CANADA 2nd SESSION 35th PARLIAMENT VOLUME 135 NUMBER 32 OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Tuesday, June 18, 1996 THE HONOURABLE GILDAS L. MOLGAT SPEAKER CONTENTS (Daily index of proceedings appears at back of this issue.) Debates: Victoria Building, Room 407, Tel. 996-0397 Published by the Senate Available from Canada Communication Group — Publishing, Public Works and Government Services Canada, Ottawa K1A 0S9, at $1.75 per copy or $158 per year. Also available on the Internet: http://www.parl.gc.ca 700 THE SENATE Tuesday, June 18, 1996 The Senate met at 2:00 p.m., the Speaker in the Chair. the Conservative candidates. This exercise is most often performed to demonstrate that Liberals should have been Prayers. defeated at the polls, and that it was only a split on the right that allowed the Liberal candidate to walk up the middle. VISITORS IN THE GALLERY The implication is that small “l” liberalism has been soundly The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I should like to trounced by the electors. The conclusion drawn is that the draw your attention to a distinguished parliamentary delegation formula for success in the next general election is to appeal to the from Romania in our gallery. The delegation is led by right and to adopt right-wing policies. On the face of it, I find Professor Oliviu Gherman, the President of the Senate, this analysis weak. Witness the Reform Party which, despite its accompanied by Madam Gherman, Senator Cancescu, recent convention boost, came a distant fourth in the poll, and Senator Secara, Senator Popa and Senator Sava, and His whose candidate will lose his deposit. Excellency the Chargé d’Affaires for Romania. We welcome you to the Senate of Canada. However, for the sake of argument, let us accept the methodology of these doomsayers. Why is it that I have never heard those same commentators perform the same augury with those votes cast for the Liberals and the NDP? I think this exercise would demonstrate that the majority of Canadians in SENATOR’S STATEMENT almost every riding are liberal in their thinking, ONTARIO Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear! RESULTS OF BY-ELECTION IN HAMILTON EAST— An Hon. Senator: Say it again; they did not hear you! CONGRATULATIONS TO SHEILA COPPS Senator Milne: Let us examine Hamilton East at this point. Hon. Lorna Milne: Honourable senators, I should like to The preliminary numbers I have here indicate that the vote broke draw the attention of the Senate to the results of the by-election down as follows: Liberal, 46 per cent; NDP, 26 per cent; in Hamilton East last night. Conservative, 14 per cent; and Reform, 10 per cent. If we formulate that mystical number which the commentators use to Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear! demonstrate Canadians’ desire for right-wing policy, we find that 24 per cent of the riding voted for this option. On the other Senator Lynch-Staunton: Excellent results, I agree: hand, if we respond to that analysis in kind by combining the 70 per cent to 50 per cent! centre-left vote, we see that 72 per cent of the people supported Senator Milne: Ms Copps won the election handily, taking more left-wing candidates. By any standard, this is an over 46 per cent of the popular vote in a race with 13 candidates. overwhelming majority. In our first-past-the-post system, it is an Many will point to her 67 per cent majority in 1993, but it is unassailable peak. important to keep in mind that the results in 1984 and 1988 were 38 per cent and 49 per cent respectively. Indeed, it is relatively Honourable senators, liberalism is alive and well in Canada. rare in Canada for a candidate to take 50 per cent of the vote; Canadians are liberal people. Do not believe — most get into office with numbers in the high 30s or the low 40s, as we all well know. I congratulate Sheila Copps on the The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable Senator Milne — confidence her electorate has expressed in her. Senator Milne: — the soothsayers who would tell you (1410) otherwise. Let me also take this opportunity to give a brief analysis of the Hon. Philippe Deane Gigantès: Honourable senators, this is a results. I only have unofficial numbers, but I think they will bear non-partisan statement. I am delighted that the Conservative out my perspective. Ever since the arrival of the Reform Party, candidate beat the Reform candidate. I would say to my commentators have engaged in a new math. Like medieval colleagues opposite, you are a lot more palatable and digestible alchemists examining the entrails to produce a powerful mystical than they are, and I am glad this happened. number, pundits like to add the popular votes for the Reform and June 18, 1996 SENATE DEBATES 701 ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Canada-United States Interparliamentary Group’s thirty-seventh annual meeting, held in Alaska from May 10 to 13, 1996. ADJOURNMENT NORTH ATLANTIC ASSEMBLY Hon. B. Alasdair Graham (Deputy Leader of the Government): Honourable senators, with leave of the Senate, SECOND REPORT OF CANADIAN NATO and notwithstanding rule 58(1)(h), I move: PARLIAMENTARY ASSOCIATION TABLED That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand Hon. Bill Rompkey: Honourable senators, pursuant to adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, June 19, 1996, at one Standing Order 34(1), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the second report of the Canadian NATO thirty o’clock in the afternoon. Parliamentary Association, which represented Canada at the The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, is leave 1996 spring session of the North Atlantic Assembly of NATO granted? Parliamentarians, held in Athens, Greece on May 16-20, 1996. Hon. Senators: Agreed. FOREIGN AFFAIRS Motion agreed to. COMMITTEE AUTHORIZED TO MEET DURING SITTING OF SENATE CRIMINAL CODE Hon. John B. Stewart, with leave of the Senate and notwithstanding rule 58(1)(a), moved: BILL TO AMEND—FIRST READING That the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs Hon. Louis J. Roberge presented Bill S-10, to amend the Criminal Code (criminal organization). have power to sit at 4:00 p.m. today, Tuesday, June 18, 1996, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Bill read first time. rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto. The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators? bill be read the second time? Hon. Senators: Agreed. On motion of Senator Roberge, bill placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading on Thursday next, June 20, 1996. Motion agreed to. NORTH ATLANTIC ASSEMBLY PRIVILEGES, STANDING RULES AND ORDERS COMMITTEE AUTHORIZED TO MEET FIRST REPORT OF CANADIAN NATO DURING SITTING OF SENATE PARLIAMENTARY ASSOCIATION TABLED Hon. Bill Rompkey: Honourable senators, I have the honour Hon. B. Alasdair Graham (Deputy Leader of the to table the first report of the Canadian NATO Parliamentary Government), with leave of the Senate and notwithstanding rule Association, which represented Canada at the Third Annual 58(1)(a), moved: Political Committee Visit of the North Atlantic Assembly of That the Standing Committee on Privileges, Standing NATO Parliamentarians, held in Moscow, on April 9-12, 1996. Rules and Orders have power to sit at 4:00 p.m. today, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that rule 95(4) be CANADA-UNITED STATES suspended in relation thereto. INTER-PARLIAMENTARY GROUP The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted? THIRTY-SEVENTH ANNUAL MEETING HELD IN ALASKA— REPORT OF CANADIAN SECTION TABLED Hon. Senators: Agreed. Hon. Jerahmiel S. Grafstein: Honourable senators, I have the Motion agreed to. honour to table the report of the Canadian delegation of the 702 SENATE DEBATES June 18, 1996 QUESTION PERIOD want to send me a copy. However, I will do whatever I can to answer his request. FISHERIES AND OCEANS REPORT ON GOVERNMENT INITIATIVE— IMPACT IN ATLANTIC CANADA—GOVERNMENT POLICY RECOVERY OF MARITIME FISHING PORTS— REQUEST FOR PARTICULARS OF REPORT OF CONSULTANT— Hon. J. Michael Forrestall: Honourable senators, the report GOVERNMENT POSITION referred to by Senator Phillips is very critical, and its Hon. Orville H. Phillips: Honourable senators, media reports implications crucial to part-time fishers in Atlantic Canada. Just yesterday indicated that the government hired Professor Savoie last week we heard about the plight of part-time fishermen, of the Canadian Institute for Research on Regional Development. particularly shell-fishermen, in West Prince, Prince Edward Professor Savoie, as honourable senators know, is a professor at Island, near Alberton. They cannot work in the winter. Their the University of Moncton. He has been closely associated with work involves long, hard days and is what you would describe as ACOA since its inception. Professor Savoie’s report is quoted in seasonal. the media as saying that certain fishing ports in the Maritimes are hopeless and should be abandoned. This report was delivered My question is supplementary in this sense: When the minister over a year ago, and the government has kept it quiet; buried and has obtained copies of this report, would she make them silent for over a year. Why was that? available to us so that we might see that it gets at least partial distribution before we are forced to deal with the Employment (1420) Insurance bill? Senator Berntson: Very curious. Second, would she also determine the attitude of the government respecting the following: How many of these policy Hon. Joyce Fairbairn (Leader of the Government): recommendations made by Professor Savoie are indeed being Honourable senators, I will be quite frank; I do not know to considered by the government, actively or otherwise? Is the which report my friend is referring, but I will make inquiries government contemplating, as the final answer, the “dwindling about it.