Brittney Yancy: Good Afternoon Mrs

In Her Own Words: Menen Osorio-Fuentes and ‘(Afro)-Puerto Ricanness’ Oral testimony(Unpublished) Date: November 3, 2005 Location: 137 Wolcott Ave, Fait Haven, Connecticut

Brittney Yancy: Good Afternoon Ms. Osorio-Fuentes?

Menen Osorio-Fuentes: Good Afternoon.

B: I want to start by asking you about your childhood in Puerto Rico and your family background. Particularly, describe your childhood background, focusing on place of birth, birthdate, family structure, family religious and political beliefs, family members, and siblings?

M: Sure, I am one of ten[children], eight girls and two boys. Now, one of my brothers passed away four years ago, so now it is nine of us. We were born and we grew up in a township in Puerto Rico called Loiza. The Northeastern part of

Puerto Rico between Rio Grande and Carolina. It is a very small town that used to be called a village. Once [it became a municipality] in the 1950s, we became a town. Whola! [Laugh]ж For us, it did not mean much, but it changed when it came to government and politics, but for us it was just like another day. So, I grew up there. When I was about eight years old…nine year old I will say, [I moved in temporarily with a friend of my mother named Doña Fela, a seamstress who enrolled me in a school in Santurce, well that was an experience.] [After a year, Menen moved back with her parents]. Then my mother took ill, and my father could not take care of all of us because he had

All parts of the testimony in brackets are modifications made as a result of a revision session between Ms. Osorio-Fuentes and myself on February 26, 2006. жAll words in brackets and italicized indicated were I have inserted my voice for further explanation. to go to work. So, [my oldest sister and I went to live with my Aunt Juana] in the town of Isla Verde, a neighborhood in Carolina. Isla Verde is a neighborhood, [famous for the airport] and my aunt had a business there, a restaurant there. So, we went to live with her. Of course, going there to live with her that meant I had to transfer to another school, school in Carolina. I went to school in [Sabana Abajo were there was a mixture of kids, different from Loiza, well everyone in that school were mostly white or olive skin]. Well that was an experience because the fact that, I mean ninety-eight percent of the people in Loiza are black.

B: Are they of African descent?

M: [They are] African descent and I can remember, [well the story told by the elders, and from reading] was a lot of us come from the Yoruba tribe.

B: In Nigeria?

M: Right, we have some background in that sector of Africa and the other mixture would be Taino/Arawak. So, I went to that school for a short period of time, and it was a very unpleasant experience. It was surprising because we were in that town[Loiza], we were sheltered in a way that we did not see the discrimination, and everyone in the classroom and at school were the same color. There was no [lightskinned people], but when I went to that school[in

Santurce] it was different. There was a high percentage of lightskinned Puerto

Ricans, so I was like a little bit, I will say, intimidated. A lot of people might say,

“Well how could that be in Puerto Rico, there is no discrimination.” Well I tell you. I lived it, so I know what I am saying. So, it was very a bad experience [even though I did not stay there or moved that year]. I think we had, I must have of had like one or two fights everyday because they would call me names, like “Oh my God, the girl[“la negrita”] from Loiza! You bring me some coconuts when you go back on the weekend.” Things like that, comments like that. So, I stayed [in Santurce for about one year of] my life, at my [Doña

Fela’s house and then went back to Loiza].

B: Now was this a predominately, you said ‘lightskinned’, so was this area a mixture of Arawak and white European descent?

M: White European, but the thing about this particular school, if anybody knows about that area is that, this particular school, most of the people that attended the school[way back then] were lightskinned. I don’t think it was meant to be that way, it just happened, but the majority of the kids in that school were lightskinned. And [Doña Fela] wanted me to go to a good public school, so she had a friend that lived in the same avenue. That particular part,

I can’t remember. So, she said, “I want you to go to that school.” So, we used

[Doña Fela] friend’s address to go to one of the public schools. So, that’s how I ended up in [that school]. But it was because of the area, most of the people that lived in the area. It was a community school. Most of the people were olive type, or very, very light, so it was pretty traumatic for me. That is when I started to see the different color lines. It was incredible because in my hometown, we never talked about that. Why was it talked. The neighbors, everyone was the same. So, in a way we were like sheltered. We had our own utopia.

B: In Loiza?

M: In Loiza, because everyone was the same color and everyone was friends with everybody. The neighbors sharing food and fish. It was very nice. I think I had one of the best childhood that any child can ever have.

B: So, when you were eight you moved to lived with [Doña Fela] and then you came back when you were about [nine, nine and a half] to Loiza?

M: Right, I came back to Loiza

B: At that particular moment, can you describe, were back with your father?

M: Yeah with my parents, for about short period of time, for about year then I moved back with my aunt because my mother was very sickly.

B: If you don’t mind me asking, what type of occupations did your parents have?

M: My father was a foreman for the sugar cane fields, he was a foreman. My mother was a cook to those workers. There was income coming from both ways, until she got sick.

B: So, she was not in the home?

M: She was in the home; she would cook from the home. A couple of people would come and pickup the lunches. She would do lunches for [the sugar cane workers].

B: So, you stated your childhood was probably the best childhood while you were in Loiza. Can you describe some of the your games, activities, or friends? M: We lived close to the beach, so there were like activities galore[jump rope with salgaso vines, rag dolls my mother made for US, and swimming]. And there were lot of fruit trees. So we were very, very active. And back at my Aunt

Juana’s house, which is very, very close to the beach. She would allow us to go after we had chores. So after the chores, we were allowed to go to the beach and play. And she would use Carey. Carey is like a sea turtle shell, the huge one. Back then [Carey steak meat was popular]. I do not know whether they still eat it, but they would catch ‘em [and sell them to my Aunt Juana for the restaurant]. We made like a hallow. We cleaned the shell and then we would make believe we were turtles and [used it for swimming]. And we would, you know, go to the beach inside those huge, hallow shells. It was fun. I’m telling you. I had it good. [Laugh]

B: Can you describe some of the gender norms in Loiza, or how it may have differed when you moved with your aunt? Were women predominantly working inside the home or were they working also in the fields?

M: That is very interesting, in my hometown, women rule. I am not saying that just to be sarcastic. In my hometown the majority of the women, whether it was in the field [planting] or whether it was sewing, I mean they all had jobs.

When I was growing up, they all had jobs. Domestics, you would go to the

“whites”, I don’t want to call a Puerto Rican “white,” but the lighter-skinned.

The upperclass Puerto Ricans, they would hire people from my hometown. So, you would see people everyday people leaving early in the morning. So, the women in my hometown were very, very I would say, self-sufficient. B: Did that differ when you lived with you aunt?

M: Well, my aunt who owned a restaurant, you see, from the beginning we saw that, we saw women very involved [as bread winners]. So, it was not a difference. In the areas were I was, I saw a lot of women working. Because in that particular area [Isla Verde] was like a tourist attraction because there were beaches and hotels. So, you saw women on the side of the road selling things, food, or women with little [iron cooking pots] also trying to make a living by cooking or selling things.

B: How did you identify yourself, and when I say ‘You’, I am speaking about those persons of African descent. Just a second ago, you said you did not want to call the lady white, so what types of classifications or labels did you all use to differentiate yourselves from someone of African descent versus someone of

European descent?

M: In Puerto Rico, they say that classification is by power and money. No, matter how black you are, if you have money, you fall into that[upperclass].

But, in my hometown it, my aunt would go to work. I am going to use her as an example. My [Aunt Isabela] went to go as a domestic, another aunt that I have, not the same one, this other one[Aunt Juana], was self-sufficient, she had her own business [and refused to be a domestic]. But another aunt[Aunt Isabela] that I have, she went to work with this family who own a jewelry store, a very famous jewelry store in San Juan. So, when we asked, “Where you were going?

She would say, “I started working with whites in San Juan,” you see blancos.

“Oh I going to be working with los blancos in San Juan.” So, over there[San Juan], yes, you say blancos or negros. It’s funny you never mentioned Indians when you speak [of the people]. You say, oh nosotros somos negros puertorriqueños, you know! We are black Puerto Ricans or nosotros somos blancos puertorriqueños, white Puerto Ricans. It is interesting that I say, my

God, I am looking, looking and never hear, “Oh nosotros somos Indios puertorriqueños.” You never hear that. It’s like [they say there are no Tainos anymore] and to this day I say, “Why do we believe that? Why do we let people put into our minds that [there are no Tainos], like that really happened?” When in reality, when you look around, and you see resemblances from Taino people.

But, like again, to answer the question, black or white, just like in the United

States, but with a different tone.

B: In what way?

M: In a way that in here[US] it is very, very pronounced, it is either white or black. Over there[Puerto Rico], it is like, like there is a hesitation to say it. ‘Oh, es trigueña’, meaning like, trigueña is like brown. You know what I mean? It is either black or white, you know? ‘Pero, no, no ella es trigueña,’ of color. They always tried with the answer like they have an excuse or something. Like, she is negra, but she pasable. Pasable means like she’s [not that black], or she is not that bad. I say, ‘why do we need an excuse?’ It’s either white or black. So, I don’t know, maybe someone who has more experience with that might describe it better, but that is my description, I have lived sixty years with that description.[Laugh] B: That’s very interesting, because in my class we have been talking about how race is really an American-centered type of construct, meaning race is so pronounced in America like your said, but some scholars have said in Latin

America grouping those who are of Spanish descent, in a homogenous way, grouping them together that people identify by culture and not race. That’s why I was asking, in Puerto Rico, is it identified by a race of white and black or do you identify by culture whether it is European or African?

M: Well, if you ask a Puerto Rican scholar, any Puerto Rican, especially the ones that are scholars, they will say, “We are Puerto Ricans,” “We were Puerto

Ricans and that’s what we are.” Fine, but my dear scholars, what has happen is that a groups like us, lets put myself as an example. A group from the town of

Loiza, ok I am Puerto Rican, but then you grow up. But then what else? We are

Puerto Rican, but we forget to study ‘the other.’ ‘Ok, I am Puerto Rican, you are

Puerto Rican, but why are you different from me?’ See what I mean? A child that grows up like [that], sooner or later the bomb is going to explode, “Why I am different from you?” Back in the late ‘60s, they started to put more emphasis in that and describe it more. You say, ‘You are Puerto Rican, I am so proud of being Puerto Rican.’ But then it covers, what I mean, it doesn’t really describe the different races in there. Why do people from Loiza cook [most every dish with] coconut milk, and people from San Juan don’t even know what that is? Why is it that we use so many things like Yuca. And we cook different.

We dance different. There are some words from Loiza that if we would have been; we got [ac]transculturated into the “San Juan culture”. So much that we lost so much of the [dialect]. We had a [dialect] that I don’t know what the heck [happened to it].

B: Really, amongst those people from Loiza?

M: Yeah, amongst those people from there[Loiza] that we say words that they never heard before in the other part of the island. You know, we have lost all that. And then a child like me growing up, I kept asking questions and I went to the metropolitan area for the weekend. I would come back from the weekend asking questions, after questions, after questions and my father, God bless his soul, he passed. He would tell us, he would explain a little bit, he said, “Never mind that, if they call you names, they call you monkey…go home give me a coconut. Don’t pay attention to that, because that is going to hold you back.

You are going to sit on that corner and the years are going to pass by you and you will amount to nothing. Nothing but complaining about the whites.” He would use the word whites, “What the whites are doing to us.”

B: In looking at your cultural heritage, it sounds like your family really had or recognized their African heritage, how did religion play into that? How did your family celebrate it?

M: Religion was a mixture. For example, my Aunt Fonza who since passed away, my aunt had in her front of the house. The front of the house over there[Puerto Rico] is like this the road then you had a walk, you had a deep inside. So, in front of the house she would have Bomba dances. She would have like gatherings of music, drumming, and my Aunt Fonza, I did not even remember what religion she was from. All I know she was very, very focused on the African culture. Very, very, very much focused on the African culture.

My father was geared towards the Catholic religion. My mother was Catholic for a short period of time. When we started by maybe age seven, she became

Pentecostal. So, you see what I mean, down in Loiza, you had a mixture of religions, the interesting part is that one respects the other. There is a mixture of culture, and with that we have taken, because we are so focused on the

African influence, we are described throughout the island and outside the island as people who follow the African religions and that they call you names…

B: What types of names?

M: They call you, “witches” and that you practice witchcraft. Never voodoo. I never heard voodoo. So that you practiced witchcraft or other type of witchcraft related activities. So, when you say Loiza, it is like if you say Salem,

Massachusetts. We have that in Puerto Rico. “Oh, you from Loiza? Oh you from the town of the warlocks and witches.” But it is funny because the majority of the people in my hometown are either Catholic or Pentecostal, you see? But it is like the legend that has continued on, even now 2005. Oh you hear, “people from Loiza, forget it, she’s a witch, he is a warlock!”

B: The festival of Loiza on the island, did you participate in that?

M: When I was growing up?

B: Right?

M: I participated as a festival goer, not as a participant because I was small. My family, my Aunt Fonza, the place to go to see Las Fiestas de Loiza. The place to go to hear the drums or to dance was to Fonza’s house. The outside of her house, so you see my family did participate when I was small, when I was growing up.

B: And that[The Fiestas de Loiza] is to commemorate the Apostol de Santiago?

M: Actually, no, the Fiestas de Loiza, it’s made in honor of Saint James the

Apostle or Apostol Santiago. It’s to honor Apostol Santiago, but it is not all about Apostol Santiago. It’s more about all the different cultures. The different ways of cooking, dancing, it’s just a fiesta. It’s a town fiesta, [brought by the

Spaniards] grew up so huge they dedicated to St. James because of the legend.

They say they found St. James, they found [the statues of St. James, and so,] they named the statues of the children, of the women, and of the men. Apostol

Santiago. And that came into my town from Spain when the Spainards were in town they did the [Fiesta] of St. James. When they left, after the abolition of slavery in 1873, everyone took cover and [went to another part of the island] because [slaves] were “released.” So, a lot of Spaniards that were habitating in the town, they just left. We continued the Fiestas, but if you look at La Fiestas the way they do it in Galicia, Spain or the way they used to do it in Loiza, to what we[FLECHAS] turned it into, it is more of a cultural celebration. If you look, it is totally different if you go to Spain and you see La Fiestas, and maybe way back then it was like that. But the addition of things we added, the drums, and all the other type of flavor from the African culture and the Indian culture.

It turned into a diverse fiesta. So, it is not the same, so I think we call it or now as Apostol Santiago out of respect [to the Fiesta’s meaning] and because they brought it to Loiza. But, it is a different thing, [a different meaning now] I wish that someday I see the comparison, La Fiestas in Spain and La Fiestas of Loiza.

We have the procession of the Saints, and we go to the Catholic Church. I am

Catholic, so we do have those elements in there and the other additions…

B: The Drums?

M: Respecting other religions.

B: Getting ready to focus on your coming to America. Did your parents decide to come to New Haven for a particular reason? Describe the day you left Loiza,

Puerto Rico. How old were you when you came to America?

M: I was entering, I had just finished over in the middle of the ninth grade. So you see that I was…

B: In your teens?

M: Right, when I got here[United States] that I remember I had a disagreement with my aunt. You know when you are teenager, you know it all. So, I said that

I am going back with pa and ma. She said, “Go back, but if you decide to come back…” When I finished the eighth grade I wanted to go into, with my friends, into a vocation school. My aunt say, “No! I don’t want you there. I want you to finish high school and then enter the University of Puerto Rico.” So, we had a big argument. [Menen said,] “My friends are all going to the vocational school.”

And she[Menen’s aunt] said, “Well, you are not going to a vocational school, I want [you] to have a four year university.” So, I said, then I decided to go back to my parent’s house. I kept going back and forth from Loiza to Isla Verde. So, my intermediate years finished, I finished in Isla Verde in Carolina. At the public schools in Carolina. So, the argument was that she wanted me to finish four years of high school and then enter into the University. And I went back, so I lost all, almost all the ninth grade I lost and part of the tenth grade. So, when I sixteen, my sister, who was here[New Haven, Connecticut], came here in the 1960s.

B: She was already here?

M: My sister[Selenia]came here in 1960.

B: In New Haven?

M: In New Haven with her husband, [Kelo]. He was a veteran from the army, and they hired him from Loiza to come and work on the farms. Remember the migrants? So, they stationed in New Haven because her husband was working one of those farms in Orange or Branford. And she was going to have her second, or third baby, and she needed someone to watch the other two while she was having the baby. I said, “I’m off.”[Laugh] So I went, this was how I ended up here.

B: So, did you travel by yourself here?

M: Right, by plane, and I decided to say, “Sure, I will babysit for you” because I was not doing anything anyway; and then from there, here I have been here all these years.

B: How did your family feel about that in Puerto Rico about you coming here?

M: Well, they, they had no problem, they just wanted me to do something.

Because if you’re not school in my hometown, if you don’t go to school or have a profession like you have girls fourteen sixteen who were seamstress already. If you didn’t have either of that or you were going to have to work as a domestic, and my mother hated that. My mother never, never allowed her daughters to be domestics. [Menen’s mom would say,] “You’re not serving no white person, you are not going to be a domestic. You have to go to school.”

She reinforced that, “You ensure and become a nurse or teacher.” Way back then, it was either a nurse or a teacher. You know there was nothing else. After that, it was nothing. So, I said, “I think I going to travel.” And that’s how I decided to become my sister’s babysitter.

B: When did you come to the States?

M: February 1964.

B: 1964…ok…What were your reactions, first what were your expectations then reactions when you first got to America?

M: The Mainland…to be honest, the only reaction was when I arrive the sun was shining and it’s so cold. You know how when you’re in school they teach you all these things, but you don’t pay attention. Because English was a second language in Puerto Rico. So, I mean the reaction. The way we were raised, we were raised in such a positive attitude. I mean it was incredible, my parents did everything they could to raise us well. And when I came here it was just another experience. I was very, very happy, but I was complaining that it was cold and I did not understand why. You know, and you know how you have to wear the coats and my sister would tell me to take it off [when entering some place] and put back on because it was cold outside. That is the only thing

I remember. So, I was concerned about school because I said, ‘My God, I am [almost eighteen] and I am not getting my high school degree. So, I was very concerned about that, in which I enrolled in a night school.

B: Where did you enroll?

M: In New Haven, there was a school called Prince School, and on the second floor every Wednesday they give you English, English as a Second Language.

So, I enrolled there just to learn the language, and then from there I was offered a kit to study to finish the high school. It didn’t set well, because I went to school, but I could not stay, it was very difficult. You know with the language barrier. Way back then, you didn’t have this bilingual programs that we have now, so it was difficult. But later in life, in my early twenties I decided to take high school exam and I took it and I passed.

B: Excellent!

B: Did you, so you didn’t speak any English, did you speak any English when you came here?

M: Nothing, Nothing at all, I had good grades in Puerto Rico in English, but it was, you know, it here was conversational English versus what you read. I guess you learn how to read it, you know how to read first rather than conservational English. There was no conversational English in Puerto Rico, so that was a barrier, a challenge.

B: Can you describe the area you lived in when you first got to Connecticut?

Was your community segregated? Did you stay in an apartment or house?

M: Right, I came; we came to live on [Hallock] Street in The Hill area. [Hallock]

Street in The Hill area [early ’64] was mixed. You had African Americans, mostly Puerto Ricans, and no other Hispanic culture that I can remember.

There were some Cubans, but not many. Then you had a large Italian population, large Irish population, and Greek.

B: And Greek?

M: Some Greek. We came to live here, when my sister moved again. When my sister [Selenia with my brother-in-law, Kelo,] came here in 1960, she lived on

St. John Street, what it’s called now, [Little Italy]. But from there they had to move to a larger one because [they now had] children, so they took another apartment, a multifamily apartment on [Hallock] Street in The Hill area on the second floor.

B: What type of occupations since you were living with your sister, she was expecting, so were you working within her home or did you venture out? I guess she was at home or did she work?

M: She was at home with the children, her husband worked at a factory, cable factory. I wasn’t really, I was helping her for a while. When I was seventeen, I decided to venture out and find a job. I went to a place in West Haven. I will never forget it. They used to make lifesavers boats in West Haven on [Orange]

Avenue. I went there with a friend, a good friend Carmen, God Bless her.

Carmen took me because Carmen used to work there, but Carmen was nineteen years old, I was seventeen. Way back then if you weren’t eighteen, you were not allowed to work. [Madeline, the supervisor, said,] ”So, how old are you eighteen? Do you know how to sew?” [Menen said,] “Sure” Never saw a sewing machines in life, “Ok, so you say you are eighteen, you know how to sew.” Madeline, I remember this Italian woman, she said, “I am not even going to question anymore.” So, my friend Carmen said, “She is not going to question you anymore because she knows you are not eighteen and she knows you do not know how to sew.” So, put me for week on a machine to sew the long strips, you know were on the lifesaver boat the long strip that hang up to this thing, the handle. So, I had to sew a straight line [out], that’s all I had to do, just go brrrrrrr. I said, “This was tuff,” then I started to do it curvy. So she said, “You have two days and if you don’t come out with a straight line or you will go.” So, the next day I brrrrrrr, see I am like that, when I need to focus on something. She go, “Ohh!” Then, she thought someone did it for me and I said,

“No, no.” Then, she sat down, I went brrrrrrr and made a straight line. So, I took my job for about four years and with that I saved money. I saved a lot of money. The first books I got, I got em because the money I saved.

B: What were they? Do you remember the books you bought?

M: Dictionaries, things I needed. I had this fascination with going to school, and high education to prove to my aunt, she did not waste, she waste anything on me. I am going to do it.

B: Describe your adolescence here in New Haven?

M: Oh it was fun, it was fun.

B: Did you go to schools when you or once….

M: I wasn’t in school, I wasn’t in school, remember that…I used to take English as a Second Language. But, I made a lot of friends and I discovered that there was something called [Savin] Rock in West Haven, an amusement park. We used to go to every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. My friends would work because they were over eighteen, so they worked in during the week. So,

Friday, Saturday, and Sunday I would go there and they would pay for my rides and stuff. You know way back then, the Puerto Rican community, it was so amazing, there was so much more unification. You know the neighbors talking to each other, gatherings. It was very, very nice and they would teach me

English as well. They would say, “No hablas español! No español, so Menen can learn English!” So, I appreciate it that.

B: That’s good. So, were most of your friends Puerto Ricans?

M: Right, I had a, except of an older friend I had, her name was Juanita. She was about forty-three years old, and she used to work at the place I worked.

We became very good friends, African American Juanita, and guess I got kind of attached to her because she resembled my Aunt Juana so much. Long, tall, slender and she had her hair curly and long, then she had on a hat. She reminded so much of my aunt, so we became very good friends.

B: What was the first time you became aware of the race and class issues in

America, when you first came here? Especially, during that time you came here during the sixties, mid-sixties, very turbulent time.

M: I remember coming to Congress Avenue, walking and the day after I arrived; and I was ask my sister what were they doing there. There were people on the corner, gathering, African Americans and Puerto Ricans, and I was curious. My sister said, “They are waiting for the bus,” The buses kept going back and forth, and I said, “They waiting for the bus?” She said, “No, no they are just hanging out.” And I remember that they were only African

American and Puerto Ricans. And I was just curious, and I said, “Why are they waiting for it?” My sister said, “Them don’t know, they are just waiting for it.

Know your business, keep on walking.” But everybody was so nice, you know what I mean? Like you would hear, “Oh my God Congress Avenue, no I am not going to go there.” And we were living there, and I saw nothing wrong, you know what I mean? They were nice people. That just, people that didn’t have a job or just down on their luck. But they were good people, they were my neighbors.

B: Did you encounter any type of racial discrimination or class discrimination during that time?

M: The only thing that I remember in New Haven, ever that I can remember, is that, you know coming from a farmland in Loiza, I used to drink a lot of milk.

And remembered we didn’t have any more milk in house, and that was when I was nineteen…twenty years old, three, four years in the city. And there was a restaurant in on the corner of, I am not gong to name the name of the restaurant. It was on Washington Avenue and Daggett Street, an Italian restaurant. And I went in to get a class of milk, to buy milk. They told the guy to tell me, the guy was washing dishes, that they don’t sell milk. So, I said,

“Why?” I went to the guy with my broken English, and said, “You don’t sell, you don’t drink milk?” The guy said, “No milk for you.” Then later I said, “I don’t think he wanted to sell me the milk,” but like, I did not pay much attention to it. I really didn’t experience much because I stayed mostly with African Americans, Puerto Ricans you see what I mean? Here we go again, with our own utopia, our own shelter in everyway.

B: Did you interact with the other immigrants who migrated the Greeks, the

Italians?

M: A lot of migration from the South, African Americans. A lot and I, my sister, we ended up with a lot of black friends. I think my sister makes the best collard greens.

B: Oh my Gosh!!! [Laugh]

M: A Puerto Ricans! I think the relationship, the good relationship in terms of kind of the same color, you see what I mean? Back in The Hill area you had to stick together. You had to.

B: So you identified heavily by color?

M: Absolutely!

B: As a result of the social and cultural landscape here in America?

M: Right, Absolutely!

B: What types of traditions and celebrations did you participate in here in the area that reminded of Puerto Rico?

M: Well, ok, we are still back in my teenage years and in my early twenties, so not much because the celebrations in Puerto Rico were more outdoors. Here, with the winters and the changes of seasons, I found that, we found we had a lot of celebrations like baptism, birthdays inside, weddings inside. Everything was inside.

B: Inside the home, inside the church? M: No, inside the home. So, if there were any social gatherings it was inside an apartment, somebody’s apartment. And in the summertime, we would go to the parks, the different parks, beach, what they called, but wasn’t a beach.

[Laugh]

B: This is not a beach.[Laugh]

M: Is that it? But, you get accustomed to these things when you, I always say it. I say to my kids, “You have to be able to get accustom to any weather change, you have to be brave for it.” You know, a lot of summertime outdoors activities, but the wintertime it was more indoors.

B: Did you go to any clubs, or parties or festivals?

M: No, there weren’t any festivals that I can remember of. Clubs, shh, are you kidding me? My sister would have killed me. No, no clubs, like I said only like birthdays and baptism. But, no activities like that.

B: When you were here growing up, were you and your family involved in the church? We have been reading in our class how the Catholic Church was big in helping Puerto Ricans adapt to America.

M: There was[Centro San Jose, ran by the Catholic Church] when I was younger and now they are still in existence. We have the Catholic Church was very supportive of the Puerto Rican community. But, like I said it wasn’t that many activities. I guess it was because it was so much social need, that kind of saturated over, getting ready for the new culture, needing things, jobs, houses.

The same things that existed in the sixties, the same things happening now.

You know people are in some much need, and if you don’t watch it, you if are not careful, it will absorb you. You have to make sure you restrict your time.

And that if you need a job, that you are make ready for it and if you are not ready for it, use some of that time that you have worrying about it and educate yourself. Taking that training, there’s a free training here, there’s the library.

So you have to be wise, you have to watch. Because, like my father used to say, “You will sit on that corner there, and twenty years will have gone by and you will still be on that corner, complaining about the whites, complaining about being down on your luck.” You know what I mean? We used to watch that. My sister used to push me a lot, “You gotta go to school, you gotta to finish, you gotta get out of this hole. You cannot stay in there.” I remember her saying, “No, you have to make it. Look at me, I have three kids, I barely finished high school, never went to college, you got to do it.” College in my hometown believe it or not was a big thing. But we, called it University [not

“college”], was a big thing, big, for people from Loiza.

B: So, did you get the chance to attend college here when you were in New

Haven?

M: Yes, I did, I went to Southern Connecticut State University. I almost finished my Associate’s, then I finished at Springfield college in the late eighties or nineties with my Bachelor’s at Springfield College. I started going to Wesylan for my Master’s in Liberal Arts and Humanities, and I dropped out of that one because I got involved in the Connecticut politics. That absorbed [a lot of my time]. My sister again, my sister still, we still so close and she said, “Nope, don’t do that, don’t do that.” So now I am sixty years old and I haven’t finish my Master’s and I feel so bad about it. Just the other day I was talking to my sister, she said, “you are sixty years young, you are going to finish it.” So, I have to do it. I am going to finish my Master’s, and my sister said, “If the next day you die, don’t worry about it I’ll get the [diploma] and I’ll put it on your chest.” But she’s been my motivator for many, many years.[Laugh]

B: Describe at this particular time, you are in your twenties, are you communicating with your family and friends back in Puerto Rico?

M: Oh yes, a lot of writing.

B: Writing?

M: A lot of letter writing.

B: Did you ever want to go back during this time?

M: I used to go back every year or every other year. I stop going back when my two girls were more demanding of things because they were in school themselves. I needed to concentrate more on seeing them get ahead. You know, I would then, I would send them every year, and I would stay here working. So my two girls, I would send them every year, so they could get a taste of what I, enjoyed the wonderful life that I had. One year my daughter, my youngest one said, “Mama, I love the coconut milk.” She loved the coconut milk that was good. I wanted them to have a place of being.

B: Can you describe coming of age into adulthood, you said that went to college at Southern Connecticut State, did you meet your husband or were you ever married? M: I never married, I have two girls with this wonderful person from Puerto

Rico. I remember that as we were going to get married, I pulled back. I said, “I didn’t want to get married.” I chickened out. I didn’t want to get married, so we lived together about three years. Then I ended raising my two daughters on my own.

B: So, at some point you moved out of your sister’s apartment?

M: I moved out of my sister’s apartment when I was close to twenty-two years old and I went to live with one of [our family, Crucita and Jesus, a couple]…

When I was twenty-one, I went to live with one of my friends and then my boyfriend and I we took an apartment. Then I had my daughter when I was twenty-two, first daughter.

B: Did you live in the same community?

M: Same community, same community and I never have, all these years, for over thirty years in the community I never moved anywhere else. I never moved to Norwich, or Hamden. Never, I always, we always stayed, my family is kind of steady, we do not move around. We never went back to Puerto Rico and come back here. We just don’t like that. It’s funny if I tell you this, if we move we would [the thought of having to] carry the refrigerator, the bed. That for us is such a humongous task. That’s why when we take an apartment, when we take an apartment, we make sure that that was the apartment.

People would say, “Why do you take [so long]?” We never rented more than the second floor. We were thinking of a fire. Isn’t that crazy? We never go to a third floor because in case of a fire, it is better to jump from the second floor than the third. You know all these things. We use to make like diagram of all this stuff. My sister would say, “Wait a minute, if you take that apartment look at the entrance is very narrow. So, they will have a hard time moving the stove so we better take the one, this older house, this Victorian house that has huge two doors that you open. Let’s take that one because of the two doors.” You know, people would look at us like we were crazy.

B: Very practical though!!! So, you are moving out on your own, are you still working at this a particular job or have you switch jobs?

M: Oh, I worked there…huh…I was twenty years old when I left the job, and I was still going to night school. Then, I worked in a place binding books. I really enjoyed that. You know, I kept switching from job to job. Way back then, [as now], who ever would pay more, “No, no, they pay .75 cents more over there” everybody would move to the other place.

B: How was it, at this time, having one child, how did you balance that time, and the community, were they supportive of you? Did you get support being a single mother?

M: Well, when I was twenty-two when I had my first child I was living with my fiancé, and he was working. I went to school, but I was not working. Then, I had my first child and I didn’t work for about three years, maybe four because he was the provider. So, when I had my second child we separated, when I had my second child. Then I took another job. My sister was again my [big] support, she would babysit, cook, etc. B: In terms of your community at the time, some of the Puerto Rican owned- institutions that were in the community, did you ever support, were you big going to the clothing stores or restaurant that were part of your community?

M: Oh yes, we had a Puerto Rican restaurants in the area. One. Two or Three.

The biggest one was in Bridgeport. So, on weekends we would go to Bridgeport and eat there. Agencies, we had several agencies.

B: Travel agencies?

M: No, cultural institutions that was there when I was in my twenties.

B: Did they specialize like in music or dance?

M: Believe or not, even though there were a cultural institution they were focused more on social services. It was funny because they had the name of a cultural place, but they were more like a social service provider. Then you have them the same name, “social service.” All the agencies were towards social services. So that is why in 1977, we said ‘wait a minute,’ in 1977 we incorporated Fiestas de Loiza. There was a [wonderful] woman named Panchi

Cruz who started a committee to do festivals. She did, with a group of people, she did the first Fiesta de Loiza. She did the first one, the biggest, then we kind of like joined her, and we celebrated the first Fiestas de Loiza. Then after that, they passed one the responsibilities to us, and we got incorporated in 1978. So since 1978, we’ve been doing activities like that, not just Fiestas de Loiza, but other activities about the stories. Workshops about, you know different in schools, and I don’t know if Kevin talked to you about this, Kevin has been very instrumental making sure that the workshops go through all the schools, to teach children about our culture place. And he’s been very, very instrumental and I know we hold other activities, fairs, abolition of slavery, March 22nd , which is something that is real big for us. There you have a goal, you have the opportunity to teach [and learn] something, our history.

B: Kevin certainly talked to me about March 22nd. That’s really interesting, as I move on, during the late 1960s and 1970s, the social and political environment is at a all time high when you talk about nationalism in a sense with the Black

Power movement, the Chicano movement.

M: We were there for the riots….

B: Can you describe that moment?

M: I was single, we were living in the Hill and the riots started and with that the whites felt, not as the book says, but as I saw it, the whites felt that they were being attacked. And Hell’s angel was coming from California and from the

Black Panthers. The Guardian Angels came from New York to defend the Puerto

Ricans, so you have a clash of three cultures in there. History tells you it that was ugly. We were there, we lived on [Hallock] Street. We were right in the middle of it.

B: Were you all not involved per se, you have the Young Lords around and things, how did this effect you, and the way you saw your own identity of being of African descent, being from Puerto Rico in America? How did that empower you and raise your consciousness?

M: Right, It was very, very scary. It created consciousness as to racism. Not that we were absent from it in Puerto Rico, but it was not like that. This was very pronounced. “I don’t like because you are of color and I am going to do everything impossible to erase you from earth.”

B: Did someone say that to you or was that just the feeling?

M: No, no, that was the feeling. If you don’t have a job, you don’t have an education, you don’t have food they are trying to take away what you value, that’s erasing you from earth. You know? So, that part was scary, I mean I was a young girl in the middle of war.

B: How did you identify at this particular time, did you consider yourself, Puerto

Rican, Puerto Rican American, Afro-Puerto Rican or black Puerto Rican?

M: We always considered ourselves black Puerto Ricans. ALWAYS! We grew up with that. Black Puerto Ricans. Later on in the sixties, Afro-Puerto Ricans and in my hometown “Oh she’s negra puertorriqueña or Afro-puertorriqueña.” We just say it without hesitation. But when you came here, you know, they would see you different. “Oh, you’re from the Caribbean” You would see among the

African Americans that resentment, that you use Afro-Puerto Ricans or Black

Puerto Ricans, you explain, “But that is what I have been all my life.” This who I am, how I grew up in the sixties, that’s how we described ourselves. So, it’s funny because I have a very dear friend I said let me prove to you. So I went, I got books written way back then that said “Afro-Puerto Rico.” [Menen said] “So you see right here…look, look, this book wasn’t written yesterday, it was written years, years, years.” This is our description, black Puerto Ricans, Afro-

Puerto Ricans.

B: What book was that? M: Oh my God. It was written by this Cuban, and she as describing the different races. But most of the books, the old books, they described a person from

Puerto Rico or the Caribbean of color, they would say Afro-Puertorriqueño, Afro-

Cubano, Afro-Dominicano that was the description. You can see it in any old book, what I mean by old book meaning that it was written years, years ago.

B: Can You describe the racial consciousness, the political consciousness that’s developing in your generation during the 1970s among not only Afro-Puerto

Ricans in America, but particularly Afro-Puerto Rican women in America, particularly in your area.

M: In the politics?

B: Right? With them being more politically active, racially conscious?

M: Right, like in Loiza, the politics were driven, have been driven by women.

We drive the political machinery. It’s happening now. We were strong, we were very strong as women of color in politics then, and we are stronger, much stronger today.

B: How were you politically active during that time?

M: Voter registration, I have been doing voter registration since I was twenty years old, in my late twenties. Very involved, particularly with the classes. The local, municipal voter classes.

B: How did you become involved and Why?

M: Well, my mother was very political, very political. In fact, I have a copy when she became a registered voter in Puerto Rico in 1931[Pointing to the copy]. She had many copies of that, so when she died that was my copy. I took that one. So, my mother was very political. Not so much, more like organizing like making sure the politicians kept their promise. You know like ,“if you vote for me I make sure I fix the road or whatever.” So she, her vote, when she went to vote she said, “it was here you have to fix my road.” She would look at them. So, when I came here[New Haven] I met a few people doing voter registration and just joined, automatically, I just joined. My sister, and I and my brother-in-law. We’ve been participants ever since.

B: What did you see in your community, whether it was African Americans or

Puerto Ricans, what did you see as the problem at the time that you wanted to assist in or if you saw discrimination?

M: In politics. The political, it’s different, the politics here are different from politics in Puerto Rico?

B: Right, that’s what I mean here in America?

M: Although, I was never a [political] participant, I was never in any way, shape or form a participant in Puerto Rico. By you reading, you know, that’s different.

What I find here, when people come here because it is a new culture. They find themselves as victims to individuals who know the political process here on the mainland. And I see the advantage they take on those who don’t know the process. So, those people who come here and they are in need, of course, I mean you come to a new land of course you are in need, socially speaking you are in need. So, I noticed, I noticed that well, “you need a job, you need shelter, you need food, you need clothing.” Those are the tools that they use to get people to vote. I don’t think it should be like that…I think it should be that, people should be educated. Well we have a responsibility to educate people who come here to vote for the first time, you know what? You educate the person, to empower the people in such a way that if the person becomes self- sufficient as a voter then they don’t become a victim of the few individuals or does not become dependent. You know what I mean? You do your part and then it is your time to give the vote, you go ahead and challenge that person,

But you choose. They don’t give them the opportunity to choose. You know what I mean, like the boogeyman type of approach. If you don’t vote, you’re not going to get this. It’s true! If you don’t vote, they see the numbers, not of the benefit of the few. I have that problem. In that part, I am very controversial, anybody can tell you. I am. I just finished an election as a write- in candidate because I don’t agree with the approach that this individual is using my people to get her elected. So, I said, “So, what I am telling her as a write-in.” She may say, “Don’t do that, it’s a lot of work?” So what, but it has to be done. You have to be, people have to be educated.

B: I definitely want to get more into your politics that you do today, but before that, let me ask you what is FLECHAS and why did you develop FLECHAS during that time?

M: Ok, we developed, it wasn’t just me. It was a group of people. The Fiestas de Loiza in Connecticut in Honor of Apostol Santiago that’s what it stands for.

We decided that there was a tool there that we could use [as you, as you progress], to better ourselves and the beautiful culture; and the beautiful music and history we have; combining all those to help us continue with the other struggles.

B: OF?

M: Job, education, housing, you name it. All the social problems. Maybe by us doing this, it would be [a motivator for] us to continue to looking for that. And I believe to this day, the best way to really engage people, is by that—food, music, gatherings like that, healthy gatherings get to know your neighbors.

The neighbors feel better about you because they know who your are. It is a knocker, it’s a good way to knock on doors. We have discovered that through out all these years, and to this day all of us believe, the people who had founded this, the founders, we believe that this is a beautiful tool to get acquainted with your neighbors and to get more enthusiasm. Whether it is getting a new job, [getting an education]. Saturdays and Sundays, you know once a year for three days. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday once a year, you celebrate your culture.

B: So you saw FLECHAS as an institution to help your won self-identity, of being a normal Puerto Rican her in America just trying to make?

M: Right, as a tool!

B: Can you describe some of the African inspired-traditions such as the Bomba, the food, dances, dress and what does that’s that signify?

M: We see it, all those things that you mentioned as empowering. It is a strength to stay here, to help us not to move around, back and forth, back and forth, and to this day I don’t understand, I really don’t understand what they are looking for. Whatever it is got to be there, you need something to give it strength. You can kick open those doors, kick them open doors for you.

Whatever little we have that is the delivered African influence, how little they are, they play a very strong part in our lives. The food, the music, some of the dance, a little of the language, we lost, like African Americans, we lost it all, we lost all the language. But, there are a few words we still use, those little things…oh my God…it is vitamin for our spirits.

B: What type of words or food?

M: Words like [Gandinga, Tun-Tun], words like that.

B: What does that signify for?

M: It tell us that we are here for a reason, not to give up. It’s telling us to pass it on, whatever little information we have, don’t store, keep it preserve it, but pass it on. Don’t just preserve it, pass it on. My grandchildren they need to know it, and if we don’t then it will disappear completely. We make it, if we don’t do anything about and it disappears then the other generations will be more confused about where they come from. Those little things that you mentioned, even food, it plays a big part, because you place it there it will force the persons or child to ask questions, “Where is this from?” And that’s when you engage the person, then you open up again the bookshelves and then you start looking for information to give to that child or that person.

B: It opens up that conversation about these are your roots, this is where you come from, this where you come from… M: My parents and my aunts, they all talked about it, and what they were doing was passing it around.

B: What type of food do you cook that remind you, that you share with you family?

M: We used a lot of coconut milk in our food, a lot of roots like yams, a lot of those vegetables are African-descended. That coconut milk, African- descended. We do a, it’s like a porridge; we call it [“Caldo Santo”] “Holy

Porridge,” we all make it during Easter season. We discovered that it came from Madagascar. How we discovered that? A Yale-student who knew how to read French. He was reading a French book at the community school that talks about [Caldo Santo] in Madagascar and we compared the ingredients we use in

Loiza with the ingredients in Madagascar, and it is the same ingredients.

B: Really?

M: The same ingredients. How it ended up in Loiza? we don’t know. But as long as I can remember, we’ve been eating [Caldo Santo] or Holy porridge. It is made with fish, roots, yams, coconut oil and coconut milk that is very from the

African culture. And other things, many other things. So, food basically are reminding and teaching the children.

B: Besides FLECHAS, I know you are involved politically, how did you become involved in community activism, I know you said voter registration, but recently what motivated you from the creation of FLECHAS up to now? M: I couldn’t, we became more involved about five years after the creation of

FLECHAS; it was because in here, the political machine representing us, they didn’t understand us people from that part of Puerto Rico.

B: They didn’t understand…?

M: They did not understand us. They didn’t know us. They did very minimal, they knew minimal about us. See, a lot [of Puerto Rican] politicians, they were born and raised here.

B: Were they white or black Puerto Ricans?

M: Whether they were, they didn’t have black Puerto Ricans in office, the people involved they were not aware about of the elements in our culture. And if they knew about it, they certainly did not show us. So, you have a large percentage of people from Loiza in here, and politics in New Haven is dictator no matter what you do, it is, it is not a secret. Well we said, “Let’s be participants, lets participate.” So that is how I became involved. My daughter became involved as a young girl. My sister and my brother-in-law were already involved in the process. So, a few years ago, about twelve years ago, we decided to “Let’s run one.” A person from Loiza in office. I’m it. I think I became the first [Loiceña] involved in politics as co-chair of the Democratic

Party. Then, soon after that, eight years ago, my daughter became alderwoman, and not just for the [Loiceños] or Puerto Ricans, but for everyone.

Every person of color or every person who were being left behind or discriminated against. We were put in a corner in a since we don’t. It was difficult to get the park [and other permits]. It was difficult to get the police to help us out.

B: That’s what I wanted to ask, what type of issues were you fighting against?

M: Against getting stuff ready, nonsense against getting trash cans for the festivities. You know what I mean, things like that, everything was an issue or a problem.

B: Because of color or class?

M: I don’t know if it was of color, or if it was because we were not known. We were not known in the political arena. In New Haven you have to know or you have to be known in the political arena. [And most serving us in office knew little or nothing about these types of traditions from Puerto Rico. They were born here under beliefs and religions that were and still not friendly to certain traditions. For example, the Vejigantes mask is scary for some people, to us it’s a cultural artifact]. I have to tell you, we are very outspoken, that’s is sometimes is not a very good idea, but nonetheless you have to do it. If you see something that is productive to your benefits as a group, you can’t keep your mouth shut, you have to talk. You have to talk and make sure that in a very nice way you come to a consensus or you find ways to fix it.

B: How did you feel about the labels that derive during the late 1970s of

“Latinos” or “Hispanic” that is grouping the persons of Latin America?

M: I think it is a very bad idea because you are putting everybody, everyone who is Spanish speaking, dumping them into that bag and you calling them

Latinos. But I am trying to get out of the bag, crawling back up and say, “I am not Latina.” I am from the Caribe, I am a Caribbean black women from Puerto

Rico. Then they say, “Well the Latina is the word that you should use.” No, I am not going to use[it], I am not going to identify myself as a Latina. I am not from

South or Central America. They describe themselves like that. I describe myself as Caribbean, Puerto Rican, or Hispanic woman. And there is a big controversy with that. So, the same controversy that was there with African Americans, black or Negro, women, women of color, black. It is the something, why do we get into this, I don’t know, what is it to use up time, because it is not getting what we need. Nonetheless, but when someone tries to impose it on you that’s when you make it an issue and fight to try to change it. Not until somebody tells you this or that then you are this have problems that you should talk about, and I am talking about it because someone in New York decided to put all of us in a bag and call us Latinos, so it blew up like dynamic and everybody is calling us Latinos or Latinas.

B: There also contention about the word Latino, but you would use the Hispanic that also has been stigmatized? How do you feel about that because it has been argued that Hispanic is a colonial terms?

M: I never use it though, I never described myself as Hispanic or Latino, I use

Puerto Rican or black Puerto Rican or Afro-Puerto Ricans or Caribbean. I never use Latino or Hispanic, I always use those terms. So, the problem that I have with the Latino thing is that it is so broad; it extends itself all the way to Brazil and the island, Portuguese, Italy.

B: It groups everybody… M: If I were a person looking for funding, I can go, tap into any of those programs because when they made those proposals they said for the Latino community. So, I am Portuguese, I tap into funding for a Puerto Rican because they call themselves Latino. You know what I mean. Wouldn’t that bring complications? I mean, I don’t know, I think it would. Not just from that, but also in other aspects. I never heard that before, that came about that started to surface in the 1980s. Like I said, “Puerto Rican” we hear something that’s

New York, then all of the sudden everyone what to be called Latino. I said,

“God, we are so unstable.” At sometimes we appear to be so unstable [as a race].

B: How have you within the recent years, how have you politically seen involvement in the community having an impact?

M: I feel that, we have done a tremendous contribution, and when I say we, I say a group that I am involved with, including my sister. We have registered and educated thousands, thousands of Puerto Ricans and Latinos. In the political process, we have registered so they can participate in the political process. So, I find it an accomplishment is that not only the way they register them, but we take time to educate them [and hundreds of politicians have benefited from this labor].

B: About their?

M: About their rights as a voter. Their rights for them to seek office. So, we‘ve done a lot. We’ve done thousands. B: Have you felt women have become more active because they see at the forefront, do they see you as a kind of person to open doors not only for Puerto

Ricans, but particularly women.

M: Well, I don’t know, if I am cause for them to be active because they see me.

I am not going to take credit for that, but they’ve seen a group of us moving about to be noticed by the larger community. So, I don’t know if that is the reason why this particular individual decided to go on, I can’t say that, I don’t know. Certainly, it was something. Something possible.

B: I know with you being one of the founding members of FLECHAS, how have you seen the younger generation take on the mission of FLECHAS and how do you yourself continue to preserve you Afro-Puerto Rican culture today?

M: As a founder of FLECHAS, founder and former organizer, I see my role as organizing. Plant the seed, nurture the seed with water, and when it starts coming up, you move on. That’s what I do. As a founder of FLECHAS, we have trained people to take over FLECHAS because we don’t want, the founders, we don’t want to stay there. We want to move on. So, we found the people who we’ve trained are doing an excellent job and now their kids in FLECHAS growing up and picking up and learning. So, that doesn’t stay with one person, it keeps moving on. We entrust people with the FLECHAS administration, hoping that they see it is not their stuff, but also the community. You are an integral part of it, you don’t own it. You are to deliver that to the community.

That is the way we see ourselves. If somebody want to come in and wants to become for this coordinator for that, go ahead. If we see that they are changing the mission…

B: That’s another thing, can you explain the mission of FLECHAS?

M: The mission of FLECHAS is to promote, to preserve, and share the Puerto

Rican culture, focusing on the African experience, the African influence in

Puerto Rico. Why that? Because where we are from, and that’s the influence that has been put under the rug for years, and years, and years. It’s good to know how to play the guitar and the castanets, the Flamingo, that’s beautiful, that is part of our rich culture, but it doesn’t stop there. Kids needs to know why you have course hair, why your nose is wider than Carmen’s or whoever, so we focus on that. We said, “Oh by the way this is also part of your culture.”

This is a way you are like that. So, the mission is make sure that we promote and preserve the culture, the three cultures. We call ourselves a Puerto Rican expression of three cultures and we talk about the three to our kids. Kevin is coordinator of the Fiestas, but we have other people who contribute much. We have our own historian, Raul Avila, who has a beautiful description of the three cultures, so he is available for that particular aspect. So, everyone in FLECHAS has their role, and some of them are not as active as they are because whenever you have someone who want to demonstrate how to do it. We give full range, we give that person the opportunity, [if we feel the] mission is changing or things are changed the Afro-Puerto Rican experience, then we come back, the founders will come back. We said, “Wait a minute something [is not right.” But,] so far so good. Kevin is doing a wonderful job, so are the others who have different roles in the organization.

B: How has the New Haven community responded to FLECHAS, or even the

Connecticut received in the community?

M: Well when we started there were little activities about things Afro-Puerto

Rico, now 2005 everyone wants to have a portion of that aspect. So, when you measure success, you see it in college, in schools, in museums, libraries. You see it, our [Loiceño], or Afro-Puerto Rican culture being displayed and everyone wants to do activities and they want to include a little bit of the Fiesta’s tradition. That to me is an accomplishment and a success. That people are now

[more into] the African influence in Puerto Rico. I think we did a wonderful job.

B: One of my last questions, is how do you want to be remembered.

M: That’s interesting, because at age sixty, I was saying, “How do I want to be remembered?” Well I think I want to be remembered as a contributor, as one of the soldiers of the Puerto Rican community. Not a hero, but one of the soldiers. Because we work like a co-op. We work for FLECHAS a co-op. We are all Indians, there is no chief. I want to be remembered as a good soldier as someone that did not give up. I don’t know what it means to give up. I wish I knew how to give up because it not good sometimes. Because I have to do it, I have to do it, and like my tongue is about two yards long, “I have to do it!” In everything, everything, and I say, “I am so happy that I am trying to live a good, long, abiding life, as a person, because otherwise I would have been killed by now.” Because see I start something and I have to do finish. It is not an obsession, but it is like deep inside, it is my obligation, I have to finish, I have to finish. We don’t know how to give up. My sister is worst; my sister is a bad example for me, [in that sense] she is like that too, she doesn’t give up.

B: But look how you have impacted so many people. Look how I got to you.

[Laugh]

M: The people that join us, we give them a warning. My sisters says, “Sin o nada” Do you know what that means?

B: ALL OR NOTHING?

M All or nothing!!!

B: One of the last things, I want to do I got this book, I have been researching for a long time, most of the semester, looking at the African influence on

Puerto Rican culture. And it’s been so difficult to find material on it. Because like you said, people don’t talk about it, but I found this book. It talks about it, it’s all in Spanish, and I don’t read Spanish very well. I know how to speak it, but I don’t read it really well. It’s called, Las Tercera but…

M: I got that book, Las Tercera Raices right?

B: Right, last night I could not put it down, I was just thumbing through it. I wanted to ask you, when you…

M: Is that in Spanish? I forgot.

B: Yes, all in Spanish.

M: I donated that book to FLECHAS. I went to Puerto Rico in ’99 AND I saw a whole bunch of beautiful books. I purchased it and I donated them to FLECHAS saying, this has to be in the archives. B: So you have an archive in FLECHAS??

M: Oh yeah, we are in the process of moving because the house we where occupying they are going to renovated it. So, we have to put things in boxes because we might stay there. I am fighting so that they can keep us in there.

We joined forces with an organization called Fair Haven Development

Corporation, which I was one of the founders also. It is a housing agency and they are renovating this old, Victorian house. We were occupying the second floor and the basement, but I am making recommendations that they keep

FLEACHAS there.

B: Because I am really interested, I have been on the website…

M: But there are things, but you have not found things in English?

B: It has been vary hard.

M: Oh, I have somethings, oh God I hope they have…. Let me see. The women on the top cover with the hands like that, she is from Pounce.[Referring to a picture of a Puerto Rican woman of African descent in the book, Las Tercera

Raices].

B: Ok!

M: My friends I have not see it in so long. They came here to work for me…I hope they haven’t moved…have you seen videos?

B: I know I haven’t seen anything. I was though if it was possible to visit

FLECHAS and see some of the archive you have just to get an understanding.

M: This book, Growing Up Puerto Rican would be worth your while.

B: Growing up Puerto Rican? M: You can borrow it as long as you bring it back, because I don’t think you will have time to…

B: Also, if it is even possible to setup a time with Raul Avila?

M: Oh you need to meet Raul. You cannot do it, Raul and I grew up in New

Haven. He is [somewhat a] FLECHAS product, you remember when I was talking about children, he and sister was. They became aquatinted with

FLECHAS when they were like eighteen or nineteen years old. I will give you his number.

B: These are traditional masks of Loiza[Pointing to the masks on the walls].

Why are masks so important, the coloring?

M: It is funny, we grew up, you know how kids are afraid of things, we grew up not being afraid of this mask. Usually, if you are from a religion, like the

Pentecostal religion, [they tell you these are all] mask of the Devil. But in our minds, they are festival masks. Growing up with this mask, “Oh poor Las

Vejigantes de la Fiestas?” Nothing else, nothing more, never comparing this masks with the Devil’s masks until, believe it or not, until I came to the United

States. Isn’t that something?

M: The festival mask, it does have a meaning, like in African this mask over here, represent harvest. They use this mask when they are harvesting. But then we don’t have the meaning is a festival mask. But a lot of people, have given it many labels like “Oh mascara de Diablo”

B: What about this statue?[Pointing to Catholic statues in the book, Las

Terceras Raices] M: That is a Catholic statue, I don’t know what it is, but it is the virgin of something. It looks like is more, maybe of children. The virgin of the Three

Kings, I am not familiar with that, but a lot of these images they use them in the spiritualism, Santeria, that’s most in Cuba. They use a lot of religious figures like that, but that particular one, “The Virgin of the Three Kings: made a carver, a Puerto Rican carver. He represents of the three kings, not representing anything other than the Catholic religion. I never seen it before, but I can tell you about him because he is a santero, a carver, he carves saints.

We were going to bring him one year, we were bring him over to the Fiestas.

We bringing a lot of crafters that come from Puerto Rico, so they can display, do workshops, and sell their stuff.

B: So, with the Fiestas, it focuses heavily on the arts?

M: Arts and crafts, cooking, a lot of different dishes both including American and a lot of groups singing and dancing. So, it a mixture like I was telling you, the Fiestas of St. James in Spain you compare with Fiestas of St. James in Loiza is totally different.

B: How does it, the one in Loiza compare with the one here?

M: In New Haven? It is almost the same with the expectation that we only

[celebrate it] do it for three days. The way the used to do over a hundred years ago was three day only. We do it in three day, the procession of the Saints, we haven’t been able to successfully do a good procession of the Saints. The three

Saints. We do one. Saint of the women marches that‘s the only one we do now.

But we have to do [all three], Saint of the children, women and men. A big difference is that in Loiza, you don’t have to really engage people to participate, people participate widely. In here[United States], you have to engage people, you have to make costumes so people will dress up. Over there[Loiza], people made costumes, at a certain time they are already choosing what fabrics they want fabrics they are gonna use. They do their own. They are self-motivated. Over here, you have to engage people, so that they can become more active.

B: Do you feel you that it is due to their acceptance towards American culture?

M:I think so, my mentor who [was a master] mask maker in Loiza, said to me when he came to visit me in [1978], “Don’t expect this evolution overnight.

This is going to take a long, long, long slow process. Trying to do something that people that left the island, when they are here, they [look at it as] something that is holding their progress. Even though it is not like that, they will see it like that. If you don’t have a lot of participation, then just keep going.” In other words don’t be scared. So, that’s a big thing. People here don’t get as engaged as people in Loiza. You have to kind of push the envelope more. It took Loiza some thirty years to actually get fully get engaged, so how many years 28 years we have a couple of more years.[Laugh]

B: Well I thank you so much. This is definitely a mark in history of getting your story, and your thoughts on coming to America, doing what you do, carrying your cultures, sticking to your culture. So, I thank you for participating.

M: Well I thank you taking an interest in something that someday. You know, someday, my dream is that someday Fiestas de Loiza in the United States will have the same appeal as Saint Patrick’s Day. You’ll see it in every store, you see green, green, green. One day you are going to see masks in every store, and people getting ready with customs and you can go to certain places and purchase the costumes. That is my dream.

B: Well, hold fast to it.