Tuesday Volume 507 16 March 2010 No. 58

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 16 March 2010

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feel that, as the Government have a stake in a number of House of Commons such institutions, perhaps they should have taken a lot more action to curtail the amount that bankers are still Tuesday 16 March 2010 being paid. Ian Pearson: The whole House will have had The House met at half-past Two o’clock representations from constituents on the issue of bankers’ bonuses. My hon. Friend will be aware that UKFI PRAYERS manages the Government’s interests in RBS, Lloyds Banking Group, Northern Rock and Bradford & Bingley on an arm’s length basis. It is not in the interests of [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] shareholders, including the taxpayer, for banks to lose key profit-making staff, but we have to ensure an appropriate balance. As she will be aware, RBS made a commitment to pay the minimum possible, to protect the banking Oral Answers to Questions franchise, and it is in investment banking where that issue is most apparent. On behalf of the Government, UKFI took independent analysis and looked at sector TREASURY averages in coming to its conclusions, and it was entirely appropriate that it showed that due diligence.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer was asked— Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): On lending banking, has the Chancellor yet modified his Government Holdings opposition to Mr. Paul Volcker’s view, which is strongly supported by President Obama, that it is a mistake for 1. Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): What recent commercial banks to allow their depositors to run the discussions he has had with United Kingdom Financial risk of their money being handled by investment banks? Investments Ltd on its management of Government holdings in lending banks. [322185] Ian Pearson: No, I do not think that the Chancellor has changed his views on that. Indeed, he has clearly The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Ian Pearson): expressed the view to the House on a number of occasions As you will be aware, Mr. Speaker, the Chancellor of that he does not believe the causes of the current the Exchequer is at a meeting of European Finance financial crisis to have been brought about as a result of Ministers in Brussels today. However, he and the Treasury a failure to implement Glass-Steagall and split investment hold frequent discussions with United Kingdom Financial banking from ordinary commercial banking. Both types Investments Ltd on a range of topics related to the of banks have got into difficulty over the past couple of Government’s holdings in financial institutions, in line years. What is important is that we pay due attention to with the UK Financial Investment’s framework document ensuring the effective regulation of the banks. That is and investment mandate. the approach that we have adopted, which is why we have introduced recovery and resolution plans, for instance, Malcolm Bruce: Given that the Government have as part of our new legislative programme. reduced competition among high street banks, does the Minister not recognise that many small and medium-sized Budget 2009 businesses will be frustrated by an economic recovery, because they will be unable to access finance on the 2. Chris McCafferty (Calder Valley) (Lab): What terms that they need for expansion and recovery? Is it recent assessment he has made of the effect on the not the Government’s responsibility to ensure that they economy of his Department’s policies introduced in can do that, so will he do something about it rather than Budget 2009. [322186] being passive on the sidelines? The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Liam Byrne): Ian Pearson: We are certainly not being passive on the Since the Budget more than 3.5 million people have sidelines. As the House is well aware, the Government been helped off jobseeker’s allowance— have negotiated binding commitments with RBS and Lloyds Banking Group on lending to businesses, as well Mr. Speaker: Order. I think that the Chief Secretary as mortgage lending. We have taken further actions to was seeking to group this question with Question 12. help small, growing companies, through the enterprise finance guarantee, which has been a big success in Mr. Byrne: Yes,Iwas. lending to small businesses, and through intermediate lending by the European Investment Bank. We have 12. Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): What recent also seen EIB loans at cheap rates to help companies assessment he has made of the effect on the economy through the recovery, which is what we all want to see. of his Department’s policies introduced in Budget 2009. [322196] Miss Anne Begg (Aberdeen, South) (Lab): Like many hon. Members, I have probably spoken to more constituents Mr. Byrne: In the past year more than 3.5 million over recent months than I would normally, and there is people have been helped off benefits and back into still a huge amount of anger among my constituents—and, work, while more than 300,000 people have been helped I suspect, many others—about bankers’ bonuses. They to stay in their homes and more than 160,000 businesses 709 Oral Answers16 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 710 have been helped to defer more than £5 billion in taxes. Ms Sally Keeble (Northampton, North) (Lab): Does Together, those measures have helped our economy my right hon. Friend share my concern about the impact return to growth. of continuing low interest rates on people who rely on savings income, especially pensioners? What measures Chris McCafferty: Will my right hon. Friend join me to support that group were taken in the last Budget? in congratulating the partnership of Yorkshire Forward, the local authority, West Yorkshire MPs and local Mr. Byrne: Over the past year, steps have been taken businesses, which has been so successful in saving the not only to increase the basic state pension, but to Halifax brand, as well as the maximum number of jobs increase the support available through pension credit. in my constituency? Can he also tell the House what We have increased the disregard in the pensions system further he can do to support jobs in my constituency? to put more money into pensioners’ pockets, and they will also have benefited from VAT cuts over the past Mr. Byrne: I am pleased that because of the measures year which have put about £1 billion into the pockets of that we have taken over the past year, unemployment in consumers throughout the country. my hon. Friend’s constituency is not only lower than the UK average, but lower than the average for Yorkshire Mr. Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge) and the Humber. Thanks to the Government help that (Con): At a time when economic confidence is crucial to has been put in place, the partnerships to which she Britain’s recovery, the assessment of the policies in the referred have now delivered more than 350 jobs to the 2009 Budget that matters is not the Chief Secretary’s local community. We have no plans to take away that assessment or mine, but that of the international investors support, which is helping to get people back into work. who have to buy our debt and the business men who will We still provide the young person’s guarantee which invest in that recovery. Their verdict is clear, and it is helps young people to obtain jobs when they have been getting louder. It is summarised very neatly by the out of work for six months, and extra help is also European Commission’s view that the Government’s available to those aged over 25 who are in that position. plans are “not sufficiently ambitious”and that “additional fiscal tightening” is necessary. Is not the simple fact that Derek Twigg: May I stress the importance of capital the Government’s deficit reduction plan is not designed expenditure to the Merseyside and Cheshire area, and, to restore confidence in markets, not designed to kick-start in that context, the importance of a decision on the business investment and not designed in the long-term proposed Mersey gateway bridge, which will create hundreds interests in the British economy, but designed to postpone of construction jobs and many thousands of jobs thereafter? the tough decisions until the other side of a general Will my right hon. Friend talk to his colleagues in the election? Department for Transport about the need for an early decision? Mr. Byrne: The argument that the shadow Chief Secretary seeks to advance is one that he has rehearsed Mr. Byrne: I congratulate my hon. Friend on the over the past year. In his opinion, it would be right to consistency with which he has championed that project start to cut public spending now, before the recovery is over the past few years. It will make a great deal of locked in. If he is so interested in the views of business difference to the local economy: I understand that it is leaders and others, let me quote a couple. Richard worth 4,000 or 5,000 jobs to his area. As he will know, Lambert has said: the Government have brought forward some £3 billion “I think the Government is right to say that it would be a bad of capital expenditure to help fight the effects of the idea to slam on the brakes right now because the economy’s recession. I understand that the Departments for Transport still… fragile.” and for Communities and Local Government have received The Institute for Fiscal Studies has said: an inspector’s report on the bridge, and I will continue to press my colleagues for an early decision. “it doesn’t make sense to announce more tax increases or spending cuts that would take effect over the course of the coming year.” Mr. Michael Fallon (Sevenoaks) (Con): If last year’s That argument has been reinforced by the International Budget decisions were right, why did the Chief Secretary Monetary Fund. If the hon. Gentleman does not wish rule out a VAT increase last week only to rule it in again to listen to those organisations, however, perhaps he this morning? Will he clear up the confusion, and tell will listen to his own economic adviser, Alan Budd, who the British public categorically whether or not an increase has said: in VAT is being considered? “If you go too quickly, then there is a risk that the recovery will be snuffed out and we will go back into a recession. I mean, what Mr. Byrne: The hon. Gentleman has been in the do the Americans say? ‘Remember 1937.’” House long enough to know that tax decisions are I hope that the shadow Chief Secretary will heed that matters for the Chancellor, who presents them to the advice. House in both the pre-Budget report and the Budget. We will not cut support for the economy this year, Mr. Speaker: Order. May I say to both the Chief unlike the Conservative party. Once growth is locked in, Secretary and the shadow Chief Secretary that what I we will take action to halve the deficit over the next four do not want is for Back Benchers to be “snuffed out” by years. What we will not do is make the commitment excessively prolonged exchanges between the Front Benches. made this morning by the shadow Business Secretary, Mr. Hammond, I know that your second question will the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe be shorter than your first. (Mr. Clarke), to bring down the deficit to 3 per cent. by 2014-15—a step that would take another £20 billion out Mr. Hammond: Yes, Mr. Speaker, and we hope it will of public spending over the medium term. elicit a shorter reply, too. 711 Oral Answers16 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 712

The fact is that the Chief Secretary is not listening. In Mr. Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge) particular, he is not listening to the people whose (Con): The Financial Secretary told the hon. Member assessments really matter, such as Sir Martin Sorrell, for Huddersfield (Mr. Sheerman) that he would have to who says: wait for further announcements in the Budget, but why “If Labour win we may well have a sterling crisis.” does he have to wait until then when the Chief Secretary I might also mention Fitch, which says that is merrily going around ahead of the Budget telling the world there will be no tax increases? Is the purdah rule “halving the deficit over four years is frankly too slow”, now selectively applied, or is the Chief Secretary just and the CBI, which says that gaffe-prone? “the Government has no credible plan.” The truth is that whereas the Conservative party is Mr. Timms: As my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary willing to roll up its sleeves and take the tough decisions has made clear, tax announcements are made at the that are necessary for Britain’s future, Labour still has time of the Budget. Like my right hon. Friend, however, its head buried in the sand and is merely hoping that the I am very interested in what the shadow Business Secretary problem will go away. When will the Chief Secretary has been saying this morning, apparently committing start telling the British people the truth about the the Conservative party to a 3 per cent. deficit by 2014. challenges that lie ahead? Mr. Speaker: Order. The Minister is being very cheeky— Mr. Byrne: We could carry on trading quotes from anybody would think an election is on the way. The business leaders, but the International Monetary Fund, Minister does not need to preoccupy himself with the the Bank of England and respected economists such as policies of the Opposition, and I know that in a moment the chief economist of UBS have all made it clear that he will want to return to the policies of the Government. this year would be the wrong year to start making cuts. The hon. Gentleman is, I think, reaffirming the argument John McFall (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op): In made this morning by the shadow Business Secretary, recent evidence to the Treasury Committee, Lord Turner which is that another £20 billion should be cut from told us that public spending. Will the hon. Gentleman deny that “the tax deductibility of interest is creating a bias in the tax today? [Interruption.] Will he issue a statement denying system”. that today? It appears that the shadow Chancellor and That bias is towards debt, rather than equity. For the the shadow Business Secretary are now auditioning for sake of all manufacturing industry, is it not time that we the same job, but the problem is that they are using a had a real debate on this issue, so that we correct the tax different script. system in favour of people who are involved in manufacturing and creating jobs in the country? Small Manufacturing Business Mr. Timms: My right hon. Friend is right. We will 3. Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): need to reflect on this, but I think that he will agree that Whether he plans to amend the fiscal environment for it would be a mistake to make changes now that undermine small manufacturing businesses to facilitate their the incentive to invest in manufacturing. That is what growth. [322187] the Conservative party is proposing, however. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen Budget Deficit Timms): The annual investment allowance of £50,000 is particularly helpful for small manufacturing businesses. The business payment support service allows firms with 4. Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): What recent cash-flow difficulties to spread tax payments over a estimate he has made of the current and future level of period. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor will set out the Budget deficit; and if he will make a statement. our plans in his Budget statement next week. [322188]

Mr. Sheerman: Is my right hon. Friend aware that The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Liam Byrne): many businesses, such as manufacturing businesses in With your permission, Mr. Speaker, I will answer Yorkshire and especially Huddersfield, very much value Questions 4 and 23 together. The Chancellor will provide the range of incentives that they have, particularly the an update on the Government’s— research and development tax credits? Does he also understand that they are very worried? One business Mr. Speaker: Order. Far be it from me to rain on the man said that he could not sleep at night because of Chief Secretary’s parade, but I have received no such thoughts of a naive new Chancellor sweeping all this request, and I regard both the request and its timing as away. deeply irregular. I think we will treat the questions separately. Mr. Timms: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is a great deal of concern among manufacturers about Mr. Byrne: I am very grateful for your judgment, the Conservative party’s proposals. I agree with the Mr. Speaker; I shall answer question 4 directly. Engineering Employers Federation, which has described The Chancellor will provide an update on the the proposals as a disaster for manufacturers. The Institute Government’s fiscal position, including forecasts for for Fiscal Studies said that the proposals public finance, at the Budget. The Fiscal Responsibility “would help companies that make large profits with little investment, Act 2010 puts a legal obligation on the Government to at the expense of businesses that are investing heavily in the UK”. more than halve the deficit over four years and have What we should be doing is supporting investment. debt falling by 2015-16. 713 Oral Answers16 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 714

Stephen Hammond: The Government’s fiscal plans Dr. Cable: Does this European report not also relate have been criticised by the Governor of the Bank of to a deeper argument within Europe about whether England and the European Commission in the past recovery should be led by countries such as Germany week. A few moments ago, in response to my hon. widening their deficit—that is the French argument—or Friend the Member for Sevenoaks (Mr. Fallon), the by the weaker countries, such as Greece, Ireland, Italy, Chief Secretary said that this was the wrong year to Spain and probably Britain, taking action on their make cuts. Last week, the Chief Secretary told us that deficits? Where do the Government stand on that debate? there was no need for tax rises, but this week he has changed his mind. Following the Chancellor’s reprimand Mr. Byrne: We are very clear that what is in the of him, is he now going to tell us that this is the right interests of the United Kingdom economy—I believe year and that this Government will be increasing taxes that the hon. Gentleman has made this argument before—is this year? rebalancing our economy in the years to come and having an investment and export-led recovery. No one Mr. Byrne: We were clear in the pre-Budget report country can secure that policy acting on its own, which about our belief that £19 billion-worth of tax increases is why international trade reform is part and parcel of need to be secured over the next few years. We have not our approach to the agenda for the G20 over the year to caveated our language with the kind of dissembling that come. The truth is that if American savers carry on we have seen in some quarters about whether proposals saving at today’s rates we will not be able to rely on on national insurance contributions will be reversed or them to drive growth in the global economy in the way implemented. Alongside those proposals, we have said that they have done in the past. that £38 billion-worth of cuts and efficiency savings also need to be secured. We have been clear about our Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Will my right plans to halve the deficit—I hope that the Conservative hon. Friend confirm that there could not be a more party will match that clarity. bizarre sight than the Tory Front-Bench team joining unelected European Commissioners to call on the British Mr. Parmjit Dhanda (Gloucester) (Lab): At a time Government to carry out a policy of creating mass when we need to make savings, is my right hon. Friend unemployment by postponing the attempt to halve the aware that Gloucestershire has seven local authorities? deficit in four years? And the Member for the Liberal There are too many councillors and too many local party ought to know better than to join these unelected authorities, so in the run-up to the Budget will he people who want to throw workers on the scrap heap. consider allowing us to bring in unitary authorities in places such as Gloucestershire? We could save £16 million Mr. Byrne: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Over a year by reducing the number of authorities from the past year, 22 million people have benefited from tax seven to two, by cutting the number of councillors and cuts because of measures we have introduced. Up to by reducing the amount of duplication. If we took a 500,000 jobs have been protected, more than 160,000 similar approach across the country, we could save half businesses have been helped with their cash flow and a billion pounds a year. 120,000 jobs have been provided through the future jobs fund. That has all been possible because of the measures that we took over the course of the past year. Mr. Byrne: I will listen carefully to all sensible proposals It would have been impossible to sustain those steps to save money. had we followed the advice of the Opposition.

Dr. Vincent Cable (Twickenham) (LD): Is the Minister Mr. David Gauke (South-West Hertfordshire) (Con): not mildly embarrassed that the Government claimed Given that the Chief Secretary’s pronouncements on to be leading the international debate on recovery from tax policy last Thursday were overruled by the Chancellor the financial crisis but have now been chastised by the on Sunday, will the Chief Secretary tell the House European Commission for a lack of clarity in their whether he speaks on these matters with the authority plans for tackling the fiscal deficit? Although the of the Chancellor, or is the relationship between the Government have been clear about when to make cuts Chief Secretary and the Chancellor as dysfunctional as and how rapidly to do so, they have been massively the relationship between the Chancellor and the Prime unclear about what they propose to cut—when are we Minister? going to hear that? Mr. Byrne: What a non-question. What I did last Mr. Byrne: I think that the European Commission week was set out very clearly proposals for how, over made the wrong decision by saying to the United Kingdom the next four years, we will increase taxes by about that we should reduce the deficit to 3 per cent. of GDP £19 billion. They are difficult decisions that no Chancellor by 2014-15. That would entail a cut of well above wants to implement, but none the less they are decisions £20 billion in public spending or commensurate tax that we have faced up to. Alongside that, we have said increases. In the pre-Budget report we set out deliberately that we will reduce spending on day-to-day public services, how we would save £20 billion of current spending over but we will not take precipitate action as proposed by the next four years: £4.8 billion of that would come the Opposition. We will lock in the recovery, not put it through savings on pay and pensions; there would be at risk, as proposed by the Opposition. £5 billion of cuts to departmental expenditure limits; and £11 billion of it would come through the reorganisation Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North) (Lab): If John Maynard of Whitehall and doing things more efficiently in the Keynes were alive today, he would agree absolutely with future. We set that out clearly in chapter 6 of the my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) pre-Budget report. and would have contempt for the views of the Opposition. 715 Oral Answers16 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 716

May I suggest to my right hon. Friend that cutting now Mr. Speaker: Order. We have got the thrust of the would be about as intelligent as burning witches in the question, but councils are not the responsibility of the middle ages? Minister.

Mr. Byrne: Not just my hon. Friends agree with our Sarah McCarthy-Fry: I certainly agree with my hon. approach. My hon. Friend and others may convey it in Friend that there are frustrating Conservative councils. different language, but that approach is supported not If the Crown Estate is involved in that decision, I will be only by the International Monetary Fund but by the more than happy to raise it at my meeting. Institute for Fiscal Studies, UBS, the CBI, two Nobel economists, the hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) Value of Sterling —on occasion—and the independent fiscal forecaster for the Conservative party, Sir Alan Budd. 6. Mr. Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con): Crown Estate Commissioners What assessment he has made of the effects on the economy of recent changes in the value of sterling. 5. Mr. Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) [322190] (LD): What recent assessment he has made of the performance of the Crown Estate commissioners; and The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Ian Pearson): if he will make a statement. [322189] As stated in the previous pre-Budget report, the depreciation of sterling is expected to help contribute to recovery in The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Sarah the UK economy. It should give a competitive edge to McCarthy-Fry): The Crown Estate has delivered good UK exporters, and encourage UK consumers to switch financial returns over the past 10 years, with capital up to domestically produced goods and services. 66 per cent. and revenue paid to the Exchequer up 70 per cent., reaching £226 million in the last full Mr. Crabb: I thank the Minister for that reply. However, financial year. Over the past 10 years, the value of the given the faith that Ministers have placed in a weak portfolio has increased by £2.3 billion and the Crown sterling supporting export growth, does the drop in the Estate has paid a total of £1.8 billion to the Exchequer. previous quarter’s export figures not demonstrate again both the complacency of Ministers about the recovery, Mr. Carmichael: The Minister is—I hope—aware of and the extent of the damage that has been done to the the announcement made this morning by the Crown UK’s manufacturing and export base under this Estate on licensing sea bed areas around Orkney and Government? the north of Scotland for the development of marine renewables. May I tell her, however, that many in the renewables industry, although they welcome the Ian Pearson: We are certainly not complacent about announcement, have serious concerns about the process the recovery. That is why we have taken the fiscal that the Crown Estate has used in getting to this point? judgments that we have taken, and why we have said Will she use the powers that are given to her in the explicitly that we need to make sure that we lock in the Crown Estate Act 1961 to have a look at what has been recovery. We have taken actions to help exporters through done to ensure that the Crown Estate becomes a facilitator UK Trade and Investment, which helps some 20,000 rather than a hindrance in the development of green exporters every year. I happen to believe that there is renewables? more to be done: perhaps it is because I come from one of the UK’s manufacturing heartlands that I believe Sarah McCarthy-Fry: I have to disagree with the hon. that we will not have a successful economic future Gentleman; I do not think that the Crown Estate is a unless we export goods and services. So, yes, I think that hindrance. I have had it from the Crown Estate that it there is more to be done, but this Government have a wishes to be involved in that process and recognises the good record in supporting UK exporters. importance of the sea bed around Scotland. I am having a meeting with the Crown Estate commissioners Mr. Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): Is not in the next couple of weeks and I intend to take various the implication of the fact that a more competitive issues to that meeting, including the marine issues to do exchange rate has not produced greater exports that we with renewable energy in Scotland and other matters may need to do more to reflate the world economy? that have been raised by hon. Members. Ian Pearson: Pretty much any economist will say that Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab): This question there is a time lag between depreciation occurring in an reminds me of how, soon after I was elected, I had to do economy and its visible effects in both exports and battle with the Crown Estate commissioners on the import substitution. I am confident that the normal foreshore of the Thames for putting in jeopardy the laws of economics still apply to the UK and the global 1,000-year-old ferry route between Tilbury and Gravesend. economy. Because of the financial crisis that has hit the It is rather sad that, as I come to the end of my life in world economy, I have concerns about the effectiveness the House of Commons, that ferry is again in jeopardy. of banks as a transmission mechanism for supporting I do not know to what extent the Crown Estate growth in our exporters and businesses. However, I have commissioners are involved, but I ask my hon. Friend every reason to believe that the exchange rate as it is will to look into that in her discussions. The real problem is help UK firms. that work, employment and school opportunities for my folk are being put in jeopardy by the Conservative Mr. Speaker: Order. We really must have sharper borough council, which wants to cut the subsidy. That questions and answers. Progress today is lamentably was not mentioned to the hon. Member for— slow and it needs to get better. 717 Oral Answers16 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 718

Mr. Greg Hands (Hammersmith and Fulham) (Con): repairing listed buildings. Many communities up and Every time that this discredited Government make any down the country are trying to keep their churches in kind of recovery, sterling falls sharply. That is due to good repair, and either the scheme has to be extended their lack of credibility when it comes to the deficit. or the Government must restore heritage as part of Does the Minister think that it helps the Government’s national lottery funding. Does he agree that we cannot credibility with the markets and sterling for the Chief expect this important element of our built heritage to Secretary to make promises on tax that he has to retract be done on thin air? five days later? Mr. Timms: The hon. Gentleman raises an important Ian Pearson: The hon. Gentleman must have been point. This scheme has now generated some £100 million reading one of the reports in The Times today, which for 10,000 buildings since it was introduced in 2001. We said that sterling was on the slide as a result of recent have recognised that listed churches are a special case. announcements. That might have been true between Our long-term aim is that a lower rate of VAT should be 6 am and 11.40, but then it changed round, and apart agreed at European level for instances of that kind, but from a blip at about 7.40 to 8 o’clock this morning, the in the meantime the joint English Heritage/Heritage pound has gone up again. It has been within a trading Lottery Fund scheme is providing £25 million a year. range for a considerable period of time. We will look at that particular scheme again in the spending review. Capital Allowances Tax Credits 7. Mr. Ken Purchase (Wolverhampton, North-East) (Lab/Co-op): What recent representations he has received 9. Jessica Morden (Newport, East) (Lab): What recent from businesses on the level of capital allowances. assessment he has made of the effect on the economy of [322191] the operation of tax credits. [322193]

The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Sarah 11. Tony Lloyd (Manchester, Central) (Lab): What McCarthy-Fry): We receive representations from a number recent assessment he has made of the effect on the of public and private sector organisations as part of our economy of the operation of tax credits. [322195] policy development and delivery. More than 500,000 The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen businesses that invest are able to claim tax relief on their Timms): Tax credits have supported the economy in the qualifying investment expenditure under the capital downturn, responding quickly when household income allowances regime. In 2010-11, it is estimated that falls. Last October, 400,000 households whose income £62 billion of capital expenditure investment will be had fallen since the start of the year were receiving, on made and supported by these allowances. average, £37 a week more in tax credits.

Mr. Purchase: Does my hon. Friend recall that the Jessica Morden: Tax credits have helped more than polices of the Conservative Government of the 1980s 9,000 families in my constituency by supporting them and 1990s meant that it was far more tax-efficient to through difficult times and helping to reduce child distribute what should have been retained profits for poverty. Will the Minister reaffirm his commitment to investment than to retool and re-kit our industry? That that policy, in contrast to the two main Opposition was especially true in the west midlands, where we lost a parties, which are looking to cut tax credits for those on great deal in terms of modernisation. Will she tell us very modest incomes? this afternoon that the policy of this Labour Government, which encourages investment, will continue? Mr. Timms: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I can reaffirm our commitment to the policy. Under the last Sarah McCarthy-Fry: I assure my hon. Friend that Government, child poverty more than doubled, to the we believe that investment is crucial for the UK economy’s highest rate in Europe. We have been able to reverse that long-term success. That is why we acted to support rise, and indeed reduce the number of children below business investment during the recession by temporarily the poverty line by 500,000 on the most recent data. doubling the main rate of capital allowance. We support I can confirm to my hon. Friend that we will maintain capital allowances—unlike the Opposition, who wish to that policy. cut allowances for investment. Tony Lloyd: My right hon. Friend makes an important Listed Places of Worship (Grants) point about the impact of tax credits on family poverty. Can he give any guarantees that if there were to be a 8. Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): What plans he has change in political fortunes, those tax credits would still for the future of the listed places of worship grants go into the pockets of families in need? scheme; and if he will make a statement. [322192] Mr. Timms: Yes. Our view is that the tax credit system The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen has played a very important role in supporting the Timms): The Government’s plans for the listed places of economy, particularly in the past year, when a lot of worship scheme beyond 31 March next year will be people have seen their income fall—for example, because announced in the spending review later in the year. their hours have been reduced—and it has been possible for their tax credits to increase very quickly in response. Tony Baldry: I hope that it will be good news. The I noticed that in my hon. Friend’s constituency more Minister will know that the scheme involves money than 500 families have benefited, by an average of just given to help defray the cost of value added tax on over £41. 719 Oral Answers16 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 720

Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I wonder Mr. Byrne: Experience suggests that general national whether the Minister can tell the House how many insurance cuts and wage support have very limited people have been in his constituency surgery in tears because impact on employment. Of course, taking those national of the way in which the tax credit system operates. insurance contributions out of the forward programme for tax would leave a £7 billion hole in the tax base. The Mr. Timms: I do not think that I have had people in Conservative party has yet to come clean with the tears over that in my constituency surgery. The hon. public about how it intends to fill that gap. Gentleman might be pleased to note that in April to December 2009 the number of complaints about the operation of the tax credit system was 40 per cent. Credit Rating down on the year before, so we are making good progress. 13. Alistair Burt (North-East Bedfordshire) (Con): Youth Employment What recent representations he has received from credit rating agencies on the UK’s triple A rating. [322197] 10. Andrew Stunell (Hazel Grove) (LD): If he will bring forward proposals for fiscal measures to encourage The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Ian Pearson): businesses to employ young people. [322194] As the House would expect, Treasury Ministers and officials have meetings with a wide variety of organisations. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Liam Byrne): The Government have introduced a significant package of support to help young people into work quickly. This Alistair Burt: I thank the Minister for his conclusive includes the £1.3 billion young person’s guarantee of a answer. With a Budget deficit higher than that of the job, and up to £1,000 for businesses that recruit unemployed Greeks, is it not a matter of some embarrassment to the young people. Government that after 13 years of their being responsible for the economy, serious figures, from the CBI, to the Andrew Stunell: In Stockport, more than 4,000 young Bank of England, to credit rating agencies, are raising people are not in education, employment or training questions about this country’s credit rating in the manner and many employers are ready to help them. Is it not of some disreputable pyramid scheme salesman who time for the Chancellor to increase his support for has finally been caught out? employers, so that they can give the young people in my constituency the break and the start that they need? Ian Pearson: I do not think that the hon. Gentleman’s words are representative of how a vast majority of Mr. Byrne: I will take that as another Budget submission, informed commentators look at these issues. They certainly but just to be clear with the hon. Gentleman, the young are not representative of the credit rating agencies, all of person’s guarantee is already providing jobs and work which recognise the UK’s strong funding flexibility. experience and training for those aged 16 to 24 who They continue to judge the UK as having the highest have been out of work for six months. From April this possible sovereign credit rating. I point out to him that year, if a young person has been out of work for average debt maturity in the UK is 13.5 years, which is 10 months, they need actually to take that job or that twice that in France, Germany and Italy, and is more training opportunity, or the community service on offer. than three times that in the United States. We have already provided access to 120,000 jobs for young people through the future jobs fund, paid at the Mr. Gordon Prentice (Pendle) (Lab): Is it not the case national minimum wage, together with 120,000 pre- that the credit rating agencies take account of the real employment training places. economy, that Britain is the world’s sixth-largest exporter of manufactured goods and the world’s second-largest Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): Will my right exporter of services, and that there is no possibility of hon. Friend ensure that special help is given to those the credit rating agencies downgrading our rating? young people recovering from either mental health problems or addiction difficulties, given that there seems to be a Ian Pearson: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to disproportionately high number of such people among point to the strength of the UK as a manufacturing the young unemployed? nation and our strength in terms of exporting services. Rather than speculate about credit ratings when it is Mr. Byrne: We can, and partly because of the extra very clear from all that the credit rating agencies have resources that have been put in place in jobcentres, said that there is currently no risk to the UK’s credit many thousands more people have been added to the rating, what we should be focusing on is a strategy for strength of that particular front line. That obviously growth and jobs for the future. We will hear more about increases the personalisation of the service that jobcentres that next week. can offer, and it is part of the reason that 3.5 million people have been helped off jobseeker’s allowance and into jobs over the past year. Government Holdings (RBS) Mr. Mark Hoban (Fareham) (Con): Last week, before he was forced to make his humiliating climbdown on 14. Mr. Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) tax increases, the Chief Secretary was boasting about (Lab): What recent discussions he has had with UK the difficult decision to increase national insurance. Financial Investments Ltd on its management of the Will he tell the House what the impact of that difficult Government holding in the Royal Bank of Scotland. decision would be on unemployment? [322198] 721 Oral Answers16 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 722

The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Ian Pearson): Ian Pearson: My right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary The Treasury holds frequent discussions with UK Financial says that the hon. Gentleman might have noticed the Investments on a range of topics related to the rise of India and China over the past 10 to 15 years, Government’s holdings in RBS, in line with the investment which probably explains why the UK has slipped down framework and investment mandate. to being the sixth largest manufacturing nation in the world. However, we are still the second largest exporter Mr. Clarke: Will my hon. Friend accept that it is very of services, and our manufacturing performance is strong. difficult for me to convey the absolute anger of a I believe that it will become stronger over the next number of my constituents, especially small businesses, 12 months to two years, and a competitive exchange many of which have been forced to the wall because of rate will help a great deal. the lending policies of those institutions? Will he accept that that is all the more repugnant given that RBS Topical Questions found £1 million to pay 100 executive bonuses last year? Clearly, something has to be done. T1. [322210] Mr. Mark Lancaster (North-East Milton Keynes) (Con): If he will make a statement on his Ian Pearson: My right hon. Friend will be aware of departmental responsibilities. my comments on bonuses and what RBS has said on the matter. It is certainly the case that some businesses The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Liam Byrne): have, sadly, gone to the wall as a result of the global The Treasury’s responsibilities remain as the Chancellor recession. The Government have always been consistent has set out on previous occasions. in pressing to make sure that lending continues in the UK economy. He might be aware that RBS recently Mr. Lancaster: I appreciate that the Chief Secretary announced a £1 billion manufacturing fund for providing is pretty embarrassed about his U-turn this morning. flexible long-term loans to businesses. I am sure that Last week, he ruled out VAT increases, presumably to that will be welcomed by businesses in Scotland and curry favour with the Prime Minister and undermine throughout the UK given RBS’s role right through the the Chancellor, so can he simply explain to the House UK economy. when and why he changed his mind?

Mr. William Cash (Stone) (Con): Does the Minister Mr. Byrne: I have merely set out the statement made accept that the question of the RBS debt is central to by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor at the pre-Budget the question of public sector debt generally? Does he report about how we plan to halve the deficit over the disagree with the Office for National Statistics that next four years by raising taxes by £19 billion. We will the total amount of debt is between £2.65 trillion and do so in a fair way, unlike the Opposition, if they ever £3.15 trillion, or between 185 and 215 per cent. of gross get into power, by ensuring that half the taxes that we domestic product when financial sector interventions raise fall on the shoulders of the top 5 per cent. of are included? earners. Alongside that, we will cut capital and current spending by £38 billion. In that way, we will halve the Ian Pearson: I do not have the figures from the ONS deficit over four years, as set out by the Fiscal Responsibility to hand, but I have no reason to doubt the hon. Gentleman. Act 2010. What we will not do is pursue the Opposition’s It is established practice when reporting on Government approach, which is to introduce cuts now and put the accounts to exclude financial interventions in RBS and economy into a double-dip recession. We will not follow Lloyds Banking Group. In the same way, the German the approach set out by the shadow Business Secretary Federal Government tend to exclude KfW and their this morning by reducing our deficit to 3 per cent. of investments in banks. I do not think that anything we GDP in 2014-15, because that would require taking out are doing is particularly unusual and, as we have discussed something like an extra £20 billion to £30 billion of before, there are different methods of accounting, which public spending—a strategy that has not been renounced are at issue. I do not think, however, that party politics by the Opposition Front Bench this afternoon. should be part of that. We are clear and transparent about the overall financial situation. Mr. Speaker: As right hon. and hon. Members know, topical questions and answers are supposed to be shorter— Economic Growth Forecasts a fine example, I know, will now be provided by Mrs. Madeleine Moon. 15. Andrew Selous (South-West Bedfordshire) (Con): What recent discussions he has had with the Prime T3. [322212] Mrs. Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab): Minister on forecasts for economic growth. [322199] Low interest rates on savings in the UK can encourage people who receive what appear to be high-interest The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Ian Pearson): offers by telephone, e-mail or letter to invest in US I am on a roll. The Chancellor and the Prime Minister share scams—so-called boiler scams. How can we alert have regular discussions on a range of issues, including the public to those scams so that they avoid those scam the prospects for the UK economy. savers who are stealing our investors’ money?

Andrew Selous: It would be good if the country was The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Ian Pearson): on a roll, too. Exports are absolutely vital for our future Boiler room scams are completely unacceptable. It is economic growth, so why during the Government’s the responsibility of the Financial Services Authority to stewardship has the UK’s share of world trade fallen by take action in this area, and it has increased its surveillance 31 per cent., when Germany’s has gone up by 5 per capacity quite substantially. My hon. Friend is right to cent.? make the point about the importance of savers. People 723 Oral Answers16 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 724 need to have confidence in the savings products in T6. [322215] Alistair Burt (North-East Bedfordshire) which they invest, and it is the responsibility of the (Con): A few moments ago the Economic Secretary regulatory authorities to ensure that that confidence is recognised that the laws of economics apply to the not misplaced. Government. As one of the final actions here of a decent and likeable Minister, would he dare take that T2. [322211] Mr. Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) knowledge to his Prime Minister, who some years ago (Con): Will Ministers promise to revise the business claimed to have abolished boom and bust and therefore rate valuation model for rural filling stations, many of have the laws of economics apply to a higher power? which are seeing increases in rates of more than 300 per cent. this year, putting many of them out of business as Ian Pearson: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind a result? words, which are typically generous of him. I do not think the Prime Minister needs any lectures in economics. Ian Pearson: The Valuation Office Agency is directly He was an outstanding Chancellor of the Exchequer responsible for the matter. For the past two and a half and is a very effective Prime Minister, as I am sure the years it has been involved in discussions with representatives Opposition will recognise in the course of the upcoming from the industry and their agents. There must come a election campaign. I will happily watch it from the time when negotiations stop. There are three aspects of sidelines. the model. They are not exceptional, but I agree that some of the rating valuations appear to be very high. Dr. Brian Iddon (Bolton, South-East) (Lab): Why, in The VOA continues to work on the matter. the current economic climate, do we allow the salaries of senior managers in the public sector, such as vice- T5. [322214] Tony Lloyd (Manchester, Central) (Lab): chancellors of universities, chief executives of local If Ministers accepted the advice of the shadow authorities and chief executives of housing associations, Business Secretary and cut a further £20 billion to to rise way above the rate of inflation, while those same £30 billion from the economy, what would be the cost managers are encouraged to keep the salaries of the in lost output, employment and services, and who public sector workers whom they manage at a very would pay that cost? low level? Mr. Byrne rose— Mr. Byrne: We have repaired the salaries of public service workers in this country. Over the past decade, Mr. Speaker: Order. I know the Chief Secretary will public sector wages have risen by about 25 per cent., but be well aware, because he is a clever fellow, that the at a time like this we think it is important that senior responsibility of the Government does not extend at leaders in the public sector show an example, which is Question Time to the costing of the policies of other why, in our evidence to the Senior Salaries Review parties, so I know he will not comment on that. Body, we recommended a pay rise of 0 per cent. That was the rise that we implemented across the board Mr. Byrne: If I were asked to take £25 billion out of last week. public spending, I would merely point out that that would involve halving the education budget or increasing T7. [322216] Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold) VAT to 23 per cent. (Con): Do the Government accept that the staggering rise of 35 per cent. in tax and duty on wine and spirits T4. [322213] Mr. Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con): has had any connection with the loss of 25,500 jobs, Does the Chief Secretary accept the reproach from the and 2,000 jobs in that sector? What plans do the European Commission that the plans for deficit cutting Government have to help that important sector of the in this country are unambitious? Which of his various economy? views on VAT were designed to address it? The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Sarah Mr. Byrne: I said this morning that we think the McCarthy-Fry): I do not want to pre-empt any European Commission is wrong to say that we should announcements that will be made by my right hon. be trying to reduce our deficit to 3 per cent. of GDP by Friend the Chancellor in the Budget next week. We 2014-15, which is the timetable proposed by the recognise that alcohol duties play an important part in Commission. I look forward to members of the shadow fiscal consolidation, but we also recognise that the Front-Bench team confirming that that is their position, alcohol industry creates many jobs. We will get that too. balance right. Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): What progress is being Hugh Bayley (City of York) (Lab): When the time made with the G20 in making the international banking comes for the Government to sell off their shareholdings industry more responsible by introducing such measures in the banks that they rescued last year, what steps will as a Tobin tax? they take to ensure that the taxpayer gets best value for money? The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen Timms): I welcome the campaign for the Robin Hood Ian Pearson: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to tax, as it has been described, for the energy that it has raise that as an issue. The Government have made generated and the interest in this important area. Any substantial investments in institutions such as Royal changes in that direction would need to be made on a Bank of Scotland, Lloyds Banking Group, Bradford & global basis, not just on a UK basis, and the IMF will Bingley and Northern Rock, and we need to ensure that look at that option with others to see how the balance we get best value for the taxpayer. We will not be giving of risk and reward between the banks and taxpayers these away, and it is the responsibility of UK Financial can be changed for the future. Investments to manage the Government’s interests in 725 Oral Answers16 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 726 these matters. We do not want to own these for the long are not the only way to reduce the deficit. We could, for term. We do want to make sure that they go back into example, raise the basic rate of income tax, not to as the private sector. But it has to be done at a price that much as it was under Mrs. Thatcher, but by a penny works for the taxpayer. or two.

T8. [322217] Andrew George (St. Ives) (LD): For the Mr. Timms: Our view is that those with the highest purpose of furnished holiday letting rules, will the incomes should bear the largest share of the burden of Minister please explain why it is that if a holiday letting consolidation. That is the reason we have announced provider is providing a static boat, they are deemed to the introduction of the 50p rate of income tax on the be trading, if they are providing a static caravan, they highest incomes, and the restriction of personal allowances may or may not be trading, but if they are providing a also for people with high incomes. We think that that is chalet, they are deemed definitely not to be trading, the right place for the consolidation to start. very much to the detriment of their future business? T10. [322219] Andrew Stunell (Hazel Grove) (LD): Mr. Timms: These matters are the result of lengthy Does the Chancellor agree that we now need a application of the law. We have said that the current dangerous banks Act, with owners who cannot control concession, which applies only to freehold holiday lets them refused permission to maintain them? in the UK, may not be consistent with European law and therefore we will withdraw the concession from Ian Pearson: That just shows what would happen if 2011. But the definitions are very well established and the Liberals held the balance of power in a future familiar in tax law. Parliament.

Miss Anne Begg (Aberdeen, South) (Lab): The Mr. James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): The Chief announcement recently by the Treasury to extend the Secretary to the Treasury referred to the budget deficit. offshore new field allowance to developments west of Is the UK’s budget deficit as a proportion of GDP Shetland, will, I hope, allow the Laggan-Tormore higher or lower than that of Greece? development to go ahead. Has my hon. Friend worked out how much the development of the west of Shetland Mr. Byrne: We have the highest budget deficit, pretty province could be worth to the British economy in the much, in the G7, but the reason why we have a high years that follow? budget deficit is that we chose to act to protect jobs, to protect homes and to protect businesses over the course Sarah McCarthy-Fry: We certainly wish to assist in of the past year. As the International Monetary Fund the development of fields where it is more difficult to has recognised, the reason why we had that flexibility to get out the natural resources, not only for the security of act was that we went into the recession with the lowest supply for the UK but for the benefit of the whole debt of any country in the G7 apart from Canada. economy. I do not have the exact figure to hand, but I will be more than happy to write to my hon. Friend. Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York) (Con): The Minister prays in aid EU legislation to change the basis of T9. [322218] Richard Ottaway (Croydon, South) (Con): furnished lettings. Will it apply to French gîtes as well? When the Chief Secretary said last week: Mr. Timms: The proposal that we have announced is “We don’t see a need to raise VAT”, to withdraw the concession, so it would not apply to what exactly did he mean by that? furnished holiday lets outside or inside the UK.

Mr. Byrne: At the risk of repeating myself, we said Mr. Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD): Last that over the next four years we will halve the deficit—we week Sutton council granted planning permission for a have not seen a plan as clear as that from the Conservative new patient wing to be built at St. Helier hospital, party—and we said that we would do that in a fair way. removing the last obstacle to Treasury approval for the We said that in part we would need to raise taxes, and necessary investment. Will the Minister today give my we set out very clearly how £19 billion of taxes needs to constituents and NHS workers the good news that secured, alongside spending cuts. I hope that during the Treasury approval is coming and coming very soon? next week or two we will see a plan of equal clarity from the Conservatives, and I hope that as part of that plan Mr. Byrne: I thank the hon. Gentleman and my hon. they will renounce the proposal that the shadow Business Friend the Member for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain Secretary set out this morning to take another £29 billion McDonagh) for the consistent way in which they have out of public spending by 2014. championed the need for a new hospital in their area. The hon. Gentleman knows that I am in close discussion Mr. Chris Mullin (Sunderland, South) (Lab): I put it with the Secretary of State for Health, and we hope to to my right hon. Friends that cuts in public spending make an announcement on that matter shortly. 727 16 MARCH 2010 British Airways Strike 728

British Airways Strike and, rather than trying to encourage both sides to reach a resolution of the dispute in a calm and less emotive Mr. Speaker: Before I call Theresa Villiers to ask the manner, one party is seeking to politicise what is an urgent question, I should inform the House that an industrial dispute. I urge both sides of the dispute to appeal has been lodged in the court case related to the start talking again to try to reach a settlement, so that British Airways strike action. This matter therefore falls the thousands of passengers who would otherwise be within our sub judice resolution. I have exercised my inconvenienced will not be. I would have hoped that discretion to allow this matter of public importance to there would have been agreement around the Chamber be discussed, because I do not consider that there is a on that wish; given that an election is imminent, I am substantial risk of prejudicing the court proceedings. afraid that that has not been the case.

Norman Baker (Lewes) (LD): I am disappointed that 3.31 pm British Airways and the Unite union are behaving like Mrs. Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con) (Urgent two badly behaved children and seem to be paying little Question): To ask the Minister of State for Transport if attention to the needs of their passengers; macho he will make a statement on the current situation relating management from BA and intransigence from the union to the BA strike. help nobody. May I ask the Minister in particular what steps he The Minister of State, Department for Transport has been taking since November, when the dispute first (Mr. Sadiq Khan): Passengers will be seriously appeared imminent, to try to stop it occurring? Clearly, inconvenienced if a strike goes ahead. The Prime Minister the strike has had a long period of notice. We could and my right hon. and noble Friend the Secretary of legitimately expect the Government to have taken action State for Transport have both urged the union to call off to try to prevent our reaching the stage that we have got the strike and both sides to seek to reach an agreement. to now. Without any clear indication of what action has However, British Airways is a private company, and the been taken, the Minister will understand why some feel resolution of the dispute is a matter for the company that there has been some influence from the trade and its staff. The Government have no powers to impose unions. a settlement. May I ask the Minister about compensation for passengers who are not able to get their flights but will Mrs. Villiers: Since before Christmas the Conservatives nevertheless be significantly out of pocket—through have been urging Unite to cancel the strike, which will holiday tours that they have booked, for example? Will inflict huge misery on passengers and serious damage there be any compensation for them, from the airline or on BA. Why did it take the Prime Minister so long to elsewhere? condemn the strike? Has the Prime Minister spoken directly to Unite officials to urge them to call off the Does the Minister believe that when they voted for strike? Will the Minister admit that Labour accepted industrial action, the union’s members understood that £300,000 from Unite on the very same day that the they were voting for seven days or more of such action, Christmas strike dates were announced; and that the or did they think, as many appear to have done, that it party was able to get its accounts signed off in 2008 was a one-day strike? only after the union gave a written guarantee of future Lastly, what further steps does the Minister intend to funding? How can the Government stand up for the take now to knock heads together? Would it not be interests of passengers when one quarter of Labour’s sensible for the BA offer to be retabled now—if necessary, funding comes from the— at the same time as Unite withdraws its strike action, as it ought to do immediately? Mr. Speaker: Order. I am genuinely sorry to interrupt the hon. Lady, but there is for parliamentary purposes a Mr. Khan: As ever, I thank the hon. Gentleman for distinction between the Labour party on the one hand his questions. Ministers have been in close contact with and the Government on the other, and it is in relation to all parties from the outset and continue to be so. It the responsibilities of the Government that she must would be unhelpful to give a running commentary on focus her remarks and questions. I know that that is the steps taken to try to resolve the matter. What is what she will now do. important is that there is willingness in some parts of the Chamber for there to be a resolution; clearly, however, Mrs. Villiers: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister join it is in some parties’ interests for the dispute to carry on. me in urging cabin crew to work despite the call for strike action? Will he ensure that the Government are It is important that BA should provide as much going to stand up to the unions? How can Labour information as possible to the thousands of passengers propose to do that when one quarter of its funding is who would otherwise be inconvenienced. I checked its provided by the very same union that is holding passengers website before I came to the Chamber; it does provide to ransom and threatening to wreck their holidays? lots of advice to passengers who may be inconvenienced, and it has a phone number that can be rung by people Mr. Khan: You always, Mr. Speaker, impress on people who do not have access to a website. who speak in the Chamber the need to think about how The hon. Gentleman’s final point was about balloting. the public will view them, so I ask the public to ask the It is not for me to look into whether the balloting was question about how a party that seeks to form a fair. He will know from previous history that when BA Government tries to politicise what is an industrial thinks that there has been unfair balloting, it seeks to dispute. Some serious allegations have also been made challenge the trade union in the courts. It has not about the motives of the trade union and the Government, sought to do so in relation to this ballot. 729 British Airways Strike16 MARCH 2010 British Airways Strike 730

Several hon. Members rose— Mr. Khan: It is worth comparing and contrasting the questions by the Liberal Democrat spokesman, who Mr. Speaker: Order. Some 14 Members are seeking to was concerned about customers and the work force, and catch my eye, and as always I should like to be able to the questions from Conservative Front Benchers and accommodate everybody. However, I require brevity, a Back Benchers—evidence, if ever it were needed, that legendary example of which will now be provided by they believe that this is a political dispute, and that the right hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and rather then trying to resolve this in an amicable, calm Hythe (Mr. Howard). and temperate manner, they are trying to use emotive language to raise the temperature. Mr. Michael Howard (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): Is there not a very simple way in which the Government Mr. Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): The Prime can demonstrate that they are sincere when they say Minister said yesterday on “Woman’s Hour” that the that they disapprove of this strike? Why does the governing strike was party not refuse to take any more money from Unite “worthy of effort to try and prevent it.” until the dispute is resolved? Given, however, that we have been made aware by the Unite union since 14 December last year that a strike Mr. Khan: There is one party that has been clear and would happen, exactly what has the Prime Minister transparent in how it receives donations—[Interruption.] been doing for the past three months? It is an insult to the 6 million hard-working trade unionists, all of whom pay taxes, who have chosen to Mr. Khan: I have already answered that question. give money to a political party. I remind the right hon. One of the problems when someone is given a question and learned Gentleman that parties have stayed within to ask by their Whips is that they often do not hear the laws made by Tory legislation. One big donor to the answers that are given before they ask it. To put the Conservative party, I am afraid, has breached both the answers that the Prime Minister gave on “Woman’s spirit and the word of the law. Hour” in context, he said: “It’s the wrong time. It’s unjustified. It’s deplorable. We should Mr. Richard Caborn (Sheffield, Central) (Lab): Does not have a strike. It’s not in the company’s interest, it’s not in the my right hon. Friend agree that the trade unions have workers’ interest, and it’s certainly not in the national interest, so stuck within the law during the whole of this dispute I hope that this strike will be called off”. and the one thing that we do not want is politicians Do the Conservatives agree with that? interfering? This is an industrial dispute, not the political dispute that the Opposition are trying to orchestrate to David Cairns (Inverclyde) (Lab): Is my right hon. make the situation worse, not better, for the passengers. Friend aware that of the approximately 40 per cent. of BA flights that will not go ahead during the dispute, the Mr. Khan: It is noteworthy that while a Member of overwhelming majority are on the domestic routes, Parliament is trying to urge both sides to get together primarily to Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen, which and resolve the issue, other Members are hectoring him. means that travellers to and from Scotland, and businesses The public will not be fooled by the politicisation of in Scotland, will be disproportionately affected by this what is an industrial dispute. industrial action? Does not that underscore the need for a grown-up attitude towards this and for all sides to get Mr. Andrew Mackay (Bracknell) (Con): Will the Minister back around the negotiating table to solve what is now answer the question about why the Prime Minister primarily an industrial dispute, which is not being helped took four days to condemn the strike? Does it have by partisan point-scoring? anything to do with the fact that Charlie Whelan, the political director of Unite, is now back at the heart of Mr. Khan: I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. Downing street? He is absolutely right. Cool, calm heads are required now, not dossiers about perceived links between a trade Mr. Khan: If evidence were required of some people’s union and a Government being unfurled at press desperation to try to politicise a dispute, it has been conferences. I really hope that British Airways and the provided by the tone and substance of the questions trade union will listen to some of the debate in the that have been asked. This is a private dispute between Chamber today and get round the table to resolve this BA and Unite, the trade union. It is important that so that my hon. Friend’s constituents, big businesses, both sides should get around the table and resolve the small businesses and ordinary residents of this country issue. I am disappointed that there is not agreement in are not suffering unnecessarily. the House that the dispute should be resolved sooner rather than later. Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): Following that question, with Aberdeen airport in my constituency and as a Mr. Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): regular user of BA, I welcome the fact that BA has May I declare, as a member of T and G and Unite for protected some of the services at Aberdeen because it some 36 years, that I genuinely feel that stuck in the recognises how important it is, but the situation is still middle of all this, as my right hon. Friend the Minister inadequate. has indicated, are the customers of BA, the work force, May I follow up the point made by my hon. Friend and the company itself and where its future lies? Does the Member for Lewes (Norman Baker) about he agree that cheap political point-scoring plays no compensation? I am told that people who have discounted part in where this company and its work force should tickets are being told that no refunds will be provided be going? following industrial action. Will the Government intervene 731 British Airways Strike16 MARCH 2010 British Airways Strike 732 to ensure that that issue is addressed, and will the referred, and I am disappointed that they were unable Minister do everything he can to ensure that this strike to reach a resolution. I am optimistic still that cooler does not destroy British Airways, because the union heads will prevail, but what is important is that we must does not seem to understand that? not allow what is an industrial dispute to be politicised. The question that must be asked is this: why do some Mr. Khan: It is a private dispute; BA is not a nationalised people wish to do that? company. BA has said on its website, and made it clear in all its press announcements, that it will allow passengers Justine Greening (Putney) (Con): The reality, though, who are inconvenienced to rebook or to cancel and be is that this is a political dispute, because Unite gives refunded. If there are particular issues that the right Labour money, and it is one of the key stakeholders hon. Gentleman wants to raise with me, I will be happy pushing for the expansion of Heathrow, which is the to raise them with BA. policy of this Government. Will the Minister therefore condemn Unite in going ahead with this strike? It puts Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire, North) (Lab): not only passenger services at risk, but Heathrow jobs Will my right hon. Friend rise above the smokescreen of and local communities. party funding and use all his energies, and those of his ministerial colleagues, to get a satisfactory conclusion Mr. Khan: The history is that a Conservative Government to this bitter dispute? Does he agree that any inflammatory passed legislation on how political parties should be statements are counter-productive? Will he find out funded. Unite, like other trade unions and individuals, where Mr. Walsh is, because we have not heard from gives money to political parties, and does so in an open him, or from any of BA’s senior management, for quite and transparent manner. Some individuals decide not a long time? to abide by the rules, and only because of a freedom of information request are funding sources revealed. I am Mr. Khan: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. What disappointed that undertakings are not respected and is required at this time are cool, calm heads, and for that deputy leaders are hoodwinked. I am keen to see British Airways to meet the trade union to try to resolve whether the deputy leader of the Conservative party this dispute. I am afraid that sending out press releases, and its deputy chairman will come to give evidence on doing press conferences and using emotive language is Thursday to the Select Committee. not the way to reach a resolution, and nor are sending one’s pit bull to press conferences and using dossiers to Mr. Speaker: Order. I have operated a very considerable try to muddy the waters. latitude in these brief exchanges, and there have already been several—frankly, too many—references to the issue Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): The Minister of party funding. The matter upon which we need spoke of clarity and transparency, so he will not mind exclusively to focus is that of the BA strike. I feel sure being reminded that Messrs. Whelan, Dromey and Woodley that a fine example of that focus will now be provided all have passes to the House of Commons provided by by Mr. Dennis Skinner. members of the Labour party. Does he agree that this is a question of the Labour Government being bankrolled Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): In any industrial by Unite while Unite bankrupts British Airways in dispute, it takes two sides to cause a row. Will my right Britain? hon. Friend draw the distinction between the clean money that is given by the trade union movement to the Mr. Khan: Let us be clear. The Labour party has been Labour party, as opposed to a man who refuses to pay fully transparent about how it is funded by 6 million tax on £127 million and bankrolls the Tory party? hard-working trade unionists, all of whom pay taxes, and by many other individuals. One political party Mr. Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman has placed relies on a small number of individual donors, and only his point firmly on the record, but the Minister requires because of the Freedom of Information Act did it only the—[Interruption.] Order. The Minister requires reveal how it was funded. At least those who contribute only the briefest of replies. to the Labour party pay their taxes. Mr. Skinner: Why do you only stop me and not these Tony Lloyd (Manchester, Central) (Lab): Will my others? right hon. Friend confirm that it is not in the interests of British Airways or the travelling public for this matter Mr. Speaker: Order. [Interruption.] Order. The House to be turned into a party political football? Does he needs to let me address this. I must say in fairness to the agree that what would help is if Willie Walsh put the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) that I did not offer that was made previously back on to the table as a stop him. He made his point, and I have no objection to basis for both sides getting into serious renegotiations? him doing so. To be fair, I did not interrupt him. He had his say. Mr. Khan: My hon. Friend raises a really important point. What is required is not for British Airways, the Mr. Skinner: You do plenty of interrupting. huge work force or the thousands and thousands of passengers to be used as political footballs in the lead-up Mr. Speaker: Order. I do do some interrupting when to a general election. What is required is for British it is necessary for me to do so. Airways and the trade union to sit around a table and resolve any differences that still exist. My understanding Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): Over the years, trade is that they were close to agreement last week as a unionists have understandably campaigned for bank consequence of the terms to which my hon. Friend holidays and public holidays. Does the Minister not 733 British Airways Strike 16 MARCH 2010 734

[Tony Baldry] Points of Order agree that there comes a time when there should be an Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): On a point of understanding or convention so that we do not always order, Mr. Speaker. Is the expression “verbal diarrhoea” have disruptive strikes over bank holidays? They destroy parliamentary language? I have not heard it used in this the holidays for many working families, people who House before, and certainly never about yourself or want to go and see relations, and kids who want to get another occupant of the Chair, as it was just now. back from university. I understand that there is also a suggestion that the National Union of Rail, Maritime Mr. Speaker: I did not hear the offending expression and Transport Workers is going to go on strike over to which the hon. and gallant Gentleman refers. There Easter. It is very unfair—not to employers, but to is a certain amount of gesticulation now from a sedentary working families—when other trade unionists strike, so position both from him and from the hon. Member for disrupting their lives. Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh). The written record will tell us all, and I am happy to await it. The hon. Gentleman, Mr. Khan: Clearly, any industrial dispute causes a who came into the House in 1992, knows—not least huge inconvenience, but when families have planned from his smile—that what he has just said does not holidays or to visit loved ones, and saved money to do amount to a point of order. so, a strike looming over them and their plans is a huge source of discomfort. That is one reason why I hope BA Mr. Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge) and the trade union will sit around the table, and why (Con): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I seek they should not allow emotive language to affect the your guidance? As I understand it, there are 112 Members possibility of reaching a resolution to what is an industrial who are also members of the Unite union. When we are dispute. discussing matters that relate directly to the conduct of that trade union and hon. Members who are members Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): Does the Minister of it seek to take part in that discussion, should they believe that the union leaders behind the BA strike declare their membership of that union at the time of should set an example and forgo some of their £150,000- their participation in the debate? a-year pay packets? Is not that another example of the arch hypocrisy at the very top of the Unite union? Mr. Speaker: The straight answer is that that is not a point of order because the declaration of interests is a Mr. Speaker: Order. I am sorry—[Interruption.] Order. matter for individual Members: it is not a matter for the Leave me to deal with this. I have to say to the hon. Chair. Gentleman that his question does not remotely relate to the issue that we are considering, and that is why— Chloe Smith (Norwich, North) (Con): On a point of [Interruption.] Order. I do not require any comment or order, Mr. Speaker. On Thursday 11 March, the Secretary signalling from the hon. Gentleman. I am giving a of State for Children, Schools and Families visited my ruling: the hon. Gentleman can listen to it and he can constituency without notifying me. He visited a local like it or lump it. I intervene—[Interruption.] Order. I primary school where he made comments of a highly require no gesticulation from the hon. Gentleman— political nature to the local press. He then went canvassing [Interruption.] Order. His question was out of order. for his party and, as a school visit is within the subject That is the beginning and the end of the matter. matter of his portfolio, I am given to understand that that may be in contravention of section 10.9 of the Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) ministerial code. I seek your guidance on this matter. (LD): Clearly, the holidaying public and business need to see this strike called off and an end to the dispute. Mr. Speaker: Certainly, if it was an official visit, the May I specifically ask the Minister to reinforce to Minister in question should have given notice of the British Airways the point that Aberdeen is a long way intention to visit the constituency. This is the first I have from London? It may be a domestic route, but there is heard of this particular case. However, at this relatively no viable alternative for getting business done. Therefore, febrile time, perhaps I may simply reiterate the overriding can he reinforce to BA the need to maintain as many point that there is a long-established courtesy in this vital services to Aberdeen as possible despite any disruption place that when one Member visits another Member’s to services? constituency on public business—as opposed to a private visit—the Member visiting has a duty to notify, suitably Mr. Khan: I am happy to do just that. far in advance, the Member whose constituency he or she is visiting. I hope that that courtesy will be observed across the House. On the whole it is a respected and valued courtesy and we should uphold it.

Mr. Eric Martlew (Carlisle) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I have raised a lot of points of order over the past 20 years, and I do not think that any of them have been in order, but I hope that I will be successful this time. Last Thursday a statement was made in the House of Lords by the Secretary of State for Transport. It was 40 minutes before that statement was made here. I went to the Table Office to get a copy of that statement after the Secretary of State had sat 735 Points of Order16 MARCH 2010 Points of Order 736 down, but I was told that it would not be available until up and down the country, an important matter for a it had been made in this place. I then went to the House great many of our constituents. The question number is of Lords and got a copy of the statement. Surely that 316962, and I repeat: it is five weeks late. Could I please cannot be right, and surely it cannot happen again in ask you, Sir, for your kind intervention a second time to future. get the Department to do what it should have originally done within five days? Mr. Speaker: It would give me great pleasure if I were able to satisfy the hon. Member for Carlisle (Mr. Martlew), Mr. Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for but I fear that I cannot. I entirely understand why he his point of order, of which, as he knows, I had no and others might have been frustrated by this; however, advance notice whatever. He has taken the opportunity it results from the simple fact that the Secretary of to air—and very properly to air—his concern about the State—[Interruption.] Order. The hon. Member for excessive tardiness of ministerial replies. I feel sure that Peterborough (Mr. Jackson) should be quiet when I am his point of order will have been heard by those on the ruling on the point of order that has been raised. What Treasury Bench, and I hope that, as a result, a reply will happened arises from the fact that the Secretary of come to him extremely quickly. I hope that it will not be State for Transport is a Member of the other place, and necessary for him to raise his point of order again. I although there are arguments about accountability to simply say to Members on the Treasury Bench, including this place and so on, that is the situation. the Deputy Leader of the House, that these matters must be taken seriously by Ministers. Indeed, it looks to Mr. Martlew: Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. me as though the Deputy Leader of the House would I do not have any disagreement with that; in fact, I have like to say something, and I think that the House would advocated that the Secretary of State should come to welcome that. this Chamber. However, statements should be made available to Members of this House after the Secretary The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of of State has sat down, because they are available to the House of Commons (Barbara Keeley): Just to be noble Lords and the general public. clear, I have said on a number of occasions, as has my right hon. and learned Friend the Leader of the House, Mr. Speaker: Those Members are in another House. I that we will take representations from Members and entirely understand what the hon. Gentleman is saying, put them to Departments, and I think I said that last but it is not clear to me that an immediate resolution of Thursday at business questions. I am happy to do that the issue is available. However, I will reflect, as I always for any Member who has similar issues, and will do so reflect on what he has to say, and if I have anything now if the hon. Member for South-West Bedfordshire further to report, either to him or to the House, he and (Andrew Selous) wants to give me the details. the House will be the first to learn of it. Mr. Speaker: I am grateful. Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Some moments ago you rebuked Ms Sally Keeble (Northampton, North) (Lab): On a me—I think unfairly, but I stand by your ruling. However, point of order, Mr. Speaker. The Debt Relief (Developing after my question there was a pause, whereupon I saw Countries) Bill, which was tabled as Government business the Minister of State—he appeared to prompt you, yesterday, is not on the Order Paper at all today. Can Mr. Speaker. I am sure that was not the case, because of you assure me, Mr. Speaker, that it will be tabled again course you can rebuke me in your own right— tomorrow? We want Government time in which to debate the remaining stages of the Bill, and to vote Mr. Speaker: Order. Let me deal with this point of on it. order very clearly and conclusively. [Interruption.] Order. The hon. Gentleman will sit and listen to the response Mr. Speaker: Unfortunately I cannot reassure the and not gesticulate while I am offering that response. I hon. Lady, for the simple reason that—although I saw no sign whatsoever, from any Member on the understand the background to, and concern about, this Treasury Bench, and for the hon. Gentleman to suggest matter—the tabling of Bills is not a matter for the that I would be prompted—in this House, from the Chair. I think that she will have to have discussions with Chair—by another Member to make a comment or people other than me. She indicates from a sedentary response is quite wrong, and it is also an unacceptable position that she has already done so, but I know of her observation on his part. Let me very politely suggest to dedication and persistence, and I think that they may be the hon. Gentleman, whose behaviour was untoward, required in this case. that it would be sensible and rational of him simply to accept the rebuke, to call it a day and to move on. That BILL PRESENTED is the end of the matter.

COUNCIL TAX BENEFIT (CHANGE OF NAME)BILL Andrew Selous (South-West Bedfordshire) (Con): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Last week I raised a point Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) of order about two unanswered questions to the Mr. Paul Burstow, supported by Mr. David Heath, Department for Work and Pensions. Since your kind presented a Bill to change the name of Council Tax intervention on my behalf, one of those two questions Benefit to Council Tax Rebate; and for connected purposes. has been answered. The other is now five weeks overdue, Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on and it concerns the administration of jobseeker’s allowance Friday 26 March, and to be printed (Bill 88). 737 16 MARCH 2010 Illegally Logged Timber 738

Illegally Logged Timber (Prohibition of I pay tribute to my colleagues, and indeed members of Retail, Wholesale and Distribution) all political parties, in the European Parliament who have also pressed for a more ambitious regulation. Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order However, is clear that action at European level will not No. 23) go far enough. 4pm On 1 March, the EU Council adopted a common Gregory Barker (Bexhill and Battle) (Con): I beg to position on the regulation, which only lays down the move, minimum requirement that companies trading in timber That leave be given to bring in a Bill to prohibit the retail, and timber products should exercise due diligence to wholesale and distribution in the United Kingdom of timber and minimise the risk of placing illegally harvested timber wood products that were obtained or produced illegally in their and timber products on the internal market. It lacks an country of origin; and for connected purposes. explicit overarching prohibition on illegal timber in the The earth’s rain forests are not only one of the greatest EU market. With no explicit prohibition, there is no wonders of the natural world; they are the green lungs incentive to exclude illegal timber from entering the of the planet. They are also the source of the forest market; there is only an incentive to prove that the resources that help to support the livelihoods of nearly company concerned has tried to prevent it. Furthermore, 1 billion of the world’s poorest people. moreover, the the regulation applies only to those companies that carbon dioxide emissions that arise from the annual place timber and timber products on the market for the burning and destruction of rain forests account for first time, rather than all operators involved in the about 17.5 per cent. of global greenhouse gas emissions, distribution chain. Loopholes are therefore created whereby more than the whole global aviation and transport all downstream companies—the majority of EU traders— sector put together. Without urgent action to halt are exempt from even the bare minimum of due diligence deforestation, we shall have no chance of beating global requirements. A prohibition on illegal timber needs to climate change. Even if there were no threat from apply to all companies that make timber available to the man-made climate change, we could not stand by and market, whatever their position in the supply chain. see the forests destroyed, because of the vast and unique Unlike the EU, the USA has shown real leadership eco-systems that they support and the livelihoods that on this issue. In 2008, the United States amended the depend on them. Lacey Act and made it illegal for a person or company Saving the rain forests is something that we can to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire or achieve if we can find and summon the necessary purchase illegal timber or illegal timber products. The political will, and it is certainly something that fires the Lacey Act amendments are widely seen as a historic imagination and support of my constituents. Like all breakthrough and are already leading to changes in good climate policy, however, urgent action to save the practices among US retailers and importers, and world’s forests is a good thing in itself. Ultimately, we manufacturers and logging companies. There is no reason need to continue to find ways in which to create an why that legislative change cannot be replicated here in economic value for tropical forests in particular, so that the UK with the creation of an offence of selling or they are worth more standing than as timber. distributing imported wood illegally harvested in its There is no magic solution to saving the rain forests, country of origin, or, indeed, of importing such wood and good progress was made at Copenhagen on support into the UK. The Environment Secretary himself has said mechanisms for forestry, but one measure that we can “illegal timber should be just that—illegal” take now is to choke off demand for illegal timber here but to date his Department has stubbornly refused to in the UK market. In a speech before the Copenhagen legislate to that effect with the introduction of simple summit, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond, and specific domestic legislation to make the sale of Yorks (Mr. Hague), the shadow Foreign Secretary, made timber produced illegally an offence in the UK. plain the strength of the Conservatives’ commitment to halting deforestation, and in particular to addressing The effectiveness of the Lacey Act lies in its simplicity. illegal logging. He gave the clear commitment that a It defines in law what companies must not handle, but Conservative Government would make it a criminal gives companies the freedom to find ways to meet that offence under UK law to import and possess illegal obligation. My Bill is intended to replicate the Lacey-style timber. approach in the UK. It would apply equally to all Three weeks later, during Prime Minister’s Question operators in the UK supply chain and prohibit illegal Time—and during the Copenhagen summit—my right timber in the UK market. Agreement at the European hon. Friend asked the Government to support that level and tough action by individual member states is proposal, and in January, during the first Energy and now no longer a matter of either/or, given that there is Climate Change questions after the summit, I repeated not an agreement at Council to go any further than a his call for the Government to match our commitment due diligence system. The clarity of this Bill would to action. The Government’s own Back Benchers have complement the due diligence approach in the EU and, mounted concerted and considerable efforts and campaigns given that the UK is the third largest importer of illegal to secure a measure to criminalise illegal timber activity, timber in the EU, measures taken in the UK would have yet, despite encouraging rhetoric, the Government more than merely a token status: they would have a themselves have refused to legislate, choosing instead to significant impact on illegal logging and on the EU market. hide behind the slow and indecisive process taking place This Bill is endorsed by not only environmental groups in the European Union. such as the WWF and the Environmental Investigation Conservative Members have supported, and remain Agency, but by the certification bodies the Forest committed to, a strengthening of the draft EU regulation Stewardship Council and the Programme for the “laying down the obligations of operators who place timber and Endorsement of Forest Certification schemes, and also timber products on the market”. by major retailers such as B&Q and Timbmet, the UK’s 739 Illegally Logged Timber 16 MARCH 2010 740 largest hardwoods importer, which already proves that it is possible to be both kind to the environment and Opposition Day deliver real value and choice to customers. It is also endorsed by the Coalition for Rainforest Nations, an [6TH ALLOTTED DAY] umbrella organisation that accounts for the majority of the world’s rain forest nations. This Bill is also directly consistent with the “legislative principles on forestry” Equitable Life adopted by 120 legislators from the world’s major economies [Relevant documents: The Second Report from the Public at the GLOBE Copenhagen legislators forum last October. Administration Select Committee, Session 2008-09, on In conclusion, without urgent action to halt deforestation Justice Delayed: The Ombudsman’s report on Equitable we do not have a chance of beating man-made climate Life, HC 41, and the Government response, HC 953, and change. In January, I gave a commitment that if this the Sixth Report from the Public Administration Select Government do not act to make the sale of illegal Committee, Session 2008-09, on Justice denied? The timber a criminal offence, a new Conservative Government Government’s response to the Ombudsman’s report on will, and, moreover, a Conservative Government will Equitable Life, HC 219, and the Government response, work with other EU states to do the same. However, I HC 569.] hope that after the election, if it falls to the Conservatives to form the Government, we will have the opportunity Mr. Speaker: I inform the House that I have selected to bring forward this measure on the back of a new the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister. consensus that recognises the part that Members from across the House have played in the campaign. I should like to note that this Bill is co-sponsored by colleagues 4.10 pm not only from the shadow Cabinet, but by distinguished Mr. Mark Hoban (Fareham) (Con): I beg to move, Labour Back Benchers and former Labour Ministers. I particularly want to pay tribute to the huge body of That this House notes that the Ombudsman published her work on this issue by the hon. Member for Brent, North report on Equitable Life in July 2008, that the Government did not make its response until January 2009, and that its rejection of (Barry Gardiner)—the Prime Minister’s former special some of her findings was successfully challenged in the High envoy on forestry—and the efforts of the hon. Member Court; believes that the delays caused by the Government since for Hendon (Mr. Dismore), but it seems that it will the publication of the Ombudsman’s report have led to further require a new Conservative Government to take this and unnecessary hardship for Equitable Life’s policyholders and vital step forward on to the statute book and send a have done further damage to the UK’s savings culture; and calls message to the rest of Europe that the UK is ready to on the Government to set a clear timetable for implementing the change and to take the lead on the campaign against Ombudsman’s recommendations and remedying the injustice suffered illegally harvested timber. by policyholders. Question put and agreed to. It is hard to believe that nine years after Equitable Life’s policyholders saw the value of their policies slashed, Ordered, six years after Lord Penrose identified regulatory failures, That Gregory Barker, Mr. William Hague, Greg Clark, 18 months after the ombudsman’s damning report on Nick Herbert, Mr. Oliver Letwin, Charles Hendry, Barry the regulation of Equitable Life and more than a year Gardiner, Alun Michael, Mr. Peter Ainsworth, Bill Wiggin, since the Government’s response, policyholders are still Mr. Hugo Swire and Mr. Nick Hurd present the Bill. no nearer to knowing what the outcome of their fight Gregory Barker accordingly presented the Bill. for justice will be. They have been given no timetable for Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on payments and no certainty as to how much they will Friday 7 May, and to be printed (Bill 87). receive. That is the tragedy of Equitable Life for its policyholders, many of whom will not live to see justice done. The truth is that it did not need to be this way. The Government deliberately chose, at each turning point on the road to justice, to take the longer and more difficult route— there were no short cuts for the Government, because the delays suited them—and from the outset they sought to block the campaign. The pattern of the Government’s behaviour is clear. They wanted to block, frustrate and then delay the fight for justice. They could have chosen a better, quicker route to justice, but they dogmatically chose a different path: one that has delayed justice. Who has paid the price for that? The answer is Equitable’s policyholders, the people who have faced an uncertain future, the people who are struggling to make ends meet because their pension is not as much as they expected, not because of the market, but because of actions taken by the management of Equitable that were not picked up by regulators over the course of a decade. Every Member in this House will know from their postbag the personal cost of this to their constituents, but whatever the outcome for policyholders we know that more than 30,000 will not 741 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 742

[Mr. Mark Hoban] to save money by waiting for more people to die. Instead, they need to accept the clear guidance that we see justice. We also know that as every day goes by, have already seen, which the hon. Gentleman is outlining more and more policyholders see the prospect of justice and with which those on the Liberal Democrat Benches disappear. and the majority of the Government’s Back-Benchers agree—they should pay out, sort it out and put an end Mr. Brian Binley (Northampton, South) (Con): May to this utter tragic travesty. I cite the case of a constituent of mine, Mr. David McKeever, who has been particularly critical and believes Mr. Hoban: The problem is that this process has that the Government are doing all they can to delay dragged on for far too long. All groups of policyholders payment to the victims of the Equitable Life collapse? have lost out as a consequence of the delays and we He told me that, since 2002, 10,000 of the 54,000 annuitants need to see a clear timetable setting out when payments have died. Does my hon. Friend believe that the will be made to them. It is very disappointing not just to Government want to wait until all of these people die? Members of the House who have been part of this long fight for justice but to policyholders that the Government Mr. Hoban: My hon. Friend makes an important seem to be no closer to producing a clear timetable for point, because there have been huge delays during this payments to policyholders. process—I shall detail some of those that the Government have engineered—and, as a consequence, many of the Richard Ottaway (Croydon, South) (Con): My hon. policyholders have died and will not see justice delivered. Friend spoke about the good work done by the action The fight for justice has united Members from all group. Many of its key executives live in my constituency parts of the House, and I commend the creation of the and I have worked with them for nearly 10 years now. Is all-party group on Equitable Life Policy Holders, which he aware of their frustration at the progress made by Sir is chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury John Chadwick, who they feel is doing nothing but and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) and the hon. Member repeating the Government line? for Leeds, North-East (Mr. Hamilton), a Labour Back Bencher. I pay tribute to the work that they have done Mr. Hoban: I understand the frustration that EMAG’s within this House to ensure that Equitable remains on members feel about the process and the time that has its agenda. Tribute must also be paid to the Equitable been taken. The group announced earlier today or late Members Action Group—EMAG—which has galvanised last night that it had chosen to withdraw from further policyholders into an effective campaigning body.EMAG’s discussion of Sir John Chadwick’s work. I have some members have not been slow in making their views sympathy with its frustration about the process, but it is known to Members of Parliament and their lobbying important that a strong voice on behalf of policyholders has been effective in maintaining the profile of this issue is party to the finalisation of Sir John’s report. Speed is for many years. of the essence because, as hon. Members have said in a number of interventions, the longer the process is strung Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): I am following the hon. out, the fewer the policyholders who will see justice. Gentleman’s remarks closely. Does he agree that as a gesture of compassion, given that 10,000 pensioners have already died unpaid and waiting, the Government Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): The hon. should instruct Sir John Chadwick to make an interim Gentleman rightly makes the point that time is ticking tax-free payment—as advocated by EMAG—equivalent on. Some 2,500 policyholders might die in the coming to two years on account to alleviate some of the hardship year and is that not the reason why my hon. Friend the and stress that pensioners are facing now? Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) is right that we need interim payments to be made, which would, after all, Mr. Hoban: The hon. Lady raises the plight of a very represent a small fraction of the overall compensation important group of Equitable Life’s policyholders. It that we expect to be paid eventually and could be was noticeable that in the third interim report that deducted from any final rewards? That would at least Sir John published last week he highlighted that one give people such as the Rev. and Mrs. Littlewood, in my group to have suffered a disproportionate impact from constituency, some hope of seeing some money in the the failures at Equitable Life and from the failure of near future. regulation was the so-called trapped annuitants. We are all mindful of the suffering that they face and of the Mr. Hoban: Of course, the truth is that we do not fact that they have faced a loss of income. However, the know how much compensation will be payable to challenge is this: if we make an interim payment now to policyholders. We will not know that until Sir John has the trapped annuitants, how much will that leave for the completed his final report and his conclusions have other policyholders? Surely the best thing to do is to been applied to the data supplied by Equitable Life. We move as quickly as possible to resolve the entire problem need to bear it in mind that we do not yet know what and then to consider how we prioritise payments, perhaps, the bill will be. once that settlement has been reached, so that the with-profits annuitants receive a fair deal then. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Liam Byrne): I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is being very Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire) (LD): Stepping back generous, for giving way. I wanted to clarify one point from all this, does the hon. Gentleman agree that we all that comes from his answer to an earlier intervention. Is know what the common-sense answers are? The obfuscation he proposing that the Government drops the John does not disguise them at all and if we are to see justice, Chadwick process and reverts to the process set out by the Government need to prove that they are not trying the ombudsman? 743 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 744

Mr. Hoban: I did not make that sort of comment at Mr. Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): I thank the hon. all. I am not quite sure what the right hon. Gentleman is Gentleman for giving way. I am listening very closely to referring to. I know that over the past few weeks he has his explanation of the process and the history of this adopted a habit of flip-flopping on a range of issues, matter. Many hon. Members have made excellent but I am not going to flip-flop on this. We need to interventions, but is not the real shame of this the fact ensure that the process is completed as quickly as that this House has been completely unable to support possible so that we get the right outcome for policyholders the independent ombudsman against the Executive and who have had to wait too long for justice. They have so ensure that the matter was dealt with several years had to wait so long for justice because the Government ago, as it should have been? have sought to block, frustrate and delay the progress on that report. Mr. Hoban: The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. There is a quite a lot of frustration across the Mr. William Cash (Stone) (Con): I agree with everything House about how the ombudsman has been treated. that my hon. Friend has said so far. Does he agree that The hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright), the this debate is rather like watching paint dry but without Chairman of the Public Administration Committee, the paint? According to the action group’s spokesman has made comments along those lines— today, more than 1 million people have lost £4 billion, but it is estimated that only several hundred million Dr. Tony Wright (Cannock Chase) (Lab) rose— pounds, at most, will be recovered. In those circumstances, it is not only a question of those who have died, but also Mr. Hoban: In fact, I think that he is seeking to of those who will continue to live. Under present intervene on me at this moment. arrangements, they will not get anything realistic. Dr. Wright: I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman. Mr. Hoban: As I said earlier, we will have to see what As he says, I have been critical of the Government on the outcome of Sir John’s work is, and how his this issue on behalf of the ombudsman, but I have never recommendations are applied to the information supplied understood what the Conservative position is. to the Treasury by Equitable Life, before we can work out what the total compensation bill will be. Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): The hon. Gentleman should read the motion. Mrs. Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): I thank my hon. Friend very much for giving way. Does he agree Dr. Wright: Having read the motion, I am even less that the extent of the problem is even greater than the clear. When the ombudsman’s report came out, it was statistics show? The policyholders who have died and widely estimated that it would cost about £4 billion to not benefited have left behind widows and dependants implement. I have never been clear as to whether the who will never benefit from the investments that their Conservative party was saying that that was a bill that it husbands and spouses made over many years. was prepared to meet. If the hon. Gentleman is not saying that, there will be a suspicion that what we are Mr. Hoban: My hon. Friend raises an important hearing is some kind of electoral noise. point. We need to think carefully about how we deal with the widows, widowers and dependants who have Mr. Hoban: The hon. Gentleman refers to the bill for been left behind, and about the compensation scheme compensation, but no one knows how big it will be. that they need. That figure will be part of the outcome of the process that the Government launched back in January last Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): I am year. He will know, from reading the ombudsman’s very grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way, as he has report, that her recommendations on compensation been most generous. Following on from the previous had two important caveats—that payments to policyholders point, is it not all the more important that the Minister should reflect relative loss but that the impact of any give the House two assurances today? First, he must compensation bill on the public purse should also be assure the House that the full detail of all the actuarial borne in mind. That position was accepted by the hon. reports and background material that have been made Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) in a debate last available to Sir John Chadwick will be published. Secondly, year, and I think that the Government also accept it, as he should rule out, clearly and unequivocally, that any do the Opposition. compensation will be subject to means-testing. I hope What we need to do is find out what the compensation that he is moving in that direction, and that he will bill is. The sooner that that happens, the easier it will be make it clear today that there will be no means-testing. to put a scheme together. However, people need a clear For people who have suffered a great deal of delay timetable for when they can expect to receive compensation already, even the thought that compensation might be payments for the losses that they suffered as a consequence means-tested would really add insult to injury. of maladministration.

Mr. Hoban: My hon. Friend makes an important Susan Kramer (Richmond Park) (LD): I really appreciate point about the transparency of the process. We must the hon. Gentleman giving way again, as he has done so make sure that Equitable Life’s policyholders have a great many times already. Is he aware that Sir John confidence in that transparency, and that requires a Chadwick’s third interim report raises a number of real reasonable degree of disclosure about the basis for issues, such as the assumption that the regulator would some of the judgments that have been made. That always do the absolute minimum of minimums? That would help to reassure people that this is not a stitch-up suggests that the report and the final decision will be but a proper and rigorous process. very heavily disputed, and that that dispute could drag 745 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 746

[Susan Kramer] When the ombudsman’s report was published, however, its conclusions were clear. There were 10 findings of on for a long time. Under those circumstances, does he maladministration in her report, and her recommendations agree that interim payments become more important, were clear too: because the maladministration had caused and that there should be a willingness to look beyond injustice, there should be a scheme to make payments to the exact words of Sir John Chadwick’s report? the policyholders. That was where she added the two caveats that I mentioned in my answer to the hon. Mr. Hoban: The willingness to look beyond the words Member for Cannock Chase. The first was that the of his report will depend, of course, on who is in compensation paid to policyholders should be based on government at the time and what their approach is; but relative losses rather than the absolute loss. That means whoever that is and whatever their approach, we want that market conditions at the time should be taken into resolution of this process. It has been going for far too account when calculating the losses suffered by the long, and the longer the disputes are about Sir John’s policyholders—an approach that Sir John Chadwick report, the longer it will take for compensation to be has adopted in his work. The second caveat was that the paid to Equitable’s policyholders. We need to bear that impact on the public purse needed to be considered in mind. I now return to my speech, because I am when determining any compensation scheme. That is an conscious that many hon. Members want to take part in important caveat, and it is accepted by all parties. The the debate. second recommendation called for the issue of an apology from the Government to policyholders. From the Penrose report onwards, it has been clear that one factor contributing to the problems of Equitable We accepted the recommendations immediately. It Life was the action of the regulator. In the concluding was the right thing to do. Indeed, we made a commitment paragraph of his report, Lord Penrose said: to respect the ombudsman’s findings during the cross-party campaign to force a second inquiry. But one voice was “Principally the Society was the author of its own misfortunes.” absent from the acceptance of the ombudsman’s findings. Normally, Ministers stop their quotation at that point One voice remained silent: that of the Government. in his remarks, but Lord Penrose went on to say that One would have thought that the Treasury would have “it may be appropriate to comment that the practices of the known exactly what the ombudsman’s findings would Society’s management could not have been sustained over a be, given the arguments and debates between them. One material part of the 1990s had there been in place an appropriate would have thought that it would be prepared for her regulatory structure”. findings, prepared to give a response, but there was no From that point on, it was clear that the failures of the immediate response—just silence. regulator over a decade played a key role in the crisis at Equitable Life. Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North) (Lab): The hon. The Government could have responded to the Penrose Gentleman just said that the Government—whichever report by accepting that there was regulatory failure Government—must take account of the impact on the and acting upon that failure then. If those findings had public purse of compensating Equitable Life’s pensioners. been accepted and acted upon, it could have led to Is that not a simple get-out for the Conservatives, and is justice being delivered to the policyholders many years there not very little difference between those on the ago. The crisis at Equitable Life could have been put to Government Front Bench and the Conservative Front bed then. But the Government chose to ignore those Bench on this? Is there not a moral obligation to pay the findings, and then sought to block any further inquiry pensioners, whatever the cost to the public purse? It will by the ombudsman into Equitable Life. not be in excess of the gross domestic product. But The Government said that the ombudsman could not actually, if we collected a little more tax, we might be investigate the Government Actuary’s Department—the able to pay them quite easily. Department that played the key role in the day-to-day regulation of Equitable Life—and therefore there could Mr. Hoban: As I said earlier, we need to see what the not be a second inquiry into the regulation of Equitable. bill is. There is a big difference between the Conservatives The right hon. Member for Bolton, West (Ruth Kelly), and Labour on this. In the past few years, the Government the then Financial Secretary, stood firm on that until have sought first to block the second inquiry, then to my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Mr. Tyrie) frustrate the work of the ombudsman and then to delay identified that the ombudsman’s remit could include their response and the payment of compensation to the Government Actuary, thus clearing the way for the policyholders. The Conservatives have been clear from ombudsman’s second inquiry. That was a pivotal point the outset, when the ombudsman published her report, in the process which led to the opportunity for the that we accepted her findings and wanted justice to be second inquiry into Equitable. done. That is the difference between the Conservatives and Labour, and that is why Labour Back Benchers With the start of the ombudsman’s work, policyholders should be wary of the Government’s amendment to the might have thought the end was in sight, but they did motion. not take into account the ability of the Government to frustrate the ombudsman’s work. Documents previously When the Government did not give an immediate thought lost were suddenly found, further complicating response to the ombudsman’s report, we saw the third the ombudsman’s inquiry. But the new documents were stage of their strategy on Equitable Life—delay. Despite not the only barrier that the Government put in the the commitment that the Prime Minister gave to my ombudsman’s way. One might have thought that it was hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham enough for the ombudsman to be bombarded with that there would be those documents, but then the Treasury decided to “a statement before the House rises at Christmas”—[Official shower her with legal arguments on her findings. Report, 3 December 2008; Vol. 485, c. 38.] 747 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 748 nothing happened until the middle of 2009, nearly six Even when the Government published their response months after the ombudsman’s report was published. to the ombudsman’s report, their first act, after apologising That is when we finally got their response, and we must for failing policyholders, was to reject a number of the ask why they did not respond more quickly to the ombudsman’s findings of maladministration. Perhaps, report. they had spent that six months of delay trying to There was a time when the Prime Minister would wriggle out of their responsibilities to policyholders have been very quick to criticise delays in responding to and finding loopholes to evade the course for justice. Of reports. In 1989, he said: course, they were challenged by EMAG, and the High “I must ask why we have had to rely on the ombudsman to Court partially overturned the Government’s rejection confirm the mismanagement, maladministration and incompetence of some of the ombudsman’s findings—another delaying that was widely known about more than one year ago.”—[Official tactic. Report, 19 December 1989; Vol. 164, c. 204.] The Government’s response triggered a further delay, When he was in opposition, the now Prime Minister with the commissioning of Sir John Chadwick to advise made his name by championing the cause of Barlow on a number of areas such as calculating relative loss Clowes’ shareholders and investors. He made that and establishing which groups of policyholders suffered statement calling for action when the then Government disproportionate loss and what proportion of the losses had announced their compensation scheme, but here could be apportioned to other bodies. Hon. Members we are, 18 months after the ombudsman reported will know that Sir John published his third interim maladministration in the regulation of Equitable Life, report last week and that he expects to publish his final still awaiting the details of a scheme as well as a report in May. That is quite convenient is it not? There timetable. will be no formal response from the Government before the general election, no commitments and no guarantees. Mr. Jim Cunningham (Coventry, South) (Lab): Will Last month, at the meeting of the all-party group on the hon. Gentleman give way? Equitable Life Policy Holders, the Chief Secretary gave some hints of what he might do if the Government were Mr. Hoban: Let me just finish this point. re-elected, but there was no commitment to a clear How times change for the Prime Minister: where he timetable for making payments. There was no indication would once have urged quick action, he now seems of when policyholders might see justice delivered or happy to string things out for as long as possible. When when they would know for certain just how much he could have taken a decision, as Chancellor, to sort money, if any, they would receive from the Government. out Equitable Life, he chose to stand in the way of a There were lots of hints but nothing specific—just like solution. When, as Prime Minister, he could have put in their amendment today. his foot on the accelerator to get a rapid solution, he found the brake instead. He has let the policyholders of Mr. Byrne rose— Equitable Life down. I hope that the hon. Member for Coventry, South (Mr. Cunningham) can tell us why he Mr. Hoban: I will give way to the Chief Secretary in a decided to do that. moment. Labour Back-Benchers, who have been seduced by the warm words of the Government amendment, Mr. Cunningham: I am not going to answer that might like to ask themselves a simple question. After question, but I will say that we have attended a number years of standing by and letting policyholders suffer, of debates on Equitable Life, but the whole thing does can people trust the Government to do the right thing not, I am sure the hon. Gentleman will agree, seem to be by policyholders once the election is over? Perhaps the going forward. The important point to make is that Chief Secretary can answer that. many people outside are utterly frustrated with us rehearsing Mr. Byrne: I will address that point in my own the arguments over and again but never taking matters contribution, if that is okay with the hon. Gentleman. forward. I have some sympathy with the comments of Before he concludes, what policyholders will want to the Liberal Democrats that some form of payment hear from him is a clear statement about whether he should be made as a demonstration of good will. supports the John Chadwick process or whether he wants it to be stopped, and the Government of the day Mr. Hoban: I think that many people, including some to revert to the approach proposed by the ombudsman. of the hon. Gentleman’s Back-Bench colleagues, share It is a very simple question—it is imperative that his frustration that no real progress is being made policyholders know the Opposition’s position. despite policyholders having suffered a cut in their policy values in 2001 and despite Penrose having said in Mr. Hoban: The risk of stopping the process undertaken 2004 that regulation was a contributory factor to the by Sir John Chadwick is that we further delay the problems at Equitable Life. We need to see some progress. payment of compensation to policyholders. I think that The reality is that the Government simply did not Members in all parts of the House want justice to be want to lift a finger to help those who had lost out delivered to policyholders as soon as possible. The because of the regulation of Equitable Life. They sought problem over the past few years is that, every step of the to block the second inquiry and they tried to deny that way, the Government have sought to frustrate that the ombudsman had the power to investigate the process and delay it. People want justice to be to be Government Actuary. When that tactic failed, they done. It is important that we make sure that we do all sought to frustrate the ombudsman with a barrage of that we can so that the process on which Sir John documents and legal arguments, and when all that Chadwick has embarked enjoys the confidence of Members failed, there was delay. It is no wonder that we are not in all parts of the House and, in particular, has some making the progress that the hon. Gentleman and many support from the policyholders who are most directly other hon. Members want. affected. 749 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 750

Mr. Edward Garnier (Harborough) (Con): Just because That is the right approach. The Government’s actions it is no longer practicable to bring the Chadwick procedure have delayed justice for far too long. If we form the to an end, which is what the Government would like us next Government, Equitable’s policyholders have the to fall into, it does not necessarily mean that it was a commitment that we will sort out the mess that the present good idea to disrespect the ombudsman’s position. Government have left behind. We need to act quickly not only to help Equitable’s Mr. Hoban: We are, as is often said in politics, where policyholders, but to restore confidence in savings. The we are. The process could have been handled far more long drawn-out process for dealing with Equitable Life efficiently by the Government, and we could be in a has helped to erode such confidence. The message that better place if the Government had not sought to delay people hear is that the regulator failed and the Government their response to the ombudsman’s report. If they had have sought to wriggle out of their responsibility to not waited six months, we might know just how much Equitable’s policyholders. It is no wonder that five times policyholders could expect to receive and when. The as many people prefer to save for the long term by delays are a significant let-down for policyholders. We putting their money into their house, rather than into need to make sure that we move ahead with all due investments. We are not going to rebuild the savings speed, and make clear the timetable so that policyholders culture in the UK and put the economy back on the know when they are going to get justice. right track until people are confident that the regulators are doing their job and the safeguards that are in place Barry Gardiner (Brent, North) (Lab): The hon. to protect consumers work when they are needed. The Gentleman said that he would support the continuation Government’s failure to deal with the aftermath of of the Chadwick efforts. Would he add two further Equitable Life has undermined confidence in savings. comments? Would he say whether he is committed to Equitable Life has been a tragedy for many thousands doing anything additional that might reflect the situation of policyholders who have been condemned to hardship if the ombudsman’s report had been able to continue. through a cut in policy values, let down by the regulators Would he also state his own timetable, to give policyholders and failed by this Government. At every step of the a clear view of what a Conservative Administration way, rather than doing the right thing by policyholders, would mean for them? the Government and the Prime Minister have tried to evade responsibility. They have tried to deny policyholders Mr. Hoban: The hon. Gentleman makes an important the second ombudsman’s inquiry and tried to frustrate point about the timetable. My right hon. Friend the that inquiry. Now, 18 months after the ombudsman has Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron) said last month: reported, policyholders are no closer to knowing when “If we win the election, we’re going to sort out Equitable Life they will receive compensation. A problem that could very early on.” have been resolved after Lord Penrose had highlighted That is a clear commitment to make rapid progress on the regulatory failings in 2004 remains unresolved six this issue. The other aspect is that Sir John Chadwick is years later because the Government failed to act. advising the Government, who are in a position to take The Government’s handling of Equitable Life has on board the concerns that have been expressed about caused misery to hundreds of thousands of people, and the way in which the Chadwick process will reach a final financial hardship to people who should be enjoying conclusion. It is important that the Government listen their retirement. The Government should be ashamed to those concerns. of themselves. The Government amendment today is There is a demand, which has been voiced very clearly no damascene conversion. It is a cynical attempt to fool in today’s debate, for a clear timetable from the Government. Equitable’s policyholders in the weeks running up to We have to ask ourselves what the Government did last the election. They are treating policyholders like fools year to establish a clear timetable for payments. Has any and it is our responsibility to stand up for them, clear work been done by the Government on how they might up the mess that the Government will leave behind, make payments to policyholders, or to determine how and ensure that after their long fight, Equitable’s long it might take to make such payments? If it has, the policyholders receive the justice that they have been Treasury should be in a position to set out an indicative denied for so long. timetable. If the Chief Secretary tells us that no work has been done along those lines, policyholders will have 4.42 pm to wait even longer for certainty as the Government work through the mechanics of compensation. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Liam Byrne): But this failure to be up front with policyholders I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “House” about a timetable is a reminder that throughout this to the end of the question and add: process, the Government have sought to avoid responsibility “recognises the vital role the Ombudsman plays in public life; and tried to delay resolving the problems for as long as reaffirms the duty of Parliament to support the office of the possible. If the Government had responded to the Ombudsman; notes that the High Court ruled that the Government’s response to the Ombudsman’s recommendations on Equitable ombudsman’s report more quickly, policyholders would Life, its establishment of an ex gratia payment scheme, and the have known by now what the outcome would be. terms of reference given to Sir John Chadwick were a rational Our response has been clear. We accepted the response to the Ombudsman’s report; notes that Sir John expects ombudsman’s findings at the outset, and we said that if to produce his final advice in May; welcomes the Government’s the Government did not put a scheme in place, we commitment to respond with details of a payment scheme within two weeks of receiving this advice; welcomes the Government’s would. I reiterate the comment of my right hon. Friend determination to establish a scheme administratively quicker and the Member for Witney last month, when he said; simpler to deliver than that envisaged by the Ombudsman; further “If we win the election, we’re going to sort out Equitable Life notes that to abandon the Chadwick process so close to completion very early on.” would add delay and hardship for policyholders; welcomes the 751 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 752

Government’s view that, while it cannot prejudge Sir John’s final First, I want to repeat the apology to policyholders advice, there is a strong case for policyholders who have passed for the delay. This was an apology first made by my away to be included in the scheme and that it is neither desirable predecessor, now the Secretary of State for Work and nor administratively feasible to means-test every individual Pensions. I would also like to repeat what I put on the policyholder; and recognises the impact and significant distress that maladministration and injustice have caused in respect of record in our first debate in October, which was a word Equitable Life.” of thanks to the parliamentary ombudsman for her work. It is right and appropriate for the Government to I, too, welcome the chance to debate Equitable Life record our gratitude for her work. Her report was today. I am grateful for some—not all—of the remarks substantial, careful and sympathetic, and it contained a that the hon. Member for Fareham (Mr. Hoban) made. weight of analysis that reflects the complexity and scale In particular, I am grateful for his clarification that it is of the issue. It took the ombudsman four years to put the position of the Opposition at this stage to support together, but it demonstrated a commitment to get to the Chadwick process. Perhaps later contributions the heart of a difficult issue. will help me to reconcile that with the sentence in the motion that he moved, in which he seeks to set a It is also fair to say that we did not wholly agree with clear timetable for implementing the ombudsman’s the ombudsman’s conclusions, although on many things recommendations, rather than acknowledging support we did agree. In nine out of 10 of her findings we agreed for the John Chadwick process. Perhaps we can return wholly or in part with the charge of maladministration, to the matter over the course of the afternoon. and in five areas we said that we believed that injustice followed. So it was not to provide a compensation for Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con): I think I have an regulatory failure, but to answer an ethical demand for interest to declare as a former Equitable Life policyholder. help that the Government proposed an ex gratia scheme How can the Chief Secretary promise to give a response be set up. to Chadwick in two weeks, when it took more than Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): I am grateful to the 10 times that long to give a response to the ombudsman? Minister for reiterating his apology and it is accepted in Is it because he has 10 times more confidence in the the spirit that it is offered. He will know that sadly some Government to be formed in May? policyholders will have passed away, so they will not hear that apology. Will their estates be in receipt of any Mr. Byrne: The ombudsman’s report is pretty substantial. compensation that is eventually given? It involved four years of work, and it was right that the Government considered it carefully. But I wanted to Mr. Byrne: Again, if the hon. Gentleman bears with give a commitment to respond to Sir John Chadwick’s me I will come to that point directly. final report within a couple of weeks because of the sentiment that has been expressed in the House, which Mr. Weir: If the Government accept that there has I have witnessed at close quarters since I became Chief been maladministration, surely the victims of that Secretary. maladministration are entitled to compensation. Yet Since the debate last October, I have laid two written instead the Government have gone down the route of a ministerial statements to keep hon. Members up to date simple ex gratia scheme, with no right to compensation with the progress of Sir John Chadwick’s work. Last for that maladministration. month, Sir John Chadwick and I had the opportunity to discuss the issues, some of which I hope will be aired Mr. Byrne: There is a principle, long accepted and this afternoon, with the all-party group on Equitable indeed long debated in the House, that there is not an Life. I should like to record my thanks to my hon. automatic right or an entitlement to compensation for Friend the Member for Leeds, North-East (Mr. Hamilton) regulatory failure. That was a characteristic of the and the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham compensation scheme that was put in place for failures (Daniel Kawczynski) for organising such an excellent as far back as Barlow Clowes. None the less there is an event. ethical demand to have a compensation scheme set up. I This afternoon, I want to set out the Government’s have sought to deliver a payment scheme that meets the approach and put on the record in Hansard my response imperative to act, to deliver it swiftly and to ensure that to some of the questions that have already been flagged the right people are included. up by right hon. and hon. Members. I want now to say a word or two about the approach that the Government have pursued and the rationale for it. All hon. Members agree that we need to establish a Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con): I thank the fair payment scheme as quickly as possible. The ombudsman Minister for the letter that he sent to each member of suggested a scheme that in her view could be up and the all-party group, which I found quite useful. In that running and complete its business within two and a half response he states: years, but her proposal relied on looking at regulatory “I am currently of the view that it is neither desirable nor returns. That has two consequences. First, it would administratively feasible to means test every individual policyholder.” entail a case-by-case review to understand who lost Does that mean that the payment, whenever it comes, what and why. That would involve looking at 30 million will directly relate to the pension that policyholders investment decisions by 1.5 million people over 20 years. paid for and expected but did not get, or can we Secondly, and to my mind more problematically, anticipate some other artificial reshuffle of the moneys individuals would have to prove that they relied on paid? regulatory returns. As the ombudsman said: “I find that injustice was sustained by any policyholder who Mr. Byrne: I will come to that point directly slightly relied on information contained in the Society’s returns for 1990 later in my remarks. to 1996”. 753 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 754

[Mr. Byrne] Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab): I had two policies with Equitable Life, and I am dismayed The Government simply did not think that such an at the delay by the slothful ombudsman and the approach would work. We therefore wanted Sir John Government’s delay.In seeing the matter through, however, Chadwick to look at a more expeditious and less risky I am resigned to the Chadwick process and, as such, will way of setting up a payment scheme. Rather than a vote with the Government tonight. I am pleased that case-by-case analysis, Sir John has proposed that we the process is likely to include deceased policyholders, look at different classes of policyholder—about 20 in but will my right hon. Friend indicate by what date he total—and then, for each class, assess relative loss with expects the first payments to be made, and by what date a comparator on which he has gone out to consultation. he expects the scheme to have been concluded and all the payments to have been made? Mr. Garnier: The Government’s amendment states that Mr. Byrne: Again, I shall come on to that point in a “Sir John expects to produce his final advice in May”. moment. When did the Government discuss with Sir John the likely return date of his report? Surely it would have Anne Main (St. Albans) (Con) rose— been a better and more just result had his report been produced well in advance of May, so that the public Robert Neill rose— could have studied it in the run-up to the election, rather than in the confusion after the election. Mr. Byrne: I shall make a little more progress before I give way. Mr. Byrne: I am not sure that I accept that there is confusion after an election, but the hon. and learned Anne Main: On the question of speed. Gentleman will accept that Sir John’s approach must be faster and simpler than looking at 30 million different Mr. Byrne: I shall come on to the question of speed investment decisions. In my conversations with Sir John and say a few things that will provoke a few more— Chadwick, when we discussed his timetable and, indeed, the resources that he needed, I wanted to ensure that he had the time and space to do a thorough job, so that Robert Neill: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way once a scheme was set up it could be completed as on the question of the method adopted? rapidly as possible. I do not think that I met Sir John without asking him whether he had all the resources Mr. Byrne indicated assent. that he needed. Some right hon. and hon. Members will be much Robert Neill: I am grateful, because the right hon. more familiar than I am with compensation schemes Gentleman said that he had decided to adopt a different that have been set up over the years, whether for Icelandic route from the method proposed by the ombudsman—that fishermen—a scheme that dates back two or three is to say, the route proposed by Sir John Chadwick. decades—or for injuries sustained in the coal mining Given that, and if there is to be no suggestion of industry. What characterises many of those schemes is cynicism, is it not all the more important that the right that they take years and years—sometimes decades—to hon. Gentleman takes on board the comment that run all the way through to a conclusion, and that several people made when he was present at the meeting sometimes they cost billions of pounds to administer. of the all-party group on justice for Equitable Life I wanted to ensure that we had a payment scheme that policy holders—namely, that there should be the maximum was up and operating quickly, and got through its transparency in disclosing the report’s methodology business as fast as possible. and the other working documents that were made available to Sir John Chadwick? If there is to be less than full Mr. Garnier: I understand all that, but the Government recompense, it is important that people know the basis stand charged with cynicism over the whole Equitable on which the pay-out—whatever it is—is ultimately Life saga. Surely, however, they could have avoided that arrived at. charge at least in relation to the date on which Sir John reports. It is no secret that there is likely to be an Mr. Byrne: Of course. Along with his third interim election in early May, and Sir John’s proposed report report, Sir John has published some detailed actuarial date is likely to be after the election. The Government studies. In some quarters—EMAG in particular—there are falling into their own trap: if it can be shown—and is concern that that is not enough detail. If there is a the suspicion must exist—that they have deliberately demand among right hon. and hon. Members for more decided to push back Sir John’s report until after the information, I will discuss with Sir John how we should election, they are going to land themselves with further make that available. Obviously, he and I will be legally accusations of cynicism. obliged to protect personal information, but I am sure that there is a way to accommodate the hon. Gentleman’s Mr. Byrne: I understand the hon. and learned point. Gentleman’s point. I have not approached the question If we compare the two approaches that the ombudsman with cynicism. I have approached the exercise, which and Sir John Chadwick are taking, we understand why has been one of the hardest I have had to confront since Sir John concluded that the approach suggested by the I have been at the Treasury, with only one concern: how ombudsman was at best unsatisfactory and—more likely— we get a payment scheme up and running quickly, in a impossible. On that basis, I am unable to agree with the way that minimises risk and allows us to complete the ombudsman’s assessment that her scheme would take exercise as rapidly as possible. only two and a half years to deliver. 755 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 756

I think that Sir John’s approach will be better and on an exercise where people were being overpaid, because faster, but his task is still difficult. He has to analyse it would be impossible, and quite wrong, to ask them about 2 million policies, to look at information dating for money back; that would be seen as reprehensible by back two decades on about 20 different types of policy all Members of this House. Sir John Chadwick therefore and to review about 200 different financial products. examines in his report a proposal for potentially expediting None the less, his approach avoids some of the more payments to particular groups once the scheme design difficult aspects of the ombudsman’s proposal and it is finalised, and suggests two such groups, as the hon. will lead, I think, to a simpler and administratively Lady will have seen. quicker scheme. Anne Main: I was pleased that when the Minister Barry Gardiner: My right hon. Friend has estimated came to see the all-party Equitable Life policy holders that the ombudsman’s report would have taken two and group, he said that the election date would not delay the a half years to implement. What is his estimate of the proceedings that are going on in the background. However, time it will take to implement Sir John Chadwick’s the all-party group also heard from some of the victims, report? who asked why no work was being done in parallel to clean up the data, as that would speed up delivery once Mr. Byrne: Let me come directly to that point. I do the decision was made on the criteria for who was going not think that we can estimate when the first payments to be eligible. Could he give us a little more information will begin to arrive, or when the process will be completed, about why that work is not being done? That work until we have Sir John’s final report in May. I say that would ensure that, having stopped one set of proceedings, for a simple reason. Until we are able to estimate, and we do not then come up with another lengthy procedure hear from Sir John about, the total bill and what the that needs to be gone through before anyone gets a right kind of compensation looks like, it will be difficult penny. for us to know or guess—and it would be wrong for us to attempt it—whether the right kind of compensation Mr. Byrne: That is an excellent point, and I will try to is cash or a different kind of financial services product. ensure that we respond to it over the course of the Equally, until we know who Sir John thinks it is appropriate debate. Some preparatory work is ongoing—for example, to include in the final design of the scheme, we will discussions with the DWP about possible delivery options. not know whether the scheme that we are running will I have also asked the Treasury to ensure that any be paying out to hundreds of thousands of people or clearing of the ground that is required for a procurement to millions. process is undertaken. The answers to these two questions have important consequences for how delivery arrangements should be Ms Sally Keeble (Northampton, North) (Lab): Has set up. A smaller scheme could probably be delivered the DWP talked to the Financial Services Compensation quite quickly—through the Department for Work and Scheme, which has enormous experience of data cleansing Pensions, for example. A more complicated scheme that and rapid processing of large volumes of claims, as with involved, for example, distributing financial services the Icelandic banks? products to Equitable Life policyholders, could require the Government to secure a delivery partner in another Mr. Byrne: Let me seek to provide an answer over the financial services company. That is why the answer to course of the debate. my hon. Friend’s question is difficult. I want to turn to two important points that hon. Members raised earlier. The first, which also came up in Susan Kramer (Richmond Park) (LD): Is not the the all-party group, is whether payments should be Minister himself making the argument for an interim made to the estates of policyholders who have passed scheme, at least as soon as Sir John Chadwick’s report is away. As promised, we have reflected on this. Based on laid? When it is, at least some groups will be clearly the evidence that I have seen to date, I feel strongly that identified as covered. they should be included in any scheme. I cannot see any Surely the Minister also recognises that Sir John’s rationale for treating their estates differently from those conclusions are likely to be challenged, as some are of any other policyholders. I think that is a view that the extremely contentious. I point again to the assumption House will share. We cannot pronounce on this categorically that, having opened a can of worms, the regulator until we see the final design of the scheme, but I thought would have taken only the lightest-touch action, that it important for the House to know the direction of the society would respond only in the lightest way and travel. that most of the mess would have been left in place. Secondly, several hon. Members have asked about Many of the assumptions are likely to be challenged means-testing. My assessment so far is that means-testing through judicial review, but people’s essential payments, would be neither administratively feasible nor desirable. at least, should not be delayed for that process. It would be an unwelcome complication that cannot, at this time, be seen in a positive light. Again, a final Mr. Byrne: As I promised, I asked Sir John Chadwick’s conclusion has to await Sir John’s final report, but I do advice on interim payments following our October debate. not think that means-testing should be our direction The difficulty is that when a scheme is produced there of travel. will be a cap on it—to cap liabilities to the public purse more generally.The difficulty with making interim payments Robert Neill: I am grateful to the Minister for having is that it is impossible to estimate, until the final scheme gone as far as he has. However, given that the Public is designed, whether the person has too much, too little Accounts Committee said that compensation was not a or about the right amount. I would not want to embark matter of charity but a matter of justice to rectify a 757 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 758

[Robert Neill] Several hon. Members rose— wrong, would it not be right for him to rule out means- Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Order. testing at this stage instead of giving qualifications Before I call the hon. Member for Twickenham about awaiting Sir John’s report? (Dr. Cable), I had better advise the House that the 15-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches is no longer Mr. Byrne: I am being a realist about it. Having appropriate in the light of the numbers of hon. Members contemplated what kind of administrative procedure seeking to catch my eye, so I give notice that it will be would have to be put in place to go through means-testing, reduced to nine minutes. I cannot see how in the world we would do it. 5.6 pm The third question, to return to the point raised by the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Susan Kramer), Dr. Vincent Cable (Twickenham) (LD): I will try to was about urgent payments. In the final scheme design, make your task a little easier, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I we should prioritise payments to those who have been had the privilege of introducing a debate on this subject particularly severely impacted by what has happened. on 21 October 2009, when I set out in considerable In his latest report, Sir John Chadwick provisionally detail the Liberal Democrats’ views on how the problem identified two groups: trapped annuitants and late joiners. should be dealt with, and I do not need to rehearse those arguments and the history again. There is a fair That is all that I wanted to say by way of response to degree of consensus, which was summed up by early-day the hon. Member for Fareham. motion 1423 in the last Session. The motion was signed by 351 Members, from all parties, which I believe is the Sir Paul Beresford rose— largest support for any such motion. On my quick arithmetic, that means that 70 per cent. of Members Mr. Byrne: Before I conclude, I will give way one last who are not on the Government payroll supported it. A time. considerable amount of work has been done since by the all-party group to reinforce that. Sir Paul Beresford: The Minister has nicely said, as I shall first discuss the practical issues raised by the far as I can tell, that he is not interested in means-testing. exchanges between the hon. Member for Fareham However, does he envisage a payment that is directly (Mr. Hoban) and the Chief Secretary. Since October, as related to that which the policyholders anticipated but the Chadwick process has ground on—we have now did not get, even if it is a proportion of the amount, or had the third interim report—and in the past few days, does he have some other artificial way of changing it? there has been a breakdown in the relationship with the policyholders group, which has consistently defended Mr. Byrne: The answer is yes—Sir John Chadwick the interests of policyholders throughout the process. has tried to compare the relative losses of different Initially, it worked in a constructive and positive way classes of policyholders. with Sir John Chadwick despite having reservations Let me conclude by saying that all Members of this about how the process was being conducted, but that House will have constituents who have been affected by relationship has now broken down. I do not believe that the injustice of Equitable Life, which now stretches the Minister addressed that problem. back almost two decades. We are committed to acting I have two suggestions for the Minister. First, nobody urgently and fairly, even in the current fiscal climate. is suggesting that we now go back and throw the work That approach is reflected in the Government’s proposed of the Chadwick commission into the waste-paper basket amendment to the motion. and start all over again. To be fair, as the hon. Member for Fareham said, we are where we are and we have to Rob Marris rose— operate from the current position. The legitimate concern of policyholders is the lack of independence in the Mr. Byrne: Before I finish, I will give way one final process and the role of the auditors, which I believe are time. appointed and paid for by the Treasury. If there were greater confidence that that process was genuinely Rob Marris: Forgive me, because I may have missed independent, much of the lost confidence could be it, but can my right hon. Friend say when he expects restored. Will the Minister consider how independent payments to start and when he expects them to be auditors who have the confidence of the policyholders finished? can be introduced to the process, perhaps alongside those already designated by the Treasury, to bring the Mr. Byrne: As I said a moment ago, I cannot this policyholders group back on board in the process? afternoon set out when payments will start, nor when We can argue whether it would have been better to they will finish, but I can commit to ensuring that the have gone down the tribunal route than the ombudsman Government’s response to the John Chadwick report, report route, but the policyholders group vehemently which will be published within two weeks of the report denies that matters are as complicated as the Minister being handed in, will include a delivery timetable, which made out. We can go over the history, but—given where will answer that question. we are—the key need is to establish the independence We have drafted the proposed amendment in a way and integrity of the process. Confidence has broken that reflects the debt that we owe to the ombudsman down, and we need to find a simple way in which that and accepts the obligations of the Government, but can be remedied. that none the less reaffirms our commitment to an The other issue that has arisen—and it is an immediate approach that we think will remedy this injustice as and practical one—is that of interim payments. All rapidly as possible. three of my colleagues who have intervened—my hon. 759 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 760

Friends the Members for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), thought out procedure. The ombudsman also made the for Richmond Park (Susan Kramer) and for Solihull specific recommendation of an independent tribunal-like (Lorely Burt)—made that point, and I heard the Minister’s process. We know that the Government have rejected reply. I can understand the theoretical problem—that that, but the key point was independence, and that is the interim payments might collectively be greater than what is lacking from the present proceedings. We then a cap that might be imposed—but it is a rather academic had talk about “rapid”, “transparent” and “simple” objection. We are, after all, talking about a narrow solutions to compensation, but again, we have not had category of people whom we all agree should be “rapid”, we probably have not had “transparent”, and compensated—the trapped annuitants and the late entrants. we certainly have not had “simple”. The question is: Nobody is now disputing that. It also concerns a modest how do we get past that stage? part of the compensation to which they will ultimately I will leave the Minister with the thought that introducing be entitled. So it is not clear why this relatively modest an independent element into the actuarial process at but rapid intervention of making interim payments this stage may restore some of the confidence that has should hit the financial ceiling, unless the Government been lost. If the Government are now willing to look at envisage a ceiling that is ridiculously and unreasonably interim payments through the Chadwick process, that low. I hope that the Government will take a fresh look would go some way—probably a limited way, but some at the interim payment issue, because the objection way at least—to stemming the anger and frustration advanced is not very credible. that a lot of policyholders feel. If those two steps could be taken—a greater degree of independence in the auditing process, which is very 5.15 pm complex and which no hon. Member is equipped to deal with technically, to restore the confidence of the Mr. Fabian Hamilton (Leeds, North-East) (Lab): We policyholders, and the introduction of an interim payments are here again to debate Equitable Life because we all scheme—much of the current suspicion about what is have constituents who continue to suffer, as hon. Members happening would be defused, and we would be back on have said throughout the debate. However, I am a little track. That is the substantive point that I wish to make, dismayed and disturbed that the issue is becoming a but I shall briefly summarise the two overriding concerns party political football, although I suppose that that is that Members have expressed throughout the debate. inevitable with a general election fast approaching. I remind all right hon. and hon. Members present for the The first is the cumulative delay. We can argue about debate—instigated, I accept, by the Opposition—that whether a particular step was reasonable or not, but it is we are here today for one reason: to ensure that those the cumulative impact of a decade of delay that has who have suffered as a result of the Equitable Life caused so much anxiety and anger. The second is the scandal are properly compensated and that they stop integrity of the ombudsman process and our responsibility suffering. For the 15 policyholders a day who are dying— as a House for upholding the ombudsman’s authority. 15 policyholders who will never see justice—we know On the first issue, it is worth—without going into the that their estates are compensated, as I believe the Chief long and sordid history—recalling the milestones in this Secretary indicated, and as the Government amendment decade-long process. We had the four years to Penrose, certainly indicates. who indeed criticised the delays in establishing his report. It is a real shame that the issue has become so Then there were the three years to the ombudsman’s partisan. I thank the hon. Member for Fareham report and then the 18-month delay in the publication (Mr. Hoban) very much for his kind remarks, but he of the ombudsman’s report through the Maxwellisation said that the Government were trying to block, frustrate stage, followed by the Government’s response, which and delay the process. That might have been the case in was not satisfactory.Then came the ombudsman’s response the early days, and we all regret that. I certainly made it to the Government, then the various challenges, including clear in my Adjournment debate last June that I regretted judicial review and the Public Administration Committee’s it, and my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase report. Then we had the six-month delay until the (Dr. Wright), the Chairman of the Public Administration Chadwick process got under way, and the next series of Committee, has done so too. However, we now have a steps that we are now encountering. Any one of those process that perhaps many of us would not have wanted, delays could be excused and explained, but the cumulative but which is none the less approaching its conclusion. effect of the Treasury foot-dragging is great ill-will and I am glad that the hon. Gentleman made it clear that is the reason why Members on both sides of the House the Opposition would see that process through, should keep returning to this issue. It is also why the 1 million they win the general election. people affected by this issue are so frustrated. We had an Opposition day debate on 21 October last The second overriding issue is the authority of the year, to which the hon. Member for Twickenham ombudsman. It is worth recalling that 351 of us said, (Dr. Cable) referred. My debate, which was an hour and when we signed the early-day motion, that this House a half-long debate in Westminster Hall, was held on “reaffirms the duty of Parliament to support the office of the 24 June last year. The all-party group on justice for Ombudsman; believes the Government should accept the Equitable Life policyholders held a meeting on 24 February recommendations of the Ombudsman on compensating policyholders —less than a month ago—which Sir John Chadwick who have suffered loss”. was able to attend, thanks to a little pressure from me We can argue about whether the ombudsman’s process and the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham was the best, but its principles were clear, and one of (Daniel Kawczynski), co-chairman with me of the all-party them was that compensation was right, and that it group. Chadwick answered some questions—some should take place according to the principle of remedies: Members got some answers—but I share the view that we are not talking about arbitrary compensation with the hon. Member for Twickenham expressed, which is figures plucked from the sky, but about a carefully that the lack of independence of which EMAG has 761 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 762

[Mr. Fabian Hamilton] crucial to many of them. As I said during my Adjournment debate, EMAG told the Public Administration Committee been so critical was quite evident in Sir John’s remarks that on 24 February. It was a shame indeed—we have already “the majority of Equitable Life’s policyholders had modest sized made our view clear—that the room was so inconvenient pensions and were not ‘fat cats’ who ‘risked their money to get that not all Members who wanted to ask questions were above average returns’. In particular, the average investment of able to do so. the half million individual policyholders amounted to £45,000 each, which in today’s money would buy a pension paying around As hon. Members know, I have been very critical, but £75 per week”. the aim of my criticism—I hope that this is the aim of everybody’s criticism of the Government—is to improve That is why it is so important that EMAG continues to the chances that those who have had justice denied as a support, lobby, push and, ultimately, try to obtain justice. result of what happened at Equitable Life will get that justice. That is what we are here to do, and we must not Martin Horwood: The hon. Gentleman has praises forget that. EMAG. Does he share its concern about the way in which the Chadwick process is evolving? That is underlined Mr. Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): by its submissive language, which refers to I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, but “what factors the Government may wish to take into account after 10 years of obfuscation and delay, which have when considering which policyholders have experienced caused mass injustice to so many people, is it not right disproportionate impact”. that, as we approach a general election, people should That does not sound as directive as we would wish. We be able to look at Labour’s record on this issue and may end up with a process that will not lead to the quick come to the same conclusion that we do, which is that if resolution that we all seek. people want justice, they need to vote for a change? We have had 10 years of a failure of justice, and the hon. Mr. Hamilton: I hope that the hon. Gentleman is Gentleman has been honourable in pointing that out, wrong, and I hope that EMAG is wrong. I was about to but it is also worth pointing out that it is his party—the say that I did not approve of EMAG’s recent action in Government—who have carried out that injustice. pulling away from the Chadwick process. I think that many Members share my belief that, however much we Mr. Hamilton: We now have a chance to put things regret the fact that the Treasury introduced the process, right and do what we have not done so far. I think that the fact is that we have the process now and we must see that is finally happening on this side of the House, and it through to its conclusion. I believe that that is the that is why I want to see the Chadwick process completed. only way in which we can secure the compensation that The question about timing that my hon. Friend the policyholders need and deserve as quickly as is humanly Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris)— possible from this moment onwards, whatever has happened who has now left the Chamber—put to the Chief Secretary in the past. is critical. I thank the hon. Member for Fareham for his kind Anne Main: I asked the Chief Secretary why there remarks about the work that the hon. Member for was not a parallel process of cleaning up the data, but I Shrewsbury and Atcham and I have been doing in the did not receive an answer. The hon. Gentleman praises all-party group. I also commend the Chief Secretary on the Chief Secretary for trying to put things right. Cleaning his openness. I think all Members will agree that he up the data would be a simple way of trying to put tried hard when he attended a meeting of the group. He things right. A Labour Member—the hon. Member for listened to what we had to say, but it was clear that he Northampton, North (Ms Keeble)—asked whether the was also attempting to make up for the years in which Treasury was liaising with the Department for Work nothing had been done—although we should bear in and Pensions, but again there was no answer. There are mind that it took the ombudsman four years to complete more things that could be done. Let us be critical about her report. this, in a cross-party way. I strongly support what the amendment says about compensation. It states that Mr. Hamilton: I entirely agree. I am not suggesting for a moment that everything that the Chief Secretary “there is a strong case for policyholders who have passed away to be included in the scheme”. has done is perfect. The cleaning up of data was raised at the all-party group meeting, but we have not received That point also arose when the Chief Secretary addressed a definitive answer, and we need one. I hope that we will the all-party group. However, one word is missing from be given that answer in the winding-up speech, because the amendment. It ends with the words it is important that the data is cleaned up so that the “and recognises the impact and significant distress that people who need and deserve compensation receive it maladministration and injustice have caused in respect of Equitable when we finally have a scheme. The issue today, however, Life”. is what resolution we secure in the House, what debate The missing word is “policyholders”. We seem to be we engage in and what decisions we make will best forgetting that individuals are involved, and we should achieve our common aim, which is to ensure that not do so. compensation is paid as rapidly as is humanly possible I thank EMAG because although—as the hon. Member from this day forward. for Twickenham reminded us—it has pulled away from We have not yet had an answer on when the scheme the process following Sir John Chadwick’s third interim will begin and end. The Chief Secretary made it clear report, it has constantly reminded every single Member that he could not answer that question until he had seen that this is an issue for his or her constituents and is Sir John’s final report, which is a great shame. 763 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 764

Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): The hon. This entire episode is not only bad in respect of the Gentleman says that we do not know when the Chief facts of what has happened, but it stands as a metaphor Secretary will be able to give an answer, but the for the way in which this Government behave. We have a Government’s amendment contains a commitment that Government who appear not only to be prepared wholly they will to ignore or sideline the decisions of the ombudsman, “respond with details of a payment scheme within two weeks of an office set up by Parliament to protect the interests receiving this advice”, of the citizens of this country. They are also prepared and we are due to receive that advice at the end of May, to suggest in their amendment that the Government are we not, whatever the failings of the process? recognise—although they pretend that it is the House that recognises this— “the vital role the Ombudsman plays in public life” Mr. Hamilton: I apologise if the hon. Gentleman has misunderstood the point I was trying to make. I am and reaffirm very pleased that the Government are committed to “the duty of Parliament to support the office of the Ombudsman”. giving a response within two weeks, but my point is that If that were actually true—if the Government actually we do not yet know when the payments will begin—indeed, believed what they had written in the motion—we would we will not know that until they begin—or when they not be where we are now, as this matter would have been will be completed. resolved, if not in exactly the same way that the ombudsman suggested, at least through something a little more I recently met Chris Wiscarson, the new chief executive similar to it and many years ago. of Equitable Life, and I know that other Members have Not only are we left waiting for Sir John Chadwick’s also met him. I thank him for his engagement with final review to report—I appreciate that a number of Parliament and hon. Members in order to ensure that, interim reports have been published—but, as I said to as leader of Equitable Life, he is focused on the the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the Government policyholders and on trying to reduce his overheads have cynically adjusted the timetable so that the review and what he calls the bottom line—the expenses involved will be published or will apparently at least come to be in running the organisation—to the absolute minimum, considered by the Government after the likely date of so that the maximum amount is available for policyholders. the general election. Nobody is in any doubt as to likely I commend him for that. date of the election, nor have they been for many Turning to the Chadwick process, Sir John will give months. I have no doubt that the Treasury, at both his final advice to the Government in May. He is looking official and political level, has so adjusted Sir John’s into the details of 2 million policies, so he has to get this timetable and so constrained his remit to enable the right. As we are dealing with about 2 million policies, Government to shuffle off into opposition after 6 May the data must be clean. The Government said they will with a view to washing their hands completely of this respond to Chadwick within two weeks of receiving his terrible saga. report, but a literal interpretation of the ombudsman’s Meanwhile, my constituents and those of many other findings would mean excluding at the very least trapped hon. Members will have to deal with the human problem: annuitants, which— the loss of their pension rights and their investments, which they so carefully placed into Equitable Life. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I must interrupt the hon. These people are not spendthrifts; they have deliberately Gentleman’s speech now. He was, perhaps, a little too attempted to save for their old age. These are the people generous in allowing interventions. this Government have let down. One again places this issue in the context of the first decision made by the then Chancellor of the Exchequer when he arrived in 5.27 pm No. 11 Downing street in 1997 to adjust—I put that neutrally—the whole matter of advance corporation Mr. Edward Garnier (Harborough) (Con): I shall tax. That, together with what has happened in this endeavour not to use up my nine minutes, but let us see case, illustrates this Government’s view of the private howwego. pensions sector. First, may I declare an interest? I am a current When one looks at our motion, which I wholly support, Equitable Life policyholder, and also a former one, in one sees a collection of facts, at the end of which one that I held other policies that I managed to extract from sees a conclusion based on those true facts. The conclusion that bottomless pit and move to other pension providers. is that an “injustice” has been done and it needs Like so many other Members, I also represent a large “remedying”. The Government seem to be reluctant to number of constituents who have been grievously do anything practical about it. The anger, frustration affected by this saga. Although I speak with a degree of and the slow process that the public suffer as a consequence disappointment on my own behalf, I speak with a great of the Government’s cynical attempt to delay things deal of anger on behalf of my constituents, many of until after the election is not just something that comes whom have very little apart from their defunct Equitable out as a rhetorical flourish during the debate—it is real. Life pensions and other small pension entitlements I suggest that those on the Treasury Bench should from either the state or company pension schemes. They acquaint themselves with what the public actually feel. are on their uppers. They are really struggling to make Given the all-party concern about this issue, I suspect ends meet, and they are having to do so at a time when that plenty of these poor Labour Members of Parliament interest rates are historically low and therefore such who represent the governing party but who have the other savings that they have are producing a very low honour to represent people whose Equitable Life return. That is the backdrop against which my constituents investments have been completely scythed are having to are having to watch the Government continually delay describe to their constituents what the Government are this process. doing in words in which they have little faith. 765 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 766

[Mr. Edward Garnier] The Government amendment states that the “establishment of an ex gratia payment scheme, and the terms of The Chief Secretary, in his usual way, spoke quietly reference given to Sir John Chadwick were a rational response to and with apparent understanding of the plight of the Ombudsman’s report”. policyholders, but if one analyses what he said during How weak. They were a “rational” response. They were the 20 or 30 minutes of his speech, one finds that he said not appropriate, or sympathetic, or moral, but they nothing. A proper deconstruction of his speech will were rational—if the end that one wished to achieve lead one to the conclusion that he was almost playing a was to minimise the cost and delay the payments. Rationality game with the public and policyholders; it was as if is always important and necessary, but it is scarcely ever somebody was reaching for a prize only to see it pulled a sufficient in matters of public policy. little further away each time they got within six inches In 2002, I believe, I spoke in the first debate on or so of it. Likewise, we see the outcome of the Chadwick Equitable Life and urged swift action then. In 2008, review being pushed and pushed further away from not when the ombudsman presented her report, the only resolution, but from this Government’s responsibility. Government were wrong to consider that it was reasonable I suggest to the House that the Government’s conduct is to delay a further six months before responding and not just cynical, but irresponsible, and deliberately so. then to challenge her findings in the court. The Government There is no question but that much of what the acted as though they believed that the clock started Government say in their amendment is deeply questionable. when the ombudsman produced her report in July 2008. I have already referred to the cynical way in which they In fact, for policyholders the clock had started in 2001. have attempted to support the ombudsman, despite the It has now been running for nine years and during that fact that their actions demonstrate an entirely different time many policyholders—some 40,000, according to motive. However, the amendment goes on to state that Treasury advice—have now died. The Government have the House suggested in their amendment that “notes that Sir John expects to produce his final advice in May” “there is a strong case for policyholders who have passed away to and be included”. “welcomes the Government’s commitment to respond with details It is of course right that the estates of the deceased of a payment scheme within two weeks of receiving this advice”. should benefit, but that is of little comfort to those who My suspicion—I have some knowledge of the workings each month draw closer to the end of their lives without of government—is that Sir John’s recommendations the financial means for which they had prudently planned will be known to the Government in advance of the and saved. general election. They will be preparing their response— The hon. Member for Fareham has indicated that he probably now, in advance of Sir John’s recommendations accepts that we are, in his words, “where we are”. He being produced—but they will stick it in a cupboard also made it clear that an incoming Conservative and wait to see what the result of the election will be. If Government would accept and continue with the Sir John they win, they will further delay the Government response Chadwick process. Insofar as that is the case, I find the and produce a timetable for implementation that will Opposition motion as it stands to be somewhat confused, take us still further away from May. If they lose, they because it refers to implementing “the Ombudsman’s will be able to say, “Well, we are no longer the Government. recommendations”. It is up to the Conservative Government.” It will be up Earlier, I asked the hon. Member for Fareham to clarify to my hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr. Osborne) the matter by saying whether his party intended to do to sort this out, and the Government will swing quietly anything in addition to Chadwick, perhaps by implementing off into the distance. The Government kindly state that elements of the ombudsman’s recommendations on top they note that of Chadwick. I also asked what the timetable might be. “to abandon the Chadwick process so close to completion would The answer that I received was that it would be Chadwick, add delay and hardship for policyholders”. and that implementation would occur early in the early We know that that is impractical. There is no way an in the life of the next Government. That strikes me as incoming Conservative Government could in fairness the common position of both the Government and the or in practical terms do away with the Chadwick process. official Opposition. That being the case, I would simply This whole saga demonstrates to me a lack of good press for additional steps to be taken, and in particular faith, a lack of planning and a lack of appreciation of for interim payments to be made to surviving policyholders the plight of innocent policyholders. It is utterly shaming. as soon as possible after we have all seen the Chadwick report. 5.36 pm 5.41 pm Barry Gardiner (Brent, North) (Lab): This Government have done many, many things of which I am immensely Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): proud. They have done nothing of which I am more Many of my constituents in Shrewsbury who are Equitable ashamed than their handling of, and prevarication over, Life policyholders have come to see me in my surgery. Equitable Life. The problem with Equitable Life was Their sheer frustration and misery as a result of what always to balance speed with fairness and to ensure that has happened led me, together with the hon. Members the scope of the compensation was correct. The hon. for Leeds, North-East (Mr. Hamilton) and for Richmond Member for Fareham (Mr. Hoban), who spoke for the Park (Susan Kramer), to set up the all-party group for Opposition, was correct to criticise the Government’s justice for Equitable Life policyholders. I am very grateful failure adequately to grasp the urgency with which the that various people have referred to the work that we Government ought to have responded to the ombudsman’s have tried to do on a cross-party basis to bring this issue report in July 2008. to the forefront of parliamentary debate. I am particularly 767 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 768 pleased that we are having this debate today, and that “Careful evaluation of his convoluted 109-page third interim the Conservative party should have used one of its report…demonstrates he’s not listening to any representations Opposition days to enable us to discuss these issues still other than those of the Treasury—his paymasters—and he’s further. merely re-trying the case which was done independently and well by the parliamentary ombudsman. It’s as if the judicial review To begin with, I was extremely concerned that Sir John hadn’t happened.” Chadwick would not come to see us and interact with There Mr. Braithwaite makes a critical point. We have us. I was appalled that a person in his position could had the adjudication of the parliamentary ombudsman. disregard Parliament and parliamentarians and behave As various hon. Members have stated, we have repeatedly in such a way, but we finally managed to get him and rehearsed the arguments as to what should be done, and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to speak to the yet in my opinion the Chadwick process is a classic way all-party group on 24 February. of kicking things into the long grass. I have never seen a room more crowded than on that Mr. Nick Bellord, an EMAG director, says: day. It was standing room only. It was so encouraging to “In summary, ‘The Chadwick Process’ has been a shameful see how many Members of Parliament, from all political charade to which EMAG is surprised that a retired Appeal Court parties, tried to attend to the meeting on behalf of their Judge (albeit hand picked) has lent his name. The regulators constituents. They wanted to put questions directly to allowed a Ponzi fraud to develop over nine years. The Treasury the Minister and Sir John Chadwick, and I am very fathered and nursed a fraudulent reassurance treaty when the pleased that we have been able to distribute to every crisis arose in 1999 and ever since has not failed to stoop to every Member of Parliament copies of the questions posed kind of cover-up, delay and low trick to escape the full truth being and of the replies that we received from the Minister. revealed—it is not just the failure to pay any compensation after a further decade—but the hiding of disgraceful behaviour by a What concerned me profoundly is that, when the major Office of State.” Minister left the meeting, we then interviewed the current Everyone who has spoken in this debate has spoken chief executive of Equitable Life, Mr. Chris Wiscarson. about the need to continue with the Chadwick process. He said, in front of all of us, that he had written The Minister challenged my hon. Friend the Member repeatedly to the Minister asking to interact with him for Fareham (Mr. Hoban) as to what the Conservative and his Department. He wanted various forms of party would do, should we enter office after the next communication to take place between Equitable Life election. Interestingly, it would appear that there is no and the Minister’s Department, but he told all of the alternative now, given where we are, but to continue MPs assembled that not only had he received no reply, with the Chadwick process. But so frustrated and he had received no acknowledgement whatsoever. demoralised are members of EMAG—the key words The Minister stood at that Dispatch Box this afternoon that I want to use are “frustrated”and “demoralised”—that and said repeatedly how important the process is, and Mr. Braithwaite says in his note to me: how passionately he believes in trying to resolve it in a “The right thing to do is to disregard the remit given to Sir speedy and timely manner. However, if those are his John, although keeping the database developed by the Treasury’s genuine views, he needs to sit down with Mr. Wiscarson actuaries, establish the independent tribunal as recommended by very soon: he must afford the current chief executive of the parliamentary ombudsman and commit to the compensation Equitable Life the opportunity of a meeting to put process that the parliamentary ombudsman proposed. That’s an forward his concerns and suggestions. urgent priority for the next Parliament.” So I am getting from Mr. Braithwaite a slightly different Anne Milton (Guildford) (Con): Does my hon. Friend understanding of the situation, because I believe that he agree that that only adds to the anger, frustration and and other members of EMAG have lost so much confidence increasing cynicism of my constituents and many others in the Chadwick process that even at this stage they around the country? may be prepared to throw it out and go back to the parliamentary ombudsman’s findings. Daniel Kawczynski: Yes, absolutely. Far more I am very heartened that my hon. Friend the Member transparency is needed throughout the process. for Fareham has stated that the Leader of the Opposition is determined to sort this matter out very quickly should We saw what happened when the Government decided we be elected to office. I suggest to my colleagues on the to bail out the individuals, councils and other institutions Front-Bench that, should the Conservative party be who had invested in an Icelandic bank—Icesave. Huge elected to office in May, an urgent meeting should be set amounts of effort went into supporting those individuals up with EMAG at the earliest opportunity so that we and organisations. I simply do not understand why that can work with it constructively to sort the process out level of urgency and commitment has not been forthcoming once and for all. on this issue. I pay tribute to Mr. Paul Braithwaite of EMAG. He 5.50 pm is a gentleman with whom I have interacted repeatedly on this issue and I pay tribute to his hard work and Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North) (Lab): May I, too, dedication in pursuing this matter. He has sent me a few declare a modest interest in Equitable Life, having made points which I should like to raise in the debate. EMAG some additional voluntary contributions under the issued a press release, explaining why parliamentary scheme at the beginning of my time in “we are walking away in disgust, after active engagement for the House? No doubt, I have made a small loss, but that months acting in good faith, from ‘The Chadwick process’.” is not why I am speaking today. I am speaking on behalf I would highlight the phrase, of the millions of people who have lost substantial sums and will be seriously affected. People in our position “walking away in disgust”. who have made small losses can bear them, but others The word “disgust” is critical. cannot. We must all be aware that the difference between 769 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 770

[Kelvin Hopkins] I am sad to say that, on this, there seems to be little difference between the Front Benchers on both sides of having a basic state pension and having a basic state the House. I am sure that if the Conservatives had been pension plus £75 a week is equivalent to a real difference in government at the relevant time, they would behaved in living standards. very similarly to how the Labour Government behaved. I am a member of the Select Committee on Public Indeed, they might have delayed and prevaricated even Administration, which is chaired so brilliantly by my more. I think that the hon. Member for Fareham hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright). (Mr. Hoban) gave the game away when he said that we We unanimously supported the ombudsman’s report had to take account of the cost to the public purse. The and we wanted urgent action to be taken to respond to Government’s failure to regulate led to the loss of the needs of Equitable Life members who lost out. In billions of pounds of ordinary people’s money, and retrospect, my reaction to these matters would have there was a moral obligation on the Government to put been to do the same as with Northern Rock. I would that right. It is interesting to note that the Public have taken Equitable Life into public ownership and Accounts Committee said that it was not just about underwritten all its pensions. That solution was not cost, but that a question of justice was involved. It was considered by either side of the House to be in the spirit absolutely right about that. of the times, but I am afraid that both sides have been The nonsense about market forces was another factor wrong on this matter. We have subsequently reinvented in the equation. The idea was that we were buying the idea of public ownership in the financial sector. something from a market. If someone put all their That is a good thing and I would like to see more of it money into an organisation that was meant to ensure in future. that they could live a decent life in their old age, and the There are wider lessons to be learned from this matter, Government said that it was regulated, that person particularly about regulation. The original apostles of would expect the relevant moneys to be paid to them deregulation were, of course, the Conservatives, but, when they retired. If that money was lost, someone regrettably, the Labour party followed in their footsteps. could not just say, “Well, I’ll change my provider and go I disagreed with that approach from the beginning. to another organisation.” During the financial crisis a Some of my left-leaning hon. Friends with more traditional few years ago there was a surge of people trying to get socialist views were put on the Select Committee on their cash into national savings because they are Deregulation when they first came to the House and the underwritten by the Government. They wanted to get first thing that they suggested was renaming it as the their money away from the private sector. Select Committee on Re-regulation. I thought that a In future, we must look to ensuring greater public splendid idea, although it was said in jest. involvement in the financial sector in general terms, not The Equitable Life case concerns a failure of regulation. just in respect of such savings policies. We must look At first, it was regulated by the old Board of Trade and towards having more certain public provision for pensions. the Department of Trade and Industry, but its regulation I said in yesterday’s Work and Pensions questions that was then passed to the Treasury and then to the Financial there will come a time when the Government will have Services Authority. At each stage, the degree of regulation to establish a compulsory SERPS—state earnings-related got weaker. I am amazed at the Treasury’s actions pension scheme—for all because occupational pension because it should have realised that if it did not regulate schemes are failing, declining and disappearing, and properly, it might, in time, have to pay the bill. That was private savings companies are often of very poor value, one of the Treasury’s many failures of the past two or with a third of the value of one’s savings going on three decades of which I have been a severe critic. Those administration, advertising and whatever. failures were passed on to the FSA, and who can blame it? It was told, “The mood and culture now is for Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): That, of course, light-touch regulation and deregulation,” so it did not is why it is so important to get the Equitable Life push very hard. Of course, we have seen to our cost payments out as soon as possible—to rebuild confidence what has happened elsewhere in the financial sector. in the belief that the moral question has at least been From the beginning, the bail-out costs might have totalled faced up to. £5 billion. That does not seem like very much now, given what has happened with the banks, but at that Kelvin Hopkins: Indeed. I thank my hon. Friend for time, £5 billion was, no doubt, a figure to make some his helpful intervention. Treasury officials and Ministers wrinkle their brows. The root cause of the problem lay with regulation There is a lesson for us all to learn. In future, there and the culture of deregulation. In some areas of regulation will have to be much more state involvement in provision there is an inherent contradiction in that regulatory for old age and much more certainty about what we do bodies have to regulate on one hand to make sure that with our money. A state scheme would not only provide lots of profits are made and on the other to make sure more security for our savings but would be much more that they protect policyholders and consumers. The rail efficient, with guaranteed returns at the end of the day. regulator has responsibility for making sure that the It would not be stock market related, or dependent on railways perform very well financially, but also for stock markets or interest rates, but would offer defined ensuring that they are safe. That presents a contradiction, benefits for all who saved with it, which would in time and that is why I believe that certain areas of our be the majority of the population. economy ought to be in public ownership and accountable As I have said many times in recent weeks and to this House, which can take all the factors into months, the way to solve the cost problems facing the consideration and make sure that the public interest is Government not only in relation to Equitable Life but properly represented. We would have to accept the cost in general is to start collecting the vast amounts of tax to the public purse of doing that. that the Treasury fails to collect. The gap between what 771 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 772 the Government could receive and what they actually they hope they will be made. Thousands of policyholders receive in tax is said to be at least £100 billion a have died, and given that the average age is 79, payments year—this week, I saw the figure of £175 billion—which have to be made quickly to the rest of them. I would is a staggering amount of money. If we collected just a therefore wish to support those who argue for interim quarter of that money, we would solve all our problems payments. After all, EMAG estimates that of 54,000 very quickly. Most of that money would be paid by Equitable with-profits annuitants in 2002—the year in wealthy companies and wealthy people, not by ordinary which pensions were cut—10,000 have died. The surviving people, and it would be enormously beneficial to the 44,000 have an average age of 79, so it is not unreasonable economy and to Government resources. Now that I to call for an interim payment equivalent to two years’ have made my point about regulation and have used up pension to be paid to all of them. The sum, which my time, I shall sit down, but I am pleased to have had EMAG estimates to be £214 million, could be deducted this opportunity to speak. from the final settlement, so all those annuitants would receive at least some money. 5.59 pm Delay has characterised this whole sorry saga. As my Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): I think that we should right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition has record the sadness of the occasion in debates such as said, the Government have repeatedly put this off. In a this. This issue is sad and tragic for all the Equitable sick way, I think that they are waiting for people to die. Life policyholders who did the right thing throughout If that is the Government’s policy, it is unbelievably their lives. They were prudent and they saved, and they depressing. The whole history is one of delay. As long are exactly the sort of people whom we should support. ago as July 2008, the parliamentary ombudsman published We should not lose sight of the fact that they are all a report on Equitable Life, which recommended that individual victims of what has happened. There is, payments should be made to policyholders to reflect the understandably, a danger that we will simply debate the relative loss resulting from maladministration, subject process and what the ombudsman or Chadwick should to the state of the public finances. The Government do and how the matter should be handled. We all have a promised to respond on several dates in 2008, but did large number of constituents, many of whom we have not reply until January 2009. For example, on 3 December got to know personally as a consequence of the long 2008, the Prime Minister told the House: time that this has taken, who have suffered considerably, “There will be a statement before the House rises at Christmas.”— and continue to suffer. [Official Report, 3 December 2008; Vol. 485, c. 38.] No statement was made. We should never forget the damage done to confidence in savings and the pensions system as a whole. Ten years It is now a year since the Government made a statement ago, Britain’s pension system was considered a model to the House on 15 January 2009 responding to the for others to follow.The low state pension was supplemented ombudsman’s report. The then Chief Secretary to the by good employer and personal pensions, and the majority Treasury, the right hon. Member for Pontefract and of workers seemed to be heading for a reasonable Castleford (Yvette Cooper), said that compensation retirement. Equity markets were booming, interest and would be paid to policyholders who had suffered annuity rates were high, and actuaries and investment “disproportionately”, but she did not set out a timetable advisers believed that good pensions were easily affordable. or define what that word meant. That was in January Over the past decade, however, our pension system has 2009, but Equitable Life policyholders are no further disintegrated, workers’ retirement plans have not turned forward, although she said: out as expected, and many people face the prospect of “We agree that there has been maladministration in particular an impoverished old age if they do not keep working. areas, and…that Government action is merited…I wish to apologise Private sector employers have abandoned final salary to policyholders on behalf of the public bodies and successive Governments responsible for the regulation of Equitable Life schemes, and confidence has generally been shattered. between 1990 and 2001 for the maladministration we believe has These debates are sad, because in the past decade we taken place…we also want to focus on those who have been have witnessed the meltdown of our once-thriving hardest hit.” —[Official Report, 15 January 2009; Vol. 486, retirement savings culture. We need to get back to a c. 377-78.] culture of savings and thrift. Of course, people who Those who have been hardest hit are still waiting for invested in Equitable Life could in no way be accused of something to happen. They keep being told that a new being anything other than prudent. After all, Equitable form of process is going to take place. If I were an Life was the world’s oldest mutual, established way Equitable Life policyholder, I would be concerned if the back in 1762. Many people who invested in it were Government were returned at the election, because, lawyers and professionals who had every confidence in although they might respond within two weeks of receiving its being a reliable, redoubtable institution, so it has the Chadwick report, they would find yet further means been a really sad day for them. to delay payment. This debate may, in some ways, turn on narrow Let us not forget that the Public Administration points. On the process, the Government have said that Committee labelled the Government’s approach they will respond within two weeks of the final Chadwick “constitutionally dubious and procedurally improper”. report. Pretty well everyone in the House is cynical It said that it was “morally unacceptable” that the about the fact that the final report will not be published ombudsman had to take the highly unusual step of until May this year. The Government have signally publishing a special report as a result of her disappointment failed to say—and I did not think that the Chief Secretary’s with Government inaction. The ombudsman concluded explanation was very convincing—when payments will in that report: commence, and when they will be completed. It is not “The Government’s response to my report was deeply difficult for them to give an indication of when they disappointing. It provided insufficient support for the rejection of hope that payments will begin and over what period my findings of maladministration and injustice.” 773 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 774

[Tony Baldry] As a result, it is with unfortunate cynicism that I greet the news that Sir John Chadwick is now committed to The High Court upheld the view that the Government giving his final report on Equitable Life in May, with unlawfully rejected the ombudsman’s finding of regulatory the Government offering to respond to him within two failure. weeks of that. Given that we all know that that is likely This has been a saga not just of delay by the Government, to be after a general election, I fear that the Government but of prevarication, incurring the criticism and wrath are once again playing politics with the lives of many of of every single regulatory body, from the ombudsman my constituents by extending the hope of a resolution to the Public Administration Committee and the courts. but ducking the responsibility of its enactment. Here we are, all this time later, and those who have Policyholders may be forgiven for not having much suffered as a consequence of the collapse of Equitable faith in this latest round bearing fruit, either. After all, Life are no closer to knowing when they are going to the ombudsman published her report on Equitable Life receive any money. back in July 2008, but it was not until January the I shall conclude with two points. First, I hope that a following year that the Government finally responded, commitment can be made to provide interim payments after which their partial rejection of her findings was and, secondly, I hope that the contribution of my hon. overturned by the High Court. Many now suspect that Friend the Member for Fareham (Mr. Hoban) and, I Sir John’s review is little more than a Treasury stitch-up am sure, that of my hon. Friend the Member for that seeks to negate the four years of work by the Hammersmith and Fulham (Mr. Hands), who will conclude ombudsman. Paul Braithwaite, the general secretary of the debate on behalf of the Opposition, will reassure EMAG, has been mentioned a number of times during policyholders that an incoming Conservative Government the debate. As he says: will get to grips with this immediately and ensure that “The Treasury is attempting to retry the case, using actuarial sophistry to distort the figures. . . The logical conclusion of this we make payments to those who have suffered as a sham process is that the Government will deny all obligation to result of the collapse of Equitable Life as speedily as compensate policyholders for the damage done by serial possible. There is a Latin tag, sine mora, which means maladministration and only paltry discretionary payments will be without delay, and I hope that, we can see, as soon as made on the basis of charity, not justice”. there is a Conservative Government— I know from the desperate letters that I get from constituents that policyholders would be grateful even Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order. The for the smallest of concessions, such as a time scale for hon. Gentleman’s time is up. delivery following Sir John’s final report, even if that means that they would not receive compensation payments until, say, the end of 2011. Indeed, given the sad history 6.8 pm of this shambles, my constituents and those across the nation who have been affected by Equitable Life’s downfall Mr. Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) have learned to be realistic. People no longer have any (Con): I am waiting to hear the Latin tag, and I shall try expectation that they will get a share of the proposed to get hold of my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury £4 billion windfall, yet so long as indecision remains (Tony Baldry) to find out exactly what it was. regarding the formula by which to calculate compensation The sorry tale of what happened in Equitable Life payments, the Government have decided that the safest is well documented and, depressingly, was accurately option is inaction. In the current state of limbo, people catalogued by the hon. Member for Twickenham are worrying themselves sick. (Dr. Cable). It has also been picked over by the House Let us never forget that although pensions may be a on countless occasions, and I think that we all feel a highly technical matter—I accept that the report is very sense of deep disappointment and frustration that we detailed and needs to be properly analysed—the problems are gathered here yet again to press for the Government surrounding Equitable Life and other pension schemes to honour their duties to Equitable Life policyholders. are human. As my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury It is with great sadness that in preparing this speech, I (Tony Baldry) rightly pointed out, policyholders are realised that I first spoke in this place about the debacle dying as we wait for this sorry saga to be tied up. Surely in November 2002 after the publication of the Penrose it is not beyond the wit of man for us to be putting report. I said: together an interim payment for those hapless folk. “I fear that we shall need to debate the matter again in the I have spoken before in the House about some of the months and years ahead”.—[Official Report, 27 November 2002; policyholders in my constituency who are affected by Vol. 395, c. 73WH.] these terrible delays, but I believe it is worth touching I did not anticipate that there would be an eight-year on a few again, simply to reiterate to Ministers the delay.The Government’s caution, delay and penny-pinching suffering that the hesitation is causing. Mr. MacDermott approach to doing the right thing by Equitable Life of Motcomb street in Belgravia wrote to me before, policyholders stands in stark contrast to the way in saying: which they have showered taxpayers’ cash on other “I cannot claim poverty but I can safely say that at 77, I might groups in the past decade. To be honest, I have a nasty well have been happily retired rather than continuing working so feeling that they consider middle-class folk who have as to provide for my wife and two university-aged children.” diligently saved to provide a comfortable retirement as He is now 80 and sees no sign of change or resolution of “them”, not “us”. If the gross negligence that has been the issue. established at Equitable Life had taken place at the Mrs. Valerie Walsh of Bedfordbury in Covent Garden Easington colliery welfare fund, I cannot help but believe said to me: that something would already have been done by the “If I had received my full pension pot I would not now be Government. struggling just above the poverty line.” 775 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 776

Because she earns a relatively modest amount, it is downfall of the company. The matter has now dragged impossible for her to claim any of the housing help and on for almost 10 years—longer than I have been a benefits that are available to many other pensioners in Member of the House. the district where she lives. I do not intend to rake over the coals of what went Most of the people who have lost out do not have the wrong. Many others have mentioned that. What is option of returning to the workplace to make their way needed now is urgent action to right a wrong. Like all in life. They are often in their 60s, 70s or even 80s and Members, I have among my constituents a significant the Equitable Life money was the most important part number of Equitable Life policyholders, most now elderly, of what should have been a relatively relaxed and quiet who have suffered significantly. Sadly, some have died retirement. They have been denied that. They have been waiting for justice. denied justice, and with ever more delays, many will be The problem goes much deeper than that, and it is a denied ever seeing any of the money. problem for the whole House. It has not gone unnoticed Other Members have spoken about the wider issues, outside this place how policyholders have been treated, which I shall deal with in conclusion. We would be compared with the speed of action on the banks. As foolish to underestimate the ongoing damage to confidence others have said, that has undermined the case for in the pensions industry that is being caused by the savings and private pension provision, which are important failure to draw a line under the Equitable Life affair. for the future and which will come back to haunt The breaking down of conventional middle-class job successive Governments unless something is done quickly security has made ever more important the concept of to deal with the situation. I suspect it is too late to bring trust in personal and company pension schemes. back confidence. Until its collapse, Equitable Life was widely regarded When the Government said that they were going to as the jewel in the crown of the retirement providers, apologise, there was real hope that action would finally but the failure of the regulator to intervene in the affair be taken to end the saga. It was therefore a considerable showed that existing rules to protect the consumer from let-down, to put it mildly, when all that was announced unreasonable risks were not enforced. We can go through was yet another investigation under Sir John Chadwick the catalogue of events. The FSA should have taken its into how a compensation scheme would work. I recall role more seriously when it was the regulator and that, in January last year, in a Westminster hall debate engendered a culture of collective responsibility that following that statement, I said: would have ensured universal public confidence. “The more cynical among us might consider that statement as I am worried for the future. We all know that it will be putting a decision beyond the next general election.”—[Official the next generation of taxpayers who pay for the borrowing Report, 27 January 2009; Vol. 487, c. 36WH.] that is taking place now. We are spending £4 for every It turns out that I was not being cynical at all. That is £3 that we raise in tax this year, purely for consumption. exactly what will happen. The final Chadwick report There is no investment involved in that. Future generations will not be available until May and, according to the will have to pay the bill for our national profligacy. That Minister, an announcement on a scheme will be made makes it even more crucial that in the decades ahead the 14 days thereafter. I find it strange that, after all this youngsters of today—the middle-aged folk of tomorrow, time and all the reports, there is to be a sudden burst of who will become pensioners themselves—have enough action within 14 days to produce a fully formed scheme faith in the financial system to put their hard-earned to deal with the problems. cash into a savings pot for the future. Unfortunately, it Even now, pertinent questions remain that are not is an indictment of the Government that those who had being answered. We need to know when payments are already taken responsibility for their own destinies by to be made. Will there be another period of inaction or investing in Equitable Life have been treated with such will they be made quickly after the Government decide contempt. what they are doing? Will they be made by the end of May, by the end of June, or by some other date? 6.15 pm Perhaps the Exchequer Secretary can clarify that when she sums up. It was interesting that the Chief Secretary Mr. Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): The Equitable Life was unwilling or unable to give any indication of the debacle will go down as one of the great shames of this time scale of payment. That is what people want to Parliament. It appears that we could not even support know. They have waited years, and many of them are our own independent ombudsman against the Executive. suffering badly. They want to know what they will get, My hackles were particularly raised by the Government and when, in order to draw a line under the whole sad amendment, which would make the resolution state saga. It is not at all clear, at least to me, who will receive that the House compensation. It may be only those who have suffered “recognises the vital role the Ombudsman plays in public life; disproportionately. I note that, in its briefing for this reaffirms the duty of Parliament to support the office of the debate, EMAG says: Ombudsman”. “Ex-gratia payments, it is proposed by the Treasury’s remit, That is exactly what Parliament has not done in this will be further limited to only those who suffered ‘disproportionate case. impact’—now defined as With Profit Annuitants and those late-joiners The Chief Secretary was all reasonableness today, who put in new money after 1998.” but the Government had to be dragged through the Will the Exchequer Secretary please clarify exactly what courts kicking and screaming before there was any is meant by “disproportionate”? action to do justice to Equitable Life policyholders. No Means-testing has been mentioned several times during one could have been in any doubt after the ombudsman’s the debate, but again we still do not have a clear picture report that the Government had a case to answer regarding of what is proposed. Both Sir John and the Minister the actions or inaction of the regulators, leading to the have said that it would not be possible to look at the 777 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 778

[Mr. Mike Weir] equity plans, and the majority had certainty about their retirement age. Equity markets were starting to boom individual means of every claimant, but a means test is and the economic recovery had been in place in for not being specifically ruled out. We need some clarity three years. People had some certainty and were able to about how that will be done. If the Minister is to plan. The environment now is very different. Retirement respond within 14 days, the Government must have plans are not living up to optimistic forecasts. The some idea what they are going to do, whether or not public and private sectors have abandoned final salary they have received the final report. Moreover, we are schemes, and we are moving to defined-contribution not sure which losses are directly due to maladministration, schemes, the returns from which are infinitely less certain, which seems to be another anchor on the scheme. with higher charges and increasingly expensive annuity propositions. As my hon. and learned Friend the Member Mr. Angus MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP): Is for Harborough (Mr. Garnier) said, the Government’s it not doubly hard on Equitable Life to have seen the initial actions to alter advance corporation tax and the banks bailed out, the bonuses and the treatment and the dividend tax credit have also played their part. public money that the state-owned banks have had The Government have failed on any number of occasions compared with the treatment of Equitable Life? to take the opportunity to sort out this injustice and so have engendered a lack of confidence in the system. “By Mr. Weir: It will stick in the throat of many Equitable your actions shall you be known” is a well known Life policyholders to see how the Government have phrase, and the Government will be known by their reacted to that situation compared with their own. actions in this place, even their response to the Penrose The scheme that is being talked about could keep the inquiry. Penrose did say that the company is the author lawyers in business for years if not decades, because so of its own misfortunes, but pointed out that there was a many parts of it are unclear. For all that the Minister general failure of regulators and the Government Actuary’s said about the Chadwick process being quicker, it does Department. It was seriously disingenuous of the not seem to have proved to be quicker than what the Government at that time to try to hide behind that first ombudsman proposed all those years ago. Had the remark, yet not acknowledge the mistrust and opprobrium Government accepted their responsibilities at that time, that Penrose attached to the Government actuaries and a scheme could have been up and running, policyholders the regulatory process. It was also seriously disingenuous could have been compensated and this injustice could of the Government at that stage to say that Penrose had have been righted long ago. not recommended compensation, because that was The endless arguments will continue. I appeal to the specifically excluded from inquiry’s remit. Minister, even at this late stage, to give justice to Understandably, therefore, one or two colleagues tonight policyholders quickly and to produce a scheme that is have commented with some cynicism on the contribution even-handed and simple—one that ensures that my of the Chief Secretary, who was unable to give any ageing constituents do not have an interminable wait to details of the payment scheme. Yet I note that the see whether they are to be compensated and that they Government, in their amendment to the motion, appear get some compensation before it is far too late for them. to be moving slightly from their initial position that they would react within two weeks to the Chadwick 6.22 pm report. Now they say that they will Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): This may be “respond with details of a payment scheme within two weeks of the last opportunity that I have to speak in this Parliament receiving this advice”. and it is an honour to follow so many thoughtful If they could respond within two weeks, surely they must contributions today. I particularly want to put on record already know some of the dates. They must know now that, soon after I became a Member of Parliament in when they would start paying out. Either this is a failure May 2005, one of the first groups to make representations of the wording of the amendment, or the Government to me was those of my constituents who had already have changed their position; if so, the Chief Secretary taken up this matter with my predecessor—I think should be able to give us that information now. particularly of Mr. Roy England, Professor Bonn and The comments made in the House last year by the others. Five years on, I want to do what a Member of then Chief Secretary were extraordinarily crushing. It is Parliament should do, which is make representations on understandable that my hon. Friend the Member for their behalf in the House tonight. Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) should The joint chairmen of the all-party group made have made the point about the frustration felt when the thoughtful speeches. The hon. Member for Leeds, North- Chief Secretary said that there has been maladministration East (Mr. Hamilton), who is not in his place, was in several areas. It had been pointed out by Penrose absolutely right that the main focus of this debate eight years before that there was a general failure of the should be the plight of those who still require justice regulatory system, and the ombudsman’s report made and compensation, but he was wrong so easily to dismiss that point as well. My hon. Friend the Member for the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) referred to the hardest hit, but Fareham (Mr. Hoban) that, by their inaction, the surely all the policyholders have been hard hit. There Government have undermined confidence in the savings has been speculation that, in today’s money, the pension system, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of might be £75 a week, but there is an opportunity cost London and Westminster (Mr. Field) also said. Thirteen lost, because a number of people were locked into the short years ago, we had a state pension system that was scheme in 2000 when they were told that penalty fees working, which could be topped up by occupational would be charged for withdrawal. For the Chadwick pensions, excellent personal pension schemes and a process not to look at losses incurred after 2001, when it savings culture that had been encouraged by personal was already known that a penalty charge would be 779 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 780 incurred if the money was withdrawn, seems disingenuous The ombudsman’s report was absolutely damning. It of the Government. A number of hon. Members question said that the Government and regulators were guilty of whether Chadwick is a transparent and independent regulatory failure and recommended that an independent process. To limit compensation on those grounds seems tribunal quickly and simply calculate compensation. spurious. That the scheme was already falling apart had The Government slowly accepted, and apologised for, to be known. The whole issue of penalty payments has maladministration, but they initially rejected many of to be taken into account. the ombudsman’s findings, failed to offer immediate The Government conceded the case for compensation compensation and failed to set up the fully independent some time ago. They conceded that it was not an ex process that the ombudsman had asked for. That refusal gratia payment, but a payment for wrongs done—a was not only an injustice to Equitable Life policyholders, payment for justice. By continually putting off the but a potential threat to the whole credibility of the payment and not being able to tell us any details in this ombudsman system. On many aspects of casework, House tonight, even though their amendment says that many hon. Members might share my frustration that they will produce them within two weeks, the Government the ombudsman’s reports are often not properly acted are, at the very best, being disingenuous, so it is no on, and I am afraid that the response of the Government surprise that there is considerable cynicism about their at the time and, to be honest, since then has helped to good intent on this matter. undermine the credibility of the ombudsman system. That is potentially serious, particularly in respect of the I hope that when the Exchequer Secretary responds, Chadwick process, which we now have instead, because she is able to restore our confidence in that good intent there is now a real question about whether it will resolve by giving us details of the payment scheme; telling us the issues at all. why the Prime Minister said in 2008 that there would be a statement before Christmas, when it came only in I am disturbed by the wording in the press release from January 2009; and telling us in detail that the Chadwick Sir John Chadwick’s office on 4 March. It accompanied process is independent and transparent. If she cannot his third and final interim report and noted his provisional do those things, there will be real concern not only from views as to what factors the Government Members, but from the people whom we seek to represent “may wish to take into account when considering which policyholders tonight—the people who require that compensation for have experienced disproportionate impact.” the injustice done to them—about whether this Government In other words, the report will be only a polite suggestion really do intend to publish those details. to the Government about what they might do, and it will leave them scope for what might be regarded as a wider and remaining injustice, which those representing 6.30 pm policyholders might easily reject. If we have only those Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I shall try to tentative suggestions, we face the awful prospect, 16 or avoid the more party political comments made by some 17 years after the first warning signs, of still no resolution contributors to the debate, partly because the Equitable for about 40,000 Equitable Life pensioners, whose average Life issue is one of simple justice, not of ideology or of age is, as the hon. Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) party, and partly because many of the mistakes relating said, 79. Certainly, many of them are elderly and many to Equitable Life and the regulatory regime that governed have sadly died while waiting for compensation, and, as it predate this Government, which underlines the time I said in an intervention, it is estimated that as many as that many policyholders have been waiting for a resolution 2,500 could die in the next 12 months without ever to the issue. Many Members have referred to the 10 years having received compensation. since the Court of Appeal judgment and since Equitable Policyholders were told to expect a final report from closed its doors to new business, but six years before Sir John Chadwick in spring 2010. Well, the daffodils that Equitable Life started cutting the size of final are out and my personal benchmark of spring, the bonuses, and by what should have been the turning Cheltenham gold cup, is imminent—the Cheltenham point, the parliamentary ombudsman’s report in 2008, festival has started—but there is still no report. The real the crisis had been brewing for about 14 years. Policyholders shame, as many Members have pointed out, is that in have therefore had to wait an enormous length of time. the end it will be a post-election report, and that adds to fears that the report will be controversial; that it Mr. Mark Field: I appreciate that some matters have might, as my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond been in gestation for some time and, therefore, should Park (Susan Kramer) pointed out, use over-pessimistic not be subject to party politics, but does the hon. assumptions and that, in the end, it will be highly Gentleman not understand the concern, which many of contentious. us feel, including the hon. Member for Angus (Mr. Weir) who spoke for the Scottish nationalists, that the treatment Dr. John Pugh (Southport) (LD): My hon. Friend is of Equitable policyholders has been so very different making dire predictions, but one feature of this case is from the treatment of shareholders in banks, bank that the pessimists have invariably been right. account holders and a range of others? As I said in my contribution, a whole lot of cash has been showered on Martin Horwood: Indeed, that is absolutely true, but such individuals, in stark contrast to the treatment of let us hope that it is not true on this final—or what we Equitable Life policyholders. hope will be this final—occasion. The human impact of this fiasco has been absolutely Martin Horwood: The hon. Gentleman makes a fair terrible. Mr. and Mrs. Littlewood of my constituency point, and it is incumbent on whichever Government wrote to me in 2008, describing that human impact. happen to be in office when such wrongs are exposed to They said: respond fairly and reasonably, and that responsibility “Personally our pension payments have been sabotaged to the lies fairly and squarely with this Government. effect that we are now always, even more, conscious of the cost of 781 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 782

[Martin Horwood] team’s whole approach to the economy—saying that there are hard choices to make and then not making daily expenses and costs… The annual payments we put into E. L. them. They are dithering rather than taking action; they to achieve a modest pension out of our earnings have been promise that things will be sorted out, but put off ravaged.” paying the money until another day. That is the effect. Like many others, their prospects of a I should mention the many scores of my own happy and modestly prosperous retirement, reasonably constituents—51 in the past 18 months alone—who free from financial worries, which is what most of have written to me about their own difficulties as Equitable would hope for at least, have been wrecked. Life policyholders. I have read harrowing letters detailing It is pretty difficult for many Equitable Life policyholders lives blighted and retirement dreams dashed. to bear that situation, for a number of reasons. First, as This is not the first time that we have debated Equitable the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster Life in the House. I have gone through the various (Mr. Field) pointed out, there have been bail-outs for pledges made by the Government in the last debate on those in cases such as Barlow Clowes, when the current the issue, in October. To be fair, the Chief Secretary to Prime Minister championed the rights of investors. It the Treasury took a huge number of interventions therefore seems ironic that, on his watch, we have not during that debate, as he did this time. Frankly, however, been able to expedite similar compensation for Equitable he deserved his battering—so weak was his case and so Life policyholders. Secondly, in the Government’s view unable or unwilling was he to answer any questions. I the bail-out culture apparently extends to wealthy bankers want to quote his response during the last debate to an who have brought this country to the brink of economic intervention from my right hon. Friend the Member for collapse, but not to hard-working pensioners who have Wokingham (Mr. Redwood), who asked whether the done nothing wrong. They simply and prudently tried Government would go into this election to save for their retirement, but they have ended up in a much worse situation. Finally, because there is a clear “having to say to Equitable Life policyholders, ‘We have not risk that the Chadwick report may not lead to an agreed agreed any compensation for you’”. resolution, the prospect of an actual payment that helps He was told, weakly, by the Chief Secretary: people in their daily lives and with their current financial “I hope that we will not be in that position.”—[Official Report, situation will recede still further into the middle distance. 21 October 2009; Vol. 497, c. 934.] I urge the Government to accept a couple of requests. But that is exactly his position as we go into this First, they should urgently look at the prospect of an election. interim compensation scheme. Government Front Benchers gave a pretty feeble answer earlier, and the idea that the Mr. Byrne: Will the hon. Gentleman spell out for the Government are not willing to consider such a scheme House whether he is going to accept the Sir John because there might be a small overpayment to some Chadwick process or whether—as his motion suggests—he Equitable Life policyholders, many of whom have been wants to replace the Chadwick process with the ombudsman waiting 10 years for any payment at all in compensation process? for their losses, will sound rather hollow to all policyholders, but that is a risk that the Government ought to be Mr. Hands: I thank the Chief Secretary for the prepared to take. Indeed, there may not even be a real intervention, but that is just not good enough. I will risk, because, as other Members have pointed out, outline the position, but I thought that he was intervening EMAG’s estimate of the cost of that compensation to tell us what he told us in October he would be able to scheme is £200 million—a fraction of the compensation do—go into the general election campaign with a clear that is likely to be paid in the final analysis. pledge on amounts and a timetable. I am afraid that he Secondly, even at this late stage, I urge the Government has failed on both counts. I will answer his question to clarify urgently the remit given to Sir John Chadwick when the time is right. and express the hope that his recommendations will It is pretty clear that the Chief Secretary’s position is propose compensation in the spirit of the ombudsman’s as I have described, and it is a terrible position for him report—in a way that rebuilds a level of confidence to be in. I agree with my hon. and learned Friend the among policyholders and offers some prospect of justice Member for Harborough (Mr. Garnier), who said that at the end of this whole long-drawn-out and sorry the Chief Secretary is playing a game with the public on business. this issue. He tried to set up an artificial dividing line between following the Chadwick process and fulfilling 6.40 pm the ombudsman’s recommendations. That is a false Mr. Greg Hands (Hammersmith and Fulham) (Con): choice. We very much hope—[Interruption.] The Chief This has been a good debate, and I am delighted that we Secretary should listen for a moment. We very much Conservatives tabled the motion for discussion today. It hope that the Chadwick recommendations will comply shows the importance that we attach to the issue of with the ombudsman’s recommendations. The Chadwick Equitable Life; after all, this is likely to be the last recommendations will, we hope, deliver the principal debate in Opposition time on Treasury matters before recommendations made by the ombudsman—that the election. payments should be made to policyholders to reflect the We could have called for a debate on the record-breaking losses arising from the failure to regulate Equitable Life deficit, on the longest recession of any G20 country, on properly. the Government’s flip-flopping on ruling out rises in The Chief Secretary also considered the two issues of VAT or on the slide of the pound, but instead we chose deceased policyholders and means-testing; it was noticeable to debate Equitable Life. The whole Equitable Life saga that he did not rule in payments to estates and that he serves as an allegory for the Government Treasury did not rule out means-testing. I am afraid that very 783 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 784 little comfort was given there. His speech contained My hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London nothing about amounts or timing, both of which are of and Westminster (Mr. Field) pointed out that he first the utmost importance and were promised by him back spoke about Equitable Life seven and a half years ago. in October. Again, that shows how long this sorry saga of Government The hon. Member for Castle Point (Bob Spink) made mishandling has lasted. As my hon. Friend put it, the a notable intervention on the Chief Secretary; it left me safest course of action for the Government appears to confused about the hon. Gentleman’s status. After the be inaction. Conservative Whip was withdrawn from him, he sat as The hon. Member for Angus (Mr. Weir) reminded us an independent, then as a member of the UK Independence of the importance of respecting the role of the ombudsman, party, then again as an independent. Then last week, he while my hon. Friend the Member for Wimbledon was part of the Canvey Island Independent party. Last (Stephen Hammond) told us in a strong speech how he Friday, his local papers reported that he had set up his was ending where he started this Parliament: speaking own party, the Save our Green Belt party. The House of up for his constituents about Equitable Life. He talked Commons Library has listed him as an independent, wisely about the importance of enhancing our savings but he seems to be following the Labour Whip as he culture in this country. The hon. Member for Cheltenham votes in the Division Lobby on crucial matters. I shall (Martin Horwood) also made important points about be interested to see under which party Hansard records the speed of compensation. his intervention. This all reminds me of the last time the issue was The hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) outlined debated in the House. A sizeable number of Labour the cumulative effect of foot-dragging and we Back Benchers rebelled against the Government, voting wholeheartedly agree with him on that. The hon. Member for a motion from the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives. for Leeds, North-East (Mr. Hamilton) talked about the I ask those Labour Members to make their voices heard danger of the Equitable Life issue becoming a party political again, on behalf of Equitable Life policyholders, and to football. I have to disagree; in fact, the last Opposition vote for the Opposition motion tonight. motion on the subject, tabled by the Liberal Democrats, had our full support, and I assume that the same will By refusing to take responsibility for the appalling apply in reverse this evening. Unfortunately, the hon. delay in giving compensation, the Government are behaving Gentleman was not one of the Labour Members who once again like a soldier deserting his post. Their approach voted in favour of that Opposition motion last October. to this problem, like their approach to the deficit, is one of hoping that the problem will simply go away. My hon. and learned Friend the Member for Harborough pointed out the cynicism of delaying any Rob Marris: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? compensation until after the election. He also rightly pointed out, as did the hon. Member for Leeds, North-East, that the vast majority of policyholders were or are of Mr. Hands: I will not; my hon. Friend the Member very modest means. The hon. Member for Brent, North for Fareham gave way 27 times, and I have only one and (Barry Gardiner) said that nothing that the Government a half minutes left. had done had made him more ashamed than the saga of The Government have had the best part of a decade Equitable Life. Bear in mind that the hon. Gentleman to get this matter right, and thousands have died with resigned from the Government in protest against his neither compensation nor justice. There may be only six own party leader. Strangely, however, he did not support weeks left in the lifetime of the Government, but it is the Opposition motion on Equitable Life last October, still not too late for them to do the right thing. If they when the chips were down. choose not to, we will make sure that justice is done. I should like to praise the work of my hon. Friend the The response from those on the Conservative Benches Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) is absolutely clear: we accepted the ombudsman’s findings as co-chairman of the all-party group on justice for from the very beginning. My right hon. Friend the Equitable Life policyholders. He and I were elected for Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron) has stated clearly the first time in 2005; clearly, the Equitable Life issue that if we win the election, we will sort out Equitable predates that time. My hon. Friend has shown courage Life very early on. We make this pledge today: we will and done a great service to many people by taking on sort out the mess, and we will sort it out at some speed. the co-chairmanship. He called for a better working relationship between EMAG and the Government and we wholeheartedly endorse that. 6.49 pm The hon. Member for Luton, North (Kelvin Hopkins)— The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Sarah who, to be fair, did vote for the Opposition motion last McCarthy-Fry): I thank all Members for their interesting October—showed us yet again that whatever the question, and passionate contributions to this debate. I think that his answer is always more public ownership. He criticised we are all agreed on one thing—the need to resolve this us for our pledge to take into account the cost to the important issue quickly and fairly. I believe that we have public purse of any compensation, but it is worth been making good progress. Sir John’s recent interim pointing out that that was a key recommendation of the report represents a significant step towards resolving ombudsman herself. the issue and, as the Chief Secretary said, he will submit My hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Tony his final report in May. As far as possible, the Government Baldry) made a strong and attacking speech, reiterating are progressing work on scheme design in parallel with the powerful points made by my hon. Friend the Member Sir John’s work. We cannot prejudge Sir John’s final for Fareham (Mr. Hoban) about the damage done to advice, and final decisions cannot be made until it has our savings culture. He also called for speed in the been received and considered. However, I want to reiterate compensation process, saying rightly that not much what the Chief Secretary said in his opening speech: we apparent progress had been made since July 2008. recognise that there is a strong case for the estates of 785 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 786

[Sarah McCarthy-Fry] said, history tells us that extensive preparation is needed to get this right; its scale and complexity should not be policyholders who have passed away to be included in underestimated. the scheme; we recognise that it is neither desirable nor administratively feasible to means-test every individual Mr. Garnier: In order for this process to be efficient policyholder; and we are able to commit to responding and effective, I have absolutely no doubt—I am sure to Sir John Chadwick’s final advice within two weeks. that the Minister will confirm this—that the Government I shall now try to cover, as best I can in the time will get sight of Sir John’s final recommendations well available, some of the points that hon. Members have in advance of the published date noted in the amendment. raised. The hon. Members for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) Do the Government expect to get the report, either in and for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) draft or in its final form, before the end of April? referred to EMAG’s withdrawal from the Chadwick Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The hon. and learned Gentleman process. It is regrettable that EMAG has withdrawn will be aware that we have received interim reports from from Sir John’s work. Sir John is a well-respected former Sir John during this process. [Interruption.] I believe Court of Appeal judge who carries out his work that he just said that we have already seen the draft final independent of Government, and I do not believe that report—I can assure him that that is absolutely not his integrity is in question. Throughout the process, he the case. has carefully considered representations from all interested parties, including EMAG, and has given equal time and The hon. and learned Member for Harborough weighting to the views of those parties. That is reflected (Mr. Garnier) and the hon. Members for Shrewsbury in his latest interim report, which publishes all the and Atcham and for Banbury (Tony Baldry) expressed representations that he has received. The independent their cynicism about Sir John’s reporting in May. This is panel appointed to peer review the work of Sir John’s Sir John’s timetable. Sir John does not work to a actuaries comprises specialists in their field. They are parliamentary or a political timetable, and he is carrying all highly regarded and were selected on the basis of out the work as quickly as he is able. Clearly, it would be their professionalism and integrity. irresponsible to rush to implement a scheme before the facts are established. Many hon. Members, including the hon. Member for Twickenham, my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, Many Members, including the hon. Member for North-East (Mr. Hamilton), and the hon. Members for Cheltenham, raised the question of Sir John’s independence. Cities of London and Westminster (Mr. Field) and for Sir John will come to his own views independently of Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), asked about interim Government. We have, of course, offered our own views payments. In order to make interim payments, we would and comments to the process, and they will be published be required to pre-empt Sir John’s advice, and we would along with all the responses, but they are representations, have to make assumptions about a wide range of factors not directions. We have been very clear that we will take without having the full extent and analysis of the full account of Sir John’s advice. information required. I believe that it is important that Rob Marris: Speaking of cynicism, does my hon. all resources are directed towards ensuring that the final Friend share my view that the Conservatives are sitting payment scheme is implemented as swiftly as possible, on the fence? Their motion calls for the implementation and at this point I do not want to divert resources that of the ombudsman’s recommendations. Today, their may, in turn, lead to delays in that implementation spokesperson said that they hope that Chadwick will process. However, as the Chief Secretary said, we are follow the ombudsman’s recommendations but did not investigating the possibility of prioritising payments say what would happen if the recommendations from within the scheme so that groups that have been the Chadwick are different from those of the ombudsman: most disproportionately impacted would be paid first. they are silent on that point. My hon. Friends the Members for Northampton, North (Ms Keeble) and for Leeds, North-East, and the Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Exactly. As my hon. Friend hon. Member for St. Albans (Anne Main), who is not in suggests, Sir John’s approach is already different from her place, mentioned data cleansing. I would like to that of the ombudsman. Her approach was based on confirm that officials are in contact with Equitable Life the scrutiny of individual cases, coupled with the on the issue of data, and the data cleansing process is requirement to prove that policyholders had relied on part of the work that is being carried out in parallel regulatory returns. Sir John has taken a flexible approach with Sir John’s work. I am confident that data cleansing that already differs from that approach. will not cause delay once Sir John reports. The hon. and learned Member for Harborough and Many Members, including the hon. Members for the hon. Member for Angus said that we were wrong, as Angus (Mr. Weir) and for Wimbledon (Stephen a matter of principle, to question the ombudsman’s Hammond), asked when payments will flow. At the findings. We do not accept this. To treat the ombudsman’s moment, it is impossible to tell. At the very least, we findings and recommendations as though they were will need to know who we are paying and how we are binding would reflect neither the true nature and extent paying, and we will need to consider different delivery of her role, nor that of Government in their stewardship options. However, as I said, we are starting preparatory of public funds. Rightly, the Government cannot simply work so that we can move as rapidly as possible when dismiss her findings and recommendations, and I assure Sir John reports. We have scheme design consultants on hon. Members that they did not do so in this case, but board who are developing options, and extensive work they can depart from them in certain circumstances. To by officials has included discussions with Equitable Life be clear, this was not indicative of any lack of respect and with stakeholder groups. This is potentially one of for the office of the ombudsman; still less did it stem the largest schemes of its type and, as the Chief Secretary from any disregard for the plight of policyholders affected 787 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 788 by the events at Equitable Life. It was simply grounded Burt, Alistair Hosie, Stewart in the need to ensure that our response, and any actions Burt, Lorely Howard, rh Mr. Michael that we might take, were based on a proper appreciation Butterfill, Sir John Howarth, David of the evidence. Cable, Dr. Vincent Howarth, Mr. Gerald Cameron, rh Mr. David Howell, John The hon. Member for Angus asked what the Campbell, Mr. Gregory Hughes, Simon disproportionate impact is. The concept of disproportionate Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Hunt, Mr. Jeremy impact is intended to help to ensure that payments Carmichael, Mr. Alistair Hunter, Mark made under the scheme are targeted at where they are Carswell, Mr. Douglas Hurd, Mr. Nick needed most. Sir John will advise us on factors arising Cash, Mr. William Jack, rh Mr. Michael from his work. In his third interim report, he expressed Clappison, Mr. James Jackson, Mr. Stewart his provisional view that holders of with-profits annuities Clark, Greg Jenkin, Mr. Bernard and late joiners have been disproportionately impacted, Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey Jones, Mr. David in that the impact of maladministration was severe Conway, Derek Kawczynski, Daniel beyond the norm. However, the Government have not Cormack, Sir Patrick Keetch, Mr. Paul stated that only those two groups will receive payments. Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Final decisions on who will be paid will be made after Crabb, Mr. Stephen Key, Robert Curry, rh Mr. David Kirkbride, Miss Julie Sir John submits his final report. Davies, Mr. Dai Knight, rh Mr. Greg The hon. Member for Cheltenham asked about the Davies, David T. C. Kramer, Susan comparator with the regulator in the 1990s and the (Monmouth) Laing, Mrs. Eleanor possibility of that leading to delay. That was also raised Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Lait, Mrs. Jacqui in an intervention by the hon. Member for Richmond Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen Lamb, Norman Park (Susan Kramer), who is not in her place. Sir John’s Dorries, Nadine Lancaster, Mr. Mark third interim report set out his provisional views on Duncan, Alan Lansley, Mr. Andrew regulatory behaviour in the 1990s. He is considering Duncan Smith, rh Mr. Iain Laws, Mr. David various scenarios as regards regulation, whether stringent Ellwood, Mr. Tobias Leech, Mr. John or loose, but he has not said which he prefers. He is Evans, Mr. Nigel Leigh, Mr. Edward open to all views on this—it is not fixed in stone—and Evennett, Mr. David Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver Fabricant, Michael Lewis, Dr. Julian input from everyone, now, will minimise dispute later. Fallon, Mr. Michael Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Sir John has not yet finalised the comparator. Featherstone, Lynne Lidington, Mr. David The accusation levelled at the Government is that Field, Mr. Mark Lilley, rh Mr. Peter that we have consistently—some have even said wilfully— Foster, Mr. Don Luff, Peter dragged our feet on this matter: even now, when Fox, Dr. Liam Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew Sir John is close to completing his work. That is simply Francois, Mr. Mark Maclean, rh David wide of the mark and absolutely not the case. Fraser, Christopher MacNeil, Mr. Angus In conclusion, we appreciate and share the genuine Gale, Mr. Roger Main, Anne Garnier, Mr. Edward Malins, Mr. Humfrey concerns that Members in all parts of the House continue Gauke, Mr. David Maples, Mr. John to have on behalf of policyholders. We have before us Gibb, Mr. Nick Mason, John a motion that exhorts us to set a clear timetable for Gidley, Sandra Maude, rh Mr. Francis implementing the ombudsman’s recommendations. Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl May, rh Mrs. Theresa However— Godsiff, Mr. Roger McIntosh, Miss Anne Goodman, Mr. Paul McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con) claimed to move Goodwill, Mr. Robert Miller, Mrs. Maria the closure (Standing Order No. 36). Gove, Michael Milton, Anne Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put. Greening, Justine Mitchell, Mr. Andrew Question agreed to. Greenway, Mr. John Moss, Mr. Malcolm Grieve, Mr. Dominic Mulholland, Greg Question put accordingly (Standing Order No. 31(2), Gummer, rh Mr. John Mundell, David That the original words stand part of the Question. Hague, rh Mr. William Murrison, Dr. Andrew The House divided: Ayes 236, Noes 291. Hammond, Mr. Philip Neill, Robert Hammond, Stephen Newmark, Mr. Brooks Division No. 110] [7 pm Hands, Mr. Greg O’Brien, Mr. Stephen AYES Harper, Mr. Mark Öpik, Lembit Harvey, Nick Osborne, Mr. George Afriyie, Adam Beresford, Sir Paul Hayes, Mr. John Ottaway, Richard Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Binley, Mr. Brian Heald, Mr. Oliver Paice, Mr. James Alexander, Danny Blunt, Mr. Crispin Heath, Mr. David Pelling, Mr. Andrew Amess, Mr. David Bone, Mr. Peter Heathcoat-Amory, rh Penning, Mike Ancram, rh Mr. Michael Bottomley, Peter Mr. David Penrose, John Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Brady, Mr. Graham Hemming, John Pickles, Mr. Eric Atkinson, Mr. Peter Brake, Tom Hendry, Charles Price, Adam Bacon, Mr. Richard Brazier, Mr. Julian Herbert, Nick Prisk, Mr. Mark Baldry, Tony Brokenshire, James Hermon, Lady Pritchard, Mark Barker, Gregory Browne, Mr. Jeremy Hoban, Mr. Mark Pugh, Dr. John Baron, Mr. John Browning, Angela Hollobone, Mr. Philip Randall, Mr. John Barrett, John Bruce, rh Malcolm Holloway, Mr. Adam Redwood, rh Mr. John Beith, rh Sir Alan Burns, Mr. Simon Holmes, Paul Reid, Mr. Alan Bellingham, Mr. Henry Burrowes, Mr. David Horam, Mr. John Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Benyon, Mr. Richard Burstow, Mr. Paul Horwood, Martin Robathan, Mr. Andrew 789 Equitable Life16 MARCH 2010 Equitable Life 790

Robertson, Angus Tredinnick, David Davies, Mr. Quentin Jones, Lynne Robertson, Hugh Turner, Mr. Andrew Dean, Mrs. Janet Jones, Mr. Martyn Robertson, Mr. Laurence Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Denham, rh Mr. John Jowell, rh Tessa Rosindell, Andrew Vaizey, Mr. Edward Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Joyce, Mr. Eric Rowen, Paul Vara, Mr. Shailesh Dismore, Mr. Andrew Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Russell, Bob Villiers, Mrs. Theresa Dobbin, Jim Keeley, Barbara Sanders, Mr. Adrian Walker, Mr. Charles Dobson, rh Frank Keen, Alan Scott, Mr. Lee Wallace, Mr. Ben Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. Keen, Ann Selous, Andrew Walter, Mr. Robert Doran, Mr. Frank Kelly, rh Ruth Shapps, Grant Waterson, Mr. Nigel Dowd, Jim Kemp, Mr. Fraser Shepherd, Mr. Richard Watkinson, Angela Drew, Mr. David Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Simmonds, Mark Webb, Steve Eagle, Angela Kidney, Mr. David Simpson, Alan Weir, Mr. Mike Eagle, Maria Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Simpson, Mr. Keith Whittingdale, Mr. John Efford, Clive Knight, rh Jim Smith, Chloe Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann Ellman, Mrs. Louise Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Smith, Sir Robert Wiggin, Bill Engel, Natascha Lammy, rh Mr. David Soames, Mr. Nicholas Willetts, Mr. David Ennis, Jeff Laxton, Mr. Bob Spelman, Mrs. Caroline Williams, Hywel Etherington, Bill Lazarowicz, Mark Spicer, Sir Michael Williams, Mark Fitzpatrick, Jim Lepper, David Spink, Bob Williams, Mr. Roger Flello, Mr. Robert Levitt, Tom Spring, Mr. Richard Williams, Stephen Flint, rh Caroline Lewis, Mr. Ivan Stanley, rh Sir John Willis, Mr. Phil Flynn, Paul Linton, Martin Steen, Mr. Anthony Willott, Jenny Follett, Barbara Lloyd, Tony Streeter, Mr. Gary Wilson, Mr. Rob Foster, Mr. Michael Love, Mr. Andrew Stuart, Mr. Graham Winterton, Ann (Worcester) Lucas, Ian Stunell, Andrew Winterton, Sir Nicholas Foster, Michael Jabez Mackinlay, Andrew Swayne, Mr. Desmond Wishart, Pete (Hastings and Rye) MacShane, rh Mr. Denis Francis, Dr. Hywel Mactaggart, Fiona Swinson, Jo Wright, Jeremy Swire, Mr. Hugo Gapes, Mike Mahmood, Mr. Khalid Yeo, Mr. Tim Syms, Mr. Robert Gardiner, Barry Malik, Mr. Shahid Young, rh Sir George Tapsell, Sir Peter George, rh Mr. Bruce Mallaber, Judy Taylor, Mr. Ian Tellers for the Ayes: Gerrard, Mr. Neil Mann, John Taylor, Dr. Richard James Duddridge and Gilroy, Linda Marris, Rob Timpson, Mr. Edward Mr. Philip Dunne Goodman, Helen Marsden, Mr. Gordon Griffith, Nia Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert NOES Griffiths, Nigel Martlew, Mr. Eric Grogan, Mr. John McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Ainger, Nick Browne, rh Des Hain, rh Mr. Peter McCabe, Steve Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Bryant, Chris Hall, Mr. Mike McCarthy, Kerry Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Burden, Richard Hamilton, Mr. David McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Allen, Mr. Graham Burgon, Colin Hamilton, Mr. Fabian McDonagh, Siobhain Anderson, Mr. David Burnham, rh Andy Hanson, rh Mr. David McDonnell, John Anderson, Janet Butler, Ms Dawn Harman, rh Ms Harriet McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Armstrong, rh Hilary Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Harris, Mr. Tom McFall, rh John Atkins, Charlotte Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Healey, rh John McGovern, Mr. Jim Austin, John Cairns, David Hendrick, Mr. Mark McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Bailey, Mr. Adrian Campbell, Mr. Alan Hepburn, Mr. Stephen McKechin, Ann Bain, Mr. William Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Heppell, Mr. John McKenna, Rosemary Baird, Vera Challen, Colin Hesford, Stephen McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Balls, rh Ed Chapman, Ben Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia Meacher, rh Mr. Michael Banks, Gordon Clapham, Mr. Michael Heyes, David Meale, Mr. Alan Barlow, Ms Celia Clark, Ms Katy Hill, rh Keith Merron, Gillian Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Clark, Paul Hillier, Meg Michael, rh Alun Battle, rh John Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Hodge, rh Margaret Miliband, rh Edward Bayley, Hugh Clarke,rhMr.Tom Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Miller, Andrew Beckett, rh Margaret Clelland, Mr. David Hope, Phil Moffatt, Laura Begg, Miss Anne Coaker, Mr. Vernon Hopkins, Kelvin Mole, Chris Bell, Sir Stuart Coffey, Ann Howarth, rh Mr. George Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Benn, rh Hilary Cohen, Harry Howells, rh Dr. Kim Morden, Jessica Benton, Mr. Joe Connarty, Michael Humble, Mrs. Joan Morgan, Julie Berry, Roger Cooper, Rosie Hutton, rh Mr. John Mudie, Mr. George Betts, Mr. Clive Cooper, rh Yvette Iddon, Dr. Brian Mullin, Mr. Chris Blackman, Liz Crausby, Mr. David Illsley, Mr. Eric Murphy, Mr. Denis Blears, rh Hazel Creagh, Mary Ingram, rh Mr. Adam Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Blunkett, rh Mr. David Cruddas, Jon Irranca-Davies, Huw Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Borrow, Mr. David S. Cryer, Mrs. Ann Jackson, Glenda Naysmith, Dr. Doug Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Cummings, John James, Mrs. Siân C. Norris, Dan Brennan, Kevin Cunningham, Mr. Jim Jenkins, Mr. Brian O’Hara, Mr. Edward Brown, rh Mr. Gordon Cunningham, Tony Johnson, rh Alan Olner, Mr. Bill Brown, Lyn Darling, rh Mr. Alistair Johnson, Ms Diana R. Osborne, Sandra Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas David, Mr. Wayne Jones, Helen Owen, Albert Brown, Mr. Russell Davidson, Mr. Ian Jones, Mr. Kevan Palmer, Dr. Nick 791 Equitable Life 16 MARCH 2010 792

Pearson, Ian Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Higher Education Plaskitt, Mr. James Stewart, Ian Pope, Mr. Greg Stoate, Dr. Howard Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): I advise the Prentice, Bridget Strang, rh Dr. Gavin House that Mr. Speaker has selected the amendment in Prescott, rh Mr. John Straw, rh Mr. Jack the name of the Prime Minister. Primarolo, rh Dawn Stringer, Graham Prosser, Gwyn Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Purchase, Mr. Ken Tami, Mark 7.15 pm Purnell, rh James Taylor, Ms Dari Mr. David Willetts (Havant) (Con): I beg to move, Rammell, Bill Thomas, Mr. Gareth That this House welcomes the contribution made to the economy Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Thornberry, Emily and civic life by universities; notes the sharp increase in university Reed, Mr. Andy Timms, rh Mr. Stephen applications for 2010-11; is concerned that the Government’s Reed, Mr. Jamie Tipping, Paddy plans are likely to lead to a reduction of 6,000 undergraduate Robertson, John Todd, Mr. Mark places for UK and other EU students in 2010-11; further notes Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Touhig, rh Mr. Don that this fall in the number of places is likely to hamper efforts to Rooney, Mr. Terry Trickett, Jon widen participation in higher education; calls on the Government Roy, Mr. Frank Truswell, Mr. Paul to improve opportunities for young people by providing 10,000 Roy, Lindsay Turner, Dr. Desmond extra university places in 2010-11, paid for by offering a new Ruane, Chris Twigg, Derek incentive for the early repayment of student loans; further calls Ruddock, Joan Ussher, Kitty for more apprenticeships and training places; recognises that Russell, Christine Vaz, rh Keith better careers advice could provide an important contribution to Ryan, rh Joan Walley, Joan improving social mobility, and therefore commends initiatives Salter, Martin Waltho, Lynda which match prospective students to course places; and further Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad Ward, Claire calls for a new focus on higher education in further education Seabeck, Alison Watson, Mr. Tom colleges and other providers. Sharma, Mr. Virendra Watts, Mr. Dave The amendment is significant because it is an entirely Shaw, Jonathan Whitehead, Dr. Alan tendentious historical account of the past few years. It Sheerman, Mr. Barry Wicks, rh Malcolm gives the Government gloss on what has happened, but Sheridan, Jim Williams, rh Mr. Alan mentions nothing about the crisis of equivalent or Simon, Mr. Siôn Williams, Mrs. Betty lower qualifications—ELQs—which has affected many Singh, Mr. Marsha Wills, rh Mr. Michael people who are trying to return to study further. It also Skinner, Mr. Dennis Wilson, Phil ignores the current crisis in the funding of universities Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Winnick, Mr. David and the issue on which we wish to focus, which is the Smith, Ms Angela C. Winterton, rh Ms Rosie (Sheffield, Hillsborough) sheer difficulty that prospective students face in finding Woolas, Mr. Phil a place this year— Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon) Wright, David Smith, Geraldine Wright, Mr. Iain Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op) rose— Smith, rh Jacqui Wyatt, Derek Snelgrove, Anne Mr. Willetts: I am just getting into my stride, but I Soulsby, Sir Peter Tellers for the Noes: will give way to the Chairman of the Select Committee. Southworth, Helen Mr. Bob Blizzard and Spellar, rh Mr. John Mrs. Sharon Hodgson Mr. Sheerman: The hon. Gentleman mentions being tendentious. Does he agree that the history of higher Question accordingly negatived. education over the past few years is important? Was it Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 31(2), not tendentious of the Opposition’s motion to fail to That the proposed words be there added. mention the fact that when we really needed their Question agreed to. support on top-up fees they did not have the bottle to vote for what they knew was right? The Deputy Speaker declared the main Question, as amended, to be agreed to (Standing Order No. 31(2)). Mr. Willetts: We were concerned about the effect of Resolved, fees on participation, although so far it looks as though That this House recognises the vital role the Ombudsman plays fees have not had the effect on participation that was in public life; reaffirms the duty of Parliament to support the feared. We are being consistent, because we want to office of the Ombudsman; notes that the High Court ruled that focus on the effect on participation of the current the Government’s response to the Ombudsman’s recommendations pressures that universities face. Above all, and rightly, on Equitable Life, its establishment of an ex gratia payment our motion focuses on the future. We are looking at scheme, and the terms of reference given to Sir John Chadwick how we can spread opportunities for young people to were a rational response to the Ombudsman’s report; notes that go to college, get apprenticeships or go to university. Sir John expects to produce his final advice in May; welcomes the Government’s commitment to respond with details of a payment After all, Ministers and the Chairman of the Committee scheme within two weeks of receiving this advice; welcomes the were elected on a manifesto in 2005 entitled “Britain Government’s determination to establish a scheme administratively forward not back”. But the amendment is entirely backward quicker and simpler to deliver than that envisaged by the Ombudsman; looking and contains nothing about the future. By further notes that to abandon the Chadwick process so close to contrast, our motion is forward looking. It looks at how completion would add delay and hardship for policyholders; we can spread opportunities and educational access to welcomes the Government’s view that, while it cannot prejudge people across the country. Sir John’s final advice, there is a strong case for policyholders who have passed away to be included in the scheme and that it is The background to this debate is the Government’s neither desirable nor administratively feasible to means-test every target of 50 per cent. of people going into higher individual policyholder; and recognises the impact and significant education. The target was first set by Tony Blair in distress that maladministration and injustice have caused in respect 1999, and the 2004 public service agreement expressed of Equitable Life. the aim of increasing participation to 50 per cent.—it 793 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 794

[Mr. Willetts] Mr. Willetts: One area where the current pressures are most severe is in the delivery of higher education in was already sliding backwards. The target then became further education. Because universities are under financial an aspiration, and eventually, as we see from the pressure, some are retrenching and withdrawing support amendment, the aspiration subtly changed. It is no for higher education courses that are delivered in local longer an aspiration for the Government; instead the further education colleges. We very much regret that amendment talks of the aspiration of more than 50 per trend, which is something to which my hon. Friend the cent. of young people to go to university. The Government Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr. Hayes) have changed the definition of the aspiration yet again. may refer in his speech at the end of this debate—if he We on the Conservative Benches do not believe in succeeds in catching your eye, Madam Deputy Speaker— top-down targets for how many people should go to because higher education in further education is a cost- university. We do not believe that to be the right approach. effective and flexible form of provision. Rather, the number of people going to university should emerge from the decisions that well informed young Mr. Sheerman rose— people make about the different opportunities available to them and about how best they can take advantage of Mr. Willetts: The Chairman of the Children, Schools them. To us, that seems much more consistent with and Families Committee is very active; I will give way to trusting young people than the Government’s approach. him a second time.

Mr. William Cash (Stone) (Con): My hon. Friend is Mr. Sheerman: The hon. Gentleman and I share a making an extremely good start. In the light of the love of history—I know that he is very much an admirer recession and the vital importance of ensuring that of Michael Oakeshott—but will he cast his mind back young people, and in particular those between 18 and over the true history? History with things wiped out is 20, have the maximum opportunity to get work, does he not good history, and when Mrs. Thatcher was Prime agree that one of the most important things is for them Minister she wiped out apprenticeships. That should to be given access to further education, and in particular certainly be recognised. This Government have been education of a practical kind, if they are not necessarily rebuilding the apprenticeship system over a number of attuned to the academic world? In other words, we want years, and, before the hon. Gentleman leaves further to help those young people to get into work. education, I should mention that we have also rebuilt 60 per cent. of the FE estate. Is that not a commitment Mr. Willetts: I completely agree with my hon. Friend. to FE? Our approach is a properly balanced one, whereby those young people who would benefit most from going Mr. Willetts: The Chairman of the Select Committee to university should have that opportunity. However, has just revealed his guilty secret to the House, which is what many young people could benefit most from is that he was a student of Michael Oakeshott, for which work-based learning, notably apprenticeships. That is reason I am prepared to forgive him a lot. However, his why we have proposed refocusing the Train to Gain account of what has happened to apprenticeships is budget on more apprenticeships, so that more young tendentious. As the structure of the British economy people have the opportunity for practical learning. We changed, and as there were fewer manufacturing jobs particularly salute the efforts of further education colleges, available, there were fewer manufacturing apprenticeships. which are often an effective route into work, with We put in place a reform of apprenticeships, with more practical experience linked in. modern apprenticeships, but under this Government we now have a decline in their number. Mr. Mark Lancaster (North-East Milton Keynes) If the Chairman of the Select Committee is interested (Con): May I commend the work of the Open university? in the figures, I have here the Government’s latest Does my hon. Friend accept that more and more young statistics on post-16 education and skills. I can tell him people are looking to study part time, so that they can that the number of people in apprenticeships in the first go into higher education while continuing their work? quarter of 2009 showed a decline on the figures for the Does it not seem odd that nearly two thirds of part-time first quarter of 2007-08. There is now a downward students are unable to get any form of Government trend in apprenticeship participation, and if we are to support? reverse it, we need the policies that my party has put forward—policies for easing the bureaucratic burdens Mr. Willetts: Yes, and one of the things that we very on companies taking on apprentices, offering a fairer much hope will emerge from Lord Browne’s inquiry deal for post-19 apprenticeships and helping small businesses into the funding of higher education is a fairer deal for take on apprenticeships. That is the way forward, not part-time students. This relates to the previous intervention, the decline that is happening under this Government. but one of the ways forward is for people to combine working and part-time study at university. Frank Dobson (Holborn and St. Pancras) (Lab): Does the hon. Gentleman not agree, as a man allegedly of Dr. Andrew Murrison (Westbury) (Con): May I great intellect, that there has been a massive increase in congratulate my hon. Friend on including in the motion the number of apprenticeships available, compared with a mention of higher and further education colleges? If the situation that the Labour Government inherited we examine the Government’s amendment, we see that in 1997? it does not mention further education colleges, which is a serious omission, but perhaps one indicative of the Mr. Willetts: What has happened is that the Government way that this Government have treated further education have redefined apprenticeships, so that level 2 qualifications generally, and not least Wiltshire college in my constituency. —GCSE-equivalent qualifications—are now also called 795 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 796 apprenticeships. If we look simply at level 3-equivalent their backgrounds, would otherwise be unlikely to go to apprenticeships, which is what apprenticeships used to university. The key test is the purpose for which the be—in other words, if we look at apprenticeships that money is used. In this instance, it is being used for a are the equivalent of A-levels—we see that the history purpose about which Conservative Members care greatly: of the past 10 years is nothing like what the right hon. improving social mobility and opportunities in this Gentleman claims. In reality, there has been a decline in country. level 3 apprenticeships, which has been offset by the The Minister’s second objection, which we have just redefinition of level 2 qualifications as apprenticeships. heard from the hon. Member for Bolton, South-East That, I am afraid, is a classic example of this Government (Dr. Iddon), was that our proposed scheme would not failing in the real world but then redefining how their generate anything like the sums needed to provide 10,000 performance is measured so that they appear to be additional fully funded places. As I have said, the scheme doing better than they really are. already operates in other countries. Obviously the specific However, what I want to focus on, alongside our circumstances of countries differ, but early repayment proposals for new apprenticeship places and more training reward schemes operate in Australia, New Zealand and places at colleges, is the problems that universities will Canada, and in all those countries they generate substantial face this summer with the surge in applications and, if extra early repayments. We only need 1 per cent. to be anything, a decline in the number of university places. repaid early to fund our scheme. Indeed, it would be interesting if, when the Minister The Minister’s third objection was not expressed in a speaks in this debate, he can confirm the figures attributed particularly coherent way. He said: to the Higher Education Funding Council for England “The interest on the amount saved invested instead over the showing that there will be an absolute fall in the number period of the loan repayment by the graduate would outweigh the of university places this summer. We have come up with benefit of the discount by far.” a proposal to bring extra cash into the system to enable I think that, translated, that means that in the Minister’s this summer’s places crisis to be eased, and we have view it would cost more for the repayment to be made proposed a discount for the earlier repayment of student earlier, and that he would prefer to receive a flow of loans. With £30 billion of student debt outstanding by income from the interest receipts from the loan over a this summer, we would need only 1 per cent. to be paid period of years. My understanding is that he did not back early, bringing in £300 million, to enable us to pay want to end up losing interest on the amount that for 10,000 fully funded university places over three would otherwise have been repaid gradually. However, years. That would be an attempt to tackle a crisis facing he is proposing his own sale of the student loan book. young people this summer before having an opportunity The Government have taken powers to sell it. Indeed, to receive Lord Browne’s report, which we hope will put given some exchanges during the Committee stage of forward proposals for the long-term reform of higher the Sale of Student Loans Bill, it seems that they may education funding. have envisaged selling it at a discount—a larger discount, I rather suspect, than the 10 per cent. that we propose. Dr. Brian Iddon (Bolton, South-East) (Lab): The hon. It is all right for Ministers to sell the student loan Gentleman is talking about a discount of 10 per cent., book early at a substantial discount on a wholesale and comparing that with the Australian and New Zealand model, but as soon as we, in true Conservative manner, schemes, where the discount is 20 per cent. Has he seen give individuals the ability to choose whether to repay the figures calculated by millennium plus, which reached early with a 10 per cent. discount, apparently it is the conclusion that his policy will not raise the amount suddenly a bad return. All that we are doing is offering of money that he is claiming? a retail individual option alongside the wholesale option which, as we know, Ministers have been discussing with Mr. Willetts: I am surprised by some of the claims banks. I would welcome an assurance from the Minister made by millennium plus, because our estimates are that in no conversation with the banks has he ever extremely cautious. We require only 1 per cent. of the considered a discount of more than 10 per cent. for the outstanding stock of student debt to be repaid earlier to sale of the student loan book. I strongly suspect that he generate the cash needed for our policy, and that is a has considered a substantially larger discount, and I cautious assumption. therefore do not think that he is well placed to make However, I have heard the objections of the Government, that objection. and want to take a few minutes to go through them, because I do not think that they are well founded. We Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab) rose— had the opportunity to hear what the Minister’s concerns were in last week’s Guardian debate on higher education. Mr. Willetts: I look forward to hearing the hon. I want to do him the credit of going through his four Gentleman’s response to that. contentions and seeing whether any of them stand up. The first is that our policy is supposed to be Clive Efford: The hon. Gentleman cited the Australian “Regressive, benefiting only the very wealthiest graduates,” scheme. Will he confirm that it has proved unpopular the argument being that only wealthy graduates will and has not realised the funds for student numbers that wish to repay. The key feature of our proposal is to he suggested would be forthcoming, even given a 20 per enable more university places to be offered. The crucial cent. discount? point is that the extra applications this year are from students from black and minority ethnic backgrounds, Mr. Willetts: I do not think it is true that the Australian students from poorer backgrounds and students from scheme is unpopular. What we are talking about is families without a history of going to university. The individual choice. We are not compelling anyone to take 10,000 extra places will benefit students who, given this option; we are simply offering it as a choice for 797 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 798

[Mr. Willetts] apprenticeships and more places at college. All that we get from this Government is a retrospective, historical individuals. Individuals in Australia, New Zealand and motion and a set of completely unconstructive attempts Canada may wish to take advantage of it, and we will to prevent us from presenting a practical proposal for ensure that it is also available to individuals here in the action that would help to tackle the problem. United Kingdom. The Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD) rose— and Consumer Affairs (Kevin Brennan): The hon. Gentleman says that he proposes to provide more training places. Mr. James Plaskitt (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab) The motion says that as well. Presumably, it would rose— mean abolishing Train to Gain. How would that produce more training places, and how many more does the hon. Mr. Willetts: I will give way to— Gentleman think it would produce? Several hon. Members rose— Mr. Willetts: Our calculations suggest that the Train Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order. It is for to Gain budget should be refocused on new opportunities the hon. Member for Havant (Mr. Willetts) to decide to for people who are currently outside the labour market. whom he will give way. Too much of it is spent on providing qualifications—not necessarily any extra worthwhile skills or training—for Mr. Willetts: I am trying to make some progress, people who are already in employment, and whose Madam Deputy Speaker. I will give way to the hon. skills will not be enhanced by participation in Train to Member for Eltham (Clive Efford), but I must then Gain. I refer the Minister to the most recent report from make some progress. the Public Accounts Committee, which made clear that there is a significant problem of deadweight cost in Clive Efford: The hon. Gentleman cannot get away Train to Gain provision. We will redirect that money to with what he has said. The Australian scheme is not where the need is currently greatest—to extra training generating the income that he suggested his scheme places. would generate, even with a 20 per cent. discount. Does he accept that, and, if so, does it not undermine his Kevin Brennan: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? argument? Mr. Willetts: I will give way again to the Minister. Mr. Willetts: I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman says. We looked carefully at the Australian scheme, the Kevin Brennan: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman New Zealand scheme and the Canadian scheme. Of for his generosity in giving way. His motion calls for course there are differences between them—no country’s more training places, but he did not respond to my student loan system is exactly the same as that of earlier intervention by telling us how many more places another country—but all three provide the same option, he would produce by abolishing Train to Gain. and we are ensuring that British people will no longer be deprived of that option. The assumption that 1 per Mr. Willetts: We have clearly identified 300,000 places cent. of £30 billion—£300 million—will be repaid early over two years—a combination of apprenticeships and with a 10 per cent. discount is extremely cautious, and training places at colleges. Much of the money is currently that would enable us to fund 10,000 extra university being spent on, essentially, giving people paper qualifications places this summer. Otherwise, according to the figures without enhancing their underlying skills and without that we understand the Minister to be considering, improving their progression through jobs. In any event, there would be a fall in the number of places at the same those people are already in work. We have made a tough time as a surge in the number of applications. decision about priorities, which is absolutely the right The Minister must explain to young people throughout decision in the present circumstances. We have decided the country why he is willing to contemplate a doubling that our main priority should be new opportunities for of the number of people applying for university places young people: that should be the focus of our efforts. who will not be able to secure them. We believe that our I hope very much that Ministers will be similarly scheme will help to tackle that crisis, alongside our helpful if my hon. Friend the Member for South Holland extension of apprenticeships and training places at colleges. and The Deepings or I seek to intervene in order to Between them, our proposals add up to a coherent question some of their own assertions. approach. We intend to ensure, at a time of high employment under the present Government, that this We face a crisis this summer, with a declining number summer young people have an opportunity to take up of apprenticeship places, further education colleges under further education and training opportunities. severe financial pressure, and a declining number of university places. Conservative Members have been trying Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab) rose— to present practical proposals to tackle that problem.

Mr. Willetts: I propose to make some further progress Rob Marris: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? with my speech. The Labour party has not come up with a single Mr. Willetts: No. I want to make some progress. constructive proposal in relation to this summer. We are I want to hear from the Minister—indeed, from both looking ahead at a problem that we recognise to be of Ministers—a bit more information about what is happening great concern to young people and their parents. Ours is now to our college and apprenticeship provision. First, the party that is proposing more university places, more will the Minister confirm that, according to the most 799 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 800 recent estimates that have been reported and according I have been looking at “Liberal Democrat Voice”, the to the Government’s own plans, there will be 6,000 website on which we can follow the details of Liberal fewer university places this summer than last year? Democrat policy. When I printed out the relevant policy Secondly, will the Minister explain why, when I visited document from it, I was amazed to see that it began by Derby college last week, I was told that it was unable to saying that this was the first page of 842 pages, although offer as many engineering courses leading to higher I have to tell the hon. Gentleman that 837 of those national diplomas—an important form of practical 842 pages are blank. Only five pages contain any statements training—as it had in the past, because all the money on Liberal Democrat policy, although, to be accurate, was being spent on foundation degrees? That is a classic there are two pages describing the policy, followed by a example of the way in which the Government work. fascinating set of comments. One of them is from They transfer the funding for vocational qualifications someone who gives their name as “Norman Lamb 4 such as HNDs and higher school certificates to new Leader”, and it states that the latest Liberal Democrat initiatives such as foundation degrees. That may be proposal, which is somehow to abolish tuition fees worthwhile in a sense, but it will be done at the cost of within six years, is a fewer opportunities for people to work towards “Good idea but then how will the LDs fund universities in the qualifications that already well recognised and well future?” understood. That is a rather good question. We would all like to Will the Minister explain the following? Students know how the Liberal Democrat spokesman believes from a sixth-form college approached me recently to say universities should be funded in the future if that income that they had embarked on a two-year A-level course were ever to be sacrificed—although we also know that and that at the end of their first year, while doing their he no longer believes he can do that in the lifetime of a AS-level, they had been told that, because of funding Parliament. pressures, it would not be possible for them to complete There was another comment from a man called Tim their course with a second year and so get the full Leunig, whom I know. He is an academic—at the A-level. The college said that the AS-level was a qualification London School of Economics, I think—and he follows in its own right and that, sadly, it was no longer able to the subject closely. His comment on this public forum is: provide the second year of that A-level course. Does the “So how will univs be funded? Or is the LD policy to slash the Minister believe that that is happening in sixth-form quantity of tuition—Mickey Mouse degrees for all? As it stands”— colleges or elsewhere in the country and does he have we must remember that Tim Leunig is a Liberal Democrat any proposals to tackle the problem? policy adviser— Will the Minister also confirm that there are significant “this policy is as sensible as the old Soviet trick of cutting the pressures on the unit of resource of universities? Although price of bread—how will you pay for it?” he has been strangely reluctant to confirm this figure, Even on the Liberal Democrats’ own website, people does he agree that the Higher Education Funding Council are raising serious questions about how their policy is for England grant letter of 22 December 2009 made it to be paid for and what it means for universities and perfectly clear that the planned unit of funding, which students. was set at £4,140 at the beginning of the public expenditure period, had, in constant prices, fallen by 2007-08 to We Conservatives did not like fees, of course, but now £3,950, a reduction of £190? that they are generating revenues for universities, what the Liberal Democrats have to explain is what happens We fully understand that times are tight and that very to the funding of universities and what happens to the tough decisions need to be taken, and we cannot pretend quality of the student experience if that source of that all these reductions in provision can be avoided, funding is removed. They cannot have it both ways. but we believe Ministers should come to this House and They have given up on any credible claim that they can give a coherent overall explanation of what their public abolish fees in the lifetime of a Parliament. They now expenditure cuts mean for colleges and universities. say that, for some miraculous reason we have never fully Instead, we have a drip, drip, drip of information—yet understood, it can be achieved within six years, but they another announcement and yet another bit of a budget have never explained where the money is coming from. I cut somewhere. The reductions in funding and provision very much hope that when the hon. Gentleman comes are undertaken without any proper public explanation to speak, he will give us the latest stage in that fascinating of what is being done or why. That makes it much saga of the development of Liberal Democrat policy. harder for colleges and universities to adjust for the tougher public spending regime, because Ministers never Rob Marris: On where the money is coming from, I stand up at the Dispatch Box and level with them in a would like to take the hon. Gentleman back to the issue coherent manner about what they should bank on in of the 10,000 places. I salute him for trying to find a the medium term because times are so tight. We call solution to our present difficulties, but I have to say that Ministers to this House time and again because, above I do not think the figures add up. At present, 20 per all, what we want from them is a coherent and clear cent. of full-time students get no state support whatever. statement of what they are planning and why. Were there to be a discount, if only 5 per cent. of that It is good to see that the Liberal Democrat spokesman, 20 per cent. decided it was a good deal to take out a the hon. Member for Bristol, West (Stephen Williams), loan and get some grant support because they would is present, because I must say that his party really does get the discount, that 1 per cent. to which the hon. not do much better. In a previous debate on this subject, Gentleman is referring would already be gone. Part of I spoke about the extraordinary history of Liberal the problem with his scheme is that if quite a sizeable Democrat policy on tuition fees. I am sure that he will proportion of the 20 per cent. who at the moment do understand why I want to return to that fascinating not take out any loans decide to do so, that would more subject. than cancel out the early discount. 801 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 802

Mr. Willetts: The hon. Gentleman is making very The hon. Gentleman ended with a flurry by waving heavy weather of something that is very straightforward. the document by Dyson and saying, “Believe me, we are There is £30 billion-worth of debt already out there. going to take care of science in this country.” We The Conservative party is optimistic about the future. remember science facilities falling apart; there was no Our motion is a set of proposals for expanding ring-fenced science budget at that time. We remember opportunities for young people in apprenticeships, in the unit of resource falling, not by 10, 20 or 30 per cent, further education colleges and in universities in the but by 40 per cent between 1991 to 1997—that is tough times they are facing because of this Government’s according to the figures of Universities UK. What was mismanagement of the economy. it about students back in the days when the hon. Gentleman This week is national science week. To mark it, we was sitting in a Conservative Cabinet that meant that have produced an excellent report from Sir James Dyson, the student experience did not matter, that the unit of which clearly sets out how we can encourage high-tech resource did not matter and that science did not matter? investment in the future British economy. We have made Why should we, and why should students in this country, it clear that we back more information for students, believe him now? including not only advice and information on the web, but recreating a proper, professional, all-ages careers Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North) (Lab): Was the service. That proposal is even made in the so-called Conservatives’ approach not simply one of their wanting Milburn report on social mobility. The Government’s to make tax cuts for the rich? That was how they paid response in their document, “Unleashing Aspiration”, for them. was a simple rejection, which we think is completely wrong. Above all, we Conservatives believe in raising the quality of the student experience. That is what is Mr. Lammy: My hon. Friend has a long memory, and crucial to our universities. Of course we are confident the Conservatives still do want that, hence this proposal. that universities can achieve that, even in the tough Let us give the hon. Gentleman credit, as he is largely times they are facing as a result of this Government’s known for having two brains, although that of course is mismanagement of the public finances. We believe we in the context of his own party. It is clear, as has been offer a better prospect for our universities. All we have demonstrated in the House today, that this fatuous from this Government is more of the same: history proposal of an extra 10,000 places is elitist, with the lessons—looking backwards, not looking forwards. numbers not adding up and with students across the world, who have seen that such a proposal does not work, claiming that it is completely unfavourable to 7.48 pm poorer students. Yet again, he has not been able to explain the policy coherently or say where he would get The Minister for Higher Education and Intellectual the money from to take care of it. I shall return to that Property (Mr. David Lammy): I beg to move an amendment, later and I intend to repeat that point on every appropriate to leave out from “2010–11” to the end of the Question occasion between now and the general election. He is and add: not going to get away with it, and he can do a damn “commends the Government for its record levels of investment in sight better. higher education, an increase of over 25 per cent. in real terms since 1997, which has supported more students participating in higher education than ever before; notes a 24 per cent. increase in Mr. Rob Wilson (Reading, East) (Con): May I thank the number of students participating in higher education since the Minister for giving way in what would be regarded 1997, more young entrants to full-time first degrees in England as full flow? Can he explain to the House how many who are from state schools, lower socio-economic groups, and low participation backgrounds, and recent studies which have physics and chemistry departments this Government shown that over 50 per cent. of young people aspire to go on to have closed since 1997? higher education; recognises the Government’s commitment to expanding the range of pathways to higher education, including Mr. Lammy: Look, I do not want to embarrass the through apprenticeships, and to expanding the opportunities to participate in higher education, including through the development hon. Gentleman, but I should refer him to the fundamentals of foundation degrees, which have benefited 100,000 students; of our democracy and he would, thus, realise that the further notes that the Government is providing students with high Government do not run physics and other science levels of student support to enable them to access higher education; departments in our universities; vice-chancellors do. He and welcomes the proposals in the papers Quality, Choice and should know that. I should remind hon. Members that Aspiration, published in October 2009, and Higher Ambitions, the chancellor of Oxford university said about the published in November 2009, to provide prospective students Conservative party’s period in office that with better information, advice and guidance to enable them to fulfil their full potential.’.” “in just over a decade we doubled the number of students and halved the investment in each. The Treasury calls that higher Given the performance we have just witnessed, I do productivity—it’s a euphemism for poorer pay, degraded facilities, not really know where to start. I notice that the hon. less money to support the teaching of each student”. Member for Havant (Mr. Willetts) is wearing a spotted tie; this is a leopard changing his spots. We have witnessed That is what we saw previously and it is against that that an amazing Damascene conversion. In the opening part we will be judged. of his speech he used words such as “access” and “opportunity”, and at the end he mentioned “the student Mr. Jim Cunningham (Coventry, South) (Lab): Does experience”. As we look forward to what is to come this my right hon. Friend not recall that prior to 1997 things year, with the general election, it is important that got so bad and the Conservative party created such a students focus on the hon. Gentleman’s past form. They mess that it had to set up the Dearing inquiry, and it should remember, as we do, university buildings falling then postponed decisions on the student loans until to pieces. after the general election because it had lost its bottle? 803 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 804

Mr. Lammy: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for genuine about this aspiration and commitment. I know reminding us about the smoke and mirrors that the that a former shadow spokesman, the Mayor of London, Conservatives employed. They did the same in a number said: of areas. They promised to reform the tax system, but “In the words of every saloon-bar analysis of higher education what did they give us? They gave us the poll tax. They of the last 10 years, what we need is fewer graduates and more promised to deal with training resources, but what did plumbers”. they do? They abolished apprenticeships. That was the That was their position then and I suspect that it is their level of their commitment. position now.

Martin Horwood: Moving back to the current state of Mr. John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) education, is the Minister aware of the financial crisis at (Con): The Minister stood on a platform at the 2005 the university of Gloucestershire? The vice-chancellor election of the 50 per cent. target. Will he tell us what candidly admits that that has long-standing causes, but progress has been made? What percentage of young it involves the loss of teaching posts, the closing of the men, for example, go to university? Pittville arts and media campus, and tens of millions of pounds of debt. The university has nevertheless managed to attract a record number of applicants, but it has been Mr. Lammy: The hon. Gentleman knows that we scuppered by the indiscriminate way in which the cap have made progress, that we have reached 43 per cent. on student numbers has been applied by this Government, and that he opposed us at every single turn. Let me just making a bad situation even worse. spell out why this aspiration is so important. First, we should aim to meet it because it is right. If we believe in the principle that anyone can benefit from higher education Mr. Lammy: The very start of the hon. Gentleman’s and people deserve a chance to go to university to reap question referred to the long-standing issues that exist the benefits that a degree brings, we should not just pay at that university, and I know, as does he, that the lip service to the target; we should aspire to reach it. funding council is working closely with it on that. It is Secondly, it is right for economic reasons—for the disingenuous, in a sense, to lay that situation at the reasons that the Leitch review and the Sainsbury review Government’s door. pointed out. Mr. Willetts: Perhaps the Minister would answer the Christopher Fraser (South-West Norfolk) (Con): Will following simple question: how many physics departments the Minister give way? and chemistry departments at universities have closed since 1997? Mr. Lammy: Not at this moment. We all know that the unskilled jobs that Britain relied on previously are Mr. Lammy: The hon. Gentleman knows that, as I no longer in our economy and we must, therefore, make just said, the Government do not run physics and a reality of the knowledge economy, which means higher chemistry departments, but let me make it clear that we level skills and higher level education. We remain committed are not going to take any lessons from the party whose to the aspiration and we are heading in the direction of actions led to the creation of the Save British Science meeting it. campaign. Let me remind him that the number of applicants for physics has increased, as has the number I remind the hon. Member for Havant that, of applicants for chemistry and biology, and that we notwithstanding the Opposition’s fine words, year on have renewed facilities. It is absolutely clear that, because year under this Labour Government we have seen an of our commitment to a ring-fenced science budget, increase in the number of young people in higher education. science is in a much stronger position than it was There are more young people in higher education than previously. ever before in our history and there will be this year, too. There are more young people from poorer socio- Stephen Williams (Bristol, West) (LD): If science is so economic backgrounds at university than ever before in important to the Government—I understand that the our history and there are more black and ethnic minorities Minister cannot comment on institutional decisions—why at university than ever before in our history. That is the was the science budget specifically mentioned in the record on which we stand and even in tougher times we pre-Budget report as a likely target for future cuts? will still see increases in the numbers of young people going to university. Mr. Lammy: I have already said to the hon. Gentleman The 50 per cent. target—or aspiration—is important and I have already said in this House that we are because we are reminded that we still have a lot to do to absolutely committed to the science funding ring-fence get to the level that we see in other EU member states and remain so. and major competitors such as Japan and Australia. I do not believe that, as the hon. Member for Bristol, Let us return to the subject of this motion, which is West (Stephen Williams) has been quoted as saying, it is our 50 per cent. aspiration. It is not clear but a “fatuous”—he does not need to look nervous, as that is transformation has apparently been undertaken by the what he said. I also do not believe in the duplicity that hon. Member for Havant. My concern is that the right we have seen on this issue from the Opposition. hon. Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron) is, as is the case on many things, much less clear about the 50 per We have heard time and again— cent. aspiration. He once went on record saying that his party opposed the aim and, most recently, he was asked Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): Order. Duplicity about it on Mumsnet and he did not answer the question. is not a nice word, and I would be grateful if the So it is not really clear whether the Conservatives are Minister would withdraw it. 805 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 806

Mr. Lammy: You are quite right, Mr. Deputy Speaker. questions of him and time and again he has failed to Duplicity is not a nice word and I should not have used answer them—as we heard again today—or to furnish it. However, the hon. Member for Havant will recognise the House with the detail that is needed to prove that his that there is a tremendous amount of inaccuracy in the policy is anything other than a gimmick. It is a gimmick, way that he has used his words in the past. because he is simply attempting to give Conservative candidates a little bit of cover as they go out to fight the Mr. Willetts: As the Minister is concerned about general election. The Opposition do not really mean accuracy and inaccuracy, will he confirm that when we their pledge, because they are hugely exposed on higher look at the participation rates in higher education—the education. The hon. Gentleman keeps coming back to Government have typically redefined this on several this one policy on student places as a politically occasions, making it very hard to track consistently—it opportunistic device, even though he knows that he looks as if in 2003-04, 43 per cent. of young people cannot cost it, that it would favour the wealthy and the went to university and in 2007-08, 43 per cent. of young very rich, that it is completely regressive and that what it people went to university? Will the Minister explain offers is disingenuous. why the fact that the figure remained at 43 per cent. over That is why the million+ group of universities, made a five-year period constitutes progress? up of the universities dedicated to widening access over Mr. Lammy: We have had this ding-dong several a consistent period—the modern universities—will be times across the Dispatch Box. It is clear that we started very disappointed that the apparent future Secretary of with far fewer students in the system than we have now. State, whose aspiration is to be responsible for higher I have said before that I would have liked to have seen a education, describes the million+ group, these modern faster rate of growth in the number of students from universities, as millennium plus. He did that in the poorer backgrounds. However, the commitment made House today. He cannot even get the name right—that by the hon. Gentleman’s colleague, the hon. Member is how much he cares about the universities’ commitment for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr. Hayes), to to this agenda. That is perhaps why they described his abolish Aimhigher—I think that he has stated that in proposal for an early discount scheme as one that the House—will do very little. He is not departing from “doesn’t add up”. that commitment to abolish Aimhigher—the programme The current president of the National Union of Students up and down the country in our schools that supports Australia, Carla Drakeford, said of the hon. Gentleman’s young people from poorer backgrounds to get into proposal: university and that gets graduates back into schools so “The Australian experience shows that giving discounts for that participation rates rise. How will abolishing that early repayment of student loans is a con. Enticements to pay fund help with the issues that the Opposition are raising? early are a trick for all but those who go on to earn the highest wages. It’s a good deal for the wealthiest, and a poor deal for Linda Gilroy (Plymouth, Sutton) (Lab/Co-op): In the everyone else. That’s why very few students make use of the…discount in Australia. It’s simply not in the interests of the vast majority of constituency of Plymouth, Sutton there has been a students to take up discounts on what are effectively interest-free 67 per cent. increase in participation since 1997, taking loans.” the number of young people going to university to more than 400. There also seems to be a particular surge at Mr. Willetts: May I make it clear that during the universities that are part of the University Alliance Minister’s previous remarks, the hon. Member for Bolton, group, such as Plymouth, and in the number of students South-East (Dr. Iddon) raised his hands in what looked interested in the STEM subjects, such as maths and to me like an admission that the expression “millennium engineering. Does my right hon. Friend have anything plus” perhaps began with him? to say to such universities about how that can be taken forward, given that a very precious thing has been Rob Marris: Use one of your brains next time. established? Mr. Lammy: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is Mr. Lammy: Yes—it is the hon. Member for Havant very precious. I would say, “Snap,” to her—in Tottenham, who apparently has two brains, and he adopted that we have also seen an increase of 67 per cent. in participation new phrase. Before even taking power, he began to since 1997. Her emphasis on science, technology, engineering reform modern universities to such an extent that he and mathematics is the right one. I hope that she abolished them. That is an indication of what they can welcomes the plans that we set out in “Higher Ambitions” expect. in November to ensure that we support the growth in The hon. Gentleman must explain properly to the participation in science, technology, engineering and House how he would fund that proposal—[Interruption.] mathematics and that we continue to see such a rise and He says from a sedentary position that he has explained support universities, such as Plymouth, that want to see it, but he has not—or he has explained it badly. The a transition of students to those courses. universities do not understand it and students do not understand it, either in this country or in Australia. Mr. Hayes: Will the Minister give way? Apparently, the only person who understands it is him.

Mr. Lammy: I am not going to give way—I think that Christopher Fraser: The Minister talks about students I will make progress at this stage. I look forward to understanding things, and perhaps he could explain hearing what the hon. Gentleman has to say when he something to some students. UCAS published some makes his speech, because he is always very entertaining. figures on 22 January that show that last year, 158,000 Time and again, we have heard the hon. Member for of those students who applied for a place at university Havant pledge that he can create 10,000 fully funded failed to get one compared with 110,000 the year before. student places for the coming year. We have asked That suggests that without action that number will 807 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 808 increase. What message does the Minister give from his Christopher Fraser: What does the Minister say to Government to those students who will not get a place them? at university and who cannot get a job as a consequence of Government inaction? Mr. Lammy: The hon. Gentleman asks what I say to them. I say to them that sixth form is available, and we Mr. Lammy: Let us turn, then, to this issue— are funding that. I also say that advanced apprenticeships are available, and we have brought forward 35,000 more Christopher Fraser: No, answer it. of them—[Interruption.]

Mr. Lammy: I said, let us turn to this issue. The hon. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for South-West Gentleman should wait a moment. It is too early to say Norfolk (Christopher Fraser) is getting the answer that exactly how many students will be able to start university he is getting, whether he is happy with it or not. However, next year. We know that there will be more students having asked the question, he must not keep interjecting participating in higher education next year than there as the Minister replies. were this year. We also know that of course demand is up, but I remind Opposition Members that at this point Mr. Lammy: We have increased the number of last year they were saying that clearing would be over in apprenticeships available in further education to ensure half a day, that there would be a crisis and that the that young people can also access them. Government were failing to support students. We saw The Opposition have talked about unemployment, nothing of the sort: clearing went on for weeks, and but let us be clear: we set up the future jobs fund to thousands of places were available. We did not see the support young people at this time, and it is worth crisis that they predicted, although I see that the word £1 billion. The Chancellor has effectively borrowed that has been used again today. money to ensure that employers and local authorities It is too early to say. I do not know whether the hon. come forward to provide training and opportunities for Member for South-West Norfolk (Christopher Fraser) young people. That leads me to what will be the central has a child in the sixth form, or whether he has been discussion in the general election. The Opposition have into a sixth-form college recently, but I remind him that turned their face against that kind of borrowing, because students have not even taken their mock exams yet. they also say that we should cut now, and deeply. In They have not sat their A-levels yet, or received their fact, it was their intention to cut £600 million from my results. We do not know what they have got, so the Department’s budget 18 months ago, so desirous were funding council has made an estimation. Sir Alan Langlands they to cut funding. So, if the Opposition came to has said that it is an estimation, so let us see where we power, they could not fund the extra places even if they get to. wanted to.

Christopher Fraser: With all respect to the Minister, Mr. Hayes: I am grateful to the Minister for giving I asked a perfectly civil and polite question about those way, and I know that he is doing his best to answer this students who have been turned down already. I was not important question. He said that it is early in the cycle, asking about those who are currently doing exams, but and we respect that, but both he and the House know about those who failed to get into university last year. that it is inconceivable that the Department has not I gave the figure, saying that 158,000 students cannot modelled what is likely to happen, based on the experience get a place at university or a job. I would prefer it if the of previous years. It would be a very irresponsible Minister could answer in respect of his responsibilities Department, and a very irresponsible Minister, if those and not keep pushing the matter back across the Floor, projections had not been made. I think that the House because I believe that I am asking a perfectly civil owes it to the students concerned—and that he owes it question on behalf of 158,000 students in this country to the House—to share some of those findings with us. who deserve a better answer than the one that I have just been given. Mr. Lammy: The hon. Gentleman knows that we have said already that demand is up by 23 per cent. We Mr. Lammy: They will get the answer that I have are monitoring the matter, and looking at what is a given, which is, first of all, that there will be more changing pattern over the course of the year. There is students next year than ever before in our history. really nothing more to add, except to say that it far Secondly, it is too early in the cycle to say what will more likely that students will be at university under this happen this year, because students have not taken their Government, because we are committed to access and A-levels and no offers have been made. Thirdly, every participation. In contrast, the Opposition would impose year there are students who apply to university who do cuts now, and they have a scheme that cannot be properly not get in. I remind the hon. Gentleman that university funded or sustained. Under a Conservative Government, entrance is competitive by nature and that not everyone therefore, it is very likely that many fewer students who wants to go manages to do so in their first year of would go on to higher education. trying. However, all of that is against the backdrop of the fact that the Government have increased the number Frank Dobson: Does my right hon. Friend agree that of places year on year. There will also be further increases there seems to be some inconsistency among those on this year. the Opposition Benches? They appear to object to I remind the hon. Member for South-West Norfolk having a target or aspiration that 50 per cent. of young that every year there are students who get three A people should go to university, but they complain that grades but who do not go to university because they are there are not enough places at present. They had better unsuccessful in getting into the particular university or make their minds up if they want to be treated as an on to the particular course that they prefer. alternative Government. 809 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 810

Mr. Lammy: My right hon. Friend makes the point people are not sitting unemployed. That is why there succinctly and beautifully. I have nothing more to add, has been the decline in unemployment figures; they are except to say that I totally agree that the Opposition are employed and they are getting the skills, particularly the not clear about whether they are committed to the soft skills, that industry needs. aspiration or whether they are using it as an opportunistic We remain committed to widening participation and election ploy. access. We continue to monitor the situation for students this year, reflecting and remembering that now, in March, Linda Gilroy: I thank my right hon. Friend for giving we are still very early in the cycle. I would ask the hon. way, and I am sure that he is looking at future funding Member for Havant not to be opportunistic with his possibilities. Has he looked at discounts, and at how prospective parliamentary candidates and others about many people already pay back early? Has he made some this participation scheme, and ask him to think carefully assessment of what would happen if the sort of discount about the messages that he is sending to young people. proposed by the Opposition were introduced? I also say to him that if he is serious about wanting to stand on this side of the Dispatch Box, he must come Mr. Lammy: My hon. Friend is right to raise that forward with a proposal that is properly costed and issue, because a considerable dead-weight cost is attached funded and that is actually workable. I remind him to the proposal. In addition, inequality problems would again that when we announced our policy to provide arise because the proposal favours the very wealthiest the support that we are giving young people in this students, with poorer students possibly seeking to borrow more difficult economic time, he opposed those policies money in order to pay back early what they owe. For as well. He was wrong then and he is wrong now, and those reasons, we reject the Opposition proposal. that is why I suspect he will never make it from being Given the current nature of the economy, let us not a bad writer to being a Minister in a future Government. consider where graduates find themselves at this time. We are obviously pleased that the worst fears of the 8.21 pm Association of Graduate Recruiters about the effect of the recession on graduate vacancies have not been realised. Stephen Williams (Bristol, West) (LD): This time next The latest figures from the association and elsewhere week, we shall all be eagerly anticipating the Chancellor’s suggest that things in the graduate labour market are Budget, which may be his last both before and after the beginning to look up. The Government’s response to general election. We shall be waiting to see whether the particular problems that graduates have faced during there is a bold vision for higher education and research the recession and the help that we and our partners have in that Budget, but I think we would be foolish to hold given to enhance employability skills and to boost students’ our breath. CVs will now start to pay dividends. The creation of the This Government decided not to have a comprehensive graduate talent pool and of no fewer than 24,000 graduate spending review to cover the current period and the internships have been an important part of that, as has next two years, quite in contradiction of their previous the scheme that we launched recently with Raleigh practice, both under the current Chancellor and the International to provide overseas placements for young Prime Minister as Chancellor before him; yet higher people from poorer backgrounds. However, we must do education and research have been singled out for Budget more to help those who have taken up the new university cuts that have been announced so far, in stark contradiction places that we have created to carry the benefits of that to what has been announced for other Departments. opportunity through to the world of work. That is why Higher and further education have so far been the we also recently announced 8,500 internships with small victims of targeted cuts that are announced by the businesses, in partnership with the Federation of Small Government, either on a piecemeal basis or alluded to Businesses. Those internships are in priority sectors like in the pre-Budget report, which specifically mentioned the digital economy, the low-carbon economy and advanced science. I repeat my question to the Minister: what is the manufacturing, and we hope to see their number grow future for British science in this country when the over the next period. pre-Budget report specifically says that science should We hope that that approach will foster new relationships be a target for cuts in the next period? We will have to between small and medium-sized enterprises and wait for eight days to see whether the Chancellor expands universities. We also hope that it will also introduce on that. graduates to the jobs of the future and give them an We see the contrast, right at the top of the Government, insight into the world of the entrepreneur. We have also between the Minister’s superior, Lord Mandelson, at asked all higher education institutions to produce a the other end of the Palace of Westminster, and the statement on how they can promote employability, and Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families: on how they plan to make access to information about further and higher education have been put forward for employability outcomes available to prospective students. sacrifice in contrast to the message from the Department That hard effort to increase the number of internships for Children, Schools and Families. was scoffed at by the Opposition when we first proposed Lord Browne’s review is under way. My party considers it. They said that it would not and could not work, and that the review could have started a lot sooner and, that it was wasted money. However, I remind them that more importantly, could actually have concluded in our proposals are eons away from the failed youth advance of the impending general election. Then we training scheme that was offered to young people in the could have had a genuine debate, with three choices previous recession, when neither graduates nor young being put forward by the three parties, informed by that people who were a long way from going to university review in advance of the general election. Sadly, we were supported. We are working with the Federation of shall not get that chance at the coming general election, Small Businesses and with industry to ensure that young but it remains the position of the Liberal Democrats 811 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 812 that the current tuition fees model for part-financing Stephen Williams: I reiterate that the position of my higher education is bust, and should not form part of party is that tuition fees do not form part of the the long-term future of funding higher education. We long-term future funding of higher education. We have also specifically reject any moves for full variability in a six-year costed plan to phase out tuition fees, but tuition fees. The theoretical ability to vary tuition fees starting in year 1, 2010-11, we would remove the fees for exists at the moment, but if the cap were to come off or anyone studying for their first undergraduate course in were to be gradually lifted, it would lead to a market in their final year of study. That means that every student the cost of higher education, and that is a vision of the currently at university entering their final year in 2010-11 future that we simply do not share. would indeed be better off, and that applies in Chelmsford Although he is not listening at the moment, I congratulate as much as it applies in Bristol, West and other parts of the hon. Member for Havant (Mr. Willetts) on using the country. one of his brains to study the blogosphere very carefully. He obviously spends far more time on these matters Christopher Fraser: Will the hon. Gentleman answer than I do, whether it is blogs from my own side or from this question? The politics page on the bbc.co.uk website his, or from the Labour side of the Chamber. I am claims that the overall costs of the Liberal Democrat happy to confirm to him that scrapping tuition fees policy over six years is £7.5 billion. Who is right—the remains the position of my party. We have a six-year Liberal Democrats or the BBC? Who should these great proposal to achieve that objective. It is fully costed and students in this great nation of ours believe—the BBC will be set out in our manifesto. In year 1, 2010-11, it or the Liberal Democrats? will cost £595 million, and at the end of year 6 it will, on current figures, cost just under £3 billion. We will, as Stephen Williams: I think the simple answer, if I do always, be identifying the sources of those funds. the mental arithmetic, is that that is probably the cumulative cost over the six-year period. It is not the cost for each Mr. Simon Burns (West Chelmsford) (Con): The hon. year. I have already said that the cost in the first year is Gentleman has just confirmed that the Liberal Democrat £595 million. The cost in the final year—year 6—of the policy is to abolish tuition fees over a six-year period. full removal of tuition fees for both full-time students Can he now give a commitment—[Interruption.] That and part-time students, who are very important in this is right, isn’t it? equation, is on current figures £2.7 billion. Although I have not seen the article to which the hon. Gentleman Stephen Williams: Absolutely. refers, I would guess that the figure that he quotes is the cumulative cost of years 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. That was a Mr. Burns: The hon. Gentleman has just reconfirmed nice try, but I do not think he has disproved the figures it. Can he now give a commitment that Liberal Democrat that I am giving. candidates up and down the country will stop putting misleading statements in their leaflets that give the impression that all tuition fees will be abolished in Mr. Plaskitt: The hon. Gentleman clearly hopes that year 1? That is what the Liberal Democrats are doing students will be interested in his proposition that the and it is a fantasy. Liberal Democrats will abolish tuition fees, but they will also be interested in a question that flows from that. If the fees were abolished under his scheme and those Stephen Williams: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his students were at university, how would he replace the intervention. I understand he may be feeling a bit revenue that universities would have lost? Would he worried about some of the leaflets going out in his shrink the numbers of universities and students, reduce constituency, because Chelmsford is of course a target the experience, or do something else? for my party at the forthcoming election.

Mr. Burns: No, I am not. Stephen Williams: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman was not listening too carefully to what I said earlier about Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I say to the House, I that proposal being a costed proposal. Indeed, all of the appreciate that the general election is not very far away, quite limited number of extra-expenditure provisions but this—[Interruption.] Order. This is an extremely that the Liberal Democrats will put forward in our important subject, and both those who run our universities manifesto for the forthcoming election are costed proposals. and the young people who hope to go there will be Each of those proposals, whether for the pupil premium, either listening to our debate tonight or reading it in tax cuts for the low-paid or the phasing out of tuition Hansard tomorrow, and I suggest the House remembers fees, is fully costed. We have identified where all the that. money is going to come from, whether it is from refocusing tax credits, removing higher-rate tax relief for pension Stephen Williams: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I contributions or one of many other examples that I certainly hope that students follow this debate closely, could cite. Those examples will be quoted in full, as they and perhaps many of them will be reading Hansard always have been in every general election that I have tomorrow—who knows? fought as a candidate going right back to 1992.

Mr. Burns: Before the hon. Gentleman moves on, Mr. Lammy: The hon. Gentleman accepts that his could he actually answer my question? Will he stop his scheme would cost a considerable amount of money. candidates up and down the country misleading people He has previously described the 50 per cent. aspiration and suggesting, as many leaflets by Liberal Democrats as fatuous, so will he confirm that under a Liberal throughout the country do, that the policy would be Democrat Government there would be fewer students implemented and completed in year 1? attending university? 813 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 814

Stephen Williams: No, I am not prepared to confirm that Stephen Williams: Indeed, I do. When I have dispensed there would be fewer students, or, indeed, more. with the Conservative proposal, I shall turn to ours. The The Minister is probably quoting me out of context. Conservatives have put forward a completely ludicrous [Interruption.] Surely not, indeed, but I think that he scheme to offer a discount to students to pay their fees probably is when it comes to the 50 per cent. target. off early in order to gain a cash-flow advantage for the I think that I referred to the number as fatuous, because Student Loans Company and, indirectly, for the Treasury. it could well be 49 or 51 per cent. The fact is that, as the The hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West hon. Member for Havant eventually said, the proportion (Rob Marris) hit the bullseye with his question. This is of 18 to 30-year-olds attending higher education has Conservative funny money, I am afraid, and offers no been about 41 per cent. on average over the past decade. guarantee to young people that they will reap any In some years, it has been 39 per cent. and in some years advantage from this poorly costed, ill thought out proposal. it has been 43 per cent., but there has been relatively It is the higher education equivalent of the Conservatives’ little progress in the past decade, and unless we get flagship policy on taxes and the Treasury, where all they a sharp increase in educational attainment in our schools have to offer is a cut in inheritance tax for the very over the next decade, it is hard to see how we are going wealthy. The only people who are certain to benefit to get anywhere near 50 per cent. overall. We are close from the proposal from the hon. Member for Havant to that figure for young women, but we are nowhere are those students who are going to university and were near it for young men, whether they are white, working-class always going to do so, and who come from the wealthiest boys or boys of Afro-Caribbean origin, as the Minister families. There is no certainty that those from a poorer surely knows. background are going to—[Interruption.]

Martin Horwood: Does my hon. Friend agree that the Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I remind the Whips that consternation and multiple interventions that we have they are not supposed to intervene, and certainly not heard from Members of the other parties reflect their shout persistently from a sedentary position. It is not in worry that only one political party is going into this order. election under the watchful eye of my hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) with a fully costed Stephen Williams: To reiterate, in case it was lost in proposal to remove the burden of tuition fees and the that heckling, there is no certainty that poorer students debt that accompanies them from future generations of or those may lose out on a place this year will benefit, students? Is he not immensely proud of that as a Liberal although it is certain that richer students will do so. Democrat? Rob Marris: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Conservative proposal for 10,000 extra places covers Stephen Williams: I am sure that my hon. Friend is one cohort, which would go through university for absolutely right about the sage of Twickenham. I am three years? It is sometimes spun by Conservative politicians looking forward to many debates in the general election, as 10,000 extra university places, without their saying but particularly to the debate among the Treasury that those extra places are available in one year only, to spokesmen of the three parties. see the cohort through, which is sleight of hand. I shall now turn to the text of the motion, Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I have been attempting to do for the past Stephen Williams: The hon. Gentleman is quite right: 10 minutes or so. It focuses on the number of applicants there are lots of questions that the Conservatives have for higher education in the forthcoming academic year. yet to answer about their proposal, but I am sure that The Minister eventually conceded that there has been the election debate, whether it is between the three an increase in demand, as he put it, for places this year, spokesmen in the Chamber or between candidates up just as there was last year, but the people who apply this and down the country will draw that out. year will be competing with the people who lost out last Turning to the Liberal Democrat response to the year. In our debates at this time last year, Liberal crisis in university places and to the way in which young Democrat and Conservative Members pointed out that people have become victims of the recession, we, too, a crisis was unfolding before our eyes, and the Minister think that higher education is a good place for young said that the process was competitive—he has repeated people to shelter from the recession. We therefore propose that today—and that the people who lost out could 15,000 extra places, specifically in foundation degrees always come back in the following year. So the Government delivered in further education colleges in subjects such must have known that this year’s position would potentially as engineering, IT and logistics—skills that we need—thus be even worse than last year’s, but they do not seem to directly tackling the issues of social mobility and fair have a clear response to that yet. Their response last access to higher education. According to current statistics, year was completely inadequate: they eventually allowed roughly a quarter of the people who study for foundation universities to expand the number of places, but did not degrees come from low-participation neighbourhoods. provide them with the normal teaching grant from the Before the Minister or someone else springs up and asks funding council to make sure that places were funded, me where the money for that will come from, it also so universities took on the cost of the Government’s entails a refocusing of the Train to Gain budget, and lack of foresight and planning. has been costed at £120 million in 2010-11 to fund those As this is a Conservative Opposition day, I shall 15,000 extra places. It is a precise amount; we say address the Conservatives’ proposals. exactly what sort of provision there will be, where it will be delivered, what sort of subjects are involved, the amount of money it will cost and where that will come Mr. Lammy: Does the hon. Gentleman have a proposal from. That Liberal Democrat proposal contrasts with to put to the House? the Conservatives’ funny money proposal. 815 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 816

Rob Marris: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? put forward at the election is the introduction of a pupil premium, so that schools whose pupils who come from Stephen Williams: For one last time. a disadvantaged background—for example, those on free school meals, as I was when I was in school—will Rob Marris: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. He get extra money for the pupils in their care to invest in will forgive me if I missed it earlier, but he has talked smaller class sizes, smaller teaching groups or one-to-one about 15,000 extra places and has clearly set out where intervention in order to make sure that young people do he thinks the £120 million will come from—presumably not fall behind. [Interruption.] every year, and not just for one cohort. His proposal to The hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West abolish tuition fees in university, on the current number says from a sedentary position, “We already do.” It is of students, is equivalent to a commitment of approximately true that deprivation funding is granted to certain schools, £1.2 billion a year, when it is worked through at the end but that is done on a postcode basis. He will know that of the six-year abolition period. He has told us where poverty can be found in more affluent areas and the the funding will come from for the 15,000 extra places. schools funding formula does not necessarily reflect the Can he tell us where that £1.2 billion a year, every year, fact that in a school where the children overall come will come from? from better-off backgrounds, the funding formula does not provide extra funds for some children. We have Stephen Williams: We are going back in time to try to proposed a pupil premium which is proven to work cost the overall proposal to phase out tuition fees. I can elsewhere, most notably in Holland, in order to give assure the hon. Gentleman that it is not just my hon. schools extra money. Free school meals is just one of Friend the Member for Twickenham who makes sure the proxy measures that we will use to ensure early that the sums add up. I make sure that they add up in intervention, so that children do not get left behind. my portfolio as well. Our proposed extra foundation Mr. John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): Is degree places for year 1 and year 2—foundation degrees my hon. Friend aware that in some schools in my are a two-year programme—are fully costed in the constituency—the constituency that is considered the second year as well, and our aspiration in the second most affluent of the Manchester constituencies—some year to start phasing out the final year tuition fee cost is schools will get hundreds of thousands of pounds extra taken into account. That was dealt with in my previous under our pupil premium proposals? answers. Widening participation is mentioned in the Conservatives’ Stephen Williams: I am fully aware of that. Schools in motion, but they had remarkably little to say about it. my hon. Friend’s constituency, in the constituency of There has been a dramatic increase in the number of my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Martin people attending university over the past 40 years, if not Horwood), in my constituency, Bristol, West, and more in the past 10 years, but that increase in participation in importantly, in constituencies all round the country higher education has not been a socially balanced increase. where there are disadvantaged children will be direct That is the problem on which we should now focus. We beneficiaries of our pupil premium policy. It is by know that in some social groups there is saturation investment in education in schools or FE colleges that point among those who go into higher education, whereas we will drive up attainment at 16 and increase progression in other social groups things have barely changed since to 18, so enabling more people to participate in higher the 1960s. The child of a manual worker who did not go education. to university is just as unlikely to go to university now That is the point that I have always made—to return as in the 1960s, when I was born. to the Minister’s intervention about the 50 per cent. target. The logical result of our pupil premium policy is Mr. Willetts: If the hon. Gentleman concedes that in that more people from a socially disadvantaged background some groups we have reached saturation point, in his will have the opportunity to participate in higher education, words, does he not understand that that is precisely why and then the numbers will naturally rise. It is more our proposal for extra places in summer 2010 is socially credible to have a policy that drives up attainment and progressive? It is the people from the backgrounds that participation, rather than to set a futuristic target and are less likely to go to university, which is where the expect everything to flow through in order to meet it. extra applications are concentrated, who will be helped Our policy will be fully funded and it will be set out by our proposal. clearly in our manifesto alongside our other proposals.

Stephen Williams: The hon. Gentleman is desperately Mr. Lammy: The hon. Gentleman says that it will be trying to claim some sort of socially progressive message fully funded. When questioned by my hon. Friend the from the Conservatives’ proposals. Only one side of the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris), equation is certain—who will benefit from the discount. he put his hand up, in an Arnold Schwarzenegger The other side of the equation—who will benefit financially “Hasta la vista, baby” moment, but he did not actually from the provision of extra places—is remarkably uncertain answer the question. He has to explain where the Liberal because we cannot be sure how many extra places there Democrats would get the money from to fund their will be, where they are or whether they are guaranteed proposal and get the increase, and he has not done so. for the full period of a three or four-year degree programme. Where would the money come from? If we are serious about socially balanced access to Stephen Williams: We are widening the debate into higher education, we know that the solution does not lie the costing of manifestos. I am happy, for the Minister’s in our differences over higher education policy. It lies in benefit, to reiterate what I said in answer to previous driving up attainment in our schools. That is why the interventions. The package of Liberal Democrat proposals most costly proposal that the Liberal Democrats will at this election, whether they be for fair taxes for the 817 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 818

[Stephen Williams] Several hon. Members rose— low-paid, the pupil premium for schools, the phase-out Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Six speakers are seeking of tuition fees, or extra police officers and youth workers to catch my eye, and we have about 50 minutes left. If on the streets, will be met by cutting back tax credits for hon. Members can exert a little self-discipline and take some families, taking away higher rate pension tax relief something under 10 minutes each, we will try to get for higher rate taxpayers, and closing some loopholes everybody in if we possibly can. in the tax system so that we equalise up the tax rates that people pay on their capital gains to those taxes that people pay on their income or savings—a loophole that 8.50 pm the Prime Minister opened up during his business-friendly Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North) (Lab): Thank you, days as Chancellor. We will not have identity cards as Mr. Deputy Speaker. I shall be very brief. I want to put part of the future furniture of British life, and we will out a radically different message from those that we not have a bells and whistles replacement for Trident have heard so far. It does not represent Government either. That is quite a long list of how our spending policy or Opposition policy, but it certainly represents a proposals will be funded. I look forward to similar socialist policy. candour from the Minister and from the Chancellor in I shall describe where we have come from. When I a week’s time and at the forthcoming election about was a student in the 1960s, we had full grants and no how the Labour Government will deal with their aspirations fees. Indeed, my wife was a student at a teacher training for the future and how they will tackle the current college, and she had a full grant on which she could live deficit in public funding. throughout the year, with no fees. I remember my late The other way that we deal with widening participation father, who was then chair of Barnet constituency Labour in higher education, apart from the pupil premium, is party, saying at that time, “It won’t be long before we’ve by having some higher education outreach programmes abolished means testing, we’ll all get full grants and it’ll in our schools and developing long-term relationships be paid for out of progressive general taxation.” That is with schools in low-participation neighbourhoods, so what we looked forward to at that time. Now, we have that more young people will progress to university in many more students at university but we have gone way the future. Flexible provision must also be part of that back on that situation, and that is regrettable. future, both for part-time students and for a key role for In 1998, much to my surprise, our Government further education. introduced a Bill that abolished grants and introduced It is also important that we pay some attention to the fees. It was not in our manifesto, and I was one of33 Labour subjects that young people study when they achieve MPs who voted against it. I was very disappointed, and access to higher education. We have said many times in I subsequently voted against top-up fees as well. The this debate that we need a revolution in information, National Union of Students has a modest proposal, advice and guidance provided to young people. A related saying that specific proposal that the Liberal Democrats will put “university education should be free at the point of use, with forward at the election is of a national bursary scheme graduates giving back to the system depending on how much they to incentivise people to take certain shortage subjects or earn”— strategically important subjects at university. If we do in other words, through general taxation. That just not get more people taking science, technology, engineering involves abolishing fees, essentially, and the union also and maths, we will not have the people with the answers says: to climate change, we will not be able to build 21st-century “NUS believes that businesses should be expected to make a transport infrastructure and we will not have the people greater contribution.” who can develop our digital economy in the future. If we restored corporation tax to its 1997 rate, which We need to enthuse the young about science. This would not be difficult for companies to adhere to, we afternoon, I had a very enjoyable visit to the National would have another £6 billion or £7 billion to spend, Physical Laboratory in Teddington, which reawakened and that could go straight into higher education. A my own enthusiasm for science, where I heard, amongst figure of £1.2 billion to abolish student fees is a small its many schemes for science outreach, about the “protons price: it represents about one third of a pence on the for breakfast” programme. We also need to ensure that standard rate of tax, or about one seventh of our science is taught well in schools, by having teachers who subsidy on the savings of the richest 1 per cent. of are qualified in the subjects and schools that can teach people in the country. Those are small sums of money, the full three sciences rather than just general science. and if we look at the tax gap, we find that the vast Investment in higher education and research is key amount of money that is not collected due to tax both to this country’s future prosperity and to ensuring evasion, tax avoidance and whatever is estimated to be that we have some of the answers for the future, whether well over £100 billion a year. The money is there if we they be in health, climate change, or delivering social choose to find or raise it, and we could pay for a fully mobility, which we have also discussed this afternoon. free system of higher education, with grants for all our The response of the rest of the developed world to the students. current recession has been to announce investment in The hon. Member for Havant (Mr. Willetts) suggested higher education and research over the next decade. We that we persuade more people to take up apprenticeships will have to wait eight days to see whether the Government rather than to go to university, but I want to see a world share that vision. The Liberal Democrats certainly believe where there is a continuum, in which studying at university that there must be investment in higher education and and being an apprentice are rather similar. The difference research so that we can have both an economically is that if one is an apprentice, one gets paid; if one is at prosperous future and genuine social mobility. university, one has to pay for the privilege. That suggests 819 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 820 that university is something for the affluent middle class, to a better future for the many. Just as the number of because that is where they pay, and that apprenticeships people going to universities has increased, so has the are for working-class people, who cannot afford to go to number of courses that are available. university. That is profoundly misguided and wrong. Yet too often that kaleidoscope of options breaks I want to see a world in which students, whatever down into a black-and-white outcome. On the one their social background, have a choice, do not suffer a hand, for those who go to university because they have penalty by going to university and do not feel forced to the motivation and application, it is the perfect continuation go into an apprenticeship because of financial arrangements. of their intellectual education. On the other hand, a People should not choose to go to university when an wasted minority go to university because of the paucity apprenticeship is more appropriate, but mention was of alternatives. Too often, those who would be better made of the student experience, and that varies depending served by apprenticeships, foundation courses or being on one’s affluence and background. I have often imagined in work are funnelled into full-time courses with no a scene where, at the same university, the working-class benefit to their lives. Three or four years later they students, who do not have much money and have to emerge, saddled with at least £9,000 of debt and with no borrow, work in bars and serve drinks to the wealthy clear idea of what they want to do. They are no better students who do not have to work. Indeed, if one is a off than when they started. That is a long time to be student from a less academic background, and one has going in the wrong direction at such a high cost. to spend more of one’s time and energies raising money The issue of access to higher education has become to study, one’s performance in one’s studies can be confused with getting as many people into university as damaged, so we should be concerned about the student possible. University is right for some, but not for all. A experience. blanket approach of 50 per cent. participation may be What is going to happen? Students now leave university one way to unlock potential, but it will not produce the with average debts of £20,000, and the NUS suggests best results for 100 per cent. of the people who go. The that the figure might double in time. That will be a Government are trying to offer more inclusive universities. serious disincentive to many. It has also been suggested Instead, they should be creating more inclusive routes that the lifetime financial advantage of going to university to future jobs. is starting to taper downwards slightly; it is becoming The Government must take a step back. Employers, less financially advantageous to go to university, and voluntary associations and colleges could then work the way forward should be the funding of education at together to create a more flexible and worthwhile system every level through progressive taxation. There are countries for those who choose not to go to university. A greater that do that—Finland, for example, does not charge; range of alternative courses—part-time or work placement everything is paid for by the state in its state education courses—would then exist, as well as the option of a system. That means that everybody has a fair crack of local college or university. These could be based around the whip and that nobody has to suffer because of their jobs that genuinely cater for people’s talents. inability to pay. Some proposals have been made on a more flexible Those are some of the points that I wanted to make; approach. Increasingly, access to higher education courses many of the others have been made already. In conclusion, and foundation degrees is being offered through I should say that in our local town is the university of partnerships with further education institutions. This Bedfordshire. I was chair of governors at the college of brings opportunities closer to local people. Students higher education that became the university. It is a unable to afford the cost of higher education away from splendid university that does a wonderful job. Its students home can still access some level of higher education are very diverse—a large number come from ethnic nearby. I believe that the current figure for such courses minorities or from not traditionally academic backgrounds is 10 per cent. of the higher education total. The and many do degrees as adult and part-time students. Government’s policy paper, “Higher Ambitions”, noted: That is the sort of university that really makes a difference. “We are committed to the enhancement of locally accessible It does a fantastic job and gets awards for the quality of higher education that can create new opportunities for individuals its teaching and the employability of its students. Just and their communities.” recently it has been expanding research in the STEM— Yet I find it difficult to square such a statement with the science, technology, engineering and maths—subjects, impending cuts in higher education. Forcing universities and it is doing a tremendous job on that. The university to save £449 million will probably lead them to focus of Bedfordshire deserves support, but it is not getting on core, rather than supplementary, services. That will lower sufficient support at the moment. We should lift the cap the number of partnerships between universities and on student numbers and encourage all our universities colleges, and in doing so limit people’s access to higher to take as many students as they can in future. That education, which so many have taken advantage of. would benefit society, the universities and young people. We must foster a culture in which people are not I hope that my right hon. and hon. Friends on the Front burdened with the expectation that they must go to Bench have listened to what I have said. university when they would better placed pursuing a more realistic alternative. Worthwhile jobs should have the same standing as degrees. Access to higher education 8.56 pm should be seen as a lifelong opportunity, and not simply Mr. Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): It is clear be focused on those turning 18. We must encourage that ensuring access to higher and further education is people’s interests and abilities through the choices made in the best interests of most students. Whenever the available to them. “Give me a place to stand”, Archimedes desire to access such education exists, we must give said, “and I will move the world.” We must recognise people the opportunity to fulfil their potential. Action that university is but one place to stand—there are has been taken towards that end. University has gone other places—and we must ensure that we offer every from being a rite of passage for the few to being a right 18 or 19-year-old a practical and achievable opportunity. 821 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 822

[Mr. Andrew Turner] role in the west midlands economy. The Warwick manufacturing group has become world renowned for 9.2 pm its contribution, and Warwick’s medical school, which is new under this Government, now trains around Mr. James Plaskitt (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab): 1,000 doctors and levers in important private research As you rightly said, Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is a very money. It is now involved in some leading aspects of important debate. I know that young people will be medical research. Warwick medical school is supported following our proceedings, and I am pleased to make a by £6 million from Advantage West Midlands, the contribution, not only because of that, and not only regional development agency. I am concerned at the because I am a recovering academic. I taught in the suggestions we hear from the Opposition parties that university system in the mid-1980s, and I recall what it RDAs might disappear, which again does not sit very was like at that time—the inadequate facilities that we neatly with their alleged aspirations to improve universities were trying to cope with, the limited experience that and the university experience. students had, the pressure on courses, the large seminar groups, and the difficulty that many had in getting into Many of those developments have been supported by the system. The system of the 1980s short-changed the controversial reform of funding, about which we students who were at university and denied life-changing have had intense debates. However, I believe that we opportunities to others who should have been at university have settled on a fair policy. It recognises that there will but could not get there because of the lack of funding. continue to be a major public contribution to support people going through university, but also that there will One of the reasons I left academia to come here was be a contribution from the students themselves, reflecting to try to address some of those problems and to seek a the long-term advantage that they will gain. I wanted a transformation in the university experience of students, review after the original cohort had left university, and which is what has been happening for the past 10 years. I am pleased that that is now happening. I am delighted I wanted more people to go to university and those who that the review will involve student representation—indeed, did go to enjoy high-quality courses. About 300,000 more students will be represented by a Warwick university students are now going to university, and the chances of student. We should await the outcome of the review, but getting there have improved. I did some research that if it concludes that we are keeping the fees system, shows that 10 years ago about 64 per cent. of those I hope that we will not depart from the core principles applying to university got in; the figure now stands at of widening access, improving quality and matching about 68 per cent., so there is a distinct improvement. In any change in fees with changes in grant. my own constituency, which started from quite a high base, the figure has risen by a further 27 per cent. in the May I make one long-term proposal to my hon. past 10 years. Friend the Minister? Can we think again about child trust funds? I raised that in 2003 when we debated I wanted extra investment to go in to support each revising the cap on fees, but I want to talk about it student who was at university, and that, too, is exactly again. The first child trust funds will be fully maturing what has been happening—it is up by a third in real in about eight years’ time. Will the Government consider terms and now stands very favourably against the OECD allowing some people to convert their child trust fund average. I wanted more students from lower income as it matures into an education trust fund if they choose backgrounds to get into universities, and because of the to use it to fund themselves through university? If they policies that we have been pursuing, we are seeing the come from a family background that meant that they fastest rise in access to university for students from benefited from additional top-ups during the growth of lower decile backgrounds and some of the poorest and the child trust fund, could we not provide a further most deprived areas in the country. top-up if it is converted into an education trust fund? One thing that is making a big difference on that is That, too, would go a long way towards long-term education maintenance allowance. EMA support makes investment for education, and is part of what we must the difference for people who might otherwise have left do to widen opportunities and diminish inequalities. the education system at 16 making the choice to stay in. We should be thinking not about abolishing the child Because of EMA, they see their potential and realise trust fund, as we hear from Opposition parties, or about that they can get to university. Any proposal to scale limiting its scope, but about widening it in imaginative back EMA or to abolish it completely, which we are ways to serve those longer-term educational objectives. hearing from Opposition parties, would be detrimental When I have discussions with year 10 students in to their declared objectives for universities. schools in my constituency, I do not find a great love for I wanted more investment in further education colleges fees, but I also find no great love for the alternatives as well as in universities. In my constituency, we have when they are discussed. That is certainly true when we seen a transformation in Warwickshire further education discuss the graduate tax or having a slimmed-down college in the past 10 years—a record level of investment university system as a way of getting rid of fees. Those and a sharp increase in the number of students who go students accept that we must share the costs fairly. They through. That is partly attributable to the inspirational will carefully scrutinise what we propose after the review, leadership of Ioan Morgan, who is due to retire this just as they scrutinise ideas and suggestions now. They summer, and whose great work and contribution should have spotted the quack remedy that we have heard from be acknowledged. the Opposition this evening, funded as it is by the I have also seen the difference in the two local universities, bizarre belief that tens of thousands of new graduates Coventry and Warwick. The latter is now among the will rush to make early repayments of their loans—an top universities internationally. It is highly successful at unreal suggestion. securing private investment, but it is still dependent on The Government have higher ambitions, and the significant public investment to sustain it. It plays a key young people we are talking about have higher ambitions 823 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 824 for themselves. I am certain that the only way that those that they are entitled to and so desperately need. It is ambitions will be realised is if we maintain the approach causing huge problems—some students have dropped to universities and funding that we have seen from this out already and others are on the verge of doing so. Government over the last 10 years. While the current drop-out rate stands at about 7 per cent. for universities, I have little doubt that this figure will rise in light of the student loans crisis of the past 9.10 pm year. I recently raised the current situation with Reading Mr. Rob Wilson (Reading, East) (Con): I am grateful university, based in my constituency. As things stand, for the opportunity to contribute to this important about 200 students at Reading university are still awaiting debate on access to higher education. I wish to focus my loans from Student Finance England, although I find it comments this evening on the challenges facing those remarkable that the organisation is unable to produce who are already studying at university, because we an accurate list, so it is impossible to determine the should not have a debate about improving access to exact number of students affected by the ongoing crisis. higher education without considering the alarming level Reading university is doing its best to help those who of drop-outs—a situation that has been made much have contacted it for help, but many students have worse by the student loans fiasco that the Government probably not contacted the university, as I found out oversaw last autumn. Remarkably, they are still making when I visited one of the halls of residence and discussed a giant cock-up of that as we speak. the matter with students. It is highly likely that Reading It is fair to say that no hon. Member would disagree university is far from unique, and other universities that widening access to higher education is very important. throughout the country have students who are still Indeed, I would go as far as to say there is something of affected. a cross-party consensus with regard to intention. There As things stand, many students are hanging on to is general agreement that all young people, whatever their degree courses by their fingertips. I am sure that their background, should have the opportunity to have the whole House would agree that this is an unacceptable a place at university if they have the ability. Young state of affairs. In the context of today’s debate, I fail to people have no lack of aspiration, but there are clearly see how such ongoing failure and incompetence can be barriers to that aspiration. That is why we must all do seen as a commitment to widening participation or what we can to ensure equality of opportunity for all. widening access. In fact, it is disastrous for widening Last year, according to UCAS, 158,000 people who participation. Let me be absolutely clear: it is the most applied for a place at university failed to get one—40,000 hard-to-reach groups that are being made to suffer the more than in the previous year. That suggests to me that most in this debacle. That should be to this Labour the number of disappointed applicants will increase Government’s eternal shame. Having overcome all sorts again this year, possibly by an even greater number. The of personal obstacles and barriers to secure a university situation is being exacerbated by the fact that many place, many disabled students are still not getting the applicants, who would have otherwise secured employment, financial support that they need and deserve. have been encouraged to apply to university by the Astonishingly, recent figures from Student Finance sharply contracting job market. Let us not forget that England have shown that only 6,000 of the 19,000 some 1 million young people are now not in education, applications for disabled students allowance have been employment or training. This recession has hit the processed. Last month my hon. Friend the Member for young particularly savagely. Forest of Dean (Mr. Harper) asked the Minister about The harsh reality is that despite a sharp rise in the disabled students allowance. The Minister confirmed applications, many bright and able young people will be that 27 per cent. of applicants were still awaiting the denied a university place, especially as we expect a result of an assessment, and that payments had been reduction of 6,000 undergraduate places in 2010-11. If made to only 29 per cent. of applicants. Although that is not a signal that the Labour Government have recipients of the grant constitute a small number of the failed young people, what is? Even Pam Tatlow, who overall student population, figures show that in 2007-08 represents million+, and who apparently wants to be a they totalled 40,700. Indeed, in a parliamentary answer Labour MP, believes that what Labour has done in given in November in the other place, the figure given cutting university places is wrong. In its report entitled for total expenditure on such students was £90 million, “Scarred for Life”, million+ said that which equates to an average of £2,210 a student. “young people who might have gone to university, risk being Assuming that the numbers have grown slightly since relegated to the ranks of the long-term unemployed, with all the 2007-08, by my calculations around 30,000 disabled personal, family and health consequences this brings”. students have not received their proper entitlement. If Pam Tatlow and her report are right. The Government that had happened under a Conservative Government, are not doing enough to help while our young people there would quite rightly have been howls of outrage, struggle. They are allowing the talents of a swathe of not least from newspapers such as The Guardian,yetwe young people to be wasted. have heard little or nothing about it. It is with great In fact, the Government have failed young people sadness that I say that it is our most vulnerable students since they came to power in 1997 by largely failing in who are being let down by this useless, inept Government. their efforts to widen participation in higher education. I find the situation shocking and, quite frankly, Rarely has so much money been spent to such little unacceptable. How could any Government manage to effect. It is scandalous when we consider the reality of be so incompetent? what has happened. However, it is not just disabled students who have As well as this 13-year failure, there is also the scandal been let down. Many families on low incomes have also of the past year and the student loans fiasco. Many been affected. That is because anything over and above students still have yet to receive the financial support the basic level of a maintenance loan is means-tested, 825 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 826

[Mr. Rob Wilson] Government, and eventually—until the present Administration took control—non-specialists were trying and the processing element of such requests is done to teach very technical subjects. Given that factor alone, after the standard loan has been decided. That means is it any wonder that there was little demand for university that mature students with considerable family places for the study of science and engineering? responsibilities are suffering. Such students from non- In the 1960s and 1970s, there were four examples of traditional backgrounds are the very people whom this what I would term colleges of advanced technology, Government have preached about helping into higher churning out thousands of scientists and engineers. education, and the very people who are on the verge of They were Brunel, Aston, Salford and Bradford. What dropping out, owing to the disgraceful lack of financial happened in 1981, just after the Conservative Government help and support. had taken control? Those four colleges almost closed. It Such people are often the recipients of child care is true that the Conservatives made them into universities, grants and adult dependent grants. The figures for but then they almost closed them. John Ashworth, the 2008-09 show that 9,800 students in England received new vice-chancellor of Salford university, arrived in child care grants worth a total of £36.1 million, which is 1981 to face—and this is the truth—a 44 per cent. cut in an average of just under £3,700 for each student in funding for a single university, and that was not uncommon. receipt of the grant, while 7,800 students received a All the other colleges of advanced technology churning total of £18 million in adult dependent grants, an out all those scientists and engineers suffered similar average of just over £2,300 for each student. Those cuts, which completely destabilised their chemistry, physics people are in real trouble, and yet Student Finance and engineering departments. England is apparently completely unable to provide any Salford used to have the largest chemistry department data on the backlog, because payments are being processed in the country; it also taught physics very adequately, manually. Can you believe it, Mr. Deputy Speaker? Tens and had a very good mathematics department. Even of billions of pounds have been spent by this Government more important, it had large and productive engineering on computers, and yet the funds to reach some of our departments teaching civil, mechanical and electrical poorest students are being processed manually. You just engineering, and the graduates experienced no trouble could not make it up if you tried. in obtaining jobs in British industry. Following the I do not criticise the support package itself; indeed, it cuts made by the Tory Administration, however, those is commendable. In a written answer to my hon. Friend departments closed one by one, and there were similar the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs. Miller), the Minister developments throughout the British university system. confirmed that a child care grant of up to £13,260 a The cuts continued. Between 1989 and 1997, there year is available for eligible, full-time undergraduate was a 36 per cent. fall in funding for students in our students with children in child care, although as I have higher education system. The truth is that the Conservatives just mentioned, the average works out at about £3,500. caused those departments to close, and caused the Let us put the exact figures aside, however. How can shortage of scientists and engineers in this country. people look after their children if the money has not They have asked the same question three times, and arrived for the past six months? Where is the money now I have given them a truthful answer. now, and when will it be paid? How can a family survive When the present Administration took control in in such circumstances? Although only 0.5 per cent. of 1997, the buildings in our universities and schools were students are eligible for support, they are in many ways in a shocking state. I am proud of my Government for the most affected. Such students are crucial to the investing so much money—not just revenue expenditure widening of participation, and they should be nurtured. to support students in our universities, but tens of Let me say one last word before I am told to sit down. billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money to bring not [Interruption.] The Front Benchers spoke for an hour only schools but, in particular, universities up to a and a half, and I want to have the final say. decent standard. I am now proud to enter the chemistry Another group has been let down by incompetence department of Manchester university, and to compare on account of another failure to deliver the financial the state of its laboratories today with the state the assistance that was promised. This Government can laboratories that I knew under the Conservative never again preach about widening participation, given Administration. Students now want to study and research that they cannot even deliver on their basic duty of care in those laboratories, but if they had gone to a university to disabled students and mature students who want to such as Manchester for an interview during the Conservative look after their families. Administration, they would have seen some very shoddy laboratories. 9.20 pm I want to be parochial for a few moments. When I was first elected to represent my constituency in 1997, Dr. Brian Iddon (Bolton, South-East) (Lab): I want to not one of my secondary schools had a sixth form explain, in clear language, why so many chemistry and attached to it. The only sixth-form college was physics departments close. That accusation was made geographically remote from many of my constituents, by the Conservatives, and it is true. so they either did not bother to get a qualification that There are two main reasons why it has happened. would give them access to university or they had to First, under the Conservative Government teaching travel out of the borough to Bury or Salford, or they was made a very unattractive proposition owing to the had to go to the other two parliamentary constituencies huge cuts that were forced on secondary schools. Secondly, where the schools did have sixth forms attached to the number of specialist teachers available to teach them. Today the position has completely turned around. physics, chemistry and mathematics in those secondary Thanks to this Government, a brand new community schools fell under successive years of Conservative college is now under construction in my constituency, 827 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 828 and I also have a new sixth form under construction. milestone in social mobility. We are talking about the Both of them are going to open this September on an lives of individuals. We are talking about someone educational campus adjacent to the university of Bolton. moving away from their background and saying, “I am Also, in one of the poorest areas of my constituency I going to create my life. I am going to do what I want to have a second brand new sixth-form college, and it is do with my life.” That occurring on a small scale and oversubscribed. The students who formerly went out of eventually being writ large across society is how social the borough now want to study in these brand new mobility works. It is about individuals choosing what colleges, but if it had not been for this Labour Government, they wish to do with their lives. I fully support the role we would not have had three brand new colleges, provided of this debate in drawing attention to what choices by the Learning and Skills Council. These colleges are individual students wish to make. now attracting students back to study mainstream subjects. Higher education is, therefore, an investment in one’s I have to hand some figures showing the effect of a own future. I accept that, as I suspect hon. Members Labour Government for my students. In the academic from all parts of the House would. I hope that they year 1997-98, in the most affluent of our parliamentary understand the economic ramifications of it. I shall Bolton constituencies, Bolton, West, 2,220 students enrolled draw further attention to myself by saying that I suspect in UK higher education institutes. By 2008-09, that that I am one of the few Members of this House who is figure had gone up to 2,685. In the Bolton, North-East paying off their student loan and putting the Department constituency, the figures are 1,945, up to 2,260. In my of Resources to the trouble of calculating the payment constituency, which is the least affluent of the three to come out of my monthly pay cheque— Bolton constituencies, the figure in 1997-98 was only 1,560, but by 2008-09 it had increased significantly, to Kevin Brennan: Would you get the discount? 2,155, thanks to the policies of this Government. However, now that these three new colleges are in place—two Chloe Smith: Irrespective of whatever I may or may sixth-form colleges and one community college—I am not be contributing myself, I welcome Lord Browne’s expecting more of my students, including some from review of higher education funding and student finance. among the poorest estates in my constituency, to begin I particularly welcome its balance and the way in which to access higher and further education. its terms of reference allow an exploration of the balance I warn my constituents tonight that if we see another of contribution among taxpayers, students, graduates Conservative Government, we will see another deterioration and employers. Some important points of intergenerational not only in secondary education, but in further and fairness are contained in that review, and I wish to higher education. That is the choice my constituents discuss that briefly before posing three questions. will face on 6 May—or whenever the general election This generation is the one that will pick up the bill for is held. this Government’s debt crisis, the one that will have to work harder to obtain higher qualifications in order to 9.28 pm have the privilege of doing so and, sadly, for reasons Chloe Smith (Norwich, North) (Con): I think that I that are outside the remit of this debate, the one that is, may have the pleasure of being the last Back-Bench in many cases, leaving school with worse qualifications speaker in this debate. More than anything, I want to in the sense of being able to read, write and get out into look forward, rather than backwards. I may be one of the workplace. Many students I meet during the course the newer and younger Members of this House, but that of my constituency duties testify to that, as do many means that I have a rather different perspective from businesses, which are seeking to employ them positively some other Members. but are looking for the things that will help them to I do not know how old previous speakers were under do that. the last Conservative Government, but new students This generation is also the one that will have to work now—whom we should be thinking about, and who longer and harder to pay off that debt crisis. I understand might be listening to this debate or might read the that we will all now individually be paying £23,500 to record of it tomorrow—were five under the last get rid of that debt, and that collectively the amount of Conservative Government. It does no honour to them interest we are paying on our debt is more than the at all to say that they have not the brains to look at the dedicated schools grant. In addition, inequality has choices facing them now, and in the next three years, widened over the past decade, as I believe the National and the next 10 and 20 years, and throughout their Equality Panel report confirms. This year’s 18-year-olds economic lives. It is essential that we look forward, not are the first to have experienced their entire education back. If we do that, we will all realise what choices we under only a Labour Government, starting from that have to consider, and students will do that as well. point of five years old, to which I have referred. Given Let me start by saying that anybody who has the all that, perhaps the Ministers would like to join me in academic ability and ambition to go to university should an exercise of arithmetic, although they failed to do have the opportunity to do so, regardless of how wealthy that earlier. We know what the choice is facing those their parents are. In my view, a person’s time at university young people—incidentally, I should mention that they is the beginning of their independence, and it is all the are also first-time voters—as do they. This Government more important that that independence occurs financially, have failed that generation and its parents. as well as socially and emotionally. Students at the I wish to focus on just three ways in which this point of moving away to university—I note that many Government are confused. I shall focus on this year’s students in my constituency are being encouraged to sharp increase in the number of applications, on the stay at home, but we might get on to that separate topic reduction in the number of undergraduate places and later—begin to plan their lives independently of their on my concerns about a couple of other matters dealt family background. That is an incredibly important with in the funding letter that went to institutions last 829 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 830

[Chloe Smith] education. The payment should be for teaching by qualified, experienced, researching academics who December. First, there will be 6,000 fewer university work together with their undergraduates and their places in September, so why are the Government not postgraduates to make our higher education institutions considering ways to allow more students to go to university? internationally proud places to study in. I want to see My second question relates to the teaching allocation. I whether the Minister can continue to assert in his understand that the letter says that the allocation decreases summing up that Government plans will have no impact by 1.6 per cent. in real terms. Why do the Government on those laudable aims. not agree that teaching quality and the student experience The final, rather more specialist, aspect of my speech must not suffer in this round? My third question is relates, as I mentioned before, to historic buildings. My rather more of a specialist one, and it relates to historic understanding is that some universities and colleges will buildings. I would be grateful for some information be experiencing a particular impact from the noble from the Government Front-Bench team on why the Lord’s cuts because of their historical estates. I understand Government are not sticking by a pledge across the that some higher education institutions will have suffered Departments to promote access to the built and historic the withdrawal of the premium for historic buildings environment. I shall come on to that shortly. because of that letter. Not only will that undermine the Institutions such as Norwich university college of the ability to provide an environment for learning, but it arts, which despite sitting in the constituency of the will damage our national heritage more broadly. We all right hon. Member for Norwich, South (Mr. Clarke), value the aims and ideals of education, and we can all who is sadly not in his place, serves my constituents and understand that point, if it is true. I look forward to a wider regional and national area too, are suffering a some clarification, as I can see looks of puzzlement on reduction in resources at a time when demand is extremely the Ministers’ faces. high. I can quantify that for hon. Members by saying I want to draw out a point of confusion in the that there has been an increase of 140 per cent. in the Government. The Department for Culture, Media and number of applications to it this year. However, it has Sport’s mission statement—mission statements are been limited to an intake of 500 first-year students wonderful things—states: although it has more than 1,000 applications from students of good ability, attainment and ambition seeking “We work to support and promote the widest access to excellence in culture—in the arts, in museums and galleries, in architecture to take its courses. I am not talking just about courses and in the built and the historic environment, and libraries.” that could be said not to matter—although I challenge anybody in the House to define what such courses “Access” is a key word there. It runs through the entire might be—but about courses that are strongly linked to debate and through the themes of fairness that we have areas of emerging economic strength, regionally and been speaking about all evening. As today’s motion nationally. notes, an enormous contribution is made to our economy and to our civic life by universities. We all want the As any Member will know, we are talking about not widest range of access to our economic, civic, educational just units of growth but individual people—18-year- and heritage assets because that is fair and progressive. olds—whose hopes are being dashed. What is dashing them? It is not the economic situation alone but the lack Having said that, I do not expect the Chancellor to of freedom given to higher education institutions to speak to the First Secretary, or for him to speak to the innovate and do what they do best in teaching students. Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, but if There are ways to create extra places, as demonstrated some parts of the Government are interested in cultural by my hon. Friend the Member for Havant (Mr. Willetts). and historical sites of importance while another part of I simply do not think the Government have considered the Government is cutting funding to educational the economic and human impact of allowing this reduction institutions on the same grounds, surely we are all in a to pass. Anyone who has the academic ability and pickle. I do not know why the Government are not ambition, as I have said, should have the opportunity to helping us in this matter by acting in a joined-up way. go to university, and I cannot think how the Minister I would like them to answer all three of the questions can reconcile his agreement with that statement with that I have posed. such a policy this year. The teaching allocation within the higher education 9.39 pm settlement decreases by 1.6 per cent. in real terms this year, as per the letter written by the noble Lord Mandelson Mr. John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) in December. Teaching quality and the student experience (Con): This has been an important debate, because all must not suffer. We need more tutor attention for our futures are built on how well we educate the next students, not less, so we are able to compete internationally generation. It was begun splendidly by my hon. Friend in higher education. I think that the Minister for Higher the Member for Havant (Mr. Willetts) and we have Education and Intellectual Property agrees with that. heard the enthusiasm for higher education that permeates He has said: this House and crosses parties. “Teaching is protected because this government recognises As Disraeli said: that a higher quality student experience with excellent teaching “Upon the education of the people of this country the fate of and research is vital”. this country depends.” Will he now explain how the teaching budget cuts of This is also an important debate because our country 1.6 per cent. in real terms protect that teaching? faces real choices. The choice is between a Government If we are to achieve any consensus on the fees review who promised so much yet have delivered so little, and a in a way that is progressive, fair, sustainable and supportive new Conservative Government determined to deliver of social mobility, the bargain must be that people pay real opportunity and to help everyone to do their best. for higher education but only for good quality higher As youth unemployment reaches record highs and the 831 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 832 number of people not in education, employment or As though that were not bad enough, the improvement work nudges the 1 million mark, we should not let this rate for working-class participation has actually declined. Government get away for a second with their claim—and In the previous decade, participation by working-class they have repeated it tonight with extraordinary temerity— students grew at a faster rate, according to the Government’s that 50 per cent. of all young people would go to own figures—[Interruption.] The Minister makes an university. intervention from a sedentary position with a degree of That is exactly what Tony Blair promised the Labour complacency that I think inappropriate, given the subject conference 10 years ago. It is also what the Labour that we are debating. However, he will know that the party manifesto promised in 2001, with the claim that it latest statistics from the Higher Education Statistics would be achieved by the end of a decade. This Government Agency show that the number of undergraduates from encouraged all to aspire to the academic path and by lower socioeconomic groups is falling. that yardstick—their yardstick—they have failed. They In all our key competitors, vocational education and have failed to meet their target for participation, failed training provide an alternative route to higher-level to widen access to higher education, and failed to skills, as my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight expand opportunity. (Mr. Turner) said. Here, however, the number of people It is clear for all to see. There has been a sharp increase taking level 3—that is, technician-level—apprenticeships in applications, with a cumulative effect that was identified has fallen. At the beginning of the decade, 84,600 people by the hon. Member for Bristol, West (Stephen Williams). started an advanced-level apprenticeship, but last year So applications for HE next year are likely to go up, but that number was 81,400. in response the Government are planning cuts that are likely to lead to a reduction of 6,000 places. Mr. Lammy indicated dissent. The loss of those places will disappoint thousands of Mr. Hayes: The Minister shakes his head once again, young people. After spinning the virtues of academic but the figures are here for him to consider, when he achievement for so long, the Government are pulling up wishes to do so. Let us just compare our figures with the ladder of opportunity. those for France and Germany. In both those countries, more than 500,000 people start the equivalent of a Christopher Fraser: On that point, does my hon. level 3 apprenticeship every year. Friend agree that what the Minister said to me earlier was an insult to the 158,000 students who were refused John Ruskin was right: a place at university last year? In response to my “Education is the leading of human souls to what is best, and intervention, the Minister said they should return to making the best of them.” sixth-form college. Does that not show a complete lack Too often people, especially young people, do not get of understanding of the problem, and of understanding the advice and guidance that they need to turn their and sympathy for the problems that students face? ambitions into reality. In two thirds of schools in England, careers advice is given by staff without any formal Mr. Hayes: I think very highly of the Minister, and I qualifications, and a recent study found that only 31 per admire his long journey from Tottenham to this place. cent. of young people feel that they are getting adequate However, I thought that he was disappointing— information about going to university. That is why we understandably, the response that he received in this so desperately need a dedicated, impartial, all-age careers House was one of surprise, nay shock; and disappointing service with a presence in every school and college in in the message that he broadcast to all the young people this country and a presence on the high street too. coping with disappointment themselves as a result of If we are to help more people to access higher education, the Government’s failure to live up to their pledge. The we have to move away from the Government’s narrow Government are pulling up the ladder of opportunity, view that the only form of study that counts is full-time and that is not a happy position for this Minister, or degree courses taken at 18. According to a recent report others, to be in. written for the Government, The facts behind the Government’s failure speak for “the UK is not doing enough to provide a more or less complete themselves. Even though the figures have been recalibrated online educational experience to students who, for a variety of and recalculated, by last year the Government had reasons cannot enjoy a conventional campus based learning achieved just 43 per cent. participation in HE. The experience.” House will remember all the promises of 50 per cent. I believe that institutions must be given more flexibility participation, but the real rate is only 43 per cent., and to deliver greater opportunity in practice, and that participation by young women masks the failure to means that, as a nation, we cannot afford to fall behind allow more young men to participate. other countries in the provision of e-learning and other Participation among men stands at only 38 per cent.—just forms of distance learning. We need to look again at 1 per cent. higher than a decade ago. That is all the part-time study, flexible learning, credit-based learning difference that the Government have made, despite all and modular learning. their rhetoric and spin. Under a consistent measure, the It is extraordinary that institutions are not encouraged proportion of entrants overall has hardly increased by the Government to learn from the Open university, over the decade. And even though the Government have which has led the way in developing innovative ways to spent more than £2 billion a year on programmes to study online. Many new universities, first as polytechnics widen participation—and we heard the Minister wax and since, have developed strong links with local industry lyrical about them again earlier—the participation rate over many decades. They have pioneered sandwich courses by working-class students has hardly improved since and part-time day release courses in which students can 1995. As my hon. Friend the Member for Reading, East combine work and study.But the Government’s expectation (Mr. Wilson) memorably put it, so much for so little. that universities should all be alike has often undermined 833 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 834

[Mr. Hayes] Whatever Ministers’ motives, they have done for Britain what Philip Larkin said our parents do to us all. Strangely, those links. [Interruption.] The Minister is chuntering they have let down the parents as much as their children. again, but he must know that sandwich courses have All those ambitions frustrated by a cut in the number of declined, according to Universities UK and CBI research. university places—more than a quarter of a million will He knows, too, that the number of students participating miss out this year. For that reason alone, it is time to part-time has declined too. change. Lord Mandelson talks about a two-year degree course. It is time to dare to dream again of a change for the We already have a two-year degree course: it is called a better: a better Government that will create 100,000 new foundation degree, often developed in collaboration apprenticeships and pre-apprenticeship places; a better with FE. My hon. Friend the Member for Havant made Government that will provide 50,000 more FE college it clear that alongside HNDs and other traditional places a year; and a better Government that will fund vocational educational routes, we value foundation degrees. 10,000 extra student places and so make people’s dreams They make possible flexible study and are a route to a come true. There is a chance to change and a chance full degree. But the danger is that under the Government’s to hope for a better Government—a Conservative plans, in future many more students will be denied the Government. chance to take up foundation degrees, as universities claw back these places from colleges. That is what the 9.50 pm Association of Colleges warns and we are hearing from colleges up and down the country that their provision The Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships of HE in further education, with all the advantages and Consumer Affairs (Kevin Brennan): By putting that it offers in terms of widening participation, is now third poet in, the hon. Member for South Holland and jeopardised. The Deepings (Mr. Hayes) took more time than he was allocated, Mr. Speaker, but he is a literate man and we Rob Marris: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? are always delighted when he does that. I congratulate hon. Members on an excellent debate, Mr. Hayes: I will not, because I want to make progress. despite the knockabout at the end there from the hon. I do apologise. There is limited time. Gentleman. We have had some great Back-Bench When I meet students up and down the country, I am contributions, including from my hon. Friend the Member struck by just how many work part time, even though for Luton, North (Kelvin Hopkins), who expounded they study for a full-time degree course. The fact is that higher education policy on behalf of himself. The hon. many now need to combine study with work, even if Member for Isle of Wight (Mr. Turner) made a fine they are registered as full-time students. Condensing contribution, and on the Labour side there was an studies into two years may be a barrier to some potential extremely thoughtful and thought-provoking speech students. Instead of prescribing to universities how to from my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and deliver new forms of provision, we should be giving Leamington (Mr. Plaskitt), who described himself as a institutions the freedom that they need to develop recovering academic, unless I misheard him. He rightly programmes that best meet the needs of their students pointed out that the success rate for students getting and their communities. We should be encouraging greater into universities has increased in the past 10 years from collaboration between FE and HE. We should be more 64 to 68 per cent. One would not think so from listening imaginative and innovative about what is taught, where to Opposition Members, but that is a fact. He rightly it is taught and how it is taught. That is the best way of paid tribute to Ioan Morgan from his constituency, who widening participation, not dictating to universities from is a native of Tredegar in the county I come from in the centre in the micro-managed, target-driven way so south Wales. He made an interesting proposal on education favoured by this Administration. trust funds that I think bears further examination. I know, of course, that these Ministers are not despicable, We heard from the hon. Member for Reading, East and I know they are distressed because they are distrusted (Mr. Wilson) and my hon. Friend the Member for and now disdained. I know too that they are disappointed, Bolton, South-East (Dr. Iddon). My hon. Friend spoke disabled by their own incapacity to put right what they with great authority, as ever, about science and science have done wrong, because they carry the bitter legacy of teaching and rightly pointed out the investment that their Labour predecessors’ failure. Ministers, however this Government have made in further education by in well meaning, will not concede; they do not prepare the past 10 years. Hon. Members did not mention, but because they cannot pretend to be capable of making could have, that in 1997 not a single penny was spent by the change that we need. Instead we have the obfuscation, the Conservative party on capital in our further education exaggeration and self-congratulation of the amendment system. they have tabled tonight. It is all about the past, not the We also heard from the hon. Member for Norwich, future. Spin, not substance, is given undeserved attention North (Chloe Smith), who mentioned the historic buildings by that misleading amendment to our modest motion. proposal, which I understand comes from the funding Only a fresh start can bring the change we need: change council. We were not looking perplexed; that is the case. and hope, change for the better and hope for the future. Interestingly, she pointed out to the House that she is As Ezra Pound said: still paying off her student loan, so reminding us of exactly the kind of person who would benefit from the “A man’s hope measures his civilization.” discount that the hon. Member for Havant (Mr. Willetts) I know that Ministers are civilised people. They are marked proposes. It would be Members of Parliament and not by malevolence but by mistakes and misadventure. people of that ilk who would get the 10 per cent. They are drowning, not waving. discount that he wants to offer. I noted that the hon. 835 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 836

Lady did not declare an interest, but that is, perhaps, In any case, the hon. Gentleman’s assumption that he understandable: she knows that the hon. Gentleman will get big money from his scheme flies in the face of has no intention of introducing the policy, because he the evidence from Australia, which tried double the knows that it is completely unworkable. discount rate that he is offering. The take-up was tiny, The Conservative Front-Bench contribution perfectly so nowhere near the amount of money that he thinks embodied the values and playbook of the Cameroonian will be raised, in his carefully considered wild guesstimate, Conservative party—a series of assertions, positionings could be raised. More Mickey Mouse maths. They like and manoeuvrings designed to suggest a feint to the left giving it out, but they do not like it up ’em. The money on the political field, while all the time the ball is being that the hon. Gentleman hopes to get back from his shoved up the jumper, hidden and moved carefully to scheme, although it is much smaller than he thinks, is the right wing, where we know it really is. Any good money that is already owed to the banks, so in reality, coach would tell you, Mr. Speaker, that when such there is no new money in the proposal at all. It is tactics are used you should look at the big picture. disguised borrowing. What is more, it is expensive, Despite all the hullabaloo, distraction and nods by the bureaucratic and convoluted borrowing for one cohort Tories in this debate to more being done on FE and HE, of students, as my hon. Friend the Member for they plan to cut public spending quickly and deeply this Wolverhampton, South-West pointed out. year if they get anywhere near to power. In the meantime, If the hon. Gentleman wants to commit to borrowing however, they want to pretend that they would like to to fund more student places, he should do it openly and do more. in the most efficient manner for the public purse, but he To sustain the illusion, the hon. Member for Havant will not do so, because he wants a buy now, pay later, is peddling a bogus policy based on Mickey Mouse something-for-nothing policy, the true cost of which he maths. On his student loan refund scheme, he thinks does not have to admit to the country and the House— that if he repeats often enough in the House, with Mickey Mouse maths. No wonder the president of the sufficient swivel-eyed conviction, that two and two make NUS in Australia has described this kind of discount five, eventually people will start believe that two and scheme as a con, a good deal for the wealthiest and a two make five. I have to point out, as Labour Members poor deal for everyone else. She has a very good point. have already pointed out several times, that his refund That is not the end of it, because the Opposition scheme simply does not add up. He does not have to motion calls for more training places—another apparent listen to us—he can listen to people outside, because he move to the left, but actually just more Mickey Mouse might think that I am a little biased. He would be right, maths, because the Opposition’s policy is to abolish because I am, but there are other voices he could listen Train to Gain. They say that they have several uses for to. Perhaps he should listen to million+, which my hon. the money, but as far as I can see, they have spent it Friend the Member for Bolton, South-East mentioned, several times over. However, I will give them the benefit and which says some interesting things about the proposal. of the doubt, despite their Mickey Mouse maths. One It points out that the immediate likely impact would be thing that would be certain if they abolished Train to an increase in the uptake of student loans by people Gain—one thing on which we can depend as sure as the who do not need to take out a student loan, as my hon. sun will rise tomorrow, and as sure as the hon. Member Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr. Hayes) will (Rob Marris) rightly pointed out. quote poetry in his speech—is that there would be fewer An early discount repayment scheme would incentivise training places. students who can afford to pay to take out a loan. If We have had 1.4 million people training through tuition fees were £10,000, by taking out a loan with a Train to Gain. Just this month I shared a stage with the 10 per cent. discount for early repayment, they could millionth learner to get a qualification through Train to pay back £9,000, rather than £10,000. On that, million+ Gain, and he had his boss, the managing director of says: William Blythe Ltd of Accrington, with him— “There is a real risk that such a scheme would change student behaviour with wealthier students…paying less towards the cost Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con) claimed to move of their higher education than students are not…well off”. the closure (Standing Order No. 36). So much for the progressive policies of the Opposition— Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put. their proposal is a giveaway for those who least need it. Question agreed to. Where have we heard that before? Question put accordingly (Standing Order No. 31(2), At least the Opposition are consistent. Whether it is That the original words stand part of the Question. inheritance tax or student finance, they make sure that The House proceeded to a Division. their minted mates are looked after first. It is worse than that, because the amount that the proposal would Mr. Speaker: I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate raise in revenue would fall pitifully short of what would the delay in the No Lobby. be required to fund the 10,000 student places that they bogusly say they are going to fund—more Mickey Mouse The House having divided: Ayes 156, Noes 321. maths. The policy of the hon. Member for Havant costs Division No. 111] [10 pm him £30 million before he has funded a single extra place, because £300 million is already repaid by graduates AYES every year without a discount operating. If they receive Afriyie, Adam Bacon, Mr. Richard his 10 per cent. discount—and he cannot prevent them Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Baldry, Tony from doing so—it will cost him a cool £30 million in Amess, Mr. David Bellingham, Mr. Henry exchange for precisely nothing. More Mickey Mouse Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Benyon, Mr. Richard maths. Atkinson, Mr. Peter Beresford, Sir Paul 837 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 838

Blunt, Mr. Crispin Leigh, Mr. Edward Wilson, Mr. Rob Young, rh Sir George Bone, Mr. Peter Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver Winterton, Ann Tellers for the Ayes: Bottomley, Peter Lewis, Dr. Julian Winterton, Sir Nicholas James Duddridge and Brady, Mr. Graham Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Yeo, Mr. Tim Jeremy Wright Brazier, Mr. Julian Lidington, Mr. David Brokenshire, James Lilley, rh Mr. Peter Browning, Angela Loughton, Tim NOES Burns, Mr. Simon Luff, Peter Ainger, Nick Crausby, Mr. David Burrowes, Mr. David Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Creagh, Mary Burt, Alistair Maclean, rh David Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Cruddas, Jon Butterfill, Sir John Main, Anne Allen, Mr. Graham Cryer, Mrs. Ann Campbell, Mr. Gregory Malins, Mr. Humfrey Anderson, Mr. David Cummings, John Carswell, Mr. Douglas Maude, rh Mr. Francis Anderson, Janet Cunningham, Mr. Jim Cash, Mr. William May, rh Mrs. Theresa Armstrong, rh Hilary Cunningham, Tony Clappison, Mr. James McCrea, Dr. William Atkins, Charlotte David, Mr. Wayne Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey McIntosh, Miss Anne Austin, John Davidson, Mr. Ian Cormack, Sir Patrick McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Bailey, Mr. Adrian Davies, Mr. Dai Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Miller, Mrs. Maria Bain, Mr. William Davies, Mr. Quentin Crabb, Mr. Stephen Milton, Anne Baird, Vera Dean, Mrs. Janet Curry, rh Mr. David Mundell, David Balls, rh Ed Denham, rh Mr. John Davies, David T. C. Murrison, Dr. Andrew Banks, Gordon Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit (Monmouth) Neill, Robert Barlow, Ms Celia Dismore, Mr. Andrew Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Newmark, Mr. Brooks Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Dobbin, Jim Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen O’Brien, Mr. Stephen Battle, rh John Dobson, rh Frank Dorries, Nadine Paice, Mr. James Bayley, Hugh Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. Dunne, Mr. Philip Penning, Mike Beckett, rh Margaret Doran, Mr. Frank Ellwood, Mr. Tobias Penrose, John Begg, Miss Anne Dowd, Jim Evans, Mr. Nigel Pickles, Mr. Eric Beith, rh Sir Alan Drew, Mr. David Evennett, Mr. David Prisk, Mr. Mark Bell, Sir Stuart Durkan, Mark Fabricant, Michael Pritchard, Mark Benn, rh Hilary Eagle, Angela Fallon, Mr. Michael Randall, Mr. John Benton, Mr. Joe Eagle, Maria Field, Mr. Mark Redwood, rh Mr. John Berry, Roger Efford, Clive Francois, Mr. Mark Robathan, Mr. Andrew Betts, Mr. Clive Ellman, Mrs. Louise Fraser, Christopher Robertson, Hugh Blears, rh Hazel Engel, Natascha Gale, Mr. Roger Rosindell, Andrew Blizzard, Mr. Bob Ennis, Jeff Garnier, Mr. Edward Scott, Mr. Lee Blunkett, rh Mr. David Etherington, Bill Gauke, Mr. David Selous, Andrew Borrow, Mr. David S. Farrelly, Paul Gibb, Mr. Nick Shepherd, Mr. Richard Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Field, rh Mr. Frank Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl Simmonds, Mark Brennan, Kevin Flello, Mr. Robert Goodman, Mr. Paul Simpson, Mr. Keith Brown, Lyn Flint, rh Caroline Goodwill, Mr. Robert Smith, Chloe Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Flynn, Paul Greening, Justine Soames, Mr. Nicholas Brown, Mr. Russell Follett, Barbara Greenway, Mr. John Spelman, Mrs. Caroline Browne, rh Des Foster, Mr. Don Grieve, Mr. Dominic Spicer, Sir Michael Browne, Mr. Jeremy Foster, Mr. Michael Hammond, Mr. Philip Spink, Bob Bruce, rh Malcolm (Worcester) Hands, Mr. Greg Spring, Mr. Richard Bryant, Chris Foster, Michael Jabez Harper, Mr. Mark Stanley, rh Sir John Buck, Ms Karen (Hastings and Rye) Hayes, Mr. John Streeter, Mr. Gary Burden, Richard Gapes, Mike Heald, Mr. Oliver Stuart, Mr. Graham Burgon, Colin Gardiner, Barry Heathcoat-Amory, rh Swayne, Mr. Desmond Burnham, rh Andy George, rh Mr. Bruce Mr. David Swire, Mr. Hugo Butler, Ms Dawn Gerrard, Mr. Neil Hendry, Charles Syms, Mr. Robert Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Gilroy, Linda Herbert, Nick Tapsell, Sir Peter Cable, Dr. Vincent Godsiff, Mr. Roger Hermon, Lady Taylor, Mr. Ian Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Goodman, Helen Hoban, Mr. Mark Taylor, Dr. Richard Cairns, David Griffith, Nia Hollobone, Mr. Philip Timpson, Mr. Edward Campbell, Mr. Alan Griffiths, Nigel Horam, Mr. John Tredinnick, David Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Grogan, Mr. John Howarth, Mr. Gerald Turner, Mr. Andrew Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Hall, Mr. Mike Howell, John Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Caton, Mr. Martin Hall, Patrick Hurd, Mr. Nick Vaizey, Mr. Edward Challen, Colin Hamilton, Mr. David Jack, rh Mr. Michael Vara, Mr. Shailesh Chapman, Ben Hamilton, Mr. Fabian Jackson, Mr. Stewart Viggers, Sir Peter Clark, Ms Katy Hanson, rh Mr. David Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Villiers, Mrs. Theresa Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Harman, rh Ms Harriet Jones, Mr. David Walker, Mr. Charles Clarke,rhMr.Tom Harris, Mr. Tom Kawczynski, Daniel Wallace, Mr. Ben Clelland, Mr. David Harvey, Nick Key, Robert Walter, Mr. Robert Coaker, Mr. Vernon Havard, Mr. Dai Kirkbride, Miss Julie Waterson, Mr. Nigel Coffey, Ann Healey, rh John Knight, rh Mr. Greg Watkinson, Angela Cohen, Harry Hemming, John Laing, Mrs. Eleanor Whittingdale, Mr. John Connarty, Michael Hendrick, Mr. Mark Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann Cooper, Rosie Hepburn, Mr. Stephen Lancaster, Mr. Mark Wiggin, Bill Cooper, rh Yvette Hesford, Stephen Lansley, Mr. Andrew Willetts, Mr. David Corbyn, Jeremy Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia 839 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 840

Heyes, David McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Smith, Ms Angela C. Truswell, Mr. Paul Hill, rh Keith McFall, rh John (Sheffield, Hillsborough) Turner, Dr. Desmond Hillier, Meg McGovern, Mr. Jim Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon) Twigg, Derek Hodge, rh Margaret McIsaac, Shona Smith, Geraldine Ussher, Kitty Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon McKechin, Ann Smith, rh Jacqui Walley, Joan Hoey, Kate McKenna, Rosemary Smith, Sir Robert Waltho, Lynda Holmes, Paul McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Snelgrove, Anne Ward, Claire Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Meacher, rh Mr. Michael Soulsby, Sir Peter Watson, Mr. Tom Hope, Phil Meale, Mr. Alan Southworth, Helen Watts, Mr. Dave Hopkins, Kelvin Merron, Gillian Spellar, rh Mr. John Whitehead, Dr. Alan Horwood, Martin Michael, rh Alun Spink, Bob Wicks, rh Malcolm Howarth, David Miliband, rh Edward Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Williams, rh Mr. Alan Howarth, rh Mr. George Miller, Andrew Stoate, Dr. Howard Williams, Mrs. Betty Howells, rh Dr. Kim Mitchell, Mr. Austin Strang, rh Dr. Gavin Williams, Mark Humble, Mrs. Joan Moffatt, Laura Straw, rh Mr. Jack Williams, Mr. Roger Iddon, Dr. Brian Mole, Chris Stringer, Graham Williams, Stephen Illsley, Mr. Eric Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Stuart, Ms Gisela Wills, rh Mr. Michael Irranca-Davies, Huw Morden, Jessica Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Wilson, Phil James, Mrs. Siân C. Morgan, Julie Tami, Mark Winnick, Mr. David Jenkins, Mr. Brian Mountford, Kali Taylor, Ms Dari Woolas, Mr. Phil Johnson, rh Alan Mulholland, Greg Thomas, Mr. Gareth Wright, David Johnson, Ms Diana R. Mullin, Mr. Chris Thornberry, Emily Wright, Mr. Iain Jones, Helen Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Thurso, John Wright, Dr. Tony Jones, Mr. Kevan Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Wyatt, Derek Jones, Lynne Naysmith, Dr. Doug Tipping, Paddy Tellers for the Noes: Jones, Mr. Martyn Norris, Dan Todd, Mr. Mark Mr. George Mudie and Jowell, rh Tessa O’Hara, Mr. Edward Trickett, Jon Mr. John Heppell Joyce, Mr. Eric Öpik, Lembit Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Osborne, Sandra Keeble, Ms Sally Owen, Albert Question accordingly negatived. Keeley, Barbara Palmer, Dr. Nick Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 31(2)), Keen, Alan Pearson, Ian That the proposed words be there added. Keen, Ann Plaskitt, Mr. James Kelly, rh Ruth Pope, Mr. Greg The House divided: Ayes 287, Noes 182. Kemp, Mr. Fraser Pound, Stephen Division No. 112] [10.16 pm Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Prentice, Bridget Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Prentice, Mr. Gordon AYES Kidney, Mr. David Prescott, rh Mr. John Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Primarolo, rh Dawn Ainger, Nick Buck, Ms Karen Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Burden, Richard Knight, rh Jim Prosser, Gwyn Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Burgon, Colin Kramer, Susan Pugh, Dr. John Allen, Mr. Graham Burnham, rh Andy Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Purchase, Mr. Ken Anderson, Mr. David Butler, Ms Dawn Lamb, Norman Purnell, rh James Lammy, rh Mr. David Anderson, Janet Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Rammell, Bill Atkins, Charlotte Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Laxton, Mr. Bob Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Lazarowicz, Mark Austin, John Cairns, David Reed, Mr. Andy Bailey, Mr. Adrian Campbell, Mr. Alan Leech, Mr. John Reed, Mr. Jamie Lepper, David Bain, Mr. William Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Reid, Mr. Alan Levitt, Tom Baird, Vera Caton, Mr. Martin Robertson, John Lewis, Mr. Ivan Balls, rh Ed Challen, Colin Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Linton, Martin Banks, Gordon Chapman, Ben Rooney, Mr. Terry Lloyd, Tony Barlow, Ms Celia Clark, Ms Katy Love, Mr. Andrew Rowen, Paul Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Lucas, Ian Roy, Mr. Frank Battle, rh John Clarke, rh Mr. Tom Mackinlay, Andrew Roy, Lindsay Bayley, Hugh Clelland, Mr. David MacShane, rh Mr. Denis Ruane, Chris Beckett, rh Margaret Coaker, Mr. Vernon Mactaggart, Fiona Ruddock, Joan Begg, Miss Anne Coffey, Ann Mahmood, Mr. Khalid Russell, Bob Bell, Sir Stuart Cohen, Harry Malik, Mr. Shahid Russell, Christine Benn, rh Hilary Connarty, Michael Mallaber, Judy Salter, Martin Benton, Mr. Joe Cooper, Rosie Mann, John Sanders, Mr. Adrian Berry, Roger Cooper, rh Yvette Marris, Rob Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad Betts, Mr. Clive Corbyn, Jeremy Marsden, Mr. Gordon Seabeck, Alison Blears, rh Hazel Crausby, Mr. David Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert Sharma, Mr. Virendra Blizzard, Mr. Bob Creagh, Mary Martlew, Mr. Eric Shaw, Jonathan Borrow, Mr. David S. Cruddas, Jon McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Sheerman, Mr. Barry Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Cryer, Mrs. Ann McCabe, Steve Sheridan, Jim Brennan, Kevin Cummings, John McCafferty, Chris Simon, Mr. Siôn Brown, Lyn Cunningham, Mr. Jim McCarthy, Kerry Simpson, Alan Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Cunningham, Tony McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Skinner, Mr. Dennis Brown, Mr. Russell David, Mr. Wayne McDonagh, Siobhain Slaughter, Mr. Andy Browne, rh Des Davidson, Mr. Ian McDonnell, John Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Bryant, Chris Davies, Mr. Quentin 841 Higher Education16 MARCH 2010 Higher Education 842

Dean, Mrs. Janet Jowell, rh Tessa Pope, Mr. Greg Spellar, rh Mr. John Denham, rh Mr. John Joyce, Mr. Eric Pound, Stephen Spink, Bob Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Prentice, Bridget Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Dismore, Mr. Andrew Keeble, Ms Sally Prentice, Mr. Gordon Stoate, Dr. Howard Dobbin, Jim Keeley, Barbara Prescott, rh Mr. John Strang, rh Dr. Gavin Dobson, rh Frank Keen, Alan Primarolo, rh Dawn Straw, rh Mr. Jack Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. Keen, Ann Prosser, Gwyn Stuart, Ms Gisela Doran, Mr. Frank Kelly, rh Ruth Purchase, Mr. Ken Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Dowd, Jim Kemp, Mr. Fraser Purnell, rh James Tami, Mark Drew, Mr. David Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Rammell, Bill Taylor, Ms Dari Durkan, Mark Kidney, Mr. David Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Thomas, Mr. Gareth Eagle, Angela Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Reed, Mr. Andy Thornberry, Emily Eagle, Maria Knight, rh Jim Reed, Mr. Jamie Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Efford, Clive Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Robertson, John Tipping, Paddy Ellman, Mrs. Louise Lammy, rh Mr. David Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Todd, Mr. Mark Engel, Natascha Laxton, Mr. Bob Rooney, Mr. Terry Trickett, Jon Ennis, Jeff Lazarowicz, Mark Roy, Mr. Frank Truswell, Mr. Paul Etherington, Bill Lepper, David Roy, Lindsay Turner, Dr. Desmond Farrelly, Paul Levitt, Tom Ruane, Chris Twigg, Derek Flello, Mr. Robert Lewis, Mr. Ivan Ruddock, Joan Flint, rh Caroline Linton, Martin Russell, Christine Ussher, Kitty Flynn, Paul Lloyd, Tony Salter, Martin Walley, Joan Follett, Barbara Love, Mr. Andrew Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad Waltho, Lynda Foster, Mr. Michael Lucas, Ian Seabeck, Alison Ward, Claire (Worcester) Mackinlay, Andrew Sharma, Mr. Virendra Watson, Mr. Tom Foster, Michael Jabez MacShane, rh Mr. Denis Shaw, Jonathan Watts, Mr. Dave (Hastings and Rye) Mactaggart, Fiona Sheerman, Mr. Barry Whitehead, Dr. Alan Francis, Dr. Hywel Mahmood, Mr. Khalid Sheridan, Jim Wicks, rh Malcolm Gapes, Mike Malik, Mr. Shahid Simon, Mr. Siôn Williams, rh Mr. Alan Gardiner, Barry Mallaber, Judy Simpson, Alan Williams, Mrs. Betty George, rh Mr. Bruce Mann, John Skinner, Mr. Dennis Wills, rh Mr. Michael Gerrard, Mr. Neil Marris, Rob Slaughter, Mr. Andy Wilson, Phil Gilroy, Linda Marsden, Mr. Gordon Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Winnick, Mr. David Goodman, Helen Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert Smith, Ms Angela C. Woolas, Mr. Phil Griffith, Nia Martlew, Mr. Eric (Sheffield, Hillsborough) Wright, David Grogan, Mr. John McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Smith, rh Angela E. Wright, Mr. Iain Hall, Mr. Mike McCabe, Steve (Basildon) Wright, Dr. Tony Hall, Patrick McCafferty, Chris Smith, Geraldine Wyatt, Derek Hamilton, Mr. David McCarthy, Kerry Smith, rh Jacqui Hamilton, Mr. Fabian McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Snelgrove, Anne Tellers for the Ayes: Hanson, rh Mr. David McDonagh, Siobhain Soulsby, Sir Peter Mr. George Mudie and Harman, rh Ms Harriet McDonnell, John Southworth, Helen Mr. John Heppell Harris, Mr. Tom McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Havard, Mr. Dai McFall, rh John NOES Healey, rh John McIsaac, Shona Hendrick, Mr. Mark McKechin, Ann Afriyie, Adam Carswell, Mr. Douglas Hepburn, Mr. Stephen McKenna, Rosemary Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Cash, Mr. William Hesford, Stephen McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Amess, Mr. David Clappison, Mr. James Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia Meacher, rh Mr. Michael Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey Heyes, David Meale, Mr. Alan Atkinson, Mr. Peter Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Hill, rh Keith Merron, Gillian Bacon, Mr. Richard Crabb, Mr. Stephen Hillier, Meg Michael, rh Alun Baldry, Tony Curry, rh Mr. David Hodge, rh Margaret Miliband, rh Edward Barker, Gregory Davies, Mr. Dai Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon Miller, Andrew Beith, rh Sir Alan Davies, David T. C. Hoey, Kate Mitchell, Mr. Austin Bellingham, Mr. Henry (Monmouth) Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Moffatt, Laura Benyon, Mr. Richard Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Hope, Phil Mole, Chris Beresford, Sir Paul Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen Hopkins, Kelvin Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Blunt, Mr. Crispin Dorries, Nadine Howarth, rh Mr. George Morden, Jessica Bone, Mr. Peter Dunne, Mr. Philip Howells, rh Dr. Kim Morgan, Julie Bottomley, Peter Ellwood, Mr. Tobias Humble, Mrs. Joan Mountford, Kali Brady, Mr. Graham Evans, Mr. Nigel Iddon, Dr. Brian Mullin, Mr. Chris Brazier, Mr. Julian Evennett, Mr. David Illsley, Mr. Eric Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Brokenshire, James Fabricant, Michael Irranca-Davies, Huw Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Browning, Angela Fallon, Mr. Michael James, Mrs. Siân C. Naysmith, Dr. Doug Bruce, rh Malcolm Field, Mr. Mark Jenkins, Mr. Brian Norris, Dan Burns, Mr. Simon Foster, Mr. Don Johnson, rh Alan O’Hara, Mr. Edward Burrowes, Mr. David Francois, Mr. Mark Johnson, Ms Diana R. Osborne, Sandra Burt, Alistair Fraser, Christopher Jones, Helen Owen, Albert Butterfill, Sir John Gale, Mr. Roger Jones, Mr. Kevan Palmer, Dr. Nick Cable, Dr. Vincent Garnier, Mr. Edward Jones, Lynne Pearson, Ian Campbell, Mr. Gregory Gauke, Mr. David Jones, Mr. Martyn Plaskitt, Mr. James Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Gibb, Mr. Nick 843 Higher Education 16 MARCH 2010 844

Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl Penning, Mike Resolved, Goodman, Mr. Paul Penrose, John That this House welcomes the contribution made to the economy Goodwill, Mr. Robert Pickles, Mr. Eric and civic life by universities; notes the sharp increase in university Greening, Justine Prisk, Mr. Mark applications for 2010-11; commends the Government for its record Greenway, Mr. John Pritchard, Mark levels of investment in higher education, an increase of over Grieve, Mr. Dominic Pugh, Dr. John 25 per cent. in real terms since 1997, which has supported more Hammond, Mr. Philip Randall, Mr. John students participating in higher education than ever before; notes Hands, Mr. Greg Redwood, rh Mr. John a 24 per cent. increase in the number of students participating in Harper, Mr. Mark Reid, Mr. Alan higher education since 1997, more young entrants to full-time Harvey, Nick Robathan, Mr. Andrew first degrees in England who are from state schools, lower socio- Hayes, Mr. John Robertson, Hugh economic groups, and low participation backgrounds, and recent Heald, Mr. Oliver Rosindell, Andrew studies which have shown that over 50 per cent. of young people Hemming, John Rowen, Paul aspire to go on to higher education; recognises the Government’s Hendry, Charles Russell, Bob commitment to expanding the range of pathways to higher education, Herbert, Nick Sanders, Mr. Adrian including through apprenticeships, and to expanding the opportunities Hermon, Lady Scott, Mr. Lee to participate in higher education, including through the development Hoban, Mr. Mark Selous, Andrew of foundation degrees, which have benefited 100,000 students; Hollobone, Mr. Philip Shepherd, Mr. Richard further notes that the Government is providing students with high Holmes, Paul Simmonds, Mark levels of student support to enable them to access higher education; Horam, Mr. John Simpson, Mr. Keith and welcomes the proposals in the papers Quality, Choice and Aspiration, published in October 2009, and Higher Ambitions, Horwood, Martin Smith, Chloe published in November 2009, to provide prospective students Howarth, David Smith, Sir Robert with better information, advice and guidance to enable them to Howarth, Mr. Gerald Soames, Mr. Nicholas fulfil their full potential. Howell, John Spelman, Mrs. Caroline Hurd, Mr. Nick Spicer, Sir Michael Jack, rh Mr. Michael Spink, Bob Business without Debate Jackson, Mr. Stewart Spring, Mr. Richard Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Stanley, rh Sir John Kawczynski, Daniel Streeter, Mr. Gary DELEGATED LEGISLATION Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Stuart, Mr. Graham Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Key, Robert Swayne, Mr. Desmond Order No. 118(6)), Kirkbride, Miss Julie Swire, Mr. Hugo Knight, rh Mr. Greg Syms, Mr. Robert CHILDREN AND YOUNG PERSONS Kramer, Susan Tapsell, Sir Peter That the draft Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006 Laing, Mrs. Eleanor Taylor, Mr. Ian (Regulated Activity, Devolution and Miscellaneous Provisions) Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Taylor, Dr. Richard Order 2010, which was laid before this House on 27 January, be Lamb, Norman Thurso, John approved.—(Steve McCabe.) Lancaster, Mr. Mark Timpson, Mr. Edward The Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the Question Lansley, Mr. Andrew Tredinnick, David being challenged, the Division was deferred until Wednesday Leech, Mr. John Turner, Mr. Andrew Leigh, Mr. Edward 17 March (Standing Order No. 41A). Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Vaizey, Mr. Edward Lewis, Dr. Julian Order No. 118(6)), Vara, Mr. Shailesh Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Viggers, Sir Peter Lidington, Mr. David REHABILITATION OF OFFENDERS Villiers, Mrs. Theresa Lilley, rh Mr. Peter That the draft Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Walker, Mr. Charles Loughton, Tim (Amendment) (England and Wales) Order 2010, which was laid Luff, Peter Wallace, Mr. Ben before this House on 2 February, be approved.—(Steve McCabe.) Walter, Mr. Robert Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew Question agreed to. Maclean, rh David Waterson, Mr. Nigel Main, Anne Watkinson, Angela Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Malins, Mr. Humfrey Whittingdale, Mr. John Order No. 118(6)), Maude, rh Mr. Francis Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann May, rh Mrs. Theresa Wiggin, Bill CHILDREN AND YOUNG PERSONS McGrady, Mr. Eddie Willetts, Mr. David That the draft Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006 McIntosh, Miss Anne Williams, Mark (Controlled Activity and Miscellaneous Provisions) Regulations McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Williams, Mr. Roger 2010, which were laid before this House on 2 February, be Miller, Mrs. Maria Williams, Stephen approved.—(Steve McCabe.) Milton, Anne Wilson, Mr. Rob The Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the Question Mulholland, Greg Winterton, Ann being challenged, the Division was deferred until Wednesday Mundell, David Winterton, Sir Nicholas 17 March (Standing Order No. 41A). Murrison, Dr. Andrew Yeo, Mr. Tim Neill, Robert Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Young, rh Sir George Newmark, Mr. Brooks Order No. 118(6)), O’Brien, Mr. Stephen Tellers for the Noes: Öpik, Lembit Jeremy Wright and COMMONS Paice, Mr. James James Duddridge That the draft Commons Councils (Standard Constitution) (England) Regulations 2010, which were laid before this House on 9 February, be approved.—(Steve McCabe.) Question accordingly agreed to. Question agreed to. The Speaker declared the main Question, as amended, Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing to be agreed to (Standing Order No. 31(2)). Order No. 118(6)), 845 Business without Debate16 MARCH 2010 Business without Debate 846

REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE,NORTHERN Declares that one million people will develop dementia in the IRELAND next ten years; that one in three people over the age of 65 will die from dementia but that it can happen at any age; and that while That the draft Representation of the People (Timing of the drugs may alleviate some symptoms, there is currently no cure; Canvass) (Northern Ireland) Order 2010, which was laid before this House on 3 February, be approved.—(Steve McCabe.) Further declares that the Government must fund research to develop better treatments and a cure, and to prevent an NHS Question agreed to. crisis; and that for every £283 invested in cancer research, dementia Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing research gets only £1. Order No. 118(6)), The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons That the draft European Parliamentary Elections (Northern call upon the Government immediately to increase funding for Ireland) (Amendment) Regulations 2010, which were laid before dementia research to help the lives of those affected today, and to this House on 24 February, be approved.—(Steve McCabe.) reduce the threat in future to the NHS. The Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the Question And the Petitioners remain, etc. being challenged, the Division was deferred until Wednesday [P000750] 17 March (Standing Order No. 41A). Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Free School Meals (Stoke-on-Trent) Order No. 118(6)), 10.34 pm NORTHERN IRELAND Mr. Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent, South) (Lab): I That the draft Electoral Law Act (Northern Ireland) 1962 wish to present a petition on behalf of the people of (Amendment) Order 2010, which was laid before this House on Stoke-on-Trent, South who have told me time and again 24 February, be approved.—(Steve McCabe.) that they believe that all primary age children should be The Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the Question entitled to a free school meal. I have met on many being challenged, the Division was deferred until Wednesday occasions school cooks and dinner staff who have told 17 March (Standing Order No. 41A). me of the profound need that many children have for a Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing substantial, nourishing free school meal. The people of Order No. 118(6)), Stoke-on-Trent, South have also expressed their concerns that the local Conservative council has not even made HOUSING an effort to work with partners on this issue in the pilot That the draft Housing and Regeneration Act 2008 (Registration scheme. of Local Authorities) Order 2010, which was laid before this The petition states: House on 20 January, be approved.—(Steve McCabe.) The Petition of Rachael Wilson and others, Question agreed to. Declares that there is a desire among the people of the city of Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Stoke-on-Trent for Free School Meal provision in the area’s Order No. 118(6)), schools; further declares that several hundred postcards in support of Free School Meal provision, signed by parents, grandparents That the draft Housing and Regeneration Act 2008 (Consequential and carers of children studying in Stoke-on-Trent Primary Schools, Provisions) Order 2010, which was laid before this House on have been sent to the Member for Stoke-on-Trent. 3 February, be approved.—(Steve McCabe.) The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons Question agreed to. call upon the Government to take steps to ensure that Free School Meals can be provided in the city of Stoke-on-Trent. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE And the Petitioners remain, etc. Ordered, [P000769] That, at the sitting on Monday 22 March, notwithstanding the Badman Report (Gosport) provisions of Standing Order No. 16 (Proceedings under an Act or on European Union documents), the Speaker shall put the Questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on the Motions in 10.35 pm the name of Secretary Jack Straw and Mr Secretary Woodward relating to Northern Ireland not later than four hours after the Sir Peter Viggers (Gosport) (Con): I am grateful to commencement of proceedings on the first Motion; proceedings have the opportunity to present a public petition signed may continue, though opposed, after the moment of interruption; by a considerable number of constituents in the Gosport and Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply.— constituency who are supportive of home education (Steve McCabe.) and concerned about the recommendations in the Badman report. The petition was collected by my constituent PETITIONS Tracy Weaver and her husband Dr. John Weaver, who, together with their children Abigail, Rebecca, Charlotte Dementia Research and Isabel, came to a constituency surgery, where I had a chance to discuss home education with them, the children being educated at home. 10.32 pm The petition reads: Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North) (Lab): I wish to present The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons a petition calling on the Government to increase funding urges the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families for dementia research. It has been signed by 542 members either not to bring forward, or to withdraw, proposed legislative of Unison and others. measures providing for tighter registration and monitoring of children educated at home in the absence of a thorough independent The petition states: inquiry into the condition and future of elective home education The Petition of members of UNISON and others, in England; but instead to take the steps necessary to ensure that 847 Business without Debate16 MARCH 2010 Business without Debate 848 the existing Elective Home Education Guidelines for Local Authorities Following is the full text of the petition: are properly implemented, learning from current best practice, in [The Petition of Doug Beard, residents of Shipwrights all local authorities in England. Drive, Highfield Avenue, Castle Point and others, And the Petitioners remain, etc. Declares that they object to the link footpath between Following is the full text of the petition: Shipwrights Drive and Highfield Avenue, Hadleigh; that [The Petition of persons resident in the Gosport this footpath is a focus for vandalism to adjacent residents’ parliamentary constituency, properties and close residents, resulting in hundreds of Declares that they are concerned about the pounds of damage to roof tiles, walls, security lights, and recommendations of the Badman Report, which suggests regular attendance of police officers; further, that this closer monitoring of home educators, including a compulsory footpath does not provide sufficiently significant convenient annual registration scheme and right of access to people’s access for local residents to outweigh the considerable homes for local authority officials; further declares that loss of quality of life caused 24/7 to residents; that for the Petitioners believe the recommendations are based on these and many other valid reasons residents of Shipwrights a review that was extremely rushed, failed to give due Drive and Highfield Avenue, Hadleigh call for the complete consideration to the evidence, failed to ensure that the closure of the link footpath since this is, on balance, in the data it collected were sufficiently robust, and failed to public interest. take proper account of the existing legislative framework. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urge the Government to press Castle Point Commons urges the Secretary of State for Children, Borough Council, the Highways Authority and all Councillors, Schools and Families either not to bring forward, or to to ensure the immediate closure of the link footpath withdraw, proposed legislative measures providing for between Shipwrights Drive and Highfield Avenue, Hadleigh. tighter registration and monitoring of children educated And the Petitioners remain, etc.] at home in the absence of a thorough independent inquiry [P000767] into the condition and future of elective home education in England; but instead to take the steps necessary to Disrepair (Felstead Road, Castle Point) ensure that the existing Elective Home Education Guidelines for Local Authorities are properly implemented, learning 10.37 pm from current best practice, in all local authorities in England. Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): I have a second And the Petitioners remain, etc.] petition, which addresses the important issue of the condition of our paths and roads, which are the subject [P000650] of the Adjournment debate that will begin in a moment. Residents are deeply concerned about Felstead road Mr. Speaker: We come now to the Adjournment. and have been asking councillors to take action to repair it for years. Recent ice and water damage have Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind) rose— exacerbated the problem. The key concern is for people’s safety, and especially that of elderly people. I warmly Mr. Speaker: I do beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon: congratulate all the caring residents who signed the the day would not be complete without petitions from petition, which states: Dr. Spink. The Petition of Mr. Kent Taylor, Mr. Lee Gardiner, residents of Castle Point and others, Footpath Closure (Hadleigh, Castle Point) Declares that the pavements and Felstead Road between the A13 and Bowers Road, Benfleet are in a state of disrepair; that in their current state, these present a real and immediate danger to 10.36 pm local residents, especially the elderly and those with limited mobility, and have already been the cause of several accidents; further, that Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): Thank you very much, poorly maintained pavements disadvantage pedestrians, are unsightly Mr. Speaker, how gracious of you. and adversely affect the local street scene; that for these and other valid reasons, residents call for the immediate repair and continued People should be able to live in peace and quiet in maintenance of the road and pavements since this is in the public their homes. So-called antisocial behaviour is often interest. simple thuggery, and it should not be tolerated. The The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons local council should now take the issue of street design urges the Government to press the Borough Council, Essex in the Hadleigh area seriously. It should protect long- County Council, the Highways Authority and all Councillors, to suffering residents and not just brush them aside, as it ensure the immediate repair and continued maintenance of Felstead has for years. We should fight bad behaviour, not excuse Road, Benfleet. it; we should challenge, not hug hoodies. I congratulate And the Petitioners remain, etc. each of the excellent residents who signed the petition. [P000768] 849 16 MARCH 2010 Potholes and Road Maintenance 850

Potholes and Road Maintenance group CTC’s website, fillthathole.org.uk. During the same period in 2010, 3,508 hazardous potholes were Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House logged. do now adjourn.—(Steve McCabe.) St. Albans is a beautiful constituency, but it is car and traffic-ridden, and at the best of times it has significant congestion problems. Many of the council’s future traffic 10.39 pm management initiatives, intended to combat the congestion Anne Main (St. Albans) (Con): I would like to bring in the town, depend on encouraging more people to to the Minister’s attention the blight of potholes and abandon their cars and to cycle, walk and, indeed, use neglected roads, which is a national problem, yet one motorbikes. Cycling is a greener and, potentially, an that often falls down the political agenda, perhaps efficient, healthy way in which to travel, but given our because it is not seen as an emotive issue. As Paul current road conditions, that is often not the case for Watters, head of roads policy at the AA, recently explained St Albans cyclists. Without investment in our roads, to The Guardian: cyclists will have a raw deal and experience unacceptable “If it’s a choice between a school or a nursing home and the hazards. Many of them are children, who may not be roads, the votes are in people, not lumps of tarmac…But of able to cope with an unexpected pothole as they are course the teachers who go to these schools and the nurses who cycling to school or in the area where they live. work in these nursing homes all use the roads.” Motorcycle News is championing the cause of Mr. Watters has a point, and the problem is widespread. motorcyclists who are being equally endangered by Estimates suggest that there are at least 1.6 million cavernous potholes. It is asking readers to submit pothole potholes in England and Wales, and that the cost of pictures and stories as part of its campaign to address repairing each of them is about £70. The Asphalt the dangers that potholes pose to bikers. As it has Industry Alliance estimates that the average shortfall in observed in its campaign, bikers are voters too. The the road structural budget per local authority is Government really ought to take notice of the pothole £6 million, and that in England only 57 per cent. of the mania across the country that is affecting so many required budget for road maintenance is received. The people in so many age groups. Local Government Association estimates that there is Yes, you heard it here first: this election really will be an £8 billion shortfall in highway maintenance costs, fought on the pothole. We normally joke about there built up across the country for up to 20 years. being no Liberal Democrats in the Chamber, but in Local authorities are responsible for nine out of St. Albans they are usually staring down a pothole, so 10 miles of road—the Highways Agency only looks perhaps that is where they are at the moment. Our local after motorways and major trunk roads—which is why paper, the St Albans and Harpenden Review, has been the lack of funding for local authorities is such an issue. running a campaign called ROAR, which stands for The Asphalt Industry Alliance estimates that, owing to “Repair our awful roads”. As I have said, the issue is chronic underfunding, it would take up to 13 years to not really funny. It is causing a dreadful situation in clear the maintenance backlog on England’s roads, at a St. Albans. cost of £58.2 million per local authority. The problem is I must declare an interest: my husband is an ardent that the potential cost is adding up. Mr. Watters of the motorcyclist. I know from listening to him that there is AA also said great and genuine concern about motorcyclists hitting potholes and the possibility of tragedy, particularly on “Our roads are such an underrated asset. We’ve got to preserve the asset and put more money into road maintenance. Less poorly lit or unlit roads. I commend Motorcycle News money is a false economy. If we let the roads collapse it will cost on leading the campaign to protect motorcyclists. Two up to nine times more than if we repair them before they expire.” wheels, whether motorised or pedal driven, are suffering far more than four wheels on these treacherous roads. Many people have said that this Government failed to fix the roof when the sun was shining, and it appears Why do we have such cavernous holes in our roads? that they may have failed to fix the roads as well. The cold snap in January 2010 exacerbated an already Potholes affect all road users, from cyclists to bus passengers, dire situation. As a result of two particularly harsh cold and the problem is particularly acute at night on smaller, snaps in two years, the problem has now reached a unlit roads. Drivers are often unaware of the existence tipping point for our roads. Cold weather produces of a pothole until the damage has been done, and the potholes when water penetrates tiny cracks in the road. damage is significant. When the water freezes, it expands, widening the cracks. When it melts, these cracks are increased by vibrations The costs of the problem do not only involve the and pressure from traffic flows—and we certainly have roads. Potholes are also a major factor in axle and traffic flow in St. Albans. The cycle of freezing and suspension failure, which is estimated to cost British thawing water has widened cracks in road surfaces, motorists £2.8 billion a year. Last year, an additional creating potholes. Once a pothole is created, it quickly £35 million was paid in compensation. Potholes are an degrades, becoming a massive and dangerous cavern if extremely costly problem which affects the whole country. not repaired swiftly. Cyclists and motorcyclists suffer particularly as a Geoff French, vice-president of the Institution of result of potholes, as they are more likely to feel the Civil Engineers, correctly forecast this problem. He said effects of uneven road surfaces, and two wheels mean in January that the thaw would bring little respite, with that their weight is spread more thinly. Potholes can drivers having to cope with increasing numbers of potholes. literally be a life or death issue for them. Cycling groups He warned that the continuous cycle of freezing and have backed the call for the problem to be addressed. thawing, particularly on roads where long-term maintenance Their reports show that it is increasing: in January 2009, had been neglected, would break up road surfaces. That 699 allegedly hazardous potholes were reported to cycling is what is happening. This is not just about potholes; the 851 Potholes and Road Maintenance16 MARCH 2010 Potholes and Road Maintenance 852 degradation of the road surface, which causes a rutting tax, but it seems deeply unfair that the poor old motorist effect, is also particularly bad in some areas, such as and taxpayer who picks up the bill is taxed yet again, if mine. it can be shown that the utilities may well have been Professor Stephen Glaister, director of the RAC responsible for part of the problem. Foundation, told the media: In Hertfordshire, the problem with potholes is particularly “Potholes are not just about inconvenience. They damage acute. Last financial year, 21,000 pothole work orders vehicles and cause accidents. It is wrong to think doing nothing is were raised in the county and the average cost of a the easy option. In previous years councils have spent almost as pothole repair was about £80. Hertfordshire’s roads are much money dealing with compensation claims as fixing the exceptionally busy, with HGV flows on its A roads problem.” being more than twice the national average. That pattern As I have mentioned, in 2008-09 a staggering £35 million is replicated for all types of vehicle flows, and the in compensation was paid out to road users. Will the picture on our minor roads is the same. The roads in Minister pledge to invest in maintenance now, rather Hertfordshire are subject to twice the average level of than waste money on compensation claims in the future wear and tear, so it does not take a mathematician to that should be invested in the chronically underfunded work out that the number of potholes will be twice as road networks? I want to give the Minister quite a while high as the average or even far more than that. The to respond to the issues I am raising. county has some of the most congested roads in the Apart from the weather, one of the key factors leading country and a very high level of car ownership. It has to potholes is the use of deep trenching practices by the most motorway miles and, thus, the most traffic utility companies. That is when trenches are cut into coming off those roads. As a result, our roads are under roads—often after they have just been re-tarmacked, intense pressure. bizarrely—to renew or install utilities and other services. Hertfordshire’s roads, like those in other areas of the Over the last three years, the AIA has counted about country, have suffered significant damage as a result of 2 million deep trenches dug into our road surfaces, so two exceptional winters in a row. Since the start of this is a real issue. Deep trenches have a significant 2010, nearly 18,000 potholes have been reported in impact on road structure, producing a 30 per cent. Hertfordshire, either by Hertfordshire’s inspectors or by reduction in road life and contributing to the number of members of the public. In one week in February, potholes, as the making good leaves small cracks that Hertfordshire Highways received 2,000 pothole repair are particularly vulnerable to damage in weather such requests—these have to be about significant potholes, as we have had over the last two winters. When a trench not just blemishes on a road surface. The problem has is cut into a road surface and filled in afterwards, the been even worse this year than in recent times. In gaps around the edges of the hole are where the problems January and February 2010, Hertfordshire Highways occur. In areas such as St. Albans, where we have to dealt with 13,000 potholes whereas the figure for the take so much building and development to meet our same period in the previous year was 6,600—the 2008 housing-targeted needs, we regularly have our roads figure was 6,500. We have, thus, had double the amount dug up by the utility companies. of potholes to try to repair and, in order to try to catch While utility companies do the work and reap the up, the county council has been working its socks off. It benefits in terms of charges for services, it is local is getting a lot of criticism from political opponents, but councils that have to maintain the highways, and taxpayers it has had 50 teams out filling or patching our worst who ultimately pay when repairs develop into potholes roads. and ridged surfaces a few years down the line. Many of Last year’s cold snap in February resulted in repairs us have been beating up the gas and electricity companies costing about £1.1 million over a six-week period, and for the massive profits they have been making, and it dealing with the accelerated deterioration of the roads seems to me that when they are installing some of these was estimated to cost £16 million. Hertfordshire claimed services, they ought to be thinking of giving a little back nearly £6 million of emergency Government funding to to their communities. Industry bodies have argued that, cover the period, and we were hopeful that we would considering the long-term damage done to roads and receive it given the high level of usage that our roads the resultant potholes, utility companies could help get, but we received absolutely nothing. Hertfordshire with maintenance. This might foster a culture of more Highways expects that this winter’s cold weather will considerate works on roads, and help to maintain good have caused much more damage than that of February roads. Will the Minister give us his thoughts on this 2009. The damage has not been quantified but it is matter, and on whether anything can be done to tackle estimated to be likely to be well over £20 million and the problems caused by deep trenching? We all know perhaps even higher. The Local Government Association that at present there is no money to spare in the has asked the Government to support our local authority, Government’s coffers, so it should be an imperative that but as yet we have received nothing. That was the case we explore such other means of trying to get adequate for the previous disaster, so let us hope that this time the funding for our roads, particularly if some of the damage Government see fit to give us some funding in recognition is being caused, or stored up for the future, by the utility of our desperate situation in Hertfordshire. companies. These are big problems indeed, but they have been If the utility companies are, through necessary works, made more difficult to tackle as the Government have, compromising the integrity and life of our roads, they unfortunately, seen fit to give Hertfordshire the lowest should pay into a dedicated road repair fund to contribute increase in financial settlement of any county. So we to any ongoing maintenance that results from their have double the national average road usage and one of working. On the principle that the polluter should pay, the highest numbers of potholes, yet we are getting the this approach would at least be reasonable, and it would lowest increase in financial settlement at a time when we levy what, in effect, would be a pothole premium. I note are already chronically underfunded and the county that some authorities are thinking of having a pothole council is having to absorb the extra costs of an ageing 853 Potholes and Road Maintenance16 MARCH 2010 Potholes and Road Maintenance 854

[Anne Main] maintenance of our road networks. She has raced through a number of disparate issues in her speech and if she population and rising school numbers. Something has feels that I do not respond to any of her points during got to give and, unfortunately, at this moment it is our the course of my speech, I am happy for her to write to roads. me and I shall respond in writing. Despite that situation, this year Hertfordshire Highways Roads are the heart of our transport system. They has, once again, through efficiency savings, put more are the universal service on which everyone, whether money into highways—it has managed to find an additional pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist or other vehicle user, £6.3 million for 2010-11—and still managed to keep the relies. They are the heart of our communities, too, and council tax rise to zero, but that cannot continue. the local highway authorities are responsible for more Hertfordshire Highways is good at what it does—the than 98 per cent. of the roads in this country. Motorways Audit Commission has given it a top rating—but it is and trunk roads carry a third of the nation’s traffic and attempting to make good the underinvestment in our half of its heavy goods traffic, often over great distances. roads over the past 20 years; this is not happening just Such journeys essentially bypass the towns and villages overnight. I know that I am saying that I want the along their way, and it is right that a national organisation, Government to recognise the low funding levels, but the Highways Agency, should run those major arteries. this has been a long and intractable problem. By contrast, local roads have a different function. They As we have seen, Hertfordshire’s roads are exceptionally are right by where we live and work, where we walk the busy, yet we receive precious little funding to tackle the dog or where we pass the time of day with our neighbours, resultant problems. People in St. Albans contribute a so it is important that the local authorities that are lot into the Chancellor’s coffers and they feel that responsible for them recognise the importance of keeping St. Albans and Hertfordshire are seen as a cash cow. Taxes them in good order. are being skimmed away from local people and allocated Local highways maintenance is a major business. In to other areas, and there is a refusal to give local people the financial year 2008-09, English local highways the services and infrastructure they need. At this late authorities spent a little over £5 billion on running and hour, the Minister surely will accept all these facts and repairing their networks, covering everything from major figures. I know that he or his Department has contacted bridge repairs to paying the electricity bill to keep the the county council to try to find out more about this street lights on. That money pays, too, for the salt to problem, and I am grateful to him for that. I hope that keep the roads clear and for the repairs to the potholes in the spirit in which this debate is being held, with the that the hon. Lady has been talking about this late recognition that this is a national problem, the Government evening. will, given that Hertfordshire is so badly affected, give a Central Government help in that process by providing little back of what we requested in previous years. funding. My Department provides capital support to This year Hertfordshire received the lowest rise in authorities as part of funding their local transport central Government grant of any county council in the plans. Over 10 years of local transport plan funding, country. We cannot keep up repairs on the roads when the Department for Transport has provided about £6.5 we do not have enough money to do that. The council is billion in capital spending support for English local struggling in a difficult financial climate to fix this highways authorities outside London. The real-terms year’s problem, yet the requests for additional funding increase in capital allocations to local authorities since and apparently specifically targeted emergency funding the introduction of the local transport plan settlement from the Government have been refused and we do not is 135 per cent. This year, local authorities outside know why. London have received £755 million for capital maintenance works in that way, and there has also been funding for The formula grant for Hertfordshire county council major maintenance schemes and projects under the is £175.965 million for 2010-11. If Hertfordshire received private finance initiative. only the average level of grant increase, that would provide an additional £3.7 million to help balance our Anne Main: Will the Minister address in particular books or, more importantly, smooth our roads. Will the the underfunding that has been prevalent, unfortunately, Minister investigate the matter and take the opportunity in my constituency and in Hertfordshire generally, given to explore the option of a dedicated pothole levy on the the fact that we have some of the heaviest traffic coming utility companies? Will he see whether anything can be through our county? I have the busiest non-motorway done to provide a fairer funding settlement for our road, the A414, in my constituency. We have significant area? When I talk about the pothole levy, I do not traffic that is not typical, yet we have below-average expect the cost to be passed on to the customer. I do not settlements. I appreciate that the Minister has given expect to see higher utility bills for people in St. Albans. funding to all those other areas, but will he address the Developers, when they come into our area, have to pay seemingly low settlements that we get in St. Albans? section 106 money in recognition of the impact that they have on the local area and I believe that utility Mr. Khan: The allocation of the funding is based on a companies should do the same. I ask the Minister to formula that takes account of the sort of factors to think sensibly about this and to see what can be done to which the hon. Lady refers. Clearly, when the Department provide a fairer funding settlement for our area to allow for Communities and Local Government and the DFT local people to tackle the problem. allocate funding in the next round from 2011 onwards, one of the things that the various working groups will be looking into is the perceived fairnesses and unfairnesses 10.56 pm towards different authorities. The hon. Lady said that The Minister of State, Department for Transport hers is a floor authority, so she will be concerned to (Mr. Sadiq Khan): I congratulate the hon. Member for make sure that it is not penalised in the next round of St. Albans (Anne Main) on securing this debate on the the spending review. 855 Potholes and Road Maintenance16 MARCH 2010 Potholes and Road Maintenance 856

Central Government also help by supporting the UK management plan set out how the authority intends to Roads Liaison Group, which has produced a range of manage the asset to keep it in a condition that will codes of practice on highways maintenance that are deliver that level of service. widely respected across the industry as representing good practice. The group has also produced a range of Anne Main: May I take the Minister’s comments as other research and reports, notably on the lessons to be read? I am sure that my parliamentary opponent from learned from the severe weather of February 2009, the Labour party will be interested to hear that he puts which has been much quoted in this House over the past all the blame for potholes in St. Albans on the failure of few months. my county council to manage the roads. I beg to differ I mention central Government’s activity in this about that: I said we can learn from best practice, but I connection, not to blow our own trumpet but to emphasise am sure the Minister is not really saying that we have that local roads are a local resource and that we are very potholes in the roads because of poor management—or much in a supporting role. When there are calls for is he? central Government to take a more directive role in local road maintenance—such as with the strategic Mr. Khan: All local highway authorities should plan stockpiling of winter salt—we have consistently said for different scenarios in the winter months. I have that it is a matter for local authorities. There is no mentioned the historic amounts that have been invested reason why local authorities should not collaborate, in local authorities around the country over the past when they see the advantage of doing so, to achieve 13 years, but the hon. Lady will be aware that some efficiency savings and other benefits. An example of parties advised us to make immediate cuts in this financial that can be found in the east midlands, where the year. We did not take that advice, and have continued to Midlands Highways Alliance expects to achieve savings invest record amounts this year as well. of £11 million through authorities working together. However, I hasten to add that, if we had taken the Anne Main: The Chamber is not exactly crowded advice to reduce the deficit even faster—by half over tonight, and I have asked specifically about the roads in the next four years—the result would be immediate cuts St. Albans. The east midlands is an interesting topic to local authorities around the country, including the generally, but I would appreciate it if the Minister could one that the hon. Lady represents. We have also been address the specific issues to do with my constituency advised to impose a zero increase in council tax. If we that I have raised, especially given that other hon. had taken that advice, any idea that there might be Members have chosen not to attend this debate to speak additional funds for local authorities would have been about their areas. laughable. The context for this debate is that the hon. Lady is Mr. Khan: I was giving the east midlands as an asking for central Government subsidy to help her local example of best practice. If the hon. Lady’s local authority authority with potholes. That does cause one to wonder were to follow that example, it could save money that whether she knows what she is talking about. could be used to fix the potholes. Not unreasonably, Liberal Democrats in her area are complaining that her Anne Main: I have suggested that the Minister consider local authority is not making those savings. imposing a pothole levy on the utilities companies, but he is choosing not to look at that. He is scoring party Anne Main: The Minister appears to consider that political points, even though road users, cyclists and the Liberal Democrats have a fair point, on the basis pedestrians are taking their lives in their hands on my that my local authority is not rated excellent or doing roads. I really feel that that is beneath him, and I hope what it should. That is bizarre, given that the Audit that he will try to answer my logical and reasonable Commission has found that my authority has managed questions about the funding formula that affects the money superbly. The problem is that it does not Hertfordshire and the potholes that affect my residents. have enough money to buy the tarmac it needs. The Is he prepared to think out of the box, and associate Minister has alluded to efficiency savings, but that is funding with the damage done by the utilities companies? not a valid comment as our authority makes such savings every year, and year on year. I am sure we would all like to learn best practice, but the Minister will Mr. Khan: Far be it from me to defend myself; I was appreciate that we need the money to begin with. trying to read the speech which dealt with that, but I think I was intervened on, I think, six times. I will try to Mr. Khan: The hon. Lady seems to believe that her return now to the speech and deal with some of the authority has nothing to learn from others, and other points that the hon. Lady made. people can make of that what they will. She has also One point that is worth touching on in the context of knocked back a potential saving of £11 million that perceived unfairness in relation to the funding that the could be used to improve the potholes in the area that Department gives us, is that the Department has she represents, potholes that she regards as so appalling. additionally provided private finance initiative funding The Government believe that if local authorities are of £3.96 billion, and PFI credits for highways maintenance to take proper care of their highway assets, they need to and street lighting schemes. Cyclists and motorcyclists plan. For some years, we have been working with the find those very useful. There are 25 sign projects with a UKRLG to encourage authorities to develop transport value of £993 million. In addition, there are 10 projects asset management plans. These are not just documents in procurement, six street lighting schemes and four that engineers write and then put on a shelf, as they highways maintenance projects with a combined value provide a clear statement of the assets held, their condition of £2.35 billion—examples of the investment that this and the level of service that the council wants them to Government give to local authorities, not just Hertfordshire deliver. Only in the light of these can the transport asset but others around the country. 857 Potholes and Road Maintenance16 MARCH 2010 Potholes and Road Maintenance 858

[Mr. Khan] other assets put together. That fact alone should help to concentrate councils’ collective minds on what resources One of the things that local highways engineers have they should devote to the public realm. One of the been telling us a lot over the past few months is that the points that the hon. Lady raised, quoting someone else, roads that have been worst affected by the winter weather was that sometimes politicians will choose to spend have been those that were not in optimal condition in moneys on schools and hospitals, not roads. But I the first place. Where a proper treatment has been put should make it clear that we do not want accountancy down, which is effective in keeping water out of the to drive the management of the highways assets; rather, road’s substructure, the damage is far less. it should be the other way round, with the accounting There is another lesson to learn from asset management figures simply falling out as a by-product of good asset planning. Clearly, those who assume that they are perfect management. will not learn the lessons; those who have the humility The hon. Lady made a point about the utility companies to learn the lessons might. That lesson is this: considering paying a pothole tax for the damage that they might do. the whole life of the asset, and planning over that She will be aware that potholes can develop for a horizon, delivers much better value for the taxpayer—and number of key reasons, including adverse weather, damage much better roads for the road user—than a purely to or poor maintenance of roads, higher volumes of reactive approach of repairing whatever happens to be traffic and heavier vehicles than anticipated, and poor worst. reinstatement after utility, highway authority or other Asset management planning will also help local authority works in the carriageway. In fact, the Government engineers to make the case to their authority treasurers originally consulted in November 2009 on a revised for the funding needed to deliver the service that the edition of the code used by the utility companies, which council wants it to deliver. For the first time, authorities is expected to be launched in April 2010 and focuses on will be able to put a value on their highways assets. That formalising many of the practices already being undertaken. will be an advantage to authorities such as Hertfordshire. In particular, it looks to strengthen the requirements for The Chartered Institute for Public Finance and edge treatment to ensure a better-performing joint. Accountancy plans to publish later this month rules Utilities pay fees to authorities to inspect their works that will set out how to value highways assets in the and ensure adherence to the required specification. authority’s accounts, which can in turn feed into the Inspections can be made at various stages of the works Government’s aim for whole of Government accounting. up to the completion of the guarantee period, which may be two years or three years. When authorities undertake that valuation, they will discover that their highways assets are far and away the 11.9 pm most valuable asset that they own—as the hon. Lady House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order acknowledged—generally valued at more than all their No. 9(7)). 181WH 16 MARCH 2010 Dementia Strategy 182WH

costs resulting from dementia, £129,269 is spent on Westminster Hall cancer research, £73,153 on heart disease research, £8,745 on stroke research and just £4,882 on dementia Tuesday 16 March 2010 research. I am sure that all that will be clear when it is on the record in Hansard, although it might not be clear now, [MR.GARY STREETER in the Chair] while I am blinding colleagues with figures. What the Alzheimer’s Research Trust is trying to demonstrate in Dementia Strategy its report is the lack of ambition evident so far in the Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting funding for dementia research. The report is saying not be now adjourned.—(Lyn Brown.) that less should be done elsewhere, but simply that the case for dementia research is compelling. Every dementia 9.30 am patient costs the economy £27,647 a year, which is more Mr. Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD): I am than the UK median salary of £24,700. By contrast, grateful for this opportunity to speak about the national cancer patients cost £5,999, stroke patients £4,770 and dementia strategy—an issue to which the House has heart disease patients £3,455. Delaying the onset of returned on many occasions during the past few months dementia by just five years would halve the number and in which I have taken an interest over a number of of deaths from the condition, saving 30,000 lives a year. years. It is now about 100 years since Alois Alzheimer That is a huge opportunity. The UK is undoubtedly first described the disease that bears his name at a playing a crucial role in finding a cure and leading the medical conference in Germany. There is still no cure, world in basic and clinical research, yet dementia research and our understanding of the basic biological processes is woefully underfunded: the Government invest only remains limited, although I will say something about 2 per cent. of their medical research budget in dementia, current research, which is beginning to peel back some spending many times more on other health conditions. of the uncertainty and lack of knowledge. The 2009 report on dementia by the Nuffield Council My interest in the issue does not come from personal on Bioethics stated that family experience. I have been blessed in having no “the major research funding bodies within the UK do not appear direct experience of family members suffering from this to have explicit policies according to which they allocate funds between different conditions, focusing rather on research excellence terrible disease. Rather, it comes from my contact with and the ‘importance’ of the topic… Given the social and economic families in my constituency who are struggling with the impact of dementia, we believe that a more explicit approach to consequences of dementia. In particular, I am grateful research priorities would be likely to lead to significant increases to have a Princess Royal Trust for Carers centre in my in research funding for dementia. If such an increase were not to constituency, at Sutton. The Sutton carers’ centre and be matched by research applications of the necessary high standard, the Alzheimer’s Society in my constituency have played then active steps should be taken to develop and promote research an important part in educating me about the issues and capacity in the relevant areas”. exposing me to their members who live day to day with The issue was recently recognised in the United States the disease. of America, which tends to take a fairly legislative I am a great believer in serendipity. It came as a approach to pushing issues forward. An Alzheimer’s surprise to me to learn yesterday that the Public Accounts Breakthrough Bill is currently before Congress. They Committee is to publish its findings today on the National have lovely names for Bills in the States; our Clerks Audit Office’s report on dementia services. As a member would not allow us to give a Bill a name of that sort. If of the Committee, I found our hearings in January the Bill is passed, it will allocate $2 billion to dementia interesting. I have a few questions from those hearings research. to ask the Minister today. Both the Public Accounts Despite that significant American commitment to Committee and the National Audit Office report areas dementia research, the UK must play its own role, given of progress on dementia but point to what the Chairman our international advantages in dementia and other of the Committee has described as a gulf between scientific research. The UK is second only to the US in promise and delivery so far. dementia research impact. British scientists are responsible Earlier this year, I was asked to write the foreword to for 7 per cent. of the top cited dementia papers globally, a report published by Oxford university and the Alzheimer’s and important innovations have come from UK research, Research Trust called “Dementia 2010”. The report such as the discovery of most of the genes associated revealed a number of facts that have added to our with dementia so far, work leading to the development understanding of the scale and scope of the problem of the only licensed treatment of Alzheimer’s and the and the challenge that we face. neuropathology of several rarer dementias. Furthermore, Some 820,000 people in the UK are living with dementia. the national health service gives the UK a competitive The previous estimate, which is still widely quoted, was edge in trialling new dementia treatments. 700,000. Dementia costs the UK economy £23 billion a Recently, after the publication of “Dementia 2010”, I year; the previous estimate was £17 billion. That is twice was invited by the Royal Society of Chemistry to chair the cost of cancer, which is £12 billion a year; three one of its public lectures, by Professor Chris Dobson, times the cost of heart disease, at £8 billion a year; and who is master of St. John’s college and from the department four times the cost of stroke, at £5 billion a year. The of chemistry. He lectured on some of the extraordinary combined Government and charitable investment in work done by him and his team of young graduates on dementia research—£50 million—is 12 times lower than the disease mechanism behind dementia and the role spending on cancer research, which is £590 million a of proteins in the body. It is a potential key not only year. Heart disease receives £169 million a year and to unlocking our understanding of the disease, but to stroke research £23 million. For every £1 million in care identifying treatments for dementia that arrest its 183WH Dementia Strategy16 MARCH 2010 Dementia Strategy 184WH

[Mr. Paul Burstow] report that formed part of the strategy. When the Government published the action plan to reduce the use progression and might even cure it. The team also of anti-psychotics by two thirds, the report found that established a link to other neurological conditions in 150,000 people with dementia were being inappropriately our understanding of dementia. That research is being prescribed and that as many as 1,800 deaths a year done in this country. We need more such research and could result, thus suggesting that the prescription of the ambition to fund not just a cure, but the discoveries such drugs needs to be borne down upon and reduced. necessary to build bridges to it. The report set out a strategy to do that and stated that it The Minister’s taskforce on dementia research, which could save about £55 million. is intended to drive the issue forward, held its first The Public Accounts Committee took evidence from meeting on 24 February. Will he tell us a bit about that David Behan, the official responsible for social care in meeting? There is clear and demonstrable public support the Department of Health, who has been widely credited for investment and research into dementia. One survey for his work in this area. I asked him how soon the found that 66 per cent. of people think that the Government action plan’s strategy to reduce such prescribing by two should spend more money on dementia research, and thirds might be realised. I left the exchange with the only 2 per cent. thought that funding should be cut. impression that the intention was that it would be done within the next two years. On re-reading the transcript, Mr. William Cash (Stone) (Con): The hon. Gentleman I found that it may take two years before the baseline is is making an important contribution; it is fascinating to established. The reduction will presumably take a further hear him develop his argument. He has not yet addressed two years after that. It would be helpful if the Minister the question of demographics and the increase in the clarified whether we will see the two-thirds reduction in number of elderly and aging people, which must have a anti-psychotic prescribing in two years, or whether it bearing on the future. Does he agree that in our desperate will take two years for a baseline to be produced and a need to solve the tragic problem of dementia, we must further two years for the reduction. find the means to relate it to the future and the increasing At the heart of my concerns is the lack of priority. number of people who will inevitably be afflicted as The National Audit Office put its finger on that, as did they grow older? the Public Accounts Committee report. In December Mr. Burstow: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right 2007, after the first PAC examination of this matter, the to identify the demographics, which present a problem Department of Health published its operating framework not only in the increasing number of people who present for 2008-09. Among the local priorities it stated: with dementia, but in our society’s ability to provide the “The Department will shortly be publishing details of the necessary informal care. It is estimated that, over the clinical and economic case for investing in services for early identification and intervention in dementia, which PCTs will next 20 years, this country will need an additional want to consider when developing local services.” 15 million carers to cope with the increased burden of diseases such as dementia. That is why the research That was flagged up as a local priority, not a national figure that 800,000 people suffer from the disease is so requirement or even a national priority. relevant. Late last year, the NHS operating framework for 2010-11 was published. It did not identify dementia as a Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): I congratulate the national priority. Only in some weak words under the hon. Gentleman on highlighting this subject and on the title “Areas to support local prioritisation” is dementia compelling case that he is making. Caring for dementia mentioned. It states that improved efficiencies and outcomes sufferers is a demanding and stressful job. Does he are to be gained by agree that were people not caring for their loved ones so “the early and accurate diagnosis of dementia”. compassionately, the burden on the state would be much higher and his figures would be different? Does he In addition, the vital signs indicators to be used by also agree that there is a stigma around mental health? primary care trusts do not mention dementia. The Rethink is trying to tackle that problem with the “Time Department of Health has said that vital signs cannot to Change” campaign. That is part of the context that be reopened to include anything else until the next causes dementia research and caring to be pushed into spending review. However, given the stated priority that the background. We should address it head on. we have heard from the permanent secretary and Ministers time and again, surely the vital signs should be updated Mr. Burstow: The hon. Gentleman makes an important to include a measure on dementia, or separate guidance point, which I am sure the Minister and others will have should be issued to ensure that dementia is a priority heard. He is right to identify the cost of care. A substantial nationally and locally. part of the £23 billion economic cost of dementia is the There is a deficit of awareness of the strategy and its conservative estimate of £12 billion for informal care. implementation on the ground. Health and social care On research, will the Minister say what were the staff participating in the NAO research could not identify outcomes of the first meeting of the ministerial taskforce leaders on dementia and felt excluded from the and when the minutes will be posted on the website? It implementation process. It is reported that care homes would be good to be able to study them. What timeline have received no communication about the strategy and do the Government envisage for increasing the funding have seen no sector leadership. Only two strategic health available for dementia research? When will we hear an authorities were actively working with care homes when announcement? Could we hear one in the Budget next the NAO did its fieldwork. The research revealed that week? many front-line staff—in particular, general nurses—were I have taken an interest in anti-psychotic drugs for unaware of the strategy. A lot must be done to close that many years. I will not labour this area because of the gulf of understanding among professionals, let alone good work done by Professor Sube Banerjee in his the public. 185WH Dementia Strategy16 MARCH 2010 Dementia Strategy 186WH

Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): I congratulate my hon. suspect that it will be paid to the Public Accounts Friend on securing this important debate. Unlike him, I Committee report, rather than to this debate—but we have had the tragedy of Alzheimer’s strike people close shall see. to me. Has he read the Alzheimer’s Research Trust The next issue that I want to raise is that of local report that estimated that 31 per cent. of people with information on dementia services. Again, a commitment dementia are registered on GPs’ lists? It suggests that was made at the Public Accounts Committee meeting that is due to GPs’ lack of training and confidence in that, by the end of this month, each primary care trust diagnosis. However, a person close to me was referred and local authority would have a joint action plan in by a GP to a consultant. He actively helped her with the place to take forward plans to deliver the strategy, and memory test to improve the outcome. Does my hon. that that would be part of the baseline audit of dementia. Friend share my concern that the health service seems Clearly, we need to know if that will be delivered. Will to be pursuing a strategy of ignoring the problem unless the Minister tell us whether the baseline reviews are on relatives fight for help, or the illness becomes so bad track for delivery by the end of this month and, similarly, that it can no longer be ignored? whether the joint action plans will be ready by the end of this month? Is the Minister confident that those Mr. Burstow: My hon. Friend makes some powerful things can be delivered on time? points. Evidence has been gathered over the years, by Work force issues are at the heart of how all those the Audit Commission and others, of diagnostic denial measures can really transform lives. It is not just about in the NHS with regard to dementia. That is changing, spending more money; it is about ensuring that we have which is good, but some GPs clearly still harbour the a capable and competent work force that can properly view that diagnosis is pointless because there is no cure. care for and look after people with dementia. It was I disagree with that, as does the national strategy. We instructive to note, during the exchanges at the Public need early diagnosis because it allows families to plan Accounts Committee meeting, that one component of and to come to terms with the condition. the issue of the work force is the role of the General Interestingly, the NAO found that more GPs now feel Social Care Council. At the moment, it registers only that early diagnosis is important. That is a good move social workers. Six years have passed since Ministers forward, but some GPs still need to be convinced. In promised the House that staff who work in people’s 2006, 68 per cent. of GPs agreed that it was important. homes would have the opportunity to be registered, and In 2009, the figure was 77 per cent. Only 47 per cent. of would therefore be covered by the standards set by that GPs said that they had had sufficient training in dementia body and regulated by it. management, and almost two thirds were not confident We still do not have a time scale and a deadline by in diagnosing dementia. which those people who go into others’ homes to care According to the research, there has been no for them will be registered with the General Social Care improvement in GP knowledge and awareness of dementia Council. That is clearly a result of the fact that the body over the past five years. There are widely held concerns appears to be rather dysfunctional in a number of ways, among GPs about gaps in post-diagnostic support. as ministerial statements have indicated. It would be That is why there is a question about the role played by useful if the Minister could say a bit more about that, the quality and outcomes framework. It awards GPs and about what discussions are going on between him quality payments for keeping a register of people with and his officials with organisations such as the Royal dementia and for reviewing cases, but there is not much College of General Practitioners, the Royal College of clarity on whether it is possible to enhance the emphasis Nursing and the British Medical Association about on dementia. Will the Minister say what the Department’s developing dementia care skills for health service staff. position is on using the quality and outcomes framework There is a lot of talk at the moment about who pays as a lever to drive change in this area? It could play an for care and how we should do so. That has rightly important role. become a much higher priority for debate and, just last When the Minister launched the strategy, he talked of week, I attended a round table with the Minister and the ambition of having a memory service in every town the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Eddisbury in the country. Was that just an ambition? How will it (Mr. O’Brien), in order to contribute to that discussion. be translated into practice on the ground? How soon I hope that such debates will continue. There is no will that ambition be achieved? doubt that people with dementia and their carers are among the hardest hit by the current charging system. Despite dementia being a medical condition, care is still Mr. Cash: The more I hear, the more impressed I am largely provided through social care, and it is mainly with the landscape being painted by the hon. Gentleman. means-tested, rather than being funded in other ways, Does he think that this debate will get any national as with other illnesses. coverage? Would he like to place a bet with me that it I want to mention some of the excellent work done will almost certainly not be reported at all? by the Princess Royal Trust for Carers, and by Crossroads Care. Those organisations have rightly been snapping at Mr. Burstow: I have been an MP for 13 years, and I the Minister’s heels to ensure that the undertakings am used to the fact that that is sometimes the outcome given in respect of allocations of money to deliver the of Westminster Hall debates. However, obtaining coverage carers strategy bear fruit on the ground. They have just is not the only reason we have such debates; we have published research that has revealed some disturbing them because they provide an opportunity to talk to a findings about the extent to which the money that Minister directly across the floor and get a response. Ministers said would be allocated to carers—particularly That is why I have chosen to initiate the debate. If any for carers’ breaks—has been siphoned off into other attention is paid to the matter that we are discussing, I NHS budgets. 187WH Dementia Strategy16 MARCH 2010 Dementia Strategy 188WH

[Mr. Burstow] known about the extra money since June 2008, and the best committed their spending at an early opportunity. That research demonstrated that the money is not That has to happen, because many of the strategies delivering what it was intended to deliver, and that involve working in partnership with local authorities PCTs planned to spend only 25 per cent. of the £100 million and, moreover, with the voluntary sector in a local area. to increase services for carers—that is, from this April. Lead times have to be considered if there is to be That is a tiny improvement on last year’s situation, but cost-effective delivery of new services, so why has none it is still woefully less than what was promised. A of that happened, and why do we not have the mechanisms significant proportion of the money that is being spent to hold PCTs to account? is probably being double-counted against the money In the Public Accounts Committee hearings, the question allocated for other Government strategies. In my patch, of the cost of NHS continuing health care was raised. the carers strategy money has been double-counted At the end of the session, I asked the Department of alongside money for the dementia strategy. The two Health to write back to me with further information on strategies have been put together, so that the PCT can the subject. I got the reply the other day, which stated: claim that it is achieving its spend. “The Regulatory Impact Assessment which accompanied the National Framework for NHS Continuing Healthcare and NHS Mr. Stephen O’Brien (Eddisbury) (Con): The hon. funded Nursing Care in England (2007), estimated, based on Gentleman is developing a very cogent argument. I dare existing data about the costs of care, the overall cost of implementing say that he was as shocked as I was by the bare-faced the new Framework…in the first full year as £219 million.” cheek of these PCTs, who have been given the money The cost of delivering continuing care, funded by the and put on notice by him, me and others that the NHS, is £219 million. The important question is: what Minister’s wish has not been delivered. The Minister’s happens next? Where does that money come from? This answer has always been that MPs should chase the is what the Department said: PCTs for a resolution to the matter, rather than getting “The costs of implementation will include a cost shift from a grip on the problem himself. However, he said last Local Authority budgets”. week that he would get a grip of the issue, but the future Some £219 million is needed to deliver the Government’s projection of the spend is hardly any better than the framework. How much of that £219 million will come figures that we have already had. It looks as though from a cost shift from local authority budgets? We all the PCTs are spitting in the face of the Minister’s know that social care budgets are under pressure. Social obvious wish. care budgets deliver most of the dementia services that make a different to families’ lives. How on earth can we Mr. Burstow: There is a huge accountability deficit find £219 million out of local authority budgets to pay here. PCTs cannot be held to account, and sometimes for that? Will the Minister give some reassurance about getting an answer to any such questions is like getting what is intended by those words? If they are to be blood out of a stone. I first asked Ministers about the interpreted literally, as I fear they should be, they are matter eight months ago; I was admonished for doing very scary. so and was told that I should be asking my PCT. It took I am grateful to have been given the opportunity to months to get an answer out of them. That answer was initiate the debate, but I want to bring my remarks to a disappointing, and the Princess Royal Trust for Carers close. There is clearly now an acknowledgement that has had similar responses across the country. In fact, dealing with dementia is a huge challenge and that we 25 per cent. of PCTs plan to reduce spending on services need to invest in services. Doing so will save money in for carers, despite the extra resources specifically put the long run and transform lives. We need to make sure into budgets to help with those services. A small number that that is a clear priority. We cannot just leave individual of PCTs continue to provide no services whatever for NHS organisations to choose whether they invest in carers, and that picture is reinforced by the fact that, dementia services, as if they were a luxury item. Those across the country, up to £1 billion that has been services are no luxury; they are essential. That is why allocated may not be reaching its intended recipients. the Government’s rhetoric on dealing with dementia as That is scandalous and a disgrace. a priority must be translated into action on the ground. Of the £150 million committed in 2009 to 2011, I hope that we will hear a positive response from the 24.5 per cent. will be used to increase support for carers; Minister on the issue of research, and some indication the rest has gone somewhere else. The problem is that of a commitment to moving those matters forward. I the issue is not just about the carers strategy; there is look forward to hearing the other contributions to the clearly a problem with the implementation of other debate, and I hope that the Minister will respond in strategies as well—the child health strategy, the end-of-life detail at the end. care strategy and the dementia strategy. All four strategies represent important Government announcements of 10 am nearly £1 billion in new spending. It is proving very hard for most of the charities that cover those areas to Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): The hon. Member for establish precisely how that £1 billion is being used. Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Burstow) is to be congratulated I welcome what the Minister recently said about on initiating this important debate. personally holding PCTs to account. That is very important. On the point about the money that has supposedly However, that positive announcement leads us to ask been allocated to primary care trusts for carers, particularly what the Minister will do to ensure that the PCTs really for respite care, the further figures produced by the deliver. What does such an announcement mean in Princess Royal Trust on how the forward allocation will practice? Many PCTs have been advised that they would not be spent are disappointing. The frustrating point is not be setting budgets until late March. PCTs have that the Government all too often give the impression 189WH Dementia Strategy16 MARCH 2010 Dementia Strategy 190WH that something will happen—that a group such as carers of representatives of the WRVS—formerly the Women’s will be looked after—but then in reality it does not Royal Voluntary Service—which does some really good happen. In my most recent constituency surgery I heard work at the Cornhill centre, providing support for older from a constituent who has been looking after his residents in the community. There are representatives elderly wife, who is suffering from dementia, at home. from Oxfordshire Links and from specific charities and He has been asking for respite care and some help with organisations, such as the Alzheimer’s Society, the Multiple physiotherapy for some time now, but he has received Sclerosis Society and Parkinson’s Disease Society. The absolutely nothing. I put the Minister on notice that I intention is to meet reasonably regularly to try to understand happen to be No. 1 on the list for Prime Minister’s what is happening locally in that landscape, because questions tomorrow, so Mr. Speaker cannot fail to call sometimes it is difficult to relate national initiatives to me. I advise the Minister to give some help to No. 10 on what is happening locally. the matter, because I may well put that point to the That takes me to the Public Accounts Committee Prime Minister. report on improving dementia services in England, to The fact of the matter is that men who reach the age which the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam, who is of 65 today have an average life expectancy of 82, and a member of the Committee, has referred. It might be for women of that age the life expectancy is 85. The helpful if I go through the report’s conclusions. The advances of medical science over the past century mean first conclusion is: that we now have longer life expectancies than at any “Although the Department said dementia would be a national time in the history of civilisation, so we can celebrate priority, it has not afforded it the same status as other national the fact that more people than ever before will live priorities such as cancer and stroke.” longer and, broadly speaking, healthier lives. The number The Committee recommends that strategic health of over-60s will therefore increase over the next two authorities should decades, both as a proportion of the total population “agree with each Primary Care Trust a local dementia implementation and significantly in absolute numbers, as the post-war plan, comprising costed actions and a timetable, by July 2010.” baby boomers move into retirement. Who is leading on that? Will PCTs lead, or in an area However, the human species is not indestructible, and such as mine will county council social services departments although improvements in medical science mean an lead in trying to ensure proper services for those suffering increase in life expectancy, the statistical fact, sadly, is with dementia? The reality, in my experience, is that that a proportion of those people living longer will comparatively few people suffering from dementia will succumb in due course to age-related illness. For example, stay in acute hospitals for a significant length of time. the incidence of dementia rises sharply for those over They might go into an acute hospital because they have 80, from around 6 per cent. for those aged 75 to 79 to broken a hip, for instance, which is often when their 12 per cent. for those aged 80 to 85 and 21 per cent. for dementia is discovered, but because—understandably—their those aged over 85. I understand that one in three long-term needs can rarely be met in an acute general people aged over 65 will die with some form of dementia. hospital, help in a care home or in the community will In the Cherwell district in North Oxfordshire, in my be sought for them fairly speedily. constituency, the population aged over 65 is due to One of my concerns is that I often do not think that increase by 60 per cent., which is significant, over the there is a sense of grip on who is leading. If the PCTs next decade, largely because Banbury was something of are meant to be leading, they also need to be gripping a new town in the 1960s. However, nowhere do I see social services departments, because all too often we evidence of a 60 per cent. increase in nursing home have a situation in which everyone is pointing and provision in the district. saying that it is the other person’s responsibility. Indeed, When I was first elected a Member of Parliament on several occasions I have found that the only way 27 years ago, every Christmas I would visit every nursing Oxfordshire MPs can sort things out is by getting home in my constituency to meet the residents, who everyone involved, such as the PCT and social services, were, by and large, spry widows in their 70s, with the in the same room at the same time to discuss blocked occasional widower. I do not think I heard the word beds, for instance. The PCT will say that it would like to Alzheimer’s until I had been an MP for some years. I no move people out more quickly but cannot get beds in longer visit nursing homes at Christmas, not because I community nursing homes, while social services will say am disinterested—I frequently visit them at other times— that hospitals are not getting the appraisals done quickly but simply because every nursing home in my constituency, enough. We need to know who is leading on that. almost without exception, is filled with elderly residents Mr. Stephen O’Brien: The other element is accountability, suffering from increasingly severe dementia or Alzheimer’s. because whoever is in charge and takes a grip needs to I welcome the recent campaign to raise awareness be accountable for what they are doing so that there is about dementia, led by the Department of Health supported transparency and visibility.Has my hon. Friend’s successful by the Alzheimer’s Society. It has the theme, “Dementia: ageing group expressed a view on where it would like the more we understand, the more we can help”. As few the leadership to come from? There must be some kind of us will live lives untouched either directly or indirectly of recognition of where it expects the lead to come by dementia, it is important that we all have the greatest from. Does it want it to be the PCTs, the local council, understanding about it. Indeed, in my constituency I or indeed the Government? It would be helpful to know have set up an advisory group, called the successful whether the group has expressed a view, because we ageing group, which consists of local people from Help could then take something forward. the Aged, Age Concern and the local carers’ centre, because in Banbury we too are fortunate enough to Tony Baldry: My hon. Friend makes a good point. have one of the first Princess Royal Trust for Carers People would like to feel that they know who has a grip centres, which do excellent work. The group also consists on the matter. There are similar concerns about who is 191WH Dementia Strategy16 MARCH 2010 Dementia Strategy 192WH

[Tony Baldry] for a specific function, such as dementia services, is to ask PCTs simply to give an account of how the money managing the continuing care budget. Is it being managed is spent. It cannot be right that the Department and by county council social services departments, or by the PCTs cannot give the PAC an explanation of how PCTs PCT? If it is being managed by the PCT, as it seems to are spending the money. be, what are the implications for social services if there is some tweaking in applying the budget? Someone has Mr. Burstow: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that to be accountable, so let us know who it is. That is the there should not be national announcements about important issue. sums of money allocated to national strategies unless they are accompanied by a clear plan of how local Mr. O’Brien: My hon. Friend raises a very interesting organisations—NHS and PCTs—will account for how point. I do not want to take him too far away from his they use it? A clear audit trail has to be set up when the prepared remarks, but one of the biggest problems that money is announced. all of us, the Minister included, contend with is that even when polling takes place to find out what the Tony Baldry: I entirely agree; otherwise, confidence in country’s priorities are, caring for our elderly population public policy and the machinery of government is very is not an item that is polled. It is subsumed in the health much undermined. Increasingly, people do not give service or pensions and is never an item on its own. One credence to announcements made by Ministers. They of the problems of the demographics we face—based believe that there is double accounting, window dressing on what my hon. Friend has just said, I dare say that he or double dipping, and that nothing will materialise. has picked up on it—is that we find it difficult to When nothing happens, they understandably feel cheated, identify precisely how people feel about putting it as a which is unfair on everyone involved. The hon. Gentleman priority because it is never disaggregated as an issue of makes a reasonable proposal: why should there not be a concern. straightforward audit trail of money that is specifically allocated by the Department of Health for a specific Tony Baldry: My hon. Friend makes a good point. I purpose, whether it be for dementia or for carers, so that suggest to the House that concerns about caring for the everyone knows where it has gone? elderly will start moving significantly up the political The PAC’s next recommendation states: agenda over the next few years. I am sure I am not alone “The implementation of the Strategy is dependent on achieving”— among Members of Parliament who constantly meet constituents who feel incredibly stretched. The husband an eye-watering— and wife trying to maintain two jobs while they look “£1.9 billion of efficiency savings by increasing care in the community after children on the one hand and aged parents on the and reducing reliance on care provided in care homes and acute other feel very much part of the sandwich generation. hospitals.” One comes across an ever-increasing number of elderly Let us take that apart a bit. As I understand it, the carers who are looking after a husband or wife. It is a dementia strategy that the Government are introducing growing trend and, as I shall say, I am not sure where we will require somewhere a saving of nearly £2 billion by will find sufficient carers as we move forward. reducing the spend on acute hospitals and care homes In its second recommendation, the PAC states: and by increasing care in the community. “Dementia is like cancer in the 1950s, still very much a hidden Where does care in the community come from? “Care disease. There is a need for a massive campaign to promote in the community” is shorthand for people being looked openness and debate on this important and challenging issue.” after at home by a mixture of carers and care workers, Dementia is distressing for those suffering from it and yet the Government’s attempts to give further support their families. Obviously, it is difficult for people suffering to carers at home, by allocating money to help them, from dementia to interrelate socially as they once would have fallen at the first hurdle. have done. The disease tends by definition to get hidden I am sure that when the hon. Member for Sutton and away, and it can sometimes be frightening. The behaviour Cheam meets carers at his local carers centres and asks of people with dementia, Alzheimer’s in particular, can them about their needs, he finds—as I do—that they sometimes be extremely unpredictable. We all need to almost always first articulate the need for a break, or make every effort to explain the challenge that dementia respite care. It varies from person to person: some ask poses, and if we are a caring society in which we have a for a weekly break, or a few hours off so that they can regard to and a concern for the welfare of everyone, we do shopping and so on. The all-party carers group, of will need to learn much more about dementia and which I am a member, had a meeting with the Prime ensure that those who are suffering from it are better Minister last year and all of us—officers and members— cared for. articulated that need. In fairness, the Department came The PAC’s third recommendation has a familiar ring: forward with a chunk of money for carers. It was intended for carers’ breaks, but it is not being used for “The Department does not know how the first £60 million of dementia funding has been spent by Primary Care Trusts. The that by PCTs. What confidence can carers have that the Department has only recently commissioned an audit of costs of Government will support them if they fail at the first dementia services which is expected to be completed in summer hurdle by not ensuring that PCTs allocate carers the 2010.” money that was meant to be allocated to them? I understand that Ministers have a dilemma. On the one Where are the care workers to come from? I have a hand, they cannot dictate or micro-manage from Richmond real concern that nursing homes on my patch seem to be house how every PCT spends every parcel of money manned almost entirely by good-quality nurses from allocated to it, but one would have thought that the very the Philippines and Bulgaria. I do not mean that facetiously. least the Department could do when it allocates money The nurses are recruited and trained by UK nursing 193WH Dementia Strategy16 MARCH 2010 Dementia Strategy 194WH homes, but as soon as they are trained, they are often so, start going downhill fairly fast. It is not that people poached by the local NHS and move into it. Nursing are insensitive or unthinking, it is just that unless someone homes are continuously having to train and retrain says to their GP, “Look, this person needs some help”, people. It is an ongoing experience. a diagnosis will not necessarily be picked up early. If we I do not see a co-ordinated programme to ensure that are talking about continuing professional development jobs in nursing homes are seen as worth while, rewarding for GPs, one thing they need to consider much more in and valued in their own right by society. I see no their surgeries is how they respond to and work with evidence of local further education colleges or universities carers for those who are suffering from dementia, laying on courses at, for example, national vocational particularly if the Government’s policy is that ever qualification level 4 so that we can have more qualified more people should be looked after at home and not care workers. [Interruption.] I would be happy if the necessarily in care homes. Minister told me in his summing up that I am wrong. I The PAC observes: just do not see evidence of that in Oxfordshire. Whenever “There is unacceptable regional variation in access to diagnostic I visit nursing homes, I am told that one of their great services for dementia and in access to dementia drugs…Local concerns is recruitment of staff. If we are to have far leadership is still lacking in NHS hospitals, in primary care and in more people providing care in the community, it will the social care and care home sectors.” require a considerably larger number of qualified, caring That is a pretty damning conclusion. The PAC advises care workers. One can introduce the policy only if such that every acute hospital should have a “senior clinical people are available. leader” by the end of this month, who should The shorthand for that move is “personalisation of “work with the new Care Homes Champion to develop dementia care services”, which is the jargon that is being used. ‘Champions’ across the care home sector.” May I put down a marker? If people are to be looked after more in the community, that should not be shorthand That takes me back to my original point, which is that for their being isolated at home; they still need to be everyone wants to be confident that there are people in able to get to day centres to interact with others and to the system who have a grip and who provide leadership, have a community life. I am concerned that pressures whether in respect of an acute hospital trust, a social are being put on social services departments and county services department or within the care homes sector. councils, on one hand to increase the amount of money The PAC says: that they are giving for care in the community, which is “Most people with dementia receive their day-to-day care from shorthand for people being looked after at home, whereas domiciliary carers or care home staff, who have little understanding on the other hand, as a consequence, there is less money of dementia, which therefore puts at risk the quality of care and for day centres and other provision for the elderly. safety of some of the most vulnerable people in society. After six The PAC states: years of debate and discussion, plans to introduce registration of “This should include an immediate requirement for acute social care staff, many of whom are without qualifications, appears hospitals to have an older people’s mental health liaison team in to have been abandoned. As a result these staff will remain place to ensure that unnecessary admissions are avoided and that unregulated for some time to come.” discharge to appropriate care is as swift as possible.” It is not just a question of regulation; it is about staff I can only report that I have not yet come across an being valued and appreciated, and about who takes the older people’s mental health liaison team in the Oxford lead and who should be responsible for ensuring that we Radcliffe Hospitals NHS Trust. have enough domiciliary carers or care home staff who The next recommendation states: are properly and fully trained and who feel valued, just “Early diagnosis of dementia is crucial in providing timely and as nurses in a hospital feel valued. The work that appropriate care and in preventing more costly hospital or residential domiciliary carers and care home staff do is crucial and care. The Department should work with Primary Care Trusts to invaluable in our society and deserves to be appreciated, ensure they urgently commission good quality and effective memory valued and recognised. Registration should not be regarded services.” as some sort of indictment. If there is registration, it I have another suggestion that will help. Most general should be regarded as a qualification that is considered practitioners are stressed for time, but the condition of worthwhile. a large number of people who are suffering from Alzheimer’s Lastly, like a number of previous reports, the PAC or dementia in its early stages will have been picked up notes: by their family or their husbands or wives much more quickly than by the GP. If we asked GPs to set up a “There is inappropriate and excessive prescribing of anti-psychotic voluntary register of people who are carers, and if drugs for people with dementia, particularly those living in care homes, which has contributed to up to 1,800 additional deaths carers were recognised much more in the NHS system, I each year.” suspect that there would be greater opportunity for carers to say to GPs, “I think my husband or wife is in That situation often comes about because care homes the early stages of some difficulties with memory and have to look after people with dementia with too few perhaps dementia.” It can often be difficult for an staff, and the only way they can manage the numbers is individual to acknowledge or admit that they are in the by putting patients on those terrible cocktails of anti- early stages of dementia or Alzheimer’s. We need to psychotic drugs. encourage more people, as carers, to discuss candidly An enormous amount of work still has to be done, and frankly with their GPs the suffering of their loved and if we are to get a grip on it, there needs to be one or the fact that they are in the early stages of leadership from Ministers downwards. This is a growing dementia. issue—a growing challenge to us all, wherever we live in I am sure that all hon. Members, as friends, relatives the country—and we need to ensure as a starting point and constituency MPs, see people who are finding life that in future if the Government make pledges on slightly difficult and who will, in a couple of months or dementia or other issues, those pledges are not broken. 195WH Dementia Strategy16 MARCH 2010 Dementia Strategy 196WH

10.27 am parties to say whether they would commit to them, and that would move the debate on in a way that we would Greg Mulholland (Leeds, North-West) (LD): It is a all welcome. pleasure to serve under your leadership, Mr. Streeter, I turn to some of the specific issues of the dementia and to have the chance to speak in such an important strategy. My hon. Friend and the hon. Member for debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury mentioned the NAO report, and I shall refer Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Burstow) on securing it. to a few of the concerns and criticisms. First, I recently Throughout this Parliament and his career, he has been referred on the Floor of the House to memory clinics. a champion for older people and has led the debate on In the light of the apparent change in commitment, will many issues regarding older people, particularly those the Minister confirm whether the vital services provided unfortunate people suffering from the range of conditions by specialist memory clinics will be available to some that we term dementia, and their families and friends extent throughout the United Kingdom even if it is not who also suffer. possible to locate one in every town? Secondly, training I do not intend to make a long speech, because my remains an enormously important part of the strategy, hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Banbury (Tony and as hon. Members have said, we still have inadequate Baldry) have already covered most of the salient points training on dementia care for health and social care in their excellent speeches. I am sure that this will be our professionals. Will the Minister give an assessment of last chance to debate the important issue of health and what progress has been made, and explain what discussions social care, so it is a chance to assess where we are with he has had with the professional colleges, such as the the national dementia strategy and what progress has Royal College of General Practitioners, the British Medical been made during this Parliament. Equally—almost Association and the Royal College of Nursing, about more importantly—all hon. Members have to call for developing the dementia care skills of health service whoever is in government after the election to make staff? dementia a clear priority. I commit myself and the Carers have rightly been an important part of the Liberal Democrats to that and to being part of it. debate, and we have all spoken on many occasions during this Parliament about their huge importance. This is not the time for more warm words. It is time The hon. Member for Castle Point (Bob Spink), who is for a clear commitment to deliver and to work together not now in his place, reminded us that if they were not to deliver: we are starting to do that more, which is caring for loved ones, friends and neighbours, there positive. We have to do that because all hon. Members would be a huge additional burden on the social care are committed to real breakthroughs in dementia. It is sector and the NHS. The startling sum of £87 billion is important to say that, and we all want to say it. It the contribution that carers make our economy, but is about making a commitment—saying that it will carers’ organisations remain deeply dissatisfied about happen. whether the carers’ strategy is being implemented and I want to pick up a few points that have been made the money that is specifically allocated goes to the key and to emphasise some of the questions that have been area of respite for carers. put to the Minister. First, there is ongoing concern The Princess Royal Trust for Carers estimates that about the apparent lack of prioritisation for dementia only 80 per cent. of the money allocated has been used care and the fact that the recently published NHS to support carers. It also pointed out the synergy with operating framework did not refer explicitly to dementia, the dementia strategy and the end-of-life-care strategy which was not considered to be a tier 1 priority, or even in terms of the money being allocated, which is about a tier 2 or 3 priority. Why is that? More importantly, will £1 billion in total. That is simply not being spent on the the Minister give the strongest assurance that it will be purposes and important areas to which the Government included in subsequent operating frameworks and will allocated it. The trust made a powerful point when it not suffer in the meantime from being excluded? Similarly, said: we have been told that the vital signs indicators have “There is a systemic failure in the way that Government been laid out, but if there are new priorities for the attempts to implement or monitor the progress of national strategies.” nation’s well-being, why can those vital signs not be We all agree that national strategies are good, but if updated as we go along? they are not being implemented and properly monitored, The second important area is research, about which they will fail. None of us must allow that to happen. my hon. Friend spoke strongly. I, too, have referred to it on several occasions. We have heard the figures and Mr. Burstow: Does my hon. Friend agree that a stark about the imbalance at the same time as the ticking time contrast has emerged from the National Audit Office’s bomb of an ageing population and its effect on costs. It work? The NAO gave a glowing report on the national has been estimated that the cost of dementia in England stroke strategy’s progress and identified two key differences. will treble over the next generation from £17 billion to First, the money for that strategy was clearly identified £50 billion. That is simply unsustainable, so clearly in advance and, secondly, clear national priorities were there must be an increase in the spending on dementia attached to it through the operating framework. Those research. My question echoes that asked by my hon. are missing from other strategies, which his why there is Friend. Will the Minister indicate the outcome of the systemic failure. welcome ministerial taskforce meeting, and may we see the minutes? Crucially, what timelines do the Government Greg Mulholland: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, envisage for increasing funding for dementia research? which is why there is concern that the strategies, which That is what we need to see. Will there be an announcement we all agree are important, are simply not biting or around the time of the Budget? I would warmly welcome having the impact that we all agree they need to have. I that. If timelines were in place, it would be for other note that 12 leading charities approached the Secretary 197WH Dementia Strategy16 MARCH 2010 Dementia Strategy 198WH of State for Health, offering to meet and to work currently 700,000 people diagnosed with dementia in together to share findings and to look for solutions. the UK, and that figure is set to double over the next Unfortunately, that offer was not taken up. Will the 30 years. As we consider how we might deliver better Minister say whether that decision could be reconsidered, care to dementia patients, it is important to remember even at this late stage? I can commit the Liberal Democrats’ that without wider social care reform, the needs of health team to working with leading charities in that dementia patients will remain unmet. way and to share findings and advocate solutions. It is not only the Opposition who have concerns I pay tribute to my hon. Friend who has championed about the Government’s implementation of the dementia the cause against anti-psychotics. It remains a scandal strategy. As we have heard, the NAO report published that they are still used inappropriately from a health in January criticised the Government on several counts point of view and infringe the human rights of some of for their actions since the publication of the strategy. To those for whom they are wrongly prescribed. Will the my mind, the NAO’s findings raise three pivotal concerns. Minister update us on progress? Clearly, he and the The first concern is the lack of accountability in place Secretary of State take the matter seriously, so will he to ensure that PCTs spend the £60 million from the give us some firm timelines on when the use of such strategy for 2010-11 on dementia services. We need only drugs will be ruled out once and for all in inappropriate look at the recent carers strategy to see how urgently cases? This is an important policy area to which we are that accountability is needed. Before Christmas, it emerged all committed. We must look forward to the next that the £50 million dispersed for emergency respite Parliament, and I will certainly do what I can to continue care this year hardly reached the front line, having been to raise these issues, as will all Liberal Democrats. I soaked up by local PCT bureaucracy, and we have had hope that others will also do so. It is time to ensure that some exchanges on that. the dementia strategy delivers. Warm words are fine, Given that disturbing precedent, I hope that the but they must be turned into action and the real Minister will tell us how the Government intend to breakthroughs that we need. ensure that they keep a grip on the allocation of resources that have been identified and earmarked for the dementia 10.39 am strategy. During the Opposition day debate, the response by the Secretary of State for Health was deeply worrying. Mr. Stephen O’Brien (Eddisbury) (Con): I congratulate On the dementia strategy, he said that he had the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Burstow) “given PCTs the freedom to determine their spending based on on securing this important debate, which succeeds a local needs.”—[Official Report, 27 January 2010; Vol. 504, c. 831.] series of such debates in this House. I also congratulate Although autonomy for PCTs should be promoted, my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) that does not mean that the Department should lose on his predictably excellent contribution. track of local spending decisions and have no capacity I welcome the opportunity to debate the dementia to check how central funds that are assigned for specific strategy today, and to keep up the pressure that we put purposes, such as dementia, have been spent. on the Government in our Opposition day debate to When the Minister, the hon. Member for Sutton and ensure that funding for the strategy breaks free from Cheam and I met the Princess Royal Trust for Carers Whitehall and primary care trust bureaucracy, and reaches last week, I was pleased to see the Minister make a patients on the front line, who live each day with the U-turn on his line that it was up to each MP to chase up knowledge that their memory is gradually slipping away their own PCT on the issue of the carers strategy from them. Dementia is a debilitating and frightening funding. [Interruption.] The Minister laughs because disease, and those who suffer from it rightly want to he is embarrassed, but he said that the PCTs would now know what action the Government are taking now be directly accountable to him, and the hon. Member to ensure that they may access appropriate care, and for Sutton and Cheam was there to witness that. It is what research they are undertaking to discover new important that the Minister takes the opportunity to treatments for the disease. shed some light on how PCTs will be expected to report It is right to pay tribute to the thousands of carers to him, and tells us what measures he will introduce to who look after loved ones, and to those charities that ensure that the accountability now in place will be tirelessly campaign in the cause of those who suffer maintained in the long term. from dementia. As if a diagnosis of dementia were not enough to deal with, the last few weeks have added new Mr. Burstow: I thank the hon. Gentleman for mentioning cause for concern for those suffering from Alzheimer’s. that important point. Although it is incumbent on the In addition to the National Audit Office’s criticism of Minister to spell out how he will ensure that accountability, the Government’s implementation of the dementia strategy, given the proximity of the general election, surely it is news headlines have been filled with reports of the incumbent on us all to say how we will ensure that the Government’s convoluted proposal for a death tax; money gets to the front line. Will the hon. Gentleman the inappropriate tube-feeding of elderly and dementia do that? patients in care homes and hospitals; and a rise in cases of malnutrition among older people in the NHS. Alongside Mr. O’Brien: The hon. Gentleman is right to ask me that, there has been a political debate about how to about that. If there were time to do so, I would be more tackle the decade-long silence from the Government on than pleased to develop that point. [Laughter.] Suffice social care reform. it to say, before the Minister has complete hysterics, that Against that backdrop of existing problems surrounding the NHS board and the NHS autonomy and accountability dementia care, we must acknowledge the scale of the Bill, which will be introduced in the first year of a challenge ahead. Of the 8.2 million people aged over 65, Conservative Government, would be the chaser and and the 6 million people using social care, there are enforcer of such matters. That is what is so absent 199WH Dementia Strategy16 MARCH 2010 Dementia Strategy 200WH

[Mr. Stephen O’Brien] the remit of the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence. It should include not only cost and from the Government’s plans—they give headline clinical effectiveness in its assessments, but the wider announcements but have nothing to chase them through, societal cost, which is vital. That would require primary so the accountability fails. legislation, and we have been calling for that change for I hope that the Minister will take that point seriously, four and a half years. The best example is, of course, rather than seek to laugh it off, and that we can move to Aricept, which can postpone, and therefore relieve, many the second concern, which is the vagueness with which of the early onset needs of Alzheimer’s patients, thereby the dementia strategy laid out its funding sources for postponing the time when a much greater care package the next decade. To date, the Government’s impact needs to be found. assessment has identified only £533 million of efficiency We have sought to look at the problem of residential savings over 10 years, which leaves nearly three quarters care, but the fear of going into residential care needs to of the £1.9 billion budget unaccounted for. The Government be addressed. Tony Blair identified that issue in 1997, have yet to give a detailed indication of where the but it has not been addressed for 13 years. The arguments money will come from, and I hope that the Minister will for our home protection scheme have been well rehearsed, provide details on that. Clearly, those savings have so I will not rehearse them again today. The scheme already been announced, and we do not need to wait for seeks to address that element of the care requirement, the Budget for them—that is the normal cover claimed which is something that particularly affects dementia by Ministers at the moment. There is an opportunity patients because so many end up going into residential this morning to put those details on the record at last. care. That is why the issue is of such vital importance. The third concern with the strategy was highlighted In this debate, and as we come to the end of this by my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury and also Parliament, there is an opportunity to hold a stocktake, mentioned in the NAO report; it is the Government’s and I make no apology for doing so. We have heard a lot need to tackle the gaping hole in the skills set of all of promises from the Government, and a considerable professionals who encounter dementia patients as part number of headlines have been generated. However, of their job. We sought reassurance on that matter despite the warm words and the other utterances that during the Opposition day debate, and the Secretary of secure headlines—that is the result of any ministerial State said that he had commissioned Skills for Health announcement—it must be right to hold the Government and Skills for Care to assess training needs. However, he to account, and to ask them to report on how they have did not specify whether the Government were looking delivered, rather than simply promised, not only on the specifically at dementia training or at the broader work dementia strategy, but on other strategies allied to it. In force agenda, and I hope that the Minister will take the the 11 minutes that the Minister has in which to reply, opportunity to clarify that point. he has the opportunity to report on the delivery of The hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam mentioned those strategies, rather than simply on the promises. the important issue of the evolving discussion that started with the early-hit headline announcement of 10.49 am memory clinics in every constituency.That was downgraded The Minister of State, Department of Health (Phil to memory services, and then to services that seem to Hope): I congratulate the hon. Member for Sutton and exist already, mainly psychiatric services and centres. Cheam (Mr. Burstow) on securing the debate. We have Perhaps the Minister will update us on where he has got debated social care and dementia issues on many occasions, to with putting a memory clinic “in every town”, to be and it is always a pleasure, as the Minister responsible precise with the quote. Let us see whether the strategy for care services, to come to the House to describe the has been delivered on and has fulfilled the hopes that huge progress that we have been making in recent years were raised by the headlines that were secured by the and our ambitious plans for the future. Government’s announcement. Dementia is a devastating disease. It is a disease of Dementia research is another vital area. We must the present, which affects many people—more than ensure that we match the commitment to research— 700,000. The hon. Gentleman mentioned a higher figure; particularly where that research has Government funding— either way, many people have the disease. It is also a that involves tracking the anticipated and known major disease of the future, as other hon. Members demography coming down the track. We have pledged noted. The number of dementia cases is set to double to give greater priority to research on dementia and within a generation. However, I emphasise that it is not Alzheimer’s within Government research budgets, a disease without hope. There are many ways in which and we hold to that pledge. Hopefully, that will be we can support people with dementia. It is possible for matched, and I am encouraged by the Government’s people to live and to live well with the disease, rather more recent announcement of a new ministerial group than just die from it. That is one reason why we must on dementia research. It would be helpful to find out challenge the stigma and fear attached to it, and the what progress has been made to date—I think that there awareness campaign that we launched last week is set to has been a meeting—and to learn what support is on do that among the public and professionals alike. That offer. We can then ensure that our research, which is is the spirit in which the dementia strategy was world-class and in which we are leaders, can be capitalised developed—to empower and support individuals, families on, so that benefits to patients can be developed and and carers to live full and rewarding lives in the face of accelerated. dementia. That is why I am determined to implement I come to a point that has not yet been mentioned, the national strategy quickly, effectively and in full. but which is vital. We recognise—uniquely at the moment, Let me be clear: dementia has been, is and will although we would be more than happy if other parties continue to be a priority for the Government and for me were prepared to match the pledge—the need to widen personally. I was delighted to see that that was noted 201WH Dementia Strategy16 MARCH 2010 Dementia Strategy 202WH clearly by the National Audit Office report. It measured New joint commissioning guidance was published in progress in terms of the fieldwork five months into our June. That addresses the point made by the hon. Member five-year strategy, and I was pleased that it said: for Banbury (Tony Baldry) about how accountability “We found strong direction and national leadership for the and responsibility have to be shared locally, because it is Strategy by the Director General for Social Care… Departmental health and social care that meet the needs of people leadership throughout development of the Strategy was judged as with dementia. Joint commissioning is the answer about excellent by most stakeholders.” how we ensure that local partners work together to Today’s Public Accounts Committee report describes meet the needs of patients and their families. the national and regional leadership as “strong”. Indeed, An online dementia portal has been established to the Chairman of the Committee, the hon. Member for capture and disseminate best practice with regard to the Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh), summed up at the end of complex number of organisations involved in providing one of the oral evidence sessions by congratulating the dementia services. The sector skills councils—Skills for witnesses, particularly Mr. Behan, Care and Development and Skills for Health—have “because I always like to congratulate witnesses who show drive embarked on a mapping exercise considering training and vigour”. opportunities for professionals working with people I could not agree with him more, so I would like to take who have dementia to address the specific question that this opportunity to say that, everywhere I go, I see I was asked. It is also considering the gaps that may passion, pace and drive in making change happen. The exist. result is that we are seeing real progress and are firmly An earlier area for action is the work that we are on track to deliver the strategy that I had the privilege doing with the Royal College of General Practitioners—the to publish just over a year ago. The past 12 months have point about GPs was raised during the debate—to been about an active process to lay the foundations for develop new training materials for GPs to raise their a major shift—a major cultural change—as much as a awareness and understanding of patients who may have change in the practice of health and social care professionals. early signs of dementia. The considerable advances that we have made during We have accepted the conclusions and recommendations year 1 of the strategy will put us in a strong position to of the anti-psychotics review, including the call for a transform services in years 2, 3, 4 and 5, and I want to two-thirds reduction in the use of anti-psychotic drugs. place on the record the progress that has been made. Professor Alistair Burns, the new national clinical director, There is strong direction and leadership of the strategy, will lead on implementing those recommendations, starting both nationally and regionally.We have an implementation with a full audit of prescribing practices. We want that plan in place to lead the reform process. We have a completed by this October, to answer the question from strong governance structure, with a programme board, the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam, so the two a working group and an external reference group, driving years will be to October 2012. forward reform and keeping close tabs on progress. We have strong leaders in place nationally. The first ever We are also boosting public and professional awareness national clinical director for dementia, Professor Alistair through the dementia awareness campaign that we launched Burns, was appointed in January. Ian Carruthers, chief in partnership with the Alzheimer’s Society a few weeks executive of the South West strategic health authority, ago. I hope that many people will have seen the adverts and Martin Green, chief executive of the English and the TV campaign, which are doing a great job. Community Care Association, are national dementia On research, I have set up and chaired the first champions for the NHS and the independent sector meeting of the new ministerial group to improve the respectively. All three of those national leaders are quantity and quality of research submissions competing working to inspire greater ownership and better leadership for the £1.7 billion of research funds available from the across health and social care. National Institute for Health Research and the Medical We have deputy regional directors of social care Research Council. At the first meeting, I made clear my working to secure local buy-in and providing advice to intention to issue a research call in the future to invite local organisations. There is also clear and substantial new bids for dementia research covering the causes, action to raise standards and improve knowledge. Forty cures and care of people suffering from this disease. I demonstrator sites have been set up around the country will ensure that hon. Members see a copy of the minutes to consider how dementia advisers and peer support of that meeting. It was a very good meeting. The networks can help families to obtain the support that charities that have been mentioned are involved as they need. I have met many families who find those partners, and five work streams are under way. forms of support very important. I make no apologies for that long list. I know that others wish to describe us as not having got on with the Mr. Burstow: Could I ask the Minister to address the process of delivery; I am demonstrating thoroughly just real concern, which is about the money getting to where how much we are doing that. it is needed, and given that I have asked several other Let me deal with one or two other points that have questions that he probably will not have a chance to been made. On funding, I have said that dementia is a answer today, will he write to me to answer them? complex disease that spans health and social care, and we have a variety of levers involving a variety of Phil Hope: I will do my best to reply to the hon. organisations to achieve the change that we want to see Gentleman today in the time allotted to me. Regional locally. There is cross-party consensus that we should baseline reviews were completed in the autumn, paving not make it a mandatory requirement in the national the way for detailed local dementia plans. He asked operating framework or return to ring-fenced funding. whether they would be received this year. Yes, I hope so. I do not think that anyone has asked for that today. I They will be delivered as we start the new financial year. think that that is right. However, I can confirm that the 203WH Dementia Strategy 16 MARCH 2010 204WH

[Phil Hope] Defence Industry (Lancashire) operating framework of 2010-11 continues to refer to the dementia strategy, building on the recommendations 11 am in the 2009-10 operating framework that PCTs should prioritise improvements to local services for the early Mr. David S. Borrow (South Ribble) (Lab): I am identification of and intervention in dementia and that grateful to have the opportunity to raise issues relating PCTs should work with local authorities to consider to the defence industry in Lancashire. Lancashire is how they improve those services. probably at the heart of the UK’s defence industry, Furthermore, the new QIPP—quality, innovation, although when I first moved to Preston in 1975, I did productivity and prevention—programme will guide not realise how important the industry there was. the NHS through the savings that it needs to make over At the time, British Aerospace, as it then was, ran the next five years, and that will cover dementia services. three major aerospace factories in the Preston area. One The world-class commissioning programme will continue was at Warton, to the west of Preston, one was Salmesbury, to enable the NHS and social care to commission the to the east of Preston, and one was at the old Strand right services. Road site, right in the centre of the city. Strand Road Most important of all is winning the hearts and had a long history of aerospace production, going back minds of people locally, which is what all the people generations and through the second world war. We have whom I have mentioned, including those leaders in and a long tradition of producing a variety of aircraft, from outside the Department, and I are doing with energy, the Hampden, the Canberra and the Lightning right up determination and success. We have given the NHS to the Tornado and the Typhoon in the present day. freedom and flexibility. It is right—I think that the hon. Lancashire’s defence industry at the time was based Member for Eddisbury (Mr. O’Brien) referred to this—that around those three major factories, together with two it has that freedom and flexibility, but it needs to be Royal Ordnance factories—one in Blackburn and one held to account for its progress. Therefore, we are between Chorley and Leyland. What always interested conducting a full review of progress through a national me about the Royal Ordnance factory at Chorley was audit of dementia services. That will examine the number that the Ordnance Survey map would show nothing at of dementia leads in hospitals, the number of memory the site apart from trees and a bit of green. However, services established and the use of anti-psychotic drugs. anyone who went on the railway line would stop at a We expect the first results to be available by the autumn. special station, which allowed thousands of ROF workers The audit will consider how money is spent on dementia to get off the train to go to work in the huge factories services as a whole—not just the £150 million, but the spread over hundreds of acres between Leyland and £8.2 billion being spent on health and social care for Chorley. A third of the site is now in my constituency people with dementia. and two thirds is in the Chorley constituency. The ROF We are taking this issue forward. I am proud of the has now virtually gone, and there is a new village called work that we have done as a Government. I look Buckshaw. The railway station will shortly come back forward to being here in June to report further on the into use as a commuter station, and thousands of progress that the Government have made in meeting the houses and factories are being built on the site. The old needs of people with dementia. ROF site at Blackburn also closed many years ago. None the less, the defence industry remains crucial to Lancashire. It is based around the Salmesbury and Warton plants, but there are also a large number of small supply companies. In the early ’90s, when the Tornado was in full production, I attended an unveiling ceremony in Warton for what was probably not quite a prototype—it would be a bit grand to talk about it as such—but a model for what became the Eurofighter Typhoon. Many years later, the Typhoon is coming off the production line. I was pleased when my hon. Friend the Minister signed the contract for tranche 3A of the Typhoon, which has secured many jobs in my area. There are 112 aircraft in tranche 3A, and we need to see whether we can get tranche 3B. Those of us in the area are still working on that. The Tornado was probably the last major fighter to be a UK-only plane. The Typhoon was a joint production with Germany, Spain and Italy and it has been very successful.

Mr. Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con): The hon. Gentleman might like to correct himself. The Tornado was a joint effort involving the same partners—Britain, Germany and Italy. It was not just the Typhoon that was built in that way; it built on the Tornado experience. 205WH Defence Industry (Lancashire)16 MARCH 2010 Defence Industry (Lancashire) 206WH

Mr. Borrow: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. He The key part of the industry probably lies with the and I have a long history of dealing with aerospace Eurofighter Typhoon programme at BAE Systems. Shortly, issues in this place, being officers of the all-party group however, the F35 joint strike fighter programme will on aerospace. I know of his interest in the issues, given come on stream. It is a Lockheed Martin programme, that he represents Farnborough, which is the headquarters with BAE Systems as the main partner because it has of BAE Systems. On many issues, we have fought on the certain technical skills that are needed as part of the same side in the interests of the aerospace and defence programme. industries. Many of us who have been involved for many years in I first became involved in defence and aerospace as a the development of the programme will know how young councillor in Preston in the early ’90s, when important it has been to acquire the ability to transfer Strand Road was closed and we faced large-scale intellectual property from the US to the UK, to ensure redundancies. I became involved in the situation as an that we shall in future be able to develop and use any economist and as someone who was concerned about aircraft we purchase as we want to, rather than relying economic development and who wanted to see what on the United States model. There have been complex would happen. Preston city council got involved with a and difficult negotiations over the years to ensure that number of local authorities in establishing the airline BAE Systems has had access to intellectual property network, to see what we could do to speak up for the from Lockheed Martin. I have been pleased at the way defence and aerospace industry. the Government have engaged in those negotiations, At about the same time, Lancashire county council, and even though the deal in question is company to British Aerospace and a number of smaller companies company, given that we plan to purchase 140 aircraft it established a network to focus on the industry.A gentleman is crucial to ensure that we have control over their use called Dennis Mendoras, who runs a company in Pendle, and can modify and develop them during their lifetime. was a leading figure in the organisation, which eventually Currently, £800 million is being invested in the new became the North West Aerospace Alliance. For a Samlesbury plant. I think it is spread over 10 years. I number of years, Dennis was a member of the Northwest was there a few weeks ago and the construction is Regional Development Agency, a role that he used to magnificent. It is a huge investment in manufacturing in speak up for the aerospace industry. the north-west, of which we should be proud. It will It is interesting that the NWDA has been crucial in secure many jobs not just now but in the future, as the supporting the aerospace and defence industries in the production there will be for part of every aircraft that is north-west in recent years. Let me give two examples. produced across the world. That is thousands of aircraft, First, there is the aerospace supply chain excellence even though we are looking to purchase about 140. programme. Its first scheme started in 2006 and received That is where we are now, but perhaps we can think £8 million in funding from the European regional about where we could be in future. I have visited the development fund. As a result, four companies from Warton site many times, and several times have visited across Lancashire—well, one is slightly outside Lancashire, its unmanned aerial vehicle centre, which has been although it is perhaps in historic Lancashire—secured a doing considerable research and development on UAVs £250 million order as part of the new F35 joint strike for several years. There are at the moment two UAVs fighter programme. The companies involved are Hyde that are key to the future. One is Taranis, which was Aero Products in Dukinfield, the RLC Group at Altham, launched in 2006; it is a joint Ministry of Defence and near Burnley, John Huddleston Engineering at Blackpool industry project, led by BAE Systems, to test the viability and ThyssenKrupp at Bamber Bridge, just south of of UAVs. The first prototype, with a unique stealthy Preston. The other programme, called ASCE 2, which flying wing, is currently being built. It has not yet flown, receives funding of £3.6 million from the NWDA and but that will happen in the not-too-distant future. The £3.5 million from the European regional development second aircraft, the Mantis, has already flown. It was fund, started towards the end of last year. produced within 19 months of the first consideration of Both programmes demonstrate the importance of the concept, and flew towards the end of last year. The the NWDA, so I am concerned about proposals to get target was for it to be able to fly for 36 hours without rid of it. It is important to have a regional perspective landing. for industry. It has been suggested that if the NWDA were scrapped, the funding would go to local authorities That area of development is crucial for the employment or straight to the Government office for the north-west, prospects of people in the defence industry in Lancashire. or that it would be disbursed by officials down here in If we look beyond the F-35 and the Eurofighter Typhoon London. If the money goes to local authorities, there is it is difficult to envisage future generations of fast jets unlikely to be a regional perspective in any investment that will create jobs in their current numbers. The or decisions. If it is disbursed by the Government office current thrust for military aircraft is towards UAVs. It is for the north-west, it will be difficult to have any important that we should be at the forefront of that accountability. If decisions are made by a civil servant development. We need to ensure that future investment down here in London, that will further reduce the will continue and that the defence and aerospace skills regional aspect of any decisions. that exist in Lancashire will go on. Such skills have been At the moment, decisions are made by people who in the area for generations. When I visit schools there, it live and work in the north-west; indeed, the NWDA’s is interesting that many children have parents who work chief executive is a constituent. It makes a difference in the defence and aerospace industry, and grandfathers when we are able to speak to the people who make the and great-grandfathers who worked in it too. decisions because they live and work in our region. The The technology and engineering side of things is aerospace and defence industry in the north-west has a important in Lancashire. I visited a technology competition regional perspective, and the ability to fund developments on Friday. It was run by the local Rotary clubs and in the area through a regional body is crucial. sponsored by BAE Systems. It was fascinating to see the 207WH Defence Industry (Lancashire)16 MARCH 2010 Defence Industry (Lancashire) 208WH

[Mr. Borrow] I made clear in a letter that I sent to the leaders of the defence industry, there was no such imputation to be involvement of groups from a host of schools in my made in relation to the remarks of the shadow Chancellor. constituency, including groups of girls—it is good that He did not list any programmes that were scheduled to more women engineers are coming forward. We need to be axed. He was asked a question in another context. In take the Lancashire tradition of work in defence and my letter I made it clear that we shall have a defence aerospace into the future. I worry that when the existing review and I shall set those things out later. I hope the programmes come to an end there will be nothing hon. Gentleman will address the headline in his leaflet, afterwards. If UAVs are what will be needed at that of which I have a copy. It says, “Vote Conservative time, their development needs to be thought through. and destroy the defence industry”. Will he explain, and Moving on, perhaps I may make my remarks a little apologise for that? more political. I am conscious of the importance of the F-35 joint strike fighter, but I have been concerned Mr. Gary Streeter (in the Chair): Order. Interventions about the fact that although the Government have been should be short. positive in supporting it—they have been active in the negotiations to ensure that intellectual property can be Mr. Borrow: I was somewhat puzzled that the hon. transferred, and have made the decision to go ahead Gentleman mentioned the leaflet, because Aldershot is with the carriers from which many of the aircraft will obviously a long way from South Ribble. However, fly—that is not necessarily true of all parties in the when he cited the fulsome praise of the Conservative House. I was interested to read the comments of my candidate who is to be my opponent in the general hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, South-West election, I twigged that she comes from the same part of (Mr. Davidson) in a debate on 1 March. the world as him and that the leaflet was probably My hon. Friend talked about shipyard conveners passed to him on a weekend trip to the south. visiting Opposition parties. They came away reasonably happy from a meeting with the Liberal Democrats: Mr. Howarth: The leaflet was not passed on in that “However, the convenors were greatly depressed when they fashion. It was posted to me. Lorraine Fullbrook, who went to meet the hon. Member for Woodspring (Dr. Fox), who, is the hon. Gentleman’s doughty and feisty opponent—she speaking on behalf of the official Opposition, made it clear that has every prospect of succeeding him in this place—has, the action that a Conservative Government would take on day one would be to examine the break clauses in the contract. Had as he well knows, been resident in the area for five years. he said to them, ‘I’m afraid I can’t tell you anything because it will As the hon. Gentleman said, when he went to Lancashire take us six months to set up a review, and then a year to have the in 1975 he did not know that it had an important review, and then maybe a couple of weeks at the end of that to aerospace industry. Lorraine Fullbrook knew even before decide on it, so it will be 18 months or so before we can come a she clapped eyes on Lancashire. decision’, they would not have been happy with that, but they could have understood it, because that had been a relatively consistent position; indeed, it was the Liberals’ position until they Mr. Borrow: I have some sympathy for the hon. accepted the strength of the convenors’ arguments. But no, the Gentleman, because I know that he is a strong supporter Conservatives said that on day one they would examine the break of the aerospace and defence industries. However, having clauses—no one examines the break clauses on day one unless the read his speech of 1 March and having seen various intention might be to apply them on day two.” Conservative party statements, I see that the party has a That set alarm bells ringing for my constituents, who formula should it come to office; it will carry out a wonder what a Conservative Government would mean. strategic defence review. However, until that is done, it is If there is no commitment to the two aircraft carriers, unable to make any commitments. I am sure that the there is no commitment to go ahead with the order for hon. Gentleman would like to be able to reassure my the F-35 joint strike fighter. In that same debate, the constituents that, should there be a change of Government, hon. Member for Aldershot (Mr. Howarth) quoted the programmes for the Typhoon and the F-35 would from a leaflet distributed by the Labour party in my be safe, but he is unable to do so. constituency, and referred to it as “scurrilous”. The It was significant that the hon. Gentleman should part he quoted said that comment on a leaflet circulated by the Labour party in “it is a bit worrying that the Conservatives, should they get my constituency, as I have seen a leaflet circulated by elected, are looking to scrap a number of Defence Projects.”—[Official the Conservative party that makes the identical point—that Report, 1 March 2010; Vol. 506, c. 703-09.] the Conservatives would carry out a strategic defence He did not quote the editorial in the Lancashire Evening review and then decide which programmes were to go Post of 17 September 2009 that said: ahead. That is the Conservative position. I am sure the “David Cameron has fuelled fears that a Conservative government hon. Gentleman wishes he could do more. will ditch crucial defence contracts at the cost of thousands of Lancashire jobs. Mr. Howarth: The hon. Gentleman knows perfectly The Tory leader threw his support behind Shadow Chancellor well that our position is precisely the same as the George Osborne, who sparked outcry from the defence industry Labour party’s. when he pinpointed the £20bn Eurofighter Typhoon project as a potential scheme to cut.” The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence Mr. Howarth: The hon. Gentleman is clearly anticipating (Mr. Quentin Davies): Not at all. much of what I shall say, but I want to put him out of his misery—or rather to disrupt his joy at spreading Mr. Howarth: The Minister, who is shortly to leave false rumours. He has picked up a quotation from the Parliament, says not at all. It is a fact, and I can confirm Lancashire Evening Post. I have a copy of his leaflet. As it. Both parties will undertake a defence review. That 209WH Defence Industry (Lancashire)16 MARCH 2010 Defence Industry (Lancashire) 210WH review will consider all the options and force structures. 11.26 pm That is what the nation requires. That is what the armed forces require. Mark Hunter (Cheadle) (LD): May I say what a pleasure it is to have the opportunity to contribute to this timely debate under your chairmanship, Mr. Streeter? Mr. Gary Streeter (in the Chair): Order. Interventions I congratulate the hon. Member for South Ribble are far too long. (Mr. Borrow) on securing the debate. I pass on the apologies of my hon. Friends the Members for North Mr. Borrow: I shall move on. It has been interesting Devon (Nick Harvey) and for Dunfermline and West to watch the debate about procurement and other such Fife (Willie Rennie), both of whom are unable to be matters over the last few months. The Government have here today. signed contracts for the carriers and work is going As will become obvious, I do not share the analysis ahead with them. The shadow Defence Minister made proposed by the hon. Member for South Ribble. However, it clear to conveners from the defence industry that the both of us hold firm on the importance of Lancashire break clause would be considered on day one, which and the north-west of England as a prime region for questions the Tory commitment to the carriers. If the defence. Many thousands of families across the region Conservatives have no commitment to the carriers, it is have given unstintingly of their efforts, being involved difficult to see how they can be committed to the F-35. in iconic defence industry products such as aircraft, which are of particular interest to him and me, and Mr. Howarth: The hon. Gentleman continues to make others. It will a sad day if the historic importance of such observations. In a written answer, the Secretary of Lancashire and the wider north-west is forgotten. I State for Defence said: hope that that never happens under any Government. “We have been very clear since the publication of the Defence I shall not indulge in internecine warfare about who Green Paper that everything other than Trident is included in the said what in which leaflet. I am at a disadvantage in that Strategic Defence Review.”—[Official Report, 8 March 2010; I do not have copies of the said periodicals with me. Vol. 507, c. 20W.] That may be some relief to you, Mr. Streeter. However, If there were to be another Labour Government, they I shall speak on the subject of the debate and put a would review all programmes except the Trident successor, number of questions to the Minister. just as the Conservatives would do. Our positions are I was asked to speak for my party today as a Member identical. I hope the hon. Gentleman will explain that whose constituency is in Cheshire—it is just over the fact to his constituents. border from Lancashire—and who represents the many hundreds of highly trained skilled engineers and technicians Mr. Borrow: I recall that just before Christmas, at a who work at the BAE Systems Woodford site and who meeting of the Select Committee on Defence, I asked live in my constituency. As the hon. Member for South my hon. Friend the Minister about the Government’s Ribble said, like many other sites, Woodford has a commitment to the F-35 joint strike fighter. My hon. proud history, involving the RAF and the very best of Friend told the Committee that the Government would British engineering skills. purchase 140 aircraft. Those skills go back for many generations, to the Lancaster bomber of the second world war, the Vulcan from the cold war, the first Nimrod, the MR2 and the Mr. Quentin Davies: Everything else that my hon. MRA4 programme. I have been fortunate enough to Friend has said is absolutely correct, but I did not say visit that site on many occasions and am well aware of that there would be 140. I said there would be up to 150. the fantastic job done by the whole team, both management In practice, 140 is pretty close but the formulation is and unions. The expertise of our defence sectors workers important. is world-renowned, and it is on their behalf, as well as on behalf of my party, that I speak today. Mr. Borrow: Indeed, and we have already signed a Today’s debate is of interest to not just those fortunate contract for three aircraft in order to do evaluation enough to live in Lancashire, but the general public as a trials. whole. The Defence Analytical Services Agency puts I asked a similar question of my right hon. Friend the total nationwide employment in the industry at around Secretary of State. He made it clear that he saw the 300,000. Direct employment stands at 155,000, with a Typhoon and the F-35 as the two fast jets at the core of further 145,000 jobs in the supply chain. In total, the our military capability, and that he was not looking to defence industry accounts for 10 per cent. of manufacturing get rid of them or to buy anyone else’s aircraft. I am jobs in the UK. For every job created in the defence disappointed that the Opposition have not been more industry, about 1.6 jobs are created elsewhere in the specific in their commitment. Their lack of commitment economy. It is estimated that £100 million investment in to the aircraft carriers undermines their commitment to the defence industry would create 1,885 jobs throughout fast jets. the UK economy, 726 of which would be in the defence If I was an employee of BAE Systems in Lancashire, industry. For that very reason, there are more small and I would be concerned about my job. I would be inclined medium-sized enterprises in the UK defence industry to stick with a party that has shown a commitment to than in the French, German, Italian and Spanish industries the industry by signing contracts for the Typhoon combined. As things stand, more than 65,000 jobs in before Christmas, by starting work on the carriers and the UK are currently supported by defence exports. working hard to ensure that the F-35 programme goes I was delighted to read recently that the Minister, ahead, rather than turning to a party that can give no who is in his usual place today, lavished praise on the such commitment. defence industry in Lancashire, and he was right to do 211WH Defence Industry (Lancashire)16 MARCH 2010 Defence Industry (Lancashire) 212WH

[Mark Hunter] development aircraft to production standard would not be taken forward. Whichever way one tries to wrap up so. I am sure that every Member present today will that decision, it was a body blow to the hundreds of testify that Lancashire has a world-scale, world-class workers still employed at Woodford. The decision was defence industry.The combined turnover of the north-west all the more remarkable given the fact that the RAF had aerospace companies is some £7 billion a year, one third stated that it had an operational requirement for a of the UK’s total aerospace sector, which itself is the further three aircraft. Given that the Government have second largest in the world. The MOD’s own statistics now effectively chosen to buy three American Rivet puts defence spending-dependent employment in the Joint aircraft instead of Nimrods, will the Minister use north-west at 14,000 people, which seems a little on the this opportunity to explain how such a decision sits conservative side. An article in the Financial Times last with the Prime Minister’s declaration of British jobs for year reported that some 1,000 companies employ 60,000 British workers, which now sounds rather hollow in people in the north-west. Perhaps in his response, the Woodford? Minister might like to address that particular issue and Any decision to contract the planes out to the US clear up the confusion regarding the figures. results in not only skilled workers losing their jobs earlier than necessary, but the UK defence industry Mr. Borrow: It is my understanding that BAE Systems losing the military aviation expertise that has been built employs 12,000 people in the north-west and has a up over many years and that is such vital a part of the supply chain of 1,000 companies in the region, which north-west economy. There are many questions about supply it with services and products. exporting jobs and military aviation expertise, not least of which is that—I have put this point directly to the Mark Hunter: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his Minister before—if we are going to use American aircraft intervention, but what I said was that the Financial for intelligence and reconnaissance jobs, which is what Times had reported that some 1,000 companies are such planes are for, who has first claim on the intelligence? employing 60,000 people in the north-west, so there is I understand that we have a close working relationship no dispute between what he and I believe to be the case. with our American allies, but surely only one party has The Northwest Regional Development Agency has first claim on that intelligence. The Government will consistently talked about boosting the aerospace industry. also lose the expertise developed in Woodford and However, despite its excellence and expertise, there is no various other locations that would help future possible doubt—the hon. Gentleman has made the case very productivity, leaving the UK with no option but to eloquently—that Lancashire is suffering from a downturn return to the US time and again for upgrades and in fortunes. Last November, BAE announced plans to maintenance. cut a further 640 jobs, citing a reduction in military Let me make one thing clear, and this echoes points spending on both sides of the Atlantic. Such cuts will that were made earlier. The argument is not one of take the total number of redundancies at the defence protectionism. Our priorities must be to give our armed contractor this year to about 2,300. In Lancashire alone, forces the best equipment, to get value for the taxpayer 205 jobs will be lost at Samlesbury, 170 jobs at Warton and to support a strong defence industry—in that order. and a further 57 jobs will be lost in the Military Air However, the decision is about short-term savings overriding Solutions operations based in Chadderton. Not even long-term defence interests and financial common sense, the Government’s misguided investment in the multi-billion which is why it would be economically advantageous in pound nuclear submarine programme has been enough the long term to have stayed with the Nimrod programme. to save cuts of 5 per cent. in the 4,500-strong work force Let me turn now to the Eurofighter, which is where I at BAE Systems’ naval base in neighbouring Barrow-in- differ from the hon. Gentleman and possibly the hon. Furness in Cumbria. Member for Aldershot (Mr. Howarth). It is our contention Let me reinforce the point of difference that we have that the project represents very little financial sense. I heard expressed from the two Front Benches today. It is realise that such a remark will cause a great deal of certainly our contention that it is quite erroneous for consternation, not least to the hon. Member for South the Government not to have included the future of the Ribble. It is accurate and fair to say that the programme Trident nuclear submarine programme in their strategic has been beset by cost overruns, delays, technical problems defence review. It seems wholly ridiculous that such a and it is now an expensive and, as some might say, an review, which is looking at all aspects of defence unnecessary and inappropriate capability. The Eurofighter spending—it is doing that because of the state of the is considered by many people to be a damning indictment economy and because no party can afford to do everything of this and previous Governments’ military priorities, that it would like to do—is not considering that single and is viewed as an anachronistic piece of cold war kit biggest issue. that serves no purpose in the modern world. Instead of Let me say a few words about the Woodford plan, fighting the wars of the past, the Government should be because not only is it a region that I represent, but its looking to utilise the skills base of those employed in problems epitomise the very issues that the hon. Gentleman the Eurofighter project to invest in technology such as referred to from his constituency’s perspective. Last UAVs, to which the hon. Gentleman referred, that September, BAE confirmed that it would close the site could help save lives in Afghanistan, where we have in Woodford in 2012 with the loss of the remaining troops on the front line, putting their lives at risk every jobs—well under 1,000—as a result of the conclusion of day of the week right now. the Nimrod project. To be fair to the Minister, he visited Air Vice-Marshal Martin Routledge, the outgoing the plant just before the announcement. He had a look chief of staff for strategy, policy and plans at RAF HQ around and talked to the people directly involved. He Air Command, has been vocal in his belief that the made it clear that the option to convert three further MOD and the RAF have not invested enough in this 213WH Defence Industry (Lancashire)16 MARCH 2010 Defence Industry (Lancashire) 214WH so-called agile technology. UAVS, such as the Reaper, gather that the hon. Member for South Ribble was also can be used to monitor routes commonly used by unable to take part in the debate on defence in the main troops to see if improvised explosive devices or mines Chamber yesterday, so I suspect that the principal purpose are being planted by insurgents. I am sure that the of this debate is to allow him to put something on the Minister will confirm that some drones are already record, which he can then distribute around his constituency, being used for that purpose, but the simple fact remains as something of a panic measure, before the general that there are not enough UAVs to handle all the election, in which, according to the opinion polls, he is operational demands. It is our view that the Government likely to lose his seat. should embrace that technology, and when they finally I will perhaps return to the polemics of the issue in a do so, I am convinced that Lancashire and the wider moment, but I think that there are a number of things north-west region have the workers with the necessary on which the hon. Gentleman and I agree. He was right expertise and determination to get it to the front line. to mention that we are both officers of the all-party Members will be all too well aware today that the aerospace group, which is promoted by the Air League, defence industry faces a great deal of pain as the an excellent organisation promoting air-mindedness economic downturn makes its inevitable impact on throughout the kingdom; it has just celebrated its centenary. defence spending. However, Members should also Britain has excelled in probably the most important remember that the MOD had saddled itself with massive industry of the 20th century—an industry in which we debt even before the current downturn had begun to continue to be world leaders. take shape. Bernard Grey’s report last October described I share with the hon. Gentleman a concern about the the MOD’s procurement policies as “incompetent” and implications of the joint strike fighter in respect of the revealed a disparity of about £35 billion between our exchange of intellectual property with the United States. commitments and the resources that are available to It is absolutely imperative that the United States understands fulfil them. that if we do not have operational sovereignty over that We know that about £2.5 billion is wasted every year aircraft, the project clearly must be reviewed. We, as a on equipment projects. That is Labour’s legacy—a budget sovereign state, cannot find ourselves in a situation that is out of control and a programme that is years late. where we cannot operate that aircraft in a sovereign It is also a legacy that has caused a great deal of fashion. So I make wholly common cause with him on uncertainty among the thousands of people working in that issue. the defence industry in Lancashire and elsewhere. The hon. Gentleman may remember that a few years Given the tight financial shackles that the MOD will ago, in about 2006, I addressed a conference in Washington, inevitably be operating under in the foreseeable future, where I spelled out in words of one syllable how we in it is vital that the Government learn the lessons from the United Kingdom, having contributed so much in past procurement blunders. We have a situation now support of the United States, expect some reciprocity where some aircraft, such as the Eurofighter, are built from the US. Before I went to that conference, I had a with parts that are made all over Europe and then briefing with Lord Drayson, a man for whom the shipped somewhere else to be put together, purely as a industry has a high regard, as do I. Lord Drayson and I result of political deals. A company such as BAE Systems, discussed the matter, and again we were completely ad which still employs thousands of people in the north-west idem—that means “of the same mind”, for those who region, would do better in a more commercial atmosphere have perhaps forgotten their Latin—on it. So I am that had less political horse-trading. Therefore, I hope happy to make common cause with the hon. Gentleman. that the Minister will at least agree with my final point, which is that British industry has nothing to fear from a Mr. Borrow: On that point, does the hon. Gentleman more business-led approach to military procurement. agree that a lot of progress has been made on the transfer of intellectual property, and that it is important 11.41 am that the UK continues to deliver its side of the bargain and does nothing that could allow Members of Congress Mr. Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con): It is customary to seek to reopen the deal and start putting obstructions on these occasions to congratulate the hon. Member in the way of the transfer of intellectual property in the who secured the debate, and I warmly congratulate the future? I say that because the project is going ahead in hon. Member for South Ribble (Mr. Borrow) on having stages. Until now, agreement has been reached stage by done so. It is somewhat disappointing that so few stage; the intellectual property that has been needed has Members from the north-west were able to join us on been transferred, and things have gone smoothly. The this occasion to celebrate a British success story, because hon. Gentleman will recall that we had a number of there is no doubt that Lancashire and the aerospace arguments, and discussions with various politicians, in industry are a continuing success story of which the Washington to get the process started. A large number whole nation should be proud. of British MPs have visited Washington over a long However, I fear that the hon. Gentleman had another period and have engaged in discussions, which were motive in securing this debate. Indeed, he alluded to it, successful. If we are not careful, however, there is a risk and I intervened on him to ensure that those who read that the process could unravel. reports of these proceedings understand precisely where he is coming from. It was unfortunate that he was not Mr. Howarth: I accept what the hon. Gentleman says, able to take part in the debate on defence in the main but the United Kingdom needs to take a very robust Chamber on 1 March, although I see that he has stand with the United States. The relationship between assiduously studied the remarks made in that debate by the United States and the United Kingdom is in need of my hon. Friend the Member for Woodspring (Dr. Fox), a bit of tender loving care. There have been a number of the shadow Secretary of State for Defence, and by me. I issues on both sides of the Atlantic that have been 215WH Defence Industry (Lancashire)16 MARCH 2010 Defence Industry (Lancashire) 216WH

[Mr. Gerald Howarth] has in its mind the visage of that heroic Welsh Guardsman, who survived an attack on the Sir Galahad in Bluff unhelpful to our relationship, not least the recent withdrawal Cove during the Falklands campaign. That attack was by EADS of its tanker proposal for the United States perpetrated by an insignificant, but on this occasion air force, in the light of its belief that the entire programme highly effective, Argentine aeroplane. Those who do not has been re-jigged to fit the Boeing tender. have command of the skies put their land forces at risk I do not believe that the United States understands of annihilation. That is why air power is vital. anything other than the most robust language. Our It is important that this nation should understand constituents across this realm believe that we in Parliament that the Typhoon is not a cold war relic or, as the hon. have done our bit in supporting the United States; Member for Cheadle described it, an anachronistic indeed, some of our constituents believe that we have piece of kit that serves no useful purpose. That is a gone too far in supporting the United States, particularly fundamental misunderstanding. If that is Liberal policy, over the Iraq war. The United States must understand the nation needs to know about it. The Typhoon is a that if our relationship with it means anything, it has to superb aeroplane, acknowledged by the Americans as ensure that we are able to reassure ourselves, and those a class act, in terms of air superiority. We must have it. whom we represent, that we remain a sovereign nation, It is not one that I would delete from my armoury. capable of operating equipment made jointly by ourselves and the United States in a sovereign fashion. Mr. Borrow: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that One should not go into the negotiations with the there are legitimate concerns that the strategic defence United States in a frame of mind that is anything other review might end up listening to those who have learned than robust. If anybody is any doubt of the merit of our their lessons from the conflicts of only the past 10 years, having that frame of mind, I remind them of the which might result in us drawing up a military system exchange between our former Prime Minister, Baroness based on the needs of those past 10 years, rather than Thatcher, and the then US President, Ronald Reagan, on what could be needed in the next 20 or 30 years? Fast when he invaded Grenada, a member of the jets, aircraft carriers and other big bits of kit that have Commonwealth, without first consulting the United not been needed much in the past 10 years may well be Kingdom. She unleashed a salvo of weaponry, the like needed in the uncertain future that we face. of which had not been heard in the Oval Office for many a long year. The result was not that we impaired Mr. Howarth: The hon. Gentleman is right. That is our position with the United States; instead, we deservedly the predicament facing whoever forms the next won its respect for that approach. Such an approach Government; obviously, I hope that it will be the may be required again. So I make common cause with Conservative party. I have no doubt that we will face the hon. Member for South Ribble on the issue of immense challenges in determining the force structures relations with the United States. that are required to meet not only today’s immediate threats but the potential threats of the future. Obviously, I also praise the role of BAE Systems, which is one of the principal employers in Lancashire, We politicians must not concentrate simply on the as the hon. Gentleman said, with 12,000 employees here and now. Although we may accept the importance there—7,000 at Warton and 5,000 at Samlesbury. Those of winning in Afghanistan, it is not the be-all and employees have some of the most high-tech jobs in the end-all. It is our duty as politicians to look to the future, land, involving the highest modern skills, in an area to protect the people whom we represent and to protect where Britain leads the world. this nation and its interests around the world. I see no scenario in which air power can be confined simply to When I visited one BAE Systems site recently, it was unmanned aerial vehicles loitering somewhere in the interesting to see the degree to which industry has stratosphere. become much more agile in responding to the needs of the defence world, including, obviously, the needs Mark Hunter: The hon. Gentleman drew attention to of Her Majesty’s Government. The hon. Gentleman some of my earlier remarks. I was not making a point singled out the unmanned aerial vehicles that are being about defence aviation generally; I was talking specifically developed by BAE. There is no doubt that the Mantis about the Eurofighter, as the record will show. However, is an example of the agility of which I have spoken. I certainly stand by my remarks. From inception to first flight, the project took less than The hon. Gentleman says that politicians must look 18 months. That is the way that the industry needs to beyond the here and now, but does he not accept that all go. One aim of the defence review will be to ensure that politicians have a duty to provide leadership in the we create systems to allow within Government the same debate about reductions in public spending? Defence is agility that the industry is beginning to show. a major spending area. I understand that he and his I share an anxiety with the hon. Gentleman: I am colleagues have ruled out Trident from the strategic nervous about the extent to which we in this country defence review, as have the Government. What potential accept that we will not again build a manned aircraft. savings does he think we ought to be considering? The hon. Member for Cheadle (Mark Hunter) was Nobody is suggesting that we need to scrap the whole of critical of the Typhoon, as I prefer to call it; it seems a military aviation—I was talking specifically about the better name than the one that he used. The Typhoon is Eurofighter—but at least I have offered specific suggestions a state-of-the-art air superiority fighter. Anyone who on how money can be saved. He and his party have thinks that this country can do without an air superiority offered nothing but vagueness on the matter. fighter has no understanding of modern warfare. It just so happens that we have not faced an air threat in recent Mr. Howarth: If the hon. Gentleman thinks that he conflicts. I remind those who do not think that air can save money by scrapping the Typhoon, he has failed power is important of Simon Weston. The entire nation completely to understand the argument I was deploying 217WH Defence Industry (Lancashire)16 MARCH 2010 Defence Industry (Lancashire) 218WH a few minutes ago: we require an air superiority fighter, The hon. Member for Cheadle mentioned Rivet Joint, which is precisely what the Typhoon is. It is also a which is a technical issue and a classified area of defence top-class aircraft. It is not an also-ran in the international activity.Like the hon. Gentleman, I am extremely concerned stakes of air superiority fighters. I will address the hon. about the implications of the Government’s moving Gentleman’s point about the economy later, because it down the route of the Rivet Joint proposal. I understand is a good one. the concept of taking three existing United States The hon. Member for South Ribble spoke exclusively aeroplanes—old though they are—rather than developing about his constituency, but the hon. Member for Cheadle the Nimrod, which has been one of the least successful widened the debate to Lancashire, albeit from a vantage programmes in the BAE stable. My view on that is well point in Cheshire. I hope in passing that he will notice known. It has been a terrible chapter of mismanagement my lapel badge. It is a Woodford badge, for it is a over a long period. Vulcan bomber. I am a trustee of the only flying Vulcan The Rivet Joint position is worse than the hon. bomber in the world, XH558, and I am pleased to say Member for Cheadle suggests. He asked who gets first that we have just raised £1 million to ensure that we can call on the intelligence. As the Minister knows, we display it on the air show circuit this summer, subject to provide intelligence; we are contributors and exchangers, a modification being made. Woodford has played a not takers of US intelligence, because we have something noble part in the history of Britain’s aerospace industry, to contribute. Under his proposals, not only will there not least with the phenomenal Lancaster bomber and be a three-year capability gap when we will have no such the Avro Vulcan, both designed by Roy Chadwick. As ability to obtain intelligence for ourselves, but, even Members will know, only 12 years separated the first more critically, we will have nothing to contribute. That flights of those two aircraft. will result in the United States once again being the only More generally, the hon. Member for Cheadle mentioned supplier and will put us in the position of supplicant. some points about employment. Defence Analytical That is a serious matter. For obvious reasons, I do not Services and Advice, known in the trade as DASA, encourage the Minister to address the fundamentals estimates UK regional direct employment in the north-west underlying it, but he must own up and say why the dependent on Ministry of Defence spending to be about capability gap will exist in such a vital area, where we 14,000. I suspect that he is right and that it is an and the United States enjoy a special relationship in the underestimate. Virtually all the 12,000 jobs at BAE in exchange of intelligence. Warton are aerospace-related, so I imagine that taking I shall conclude my remarks fairly soon, but I make the supply chain into account, there are substantially no apology for returning to some of the more partisan more than 14,000. points made by the hon. Member for South Ribble. He Indeed, I understand that 19,000 people are directly raised issues that he wants to promote around his employed in the region. The local industry represents constituency during the general election campaign. I the largest single concentration of aerospace employment understand why Labour and its trade union paymasters and production in the UK and has long been recognised want to misrepresent Conservative policy. It is rather as a global centre of excellence. Aerospace accounts for sad given the common ground that the hon. Gentleman 89 per cent. of all local high-tech jobs in the north-west and I have shared on these issues in the past, but it is sub-region and as the hon. Member for Cheadle said, it predictable. contributes no less than £7 billion a year to the local The headline in the leaflet—“Vote Conservative and economy. We should not forget Rolls-Royce at destroy the defence industry”—is absolutely outrageous. Barnoldswick. Rolls-Royce, the world’s premier aero-engine The hon. Gentleman owes an apology not only to the company, is at the leading edge of technology and Conservative party, but to his constituents, whom he contributes to that important industry in Lancashire. seems determined to frighten the life out of. The leaflet states: More than 800 aerospace companies are represented by the North West Aerospace Alliance, the flagship “How much of this would be stopped if the Tories had their organisation representing companies and others involved way?” in the north-west aerospace cluster. It is one of eight As I tried to point out to him, we have made it clear that such alliances around the country. As the hon. Member we will have a defence review. There is no difference for South Ribble said, my constituency includes between my party and his on that issue. If one programme Farnborough, where the Farnborough Aerospace after another is exempted from the review, there is no Consortium is based. I met the consortium the other point in having a review. day, and we discussed how successful such alliances are proving in promoting some of the most highly skilled Mark Hunter: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? technology jobs in the United Kingdom. That is where I hope a large part of our future prosperity will lie now Mr. Howarth: No, because I anticipate that the hon. that the bubble of the financial services business has Gentleman wants to ask why we have excluded Trident. well and truly burst. We have excluded it for the very good reason that we believe that decisions have to be taken, unlike his party, [MR.ROBERT KEY in the Chair] which thinks that a Trident successor can be magicked I welcome you to the Chair, Mr. Key. If you will up in a few seconds. It cannot be; it is a long-term forgive a little aside, I note that you are a keen follower programme and a strategic issue. We have made up our of defence matters. I thank you for all that you have minds, as indeed have the Government. done to promote defence during your time in the House To be fair, the hon. Member for South Ribble pointed of Commons. It has been appreciated by us all. You out that the Labour and Conservative parties share have been a stalwart and sometimes outspoken proponent common ground on the need to replace the independent of the defence industry. Trident nuclear deterrent. To exclude other programmes 219WH Defence Industry (Lancashire)16 MARCH 2010 Defence Industry (Lancashire) 220WH

[Mr. Gerald Howarth] The hon. Member for South Ribble singled out a quotation from the Lancashire Evening Post in the would be to undermine the whole purpose of the strategic leaflet he referred to. To ensure greater accuracy, I have defence review. There has not been such a review since obtained a copy of the letter that I sent to the industry 1998. When I first broached the idea, I thought that on 16 September. It stated that the shadow Chancellor’s senior military commanders would object and say that comments it would mean more cuts. However, they said that we “were not part of his prepared speech but made in a Q&A session need a defence review because there is a new world at a Spectator conference, when George was asked if the Conservatives order that requires us to step back and look at the big felt able to undertake an SDR whilst in Opposition. Naturally, he picture. We need to consider what threats we face, and, highlighted the severely limited access which the Opposition has therefore, what force structures we require and what to MoD documents and accounts without which an SDR cannot be undertaken. When pressed on the material to which access equipment we require to support them. would be required George mentioned a number of factors, including As you were not here earlier, Mr. Key, perhaps I can commercial procurement contracts, and listed a number of repeat what the Secretary of State said in a written programmes as examples.” answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Woodspring My hon. Friend did not single out any programme to be as recently as 8 March: axed. I put that firmly on the record. “We have been very clear since the publication of the Defence This great industry is one of Britain’s huge success Green Paper that everything other than Trident is included in the stories. Lancashire, along with other parts of the country, Strategic Defence Review. But unless the review takes us in a very has a proud tradition of pre-eminence in the aerospace radical new direction, aircraft carriers are likely to remain critical industry. We all wish those involved in the industry in elements of our force structure.”—[Official Report, 8 March 2010; Vol. 507, c. 20W.] the area continuing success not only in delivering high quality kit for our armed forces, but in contributing to That is Labour’s position. The Conservative position the defence of these islands and the United Kingdom’s was stated on 1 March: wider interests around the world. “We have always made very clear our arguments about seaborne As the hon. Member for Cheadle rightly said—I said air power projection. It would be perfectly reasonable to expect I would come back to this point—we face an economic the carrier programme to continue under another Government, unless there were strong reasons in a strategic defence review for it sandstorm as a result of the Prime Minister’s complete not to.”—[Official Report, 1 March 2010; Vol. 506, c. 673.] and abject mismanagement of the economy, both in his current role and as Chancellor of the Exchequer. He The position is identical. If the hon. Member for South was not the golden boy of the Treasury; his judgment Ribble persists in spreading the lie that the Conservative resulted in our selling off the gold reserves at rock-bottom party has a different position from his party, he will do prices, which led to the destruction of the pensions a disfavour to himself and to those he claims to speak industry. The dreams of millions of our fellow citizens up for, namely the highly skilled employees of the were destroyed in the process. aerospace industry on whom our armed forces depend. I urge him not to do so. The Prime Minister has never properly funded the armed forces to do the job that is required of them, and I make it clear that the Conservative party is committed there is no doubt that the incoming Government will be to a vibrant defence industrial base. I put on the record faced with an economic wasteland that he created. He what my hon. Friend the Member for Woodspring said inherited a strong economy from my right hon. and on 8 February in a speech at the Royal United Services learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), Institute: but he destroyed it and saddled this nation with debt. “In order to ensure we are able to respond to rapidly changing Some very hard decisions will have to be made, but as I threats we must have a vibrant defence industrial base. Without it have said, the first duty of Government is the defence of we would have no operational sovereignty—thereby threatening the realm. We face a very uncertain and volatile world our national sovereignty.” and this is no time to be receding. If this country wishes Our position could not be clearer. We are not believers to maintain its role in the world, ways have to be found in buying off the shelf, which would mean buying to ensure that we can continue to bring our national American. As I said to the Minister, that would mean influence to bear on the world stage, because I think we ceasing to be a partner and becoming a supplicant. have something to contribute as a nation. There is common ground in wanting a vibrant defence industrial base in the United Kingdom. 12.11 pm In the launch book for the new trade organisation, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence AeroSpace Defence Security, which replaced the Society (Mr. Quentin Davies): May I begin by saying that if I do of British Aerospace Companies and the Defence not agree with the hon. Member for Aldershot Manufacturers Association, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Howarth) very much during my remarks—and I stated: may well agree with him very little—I thoroughly agree “I am delighted to welcome the arrival of ADS to combine the with his comments about you, Mr. Key? Your long and interests of the Aerospace, Defence and Security sectors. Together, distinguished record in the House means that all hon. these industries harness some of the best of the nation’s high-tech Members have a universal respect for your knowledge skills to develop world-leading technologies for military and civil about, contribution to and judgment on defence matters, applications. I am committed to the creation of a vibrant and diversified British economy where ADS member companies can which has been displayed over the years both on the flourish, continuing their proud record of contributing to Britain’s Front and Back Benches, and it could not be more prosperity and its security, and my colleagues join me in wishing appropriate that you are presiding over this debate. you every possible success.” I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South I do not think there is anything between the parties on Ribble (Mr. Borrow) on securing the debate and on what they want to do. something even more important than that: he has done 221WH Defence Industry (Lancashire)16 MARCH 2010 Defence Industry (Lancashire) 222WH a good job not only as a powerful advocate for his In my hon. Friend’s remarks, he has represented well constituents and Lancashire, but for the country as a not just his constituents, but all the people of the whole. He has put his finger on something of enormous north-west and all of those involved in aerospace. It is importance, which I do not think has yet been properly certainly true that there is a remarkable concentration appreciated in this country: Tory plans to cancel the of very impressive industrial assets in that area. I have carrier programme would be a disaster not only for the visited most of them. There is Sealand on the Welsh shipbuilding industry—on the Clyde and the Tyne, in border in the south-west. That Defence Support Group Portsmouth and elsewhere—and for the national defence base repairs avionics and other equipment for the British capability, but for the aerospace industry, because if we armed forces and does an extremely good job. Moving do not have carriers, we will not be purchasing aircraft towards the Manchester area, I have also been to to fly off them. Broughton, where EADS produces wings for the Airbus and is involved in world-leading technology. Mr. Gerald Howarth: May I make it absolutely clear Moving to the south of Manchester, in the constituency to the Minister that he is completely wrong? It is of the hon. Member for Cheadle (Mark Hunter), there terminological inexactitude to say that we have plans to is Woodford, which he mentioned. I deeply regret that cancel the carrier. I have set out our position on the the Woodford site is now closing. I am afraid that these carrier, which, if he reads his own Secretary of State’s things happen in life. At the end of large programmes, written answers, he will see is identical to his position. changes will obviously be made. I deeply regret the decision to close Woodford rather than somewhere else, Mr. Davies: Our position is certainly not identical to but that decision was, of course, made by BAE Systems. the hon. Gentleman’s position. There is a gulf about the It was not in any way made by the British Government. size of the Grand Canyon between the Government’s I certainly hope and pray that many of the people with policies and the Toryparty’s plans on the carrier programme. those remarkable skills who have been doing so well The Tory party regard the strategic defence review as a building the MRA4 and previous aircraft will find new kind of excuse to conceal their plans to make subsequent opportunities for their skills in the expanding work defence cuts; but, in fact, their plans for the carriers are force in Warton, Samlesbury or elsewhere. There will be no longer a secret. great prospects, particularly because of the Typhoon programmes—I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman The hon. Member for Woodspring (Dr. Fox), the disparaged those—and the JSF, which clearly would Conservative defence spokesman, has let the cat out of not be safe in the hands of a Conservative Administration. the bag—it is a very large, ugly cat, and it is right out of I hope we will not have a Liberal or a Conservative the bag. His remarks the other day to the convenors Administration, and that those businesses and industries from the Clyde were clear. He said that in the first days will continue to thrive and provide employment in the of a Tory Government, if there were such a thing, he future, as in the past, for the very highly skilled workers would be looking at the break clauses in the carrier and engineers who are so vital to the aerospace industry. contract. That is nothing to do with the SDR. The hon. Member for Aldershot kept talking about the SDR and Moving further north, part of the Typhoon—the the fact that the Tories would not make any cuts until it fuselage—is being built in Samlesbury and shipped to had been completed. However, that is not at all the Warton to be assembled. Moreover, important parts of message that the hon. Member for Woodspring has the F-35—the JSF—are currently being made. A few given to the House and the nation by the comments he weeks ago, I saw those parts—the tailfins and the back made to the convenors the other day. It is clear that, in of the fuselage—on the assembly line at Samlesbury. the first few days of a Conservative Administration, he Those parts were then shipped to Fort Worth, Texas, intends to cancel those carriers right away. That would where they were assembled on to the aircraft. The be a disaster. reason why BAES has secured that important work share in the project is that, largely as a result of the My hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble has Typhoon, it has achieved engineering tolerances in pointed out—it was very necessary to do so—that such automated machining that are greatly superior to those a policy would also be a disaster for the aerospace achieved in the United States. The F-22 had to be industry. People in Lancashire may well feel that they largely machined manually, because the Americans could have nothing to do with the shipbuilding industry, not achieve the high tolerances on an automatic line which is correct, but they very much have something to that are required for aircraft subjected to those kinds of do with the aerospace industry. That industry provides strains and stresses. BAE Systems has solved those an important part of the joint strike fighter F-35 engineering problems and is making that vital contribution programme, which is likely to cost $250 billion—or to the F-35 programme. That is a good example of the perhaps a little more—and involve some 3,000 or 4,000 synergy that exists between aircraft programmes, and it aircraft. The contribution of this country’s industry to has certainly incorporated the remarkable skills of people that programme will certainly be not less than 10 per in Samlesbury. cent. and could as much as 15 per cent. We are talking about between $25 billion and $40 billion-worth of Then there is Warton, which, in addition to assembling exports for British defence industries. That is an enormously the Typhoon, is the main locus for work on the Mantis important economic factor for British manufacturing, and Taranis programmes, which are enormously important and it is disproportionately important in the north-west, for the future, as was righty said by my hon. Friend the where so many of our aerospace and aerospace-related Member for South Ribble. They are beginning to employ industries are located. Before people vote—whenever in a big way, including many of the aerodynamicists that is over the next months—it is important that they and aeronautical engineers who up until now have been take into account the implications of Tory party plans employed by the manned combat aircraft, particularly on the carriers. the Typhoon and the JSF F-35 programmes. 223WH Defence Industry (Lancashire)16 MARCH 2010 Defence Industry (Lancashire) 224WH

[Mr. Quentin Davies] far from it. I would not want to decide on whether to order further Typhoon aircraft until we have the results I was in Preston, which is further north in Lancashire, of SDR. That does not mean for one second that there several days ago at the opening of the new office of the is the slightest chance under a Labour Government of North West Aerospace Alliance, which has been referred going back on the existing commitment on Typhoon to already and does a superb job. I must tell the hon. tranche 3, or indeed anything else. We have no intention Member for Aldershot that there is considerable concern of doing so, and I make that statement absolutely among the people I met there about any future Conservative advisedly and clearly. Government. Indeed, there was much concern about We have also recently heard good news on the A400M the Conservatives’ entirely nihilistic intention to destroy programme. In Berlin, we were able to reach agreement the regional development agencies, which are doing an on the terms and conditions for the renegotiation of excellent job across the country—the Northwest Regional that programme. We will be securing 22 of those aircraft, Development Agency clearly has the respect of management which is an important capability for the RAF, as the and unions throughout the region—so their abolition aircraft will have a greater capability than our existing would be extraordinary negative thing for the Conservatives Hercules aircraft—the C-130Ks and C-130Js—which to contemplate. I hope that they will not have the carry about 20 tonnes. The A400M will carry more than opportunity to do anything about it. 30 tonnes and so will carry the new generation of heavy Further north in the region, BAE Systems has its armoured vehicles, including the prospective Scout vehicle, submarine-building capability at Barrow-in-Furness, which the Mastiff and the Warrior. It will have a strategic employs around 4,500 people. It is true, as the hon. capability and will be able to do some of the work Member for Cheadle said, that some of them are facing currently undertaken by our C-17s. Of course, we ordered redundancy, but other people are being taken on, so on another C-17 recently and will be taking delivery of a net basis, I am not sure that the work force there are that soon as well. falling. It is inevitable in the course of a programme The A400M programme will also create thousands of that the mix of skills required will change and that jobs in the north-west for many years to come, and I changes in the work force will be needed, but people are trust that that programme will not end with the purchases certainly being employed at the same time as others are of the partner nations. I believe that that will be a great being made redundant voluntarily. That superb national commercial success, certainly after production of the asset is one of the few loci, if I may use a Latin C-17 is ceased, which might happen as early as next term—the hon. Member for Aldershot was allowed year. I look forward to many export orders and to the to—for the building of nuclear-powered submarines in aviation and aerospace industry in the north-west having the world. Only we, the French, the Americans and the many continuing orders for that programme. Russians currently have that capability. The news until now for the north-west, and for the Mr. Gerald Howarth: I know that the wings are being wider defence industry, has been pretty good, and there made at Filton, but I am not aware of any other major is no question but that it will continue to be so under a components of the A400M being made in the north-west. Labour Government. Among the programmes that we What other components will be made there? are all proud of, and on which I have spent much of my time over the past two years, is the Typhoon. I was able Mr. Davies: The major sections are being made at to announce the successful negotiation of the tranche 3 Filton, as the hon. Gentleman says, but I can assure arrangements last summer, and those aircraft will keep him that there are other subcontractors and suppliers in BAE Systems fully occupied for the next five years. the north-west for components for that programme. I Contrary to what the hon. Member for Cheadle said, learnt that when I attended the function at Preston to there are no delays or cost overruns whatever in tranche 2 which I referred earlier. or tranche 3, so that is pure imagination on his part. I In the few minutes remaining, I will deal with some of am sorry that the Liberal Democrats are so ill-informed the extraordinary illusions that I am afraid both the on such matters. Liberal and Tory parties appear to have on important defence matters. With regard to the Helix programme, Mr. Gerald Howarth: That is of great interest to which was mentioned by both spokesmen, I of course people in Lancashire and, indeed, in the country generally, regret that we were unable to use the MRA4 as a so would the Minister tell us what stage negotiations are platform for continuing signals intelligence capability. at for tranche 3B and whether he has made up his mind Frankly, however, after I wrote to BAE Systems on that on that yet? matter, it made it clear that it could not deliver the capability in the time available, which was by 2016. Mr. Davies: We proceeded with tranche 3 last summer, Therefore, BAE Systems wrote itself out of consideration and we are purchasing the aircraft for which we currently for that. Apart from everything else, it would certainly see an immediate requirement. I do not exclude the not have been a risk-free approach to delivering that possibility of purchasing more Typhoon fighters in capability, because it would have required BAE Systems future at all, but equally I am not prepared to commit to engineer a new mission system and an entirely new to that. We must ensure that we commission the number airframe. of aircraft that we need for the purposes we foresee. The strategic defence review will be a major informant of Mark Hunter: Will the Minister give way? our future needs. The Government see the SDR as necessary at present for guidance on future decisions, as Mr. Davies: I will not give way, because I am coming we have not had one for a long time. It will not be used to the end of my time. That would have been a risky as an excuse to cancel existing programmes and projects— operation. I have to tell the hon. Member for Aldershot 225WH Defence Industry (Lancashire) 16 MARCH 2010 226WH that the arrangement that we have with the Americans NHS (Wellingborough) is one that we will most certainly have in the intermediate period, starting rapidly, I trust, with full access to all the 12.30 pm data. Subsequently, we will have British crew on those aircraft from the beginning, and when we take over Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): It is a great those aircraft ourselves, we will deliver the data ourselves pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Key. I and pass it on to the Americans, as we do at the thank Mr. Speaker for granting me this debate on NHS moment. We will determine the mission programme facilities in Wellingborough, which is one of the greatest entirely—no doubt, after listening to any suggestions concerns of my constituents. from our allies—and pass on the output, as we do I am delighted to welcome the Under-Secretary of currently. The difference is that we will have a much State for Health, the hon. Member for Brentford and more capable mission system than we have at present. Isleworth (Ann Keen). She is widely and correctly regarded The hon. Member for Aldershot rightly said that I as one of the Government’s best Ministers, not only should not go into more details than that, and I will because of her genuine concern for health matters but not, but I am happy to say that that new mission system because of her ability to get things done. I am delighted will be a great deal more capable. that she is here, as she has in-depth knowledge of the The hon. Member for Cheadle said that we did not matter that I shall discuss in detail. I am particularly have enough UAVs, which I though was an extraordinary grateful to her because I know that yesterday she responded comment, as we ordered some more Reapers—I cannot to an Adjournment debate, and that she had just been say how many we have in theatre—in December, if I travelling all around the north-west. Rather cheekily, I recall correctly, so we are increasing the number of put in a special request for this Department of Health UAVsthat we have in theatre. We are expecting Watchkeeper Minister, so I appreciate her coming today. to come into service within the next year, and that, as a When I applied for this debate, I intended to discuss a core programme, is a major investment. I have no idea wide range of problems that we have with health facilities— where he got the idea that we are not investing in UAVs or, more importantly, the lack of them—in my constituency, and are simply waiting for Taranis and Mantis. That but an individual health case has overtaken what are was another ill-informed comment. otherwise extremely important matters. As I will show later, the constituency case of Zachary Knighton-Smith Mark Hunter: Will the Minister give way? is a matter that just cannot wait; in fact, it is a matter of life or death. Mr. Davies: I am afraid that I cannot give way, as I To touch briefly on the other issues, Wellingborough have less than a minute to go. The debate has been does not have its own hospital with accident and emergency extremely useful and has revealed some extraordinary facilities. The surrounding areas of Corby, Kettering, misunderstandings, to put it politely, on the part of the Northampton, Daventry, Bedford and Milton Keynes Opposition parties on some fundamental facts about all have one or more hospitals, all of which have major defence. It has highlighted the mortal threat posed to or minor accident and emergency facilities. Yet the the aerospace industry in the north-west, to many other Wellingborough constituency and the adjoining area of industries across the country and to our national defence east Northamptonshire do not have a hospital, and, capability by Conservative plans, as we know from the with 52,000 new homes planned for north comments of the hon. Member for Woodspring. Northamptonshire in the next few years, it will be impossible for the existing hospitals to maintain a proper standard of care. More than 90 per cent. of the people who answered my “Listening to Wellingborough and Rushden” survey want a hospital in the Wellingborough and Rushden area. Six thousand people have written to me about the need for a hospital, and last month I presented a petition to the Prime Minister in Downing street. We really must have a hospital in Wellingborough. The Government might correctly ask where the money will come from, but as the Minister will know, Northamptonshire has been the worst-funded primary care trust for years. In fact, according to the Government’s own national capitation formula, they have underfunded it by £175,468,000 since 2003-04. If the PCT had the correct funding, it would have no problem building a hospital in Wellingborough that would serve my constituents and relieve pressure on the acute hospitals in Kettering and Northampton. However, as I do not have enough time to pursue that matter in detail, I simply ask the Minister to take the point on board. Instead, I want to turn to a specific constituency case. Three months ago to this day, I had a debate in this Chamber regarding a constituent of mine, five-year-old Zachary Knighton-Smith, who suffers from neuroblastoma. The treatment that he is currently receiving for this rare 227WH NHS (Wellingborough)16 MARCH 2010 NHS (Wellingborough) 228WH

[Mr. Peter Bone] However, as discussed in my previous debate, a new course of treatment can be given after the initial treatment. cancer gives him only a 20 per cent. chance of survival. Monoclonal antibody therapy increases the survival Let me give the background on this little boy and what rate to around 70 per cent. Normally, a person’s immune has happened since the last time we debated the issue. system makes antibodies to attack germs such as bacteria Neuroblastoma is a rare cancer of the sympathetic or viruses; unfortunately, it will not attack a neuroblastoma nervous system, which is a nerve network that carries because such tumours are part of our bodies. However, messages from the brain throughout the body. The an antibody that attaches to the neuroblastoma can be disease is usually found in young children, and it is the made in a laboratory and then given intravenously to most common cancer among infants. Solid tumours the patient. The antibody will circulate in the bloodstream that take the form of a lump or mass may begin in nerve until it finds and attaches itself to a neuroblastoma cell, tissues in the neck, chest, abdomen, pelvis or, most and then the patient’s own immune system will attack commonly, adrenal gland. They may spread to other and kill the cancerous cell. The treatment has been areas of the body, including bone and bone marrow. carried out in the United States for several years and has proven very successful. Since my last debate, trials I could continue by quoting the statistics—the disease to administer the treatment have been set up in Europe, affects only up to 100 children a year, and the current first in Austria and now in the UK. survival rate with the treatment that Zach is receiving is only 20 per cent. I could describe this horrendous As Dr. Gaze, chairman of the Children’s Cancer and disease in medical terms, but that does nothing to get Leukaemia Group—I know he is watching this debate across the true horror of it. For each child who suffers, closely—stated: the family to whom the child belongs suffer with them “There is now clear evidence, presented at the American Society every step of the way. Zach’s family are a shining of Clinical Oncology meeting last May, and shortly to be published example of how the tremendous will of a family can in the New England Journal of Medicine, that immunotherapy operate. Zach’s cousin Chelsea died in August last year schedules containing monoclonal antibody produce a significantly of the same disease, and they are absolutely determined improved chance of survival in children with high risk not to let that happen to him. Neuroblastoma”. The course of treatment is devastating. Treatment Unfortunately, Zach missed out on taking part in this varies from patient to patient depending on their age, trial by a matter of weeks, due to his falling ill during the stage of the disease, where the disease is in the body that first dose of chemotherapy. As the trial has strict and the molecular biologic and cytogenetic characteristics regulations on whom it lets in, he was unable to take of the tumour. I shall give one example of treatment for part. Half a dozen other children suffering from neuroblastoma—it is, in fact, the treatment that Zach neuroblastoma were also left out of the trial. has been undergoing. Since the previous debate, I have been in regular Since being diagnosed with the disease in February contact with the Minister, and I am grateful for all the 2009, Zach has had a 72-day course of chemotherapy, help that she has given to try to find a solution for spending three days in hospital and then seven days at young Zach. We are left with a couple of options. The home. That significantly reduced the size of the cancerous Government could pay for Zach and the other children tumour. As the doctors were unable to give a 100 per to go to America at a cost of between $250,000 and cent. guarantee that it would all be removed, little Zach $800,000 per patient. With the Government spending underwent surgery to remove it. He had already undergone £120 billion a year on the NHS, that is just a drop in the a horrific experience: he had to have high-dose, intense ocean. Were they to pay for the treatment in the United chemotherapy before Christmas. Unfortunately, he caught States, the NHS could save up to four times that amount an infection at that time and the dose of chemotherapy in the long run. If the children did not receive that had to be postponed until he had recovered sufficiently. treatment and relapsed, the cost of treating them would On 8 February, Zach restarted his high-dose, intense run into hundreds of thousands of pounds. Sending chemotherapy. What do I mean by “high-dose”? The Zach to America will save the NHS money. In addition, chemotherapy, which stopped on 12 February, was given the treatment gives Zach a complete chance of survival: for 24 hours a day. For five straight days, and for every he will grow into a young man and will pay the Government second of each and every day, he underwent chemotherapy. huge amounts of money through the tax system. Just three days after that ordeal, he had a stem-cell transplant, which re-inserted stem cells that had been A further option was suggested by Dr. Brock, a frozen before the chemotherapy was administered. paediatric and adolescent oncologist, and Dr. Gaze. They are the leading consultants on neuroblastoma at Because his immune system was completely shut Great Ormond Street hospital. Their idea was to enable down, Zach was kept in isolation throughout his recovery all the children who were not in the trial to participate in hospital. The risk of infection was high and, despite in a separate study set up alongside the trial, which being isolated, he contracted severe mucositis, which would enable the remaining children—in total no more caused severe blisters of the mouth. He was discharged than six children—to receive the monoclonal antibody from hospital on 6 March and is due for scans next therapy. Any newly diagnosed cases of neuroblastoma week to see if the residual disease in his abdomen has would automatically go on to the original trial. gone. After that scan, he is to undergo radiotherapy, which is the standard treatment for neuroblastoma. Last week Dr. Brock went to Europe to ask SIOPEN, However, he still has only a 20 per cent. chance of the European neuroblastoma research network, to set survival. In short, Zach had chemotherapy followed by up the study. Unfortunately, a study was not agreed surgery, then high-dose chemotherapy followed by stem-cell to. However, in principle, a separate trial has been transplant, and then radiotherapy, but this brave young agreed on that will enable the other children to receive boy still has only a 20 per cent. chance of survival. the treatment, which is exceptionally good news; but 229WH NHS (Wellingborough)16 MARCH 2010 NHS (Wellingborough) 230WH unfortunately, for Zach it will not come early enough. I compliment the hon. Gentleman on his diligent His treatment must commence by mid-April, which is work in relation to Zach. He takes a keen interest in some 30 days from today. health matters and he has ensured that this debate deals Dr. Johann Visser, Zach’s consultant at the Leicester more with the case of his constituent, Zach Knighton- Royal infirmary, where Zach is being treated, has applied Smith, than the original wording of the debate suggested. for an individual funding requirement in the hope that I take this opportunity to pay tribute to NHS staff Northamptonshire primary care trust will pay for Zach across Northamptonshire for their hard work and to go to New York and receive the treatment. Dr. Visser dedication in delivering health care services, which have kindly copied me in on a letter about Zach that he wrote shown massive improvements in waiting times and other to the chief executive of Northamptonshire PCT: areas because of investment. “American colleagues in the Children’s Oncology Group, who Thehon.GentlemanwillbeawarethatNorthamptonshire under the direction of the FDA, are treating patients within a Teaching PCT is being brought closer to its fair share single arm study with immunotherapy but he is unfortunately also not eligible for that. Failing this we contacted the team at of funding. It will receive an above-average increase in Memorial Sloan-Kettering hospital in New York who has a funding allocations of 11.9 per cent. over the two years, Monoclonal antibody therapy (3F8) which is administered with 2009-10 and 2010-11. It is important to put that on GMCSF. They have been very helpful and are willing to treat the record, but now we all want to address the most him”. important issue. The other children who fell out of the original trial are now likely to go into the second trial. All the children I reiterate what I said when we last discussed the case who are now diagnosed with neuroblastoma will go of the hon. Gentleman’s constituent, Zach, here in into the original trial. Westminster Hall in the last few hours of Parliament before the Christmas recess: all hon. Members and all Zach is now clearly a unique case. He will be the only those present today sympathise with Zach and his family child in Britain with neuroblastoma who is unable to and appreciate how heart-breaking it must be for a receive this potentially life-saving monoclonal antibody parent to discover that their child has cancer. From my therapy—little Zach, who has been so brave throughout own involvement as a nurse, nursing children who have all this, and so determined not to let anything get him such distressing diseases, I know how their families down. I have met Zach. I also have a nine-year-old son suffer. Watching little ones suffer is the worst thing we and I just cannot imagine what it would be like for my ever do. son to have gone through the sort of treatment that that little boy went through. Zach is still so joyful and The previous debate highlighted the fact that research hopeful. His family, who have had to go through the into the disease has brought the good news that children torture of seeing Zach’s cousin, Chelsea, suffering from, diagnosed with neuroblastoma will have the chance to and eventually losing to, this killing disease, have been receive monoclonal antibody treatment in this country incredibly strong through all this. as part of a European trial announced in December last I spoke to Zach’s mother yesterday; she is one of the year. Sadly, we learned that Zach, and a small number most determined people you will meet. She said that she of other patients each year, would not meet the eligibility could not sit and watch another child die, and that she criteria for the trial. At the time I advised that because will do everything in her power to help save Zach. Like the drug was not licensed and the treatment had not his mother, I believe that we all have to do everything in been appraised by the National Institute for Health and our power to save this little boy. Northamptonshire Clinical Excellence, the primary care trust must take the PCT is meeting tomorrow to discuss whether funding decision on whether to fund the treatment. Zach’s consultant can be provided to pay for Zach to go to the United subsequently applied for individual funding for the States. treatment. The investigators for the trial independently approached the Department to highlight the fact that Mr. William Cash (Stone) (Con): Although I intended although some patients would fall outside the trial to contribute to the next debate, having heard my hon. criteria each year, there might be an alternative approach Friend speak I should like to congratulate him on his that would enable all patients with high-risk neuroblastoma doughty defence of the interests of this child. As a to be treated with antibody therapy. We subsequently Member of Parliament, he is doing a tremendous service met the research team, and I was able to take the hon. to his constituent and his constituency as a whole. Gentleman with me so that he could hear the details of the proposals. Mr. Bone: Coming from my hon. Friend, that is a kind compliment. Dr. Brock, the trial’s chief investigator in England, The problem is timing. Time is of the essence. We met her European colleagues in Austria two weeks ago need to get Zach accepted to receive the treatment in and, with our support, made some proposals to enable America. I appreciate all the efforts that the Minister all high-risk neuroblastoma patients to be treated with has made up to now. I have only one question for her: antibody therapy. I am pleased to report that I have what can the Government do to prevent this little boy today received a letter from Dr. Brock, which I will from dying? make available to the hon. Gentleman, explaining the outcome of her discussions in Austria. She reports that her European colleagues at the meeting agreed that all 12.46 pm children in Europe who could benefit from the antibody The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health treatment should have access to it. They also agreed (Ann Keen): It is a privilege to speak with you in the that there needs to be a new way of making antibody Chair today, Mr. Key. I thank the hon. Member for treatment available to children who do not meet the Wellingborough (Mr. Bone) for his kind words about necessarily stringent criteria of the current phase III my concern in this case. trial supported by Cancer Research UK. 231WH NHS (Wellingborough)16 MARCH 2010 NHS (Wellingborough) 232WH

[Ann Keen] The proposed phase II trial will offer hope to the five or six young patients a year who are not eligible for the The proposed solution is to open a phase II trial of randomised control trial to benefit from the treatment, antibody treatment, plus interleukin 2, with much wider together with children in other European countries. I eligibility criteria. That should include all those with a am informed that the randomised control trial is currently chance of benefit who are at present not eligible for the open in only four countries: Austria, the UK, Italy and phase III trial. Dr. Brock assures us that that will Israel. The other countries are still negotiating with broaden access without compromising the scientific their health regulatory authorities. The UK was the first validity of the current trial, which is important if the country to open after Austria, the European sponsor. trial is to be taken seriously. I am sure that hon. Members agree that it is a testament To make the new phase II trial possible, another to our long tradition of research and excellence in this batch of antibody production needs to be funded. We country. are working on the details of funding, but as soon as it is confirmed that it is in place, the existing antibody may be used to open the trial quickly without waiting Mr. Bone: May I take this opportunity to express my for the new batch to be manufactured and tested. I thanks to the Minister for what she has achieved? It is understand that Dr. Brock will have a good deal of extremely encouraging and a great step forward. paperwork to process to get the trial under way, and we will continue to provide what support we can to assist Ann Keen: That is rather overwhelming. As the hon. her in that. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) inferred, this is an excellent Dr. Brock has advised me that she hopes to be able to way of representing our constituents—working together open the phase II trial in the UK in time for Zach to with Dr. Brock, Dr. Gaze, Cancer Research UK and benefit. She says that it would be reasonable for him to everyone who was so willing to ask, “What can we do?”, receive the antibody treatment starting on day 140 after after Zach’s case was highlighted. Children who take high-dose treatment, which would be in line with the part in the Cancer Research UK trial and the new phase post-high-dose treatment timing of the European trial. II trial will join the many other children and adults The phase II trial will not have strict timelines. involved in clinical trials of cancer treatment. It is a tribute to all those who work in the NHS, the cancer Mr. Bone: I am grateful to hear what the Minister is charities and the commercial sector that the percentage saying, which is very encouraging. Is it conditional in of cancer patients who enter trials each year is higher in any way on the Government’s agreeing to fund the new England than anywhere else in the world. We are good antibodies? Are the Government making a commitment at criticising each other in this country, but to say that to fund them? I am worried because in a couple of that number is higher in England than elsewhere in the weeks we will shut down for the general election. Are world is an achievement to be proud of. the Government making a commitment, so that it will happen? When we visited Great Ormond Street hospital, we went to a meeting room, and I was asked to meet one of Ann Keen: I hope to reassure the hon. Gentleman. the little ones receiving the treatment. I met Sophie Dr. Brock has also stated that if the phase II trial does McGuire, who was having her treatment. She gave me a not open in time for Zach in the UK, he should be able little bunch of flowers. One cannot go into Great Ormond to receive the treatment in Germany under Professor Street without coming out saying, “What are we moaning Holger Lode, who will be the European sponsor of the about? What do we have to concern ourselves with?” I phase II trial, and has done all the work on the humanised pay tribute to every member of staff who works with antibody in Europe. I am also pleased to confirm that those children, and I thank the hon. Member for Zach’s PCT—it will only just have received details about Wellingborough for taking the opportunity of this debate the proposed new phase II trial and the anticipated to highlight again such an important issue. All of us, on timelines—is minded to support funding for treatment both sides of the House, wish Zach and his family all as part of the phase II trial in this country or, if the very best, and hope that he has a happy, long and necessary, in Germany. exciting life. 233WH 16 MARCH 2010 Online Child and Adult Protection 234WH

Online Child and Adult Protection university students and has socially stratified down to other levels of society. That is not the case in the US, Robert Key (in the Chair): Wenowmoveontothe where Facebook and MySpace are divided along lines next debate, but before calling the hon. Member for of ethnicity and class, with Afro-Caribbean and Latino Glasgow, North-West (John Robertson), I seek clarification. school leavers favouring MySpace, and university students Have the hon. Gentleman and the Minister agreed to favouring Facebook. the participation of another hon. Member? Recent research, commissioned during the national year of reading 2008 on white working class boys—C2 John Robertson (Glasgow, North-West) (Lab) indicated and DE grades—aged between 11 and 15, found that assent. 80 per cent. had access to the internet through computers in the home. That highlights the fact that this issue The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the affects everybody in our society, and even those who are Home Department (Mr. Alan Campbell) indicated assent. not online might have family members who are. It is understandable that problems of security will arise in such a diluted online community. 12.57 pm Some experts link the rise in teenage rape, which was John Robertson (Glasgow, North-West) (Lab): It is a up 23 per cent. on last year, to a growing sexualisation pleasure, Mr. Key, to have you in the Chair for this of young teenage girls on social network sites. I do not debate. I am delighted to have secured it, and to have believe that that is the only reason for the rise, but it the opportunity of exchanging views with my hon. may be an influential factor. Either way, that reiterates Friend the Minister. I look forward to hearing his the fear that we have about this matter. In the case of comments, and his commitment on the wider issues that Ashleigh Hall, more could have been done by the social I shall raise. I shall start by discussing the current state networking site Facebook to protect her by adding a of child and adult online protection in the social media, report button. I know about the report button from my and what can be done to improve matters. work as chair of the all-party group on communications. I was brought to this subject today following events It was created by the Home Office’s Child Exploitation in recent weeks, and the sad deaths of Ashleigh Hall and Online Protection Centre—CEOP—and is free to and Camille Mathurasingh. Ms Mathurasingh was stabbed use for any social media website, with no charge for to death by her ex-boyfriend, after he viewed pictures of take-up. CEOP has stated that since its creation, the her with another man on a social media account. Although button receives thousands of clicks a month. Facebook the case received mass media attention, I am aware that has had access to the button since 2006, but has not yet it is an impossible area in which to legislate. put it on its user sites. I read in the papers that internet The case of Ashleigh Hall is more worrying. She was security consultants in the USA found 8,000 paedophiles stalked by a 33-year-old paedophile posing as someone on that website, and it is well documented that MySpace half his age. He met up with Ms Hall, and then abducted, removed 90,000 paedophiles from its website. However, raped and murdered her. Although the circumstances of in spite of that, neither website has fitted the report the cases differ, they illustrate the problems of protecting button. Will the Minister help in this matter, and try to ourselves in the virtual world from danger in the real find out why those internet service providers will not world. put that button on their sites? Social media websites, such as Facebook, have The problem is that no industry code exists that inextricably changed the level of interaction in our requires social media websites to fit such buttons. Many society in the last few years. The concept of friendship people believe, as I do, that the market cannot and does has been downgraded, and we show pictures and share not regulate itself, and often, the commercial entities intimate details with hundreds or thousands of so-called that come into these environments are driven by venture friends, many of whom we have never even met. I speak capital. Companies try to do as much as possible for as with experience, because I have 500 new friends on little as possible, until they are bought over. Let me be Facebook whom I never knew I had. On a serious note, clear. There is nothing wrong with the business model, the downgrading of personal friendship bonds online but when talking about child safety, companies must has hidden consequences. Online relationships spring operate in an enterprise zone with special terms and up without face-to-face contact ever being made, and conditions. That could be based around business rates children may have communication with people of which and other incentives, but people should not be allowed their parents are unaware. to operate in blatant and flagrant abuse of construction, Social networking websites are clearly at the forefront use or child safety regulations. That should be no different of that new level of communications. According to a in the online environment; a panic button should be recent Ofcom report, UK internet users spend more present. It is free, and will not cost a thing. time on networking websites than any other country in I feel that the Government should ask questions of Europe, with 39 per cent. of UK adults using them those sites that do not have such a button and have regularly. Facebook is particularly primed for the UK, never answered those questions. In my role as chair of where it makes up 45 per cent. of the social networking the all-party group on communications, I have come market—double that of Bebo and more than three into contact with many leading figures in the online times that of MySpace. That is impressive if one considers sector. Last summer, the group held an inquiry into that the total global social networking website market is internet trafficking and took evidence from Jim Gamble topped by MySpace, which has 71.92 per cent. of the from CEOP. He informed the group that if someone market, while Facebook holds only 16.91 per cent. The could click on a CEOP red button, it would do three success of Facebook in the UK compared with the US things. First, it would reassure parents that the button is due to the fact that it has managed to spread beyond was present and that there was a route to law enforcement 235WH Online Child and Adult Protection16 MARCH 2010 Online Child and Adult Protection 236WH

[John Robertson] In conclusion, I know that there is no panacea, but small steps can be taken to increase online protection. I services other than the police. Secondly, it would deter recognise that the Government and the Minister have the offender in the same way that a burglar alarm on the done a considerable amount, but I feel that there is front of a house moves a burglar to the next house. much more to do. As the Minister will be aware, paedophiles Thirdly, it would reassure the child who has lessons in must register all their e-mail addresses and, if found school—there are 4.3 million of them and numbers are using an alternative one, can expect a five-year jail growing—and teach them that there is someone they sentence. What does my hon. Friend think of expanding can go to who will make a positive difference and help that idea to social media accounts? them. Many questions should be asked of social networking What can be done to encourage the uptake of CEOP’s websites that do not have such a button. The online report button by social networking websites? Will the infrastructure is in place for social media websites to use Minister consider forcing all mobile phone companies it, so why does every website not want to have that type and internet providers to provide child protection filters of reassuring mechanism built into it for the protection with every contract to under-18s? What does he think of of their users? my suggestion that everyone in the country should have No one wants to detract from the fact that Ashleigh their own e-mail account on a website such as Directgov? Hall’s murderer was a depraved and sick individual, and That would help to increase people’s knowledge of let me be clear that, although Facebook is in the news at online provision. What does my hon. Friend believe can the moment, it is not the only such site and Bebo, be done to improve online child protection on social MySpace and other industry leaders are equally culpable. media sites? What plans are there to increase awareness Social media websites such as Facebook and others among parents and children of child protection filters have a responsibility to do their bit to ensure the safety available from ISPs? Will my hon. Friend consider the of their users, especially their young users. I return to increasing use of CEOP and how else it could be used? I what I said earlier—the 90,000 paedophiles that MySpace look forward to hearing from him. in America threw off its site, and the 8,000 removed by Facebook, would suggest that there are a lot more. That 1.10 pm was just in the United States; we have not looked at the issue anywhere else. Mr. William Cash (Stone) (Con): I am grateful to you, Mr. Key, and to the hon. Member for Glasgow, Every site that is a public place online, be it a social North-West (John Robertson) for allowing me to make networking site or another self-generating site through a brief speech. I very much agree with what the hon. Web 2.0, should have the CEOP report button, for Gentleman said, and it is a tribute to him that he has example, on its screen. I support the Government’s brought this issue forward. There must be a proper policy on ID cards, but we are having this debate balance between new technologies and the uses to which because in a world where we give our personal details to they may be put. That is something that we have experienced social media websites based in California, there is a over many centuries. I am thinking of the introduction need for the individual to secure their identity. I feel that of printing, the introduction of books on a massive more has to be done to secure our online identity, and I scale, and radio and television. We are now into the new welcome the Government’s moves in that area. technology of the type that the hon. Gentleman so As a result of their close connections with Facebook clearly described. and other social media platforms, search engines such The problem, as I see it, goes back to a wave of very as Google put all our identities online and make them considerable laxity that developed in the latter period accessible to anyone and everyone. The caveat is that after the war, in the 1950s and ’60s, which gradually privacy options are provided, but as anyone with young developed to such a point that in 1977 my then hon. children will know, most young people never consider Friend the Member for Bexleyheath, Mr. Cyril Townsend, the ramifications of not securing their identity and came to see me to try to stop child pornography, because personal details. In an online world where social networking at that time it was possible for a person to take photographs websites have a responsibility towards young people, of children but to escape conviction under the then they should provide an area of safety for the young in enactments, as they had not touched the child. Through our society. a simple change in legislation, we introduced the Protection In this technological world, the internet is accessible of Children Act 1978, which was bitterly opposed, I on mobile phones, which causes another concern. I have to say, by Labour Ministers until the late Lord believe that network operators and retailers should Callaghan became Prime Minister. I asked him what work together to provide e-safety for mobile phones. made him give extra time to a private Member’s Bill on Ofcom should insist that all mobile access devices are Report, which was so unusual in those days and still is. fitted with child protection filters that protect the identity It was very simple. He said, “We took it to the Cabinet of the child. I would be interested to hear the Minister’s because there was so much concern, and my wife told views on that. me that she wouldn’t speak to me again if I didn’t get I do not want to paint a completely dark picture the Bill through.” That was the beginning of a change, because some ISP providers are doing something about and I pay tribute to the late Lord Callaghan and to all this issue. For example, last year BT estimated that those who were responsible for making that change. 42 per cent. of its broadband customers with children With regard to what followed from that, I think that I between 5 and 15 years old had set up BT Yahoo! am right in recollecting that in the 1990s, when my hon. content-filtering control settings. However, that is a Friend the Member for Salisbury (Robert Key) and I small proportion and there is a lack of knowledge on were in the House, he, too, took a great interest in the the subject. I should be interested to know the Minister’s question of how to deal in a proportionate manner with thoughts on that. the difficulties of child pornography. We were often 237WH Online Child and Adult Protection16 MARCH 2010 Online Child and Adult Protection 238WH criticised for invading freedom of speech, freedom of finds them rather baffling and makes limited use of expression and so on, but let us just consider briefly the them, but my children use new technology as a matter fact that what we are discussing leads to horrific murders of course and, as a parent, I am of course concerned in certain cases or to the general degradation of society, about their safety and the use that they make of those and that although it may not be fashionable to do this, services. cycles in appreciation of these matters do occur over the The reality is that social networking sites enable decades and we are due for a rebalancing of what I children to have fun in a different way, to share gossip, would describe as the moral force. That needs to be to play games, to build online friendships and to use brought in to get the balance right. We do not seek to be some of the services available online, but as my hon. negative about the new technologies or the advantages Friend pointed out, that raises issues about how we can that can come from them, but we wish to make absolutely keep them safe in those environments, particularly when sure that we do not expose children to paedophile rings. there is an unusual friendship and when social contact I may say that the Protection of Children Act, as clearly does not take place in the traditional way, which amended, has been used to deal with international can bring protection to children. The process can be paedophilia to great effect. quite isolated, if we are not careful. So I strongly support what the hon. Member for It falls to Government to ensure that we keep children Glasgow, North-West said. The return to a balance, and safe online as far as we can. There will always be people all the suggestions that he made, are practical measures who look to use new technology for criminal ends. The that could be implemented. Claims of freedom of expression horrific case of Ashleigh Hall demonstrated how the must not be allowed to interfere. This has nothing to do internet can be used by those who seek to harm others. with freedom of expression. The Government must At one extreme, as in Ashleigh’s case, we are talking properly regulate the evil people who use the new about murder, but elsewhere on the scale there is a technologies to pervert and undermine young children. whole range of criminal activities, including fraud, for That has to stop, and I am sure that the Minister will example. have something constructive to say along those lines. I want to say something about the way in which we have tried to keep children safe. Sometimes this is 1.15 pm forgotten, particularly when individual cases make headlines, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the but we in the United Kingdom have one of the most Home Department (Mr. Alan Campbell): I congratulate robust mechanisms in the world for dealing with sex my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, North-West offenders, and for protecting children from them when (John Robertson) on securing a debate on an important offline. We work, and have tried very hard, to ensure matter that ought to concern us all. Let me deal with that the same principles apply in the online world. That the speech from the hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash). means having the right legislation in place to deal with He warned me last week that on some matters, I might online and offline offences against children. It means a be agreeing with him too much for the good of my dedicated law enforcement response to handling reports career, but I very much welcome his contribution and I of online threats to children and to tackling offenders, broadly agree with him. He reminded us of the history and a structure to bring together all the groups with a of some of the issues, which was valuable, but he also contribution to make in protecting children online. raised the ongoing challenge that new technology brings That latter point is important. The Government and the balance that there must be, with safeguards for believe—as the House of Lords Science and Technology the public. I agree about the need to have that debate. Committee said in its report on personal internet safety— that although the Government have responsibilities on John Robertson: I thank my hon. Friend for those the issue, they cannot address all the problems facing us comments and, through him, I thank the hon. Member on the internet on their own. for Stone (Mr. Cash) for his contribution. It just shows What we have done, and will do if necessary, is turn that the issues are not new; we have been here before. to legislation. Many of the offences committed online Although the technology is new, the problem is the are old offences, albeit in a new medium. We must same. ensure that our legislation keeps pace with the fast-changing online world. That is why the Sexual Offences Act 2003 Mr. Campbell: Indeed. I was about to pay tribute to introduced the offence of grooming and made it a crime my hon. Friend for his work as chair of the all-party to attempt to prey on children, including through the group on communications, which means that he brings internet, for sexual purposes. The law made it clear that to these matters considerable experience and wisdom. such activities would not be tolerated in the United Let me place on the record my condolences to the Kingdom. Subsequently, more than 100 people have families of Ashleigh Hall and Camille Mathurasingh, been convicted of the offence. We will continue to whose lives were taken in tragic circumstances— respond to the need for changes in legislation as technology circumstances on which we all need to reflect to see and services change. what more can be done to prevent such tragedies in the Mr. Cash: Does the Minister agree that schools should future. have an educational role in that regard, so that children In the time that I have, I should like to say a little have specific advice on such matters? about the context in which the debate is taking place and to return specifically to the questions that my hon. Mr. Campbell: Yes. I will come to that point. That is Friend raised. Like him, the Government recognise the very much a pillar of the work that we want to do. As benefits to individuals and, indeed, to children of being has been said, ensuring that we have the legislation in able to use online services, including social networking place is not a panacea, but it does help to build confidence services. I have to confess that I am of a generation that among adults and children. 239WH Online Child and Adult Protection16 MARCH 2010 Online Child and Adult Protection 240WH

[Mr. Alan Campbell] John Robertson: I hear what my hon. Friend says, but part of the problem is that children are much more My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, North-West, adept at using the internet than their parents. We should is interested in blocking illegal images, so let me briefly perhaps be talking about educating parents, rather than say something about that. We want to make sure that children. people are protected online from images that might be sent to them. My hon. Friend will know of the excellent Mr. Campbell: I agree very much. That is why a key Internet Watch Foundation list and of our efforts to part of the strategy is not just about the number of ensure that internet service providers take it up, but we children who have gone through the programme in want to go further. We have already discussed with the schools and elsewhere, but about working proactively Office of Government Commerce the idea that one of with parents to make sure that they understand the the criteria in the selection process for Government risks and how to address them, and take whatever contracts for IT services should be the need for suppliers precautions they can. to block access to sites containing illegal images, as held I am grateful for the work of not only CEOP and on the Internet Watch Foundation list, and I am pleased others, but charities and industries, which have played to say that the OGC will be issuing guidance. That is an important part through the Home Secretary’s taskforce important in itself, but it also sends a message to the for the protection of children on the internet and, industry that we are putting our house in order and that following the Byron report, UKCCIS. One of the first it should therefore do everything that it can to put its pieces of work carried out by the taskforce was the owninorder. development of guidance for social networking providers. On law enforcement, we recognised that the growth That guidance set out good practice, and that was at the of the internet and children’s use of social networking core of my hon. Friend’s speech. Some of the big social and other services that allow online contacts to be made networking sites work hard to deliver on that guidance. raised significant safety issues. Many children were When it was launched in 2008, the document was the going online regularly, and there was a need to consider first in the world dealing with how children can be kept how law enforcement could be provided to help protect safe and what service providers can do to ensure that children. In 2006, the Government set up the Child children have safety information available to them, and Exploitation and Online Protection Centre to tackle that includes using the “Click CEOP” button. threats to children online. I am pleased to say that, None the less, we remain disappointed that a number under the superb leadership of Jim Gamble, CEOP has of major providers of such services have not yet been tremendously successful in safeguarding more than implemented the “Click CEOP” button. I expect those 500 children and in helping to track down those who responsible for the provision of services online to take use the internet to contact and harm children. Using responsibility for providing safety mechanisms and intelligence gathered through the “Click CEOP” button information to their users. In the case of services where and other sources, it has made more than 800 arrests of there can be communication between people who have suspected offenders, both itself and working with the not previously known each other and where identities wider UK law enforcement community. It has also can be invented, I expect providers to make the “Click worked closely with non-UK law enforcement agencies CEOP”button available to allow users who feel threatened to tackle what is clearly an international problem. or vulnerable to make a report. The hon. Member for Stone mentioned education in My hon. Friend posed a number of questions, to his intervention, and a major element in protecting which I want to respond directly, although I hope that I children online is educating them about the threats and have touched on them in my remarks. He talked about giving them information on how to protect themselves. registering paedophiles’ e-mail addresses. He will know CEOP has developed an education programme for children that we have legislated for a power to add such a and their parents and carers called thinkuknow. It is requirement to the existing sex offenders register notification based on CEOP’s research and on the experience that it requirements, but that power has not yet been implemented. has gathered during its work. The thinkuknow website That is because we are awaiting legal advice. We will get contains advice for children in clear and relevant language, that advice after a judgment from the Supreme Court as well as information for parents, carers and teachers on the F v. Thompson case. We certainly do not want to on the dangers and how they can help children to prejudice that appeal, but once we get that advice, and avoid them. provided that it does not rule out adding new restrictions, we can and will work with social networking companies In addition, the Home Office, working with the to see how information can best be used to protect Department for Children, Schools and Families, created children online. If that means disclosing details of child the UK Council for Child Internet Safety. UKCCIS sex offenders’ e-mail addresses to social networking launched the “Click Clever Click Safe” campaign on sites, so be it. safer internet day, which was on 9 February. A core My hon. Friend’s second question was on the use of element of the campaign is the “Click Clever Click the CEOP button by social networking sites. As I said, Safe” code, which has been designed to give parents the we have argued that it should be used by all sites. Many confidence to help their children to enjoy the internet sites, such as Bebo, have taken it up, while others have safely, and to give children and young people a better agreed to do so at some point in the future. We see understanding of how their online experiences can expose absolutely no reason why sites should not take it up. I them to risks. We want that code to be as familiar as the am happy to tell my hon. Friend that the Home Secretary green cross code is to children, who are in danger of and I will meet representatives of Facebook later this having accidents when crossing the road. week to impress on them the need to allow users who feel threatened to have access to the CEOP button. 241WH Online Child and Adult Protection 16 MARCH 2010 242WH

My hon. Friend asked about child protection filters Educational Standards (City of on mobile phones. We work closely with the mobile Westminster) phone industry, where technology is moving very quickly. As part of those ongoing discussions, we are considering 1.30 pm child safety issues relating to the use of a new generation of phones, rather than exclusively to images. I was Mr. Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) interested by what he said about people having a personal (Con): For many years, successive Governments have e-mail account on a website such as Directgov. Let me assumed that simply tinkering with the structure of take that idea away and think about it. If I may, I will education leads to an almost automatic improvement in write to him in detail on the issue. educational standards, yet the message that is coming What more can we do to improve online child protection loud and clear from schools and colleges is that much of on social media sites? As I said, we have taken a number that constant interference does not work. Schools want of actions, but the most important point is that all of the autonomy to decide how best to achieve great us, including the industry, have a responsibility to work results within their own unique community, supported together to tackle the problem and to ensure that children only by local education authorities, when necessary. In are safe on the internet. The Government will continue my view, the local council’s role should be to represent to provide a law enforcement response, as well as and advise parents in securing a good education for information and education about the threats, but we their children, while supporting schools by providing expect the providers of services to play their part by certain services that are beyond the capacity of individual providing those who feel threatened with links to law schools to provide. enforcement bodies, support and information. I hope In an attempt to get that balance right in my that I have reassured hon. Members that the Government constituency, the leader of Westminster city council, take these matters seriously and that work is very much Councillor Colin Barrow, decided in June 2008 to launch in progress. an independent education commission, charged with calculating how our local authority could assist schools in improving the attainment of Westminster’s young people. The education commission report proposed 10 recommendations to help the city of Westminster overcome the economic, cultural and social challenges of providing education in an inner city environment. Although the recommendations understandably focused on the city of Westminster, the commission believes that the challenges and opportunities facing the local authority are mirrored elsewhere. As a result, its analysis and recommendations have an important contribution to make to the wider debate and further policy development in education. I often emphasise in the House how misunderstood my constituency is. Many assume that it is a place only for the global super-rich. Although it has pockets of great wealth, for sure, the reality is very different: it is a place where great poverty and great wealth live cheek by jowl. Anyone who had a chance to read the excellent recent Evening Standard series on London’s dispossessed will know now of the huge contrasts present in that seemingly ultra-modern, prosperous and dynamic city. The impact of that wealth disparity on schooling in my constituency makes the challenges of providing a good education in Westminster considerable. Many of our families are new to Britain. Westminster’s population is 236,000 and of those people 51 per cent.—including me, I hasten to add—were born outside the UK. There is a massive population turnover, with 25 per cent. of residents arriving or leaving each year. Most of the children in our state schools do not speak English at home. As one might imagine, the difficulties of educating a child who arrives mid-year, whose classmates move to different areas regularly and whose parents are unaccustomed to the British education system present a major challenge to Westminster city council. Of course the same could be said of other inner city areas in the UK. Yet, together, our local schools and Westminster city council achieve good results, which are improving fast, in both absolute and relative terms. The most tangible demonstration of the quality of Westminster schools, however, is the number of children from other boroughs, such as Lambeth, Southwark, 243WH Educational Standards (City of 16 MARCH 2010 Educational Standards (City of 244WH Westminster) Westminster) [Mr. Mark Field] jeopardised and a right to access information from academies to allow such interventions to be made. It Camden and Brent, who come here to be educated. also advised that the council should increase its capacity Indeed, I know that when families in social housing are to share best practice through the development of a moved to other parts of London, they are normally collaborative inner London board. keen for their children to continue to be schooled in Finally, the commission recommended that the council Westminster. Nevertheless, the results averages mask should invite the director of schools and learning to wide differences in outcomes. Westminster city council attend the strategic executive board and immediately wants keenly to rectify that by bringing every classroom appoint a cabinet member for education. That was the up to the standard of the best; but how should it go only recommendation that was subsequently rejected about achieving that admirable goal when its influence outright, once the council, after consultation, decided over national education policy is limited and all secondary that having one cabinet member for all children’s services schools in the borough are independent of direct local was more likely to fit with statutory requirements. education authority control? How can it be a useful I think that there is an acceptance, to be honest—trying partner to the right schools in the locality, while granting to put party politics to one side—that because inner them the autonomy to make the right decisions for their London authorities are very small, by their nature, pupils? some collaboration is needed and that, without necessarily To begin answering those questions, Councillor Barrow moving towards the re-institution of the Inner London launched the education commission in June 2008. Led Education Authority, there are certain benefits to such by Professor David Eastwood, a group of education collaboration, which I hope will be developed in the experts spent six months last year speaking to the future. widest range of local stakeholders, to gain a clear understanding of the current state of education in The council later added two further recommendations Westminster and to advise the council how it might of its own: to support parents so that children’s outcomes improve its service. All the commissioners accepted that improve and to give further attention and resources to invitation on the basis that their work would be enhancing attainment in the key subject areas of English untrammelled, that their report would be entirely and mathematics, setting two key ambitions—to improve independent and that their recommendations would key stage 2 level 4 results from 73 per cent. to 80 per form the basis of a commitment to action. cent. and to get the number of children achieving 5 GCSE grades at A* to C, including English and The education commission report was eventually maths, up from the current 51 per cent. to 75 per cent. published in September last year. It recognised the social, economic and cultural challenges that Westminster Most importantly, the commission drew attention to faces, the significant improvement achieved in many of the role of the local authority in the context of the its schools in the recent past and the capacity constraints continual change to which I referred earlier. Schools on a relatively small London authority. It also produced deliver education, but, as the Minister knows, the council 10 key recommendations that it advised Westminster has statutory powers to ensure that education is provided city council to take forward. First, it suggested that to the highest standard. The commission recognised senior management from the children’s services department that it is a challenge—it would be for any inner city should make an annual visit to all schools. Each school’s council—to carry out that statutory role when all secondary wider achievements should be celebrated, in the publishing and many primary schools, as in Westminster, are of a school report card, and collated into an annual independent of direct council control. The mobility of “Education in Westminster” report. The report also students across borough boundaries also presents a strongly encouraged all councillors to become governors further challenge in collaborating with neighbouring of Westminster schools. In a borough where a large local authorities to raise attainment and achieve the number of Conservative voters send their children to best outcomes. Those challenges require the council to private schools, the subsequent taking up of that be clear about its role. In that sense, it was concluded recommendation is, I believe, a tangible demonstration that the ultimate objective should be to ensure that, of councillors’ commitment to all those in the constituency, when children leave Westminster’s schools, they are not just their political patrons. prepared for the next stage of life—whether that is in The report recommended that the council should college, work or university—and as far as possible for work with schools on extended services, such as programmes independence. for the gifted and talented and for the raising of aspirations. I attended the launch of the report in September last It advised that early years provision should be reviewed year, and I was inspired by the leadership of the council to determine how effectively it is targeting those most in on this important matter, first under the dedicated need and suggested the extension of educational Councillor Mark Page and now under the outstanding opportunities for children with special educational needs Councillor Nickie Aiken, who is cabinet member for and the improvement of care provision for students children and young people. At the launch, the council with behavioural and emotional difficulties. leader said that he aspired to making Westminster’s As for the council’s responsibilities to parents, the schools the first choice for local parents. He said: report called upon it to provide high quality, impartial “In throwing open our schools to external scrutiny and by guidance to parents and carers and to facilitate improved setting up the Commission we have placed ourselves at the very information sharing between primary, secondary and heart of one of the most important debates of our time—how we special schools and the pupil referral units at the point can radically improve the life chances of children in today’s of transition. society.” On a broader level, the commission suggested that He continued: the council should acquire a right to strategic engagement “A particular challenge for us is how we ensure high quality, with all schools if children’s educational experiences are cost effective services and support all our schools within a relatively 245WH Educational Standards (City of 16 MARCH 2010 Educational Standards (City of 246WH Westminster) Westminster) small authority. The report’s proposals around the development made a set of robust recommendations that can be used of cross borough collaboration and potential mergers offer a real as a catalyst to drive standards forward. The commissioners’ and exciting opportunity for a regional response which could report also provides a platform for thought and debate, deliver effective savings for local taxpayers.” and I hope that it will inspire politicians, council leaders, We all know that it is one thing to aspire to change; it teachers and officers, who will all need to engage to take is another to enact it. As a precursor to applying for the initiative forward. One hopes that Westminster city today’s debate, I contacted the council to learn of its council will become a beacon authority. In enacting the progress in adopting the commission’s recommendations. recommendations, the council looks set to lead the way I was pleased to find that the council had already again, remodelling the role of a local authority in the responded with vigour. First, it hosted a series of workshops provision of education. with local stakeholders to ensure that everyone—teachers, The most important of the suggestions put forward school leaders, members, officers, parents and others—was by the commission is that of clarifying the role of the on board with the recommendations. local education authority as a commissioner of education, The council has also been building on the commission’s rather than as an old-fashioned provider. In pursuing recommendations. It recognises that it needs to ensure that model, it is hoped that independence for schools that Westminster has outstanding leaders and managers and value for the taxpayer will be compatible with in its schools. The council will therefore strive to attract ever-improving educational opportunities for the youngest, and retain the best, through academies and organisational both in Westminster and beyond the borough boundaries. changes such as executive headship, as well as monitoring challenge and intervention by high-quality school improvement partners. It is also putting renewed attention 1.44 pm into early years services by providing multi-agency support The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Children, through children’s centres, where vulnerable children Schools and Families (Ms Diana R. Johnson): I congratulate and those with additional learning and behavioural the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster needs can be identified and properly cared for. (Mr. Field) on securing the debate. My first debate as a Through capital and joint-funded programmes, the Minister was with the hon. Gentleman; it was about council hopes to improve local learning environments home education in Westminster, so I know that he is a and maximise the use of new technology. The Minister strong advocate for the well-being and future success of probably shares my view—we may have been educated students in Westminster. I know that it is something at a similar time—but whenever we visit schools, we see about which he is passionate. I, too, want to ensure that how much they have changed. It is taken as read that students across the country receive an excellent education, there will be huge amounts of technology in all schools. and that the standards in our schools continue to rise. That is a positive way forward, but we need to utilise That means, of course, that I want to see standards rise that technology to the full in all schools. in Westminster too. The family information service in Westminster provides During my time in the Department for Children, a single portal of information on all services for children Schools and Families, I have been responsible for London and their families. The school report card gives parents schools and have visited some of our capital’s finest clear and unambiguous advice on which to base their schools. I am pleased to say that the many schools I choices, and the service seeks to remove barriers to have visited have all been of an exceptionally high learning by building a special educational needs strategy. standard. Only this morning, I visited Hillyfield primary I hope that that will develop high-quality provision in school in Waltham Forest. It is an outstanding school, the borough by maximising choice and providing better with Steve Lancashire, a national leader in education, value for money. as its head. In north Westminster, we have St. George’s Most importantly, it is proposed that the city council school, one of the most improved schools in London. should become a commissioner of education rather Before speaking about the specifics of schools in than a provider, moving away from the traditional model Westminster, it is important to outline how far schools under which all services are provided and delivered by standards have come nationally. My Department, working the authority to one that has a strong, central team of in close partnership with local authorities, school leaders expert education commissioners, with a focus on broader and teachers, has done much to be credited with since educational improvement. The aim is to improve outcomes; 1997. We now have over 40,000 more teachers; they are to provide stronger financial planning and control; to the best-qualified work force in our history, and are implement strategic commissioning; to achieve greater supported by more than 180,000 teaching assistants. We transparency; to develop a mixed economy model that have 4,000 new or refurbished schools, and have seen balances good outcomes and value for money by using the biggest school building programme since the Victorian approaches such as outsourcing, the shared services to era. Over 100,000 more children are leaving primary which I referred earlier and the use of the voluntary school secure in the basics. Only one in 12 schools is sector; and to commission services with neighbouring now below our basic minimum benchmark of at least boroughs to create new capacity, specialist services and 30 per cent. of pupils achieving five good GCSEs, extended management capacity across the entire range including English and maths, compared to one in two in of expertise. 1997. That rigorous focus on standards has resulted in Although the academic results in the challenging there being more high quality schools on the doorstep inner-city borough of Westminster are getting better, of many communities across the country. given the council’s continued efforts to improve the I am pleased to say that those high standards of state offering to local residents, Westminster city council education are also present in the city of Westminster. has never been content to rest on its laurels. In launching The percentage of students gaining five A to C GCSEs its independent education commission, the council has has recently improved significantly. In 2005, the figure 247WH Educational Standards (City of 16 MARCH 2010 Educational Standards (City of 248WH Westminster) Westminster) [Ms Diana R. Johnson] Mr. Mark Field: It would also be ideal for the minority Labour councillors to do their bit serving as school was 38.1 per cent., and in 2009 it had risen to 52.8 per governors, as some already do. I was not making a cent. That increase of 14.7 per cent. is greater than the party political point. The idea is that it should be London average of 10.7 per cent. and the national almost a prerequisite for all people who aspire to improvement in maintained schools of 8.2 per cent. be councillors to do a stint on a governing body. They might even enjoy it enough to continue for some years At key stage 2, 73 per cent. of pupils in Westminster after they have left the council. gain a level 4 or above in English and maths, which is 1 per cent. above the national average. Westminster is in the top 10 local authorities for progression in English at Ms Johnson: The hon. Gentleman and I agree on that key stage 1, with 88 per cent. of pupils making the point. It is very helpful to have local councillors from all expected level of progress by the end of key stage 2, political parties serving on the governing bodies of which is 6 per cent. more than the national figure. local schools because it gives them a real insight into Westminster’s key stage 2 to 4 progression data show a what happens in the classrooms. 3 per cent. increase in both maths and English. That The hon. Gentleman will also know of the schools breaks down to 66 per cent. of pupils achieving the White Paper, which recently started its progress through expected level in maths, and 69 per cent. in English. In the House of Commons in the Children, Schools and maths, 82 per cent. of pupils in Westminster made the Families Bill. It includes the development of the new expected level of progress compared to 81 per cent. school report card, which echoes an issue raised in the nationally. commission report. The report card is part of the wider I am pleased to see Westminster pupils’ excellent rates changes to strengthen schools’ accountability to parents of progress in English during key stage 2. I believe that and the public generally, raise standards and reform is partly due to the great work of the Making good pupil testing and assessment. progress pilot, which has been running in the borough The school report card will include information, ranging for the last two years. It is an encouraging picture of from exam data to pupil well-being, that will provide a continued progress from key stage 2 in primary school broader and clearer picture of each school’s performance to key stage 4 at the end of secondary, with a 3 per cent. in one easily accessible place. It will provide a single, increase this year for pupils in Westminster in both clear and prioritised set of outcomes against which maths and English compared with last year. schools can be judged by all parts of the system, with At the heart of the improvement in Westminster predictable outcomes for both excellent or poor schools is a clear school improvement strategy. The performance. hon. Gentleman will be aware that Westminster council The hon. Gentleman mentioned the need to support has ensured that significant additional funding has been parents and all the different community groups in channelled to the secondary school improvement team, Westminster. We too acknowledge that strong, stable which has resulted in positive outcomes on a range of families are the bedrock of our society. Families give indicators. In real terms, per-pupil increases between children the love and security they need to grow up and 1997 and 2005 were £1,720. In 2005 our funding system explore the world, and families are where most of us changed but our investment in education continues, find the support and care necessary for a happy and with a real-terms per-pupil increases between 2005 and fulfilling life—as children and adults, parents and 2008 of £720, a 13 per cent. increase, compared to 8 per grandparents. cent. for England. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government are There are clear plans for each school in Westminster strongly committed to supporting all parents, including to use detailed data analysis to target support. To grandparents and carers, in sustaining strong and resilient Westminster’s credit, it has used structural solutions, relationships. The recently published Green Paper focused including the formation of academies, to help secure on enabling families to help themselves, and its proposals improvements in pupil outcomes. There are no maintained are clearly set out. schools with results below the GCSE floor target, which The national strategies programme has been working is a great achievement, and a credit to the local authority’s closely with the local authority in Westminster and has good work. Such achievement is shown in Ofsted’s praised it for its high quality secondary team, which results. From September 2005 to August 2009, Ofsted makes effective use of school improvement partners, inspected 56 schools, with 39 rated as either good or consultants and external advisers. The authority should outstanding. All secondary schools have been judged as also be applauded for its advanced plans to construct a either good or better for behaviour, and the local authority centre of support and excellence, which will be forged continues to tackle attendance issues well, and is now from combining two special schools and the development ranked third nationally for levels of persistent absence. of their strong outreach capacity to help more teachers There has also been a reduction in permanent exclusions. and school leaders in the local authority to support The hon. Gentleman has made extensive reference to students with special educational needs. the Westminster Education Commission report, which For the one Westminster school that is currently was published in the autumn. I looked at the report judged by Ofsted to require special measures, the school with interest. I note what the hon. Gentleman said improvement partners and the local authority are working about the need for Conservative borough councillors to closely to ensure that improvement is rapid and sustainable. serve on the governing bodies of local schools. That is a Clearly, Westminster is a local authority that is committed helpful way forward, because local representatives need to raising school standards for the benefit of all to know what it is going on in their schools to be able to students—an accolade that it has progressively worked make good decisions at local level. for and one that it will continue to prove. 249WH Educational Standards (City of 16 MARCH 2010 Educational Standards (City of 250WH Westminster) Westminster) Much of the fine work for which Westminster is on hard-to-reach families, parents and carers, and local being recognised in this debate could also relate to culture and values and the early years sector. Work has London as a whole. As I am sure the hon. Gentleman is started with more than 30 schools, and targets have aware, today’s London schools have come on quite a been agreed by all. I look forward to seeing the progress long journey from where they were at the start of the that will be made in the coming months. century. In 2001, 179 London schools had fewer than Westminster has also been funded by London challenge 30 per cent. of their pupils achieving 5 GCSEs at A to C to work with Kensington and Chelsea on a pilot research grades, including English and maths. Last year, that project, which draws on an approach initially established figure had dropped to 15 schools. in New York schools. It has been delivering significant During London’s journey, from one of the poorest to results for some of the “hardest to move”pupils, improving one of the best performing areas of the country, the their skills, motivation and attainment. The model has implementation of our London challenge has played a been adapted for use in a UK context, and 12 primary key role. The hon. Gentleman talked about the need for schools across the two authorities are involved in the boroughs—particularly the smaller ones—to collaborate. pilot. Teachers will work collaboratively to develop I am struck by the collaboration that has already happened strategies to unlock and accelerate the learning of a in the sharing of best practice. Through the challenge, small group of students, as a means of improving we can identify and prioritise the schools that need teaching and learning across the whole school. Such extra help and analyse particular issues for the London examples show how my Government have worked in education system. partnership with Westminster council and Westminster For each school, we worked with local authorities to schools to deliver dramatic improvements in results. develop specific and targeted solutions to the problems, I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the including tackling low attainment in individual schools debate and thank him for highlighting what is going on and addressing the issues that were facing London in in education in Westminster. If we want educational particular, such as low aspiration and a shortage of standards to improve, we must treat each school individually, high quality teachers. As London continues to improve, and offer them tailored support and guidance so that I want us to ensure that success is spread across the they can do even better. Many Westminster schools are capital. To that end, we are supporting all London working closely with teachers, students, local authorities boroughs to work together in clusters on aspects of and other educational professionals to offer local students school improvement. the best education possible. Westminster is the lead authority for a five-borough Through this partnership and our continued work in cluster that has been working together since autumn the London challenge, we can ensure that those standards 2009, funded by London challenge. The Westminster not only stay high, but steadily rise in the years to come. cluster is making immediate headway on narrowing the Question put and agreed to. gap in achievement between disadvantaged children and their peers through cross-borough working with a 1.58 pm core group of schools. That work has a particular focus Sitting adjourned.

47WS Written Ministerial Statements16 MARCH 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 48WS

Correspondence from MPs / Peers to Ministers and Agency Chief Executives in Written Ministerial 2009

Correspondence from MPs / Peers to Ministers and Agency Chief Statements Executives 1 2009 Target set for %of Tuesday 16 March 2010 reply Number of replies (working letters within Department or Agency days) received target

Department for Environment, 15 12527 73 CABINET OFFICE Food and Rural Affairs Animal Health 15 76 93 Members and Peers Correspondence 2009 Marine Fisheries Agency 15 35 82 Rural Payments Agency 15 406 66

The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Angela E. Food Standards Agency Smith): I am publishing today a report on Departments’ DH Ministers replies 20 408 70* and agencies’ performance on handling Members’ and 20 584 95** Peers’ correspondence during 2009. Details are set out FSA Chair/CE replies 20 120 90 in the table. Correspondence statistics 2008 can be Meat Hygiene Service 15 22 100 found on 2 April 2009, Official Report, columns 81-86WS. * response to non-campaign letters Departmental figures are based on substantive replies ** response to campaign letters unless otherwise indicated. The footnotes to the table provide general background Foreign and Commonwealth Office 20 10462 82 information on how the figures have been compiled. Correspondence from MPs / Peers to Ministers and Agency Chief Executives in Government Equalities Office 20 1438 63 2009 Department of Health 20 16008 93 Correspondence from MPs / Peers to Ministers and Agency Chief Medicines and Healthcare Products 20 516 95* Executives 1 2009 Regulatory Agency Target 20 22 77** set for %of NHS Purchasing and Supplies 20 33 94 reply Number of replies Agency (working letters within Department or Agency days) received target *Agency Ministerial cases ** Letters sent directly to agency Attorney General’s Office 20 192 88 chief executive or where agency chief executives responded on behalf of Ministers Department for Business, Innovation 15 17623 58 & Skills 2 Home Office 15 9128 88 Companies House 10 96 100 Criminal Records Bureau 10 933 99 Insolvency Service 10 794 74 Identity and Passport Service 10 1012 72 UK Intellectual Property Office 10 481 88 UK Border Agency 20 66320 78

Cabinet Office 15 1444 82 Department for International 15 2013 95 Development Charity Commission 10 214 78

Ministry of Justice 5 20 4554 63 Department for Children, 15 15256 78 HM Courts Service 20 729 65 Schools and Families HM Land Registry 20 52 96 National Archives 20 60 95 Department for Communities 15 9154 63 National Offender Management 20 1723 60 and Local Government Service Planning Inspectorate 10 184 90 Northern Ireland Court Service 20 16 88 Office of the Public Guardian 20 220 82 Crown Prosecution Service 15 483 96 Official Solicitor and Public 20 32 50 Trustee Tribunals Service 20 273 66 Department for Culture, Media 20 3215 56 and Sport 3 Royal Parks 20 30 93 Northern Ireland Office 15 637 85 Compensation Agency 10 15 73 Ministry of Defence 15 6254 86 Northern Ireland Prison Service 10 79 77 Met Office 10 14 93 Service Personnel and Veterans 15 198 94 Office for National Statistics 10 112 79 Agency Office for Standards in 7 232 58 Education, Children’s Services Department for Energy and 15 9071 51 and Schools Climate Change 4 Office of Fair Trading 15 497 72 49WS Written Ministerial Statements16 MARCH 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 50WS

Correspondence from MPs / Peers to Ministers and Agency Chief Executives in Correspondence from MPs / Peers to Ministers and Agency Chief Executives in 2009 2009

Correspondence from MPs / Peers to Correspondence from MPs / Peers to Ministers and Agency Chief Ministers and Agency Chief 1 Executives 1 2009 Executives 2009 Target Target set for %of set for %of reply Number of replies reply Number of replies (working letters within (working letters within Department or Agency days) received target Department or Agency days) received target Pension, Disability and 15 2292 84 Office of Gas and Electricity 15 200 77 Carers Service Markets 1 Departments and Agencies which received 10 MPs/Peers letters or fewer are not shown in this table. Holding or interim replies are not included unless Office of the Leader of the 15 418 72 otherwise indicated. The report does not include correspondence considered as House of Commons freedom of information requests. Office of the Leader of the 15 63 92 2 Includes BERR and DIUS. Following an increase in correspondence relating House of Lords to the recession, a review has been undertaken to improve performance and recommendations are now being implemented. Performance rose to 73 per Office of Rail Regulation 20 93 92 cent. by end of 2009. 3 An external review was undertaken mid-year, from which an action plan was Office of Water Services 10 404 58 agreed. Performance rose to 73 per cent. by end of 2009. 4 Postal Services Commission 7 13 77 In 2009 DECC’s correspondence was handled by a shared services system. DECC now has its own correspondence unit which will lead to an improvement in the handling of correspondence. 5 A substantial increase in the volume of correspondence received by MOJ has Scotland Office 6 15 75 40 contributed to a downturn in performance. Measures are in place to improve correspondence handling as a matter of urgency and these have led to a significant improvement. Performance rose to 86 per cent. by end of 2009. 6 The drop in performance in 2009 is largely attributable to delays in receiving Serious Fraud Office 20 43 81 essential information. Measures have been put in place to improve our correspondence process as a matter of urgency, including systematic monitoring by senior management. 7 Performance has been affected by a significant increase in all correspondence Department for Transport 15 9150 89 to the Treasury, creating a backlog of cases in the first half of 2009. This has Driver Vehicle Licensing Agency 7 1486 100 been addressed over the course of the year and performance rose to 59 per cent. by end of 2009. Driving Standards Agency 10 185 99 Highways Agency 15 443 94 Maritime and Coastguard 10 12 91 COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Agency Vehicle and Operator Services 10 112 98 Housing and Planning Delivery Grant Agency

The Minister for Housing (John Healey): I am announcing HM Treasury 7 15 16251 53 today the final allocations of £135 million of housing H M Revenue and Customs 15 5492 75 and planning delivery grant (HPDG) for 2009-10. The grant provides a direct incentive for councils to work 15 774* 81 with partners in the public and private sector to ensure National Savings and 15 19 79 that new homes are built where they are needed. It is an Investments additional top up to mainstream funding and councils Office of Government 15 47 85 can choose how to spend it locally. Commerce A copy of the determination and a table showing the 15 93** 93 local authority allocations is available in the Libraries * Local office and ‘delegated’ of both Houses. figures (where local tax offices have replied directly to MPs) ** Letters where chief executive FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE has replied Valuation Office 18 25 72 EU Foreign Ministers (Informal Meeting)

Treasury Solicitor’s Department 10 32 100 The Minister for Europe (Chris Bryant): My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary represented the UK at the informal meeting of EU Foreign Ministers— Wales Office 15 101 82 Gymnich—on 5-6 March in Cordoba, Spain. The agenda items covered were as follows: Emerging Powers Department for Work and 20 18062 76 Pensions High Representative Ashton opened by saying the Child Maintenance and 15 6352 99 EU’s relationship with the strategic powers was one of Enforcement Commission her top priorities. The transatlantic relationship remained

Debt Management 15 43 86 central, but we also needed close engagement with countries like China, Brazil, India, South Africa and Health and Safety Executive 15 117 66 Russia. If the EU wanted to be relevant, we needed a Jobcentre Plus 15 2847 93 direct relationship with these key players. 51WS Written Ministerial Statements16 MARCH 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 52WS

The Presidency—Moratinos—led a wide-ranging where local services will join up so that families have continuous discussion of the EU’s approach to the emerging powers care and support from early pregnancy to at least the child’s following the changes to its structures brought about by sixth month—with a named Sure Start children’s centre contact the Lisbon treaty. Most Ministers agreed that we needed offered to parents early in pregnancy who will invite them into the children’s centre, and access to a health visitor for every to make better use of summits and other meetings with children’s centre; these countries and in general take a more strategic and where families will also be offered more help to prepare for medium-term view of our relations, including now that parenthood so they can give their baby the best possible start the High Representative had a five-year term in which in life—with new antenatal education opportunities rolled out to work. in settings that suit parents and with a further focus on the opportunities for fathers to get more involved—including an External Action Service invitation for both parents to attend a family start meeting at Discussion of the EAS spanned both days. The High their children’s centre and an opportunity to agree a parents’ Representative set out her thoughts and vision for the plan together; and EAS including that it should bring coherence to all the understanding that families will have very different needs, and EU’s external activities. The Foreign Secretary and other that some may want more support in preparing for parenthood, Ministers expressed their support for the High with extra support for those families that need it —for instance Representative and the need for a strong and effective by expanding the family nurse partnership to help young, EAS as a key tool to help deliver Europe’s priorities. vulnerable first-time families. Middle East Peace Process With over 3,500 Sure Start children’s centres now established across the country, in addition to the existing The presidency led a short discussion on the middle network of GP surgeries and health centres, we are well east peace process, focusing on how to take forward the placed to reach all families, and to make sure all families December 2009 Council conclusions. The High can draw on the support they want in preparing for and Representative set out her plans to visit the region. bringing up their baby. Western Balkans The three Ministers of the candidate countries—The Former Yogoslav Republic of Macedonia, Croatia and Health and Social Care (Volunteering) Turkey—joined EU Foreign Ministers for a discussion. The High Representative and Commissioner Füle stressed the importance of the region for the EU. The The Minister of State, Department of Health (Phil future of the region lay within Europe, and Europe Hope): The Government have announced today the would be judged by the effectiveness of its support to its launch of a strategic vision for volunteering for health neighbourhood. On visas, Commissioner Füle said the and social care. “Volunteering—involving people and Commission would make recommendations in respect communities in delivering and developing health and of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Albania following recent social care services” has been placed in the Library and work. copies are available for hon. Members from the Vote Office. The vision is of a health and social care environment in which volunteering is encouraged and supported HEALTH wherever it has the power to reduce inequality, enhance service quality or improve outcomes for individuals and Maternity and Early Years communities. The strategic vision has been developed by the Department in consultation with a wide range of stakeholders from across the third sector, national health The Secretary of State for Health (Andy Burnham): service and local government. The Government have announced today the launch of a The Government’s emphasis for the future of health strategic vision for the further transformation of maternity and social care is on better and more personalised services and early years services. “Maternity and Early services. “High Quality Care for All” urges the NHS to Years—Making a Good Start to Family Life” has been place quality at the heart of everything it does. “Putting placed in the Library and copies are available for hon. People First” and the transformation of adult social Members from the Vote Office. care services increasingly place individuals in control of The document has been developed jointly by the decisions about the services they receive and the resources Department of Health, the Department for Children, that pay for them. These developments present new Schools and Families and the Prime Minister’s strategy roles and opportunities for volunteering that complement unit, drawing on the views of mothers and fathers, services provided by the paid work force and engage the children’s centre staff, local health practitioners and expertise of service users in the design and delivery of children. services. “Maternity and Early Years—Making a Good Start Volunteers already make an enormous difference to to Family Life” makes the clear case for helping families the experience people have of the health and care services to give their baby the best possible start in life and sets they come into contact with—making a huge contribution out a vision of renewed and more integrated maternity to almost every sphere of health and social care. and early years services that put the excellent clinical Volunteering helps to create people-centred services; care already available at the centre of a wider network keeps people active, engaged and independent; and of family support: helps to meet the support needs of patients, carers and with commitments to consult on new entitlements for women users of care services. It can and does contribute significantly to access maternity services early in pregnancy and make to: quality, choice and innovation in services; building important choices around where to have their baby; social capital and reduced isolation; enhancing the capacity 53WS Written Ministerial Statements16 MARCH 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 54WS of preventative care; meeting the culturally specific “that abandoning the control orders system entirely would have a needs of health and social care service users; and increasing damaging effect on national security. There is no better means of connections between citizens and the services they use. dealing with the serious and continuing risk posed by some individuals.” Together these build a strong case for people across the health and social care system to refresh their thinking Lord Carlile emphasises that in reaching this conclusion about volunteering and its role in their organisation or he has community. The strategic vision provides a starting “considered the effects of the court decisions on disclosure. I do point and an opportunity for leaders in this field to be not consider that their effect is to make control orders impossible”. at the forefront of service innovation, community Lord Carlile’s conclusion supports our view that control engagement and improved user experience. orders continue to be an important tool to protect the Articulating key messages and a framework for action public from the risk of terrorism where individuals who in relation to leadership, partnership, commissioning, we suspect of involvement in terrorism-related activity volunteer management, and support for individual cannot be prosecuted or deported. volunteers, the vision is designed to engage everybody The powers in the 2005 Act have now been renewed working in the health and social care system, in the by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the public and third sectors, to support its aim to: enhance Home Department for a further year from 11 March the profile and involvement of volunteers; highlight its 2010, after both Houses of Parliament supported its potential in terms of health and well-being; improve the renewal. evidence base for investment; promote best practice; reduce obstacles and increase opportunities that make The exercise of the control order powers in the last volunteering accessible to all; and inspire and enable quarter change to support its delivery. As explained in previous quarterly statements on control orders, control order obligations are tailored to the individual concerned and are based on the terrorism- related risk that individual poses. Each control order is HOME DEPARTMENT kept under regular review to ensure that obligations remain necessary and proportionate. The Home Office continues to hold control order review groups (CORGs) Control Order Powers (Three-month Report) every quarter, with representation from law enforcement and intelligence agencies, to keep the obligations in every control order under regular and formal review and to facilitate a review of appropriate exit strategies. The Minister for Policing, Crime and Counter-Terrorism During this reporting period, no CORGs were held in (Mr. David Hanson): Section 14(1) of the Prevention of relation to the orders currently in force. This is because Terrorism Act 2005 (the 2005 Act) requires the Secretary meetings were held just before, and are due to be held of State to report to Parliament as soon as reasonably just after, this reporting period. Other meetings were practicable after the end of every relevant three-month held on an ad hoc basis as specific issues arose. period on the exercise of the control order powers during that period. During the period 11 December 2009 to 10 March The level of information provided will always be 2010, one non-derogating control order has been made subject to slight variations based on operational advice. and served. No control orders have been renewed in accordance with section 2(6) of the 2005 Act in this The control order regime reporting period. In this reporting period there have In the 16 September 2009 quarterly report to Parliament been two revocations of control orders that were in on control orders, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of force. Neither control order was revoked because it was State for the Home Department made clear that he not possible to meet the disclosure test set out in the considered that the control order regime remained viable House of Lords judgment in AF & Others. The Secretary following the June 2009 House of Lords judgment in of State revoked one control order because it was no AF & Others, but intended to keep that assessment longer considered necessary, and was directed by the under review as cases were considered by the courts. court to revoke another on the basis that the court The High Court has upheld four control orders since considered that the order was no longer necessary. the House of Lords judgment, following court proceedings In total, 11 control orders are currently in force, 10 of that were compliant with the article 6 test laid down in which are in respect of British citizens. All of these AF & Others. The Government therefore remain of the control orders are non-derogating. Six individuals subject view that the regime remains viable. The Government’s to a control order live in the Metropolitan Police Service position was set out in greater detail in their memorandum area; the remaining individuals live in other police force to the Home Affairs Committee on post-legislative scrutiny areas. Two individuals have been charged with breaching of the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 (Cm 7797), their control order obligations; no criminal proceedings which was laid before Parliament on 1 February. for breach of a control order were concluded during My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the this reporting period. Home Department also asked the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, Lord Carlile, to consider in his During this reporting period, 44 modifications of fifth annual report on the operation of the 2005 Act the control order obligations were made; 13 requests to continuing viability of the control order regime in the modify control order obligations were refused. light of AF & Others. I welcome the conclusion of Lord Section 10(1) of the 2005 Act provides a right of Carlile in that report, which was laid before Parliament appeal against a decision by the Secretary of State to on 1 February renew a non-derogating control order or to modify an 55WS Written Ministerial Statements16 MARCH 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 56WS obligation imposed by a non-derogating control order to appeal to the Court of Appeal. One individual has without consent. One appeal under section 10(1) of the been granted permission to appeal to the Supreme 2005 Act has been lodged with the High Court during Court. this reporting period. A right of appeal is also provided Most full judgments are available at http://www.bailii.org/. for by section 10(3) of the 2005 Act against decisions by the Secretary of State to refuse a request by a controlled person to revoke their order and/or to modify any obligation under the order. During this reporting period JUSTICE two appeals have been lodged with the High Court under section 10(3) of the 2005 Act. “Cutting Crime: The Case for Justice Reinvestment” Judgments have been handed down in relation to five control orders in substantive judicial review proceedings under section 3(10) of the 2005 Act during this reporting The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Maria period. Four of these control orders have been upheld Eagle): I have laid today before Parliament the Government by the courts. The five judgments are these: response to the Justice Committee report: “Cutting Judgment was handed down by the High Court in Crime: the case for justice reinvestment”. This document Secretary of State for the Home Department v. BG & BH sets out the response of the Government to the report on 15 December 2009. Both control orders were upheld. published by the House of Commons Justice Committee No further detail can be given for legal reasons. in January 2010. Judgment was handed down in Secretary of State for In January 2008 the Justice Committee launched an the Home Department v. AM on 21 December 2009. The inquiry into the cost implications of the Government’s High Court upheld this control order as necessary and current strategy to reduce reoffending and potential proportionate, finding that there was overwhelming alternative policies. The Committee’s report contains evidence of AM’s past involvement in terrorism-related 98 recommendations and conclusions and these make a activity and his future intentions. AM sought permission case for a systematic approach to justice reinvestment as to appeal against this judgment on various grounds and a way to reduce the size of the prison population, as permission has been granted. well as providing an analysis of the current strategy for reducing reoffending and cutting crime. We are very In Secretary of State for the Home Department v. grateful to the Committee for their contribution in this Al-Saadi, also handed down on 21 December 2009, the important debate. High Court found that while it was necessary for him to be placed on a control order when it was initially The Government share with the Committee the ambition imposed, it was no longer necessary. The court directed to tackle both crime and the causes of crime: to reserve the Secretary of State to revoke the control order. custody for the most serious offenders; to make full use of tough community sentences that demand change Judgment in Secretary of State for the Home Department from the offender and maintain public confidence; and v. BM was handed down on 16 February 2010. The to invest in ‘what works’ in reducing reoffending. The control order was upheld by the court on the grounds Government approach involves punishment for breaking that there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that the law, and giving offenders the opportunity to reform BM is or has been involved in terrorism-related activity and turn away from crime. The aim is to ensure justice and that the imposition of a control order on him is for victims and local communities; punishment and necessary for purposes connected with protecting the reform for offenders; and, ultimately, value for the public from a risk of terrorism. taxpayer. This is a complex undertaking, and one in A judgment was handed down on 18 January 2010 in which we have already achieved much: according to the the case Secretary of State for the Home Department v. British crime survey, crime has dropped by over a third AE&AF. This determined two preliminary issues: since 1997, and adult reoffending is down 20.3 per cent. whether in circumstances where the requirements of since 2000 and 11.1 per cent. since 2005. However, we article 6 of the ECHR compel the Secretary of State to want to go further and will reflect carefully on the withdraw the material relied upon in support of a Committee’s analysis and recommendations. control order such that the order cannot be maintained, Government have a duty to protect the public, and a the court should quash the control order or direct key element of this is to provide sufficient prison places revocation; and whether the disclosure requirements for the most dangerous, serious and persistent offenders. identified in AF & Others apply where the Secretary of We are clear that prison remains the right option for State wishes to rely upon closed material to defend these offenders and that a prison sentence, long or against a claim for damages by a controlled person. The short, can be essential to demonstrating to law-abiding court found that in these circumstances the order should communities that offenders face the full range of be quashed and that the requirements in AF & Others punishments, including the deprivation of liberty behind does apply, although the judge commented that it did bars. We must ensure therefore, that prison is available not follow that the controlled individuals would as an option for sentencers when necessary. The automatically succeed on liability on all claims against Government are committed to increasing prison capacity the Secretary of State, and that even if they did recover to 96,000 places by 2014 to meet projected demand. any damages, the level of compensation payable was Nevertheless, we recognise that for a significant likely to be low. The Secretary of State is appealing number of offenders community sentences can be more against the judgment. effective: in 2008, the number of people sentenced to In addition to the appeals to the Court of Appeal community sentences was 190,171 compared to 99,525 mentioned above, one further individual subject to a for immediate custody. More can be done as part of a control order has applied for, and been granted, permission wider approach that includes tough community sentences 57WS Written Ministerial Statements16 MARCH 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 58WS for lower-risk offenders and diversion away from the As the terms of this contract have been finalised, the criminal justice system where other alternatives would Government are able now to set out their plans for be more effective, in particular access to mental health financing NEST. services. NEST will be paid for by member charges. In the Innovations such as intensive alternatives to custody, long term, it will be self-financing, and Government integrated offender management, and the prolific and expect it to realise the Pensions Commission’s ambition other priority offenders programme, are clear examples of a charge level as low as 0.3 per cent. of members’ of how partners can work together to focus resources funds under management—an annual management charge where they can make the greatest impact. Our work to (AMC) of 0.3 per cent. take forward the recommendations set out in the Corston Nevertheless, NEST will need to meet set-up and and Bradley reviews (for women in prison and offenders operational costs incurred in the period before charge with mental illnesses respectively) demonstrates our revenues are sufficient to meet the full costs of the commitment to ensuring better use of community scheme. Therefore, NEST is expected to make a small alternatives where this is possible and safe to do. additional charge on contributions of around 2 per The Government seek to ensure that prison is used in cent., until set-up costs are extinguished. a measured, responsible way on behalf of the wider This means the members of NEST, many of whom community, that what happens in prison is effective and are expected to have low and moderate earnings, will, efficiently delivered, and that resources can be used in for the first time, be able to save for a pension while both custody and the community to reduce reoffending. facing charges at levels currently only available to higher Our detailed response is set out in the Government earners, or those accepted into large pension schemes. response to the Justice Committee report “Cutting Crime: the case for justice reinvestment”, copies of which have NEST will have a public service duty, to accept all been placed in the Vote Office and the Printed Paper employers who want to use the scheme to discharge Office. their duty to automatically enrol workers, irrespective of costs. This means NEST will be required to bear costs other pension providers do not face. In recognition of this, and in order to preserve the scheme’s low-cost WORK AND PENSIONS aims, the Government intend to provide relief to the scheme to limit the overall interest charges scheme National Employment Savings Trust members incur on funds borrowed to the Government’s cost of borrowing. The Government are currently seeking the European Commission’s approval that this approach The Minister for Pensions and the Ageing Society is consistent with European rules on competition and (Angela Eagle): I can confirm the Personal Accounts state aid. Delivery Authority signed yesterday the contract for the The Government believe that this funding package administration of NEST with Tata Consultancy Services. represents a fair balance between delivering good value This marks another important milestone on the road to to NEST’s members, ensuring affordability for the taxpayer delivering a pension scheme for the millions of people and putting NEST on a level playing field with the currently excluded from low-cost pension saving. existing pensions industry. 13P Petitions16 MARCH 2010 Petitions 14P

Committee to determine whether approval should be Petitions granted or not on the 27 May 2010. The determination of planning applications is primarily Tuesday 16 March 2010 the responsibility of the Borough Council as local planning authority, and the Secretary of State cannot comment on the merits or otherwise of any application, or prospective PRESENTED PETITIONS application. Decisions on planning applications are required to be in accordance with the adopted development plan, unless material considerations indicate otherwise. The COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Government’s statements of national planning policy are material considerations which must be taken into Planning and Development (Essex) account, where relevant, in planning decisions, but it is The Petition of Brian Keeler, the residents of Castle the responsibility of the local planning authority to Point and others, identify and weigh up all the different issues, in the Declares that they object to the proposed development context of the specific local circumstances, having regard of the area between Nos. 18 to 32 High Road, Benfleet to the views of local residents and other interested to construct a building providing 5 Retail Units at parties. Ground Level, 22 Parking Spaces, 2 Offices, plus 12 x 2 The Secretary of State may decide to call in an bedflatsand2x1bedflatsat1stand2ndfloor levels; application for his own determination where he considers that this development should be rejected because the that it raises issues of more than local importance, but proposed, much larger building would dominate and his policy is to be very selective about this. As it is overlook existing properties, bring unacceptable problems possible that the proposal may, at some future date, including inadequate parking, fails to show where access come within his jurisdiction, it would be inappropriate to and from the site parking area will be, bearing in to comment on the matter raised in the petition. mind an existing public parking area in Adelaide Gardens, Planning and Development (Essex) vague refuse storage area, restricted sight lines for emerging The Petition of residents of Stanway Road and surrounding traffic from St. Mary’s Drive, reduction of the pavement, areas, loss of light entering adjoining buildings and relocation of the heritage telephone kiosk and post box; further Declares that we are strongly opposed to the proposed declares that this development would further spoil the plans application CPT/2/10/FUL to further extend the Conservation Area and create unacceptable stress on boundary fencing and gates of the business operating at the existing infrastructure, including roads, schools, 77 Stanway Road and believe that if the council pass rail, doctors, dentists, etc.; that for these and many these plans it will further spoil the appearance of the other valid planning reasons this application should be area, will result in more commercial traffic and street rejected by the local Councillors, elected to represent parking in this area, more noise and disturbance to us their constituents, and that given the importance to the and will allow the business at 77 to further dominate the wider community of protecting this unique Conservation area. Area, unelected and unaccountable officers must properly The Petitioners therefore request that the House of and widely consult the public before permitting such Commons urge the Government to encourage Castle developments. Point Borough Councillors, Essex County Councillors The Petitioners therefore request that the House of and the Highways Authority, to take urgent and tough Commons urges the Government to press Castle Point action to immediately end the improper land grabbing Borough Council, and all Councillors, to reject this and fencing off of highway land in this otherwise quiet planning application and to substantially protect the and respectable residential area and take appropriate unique St Mary’s Conservation area action to force the business back to the proper boundaries for this site, in the wider public interest. And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Bob Spink, Official Report, 2 February 2010; Vol. 505, Bob Spink, Official Report, 9 February 2010; Vol. 505, c. 274.] c. 884.] [P000726] [P000734] Observations from the Secretary of State for Communities Observations from the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government: and Local Government: The Secretary of State for Communities and Local The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government is aware that a planning application has Government is aware that a planning application has been submitted to Castle Point Borough Council in been submitted to Castle Point borough council in respect of the above development. He is advised that respect of the above development. He has been advised the planning application was registered on 24 December that planning application was refused by the council’s 2009 and is currently expected to go before the Planning planning committee on 2 March 2010.

721W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 722W

Written Answers to Bidding organisation Number of jobs Project Scotland 153 Raploch Urban Regeneration 35 Questions Company Real Work Skills Ltd. 10 Tuesday 16 March 2010 Renfrewshire Council 203 Scottish Borders Council 51 Scottish Council for Voluntary 330 Organisations Scottish Council for Voluntary 1,464 SCOTLAND Organisations Scottish Council for Voluntary 390 Future Jobs Fund Services Scottish Forestry Commission 210 Scottish Premier League 432 Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Secretary of State for Scottish Wildlife Trust 61 Scotland pursuant to the answer of 24 February 2010, Scottish Wildlife Trusts 400 Official Report, column 552W, on the Future Jobs South Ayrshire Council 57 Fund, which projects the Future Jobs Fund is South Ayrshire Workforce Plus 15 supporting in Scotland, and how many jobs have been Forum provided through each project. [322406] South Lanarkshire Council 1,200 Stirling Council Youth Services 31 Ann McKechin: By the end of the eighth bidding The Bambury Regeneration Centre 60 round announced on 15 March 2010, the Government Third Sector Hebrides 165 have approved 58 Future Jobs Fund bids to create up to West Dunbartonshire Council 70 10,328 jobs in Scotland. West Lothian Council 30 West Lothian Council 150 Bidding organisation Number of jobs Workers’ Educational Association 90 Aberdeen City Council 28 Total 10,328 Aberdeen Works 32 Taxation Aberdeenshire Council 23 Angus Council 34 Angus Council 50 Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for Apex Scotland 30 Scotland what assessment he has made of the Argyll and Bute Council 50 economic effects in England of the tax proposals set Employability Team out in paragraphs 4.13 to 4.39 of Scotland’s Future in Argyll and Bute Council 30 the United Kingdom, Cm 7738. [322282] Employability Team Argyll Training 35 Ann McKechin: The tax proposals set out in the Barnardo’s Scotland 20 Government’s White Paper “Scotland’s Future in the Big Issue Scotland 10 United Kingdom”will deliver real financial accountability City of Edinburgh Council 80 to the Scottish Parliament and, once fully implemented, City of Edinburgh Council 57 mean that a substantial proportion of the Scottish Clackmannanshire Alliance 77 budget will derive directly from taxes determined and Coalfield Regeneration Trust 30 raised in Scotland. At the same time, the proposals Dumfries and Galloway Council 91 safeguard the economic and administrative efficiencies Dundee City Council 51 inherent to the unified tax system within the United Dundee Partnership 158 Kingdom. East Ayrshire Council 483 East Ayrshire Council 155 East Dunbartonshire Council 60 East Lothian Council 26 ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Falkirk Council 90 Fife Council 238 Floods: Gloucestershire Fife Council 122 Glasgow City Council 250 Mr. Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of Glasgow City Council 300 State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how Highland Council 203 much (a) his Department and (b) the Environment Inverclyde Council 240 Agency have provided to (i) Tewkesbury council and M. I. Technologies 30 (ii) Gloucestershire county council for flood prevention Midlothian Council 45 schemes since the flooding of July 2007; and if he will Midlothian Council 108 make a statement. [321053] Moray Council Community 15 Partnership Huw Irranca-Davies: DEFRA provides grants to North Ayrshire Council 180 operating authorities in England to manage the risks of North Lanarkshire Council 1,200 flooding and coastal erosion. DEFRA’s grants to the Perth and Kinross Community 90 Environment Agency to tackle flooding increased from Planning Partnership £499.8 million in 2007-08 to £659 million in 2010-11. 723W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 724W

The Environment Agency has provided Tewkesbury The Environment Agency has not provided funding borough council with £75,000 for capital improvement to either Tewkesbury borough council or Gloucestershire works. £119,000 has been allocated to Tewkesbury borough county council for repairs relating to the 2007 flooding. council for property level flood protection and resilience measures. Seals: Canada DEFRA has allocated Gloucestershire county council Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for £200,000 for surface water management. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when he last discussed the seal hunt in Canada with the Canadian Mr. Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of Government. [322677] State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much (a) his Department and (b) the Environment Jim Fitzpatrick: The Secretary of State has not held Agency have provided to (i) Tewkesbury council and recent discussions with the Canadian Government on (ii) Gloucestershire county council for repairs relating the seal hunt in Canada. to flooding of July 2007; and if he will make a The Government’s opposition to the annual Canadian statement. [321054] seal hunt is well known and remains unchanged. We have lobbied since 2006 to promote EU wide action and Huw Irranca-Davies: The Government made a on 23 July 2008, the European Commission proposed comprehensive package of over £136 million available an EU wide ban on trade in seal products from a range to support areas affected by the flooding of summer of species where it cannot be proved that the seals were 2007. killed humanely. This included around £19 million provided by the Tree Planting Department for Communities and Local Government (CLG) through the Bellwin Scheme. Flood-affected local Mr. Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for authorities applied for help through the scheme, which Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps he is provides financial assistance to local authorities dealing taking to encourage the Forestry Commission to assist with emergencies. Exceptionally, the terms of the scheme in the acquisition and replanting of agricultural land were made more generous because of the circumstances with native species of trees. [321538] of the 2007 floods. Through the Bellwin scheme £2.8 million was provided Huw Irranca-Davies: The Delivery Plan for our Strategy to Gloucestershire county council and £350,000 to for England’s Trees, Woods and Forest produced by the Tewkesbury borough council. In addition £950,000 million Forestry Commission and Natural England includes was provided to the Gloucestershire police authority. the objective to create new woodland in priority areas. The English Woodland Grant Scheme administered The other main elements of the £136 million package by the Forestry Commission offers incentives to landowners are: to encourage them to plant trees. These grants are part Around £41 million from the Department for Transport for of the Rural Development Programme for England repairs to the local highway. 2007-13. Under the scheme rules it is not permissible to £30.6 million from CLG, through the Restoration Fund, that reimburse costs of land acquisition, but the grants do we have been able to release through a successful European cover a proportion of the planting costs and the agricultural Union Solidarity Fund bid. income foregone. The current target for new woodland £18.4 million from CLG for Flood Recovery Grant to support creation is 2,200 hectares per year of which 2,000 hectares the recovery work of local authorities, and particularly their are expected to be on agricultural land. work with those in greatest and most immediate need. The latest £1 million released on 31 January was allocated to the In the 2009 Low Carbon Transition Plan we set out nine local authorities with the highest number of households our intention to support a new drive to encourage still displaced. private funding for woodland creation and options to £13.5 million from the Department for Children, School and achieve this are being explored by the Forestry Commission Families for schools and children’s services affected by the and DEFRA. floods. A total of 858 schools were damaged in the June floods and those in July. Mr. Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps he is Over £11 million from Regional Development Agencies for businesses affected in their regions. taking to encourage the Forestry Commission to reduce the number of trees planted per acre for new Over £1.2 million from CLG for local authorities giving council growth. [321539] tax discounts, so families do not face council tax bill for homes they could not live in. Huw Irranca-Davies: We are not taking any steps to £1 million which could be drawn on as contingency reserve by encourage the Forestry Commission or other landowners the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) for use by to reduce the number of trees planted per hectare and Jobcentre Plus to support additional demand for Social Fund there is no reason to do so. The English Woodland Community Care Grants. DWP paid Community Care Grants and Crisis Loans totalling £810,891 to people on qualifying Grant Scheme, administered by the Forestry Commission benefits to meet the cost of replacing essential household and which supports most new woodland creation, allows items. for trees to be planted at a range of densities depending on the purpose of the woodland. These include densities £1 million from the Department for Culture Media and Sport to support rural tourism in England through promoting rural as low as 100 trees per hectare for ‘special’ broadleaves destinations and visitor attractions. It will also be used to fund such as poplar, ranging through 1,600 trees per hectare a targeted marketing campaign for the regions of England and for native woodlands and up to 2,250 trees per hectare businesses such as B and Bs, caravan parks and attractions. for ‘standard’ woodlands. 725W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 726W

CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT The Gorton constituency has also benefitted from other policies and spending whose impact cannot be Departmental Internet broken down by constituency. This includes: £4 billion of Exchequer funding spent on culture Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, More than £5.5 billion invested in sport by the Government Media and Sport pursuant to the answer of and the national lottery since 1997. 24 February 2010, Official Report, column 565W, on Over 2 million free swims taken in the north-west region since departmental internet, what the cost was of the website the Free Swimming programme was introduced. redesign; and what estimate he has made of the cost of A 68 per cent. increase in national museum visits from 1998-99 to 2008-09—10 per cent. of which were by adults from lower the latest redesign. [321933] socioeconomic groups. Mr. Sutcliffe: The design costs for the redesign of the £416.6 million in grants allocated by English Heritage since 1997. website in 2005 were £31,104.54. 48 per cent. of buildings on the original 1999 Buildings at Risk In 2009-10 the Department for Culture, Media and Register having their future secured. Sport commissioned a digital agency to design and 90 per cent. of all pupils taking part in at least two hours of create five themed landing pages for its website. This high quality PE or sport per week in 2008 from an estimated 25 work is essential to bring the current site up to date, by per cent. in 2003-04—exceeding our target. providing better access to content allowing more flexibility and the ability to pull in relevant social media feeds Local Government: Statistics (which the current single homepage cannot support). The total cost for design was £8,383.75. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport pursuant to the answer of Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, 3 February 2010, Official Report, column 341W, on Media and Sport how many designs for its (a) internal local government finance, what performance data local website and (b) intranet his Department has authorities regularly submit on libraries and museums commissioned since 2005; and what the cost was of to the Museums Libraries and Archives Council. each such design. [321984] [319795]

Mr. Sutcliffe: We have not commissioned any designs Margaret Hodge: There is no requirement for local for the intranet since 2005. authorities to submit performance data on libraries and museums to the Museums Libraries and Archives Council. Greater Manchester The MLA: 1. Part-fund the collection of local authority data relating to Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for National Indicator Set 9 and 10 (in order to enable libraries and Culture, Media and Sport if he will set out, with museums to manage their own performance better). Local authority statistical information related as directly as possible to National Indicator Sets are required by the Department for Manchester, Gorton constituency, the effects on that Communities and Local Government. constituency of his Department’s policies since 1997. 2. Collects information (on Cultural Strategies, Business Plans, accounts and collecting policies) from all local authorities when [322132] they apply to become Accredited museums or Designated collections. The MLA also collect data returns from local authorities with Mr. Sutcliffe: My Department’s aim is to improve the Renaissance funded museums. This does not form part of the quality of life for everyone through cultural and sporting wider local authority performance framework. activities, to support the pursuit of excellence and to 3. Advises CIPFA on their annual public library statistics on champion the tourism, creative and leisure industries. expenditure, income, staffing and service provision, for all library The impact of bodies and policies of my Department authorities in England. on the Manchester, Gorton constituency since 1997 include: Summertime £316,615 given from Arts Council England to organisations based in Gorton in 2008-09 through the Grants for the Arts Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for programme. Culture, Media and Sport what recent discussions he Digital Switchover has been completed in the Gorton region, has had with the tourism industry on the merits of and by 2012, 98.5 per cent. of households nationwide will be introducing British Summer Time and Double British able to receive digital TV—the same number that can currently Summer Time. [322497] receive analogue. £1,416,994 of Exchequer investment to the Gorton constituency Margaret Hodge: The Secretary of State for Culture, provided through Sport England since 2002. Media and Sport and I have held a number of recent Over £20 million of national lottery grants made to applications discussions with the British Association of Leisure Parks, from the constituency since 1995. Piers, and Attractions (BALPPA) and other tourism The Big Lottery Fund and its predecessor bodies have awarded industry stakeholders about the potential benefits to £5,694,522 to projects located in the constituency since the DCMS sectors, including tourism and sport, of making 1996/97 financial year. This includes an award made in 2008-09 changes to British Summer Time (BST). of £446,140 for an active project to redevelop Levenshulme. United Reformed Church into a multi-purpose community The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills centre. (BIS) is the lead policy Department on BST, and the £117,483 of English Heritage grant offers to the Gorton DCMS have raised these issues with BIS for their constituency in 2008-09. consideration. 727W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 728W

Tourism: Poole Number

Mr. Syms: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, 2004 4,060 Media and Sport how much funding has been allocated 2005 4,050 to the promotion of tourism (a) in Poole and (b) 2006 4,080 nationally in each year since 1997. [320486] 2007 4,095 2008 4,085 Margaret Hodge: The information requested on funding to promote tourism in Poole is not held centrally. Figures for 2009 are not available at this time. Responsibility for tourism in the regions was taken over Departmental Lost Property by the regional development agencies (RDAs) in 2003. I have therefore asked the chief executive of the South West regional development agency to write to the John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales hon. Member for Poole directly. Copies of the response what property has been recorded as (a) lost and (b) will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. stolen from his Department in the last 12 months; and what estimate has been made of the cost of the The overall level of public sector investment in tourism replacement of that property. [322084] from local, regional and national sources will exceed £2 billion in the current spending review period (2008-09 Mr. Hain: One mobile telephone was recorded as to 2010-11). stolen. The replacement cost approximately £40. Nationally, funding to promote tourism is directed through VisitBritain and VisitEngland. VisitBritain’s Grant in Aid since 1997 (including VisitBritain’s predecessor bodies —the British Tourist TRANSPORT Authority and the English Tourism Council—up to Bus Services: Concessions 2002-03) is outlined in the following table:

£ million Mr. Drew: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport if he will assess the merits of introducing 1997-98 44.7 a concessionary bus travel scheme for persons aged (a) 1998-99 44.7 up to 15 years old and (b) between 16 and 19 years old; 1999-2000 47.2 and if he will estimate the cost to the public purse of 2000-01 47 introducing such a scheme in (i) England, (ii) 2001-02 64.1 Gloucestershire and (iii) Stroud constituency. [322051] 2002-03 68 2003-04 51.3 Mr. Khan: The Government have no plans at present 2004-05 48.4 to introduce a statutory bus concession for young people. 2005-06 48.9 Any extensions to the scope of the current statutory 2006-07 49.9 minimum would bring with them associated costs and 2007-08 50.7 would require careful consideration of the full impacts, 2008-09 49.9 including; the effect on limited spare bus capacity; the The rise in spending between 2001 and 2003 represents potential for distortion of the commercial bus market; the additional funding invested by the Government and and the impact on walking and cycling initiatives. the industry to support tourism in response to specific Local authorities are best placed to decide on the national and international events that occurred in and most appropriate discretionary concessions in their areas; immediately preceding this period (foot and mouth, offering far more flexibility than would be the case with 9/11 and SARS). a blanket statutory concession. The Department for Transport recently commissioned some research on the cost and impact of options for WALES extending the current statutory minimum concessionary Business: Montgomeryshire travel scheme. Based on this research, the Department estimates that it would cost: Lembit Öpik: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales (a) around an extra £1.2 billion per annum to extend the statutory how many businesses were registered in minimum concession to enable 5 to 16-year-olds to travel anytime Montgomeryshire in each year since 2001; and if he for free on buses England-wide. will make a statement. [322012] (b) around an extra £740 million per annum to extend the statutory minimum concession to enable 14 to 19-year-olds in Mr. Hain: Montgomeryshire has consistently had the full-time education to travel anytime for free on buses England-wide. second highest number of VAT registered businesses in The Department does not have any estimates for Wales after Brecon and Radnorshire. specific counties or constituencies. The number of enterprises registered for VAT at the start of each year in Montgomeryshire is as follows: Departmental Internet

Number Mr. Heald: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport pursuant to the answer of 4 March 2010, 2001 4,030 Official Report, column 1363W, on departmental 2002 4,035 internet, what the cost was of the website redesign. 2003 4,035 [321924] 729W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 730W

Chris Mole: The Department for Transport last Paul Clark: The Civil Service has a zero tolerance commissioned a new design for its corporate website policy on bullying and harassment. in 2005: The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency has had no www.dft.gov.uk contact with the National Bullying Helpline since 2004. The work to develop a new information architecture The Driver and vehicle Licensing Agency has made and associated usability testing cost £39,500 (net). The no payments to the National Bullying Helpline or HR subsequent work to develop a new visual design around and Diversity Management Limited in that period. the revised information architecture cost £55,825 (net). Railways: Chesham Mr. Heald: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how many designs for its (a) internal website and (b) intranet his Department has Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Minister of State, commissioned since 2005; and what the cost was of Department for Transport when he expects each such design. [321979] construction work on the High Speed Two route in Chesham and Amersham constituency to (a) Chris Mole: Since 2005 the Department has commence and (b) be completed. [322673] commissioned one new design for its intranet at a cost of £10,210 (ex VAT). The design work was part of a Chris Mole: As with any major infrastructure project, larger technical upgrade. there will need to be extensive and detailed consultation, particularly with local communities affected. We will East Coast Railway Line consult on the recommended route this autumn before the finalisation of Government policy and, if the decision Jim Cousins: To ask the Minister of State, is taken to proceed, will introduce a hybrid Bill following Department for Transport if he will make an further detailed work. assessment of the merits of increasing capacity for (a) Construction on the line would not begin until after passengers and (b) freight on the East Coast Main the completion of Crossrail from 2017, with services on Line, with particular reference to (i) the lengthening of a London to Birmingham line commencing from 2026 station platforms and (ii) the raising of freight loading at the earliest. Start and finish of works in specific gauges. [322242] locations would be subject to detailed work by HS2 Ltd. following decisions made after the autumn Chris Mole: The assessment of the merits of increasing consultation. capacity on the East Coast Main Line is a matter for Network Rail. The East Coast Main Line Route Utilisation Thameslink Railway Line: Rolling Stock Study was published by Network Rail in February 2008 and made recommendations for increasing the route’s capacity for both passenger and freight services. This Mr. Brady: To ask the Minister of State, Department can be found on Network Rail’s website at: for Transport whether he expects the electric multiple www.networkrail.co.uk unit trains cascaded from Thameslink stock for services in the North West to be in service by Motor Vehicles: Excise Duties March 2014. [322449] Chris Mole: The cascade of existing trains operating Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Minister of State, “Thameslink”services is made possible by the procurement Department for Transport what the cost to the Driver of new vehicles through the Thameslink Programme. and Vehicle Licensing Agency has been of The commercial negotiations on the procurement of administering the free prize draw for motorists the new vehicles are ongoing and until these are finalised, renewing their vehicle tax online or by telephone to it will not be possible to confirm the timing of the date. [322390] resulting cascades. Paul Clark: The administrative costs associated with the free prize draw for motorists renewing their vehicle tax online or by telephone are as follows: SOLICITOR-GENERAL £ BAE Systems: Fraud June 2008 to March 2009 13,697.69 April 2009 to March 2010 11,332.00 David Howarth: To ask the Solicitor-General (1) National Bullying Helpline what the total cost to the Serious Fraud Office was of the recently-settled case against BAE Systems; [318575] Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Minister of State, (2) what estimate she has made of the total cost to Department for Transport what contacts the Driver the Serious Fraud Office of its investigations into BAE and Vehicle Licensing Agency has had with the Systems to date. [318576] National Bullying Helpline since 2004; and whether the agency has made any payments to (a) the National The Solicitor-General: The SFO has not yet Bullying Helpline and (b) HR and Diversity assessed the costs involved since proceedings have not Management Limited in that period. [320131] concluded. 731W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 732W

Departmental Sick Leave Commons Commission decided that the proposals for a day nursery at Bellamy’s would not be placed before David Simpson: To ask the Solicitor-General how the Finance and Services Committee. [322446] many staff in the Law Officers’ Departments have had five or more periods of sickness absence of less than Nick Harvey: The Commission took the decision in five days in two or more of the last three years. principle on the setting up of a nursery facility at [316450] 1 Parliament street on 14 December 2009 with a view to making the facility available in the new Parliament. In The Solicitor-General: The information requested is view of the time constraint for its implementation, the as follows: Commission decided on this occasion not to refer the matter to the Finance and Services Committee. Crown Prosecution Service and Revenue and Customs Prosecution Office The number of staff who have had five or more periods of sickness absence of less than five days in two NORTHERN IRELAND or more of the last three years is 131. Departmental Lost Property The Serious Fraud Office In the last 12 months 19 staff had five or more short John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for term absences. The most recent available data before Northern Ireland what property has been recorded as this (2006-07) can be found at the following link: (a) lost and (b) stolen from his Department in the last http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/Assets/ 12 months; and what estimate has been made of the Sickness_Absence_2006to2007_tcm6-3302.pdf cost of the replacement of that property. [322081] Treasury Solicitors, Attorney-General’s Office and HM Crown Prosecution Inspection Services Paul Goggins: During the 12 month period from Over the three years 2007-09 there have been 27 people March 2009 to February 2010 the Northern Ireland who meet the criteria above. This represents less than Office (NIO), including its arm’s length bodies and the 3 per cent. of the total workforce. Public Prosecution Service Northern Ireland but excluding its agencies and NDPBs, recorded 12 floppy disks as The National Fraud Authority being lost in transit between Belfast and London. They The NFA was launched in 2008-09 and no members did not contain any personal or classified information. of staff are recorded as having had five or more periods As the disks were not replaced there was no cost of of sickness absence of less than five days during this replacement to the Department. period. No items of departmental property were reported as stolen during this period.

ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE Bearwood Corporate Services DEFENCE Armed Forces: Housing Chris Huhne: To ask the hon. Member for South West Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission from which (a) legal firms, Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) Queen’s counsel and (c) other sources the Defence how many single living accommodation units Electoral Commission sought advice in connection for service personnel in Scotland are in each standard with its investigation into Bearwood Corporate for condition. [322039] Services; and how much was paid for such advice in Mr. Kevan Jones [holding answer 12 March 2010]: each case. [322506] Single Living Accommodation (SLA) is not assessed Mr. Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me for its Standard for Condition, but Graded according that in addition to legal advice from its in-house Legal to its condition and ‘scale’, which includes things like Counsel, it also obtained legal advice from Queens the amount of storage and size. counsel, Michael Beloff QC and Andrew Mitchell QC; As at October 2009, the latest date for which figures and from junior barristers, Jane Collier and Sarah are available, SLA bed-spaces in Scotland were at the Palin. Payments to Queen’s counsel amounted to £61,000 following Grade. and payments to junior counsel amounted to £20,000. Grade SLA bed-spaces

1 3,395 HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION 2 1,104 3 2,188 Nurseries 4 1,078

Mr. Burns: To ask the hon. Member for North Armed Forces: Orthopaedics Devon, representing the House of Commons Commission pursuant to the oral answer of 11 March Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010, Official Report, columns 428-30, on a day Defence how many service personnel have had limbs nursery, whether the Chairman of the House of amputated in the last six months. [322518] 733W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 734W

Mr. Kevan Jones: I refer the hon. Member to the received coaching in a foreign language in the last answer I gave on 23 February 2010, Official Report, 12 months; what expenditure his Department incurred column 410W, to the hon. Member for North Devon in providing such coaching; and in what languages such (Nick Harvey). coaching was provided. [320411]

Ms Diana R. Johnson: No DCSF Ministers have CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES received coaching in a foreign language in the last 12 months. Academies: Finance With regard to civil servants, the Department does not collect this information centrally in the form requested. Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Information on external training courses attended by Children, Schools and Families if he will guarantee the employees in the last 12 months and the cost of each provision of funding at current levels for the course is held locally and could be obtained only at Academies programme in the next spending round. disproportionate cost. [322492] Mr. Coaker: The pre-Budget report announced a real Departmental Telephone Services terms increase of 0.7 per cent. for DCSF frontline services including schools for 2011-12 and 2012-13. The Mrs. Maria Miller: To ask the Secretary of State for remaining DCSF budgets for this period will be finalised Children, Schools and Families (1) how many and in the spending review later this year. Open academies which telephone helplines received funding from his will receive funding increases in line with those for Department in 2009; [318378] maintained schools and the 0.7 per cent. real terms increase already announced. (2) how many telephone calls were (a) received and (b) answered by each of the helplines funded by his Children: Social Services Department in each month since their commencement; [318379] Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, (3) how much funding each of the helplines funded Schools and Families how long each local authority’s by his Department receives each month. [318380] Director of Children’s Services has been in post. [321084] Ms Diana R. Johnson: The requested information Mr. Coaker: The Department does not collect this cannot be provided except at disproportionate cost. information. Departmental Temporary Employment Departmental Advertising

Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how much (a) his Children, Schools and Families which companies were Department and (b) each (i) non-departmental public contracted by his Department and its predecessor for body and (ii) executive agency for which his the provision of temporary staff in each of the last Department is responsible spent on advertising in 2009. three years; how many temporary staff were employed [317070] by his Department in each such year; and what the Ms Diana R. Johnson: It has not been possible to monetary value was of contracts with each such identify the Department’s spend on advertising in 2009 company in each such year. [317998] without incurring disproportionate cost. However, the Department’s spend on advertising in the 2008-09 financial Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department was created year was £13,891,106. on 28 June 2007. The Department has used three agencies Advertising expenditure by non-departmental public for the provision of its temporary staff (admin and bodies and executive agencies in 2009 cannot be obtained clerical)—Adecco, Reed Employment and Hays Office without incurring disproportionate cost Support. The contract with Adecco expired on 31 August 2007, when new contracts were established with Reed Departmental ICT and Hays. The number of temporary staff employed by the Mr. Hurd: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Department is as follows: Schools and Families how much his Department and its agencies spent on font licensing in the last three Number years. [315283] July to December 2007 98 Ms Diana R. Johnson: Since 2007 the Department of January to December 2008 207 Children, Schools and Families has not directly purchased January to December 2009 130 any font licences for related publications work that has been specifically billed. We are unable to provide the monetary value of the contracts as this is commercial in confidence. Departmental Languages For a small number of specialist temporary staff and Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State interim managers the Department has used other agencies for Children, Schools and Families how many (a) but information on this could only be obtained at Ministers and (b) civil servants in his Department disproportionate cost. 735W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 736W

Departmental Written Questions of 358 young people is working across 32 local authority children and young people’s services and the second cohort will start in March 2010. David Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families pursuant to the answer Volunteers are undertaking a range of placements of 10 February 2010, Official Report, columns 1087- from nurseries, children and youth centres to youth 8W, on departmental written questions, by what crime prevention, asylum seekers and substance misuse mechanism his Department monitors its responses to teams. Nearly 60 per cent. of the volunteers were not in parliamentary questions; what its target time is for education, employment or training prior to starting the responses; and how its performance against that target programme. is measured. [318385] In April 2009 the Prime Minister alongside Ministers for the Cabinet Office and the Department for Children, Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department has recently Schools and Families also announced a package of implemented a new IT system for monitoring its responses measures to support our ambition that, in time, all to parliamentary questions. This Department aims to young people should give at least 50 hours of their time ensure that Members receive a substantive response to between the ages of 14 and 19 to serve their communities. their named day question on the date specified, and The measures include: endeavours to answer ordinary written questions within incorporating community action into learning programmes for a working week of being tabled. The new system will 20,000 16 to 18-year-olds as part of Entry to Employment enable the Department’s performance to be measured programmes in 2009/10 and again as part of Foundation against these targets. Learning in 2010/11; the creation of five intensive local authority pilots to test Family Proceedings approaches to achieving near-universal participation among 14 to 16-year-olds; new ways of recognising participation in community action; Mr. Timpson: To ask the Secretary of State for and Children, Schools and Families what recent assessment he has made of the likely effects on the welfare of more support for schools to engage their pupils in this activity, to complement existing local support teams for 16 to children of the provisions in the Children, Schools and 25-year-olds. Families Bill on family court proceedings. [312932] Office for Standards in Education: Children’s Services Dawn Primarolo: Protecting the welfare of children is and Skills our paramount concern. In developing the proposals for the Bill, officials met and sought the views of various stakeholders including 11 Million, the Association of Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Directors of Children’s Services and the Association of Children, Schools and Families what recent Lawyers for Children. My hon. Friend the Member for representations he has received on the system of Lewisham, East (Bridget Prentice) also met the CAFCASS/ inspection operated by Ofsted. [321867] NYAS Young People’s Board to seek their views on proposals in the Bill. Mr. Coaker: As the Secretary of State stated in Oral The proposals in the Bill are carefully drafted in Questions on 25 January 2010, stakeholders are in response to this stakeholder feedback to ensure that regular contact with Ministers and the Department children’s welfare is protected and sensitive personal about a wide range of matters, including Ofsted jinspections. information remains confidential. In addition, the measures in the Bill propose to strengthen the current position Schools and give indefinite anonymity to children involved in family proceedings. Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for The current proposals before Parliament make clear Children, Schools and Families what estimate his that it is only possible to alter the treatment of sensitive Department has made of the cost of providing personal information once an independent review of one-to-one or small group tuition to every child not the operation of the provisions has been carried out, reaching the expected level at key stage 1 and 2 in (a) including their impact on the welfare of children. 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 and (c) 2011-12. [317823] National Youth Community Service Ms Diana R. Johnson: Funding for the one-to-one tuition programme was announced as part of the most Mr. Maude: To ask the Secretary of State for recent comprehensive spending review (CSR) settlement. Children, Schools and Families with reference to the There is a total of £468 million funding over the CSR Prime Minister’s speech at Britain’s Everyday Heroes period, including £138 million to support 3.5 per cent. Book Launch of 24 July 2007, what progress has been of the key stage 2, key stage 3 (and in National Challenge made on the launch of the National Youth Community schools key stage 4) cohort in each of English and Service for Britain since July 2007. [318354] maths in 2009-10; and £315 million to support 300,000 pupils in English and 300,000 children in mathematics Ms Diana R. Johnson: The 44-week volunteering in 2010-11. programme vTalent Year was launched in January 2009 In 2009-10, pupils who enter key stage 2 behind involving young people aged 16 to 25 volunteering expectations and/or who are not on course to make two for approximately 30 hours per week. The first cohort levels of progress will be eligible for one-to-one tuition, 737W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 738W but there is no entitlement to this support. Subject to Schools: Standards the will of Parliament, from September 2010 one-to-one tuition will be guaranteed for all children who enter key stage 2 behind national expectations and are not on Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for course to make two levels of progress over the course of Children, Schools and Families what steps his the key stage. The funding for 2010-11 is sufficient to Department has taken to reduce the (a) administrative cover this guarantee. burden on teachers and (b) number of national performance standards for schools in the last 12 The Every Child Counts and Every Child a Reader months. [321718] programmes in key stage 1 and the Every Child a Writer programme at key stage 2 comprise of both one-to-one tuition and small group work. Taken together, these Mr. Coaker: The Department works closely with the programmes will have £52.7 million funding in 2009-10, Implementation Review Unit (IRU), an independent and £94.6 million funding in 2010-11. group of front-line practitioners, to ensure that the bureaucratic and work load implications of both new Schools received a personalisation budget of £1.6 billion and existing policies are kept under review, and to a for the three year period of this CSR, and this funding minimum. Most recently, the IRU have been remitted can be used to provide further small group support. to conduct a review of obstacles to effective delivery No decisions on funding for the one-to-one tuition of government policies which is due to report late programme or the Every Child programmes have been spring. We have also made a number of commitments taken for 2011-12. to the Merits Committee and are managing better the impact of new policies on schools. Schools: Fires In answer to the second part of the question, since the removal of the key stage 3 national tests the national Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State performance standards for schools have remained constant for Children, Schools and Families (1) what estimate he in the last 12 months. has made of the number of fires reported in schools in each year since 2005; [318629] Secondary Education: Manpower (2) what his most recent estimate is of the annual cost to the public purse of fires in schools. [318631] Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Coaker [holding answer 26 February 2010]: The Children, Schools and Families what the average staff latest confirmed figures we have from the Department to pupil ratio is in secondary schools in (a) North East for Communities and Local Government (CLG) for Hertfordshire and (b) England. [321673] England and Wales cover the period 2000 to 2007, and are shown in the following tables. Mr. Coaker: The following table provides the pupil:adult ratios for local authority maintained secondary schools Number of Total costs (£ Percentage in North-East Hertfordshire constituency and England, fires million) arson January 2009. 2000 1,275 45 63 Within school pupil:adult ratio (PAR)1 in local authority maintained 2001 1,529 67 58 secondary schools2, year: January 2009, coverage: North-East 2002 1,332 67 55 Hertfordshire constituency and England 2003 1,232 n/a 61 Secondary 2004 1,229 ~52 56 England 10.7 2005 1,102 n/a 44 North-East Hertfordshire 11 8 2006 1,075 n/a 41 1 The within school PAR is calculated by dividing the total full-time 2007 825 n/a 42 equivalent (FTE) number of pupils on roll in schools by the total FTE n/a = not available number of all teachers and support staff employed in schools, excluding administrative and clerical staff. 2 Excludes city technology colleges and academies. Total Accidental Deliberate Source: School Census. 2003 1,232 478 753 2004 1,229 551 677 2005 1,102 615 487 Teachers: Pay 2006 1,075 639 436 2007 825 480 345 Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Note: Children, Schools and Families what the (a) median Excluding incidents not recorded during periods of industrial action in 2003 Ref: 2008066(2003-2007) .sas 12OCT09 and (b) mean salary in (i) nominal and (ii) real terms Source: was of a teacher in a maintained school in each region CLG in each year since 1997. [318692] The costs are rounded to the nearest £1 million and are derived from the CLG’s cost of Fire Estimates. Mr. Coaker: The following tables provide the mean They cover property damage and the costs of the fire and median salary of teachers in service in local authority and rescue services attending the fires. They do not maintained schools in cash terms and real terms broken include costs of any fires not attended by the Fire and down by each Government office region in England and Rescue Services. for Wales, March 1997 to 2008. 739W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 740W

Mean and median salary of full-time regular teachers1 in local authority maintained schools2 in cash terms and real terms3 broken down by each Government office region, Years: March 1997 to March 2008, Coverage: England and Wales £ 1997 1998 1999 Mean Median Mean Median Mean Median Government Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real office region terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms

North East 22,500 29,300 22,200 28,900 23,100 29,300 22,900 29,100 24,000 29,800 23,800 29,600 North West 22,600 29,500 22,200 28,900 23,300 29,500 22,900 29,100 24,200 30,000 23,800 29,600 Yorkshire 22,700 29,600 22,200 28,900 23,300 29,600 22,900 29,100 24,100 30,000 23,800 29,600 and the Humber East 22,800 29,700 22,200 28,900 23,500 29,800 22,900 29,100 24,300 30,200 23,800 29,600 Midlands West 22,700 29,500 22,200 28,900 23,300 29,600 22,900 29,100 24,200 30,100 23,800 29,600 Midlands East of 22,800 29,700 22,200 28,900 23,400 29,800 22,900 29,100 24,300 30,200 23,800 29,600 England London 24,500 31,900 24,800 32,400 25,200 31,900 25,000 31,800 26,200 32,600 26,000 32,300 South East 22,700 29,500 22,200 28,900 23,300 29,600 22,900 29,100 24,200 30,000 23,800 29,600 South West 22,700 29,600 22,200 28,900 23,300 29,600 22,900 29,100 24,200 30,100 23,800 29,600

Wales 22,600 29,500 22,200 28,900 23,200 29,500 22,900 29,100 24,100 29,900 23,800 29,600

England and 22,900 29,800 22,200 29,000 23,500 29,900 22,900 29,100 24,400 30,400 23,800 29,600 Wales

£ 2000 2001 2002 Mean Median Mean Median Mean Median Government Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real office region terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms

North East 25,000 30,400 24,600 30,000 26,900 32,300 27,000 32,400 28,200 33,200 28,500 33,500 North West 25,200 30,700 24,600 30,000 27,100 32,600 27,400 33,000 28,400 33,400 28,500 33,500 Yorkshire 25,100 30,600 24,600 30,000 27,000 32,500 27,000 32,400 28,400 33,400 28,500 33,500 and the Humber East 25,200 30,700 24,600 30,000 27,100 32,600 27,300 32,900 28,300 33,300 28,500 33,500 Midlands West 25,100 30,700 24,600 30,000 27,000 32,500 27,000 32,400 28,300 33,400 28,500 33,500 Midlands East of 25,200 30,800 24,600 30,000 27,100 32,600 27,000 32,400 28,600 33,700 28,500 33,500 England London 27,200 33,200 26,900 32,800 29,100 35,000 28,700 34,600 31,400 37,000 31,000 36,400 South East 25,100 30,600 24,600 30,000 26,800 32,300 26,600 32,000 28,200 33,200 28,000 32,900 South West 25,100 30,600 24,600 30,000 26,900 32,400 27,400 33,000 28,100 33,100 28,500 33,500

Wales 25,100 30,600 24,600 30,000 27,100 32,600 27,400 33,000 28,400 33,400 28,500 33,500

England and 25,400 31,000 24,600 30,000 27,200 32,800 27,400 33,000 28,700 33,800 28,500 33,500 Wales

£ 2003 2004 2005 Mean Median Mean Median Mean Median Government Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real office region terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms

North East 29,800 34,000 29,500 33,600 31,200 34,600 31,400 34,800 32,400 35,000 32,100 34,700 North West 30,100 34,300 30,500 34,800 31,300 34,800 31,400 34,800 32,500 35,100 32,300 34,900 Yorkshire 30,100 34,300 30,100 34,300 31,300 34,700 31,400 34,800 32,400 34,900 32,100 34,700 and the Humber East 30,100 34,400 30,500 34,800 31,100 34,500 31,400 34,800 32,100 34,600 32,100 34,700 Midlands West 30,200 34,400 30,500 34,800 31,300 34,700 31,400 34,800 32,400 35,000 32,700 35,300 Midlands 741W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 742W

£ 2003 2004 2005 Mean Median Mean Median Mean Median Government Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real office region terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms

East of 30,400 34,700 30,500 34,800 31,500 34,900 31,400 34,800 32,600 35,200 32,200 34,700 England London 33,300 37,900 32,800 37,400 35,300 39,100 34,400 38,100 36,300 39,200 35,500 38,400 South East 30,000 34,200 29,500 33,600 31,200 34,600 31,100 34,500 32,300 34,900 32,100 34,700 South West 29,800 34,000 29,500 33,600 31,000 34,300 31,400 34,800 32,000 34,600 32,100 34,700

Wales 30,100 34,400 30,500 34,800 31,300 34,700 31,400 34,800 32,700 35,300 32,800 35,400

England 30,500 34,700 30,500 34,800 31,700 35,200 31,400 34,800 32,900 35,500 32,700 35,300 and Wales

£ 2006 20074 20084 Mean Median Mean Median Mean Median Government Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real Cash Real office region terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms terms

North East 33,500 35,400 33,100 35,100 34,700 35,700 34,600 35,600 35,600 35,600 35,400 35,400 North West 33,600 35,600 33,200 35,200 34,700 35,700 33,900 34,900 35,600 35,600 35,400 35,400 Yorkshire 33,300 35,300 33,100 35,100 34,400 35,400 33,900 34,900 35,200 35,200 34,300 34,300 and the Humber East 33,200 35,200 33,100 35,100 34,200 35,200 33,400 34,400 35,100 35,100 34,300 34,300 Midlands West 33,300 35,300 33,100 35,100 34,400 35,400 34,400 35,400 35,500 35,500 35,300 35,300 Midlands East of 33,600 35,600 33,100 35,100 34,500 35,500 33,900 34,900 35,400 35,400 34,900 34,900 England London 37,500 39,700 36,300 38,500 38,600 39,700 37,400 38,500 39,700 39,700 38,500 38,500 South East 33,300 35,300 32,900 34,800 34,300 35,300 33,500 34,400 35,100 35,100 34,300 34,300 South West 33,200 35,200 33,100 35,100 34,300 35,300 33,900 34,900 35,200 35,200 34,300 34,300

Wales 33,700 35,700 33,700 35,700 34,700 35,700 34,400 35,400 35,700 35,700 35,200 35,200

England 33,900 35,900 33,500 35,500 35,000 36,000 34,400 35,400 35,900 35,900 35,400 35,400 and Wales 1 Teachers of all grades including school leadership. 2 Excludes CTCs and academies 3 Real terms figures calculated at 2007-08 prices using 4 January 2010 GDP deflators. 4 Provisional. Note: Figures are rounded to the nearest £100 Source: Database of Teacher Records

Teachers: Science Mr. Coaker [holding answer 15 March 2010]: Revised regulations and guidance on performance management Dr. Iddon: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, for teachers and head teachers in England were Schools and Families what proportion of schools published in October 2006 and came into force from which were assessed as (a) inadequate, (b) satisfactory 1 September 2007. The new arrangements provide and (c) outstanding by Ofsted in each of the last five for more transparent and consistent assessments of years do not have any teachers with degree level teacher performance, and provide a framework for qualifications in (i) physics, (ii) chemistry, (iii) biology planning continuing professional development and other and (iv) another science subject. [321824] support teachers need to do their jobs effectively and improve their professional practice. Mr. Coaker: This information is not available The first performance management plans for teachers centrally. were completed by 31 October 2007 and for head teachers by 31 December 2007 so it is still early days, Teachers: Standards but evidence we have indicates schools are complying with the new arrangements. We are embarking on a Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State specific piece of research which will be conducted by for Children, Schools and Families what his assessment National Foundation for Educational Research to review, is of the effectiveness of the system for the monitoring amongst other things, how performance management and appraisal of teacher performance. [322300] arrangements are working. 743W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 744W

INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Mr. Thomas: The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) is making good progress towards validation of Africa: Overseas Aid the Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative (EITI). The formal validation process is underway and the Government of the DRC expect to meet the outstanding Mr. Andrew Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State benchmarks for validation by June 2010. for International Development how much emergency funding his Department is providing to (a) Niger and The Department for International Development’s (b) Chad to alleviate the current food shortages. (DFID’s) staff in Kinshasa are involved in regular dialogue with the Government of the DRC and the [322006] international community to promote progress with EITI. DFID is currently preparing a joint mining sector reform Mr. Douglas Alexander: On 4 March the Department project with the World Bank, which will provide long-term for International Development (DFID) announced a support to EITI implementation in the DRC. £15 million package of assistance for Niger and Chad. A press release giving full details is available on the Departmental Internet DFID website at: http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Media-Room/Press-releases/ Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development pursuant to the answer of Mr. Andrew Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State 1 March 2010, Official Report, column 877W, on for International Development how much aid his departmental internet, what the cost was of the website Department has contributed to (a) Niger and (b) redesign. [321928] Chad (i) in each sector and (ii) via each implementing partner in each of the last three years. [322010] Mr. Michael Foster: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer of 14 December 2009, Official Report, column Mr. Douglas Alexander: The amount of bilateral aid 806W, on departmental internet. delivered by the Department for International Development (DFID), in each sector, in Niger and Chad, is available Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for on the DFID website, at: International Development how many designs for its http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-DFID/Finance-and- (a) internal website and (b) intranet his Department performance/Aid-Statistics/Statistics-on-International- has commissioned since 2005; and what the cost was of Development-2009/ each such design. [321985] Information on implementing partners is not held centrally and cannot be provided without incurring Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International disproportionate costs. Development (DFID) has commissioned one intranet (internal website) design since 2005 at a cost of £1,850. This redesign was necessary to accompany an upgrade Mr. Andrew Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State of the content management system. for International Development (1) how much funding the UK’s partner bilateral and multilateral agencies Departmental Lost Property plan to contribute to the West Africa Humanitarian Response Fund; [322007] John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) how the West Africa Humanitarian Response International Development what property has been Fund will be administered; [322008] recorded as (a) lost and (b) stolen from his (3) how much funding his Department plans to Department in the last 12 months; and what estimate allocate to each partner non-governmental has been made of the cost of the replacement of that organisation of the West Africa Humanitarian property. [322079] Response Fund. [322009] Mr. Michael Foster: Items recorded lost or stolen Mr. Douglas Alexander: Details of the West Africa from the Department for International Development Humanitarian Response Fund are published on the (DFID) during the financial year 2008-09 and the estimated Department for International Development’s (DFID’s) cost of replacing those items are provided in the following project database, which can be accessed at: table.

http://www.dfid.gov.uk/ Lost or stolen item Number Cost (£)

Stolen satellite phone and 1 766.66 Democratic Republic of Congo: Extractive Industries calls Transparency Initiative Stolen camera 1 160 Stolen office passes 2 2.30 plus VAT each Mr. Chaytor: To ask the Secretary of State for Stolen computer bag 1 Unknown International Development what reports he has Laptops 3 Approximately 800 each received on the steps taken by the Democratic Republic of Congo towards validation of the Extractive Ethiopia: Overseas Aid Industries Transparency Initiative; and if he will make it his policy to support the government of the Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Democratic Republic of Congo in its efforts to (a) International Development what information his achieve validation and (b) ensure effective Department holds on the operations of British implementation of these initiatives. [320948] companies in Ethiopia; and if he will make it his policy 745W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 746W to seek to ensure that the operation in Ethiopia of HOME DEPARTMENT British enterprises which are wholly commercial does Alcoholic Drinks: Convictions not disadvantage the operation of organisations in receipt of assistance from his Department. [322664] Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many convictions for being drunk and disorderly there were in Milton Keynes in Mr. Thomas: The Department for International each year since 1997. [315369] Development (DFID) does not hold specific information on the operations of British companies in Ethiopia, Mr. Alan Campbell: The number of persons found though our office in Addis Ababa has periodic contact guilty at all courts for being drunk and disorderly with particular companies on matters such as private within Thames Valley area in England and Wales from sector development in Ethiopia. 1997 to 2008 can be viewed in the following table. DFID does not monitor the activities of British A penalty notice for disorder (PND) may also be companies in Ethiopia or elsewhere overseas. The issued for being drunk and disorderly. The number of Department for Business Innovation and Skills (BIS) PNDs issued for drunk and disorderly from 2004 to leads on the operations of British companies overseas. 2008 can be viewed in the attached table. PNDs were Where issues arise in relation to the operations of introduced to all police force areas in 2004. companies overseas, the UK position is to encourage Court proceedings data for 2009 are planned to be companies to observe national laws and standards. published in the autumn 2010.

Number of persons found guilty at all courts and penalty notice for disorder (PNDs) issued for being drunk and disorderly related offences within Thames Valley area from 1997 to 20081, 2, 3 1997 199S 1999 200 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Found guilty 1045 1214 1097 911 821 772 853 700 265 253 227 204 Penalty notice for ———————403332228363362 disorder 1 Data are on the principal offence basis. 2 Data include the following offence descriptions and corresponding statutes: Being found drunk in a highway or other public place whether a building or not, or a licensed premises. Licensing Act 1872 Sec 12. Any person who in any public place is guilty, while drunk, of disorderly behaviour. Criminal Justice Act 1967 Sec.91. 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extractedfrom large administrative data systems generated by the courts, and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Source: Court proceedings data held by CJEA—Office for Criminal Justice Reform—Ministry of Justice—Our Ref: IOS 142-10

Anti-Semitism behaviour were reported to the police in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the and (d) England and Wales in each year since 1997. Home Department what steps he (a) has taken and [321854] (b) plans to take in the next six months to protect the Jewish community from anti-Semitic attacks; and if he Mr. Alan Campbell: I refer the hon. Member to my will make a statement. [321840] answer of 11 March 2010, Official Report, column 446W.

Mr. Alan Campbell: The Government take attacks on Antisocial Behaviour Orders: York the Jewish community very seriously and provide a co-ordinated and continual response. Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for the The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) Home Department how many antisocial behaviour National Community Tension Team (NCTT) carries orders have been issued by courts in York since the out community impact assessments and identifies particular introduction of such orders; and how many people Jewish communities for reassurance activity. The NCTT who were issued with such orders were proceeded also coordinates a national operation to ensure security against for breaching them. [322094] and reassure Jewish communities during High Holy Days. Mr. Alan Campbell: Antisocial behaviour orders (ASBOs) The Community Safety Trust (CST) was a recipient became available from 1 April 1999. Between 1 April of funding from the 2009-10 Hate Crime section of the 1999 and 31 December 2007 (latest currently available) Victims Fund to allow them to improve both their a total of 147 ASBOs were issued at all courts in the reporting of anti-Semitic incidents and the support North Yorkshire Criminal Justice System (CJS) area. provided to victims. In addition, in London, the Data collected centrally by the Ministry of Justice on Metropolitan Police’s Operation Rainbow Team, the ASBO breaches held on the Court Proceedings Database uniformed policing response to counter-terrorism, has only counts those occasions where the breach was proven been working with the CST on the security of Jewish in court to have occurred and are available for ASBOs buildings. issued from 1 June 2000. The number of ASBOs issued Antisocial Behaviour at all courts in the North Yorkshire CJS area subsequently proven in court to have been breached at least once Mr. Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for the between 1 June 2000 and 31 December 2007 (latest Home Department how many incidents of antisocial currently available) is 81. 747W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 748W

Data on ASBOs issued and breached collected centrally Mr. Alan Campbell: The information requested is by the Ministry of Justice are not compiled below given in the tables. Criminal Justice System (CJS) area level. Table 1: Offences recorded by the police in North Yorkshire, 1980-97 Number Crime Prevention: Small Businesses 1980 21,699 1981 25,700 Mr. Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for the 1982 29,611 Home Department what steps he is taking to 1983 28,796 encourage local authorities to design security systems 1984 31,638 and ensure safe environments for small retailers and 1985 35,427 traders. [321544] 1986 35,968 1987 37,494 Mr. Alan Campbell: Section 17 of the Crime and 1988 34,686 Disorder Act 1998 (as amended) requires all local authorities 1989 35,774 to exercise their functions with due regard to their likely 1990 46,252 effect on crime and disorder. The prevention of crime 1991 51,471 and the enhancement of community safety, including 1992 54,816 that of small retailers and traders, are therefore matters 1993 57,967 that a local planning authority should consider when 1994 62,153 exercising its functions under the Town and Country 1995 63,539 Planning legislation. All police forces have specialist 1996 56,919 crime prevention design advisors who can provide architects, 1997 50,252 developers and planners with advice on using design to help minimise risk of crime for the whole community. Table 2: Offences recorded by the police in North Yorkshire, 1998-99 to 2001- In October of last year I wrote to the chairs of all 021, 2 Community Safety Partnerships (CSPs) highlighting Number the importance of working closely with businesses when developing their annual strategic assessments to make 1998-99 55,309 communities safer. These are a requirement for all CSPs 1999-2000 53,554 and provide an opportunity to identify a better 2000-01 51,532 understanding of crime and the solutions which are 2001-02 59,125 1 The coverage was extended and counting rules revised from 1998-99. Figures effective. from that date are not directly comparable with those for 1997. To encourage them to develop their working relationship 2 The data in this table are prior to the introduction of the National Crime Recording Standard. These figures are not directly comparable with those for with local businesses, I drew their attention to the later years. guidance produced by the then Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform and Home Office: Table 3: Offences recorded by the police in North Yorkshire, 2002-03 to 2008-091 http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice.gov.uk/business/ Number partnershipsknow.pdf 2002-03 67,239 This is designed to give businesses and their local partnership 2003-04 71,473 practical advice on reducing crime including how to 2004-05 61,615 work better together. 2005-06 58,850 I also took this opportunity to draw their attention to 2006-07 54,526 the Home Office’s ‘Securing your Business’ online self 2007-08 49,944 assessment tool: 2008-09 48,563 1 http://secureyourbusiness.homeoffice.gov.uk/ The data in this table take account of the introduction of the National Crime Recording Standard in April 2002. These figures are not directly comparable which allows business users to assess what simple steps with those for earlier years. they might take to reduce the risk of crime, including Crimes of Violence: Merseyside store design and security systems. We are currently distributing the Small Retailers Capital Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State Grants Fund which is designed to help fight crime and for the Home Department how many violent crimes is being allocated to around 1,000 small retailers in took place on Merseyside in the latest period for which 50 priority areas across England and Wales. The grants figures are available; and if he will make a statement. are being used for a variety of purposes including: [322639] purchasing security equipment for individual retailers including CCTV, infrared security cameras, security Mr. Alan Campbell: The term ’violent crime’ is no shutters and rollers, safes, alarms, anti-fraud equipment longer used. Data are supplied for violence against the such as UV markers to detect counterfeit notes and person offences. In 2008-09, there were 19,015 violence anti-graffiti paint. against the person offences recorded by police in Merseyside. In total, there were 903,442 violence against the person Crime: North Yorkshire offences recorded by police in England and Wales in 2008-09. For information, these data are published in Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for the ’Crime in England and Wales 2008-09’ and are shown Home Department how many offences were reported in Table 7.03 at the following link: to North Yorkshire Police in each year since 1980. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs09/ [322111] hosb1109chap7new.xls 749W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 750W

Departmental Travel Mr. Woolas: To date (a) nine families have taken part in this project involving (b) a total of 36 individuals. Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for the These families consisted of: (c) five children aged 16 to Home Department if he will publish the travel 18 years, (d) seven aged 10 to under 16 years and 14 guidance issued to staff of each of his Department’s children under 10 years. agencies and non-departmental public bodies. [315025] DNA: Databases

Mr. Woolas: For personal and business travel to Mr. David Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for the benign areas, Home Office Agency staff are referred to Home Department how many individuals who have the FCO website for general travel advice. We have not been convicted of an offence have particulars of some internal guidance tailored to Home Office needs their DNA recorded on the national DNA database. which is issued to staff on request. This document is [321666] protectively marked and cannot be released for national security reasons. Where travel on Home Office business Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 11 March 2010]: involves staff visiting non-benign and/or volatile high I refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. threat areas, specific advice would be provided on a case Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Llwyd) on by case basis. 9 February 2010, Official Report, columns 908-09W. NDPBs are not covered by the centrally held guidance Domestic Violence and make their own arrangements. Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for the Detention Centres: Glasgow Home Department whether the British Crime Survey takes into account in its methodology the nature of Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for the domestic violence abusers when gathering information Home Department how much funding has been on domestic violence offences; and whether he has allocated to the Alternatives to Detention pilot in considered the merits of any other method of Glasgow in 2007 to 2010; and how much funding has collecting such information. [321377] allocated to the pilot for the next three financial years. [321103] Mr. Alan Campbell: The British Crime Survey (BCS) is carried out in respondents’ own homes. It is recognised Mr. Woolas: The Family Returns pilot project started that respondents may not wish to disclose being victim in June 2009. The UK Border Agency paid actual start of domestic abuse in a face-to-face interview, especially up costs in 2009 of £63,343.62. The first financial year if the abuser is present at the time of interview. For that for the project is 2009-10 with the annual running costs reason, the BCS includes a self-completion module on being met through the current dispersal contract that domestic abuse in which respondents may answer questions UK Border Agency has with Glasgow city council. in private. It is likely that there remains a degree of Therefore, there is no additional funding allocated for under-reporting of the level of such abuse but trends the next three financial years. The project is due to run will be unaffected as this methodology has been applied until 2012 but will be reviewed in 2010. consistently over time. The Home Office also commissions The cost of the Social Work Services provided by ad-hoc social research projects to explore the nature of Glasgow City Council is met by the Scottish Government domestic violence and also to inform the development as social services is a devolved matter and the funding and evaluation of policy and practice as and when is relates to two social workers and one social care worker. required. Copies of reports can be found online on the Home Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for the Office publication website: Home Department how many families are included in http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/ the Alternatives to Detention pilot being run in Drugs: Crime Glasgow; and whether there are plans to increase the number. [321105] Mr. Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr. Woolas: The Project is for families only and will Home Department how many reports of drug-related accommodate four to five families at any one time. At offences there were in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) present there are five families participating in the scheme South Tyneside, (c) the North East and (d) England and there are no current plans to increase the size of the and Wales in each year since 1997. [321590] project which is monitored to assess how effective it is and whether any changes or improvements could or Mr. Alan Campbell: Data collected centrally on recorded should be made. Upon its conclusion an independent crime do not identify whether offences are drug related. evaluation will be conducted and the findings will be The recorded crime statistics do include the number of published. specific drug offences recorded by the police and the available information is given in the tables. Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for the Statistics for Jarrow constituency are not available Home Department how many (a) families, (b) centrally and figures for South Tyneside relate to the individuals, (c) children aged under 18, (d) children South Tyneside Community Safety Partnership area. aged under 16 and (e) children aged under 10 have The increase in recorded drug offences in recent years taken part in the Alternatives to Detention pilot in has been largely associated with the increased use of Glasgow. [321107] police powers to issue cannabis warnings. 751W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 752W

Table 1: Drug offences recorded by the police, 19971 Table 2: Drug offences recorded by the police, 1998-99 to 2001-021,2 Number of offences Number of offences Offence 1998-99 1999-2000 2000-01 2001-02 Offence 1997 South Tyneside CSP n/a n/a 383 509 North East Region 6,442 6,460 6,424 7,230 South Tyneside CSP n/a England and Wales 135,945 121,866 113,458 121,393 North East Region 1,076 n/a = Not available. 1 The coverage was extended and counting rules revised from 1998-99. Figures England and Wales 23,153 from that date are not directly comparable with those for 1997. 2 The data in this table is prior to the introduction of the National Crime n/a = Not available. Recording Standard. These figures are not directly comparable with those for 1 Trafficking in controlled drugs only. later years.

Table 3: Drug offences recorded by the police, 2002-03 to 2008-091 Number of offences Offence 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

South Tyneside CSP 690 672 692 739 665 680 648 North East Region 9,014 7,987 7,149 8,280 8,447 8,195 9,129 England and Wales2 143,320 143,511 145,837 178,479 194,233 229,881 243,406 1 The data in this table takes account of the introduction of the National Crime Recording Standard in April 2002. These figures are not directly comparable with those for earlier years. 2 Includes British Transport Police from 2002-03 onwards.

Police: Birmingham unit level (which is equivalent to operational command units in west midlands). Data have been provided for Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for the the west midlands operational command units covering Home Department how many (a) police officers there the Birmingham area (D1-D2, E1-E3 and F1-F3). were in Birmingham in each year since 1997 and (b) These and other related data are published annually police community support officers there were in as a supplementary part of the annual Police Service Birmingham in each year since 2002. [321568] Strength Home Office Statistical Bulletin. The latest bulletin can be found at: Mr. Hanson: The available data are provided in the tables. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/policeorg1.html Police personnel statistics are not collected at the and bulletins for this and previous years are deposited requested level. Data are collected at basic command in the Library of the House.

Police officer and police community support officer strength, basic command units covering the Birmingham area1,asat31March2, 3

2002 2003 2004 20054

West midlands Officer PCSO Officer PCSO Officer PCSO Officer PCSO

D1 340 n/a 346 n/a 358 n/a 378 8

D2 347 n/a 342 n/a 356 n/a 360 23

D3 379 n/a 398 n/a 395 n/a 403 0

E1 344 n/a 334 n/a 334 n/a 343 4

E2 323 n/a 323 n/a 320 n/a 318 10

E3 286 n/a 295 n/a 292 n/a 296 8

F1 369 n/a 389 n/a 398 n/a 389 24

F2 302 n/a 300 n/a 308 n/a 305 12

F3 304 n/a 314 n/a 317 n/a 318 8

Total 2,992 n/a 3,039 n/a 3,077 n/a 3,110 97

2006 2007 2008 2009 West midlands Officer PCSO Officer PCSO Officer PCSO Officer PCSO

D1 372 10 371 30 381 40 387 50 D2 348 23 343 29 336 34 335 37 D3 399 0 401 25 399 31 418 39 E1 329 4 325 27 342 35 330 37 E2 304 10 306 25 310 28 305 29 E3 290 8 286 26 293 26 314 33 F1 371 27 376 23 384 26 385 26 753W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 754W

2006 2007 2008 2009 West midlands Officer PCSO Officer PCSO Officer PCSO Officer PCSO

F2 291 12 297 28 302 31 300 32 F3 308 8 307 25 317 27 333 38 Total 3,013 102 3,012 238 3,065 278 3,106 319 1 Police personnel data are not collected at the requested level. Data are collected at basic command unit level (which is equivalent to operational command units in west midlands). Data have been provided for the west midlands operational command units covering the Birmingham area (D1-D3, E1-E3 and F1-F3). 2 These figures are based on full-time equivalents that have been rounded to the nearest whole number; due to rounding there may be an apparent discrepancy between totals and the sums of constituent items. Figures include those officers on career breaks or maternity/paternity leave. 3 Data by basic command unit are only available from 31 March 2002 for police officers and from 31 March 2007 for police community support officers. 4 Police community support officer data are at 30 June for 2005 and 2006. This was a special collection made until data were included in the main statistical run.

Police: Milton Keynes Proof of Identity

Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much funding his Department Home Department what information his Department provided for (a) policing and (b) victim support holds on which major retailers accept the UK services in Milton Keynes in each year since 1997. CitizenCard as proof of age. [321952] [321871] Mr. Alan Campbell: The Home Office is aware that Mr. Alan Campbell: The information available can be the CitizenCard is accepted by a number of major found in the following tables. There is no available retailers. However, we do not hold specific information breakdown on figures just for Milton Keynes, as it is on which retailers accept the card and which do not. included in (a) Thames Valley policing figures and (b) Buckinghamshire victim support services figures. The Government support PASS, which is the national proof-of-age accreditation scheme. PASS sets minimum Thames Valley police authority funding standards for proof-of-age cards including CitizenCard. £ million The PASS hologram on a card is the hallmark indicating 1997-98 176.0 that the card issuer has passed a stringent audit carried 1998-991 185.8 out by trading standard officers. PASS cards are easily 1999-2000 188.7 recognisable both to retailers and young people and 2000-01 195.3 provide assurance that the age details on the card are 2001-02 218.9 correct. 2001-022 213.6 2002-03 223.3 2003-04 231.9 Theft: Motor Vehicles 2004-05 239.9 2005-06 249.7 Mr. Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for the 3 2005-06 249.7 Home Department how many vehicle-related thefts 2006-07 259.7 have been reported in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) 2007-08 270.7 South Tyneside, (c) the North East and (d) England 2007-08 270.6 and Wales in each year since 1997. [321594] 2008-09 275.3 2009-10 313.8 1 For the National Criminal Intelligence Service (NCIS) in 1997-98. Mr. Alan Campbell: The available information is for 2 For the National Crime Squad (NCS) in 2001-02. offences recorded by the police and is given in the 3 For pensions and security funding in 2006-07. Note: following tables. Statistics for Jarrow constituency are 1. These figures comprises the Home Office police grant and certain specific not available centrally and figures for South Tyneside grants and capital provision, and also the Revenue Support grant and National relate to the South Tyneside Community Safety Partnership non-domestic rates (both provided by the Department for Communities and Local Government). area. 2. Figures are not directly comparable across all years because of adjustments Table 1: Vehicle-related thefts recorded by the police, 1997 to the base line for funding transfers from general grant. Number of offences Buckinghamshire Victim Support Services funding Offence 1997 Office of Criminal Justice Reform funding for Victim Support (£) South Tyneside CSP Theft of a motor vehicle n/a 2001-02 201,951 Theft from a vehicle n/a 2002-03 204,389 2003-04 205,845 North East Region 2004-05 408,146 2005-06 408,076 Theft of a motor vehicle 24,641 2006-07 408,076 Theft from a vehicle 34,814 2007-08 448,805 2008-09 510,995 England and Wales Notes: Theft of a motor vehicle 407,239 1. Figures provided by the Office of Criminal Justice Reform. 2. The table above illustrates funding given to Buckinghamshire Victim support. Theft from a vehicle 710,333 There is no available breakdown on figures for Buckinghamshire before 2001. n/a = Not available. 755W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 756W

Table 2: Vehicle-related thefts recorded by the police, 1998-99 to 2001-021,2 Table 2: Vehicle-related thefts recorded by the police, 1998-99 to 2001-021,2 Number of offences Number of offences Offence 1998-99 1999-2000 2000-01 2001-02 Offence 1998-99 1999-2000 2000-01 2001-02

South Tyneside CSP England and Wales

Theft of a motor n/a 1,008 1,014 743 Theft of a motor 391,807 374,668 310,613 328,115 vehicle vehicle Theft from a vehicle n/a 1,585 1,671 1,471 Theft from a vehicle 685,919 669,232 571,176 655,161 n/a = Not available. North East Region 1 The coverage was extended and counting rules revised from 1998-99. Figures from that date are not directly comparable with those for 1997. Theft of a motor 21,650 18,402 16,307 15,346 2. The data in this table is prior to the introduction of the National Crime vehicle Recording Standard. These figures are not directly comparable with those for Theft from a vehicle 27.524 29,953 27,920 27,113 later years.

Table 3: Vehicle-related thefts recorded by the police, 2002-03 to 2008-091 Number of offences Offence 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

South Tyneside CSP Theft of a motor vehicle 734 587 507 461 405 366 306 Theft from a vehicle 1,581 1,117 1,069 1,281 947 779 561

North East Region Theft of a motor vehicle 13,872 13,277 10,893 9,783 8,028 7,060 5,878 Theft from a vehicle 28,132 24,378 20,761 20,833 19,183 15,344 13,645

England and Wales2 Theft of a motor vehicle 318,507 291,858 242,732 214,182 193.384 170,008 147,342 Theft from a vehicle 663,679 603,256 500,360 507,239 502,651 432,374 396,950 1 The data in this table takes account of the Introduction of the National Crime Recording Standard in April 2002. These figures are not directly comparable with those for earlier years. 2 Includes British Transport Police from 2002-03 onwards.

TREASURY Mr. Timms: The information requested is provided in the following table. Income Tax Personal Allowance Number of families with Tax Credits taxpayers1, by the highest received at rate of tax paid by at least Proportion of families with 16. Danny Alexander: To ask the Chancellor of the 1 Exchequer when he last reviewed the levels of the April 2008 one adult in the family taxpayers (%) Higher income tax personal allowance; and if he will make a Basic rate2 Higher rate Basic rate2 rate3 statement. [322200] Working Tax 280,000 0 77 0 Credit (WTC) Mr. Timms: The 2009 pre-Budget report confirmed Child Tax 2,470,000 210,000 69 6 that the personal allowance and age-related allowances Credits (CTC) will remain at their 2009-10 levels for 2010-11, providing CTC and 1,310,000 0 76 0 a real terms benefit relative to the fall in September’s WTC retail price index. 1 Income from savings and investments is not included in the tax calculation 2 This includes families that had starting rate income taxpayers 3 This includes families that had basic and higher rate income taxpayers Income Tax Economic Growth Forecasts

17. Mr. Mullin: To ask the Chancellor of the 18. James Brokenshire: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what recent representations he has received Exchequer what recent discussions he has had with the on the basic rate of income tax; and if he will make a Prime Minister on forecasts for economic growth. statement. [322201] [322202]

Mr. Timms: Treasury Ministers and officials receive Ian Pearson: The Chancellor and Prime Minister representations from a wide range of organisations and have regular discussions on a range of issues, including individuals. As was the case with previous Administrations, the prospects for the UK economy. it is not the Government’s practice to provide details of all such representations. Government Debt

Steve Webb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 19. Miss McIntosh: To ask the Chancellor of the how many and what proportion of those in receipt of Exchequer what recent representations he has received (a) working tax credit only, (b) child tax credit only on his Department’s programme for reducing the level and (c) working tax credit and child tax credit pay (i) of Government debt; and if he will make a statement. standard rate and (ii) higher rate income tax. [318389] [322203] 757W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 758W

Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Treasury Ministers and officials Mr. Byrne [holding answer 15 March 2010]: Figures receive representations from a wide variety of organisations. on total tax revenue and other monies disaggregated by It is not the Government’s practice to provide details of country are not available. Information on tax receipts at such representations. a UK level is given in table B10 of the pre-Budget The 2009 pre-Budget report set out the Government’s report 2009: plans to ensure the sustainability of the public finances, http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/pbr09_annexb.pdf and the Fiscal Responsibility Act has enshrined these (Cm 7747) plans in legislation. The Chancellor will provide an update in his Budget Budget Deficit statement on 24 March. 22. Mr. Evennett: To ask the Chancellor of the Fuel Duty Exchequer what recent estimate he has made of the current and future level of the budget deficit; and if he 20. Sir Nicholas Winterton: To ask the Chancellor of will make a statement. [322207] the Exchequer what recent assessment he has made of the effect on motorists of the level of fuel duty. Mr. Byrne: The Chancellor of the Exchequer will [322204] provide an update on the Government’s fiscal position, Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Chancellor of the Exchequer including forecasts for the public finances, at Budget. takes a range of factors into consideration when The Fiscal Responsibility Act puts a legal obligation contemplating rates of excise duty on road fuels. These on the Government to more than half the deficit over include fiscal, economic, social and environmental four years and see debt falling by 2015-16. considerations. In the medium term, sound public finances are essential Interest Rates in order to protect stability, employment and growth for all UK residents, including motorists. 23. Ms Keeble: To ask the Chancellor of the It is for this reason that at Budget 2009 the Chancellor Exchequer what recent assessment he has made of the announced that fuel duty would increase by 1p per litre effects on savers of low interest rates. [322208] in real terms, in April 2010 to 2013. These changes will also help to save 2 million tonnes of CO2 per year, by Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Government seek to support 2013. savings and asset ownership for all across the life cycle— from childhood, through working life and into retirement. Public Expenditure The Government recognise that low interest rates, 21. Mr. Heald: To ask the Chancellor of the while benefiting many people with mortgages, have Exchequer what recent discussions he has had with (a) meant that savers have seen their return from savings the Prime Minister and (b) other ministerial colleagues fall. on the mechanism to determine the level of public At Budget 2009 the Government announced a package expenditure in the next three years. [322206] of measures to help savers. This includes an increase in the ISA limits, an increase in the capital disregard for Mr. Byrne: The Chancellor, discusses public expenditure pensioner-related Housing and Council Tax Benefit, with the Prime Minister on a regular basis. and a campaign encouraging 3.4 million beneficiaries of The level of public expenditure beyond 2010-11 will Pension Credit to claim back any tax they may have be set out as part of the next spending review. overpaid on their savings income. The Chancellor continues to make clear that the current level of global uncertainty means that it would Manufacturing be risky to undertake a spending review at this time. The timing of the next spending review will be announced in 24. Mark Pritchard: To ask the Chancellor of the due course. Exchequer what recent assessment he has made of the effect on the economy of the level of activity in the Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer manufacturing sector. [322209] how much and what proportion of expenditure from the public purse in 2008-09 was spent in each Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Manufacturing is a key part of constituent part of the UK. [322253] the economy, accounting for over 13 per cent. of output Mr. Byrne [holding answer 15 March 2010]: Table 9.1 and over 50 per cent. of exports. In common with other of the annual Public Expenditure and Statistical Analyses economies, UK manufacturers were hit hard by the (PESA), published by the Treasury in June 2009, sets global recession. However, manufacturing output grew out the total identifiable expenditure on services by by 0.8 per cent. in the last quarter of 2009 and private country and region for 2008-09: business surveys suggest that the outlook for manufacturing continues to improve. http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/pesa09_chapter9.pdf (Cm7630). Business: Government Assistance Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what proportion of (a) tax revenue and (b) other Mr. Binley: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer monies collected by his Department in 2008-09 came how many companies have used the Enterprise from (i) Wales, (ii) Scotland, (iii) Northern Ireland and Investment Scheme in each year since its inception. (iv) England. [322254] [322712] 759W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 760W

Ian Pearson: The estimated number of companies (2) how many individual properties had their that have used the Enterprise Investment Scheme in assessment for inheritance tax increased in 2008-09 as each tax-year up to and including 2007-08 is published the result of a challenge by the Valuation Office annually on the HMRC website: Agency. [319646] http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/ent_invest_scheme/table8-1.pdf The estimates for 2008-09 are scheduled to be published Mr. Timms: The information requested is provided in in December 2010. the following tables. Child Tax Credit: York Gross increase in Inheritance tax revenues following challenge by the VOA, (£ million) Hugh Bayley: To ask the Chancellor of the 2008-09 96 Exchequer how many families living in the City of 2007-08 132 York local authority area receive the child element of 2006-07 105 child tax credit; in respect of how many children that credit is paid; and what the average amount per week Number of individual properties whose inheritance tax assessment was each such family received was in the latest period which increased following challenge by the VOA figures are available. [322109] 2008-09 3,589 2007-08 5,529 Mr. Timms: The latest information on the number of households benefiting from the child element of child 2006-07 4,935 tax credits, the number of children in those families and the average amount received in child and working tax Non-domestic Rates: Ports credits, by local authority, is published in the HMRC publication “Child and Working Tax Credits Statistics Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Chancellor of the Finalised Awards 2007-08. Geographical Analyses”. This Exchequer how many port businesses were physically is available at: inspected when the Valuation Office Agency (VOA) http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- began to rate port businesses separately; how many payments-0708.pdf were notified that they were being assessed; and from The same information for 2008-09 will be published where the VOA derived the information to make its shortly. assessments. [322227] Domicil Ian Pearson: Since May 2006, the Valuation Office Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Chancellor of the Agency has inspected over 800 properties (hereditaments) Exchequer what estimate HM Revenue and Customs within 55 ports in England and Wales as part of the has made of the number of UK citizens who have ports review. permanent residence in the UK that have retained domicile in (a) Belize, (b) the Turks and Caicos Information was collected from the statutory port Islands, (c) the Cayman Islands and (d) the Bahamas. operators, ratepayers and through physical inspection [316918] of the property. In cases where the information supported separate assessment, the ratepayer was served a notice Mr. Timms [holding answer 22 February 2010]: The informing them of the assessment. information requested is not available, as individuals are not required to declare their domicile to HM Revenue Research and Development Tax Credit and Customs. Employee Benefit Trusts Mr. Binley: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many small businesses have applied for research Dr. Cable: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer and development tax relief in each of the last three pursuant to the answer of 5 January 2010, Official years. [322692] Report, column 161W, on employee benefit trusts, what the evidential basis is for HM Revenue and Customs’ experience that employee benefit trusts with only one Ian Pearson: Annual figures on research and development beneficiary are very uncommon. [316953] tax credits are published as National Statistics on the HMRC website: Mr. Timms: In HMRC’s experience, most companies http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/corporate_tax/ that use employee benefit trusts (EBT) have more than randdtcmenu.htm one employee. This is because an EBT for only one The latest figures show that the numbers of claims employee would be ineffective for inheritance tax planning under the SME scheme were 4,960 in 2005-06, 5,270 in purposes. 2006-07, and 5,930 in 2007-08, and the amounts claimed Inheritance Tax: Housing were £180 million, £200 million and £250 million respectively. Figures for 2008-09 are not yet available. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member Revenue and Customs: Data Protection for Bromley and Chislehurst of 11 January 2010, Official Report, column 769W, on inheritance tax: housing, (1) what the gross increase in cash terms in Mr. Duncan Smith: To ask the Chancellor of the revenue from inheritance tax as a result of challenges Exchequer what steps have been taken to improve data by the Valuation Office Agency was in each year before security at HM Revenue and Customs premises since 2008-09 for which figures are available; [319645] 2008-09. [317291] 761W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 762W

Mr. Timms: HMRC has an extensive programme of (4) what his policy is on the (a) reduction and (b) work to improve data security. This programme ran abolition of tax free lump sums for qualifying pension throughout 2008-09 and is continuing. schemes; [319376] Key activities has included: (5) what estimate his Department has made of the clarifying accountabilities for data security likely effect on Exchequer revenues of the (a) improving physical and technical controls on access to and reduction and (b) abolition of tax free lump sums for movement of bulk data, and use of removable media; and qualifying pension schemes in the last 12 months; driving cultural change through mandatory training for all [319377] staff, improved guidance and targeted communication. (6) what estimate his Department has made of the Revenue and Customs: Manpower likely effect on Exchequer revenues of the introduction of capital gains tax for pension funds in the last 12 months; [319378] Jim Cousins: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many and what proportion of staff of HM (7) what estimate his Department has made of the Revenue and Customs were (a) on fixed term likely effect on Exchequer revenues of the introduction appointments and (b) agency workers in each of the of taxation on pension fund growth in the last 12 months; [319379] last three years. [321068] (8) what estimate his Department has made of the Mr. Timms [holding answer 8 March 2010]: The likely effect on Exchequer revenues of the (a) removal information is as follows: and (b) reduction of tax relief on pensions savings for (a) The information requested is provided in the people paying income tax at the 40 per cent. rate in the following table. last 12 months. [319380]

Fixed term appointments Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Government introduced a Percentage of HMRC total simplified regime for the taxation of pensions with Headcount headcount effect from “A-day” (6 April 2006), and their approach to the taxation of pensions is set out in Finance Act 2004 April 4,206 4.4 2007 and in subsequent legislation. April 2,578 2.8 Budget 2009 announced that from April 2011 tax 2008 relief on pension contributions would be restricted for April 1,327 1.5 2009 those with incomes of £150,000 and over, and a consultation on the implementation of this restriction was launched (b) Agency staff numbers are available only at at PBR 2009. disproportionate cost, as they are not centrally held by As with all areas of tax, the Government keep the HM Revenue and Customs’ systems. taxation of pensions under review. Tax Avoidance Taxation: Self-assessment and PAYE Jim Cousins: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what assessment he made of the implications for his Mr. Liddell-Grainger: To ask the Chancellor of the Department of the judgment of the House of Lords in Exchequer how many errors in the calculation of tax the case of Furniss v Dawson in 1984; and what based on (a) Pay-As-You-Earn and (b) self estimate he has made of the effect of that judgment on assessment were identified in (i) 2006, (ii) 2007, (iii) the revenue of the Exchequer. [322243] 2008 and (iv) 2009; and how many errors in the calculation of all types of tax there were in each such Mr. Timms: The 1984 Furniss v. Dawson judgment is year. [313093] one of a line of cases, often referred to as the “Ramsay” cases. These cases deal with the principle of statutory Mr. Timms: The information requested is not available interpretation and establish the principle that tax legislation as data on the numbers of errors in the calculation of must be construed purposively and applied to a realistic tax are not held centrally. view of the transactions that have taken place. The tax effect of this line of cases is to apply tax provisions in line with Parliament’s intentions, and so VAT collect the tax that is properly due. Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Chancellor of the Taxation: Pensions Exchequer how many complaints from UK businesses HM Revenue and Customs has received regarding its Mr. Scott: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer plans to make submission of value added tax returns (1) what his policy is on the (a) removal and (b) online compulsory from April 2010. [321094] reduction of tax relief on pensions savings for people paying income tax at the 40 per cent. rate; [319373] Mr. Timms: The Government’s plans to make filing (2) what his policy is on the introduction of a tax on online value added tax returns compulsory from April the interest earned on pension fund investments; 2010 has been largely welcomed by the professional tax [319374] community. HM Revenue and Customs has received (3) what his policy is on the introduction of a capital 195 complaints, mostly from individual traders, about gains tax on pension fund investments; [319375] these plans. 763W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 764W

Welfare Tax Credits: Foreigners support this training; when he anticipates the educational material to be provided by his Department; Mr. Harper: To ask THE Chancellor of the and if he will make a statement. [322284] Exchequer what his most recent estimate is of the monetary value of (a) working tax credit and (b) child Ann Keen: We recognise the importance of training in tax credit paid to (i) non-British EU nationals resident rheumatoid arthritis. The Government do not specify in the UK, (ii) non-EU nationals resident in the UK, the content of the general practitioner training curriculum. (iii) non-British EU nationals not resident in the UK This is developed by the Royal College of General and (iv) non-EU nationals not resident in the UK to Practitioners. Responsibility for approval of the curriculum date; and if he will make a statement. [320156] reset with the Postgraduate Medical Education and Training Board (PMETB), which is the competent authority Mr. Timms [holding answer 3 March 2010]: The for postgraduate medical training in the United Kingdom. information requested is not available, as tax credit PMETB is an independent professional body. claimants’ nationality is not recorded by HM Revenue and Customs. From 1 April 2010, the content of postgraduate Tax credits are intended to provide support to families medical training will be the responsibility of the General with children and to those in low-paid work in the UK. Medical Council (GMC) following a merge of the two Therefore eligibility for tax credits depends on the claimants organisations. being present and ordinarily resident in the UK. Child Central funding for postgraduate medical training is tax credit claimants must also have a right to reside in provided through Multi-Professional Education and the UK. Training (MPET). Educational materials are developed by the appropriate professional bodies, such as the Medical Royal Colleges, HEALTH and those responsible for delivering medical education. Abortion While it is not practicable or desirable for the Government to prescribe the exact training that any individual doctor Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health will receive we are, of course, aware of the need to with reference to the answer of 12 October 2009, ensure perceived areas of weakness in training curricula Official Report, column 684W, on abortions, for what are addressed. For that reason, we are liaising with the reasons national health service numbers are not used as Regulators and the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges a unique patient identifier in respect of abortion about how best to ensure curricula do meet requirements. operations; and what recent representations he has received on the matter. [322328] Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what his most recent assessment is of progress towards Gillian Merron: The national health service number is meeting the 18-week waiting time target for access to not used as a unique patient identifier for women accessing rheumatoid arthritis services; what assessment he has abortion services for reasons of confidentiality, enabling made of the effect of the waiting time target on the women who wish to remain anonymous to do so. This is provision of rheumatology services; and if he will make in accordance with the ‘NHS Number programme’ a statement. [322285] implementation guidance issued in December 2008, which confirms that exemptions apply to patients accessing sexual health services. The Government have received Ann Keen: Latest figures, for December 2009, show some representation on this matter and have no plans to that 98 per cent. of non-admitted rheumatology patients change their position. and 99 per cent. of admitted rheumatology patients started their treatment within 18 weeks of referral. Arthritis: Health Services Rheumatology is the treatment function category into which most rheumatoid arthritis patients will fall. Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what recent assessment his Department has made of The 18 weeks waiting time standard has significantly the effectiveness of rheumatoid arthritis services; what improved access to consultant-led treatment—including steps his Department is (a) taking and (b) plans to patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Implementing the take to encourage primary care trusts to commission 18-week standard has driven earlier diagnosis and treatment services in line with this assessment in the next six of new patients—which is of particular benefit for patients diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. months; and if he will make a statement. [322283] Ann Keen: The Department has not made any specific Bridlington Hospital: Bus Services assessment of the effectiveness of rheumatoid arthritis services. Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for It is the responsibility of primary care trusts as Health for what reasons the shuttle bus service between commissioners of health care services to ensure that Bridlington and Scarborough hospitals and funded by their populations have access to the services that reflect the NHS has ceased operating; and when he expects the their needs, priorities and aspirations and that the design service to resume. [322363] and provision of services is evidence based. Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Ann Keen: The Information requested is not held what steps his Department is taking to improve the centrally. However, the right hon. Member may wish to training provided to GPs in respect of rheumatoid approach the Scarborough and North East Yorkshire arthritis; what funding his Department is providing to healthcare NHS trust direct for this information. 765W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 766W

Cancer: Drugs (NICE) since the answer; whether each was (a) recommended and (b) not recommended for NHS use; Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State how long the appraisal of each took; whether the for Health with reference to the answer of pharmaceutical company supplying each such drug 10 November 2009, Official Report, column 242W, on offered to make it available through a patient access cancer: drugs, (1) what period elapsed from the scheme; and how long it has taken from the licensing of licensing of each drug referred to in the answer to the each drug to draft of final NICE guidance being made (a) draft and (b) final National Institute for Health available. [322371] and Clinical Excellence guidance being available; [322366] (2) what cancer drugs have been appraised by the Mr. Mike O’Brien: The information requested is shown National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence in the table.

Single Technology Appraisal (STA) or Multiple Date of market Technology authorisation Date of draft Date of final Patient Access Appraisal for relevant Start of NICE NICE NICE Scheme considered by Topic (MTA) indication appraisal1 guidance guidance Recommendation NICE

Yondelis STA September 2007 September 2008 June 2009 February 2010 Partial Yes (trabectedin) for recommendation soft tissue sarcoma

Hycamtin MTA From January August 2008 July 2009 November Partial No (topotecan) for 2006 2009 recommendation small cell lung cancer

Hycamtin STA December 2006 December 2008 June 2009 October 2009 Partial No (topotecan) for recommendation Cervical Cancer (recurrent)

Sutent (sunitinib) STA July 2006 August 2008 March 2009 September Partial Yes for 2009 recommendation Gastrointestinal stromal tumours

Alimta STA April 2008 October 2008 April 2009 September Partial No (pemetrexed) for 2009 recommendation the first-line treatment of non- small-cell lung cancer

Erbitux STA July 2008 January 2008 September August 2009 Partial Yes (cetuximab) for 2008 recommendation Colorectal Cancer (first line)

Avastin MTA Nexavar—June September August 2008 August 2009 Not recommended Nexavar—yes (bevacizumab) 2006 20072 (first-line), Nexavar (sorafenib) (first- line and second- line), Sutent (sunitinib) (second-line) and Torisel (temsirolimus) (first-line) for the treatment of advanced and/or metastatic renal cell carcinoma Avastin— Avastin— yes January 2008 Sutent—July Sutent—yes 2006 Torisel— Torisel—no November 2007 767W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 768W

Single Technology Appraisal (STA) or Multiple Date of market Technology authorisation Date of draft Date of final Patient Access Appraisal for relevant Start of NICE NICE NICE Scheme considered by Topic (MTA) indication appraisal1 guidance guidance Recommendation NICE

Mabthera STA February 2009 September 2008 March 2009 July 2009 Partial No (rituximab) for recommendation first-line treatment of chronic lymphocytic leukaemia

Erbitux STA January 2009 September 2008 January 2009 June 2009 Not recommended No (cetuximab) for Head and Neck Cancer (squamous cell carcinoma)

Revlimid STA June 2007 April 2008 October 2008 June 2009 Partial Yes (lenalidomide) for recommendation Multiple Myeloma

Sutent (sunitinib) MTA July 2006 September August 2008 March 2009 Partial Yes for the first-line 20072 recommendation treatment of advanced and/or metastatic renal cell carcinoma

Tarceva (erlotinib) STA September 2005 March 2006 November November Partial Yes for the treatment 2006 2008 recommendation of non-small-cell lung cancer 1 The date NICE commenced work on the appraisal. NICE will also have carried out scoping work for the appraisal before this date. 2 This is the date on which the MTA began for Avastin (bevacizumab) (first-line), Nexavar (sorafenib) (first-line and second-line), Sutent (sunitinib) (first and second-line) and Torisel (temsirolimus) (first-line) for the treatment of advanced and/or metastatic renal cell carcinoma. The MTA was subsequently split and Sutent (sunitinib) for the first-line treatment of renal cell carcinoma was considered in a separate STA.

Care Homes: Inspections Financial year Amount of grant (£ million ) Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State 1999-2000 0.45 for Health what the policy is of the Care Quality 2000-01 1.22 Commission on assessment of a care home after a 2001-02 1.70 change in its rating. [322234] 2002-03 2.05 2003-04 2.57 Mr. Mike O’Brien: The following information has 2004-05 3.20 been supplied by the Care Quality Commission (CQC). 2005-06 4.70 A rating is only awarded, or can only be changed, 2006-07 4.79 following a ‘key inspection’. 2007-08 4.83 The CQC takes a proportionate approach to the 2008-09 5.88 frequency of its key inspections. A change to a lower 2009-10 6.27 rating, will result in an increase in the frequency of key 2010-11 6.64 inspections, and conversely a change to a higher rating will result in a decrease. “Our health, our care, our say: a new direction for Carers: Birmingham community services”, published in January 2006 (a copy of which has been placed in the Library), offered a Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for new deal for carers through a range of measures, including Health how much funding has been received in a commitment to update the 1999 Carers’ Strategy. Birmingham (a) to enable breaks for carers and (b) The revised strategy, published in 2008, commits from the New Deal for Carers programme in each year £255 million over the current spending review period, since 1997. [321570] 2008-11, to improve support for carers. This includes £50 million in 2009-10 and £100 million in 2010-11 Phil Hope: The Government introduced the Carers’ which is being given to primary care trusts (PCTs) Grant in 1999 in recognition of the support carers need within their baseline allocations to provide breaks for for breaks and other services. carers. It is for PCTs to decide their priorities for The amount of funding that Birmingham has received investment locally, taking into account their local from the Carers’ Grant to support carers, including circumstances and priorities set out in the NHS Operating breaks, is in the following table. Framework. 769W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 770W

The new deal for carers also included a commitment Dementia: Research to provide training for carers. Through the Caring with Confidence programme, £150,000 will have been spent Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State on training carers in Birmingham by 31 March 2010. for Health pursuant to the answer of 2 February 2010, Official Report, column 225W, on dementia: drugs, if Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: Research he will place in the Library a copy of the minutes of the first meeting of the ministerial group on dementia Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Health research held on 24 February 2010; what the outcomes whether his Department has (a) commissioned and were of that meeting; and if he will make a statement. (b) evaluated any research on a relationship between [322270] myalgic encephalomyelitis and blood-related disorders. [322011] Phil Hope: A copy of the minutes of the meeting of the ministerial advisory group on dementia research Gillian Merron: The Department has, to date, not held on 24 February 2010 has been placed in the Library. commissioned or evaluated any research. However, others, The group has identified five broad workstreams. such as the Medical Research Council, the Health Protection These will be taken forward by designated sub-groups Agency and the UK Blood Services, are currently led by one or more members of the group, drawing in considering these issues. I refer the hon. Member to the additional advice and expertise as necessary. written answer I gave him on 27 January 2010, Official The worksteam topics are: Report, column 942W. agreeing priority topics for dementia research, in each of the three main areas of cause, cure and care; Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: Staffordshire finding ways of raising public awareness of, and support for, dementia research and increasing public engagement in dementia Mr. Cash: To ask the Secretary of State for Health research; (1) what steps he has taken to ensure that Staffordshire increasing the success of dementia research in securing available has adequate specialist clinics for the treatment of funding and support and identifying ways to improve the myelgic encephalomyelitis and chronic fatigue capacity and capability of the dementia research workforce; syndrome; [321937] developing better ways of working between researchers and between public and private sectors; and identifying further (2) what funding he plans to provide to specialist ways to ’bust bureaucracy’ where there are issues specific to clinics in Staffordshire for the treatment of myelgic dementia research; and encephalomyelitis and chronic fatigue syndrome. improving the ’translation’ of research into better treatment [321938] and care. Each workstream sub-group will examine its specific Ann Keen: This information is not available. It is for area in detail, identifying the major issues and suggesting local primary care trusts (PCTs) to decide what practical ways to address them. treatments to fund, and the Department does not dictate centrally how PCTs spend their budgets. We believe it is right that PCTs should decide how to spend their budgets Departmental Internet based on the specific health care needs of their local populations. Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the answer of 1 March 2010, Official Dementia: Health Services Report, column 866W, on departmental internet, what the cost was of the website redesign. [321929] Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the answer of 2 February 2010, Phil Hope: The Department relaunched its corporate Official Report, columns 224-25W, on dementia: drugs, website: what the salary is for the post of National Clinical www.dh.gov.uk Director for Dementia. [322271] on 10 February 2008 following a project to redesign the site and restructure the content. The total cost of the Phil Hope: The application pack for the post, which is redesign and implementation project was £513,000. This a secondment, made clear that the salary for 2.5 days a includes user research, visual and template design, content week would be between £75,383 and £95,333 (or equivalent review and restructure, technical build, test and deployment, to Agenda for Change band 9), and that secondees who and testing. fell outside this pay range would be expected to come across on their current salary. Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Health It is not the practice of the Department to reveal how many designs for its (a) internal website and (b) personal salary details for its staff unless they are intranet his Department has commissioned since 2005; covered in the remuneration report of the annual resource and what the cost was of each such design. [321987] accounts which covers staff at board level. In common with other Departments and agencies, the Department Phil Hope: The Department has an intranet site. will shortly publish details on its website of staff earning Since 2005 there have been two redesigns commissioned. over £150,000. In this case, the National Clinical Director for Dementia does not take up post until 1 April 2010 In 2006 the design costs were £43,000. and his salary is yet to be determined. In 2008-2009 the design costs were £26,576. 771W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 772W

Departmental Lost Property Eyesight: Testing

John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mrs. Dean: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what property has been recorded as (a) lost and (b) if he will make it his policy to retain the age of stolen from his Department in the last 12 months; and eligibility for free NHS sight tests for women at 60 or what estimate has been made of the cost of the over when the female state pension age rises above 60. replacement of that property. [322077] [322000] Ann Keen: The 2009 pre-Budget report announced Phil Hope: The Department does not distinguish that the age at which pensioner benefits can be received between the two categories ‘lost’ and ‘stolen’ as these will increase in line with the female state pension age. categories are not, and have not historically been, recorded The Government are working to give effect to these separately. proposals. Changes to eligibility for national health From 1 April 2008 to 31 March 2009 the following service-funded sight tests for people aged 60 or over items of departmental property were reported lost or would require primary legislation. stolen with an estimated replacement cost of £38,610. Fertility

Number Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mobile phones 18 whether the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Laptops 34 Authority (HFEA) classifies (a) unfertilised eggs and BlackBerry hand held devices 22 (b) immature human eggs that have not been used to Projectors 2 create an embryo as eggs that have failed to fertilise; Storage devices (memory sticks 2 and what guidance has been issued to the HFEA on the etc.) application of the provisions of the Human Other equipment 23 Fertilisation and Embryology Acts 1990 and 2008 to Total losses 101 the classification of eggs that have failed to fertilise. [322329] Electromagnetic Fields: Health Hazards Gillian Merron: The Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA) has advised that eggs Lembit Öpik: To ask the Secretary of State for which are classified as failed to fertilise are those eggs Health how many cases of illness or other ailments in which have had sperm applied to them but subsequently children attributable to the operation of did not fertilise. The Government have not given any electromagnetic fields have been reported since 2001; guidance to the HFEA on how it should classify any and if he will make a statement. [322015] egg that does not fertilise. Health Services: Isle of Man Gillian Merron: The Department does not hold this information centrally. Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for The Department has supported research over the last Health pursuant to the answer of 10 March 2010, decade in relation to concerns that there might be Official Report, column 350W, on health services: adverse effects from the low levels of exposure to reciprocal arrangements, by what means his electromagnetic fields from power lines, mobile phones Department made the Isle of Man government aware and telecommunications masts. In the course of this of its position on 9 March 2010. [322667] work, the scientific and medical communities have become Gillian Merron: Officials at the Department contacted, aware of people who report an unusual sensitivity to by phone, officials from the Isle of Man Government. electric or magnetic fields. A range of symptoms was Further e-mail advice was sent on 15 March 2010. noted by the Health Protection Agency’s (HPA’s) Radiation Protection Division in its publication, ‘Mobile Phone Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for and Health 2004’, which is available on the HPA website Health (1) if he will meet the co-chair of the at: British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, the right hon. www.hpa.org.uk/webw/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/ Member for Torfaen, to discuss the contents of his HPAweb_C/1254510624582?p=1219908766891 recent letter setting out the terms of the unanimous The HPA also published a study entitled ‘Definition, resolution passed by the Assembly requesting Epidemiology and Management of Electrical Sensitivity’, deferment of the decision to revoke the reciprocal which is also available on the HPA website at: health agreement between the UK and the Isle of Man; [322680] www.hpa.org.uk/webw/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/ and if he will make a statement; HPAweb_C/1247816558210?p=1197637096018 (2) on what date his officials informed him of the The HPA is undertaking a programme of research on letter from the co-chair of the British-Irish wireless local area networks, including wi-fi use in schools. Parliamentary Assembly, the right hon. Member for Information about these studies is available on the HPA Torfaen, setting out the terms of the unanimous website at: resolution passed by the Assembly requesting deferment of the decision to revoke the reciprocal www.hpa.org.uk/HPA/Topics/Radiation/ health agreement between the UK and the Isle of Man; UnderstandingRadiation/1199451940308/ and if he will make a statement. [322681] The Health Protection Agency and the World Health Organisation keep scientific reports on health effects Gillian Merron: The Department received the letter from electromagnetic fields under review. on 3 March 2010 and will reply in due course. 773W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 774W

Home Care Services: Finance Medical Records: Publicity

Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for for Health how much his Department had spent on Eddisbury of 25 February 2010, Official Report, leafleting campaigns relating to the Summary Care column 751W, on home care services, how much he Record in (a) London and (b) England on the latest estimates the cost of providing free personal home care date for which figures are available. [322230] will be, including costs for those who already get this care for free, in 2010-11. [320788] Mr. Mike O’Brien: Between 1 January and 28 February 2010, 6,754,089 information packs were produced and Mr. Mike O’Brien: The projected costs of implementing sent to patients as part of the summary care record the Personal Care at Home Bill are set out in the impact (SCR) public information programme, at a total cost of assessment, which has already been placed in the Library. £1,734,450. Of these, 1,113,228 information packs were These do not include costs for those who already receive sent to people in London, at a cost of £285,877, and free home care; this will not represent an additional 5,640,861 were sent to patients in other parts of England, expense to councils with adult social services responsibilities, at a cost of £1,448,573. as they are already funding such care. In the period from the start of the early adopter phase of the SCR programme in March 2007, to Hypertension 31 December 2009, information packs were produced and sent to 2,336,774 patients in England. During this Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State time mailing and postage costs were met by local national for Health what estimate he has made of the number of health service organisations and information is not held operations in NHS hospitals which were postponed centrally on the costs involved. The unit cost of producing consequent on the detection of high blood pressure in these information packs was 13.59 per pack. the patient in each of the last five years. [322231] A key reason for moving to regional public information programmes from 1 January 2010 was the improved Mr. Mike O’Brien: The information requested is not value for money achieved by producing and distributing collected centrally. materials on a larger scale.

Influenza: York Medical Treatments: Waiting Lists Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether he has made an estimate of the number Norman Lamb: To ask the Secretary of State for of pensioners from York who have received influenza Health what the average waiting time for all treatments injections in the last 12 months. [322130] was in each year since 1997. [321943]

Gillian Merron: Data on the number of people who Mr. Mike O’Brien: The information requested is shown have received influenza vaccine during the influenza in the following table: season (winter) 2009-10 are available nationally and at the strategic health authority and the primary care trust In-patient waiting times—commissioner based (PCT) levels. No data are available for individual towns As at March each year Median wait (weeks) or cities. 1997 13.2 It is estimated that in the North Yorkshire and York 1998 14.9 PCT up to the end of January 2010, 75,717 people aged 1999 12.9 65 years and older have received the seasonal influenza 2000 12.9 vaccine and about 36,000 people aged 65 years and 2001 12.6 older have received swine influenza vaccine. Only those 2002 12.7 65 and over in a risk group were eligible for the swine flu 2003 11.9 vaccine. 2004 10.2 2005 8.5 Injuries: Dangerous Dogs 2006 7.3 2007 6.2 Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Secretary of State 2008 4.5 for Health how many people were treated at (a) an 2009 4.0 accident and emergency department and (b) an urgent Notes: care centre following an attack by a dangerous dog in 1. Figures shown relate to March each year, and are a snapshot of the median wait of patients waiting at the end of each period. The latest the last 12 months. [321882] data available are for January 2010, and this figure shows the median wait of those still waiting at the end of that month of 5.0 weeks. Mr. Mike O’Brien: Information is not collected centrally March 2010 data will be published on 30 April 2010 in the format requested. For such information as is 2. It should be noted that median waits in the winter months historically available, I refer the hon. Member to the written answer tend to be higher than other months. We would therefore expect the median at March 2010 to be lower than five weeks as shown in I gave the hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris January 2010. Grayling) on 8 February 2010, Official Report, columns Source: 702-03W. Department, of Health, QF01, MMRCOM 775W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 776W

Medicine: Overseas Students objective of current discussions is to explore how to achieve a part of the national programme’s £600 millions Hilary Armstrong: To ask the Secretary of State for contribution to the Government-wide plans to find Health whether his Department plans to review its efficiency savings and better value for money on major restrictions on access to post-graduate medical projects. These particular discussions are expected to be education by non-EEA graduates. [322003] concluded by the end of March 2010. There is no fixed timetable for future meetings, which Ann Keen: The Department undertook a consultation will continue to occur as required. exercise about managing medical migration last year Formal minutes of meetings since the beginning of and there was strong support for the restrictions on January have not been taken. access to post-graduate medical education by non-European economic area graduates and there has been no change Ovarian Cancer in circumstance since then that indicates a review is required. Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Secretary of State NHS: Foreign Workers for Health what estimate he has made of the number of women whose symptoms were initially misdiagnosed Hilary Armstrong: To ask the Secretary of State for by their GP and who went on to develop terminal Health (1) by what mechanisms adherence to the NHS ovarian cancer since 2005. [322223] Code of Practice on the International Recruitment of Healthcare Workers is (a) monitored and (b) Ann Keen: This information is not collected centrally. The Office for National Statistics is responsible for enforced; [322004] compiling and publishing mortality data, but the (2) what assessment he has made of the effects on information concerning misdiagnosis does not form (a) the number of African health workers employed in part of that work. the NHS and (b) the number of British private recruitment agencies recruiting health workers from From a recent independent study on the awareness of Africa of the NHS Code of Practice on International the signs and symptoms of ovarian cancer, we know that awareness of ovarian cancer is low. Through the Recruitment since 2001. [322050] work of the National Awareness and Early Diagnosis Ann Keen: There is no centrally held information on Initiative, we are making the public and health professionals the country of origin of health-workers, this is not more aware of the signs and symptoms of cancer, captured in the national health service census. including ovarian cancer. The total number of British private recruitment agencies On 29 September 2009, the Prime Minister announced registered with the NHS Code of Practice on International plans to offer all patients in England access to tests Recruitment at January 2010 was 531. It is not known which can confirm or exclude cancer within one week. how many agencies have recruited specifically from Under the new plans, where the general practitioner Africa since 2001. (GP) thinks that the risk of cancer does not justify a two-week urgent referral to see a specialist, but there NHS Employers is responsible for promotion, advice are symptoms which require investigation, the GP will and guidance on international recruitment. be able to refer for the appropriate tests to be carried NHS: ICT out within one week. Our aim is to start rolling this out from 2011-12 over Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State a five-year period, starting in the first two years with for Health (1) what contractual negotiations his ovarian, lung and colorectal cancer, where people will Department is engaged in with (a) Computer Sciences be able to expect access to the relevant diagnostics and Corporation and (b) BT in relation to the National test results within two weeks. Programme for IT; what timetable has been set for the completion of these negotiations; and what assessment Palliative Care he has made of the likely effects on the monetary value of the current contracts held by these companies of Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Health those negotiations; [322232] (1) what recent estimate he has made of the number (2) on what dates his Department has met (a) BT and proportion of people with (a) terminal cancer and and (b) Computer Sciences Corporation to discuss the (b) another terminal condition who receive care National Programme for IT since the beginning of through (i) the healthcare system, (ii) the social care January 2010; what timetable he has set for future system and (iii) the social care and healthcare systems; meetings with those companies; what items were in the [322161] agenda of each of those meetings; and if he will place (2) whether patients with (a) terminal cancer and in the Library a copy of the minutes of each of those (b) another terminal condition are automatically meetings. [322233] eligible for assistance through the social care system. [322162] Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Department routinely engages with both the Computer Sciences Corporation and BT Ann Keen: Information concerning the number and about a range of operational and commercial matters in proportion of people with terminal cancer or another relation to the national information technology programme terminal condition who receive care through the healthcare contracts, and has continued to do so on numerous system, the social care system, or the social care and occasions since the beginning of January 2010. One healthcare systems, is not collected centrally. 777W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 778W

Patients with terminal cancer or another terminal because of their faith or belief and take every opportunity condition are not automatically eligible for social care to urge Afghanistan to implement laws and practices assistance on the basis of their diagnosis. Entitlement which foster tolerance and mutual respect. This includes to assistance is based on an individual’s care needs full implementation of those norms laid out in the 1981 assessment. UN Declaration on the Elimination of all Forms of Councils have a duty under section 47(1) of the NHS Intolerance and of Discrimination Based on Religion and Community Care Act 1990, to carry out a community or Belief. We receive regular updates on the human care assessment on anyone who appears to be in need of rights situation in Afghanistan, including on the treatment community care services. of religious minorities, from organisations such as the UN and non-governmental organisations. We have not Pregnant Women: Drugs received any confirmed reports of mistreatment of religious minorities in Afghanistan. Our embassy in Kabul continues Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health to follow the human rights situation on the ground how many births to women addicted to (a) closely and raise matters of concern with the Afghan prescription, (b) non-prescription and (c) illegal drugs Government. there were in each year since 1997; and if he will make Bangladesh: Internally Displaced Persons a statement. [322017]

Gillian Merron: The data requested are not in the Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign format requested. and Commonwealth Affairs (1) whether he has had discussions with the government of Bangladesh on Psychiatry: Young People recent reports of arrests and forced displacements of Rohingya refugees; if he will request that the Mr. Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Government of Bangladesh recognises as refugees Health (1) which primary care trusts do not employ those of Rohingya origin who do not have documents; any child and adolescent psychotherapists; [321885] and if he will make a statement; [322602] (2) which primary care trusts employ child and (2) what recent reports he has received on action adolescent psychotherapists; and how many each against Rohingya refugees by Bangladesh law employs. [321886] enforcement authorities; and if he will make a statement. [322605] Ann Keen: The information requested has been placed in the Library. Mr. Ivan Lewis: We are concerned by the recent reports by Medecins Sans Frontieres and Physicians for Smoking: Health Services Human Rights on the situation facing displaced Rohingyas in Bangladesh. We have raised the plight of the Rohingyas Lembit Öpik: To ask the Secretary of State for and their status with the Government of Bangladesh, Health how many free Quit Kits the NHS has both bilaterally and in concert with EU partners. distributed since the start of the Smokefree scheme; Officials from our High Commission in Dhaka, including and if he will make a statement. [322014] the High Commissioner, have visited the camps for displaced Rohingyas, which are run by UN agencies. We Gillian Merron: As at 7 March 2010, the national are also supporting the European Commission and UN 1 health service had distributed 421,420 Quit Kits. In programmes for Rohingyas through the UK’s core funding addition, 95,000 Quit Kits were distributed through a to the EU and the UN. In 2009, the UK Government 2 part-funded arrangement with Asda pharmacies . The also funded a British Council project to train English campaign launched on 26 December 2009. teachers within the camps. 1 These figures refer to Quit Kits ordered as a result of national advertising activity (web, phone, text, banner ads, F2F and coupons Burma: Dams from direct mail, door drop and inserts) and sent out via our call centre Callcredit. Please note that these will not be the final Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign audited figures. and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has had recent 2 Asda part funded this activity splitting the cost of the production discussions with the Chinese government on the of the quit kits and taking on the full costs of distribution of the construction of dams on the Irrawaddy river by the kits to all the Asda stores. China Power Investment Corporation and Burmese Ministry of Energy; and if he will make a statement. [322604] FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Mr. Ivan Lewis: My right hon. Friends the Prime Afghanistan: Religious Freedom Minister and the Foreign Secretary have discussed Burma with their Chinese counterparts. In recent weeks officials Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for have discussed our broad concerns about the impact of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent large-scale construction projects on the human rights of reports his Department has received on the treatment the local population. We have not raised the specific of religious minorities in Afghanistan. [321657] issue of the construction of dams on the Irrawaddy River, but are following developments closely and with Mr. Ivan Lewis: Promoting human rights is integral increasing concern. Our embassy in Rangoon is also to building a stable democracy in Afghanistan. We supporting work to assess the social and environmental condemn all instances where individuals are persecuted impact of these projects 779W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 780W

Burma: Ethnic Groups Capita

Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Mr. Touhig: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has and Commonwealth Affairs on how many occasions received on deportations from Thailand to Burma of Capita Group plc tendered for contracts let by his ethnic Karen people; and if he will make a statement. Department in each of the last five years; how many [322610] such tenders were successful; how much his Department paid to Capita Group plc for the execution Mr. Ivan Lewis: We are closely monitoring reports of contracts in each such year; how many contracts about the possible forced return of Karen refugees to which terminate after 2010 Capita Group plc hold with Burma. Our Ambassador to Thailand has raised our his Department; and what the monetary value is of all concerns with the Thai authorities stressing the importance outstanding contracts between his Department and of adherence to international standards and to Thailand’s Capita Group plc. [303155] international obligations. We understand that the Royal Thai Government decided not to deport the 30 families Chris Bryant: Capita Group PLC has primarily provided it had originally identified for removal. We are coordinating services to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) closely with the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, in the last five years undertaking and supporting specific US and EU partners and will continue to raise the issue recruitment campaigns as well as recruiting individual with Thai authorities. specialists and other staff to fill specific slots in the organisation both in the UK and overseas. Burma: Political Prisoners The FCO is committed to recruiting a talented and diverse work force, ensuring that the most qualified Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for candidates from the widest range of backgrounds apply. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent It sometimes outsources specific recruitment campaigns discussions he has had (a) at EU level, (b) with the US for new entrants, and when specialist knowledge of a administration and (c) with the Burmese government specific job market is required. This is more cost effective on the case of Nyi Nyi Aung. [322478] than running all recruitment campaigns through a larger in-house team and is a model used extensively across Mr. Ivan Lewis: Our embassies in Rangoon and in Central Government. Washington have discussed the plight of Nyi Nyi Aung The following amounts were paid to Capita Group and developments in his case with US officials. While PLC by the FCO in the UK in each of the last five we regularly urge the Burmese regime to release all of years: the more than 2,100 political prisoners currently in detention, we have not raised this specific case directly £ with the authorities. We would naturally be ready to do so were the US Government to indicate this would be 2005-06 561,738 helpful. There has been no formal EU discussion on the 2006-07 876,185 case of Nyi Nyi Aung. 2007-08 273,439 2008-09 127,294 Burundi: Politics and Government 2009-10 25,527 FCO Services, an Executive Agency of the FCO Malcolm Bruce: To ask the Secretary of State for operating as an independent Trading Fund since 1 April Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent 2008 spent the following amounts with Capita Group reports he has received on the (a) treatment of PLC: opposition parties in Burundi and (b) activities of the youth wings affiliated to political parties in Burundi, £ with particular reference to the (i) National Council for the Defence of Democracy Forces for the Defence of 2007-08 118,000 Democracy and (ii) Front for Democracy in Burundi. 2008-09 187,000 [321652] 2009-10 561,000

Mr. Ivan Lewis: Opposition parties in Burundi have FCO Services acquired Trading Fund Status in been functioning as normal over the past three months April 2008. To be a successful and efficient trading in the run-up to the elections due to start in May, organisation, a different set of skills and underlying including free circulation of politicians in all areas, processes were required. Temporary skills and resource holding of party congresses, opening of new party were therefore brought into the organisation by Capita offices and putting forward of election candidates. There through a government procurement framework, in order have been minor scuffles between the “Inbonerakure”, to help set up of new processes and then transfer those youth wing of the ruling National Council for Defence skills in house. For example, FCO Services needed to of Democracy—Forces for the Defence of Democracy develop its own capability to support critical services and the Young Defenders of Burundian Democracy, around the world in the event of a business continuity youth wing of the Front for Democracy in Burundi. incident. As these skill sets were new and not available The Minister of Interior has banned all youth wing in-house, a temporary contract was provided through activity in the province of Kirundo, and has vowed to Capita to build up this capability and enable the skill extend the ban to other provinces in case of further sets and processes to be adapted and transferred in- trouble. house. Contracts were also, for example, awarded through 781W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 782W

Capita to provide specialist sales and marketing resources. Mr. Ivan Lewis: Terrorism is an international problem FCO Services had no specialist sales people prior to that requires an international response. Building a coalition trading fund, but the need to drive forward their wider is the only effective means by which we will counter it. market sales in order to enable financial benefits to the The Government, therefore, attach great importance to FCO (e.g. price stabilisation and dividends) meant FCO our counter-terrorism work overseas, with both partner Services needed the skills these resources provided. Governments and multilateral organisations. Our aim is Prior to 2007-08, FCO Services spend with Capita to share best practice, co-ordinate UK effort bilaterally Group PLC is incorporated in the overall FCO figures. and multilaterally, ensure we avoid duplication of work Information regarding how many occasions Capita and encourage others to take a comprehensive approach Group PLC tendered for FCO contracts in each of the to countering the terrorist threat. The response of the last five years; how many such tenders were successful; international community to the failed Detroit bomb on how many contracts which terminate after 2010 Capita Christmas Day illustrates the strength and breadth of Group PLC hold; what the monetary value is of all the coalition against terrorism with January’s Yemen outstanding contracts with Capita Group PLC; and the meeting convened by my right hon. Friend the Prime spend by overseas posts with Capita Group PLC, is not Minister and attended by partners from the region and held centrally and would be available only at across the globe, helping to co-ordinate support for the disproportionate cost. people and Government of Yemen to tackle the threat from al-Qaeda and address its root causes. Colombia: Human Rights Democratic Republic of Congo: Natural Resources Jim Sheridan: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions Mr. Chaytor: To ask the Secretary of State for he has had with the government of Colombia on (a) Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions the arrest, (b) the imprisonment and (c) due process he has had with his counterpart in the Democratic in the trial of Professor Miguel Angel Beltran Villegas. Republic of Congo on implementation of the [321612] Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative; and if he will make a statement. [320356] Chris Bryant: We have had no discussions with the Colombian government about the arrest, imprisonment Mr. Ivan Lewis: Support for the implementation of or trial of Professor Villegas. However, we understand the Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative (EITI) that he has been charged with ‘rebellion’; we have forms a core part of our work to improve transparency previously pointed out to the Colombian Government in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). My that those charged with crimes such as ‘rebellion’ should noble Friend, the Minister for Africa, was in the country have their legal rights fully respected, including to a last month and spoke with Prime Minister Muzito timely and fair trial. about the need for economic development and the building of conditions which are conducive to business. Jim Sheridan: To ask the Secretary of State for He saw this as a priority and recognised that there is Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent much work to be done. discussions he has had with the government of Colombia on academic freedom in that country. Despite a slow start EITI (Extractive Industries [321613] Transparency Initiative) implementation in the DRC has recently been making considerable progress culminating Chris Bryant: We have not had any recent discussions in the publication of the first report on copper/cobalt with the Colombian Government on this issue. However, and oil. Validation has started and there is reason to we constantly reiterate the need for the human rights of hope that the country’s efforts will receive a largely all Colombians to be recognised and protected. positive reception from the International Secretariat in Oslo. Jim Sheridan: To ask the Secretary of State for The Great Lakes Contact Group Taskforce on Mineral Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will request Exploitation had its first meeting in Kinshasa on 21 and the government of Colombia to produce the evidence it 22 January 2010 with the Minister and Vice Minister for holds to substantiate the claim that Miguel Angel mines and representatives from the Ministry of Defence, Beltran Villegas is (a) a member of the FARC and (b) Interior and others, plus non-governmental organisations the person known as Jaime Cienfuegos. [321614] and Congolese commercial interests/industry attending. Chris Bryant: We cannot interfere in the legal process A draft text was agreed which included proposals on of another country. However, we have previously pointed due diligence, legalisation of trade (Department for out to the Colombian Government that those charged International Development Trading for Peace initiative), with crimes such as ‘rebellion’ should have their legal certification and financial infrastructure. The paper will rights fully respected, including to a timely and fair now be presented to the DRC cabinet and capitals for trial. Our embassy in Bogota will monitor the proceedings final approval. of this case. Departmental Disciplinary Proceedings Counter-terrorism: International Cooperation Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many (a) Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent disciplinary and (b) capability procedures have been (i) assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the initiated and (ii) completed in his Department in each international coalition against terrorism; and if he will of the last five years; how much time on average was make a statement. [322679] taken to complete each type of procedure in each such 783W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 784W year; how many and what proportion of his The number of staff who were subject to the (b1) Department’s staff were subject to each type of performance improvement procedures and (b2) sickness procedure in each such year; and how many and what absence procedures in each such year and the proportion proportion of each type of procedure resulted in the this represents is: dismissal of the member of staff. [320631] FCO Main FCO Services Chris Bryant: The number of disciplinary cases that Number Percentage Number Percentage have been (i) initiated and (ii) completed in each of the last five years in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office b1 2006 11 0.2 0 0 (FCO) and its agency FCO Services are as follows. b1 2007 16 0.3 0 0 b1 2008 19 0.4 0 0 FCO Main FCO Services b1 2009 23 0.4 1 0.01 Initiated Completed Initiated Completed b1 2010 10 0.2 0 0 b2 2006 1— 1—00 2006 25 25 8 8 b2 2007 1— 1—00 2007 21 21 7 7 b2 2008 1— 1— 13 0.2 2008 33 33 5 5 b2 2009 49 0.9 29 0.1 2009 35 35 7 6 b2 2010 29 0.5 5 0.1 2010 11 4 3 3 1 No central records held. As there are fewer than five dismissals in each of the We do not hold central records of how much time on five years, details are not provided to avoid revealing the average was taken to complete the misconduct procedure identity of individual and on grounds of confidentiality. in each such year; to collate this information would incur disproportionate costs. These figures are for UK Based staff only. We do not hold central records for staff employed locally overseas The number of staff who were subject to disciplinary and to obtain them would incur disproportionate costs. action under the FCO misconduct procedure in each such year and the proportion this represents is as follows. The figures do not include those who resigned before the procedures were concluded. FCO Main FCO Services Departmental Internet Number Percentage Number Percentage 2006 25 0.4 8 0.1 Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign 2007 18 0.3 7 0.1 and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer of 2008 30 0.5 5 0.1 1 March 2010, Official Report, column 840W, on 2009 33 0.6 7 0.1 departmental internet, what the cost was of the website 2010 11 0.2 3 0.02 redesign. [321930]

There were six (0.1 per cent.) dismissals (combining Chris Bryant: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I FCO Main and FCO Services) resulting from misconduct gave on 15 December 2009, namely, it is not possible to procedure in 2006. As there are less than five dismissals break down the costs for the 2008 redesign because the in each of the following four years details are not redesign costs were part of the wider Foreign and provided to avoid revealing the identity of individual Commonwealth Office (FCO) web platform project, and on grounds of confidentiality which was delivered by Logica. Logica subcontracted The number of capability (b1—performance) and elements of the project out (for example, to XM for (b2—sickness absence) cases that have been (i) initiated design, to Alterian for the content management system, and (ii) completed in each of the last five years are in to Verizon for hosting). The amount Logica paid the following table. subcontractors for the design work is commercially protected and not known to the FCO. FCO Main FCO Services In October 2009, the FCO redesigned the FCO corporate Initiated Completed Initiated Completed site: www.fco.gov.uk b1 2006 11 11 0 0 b1 2007 16 16 0 0 The work was completed using in-house resources at no b1 2008 19 19 0 0 additional cost. The in-house resources cannot be disaggregated from the ongoing cost of maintaining the b1 2009 22 15 1 1 FCO web platform. b1 2010 3 10 0 0 b2 2006 1— 1—00 1 1 Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign B2 2007 — —00and Commonwealth Affairs how many designs for its 1 1 b2 2008 — —1313(a) internal website and (b) intranet his Department b2 2009 49 28 29 29 has commissioned since 2005; and what the cost was of b220108055each such design. [321988] 1 No central records held. We do not hold central records of how much time on Chris Bryant: FCONet, the Foreign and Commonwealth average was taken to complete the (b1) performance Office (FCO)’s intranet, has had two redesigns since improvement and/or (b2) sickness absence procedures 2005. The first design was commissioned to an external in each such year; to collate this information would company at a cost of £28,680 and released in February incur disproportionate costs. 2008. The second design is being carried out now for 785W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 786W release by 31 March 2010 and involves minor changes 80 per cent. of the FCO’s bespoke print paper products to refresh some aspects of the design. The design was from its in-house print facility are made from 100 per provided by an internal designer as part of our ongoing cent. recycled materials. commitment to seek value for money and is being FCO Services, an Executive Agency of the FCO that applied to the intranet by our standing development has been operating independently as a Trading Fund team at no additional cost. since 1 April 2008, also has a framework agreement FCONet is the FCO’s core internal communications with Woodway Packaging for the supply of packing and information tool and recently won an ’Award of materials such as flatpack boxes and corrugated cardboard. Excellence’ from Communicators in Business who described Information about the suppliers and brands of paper the intranet as “a definite beacon of best practice.” and paper products purchased by our missions overseas is not held centrally and would only be available at Departmental Legal Costs disproportionate cost. The FCO is committed to operating in a sustainable Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and environmentally sound manner. All staff in the UK and Commonwealth Affairs how much his Department and working in its missions overseas are informed that has spent in (a) legal fees and (b) compensation on it is policy to purchase 100 per cent. re-cycled paper. legal cases concerning remuneration of its employees in They are also informed that all paper and paper products each of the last 10 years. [322060] should be purchased in line with Department for the Environment Food and Rural Affair’s “Buy Sustainable— Chris Bryant: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office Quick Wins” guidance. (FCO) only retains employment litigation records from 2003 onwards. Records show that legal fees on cases concerning remuneration of FCO employees in each Departmental Travel year from 2003 to date, were as follows: Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State £ for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much (a) 2003 0 Ministers and (b) staff of each grade in (i) his 2004 14,983.85 Department and (ii) its agencies spent on first class 2005 0 travel in the last 12 months. [320400] 2006 17,587.04 2007 3,066.32 Chris Bryant: I refer the hon. Member to the answer 2008 14,767.06 given by Meg Munn on 19 March 2008, Official Report, 2009 0 column 1188w, namely, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office makes travel arrangements in the most efficient There are fewer than five legal cases concerning and cost effective way. All official travel is undertaken in remuneration of FCO employees in each year from accordance with the rules set out in the code of 2003 to date, and any compensation paid is subject to a management. As the information requested by the hon. legally binding compromise agreement containing a Member is not held centrally it would incur disproportionate confidentiality clause. Therefore, in line with Cabinet cost to collate. Office guidance details are not provided to avoid revealing the identity of individuals and on grounds of confidentiality. Falkland Islands Departmental Paper Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what (a) has had with his US counterpart on the Falkland suppliers and (b) brands of (i) paper and (ii) paper Islands; and if he will make a statement. [321835] products his Department uses; and what his Department’s policy is on the procurement of those Chris Bryant: None. We have no doubt about our materials. [320030] sovereignty over the Falkland Islands and surrounding maritime areas. The principle of self determination Chris Bryant: Since October 2007, the Foreign and underlies our position. We are, of course, in regular Commonwealth Office (FCO) uses a collaborative touch with the US at official level on this and many government framework agreement put in place by the other issues. The US continues to recognise the UK’s Ministry of Defence for its supplies of paper in the UK. administration of the Falkland Islands. Positions are The supplier of the Framework is Office Depot. All A4 long standing, unchanged and well known. photocopy and printer paper purchased by the FCO is made from 100 per cent. recycled materials. A number Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign of more specialised paper products are made from and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has 75 per cent. recycled materials. had in each of the last five years with his Argentine The FCO purchases hygiene paper products by Andrex, counterpart on sovereignty over the Falkland Islands; Scotts, Wypall and Tork (manufactured by Kimberley and if he will make a statement. [321836] Clark and FCA) for its bathrooms, toilets and kitchen facilities in its offices in the UK. Chris Bryant: None. 787W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 788W

Iran: Religious Freedom Members: Correspondence

Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he plans to made of the human rights situation of Jewish people in reply to the letter of 20 January 2010 from the right Iran since October 2009; and if he will make a hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton regarding statement. [321839] Mr. M Kirkham. [322723] David Miliband: I replied to the right hon. Member Mr. Ivan Lewis: Jews are one of three religious minorities, for Manchester, Gorton on 14 March 2010. alongside Christians and Zoroastrians, which are constitutionally permitted to practise their religious Morocco: International Assistance faith in Iran. In reality however, they cannot hold positions in the judiciary, police and security forces, limiting the role they are permitted to play in public life. Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for Although Jews have enjoyed a relative degree of freedom to Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many practise their religion, including the use of Hebrew for volunteer workers at the Village of Hope/Village de religious instruction, they face various limitations on l’Espérance at Ain Leuh ordered to leave by the their rights to travel and to communicate with Jewish government of Morocco are (a) United Kingdom and communities outside Iran, especially in Israel. (b) European Union citizens; and if he will make a statement. [321851] Iran’s anti-Israel policy continues to create an atmosphere of fear and intimidation among Iran’s Jews, and this Mr. Ivan Lewis: 10 UK citizens and seven other fear has been propagated by President Ahmadinejad’s European Union citizens have been expelled from Morocco. repeated denial of the Holocaust, anti-Semitic and anti- Israeli propaganda in the media. The Government have Foreign Office officials in London met with the Moroccan raised concerns over the treatment of Iran’s religious Chargé d’Affaires on 10 March to express the UK’s minorities on many occasions with the Iranian authorities, concerns. Foreign Office officials in Rabat have asked calling on the Iranian authorities to uphold their the Moroccan authorities for a full briefing on the international legal undertakings to safeguard religious matter. freedom and to stop discrimination and persecution on the grounds of religion. Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has made of the implications for future Iraq: Iran EU-Morocco relations of the decision of the government of Morocco to expel volunteer workers from the Village of Hope/Village de l’Espérance at Ain Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Leuh on the charge of proselytizing the Kafala and Commonwealth Affairs what recent community and orphaned children in the province of representations he has made to the government of Iraq Ifrant; and if he will make a statement. [321852] on the situation in Camp Ashraf; and if he will take steps to ensure that residents of Camp Ashraf are not Mr. Ivan Lewis: No assessment has yet been made of driven from Iraq. [322053] the implications for future EU-Morocco relations. Respect for human rights principles, as set out in the Universal Mr. Ivan Lewis: We have discussed the situation at Declaration of Human Rights is an essential element of Camp Ashraf with the Iraqi Prime Minister, the Foreign the EU’s association agreement with Morocco. Minister, the Human Rights Minister, the Minister of Foreign Office officials in London met with the Moroccan Internal Affairs and the Iraqi Government’s Ashraf chargé d’affaires on 10 March to express the UK’s Committee. I met the Iraqi Foreign Minister in Baghdad concerns. Foreign Office officials in Rabat have asked in December 2009 and underlined the need for the Iraqi the Moroccan authorities for a full briefing on the authorities to deal with the residents of Camp Ashraf matter. in a way that meets international humanitarian standards. In addition we discuss the issue with the UN, US, and Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for the EU. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what The Iraqi authorities have told the residents that they representations he has made to the government of can no longer stay at Camp Ashraf but has given Morocco on its decision to expel all foreign volunteers, assurances that no residents will be forcibly transferred including EU citizens, from the Village of Hope/Village to a country where they have reason to fear persecution, de l’Espérance at Ain Leuh; and if he will make a or where substantial grounds exist to believe they statement. [321853] would be tortured. The Iraqi Human Rights Minister confirmed to our ambassador on 27 January 2010 that Mr. Ivan Lewis: My right hon. Friend the Foreign the Government of Iraq would deal with the residents Secretary has not discussed this with his Moroccan of the camp with respect for their human rights in counterparts. co-operation with the UN and the International Committee Foreign Office officials in London met with the Moroccan of the Red Cross. We believe it is in the interests of the chargé d’affaires on 10 March to express the UK’s residents to respect and accept the decision made by the concerns. Foreign Office officials in Rabat have asked Government of Iraq, and to cooperate peacefully with the Moroccan authorities for a full briefing on the the Iraqi authorities. matter. 789W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 790W

Morocco: Orphans The Returns and Reintegration Fund is managed by a cross-Government senior official steering group, which Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign is accountable to Ministers. Senior officials from the and Commonwealth Affairs if he will undertake an Department for International Development and UK investigation into the treatment of British staff at the Border Agency are members of that steering group. Christian orphanage in Fez. [322447] Mr. Moore: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Mr. Ivan Lewis: Our embassy in Morocco continues and Commonwealth Affairs how much funding (a) his to seek further information about the treatment of Department, (b) the Department for International British staff at the Christian orphanage in Morocco Development and (c) the UK Border Agency has and has asked the Moroccan authorities for a full provided for the Returns and Reintegration Fund in (i) briefing on the matter. 2008-09 and (ii) 2009-10; whether any such funding is We have provided consular assistance to those British classified as development assistance; and if he will citizens deported from Morocco. make a statement. [322337]

North Korea: Prisoners Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) provided £2.5 million to the Returns and Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Reintegration Fund (RRF) in 2008-09. There will be no Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his most further direct financial contribution to the fund from recent estimate is of the number of people held in the FCO in 2009-10, but the Department supports the North Korean labour camps. [321644] RRF through staffing and support throughout its global Mr. Ivan Lewis: I refer the hon. Member to my network. The Department for International Development response of 12 January 2010, Official Report, column provided £5 million to the RRF in 2008-09 and £11.5 million 956W which provides the most recent information I in 2009-10. UK Border Agency provided £4 million to have. the RRF in 2008-09 and £2.5 million in 2009-10. Only one RRF project in Jamaica currently to the Palestinians: Politics and Government value of approximately £1.5 million is classified as development assistance. Money transferred to the RRF Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for from the Department for International Development is Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent separate to the Department’s Official Development assessment he has made of the political situation in Assistance eligible budget. Gaza. [322400] Mr. Ivan Lewis: The situation in Gaza is very serious, South Africa: Football and it has the potential to derail any peace effort, but Hamas cannot be allowed to block peace negotiations. Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for We will continue to work both to improve the situation Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will discuss in Gaza and to move peace talks forward. with Ministerial colleagues steps to raise levels of We have made available £26.8 million for the relief awareness of people travelling to the 2010 World Cup operation and are pressing Israel to open the crossings finals in South Africa of HIV/AIDS. [322088] more fully to ensure the people of Gaza receive the humanitarian aid and reconstruction materials they Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Foreign and Commonwealth need. Office (FCO) and our high commission in Pretoria are working with a wide range of stakeholders to provide We are extremely concerned by reports that Hamas advice for British fans travelling to South Africa for the has moved violently against its political opponents and 2010 World Cup, including through the Know Before those deemed to be collaborators with Israeli forces. You Go campaign, working with associated partners, The UK calls for Hamas to halt such acts along with its and through FCO Travel Advice. Our official World terrorist attacks against southern Israel. Cup travel safety campaign “Be On the Ball”will reinforce Repatriation: Finance important safety messages, including on HIV and health, regularly in the run up to the World Cup, using a variety Mr. Moore: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign of communication methods. and Commonwealth Affairs what criteria are used to We are already providing advice and tips through the decide whether a country receives funding from the website Returns and Reintegration Fund; what role the (a) www.fco.gov.uk/worldcup Department for International Development and (b) which we will be regularly updating in the period leading UK Border Agency play in the management of the up to the World Cup. This includes a page dedicated to fund; and if he will make a statement. [322336] the issue of HIV and AIDS. Mr. Ivan Lewis: The overall aim of the Returns and Reintegration Fund (RRF) is to increase significantly Sri Lanka: Armed Conflict the number of foreign national prisoners (FNP) and failed asylum seekers (FAS) who return to their countries Mr. Keith Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for of origin and to ensure their effective reintegration into Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent their home communities. Funding is therefore allocated discussions his Department has had with its US to countries where we can run projects that will bring counterpart on allegations of war crimes during the about an increase in the rate of return of FAS and military conflict in northern Sri Lanka in 2009; and if FNPs. he will make a statement. [321846] 791W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 792W

Mr. Ivan Lewis: Officials from the Foreign and Asylum Qualifications Directive, and the Succession Commonwealth Office hold regular discussions with and Wills regulation the Government took the decision US officials on the need for a credible process to address not to opt in. In the case of the fourth proposal for a reports of violations of international humanitarian law Directive on Interpretation and Translation in Criminal by both sides during the conflict in Sri Lanka. We Proceedings, the Government informed the Commission believe this could play an important role towards genuine of its decision to opt in on 8 March. national reconciliation. In the case of the interim EU-US SWIFT agreement, the European Parliament voted against the proposal Terrorism: Detainees before the UK was required to exercise its opt-in. The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury has written to Mr. Winnick: To ask the Secretary of State for Parliament explaining these circumstances in more detail. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the Prime Minister’s oral answer to the hon. Member for Western Sahara: Politics and Government Walsall North of 10 March 2010, Official Report, column 294, on what date the Government made Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for representations to the US administration on the use of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions torture of detainees suspected of involvement in he has had with his Algerian counterpart on (a) the terrorism. [322448] decision to close land borders with Morocco since 1994 and (b) the effects of such closure on regional Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Intelligence and Security Committee co-operation on (i) security and (ii) counter-terrorism (ISC) 2005 report, ″The Handling of Detainees by UK initiatives; and if he will make a statement. [321618] intelligence Personnel in Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay ″ and Iraq sets out the actions taken by UK officials and Mr. Ivan Lewis: I have not had any specific discussion Ministers in response to concerns about the treatment with my Algerian counterpart regarding the 1994 closure of detainees in US custody. The report shows of land borders between Algeria and Morocco. However, representations were made to the US authorities from we do have regular dialogue with the Algerian authorities June 2002. Most of the specific incidents described in on regional co-operation, security of the region and the Committee’s Report were followed up with the US counter terrorism activities. These issues were last raised authorities, either in theatre or through intelligence and during the UK/Algeria ministerial dialogue meeting diplomatic channels, including at ministerial level. held in London on 2 March, which I co-chaired with Thailand: Children Abdelkader Messahel, the Algerian Minister Delegate for Maghreb and African Affairs.

Sir Alan Beith: To ask the Secretary of State for Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will take Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent steps to seek to secure the accession of Thailand to the discussions he has had with the United Nations High Hague Convention on international child abduction; Commissioner for Refugees on (a) Sahrawi refugees in and if he will make a statement. [321920] the Tindouf camps in Algeria and (b) proposals to undertake a census in such camps. [321619] Mr. Ivan Lewis: Thailand acceded to the 1980 Hague convention on the civil aspects of international child Mr. Ivan Lewis: Officials from our embassy in Rabat abduction on 14 August 2002. The convention is not recently discussed the situation of refugees in the Tindouf however in force between the United Kingdom and camps with representatives of the UN High Commissioner Thailand. Before entering into force with a country that for Refugees (UNHCR) in February. British officials accedes to the convention we need to be satisfied that also meet with UNHCR representatives as part of their the country has put in place the necessary systems to visits programme to the disputed territory of Western support its operation. To date we have not received Sahara and the refugee camps. There has been no sufficient information in order to be satisfied that Thailand discussion with UNHCR about undertaking a census has done so. of the populations in the camps during these meetings. Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what information Mr. Heathcoat-Amory: To ask the Secretary of State his Department holds on the powers the Moroccan for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs in how many government has offered to devolve to Western Sahara instances the Government has opted into a proposed in the framework of its autonomy initiative as measure presented to the Council of Ministers submitted to the United Nations Secretary General on pursuant to Title V of Part Three of the Treaty on the 11 April 2007. [322339] Functioning of the European Union within three months of its presentation to the Council in Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Foreign and Commonwealth circumstances when the UK has not opted into the Office has a copy of the proposal Morocco submitted proposal beforehand. [318887] to the UN Secretary-General in April 2007, which was noted in UN Security Council Resolution 1754 (2007) Chris Bryant: To date the Government have opted in as a serious and credible effort. The UK continues to to one new proposal pursuant to Title V of the Treaty support the efforts of the Secretary-General and his on the Functioning of the EU. Personal Envoy to Western Sahara, Ambassador Four opt-in decisions have been made since the Lisbon Christopher Ross, to build confidence between the parties Treaty came into force on 1 December 2009. In the case and find a negotiated political solution that provides for of the amended Asylum Procedures Directive, the amended the self-determination of the people of Western Sahara. 793W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 794W

Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for basis covers emissions from UK territory only and excludes Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what information emissions from international aviation and shipping. his Department holds on major infrastructure projects The most recent publication was on 12 June 2009 and statistics which have been undertaken by Morocco in Western on carbon dioxide emissions for the period 1990-2007 are available Sahara to modernise the region and improve the on the National Statistics website at the following address: standard of living of the local population. [322340] http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Expodata/Spreadsheets/ D5695.xls Mr. Ivan Lewis: Foreign and Commonwealth Office The table in the annex presents the weight of carbon dioxide officials have had briefings from Moroccan officials emissions created between 1990 and 2007 on a UK Environmental responsible for development programmes in Western Accounts basis. Sahara. These take place in the context of our programme Carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions between 1990 and 2007 of visits to the disputed territory; the most recent of Year Thousands of tonnes these visits being December 2009. 1990 626,765 Zimbabwe: Politics and Government 1991 634,897 1992 619,478 Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for 1993 607,200 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his most recent assessment is of the political situation in 1994 602,065 1995 595,001 Zimbabwe. [322676] 1996 622,792 Mr. Ivan Lewis: Hard-liners in Zimbabwe continue to 1997 601,665 obstruct implementation of the Global Political Agreement 1998 607,730 (GPA). This month President Mugabe reallocated some 1999 597,966 ministerial portfolios unilaterally. Human rights abuses 2000 609,416 and farm seizures continue. The media, electoral and 2001 625,779 human rights commissions on which the GPA signatories 2002 609,875 reiterated their agreement in December are not yet 2003 624,421 operational. 2004 631,084 Southern and South African diplomacy in support of 2005 632,180 reform is ongoing. As my right hon. Friend the Prime 2006 622,375 Minister made clear during President Zuma’s visit to 2007 613,000 the UK on 3 to 5 March 2010, we continue to support Source: President Zuma’s efforts to broker reforms leading to AEA Energy and Environment, Office for National Statistics free and fair elections in Zimbabwe. Carbon Emissions: Housing

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change whether he has made an Carbon Emissions assessment of the merits of withdrawing subsidies from suppliers of Carbon Emissions Reduction Target Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for scheme products in circumstances in which their Energy and Climate Change what volume of carbon products are deemed to be dominant in the market. dioxide emissions has been recorded in the UK on an [322482] environmental accounts basis in each year since 1990. [320331] Joan Ruddock: The supplier obligation (now termed Angela E. Smith: I have been asked to reply. the Carbon Emissions Reduction Target) has been set The information requested falls within the responsibility over three year cycles precisely to allow Government to of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority reflect on its successes and to evolve the scheme so that to reply. it only pulls through the most energy efficient products with the most potential to provide for household sector Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: carbon emissions reductions. The measures eligible for As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I each phase are subject to full public consultation. The have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking what volume carbon dioxide emissions has been recorded in the consultation on the April 2011 to December 2012 extension UK on an environmental accounts basis in each year since 1990 of the Carbon Emissions Reduction Target, concluding (320331). on 14 March 2010, does though specifically ask whether Estimates of air emissions, including carbon dioxide, are published Government should introduce up front sunset clauses annually by ONS as part of the Environmental Accounts. for products when they reach a certain level of market The ONS Environmental Accounts measure greenhouse gas penetration. emissions on a UK resident basis, in order to be comparable with National Accounts economic data. Therefore, they include emissions Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy generated by UK residents in the UK and emissions from UK residents’ transport and travel activities abroad. They exclude and Climate Change what recent research his emissions generated by non-residents’ transport and travel in Department has undertaken into the (a) cost- the UK. effectiveness of the Carbon Emissions Reduction As such, these data are on a different basis from estimates Target scheme and (b) effectiveness of the published by the Department for Energy and Climate Change administration of that scheme; and if he will make a under the UK’s Kyoto Protocol obligations. The Kyoto Protocol statement. [322484] 795W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 796W

Joan Ruddock: An independent assessment is Joan Ruddock: The Department of Energy and Climate commissioned at the end of each three year phase of the Change has commissioned only one design for its website Supplier Obligation (now termed the Carbon Emissions since inception. The design is that used by the Department’s Reduction Target), building on the cost-benefit assessment official corporate website: undertaken and published at the launch of each scheme. http://www.decc.gov.uk/ Independent analysis of the three year supplier obligation which was launched on 23 February 2009. The cost of scheme ending March 2008 showed it to have been the design work was £8,435.00. extremely cost effective in delivery—that for every £1 added onto GB household bills to pay for the obligation, Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy benefits equate to an average saving of £9 per household and Climate Change how many designs for its (a) bill over the lifetime of the measures. Equally, the internal website and (b) intranet his Department has present supplier obligation, the Carbon Emissions commissioned since its inception; and what the cost Reduction Target, is believed to be highly cost-effective, was of each such design. [321993] with expected annual benefits (net of costs) of around £649 million for the lifetime of the measures, with around £228 benefits per tonne of carbon dioxide saved Joan Ruddock: The Department does not have an internal website other than its intranet. in the traded sector and £153 benefits per tonne of CO2 saved in the non-traded sector. The Department has commissioned one design for its intranet since inception. The cost of the design was £2,185.00 Departmental Advertising Departmental Marketing Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what the cost was of each Mr. Syms: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy full-page advertisement taken out by his Department in and Climate Change pursuant to the answer to the hon. a national newspaper in (a) October and (b) Member for Ruislip Northwood of 5 January 2010, November 2009. [320336] Official Report, column 103W, on departmental marketing, how much his Department and agencies Joan Ruddock: We have not taken out full page have spent on advertising, marketing, public relations advertisements for the Act on CO2 campaign in October and publicity in relation to the (a) Real Help Now and and November 2009 except in newspaper supplements (b) Building Britain’s Future themed campaign to (mainly due to their format size). See the following date. [320457] table.

Act on CO2 campaign—Full page newspaper adverts (including supplements), Joan Ruddock: There has been no expenditure on October to November 2009—planned booking costs only advertising, marketing or public relations and publicity Gross cost per Number of on either the ’Real Help Now’ or the ’Building Britain’s Publication Size insertion (£) insertions Future’ campaign by the Department of Energy and Times Magazine Page Clr 6,000 2 Climate Change or its agencies. Sunday Times Page Clr 15,000 1 Magazine Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers Daily Telegraph Page Clr 7,500 2 Magazine Sunday Page Clr 3,800 2 Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State Telegraph Magazine for Energy and Climate Change how many full-time Guardian Page Clr 3,500 2 equivalent staff of each grade are employed by his Magazine Department to assist special advisers. [321134] Observer Page Clr 3,500 2 Magazine Joan Ruddock: One full-time equivalent executive Independent Page Clr 2,800 2 Magazine officer and one full-time equivalent administrative officer Independent on Page Clr 2,500 2 assist special advisers in my Department. Sunday— Magazine Departmental Travel Mail on Page Clr 15,000 1 Sunday—You Sunday Page Clr 4,500 1 Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State Express—S Magazine for Energy and Climate Change how much (a) Note: Ministers and (b) staff of each grade in his All rates subject to negotiation and availability at time of booking. Department spent on first class travel in the last 12 months. [320402]

Departmental Internet Joan Ruddock: During the financial year 2009-10 from 1 April 2009 to 31 January 2010 the Department Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy of Energy and Climate Change has spent £152,502.53 and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of on first class rail travel. No first class air travel was 1 March 2010, Official Report, column 903W, on undertaken during this period. A breakdown of data departmental internet, what the cost was of the website for Ministers and officials by grade can be provided redesign. [321931] only by incurring disproportionate costs. 797W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 798W

Energy: Billing Fossil fuel dependency in 2008 Percentage

Graham Stringer: To ask the Secretary of State for Russia1 89 Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made UK 90 of the effect on domestic fuel bills of the Renewable US 85 Heat Incentive in each of the next five years. [321462] 1 Data for Russia are for 2007 Mr. Kidney [holding answer 10 March 2010]: The Greater Manchester Government published a consultation on the Renewable Heat Incentive on 1 February which remains open until Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for 26 April and we invite stakeholders to respond with Energy and Climate Change if he will set out, with their views about the design of the incentive scheme. statistical information related as directly as possible to As set out in the consultation, Government are looking Manchester, Gorton constituency, the effects on that at options of how best to fund the Renewable Heat constituency of his Department’s policies since its Incentive and we will make a further announcement at inception. [322143] Budget 2010. Joan Ruddock: The Department of Energy and Climate Energy: Carbon Emissions Change has implemented a large number of policies to address energy security, emissions reductions, low carbon Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy economic growth and fuel poverty. Some of the key and Climate Change if he will bring forward proposals achievements are set out as follows, along with information to require energy suppliers to account for expenditure on the number of households assisted by the Warm on meeting their carbon emissions reduction targets by Front scheme in Manchester, Gorton constituency. It reporting savings achieved as tonnes of carbon saved would be disproportionately costly to provide statistical against expenditure in respect of each tariff; and if he information on all the impact of all the policies to the will make a statement. [322481] level of detail requested, but statistical information covering energy and climate change is available at: Joan Ruddock: The Government agree that improving http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/ the transparency of the costs falling to suppliers from statistics.aspx meeting their supplier obligation and how they pass Key achievements these costs onto consumers is critical. The Government’s The UK is on track to cut emissions by nearly twice ’Warm Homes, Greener Homes’ strategy published in our Kyoto target (22 per cent. below 1990 levels by early March set out the importance of greater transparency 2008-12 compared to the target of 12.5 per cent. set out in any post 2013 energy company obligation, including under the Kyoto agreement). around cost information. We continue to develop the detail of this arrangement, and will pursue new powers The Climate Change Act in 2008 set a target of at as necessary. least 80 per cent. reduction in greenhouse gases by 2050. Our first three carbon budgets legally bind the Fossil Fuels UK to a cut in greenhouse gases of 34 per cent. by 2018-22 against a 1990 baseline. In 2009, the UK’s Low Carbon Transition Plan set out the long-term vision for Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for climate change and energy and showing how we will Energy and Climate Change what estimate he made of meet the carbon budgets set out in the Climate Change the level of fossil fuel dependency in the latest year for Act. which figures are available; and what information he holds for benchmarking purposes on the level of fossil In 2009, my Department published National Policy fuel dependency of other G8 countries. [320315] Statements on energy infrastructure which will lead to faster and fairer planning decisions and a diverse low Mr. Kidney: Fossil fuel dependency is measured as carbon energy mix. An ambitious new framework for the proportion of total primary energy supply met by clean coal will also drive development of carbon capture coal, oil and gas. In 2008 the UK had a dependency rate and storage. of 91.5 per cent. The UK’s energy market is the most competitive in International comparisons for benchmarking purposes the EU and has attracted over £97 billion of investment are published as indicator E5.5 in DECC’s Energy from 1997 to 2008 (at 2005 prices). The UK also has the Sector Indicators. Data for G8 countries are shown in greatest installed capacity of offshore wind in the world. the following table, with data sourced from the IEA. In March 2010 the Government’s household energy Due to different adjustments being made by the IEA management strategy—Warm Homes, Greener Homes—set and the use of net calorific values, a slightly different out plans for meeting the target of a reduction of 29 per estimate is produced for the UK. cent. in (non-traded) carbon emissions in the household sector. The strategy will make it easier for people to take Fossil fuel dependency in 2008 action, removing the deterrent of upfront costs by, for Percentage example, paving the way for ’pay as you save’ energy Canada 75 efficiency loans. France 51 Government will be providing more financial assistance Germany 81 to help people generate their own heat and electricity in Italy 90 low carbon ways, where appropriate, through ’clean Japan 83 energy cashback’ schemes. 799W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 800W

Warm Front scheme: Manchester, Gorton constituency requested, but statistical information covering energy DECC’s Warm Front scheme provides grants for and climate change is available at households on qualifying income and disability-related http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/ benefits to install a range of insulation and heating statistics.aspx measures in their homes. The number of households Key achievements assisted in Manchester, Gorton from 6 April 2008 to 28 The UK is on track to cut emissions by nearly twice February 2010 was 914. our Kyoto target (22 per cent. below 1990 levels by 2008-12 compared to the target of 12.5 per cent. set out Marine Renewables Deployment Fund under the Kyoto agreement). The Climate Change Act in 2008 set a target of at Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for least 80 per cent. reduction in greenhouse gases by Energy and Climate Change how much has been 2050. Our first three carbon budgets legally bind the disbursed from the Marine Renewables Deployment UK to a cut in greenhouse gases of 34 per cent. by Fund to date. [320305] 2018-22 against a 1990 baseline. In 2009, the UK’s Low Carbon Transition Plan set out the long-term vision for Mr. Kidney: A total of £2,275,000 has been disbursed climate change and energy and showing how we will from the Marine Renewables Deployment Fund (MRDF) meet the carbon budgets set out in the Climate Change through infrastructure and research projects since its Act. inception in 2005. In 2009, my Department published National Policy Statements on energy infrastructure which will lead to Nuclear Power Stations: Construction faster and fairer planning decisions and a diverse low carbon energy mix. An ambitious new framework for Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for clean coal will also drive development of carbon capture Energy and Climate Change whether he has taken steps and storage. to establish a forum for non-governmental The UK’s energy market is the most competitive in organisations to consider issues arising from proposals the EU and has attracted over £97 billion of investment for the construction of new nuclear plants. [322477] from 1997 to 2008 (at 2005 prices). The UK also has the greatest installed capacity of offshore wind in the world. Mr. Kidney: Yes. It is planned that such a forum for non-governmental organisations will be established. The In March 2010 the Government’s household energy draft Terms of Reference of this forum will be subject management strategy—Warm Homes, Greener Homes—set to discussion, debate and. agreement at an inaugural out plans for meeting the target of a reduction of 29 per meeting, which it is intended to hold this spring. cent. in (non-traded) carbon emissions in the household sector. The strategy will make it easier for people to take Office of Gas and Electricity Markets: Manpower action, removing the deterrent of upfront costs by, for example, paving the way for ’pay as you save’ energy efficiency loans. Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how many officials (a) his Government will be providing more financial assistance Department and (b) the Office of Gas and Electricity to help people generate their own heat and electricity in Markets employed on the latest date for which figures low carbon ways, where appropriate, through ’clean are available. [320324] energy cashback’ schemes. Warm Front scheme: Stroud constituency Joan Ruddock: The latest date for which figures are DECC’s Warm Front scheme provides grants for available is 28 February 2010. At this date, DECC households on qualifying income and disability related employed 1,103 officials (i.e. staff employed directly by benefits to install a range of insulation and heating DECC either permanently or temporarily). The Office measures in their homes. The number of households of Gas and Electricity Markets employed 367 officials. assisted in Stroud from April 2008 to 28 February 2010 Figures are provided on a full-time equivalent basis. was 626. Stroud Wind Power: Planning Permission

Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Lembit Öpik: To ask the Secretary of State for and Climate Change if he will set out, with statistical Energy and Climate Change what proportion of the fee information related as directly as possible to Stroud accompanying an application for a wind turbine constituency, the effects on that constituency of his development is provided to the local authority Department’s policies and actions since 2008. [321482] responsible for initial assessment of the application; and if he will make a statement. [322440] Joan Ruddock: The Department of Energy and Climate Change has implemented a large number of policies to Mr. Kidney: Wind farms generating 50MW or more address energy security, emissions reductions, low carbon were considered by DECC under the Electricity Act 1989 economic growth and fuel poverty. Some of the key up to 28 February 2010. As of 1 March 2010 applications achievements are set out below, along with information for wind turbines generating 50MW or more are to be on the number of households assisted by the Warm considered by the Infrastructure Planning Commission Front scheme in Stroud constituency. It would be under the Planning Act 2008. In both instances none of disproportionately costly to provide statistical information the application fee was or is made available to the on all the impact of all the policies to the level of detail relevant local planning authority. 801W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 802W

Planning implication fees for wind turbine generating There are however exceptions for enforcement cases when stations generating less than 50MW in England and interest can be charged following registration of a liability with Wales are considered through the Town and Country the County Court. Interest in these circumstances is not calculated Planning Act 1990 and the planning application fee under Child Support legislation, but under general rules applying to court orders. In practice, this is only applied in cases involving goes to the relevant local planning authority that receives applications for an Order for Sale, where the CSA may apply to the application. the court for any interest accruing between the date a liability order was registered with the County Court and the application for an Order for Sale. LEADER OF THE HOUSE As of 31 December 2009 the CSA was dealing with 1,213,100 live and assessed cases. Only Order for Sale cases with a secured Departmental Internet debt balance in excess of £5000 have interest collected on them. As at 31 December 2009 the CSA had referred 342 Order for Sale actions, which represents less than 0.3% of the live and assessed Mr. Heald: To ask the Leader of the House how caseload. many designs for its (a) internal website and (b) I hope you find this answer helpful. intranet her Office has commissioned since 2005; and what the cost was of each such design. [321983] Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many absent parents in (a) Scotland Barbara Keeley: The Office of the Leader of the and (b) Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituency are being House of Commons does not maintain its own internal dealt with by the Child Support Agency. [320797] website or intranet. The Office is part of the Cabinet Office and staff therefore have access to the Cabinet Helen Goodman: The Child Maintenance and Office intranet service. Enforcement Commission is responsible for the child maintenance system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Members: Pensions Commissioner to write to the hon. Member with the information requested and I have seen the response. Martin Horwood: To ask the Leader of the House Letter from Stephen Geraghty: how many and what proportion of its shares the Parliamentary Contributory Pension Fund held in (a) In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the British Petroleum and (b) Royal Dutch Shell on the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance latest date for which figures are available; and what the Commissioner. monetary value was of those shares on that date. You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how [322503] many absent parents in (a) Scotland and (b) Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituency are being dealt with by the Child Support Agency. Barbara Keeley: The investment of the assets of the Latest figures show as at December 2009, the number of cases Parliamentary Contributory Pension Fund is a matter in Scotland is 111,050; of these 320 are in the Parliamentary for the Fund’s Trustees. The Chairman of Trustees will Constituency of Na h-Eileanan an Iar. These figures include old be writing to the hon. Member separately. scheme cases with a full or interim maintenance assessment as well as current scheme cases with a full maintenance calculation or default maintenance decision. Figures are adjusted to reflect those cases administered clerically. WORK AND PENSIONS I hope you find this answer helpful. Children: Maintenance Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many times the Child Support Christine Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Agency (CSA) has imposed a sanction of (a) Work and Pensions in what (a) circumstances and (b) deduction of earnings orders, (b) deduction from bank proportion of cases interest is applied to arrears owed accounts, (c) seizure and sale of goods by bailiffs, (d) by non-resident parents in cases managed by the Child registering a charging order against assets, (e) Support Agency. [320377] obtaining a third party order to freeze assets in the Helen Goodman: The Child Maintenance and bank accounts to which non-resident parties are Enforcement Commission is responsible for the child entitled, (f) disqualifying the non-resident parent from maintenance system. I have asked the Child Maintenance driving, (g) gaining a warrant committing the non- Commissioner to write to the hon. Member with the resident parent to prison, (h) applying to a information requested and I have seen the response. magistrates’ court to impose a curfew for non-resident parents, (i) applying to the courts to search the Letter from Stephen Geraghty: non-resident parents against whom a curfew order has In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the been made, (j) applying to the court to prevent a Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive non-resident parent disposing of a property and (k) reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child making administrative orders disqualifying non- Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission. resident parents from holding a driving licence or travel authorisation such as passports or both without the You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions in what (a) circumstances and (b) proportion of cases interest is need to apply to the courts; and on what date the CSA applied to arrears owed by non-resident parents in cases managed gained the power to impose each type of sanction. by the Child Support Agency. [320377] [320870] The CSA does not apply interest charges to maintenance arrears and has not done so since April 1995. Section 43 of the Helen Goodman [holding answer 8 March 2010]: The Child Maintenance and Other Payments Act 2008 extinguished Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is liability for any interest outstanding from periods prior to April 1995. responsible for the child maintenance system. I have 803W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 804W asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner to write to Further information relating to the Agency’s use of enforcement my right hon. Friend with the information requested powers is published in the Child Support Agency Quarterly and I have seen the response. Summary of Statistics (QSS). The latest copy of which is available in the House of Commons library, or via the internet at: Letter from Stephen Geraghty: http://www.childmaintenance.org/en/publications/ In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the statistics.html Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary I hope you find this answer helpful. of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner. Departmental Theft You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how many times the Child Support Agency (CSA) has imposed a Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work sanction of (a) deduction of earnings orders, (b) deduction from and Pensions how many thefts from her Department bank account, (c) seizure and sale of goods by bailiffs, (d) have been recorded in the last two years. [318989] registering a charging order against assets, (e) obtaining a third party order to freeze assets in the bank accounts to which Jonathan Shaw: In accordance with guidance from non-resident parties are entitled, (f) disqualifying the non-resident HM Treasury, the Department maintains records of parent from driving, (g) gaining a warrant committing the non-resident parent to prison, (h) applying to a magistrates’ court to impose a certain high-value property that it owns, such as specialist curfew for non-resident parents, (i) applying to the courts to equipment and plant and machinery. In the past two search the non-resident parents against whom a curfew order has years, no items recorded on the register have been been made, (j) applying to the court to prevent a non-resident reported as stolen. parent disposing of a property and (k) making administrative orders disqualifying non-resident parents from holding a driving Employment Schemes licence or travel authorisation such as passports or both without the need to apply to the courts; and on what date the CSA gained Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work the power to impose each type of sanction. [320870] and Pensions with reference to page 97 of the There have been 65,535 new deduction of earning orders/requests pre-Budget report 2009, what temporary employment set up in England, Wales and Scotland in the 12 months to programmes will be phased out by 2012-13; and what October 2009. Deductions of earning orders were a feature of the estimate she has made of the likely savings to her original Child Support Act 1991 and have been available to the Department in (a) 2012-13 and (b) each of the CSA since its establishment in 1993. following three years. [313271] In the period between August 2009 and October 2009, there have been 125 cases where a deduction order from a bank account Helen Goodman: As set out in “Building Britain’s has been sanctioned. Sanctioned has been interpreted as the Recovery, Achieving Full Employment”, in the projections application to freeze funds in the bank account of a non-resident parent. This power came into force in August 2009. of the public finances, the Government uses an National Audit Office audited assumption for claimant In England and Wales, there have been 17,730 distress actions unemployment. If unemployment was to follow the (bailiff actions) in the 12 months to October 2009. In Scotland, in latest assumption at the time of the pre-Budget report, the 12 months to October 2009 there were 255 attachments. These this would imply savings of approximately £10 billion powers were a feature of the original Child Support Act 1991 and have been available to the CSA since its establishment in 1993. over the next five years from lower benefit spending alone, compared to the assumption at the time of the In the 12 months to October 2009, there have been 2,995 Budget. charging orders in England and Wales. In Scotland, in the 12 months to October 2009 there were 1,395 Bills of Inhibition. We will continue to review the support that is available Charging Orders were a feature of the original Child Support Act for jobseekers, and decisions on the Department’s future 1991 and have been available to the CSA since its establishment in expenditure limits and spending allocations will be taken 1993. at the spending review. There have been 2,025 third party debt orders to freeze assets Jobseeker’s Allowance in England and Wales in the 12 months to October 2009. In Scotland, in the 12 months to October 2009 there were 785 arrestments. Third Party Debt Orders were a feature of the Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for original Child Support Act 1991 and have been available to the Work and Pensions how many people had their claims CSA since its establishment in 1993. for jobseeker’s allowance processed in (a) five or fewer When the CSA commences court proceedings for wilful failure days, (b) between six and 10 days; (c) between 11 and and culpable neglect to pay child maintenance the court decides 16 days, (d) between 17 and 21 days and (e) more than what sentence shall be imposed. Of such proceedings started 21 days in (i) December 2009 and (ii) January 2010. across England, Wales and Scotland, 820 resulted in suspended [316962] committal sentences and 40 committal sentences. This power was a feature of the original Child Support Act 1991 and has been Jim Knight [holding answer 22 February 2010]: The available to the CSA since its establishment in 1993. There were administration of Jobcentre Plus is a matter for the also 70 suspended driving licence disqualification sentences and 5 actual driving licence disqualification sentences in the 12 months Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus, Darra Singh. I have to October 2009. This power was introduced by the Child Support, asked him to provide the hon. Member with the information Pensions and Social Security Act 2000; and was brought into requested. effect in April 2001. Letter from Darra Singh: Powers to apply to a Court to impose a curfew on a non Jobcentre Plus measures performance on the processing of resident parent, search a non-resident parent against whom a Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) claims through the Average Actual curfew order has been made, prevent a non resident parent Clearance Time (AACT) target. The current target for 2009-10 is disposing of property or using administrative orders for driving 11.5 days. This time is calculated across an average of all the licence disqualification or travel authorisation have not yet come claims cleared in any given month looking at the date the customer into effect. first contacted Jobcentre Plus or the customers first day of 805W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 806W unemployment, whichever is the later. The end date is the date a Pensions formal decision is made on the claim and a notification is issued to the customer on entitlement. Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work In addition to collecting AACT data our benefit processing and Pensions what her most recent estimate is of the system also gathers useful management information on the volumes number of people who have not made sufficient savings of claims processed within the time bands you have requested. for their retirement; and what such estimates her The following table outlines the number of JSA claims processed Department has made in the last three years. [321496] in December 2009 and January 2010 in both number and percentage terms. The final JSA AACT in month performance for December Angela Eagle [holding answer 10 March 2010]: The was 9.0 days and for January was 9.1 days. Current Year to date performance for the 2009-10 performance year is 9.8 days. Department for Work and Pensions estimates that, based on Pension Commission benchmark replacement Month December 2009 January 2010 rates, about seven million people are not saving sufficiently for their retirement. It is precisely to address this issue JSA Processed in 99,342 113,890 that the Government have legislated to establish NEST 5days and introduce automatic enrolment into a workplace JSA Processed in 184,131 223,551 10 days pension with a guaranteed contribution from the employer JSA Processed in 225,299 276,843 and the Government from 2012 16 days This estimate was published in the May 2006 White JSA Processed in 239,639 293,821 Paper, ‘Security in Retirement: Towards a New Pension 21 days System’. No further updates of this figure have been JSA Processed in 17,275 20,068 22+ days made in the last three years by DWP. 1-5 days 38.70% 36.30% Social Security Advisory Committee 6-10 days 33.00% 34.90% 11-16 days 16.00% 17.00% Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 17-21 days 5.60% 5.40% and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 8 March 2010, 22+ days 6.70% 6.40% Official Report, column 78W, on Social Security Source: Management and Information System Programme (MISP) 11.02.10 Advisory Committee: finance, how much the Social Please note that the figures provided in the table indicate Security Advisory Committee spent (a) in total, (b) cumulative figures not stand alone figures for those time bands. on staffing costs and (c) on running costs in (i) For instance, those cleared within 10 days include the claims that 2005-06, (ii) 2006-07, (iii) 2007-08, and (iv) 2008-09; were also cleared within 5 days. The only stand alone figures are and how much expenditure she expects that Committee those cases cleared within the 22+ days timeband. to incur on each type of cost in 2009-10. [322054] I hope this information is helpful. Jim Knight: The information is in the following table: Lighthouse Project: Finance

£ Mr. Maude: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-101 and Pensions how much funding her Department has provided to the Lighthouse project in each year since it Total 331,700 396,900 390,700 457,900 456,200 was set up. [320715] spend Staffing 232,600 311,600 278,900 257,500 289,600 Jonathan Shaw: The Lighthouse project was a charitable costs organization located in Halesowen and Wednesbury in Non- 99,100 85,300 111,800 200,400 166,600 staffing the West Midlands offering drop-in advice and a wide costs range of support services to the local community.Jobcentre 1 Estimate. Plus has not been involved in any of their funding. Notes: 1. All figures rounded to the nearest £100. Their local authority funding was withdrawn and the 2. The SSAC is the UK advisory body on social security and related matters, Lighthouse project closed late in 2009. such as links with the labour market and wider social welfare issues. It performs a mandatory scrutiny of most proposals for making the regulations on those Nuclear Submarines: Safety issues. Thus, much of the Department for Work and Pensions’ policy and legislative proposals—including the progressing of the welfare reform agenda—comes before the Committee. Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 3. The significant increase in non-staffing costs in 2008-09 mainly reflects the and Pensions on what date her Department received Committee’s decision, in the light of rising workloads, to deploy Members and external researchers more intensively to augment the work carried out by the the request from the Health and Safety Executive to SSAC Secretariat in that year. It also reflects the Committee’s costs in undertaking review the radius of the emergency pre-planning zone a public appointment exercise in 2008-09; no such exercise took place in the around a berthed nuclear submarine. [321373] previous year. Social Security Benefits: Fraud Mr. Kidney: I have been asked to reply. The Health and Safety Executive is responsible for Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work determining the radius of a Detailed Emergency Planning and Pensions how much and what proportion of Zone (DEPZ) around a berthed nuclear-powered known fraud debt stock was fraud debt her submarine. The decision to reduce the DEPZ from 2 km Department recovered in each of the last five years; to 1.5 km was based on a hazard assessment for such and if she will make a statement. [316098] submarines that the Ministry of Defence submitted to the HSE in February 2008. The HSE completed a Helen Goodman: The following table provides data review of the assessment and informed the Ministry of on the value of Fraud classified benefit debt recoveries Defence of the outcome of that review in December and the proportion of those recoveries against the Fraud 2008. debt stock. The information is only available from 2005-06. 807W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 808W

Number of sanctions applied (adverse decision), by number of individuals Fraud classified debt Proportion of recoveries against (thousands) April 2000 to October 2009 recoveries (£ million) Fraud Debt Stock (percentage) Number of individuals1 2005-06 16.7 6.1 Varied length 714.14 2006-07 21.9 7.6 Fixed length 203.67 2007-08 24.7 6.7 Entitlement decision 1072.09 2008-09 23.9 6.0 1 Individuals and decisions based figures are rounded to the nearest ten and Source: displayed in thousands. Some additional disclosure control has been applied. Shared Services Debt Manager via Business Objects computer system. This is Notes: based on available Management Information, and does not form Official 1. This information is published at the Department for Work and Pensions Statistics. website: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/asd/tabtool.asp Recoveries are now at an all time high. Since 2005-06, 2. Data prior to April 2000 is not available. the Department has increased overall recoveries from Source: £180 million per year to over £280 million. DWP Information Directorate: JSA Sanctions and Disallowance Decisions Statistics The NAO recognised our improved performance in Database. its report ‘Department for Work and Pensions, Management of Benefit Overpayment Debt’, May 2009. This amounts to an average of 96,000 sanctions and 112,000 adverse entitlement decisions per year, respectively As a result of the Department’s Debt Management’s 10 per cent. and 12 per cent. of the average JSA caseload. strategy a greater proportion of outstanding fraud debts are being actively managed each year. Currently, for 90 per cent. of customers with fraud debts, repayment is either being made, being negotiated, or suspended due CABINET OFFICE to inability to repay, e.g. in prison. We always pursue repayment. For income related Business benefits overpayment recovery is subject, by legislation, to a maximum rate of recovery. For other benefits the Mr. Amess: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet maximum deduction rate is set administratively at one Office how many small businesses there were in (a) third of the personal rate of the benefit or pension England, (b) Eastern England and (c) Southend West concerned. We will continue to recover this money over constituency in each year since 1997. [321899] the coming years. Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work I have asked the Authority to reply. and Pensions what her latest estimate is of the monetary value of benefit fraud committed by people Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: living outside the UK; and if she will make a statement. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question [316398] asking how many small businesses there were in a) England, b) Helen Goodman [holding answer 8 March 2010]: The Eastern England and c) Southend West constituency in each year since 1997 (321899). amount wrongly paid to customers who are normally Annual statistics on business births, deaths and survival are resident in United Kingdom but claimed benefits while available for 2002 onwards from the ONS release on Business abroad for longer than the rules allow is available in Demography at: table 6.1 in the National Statistics report “Fraud and www.statistics.gov.uk Error in the Benefits System: April 2008 to March Information on the number of active enterprises by parliamentary 2009” a copy of which is available in the Library. The constituency is only available from 2004 onwards. The table below report can also be accessed online at: contains the latest statistics available on active enterprises with http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/ less than 50 employment for England, East of England and fem_apr08_mar09.pdf Southend West. To help us reduce this type of fraud we are increasing Active enterprises with less than 50 employment 2002-08 the number of countries with which we have arrangements England East of England Southend West for closer working and data sharing. 2002 1,804,635 210,510 n/a We are also reminding people in the latest Targeting 2003 1,833,435 213,670 n/a Fraud campaign and in leaflets of their responsibility to 2004 1,854,375 216,995 3,005 tell us if they are going abroad. 2005 1,871,830 219,080 3,030 Unemployment Benefits 2006 1,891,240 221,605 3,090 2007 1,953,335 228,505 3,120 Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2008 1,990,465 232,590 3,155 and Pensions how many people claiming (a) n/a = Not available. jobseeker’s allowance, (b) income support, (c) Civil Servants: Redundancy Pay incapacity benefit and (d) employment and support allowance have been sanctioned, broken down by the Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet number of such sanctions received. [313161] Office what consideration she gave to the introduction of changes to the Civil Service Compensation scheme Angela Eagle: Data on the number of people claiming to apply to new entrants to the civil service. [322437] income support, incapacity benefit, and employment and support allowance who have been sanctioned is not Tessa Jowell: My statement of 3 February 2010, available. The data that is available for jobseeker’s allowance Official Report, columns 11-13WS announced changes can be found in the following table. to the Civil Service Compensation scheme and the 809W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 810W process which led up to those changes. Some respondents As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I to the consultation exercise suggested that the changes have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question should only apply to new entrants. However, the package concerning how many full-time equivalent civil servants have agreed with five of the six main civil service unions been employed in (a) City of York and (b) Yorkshire and the Humber in each year since 1997. (321692). applies to all staff, with existing staff covered by transitional provisions. In order to provide the information requested for York, ad hoc analysis has been required. This analysis is based on the Mandate Civil Servants: Yorkshire and the Humber collection (1997-2006) which provides approximately 90 per cent coverage of Civil Service departments and agencies and the Annual Civil Service Employment Survey (2007-2009) which Hugh Bayley: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet provides 100 per cent coverage. For years prior to 2003 coverage is Office how many full-time equivalent civil servants lower. have been employed in (a) City of York and (b) Yorkshire and the Humber in each year since 1997. The data provided for Yorkshire and the Humber is based on the Mandate collection alongside departmental returns (1997-2005) [321692] and the Annual Civil Service Employment Survey (2007-2009) both of which provide 100 per cent coverage of Civil Service Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls departments and agencies. Data for 2006 is based on the Mandate within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. collection only and provides approximately 90 per cent coverage. I have asked the Authority to reply. The requested data for York and Yorkshire and the Humber Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated 16 March 2010: are attached at Annex A.

Annex A: Civil service employment in York and Yorkshire and the Humber1 permanent employees Full-time equivalent 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009

Yo rk 2 1,560 1,460 1,490 1,630 1,760 2140 2420 2,760 2850 2,750 2,850 2,860 2,970 Yorkshire 32,270 32,010 32,030 33,060 33,890 35,050 35,570 39,140 38,670 34,500 36,330 36,370 36,580 and the Humber3 1 Numbers are rounded to the nearest 10, and numbers less than five are represented by” —“. 2 1997-2006 Mandate only—incomplete coverage of civil service departments. 2007-09 Annual Civil Service Employment survey. 3 1997-2005 Mandate and departmental returns. 2006 Mandate only—incomplete coverage of civil service departments. 2007-09 Annual Civil Service Employment Survey. Source: Mandate collection (1997-2006) Annual Civil Service Employment Survey (2007-09)

Deaths: Cancer Deaths: Ovarian Cancer Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Minister for the Christopher Fraser: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office how many women died of ovarian Cabinet Office pursuant to the answer of 22 February cancer in East Lancashire in each year since 2005. 2010, Official Report, column 159W, on death: cancer, [322222] for what reasons age-standardised mortality rates for 2008 are (a) unavailable by parliamentary constituency Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls and (b) available for primary care trusts; when she within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. expects the 2008 data for each parliamentary I have asked the Authority to reply. constituency to be made available; and if she will make Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: a statement. [322228] As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent question asking how many Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls women died of ovarian cancer in East Lancashire in each year within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. since 2005. (322222) I have asked the Authority to reply. The table attached provides the number of deaths where ovarian cancer was the underlying cause of death, for women in East Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated 16 March 2010: Lancashire Teaching primary care trust from 2005 to 2008 (latest As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I year available). have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question Table 1: Number of deaths where ovarian cancer1 was the underlying asking pursuant to the Answer of 22 February 2010, Official cause of death in females, East Lancashire Teaching primary care Report , column 159W, on death: cancer, for what reasons age- trust2, 2005-083 standardised mortality rates for 2008 are (a) unavailable by parliamentary constituency and (b) available for primary care Deaths trusts; when she expects the 2008 data broken down by parliamentary 2005 21 constituency to be made available. (322228) 2006 28 Calculation of mortality rates requires both the number of 2007 20 deaths and an estimate of the population for the same area and time period. Mortality rates for (a) parliamentary constituencies 2008 26 could not be calculated for 2008 as mid-year population estimates 1 Cause of death for ovarian cancer was defined using International for parliamentary constituencies in 2008 were not yet available. Statistical Classification of Diseases Tenth Revision (ICD 10) code C56. The equivalent rates for (b) primary care organisations could be 2 calculated as ONS published mid-year population estimates for Based on boundaries as of February 2010. Renamed East Lancashire Teaching PCT on 1 May 2007 (formerly known as East Lancashire primary care organisations in October 2009. The 2008 mid-year PCT). population estimates for parliamentary constituencies are due to 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. be published in July/August 2010. 811W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 812W

Employment existing work to take forward the Government’s plan for reducing the impact on and vulnerability of the Mrs. May: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office UK’s interests from cyber attacks. what estimate she made of the number of people in The Centre for the Protection of National Infrastructure employment who were (a) UK born, (b) non-UK (CPNI) provides advice on electronic or cyber protective born, (c) a UK national and (d) a non-UK national in security measures to the businesses and organisations (i) 1997 and (ii) the latest year for which figures are that comprise the UK’s critical national infrastructure, available; what the change in the level of employment including public utilities, companies and banks. CPNI was between those years; and for what proportion of also runs a CERT (Computer Emergency Response the net change in employment each of those groups Team) service which responds to reported attacks on accounted between those years. [322169] private sector networks. In addition, the Communications Electronic Security Group (CESG) provides Government Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls Departments with advice and guidance on how to protect within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. against, detect and mitigate various types of cyber I have asked the authority to reply. attack. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: It would not be in the interests of national security to As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I publish information about specific vulnerabilities, have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question assessments or protective measures relating to concerning the number of people in employment who were (a) electromagnetic pulse attack. UK born, (b) non-UK born, (c) a UK national and (d) a non-UK national in (i) 1997 and (ii) the latest year for which figures are Mr. Jenkin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet available; what the change in the level of employment was between Office for what reasons the threat of an those years; and for what proportion of the net change in employment each of those groups accounted between those years. (322169) electromagnetic pulse strike caused (a) deliberately and (b) through solar activity was not included in the The requested information can be found in the following tables. The UK and non-UK estimates do not sum exactly to the Government’s Cyber Security Strategy. [321764] totals, as the totals include some people who did not state their country of birth and nationality. Mr. Hanson: I have been asked to reply. Number of people in employment by country of birth (thousand, not seasonally The threat to the UK’s cyber security from the effects adjusted) of an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) is specifically highlighted Difference Proportion of net in the fourth bullet of paragraph 2.8 on page 14 of the between change in total 1997 and employment Cyber Security Strategy of the United Kingdom published 1997 2009 2009 (percentage) in June 2009, referred to by its alternative (non-nuclear) title of High Power Radio Frequency (HPRF) transmission. UK 24,547 25,236 689 28 The Cyber Security Strategy did not sub-classify the Non-UK 1,975 3,735 1,760 72 origin of HPRF threats into solar or deliberate. Total 26,523 28,978 2,455 100 Lord Ashcroft Number of people in employment by nationality (thousand, not seasonally adjusted) Mr. Drew: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Difference Proportion of net (1) if she will make available to the Public between change in total 1997 and employment Administration Select Committee all papers and other 1997 2009 2009 (percentage) documents relating to the undertaking given by Lord Ashcroft prior to his inclusion in the list of UK 25,551 26,673 1,122 46 recommendations for a peerage; [322318] Non-UK 971 2,300 1,329 54 Total 26,523 28,978 2,455 100 (2) what investigations her Department is conducting into the undertakings given by Lord Ashcroft prior to As with any sample survey, estimates from the Labour Force his inclusion in the list of recommendations for a Survey (LFS) are subject to a margin of uncertainty. Indications [322319] of the sampling variability of LFS aggregate estimates are provided peerage. in the Labour Market Statistical Bulletin. Angela E. Smith: I refer the hon. Member to the Government Departments: Electronic Warfare answer given to the right hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Alun Michael) the hon. Member for High Peak (Tom Levitt) and the right hon. Member Mr. Jenkin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet for Oldham, West and Royton (Mr. Meacher) on 12 March Office what assessment she has made of the threat to 2010, Official Report, column 483W. the Government’s critical infrastructure of an electromagnetic pulse strike caused (a) deliberately Personal Income: York and (b) through solar activity. [321761] Hugh Bayley: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Angela E. Smith: The Government’s Cyber Security Office what the average household disposable income Strategy of the United Kingdom, published alongside wasinYorkin(a) cash and (b) real terms in (i) and reflected in the National Security Strategy update 1996-97 and (ii) the latest 12 months for which figures of June 2009, considers a number of methods of cyber are available. [322110] attack, including those that generate high levels of radio frequency power that can damage or disrupt Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls unprotected electronics. It also outlines the new governance within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. structures and workstreams which are now building on I have asked the Authority to reply. 813W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 814W

Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: As with any sample survey, estimates from the LFS are subject to a margin of uncertainty. Indications of the sampling variability As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I of LFS aggregate estimates are provided in the Statistical Bulletin. have been asked to reply to your recent question asking what the average household disposable income was in York in (a) cash and Economically inactive, long-term sick or disabled people of working age1 who (b) real terms in (i) 1996-97 and (ii) the latest 12 months for want a job2, United Kingdom, seasonally adjusted which figures are available. (322110). Total (thousand)

Table 1 shows the average net weekly equivalised household October to December quarter: income for the City of York Parliamentary constituency area, both before and after housing costs, for the years 2007-08, the 2000 744 latest available, and 2001-02, the earliest period for which data are 2001 753 available, in current and 2007-08 prices. These figures are based 2002 752 on experimental small area statistics published by the ONS. 2003 670 These estimates, as with any involving sample surveys, are 2004 634 subject to a margin of uncertainty. 2005 615 Table 1: Average net weekly equivalised household income in the City of York 2006 611 parliamentary constituency area, 2001-02 and 2007-08 1, 2 2007 618 £ (a) In current Mean income (before Mean income (after housing Latest eight quarters: prices4 housing costs)3 costs)3 2008 2001-02 360 330 January to March 664 2007-08 470 380 April to June 658 July to September 653 (b) In 2007-08 October to December 628 prices 2001-02 410 370 2009 2007-08 470 380 1 Incomes are presented net of income tax payments, National Insurance January to March 599 contributions and Council tax April to June 618 2 Figures rounded to the nearest £10 July to September 659 3 Housing costs include rent (gross of housing benefit), water charges, mortgage interest payments, structural insurance, ground rent and service charges. October to December 676 4 Current prices are the prices as they were at the time of the survey. For 1 Men aged 16 to 64 and women aged 16 to 59. example, data for 2001-02 are in 2001-02 prices and data for 2007-08 are in 2 Those who had not been looking for work in the four weeks prior to 2007-08 prices interview but who said they would like a regular paid job, plus those who had Source: been looking for work but had been unable to start within two weeks. Office for National Statistics Source: ONS Labour Force Survey

Unemployment Unemployment Benefits

Mr. Clappison: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mrs. May: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Office pursuant to the answer of 1 March 2010, for what reason the time series data produced by the Official Report, columns 995-6W, on unemployment, Office for National Statistics on the number of 18 to how many economically inactive people of working age 24 year olds claiming jobseeker’s allowance before who were long-term sick or disabled wanted April 1997 is unavailable; what data are available on the employment in (a) each of the last 10 years and (b) number of young people who claimed unemployment each of the last eight quarters. [321641] benefits before that date; and by what mechanisms data on numbers of unemployment benefit claimants before Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls and after April 1997 may be compared. [322105] within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the Authority to reply. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated 16 March 2010: how many economically inactive people of working age who were As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I long-term sick or disabled wanted employment in (a) each of the have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking last 10 years and (b) each of the last eight quarters. (321641) for what reason the time series data produced by the Office for Estimates of economic inactivity are available from the Labour National Statistics on the number of 18 to 24 year olds claiming Force Survey (LFS). In accordance with the International Labour jobseeker’s allowance before April 1997 is unavailable; what data Organization (ILO) definition, people are classed as economically are available on the number of young people who claimed inactive if they are neither in employment nor unemployed. The unemployment benefits before that date; and by what mechanisms estimates provided comprise those who have not been looking for data on numbers of unemployment benefit claimants before and work in the last four weeks, but who say they would like a regular after April 1997 may be compared. (322105) paid job, plus those who have been looking for work but who were In October 1996 Unemployment Benefit and unemployment-related unable to start within two weeks. Income Support were merged into a single Jobseeker’s Allowance. These estimates are published in the Labour Market Statistical This introduced discontinuities into the Claimant Count series. Bulletin Historical Supplement which is available on the National Adjustments for discontinuities to the series were estimated by sex Statistics website via the following link: and by region, however, these adjustments were not further broken down to cover age and duration breakdowns. Consequently http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_labour/ age and duration series prior to April 1997 are not consistent with LMS_FR_HS/WebTable13.xls series after that date. 815W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 816W

Two of the main factors influencing the decision to not make Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for adjustments for age and duration were the high proportion of Communities and Local Government whether the claims for which there was no age and duration information Homes and Communities Agency grant for Rent to available, around 10% of all claims in the early 1990’s and the HomeBuy properties is paid (a) at the start or (b) on unavailability of similar breakdowns of Northern Ireland data prior to January 1996, due to the use of separate administrative an ongoing basis during an intermediate rent tenancy. systems. [321565] Information on the number of 18 to 24 year olds claiming unemployment benefits is available prior to 1997, stretching back John Healey: Capital grant is provided through the to 1985. However, this information only covers geographic areas National Affordable Housing Programme, for the provision within Great Britain, is subject to discontinuities mentioned of a property. Grant is paid for new build schemes in above, does not include clerical claims and is not available on a two tranches, with part of the grant paid at start on site seasonally adjusted basis. and the remainder on completion of the scheme. Where As a result of the adjustments mentioned above, seasonally a property is bought by or transferred to an Investment adjusted Claimant Count series, by sex and by region, prior to Partner as an existing unit 100 per cent. of the grant is April 1997 can be considered comparable with those after that date. However, detailed breakdowns, including those for age paid on completion. There is no further grant paid after groups should only be compared in the context of the discontinuities the development is complete. arising from changes in administrative and benefits systems. The Rent to HomeBuy scheme may be either a new National and local area estimates for many labour market build scheme or acquisition of an existing property. statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant count are available on the NOMIS website at: Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.nomisweb.co.uk Communities and Local Government pursuant to the answer of 2 March 2010, Official Report, columns 1127-28W, on affordable housing: finance, what COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT estimate he has made of the percentage of the funding allocated to Rent to HomeBuy for 2010-11 which will Affordable Housing be used for (a) existing tenants’ rent subsidies and (b) new completions. [321581] Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what liabilities John Healey: The Homes and Communities Agency the Homes and Communities Agency has in relation to through their National Affordable Housing Programme rent subsidy for tenants signed up to the Rent to funds the provision of new affordable housing units HomeBuy scheme for the financial year (a) 2010-11 under the Rent to HomeBuy scheme. All funding in and (b) 2011-12. [321561] 2010-11 will be used to provide new affordable housing either through new build or acquisition. No funding John Healey: The Homes and Communities Agency through the National Affordable Housing Programme provide capital grant to support the development or will be used for existing tenants’ rent subsidies. acquisition of properties. The grant is paid at start on site and on completion of a scheme. No further financial Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State liabilities exist. for Communities and Local Government what recent steps the Government has taken to increase the Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for provision of family-sized affordable homes. [321606] Communities and Local Government (1) how many Rent to HomeBuy tenants are expected to purchase a Mr. Ian Austin: The Homes and Communities Agency share in their home in (a) 2010-11 and (b) 2011-12; (HCA) is aiming to create cohesive and sustainable and what estimate has been made of the costs of the communities including the provision of larger family scheme in each of those years; [321563] sized homes. As part of the HCA’s Corporate Plan we (2) pursuant to the answer of 2 March 2010, Official have also set them a target that 30 per cent. of their Report, columns 1127-28W, on affordable housing: social rented homes completions through the National finance, whether the allocations to the Rent to Affordable Housing Programme in 2009-10 should be HomeBuy scheme assume that 100 per cent. of tenants for homes with three or more bedrooms. This target is will purchase a share in their home. [321582] set to increase to 33 per cent. in 2010-11.

John Healey: The Rent to HomeBuy product is designed Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State to assist people into homeownership and it is expected for Communities and Local Government how many that tenants will purchase a share of their property affordable family-sized homes have been built in each during or at the end of the agreed intermediate period. year since 1997. [321607] It is recognised that some tenants’ personal circumstances may mean that moving into shared ownership is not Mr. Ian Austin: The number of affordable homes suitable for them at that time. built in each year since 1997 are available on the CLG The Homes and Communities Agency does not make website in Live Table 1009. Statistics are not held centrally assumptions about future purchases when making that identify which of these are ‘family-sized’ or occupied allocation decisions for this product. by families. The HCA, based on information as at the end of Information in respect of the distribution of affordable February 2010, is currently forecasting expenditure on homes provided through the Homes and Communities approved Rent to HomeBuy schemes in 2010-11 and Agency’s Affordable Housing Programme by the number 2011-12 of £52 million and £27 million respectively. of bedrooms has been deposited in the Library of the 817W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 818W

House in response to the question I answered from the properties there are in each council tax band in the city hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps) on of Newcastle upon Tyne; and how many in each such 15 March 2010, Official Report, column 667W. band are (a) empty and (b) in each exemption class. [321042] Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what steps his Barbara Follett: Details of the number of dwellings Department plans to take to assist local authorities to and the number of long-term empty dwellings by council increase provision of family-sized affordable homes. tax band in Newcastle upon Tyne are shown in the [321608] following table. Data on dwellings that are exempt from council tax Mr. Ian Austin: The Local Authority New Build (including short-term empty dwellings) are not collected programme is providing over £500 million for the direct by individual council tax band. development of new affordable homes to rent by local authorities. Funding has now been approved to 87 local Long-term empty authorities to build over 4,000 homes. If all proceed to Council tax band Number of dwellings dwellings completion over 40 per cent. will be homes with three A 71,269 1,157 bedrooms or more. B 18,065 105 C 17,596 125 Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State D 8,200 68 for Communities and Local Government what his most E 4,007 26 recent assessment is of the effectiveness of the F 1,916 17 pathfinder areas in increasing provision of family-sized G 1,491 19 affordable homes. [321609] H 117 5 Total 122,661 1,522 Mr. Ian Austin: The overcrowding pathfinder programme has enabled local authorities to develop effective schemes The data are as reported on the “Calculation of that support under-occupiers who wish to downsize Council Tax Base for Formula Grant Purposes” (CTB) and to therefore free up family-sized affordable homes. form completed by all the billing authorities in England The majority of pathfinders have reported an increase as at October 2009. in the number of family-sized homes being made available Council Tax: York to let. Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for AXA Group Communities and Local Government (1) how much on average has been charged in respect of band D council Hugh Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for tax in City of York in each year since 2002-03 Communities and Local Government what meetings expressed in (a) cash terms and (b) constant prices; Ministers in his Department have had with AXA and [322092] its subsidiaries since 2005. [322028] (2) which local authorities in Yorkshire and the Humber had a lower average band D council tax than Barbara Follett [holding answer 12 March 2010]: City of York in each year since 2002-03; and what the Since the formation of Communities and Local level of band D council tax was in each of those Government in 2006 no Ministers have met with AXA. authorities in each such year. [322093] Information prior to this is not held centrally and could only be provided at disproportionate cost. Barbara Follett: Details of the authorities in the Information on any meetings with AXA’s subsidiaries Yorkshire and the Humber region that had a lower could only be provided at disproportionate cost. average Band D council tax than York in each year since 2002-03, and the level of Band D council tax (in £) Council Tax: Newcastle upon Tyne in each of those years, is shown in the following table. Also shown in the table is the average Band D council Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for tax (in £) in York in the same period expressed in (a) Communities and Local Government how many cash terms and (b) in real terms at April 2009 prices.

2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

West Yorkshire combined fire authority 30 39 42 44 46 48 50 51 South Yorkshire combined fire 41 44 47 49 51 54 56 58 authority North Yorkshire combined fire ——515354565961 authority Humberside combined fire authority — — 61 64 67 70 74 77 Hambleton 74 82 89 96 100 106 113 117 West Yorkshire police authority 76 89 102 107 112 118 124 127 South Yorkshire police authority 74 94 103 108 113 119 125 129 Humberside police authority 95 113 130 136 142 150 156 162 Craven 142 154 160 168 176 183 184 192 North Yorkshire police authority 89 156 172 176 180 185 193 199 819W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 820W

2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Selby 156 163 168 174 178 185 192 200 Ryedale 166 169 176 182 187 194 202 208 Richmondshire 163 172 180 191 193 198 203 208 Scarborough 154 168 183 191 198 206 215 222 Harrogate 159 172 185 193 202 215 220 228 North Yorkshire 733 817 817 857 899 944 988 1,027 York (cash) 785 832 856 899 948 990 1,037 1,071 York (at April 2009 prices) 945 971 975 992 1,021 1,020 1,025 1,071

The data are not strictly comparable as (a) not all May 2006. The projects are pail of department’s estates authorities were in existence in all years and (b) efficiency strategy, resulting in running cost efficiencies responsibilities and functions vary between authorities. of £8 million per annum. The data are collected on the annual budget requirement Departmental Information Officers (BR) forms submitted to Communities and Local Government by all billing and precepting authorities in England. Mr. Maude: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Departmental Buildings answer to the hon. Member for Ruislip Northwood of 5 February 2010, Official Report, column 632W, on Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State departmental information officers, what the (a) job for Communities and Local Government how much his title, (b) division and (c) responsibilities are of each of Department spent on office refurbishments in each the eight members of staff who work full-time on year since its inception. [320475] communications who are not listed in the White Book. [320910] Barbara Follett: The Department for Communities and Local Government has spent £17 million, including Barbara Follett: The information requested is set out VAT, on office refurbishments since its inception in in the following table:

(a) Job title Grade (b) Division (c) Responsibilities

Communications manager, planning Senior executive officer Planning directorate communications Stakeholder communications reform and stakeholder engagement Strategic communications manager Grade 6 Local government research, strategy Communications strategy for the and communications directorate Communications manager Senior information officer (0.6) Community action and third sector Communications and stakeholder communications and stakeholder engagement activity and strategy for engagement division the programme Communications Lead FiReControl Grade 7 FiReControl Communications and stakeholder management adviser for the FiReControl project in Fire and Resilience Directorate Head of communications and Grade 7 Fire and resilience directorate Communications and stakeholder stakeholder engagement engagement for the FRD directorate Housing communications and Grade 7 Housing shared policy and support Housing communications and stakeholder engagement team leader stakeholder engagement Devolved web manager Higher executive officer- Housing shared policy and support Manager, editor and publisher of all content, data and publications to the housing section of the communities and local government website. e-publications manager Executive officer Housing shared policy and support Electronic publisher/editor for the housing section of the communities and local government website.

Flood Control: Finance Herefordshire council North Yorkshire county council John Howell: To ask the Secretary of State for Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead Communities and Local Government which local West Berkshire council. authorities have made submissions to his Department for funding under the Bellwin scheme as a result of the recent severe weather conditions. [322304] Housing: Standards

Barbara Follett [holding answer 15 March 2010]: The Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for following local authorities have registered an intention Communities and Local Government how many to apply for Bellwin assistance as a result of the bad architectural assessments of each Kickstart weather in December 2009 and January 2010: development were made; and if he will place in the City of York council Library a copy of each such assessment. [321558] 821W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 822W

John Healey: The Kickstart projects architectural Table 1: Income support, jobseeker’s allowance (IB) and pension credit claimants who are receiving help with mortgage interest in Birmingham local merits are dealt with as part of the Building for Life authority, August 2009 assessment. Benefit Number Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for PC 2,300 Communities and Local Government what scores were Notes: 1. Figures have been rounded to the nearest 100. given to each Kickstart development during its first 2. Figures have been up-rated using 5 per cent. proportions against 100 per cent. assessment; for what reason each was subsequently Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study totals. re-scored; and what score was later applied to each 3. No estimate is available yet for the number of employment and support allowance (income-related) cases. development. [321559] Source: Department for Work and Pensions, Information Directorate, 5 per cent. John Healey: The Homes and Communities Agency sample. (HCA) commissioned the Commission for Architecture and the Build Environment (CABE) to carry out Building Caseload—number of claimants for Life assessments on Kickstart round one schemes. Pension credit was introduced on 6 October 2003 and The breakdown of Building for Life scores under Kickstart replaced minimum income guarantee (income support round one can be found on the HCA’s website. The for people aged 60 or over). The vast majority of people Building for Life scores were only part of the total who were previously in receipt of the minimum income design assessment. For the lower scoring schemes, the guarantee transferred to pension credit in October 2003. HCA supplemented these assessments with further Pension credit is claimed on a household basis and information to enable the suitability of bids to be therefore the number of people that pension credit considered in their wider community and local authority helps is the number of claimants in addition to the context. number of partners for whom they are also claiming. The HCA and CABE will produce detailed reports The best statistics on benefits are now derived from on all aspects of the delivery of rounds one and two, 100 per cent. data sources. However, the 5 per cent. including design, following the conclusion of round sample data still provide some detail not yet available two. These reports will include details of the design from the 100 per cent. data sources. In this case reliable assessments undertaken. data for mortgage interest support are not available Mortgages: Government Assistance from the 100 per cent. data so the 5 per cent. data have been used. The latest of which is August 2009. Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many Non-Domestic Rates: Ports households in Birmingham have received assistance (a) (b) through the Mortgage Rescue Scheme, the Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for (c) Homeowners Mortgage Scheme and Support for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Mortgage Interest. [321567] answer of 2 March 2010, Official Report, column 1152W, on non-domestic rates: ports, what assessment John Healey: Mortgage Rescue scheme summary has been made of the effect of the ending of monitoring statistics are published on a quarterly basis prescription of rating (a) on the work of the Valuation on the Department’s website. Statistics for the October Office Agency, (b) businesses within the prescribed to December 2009 period were published on 11 February ports and (c) the system of rating businesses 2010 and can be accessed using the following link: separately. [321733] http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/corporate/ statistics/mortgagerescuestatistics Barbara Follett: There has been no assessment made Quarterly figures reported by local authorities from of the effect of the ending of prescribed rating on the January to December 2009 are provided in a table which work of the Valuation Office Agency. The impact on has been placed in the Library. businesses occupying properties subject to prescribed For management information on Homeowners Mortgage rating, like the port authorities, was that their rateable Support I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to value was ascertained by the same rules of assessment the hon. Member for Meriden (Mrs. Spelman) on 16 that apply to all other non-domestic properties instead December 2009, Official Report, column 1297W. This of by a prescribed formula. information is not monitored at local authority level. The ending of prescribed rating did not affect decisions Help is provided towards the interest on mortgages on whether or not property occupied by other businesses (known as support for mortgage interest (SMI)) as part within ports should be assessed separately for non-domestic of income support, income-based jobseeker’s allowance, rates. The principles concerning separate rateability where income-related employment and support allowance and there is “exclusive occupation” and “paramount control” pension credit. are long established. The leading case on the subject is a The following table provides figures for Birmingham House of Lords decision from as far back as 1936— local authority. Westminster Council v. Southern Railway Company Table 1: Income support, jobseeker’s allowance (IB) and pension credit and W.H. Smith and Son. claimants who are receiving help with mortgage interest in Birmingham local The review of ports by the Valuation Office Agency authority, August 2009 was done to ensure that all individual business properties Benefit Number within and outside ports are rated fairly and that the IS 3,000 burden of contributions to funding local government is JSA (IB) 1,100 shared equitably amongst businesses around the country. 823W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 824W

The Government have listened to the concerns of Mr. Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for businesses with significant and unexpected backdated Communities and Local Government how much has bills, including some businesses within ports. It has been spent under the Decent Homes programme in legislated to enable such bills to be repaid over an Sheffield through (a) Sheffield Homes and (b) other unprecedented eight years rather than in a single instalment, housing associations to date. [322588] helping affected businesses to manage the impact on their cash flows during the downturn by reducing the John Healey: Sheffield Homes came into operation in amount they are required to pay now by 87.5 per cent. 2005. For the period 2005 to 2009, Sheffield city council reported £585.5 million capital expenditure on their As at October 8 2009, local authorities have reported HRA stock. Not all of this will relate to Decent Homes. that ratepayers occupying 221 properties within ports had fully discharged their backdated liability and ratepayers Housing associations have largely funded decent homes occupying a further 200 business properties within ports improvements through their own resources, and my had been granted a schedule of payments. Department does not collect information about housing association investment to deliver the Decent Homes Property Development: Floods standard in their own stock. Mr. Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many Communities and Local Government what recent homes in Sheffield have been improved under the representations he has received on Planning Policy Decent Homes programme to date. [322589] Statement 25, on flooding; and if he will make a statement. [321866] John Healey: Between 2001 and 2009 Sheffield’s non- decent dwellings reduced from 47,700 in 2001 to 10,057 John Healey: We have received over 100 representations in 2009. Sheffield city council have forecast that the in response to the consultation proposals published in number of non-decent homes will be reduced to 5,044 August 2009 for making some limited amendments to by the end of this year. The actual number of dwellings Planning Policy Statement 25, Development and Flood improved will be greater than the difference between Risk. The great majority of these responses have expressed these figures, since it will include both dwellings that support for the proposed amendments. We expect to were non-decent in 2001 and others that have become publish shortly a summary of the consultation responses, non-decent and been improved in the period since then. and a revised version of PPS25 with refinements to further improve the policy’s implementation and Mr. Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for effectiveness. Communities and Local Government how much money Sheffield city council has been allocated for Social Rented Housing: Overcrowding building new social housing in the last two years; and what estimate he has made of the number of houses Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State which will be provided with such funding. [322590] for Communities and Local Government what his most recent assessment is of the appropriateness of statutory John Healey: The following table shows the funds standards on overcrowding in social housing. [321605] allocated for affordable housing in Sheffield to registered social landlords and other providers through the Homes Mr. Ian Austin: The Government are committed to and Communities Agency’s National Affordable Housing addressing overcrowding and to updating the statutory Programme for 2008-09 and 2009-10 to the end of standards. February 2010. The £15 million overcrowding pathfinder programme 2009-10 to end February is helping both to develop effective strategies for tackling 2008-09 2010 overcrowding, and to build evidence to support updating Low cost of the statutory standards. Low cost home home Rent ownership Rent ownership Social Rented Housing: Sheffield Grant (£ 5.39 1.76 14.97 5.61 million) Mr. Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Units 100 60 256 170 Communities and Local Government how many Source: homes in Sheffield are still awaiting completion of Homes and Communities Agency Decent Homes work for which funding has been In addition, £1.53 million grant for 27 units has been allocated; and how much such funding has been allocated to Sheffield city council under round 1 of the allocated. [322587] LA New Build programme.

John Healey: As at 1 April 2009, 10,057 local authority homes in Sheffield were reported to be non-decent. For JUSTICE 2009-10, the figures allocated to Sheffield for spending on decent homes is £76,007,000 for the ALMO, £6,300,000 Antisocial Behaviour: York from Local Authority Supported Capital Expenditure (LASCE) and £27,600,000 from the Major Repairs Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Allowance (MRA), although not all the LASCE and Justice how many curfew orders have been issued by MRA is spent on decent homes. The figure for 2010-11 courts in York since the introduction of such orders; for the ALMO funding is £45,702,000 but we do not and how many of those people have been proceeded have the final figures for LASCE and MRA. against for breaching them. [322095] 825W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 826W

Claire Ward: The available information is provided in Due to data quality issues we are unable to provide the following table. information on breaches. Work is currently under way The data presented in the table are for curfew orders to resolve this. (under Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000 For information purposes: the data which have been S37) given in York courts to offenders as a sentence. provided do not include local child curfew schemes (set Data are not held centrally for the number of curfews up under the powers provided by the Crime and Disorder issued by courts as part of other sentences such as the Act 1998 and sections 48 and 49 of the Criminal Justice requirements of community orders under the Criminal and Police Act 2001 which has been repealed by the Justice Act 2003 s.177 or other Acts. Data are not held Police and Crime Act 2009). centrally for the number of curfews ordered as a condition of bail.

Total curfew orders1 issued in criminal courts in York, all offences, 1998 to 2008 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Crown court ————1152312 Magistrates court — — — 1 4 13 25 19 36 36 43 1 Curfew orders under s.38 of the Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000. These figures do not include community orders imposed with a curfew requirement. The magistrates court data include the adult and youth court. Notes: 1. These figures have been drawn from administrative data systems. Although care is taken when processing and analysing the returns, the detail collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent in any large scale recording system. 2. These data are presented on the principal offence basis. Where an offender has been sentenced for more than one offence the principal offence is the one for which the heaviest sentence was imposed. Where the same sentence has been imposed for two or more offences the principal offence is the one for which the statutory maximum is most severe. Source: Ministry of Justice Court Proceedings database

Care Proceedings The Ministry of Justice Court Proceedings database cannot identify the time taken between charge and David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for sentence. Justice how many children under 18 years of age who Number of persons found guilty at York magistrates’ court and York Crown are the subject of (a) pre-court and (b) court orders court for all offences, 1997 and 20081,2 are not in education, employment or training. [322413] Court Found guilty York petty sessional area3 Maria Eagle: Figures from the Youth Justice Board 1997 3,714 indicate that there were 1,708 young people aged under-18 2008 2,831 in England and Wales in 2008-09 with final warnings with an intervention, who were not receiving any education, employment or training when their order closed. There York Crown Court were 10,547 young people with relevant community-based 1997 480 penalties or community elements of custodial sentences 2008 535 who were not receiving any suitable education, training 1 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When or employment. a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for The data has been supplied by the Youth Justice which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and Board and has been drawn from administrative IT complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted systems, which, as with any large-scale recording system, from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police are subject to possible errors with data entry and processing forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those and may be subject to change over time. Differences in data are used counting rules may mean that figures from other databases 3 Includes the Adult and youth Court are not directly comparable. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services in the Ministry of Justice

Convictions: York Courts: Video Conferencing

Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many people were convicted at York (a) Justice what estimate he has made of the cost to the magistrates court and (b) Crown court in (i) 1997 and public purse of the virtual court pilot at Camberwell (ii) the latest 12 months for which figures are available; Green magistrates court of (a) police officers, (b) and what the average time taken between charging and court staff, (c) other court operational costs, excluding sentence for people convicted at each court was in each staff, (d) Crown Prosecution staff and (e) probation such period. [322125] staff. [322049]

Claire Ward: The number persons found guilty at Claire Ward: The evaluation of the Virtual Courts York magistrates court and York Crown court in 1997 pilot, which began in May 2009, will assess any variation and 2008 (latest available) can be viewed in the following in the costs of operational staff required to administer table. the process, compared with the traditional court process. Court data for 2009 are planned for publication in It will also consider the costs of the supporting technology. the autumn, 2010. The final report is expected in autumn 2010. 827W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 828W

The total project costs for the pilot are approximately at York (a) magistrates court and (b) Crown court in £5 million. This includes the costs of developing the (i) 1997 and (ii) the latest year for which figures are technical infrastructure required to support it, but excludes available; and what the average length of sentence at operational staff costs. each court was in each such period. [322126] Custodial Treatment: York Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Claire Ward: The available information is provided in Justice how many people received a custodial sentence the following table:

Total custodial sentences in the magistrates court and crown court and the average custodial sentence length (months)1, 1997to 2008 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Crown court Total sentenced 539 637 659 676 641 643 593 610 678 713 673 753 Total immediate 282 359 376 397 448 407 360 415 448 417 387 351 custody Total suspended 21 14 24 8 9 14 12 17 11 97 131 136 sentences Average 17.5 19.1 19.3 20.5 20.9 25.4 26.5 25.3 25.5 24.7 26.6 21.3 custodial sentence length (months)

Magistrates court Total sentenced 3,724 3,891 4,376 3,153 2,858 2,375 2,607 2,716 2,959 2,384 2,285 2,755 Total immediate 108 161 227 239 202 139 196 228 200 118 119 164 custody Total suspended 0412124036987389 sentences Average 3.1 3.2 2.7 3.0 3.2 3.4 3.0 2.9 2.8 2.9 2.6 2.4 custodial sentence length (months) 1 Excludes life and indeterminate sentences. Suspended sentence orders were introduced in April 2005. Notes: 1. These figures have been drawn from administrative data systems. Although care is taken when processing and analysing the returns, the detail collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent in any large scale recording system. 2. The data have been taken from the Ministry of Justice Court Proceedings database. The data are presented on the principal offence basis. Where an offender has been sentenced for more than one offence the principal offence is the one for which the heaviest sentence was imposed. Where the same sentence has been imposed for two or more offences the principal offence is the one for which the statutory maximum is most severe.

Dangerous Dogs: Prosecutions Claire Ward: Information showing the number of defendants proceeded against at magistrates courts and found guilty at all courts in the Lancashire police force Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Secretary of State area for selected offences under the Dangerous Dogs for Justice how many (a) prosecutions and (b) Act 1991, from 2006 to 2008 (latest available) can be convictions there have been in Lancashire for offences viewed in the table. in connection with allowing a dog to attack a person in Data for 2009 are planned for publication in autumn the last 36 months. [321884] 2010.

Number of defendants proceeded against at magistrates courts and found guilty at all courts in the Lancashire police force area for selected offences under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, from 2006 to 20081,2 Proceeded against Found guilty Offence description Section of the Act 2006 2007 2008 2006 2007 2008

Owner or person in charge allowing dog to be S.3 (1) 26 19 19 17 12 15 dangerously out of control in a public place injuring any person Owner or person in charge allowing dog to be S.3 (1) 11 18 12 8 12 5 dangerously out of control in a public place, no injury being caused Owner or person in charge allowing dog to enter a S.3(3) 11—1—— non-public place and injure any person Owner or person in charge allowing dog to enter a S.3(3) 2111—— non- public place causing reasonable apprehension of injury to a person 1 The number proceeded against and number found guilty relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences the principal offence is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extractedfrom large administrative data systems generated by police forces and the courts. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice 829W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 830W

Departmental Internet parties or, occasionally, on the direction of an employment judge. In order to maximise the use of hearing rooms Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice cases are listed (under the direction of a Judge) with the how many designs for its (a) internal website and (b) expectation that a proportion will withdraw. intranet his Department and its predecessor have Number of commissioned since 2005; and what the cost was of Office hearings 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 each such design. [321995] Aberdeen Scheduled 753 820 767 Mr. Wills: The Department’s internal website is the Completed 304 302 294 Ministry of Justice (MOJ) intranet. Since 2005 the Ashford Scheduled 2,162 2,492 2,265 intranet has been completely redesigned and rebuilt Completed 1012 1184 960 twice. Only the most recent design in 2009 required Bedford Scheduled 2,278 2,248 2,439 design work to be commissioned. The total cost for this Completed 914 821 858 work is as follows: Birmingham Scheduled 6,440 6,674 7,763 Total cost for design work commissioned for the MOJ intranet—2009 Completed 3,161 3,243 3,439 Task Staff Days Rate (£) Cost (£) Bristol Scheduled 2,660 3,039 3,194 Design drafts Senior designer 7.5 590 4,425 Completed 1,243 1,254 1,306 Project Project 0.5 600 300 Bury St. Scheduled 2,529 2,537 2,530 management manager Edmunds Total — — — 4,725 Completed 921 881 882 The MOJ intranet was created in 2007 to meet the Cardiff Scheduled 2,504 2,901 3,169 needs of the new Ministry of Justice. The new Ministry Completed 966 1,178 1,343 brought together a number of disparate bodies and the Dundee Scheduled 685 669 588 intranet was a key element in building the cohesion of Completed 307 226 217 the organisation. Edinburgh Scheduled 1,520 1,489 1,384 The intranet is the main channel of communication Completed 612 592 544 for Ministry of Justice staff across the Department Exeter Scheduled 2,055 2,548 2,395 providing up-to-date information on corporate issues. Completed 918 1,129 1,053 It also provides a wide range of information and resources which make a major contribution to the efficient running Glasgow Scheduled 3,074 3,523 3,749 of the Department and gives staff quick and easy access Completed 1,367 1,627 1,739 to many of the tools they need to do their jobs. Leeds Scheduled 4,459 4,769 5,110 The intranet was redesigned and rebuilt in 2009. The Completed 2,038 2,229 2,222 new intranet provides quick and easier access to information Leicester Scheduled 1,822 2,076 2,093 therefore contributing to increased efficiency in the Completed 670 846 822 work of the Department. A more modern look and feel Liverpool Scheduled 2,867 2,870 3,135 helps to bring the experience of using the intranet into Completed 1,082 1,092 1,264 line with the expectations of staff who use other online London Scheduled 4,871 5,357 6,405 channels both at work and at home. The intranet provides Central a central focus for all staff, is able to be accessed across Completed 2,599 2,952 3,446 the organisation, and helps join up the Ministry and its London Scheduled 5,294 5,182 5,182 staff. South Employment Tribunal Service Completed 2,635 2,636 2,695 Manchester Scheduled 5,596 5,766 6,657 Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Completed 2,226 2,448 3,008 how many employment tribunal hearings were (a) Newcastle Scheduled 5,751 7,208 7,206 scheduled and (b) completed at each centre in each of Completed 3,059 4,068 3,798 the last three years. [322019] Nottingham Scheduled 2,475 2,791 3,003 Completed 961 1,080 1,267 Bridget Prentice: The information in the following Reading Scheduled 1,911 2,380 2,384 table shows the number of scheduled hearings in each employment tribunal office and the number of hearings Completed 823 997 1,010 that actually took place in those offices. In each case, Sheffield Scheduled 2,040 1,969 2,086 the information covers each of the last three complete Completed 817 706 716 financial years. For the purposes of this question, the Shrewsbury Scheduled 2,008 1,770 1,942 term ‘hearing’ includes case management discussions, Completed 816 746 719 pre-hearing reviews, merits hearings, review hearings Southampton Scheduled 3,739 3,774 3,436 and, where necessary, remedy hearings. Completed 1,680 1,658 1,560 The listing of a case for hearing can often focus the Stratford Scheduled 3,217 3,679 3,221 minds of parties and representatives on the possibility Completed 1,605 1,645 1,372 of solutions other than a tribunal hearing. Many of the cases scheduled for hearing can, therefore, be settled or Watford Scheduled 3,334 3,017 3,705 withdrawn prior to that hearing taking place. A number Completed 1,489 1,344 1,469 of cases will also have been postponed at the request of 831W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 832W

Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 93,393 civil non-family proceedings were started in the county what arrangements there are for the management of courts of Greater Manchester HM Courts Service (HMCS) information technology at the Employment Tribunal area in 2008, compared to 137,500 in 1998, the first year for Service; and for what reason the service has ceased to which these figures are available. In respect of family law, there were also 4,766 private law applications and 347 public law employ stenographers to transcribe proceedings. applications made in the county or High Courts of this HMCS [322020] area in 2008-09, compared to 4,275 and 485 respectively in 2003-04, the first annual period for which these figures are Bridget Prentice: The Tribunals Service is responsible available. for administering the work of employment tribunals. In addition, at a national level: Information technology services in respect of those tribunals are provided by a unit within the Ministry of Local communities are being better engaged in criminal justice—by giving them a say in the types of Community Payback projects Justice, MOJ ICT (Information Communications offenders carry out and allowing them to see justice being Technology), which itself contracts with specialist IT done, for example through the use of high visibility jackets. providers. The contracts in place specify levels of service Offenders have now worked more than fourteen million hours, to be delivered, including measures for both quality and with an estimated value to the taxpayer of over £80 million. timeliness. Major constitutional reforms have been delivered, including Stenographers have never been employed by the Tribunals devolution, the Human Rights Act, Freedom of Information, Service or, before its inception, the Employment Tribunals Lords Reform, and a new Supreme Court for the UK. Service, to transcribe employment tribunal proceedings. Parties may, with the consent of the tribunal, use stenographers but the costs involved will be met by the Legal Aid parties. Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Greater Manchester what mechanisms are in place to provide for flexibility in the number of matter starts which may be allocated Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for to take account of increased demand at local level. Justice if he will set out, with statistical information [321828] related as directly as possible to Manchester, Gorton constituency, the effects on that constituency of the policies of his Department and its predecessors since Bridget Prentice: The Legal Services Commission 1997. [322138] (LSC), like all other public bodies, must work within a fixed budget. However, the LSC is responsive to increased Mr. Wills: The Ministry of Justice’s work spans demand for services at local level within that budget. criminal, civil and family justice, democracy, rights and Last year, the LSC increased the number of cases the constitution. Every year around nine million people funded of initial civil advice and assistance in areas like use our services in 900 locations across the United debt and housing to over one million in response to the Kingdom, including 650 courts and tribunals and 139 economic downturn—a record amount. The LSC also prisons in England and Wales. allocated cases in areas where clients had previously found services hard to access. The LSC will continue to The range of the Department’s policies and actions is maintain this flexible approach where there is evidence wide and the statistical information relating to it is not of both need and demand for additional services. normally collected on a constituency basis. Consequently, some of the information requested in the question Should the commission find, that there is insufficient cannot be provided in the form requested except at a access to advice in a particular area, either following the disproportionate cost. tender or during the life of the contract, they will Although data on sentencing for the period is not available for consider further measures within their budget constraints. the constituency of Gorton, it is available for Greater Manchester. This will range from offering increased matter starts to This shows a decrease in the total number of offenders sentenced existing contracted providers, to undertaking further annually from 94,568 in 1997 to 77,729 in 2008, the latest interim bid rounds to encourage the development of period for which such information is available. additional services. The number of offences brought to justice for the Greater Manchester area increased from 59,224 for the 12 months Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice ending 31 March 2001 (the earliest period since which such data has been compiled) to 71,894 (provisional figures) for the what steps he plans to take to ensure that the 12 months ending 31 March 2009. requirements of vulnerable people receiving services With regard to prosecutions, data is not available for the under the new Legal Services Commission contracts constituency of Gorton. However, the total number of defendants are met. [321826] proceeded against at magistrates courts in Greater Manchester was 123,806 in 1997 compared to 91,211 in 2008. Bridget Prentice: The Government are committed to The latest data, which covers reoffending in the period 1 ensuring that the most vulnerable people in society have October 2008 to 30 September 2009, showed that the 3 month access to quality, publicly-funded legal advice for family reoffending rate for offenders on the probation caseload in and social welfare issues. This is why we increased Manchester was 10.37 per cent. After controlling for changes in the characteristics of offenders on the probation caseload, expenditure on Legal Help, which covers initial advice there was a decrease in reoffending of 1.89 per cent. compared and assistance, from £176 million in 2008-09 to £200 million to the 2007-08 baseline. Data is not available prior to 2007 on for 2009-10. We have also increased the number of acts this basis. of assistance provided from 595,000 in 2004-05 to over The number of persons commencing court order supervision a million last year. During 2010-11, funding for advice by the Probation Service in Greater Manchester was 8,522 in and assistance will be maintained to ensure that people 1997 and 11,769 in 2008. can continue to access the help they need. 833W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 834W

The new civil contracts will begin on 14 October of prison and (b) assessed as suitable for offenders 2010. One of the main changes made to advice provision with learning (i) difficulties and (ii) disabilities; and if under the new contract will be the requirement to he will make a statement. [322044] provide services in housing, debt and welfare benefits holistically, under one contract. This will provide a Maria Eagle: Out of a total of 25 accredited offending more integrated service and meet clients’ needs more behaviour and substance misuse programmes which are effectively. Practitioners who do not currently provide offered in different establishments within the prison all three services have the option of forming consortia estate: to bid for this work. 13 (52 per cent.) are offered in the category A estate (remand The tender process for social welfare law and family and sentenced); services opened on 26 February. Practitioners wishing 18 (72 per cent.) in local category B (remand and sentenced); to bid for new contracts can access procurement plans, 12 (48 per cent.) in category B (sentenced); detailing numbers of case starts available in specified geographical (procurement) areas, on the LSC website. 19 (76 per cent.) in category C (sentenced); 5 (20 per cent.) in category D open and semi open (sentenced); If access problems arise during the life of the new contract, the LSC will take appropriate action—within 11 (44 per cent. ) in YOIs; budget—to encourage additional services. 5 (20 per cent.) in the female estate. The security categories A, B, C, and D and local Legal Costs category B relate to establishments which hold adult male prisoners. Female establishments and those for Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice young offenders are not categorised. when he plans to publish his response to the Jackson Prisons which have been designed and built to review of litigation costs. [321827] accommodate prisoners up to a particular security category may hold prisoners of a lower category to enable the Bridget Prentice: We are very grateful to Lord Justice effective management of the estate, particularly where Jackson for his far reaching report, which makes significant the establishment is fulfilling a number of functions. recommendations for reducing costs in the civil justice The predominant function of each establishment has system. We are now actively assessing the implications been used in producing the figures above which may be of Sir Rupert’s principle recommendations. This is a subject to changes in delivery. The programmes which substantial task and will inevitably take some time. are offered cover four broad areas set against levels of However, we will announce our next steps once this offender risk and need, which address substance misuse, initial analysis is completed. general offending behaviour, sexual and violent offending. Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice In addition to accredited programmes there are a how much his Department and its predecessors have number of non accredited programmes which are approved spent in (a) legal fees and (b) compensation on legal locally to meet particular needs and other activities cases concerning remuneration of its employees in each such as training, education, work, support and resettlement are offered to prisoners to help reduce the risk of of the last 10 years. [322063] re-offending. Mr. Wills: Details of Legal Fees and Compensation Further information on the delivery of accredited paid on (and following) legal cases concerning remuneration programmes across the estate can be found in the National of Ministry of Justice employees, excluding the National Offender Management Service annual report 2008-09 Offender Management Service, are shown for the last http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/noms-annual-report- three financial years (and for 2009-10 to end of February 08-09.htm 2010). Offending behaviour programmes accommodate a broad range of offenders. Where appropriate, prisons £ must make reasonable adjustments to ensure programmes Legal Fees Compensation Total are accessible to all those who could potentially benefit. 2007-08 35,596 3,203 38,799 If there are concerns for example about mental or 2008-09 67,145 232 67,377 physical health, intellectual ability, language, literacy, 2009-10 77,437 54,670 132,107 dyslexia, or disability then an assessment should be undertaken or specialist advice obtained to see if the It is not possible to provide details covering years particular deficits can be worked with within the before 2007-08 without incurring disproportionate costs. programme. Participation on a particular programme It has not been possible to provide information in will depend on the assessment and scale of the issues in answer to this question for the National Offender an individual case. There may be more than one factor Management Service (NOMS) without incurring that precludes an individual from participating in a disproportionate cost. Many prison establishments defend programme. and settle their own cases locally and records of Further work may be possible to prepare an individual, compensation paid or legal fees are not retained centrally. however there will be some offenders who are unable to participate due to the intensive nature and cognitive Prisoners: Rehabilitation focus of the programmes. If a programme is not suitable then one to one work may be considered. If an individual Andrew Stunell: To ask the Secretary of State for is still unsuitable then other interventions or activities Justice how many and what proportion of offending should be considered to meet their needs. Offending behaviour programmes are (a) offered in each category behaviour programmes are only element of National 835W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 836W

Offender Management Service work to address the Victim Support Schemes: York risks and needs of offenders and reduce their risk of reoffending. Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Prisons: Lancashire Justice how much was spent on supporting victims of crime and witnesses who were party to proceedings at Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Secretary of State Yo rk (a) magistrates court and (b) Crown court in (i) for Justice what plans he has for a new prison in East 1997 and (ii) the latest year for which figures are Lancashire; and if he will make a statement. [321883] available; and how many victims of crime and witnesses were offered support in each such period. Maria Eagle: On 27 October 2009, Official Report, [322127] column 10WS, I announced a new search for sites capable of supporting 1,500 place prisons that would Claire Ward: Data on supporting victims of crime focus on those areas of greatest strategic need, specifically and witnesses who were party to proceedings at court is London, the north-west, North Wales, and West Yorkshire. not available prior to 2001-02. The data in 2001-02 No decision has yet been made about where these relates to spending by Victim Support to provide support new prisons will be built. We hope to have a final victims and witnesses of crime in court and is only shortlist of potential sites ready for publication by the available for York Crown court and the total of those summer. Before the publication of this shortlist, there supported in all magistrates courts in North Yorkshire. will be a consultation with local Members of Parliament York magistrates court data was not available until and planning authorities to achieve the most open and Victim Support became a single charity in 2007. transparent process possible. A full public consultation The following tables provide data for 2001-02 (earliest will be conducted before any planning application for a data available) and 2008/2009 (the latest year for which prison is put in. figures are available). Sentencing (i) 2001-02 (a) All North (b) York Yorkshire magistrates Crown court Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for courts only Total Justice (1) what guidance he issues to magistrates on Funding 82,435 14,406 96,841 the activation of suspended sentences of imprisonment provided (£) where the defendant is found guilty or pleads guilty People 2,426 445 2,871 during the period of suspension to the commission of a Supported further (a) non-imprisonable and (b) imprisonable offence in circumstances where an imprisonable offence (ii) 2008-09 has previously been committed and the suspended (b) York sentence has not yet been activated; [321999] (a) York City Crown court (2) what guidance he has issued to magistrates on the magistrates court only only Total activation of suspended sentences of imprisonment Funding 25,841 28,586 54,427 where the defendant is either found guilty or pleads provided (£) guilty during the period of suspension to (a) a breach People 868 1060 1928 of a requirement forming part of the suspended Supported sentence, (b) the commission of a non-imprisonable offence and (c) the commission of an imprisonable offence. [322042] BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Claire Ward: Suspended sentence orders were introduced in April 2005 to provide the courts with a tougher and more flexible suspended sentence as an alternative to Business: Credit immediate custody, where appropriate. It provides for the court both to suspend the custodial sentence and Mr. Syms: To ask the Minister of State, Department also to impose community requirements such as curfew, for Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he community payback and drug rehabilitation. has made of the likely (a) price and (b) availability of The Government do not issue guidance to magistrates credit to small businesses in the second quarter of or judges on sentencing. The issuing of guidance is a 2010. [320389] matter for the Sentencing Guidelines Council. Breach of a suspended sentence order is governed by schedule Ms Rosie Winterton: The overall cost of finance for 12 to the Criminal Justice Act 2003. Essentially, where business is ultimately determined by the market, but is an offender breaches a suspended sentence by failing to made of a number of factors, including the cost of comply with a community requirement or by committing funding for the banks, and the cost of risk and capital. a further offence the presumption is that the suspended BIS data shows the overall cost for SMEs was stable sentence will be activated, unless the court finds it during the later part of 2009, and in general less than would be unjust to do so. If it activates the suspended two years ago. sentence the court can set a shorter term for the offender Banks maintain that they have the capacity to meet to serve if it wishes. If the court finds that it would be the demand from viable businesses in the second quarter unjust to activate the suspended sentence it can keep the of 2010 and beyond, and the Government expects them sentence suspended but amend the order to make the to do so. BIS data shows that majority of applications community requirements more onerous, or to extend from businesses for financial support continue to be the supervision or operational periods. approved. 837W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 838W

Business: Government Assistance Angela E. Smith: I have been asked to reply. The information requested falls within the responsibility Nadine Dorries: To ask the Minister of State, of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how to reply. many small businesses in each constituency in the East of England have applied for financial assistance under Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: the (a) Enterprise Finance Guarantee and (b) Capital As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Enterprise scheme since inception; and how many such have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question asking how many businesses there were in the City of York (a) [317528] applications were granted. unitary local authority and (b) constituency in each year since 1997. (321727) Ms Rosie Winterton: Under the Enterprise Finance Guarantee, as of 10 February, 742 businesses in the Annual statistics on business counts are available for 2000 onwards from the ONS release UK Business: Activity, Size and East of England region have drawn down loans totalling Location at £66.82 million. The figures for each individual constituency in the East of England region will be deposited in the www.statistics.gov.uk Library of the House. Businesses may apply for a loan The table below contains the latest statistics available for business from any one of the participating lenders who will counts for York UA and City of York constituency. assess which form of lending, including the Enterprise Enterprise counts for York UA and the City of York Constituency Finance Guarantee, is most appropriate. We do not Year York UA City of York hold figures for those businesses which are instead 2000 4,645 2,655 offered a normal commercial loan, or are rejected for 2001 4,760 2,700 failing to meet the lender’s commercial criteria. 2002 4,775 2,710 With respect to the Capital for Enterprise Fund 2003 4,945 2,705 equity scheme, CfEF received 57 inquiries from businesses 2004 5,095 2,725 in the East of England seeking investment to the value 2005 5,325 2,845 of £55.9 million. Thus far, although no businesses have 2006 5,480 2,865 received investment, two businesses have been offered 2007 5,690 2,915 investment totalling £3.3 million. Inquiries from eight 2008 5,740 3,000 businesses are being considered subject to further 2009 5,820 3,015 information to be supplied by the applicant. The remaining 47 inquiries have been rejected or withdrawn. I am not providing a breakdown by parliamentary constituency Departmental Consultants or local authority as this could make it possible to identify the individual companies that have received Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Minister of State, support. Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how much was spent on external consultants and advisers Mr. Bain: To ask the Minister of State, Department by (a) his Department, (b) each (i) non-departmental for Business, Innovation and Skills how many public body and (ii) executive agency for which his businesses in Glasgow North East constituency have Department is responsible and (c) each other body received support from the Government since 2008. sponsored by his Department and its predecessor in [319973] each year since 2005. [319150] Ms Rosie Winterton: Business support is devolved to the Scottish Executive. I suggest my hon. Friend writes Mr. McFadden: Central records indicate that the to the Executive. Department and its predecessors have spent the following on consultancy fees in the last five financial years: Tony Lloyd: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how £ many businesses in (a) the North West, (b) the City of 2009-10 (to end February) 10,773,864 Manchester and (c) Manchester Central constituency 2008-09 22,059,657 have received financial assistance from his Department 2007-08 17,221,768 and its predecessor since December 2007. [321038] 2006-07 31,020,555 2005-06 41,607,166 Ms Rosie Winterton: Since December 2007, a total of 293 businesses in the north-west have been awarded I have approached the chief executives of the Insolvency assistance from the Grant for Business Investment (GBI) Service, Companies House, the National Measurement and Grant for Research & Development (Grant for Office and the Intellectual Property Office and they will R&D) schemes. Of this total, 23 businesses have been in respond to the hon. Member directly. the city of Manchester and 18 in the Manchester, Central constituency. Further details, including provision of non-departmental public bodies and other bodies sponsored by the Business: York Department, could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Hugh Bayley: To ask the Minister of State, Letter from Stephen Speed, dated 16 March 2010: Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation many businesses there were in City of York (a) unitary and Skills (BIS) has asked me to reply to your question on how local authority area and (b) constituency in each year much was spent on external consultants and advisers by (a) his since 1997. [321727] Department, (b) each (i) non-departmental public body and (ii) 839W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 840W executive agency for which his Department is responsible and (c) Departmental Official Hospitality each other body sponsored by his Department and its predecessor in each year since 2005. Bob Spink: To ask the Minister of State, Department The Insolvency Service an Executive Agency of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills has spent the following amounts for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will publish a on external consultants and advisers since 2005: detailed breakdown of his Department’s expenditure on entertainment in each of the last 12 months. Amount (£000) [321398]

2005 11 Mr. McFadden [holding answer 9 March 2010]: This 2006 26 Department spent the following amounts on entertainment 2007 0 from June 2009, when the Department was created: 2008 244 2009 (to 31 December 2009) 156 £

June 2009 118,577 Letter from Gareth Jones, dated 10 March 2010: July 2009 114,972 August 2009 69,109 I am replying on behalf of Companies House to your Parliamentary September 2009 79,465 Question tabled 23 February 2010, UIN 319150 to the Minister of October 2009 118,300 State for Business, Innovation and Skills. November 2009 148,950 Companies House spent the following amounts on external December 2009 26,256 consultants and advisers in each since 2005: January 2010 114,120 February 2010 100,378 £

2005-06 143,821 A further breakdown could only be provided at 2006-07 248,567 disproportionate cost. 2007-08 125,477 2008-09 152,499 Exports: Milton Keynes

Letter from Peter Mason, dated 26 February 2010: Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Minister of State, I am responding in respect of the National Measurement Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how Office (NMO) to your Parliamentary Question asking the Minister many companies in Milton Keynes exported goods or of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, how services to (a) other EU countries and (b) non-EU much was spent on external consultants and advisers in each year [321876] since 2005. countries in the last 12 months. Since April 2009, we have adopted the OGC definition of consultancy, namely “advice related to strategy, structure, management Ian Lucas: HM Revenue and Customs publishes a or operations of an organisation in pursuit of its objectives”. regional breakdown for trade in goods. The UK Trade Prior to that date, our records do not distinguish between the Statistics for calendar year 2009 were published on 11 various forms of consultants and contractors, for instance those March 2010. The numbers of unique exporters for carrying out research projects. 2009, in the south-east, for EU and non-EU countries We have spent £77,071.70 between April 2009 and December were 3,215 and 12,761 respectively. 2009 on external consultants and advisers as defined by OGC. The UK Trade Statistics are provided at regional Expenditure in previous years on “consultancy” using the wider level so we are unable to confirm the numbers of companies definition that I have mentioned was: for Milton Keynes.

Financial year £ Further Education: Manpower 2005/06 34,969.34 2006/07 77,417.59 2007/08 93,293.94 Hugh Bayley: To ask the Minister of State, 2008/09 135,471.48 Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what the average staff to student ratio is in (a) York College Letter from John Alty, dated 25 February 2010: and (b) further education colleges in England. [312888] I am responding in respect of the Intellectual Property Office Kevin Brennan: Information on staff to student ratios to your Parliamentary Question tabled 23 February 2010, to the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and is not collected centrally. Skills. Information on the number of staff contracts is The amount spent on external consultants and advisors in published in a report by Lifelong Learning UK, ‘Further each calendar year since 2005 is: Education Workforce Data for England’: http://www.lluk.org/sir-17-data-collection-fe-sector.htm £000 Annex 2 gives information on the number of contracts 2005 24 for further education colleges in 2007-08. 2006 357 Information on the number of learners participating 2007 54 in further education is published in a quarterly statistical 2008 117 first release: 2009 105 http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/sfrdec09 841W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 842W

Greater Manchester Non-UK domiciled UCAS applicants receiving degree offers/accepted to degree courses in the UK Received main scheme Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Minister of State, Domicile offers Accepted for entry Department for Business, Innovation and Skills if he Non-UK EU 30,783 23,103 will set out, with statistical information related as countries directly as possible to Manchester, Gorton Non-UK other 40,255 31,992 constituency, the effects on that constituency of the countries policies of his Department and its predecessors since Total 71,038 55,095 1997. [322136] Source: UCAS Mr. McFadden: The Neighbourhood Statistics Service In the main scheme, each applicant can submit up to provides a wide range of statistical information at five choices (with the exception of courses in medicine/ parliamentary constituency level, taken from the 2001 dentistry/veterinary medicine where only four choices census and other sources. This service is available on the are permitted). Each choice is for a different course. National Statistics website at: Based on the offers they receive from institutions, the http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/ applicant may choose one firm and one insurance choice. The Government have put in place a broad programme The offers stipulate the exam grades required, in addition of reform since 1997. Over the decade to 2007, the to any non-academic conditions, in order for the applicant economic performance of all parts of the UK has to be accepted on the course. improved considerably. The global recession has had a negative impact on economic activity in all areas of the Lembit Öpik: To ask the Minister of State, UK. However, the economy was starting from a position Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how of strength and is actively supported by policies many students who do not speak English as a first implemented by the Government, including the fiscal language (a) were offered and (b) accepted a place on stimulus and a significant package of support for those a degree course at university for academic year out of work. 2009-10; and if he will make a statement. [322436] In Gorton people are benefiting from this investment. At the start of 2010, total claimant count unemployment Mr. Lammy: The information is not held centrally. stood at 5.7 per cent., compared to 8.1 per cent. in May Universities are autonomous bodies and set their own 1997; while long-term unemployment (more than 18 entry requirements. These will include assessment of months) stood at 0.3 per cent. compared to 2.2 per cent. competence in English language to ensure that students in May 1997. are able to benefit from their studies. Higher Education: Finance Higher Education: Part-time Education Stephen Williams: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how many first year undergraduate places in universities the Mr. Willetts: To ask the Minister of State, Government plan to fund in academic year 2010-11; Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he made of the number of English domiciled and if he will make a statement. [322275] part-time undergraduate students who received a full Mr. Lammy: Our grant letter to Higher Education fee grant who studied (a) between 30 and 49, (b) Funding Council for England (HEFCE) this year confirmed between 50 and 59, (c) between 60 and 74 and (d) 75 additional teaching grant funding for the equivalent of per cent. or more of a full-time course in the latest year an extra 10,000 full-time-equivalent places in 2010-11. for which figures are available. [321946] We did not specify whether these Additional Student Numbers should be full or part time, undergraduate or Mr. Lammy: Prior to 2000/01 there was no statutory postgraduate, but HEFCE estimate that this will result financial support for part-time students. The current in around 4,000 additional HEFCE funded full-time system of support was introduced in 2004; it comprises first year entrants. a course grant to help pay towards course costs such as Data on the 2010-11 student population, including books and travel and a fee grant to help pay towards the number of first year undergraduate entrants, will be fees. published early in 2012. Fee grants are available to part-time students on courses of no less than 50 per cent. of an equivalent Higher Education: Overseas Students full-time course. English domiciled students known to be awarded full part-time fee grants Lembit Öpik: To ask the Minister of State, academic year 2008/091 Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what Intensity (percentage of equivalent Applicants known to be awarded full information his Department holds on the number of full-time course) fee grants foreign students who (a) were offered and (b) 50% to 59% 5,300 accepted a place to study a degree course at university 60% to 74% 1,900 in academic year 2009-10; and if he will make a 75% or more 4,400 statement. [322434] Total 11,600 1 Approved applicants awarded fee grants. Figures rounded to nearest 100. Mr. Lammy: The information is shown in the following Source: table. Student Loans Company and Open University applications data 843W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 844W

Mr. Willetts: To ask the Minister of State, (2) how many and what proportion of English- Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what domiciled part-time undergraduate students received a estimate he has made of the number and proportion of (a) full and (b) partial fee grant in the latest period for English-domiciled part-time undergraduate students which figures are available; [321950] who did not have a level 4 qualification on entry to (3) how many and what proportion of English- their course in the latest year for which figures are domiciled part-time undergraduate students received a available. [321947] (a) fee and (b) course grant in the latest period for which figures are available. [321951] Mr. Lammy: In the academic year 2008/09 there were 197,160 English-domiciled part-time undergraduate student Mr. Lammy: Prior to 2000/01 there was no statutory enrolments who did not have a level 4 or above qualification financial support for part-time students. The current on entry to their course at a UK higher education system of support was introduced in 2004; it comprises institution (including the Open university). There were a course grant to help pay towards course costs such as 224,870 who did have a level 4 or above qualification on books and travel and a fee grant to help pay towards entry to their course and a further 35,465 whose fees. qualification level on entry was unknown or missing. English domiciled students awarded part-time fee and course grants academic Of those with known highest qualification on entry, year 2008/091 47 per cent. did not have a level 4 or above qualification Students Value (£ million) on entry to their course. Fee Grant 52,900 35.8 Figures are taken from the Higher Education Statistics Course 54,900 14.0 Agency Student Record. Grant 1 Table shows approved applicants rounded to nearest 100 and award entitlement Mr. Willetts: To ask the Minister of State, amounts rounded to nearest £100,000. Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what Source: estimate he has made of the number and proportion of Student Loans Company and Open University applications data There are three rates of maximum fee grant, which English-domiciled part-time undergraduate students depend on the intensity of the course. (a) with and (b) without a level 4 qualification on entry to their course who studied (i) less than 30, (ii) Grant level of English domiciled students awarded part-time fee grant. Academic 1 between 31 and 49, (iii) between 50 and 59, (iv) between year 2008/09 Percentage of all awarded fee 60 and 74 and (v) 75 per cent. or more of a full-time Grant level Students grant course in the latest year for which figures are available. [321948] Full fee 11,600 22 grant Mr. Lammy: Statistics for 2008/09 are provided in the Partial fee 40,800 77 table. Figures are provided for part-time student enrolments grant Intensity 500 1 as full-time equivalents. There were 144,005 full-time not known equivalent (FTE) enrolments at undergraduate level 1 Table shows approved applicants rounded to nearest 100. whose highest qualification on entry was known and a 2 Students with a fee grant who had no intensity of study recorded on the further 9,815 FTE undergraduates whose qualification statistical database. Therefore it could not be ascertained whether their level of grant was the maximum for their level of study. level on entry was unknown or missing. The proportions Source: provided in the table are based on those students with Student Loans Company and Open University applications data known highest qualification on entry information. It is estimated that around 10 per cent. of part-time English-domiciled full-time equivalent undergraduate enrolments by level of qualification students are awarded a fee grant, and around 10 per on entry UK higher education institutions. Academic year 2008/09 cent. are awarded a course grant. This is based on all Without a Level 4 or part-time students, some of whom are not eligible for With a Level 4 or higher higher qualification on support. To be eligible for grants, a part-time student qualification on entry entry must be on a course of no less than 50 per cent. of an Full-time equivalent Proportion Proportion equivalent course and not already have a degree. (percentage) Number (percentage) Number (percentage) Higher Education: Standards 0-30 18,770 27 12,285 17 31-49 11,785 17 10,920 15 Mr. Evennett: To ask the Minister of State, 50-59 20,815 29 21,635 29 Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what 60-74 8,700 12 12,230 17 recent meetings on university targets (a) Ministers and 75+ 10,560 15 16,310 22 (b) officials of his Department have attended. [321676] Total 70,630 100 73,375 100 Notes: Mr. Lammy: Government remains committed to the 1. Figures are based on a Higher Education Statistics Agency Standard Registration long-term goal that 50 per cent. of young people should Population. 2. Figures are rounded to the nearest five so components may not sum to totals. enter higher education. Alongside our aim of a greater 3. Percentages are based on unrounded figures. diversity of learners, we want to continue to deliver Source: widening participation and to equip both our future Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA). and existing workforce with the skills that globalisation Mr. Willetts: To ask the Minister of State, and a knowledge economy demand. Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (1) Higher education Initial Participation Rate is at 43 per how much his Department spent on (a) fee and (b) cent. for 2007-08 (with 2008-09 figures to be published course grant payments for English-domiciled part-time at end of March), so we are ahead of trajectory against students in the latest year for which figures are our target indicator. There have been no recent meetings available; [321949] with Ministers or officials on this matter. 845W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 846W

Non-profit Making Associations RDAs have various investment routes for supporting SEs, including funding through the social enterprise Margaret Moran: To ask the Minister of State, networks, direct investment into SEs, provision of social Department for Business, Innovation and Skills if he enterprise grants/voucher schemes, and development of will list for each regional development agency (RDA) mentoring schemes. From 2007/08, the Office of the the total amount spent on (a) start-up and (b) Third Sector (OTS) has funded a four year programme support in respect of social enterprises in each of the to enable each of the nine RDAs to develop SE support last five years; and what percentage of each RDA across the country. budget this represented in each such year. [314860] In addition, RDAs also deliver support for start-up and existing SEs through the Business Link service and Ms Rosie Winterton: RDAs recognise the value that regional Solutions for Business products, which are social enterprises (SEs) bring as businesses providing open and accessible to all businesses. As such, it is not significant economic benefits to regions while delivering always possible to differentiate between the start up and social benefits and/or enhancing the environment. support of SEs from that of other businesses. Only RDAs have various investment routes for supporting projects that directly support or invest in SEs are reflected SEs, including funding through the social enterprise in the following data. In addition, it is not always networks, direct investment into SEs, provision of social possible for RDAs to disaggregate between SE start-ups enterprise grants/voucher schemes, and development of and other SE support. mentoring schemes. From 2007/08, the Office of the Third Sector (OTS) has funded a four year programme The RDAs are only able to provide data on the to enable each of the nine RDAs to develop SE support number of social enterprises established over the past across the country. five years that have had direct contact with the RDAs.

The RDAs also deliver support for start-up and Total number of Total number of existing SEs through the Business Link service and social social regional Solutions for Business products, which are enterprises enterprises open and accessible to all businesses. To filter the RDA Year established assisted information to obtain the ‘type’ of organisation that AWM 1 2004-05 — 5 has received mainstream business support would incur 2005-06 — 14 disproportionate cost and as such the following data 2006-07 — 9 relate only to the support provided through projects 2007-08 — 640 and investments specifically directed at SEs. The RDAs expenditure on social enterprise start-ups cannot be 2008-09 — 540 separated from the support provided to established SEs. 2 Total amount spent on support of social enterprises EEDA 2004-05 — 107 £000 2005-06 — 114 RDA 2004/05 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2006-07 — 119

AWM 1 42 245 121 826 1,274 2007-08 — 215 EEDA 62 170 283 1,066 3,354 2008-09 — 330 EMDA 2,286 4,413 3,385 2,569 2,812 LDA2 n/a n/a n/a 476 740 EMDA3 2004-05 — — NWDA3 1,530 1,714 2,931 1,919 917 2005-06 7 407 ONE 172 200 190 247 326 2006-07 1 1,045 SEEDA4 n/a 158 179 231 758 SWRDA 288 245 520 736 974 2007-08 31 523 YF5 n/a n/a 2,189 3,789 5,139 2008-09 83 1,038 1 AWM: The figures are conservative estimates as data prior to 2007/08 do not include Business Link activity. Neither Business Link nor Social Enterprise West Midlands collected the requested data prior to April 2007. 2 LDA: Where figures are unavailable, this is because there was no funding LDA4 2004-05 — — directly attributable to supporting the social enterprise sector. However, there may have been funding for the sector in these years within mainstream LDA 2005-06 — — programmes which cannot be disaggregated. 2006-07 — — 3 NWDA: Business Link figures can not be provided prior to 2007/08, when their current provider began delivering the project. 2007-08 — 498 4 SEEDA: Prior to 2005/06, Business Link was not managed by SEEDA and figures are not available. 2008-09 — 1,980 5 YF: Did not hold the Business Link contract before 2006-07. YF are unable to provide figures for the funding that Business Link assigned to social enterprise support. NWDA5 2004-05 134 — 2005-06 54 — Margaret Moran: To ask the Minister of State, 2006-07 60 — Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how many social enterprises were (a) established in and (b) 2007-08 57 108 assisted by each regional development agency in each 2008-09 49 610 of the last five years. [314861] ONE6 2004-05 4 10 Ms Rosie Winterton: RDAs recognise the value that 2005-06 3 0 social enterprises (SEs) bring as businesses providing significant economic benefits to regions whilst delivering 2006-07 8 72 social benefits and/or enhancing the environment. 2007-08 69 561 847W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 848W

Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: Total number of Total number of social social As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I enterprises enterprises have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question RDA Year established assisted asking how much on average (a) men and (b) women in full-time 2008-09 181 488 employment in Milton Keynes were paid each week (i) in 1996-97 and (ii) at the latest date for which figures are available (A) in cash terms and (B) at constant prices. (321877) SEEDA7 2004-05 — — Average levels of earnings are estimated from the Annual 2005-06 — — Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), and are provided for all employees on adult rates of pay whose pay for the survey period 2006-07 — — was not affected by absence. The ASHE, carried out in April each 2007-08 5 214 year, is the most comprehensive source of earnings information in 2008-09 322 1,370 the United Kingdom. I attach a table showing the median gross weekly earnings for male full-time and female full-time employees for the Milton SWRDA8 2004-05 — 1 Keynes unitary authority area for the years 1997 and 2009, the 2005-06 — 1 earliest and latest periods for which figures are available. The 2006-07 — 1 all-items Retail Prices Index for April of each year has been used to calculate the equivalent constant price estimates. 2007-08 52 950 Median gross weekly earnings (£)—for full-time male and female employee 2008-09 44 1,095 jobsa: Milton Keynes 1997 and 2009 1997 at 2009 1997 cash pricesb 2009 YF9 2004-05 66 143 2005-06 57 180 Male Full-time 399 540 578 2006-07 48 554 Female Full-time *278 377 *441 2007-08 12 617 Notes: a Full-time employees on adult rates whose pay for the survey pay-period was 2008-09 110 1,221 not affected by absence. As at April of each year. b 1 Deflated using all items RPI for April of each year AWM: The figures are conservative estimates as data prior to 2007/08 do not Guide to quality include Business Link (BL) activity. Neither BL nor Social Enterprise West The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of a figure, the smaller Midlands collected the requested data prior to April 2007. 2 the CV value the higher the quality. EEDA: EEDA is unable to disaggregate between ‘established’ and ‘start-up’ The true value is likely to lie within +/- twice the CV - for example, for an businesses. As such, the data provided refer to the total number of SEs assisted average of 200 with a CV of 5%, we would expect the population average to be over the past five years. 3 within the range 180 to 220. EMDA: Data are unavailable for 2004/05 as this is prior to the introduction of Key the nationally agreed Tasking Framework. 4 * CV>5% and<= 10% LDA: Where figures are unavailable this is because there was no funding Source: directly attributable to supporting the social enterprise sector. However, there Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), Office for National Statistics. may have been funding for the sector in these years within mainstream LDA 1997 and 2009 programmes which cannot be disaggregated. 5 NWDA: Prior to 2007/08, the number of social enterprises assisted was not Personal Income: York recorded separately on the tasking framework. Data provided for 2007/08 and 2008/09 are the combined outputs of NWDA and Business Link NW. BL NW was established in April 2007. Hugh Bayley: To ask the Minister of State, 6 ONE: Figures prior to 2007/08 do not include BL services and therefore do Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what not reflect the true figure of total number of SEs established and/or assisted. ONE is unable to provide BL figures prior to 2007/08 when their current the average weekly gross earnings of full-time (a) men, provider began delivering the project. (b) women and (c) people in York were (i) in 1996-97 7 SEEDA: Business Link was not managed by SEEDA in 2004/05, and although and (ii) at the latest date for which figures are available SEEDA did manage BL in 2005/06 and 2006/07 the data required was not recorded. The new BL contract came into force on 1 April 2007 and from then (A) in cash terms and (B) at constant prices. [321695] reporting requirements changed. 8 SWRDA: The South West RDA supports the regional social enterprise Angela E. Smith: I have been asked to reply. network, and the numbers recorded relate to the regional social enterprise network and to the support provided through BL providers. The South West The information requested falls within the responsibility RDA does not collect data on individual social enterprises supported. Contracts of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority with our current BL providers started in 2007, so data for BL assisted businesses is not available before this. to reply. The letter will be placed in the Libraries of the 9 YF: Figures provided before 2008/09 do not include beneficiary data from BL House. as this predates the current BL provider. The figures provided for 2008/09 have not compared beneficiary data collected by BL and YF separately as this would Physics: Higher Education incur disproportionate cost.

Pay: Milton Keynes Dr. Iddon: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how much funding from the public purse per physics undergraduate was Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Minister of State, allocated to universities in each of the last five years. Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how [321825] much on average (a) men and (b) women in full-time employment in Milton Keynes were paid each week (i) Mr. Lammy: This information is not held in the form in 1996-97 and (ii) at the latest date for which figures requested. The Higher Education Funding Council for are available (A) in cash terms and (B) at constant England’s (HEFCE) teaching grant to institutions reflects prices. [321877] the additional costs associated with particular subjects. It places each subject into four price bands from A to D, Angela E. Smith: I have been asked to reply. with A attracting the highest level of grant. Physics The information requested falls within the responsibility along with other laboratory-based subjects is in price of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the Authority group B. The rate of grant per full-time equivalent to reply. undergraduate in this price group was as follows: 849W Written Answers16 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 850W

Kevin Brennan: Due to small sample sizes, we cannot £ provide robust estimates of young people not in 2005/06 4,959 employment, education or training for geographical 2006/07 5,126 areas smaller than local education authorities. Therefore 2007/08 5,291 we are unable to provide estimates for parliamentary 2008/09 5,484 constituency areas. 2009/10 5,425 England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland each have different measures of people not in employment, It should be noted that these figures do not equate to education and training, therefore we are unable to produce the total public contribution to each student. an estimate for the UK as a whole. The number of young people not in employment, Students: Radicalism education or training in England is published by DCSF every quarter. The latest information can be found here: Mr. Hayes: To ask the Minister of State, Department http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/STR/d000890/ for Business, Innovation and Skills whether his NEETQtrBriefQ32009.pdf Department has allocated funding to combating Figures for other UK countries can be obtained from Islamic extremism in educational establishments in the relevant devolved administrations. 2009-10. [321681] Weather: Industry Mr. Lammy: The amount of funding allocated to Preventing Violent Extremism and promoting cohesion John Thurso: To ask the Minister of State, in further and higher education by the Department for Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what Business, Innovation and Skills for financial year 2009-10 his most recent estimate is of the contribution to the is £1.1 million. economy of the private weather sector. [321360]

Unemployment: Wellingborough Ian Lucas: There has been no estimation of the contribution to the economy of the private weather Mr. Bone: To ask the Minister of State, Department sector. The most recent standard industrial classification for Business, Innovation and Skills what his most system, from 2007, as well as past systems, do not recent estimate is of the number of young people in (a) separately classify the weather sector, and therefore no Wellingborough constituency and (b) the UK who are official data is available specifically for the weather not in employment, education or training. [310668] sector.

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 16 March 2010

Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY ...... 707 TREASURY—continued Budget 2009 ...... 708 Government Holdings (RBS)...... 720 Budget Deficit...... 712 Listed Places of Worship (Grants) ...... 717 Capital Allowances ...... 717 Small Manufacturing Business...... 711 Credit Rating ...... 720 Tax Credits...... 718 Crown Estate Commissioners ...... 715 Topical Questions ...... 722 Economic Growth Forecasts ...... 721 Value of Sterling ...... 716 Government Holdings...... 707 Youth Employment...... 719 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Tuesday 16 March 2010

Col. No. Col. No. CABINET OFFICE...... 47WS HEALTH—continued Members and Peers Correspondence 2009 ...... 47WS Maternity and Early Years...... 51WS

COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 50WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 53WS Housing and Planning Delivery Grant...... 50WS Control Order Powers (Three-month Report) ...... 53WS JUSTICE...... 56WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 50WS “Cutting Crime: The Case for Justice EU Foreign Ministers (Informal Meeting) ...... 50WS Reinvestment”...... 56WS HEALTH...... 51WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 57WS Health and Social Care (Volunteering)...... 52WS National Employment Savings Trust...... 57WS PETITIONS

Tuesday 16 March 2010

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT . 13P Planning and Development (Essex) ...... 13P Planning and Development (Essex)...... 14P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Tuesday 16 March 2010

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 836W CABINET OFFICE...... 808W Business: Credit ...... 836W Business ...... 808W Business: Government Assistance ...... 837W Civil Servants: Redundancy Pay...... 808W Business: York...... 837W Civil Servants: Yorkshire and the Humber ...... 809W Departmental Consultants...... 838W Deaths: Cancer ...... 809W Departmental Official Hospitality...... 840W Deaths: Ovarian Cancer...... 810W Exports: Milton Keynes...... 840W Employment ...... 811W Further Education: Manpower ...... 840W Government Departments: Electronic Warfare ...... 811W Greater Manchester ...... 841W Lord Ashcroft ...... 812W Higher Education: Finance ...... 841W Personal Income: York...... 812W Higher Education: Overseas Students ...... 841W Unemployment ...... 813W Higher Education: Part-time Education...... 842W Unemployment Benefits...... 814W Higher Education: Standards...... 844W Non-profit Making Associations ...... 845W CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES ...... 733W Pay: Milton Keynes...... 847W Academies: Finance ...... 733W Personal Income: York...... 848W Children: Social Services...... 733W Physics: Higher Education ...... 848W Departmental Advertising...... 733W Students: Radicalism...... 849W Departmental ICT ...... 733W Unemployment: Wellingborough ...... 849W Departmental Languages...... 733W Weather: Industry ...... 850W Departmental Telephone Services ...... 734W Departmental Temporary Employment ...... 734W Departmental Written Questions ...... 735W Col. No. Col. No. CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES—continued FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— Family Proceedings ...... 735W continued National Youth Community Service ...... 735W Burma: Political Prisoners...... 779W Office for Standards in Education: Children’s Burundi: Politics and Government...... 779W Services and Skills...... 736W Capita ...... 780W Schools ...... 736W Colombia: Human Rights...... 781W Schools: Fires...... 737W Counter-terrorism: International Cooperation...... 781W Schools: Standards...... 738W Democratic Republic of Congo: Natural Secondary Education: Manpower...... 738W Resources...... 782W Teachers: Pay ...... 738W Departmental Disciplinary Proceedings...... 782W Teachers: Science ...... 741W Departmental Internet ...... 784W Teachers: Standards ...... 741W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 785W Departmental Paper...... 785W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 815W Departmental Travel ...... 786W Affordable Housing...... 815W Falkland Islands...... 786W AXA Group...... 817W Iran: Religious Freedom ...... 787W Council Tax: Newcastle upon Tyne...... 817W Iraq: Iran ...... 787W Council Tax: York...... 818W Members: Correspondence ...... 788W Departmental Buildings...... 819W Morocco: International Assistance ...... 788W Departmental Information Officers ...... 820W Morocco: Orphans...... 789W Flood Control: Finance ...... 819W North Korea: Prisoners...... 789W Housing: Standards ...... 820W Palestinians: Politics and Government ...... 789W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 821W Repatriation: Finance ...... 789W Non-Domestic Rates: Ports...... 822W South Africa: Football ...... 790W Property Development: Floods ...... 823W Sri Lanka: Armed Conflict ...... 790W Social Rented Housing: Overcrowding...... 823W Terrorism: Detainees...... 791W Social Rented Housing: Sheffield ...... 823W Thailand: Children...... 791W Treaty on the Functioning of the European CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 725W Union ...... 791W Departmental Internet ...... 725W Western Sahara: Politics and Government ...... 792W Greater Manchester ...... 725W Zimbabwe: Politics and Government ...... 793W Local Government: Statistics ...... 726W Summertime...... 726W HEALTH...... 763W Tourism: Poole...... 727W Abortion ...... 763W Arthritis: Health Services...... 763W DEFENCE...... 732W Bridlington Hospital: Bus Services...... 764W Armed Forces: Housing ...... 732W Cancer: Drugs...... 765W Armed Forces: Orthopaedics ...... 732W Care Homes: Inspections ...... 767W Carers: Birmingham...... 767W ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE ...... 731W Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: Research ...... 769W Bearwood Corporate Services ...... 731W Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: Staffordshire ...... 769W Dementia: Health Services ...... 769W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 793W Dementia: Research ...... 770W Carbon Emissions...... 793W Departmental Internet ...... 770W Carbon Emissions: Housing...... 794W Departmental Lost Property ...... 771W Departmental Advertising...... 795W Electromagnetic Fields: Health Hazards ...... 771W Departmental Internet ...... 795W Eyesight: Testing...... 772W Departmental Marketing ...... 796W Fertility ...... 772W Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers...... 796W Health Services: Isle of Man ...... 772W Departmental Travel ...... 796W Home Care Services: Finance ...... 773W Energy: Billing ...... 797W Hypertension ...... 773W Energy: Carbon Emissions...... 797W Influenza: York ...... 773W Fossil Fuels ...... 797W Injuries: Dangerous Dogs ...... 773W Greater Manchester ...... 798W Medical Records: Publicity ...... 774W Marine Renewables Deployment Fund ...... 799W Medical Treatments: Waiting Lists...... 774W Nuclear Power Stations: Construction ...... 799W Medicine: Overseas Students...... 775W Office of Gas and Electricity Markets: Manpower. 799W NHS: Foreign Workers...... 775W Stroud ...... 799W NHS: ICT ...... 775W Wind Power: Planning Permission ...... 800W Ovarian Cancer...... 776W Palliative Care...... 776W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Pregnant Women: Drugs...... 777W AFFAIRS...... 722W Psychiatry: Young People...... 777W Floods: Gloucestershire ...... 722W Smoking: Health Services ...... 777W Seals: Canada...... 724W Tree Planting...... 724W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 746W Alcoholic Drinks: Convictions...... 746W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 777W Anti-Semitism...... 745W Afghanistan: Religious Freedom ...... 777W Antisocial Behaviour...... 745W Bangladesh: Internally Displaced Persons...... 778W Antisocial Behaviour Orders: York ...... 746W Burma: Dams...... 778W Crime: North Yorkshire ...... 747W Burma: Ethnic Groups...... 779W Crime Prevention: Small Businesses...... 747W Col. No. Col. No. HOME DEPARTMENT—continued SOLICITOR-GENERAL...... 730W Crimes of Violence: Merseyside ...... 748W BAE Systems: Fraud...... 730W Departmental Travel ...... 749W Departmental Sick Leave ...... 731W Detention Centres: Glasgow ...... 749W DNA: Databases...... 750W TRANSPORT ...... 728W Domestic Violence ...... 750W Bus Services: Concessions ...... 728W Drugs: Crime ...... 750W Departmental Internet ...... 728W Police: Birmingham...... 751W East Coast Railway Line ...... 729W Police: Milton Keynes ...... 753W Motor Vehicles: Excise Duties...... 729W Proof of Identity...... 754W National Bullying Helpline ...... 729W Theft: Motor Vehicles ...... 754W Railways: Chesham ...... 730W Thameslink Railway Line: Rolling Stock ...... 730W

HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 731W TREASURY ...... 755W Nurseries...... 731W Budget Deficit...... 758W Business: Government Assistance ...... 758W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 743W Child Tax Credit: York...... 759W Africa: Overseas Aid ...... 743W Domicil...... 759W Democratic Republic of Congo: Extractive Economic Growth Forecasts ...... 756W Industries Transparency Initiative...... 743W Employee Benefit Trusts ...... 759W Departmental Internet ...... 744W Fuel Duty ...... 757W Departmental Lost Property ...... 744W Government Debt ...... 756W Ethiopia: Overseas Aid ...... 744W Income Tax ...... 755W Income Tax Personal Allowance...... 755W JUSTICE...... 824W Inheritance Tax: Housing...... 759W Antisocial Behaviour: York ...... 824W Interest Rates ...... 758W Care Proceedings ...... 825W Manufacturing...... 758W Convictions: York ...... 825W Non-domestic Rates: Ports...... 760W Courts: Video Conferencing...... 826W Public Expenditure...... 757W Custodial Treatment: York...... 827W Research and Development Tax Credit ...... 760W Dangerous Dogs: Prosecutions ...... 827W Revenue and Customs: Data Protection...... 760W Departmental Internet ...... 829W Revenue and Customs: Manpower...... 761W Employment Tribunal Service ...... 829W Tax Avoidance ...... 761W Greater Manchester ...... 831W Taxation: Pensions ...... 761W Legal Aid ...... 832W Taxation: Self-assessment and PAYE ...... 762W Legal Costs ...... 833W VAT ...... 762W Prisoners: Rehabilitation...... 833W Welfare Tax Credits: Foreigners ...... 763W Prisons: Lancashire...... 835W WALES...... 727W Sentencing...... 835W Business: Montgomeryshire ...... 727W Victim Support Schemes: York ...... 836W Departmental Lost Property ...... 728W

LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 801W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 801W Departmental Internet ...... 801W Children: Maintenance ...... 801W Members: Pensions ...... 801W Departmental Theft ...... 804W Employment Schemes ...... 804W Jobseeker’s Allowance...... 804W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 732W Lighthouse Project: Finance ...... 805W Departmental Lost Property ...... 732W Nuclear Submarines: Safety...... 805W Pensions...... 806W SCOTLAND...... 721W Social Security Advisory Committee...... 806W Future Jobs Fund ...... 721W Social Security Benefits: Fraud ...... 806W Taxation...... 722W Unemployment Benefits...... 807W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Tuesday 23 March 2010

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CONTENTS

Tuesday 16 March 2010

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 707] [see index inside back page] Chancellor of the Exchequer

British Airways Strike [Col. 727] Answer to urgent question—(Mr. Khan)

Council Tax Benefit (Change of Name) [Col. 736] Bill presented, and read the First time

Illegally Logged Timber (Prohibition of Retail, Wholesale and Distribution) [Col. 737] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Gregory Barker)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Opposition Day [6th allotted day] Equitable Life [Col. 740] Motion—(Mr. Hoban)—on a Division, negatived Amendment—(Mr. Byrne)—agreed to Motion, as amended, agreed to

Higher Education [Col. 792] Motion—(Mr. Willetts)—on a Division negatived Amendment—(Mr. Lammy)—on a Division, agreed to Motion, as amended, agreed to

Children and Young Persons [Col. 844] Motion—(Steve McCabe); Division deferred till Wednesday 17 March

Children and Young Persons [Col. 844] Motion—(Steve McCabe); Division deferred till Wednesday 17 March

Representation of the People, Northern Ireland [Col. 845] Motion—(Steve McCabe); Division deferred till Wednesday 17 March

Northern Ireland [Col. 845] Motion—(Steve McCabe); Division deferred till Wednesday 17 March

Petitions [Col. 845]

Potholes and Road Maintenance [Col. 849] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Dementia Strategy [Col. 181WH] Defence Industry (Lancashire) [Col. 204WH] NHS (Wellingborough) [Col. 226WH] Online Child and Adult Protection [Col. 233WH] Educational Standards (City of Westminster) [Col. 242WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 47WS]

Petitions [Col. 13P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 721W] [see index inside back page]