Alcantarea Vargem Alta Type Locality for Al

Alcantarea ‘Vargem Alta’ Type locality for Al. extensa

Delivered-To: [email protected] From: "Mark Paul" To: "derek butcher" , "Bruce" Cc: "Peter Tristram" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Aug 2009 06:38:30.0791 (UTC) Sounds fine to me UD I thought that was what we all working towards, I will upgrade our current Alcantarea database , reach concensus with the two comrades + we should name + revise everything that is in ,or about to be released to commercial production + give them cultivar names.I think the description can link it to similar or known species as an example, some will be cultivars of a known species,ie imperialis[but this is where it gets trickier,now we know there are 3 distinct population of it and two are represented in cultivation here,Elton had the Friburgo form in his collection but would not speculate on it,+ the ones in cultivation here originate from Skotak not habitat, Peter also has other plants from the Petropolis population also from Skotak].Anyhow we will start to get this together+ get your comments on the result. Regards Mark

Mark et al You can go on linking these collections to species until you are blue in the face with changes to definitions of species changing every five minutes. I still maintain the only way we will have some control is to give them Cultivar names based on where they were originally collected. Those that get to Oz without such data can go as aff. !! Thus we go with Alcantarea 'Vargem Alta' rather than extensa to at least differentiate it from all the other possibly incorrect extensa names. UD

From: "Mark Paul" To: "Bruce" Cc: "Peter Tristram" , "derek butcher" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Aug 2009 21:59:20.0715 (UTC)

Hi boys,I know Bruce likes lumping all the extensas together but it will not be helpful in the longrun just add to the confusion + now that we have extensa from Vargem Alta,the type locality, we will have something to compare against in a couple of years time, note that Elton has just recollected it also to update the description [as it is obviously hindering new descriptions].I still don’t know how they will be able to accommodate the 100 or so species that are coming!? as Rob has found based on the current descriptions they all start to look the same[or at least all like patriae,he even thinks edmundoi looks like patriae now, as long as the buds are yellow?!]. Attached are images from Vargem Alta,the plants are a lot bigger than most of what we currently grow as extensa but otherwise look much the same bar the purple leaf tips. As per our records before the last trip[ after condensing very similar plants x4,and including greenleaf extensa types x2 but excluding patriae,heloisiae x2,vinicolor x7,odorata x5, types] we still had 12 very different 'extensa' types , add to that around six more from the last trip including the one from Vargem Alta totals 18. I was originally going to include Rob but have changed my mind [+ chickened out]. Regards Mark

From: Bruce [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, 7 August 2009 6:28 PM To: Mark Paul Cc: Peter Tristram Subject: Fwd: Emailing: Al extensa1PT, june0902alcextensalr

Hi Mark

Here it comes you asked for it. Peter disregard if you wish you never were involved. cheers Bruce

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Robert Smythe" Date: 25 July 2009 3:24:58 PM To: "Bruce" , "rick cairns"

Subject: Emailing: Al extensa1PT, june0902alcextensalr Bruce, I have seen this banded form for sale in Brisbane as extensa and up the table-lands as nahoumii. Now that extensa is being cut apart I am watching out to see what it actually is. Turgida? Some similarities but not it. I'm not saying it is not extensa as description is based on very old herbarium samples going back to the 18 hundreds. Leme is slipping out bits of info indirectly and I now gather extensa has (from memory) eight branches plus terminal branch, many flowered, branches to 65cm long. The leaves may have lost their wax coating in the herbarium as they were described as smooth and glabrous. Out of all the photos that have come my way is one with PT on it so I presume it is Peters plant and is the best fit. Attached for your interest. Do you have photos of your plant in flower? I know I'm a pest but I would like to sort things out a bit. I have some new stuff on the Aust Webpage. Do you have the history of this plant.