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PAGE 1 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

CITY OF SHAWNEE CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 7:30 P.M.

Mayor Meyers called the meeting to order at 7:33 p.m. in the Shawnee City Hall Council Chambers. He welcomed the public and led everyone in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, followed by a moment of silence.

Mayor Meyers asked everyone as they recite the Pledge of Allegiance this evening to remember Gene Amos who passed away this week. He was a man who served his country and community in a manner that is beyond compare. During the moment of silence, he asked everyone to be thankful for all Gene did for this community, because he was a gentleman in all sense of the word and an exemplary public servant. His contributions to Shawnee and to their greater community of Johnson County are innumerable.

Mayor Meyers stated they are all thankful that he was part of Shawnee and their thoughts and prayers go out to Gene’s family because he will be very missed.

Councilmembers Present Staff Present Councilmember Scott City Manager Gonzales Councilmember Pflumm Assistant City Manager Charlesworth Councilmember Sawyer City Clerk Powell Councilmember Goode City Attorney Rainey Councilmember Kuhn Planning Director Chaffee Councilmember Straub Public Works Director Freyermuth Councilmember Sandifer Police Chief Morgan Councilmember Distler Fire Chief Hudson Parks and Recreation Director Holman Deputy Parks and Recreation Director Lecuru Parks and Facilities Manager DeGraeve Information Technologies Director Doherty Finance Director Kidney Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom Human Resources Manager Crawford Project Engineer Moeller-Krass Intern, Katie Scanlon Human Resources Specialist Dawald Shawnee Town Associate Hsu Parks and Recreation Admin Gresco Museum Director Clemenson

Members of the public who spoke: (Item 6) JAMES MASSON, 6500 Mize Road; (Item 10a) KEITH HAYS, 11707 W. 51st Terrace, RAY ERLICHMAN, 7510 Garnett Street, PHIL BUROWS, 13589 W. 58 th Place, JAMES MASSON, 6500 Mize Road, RODNEY HOUCK, 12807 W. 70th Terrace, CHARLES GOSLIN, 17428 W. 70th Street, DAVID MORRIS, 6125 Melrose Lane, CHARLIE VOGT, 13907 W. 72 nd Court, TIM ZARDA, 6770 Mize Road, SHANE CRAMER, 6802 Gladstone, LES PALMER, Prairie Village, MIKE EGAN, 21705 W. 58th Street, SHARON SWANSON, 25503 W. 69th Terrace; (Item 14) DAVID MORRIS, 6125 Melrose Lane.

CONSENT AGENDA

1. APPROVE MINUTES OF THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JULY 13, 2009. PAGE 2 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

2. REVIEW MINUTES OF THE FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MEETING OF JULY 7, 2009.

3. REVIEW MINUTES OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF JULY 6, 2009.

4. CONSIDER ACCEPTANCE OF DEDICATIONS OF LAND FOR PUBLIC PURPOSES CONTAINED IN FP-11-09-07, THE FINAL PLAT OF GARLAND HEIGHTS, THIRD PLAT, FOR ONE LOT IN THE 25900 BLOCK OF WEST 76TH STREET.

Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to approve the entire Consent Agenda. The motion carried 8-0.

MAYOR'S ITEMS

5. THE MAYOR MAY PRESENT ITEMS FOR CONSIDERATION.

There were no Mayor’s items.

PUBLIC ITEMS

6. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE GRANTING TO TW TELECOM OF KANSAS CITY, LLC, A CONTRACT FRANCHISE TO CONSTRUCT, OPERATE, AND MAINTAIN A TELECOMMUNICATIONS SYSTEM IN THE CITY.

Mayor Meyers stated that the applicant requests a contract franchise to construct, operate and maintain a Telecommunications System in the City. The franchise requires the grantee to pay a franchise fee of 5% on its gross receipts.

City Manager Gonzales stated City Attorney Rainey granted this item and he believes Brent Robinson from TW Telecom is in the audience this evening if Mayor Meyers has any questions.

City Attorney Rainey stated Mayor Meyers already summarized this item. He stated the City did receive the application and the application free from TW Telecom. He stated they had some negotiation over some minor aspects in regard to the right-of-way. He stated essentially the franchise the City has in the agenda packet this evening is based on a model that was developed by a number of city attorneys, including himself, and it is nearly identical to the one in Olathe and Overland Park.

City Attorney Rainey stated this is nearly identical to the one that Shawnee granted last year to Telcove. He stated cities today have very little authority over Federal and State law in regards to the franchises, except those aspects as they retain to right-of-way. He stated they have no authority or control over content or the manner of their facility or providing of services, but they can enforce those provisions and can write in the provisions that pertain to the use of public right- of-way.

City Attorney Rainey stated as indicated, they are not in the City at this time. He stated it has always been his understanding that they have been a service aimed particularly at business customers with a very limited use and non-residential, but they would have the authority under this franchise to offer all of the telecommunication services to anyone in the City, residential, commercial, or otherwise.

Councilmember Distler asked if this would be a conflict of interest for her to vote on, because she works for a competitor, but they are not in this territory, so she does not believe it would be.

City Attorney Rainey replied he does not believe so. PAGE 3 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to pass an ordinance granting to TW Telecom of Kansas City, LLC, a contract franchise to construct, operate, and maintain a telecommunications system in the City of Shawnee.

JAMES MASSON, 6500 Mize Road, stated he thinks SureWest got this deal, but they used to be called Everest. He asked if they received a deal several years ago to provide service to the entire City.

Mayor Meyers replied they have the authority to provide service to the entire City.

JAMES MASSON asked if there is no requirement to provide service to everyone equally.

City Attorney Rainey answered no.

JAMES MASSON stated he was going to ask why they never extended and do not come into his area to advertise. He asked if the City just grants all these licenses and they pick and choose and that’s it.

City Attorney Rainey stated he might note that this is telecommunications, or telephone only, but that may be pretty broad anymore. He stated it is not cable service, but the City’s authority is very limited and they have granted franchise to companies who have never done anything in the City.

Mayor Meyers recognized Mr. Robinson for attending this evening.

Therefore the motion read:

Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to pass an ordinance granting to TW Telecom of Kansas City, LLC a contract franchise to construct, operate, and maintain a telecommunications system in the City of Shawnee. The motion carried 8-0. Having passed, Ordinance 2939 was assigned.

7. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE TERMINATING THE REDEVELOPMENT DISTRICT IN THE CITY FOR THE WEST I-435 & JOHNSON DRIVE AREA.

Mayor Meyers stated that the Council passed an Ordinance establishing a Redevelopment District at the northwest corner of the Interchange of I-435 and Shawnee Mission Parkway. Johnson County, the Unified School District No. 512 (Shawnee Mission) and the Unified School District No. 232 (DeSoto) were notified of the Redevelopment District as required by law. At their meeting on July 6, 2009, the Board of the Unified School District No. 232 has determined the establishment of the redevelopment district will have an adverse effect on the school district. The City is now required by Kansas Statute to terminate the redevelopment district within 30 days.

Councilmember Sandifer, seconded by Councilmember Distler, moved to terminate the redevelopment district in the City for the West I-435 and Johnson Drive area.

Councilmember Pflumm asked if the City contacted the school district indicating their concerns.

Mayor Meyers answered yes. He stated he has a meeting with the Board President tomorrow to discuss further and has had discussions with the superintendents of schools, so there has been several contacts. PAGE 4 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Pflumm stated he would like to make himself available to express any of his concerns to the board members and administrative people involved.

Councilmember Scott stated this action is unprecedented and sets the tone for future interlocal agreements. She stated it is like saying that Shawnee is closed for business west of I-435. She stated three out of four cities signed off, the college signed off, the Shawnee Mission District and the County signed off. She stated she thinks this development would build the tax base that would enhance the DeSoto School District’s patrons, if nothing else; to lower their taxes and it would be a win/win to her, so she does not understand the logic.

Mayor Meyers stated he was very disappointed and thinks some of what took place is there has been transition within that school district with a new superintendent and some other high personnel. He thinks that caused some possible conflict in procedures. He stated it was not something that was a procedure fault of the City, because they followed the same procedure they always follow with anyone they need to in these situations.

Councilmember Scott stated she understands.

Mayor Meyers stated he feels like some of the result was because of things that were out of the City’s hands, which was a change in personnel at the highest level of the district.

Councilmember Scott stated she thought it was a win/win and it makes her sick that it falls through the cracks.

Councilmember Goode stated it says, The City is now required by State statute to terminate the redevelopment within 30 days. He asked how that group got so much power to come right in there and do that.

City Attorney Rainey replied that has always been part of the Kansas TIF statute, that either a school district or the County commissioners have a VETO power. He stated he would note that on industrial revenue bond issues, they are required to give notice to the school districts and County in those instances as well, they do not have a VETO power, but they are required to receive notice and have the right to hear and object and protect those. He stated to his knowledge, they have not had that happen on industrial revenue bonds, but the TIF district law is different.

City Attorney Rainey stated this does not mean that a different proposal for the same area can not come back in the future and this was a redevelopment district only and not a proposal for a specific project or specific plan as to the use of the property, except generally for commercial business, office, or variable or mixed use development. He stated it does not mean they will not have the opportunity if the same applicant or someone different comes back in again to revisit it.

Councilmember Goode asked if they could revisit it.

City Attorney Rainey answered yes. He stated they would have to go through the same process of another public hearing, another notice, another ordinance creating the district.

Councilmember Kuhn stated that while statutorily, the City is required to rescind this ordinance, they do have the opportunity, assuming the DeSoto School District comes to the belief, as she has, that this type of project is not only good, but imperative for their ward and they would have another chance to revisit this and hopefully see a more positive joining of forces between the City and the school district.

Therefore the motion read: PAGE 5 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Sandifer, seconded by Councilmember Distler, moved to pass an ordinance to terminate the redevelopment district in the City for the West I-435 and Johnson Drive area. The motion carried 8-0. Having passed, Ordinance 2940 was assigned.

8. CONSIDER RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE SALE OF GENERAL OBLIGATION INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT BONDS AND REFUNDING BONDS.

Mayor Meyers stated that the Governing Body, customarily by resolution, authorizes and fixes the time of, and details of, the sale of General Obligation Bonds. A Resolution authorizing the sale of General Obligation Internal Improvement Bonds, Series 2009A in the aggregate principal amount of $1,435,000 (the Series 2009A Bonds), is included.

Councilmember Scott, seconded by Councilmember Goode, moved to adopt a resolution providing for the sale of general obligation internal improvement refunding bonds, Series 2009A, in the aggregate principal amount of $1,435,000 (the Series 2009A Bonds).

Finance Director Kidney stated when he originally put the resolution together with the amount, he had put in a higher discount rate. He stated they ask bond holders to give the flexibilities when they buy bonds that they can have a higher cost that would drive the interest rates down on the bonds. He stated he put $1,435,000 and the Bond Council corrected him in that technically he could not have more than what the special assessments levied against the property was that they set two weeks ago which was $1,410,000, so they will need to change the amount of that bond.

Finance Director Kidney stated there is no difference at all, but could have the potential for a little higher interest rate on it, because it does not give the bond purchasers the flexibility on marketing their bonds. He apologized for that, but noted it does not change any status of the issue at all.

Therefore the motion read:

Councilmember Scott, seconded by Councilmember Goode, moved to adopt a resolution providing for the sale of general obligation internal improvement refunding bonds, Series 2009A, in the aggregate principal amount of $1,410,000 (the Series 2009A Bonds). The motion carried 8-0. Having been adopted, Resolution 1580 was assigned.

9. CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING AND APPROVE THE AMENDED 2009 BUDGET.

Mayor Meyers stated that the 2009 Budget has been amended for reappropriations from 2008, fund transfers and other required expenditures.

Councilmember Goode, seconded by Councilmember Scott, moved to conduct a public hearing to approve the amended 2009 budget.

Finance Director Kidney stated they published the Notice of Public Hearing two weeks ago in compliance with State statute. He stated the funds shown are the Special Highway Fund, Special Parks and Recreation Fund, Cemetery Fund, and Stormwater Fund. He stated during the process of the 2010 budget, they also revised the 2009 budget estimates. He stated most of these items were either cash carried forward for a project not being done in 2008, so the project was then budgeted in 2009, or in the case of Special Parks and Recreation he thinks there was a project on the lazy river and wanted to make sure that was included. He stated this hearing is simply to answer any public questions.

Councilmember Straub stated he has some recommendations on the budget and is not sure if now is the time to talk about additional cuts.

Mayor Meyers stated this is for the 2009 amended budget. PAGE 6 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to conclude the public hearing to approve the amended 2009 budget. The motion carried 8-0.

Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Goode, moved to approve the amended 2009 budget. The motion carried 8-0.

10. CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING TO ADOPT THE 2010 BUDGET.

Mayor Meyers stated that a notice was published for the 2010 Budget at $76,853,962. The total Ad Valorem Tax to be levied is $17,707,372 with an estimated tax rate of 24.693 mills.

Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Scott, moved to conduct a public hearing to adopt the 2010 budget at $76,853,962 with the total Ad Valorem Tax to be levied at $17,707,372, with an estimated tax rate of 24.693 mills.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she knows they are going into public hearing right now, which means they are looking forward to an anticipating a lot of information from those in the public. She stated she knows there are a lot of people here this evening who are both here to hear about the budget and speak to their concerns and their interests.

Councilmember Kuhn stated in order to give the Council an area of discussion and something specific for people to speak to; she would like to make a motion this evening. She stated before she makes that motion, she would like to make a few comments in regards to the budget process. She stated as they can all probably tell, they all have a number of things on their mind.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she will apologize in advance for the length of her statement, but unfortunately this year’s budget has been both very complex and very difficult. She stated it impacts everyone in Shawnee, including those who sit on the Council and for that reason she thinks that both, [you] and [we] deserve both thoughtful and prudent decision making.

Councilmember Kuhn stated everyone knows they are facing a very challenging situation, due to the nature of their community tax base and their current economic situations; they are now dealing with a situation in which the revenues in which the City receives are not enough to support the services the City has been providing. She stated this is not a one year problem, nor is it an $850,000 problem and what this is, is a multi-year, long term needs solution kind of problem.

Councilmember Kuhn stated the unfortunate reality is that void of any new revenue, they will not only need to cut that $850,000 from this year’s budget, but also need to cut an additional $1.5 million over the next two years. She stated these are not the kinds of cuts where they can say they can live without that this year, or, ‘let me tighten my belt and cut that’. She stated these are the kinds of cuts they are going to have to make, where they need to make the decision that says they are okay with no longer having ‘this’ or ‘that is not something I expect the City to provide any longer’.

Councilmember Kuhn stated these are the kinds of decisions that they, as a Council, will have to remember that their votes will affect not only the next 10 minutes of the ‘feel good’ decision, but the next 10 months of their City and the next 10 years when they live here and the permanent implications are long winded.

Councilmember Kuhn stated they have spent many many hours in their budget discussions and over the last few months there have been a number of meetings where they have been provided a lot of information. She stated never before have they been so lucky to have so many people visit them during those meetings and because of that, she knows there is a lot of information that has not been presented to everyone here. PAGE 7 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Kuhn stated because of that, she would now like to summarize what she feels area few key points to the decision making process she had for this process.

Councilmember Kuhn stated the staff presented the Council with a 2010 budget that is less than their budget in 2006. She stated it includes $1.3 million in personnel cost reductions and numerous other reductions of expenditures that will help them get their expenditures as close to revenues as possible. They have provided them information on the programs they have and asked the direction on what services and programs does the Council believe will have the least impact on the community if they reduced them or cut them.

Councilmember Kuhn stated unfortunately when times get difficult, it is very easy to think ‘what are those extras’ and they rise to the top – easy to cut. She stated she is talking about things such as parks, festivals, and the museum and those are the first things she sees on the lists. She stated she would argue that Shawnee has a very special interest and in their town those parks, those festivals, and those museums are not extras and are in fact the heart and soul of this community.

Councilmember Kuhn stated it has been said that they should be ‘a lot more like Lenexa’, that they should be able to cut the dollars and not cut services. She stated she wishes that were true and would give anything to be able to do it, but they need to have it clearly stated that the City of Lenexa, Shawnee’s neighbor with less people than Shawnee, is currently reviewing a 2010 budget that is $106 million. She stated that is almost $30 million more than Shawnee’s projected $74 million budget.

Councilmember Kuhn stated that is almost $30 million that they spend more than Shawnee, not just this year, but every year. She stated even with the reduction in staff, they will still have about 400 employees for fewer citizens than Shawnee – almost 126 more full-time employees. She stated they have a lot more room in that $106 million to make cuts than Shawnee.

Councilmember Kuhn stated they have already pared their budget down over the past two and three years and have made all the cuts that they can that do not impact services any deeper. She stated as she has said before, and the data has supported it, their Shawnee staff is the type of staff that if they are given $1,000, they will get $2,000 of work and services out of it and then present the Council with a bill for $900.00.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she would argue that the level of service that the City’s employees provide is far more comparable to the City of Lenexa and how they do that with almost $30 million less each year is an amazing feat and one that never ceases to amaze her. She stated the staff has pared down these line items to the point that they can support their current level of services and have now asked the Council what other services and programs should they reduce.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she has reviewed the ideas that staff has brought to the Council, discussed it with them and with other councilmembers, with constituents, her friends, and with the piers in other cities. She stated the following items are some that she would like to have reviewed and further information brought forth to this Council in the months ahead as additional cost savings in potential cost saving areas in those programs. She stated these are by no means the only areas that she expects staff to look at, as they continue to look every day for ways to be more economical and she expects that to continue as years go on, but these are merely some ideas for further efficiency and cost savings.

Councilmember Kuhn began:

 Pursue minimal reductions in the service level of their pools. She stated their staff and City pools have presented them with several alternatives when they considered their fee increases and looked at their hours of operation. She stated while she does not want to make any further reductions to the cuts of their well used and well loved facilities, she PAGE 8 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

would like to see if there are any other ways where they could have minimal impact and perhaps save some additional dollars.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she believes when Deputy Parks and Recreation Director Lecuru provided the report to the Council, she brought to their attention that perhaps shortening the season by a few days in the beginning and a few days in the end, or taking a look at their hours of operation could save upwards of $49,000.

 Review the hours of operations and other potential ways to reduce the budget of Shawnee Town. She stated Shawnee Town is their jewel. She stated she has no interest in seeing it go away, nor does she have any interest in reducing what it does and the impact it has, not only on their citizens and the folks who visit it, but the school children who learn there every day.

Councilmember Kuhn stated as she said earlier, as they weigh their priorities, they could look at possible ways to reduce cost without taking away from that incredible operation.

 Reduce the amount of the transfer currently from the General Fund to the Stormwater Maintenance operations. She believes they should further look at consolidating their stormwater programs into the utility fund and explore utilizing that fund for more and more of their stormwater functions. She stated that could result in a $50,000 decrease from General Fund transfers this year.

 Explore alternative delivery methods for the CityLine and Parks brochure. She stated the staff has done research on this and brought forward some ideas it the past. She believes that getting the information out to their public on the important projects they have, those great opportunities they give the citizens of the City, and all those classes in the Parks Department is one of the most important things they do and she could never support doing away with that publication.

Councilmember Kuhn stated times are what they are and she believes they should look at some alternative delivery methods. She stated if there is a way of lowering the cost of doing this piece, keeping the quality, and getting out the information, while reducing those costs, they should look into them.

 Postpone the replacement of rehabbing the Council chambers. She believes the efficient use of their City Hall space, the one they are all sitting in tonight, is very important, however it is not just used for Council meetings and is also used for developers, community meetings, and an opportunity to have task forces come before them who help come up with ideas to do better in the City.

Councilmember Kuhn stated it is somewhat embarrassing some days to have to drag the developers and constituents who are meeting with their staff, through the mailroom, down the back stairs, and into a meeting room that is hard to find and where they can hear the toilet flush every time someone goes to the bathroom, but again, these are hard times and they need to make adjustments, so she would recommend they live without that for a little longer at a savings of about $16,000 this year.

 Councilmember Kuhn stated they should revisit the KCP&L leasing contracts on their signals. She stated the staff has mentioned this for many years, since she has sat on the Council, and they have done some preliminary work on this. She stated she would like to think that KCP&L would be interested in bringing down their prices for the City, especially in this economy and this could be as good a time as any to pursue that. In fact, it is always cheaper to buy than lease and could be a wonderful opportunity for the City. PAGE 9 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

 Exploring a furlough option that would tie into their existing holidays. She stated if looking towards the end of the year if they continue the need to tighten their belt every day more than they had even anticipated, she would recommend they look into furlough days for their employees. She stated if need be to look at furloughs, she would like to see them tied into a holiday to minimize not only the negative impact on their employees, but also the negative impact on their constituents who may need use of City services.

 Explore alternatives for less intensive ways to license pets. She stated the purposing of licensing pets to her is two fold, one being safety – insuring that the pets in this community are vaccinated properly and secondly, as a service – a helpful way for the City to return lost pets to their owners and decrease the overcrowding in their shelters and does not want to give up these services. She stated perhaps there are more cost effective ways to accomplish this.

 Evaluate and look for alternatives in their current crossing guard program. She stated one of the most expensive items on their budget is their crossing guard program and she is a big supporter of it – the crossing guard program, not the expenditures. She believes between the City and the schools, it is their duty to keep their children safe, but would like to see the information from other cities on how they have accomplished this and also would like to see some possibilities of partnering, not only with the PTA and parents and volunteer groups, but other ways in which they can reevaluate their crossing guard program and hopefully reduce its costs.

 Explore the possibility of partnerships for Christmas decorations and holiday banners. She stated she received an email from Tony Lang, a constituent, who brought this idea to her – an opportunity to hopefully use all kinds of partnerships between existing businesses, community volunteer groups, and charitable organizations, to help get this type of work done and reduce the cost to the City.

Councilmember Kuhn stated after further discussion, David Morris brought up additional ideas on those community volunteers and how important it is to be a part of the city and help reduce those costs by not only giving their time, but hopefully giving of their energy.

 Councilmember Kuhn stated there are three last organizational areas that were on the staff list for ideas of reducing costs that had made some sense to her, based on where they are today. She stated she will leave it up to the staff to determine how to approach these, as it would not make sense for the Council to direct the day to day operations and would only suggest these if the vacancies were in place. However, she thinks they could explore ways to integrate and consolidate their development functions, secondly explore the ways to integrate and consolidate their neighborhood planning program with other functions, and lastly, explore ways to allocate the responsibilities for the City web page functions to the data centers.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she does not know an exact dollar value on all of these changes, as some are changes for today, tomorrow, and some for the long run, but she does believe, as City Manager Gonzales has said many times, the budget is an ongoing project and they will continue to look at it year-round.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she believes they would be doing a disservice to this city and to their constituents if they did not continue to revisit this budget often, in fact, monthly, daily, weekly, and sometimes she feels hourly.

Councilmember Kuhn stated with that said, even with all the reductions and services she has looked at, she can not see how they would be able to get to a budget where their revenue will equal their expenditures and could also include a street maintenance program that this City desperately needs. PAGE 10 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Kuhn stated the staff estimates that based on the number of lane miles in Shawnee it would cost an estimated $5 million annually for that street program. She stated consequently, while she ask that staff brings forward information to the Council on the aforementioned reductions, it will not be and is not enough. She stated she would support passing a budget that would include both those reduced expenditures and increased revenue.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she can not accept allowing a future where Shawnee is a less attractive or less desirable city than currently and she can not in good conscious sacrifice all those very things that make Shawnee special.

Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Scott, moved to accept the proposed 2010 budget of $76,853,962 with an estimated tax rate of 24.693 mills and the total Ad Valorem Tax to be levied of $17,707,372.

Councilmember Pflumm stated they are still in a public hearing actually and normally they would make the motion after the public hearing is closed.

Mayor Meyers stated actually a motion can be made at any time by the Council. He stated they will still listen to all comments from the Council and the audience.

Councilmember Kuhn stated in no way did she intend for that to be a motion that would be voted on immediately and thinks she said in her opening, that having some specific things on the table and a direction for them to discuss is what she hoped to achieve.

Councilmember Goode asked for the amount of the total tax that has been talked about for the last 15 minutes.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she apologized for the length of her speech, but they took a while to go over.

Councilmember Pflumm stated they have sat through about 12 budget hearings and Councilmember Kuhn never said one word about cuts until tonight.

Councilmember Kuhn stated that is not true, in fact she has talked about a number of them many times in regards to the things they needed to look at. She stated she remembers specifically talking about the possibility of consolidating areas, but does not believe line item cuts are something she has ever suggested from individual areas and has always said that it should be programs they need to look at reductions of, and how to make the government smaller.

Mayor Meyers asked the Councilmembers to remember to be recognized before they speak.

Councilmember Goode stated if Councilmember Kuhn presents this, she has to have a total.

Councilmember Kuhn stated unfortunately she does not have a specific number on some because they would have to be dependent on how much of a budget they were able to negotiate between KCP&L. She stated on the hard costs, she knows there was at least $49,000 in the pool reductions, at least $16,000 in Chamber choices, and depending on the timeframe, a single day furlough, if it would come to that, is estimated at $73,000 in savings. She stated transfer reductions from the General Fund to Stormwater would be an estimated $50,000 in savings this year. Exploring delivery methods for CityLine, based on the information brought forward to the Council, looks somewhere in the neighborhood of $15,000 to $17,000 in savings. PAGE 11 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Kuhn stated the others would be dependent on how they were able to consolidate. She stated with the crossing guards, it would depend on if they were able to work a community. She stated Plan Out is not something the PTA has signed on to, so it would be irresponsible for her to say they should cut it, but if they would be able to find a way in the long run to reallocate that, that is $150,000.

Councilmember Goode stated that would be around $750,000 to $800,000.

Councilmember Kuhn replied that would not be off this year’s budget. She stated she did not suggest an $850,000 line item cut from this budget and thinks that is an irresponsible answer. She stated there is at least in the neighborhood of around $203,000 in this year’s budget with long term potential savings.

Councilmember Goode asked if she only got $203,000.

Councilmember Kuhn stated that is correct – off this year’s budget.

Councilmember Straub stated he also has a few suggestions on cuts and has been looking quite a bit at it for quite a while.

Councilmember Straub stated he has mentioned this quite a bit and has brought it up at several Council meetings. He stated right off the bat, the travel budget is one he has wanted to cut for quite some time and has received a lot of resistance from the Council cutting it down to $40,000. He stated he made a compromise that they cut it down to $91,850, at a savings of $100,000 and would also leave it up to the staff to determine where the needs are for that travel. He stated it will be left up to where Police and Fire and where they have to go for emergency training – what is absolutely required that they can not do online or in-house, or whatever.

Councilmember Straub stated with regard to receptions, they have a lot of parties all year long and he thinks a lot of them can be cut. He stated he went through some of the budget and is still trying to get more detail on it. He stated they have thousands of dollars of gift certificates for Chili’s and HyVee is catering quite a few parties – so there is a lot of stuff that he has not been able to get full detail on and that was just for 2008. He stated they are working on those numbers.

Councilmember Straub continued with reduction in education. He stated $12,000 is for the staff to go on education and while he believes education is important, he thinks they need to look at bare bones and what is the most important that they actually need to do this year. He stated he cut that from $213,000 to $100,000 at a savings of $113,200.

Councilmember Straub stated with regard to printing, they talked earlier about doing the CityLine and even talked about doing it in the Dispatch and could probably do it on newspaper print and save that quite a bit. He stated letterhead should be done on the computer these days, so he thinks they can cut printing. He stated they had $5,000 worth of City Council letterhead and envelopes and he knows there was three letters sent out to an Eagle Scout.

Councilmember Straub stated with regard to photography, he looked at the budget and a lot of that is from the purchase of several cameras over he past couple of years and while he agrees the City needs good cameras, hopefully they will last 2-3 years, because their budget keeps increasing in photography. He stated they went from $8,400 to $3,000 at a savings of $5,400.

Councilmember Straub stated with Dues and Subscriptions, he knows that some people need to be members of each Kansas League of Cities – maybe/maybe not. He stated there is the PAGE 12 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

National League of Cities and he knows they need to be members of MARC, but he knows there has to be some cuts there and suggests they cut that from $112,000 to $50,000 at a savings of $62,000.

Councilmember Straub stated people say that is a temporary fix for next year, but it does not have to be. He stated they may do not need it in 2010, 2011, or 2012.

Councilmember Straub stated with Office Furniture, there was $112,000 for new office furniture and equipment. He stated he knows they just furnished the new Justice Center and Fire Station and a lot of the old furniture is still over in the old Police station, so he hoped they could use some of that and cut it down to $24,000 of new furniture at a savings of $100,000.

Councilmember Straub stated they also had $99,300 for office furniture repair. He stated he is not sure if the chairs or desks are breaking, but from $99,000, he reduced it to $49,300 with a savings of $50,000.

Councilmember Straub stated he agrees with Councilmember Pflumm in that they do not need new furniture in the Council Chambers, so that saved them $16,000. He stated he knows when things are tight and people tighten up their budget in everything, usually 5% can be shaved almost anywhere. He stated they have Professional Services and he did not get what that includes, but it includes a lot of different things. He stated he would guess that any good manager or department head could shave 5% off almost everything, he would suggest cutting Professional Services by 5% at a savings of $91,000.

Councilmember Straub continued with Contractual Services. He stated that is almost $7.9 million in Contractual Services and knows that is different studies and different things the City needs to do, but also knows that is wide open on stuff. He stated they can probably do more stuff in house since there are some employees and less work, as Councilmember Kuhn said, in development and planning, because right now there is not much happening. That is a savings of $394,000 – almost $400,000.

Councilmember Straub stated he thought the office supplies line item was strange, because they have 273 employees and a $170,700 office supplies cost and he did not get clarification on it. He stated to spend $600 to $800 per employee for office supplies each year, he thought was high. He stated he knows he does not have all the details, although he has asked for it and for some reason, their accounting system can not do that at this point and the staff is looking to fix that.

Councilmember Straub with Land Improvements, that did not even exist in 2006 and it jumped up to $200,000 in 2007 and has now jumped up to $350,000. He stated if they did not have that line item three years ago or four years ago, they could probably cut it. He stated he is not sure if they are improving vacant land, but again he would have to leave it up to staff to determine what is most important to improve, because right now it is tough for everyone.

Councilmember Straub continued with Playground Equipment. He stated the City has awesome parks and he would not want to hurt the City’s parks at all, but thinks they may need to just stick with the playground equipment they have for another year instead of purchasing almost $32,000 worth of playground equipment.

Councilmember Straub stated Technology continues to go up, even though he knows 2-3 years ago the City bought all new computers everywhere because everyone now has the flat screens and he is still working off the big screen. He stated those flat screens did not come out until about 3,4,5 years ago, so no one’s screen is over 4 or 5 years at the most. He stated he knows it is nice to have because it gives people more room on their desks, but he thinks they need to figure out where they need to cut in technology. PAGE 13 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Straub stated one of Councilmember Kuhn’s recommendations was the web page at $75,000 and he will let them all figure that out.

Councilmember Straub stated with regards to postage, if they are not going to mail out the CityLine, he knows that is a huge postage situation and maybe just try to do more email, he went from $59,000 to $39,000 at a savings of $20,000.

Councilmember Straub stated the Neighborhood Planning Program mentioned earlier by Councilmember Kuhn, handles three neighborhoods, which is the information he received. He stated he can not imagine $20,400 per neighborhood. He stated if they spent that much money on a neighborhood, then that neighborhood should be in really good shape. He thinks that is a lot of money for three neighborhoods and that the program has been going on for four or five years.

Councilmember Straub stated those are his recommendations and really tried hard for. He stated he knows Lenexa is doing a lot of cuts in employees, benefits, and layoffs, but he tried not cutting any employee salaries. He stated he also looked at not cutting any employee benefits, even though when times get hard is where, unfortunately, most companies go. He stated he is not saying that should not be looked at, at all, when times are hard.

Councilmember Straub stated he did not cut any services to the public. He stated he did not cut anyone’s snow removal, no person’s hours at the pool, and would like to bring back the 4th of July and Easter events. He thinks if they make serious cuts, and these cuts come to $1.4 million and if he were to receive more detail, he thinks they could come up with more and thinks they could work it out.

Councilmember Straub stated he is not a professional accountant or a City Manager. He stated that is why he has asked to get a city audit in here to see where they can cut.

Councilmember Straub stated basically to have employees already getting 27-30 days already off to give them a furlough day, most of them do not already use the days they already get and they end up buying those days back from them when they retire. He stated that is definitely something to look at, but that just means they will take days off they do not get paid for and will not use their vacation days and will end up getting those paid out, so that might not be a great win.

Councilmember Straub stated he is okay with the crossing guard program and agrees they do not want to cancel that until it actually has been replaced. He stated there was a newscast on the Liberty School District and they had a financial audit and found hundreds of thousands of dollars that were probably misspent or could have been better spent, so he knows there are those types of things out there and he really recommends they do that.

Councilmember Straub stated he would support a budget that would have these cuts in them, so he will know the City can actually pay their bills, get the mill and overlay back up and running a little, and pay for the audit he has been asking for.

Mayor Meyers stated one of the things he thinks is real important here, is that they get into a situation where they are having troubles in their budget and it is very tempting to become micromanagers. He stated they have a City Manager whose job and purpose of their position is to tell the Council what kinds of needs they have that will allow them to be able to function this city in a manner they think is appropriate and give their citizens the best services possible without interrupting too much the basic responsibilities of this City.

Mayor Meyers stated he thinks City Manager Gonzales has provided for the City. He stated he thinks many times when they look at these line items, sometimes they have titles and a lot PAGE 14 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

of time people think if that is the title of the line item, then that is what is to be cut or what it is being used for.

Mayor Meyers stated he will give an example and could give examples for every one of them. He stated some of them are different than some of the items he saw on the website. He stated he knows when they talk about not wanting to cut any personnel or benefits of employees, when they reduce the Neighborhood Planning Program by $61,200, they are not only cutting an employee’s salary, but getting rid of that employee. He stated it includes a person – that $61,200 is a salary for a person who does the work as the Neighborhood Planner. He stated some of these things do include reduction of work force.

Mayor Meyers stated when he sees reducing land improvements from $350,000 to $150,000 on the website it said, cut it altogether.

Councilmember Straub asked what website the Mayor is referring to.

Mayor Meyers stated that line item includes $200,000 of that $350,000 in the Crack and Seal Program. He stated Shawnee does not even have a Mill and Overlay Program and have not had one for two years and now they want to wipe out their Crack and Seal Program along with it. He stated to him that is drastic basic services that this City needs to provide to keep their roads up.

Mayor Meyers stated he knows that Councilmember Goode knows how important the Crack and Seal Program is to this City, because they have talked about it many times in Council meetings. He stated not to even have a Mill and Overlay Program, which to him is essential, if they keep going at the rate they are going in not having a Mill and Overlay Program in this city, it is going to catch up to them to a point where they are going to have a very difficult time recovering and that is a basic service that needs providing; an expensive service, but something that is expected.

Mayor Meyers stated when they talk about reducing new office equipment and furniture from $124,000 to $24,000, which is not about purchasing chairs or tables, but not doing upkeep on the computer servers. He stated he thinks they can get detailed information on every of the line items. He stated it sounds like they are talking about reducing repair of office furniture and has Councilmember Straub said, it sounds like they have chairs or tables that are broken down. He asked if there are situations where things like that take place and answered yes, but that budget line item includes things such as if the computer servers are going down or other technology problems in the City that has to be repaired. He stated it is not just something where they can say they are going to take $100,000 out of that budget and be able to function normally in any way as this city needs to function.

Mayor Meyers stated with regard to reducing office supplies to $40,000, he knows it sounds like $40,000 is a lot of money, but when they are talking about all the office supplies it takes and he can ask City Manager Gonzales or Assistant City Manager Charlesworth to be more specific as to what that line item includes if they want to go through each one of those and have that type of discussion, but it will take a very long time. He stated he has looked at it and said they are essential items that the City needs in order for the departments to function and do their jobs.

Mayor Meyers stated if he felt as if there were situations where they were really extravagant or going out of their way to do some things that are not essential to running the city business, he would be all for making some of the cuts. He stated with regard to reducing printing, when they reduce printing from $87,800 to $27,000, he does not think Councilmember Straub understands the scope of what he is talking about in the City reducing the needs it has on printing costs. PAGE 15 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Mayor Meyers stated postage was another issue. He asked where they not stop mailing essential items that have to be used for postage. He stated with the Court Services Department alone, he can guarantee that some of the things they mail are essential to running that department to the citizens needs and to the operation of that part of government that can not be reduced, or at least reduced to the kinds of numbers Councilmember Straub is talking about.

Mayor Meyers stated he trusts when the City Manager has meetings and meets with the department heads and they come up with a budget, he trusts and looks into it and if he is happy with that amount of money, they are doing their job. He stated if they, as a Council, want to act towards saying they want to make a decision on dropping a program, then that is another thing.

Mayor Meyers stated he does not think the Council should get into micromanaging with some of what these items are doing, especially if they do not have a very good understanding of what is included in each line item. He stated there were many times when he had to ask City Manager Gonzales about things because he was not sure what was included in a certain line item. He stated he has sat down and had discussions with City Manager Gonzales on some of these things and received the answers he needed to feel comfortable that he understood things better.

Mayor Meyers stated there has been a lot of information sent out. He took Photography as one example and stated he does not think there is any question with the detailed report that City Manager Gonzales sent out to all the Council that they could not understand the importance of that line item.

Mayor Meyers stated he could go through each line item and if there are questions and someone needs to know what is included in that particular one, it can be said. He stated he thinks when they talk about reducing Education from $213,000 to $100,000 they are talking about putting the City staff and each department into a dangerous area of not having the type of training and understanding of what they need in order to keep this community safe, among other things. He does not think there is anyone out there who does not understand the importance of education and when they are talking about cutting upwards towards 50% of that line item, it is irresponsible and something he would consider unacceptable.

Councilmember Straub stated there are a couple of things that confuses him. He stated first, for one employee to take care of three neighborhoods, he asked if that is all they are doing.

Mayor Meyers replied that is not all they are doing.

Councilmember Straub stated he would suggest getting rid of that, if they only take care of three neighborhoods.

Mayor Meyers reiterated that is not all that that particular person does.

Councilmember Straub stated in the packet that was given to the Council by City Manager Gonzales, that was one of the recommendations, or actually was presented by the City Manager and she basically said that is all they do and when it started and how long it has been going, so he guesses he did not get the full detail of all that person does, because that is not what was included on that sheet.

Councilmember Straub stated it was mentioned that he suggested cutting offices supplies down to $40,000, but he actually went from $170,000 to $130,000 and cut them $40,000, so that is still almost $500.00 per employee. He stated that he believes that Finance Director Kidney will back him up on this, because he has asked for details of this stuff and he says that his financing/accounting . . . or program will not be able to give him any detail. PAGE 16 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Finance Director Kidney replied he believes they did provide Councilmember Straub detail on the General Ledger. He stated from what he understood, Councilmember Straub was asking for the Accounts Payable listing to be matched with the General Ledger detail. He stated unfortunately the City’s reporting system does not allow those two reports to tie into each other.

Councilmember Straub asked if they could do a V-cast, or whatever it is called, where they merge two reports.

Finance Director Kidney stated he thinks he explained that.

Councilmember Straub stated he would explain, to make sure they are both on the same page. He stated he wants to know what the City spent, who they spent it to, who they paid, and what it was paid for. He stated several of them just said “U.S. Air”, so he is assuming that was airline tickets, but does not know what it was and that is probably a fairly good assumption, but they do not know who those airline tickets are for or where they were going and that is just one example. All it described basically is who they paid the check to and did not give definitions of what it was for.

Councilmember Straub stated he knows Quick Books would do that for the City, but he knows they do not use Quick Books.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he thinks the City is a little bigger for Quick Books.

Councilmember Straub stated there are probably bigger systems and Quick Books may have one. He stated he was not able to get the detail and Mayor Meyers said they could get any detail they wanted.

Mayor Meyers explained the way he did it, is he came in, asked staff a question, sat down with them, and they were able to give him situations of where they spent money out of this budget.

Councilmember Straub stated he does not have time to sit . . . he has asked for it so he could work on it himself and look through things, but that is neither here nor there. He stated he went through the Photography detail and a lot of it was to buy cameras and equipment out of that budget for 2008, but they have the same budget for 2009, or similar and actually it was more, so he is assuming they are buying more cameras. He stated in 2010 they are buying more cameras, so the cameras should be lasting and he is not sure what they do with their old cameras, if they sell them, give them away, or throw them away.

Councilmember Straub stated there are some things in here that are legitimate cuts. He stated a website was mentioned where they were getting [it off from] and he does not know if all the people out here know of the website that Mayor Meyers was talking about.

Mayor Meyers explained it was the website that Councilmember Straub put in the newspaper.

Councilmember Straub stated he had put a website together with some suggested cuts to get some conversation going and he is not a Webmaster, so it is not that fancy of a website. He stated he just put that out there to get a feel for things and people calling him and emailing him. He stated these are cuts that he went through and would support and it was said by councilmembers and staff at the last meeting that they would rather . . . these are budgets that they do not want them to go over, so they give them a certain amount, for example, $100,000 in that budget and hope they do not go over it. He stated he would rather give that same person a budget of $85,000 and hope they only go over it very little, rather than . . . PAGE 17 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Straub stated he knows when he gives his kids allowance and they have $40.00 a month with that allowance, well it is spent because they have $40.00 and do not spend $45.00 because they do not have it. He stated they do not spend $30.00, because they have $40.00. He stated he would actually like to downsize the budget so they could say if someone goes over their Education budget, because there is a necessity that, by God, they did not get all the training done for X Y Z that needs to be done, then yea, they go over that budget in that area. He stated this is not all . . .

Councilmember Straub stated he does not think any of them said it at $213,000 and they could still go over that, can’t they?

Mayor Meyers replied he would think if City Manager Gonzales did not think that it was important to have that budget at that number, she would not have put it at that number. He stated Councilmember Straub wants to arbitrarily just move that number by a reduction of 50%.

Councilmember Straub stated he has experience with that budget.

Mayor Meyers stated Councilmember Straub does not really understand the ramifications that could have on the way the City functions.

Councilmember Straub stated he knows when most companies are having trouble, they cut the travel budget first thing and also start trimming wherever they can, so that is what he thinks the City should do, because they are not able to just keep raising taxes, but he guesses they are, because he is sure there are five votes on this Council that they would never turn a tax down, so they will find out.

Councilmember Distler stated Councilmember Kuhn had some brilliant ideas and Councilmember Straub has some ideas that she does not think would hurt to look into.

Councilmember Distler stated she wanted to share a little blurb she found from Catherine Barrett and Richard Greene, national experts in government management, principals of Barrette and Greene, and consultants to the Pew Center on the States. She stated it says they have written before about the concept of the big pencil and with retail, the phrase refers to a buyer who makes such big purchases that he can get the best price, but it is difficult for municipalities and counties to take advantage of these economies of scale, unless they join together. This is hardly a new idea, but here is a terrific example of what they think makes the case simply and powerful. It is part of Governor Mitch Daniels’ own one Indian initiative and came to their attention from inside Indiana business. The program deals with road salt used in winter weather. Starting in the spring, cities and counties aggravated their salt needs into one single statewide bid and the result was $8.5 million in savings.

Councilmember Distler continued, Historically, communities have gone it alone and been forced to pay a higher price for salt, Mark Everson, Commissioner of the Indiana Department of Administration told Inside Indianan Business, “In these difficult economic times, it is important to leverage the state’s buying power. Communities consult to weigh these substantial savings and then plow them back into essential services for Hoosiers. This is a clear win/win for both the state and locals.

Councilmember Distler asked if this is something they have ever attempted to do with their fellow cities in Johnson County.

City Manager Gonzales answered absolutely. She stated actually part of their MARC membership benefits, is there is a MARC regional cooperative purchasing group that Shawnee has used many times. She stated they work together with Johnson County and the City’s purchasing manual actually states that if there is another state or local contract that has PAGE 18 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

been bid recently, they can piggyback on it. She stated there are quite a few things, especially in the IT area, that they have bought under the State contract.

Councilmember Distler stated that was one of the things she was thinking about, things Councilmember Straub had said about the office supplies and things like that and if those are things they could bulk buy together outside of just salt and bigger things.

City Manager Gonzales stated they do a number of things like that with a group purchase.

Councilmember Distler stated some interesting things that came to her attention after Mr. Segale’s email about the mill levy, versus . . . and she knows they are not talking about taxes this evening, but since approving this budget is contingent on additional revenue, she asked if on this whole cap and trade thing that is going to be affecting utilities and the Republicans and Congressman Moore and others are saying if someone uses electricity or gas they will be affected by this bill and reports the estimate of cost of cap and tax legislation on each household to an additional $2,979.00 per year, this 5% they are talking about their current bill, are they not going to be paying substantially more with this cap and trade.

City Manager Gonzales stated she can not certainly answer that off the top of her head.

Councilmember Distler stated maybe that is something they . . . She stated if they are saying 5% now is costing the average citizen $12.00 a month, after this cap and trade goes through it may cost them $30.00 a month, but she does not know and is simply asking.

Councilmember Kuhn stated to Councilmember Distler’s point, she thinks that is a brilliant idea of where they could possibly look at some consolidations and as she talked about before, there is much better buying power in big number, she had an opportunity the other day, and it is not part of her presentation just because it is so new, to talk to the new mayor of Roeland Park who she met through one of the Kansas Municipality classes and had another opportunity to go through a Kansas Civic League lab with her, so she felt comfortable calling her to tell her that they are currently working with a couple other cities on a fuel exchange.

Councilmember Kuhn continued that she believes they are calling it Smart Fuel, but has not received enough details on it and is one thing she is asking staff to look into, but because of those very good relationships they have with Roeland Park and a couple of the other cities, it is something that they think they might be interested in letting Shawnee come to the table and look at consolidating, so she believes the City has had a lot of good opportunities such as that. She thinks that is a great place for Shawnee to look, but unfortunately it is not something that will save them any money today, but when they have talked about looking at today, tomorrow, and way down the line, that is a great place for them to explore.

Councilmember Pflumm thanked everyone for coming this evening and thinks if the room was not so full they probably would not even be talking about cuts. He stated he was one of the individuals who helped put together budget cuts and thinks they are legitimate. He stated they were on the website.

Councilmember Pflumm stated he has a couple of comments in reference to Councilmember Kuhn’s comments about items to look at. He stated one comment was that Lenexa just had an article in the paper about all their cuts. He stated they are cutting internally without affecting the citizens of Lenexa.

Councilmember Pflumm stated there were a couple things brought up about Lenexa having a lot more employees, but they have a lot bigger tax base. He stated Lenexa has $30 million more because they have a lot of business infrastructure in place paying a lot of taxes. He stated Lenexa’s population soars to well over 100,000 during the daytime when a lot of those people go to work, so yes, they have a bigger budget and bigger city than Shawnee. PAGE 19 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Mayor Meyers clarified that Lenexa does not have a bigger city.

Councilmember Pflumm asked Mayor Meyers to excuse him, because he might have miss- spoke there. He stated Lenexa has a lot more issues, probably than Shawnee, so that is why they have a bigger budget and have more people to deal with than Shawnee, because he does not believe Shawnee’s population soars to over 100,000 people during the daytime.

Councilmember Pflumm stated he has talked about development and Shawnee needs to have commercial development to support the residents they have; otherwise the taxes are going to go up. He stated if they vote YES tonight on this budget, the people’s taxes are going up – period.

Councilmember Pflumm stated Councilmember Kuhn brought up the pools and reducing the hours and all that and how it is not a big deal. He stated it is a big deal. He stated the City just spent $9 million over at Splash Cove for that pool, so it should stay open longer not shorter. He stated with regard to Old Shawnee Town – he does not recommend closing that either and thinks the citizens of Shawnee have paid for it.

Councilmember Pflumm stated with regard to the Stormwater Utility, the City just raised a tax, and he is not exactly sure when they implemented the Stormwater Utility, but believes it was four years ago.

City Manager Gonzales stated she believes it started in 2006.

Public Works Director Freyermuth confirmed 2006 was the first year for the Stormwater Utility.

Councilmember Pflumm stated three years ago the City initiated a new tax on the citizens and businesses of Shawnee. He asked what that tax generates.

Public Works Director Freyermuth replied that tax roughly generates about $1.5 million per year.

Councilmember Pflumm stated the City got a tax increase for that three years ago and two years ago they got a mill levy increase that generated $2 million; he asked if that is correct.

Finance Director Kidney confirmed it generated $2.1 million.

Councilmember Pflumm stated he was off by $100,000 then. He stated in the last three years, the City has gained a considerable amount, $3.6 million, and then they cut the Mill and Overlay Program $1.7 million, but all that money has to go some place. He stated the City is increasing and they have cut projects and have cut the Monticello North and Monticello South projects. He stated granted the City is not going to pay for those in one year, but Monticello South was approximately $15,000.

Councilmember Sawyer clarified it was actually $15 million.

Councilmember Pflumm stated with $15 million, the City would be paying the interest payment on that in the long payment if they were to sell their bonds and do all that, so that has been cut. He stated they also just cut Monticello North and those are all projects the City should have had done. He stated he believes Monticello South was on the books for 2007 to be completed.

Councilmember Pflumm stated granted, the City ran into a lot of pipeline problems so that project got moved, but supposedly the City had the funding to do that project. PAGE 20 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Pflumm stated with the cuts they put out on [that website] were very legitimate and he has one question for City Manager Gonzales. He stated he went through each and every budget for departments and he does not care if the budget is $10.00, $1,000,000, or $100.00, they could cut. He stated the citizens and business owners of this city are making cuts and they are not voluntary.

Councilmember Pflumm stated he has another question on land improvement. He stated on the thing the Council was provided, it was not in the 2008 budget, but was in the 2009 budget and he believes that that $250,000 was for the landscaping of the Justice Center because it was not included in the overall project, at least that is what he thought.

City Manager Gonzales replied she is not sure what Councilmember Pflumm is referring to when he talked about ‘one was in and one was out’.

Councilmember Pflumm stated in capital improvement outlays, there is Land Improvement. He stated in 2008 it was zero and in 2009 it was $250,000. He stated he was under the impression that that was because the City did not put enough money in their budget for the new Justice Center to do the landscaping and he thought that $250,000 was for that particular items.

City Manager Gonzales replied she believes that land improvement, as Mayor Meyers said earlier, was for the Crack/Seal Program and the Bridge Repair Program.

Public Works Director Freyermuth confirmed that is correct. He stated the $250,000 in 2009 were for those two items. He stated it was proposed for $350,000 in 2010 and $250,000 in 2009. He stated he is not quite sure why that does not show for 2008 either as far as that goes, other than it could just be the system for accounting for that year. He stated they have had the Crack/Seal and Bridge Repair programs for years. He stated Land Improvements back in the early part of 2003, 2004, and 2005, was close to a million dollars, because that also supported some of the Mill and Overlay Program.

City Manager Gonzales stated it is possible that was a transfer item into the Special Highway Fund.

Public Works Director Freyermuth replied it might have been, to where it zeroed out in 2008 just for accounting, but the money was still there to be spent in 2008 for those two programs.

City Manager Gonzales stated the other item in that line item is the Bridge Repair Program, which the staff has cut at least in half.

Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct. He stated in 2008 it was down to $75,000 and this year in 2009, it is $100,000 – the budget.

Councilmember Pflumm asked if that is a Crack/Seal Program, then how is that in the capital outlay. He stated he believes that is incorrectly labeled.

Public Works Director Freyermuth explained it is where they have had it for years, as far as that goes, and believes that is surely the best place for it. He stated he believes they started it years ago just to be able to help identify that that was that amount of funding, as opposed to land improvements maintenance which they have a lot of items in, including street signs, material purchases, traffic signals, and street lights. He stated there are just a lot of items purchased through that line item. PAGE 21 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Public Works Director Freyermuth stated he thinks with regard to those other two programs, it is just to help to identify total amount spent on street maintenance and they used that funding and goes back many years.

City Manager Gonzales stated the capital asset is the road and the bridge.

Public Works Director Freyermuth stated it is a capital asset.

City Manager Gonzales stated it is defined more as a capital asset. She stated there are numerous things and different line items. She stated someone could always make an argument to put something in a different line item.

Councilmember Pflumm asked if they added in 2009 $250,000 for landscaping.

City Manager Gonzales replied she does not think anything out of the Justice Center was paid for that was not in the Justice Center fund. She believes they did some of the work in- house and cash funded some items, but that was not included in that line item.

Councilmember Pflumm stated the intention of this website, and if anyone went there he hopes they found it informative, it probably did not have the detail that everyone needs, but it was put together in a very short timeframe. He stated they went through all the things [they] got and at least he has not received the detail that he has wanted in the past.

Councilmember Pflumm stated he knows Councilmember Straub got the expenditures in Excel format for 2008 and he would like to have those and has requested those in the past for 2005, 2006, and 2007. He stated he would still actually like to have those and would really appreciate it if he could get those from City Manager Gonzales.

City Manager Gonzales stated she and Councilmember Pflumm will have to get together to figure out exactly what Councilmember Pflumm and Councilmember Straub is looking for, because obviously what she and Finance Director Kidney think they are looking for is not something that can be transferred into an Excel spreadsheet, but they can certainly get together and talk about it.

Councilmember Pflumm stated when he talked to Finance Director Kidney, and Councilmember Straub is actually looking for a little more detail based on what each of these budget items are split out at. He stated what he is actually looking for is that he thinks they need to be more transparent and all that stuff should be readily available, especially to councilmembers, but also to the people who are paying the taxes.

City Manager Gonzales stated those are the same as the check registers that are included in every packet for every meeting.

Councilmember Pflumm stated that may be the case, but they can not read them and they are copied and scanned. He stated they can not even take software and try to dig them back into. He stated he has engineers working for him and they can not even do it and Finance Director Kidney told him he could do a printout in about two minutes. He corrected himself and said, not a printout, but a CSV file, Excel file, or whatever it might be and that is what he is looking for.

Councilmember Pflumm stated he has a lot of other budget items. He stated he knows they said they are cut to the bone. He stated he went through the information from Councilmember Straub and is not sure where to go. He stated it sounds like they are pretty much already done because a motion was made before they really talked about anything. He stated they would not have made that unless they already had five votes. PAGE 22 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Pflumm stated he knows there are areas like the National League of Cities. He stated that website that was put together by some of the councilmembers started off with the Council here and did not start off with the employees. He stated there was nothing in there that cut anything with the employees, but was one suggestion that was actually presented by City Manager Gonzales which was for the neighborhood program and it was expressed to him that there was an individual who does that and they only have three neighborhoods.

Councilmember Pflumm stated there are 21 or so other positions that are open, so that person should get moved into more of a beneficial job or something like that. He stated there are a lot of cuts the City can make.

Councilmember Pflumm stated MARC is not one of the items and that is one item where MARC takes care of divvying up a lot of the Federal dollars that comes to the Kansa City metropolitan area and that is under Dues and Subscriptions.

Councilmember Pflumm stated the National League of Cities is a Council thing and a lot of those cuts were geared toward the Council and he thinks it needs to start with them. He stated they have to make cuts and can not continue to just say it was in the budget last year. He stated they do not need to purchase a stapler every time, because staplers last for 100 years.

Councilmember Pflumm stated they can cut out stuff. He stated they do it in business and Councilmember Goode has mentioned they have to run this City like a business, so they should and need to do a better job. He stated he knows the staff is working hard, all the employees.

Councilmember Pflumm stated they went through things like the Paulo and Bill’s things and there are a lot of gift cards from 2008. He stated those are all good things, but the City should do those types of things when they have excess funds and not looking to the taxpayers to pay additional dollars, which they will with that budget.

Councilmember Pflumm stated there are a lot of travel expenses and he knows for 2010 and has brought this up before, he worked for Boeing and the first time they had a budget crunch, the first thing that went was travel. He stated travel went and any kind of receptions and in the City’s perspective all those kinds of things are put into the same thing.

Councilmember Pflumm stated he has three invitations with him tonight for City receptions. He stated one is for a new police officer and they could do those things potluck. He stated they can do little things like that and if they do not think they can not, they need to look around because there are a lot of people out there that do not have a job right now in America.

Councilmember Pflumm stated he could go a lot farther, but he guesses he will let more people make comment.

Mayor Meyers stated he would add a couple comments and has made his first comment several times, but they start several times talking about other communities that are nearby Shawnee, but he thinks the other communities nearby are having some of the exact same problems. He stated they brought up Lenexa more than a couple of times, but Lenexa is also delaying a $14 million project. He stated it is not like Lenexa had the foresight and thought they had the money to be able to do [this] and they are going to do it and all of a sudden there was the major downturn in the economy and had to make an adjustment.

Mayor Meyers stated Shawnee has had to make adjustments on their programs and one of their projects was the Monticello Road project, but Lenexa has to make the same type of PAGE 23 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

delay in a $14 million of their own. He stated this is not an uncommon situation that is just happening here in the City of Shawnee and is happening all across Johnson County and all across the United States.

Mayor Meyers stated some of the items that were on the website that concerned him and he kept seeing discussion to people that were not trying to get rid of, or were not trying to reduce salaries to employees, and he thinks one of the reasons why that got some people very excited was because it was mentioned at some previous Council meetings that there was the suggestion of cutting all employee salaries and then it became cutting everyone’s salaries except for Police, Fire and Public Works.

Mayor Meyers continued that further there was comment that they should only cut salaries of people who make $150,000 or more. He stated he asked who that might be, because the City does not have anyone who makes a $150,000 salary.

Councilmember Straub interjected by stating actually they do, because including benefits there are a lot of people who make over $150,000.

Mayor Meyers stated there is not anyone who makes a salary of over $150,000.

Councilmember Straub stated there are several if they include benefits and are well over $150,000.

Mayor Meyers clarified that there is no one with a salary of over $150,000. He stated when they start looking at some of these items, such as pet licensing at a proposed budget of $29,689 and that being reduced to zero, that is not only getting rid of that program, but also getting rid of that employee. He stated that includes a salary of a person.

Mayor Meyers stated when they talk about reduce development staff by $81,000; that is employees and reduction and not just reduction of someone’s salary, but completely taking away their position.

Councilmember Straub stated those were presented to the Council from the City Manager.

Mayor Meyers stated that is correct.

Councilmember Straub stated he put those on the website to get discussion out there.

Mayor Meyers stated Councilmember Straub did not present those on his item, but Councilmember Pflumm said ‘these are legitimate cuts that they need to make’.

Councilmember Straub asked who works for $23,000 a year for the City. He asked who they can afford to pay only $23,000 a year.

City Manager Gonzales stated she believes the number is $29,000 and that is the salary benefits, less the revenue generated by the program.

Councilmember Straub stated he believes Councilmember Kuhn even suggested they cut back on that. He asked Councilmember Kuhn to let him finish and said he will let her jump right in afterwards. He stated that is something they can look at and yes, he mentioned that salaries should be on the table. He stated they are darned right, if things get tougher and keeps getting tougher; things need to be looked at.

Councilmember Straub stated every company out there in the world, when things are tight, look at where they can cut. He stated every government, except Lenexa because they are doing it, just say ‘Let’s just raise taxes’, and eventually those taxes put companies out of PAGE 24 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

business and people having a hard time paying their light bills, power bills, and property taxes, so it does affect the entire community.

Councilmember Straub stated what Mayor Meyers is rattling off as far as the department or the development, the City is not developing a whole lot right now and that is what he believes was presented. He stated he does not have that sheet with him this evening, but would like a copy.

Councilmember Pflumm stated he has the sheet with him.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she has the sheet with her.

Councilmember Straub stated he is talking about the sheet from the City Manager that tells them what they were exactly due, because he believes in the presentation they said that building permits and building development is down right now, compared to what it was last year and the year before.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she has that sheet as well.

Councilmember Straub stated it has been said that inspections are down and those were potential suggestions, or whatever they want to call them because they were presented to the Council.

City Manager Gonzales stated they were definitions of programs.

Councilmember Straub asked City Manager Gonzales why she did not put every program on there.

City Manager Gonzales replied because they have 150+ programs.

Councilmember Straub stated obviously those programs were something – like the snow plowing program for the old folks that they were going to . . . that was a suggestion to cut. He stated it was not suggested, so whenever he said ‘suggested’ he really means ‘presented’. He stated it was presented to take out the senior franchise fee and the seniors were getting hit.

Councilmember Straub stated he had one person, Kevin Tubbesing, suggest they make a forced retirement where they say anyone over a certain age needs to retire and Kevin Tubbesing said there are people in this City over the age of 72 years of age working and he is not recommending that. He stated that is just what came out.

Councilmember Straub stated he knows Lenexa is doing some forced retirements and some buyouts. He stated he is not saying Shawnee should do that.

Mayor Meyers stated Lenexa is not doing forced retirements.

City Manager Gonzales stated they are doing retire/buyout packages.

Councilmember Straub asked if the City has an age limit for employees. He stated that was Kevin Tubbesing’s suggestion, not his. He stated everything should be on the table and they should be looking at everything and he believes that is what that website was all about, and they are legitimate cuts.

Councilmember Pflumm stated the website indicated there is $1.49 million worth of items on there and they need to come up with $850,000 worth of cuts for 2010. He stated it did not say they were going to cut every single item or 100% of every single item, but said if they PAGE 25 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

could come up with $850,000 [we thought] they could come to a consensus here about things that would be cut. He stated even Old Shawnee Days was put on there about cutting that $10,000 and really the only reason that was brought up was because when they added $10,000 to Old Shawnee Days, it was when they added $10,000 to Wonderscope and was presented to the Council by the City Manager that they reduce Wonderscope by $10,000, so it was put on there and presented to the people of Shawnee that they could possibly reduce Old Shawnee Days by $10,000, but nowhere is it saying they are going to cut every single thing or cut everything to zero.

Councilmember Pflumm stated there are items out there that can be cut and they can get to the $850,000 without a tax increase.

Mayor Meyers stated when he read the website, it said “Proposed budget reduced by $350,000 on land improvement’, so to him, that is not saying that is something the City might do, but that that was it and there was a total at the bottom of the page and to him that was a suggestion that that should be a program that should be wiped out to zero. He stated that was his concern when he thought that was the City’s Crack/Seal Program and Bridge Repair Program – essential basic services that they have to provide to their citizens.

Mayor Meyers stated they talk about the $850,000 that the City needs to be able to find and he keeps saying, one of his biggest concerns is that the City does not currently have a mill and overlay program and has not had one for two years. He stated somewhere along the line the City can not continue to function in that manner or they are going to get into a hole that they are not going to be able to get out of.

Mayor Meyers stated the direct affect on this community and to their residents is going to be drastic if it happens. He stated it will not be good and will be harmful and could become dangerous. He stated it is definitely not going to be the type of community that he believes people in this City expect to have.

Councilmember Sandifer stated to start with, reading the website, he is under the indication that it does not show that the City has already been cutting and just shows things that they have to cut. He stated the City has cut back considerably at this time.

Councilmember Sandifer stated people keep bringing up Lenexa and he was told just before tonight’s meeting that Lenexa had a reserve and they were going to use $5 million out of that reserve this next year because they had it available.

Councilmember Sandifer stated a few years ago when the City of Shawnee had not raised taxes for 14 years and in fact he believes they actually went down a little during that period of time, Gary Montague explained to the City that there was a date that the revenues the City had, extra resources, were going to be drained. He stated it came up to that time that a few of them stepped up to the plate because it was drained that year and had to make a decision and the City has yet to recover.

Councilmember Sandifer stated the City has not yet built back up a reserve. He stated Lenexa had a reserve built up and were able to use part of it. He stated when [you guys] are relaying information out to the public, they need to give all the information – both sides of the story. He stated they need to include what the other people have, what they are doing to dissolve their problem, and lay it all out on the line.

Councilmember Sandifer stated Shawnee does not have a reserve to draw off of at this time. He stated he read on the website and read all the information and everyone is back to running at 17%, the highest tax increase in the history of Shawnee and all of this stuff and realistically they are back to Square One again, when it was $6.71 a month for a $200,000 house at that period of time. PAGE 26 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Sandifer stated they can say 17.5% and play all the numbers, but the actual amount was $6.71 a month. He stated this particular franchise fee on a 1,500 square foot house, per se, is $3.00 per utility or $6.00 a month.

Councilmember Sandifer stated next year they have to cut more and the following year they have to cut more if they cut this back now. He stated the only thing they have to cut in the next two years are jobs. He stated the most jobs they have available in this city are Police and Fire.

Councilmember Sandifer stated he would give the example that last October his wife had to go into the hospital. He stated they called 9-1-1 and Shawnee was there in four minutes. He stated in two years if they have to cut everyone, they are talking about 15 minutes and his wife was blue on the floor. He stated if they had taken 15 minutes, he would have lost his wife.

Councilmember Sandifer stated if he has to vote in his house about $8.00 a month to save his wife’s life, that is what he is going to do. He stated he is sure there are a lot of elderly people in this city that do not want a response time of 12-15 minutes away on an emergency because it is life or death.

Councilmember Sandifer stated the rest of the councilmembers can make the decisions they want, but he believes that this franchise deal they have had into play at one period of time and taken it away, does not mean it can not be taken away later down the road, but for now he definitely is not going to jeopardize the safety of this city.

Councilmember Scott stated after what Councilmember Sandifer just said, which is terribly serious, this is not on that serious of a note, but has to pick on something Councilmember Pflumm said. She stated Councilmember Pflumm held up an invitation for a reception for a new policeman. She said when the City hired a new policeman and was totally freakin’ thrilled that they held that reception and to their credit, this was a punch and sheet cake reception. She stated they are not talking shrimp and cocktails here.

Councilmember Scott stated this was a new employee which was huge to this city and was not a blowout reception. She stated the City does not spend money unwisely.

Councilmember Kuhn stated with regard to Lenexa, please know that it is not just Lenexa as Shawnee is not in some great competition with them, but being as that they are similar to Shawnee, it is often easy to look at how this city’s resources are spent, versus those of similar cities.

Councilmember Kuhn stated speaking to what Councilmember Pflumm said earlier, that Lenexa is making internal cuts rather than services to their citizens and Councilmember Sandifer pointed out that they can maybe do that because they have a reserve, something else that did not come up this evening, is that not only does Lenexa, which they do and she is quite jealous of, have a much more significant commercial base than Shawnee, which does in fact bring in a higher tax revenue, they also have a franchise tax which has been in effect for years. She thinks they have had it for 10+ years.

Councilmember Kuhn continued that more importantly, Lenexa is also 2.4 mills higher than the City of Shawnee in their tax assessment for their homes. She stated Shawnee is charging less in their mill levy than Lenexa, they are not, or have not in the past, charged the franchise fee.

Councilmember Kuhn stated no one on the Council has a great want of instilling taxes, because she does not want to pay them any more than anyone else does, but she is more PAGE 27 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

impressed with the fact that Shawnee has managed to go longer than any of the surrounding cities, provide better than any of the surrounding cities, and wait until the last possible absolute necessity to bring in those funds to balance out their revenues and expenditures.

Councilmember Kuhn stated it not something Shawnee does lightly or something they do because they want to unwisely spend money, like Councilmember Scott said, at shrimp and cocktail receptions, but is because for years, long before she was on the Council and every year since she has been, when Mr. Montague was the City Manager, they heard that the revenues were not meeting the expenditures, so what were they going to do.

Councilmember Kuhn stated they do not want to raise taxes, so they waited to see if the economy came back. She stated their revenues were not going to meet their expenditures, the lines are getting further apart, and so what are they going to do. She stated she was one of the people who made what she believes was one of the hardest decisions of her life because she needed to get the lines a little closer together.

Councilmember Kuhn stated it is important, she thinks, when comparing the cities, to think of all of those things.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she would like to speak about the National League of Cities (NLC). She stated they are going to all have varying opinions on the Council about whether or not it is important for them to interact with their piers in other cities, whether or not they take classes that benefit them, and bring back knowledge that is beneficial – they can debate that all day.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks something that happens with it, is that it becomes that, for lack of a better word, the press grabbing moment. She stated in looking at the survey they all talked about, there was a detailed line item underneath it that said where they spent all the travel money and it spoke to Councilmember Sandifer traveling a number of times and to herself having traveled four times in 2008. She stated the problem is that she went back through her planner looking and looking for those 2008 travels, because she did not remember going.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she went back to the City budget and asked where it was that she went that she has spent irresponsibly all this money and did not remember going, because she remembered going to Washington D.C. and remembers it clearly because there was a lot of conversation when they returned on the Council about dinners. She stated she also remembers going to Wichita and does not think anyone in this room could think she is on a great political junket in Wichita for a class.

Councilmember Kuhn stated when they are looking at those expenditures, it is not just about what that line item looks like, but that that line item got set and then the Council did not go; most of them chose, she believes responsibly, to say when they need to learn, but thinks it is fallacy to say this year sometimes they have to cut stronger, because going right now is a luxury. She stated she is not sure some of them going right now is not a necessity, so they can converse with their piers from other areas of the country that are all going through the same things they are here in Shawnee and maybe get some fresh ideas and some new fixes; that is what they need to be educated about.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she had someone send her a request asking why can they not learn these things in this day and age through teleconference and through telephone and the answer is the same as she can not always learn the same thing taking college classes online that she can sometimes learn in a classroom. She stated for the same reason she can learn some things from pier groups in those colleges that she can not necessarily learn sitting by herself at a computer. PAGE 28 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Kuhn stated she is not justifying any one of those and would certainly be happy to speak specifically to any expenditure that she made under that line item because as councilmembers that is what they are responsible to the citizens for – the things that they make expenditures on.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she is responsible to the citizens to be able to justify those, so she thinks Councilmember Straub has every right to ask any councilmember up here about why they made their decisions, but thinks it is nothing more than a headline grabbing thing to talk about ‘that line item’ like it is the make or break – it is not. She stated that is why what she proposed is not about line items and small amounts, but about program changes that could make a difference now and in the long run.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she would like it clearly stated that she did not suggest that they should terminate an employee to change the pet program and on all three of those she discussed the fact that there is attrition and as openings happen, they should be looking at ways to reallocate their resources throughout the City, just like they have been doing for the 20+ other jobs they have not filled.

Councilmember Kuhn stated when it is said, ‘We should go ahead and reallocate that city planning person to another job’, then does that mean the City is not going to pay her because that $61,000 in savings only comes if they stop paying that employee. She stated if they have 20 openings right now, they can not shift one into that and still have a savings, but if through attrition they lose an employee and make smart decisions that their City Manager has continued to lead them on and fill that employee’s spot with their other employees and relook at allocating their workload and how they can make the most of every person they have, then they have some shots.

Councilmember Kuhn stated the very last thing she would say on that is about the $850,000 that keeps coming up. She stated it is not about $850,000 this year. She stated those cuts would have to be long term or possibly permanent. She stated they can not run a city without buying or fixing their servers, or run a city without buying or fixing their copiers, or run a city without training their employees.

Councilmember Kuhn stated it is not about what they want their city to look like this year, but about how they want their city to look like in the long run and she asked if they really want a city where none of their employees belong to their pier organizations so they do not discuss things with each other, where employees and councilmembers are untrained and do not know anything new that is going on, or do they want a city where they do not invest in the kinds of services they should to make sure that they are chip/sealing their roads.

Councilmember Kuhn asked if they really want to have to figure out whether or not they have to mail something from the court system or mail it from the Planning Department, because they only have half of their postage budget; that does not make sense and is not how they balance a city budget and is irresponsible and not how they should be doing things.

Councilmember Distler stated her point may seem to be somewhat irrelevant, but her thought triggered several points when Councilmember Pflumm was talking. She stated she had mentioned this to City Manager Gonzales and is an interesting concept she never thought of and wanted to share it with the department heads, with regard to those same experts in government management. She stated it does not specify which state they are looking at, but said that they sat on their desks for hours on end using pocket calculators to manually compute the difference between the state’s expectations and the realities.

Councilmember Distler continued by reading that the process really made them think about what the numbers were telling them and it helped to spot the numbers that were arithmetically correct but made no sense. This kind of work is a whole lot faster and easier PAGE 29 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

now with automatic programs and spreadsheets such as Excel doing all the calculations and returning bulk percentages, but they found that several things are missed and become very clear when they actually have their hands on the numbers. This is not suggesting that the good old days were actually unviable, just that there is a trade off for the brave new world.

Councilmember Distler stated she knows everyone is going to roll their eyes at her and say they got tired of sitting around the calculators, but she thought it was a good point in that they found things by not having automatic spreadsheets.

Councilmember Distler stated one other thought she had, again it is not something they like talking about, but just trying to recoup their costs, and not make a profit, with their mutual aid with Lake Quivira. She stated she knows they are part of the mutual aid program and with the other cities it makes sense, quid pro quo, the City helps them/they help us, but Shawnee really does not get that help back from them because they are a small private community.

Councilmember Distler asked if there would be any way they could just look at something of a service cost, so when Shawnee does respond they could just try to help cover the City’s cost so the citizens of Shawnee are not paying to protect the homes in Lake Quivira. She stated it does not make sense to her, so she would like to look into that as well.

Mayor Meyers stated one of the things he wanted to mention that made him think somewhat, is one of the items he saw about reducing postage from $59,900 to $39,900. He thinks one of the things that were mentioned was if they eliminate CityLine that is $15,000 of that amount of money.

Councilmember Kuhn stated it is not from that line item.

Mayor Meyers stated that is correct, in that CityLine has its own line item. He asked if that is correct.

Assistant City Manager Charlesworth stated the postage is included in the postage line item for it. She stated if they had a cut for the CityLine, that postage amount is included in that program cost.

Councilmember Pflumm stated it was listed under their postage in the General Fund, so they did not really do a bad thing there and maybe they just misunderstood.

Mayor Meyers stated he is merely saying they do not want to make it look like the reduction in postage is because they have cut the program of CityLine. He stated they are cutting that postage, plus another $20,000 out of postage that again, he just does not think some people understand the ramifications that has on the City staff and the different departments throughout the City when they just arbitrarily reduce that line item by another $20,000.

Councilmember Straub stated she thinks she was saying that $59,000 includes the CityLine mailing. He asked if that is correct.

Assistant City Manager Charlesworth stated she is not sure what the $59,000 number is being referred to by Councilmember Straub.

Councilmember Straub stated that is what was on the general budget as postage.

Councilmember Straub asked if they deal with The Dispatch on there and put it in there and he is not sure of the cost and thinks if they print it, like The Dispatch prints, in newspaper print, it will probably save the City a lot more money. He stated he is not saying that is the only thing they are cutting and is sure they can find other places to cut postage. He stated he is going to leave that up to the City staff to figure out what is best. PAGE 30 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Straub stated if they have to spend $39,900 which is the budget, but if they spend $41,000 then are anyone’s hands going to be spanked and answered, no. He stated he can not talk about anyone else’s kids and is sure a lot of kids put 50% of their income away in savings, but every dime he gives his kids they are waiting on next month’s allowance and spending it this month.

Councilmember Straub stated he thinks the larger budget the staff is given, and it was funny because Councilmember Kuhn said they did cut their postage in half and they actually cut it by one-third not one-half, but that is neither here nor there.

Councilmember Straub agrees about getting the lines closer together, but there are two ways to do that. He stated it is not just raising revenue, but also decreasing it.

Councilmember Straub stated in talking about website details, he will agree that he is not a website person and neither is Councilmember Pflumm. He stated the City has a phenomenal website and he has asked for more detail on the City’s website all the time. He stated they suggest all the cuts they have made and have listed on there that employees are participating in their healthcare. He stated yes they are participating in their healthcare and it sounds like they are paying a chunk of their healthcare, but it costs approximately $360.00 for an individual and they pay $7.96, so that is 2%, so it is not like they are attributing an astronomical amount now that they did not contribute before.

Councilmember Straub stated families at $1,080 contribute $140.00 – whatever that is, so it is not an astronomical amount. He stated Shawnee is the lowest out of all the other core cities in comparison, so he asked for more detail.

Councilmember Straub stated the argument that just because everyone else charges the franchise fee is a good idea – he does not buy that argument and just because everyone else is doing something, that is not a good argument that the City should do it.

Councilmember Straub stated with regard to the ambulance thing. That is a County thing and does not have anything to do with the City to the best of his knowledge. He stated if an ambulance is coming to someone’s house and it is not a city ambulance, but a county service that comes. He stated if someone is having a heart attack – they are coming.

Councilmember Sandifer asked Councilmember Straub where they are housed out of.

Councilmember Kuhn stated the fire department responds.

Councilmember Straub asked if the City is closing any of the fire departments.

City Manager Gonzales stated the Fire Department responds with the ambulance.

Councilmember Straub stated he agrees. He stated as far as he knows, none of these and he has asked and someone emailed him and he asked to show him where Police and Fire has been cut by any of his recommendations or Councilmember Pflumm’s recommendations and someone looks at it and says, “Oh, I don’t know, they might not have as much postage”, but that postage is not going to stop them from getting to someone’s house if they have a heart attack, or they might not be able to go on as much travel, but again, that is where they figure out what is the most important travel. He stated he would agree that training is important.

Councilmember Straub stated he heard someone say that is exactly what they were told and said, “If they make the cuts that Straub wants, the ambulance are not going to come to their PAGE 31 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

house and they will die of a heart attack”. He asked where that came from. He stated there are people out there not telling the whole story.

Mayor Meyers stated he thinks they have had plenty of time to speak as a Council and at this time he would like to open it up to the audience to be able to give some remarks. He asked the public not to be repetitive with their comments. He stated he believes public comment will go for quite some time and he would like to be as efficient as possible.

KEITH HAYS, 11707 W. 51st Terrace, stated he is not sure the police are here for crowd protection or crowd control and has been somewhat worried about that this evening. He stated he would make one observation before he starts on this complaints or suggestions and that is that the staff at the City of Shawnee are excellent and has done very well. He stated he has had a reason to contract them.

KEITH HAYS stated the first thing he would like to talk about this evening is the franchise tax. He stated Shawnee had a franchise tax until the mid 1980’s. He stated the people had voted down the sales tax twice and on the third vote they said they will eliminate the franchise tax if the sales tax was passed. He stated Mr. Montague wanted the sales tax.

KEITH HAYS stated if they are going to think about putting the franchise tax back, since it was done by an electoral process on the sales tax, he thinks the people should be able to vote on it. He stated first of all, the franchise tax is not deductible for anyone. He stated people can deduct property tax as a property owner if they itemize and if they are a property owner they can expense it and that serves the citizens even better, especially those who do not have much money.

KEITH HAYS continued with trash hauling. He stated that he and most of the people in his neighborhood that he has talked to does not want the City taking over the trash hauling and wants a choice. He stated most of them have dumped Deffenbaugh because they are sloppy and throw the cans anywhere and do not pick up the cash they spill. He stated as a result, they are strongly opposed to Deffenbaugh and they have the landfill and can keep it.

KEITH HAYS stated he was looking at expenses and on the brochure, someone mentioned cutting the brochure. He asked why not find the people who want to receive it, charge them a fee to mail it, and let them have it. He stated a lot of the people that he knows do not even read the darn thing, but get it and it is well done. He stated he does not think it is something that is really utilized as much as it could be.

KEITH HAYS stated the thing he wanted to look at more is the Governing Body expenses. He stated in 1975 salaries for the Governing Body were $3,000 and their total expenditures were $722.00. He stated that jumped to $6,000 in 1980 with $1,100 total expenditures. He stated in 1985 it went to $18,000, in 1990 it became $30,000, in 1995 it was $45,000, in 2000 $44,500, and in 2009 they have budgeted $240,200 for total expenditures for the Governing Body and the salaries are up to $93,000 and he is gathering from looking at the annual budgets, that they now receive cost of living. He asked if that is true each year.

City Manager Gonzales replied it had been structured that way in the past and she believes last year they did not budget a cost of living for the 2009 budget.

KEITH HAYS stated another place where many people feel they need to cut expenditures, is for the last six years they have averaged $250,000 to the Shawnee Economic Development Council. He stated they do not think that this should be expended for that purpose. He stated they noticed that most of them on their campaign contributions are contributed to by real estate developers, planned owners, etcetera, so they already have a stranglehold on them and he does not think they need to contribute more to that. PAGE 32 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

KEITH HAYS asked what kind of cost of living they gave for benefits for Police, Fire, and so forth this year.

City Manager Gonzales stated they have not done a market adjustment, which is what they call the cost of living, since the beginning of 2006. She stated they have done merit increases and have reduced that range. She stated their range this year is 0-4% which is based on performance.

KEITH HAYS stated the reason he asked is because he is familiar with Lawrence and their Fire Department asked not to receive a raise this year. He stated Lawrence did give them a half a percent anyway.

City Manager Gonzales stated the 2010 budget does not include any salary increases, for merit or market.

KEITH HAYS stated he thought the Lawrence Fire Department was very noble in making that offer. He stated the other thing he would point out to the Council is that Shawnee is not a full service city, not like Hutchinson, Topeka, or Manhattan, where they have all the utilities and all expenses. He stated Shawnee does not have sewers or many things that a full service city has and he heard someone say the City, and thinks the Mayor was quoted saying ‘Is getting by on less than Lenexa does’. He stated they have been saying that since the early 1970’s – always comparing Shawnee to Lenexa as the reason they would like to get more money.

KEITH HAYS stated the people would like to see the Council cut their travel expenditures and cut a number of things and he hopes the Council takes his comments into consideration.

Mayor Meyers thanked Mr. Hays for his comment. He stated he probably should have introduced him as Former Mayor Hays. He stated he thanks Mr. Hays for his service in that capacity.

RAY ERLICHMAN, 7510 Garnett Street, stated about six weeks ago he mentioned to one of the councilmembers his concerns about the crossing guard thing and then he found out about a week or so ago that another community member made some comments about it in an email and even Councilmember Kuhn brought it up this evening. He stated he thinks they can resolve it real quick.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated he will now go back 48 years. He stated he was a Triple AAA school crossing guard. He stated it is a heck of a program and used all around the country. He stated the Triple AAA website mentions they have about 500,000 students in about 50,000 schools, which is about right at 10 students per school. He stated they cover all the cost and it does not cost the school district anything and does not cost the city anything and they provide backup.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated there are five months to go before the end of this year and he thinks that is sufficient time to coordinate and bring in Triple AAA. He stated they can coordinate with the school district and the other comment was about bringing in the PTA involvement. He stated the PTA could get involved and volunteer and get enough parents from the PTA doing it and they might only have to do it one day out of every 10 days. He thinks that could answer that problem which is $130,000 a year which is a nice chunk of money.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated something happened at one of the budget meetings a few weeks ago and a comment was made about the contribution the City makes to Wonderscope. He stated there were four specific comments made by four specific individuals sitting up there tonight. He stated Councilmember Pflumm was first and said he wanted to see the books. PAGE 33 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

He stated Councilmember Distler said “They are like every other tax exempt organization and their information has to be made available just like the United Way”. He stated Councilmember Kuhn said, “No, they do not have to make their information available, because they are private.” He stated Mayor Meyers said, “If anyone wants to take the time to look for it, there are forms out there they can look at.”

RAY ERLICHMAN stated Wonderscope’s records are not private. He presented a blank IRS Form 990. He stated right underneath the year it reads Open to public inspection. He stated anyone who is a 501C organization that files for tax exempt status, their complete tax filing, including all addendums, schedules, salaries, everything else has to be made public.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated just to make sure there is no concern or question, he presented a copy from the IRS’s own website that basically says this form has to be made available to the public, not ‘can’, ‘may’, ‘will’, ‘at the discretion of any individual person’. He stated with that in mind, he pulled out Wonderscope’s forms for 2007 and 2006. He stated the 2008 forms are not yet available online and naturally the 2009 forms will not be filed until next year. He stated the 2008 forms would have been filed this April, unless they filed for an extension.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated there were two things on there that bothered him and he realizes that the contribution to Wonderscope for 2010 is scheduled to be $10,000.

Councilmember Straub stated it is scheduled at $20,000 on the budget.

Mayor Meyers stated it was changed to $10,000.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated Councilmember Pflumm is going to get almost what he wants.

City Manager Gonzales stated she might add that the Council has received that information and also Chairman Tubbesing provided a website that included very detailed budget information, because she is unsure what specifics Mr. Erlichman plans on talking about this evening.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated he has one question of concern. He stated if the Council already has that information that is fine, but has a question that bothers him.

Councilmember Straub stated he did not receive that information and asked if it was sent to all Council people.

City Manager Gonzales stated it was sent in an email with the link to the website that included the Wonderscope budget.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated at then end of 2007, there were net assets of about $165,000. He stated that is what the line says, though he is not an accountant. He stated his concern is with those kinds of assets, the Executive Director was given $60,564 in 2007 and in the 2006 filing that figure was little over $52,000, so that worked out to something like a 15% increase. He stated even though with certain dollars amounts, the $10,000 the City is going to contribute to them, some people might say that is a drop in the bucket on a $76 million budget.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated his concern is if the organization has $160,000+ assets at the end of the year and they can afford to give their Executive Director a 14% increase and he does not know yet what they received as an increase in 2008 or what they are getting in 2009, why do they need the City’s lousy $10,000. He stated the $10,000 that they want to give them would take care of four or five years of snow removal for the elderly. He stated that $10,000 is 20% of what the City just got hit with for the revitalization out there on Monticello Road. He stated that was a $50,000 bill the City was not planning on and here is 20% of that bill. PAGE 34 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

RAY ERLICHMAN stated he knows they do not want to get into nitpicking and micromanaging, but thinks that is one line they can get rid of for $10,000 and put it back towards Monticello, because Wonderscope has enough money and does not need the contribution from the City. He stated it is a nice organization and they probably do a nice job, but do not need the City’s $10,000.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated Councilmember Straub had a pretty good idea a couple weeks ago that he kind of got ‘poo-pooed’ on for it when he said they should get rid of some of that printing and do something on computer templates. He stated most major companies are doing that and he thinks anything that is being printed, any letter or any forms, the staff should take a few minutes, make up a template and place it on the computer and the City could actually save maybe $5,000, $10,000, or $15,000 a year on printing costs and everyone on the Council could have their own letterhead or in the computer Councilmember Pflumm Ward I, Councilmember Sawyer Ward II, etcetera and only there when they needed it and they would not have to have stacks of letterhead or any other forms.

City Manager Gonzales stated she would clarify that the $5,000 of printing is a citywide number and not just the Council.

RAY ERLICHMAN asked if it is citywide letterhead.

City Manager Gonzales stated they do not print letterhead and print it on the computer just like Mr. Erlichman suggested.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated he was under the impression that was letterhead, because if he remembers corrected when City Manager Gonzales was asked that question she said something to the effect that sometimes the Mayor has to send out letters that requires hard copy letterhead.

City Manager Gonzales explained that in the past, they have printed letterhead and still have some in stock they are using up.

RAY ERLICHMAN asked if they are using computerized forms.

City Manager Gonzales answered yes, for the most part. She stated there are other printing needs, i.e. forms, tickets, but that $5,000 is a citywide number and not just for the Council.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated he was basing it just on what City Manager Gonzales said that evening at the budget meeting when she made that comment about the Mayor.

City Manager Gonzales stated she did clarify at that time as well that the $5,000 is a citywide expense.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated he misunderstood on that particular item. He stated he would still like to see someone coordinate with the school district and Triple AAA and thinks in five months they could get that ‘baby’ rolling and not be concerned about it next year and their children will still be safe. He stated he hopes Mr. Lang does not mind him taking some of the thunder out of his comment which is another thing.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated they are certainly learning this evening, in that not every time is everyone going to agree on everything all the time or even disagree on everything all the time. He stated he remembers a time about two and a half years ago when he and Mr. Lang were diametrically opposed on a certain social issue about 2 ½ years ago, so he would like to give him some credit for mentioned that, if he can. PAGE 35 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

PHIL BURROWS, 13589 W. 58th Place, stated he took a couple notes this evening. He stated first off, the average company only spends $250.00 per employee on office supplies per year, so if the City is paying $500.00 per employee, they are way over budget – more than half. He stated he knows this because he owns an office supply company.

PHIL BURROWS stated secondly, he hates the idea of comparing Shawnee to their rich neighbors. He stated he has a rich neighbor who has a nicer house than him and feeds fewer children than him, but he does not set his budget based on how well he is doing and sets his budget based on how much income he has. He stated his income has dropped this year because of the economy. He stated he has to show a lot of respect to the staff if they are holding their incomes steady for the year, but can not believe there are not places to cut 5% of the budget. He stated everyone in this City has cut more than 5% of their budget this year.

PHIL BURROWS stated if they just listen to the news, everyone is saving money, so why can not the government learn to save money.

PHIL BURROWS stated the City is asking elderly people on set incomes to pay more money to have a pool. He stated that does not sound right. He stated they are asking them to pay more money in order to have Old Town; that does not sound right for people who are on fixed incomes and the City is going to take more money from them. He stated there are people who are suffering today because of the economy and the City is going to take more money from them so some kids can go play at the pool. He asked why the pool is not paying for itself.

PHIL BURROWS asked why Shawnee Town is not paying for itself. He asked why the City has a dog license that does not pay for itself. He stated they should let the dog owners pay for that, not someone on a fixed income.

PHIL BURROWS stated he has had to cut his personal and business budget by a much more substantial amount than 5 lousy percent in order to make it through these tough times. He stated the Council is acting like these tough times are going to go on forever. He stated when times get good again, raise the budgets again, but during tough times, they have to cut and raising taxes on middle class people, which is what Shawnee is, this time is atrocious and should not happen and it tells him that this Council is not creative enough, intelligent enough, and does not care enough about their citizens to tighten their belt a little bit and do what is necessary in order to get through this next year that is going to be tough. He stated if this Council can not do that, then they really need to look at resigning, so someone can step in that can.

PHIL BURROWS stated he knows as politicians, citizens are secondary to everything else that they do, but the citizens know what is going on because they are going through rough times and have to look at all their expenses. He stated one of their expenses is government. He stated he can promise the Council that a lot of people in Shawnee are not going to be happy with their elected officials for not being able to help control that expense of theirs. He stated it the old saying, “A pig gets fat, but a hog gets louder”.

Mayor Meyers thanked Mr. Burrows and said he can only tell him that they have made many cuts in the budget and along the lines for the last several years, they have been making cuts on a yearly basis. He stated, as he said before, the City does not have a Mill and Overlay Program and have not had one for two years.

PHIL BURROWS stated that is a service that the City cut.

Mayor Meyers stated that is correct. PAGE 36 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

PHIL BURROWS stated so they are doing less with more.

Mayor Meyers stated it is the same thing in that they have 20 positions that they have not filled this year, so they have reduced their number of employees by 20 people.

PHIL BURROWS asked how much has the budget gone down since 2005.

City Manager Gonzales stated the 2010 budget is about the same as the 2006 budget.

PHIL BURROWS asked how many more employees they have.

City Manager Gonzales stated they have fewer employees today than they did in 2006.

PHIL BURROWS stated the staff is costing them less, yet they are spending the same amount of money.

City Manager Gonzales stated they are spending the same amount of money to provide services with 20 less people.

PHIL BURROWS stated they have cut services.

City Manager Gonzales stated they have cut some services.

PHIL BURROWS stated they are getting less and the City is charging them more.

City Manager Gonzales stated there are more people here to serve. She stated the 2010 budget is $1.3 million less than the 2009 budget.

PHIL BURROWS stated he had more money in 2008 too.

JAMES MASSON, 6500 Mize Road, stated the reason he is against the tax on the utilities, is that the people in western Shawnee are on Westar and have gone through three rate increases this year on their electric bill and there is a fourth one under consideration in Topeka right now, so he does not understand how they are going to be able to stand a fifth increase.

JAMES MASSON stated 25 years ago he put in an all-electric house and has seen all the rules change. He stated the City has never gone up to protect them with the Corporation Commission and they have seen their rates average with Wichita and Wichita’s goes down and Shawnee’s goes up, so there has to be some place other than adding onto the electric bill.

JAMES MASSON stated he has two suggestions as to how the City could make more money and he brought one up several years ago. He stated it is the 1% city tax on car dealers. He stated they pay the tax where they buy the car and the City needs to go to the legislature and ask them to change the law, because now other car dealers are closed and other cities are going to start hurting too. He stated it is only fair that that 1% go back to where the people live. He stated they only have a Ford dealer in Shawnee and quite honestly if he were going to buy a car, and is not a Ford man, he would go to Missouri to buy it, but that system needs to be changed.

JAMES MASSON stated the other thing is that the biggest industry in the City of Shawnee is the Deffenbaugh dump. He stated when someone buys a product they are paying taxes in Detroit or when they buy any manufactured product, they are paying the taxes there. He asked why not charge everyone a fee either by the ton or by the load on that dump. He PAGE 37 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

stated most of that trash comes from Kansas City, Missouri, or St. Joseph, or some place else and Shawnee should be making money out of it.

Mayor Meyers stated they sure wish they could make money out of it.

JAMES MASSON asked why the City can not make money out of it.

Mayor Meyers replied it is privately owned.

JAMES MASSON stated Kansas City, Missouri is sticking everyone out there $5.00 a day on a rental car to pay for stadium improvements.

Mayor Meyers stated they have even had discussions about tipping fees and it has to be voted on at the legislature and of course, the western Kansas cities are not feeling real sorry for the people who live on the east side of the state and they have not been able to do that yet, but have been pursuing it and will continue to pursue trying to receive some money, but they have yet to be successful.

JAMES MASSON stated that does not seem right to him – quite honestly.

Councilmember Sawyer stated that is the same as sales tax on automobiles too.

Mayor Meyers stated that is correct.

JAMES MASSON stated they should look at what has happened over the last few months, in that all these car dealers are going out of business and there is going to be a lot of other cities who are going to be in the same spot as Shawnee.

JAMES MASSON stated he knows they are all going to laugh at his next comment, but as far as he is concerned, they should merge all the cities in Johnson County and they would not have all this competition and they would not need all the lawyers to fight and would save lots of money. He stated they could have one government. He stated as County taxpayers, they all paid for College Boulevard, but yet the Blue Valley School District gets all the revenue out of it and they are sitting out there in DeSoto with the highest school taxes in the state and it is not getting any cheaper.

RODNEY HOUCK, 12807 W. 70th Terrace, stated one word he heard this evening and he heard it very early, and will encourage the Council to really think about and it came from Councilmember Kuhn, the word ‘prudent’. He stated he thinks the Council really needs to be prudent with what they are doing with this budget.

RODNEY HOUCK stated Councilmember Sandifer brought up the response of our public safety department and they need to keep it at that level, so if someone is out blue they get a response in four minutes. He stated his understanding is on an emergency call, a fire engine responds at the same time as an ambulance and whether it is a police car, fire truck, or an ambulance, whoever is there first he understands has the equipment to go to work on the person who is out.

RODNEY HOUCK stated with regard to the franchise tax, he came this evening saying he is really against it and his reason is while it might be $8.00 today in utilities, if their lovely President and his group instigates cap and trade, that $8.00 may be come $24.00 and $30.00. He stated he retired last December and is living to learn on a fixed income. He stated they have cut their household expenses, so that is what scares him about the franchise tax. PAGE 38 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

RODNEY HOUCK stated he went through and everything he is about to show the Council came from the City website, from the list of possible program reductions, and some information from Assistant City Manager Charlesworth. He stated he looked at all those recommendations and came up with his own list. He stated with regard to things like pet licensing, and will not go over all the items, but asked if 233 dogs was all that was being licensed, or something like that, because it was a very small number of dogs licensed.

RODNEY HOUCK referred to Councilmember Kuhn’s suggestion on holiday banners and if they can get some other partnerships. He thinks that is a great idea. He stated the Downtown Partnership is in question.

RODNEY HOUCK stated when he looked at what is available for Neighborhood Planning; it looked like they were going to expand out into another neighborhood, so he did not know if that cost was associated with that neighborhood.

RODNEY HOUCK stated this year is the first time he filed a telephone rebate form and on his telephone expenses he received back $14.00 and is sure a lot of them can do without that and he knows they are eliminating that volunteer program.

RODNEY HOUCK stated he looked at the budget numbers even harder and one of the areas he saw in every budget was a line item for either professional or contractual services. He stated that turned out to be a total of $2.2 million. He stated he just started questioning what those services are, but does not intend to be a micromanager. He questioned what those services are and asked if there is some way to go back and ask the departments to really look at what they are doing in that category and if they could possibly get a 10% reduction in those services.

RODNEY HOUCK stated office furniture has been beat to death tonight, but again, can they deal without some new office furniture and do without some of the repairs – they can reduce those costs.

Mayor Meyers stated he is almost sure he is correct with the statement that they do not have any new office furniture, per se, chairs, tables, or things of that nature that they are purchasing out of that line item.

Councilmember Sawyer said they should tell him what it is.

Mayor Meyers asked Assistant City Manager Charlesworth to explain.

RODNEY HOUCK stated there are some line items in the budget that look like a purchase to new office furniture.

City Manager Gonzales stated they are titled as that and actually the bulk of that $124,000 is the replacement of nine servers for the computer system. She stated as she was telling Councilmember Pflumm, they could have many arguments of what is charged to what line item.

RODNEY HOUCK stated the category is probably wrong.

Councilmember Pflumm stated that should be in Technology.

RODNEY HOUCK stated Councilmember Kuhn brought up the jewel, Shawnee Town, and he is not really familiar with it but through the website, Good Starts Here, he learned all the history about Shawnee Town and how it moved from the Shawnee Historical Society being taken over by the City, but what bothers him about it is that in 2010 they transferred $150,000 from Convention and Tourism. He stated the revenues generated by Shawnee Town in 2008 PAGE 39 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

were less than $100,000, bringing them somewhere close to just under $250,000 of revenue, but they have budgeted expenditures of $520,000.

RODNEY HOUCK stated the gentleman who just spoke earlier this evening talked about his business and what he has had to reduce and his business could not have expenditures over revenue of $277,000. He stated something needs to be looked at for Shawnee Town to bring revenues in line with expenditures.

RODNEY HOUCK stated some of the actions that could be taken, are the fees for admission which are very low for an adult. He asked if they could raise rental fees for Town Hall and what could they do to reduce operation expenses. He asked if they should just close the grounds and just rent out Town Hall. He stated he thinks those are all things that need to be evaluated.

RODNEY HOUCK stated there is also a strategic plan for Shawnee Town that shows in 2010 that there is going to be an expenditure of $502,000 for new buildings. He stated if they really extrapolate that out in terms of insurance and building maintenance costs that means the budget for Old Shawnee Town is even going to go higher, so something is out of balance there and it bothers him.

RODNEY HOUCK stated he came up with this own list of thoughts. He stated he mentioned on the first page ten support programs that could be eliminated, cutting Contractual/Professional Services by 10%, and maybe they can not cut 50% out of Office Furniture because it is really stuff for technology, and reducing the operating costs for Shawnee Town and maybe get close to saving $700,000 or $800,000.

RODNEY HOUCK stated he really thinks the pools need to be kept open and thinks that is an investment in the children, their learning, and maybe they do need to cut the hours somewhat. He stated they need to keep the staffing levels up for the Police and Fire departments. He stated they need to find sources of money for new fire and police equipment and is concerned about the age of the equipment they are running now.

RODNEY HOUCK stated something that they have talked about and was mentioned earlier, are volunteers. He stated he happened to come out of professional employment last December looking for volunteer opportunities. He stated happens to be a youth friend mentor in the Shawnee Mission schools, but keeps watching for other things.

RODNEY HOUCK stated that other than Old Shawnee Town, he could find nowhere on any website opportunities to volunteer in the City of Shawnee and he thinks they need to encourage volunteers and help augment the staff. He stated they are down 20 people, so why not bring in some experienced seniors that could help them out.

Mayor Meyers stated there are others and he believes before Mr. Houck leaves the meeting tonight some people are going to grab his arm.

RODNEY HOUCK stated he was afraid of that. He stated while the Parks brochure is lovely, today most people are using technology and are on the Internet, so they should consider keeping that brochure on the Internet. He stated if there are people who do not have Internet access, they could have places in town where they could pick up a copy when they are out – possibly at the post office.

RODNEY HOUCK stated he really does not think they need to furlough people and need to keep the current City staff. With regard to the crossing guard program, Mr. Houck is concerned about using students for crossing guards – he thinks about places like 67 th and Nieman and 75th and Quivira which are very dangerous intersections and they need some PAGE 40 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

senior people at those locations who are really trained as crossing guards and is not sure how they would go about doing that.

RODNEY HOUCK stated he understands the mill and overlay dilemma and walks every morning on 70th Terrace and could show him places at the curb where he could put his foot down about three feet deep, so there are things that need to be done.

CHARLES GOSLIN, 17428 W. 70th Street, stated this has been an education and sure appreciates all the Council does and all they put up with from everyone. He stated he would like to say one thing for the people who are referring to Shawnee Town as something to cut. He stated he happens to be married to one of the volunteers who work at Shawnee Town and they have to look at that as an educational opportunity, because it is a school and a museum in the round.

CHARLES GOSLIN asked the Council to think very hard about cutting or doing away with Shawnee Town, because that is part of the Good Starts Here program and is one of the really good things about Shawnee. He thanked the Council for all their work.

DAVID MORRIS, 6125 Melrose Lane, thanked the Mayor, Council, and staff for what they do for this City. He stated it is obvious that hard decisions have to be made and hard decisions have been wrestled with and will continue to be wrestled with. He stated as a citizen he appreciates it on his behalf and does not agree with all of it and no one ever will, but he certainly appreciates the Council’s efforts and it sounds like there are still some good ideas out there that need to be explored.

DAVID MORRIS stated he is not sure that tonight, as he hears it, that they can still vote on this because it sounds like there are more issues out there that need to be explored to really refine this and has some concerns about the franchise tax for a couple of reasons. He stated he just heard this evening that the Federal government is considering raising tax on pop. He asked when taxes are going to stop.

DAVID MORRIS stated as a small business owner he is taxed to death and is one of those rich people that the Federal government considers “rich” because he is self employed, but he is the company, so if his company makes $250,000 or more he is taxed personally. He stated he does not make that much and does not know many small business owners who do, but they are considered rich and are taxed higher.

DAVID MORRIS stated the other real concern he has is that a franchise tax affects the fixed income population the most. He stated as many of them know, he is the Co-President of Rebuilding Together Shawnee, which helps low income elderly and military families repair their homes. He stated one of the major reasons that they go out and repair, rebuild, and help mostly fixed income people who are handicapped and on Medicaid or Medicare, really the reason why these homes are being neglected, is because that is one of the first areas that these people let go is to be able to afford food and all the other things they need to do [to get by].

DAVID MORRIS stated if there is a franchise tax that gets voted on, he would hope there is a consideration for people of fixed income that can be reduced or exempt out of, or whatever, because unlike him, he is blessed and can make more money, work harder, and be more creative and find ways to do things cheaper, more expensive, more efficiently, or whatever the case to make more money. He stated the people on a fixed income can not and it is must more and more of a burden on them. He stated through all the all indications he has heard with the cap and trade, is that there will be higher utility bills.

DAVID MORRIS stated most of those who know him, know he does not like being negative all the time and tries to be positive. He stated he thinks also that one of Shawnee’s assets is PAGE 41 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

its community. He stated one of the things he has found as being part of that community and being involved in Rebuilding Together Shawnee, is quite frankly, there are a ton of people out there who want to get involved and just had another example of that this evening.

DAVID MORRIS stated he thinks it is their responsibility, as citizens, to be involved. He stated he will speak for himself and thinks lots of time, he, or [we], get lazy and do not give back to their community and they are not being responsible in doing things they can do to help their whole community be more efficient.

DAVID MORRIS stated he would encourage the City to look at starting, what he calls, the Shawnee Service Corps, to be a public/private organization. He stated it could be started and worked with Rebuilding Shawnee Tomorrow leadership. He stated a lot of people have gone through that program to develop leadership, but that would help.

10:07 p.m. – Councilmember Sandifer left the Council chambers.

DAVID MORRIS gave an example, in that maybe the Shawnee Business Association could adopt the Indian Cemetery and keep track of it and care for it. He stated there are all sorts of opportunities for citizens to get involved and help out this community in numerous ways to save money.

DAVID MORRIS stated he would also suggest, and knows that the City already does this, but they could look into the colleges and universities with internship programs in areas where the City lacks manpower and could possibly supplement with internships. He stated he uses interns in his business all the time and it is a great opportunity for college students who want to get interested in government or some part of government, to get hands-on experience and learn a lot of things as they are going through college.

DAVID MORRIS also suggested that they, as citizens, think about the fact that they can not have everything all the time and there will be times where they need to expect less service and do things on their own and be more self-sufficient and not rely on their government all the time for everything. He gave himself as an example. He stated down the street because of the real estate market, and is sure it is the same way in many neighborhoods where some of the real estate people have not taken care of the grass and let it grow high which, in turn, reflects badly on the neighborhood, the City does have a service where a person can call in and complain to get something done about it.

DAVID MORRIS stated he has, in the past with neighbors, cut some of those places on his own and it did not cost the City anything and did not cost him much. He stated those are the types of things the citizens in this community can do themselves and sometimes he thinks they need permission from the City so they do not feel like they are going to get in trouble by doing those things, so he thinks that is where the Shawnee Service Corps could help out. He stated those are his comments and he appreciates the Council’s time.

10:09 p.m. – Councilmember Sandifer returned to the Council chambers.

Councilmember Kuhn stated obviously she and Mr. Morris have a relationship outside of this, having graduated that leadership class together. She stated when she used his name during some of the conversation, she would apologize to him that during this discussion she never reiterated their conversation that if and when the discussion of franchise fees, particularly which they will not be able to have until August and knows it is very confusing sometimes, tonight’s discussion is purely about what the published budget is and what they will accept as their maximum amount.

Councilmember Kuhn continued that next month, they will have a specific budget discussion about whether or not they are going to have to cut that back more than they even said or PAGE 42 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

whether they are going to implement a revenue source. She stated tonight she has heard a number of people talk about other alternatives than franchise and she would love to explore something that people are interested in to help that revenue source, but wanted to reiterate when that discussion comes up and it was not part of tonight’s discussion just because that was not the focus of her discussion, her intention always is that if they move forward with franchise, she would always support that, with the caveat, and thinks she has spoken to a number of people about that, that there would be very similar to their utility tax currently a rebate program attached to it that would have an income structure.

Councilmember Kuhn stated one of the phrases she does not like is ‘fixed income’, because she and her husband both received a freeze on their income this year, so it should be fixed as well and she does not deserve a rebate on her franchise tax, but equivalent to, for example, the HUD standards on when someone would need with additional service; what they use currently on their other programs and she would have every expectation that such a thing would be in place. She stated she would even go so far of finding a way if staff could look at implementing at a later time something specific for a hardship time and it has been brought up to the Council a number of times there are things that are unexpected and crazy and if that could be done, but most importantly that that caveat had always been an intention from herself, and she would expect most of the Council had, as part of the franchise tax, assuming that is what went forward in August.

DAVID MORRIS stated there has been some great ideas brought up this evening and are things he does not believe are yet resolved within the budget. He asked that the Council continue to look at those things and he is guessing there is a timeframe where they have to pull the trigger on it.

Councilmember Kuhn stated that would be tonight, so that is why when she made her opening statement, the recommendation she has is for that budget number. She stated it keeps coming up this evening that the conversation was, for example, Councilmember Straub’s answer that his kids gets $40.00 allowance and spend differently, but she thinks it has been seen over the past number of years that the staff’s budget has been set at “X” amount and every year they come back for a revised budget and it is less than what their expected budget was, so that is the same thing she would expect to be true this year.

Councilmember Kuhn stated they set the budget on reasonable expectations for running the city and what they do in those years where they just do not know what is going to happen or what emergencies will occur and they do everything within their power, and thinks staff has done that for years, to come in under those numbers and be as efficient as possible.

DAVID MORRIS stated another concern for him is that one of the key thing why this budget is what it is, is because Shawnee does not have the tax base – the commercial base that they really need to offset what the residents have to pick up. He stated he would in no way cut the EDC budget and would try to find ways to solicit more business and be more aggressive with incentives for businesses to come into this town.

DAVID MORRIS stated he has heard many times the Council has been concerned about the incentives [they] are getting and he most hates comparing Shawnee to Lenexa.

Councilmember Kuhn interjected that she most hates comparing Shawnee to Lenexa.

DAVID MORRIS stated if they go down the road, what they see when they go south on I-435 is a much bigger commercial/office space base and there is a reason for that. He stated he will not presume to know the reason, but thinks they have to be more aggressive in getting those things in because that is where the City’s tax base needs to come from, rather than from a franchise fee. He thanked the Council for their time. PAGE 43 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

CHARLIE VOGT, 13907 W. 72nd Court, stated he is speaking on behalf of himself and would like to address simply what the Council has been discussing as far as the franchise fees and the possibility of an increase. He stated he knows that every good city manager looks at options, whether they are cuts or new sources of revenue. He stated he knows a lot of people have talked about cuts.

CHARLIE VOGT stated he personally likes what City Manager Gonzales did, as far as coming up with three different scenarios to look at and decide which way they want to go and prepare the public for a recession like this where they can discuss those scenarios and see whether or not they are worthwhile or not and come up with new suggestions and ideas as they have this evening.

CHARLIE VOGT stated he would really rather speak on the revenue side for a minute, because when they look at city with increasing revenues, they look at very few options. He stated usually it is property tax or some kind of user fee. He stated they have referred to the franchise fee as a tax tonight and he would like to clarify, for one, what exactly a franchise fee actually is and secondly, explain the Fairness Doctrine that he thinks is important when they look at franchise fee.

CHARLIE VOGT stated he will first start with what exactly a franchise fee is, and many of the people may know this or not, but the National League of Cities in many cities all around the country have had a franchise fee to allow utilities to go on their right-of-ways and put the wires, poles, and infrastructure in those right-of-ways. He stated they pay a fee to the city to allow them to use those public right-of-ways.

CHARLIE VOGT stated presently Shawnee is not charging some of these utilities a fee. He stated they are pretty much just allowing them a different type of consideration. He stated he believes City Manager Gonzales made a presentation in April on franchise fees and is sure many of those present tonight were at that meeting and had a chance to listen. He stated he thought it was interesting to see the comparisons.

CHARLIE VOGT stated first of all, on fees the City is currently charging, there are only two commercial properties with two exceptions on Residential. He stated on the commercial, it is 5% for Kansas City Power and Light and Western Resources 5%. He stated with Amos Energy Gas it is 3% and the Kansas Gas Service at 3%. He stated AT&T is 5% and the Kansas City cable partners, he imagines is Time Warner and Everest, is at 5%. He stated there is no consistency there, because they are at 3% in one place and 5% in the other.

CHARLIE VOGT stated with Residential it is even more awkward, because some people have said they do not want to pay a franchise tax, but believe it or not they are paying a franchise fee right now. He stated they are paying it to AT&T, Kansas Cable Partners, and Everest at 5%. He stated there is again inconsistency when it comes to charging a franchise fee.

CHARLIE VOGT stated if there is anything out of this whole exercise that they could look at, it is some kind of consistency in how they are assessing franchise fees. He stated that has already been addressed by Mr. Morris, as far as a concern about how it impacts people.

CHARLIE VOGT stated obviously no one wants to see a new tax or a new fee on anyone in this economy, so they are looking at other alternative ways to handle the deficit situation they have been looking at, as well as ways to increase revenues to not only deal with this year’s deficit, but two or three more years of deficit.

CHARLIE VOGT stated in summary, if they are looking at the franchise fee that they are charging utilities to use their right-of-ways, they should be consistent and if it is going to be PAGE 44 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

consistent just on the business community like it is now, they should be consistent on their percentage. He asked if they are going to be 3% or 5%.

CHARLIE VOGT stated for those people in the audience this evening who do not think they are paying a franchise fee for utilities for gas and electric, they should think twice because a business is paying that in Shawnee right now and the business is passing that on to the consumer. He stated if a person is not getting the bill in their own house, they are getting the bill when they pay for the product at the store.

CHARLIE VOGT stated he is a business person and knows what it is like to pass on fees to people that he is asked to pay by the City. He stated whether they disguise it as a fee that is passed on by a business, or a fee that is sent to an individual, it is still there.

CHARLIE VOGT stated if they go to the Residential side, he has some recommendations, one being what Mr. Morris had mentioned. He stated if there is a low income provision where they could go for a rebate for those who qualify for low income or some kind of subsidy or hardship case, they should definitely consider that and they should also be consistent on their rates. He stated if they are going to be 3%, then go across the board. He stated if they are going to be 5%, go across the board. He stated they should not give advantage to a gas company versus a telephone company.

CHARLIE VOGT asked if there is such a thing as phasing in a franchise fee. He asked if it has to be 5% or could they do a combination of Councilmember Straub and Councilmember Pflumm coming up with more cuts with maybe a slight smaller property tax increase, but a 3% across the board franchise fee and what will that give the City as opposed to 5% across the board, just because they are impacting individuals now as opposed to just corporations.

CHARLIE VOGT stated lastly, they can not put a sunset on this, but he knows in the past the County came up with a sunset provision, for instance, on a sales tax. He stated he was a five year sales tax or a three or five year sales tax provision. He stated they said over a period of time they could look at it again to see if it was really worth while.

CHARLIE VOGT stated as they all know, the economic development sales tax was assessed and the County went towards school relief. He stated they had three or four years of school relief which helped all the public schools in the County. He asked if they could look at something like this that is phased in and asked if it has to be started at 5% or could they look at 3% for the first five years and 5% for the next five years.

CHARLIE VOGT stated he supposes the bottom line is that no one wants to pay new taxes. He stated no one wants to pay new fees, but since 1942, cities have gone away from reliance on property tax because it used to be an average of 80% on all the revenues collected by a city. He stated today it is more around 50% of property tax.

CHARLIE VOGT stated on user fees, such as a franchise fee, it has gone from in 1942 at 8% to over 25%. He stated what is happening is when the government looks at tough times and trying to do things, they look at raising fees rather than raising taxes and they have gotten less reliant on property tax and more reliant on pay-as-you-go or taxing the beneficiary of services out there that are capable of paying.

CHARLIE VOGT stated all he is saying is in the franchise fee basis, there are many who are capable of paying and many are not. He stated the Council needs to discriminate between the two. He thanked the Council for their time.

TOM ZARDA, 6770 Mize Road, stated as it has been mentioned before this evening, the Council should all be congratulated on performing their duties as they do and taking seriously the jobs they have as Mayor and City Council people, as they do an excellent job. He stated PAGE 45 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

it has been proven this evening that they all have a serious interest in what they are doing and they may not always agree and that is how it probably should be, but at least they are doing, in his estimation, what they feel is best for the City of Shawnee.

TOM ZARDA stated this budget time is probably the most trying time for them all and he can understand. He stated he has reviewed a lot of material and will try to be brief. He stated he thinks most all of them have the same material and maybe he has some things that some of them do not. He stated he has reviewed this material and used it to come to the conclusions that he is going to recommend to the Council.

TOM ZARDA stated he would start out with the reductions that have already been implemented. He stated these are reductions that are already done. He stated they suspended the citywide street maintenance program and are currently operating with 20 vacant positions. He stated they have reduced the individual traveling expenses. He stated they have done a lot of that and maybe more can be done.

TOM ZARDA stated they have implemented pay-as-you-go policies and decreased activity and now have reduced maintenance and the staffing. He stated they have not purchased any vehicles or replaced any public safety vehicles, such as police cars. He stated they have suspended the crime prevention programs.

TOM ZARDA stated the budget in 2006 and the budget actually proposed for 2010 is about $150,000 less than that. He stated when they look at their neighboring cities, and someone said not to worry about their neighbors worry about [us], well that is okay, but they have to have something to compare to – are they good or are they bad.

TOM ZARDA stated they compare themselves to Lenexa and Olathe and Shawnee’s budget was $71 million last year and $109 million for Lenexa and $260 million for Olathe. He stated Olathe has twice the population, but three times the budget and the same thing in expenditures per capita. He stated it is all the same thing and there are expenditures per square mile and employees per square mile and Shawnee comes out better than all their neighbors. He stated they can look at those numbers and think they are doing a pretty good job and he thinks they are doing a good job.

TOM ZARDA stated he thinks the staff and the councilmembers have to be commended for keeping those things in as line as much as they have. He stated they also have to look at the three things that they looked at here which amount to two-thirds of the budget. He stated one thing is the Fire Department. He stated they have a great Fire Department and their response time is great. He stated they have built a new fire station and have all of these things, but when they listen to their words, future challenges of deferring the additional firefighters, further delays are planned to complete two full crews at Station No. 71 and addressing the increased maintenance issue on their aging fleet of fire apparatus. Continue to keep acceptable, just acceptable, the response times in the northwest – 7 Highway and 55th Street. He stated those are things where they came right out and said those are major concerns.

TOM ZARDA stated when they look at the fire station their budget is less by about $20,000+, so they are cutting. He stated when they look at the Shawnee Police Department, everyone looks at their community and they are a safe community, and their Police Department needs to be commended because they have less crime and have less fees and less DUIs in the City of Shawnee. He stated he thinks most of that is because of the appearance and quality of their Police Department. He stated they keep those things in check because the people know they are going to be around and are going to be caught. He stated that is the quality of the Police Department here in Shawnee. PAGE 46 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

TOM ZARDA stated if they have a burglary in a home, the people in this city want to have the best people come by their house and want them to be professional, trained, and want them to be true to what they are doing. He stated the Police Department has to be commended and they talk about their budget. He stated their budget is something like $300,000 less this year than last year.

TOM ZARDA stated when it comes to the Public Works Department the City had a growth in lane miles – a fast growth five years in a row. He stated now they have had five years of just a little growth, but the asphalt mill overlay program is off 42% is the last two years – the amount of expenditures for that program, the City’s. He stated the pavement index rating is off 30% in the last two years. He stated their streets are 30% worse today than they were two years ago.

TOM ZARDA stated when they look at all those things they have to come to some kind of conclusion. He stated as the Council makes all these decisions they have to look at how they analyze what they do and their recommendations.

TOM ZARDA stated he came up with three ways when he went through all of this and looked at all of those things. He stated when he looked at this budget and at the budget that was on the email he received today, they have to determine if it can be cut, or is it a mandatory expense. He stated secondly, they have to look at should it be cut. He stated thirdly, they have to look at what long term affect it will have on the citizens of the Shawnee and the services to the citizens. He stated they have to determine if they cut the budget now and defer that work, will it cost them much more later on.

TOM ZARDA stated they also have to determine if it will add an effect on property values and the possibility of less sales tax revenues. He stated as the Council looks at each of those items, he thinks they need to consider those five items as they look at cuts in the budget.

TOM ZARDA stated he received the email and supposes they are talking about the website he received today. He stated he was under the impression that was from Councilmember Pflumm, Councilmember Straub, and Councilmember Goode who put that thing together and sees tonight that Councilmember Straub had a different recommendation, but they were close.

TOM ZARDA stated he looked at the email and as they go through that budget and see the different cuts, with regard to Educational Expenses and Dues and Subscriptions, it shows a tremendous reduction in cost of those two items. He stated if they take those two things and cut them down to almost 40%, then yes, some reduction needs to be made. He stated he thinks they have to belong to the Kansas League of Cities and to the National league, but maybe they do not have to go to as many conferences and can do some of that on email. He stated they can go to those things, but maybe not do as many drastic cuts as they show.

TOM ZARDA stated with regard to printing expense, the City had a $20,500 printing expense completely eliminated. He stated he can hardly imagine there is a $20,000 expenditure that no good came out of it and can completely eliminate that expenditure. He stated salary decreases and it is awfully commendable to take $9,000, which he believes is 10%, out of their own pockets.

TOM ZARDA stated if they look at the Transportation and Reception and Education budgets, there is a reduction there of $200,000. He stated that is one he brought up earlier and asked if that can be reduced, or cut, or is some of it mandatory. He stated from a lot of the detail he found out about, a lot of that goes to educating the Police Department and Fire Department, as well as the engineers and staff of this city and some of that is mandatory. He stated it is mandatory that they send their Police Department and Fire Department to these schools. He PAGE 47 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

asked how much of that can be cut and then how much should be cut. He stated those are things the Council needs to look at and believes a lot of it can not be cut.

TOM ZARDA stated they have talked enough about Office Furniture and about Postage. He asked if Postage can be cut and answered, probably so. He stated the big thing is the Land Improvement budget. He stated there is a total of $350,000 eliminated and that can not be done.

Councilmember Straub stated it did not exist in 2007, so that is why he thinks they are saying if it did not exist then, then why now.

TOM ZARDA stated if it is for fixing the cracks and the asphalt . . .

Councilmember Straub interjected that is what he asked for and did not get those numbers.

TOM ZARDA stated they can not just eliminate it, so if they are just fixing those cracks and have to do overlay . . .

Councilmember Straub stated he agrees and thinks they should bring back mill and overlay and have to find cuts some place else.

TOM ZARDA stated his point is that there is a lot of good that came out of this meeting tonight and he is impressed with the remarks that were made by all the citizens who came up and spoke, as well as the Council’s concerns and some of their ideas, but if they look at the 2010 budget and the 2011 and 2012 budget, they really have to look at that now even though they cannot take any action on it. He stated if they are $800,000 short now and are going to be $1 million short next year and $2.4 million short the year after that, they are going to have to address it sooner or later.

TOM ZARDA stated his recommendation to the Council this evening is to implement the franchise tax. He stated he lives in Shawnee, has kids that live in Shawnee, does business in Shawnee, and has real estate development that is not doing worth a darn right now, but yet taxes are a way of life. He stated taxes are how they fund public services and he says implement the franchise tax now, approve the budget, and take all the information, comments, and suggestions that they have and start working on those so they do not have to do a property tax increase next year and another property tax increase a year after that.

TOM ZARDA stated the Council needs to take their time and cut the items that can be cut and should be cut, that do not affect the citizen services and do not affect property values or sales taxes. He thanked the Council for their time.

Councilmember Straub stated Mr. Zarda was here two years ago as well in favor of the mill levy increase.

TOM ZARDA stated he was at the time and had in his remarks that they probably should have done the franchise tax at that time.

Councilmember Straub asked if he has ever been here where he ever said they should not raise the taxes.

TOM ZARDA answered yes. He stated he thinks it is important for the City of Shawnee and for the Council to take the five questions . . .

Councilmember Straub stated he agrees and none of these hit services. He asked for a short 10 minute break. PAGE 48 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

The meeting recessed at 10:34 p.m.

The meeting reconvened at 10:42 p.m.

SHANE CRAMER, 6802 Gladstone, stated his son-in-law, after 23 years with Ford, lost his job last January, so if he is not that much in sympathy with someone having to be cut, please excuse him. He stated he noticed with the 2009 budget, they had to adjust it up, so he asked if they do not cut this budget now, it is going to go up anyway just like that one did.

City Manager Gonzales stated for clarification, the 2009 budget had to be adjusted because there was cash carryover from 2008 and projects that had not been completed, so that is why those numbers had to be adjusted.

SHANE CRAMER stated he noticed the first number was five and it was six on the other one.

City Manager Gonzales stated it did show an increase and was from cash in 2008.

SHANE CRAMER stated he agrees that they should trash the travel budget, unless it is really necessary. He stated when he worked with AT&T many years ago, there were a lot of people there who did their travel just for boondoggles or to do their frequent flyer miles so they could go to Hawaii for free every year. He stated when they worked for Sprint, they used to go down to Dallas every month, but when times got hard they found out they were the 3G telephone company and had all this technology and could email all the information and do either a conference call or teleconferencing and if they had any drawings they could Fed Ex them. He stated they got by doing their meetings without having to do the travel expense.

SHANE CRAMER stated as far as the taxes go, whether they call them taxes, franchise fees, or whatever, he finally got old enough to retire just to watch all the taxes go up and now they are talking about putting an extra tax on his gas and electric. He stated he wishes he would have brought his tax bill this evening, because he asked his wife about it because it said $30.00, but the cost of gas was less than $10.00. He stated the rest of that stuff is fees, taxes, etc. He stated they even hedge against the gas and charge him for all of that. He stated if they put a fee on that, he will just have to pay it, the same with the electric.

SHANE CRAMER stated electric is going to go up, so they might as well mark it down. He stated they already have that Chicago Board of Carbon Tax Trade, so they are already trading those and people can buy carbon tax just like options or anything else.

SHANE CRAMER stated his next concern is Deffenbaugh. He stated they would like to have a monopoly and it is not ‘him’ anymore, but a corporation when you call down there. He stated they were in his neighborhood and they used them for years, but they have this big ole truck that has three axles in the back of it and his little neighborhood does not have any curbs or gutters, in fact they can not get down the street unless they almost stop their car and let the other guy down. He stated they turn the corners and crumbled all up their new asphalt they had placed a couple of years ago.

SHANE CRAMER stated the problem he had with Deffenbaugh is they would pull up and back that big truck clear down the streets about two blocks and clear back up the hill to the other side and then come back down and the cars could not get down the street, but the trucks could run over something serious like a dog or a kid. He stated he asked them if that was their policy to back that big truck with the beeping all that distance, but they would not listen, so he went to Superior and talked to a nice lady on the phone instead of this ‘press 1 for English’ stuff someone gets with Deffenbaugh now and he saved money – more than $100.00 a year and they give a senior discount. PAGE 49 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

SHANE CRAMER stated the point is if the City goes to one carrier, the people are not going to have the option to go ‘here or there’ and they are all going to be back in the Deffenbaugh camp again and they will have a monopoly and the City will have to put up with al their nonsense.

SHANE CRAMER stated if the Council thinks they must travel to Wichita or wherever, why not have those folks come to Shawnee because there are a couple motels right down the street from him who would love their business and bring more revenue into the City that way. He stated one thing they did at AT&T was to have one person go get the training and come back and train everyone else instead of shipping everyone off to the same place. He thanked the Council for their time.

LES PALMER, President of the Friends of Shawnee, Prairie Village, stated he is here this evening to seek the Council’s support for continued funding of Shawnee Town. He stated he has been a volunteer at Shawnee Town since 1974 and he has put many hours into that facility. He stated in going to the visitation of Gene Amos this evening reminds him that Shawnee Town would not have been there had it not been from the contributions that Gene made to the Shawnee Historical Society.

LES PALMER stated what he wants the Council to take into consideration, is that Shawnee Town is their community – their home for many citizens. He stated it is a gathering place and over 100,000 people annually come through Shawnee Town. He stated since he has volunteered since 1974, he has actually talked to people who came there as children and now they are bringing their children back to enjoy the Town.

LES PALMER stated there are many civic organizations that have fundraising events at Shawnee Days and some at the craft fair. He stated those dollars they raise help them fund their community projects in Shawnee. He stated there have been over 4,000 volunteer hours at Shawnee Town in the last year. He stated there is plenty of room for more volunteer time.

LES PALMER stated Shawnee Town is a tourist attraction in Shawnee and they are on the verge and have a vision that it will even become a greater tourist attraction. He stated when Shawnee Town 1929 is complete it will be a very unique site in the metropolitan area of Kansas City and will attract more people and bring more people into Shawnee that will spend their tourist dollars.

LES PALMER stated he is excited about the prospects of Shawnee Town and he asked the Council to strongly consider the continued funding of Shawnee Town. He thanked the Council.

MIKE EGAN, 21705 W. 58th Street, stated one year ago he stood before the Council and asked that they cut the budget and instead of including a tax that had not passed yet in Johnson County, cut the budget and if the tax passed, come back and take a look at the budget again. He stated the Council was a lot smarter than him and predicted the tax would pass and they were right and he was wrong.

MIKE EGAN stated he asked the Council at that time to hire five more police officers and four more firefighters, because they were then and are today short five police officers and four firefighters. He asked for no more expensive trips to Washington for the Mayor, Council President, and Councilmembers, because he did not need to see Shawnee Ray, Councilmember Straub, and Councilmember Pflumm play Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner in D.C.

MIKE EGAN stated he even offered to Mayor Meyers after the meeting to fly their two senators and their congressman to Shawnee, instead of all of them flying out there and they would have a nice dinner together with the City Manager and the City Council. He stated that PAGE 50 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

offer still stands and they do not have to fly to Washington D.C. or need to have expensive dinners or stay in expensive hotels. He stated they will come here and meet with [us] and he will even buy dinner for all of them. He stated that offer stands today.

MIKE EGAN stated he asked Mayor Meyers that an audit be done on the City of Shawnee for best practices so they could find needed cost savings and asked that audit to be done by a non-Johnson County or non-Kansas City area CPA firm licensed to practice in the State of Kansas. He stated the Mayor asked him at that time how much he thought that would cost and he said he thought it could be done for $50,000 and thinks the Mayor said they would have trouble finding that in the budget.

MIKE EGAN stated instead Mayor Meyers commissioned a study of Monticello Road between Shawnee Mission Parkway and Johnson Drive for $166,000. He stated the study produced remarkable results. The study said there is a lot of traffic, about 2,500 people a day, in the five schools that are less than a mile from his house – 2 hours a day in the morning and 2 hours a day in the evening - what remarkable results. He stated that he and Mayor Meyers could have sat there in the morning for two hours with a quart of Bloody Mary’s and two lawn chairs and done that for less than $166,000.

MIKE EGAN continued that they could have come back in the afternoon with a quart of gin and tonics, two lawn chairs, and done it for less than $166,000 and today as he speaks, they are still five police officers short and still four firefighters short.

MIKE EGAN stated they had a 17% increase in taxes two years ago, the largest tax increase in Shawnee he is told and has only lived here 10 years. He stated they had a tax increase in 2008 and 2009 from the County sales tax and now they are proposing another tax increase. He stated his friend Charlie Vogt says it is not a tax increase, but a fee increase and that is the same friendly banker who will have a measured increase in his deposits in his bank when the City starts collecting more revenue, so they need to figure out what those motivations are with his friend, Charlie, and he truly is his friend.

MIKE EGAN stated he is asking Mayor Meyers to table this budget this evening. He stated he is asking the Council to go into their contingency funds, hire a CPA firm for $50,000 or less, and come up with cost savings to the City of Shawnee with no tax increase. He stated as a measure of good faith, just like he offered to fly in their senators and congressmen to pay for dinner for the Council, he will pay the first $1,000 of the $50,000 to do that audit, because he thinks it will produce more cost savings than what anyone showed on that board tonight. He stated he is convinced of it.

MIKE EGAN stated he can not think of a budget in his 28 years of selling on the road and his 10 years of retail business prior to that that they could not find 10% in and he is not talking about police officers and firefighters. He stated as a matter of fact his comments specifically exclude police officers and firefighters, because he believe, Councilmember Sandifer, that they are Job #1 in this City. He stated his wife needs the police to show up when he is out of town and someone is breaking down the door, like they did today and caught the burglar. He stated they need police officers on the street, so that lady who was accosted a week ago and the Police Department caught does not get accosted in the first place and they will get that with more officers on the street and not with doing things that are not needed, comparatively speaking, to Police and Fire.

MIKE EGAN stated again, he will pay the first $1,000 of that audit Mayor Meyers if he will authorize it.

MIKE EGAN stated he wants to address some specific comments. He stated Mayor Meyers made specific comments about not interrupting basic services with budget cuts and he could not agree more. He stated they need to hire five police officers, four firefighters, and cut the PAGE 51 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

budget elsewhere, because those are the basic services that they need in the City of Shawnee.

MIKE EGAN stated Councilmember Kuhn made the statement, “It’s always cheaper to buy than lease”. He asked Councilmember Kuhn if she knew that the City lease purchase their fire trucks and he was shocked and never heard of that until two weeks ago when they sat with City Manager Gonzales and Finance Director Kidney. He stated he heard in that conversation, that the City has a 30% budget contingency carryover. He asked City Manager Gonzales to correct him if he is wrong, because he is shocked.

City Manager Gonzales clarified that 30% is their goal.

MIKE EGAN stated if he carried over 30% in his budget, his boss would fire him and he would have a 100% decrease in his income. He stated he has never heard of a budget like that.

MIKE EGAN stated Mayor Meyers talks about not micromanaging and he agrees. He stated he will ask the Council not to approve a budget that exceeds revenue projections with no tax increase, send it back to the staff and let them, the professionals, determine where it needs to be cut, because he can guarantee them they can find cuts.

MIKE EGAN addressed Councilmember Sandifer and said he has been a volunteer fireman and has done CPR on women, kids, and infants and he understands what he is talking about with response times and agrees with it. He stated that is why the City needs to hire four more firefighters and five more police officers and cut the budget in other places.

MIKE EGAN stated Councilmember Kuhn talked about teleconferencing. He stated he works for a company in LA that has 18 factories in China. He stated they do not jump on an airplane and go touring China and teleconference every single day with those factories in China. He stated they can teleconference all the educational materials they want to do. He stated technology has never been better in his lifetime than it is today. He stated he will give one example. He stated in 1981 when he started on the road, he had two file cabinets, eight drawers full of paper. He stated today he manages a business that is 20 times greater today than it was in 1981 and has less than one-half of a file cabinet drawer, so they do not need paper to run a city and that means they do not need to print, do not need to have furniture, and do not need to have a lot of postage stamps and that is just the plain truth.

MIKE EGAN stated he does not even know what his postage budget is today, but can tell the Council that it is miniscule compared to what it was 20 years ago because he did not own a computer 20 years ago.

MIKE EGAN stated that is all he has this evening and hopes the Council takes his comments seriously. He stated he is willing to put his money where his mouth is and he will fly those senators and congressmen here to Shawnee and buy them all dinner and see if they can extract some more money out of them, because he is paying a hell of a lot of Federal income taxes to the government and he would like to see the City extract some more money out of them and balance the City’s budget with that.

MIKE EGAN stated he is also willing to put his money where his mouth is and finance the first $1,000 of an audit done on this City. He stated he will call on his friend, Tom Zarda, and will ask him for a grand too.

Mayor Meyers stated he appreciates Mr. Egan’s comments and does take them seriously. He stated he would like to know Mr. Egan’s thoughts of how he feels about a mill and overlay program. PAGE 52 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

MIKE EGAN stated he is not going to micromanage the City’s budget. He stated he has two priorities in his life, as far as City government is concerned. He stated he wants the Police to show up when he calls them and wants the Fire Department to show up. He stated everything else to him is a luxury. He stated he has lived on gravel roads and on great roads and can live with either one of them. He stated he much prefers to live on West 58 th Street in Shawnee with a paved street than a gravel road, but if it means having five less police officers and four less firefighters, which is what they have right now, something has to give.

MIKE EGAN continued that if that means not funding Old Shawnee Town or not funding Wonderscope, put the firefighters to work and the police officers to work and he said this a year ago and is not new news to Mayor Meyers, because he talked to the Mayor about it after the meeting.

Mayor Meyers stated he would love to have those additional firefighters and those additional officers, but that is not just a small amount of money, but a great deal of money. He stated they are looking at a budget where they are trying to make some major cuts and some of the things he has gone over, he has said are unacceptable cuts that he does not think they can make. He stated he does not think they can cut the crack/seal program or cut the bridge repair program. He stated they do not have a Mill and Overlay Program and thinks they have to have those things.

Mayor Meyers stated he thinks they have to have an adequate number of employees in this City government to effectively provide the services that people expect in this community. He stated he thinks they are doing as good as job as possible and he is not sure of the exact number, but it is in the neighborhood of 270 employees for a population of over 60,000. He stated to try to find that in other communities near or far, would be pretty difficult – a city of Shawnee’s numbers with this kind of efficiency.

MIKE EGAN stated he did not want to go there, but if Mayor Meyers wants an answer, he will get specific. He stated his wife works for the largest privately held commercial and residential alarm business in the Kansas City area. He stated they have laid people off this year and she took a 12% pay cut. He stated in 2001 and 2002, a road salesman, him, on the road took a 40% pay cut in that timeframe.

MIKE EGAN stated he has a friend who owns a construction company here in town and the Council probably knows him. He stated his employees took a 15% pay cut earlier this year and he took a pay cut that was a lot larger than 15%. He stated he is convinced that the City can have a budget with their professionals that are running this city that does not raise taxes, hires five police officers, four firefighters, and make those numbers work. He stated he will leave it to the professionals to do it, but he is here to tell the Council that there is people in this room who have taken anywhere from a 12% to in his case a 40% pay cut in a given time period.

MIKE EGAN stated when he left town in those eras, if they want to talk about bologna and cheese sandwiches, he went out of town with sandwiches in his cooler, but there was any bologna on them. He stated he has been there and done that and they can all do that in this room tonight if Mayor Meyers and this Council has the courage to do so.

Mayor Meyers stated his response to that statement is that the City is not a for profit business and their job is to look at services they are providing for their residents and do the very best job possible. He stated if there is Council agreement that they need to get rid of a program or something is not as efficient as it should be, that is their jobs.

Mayor Meyers stated he thinks it is very important in providing these services that they can not get to a point where they are putting themselves in a hole that they can not catch up with. PAGE 53 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

He stated that mill and overlay situation is just one thing that he is extremely concerned about and personally thinks it is unacceptable.

Mayor Meyers stated they have discussed audits here in the Council. He stated they have had Councilmember Straub even make suggestions of doing an audit. He stated it has never been voted on by the Council or been thought of as an item they felt was important enough for them to do.

MIKE EGAN stated there is a CPA firm, he believes it is Anderson and Anderson, who are located in Oklahoma and do model budgets for the State of Texas, State of Oklahoma, and did one for Kansas this year. He stated they are currently working with Sedgwick County on a model budget. He stated these people are experts and can come in and are not affiliated with Johnson County, so there is no political overtones whatsoever and are licensed to practice in the State of Kansas.

MIKE EGAN stated he has never seen a budget that he could not find 10% in. He stated that may be presumptuous on his part with this city, because this city may be so well managed that there is not 10%, but if there was 2% of $70 million, they do not raise taxes – just 2%. He stated he is willing to be in there for the first grand.

Councilmember Straub stated that was his question on a private audit that they have talked about. He stated he came up with these things. He stated he has said several times that he is not an accountant or a professional city manager, but is just looking at the budget and is why he has asked time over time to have a company like that that has no ties, so someone can’t say they do not want them to touch ‘this area, this area, or this area’. He stated he would love to hire someone to do that.

Councilmember Straub stated he would like to make a motion.

Councilmember Sandifer stated he can not make a motion right now.

Councilmember Straub stated he is going to tell the Council that he is going to make a motion later, but has asked before that they have someone come in and audit their books and he agrees that spending $166,000 on Monticello Road to tell them the solution is turn lanes into the schools to him was an awfully big expense. He stated he voted against that study. He stated they have also looked at studies to do egress and ingress out of a private property to find out how they can get traffic in and out of there so people can put a TIF in and do more development.

Councilmember Straub stated the City has done a lot of studies to help the property owners and he agrees it is good for the City to bring in revenue, but they should look at where they are spending their money. He stated he agrees 100% with Mr. Egan that they need to do an audit. He stated anyone who does not want to . . . he does not know what they are trying to hide. He stated the Liberty, Missouri School District finally had a state audit and it found hundreds of thousands of dollars misspent. He stated he is not saying that is happening here in Shawnee, but it might very possibly could be saved.

MIKE EGAN stated the audit he is referring to is not looking for fraud, but for best practices where the City could save money. He stated if they save 2% on $70 million, the City’s budget issue is over this year. He stated the trick is finding it every year and that is tough to do.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she has two things to speak to, as Councilmember Straub tells her that they are still looking at that and are audited each year for misappropriated funds and she will tell them that is a blatant untruth. She stated every year, and in fact at their last City Council meeting, the City’s CPA firm who is independently hired and audited and she thinks Mr. Egan agrees, came forward and said there is not misappropriation of funds. She stated it PAGE 54 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

is not that they could not find cost saving measures, but that there is not misappropriation of funds within the City of Shawnee.

Councilmember Straub asked if Finance Director Kidney confirmed that, because he thought they said the City has paid their bills and their books all balanced.

Finance Director Kidney stated they confirmed that the City’s financial reports are in conformity with generally accepted accounting principles.

Councilmember Straub stated he thinks Councilmember Kuhn was mistaken.

Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks they are saying that the City’s books are in order. She stated what Councilmember Straub compared the City to was a school district who she believes had misappropriation.

Councilmember Straub stated their books were in order too and they were audited the same way, but it was a different type of audit. He stated that is what happened in the Liberty, Missouri School District.

Councilmember Kuhn stated in reference to Councilmember Straub’s consistent bringing up of a different type of audit, a financial assessment audit of where they could look for additional cost savings, the reason she continuously said she does not think that is a necessity or something they should do is because City Manager Gonzales brought them a number of cost saving measures and she believes wholeheartedly that that audit committee will come back with a number of cost saving measures, but the question is how they will balance them.

Councilmember Kuhn stated when the Council got the things from their City Manager that said, ‘Look, $850,000 and here is what they could get rid of’ – they could close their pools and cancel the aquatic programs because they are losing money and only making back 74% of what they are costing the City. She stated go ahead, close Shawnee Town, there is $524,000 and reduce the stormwater program, reduce the street sweeping, quit licensing the pets, eliminate the crossing guards, economic development efforts gone, reduce their development level staff – they got all that.

Councilmember Straub stated those are not recommendations.

Councilmember Kuhn stated those are the same kinds of recommendations that an audit committee can bring forth to the Council. She stated there are always going to be places they can tell the City where they can cut costs, but what they are doing is balancing those cost cutting between the kind of city they want to be and that is what she does not think Councilmember Straub understands. She stated it is not a question of whether or not they could pare down the budget hundreds of thousands of dollars more, because they could, but when they do so, they give up services and Shawnee for what it really is and what they want it to be and that is exactly how she ended it. She stated she is not willing to give up the city that she believes they are and can be for those kinds of cuts.

MIKE EGAN stated interestingly enough Mayor Meyers, they are perfectly willing to give up staffing five police officers and four firefighters to the National standards. He stated they are perfectly willing to give that up, but not willing to give up cutting every department, except Police and Fire, by 5%, just to pick a number and he is not sure that is the right number.

Mayor Meyers stated they are pursuing different avenues and are trying to hire on police officers in the City. PAGE 55 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

MIKE EGAN stated the are not willing to give ‘this, this, and these four or five things up’, but they are perfectly willing to have five less police officers and four less firefighters, not only for this year, but for next year and he thinks that is unacceptable.

Mayor Meyers stated he would argue that they are not just willing to let that happen. He stated they are trying to look at different avenues to get that back so they can have full staffing. He stated they are looking into different programs. He stated he is not sure where they are at right now with the stimulus money provided through COPS and where that is going to lead. He stated it does not sound quite as exciting as what they possibly hoped for when they first heard about it, but are certainly pursuing different avenues and trying to make as many corrections and provide the best services and have the most safety for all their residents. He stated that is something they are definitely putting everything they have into trying to make those types of things happen and trying to have that balance of providing all those services that the residents of this City expect.

Councilmember Pflumm stated those were all presented to the Council as items, but the things that were not presented in there are internal things like office supplies and all those types of things and there are places in there to cut.

SHARON SWANSON, 25503 W. 69th Terrace, stated she volunteers at Shawnee Town and probably in the last three years close to 1,000 hours. She stated when talking about volunteers and giving time, Shawnee runs on volunteers a lot. She stated she knows they have paid staff there, but it is glorified and enhanced by all the volunteers and she really enjoys it.

SHARON SWANSON stated one man got up this evening and said it is only $1.00 to get in and that is usual when there is no tour, but when they have school tours it costs $2.50 per student. She stated one of the reasons for having that is because they do a lot of extra things, but also helps raise revenue. She stated they want to keep it cheap because they want to have as many students come as possible, so parents do not have to pay high amounts. She stated there are a lot of field trips out there that cost a lot more.

SHARON SWANSON stated students come to Shawnee Town and learn about a different kind of life and learn about Shawnee. She stated the students then bring their parents back later for things like Straw Hat Saturdays. She stated she knows at some of the Straw Hat Saturdays, they have had people come from Cincinnati and there was a young man from Switzerland here the last time. She stated those people stay and might have lunch some place in the City, so she believes their businesses benefit greatly by having Shawnee Town.

SHARON SWANSON stated if Shawnee Town were to shut down and the buildings deteriorate, talk about being in a hole, the City could really be in a hole and they would not be able to bring that back to where it needs to be. She stated she thinks Shawnee Town needs to stay open and needs to stay what it is. She stated it is part of this community that enhances their quality of life and when people look at that for rankings, she is sure the museum has a lot to do with that. She stated they do have parks and Shawnee Days brings in thousands and thousands of people and they get to know Shawnee, where they might never come here and feels that is very important.

SHARON SWANSON stated mainly, she just wanted to say Shawnee Town is very important and a very important thing for the City to maintain and keep at a cause where people enjoy it. She stated people were talking about some people being on low income. She stated a lot of the people they have on Straw Hat Saturdays are the older generation bringing in their grandchildren, because they can afford it. She stated in this day and age of expensive vacations that is a really nice outing for grandparents, parents, and children to come to Shawnee Town. PAGE 56 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

SHARON SWANSON stated she thinks the City is doing a service to those people who can not afford to go someplace else. She stated the Agricultural Hall of Fame is $7.00 a person and that is pretty expensive and would have to think twice about going. She stated a dollar or two dollars is okay, especially when there is a family together. She thanked the Council for their time.

RAY ERLICHMAN, 7510 Garnett Street, stated he was listening to Mr. Egan speak and to the Council interacting with him. He stated maybe he is wrong, but thinks he detected a little misunderstanding and misconception. He stated he thinks Mr. Egan’s comments about this outside audit agency was definitely not looking for the misuse of money or fraud or anything like that and thinks it is like a lot of other things in life, sometimes an outsider can see things that an insider can not.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated they could relate it some situation that many of them have gone through – marital situations. He stated people go to a marriage counselor, not Aunt Tilly or Uncle Rufus, but a marriage counselor who has no stake in the situation. He stated he is not using the word ‘stake’ in the negative connotation.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated this is not an aspersion to City Manager Gonzales as the City Manager, but when they have an outsider come in to look at things, they are going to be totally objective, because when someone is on the inside, no matter hard they try they are going to be leaning a little ‘this way or that way’ and that is human nature. He stated he thinks Mr. Egan’s idea is good and is keyed on what Councilmember Straub has said.

RAY ERLICHMAN stated he thinks Mr. Egan maybe brought it out in a little different manner than Councilmember Straub and listening to him, he thought he should come up and say something to the Council. He stated he believes Mr. Egan is on the right track – bring in an outsider before there is a divorce.

Councilmember Distler stated she had the same thought listening to Mr. Egan. She stated she always likes to say when [you] are inside the picture, [you] can not see the frame. She stated she knows from her own personal experience, sometimes things become so automatic that they do not even think about what they are doing because it is just automatic and the way it has always been done. She stated it is not that they are not looking for other things, but there are just some things where they would not think to look because it has just become habit. She stated she thought Mr. Egan’s thought was a good idea.

DAVID MORRIS, 6125 Melrose Lane, stated he would like to make a clarification. He stated their City Council gets beat up enough and does not get enough credit. He stated he made a suggestion that they consider on the franchise tax exempting fixed income. He stated that came out of a conversation he had with his councilmember, Neal Sawyer, who suggested it and he brought it forward and wanted to make sure he received credit for that suggestion.

Councilmember Straub stated the information he received about the City’s history of 2008, and he is trying to go through it and would like to get more detail, and he just pulled out two pages of hundreds of pages that Mr. Egan sent him. He stated there is a payment in there for Marvin Rainey and Ellis Rainey and their travel and reception budget for $1,000 even each. He stated he is not sure if they did a reception or if the City gave them a donation or if they were traveling for the City, but if it is a travel, it should have been a odd number and he is not sure what that is for.

City Manager Gonzales stated their long term agreement with City Attorney Rainey and Assistant City Attorney Rainey is that the City will contribute $1,000 towards their trip and they pay the balance of the fees through their company costs to the IMLA Conference each year, which is the International Municipal Lawyers Associations. She stated that is the reason behind the even number of $1,000, because the City does not pay the full cost of it PAGE 57 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

and it is a benefit to the City that they even attend, so the agreement has always been they will pay an even thousand dollars towards that trip.

Councilmember Straub stated when times are tough, maybe that is something that may need to be looked into. He stated there is another listing of $1,000 even to Wonderscope under Travel and Reception.

City Manager Gonzales stated they offered that to councilmembers or whoever could attend from the City to be a sponsor of the Wondrescope event. He stated they do that for several of their non-profits.

Councilmember Straub stated that is a perfect example if they did have the audit and maybe they would say they need to cut that a little bit. He stated the City did not give Wonderscope $20,000, but actually $21,000 for the year. He stated that is just two pages. He stated he would like the information himself when he can get it in detail.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he has sat here and heard all sides of this tonight. He stated he does take exception to Mr. Egan when he talks about he was here a year ago and none of them chose not to travel. He stated that is a misconception. He stated he has heard travel, travel, travel tonight and he did not travel any last year, except for going to Washington D.C. He stated the last travel he did was in 2008. He stated he did not go anywhere last fall or anywhere this spring.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he believes Mayor Meyers, City Manager Gonzales, and one other councilman went to D.C. He stated one councilmember was definitely set to go, but his flight got cancelled, so that was good for the City because they got to save the money.

SHANE CRAMER asked for the purpose of that trip.

Councilmember Sawyer replied it was the National League of Cities.

SHANE CRAMER asked what they do there.

Councilmember Sawyer replied they meet with senators, congressmen, and take classes.

Councilmember Pflumm stated it is a convention with classes.

Councilmember Sawyer stated it is not actually a convention.

Councilmember Sandifer stated other municipalities get together and discuss.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he has never come away from that conference, without coming back to Shawnee with an idea that he picked up from someone else. He stated the general consensus and the reason they go, is to meet with the senators and the congressmen. He stated he chose not to go this year and will not go in 2010, because he thinks travel is out.

SHANE CRAMER asked if that would be Kansas senators and congressmen, because Dennis Moore was just in town this morning.

Mayor Meyers interjected if anyone wants to make comment, please raise their hand and be recognized.

Councilmember Sawyer stated that was exactly who it was – Senator Brownback, Senator Roberts, and Congressman Moore. PAGE 58 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Sawyer stated yes, it is tough times. He stated yes they can sit here and pick this apart. He stated 2% of $70 million is $140,000, so that does not get them to the $800,000.

Councilmember Straub stated 2% of $70 million is $1.4 million.

Councilmember Sawyer stated that is still not going to get them to hiring nine more officers.

Councilmember Straub stated it would be a good start, but it does not get them there. He stated he operates on getting there and not a good start.

Councilmember Straub stated maybe they could hire three instead of five.

Councilmember Sawyer stated that would be great, but with staff, Police Chief Morgan, and Fire Chief Hudson, have worked diligently, in his opinion, with City Manager Gonzales and he knows they have concerns about wanting more officers. He stated everyone of them know they have had to pull the officers out of the D.A.R.E. Program at all the schools and the City funded that and pulled the officers and placed them back in the Police Department.

Councilmember Sawyer stated this is a tough budget and he is not sure as he sits here where he is at on it, but also takes exception sometimes when people say that they are not trying to do something about it. He stated he can not see much sense of them sitting here looking at 2005, 2006, and 2007.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he is in the retail business and operates on a budget and that is history. He stated it is nice paper, but history – there is nothing they can do about any of it – it is history. He stated they have to worry about what they are doing today.

Councilmember Sawyer stated the other thing that no one wants to touch on, or has not touched on, is that the State of Kansas has not actually done the citizens of Shawnee a great favor. He stated as a citizen of Kansas they cut taxes and tried to give businesses a break on their equipment to get more business to come to the State of Kansas. He asked if anyone has an idea what that costs the City of Shawnee per year. He stated he will give them a hint – it is $450,000.

Councilmember Sawyer stated the State legislators said they were going to keep the cities whole, but that kind of went away. He stated he has yet to hear anyone say that their assessments went down, so their taxes went down. He stated he has not heard that comment tonight, but they did.

SHANE CRAMER stated he asked them and said property values went down, so how come they left his equal this year. He stated it should go down 7% - that is what the real estate did across Johnson County. He stated they came back and said, “Sorry, we are still going to keep it just like it is”, so it does not do any good to protest because they are going to do just what they are going to do.

Councilmember Sawyer stated on average, the taxes did go down – their assessed valuation.

SHANE CRAMER stated not in his case.

Councilmember Sawyer asked City Manager Gonzales how much did the assessed value go down.

City Manager Gonzales replied 2.95%. PAGE 59 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Sawyer stated it was almost 3% citywide, so somewhere it went down. He stated he does not know where that is.

SHANE CRAMER stated nothing changed because it is still there.

Councilmember Sawyer stated taxes will always be there. He stated something his father told him a long time ago is that there are two things he can be guaranteed of – taxes and death. He stated those are two things they are going to have with them for as long as they are here.

Councilmember Sawyer stated to get back to his point, it is difficult to make up those things when the sales tax is not what it should be. He stated they are all sitting there talking about how they want the commercial base to be better, but that does not come free. He stated they started a program last year on branding the City of Shawnee and he sat on that committee. He stated he can tell them all that from time to time he was very defensive on the amount of money the City spent to develop a brand, but it had to be done; they have to tell their story and he thinks they have a good story to tell.

Councilmember Sawyer stated they talk about making the pool self-sufficient, but he knows of a couple councilmembers that when they talk about raising the price of pools, are always dead set against it. He stated he struggles with the fact that it costs more money for all of them to survive every day. He stated that is a fact of life.

Councilmember Sawyer stated they got beat up last year something fierce with fuel costs that skyrocketed. He stated no one is here to say they will not again. He stated he happens to believe they should enjoy it while it lasts, but it is going to go back up.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he is struggling with this whole budget process because he knows of a lot of needs here in the City. He stated he does not disagree with Mr. Egan when he says they need Fire and Police, because he believes that and his family has had to use the EMTs several times over the last six months for his father-in-law and he appreciates and commends them every time they show up because they are professional and are there quick and thank goodness they have done their job every time.

Councilmember Sawyer stated to sit here and say this is an easy process or that the Council does not care about the citizens, he can not speak for anyone but himself. He cares about the citizens of this community and cares about what this can mean to them. He stated he sent a note to City Manager Gonzales asking if they could look at doing like they did on the last mill increase of protecting the low income people so they can get a rebate for it because it is tough.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he still struggles with where they have to be and where they want to be. He stated every one of them in this room tonight, he believes, wants Shawnee to continue to grow and be the city they are proud to live in. He stated that is his piece and he did not choose to talk the rest of the night, but just wanted everyone to know where he stood.

Mayor Meyers stated they are going on 11:30 p.m. and thinks they have had very good discussion from the audience and plenty of discussion from the City Council, so he thinks they can bring this public hearing to a conclusion with a motion.

Councilmember Straub, seconded by Councilmember Goode, moved to conclude the public hearing to adopt the 2010 budget at $76,853,962 with the total Ad Valorem Tax to be levied at $17,707,372, with an estimated tax rate of 24.693 mills. The motion carried 8-0.

Councilmember Pflumm asked just to verify the mill and overlay, the $1.7 million they took out over the last few years, is not in what is being proposed in the motion. PAGE 60 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

City Manager Gonzales clarified there is no mill and overlay proposed in 2010.

Therefore the motion read and a roll call vote was taken:

Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Scott, moved to accept the proposed 2010 budget of $76,853,962 with an estimated tax rate of 24.693 mills and a maximum tax to be levied of $17,707,372 and asked staff to research further reductions as discussed earlier. The motion carried 5-4, with Councilmembers Scott, Sawyer, Kuhn, and Sandifer voting aye and Councilmembers Pflumm, Goode, Straub, and Distler voting aye. Having had a tie, Mayor Meyers voted in favor of the motion. Therefore the motion carried.

COUNCIL ITEMS

ITEMS FROM THE PUBLIC WORKS & SAFETY COMMITTEE MEETING OF MAY 19, 2009, CHAIRED BY MICKEY SANDIFER.

11. CONSIDER CHARTER ORDINANCE RELATED TO PRIMARIES, ELECTION CYCLES AND MAYORAL APPOINTMENTS.

Councilmember Sandifer stated that the Committee recommended 3-1 that the Council approve the Charter Ordinance. This item was tabled at the June 8, City Council meeting for the City Attorney to provide an additional legal opinion related to filling council vacancies. Approval of a charter ordinance requires six votes of the Governing Body.

Councilmember Pflumm stated this was the item that he believe he indicated has been a vacancy from the City Council and has been approved by a City Council vote and not a Governing Body vote. He asked if this is the same item.

City Attorney Rainey replied that is one of the issues.

Councilmember Pflumm asked for City Attorney Rainey’s recommendation again, because he would prefer it be a City Council vote.

City Manager Gonzales stated she believes what it says in the packet memo, is the language that was left in the ordinance.

Councilmember Pflumm stated he just wanted verification.

City Attorney Rainey stated to not leave any wrong impression, it is his opinion, and he has stated it repeatedly, that that is the way it is at this time and the Mayor can vote on it if the votes are one less than the number required for passage. He stated after this passes, regardless of the language, the Mayor can vote on it if it is one less than the number required for passage, because that is what the State statutes that they used to be under and the charter ordinances the City has always had, provide.

City Attorney Rainey stated on any action of the Council, if the number of votes required for the passage of an ordinance, a resolution, a motion, or any other action of the Council is one less than the number required, and that is true whether it says ‘Council’ or ‘Governing Body’ – one less than the number required for approval of the motion of the ordinance, resolution, motion, or action, the Mayor may cast the deciding vote in favor thereof.

Councilmember Straub stated he thinks the question was if the Council President takes Mayor, is that one of the votes or is it just for all the votes in general.

Councilmember Pflumm stated that was just one of the situations that was presented. PAGE 61 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Straub stated he believes City Attorney Rainey even came up with the solution if they added to it and basically in the event the Governing Body believes there is ineligible needs, it shall be filled by a majority vote of the remaining councilmembers elect with the Mayor having no power to cast a vote or to veto the action with the councilmembers. He stated basically, if they add that to it, that would be clarified that it is just the Council. He stated he is not sure if that could be added. He stated it sounded like City Attorney Rainey suggested that that would be a solution to fix it.

City Attorney Rainey stated that is partly correct. He stated he provided two alternative provisions if the Council wanted to change it from the way it currently states.

Councilmember Straub stated the way it reads right now, the way he would read it, and there are seven Supreme Court judges who all have different opinions, but he would like to clarify that and it would help to clarify it, so he would be supportive if they could add that verbiage.

Councilmember Sawyer asked what they are trying to fix.

Councilmember Pflumm stated they just brought up the solution that he just made a recommendation.

Councilmember Sawyer stated there is more to it than that; what is it that does not work.

Councilmember Straub stated they do not know what has worked in the past and what is going to work in the future, but the way it reads right now with “Governing Body” and the way he reads it, it does not include councilmembers. He stated it does not say “Governing Body”, but “Remaining Councilmembers”, so once the Council President becomes Mayor, that person is no longer a remaining councilmember, therefore they would not get the vote. He stated if they left it as “Councilmembers”, they would not get a vote on that replacement.

Councilmember Sawyer asked if they are worried that is going to happen.

Councilmember Pflumm stated they are just making sure that a person who is the Council President that becomes a Mayor then has a deciding vote on their own replacement. He stated that is really the issue. He stated this has been brought up and City Attorney Rainey made a recommendation and he agrees with it.

Mayor Meyers asked if that were to happen, would they then not be at an even number.

Councilmember Pflumm asked Mayor Meyers for clarification.

Mayor Meyers stated there would only be eight.

Councilmember Straub stated there are eight of them now and if the Council President were to become Mayor, there would only be seven.

Councilmember Kuhn stated mathematically it does not make sense. She stated if there are only seven remaining councilmembers and the Mayor, the vote would have to be 4-3 with the Council. She stated the Mayor can only vote to break a tie, which would mean that the Mayor in that case could only vote to make a tie, so it does not make sense.

Councilmember Pflumm stated City Attorney Rainey did say that the Mayor can vote when it makes a difference.

City Attorney Rainey stated he has never said that. He stated he thinks he has always said it very consistently this way, because it is the way the statutes and for every charter ordinance they PAGE 62 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

have had, before and now as read, is if the number of votes for an ordinance, a resolution, a motion, or an action is one less than one required for passage, then the Mayor may cast a vote in favor thereof.

Councilmember Pflumm asked if the Mayor can not cast a negative vote.

Mayor Meyers stated that is correct – to make it a 4-4 tie.

Councilmember Straub stated if there were one councilmember missing it would make a difference, so adding that little paragraph is not a problem.

Mayor Meyers stated he can either break a tie or make it a majority vote if, for instance, it becomes a situation where there was a sixth vote needed and he could make the sixth vote.

Councilmember Straub asked if they have a problem with adding those three lines.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he does not see the point.

Councilmember Straub asked if they see the point against it.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he does not understand the point for it, other than Councilmember Straub wanting to mess with it. He stated that is all he is getting out of this. He stated this has worked for years. He stated it is State statute.

Councilmember Straub asked why they are trying to change it to begin with.

Councilmember Sawyer stated he is not trying to change it.

Councilmember Straub stated that is what they are voting on tonight. He stated they are changing all kinds of things that have worked for years.

Mayor Meyers stated they have a motion and a second on the floor. A roll call vote was taken.

Councilmember Sandifer seconded by Councilmember Sawyer, moved to pass a charter ordinance related to Primaries, Mayoral Appointments and Election Cycles. The motion carried 6-2-1, with Councilmembers Scott, Sawyer, Kuhn, Sandifer, and Distler voting aye, Councilmembers Pflumm and Straub voting nay, and Councilmember Goode abstained. Having had a tie, Mayor Meyers voted in favor of the motion therefore the motion carried. Having passed, Charter Ordinance 40 was assigned.

City Attorney Rainey asked everyone to read his opinion that starts on Page 70 of the agenda packet and read it all the way through.

Councilmember Straub stated he read it and is why he liked that last paragraph. He stated that City Attorney Rainey did a great job.

ITEMS FROM THE FINANCE & ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MEETING OF JULY 07, 2009, CHAIRED BY MICHELLE DISTLER.

12. CONSIDER REVISIONS TO THE SHAWNEE MUNICIPAL CODE.

Councilmember Distler, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to pass three ordinances amending Chapters 2.38, 2.40, 5.28 and 6.10 of the Shawnee Municipal Code. The motion carried 8-0. Having passed, Ordinance 2941, 2942, and 2943 were assigned.

BUSINESS FROM THE FLOOR PAGE 63 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

There was no business from the floor.

STAFF ITEMS

13. APPROVE BID AND AWARD CONTRACT FOR THE 2009 JOHNSON DRIVE AND NOLAND STORM SEWER REPAIR.

Councilmember Scott, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to approve the bid and award the contract for the 2009 Johnson Drive and Noland Storm Sewer Repair to Cohorst Enterprises, Inc., Edgerton, Kansas, in the amount of $66,485. The motion carried 8-0.

14. CONSIDER SETTLEMENT RELEASE RELATED TO THE WOODLAND ROAD PROJECT, P.N. 3254.

Mayor Meyers stated that the Woodland Road project, from 47th Street to Shawnee Mission Parkway, began construction in 2001 and was completed in 2003. Flooding after the project was completed resulted in additional work. Staff has worked with the design consultant, Affinis to draft an agreement to reimburse the City for a portion of the additional work caused by the original design of the spillway.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated since this happened quite a few years ago he presented the intersection of 52nd and Woodland. He stated that is actually a photograph from back in 2001 before they did the Woodland project. He noted a house that existed back then. He stated their project remained the same alignment, but raised the road on Woodland. He stated when the consultant did the design they did not take into consideration the spillway from Mr. Maurer’s pond or take into consideration the spillway to the extent of the design.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated when the City had major storm events the water would go down the spillway but was not able to take the corner. He presented the improved version. He stated that basically everything was the same, but once they raised the road, the water could get underneath the box underneath the roadway, but was not able to get to that box and then backed up. He stated they took the house because it flooded at the intersection.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated water did get into one house and they are leaving the home and regrading the house which no longer got any water on storm events. He stated obviously the design was somewhat flawed, so they agreed to share the cost to not only buy the home, but also make the improvements to the spillway to make sure that drained correctly for a storm event it was designed for.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated that is what is before the Council this evening, just a final agreement. He stated basically they will cut the City a check when the agreement is approved.

Councilmember Sawyer asked out of the $410,000, almost $411,000 that this cost the City, they are only stepping up to the plate for $172,000.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom replied that is correct. He stated the staff calculated 42% of the cost.

Councilmember Sawyer stated they are getting 42% for their mistake. He stated he remembers sitting here listening about this and they could play this game all day.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated he can explain how they came up with that percentage. PAGE 64 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Sawyer stated he is one of the people who has been most vocal about consultants and that is his problem with consultants, in that every time they make a mistake the City pays. He stated he still has problems with the consultant contracts. He stated when consultants make a mistake, and clearly they made a mistake here, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it and the City is paying 60% of their mistake.

Councilmember Sawyer stated everyone is very flippant when all their audience has left about spending money.

Councilmember Pflumm stated he is not flippant about nothing.

Councilmember Sawyer stated Councilmember Pflumm is saying he wants to go and Councilmember Goode is ready to break out of here. He stated this to him is a big deal, because when the City hires consultants they are not accountable and he thinks that is what is wrong with some of this. He stated yes, they had to fix it and he agrees with it – they had to buy the house and that family had to move – the whole nine yards. He stated the City spent the money and this Council sat up here and voted to do it, but back to his point is the fact that the City is the one who is receiving 60% of the cost.

Councilmember Sawyer stated they had a great big audience here who were beating them up about not trying to save a dime and now all of a sudden they are in a hurry, but he has been in a hurry all night. He stated they are going to listen to him for a change tonight because it is his turn. He stated he just thinks they need to look at these contracts closer and when a mistake is made the City is not always the one holding the bag. He stated he realizes there will be times when they are because maybe they did not give them the right information.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated he would like to say that they did work with the Affinis on this and how it was determined was based on if they were to design this correctly the first time, Affinis, there would still be some City cost. He stated they took a look at what those costs would have been back in 2001, compared to when they did the improvements. He stated he thinks the staff spent quite a bit of time with Affinis to make sure their fair share was taken into consideration and that was not intended to be all their cost.

Councilmember Sawyer stated if they had really done their homework, they would have been able to say it would not work in the first place.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated they would have probably have had to taken the house to make this work with the pond.

Councilmember Sawyer stated that is a different story and part of the plan. He stated this was not part of the plan and that is his point. He stated they said it was going to work. He stated when people tell him something is going to work, then they should be accountable that it is going to work. He stated they have engineers and did all the calculations. He stated he remembers sitting in the meeting when they said they did all the calculations.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated he will agree that consultants are not perfect.

Councilmember Sawyer stated they should have told the City from the get go that it was not going to work, but they said it was going to work and they made a mistake and the City paid the 60%.

Councilmember Distler asked if there is anything they can do about it at this point. She asked if there is any way, shape, or form they could go back and get more money.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated they sat down for several meetings . . . PAGE 65 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Distler interjected that basically the motion is that the City has to take what they can get because they can not get any more and can not go back and get any more at this point.

City Manager Gonzales explained what she thinks Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom is saying, in that the City negotiated a settlement that they felt was fair. . .

Councilmember Distler interjected that is what she is saying, so to discuss why they are spending what they are spending – does the City have any other choice at this point.

Councilmember Sawyer answered no, but said it is no different than talking about the 2005 budget.

Councilmember Distler stated that is what she is saying, it is no different, and so if there is nothing the City can do about it, she does not know if there is anything more to talk about. She stated if they do not have any other options, they just need to approve it and move on.

Councilmember Straub stated he agrees with both Councilmember Distler and Councilmember Sawyer for now, but wonders if they can look at future . . . he stated he thinks that is what Councilmember Sawyer is saying, in that if the City is signing contracts with people who are going to do the engineering and study and if they are wrong, what is the City’s liquidated damages and what can they get out of it, versus having to negotiate it back. He stated maybe it is already in there and how it is already worded because he is sure the contract is worded some way.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom explained there is a clause in the City’s contract for errors and omissions for consulting firms and they admitted fault by that contract. He stated the next step for the staff was to negotiate how much at fault they were at and the staff feels very comfortable with this settlement.

Councilmember Straub stated he would agree with Councilmember Sawyer that the City should not spend this money if they do not have to, but if they do not have Choice B . . .

Councilmember Pflumm stated he thinks the City already spent the money and now they are giving some back.

Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated that is correct. He stated that project was already bonded several years ago.

DAVID MORRIS, 6125 Melrose Drive, stated Councilmember Pflumm is in business for himself as is he, so if a situation like that came up where someone erred on something, what is his policy.

Councilmember Pflumm replied to negotiate the best deal he can get out of it and go with it.

DAVID MORRIS stated in his business if he ever wanted to work with that company again . . .

Councilmember Pflumm interjected by asking if it was only their error, because he believes that himself and Councilmember Sandifer talked about the drainage on that with Gary Montague about coming on the north side and doing more drainage on the north side spillway instead of fixing or redoing the one on the south side.

Councilmember Sandifer confirmed that statement.

Councilmember Pflumm stated the engineers came out and he believes the City staff and they were in agreement, so that is it. He stated they did not have 100% of the fault and he does not believe they did either, but that is from somewhere around four years ago. He stated he knows they spent a lot of time negotiating things. PAGE 66 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

DAVID MORRIS stated he knows less than that, but it sounded as it was proceeding this evening to the public, that the consultant engineering firm screwed up. He stated in his business if he messes up and ever wants to do business again with that client, he makes sure it is right totally and takes full responsibility and pays all the damages to make things right. He stated in this case, it does not sound as if that is the case, but he is sure he does not know all the facts.

DAVID MORRIS stated he would like to see the City negotiate harder. He stated if someone admits full responsibility for something, he does not see why the City should pay any part and would defend Councilmember Sawyer’s position on this. He stated it does not make sense from a business standpoint from the way he does business and with his clients.

City Manager Gonzales stated Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom could go into great detail about it, but she knows that is not why they are here this evening. She stated she would just be clear that the staff believes that Affinis has stepped up for 100% of their responsibilities and have negotiated through that. She stated nothing is black and white and part of it was part of the design that was originally established and all that has been taken into account over obviously two or three years of discussions. She stated the staff feels Affinis has stepped up and done what they needed to do.

Councilmember Goode, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to approve and authorize the Mayor to sign the settlement release for the Woodland Road Project, P.N. 3254. The motion carried 8-0.

MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS

15. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF SEMI-MONTHLY CLAIM FOR JULY 27, 2009, IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,515,683.18.

Councilmember Scott, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to approve the semi- monthly claim for July 27, 2009, in the amount of $1,515,683.18. The motion carried 8-0.

16. MISCELLANEOUS COUNCIL ITEMS.

a) Audit.

Councilmember Straub stated he would like to put on the agenda for the next Council meeting the audit information. He stated he will try to do some research on it and would appreciate it if staff could do a little research on it.

Mayor Meyers asked Councilmember Straub if he would like that placed on a committee meeting or a Council meeting.

Councilmember Straub asked if it has to go to a committee meeting first.

Councilmember Pflumm stated they have a proposal from an individual.

Councilmember Straub asked to bring it to the next Council meeting.

City Manager Gonzales stated Councilmember Straub can make that motion and the only motions that can not be made on non-agenda items are things that would adopt, pass, repeal, or otherwise revise any new or existing ordinance, charter, ordinance, resolution, or policy statement.

Councilmember Straub stated he would just ask they put it on the next agenda.

ADJOURNMENT PAGE 67 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES JULY 27, 2009 Journal Page 13541

Councilmember Sandifer, seconded by Councilmember Distler, moved to adjourn. The motion carried 8- 0, and the meeting adjourned at 12:00 a.m.

Minutes prepared by: Cindy Terrell, Recording Secretary

APPROVED BY:

______Stephen Powell, City Clerk

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