Information Systems Vs. Computer Science

Information Systems vs. Computer Science Robert C. Nickerson San Francisco State University [email protected]

This document contains the responses to a question sent to the ISWorld list in October 2001 requesting sources of information that describe information systems and how it differs from computer science. The purpose was to find a simple but authoritative article that could be given to our Dean. Thirty-seven responses were received. They are given below in chronological order of receipt. Thank you to all who responded.

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Hi Robert,

The easiest, one-sentence, answer that I could think of, back when we were in the doctoral program had to explain IS "to your grandmother", was:

"CS folks work for IS people".

Probably not exactly what you were looking for, but maybe it helps.

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Hi Robert,

When I was at Saint Louis University there was a move to combine the CS and CIS programs (and every other class that "used computers.") One of the CS profs and I got together and drafted a report, which has since vanished into the one of my hard drive black holes. However, I did set up a web page based on an excerpt of that report which can be found at http://cob.isu.edu/parkerkr/is_vs_cs.htm. I hope it helps.

Kevin Parker

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Yours is not the only Dean to have that problem. Information systems focusses more on applications of CS solutions to solve business problems and is a study of institutions and markets as well as systems. Others will wax eloquent on that subject so I won't go any further.

Until John Leslie King became a Dean at Michigan, I believe there was not a single business school Dean in the US who had a degree in IS or any significant understanding of it. There are past ISWorld conversations on the issue of legitimacy and the history of the field being under the auspices of some other department, sometimes Computer Science, but more often Accounting or Operations Research. Library Science is another big sister.

You might consider yourself fortunate that your Dean confused IS/IT with CS (although if his expectation remains fixed that could be a problem). Some places confuse IS with technical skills training, ie community college stuff, how to use common Office applications and so forth.

A serious problem is that Deans can often not identify an IS journal nor recognize that IS encompasses a wide range of regular business, operations research, social science and even psychological research.

I suggest you arrange a conversation between your Dean and John King, show him MISQ and otherwise provide him with sample materials from research in the leading journals in the profession. He really should be willing to take the time to figure this out.

Eleanor

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IS is a business oriented discipline, while CS is an engineering or science oriented discipline.

There might be some parallels between Math and Accounting. Both deal with numbers, but one is science theory based and the other more applied.

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Robert, don't you have a syllabus? A few years ago, we convinced our Dean to institute a computer proficiency exam, with a remedial course for those who can't pass it. This got us out of the business of teaching the so-called "integrated" course with lab that generally is no fun for either students or instructors. Our management-oriented IS course is now in the Junior-level core.

Information Systems is, to us, a management discipline. Our majors learn how to help non-specialists leverage technology to the advantage of their organization. They also learn how to manage the information resource. We parallel CS in only two subjects: database and networking. We do this because the CS courses concentrate on the technical aspects of *writing the code to build a database from scratch* and *the technical aspects of designing network hardware and software*. Our courses deal with database administration and network management. They are as different from CS as marketing is from commercial art.

Cheers, Roy

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Perhaps a quote from _The Spectator_ about high school education would help:

"No one who leaves education now will find themselves with the scaffolding of understanding which would enable them to acquire another language with less effort; not many, it seems, are able to write their own language in any manner other than warbling their native woodnotes wild. Without that knowledge, which once was systematic and not anecdotal, which was abstract and not what our educators so fatuously call 'practical', children are crippled. An education that drills children in the structure of a language will produce adults who are able to teach themselves how to send emails in an hour, or to speak an unfamiliar language in three months. One that aims only to teach them to learn how to surf the Web is going to produce an ignorant underclass. "

Philip Hensher, _What do they know of English_. The Spectator, 17 February 2001.

-Haim Kilov Chief Architect, Business Modeling Financial Systems Architects [email protected]

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I always explain it this way. CS is about making better technology, IS is about applying that great technology to business problems. Pointing the mouse is technical school stuff!

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Robert, Please consider the curricula guidelines (IS and CS programs at various levels) by the ACM at http://www.acm.org/education/curricula.html. There are clear distinctions between the programs as evidenced by individual course content and overall emphasis. This should give you a reputable reference. Good luck. Nancy Lightner ------Nancy J. Lightner, Ph.D. University of South Carolina Department of Management Science 1705 College Ave. Columbia, SC 29208 Tel: (803) 777-6495 Fax: (803) 777-6876 Email: [email protected]

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Hi Rob: You might also consider soliciting info from the people who hire CIS and CS graduates, to get an outside perspective on this.

Best regards,

Ralph Westfall California Polytechnic University, Pomona Website Templates to Showcase Your IS Research http://www.csupomona.edu/~rdwestfall/ais/

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If you have anyone in your school has a copy of my textbook Systems Architecture (Course Technology ISBN 0-619-03418-1) you might look at pp. 9-12. The content isn't directly on point, but it may help.

------Stephen Burd Anderson Schools of Management University of New Mexico Albuquerque, NM 87131 505-277-6418 (voice) 505-277-7108 (fax) [email protected] http://averia.mgt.unm.edu

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Rob, Based on your description of your Dean's understanding of IS, it may be apt to say Dean's can count if they can't read.

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I think this may be a problem related to educating a Dean than the differences between IS and CS since clearly he does not think that introductory IS course is CS either.

I would be interested in knowing the responses you receive. I recall there was a discussion on this topic sometime ago and responses may be posted on the ISWORLD archives.

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Rob. It's been apparent to me for a long time (having been one of only 4 IS people in a largish CS department), that computer scientists generally believe information systems to be a sub-set of computer science. Actually I rather believe the opposite to be the case - computer science might rightly be claimed to be a sub-set of information systems and its associated disciplines. Computer science has been around for a few decades at best. Information systems on the other hand have been around since 'mankind' has been carving maps onto bones and illustrating cave walls with stories of hunting and other activities important to the development and preservation of life and cultures. Although technologies have changed over the intervening few tens of thousands of years, latterly what we now refer to as computing / communications technologies have been adopted as tools to help us gather, store, manipulate and communicate 'information' arguably more efficiently than we have before (but that might be debatable!). I'm inclined when faced with such arguments from 'computer scientists' to ask them to sharpen my pencils! Best wishes Tom McMaster

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Boy did your email ring a chord with me. We used to have a dean that always said "Yes I think IS is critically important to the business school." But every year he made us justify our existence in the business school. He would imply "We already have a CS degree at the university. Why should we have IS?" And he was deathly afraid to let us have any "technical classes." (He also had his secretary read is email for him.)

Fortunately for us, he has been kicked upstairs and we are in a much more friendly environment now.

However, even today, there is a lot of confusion about just what IS is. Many people in business do not distinguish between "technology" and "systems." We have to keep educating them. Technology is stuff like MS Office, and how to use some simple tools. If that was all we taught, then, yes students could test out of it. However, "systems" has an entire body of knowledge and skill set (problem solving being one of the most critical). They cannot "test" out of that.

We have done lots of things to strengthen our position, (and need for adequate systems courses.) Here are a few:

1. Get feedback from our recruiters. They are always wanting more "thinking, logic, problem solving skills" in addition to fundamental knowledge in programming, development, etc.

2. Compare your program with others around the nation. We did that, and it has helped us not only with the deans office, but also at the administration level (We found we had 54 hours of business classes and only 18 hours of systems classes. We were at the bottom of the pile with systems classes. We needed a more balanced program -- less business and more systems.)

3. Look at the professional organizations. They describe the "body of knowledge" for an IS professional. That is also very convincing that systems is a real body of knowledge and not just how to click on a mouse. We have played that real heavily. IS does has its own body of knowledge that does include business competencies and system competencies.

4. Keep educating (every chance you get) all the faculty in the business school the difference between technology and systems and that there is a body of knowledge that needs to be taught.

5. If you want, you could also get the recommendation for undergraduate curriculum for CS and compare the two. It becomes obvious when you look at the skill set required. Yes there is some overlap in programming, but there is also very much different.

I have a attached a Zipped file with several things on it. It has the IS curriculum models. Read about the first 20 pages of the IS'97 one. It has a list of competencies that are important for IS professionals. It has a paper with our arguments to get our own degree (we now have an "emphasis" in the business degree, which does not give us enough flexibility). It has a couple of other articles that may be helpful.

Good luck. I hope this helps. I would be interested to know how it goes. Your problem may not be the same as ours, so these documents may not be what you need. Feel free to use what you can.

Bob Jackson

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I don't have any references off the top of my head, but I remember Sal March giving a keynote at ER2000 where he spoke about the difference between the two (CS being more like engineering, IS more like science). My view (as a Computer Scientist working in an Information Systems department) is similar to Sal's. CS is about building algorithms. IS is about applying information technology in a business context.

It's a continual battle to get people to see the difference.

Good luck!

Cheers,

-- Stephen W. Liddle, Ph.D. ([email protected]) Grant and David Fellow School of Accountancy and Information Systems Marriott School, Brigham Young University 585 TNRB, P.O. Box 23087, Provo, UT 84602-3087 Office: 801-378-8792 Fax: 801-378-5933 marriottschool.byu.edu/emp/swl www.deg.byu.edu

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Dear Robert,

Some time ago, I posted a message asking for the difference between IS, CS, .. disciplines. Interestingly, I found your previous survey amongst the responses. I am glad that we share similar interests.

The responses to my question are available at: http://www.deakin.edu.au/~lemai.n/Discussions/Definitions. htm

Hope you find useful information there.

Best wishes,

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IS is about people in groups aided by technology. First year cousres need to teach systems thinking (boundary, desiners and participants purpose, realtionships and over time issues) applied to complex social issues like organsaitional cahnge. See Keen, Checkland, Mitroff, Mason, Linstone and Ulrich mike

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Rob, Thought examples from experience in both IS and CS might be helpful. Regarding Intro to IS competency, some schools have both a classroom and lab component. For one school I know of, the lab component (computer competency) might be waived by passing the appropriate number and level of MOUS certification exams. The classroom portion (IS), where various individual to global aspects of information flow are discussed, cannot be waived. Another school I know of has a comprehensive waiver exam for the entire course, both lab and classroom. CS is more oriented towards theoretical and programming detail and is in a different department. Hope this is of some use. Good Luck. Regards, Dorrie DeLuca

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Check out our page http://www.umsl.edu/divisions/business/mis/misvscsc.html which compares the two. vicki

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope that the attachment may help.

We face similar crises however with the computer science faculty members. Simply they want to convert our MIS program which is based on the IRMA curriculum model into another computer science program. And since they are 'the computer people' they've been empowered to intrude on our program and mutilate it with their biased perspective.

My regards Mohamed

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You might want to try the following as I think it makes some useful points and was part the UK debate on what IS means...

Frank Land writing in the UKAIS Newsletter 5, 4, Jan 2000 On the subject of the definition of the Information Systems Domain.

'We need to understand how data, information and knowledge can be and is modelled, stored, managed, processed and disseminated in human activity systems, which include formal designed information systems and informal undesigned systems. (Note a study which is confined to computer based systems will miss important components of real world information systems, including the human participants who also store information and are the prime generators of understanding).

We need to stress the importance and relevance in studying information systems of misinformation, deliberate and accidental, and propaganda. We need to note that the use of information is instrumental. The definition of information systems appears to have as an underlying belief that information systems in some sense represent the truth about the real world, even if it is accepted that different perspectives may yield different versions of the truth.

(Topics to be studied should include): models of human information processing, cognitive models, tacit knowledge, the role of emotion; formal and informal systems, designed and undesigned (often emergent) systems; information in the real world, propaganda, advertising, PR, spin doctoring as well as more conventional roles of information.

Information and information systems are used in diverse ways in any organisation. information systems support the manifold information using activities of an organisation . Of these decision-making is important but not necessarily the central function of an information system. The systems designer has to understand what constitutes information relevant and significant to satisfy and enable the information using activity to fulfil their objectives.'

--- Hope this helps. Elayne Coakes

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Prof. Nickerson -

This sounds like a serious case; I'm not sure anything short of a long-term brainwashing will help! (By the way, it is my belief that this is an extremely common problem).

You might find this paper of mine helpful - "A Comparative Analysis of the Topic Areas of Computer Science, Software Engineering, and Information Systems," Journal of Systems and Software, Nov. 1992.

Also, some colleagues and I are working on a comparison of the RESEARCH areas of Computer Science, Software Engineering, and Information Systems. That paper isn't ready for public consumption yet, but let us know if you are interested, and we can put you on a list for later distribution. (Just to give you a heads up on its contents, the research differences are VERY noticeable, and the fields are quite distinct).

Robert L. Glass

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This has been a continual thorn and education process for me for thirty years. Good luck!

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Hi there, we have the same problem. So much so that I wrote a short introduction for management enlightenment. It is attached.

(Some years ago a zealous cost cutting administrator seriously suggested closing the IS teaching faculty and instead giving each student a half day course at the local computer training outfit. Same assumption that we spent three years teaching them advanced word processing.)

Dave Mason

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In Sweden, we recently performed an evaluation of computer science. However, as the evaluation was performed, it was discovered that few departments at universities in Sweden have a pure computer science perspective. Instead, most departments have included more or less parts from information systems. The report is found at http://www.hsv.se/publikationer/rapporter/pdf/HsV200113R.pdf. Unfortunately, it is in Swedish. However, if you contact people at www.hsv.se, they may give you the names of the professors that performed the study (one from Norway and one from Denmark). Since they did this evaluation, they may have references to IS vs CS.

/Jonas

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I would like to suggest,Cougar, D., Davis, B., Dologite, D. Feinstein, D., IS '95: Guideline for undergraduate IS curriculum,Sep 1995, MIS Quarterly. I'm reading this article now and it includes not only a collaborative effort to provide IS curriculum but also outlines differences between information systems, computer science, and software engineering. Good Luck!

Vicki N. Webster Division of Accounting /Computer Information Systems Delta State University Box 3223 Cleveland, MS 38733 (601)846-4423

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Hey Robert,

I have a nice presentation that Blake and I gave to Microsoft Research a year ago. I have this presentation on a different PC, but will send later today or tomorrow. I hope you find it useful.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert: - Been there, done that ... Try explaining that IS is how CS is applied. e.g. What information *systems* do (in business organizations), how (and what) *information* supports business organizations and how we select among competing *technologies*. In other words, the convergence of I, S & T, rather than just T on its own.

Cheers, Susan Gasson

------Dr Susan Gasson Assistant Professor College of Information Science & Technology Drexel University, Philadelphia PA 19104-2875

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Hi Rob,

I hope you got some good references. One thing that comes to mind is an editorial description by Allen Lee in MISQ about a year or two ago that covers his perspective of IS research.

Would a presentation of IS research help (see attached file)? I'm currently on vacation in San Francisco for the week, but could possibly do a research talk Thursday (or possibly Friday). If interested let me know. I can also explain how the organizational/managerial component of IS is so key - that it represents one of the most important aspects among recruiters where I am in Houston. wynne

------Dr. Wynne W. Chin Bauer Faculty Fellow Department of Decision and Information Sciences C.T. Bauer College of Business 334 Melcher Hall room 280D University of Houston Houston, Texas 77204-6282 email: [email protected] fax: 713-743-4940 ------>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You might check the CRA's annual report for 1999. In Table 2-1, the authors describe a fairly complete spectrum of IT disciplines, including computer science and information systems. Here is the location: http://www.cra.org/reports/wits/it_worker_shortage_book.pdf MM t Nickerson 10/05/01 02:59P

Martha Edwards Myers, Ph.D., Professor Dept of Computer Science & Information Systems Kennesaw State University 1000 Chastain Road Kennesaw, GA 30144 Phone 770 423 6378 FAX 770 423 6731 Dept Office 770 423 6005 [email protected] science.kennesaw.edu/~mmyersM

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The best analogy I've heard is from my colleague here at WSU, Joe Valacich. I'll try to paraphrase....

MIS is to Computer Science what Pharmacology is to Chemistry. Pharmacology is the study of chemicals and how they react with the body. MIS is the examination of computer based information systems, and how they react with individuals and organizations.

This obviously doesn't cover it all, but it is a handy visualization for many. I have a collegue who I'm carboning on this (Rich Orwig) who has done some research on MIS as a discipline, and he may be helpful as well.

Mark ______Mark A. Fuller, Ph.D. Associate Professor in MIS College of Business and Economics, Washington State University Todd 240F, Box 644729, Pullman, WA 99164-4729 Phone (509) 335-7111 Fax (509) 335-4275 Email: [email protected] Web: http://www.cbe.wsu.edu/~fuller ______

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I would very much like to see the responses to this query.

Mark Eisner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dear Rob:

My first recommendation is a section in "IS'97: Model Curriculum and Guidelines for Undergraduate Degree Programs in IS" titled "IS as a Field of Academic Study". The AIS web page has a linkage to IS'97 file.

Regards, Ryu

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Hello,

I am also interested in the responses. Do you intend to publish a summary...?

Thank you,

Ludger Fiege

------Ludger Fiege [email protected] TU Darmstadt Tel: (+49) 6151 / 16-6705 Wilhelminenstr. 7 Fax: (+49) 6151 / 16-6707 D-64283 Darmstadt, Germany Http://www.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de/GK

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I've edited a short piece that is posted at : http://www.ltugcom.org/ltu/bsit/compare.html

It was actually a collaboration of our CS, CE and IS faculties.

Thanks – Andy

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Hi Robert,

I get this question all the time, especially from parents and new students trying to make career choices. I tell anyone who asks my perspective on the difference between IS and CS. So here goes:

Computer Science studies how to enhance the performance and efficiency of information technology. Information Systems studies how to enhance busines performance and efficiency using technology. The IS degree gives students a thorough background in how to identify and solve to business problems. CS students, on the other hand, get poor training in understanding how businesses work. IS students can apply their knowledge in many areas of business, (finance, HR, Marketing) whereas CS students must find jobs primarily in IS-related areas (hardware mfg, software houses and IS departments).

I would say the biggest difference between them is really the conceptual training. For example, in teaching database, IS students would learn how to gather and analyze user requirements to create a conceptual design. The concentration is on analysis and design, not the actual building of the database. CS students spend the majority of their time with the physical design of the database, enhancing queries and improving performance.

While students need hands-on training in software, skipping introductory courses in IS leaves many without the conceptual knowledge they need to succeed in business. I had a student try to bypass my course in database management systems purely because he had used Access before. I refused. He could build databases alright, he just didn't know why they were built that way. He'd be okay if someone told him exactly what to do, but put him in charge of a database project- no way! Teaching students to use a single package also makes no sense when the technology could become obsolete in less than a year. Knowing what software is capable of, that's the ticket!

I am sure you are equally bothered by this misunderstanding. I hope the Dean will listen to what others have to say on this issue. Good luck.

Bonnie C Glassberg, Ph. D 342 Upham Hall Miami University/ Ohio [email protected] (513) 529-5923 Office

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Dear Robert,

We're facing the same situation but with much more intensity. We're being alienated and considered unqualified because we adopt the management perspective (SOFT) rather than the technical perspective (HARD) to the study of IT.

It's highly appreciated if you could send me ASAP the responses from the IS World community,

Ra'ed Shams University of Bahrain

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