,100. Last year's Allied nations' vessels for the use of the slip shall not exceed £C30 Per day. This charge expenditure on the State Engineering Works will be reviewed later, however, in the light included £16,000 which provided £2,500 for new machines, £6,000 for a canteen, and of exprience in operating the slipway. Costs £6,300 for a 2 5-ton overhead travelling Of an extension to the slipway are being met entirely by the Commonwealth. crane. This year an amount of £2,100 has been provided for the State Engineering The arrangement with the Commonwealth Works, covering £800 for half the cost of a s;hould prove very satisfactory as the State laboratory-the other half will be provided has now been provided with kvery much by the Commonwealth-end £1,300 f or addi- needed equipment wvhich at present is prov- tional machinery. Last year's expenditure ing remunerative, and when the war is over, included £40,000 on A.R.P. requirements, should be of great ass istance to shipping and and an amount of £36,000 has been provided should enable us to retain work -which other- this year. Last year £25,000 was spent on wise would go elsewhere. I have already clearing the overdraft on the W.A. Meat mentioned that the estimated expenditure for Export Works, when the concern was this year on harbours and rivers is £24,500. taken over by the Government. The bank Of this amount £10,000 has been set aside overdraft was cleared, and the overdraft for additions at Bunbury, £3,900 for the added to the capital debt of the -works to ecomPletion of protection to Babbage Island the Treasury. This year £8,000 has, been at Carnarvon, £5,000 for North Quay exten- provided for the meat works for the com- sions, on which work has been proceeding pletion of additional cold storage space. [8 Oc'roaxa, 1943.] 128128

That covers the main items on this year's THE HONOEA$Y JMfSTBR: In reply Loan Estimates. Last year, when introduc- to Mr. Hall I may say that even now there ing the Loan Bill, I remarked that the is a fairly large number of men, married amount then sought, namely, £310,000, was and single, who have had bouts of sickness the lowest since responsible government was which exhausted their small reserves and first established in Western Australia. The forced them to apply for relief. There is amount covered by this Bill-£350,000-is. close co-operation between the Perth and comparatively small. In the circumstances Fremantle Hospitals and the Department of the Government has endeavoured to spread Employment with regard to such eases. the amount over those undertakings which Sometimes the men are in hospital for two. will prove most useful to the development or three months, and they come out of hos- of the State in the post-war period. The pital penniless and have to be supported. Premier stated, when introducing the Re- venue Estimates, that this land of ours was HON. J. CORNELL (South): Mr. Hal held in trust for those engaged in its defence. is to be commended for directing the atten. The Joan programme which has been set by tion of members, first of all, to the lateness. the Government has therefore been designed of presentation of the Auditor General's to ensure as far as is practicable that when report. However, that is a matter over the men and women in the Fighting Ser- ,which the Government has no control. The vices return to civilian life, useful occupa- Audit Act specifically lays down that the tions will be available for them. I move- Auditor General shall present his report That the Bill be now read a second time. to Parliament, the object being to let Par- liament have the benefit of the Auditor Gene- HON. E. H. H. HALL (Central) : Would ral's opinions on the disposition of moneys I be in order, Mr. President, in seeking appropriated by Parliament and spent by some information on this Bill from the re- the departments. If the report, which is up port of the Auditor General, which has been to the 30th June last, is to be brought down laid on the Table of the Houset here at 11 o'clock p.m. on the day of the termination of the session, it becomes practi- The PRESIDENT: Certainly. cally useless. After the general election Parliament Hon. E. H. H. HALL: I enter my pro- will not meet again until a date now unknown. test, and I do so with full appreciation of No-one is likely to get up in the sunny difficulties :confronting the de- the next Parliament for the purpose of db.- cussing shortcomings of the last Parliament- partments owing to the lack of manpower I do not see the necessity for any expendi- arising from tbe war. I must, however, pro- ture on unemployment relief. I belong t&. test against the lateness of the date at which an organisation the Auditor General's report has been made which includes a very impe- available to members. Seeing that the Gov- cunious section of this community of ours, and which wvas a constant worry to the ernment was aware some weeks ago that the or- ganisation until the war got into its stride. session would end so soon, an endeavour One of our worries might have been made to let us have this used to be to find work. and to assist those for whom we could not 71 most important report earlier. On page find work. That feature has disappeared the Auditor General states- long ago, and we have practically no re- A Vote for ''Unemployment Relief" has quests now for assistance. appeared on the Revenue Fund Estimates for the past 12 years. The Honorary Minister: You are lucky, or else you are wrong! Then follons a statement of annual expen- Ron. J. CORNELL: diture on this account, ranging from We are neither- lucky nor wrong. £643,996 3s. Id. in 1931-32 to £3,817 11s. 3d. in 1942-43. 1 am wondering how the The Honorary Minister: You send men to, amount of £E3,817 became necessary. Is it us to find work for them. The R.S.L. sends not most peculiar that at a time when there us a lot of problem cases and asks as to is so much work that sum should be spent- find them employment. as it has been spent T consider that it is Hon. J1.CORNELL: I speak from know- competent for a membcr to ask such a ques- ledge, being a member of the organisation. tion. The bed tickets and meat tickets issued in 1232 2232[COUNCIL.] these days should come under the heading of cases has been considered by the Govern- providing for the unemployed. ment on two or three occasions within the The Chief Secretary: Why not complain. last 12 months. It has been decided that to the Auditor General? there is really no justification for it. The Hon. J1. CORNELL: If I had had the following are the reasons given for there opportunity earlier in the piece, I would being no justification: want to know why these figures are included 1. Petrol users, in addition to paying the in the Auditor General's report. They are same license fees as the gas-producer users also provide the whole of the funds from which of no value at all. My chief trouble is as to the main roads are provided and which are what value this report can be now as regards used by both classes of vehicles. any criticism of it or reference to it in this 2. To conserve the revenues of the local House. There is no value in it, because of authorities, it being considered that they could not afford to suffer any further reduction in the lateness of its presentation. revenue at the present time. THE CHIEF SECRETARY (in reply): I I shall deal with the first point. It will be am surprised at the arguments of members. appreciated that the roads of this country They well know that the Auditor General have been built and maintained out of the and his staff are working at full pressure, petrol tax, in addition to which there are not only on State but also on Commonwealth the license fees which have been received by work. This report is submitted a little ear- the local authorities, so that if the license lier than usual. The Auditor General is not fees are reduced on these vehicles, an addi- to know if there is to be an -election and tional burden will be thrown on the owners that, as a consequence, Parliament will close of petrol-driven vehicles. Then again, in before the customary time. On top of regard to the revenue of local authorities, that, complaints were made about the way it must be admitted that in numbers of eases the items-- licenses fees and so on have been the main Hon, J. Cornell: It conveys nothing. sources of revenue of many of these coun- The CHIEF SECRETARY- It conveys try authorities. If we reduce that revenue to me just what has happened to that money, by the amount suggested here, we will make and that is all we need worry about. I em it harder for them to carry on. The gas- afraid the hon. member is looking for some- producer owner contributes nothing towards thing about which to argue. He has raised a the cost of construction and maintenance of -very weak point main roads, and nothing towards a substan- Question put and passed. tial mileage of other roads. Roads of the Bill read a second time. present high standard in this State could never have been built had it not been for the large contributions made by owners of In Commit tee, etc, petrol-driven vehicles. Bill passed through Committee without de- Hon. G. B. Wood: Don't forget that the bate, reported without amendment and the gas-producer vehicles use some petrol, and -report adopted. two years ago they used nothing hut petrol. Bill read a third time and passed. The CHIEF SECRETARY: Yes, but while the gas-producer is being used, no BIL-TRAFFIC ACT AMENDMENT petrol is being consumed and, as a result, ACT, 1941, AMEN4DMENT. the owner is not contributing to the fund Second Reading. from which the roads arc built. Hon. G. B. Wood: I will reply to that Debate resumed from the 0th October. point later. THE CHIEF SECRETARY [1151: This Hon. J. Cornell: It has cost the gas-pro- Bill has one object in view, namely, to re- ducer owner £70 or £80 for the privilege of duce the license fees on motor vehicles pro- using a gas-producer. pelled with the aid of gas-producers. The The CHIEF SECRETARY: Yes, but he argument put forward seemed a very good is not contributing to the fund out of which one while we were listening to it, hut un- the roads are built and maintained. Those fortunately there is another aide to the ques- are the two cogent reasons that influenced tion. I am sorry I cannot support the hon. the Government in deciding that the reduc- member in his endeavour to get this reduc- tion is not justified at this time. It really tion. The subject of a reduction in these does not affect the finances of the Govern- [8 Ocroaza, 1943.] 123323

meat, but those of local authorities. In the no good gas-producers; they all bring about metropolitan area, 222/i per cent, of the wear and tear on the motors! The owners traffic fees received go towards main roads of gas-producers have a lot to put up with. in the metropolitan area. Outside of that They adversely affect the depreciation of the whole of the revenue goes to the local the car and caus extra expense. authorities. I am given to understand that Hon. 0. W. Miles: They will be scrapped while it has been said that the local authori- after the war. ties' association was in favour of this Bill, at the same time there is a clear division Hon. W. R. HALL: They will be cut oft among the local authorities on the subject. 'with a hack-saw as soon as the war ends. A person with a gas-producer vehicle will never Hon. G. B. Wood: The majority wants it. get the advantage to which he is entitled3 to, The CHIEF SECRETARY: Am I right my way of thinking, simply by the saving of when I say that that majority is a very 25 per cent, of the license fee. AlthoughL small one? 1 have no figures, hut I have the Road Board Association and the indivi- been informed that it is a small majority, dual boards may not have given the question In view of that fact, we should be very a lot of consideration, it was approved at careful before agreeing to the proposal con- a recent road board conference. I ace no rea- tained in the Bill. son why a car with a gas-producer should not be placed on the same footing as a car with- HON. W. R. HTALL (North-East):- After out one. It is true that a man with a gas-, giving due consideration to this measure, I producer car can run his vehicle without any have decided to support it. I have gono limitation as to mileage, whereas a man re- into it fairly thoroughly, and tackled both stricted to a petrol consumption of two to sides of the question-the position regarding four gallons a month can run a maximumt local authorities on the one hand and the of 80 miles a month, or roughly 1,000 miles traffic fees on the other. I do not altogether a year. Thus there is no comparison between agree with the Chief Secretary that the roads the mileages that the two cars might do. are going to suffer, or that the owners of vehicles with gas-producers do not contri- Tb0 Bill is reasonable and will have my bute to the maintenance of roads to any support. I believe that the greatest suffer- great extent. They do. Those with vehicles ers amongst the local authorities will be. fitted with gas-producers pay full license those in the metropolitan area. The pro- fees whilst those ownng cars not fitted with portion of gas-producer to petrol-driven ve- gas-producers, contribute three parts of hicles in the country is small; I believe in their license fees. There are two or three the metropolitan area it is a good deal points which could he raised in opposition higher. If the Bill will not alter the finan- to the Bill. Gas-producer vehicles wear out cial side much, as the Chief Secretary said, I the roads to a greater extent than do the can see no reason f or not bringing the per- other vehicles because of their extra weight son with a gas-producer on to the same foot- amounting to 3 cwt. or 4 cwt. ing as the other. Local authorities are accu- mulating more money than ever they had, Hon. G. B. Wood: The Road Board Con- because they have been instructed not to. ference said they did not wear the roads out, proceed with any unessential road work, and because they travel more slowly. it is a question whether the ratepayers are- Hon. W. R. HALL: They do create a little not entitled to some benefit. They might rea- extra wear on roads, because it is quite sonably ask that the money be spent in other noticeable that the rear tyres of gas-pro- ways, or that they he given a reduction of ducer vehicles wear twice as fast as those on rates or motor license fees. vehicles without that weight. In spite of these considerations, I agree that the owners The Honorary Minister: All that money of gas-producer vehicles should be put on will he wanted after the war is over. the same basis as those without gas-pro- Ron. W. R. HALL: That is so, but I ducers because, after all, a person who has think the ratepayers could make out a good- been forced to help the war effort by con- case for consideration. If I had my way serving petrol has been put to the additional motor owners using two to four gallons of- cost of £40 to £150 for a decent gas-pro- Petrol a. month would be paying very little. ducer. As a matter of fact, I know of by way of motor license fees. 1234 1234COTJNCIL.]

HON. G. B. WOOD (East-in reply): I Secretary said that it had been agreed to .am amazed at the arguments used by the by only a small majority. Does he not Chief Secretary in opposing the 13111. In believe in majority rule? 1941 the argument used against a reduction The Chief Secretary: I used that argu- in license fees for vehicles fitted with gas- ment to show that the boards were not producers was that they used the roads unanimous. more than petrol-driven ears did. Because Hon. 0. B. WOOD: Members of two road that argument has gone by the hoard, an- boards said to ma, "The man with a gas- other one has been dug up, namely, that the. producer should not pay any license fee at users of gas-producers are not paying the all because he suffers in another way." I petrol tax. The Minister for Works, speak- agree with that contention. Such a man ing in another place on the 26th August, has to pay about £100 to instLal a gas-pro- 1941, said- ducer, and I believe on that account he is As the use of the road had been greatly re- stricted because of the introduction of petrol entitled to consideration. rationing by the Federal Government, motor- Hon. L. B. Bolton: I was afraid to speak. ists felt justified in asking for some reduction about gas-producers. in their motoring costs. Ron. G. B. WOOD: The hon. member That applies today. The motor with a gas- would say that the owner of a gas-producer producer does not use the roads any more car should not pay any license fees at all. than the petrol-driven vehicle did before the Hon. L. B. Boltoij: I would not use one petrol restrictions were imposed. The use if I could possibly help it. made of the roads all depends upon the con- Question put and passed. dition of the tyres-that and nothing else. As regards the upkeep of roads, the Chief Bill read a second time. Secretary said that the motorists using 7n Committee, etc. petrol had been responsible for improv- ing all our main roads. But all our Bill passed through Committee without main roads were improved two years debate, reported without amendment and the report adopted. ago, and at that time there were very few gas-producer vehicles on the road. In 1941 Bill read a third time and transmitted to there were only 1,300. At that time the the Assembly. roads were made and practically nothing is Sitting suspended from 11.26 p.m. to being spent on maintenance. So that argu- 12.35 m~m. mnent falls to the ground. Today many people would not instal a gas-producer on BIELL-OOMPANIP. their motors because the condition of their lyres would not warrant it. The Chief Assembly's Message. Secretary also referred to the loss of revenue Message from the Assembly received and that road boards would suffer. Many road -read notifying that it had agreed to amend- boards have put £1,000 or more into war ments Nos. 1, 2, 4 to 22, 25 to 27 made by bonds because the money could not be spent the Council and had disagreed to Nos. 3, 23 on roads on account of the lack of man- and 24. power. The Chief Secretary: Every penny of it In Committee. will he needed later on. Hon. J. Cornell in the Chair; the Chief Hon. G. B. WOOD: Yes, after the war. Secretary in charge of the Bill. Local authorities cannot spend the money No. 3. Clause 24-Add a subelause after now, although the roads are in a very bad Suhelause (2) to stand as Suhelause (3) as state. This applies to roads at Northam, follows:- York, Beverley, and in fact, throughout the (8) (a) The Registrar shall not register a country where the road surfaces have not company- been bituniinised. What the military (i) unless a promoter or proposed vehicles have not done to the roads, the rain director of the company makes appli- cation in writing, in the prescribed has, and we cannot repair them. If the road form and containing the prescribed boards had felt concern, would not the con- particulars, to the Registrar for regis- ference have opposed this matterI The Chief tration of the company; and [78 Oeronaa, 1943.] 123523

(ii) unless at least twenty-one days (h) The caveator may withdraw his caveat before the proposed date of applics- at any time by giving notice to the dion a notice of intention, in the pre- Registrar that he withdraws such scribed form and containing the pre- caveat. scribed particulars, to apply for (i) If after the terms and conditions afore- registration of the company, signed said are complied with the caveator by such promoter or proposed direc- refuses to withdraw his caveat or to tor, has been lodged with the Regis- sign an applicatioa for the withdrawal trar and a copy of such notice adver- thereof, the promoter or proposed tised in a daily morning newspaper director or any other person interested published in Perth and generally cir- in the registration of the proposed culating throughout Western Austra- company may summon the eaveator lia and in a newspaper generally cir- before a judge as hereinbeforo men- culating in the locality, if other than tioned to show cause why the caveat Perth, where the registered office of should not be removed, and the judge the company is proposed to be situ- may order the removal of such caveat; ated; and and upon the service of the order (iii) unless a caveat has not been upon the Registrar he shall remove lodged with the Registrar before the the caveat therein mentioned. proposed date of application or unless, ()Upon the hearing of any summons under if any caveat has been so lodged, the this subsection the judge may make same has been removed or withdrawn. such order as to costs as ha thinks (b) The Registrar shall cause a book to be fit; ahd any person who enters a kept wherein every such notice shall caveat without reasonable cause for be entered and such book and the considering that the registration of notice therein shall be open to the in- such company would he likely to de- spection of any person upon payment feat, hinder or delay any claim of the of a fee of two shilliags. caveator against any person, and any (c) Any person may at any time before the caveator refusing without reasonable proposed date of spplication, on pay- cause to sign an applicntion for with- ment of the prescribed fee, enter a drawal of his caveat after the terms caveat against the registration of the and conditions aforesaid have been company as being likely to hinder, complied with, shall be liable to pay defeat or delay any claim of the the promoter or proposed director or eaveator against any person. other person interested in the regis- (d) Every such caveat shall be in the pre- tration of the proposed company scribed form or to the like effect. aforesaid (As the ease may be) such (e) Upon the receipt of any. such caveat sum by way of compensation as the the Registrar shall cause at copy there- judge upon the hearing of any such of to be posted to the promoter or summons deems just and orders. proposed director giving notice of in- (k) The registration of a company and the tention to apply as aforesaid. issue of a certificate of incorporation (f) Such promoter or proposed director or in respect thereof shall not be deemed any other person interested in the re- insufficient or invalid by reason only gistration of the proposed company that in any such application or caveat mnay summon the caveator before a or in the notice of intention aforesaid judge in chambers to show cause why there is an omission or incorrect or in- the caveat should not he removed; sufficient description or misdeseription and upon the return of such summons in respect to the particulars required the judge shall hear and determine by law to be contained in such appli- whether the registration of the pro- cation, caveat or notice of intention, posed company is likely to hinder, de- if the court judge or justice before feat or delay any claim of the which or whom the validity of such caveator against any person, and in registration, application, caveat or such determination may direct upon notice comes into question is satisfied what terms and conditions the regis- that such omission or incorrect or in- tration of the company can be pro- sufficient description or misdescription. ceeded with. was accidental and due to inadvert- (g) If on the hearing of such summons it ence And was not of such a nature appears that the registration of the as to he liable to mislead or deceive. proposed company is likely to hinder, The CHAIRMAN: This is the longest defeat or delay nny claim of the caveator against any person, the judge amendment we made, The Assembly's reason may make an order directing that the for disageeing is-- company shall not be registered until There has not been sufficient time to con- the said terms and conditions are com- aider this, and the commercial community has plied with; hut if it does not so ap- had no opportunity, of being heard as to its pear, the judge may order the caveat inclusion. to be removed, and upon the service of the order on the Registrar he shall The CHIEF SECRETARY: This amend- remove the caveat therein mentioned. ment is designed to prevent firms from formn- 1236 1236COUNCU4)

ing companies and transferring assets, and The CHAIRMAN: The Assembly's rea- so leaving creditors in the lurch. It was re- son for disagreeing irs- commended by the Registrar of Companiesi This has been a provision in the law for of Victoria. many years and is considered to be a protec- tion to shareholders. Hon. H. S. W. Parker: I suppose we carn bring in an amendment next year if neces- The CHIEF SECRETARY: The clause sary. provides that where a foreign company pro- poses to pay a dividend it shall notify the I move- The CHIEF SECRETARY: shareholder. I understand that this provi- That the amendment be not insisted on. sion has been in the Act for many years and Question put and passed; the Council's there has been no complaint. amendment not insisted on. Hon. H. S. W. Parker: It has not been No. 23. Clause 334-Insert a new sub- carried out. clause after Subelause (3) as follows:- The CHIEF SECRETARY: I am not in (4) This section shall not apply to any com- a position to say that. I move-- pany which, by the law in force in the coun- That the amendment be not insisted on. try or State where it was incorporated, is not required to file with a registrar its balance Hon. H. S. W, PARKER: The Swan sheet. Brewery has hundreds of shareholders in this The CHAIRMAN: The Assembly's reason State and I act for some of them, I have for disagreeing is- never been notified when it is intended to. It is considered that in accordance with the declare a dividend, though I have been in- general principle of the Bill, all foreign corn- formed that a meeting was to be held in Mel- panies should file a balance sheet. bourne when a motion for the payment of The CHIEF SECRETARY: I understand a dividend would be submitted. On the day that something like a hundred amendments the dividend is declared in Melbourne, how- have been submitted by interested parties. ever, the cheques are posted in Perth. Under They will be considered at a later date, and the clause that could not be done. This pro- there is no reason why this one should not vision has never been observed and never be included. I move- will be. That the amendment be not insisted on. The CHIEF SECRETARY: The clause- Hun. C. F. BAXTER: The -reason given was included for the protection of the by the Assembly for disagreeing shows that company and to ensure that the shareholder the amendment was not understood. To re- entitled to the dividend receives it. If the quire the filing of a balance sheet merely shareholder has been notified and requests the door for unscrupulous persons that the dividend be forwarded to him, he opens takes the responsibility and has no redress of affairs to which they to gain a knowledge against the company in the event of its be- The amendment is very are not entitled. ing lost. important. is Hon. H. S. W. Parker: The company The CHIEF SECRETARY: The object would not be relieved of responsibility in. file a bal- that the companies affected should that event. ance sheet. I am wondering whether all com- panies, wherever registered, should not file Question put and passed; the Council's a balance sheet. Why should not a foreign amendment not insisted on. company do so? Resolutions reported, the report adopted Hon. H. S. W. PARKER: We want to and a message accordingly returned to the Assembly. bring our law into line with those of the other States, which provide that when it is not necesary to file a balance sheet in the BILL-LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL (WAR country where the company is domiciled, it TIM) ELECTORAL need not be filed in any place where the com.- Assembly's Bequest for Conference. pany is registered. What is the good of fil- Message from the Assembly received and ing all these balance sheets? read requesting a conference on the amend- Question put and negatived; the Council's ments insisted on by the Council, and noti- amendment insisted on. fying that at such conference the Assembly No. 24. Clause 357-Delete this clause. would be represented by three managers. [8 Oeronn, 1043.]1s 1237

THE CHIEF SECRETARY [12.57): 1 including the Word " 4tenant"r in line 25, ad .move- insert the following in lieu:- That the Assembly 'a request for a confer- 1dA. (1) A person shall not refuse to ence be agreed to, that the managers for the let a dwelling-house to any person on the Council be Hon. J. Cornell, Hon. a. r. Baxter ground that it is intended that a child shall, and the mover, and that the conference be live in the dwelling-house: held in the Chief Secretary 's room forthwith. Provided that the court may on applica- Question put and passed, and a message tion by the lessor if satisfied that the lessee has failed to take reasonable and proper accordingly returned to the Assembly. care of the premises or of any goods and chattels leased therewith make an order for BflL-IRCREA8E OF ENT (WAR RE- the recovery by the lessor of possession of STRICTIONS) ACT AMENDMENT. the premises and any goods and chattels Assembly's Request for Confer-ene. leased therewith and for the ejectmnent of Message from the Assembly received and the lessee therefrom. rend requesting a conference on the amend- (2) In any prosecution for an offence ments insisted on by the Council3 and noti- arising under this section where it is proved fying that at such conference the Assembly that a person has refused to let a dwelling- house to any person it shall lie upon the would be represented by three managers. first-mentioned person to prove that the re- fusal was for some reason other than that TE HONORARY MINISTER [1.2]: I it was intended that a child should live in move-- the dwelling-house. That the Assembly's request for a confer- (3) A person shall not state his intention ence be agreed to, that the managers for the by advertisement or otherwise not to let a Council be Hon. H. S. W. Parker, Hon. W. J. dwelling-house to any person if it is intended Mann, and the mover, and that the conference that a child shall live in the dwelling-house. 'be held in Mr. Speaker's room forthwith. Strike out all the words after ''him" in line Question put and passed, and a message 31 down to and including the word "'land" in line 39, and substitute the following- accordingly returned to the Assembly. Where the land was leased on the thirty- Sitting suspended from 1.5 to 2.55 as. first day of August, one thousand nine hun- dred anid thirty-nine such record shall show BILLr-LEGISLAIVE COUNICIL (WAR the rent and the name of the lessee at that TIME) ELECTORAL date. Where the land was first leased alter the thirty-first day of August one thousand Conference Managers' Report. nine hundred and thirty-nine such record shall show the rent when such land was first THE CHIEF SECRETARY [2.55]: 1 leased and the niame of the lessee at that beg to report that the conference managers time. met in conference on the Bill and reached the following agreement- Imove-- Re-insert the words "or noni-commissioned" That the report be adopted. where those words were deleted in Clause 8 (a), lines 28 and 29, page 4; Clause 10, (2), Question put and passed, and a message lilies 4 and 5, page 8; Clause 15, (b), lines accordingly returned to the Assembly. 24 and 25, page 7. Imove- BILL--LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL (WARL That the report be adopted. TIME) ELECTORAL, Question put and passed, and a message Assembly's Further Message. accordingly returned to the Assembly. 3 a.m. Message from the Assembly received and read notifying that it had agreed to the con- JBILL-INC REAS OF RENT (WAR RE- ference managers' report. STRICTIONS) ACT AMENDMENT. Conference Managers' Report. ]BILL-INCREASE Or BENT (WAR RE- THEI HONORARY MINISTER [2.58]:-1 STRICTIONS) ACT AMENDMENT. beg to report that the conference managers Assembly's Further Message. met in conference on the Bill and -reached the following agreement- Message from the Assembly received and Clause 5. Strike out all the words after the read notifying that it had agreed to the word "follow" in line 2, page 3, down to and conference managers' report. 1238 1238[COUNCIL.]

DILL--COMPANIES. ous election campaign, I can only say that Assembly's Further Message. if we do not all return to this Chamber it Message from the Assembly received and will be accepted as the luck of the game and read notifying that it no longer disagreed mn accordance with the fortunes of war. In to amendment No. 23 insisted on by the any event I extend to all members my very Council. best wishes. This will possibly he my only opportunity on the floor of the House this, COMPLIMENTARY REMARKS. year of extending to members good wishes for the next festive season. I trust that they THE CHIEF SECRETARY [3.5]: That will have a full measure of enjoyment and concludes the business for the session. It has happiness within the limitations imposed by been a short but a busy one, dominated by a existing circumstances. desire on the part of all members to get things done. Once again it is my privilege HON. C. IF,BAXTER (East): Following to extend to you, Mir. President, on behalf the Chief Secretary's remarks, I desire to. of members and myself, our very best wishes say that the session has been short but busy, and thanks for the many kindnesses which and has been noteworthy for the unity of you have shown to us nil through the session, purpose displayed by members regarding the You have presided over our deliberations for end we all desire-good legislation. It ha-, very many years in a manner best calculated been marked also by members' sympathetic to maintain the traditions of your high of- feeling for each other's views concern- fice, and in that respect this session has been ing legislation with which we have dealt. To no exception. I join with all members in you, 2%r. President, thanks are due for the the hope that you will continue in that office very able manner in which you have occupied for many years to conic, and that you will your position. This, needless to say, has enjoy the very best of health in the future. been usual with you over a long period of The Chairman of Committees and his depu- years. Your considerate treatment of mem- ties have also earned our gratitude for the hers, more particularly of myself at times, manner in which they have helped with our shows us that we have a President who is discussions in committee. sympathetic towards us and ever ready to. To the Clerk of the Council (Mr. Leake) render us assistance and advice. I am indeed and the Usher of the Black Rod (Mr. grateful to you, Sir. I trust that your health Sparks) we are once again indebted for the may continue as it has been for some years good work they have performed. Our thanks past, and that you will long occupy the are due also to the other officers of Parlia- Chair for the benefit of the entire House. ment for the assistance they have given us. To Mr. Cornell, as Chairman of Commit- Our very best thanks are also due to the tees we owe, as always, a debt of gratitude Chief "Hansard" Reporter and his staff. not only for the ability with which he con- Even though the session has been a abort one, ducts the work of Committees, but also for they have experienced difficulties and embar- the assistance he renders outside the ordinary rasswents. These have been surmounted by duties of the Chairman of Committees. He them without complaint. is one of the members who are masters of For myself, I thank you, Mn. President, the Standing Orders, and he is well ac- and members generally for the consideration quainted with legislation. That knowledge. and assistance that have been extended to Mr. Cornell being in the position of Chair- mae at all times. I greatly appreciate the mant of Committees, is of great assistance many kindnesses shown to me. Before we and value to each and every member of the meet again we may possibly have gone before Chamber. His assistant Chairmen have our electors. rendered good service, which is greatly ap- lion. J1. Cornell: Do not be downhearted! preciated. Mr. Leake, as customary, has car- The CHIEF SECRETARY: I am not ried out his duties with marked ability. His downhearted, but am merely referring to a training aptly fits him for the position he possibility. I extend to members my very holds, and he is never wanting when his best wishes and I sincerely hope that be. help, outside his official duties, is asked for. tween now and that period, we shall all ezljoy We all feel that he has been of great assist- the best of health. Although we may be en- ance on questions that puzzled members, not gaged in the near future in a rather strenu- only regarding the procedure of the House [8 OCTOBmR, 1943.1 131239

but also as to peculiar legal points which he our best to give satisfaction. I think I can has been able to solve on practically all occa- say of my three colleagues, as I cant say sions. Mr. Sparks, as always, has attended of myself, that we have had no more happy to his duty assiduously and in a very pleas- experience than to go into the Chamber an'd ant manner; and every credit is due to him. sit between our co-digger-clerks. They have To the "Hansard" staff I do not think I been an inspiration and of great assistance can adequately express my thank& for the to us. I want to thank you, Sir, for the as- very able manner in which it has carried out sistance you have given me as Chairman of its duties. It is indeed pleasant to pick up Committees and as a member of this House. 'the typewritten report of one's speech and I want also to thank the Clerk of Records find that one has to make practically no cor- and all the members of the staff, down to rections in it. On the other hand, there are the little messenger boys. During my 32 necessary corrections which the "Hansard" years in tbis House, I have had nothing but staff makes in one's speeches. It is quite a kindness from all. I want to thank "Ilan- common occurrence to receive a typewrntten sard" for what it has done for me. The Chief report of one's uttrances, glance at it, and Secretary struck a discordant note when be mark it "O.K." We feel that Parliament referred to ten of us, those ten who are con- -oves a great debt of gratitude to such a stitutionally forced to stand for election. -"Hansard" staff as we have at the present However, war does bring about some bene- time. I especially thank members for the fits, and it brought two years of extra Par- kindness extended to me, particularly when liamentary life to us, whatever may happen I have attended the House and have been in- next May. I hope that when the election disposed. I am glad to say that during the takes place in May, history will not repeat last four or five weeks I have enjoyed a itself to the extent that some of us will fail period of my usual health. I trust that when to return! 1 do not see that we can afford the House meets. again there will be no to lose one of our number, because I think friends missing among the members who are the cream of the House is going up for elec- going out to seek the suffrages of the elec- tion. The number includes the Chief Secre- tors once more. It is only to be expected tary, the Chairman of Committees, Mr. Drew, that when men arc working together session Mr. Bolton, and men who have held high of- after session at friendly spirit should be en- flee. The worst I can wish them is that gendered. they may all come back again. In conclu- No matter what our polities may be, any sion, I want to make a reference to two political bitterness is kept by each and every people in whom I have taken an interest since one within limits. Some people do not ap- they catered the Services. I think the House pear to understand that men can he politi- will join with me in wishing success to Mr. cally opposed very strongly to other men Roberts, who was formerly our Clerk of while bonds of friendship exist between Records, left this State as a sergeant and is them. Strong political feelings exhibited now a major, and Mr. Power;, who, after within the walls of this Chamber are never succeeding Mr. Roberts, subsequently joined displayed outside its walls. The type of the Air Force. We wish them every sue., member in our Legislative Council does not cess and hope to see them back with us exist in Parliaments at a distance from here. again. I sincerely trust the same spirit will always continue among us. Let me add that I hope HON. V. HAMERSLEY (East) : As an all those who go out to the electors in the old member of this House, I desire to join early part of next year will be successful, in the felicitations to yourself, Sir, and to and that we shall have the benefit of their express my gratitude for your guidance. I friendship and ability in rendering service also wish to thank the Chief Secretary and to the State in which we have so much faith. the Honorary Minister for the admirable I have pleasure in btipporting the remarks way in which they have conducted the busi- that have fallen from the Chief Secretary. ness of the House. I desire to join in the expression of goodwill and thanks to the HON. J. CORNELL (South): I have to officers of the House, the "Hansard" re- thank the Chief Secretary, on behalf of my porters and the staff generally, and to ex- team-mates and myself, for the nice things press my appreciation of the kindly feel- said ahout us. We have always tried to do ings and the happy spirit that have existed 1240 1240(ASSEMBLY.] amongst us throughout the session. Soe system of government with other systems of members will have to face the electors next government, both of the past and of the year. I wish them the best of luck. I hope present, systems of autocracy, fascism, all members will be able to enjoy the recess nazism and other forms, I think the parlia- and return to the House with fresh vigour, nmentary system with all its defects is the greater inspiration and new ideas, and that heat that so far has been devised by the wit 'we shall be able to carry on 'with the same of man. I thank you all again for the kind- routine that we have followed in this Chamn- ness you have always extended to me a her in the past with such great benefit to the for the assistance you have given me on country. I wish again to express my grati- every possible occasion. I hope that when tude to all memhers for their kindness to we meet again we shall see here each of the me personally. 10 members who go to meet the electors.

TE PRESIDENT: At the conclusion of ADJOURMIENT-SPCIAL. this session and what is also the close, or nearly the close, of the life of this Parlia- THE CHIEF SECRETARY: I move-- ment-the longest of the 17 Parliaments That the House at its rising adjourn to a that have guided the destinies of Western date to he fixed. Australia-I should like to express my sin- Question put and passed. cere gratitude to members generally for the House adjourned at 3.29 a.m. (Saturday). help they have invariably given me, one and alt, in my desire to have the affairs of this Chamber conducted effectively, in good order and with proper decorum. I feel 2.egtslative Heeocinblp. that all members are good friends of mine and I make no secret of the fact that as Friday, 8th October, 1943. regards the retiring members, for one and all of whom I have a high respect, if I were TsaR Auditor Gleneral's report...... 1241f qualified to vote in the ten provinces of this Questions: Water 5IuppUCS,as to Mt. Barker district Prop sl 9...... 1241 State I would vote for the return of each of E;atsce AItration, as to employment permits 1241 them. Child Welfarm a=~Prosed Council, ec&. 1241 In expressing my gratitude to mems- South m bus 0,"to stoppIng places, Se. 1241 hers generally for the help they have in- Petrol, as to trafficking In ration ticketa.....1242 Trade umlen funids, as to defalcation che ... 12§2 variably given me, I would also like to say Log tinmber, am to road-damnage during transport 1242 that I feel particularly grateful to the Chief Motions: State forests. to revoke dedication.....1248 Elis Increase of Rtent .(War Restrictions) Act Secretary, the Honorary Minister, the Amendment Council's amendments...... 24$ Council's message...... 1276 Chairman of Committees, the Deputy Chair- Assemby's request for Conference.....1276 men of Committees, the officers of the Councils further messags, Conlerence nuf&report...... 1284 House, the "Hansard" staff and the re- Apounial-8nle al...... 1257 corders up aloft-the gentlemen of the State QGovernmnent Insurance Office Act Amend- Press. Of the complimentary remarks made ment, returned...... nea Enter Vehicle (Tir Party Inrane), returned 1263 regarding others than myself, I endorse CoDunci amenmnts...... 1267 every word; and as to the pleasant things Compe,freturnked...... 1268 Cucil's amendments...... 1268 that have been said concerning myself, if Councl'smsg 1285 LisativeCni er, ime) Electoral, Co.. I deserve them, I can only say it is due en- cilis amendments...... - 1264 tirely to the assistance that has been rend- Councls' message ... ,...... 1276 Assembly's request for conference...... 1277 ered to me by all with whom I have been Council.s further message...... 1284 Conferenc mUager's report ...... 21284 associated in discharging the duties of my Council's nmssa...... 1285 Educaton Act Amndment, returned . 1267 office. loan, £350,000. returned...... 1276 There are many critics today of Parlia- Traffic Act Amendmnent Act 041 Amendlmemt, IR.. 29., defeated ...... 1277 ment and of parliamentarians. Those critics Resolutlo: Hala gauge uniformity, Port FIrs- are usually men who know v-cry little indeed Broken Hi line Council's message .. 1264, 1277 State Foreets. Council's message -16 about the working of Parliament and do Annual Estimates 1048-44;. Votes en1tm icre.248 Corajoittee of Ways and Means...... 1287 not know parliamentarians as we do. State Trading Concerns EstImates, 1048-44.....1257 There is no member of Parliament who Complnientary remarks 1286 Adjournent, special...... 1287 would venture to say that Parliament as an instrument of government is perfect. There is room for considerable improvement. The SPEAKER took the Chair at 4.30 But when we compare the parliamentary p.m. and read prayers.