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NORTHWEST TERRITORIES LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

2nd Session Day 17 18th Assembly

HANSARD

Wednesday, June 8, 2016

Pages 487 – 524

The Honourable Jackson Lafferty, Speaker Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories Members of the Legislative Assembly

Speaker Hon. Jackson Lafferty (Monfwi)

______

Hon. Glen Abernethy Hon. Bob McLeod Mr. Kevin O’Reilly (Great Slave) (Yellowknife South) (Frame Lake) Government House Leader Premier Minister of Health and Social Minister of the Executive Services; Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Hon. Wally Schumann Minister of Human Resources; Intergovernmental Relations (Hay River South) Minister responsible for Seniors; Minister of Industry, Tourism, and Minister of Environment and Natural Minister responsible for Persons with Investment Resources Disabilities Minister responsible for the Public Minister of Transportation Utilities Board Mr. Tom Beaulieu Hon. Louis Sebert (Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh) Hon. Robert C. McLeod (Thebacha) (Inuvik Twin Lakes) Minister of Justice Mr. Frederick Blake Deputy Premier Minister responsible for the Minister of Finance (Mackenzie Delta) Northwest Territories Power Minister of Lands Corporation Minister of Municipal and Community Minister responsible for the Workers’ Hon. Caroline Cochrane Affairs Safety and Compensation (Range Lake) Commission Minister responsible for the Mr. Daniel McNeely Northwest Territories Housing (Sahtu) Mr. R.J. Simpson Corporation Minister of Public Works and (Hay River North) Services Hon. Alfred Moses Minister responsible for the Status of (Inuvik Boot Lake) Mr. Kieron Testart Women Minister of Education, Culture, and Employment (Kam Lake) Minister responsible for Youth Ms. Julie Green Mr. Shane Thompson (Yellowknife Centre) Mr. Michael Nadli (Nahendeh) (Deh Cho) Mr. Cory Vanthuyne Mr. Herbert Nakimayak (Yellowknife North) (Nunakput)

______Officers Clerk of the Legislative Assembly Mr. Tim Mercer

Deputy Clerk Mr. Doug Mr. Michael BallPrincipal Ms. Gail BennettLaw Clerks SchauertePrincipal Clerk, Clerk, Ms. Sheila MacPherson Committees and Public Corporate and Mr. Glen Rutland Affairs Interparliamentary Affairs ______Box 1320 Yellowknife, Northwest Territories Tel: (867) 767-9010 Fax: (867) 920-4735 Toll-Free: 1-800-661-0784 http://www.assembly.gov.nt.ca

Published under the authority of the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories ii

1. TABLE OF CONTENTS

PRAYER...... 487

MINISTERS’ STATEMENTS...... 487

41-18(2) – Energy Initiatives of Public Works and Services (Cochrane)...... 487

42-18(2) – Update of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation (Sebert)...... 488

43-18(2) – Northwest Territories Climate Change Strategic Framework (Schumann)...... 488

44-18(2) – Development of the NWT Energy Plan (R. McLeod)...... 489

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS...... 490

Need for Suitable, Adequate and Affordable Housing (Vanthuyne)...... 490

Impact of Migration on Homelessness in Yellowknife (Green)...... 490

Community Housing Development Plans (Beaulieu)...... 491

Addressing the Need for Affordable Rental Units (Testart)...... 491

Self-Government Initiatives in the Sahtu (McNeely)...... 492

Employment Opportunities Related to Housing Construction (Blake)...... 492

Territorial Housing Issues (Nadli)...... 493

Economic Solutions to Reduce the Need for Subsidized Housing (Simpson)...... 493

Ulukhaktok Arena Closure (Nakimayak)...... 493

Congratulations to Echo Dene School Graduates (Thompson)...... 494

Midwifery Services in the Northwest Territories (O’Reilly)...... 494

RECOGNITION OF VISITORS IN THE GALLERY...... 495

ORAL QUESTIONS...... 496

REPLIES TO BUDGET ADDRESS...... 506

TABLING OF DOCUMENTS...... 510

CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE OF BILLS AND OTHER MATTERS...... 523

REPORT OF COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE...... 523

ORDERS OF THE DAY...... 523

Page 6 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

YELLOWKNIFE, NORTHWEST TERRITORIES Wednesday, June 8, 2016 Members Present Hon. Glen Abernethy, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Blake, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Ms. Green, Hon. Jackson Lafferty, Hon. Bob McLeod, Hon. Robert McLeod, Mr. McNeely, Hon. Alfred Moses, Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, Mr. O’Reilly, Hon. Wally Schumann, Hon. Louis Sebert, Mr. Simpson, Mr. Testart, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Vanthuyne

The House met at 1:30 p.m. completion of solar projects in Fort Liard, Fort Simpson, Colville Lake, and 2. Prayer Wrigley. The department also undertook wind monitoring and project feasibility ---Prayer work for a potential wind development in SPEAKER (Hon. Jackson Lafferty): Inuvik. Building on the success with Good afternoon, colleagues. Ministers' liquefied natural gas in Inuvik, we have statements. Minister of Public Works also done feasibility work of using LNG and Services. in Fort Simpson. Since 2014, the Inuvik LNG installation has saved NTPC $1.7 3. Ministers' Statements million in fuel costs. MINISTER’S STATEMENT 41-18(2): Mr. Speaker, making better use of our ENERGY INITIATIVES OF existing hydroelectric resources is PUBLIC WORKS AND SERVICES another one of the commitments in the Government of the Northwest Territories HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank mandate. Our commitment includes you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it has exploring options to respond to low been just over one year since the water in the North Slave system, which Government of the Northwest we have done with the recently Territories’ energy functions were completed North Slave resiliency study. consolidated in the Department of Public Works and Services. Today I would like As a result of record low water levels to update Members on some of the work experienced in the North Slave hydro that this division is doing. The system, Public Works and Services Government of the Northwest Territories engaged Manitoba Hydro International has made commitments in its mandate to review our system and provide to improve access to energy efficient recommendations on how best to products and to investigate and manage low water conditions. The study implement renewable and alternative established that we can expect hydro- energy solutions. Public Works and generated electricity to be available Services efforts in this area included the about 90 per cent of the time for at least installation of energy efficient LED the next 20 years. It also found that streetlights in communities across the without a new large industrial power NWT in partnership with the Northwest customer, such as a mine, alternative Territories Power Corporation, and the generation such as wind or solar would June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 7 go unused most of the time and would Services will direct $3.8 million in the add unnecessary expenses to coming year to energy retrofits and customers’ bills through the rate alternative energy products, including increases. LED lighting, building retrofits, biomass, and solar across the NWT. As well, five Recommendations in this study include biomass boilers are included in the new improving hydrology monitoring on the construction projects across the NWT North Slave hydro system, examining including the Stanton Territorial options for aging infrastructure, and to Hospital. consider options to offset rate shock caused by low water, such as a low In response to our mandate commitment water fund. Over the coming year, to increase incentives and improve Public Works and Services will work access to energy efficient products, the with other departments and agencies to department will continue to work closely implement these recommendations. The with and support the work of the Arctic department also continued to deliver Energy Alliance. The department will those energy products and programs provide $3.5 million in funding to the which have proven successful year over alliance this year to ensure that year. These include: residents, businesses, and community governments can access the services  Installing six biomass boiler and incentives that will help them installations, bringing the total of manage their own energy use. We plan Government of the Northwest to build on all of these successes by Territories wood pellet boiler developing a long-term vision for energy projects to 28; and through a new energy plan, which will  Completion of 26 energy address affordability, reliability, efficiency projects on various environmental impacts, and the government facilities throughout economic development potential of the NWT which will reduce the energy within the Northwest Territories. equivalent of 8,800 tonnes of Today, I will table the 2015-16 Energy greenhouse gas emissions and Conservation Initiatives Report. This save the government $267,000 annual report outlines how the each year. Department of Public Works and Services is meeting our government’s Mr. Speaker, the implementation of the mandate priorities in the areas of energy Capital Asset Retrofit Program in 2007, efficiency, alternative and renewable energy conservation and efficiency energy use, and support to residents to improvements, and the adoption of invest in and to adopt energy practices biomass heating technology for many of aimed at reducing the cost of living and our facilities, has resulted in annual mitigating the impacts of our energy use savings of $1.8 million. It is anticipated on the environment. Thank you, Mr. that in the coming year, annual savings Speaker. will exceed $2 million and annual greenhouse gas reductions will exceed MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Ministers' 10,000 tonnes. Looking ahead, the statements. Minister of NWT Power Department of Public Works and Corporation. Page 8 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

MINISTER’S STATEMENT 42-18(2): consider the most appropriate future UPDATE ON THE NORTHWEST governance model for the corporation. TERRITORIES POWER CORPORATION Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the former board for HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Mr. Speaker, I their service and to emphasize that this would like to provide Members with an change was in no way related to the update on recent changes made with performance of the board. respect to the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. On May 24, 2016, I I would also like to underscore that the appointed six deputy ministers to the corporation is a valuable and critical board of the corporation. The reasons partner in our territory’s efforts to reduce for taking this action have been the use of diesel and develop renewable documented in the media, but I would and alternative forms of energy. When like to briefly reiterate these reasons one of the Ikhil gas wells in Inuvik and provide Members and the public watered out, the corporation’s timely use with some information on next steps. of liquefied natural gas resulted in savings of $1.7 million since 2014. The First, and most importantly, this change development of the cutting edge Colville to the board of directors will save Lake solar-diesel-battery hybrid system ratepayers $1 million per year. In the opened last month was also led by the face of continued cost pressures, power corporation. These are just two rates for consumers have also examples of the corporation’s leadership continued to rise. Four years of rate in developing alternative energy for the increases have been followed by an NWT. Mr. Speaker, the new board is in application from the corporation for place and operating. As Minister, I further rate increases of 4.8 per cent this intend to issue direction to the board to year followed by four per cent in 2017- continue to look at ways to further 18 and four per cent in 2018-19. mitigate rising electricity costs. They will Retaining the previous board would review the responsibilities of the board have meant even larger rate increases as reflected in current legislation and for NWT consumers and this was one guidelines; develop options regarding way the government could cut costs. As the future governance model for the well, it should be noted that the nature Corporation; and develop an of the corporation and its relationship accountability framework that considers with the government is changing. It has greater accountability to all Members of been the recipient of substantial GNWT the Legislative Assembly. Mr. Speaker, subsidies in recent years. The Auditor this work will feed into the development General has recognized these changes of a new energy plan, one of the and directed that the corporation be commitments in the GNWT mandate. reclassified from a government business This plan will present a long-term vision enterprise to another government for our approach to energy in the organization. The corporation must now Northwest Territories and the role of the adhere to public sector accounting corporation will be a critical piece of this standards. Given these changes, I vision. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. believe it is time that the GNWT June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 9

MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Ministers' most recent strategy, in effect from 2011 statements. Minister of Environmental to 2015, identified actions that the and Natural Resources. GNWT, industry, and communities could take to stabilize territorial emissions at MINISTER’S STATEMENT 43-18(2): or below 2005 levels. Actions in this NORTHWEST TERRITORIES strategy have been closely linked with CLIMATE CHANGE STRATEGIC actions implemented under the FRAMEWORK Northwest Territories Energy Plan. HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: Mr. Mr. Speaker, we know these actions Speaker, climate change continues to must continue to be linked to other be one of the most serious GNWT strategies and plans. Like other environmental, economic, and political jurisdictions around the globe, the challenges of our time and it is an Northwest Territories is faced with the important issue to the residents of the need to transform our economy so it will Northwest Territories. In the mandate, reduce dependency on fossil fuels. the Government of the Northwest Risks to economic, social, and cultural Territories, or GNWT, has committed to values in our communities will intensify if develop a territorial climate change climate change continues to affect our strategy that takes northern energy ability to maintain our traditional pursuits demands and the cost of living into and lifestyle. Melting permafrost account. It will reflect commitments to requires more maintenance to our reduce greenhouse gas emissions and infrastructure and changes to our explore carbon pricing systems and how construction practices to ensure new to capture local alternatives such as infrastructure is more resilient to the hydro, biomass, wind, and solar. Work effects of climate change. Winter roads to develop that strategy has begun, led are hard to maintain and travelling on by the Department of Environment and the land is becoming more difficult and Natural Resources, in collaboration with sometimes dangerous. Forest fire GNWT departments and other regimes are changing and there are organizations. In 1998, the GNWT shifts in plant and animal habitats and recognized the need to make an distribution. Last December, the nations appropriate contribution to reducing of the world met in Paris and adopted a greenhouse gas emissions and commit new global agreement to address to working with the federal and climate change. The Northwest provincial governments to reduce Territories, which had just had an Canada’s emissions. The first step election, was represented by a towards this commitment was the delegation of senior officials. In March release of the first Northwest Territories 2016, Prime Minister Trudeau invited Greenhouse Gas Strategy in 2001. The the Premiers of Canada to a First focus of that strategy identified the need Ministers Meeting and Premier Bob to coordinate our actions to begin to McLeod joined them for this important control greenhouse gas emissions and discussion. This meeting resulted in the make sure a northern perspective was Vancouver Declaration. The declaration part of Canada’s national climate recognizes that all provinces, territories, change implementation strategy. The and the federal government are Page 10 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 responsible for taking action on climate MINISTER’S STATEMENT 44-18(2): change. The declaration also set in DEVELOPMENT OF THE NWT place an agreement among ENERGY PLAN governments to develop a pan- Canadian framework for clean growth HON. BOB MCLEOD: Mr. Speaker, the and to address climate change. First Government of the Northwest Territories Ministers committed to transition to a has made a commitment in its mandate low carbon economy by adopting a to create a new three-year Energy broad range of domestic measures, Action Plan, building on previous including consideration of carbon pricing investments made over the past three mechanisms, adapted to each years and the outcomes of the energy province's and territory's specific plan review. As you have heard from the circumstances, in particular the realities Minister of Public Works and Services, of Canada's Indigenous peoples and the Government of the Northwest Arctic and sub-Arctic regions. Four Territories has accomplished a great federal-provincial-territorial working deal in the areas of energy conservation groups were established to begin and efficiency, and in implementing implementation work and the Northwest alternative and renewable energy Territories is participating in all four solutions in recent years. groups. The report to the working group The NWT is an acknowledged leader in will be made public in September and installed biomass heating and ranks provided to the First Ministers in second in the country in installed solar October. capacity per person. We have Mr. Speaker, we know this is an completed innovative projects, such as important issue in the Northwest the Colville Lake solar-battery-diesel Territories. We will be engaging with project, which has already resulted in MLAs, Aboriginal governments, periods where the community has stakeholders, and NWT residents to operated without running its generators. hear their views and gather input on a As reflected in the proposed budget this Northwest Territories climate change year, we are working to advance the strategic framework and the pan- development of a wind turbine project in Canadian framework. I expect to Inuvik, as well as an innovative project announce plans on this engagement to install solar in combination with a shortly. I look forward to hearing variable speed generator in Aklavik. We Members’ thoughts on the best plan to continue this success by approach to this important issue. Thank developing a vision for energy that you, Mr. Speaker. addresses affordability, reliability, environmental impacts, and the MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Ministers' economic development potential of statements. Honourable Premier. energy in the Northwest Territories. This plan will consider the future approach to the electricity system and the governance of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. The plan will also consider how to expand the use of alternative and renewable energy, such June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 11 as wind, solar, biomass, geothermal, growth and address the cost of living in and hydroelectricity development, as the NWT. Based on what we have well as address the heating and previously heard from Northerners, the transportation sectors. We will start discussion paper released in July will developing this new energy plan by raise some proposed solutions. Further releasing a public discussion document input will be critical to the success of this in July that will outline our proposed new energy plan and I encourage approach. Over the summer and fall, we Northerners to provide comments to will be asking the public, community and help ensure that we get it right. This Aboriginal governments, other energy plan will clearly be linked to the stakeholders, and Members of the climate change strategic framework. Legislative Assembly for their views on The framework will address a span of our proposed approach. The actions from adaptation to the impacts government intends to table a new of climate change to mitigating the energy plan early in 2017. impacts of our energy use on the environment. Mitigating the impacts of The Government of the Northwest our energy use means continued growth Territories has held two energy and the use of local and renewable charrettes over the past four years and sources of energy in our communities, gathered a great deal of information and actions that will be detailed in the input from community representatives, energy plan. Opportunities for joint other stakeholders, and experts from discussions with communities will be across Canada. We have heard that coordinated and I encourage all affordability is the number one concern residents to participate in the in communities, and that there are no development of the strategic framework simple solutions to the energy issues we and the energy plan. With your help, we face in the Northwest Territories. can ensure that we have a supply of Addressing our tremendous challenges secure, affordable, and sustainable will require some innovative thinking and energy that meets the needs of current big ideas. For example, the Northwest and future generations. Thank you, Mr. Territories has tremendous Speaker. hydroelectricity potential. Could some of this potential be developed in MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Ministers' partnership with Aboriginal governments statements. Item 3, Members' to supply southern provinces with statements. Member for Yellowknife renewable power? Alberta and North. Saskatchewan still rely on coal-fired generation, and perhaps Northwest 4. Members' Statements Territories hydro could contribute towards national climate change goals. MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON The Government of the Northwest NEED FOR SUITABLE, Territories will pursue opportunities to ADEQUATE AND AFFORDABLE leverage the Government of Canada’s HOUSING new infrastructure plan to fund green MR. VANTHUYNE: Mr. Speaker, infrastructure in the NWT. With federal yesterday I was pleased to hear the government help, we can support green Minister of NWT Housing Corporation's Page 12 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 announcement about the construction of maintenance. We need to work with nine-unit seniors' buildings in five communities to secure available land communities. This is welcome news; and with the federal government to however, suitable, adequate, and secure long-term support. affordable housing remains in short supply. Housing in Canada is measured Later today, I will have questions for the by three criteria. Suitable housing has Minister of the NWT Housing the appropriate number of bedrooms for Corporation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. occupants. Adequate housing has MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' working plumbing and does not need statements. Member for Yellowknife major repairs. Affordable housing costs Centre. less than 30 per cent of household income. A dwelling is considered to be MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON in core need if it doesn't meet one of IMPACT OF MIGRATION ON these conditions and the household HOMELESSNESS IN income is below the core-need income YELLOWKNIFE threshold. In 2014, 32 per cent of all NWT households had some sort of MS. GREEN: Mr. Speaker, we have housing problem and 20 per cent in core heard debate this week about possible need. There are many complex solutions to homelessness in challenges associated with providing Yellowknife and how they are going to quality housing in the North. Waiting be paid for. I welcome the lists for public housing are long. announcement by the Minister Inadequate supply leads to serious, responsible for Homelessness of chronic over-crowding. Social housing additional money for homelessness clients complain of unfair eligibility initiatives both for semi-independent assessments. When clients do get units located within existing shelters and housing the units are often in disrepair. independent units under the Housing Sadly, many public housing clients also First model. Either way, more people need other forms of social assistance, who are now homeless will be housed such as support for addiction and and that's the goal here. I want to talk mental health problems, so about expectations Yellowknifers may homeownership and maintenance is a have about making homelessness go very difficult goal to reach. Many away. It's not going to go away. This communities have boarded-up homes new investment will give people who are that could be put to good use if the now homeless options to obtain GNWT would resolve obstacles to their housing. This is strictly voluntary. If they accessibility. As well, government has to don't want housing, they don't have to balance the benefits of stick-built versus have it. If they want to live outside or modular units, while also achieving couch surf and continue sleeping at energy efficiency. A lot needs to be emergency shelters, that is their choice. done, Mr. Speaker. We need to promote I expect a good uptake on the new homeownership, especially in non- housing options, in the range of 80 per market communities. We need to offer cent, according to city research, but not homeowner training programs about everyone will want to participate. The mortgages, home buying, and other reason homelessness is not going June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 13 to go away is because of migration from Yellowknife, and for Yellowknife the communities to Yellowknife. Any of residents. This collaboration is the way my colleagues here in this House could forward for finding real solutions to this walk downtown and identify constituents long-term problem. Thank you, Mr. who are homeless here. A major driver Speaker. of migration is the inadequacy of housing available in the small MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' communities. People come here statements. Member for Tu Nedhe- because there is more housing here, Wiilideh. whether shelters, transitional housing, MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON public housing, or market rentals. COMMUNITY HOUSING Another driver of migration is access to DEVELOPMENT PLANS services that are only offered in MR. BEAULIEU: Marci cho. Mr. Yellowknife, such as specialized Speaker. Mr. Speaker, everybody's medical treatment or greater support for talking about the houses on this side disabled children. Other reasons people here with the Housing Minister. We're come, in no particular order: to take a going to be asking the Minister of job, to be reunited with family members, Housing. I too will continue with the and to have easier access to alcohol. NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. No surprises there. Migration seems to Speaker, the NWT Housing Corporation be increasing, Mr. Speaker, at least has the ability to touch on every aspect anecdotally, and more migrants are of our mandate. It can impact the homeless. As the City of Yellowknife economy by providing communities with has reported, “the costs of this local housing projects that will see five demographic shift, including intrinsic or six people in the communities trained costs, are borne by the city.” That's in and working on renovating homes. spite of the fact they have no mandate These projects can also look at or budget for this burden, except for employing the 18-to-30-year-old group federal government Housing First as youth employment rates are very low. money. There is no question that, again We all know that having employment quoting from the report, “there are and a good house goes a long way to insufficient resources for housing and addressing the wellbeing of health services for those migrating from communities and its people. In other other communities.” Mr. Speaker, I words, employ people and put them in request consent to conclude my good housing; you'll have healthier statement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. populations than people without jobs ---Unanimous consent granted and in poor housing. Mr. Speaker, even in the area of governance, when you MS. GREEN: Thank you, colleagues. show the people in our communities that Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The federal we care enough to make sure our and territorial governments are set to citizens are living in suitable and reverse this trend by funding additional adequate homes, we will see that housing for people who are homeless. leadership becomes a lot easier to deal This is good news for the many people with. waiting for homes, for the City of Page 14 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

A chief told me that when we signed on Yellowknife and in all our communities, to a devolution agreement he thought but, Mr. Speaker, today I want to the government was going to be a advocate for a taxpayer that almost partner moving forward. He said, “that is seems forgotten in this budget and one not what has happened.” Mr. Speaker, that is weighed down by the cost of the communities look at the government living more than most, the renter. With in the holistic sense and not department the cost of fuel, power, food and other by department. It is important that we amenities being drastically higher than know that. I think the NWT Housing our neighbours in the South, the cost of Corporation could do very well with the living in our communities is so out of communities by developing good control to the point that this Assembly communication and it also can work with has made it a priority in our mandate. I each community in developing a commend this government for housing development plan, specific to attempting to accomplish this for those that community. This housing families that will benefit from the earlier- development plan could have real mentioned budget measures, but our targets in reducing core need for that renters are also in a difficult position and community. This housing development I do not clearly see what this plan could be the blueprint for the NWT government is doing to address this. Housing Corporation to address core need in every community. I'll have In our capital city, a two bedroom questions for the Minister of Housing at apartment can be priced anywhere from the appropriate time. Marci cho, Mr. $1,400 to $1,900, and a three to four- Speaker. bedroom townhouse runs from $1,900 to $2,500. While in Fort St. John, a MR. SPEAKER: Members' statements. northern city of similar size to the South, Member for Kam Lake. a one to two-bedroom apartment starts at $500 and goes to $1,000, while a MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON three-bedroom townhouse is in the ADDRESSING THE NEED FOR range of $1,150, Mr. Speaker. This AFFORDABLE RENTAL UNITS comparison, in my opinion, is staggering and acts as a deterrent from people MR. TESTART: Mr. Speaker, this across the country to even consider budget offers quite a few things residing in our great territory. Members of this House can get behind. One aspect in particular is investing Mr. Speaker, there are solutions to this $16.6 million in new federal funding for problem though, and made-in-the-North affordable housing projects with the solutions at that, for the Yukon has just intent of providing residents of the NWT recently made great strides in with an increased number of households addressing them. They have awarded that are not only contemporary in all two Yukon developers capital funding to relevant safety standards, but more support the construction and operation importantly, and all too rarely seen in of affordable renting housing projects in the North, affordable. This is by all Whitehorse and Dawson City. One means a noble measure of this developer will receive $500,000 to government to tackle the cost of living construct urban micro-apartments in and will benefit a number of families in Whitehorse. In Dawson City, Chief Isaac June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 15 lncorporated will receive $450,000 for a responsible minister on pre- 14-unit development. Mr. Speaker, I implementation planning which is seek unanimous consent to conclude important to any agreement on the my statement. implementation side of things. Mr. Speaker, I'll have questions to the other ---Unanimous consent granted remaining communities on their self- MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. government initiatives. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you to my colleagues Speaker. as well. This is a clear example of a MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' northern government recognizing the statements. Member for Mackenzie problem and addressing it in a way that Delta. partners with private sector and Indigenous governments, but it also MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON does so in a transparent method that EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES this Assembly expects to see of this RELATING TO HOUSING government. I ask, Mr. Speaker, if the CONSTRUCTION Yukon is doing something to tackle the issue of affordable rental units, what is MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. our government doing to solve our Mr. Speaker, over the next couple years problem here in the Northwest we have a total of 12 units coming into Territories? For if it can be the Mackenzie Delta. In Aklavik, we accomplished in our neighbouring have two duplex modular homes; Fort territory, it most certainly can be McPherson we have three duplex accomplished here at home in the modular homes there as well; and in Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Tsiigehtchic, we have one duplex that Speaker. we're still awaiting from last year. Mr. Speaker, that's great we're having 12 MR. SPEAKER: Members' statements. units coming into our riding, but the Member for Sahtu. issue is that these are modular homes being shipped in. It's always been a MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON practice within our riding through the SELF-GOVERNMENT Delta that we have stick-built in the INITIATIVES IN THE SAHTU communities. We have a 25-per-cent MR. MCNEELY: Today I rise in the employment rate in our communities, House here to discuss the self- small communities, throughout the government initiatives undertaken within NWT. I never worked out the total the Sahtu region, more importantly and amount of employment that we're losing more specifically we, the first here, but it's in the neighbourhood of at government, here will see the first least 20 positions. People are not going community-based and self-government to have that opportunity to work for initiative this fiscal year in a few months somewhere. Sometimes it takes maybe to come: the Deline self-government five to six months to build these units, agreement. I would like to congratulate but Mr. Speaker, we're losing that the previous government and the employment in our communities and previous parties to that initiative and that's a big issue through my riding. We later I'll have questions to the have contractors in Aklavik and Fort Page 16 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

McPherson that are losing out here, not initiative too, family units are separated to mention all the people that they and categorized in terms of needs and employ to build these units. I realize the policy eligibility with focus on some Housing Corporation feels they're saving primary family unit of parents and money, but, they're also taking away children, to ensure wellness and a from our riding that employs our people healthy lifestyles. It is I hope the throughout our small communities. I'll aspiration of this government for those have questions for the Minister later people, families, to own their own today. Thank you. homes. The seniors don’t have homes, the young people are living in MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' apartments, and some people don’t statements. Member for Deh Cho. even have a place to sleep. People that have been evicted or have arrears and MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON no possibility of accessing their own TERRITORIAL HOUSING ISSUES homes are left to build their own shacks MR. NADLI: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. or houses, often on the titled property of Speaker, the majority of my constituents their parents or relatives. There are are First Nations, signatories to Treaty 8 some parts of communities that could be and 11 with the Government of Canada compared to shantytowns for tent in 1899 and 1921. In those treaties, frames and shacks that popped up. promises were made to continue Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. existing unhindered and of cultural MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' pursuits, and with the most treaties, statements. Member for Hay River there were certain promises that were North. made including education, health, and housing just to name a few. Those MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON promises are what we call today ECONOMIC SOLUTIONS TO fiduciary obligations for program and REDUCE NEED FOR services for housing. This is a brief SUBSIDIZED HOUSING historical perspective. MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. [English translation not provided.] Speaker. Mr. Speaker, imagine waking Our people were nomadic, they travelled up every day in a house that’s run down, in the bush, they lived in the bush, and mouldy, drafty and too small for your eventually our children were taken family. Then one day, you wake up in a away. They were forced to go to school. big, new, beautiful home. You get out of At about that point, the GNWT took over bed and brush your teeth in your en- housing and generalized programs as suite bathroom and then make breakfast public housing. The current view of the in your spacious kitchen. Mr. Speaker, housing programs is that there's you head off to your job with the mine, program services and policies for with a six-figure salary that helped you housing and what we call a fiduciary pay for your new home. obligation. In that view, the GNWT has a It’s well known that we have a deficit of responsibility at providing adequate appropriate housing in our territory. It’s housing to First Nations and all been discussed ad nauseam, but no residents of the NWT. Within that policy June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 17 matter how many homes we’ve built, MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON unless we address the cause of the ULUKHAKTOK ARENA economic disadvantage that fuels the CLOSURE need for subsidized housing, the problem will only get worse. I’m not at all MR. NAKIMAYAK: Quyanainni, Mr. opposed to social housing. We need to Speaker, and Mr. Speaker, I’d like to support those who need it. But when thank my colleague for that statement. there are healthy men and women in It’s very meaningful. Mr. Speaker, today Whati who want to work, who want to I’m going to talk about the Ulukhaktok earn a good income, and who want to arena closure. The arena in Ulukhaktok provide for their families, then it’s my has been closed since late last year priority to give them an opportunity to do when the hamlet council received the that. The road to Whati is not a handout consultant’s report indicating that the to a mining company. It’s a way to building is contaminated with mould. support the creation of well-paying According to the Hamlet, “a significant mining jobs and bring money and amount of mould was found on surfaces opportunity into a community. Despite in both the hockey and curling rink. The how it’s sometimes portrayed in this report also indicated that mould was House, Road to Resources is not a found in the air quality test in the lobby, pejorative term. Roads to resources are kitchen, washrooms, and change our best hope to turn our local and rooms.” Mr. Speaker, mould spores territorial economies around. Just think if occur naturally and can be found in the we built the Slave Geological Province air both inside and outdoors. When road when it was first discussed in the these spores encounter a moist '50s or if we built it in the '60s or the '70s environment, they begin to grow and or at all. We wouldn’t have a $3.2 billion release toxins. Mould contamination can infrastructure deficit and a housing crisis cause allergic reactions in some people, and we wouldn’t be sucking at the teat with younger people being more of the federal government, begging our susceptible than most. Ice arenas, residents to complete the census so we which have a high indoor relative can get our headcount money. We humidity, can provide a perfect would have a stable resource revenue environment for mould growth. The stream, securing our people’s future for hamlet did the right thing by closing the generations to come. I didn’t get into arena while dealing with this mould politics to put Band-Aids on our issue to minimize the potential health problems. I did it to get people working. I threat to children and other arena users. don’t want to be part of another Unfortunately, the closure of the arena Assembly who couldn’t do what was poses other risks to young people in needed to provide for our territory, so Ulukhaktok, risks associated with let’s build these roads and put people to boredom and lack of physical activity. work so they have the power to buy their As we know, the benefits of physical own homes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. activity in children and youth are MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members’ extensive, with many direct and statements. Member for Nunakput. associated positive outcomes. Regular physical activity is associated with lower blood pressure and lower rates of Page 18 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 obesity and diabetes. It is also positively congratulated for all their very hard work linked to better mental health outcomes and commitment in completing their high such as better social skills, improved school requirements. What is really academic performance and reduce rates amazing, they were able to achieve their of anxiety and depression. For this success in a small community where reason, it concerns me greatly to see there are few resources, such as a well- Ulukhaktok’s arena is scheduled to be stocked library, and fewer teachers and closed for such a long time. The students to study and share their consultant’s report revealed that it was a learning together. design flaw in the building, specifically, a lack of mechanical ventilation which Mr. Speaker, I believe in spite of this caused the mould. The Hamlet is limitation, I believe the Internet has working to correct these issues and given these students in remote hopes to reopen the facility this fall. communities a chance to be successful Later today, I will have questions for the in their home communities where they Municipal and Community Affairs have friends and family for support. I Minister about what the department is thank the Minister of Education for doing to assist Ulukhaktok to remediate providing support in that area. However, the arena and re-open it to the public as Mr. Speaker, the Internet is not the only safely and quickly as possible. Thank reason for their success. We have to you, Mr. Speaker. thank all the teachers, including the three that are retiring, recognized MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members’ yesterday, principals, support staff from statements. Member for Nahendeh. the Deh Cho divisional education staff, and other school support staff who work MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON just as hard to get these three their CONGRATULATIONS TO success. I need to recognize and thank ECHO DENE SCHOOL the community, their coaches, friends, GRADUATES and family, parents, brothers, sisters, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. cousins who were there to encourage Speaker. As we get near to the end of them along the way. As well, it’s time for the school year, grade 12 students are them to be very proud of their looking back on the years past in the graduates. school, as well as looking forward to the next phase of their life. Echo Dene In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to School in Fort Liard will celebrate their again congratulate these three men on graduation on Thursday, June 9th at 6:30 reaching this significant milestone in p.m. I have been invited to attend and their life. There will be many more, I’m I’m very proud to say that I’ll be sure. Enjoy this moment; you’ve earned attending. Unfortunately, this means that it. As you move onto your next I will not be in the House tomorrow, so adventure, whether it is more schooling, some of you Ministers will not get any entering in the workforce, or travelling, questions from me. That may make you this is just the beginning and I look happy. Mr. Speaker, I’m proud to say forward to seeing their future that I know all these three gentlemen. accomplishments in whatever field it is Ross, Ethan, and Keith need to be in. I wish them all the best and look June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 19 forward to being part of their regions, starting with the Deh Cho and celebrations tomorrow. Mahsi cho. Behchoko. The word “midwife” does not appear anywhere in our 2016-17 MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members’ budget, so there’s been little progress statements. Member for Frame Lake. on this issue. Recently, the Health Minister told midwifery advocates that, MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON “The consultation process is currently MIDWIFERY SERVICES IN THE being developed for the territorial NORTHWEST TERRITORIES midwifery program and consultation will MR. O’REILLY: Merci, Monsieur le take place during the fall/winter of 2016. President. Today, I’d like to talk about Once completed, a proposal for the long saga of midwifery services in territorial midwifery program will be the Northwest Territories, based upon reviewed and considered.” Mr. Speaker, the latest updates provided by the we’re at least five years along from that Minister of Health and Social Services. decision that led to a 2012 report and In 2012, the government responded to recommendations. The 2015 work on advocacy for community-based two dedicated consultants has resulted midwifery services with a midwifery in a proposal for further consultation in review and expansion analysis report. fall/winter 2016-17. That means that any That report recommended options for incorporation into business plans is expansion of midwifery services under kicked down to at least 2018-19. community, regional, and territorial MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members’ models. In July 2015, the Minister said statements. Item 4, returns to oral that the next goal was to move forward questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors with a territorial model based out of in the gallery. Yellowknife in 2015-16, so that the full rollout could be done in 2016-17. The 5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery exact nature of a territorial model was not defined in that 2012 report. Work on MR. SPEAKER: My colleagues, I would creating the territorial model appears to like to draw your attention to a number be stalled. To move it forward, two of people in the gallery. All the language consultants were brought on in 2015 to experts, language resource people, flesh out the concept. Midwife positions teachers, educators are here with us. I were created and staffed in Hay River would like to thank you for being with us and Fort Smith. Rather than two Inuvik and more specifically for Camilla staff positions, the Beaufort Delta health Bishop. Nora Wedzin is here with us. authority decided to pursue other care She’s been in a language area for a models. Positions proposed for number of years as well, and also, Yellowknife and Behchoko have yet to Tammy Steinwand-Deschambeault. be funded. That’s my understanding of Same teacher over the years. Thanks where we are today. for supporting our language and continue your success. Masi. Member The Minister stated in July 2015 that he for Inuvik Boot Lake. was still committed to introducing midwifery services based in Yellowknife HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, and would expand the program into the Mr. Speaker and I couldn’t say it better Page 20 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 myself. Thank you for your remarks to MR. BLAKE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. our wonderful language workers and Mr. Speaker, I’d like to welcome Mary instructors throughout the Northwest Ross and William George first to the Territories. Today I’d like you to join me House today. Thank you for all your in welcoming board members that sit on work you’ve done for the Gwich’in the Official Languages and Aboriginal language. Mahsi cho. Language Revitalization Boards, which is very important work as we’re moving MR. SPEAKER: Recognition of visitors forward in this government and was a in the gallery. Member for Sahtu. priority coming out the 17th Legislative MR. MCNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Assembly as well. I know they do really Speaker. I too would like to recognize great work with our Aboriginal Language Dora Grandjambe, Theresa Etchinelle, Secretariat as well. Please welcome me and Mary Ann Vital. Welcome to the in welcoming Dora Grandjambe, from Assembly. Members of our home riding. the Sahtu Dene Council. She’s the Thank you, Mr. Speaker. chairperson of the Aboriginal Language Revitalization Board. Beverly Amos, MR. SPEAKER: Recognition of visitors chairperson of the Official Languages in the gallery. Member for Nunakput. Board from the Inuvialuit Regional MR. NAKIMAYAK: Quyanainni, Mr. Corporation. Emily Kudlak, John Speaker. Mr. Speaker, also, I’d like Catholique, Emma Amundson, Jonas welcome everybody from the Official Landry, Mary Ross, Tammy Steinwand- Languages Board members, Aboriginal Deschambeault, Theresa Etchinelle, Revitalization Board members, and Nora Wedzin, Vance Sanderson. Also regional language coordinators. I think joining us here today are regional we should put you guys to work in the language coordinators, Barbara translation booths. Mr. Speaker, I’d like Memogana, from the Inuvialuit Regional to welcome a fellow Inuvialuit, Beverly Corporation; Mary Ann Vital, Sahtu Amos, Emily Kudlak, and Barb Dene Council; Violet Jumbo, from the McKenna. I’m always a big advocate for Dehcho First Nations; William Firth from Indigenous peoples and while we the Gwich’in Tribal Council; Nicolas advocate for the environment, we keep Carrier, Federation Franco-Tenoise. our language strong. Thank you. Also, I believe up in the gallery is Welcome. Shannon Gullberg, our Languages Commissioner and our great staff over MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of at the Aboriginal Language Secretariat visitors in the gallery. Member for Frame that’s doing some great work. I’d like to Lake. welcome our staff for joining us here MR. O’REILLY: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I’d today and have all Members join us like to recognize a few other people in welcoming our great workers throughout the gallery. We have Kelly and Todd the Northwest Territories. Thank you. Slack and the new addition to their MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of family, Sam, probably one of the visitors in the gallery. Member for youngest people who has ever been in Mackenzie Delta. the gallery. David Wasylciw, who runs Open NWT, a valuable resource for June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 21 political junkies. Thank you, Mr. Nation. Vance is my grandson’s dad. I’d Speaker. also like to recognize Angela James, from the Department of Education, MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of Culture and Employment, and Angela is visitors in the gallery. Member for part of my big family. Thank you. Nahendeh. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Visitors in Gallery. Member for Speaker. I too, would like to stand up Yellowknife North. here today and recognize a few constituents from my riding. Emma MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, Mr. Amundson and Violet Jumbo and a Speaker. Like my colleague, I want to shout out to Tammy Steinwand there. also recognize residents of the Thank you. Yellowknife North riding, the Slack family: Todd, Kelly, and Sam. Thank you MR. SPEAKER: Recognition of visitors for being here. in the gallery. Member for Thebacha. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of HON. LOUIS SEBERT: To recognize visitors in the gallery. Member for John Catholique, representing the Yellowknife Centre. Akaitcho Territory Government, and Vance Anderson, NWT Metis Nation. MS. GREEN: Masi, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize my constituent, Nicolas MR. SPEAKER: Recognition of visitors Carriere, who is with Franco-Tenoise in the gallery. Member for Deh Cho. and helps to keep the French language MR. NADLI: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Me strong here in the territory. Mahsi. too, I’d like to recognize several people MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of in the gallery. The official Languages visitors in the gallery. Commissioner; revitalization board; Jonas Landry, Emma Amundson, they [English translation not provided.] work on the Aboriginal languages; and Violet Jumbo. She’s working on the Mary Sundberg is a very strong revitalization program. I’d like to advocate for languages. I would like to recognize them for the hard work that thank her. She really promotes the they’re doing. Thank you. language. They all do a very good job in promoting our language. Thank you, MR. SPEAKER: Recognition of visitors very much. Item 6, acknowledgements. in the gallery. Member for Tu Nedhe- Item 7, oral questions. Member for Wiilideh. Nahendeh.

MR. BEAULIEU: Marci cho, Mr. 6. Oral Questions Speaker. I too, would like to recognize people for the Official Languages and QUESTION 185-18(2): Aboriginal Languages Revitalization CONSTRUCTION SCHEDULE Boards. First, I’d like to recognize John FOR CHARLES TETCHO Catholique, also mostly known as “JC”. SCHOOL IN TROUT LAKE Marci cho. Also, I’d like to recognize Vance Sanderson from the Metis MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I Page 22 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 received an email from Sambaa K’e MR. THOMPSON: Way too fast today. First Nation council in Trout Lake, Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the district of education party, regarding Minister for his answer. However, he concerns about Charles Tetcho School didn’t really answer the question; I was expansion. Mr. Speaker, construction is asking if he’d get his staff into the scheduled to start in February 2017 and community. But I can ask that a little bit is going until the school year ends in later on. Mr. Speaker, with the June 2017. They feel that there is no construction happening to the school, space in the community that will has the department come up with a plan accommodate all the school-aged to house the students during this students during this time and they’re construction phase? concerned that the students are going to miss out a lot of school while the HON. ALFRED MOSES: I thought the construction is occurring. Mr. Speaker, Member had asked if I was going to be they feel it is going to be very noisy and willing to work with PWS and I did not safe for the children. I have some answer that one, and of course, our staff questions for the Minister of Education, will go into the community and work with Culture and Employment. Is the Minister the community and the school board. of Education, Culture and Employment We’ll get our superintendent in there. I’m willing to work with the Minister of Public also willing to make a commitment to go Works to ensure that their staff gets into into the community and see for myself the community to discuss the and work with Public Works and construction schedule since the last time Services moving forward. Unfortunately, they were in the community was May as the Member had stated in his 2015? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. preamble to the questions, space is an issue. We will be doing a phased-in MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of approach when we’re working, making Education, Culture and Employment. the renovations and the work that needs to be done while construction has been HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you. happening. With the phased-in Mr. Speaker and yes, some of the 12 approach, the students will be housed in are doing in Moose Kerr School and in one section of the school while work is our other communities and we’re looking being done. Then, on the second phase, at the capital planning studies for they’ll be moved into the other part of providing facilities and safe facilities for the school while work is being done and students. We want to make sure that we will be doing it within the best we’re doing it in the right way in terms of interests of the students of the staff, to safety and environmental protections, so make sure that the least disruption will yes, the same commitment. We’ll work be happening as we’re making these with the school and the community and renovations to this school. Thank you, with Public Works and Services to Mr. Speaker. ensure that we’re doing this in the proper way it’s supposed to be done. MR. THOMPSON: I thank the Thank you, Mr. Speaker. government, Mr. Speaker and I thank the Minister for his answer. Mr. Speaker, MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. can the Minister tell the House how the Member for Nahendeh. department is going to address such June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 23 issues as safety of the site and the MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. noise level during school hours that will Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. impact on the students? QUESTION 186-18(2): HON. ALFRED MOSES: The NORTHWEST TERRITORIES department, along with Public Works HOUSING CORPORATION and Services, will develop safe work COMMUNICATIONS STRATEGY plans and safety plans with accordance to the WSCC guidelines and approval. MR. BEAULIEU: Marci cho, Mr. As I mentioned, we want to try to do this Speaker. I have questions for the in the proper way. It’ll be a phased-in Minister, NWT Housing Corporation, approach and we’ll try to do it with the following my Member’s statement. I’d least disruption to the students and the like to ask if the Minister feels that the staff and try to adjust the noise issues Housing Corporation has an effective as we are developing these safe plans communications plan for the people that on the building of the school. they serve, specifically, the public housing clients at this point. I hear a lot MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. of people come to me and indicate that Member for Nahendeh. it was difficult for them to report their MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. income and they’re having trouble with Speaker and I thank the Minister for his that because they would pay 30 per cent answer. He’s kind of answered, but I’m of their gross income towards rent. I going to rephrase it a bit here. Will he know that hasn’t been the case for quite commit to a timeframe when his staff a few years that the maximum rent is and the DPW staff will get into the just a little over 19 per cent of their community, consult with them? He’s gross income, so I’d like to ask that already made a commitment to come in question to the Minister. Does she feel and I’m assuming we’re going to have to she has an effective communications do that in the fall because we’re in plan for the people in public housing? session right now, but will he commit to Thank you. a time frame when the staff from DPW MR. SPEAKER: Minister for NWT and Education get into the community Housing Corporation. and talk to the DEA and the council. Thank you. HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think at the GNWT HON. ALFRED MOSES: Yes and level that the Ministers and the Premier unfortunately, we are in session nearing have addressed, have identified that the end of the school year, but I’ve communication within all of our made a commitment to try to get out to departments is an area that we need to all the schools, all the communities over work further on. I have given direction to the course of my term and I will commit the Housing Corporation to develop a to going into Trout Lake, working with communication plan. Thank you, Mr. the community, see how we can get this Speaker. school built in the best possible way and you will bring staff in there. MR. BEAULIEU: Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask if the Minister would consider looking at developing a housing plan Page 24 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 which has all aspects of housing that we HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Yes, look at in the communities, meaning that the Housing Corporation is actually… they look at not only the public housing, The reason that we’re putting out the but all of the home ownership in the survey is to identify within each communities and all of the market community what they define as their housing and all of the staff housing in priorities because we do recognize that any particular community. I recognize one size does not fit all and we need to that this would be a difficult task in a take more of a community focus within place like Yellowknife and Hay River, our housing programs. We are open to Inuvik. In the small communities where looking at every program that we a high percentage of people are reliant currently provide and other options that on social housing, I’d like to ask if the the communities may put forward. Minister would develop a housing development plan for each community. MR. SPEAKER: Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Yes, the NWT Housing Corporation is MR. BEAULIEU: Marci cho, Mr. committed to doing a community Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask the housing development plan, specific for Minister has there been any discussion every community. We will be looking with her senior officials at the Housing within that to get answers from people Corporation towards developing a plan who live in the homes, the LHO’s within for what we’ve been talking about every community, the community through the mandate, aging-in-place for government and the staff of course, of seniors. Thank you. the corporation. As well, I will be asking HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Yes, feedback from our MLAs in, to also give the senior management within the NWT feedback into the questionnaires within Housing Corp. also recognizes the this survey before it is put out. aging-in-place for seniors issue is huge MR. BEAULIEU: Mr. Speaker, and that we need to address it. We are recognizing that the Housing taking a really proactive approach to Corporation has a number of programs actually providing housing so that to address the housing needs across people can age in place. the communities, I believe there are four MR. SPEAKER: Oral questions. main home ownership programs. Member for Yellowknife North. There’s market housing initiatives. There are other staff housing initiatives QUESTION 187-18(2): and of course, public housing also. I’d IMPROVEMENTS TO HOUSING like to know if within the point when the CORPORATION Minister is doing the community housing development plans, if there’s any MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, Mr. contemplation that perhaps it could Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier I spoke change the programs and change the about the challenges of housing faced way they try to address core need at the by the residents of the Northwest community level. Thank you. Territories and so did many of my colleagues. My questions, of course, are for the Minister of the NWT Housing June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 25

Corporation. Mr. Speaker, in its 2008 works a year in advance to identify the audit of the NWT Housing Corporation, land needs for the following year’s the Auditor General said, “we believe projects. One of the strategies we also that good planning and relevant use is the buildings that need to be performance measures will assist the demolished. We consider that when corporation to identify and address its we’re looking at new buildings, and so challenges, engage the corporation’s often we’ll take out a unit to put in a new progress in meeting the housing needs unit within that, on that land. of all Northwest Territories residents.” Can the Minister explain: what are the MR. SPEAKER: Oral questions. key components of the department’s Member for Yellowknife North. approach currently to improving housing MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, Mr. in the NWT? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Speaker. Thank you to the Minister for MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of NWT her reply. Lastly, Mr. Speaker, what is Housing Corporation. the department doing to reduce dependence on public housing and to HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank promote independent home ownership, you, Mr. Speaker. The key component particularly in the non-market to addressing housing within the NWT at communities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. this point for the NWT Housing Corporation is to utilize the community HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: We do survey that we will be sending out to have a program currently, called the identify the needs within each PATH program that is providing community and developing our plan assistance to territorial homeownership based on each community’s identified programs, that people can actually priorities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. purchase homes within the communities. There’s different rates MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you to the depending on the community. We do an Minister for her reply. Mr. Speaker, is assessment of the building, based on the department’s work on improving the community and then the… I mean, housing still being guided by its April sometimes actually the units are actually 2012 strategic framework document? given just for the land costs. We’re revisiting that as well because we do HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: At this recognize that very soon the operating point, the strategic plan is actually and maintenance money, CMHC expired, so we’re looking to do the new funding, will be expiring. We need to plan and then of course the surveys will come up with a plan. We’re kind of be utilized to develop our new plan. looking at ideas around more home MR. VANTHUYNE: Mr. Speaker, what ownership programs and just seeing if is the department doing to work with we can work within the different communities to make sure land is communities to help them to give them accessible for developing more the infrastructure so that they can take housing? more ownership upon their own. HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: The MR. SPEAKER: Oral questions. NWT Housing Corporation land section Member for Kam Lake. Page 26 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

QUESTION 188-18(2): insured services, Mr. Speaker, and are SUPPORTING HOUSING FIRST core programs and they're available to CLIENTS all residents of the Northwest Territories. As far as costing, if demand for the MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. services by the Housing First clients Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe in results in financial pressures for the Housing First, and I believe for Housing system, this will be addressed through First to work, our government needs to the business planning process. But at play a very important part in the this time, we're not anticipating any provision of central, clinical, medical additional costs because the city's services to support the clients. My planning to ramp up their Housing First question today is for the Minister of from a low intake in the beginning to I Health and Social Services. Concerns think it's up to 20 by the end of the have been raised that the department program. We'll have time to figure out may not be providing these services to what those costs will be. If there is a clients and support the model. Can the desire to provide some additional on-site Minister confirm of the status of the clinical services, this is something that provision of these services? Thank you, we may also have to have some Mr. Speaker. additional conversation about MR. SPEAKER: Minister of Health and incremental funding on. Thank you, Mr. Social Services. Speaker. HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: Thank you, MR. TESTART: Thank you to the Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Housing Minister for the answer. How will the First Program includes providing department be reviewing the provision participating clients with what has been of these services to ensure that they're termed wraparound services. provided in a timely manner and are Discussions have been had between the effectively supporting the program? Department of Health and Social HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: Mr. Services and the City of Yellowknife, Speaker, that's going to really involve where the City of Yellowknife has what the RFP ends up coming back clarified that the intent of their Housing looking like that the city has currently First proposal is to have 24/7 issued. From there, we'll be able to have supervision and support of clients on the conversation on how we're going to site. That does not mean or does not continue or enhance the services that include on-site clinical services 24/7. we're providing, and as I said, some of The Department of Health and Social this might involve some on-site Services has committed both publicly outreach, which we're absolutely open and in meetings with the city to ensure to doing once we've quantified what it's that all required clinical supports be going to look like. Until we know that, we made available to all Housing First don't really know what it's going to look clients through the city's proposed like. We're looking forward to having Housing First program. These may those conversations with the city so that include medical treatment, mental health we can build a model here in services, addictions counselling, or cooperation with the city that works and addictions treatment. All of these are is effective. June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 27

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. the Housing First project. How will the Speaker. Is the Minister willing to department be addressing commit, at this point, to providing homelessness moving forward in other additional health resources or funding, communities outside of Yellowknife, as required, to support this program across the territories, and providing the moving forward? same kind of support to clients who are without homes? Thank you, Mr. HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: Thank you, Speaker. Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated we don't believe, at this time, it's going HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: Mr. to take some additional funding. We Speaker, the Department of Health and need to actually get into the program Social Services is not the only with the City of Yellowknife to figure out department working on this and we are how it's going to roll out. As the demand not going to be able to solve the ramps up, we might require some problem, but we can be part of the additional funding, at which point we are solution, working with communities, going to come back to the business working with other departments. In planning process and have that Yellowknife, there are a couple of things discussion with committee. Mr. Speaker, that were identified at the housing the department was an active participant forum, the homelessness forum, that at the April homelessness community was held a couple weeks ago. Some partnership forum and is participating in areas for critical work that we're working the two different working groups that on is addressing the shelter hour gap were mentioned in this House here in Yellowknife; that's one of the previously. One of the working groups, issues that was identified. We anticipate under the leadership of the city, is this might require some additional sorting through recommendations from funding, which we'll be coming back to the forum to identify priorities, cost out have discussions with committee. We the priorities and establish a roadmap also want to be able to make sure that moving forward. We're clearly a part of the program that the city is proposing that, as is the Housing Corp., as is the involves properly, as I've already Department of Education, Culture and indicated, and that we're working closely Employment, and we will certainly be with the city. We also need to explore working together. There are some areas options for harm reduction programs to for critical action and we would be support clients in Yellowknife, including happy to discuss those with committee things like a wet shelter or a managed as we move forward. drinking program, and work with other partners to see how this might fit into the MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. roadmap for action. Once we've done Member for Kam Lake. that work and we've applied it in MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Yellowknife where we have real Speaker, and I for one appreciate that demand, it is something that we the department is being proactive and certainly can look at exploring in other the government's being proactive in the communities and regions throughout the support; it's music to my ears. We know Northwest Territories, but we do have to that the department will be supporting start somewhere. I can also say that the Page 28 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

Housing Corp. is currently working to the September 1, 2016 effective date of provide some shelters in communities the Deline Final Self-Government outside of Yellowknife; they're looking at Agreement, the tri-party Deline self- Aklavik, Fort Simpson, and Behchoko government implementation working right now. Work is happening, Mr. group is responsible for overseeing the Speaker. More work is required. It's completion of the tri-party work that will going to take the will of both sides of this need to be completed prior to effective House to get this done and it's going to date. The GNWT has been assisting take some creativity and partnerships Deline and preparing for the effective with cities, communities, hamlets, as date by providing income support in well as other governments. areas which it has expertise, such as elections, government operations, and MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. land administration. MACA and Member for Sahtu. Aboriginal Affairs have also formed a bilateral working group with the Deline QUESTION 189-18(2): self-government transition team. This IMPLEMENTING THE DELINE bilateral work is intended to provide COMMUNITY SELF- support and assistance to Deline in GOVERNMENT AGREEMENT preparing for self-government and to MR. MCNEELY: Thank you, Mr. keep one another apprised of progress Speaker. Today I ask the Minister on their respective pre-effective date responsible for self-government, Mr. activities. In addition, HR and Public Bob McLeod, on the preparation Works and Services have been initiatives underway from the pre- providing support in the area of human implementation leading up to the Deline resource planning, policy reviewing, and self-government in the next two and a information technology. The half months. What undertaking is Departments of Aboriginal Affairs and underway to assure this Assembly Intergovernmental Relations and Lands there's going to be a smooth transition? and the Deline self-government Thank you, Mr. Speaker. transition team have formed a bilateral lands implementation working group to MR. SPEAKER: Honourable Premier. ensure that all matters related to the HON. BOB MCLEOD: Thank you, Mr. transfer of Commissioner's lands to the Speaker. As the Member is aware, the Deline Got'ine Government are Deline Final Self-Government completed before the effective date. Agreement will be coming into effect on Thank you, Mr. Speaker. September 1, 2016. That will become MR. MCNEELY: Is this working group the first self-government agreement to going to be looking after the remaining be negotiated in the Northwest Sahtu communities for their self- Territories on a community basis. In government initiatives? fact, earlier this week the Deline Got'ine Government held its first election and HON. BOB MCLEOD: I would say that, have elected Raymond Tutcho as its overall, self-government negotiations in first chief. The GNWT is working the Sahtu Settlement Area are going collaboratively with Deline and with the very well with several significant Government of Canada to prepare for June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 29 milestones having been reached at the Honourable Premier if he wishes to several tables recently. answer. MR. MCNEELY: If things are underway HON. BOB MCLEOD: Thank you, Mr. and going smoothly, can I get a copy of Speaker. I'm pleased to report that in the negotiating schedule, Mr. Speaker? Colville Lake, with the Deline Got'ine, we are in a pilot project for fast-tracking HON. BOB MCLEOD: In Tulita, the self-government negotiations, and I negotiators for the parties recently expect that we'll all benefit from that. completed a draft self-government Thank you, Mr. Speaker. agreement-in-principle, which is currently undergoing internal review. I MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. expect to have the honour of signing the Member for Yellowknife Centre. Tulita self-government agreement-in- principle in the coming weeks. The QUESTION 190-18(2): Deline Got'ine of Colville Lake self- REDUCING THE NEED FOR government negotiation process and EMERGENCY SHELTER schedule agreement was signed in 2014 SERVICES and negotiations on agreement-in- MS. GREEN: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. principle are well underway. Fort Good Speaker, my statement today dealt with Hope self-government agreement the issue of migration and how there will negotiations, they've reached an always be some need for emergency agreement on a process and schedule shelters in Yellowknife, but probably and agreement and expect it to be signed hopefully not to the extent that they are very soon. We are ready to begin available now. My question for the negotiations with Fort Good Hope and Minister responsible for Homelessness Canada as soon as possible, and is: what planning is she doing with the Norman Wells negotiations are working shelters to reduce their bed nights over towards completing a full draft of an AIP, time? Thank you. and I'll make this information available to the Member. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister responsible for Homelessness. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. Member for Sahtu. HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There's actually a few MR. MCNEELY: Thank you, Mr. things that we're doing to reduce the Speaker. My last question is that I look shelter bed nights, the amount of people forward to working with the Minister to that are staying in the shelters within the conclude the schedule so we can have Yellowknife community. For one, we are target dates before us here to ensure working with the City of Yellowknife with that these dates are met, and any their Housing First project. We're also supports that we can provide from this working with the shelters to implement a Assembly to ensure that there's an open Housing First project within their own so and transparent negotiating table in the that they can move some of the people process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. that are in their units into more of an MR. SPEAKER: I didn't hear a question; independent living structure. Finally, we more of a comment. However, I'll allow are working within the communities as Page 30 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 well to implement emergency shelters Mr. Speaker, to give a specific example within the community, three identified here, the Housing First project in this year, so that they will have options Yellowknife plans to house 20 people in and they don't have to migrate to the next three years. Does that mean Yellowknife simply because they have there will be a decline in the shelter no place to live. Thank you, Mr. capacity of 20 people? Speaker. HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank MS. GREEN: Thank you to the Minister you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to be able for that answer. A dimension of my to say yes, that there would be a decline question is whether the Minister can by 20 people. However, in the short foresee a time when funding for period of time that I have been a emergency shelters will decline because Minister, I have noticed that there's been Housing First has taken effect in an increase within homeless people Yellowknife. within the community. I am not as optimistic, and I would have to say that HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: That's probably this is going to be a long- actually a very difficult question because standing issue that we will have to I recognize that the term of the dedicate a lot of time within the next, not government is only four years, which only the four years, but for a longer doesn't give us a lot of time and really period. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. hard to evaluate during that period of time. I am hoping that the next MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. Legislative Assembly will carry forward Member for Yellowknife Centre. the work and to move forward within the Housing First model and to get people MS. GREEN: Thank you to the Minister more independently housed. There will for that. One approach that is taken in always be a need for emergency Calgary is to make it as a goal that shelters though, and that's just the people who live in emergency shelters reality of shelters throughout the world, won't spend more than five days there, and especially within the Northwest that they have a rapid rehousing Territories because this community of program. Can the Minister envision Yellowknife is a very transient setting a goal of that kind where there is community with our mines, et cetera. a commitment that people will stay in We're a magnet community. That was emergency shelters for short periods of acknowledged by the Member in her time so that they aren't stuck on the opening statement, so there will always housing continuum the way they are be a need for emergency shelters within now? our community but, hopefully, as she HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank stated, that will go down as long as we you, Mr. Speaker. Again, I would really are more proactive in trying to move love to be able to say that there would people, give them the skills and the be a goal within a short period that says assets so that they can live that people would not stay in emergency independently. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. shelters for five years. However, like we MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, had stated, we are working in and thank you to the Minister for that. partnership with the City of Yellowknife. Within three years, they plan to have 20 June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 31 people housed, within the shelter those homes up by barge and stuff. format, we're looking to have 30 people, There is still transport whether we use it that's only 50 people. Even after those to take the materials from the South or people are housed, we will still have a to bring the modular homes; there would huge population of people that are still be a transportation cost within that, homeless, so I think that the goal of five the amount I cannot state at this time. days within a shelter is still a ways off. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. BLAKE: Mr. Speaker, as I MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. mentioned, the community's been Member for Mackenzie Delta. waiting. You know, there's going to be other challenges with NTCL having their QUESTION 191-18(2): challenges as well. What is the COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH department planning as an alternative to MODULAR HOMES getting these units shipped up to the communities? MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, follow-up to my Member's HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: The statement, I have two questions for the NWT Housing Corporation is well aware Minister of Housing. I'll use Tsiigehtchic of the issues of the one barge going into as the first example, because this is the some of the northern communities, and first community that was approved to so we are really being proactive and have a modular home sent to the trying to get all of our material for this community. Mr. Speaker, it's been 10 year actually ready and to be shipped months our community has been waiting on the next NTCL boat that's going out. to have this unit that's supposed to be shipped to the community in the fall. Mr. MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Speaker, there has to be added costs, Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned also, we're and I'm sure we wouldn't find that out losing upwards of 20 jobs in our until the fall, by the time we actually get communities as a result of this. How can the unit in Tsiigehtchic. I'd like to ask the the corporation justify putting these Minister what savings are we having people out of work, Mr. Speaker? Our getting these modular homes shipped small communities depend on these up to our remote communities? Thank units being built in our communities; it's you, Mr. Speaker. plain and simple. The employment rate is going to stay below 35 per cent MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of NWT because we're losing these jobs, Mr. Housing Corporation. Speaker, so how can the department justify that? HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the modular HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank homes were purchased, prior to my term you, Mr. Speaker. As stated, we do use and governance actually, we used the the Business Incentive Policy to bid process and there was substantial evaluate all proposals. We have sent savings, over 30 per cent savings, with out new proposals for this year and, using the modular homes. The cost of coincidentally, the majority of all of the transportation, although there may be proposed proponents came in are some differences, we still have to get actually northern businesses. This round Page 32 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 will actually be all northern businesses. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. As well though, I do want to mention Member for Frame Lake. that the NWT Housing Corporation does recognize that we need to have jobs in QUESTION 192-18(2): the community. In an effort to provide MIDWIFERY SERVICES jobs within each community and also to MR. O'REILLY: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have better access to the corporation know that the Minister of Health is and to our services, we actually employ feeling a little bit under the weather 128 people in the communities through today, so I've got some easy questions our LHO local housing organization that I hope will make him feel a lot program. We chose to leave it within the better. Mr. Speaker, my questions are communities and not make government about midwifery. The 2012 midwifery positions, so that they are community- report recommended creation of based programs and community-based midwifery positions in regional centres, jobs. One hundred and twenty-eight including Yellowknife. Whether a people within the communities are regional or territorial model is pursued, employed through that one initiative. positions should be staffed in MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. Yellowknife. Will the Minister commit to Member for Mackenzie Delta. bring forward funds in the 2017-18 business plan to staff positions for a MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. midwifery program based in Mr. Speaker, the numbers the Minister Yellowknife? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. just gave me, that's throughout the whole territory, Mr. Speaker. I'm talking MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of about the small communities here, you Health and Social Services. know, my riding, three communities: HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: Thank you, Fort McPherson, Aklavik, and Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, our goal is to Tsiigehtchic. We're losing 20 positions build this on the success of the existing here. I hope the department isn't midwifery programs, to enhance access planning to carry on this sort of practice to birthing services, both pre- and post- here, because look at that, 10 months natal care, and begin work on the we've been waiting, Mr. Speaker. We development of a territorial midwifery could have built at least three to four program. We are doing that work now. times the amount of units while we've We have been able to hire two been waiting, Mr. Speaker. How long is midwifery consultants, which proved the department going to carry on this incredibly difficult. We had some practice? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. significant turnover in that area, which HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Again, really delayed our ability to move as stated, we are trying to support forward with the midwifery review that I northern businesses. The next round had indicated in the previous that came in are all northern businesses government. We have those consultants that have applied. We didn't get any in place, they are going through and southern people that have applied for they're working on evaluation them, so you will see a change within frameworks, one that's being done in this fiscal year. Hay River. They're also working on a June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 33 consultation schedule to go out and remember is that bringing in midwifery have some engagement with services does not actually help us or stakeholders, not to reinvestigate it, but result in a reduced number of physicians to help us develop a territorial model. that are available in the Northwest The report that the Member is referring Territories. There are no cost savings to gave us a number of different models with respect to midwifery services to explore; that was territorial, regional, replacing physicians' services. and community-based. We have two Physicians are still a key component of community-based models. We have one birthing in the Northwest Territories regional model. Now we're looking at even with our existing midwifery developing the territorial model. We're services that we are providing in doing the work this Assembly, this fiscal different communities. It doesn't mean year. I can't say for sure that we'll be in that births that are difficult, complicated, a position to come forward for financial or that they think there's going to be submissions for the 2017-18 fiscal year. challenges with still don't come into a We will try, but I make no guarantees. regional centre. Many of the births that There's a significant amount of work that are being facilitated still happen in needs to be done. We do have to Yellowknife, even though a lot of the compete against other priorities. In order pre- and post-natal care is being for us to get money for this, we do have provided. This does not mean that I to look at where that money's going to don't support midwifery services. I've come from, and look at other areas been involved in implementation of where we may have to make reductions midwifery long before I was an MLA. I in order to make this a possibility. Thank actually helped write the job you, Mr. Speaker. descriptions, I helped on the implementation of the Hay River model. MR. O'REILLY: I appreciate the answer I believe in the service, but we've got to from the Minister and would like to try to make sure it's costed properly, we need help him try to find some money for that. to have a territorial program design Midwifery, because I've asked the that's going to meet the needs, Minister questions regarding cost recognizing that people are still going to savings, how they could be achieved by have to travel in and physicians are still relying on community-based midwifery a key part of the process. Midwives rather than pediatric care. His response don't result in reduced numbers of was that boarding and travel costs have physicians in the Northwest Territories. not been included in the analysis done to date. Boarding and travel costs seem MR. O'REILLY: In the area of midwifery to be some of the biggest costs for the services, Nunavut appears to be ahead current approach. Will the Minister of the Northwest Territories in meeting consider these costs as part of the birthing service needs. Nunavut staffs consultations to take place this year on midwives in the regional centres of expansion of midwifery services? Cambridge Bay, Rankin Inlet, and Iqaluit, which seems to be at least partly HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: Thank you, based on cost savings. Would the Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, all costs will Minister agree that having an NWT be factored into our analysis. One thing midwifery program focused on regional that the Member does need to Page 34 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 centres, including Yellowknife, would Minister commit that he will fast track likely result in some cost savings, or will these consultations that he's talking he research the Nunavut model to about this summer, to bring forward final investigate this? recommendations and an implementation plan as soon as HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: Thank you, possible? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, midwives provide both pre- and post-natal. Much MR. SPEAKER: Minister of Health and of the birthing that's happening in Social Services. Nunavut is still happening in other centres. For instance, many of the births HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: Mr. that are coming out of Kitikmeot are Speaker, I feel that although we did actually happening here in Yellowknife. have some delays, now that we have We need to look at the whole picture. our positions in place, finally we are able We can't just look at little pieces and to get some qualified applicants to do components of it. The pre- and post- the work. They are going at this as natal portion of the services that the quickly as they can. This isn't their only midwives are providing is amazing job. They're also working on the services and provides better results evaluation frameworks that are being when we're actually looking at building put in place in Hay River. If we're going stronger families and having healthier to continue to roll out these programs, families and kids. I mean, we support we must be evaluating the work that's the initiative; we're trying to find a way to being done; they're doing that important make it happen. We have to build a work. They're also working with territorial plan. We'll build it and we'll physicians and the practitioners in Fort have to come forward to this House and Smith, Hay River, and Inuvik, learning seek some support and some financial from what they're doing, and as I've support to make this a reality, but at the already indicated, we're fully going to end of the day, midwifery services is engage with stakeholders as we design going to have to compete against all the this territorial model. The report gave us other priorities that are coming up in this options for three different models, but it House for additional money. This is didn't actually describe what those housing. This is all these other types of models would look like or how they things that are coming. We believe it would be rolled out or how they would has value and we'll bring forward the be funded. That work needs to be done. case at the appropriate time. Thank you, We need to build a business case; we Mr. Speaker. need to do that in cooperation with the physicians and other stakeholders. It's MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. going to take time. It is being done as Member for Frame Lake. quickly as it can. I can't guarantee we'll have something for the business plans MR. O'REILLY: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker, next October, I believe it is, but we will and I appreciate the response from the do our best. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Minister. But we've been talking about this for almost 10 years now, and we MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. only really have midwifery services Member for Deh Cho. available in two communities. Can the June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 35

QUESTION 193-18(2): have to board up homes because of RESPONSIBILITIES jurisdictional messes between ASSOCIATED WITH FIRST governments and First Nations NATIONS HOUSING communities. Recently, there has been steps in terms of trying to sort out the MR. NADLI: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Thank jurisdictions, the red tape, to try to bring you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier in my housing to citizens that need it, statement, I talked about treaty rights particularly on the Hay River Reserve. and obligations that are encumbered by Could the Minister update this House in the federal government and also the terms of ensuring that progress has GNWT. My question is to the Minister of been made on that front, and ensuring the Housing Corporation. Treaties of housing for people that need them, at NWT are by nature bilateral between the same time explain the role of the First Nations and the Government of Minister and the department in terms of Canada, and on the south of 60, we working with First Nations? have a direct relationship between the federal government and First Nations in HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: their communities in terms of their Specific to the Hay River Reserve, there responsibilities to their citizens. Up here was an issue where there were units in the North, we have federal transfer that sat empty for many years because payments that are received by the of land tenure. When I came into government on behalf of the people of governance, and prior to me as well, it the NWT, but also for First Nations. Now was brought up as an issue. We worked my question to the Minister: since taking on it very diligently, and I'm really over responsibility of housing from the pleased to report actually that we’ve federal government, what treaty negotiated with the federal government obligations does the GNWT have for our so that we do have land tenure and that First Nations in terms of housing? we can actually put those units to use Mahsi. within the community. There are still more... I think there's four more; I may MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of NWT be incorrect. But I think that we're still Housing Corporation. looking at working with that with the HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank federal government to try to get all of the you, Mr. Speaker. My understanding is units so that we can actually use those that the treaty does state that the within the Hay River Reserve. Because government will provide housing. I'm in agreement: it's really inappropriate However, the treaty does not state that that these units are being stagnated housing will be free within that treaty. because of the tri-lateral agreements Thank you, Mr. Speaker. that we had in place. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. NADLI: I'd like to thank the Minister for saying that, and perhaps, you know, MR. NADLI: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. the issue's not as simple as that. For It's sometimes almost like a puzzle in example, in terms of jurisdictions, you terms of ensuring the immediate needs know, sometimes because of and critical needs of people are met. jurisdictions we get caught up in red That's the obligation of this government tape. Sometimes the fact is that we that we have in terms of taking over Page 36 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 responsibility from the federal MR. NADLI: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. government and ensuring that There has been a lot of progress in communities and families do receive terms of selfdetermination of First houses. In terms of working with First Nations communities, ensuring they Nations, you know… Some aspire to have responsibility for their citizens, and ensure that homeownership is a critical housing is one aspect of that. Could the need, and that's their focus, but Minister provide an overview to this side sometimes public housing, you know, of the House in terms of how it's working people would rent their houses for a with First Nations communities that long time and not really perhaps aspire aspire to have selfgovernment to own their own homes. What are the agreements with the Government of long-term goals of the GNWT in respect Canada and what its role is? to self-government of First Nations in regards to housing? Mahsi. HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: None of the community governments have HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank approached me and said that they were you, Mr. Speaker. Selfgovernance is an looking to take on housing, but I know aspect that I actually take personally, that it is something that we need to do in and that I do respect and honour and the future. Any of the governments that believe it is the right way to support First is actually wanting to take on the Nations people and give them back housing role, I am more than willing to ownership of their people and all of their support them with that, understanding culture, et cetera. I am committed to that I don't want to set people up to fail, working closely with the First Nations so I don't want to just dump it on them. I communities and seeing what we can want to make sure that we have a solid do to provide them, because at some plan that they can have the capacity to point within selfgovernance, there will be able to take it on and succeed with come a time, maybe not in this that, and I would love to have a pilot government, but soon, that they will government. If anyone wants to come need to take ownership of all of their forward, that would be wonderful. Thank services, housing, child protection, you, Mr. Speaker. income support, all of those things. The more tools that we can give them MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. beforehand so that they are successful Member for Nunakput. in that, the better off they will be. I am QUESTION 194-18(2): starting to give consideration about what ULUKHAKTOK ARENA type of tools and how we will work REMEDIATION toward it, how we will work with the self- governments so that they have the tools MR. NAKIMAYAK: Thank you, Mr. that they need so that when they are Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier I spoke ready to take on housing. We will set about the Ulukhaktok arena closure. My them up to succeed. Thank you, Mr. questions are for the Minister of MACA. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my first question is: what is the Department of Municipal and MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. Community Affairs doing to assist Member for Deh Cho. June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 37

Ulukhaktok with their remediation of its and dealing with it. We make our people arena? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. available to them for any type of advice or technical assistance we can provide. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of As to what the actual cost is of the Municipal and Community Affairs. remediation, Mr. Speaker, my HON. ROBERT MCLEOD: Yes, thanks, understanding is public tender was led Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the fall of for the remediation work through the 2015, the Hamlet of Ulukhaktok Hamlet of Ulukhaktok with a consulting identified mould issues in their arena company they are working with, and the facility. They had arrangements with the tenders are actually closing on Friday, consulting company on an existing June 10th. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. project in the community, and while they MR. NAKIMAYAK: I thank the Minister were there, they engaged them to help for that answer. The importance of them deal with the mould, so they have having recreation activities, especially done that. A regional office, we were in far up north in small communities is very communication with them. We were important, especially in the isolated comfortable with the approach that they areas that we live in. My region is were taking, so we left that with them. furthest north in the territory and the As to what MACA is doing to help the impacts are native in very many ways. system, we provide the community Mr. Speaker, my final question: will the infrastructure funding that they are able Minister commit to assist the hamlet to utilize, but at the end of the day, the council to address this issue so that the community of Ulukhaktok took people of Ulukhaktok will be skating and ownership of this, and they took steps to curling this fall? ensure that it was dealt with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. MR. NAKIMAYAK: Mr. Speaker, my second question to the Minister is, and I HON. ROBERT MCLEOD: Yes, thank appreciate the answer, my question is: you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I take has the department reviewed the the Member's point. We know the consultant's report and discussed the recreational facilities are very important issues with the Hamlet of Ulukhaktok, to a lot of smaller communities, and I and what are the costs associated with know a community like Ulukhaktok the remediation? utilizes their facility quite often. We will make ourselves available to the HON. ROBERT MCLEOD: Yes, thank community of Ulukhaktok should they you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have seek any advice. They are managing not reviewed the consultant's report. the issue. They are managing the Again, that was a decision that was project. They are providing our regional made by the community of Ulukhaktok, office with key milestone times and if they had any questions or if they throughout the project, and my needed any assistance, then all they understanding is the work is expected to have to do is call our office and we will be completed in this summer and fall, so provide whatever assistance we can. they should be open for the winter But a shout out to the community of season. Ulukhaktok for taking ownership in this Page 38 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. $150 million in the budget, with a big Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns chunk of that coming this year, 201617. to written questions. Item 10, reply to To this day, I don't know why the Commissioner's opening address. Item government did that or whose idea it 11, replies to budget address, day six of was. I know it wasn't mine. The worst seven. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh. case I heard during the 17th Assembly doesn't even come close to the cut of 7. Replies to Budget Address $150 million, so I guess I have to blame the current government, current MR. BEAULIEU’S REPLY Cabinet, since they proposed this cut. MR. BEAULIEU: Thank you, Mr. Proposing this monster cut has a very Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have to important effect. It made us all focus on change the way we do business. I was the cut and how we could keep the really struck the other day when I heard damage to a minimum. I saw an editorial what some of the current Ministers said saying it should be pretty easy to cut about budget years ago when they were $150 million from the government's fat Regular Members. They wanted to budget, but it's not. They have it all change the way we do business. I know wrong. We are talking about people. We they are honourable and determined are talking about people's jobs, people and they must have tried to programs that people need. The bigger change the way we do business in the cut, the more pain it is going to government. cause, the more it hurts our economy, the more it impacts our population. We Mr. Speaker, we have now spent spend a lot of time and energy on this, months reviewing business plans, just keeping what we have now. When working on a budget we are considering you focus on cuts, you are not focused in the House. We all had input into it. on what you can build, what things you Even if we don't like it all, we feel we can do, or thinking outside the box. The contributed to things that the Finance fact is, when you are fighting cuts, you Minister has mentioned in his budget are only inside the box, and you can’t address, and I thank him for that. In even see daylight. You cannot change doing that work, we save a few jobs and the way we do business. some important programs that might have otherwise been cut. This is not a Mr. Speaker, I think when we talked small thing. Those jobs and programs about our priorities as 19 Members, we cost millions of dollars. We did that for were talking about what we want to do. the good of the people of our territory. What we wanted to do most, what I We should be proud of that. I am proud wanted to do most was create jobs, of that and probably the Minister of especially at the community level. I want Finance is too. more jobs available to people so people have something to work for, some goals I think the Finance Minister knows that they can reach and to be proud of, so we did our best, but that is not good they can live well and do what they want enough. We have to change the way we to do. I want to do things that help do business. To start with, I think it was people get jobs. That could be better a huge mistake. The government went education. That could be onthejob out on a major campaign to cut June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 39 training in daycares, addictions we did that, the kids will do better in treatment, you name it. For babies and school. “Right from the Start,” as our toddlers, it might be early childhood Education Minister says. We have to do development. We all raise our kids the it, not just say it. We have to do it. On best we can, and we want them to grow top of that, the parents of those kids up to be healthy and get good jobs. Mr. could find work or upgrade their own Speaker, if we could do one thing to skills to find work. Mr. Speaker, we need change the way we do business, it to invest in our youth in the communities should be to create jobs in small where we have no youth crime. When communities. Let’s set some targets for we see a community doing right for the employment and figure out how to get to youth, we should provide them the those targets. Can you imagine if the support necessary. In one community employment rate in small communities where there has been no youth in court was 70 per cent instead of 40 per cent? for several years, they want to start their There would be very little need for own community development. They income support. There would be less needed support from this government to reliance on social housing. There would do two or three major capital projects, be less demand for health care. I have but that was not in the government’s often said, “give people jobs and you will plans. Shifting things around to support see the jails and the hospitals empty out that community could not be done. The and the schools fill up.” I’m telling you government did not have the will. this from my own experience. If you go to small communities and see what’s It is on the other end of the spectrum, going on, the people can’t afford to buy our population is aging, and we need to gas for their skidoos to go hunting. Mr. take care of our elders. We should be Speaker, when you shoot a moose, that doing everything we can so our elders moose is basically worth seven to eight can age in place in their own homes in thousand dollars to the family. That's their own communities. It might take a what you save on groceries, and it's like few simple things: a ramp, better railing, having a big cheque in your hand. It some basic homecare. Mr. Speaker, a hurts me when I see a good hunter that twohour visit to our elders a few times a cannot afford gas that he needs to put week or every day would cost less than food on the family’s tables. We should moving that elder to a home somewhere be doing something about it besides else, and it would be a lot better for putting that hunter on income support them. This is what our elders want, and and forcing him to ask the government this is how life is lived in our to maintain his house. communities. We should train our people who need to deliver home care, We know we could do this, and we building on local skills and knowledge, could do a lot more. We could put our including Aboriginal languages. We young adults to work. We could hire a know we need to do this, but there is no youth officer in every community. Mr. new money for home care. If you moved Speaker, we could start some daycares money around into home care, you may in our communities. That would create a actually stop the Health and Social few jobs. It would help young kids play Services budget from growing year after and learn, and get ready for school. If year. Page 40 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

Housing is another area that needs a lot serious cutting at the top. Millions of of work. Compared to the rest of dollars of programming may be cut, but Canada, we have a high percentage of not a single senior manager along with homes in core need. This is not good, it. That is, I am sorry to say, business as especially since we don’t have jobs for usual. I know a guy that always says, people that will enable them to take “cash flows uphill,” and I think that is themselves out of core need. On true. Mr. Speaker, I do not want our average, 20 per cent of our homes are entire term in office to be wiped out as in core need. An improvement is needed we focus on budget cuts. That is the in every community, including larger wrong focus. I do not want the business centres. But we can’t seem to do that. plan in the fall to be more of the same. I Why not? Mr. Speaker, let’s do things do not want next year’s budget address differently. One idea, for example, would to tell me we need a change. I want the be in the housing market communities. next budget address to tell me we need Let's provide $5,000 for the basic to change the way we do business, and improvements targeted to energy actually deliver on the promise. I do not efficient or barrier free. Upgrade the want to spread doom and gloom, homes up to $10,000, $20,000. People because our territory does not need could leverage this money, resulting in that. It's not true. My people do not spending two to four times greater than complain about the weather. We go out what the government’s contribution will there and we do what we need to do be. That would stimulate the economy, when the time is right, and the time is improve aging homes, create jobs, right now for us to change the way we reduce the number of homes in core do business. We have more than three need, and cut our greenhouse gas years left in our term. We need to emissions. All things we need to do. decide what we want to achieve, and go Instead of doing that, we spend our time out and do that. We don’t want to working on the budget trying to save achieve a bunch of reductions, existing jobs. We pushed the Minister especially reductions that take jobs from very hard and thought we got the people, Mr. Speaker. What we need is message across. But every day, we to create jobs, to create jobs that are hear layoffs are proceeding. We hear accessible to people that don’t have that casuals are losing their jobs. We jobs. We will need to help some of those hear that summer students are not people upgrade their skills, whether it’s being hired. We are cutting entrylevel through education, onthejob training, or jobs, and that is not right. The reality is: apprentices. We need to match what we all those losses disproportionately hurt are doing with the results we want to Aboriginal people in small communities. get. Mr. Speaker, when I hear fire crews are Mr. Speaker, our government must reconfigured, it really means some address our severe problem with firefighters do not get work. I never alcohol. The Department of Health and heard of a single senior manager being Social Services must provide more tools laid off. I don’t hear the departments to the communities to address alcohol getting by with one less deputy minister abuse. Six or seven years ago, I asked or fewer directors. There has been no a community health nurse, “what is the June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 41 greatest health risk to your community?” budget reflects some unfinished Without thinking about it for a second business around the mandate. Our she said, “alcohol.” She went on to talk problem is what then-vice president about the cost of alcohol to the health George Bush Sr. described as “the system, and I know all of those things vision thing.” As an interesting aside, I are true. We all know the cost of fetal want to provide some context for this alcohol spectrum disorder. A person quote. Bush was considering a run at with FASD is costing the system more the presidency as Ronald Reagan's than $1 million dollars over their lifetime. second term in office came to an end. In addition, consider the impact on their You might recall that Reagan was family and community. We also know known as “the Great Communicator,” that FASD is 100-per-cent preventable. but up to that point in 1987, Bush hadn't Mr. Speaker, supports must be put in been very effective in articulating what place to eradicate FASD. If we can do he stood for, so a friend suggested he that, we will see so many benefits. I spend some time thinking about his don’t know where to start listing them fundamental values and beliefs. Then off, but I’m going to sum it up. If we can he could tell voters where he wanted to really do that, we can change the way take them. Bush's response was we do business, and we will improve the dismissive. “Oh, the Vision Thing.” We situation for our grandchildren. 19 MLAs spent hours and days coming up with a mandate for this 18th Mr. Speaker, it was recently reported in Assembly. We looked at the transition the news that Canadians aged between documents our colleagues in the 17th left 50 and 75 will inherit $750 billion from us. We looked at the promises each of their parents over the next 10 years. us had made to voters. We considered The generation leaving us is the richest the briefings provided by government in history, but that is not the case in our departments, and our draft mandate got small communities. People that age bigger and bigger and bigger. The barely have enough money to feed mandate included a section called fiscal themselves. I want to close with this context, which made the case for cuts in point, Mr. Speaker, so that everyone order to generate a cash surplus to can think about it. This is our future, and invest in infrastructure. At that point, the we want to leave something positive for question of how much cash and what our young people. I think that we should infrastructure remained unanswered. do that. We need to change the way we We debated this point as a Caucus do business. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. without coming to a common ---Applause understanding of the issue. Government wanted it in. We Regular MLAs wanted MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Replies to it out. Ultimately, Regular MLAs voted to budget address, day six of seven, remove this section during the debate of Member for Yellowknife Centre. the mandate in February. MS. GREEN’S REPLY In hindsight, this debate turns out to be most significant, the most significant the MS. GREEN: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The Members of the 18th Assembly have had difference of opinion between Cabinet to date. Almost everything we have and Regular MLAs with the 201516 Page 42 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 done since has been related by the acceptable, and it is not clear how the government to the need to create a Finance Minister incorporated their surplus by making cuts to the responses in the budget he delivered government's operating budget. Despite last week. I will say the budget he taking out the fiscal context section, the delivered last week is the budget he discussion about the need for a $150- promised in February, a budget that million surplus didn't and won't go away. marched us towards a surplus so we The Minister of Finance told the House can invest in infrastructure. In the in February that, “unless we find a way meantime, between the February sitting to curtail our expenditures and/or grow of the House and the budget delivered our economy by approximately last week, Regular MLAs reviewed $150 million over the next five years, the business plans developed by each of GNWT will continue to use shortterm the departments and asked Ministers borrowing to pay for operating and department staff questions just the expenditures and to finance way we are now when we sit as infrastructure investment.” Committee of the Whole. It soon became clear through this process that The Minister of Finance also announced departments were also struggling with that there would be no new taxes, so the “the vision thing.” Cabinet gave them emphasis was on cuts. The regular targets for cuts. If there were principles MLAs interpreted this action as austerity for making cuts, it's not clear what they and warned they wanted to see greater were. I can't find a way to relate them to balance between generating new the mandate priorities which should revenue and cuts. The government have been the overarching guidance. introduced a revenue options paper that What we ended up with is a mixture of dismissed most ideas as unworkable staff and program reductions. It is as if because they would increase the cost of we went through the House to gather living. Still, we wanted the government stuff for a garage sale. Whoa, there's to take the public's advice on how to get this fondue set we got for a wedding this balance right. The Minister of present we never use. When was the Finance responded by setting up an last time anyone played this game? This email address backed by a smallscale was an expensive winter coat, but it awareness campaign to gather their never did fit properly. responses to four specific questions. They asked which programs and Without a clear vision at the top, there services could be cut, how to be more wasn't a vision to share with the civil efficient, which taxes to increase, but service about our common values and most importantly, the balance that I just there still isn't. As recently as midMay, discussed. The Minister tabled that Regular MLAs warned the government document with the budget last week. that they were unconvinced that There were 36 responses from generated a $150 million surplus was individuals and organizations, and I either realistic or necessary, yet in last would like to thank everyone who took week's budget, the Finance Minister the time to participate. The responses said, and I quote, “our target is don't represent a consensus on what to $150 million in savings or new revenues cut or whether new taxes are to establish a shortterm cash surplus June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 43 position by the end of the 18th update delivered in February, the Assembly.” Mr. McLeod goes on to Minister said, “unless we make changes report that the budget he presented last to expenditure management, we will not week represents 45 per cent of that have the fiscal resources to make total, so that means the exercise we've strategic economic investments, let just been going through is going to alone sustain current programs and come around again as soon as this fall services.” We have zigzagged from when business plans for the next fiscal talking about impending crisis to a year are presented to Regular MLAs, budget that, despite the cuts, delivers and once again, we will be balancing more spending than last years did. cuts against tax increases in order to During that evolution, people who live, generate a cash surplus to invest in work, and invest in the NWT worried infrastructure. about their future, the future of government services, and the future of There are some things we could do the territorial economy. Not that there differently next time starting with the aren't things to worry about with our “vision thing.” We as 19 MLAs need to volatile resourcebased economy and make another effort to come up with a th small population, but it's time to better common vision for this 18 Assembly. match words with the actions. We need The process that led us to create five to stop talking about an impending crisis priority areas, then 25 explanatory and start talking about what is being priorities, and 136 commitments is not delivered, which is incremental change. helping us in this budget process. We The budget address, I hope, will begin a need a strong, simple statement about new dialogue about our finances. what we are doing financially, and most importantly, we have to try to reach A fourth change is how to involve the consensus on this point. This is the first public in budgeting. Historically, the time we have attempted to create an Finance Minister has appeared at public overarching mandate on the basis of meetings to hear what voters have to agreed priorities, and it is fair to say it say in communities all around the NWT. hasn't totally worked. We need to learn He has met with lobby groups and from this and adjust the process. A NGOs to hear their thoughts. He has second change is to agree on what we encouraged the public to write emails are creating a surplus for. The Minister and letters. The Finance Minister needs has reported an infrastructure deficit of to ramp up his efforts, to gather public more than $3 billion. What are our input for the next budget. He also needs priorities within that need? Houses, to find a way to reflect the advice he's schools, health centers, roads? They being given. Consultation isn't only are all vying for position. We need to about listening. It's about synthesizing create and agree on a list of priorities the input into coherent direction and that reflect territorywide benefits. I don't making a clear response to the trends in disagree with building a road to Whati. I that direction, and above all, it's about just think the community needs housing being willing to change the end result. more. A third change is about how the government communicates what it is Mr. Speaker, we are, of course, going to doing with its budget. In the financial press on with our consideration of the budget that is now before us. It is a Page 44 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 budget that has more benefits than any TABLED DOCUMENT 57-18(2): of us expected, and some good ones NORTHWEST TERRITORIES such as increases to Student Financial STATE OF THE ENVIRONMENT Assistance, the creation of the NWT REPORT HIGHLIGHTS 2016 Child Benefit, and restructured daycare funding, to name a few that are HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: Mr. important to me. Before we look at the Speaker, I wish to table the following budget for the next fiscal year, we need document entitled “Northwest Territories to revisit our understanding of our fiscal State of the Environment Report context to see whether we can come to Highlights 2016.” Thank you, Mr. terms with “the vision thing.” Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Tabling of MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Replies to budget documents. Minister of Public Works address. Item 12, petitions. Item 13, and Services. reports of standing special committees. TABLED DOCUMENT 58-18(2): Item 14, reports of committees on the NORTH SLAVE RESILIENCY review of bills. Item 15, tabling of STUDY FINAL REPORT documents. Minister of Justice. HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Mr. 8. Tabling of Documents Speaker, I wish to table the follow document entitled “North Slave TABLED DOCUMENT 56-18(2): Resiliency Study Final Report.” Thank REPORT OF THE NORTHWEST you, Mr. Speaker. TERRITORIES JUDICIAL REMUNERATION COMMISSION MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Tabling of 2016 documents. Item 16, notices of motion. Item 17, notices of motion for first HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I wish to table reading of bills. Item 18, motions. Item the following document entitled “Report 19, first reading of bills. Item 20, second of the Northwest Territories Judicial reading of bills. Item 21, consideration in Remuneration Commission in 2016.” Committee of the Whole of bills and Thank you, Mr. Speaker. other matters with the Member for Hay MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Tabling of River North in the chair. documents. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources. CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON BILLS AND OTHER MATTERS CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I now call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Beaulieu? MR. BEAULIEU: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we wish to continue on with the consideration of Tabled Document 5018(2), Main June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 45

Estimates, 20162017. Mr. Chairman, we CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank would like to continue our deliberations you, Ms. Green. The Member is seeking on the Environment and Natural unanimous consent to return to page 87. Resources, and time permitting, get into Health and Social Services. Thank you, Unanimous consent granted Mr. Chairman. You may continue, Ms. Green. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. you, Mr. Beaulieu. Does committee Mr. Chair, today there are or have been, agree? We will continue consideration of since it's late in the day, 300 children in the document after a short break. Thank the Somba K’e Park here, in you. Yellowknife, for World Oceans Day, and ---SHORT RECESS the reason that they're there is because ENR has a public education program CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): I will that is aimed at teaching children and now call the Committee of the Whole people of all ages about the different back to order. We will continue with our aspects of the ENR mandate, such as consideration of Tabled Document wildlife, water, environmental protection, 5018(2), Government of the Northwest and so on. To that end, I'm very Territories Main Estimates, 20162017, dismayed by the proposed loss of the with the Department of ENR. Minister parttime public education specialist in Schumann, would you like to bring the department's field support unit, witnesses into the Chamber? which we spoke about yesterday when SergeantatArms, please escort the we were going through the corporate witnesses into the Chamber. Minister management section of the plan. The Schumann, would you please introduce loss of this position goes to principles your witnesses. that we do not want to see front line positions cut, especially a cut in HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: Thank headquarters which has repercussions you. To my left is Susan Craig, director for the whole of the NWT, and so, to that of finance. To my right, immediate right, end, I am wondering if the Minister will is Ernie Campbell, deputy minister, and consider reinstatement of that position. to my far right is Erin Kelly, assistant Therefore I have a motion that this deputy minister. committee strongly recommends that CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank the government take immediate action you, Minister Schumann. Welcome to reinstate funding in the amount of back, witnesses. Ms. Green. $21,000 for the proposed elimination of the public Education coordinator MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. position in the field support unit under Mr. Chair, I have a few remaining the Department of Environment and comments on the corporate Natural Resources under the corporate management activity that we agreed to management activity. Thank you, yesterday. Therefore, I seek unanimous Mr. Chair. consent to return to page 87 in the ENR estimates. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Ms. Green. A motion is on the floor Page 46 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 and is being distributed now. The motion known the people that have been in that is in order. To the motion. Ms. Green. position probably for most of the time I've been in Yellowknife, which is close COMMITTEE MOTION 30-18(2): to 30 years, or that have been involved TABLED DOCUMENT 50-18(2): particularly in that field. They do very MAIN ESTIMATES, 20162017, important work. I'm not sure if the MLA ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL for Yellowknife Centre talked about the RESOURCES, CORPORATE Tundra Science Camp that's run north of MANAGEMENT, OPERATIONS Yellowknife, where community elders EXPENDITURES (PG. 87), come in, and there are scientists there, REINSTATEMENT OF FUNDING as well. There are some wonderful FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION sharing experiences that take place with COORDINATOR IN FIELD youth, as well. That work is largely SUPPORT UNIT, coordinated by the education specialist CARRIED position and is something that I'd really like to see continue. I do support this MS. GREEN: Mr. Chair, as I said, I motion, and I would urge, certainly, all asked to return to this section because I the MLAs on this side of the House to feel that this position has tremendous support it and Cabinet colleagues, as value, not only to this region but to the well. Thank you, Mr. Chair. whole NWT. It is a program in which education is provided to people of all CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank ages. It is a winner of the Premier's you, Mr. O'Reilly. To the motion. Award in 2010 for ontheland training, Minister Schumann, would you like to and so the purpose of this motion is to speak to the motion? ask that this position be reinstated. I realize that we are not able to add HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: Thank money to the budget, but I'm asking for you, Mr. Chair. I want to speak to this agreement of the whole House that this based on the comments that the House position be reinstated and that we work has received. Upon reviewing all our out how the funding for that will happen positions for this up and coming budget at another point. Thank you, Mr. Chair. session, we reviewed these jobs, and, previous to the proposal of the reduction CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank of this one position, we had one and a you, Ms. Green. To the motion. half positions within our department for Mr. O'Reilly. this specific need. What we propose is we've eliminated the halftime position MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. I and, with decentralization, we've know that when the business plan came actually created one whole new forward to the Standing Committee on complete position for this in the South Economic Development and Slave, so we have more people serving Environment, I'm pretty sure I asked in this capacity than we did previously. about this position, and I was told by the We're actually going to have two fulltime department that they have other folks people committed to this versus one and that would pick up the work that this a half. Thank you, Mr. Chair. position would normally carry out, and I was a bit skeptical about that. I've June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 47

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank this covered off. He did say at the time you, Minister Schumann. To the motion. we have it covered off, or it would be Mr. Vanthuyne. covered off, and I, for one, take his word for it, and I don't think he would be MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, saying it if he didn't have any reasoning Mr. Chair. Just for clarification, are for it or trying to pull the wool over Members able to question the Minister committee's eyes. If he says that they're at this point, relative to his comments, or comfortable with this $21,000 reduction, is that not correct at this point in time? but the program is still going to be CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): covered off by existing folks, then we Procedurally, I'm being told that's not should take that at face value, and so allowed, Mr. Vanthuyne. We can only with that, Mr. Speaker, we will be voting speak to the motion. against the motion. MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you. In the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank spirit of understanding what the Member you, Minister McLeod. To the motion. I is presenting in the motion is, what I see no more comments. We will would believe all of us want as it relates proceed to the vote. Question has been to making sure that the programs that called. I'll call upon Ms. Green to are relative to those positions are still conclude debate on the motion. going to be fully delivered, what I'm MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understanding now from the Minister's have no reason to doubt that the comment is that the capacity within the Minister is speaking to me in good faith department to continue to fully bring a propos to what Mr. R.C. McLeod said. these programs forward and deliver I happen to know the person who is in them successfully is going, in fact, still the position, and I know that she works be able to do, that they're still going to more than halftime to deliver the be able to do that. I guess I'm just programs here, in Yellowknife, and on wondering at this point what the behalf of the department around the presenter of the motion may have Northwest Territories. I feel that, while it further comments in that regard now, is very valuable to have an additional having heard from the Minister. That'll position in the South Slave, that it is also be my comments for now. Thanks, valuable to keep the regional and the Mr. Chair. headquarters at strength in this role in CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank order to ensure that everybody is you, Mr. Vanthuyne. To the motion. wellinformed, is welleducated, about the Minister McLeod. environment that we live in. Thank you, Mr. Chair. HON. ROBERT MCLEOD: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I think the Minister had CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank commented before that during the you, Ms. Green. business plans that there was some Carried discussion of this, and I think there were some questions asked of him at the Since we returned to page 87, we need time. The department obviously feels to once again agree: Environment and fairly comfortable that they would have Natural Resources, corporate Page 48 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 management, operations expenditure CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank summary activity total, $14,054,000. you, Mr. O'Reilly. Mr. Testart. Agreed? MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. have some questions about this government's climate change efforts. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): We First, is there a climate change will now continue back on page 91, the adaptation and mitigation strategy? I environment sections. We will, as we've know there's the greenhouse gas and been doing, continue discussing the emissions, but do we have a strategy detail first. We will look at page 92. that includes looking at the future costs Comments or questions about the detail of climate change, and does it plan for on page 92. Committee has no those costs? Thank you, Mr. Chair. questions on page 92? Mr. Thompson. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, you, Mr. Testart. Ms. Kelly. Mr. Chair. On page 92 there was a biomass energy tariff. There was DR. KELLY: Mr. Chair, there's two $150,000 taken out. Could the Minister concurrent processes going on right please explain why this was reduced if now. One of them is the panCanadian we're talking about biomass as an framework for climate change, and the alternative way of doing energy? Thank NWT is participating in that. But the you, Mr. Chair. Greenhouse Gas Strategy is being replaced by the climate change strategic CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank framework, which will be going out you, Mr. Thompson. Ms. Kelly. shortly for engagement, and it will DR. KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This include a wide variety of topics related money was remaining after the transfer to climate change, including some of of renewable energy funds to Public those which were mentioned by the Works and Services. This was a project Member. Thank you, Mr. Chair. in Fort McPherson on biomass, and it CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank was determined that it would stay with you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. Testart. ENR until the project was complete. The project was complete, so the money has MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I sunsetted. Thank you, Mr. Chair. note that the adaptation plan under “Contributions” has seen a small CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank increase. What exactly do we use that you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. Thompson. funding for? I note that it's for support MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. planning actions by NWT communities, regional governments, and CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): organizations. It just seems like that's a Mr. O'Reilly. very small pot of money considering the MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. significant need for climate change Mr. Thompson asked the question I was adaptation. My mind turns to our coastal going to, so thank you. communities, particularly Tuktoyaktuk which has seen a great deal of coastal erosion. I know the community there is June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 49 struggling with properly understanding funding? Do we have an ask to give the the problem and what's needed to solve federal government to see some of this the problem, and this seems like a very money flow north? Thank you, small pot of money considering many of Mr. Chair. those harbours and communities are at risk as coastal erosion continues, not to CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank mention permafrost degradation in you, Mr. Testart. Ms. Kelly. communities that are built atop DR. KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. permafrost. Is that funding adequate at There are currently discussions going this time? Thank you, Mr. Chair. on between ENR and the federal CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank government related to the funding that is you, Mr. Testart. Ms. Kelly. on page 109, additional funds from the federal government. Thank you, DR. KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Mr. Chair. funds that you're referring to here, Member, are for communities to take CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank action to mitigate or adapt to climate you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. Testart. change, but there's also other funds that MR. TESTART: Nothing further, come into the department through Mr. Chair. agreements with the federal government that are used towards that type of work, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Next as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair. on my list, I have Mr. Beaulieu. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. BEAULIEU: Thank you, you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. Testart. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on the waste reduction line, there is no more MR. TESTART: Where would I find money left in there. Could I get an those funds? Thank you, Mr. Chair. explanation as to where it was picked CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank up? Mr. Chairman, I'm asking on the you, Mr. Testart. Ms. Kelly. general page. I guess the plan is to go back to the general page, ask more DR. KELLY: Mr. Chair, those are questions? Okay. I will then defer my information under Fund 3. Thank you, questions until we get back to the Mr. Chair. general page in this section. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. Testart. you, Mr. Beaulieu. Yes, we're going to discuss the details in each division and MR. TESTART: I thank the department then back to the general page, where for their response, Mr. Chair. I'm we can discuss it and call it. pleased that we are working on this with Mr. Thompson. our federal partners, as well, and I know that the federal government has made MR. THOMPSON: I guess I'm going to this a very large commitment. Is there a have to come back to this biomass as current set of proposals put together by I'm really confused. It was done in Fort the department to leverage our own McMurray. Is that correct? Thank you, resources with incoming federal Mr. Chair. Page 50 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank stuff. However, the discussion on you, Mr. Thompson. Ms. Kelly. expanding continues, that once they have this current initiative worked out, DR. KELLY: Fort McPherson. The they will expand. Thank you, Mr. Chair. project was set in Fort McPherson. Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Blake. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. Thompson. MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I know the biggest challenges the MR. THOMPSON: Sorry. I heard Fort community faces is actually having McMurray, and I was trying to figure it somebody on fulltime, because in order out, so I had to ask the question again, to have them even on a parttime basis, just to clarify. Thank you, very much. whether it's working the afternoons or CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank whatnot, I know the community is having you, Mr. Thompson. Further questions those challenges. Would the department on page 92? Mr. Blake. be open to other communities, like, for example, Tsiigehtchic, if they were MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. planning to put a biomass system on the Mr. Chair, as the department knows, school and gymnasium, would the Fort McPherson has done a lot in department be open to that? Thank you, biomass over the last couple of years, Mr. Chair. and there were talks last year of possibly tying in the school or getting CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank another unit for the school and the you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Campbell. community. I'm just wondering if there's MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. any further talks on that. I know Public At this point, with the energy initiative, Works has been leaning towards more alternative energy initiatives, they've biomass projects through the been transferred to Public Works, so the community, so I would just like to get a discussion will have to be with Public little update. Thank you. Works. However, Environment and CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Natural Resources certainly will be you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Campbell. available for the technical support to promote biomass. We're particularly MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. interested in the technical aspect with My understanding with our division harvesting of the fibre for the biomass talking with Public Works is that there initiatives in the communities. Thank continues to be discussion with Fort you, Mr. Chair. McPherson on expanding that initiative in Fort McPherson. The initial setup of CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank the current facility with the biomass you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Blake. boiler and the plan for harvesting the MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I fuel wood around there, in particular the know it's a great initiative. I also notice willows et cetera, and a small mill that's under the heading it mentions homes, in place now are good initiatives. My as well, Mr. Chair, and I'd like to ask the understanding is they're still having department: How is that part of it moving some challenges implementing that June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 51 forward? Is it with Ecology North, or HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: Thank who's actually heading up that section of you, Mr. Chair. Like the deputy minister it? Thank you. said, this initiative has been moved over to Public Works and Services, so I CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank remind Members that questions on that you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Campbell. initiative would be geared towards them. MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. But the other thing is that on the fuel That aspect of the homes, the savings, I think it was predicted a 30 per woodburning initiatives, that transferred cent savings on most biomass over the Public Works with the transfer applications. Thank you, Mr. Chair. of the alternative energy programs. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Thank you, Mr. Chair. you, Minister Schumann. Anything CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank further, Mr. McNeely? you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Blake. MR. MCNEELY: None, Mr. Chair. MR. BLAKE: That's about it, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Thanks. you. Seeing no one else on my list for CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank page 92, we can move on to 93, page you, Mr. Blake. Further comments or 93. Comments or questions on page questions on page 92. I see none. Oh, 93? Environment, active positions. I see Mr. McNeely. none. We can turn back to page 91, Environment, operations expenditure MR. MCNEELY: Yes, I'm back, summary. Mr. O'Reilly. Mr. Chair. I just want to add to the biomass. Currently underneath MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. construction right now, there's facilities First, I want to start off by reassuring the and piles being done in two of the Minister that in no way was I ever communities, one in Fort Good Hope to questioning his integrity earlier in the support the biomass structure there for House and in the Committee of the the school and the school in Tulita, as Whole. The fact that we may agree to well, and there's a number of buildings disagree or question things is no basis and a storage facility, a yard storing for questioning somebody's integrity. In pellets to supply the need. Now, if the any event, I firmly support the work of principle on savings is going to see this this department, but I did want to ask a government realize benefits such as we question about the waste reduction line are currently seeing on the solar panel on page 91. Last year, we had $100,000 project in Colville Lake, I think we in the budget, and this year there's should strongly consider continuous none. I think it may be because there support for the biomass. If it is working, was some extra funding providing there are we are going to realize benefits and to allow for some program development a reduction in fuel consumption? around electronics recycling, but a lot of that work is funded through the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Environment Fund, which is supposed you, Mr. McNeely. Would the Minister to be sort of a separate, selfsustaining like to respond? Minister Schumann. fund. I just want to confirm whether that's what's happened here and that Page 52 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 any further ongoing work with regard to HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: Yes, that's adding more materials to the recycling correct, Mr. Chair. basket, shall I say, would get funded from within the fund, the Environment CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Fund, itself. Thanks, Mr. Chair. you, Minister Schumann. Mr. O'Reilly. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair, and, you, Mr. O'Reilly. Ms. Kelly. as I recall, the consultations on this climate change strategic framework are DR. KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This going to start very shortly so that they $100,000 is a reduction, and the reason could feed into whatever positions that that that reduction can occur is because the government might bring forward in the program development money can terms of the national work that's being come from the environment fund. The done on climate change. Thanks, Environment Fund right now has a Mr. Chair. balance of $2.1 million, so there's room in that fund for this work to be done CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank through the Environment Fund. Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Schumann. you, Mr. Chair. HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: Yes, thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Chair. We're going to be rolling you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. O'Reilly. this out as early as this month on the engagement strategy. Thank you, MR. O'REILLY: Yes. Thanks for that. Mr. Chair. There's another page in here for the Environment Fund, so we'll have CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank another chance to look at that, but I you, Minister Schumann. Mr. O'Reilly. appreciate the answer. You know, we MR. O'REILLY: I look forward to that don't want to develop a fund and keep very much. Thanks. running a big surplus in it. That's not the purpose of it, so I'm fine with this. I CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank know, earlier today, the Minister made a you, Mr. O'Reilly. Mr. Testart. statement about the Climate Change MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I Strategic Framework, and I think I heard note under this activity we've got the that we had a climate change strategy at science agenda indicated. I'm one point. We also had a Greenhouse wondering what the department's efforts Gas Strategy 2011-2015, and that's are in regards to attracting more winding down, and that there's now scientific research investment in the going to be an effort to bring together all Northwest Territories. We have of these plans into, or strategies into, untapped potential to attract more the climate change strategic framework. research opportunities here and if the I just want to confirm that, Mr. Chair. department's role in leading the science Thanks. agenda is looking at ways to open the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Northwest Territories up to more you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Schumann. research opportunities and investment. Thank you, Mr. Chair. June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 53

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank through ENR and other departments, you, Mr. Testart. Ms. Kelly. and I'm unaware of challenges with bringing some of that funding to the DR. KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. North. We've been very successful There are efforts going on right now to doing that over the past few years and, I revitalize the existing science agenda. think, in the past, as well. So, thank you, Work is being done among the Mr. Chair. departments to revitalize that document, and the thinking is that the next step CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank would be to define a science strategy you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. Testart. that's more specific, that can be used to even further attract people to the North, MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I researchers to do work with us on some think the only… Well, I'm eager to see of our science needs. Currently, that the strategy roll out and I hope that work is being done within the committee will be, and I'm sure that department and through our science committee will be consulted. I hope also advisor at ENR. Thank you, Mr. Chair. we do some public engagement of this and get it out to the scientific community CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank and not just here, in the Northwest you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. Testart. Territories, but in people doing northern research across Canada and potentially MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair, in international organizations, as well. I and thank the department for that. It's would encourage the department to encouraging to see that we're taking this actually look at those partners and not seriously. We have a partner in Ottawa just keep it inhouse and keep it in this who's very keen on innovation and building, as well, because those are the scientific growth, and we have a federal people we want to bring here and that's agency here, in the form of CanNor, the kind of work we need to inspire and that's keen to invest in those really see those opportunities role out opportunities. Also, there's university and become a leader of northern partners across the country that could science here, in the Northwest be making more use, and I know there Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chair. are some legislative barriers to bringing more university dollars here, to the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank North. Will part of this work on a science you, Mr. Testart. Ms. Kelly. strategy address legislative barriers and work on eliminating them so we can DR. KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The bring more university dollars here, in the department agrees with the Member North, and more funding opportunities, and has been doing such work. One granting opportunities? Thank you, example is in the water strategy action Mr. Chair. plan, the new one, there will be a process with communities to identify CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank research priorities with those groups you, Mr. Testart. Ms. Kelly. and identify particular partners and have input from researchers into those DR. KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. research priorities. So thank you, Mr. There are many partnerships that have Chair. been developed with universities Page 54 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank what you were looking at for your main, you, Ms. Kelly. Nothing further from Mr. but you had to revise one, so could you Testart. Mr. Thompson. please explain the difference so I could understand a little bit clearer? Thank MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. you. Chair. I notice in climate change is a $150,000 reduction. If this is a priority of CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank this government, why is this reduction you, Mr. Thompson. Ms. Craig. occurring? Thank you, Mr. Chair. MS. CRAIG: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank during 2015-16 the department was you, Mr. Thompson. Ms. Kelly. successful in receiving $200,000 in devolution money to complete a project DR. KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's and do some research regarding the my understanding that that is the sunset sites that were transferred as part of of the biomass funding and that's where devolution, but that was one-time that that sunsetted money that we funding that we received during 2015- referred to earlier went. Thank you, Mr. 16. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Ms. Craig. Mr. Thompson. you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. Thompson. MR. THOMPSON: I thank Ms. Craig for MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. the answer; that makes more sense Chair, and I thank Ms. Kelly for the now. I guess I should actually say where answer. In contaminated sites and I get lines are. When I look at the remediation, it's a reduction of environmental protection there's a $218,000. Are the sites all cleaned up $195,000 reduction. This is… I'm going or… I'm just trying to understand the with the revised estimates, so can you rationale for this reduction. Thank you, explain what the rationale of what this Mr. Chair. reduction is? Considering if I look at the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank actuals for 2014-15, it was $2.26 million. you, Mr. Thompson. Ms. Craig. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MS. CRAIG: Thank you, Mr. Chair. you, Mr. Thompson. Ms. Craig. When you compare main estimates from MS. CRAIG: Thank you, Mr. Chair. That 2015-16 to 2016-17, it's a reduction of is the reduction of one of our positions: $25,000, and that was a small reduction the environmental protection officer in in our O and M funding there. No, not all the North Slave. Thank you, Mr. Chair. the contaminated sites are cleaned. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Ms. Craig. Mr. Thompson. you, Ms. Craig. Mr. Thompson. MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Could the Minister for the Chair. Okay, I guess my math is all department please explain why they lacking here because I got revised would reduce this position if estimates of $537,000 and the main environment is one of our priorities and, estimates at $319,000. I understand June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 55 you know, it's important for the notice that there's a $343,000 reduction Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. from the revised main estimates. Is Chair. there going to be less usage of contract services or what was the contract CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank services used for? Thank you, Mr. you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Campbell. Chair. MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank The environmental protection officer in you, Mr. Thompson. Ms. Craig. the North Slave was or is a vacant position, and during the reduction MS. CRAIG: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, exercises, we targeted that position. the division has looked at their contract There's no incumbent in there and the services and have made adjustments to department has other officers that have their internal budgets to reduce them. similar training to our environmental They will be performing those tasks protection officers and we feel that those more from within house with existing officers can cover off this role in the staff rather than contracting. Thank you, North Slave. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Thompson. you, Ms. Craig. Mr. Thompson. MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. MR. THOMPSON: I'm good, thank you. Chair, and I thank Mr. Campbell for his answer. Because I guess I was a little CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): confused because when we looked at Further to page 91? Mr. O'Reilly. the reductions on the activities on page MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. My 93 for staff there's no reductions at all, colleague's questions about so it is a vacancy. I thank him for that contaminated sites made me just answer. Regarding grants and wonder: is this sort of like a program contributions, I noticed a reduction of where ENR is responsible for cleaning $150,000. Can you explain the rationale up or remediating all contaminated sites for this reduction? Thank you, Mr. Chair. that are GNWT responsibility or are CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank those broken up by the department that you, Mr. Thompson. Ms. Craig. may own the land or caused the contamination in the first place? Or MS. CRAIG: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The what's that money actually used for? I $150,000 reduction is the biomass understand that ENR does have some funding that we've been speaking of in expertise in terms of assessing sites Grants and Contributions. Thank you, and developing policy and so on, but Mr. Chair. how is the remediation cost actually split up among various departments? CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Thanks, Mr. Chair. you, Ms. Craig. Mr. Thompson. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. All these you, Mr. O'Reilly. Ms. Kelly. things for that one number, so it's quite interesting. Thanks. Contract services: I Page 56 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

DR. KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just money that's in the budget here is for under fire damage compensation I see some positions who are looking at the there's a $100,000 there. How would planning and oversight from the that be… Like, say somebody's place contaminated sites and developing burned down by a forest fire, how much policies and procedures, and then flow would each individual receive under this some of the funding towards those program and how is it calculated as to contaminated sites there's the how much they will receive? Thank you. Environmental Liabilities Fund as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Campbell. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. O'Reilly. MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Under that program, the maximum a MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair, and harvester can receive is $35,000 and it's I thank the department for their broken down into a number of areas, response. That Environmental Liabilities one being the replacement of potential Fund… I'm sorry; which department is loss of their cabins. Another one for that with? Thanks, Mr. Chair. relocation costs to harvesting in new areas. The second one is for things like CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank opening up trails and access, I guess, to you, Mr. O'Reilly. Ms. Kelly. harvesting areas. Thank you, Mr. Chair. DR. KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank with Finance. you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Blake. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. You you, Ms. Kelly. Mr. O'Reilly. know, $100,000, let's say five, six MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair, and people lost their cabins, you know, it's I'll save up some questions then for the going to be underfunded this pot here. A Finance Minister then. These guys are good example is all the cabins that were off the hook for now. Thanks. burned down around Yellowknife, for example, the last couple of years and, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you know, around Providence. You you, Mr. O'Reilly. Seeing no other know, out through this area here. You questions, I will call this page again. know, is that $100,000 adequate for this Environment, operations expenditure program? Thank you. summary, activity total $4,079,000. Agreed? CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Campbell. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Yes, the $100,000 in some years is not Moving on to forest management an adequate amount. As you notice on division. Once again, we will wait to the page in the 14-15 actuals, there it's discuss page 95 and we will start on the much higher than the $100,000. In those detail on page 96: forest management, instances, if the department cannot find grants, contributions and transfers. Any the funding from within then we would comments or questions? Mr. Blake. June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 57 come back for an additional supp. course, leverage partnerships with the Thank you, Mr. Chair. community governments, with MACA there’s a collaborative effort to CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank implement the Community Wildfire you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Blake. Protection Plan. This amount we've MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. You been using in the past to provide know, I'm surprised to see that there's somewhat funding in particular to some no money this year in the community of the most vulnerable communities and protection research. You know, that sort the smaller communities to do wildfire of money is, you know, for firebreaks mitigation work. Thank you, Mr. Chair. and whatnot, anything that'll... Back CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank burning, that's something I'd like to see you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. McNeely. as a practice by some of the communities. You know, why is there no MR. MCNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. money in there for this? Which program is designated for firebreaks around communities, small CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank communities? you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Campbell. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. you, Mr. McNeely. Mr. Campbell. My understanding with that money, it's been rolled into the following two MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. projects: fire science and fire research The dollars identified there is the projects. Thank you, Mr. Chair. program that is designated for the community protection efforts such as fire CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank or fuel breaks. We also have our staff in you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Blake. the regions and as well as headquarters MR. BLAKE: Well, that sounds good. that provide technical expertise to the Thanks. communities and MACA, et cetera, for implementing this stuff. Thank you, Mr. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Chair. you, Mr. Blake. Next, I have Mr. McNeely. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. McNeely. MR. MCNEELY: On the same page, page 96, Mr. Chair, just clarification on MR. MCNEELY: I'll ask again, which the $75,000 designated for wildfire risk program is designated for firebreaks? and management plans. Is the definition CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Mr. of this program for firebreaks around Campbell. communities? Thank you, Mr. Chair. MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank If you want to go to program level, sorry, you, Mr. McNeely. Mr. Campbell. I misunderstood the question, in forest MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. management division it will be the fire The $75,000 is for communities to suppression program. Thank you, Mr. access to do mitigation work for wildfire. Chair. This is in our fund that we use to, of Page 58 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank discuss that when we turn back to page you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. McNeely, are 95. you good? CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Would MR. MCNEELY: Yes. that be acceptable Mr. Thompson. Anything further on page 96? Nothing CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): All further? No? Mr. Nadli. right. Comments and questions for page 96. Mr. Thompson again. MR. NADLI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to get a status report. I know we're MR. THOMPSON: Sorry. Just to clarify. on the cusp of enhancing the biomass It's in another section for firebreaks industry by establishing an industry around the community? Thank you, Mr. activity in the South Slave area. I just Chair. wanted to see if the Minister could CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank provide us an update in terms of the you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Campbell. progress towards establishing a wood pellet plant, in terms of his role in MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. assisting communities to advance that Yes, we have a number of programs in proposed business initiative and how forest management division similar to communities have been involved this other activities. For example, we have far. Mahsi. the suppression program, the pre- suppression. Pre-suppression is in CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank preparation of fire events, so yes, that's you, Mr. Nadli. Mr. Schumann. Or sorry, the program. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Campbell. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Thompson. The forest industry initiative is at a point right now where we do have the forest MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. management agreements in place with Chair. Is this wildfire risk management those communities. There's a number of plan that what we're talking about here, steps there as well. At this point the or is there another section within this community of Fort Providence, that department? Thank you. business entity has a number of things CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank in place. They've done a lot of the forest you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Campbell. planning work to date. They've secured their land use permit. The proponents MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, thank you, Mr. themselves have secured the land Chair. Under page 95 under the tenure for the site for the pellet plant and programs, under forest management ENR is working with the community in division there, yes, it would fall under attempting to assist the community and the program management pre- the proponent to reaching the suppression, that program, the establishment of a fibre agreement. Community Wildland Fire Protection Once the fibre agreement is in place Plans. then the other plans kick in, such as the harvesting, et cetera. We are planning CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank on going into that community within the you, Mr. Campbell. Maybe we can next two weeks to follow up at their June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 59 request to meet with us. Again, the Management Agreement so have not intent there is to continue to try to been impacted by forest fires. Thank advance this file so that we end up in you, Mr. Chair. agreement between the community entity and the pellet mill operator there CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank to come to that agreement with the fibre you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Nadli. agreement. That's where it's currently MR. NADLI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just at. Again, we're hoping that in the next maybe my final point or question is short while there that these fibre what's next in terms of the department agreements with not just Fort working along with the communities and Providence, but with Fort Resolution the proponent to ensure that, you know, here can be resolved. Thank you, Mr. there's a timeliness and at the same Chair. time successful stage in terms of CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank ensuring the reality of the wood pellet you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. McNeely. Or plant being in operation? Mahsi. sorry, Mr. Nadli. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. NADLI: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. you, Mr. Nadli. Mr. Campbell. Chair. Yes, thank you. I'd like to thank MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. the deputy for providing an update. I The key to ensure this initiative know some communities have done becomes a reality is the completion of some inventory analysis in terms of the the fibre agreements with the potential for forest products within their community entities and the proponent territory, and whether the forest fires for the pellet mill. Thank you, Mr. Chair. from the past two years have negated or significantly impacted their inventory in CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank terms of, you know, working with the you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Nadli. Nothing proponent and the community and further. Seeing no more comments or whether that's become a factor or not. questions, we can move on to page 97. Thank you. Forest management, active positions. Questions? Seeing none. Back to page CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank 95 where we will call this total. Actually, you, Mr. Nadli. Mr. Campbell. we'll discuss this page first. Page 95, MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. forest management, operations Over the last few seasons, we've had expenditure summary. Comments or quite severe fire seasons and it's burned questions? Mr. Beaulieu. a lot of the landscape. There has been MR. BEAULIEU: Thank you, Mr. impact to some of our inventoried areas. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just wanted to We have approximately one-sixth of our dig a little deeper into the total forested landscape in the reconfiguration of the fire crews and the Northwest Territories inventoried, so loss of positions in the communities. I yes, some of the fires impacted those notice that there's still the same amount inventories. For these two particular of firefighters and I knew that; the initiatives with the community of Fort Minister had advised me of that. I'm Resolution and Fort Providence, those wondering what process was used to areas identified with the Forest Page 60 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 determine that some communities would eliminating positions, whether they be lose positions. casuals or not, at some point there are two less jobs in communities where CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank there are two crews and there's one less you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Campbell. job in a community where there is one MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. crew. We are going through an exercise In 2012, the Department of Environment here at this point where we are talking and Natural Resources undertook a about some half-time positions in program review, and through that Yellowknife, as an example. Some part- process is where we had the time positions in various communities recommendation to go down this road of across the NWT. We've been talking lots creating crews that were five-man crews about the employment rates in small to four-man crews through that program communities. Above all, there's one review process. In anticipation of that thing we don't want to see in small and going forward with other communities is lose positions. What jurisdictions in the country going to four- happens is if the government man crews as well, we managed our determines that a four-man crew are crew contingent with the expectation more efficient, then shouldn't it be that was coming down the pipe. For an incumbent upon the department to make example, there was some of the sure that the leftover firefighter is placed communities where our five-man crews in the community in a PY, or else there's where there was permanent seasonal an actual loss of a person year in that positions, if there was individuals that community, which I'm opposed to. I think either resigned or the position became all Members of the Assembly from small vacant we did not permanently staff communities are opposed to. We stand those positions; we staffed them with up in the House and we talk about the casuals. The discussion with the lack of employment in small communities in the regions, they were communities, the low employment rates, aware that we were going down this the communities are having difficulties road. We also undertook an exercise surviving without a lot of government where we reviewed with our contract subsidies. The government is prepared, partners the personnel contracts with at this point more prepared to offer those Aboriginal governments and income support, social housing, and through that exercise as well, they were other subsidies for an individual for a informed that we would be going from person to stay at home and what we five-man to four-man crews to be more need is we need people to have jobs. effective, more efficient, and to allow us With this type of move then, this again to go from 28 to 35 crews. Thank department has eliminated PYs. It you, Mr. Chair. doesn't matter that they only fill casuals in the last couple of years; that don't CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank matter to me. The bottom line is: we lost you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Beaulieu. positions. If they want to add crews in MR. BEAULIEU: Thank you, Mr. some communities, fine, I have no issue Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that's good with that. I certainly don't have an issue there's more crews, more efficient with them bringing back an old crew that crews. However, the process of used to exist in Tsiigehtchic that was June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 61 taken away at some point and brought the positions were taken out of back, but what I'm opposed to and will communities that had low employment not support, is the positions being taken rates and put in the larger centres that out of small communities. I will not have more crews. Larger centres that support a budget that removes PYs from have more than four crews that could Fort Resolution, Lutselk'e, or Detah, or within themselves create… If they had Ndilo. Thank you. 20 firefighters, for example, they could easily go from four crews to five crews CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank without any impact. Or if there's three you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Campbell. crews and there's more people needed MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. they'd have to come from some Absolutely there are impacts to some community. All I know is that the impact communities and there's benefits to is felt by communities and that's what others. Overall, we have more crews. the problem is. Is that, like, are we going We still have programs that, for an to go through a process of reducing PYs example, if a fire is threatening areas, in any particular community? If we want whether it's the South Slave or the to look at the 97 seasonal positions then Dehcho or whatever, we have programs I'll ask the Minister: can you provide us where we can, to increase our with where all the shifts occurred? personnel we can hire extra personnel. Where did the PY shift to? Did the PY We do know that over the years in many shift to Hay River? Or did the PY shift to of our communities we've trained up a another community? What happened? lot of firefighters. There's other How did this come about where the programs where in the event of a fire crews got smaller? Even if we were to that we would ramp up and hire more be informed of the fact that we're personnel. The other piece, I guess, you moving to four-men crew, that's okay. know, going forward with the community But I need to know how we went in the South Slave there in particular through the process here in the House where we just recently talked about the dealing with the Minister of Finance on forest industry initiative, at some point, this budget and not being advised that you know, when the initiative is these PYs are being moved out of the underway we would probably be forced position because they're only casuals to look at an increase in that community anyway. Even casuals have families and to protect that fibre supply, so. At this we need to address that issue. Thank point, I certainly recognize the impact you. but again, the overall, collectively as a CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank whole for the Territories, we are better you, Mr. Beaulieu. Your time is up. If off with this arrangement. Thank you, you'd like to get back in the queue you Mr. Chair. can, but I'll let Mr. Campbell answer. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Beaulieu. Regarding where the positions ended up MR. BEAULIEU: Yes, thank you, Mr. and where the communities have the Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I don't know crews and that, we certainly can provide where the positions went to so I don't that list. As far as how we went from five know if we're better off. I don't know if to four, again, I mentioned the program Page 62 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 review. In particular, our rotary wing going to have to explain how they're aircraft for initial attack for these crews, more efficient in fighting fires with a four- the configuration is where we can now man crew compared to a five-man crew. be more efficient by doing initial attack If you have five people you're going to… on fires, where in the past we would use three trips with the water wing. With this SOME HON. MEMBER: Twenty per arrangement, again we're down to two cent more work. trips. It's the makeup of our resources MR. THOMPSON: Yes, there's 20 per that we have and our crews that allows cent more work. I'm just trying to us to be consistent with other understand the efficiency and how... I jurisdictions across Canada to be more understand the efficiencies with the effective and more efficient. Thank you, budget and saving money for the Mr. Chair. equipment and, you know, operations. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank I've heard the deputy minister say that, you, Mr. Campbell. Next on the list I you know, there's two flights versus have Mr. Testart. three flights, and I understand that. That's a cost saving; that makes sense, MR. TESTART: Sorry, Mr. Chair. but when we're talking about efficiencies Nothing from me. with a four-man crew versus a five-man crew, can a five-man crew not do a CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank better job than a four-man crew or is you, Mr. Testart. Mr. Thompson. there some… I'll just leave it at that and MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. I'll ask the next question after. Thank Chair. I guess I'm trying to better you, Mr. Chair. understand the efficiencies here. We've CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank gone to a four-man crew to a five-man... you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Campbell. From a five-man crew to a four-man crew. Is the efficiencies in fighting the MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. fire or is the efficiencies in saving money With our current arrangement, again, in for the department? In other words, the particular with our water wing here, we helicopters, equipment, stuff like that. initially attack fires. Even over the years, Thank you, Mr. Chair. the majority of the time utilizing four people and there have been many CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank occasions where that fifth person is left you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Campbell. at home. I spent most of my career in MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. the fire program as a firefighter a lot of The efficiencies are actually in both times, and the old days we had the big fighting fire and, again, taking medium helicopters, we can take two advantage of our fiscal resources. five-man crews, and as we evolved to Thank you, Mr. Chair. the intermediate rotary wing, they've done it across the country, this is where CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank we see the efficiencies. The initial attack you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Thompson? process is to ensure that we gain control MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. of that fire within the first 24-hour period Chair. Probably the deputy minister is and normally that's done within the first few hours. Again, the majority of our June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 63 fires we end up utilizing four people. provide our resources as well to help to Again, we also, on the other side save do the mitigation efforts and fuel breaks an extra trip with the rotary. Thank you, in this instance. If we have a slow Mr. Chair. season, we also utilize our crews to work with the community therein CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank enhancing those fuel breaks. Thank you, Mr. Campbell, and just a note to you, Mr. Chair. the committee: sidebar conversations are making it sometimes difficult to hear, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank so if you want to keep those to a you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Thompson. minimum. Mr. Thompson. MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank Mr. Campbell for that Chair. I thank the deputy minister for answer. I hear there's a partnership. that answer. It clears up things and I'm Has the department looked at working not questioning his expertise, because with the communities to help them fund that I assume being a deputy minister so they can do it themselves with the and fighting fires that's why you're sitting technical support of the department? where you are. I thank you very much Thank you, Mr. Chair. for that and now I have a better understanding of what you're saying. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Back to the firebreaks in regards to this you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Campbell. here. Has the government looked at MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. working with these small communities, Ultimately I guess what we're trying to especially after seeing what has do is to work with the communities and happened in Fort McMurray, developing to see how we can leverage our funds firebreaks in the community and utilizing with their funds and also to look at other the staff if it's a slow, and I'm praying areas where we can find more funds. An we're a slow season, or working with the example will be a few years ago through communities to fund them so that they a federal program we were able to, can actually make a firebreak a little bit along with the communities, access larger, like a kilometre away from their funding where we had enough funding communities, to make it more safe. to build and enhance many of our few Thank you, Mr. Chair. breaks that are in place now. Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Chair you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Campbell. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Thompson? Yes, we have. We work with MACA; we MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. Again, I work with the communities on was having a hard time hearing, and I implementing their wildfire protection apologize to Mr. Campbell. We're able plans, and again, it's a joint effort. The to access funding for the federal communities, of course, are responsible government. I understand that and it for ensuring they're prepared for was very successful; however, right now emergency events like wildfire. We that funding, I'm assuming, is gone and provide a lot of technical advice. On the so is the department willing to look at question with our own resources, we Page 64 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016 within their coffers to see if there's is in order and non-debatable. All those funding available especially for the in favour. All those opposed. The motion smaller communities like the Trout is carried. I will now stand and report Lakes, the Jean Maries, the Nahanni progress. Thank you, Minister and your Buttes, the Lutselk'es, the Fort Resses, witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, you may these small communities that don’t have escort the witnesses from the Chamber. a lot of money and are, you know, a little bit strapped, and after I had seen what MR. SPEAKER: Masi. May I have the happened in Fort McMurray, that really report, Member for Hay River North? scares me. If it happens there, we're 9. Report of Committee of the Whole going to lose communities, and so is the department willing to look at or even, MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. and maybe it is shot for this budget, but Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee next year's budget, so that we can work has been considering Tabled Document with the communities, have money 50-18(2), Main Estimates, 2016-2017. I available to do firebreaks. Thank you, would like to report progress, with one Mr. Chair. motion being adopted. Mr. Speaker, I CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank move that the report of the Committee of you. Mr. Thompson. Mr. Campbell. the Whole be concurred with. Thank you. MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Absolutely we're willing to look at other MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Do we have a possible opportunities here to gain those seconder? Member for Deh Cho. Motion resources. Thank you, Mr. Chair. is in order. To the motion. Question’s been called. All those in favour? All CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank those opposed? you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Thompson. ---Carried MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. I thank the deputy minister and Masi. Item 23, third reading of bills. Mr. Minister for their answers and I'll be Clerk, orders of the day. working and I'll be probably doing some 10. Orders of the Day Member’s statements on it anyways, so I thank you very much and I appreciate CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Mercer): all your expertise because it is very Mr. Speaker, orders of the day for valuable to the government. So you Thursday, June 9, 2016, at 1:30 p.m.: can't retire for another five years. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 1. Prayer CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank 2. Ministers’ Statements you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Beaulieu. 3. Members’ Statements MR. BEAULIEU: Mr. Chairman, I move 4. Returns to Oral Questions to report progress. 5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. There is a motion on 6. Acknowledgements the floor to report progress. The motion June 8, 2016 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 65

7. Oral Questions MR. SPEAKER: Masi, Mr. Clerk. This House adjourns until Thursday, June 9th, 8. Written Questions 1:30 p.m. 9. Returns to Written Questions ---ADJOURNMENT 10.Replies to Commissioner’s Opening The House adjourned at 5:43 Address p.m. 11.Replies to Budget Address 12.Petitions 13.Reports of Standing and Special Committees 14.Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills 15.Tabling of Documents 16.Notices of Motion 17.Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills 18.Motions  Motion 15-18(2), Reappointment of Human Rights Commission Members  Motion 16-18(2), Appointment of the Equal Pay Commissioner  Motion 17-18(2), Extended Adjournment of the House to June 13, 2016 19.First Reading of Bills 20.Second Reading of Bills 21.Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters  Tabled Document 50-18(2), Main Estimates, 2016-2017 22.Report of Committee of the Whole 23.Third Reading of Bills 24.Orders of the Day Page 66 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD June 8, 2016

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