4 the CLERK: Would You State Your Full Name
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4 THE CLERK: Would you state your full name,
5 please?
6 THE WITNESS: Gregory J. Eggum, E-g-g-u-m.
7 GREGORY J. EGGUM, being first duly sworn to
8 tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
9 truth, testified as follows:
10 EXAMINATION
11 BY MR. BISKUPIC:
12 Q Sir, can you state your name for the jury?
13 A Gregory Eggum.
14 Q And the last name is spelled how?
15 A E-g-g-u-m.
16 Q Sir, where are you employed now?
17 A I’m employed as a Special Agent with the Wisconsin
18 Division of Criminal Investigation assigned to the
19 Arson Bureau.
20 Q Are you a law enforcement officer?
21 A Yes, I am.
22 Q How long have you worked for the Wisconsin Division of
23 Criminal Investigation?
24 A For almost 27 years.
25 Q And within that agency have you had different titles or
432 1 roles over the last 27 years? 2 A Yes, I have. 3 Q And what’s that? 4 A When I initially came with the department, I was 5 assigned to gambling and vice investigation and 6 eventually to narcotics, the investigations. 7 Q Did you have prior law enforcement experience other 8 than with D.C.I.? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And what is that experience? 11 A I have two years with the United States Army military 12 police corps where I served as a first lieutenant on 13 active duty. 14 Q Regarding your present work with D.C.I., what’s the 15 general scope of the types of cases you investigate? 16 A Presently I will work homicide investigations, special 17 assignments, and arson, fire investigations. 18 Q How many years have you investigated arson fires? 19 A Almost 20 years. 20 Q For preparation for court did you provide the State 21 with a resume regarding your professional experience? 22 A Yes, I did. 23 MR. BISKUPIC: Do I have permission to 24 approach the witness? 25 THE COURT: You may. 433 1 BY MR. BISKUPIC: 2 Q State’s Exhibit 76. Are you familiar with that item? 3 A Yes, sir~ That’s my professional resume. 4 Q And is it up to date as of this time period? 5 A Yes, sir. 6 Q Now, regarding your experience investigating fires and 7 arson, approximately how many cases have you worked on 8 during your career with D.C.I.? 9 A Approximately 595-96 fires. 10 Q And approximately how many out of those 595 fires that 11 you investigated were determined to be arson? 12 A Two hundred thirty-nine. 13 Q So have you also had experience testifying in court as 14 an expert on arson investigation? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q How many times have you testified in court in arson 17 related cases as an expert? 18 A Approximately 38 times. 19 Q Is that in both state and federal court? 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q What type of educational training background do you 22 have that relates to your employment? 23 A I’m a graduate of the University of Wisconsin -24 Oshkosh. I have attended numerous police training 25 certification programs and over two months of training 434 1 directly related to fire and arson investigation 2 conducted by the National Fire Academy, the Bureau of 3 Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms at their training center 4 in Glynco, Georgia and numerous other seminars that I 5 have attended in the area of fire investigation of 6 cause and origin. 7 Q You also have graduated from the FBI National Academy? 8 A In 1993 I graduated from the National FBI Academy, 9 which was a three-month course devoted to police 10 investigative procedures, forensic science, and other 11 related police matters. 12 Q Are you a member of any professional associations 13 related to fire investigation? 14 A I’m a member of the International Association of Arson 15 Investigators, also the Wisconsin chapter of that 16 association. 17 Q During your work as an arson investigator, have you 18 published articles in various journals or magazines? 19 A Yes, I have. 20 Q On what types of topics? 21 A On fire-related, investigative topics. 22 Q How many times roughly have you done that? 23 A Three times. 24 Q Have you received any law enforcement awards during the 25 course of your experience? 435 1 A Yes. I received from the International Association of 2 Arson Investigators, the Wisconsin chapter, the Arson 3 Investigator of the Year award in 1988. I also 4 received from the Wisconsin Law Enforcement Officers 5 Association a certificate of achievement and from the 6 U.S. Attorney General of the Eastern District a public 7 service award. 8 Q Now, in cases in general when you’re called in to 9 investigate a fire, what prompts a state agency such as 10 D.C.I. to be called in, for example, on a local case? 11 A The local authorities, law enforcement, or fire 12 officials normally contact the Department of Justice, 13 the Arson Bureau, if they need assistance in 14 investigation of a fire that had occurred in their 15 community. 16 Q Do most smaller jurisdictions, municipal jurisdictions 17 in the state of Wisconsin have their own certified fire 18 investigator? 19 A I don’t know if most but some may. It’s difficult 20 to -- I’m not sure if all do. 21 Q Are you also called in in situations where maybe a 22 local agency may have a conflict of interest issue? 23 A Yes. 24 Q In your field of fire investigation is there a specific 25 type of certification?
436 1 A There’s -- I’m a certified fire investigator by – 2 certified by the Wisconsin International Association of 3 Arson Investigators; yes. 4 Q Is that the main certification that a fire investigator 5 can receive? 6 Yes. Yes, it is. 7 Q Now, on the issue of investigating fires in general, is 8 there a general practice or approach that you and other 9 experienced fire and arson investigators take when 10 approaching a scene? 11 A They systematic and deliberate approach towards the 12 scene in the investigation; yes. 13 Q And is there an examination as to a spectrum of 14 potential causes for a fire that you may encounter? 15 A Well, there’s basically two types of fires. There’s 16 fires that are accidental. There are only two types of 17 fires. Those fires that are accidental and those fires 18 that are deliberately set. 19 Q Now, in general approach to a scene, when focussing in 20 on an accidental fire, well, first you, in fact, try to 21 go to a scene and go right to the point where you think 22 it started or is there another approach? 23 A No, sir. I normally would not go right directly to the 24 area of origin or where the fire began. 25 Q What approach do you take in general? 437 1 A I would take a view of the entire property on the 2 outside, examining doors, windows, the land around it, 3 the homes around it, the roads that are there, and/or 4 things outside of the property or where the fire 5 occurred. 6 Q Is there a general effort upfront to try to rule out 7 other causes or eliminate other causes until you have 8 either one or very few? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q And when you talk about the category of accidental 11 fires, is there a certain breakdown within accidental 12 fires categories within that that you’ve investigated 13 things like maybe electrical or mechanical? 14 A The electrical is a heat source. And in an electrical 15 system can create fires that, of course, can create an 16 accidental fire. It can also be involved in a 17 deliberate fire. There’s also mechanical heat, which 18 can be, you know, create accidental fires, also can be 19 manipulated to, you know, to create a deliberately set 20 fire. 21 Q Have you investigated - - 22 A Chemical -- 23 Q Go ahead. 24 A And chemical heat sources, which is matches and 25 lighters and things like that that can both be, you 438 1 know, accidental and deliberately used to heat source 2 to set fires and - - 3 Q And what was the last one? 4 A And there’s a fourth category that they normally don’t 5 deal with, but there’s a nuclear heat and a solar heat 6 that heat sources that can create the energy in which 7 to have fires occur. 8 Q Regarding accidental fires you’ve investigated, have 9 you had experience in accidental fires? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Of an accidental cause? 12 A Yes. 13 Q However, roughly how many of those have you been 14 involved in in investigating? 15 A I would say well over 100. 16 Q What about mechanical accidental fires? 17 A Yes, I have. 18 Q Roughly how many of those have you investigated? 19 A Numerous. 20 Q Can you give the jury an example of an accidental 21 mechanical fire? 22 A The sparks from a machinery that becomes malfunctioning 23 and creates sparks and sets a combustible on fire would 24 be a mechanical accidental fire. 25 Q How about accidental fires as it relates to chemical 439 1 fires? Have you investigated those? 2 A Yes, I have. 3 Q And what’s an example of that type of situation that 4 you’ve come across? 5 A That would be striking a match and throwing it into 6 paper or lighting a - - lighting a fireplace with a 7 match or a butane lighter and the log rolls out and 8 creates a fire. 9 Q And that chemical category have you either studied or 10 seen certain solutions or chemicals have been mixed and 11 it creates a fire? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Now, also within the accidental category, is there 14 something that’s called accidental fire because of a 15 human element? 16 A You know most -- I would think that most accidental 17 fires have some type of human element involved in it. 18 It is either someone has done something accidentally or 19 hasn’t maintained the equipment properly. That would 20 be difficult to answer, sir. 21 Q Now, on the flip side, opposite category would be an 22 intentional fire; is that correct? 23 A Yes, sir. 24 Q When you done presentations or given expert testimony 25 on intentional fires in determining source and origin 440 1 of fire, are there some terms that you use in your 2 field of expertise? 3 A Yes, sir. 4 Q And in preparation for court did you prepare a chart 5 for assisting the jurors in your presentation, in your 6 testimony? 7 A I did, sir. 8 Q Special Agent Eggum, this is Exhibit 77. Are you 9 familiar with that item? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q And what is 77? 12 A It’s the fire investigative terminology, some 13 terminology that we will be using during this 14 testimony. 15 Q Is that a chart that you prepared? 16 A Yes, it is. 17 Q And the definitions on the chart, is that something 18 that you prepared from your own experience in a 19 particular manual or journal in your field? 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q And what manual or journal is that from? 22 A 9 21. 23 Q What type of book? 24 A It’s national -- it’s a trade publication involving the 25 investigation of fires. 441 1 Q Now, directing your attention to this particular case 2 that you were assigned to, do you recall what prompted 3 you to be involved in the investigation of the fire at 4 368 Huth Street in the city of Green Bay? 5 A Yes, sir. 6 iQ And what was that? 7 A I was called on February 12, 1998 by my supervisor say 8 around 6 o’clock in the evening and told to go to 9 Green Bay, that there had been a fire and a death 10 involved there. 11 Q Did you travel to Green Bay soon after that 12 notification? 13 A Yes, I did. 14 Q And what day did you first arrive in Green Bay? 15 A On February 12 in the evening I think shortly before 11 16 o’clock in the evening. 17 Q Now, on the next day, the 13th of February, 1998, did 18 you actually go to the scene at 368 Huth Street? 19 A Yes, I did. 20 Q And was that by yourself or with other officers? 21 A I went with others; yes. 22 Q Who did you go there with? 23 A With Joe Strauss and Lieutenant Allen Van Haute of the 24 Green Bay P.D. There may have been someone else with 25 me. I just don’t recall. 442 1 Q Who does Joe Strauss work for? 2 A Joe Strauss works for the Wisconsin Division of 3 Criminal Investigation also assigned to the Arson 4 Bureau. 5 Q Prior to your examination of the scene, did you try and 6 collect collateral information in order to prepare you 7 for entry into the scene? 8 A Yes, sir. 9 Q What type of information did you check or was provided 10 to you up to February 13 of 1998? 11 A There were investigative fire reports that were 12 provided me, investigative police reports that were 13 provided to me, numerous photographs both from the fire 14 department and the police department, and a videotape. 15 Q Did you review those items? 16 A Yes, I did. 17 Q On the 13th of February, did you actually enter the 18 scene at 368 Huth Street? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And was there a document received in order to gain 21 entry into the home? 22 A Yes, we had obtained a search warrant from a Brown 23 County Circuit Court authorizing us to enter that 24 premises. 25 Q This is Exhibit 1 25. Can you identify that for the 443 1 record? 2 A Yes, sir. That’s the document that directed us to 3 search that premises. 4 Q And it’s signed by who? 5 A Judge Atkinson. 6 Q From Brown County? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q And did that authorize your entry into the home at 368 9 Huth Street? 10 A Yes, it did. 11 Q In general, on your arson investigations, do you seek 12 to collect collateral information or information from 13 other sources and ultimately in your preparation of an 14 opinion regarding whether it’s accidental fire, an 15 intentional fire? 16 A Yes, sir. 17 Q So the collection of the reports or interviews and the 18 photographs and the videotape is that something you’ve 19 done on many cases in the past? 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q Now, regarding the examination of the scene at 368 Huth 22 Street, when you first encountered it on February 13, 23 did it appear that any steps had been taken to maintain 24 the scene since it was originally found? 25 A Yes, sir. 444 1 Q What was the collateral information you had received as 2 to when the fire scene was first discovered? 3 A The information I received it was discovered at 10:59 4 a.m. on February the 11th. 5 Q Of 1998? 6 Yes, sir. 7 Q But the first time you would have seen it was 8 approximately two days later; is that correct? 9 A That’s correct. 10 Q Is there a particular reason why Lieutenant Allen Van 11 Haute was present with you on the 13th as opposed to 12 any other officer? 13 A He had been one of the first supervisors and officers 14 at this scene on February 10, on February 11, during 15 the morning and had knowledge, direct knowledge on what 16 had been removed from there, taken from there, or what 17 had been disturbed in the scene. 18 Q Between the 11th and the 13th what kind of things did 19 you see outside the house that assisted in maintaining 20 the residence? 21 A There was a police officer that was providing security 22 and who was going to enter and not enter, and there was 23 also a police line set up around the residence. 24 Q From your experience on arson investigation, does it 25 create problems for you if a scene is not maintained or 445 1 secured by law enforcement from the time it’s found 2 until the time they do arrive? 3 A That is certainly true. 4 Q Have you encountered scenes that haven’t been 5 maintained? 6 A Yes, I have. 7 Q What type of problems does it create? 8 A You may have great problems in checking, you know, 9 establishing where evidence was located, how it got 10 there, who had been into the scene, numerous 11 possibilities of the scene changing and being 12 disturbed. 13 Q Now, regarding your examination of the scene at 368 14 Huth Street, what period of time did that encompass? 15 A We entered on February the 13th and we completed on 16 February 25. 17 Q Now, as a result of your examination of the scene 18 between February 13 through February 25 of 1998, did 19 you form an opinion to a reasonable degree of 20 professional certainty as to the cause of the fire 21 within the home at 368 Huth Street? 22 A I did. 23 Q And what was that opinion? 24 A It’s my opinion that it was a deliberately set fire, 25 that it was arson. 446 1 Q Did you prepare a report regarding your opinion and the 2 factors that related to your opinion? 3 A I did. 4 Q This is Exhibit 78. Are you familiar with that 5 document? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q What is 78? 8 A 78 is my case activity report which deals with the fire 9 scene examination. That’s my report on my examination 10 of the address at Huth Street. 11 Q Now, starting with your approach at the scene, did you 12 lay out a certain way that you were going to approach 13 the home at 368 Huth Street? 14 A Well, part of entering the scene, you know, we 15 collected the information on the photographs, videos, 16 and the reports, also had a relatively lengthy 17 conference with the people that were going to go in and 18 what -- how we were going to exactly do this. And when 19 that would include Lieutenant Van Haute and the Special 20 Agent Joe Strauss and made certain assignments and what 21 our responsibility was going to be there. 22 Q What approach did you finally take? 23 A We took the systematic examination of that scene from 24 the time of the arrival when we entered on the search 25 warrant. 447 1 Q Where did that start? 2 A That started on the outside. 3 Q From your observations of the outside of the residence 4 was there anything of note regarding the outside of 368 5 Huth Street that played a role in your arson report? 6 K Yes. 7 Q And what of note did you consider on the outside of the 8 residence at 368 Huth Street? 9 A The entry doors and doorways and windows to the 10 residence. 11 Q I’m going to refer you back briefly to a previously 12 received exhibit. This is Exhibits 4, 5, and 6 that 13 have been received into evidence. Are you familiar 14 with what’s depicted in those three photos? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q And what from your recollection is depicted in 4, 5, 17 and 6? 18 A It shows - - the top photograph shows the front door and 19 the side door to the Huth Street address, and the other 20 photograph shows the front door closer up and then the 21 side door closeup. 22 Q Do those views in 4, 5, and 6 appear to be similar to 23 views that you encountered on February 13 and 24 subsequent dates as a result of your investigation? 25 A Yes. 448 1 Q Where did that start? 2 A That started on the outside. 3 Q From your observations of the outside of the residence 4 was there anything of note regarding the outside of 368 5 Huth Street that played a role in your arson report? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And what of note did you consider on the outside of the 8 residence at 368 Huth Street? 9 A The entry doors and doorways and windows to the 10 residence. 11 Q I’m going to refer you back briefly to a previously 12 received exhibit. This is Exhibits 4, 5, and 6 that 13 have been received into evidence. Are you familiar 14 with what’s depicted in those three photos? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q And what from your recollection is depicted in 4, 5, 17 and 6? 18 A It shows - - the top photograph shows the front door and 19 the side door to the Huth Street address, and the other 20 photograph shows the front door closer up and then the 21 side door closeup. 22 Q Do those views in 4, 5, and 6 appear to be similar to 23 views that you encountered on February 13 and 24 subsequent dates as a result of your investigation? 25 A Yes. 448 1 Q Regarding the examination of the entry doors, I bring 2 to your attention Exhibits 14 through 19 that have been 3 previously received in the record. Starting with 14, 4 is that another view of the front door that you would 5 have encountered? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And 15, are you familiar with that view? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And what is 15? 10 A That’s the patio sliding door in the bedroom at the 11 address. 12 Q Is that on the back side of the house? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And 16 and 17, those relate to the front door that you 15 would have encountered? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And what about 18 and 19? 18 A That’s the side door. 19 Q Now, regarding your examination of the outside of the 20 residence and the doorways, points of entry, what of 21 note did you consider? 22 A The windows of the residence were secured, and there 23 was no -- no, no damage or indication that anyone had 24 forced entry into the windows or that the windows had 25 been used to enter the residence or leave the 449 1 residence. That included the first floor windows and 2 the basement windows. 3 Q Have you encountered forced entry scenes during your 4 work as an investigator? 5 A Oh, yea. 6 Q And what typically would you see in a forced entry type 7 of scene? 8 A Well, you may, if it’s a door, you may find pry marks 9 or broken glass, doorknobs broken off the door, this 10 type of stuff. The windows could be broken or lifted 11 up in the open position. 12 Q Have you ever encountered fire scenes that may have 13 also involved like a theft or a burglary? 14 A Yes, I have. 15 Q And typically have those involved some level of forced 16 entry? 17 A Yes, they have. 18 Q Whether through a door or a window? 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q From your examination of the inside and the outside of 21 the home, did you notice anything of a forced entry 22 nature regarding whether there was any indication of 23 theft or burglary? 24 A No, there was no forced entry. 25 Q What about any indication of theft or burglary from 450 1 your observations? 2 A No. 3 Q Anything else of note on the outside of the residence 4 or near the entryways from the outside that factored 5 into your report? 6 A Urn, there was some indication. There was quite a lot 7 of indication on the windows that there had been a fire 8 inside. I mean, they were blackened and starting to 9 crack but --10 Q Were you able to see through the windows from the 11 outside? 12 A Somewhat, yes. 13 Q What about the front windows? Could you get any clear 14 view of standing in front of the house? 15 A You - - you could see in somewhat, but it was difficult. 16 Q Other than that notation regarding the windows, 17 anything else about the outside of the residence of 18 note? 19 A The doorways, I spent quite a long time examining the 20 two entry doorways to that residence. 21 Q Did you also examine photographs of the doorways from 22 February 11, 1998? 23 A Yes, I did. 24 Q And anything of note regarding the front door as part 25 of your investigation? 451 1 A The front door had a shoelace tied around the storm 2 door handle. 3 Q Did you examine the inside door on the front? 4 A Yes, I did. 5 Q Both the front knob, the outside knob, and the inside 6 knob? 7 A Yes, I did. 8 Q And during the course of your investigation of the knob 9 on the front door, is there anything of note as it 10 relates to your arson investigation? 11 A It was in a locked position when the fire occurred. 12 Q And how are you able to determine whether the lock on 13 the front inside door was in the locked position from 14 your experience as an arson investigator? 15 A There were three ways that was established. The first 16 is when you looked at the inside portion of the door, 17 the mechanism that locked it had a turning bar that if 18 in the horizontal position would be unlocked and if in 19 the vertical position would be locked. And when in the 20 vertical position, it created a lip on the door handle 21 which collected soot. When a fire occurs, the soot and 22 smoke and burn material fills the home. As it begins 23 to cool or fill up, it falls down sort of like a snow. 24 And it hit the lip of this locking mechanism, sooting 25 it, and leaving the underside clean, which is referred 452 1 to as a protected area, and that underside of that 2 locking mechanism was clean. 3 Q So on the front door, the horizontal position was a 4 locked position? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And then there was soot on top but not on the bottom? 7 A Not on the bottom. That was one method that was 8 established at least it was locked. Also, I reviewed 9 an interview report where the person discovering the 10 fire reported that it was locked, that she had unlocked 11 the front door. 12 Q Including the rope being tied - - or the string or the 13 shoelace being tied? 14 A That she had cut that string and used a key to gain 15 entry into the front door of the residence. 16 Q Regarding the sliding glass doors on the back side of 17 the residence, is there anything of note regarding the 18 sliding glass doors? 19 A They had a security bar preventing the door from being 20 opened, and it was also locked with a latch. 21 Q Regarding your report, your investigation in this case, 22 did you form an opinion as to whether the person that 23 started this intentional fire would have existed either 24 out of the front door or out of the sliding glass door? 25 A Neither one of those doors were used for exit from this 453 1 which indicated to me that the doors -- that doesn’t 2 say that they’re locked, but they were at least closed. 3 Q Now, regarding the outside storm door on the side 4 towards the driveway, did you examine that door? 5 A Yes, I did. 6 Q And did you also receive collateral information that 7 the victim’s mother encountered that door locked on the 8 11th? 9 A Yes, I did. 10 Q From your examination of the door, was there anything 11 of note in light of the collateral information provided 12 from the victim’s mother? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And what of note? 15 A That storm door on the side of the structure that there 16 was only one way to lock that and that was with a dead 17 bolt lock which required a key to lock it. 18 Q Were you involved in recovery of any keys at the 19 residence or observed some of the keys in the 20 photographs? 21 A Yes, I was. 22 Q And direct your attention particularly to the keys on 23 the kitchen counter at the residence. Do you recall 24 seeing that in a photograph or observing those keys? 25 A Yes, I do. 455 1 home at the time this fire was set. 2 Q Did you do some examination of the side door depicted 3 in the bottom two photographs, 18 and 19? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q And regarding the inside door, the perpetrator exited 6 out that door based on your exclusion of the other two? 7 A That’s correct. 8 Q Would the person, at least from your examination, left 9 that inside door locked or unlocked when they left the 10 scene? 11 A It’s my opinion that the inside door was locked. 12 Q And what is your opinion based on? 13 A It’s based on the same information looking at the door 14 locking mechanism. It had a protected area underneath 15 it and it was sooted on top. 16 Q Now, beyond the locking mechanism on the inside doors, 17 did you also look around the actual door structure to 18 see whether the doors were opened or closed as the fire 19 would have burned? 20 A The door frames and the jams of the door were not 21 sooted showing that the smoke and heat had not escaped 22 from that door as if it had been opened you would have 23 seen soot stain, maybe even fire damage around the 24 door. There was very little of that at all around 25 either of the doors, the main entry or the side entry, 454 1 which indicated to me that the doors -- that doesn’t 2 say that they’re locked, but they were at least closed. 3 Q Now, regarding the outside storm door on the side 4 towards the driveway, did you examine that door? 5 A Yes, I did. 6 Q And did you also receive collateral information that 7 the victim’s mother encountered that door locked on the 8 11th? 9 A Yes, I did. 10 Q From your examination of the door, was there anything 11 of note in light of the collateral information provided 12 from the victim’s mother? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And what of note? 15 A That storm door on the side of the structure that there 16 was only one way to lock that and that was with a dead 17 bolt lock which required a key to lock it. 18 Q Were you involved in recovery of any keys at the 19 residence or observed some of the keys in the 20 photographs? 21 A Yes, I was. 22 Q And direct your attention particularly to the keys on 23 the kitchen counter at the residence. Do you recall 24 seeing that in a photograph or observing those keys? 25 A Yes, I do. 455 1 Q And did you make an examination of the keys or attempt 2 to use any of the keys during the course of your 3 investigation? 4 A Yes, I did. 5 Q And what of note did you discover from those keys? 6 A One key fit both the front and side inner door, and one 7 key fit the deadbolt lock to the side door of the 8 storm. 9 Q The outside storm door? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q Did you walk in and out of that storm door during the 12 course of your investigation on the 13th and days 13 following? 14 A Yes, I did. 15 Q And did you, once the door closed behind you, after 16 exiting that storm door, notice how the mechanisms 17 regarding the latch and the bolt would have interacted 18 with the frame and the catch? 19 A The door closed. Unless you engaged the deadbolt, it 20 would remain -- you could use it in or out. It would 21 not lock. 22 Q From your going in and out of the door and examination 23 of the latch, the lower part of the hardware on the 24 door, is there - - was there a way to put that latch in 25 the locked position, then walk out, and have it lock 456 1 behind you? 2 A No, that was broken, and it was in the open position, 3 could not be moved. 4 Q By broken, what do you mean? 5 A It would not go into a locked position. It remained in 6 the unlocked position meaning that that door could not 7 be locked by use of that system. 8 Q Now, when you entered the home and did your examination 9 within the home, what area did you start with? 10 A We started in the basement. 11 Q And was there a particular reason why you started in 12 the basement? 13 A One of the things that we normally do is that you never 14 walk right into the area of origin to begin. It’s from 15 the furthest way and walk towards that. 16 Q When you first initially entered, did you have some 17 idea there was fire damage in the living room area? 18 A Oh, yes. 19 Q I direct your attention to, over your left shoulder on 20 the blackboard ledge, there’s Exhibit 21. There’s a 21 diagram with apparently your name on it; is that 22 correct? 23 A Yes, sir. 24 Q Is that a diagram you prepared during the course of 25 your investigation with other D.C.I. officers and 457 1 Lieutenant Van Haute? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q And does 21 fairly and accurately depict what you 4 encountered regarding the layout of the first floor and 5 the basement at 368 Huth Street? 6 Yes, sir. 7 Q Now, in proceeding down to the basement, were there 8 some significant observations you made in the basement 9 regarding ruling out other causes? 10 A Well, the heating system was in the basement, and the 11 electrical main input to the house was in the basement 12 along with the hot water heater. None of those systems 13 were damaged to show any indication whatsoever that a 14 fire had originated in those areas. 15 Q By the time you investigated the inside of the home on 16 the 13th had you been provided collateral information 17 in the form of the findings from Dr. Teggatz? 18 A Initial information, yes. 19 Q And over the next few days during the course of your 20 investigation from the 13th to the 25th was the final 21 results given to you to assist you in your 22 investigation? 23 A There was significant information provided by that 24 time; yes. 25 Q Do you recall going down to the basement area at 368 458 1 Huth Street and examining a laundry room? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q And within the laundry room did you and Lieutenant Van 4 Haute come upon any type of clothing that you felt was 5 potentially important in regard to your investigation? 6 A We located bloody clothing. At the time I didn’t know 7 it appeared to be bloody clothing, and later on was 8 shown to be bloody clothing in the laundry basket in 9 the basement. 10 Q Was it right on the top of the laundry basket? 11 A No, it was under other clothes. 12 Q I direct you to some photos that had been previously 13 received into evidence. They’re Exhibits 22 through 14 27. Are you familiar with all six photos? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q And do they depict areas of the basement at 368 Huth 17 Street? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Directing your attention to photo Exhibit 27, near the 20 washing machine, regarding this either hamper or basket 21 that you’re referring to in your testimony, can you use 22 the pointer and just indicate to the jury where you 23 recovered some clothing? 24 A In that wired area there, right there. 25 Q The next photo is 26. Is that a closeup of the same
459 1 wire hamper or basket? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And prior to the photo in 26 did you and other officers 4 pull some items out of the hamper? 5 A The clothes had been removed when we took that 6 photograph. 7 Q Okay. Specifically, at the front of the photo on 26, 8 there appears to be some items with some substance on 9 it? 10 A Yes. 11 Q What type of clothing item was that? 12 A That was a brown, I think it was, corduroy shirt. 13 Q Was that something that you and other officers took 14 into evidence? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Was that shirt on the top of the hamper, the pile 17 inside the hamper? 18 A No, it was under other clothes that was on top of it. 19 Q The clothes over it, do those appear to have any type 20 of stain on them? 21 A There was clothes over it and clothes under it. Some 22 of the other clothes in it had blood on it. I don’t 23 remember which, you know. 24 Q Did you pull out that corduroy shirt and have it 25 individually photographed by other officers? 460 1 A Yes, I did. 2 Q There is Exhibits 28, 29, and 30. Are you familiar 3 with those items? 4 A Yes. 5 Q What’s 28, 29, and 30? 6 That’s the shirt that we removed from the laundry room 7 basket. 8 Q Same one depicted in Exhibit 26? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q Is that correct? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q Now, the view on 28 is what? 13 A That’s the front part of the shirt. 14 Q And 29 is what? 15 A The rear with the collar down. 16 Q Okay. And 30 is what? 17 A And the rear with the collar up. 18 Q Do 28, 29, and 30 fairly and accurately depict views of 19 the corduroy shirt that you and other officers 20 recovered from 368 Huth Street? 21 A Yes. 22 MR. BISKUPIC: Ask permission to publish 23 28, 29, 30? 24 MS. BOYLE: No objection. 25 THE COURT: You may do that.
461 1 MR. BISKUPIC: I believe at this point 2 Mr. Paulus had previously discussed a stipulation with 3 Ms. Boyle; is that correct? 4 MS. BOYLE: That is correct. 5 MR. PAULUS: Yes, that stipulation is 6 simply that the red substance that was on the shirt as 7 identified by Agent Eggum was tested by the Wisconsin 8 State Crime Laboratory, and it was determined to be the 9 blood of Sandra Maloney. 10 MS. BOYLE: That is a correct statement of 11 the stipulation. 12 THE COURT: Thank you. I should tell you, 13 ladies and gentlemen, as I think in each of the 14 previous stipulations, because it is a stipulation, you 15 must accept those facts as being conclusively proved. 16 BY MR. BISKUPIC: 17 Q Now, in the basement area of the home beyond the 18 collection of the shirt, was there any indication 19 regarding accidental causes discovered in the basement 20 of the home at 368 Huth Street? 21 A No. 22 Q Nothing related to chemical, electrical, or mechanical? 23 A No. 24 Q Now, after the -- after you examined the basement, 25 where did you go next?
462 1 A Went to the first floor bedrooms in the hallway and the 2 bathroom on the first floor. 3 Q And on your diagram, Exhibit 21, can you just point out 4 with a stick what areas you examined first on the first 5 level? 6 This area here, a bedroom, bathroom, bedroom, master 7 bedroom, hallway. 8 Q Regarding your observations on the first level of the 9 home, was there anything of note in the hallway area in 10 the back half of the home? 11 A It had suffered heat damage, smoke damage. 12 Q Direct your attention to a series of photos, Exhibits 13 31 through 36. Put that over your terms, sir. 14 Starting with 31, in the upper left, is that the 15 hallway area that you examined? 16 A Yes, sir. 17 Q Beyond the heat or smoke damage was there any 18 indication that the origin of the fire was in that 19 hallway area? 20 A No, sir. 21 Q Within the bedrooms on that level in the back half of 22 the first floor, is there any indication of those rooms 23 being in the area of origin of the fire? 24 A No, sir. 25 Q Was there any fire damage in those rooms? 463 1 A There was smoke and heat damage; yes. 2 Q Is that typical to find smoke damage in other areas of 3 a home when you investigate a fire that might be 4 starting in one specific point? 5 A You would expect that; yes, sir. 6 Q And in general, how does the fire develop in which the 7 other areas would be affected by smoke or heat damage? 8 A When fire begins burning, it moves up and out from the 9 area that it originated from. It’s going to seek 10 oxygen and spaces to move in which to feed, basically 11 feed on itself. And in this case, smoke and hot gases 12 went up from the living room and went throughout the 13 residence. 14 Q Okay. For a moment refer you back to your chart with 15 the terms. So I know the print is not as big as maybe 16 it would be helpful, but if you could step over and at 17 least summarize the main terms that you focus in on 18 when you do your fire investigation and how the fire 19 develops? I’ll step over here. 20 A The whole chart? 21 Q Yes. 22 A The fire itself is defined as rapid oxidation process 23 with the evolution of light and heat of varying 24 intensity. The term, the defining fire. Fire 25 investigation is the process of determining the origin
464 1 and cause and the development of the fire or an 2 explosion. The fire scene reconstruction is the 3 process of recreating the physical scene during the 4 fire scene analysis through the removal of debris and 5 replacement of contents or structural elements in their 6 pre-fire positions. 7 Q In regard to that reconstruction, were there a few 8 things you and other officers, including what 9 Lieutenant Van Haute had to do, to reconstruct 10 positioning of certain things within the home as it 11 changed from the 11th to the 13th? 12 A Yes. Yes. 13 Q What was the main thing that needed to be 14 reconstructed? 15 A The living room. 16 Q And, specifically, what items within the living room? 17 A The couch and furniture and items in that area. 18 Q Is it correct that after the removal of the body on the 19 11th the sectional couch had been pulled apart and the 20 table moved back? 21 A Yes. 22 Q And on the 13th when you first went back there with 23 Lieutenant Van Haute, did he assist in reconstructing 24 it in the way that it was originally found on the 11th? 25 A He did in the scene also there. 465 1 Q Did you also examine photos just to confirm it was the 2 same as discovered on the 11th? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Next one was the area of origin. The area of origin is 5 where the fire began. Normally, at the area of origin, 6 what you’re going to find is the largest amount of 7 damage. You’re going to find the lowest area of burn. 8 You’re going to find significant ceiling damage, and 9 you’re going to find normally the cause of the fire. 10 And the next one you have cause? 11 A Cause and circumstances, conditions, or agencies that 12 bring together fuel, ignition source, and air or oxygen 13 resulting in a fire or combustion explosion. 14 Q And accelerant? 15 A Is an agent, often ignitable liquid, used to initiate 16 or speed the spread of a fire. 17 Q And the final two elements of fire and - - 18 A The elements of fire, the combustion reaction 19 characterized by four components, the fuel, the 20 oxidizing agent, which is oxygen or air, heat, and the 21 fourth element is an uninhibited chain reaction. That 22 action released fire to blow on itself. Those four 23 elements have got to be in balance in which to afford 24 the fire to go. 25 Q What’s the significance of a trailer? 466 1 A A trailer is something that is commonly used in fires 2 that are arson, and they are fuels that have been 3 intentionally distributed from one area or another. 4 Fuels used for trailers may be ignitable liquid or 5 solids or combustion or combination of these materials 6 such as holding papers straw and liquids are often 7 used. 8 Q You may resume the stand. Now, within the whole course 9 of the residence, including the back half in the 10 bedroom, did you and Special Agent Strauss collect a 11 number of items beyond the first collection by the 12 Green Bay Police Department? 13 A Yes. 14 MR. BISKUPIC: And at this point, Your 15 Honor, there is a stipulation, Exhibit No. 94, that I 16 would like to read for the record. 17 MS. BOYLE: That’s fine. 18 THE COURT: You may do that. 19 MR. BISKUPIC: Stipulation regarding items 20 seized from 368 Huth Street by Division of Criminal 21 Investigation officers. States as follows: Between 22 the dates of February 13, 1998 and February 23, 1998, 23 Special Agent Strauss seized 62 items from the home at 24 368 Huth Street in the city of Green Bay. 62 items are 25 described on the attached pages, pages 1 through 7 of
467 1 the 9-page report. Pages 7 through 9 of the attached 2 report indicate the items were logged into evidence at 3 the Green Bay Police Department transferred by Special 4 Agent Strauss to Julie Harkins, Evidence Custodian for 5 the Green Bay Police Department. Some items were then 6 transported by Harkins to the State Crime Laboratory in 7 Madison for examination and appropriate analysis. It 8 says signed by both prosecution attorney, Vince 9 Biskupic, and defense counsel, Bridget Boyle, and 10 defendant, John Maloney. 11 It says, “Based on the stipulation of the 12 parties, the above-stated information is received by 13 the Court as evidence in the trial, and the jurors are 14 to accept the evidence as conclusively proven facts.” 15 BY MR. BISKUPIC: 16 Q Within the back area of the residence, specifically, 17 directing your attention to the bathroom, did you 18 receive information that at least one bottle of 19 alcoholic beverage was recovered from the bathroom sink 20 area in the home? 21 A Yes, sir. 22 Q And during the course of your collection with 23 Investigator Strauss, did you also recover some more 24 vodka bottles in that same bathroom below the counter? 25 A Yes.
468 1 Q Direct your attention to Exhibit No. 94, the 2 stipulation that was read, including the attached 3 pages, can you describe what item the alcohol bottles 4 were within that search? 5 A It’s listed as Item 26 on the evidence sheet, and two 6 vodka liquor bottles from the cabinet beneath the sink 7 of the bathroom on the main floor of the home. 8 Q And those were taken into evidence; is that correct? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Now, regarding the search of the bathroom and the 11 bedrooms, was there any indication whatsoever that the 12 fire would have caused -- had a source of origin in 13 those rooms? 14 A Absolutely not. 15 Q Once you completed that section of the search and 16 examinations, where did you go next? 17 A Went to the kitchen and what I referred to as the 18 dining room area. 19 Q In which part did you examine first? 20 A The kitchen. 21 Q I direct your attention to photos 37 through 42 that 22 have been received into evidence. Are you familiar 23 with those six photos? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And are those areas of the home at 368 Huth Street that 469 1 you examined? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And regarding 36, the top photo to the left, what area 4 does it depict that you examined? 5 A That’s looking -- that’s the top left photo? 6 Q Yes. 7 A That’s the dining room, which is right off the kitchen. 8 I don’t think it’s really a dining room, but I referred 9 to it as that. It’s a table in that area near the 10 front door. 11 Q Does that area divide the living room and the kitchen? 12 A Yes, it does. There’s no wall there, but it’s a 13 divider; yes. 14 Q Can you point on your diagram, Exhibit 21, where that 15 would be? 16 A It would be in this area right here. 17 Q Is there anything of significance in that dining area 18 as it relates to your investigation regarding this 19 fire? 20 A Yes. 21 Q And what of note did you notice in that area? 22 A The round kitchen table showed that there were three 23 items that had been removed from that table after the 24 fire occurred. 25 Q You later learn from collateral sources those were 470 1 birthday cards? 2 A Yes, I did. 3 Q Anything else beyond those cards in that dining area of 4 note? 5 A Well, the dining room contains part of the front door 6 and that, but besides smoke damage, and that I didn’t 7 see anything of – 8 Q Regarding the next area, the kitchen area photo at the 9 top right, Exhibit No. 38, when you examined the 10 kitchen area, was there any indication that any of the 11 appliances or electronical devices in that kitchen was 12 a source or origin of the fire? 13 A No. 14 Q The next two photos, 39 and 40, those also views around 15 kitchen area and also the closet behind the table in 16 the area of the first floor? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Anything of note indicating a source or origin of the 19 fire in those areas? 20 A No. 21 Q Once again, was there smoke damage there? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Now, the bottom two photos, 41 and 42, do those focus 24 in on the living room area? 25 A Yes, they do. 471 1 Q The bottom one on left, 41, is that a view of the 2 living room area before you and other officers 3 reconstructed it? 4 A That’s how we found it when we entered on February 13. 5 Q And within that living room area, once you had focused 6 out or ruled out any other area, was there something of 7 important attention in that room? 8 A That was determined to be the area of origin for this 9 fire. 10 Q And once you began examining the living room area of 11 368 Huth Street, what steps did you take once you did 12 the reconstruction? 13 A Well, I don’t -- I don’t understand, sir. Could you 14 repeat that? 15 Q What process did you go through in examining the living 16 room? 17 A Well, we again, as I stated on the chart, that’s part 18 of the significant portion of the investigation is the 19 reconstruction and that’s the placement and the moving 20 of material, furniture, items that are in that room 21 into their original positions. 22 Q Within that room and actually considering the 23 reconstruction, did you also consider photographs of 24 actually where the body was and how it was placed on 25 the couch? 472 1 A Yes, sir. 2 Q During the course of your examination of the couch 3 area, after the couch was put together and 4 reconstruction formed, were there specific things of 5 note that drew your attention to the couch? 6 Yes, sir. 7 Q And starting with what areas did you find things of 8 note? 9 A In the cushions of the couch and on top of the cushions 10 of the couch. 11 Q What things of note did you discover in those areas? 12 A There was a burnt matchbook of matches on top of the 13 couch. There was a twisted napkin that had been placed 14 between the pillow at the cushion and the back pillow 15 of the couch. There was blood, a significant amount of 16 what appeared to be blood, that was on the couch. 17 Q Did you take specific photographs from your examination 18 on the 13th and days following regarding the couch? 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q I direct your attention to photo Exhibits 80 through 21 85. Starting with 80, can you explain what’s depicted 22 in 80? 23 A That’s the couch on how we reconstructed it, and you 24 know how it appeared at the time that the fire 25 occurred. 473 1 Q And 81 is what? 2 A 81 is towards the - -3 Q This one? 4 A That’s the cushion, the cushion of the couch. 5 Q So the right one facing the couch? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And 82 is what? 8 A That is -- it’s a closeup of right there of the tissue 9 paper that we found that was wrapped like a wick and 10 stuck inside of the cushion. 11 Q And what did you consider the significance of that to 12 be? 13 A I believe that was a trailer. 14 Q And by trailer, as you previously defined, something 15 used to intentionally start the fire? 16 A Correct. 17 Q 83 is a closeup of what? 18 A That’s a baseball hat that’s laying on the couch with a 19 book of matches that were burnt underneath it, 20 underneath it. 21 Q From your review of where the body was originally 22 positioned, how was the body positioned in relationship 23 to the hat and the matches? 24 A That would be not under the body but near the head. 25 Q 84 is what? 474 1 A I have to see it, sir. 2 Q Sorry. 3 A That is the two cushions removed. Underneath those 4 cushions there was a tissue paper napkin found that had 5 blood on it. 6 What cushions in reference to the right or the left of 7 the couch as you face it? 8 A The right. 9 Q 85 is a photo of what? 10 A 85 is a book of burned matches that were located under 11 the couch. 12 Q Is that a photograph after you and other officers had 13 moved it? 14 A Yes. 15 MR. BISKUPIC: Ask that 83 through 85 be 16 received? 17 MS. BOYLE: Sure, no problem. 18 THE COURT: 83 through 85 are received. 19 BY MR. BISKUPIC: 20 Q Beyond the photographs of the couch area, did you also 21 arrange your photographs of the floor and source of 22 origin in that area? 23 A Yes. 24 Q These are exhibits 86 through 91. Starting with 86 on 25 the top left, can you explain to the jury what 86 is?
475 1 A That’s the floor in front of the couch. 2 Q It probably would be easier if I have you stand down, 3 and I’ll hold it so you can point it out to the jury 4 this way. Starting with 86? 5 A That’s the floor in front of the couch, this being the 6 couch and the floor and the coffee table that was 7 between the front of the couch. 8 Q And the significance of the depiction in that photo is 9 what? 10 A The significant burning on the floor in this area. In 11 fact, it had burned through the floor, through the 12 carpeting, the padding, and all into the subfloor of 13 the floor in that area leaving a hole burnt into the 14 floor. 15 Q 87 is what? 16 A That’s after we removed the couch and swept, and at 17 this point had put some water on to clean off debris so 18 you could see it better. Again, it shows where the 19 couch would have been located. In fact, you can see 20 that’s part of the reconstruction of the scene. This 21 line right here would have been the outer edge of the 22 couch’s front and it ran this way. There again is this 23 hole which is shown there. 24 Q In relation to where that hole is, where was that in 25 relation to the position of the body as found on the 476 1 11th? 2 A There’s a hole here. There’s also a significant hole 3 burned through the floor right here which was under the 4 couch. That couch came in two sections, and it had 5 been moved slightly, one section away from the other. 6 The body’s pelvic area would have been in the area that 7 the section had been moved, and the legs would have 8 been this way, and the head would be -- the trunk and 9 the head would have been this way on the couch. 10 Q Based on the photographs that you reviewed regarding 11 the original placement of the body and then your 12 examination of the couch and the floor, was there any 13 debris or any indication of a trailer underneath the 14 couch where it separates? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q And what was the evidence that you found? 17 A On the original photographs that were presented to me, 18 in this area here, there was an ash that you can see in 19 the photographs and that ash spread into the couch and 20 ran into the couch this way and that way. Also, when 21 we did our scene reconstruction, in moving the debris 22 there we found clothing, what appeared to be clothing 23 that radiated from this area and moved into the couch. 24 Q 88 would be what? 25 A That began as just a closeup, swept of the debris of 477 1 this hole here. 2 Q 89 is what? 3 A 89 is another view of this. It’s again showing some of 4 the electrical outlets that were there. There was 5 nothing plugged into them. They really are not 6 related. They’re not damaged. There’s also an unusual 7 burn or burn that’s coming up from the floor, which 8 would have been of the burn of the couch right here. 9 Q What would that be consistent in your opinion? 10 A It could be a separate set of something that had been 11 placed there or it - - maybe it fell off the couch. I 12 couldn’t really tell. 13 Q From your examination of the photographs, including the 14 videotape, did you see a number of spent matches in the 15 area of the coffee table in front of the couch? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And in regard to the ignition of the fire, do you have 18 an opinion as to how the person would have ignited the 19 fire in use of the trailers either within the cushions 20 or below the couch? 21 A With an open flame. 22 Q The positioning of the burn on the back wall, would 23 that be consistent with starting a fire in a certain 24 way? 25 A Yes, it would. 478 1 Q And what, from your spectrum of opinion, would have 2 caused that burn on the back wall? 3 A My concern on the back wall is that something had been 4 lit, like a cloth, and when we removed this item here, 5 it was cloth, that something had been lit and then 6 tossed and hit the wall and fell on the floor. There 7 was cloth in that area and another significant burn as 8 you do find here and there, but we’re just not sure if 9 it didn’t fall off the end of the couch like a blanket 10 that had been on the couch, and when burned, fell on 11 the floor and began burning. It’s very difficult. 12 Q 90 and 91 would be the wall in back of the couch with 13 the burns? 14 A That’s before we cleaned it up showing the debris that 15 was there and that’s after showing the burn. 16 MR. BISKUPIC: You may resume the stand. 17 BY MR. BISKUPIC: 18 Q Regarding 86 through 91, do all of them fairly and 19 accurately depict scenes that you observed at 368 Huth 20 Street? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Now, ultimately did you form an opinion as to the exact 23 area of origin of this fire? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And in your opinion, where was the exact area of 479 1 origin? 2 A It was on the floor in front of the couch, into the 3 couch, on the couch in the pillows, and it included the 4 body of Sandy. 5 Q Regarding accelerants that you observed and found 6 evidence of, what types did you see? 7 A Well, there was cloth that was on the floor. There was 8 paper that had been stuffed into the cushions. There 9 was matches on there, and there were also, although not 10 in the area of origin, there was Aristocrat vodka, 11 which does burn. 12 Q There was some cigarettes recovered from a few areas of 13 the counter in the residence; is that right? 14 A There were cigarettes in the living room, in the 15 kitchen, in the bedrooms. They were throughout. And 16 in the area of origin there was cigarette materials 17 laying on the floor on the coffee table and throughout 18 that area. 19 Q Did you make effort to examine this fire scene as to 20 whether you could rule out human element accident such 21 as careless use of smoking materials? 22 A This is not a smoking fire, careless use of smoking 23 material fire. 24 Q Have you investigated those types of fires? 25 A Yes, I have. 480 1 Q And, typically, what would you see if it had been 2 somebody who maybe fell asleep on a bed or a couch 3 while smoking a cigarette? 4 A You would see far more destruction that occurred there 5 in this area that we’re viewing. The couch more than 6 likely would not exist anymore. 7 Q And the ultimate physical findings that you observed at 8 the scene in the living room were those consistent or 9 inconsistent with a careless smoking fire? 10 A They were inconsistent. 11 Q Is there any way in your mind, in your opinion and 12 experience, that it was a careless smoking fire? 13 A This was not a careless use of smoking material fire at 14 all. 15 Q Regarding the areas of origin, did you have two 16 photographs specifically prepared regarding those 17 areas? 18 A Yes. 19 Q I draw your attention to 92 and 93. Starting with 92, 20 can you explain what’s depicted there? 21 A Again, that’s after significant overhaul and removing 22 the cushions from the couch, but, again, it’s the hole 23 that was in front of the couch and the burning to the 24 couch itself in its separation area. 25 Q Regarding one of the main trailers that you previously 481 1 described, can you use your pointer and point out where 2 in relation to the cushions that trailer was created? 3 A Well, there was a trailer here, I believe, that went 4 into this area and up in here. It was also that 5 material that I found stuck in here, and then on top of 6 there, there was matchbooks under the baseball hat, and 7 then there were also burned matches located on the 8 floor under the couch right in this area here. 9 Q And 93? 10 A 93 is removing everything again, just showing you an 11 overall view of what the floor looked like in that 12 particular area. 13 Q Once the couch had been removed? 14 A Once it had been removed and we had cleaned it up. 15 MR. BISKUPIC: I ask that 92 and 93 be 16 received? 17 MS. BOYLE: No objection. 18 MR. BISKUPIC: Also regarding the previous 19 board, 86 through 91? 20 MS. BOYLE: No objection. 21 THE COURT: 92 and 93 are received as are 22 86 through 91. 23 BY MR. BISKUPIC: 24 Q Now, you examined photographs of the body of Sandra 25 Maloney and the burn pattern in the area of her body; 482 1 is that correct? 2 A Yes. 3 Q You also mentioned that you previously, along with 4 Officer Strauss, recovered some Aristocrat vodka and 5 Green Bay officers did also at some various locations? 6 Yes. 7 Q Is there anything in the burn area around the couch or 8 even on the body that would be consistent with pouring 9 something like Aristocrat vodka around the couch and 10 the body? 11 A There’s a possibility that could be consistent; yes. 12 Q Did you run some experiments regarding that specific 13 type of vodka and burn testing? 14 A Yes, I did. 15 Q And what specifically did you do? 16 A I purchased the Aristocrat brandy from a liquor store. 17 Q Is it vodka? 18 A Vodka - - I’m sorry - - the vodka, and attempted to set 19 it on fire and was successful. 20 Q And once the type of burn, is it the type that you 21 would be able to find traces of the vodka or is it 22 impossible to trace? 23 A Well, the alcohol, it burns very, very clean and very 24 hot. It also evaporates quickly, and it’s very 25 difficult to find that when you take samples at a fire 483 1 scene. It’s not like a heavy material like gasoline 2 that has a lot of impurities in it that would remain in 3 the area of origin. 4 Q Now, regarding the ultimate opinions on your report, 5 did you prepare a chart with the areas of origin and 6 unusual burn? 7 A Yes, I did. 8 MR. BISKUPIC: This is Exhibit 79. 9 BY MR. BISKUPIC: 10 Q Are you familiar with this diagram? 11 A Yes. 12 MR. BISKUPIC: Ask permission for the 13 witness to step down once again? 14 THE COURT: You may do that, Mr. Eggum. 15 BY MR. BISKUPIC: 16 Q Special Agent Egguzn, regarding Exhibit 79, beginning 17 with areas of origin, can you use your blue marker and 18 point out the highlighted positions from your diagram 19 79? 20 A You want the area of origin in blue or --21 Q Red if you choose to. 22 A The area of origin is in that area of the couch. 23 Q And the areas of unusual burn, if you can use the blue 24 marker, please? 25 A To the rear of the couch, against the wall. 484 1 Q Now, 79, does that diagram fairly and accurately depict 2 the living room area at 368 Huth Street as you 3 encountered it? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q Does it also now depict the areas of origin and unusual 6 burn as you detected as part of your arson 7 investigation? 8 A Yes, sir. 9 MR. BISKUPIC: We ask that 79 be received? 10 MS. BOYLE: No problem. 11 THE COURT: 79 is received. 12 BY MR. BISKUPIC: 13 Q Regarding that diagram, can you indicate with an “X” 14 from your photographs where the body’s head would be 15 positioned on the couch? And the body was face down; 16 is that correct? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q Is there any portion of the body hanging off the side 19 of the couch from your recollection? 20 A Sir, I don’t think -- this wasn’t face down. It was on 21 its chin. You know, it was back, but the face was up. 22 Q The chest down though? 23 A Chest was down; yes. 24 Q And legs with the front of the thighs going down into 25 the cushions?
485 1 A Yes. 2 Q Regarding other items within the living room area at 3 the residence, did you observe a wall clock at 368 Huth 4 Street? 5 A Yes, I did. 6 Q Was that arranged to be sent to the State Crime Lab for 7 examination? 8 A Yes, it was. 9 Q Regarding the clock from the living room, did you 10 observe any - - the condition of the clock? 11 A Yes, I did. 12 Q And what of note did you examine on the clock? 13 A It was soot -- sooted and badly subjected to heat and 14 it didn’t work and it was also stopped at what appeared 15 to be 7:53. 16 Q Directing your attention to photo Exhibits 54 and 55 17 that have been received into evidence previously, are 18 you familiar with those items? 19 A Yes. 20 Q What’s 54? 21 A That’s a long shot of the clock from some distance away 22 that was in the living room. 23 Q And 55 is what? 24 A Is a closeup of the same clock. 25 Q Was that forwarded to Mr. David Lyle, an analyst at the 486 1 State Crime Lab? 2 A Yes, it was. 3 Q And did you discuss with him the effect of fire or soot 4 or smoke on that clock? 5 A Yes, we did. 6 Q And did you share the same opinions with him? 7 A Yes. 8 MR. BISKUPIC: The stipulation, Exhibit No. 9 98? 10 MS. BOYLE: No problem. 11 THE COURT: You may read it, Mr. Biskupic. 12 MR. BISKUPIC: This is a stipulation 13 regarding the delivery of clocks and a telephone also 14 to the State Crime Lab. It indicates during the course 15 of the police investigation at 368 Huth Street in the 16 city of Green Bay, Wisconsin, Special Agents Eggum and 17 Skorlinski of the Wisconsin Department of Justice, 18 Division of Criminal Investigations arranged for two 19 wall clocks, one found in the kitchen, one found in the 20 living room, to be forwarded to the Wisconsin State 21 Crime Lab for observation by Analyst David Lyle. The 22 Special Agents also arranged with the Green Bay Police 23 Department to have a telephone unit from that kitchen 24 counter to be forwarded to the State Crime Lab also for 25 observation. Lyle’s 2-page report is attached and 487 1 incorporated into the stipulation. It’s signed by the 2 prosecution, defense counsel, and the defendant. It 3 says, “Based on the stipulation of the parties, the 4 above stated information is received by the Court as 5 evidence in the trial, and the jurors are to accept the 6 evidence as conclusively proven.” 7 BY MR. BISKUPIC: 8 Q Regarding the living room clock, I direct your 9 attention to the attached report on Exhibit 98, the 10 bottom paragraph. 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q And what did Mr. Lyle indicate? 13 A It says that Mr. Lyle had examined the hands of the 14 clock and determined that the hands had been stopped by 15 soot and lint that was inside of that mechanism. He 16 also determined that the clock used a “D” size dry cell
18 had power. 19 Q Does he also indicate what the examination indicates 20 regarding the buildup of dust and soot? 21 A That the soot and the dust had stopped the hands on 22 that clock. 23 Q And is that from your observations, your same 24 conclusion? 25 A That would be -- yes, I would agree with that. 488 1 Q Now, during the course of the investigation of this 2 case, did you form any opinions as to how long it would 3 take for someone to set this type of fire at 368 Huth 4 Street? 5 A Minutes. 6 Q Approximately, in your opinion, what’s the minimal 7 amount of minutes it would take to start this kind of 8 fire? 9 A If you had the material set and ready to go and placed 10 in there, five minutes. 11 Q And from your observations of the photographs, the 12 video, and ultimately your investigation, does it 13 suggest in your opinion whether this was fire set by 14 someone who did an effective job? 15 A Oh, yes. 16 Q As he opposed to something crudely done? 17 A It was an effective job. 18 Q Would you agree at some point it did burn out? 19 A Yes, it did. 20 Q And from your observations of the home was there some 21 windows that you observed that were opened to provide 22 some ventilation? 23 A There was a bedroom window open in the master bedroom. 24 Q And regarding the fact that the fire burnt out, in your 25 opinion, what caused it to burn out? 489 1 A The last element that we’ve talked about fire or is the 2 ability for fire to have the uninhibited chain 3 reaction. That chain reaction was broken. I believe 4 it ran out of oxygen. 5 Q Despite the fact there was that one window open? 6 The window was covered by Venetian blind so I’m not 7 sure how much that added in way of oxygen to the fire. 8 Q Now, regarding the area directly around the couch and 9 your observations whether this was a crudely done fire 10 or a more sophisticated fire, what things of note did 11 you notice that led you to believe it wasn’t a crudely 12 done fire? It was something a little more 13 sophisticated? 14 A There were cigarettes and smoking materials that in my 15 opinion were set there deliberately to make this appear 16 that someone had fallen asleep while smoking inside of 17 a davenport late at night. 18 Q Have you encountered deceptive fire scenes either 19 because of the circumstances or the actings of the 20 perpetrator may try to steer you and a fire fighter a 21 particular way? 22 A That’s not uncommon. 23 Q Have you also encountered fire scenes that have been 24 used to cover up other crimes such as a death or a 25 burglary or a theft? 490 1 A Yes, including careless use of smoking that made appear 2 that to be the cause rather than death. 3 Q What things of particular note of this fire led you to 4 believe this was a deceptive scene, trying to steer 5 Detective to careless use of smoking fire? 6 The cigarettes and smoking materials that were in the 7 area of origin. The fact that all the doors to the 8 residence were closed and locked. In fact, the door 9 that would have served as the exit, in my opinion, to 10 the person responsible for this arson was locked by a 11 deadbolt, which required a key to enter the door. The 12 victim that was laying in there, if it would have been 13 determined or looked at as careless use of smoking 14 material, the possibility of investigator saying she 15 was there, fell asleep with a cigarette, and burned up 16 and nobody could have gotten into that residence to 17 open the door because she was locked inside. 18 Q Based on your observation of the damage at the 19 residence at 368 Huth Street around the couch, what 20 would have happened if that fire had been ventilated a 21 little bit better than just as it existed? 22 A In my opinion, that fire was extremely close to venting 23 itself. The windows in -- near the area of origin in 24 the living room were beginning to crack. With a little 25 bit more heat, there’s a real good possibility that 491 1 they would have cracked, allowing sufficient oxygen 2 into that building mixed with heat, and you would have 3 had a significant fire that would have done tremendous 4 damage to that residence and to the body of Sandy. 5 Q Once the windows is cracked, how soon does it take for 6 the fire to accelerate in great fashion? 7 A There’s a number of factors in there, but it could be 8 instantaneous - - instantaneously or shortly after they 9 cracked. There’s some factors in there that would have 10 to be further looked at. 11 Q During the course of your investigation, beyond the 12 fire investigation, were you also assigned to time 13 routes from driving from particular locations within 14 the city of Green Bay? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Specifically, on some occasions, did you time routes 17 between 657 Menlo Park and 368 Huth Street? 18 A Yes, I did. 19 Q And regarding those routes traveled, did you assist law 20 enforcement in creating a map of a portion of Green Bay 21 to show where those routes were? 22 A Yes, I did. 23 Q I direct your attention to Exhibit 96, if you could 24 please step down. What does 96 depict? 25 A That’s a map of the city of Green Bay. 492 1 Q And, specifically, can you point out the location of 2 368 Huth Street? 3 A It’s located right there. 4 Q At the tip of the red arrow? 5 A Right there. 6 Q And then also can you point out the area of 657 Menlo 7 Park Road? 8 A It’s at the tip of the red arrow right there. 9 Q Why did you choose those two locations to run a drive 10 test, timed drive? 11 A Well, the Huth Street is where the fire occurred, and 12 the Menlo Park address was where John Maloney resided. 13 Q How long of a distance is there between those two 14 locations? 15 A Approximately 1.7 miles. 16 Q And how many different times did you run timed drives 17 between those two locations? 18 A Twice. 19 Q And when were those two drives? 20 A Most recently the two were done on February 2 of this 21 year. 22 Q And the routes that you took between Menlo Park 23 Drive - - or Menlo Park Road and 368 Huth Drive, were 24 you driving or were you with another officer? 25 A I was with a lieutenant from the Green Bay Police 493 1 Department. I was driving my vehicle. 2 Q And how did you simulate the timed drive? 3 A We did the speed limit, and we went the most direct 4 route to the address. 5 Q And the total distance was on that drive when you drove 6 directly from Menlo Park Road to 368 Huth Street was 7 what? 8 A 1.7 miles. 9 Q And how much total time did that take? 10 A Four minutes, ten seconds. 11 Q Did you also do a time drive where you stopped 12 approximately two blocks from the residence at 368 Huth 13 Street? 14 A Yes. Yes, I did. 15 Q What prompted you to do that? 16 A They received information and had seen a videotape 17 where John Maloney was discussing where he parked his 18 vehicle at 3 a.m. in the morning of, I believe it’s, 19 February 11, ‘98, and he had said he parked two blocks 20 from the address where the fire occurred. 21 Q So when driving from Menlo Park Road to position two 22 blocks from 368 Huth Street and walking that, how much 23 time did it take you to do that? 24 A It was a total of six minutes, nine seconds; four 25 minutes, nine seconds to drive to that place where the 494 1 vehicle was parked, and two minutes to walk. 2 Q Beyond the markings on the Exhibit No. 96, did you also 3 mark the two locations on an aerial map? 4 A Yes, I did. 5 Q This is Exhibit No. 97. I ask if you step down, 6 please? What does 97 depict? 7 A That’s a section of the -- of Green Bay from -- taken 8 from an airplane. 9 Q And does it also fairly accurately depict a section of 10 Green Bay that contains 657 Menlow Park Road and 368 11 Huth Street? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Can you point out for the record where 657 Menlo Park 14 Road is? 15 A It would be right here. 16 Q Towards the bottom right of the photo? 17 A Yes. 18 Q And then 368 Huth Street? 19 A Would be right here. 20 Q You indicated from your previous testimony the distance 21 by travel on the roadways would be roughly 1.7 miles? 22 A Yes, sir. 23 MR. BISKUPIC: Just one second, please. 24 BY MR. BISKUPIC: 25 Q Regarding the area map, are you familiar with those 495 1 other locations on there? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Can you point them out for the record also? 4 A The fire station, a Pick’N Go gas station, Copps Food 5 Center, and that besides the Menlow and the Huth Street 6 address, that’s it. 7 Q Does that photo fairly and accurately depict all five 8 locations that you’ve identified on there? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q Regarding the area at 368 Huth Street within the 11 residence, was there anything within the residence from 12 your examination of the scene around the couch or any 13 other area that indicated a sign of struggle between 14 the victim and the perpetrator? 15 A No, sir. 16 Q Was there any indication within the areas of the house 17 of signs of theft? 18 A No, sir. 19 Q The areas and the lower level, was there any indication 20 that any items had been gone through or ransacked on 21 the lower level? 22 A No, sir. 23 Q Was there any damage to any doorways in the basement 24 area? 25 MS. BOYLE: I’m going to object. I think 496 1 it’s irrelevant. 2 THE COURT: Sustained. 3 MR. BISKUPIC: I’ll move on. That’s all I 4 have on direct. 5 THE COURT: Thank you. Ms. Boyle? 6 MS. BOYLE: Thank you. 7 EXAMINATION 8 BY MS. BOYLE: 9 Q Mr. Eggum, you said you conducted some surveillance 10 from Menlo Park to the Huth Street address, is that 11 correct, not surveillance but time trips? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And you said when you parked your vehicle two blocks 14 away that it took you six minutes and nine seconds; 15 correct? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Where did you park the vehicle? 18 A It was parked on a street, urn, Oak Dale, near the Huth 19 Street approximately two blocks away. 20 Q And that took six minutes and nine seconds and that 21 was - - go ahead? 22 A Correct; yes, ma’am. 23 Q And that was walking from that point where you stopped 24 the vehicle? 25 A Walking and driving. 497 1 Q Now, you, as a result of your investigation, compiled a 2 report on your observations and your opinions as to 3 what occurred at 368 Huth Street; correct? 4 A Yes, ma’am. 5 Q And that report was completed -- I see on the bottom of 6 it that you have your initials with 3/6/98? 7 A That’s when it was completed, typed; yes, ma’am. 8 Q Now, when you did this report, what you did is you 9 walked around the outside of the house; correct? 10 A Yes, ma’am. 11 Q And that was to determine whether or not there was 12 anything on the outside that might be of interest to 13 you? 14 A Yes, ma’azn. 15 Q And you didn’t find anything of interest; correct? 16 Anything that would lead you to believe that this was 17 an arson or that this was an accidental fire, anything 18 along that lines? 19 A On the outside of the house? 20 Q Yea. 21 A Except there had been a fire. No, there wasn’t; no. 22 Q There wasn’t -- you didn’t see any footprints leading 23 from the back sliding door out through the fence to 24 tell you that maybe someone had broken into that back 25 sliding door and left through there; correct? 498 1 A There were footprints back there; yes. 2 Q Do you know where those footprints came from? 3 A They came from the rear, and I’m told that they were 4 police officer or fire fighters that had been there 5 previously. 6 So what you did is you looked around, and you went 7 inside and looked around inside; correct? 8 A That’s correct. 9 Q And you started out in the basement, you said? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And what you determined in the basement is that there 12 was not a lot of damage down there with soot; correct? 13 A That’s correct. 14 Q You went into - - there was a bathroom down in the 15 basement? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And when you went into that bathroom, you made some 18 notes as to what you saw? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And one of the notes that you made was there was some 21 small drops of what appeared to be blood in front of 22 the toilet area? 23 A Very small; yes, ma’am. 24 Q And there was also - - you learned from people that 25 there was suspected blood in other areas of the 499 1 basement; correct? 2 A Yes, ma’ am. 3 Q And you also learned through other information that 4 there was blood that was found that had been cleaned up 5 in that basement area in the bathroom area; correct? 6 I don’t know if it was cleaned up, but there was blood 7 found there; yes. 8 Q Were you present when they conducted an experiment with 9 luminol? 10 A No, I was not. 11 Q Do you know who conducted that experiment? 12 A The Wisconsin State Crime Lab. 13 Q Do you have an idea of the name of the person that did 14 it? 15 A Right offhand I don’t have it, but I could surely, you 16 know, obtain it. I just don’t recall his name. 17 Q If you could do that for me, I would appreciate it. 18 You then went and looked in the rec room; correct? 19 A Correct. 20 Q And you found - - you examined a coffee table in that 21 rec area? 22 A Yes. 23 Q And did you find anything of importance on that coffee 24 table? 25 A There were some video machines on the coffee table. 500 1 A There were footprints back there; yes.
2 Q Do you know where those footprints came from?
3 A They came from the rear, and I’m told that they were
4 police officer or fire fighters that had been there
5 previously.
6 So what you did is you looked around, and you went
7 inside and looked around inside; correct?
8 A That’s correct.
9 Q And you started out in the basement, you said?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And what you determined in the basement is that there
12 was not a lot of damage down there with soot; correct?
13 A That’s correct.
14 Q You went into - - there was a bathroom down in the
15 basement?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And when you went into that bathroom, you made some
18 notes as to what you saw?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And one of the notes that you made was there was some
21 small drops of what appeared to be blood in front of
22 the toilet area?
23 A Very small; yes, ma’am. 24 Q And there was also - - you learned from people that
25 there was suspected blood in other areas of the
499 1 basement; correct?
2 A Yes, ma’ am.
3 Q And you also learned through other information that
4 there was blood that was found that had been cleaned up
5 in that basement area in the bathroom area; correct?
6 I don’t know if it was cleaned up, but there was blood
7 found there; yes.
8 Q Were you present when they conducted an experiment with
9 luminol?
10 A No, I was not.
11 Q Do you know who conducted that experiment?
12 A The Wisconsin State Crime Lab.
13 Q Do you have an idea of the name of the person that did
14 it?
15 A Right offhand I don’t have it, but I could surely, you
16 know, obtain it. I just don’t recall his name.
17 Q If you could do that for me, I would appreciate it.
18 You then went and looked in the rec room; correct?
19 A Correct.
20 Q And you found - - you examined a coffee table in that
21 rec area?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And did you find anything of importance on that coffee 24 table?
25 A There were some video machines on the coffee table.
500 1 Are we talking a coffee table in front of the couch
2 there?
3 Q Yes.
4 A Yes, there was some video machines there; two.
5 Q Did you also learn from your own investigation or from
6 others that there was blood found on the corner of that
7 coffee table?
8 A I understand that there was; yes.
9 Q Was there anything else that was unusual to you that
10 you found in that rec room area?
11 A Um, no.
12 Q Do you recall maybe it wasn’t there at the time but was
13 there an electrical cord found hanging from the -- 14 A Yes, ma’axn. There was an electrical cord there.
15 Q Now, when you went in and examined the house, was that
16 electrical cord still there or had someone taken it
17 out?
18 A No, it was there when we initially went down into the
19 basement; yes.
20 Q And could you please describe how that electrical cord
21 was?
22 A It was tied around an electrical tubing that ran across
23 the rafters of the basement ceiling.
24 Q And it was hanging down from the ceiling to the ground? 25 A Yes, it was.
501 1 Q In the laundry room you told us about some - - the shirt
2 that was found in the hamper?
3 A Yes, ma’ain.
4 Q Also, what you do in your job is you try to eliminate
5 certain things, so, for instance, if you went in the
6 laundry room and there was some, let’s say, paint
7 thinner that could be used as an accelerant, and you
8 found that it was missing down in that laundry room,
9 you might think that was an accelerant that was used in
10 the fire?
11 A Yes, ma’am.
12 Q And you made a note in your report that in regards to
13 the laundry room area, if I could just read it to you,
14 located on the east wall of the laundry room was a
15 storage shelf that contained cleaning solvents,
16 turpentines, and other assorted items. It did not
17 appear that anything had been removed from that shelf
18 due to the fact that the shelf was dusty and there were
19 no outlines of. any item being removed?
20 A Yes, ma’am.
21 Q Do you recall -- you recall writing that?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And that’s because you went and you looked and there 24 was something that you thought in your head that said
25 these things could be used as an accelerant and can
502 1 eliminate them as the accelerant being used for the
2 fire upstairs.
3 A I don’t think I was saying that. It’s just there was
4 some materials on that couch -- I mean -- on that
5 bookcase or shelf that potentially I’ve had experience
6 they may be used as accelerants.
7 Q You know these weren’t because the shelf was dusty and
8 the dust hadn’t been disturbed; correct?
9 A That’s correct.
10 Q So now you move upstairs and you go and you go through
11 each room of that house; correct?
12 A Yes, ma’am.
13 Q And you make a decision as to what is important and you
14 write it down. If there’s nothing important, you don’t
15 write anything down. Is that a fair statement?
16 A I think, yes, that would be.
17 Q You went into a child bedroom, and you noted that there
18 was some heavy smoke damage but nothing of note was
19 located during this search?
20 A Correct.
21 Q Then you went to a first floor bathroom and you noted
22 again that it suffered heavy smoke damage, however,
23 there was no origin for the fire there. You further 24 stated that there was some bloody tissues located in
25 the trash can of this room?
503 1 A Yes, ma’am.
2 Q Now, were those bloody tissues still present when you
3 went in and searched around or did someone have -- 4 someone take them out already?
5 A No, we discovered those.
6 Q Then you also put - - in addition, there were number - - 7 there were a number of vodka bottles located in the
8 bathroom, all of them being empty, with the exception
9 of the one under the sink, which had a small amount of
10 liquid in it; right?
11 A Yes, ma’am.
12 Q You continue in describing -- you talk about the
13 kitchen, and you talk about the kitchen clock. Do you
14 recall this is the clock that was found in the kitchen;
15 correct?
16 A Yes, that’s correct.
17 Q And that being Exhibit 52 and 53?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Can you describe why there is a difference between
20 these two photos?
21 A To get a better photograph of the clock we removed the
22 melted. I think it was covered by a plastic cover.
23 Q And can you tell us did you make a determination as to
24 what the hands read? 25 A I didn’t. The hands were melted. I have no idea what
504 1 time it would be. I don’t know what the time was.
2 Q Do you remember if you made a notation of that in your
3 report or not?
4 A I don’t recall if I did or not. If you could refer to
5 the page?
6 Q Sure. It’s page 11 at the top. It’s the first line.
7 A Okay. Okay. It says it appeared it had been
8 malfunctioned at around 7:30.
9 Q Now, you continue talking about the kitchen that you
10 make note that you had located some notes in the waste
11 paper basket?
12 A Yes, ma’am.
13 Q It’s a pretty fair statement, and you went through all
14 of the things you could that were of interest to you?
15 A Yes, ma’a.m.
16 Q And you had been asked a question on direct examination
17 regarding this kitchen table, Exhibit 37?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And you had, I think the question was, “Do you see
20 anything of interest in regards to Exhibit 37?” And
21 you said, “Yes, there were some things on the table”?
22 A Yes.
23 Q That is of interest to you now; correct? 24 A Oh, yes.
25 Q How come it’s not mentioned in your report at all?
505 1 A It’s contained in the photo lab.
2 Q But you didn’t -- even though you took photographs of
3 other objects and described them in your report you
4 chose not to describe the kitchen table where the cards
5 were in this report?
6 That’s correct.
7 Q You talk about the doors prior to entering?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And you write down your thoughts and observations about
10 the doors?
11 A Yes, ma’am.
12 Q And you have also given us your thoughts and opinions
13 as to how a person entered and/or exited those doors on
14 the night in question?
15 A Yes, ma’ain.
16 Q And the statements that you make regarding the doors
17 was that you notice with the front main door, that
18 being the east door?
19 A The front main door?
20 Q Yes, the door that had the shoelace tied?
21 A The front door faced east. You talking about the front
22 door?
23 Q Yes. East? 24 A Yes.
25 Q You notice that it had a shoelace tied?
506 1 A On the storm door, yes. In the storm door.
2 Q You’re assuming that shoelace was tied to the handle of
3 the main door; correct?
4 A I’m not assuming that. I was told that.
5 Q I’m sorry. Strike that. You learned that through
6 other information that the shoelace was tied to the
7 main handle of the other door?
8 A That’s what I was told; yes.
9 Q Now, did you ever make a determination whether or not
10 that shoelace was tied from the inside of that house?
11 A No, I did not.
12 Q So feasibly a person, hypothetically, could have left
13 the front door and tied the two doors together on the
14 outside of the house?
15 A Are we saying after a fire has been set?
16 Q I’m just asking you a hypothetical.
17 A Hypothetically, someone may have tied it from the
18 outside.
19 Q So technically a person could have exited that house
20 using that door?
21 A Urn, I don’t believe so, not in conjunction with what
22 was occurring inside that house at that time.
23 Q And why do you say that? 24 A The door, if we’re referring to the person that set the
25 fire and murdered Sandy, exited through that particular
507 1 door and taking time to take a shoelace, tie it around
2 a storm door, tie it around an inner door and monkey in
3 two inches of space trying to shut this door, would
4 seem to me just completely unlikely and improbable that
5 they would stand on the front east side of the front
6 door in a residential area with a fire burning inside
7 that residence trying to tie this door shut. It
8 doesn’t make sense.
9 Q Have you - - have you ever performed any experiment as
10 to how long it would take to tie a shoelace in that
11 type of concoction?
12 A I would say it would take some time.
13 Q That wasn’t my question.
14 A I haven’t performed any experiments; no.
15 Q Now, you also, on your larger diagram, which is marked
16 79, you have -- you’ve made notes as to what was found.
17 For instance, you found an ashtray?
18 A Yes, ma’am.
19 Q You found cigarette box?
20 A Yes, ma’am.
21 Q Coasters?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Yellow markers, ice picks, and a TV remote? 24 A Yes.
25 Q Didn’t put the cards on that one, did you?
508 1 A No. 2 Q Had pictures of these though, right? 3 A That’s correct; yes. 4 Q You also, during the course of your investigation, 5 took - - did interviews of people; correct? 6 Yes. 7 Q And one interview that you did was Ms. Lola Cator; is 8 that correct? 9 A Yes, ma’axn. 10 Q Now, I think - - and correct me if I’m wrong - - did you 11 testify on direct examination that Lola reported - -12 Ms. Cator reported that the deadbolt was engaged? I 13 don’t know if I wrote that down correctly or not. 14 A No, the side door was -- storm door was locked. 15 Q Okay. 16 A She couldn’t get into the side door of the residence 17 storm door. 18 Q Do you have a recollection of interviewing Ms. Cator on 19 September -- I’m sorry -- March 5, 1998? 20 A Yes, I do. 21 Q Do you have a recollection writing a report in which 22 she stated - - she stated that she could not recall if 23 she unlocked the deadbolt or the push button lock on 24 the north storm door? She stated that the door was 25 locked, but she was unaware of which locking mechanism 509 1 had been engaged. Do you recall that interview? 2 A Yes, ma’am. 3 Q And that’s a fair and accurate statement of what 4 Ms. Cator told you and you wrote down? 5 A That’s what she said; yes. 6 Q As an experienced arson investigator, you make 7 determinations as to how fires start and what they’re 8 started with; correct? 9 A Yes, ma’am. 10 Q You also, if you can, try to determine the timeframe of 11 when these things occur; correct? 12 A If you can; yes, ma’am. 13 Q Were you able to determine a timeframe in this matter? 14 A No, I was not. 15 Q If you had other information, could you determine some 16 sort of timeframe? 17 A We could make some inferences, some possibilities; yes. 18 Q If hypothetically we know that a telephone call 19 finished up at 6:10 that evening, it would be fair to 20 say that the fire occurred sometime after 6:10? 21 A That’s correct. 22 Q If we know that the fire was discovered after it had 23 all burned out at 10:30 in the morning on February 11, 24 we know that it occurred sometime in that timeframe? 25 A Yes, ma’am. 510 1 Q Now, you have testified that the clock found in the 2 living room had stopped at 7:52, correct, or 7:53? 3 A 7:53, around there; yes, ma’am. 4 Q You also determined it stopped because the mechanisms 5 got covered with soot and that’s why it stopped? 6 Yes, ma’am. 7 Q If the soot was not present, that clock - - and the 8 lint - - that clock would still work; correct? 9 A That’s correct. 10 Q Because the battery had some voltage left in it? 11 A Yes, ma’am. 12 Q Because that clock stopped at 7:53. We are certain 13 that was 7:53 p.m.; correct? 14 A P.M.? 15 Q Yes. 16 A The clock didn’t refer to p.m. or a.m. 17 Q If the clock hypothetically stopped at 7:53 a.m., that 18 was because of the soot and the heat and all the other 19 problems of the house; correct? 20 A That’s correct. 21 Q If someone entered that residence at 10:30 in the 22 morning, would that person have found the walls hot 23 from the fire? 24 A I don’t know. 25 Q Would the door handle still have been hot at 10:30 in 511 1 the morning? 2 A At 10:30 in the morning? I rather deal directly with 3 this fire. And it’s not 10:30. It’s 10:59 a.m. that 4 was discovered. It’s not 10:30. My understanding it 5 was 10:59 a.m. 6 Q I think that was the time the 911 call? 7 A Okay. It was approximately around that time that it 8 was reported. 9 Q Mr. Eggum, let me ask you this. Can you, to a 10 reasonable degree of certainty as an arson 11 investigator, tell me what timeframe that fire occurred 12 in? 13 A No, I cannot. 14 Q Mr. Egguxn, there was some questions asked regarding 15 your opinion as to whether or not it was an effective 16 job? 17 A Yes, ma’azn. 18 Q And you had also discussed about your feeling that this 19 was a deceptive fire? 20 A Yes, ma’am. 21 Q And you said it was a deceptive fire because of the 22 fact that you found some cigarettes around the place? 23 A And matches and other smoking material. 24 Q Now, the matches, there were matches. Do you recall 25 where the matches were? 512 1 A There were matches throughout the residence. There was 2 some in the area of origin, some on the kitchen 3 cabinet, you know, throughout that area; yes. 4 Q There were some individual matches found on the floor; 5 correct? 6 Yes, ma’am. 7 Q Now, you know that Mrs. Maloney was a smoker, didn’t 8 you? 9 A Yes, I do. 10 Q And you had an ashtray with some cigarette butts in it; 11 correct? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And then there was - - there was a cigarette box on the 14 table? 15 A Yes, ma’am. 16 Q Now, if a person was going to go in and set what you 17 have qualified this as a deceptive fire caused by 18 smoking materials, wouldn’t everything be burned up 19 once the fire took? 20 A That would depend on the circumstances. 21 Q If -- if you say that because there was some matches 22 around and some cigarettes around, wouldn’t a house set 23 on fire and that took, a fire that took, wouldn’t that 24 disturb some of the things and cause them to 25 disintegrate? 513 1 A I have found materials involved with smoking fires that 2 remained after significant fire damage to a residence. 3 They still exist. 4 Q It could also be, is it fair to say, Mrs. Maloney 5 smoked cigarettes, and she used matches, and that’s 6 what we found around the residence? 7 A She did do that; yea. 8 Q Now, you said that one of the biggest problems with 9 this fire is the fact that there was not ventilation, 10 right? Enough ventilation? 11 A Enough ventilation, yes. 12 Q And that it was close to becoming ventilated? 13 A It was near that. Yes, ma’am. 14 Q And one of the things that you brought up was the fact 15 that the -- there was an open window? 16 A In the back bedroom, yes. 17 Q And can you describe how that was opened? You can 18 refer to your report if you need to. 19 A Okay. It was located in the master bedroom. The 20 window was opened approximately two inches, and it was 21 covered by heavy Venetian blind that was closed. 22 Q And so just even though the blind was there, if the 23 blind was gone, free air would be going in and out of 24 that master bedroom? 25 A Yes. 514 1 Q Did you find any other windows open? 2 A There was another window in the master bedroom, I 3 believe, that was open at the top very slightly, but 4 I’m not sure. There was a storm window on the other 5 side, so I don’t believe that had any, had anything --6 Q That’s not for any ventilation purpose? 7 A No. 8 Q Now, if the purpose of this was to cover up a murder 9 scene and burn down all the evidence, the arsonist 10 would want ventilation; correct? 11 A I don’t know what the arsonist would think what he 12 needed or didn’t need or she needed. I don’t know. 13 Q But ventilation certainly would have helped to destroy 14 all the evidence; right? 15 A If you understand the system clearly enough, why, sure, 16 that would be, but you’re trying to ask me what the 17 arsonist would want. I don’t know what he or she knew. 18 Q You testified that you felt that this was an effective 19 job? 20 A It was an effective job; yes. 21 Q But there was not enough ventilation? 22 A That’s correct. That’s why it went out. 23 Q And, hypothetically, if you went in and did what the 24 arsonist did in this case, you would probably want 25 ventilation; correct? 515 1 A Rather than speak hypothetically, in training 2 exercises, I have set numerous fires that are very 3 similar like this, and I, myself, have neglected to 4 provide the necessary ventilation in which for a fire 5 to properly burn. 6 ~ Well, now, let’s talk about these training techniques, 7 Mr. Eggum. Were you told to do certain things like 8 start a fire and see how it burns inside with and 9 without ventilation? 10 A Part of our job description is to conduct training 11 exercises for law enforcement agencies, and during part 12 of these training exercises, we routinely set fires in 13 residences with permission and it’s all legal. We do 14 that, to burn material in there, to allow investigators 15 to come in and make a determination on what possibly 16 would have started that fire and how it burned and 17 traveled. Do the same thing that I did here at this 18 fire. Yes, I have done that. And, yes, I have 19 found - -20 Q Mr. - - can I stop you? 21 A Yes. 22 Q You stated before when I asked you a question that I 23 will speak on my own experience and that when I have 24 done fires similar to this that I have neglected to 25 ventilate the fire; correct? 516 1 A That’s correct. 2 Q Therefore, can I - - you are insinuating that a person 3 with your experience sometimes forgets to ventilate; 4 correct? 5 A In training fires, you know you may assume that there 6 would be enough ventilation in there and that there’s 7 enough material. You know, when you set a fire and 8 you’re creating an uninhibited chain reaction, you’re 9 setting free a beast, and you can’t control it once 10 you’ve done it. It’s on its own. 11 MS. BOYLE: I just have to check with my 12 client. 13 BY MS. BOYLE: 14 Q Mr. Eggum, did you take any -- did you collect any 15 evidence on the scene? 16 A I was part of the evidence collection. I, myself, was 17 not the evidence custody officer, but, yes, I was 18 there. 19 Q Did you see anything? For instance, did you direct 20 anyone to take some matches and have them collected as 21 evidence and transport them to the crime lab? Was that 22 your job at all? 23 A Yes, ma’am. 24 Q Did you, in your report -- I think that there is 25 some - - a note that there was some matches found right
517 1 by the coffee table -- or right by the main table on 2 the counter by the main door. Do you recall that? 3 A We’re talking on the main door, and there was a 4 separation there? 5 Q Yes. 6 Yeah, there was some matches there; yes. 7 Q Do you know if you collected those and took them into 8 evidence at all? 9 A We documented with photographs. Did not collect them, 10 no. 11 MS. BOYLE: I have nothing further. 12 MR. BISKUPIC: No follow up. We ask that 13 76 and 77 be received, his resume and report, and 78 14 also, the board? 15 MS. BOYLE: I have no objection. 16 MR. BISKUPIC: 76, 77, 78. 17 THE COURT: 76, 77, and 78 are received. 18 Thank you, Mr. Eggum. You are excused. 19 (Witness is excused.)