Minutes of the Crm Standing Group s1

MINUTES OF THE CRM STANDING GROUP Aviation House 31st July 2008

Present: Mrs. Nicole Svatek (NS) Chairman Mr. Rick Heybroek (RH) Capt. David Cockburn(CB)

HFG Members Carey Edwards (CE) Chairman Andy Ebdon (AE) Mike Stanway (MS) Jeremy Butler (JB) Apologies: Mr. Pieter Hemsley (PH) Capt. Laurie Benn (LB) Capt. Roger Benison (RB) Capt. Charlie Cantan (CC) Capt. Simon Turner (ST) Capt. Rick Newson (RN) Mr. John Dunne (JD)

Copy to: Mr. Sid Adcock Emeritus Member Mr. Johan Lindvall Corresponding Member Capt. Norman Komich Corresponding member

Agenda:

1. Review of last minutes, 8th May 2. Update on collaboration with RSSB 3. HF issues relating to VLJ and Conference 4. Request from RAeS for speakers for training conference 5. A.O.B

The CRMSG was delighted to welcome four members of the HFG (Carey Edwards, Andy Ebdon, Jeremy Butler and Mike Stanway) who remained after the morning meeting to attend the CRMSG in the afternoon.

1 Item 1. Review minutes of last meeting. The minutes were reviewed and approved. It was noted that whilst low attendance levels afflict all committees from time to time, the CRMSG does have a meaningful role to fulfil as our current agenda indicates. The draft mission statement was attached but not reviewed at this time. It was again agreed that the Group would actively seek a role in the development of any SMS protocols being produced by the CAA.

Action: RN to contact Anna Rusted/ Valery Graham with an invitation to attend a CRMSG at their earliest convenience.

Item 2. Update on collaboration with RSSB The CRMSG was briefed on the meeting that was held on the 20th June at Aviation House, comprising members of the RSSB and representatives of the CRMSG. Early discussion confirmed the many similarities in the training and guidance issues currently being experienced by rail and once so familiar in aviation. It was agreed to establish a working group and to move forward with the joint conference, now scheduled for 21 May 2009.

It was proposed that the structure of the WG would be to form a Rail HF group. This would be supported throughout its early stages by the CRMSG (under the auspices of the HFG), until such time as it was no longer necessary. The role of the CRMSG is to ‘guide and provide, not to decide’.

Further, “…Agreed to have a two-part WG, the core rail HF group and the HFG support hosted by the CRMSG. Initially these will be two views of same WG but it is anticipated that the Rail HF group remit will expand in the future” (from meeting minutes)( RH).

Conference topics were discussed, these included, Blame, No-Blame or Just Culture in Reporting Systems,, Threat and Error Management and, Creative Use of Simulators for Training, HF and single Pilot Issues. In order to keep the subjects interesting, thought provoking and unthreatening, speakers are to be sought from a variety of organisations, including the NHS and the RNLI. Next meeting 2 October 2009.

AE noted that there are many areas germane to both rail and aviation engineering, not least the technical nature of the work, the social dynamic within an engineering community and the blame culture. As further discussion proved how beneficial it would be to have a representative(s) of Mtce. & Eng. speak at the conference, it was decided to request AE to provide a speaker.

Actions: NS to request meeting room at Aviation House on behalf of CRMSG NS to request RN to provide paper on HF and single Pilot Issues AE to provide speaker on Mtce. & Eng. Blame Culture

2 Item 3: HF issues relating to VLJ and Conference The RAeS is to host a conference on Very Light Jets (VLJ) on 18 – 19th March 2009. The CRMSG has been approached to provide a minimum of two, ideally three speakers on the subject of Human Factors in VLJ operations. It became obvious from the ensuing discussion that this is an area where the sales and manufacturing of VLJs have been quicker than the regulators and legislators or indeed ourselves. To date there is no operating requirement in the UK other than a PPL, a type rating and an HPA (high performance aircraft course). A PPL is sufficient in the U.S. It appears that at present the CAA has no control over this, only IATA. EASA is ‘talking about it’. Considerable debate disclosed considerable concern amongst the Group regarding the operation of VLJs in already overcrowded airspace and the absence of requirement for additional testing standards, not only in the area of HF/CRM. It was suggested that this matter be raised with RN for further investigation as to speakers. It was also agreed that the CRMSG should provide a speaker to voice HF concerns at the conference. The HFG tasked the CRMSG to research and keep a briefing watch on this subject. Any input from Norman Komich, our U.S. Corresponding member would be most welcome.

Action: NS to contact RN reference speaker RN to contact Chris Finnigan at CAA regarding CAA position

Item 4: Request from RAeS for speakers for training conference The RAeS is to host a conference, tentatively scheduled for October 2009, bringing together CRM trainers from around the world who have highlighted an lack of CRM standardisation internationally and requested help in sourcing CRM training materials, guidance and ideas. In turn, the RAeS has requested the assistance of the HFG who has tasked the CRMSG with this endeavour. A previous conference held in Helsinki last February made it apparent that many CRM practitioners are encountering problems with both course content and development. The aim of this conference will be to ‘cross-fertilise’ and learn from various countries what they are doing and how they are doing it (in an attempt to achieve some level of standardisation). Based in Europe, with access to so much, it might seem extraordinary that anyone would have difficulty finding material. It is true, however, that ‘you don’t know what you don’t know’ and those who don’t know how or where to look, will never find. The CRMSG agreed to collaborate with the RAeS and proposed that Colin Budenberg might be ideal to speak on, “Taking it from the page into real time” and Paul Field could bring light on Doc 29.

Action: NS to contact Colin Budenberg NS to contact Paul Field

Item 5: Review of HFG Meeting held 31 July Aviation House “Agenda item 3. HF Comment on Major Civil Aviation Occurrences”

3 In view of the fact that most training material is dated and does not refer to more recent accidents, the HFG discussed the merit of ‘working up’ an accident from the HF perspective and making this available to industry as a learning tool. Jeremy Butler first launched the idea after having been involved in the Helios investigation, about which he has a considerable amount of information. Whilst it is appreciated that the AAIB and other accident investigation bodies publish their own findings, it is also true that they are hampered by legal considerations from drawing ‘lessons learnt’ from their conclusions. It was agreed that this material could be of great benefit within the HF community. The HFG proposes that we all review one accident from our respective HF perspective, e.g. each Standing Group will be provided with the material available on Helios and will extract all the CRM content pertinent to them: Mtce. & Eng. from their point of view, CRMSG from their point of view, CCSG from their point of view etc. The material will then be collated and prepared for distribution as a whole.

The CRMSG felt strongly that it is particularly important that the Groups do not write conclusions. It is sufficient to state what happened and then ask a few pertinent questions in order to draw people into a discussion. An example might be: Was CRM a factor in Helios? Where specifically? What would have changed the outcome? The CRMSG welcomed this as a radically significant initiative and looks forward to participating.

Action: Barry Neal to distribute accident findings to Standing Groups NS to brief CRMSG at next meeting

A.O.B. The CRMSG would like to welcome Mike Stanway, RAFAC Flight Safety department as our most recent volunteer. We look forward to introducing him at the next meeting.

It is with great regret that I announce the resignation of Laurie Benn from our Group. Laurie’s new employment has meant that he no longer has the latitude to schedule in our meetings and he can no longer attend. Laurie’s enthusiasm and particular expertise on all matters regarding single pilot and PPls will be sorely missed, especially as the subject is so relevant at this time. The CRMSG would like to express heartfelt thanks for the many years Laurie has given and wishes him every success in the future.

PLEASE NOTE: Next Meeting Thursday 30 October 1330 Aviation House

Nicole Svatek 15th August 2008

[email protected] 01273 738169