Tuesday Volume 691 23 March 2021 No. 195

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 23 March 2021 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2021 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 773 23 MARCH 2021 774 House of Commons Queen’s Speech: Employment Legislation Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op): Tuesday 23 March 2021 What the timeframe is for bringing forward the legislative proposals on employment announced in the December The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock 2019 Queen’s Speech. [913786] Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab): What the timeframe is PRAYERS for bringing forward the legislative proposals on employment announced in the December 2019 Queen’s [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Speech. [913790] Virtual participation in proceedings commenced The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial (Order, 4 June and 30 December 2020). Strategy (Kwasi Kwarteng): I am grateful for the opportunity [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] to say here in the House that the Government do intend to bring forward the employment Bill when parliamentary Speaker’s Statement time allows. Mr Speaker: Before we start oral questions, I want to Seema Malhotra [V]: The TUC estimates that 3.6 million inform the House that, at 12 noon, I will be inviting people—one worker in nine—were in insecure work Members and colleagues to join in a one-minute silence ahead of the coronavirus outbreak, leaving them exposed to mark the national day of reflection on the anniversary to massive drops in income or unsafe working conditions. of the first coronavirus lockdown. It was bad then, and it is worse now. The Government have driven the author of their own Taylor review to say in quite extraordinary terms that the Government have Oral Answers to Questions lost their “enthusiasm” for enforcing workers’ rights. With no employment Bill yet on the horizon, is that not the plain truth for all to see? Whose side are the Government on? BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL STRATEGY Kwasi Kwarteng: I will take no lessons from the hon. Lady about workers’ rights and what this Government The Secretary of State was asked— have done over many years to protect workers’ rights. The national living wage is higher than it has ever been TV Advertising Restrictions to Reduce Obesity in this country’s history. We have taken thousands of people out of tax, and I am not going to take any Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con): What discussions lectures from her. he has had with the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care on the effect on businesses of proposed TV Tony Lloyd [V]: If the Secretary of State will not take advertising restrictions to help reduce rates of obesity. lessons from my hon. Friend the Member for Feltham [913785] and Heston (Seema Malhotra), will he take lessons from the TUC, which estimates that fire and rehire is The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial most likely to take place among young people and black Strategy (Kwasi Kwarteng): I assure my hon. Friend that and Asian workers, or will he take lessons from Go I meet regularly with the Secretary of State for Health North West, which sacked its workforce in Greater and Social Care on a range of issues. My Department Manchester, and offered them increased hours of work, has engaged with businesses and colleagues across the loss of sick pay and a reduction in annual pay of country and within Government to ensure that our £2,500? Is that what the Secretary of State wants, to policy is proportionate and achieves the Government’s make Britain the best place in the world for work? desired public health outcomes. Kwasi Kwarteng: I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s Craig Whittaker [V]: I thank my right hon. Friend for question. He will know that I take my relations and my that answer. He may be aware that the scope of products conversations with the TUC extremely seriously. I have captured in this proposal will be very wide indeed, met a number of TUC leaders since taking up the post including kitchen cupboard products such as All-Bran, two months ago, and I am very conscious that fire and HP sauce and cough sweets such as Fisherman’s Friend— rehire as a negotiating tactic is completely unacceptable. products that are unlikely to appeal to children. Given the significant hit to business and UK broadcasters Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab): The Secretary specifically, will he commit to working with the Secretary of State says that he does not take lessons from Labour— of State for Health and Social Care to narrow the scope this is from the man who described the British as of products covered by this proposal? “the worst idlers in the world.” Kwasi Kwarteng: Of course I would be very happy to The Supreme Court ruling that Uber drivers are work closely with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of workers, rejecting the company’s claim that its drivers State for Health and Social Care. As I noted in my are self-employed, sets a precedent for all gig economy initial answer, my Department has worked closely with workers, who will also be entitled to the minimum wage, the Department of Health and Social Care up to this holiday pay and sick pay, but it took Uber drivers point, but I would be happy to hear more from my hon. six long years of legal action to have their rights recognised. Friend about this particularly important issue. The Government must not abandon the 3 million adults 775 Oral Answers 23 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 776 in the UK working in the gig economy to spend years Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP) [V]: I am fighting in the courts. So will the Secretary of State afraid the previous answer simply was not good enough, commit to introducing legislation in this Session of because we cannot have a situation where some businesses Parliament to ensure that all gig economy workers do not have the support that they need while another set receive basic employment rights? of businesses have had absolute certainty since the start of the pandemic—those, of course, being the ones with Kwasi Kwarteng: As I said in response to an earlier links to the Tory party; as we now know, they have had question, we are going to introduce an employment Bill Ministers on speed-dial since day one and even a former not in this Session but when parliamentary time allows. Prime Minister tried to get in on the act. So does the We are also of course considering the effects of this Minister believe her Government have a culture of extremely important Supreme Court ruling and we are covid cronyism at their very , and will she now considering options to improve clarity around employment back an independent investigation into apparent lobbying status. by ? Amanda Solloway: Throughout the covid-19 pandemic, Support for Businesses: Discussions with the Chancellor the Government have supported people and businesses across the . The Budget extends the Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP): What UK coronavirus job retention scheme and the self- recent discussions he has had with the Chancellor of employment income support scheme and extends the the Exchequer on increasing support to businesses affected VAT cut to support tourism, leisure and all the sectors. by the covid-19 outbreak. [913787] People and businesses all over the United Kingdom will benefit and have benefited from the Government’s actions. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Women in Business Energy and Industrial Strategy (Amanda Solloway): My right hon. Friend the Chancellor has extended our Mrs Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): What support measures in the most recent Budget to provide steps his Department is taking to support women in an additional £65 billion. With the new restart grant business. [913789] scheme, the Government will have allocated a total of Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) (Con): What steps £25 billion in business grants. Our restart grants will his Department is taking to support women in business. provide up to £6,000 for non-essential businesses [R] [913797] and up to £18,000 for hospitality, personal care and gyms. This year and next year,we are spending £407 billion The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, to support people and businesses throughout the pandemic. Energy and Industrial Strategy (Amanda Solloway): The Government have taken significant steps to support Chris Stephens [V]: We know that when big business women in businesses. We have launched the Government- is set to fail former Prime Minister David Cameron uses backed Women’s Business Council and published the his hotline to the Chancellor. With 3 million still excluded women in finance charter. The recent Rose review and and the £20 universal credit uplift, furlough and self- report also shows that good progress is being made to employed support ending in September, can the Minister overcome barriers for women entrepreneurs. tell us whether any former Tory leaders have contacted the Department on their behalf, or is it sink or swim for Mrs Latham: The majority of people employed in the the ordinary folk? wedding industry are women. The road map out of lockdown offers very little hope for the wedding industry or the supply chain as couples would rather wait than Amanda Solloway: As I have indicated before, this have only six, 15 or 30 guests. What assurances can my Government have done unprecedented work and one of hon. Friend provide that women in the wedding industry the things we do all the time is speak to stakeholders will receive the support their businesses need to survive and all the people we need to. Think about the money until June 2021, or even beyond? we have invested: £407 billion to support people and businesses throughout the pandemic. Amanda Solloway: I thank my hon. Friend for her great support; I know how much she supports women Darren Jones (Bristol North West) (Lab) [V]: Many entrepreneurs, especially with Derbys Finest. Since March bricks-and-mortar retailers are still desperately concerned 2020, the Government have provided an unprecedented about the build-up of commercial rents during the package of financial support to businesses, including lockdown, including many pubs that are prevented those in the wedding sector. That package of support is from negotiating a rent review due to restrictions in kept under regular review. My colleague the Minister regulation 7 of the pubs code. The recent extension of for Small Business regularly meets the industry-led weddings the ban on commercial evictions is welcome, but when taskforce to understand the impact of covid-19 on will Ministers come forward with a long-term solution businesses in this sector. to commercial rents? Craig Tracey [V]: Research clearly shows that gender- diverse boards perform better on every single measure, Amanda Solloway: I thank the hon. Member for the so it stands to reason that diversity across the workforce question. One of the things we are doing is working can only be a benefit. Will the Minister confirm what with the stakeholders. We have done a review of the pub steps the Government are taking to encourage more code and we will be reporting on that situation soon, women into business, particularly in areas such as but we have extended the moratorium and we will be engineering and science, in which they are traditionally looking into this as well. under-represented? 777 Oral Answers 23 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 778

Amanda Solloway: My hon. Friend makes a really acceptable that, even now, people are still confused important point, and I thank him for his tireless work about the guidance regarding the wedding industry— to champion women, especially in his role as chair of whether to have weddings; what sort of numbers there the all-party parliamentary group on women and enterprise. should be—and that the guidelines that have been issued I sincerely thank him for that. FTSE companies have are very vague and confused? Does he accept that it is indeed made great progress, and we have seen a more unacceptable that people are still asking for clarity at than 60% increase in the number of women on boards this stage, bearing in mind that the wedding season is in the past six years. The Government recognise that the about to start? science, technology, engineering and maths workforce is vital to increasing the UK’s productivity and economic : Having dealt with the UK weddings growth, and I am really pleased that Government-funded taskforce, I understand the need to plan. We have programmes such as the STEM ambassador programme published the guidance for ceremonies, and receptions and the CREST awards are successfully encouraging will follow. Receptions from 12 April will be outdoor young women into STEM roles. receptions. I am pleased that the UK weddings taskforce pushed us so that we were able to include dedicated Vaccine Taskforce wedding venues in that guidance. John Spellar (Warley) (Lab): What lessons have been (Kensington) (Con): What steps his learned from the operation of the vaccine taskforce. Department is taking to support the wedding industry. [913791] [913793] The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Strategy (Kwasi Kwarteng): The vaccine taskforce has Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully): The Chancellor successfully brought together the collective effort of announced in his Budget a raft of new measures to help Government, academia and industry behind a single to support businesses, including those in the wedding purpose and mission. Its hard work and focus, in sector. These include an extension to the furlough and partnership with the NHS and other organisations, self-employment income support schemes and further helped the UK to become the first country to procure, grants for business. authorise and deploy the Pfizer-BioNTech and - AstraZeneca vaccines. As I speak, over 30 million Felicity Buchan: The wedding industry has suffered individuals across the UK have now received their first disproportionately during the last year and I am concerned dose. that the anomalies will continue. For instance, if we look at phase 3—from 17 May—we see that a venue in John Spellar: As the Secretary of State has rightly my constituency, such as Kensington Palace Pavilion, acknowledged, under his Department’s authorisation will be able to open to a music event at 50% capacity, the vaccine taskforce has performed brilliantly, but it which is 200 people, with alcohol, but a wedding the has needed a scientific and industrial base that was next day in exactly the same venue will be able to host already there to work with. As he knows, there are some only 30 people. Can my hon. Friend explain that anomaly? concerns about dependency on an overseas supply chain that may be interrupted. As the new Secretary of State, Paul Scully: My hon. Friend has been a formidable will he make a name for himself by challenging the dead champion for businesses in her area, including weddings, hand of Treasury dogma and ensuring that Government personal care and hospitality, especially. The pace and contracts and projects across the board put British sequencing of reopening in the road map have been industry first at last? informed by the latest scientific evidence from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies in its working groups. Kwasi Kwarteng: I am very pleased that the right hon. Weddings, which bring family and friends together, with Gentleman is so enthusiastic about our British ingenuity their interaction, are particularly vulnerable to the spread and hard work. I and my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of covid-19. of the Exchequer are always working extremely hard and are very focused on trying to promote innovation in Rural Electricity Grid Investment: Electric Vehicles this country in our research and development base. Covid-19: Wedding Industry Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind): What recent discussions he has had with electricity (Bolton South East) (Lab): What network distribution operators on the adequacy of recent assessment he has made of the effect of the investment in rural electricity grids to meet potential covid-19 outbreak on the wedding industry. [913792] demand as a result of a transition to electric vehicles. [913795] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully): My officials The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth and I regularly meet the industry-led weddings taskforce, (Anne-Marie Trevelyan): Distribution network operators established to represent all parts of the UK wedding are incentivised to ensure adequate investment in electricity sector, to understand the impact of the pandemic on networks under the framework set by jobs and businesses. regulator, Ofgem. My officials regularly meet distribution network operators to discuss impacts of the electric Yasmin Qureshi [V]: The Minister knows that businesses vehicle transition, including in rural areas. in the wedding industry have faced an incredibly difficult year, and they have not had much financial help. He Jonathan Edwards [V]: Diolch, Mr Speaker. Achieving also knows that this is a very seasonal industry, and ’s ambitious climate targets would require a rapid confidence is at an all-time low. Does he think it is transition to electric vehicles, yet currently just 0.17% of 779 Oral Answers 23 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 780 vehicles used in Wales are electric. One of the biggest “We want changes to be made with us, not to us.” barriers to the transition is grid capacity, particularly in Seeing as this Government promised to protect and rural areas. Will the Minister outline how she will enhance workers’ rights when we left the EU, will the future-proof the grid in Wales, especially after the concerns Minister confirm how many employers in receipt of expressed by the former deputy national security adviser, coronavirus job retention scheme payments have adopted Paddy McGuinness, that the integrated review published fire and rehire tactics, and will she now commit to last week failed to focus on the dangers that a future outlawing this practice once and for all? cyber-attack on the grid would pose as the EV transition accelerates? Amanda Solloway: Just to reiterate, we have been holding clear consultations with a group of stakeholders Anne-Marie Trevelyan: The majority of the UK and has been conducting this for us. We will be Government’s infrastructure grant schemes are available republishing the report in due course. in Wales, and we are working with the to ensure that there are strong and co-ordinated plans Energy Efficiency in Homes in place to support the roll-out of charging infrastructure. Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): What We recognise the particular challenges that some rural plans his Department has to help improve energy efficiency areas may face across the UK, such as longer distances in homes. [913798] between substations, and Ofgem has set up a funding framework to ensure that our electricity network supports Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): our net zero ambitions. What long-term plans he has to help make homes more energy-efficient. [913803] Dismiss and Re-engage Tactics in Negotiations The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth Kate Osborne (Jarrow) (Lab): What recent discussions (Anne-Marie Trevelyan): The Government are committed he has had with (a) employers and (b) trade unions on to getting as many homes as possible to EPC band C by the use of dismiss and re-engage tactics in negotiations 2035, where cost-effective, practical and affordable. We with employees. [913796] are doing this through setting long-term minimum Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): What recent standards, providing financial support where it is needed discussions he has had with (a) employers and (b) trade most, and getting the market conditions right to support unions on the use of dismiss and re-engage tactics in action. negotiations with employees. [913807] Neil Parish [V]: The green homes grant is a scheme The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, that can improve home insulation, cut carbon, save on Energy and Industrial Strategy (Amanda Solloway): We energy bills and create jobs across the country. It needs have been very clear that employers threatening to fire backing, not scrapping, so what plans does the Minister and rehire as a negotiating tactic is completely unacceptable. have to extend and improve the green homes grant, and As we have been concerned by such reports, we engaged how does she see the scheme helping to improve the ACAS to conduct a fact-finding exercise as to how fire efficiency of older, often rural, homes, especially those and rehire has been used. It spoke to a wide range of with solid walls, which use more energy and cost more stakeholders, including businesses and employee to heat? representatives. We are now considering these findings. Anne-Marie Trevelyan: We absolutely recognise that Kate Osborne: The Government have been sitting on older rural properties may be more challenging to improve. the ACAS fire and rehire report now for over a month, That is why we provide an incentive for off-gas homes raising fears that they are trying to bury it because they under the current energy company obligation, and we do not agree with the recommendations. Will the Minister will focus the future home upgrade grant on poorer- tell me when we will get a chance to see what ACAS has performing homes. We also have a range of exemptions to say, and, in the meantime, will she tell us whether under our minimum standard regulations for homes ACAS agrees that the shameful practice of fire and that are too expensive or difficult to improve. This is a rehire is quite simply unacceptable? really important aspect of our net zero challenges, and I look forward to working with my hon. Friend in the Amanda Solloway: As I previously stated, we find months ahead. that fire and rehire is just not acceptable. In fact, the Department engaged ACAS to hold discussions in order Stuart Anderson: The situation regarding covid-19 to generate the evidence that we need. We therefore has had a big impact on the household incomes of need to make sure that we consider all this. There is, of residents in Wolverhampton. What long-term plans course, a degree of confidentiality that we need to bear does my right hon. Friend have to help elderly and in mind as well. ACAS officials shared their findings working-age residents to save money on utility bills and with BEIS officials in February, as the hon. Lady rightly give them access to affordable energy efficiency schemes? said. We are giving this full consideration and will communicate our next steps in due course. Anne-Marie Trevelyan: The Government have invested £500 million in the local authority delivery scheme to Afzal Khan [V]: Fire and rehire is utterly immoral. improve the energy efficiency of low-income households, Members across the House have received many emails helping to reduce fuel poverty for around 50,000 households from desperate constituents who are being subjected to by the end of this year. My hon. Friend is a champion the disgraceful tactic. From British Airways and British for his constituents in Wolverhampton, and I look Gas to Go North West, workers across the country have forward to working with him as we work with those been treated with contempt. One of my constituents communities and households to meet our net zero challenge who was served with a section 188 notice said to me, through home efficiency improvements. 781 Oral Answers 23 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 782

Mr Speaker: I am now going to interrupt the proceedings. disease in the past year. Thank you for your words, We are going to pause questions, and I would like to because it is so important that we are able to hold this invite the House to join me in a moment of reflection. moment together. Today marks one year since the Prime Minister addressed The green homes grant voucher scheme has made the nation and asked us all to stay at home to combat significant strides since its launch in September 2020. the spread of coronavirus. Since then, many thousands We have received more than 90,000 applications and of lives have been lost and the lives of those left behind issued 33,000 vouchers, worth £142 million, and an have been changed forever. Every single one of us has additional £500 million has been given to local authorities been affected. It is right that we pause now, together to improve the energy efficiency of low-income households, with the whole country, and remember those who have helping to reduce fuel poverty for about 50,000 households died and those who are bereaved. Our thoughts and by the end of this year. This is such an important part prayers will always be with those colleagues who worked of the just transition that we want to ensure that we with us in serving this House who also died. They will achieve with net zero. We recognise that the scheme has not be forgotten. faced a number of delivery challenges, as many new It is so important that we do this and that the nation mechanisms do, which has meant it has not delivered at comes together as we now see the green shoots that will the rate or the scale that we had originally hoped it hopefully take us out of this pandemic. Hopefully we would. However, we are working with the scheme will have a world that comes back to all of us. We will administrator to process the backlog of voucher remember the role that Members have played in this applications, streamlining the voucher issuance and House and the way that we have worked together, not redemption process as a top priority. Some delays in only to enable the Government to legislate but to ensure voucher processing are due to our robust fraud and that the Opposition can scrutinise as well. It has been so gaming checks, which we have implemented by learning important for us all to get to this stage, and hopefully from previous schemes. when we get beyond this, we will see a House return. As I say, we will not forget those who have died in this Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con) [V]:May I associate country, but we will also remember those who have died myself, and all those participating in proceedings remotely, serving this House. It is important to us to ensure that with the moment of national reflection that you have they will be remembered, and we will be doing something just led, Mr Speaker? Thank you. Yesterday, my right to remember them at an appropriate stage in the future. hon. Friend will have seen the report published by the The country is united and at this moment, we will take Environmental Audit Committee on the energy efficiency one minute’s silence. I say thanks to those who have of existing homes, in which we highlighted the scale of turned up in the Chamber now, and I know that across the challenge in decarbonising the 19 million homes in the estate people will be recognising this important one this country that account for most of the 20% of UK minute’s silence. Nobody could ever have envisaged the emissions from domestic buildings. Will the Government numbers across the world that would be lost and the commit in the heat and building strategy to a clear sacrifice that this country has made. A big thank you timetable to encourage owners of all tenures of homes also goes to the NHS workers and all those who have to install affordable energy upgrades, in order to meet been involved in making this country tick over, whether our net zero Britain targets? in transport or in shops. It is important to us all. I invite Members to stand for one minute’s silence. Anne-Marie Trevelyan: My right hon. Friend is right that the challenge of making all our homes energy-efficient 12 noon and moving to net zero is enormous. I thank him for his The House observed a minute’s silence. leadership,as Chair of the Environmental Audit Committee, in looking in depth at some of the vital issues, to help us Mr Speaker: Thank you everybody. not only to solve the technical and financial challenges but to encourage our constituents to make changes to Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): May reduce their power and heat usage through efficiency. I say that Opposition Members wish to be strongly We have a strong track record in improving the associated with your words this morning, Mr Speaker, energy performance of our homes over the past decade, and that I am sure that goes for everybody else in the with 40% above energy performance certificate band C Chamber today? —up from only 9% in 2008. We are also funding the The Government’s flagship programme to improve first hydrogen-powered homes in Gateshead and allocating energy efficiency in homes, the green homes grant scheme, more than £500 million this year alone to improve the has produced figures for the latest month: vouchers energy efficiency of 50,000 households in social and applied for—18,526: vouchers issued—1,186; measures local authority housing throughout the UK. installed—99; and, I am not making this up, measures paid for—20. Does the Minister take responsibility for Covid-19: Supply Chain Businesses this catastrophic failure of a scheme? Will she say now whether she intends to extend the programme and roll Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab): What the funding over so that it has a chance to succeed in the plans he has to support supply chain businesses affected end? If she does, will she be sacking the US-based by the covid-19 pandemic. [913799] private consultancy firm she hired to run this awful mess? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Anne-Marie Trevelyan: May I, too, associate myself Energy and Industrial Strategy (Amanda Solloway): At with your words earlier, Mr Speaker? I think we have the Budget, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor announced all, sadly, been touched by the loss of someone, or more an extra £425 million in additional restrictions grant than one person, whom we have known to this dreadful funding to local authorities, which means that more 783 Oral Answers 23 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 784 than £2 billion has been made available to local authorities British Steel Production since November 2020. This discretionary funding enables local authorities to support businesses, including businesses Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab): What his long-term in supply chains that are impacted by restrictions but policy is on support for British steel production. ineligible for other measures. [913801]

Mr Dhesi: Given that the UK has suffered the worst The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial recession of any major economy, businesses in Slough Strategy (Kwasi Kwarteng): I thank the hon. Lady for and throughout our country find themselves in a precarious meeting me on 10 March to discuss this vital issue. It is position. To help them, the Government should have of course a commercially sensitive matter that the brought forward a plan that includes debt restructuring Government are monitoring extremely closely. and a job guarantee for the young. Despite repeated requests, an estimated 3 million people—including taxi Sarah Champion [V]: I thank the Secretary of State drivers, plumbers, other self-employed people and sole for that response, but more than 5,000 workers at Liberty traders—find themselves with absolutely no support at Steel, including 900 in Rotherham, are facing an uncertain all from the Government. What does the Minister say to future following the collapse of Greensill . Will people who have worked hard their entire lives, paid the Secretary of State now commit, as other Governments their taxes and now find themselves and their businesses in Europe have done, to step in, if necessary, to safeguard up against the wall and collapsing, through no fault of this vital strategic industry? their own? Kwasi Kwarteng: The hon. Lady will know that in my Amanda Solloway: Indeed, we do find ourselves in meetings with management and relevant union leaders, unprecedented times, but the Government have been so I have always stressed that the management plans need committed in all the things we have done. We have to be worked through. We are monitoring the situation committed to providing additional support for small extremely closely. The hon. Lady will know that I have a and medium-sized enterprises as restrictions are lifted, direct interest in the future of Liberty Steel. and businesses will continue to benefit from Government- guaranteed finance throughout 2021. On young people, Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op): Does the apprenticeship scheme we are offering is second to the Secretary of State accept that, as well as supporting none. tens of thousands of decent jobs, UK steelmaking capacity is of key strategic importance to our future Paid Neonatal Leave competitiveness and resilience? If he does, is he as concerned as we are about the future of Liberty Steel, and will he ensure that the Government are working Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): What recent now on a with all options on the table, including discussions he has had with Cabinet colleagues on public ownership, should the firm fail to secure finance? bringing forward legislative proposals to introduce paid Or is he ideologically opposed to this, preferring the neonatal leave. [913800] UK Government either to step aside or to spend huge sums to prop up businesses at risk only to sell them off The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, cheap overseas? Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully): I understand how difficult it is for parents whose newborn baby Kwasi Kwarteng: The hon. Lady will know that we needs to spend time in neonatal care, which is why last have a repeated and often stated commitment to year we set out our intention to introduce a new, generous decarbonisation in our industry. It was only last week entitlement to paid leave for those parents. We remain that we published, under the leadership of my right fully committed to doing so and will legislate as part of hon. Friend the Minister for Business, Energy and an employment Bill as soon as parliamentary time Clean Growth, the industrial decarbonisation strategy. allows. She will also appreciate that the steel industry is a vital part of that decarbonisation strategy. Alex Davies-Jones [V]: It has now been more than a year since the Government committed to implementing Horizon Europe paid neonatal leave to support the parents of babies born sick or prematurely, but we are still yet to see any Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP): What progress. Will the Minister confirm exactly when the discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Government plan to bring forward the necessary legislation Exchequer on the funding of the UK associating to to ensure that the new entitlement is available in 2023, Horizon Europe. [913802] as promised in the March 2020 Budget? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Paul Scully: The Government remain committed to Energy and Industrial Strategy (Amanda Solloway): The bringing forward the employment Bill as soon as Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy parliamentary time allows. The delivery of the new regularly speaks to Her Majesty’s Treasury on a range entitlement to neonatal leave and pay will require changes of issues. I am pleased that we are taking part in the to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs’ IT payment Horizon Europe programme; it will bring a huge benefit systems to allow employers to administer statutory to the United Kingdom. We will set out our plans neonatal pay on behalf of the Government, but we are for 2021-22, including Horizon Europe funding, in working towards that goal. due course. 785 Oral Answers 23 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 786

Carol Monaghan [V]: Last week, the Government’s countries to do more to reach their net-zero targets, but integrated review confirmed that there would be a multi-year in order to showcase the genuinely world-leading decisions settlement for UK Research and Innovation. Can the that we have taken to drive our own net zero. Minister confirm that funding for associating to Horizon Europe will be covered separately from this settlement? Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP): My hon. If not, can she explain how funding for Horizon Europe Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan and this multi-year uplifted settlement will be supported? Brown) just mentioned a number of areas where the UK Government can and should invest in Scotland. Amanda Solloway: As I have previously mentioned, But we do not just need cash; we need a level playing the discussions around this are ongoing and the funding field. That is particularly true in relation to the electricity will be announced in due course. I would like to point grid. I am sure that the Minister is aware that a new out to the hon. Lady that we have an ambition to be a renewables project in Scotland will have to pay in excess science superpower and, in fact, we have committed of £4 per unit to access the grid, whereas the renewables £22 billion by 2024-25. project in the south-east of gets paid £1 per Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab) unit to access the very same grid. That is no Union of [V]: Everyone who has had a coronavirus vaccine knows equals. Scotland has the ability to lead Europe in the of the deep sense of gratitude to scientists. In facing the renewables field. Why are the Tories trying to hold us challenge of climate change, future pandemics and back? technological change, we look to science. At the general election, the Prime Minister promised to double science Anne-Marie Trevelyan: Scotland has indeed played spend. Instead, we appear to have a £1 billion cut to the an important part, particularly in the wind development science budget plus a £120 million cut to our overseas sector. The Chancellor’s Budget included £5 million for development science as part of a “new settlement” that the global underwater hub in Aberdeen, £2 million for protects the North sea transition deal and £27 million for the “the most effective research programmes.” Aberdeen energy transition zone. This is just one part of the whole net zero challenge that we are looking to take Can the Minister say which programmes will be cut, on. We look forward to continuing to work with our which scientists will lose their grants, and which institutions Scottish colleagues. will close? The Government who clap the NHS but impose a real-terms pay cut now plan to praise science and cut scientists. Covid-19: Support for Businesses

Amanda Solloway: BEIS regularly has talks with Her Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): What steps Majesty’s Treasury on these issues. Let me reiterate that his Department is taking to support businesses during we plan to be a science superpower by 2024-25, with a the covid-19 outbreak. [913805] £22 billion investment. We also have a Second Reading debate today on a high-risk, high-reward agency. James Daly (Bury North) (Con): What steps his Furthermore, in terms of the spending review, more Department is taking to support businesses during the than £40 billion across Government was spent on science. covid-19 outbreak. [913811] Energy Transition Projects in Scotland Mark Eastwood (Dewsbury) (Con): What steps his Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP): What Department is taking to support businesses during the new support he plans to provide to energy transition covid-19 pandemic. [913814] projects in Scotland. [913804] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully): We have (Anne-Marie Trevelyan): The Chancellor’s Budget recently spent over £352 billion, and have committed £407 billion announced significant investment for energy transition to an unprecedented package of support for businesses, projects in Scotland. We hope to shortly announce the including the job retention scheme, support grants and North sea transition deal, which will play a vital role in Government-backed loans. My right hon. Friend the transitioning the oil and gas industry to low carbon Chancellor of the Exchequer recently presented to alternatives. Parliament his Budget, which sets out the additional £65 billion to support people and businesses. Alan Brown [V]: COP26 will allow Scotland to showcase existingandemergingnet-zerotechnologies,but,policy-wise, we need to see a minimum floor mechanism for pumped Jason McCartney [V]: I very much welcome the restart storage hydro. We need innovation power purchase grants and the sector-specific guidance for weddings as agreements available for wave and tidal, a contract for we cautiously reopen the economy. Will the ministerial difference for hydrogen and the go-ahead for the Acorn team please keep updating the guidance on reopening carbon capture and storage project. Will the Minister for the hospitality and retail sectors, so that businesses meet me to discuss these matters and take the necessary can successfully reopen in a covid-safe way? actions ahead of COP26? Paul Scully: I thank my hon. Friend for his ongoing Anne-Marie Trevelyan: It is always a pleasure to meet support and for championing businesses, including in the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan the hospitality and wedding sector. We will continue to Brown) to discuss these matters. COP26 is such an ensure as best we can that the guidance is available in important moment, not only with our carrying the time for businesses to plan and to give them the certainty responsibility of the presidency to help encourage other they need. 787 Oral Answers 23 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 788

James Daly [V]: Many councils, including my own in he meet me, cross-party members of the all-party hydrogen Bury, retain millions of pounds of additional restrictions group and industry representatives to discuss how to grant moneys in their accounts, rather than progress these important matters? distributing this crucial financial support to businesses in need. What steps can my hon. Friend take to ensure Kwasi Kwarteng: I would be delighted to meet the that these moneys are used to support businesses now? hon. Member and her associates in this enterprise. She will know that as Minister of State for Energy I Paul Scully: I thank my hon. Friend for all the work was particularly keen on this new technology and I that he does for his local businesses. At the Budget, my commissioned a hydrogen strategy that will be published right hon. Friend the Chancellor announced £425 million in the next couple of months. I am very interested in of additional restrictions grant funding to local authorities, this and of course I would be delighted to meet her and which means that more than £2 billion has been made her colleagues. available to local authorities since November 2020. The Government will continue to work closely with local [913845] Dr James Davies (Vale of Clwyd) (Con): [V] authorities to ensure that these grants are distributed to The future of plans for the Wylfa Newydd nuclear businesses when they need them and that the additional power station on Anglesey has been uncertain since money can be used. I urge authorities to relook at their Hitachi withdrew its interest. Other companies have, local policies to include businesses that have not had however, expressed an interest in the development, that support in the past. which could secure thousands of highly skilled jobs in north Wales. Will my right hon. Friend therefore meet Mark Eastwood [V]: The UK furniture industry is a me, the all-party Mersey Dee North Wales group and success story, with nearly £17 billion of annual consumer industry representatives to discuss the future of nuclear expenditure, over 330,000 jobs and exports that had in the region? grown to more than £1 billion a year before the pandemic. My constituency of Dewsbury is the UK’s third largest Kwasi Kwarteng: I would be absolutely delighted to furniture manufacturing base and it faces a number of meet my hon. Friend and the bodies that he has mentioned. challenges, including a potential global shortage of We are absolutely committed to nuclear power and to steel and foam, and issues relating to rules of origin. the people of north Wales, in particular. Wylfa is still a Will the Minister agree to meet the British Furniture prime candidate for new nuclear power and I look Confederation to address these concerns and help to forward to pursuing our discussions to see what may be ensure that the industry continues to thrive? done in this regard.

Paul Scully: My hon. Friend, having worked in the Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): Let me sector, is an excellent champion for it. I understand that associate myself, Mr Speaker, with the important remarks these remain extremely challenging times for the furniture you made on this national day of remembrance. industry, which particularly relies on retail premises to sell its products. I speak to the British Furniture I want to follow up the question about Liberty Steel Confederation on a regular basis as part of my roundtables, because the Business Secretary’s answer simply was not but I am always happy to meet my hon. Friend and the good enough. No ideology or dogma must stand in the confederation itself. way of protecting the jobs of 5,000 people and many more in the supply chain. This is a critical part of our Topical Questions national infrastructure and it is critical to those communities. Will he now do what he has failed to do so far and say [913844] Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven that he will do whatever it takes, including public ownership and Lesmahagow) (SNP): If he will make a statement if it is the best value for money choice, to save those jobs on his departmental responsibilities. if it is necessary?

The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Kwasi Kwarteng: The right hon. Gentleman will be Strategy (Kwasi Kwarteng): In my two months as the absolutely aware that this is an ongoing commercial BEIS Secretary of State, I have now held meetings with matter. He will know that I have seen local management, more than 200 businesses across the United Kingdom representatives of the unions and a number of people listening to their concerns and their hopes for the who are very, very keenly involved in the steel sector, future. Last week, it was my real pleasure to see BEIS and it would not be appropriate for me to enter into helping to make that future brighter when we launched what is a commercially sensitive situation. My heart our industrial decarbonisation strategy, which allocates goes out to the workers. They are an excellent workforce, more than £1 billion to driving down emissions from and Liberty Steel has a fine tradition in this space, but it industry and public buildings. We have also published would be inappropriate for me to enter into what are proposals for reforming audit and corporate governance, live, commercially sensitive issues. which will cement Britain’sstatus as the premier investment destination by raising standards, deterring fraud and Edward Miliband: It is not about the Business Secretary’s empowering, potentially, a new regulator. meetings or about his heart; it is about his action and his willingness to say that he will do plan B if it is Dr Cameron [V]: The Secretary of State will be aware necessary to save those jobs, as we expect him to do. that the National Engineering Laboratory based in my The problem is that the reason people are suspicious of constituency in East Kilbride has put together a vital the Secretary of State is that there used to be a cross-party proposal to build a clean fuels metrology centre. Given consensus in this country about industrial strategy, but that this project enjoys cross-party support and is vital in his two months in office he has torn up the industrial to the UK’s transition to a decarbonised economy, will strategy, abolished the Industrial Strategy Council, and 789 Oral Answers 23 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 790 thrown in the bin all the work local areas have done language schools were viable, profitable businesses over a number of years. Maybe he can tell the business before the pandemic, greatly contributing to their local community: why does he hate industrial strategy so much? economies and culture. I am sure my hon. Friend the Minister agrees that, given the right support they will Kwasi Kwarteng: I think it is very easy for the right be again. However, many of them have been excluded hon. Gentleman to get obsessed with the words “industrial from the Government’s business rates relief for the next strategy”. What this Government are committed to is financial year and are struggling. Will my hon. Friend action. That is why we launched the decarbonisation consider committing BEIS to work with the Ministry industrial strategy. That is why we are pursuing the of Housing, Communities and Local Government to fourth auction round in offshore wind. That is why look at expanding the eligibility for this— John Kerry, who I was very happy to meet two weeks ago, said that this country is a world leader in Mr Speaker: Order. Far too long. decarbonisation. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, [913848] Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con) [V]: Can the Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully): My hon. Secretary of State assure me that if the Government Friend has been a champion for all the businesses in her take the very draconian decision to ban summer area. Wehave spent £407 billion on support for businesses, holidays abroad this year, they will provide targeted including those that are not eligible for the business support to compensate the travel sector, which will be rates holiday. The interim report from the fundamental decimated by this decision? business rates review will be published next month and the full report will be published in the autumn. I urge Kwasi Kwarteng: My hon. Friend will know—if he local authorities to expand their local policies to include does not, I will let him know—that when I took office some of these businesses in the additional restrictions two months ago, the things that the travel and hospitality grant. sectors assured me that they needed more than ever were a road map and support. I am pleased to say that [913849] John Spellar (Warley) (Lab): The answer earlier my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister came up with that the Government would respond to the appalling his road map on 22 February and my right hon. Friend fire and rehire in due course is Whitehall-speak for the Chancellor extended unprecedented support to the kicking it into the long grass, and it is not good enough. economy on 3 March. I am happy to meet my hon. Will the Government learn from the methodology of Friend to discuss whether he wants to see further actions, their vaccine taskforce to move at speed, clarify the but we have committed £407 billion—an unprecedented problem, identify a solution and make and rapidly amount—to supporting the economy at this terrible implement decisions? Secretary of State, will you cut time. through the red tape and sort out this scandal? You may even make yourself popular. [913846] Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab) [V]: I am sure that the Secretary of State is aware that ITM Power based in my constituency is a leader in hydrogen Paul Scully: The right hon. Gentleman has obviously research and production. It has just massively expanded been speaking to my officials because the issue has its factory in my constituency.It is obviously disappointed popped up on my desk this morning. We will not kick that in the recent funding announcements the Government this into the long grass. We will tackle it. We will not backed blue hydrogen projects but not any green hydrogen allow bully boy tactics. We want a flexible workforce, projects. As soon as restrictions allow, will the Secretary but not at any cost. of State commit to visit ITM Power to look at the great work that it is doing and then review Government (Sevenoaks) (Con) [V]: Across Sevenoaks policy so we can make sure that the UK is where it and Swanley, high streets are preparing to reopen, should be—a world leader in the research and production supported by our brilliant Sevenoaks District Council. of green hydrogen? However, we are finding that some of our local businesses are being rejected for support from the high street Kwasi Kwarteng: The hon. Gentleman will know that recovery fund. Will my right hon. Friend the Secretary I have met ITM Power a number of times; I was of State meet me and my local council to discuss how honoured to meet them in Grimsby. It does a great job. we can address some of the issues? He will also know that, in my time as Minister of State for Energy, I commissioned the hydrogen strategy, which Kwasi Kwarteng: I would be delighted to meet my will be published shortly. At the core of the strategy is a hon. Friend and others to discuss these important issues. twin-track approach. We are promoting blue hydrogen— As my hon. Friend mentioned, the high street is clearly which is made through methane natural gas reformation— a hugely important part of our economy, and that is and, more particularly in answer to his question, we are whythe business rates review will be particularly interesting. also committed to green hydrogen, or electrolyser-produced hydrogen, in which ITM Power is the leader. [913851] Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab): Under the seasonal workers scheme, young people arrive from [913850] Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con): Country Russia, Belarus and Ukraine to pick fruit and vegetables Cousins is an English language school in Ilfracombe in to feed our public, but they are employed on zero-hours my constituency that every year brings students to contracts, sometimes deprived of work, and cannot North Devon as part of the 550,000 international make money. This is a form of modern-day slavery. students who visit the UK to study English, bringing in Will the Minister look into it and make sure we put an £1.4 billion and 35,000 jobs to our economy. English end to it? 791 Oral Answers 23 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 792

Paul Scully: Zero-hours contracts provide flexibility projects around the country when future funding is for the vast majority of people who use them and determined, so there is a risk of losing momentum. appreciate the benefits. We have got rid of exclusivity Will the Department look again at that proposal and contracts.Clearly,given the impact of covid on employment, ensure that in future funding rounds no project is held when we introduce the employment Bill in due course back? we will reflect on the lessons learned over this period. Kwasi Kwarteng: As the hon. Gentleman knows, we [913856] (Aylesbury) (Con) [V]: Bucking- have considerable plans for hydrogen production. We hamshire Council has done a remarkable job in distributing have a hydrogen strategy coming forward, and we have more than 95% of the additional restrictions grant consulted on business models. I am sure that people in funding that it has received from the Department, getting Ellesmere Port, and the HyNet cluster generally, will that money to local small firms. Can my hon. Friend have a big part to play in the development of hydrogen reassure me that the further funding that has been production in this country. promised will be transferred to the council very soon so that there is no delay in getting that cash to where it is needed most—to Aylesbury’s brilliant businesses? [913858] (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con) [V]: The Beddington incinerator is one of the Paul Scully: I can assure my hon. Friend that the biggest carbon polluters in Carshalton and Wallington. guidance will come out shortly, and that the funding I have previously raised concerns about recyclable will be with local councils in April—on 1 April. I urge materials being sent for incineration. What estimates him again to make sure that that money gets out of the has the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial door to businesses when they need it: now. Strategy made of the quantity of recyclable materials sent to so-called energy-from-waste operations, and [913853] Kate Osborne (Jarrow) (Lab): The 555 sub- what steps has the Department taken to ensure that postmasters and sub-postmistresses who took the Post those activities record carbon output accurately? Office to court in 2019 are not included in the historical shortfall scheme, creating two tiers of justice. Their Anne-Marie Trevelyan: The proportion of residual award, after costs, did not even scratch the surface of waste sent to landfill, incineration and transfer stations their losses, so does the Minister agree that, if justice is that could otherwise have been recycled in England in to be served, every victim must have their claim validated 2020 is not available, I am afraid, but data on waste under the same terms of the historical shortfall scheme? arisings are not structured around the material composition of waste streams. For both fossil and biogenic CO2 Paul Scully: Members of the group litigation scheme for energy-from-waste plants, national emissions entered into a full, final settlement through mediation estimates are based on an emission factor derived using with Ltd last year, but we are working with the 2006 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change sub-postmasters who have come forward on the historical default factor for biodegradable and non-biodegradable shortfall scheme. I urge them still to come forward to waste. the Post Office Horizon inquiry led by former judge Sir Wyn Williams, who is calling for evidence at the moment. [913860] Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD) [V]: Given that women are disproportionately more likely to lose their job during the pandemic, what conversations has [913857] Chris Clarkson (Heywood and Middleton) (Con): May I welcome the exciting industrial decarbon- the Minister had recently with the Department for isation strategy, which my right hon. Friend the Secretary Work and Pensions about how to support women back of State launched last week, backed by £1 billion, into work? £78 million of which will be spent in Greater Manchester? Does the Minister agree that that provides a road map Paul Scully: I speak to DWP Ministers all the time to decarbonising our economy, and is an exciting about how to create jobs for women and for all people opportunity for my Heywood and Middleton constituents in the UK. We had record jobs creation after the last to seek green new jobs? recession. Equally, we are planning to grow and bounce back. The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Anne-Marie Trevelyan): I thank my hon. Friend for his [913859] (South Northamptonshire) commitment to Greater Manchester and his (Con): May I urge my friends in BEIS to think again constituency. We are committed to building back better about weddings? It is simply not logical and not fair and creating those green jobs, which will help to that where venue organisers can arrange safe social accelerate our world-leading path to net zero. The package distancing we continue to deny young couples who are of measures set out in the industrial decarbonisation seeking to marry that vital opportunity to have friends strategy is part of this complex and critical path to and family around them. success.

[913854] Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) Paul Scully: I can guarantee I think of little else at the (Lab): Ellesmere Port is home to the HyNet North moment, because of the way my right hon. Friend and West project, and we were absolutely delighted to her colleagues in the weddings taskforce have pressed secure funding in the first round of Government that very just cause. In stage 2, wedding ceremonies in support. However, there is concern that different levels churches, register offices, dedicated wedding venues and of priority will be applied to the various hydrogen other premises that can open will be able to take place 793 Oral Answers 23 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 794 with up to 15 people indoors and receptions outdoors. Mr Speaker: I will now suspend the House to enable We are looking forward to expanding that in stage 3, the necessary arrangements to be made for the next and the events programme will conduct research to business. ensure that we can have non-socially distanced events 12.35 pm and larger weddings post June. Sitting suspended. 795 23 MARCH 2021 Defence and Security Industrial 796 Strategy Defence and Security Industrial Strategy competition may not be compatible with our national security requirements and, at last, it regards industry as a strategic capability in its own right—an industry we 12.39 pm must devote our attention to if we are to maintain our operational independence. The Minister for Defence Procurement (): With permission, I should like to make a statement on Today, I want to highlight three themes in particular the future defence and security industrial strategy. Last that are at the heart of DSIS. The first is our ability November,the Prime Minister announced he was increasing to work together to generate growth and prosperity spending on defence by £24 billion over the next across the Union. DSIS sets the framework for greater four years. Last week, the Government published their integration between Government, industry and academia. conclusions from the integrated review, the most It will see us working more closely, too, with top-flight comprehensive survey since the end of the cold war. research and those companies, great and small, that make this country so celebrated in the field of innovation. Yesterday, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of Through a better understanding of requirements,companies State for Defence set out what amounts to the biggest will be able to seize opportunities, pool resources shift in defence policy for a generation—a policy that and upskill to deliver cutting-edge capability onshore in will see us reinvesting, re-equipping and reorganising to the UK. face the threats of tomorrow. In doing so, he reconfirmed That is a framework that works. Our future combat this Government’s commitment to spend more than air system shows that the principles of DSIS are already £85 billion over the next four years on equipment and delivering. A fundamental strategic decision for this support for our armed forces. That reflects the fact that country, it will ensure UK air power continues at the our armed forces will need to be present and persistent, cutting edge as it evolves through this decade and and agile and adaptable in an ever-evolving threat landscape. beyond. We are investing more than £2 billion over the That is why it almost goes without saying that the most next four years in this British-led international collaboration, important thing in defence procurement is ensuring our safe in the knowledge that it will leverage hundreds people have the right capability, at the right time, to of millions of pounds of investment from the corporate preserve our national security. sector. These future systems will not just build Our success hinges on a productive relationship with technology but develop skills and create opportunity industry. The UK’s defence and security industry is for 2,500 apprentices over the next five years. “Generation world-renowned. Ministry of Defence spending in the Tempest”, as we have dubbed this cohort of future sector secures more than 200,000 direct and indirect talent, will, in turn, create extraordinary export jobs across the UK, while the industry’s success as opportunities with our friends and allies overseas. the world’s second largest global exporter of defence Of course, competition remains critical in many areas. goods and services supports many thousands more. The Even where we have already developed close partnerships sector provides our deterrent and underpins our critical at the prime level, we will expect to see productivity national infrastructure. Through the MOD’s £300 per incentivised and innovation encouraged. Across all our capita spend across the UK, it generates valuable national security procurement, DSIS will mean more skills and technology. The security industry alongside it, transparency, more clarity of our requirements and a of more than 6,000 companies, is a font of enterprise more co-operative approach to business. Weare replicating and entrepreneurship. Last year, cyber-security firms this joint approach in other sectors: ensuring that we raised more than twice as much investment as they had deliver our strategic imperatives, from nuclear to crypt-key; in 2019. complex and novel weapons; and new opportunities Overall, defence and security is one of the binding that are opening up in areas such as armoured vehicles elements of our successful Union. Our world-class as we develop a new land industrial strategy. workforce builds everything from submarines to Typhoons Critically, our spending on FCAS reflects an right across the country. We have frigates made in increased willingness to invest in research and Scotland, satellites in Belfast, next generation Ajax development. Overall, we are investing more than armoured vehicle technology in Wales and aircraft £6.6 billion in R&D over the next four years. That will production in the north of England. We must never support next-generation capabilities, from space satellites take for granted these industries, the skills they develop and automation to artificial intelligence and novel weapons. or the contribution they make to UK resilience, operational The message that our R&D spend sends, coupled with capability and prosperity. We must do more to recognise the clear direction of travel we are providing about our explicitly the social value that Government procurement future priorities, will give businesses the confidence can generate throughout the Union. to invest. To ensure that we continue to have onshore capabilities That brings me to another key element: we must that meet our needs and continue to generate prosperity forge stronger international partnerships. By doing more long into the future, I am today publishing our defence R&D, we will keep ourselves current and encourage the and security industrial strategy. I am pleased to say the very best from outside these shores to collaborate with strategy is a detailed policy document, and rightly so, UK companies. I have already mentioned FCAS as one but its significance can be summed up in a few sentences. of how a UK-led collaboration with allies and It signals a shift away from global competition by partners can work, but we see it elsewhere in other air default towards a more flexible, nuanced approach. It programmes, such as the UK’s significant contribution provides, and we will continue to provide, greater clarity to the US F-35 stealth fighter or our ongoing investment about the technology we seek and the market implications in Typhoon with our European partners. Time and long before we launch into the market, allowing companies again, we see how international collaboration can deliver to research, invest and upskill. It identifies where global the very best kit for our people. 797 Defence and Security Industrial 23 MARCH 2021 Defence and Security Industrial 798 Strategy Strategy As part of this international emphasis, DSIS also pandemic? I also pay tribute to the men and women puts a renewed focus on exports. As we demand more of who work in our UK defence sector. They, too, responded industry to meet our requirements, so we need to offer it rapidly, making personal protective equipment and more support to win abroad and deliver economies of ventilators, and they play a vital part in designing, scale. It is because of our recent investments in maritime producing and maintaining the equipment our forces that I am the first Minister for Defence Procurement in need. a generation to talk about selling our state-of- the-art ship designs to our close friends in Australia and Labour welcomes the publication of this strategy; Canada, in respect of the Type 26, and, we hope, to indeed, the very use of the term “strategy” is something others around the world. Notably, our Type 31 is a of a victory in itself. We welcome the confirmation that frigate that will be multi-purpose and has been specifically global competition by default, begun by the White designed with the needs of international partners in Paper in 2012, has gone; it is high time we put an end to mind. a British Government being just as happy buying abroad as building in Britain. We also welcome the change to Our integrated review seeks to capitalise on this new naval procurement policy,and we welcome the commitment export-led approach, not only setting out our plans to to invest £6.6 billion in defence research and development deliver the eight Type 26s and five Type 31s but highlighting over the next four years. our investments in next-generation naval vessels, including Type 32 frigates and fleet solid support ships. We believe However, there is a question at the heart of this it is time to spark a renaissance in British . strategy: is this the start of a new era, with the aim not That is why we are today changing our naval procurement just to make in Britain and maintain in Britain, but to policy to make clear our ability to choose to procure develop now the technologies and companies that we warships of any description here in the UK. will need in 10 years’ time to procure in Britain? Labour’s determination to see British investment directed first to The third and final theme of DSIS that I want to British industry is fundamental. When done well, that highlight is achieving real reform in how we procure. strengthens our UK economy and, as covid has exposed Some of this is about driving pace and better working the risks of relying on foreign supply chains, it also has inside the MOD to deliver capabilities at the speed of the potential to strengthen our UK sovereignty and our relevance, but it is also about changing how we interact security. We therefore want a higher bar set for any with our suppliers, reforming the Defence and Security decision to procure Britain’s defence equipment from Public Contracts Regulations 2011 to focus more on other countries. Will the Minister state today, in the innovation and increasing the agility of acquisition. We clearest possible terms, the Government’s commitment are adopting the social value procurement policy to to build in Britain? How will this strategy strengthen ensure that wider qualities such as skills creation or the UK’s defence resilience by growing our sovereign supply chain resilience are explicitly taken into account capacity to replace equipment if it is lost in conflict? in tender evaluation. That will be mandatory under What is the strategy to boost Britain’sfoundation industries DSPCR from 1 June. linked to defence, such as steel? We will be doing more to incentivise continuous improvement in single-source procurement. We want This strategy demands a massive change in mindset to ensure that the supply chains of our primes are in the MOD and the military, which only Ministers can constantly open to innovators, and we want to ensure lead, so will the Minister commit to publishing an that our fantastic small and medium-sized enterprises—the update on progress, with another oral statement to the lifeblood of defence—get a fair chance when it comes to House one year from now, not least so that we can judge winning work, not least from inward investors whose the Prime Minister’s boast in launching the integrated interest and investment in the UK we will continue view that we will open up to welcome. “new vistas of economic progress, creating 10,000 jobs every DSIS signals a step change in our approach to the year”—[Official Report, 19 November 2020; Vol. 684, c. 488.] defence and security industrial sectors. Ultimately, DSIS Let me turn to the money. We welcomed the Prime will make a huge difference to our nation’s defence. It Minister’s extra £16.5 billion in capital funding after the will help retain onshore critical industries for our national last decade of decline, and we welcome the detail set out security and our future. It will help us develop advanced by the Minister today, but 30,000 jobs in the defence skills and capabilities. It will help us realise the Prime industry have gone since 2010, and nearly £420 million Minister’s vision of the UK as a science superpower. in real terms has been cut in defence R&D, so in many With defence procurement benefiting every part of our UK regions the money promised today will still be well Union, it will help galvanise our levelling-up agenda, short of what has been taken away over the last decade. creating a virtuous circle whereby the support we provide With the National Audit Office reporting a black hole to those who defend and protect us becomes a catalyst in the defence budget of up to £17 billion, and with the that propels jobs, skills and prosperity in every corner permanent secretary telling the Public Accounts Committee of our United Kingdom. I commend this statement to that not all is the House. “going to go on new and revolutionary kit”, 12.49 pm exactly how much of this extra money will be swallowed by the black hole in current programmes? John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): On this day, when we mark a full year since the country first The MOD’s bad habits run deep. Only three of the went into lockdown, may I use this statement to pay MOD’s 30 major projects have a clear Government tribute to the men and women of the armed forces, who green light on time and on budget. The Prime Minister have done so much to help the country through this told the House: 799 Defence and Security Industrial 23 MARCH 2021 Defence and Security Industrial 800 Strategy Strategy [John Healey] later date. There was a significant black hole left, and I regret that there were jobs lost over that period. I hope “We are setting up a unit to ensure that we get value out of this we will not be so lackadaisical about exports that can massive package.”—[Official Report, 19 November 2020; Vol. 684, maintain jobs, but there is a long lag time on that. I am c. 499.] proud to see the investment we are now putting into our I have tabled the same set of questions to the Minister defence. We make no mistake in what we say about our twice now about the progress, powers and personnel of equipment plan over the past four years—it has clearly this unit, and he has given the same evasive non-answers been unaffordable, and the permanent secretary has both times, so now is a good time for him to level with made clear that that is the case. We now have a strong the whole House. Will he admit that there is no unit and basis on which to deliver. no plan for a unit? The Prime Minister was making it To reassure the right hon. Gentleman, he mentioned up, was he not? The important point is this: without a that there are only three green lights, and I think he is revolution in the way that the MOD controls procurement referring to the Government major projects portfolio, costs, we are doomed to see it repeat the mistakes of the where the senior responsible owners themselves highlight past. at-risk projects. There is only one thing more scary than Yesterday, the Defence Secretary asked our forces to projects that are delayed or do not hit their costings, do more with less. Today, the Minister is asking industry and that is when SROs are unaware of it. I am pleased to do more with more. This is a big, one-off opportunity. we have people who are all over the detail and are Ministers have got to get this right. It is no good in two focusing on making certain that these projects work. I years’ time if the NAO still says that the military would rather problems were highlighted so they can be equipment plan is unaffordable and still says there is a addressed. black hole in the defence budget. Does the Minister To help address that issue, we are doubling the number accept that the single challenge for the MOD now is of projects that are going to be looked at through the delivery, delivery, delivery? On behalf of the British defence major projects portfolio. That will go up to 65. people and British forces, we will hold them hard to That will ensure that at the centre in the Ministry of account for exactly that. Defence, we are keeping a close eye on what the top-level budgets are delivering and making certain that we are Jeremy Quin: I am delighted to confirm that the next continuing to deliver those programmes to time and years will be all about delivery, delivery, delivery, based cost. We continue to upgrade Defence Equipment and on the sound financial footing that this defence settlement Support. The number of those trained at senior commercial has given us. I am very proud of what we have achieved standard will have risen from 125 to 200 by the end of with the plans that we have set out, and I am convinced this year, and we are determined to continue to deliver that we will be able to meet the challenge that has been on the DE&S transformation plan. set for us in order to ensure that we are investing I am very optimistic for the future. I am optimistic properly for the future. that, working together with industry, we can continue I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his comments to deliver a fine UK defence industry of which we can about the armed forces’ contribution during covid. They all be proud and that will continue to deliver the protection, are sincerely meant, and I know they will be welcomed equipment and lethality that our troops continue to across the armed forces. I also thank him for his comments need to be effective in meeting the challenges in the year about the defence sector. It rose to the challenge as team ahead. UK, with unions and management continuing to deliver for the public good. Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con): It has I welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s commitment to been a busy week for defence, with the publication of support us on moving away from global competition by the integrated review confirming Britain’s ambitions on default, as well as his comments on naval procurement the international stage and advancing our defence posture, and his welcoming of the £6.6 billion for R&D. I have and now we have today’s publication of the defence and good news for him: this policy absolutely gives us the security industrial strategy,which advances our procurement ability to set out right from the outset what we are capabilities and supports UK industry. I cannot offer trying to achieve from a tender. It is not only about too much comment, however, because the Minister, making certain we have the best equipment for our unlike his boss, has chosen to introduce this to Parliament armed forces, but about what else we can get for that in first rather than giving us teasers in the media over the the national interest, ensuring that we maximise our last couple of weeks, but on the face of it he is to be social value. That will come through in the awarding of congratulated because we are seeing an advancement of the marks in the tender, which, as I have said, will be the UK industrial base and support for British exports. compulsory as of 1 June. I believe that we will get a lot Indeed, he has done such a good job and is doing such out of the strategy. We will see more equipment built in fantastic work as Minister for Defence Procurement Britain, both by UK companies and by those collaborating that I am now worried that he might be rotated and with us. moved on. I hope he will have time to appear before the The right hon. Gentleman then strayed into some of Defence Committee, however, to talk in detail about the economics of the task. I was in the Treasury under this important work. the last Labour Administration, and we could have a I have one question on international collaboration. discussion about the state of the national finances in The Minister talked about Tempest. That is a joint 2010 if he chose to have one, and the £36 billion black effort, but in NATO there is another project of equal hole left in the Ministry of Defence. [Interruption.] I complexity run by the French, FCAS. Is it not time that hear chuntering. I have an excellent article from we recognised that these two efforts should be merged, that will confirm it, but I will share it at a because experience with the F-35 indicates that once we 801 Defence and Security Industrial 23 MARCH 2021 Defence and Security Industrial 802 Strategy Strategy pay for these things there is not the total amount of to non-proliferation. The UK Government have repeatedly funds available to buy the full complement? We have set out their commitments to conventional forces, the gone down from 138 to 48 today. armed forces covenant and long-term nuclear non- proliferation, all of which the SNP support. This integrated Jeremy Quin: I appreciate that my right hon. Friend review stands in clear contradiction to those commitments. has not yet had a chance to go through this in detail, The UK must start matching its capabilities to its and I apologise if he did not got a copy in advance, but I threats, and stop neglecting the real priorities. would be delighted to appear before the Select Committee; I look forward to being grilled in due course and to Jeremy Quin: I thank the hon. Lady, but first I want explaining the policy in more detail. to reassure my right hon. Friend the Member for My right hon. Friend raised the specific matter of Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood) that I have remembered FCAS. We are very proud of this programme. It will be the name I forgot earlier; it is Gripen, of course—that is very good news for the north-west of England—for what I should have been referring to. I thank the various Lancashire, of course—and throughout the country. people who have tried to help me out on that— There is form in Europe for having multiple aircraft [Interruption]—which is mainly my staff; the right hon. productions going on at the same time. In fact, we have Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) is correct. moved from three, with Rafale and I am trying to Turning to the question, first I thank the hon. Member remember the name of the Swedish plane, which I for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) for should not forget. [Interruption.] Yes, but at least three have her support for our naval warships policy. This is very been going on in the past, with Typhoon, and I believe good news for the Clyde and for Rosyth. We have that there is room in Europe to have more than one existing frigate orders going through now and we will be project. We have different timescales and requirements setting out the new national shipbuilding strategy, which from our French friends, but we are making a very will outline in more detail further orders that will be positive commitment to FCAS: £2 billion of investment, coming in in the years ahead, many of which will—I and that will be leveraged with hundreds of millions of have absolutely no doubt—benefit UK yards in many pounds from our industrial partners. So we will carry different ways, including the yards in Scotland. It is a on advancing this; I believe we have a great prospect real step change in shipbuilding. People should take a ahead of us, and if other international partners wish to huge amount of comfort from the investment that we join us, the phone is on my desk. are placing in shipbuilding and it should be a real signal Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP) for shipbuilders around the UK to invest in their yards, [V]: May I join others in paying tribute to the armed skills and capabilities for the future. forces and their contribution to addressing the covid I also point out that Scotland is not only about pandemic? shipbuilding. It was a great pleasure to award contracts We on the Benches welcome to Thales in relation to sonar this time last year and the Government’s£188 billion increase in defence spending Boxer, based in Glasgow, and to Leonardo, with its over the coming four years. However, it is clear that the fantastic work on radar in Edinburgh. There is a huge Government are breaking their commitments on personal amount of capability in Scotland, which is one of the welfare, numbers and capacity. reasons why it has £380 per capita of defence equipment The SNP has consistently called on the UK Government and support investment going on there, as opposed to to guarantee that any future contracts for warships £300 per head of population in the UK as a whole. benefit Scotland’s shipyards, so I welcome the investment Scotland can be really proud of the contribution that it in shipbuilding and the new procurement strategy. The makes to UK defence. Minister must, however, commit to ensuring that the We have, and continue to have, great relationships UK, and specifically the Clyde, will benefit from this with our European partners. We work closely with the investment, and any clarity the Minister can offer on Germans, the French and all those across the EU and these contracts will be welcome. we will continue to do so. We have close relationships It remains unclear how a post-Brexit UK will co-operate regarding FCAS, as my right hon. Friend the Member with EU countries on security. Continued co-operation for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood) said. We will with the EU on defence procurement is in the best continue to work to ensure that we have good relationships interests of the UK industry and would continue to with them going forward, as well as others. allow the UK to be at the forefront. However, the lack Lastly, on nuclear weapons, I know the position of in the review of a formal security treaty with the EU is a the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela massive oversight. Can the Minister give us any assurance Crawley) and that of the SNP. Parliament voted to that the UK will be pursuing the administrative agreement upgrade our nuclear weaponry to ensure that we maintained with the European Defence Agency and the European a credible, minimal, independent nuclear deterrent. That defence fund? Investment in research and development is what we are doing and I can reassure her that this and in apprenticeships to maintain our crucial skills equipment plan is indeed affordable. base and strategic capabilities is essential, and new capacity in cyber-intelligence and space is welcome, but Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con) [V]: I was not on these increases must not come at the cost of conventional the call list for yesterday’s statement by the Defence forces. Secretary, but I am appalled and shocked that the I must also address the elephant in the room: Trident. Army’s critical mass is being further cut to 72,500. At a time when the equipment plan remains unaffordable, Regarding procurement and the historical failure of the we are increasing the UK stockpile of nuclear warheads MOD to achieve value for money for the taxpayer, on and the UK Government might well find themselves on behalf of the many defence companies across the UK the wrong side of international lawgiven their commitment that desperately need certainty, not least to achieve 803 Defence and Security Industrial 23 MARCH 2021 Defence and Security Industrial 804 Strategy Strategy [Richard Drax] () (Con) [V]: I, too, congratulate our armed forces on, and thank them for, economy of scale, I seek my hon. Friend’s guarantee all of their work over the past year in combating covid, that the number of ships, planes and armoured fighting particularly through the vaccine roll-out. I also congratulate vehicles and equipment promised yesterday will actually my hon. Friend on his statement. He will have seen be built and manufactured, and not delayed or stopped, some of the best of innovation in new technology in as has happened all too frequently in the past. defence when he visited the Sierra Nevada Corporation in St Athan in my constituency a few months ago. Does Jeremy Quin: My hon. Friend has my assurance. This he recognise that established brands, often with long- is the incredible value—it has been difficult to get there, standing relationships with the MOD, are often seen to and I recognise, as he does, that tough choices have had be less of a risk in comparison with new,young, innovative to be made, but we have got the books to balance. That companies that could offer new opportunities for the is what is so critical. I will be speaking to companies this MOD? So will he agree to offering guidance throughout afternoon and during the course of tomorrow. They the procurement process when there is a better opportunity need to know that we have our ambitions and our for partnerships with young innovative companies, which funding into the same place, so that when I look them in might be seen to be an opportunity with less risk at the eye and talk about the orders that we will be placing that time? in future, they can look with confidence and know that they can put investment into that, into their workforce Jeremy Quin: I thank my right hon. Friend for his and into their capital to ensure that they can meet our question and I well remember visiting the Sierra Nevada needs. Corporation with him last year—it was an eye opener. I hope that it is seeing opportunities from various changes Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) to the Army, including the ranges. I am sure those there (LD): May I also pay tribute to our armed forces will be putting their minds to it. We will be publishing personnel for their role during the pandemic? Their later this year a refresh of our small and medium-sized work has been fantastic and it has been all over the UK, enterprises action plan. I am proud that we have driven including in the very far north of Scotland in my up the amount of funds going to SMEs to more than constituency. It seems to me that this is one of the 19%, from about 13% in 2013-14. There is more work to benefits of being a United Kingdom, so that the United be done, and in order to help that process not only are Kingdom armed forces can do these things, and I am we ensuring that we are maintaining DASA—the Defence sorry that my hon. Friend the Member for West and Security Accelerator—a fantastic process of providing Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) is not with seedcorn funding to develop smaller companies and us today. give opportunities to help the MOD—but we will be expanding from Northern Ireland to across the whole A great deal of our precious gold has been spent on UK the defence technology accelerator, which has been our splendid two new aircraft carriers. In future, will working very well in Northern Ireland. It helps to there be enough surface ships to mount protective screens exploit and pull through technology that is being developed for these two precious aircraft carriers? And if both by smaller companies. So there will be a package of these aircraft carriers are at sea with sufficient protective support and an SME action plan will be produced later screens, where will that leave the rest of the Royal this year. Navy’s surface fleet if it has to mount a non-aircraft carrier-led operation? Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): I welcome today’s publication of the defence strategy. Sadly, it is Jeremy Quin: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his 11 years late; for the past few years it has been called warm gratitude to the armed forces. He is absolutely for. The UK has rightly got an open defence market, right; they have been spread right across the United which has led to innovation, investment and world-beating Kingdom. I think I am right in saying that the last time kit for our armed forces, but it has also been used as an I looked at the numbers, we had 1,800 troops still opportunity by the Treasury, in particular, and the deployed, of which 500 were deployed in Scotland, MOD to buy off the shelf from overseas nations, without helping on covid-related tasks. What he says will be any commitment at all to investment in jobs and technology much appreciated by all those who are involved at in this country. What steps is the Minister going to take present. to implement the very good recommendations in the On our protective screens to the aircraft carriers, the report from the right hon. Member for Ludlow (Philip hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that it is essential Dunne) on prosperity? How will that have an effect and that we are able to provide them with carrier strike ensure that jobs and investment go into the UK, rather groups. We are very proud of that carrier strike group than have the simple, knee-jerk reaction from the Treasury going out later this year. We will have sufficient frigates always to buy from abroad? and destroyers to meet those requirements. There will be a dip, which has been publicised, with the retirement Jeremy Quin: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for of two Type 23s, but we will be looking to 20 or more his question. He has beaten me to it, because I was destroyers and frigates in short order; orders are being going to say suitably warm words about my right hon. placed and we will ensure that we have them. I should Friend the Member for Ludlow when he addresses the also mention that we believe we have increased availability House later in this session. The right hon. Gentleman is from the destroyers and frigates currently in our fleet, right to say that that report in 2018 was incredibly and the OPVs—offshore patrol vehicles—also help lessen influential and very helpful in setting out not only the the load on some of those frigates and destroyers, so I prosperity agenda that was announced in March 2019, am confident we will be able to meet the requirements but this paper. Two changes should warm the heart of he sets out. the right hon. Gentleman. [Interruption.] I will do my 805 Defence and Security Industrial 23 MARCH 2021 Defence and Security Industrial 806 Strategy Strategy best. The first is that as we look at new procurements It is also important that we lay before the Committee an right from the outset we will be looking to think, “What enhanced equipment plan. We are working on that right are we going to get out of this, not just for the kit we now. I think it is best that we do that properly, alongside need for our forces—what is the broader impact? What the NAO, so that we work with it and make certain that else can we do to secure prosperity, which, after all is a we have a detailed plan that can be put out for scrutiny. defence task, through the orders we place and how we We have that plan, but we need to make certain that the go about it?” We will be taking that nuanced approach, NAO is equally comfortable with it. looking at each one in turn, on a case-by-case basis, to The hon. Lady will recognise that, in any organisation see what can be achieved. Of course there will be with 6,500 contracts, there are going to be ones where occasions when off the shelf is the best option, but for we run into problems—that is the experience of the every one that needs to be tested, considered and thought commercial world as well as Government—but we need through. Secondly, I am very proud that we are going to to do better. So we have enhanced the number of people be ensuring that social value is always applied to our who are trained to a very senior level in terms of tender process. So this will be a minimum of 10%. It will commercial expertise in DE&S; as I say, that is going up be compulsory from 1 June,in respect of DSPCR—Defence to 200 by the end of this year. We are putting more and Security Public Contracts Regulations 2011. This is emphasis on where we look at the centre at projects, about making certain that through that mechanism we rather than leaving it entirely with the TLBs. We will catch the whole benefit that a procurement can make. bring out up to 65 major projects—not necessarily on a (East Hampshire) (Con): I strongly financial basis; there can be some that are low in value welcome my hon. Friend’s statement and the strategy, but high risk in terms of delivery—starting from the including what he outlined on the deepened working centre, through the defence major projects initiative. with industry and academia. Can he say how the strategy With the help of the Infrastructure and Projects can help build the UK’s skills base in key STEM subjects, Authority, for which I am grateful, I am reviewing our which is obviously very important for defence industries, senior responsible officer structure, to make certain that but also for important parts of the wider civil economy? our SROs, who do a good job but quite a lot of whom are quite stretched, have more individual responsibility Jeremy Quin: This is a great opportunity to build our and that people are all over the detail of their projects. I skills base and our number of apprentices. My right hope that in combination, alongside a reform of DSPCR hon. Friend will have heard what I said about FCAS in the single source contract regulations, we may be in a and Team Tempest and that new generation coming better place to not necessarily please the hon. Lady’s through—people are very excited about the prospect of Committee but at least do our best to meet the requirements working on this new system—but it is broader than that it has set. that. I particularly pay tribute to the work of the RAF across Wales in bringing on STEM skills. The whole of (Harrow East) (Con) [V]: Can my the armed forces are acutely aware that our future is hon. Friend confirm exactly how many new ships will going to be digital, cyber and highly technological, and be ordered, that they will be built in Britain, and that we as a country need to have that STEM support. I they will be given the opportunity to be at sea advancing know that this strategy, with its £6.6 billion minimum Britain’s interests rather than just remaining in port spend on R&D over the next four years, will help to gathering dust? deliver just that. Jeremy Quin: On my hon. Friend’s last point, we are Mr Speaker: I call the Chair of the Public Accounts very focused on increasing availability to make certain Committee, Meg Hillier. that our ships are where they should be—at sea, often Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ present. The example we have set with HMS Montrose Co-op): I welcome that we are getting more clarity on of having the crew going out to the ship rather than the some of the issues around defence spending, and ship endlessly coming to and from is a great example of particularly the Minister’s bold statement that he wants how our ships can be more present and more persistent to see us and have more influence around the world. “achieving real reform in how we procure.” Yes, there will be more ships; we will set out more It would be great if we saw some of that go down to our detail in the shipbuilding strategy, which will look not SMEs. However, as he knows, the National Audit Office only at the Royal Navy but across the totality of concluded in its recent report on the defence equipment Government expenditure on shipbuilding. There will be plan that the Department good news—more good news—on shipbuilding in the “continues to make over-optimistic and inconsistent judgements UK; of that I have absolutely no doubt. We have set out when forecasting costs.” our numbers—eight Type 26s and five Type 31s—but in That information comes from the Department’s own addition there will be more news on Type 32s and other cost assurance and analysis service. Can the Minister vessels that we will be procuring, including the fleet tell the House and the country what precisely he is solid support ships. going to do differently to ensure that procurement and cost management in the equipment plan is managed John Spellar (Warley) (Lab): On the fleet solid support better? What precise actions is he going to take? ships, the announcement is of course enormously welcome, but why has it taken us—particularly my right hon. Jeremy Quin: I thank the hon. Lady’s Committee for Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) and its report in the summer, which was no holds barred; we I—so long to persuade Ministers to designate them as have lessons to learn. We are endeavouring to ensure naval vessels, as they have done today? Similarly, it is that we answer each of the points made in that report in good that we are moving away from global by default, turn and that we learn from the report and its findings. but why not behave like every other industrial country 807 Defence and Security Industrial 23 MARCH 2021 Defence and Security Industrial 808 Strategy Strategy [John Spellar] and try to make it a hub for industry—an exciting place, not just inadequate housing and farmland. Will he take by looking after our own industry and making it clear action this day? to officials right the way down the line that the policy is now British by default? Jeremy Quin: Action this day, Mr Speaker. First, I can reassure my right hon. Friend that the date is the same; it will be 2022. I was under the impression that Jeremy Quin: I know that the right hon. Gentleman my officials were speaking with the local council. I and the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) sincerely hope that is the case. I will follow it up today. have been assiduous. I once accused him of being a If there is any dilatory behaviour, I will get back to my cracked record, but at least it was a very patriotic tune. I right hon. Friend, but I hope that is not the case and appreciate his campaign and that of the right hon. that decisions are being progressed. Member for North Durham. They were pushing on an open door. We wanted to make certain that FSS has a Dame Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab) [V]: Perhaps we lot of value to the UK in broad terms, as well as to the will have to wait for the shipbuilding strategy document, Royal Navy. More information will be given on that in but will the Minister tell us what action his Department due course. is taking to ensure that a very high percentage of I can guarantee that we will have a good close working domestically produced steel will be used in the build of relationship with our naval shipbuilders. I look forward the next generation of Royal Navy ships and that the to more orders coming their way in the future as we see work will be done in British shipyards, not least Cammell the full benefit of our national shipbuilding programme Laird in Birkenhead? play out in the years and decades ahead. I have no doubt that this strategy will signal a renaissance in our Jeremy Quin: We are grateful for the work of Cammell relationship with onshore building in the UK, but it is a Laird on the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, and the company nuanced approach; we are making certain that we get continues to perform on our power improvement project the kit we need in the best way we possibly can. for the Type 45s. It does a good job by us. Decisions on steel are made by our primes, but the Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) hon. Lady is right. The vast majority of the steel used in (SNP) [V]: Over the last decade, armed forces pay has the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers was British, only risen by about half the rate of inflation and yet and more than half, by value, of the steel used in our again this Government, who so value their forces, have Type 26s comes from the UK. Given the extra shipbuilding shamefully deigned to freeze their pay. While the signalled via yesterday’s Command Paper, I am confident Government are cutting conventional forces again, it that there will be further opportunities for British steel has been estimated that Trident may cost as much as in the years ahead. £205 billion. Will the Minister confirm the additional Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) costs of these new pointless and immoral warheads, (Lab) [V]: As we have heard, defence procurement must and can he tell forces personnel why his Government be about supporting our own strategically important have prioritised these unusable and obscene weapons defence manufacturing industry and protecting skilled over their jobs and standard of living? jobs, as many countries do around the world. There can be no greater ambassadors for global Britain than our Jeremy Quin: The hon. Gentleman could persuade Red Arrows. Ministers have previously said that the his colleagues in the to ease the current Red Arrows fleet of Hawk trainers, built at burden of tax that has fallen on our regular services, Brough just outside Hull in the 1970s,have an out-of-service who are there in Scotland doing their bit for every part date of 2030. Will we get a decision on the renewal of of the UK and who are being taxed more than they are that fleet over the next few years? elsewhere in the UK. A first step would be to give that money back to the armed forces personnel concerned. Jeremy Quin: The right hon. Lady will be pleased to hear that the Red Arrows are safe, and the current I turn to our nuclear policy. I understand the hon. out-of-service date remains 2030. I have no plans that I Gentleman’s position; he is not a supporter of a nuclear can currently share with her on what we will do in deterrent. But this House is. This House decided that respect of an upgrade. That means not that one is not we needed to have and to maintain a credible minimum going to happen, but just that at the moment I do not nuclear deterrent, and that is what we will do. have any plans and 2030 is a little distant. It is, though, something to which I will turn my mind. Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): The Minister, in his statement, talked of a productive relationship Chris Loder (West Dorset) (Con): I have been delighted with the industry. One way in which the MOD can have to hear about planes and ships in the exchanges on the a far more productive relationship with the industry is statement so far,but as the UK’sonly end-to-end helicopter through the use of MOD sites that become surplus to manufacturer is located on the border of West Dorset requirements. The Ministry has announced that RAF and South Somerset, I am keen to hear some good news Scampton is to close in 2022, although there is now a about the rotary wing sector as well. The changing of rumour that it might stay open. In the past when the some of the difficult and protracted MOD procurement RAF has walked away from a base, it has pulled out the processes offers a huge opportunity to make closer the plug and left behind low-grade housing and farmland; relationship between the end users and our British we have enough farmland in Lincolnshire, including inventors. I would be delighted to understand from the 600 square miles in my constituency. I want the Minister Minister whether that will be a factor in a lot of the to promise me today that he will really get going on initiatives and programmes that the Command Paper RAF Scampton when it becomes surplus to requirements will bring forward. 809 Defence and Security Industrial 23 MARCH 2021 Defence and Security Industrial 810 Strategy Strategy Jeremy Quin: My hon. Friend and, indeed, my hon. difference to the actual deployment of ships? As we Friend the Member for Yeovil (Mr Fysh) are both know, we have had too many tied up for too long, when fantastic advocates for Leonardo and the capabilities we need them to be out doing exactly what we pay that it represents across a wide range of defence areas, them for. including the rotary wing sector. I have no doubt that Leonardo will be pleased about the announcement of Jeremy Quin: Yes, I can absolutely assure my hon. our desire to procure more medium-lift helicopters, to Friend on that point. I admire his maths, as well his come in the mid-2020s. I am sure people from Leonardo attention to detail in respect of the hon. Gentleman’s will be looking at that assiduously—if they are not, I sapper tie. think I am due to speak to them later today and will I assure my hon. Friend that we are absolutely on it. make certain that they are, but I suspect they are on it. We need to maintain the availability of our fleet. We are We have a strategic partnership with Leonardo and I not about saying, “We’ve got X number of ships. Isn’t hope that it will study DSIS closely to work out how to that great?” when they are all tied up in Portsmouth. work with us even more closely in the years ahead. There is no point in that. We need our fleet to be present, to be persistent and to be forward looking, and Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP): that is exactly what we are going to be focusing on. This The future surface combatant programme to replace might be stretching his question too far, but let me say Type 23 began in 1994. By 2005, it had evolved into the that the same also applies to our land industrial strategy, sustained surface combatant capability programme, which which I am proud to have announced today as part of envisaged three classes of frigates.Since then, Governments this process. have published the defence industry strategy for shipbuilding; agreed a 15-year terms-of-business agreement Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab) [V]: The MOD has a with BAE Systems in 2013; announced the Type 31 in mixed record on procurement investment in south Wales. the 2015 SDSR; and published the 2017 national On the one hand, there is a long-standing commitment shipbuilding strategy—remember that, Mr Speaker? Now, to General Dynamics, but the MOD cancelled the defence in 2021, the Government have unveiled their brand-new in St Athan and, only a couple of years ago, Type 32 and a return to the three-frigate escort fleet. preposterously sold the Maindy barracks in the Rhondda, What is the Department going to do to address the thereby denying the Sea Cadets the possibility of having three lost decades of confusion in naval shipbuilding? a new home locally. There are small investments in Does the Minister think there are sites on these islands companies such as MFC International in Tonypandy, apart from the Clyde that could build the Type 32? but may I ask the Minister to do two things? First, will he make sure that small companies have a real chance of Jeremy Quin: There are shipyards throughout the big contracts with the MOD? Secondly, will he please United Kingdom that will look into this process to see buy the Sea Cadets in the Rhondda a new home? how they can prosper, but I am acutely aware of the great skills that are exhibited on the Clyde and at Jeremy Quin: I cannot promise the hon. Gentleman a Rosyth and of the fantastic job they are doing and have new home for the Sea Cadets, but I take what he says continued to do throughout covid. I am grateful for very seriously. As a result of his question, I will look their continuous support throughout the process. into the matter and find out where we are. The cadets have an important role to play around the country and I am grateful also to the hon. Gentleman for talking they should be properly housed, but I cannot answer us through the history of some of the decisions; he is with any more precision than that. right that a lot of them are protracted. I am proud to say, however, that with the plans we have unveiled, we More broadly, the hon. Gentleman recognises the will have seven classes of vessel produced in the UK for value to south Wales of the Ajax contract. It is an the first time since 1973, so that is another historic incredibly impressive, fully digitalised vehicle. He is milestone. What we are setting out is a clear vision of right, though, that often in defence, the real value is how we will progress frigates, destroyers and other found with SMEs. As I said, over 19% of our equipment vessels such as the multi-role surveillance ship, and FSS. and support spending goes to SMEs now. We will have There is clearly a large pipeline of work for UK shipbuilders a refreshed SME action plan published later this year, to focus on, to upskill for and to be sharpening their and it will include issues already raised as part of this pencils for to ensure that they can engage with us thesis—for example, the defence technology exploitation properly. plan, which has worked well in Northern Ireland, will be put out right across the Union. There are measures (Tonbridge and Malling) (Con): I am in the strategy to support smaller companies, and I delighted to see the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire want smaller companies,which are often the most innovative (Martin Docherty-Hughes) wearing a Royal Engineers and inspiring in our country, to have the opportunity to tie. win larger contracts. I thank him for his question. It is fantastic to hear this commitment to shipbuilding. James Gray (North ) (Con) [V]: [Inaudible.] In my experience in the MOD, the Navy would ask for five ships, centre would say, “Four should be enough. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): Order. Here’s three, we’re going buy two and we’ll only service Could the hon. Gentleman start again, please? We had one.” Very quickly, we would be reduced to less than some sort of technical problem. had been promised in the initial strategy. With the pivot to Asia we have been promised and the commitment to James Gray: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. base out of Singapore, can my hon. Friend assure me May I first call attention to my entry in the Register of that not only will we have the purchasing capability, but Members’ Financial Interests and my involvement in we will have the servicing capability that makes such a the all-party parliamentary group for the armed forces 811 Defence and Security Industrial 23 MARCH 2021 Defence and Security Industrial 812 Strategy Strategy [James Gray] Jeremy Quin: I should just be clear that we look at every tender on a case-by-case basis, and we look at and the Armed Forces Parliamentary Trust, both of each company and each competitive situation on a which I chair and both of which are supported by the straightforward tender-by-tender basis. I will not go major UK defence companies? They are among the into the details of what the hon. Gentleman stated. greatest defence manufacturers in the world, and I salute them for it. Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): I am sure Will the Minister acknowledge two other groups that the Minister knows that friends of defence on both whose contribution we nurture? First, he mentioned sides of the House wish to campaign for the 3% of small and medium-sized enterprises several times. I GDP,as recommended by successive Defence Committees, welcome the fact that there will be a refresher on the to be spent on defence, but to do that, we need accurate action plan produced during this year. When he does figures. Does the Minister accept that the black hole in produce that refresher, will he please do two things? the defence budget was correctly described as £17 billion? First, will he increase the number of direct contracts How much of that £17 billion would be met by cuts and between the Ministry of Defence and the SMEs? Otherwise cancellations? How much would be topped up by money those SMEs risk being squeezed out by the original from the extra £24 billion, and, at the end of the equipment manufacturers. process, how much of the extra £24 billion will be left Secondly, will the Minister strengthen the contractual for new projects? obligations on OEMs to use British SMEs? I understand his concerns about sovereign capability and I very much Jeremy Quin: It is interesting to hear that there are welcome his commitment to use British manufacturers colleagues in the House wishing to campaign for 3% of as much as he possibly can in the future, but will he also GDP to be spent on defence. recognise and support the very many companies that are overseas in ownership, but that make a huge Dr Lewis: For a long time. contribution to our defence? Boeing, Raytheon and Elbit all spring to mind, and Leonardo has already been Jeremy Quin: My right hon. Friend says that to a mentioned. They employ large numbers of people and Minister for Defence Procurement who is interested to make a huge contribution to our defence overseas, even hear it. I think we have a good settlement this time if they are actually owned by overseas companies. round. I am sure that he welcomes the extra £24 billion and regards it as a very good step forward for the Jeremy Quin: On OEMs, my hon. Friend is absolutely defence of our country. right to draw attention to the fine international companies I do not recognise the £17 billion number, but there that choose to base themselves here. They make a real was a black hole—of that there is no doubt; we said contribution to our economy and to our defence sector that the equipment plan was not affordable. We recognise in the UK. We will continue to be uniquely open to the that there will be programmes as part of the equipment companies of friends and allies overseas choosing to plan that we want to take forward, so within the £24 billion locate, build and manufacture here in the UK, as well as there will be programmes that we were hoping to finance to apply research and technology and development, and but did not have the money for, including the Type 26s I absolutely thank them for it. He mentioned Boeing. and the Type 31s. The equipment plan will be published That is one example of a company that has been assiduous in due course, and my right hon. Friend will be able to in making opportunities available to UK SMEs. It sees get all the details he wishes, and more, from that. it as a great way of tapping into more skills and increasing its resilience. I welcome what it and many others do in Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): On exercise last terms of making certain that there are opportunities for year, our Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier was heavily UK smaller companies as part of their supply chain. reliant on Marine Corps F-35 planes. It is great that our There are two things that we can do. The first is that allies helped out then. However, given the small number we will see an increase in direct company awards to of UK F-35s that have been programmed, does the smaller companies, but that is because of the nature of Minister accept that if both our carriers are deployed at how defence is changing. As we become more digital, the same time, we will be heavily reliant on US planes in more cyber, there are many smaller companies that can the future? produce the goods in these areas and it becomes a less capital-intensive business. The second thing is that, Jeremy Quin: Tosay “helped out”is a little ungenerous. through the social value part of the tender process, we I think the Marine Corps genuinely enjoy working with will be able to be more descriptive as to what we are the Royal Navy, as the hon. Gentleman acknowledges, expecting to see from companies. In that respect, I very and we have a very close working relationship with much welcome the fact that, on Boxer, we expect to see them. We have committed to 48 F-35s, which will arrive 60% of all that supply chain flowing through from UK by 2025. We have not announced how many, but we will companies. be buying more F-35s. We will take that decision by Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab) [V]: I 2025, when the full complement of 48 have arrived. am fully supportive of having smarter procurement to support British industry and home-grown jobs, but Holly Mumby-Croft (Scunthorpe) (Con) [V]: I welcome given that Serco has ripped off the Ministry of Justice, this strategy, along with the Defence Command Paper. failed on test and trace, and, in the defence sector, also The Minister will know that world-class steel made in failed on the Atomic Weapons Establishment, what Scunthorpe was used to build the hull of HMS Queen assurances can the Minister give the House that our Elizabeth. Will he do all he can to ensure that UK-made sensitive defence infrastructure will be protected from it steel continues to be used wherever possible in defence in the coming years? contracts? 813 Defence and Security Industrial 23 MARCH 2021 Defence and Security Industrial 814 Strategy Strategy Jeremy Quin: My hon. Friend is right that the vast Minister has highlighted several issues that I felt needed majority of steel on the Queen Elizabeth was from UK to change in defence procurement in my review, which sources. I am delighted at the role that Scunthorpe was published nearly three years ago. I am grateful for played in that, and I hope that there will be many more his comments about it. In this statement, he has opportunities in the future. The shipbuilding programme demonstrated a deep grasp of his brief, on which I we are setting out obviously produces opportunities for congratulate him. UK steel manufacturers. We will make certain that our Key to gaining public and cross-governmental support pipeline is made freely available, and I sincerely hope for increasing defence expenditure is measuring the that there are plenty of opportunities that will be exploited. impact of that spend on the economy, especially the regional impact in helping to level up Britain. That (Wokingham) (Con) [V]: I strongly requires a good handle on data, which is why I welcome the emphasis of the statement on making recommended establishing defence economics as a valuable more in Britain, because we cannot be properly defended tool for the MOD, Defence Equipment and Support, if we rely on imports for crucial things. Is the UK and the defence industry, to help to assess the merits of undertaking a full audit of the designs, intellectual competing investment proposals when allocating spend. property and rare materials we would need to manufacture Will my hon. Friend update the House on the role of all our crucial defence equipment here, were we to face a the joint economic data hub in delivering that information, blockade or other hostile action against our imports? its security for the long term, and the role that it can President Biden is currently carrying out such a supply play in the UK Defence Solutions Centre and the chain analysis for his country. Defence Growth Partnership, of which I should remind Jeremy Quin: As my right hon. Friend will know, the the House I am deputy chairman? supply chains in defence are vast, but it is an analysis that we are undertaking. We are doing it project by Jeremy Quin: I am grateful that my right hon. Friend project, making certain that the most crucial are investigated has been called as the final Member to ask a question, if first, but we are doing an analysis of our supply chains, that is still the case, on the statement. It is appropriate and that is being elevated to the Defence Board, to that he should be. In my first week in this role, I spoke at make certain that we have greater oversight of what the defence economics conference, and he presented me goes into our crucial defence kit and equipment. with a copy of his paper, which has been incredibly helpful for me, as it has been for the MOD, not only in Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and introducing the defence prosperity programme in March Strathspey) (SNP) [V]: The Government are procuring 2019 but in laying some of the groundwork for the 80 additional warheads for Trident to stockpile in Scotland, DSIS today. I am sure that as he reads it he will each more than eight times more powerful than the recognise a lot of the themes that emerge. bomb dropped on Hiroshima. The Minister must know Part of that is, indeed, the role of the joint economic that by increasing these weapons of mass destruction, data hub, which has already reached its initial operating his Government are pushing at a new nuclear arms race capacity, and it is conducting a full survey of defence and ending 30 years of gradual nuclear disarmament. Is employment. It will reach full operating capability by that what global Britain is all about? the end of the year. In doing so, it feeds into our analysis critical information about jobs, regional growth, Jeremy Quin: Global Britain is about many things, prosperity and future development. It is really important, and one of those is helping to defend ourselves, our and it lies at the heart of what we are doing with values, our freedoms and our allies. Part of that, as this DSIS—growing the prosperity of our United Kingdom Parliament has agreed, should be maintaining an while at the same time ensuring that we have the kit and independent nuclear deterrent that is credible and minimal. equipment that our people need. I thank my right hon. Of all the declared nuclear states, we have only one Friend for the work that he has conducted, which he delivery mechanism for nuclear weapons, and we maintain continues to conduct, in defence. It was a valuable a minimum credible deterrent. In order to do that, we contribution, and it will help us to make certain that have had to raise the ceiling of the total number of DSIS is the great success that it deserves to be in warheads we are prepared to have. supporting our brilliant defence manufacturers and armed Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con) [V]: I very much welcome forces. the focus of this DSIS on recognising the role that defence can play in contributing to UK prosperity. The 1.47 pm 815 23 MARCH 2021 816

Point of Order First-Aid (Mental Health) Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): On a point of No. 23) order, Madam Deputy Speaker. According to the House papers today, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland 1.49 pm has issued a written statement on the Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2021. I wish to make a point of Dean Russell (Watford) (Con): I beg to move, order about the Government’s intention to pursue the That leave be given to bring in a Bill to make mental health issue of the procurement of abortion services in Northern first-aid part of first-aid training requirements; and for connected Ireland. I am led to believe and understand that there purposes. has been a 200,000% increase in abortions. Do you I can still vividly recall, when I was a teenager, the believe, Madam Deputy Speaker, that it is the role of sound of my sister as she sobbed and cried each night the House to intervene in a devolved matter such as following the news that one of her best friends, someone health, as the topic of abortion was debated only last I had always looked up to, had committed suicide. That week by the Northern Ireland Assembly in the correct was nearly 30 years ago, but I can still recall it like it was forum? Do you further share my concern, Madam yesterday: the pain, the loss and the biggest question of Deputy Speaker, that the connotations of the actions by all: could I have done something to change their mind? the Secretary of State reverberate throughout every As I stand here today, I know I cannot change the past, devolved nation represented in the House? I believe that but perhaps with this Bill I can—we can—change the the House must send a clear message that devolution future. means devolution, even if it does not suit the agenda of The Bill makes a simple request: to make mental some in this House. health first aid part of normal physical workplace first aid in workplaces across the country. In doing so, we Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): I may not only save lives but change lives too. My proposal thank the hon. Gentleman for giving me notice of his is a simple one. It is to ask not for a recommendation or point of order. I have not seen any statement, which I a guideline but for a law to ensure that all workplaces do not think has been published yet, and nor have I seen have the right capacity to deal with people who may be the instrument in question, so I can make no comment going through difficulties. We now live in a society on the detail of those matters. However, I recognise the where mental health issues are on the rise, and as a point that the hon. Gentleman is making about the society today we have a greater appreciation than ever desirability of open and thorough debate on important before of the importance of mental wellbeing, so there matters such as the one that he has raised. I am sure must be a time now for a small change to make a big that Ministers will have heard—I am looking for nods— impact. what he has said, and the Government will take seriously the points that he has made, particularly about the I want to assure colleagues that the Bill is not asking process of devolution and the way in which it relates to too much of business. Just as physical first aiders are matters that are debated in the House. I thank him. not expected to be trained doctors or paramedics, mental health first aiders are not expected to be counsellors or full-time psychotherapists. The training simply provides the skills for the first aider to identify, understand and help someone who may be experiencing a mental health issue. This could be done through mandating accredited mental health first aider training, or perhaps just through requiring the inclusion of the existing Public Health England psychological first aid training. The proposal in the Bill is not new to Parliament. Over two years ago, thanks to the excellent work of Natasha Devon and the Where’s Your Head At campaign, for which I am now proud to be an official ambassador, this topic was debated in a Backbench Business Committee debate. We all know, though, that times have changed dramatically since then. Given the impact of the covid crisis on the mental health of the nation, the world is drastically different today.Back then, this was important; today, it is both urgent and essential. The proposal to have a mental health first aider in every workplace is not unrealistic. In my own constituency of Watford, I set an ambition to train 1,000 mental health first aiders, and with the incredible support of Camelot, Watford chamber of commerce, the Wellspring Church and many other community champions, we are making this a reality. I want Watford to be a wellbeing town, but perhaps we could make the UK a wellbeing country, where loneliness has no place to hide and mental wellbeing is the norm. It may take years, but we are beginning to take the steps to do so and we are inspiring others too. For example, my hon. Friend the 817 First-Aid (Mental Health)23 MARCH 2021 First-Aid (Mental Health) 818

Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie) has already us all. By spotting early warning signs and signposting signed up 100 people to train as mental health first people to the right guidance at the right time in the right aiders, and I am sure that many others will follow. place, we can ensure early support. This Bill will help to But the Bill aims even higher. It will mean that every make it okay to ask somebody in the workplace if they workplace will have a mental health first aider. Just are okay. We cannot say enough times that it is not a imagine what impact that could have and the people it weakness to ask for help: it is a strength. could help before they required more urgent support. It I have a phrase you have may heard before, Madam would mean that the first aiders in every workplace Deputy Speaker,which is that hope is an acronym—HOPE: would not just save lives through CPR but change lives help one person everyday. With this Bill, we could help by asking people how they are. Just as workplaces are millions. To be clear, the Bill is not asking for billions diverse, from offices to barber shops and train stations from the Treasury.It is not contentious.It helps individuals, to supermarkets, each member of staff is also different. business, society and the economy, and it could help the They are our mothers, our brothers, our sisters and our nation heal as we all emerge from this unprecedented fathers. They are the veterans and they are the volunteers. crisis. Surely, if suicide were a virus, would we not be They are all of us: all the experiences and all the searching for a vaccine, and if loneliness were a disease, emotions that we each carry with us, in times of grief, would we not be attempting to find a cure? loneliness, anxiety, stress, love and loss. In the coming months and years, we as a nation will But this is not just an emotional argument for the need to come to terms with the impact of covid. We Bill: there are very sound business and economic reasons will hug each other once more. We will sing and we will to support it. According to FirstCare, 2018 marked the dance and we will drink with each other, together. But first year where mental health related absences became as we return together to the workplace, we will also the leading cause of lost work days—imagine that. It is need to grieve together. We will have to face our fears estimated that one in seven workers who have taken together. We will have to mourn our loved ones and our time off due to covid related issues will also take time missing colleagues together,and share our stories together. off due to poor mental health. It is also estimated that I truly believe that this Bill will play a small, practical workers who take sick leave more than twice are 63% more part in ensuring that our nation can heal together too. likely to leave their job. This is a big issue for business. I humbly request that this Bill be given due consideration At the truly heartbreaking moment when we look at and passed into law. I ask the Government, with great these figures, there is an even starker example. When a respect: if not now, when; and if not, why not? person takes their own life, it is estimated that the full Question put and agreed to. cost to the country, from court cases to funerals to Ordered, coroners’fees, is £1.7 million for every individual suicide— never mind the devastating loss that is caused. That Dean Russell, , Virginia Crosbie, James Sunderland, Dr Luke Evans, Robin Millar, Antony I know the Government are taking mental health Higginbotham, Jerome Mayhew, Mark Logan, Duncan seriously, especially with the impact of covid. Baker, Tom Hunt and Jeff Smith present the Bill. Unprecedented sums of money are being spent on mental health—£14 billion in the past year. I am also Dean Russell accordingly presented the Bill. pleased that the Health and Safety Executive has included Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time mental health first aid in its official guidelines. However, tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 278). the Bill would build on all that. Given the toll that the pandemic has had on our nation’s mental health, this Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): On proposal cannot be controversial. Just as having physical that happy note, I will now briefly suspend the House first aiders is the norm and has been for decades, this for three minutes so that preparations can be made for Bill gives parity to mental health. the next item of business. As we move forward, surely it is only right that we do not put all the pressure of tackling the stigma of mental 1.59 pm health on our incredible healthcare sector—it is upon Sitting suspended. 819 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 820 Agency Bill Advanced Research and Invention The Bill will also signal a 10-year grace period before Agency Bill the power to dissolve the agency can be exercised. The agency will be focused exclusively, as I have said, on [Relevant documents: Third Report of the Science and high-risk research. It requires patience and a laser-like Technology Committee, A new UK research funding agency, focus as necessary conditions for success. HC 778, and oral evidence taken before the Science and Technology Committee on 17 March, on A new UK research Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): My right funding agency, HC 778] hon. Friend is making a strong case and refers to the Second Reading work of the Vaccine Taskforce. In the past year, we have seen astonishing science conducted at breakneck speed 2.3 pm because we have been in a crisis. Does he agree that for The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial ARIA to work we need somehow to harness that sense Strategy (Kwasi Kwarteng): I beg to move, That the Bill of crisis and continue to use it in a normal period to get be now read a Second time. this sort of high-risk and high-reward research out and I should like to start my remarks by drawing attention developed in Britain? to the much-celebrated work of Edward Jenner. I am sure that many of us appreciate his work. He is often Kwasi Kwarteng: The circumstances in which we have referred to as the father of immunology; he was a developed the Vaccine Taskforce have been really British physician who created the world’s first vaccine. unfortunate, with this terrible pandemic, but the very As I am sure all hon. Members know, he was an thin silver lining around the cloud has been this remarkable apprentice to a surgeon in Chipping Sodbury in the vaccine rollout. My hon. Friend is right that ARIA constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Thornbury needs to learn from what we have learned collectively and Yate (Luke Hall). Mr Jenner essentially discovered from the vaccine rollout. immunisation. When we consider the coronavirus that Our objective is for ARIA to fund research in new has devasted our country and the world this year and and innovative ways. The Bill provides the agency with last year, Jenner’s work takes on a particular resonance. significant powers that are necessary for it to perform Thanks to the UK’s historic funding for research and its function. the groundbreaking action of scientists at Oxford University, Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab): The right hon. a British vaccine is once again helping us to return to a Gentleman says that the agency is modelled on the more normal life. It has shown us all the incredible American example, but the American example very benefits that breakthrough science and technology can clearly has a client. Which is the client Department for provide. Building on our country’s proud history of this Bill? wonderful inventions,I was particularly pleased to announce the creation of the Advanced Research and Invention Kwasi Kwarteng: Forgive me, I did not say that it was Agency last month. I am sure that it will play a unique modelled on that example. I said that it was inspired, and exciting role in the UK’s research and development and I referred allusively, in my usual way, to historical system. precedent. I never said that it was modelled exactly on The new agency will be characterised by a sole focus the American example. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman on funding high-risk, high-reward research. It will have will make a fuller contribution to the debate. strategic and cultural autonomy. It will invest in the Let me make some progress. Different funding methods judgment of able people, and it will also enjoy flexibility obviously suit different projects. ARIA may seek to use and a wide degree of operational freedom. I have spoken seed grants. It will have inducement prizes. It may make with many of our leading scientists, researchers and its own investments in companies. All of these different innovators and their message has been absolutely clear. approaches will drive innovation, and that will allow I am convinced that these features will make ARIA ARIA to target, for example, a Scottish university or a succeed. start-up in Wales and to ensure that The creation of ARIA is part of a concerted action researchers across the UK can contribute to developing by this Government to cement the UK’s position as a the key technologies for tomorrow. science superpower. With £800 million committed to ARIA will also have strategic independence. It will, ARIA by 2024-25, the new agency will contribute extremely as I have said, have the freedom to fail; it will have the effectively to our R&D ecosystem. As set out in our freedom to take a long-term view and to experiment policy statement published only last week, we have to with new ways of funding the most ambitious research, give ARIA significant powers and freedoms and a which experience tells us is a necessary ingredient for mandate to be bold. To deliver that, we have introduced some of the best results. A key part of this freedom will the ARIA Bill. be trusting the leadership of ARIA to identify and The Bill recognises that funding transformational decide on areas of research with perhaps the greatest long-term science requires patience and a high risk potential. The Bill limits the ability for Ministers, as it appetite. The Bill explicitly states that ARIA may give should do, to intervene in ARIA’s day-to-day operations weight to the potential of significant benefits when or to direct funding decisions. Instead, ARIA will have funding research that carries a high risk of failure. This a highly skilled team of leadership programme managers freedom to fail is fundamental to ARIA’s model, and who, supported by the board, will ensure strong strategic the provision will empower its leaders to make ambitious oversight over the portfolio of programmes. As the Bill research and funding decisions. When we look back in makes clear, ARIA must have regard to the benefits of history, to the 1950s and 1960s, we see that with this that research to the UK—to the people of this country—in approach a US agency called the Advanced Research terms of not only economic growth but trying to ensure Projects Agency developed GPS as well as the precursor that innovation can improve the quality of life of all our to the . fellow subjects. 821 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 822 Agency Bill Agency Bill Our response to coronavirus as a nation has shown because I cannot nod to them or grimace at them to let that agility is crucial in funding research in this fast-moving them know when they have spoken for too long. Five world. All of this work builds on action already taken minutes would be just about right for everyone who by the Government and by UK Research and Innovation wishes to speak to have the opportunity to do so. to reduce unnecessary bureaucracy in the wider ecosystem. We have learned from agencies such as DARPA in the 2.16 pm US—the hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner) will be pleased to learn that—which has shown that we Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): Let me need to go several steps further in creating a culture that start by saying that across the House we share the is primarily focused on pursuing high-risk research. admiration for British science. It is one of our most There is a cultural need in such an organisation for brilliant national assets, employing nearly 1 million autonomy and a measure of dynamism, which can be people directly and generating extraordinary value for achieved through exceptional leadership and, perhaps our country. As the Secretary of State eloquently said, most importantly, through a flat, streamlined structure. the work on vaccines has been truly remarkable. We commend our scientists and everyone involved for their ARIA will benefit from being a small and nimble work. Indeed, I hope the Secretary of State will not agency. It will create a unique environment for its mind my saying that it is a successful example of an programme managers to be completely focused on their industrial strategy; the right hon. Member for Tunbridge particular research proposal. The Bill therefore provides Wells () probably shares my view. ARIA with some additional but proportionate freedoms, I turn to the details of the Bill. I should say from the which are not generally found in the rest of our system. beginning that we support the Bill; we have some issues For example, it exempts ARIA from public contracting with it, but we certainly support its aims. I just want to rules. That will allow ARIA to procure R&D services say something about the wider context, because I found and equipment relating to its research goals in a similar it slightly remarkable that the Secretary of State did not way to a private sector organisation. To ensure that that mention the fact that we are two weeks from the start of process is transparent, it sits alongside a commitment in the next financial year but the scientific community the Bill to audit ARIA’s procurement activities. does not know its budget, and the Government appear In order to further this research-intensive culture, to be contemplating significant cuts to its programmes. ARIA has been given extensive freedoms. However, we The Secretary of State said last week to the Science will ensure, as the Bill does, that the organisation submits and Technology Committee, which is chaired by the a statement of accounts and an annual report on its right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells, that the activities, which will be laid directly before Parliament. Government Those commitments to transparency will sit alongside “are talking the talk of a science superpower…but…we also have the customary and necessary scrutiny by the National to walk the walk.” Audit Office. Quite. We support the intent of the Advanced Research It is clear that ARIA will be a unique and extremely and Invention Agency, but hon. and right hon. Members valuable addition in our research landscape. It will across the House should be aware that while the ARIA create a more diverse, more dynamic and creative funding budget is £800 million over this Parliament, UK Research system, which will ensure that transformative ideas, and Innovation’s annual budget is £9 billion. Last week, wherever they may come from, can change people’s lives UKRI published a letter confirming that the BEIS for the better. official development assistance allocation will lead to a I am very conscious that there is a huge amount of £120 million gap between its allocation and the interest in this debate on the Back Benches on both commitments that it has already made. It warned of sides of the House. I have committed myself not to go cuts coming on that scale, and the House should be on for two hours or whatever the customary length of aware of where those cuts are going to be. Potential time might be. Having been a Back Bencher myself, I areas include climate change, antimicrobial resistance, know that it is often frustrating to hear Front Benchers pandemics, renewable energy and water sanitation. Those trench on parliamentary time. As a consequence, I hope are the kinds of things that that funding addresses. that hon. and right hon. Members will agree that, as we Mr Cummings was also at the Select Committee meeting—I build back better, we can have a full debate today about will return to him shortly—saying that ARIA would the merits of ARIA and its necessary existence. I hope solve the problems of civilisation. That is all very well, that the Bill will show the Government’sstrong commitment but I fear that these cuts seem to be coming right here, to building on a wonderful research base. On that basis, right now; and we cannot launch a successful moonshot I commend the Bill to the House. if we cut off the power supply to the space station. The other fear that we have is that the threat of cuts Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): This does not end there, because there is no clarity on how to is an opportune moment for me to give notice to people cover the huge cost of the UK’s ongoing participation who are hoping to speak in the debate—those here in in Horizon Europe programme.Tobe clear,this programme the Chamber, but particularly those at home who perhaps used to be funded not from the science budget, but from might not pick up the atmosphere and be tempted to do our EU contributions. I say to the Secretary of State the opposite of what the Secretary of State has just said that it surely cannot be right to take money from the by taking rather longer than they ought to take. I am science budget to fund our participation. He will know going to try to run this Second Reading debate without that there is real fear in the scientific community about a formal time limit, in the hope that Members will act that. reasonably and unselfishly towards their colleagues, I will give the Secretary of State the chance to intervene: and keep their speeches to about five to six minutes, or does he not agree that cutting the science budget to less. I say this particularly to people who are at home, fund Horizon would be exactly talking the talk but not 823 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 824 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Edward Miliband] and, in our view, more sensible approach—one more consistent with the lessons of DARPA—is that Government walking the walk? I will happily give way to him if he should set a clear mandate and framework for ARIA wants to tell us. Maybe he can tell us when we will get and then get out of the way and not interfere with its clarity—when will the scientific community get clarity day-to-day decision-making. I also believe there is a on how the Horizon money will be funded? He does not democratic case, because the priority goals for the spending want to intervene, but the science community deserves of £800 million over this Parliament should be driven clarity. We support ARIA but it deserves clarity. These by democratic choices; not about the specific items that are people’s jobs. This is incredibly important work and it funds, but about the goals and mission. I hope he is fighting with his friends in the Treasury That takes me to the three points that I want to make: as hard as he can to give people that clarity and avoid first, about the mandate for ARIA; secondly, about its the cuts. position in the wider R&D system; and thirdly, about accountability. I will try to emulate the Secretary of Kwasi Kwarteng rose— State’s brevity—perhaps not exactly his brevity, but as much as I can. Edward Miliband: Maybe he is going to tell us the news. The deputy director of DARPA says about its success that Kwasi Kwarteng: The right hon. Gentleman will know “having national security as the mission frames everything.” from his years in government—appreciably, many years The Secretary of State said to the right hon. Member ago now—that these conversations with the Treasury for Tunbridge Wells at the Science and Technology are ongoing, and we hope to get a satisfactory result. Committee: Edward Miliband: Weshall look forward to the Secretary “If I were in your position, I would be asking what the core missions of ARIA are.” of State getting a satisfactory result. I am not sure that I always got a satisfactory result with the Treasury,although I think the point that Dominic Cummings made, or I I was in the Treasury at one point, at least as an adviser. am sure would have made, is that this will be a job for This is very important and, as I say, people’s jobs and the people we hire who are running the organisation. livelihoods and the scientific base of this country, of The Secretary of State went on: which we are all so proud, depend on it. “It will be up to the head of ARIA to decide whether he or she Let me come to the Bill, which we support. The Bill is thinks the organisation should adopt what the innovation strategy suggests…or reject it.” important—the Secretary of State said this—because there is incredible work going on in the scientific community, I really understand the wish to give freedom to ARIA, but there is consensus that there is a lack of a mechanism but surely it is for Government to shape and not shirk to identify, build and fund truly ambitious, high-risk, the setting of priorities, and it is not just DARPA where high-reward programmes. We recognise the case for an we can learn that lesson. Moonshot R&D—the Japanese independent agency that operates outside the established agency established in 2019 to fund challenging R&D—has research funding mechanisms, but we feel that the Bill seven specific moonshot goals set by the Japanese requires improvement. Government, and my understanding from the evidence taken by the Science and Technology Committee is that I guess our concerns cohere into a different view the UK scientific community agrees with that idea. about the role of Government and the lessons of DARPA, which my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge I notice the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Daniel Zeichner) talked about, on which in some broad (Richard Fuller) putting his head in his hands. He has sense—maybe not in the Secretary of State’s mind, but done that before when I speak, but let me just make this in others’ minds—ARIA is modelled. It is impossible to point in seriousness: £800 million is not in the scheme of ignore what we might call the spectre of Dom in this things a huge amount of money,certainly when compared debate. He was at the Science and Technology with UKRI’s budget. The concern is that unless, as the Committee—chaired by the right hon. Member for Select Committee said, ARIA focuses on a single or a Tunbridge Wells—and he does rather hang over this small number of missions, it will dilute its impact. Bill. He is its sort of governmental godfather. In his Take the net zero challenge. I believe it is a challenge telling, DARPA’s success—I think this is important—is of political will and imagination, but it is also a technological simply because the Government got out of the way and challenge. If it is the No. 1 international challenge, as let a bunch of buccaneering individuals do what they the PM said last week, and if it is the No. 1 domestic liked. It is definitely true, as I understand it, that DARPA challenge, as I think it is, why would it not be the right has important lessons about the need for the culture mandate for ARIA for at least its first five years? that I talked about, including higher reward and, of Indeed, Professor Richard Jones and Professor Mariana necessity, a higher chance of failure, but it is simply not Mazzucato, who perhaps have even greater claims than true that DARPA was somehow totally detached from Dom to being godfather and godmother of this idea, Government. DARPA had an obvious client—the said that climate change would be an ideal challenge on Department of Defense—a clear mandate around defence- which an agency such as ARIA would focus. To be related research, a clear synergy in its work with the clear,providing a mandate does not mean micro-managing procurement power of the US DOD and, incidentally, decisions, and it would be grossly simplistic to suggest abided by laws on freedom of information. otherwise. I want to suggest that there are two different views about ARIA: one is that we should let the organisation Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con): The simply do what it wants, relying on the wisdom of a right hon. Gentleman tempts me to my feet, first, genius chair and chief executive; and the other subtler because I think he does a tremendous disservice to 825 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 826 Agency Bill Agency Bill Dominic Cummings. Without his inspiration, this Bill that body of work. What incentive would it have to try would not be before this House. Secondly, I do not to replicate it when it could pursue new, disruptive and know whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware of the exciting opportunities? chart that Mr Cummings showed while giving evidence to the Select Committee. It showed a large circle of Edward Miliband: That just makes the case; if what areas with potential for people to investigate and a the hon. Gentleman says is the case, would it not be a smaller segment of that, which is where all of the good idea, as the former Science Minister Lord Johnson foreign Governments and our Government focus their suggested, for ARIA to share information with UKRI, research, precisely because they are driven by the political for the two bodies to work effectively together and for decisions, frameworks and missions that politicians set. the agencies to enter into a memorandum of understanding, Does the right hon. Gentleman not think there is which will benefit us all? If it is as easy as that, I am sure some opportunity for us to do something slightly that will not be a problem for ARIA. I have been called different and without the sticky fingers of Government many things in my time, but a secret Cummings-ite? interfering? Perhaps not. I have been called worse things. If it is as simple as that, they should be able to work together, Edward Miliband: The hon. Gentleman and I have a and I hope the Secretary of State will reflect both on the respectful disagreement on this: I think it is for the mandate question and on this life cycle question. Government of the day and this House to say what are Thirdly, let me turn to the issue of Government the massive national priorities.Then it is for an organisation oversight and public accountability. We believe it is such as ARIA to fund the research in the high-risk, right that ARIA should be given operational independence high-reward way that I mentioned. That is simply a from Government. As I say, we support the idea of difference of view. Without a clear policy mission, we specifying high tolerance to risk and failure. The challenge risk a fragmented approach. for public policy is how to establish this tolerance of I will make this other point, which is that the chair failure. Obviously it starts with the agency’s leadership, and chief executive will be in the somewhat unenviable where the Bill is also very vague on what attributes or position of having to decide which Government skills the Secretary of State is looking for.My understanding Departments to prioritise. Of course they can work is that this position is not going to be recruited outside with different Departments, but let us set a clear challenge the normal civil service procedures—okay, I think I for the organisation. understand the reasons for that—but it cannot just be The second point is not just about the question of decided on the whim of the Secretary of State, brilliant mandate, but how it sits in the life cycle of technological though he is. I hope the Minister will clarify this during innovation and how it works with other funding streams. the passage of the Bill. There does need to be an answer ARIA is born of a frustration about the failure to fund on who else from the scientific and research community high-risk research. We do not disagree with that thinking, will have a say on the decision and how this person is but that makes it especially important that it does not going to be chosen, given that, in the Government’s own duplicate the work of existing funding streams. Let me words, they will have give an example. Innovate UK, part of UKRI, is supposed “a significant effect on the technological and strategic capabilities to be a funding stream to turn ideas into commercially of the UK over the course of generations.” successful products. I do not know from reading the On freedom of information, we just strongly disagree Government’s statement of intent what Innovate UK with the Government. I do not think there is justification would fund that ARIA would not and what ARIA for ARIA’sblanket exemption from FOI. The Government would fund that Innovate UK would not. say it is necessary for agility. DARPA is subject to the The vagueness of the mandate for ARIA is matched US version of the Freedom of Information Act. The by vagueness about where in the innovation cycle it sits. Secretary of State and the Minister might be interested I was not doing Mr Cummings a disservice on this score to know that DARPA, in the US, had 47 of these by the way, because I support the Bill, but he said to the requests last year, so this is hardly an obstacle to Select Committee: getting on with the day job. There is a disagreement “My version of it here would be…to accelerate scientific here about how we give public confidence. Just saying discovery far beyond what is currently normal, and to seek that everything should be secret does not give public strategic advantage in some fields of science and technology…I confidence. Accountability matters to the public and we would keep it broad and vague like that.” should have confidence that we can defend the approach He went on to say that he would say to the agency: of the agency. Tris Dyson from Nesta Challenges has “Your job is to find people…with ideas that could change said: civilisation completely”. “The public will expect to know what’s happening with public I am sorry, but that is too vague, and I do not believe it money and greater risk requires transparency and evaluation in unreasonable to say that there needs to be greater order to determine what works.” clarity about where in the life cycle ARIA sits. We also believe there is a role for the Science and Technology Committee in scrutinising ARIA’srole.Perhaps (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): I that can be clarified as the Bill progresses. think the right hon. Gentleman at heart is a secret I am conscious of time, so let me say in conclusion Cummings-ite, because he is constructing a number of that we face enormous challenges as a society, including paper tigers to try to find offence with a Bill that he new threats from disease, as tragically illustrated by the fundamentally wishes his party had thought of first. pandemic, the advent of artificial intelligence and, as I What possible incentive would a new disruptive ARIA have said, the climate emergency. So the challenges we have for trying to replicate the work already being face are huge, but I believe—I know this is shared funded by existing councils? It will have access to all of across the House—that the ingenuity, know-how and 827 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 828 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Edward Miliband] that, because transformational breakthroughs are usually accompanied by failure on the way, and we need to be potential of our scientists, researchers and others is as used to that. great as, if not greater than, the challenges. If we Our report asked questions that I hope will be clarified support them, they can succeed. ARIA can support our as the Bill moves through this House and the other scientific research. We support this Bill as a way to add place. The question of what the agency’s focus will be is capacity and flexibility to our research and innovation a legitimate one, if only for the fact that it is easy to systems. It needs to be done in the right way. On the Bill dissipate £800 million in so many projects that we do and what is happening to British science, we will support not get the transformation that is in prospect. With that the Government when they do the right thing but we budget, and based on the evidence we took, our Committee will also call them out on cuts to science funding, and recommended that the organisation should have no during the passage of the Bill we will seek to improve it more than two focal points. The question of whether it so that it can strengthen our science base and do what is should be about blue-sky research and brand-new thinking, required to help us meet the massive challenges we face without particular regard to the application, or whether as a society. it is looking to turn already nascent good ideas into practical applications, should also be clarified. 2.33 pm The role of Ministers and the chief executive, and the Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con): It is an honour choice of the chief executive, will be important. Our to speak in this debate and to follow the right hon. Committee found that it is very important that, in Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), and pursuing our ambitions for ARIA, which is ultimately to warmly welcome the introduction of this important 1% of our annual research funding, we do not forget the Bill. This is an extraordinary time for science, as the other 99%, given some of the criticisms of bureaucracy Secretary of State and his shadow have made clear. The and micromanagement that have been advanced by interest in and standing of science in this country and friends and to which ARIA is the answer. In fact, the around the world have never been higher during my founding chief executive of UKRI, Sir Mark Walport, lifetime. In a year, we have gone from discovering a thought that this was a good moment to refresh some of lethal new virus to having not just one but multiple the procedures that it operates under. effective vaccines against it. That has never been done Finally, it is important to state that we welcome in the history of science, even going back to Jenner. ARIA because it is in the context of rising science This is a fantastic time for the House to be backing, as it funding. But it is paradoxical that, just at the point that evidently is, further investment in and progress of science we have the biggest increase by far in science funding in the UK. For all the horrors of the last year, some of and the whole scientific community is rejoicing at this the lessons that can be learned already—for example, country embarking on a golden age of scientific research, the testing of new scientific procedures in parallel rather we should unexpectedly have the prospect of cuts to the than in sequence—may, in not too many years’ time, science budget for the next year or two. To put it into save more lives than have been lost during the last year. context, the £2 billion subscription to Horizon, which We need to reinforce this. has never been part of the science budget before, would British science is not just exceptional in the life sciences. amount to about a 25% cut in UKRI’s budget, and the Whether it is in space and satellites, with 40% of the official development assistance reduction would mean small satellites in orbit above the Earth today being £125 million of cancelled projects. made in Britain, or the fact that the next generation of This Bill reinforces the commitment that the Government batteries are being researched by the Faraday Institution and, I hope, the House make to building on the successes in Oxford, we have in this country so many of the pieces of UK and international science. The Secretary of State of science and technology that are transforming the is a serious and committed advocated of this agenda. world. This is at a time when the Government have He was clear and candid when he appeared before the made a historic commitment to invest in science. When Select Committee. The decisions are not all in his hands, I occupied the Secretary of State’s position, I was pretty but I hope that he will continue to battle and, indeed, pleased to negotiate out of the Treasury an increase in persuade his colleagues in the Treasury and the Prime science funding from £9 billion to £12 billion a year—the Minister so that he can, I hope, have a long and flourishing biggest increase that had ever been achieved—but this tenure in his post, presiding over a period for UK Government have committed to an extraordinary increase science that we will look back on as a decisive acceleration to £22 billion a year by the end of this Parliament. That of its potential. is the important context of the Bill. For our inquiry,the Science and Technology Committee 2.40 pm took evidence from people all around the world, including current and former staff of DARPA, and in our report Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP): It is a pleasure of 12 February, we welcomed strongly the £800 million to follow the Chair of the Select Committee on Science being committed to this new institution. Like the Secretary and Technology. Like other Members, I tuned in, eyes of State and the shadow Secretary of State, we recognise wide open, to hear what was said. I look forward to the important contribution that a new body outside the further instalments of that show in the month to come, main research and development system could make, as I am sure others do. I place on record my thanks, as benefiting from a different culture. We saw the benefits other Members have done, for the fantastic work that to be had from transformational research that may be has been undertaken by scientists in the UK in relation riskier than is commonly funded. The House should to the vaccine programme. It is something that unites us expect that quite a lot of the projects undertaken by this all. We all know that it will transform our lives, and we agency will fail, and we should not be quick to criticise are collectively thankful on that front. 829 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 830 Agency Bill Agency Bill I commend the Secretary of State, as he has achieved need to bear in mind DARPA, which has been talked something that is quite remarkable, certainly during my about at length by others. DARPA had that clear focus, short tenure in the House. He appears almost to have and that clear focus has allowed it to excel, in terms of united everyone in vague or cautious support for the GPS, the internet and the like. We should seek to Bill. On the face of it, it is something that we can replicate that, with climate change at the forefront. welcome, but we have concerns, which I shall come on It is regrettable that the Government have not simply to, and reservations that need to be addressed in a made that suggestion, but it is not surprising, because, positive manner, and hopefully the Secretary is willing just last week, they sought to invest billions of pounds to do that. in new nuclear weapons. They could have said, “Here is Before I deal with that, I am conscious that for my £800 million that we are going to invest in trying to save hon. Friend the Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil the planet rather than destroy it.” In relation to the Gray), who is sitting to my left, today is his last day in mission, therefore, the Secretary of State still has a great the Chamber, and he will make some valedictory remarks. deal of work to do. I wish him the best going forward. As everyone in the The second key area that I would like to pick up on is Chamber will be well aware, all Scottish nationalists do in relation to the wider leadership on the Bill. Although not want to be here. He is getting away a little sooner that has been referred to already, we do need to have than the rest of us, but we wish him well, and I am sure clarity about how that process will work. What will be that Members across the Chamber do likewise. its outcome? Who will be the leader, or the leadership Turning, you will be glad to know, Madam Deputy team, that takes this forward? There have been suggestions, Speaker, to the substance of the Bill, I hope that, while I indeed by Dominic Cummings himself, in relation to have made some positive comments, the Secretary of eminent scientists—scientists who, unfortunately, have State will forgive me for saying—perhaps I have picked been excluded from their professional role given the this up wrongly—that his short speech may reflect the comments that have been made in relation to eugenics fact that the Bill is incredibly vague on details. The first and race. Although I appreciate that the Secretary of thing to reflect on in that regard is the wider mission of State may not be in a position to say what the qualifying the Bill. That was addressed at length by the right hon. criteria will be for someone who takes on this role, I Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) and expect him to say what the disqualifying criteria will be. by the Select Committee in its hearing last week. What I certainly expect that someone who projects views of is the Bill trying to achieve? Is it health outcomes, eugenics would fit into that disqualification category. defence outcomes or transport outcomes? The clarity is My third point relates to resources and accountability. not there. I heard what the Chair of the Select Committee I am very conscious of the fact that much of what I am said about having a focus on two issues. That is all well saying is a repetition of what has already been said, but and good, but we do not have those answers yet from that is often true of what is said by everyone in this the Government. We need them moving forward, because House, and I am sure that there will be more of that to there is a real concern and risk that what we have is come. I cannot get my head around this notion that we something that becomes a jack of all trades, but a can throw away freedom of information and public master of none. The Committee said that it was contract processes in order to achieve something. I may “a brand in search of a product”, have incorrectly picked up the hon. Member for North which is entirely apt at this stage. East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller) on that point he The right hon. Member for Doncaster North has made earlier about being inspired to do that. I do not rather stolen my thunder in that regard, because I want see it as inspired. I do not think that the public will see it to discuss what the Bill could seek to do. It could follow as inspired. They certainly will not see it as inspired Scotland’slead. In Scotland, we have the Scottish National coming, as it does, from a Conservative Government, Investment Bank, which has a clear purpose to invest in given what we have seen over a number of months in net-zero technologies. Why do we not replicate that in relation to cronyism and the concerns that we all have the Bill? Why do the Government not put that front and about that. When it comes to public money, public trust centre of their agenda? The hon. Member for North is of paramount importance. Frankly, the Government East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller) is shaking his head, are not being as clear, transparent and open as they and he is more than welcome to intervene, to state why should be about the Bill. climate change should not be at the forefront of the Bill’s agenda. Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): Is the hon. Gentleman aware that UK Research and Innovation Richard Fuller: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman receives about 300 FOI requests a year? A small and for giving me a chance to speak. I want to check that we nimble organisation such as ARIA would be completely are talking about the same aspects of the Bill, because buried under the weight of that many FOI requests. he is trying, while saying what he thinks in a broad way, That is why we are taking the approach that we are here. rather narrowly to define the scope of what research science projects can be. Does he not accept that there is Stephen Flynn: That is an interesting point, but it a tension there, and that the Scottish example is precisely appears that the hon. Gentleman was not listening to not what this is about? what was said earlier in relation to DARPA. I think it was 40 FOI requests for DARPA, which is, obviously, a Stephen Flynn: I reject the suggestion that climate much larger organisation than ARIA will ever be. It is change is a narrow focus given that climate change one that will perhaps attract a lot more focus, and yet covers a whole host of areas. I see the Secretary of State there were just 40 FOI requests. If that is the strength of nodding along with that. Presumably he is in agreement the argument that Government Back Benchers will put having previously been the Minister of State for Business, up in relation to this, then, frankly, it will fall short in Energy and Clean Growth. When we look at this, we the eyes of the public. The reality is that we are talking 831 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 832 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Stephen Flynn] UK research and the work of UK scientists have truly led to inventions that are potentially saving the about £800 million of public money. There will of world. But we cannot rest on our laurels, which is why I course be a tolerance of failure. Everyone accepts that welcome the Government’s ongoing commitment to there must be a tolerance of failure, but there needs to science and research and development. I welcome this be openness and transparency around the process, and, debate and the meeting of our manifesto commitment quite frankly, at this moment in time, there is not. I do to establish a high-risk, high-reward research agency,ARIA. not have confidence that the Government will be able to With your permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, deliver on that front. I wish to talk a little about the wider R&D landscape. I Finally, I just want to touch on what is perhaps the warmly welcome the Government’s ongoing commitment most important aspect of this Bill, which is, unsurprisingly, to making the UK a science superpower.Their commitment in the Scottish context. A total of £800 million will be to spend 2.4% of GDP on R&D by 2027 and the flowing towards this project. How much of that is £22 billion commitment to science in 2024-25 are fantastic coming to Scotland? Will it be Barnettised? Will there but, as we have heard, there is no point in our making be consequentials from it? Is this going to be a UK-wide progress in one area if we are taking funds from another project? If so, why? Why are we not investing in Scotland? to do that. I will not labour the argument about funding Are we trying to undermine the Scottish Parliament for our participation in Horizon Europe, but needless to once again? We have seen it with the United Kingdom say I would like to see that money coming from a Internal Market Act, the levelling-up fund and the different pot rather than the existing ones. shared prosperity fund; are we now seeing it with ARIA, Let us talk about the positives and the investment of too? £800 million in a new advanced research and invention Why do the Government not seek to invest in the agency, based on the principle of high risk and high Scottish Parliament? Why do they not seek to allow the reward and free from Government interference. To make Scottish Government to put the money into the Scottish the most of that, we have to change our view of risk. National Investment Bank, which I have already mentioned, Risk here is good. That requires us to acknowledge—indeed, so that Scotland can create the scientific achievements to embrace—failure as part of the process. that it wants to use to shape our own agenda, particularly—I repeat—in relation to climate change? Why have none For the agency, that is fundamentally about people. It of those things come forward? It appears as though is about having top-quality, confident and knowledgeable Scotland does not exist in the context of this Bill. The people in the right places—the right chair and the right Government seek to talk up the Union; the way to chief executive. It is also about having a command solidify the Union is not to trample continuously over structure that is fleet of foot, which is why I think some the Scottish Parliament, because the people of Scotland of the measures in the Bill to exempt ARIA from FOI are well aware of what is going on in that regard. are the right thing to do. Let me conclude by making one more important ARIA needs to encourage and embrace new and point. We all have concerns about the Bill. It has broad novel ideas in the areas of artificial intelligence, quantum support, but we have concerns that ultimately it will and, potentially, superconductivity. I accept that some become another -centric project, and not only of its endeavours, if not many of them, will fail, but that but one that gets hijacked by the right wing of the even where there are failures, I still want its culture to be Tory party for its own ends. That is not something we one of encouraging future submissions—a culture where are willing to support. project managers are not judged on individual outcomes that encourage them to play safe. 2.50 pm ARIA should be judged as a whole, and only after a Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) reasonable time. It should work with both the usual (Con) [V]: I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute suspects—the established research bodies—and potential to this important debate on the creation of the Advanced sectoral disrupters. If we are searching for inventions, Research and Invention Agency. ARIA also needs the ability to work with individuals who may have promising ideas but not necessarily the As they say, necessity is the mother of all invention, resources or experience to make them work. ARIA has and that necessity has never been greater as we try to a role there to help people find the right development build back better following the huge consequences of path. the pandemic. It is fitting that we should hold this debate today, as we mark the one-year anniversary of While there will be failures, I am sure there will be the lockdown. As well as looking back over the past many successes, so I would like to hear more about how year, the Bill gives us an opportunity to look forward. a successful ARIA-funded project will make the transition Before I look forward, I want to look back at the from lab bench to product or service. The UK has a incredible contribution that UK scientists have made to great track record of innovation and invention, but we scientific endeavour and their list of achievements. Over do not have the best track record of commercialisation—of centuries, the UK has been responsible for many great turning an idea into an industry that keeps the rewards discoveries and inventions—from the first refracting here in the UK and provides our citizens with well-paid, telescope in 1668 to the discovery and understanding rewarding jobs. of DNA, and from the humble tin can to the jet ARIA needs to help research to cross the so-called engine. Probably the most poignant today is, as we have valley of death, and it needs to be alive to that challenge. already heard, the development of the first vaccine It needs to work with ideas to ensure that they do not more than 225 years ago in 1796. That discovery is fail due to a lack of funding, support or interest. If an helping the UK and the world to tackle the ravages of idea is novel enough that it has potential, ARIA needs covid today. to support it until it can hand it off in the confidence 833 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 834 Agency Bill Agency Bill that it will be in safe hands and that it will thrive. There Cameron-Osborne years, when they were promoting is no point having taxpayer-funded research or invention Tech City in London, that we already have a tech city; it only for it to fail through lack of practical support. is called Cambridge and it is just up the railway line, I welcome this Bill. The creation of ARIA gives us a along a powerful innovation corridor that has huge fantastic opportunity to fill a gap in the current landscape, potential. and I very much look forward to working with Ministers There are other powerful voices who identify a very as we take the Bill forward and reap the benefits that it different problem from the one that it is suggested can provide us with. ARIA might address. Take David Sainsbury and David Connell. Lord Sainsbury is a highly regarded former 2.57 pm Science Minister; look at the work he did a few years Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab): It is a real pleasure ago on economic growth, in which he cautioned—sensibly, to follow the hon. Member for South Basildon and East in my view—against trying to import systems from Thurrock (Stephen Metcalfe). Anyone who has attended elsewhere and expecting them somehow to work in a the annual STEM for Britain event hosted by the different culture. He also rightly queried the lack of co- Parliamentary and Scientific Committee, which he chairs, ordination of research across Government Departments will know that we are a country not short of brilliant —an issue that I suspect is yet to be seriously addressed. ideas and young people—and many of them, I have to David Connell has been a passionate advocate over say, come from Cambridge. many years of small business research initiatives— something we have adopted and adapted from the However, that immediately begs the question, is ARIA Americans—and of using contracts rather than grants a solution in search of a problem? As the excellent and driving innovation through procurement. That idea Science and Technology Committee report put it—I has too limited an uptake, I would say, and needs a congratulate the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells stronger champion in Government. Is DARPA really a (Greg Clark) and his colleagues on that—is it model for the UK? Well, the US has an infamous “a brand in search of a product”? military-industrial complex and we have nothing similar We have heard a lot about Dominic Cummings. I just here. Who will be the client? The Secretary of State caution Government Members that they may not want seemed to be touchy about this, but whether it is learned to associate themselves too closely with a man who, in from, not modelled on, is a key question. the public’s mind, is very much associated with one set The obvious question about whether the current system of rules for some and a very different set of rules for can be reformed to address some of these concerns is them. Many will wonder why a vanity project designed also not answered, and some of the potential problems to assuage the ego of one key adviser is being pursued have been made worse by decisions the Government by the Government when they have finally had the sense have already taken, or sort of taken. Reference has been to ditch that adviser—or was it that he ditched them? made to the disappearing industrial strategy, which Who knows? We will be generous, and I will ask an must be rather galling for the right hon. Member for open question: can we do better? Tunbridge Wells, given the effort that he and others put Of course, our answer as a country is always yes, but in and the huge amount of work done across so many if this is really about setting people free—and who does sectors. What is to replace it? Perhaps the Minister can not want to cut the bureaucracy and set people free?—is tell us later. Perhaps it is nothing, but the mission-oriented it not curious that just yesterday, the Government approach that ARIA points to and is widely welcomed announced a review, to be led by Professor Adam replaces, frankly, something remarkably similar. As we Tickell, the not “bog-standard” vice-chancellor of the have heard, the great challenges are not that different, University of Sussex, of the whole issue of bureaucracy but for iconoclasts, of course, everything that went in our research sector? I suggest that there is muddle, before has to be laid to waste. Not a very British not least around the problem we are trying to solve. approach, I would say. What is very British is the Could we do better? The landscape of research funding tradition of paying public servants badly. If ARIA can is complex. UKRI is a relatively new organisation, but free up pay levels, good, but it really does not need an there are some long-established principles in this country— ARIA to do that, so stop making a song and dance the Haldane principle, dual funding and QR, or quality- about it; get on and do it. related research funding. Add Horizon, and there is a All this is important because we have excellence. How balance in there. Add the catapults launched a few years ironic that the Government have turned a potential ago under the coalition and the result, if we are not good-news story into a story about cuts. As we have careful, is lots of people competing for the same funding. heard, Universities UK estimates that if the cost of It is not simple, and it is frequently a subject of discussion Horizon association is taken out of UKRI, it will cost in Cambridge, as I am sure the House can imagine. To 18,000 research jobs. That would certainly be a big hit be frank, in Cambridge the general view is that the issue to cities like mine. At the weekend, Stephen Toope, the is not finding the breakthrough ideas, but how they are ’s vice-chancellor, warned that developed and taken forward, as the hon. Member for Government claims about global Britain risked ringing South Basildon and East Thurrock just said. hollow. As he says, Sadly, we have very few home-grown unicorns like “World-leading research cannot just be turned off like a tap. Arm, although we have done better over the past 30 years Once our highly trained young researchers leave our universities because we have a strong investor community in Cambridge they will not come back, and once they leave the country they will and real efforts are made through organisations such as not return.” Cambridge Enterprise to develop our spin-outs.Thoughtful He is so right. I visit many labs in and around Cambridge— contributions have been made by entrepreneurs such as the magnificent Laboratory of Molecular Biology being David Cleevely, who rightly pointed out throughout the just one of them—but what strikes anyone who goes 835 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 836 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Daniel Zeichner] the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), when he said that we should choose a couple of focal points for into any of them is that it is an international microcosm, ARIA. That really gets to the point, because the question with people from all across the globe. We are good would then be, did we choose the right focal points? I because good people want to be here, but they can am not sure that that is something the Bill is seeking to always go somewhere else. I tell the House, there are do with this agency. plenty of people who want them and plenty of inducements. I want to ask some questions, and perhaps the Minister Then there are the ODA cuts—so foolish, for so many can cover them in her summing up or perhaps we can reasons, not least the threat to our diplomatic soft cover them in Committee. Many hon. Members have power at a time when China is ramping up its influence spoken about the importance of the programme manager everywhere. I am told that institutions have been sending in DARPA. I looked at the worked case example cited letters to researchers who already have grant letters in the policy statement released for ARIA. In it, somebody telling them that those grant letters will not be honoured. was recruited on the basis of a £50,000 grant and a The system has worked for decades based on trust, and three-month project. Subsequently,on review,they would, that is now being undermined. That is a clear message in this example, be granted £20 million for further that with this Government, Britain cannot be trusted to research. I would say to my right hon. and hon. Friends keep its word. There is nothing that ARIA can do that on the Front Bench that there are three key tensions will repair the damage—the huge damage to trust—that there that we need to tease out. has already been caused and is continuing to be caused. The first is that that approach places tremendous We need a fightback within Government. Last week, responsibility on the evaluation of those initial projects, I encouraged the Minister to seek operatic inspiration, so how do we see that going? What are we thinking but far from “Vincero”—I will win—from “Nessun about in terms of the framework in which that evaluation Dorma”, her reaction was more, “When I am laid in will take place? That seems a very thin basis for the earth” from “Dido’s Lament”. That is Puccini’s Dido, initial judgment—it is not wrong, but it is a thin basis. not Track and Trace’s, I hasten to add. We need so much more. UK research is a success story. Please stop Secondly, the appointments of the chief executive doing unnecessary harm. In my view, ARIA is worth officer and the chair, which my right hon. and hon. supporting, but it is a distraction. It is worth discussing Friends are already considering, also seem to be extremely how we can do things better, but please, Secretary of important, because they will, in such an important way, State, stop doing harm now. define the culture of this organisation—certainly for the initial five-year term of the chief executive and at least 3.4 pm for the first 10 years of this organisation. Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con): It is Thirdly, DARPA has been commented on a number genuinely a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member of times. It estimates that 25% of its programme managers for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner), who speaks with turn over annually, so there will be quite a large turnover great knowledge on this issue and who of course represents of these key members of staff in the UK. What is our an area where many people will be interested in the Bill. expectation? As the hon. Member for Cambridge said, America can draw on an enormous pool of talent. Is In common with other hon. Members, I welcome the the goal that we will be able to draw on a larger, perhaps Bill, but I just want to make sure I am welcoming the global pool of talent to play a role in this agency? That same Bill as they are. In many of the contributions would be a very good aspect of global Britain. today, Members appear to have aimed their guns at destroying those elements of the Bill that are unique, In 2019, 65% of DARPA projects were undertaken special and different. The shadow Secretary of State, by companies, and only 17% by universities. Is that the the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward intention here? If so, I would very much welcome that. Miliband), who is no longer in his place, started that off Also, there is the opportunity in the Bill for ARIA to by talking about R&D as an example of an industrial create companies and joint ventures, and a document strategy. Well, industrial strategies are playthings of will come out to explain how that will work. However, it Ministers and, as we know, Ministers can change from would be helpful to know whether it will also include time to time. The whole design of the Bill is intended to what happens to any returns from those joint ventures prevent those issues. and companies, and whether the money will go back into ARIA itself or be returned to the Treasury—I The spokesperson for the Scottish nationalists, the think we all know what the answer to that might be, but hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn), it would be interesting to at least pose the question. chided me a little about the importance of the environment and asked whether that should be a focus. I am not The Secretary of State will know that ARPA was set denying that the environment and climate change is an up in the same year—1958, if I can read my writing—as important issue, but the point here is that we do not the Small Business Investment Act was enacted in the prescribe that that is the only thing that this organisation United States. I would like to close on this point. There can research—I am not saying that it should not look is very positive reinforcement between the initiatives into it. being taken in the Bill and encouraging support for I do not wish to smother at birth the unique venture capital and small businesses. I refer Members to characteristics of this organisation. Essentially,the purpose my declaration of interests on the issue of venture of the Bill is to create an institution that, in Donald capital. There is a tremendous opportunity. Rumsfeld’s terms, would look at the unknown unknowns, DARPA likes to say that it created the internet, but and politicians are not in the right place to define what venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins can point to the those would be. If I may, I would gently disagree with fact that it made billions out of Amazon, billions out of the Chair of the Select Committee, my right hon. Friend Netscape and billions out of Google. That is the essence 837 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 838 Agency Bill Agency Bill of the problem we often hear about in this country. We confidence in this regard. There is a big difference are very good at doing the research, but we are very between tolerable failure and a lack of scrutiny allowing poor at commercialising it. Can we see further efforts by for further misuse of public funds. the Department to ensure that we have the same parallel With your indulgence, Madam Deputy Speaker, as tracks as the United States had when it successfully this is the final time I will be making a speech in this launched its equivalent of our initiative, ARPA, in 1958? place before I take my leave tomorrow, I wish to make some brief remarks not strictly related to the matters 3.10 pm before us. As many colleagues will be aware, I am Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP): It is a pleasure resigning from this House in order to seek election to be to be able to speak in this debate, and this will be my last the MSP for Airdrie and Shotts in Scotland’s national speech in this Chamber. I shall come to that in a moment, Parliament. but first let me address the substance of the Bill. I want to thank my colleagues and friends in the SNP I represent a constituency, Airdrie and Shotts, with group and its staff, as well as friends from across this significant and incredible scientific research based around House, for their support, and staff of the House across BioCity and MediCity as well as the Newhouse and the estate, who are diligent public servants. My incredible Maxim Park industrial estates. Indeed, just last week constituency office staff have been with me throughout Amphista Therapeutics, based at BioCity, secured my time in Parliament: Adam Robinson, Lawrie Kane, £38 million of investment in its series B financing round Lesley Jarvie, Margaret Hughes and Michael Coyle. to continue its work on potent and selective bifunctional They have provided me and the people of Airdrie and molecules, known as amphistas, and to extend its targeted Shotts with incredible service, and I thank them. I protein degradation approaches. I am incredibly proud thank my campaign team, led by my incredible election to represent that major hub of the biosciences industry agent, Graham Russell—we go again! in Scotland, which is projected to be worth £8 billion to I also want to thank the people of Airdrie and Shotts. the Scottish economy in the coming years. It has been an incredible honour to serve them for the That industry needs continued support. It needs the past six years. They first placed their faith in me in 2015, start-up funding and ongoing research funding to continue and I hope that I have gone some way to repay that to thrive. I am delighted that the Scottish Government trust, both in this House, with approaching 1,400 oral have led the way with the establishment of the Scottish and written contributions, and also in my campaigns National Investment Bank, which is to have £2 billion locally. Of everything we have achieved over the past of capitalisation and has a clear ambition to achieve six years, I am most proud of having led the campaign net zero. The industry also needs significant and to keep the new Monklands Hospital in the Airdrie area ongoing support to stop the Brexit drain of scientific and worked on 14,500 constituency cases for people in researchers who have sadly returned to the continent in every part of the Airdrie and Shotts constituency.Politics recent years. is always about people, and my driving ambition, which Although I obviously welcome the UK Government’s I am sure I share with others across this House, has following the Scottish Government’s lead in establishing always been to do what I can to help people locally as a state-backed investment organisation, it is incredibly well as tackle injustices, poverty and inequality across disappointing that they have not matched that with the these isles. ambition to tackle climate change or reduce inequalities. That example has been set by the Scottish Government David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP): I have the through the Scottish National Investment Bank. As was unenviable task of following my hon. Friend in his said by my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen success in the role of SNP work and pensions spokesperson. South (Stephen Flynn) in his incredible and fantastic He has been thanking people for their support. May I, speech from our Front Bench, and by others across the on behalf of those of us who are Airdrie fans, particularly House, the lack of clear focus for ARIA is a major the Airdrie Supporters Trust, genuinely and sincerely disappointment. thank him for his support of us as a community as well? I also want to seek clarity from the Minister on a few He will be well aware that there are many people in the issues, to follow on from my hon. Friend’s speech. I Diamonds community who think very highly of him want clarity that the Minister has no intention of using and very much hope to see him elected to continue that ARIA as another Tory Trojan horse to bypass devolved good work in the Scottish Parliament. decision making. Will the Minister ensure Scottish researchers and firms such as those in Airdrie and Shotts that I have already spoken about will receive Neil Gray: It is very kind of my hon. Friend to say so. their full Barnettised share of ARIA funding through In my maiden speech, I thanked my wife Karlie and the Scottish Government? Will the UK Government my then 11-month-old daughter Isla for their love and also commit now to give any powers going to ARIA in support. I said then that it would not be standing up to areas such as borrowing and debt financing to the Tory Governments or standing up for the people of Scottish National Investment Bank to ensure that there Airdrie and Shotts that I would find most challenging, is parity there? but missing my family when I am here—and so it has A string of cronyism scandals has engulfed this UK proved. But now that I have not only Isla, but Government, from funds prioritising prosperous Tory-held Finlay, Emmie and Freya to be missing, being closer to constituencies over other areas with genuine need to home to be a good father, and being in the constituency multimillion pound covid contracts being handed out more, is what motivates me to want to leave this place to pals by WhatsApp. What safeguards are in the Bill to and seek election to Holyrood to continue my service ensure we do not see that repeated in the funding of this to local people. If I am successful, I just hope that that agency? Excluding ARIA from FOI does not fill us with service will, soon, be in an independent Scottish Parliament. 839 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 840 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Neil Gray] The environment is rightly the lens through which we need to examine current and future actions and ambitions. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): May The space sector is demonstrating its commitment to I, on behalf of all the hon. Gentleman’s friends from the environment through the development of new materials across the House, wish him well on his last appearance and processes, but with space acknowledged as one of here in this Chamber? I fully appreciate that, as the hon. the key enablers to understanding and monitoring of Member for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn) said a global environments and environmental change, are the few moments ago, no Scottish nationalist ever wants to Government driving the right relationship between space be here in this Parliament, but I thank him for the and the UK environmental agencies, acknowledging service that he has given and the contributions that he devolved responsibilities? has made while he has been here. Of course, I will try Ambition itself cannot deliver on enterprise for a very hard not to say anything further than that, except nation. Leadership is key to ensuring the right information that he is clearly going to be busy with his ever-growing and that action takes place at the right time and with family, regardless of what happens over the next few the right entities. Does the space sector enjoy the right weeks, and in a personal capacity we wish him well. nature of strategic leadership both in the Government and the private sector? Has the UK established the 3.18 pm types of structures, executive councils and committees necessary to provide the support, confidence and assurance David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con) of decisions, making opportunities for the space sector [V]: May I echo the sentiments that you just expressed, to thrive under the new ARIA regime? A lot of clarification Madam Deputy Speaker? I have found the hon. Member needs to come forward, and I am sure that the Secretary for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) to be a good colleague, of State will provide that development and regulatory as was his predecessor, who is still a very close friend of structure to allow a commercial and viable space industry mine. to grow. I have highlighted some anomalies within the The UK space industry has arguably benefited the structure as it currently stands. most from the US ARIA equivalent, DARPA. For a I would like to see the Bill pass, and I am certain it very recent example, we need look no further than will. It will enable the UK space sector to do a better Astra, the launch vehicle manufacturer that had a successful job than it is already doing. The UK space sector, as my launch on 16 December 2020. While discussing ARIA, right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells however, attention should be paid to the necessity of (Greg Clark) has already said, develops 40% of what is having an ecosystem approach. There is now an already flying around in orbit, and we can do more. The acknowledged and accepted dependency on space, and UK space sector has bucked the trend over recessions the space sector is one of the 13 critical national and pandemics, and the sector is increasing. infrastructure sectors. The UK is at a decision point I want to end on a positive note. I will be backing the and is reaching a critical stage in terms of launches Bill, and I would like to see more money for the space becoming commercially viable. To secure launches as sector. part of the UK offering of space ports would ensure access to hugely significant economic opportunity 3.23 pm through whole-sector participation, including end-to-end delivery. (Havant) (Con): I am delighted to welcome the Bill and the new Advanced Research and Invention While there is no doubting the UK’s space ambitions, Agency that it creates. I want to echo the sentiments of there needs to be a clear line of investment, which will the Secretary of State and the shadow Secretary of have two elements. At present, most of the Government’s State, and the tributes that they paid to our scientific investment is focused on academia and technology. community, who have done outstanding work during There is little focus on launch infrastructure and the the pandemic. development of logistical support. Noting that it is generally accepted that a launch will make the difference Today’s Bill is one of the most important to come for the UK’s standing and therefore economic benefit before the House in this Parliament. First, it lays the from the global space market, it is estimated that this foundations for Britain to become the science superpower alone will be worth £400 billion to us by 2030. envisaged by the Prime Minister in the integrated review and building on the Government’s existing commitment Regulation, though, is a key enabler of development to deploy 2.4% of GDP to research and development. in the space sector, and much has been achieved through Secondly, a new agency will create new jobs, products the introduction of the Space Industry Act 2018. One and services, and innovative communities across the anomaly is the Civil Aviation Authority and the intention whole country, levelling up our science and technology of lifting the insurance liability from a £60 million cap base and backing our scientists and entrepreneurs. Finally, to unlimited liability, which will make UK launches it will enable Britain to lead the new fourth industrial unviable from UK soil, with many other countries revolution, pioneering in fields from artificial intelligence offering less liability. So that must be addressed very and robotics to genomics and quantum technologies. soon. Just as Hargreaves’ spinning jenny and Stephenson’s Have the Government ensured sufficient harmonisation Rocket propelled Britain to a new era of prosperity and between the existing regulatory authorities and the UK invention in the past, this new agency, ARIA, can help Space Agency? Is the UKSA playing its full role as the us to success in the decades ahead. Government-sponsored agency with responsibility for We have all seen during the covid-19 pandemic the all strategic decisions on the UK civil space programme importance of investing in research, science and and to provide a clear and single voice for UK space development, and as we build back better, ARIA can ambitions? That has to be clarified. unleash the potential of our most visionary scientists, 841 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 842 Agency Bill Agency Bill helping Britain to shape the future and get to the future to be proud of. The creation of this new agency will help first. In terms of shaping the future, many in the House Britain cement its status as a science superpower, and it will know President Kennedy’s words from 1962: is a project that I am proud to support. “We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard”. 3.28 pm Those stirring words are often remembered for their soaring rhetoric, but they were in fact designed to Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD) [V]: It is a pleasure persuade the American people of the benefits of the to speak in this debate on the setting up of ARIA. Apollo space programme after the US had been caught Liberal Democrats wholeheartedly welcome any off guard by the Soviet Union putting the first satellite announcement of new public funding for science and and then the first man into space. technology. I was struck by the closing remarks of the hon. To beat the Soviet Union to the moon, the Americans Member for Havant (Alan Mak) about Britain’s history relied on a radical new organisation that would be a of scientific technology and innovation. When I was a catalyst for new ideas. America’s Advanced Research child growing up in the 1980s, we were still coming Projects Agency—ARPA, as it was originally known, towards the end of the cold war, and science and founded by President Eisenhower and backed by his technology felt almost threatening in a time of conflict successor, JFK—would help to deliver not only the revolving around nuclear weapons. A transformation moon landings but an early version of the internet, the has taken place over the last 35 years in public attitudes global positioning system and driverless cars. By launching towards science. We have had a digital revolution. Here ARPA, the US was determined that in the future, it we are today, on the anniversary of the first lockdown would be the initiator and not the victim of strategic of the pandemic, and in the last few months, scientific technological surprises. research and scientists have dominated the headlines By launching the UK equivalent today, as the fourth with the extraordinary work they have done in developing accelerates, we provide ourselves the vaccine. It makes me think that today’s children with an insurance policy against future challenges and have a very different attitude towards science, and I very an opportunity to shape the future through innovation. much hope that the experience of the last few years will It is therefore welcome news that ARIA will incorporate encourage more and more children and young people to the key features of the ARPA model that have been consider science as a career. I hope they will be inspired credited with its success, including a sole focus on by our great national history of science and innovation, high-risk, high-reward research; a high tolerance for and that this new agency will in some way pick up that scientific failure; freedom to explore new funding models, great inspiration and some of that great talent, which is including prizes and taking equity stakes; minimal surely being fostered in our schools and universities as bureaucracy, with low Government intervention; and we speak, and bring new innovations and great scientific empowering talented programme managers to find and thinking to the world. fund complex research programmes. That is the right There is no doubt that in funding for science and framework, but what sort of technology should those innovation we have lagged behind somewhat in both the programme managers focus on? That has been the private and public sector. We have fantastic science, subject of some debate this afternoon. education and research capacity in this country, as we It would be tempting for ARIA to spread itself thinly have done for many years, but our biggest failing has and widely, diversifying across a range of technologies been our inability to match up the great work and and disciplines, but that would be the wrong approach. innovation that we are generating in our universities, If ARIA is to succeed, it must focus on the most research centres and private sector companies and bring impactful and transformative technologies that are most it into economic activity so that it can deliver wider likely to create whole new industries, produce thousands benefits to our economy and workforce. It is a problem of jobs across the United Kingdom and apply across a that Governments of all stripes have wrestled with for wide range of economic sectors where the UK can many years. develop a strong and sustained competitive advantage. However, while I welcome the fact that ARIA has Those key technologies include robotics and artificial been set up with that express purpose in mind, is this intelligence, which will become pervasive across all sectors particular agency the result of Government analysis of of our economy; life sciences and synthetic biology, where we have been going wrong or is this Mr Cummings’s where the big theme of the coming decade will be brainchild? Conservative Members seem to have almost personalisation; fusion, which has the potential to deliver limitless faith in Mr Cummings’s abilities and analysis, a new carbon-free source of clean energy; space, where, but I have to be honest that it is not that clear to those as my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge of us on the Opposition Benches that just because Wells (Greg Clark) said, growth is driven by manufacturing, Mr Cummings thinks something is a good idea, the rest including in satellites, ground systems and components; of us should automatically follow. and quantum technologies, including quantum computers, So I am very interested to know what analysis the which are exponentially more powerful than today’sdevices. Government have done as to how ARIA can fix some of It was in Britain that the first industrial revolution these questions that have dogged our science and innovation took off in the 18th century. It was this country that space for so many years. How is the agency going to gave the world penicillin, unravelled the structure of direct its activities to make sure that it can really address DNA and pioneered the world wide web. Cambridge the issues we are facing? My first question is about who alone has produced more Nobel laureates than any is going to be addressing these particular issues. The country in the world except America, and more than legislation is broadly drawn, which is probably right France, Japan and China combined. We have an given that we want an unencumbered agency, but who is outstanding record of scientific innovation and discovery going to be appointed to lead it? I notice from the 843 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 844 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Sarah Olney] our vaccination roll-out. Indeed, just look at the dividend that the UK’s sequencing expertise is now paying. legislation that the board will be appointed by the That is why I emphatically welcome the Government’s Secretary of State; it will obviously include the chief scientific officer as that is clearly right, but beyond that what will be the qualifications of the people who are leading it? Will they be scientists, will they be from industry, will they be academics, will they be economists? The legislation is silent on what will qualify somebody to sit on that board and how they will direct the agency and to what particular ends. That is an interesting point, and I look forward to hearing more about how the Secretary of State will make those appointments. I welcome the plans to provide the substantial funding for this new body, and particularly the direction that the projects it undertakes can have a high risk of failure. However, the Secretary of State must be aware that he is committing to taking big risks with taxpayers’ money. How can he or the hard-working taxpayer be sure that this use of public money delivers greater value to the British public than any other use? I acknowledge that that will be a difficult question to answer and that we need to accept that there will be downsides, but the Secretary of State should be clear about whether this high-risk investment is new money or whether it is being taken away from other established and lower risk programmes elsewhere. For example, is funding for ARIA coming from money for research and innovation for other programmes—perhaps money that UKRI received for official development assistance research into global challenges, which we know has been cut by two thirds? Is that money now going into ARIA? Are we cutting existing programmes in order to fund this high-risk research? We know that ODA budgets and also the Royal Society, the Academy of Medical Sciences, the Royal Academy of Engineering and the British Academy are seeing cuts, and again I ask is ARIA the new destination for that funding? It is essential that the Government confirm that this is new money and that it is going to be introduced to sit alongside existing funding streams. Otherwise, far from being a boost to scientific research, ARIA will put successful current research at risk. As has been pointed out, the wide-ranging remit of ARIA also represents a risk that research projects will be undertaken that duplicate work already being done elsewhere, which again risks taxpayer value for money. In conclusion, the Liberal Democrats are very pleased to support the Bill. We are 100% behind efforts to increase science and innovation, particularly where they can have wider applications for the economy and quality of life in this country, but we will be watching very closely for answers on appointments to the board and funding.

3.34 pm Mark Logan (Bolton North East) (Con) [V]: I welcome the Second Reading of the Advanced Research and Invention Agency Bill, which marks an increasing awareness across Government, Parliament and the country of the importance of innovation in securing our collective prosperity well into the future. The last year has shown us just how vital it is that we further bolster this country’s science and research ambitions. The Royal Society of Biology, with which I spoke last month, can attest to how our assiduous investment in the life sciences has clearly paid off, as we are reaping the benefits with 845 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 846 Agency Bill Agency Bill commitment to increase public R&D expenditure, which, some parliamentary oversight. This has been emphasised along with ARIA, forms part of the fundamental building repeatedly by the Science and Technology Committee’s blocks for the Britain of the next era. witnesses. Let me finish by saying a big well done to the We have thought hard about the pennies. Now we are Government for being ambitious and bringing this Bill turning to the pounds we pack internationally. Last to the House, and for providing us with the stepping week, we on the Science and Technology Committee stones to punch not above our weight but above our heard from Dominic Cummings, who spoke about the basal metabolic rate. need for the UK to take science more seriously. He said that competitor countries around the world debate at 3.41 pm the highest level cutting-edge S&T on a daily basis. We are not entering—but rather have already entered—a Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP) [V]: new era of heightened global competition. We should Most Members understand the importance of proper not fear such a transition, as change is the only constant. science funding, both in terms of supporting research I suggest that we all read “Who Moved My Cheese?”, excellence and as an economic multiplier, and I certainly and advance our science and technology expertise. welcome any announcement of additional funding. The strategic framework for the integrated review has However, in a week when we have seen UK Research S&T as the very first of four overarching objectives. I and Innovation funding for official development assistance agree with the implicit argument that science and technology being cut, and when we are facing ongoing uncertainty is often the forgotten magical element in Britain’s soft regarding our association fee for Horizon Europe, we power. I trust that the Minister is considering how we have to be sceptical about whether this agency will use the global talent visa programme to add to this really attract new funding, or whether this will simply effort. As my hon. Friend the Member for Havant involve the re-profiling of existing funds. (Alan Mak) rightly pointed out, the UK has had 99 Nobel In his evidence on ARIA to the Science and Technology laureates. This fills us with pride. Aiming for at least Committee last week, Dominic Cummings referenced another 99 fills us with focus. Taken together with the the Manhattan project, Turing’s work on the Enigma integrated review, this Bill will provide the UK with code and the development of computers as projects that immense opportunities to become a science superpower would have benefited from funding free from bureaucratic across many domains. constraints. All those projects had one thing in common: The Government are here to get the big things right, a specific target. We need to have some idea of what but we must also—slightly counterintuitively—be prepared ARIA’s mission should actually be. What are its priorities? to get things wrong. By this, I mean that we face a Net zero technology? Autonomous vehicles? Quantum cultural challenge in Whitehall, Westminster and, indeed, computing? I do not think any of us would deny that, if all walks of life when it comes to failure. It is an acutely the UK were to face a specific urgent challenge, there British niggle. Fear of failure in both Government and would be a need to get money where it was needed, and business has limited our ability to take more calculated fast. The difficulty here is that we are being asked to risks. Who can blame people, when the media is constantly support a Bill to set up a body to fund high-risk ready to take someone down for the slightest slip? I am research, but we do not know what we will be researching hopeful that ARIA can be part of a cultural change or why.In last week’sevidence session, Dominic Cummings that can boost us in taking more risks for higher reward, talked extensively about the bureaucracy of current and to scale up our ideas to compete with the east Asian funding, and stated this as one of the reasons for the and US giants. new body. We have heard from researchers about the ARIA may currently be of no fixed abode, but we are difficulties in applying for funding, but we would surely on standby to fix its abode in Bolton. My hon. Friend be better off tackling that, rather than creating a new the Member for Bolton West (Chris Green) will be up agency when we do not have a mission. shortly to join what is probably going to be the most Earlier, the Chair of the Select Committee, the right important debate of our generation: should ARIA’s hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), talked office be in the west or the east of Bolton? Bolton and about the importance of failure. It is frustrating that Greater Manchester’s thirst for radical innovation is we do not recognise how key failure is to scientific palpable, with the National Graphene Institute a stone’s development. Failure is information. It tells us that throw away and the University of Bolton just a few something does not work, and science research often doors down from me. As the Bill outlines, ARIA’s has many instances of failure before we experience membership is to consist of a small network of executive success. This speaks to how we measure success in and non-exec members, in line with the Government’s science through papers looking for positive outcomes. agenda to level up, and what better location is there to Maybe we should be looking more at papers that talk base that network in than the north-west, surrounded about negative outcomes or nor outcomes at all, because by the brightest young minds, at the centre of Bolton that is information too. North East? Through the vaccine roll-outs, we have all witnessed In everything, there must be accountability.Government the benefits of being able to work at speed and scale, spending during the pandemic on flawed procurement and this has been testament to relinquishing overreaching contracts should have taught us that there must be bureaucracy. In its present form, the Bill can engender checks and balances in public money to ensure that more clarity to signal adequate space for ARIA’sleadership cronyism is not the overriding decision maker. Removing to operate independently from Government. Exceptional ARIA from any freedom of information requests is scientists need room to decide which research to pursue problematic and will certainly leave it open to such and to give them the confidence and agility to make cronyism. I would like some clarification on how extreme decisions, although I also appreciate the need for freedom in research does not mean extreme recklessness and cronyism in spending. 847 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 848 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Carol Monaghan] as net zero. This is a statement of intent about the future direction of the UK and of our economy. I would also like to raise the issue of national inequality of research spending. The recent National Audit Office Going back to covid, interest in UK science and report on the industrial strategy challenge fund noted: innovation has never been higher, but by focusing ARIA on ambitious and cutting-edge work, we will strengthen “The Fund is unevenly spread across the UK with the majority being provided to the West Midlands, South East and London”. the sector that is driving that interest. Indeed, I am This is not a new situation. For decades, we have seen delighted that the Bill gives particular focus to projects capital spending on research concentrated on the south-east that carry a high risk of failure. Those projects will be at of England. I would therefore like to hear something the very cutting edge of science and technology and about how the Government will ensure that ARIA is need support to determine whether we can gain a high fully representative of the devolved nations. reward or learn from their failure. We have seen too few of the genuinely exciting technologies of the last few The Government promised to double R&D spending decades being taken to market overseas. Providing a to £22 billion by 2024 and repeatedly talk of being a route to finance for the most cutting-edge science in the science superpower. However, we are yet to see full details UK will be a huge benefit to us as a nation, driving the on this spending. The Business Secretary has admitted creation of new industries, jobs, skills and growth. that UKRI’s 2021-22 budget has not yet been agreed, so a long-term funding plan for science should have some I am fortunate to represent Barrow and Furness, certainty for the funding cycles that we are already in. where roughly 10,000 people are employed in the national The UK’s status as a science superpower is underpinned endeavour of producing the nuclear deterrent. On my by international research collaboration and we need to last visit to the shipyard, I was struck when it was make sure that that is protected. It is concerning that mentioned, almost in passing, that only one thing is UKRI has announced a shortfall of £120 million between made by man that is more complex than a nuclear its official development assistance allocation and its submarine, and that is the international space station. commitment to grant holders. I have asked repeatedly The research, innovation and technology that underpin about our commitment on Horizon Europe contributions, these incredible ships have been created over generations and, in the last few weeks, there has been no further to produce vessels that travel in near silence, under information. We need to know whether the contributions tremendous pressures, and which keep their crew alive will come from new money or whether UKRI will see and our nation and NATO secure. That immense its budget further squeezed to pay our association fee. achievement is the end point of generations of research Although many of us support an additional £800 million and development, some from the UK and some from for science research, it really is difficult for us to work further afield. That is what is exciting about ARIA and out whether it is actually new money. We need to see the what it could deliver. With £800 million of funding sums and we need that clarity. behind it and genuine strategic and cultural autonomy, Finally, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member let us think what could be achieved in strides to keep us for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray). He is a well-respected safe and secure, and to enable innovations in technology and much liked colleague across the House. I know that genuinely shift the paradigm and which can brought personally how hard he works and that he gives 100% both to market. to his parliamentary duties and to his family. I hope The ability to be nimble and agile is key to ARIA’s that he has great success in his new endeavours and that success, and I believe that my right hon. Friend the he has the opportunity to spend more time with his Secretary of State has taken the right approach in family, because all of us with families who have to travel exempting it from public-contract regulations relating to this place know that it can be a huge strain. All the to its research goals. That will allow it to procure at best, Neil, and take care. speed and act more like the private sector organisation Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I would like to that it needs to be. Balancing oversight for this new add my good wishes as well, as this is my first time in beast will be difficult, and hon. Members have expressed the Chair today. Good luck, Neil. genuine concern about that, but I believe that my right hon. Friend has got it right. In directing ARIA to consider the benefits of its activities for the UK as a 3.47 pm whole the agency will, by its nature, foster a positive Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con) [V]: I am environment for developing the technologies of tomorrow, delighted to have been called to speak in this debate and helping to make the UK a global scientific superpower. I will attempt to be brief to avoid the virtual grimace Indeed, alongside UK Research and Innovation, ARIA that Madam Deputy Speaker threatened. gives the UK a full-spectrum approach to funding There is so much to like and be excited about in this scientific research. As the Jack Sprat and his wife of Bill and the creation of ARIA. The Secretary of State UK research and innovation, ARIA and UKRI will was spot on when he raised the covid pandemic and the generate greater pull for UK science and research as a breakthrough vaccine that has been developed in the whole. UK. This is one of those moments that shows what UK innovation can achieve: saving lives, catalysing interest Finally, we must continue the tradition of pushing and effort, and instilling pride. However, ARIA could the boundaries of human knowledge with cutting-edge put those amazing developments in the shade, or, at the research and science. Without taking risks we will miss very least, normalise them. This year has shown the groundbreaking discoveries that will have far-reaching absolute importance of scientific innovation and ARIA benefits for our nation, including the development of could allow the UK to play to its strengths, tackling the jobs and industries of the future, based here in the some of the biggest challenges facing our country, such UK. By launching the UK equivalent of DARPA, we 849 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 850 Agency Bill Agency Bill have the opportunity to seize the future right here and Secondly, there is the threat to give back word on today. Surely there can be no more exciting prospect funding the association with Horizon Europe. Clearly, than that. participation in Horizon Europe is hugely welcome. The understanding has always been that it would continue 3.51 pm as a separate funding stream. Now, apparently, there is Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab) [V]: In my a suggestion it might come from UKRI’s existing budget. brief remarks, I should like to focus on the context of When I met UKRI a month ago to discuss funding for the Bill—on how we make the most of our country’s extending studentships in cases where research has been extraordinary research capacity, about which many delayed by covid, we discussed the immense pressure on Members have spoken. its existing budgets. If it is expected to pay for Horizon Six years ago,I led a Westminster Hall debate highlighting out of existing budgets, that would take about 11% of the fact that the UK had fallen behind others in research its funding, or £1 billion. That is the equivalent of and development investment, from a position in which 18,000 research-focused academic jobs. we had led OECD countries. We had particularly fallen In a city of two large universities and more than behind in publicly funded R&D, and I argued that we 60,000 students, I can testify to how important research needed almost to double spending to 3% of GDP. is to our communities and to our economy. We know Six years later,actual spending has not increased much—it that public sector research informs and improves private is still about 1.6% or 1.7%. The Government are talking innovation, while generating revenue for the public purse. about their ambition to increase spending to 2.4% although, The University of Sheffield’s advanced manufacturing as ever, the Prime Minister’s rhetoric of the UK as a and research centre is a great example; one that is science superpower does not match the reality of his recognised internationally.From seedcorn public funding, plans, as 2.4% simply brings us in line with the OECD it now has more than 125 industrial partners, and countries overall. It is an ambition to be average. employs more than 500 researchers and engineers from There is an even bigger concern that the reality does all over the world, with the university at the centre of not live up even to that target. The Bill proposes a new that network, pulling together that collaboration. Although agency for research and innovation, but its funding is the Prime Minister talks of increasing their investment unclear. Some £50 million is set aside in 2021-22, but in R&D, the Government are reportedly on course to future funding remains unallocated, and there is no miss their target of 2.4% of GDP spent on R&D by long-term investment model. The Government’s rhetoric 2027, so now is the time to put their money where their is ambitious, talking the talk about an innovation nation, mouth is and protect our research capabilities, and with but real results are delivered through sustained investment that their futures. in our brilliant science. The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine In winding up, I ask the Minister to respond to three is obviously the most cited example today, and is the questions: what assessment has been made of the most current instance of the extraordinary capacity £120 million cut to official development assistance funding that we have as a country, but it was delivered through in R&D? Will she confirm that Horizon funding will years of consistent funding and focus, incredible new not, in fact, be drawn from UKRI’s existing budget? science providing the route to reopening society and the Will she tell the House when the Secretary of State will economy. be able to confirm what the UKRI budget will be for The scientific community has made it clear that without 2021-22? certainty and stability we will lose out in the global market. 3.58 pm I think one of my colleagues has cited this, but the vice- chancellors of Oxford and Cambridge Universities said: Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): As with the mood “World-leading research cannot just be turned on and off like around the Chamber, I rise to welcome the Bill. In the a tap. 1920s, a young pilot officer in RAF wrote a thesis about Once our highly trained young researchers leave our universities how planes would be able to achieve longer ranges and they will not come back, and once they leave the country they will higher speeds by flying at higher altitudes, but that they not return.” would need a new and different form of propulsion. At Of course, the importance of research extends well that time, they were powered by piston engines and beyond Oxbridge, throughout the universities sector propellers, and he realised that the lower air pressures at and right across the country. It is worth remembering, height would prevent the engines of the day from working, at a time when we all share a concern about regional so he started to think about the alternatives. In 1935, he imbalance within our economy, that universities are secured financial backing, formed a companyand developed one of the few national assets we have that are spread a new type of engine, which was first ready for flight in evenly right across the country,well positioned to generate May 1941. The RAF officer was Frank Whittle; the new economic growth in all regions and all nations of the UK. engine was the jet; and the development work was The problem is that contrary to their stated intentions, carried out at the British Thomson-Houston works in the Government have started reducing research funding. my constituency of Rugby. The site is still available—it First, as we have heard from others, £120 million is is part of an industrial complex—and I recently visited going from the international development budget, cutting to see where the work was done and was able to see the about half of development-funded research activity. hole in the wall where the prototype was placed. Only yesterday, the Royal Society described powerfully Whittle’s invention led to international air travel as to me how this has forced it to withdraw funding from we know it today—or as we have known it until recent current projects that will not be able to continue, as well months—and, significantly, to commercial success, with as shut down future opportunities, with huge implications Rolls-Royce going on to be one of the world’s two not just for global research, but for the very relationships major jet engine manufacturers. It seems to me that one with the Indo-Pacific nations that the Prime Minister purpose of the Bill is to answer the question: how do we has been so keen to foster. encourage a present-day or future Frank Whittle? The 851 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 852 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Mark Pawsey] must be a multi-year programme with a long-term perspective, and the 10-year commitment in the Bill is creation of a new agency will improve the prospect of incredibly important. The chairman must be free to set our creating truly life-changing inventions and, significantly, his own agenda and priorities. lead to commercial opportunities for their manufacture We have heard discussion about how ARIA’s mission in the UK. will fit with other Government priorities and the need The current primary funder of invention is of course, for the organisation to be free to follow its own course. I as we have heard, UK Research and Innovation, through am particularly concerned about the closeness of the the seven research councils,Research England and Innovate links with industry and how important they will be. I UK. It has a budget of £6 billion and provides grants was reminded of that this morning at an excellent for research and development. Some of the work is Industry and Parliament Trust event on the UK role in developed through the Catapult centres, which were set the development of the UK battery industry. We heard up from 2001 to promote research and development Professor David Greenwood of the University of Warwick through business-led collaboration among scientists and speak about the need to link research and development engineers. Significantly, a third of the Catapults’ funding to the existence of a market for what is being introduced. comes through the private sector. He told us an account about the development of the I have a close association with two Catapults, one of lithium ion battery, I think at Oxford. It was developed which is in my constituency and one of which is close in the UK at a time when there was no commercial by. The Manufacturing Technology Centre is in my application for it. The mobile phone and the move constituency and I visited it in 2011. I have since seen its towards electric vehicle that we know about today did massive expansion, with the list of companies involved not exist, and it took a Japanese camcorder manufacturer taking up more space on the wall each time I have been to recognise the opportunity that small powerful batteries there. The centre has done particularly effective work created. That gave an application for the battery, and on additive manufacturing. once used in that application, other uses became apparent. Close to my constituency is the Warwick Manufacturing This new body must be close to industrial applications. Group at the University of Warwick campus, which of We live in a fast-changing world, and UK businesses course has a close relationship with the automotive need to be able to respond to those changes. It is vital sector—highly appropriate as Coventry is the heart of that we retain our manufacturing base to provide a mix motor manufacturing. The WMG has had a big hand in to our economy,and the best manufacturing opportunities the research for the industry and is currently working arise when they are close, both physically and with on battery technology. As an aside, Coventry would be personal links, to those areas where the ideas are developed. an excellent location for a gigafactory. Making full use of the energy and dynamism of inventors, I sought the views of the two Catapults. The question researchers and entrepreneurs will enable that to happen, for me was whether ARIA would be a threat to their and this Bill, which creates the Advanced Research and funding or complementary to their work. In each case, Invention Agency, is key to that. I believe it makes the there was strong support for the proposals in the Bill. kind of invention developed by Sir Frank Whittle more The WMG likely. “welcome and support the establishment of ARIA” as 4.5 pm “a funding agency with freedom to operate. The proposed structure Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP): I welcome the is an improvement on the current UKRI set up and should allow general concepts behind the Bill. Support for ambitious for more informal and flexible working.” blue-sky research where application in the real world is The MTC said: not always clear could bring massive economic benefits “Because ARIA will be able to fund different kinds of scientific if successfully applied. Electricity is the backbone of and technological research within a single programme, organisations modern industrial society, but if the early pioneers had like the West Midlands based Manufacturing Technology Centre had to specify what it was used for, we might not have will benefit from joined-up funding streams, allowing projects to got beyond experimenting with shocks from electric access funding in a more effective and efficient way”. catfish. On a day-to-day basis, where we all deal with so That shows strong support. many emails coming in and out, without innovation The MTC also draws attention to the additional and invention we might still be reliant on a flock of funding and support for risky programmes. We have pigeons to deliver those messages. heard a lot about the risky nature of the programmes A healthy research environment needs a healthy range that ARIA will fund. We know that only a small fraction of options and healthy funding levels. Additional funding of the goals will be achieved and that failure will have to from ARIA is therefore a welcome new tool in the box, be accepted as part of the scientific process. The MTC as long as it is additional funding and not a subtraction believes that beneficiaries of funding will be able to take from other important funds. Applied that way, ARIA bold but calculated risks that they would not previously could complement the high-impact, hypothesis-driven, have been able to take. We have already heard that in goal-driven research and support currently delivered these areas of development we often do not know via UK Research and Innovation, but it cannot simply exactly what we are looking for until we find it, but the be there to replace that. Nor should the agency become benefits of success will be greater. just another political tool to bypass and crowd out The WMG drew attention to an issue that we have devolved decisions on funding and support for innovation. heard about in this debate: the key role of the chair and I have a clear constituency interest in any research how important it will be that this individual is strong funding, as some of the UK’s best work comes from my and independent. In many ways, it will be perhaps one neck of the woods. Midlothian Science Zone is at the of the most important of ministerial appointments. It cutting edge of global research across many disciplines, 853 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 854 Agency Bill Agency Bill but particularly in the fields of animal health, human arose—not to hold up the awarding of contracts but to health, agritech and related technologies. The world- allow Parliament the opportunity to question their renowned Roslin Institute, for example, looks forward appropriateness. I have written to the to pitching some of its high-risk ideas to ARIA, in seeking the Government’s support to take that Bill particular to investigate how the integrated transformation forward. Certainly, if there is nothing to hide, the of the food system could contribute to solving global Government should have nothing to fear from it. hunger and climate change, to improving human, animal, In setting up a new funding body, especially for plant and environmental health, and to developing high-risk funding such as this, it is imperative that preparedness for future pandemics. safeguards are built in to protect against the risk of That type of exciting research certainly seems to fit corruption. There is an urgent need for more, not less, the mission of another state-backed investment organisation oversight in public spending decisions, and I am dismayed that is already open for business. The Scottish National that the Government continue to dismiss those concerns. Investment Bank, as my hon. Friend the Member for In conclusion, while I support the concept and the Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn) mentioned earlier, is dedicated high-risk research funding, more clarity is the single biggest economic development in the history certainly needed about the plans, the funding implications of the Scottish Parliament, with a purpose to power for devolved Governments, and the relationship with innovation, reduce inequalities and accelerate the move existing R&D structures. I know that the Government towards net zero emissions. do not always like detail, but a bit more understanding I hope that in developing this new body, the UK of who ARIA’s customers might be, how the body will Government will take decisions that support and do not be held to account and what it seeks to achieve would undermine the progress of the Scottish National Investment certainly be welcome. Big ambition is a good thing, but Bank. There is room for both, but the powers given to Government goals are more likely to succeed when we ARIA for borrowing, debt finance and multi-year transfers actually know what they are. should also be given to the Scottish National Investment Bank. 4.12 pm Given that it is public money, it would be wise, without any need to be too prescriptive, to have clarity (Kingswood) (Con) [V]: I welcome over ARIA’s purpose and focus. We do not need every this Bill. As the former Science Minister who ushered in step mapped out, but we need at least to have the rudder this concept of the UK ARPA—now ARIA—in the in place and a general course of travel made clear. We 2019 Conservative manifesto, I am delighted that the know that DARPA, the US defence research organisation introduction of this Bill so early in the Parliament that inspired the model, has a mission focus. Horizon demonstrates the Prime Minister’s key determination Europe has a mission focus. The Scottish National that research and development will be a priority as we Investment Bank has a mission focus on reducing look to build global Britain on the back of recovery inequalities and tackling climate change. If we do not from the pandemic. know what we want to achieve, how do we have any idea The Bill needs to be placed in the context of the uplift whether ARIA is being successful in achieving its goals? in research and development spend that has been spoken There are serious questions not just about the focus about, from the £9 billion per annum that we have spent but about the planned oversight and governance of the in the past to £22 billion by 2024-25. To put that in new agency. Alarm bells go off when I read that it will context, ARIA will represent just 1% of total research be exempt from freedom of information requests and spending in the period it is set up for, over five to public contract regulations, especially given the current 10 years. That is obviously due to our commitment to Government’s woeful record on accountability and spend 2.4% of GDP on research and development by transparency. The Government seek to excuse that on 2027, and we need to look at how we achieve that by the grounds of avoiding bureaucracy,but as the Campaign creating multi-annual financial budgets. We know that for Freedom of Information has pointed out, the US ARIA will have £800 million over a five-year period, equivalent of ARIA is covered by the US Freedom of and that is incredibly welcome. We need that certainty Information Act and was subject to just 48 requests in and stability for the rest of the R&D sector to be able to 2019. Such a volume of FOI requests could not conceivably plan ahead and devise research partnerships. be seen as a block to ARIA’s success. A number of Members have spoken about the current Bureaucracy looks increasingly to be a convenient insecurities regarding the Horizon Europe subscription. byword for bypassing scrutiny of this Government, There were plenty of insecurities when it came to seeing who, ironically, have dramatically increased damaging whether we would be an association member of Horizon bureaucracy for international businesses and academia Europe in the first place, yet we crossed that line. I am in since our leaving the EU. Covid has also been used as a no doubt that these issues will be resolved within the cover for all sorts of contracts being handed out without appropriate timescale to provide certainty for the science competition, clarity or comeback. The need for speed is and research sector when it comes to plugging funding not an excuse for keeping the paperwork, for not printing shortfalls, but in the future we should learn the lessons the details within legally required timeframes, or for by creating multi-annual, sustainable, long-term budgets misleading Parliament over what has been made public. that stop us reaching this stage in the first place. Questions continue to be raised, and dodged, about I believe that the Bill designs the right structure for why so many Tory donors, friends and associates have ARIA, with that 10-year certainty that it will exist, free been the recipients of directly awarded contracts, even from ministerial whims and able to plan ahead. It is when their CVs show little experience in the field. I right that the Bill strikes the tone and balance between, draw the Minister’s attention to my Ministerial Interests necessarily, independence and autonomy, as well as (Emergency Powers) Bill, which would ensure that Ministers providing the right flexibility to prioritise discovery-led were answerable to Parliament where such situations research. There has been some discussion on Second 855 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 856 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Chris Skidmore] Finally, it would be remiss of me, as a local MP, not to mention the location of ARIA. It is right that it Reading today around whether we should be taking a should be practically a virtual location spread across mission-oriented approach or whether we should be the country, and we need to ensure that universities and looking for moonshots for ARIA, but that is fundamentally national laboratories have the right investment to be to misunderstand the purpose of creating an organisation able to help conduct the research for ARIA. When it that will prioritise disruptive innovation. There are plenty comes to the headquarters, the Bristol and Bath Science of other opportunities for moonshots elsewhere within Park in my constituency has land that is free, and I am the R and D ecosystem. ARIA’s sole purpose will be to sure that it would give a very good rate if ARIA wished look at how we can create paradigm shifts in technologies to set up there, right next to the National Composites or, indeed, in technologies that do not even exist at the Centre and the Institute for Advanced Automotive moment. I reference back to the UK being a founder Propulsion Systems. It would be a huge opportunity if member of CERN in 1983. We put £144 million a year ARIA wished to locate in my constituency, which is into CERN now, so our spend on ARIA is quite modest only down the road from Chipping Sodbury—as the by comparison. No one expected CERN to help to Secretary of State mentioned, the birthplace of the develop the internet or touch-screen computing, and vaccine used by Edward Jenner. yet they have been spin-outs as a result of prioritising discovery-led technologies and putting our faith in research, 4.19 pm not knowing where it might lead us. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): It is a pleasure to Other countries are doing the same. When we look at speak in this debate. First, I congratulate the hon. Member this discussion around ARIA, it is important to understand for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) and wish him all the that it is not just about ARPA—and it is nothing to do best as he leaves this place. I always find him a very easy with DARPA. Obviously, DARPA is a mission-oriented fella to get on with. We have worked together in many defence-led project. We focused our intention on the debates; usually I intervened on him, and maybe there 1950s and ’60s version of ARPA when looking at how was the odd time when he intervened on me. We have a to create ARIA. There is Vinnova in Sweden, which is good friendship, and I wish him and his family well. We £260 million a year; imPACT in Japan; and SPRIN-D will miss his friendship in the Chamber. in Germany, which was set up in 2019 on exactly the same framework as we are looking at for ARIA. In a I am a strong supporter of Government’s aim to way, therefore, we are behind the curve. Other countries increase public research and development funding to are already powering ahead, looking at setting up these £22 billion by 2024-25 and to increase overall UK disruptiveinnovationcentresthatwillprioritisediscovery-led spending on R&D to 2.4% of GDP by 2027. I welcome technology, and we need to step up to the plate now. and am really pleased to see the Government’s proposals. I will not make a plea for my own constituency, but I When it comes to the Bill, I will make two final will make a plea for Northern Ireland as an area where points. First, there is the issue around commercialisation. we believe that we can help each other. As I have mentioned, £800 million is a modest amount. If we ever needed proof or a supreme example of just We can supercharge that, just as we need to supercharge how well we can do things—when I say “we”, I mean our 2.4% target by leveraging private investment. How the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern can we do that? We can look towards prizes that have Ireland; all of us better together under the Union flag, been established, such as the $10 million Ansari X which is where the strength of our co-operation and Prize, which has leveraged $100 million. ARPA in the friendship should be—who could fail to be amazed by States also relies heavily on SRI International at Stanford the development of the vaccine? From the start to the University to help drive the spin-outs. We need to be end, we have got a number of effective vaccines on the cautious about not leaving an open door when it comes streets within a year. After all the difficulties of the last to focusing on the “R” in research and then forgetting year, the success story has been the vaccine and its about the “D”. This has been mentioned before, but roll-out. Which of us did not feel a wee bit better when what we do not want to see is discoveries coming out of the vaccines were announced by the Health Secretary in ARIA being taken advantage of by other companies the Chamber? We could almost feel a smile on our face abroad. Weneed to look at how we protect the intellectual and a skip in our step. That was because of the scientists property. We need to look at how we can create an and the expertise that we have in this great United organisation that will focus on the “D”. I do not believe Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, leading that Innovate UK has the capacity at the moment to be the way. That is why I believe that the science and the able to achieve that, so we need to look at the Fraunhofer R&D can and, indeed, will succeed. in Germany, which spends 10 time the amount of investment than the catapult centres, for focusing on I can understand those who are concerned at the speed how we can look at applied level research for the future. of the vaccine development—they know that R&D usually takes years, but the coronavirus is an example of Then there is the issue of high risk. Yes, we need where it can take less time. The difference that dedicated high-risk research, and yes, we must have the freedom funding and governmental support makes is clear. The to fail, but we must also understand the risk when it Government and the Prime Minister in particular initially comes to collaboration with foreign powers, hostile made sure that money was set aside for the research. research and making sure that we have the right security Clearly that was a good move, and we thank them for it. measures in place for dealing with research integrity The money is there to roll out the programmes, hire the and that we have trusted research partnerships. That is staff and purchase the necessary equipment, and we why it is exactly right that we have the FOI exemption in have vaccines available because we invested; our place to be able to protect this research and make sure Government and our country—our great United Kingdom that other countries do not take advantage of it. of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—invested. 857 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 858 Agency Bill Agency Bill Imagine what we could achieve if we put resources of what we can achieve, and the potential can and must into other goals—if we thought big and funded those be exploited in a reasonable way for everyone in the thoughts. Is it wrong to aim for the stars? I do not think United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, it is. In the last year, we have aimed for the stars and always better together. achieved it. The right hon. Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore) referred to the moonshot goals. One Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Before I call of my favourite films is “It’s a Wonderful Life”. We all the next speaker, I point out that everyone remaining to know the scene where James Stewart’s character talks speak in this debate is from one political party, so if you about lassoing the moon, and it is not impossible to do go wildly over the five-minute mark, you may be pushing some things we have always talked about doing in a one of your colleagues off the list. There is a challenge romantic way. We can do great things in research and for Ian Liddell-Grainger. development through the moonshot goals. Of course there must be regulation and restrictions. 4.26 pm Common sense should go hand in hand with idealism, Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater and West Somerset) and we must ensure that safety is paramount. If we look (Con) [V]: For the next hour,I will enthuse you, Mr Deputy at what we have done, it shows the best of British and Speaker. Seriously though, the Bill has an enormous the best of what we can achieve, with co-operation amount going for it. It is a good Bill with a lot in it that between Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the I feel very comfortable with, although there are always mainland, as well as with our international colleagues; things that one can question. what a sight that is to behold. The Bill applies to the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern As you know, Mr Deputy Speaker, one of the great Ireland. Supporting scientific research and development sites in the United Kingdom is in my area—the Gravity sits within the legislative competence of the devolved site, just outside Bridgwater. This 660-acre enterprise nations—in my case, the Northern Ireland Assembly— zone has incredible potential. It is run by the Salamanca although specific reservations exist, and I look forward Group, with enormous support from the local community to the devolved nations contributing to this process and and Sedgemoor District Council. We could do something passing their consent. enormously important there with innovation, research and, I dare say, the very essence of what we want to be In a debate in Westminster Hall last week, at which in the future. It is easy for a Government to say they will the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and put all the money into universities or into proven areas, Industrial Strategy, the hon. Member for Derby North but I think of the Prime Minister’s policy of levelling up (Amanda Solloway), was present, I mentioned Queen’s and making sure that every region and every area gets University Belfast and the great partnerships that it has part of the money, be it for fusion or whatever. Let us in health research in particular to find cures for diseases use that constructively. such as cancer and diabetes. Every now and again, that The Gravity site is halfway between Bristol and Exeter. research has dividends and they are able to announce It is enormous and it has everything in place to enable some of the good things they have done. Again, I ask us to do something remarkable. We are close to Bath the Minister to ensure that we can all benefit from the University, Bristol University and Exeter University. partnerships with universities and companies. As others We could facilitate all this work. We are also very lucky have said, universities across the whole of the United in having next to the site one of the great tertiary Kingdom can deliver opportunities for people to progress colleges of the United Kingdom—the best, in my humble their degrees, carry out investigations and find cures. opinion. Bridgwater and Taunton College has 25,000 Northern Ireland has an excellent workforce—highly tertiary students. It has trained most of the people in skilled, young, capable and educated to the standard the local area, including those working at Hinkley Point that we all want. To give just one example, cyber-security nuclear station and in our huge distribution and massive in Northern Ireland is the best in the United Kingdom— manufacturing sectors. indeed, the best in Europe. I suggest to the House that We get a lot of, “This is about innovation,” but so our workforce, their skills and their capability be used much of what we have had to learn in the past year is as we all move forward together. about how to keep supply chains running during a My one note of caution is that while we must be pandemic or any other crisis. We have learned that, and ambitious, we must also be realistic. There cannot be a that is innovation. That is invention. That is what this is blank cheque for any project, but I believe that clause 3, all about—learning from mistakes. We have heard a lot on long-term ambition, must have a common-sense about vaccines, but again, we have a site where we could element and that projects must have an end date. We do this. We want to be levelled up. We want to strive to must be aware of our finite budget and of the need to do better. That is why sites like Gravity in the west fund projects that can provide immediate results and country lend themselves to the Government’s being able benefits such as pancreatic cancer drugs. I am my to say, “Yes, we can buy into this.” When there is a party’s health spokesperson, so I am very interested in shovel-ready site ready to go, it is fairly easy for any how we can work together to find cures for diseases and Government to say, “Yes, we can do this.” I would reduce the number of deaths they cause across the welcome the opportunity to prove our case. I know the whole of the United Kingdom. I look forward the fund Secretary of State is fully aware of the Gravity site being made available for health projects, as well as because we have talked about it and the opportunities. technological advances. This is something we have to grasp. It has proceeded I support our research and development, I support somewhat in the teeth of the local county council, the Bill and I support this Government and the Minister which has been particularly unhelpful, but we are ready. in the work she does. The Bill gives us a vision of the I am conscious of time and that colleagues wish to future—a vision that we must grasp. We have a glimpse speak, so let me say finally that I believe that the very 859 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 860 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger] the world to adapt patents or take the underlying principles and develop their own products, making many more future of the United Kingdom lies in innovation. Napoleon jobs and much more commercial success out of these called us the country of small shopkeepers. He was things than we did. The leaders of this body therefore right: we are brilliant at this sort of small innovation. need to ask how they will commercialise the ideas, how So much of the tech, the FinTech and all the other big a role that will play, and at what point they will work things that we now take for granted came from the with commercial companies that could come in and United Kingdom. It came not just through our great take advantage. universities, but through our entrepreneurs—in the west That leads on to the issue of security. I do not think country, we have Dyson, who lives just outside Bristol. British taxpayers want to spend more money on blue-sky Let us use what is great about Britain, which is our research and interesting technical ideas only to see them ability to think outside the box, laterally, in a way that taken away, perhaps resulting in many more products turns the world on. Rah-rah Britain, and rah-rah Gravity. for the Chinese to export back to the United Kingdom. What we want is that integrated approach, where the ideas that the Government have helped to pay for 4.31 pm through this body, working with universities and perhaps John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con) [V]: Of course I with companies, can go on to be commercialised and welcome the idea that we should do everything we can add to the stock of wealth and jobs and make a wider to promote greater science and better technology. Our contribution to the human position. country has a fine history and tradition of scientific I suggest that the Government link the development breakthroughs and scientific excellence in our universities of this body to the work that they have started to do, and our scientific societies. We also have a fine tradition and they need to do much more widely, on national in technology,with entrepreneurs developing new industrial resilience. I am an admirer of what President Biden has processes and new products and making great set out to do in the United States of America on supply breakthroughs that have benefited humanity widely, chains. He has a very ambitious programme—a 100-day and of course we should do everything we can to programme for targeted sectors and a one-year programme support that. There may well also be a gap that this for all the sectors of the US economy. It is looking at body can fill between all the methods we have of backing what America can do better, at where America needs to science and technology, and I wish it every success. fill in gaps in her knowledge and understanding of In his introductory remarks, the Minister pointed to patent, designs and specifications, at where America the recent great success of universities, companies, medics, needs to put in new capacity to avoid shortages or more scientists and Government in coming together—here hostile powers interrupting her production processes by and elsewhere, but particularly here—on the AstraZeneca- withholding import, and at where the Government machine Oxford vaccine. Why did that work? Because there was can use intelligent procurement, appropriate grants and a very clear, defined task. There was great excellence interventions to work with the private sector to have a and expertise already in companies and university science, much better supply chain, creating more jobs and providing and the Government helped to bring that together, to national resilience. pump-prime the process and then to provide very large I hope that the agency will look at what we can do to orders, as did other Governments and health services ensure that we make our weapons and defence requirements, around the world, to make it worthwhile and to defeat as the new policy suggests that we will do more often. It the virus. should look at how we can grow more food and make sure that we have more of our own fish so that we have Now, we hope that do not have too many of those fewer food miles and more national resilience in the concentrated needs, but that model worked without food chain. It should look at a series of industrial areas ARIA, so this body has to define something a bit where we have in the past been very successful to see different from that. I notice that MPs are already discussing where we can improve the technology and add to the the adequacy or inadequacy of its resources, by which UK capacity to produce. they usually mean money. I do not think it is possible to have any idea of what would be a good and realistic My suggestion to Ministers is that the first task is to budget for it until talented people have been appointed get really excellent people; the second is to work with to run it and have set out what it is trying to do. The them on defining realistic and achievable objectives; first thing the Government need to do, therefore, following and the third is to ensure that the agency is properly the success of this legislation—I am sure it will pass resourced—£800 million might be the right amount, quite easily—is to appoint really great people to lead but if the agency comes up with really worthwhile this organisation who just have that feel, that touch and things that look as though they will work, we will want that intelligence to judge risk, to sense opportunity, to to back it with more money. If it was not getting very see where the niches are and to define the unique far, I think a number of MPs who say that they do not breakthroughs and areas where this body can make a mind failure would become rather more critical. This serious contribution. As some have said, a scattergun will need quite a lot of ministerial and parliamentary approach is probably not going to work; trying to do supervision. I wish the agency every success, and I look too much across too broad a spread would require a lot forward to hearing to more detail about what it is trying of good fortune. This body will need some targeting. to do. ARIA then has to work out how it commercialises whatever it produces. The UK has had a century or 4.37 pm more of plenty of breakthroughs and technical innovations, Chris Green (Bolton West) (Con): It is a pleasure to but in quite a lot of cases we did not go on to commercialise follow my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham and exploit opportunities, and we allowed others around (John Redwood), who captured a number of key issues. 861 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 862 Agency Bill Agency Bill He finished on the topic of national resilience, and there around in 10 or more years’time, but this is the ambition— are so many areas in our economy and society in which this is the timeline, this is the vision for the future that we need to be more resilient. The covid crisis is a ARIA has. particular area of interest, but no doubt many other The SNP spokesman, the hon. Member for Aberdeen countries in the world and many organisations are South (Stephen Flynn), started off with a war of words looking at that. It may not be the opportunity on which about where the headquarters will be, and he suggested the Advanced Research and Invention Agency might it might end up being in London. I am sure it will not; I want to focus. Many other people have focused on the am sure there is a huge amount of competition around idea of disruptive technologies, which might be particularly the country, and I thought my hon. Friend the Member well fitted to what ARIA is there to do. Those are areas for Bolton North East (Mark Logan) made a compelling where industry or sectors have perhaps become complacent, argument for Bolton. I am quite modest in my ambitions with old, established technologies, and it is about making and would not demand that the headquarters be located the next-generation leap forward. in Bolton West; I will sacrifice my personal ambition for Bolton North East—or even Bolton South East. Where The debate has rather lent itself to the idea of the the headquarters ends up is incredibly important as it is Haldane principle, going back 100 years or so—to the part of the Government’s levelling-up agenda, but will idea of having a research-led approach that is therefore my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Amanda taken away from the direction of politicians.That approach Solloway), the science and innovation Minister, confirm would be natural and healthy and would complement that, wherever ARIA is based, it will be a collaborative the wider research, innovation and development ecosystem. organisation that will do so much for the United Kingdom? I was reassured by what my hon. Friend the Member for Rugby (Mark Pawsey) said; after he had conversations with a couple of his local catapults, they said that they 4.43 pm are not worried that ARIA might step on their toes. It is Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure to a natural complement to so much else of what the follow my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West Government are doing. This championing of science, (Chris Green). As mentioned by my hon. Friend the technology, innovation and invention is immensely Member for Havant (Alan Mak), scientific and engineering important, and it ought to be very reassuring to businesses leaders—such as Stephenson who almost 200 years ago and other organisations seeking to invest in the United started passenger rail travel on the Darlington to Stockton Kingdom, and ideally also companies seeking to reinvest railway on the Aycliffe levels in my Sedgefield constituency from the UK and into the UK. It sends the message —stimulated changes that we could not imagine. The right across the world that we are ambitious—the global bicentenary of this event in my constituency is 2025 and Britain idea that we are not looking inward and downward we look forward to welcoming visitors to see the celebration. but out to the world. This Bill can be an inspiration for more leaders to grow That is part of the reason for our ambition by 2027 to up among our young people as they see that our country take our R&D spend to 2.4% of GDP.That is a stepping- supports the development and motivation of great ideas. stone, not the end point of the ambition. The ambition In speaking in support of this Bill, I remind the is to get to 3% in the longer term, looking to emulate House that we heard in the Business, Energy and Industrial other countries around the world who do that, and to Strategy Committee that the UK ARPA needs to be be competitive. To be in the position we want to be in able to take risks. It therefore must be kept at arm’s and ought to be in, we need to be seeking to reach that length from existing public R&D structures to avoid next level of 3% R&D spend, and ARIA is a stepping-stone culture-capture. Many of the UK’s existing research towards that. bodies seek to manage out risk, which is contrary to the terms of the UK ARPA, which must be able to tackle Ultimately we want high-tech, innovative progress in high-risk, high-reward projects with pace and energy. the United Kingdom. That is not an end in itself. Universities and other organisations are not an end in Wewere also informed that the Science and Technology themselves; they are great generators of wealth to improve Committee had been told that creating a British ARPA our standards of living, but ultimately what people could be destructive if it were to end up overlapping around the country will be focused on is having good with the responsibilities of existing structures. It is jobs. We want people right around the country to be important that we address these points; I believe this ambitious: to seek jobs in this sector, and to be studying proposal does so but would like the Minister to confirm physics and mathematics and all sorts of other subjects it. For too long we have not delivered the support that that will come into this territory for research and delivers innovation into a commercial space and this development, invention and innovation. can be a lever to help. I have on many occasions since joining this place It will be interesting to see how in future ARIA works referred to the hierarchy of knowledge: there are things on that invention side of things with UKRI, which is we know; things we don’t know; but also things that we still relatively new, to get those inventions into innovation don’t know we don’t know. It is this latter space that I and into businesses, and to create those works and have found myself in so many times in the last 15 months. those jobs of the future. We could go on to mention so It is also the space that ARIA is to work in. It therefore many different topics from nuclear fusion to the next feels appropriate that its remit is vaguer than some generation of batteries to satellites. There are so many colleagues might like. This clearly makes the determination sectors that involve artificial intelligence and life sciences, of its leadership critical, and this process must be and so many of them are in the UK. We are already in a credible and given time. leading position and we have the opportunity to make I will further explain my support by using a real-world that leap forward. We do not know what sectors will be example from a company that has already raised with 863 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 864 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Paul Howell] forces, and provide the potential for us to be more self-sufficient and an exporter of products, rather than me its belief that ARIA can be a force to develop UK of IP and jobs. innovation. There is a business in my Sedgefield constituency I welcome the creation of this fund and hope that its called Kromek. It is an innovation and export-led business initiatives are successful. I also hope that the expenditure in the UK and California that is based at NETPark in is viewed in context and does not become the target of Sedgefield, which is the home of similar innovative pressure from the first failure, but rather that it is given businesses, including Catapult. Of course, this is in the time and space to deliver. addition to the newly announced economic campus in Darlington that will include an International Trade footprint. The area would therefore be an outstanding 4.49 pm site for ARIA to base itself. Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure Given the space that Kromek operates in and its to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield footprint in the USA, it is very used to working with (Paul Howell). DARPA. That is interesting, because we understand This is the second time I have been able to speak on that the intention is for ARIA to be in the same sort of this programme, the first being in the Budget debate, space. Kromek has worked with a number of innovation and it is safe to say that as a proud Conservative and agencies. For businesses like Kromek, innovation-led businessman, I am extremely excited about this initiative. funding that accepts a higher risk can be the key that This Government have spent much on supporting this opens scientific advances quicker. It also provides better country as it has battled against coronavirus, and that opportunities for such companies to develop production has been hugely appreciated by many in my constituency, and supply chains in the UK, and, in Kromek’s case, in but now is the time that we look at ways in which we can the north-east—helping the levelling-up agenda and raise revenue and transform our economy for the better. frustrating the brain drain. The ability to borrow money comes only through ARIA can provide transformational change to the being a responsible debtor and showing your creditors innovation landscape by helping to create technology that you are serious about paying the money back. If we and solutions to address current UK needs. For example, are to maintain our position as a fiscally prudent country, Kromek developed a unique radiation detection solution we have three choices: spending less, taxing more, or that is now protecting critical infrastructure in New growing our economy, primarily through exports. We York. The products developed under this programme must not forget that, as predicted by the Office for have been sold in more than 25 countries around the Budget Responsibility, spending will reduce through world so far. Further investment here could mean massive the roll-out of the vaccine and the subsequent opening job opportunities. I invite any Minister who is visiting up of the economy. Furthermore, we now know that the the north-east to join me in visiting this exceptional books will not be balanced through one-off wealth tax organisation, to understand the difference that an grabs that were predicted; instead, the Chancellor rightly innovation-led business can make. decided to introduce a tiered system of corporation tax while still encouraging investment through super deductions. Kromek is currently working with DARPA to develop a virus detection system that can detect viruses, including Today I want to touch on growth through innovation covid-19, in open spaces. With ARIA support, these and exports. This innovative and export-led growth will initiatives could be more UK-oriented and leverage of course only be possible if the UK has the best more UK supply chain growth. The company has created products and services to sell. This is possible now, more a whole biotech part of the business, and because of than ever, as we are no longer constrained by Brussels this funding, this part of the business has already created red tape. By establishing the Advanced Research and 20 high-paid jobs and intellectual property in the space; Invention Agency, we can finally fund our budding it has real leverage potential. scientists, inventors and visionaries properly.The high-risk, high-value objective of the agency will ensure that the ARIA, like DARPA, is to be positioned so that it can very best talent that the UK has to offer can solve cut through most of the bureaucracy and act at speed. problems, introduce ideas and create technological wonders It is speed and greater risk acceptance that facilitate that would not otherwise be possible. That is not just for innovation within the necessary timeframe. For ARIA, show: this new approach will help to create wealth, jobs we must be cognisant that not all rolls of the dice will be and prosperous futures for decades to come. After all, successful, but that the funds we are risking are similar projects are what led to the creation of the proportionate and appropriate for the potential they internet and other transformative technologies that we could deliver—not just in hard cash, but also in mindset. once considered unimaginable. As highlighted, if we are Standing behind funds like this gives the investor confidence again to become the workshop of the world, research of intent, and encourages innovation and risk taking. and innovation projects must not be hindered by ARIA can help businesses to develop products and bureaucracy and slow decision making. Only then can services linked to real-life applications that can meet the the real risk-takers go ahead so that our innovators can needs of the UK. As a result, it can make not only the be set free and get on with formulating and envisioning companies globally more competitive, but the UK more the next great technological changes of the 21st century. sustainable in its capabilities; and it can drive global With the budget being offered to ARIA, I know they Britain as a world leader in innovation. The support will be able to. of investment in innovation and innovative research, We have seen through this pandemic what talent our particularly in places such as Sedgefield, has the potential country has at its disposal. ARIA will unleash this talent to help build back better and support levelling up. It and no doubt help to catapult our great industries on to can also make UK products to support our security the world stage, thus bringing our trade deficit and 865 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 866 Agency Bill Agency Bill national debt down and supercharging a green industrial our brightest and best scientists, and that they have not revolution right here in the UK. Yet the Advanced only the funding and freedom needed to identify and Research and Invention Agency can only unleash this invest in the most important and innovative research talent if its chief executive is forward-thinking and a but the flexibility to redirect funding quickly when a real visionary, for we are embarking on something truly project has come to the end of its lifespan. To that end, revolutionary in the world of innovation and technological I would be interested to hear from my right hon. Friend advancement. In other words, this initiative is far too the Minister how she will ensure that ARIA is not important to be left in the hands of someone who does constrained by the bureaucracy that can currently inhibit not share the stated aim of supercharging scientific R&D funding. discovery. I hope the Department advertises this position Alongside ensuring appropriate funding, flexibility widely and is meticulous in appointing the right person and freedom, we also need to ensure that we mirror the who can lead this aspirational agency forward. USA’s culture of tolerance for failure, which is a huge As someone who prides themselves on being a part of research and development and often the key to constituency-focused MP,I say to the people of Don Valley: its success.If we allow the risk of failure to hamper research, “Do not think that what we are discussing here today we ultimately jeopardise our pursuit of breakthroughs will not affect you. Quite the contrary; the establishment and potentially our ability to happen across another of the Advanced Research and Invention Agency is as promising technology in the process. Instead, we should much for you as it is for anyone else in this country, for I provide scope for failure within the agency, and I would know that future innovators, scientists and entrepreneurs be interested to hear from my right hon. Friend how from Don Valley will all benefit from this forward-looking, that can be achieved. exciting programme.” Finally, if the Government truly By creating the space to maximise potential in our want to demonstrate their commitment to levelling up United Kingdom, we not only give all aspects of the the north, there will be no better way of doing so than economy the chance to bounce back now but create new by establishing this agency right here in Doncaster. routes to market for the future. New ideas and invention are the ways in which disruptor technology and science 4.54 pm are created, leading to a new way of living for our Jane Hunt (Loughborough) (Con): It is a pleasure to future. Many of the great minds we have in this country follow my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley have the potential to create great change; they just need (Nick Fletcher) and his wise words. For decades the UK the opportunity to come their way.ARIA is the opportunity. has been at the cutting edge of innovation and technology, Let us not stifle innovation. Let us find the next internet, and our fantastic universities in particular have been a the next GPS and the next hydrogen technology. Now powerhouse of science and research. They include the that we have left the EU, we are in a great position to formidable Loughborough University in my constituency, reimagine how we support our researchers and harness which has a global reputation for its cutting edge theoretical our research base to cement ourselves as a global science and applied research. It has been responsible for,and party superpower. The Bill will go a long way to achieve this, to, many technological advances and scientific discoveries, and I will be supporting it today. including a recently announced and incredibly exciting project that is looking into the potential for human 4.58 pm brain stem cells to be used to power artificial intelligence Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): It is an honour devices and bring about a revolution in computing. to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough One of my aims as an MP is to assist in creating (Jane Hunt). On Anglesey, we have a huge focus on pathways between our universities and businesses to research and innovation, which fits perfectly with the ensure that talent and research are maximised so that remit of ARIA. Our island hosts the Menai science park projects such as these can be turned from an initial idea —M-SParc—which is Bangor University’shub for creative into an innovative and marketable product. As such, I and STEM innovation. The park supports companies am fully supportive of Loughborough University’s science and businesses in the low-carbon, energy and environment, and enterprise park, which provides businesses of all ICT and natural product sectors, and links into the sizes, including start-ups, with an opportunity not only green energy agenda that Anglesey embraces through to collaborate with one another but to access the university’s its Energy Island initiative. Professor Iwan Davies, the research base and skilled workforce supply. As the vice-chancellor of Bangor University, said to me recently: Minister and I witnessed last year in a science showcase “At Bangor University we treat innovation and entrepreneurship in Portcullis House, this country has a wealth of ideas as an ecosystem with impact. An important pathway to impact is and innovations just waiting to be shaped and developed. supporting funding for research and I welcome ARIA funding That being said, there is still much more we can do to which can support the role that universities can play in promoting harness and grow our research and development sector, innovation, which is so often non-linear in its development.” which is why I am very supportive of the UK’s R&D M-SParc has already seen the benefits of Innovate UK road map. In particular, we need to focus on creating funding, with more than £1 million invested in 2020 in more and stronger pathways between universities, research businesses such as Haia and BIC Innovation. Menter establishments and transformational businesses, and on Môn—another resident at M-SParc—has spearheaded removing unnecessary bureaucracy. That is something the work on the Holyhead Hydrogen Hub, which was the USA does very well, and it is the reason that it is awarded £4.8m funding in my right hon. Friend the incredibly successful in bringing innovative products to Chancellor’sBudget earlier this month. Bangor University, market. I therefore welcome the Government’s proposals M-SParc and Menter Môn are all part of my Anglesey for the Advanced Research and Invention Agency modelled freeport bidding consortium, and we are working together on the USA’sDefence Advanced Research Projects Agency. on a proposal to bring freeport status to Anglesey, with Crucially, we need to ensure that the agency is run by an emphasis on local innovation. 867 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 868 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Virginia Crosbie] North Wales is no stranger to technological advancements, and I am proud that Airbus has a strong Through UK Government funding, businesses and base in our region, with a 50-year plus track record of opportunities like these are able to grow and generate innovation and technological firsts, meaning that it is a much-needed local employment. Young people across pioneer in the aerospace world. It is fantastic that one the island tell me that they want to be able to afford of the central elements of the agency is its ability to their own home, bring up their families in their community, deliver funding quickly to researchers across the UK; and keep the and culture alive, and to the £800 million committed to ARIA over the next four do this they need a good quality job on Anglesey. years has the potential to greatly benefit many different This July I will be hosting an innovation jobs fair at sectors, including aerospace. M-SParc which I am proud to say will be opened by my As Airbus is so vital to Delyn’s economy, I share a hon. Friend the Minister for Science, Research and sense of regret a little that the Budget did not mention Innovation. Not only will this fair highlight the good funding for the aerospace sector through the Aerospace quality well-paid jobs that are being made available as a Technology Institute.Airbus has experienced a 69% decrease result of UK funding, but it will raise awareness among in net orders compared to 2019, and the additional local young people of the opportunities afforded to funding that the Bill provides is needed now more than them through scientific endeavour. ever to ensure that research and technological advancements By filling a gap in the UK’s current R&D funding can continue long into the future. I am keen to see how system and focusing on funding paradigm-shifting science, ARIA works with and complements the ATI to further ARIA will provide a new source of finance that can be fund world-class research and development in this important used by operations such as M-SParc to support sector. transformational science projects that create real long-term I am likewise ecstatic to see that a key element of the benefit locally, nationally and globally. agency includes a tolerance for failure. Failure is an The Managing Director of M-SParc, Pryderi ap Rhisiart important part of any individual or business life and is said: fundamental to success. As said many “R&D Funding is crucial for our network of innovative companies years ago, on the Menai Science Park. Despite the pandemic I have been “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” especially pleased to see so many tenant companies securing R&D Funding, working with our Universities and growing in the Without his efforts and many failed attempts, we would region.” not have the technology on which we rely so much By stimulating and supporting cutting-edge research today.Failure is particularly central to finding technological and development, the ARIA fund also offers an opportunity breakthroughs that have the potential to create the for both Bangor University and Coleg Menai to attract industries and jobs for the future, and it is fantastic to exciting new talent to the region, creating further seams see that that is recognised in the Bill. I have long said of innovation and enterprise. that we need to have a greater focus in the UK education As a scientist myself, I am excited that ARIA will system on skills, because many of the jobs that our empower the science community to identify and fund children will be going into have not even been thought creative and groundbreaking research that can ensure of yet, and it will be skills and the adaptability of our the UK remains at the forefront of global innovation. education and training that will add to and enhance The fund will allow the UK to be more responsive and ARIA in future. flexible so that projects can be supported to give maximum I have said many times on these Benches that one of impact. the main reasons that I joined the Conservative party I welcome the introduction of the Advanced Research in the first place was empowerment. One of my fundamental and Invention Agency Bill and this new funding agency beliefs is that capital belongs in the hands of the and I look forward to welcoming my hon. Friend the people, not the state—that innovation is found in the Minister to Anglesey to open the island’s first innovation imagination and inventiveness of the community, away jobs fair. from the bureaucracy and painfully slow machinations of government. Therefore, nothing filled me with more delight than read about the agency under the section 5.2 pm headed “Organisational Form”the words “small number Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con): It is a delight to follow of programme managers with significant autonomy”, my colleague from the beautiful island of Ynys Môn on followed by the section headed “Relationship to this crucial and exciting Bill—well, exciting on the Government” which included the magic words “very Conservative Benches anyway, as I look at the rows of free from Government direction”. It was music not only empty seats on the other side of the House. to my ears, but, I am sure, to those of the scientific The UK has always been a world leader in scientific community at large. research and innovation. Creations such as the steam Throughout history, giants of seemingly disparate engine, antibiotics and even the internet hail from our fields of literature, science and sport have all agreed wonderful shores. Considering that all those discoveries with the same principles. Two of my favourite quotes have been instrumental in shaping the world that we from Einstein are that we “cannot solve our problems know today, I welcome the Bill, which will work to with the same thinking we used” to get them, and: maintain the UK’sposition as a global science superpower. “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you The Advanced Research and Invention Agency created everywhere.” by this Bill will allow us to continue to build back better through innovation and will be vital in the UK’s economic He also said: and social recovery. “I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.” 869 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 870 Agency Bill Agency Bill It is curiosity and passion for discovery that will chart life sciences venture capitalist on hold, and used her the course for the future of science in this country. industry and investment experience to direct the UK’s I mentioned earlier that failure is nothing to be feared vaccine purchasing strategy—an outsider in conventional and is, in fact, absolutely desirable. One of the most research council terms; someone empowered to take celebrated sportsmen of his generation, Michael Jordan— swift decisions, comfortable with owning those decisions, arguably the greatest basketball player ever to grace the while politicians had her back, and were not peering court—said: over her shoulder. “I’ve missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I’ve lost A year into the pandemic, despite limited buying almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I’ve been trusted to take the power, we have secured deals for more than 400 million game-winning shot and missed. I’ve failed over and over and over doses of covid-19 vaccine, and we lead all the global … again And that is why I succeed.” rankings for roll-out speed for a country of our size. Another celebrated sportsman, ice hockey star Wayne It is a magnificent, unadulterated success, but it pains Gretzky, said that the only thing that is ever guaranteed me greatly that, rather than being a united national is that effort, that had to be achieved in the teeth of opposition, “you will definitely not achieve the goal if you don’t take the shot.” with members of the party led by the right hon. Member In conclusion, the Bill ensures that this Conservative for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) still calling for Government maintain their commitment to increasing us to be part of an EU-wide vaccines programme. public research and development funding and ensure Disruption works, and we need more of it. No one is that this country remains a world leader in scientific saying that ARIA will live in a bat cave—perhaps research and innovation. By pursuing a highly ambitious it should—or occupy a perfect vacuum, but limited agenda, ARIA will provide transformational science exemptions from freedom of information and public and technology,and I look forward to seeing the economic procurement rules make perfect sense. I do not envy the and societal benefits that it will bring to the UK. Opposition their job today—clearly neither do they—and Earlier, I mentioned literature, so I will end on a quote I question whether the right hon. Member for Doncaster from one of the giants, Mark Twain. His words embody North (Edward Miliband) was a Cummings-ite. Not exactly what I think this Bill seeks to achieve: only should he accept that as a compliment, but he “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the should know that we generally welcome the Opposition’s things you didn’t do than by the ones you did. So throw off the constructive tone on the Bill. Perhaps in the winding-up bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in speeches we will learn whether the hon. Member for your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.” Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) describes herself as a Dom disciple. 5.7 pm The Opposition take issue with the disapplication of Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): freedom of information measures to the new invention It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for agency. I not only point to public bodies that benefit Delyn (Rob Roberts), who has added to our lexicon of from similar exclusions, including the BBC and Channel 4, quotes most eloquently today. Today is the national day but I am very much with the former boss of the right of reflection, and I join my thoughts to those of the hon. Member for Doncaster North—the former Member Prime Minister when he said: for Sedgefield, who wrote in his autobiography: “The last 12 months has taken a huge toll on us all, and”— “Freedom of Information…Three harmless words. I look at we offer our those words as I write them, and feel like shaking my head ’til it “sincere condolences to those who have lost loved ones.” drops off. You idiot. You naive, foolish, irresponsible nincompoop. There is really no description of stupidity, no matter how vivid, I remember my own father, John Griffith, who passed that is adequate.” away from covid on 2 April last year. I conclude where I began. This is a rare and excellent Sometimes—not often, but sometimes—an idea comes piece of policy that I hope everyone in the House can along that makes so much sense that we just want to get get behind. It has been welcomed by the chief scientific on with it and see it succeed. Today’s Bill is one such adviser, the head of UKRI and the head of the Royal proposal. It is bold, additive and disruptive, very much Academy of Engineering. It piles up money invested in like, if I may say so, my wonderful colleagues on these research and development to ever greater heights, and Benches from the 2019 intake—and I will support each by introducing a pinprick of disruptive process and and every one of their bids for the location of ARIA. It innovation into Government funding, perhaps its biggest comes against the context of this Government’s already long-term impact will not be the money spent by ARIA world-leading approach to research and development: but the leverage of that disruption, making even more increasing spending to 2.4% of GDP by 2027 and productive the billions of money that is spent elsewhere. £22 billion by 2024, publishing the R&D road map, setting out a vision for global talent and making the UK the best place in the world for scientists, researchers 5.13 pm and entrepreneurs. Only this week, the Government consulted on cutting red tape to free up our brightest (Guildford) (Con) [V]: I am delighted minds so that they can continue to make cutting-edge to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and discoveries while cementing the UK’s status as a science South Downs (Andrew Griffith) and participate in the world superpower. Second Reading of the Advanced Research and Invention If we have learned anything at all from the past Agency Bill. In what at times has been a gloomy and 12 months it is that we need more disruption, not less. difficult year since we locked down last March, it is Look at the success of the Vaccine Taskforce, ably led wonderful to debate a Bill that is truly blue sky in its by Kate Bingham. Last summer, she put her role as a thinking and forward looking, and which delivers on 871 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 872 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Angela Richardson] and so this encapsulates the vision around this important Bill. With its adoption, we can get UK science, research our manifesto commitment to create a high-risk, high- and development truly humming. reward funding agency that will drive UK innovation as we build back better from the coronavirus pandemic. 5.17 pm It was a pleasure to discuss the Bill with the Under- Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con): It is a pleasure Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Guildford Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Angela Richardson) and to speak in this debate, because (Amanda Solloway), before Second Reading. I am happy this Bill demonstrates our national ambition. The creation to tell the House, as I did her, that science, research an of an Advanced Research and Invention Agency is a clear innovation are certainly not my “Mastermind”subject—as statement of intent on science and technology, research it clearly is for many hon. and right hon. Members who and development, and innovation and entrepreneurialism. have spoken today. I am grateful for the opportunity to It means that when we say we want to be a superpower listen to their expertise and important contributions, in all those things, we mean it and the world knows it. especially those who outlined our wonderful history as It also means that we have a tangible impact in those a world leader in innovation in the past. Instead, I have areas. All this matters because research, development, an enormous interest, derived as a constituency MP, in science, technology, innovation and entrepreneurialism the success of this Bill, and I congratulate all involved are directly linked to our prosperity and to the job on securing £800 million of funding from the Treasury. creation that all our constituents rely on. This is what Guildford is home to the brilliant University of Surrey will determine the kind of economy we have for decades and Surrey research park, and exciting sectors such as to come, not just here in the UK, but around the world. space and satellite. Guildford is not only a UK leader, Will it be an economy based on UK designs and UK but a global hub in gaming and technology derived ideas,fed by our universities and research centres,businesses from the gaming sector, such as virtual reality. and entrepreneurs, or will be a global economy based Although we do not know what ARIA will eventually on the ideas of others? We all know in this House what focus on, my understanding of the intention behind the we would rather it be, and ARIA is the way we can Bill is that it is to transform our lives and make the deliver that. world a better place. I hope that climate change can be However, there is a question about what we model tackled as a result of investment in either UKRI or ARIA on. Is it an accelerator? Is it a funder? Is it a ARIA. I am on record with my desire, expressed at a venture capitalist? Or is it a moonshot organisation, climate hustings I attended during the general election one that tackles the tough questions that we might not campaign in 2019, to see brilliant inventions help to even have asked yet and that tolerates failure? On that, I tackle climate change. Climate change is a concern I recommend that we look really closely at DARPA. We share with my constituents, and I will support any heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for measure to truly improve the future outlook for generations, Kingswood (Chris Skidmore), who referenced a number not only in the UK, but the entire world, which we live of organisations around the world—not just DARPA in in and share. the US, but others in Japan, Germany and other such This is not just about climate change; the research places—but DARPA has been truly transformational. undertaken has the potential ability to transform our In 1960, it launched the Transit satellite,the first space-based way of life through technology, improve economic growth navigation satellite. Twenty-three years later, in 1983, and prosperity, and even to improve the quality of the the US Marine Corps went to DARPA and said that it lives we live, particularly through healthcare solutions. I was fantastic that it had that navigation, but it needed it have been able to witness the wonder of robotic surgery to be smaller—smaller than we had ever contemplated at the Royal Surrey County Hospital; it is truly mind- before—and DARPA did it. That invention led to GPS blowing, and it is technology we have at our fingertips receivers in our , smartwatches and cars. It today. is what allows farmers to irrigate their fields remotely To say that I am excited about this Bill is an and logistics companies to get products from China to understatement. I might have even mentioned to the the UK, monitoring from one centre. Minister that Guildford would be an excellent home for In 1969, when DARPA was known as ARPA, it ARIA, as we have an innate understanding of the value launched the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network, of research and development, coupled with a cultural ARPANET, a pioneering network for data to be shared appreciation of the long-term benefits that high-risk, between computers in two different locations. Ten years high-return investing will bring. Clearly there is some later,in 1979, it launched the internet protocol—IP—which friendly competition for the home of ARIA, having packaged data up and sent it. DARPA then introduced listened to the pitches from many of my hon. Friends the computer mouse as a way of allowing us to interface today. It is absolutely right that ARIA must sit outside with computers, something now so commonplace that electoral cycles and the day-to-day ministerial functions we do not give it a second thought. Much more recently, in order to truly deliver on the Bill’s intention. It in 2002, DARPA launched its Personal Assistant that fundamentally must be judged by what it learns through Learns programme to create a cognitive computer system. failure, rather than what it produces in measurable Today we know that as Siri, and it is on iPhones across output, although it is also right that there should be an the world. annual report directly to Parliament—I welcome the I mention all that because it shows that these things inclusion of that in the Bill. have the potential to shape the modern world, and our To conclude on a slightly tangential note, ARIA is an ambition and optimism for ARIA should be equal to inspired acronym. In music, an aria is a self-contained that. We should aim to shape the world—not just the melodious piece for one voice, not the whole orchestra, world we know now, but the world decades into the 873 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 874 Agency Bill Agency Bill future—to create the things that we have not even Much as the £800 million allocated in this Parliament thought about but that will be the backbone of our will be welcomed by the research community, the greatest economy and economies around the world. contribution of ARIA will be the expression of intent However, I want to make a recommendation to the that it articulates. We are living in a new world in which Government. The thing that set DARPA apart and led the cosy certainties of previous years are no longer to its success was having a client—a customer who there. That democratic western societies have technological could ask the questions and show the problems that and economic superiority is no longer a given. Membership DARPA then went on to fix, and who could flag the of the protectionist European trading bloc has been left programmes that it needed. We have lots of Departments behind. Our leaving the has provoked and organisations that could be that client. It could be a new spirit of national endeavour. Depending on one’s the NHS and healthcare. Do we want to be a leader in politics, this is either in response to opportunity or out healthcare, asking the difficult questions and looking of necessity—it does not really matter. What is important for solutions for treating an ageing population and is that we recognise the change in attitudes and do all we dealing with remote healthcare? Could it be the Department can to promote it. for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, looking at The creation of ARIA reflects this new dynamism: let how we get battery technology into homes, how we do us learn from the lessons of covid, breakdown bureaucratic carbon capture, and all those things? Is it Defence, as it barriers and be prepared to take risks and accept failures is in the US, with its unique ability to look across the as part of the price of ambition. Global Britain must be whole of society, from logistics and communications to not just a marketing slogan but a reflection of countless civil contingency and health? Or is it all of the above? If investment decisions in boardrooms right throughout it is all of the above, then we should match our optimism the country. ARIA is part of a wider message to business and ambition with funding. and society as a whole that post-Brexit Britain is dynamic, ARIA demonstrates our ambition to the world. It taking control of its future rather than just hoping for could, if successful, genuinely shape our economy and something that is not too bad. It is saying no to the the economy of the whole world, but it needs to be status quo and its cosy relative decline; it is saying yes to given a direction so that it can ask questions, channel the new, to the unproven, to the possible, to the research and deliver prosperity for the nation, and it opportunities of low-carbon growth and to scientific needs to be free from the shackles that normally govern endeavour. It is as much a response to the lessons taught Whitehall, tolerating failure, and allowed to innovate to us by the Chinese Government as it is a lesson free from political interference. learned from the United States of America. I suspect it will just be the start. 5.22 pm DARPA has in the US military a guaranteed customer, Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con) [V]: It is a clichéd helping with the development of commercial products truism that research and development is the growth of from its technological advances. Close attention will tomorrow. It is an expression of confidence in the need to be given to this process of commercial exploitation. future prosperity of our country. Recent modelling by Is there a role for Government to create markets and Cambridge Econometrics suggests that increasing R&D prime industries? The deindustrialisation of globalisation investment to 2.4% of GDP by 2027 would boost has delivered us cheaper products in the short term, but annual growth by between 1.2% and 1.4%, and increase there is a difference between offshoring production, and our productivity by 1%, with further increases thereafter. with it the hubs of capacity and expertise, and growing It is obviously the right course of action for the Government a resilient domestic manufacturing base. To ignore that to continue to grow investment in R&D from the historic is to pretend that the geopolitics of the world have not lows of the last Labour Government. changed in the past 10 years. We need to respond to that, and the response involves the shortening of supply The lion’s share of Government investment is rightly chains. I therefore welcome the focus on UK exploitation channelled through UKRI, with its objective of growing as well as UK exploration. a large and vibrant research and innovation culture throughout the UK. UKRI is deeply engaged with both As for the criticism of the Opposition parties, they the academic community and the business community, have a choice: they can snipe from the sidelines, waiting and it will continue to do the heavy lifting in this sector. to pounce on the mistakes of those brave enough to try ARIA will provide something additional to the mix. new things, or they can support our dynamism, recognising that risk and opportunity are the two sides of the same Looking around the world for examples of effective coin. The Government have made the right choice in applications of R&D investment, I am glad that the this Bill and they should be supported. Government have learned from the experience of others. DARPA has been instrumental in assisting the crossover of research into commercial opportunities, despite having 5.27 pm an overt focus on defence technologies. Given its global impact and consequent reputation, it is surprising to Anthony Browne (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): If learn that it is a small organisation. I looked it up you do not mind, Mr Deputy Speaker, I wish to make a and found that it has around 220 employees, yet it slight confession: I am suffering from a rather extreme supports some 250 research projects and has a track out-of-body experience. I have spent the past three and record to be proud of, as referred to by many speakers, a half hours listening to Members from all parties—from including my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley not just the Conservatives but Labour, the SNP, the (Antony Higginbotham). DARPA has been operating Liberal Democrats and the DUP—praising the Advanced since 1958, so it is fair to say that the Government have Research and Invention Agency.I am having an out-of-body allowed the start-up wrinkles to be ironed out before experience not because the House is the most united it emulating its success. has been since I arrived in this place, but because it is so 875 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 876 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Anthony Browne] not fit into any of the general pots we already have. ARIA needs to be able to give grants to projects that it united behind an idea promoted by Dominic Cummings. thinks are worthwhile. It has to have flexibility, and that That shows what an indisputably good idea it must be. means not going through the public procurement rules It is absolutely right that the Government do everything as they exist at the moment. they can to promote innovation, which has been the When I worked in City Hall in London, I was responsible single engine for human progress over the past few for the London Development Agency, and I did a whole centuries. Innovation is the single main reason why our range of projects with public procurement. All I can say health and wealth are immeasurably better than they is that the only people who think that public procurement were in generations past. Cambridge, my city, is the rules do not strangle innovation are people who do not capital of innovation in the UK and, indeed, in Europe— have direct experience of them. It is absolutely right that perhaps in the world. It has had many successes, which ARIA is exempted from the worst parts of those rules. have been referred to by a lot of colleagues—it is the global headquarters of AstraZeneca and it has had Thirdly, picking up on value for money, which some more Nobel prize winners than almost any country in Opposition Members mentioned, it is absolutely right the world. that the Treasury and the Government ensure value for money from public investments across the piece. The One strange feature of innovation is that people often Treasury Green Book does that, but it is also right that cannot tell where it will lead to when they are doing it. the Government have a portfolio approach, like a private Togive one topical example,when the Cambridge researcher investor. They might have some lower risk investments Francis Crick was decoding DNA, he had no idea that in Treasury bonds and then some higher risk investments more than half a century later, it would lead to the in venture capital, and they are not all judged by the Wellcome Sanger Institute in my constituency doing same rules. We absolutely should not judge ARIA by more decoding and genome sequencing of the coronavirus the same blanket value-for-money rules as we would if than the rest of the world put together, helping us to we were building a bridge. That would strangle ARIA. track and tackle this pandemic. The Government do a huge amount to promote Fourthly, it is absolutely right, as a couple of Members innovation already, and we have heard a lot about it this have touched on, that ARIA has multi-annual budgets afternoon, so why do we need another agency? Why do inasmuch as the Government and the Treasury can we need ARIA? ARIA will help tackle one of the main allow. Funding disruptive research often takes many obstacles of innovation in the public sector, which is that years, and simply giving a drip-drip of funding one year in the public sector, as compared with the private sector, at a time will mean a lot of disruptive technologies the costs of failure are higher and the rewards for cannot take flight. success are lower. What do I mean by that? In the public When I was chair of the Government’s Regulatory sector, if somebody fails, they get pilloried in the press Policy Committee, I remember civil servants at the and they get the Opposition after them. Ministers have Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy to resign and civil servants lose their job. That does not saying to me sagely, “Governments have always set up happen in the private sector.In the public sector,if someone organisations as independent, and then the politicians does something that succeeds massively, they do not get realise all the problems of independence and then chip bonuses. They are not rewarded by an increase in profits away at the independence over coming years, and the and share prices. The incentives are less. organisations gradually get brought down to heel.” It is What we need to do with ARIA is reduce the costs of very important that does not happen to ARIA, otherwise failure, and that is why it is so important to have a it will lose the reason for its existence. We have heard separate, stand-alone organisation that is not part of Opposition Members in particular talk about the need UKRI—one that has a culture of taking risks and for FOI requests, for procurement rules, for mission knows that sometimes it is worth having failure. Indeed, statements and value for money assessments. I ask the if there are not occasional failures, it is not really Minister and the Government not to listen to those succeeding in its objective of disrupting and taking siren calls, which will clip ARIA’s wings at birth, and it risks. will then never take flight. It is important—I urge the Minister to do this—that Finally, I just want to settle one little discussion or we help ARIA get more of the rewards for success. Several dispute that we have had this afternoon. Many of my of my hon. Friends touched on this point earlier. ARIA hon. Friends have been making bids for the location is able to commercialise and go into business, but let it of ARIA; we have heard about Bristol, Bolton, keep some of the rewards from success, if those projects Sedgefield, Doncaster and Guildford. I can sort this for succeed. That would be a huge incentive for it to try to the Government. Put the innovation agency where the make sure that those things work. innovators are: Cambridge—done. I have four general points about ARIA. The first is that it must be additional to other forms of research Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): and development. If it is just funding projects that get Doncaster. funded by UKRI already, it is not really doing what it should be. Secondly, it is very important that it can 5.34 pm experiment to try out different forms of funding. It has to be able to do a whole range of different types of Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield) (Con) [V]: I funding for different projects as it sees fit, and it should enthusiastically welcome the Bill, which not only fulfils be flexible in doing that. For example, we can have a a manifesto pledge made in 2019 but is the first step in company or academics doing some sort of research that demonstrating that the United Kingdom is an innovative we think is disruptive and amazingly good, but it does superpower in the post-covid world. A high-risk, high-payoff 877 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 878 Agency Bill Agency Bill research organisation has the potential to provide 5.39 pm groundbreaking innovations with military and civilian applications. Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con) [V]: This country is steeped in science and invention, so it is fitting that Examining and utilising the United States Defence the Bill paves the way to create an agency that will lead Advanced Research Projects Agency model in creating to who knows what UK discoveries and innovation. ARIA will be critical. I am encouraged that the explanatory notes to the Bill emphasise a desire to do exactly that, Members might not think that my constituency would but in examining DARPA and why it has been such a be home to some of the most famous British inventions success, one must look beyond its organisational structure. we have ever heard of, but they would be wrong. Christopher The flat management structure, sense of mission, minimal Cockerell, who was at Gresham’sSchool in my constituency, bureaucracy and streamlined process of project approval began with a prototype using a vacuum cleaner, a cat are all vital to DARPA’s success, but a number of other food tin and a coffee jar. He tested his invention on vital factors must be considered. DARPA’s success has Oulton Broad in the 1950s, before it became the hovercraft, also stemmed from the culture it has fostered and the which saw its first commercial crossing of the channel connections it maintains with industries and academia. in 1959. Perhaps one of the most famous inventors this Project managers are recruited on a temporary basis country has ever produced grew up in North Norfolk from a permanent position in the academic or industrial and retains a close affinity with my constituency. He research community and given tremendous autonomy invented the ballbarrow, before inventing the dual cyclone in their duties. vacuum cleaner. We all know him today as one of our greatest living inventors, Sir James Dyson. DARPA has spent more than 50 years nurturing links What those two people have in common, apart from with academia and industry, and attempting to replicate their connections to North Norfolk, is that they failed a them hastily in the UK may threaten ARIA’s success. I great number of times until they created the inventions appreciate that Her Majesty’s Government wish to have we know today. That is exactly what is so special about ARIA fully operational by 2022. Erica Fuchs’s article the Advanced Research and Invention Agency—that it “Cloning DARPA Successfully” notes the risk of haste, will cut the red tape and bureaucracy and enable creativity and I strongly recommend that any of my colleagues and talent to take the risks that failure so often curtails who are interested in ARIA read all the arguments that before people are ever allowed the chance to succeed. Fuchs makes. With £800 million behind it, and the freedom to explore, Those sceptical of the importance of DARPA’s model ARIA is the launchpad that could so effectively uncover should just examine its successes. The internet, GPS, the next leading and pioneering inventor. video-conferencing and the F-117 fighter-bomber—the We are a scientific superpower. If anyone has any first aircraft to be designed around stealth technology—are doubt about that, or about what we are capable of, they all projects based on funding by DARPA. The Intelligence need only look at what we have achieved in this great Advanced Research Projects Activity within the Office nation in the last year, with the University of Oxford of the Director of National Intelligence and the Advanced developing the coronavirus jab. That encapsulates why Research Projects Agency-Energy both have a similar we should invest in science and pour money into such model, focusing on high-risk, high-reward in their relevant transformative research, which I have no doubt will be areas. necessary again in our lifetimes. Free from the political union with Europe, the Government made the right Her Majesty’s Government look to provide ARIA choice. We sought our own vaccination strategy, and we with initial funding of £800 million until the end of this backed our scientists with millions of pounds to develop Parliament. But if we truly wish to make ARIA a the vaccine as quickly as possible. Long-term research resounding success, increasing funding, so that more investment also helped, and that is exactly what this innovative projects can be pursued, will be critical. new fund will provide. Oxford scientists had already DARPA had an annual budget of $3.427 billion, allowing been researching a vaccine that could be used against a for groundbreaking innovations to be achieved. I notice disease such as covid-19. That research investment, that a number of Opposition Members accuse ARIA of which stretched back years, and the willingness to invest being a waste of money. Projects may well fail, and have added to the situation we find ourselves in today. funding may be turned off, but that should be expected. We cannot expect to make significant gains without Sometimes in life, we have to take a little risk if we there being high risks. I also note that some have raised want to deliver rewards worth fighting for. Those who concerns regarding ARIA’s exemption from freedom of want to dismiss the Bill should think a little harder. information requests. By doing so, we will reduce the They worry about the immaterial detail rather than the administrative requirements on ARIA, ensuring that it overriding thrust of the Bill, but they have to look back is as flexible and agile as possible. Without normalising and they have to think, what could be? We should the idea of failure, ARIA will not be able to drive remember what one of the greatest entrepreneurs and forward change in how we conduct research and innovation. inventors of the last 20 years said—a lot of my colleagues have spoken about disrupters, and this person was In tandem with establishing ARIA, Her Majesty’s certainly just that: Government have championed research and development, committing to spend 2.4% of our GDP on R&D by “The people who are crazy enough to think they can change 2027 to ensure that we remain a leader in science and the world are the ones who do.” innovation. The Bill is vital in establishing the United That was Steve Jobs. This Bill is essential to support the Kingdom as a nucleus of innovation, but if ARIA is to efforts of UK people like that and to develop the triumph, we must learn from why DARPA is such a entrepreneurs, scientists and researchers of the future. I success and how we can adopt its practices. warmly support the Secretary of State in all his efforts. 879 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 880 Agency Bill Agency Bill 5.44 pm In November 2020, the spending review set out the David Johnston (Wantage) (Con) [V]: I am privileged Government’s plan to invest £14.6 billion in R and D in to have lots of world-class science in my constituency, 2021-22 at 2.4% of GDP. That got me thinking and it not least at Harwell campus, which used to be hidden got the juices flowing. One thing that struck me most from maps when it was doing what it about this Government is their appetite for the future: was with atomic energy, but is now very much on the they plan, they set targets and they invest. They have map of the world’s leading scientific research and ambition. They support opportunity. We can name it development centres in the world. I warmly support what and it is there: electrification, infrastructure, and emissions. Government do in this area, not least the £800 million We were the first western nation in the world to specify that it will put into ARIA, which fulfils another manifesto a carbon neutral target. It is not about plans for the commitment and takes us further along the route to next five years, but about the next generation and 2.4% of GDP going on research and development. over-the-horizon planning, which is really important. When I was reading through the various briefings on The Bill has everything. It is about performing or the Bill, most of what I wanted to say came under three commissioning others to conduct scientific research, As. The first A is ambition. I hugely welcome the developing and exploiting, and autonomy. It provides Government’s ambition to invest more in R and D; financial freedom for those willing to take the risk. It their ambition to get better at commercialising the allows early decisions to be taken, it contributes to world-class research that we develop; and their ambition economic growth, it promotes innovation and it improves to have our version—not the same—of DARPA, which quality of life in the UK because this is about the has been so vital to the US and the world with its future, and the future is really important. It also gives contribution to things from GPS to the internet. the freedom to fail, which for any innovator is really significant. Backed by £800 million of Government The second A is autonomy. It is hugely important investment, the Bill complements the work that UK that we are to give autonomy to programme managers, Research and Innovation and the R and D road map and not to have Ministers direct them as to what they already set in concrete. It is really exciting and I commend should research and what they should fund. Let us hire it strongly to the House. great people and let them do what has made them great. Let them get on with the things that they are successful The Government have made no secret of their wish in, and not ask them to conform to a particular type of for the UK to become the innovation powerhouse of what we are used to dealing with. the world. The Bill is about maintaining and enhancing The third A is acceptance: acceptance of the need to our competitive advantage. It is about synergy between do things differently; acceptance of a greater risk; and public and private research. We can foster a better acceptance of failure. There is not enough of that in collaborative environment, with commercial and state Government. That naturally leads us on to the various investment coming together. ARIA’s funding will be exemptions that ARIA will have, which I fully support. absolutely pivotal, and I welcome it. It is right that it is exempt from the traditional bureaucracy Before I sum up, I want to say that outside London, that comes with Government funding. It is right that we the Thames valley really is the economic powerhouse of exempt it from public procurement regulations. It is the south-east, and Bracknell, my constituency, is the right that we exempt it from FOI. I know that FOI has silicon valley of the Thames valley. With neighbouring probably had more attention than other things. We can Slough having the highest concentration outside London make a case that FOI has all sorts of benefits, but one of UK headquarters of global companies, and the benefit that we cannot claim that it has is encouraging offices of 150 international companies in Bracknell, the people to take risk, because, on the contrary, what it Thames valley is absolutely ready to welcome employers does is encourage people to be risk averse. They may and innovators to our area. Look at what we already worry that people will go through with a hindsight ruler have, though: the UK head office of Boehringer Ingelheim, and decide that they should not have done the things Daler-Rowney, Honda, 3M, Dell, Waitrose, Fujitsu, that they did. Panasonic—the list goes on. It is a fantastic place to do I smile to myself when people, whom I hugely respect, business and I urge any CEO or director watching the start by saying that they support the Government in debate to bring their business to Bracknell. It is a great wanting to do things differently with ARIA, but then place to be. come up with a list that is about doing things in the same We often forget just how important innovation is to way that we have always done—how we fund, what rules the UK and across the world. Fittingly, given current it is subject to, and putting it under the umbrella of circumstances, we should recall Edward Jenner, who UKRI. The more that we do that, the further we will created the world’s first vaccine back in 1796. In 1930, get away from the purpose of this. Ambition, autonomy Sir Frank Whittle patented the jet engine. More recently, and acceptance of greater risk are exactly what the in 1990, in the most important step forward in global Government should be doing more of. It will help us communications,Sir Tim Berners-Lee created the worldwide both retain our own talent and continue to attract more web. What is yet to come? What else is out there? What talent from around the world. While we do not yet know do we not yet know? The Bill certainly paves the way. To what ARIA will create, I am very confident that we will summarise in three simple words: bring it on. look back and feel very pleased that we created it. 5.48 pm 5.52 pm James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con): It is a great Andy Carter (Warrington South) (Con): It is a pleasure privilege to speak in this important debate and to be to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell part of an ever decreasing group of diehards from the (James Sunderland). We have heard about Bracknell; I new intake. will tell the House about the wonders of Warrington. 881 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 882 Agency Bill Agency Bill We in the UK have a proud history of scientific regions containing only 20% of the population. In excellence and innovation. From the early theorists, 2018, London and the south-east received almost 50% of such as Sir Isaac Newton and Charles Darwin, to the Government and UKRI’s total R&D spending. The major scientific discoveries of hydrogen by Henry Cavendish Nesta report estimates that the regions outside London and penicillin by Alexander Fleming, and of course and the south-east have missed out on Government R&D Oxford University’s coronavirus vaccine, we have made funding of about £4 billion each year, which could have huge contributions to science both past and present, so leveraged a further £8 billion from the private sector. I warmly welcome the plans that the Secretary of State For ARIA to achieve its transformational change, it set out today to support and encourage our next generation must work closely with industry partners. The north-west of pioneering inventors and innovators, backed by this of England receives private investment in R&D at three new independent research funder. times the rate of public investment. Industry recognises By funding high-risk, high-reward scientific research, the opportunity available in my region, and ARIA is an ARIA will give visionary scientists the support and opportunity to add extra drive and open up more freedom to identify and fund transformational science opportunities in constituencies such as Warrington, and technology at speed. Our brilliant scientists have where jobs and livelihoods are already supported and led the way in the development of the coronavirus sustained by the thriving Cheshire life science corridor. vaccine and our high-risk strategy has shown the world We are already seeing northern universities collaborate what can be achieved when academia and private and through the Northern Health Science Alliance, N8 and public investment are brought together. ARIA will allow the introduction of Northern Gritstone. We just need to the UK to make good on its Government’s ambitions as give them the financial backing and the freedom to a global scientific superpower and allow us to contribute make this happen. I very much welcome the plans set to Build Back Better through innovation. The agency out today and look forward to supporting the Bill later. will be able to operate flexibly and quickly,better supporting the UK’s most pioneering researchers and, importantly, 5.57 pm avoiding unnecessary bureaucracy. By stripping back the red tape and putting power in the hands of innovators, Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): It is a ARIA will drive forward the technologies of tomorrow. pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for While there is definitely space in the UK’s research Warrington South (Andy Carter), and a particular pleasure landscape for a new funding agency that supports that to do so in person. He and I have been hanging around sort of risk and investment, it should be designed in a the same Zoom waiting rooms for much of the winter, way that complements the wider system of funding and it is nice to be back in the Chamber. streams that already exist. Will the Minister set out As my hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and clearly how the new agency will complement the existing South Downs (Andrew Griffith) said at the beginning bodies? of his speech, today is the national day of reflection as I want to see funding distributed across our prime we look back over the past year and remember our science capabilities in the north of England. The Daresbury collective loss and, for many people, including my hon. laboratory sits on my constituency doorstep, so towns Friend, our personal losses, but also look forward to a such as Warrington, perfectly located midway between brighter future. That brighter future is because of science. the two great northern cities of and Manchester, In the past year, it has been a privilege to serve on the could really benefit from such investment, allowing the Select Committee on Science and Technology, together high-tech sectors that develop there to be rocket-powered. with the Chair, my right hon. Friend the Member for I am sure that the hon. Member for Weaver Vale Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), who spoke earlier, and (Mike Amesbury) will not mind my plugging the other Members who have spoken in the debate—my hon. opportunities further to bolster the Daresbury campus, Friends the Members for Bolton North East (Mark Logan) which is recognised as the north’s centre of excellence and for Arundel and South Downs, and the hon. Member for innovation in high-tech business from start-ups to for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan). I praise multinationals across all kinds of sectors and research the Clerks of the Committee for all the work they have disciplines, including the growth challenge areas of done. We have had a number of sessions on covid at healthcare, energy, environment and security. very short notice and have also considered ARIA—or As the Minister will know, the Cockcroft Institute ARPA as we knew it at the time, and I have in my hand and its particle accelerator research already has a home our report which was published on 12 February. at Daresbury, and I know there are spaces there for a Looking at the past year and the work that the few more new ideas. Warrington is also well known as Science and Technology Committee has done, there is a the research centre for the nuclear sector, and building real read-across from what happened with covid to on that campus at Daresbury and encouraging collaboration ARIA. As I said in my intervention on the Secretary of between the brightest minds and those that are already State, at its best ARIA will learn from what we have in the north-west means we have an opportunity to level done on covid in the past year. If covid has a silver up through the programme. Life sciences make up an lining, it is what it has enabled us to do in the science integral part of the north’seconomic ecosystem, generating sphere, allowing us to throw off some of the shackles £7.5 billion annually for UK, but the north has historically related to funding, innovation and things such as mRNA been underfunded for research and ARIA offers a great vaccines. opportunity to narrow that divide. The Government have not exactly followed the A report published just last week shows that in the past Committee’s recommendations, and that is fair enough, 10 years, 72% of additional jobs created in the 10 most but the Secretary of State was very forthcoming when R&D intensive industries were located in the regions he gave evidence to us last week about the reasons for covering London, Oxford and Cambridge, despite those that. As my right hon. Friend the Chair said, it is easy 883 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 884 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Aaron Bell] ARIA is a great idea. Like many of its would-be projects, it has the potential to be bold and transformative to dissipate £800 million. I know that it sounds like a lot itself. But it also has the potential to fail, or at least not of money, but in the context of our overall science to work for as long as we might hope. I welcome the budget it is not quite all that much. The Committee 10 years that we have set out in the Bill to give it a recommended that there be a client, but if there is not to chance to work. Many iconoclastic structures end up be one, it is important that there is focus. If we are going being captured and overrun by bureaucracy; we must be to have focus, the leadership of ARIA will be key. I really careful in that regard. As the Bill progresses hope that our Committee can be involved. There has through this House and the other place, I hope that the not been an Order in Council because ARIA does not Government will be very firm in resisting all those who yet exist, so there is no pre-appointment hearing, but I would strangle it at birth. hope that our Committee can speak with the prospective chair and chief exec of ARIA. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I Let me turn to some of the detail. I am pleased to see call the final Back-Bench speaker, Richard Holden. the range of innovative funding envisaged for ARIA, particularly through prizes, which can leverage huge 6.2 pm amounts of private sector investment. We have this Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con) [V]: target of 2.4% of GDP for R&D. It is all very well Some places save the best until last, but I am afraid that spending more Government money, but the key is getting the House of Commons just saves the Member for more private sector investment to get us to that 2.4% target. North West Durham. Any ways that we can leverage private sector investment through ARIA would be hugely welcome. We are also It is an honour to follow my hon. Friend the Member looking into grant-prize hybrids, seed grants for very for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Aaron Bell) and many hon. early stage developers and equity stakes. As many hon. Members from across the country who have been so Members have said, including my hon. Friend the Member positive about the Bill. I speak in support of the Bill, for North East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller), we need because through it we will create the Advanced Research to be better at capturing the commercial benefit of the and Invention Agency. Britain can finally back the world-class science that takes place in this country, and sparks of creativity that flicker in the dark space—too perhaps equity stakes through ARIA can be a part of often infrequently sampled by our existing scientific that. research institutions ARIA will enable us to press forward on the global Our Committee took evidence from a number of stage at the cutting edge of innovative scientific research, organisations in our inquiry into what has now become and to maximise the opportunities that science can ARIA. We heard from organisations that had worked bring to the benefit of my constituents in North West well, such as DARPA, and some that had not worked quite Durham, to our United Kingdom and to humanity. A so well. I wonder whether the sense of crisis to which I few months ago, those words may have perhaps sounded referred earlier is necessary for these sorts of things to hyperbolic, but, as many hon. and right hon. Members work. In world war two, the Manhattan project obviously have mentioned, the United Kingdom’s world-leading led to the atomic bomb. The cold war led to DARPA vaccine programme has changed all that. Moreover, and the need for the United States to secure its own Madam Deputy Speaker, the ability I am afforded defence. What we have seen in the last year with covid today to speak to you virtually in our historic House of has led to so many innovations in vaccines, therapeutics Commons Chamber from my constituency office in and beyond that will last well beyond this period; as was Consett through the use of the internet is a product of said earlier, these innovations may ultimately save more innovation in digital —innovation lives than have been lost, because of the speed of their backed in its inception by the United States in a nimble, development. non-bureaucratic institution called the Defence Advanced If ARIA is to work well, it needs somehow to harness Research Projects Agency. As many hon. Members have that sense of crisis, and the breakthrough, breakneck noted, by backing a few brilliant minds with a modest response to crisis and existential threat. It needs the sum, that institution helped to develop and pioneer space to do so, autonomy from the Government and the technologies such as the internet and GPS—innovations freedom to fail. Science often learns more from what that have since generated trillions in pounds wealth, does not work than what does. and, on the human level, kept the lonely connected Before I draw my remarks to a conclusion, it would throughout the pandemic. On a personal note, it allowed be remiss of me not to make my own pitch. Keele me to see my own grandmother in the weeks before she University in the wonderful constituency of Newcastle- died—something that just a few years ago in similar under-Lyme is a fabulous university. It is a university circumstances would have been impossible. enterprise zone and part of the Energy Research The scientific research institutions we have today Accelerator, which links up multiple universities and include UKRI, which incorporates our seven research private sector organisations across the west midlands. councils. It backs bidders from business and academia We also have a fabulous science and innovation park. to identify important societal and industrial challenges We are a proud host of Cobra Biologics, one of the faced by the UK that might merit financial support manufacturers of the amazing Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine from the industrial strategy challenge fund. It sets its that is doing so much good in this country. It is not assessment against aims set out by the Government to doing so much good elsewhere because of some rather raise long term productivity and improve living standards. foolish remarks by regulators, but we are very proud of This has, for example, aided the development of batteries our vaccine; if other countries do not want it, we will for electric vehicles, which has no doubt helped companies have it. such as Nissan, one of the largest employers of my 885 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 886 Agency Bill Agency Bill constituents. It has helped to transform food production, of science and support for our scientists. I thank all backed clean growth, advanced artificial intelligence hon. Members who have spoken so constructively on and big data, and assisted in projects aimed at tackling both sides, even if I cannot do justice to every contribution. our ageing society. As the shadow Secretary of State emphasised, it is vital Combined with the largest ever increase in funding—over that we get the Advanced Research and Invention Agency £22 billion—for UK research and development announced right. As many hon. Members have observed, the UK by any Government, one might ask, “What’s wrong, has a proud tradition in science, engineering, innovation, then?” Well, like many similar institutions in comparable research and development; it is renowned across the nations to ours, UKRI is rigged to the academic calendar. world. The Secretary of State mentioned the discovery It naturally focuses on papers with “sound” cases, it is of penicillin. The hon. Member for Havant (Alan Mak) tethered to burdensome bureaucracy, it is slow off the referred to the spinning Jenny and Stephenson’s Rocket. mark, and unfortunately it is, far too often, too risk adverse. As a chartered engineer from Newcastle, I particularly If the men and women who kicked off the industrial appreciated the last example, and I would add to it the revolution in constituencies like mine had been as risk steam turbine, invented on the Tyne by Parsons. It made averse, I wonder if it would ever have happened—whether cheap and plentiful electricity possible, revolutionised the sparks that ignited the first industrial revolution marine transport and powered our Navy. and literally forged a new world in constituencies like Again and again, UK science has pushed back the mine would ever have come to pass. boundaries of knowledge, shrinking the vast expanses As we look to the fourth industrial revolution, that of ignorance which, as the pandemic has shown, may risk-averse situation is what we are facing today. A threaten humanity’s very existence. And science is a key constituent of mine, Professor Pal Badyal of Durham economic driver. Our university research base alone University’s chemistry department, who is a member of contributes £95 billion to the economy, supporting nearly the Royal Society, has founded three successful start-up 1 million jobs in science institutes, charities and businesses businesses and is one of the leading scientists in his of all sizes. Research by Oxford Economics commissioned field, has struggled to gain funding for his research into by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial antiviral surfaces, despite successful preliminary proof Strategy found that each £1 of public research and of concepts funded by Durham University.This professor development stimulates between £1.96 and £2.34 of previously invented the waterproof coating for smartphones. private research and development in the long run, and That idea was turned down by UKRI for being “out of together they help address the key challenges facing scope”, only to be subsequently adopted by industry an humanity, from climate change to inequality, from entire 10 years later. This waterproofing technology can pandemics to productivity. As my right hon. Friend the now be found on over 1 billion smartphones worldwide. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) said, There exist in the world many such sparks of creativity Labour recognises that the UK needs new mechanisms in science and other fields that fizzle out, out there in to support high-risk/high-reward research. As such, the dark space. Far too infrequently are they nurtured ARIA is a step in the right direction. The United States by our existing scientific research institutions. In the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency programme, case of Professor Badyal, his first spark came to light which the Secretary of State cites many times in his 10 years later through industry, but his latest, on antiviral statement of policy intent, has helped give us inventions surfaces, could save lives today and tomorrow. We cannot from the internet to Siri, from cyborg insects to GPS afford to miss out on such innovation. technology. This Bill creates ARIA, which can operate at pace, Of course we want Britain to back similar high-risk/ undertake groundbreaking research and back our scientists high-reward research that unlocks the full potential of with its high tolerance for risk of failure. Decisively our scientific creativity.But there are concerns—concerns different, with less bureaucracy, ARIA has the power to shared across the House. Many Members highlighted launch dynamism supported but unfettered by the usual the lack of direction for ARIA. The Secretary of State constraints of government. Clearly,as many Members have claimed that the Bill equips ARIA with the “tools and said, the role our scientists have played in jabbing our way freedoms that it needs”. By implication, then, it doesn’t to freedom throughout this pandemic, the spirit they need a mission. But the renowned economist Professor have showcased in innovating the Oxford vaccine at Mariana Mazzucato has said: pace, the generosity shown through their decision to do so at cost price, and the early backing with generous “ARIA should be oriented around societal challenges with funds from our Government has afforded Britain a broad buy-in that define the 21st century and can just as effectively stimulate cross-disciplinary innovation, for example climate change”. leading role in freeing the world from the coronavirus pandemic. Spirit, pace, backing and benefit: that makes The Institute of Physics has said that a clear mission is the case for ARIA and this Bill better than any words “essential” and the Chair of the Science and Technology any Member could hope to say.I urge hon. Members across Committee raised concerns about ARIA’s lack of “focus this House to support the Bill and to back those sparks and purpose”. Setting a mission would bring together of innovation that can benefit my constituents in North business, Government and the wider public in support West Durham, help us to level up the north of England, of ARIA. This Bill seems more designed to set it adrift. turbocharge our United Kingdom, and benefit the world. We heard from Government Members best described as the disciples of Dominic Cummings. The former 6.9 pm adviser to the Prime Minister said that the UK was in Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab) need of a blue skies thinking agency. But can I gently [V]: It is a real pleasure to respond to today’s debate, suggest that we should not test Mr Cummings’ideological which has in many ways shown this virtual House at its eyesight by driving to a scientific Bishop Auckland best, united by cross-party consensus on the importance without a credible mission—not with public money 887 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 888 Agency Bill Agency Bill [Chi Onwurah] deny the prospect of £1 billion-worth of cuts to next year’s science budget. He must stand up for science in at least. On the “Today” programme this morning, the his negotiations with the Treasury. I am sure I am not Secretary of State for Health said that the vaccine the only one to be somewhat dismayed by the languid programme tone, during his short opening remarks, in which he said “will be a model of how Governments can make things happen that discussions were ongoing. and move fast and deliver for their population”. The Government have also failed to support medical But not, it would seem, when it comes to scientific research charities. They have failed to support early career research. The vaccine programme definitely had a mission. researchers and doctoral students during the pandemic. The Government like to talk up research, but their actions Leadership in any organisation is critical, but ARIA do not match their words. My right hon. Friend the seems entirely dependent on its CEO and chair, with Member for Doncaster North asked how ARIA would little external accountability or ministerial direction. work with existing bodies, given the lack of clarity on Hon. Members, including the hon. Members for North its mission. I am concerned that it may end up competing East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller) and for Richmond for existing funding rather than leveraging in new funds. Park (Sarah Olney), highlighted some of the concerns That is a criticism levelled against some catapults. this raises, including the potential for crony and vanity projects. I would like to add two points. First, however It is also interesting that the worked example in the great the initial CEO and chair are, they will move on. statement of policy intent from the Secretary of State What then? Secondly, science is a collective endeavour— uses—I think that is the most appropriate term—a perhaps one of the greatest collective endeavours—yet female programme manager. Women are hugely under- the Government seem to believe that by recruiting one represented in science research. They make up just or two star performers, ARIA can transform our science 15% of the principal investigators applying for Engineering landscape. We need to build an institution that furthers and Physical Sciences Research Council grants,for example. our societal aims for decades to come. I am sure the Minister would agree that this lack of representation holds science back, and I hope she will The Secretary of State tried to present freedom of tell us how ARIA will help to address that and the other information as an obstacle to the UK being a science fundamental disparities in science. superpower, but he also said that ARIA was inspired by Labour wants ARIA to be a success, and we support DARPA in the US, which is subject to freedom of its creation. We believe that science is an engine of information. We are concerned that this Government progress and that ARIA can accelerate it, but we also are driven more by an ideological disdain for scrutiny believe that it must have a clear mission to address our than by a desire to further UK science. The Campaign great societal challenges and that it must be accountable. for Freedom of Information shares our concerns, fearing It is not as if there is a lack of challenges for it to that without public accountability, ARIA will lack the address. Indeed, they are many, but without direction weighty public interest needed to support its mission. from the Government, the agency risks losing its way. I also want to add a word of warning here, echoing We are determined to amend the Bill to empower ARIA the words of many Members today including the Chair to succeed, and I look forward to working with Members of the Select Committee, the right hon. Member for across the House to achieve that. Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), and the chair of the Parliamentary and Scientific Committee, the hon. Member 6.19 pm for South Basildon and East Thurrock (Stephen Metcalfe). The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Let us not kid ourselves: high risk means failure. There Energy and Industrial Strategy (Amanda Solloway): I, will be failures—high-profile, expensive failures with too, want to go, “Yay!”, because this has been an public money. Is the CEO expected to weather that absolute pleasure. As the hon. Member for Newcastle storm without ministerial accountability? Is it the upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) said, we have seen Government’s intention to be able to throw ARIA to the House at its best, and it is a great pleasure to take the wolves and keep Ministers safe? part in the debate. I listened to the fantastic contributions, The creation of ARIA must not serve as a distraction and I thank all hon. Members for their thought-provoking from the UK’s wider research and development input. Without exception, the debate indicates how challenges. My hon. Friends the Members for Cambridge essential and central science is to our economy and (Daniel Zeichner) and for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) society. That has been recognised across the House, so I both emphasised the lack of certainty and ambition on shall expand on how ARIA will build on the strengths science funding now, and they both represent great of our R&D system. science communities. The Government are reportedly The proposal to create the Advanced Research and on course to miss their target of spending 2.4% of GDP Invention Agency—ARIA—has been welcomed by leading on R&D by 2027 following cuts to overseas research, scientists, institutions, businesses and colleagues today.We which the vice-chancellor of Newcastle University, Chris have listened to agencies around the world, and consulted Day, tells me may lead to immediate redundancies in the research community at home. The hon. Member for the north-east. Labour is committed to raising the Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) asked about that. We proportion of GDP spent on R&D to 3%, and for this have, of course, considered carefully the recommendations Government to fail to reach their target of 2.4% would of the Science and Technology Committee, brilliantly be shocking indeed. chaired by my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Further, and even more astonishingly, just two weeks Wells (Greg Clark). I am confident that this is a bold, before the new financial year, the scientific community brave and positive step towards our ambition to cement still does not know what funding is to be allocated for the UK’s position as a science superpower. One of the science. Just this morning, the Secretary of State did not things that we must be clear about is the way in which 889 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 Advanced Research and Invention 890 Agency Bill Agency Bill ARIA fits into the wider landscape and what it will national security and to introduce additional procedures achieve. My right hon. Friend and the hon. Member for to measure conflicts of interest. They sit alongside Newcastle upon Tyne Central asked how we would powers to make non-executive appointments to the define ARIA’s purpose, so let me set that out. board, which will of course include the Government ARIA will fund high-risk, high-reward research in a chief scientific adviser in an ex officio role.The arrangements different way from UKRI and the rest of the system. As are robust. my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire The right hon. Member for Doncaster North and the (Richard Fuller) highlighted in his excellent contribution, hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray)—whose ARIA will give us something genuinely different, drawing final speech was commendable; I wish him the very on the UK’s existing R&D strengths. In that way, it will best—raised the Freedom of Information Act. ARIA reach fantastic people with brilliant ideas who are not will have a very small number of staff, and because of currently funded. the load that FOI requests would place on the organisation There have been several questions about funding, but we do not think they are the right way to provide I think that the Secretary of State made the position scrutiny. I remind Members that the Departments and clear. The right hon. Member for Doncaster North public authorities that work with ARIA will of course (Edward Miliband), my right hon. Friend the Member be subject to FOI requests. There will be other statutory for Tunbridge Wells, my hon. Friend the Member for commitments to transparency. The Bill makes it clear Havant (Alan Mak), and the hon. Member for Glasgow that ARIA will be required to produce an annual report North West (Carol Monaghan) raised ARIA’s mission on what it does, which will be laid before Parliament and what it should focus on. That is an important issue, alongside its accounts. and I have listened to the different views with great interest. The hon. Members for Aberdeen South and for Airdrie Climate change has been suggested. The Government and Shotts also spoke about procurement. The Bill continue to invest in net zero, including through the exempts ARIA from the obligations on a contracting £1 billion net-zero innovation portfolio fund announced authority in the public contract regulations,but procurement as part of the Prime Minister’s 10-point plan. I should decisions will be taken by ARIA, not by Ministers. It is make it clear that ARIA’s programme will be motivated because it is one step removed from Government that by a single clear ambition set by the programme manager. the exemption will empower ARIA’s talented programme However, those decisions will be made by ARIA, and managers and directors. Again, the freedom to act ARIA’s leaders will be responsible for strategic oversight quickly will be balanced by the requirement for ARIA of their programme portfolio. They will be able to to audit its procurement activities, as set out with the speak to researchers, other funders and Government Department in the framework document. Departments to help to inform their judgment. There The hon. Members for Cambridge and for Airdrie are UK funding programmes for which Ministers set and Shotts, my hon. Friends the Members for Bolton the strategic direction, and ARIA has been set up North East (Mark Logan) and for Bolton West (Chris specifically without those constraints. Green), and many other Members made representations The hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner) on ARIA’s location. I recognise that they care passionately and my hon. Friend the Member for Rugby (Mark Pawsey) about the scientific excellence found in all parts of asked about the need for ARIA to have a specific Bolton, Cambridge, Airdrie and, of course, right across customer. ARIA’s groundbreaking work will absolutely the UK, but ARIA will be run by a small number of draw partners for its projects and programmes, but we people and will have a small physical presence, and the want to leave the door open for it to be able to forge potential candidates to be its CEO and chair will have a those relationships across a range of sectors. strong interest in the location of the headquarters. I The hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn), cannot commit to a specific location at this stage, but if the hon. Member for Richmond Park and my hon. ARIA is to deliver UK-wide economic benefits, it should, Friend the Member for Rugby asked about recruitment like UKRI, function and deliver on a UK-wide basis. and ARIA’s culture. I recognise how crucial that that Stakeholders in the devolved nations—such as Universities will be for ARIA, which is why we will recruit a CEO to Scotland—have been clear in their support for that provide the creative, inspiring leadership that the approach. organisation needs—someone uniquely able to build a Let me finish by thanking Members from all parties team of high-performing people. That will not be on a for their rich and considered contributions. My door is whim. We will conduct a genuinely open and fair always open and I invite any Members who wish to recruitment process for a CEO and chair. discuss the Bill with me further to do so. We must The hon. Members for Aberdeen South and for Glasgow remember that the United Kingdom is a hotbed of North West asked about the oversight that Government brilliant invention and innovation. The Secretary of will have. The hon. Member for Midlothian State spoke about our proud history of scientific excellence, (Owen Thompson) queried the way in which we will which I am confident the creation of ARIA will help to hold ARIA to account. They are absolutely right that safeguard far into the future. ARIA will be at a greater distance from central Government In the previous century, the US ARPA funded the than we are used to. That is a deliberate move based on ambitious research that underpins the internet and GPS— international experience. The evidence suggests that technologies that have transformed our lives, opened freedom and autonomy is what makes this kind of countless avenues of inquiry and created extraordinary agency work. I am mindful of the effective governance value. Such successes do not happen overnight or by of ARIA, which is incredibly important, but it must be accident; they all start with a wild ambition that is tailored to ARIA’s objectives if we are to get the balance nurtured into reality against all the odds. It is this right—and it is about balance. There are powers in the ambition that will course through the veins of ARIA’s Bill for the Secretary of State to intervene on issues of staff and the talented researchers they fund. As Science 891 Advanced Research and Invention 23 MARCH 2021 892 Agency Bill [Amanda Solloway] Business without Debate Minister I have listened to many inspiring scientists and inventors, and it is now my ambition to give their DELEGATED LEGISLATION brilliant ideas the best possible chance to profoundly change lives and the lives of our grandchildren—and of Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): With my granddaughter—for the very better. I wait with the leave of the House, we shall take motions 6 to 9 excited anticipation for the remaining stages of the Bill. together. Question put and agreed to. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Bill accordingly read a Second time. Order No. 118(6)),

AGRICULTURE ADVANCED RESEARCH AND INVENTION That the draft Direct Payments to Farmers (Reductions and AGENCY BILL (PROGRAMME) Simplifications) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021, which were laid before this House on 24 February, be approved Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing That the draft Agriculture (Financial Assistance) Regulations Order No. 83A(7)), 2021, which were laid before this House on 1 March, be approved. That the following provisions shall apply to the Advanced Research and Invention Agency Bill: PUBLIC HEALTH Committal That the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Wearing of Face (1) Public Bill Committee shall be committed to a Public Bill Coverings in a Relevant Place and Restrictions: All Tiers) (England) Committee. (Amendment) Regulations 2021 (S.I., 2021, No. 247), dated 5 March Proceedings in Public Bill Committee 2021, a copy of which was laid before this House on 5 March, be (2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as approved. not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Tuesday 27 April 2021. EXTRADITION (3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on That the draft Extradition Act 2003 (Codes of Practice and the first day on which it meets. Transit Code of Practice) Order 2021, which was laid before this Proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading House on 22 February, be approved.—(David Rutley.) (4) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously Question agreed to. concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which proceedings on Consideration are commenced. PETITIONS (5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption Banning of pesticides on that day. (6) Third Reading No. 83B (Programming committees) shall 6.30 pm not apply to proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading. Other proceedings (Dartford) (Con): I would like to (7) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.— present a petition to the House on behalf of the excellent (David Rutley.) Knockhall in my constituency, and specifically year 2, who have been doing some excellent Question agreed to. work on insecticides. The petitioners declare “that consideration could be given to banning harmful pesticides” ADVANCED RESEARCH AND INVENTION because of the dangers they create for bees and other AGENCY BILL (MONEY) pollinators, which are an essential part of our environment and play a crucial role in food production. Queen’s recommendation signified. Following is the full text of the petition Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)), [The petition of a teacher and pupils of Knockhall That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Advanced Primary School, Research and Invention Agency Bill, it is expedient to authorise Declares that consideration could be given to banning the payment out of money provided by Parliament of any expenditure harmful pesticides. incurred under or by virtue of the Act by the Secretary of State.—(David Rutley.) The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urge the Government to consider banning harmful Question agreed to. pesticides. And the petitioners remain, etc.] ADVANCED RESEARCH AND INVENTION [P002652] AGENCY BILL (CARRY-OVER) Gambling premises licences Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 80A(1)(a)), 6.31 pm That if, at the conclusion of this Session of Parliament, proceedings on the Advanced Research and Invention Agency Bill have not Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Southgate) (Lab): I been completed, they shall be resumed in the next Session.— rise to present a petition on behalf of my constituents, (David Rutley.) who were shocked to discover that an application for a Question agreed to. 24-hour gambling licence had been granted for a vacant 893 Business without Debate 23 MARCH 2021 894 shop premises in Green Lanes in my constituency. Due ANPR and Width Restrictions to the fact that publication occurred during the most recent coronavirus period and they were legally permitted Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House to leave their homes only for specific purposes, and that do now adjourn.—(David Rutley.) they did not have a local newspaper, residents did not become aware of the application until it was granted. 6.33 pm The petition states: Dean Russell (Watford) (Con): I wanted to secure this The petition of residents of the constituency of Enfield, Southgate, Adjournment debate because of an issue that originated Declares that the requirement to publish a notice of application in Woodmere Avenue in my constituency but which has for a gambling premises licence in local newspapers and to display highlighted a more national issue associated with section 6 a notice on the premises as required by Section 12 of the Gambling powers under the Traffic Management Act 2004. I feel a Act 2005 (Premises Licence and Provisional Statements) Regulations bit odd, because I have introduced a ten-minute rule Bill 2007 is wholly inadequate for bringing such applications to the today, so, a bit like it is for the Minister, two buses have attention of members of the public and as such is in urgent need of reform; further that no additional provisions were made for arrived at once for me today. This is my second long these requirements to take into account the fact that the public speech, but I will try not to make it too long. were legally required not to venture outside except for certain I wanted to raise this issue for three reasons. First, I specified purposes during coronavirus lockdown restrictions which would like to highlight the issues with Woodmere Avenue disadvantaged their ability to view such notices; and further that in my constituency, the concerns of residents and why gambling premises licences granted during the coronavirus lockdown those are important. My second point is about the use restrictions should be subject to a review. of section 6, which I think could solve some of the The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons issues in my local area, and I will highlight some broader urge the Government to take into account the concerns of the petitioners and take immediate action to ensure that Section 12 of issues. My third point is about the critical importance the Gambling Act 2005 (Premises Licence and Provisional Statements) of the power of local people to have control and a say in Regulations 2007 and other associated legislation is urgently what happens to them in their local area. revised and gambling premises licences granted during the coronavirus I will start with Woodmere Avenue. The issue with lockdown restrictions be subject to a review. Woodmere Avenue began for me when I was campaigning And the petitioners remain, etc. way before I was an MP. I had been out with a local [P002653] campaigner called Carly Bishop, who had petitioned and spoken to local residents about issues in this area. Let me describe the situation. A width restriction has been in Woodmere Avenue in the Tudor ward of Watford for decades, and it is known as a bit of a landmark, but not in a positive way. There is a massive bus route through the middle of the road, and on either side there are width restrictions for cars. Increasingly, I hear people say that they have scratched their car recently or over the past few years on those restrictions. It does not feel right that somebody trying to drive to work in the morning, pick up their kids from school or just go to the shops should be worried about damaging their car en route because of the way that a width restriction was designed many decades ago. The issue, for me, is about fairness. There is a whole debate that could be unpicked about the decisions that were made many years ago, why this has not changed and why petitions have not enabled change, but I do not want to get into a blame game. For me, this is about how we look forward and make a difference. When I was discussing this with local residents and the local council, I found that one potential solution is the use of automatic number plate recognition. It was highlighted that, instead of having rigid physical stops for people to drive through these areas, we could have a camera that recognises cars going through, perhaps with some speed bumps and other less invasive measures to calm traffic, make sure it is safe and slow and reduce the number of wide vehicles. It turns out that the section 6 rules, which the council would love to use to stop certain vehicles doing certain things on roads such as Woodmere Avenue, are not available in Watford—but they are available in London. The section 6 rules actively apply to London but not to the rest of the country, despite the Local Government Association being very supportive of the change. Why is that an issue? First, it is one of fairness. Why should London be able to put in place mechanisms to make 895 ANPR and Width Restrictions23 MARCH 2021 ANPR and Width Restrictions 896

[Dean Russell] those people to have a stronger say in what happens on the road in front of their house? traffic safer that are not allowed outside London? Secondly, Not so long ago, when I was with someone from the if there is a solution out there that is already working, highways department, the council and a local resident, I why should it not be applicable in my constituency for had a conversation with a gentleman who lives near the my constituents? width restriction. He told me that, as someone had gone When I visit Woodmere Avenue—which I do quite through it and it had pinged their car, something had regularly because it is very close to my constituency shot off and gone through the window of his car on his office—I find myself carefully driving through the width drive, causing damage. That does not seem sensible. restrictions, and I see the marks on them that have People who live in these areas live with the repercussions clearly come from cars and vans being scratched over of that day in, day out, yet they do not have more of a the years. While driving through, I sometimes see a say than someone who lives in another part of the driver who does not want to go through the width county. That seems rather bizarre to me. restrictions, so they go straight through the middle Surely, when we look at this in the round, there is an where the bus lane is. The width restrictions are not opportunity here to look at the way we engage with even doing the job that they should, because cars are local communities—the way we do surveys, for example. still breaking the rules, and there is no real comeback, At the moment, if another survey is done, the taxpayer because there is no way to detect it—there is no ANPR will have to pay an awful lot of money for the county and no cameras. Is that fair? No, it is not. council and other groups to go and ask residents things, The people who are scratching their cars are not in a way that we could probably organise on our own by necessarily bad drivers. I have had people say to me, going door to door at the weekend. As the Member of “Perhaps they just don’t know how to drive their car,” Parliament, I even offered to go around and do a but even if someone is not a great driver and is a bit survey, asking people exactly the same question about cautious or wobbly when going through the restrictions, what they would like to be done, but that is not possible, is it fair that they should scratch their car, damage their because a very rigid, bureaucratic, red-tape-driven process vehicle and face the cost of having to go to a garage to has to be followed to get those views. That does not fix it? I do not think so. In addition, I have seen vehicles seem right. have their axles broken, not because the drivers have All I ask the Minister to do today is to address those driven through the restrictions at a particularly fast three points. First, I would really appreciate further pace but because they have slightly misjudged it and the discussion around Woodmere Avenue—an opportunity front wheel has been hit and damaged. to explore the issue and to see whether we can solve it There is a moral issue and a fairness issue, and there for local residents while keeping the road safe, ensuring is the issue of ANPR and the rules being applicable in that large vehicles that should not go down the road do London but not elsewhere. There is also a bigger topic not, and ensuring that people do not speed down there, of the right of individuals to have a say in what happens but in a way that does not risk people scratching their outside their own homes. There is a really good argument cars or causing large traffic jams because they drive here around what I call pavement politics. Surely a through so slowly. resident of a street—a member of the British public— Secondly, I would really appreciate it if time were should be allowed to have a say in what happens outside spent looking again at section 6, to identify why rules their front door. They should have more of a say than that work in London cannot be applied outside it. To be somebody who sits in a council office at a distance and fair, Watford is not far from London, so even if it were is not affected by that. just a case of expanding the rules slightly to solve this big issue, I would appreciate it. However, on a serious Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the note, why do we not look at this again? I would really hon. Gentleman on bringing this debate forward. He appreciate it if time were taken to understand why this has come to the crux of the matter: this is about local is the case and whether there are any plans in this respect. residents. I believe that those who are affected by the Thirdly, on the much bigger point about local measures on the roads have a right to be consulted and communities, the past year has shown that, when we give then to have a say in what happens or does not happen. people on the frontline trust—when we embrace our Does he agree that sometimes, common sense has to communities, give them a voice and listen to them—the prevail and the authorities just have to listen? common sense that the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned is there. People know what Dean Russell: The hon. Gentleman makes an incredibly the issues are in their local community. They usually powerful point. This is about common sense. People know the solutions way before red tape and bureaucracy invest in their houses, they invest in their gardens if they kick in. I would really appreciate a view on whether we have them, and they invest in their local community. can start to ensure that local communities can have that Common sense should be part of the community. say, what we would do from there, and what the timeline One thing that we have seen over the past 12 months might be for some of the solutions. I thank the Minister is the cutting of red tape. That has been forced upon us for listening. because of the awfulness of covid—the pandemic has meant that we have had to cut through red tape to do 6.43 pm things quicker—but it has allowed us to trust people on the frontline. It has allowed us to trust local people to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport form community groups and help their neighbours—to (Rachel Maclean): I congratulate my hon. Friend the set up Facebook groups to get food delivered and help Member for Watford (Dean Russell) on securing this people in their community. Why can we not also trust end-of-day debate.May I take this opportunity to commend 897 ANPR and Width Restrictions23 MARCH 2021 ANPR and Width Restrictions 898 him and councillor candidate Carly Bishop for their would be used to enforce. Along with other safety-critical tireless efforts in representing so well the views of the restrictions, such as height and weight limits, they will residents and motorists of Woodmere Avenue and the remain the responsibility of the police, and the Government wider Tudor ward to find a solution to the issues that he have no plans to change the legislation to include width has outlined? I hope that Carly and the residents of restrictions. Woodmere Avenue are watching. We in the Government By design, width restrictions of this type are self- totally understand the desire for that common-sense enforcing, as traffic over the specified width cannot pavement politics approach. Of course I will do everything continue down the route. It is therefore not clear what in my power to help my hon. Friend advance the case, benefit CCTV enforcement would provide at this point. but I do not think he needs much assistance; he is doing The restriction in question is alongside a bus lane. Local it very well at the moment on his own. authorities have powers to enforce bus lane infringements I will start by setting out some background on where using CCTV, which might be something that the local responsibilities for traffic management issues such as authority could consider. Drivers should also be properly this lie. Managing traffic on local roads is a matter for informed of width restrictions in advance, in time to local traffic authorities. They have a range of duties, take an alternative route and avoid them altogether. powers and responsibilities on them in doing so. Local The local authority could review whether the signing on councils have a wide range of powers and tools available the approaches to this junction is clear enough to to help them manage their roads, including the ability to drivers. restrict access to roads to certain types of vehicles As my hon. Friend knows and has set out, local through width restrictions. councillors have a vital role in representing the concerns It is a matter for local authorities to decide whether a of their constituents to the local authority and to their width restriction is the right solution for a particular Member of Parliament and in securing change. They road, taking into account local circumstances, and to also have a role in determining what schemes are prioritised design such restrictions appropriately. Traffic signs for and how funding is allocated locally. We are clear that width restrictions are prescribed in the Traffic Signs authorities should take into account the needs of all Regulations and General Directions 2016. The Department road users in designing their schemes. They must engage has provided advice to local authorities on using these properly with local communities when considering changes signs in chapter 3 of the “Traffic Signs Manual”, which to local roads to ensure that they reflect their concerns is available free online. The Department advises that the and priorities. width shown on the sign should be at least 6 inches less In conclusion, I thank my hon. Friend for continuing than the actual available width. If the signed width is, to be such a vocal local champion and continuing to for example, 7 feet, the actual width between the bollards seek a suitable solution for the residents in the affected should be between 7 foot 6 inches and 7 foot 11 inches. area. I am very happy to continue working with him, Last year the Government announced that they would and I am sure that my noble Friend in the other place, implement the moving traffic enforcement powers in Baroness Vere, who is responsible for roads specifically part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004. That will and some of the regulation that my hon. Friend has enable those local authorities outside London with civil referred to, will also be very happy to continue working parking enforcement powers to apply to the Secretary with him. I am certain that the local authority and the of State to take responsibility for enforcement of a local councillors who are concerned with these matters number of moving traffic offences. Work is under way are watching tonight, and they will have heard his on drafting regulations and statutory guidance, but it is advocacy on behalf of the residents. I am confident, not possible at this stage to say exactly when in 2021 the therefore, that these continued efforts will lead to an powers will be commenced. appropriate solution being found. I must also explain that part 6 powers would not help Question put and agreed to. resolve the situation in Woodmere Avenue in the way that my hon. Friend has set out. Width restrictions are 6.49 pm not included in the list of offences that part 6 powers House adjourned.

293WH 23 MARCH 2021 Live Events: Government-backed 294WH Insurance We know the economic potential of the industry. The Westminster Hall creative industry contributes—can you believe it?— £13 million every hour to the British economy, with the Tuesday 23 March 2021 live events industry adding £70 billion to the UK economy every year. However, the significance of live events is not limited to the UK-wide economy. When events take [ in the Chair] place, local economies benefit, not only in direct revenue but through the increased use of hospitality or transport Live Events: Government-backed services. For example, and as I have said many times, the Edinburgh Festival Fringe generates no less than Insurance £500 million in direct spending, and a further £560 million Virtual participation in proceedings commenced (Order, goes into the Scottish economy indirectly. 25 February). Up in my own patch in the far north of Scotland, my [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] beloved Highland games are worth an estimated £25 million. The House can imagine what that means to rural areas. 9.25 am With 25% of the people attending those games, they provide a much-needed economic boost to my constituency Andrew Rosindell (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members and to other Scottish constituencies. But they also allow that there have been some changes to normal practice in us to share Scottish culture with people all around the order to support the new hybrid arrangements. Timings world. of debates have been amended to allow technical arrangements to be made for the next debate. There will At a time when this nation needs to recover, and be suspensions between debates. I remind Members aligned to employment opportunities, increasing the participating, physically and virtually, that they must consumption of hospitality and bringing tourism to arrive for the start of a debate in Westminster Hall and every nook and cranny of the country will help us not are expected to remain for the entire debate. I must also only build back better, but build back together. As the remind Members participating virtually that they are House can imagine, I do not want to see my constituency visible at all times, both to one another and to us in the being left behind in this regard, but that is exactly what Boothroyd Room. If Members attending virtually have is happening. I am hearing now that Highland games any technical problems, they should email the Westminster are being cancelled all over the highlands and Scotland Hall Clerk’s email address. Members attending physically because of uncertainty as to what the Government should clean their spaces before using them and before advice is. leaving the room. Members attending physically who I am asking for a scheme to be arranged whereby the are in the latter stages of the call list should use the seats Government would back insurance and underwrite it. I in the Public Gallery initially and move on to the am asking our Government to underwrite their own horseshoe when seats there become available. Members policy. If the Government are confident enough about can speak from the horseshoe only where there are their handling of the pandemic to ease restrictions, and microphones. if they have promised an irreversible road map, meaning the industry should not have to worry about further 9.26 am lockdowns, why are they so reluctant to put their money where their promises are? Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) If all the things that insurers are worried about never (LD): I beg to move, come to be, the Treasury will never have to make a That this House has considered Government-backed insurance payment. What this really demonstrates is the Government’s for live events. lack of confidence in their own policies; either that Everybody here today will be aware that live performance or they have a different definition of what their production is an inherently risky economic activity, as responsibilities are. the majority of capital is expended on pre-production I think every hon. Member here today must have and rehearsal prior to any income returns retrieved at expertise in the industry. I am no expert, but I listen to the performance stage. In other words, as a business, it experts such as Tim Thornhill from Tysers Insurance needs to invest money before it can take money back Brokers when they tell me that insurance is the key again. And therein lies the problem: for all the glorious to unlock the festival and live events door. On discussions music and theatre that live events offer, behind the with industry experts, the Minister promised my hon. scenes it is all about money and the integrity of the Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) business. Organisers simply cannot get the ball rolling—by last week that she would release documents relating to sourcing locations, paying performers, hiring equipment her discussion with industry experts and insurers. I am and so on—if they are not guaranteed that the show grateful that she has agreed to come and respond to our will go ahead. debate. I have heard the Government say many times that it There is a precedent, with the Government underwriting would be too expensive to create an insurance scheme. I insurance in the face of terrorism, and they make a lot beg to disagree with that. I think there needs to be a of money on that—over £200 million in each of the two perspective shift inside Government. Government must previous years. There is a precedent. I beg the Minister stop seeing our calls for an insurance scheme as expenditure to listen to my plea. and see this instead as an investment opportunity. I say that because ultimately, if they help facilitate the return 9.31 am of live events, the economic and cultural returns will (Winchester) (Con): It is nice to see you in end up paying for the initial investment—it will pay the Chair, Mr Rosindell. I thank the hon. Member for for itself. Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) 295WH Live Events: Government-backed 23 MARCH 2021 Live Events: Government-backed 296WH Insurance Insurance [Steve Brine] ahead this year—Glastonbury, of course, has not—but it is important to say that they are not the barometer for for opening the debate today. I am co-sponsoring this the entire festival industry. debate with the hon. Member for West (Kevin Members of the DCMS Committee wrote to the Brennan), with whom I serve on the Digital, Culture, Treasury on 6 January. We reminded the Government Media and Sport Committee. that they have backed insurance for the film and television I want to focus again on the festival industry. I say industry to the tune of some £500 million. It is now “again” because I spoke about it in the DCMS estimates time to do this for other creative industries. That could day debate a couple of weeks ago. The risks to events take a number of forms: one requires no up-front taking place this year revolve around three things: contribution from the Government and utilises the existing uncertainty, even with the road map; lack of working Pool Re structure, developed in response to unpredictable capital for our festivals; and the ongoing absence of the and devastating acts of terrorism. That would leave the insurance solution. Treasury with a maximum liability,we think, of £1.5 billion and could be adapted to cover a range of sectors, There are, believe it or not, around 975 festivals in the including hospitality, sports and leisure, as well as festivals UK every year—an incredible number. We reckon they and live performances and events. The point is that generate around £1.75 billion to £1.8 billion for the UK none of this need ever be needed. As the hon. Member economy every year and support around 85,000 jobs. for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross said on According to the excellent UK Music, more than 5 million opening the debate, all the Government need to do is people attended a festival in 2019—including me. It was back their own road map. In his reply on 8 February, a Boomtown Fair in my Winchester constituency, and, my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary to the Treasury for the record, Pattishall—a small community music said: festival in Northamptonshire. That really shows the difference between a very big event of tens of thousands “My officials are working with DCMS officials to understand of people and a very small village affair. what a viable roadmap would be for the reopening of the events sector and therefore the right point to consider potential support I would attest that a Government-backed insurance options which could unlock a reopening of the sector, including scheme is essential to the festival industry. I am not insurance-based solutions.” saying that insurance is the sole barrier to kickstarting That sounded positive, but it was obviously over a festivals, and it is a leap of faith, in some respects, with month ago. Please will the Minister update us on that taxpayers’ money. However, organisers cannot enter today? into the usual planning for 2021 without an insurance solution in place. It is simply the key that unlocks the The key question put by UK Music ahead of today’s process. As the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland debate is: do the Government believe that festivals and Easter Ross said, it is unfortunate that we have not should start planning for post-21 June without insurance yet managed to persuade the Government of the case. I in place? It made Government-backed insurance a key have to say that it is almost too late for 2021, but we plank of its excellent “Let the Music Play: Save Our must try, and we will. That is the purpose of today. Summer 2021” report, which made it clear that it was welcome that the Government delivered on so many The sector is not churlish; it very much welcomes the points in the report—an indicative date and extending Prime Minister’s road map out of lockdown, that it has financial support, to name but two. But without insurance, “no earlier than” dates, and the news that many festivals UK Music feels—and we agree—that the benefits to the may be able to go ahead in some capacity later this year. sector are restricted. However, we must understand that this is surrounded by caveats, and the problem is the planning cycle. There The live sector desperately needs to return to work. will be no more than a week’s notice of step 4 being The Minister is a great champion of that sector and she brought in. If all factors line up and 21 June is possible, knows this. The Government have stated that they will festivals may not get the go-ahead until 14 June. The do “whatever it takes” to support the economy and jobs Government’sevent research programme—which I welcome and boy,have we done that. Seventy per cent. of musicians very much—including the pilots, will need to be successfully have seen their work fall by at least 75%; grassroots completed by 21 June to enable step 4. Yet this does not music venues, such as the Railway Inn in my constituency, start until 12 April. Clearly, that has a significant impact have lost an average 75%—two thirds—of their income. on whether some festivals can proceed with planning Arenas are in the same position and technical companies for July and August this year, given the timeline without have lost on average 95% of their income. This is an insurance solution and the average go/no-go cut-off devastation across the sector. The longer the live music point being the end of this month. That is why I say it is sector is shut, the greater the damage and the more almost too late. difficult the recovery. Therefore, quickly clearing this insurance barrier is key to guaranteeing recovery. UK The insurance we are talking about does not exist in Music has calculated that a £680 million Government- the commercial market, which is unlikely to mobilise backed insurance scheme for music could underwrite this until at least 2022, so there is a market failure, or a £2 billion in activity. market gap. Even if festivals sell out well ahead of time, many organisers cannot draw down the revenue from The Government have stated that they are not intervening the ticketing companies, as it remains ring-fenced to be because insurance is not “the only barrier” to events paid out, rightly, post event or refunded to customers if taking place and has pointed to other interventions necessary.It remains an enormous risk for any independent they have made, such as the job retention scheme, the festival to proceed with costs up to 14 June, without self-employed scheme and the cultural recovery fund—all insurance and many just will not take it. Major festivals excellent schemes. The music sector is very grateful for such as Reading and Leeds have said that they will go those and other interventions, but they do not negate 297WH Live Events: Government-backed 23 MARCH 2021 Live Events: Government-backed 298WH Insurance Insurance the need for insurance, and their utility in supporting In talking about festivals this morning, we want the reopening is less than it would be without an insurance Government to provide some clarity. If it is the case solution. that it is not going to be possible for them to underwrite It is unclear what the Government mean by “the only events and if it is going to be the case that they do not barrier”. If reopening goes ahead on 21 June, the only think that they will stick to their irreversible timetable reason for live music events not to go ahead would be and will probably have to impose further restrictions in this inability to get the insurance—we keep coming the future, they should say so, because at the moment back to that. If public health in defence of delaying the sector is being led along on a string effectively and is reopening is the other barrier referred to, the industry unable to progress appropriately. is—let’s face it—in a Catch-22, because it is the possibility I have heard it said that the Government think that of that intervention that is distorting the commercial because festivals and live music events are selling tickets music market and raising the need for Government they do not need insurance, but of course normally—in intervention in the first place. a normal year—that ticket revenue would be used to do In conclusion, this matters for all the reasons that I the build and provide the infrastructure to put on things have touched on this morning, but it matters right now such as festivals. However, this year is not a normal when events, short of insurance, short of certainty and year,because festivals cannot get any cancellation insurance; short of cashflow, are selling tickets to young people they cannot get insurance against not being able to desperate for something to look forward to. proceed, which would normally be available in the market, as the hon. Member for Winchester said. As a We cannot have events that do not have a licence in result, that money would have to be returned to ticket place, as sometimes happens. I found one the other day purchasers if the event was unable to go ahead and that had not even contacted the safety advisory group there would be a huge impact on those trying to put on of the respective local authority and was selling tickets— festivals and also further down the supply chain. often at £100-plus a go—on the promise of hope alone. That will do the vast majority of this well-run and That is why the hon. Gentleman—who, as I have professional industry no favours whatsoever, but in many said, is on the DCMS Committee, like me—was quite ways it is a symptom of the situation that we are in. right to draw the attention of that Committee and of I appreciate that the insurance situation is difficult. It the Minister to the possibility of money being taken is not the only issue in play here and we do not pretend from people that will never be returned to them, and that it is, but it is the key that can unlock the door. potentially fraudulent activity taking place around the festival scene this year without the kind of certainty that insurance provides. So we need either insurance to 9.40 am be underwritten for the sector to be able to restart or a Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): It is a pleasure clear indication that festivals will not be able to take to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell, and it place and financial support to allow the sector to survive is also a pleasure to be part of this cross-party supergroup into 2022. this morning, which has got together to work across Other countries are doing things about this situation. party lines and to argue for proper insurance indemnity for events this year from the Government. Jamie Stone: The hon. Gentleman is making a splendid I thank the Minister for her attendance, although, as contribution to the debate, which I really appreciate. the hon. Member for Winchester (Steve Brine)—who, Does he agree that the longer we delay in getting these like me, is on the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport events up and running, the more danger there is of Committee—has just said, we would really like to hear people losing momentum and even deskilling, in terms from the Treasury, because we would like to know what of performance and generating public enthusiasm? it has made of all the representations that have been made to it by the industries that we are talking about Kevin Brennan: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely today. For fronting up for the Government time and right. I have praised the investment in the culture recovery again, the Minister deserves some kind of award, but fund, which the Minister will mention in her remarks at we need to know the answers, and one wonders whether the end of the debate—she has to do that; it is an they are currently locked away in a vault somewhere important riff for her as the Minister. There are criticisms, across the road in the Treasury. We want to know what however. In the 1980s, we had the concept of the the Treasury really thinks. neutron bomb, which was developed so that it would As the hon. Member for Winchester did, I will focus kill the enemy but not destroy the buildings all around. today on festivals and live music events, but I will also In a way, the culture recovery fund is a wonderful thing, say a little bit about theatre. I will not go through the but if it just saves the buildings and some infrastructure, whole set of statistics, as the hon. Members for Caithness, but does not protect the people in the sector and the Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) and for skills that the hon. Gentleman mentioned, that will be Winchester have already done. Suffice it to say that one an additional cost. He is right to make that point. statistic for Cardiff is that across the river from my I was going to mention what is happening in other constituency, in the Principality Stadium, countries. The Danish Government have announced an played four nights in a row in June 2018 to 60,000 people event cancellation fund of ¤67.2 million. The Dutch a night, which is nearly a quarter of a million people Government have just announced an insurance fund of over the course of just a few nights. I do not need to ¤385 million. ’s Ministry of Economic Affairs spell out to hon. Members and to people watching this and Employment is working on a Government-backed debate the economic impact of such events, and their insurance scheme for summer events, to be finalised by importance to the economy of Cardiff and to the wider the end of the month. The Estonian Government have a economy of south Wales. scheme. The Germans have a similar fund, of ¤2.5 billion, 299WH Live Events: Government-backed 23 MARCH 2021 Live Events: Government-backed 300WH Insurance Insurance [Kevin Brennan] is open-air cinema in Canbury Gardens, and there are fairs in all our neighbourhoods every year, but much of to cover promoter risk. I could also mention schemes that is being put at risk this year. proposed by the Austrian, Belgian and Norwegian There is so much pent-up demand, with people stuck Governments. Such a scheme is not without precedent, at home all year. They have been staring at their laptops, because there is a precedent in the creative industries in as I am now, or their television screens. Live events are this country, in the film and television sector. All that such an important part of the cultural and economic many people in the industry are asking for is a similar life of the country because nothing can replace that scheme. It is vital for live music events and festivals that personal experience of theatre or live music. There is action is taken. nothing like it. I am sure we can all remember our I want to speak briefly about theatre. The theatre favourite gig, our best experience of live music, whether sector, and UK Theatre, have been lobbying Government that is the Proms, Glastonbury, Glyndebourne or just a hard for months. Many people involved in theatre band in the local park. We will all remember that as an production are also involved in film and television exciting experience that we long for more than ever after production, and they do not understand why the Treasury the terrible year we have had, which we are commemorating could provide an insurance indemnity scheme for the today. film and television industry, but could not provide an That is why I wanted to be in this debate and to speak identical scheme for the theatre sector, as UK Theatre is up for live events. I have had experience of appearing in asking for. Without a return to normal for theatre theatre and putting on theatrical productions. I know production, there will be a huge negative impact on the that, above all, live events are risky—you have to take a total economy,including loss of tax revenues and economic chance. Planning will start in January or February, activity. That will be felt particularly badly in city tickets will start to be sold, notice will be given of what centres and some towns. will happen in June and the acts will be booked. Anything The insurance market is not offering a scheme of this could go wrong in that time: the headline act could fall kind, and it is clear that it will not offer one for the ill or encounter some other obstacle, or the weather foreseeable future—into 2022 at the very least. The risk might not be what was hoped for—any number of exposure figures have been provided to Her Majesty’s things could go wrong. Government by, for example, UK Theatre and the new Paying for insurance is already a large part of the cost umbrella body for the live sector. The Treasury has not of putting on a live event. This year we have the publicly said what is wrong with those figures, and that additional massive uncertainty of whether the Government is what we need to know—if it does not agree with what will allow live events to go ahead in the summer. I the sector is saying, it should say so. support the Government’s road map; I think it is right We need to hear from the Minister not only about the to be cautious, to take things slowly and not to make a culture recovery fund, although we understand how decision until June on whether live events can go ahead. important it has been, but about the discussions between The frustration and tragedy is that we have great pent-up her and the Secretary of State and the Treasury. What demand for live events. We have a huge number of have the discussions been like, and what is the Treasury people who are ready, able and willing to get out there saying? If it will not be possible to provide an underwriting and start performing again and putting on events. We insurance scheme, the Government should come clean just need to be able to bridge the risk gap, which is why I with the creative industries, so that they can plan support calls for a Government-backed insurance scheme accordingly, and Ministers should offer support to help and think it is so important. them through to the next stage of this dreadful pandemic. The sector supports a huge number of jobs. Obviously, a lot of that is unskilled seasonal work, but that is an important part of our economy, not just for students 9.49 am but for young people leaving school and those constrained Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD) [V]: It is a pleasure from entering the regular workforce. The live events to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell. I industry also gives opportunities to entrepreneurs, commend my hon. Friend the Member for Caithness, particularly in food and retail. There are lots of easy-to- Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) for securing access opportunities to sell directly to the general public, this valuable debate. I share with him direct experience without some of the cost barriers that might be experienced of involvement with the live events sector, and know in other retail. how close it is to his heart, as a former performer. There is also skilled work for technicians of all types Although my hon. Friend and I represent the same in lighting, sound, logistics and freight. To pick up on party in Parliament, we represent very different the intervention made by my hon. Friend the Member constituencies. In both our constituencies—his in the for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, there is a far north, in the rural highlands, and mine on the risk that we will lose some of those skills. Once people outskirts of London—live events are an important part find that they cannot earn a living doing what they of the cultural experience. I am sure that that is the trained for, they will do something else. Even more same for every constituency in the country and that live importantly, I am concerned that we will lose the pipeline, events, particularly in the summer, are part of the particularly in our creative industries. I am concerned lifeblood of the community. for musicians, actors, set designers and costume designers, Other Members have talked about events in their many of whom have been without work for 12 months. constituencies. Wehave some fabulous events in Richmond I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Park. Kew Gardens, which I am privileged to represent, Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, who has done holds a wonderful live music concert called Kew the fantastic work as chairman of the all-party parliamentary Music. We also have lots of little events going on. There group on gaps in support. We must not forget that a lot 301WH Live Events: Government-backed 23 MARCH 2021 Live Events: Government-backed 302WH Insurance Insurance of those people who are waiting to hear whether they equipment hire and similar areas of the economy. They have work this summer have not had any financial also support the island’s visitor economy, such as shops, support all year. They have often worked on a contract bars, restaurants and accommodation, and they also basis. As we all know, contractors have lost out on help local farmers to diversify their incomes. The funding furlough and the self-employment income support scheme. and spend of almost all the smaller independent festivals Many of them have really had no support at all, so I also go directly into the local economy, employing urge the Treasury to look at what it can do to try to get hundreds, if not thousands, of people. As well as an the live events sector back up and running this summer, economic impact, they also have a significant cultural particularly to support those people. impact on the island. I am very concerned for the creative sector in particular. As has been pointed out, festivals are year-long It is such a strategic sector for our country in terms of endeavours; as soon as one festival is finished, those what we export abroad. Our cultural products are among involved are already planning next year. A year’s worth the best in the world, and it is absolutely essential that of effort goes into something that is mostly only a the Government maintain this pipeline. There will be weekend long. While other elements of the hospitality young people leaving school or university this summer— industry, such as pubs and restaurants, can turn off and talented musicians and aspiring actors—who will look on during lockdown—however inconvenient that is—it at our cultural sector at the moment and think to has been very difficult for the festival and arts industries themselves, “It’s too risky to try to earn a living. There to do that. isn’t enough economic support out there for musicians The hon. Member for Cardiff West eloquently explained or actors.” Then they will go off and seek employment why Government-backed insurance—pooled reinsurance, in other sectors. That will lead to the weakening of our to use the term that was used in the IRA days—is a very cultural sector. I just want to reiterate that it is such an good idea, and I fully support it. Given the long lead important sector for us in terms of projecting our times, we need to help, and we need to give confidence values and our soft power around the world, and there to festival organisers, so that they know that their work is no more important time than now for us to be will not be wasted. It is likely that festivals will be able doing so. to go ahead this summer, with all the new mitigations in I know that the Treasury is not present in this debate, place around testing and the vaccination process, so I but I take this opportunity to call on it to think strategically do not quite understand why we cannot have a pooled about supporting the cultural sector. I really value the reinsurance scheme, which could be relatively cheap but work of many of those present in identifying the need help to kickstart this element of our arts and entertainment for a Government-backed insurance scheme; it is a industry. straightforward solution that can really help to kickstart What concerns me is that every day we are in lockdown, things and remove some of the risks and barriers to it costs us a minimum of half a billion pounds in lost getting live events back up and running this summer. economic output and cost to the Treasury. If we can That will be so important to so many people—both come out of lockdown only a few days earlier, we could those working in these industries and those of us who be billions of pounds better off. A very small percentage have been stuck at home for a year and who just want to of that money could be used to provide a scheme of get back out there. It will be a massive boost to the pooled reinsurance for festivals—not only on the Isle of mental health of the nation if live music events can take Wight, but across Britain. As everybody who has spoken place again this summer. in the debate has said, we need those festivals for people’s mental health and for the enjoyment of arts, 9.56 am culture and music, including the music festivals that we () (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure to have on the Island. We badly need those in our lives serve under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell. It is also again, because we have missed them in the last year. As a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Richmond well as helping our economy, they enrich our souls. Park (Sarah Olney). I agree with one of the critical I hope very much that the Minister, who I know is points that she made, which is about people involved in absolutely passionate about her role, can see her way to the arts, and support to the arts, having fared particularly working on the Treasury a bit harder, so that we can badly in this pandemic. That has been an issue of real have some kind of pooled reinsurance scheme to support regret. all the great festival businesses and all the jobs that they support on the Isle of Wight and throughout the United I thank the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland Kingdom. and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone), my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester (Steve Brine) and the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) for leading 10.1 am this debate, and I agree very strongly with the points Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]: they made. I will not speak for too long, because I just As always, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, want to echo some of those points, specifically in relation Mr Rosindell. It is also a real pleasure to sum up the to festivals on the Isle of Wight. debate for the Scottish National party, and I congratulate The Isle of Wight is effectively Britain’s festival island; our trio of trusty troubadours, led by the choirmaster, we are home to a new festival almost every weekend, the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter over and above the significant, major festivals that we Ross (Jamie Stone), on bringing this important issue to have hosted, such as the and the House. I refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Cowes Week, which is the biggest sailing event in the Financial Interests. world. Festivals contribute significant value to the island’s This is yet another instalment of the ongoing travails economy,although their value is wider than just economic. of our live music industry and the artists who are They support extensive supply chains, local businesses, involved on the frontline of it—the next verse in the 303WH Live Events: Government-backed 23 MARCH 2021 Live Events: Government-backed 304WH Insurance Insurance [Pete Wishart] Already, as we have heard, it is too late for some great music festivals across the UK. Some have decided that song entitled “The Worst of Times”. Live music is they just cannot take the risk; Glastonbury will not be vulnerable, like no other sector, to the strictures and going ahead for a second year this year. Others have conditions of covid. It suffers probably more than any decided that the risk is still worth taking, and are still other sector under the requirement to keep people planning to put on their festival events. Reading and socially distanced as we get on top of this pandemic. Leeds festivals have been mentioned, and I really hope Music is a social business: it involves people coming they are able to go ahead this year. Some are still together, and it involves performance. It is all about assessing the risk. Festivals such as Latitude, community and coming together, and it is obvious that and Download say that everything hangs in the balance, music will suffer as a result of people being restricted in with the final choice dependent on whether an insurance coming together. Whereas other sectors can now look scheme is in place. forward with a degree of optimism to the possibility of It is worth recognising that, even without covid, getting back to work and back to normal, live music festivals are already a risky business, and that risk could can only surveil its future with continuing anxiety and be of the order of millions of pounds. The fields of the concern, underpinned by the lack of clarity at the heart UK are littered with failed festival enterprises. Every of the planning. year, the margins get tighter and it gets tougher and Everybody just wants to get back to gigs. We have tougher for festivals to prosper and succeed. The festival heard from hon. Members about how imperative that is experience is variously a holiday, a rite of passage and and what it does, not just for the economy of this an opportunity to participate in a little weekend of nation, but for our wellbeing, our sense of ourselves all-consuming hedonism. The general rule is that if you and our enjoyment of the things that we like to get out remember it, you were not really there. and do that make us feel normal. A YouGov survey that I have been pretty lucky: I have seen festivals from really struck me a couple of weeks ago showed that half both sides. I have played in most of the big festivals the UK population want to go to live events this summer around Europe, and I know exactly what they mean to and that 75% believe that live events are a critical part people—not just the people who go to see it, great as it of our culture. We know that the demand is there and is for them, but for the artists. I think it is only me and that people are just waiting for the green light to go out the right hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy and see their favourite bands once again. Corbyn) who have appeared live on the Pyramid stage at Glastonbury, though I think I am the only one who Hon. Members are right to remind us of the contribution appeared there with a musical instrument. For the that live music brings to the economy and of the sense artist, it is the highlight of the live performance calendar, of joy that music gives us all. The Government can help and for so many it is an essential source of income. If a unlock this boost to the economy, at no real cost to new band is invited along to a festival such as T in the themselves, by giving a commitment to help underwrite Park, Reading or Glastonbury, they share a stage with the costs in case of any cancellations that might occur— legends—people who have been in the business for cancellations that have nothing to do with the festivals, decades. It is such an immense thrill and opportunity. but that result from obeying the requirements set by the Sometimes, they get the opportunity to play to tens of Government. thousands of people, maybe after just performing in the We recognise what the Government are doing, and local pub. They are tipped as being the next big thing, we welcome the measures that have already been outlined—I and it is a real opportunity to test their talents. For am sure the Minister will tell us about them again, and musicians, it is immense; it is such an important feature there is no question about the fact that they have been of the development of their career and the progression thoroughly good. The expanded support for freelancers of what they have to offer. and the self-employed is a step in the right direction for It is not just about the musicians; it is also about the an industry in which three quarters of the 200,000 workforce crew, the stage constructors, the security staff and the are self-employed. We welcome the £300 million boost hundreds of members of the public recruited to ensure to the culture recovery fund, but I still do not understand the success of the event. In fact, building a festival is why it cannot be extended to include freelancers, which like constructing a temporary large town or small city, is how we operate our schemes in Scotland and Wales. with all the infrastructure that is required. I had T in the All of that is welcome and will help, but for live Park just next door to me in the Ochil and South music, and particularly for our festivals, as we heard Perthshire constituency, and for one weekend per year from hon. Members who discussed the festivals in their when was on the go, it was the eighth-largest constituencies, there have to be guarantees and assurances settlement in Scotland. so that events can go ahead, secure in the knowledge It is more than that; it is about what it delivers for the that, if there are covid events beyond their control, community in Perthshire. T in the Park was the second- there will be somebody there to step in. There is only a biggest festival in the UK, and throughout the weekend period of weeks for staging live music events this summer. when it was on, every single hotel and restaurant in Organisers will have to make decisions in the next few Perth in my constituency was full. The communities of days and weeks about whether they can proceed or Kinross and Milnathort, which were a sort of base whether they will be forced to cancel. It is all about camp for T in the Park, were practically part of the having the confidence to proceed and the security to festival. We need reassurance that these festivals can go go ahead. The live music industry urgently needs this ahead, not just for the artists, the musicians and the Government-backed insurance scheme to protect against industry but for the communities we serve. They need to the risk of losses if a festival or concert is forced to know that the festivals can go ahead with security. cancel due to covid. People need the confidence to put on festivals again. 305WH Live Events: Government-backed 23 MARCH 2021 Live Events: Government-backed 306WH Insurance Insurance I think it was the hon. Member for Cardiff West in the Government’s hands; they can give the reassurance (Kevin Brennan)—it was certainly one of our trio—who that is required. Let us bring the music back. said that other countries are able to do this. They think it is valuable. Last week, Denmark became the latest 10.12 am country to introduce Government-backed insurance for Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab) [V]: It is a events. I know Danish festivals really well. Festivals are pleasure to serve virtually under your chairmanship, an intrinsic part of the music offer in Denmark. Every Mr Rosindell, and I congratulate the hon. Member for single town and city has a festival, so the Danish Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) Government have moved in to protect their industry, on having brought forward this important debate and I congratulate them on that. It is not just Denmark; this morning. festival organisers have been supported in Germany, Norway, the Netherlands, Austria and Belgium. If all The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire those countries right across Europe can do it, why (Pete Wishart) has spoken extensively on the importance cannot the UK? of live music; in fact, listening to him talk about Glastonbury made me feel quite unambitious in life, in It all starts with the UK Government engaging with comparison with the passion that many people feel the industry on how best to ensure that we get an about their opportunities to perform. I understand that insurance scheme that works for our live music sector. because, as the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah As we have heard, the Government have already backed Olney) mentioned, nothing can replace live events. Most the film industry with a bespoke insurance scheme. of us knew that before; we certainly know it after the That is great: it is required and it needed to happen, but past year of hell without them. it needs to happen for music too. There is a proposal on the table. We know that several live events organisations I also thank all members of the Select Committee on have got together and worked to produce a scheme that Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, particularly my hon. is probably sitting on the Minister’s desk: all she needs Friend the Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) to do is sign it off, and we are there. and the hon. Member for Winchester (Steve Brine), Tysers is calling for the UK to support a £650 million who have spoken expertly on the issue of an insurance insurance scheme to get our live sector back on its feet. scheme. The Select Committee has done very good This proposal could support the whole of the live events work on this, and I am sure the Minister will be looking sector—promoters, venues and artists—and prevent job very closely at what its members have said this morning, losses and economic inactivity. As an insurance fund, it in addition to the extensive evidence that it has provided has the added benefit that it may not even be used, to the Government. making it even more cost effective than grants. The I want to ask one further thing on that, and then Government have absolutely nothing to lose from getting make two more brief points before we hear from the involved with the live music sector and going along with Minister. It does seem that the Treasury is the decision this. This package of support will be targeted directly at maker here, so I wonder why we have a Minister from UK beneficiaries, providing them with the support and DCMS before us this morning, not a Treasury Minister. confidence they need to put on shows and events, and It feels as though, on a number of issues, DCMS is unleashing over £2 billion of economic potential. The essentially communicating messages from the Treasury, Minister has nothing to lose, so I ask her to look at the and it would be good to hear directly from the scheme, and give it her backing and the green light. horse’s mouth. The proposed scheme would have a timeframe only On other support, Members also mentioned the way up to the end of 2022, and it would be available only to in which some Treasury schemes have not suited well companies putting on shows in line with guidance. It those in the creative and cultural industries. I really would not cover non-coronavirus issues, and claims hope that point has been heard and understood, not would be capped at a certain budget and must be only by DCMS Ministers but by those in the Treasury; justified. This is all in the Government’s hands—it is all it would be good to hear directly from them on that. there, ready to go, if there is the political will—and the Secondly, we know that events are crucial to our benefit for the Minister is that this time around, she economy. Members also spoke this morning on the size, does not have to deal with the invidious EU. This is scale and centrality of creative industries generally, and nothing to do with it; it is not a constraining feature or the events industry specifically, in the UK. We currently factor. She does not have to sit around the table to have trial events taking place, and it would be good if negotiate a visa arrangement with it: it is all about her the Minister could say a little bit more about the process and her Department. The only door she needs to knock for those, particularly as, again, some of the issues there on is that of the Treasury, to unlock this fund, give the will not necessarily be handled completely by DCMS; assurance, the confidence and the backing, and get this there will obviously be input from the Cabinet Office unleashed. People want to go to gigs; let them go. The and potentially the Department of Health and Social artists just cannot wait to get back to performing live. I Care. Will she talk about the process for reviewing have tried every week to watch a live show online, just to those, who will be involved and who will be the decision make sure that our artists are supported, but believe me, makers in Government on the steps to move forward? they want to play in front of audiences again. They have Will the Minister also commit to an open-book approach? been deprived of that for a year, and they need to have Will we be able to see and review evidence that the that contact. They need to get those guitars, keyboards, Government collect, because that would be helpful in drums, basses, or whatever in front of an audience and building confidence in the process? A huge number of play them. uncertainties face the events industry—as Members People want to get back to gigs. Live music is important already covered; I will not go over them again—so to all the communities we represent, and live music and making sure that we are all able to work together will be music tourism give a real boost to our economy. This is helpful. 307WH Live Events: Government-backed 23 MARCH 2021 Live Events: Government-backed 308WH Insurance Insurance [Alison McGovern] Many hon. Members have highlighted the vast contribution that DCMS sectors make to the UK’s Finally,we need to make sure that the current economic international standing, to all our lives and specifically turbulence driven by covid does not reinforce any of the to the economy—in 2019, £116 billion from the creative pre-existing structural inequalities that exist in the United industries, £17 billion from sport, £151 billion from Kingdom, whether that is labour force inequalities— digital, and £75 billion from tourism. These sectors unemployment statistics out today show the hugely together support a total of around 6.9 million jobs. We disproportionate impact of covid on jobs for younger have an economic imperative as well as a cultural one to people—or places in our country that previously stand by those industries. experienced deindustrialisation or other economic disadvantage. Several Members highlighted the important Kevin Brennan: We have our differences but I am role that the live events sector plays in those places; grateful to have this conversation. I know the Minister’s many of the jobs that we are talking about are good personal support for the sector and she has rightly jobs in areas that really need them. It would be terrible emphasised its economic value. Have the Government if the virus exacerbated any of the structural inequalities looked at the schemes in other European countries that that previously held our country back, particularly over I highlighted in my remarks, which are being put in the past 10 years. What discussions has the Minister place to underwrite the possibility of having events go had with the Department for Work and Pensions and ahead? What is her assessment of what other countries others to make sure that it is not only the Treasury that are doing and whether the UK could mirror that? understands that its schemes and programmes need to better fit the creative industries? : I am really pleased that the hon. Gentleman raised this because, of course, we are looking I look forward to hearing from the Minister. I hope at all the schemes. I was coming on to say that the hon. she listened carefully to all that those Select Committee Member for Richmond Park talked about that as a members have said and will let us know how decisions straightforward solution and the hon. Member for Perth on this will be taken from here. and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) said how we have nothing to lose, but the person who hit the nail on 10.18 am the head was my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester The Minister for Digital and Culture (Caroline Dinenage): (Steve Brine), who said this is a leap of faith for the It is such a pleasure to serve under your stewardship, Government. Mr Rosindell, and to respond on behalf of the Government There have been different schemes announced around to this important debate. I start by heaping praise on to the world, but most recently the German scheme has the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter now been stalled. The ¤2.5 billion that the Germans Ross (Jamie Stone) for securing this vital debate and promised has been stalled in light of the public health enabling this discussion on a subject that is so important situation as they have announced a third lockdown in to such a vast number of our sectors. It is quite poignant Germany over Easter. That is the worst possible that this debate comes a year since the lockdown started. situation—to announce a package of support and then What a horrible year it has been. So many speakers withdraw it. That is the situation that we want to avoid, highlighted just what a huge loss it has been to so many which is why we are looking at this so carefully. of us to have live events missing from our lives. I understand more than anything the urgency of the The hon. Gentleman spoke with great passion about situation when it comes to a decision on indemnity, and events in his part of Scotland, including the highland the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) games, of course, which as well as being wonderful for said it is key that this decision is made soon. Like so local morale, spirit and wellbeing are a huge contributor many of the tough decisions that have been made over to the local economy and a global phenomenon that the last year, it is a really difficult one, and ultimately it really puts Scotland on the map; they are well known all is a decision for the Treasury because it is a financial around the world. I completely understand his desire to one, as he pointed out. In DCMS, our job is to work see them back up and running again as soon as possible. very closely with the sector, as we have been doing right In fact, the strength of sentiment shown across the the way through this crisis, to figure out exactly what is room demonstrates how desperately important the digital, needed, to gather all the evidence together and to culture, media and sport sectors are not just to our present that to our colleagues in the Treasury. economy and our heritage, but to our sense of wellbeing As many colleagues have said today, the circumstances as a nation. We are desperate to be able to return to live of the pandemic have left so many of the sectors that events. DCMS is proud to represent without the certainty they As if to taunt me, we have had representatives from need to confidently reopen. Our engagement started some of the areas where I was due to have seen live from day one. Almost on a weekly basis, I am talking to events last year. I was due to go to Kew the Music to see one group or another from across our sectors. We have the Gipsy Kings. I was due to have been at Boomtown working groups and those that are bringing together and at the Isle of Wight festival. All of that was taken guidance. I have met individually with representatives away so I can completely understand people’s frustration from various sectors. I met with my hon. Friend the from a personal perspective as well as a professional Member for Isle of Wight (Bob Seely) along with all the one. The hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah festivals on the Island. I met with all the festivals in Olney) spoke about the pent-up demand and she hit the Edinburgh, for example. We are continually engaging nail on the head. We are all desperate to be able to with stakeholders throughout this period to understand return to live events from festivals, gigs and theatre to what they need, what the barriers are to reopening, and business and sporting events, and we want to do that as what the challenges are, and that will, of course, include soon as it is safe to do so. indemnity cover. 309WH Live Events: Government-backed 23 MARCH 2021 Live Events: Government-backed 310WH Insurance Insurance Jamie Stone: If I understand the Minister correctly, worked very closely with them to talk about the public she is saying to us, in drawing the comparison with health context and ensure that we are in a good position. Germany, that the time is not ripe. Can I then assume In an ideal world, the insurance sector itself would step that there will be some stage, hopefully as soon as up to the plate and support this vital part of our possible, when the time is ripe to look at such schemes? economy, but in the absence of that, any decision on a sponsor package rests with the Treasury. Caroline Dinenage: What I am saying is that the The Government recognise the challenges that have decision is with the Treasury right now. We are working been faced by organisations and individuals alike and very closely with the Treasury to provide the evidence it have ensured that support is available. The hon. Member needs to make a financial decision on this, and it is a big for Cardiff West trailed this, but I will now talk about financial decision. My hon. Friend the Member for some of the specific things that have taken place across Winchester hit the nail on the head when he said it is a the wider economy. A number of Members have spoken leap of faith. It is obviously a big financial decision that about freelancers, and we know that so many of our live the Treasury has to make. I am trying to articulate the events depend upon an army of really talented freelancers, background within which that decision will be made. who do a whole range of really skilled jobs. Our sectors But it is absolutely still on the table, and it is absolutely rely on freelance work more than any other, and I am still a decision being looked at right now. In DCMS we keenly aware of the financial needs that many have are really keen to gather all the evidence that is needed found themselves in. That is why I was really pleased to make that case. that in his Budget speech the Chancellor extended the Steve Brine: I want to stiffen the argument that the self-employed income support scheme, which means an Minister is making to the Treasury. It is about the additional 600,000 people can access support on top of supply chain, which the hon. Member for Cardiff West those who have already received it. In addition, Arts (Kevin Brennan) touched on. It is not simply the case Council England has so far awarded £51 million to that they are going to have another rotten year; for individuals needing support. Those things are important many in the supply chain, two years of this will end as well, as we try to work our way back. their business, and then they will fall into other support The Chancellor also announced that the 100% business schemes. The calculation that the Department can make rates holiday for retail, hospitality and leisure in England to Her Majesty’s Treasury, therefore, is of a reduction in has been extended by an additional three months. He other areas if it saves here. I think that there is very has also extended the 5% VATreduction until 30 September, much an argument about investing to save that the before then tapering it for the rest of the financial year. Department can make to Treasury colleagues. It is worth saying that the VAT cut alone is forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility to be worth around Caroline Dinenage: I understand exactly what my £4.7 billion for hospitality and tourism and visitor hon. Friend is saying. Another Member—I cannot attractions. A new recovery loan scheme will also be remember who it was—said that this is, by definition, launched to replace the existing Government guarantee quite a precarious industry anyway. My eldest son was schemes that close at the end of March, which have due to go to the Boardmasters festival down in Newquay supported £73 billion of lending to date. This will help the year before, which was tragically cancelled because businesses of all sizes, including in our vital DCMS of the weather. The festival organisers have had to put sectors and numerous live events, to take the next stage up with two years of cancellations already before 2021, of recovery. so Members can see what a huge pressure has been put A total of £700 million of extra funding to support on them. our world-leading arts, culture and sporting institutions However, hon. Members will recognise that the bar was announced in the Budget, all serving to protect for considering Government intervention is set extremely what makes the UK a world-leading destination. The high, as of course it has to be, especially in light of the levelling-up fund—45 new town deals and city growth considerable extension to so many financial packages deals in Scotland and Wales—shows how the Government that have already been helping our sectors—the furlough are investing right across our Union. scheme, the business rate relief, the VAT cuts and local business support. The key thing that will give us much Kevin Brennan: The Minister is being generous in more certainty as we move forward is our world-class giving way; I am grateful. I understand that she has to vaccination roll-out, along with all the steps we have outline the other things that the Government are doing—in been taking to beat the virus. This, along with reopening another debate, many of us would argue that there are when we are confident that it is safe to do so, will reduce still a lot of gaps and that a lot of people are missing the chance of cancellation and interruptions due to out—but the subject of today’s debate is Government- covid-19, creating a much more predictable and secure backed insurance for live events. Just to take her back to opening context for all sorts of events to take place. that for a moment, I listened to what she said earlier. Hopefully that will de-risk the sector as well. Some in the creative industries feel that the Government might be delaying an announcement on this because In that context, we are continuing to engage with they are going to cherry-pick which sectors they will be organisations to work through all the barriers to staging prepared to provide some insurance indemnity for events, and indemnity insurance is of course one of eventually, and that the major victim of that will be live those. It is part of our wider drive to reopen our crucial music and the festivals sector. That will just be filed in sectors as quickly as it is safe to do so. We are also the drawer at the Treasury marked “Too difficult.” Are working with other Departments. The Opposition they wrong in thinking that? spokeswoman, the hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern), asked me about that. We do meet regularly Caroline Dinenage: The hon. Gentleman is slightly with other Departments. I met with representatives over-complicating this. I do not think that is the case at from a number of Departments last week, and we all. The film and TV restart scheme was something that 311WH Live Events: Government-backed 23 MARCH 2021 Live Events: Government-backed 312WH Insurance Insurance [Caroline Dinenage] stand ready to do whatever it takes to help our country and our economy recover from the disruption of the many thought would be too difficult, but we were able coronavirus pandemic. to do that at pace last year, and by the last quarter of last year we were seeing more film and TV production Jamie Stone: I rather fancied that my hon. Friend the than virtually any other quarter, so we know that these Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) was hinting, things can be done despite obstacles. perhaps with tongue in cheek, at my role in events and Also, the hon. Member for Cardiff West must be festivals in the past. I therefore rise to my feet as a careful not to brush away the £65 billion-worth of former panto dame—I have waited many years to utter measures announced in the Budget for this year and those words. When I was in costume, I would have said next, which will support the economy through the that it was madness to suggest that I would ever be in pandemic. Those things are literally saving livelihoods the House of Commons to say that. every single day, and of course that builds on the I thank all who have contributed to this debate. I am existing support already committed, which totalled more grateful than I can say for their thoughtful £353 billion across the economy. The support that has contributions, and I am grateful to the Minister, who, been put in place is world leading and has been vital to within her role, has given us the best answer that she the continued survival and recovery of our DCMS can, but I think it is a moving situation. sectors. I meet parts of our sectors every week, and they I want to touch on several points. In an answer to my have seen measures such as the furlough scheme and the hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park, the Minister business support measures as a lifeline allowing their indicated that she might share the documentation of survival. reasoning with my hon. Friend. May I appeal to her to The hon. Member for Cardiff West talks about bricks share it with Members present here today? I say this not and mortar, but it is also about individuals, and there as an effort to try to score points, but to see whether we has been a lot of direct support for individuals. At the can work together constructively to see how we can get end of the day, however, the one thing that so many of the industry back on its feet. I emphasise the point our great performers, artists and professionals in these again that it is an investment that we seek. Money sectors want to do is get back to work as quickly as injected into an industry that desperately needs it will be possible. They need to have venues in which to be able a shot in the arm, and that money will in turn be to do that. That is why it is important that that support recycled into not only the national economy, but local is across the board and why the culture recovery fund economies—a point made eloquently by the hon. Member has been so successful, with an additional £300 million for Isle of Wight (Bob Seely). The hon. Member for dedicated to that in the Budget. That is an extension of Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) pointed out that other the original £1.57 billion fund, which is unprecedented. countries are putting into place such schemes, so I hope That will safeguard our cultural and heritage organisations, that we are on a road map to doing something similar as while it also helps support supply chain organisations, and when we can, or as soon as possible. which rely so much on them, with supply chain I want to end with this point: at the end of the day, we organisations able to apply for both of the rounds are all talking about something that is terribly important so far. to the way we live our lives in the UK, because events I want to talk a little about the road map and the and festivals brighten up people’s lives and they are fun. reopening. The Prime Minister announced the scientific God only knows, after the horrific time we have had events research programme and a number of hon. Members with the pandemic, we need some fun in this country, have asked me about that. It is an integral part of the and it would make an enormous difference to everyone’s road map, which will explore how larger events across lives. the cultural and entertainment sectors can reopen safely. Finally, Mr Rosindell, apart from thanking your good Over the spring this will include a series of pilots that self—it is always a pleasure to serve under your will use enhanced testing approaches and other measures chairmanship—I say to the Minister that when we have to run events with larger crowd sizes and reduced social the Tain highland gathering again, it will be my pleasure distancing and evaluate the outcomes. The road map to buy her a glass of our excellent local beverage called sets out the planned caps on capacity for events when Glenmorangie. they reopen at stage 3, but the findings will come from all different sectors and settings to determine a consistent Question put and agreed to. approach to lifting the restrictions when the time is Resolved, right. That this House has considered Government-backed insurance I am sure I speak for all of us when I say that I cannot for live events. wait to have our theatre, sport, festivals, live music venues and events open as soon as possible. As the 10.38 am Chancellor said in his Budget speech, the Government Sitting suspended. 313WH 23 MARCH 2021 Smoke-free Society by 2030 314WH

Smoke-free Society by 2030 In addition, statistics from the Office for National Statistics show that intention to quit has gone down 11 am almost year on year since 2015. Analysis by Cancer Research UK indicates that the Government are not on Andrew Rosindell (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members track to meet the new smoke-free 2030 target. In fact, that there have been some changes to normal practice in its modelling predicts that adult smoking prevalence in order to support the new hybrid arrangements. I remind England will not reach 5% until 2037. The pace of hon. Members participating virtually that they are visible change needs to be around 40% faster than projected to at all times to each other and to us here in the Boothroyd deliver the ambitious target, so now is the time to act. It Room. If Members attending virtually have any technical is time to make use of our newly restored policy making problems, they should email the Westminster Hall Clerks. freedoms to make a difference with the forthcoming Members attending physically should clean their spaces tobacco control plan. before they use them and as they leave the room. The Minister’s predecessor closed the last Westminster Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con) [V]: I beg to Hall debate on this issue by saying: move, “We will continue to be driven by the evidence.”—[Official That this House has considered reduced-risk smoking products Report, 26 June 2019; Vol. 662, c. 335WH.] and proposals for a smoke-free society by 2030. I am sure that approach is something that the Minister It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, will be happy to endorse now, and it is something that I Mr Rosindell, albeit from such a long distance. I am believe will set us on the right course to make the pleased to see the Minister there too. At the outset, I difference. Making a difference starts, first, with declare my interest as an honorary life fellow of Cancer understanding that the fundamental problem with smoking Research UK. is the smoke—the combustion. Acknowledging that This is not the first occasion on which I have raised should be the core principle under which we regulate. the need to pursue the goal of a smoke-free society. I While it will always remain the case that smokers should raised it previously in a Westminster Hall debate in aim to quit completely, if they are unable to do so, there 2019. I continue to pursue this issue because the ills of are now many non-combustible alternatives that they smoking continue to persist and they will continue to can try, which will be less harmful to them. trouble our society for many years to come unless we Secondly, making a difference means that we cannot take action now. take our foot off the pedal in introducing further barriers Today, I speak with hope. This year, we have an to cigarettes and other combustible tobacco products. I opportunity that we must embrace. Our exit from the am not generally an advocate for high taxes, but I can European Union has provided us with the opportunity see the benefit of using taxation to increase the price to take control of our own policy to improve public gap between combustible and non-combustible products. health, to contribute to the Government’s levelling-up We must do more to secure our borders to ensure that agenda and to enhance the United Kingdom’s reputation smugglers from abroad do not profit from health inequalities as a world leader on tobacco harm reduction. The here. Minister’sDepartment is currently reviewing the regulations Thirdly, and most importantly, making a difference that have in recent years transposed the EU’s tobacco means helping smokers who cannot quit smoking to products directive into UK law and the Minister has change to something that is less harmful for them than committed to producing a new tobacco control plan cigarettes—products that are not combustible. The this summer. I hope that in her remarks today she will forthcoming tobacco control plan gives us the opportunity set out what progress the Department has made in the to take a fresh look at the new products and innovations process and confirm the plan’s anticipated publication in the UK, as well as those that we could have now that date. we have left the European Union. To make the most of Since the last Westminster Hall debate that I secured that range of products in a sensible and controlled way on this issue in June 2019, the Government have committed calls for the creation of a new, reduced-risk smoking to delivering a smoke-free society by 2030. There is no products category, to provide a robust regulatory time to waste, and nor should we waste the opportunities framework. that we have this year. The needs of the 7 million people It is important that products be regulated and controlled in the UK who, sadly, still smoke must remain at the to ensure that they are used in the right way, but they forefront of our minds. If my right hon. Friend the will not be sufficiently effective if we do not get the Chancellor is listening, I am sure he will be pleased to information about them out to smokers. We have made hear, especially in these difficult times, that nothing I great progress on tobacco harm reduction over recent propose this morning will require any expenditure by years, but both those elements—regulation and Her Majesty’s Treasury. information—should be addressed if we are to give It should, of course, go without saying that smoking ourselves the best chance of reaching the smoke-free kills. While the number of people who smoke has fallen 2030 goal. in recent years, the problem is still real, and it is a We have seen great results from e-cigarettes, and problem that reflects inequalities. We might not all see Public Health England recently found that in every it in our constituencies, but there are large parts of region of England quit rates involving a vaping product the country where smoking rates remain troublingly were higher than those for any other method. However, high. The health costs of tobacco consumption fall while they have worked for many smokers, e-cigarettes disproportionately on the poor,ethnic minorities and those are not a panacea. In fact, nearly half the smokers in suffering from mental health conditions. Disadvantaged Britain have tried vaping, but did not continue. Now the communities across the country are being left behind number of vapers is falling, which should be a cause for and the inequalities gap is getting worse. concern for us all. 315WH Smoke-free Society by 203023 MARCH 2021 Smoke-free Society by 2030 316WH

[Mr David Jones] When we have attended the COP before, we have had to conform to the views of the EU grouping. This year, There are two measures that the Government can we will be attending, albeit perhaps only virtually, in take to address the issue.The first concerns communications. our own right. This is the opportunity that I urge the Existing communications are not cutting through. When Minister to consider. We have a strong story to tell on it published its annual vaping report last month, PHE said: tobacco harm reduction at home, and we now have the “Thousands more could have quit except for unfounded safety freedom and ability to embrace bold, innovative new fears about e-cigarettes.” policies, such as those I have suggested this morning; so Does the Minister agree that we could do better at will we simply go along to get along at the COP, or will communicating directly and clearly to smokers the harm we do what is right by taking a bold and progressive reduction benefits of e-cigarettes and, indeed, all reduced- stance in favour of tobacco harm reduction and proudly risk alternatives? The Government could, for example, defend our own domestic position? I believe there is allow the use of cigarette pack inserts or even online much that the world can learn from our approach, and I communications as ways to reach smokers directly. therefore urge the Minister to make the tobacco control The second measure concerns the nicotine level in plan one that will help us to deliver a smoke-free 2030, e-cigarettes. The EU imposed a seemingly arbitrary and one that we can showcase to the world later this year. 20 mg per ml limit on e-cigarettes, under its directive. The fact is that many smokers do not find that sufficiently 11.12 am satisfying to lead them to make a permanent switch Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): It is an honour to away from combustible cigarettes. Now that we have the serve under your chairmanship,Mr Rosindell. I congratulate freedom to do so, we should look at setting our own the right hon. Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) on limit at a level that would make the products more the way in which he brought this motion to the House; effective. it is very timely and was very well introduced. I refer E-cigarettes will, however, never be the answer for all hon. Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ smokers. Nicotine pouches, which have been on sale in Financial Interests: I am the chairman of the Gallaher the UK for only a year or so, have rapidly grown in Trust, a job creation and skills development charity in popularity. Around 100,000 people already use them. I my constituency,set up after the last tobacco manufacturing understand that a reason for that is the success of plant sadly closed there some years ago. point-of-sale advertising and the ability to advertise The right hon. Gentleman raised the point that tobacco online. At present the products are not regulated beyond harm reduction is a strong story for the United Kingdom our general consumer protection laws, so they could to tell. That is a very solid line on which the Minister benefit from being part of a sensible framework. should listen and respond. I am sure other Members The use of heated tobacco in the UK continues to will talk about the opportunities of vaping for small grow. Sales increased by 270% in the past year alone. companies, whether they be retail outlets or manufacturing The benefit is that there is still tobacco in the product, companies in the United Kingdom, and for helping to but it is not combustible. As I mentioned in the previous reduce the harm associated with tobacco. That is a debate, 70% of heated tobacco users give up smoking strong piece, and it needs to be looked at. It is challenging, altogether, but at the moment smokers cannot hear because people just want tobacco usage to end. Of about those products, as they can hear about others. course, anyone who has been a smoker knows that it is That is where smokers could benefit even more from just not that simple, and that there have to be harm receiving the targeted information that I mentioned reduction programmes in place. earlier, online or from shopkeepers. I also refer briefly to security and criminality. I have Finally,snus is another tobacco product and is currently encouraged the Government and Her Majesty’s Revenue not legal in the UK owing to a ban imposed by the EU. and Customs to continue to work closely with the In Scandinavian countries such as Sweden, which are companies at the heart of producing these products. exempt from the EU ban, the availability of snus has Whether it is the tobacco manufacturers or spin-off had an enormous positive impact on smoking levels. companies that develop these products, it is important Lifting the ban would show that our policy is driven by that we work with credible, accountable companies that evidence, making the UK the true global leader in can be held to account. tobacco harm reduction. If all these smoke-free products Last year, The House magazine and Dods very kindly were part of the controlled framework, with the same helped to sponsor a programme to put out a report regulations, we would give smokers the best possible called “The Gathering Storm”, published by Japan chance of moving away from cigarettes and we would Tobacco International. It looked at the issues to do with give the country as a whole the best possible chance of criminality around this entire sector and how the criminals achieving a smoke-free 2030. are alive to every opportunity to bite into this, to seize Before concluding, I must touch on the opportunities these opportunities and pollute this area. It is absolutely that Brexit offers us in tobacco harm reduction. Every important that the Government are alert to the two years, we send officials from the Minister’sDepartment opportunities that criminals see and face them down bit to the conference of parties to the World Health by bit. The only way they can do that is in conjunction Organisation’s framework convention on tobacco control, with the large companies that know exactly what they a body that has taken positions that run completely are talking about, that work in and understand this counter to our own. Worryingly, just last month the sector and have an interest in protecting legitimate WHO proposed a ban on vaping. The Minister will trade, not in promoting illegitimate activity. I hope the undoubtedly have noted the remarks of Clive Bates, an Government will put resources in place to assist with that. expert and the former director of the anti-smoking Finally, my comments would not be complete if I did group Action on Smoking and Health, who said that not mention the Northern Ireland protocol. You may that proposal was “irresponsible and bizarre”. ask, Mr Rosindell, “How can you bring that into this 317WH Smoke-free Society by 203023 MARCH 2021 Smoke-free Society by 2030 318WH debate?”Put simply,it is about consumer choice.Companies hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for their have already indicated that they cannot bring to Northern comments. What joins us together is the passion shared Ireland the same products as they can bring to, and across the House. Everyone wants to tackle the harms make in, the United Kingdom. Consumer choice is not of smoking. Smoking kills. available to the consumer in Northern Ireland, whether I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for it be for actual tobacco products or for spin-off vaping Clwyd West that we have a good story to tell and should products. They are not going to be available in Northern not be afraid to tell it. As he is aware, some good work Ireland because of EU regulations pertaining to, and has been done over the past couple of decades to drive chaining down, one part of this United Kingdom. It is a smoking rates down. Rates are now at their lowest level, disgrace. My message to the Government after every at just over 13% in England. It is one of the public meeting I have with them is to please fix the protocol—fix health success stories. However, we have to do more. We it and fix it fast, because it is permeating every aspect of cannot be complacent. There is wide variation, and life in Northern Ireland. smoking rates remain too high in certain areas of the country. 11.17 am Like my right hon. Friend, I would look specifically Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con): I will be very brief, at the levelling-up agenda in deprived areas, among the Mr Rosindell. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community, and Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) on securing this among pregnant women and people with mental health debate and on his excellent speech. I fear that it is going conditions. Our focus on driving down rates across the to be incredibly difficult to achieve a smoke-free society country must be relentless. We must ensure that they are by 2030. It could be achievable, however, if we embraced levelled where they are lowest and that no community vaping far more than we do at present and if we gets left behind. The differential between good and promoted those products as being 95% risk free, as poor areas is almost 10 times greater. stated by Public Health England, and as being substantially Fantastic work is being done to tackle health inequalities safer than smoking. It is not risk free and people who in different areas, including recently through the NHS do not smoke should not vape, but it is absolutely right long-term plan with regard to smoking in pregnancy. Its that we encourage smokers to take up vaping. There are commitment to the maternity transformation fund has a variety of different, innovative ways to do that, including providedadditionaltrainingtogivemidwivestheknowledge, my right hon. Friend’s suggestion of inserting in cigarette skills and confidence to offer brief advice to women packets a card encouraging the smoker to use a particular during antenatal appointments, and upskilled practitioners vaping product. to deliver stop- smoking interventions to those who Brexit gives us the opportunity to ensure that vaping need help. regulations pertain to vaping. That is not the case at present: they are lumped together with tobacco products, Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): The Minister has spoken which creates and radiates the fear that vaping is as about having a good story to tell. Is not the take-up of dangerous as smoking. Too many people in this country vaping in this country a good story? She will know that feel that there are greater dangers with vaping than we have a very active all-party parliamentary group on actually is the case. Through Government changes to vaping. We are about to send her a report—it is currently regulations, we can change that and ensure that people in draft form—relating to the WHO conference of the who smoke are made aware of the comparative benefits parties in November. We took evidence and I wonder of vaping. Post Brexit, there is a great opportunity to whether she agrees that the WHO’s negative view of ensure that that happens. vaping has been counterproductive. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) said in 11.18 am his excellent speech, its attitude is partly responsible for Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I just want to add the downturn in the number of people vaping. Given a few comments. It is all very well to say that smokers the level of interest in this debate, does the Minister should transfer from cigarettes to vaping, but I have a think we ought to have a longer debate in order to concern. Although I am encouraged that the number of consider these issues more fully? people quitting cigarettes and turning to vaping products shows that they are more successful than nicotine- Jo Churchill: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. replacement therapy, does the Minister agree that we Given that this is a 30-minute debate and there is a lot need to ensure that people are not, to use an Ulsterism, of interest in it, I agree that a longer debate might allow jumping from the frying pan into the fire? Does she us to explore these things. I will comment on COP and believe that this has been looked at robustly enough to the variety of products. We need to use everything in reach a determination? If cigarettes are harmful, we our armoury to encourage people to quit smoking. have to be absolutely sure that vaping is safe as an We need to help people give up. We are working to alternative. ensure that no communities are left behind, as part of the bold ambition to be smoke-free in England by 2030. 11.19 am I listened carefully to my right hon. Friend the Member The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health for Clwyd West talk about how we pack a punch in this and Social Care (Jo Churchill): It is a pleasure to serve area, but things will need to be evidence led. We will set under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell. I thank my out how we will deliver this later in the year, when we right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) publish the new tobacco control plan for England in the for securing the debate, and I am grateful to the hon. summer. He asked me to reconfirm that we are on track Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley), my hon. Friend for doing that, and I agree with him that it is a stretch to the Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) and the reach our target by 2030. 319WH Smoke-free Society by 203023 MARCH 2021 Smoke-free Society by 2030 320WH

[Jo Churchill] No assessment has yet been made of the safety of tobacco-free nicotine pouches. These products are not We know that the best thing a smoker can do is quit covered under the tobacco regulatory regulations, but altogether. Covid-19 has brought into clearer focus the rather the General Product Safety Regulations 2005, need for us to care for our health. PHE has issued and the current numbers are from industry and therefore guidance on the impact of covid-19 on vaping and will need a degree of validation. smoking, and we know that if people smoke, they have There are no plans to go further on snus at the an increased risk of contracting a respiratory infection. moment because all tobacco products can cause harm. With covid-19, symptoms can be more severe if people However, we are currently undertaking a post- smoke, but the evidence base is mixed. implementation review on the Tobacco and Related As I have said, the best thing people can do to Products Regulations 2016 and this is an opportunity improve their health is to quit. However, it remains the for people to feed in and present new evidence for the goal of the Government to maximise the public health Department to consider. opportunities presented by e-cigarettes to reduce smoking. Non-nicotine vapes are regulated under the General UK-regulated e-cigarettes are far less harmful than Product Safety Regulations 2005, and we will review smoking, but I reiterate that they are not risk free, feedback from the post-implementation review if this which I think plays to the comments made by the hon. area needs to be strengthened, including if the products Member for Strangford. are a health concern. We have paused a further evidence Research shows that e-cigarettes are effective in helping review due to the impact of covid on resources. However, some smokers to quit, and therefore we need to support we are looking for people to come forward, and Public them. We will continue to discourage non-smokers from Health England will publish its final evidence review, using them, monitor youth uptake and consider tougher including a chapter on heated tobacco, later this year. regulatory proposals if we see an increase in youth rates. The evidence suggests that these products still pose a There are about 3 million people currently using risk to users, and, compared with e-cigarettes, we know e-cigarettes in Great Britain. Half of those have quit far less about them. As such, we will be following the smoking, which indicates that the other half are using principle of ensuring that we have a full evidence base. them as part of a strategy. As my right hon. Friend the Under the Northern Ireland protocol, which the hon. Member for Clwyd West said, and others have alluded Member for North Antrim referred to, things are in to, it is not a panacea. The UK’s approach to the equilibrium at the moment. There is no difference. regulation of e-cigarettes has been, and will remain, However,under the protocol, Northern Ireland is required pragmatic and evidence based. The current regulatory to adhere to the EU’s tobacco products directive. framework aims to reduce the risk of harm to children, We will work in collaboration with the devolved protect against the re-normalisation of tobacco use, Administrations on matters that are reserved, and, along provide assurance on safety for users, and provide legal with that firm evidence, and in the interests of public certainty for businesses. We are committed to ensuring health, put that forward. that our regulatory framework enables this to continue As part of the regulatory review, the Government are but does not encourage non-smokers and young people undertaking post-implementation reviews. These will to start taking up the habit. assess whether the regulations are meeting their objectives, We made a commitment through the 2017 tobacco and if there are gaps that need to be addressed. We have control plan to monitor the safety, uptake and impact held a public consultation and we will review the responses. of the effectiveness of e-cigarettes and other novel The UK is a global leader and was very grateful to nicotine delivery systems—and we have done just that. receive an award from the WHO for being instrumental Public Health England has published a series of evidence in helping lower middle-income countries to tackle tobacco reviews which further our understanding of their use. We are determined to tackle smoking and health effectiveness in helping smokers to quit. The latest inequalities both at home and abroad. We will take evidence review was published last month. targeted action to support communities where rates In our future tobacco control plan, we will consider may remain high. I would like to extend my thanks to further research on other emerging nicotine products hon. Members for debating this important subject. that have the potential to help people quit—because Question put and agreed to. there is no such thing as a safe tobacco product and all tobacco is harmful, including smokeless tobacco and 11.30 am other tobacco products that we have discussed today. Sitting suspended. 321WH 23 MARCH 2021 Outer London Congestion Charge 322WH

Outer London Congestion Charge Is the claiming that Londoners do not drive on motorways? Of course they do, and of course those have to be paid for. It is as if the Mayor of London [Ms CHRISTINA REES in the Chair] is saying, with this proposal, “Give me even more money, or look what I can do. I can ruin you. I can hit you 2.30 pm financially and make you pay if I don’t get my way.” That is effectively what the Mayor of London is saying. Christina Rees (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members This proposal sends out the clear message that far from that there have been some changes to normal practice in London being open, as the Mayor claims, it will be very order to support the new hybrid arrangements. much closed for motorists entering the capital. Timings of debates have been amended to allow It is laudable for any mayor to lobby for more funding, technical arrangements to be made for the next debate. and I fully understand why Sadiq Khan wants to raise There will also be suspensions between each debate. I more finances. Every mayor around the country is trying remind Members participating physically and virtually to do the same thing, but it should not be attempted on that they must arrive for the start of debates in Westminster the back of blackmail that says, “Give me money, or I Hall. Members are expected to remain for the entire debate. will ruin you.” He is saying, “I will charge you to visit I must also remind Members participating virtually that loved ones. I will charge you to drop somebody off at they will remain visible at all times, both to each other the local railway station. I will charge you to use London’s and to us in the Boothroyd Room. If Members attending small businesses, and I will charge you just for driving virtually have any technical problems, they should email out of your road.” That is not laudable; it is an abuse of the Westminster Hall Clerk’s email address. Members power. attending physically should clean their spaces before they use them and as they leave the room. I would also The border around London is not neat, and does not like to remind Members that Mr Speaker has stated that run along major routes. Instead, it straddles residential masks should be worn in Westminster Hall. roads. In Dartford, for example, there are residential roads that are located in Kent and it is not possible to 2.31 pm drive out of them without entering the London Borough of Bexley. We have a number of roads like that and there Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con): I beg to move, are also roads where the border literally goes down the That this House has considered the proposal for an outer middle of the road, so someone drives out of the road London congestion charge. in Kent and back into it in London. We have a park It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, home situated in Kent, and the only exit from it is in the Ms Rees. I am very grateful to have secured the debate. London Borough of Bexley. Each of those journeys by The Mayor of London’s proposal to charge drivers to a motorist would, of course, incur the proposed charge. enter would have a catastrophic impact Many of my constituents would therefore face paying on places like Dartford and all the areas surrounding at least £3.50 a day just to drive out of their own roads. London. It would also have a detrimental impact on The proposal is for the charge to apply seven days outer London boroughs. Businesses located in outer a week, so hundreds of my constituents will pay over London boroughs would suffer from people being reluctant £1,200 a year just to be able to drive out of the road where to travel the—often short—distance across the border they live: £1,200 a year just to get out of the house. For to use that particular business. thousands of others, it would mean a £3.50 charge just That would have an impact on drycleaners, pubs, to visit loved ones, to drop a child off at school, to visit takeaways, shops, hairdressers and more. Those are the a hospital, or to go to work. So many frontline workers exact same businesses that have been hardest hit as a in London live in neighbouring counties. These are the consequence of covid. The Mayor of London’s financial people who keep London functioning. They too will be stability plan, which was published in January, proposes hit with this charge. a seven-days-a-week charge of £3.50 for all motorists I would argue that integration along the border between using a vehicle registered outside Greater London, rising Kent and London is currently excellent, but the Mayor to £5.50 for the most polluting vehicles. of London wants to change that. He wants to levy a charge Sadiq Khan is looking at building a literal financial on people, yet he is unaccountable to those people. The wall between London and its neighbours. The proposal people who would have to pay the daily charge cannot would divide communities and set London against all vote him out or do anything to stop the charge, and he others. It is a border tax that has been called various knows it. It is taxation without representation, taxation things: Checkpoint Chigwell, Labour’s Dartford car without accountability, and it needs to be stopped. tax, and many other things that are unrepeatable in this Dartford is not part of London. We are proud of our Chamber. Kentish heritage. Yet many people who are now More than 26,000 people have signed a petition against Dartfordians used to live in London. Many of us commute Labour’s Dartford car tax, and I pay tribute to Tom Oliver to London—obviously, I am one of those people. There and Kyle Stealey in my constituency who have organised is a good relationship with London and with the that. The Mayor of London claims he needs to do this neighbouring counties, but the Mayor of London wants to offset the fact that Londoners cannot keep the to change that. He wants to set London against its £500 million per year they pay in road tax. However, no neighbours, but in doing so he damages not just the people other area gets to keep the road tax they pay either. who live outside London, but the people who live in Although it is true that Highways England does not London. own a great number of roads in London, it does not Businesses in outer London will see so many of their have many roads in some other areas too; London is customers put off spending money at their establishments not alone in that. because it will be too expensive to travel to them. No 323WH Outer London Congestion Charge23 MARCH 2021 Outer London Congestion Charge 324WH

[Gareth Johnson] Please will the Minister ask my old friend the Mayor to think again on this? It will cause massive inconvenience wonder YouGov found that the majority of Londoners— and cost huge amounts of money to lots of people here, Londoners—oppose the proposed charge. It is claimed who are just trying to live their lives and do their jobs. that the opposition to the proposal is timed to marry up with the London mayoral elections.Actually,the proposal’s 2.43 pm timing is completely down to the Mayor of London. He (Reigate) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure to decided when to announce the proposal; he is responsible serve under your chairmanship. Ms Rees. I apologise for the timing and he published it in a document just that I have not been able to log in in the usual manner, the month before last. So it is hardly surprising that we so I am using my telephone. Sorry for the sub-optimal are having the debate at this time. It is hardly surprising reception. that, come March, we are now talking about the issue. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Gravesham If the proposal goes ahead, it will have the most (), I am grateful to my hon. Friend the profound impact on Dartford of any governmental Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) for raising this action. It will be taken by somebody who Dartfordians issue, and for the leadership he has shown in the strength have absolutely no control over. The London Mayor of the petition that has raised, in Dartford alone, more knows that the ring of seats around London, with the than 26,000 signatures, as I understand it. exception of Slough, are Conservative. He also knows All I want to do is echo the points my two hon. Friends that, generally, outer London areas—there are some have made. I particularly emphasise the divisive nature exceptions—are more likely to vote Conservative than of the charge for the community I represent. Banstead, inner London seats. He knows who he is hitting with Chipstead, Hooley, Netherne and Woodmansterne tend this idea. It is the most divisive issue ever conceived by a not to look to the centre of the Borough of Reigate and London Mayor and it needs to be stopped. It will have a Banstead, to the towns of Redhill and Reigate. Quite profound impact, not just on the counties around London, naturally,they tend to look north, to Sutton and Croydon. but on the outer London boroughs. It is an abuse of Indeed, many people in that part of the constituency power and it needs to end. have grown up with their family and work being located in those boroughs, and have then moved out as time and Christina Rees (in the Chair): I intend to call the opportunity have presented themselves, to get out of Opposition spokesperson at 3.38 pm at the latest. If the centre of Sutton or Croydon. However, their lives speakers confine themselves to seven minutes or less, we and connections very much remain across the London should get everyone in. I call Adam Holloway. boundary. I have received letters from people whose children’s schools or jobs are affected. In one family, the 2.40 pm mother has to cross the boundary every day to take children to school and the father has to cross it every Adam Holloway (Gravesham) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure day to go to his job in in Wallington. to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Rees. I thank my People have tended to look to those town centres to hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) shop, or their GP, pharmacy or dentist may be there, for a superb speech. My constituency is neighbouring and given the pattern of people’s lives many of their his. Although we do not have as extreme a situation, his relatives are there as well. One family has written to me, point that the borders of London are not neat is very having now been alerted to this issue. It is not a charge apt. That really does reflect the position of many of my of £3.50 for the odd day of the year; it is £22.50 every constituents. I will read a couple of quotes from emails week for both of them. So it is in the order of nearly I have received: £45 for them every week, which is an enormous cost to “I have elderly grandparents who reside within Greater London… put on people’s lives, simply because they suddenly find I often go to their aid, bringing shopping or medication or (before themselves adjacent to a boundary. This measure will covid) visiting to keep them company.” do profound long-term damage to the relationships of Another says: the people who find themselves living just outside the “I have relatives in the London Borough of Bexley. I also visit London boundary and it will also do grave damage to my mother’s grave in Hither Green.” the businesses just inside the Greater London boundary that are used by those people. Another asks: I urge the Mayor not to proceed down this road and I “Would it also be possible for Adam— urge my hon. Friend the Minister to ensure that he does that’s me— not do so. This is a singularly bad idea. I realise that the to talk to Kent County Council to charge London motorists to Mayor is in deep trouble because of the nature of the drive on Kent roads?” Budget, but that should not be visited in this reckless As I said, although we do not have the same situation way on those people who live in the communities as my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford, we have neighbouring Greater London. large numbers of people who work in hospitals and 2.47 pm travel to large retail in Bexley. We have plenty of people who, as their families have expanded, have moved out of (Orpington) (Con): It is a pleasure to south London into towns such as Gravesend. We have serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Ms Rees. large numbers of building contractors who have no choice I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford but to drive their vans into town. Many of my neighbours (Gareth Johnson) for securing this timely and important work in the hospitality industry and have suffered so debate, and I speak in it as a Member whose constituency badly commercially over the past few months. They is right on the edge of outer London, just inside the drive in and out because they have antisocial hours. boundary. 325WH Outer London Congestion Charge23 MARCH 2021 Outer London Congestion Charge 326WH

The proposal by Sadiq Khan to impose an outer relative to schools in Kent and Surrey, or those who London boundary tax is one of the silliest ideas that he have public transport close by. This potentially would has come up with in the past five years. Some of his result in some families not being able to afford to bring defenders have said that it is about improving air quality, their children into school, some of whom are deemed but that is nonsense. This proposal has absolutely nothing vulnerable children.” to do with improving air quality. Finally, I had a letter unprompted from another Transport for London knows where the bad air is in constituent. It is worth quoting this at length: “I am a London; indeed, it has published the analysis it made teacher. I have taught in Orpington for 22 years. This when considering the creation of the -low emission charge will affect me and other workers every single day. zone some years ago and it is still available for anyone This charge might be appropriate for inner London, who wishes to see it. That analysis is in the form of a where there are alternative means of transport, but that heat map, which shows the bad areas for air quality is not true here. We do not have a good, reliable bus inside Greater London. Unsurprisingly, they are around service. Wedo not have the tube. With a newly unemployed central London, around Heathrow airport and on some husband and a family, this is a cost I just can’t bear and of the trunk roads into and out of London. Where the one that is grossly unfair, given the lack of available bad air demonstrably is not is in outer London. alternative public transport. I doubt Orpington High This proposal is, purely and simply, a revenue-raising Street and the Nugent retail park will survive if shoppers exercise. Since the Mayor will aim it squarely at people from Swanley, Dartford and other surrounding areas who do not live inside Greater London and who therefore put off by the charge cease to come.” have no say or vote in the matter, it is—as my hon. Sadiq Khan has been Mayor of London for five years, Friend the Member for Dartford has said—effectively and for most of that time City Hall has been an “taxation without representation”. There is a huge achievement-free zone. There has been lots of virtue democratic deficit here. signalling, a good deal of showboating, and lots of finger However, just because the people forced to pay this pointing and blame shifting, but in terms of the core charge do not live in Greater London does not mean deliverables—building houses, running a transport system that it will not have an impact on those who do live and keeping people safe—the past five years have been inside Greater London. As other hon. Members have marked by ignominious failure. One thing that he has said, this proposal would deliver a hammer blow to said has struck a chord, however. His “London is open” outer London’s businesses. They rely on suppliers and slogan is a sentiment that previously united Londoners customers driving in from outside the local area to shop and the surrounding areas, but introducing such a proposal and work, and this measure would jeopardise people’s shows how empty that slogan is. London is not open if livelihoods and our recovery from the pandemic. people are taxed whenever they attempt to enter it. It is not just those working in or using our local There is no denying that under Sadiq Khan’sleadership, businesses who will be impacted. Those who provide TfL’s debt has risen to record levels, key infrastructure our public services will also be hit; 51% of Metropolitan projects have been delayed or cancelled, the delivery of police officers and 52% of London firefighters live Crossrail has been bungled, and hundreds of millions outside the Greater London boundary. They work shifts of pounds of potential income have been thrown away and often have to drive to work, as do almost 3,000—more on pet projects. It is simply not acceptable for him to than one in five—of the employees of my local NHS trust. look to recover his losses by imposing a damaging A few weeks ago, I wrote to headteachers in all the border tax. He should drop this silly proposal immediately. schools in my Orpington constituency, to seek their If he refuses, I will call on the Government, in common views on the charge and to find out how many of their with colleagues, to remove his power to impose it. staff and pupils would be impacted by it. A great many have written back to me, all of them expressing serious concerns about the detrimental impact it would have. A 2.53 pm common concern has been the impact it would have on teacher recruitment and retention. One headteacher Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure commented: “For us as a school this equates to 40% of to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Rees. I join our teaching and leadership staff and 33% of our others in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member administrative staff. To penalise staff by imposing a for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) on initiating a much-needed £3.50 daily charge would undoubtedly add financial debate on the proposed outer London tax. I congratulate pressure to individuals, but would also negatively affect my hon. Friend the Member for Orpington (Gareth Bacon) recruitment from Greater London boroughs such as on laying out London MPs’ concerns about the impact Bromley. I honestly believe that if this proposal is to go of any proposed tax being imposed in such a way. ahead, it will have a profound effect on recruiting and Weshould be clear about why the tax is being proposed. retaining staff in Greater London boroughs. Some of It is not to clean up the air in London or to make these staff are young, who took advantage of relatively travelling around London any easier—far from it. It has lower housing costs to purchase outside the Greater come as a direct result of the Mayor of London’s failure London area. For them and others, this additional daily to control TfL’s spending and to balance its books. It is cost will be particularly hard. There is no serious public fair to say that TfL’s finances have of course dropped as transport alternative to use, and therefore this will be a a result of covid. When TfL’s finances are dependent on severe blow to those who are impacted. It will feel like a fares income, which has fallen by 90%, gaps emerge. It is tax on work.” also fair that the Government have provided grants to Another observed: “For our full-time staff the additional enable TfL to continue during the pandemic. As we cost will be like a salary reduction of £1,000 per annum. come out of the pandemic, we will then have to look at This will make us less competitive in terms of recruitment what happens going forward. 327WH Outer London Congestion Charge23 MARCH 2021 Outer London Congestion Charge 328WH

[Bob Blackman] As we have heard, the Labour Mayor of London’s plans to charge people to enter the Greater London I and most of my constituents live on the outskirts of area by car would be a disaster felt both by those who London, and we have enjoyed a position whereby waves live just outside the boundary and those who live in of immigration have taken place from inner London, to communities such as mine, just within it. The Greater the suburbs and beyond, so families are stretched out London boundary is not a great and obvious spectacle. across the south-east of England. The reality is that London is not Las Vegas; there are not roads covering those families want to come together, and not only for great expanses of nothingness. Motorists do not go family celebrations but for jobs, schooling and other through deserts or deserted countryside and suddenly opportunities to get together, and equally for business. drive up to some great metropolis—suddenly, there they The harsh reality is that over the past few years, are; they have arrived in London. I am afraid that businesses in the outer London areas have tended to crossing the border is, frankly, quite underwhelming. migrate outside Greater London and set up around the Very few people would know or care that they have M25. Those businesses have already migrated. If an crossed an arbitrary line that was drawn in 1965. outer London tax were to be introduced on crossing the Carshalton and Wallington sits on the border with Greater London area boundary, the impact would be to Surrey. The two roads leading directly out of my encourage even more businesses currently based in outer constituency into places such as Woodmansterne and London to transfer out of London completely. That Banstead, and beyond into Reigate, Redhill and Epsom, would have a knock-on effect on business rates income, are not great thoroughfares. There is nothing about where business rates continue, and on the number of them that signals that some great line has been crossed. people coming into London in any case to work. So Indeed, Carshalton Road to the south is fairly narrow, clearly that would have an impact. with a few houses dotted along the way down to There is another impact. I have Stanmore station in Woodmansterne, with home on one side of the border my constituency, which is the terminus of the Jubilee and a country lane on the other. It is fairly unassuming. line, and more than 350 vehicles from all over the area Under the Mayor of London’s plans, that quiet little use the station car park on a daily basis. Drivers from spot would suddenly become some kind of outer London Bushey, and other parts of outer London start checkpoint or toll road. Residents living just on the their journeys into central London from the station. As wrong side of the line would be charged up to £5.50 a we know, during the pandemic the view has been that day for driving across it. While I am on the subject people should work from home where possible, and I of the charge, whether we are talking about £3.50 or predict that in future more people will work from home £5.50 is a moot point, frankly. TfL’s estimate is that up more often. Preventing people driving to the terminus to 82% of the expected revenue would be lost in the of the tube network will reduce TfL’s finances still further overhead and implementation, so there is likely to be as we emerge from the pandemic. It is a short-sighted pressure to increase the charge from day one in order to approach. There are, of course, termini outside the make the scheme worthwhile. Greater London area. The likelihood is that people will drive to those areas in order to get on the tube network Although residents living inside the boundary, such and get into central London if they have to, so this is a as my constituents, might not be the ones facing the self-defeating proposition. charge, the impact could be equally damaging, not least on family life, as many hon. Friends have said. Like We also have those who come to celebrate with their many families, my dad and several of my relatives live relatives and their religious communities, for example at just outside the Greater London boundary. Suddenly, festival times. They would all be disadvantaged—charged they will be charged for crossing the boundary to come —for the privilege of driving their car into the outskirts and visit. We also need to think about families who rely of London. All in all, this is a bad idea and one that on another family member for childcare, who could be needs to be roundly defeated. charged up to £1,000 a year. That is not to mention the Of course, the suggestion is that the Mayor of London hit that it could have on the economy and our public would love to have the vehicle excise duty retained in services. As we heard from my hon. Friend the Member London. Just imagine if the west midlands, the north-west for Orpington (Gareth Bacon), 51% of Metropolitan of England or any other part of the country said the police officers live outside London. Who on earth would same thing. Would we then have taxes for London drivers pay to cross the border to go shopping in constituencies driving outside London, and taxes for those driving such as mine when they could look elsewhere in Surrey into London? It would eventually end up as a cash cow without being charged at all? for local authorities. It would not advantage anyone in One of the issues that this proposal could end up relation to improving air quality or connectivity. having the greatest impact on is health. It is fantastic It is a good idea to have this debate and I hope that news that the Government have given the go-ahead to a the proposal will be dismissed. I hope that the Minister £500 million investment to improve Epsom and St Helier will make it clear in her response that the Government University Hospitals, and to build a new third hospital will not allow this tax to be introduced under any in Sutton, which will benefit patients not just from circumstances. Sutton and Merton but from Surrey. However, patients, NHS staff and visitors coming to the new Sutton hospital 2.59 pm from Surrey would face a daily charge to cross the Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con) boundary. It is no good saying that people will find [V]: It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, alternative methods of transport. Public transport between Ms Rees. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member outer London and the home counties is notoriously for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) on securing this important poor, because TfL and the county councils do not have debate. good working relationships with one another. Bus services 329WH Outer London Congestion Charge23 MARCH 2021 Outer London Congestion Charge 330WH from Sutton into Surrey are not nearly frequent enough, He reduced TfL’s operating deficit by 71% and increased and there is absolutely no discussion of funds being its cash balance by 13%, ensuring that it was in a strong used to address that. financial position prior to the pandemic. That is despite There is another weakness shown up in the plans. As the fact that London was one of the only major cities in my hon. Friend the Member for Orpington pointed out, the world without a Government grant for day-to-day this is purely a money-making scheme; it is not a green transport operation. For instance, Madrid gets 47% of initiative. The idea came from a financial sustainability its operating income from national and regional subsidies; plan, not an environmental policy announcement. Even Singapore gets 56% from Government grants; and Paris if people could afford to go on to a purely electric vehicle, gets 16%. As with all the world’s major cities, London’s they would not escape the charge. As many colleagues transport network is vital for key workers and business. have said, the Mayor of London has said that he will It has kept our NHS workers going into work, it has kept drop the idea if he can retain the £500 million of vehicle supermarkets staffed, and it has kept our city moving. excise duty. That demonstrates once again that this is The pandemic has had the same devastating effect on about money, not the environment. TfL’s finances as it has had on the failing privatised rail The policy has generated a lot of concern from my companies, yet the Government immediately bailed out constituents. The outer London boundary charge would those companies, handing out 18-month support packages hit families, the economy and our public services, and to keep rail moving, with next to no strings attached. would punish not just Londoners this time but those The same was not done for London, and there is simply who live just outside the capital too. I am really pleased no reason why that could not have happened. The Mayor that our Conservative candidate, has asked the Government to consider another option Neil Garratt, has been supporting Shaun Bailey in for funding London’s transport: to let London keep the opposing this move. I urge the Minister to do all she can £500 million in annual vehicle excise duty, which is spent to ensure that the Mayor scraps the plan and does not almost exclusively outside London, but the Government punish Londoners for the cost of Khan. will not countenance that. Because of the lack of any alternative option, Mayor Christina Rees (in the Chair): I am going to call three Khan is proposing a Greater London boundary charge further Back-Bench speakers—Ruth Cadbury, Matthew for non-residents, which would apply only to vehicles Offord and Wes Streeting—before moving on to the registered outside Greater London that are driven into Opposition spokesperson. the capital. The charge would apply only once a day, when vehicles are driven across the Greater London boundary, 3.4 pm and Londoners would not pay. A thorough public Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab) [V]: It consultation process and impact assessment would be is a great pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Rees. required before any charge could be introduced. This We are here today because of the failure to give Transport would take at least two years, meaning that any new for London the long-term support it needs to keep charge would not be levied until after the capital’s London’s public transport financially viable. If it cannot recovery from the pandemic. survive financially, public transport in London will grind I accept that this proposal is not ideal and that it is to a halt, and frankly so will London. The Government’s quite a crude measure, but it is better than the impact of failure to support the finances is yet another sign that public transport in London grinding to a halt; an they are ignoring both the needs of hard-working impact that would be felt not only by all Londoners, but Londoners and the role that London plays in the UK by commuters from the constituencies of the hon. Members economy. who have already spoken. London does not get any From scrapping the Government grants in 2015, to income from drivers from outside London who drive trying to scrap free travel for under-18s last year, refusing into the city. That is despite 1.3 million vehicle trips to devolve train travel to London because the then being made every weekday from outside London into Transport Secretary did not want it in “the clutches of” the capital, which is about 25% of all journeys. Around a Labour Mayor, or sitting on their hands over 1 million of these trips are into outer London alone; Hammersmithbridge,successiveConservativeGovernments 80% of car trips from outside London into the capital have a long record of simply refusing to give the UK’s terminate in outer-London. The majority of those journeys capital city the support it needs to keep moving. are made by vehicles registered to addresses outside the London’s Mayor, Sadiq Khan, has not only been London boundary, which highlights that drivers from standing up for London; he has also been cleaning up outside London greatly benefit from using the capital’s the mess left behind by his predecessor, who is now roads, but without having to contribute to their upkeep. Prime Minister. Because of this funding history created Initial estimates suggest that such a boundary charge by Conservative Governments, TfL is almost totally for non-residents, if levied at £3 50 a day and applied reliant on fare sales. I am proud of Sadiq Khan’s record only to non-Londoners, could reduce the total number on public transport over the past five years. He not only of weekday car trips across the Greater London area by opposed efforts to cut free travel for under-18s, but has 10% to 15%, and the vast majority would switch to worked to introduce new, cleaner, low-emission buses, more sustainable modes of transport. You could charge to cut the deficit at TfL, and to support much-needed more. For example, £5.50 for the more polluting vehicles— action to clean up toxic air pollution, including here in those that do not meet the ultra low emission standard—is my constituency. a possibility, although I am not proposing that. However, By the start of 2020, the Sadiq Khan had fixed the assuming two-way journeys in and out of London, total financial mess left by his predecessor,who had raised fares traffic coming off the road each weekday could reduce in London by 42%. He also inherited a TfL that was trips by around 250,000 to 400,000 vehicles, with the making a loss of £1.5 billion on a like-for-like business. amazing associated air-quality benefits. 331WH Outer London Congestion Charge23 MARCH 2021 Outer London Congestion Charge 332WH

[Ruth Cadbury] not on their ability to pay or as a choice over what they buy. I do not think that this is the progressive taxation In conclusion, all of the UK deserves and should that we heard of in the past when Tony Blair was Prime expect decent transport and decent public transport. Minister. It is simply an opportunity to grab as much The more good quality, affordable public transport money as possible. there is, the less we need to be dependent on the private It also is not fair because it discriminates against car, leaving the space available for those for whom a businesses that are on the other side of a border, rather private car journey is the only option. than competing on an open playing field. They would Public transport has to be paid for somehow. If this be unfairly discriminated against and it is simply not scheme goes ahead, I do not think that asking those fair. Many of my constituents have children who cannot drivers not paying the London council tax precept to afford to buy properties in the Hendon constituency. pay a bit more towards the costs of running London’s That could be attributed to the Mayor and his inability transport network and contribute to the cost of the to construct affordable housing in the area, but that is a congestion and pollution they cause is unreasonable. debate for another day. Many of those people return to their parents, particularly those in the Jewish community, 3.10 pm who visit their parents for the Shabbat meal and will, no Dr (Hendon) (Con) [V]: It is a great doubt, be responsible for paying an additional tax to pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first visit their parents. A tax on visiting friends and relatives time, Ms Rees. It is also a pleasure to follow the hon. is unfair and unacceptable. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury), Those in public services have also been discussed, who is the first Labour Member of Parliament who has and teachers are one group that particularly comes to been willing to speak on this issue on behalf of the my mind. Many of my teachers actually do not live in Mayor of London to give us an alternative perspective. the Hendon constituency because of the prohibitive I thank her for that. cost of housing, and many live outside the London I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford borough of Barnet. These people, who are on starting (Gareth Johnson) for bringing this debate this afternoon. salaries of about £25,000, would find that they have to It is welcome because many of the issues surrounding pay this additional tax just to enter their place of work the and, indeed, the Mayor each day. It is simply not fair. of London are devolved issues. We are often told on the In the past five years, as I have said, the Mayor has Floor of the House of Commons that we cannot discuss consistently said that he wants more money and that he them because they are devolved and that the London wants the Government to pay for it. The fundamental Assembly is the place to scrutinise and hold the Mayor problem with the tube and TfL is that it needs an accountable. We have seen in places such as Scotland, a alternative funding method. The way that it currently one-party state, in Wales, where failure is abject, and operates does not work. We can look at countries such now in London that devolution has simply failed. This as France, with the Paris metro, or Singapore, as has is another example of that failure. First, the whole been mentioned, and indeed Tokyo, and we can recognise system of the GLA is set up so that it is rigged, so that that they have mechanisms in place that allow them to the Labour party has an in-built majority, and secondly, raise revenue to provide services without a disproportionate the budget can never go through on a simple vote. The effect on passengers and without disproportionate costs Mayor always gets their own way. It is good that we on people who do not use those same passenger services. have the opportunity to raise such issues this afternoon. We will continue to oppose this. I would certainly join Ever since the Mayor was elected five years ago, he some of my colleagues in calling on the Government to has persistently and consistently said, “I need more stop the Mayor from implementing such a measure. money,”and has put his hand out to central Government I am pleased to be working with colleagues at the on every single occasion. Threatening to blackmail London borough of Barnet such as Roberto Weeden-Sanz, Londoners, particularly in the outer London boroughs, who is working to oppose this charge. I hope that in has been the way he gets his own way. Seeking to have Roberto we have a GLA representative who actually the vehicle excise duty is just crazy. He says he needs holds the Mayor to account, because thus far we have £500 million a year, but VED is not a hypothecated tax; not had one, and we do need to do that. it is a tax that pays for the whole country. The point has already been made that many Londoners, including myself and other hon. Members here, drive in other 3.16 pm parts of the country. How long is it before we are being Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab) [V]: It is a pleasure asked to pay to drive on motorways outside London? for me to serve under your chairship for the first time, The whole proposal sets a dangerous precedent, and Ms Rees, and I am grateful to the Chairman of Ways it is divisive. It has also been said that this is taxation and Means for enabling my participation in this important without representation for people outside central London. debate this afternoon. I thought the hon. Members It is an open secret that Mr Khan does not care about for Dartford (Gareth Johnson), for Gravesham the outer London boroughs. However, he knows that (Adam Holloway) and for Reigate (Crispin Blunt) struck this border tax would fall entirely upon those who live the right tone in opening the debate. They engaged and work on the periphery of the capital; people who, constructively, if critically in their case, with the proposals as it has been said, traditionally do not vote for the put forward by the Mayor, raising a range of concerns Labour party or, indeed, for the Labour Mayor. These that ought to be taken into account. Indeed, were this are the people who will end up paying for the Mayor’s measure to be put forward by the Mayor as a formal failings and that is simply not fair. Any proposal would proposal, it would be subject to extensive consultation, be a tax based on a person’s geographical location and no doubt taking years, rather than weeks and months. 333WH Outer London Congestion Charge23 MARCH 2021 Outer London Congestion Charge 334WH

Hopefully, if the proposal were to go ahead, it would absolutely defend the right of people in local government take into account some of the specific challenges they or devolved Governments to make decisions on behalf mention regarding smaller communities, access to which of their communities. relies on crossing borders between London and neighbouring counties, and the issue of key workers, for In my remaining minute or so, I want to make a whom there would surely have to be some subsidy. broader appeal, which is a hard thing to achieve when there are elections looming. As MPs across London and I am afraid that London Conservative colleagues the south-east, we need to have a better-quality conversation rather gave the game away with their contributions that about what we do about the finances of Transport for struck a far more party-political tone. Hats off, though, London and the relationship between London and the to the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington south-east and the rest of the country. As my hon. (Elliot Colburn), who managed to remember the name Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth of the Conservative candidate for Mayor of London. I (Ruth Cadbury) mentioned, London is one of the only noticed the other London Conservative colleagues did major cities in the world that does not have any kind of not mention him, presumably because they got the direct operating grant from central Government. We memo that the Conservative party have dropped funding recognise that the Government have provided some and are not really supporting the dead horse in the funding and support to TfL during the pandemic, but two-horse race. we should all recognise that there are significant strings The hon. Member for Orpington (Gareth Bacon) attached. It was a genuine mistake by the previous launched quite a partisan attack on the Mayor of London, Mayor of London to negotiate away TfL’sdirect operating asking what he had achieved. I will not try your patience, grant. That left £700 million out of TfL’s finances—a Chair, by listing all of his achievements, but they include 40% reduction in external funding. That decision ought reducing air pollution by a third, starting to build more to be revisited, if nothing else but for the period in the council homes than any Administration since 1983, years immediately after the pandemic, because it is putting 1,000 more police officers on the streets to replace clearly going to take TfL’s finances some time to recover. those cut by the Conservative Government, and actually investing more in fighting crime than any other Mayor. The final point I want to make by way of appeal—I am sure hon. Members have heard this in debates in the The hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) Chamber and Westminster Hall—is that there is an decided to flog another dead horse, which was this increasing anti-London and the south-east sentiment. ridiculous claim that somehow the reason TfL’s finances Often it is characterised as an anti-London sentiment, are in trouble is because of the Mayor’s administration but I think Members from across the south-east would of the finances. In fact, in his first term as Mayor up to recognise this too. If we are going to level up in this 2020, Sadiq Khan reduced the operating deficit of TfL country, and I absolutely believe that we must and should, by 71% and increased cash reserves by 13%, while at the that means levelling up, not doing down, the beating same time introducing the popular hopper fare and heart of the UK economy, which is London and the managing to freeze fares run by TfL. Contrast that with south-east. If our economy is going to bounce back, it his predecessor, our current Prime Minister, who raised relies on the economic strength of London and the fares by 42%, yet handed over a TfL loss of £1.5 billion south-east. a year. So let us not pretend that the financial challenges facing TfL are not mostly as a direct result of the Of course we want to see prosperity shared, of course pandemic, where we saw costs to TfL of up to £600 million we want to see opportunity enjoyed right across the a month during the height of the pandemic, fare income country, and of course we need to make sure that falling by 90%, and we will see ongoing long-tail challenges communities across the rest of the south, the midlands, as a result of the pandemic. That is really what is going the north and, indeed, Scotland and Wales also receive on here. The ludicrous charge that somehow this is because their fair share of support and investment and are of decisions taken by the current mayor, and that is why equipped to grow their economies in order to make a TfL is facing financial difficulty, is just nonsensical. greater net contribution to UK plc overall. If levelling Weheard from the hon. Member for Hendon (Dr Offord) up for others means levelling down for London and the the bizarre idea that decision making is rigged. It should south-east, however, that would be an extraordinary act not have to be explained to politicians: if they do not of self-harm to the UK’s economy on the part of the like the fact that we have a Labour Mayor and a UK Government. It would be a terrible mistake. Labour-dominated Assembly, they should be better and We have to view some of the challenges in that win elections. Goodness knows from the Opposition national context, recognising that it is not always easy Benches that we are having to learn that lesson the hard when we have a Mayor from one party and a Government way nationally. I am afraid that really is the case: if of a different party, but if we are going to genuinely politicians want to run London, they should win elections build back better,and build back a fairer,more prosperous by putting forward better candidates and making better country in the aftermath of this pandemic, the national arguments. success will be heavily reliant on the success of London I am afraid that appeals to the Minister that if and the south-east. That is why I appeal directly to the London Conservatives or neighbouring Conservatives Minister in the hope that we can have a more constructive do not get their way, the Government should intervene discussion between central Government and the Mayor and stop the decision of the Mayor of London, are not of London, so that we can avoid some of the challenges the way to go. Again, we cannot devolve power. That that colleagues, particularly those from Kent, have raised cuts both ways: there are plenty of places where there this afternoon, but also make sure that we are building are Conservatives in Government, or the SNP north of a stronger and fairer United Kingdom in the aftermath the border, and where they make decisions all the time of the pandemic—driven by London, but with London that we do not necessarily agree with, but I would not being the sole beneficiary. 335WH Outer London Congestion Charge23 MARCH 2021 Outer London Congestion Charge 336WH

3.24 pm if the Government supported the calls from the Mayor of London to allow the capital to keep its share of the Sam Tarry (Ilford South) (Lab): It is a pleasure vehicle excise duty, which is roughly £500 million a year. to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Ms Rees, and I thank the hon. Member for Dartford If we gave TfL the level of revenue in capital funding (Gareth Johnson) for securing this timely debate. I also it had for the first 20 years of its existence, that would thank my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and be a game changer. Let us not forget that it is the Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury), who exposed the real situation current Prime Minister, the previous Mayor of London, and raised genuine concerns about air cleanliness and who negotiated away the direct operating subsidy in air quality, and my neighbour and hon. Friend the 2015. That ensured that the brutal austerity measures of Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), who laid bare the then Chancellor , inflicted on councils the facts of what is really a Tory transport delusion. and the rest of the public sector from 2010, were also applied to Transport for London, literally robbing our I note that the hon. Member for Hendon (Dr Offord) country’s transport Crown jewels in front of the eyes of said that London’s electoral system is rigged in favour Londoners. of Labour. The two terms served there by our current Prime Minister might point in the opposite direction. Let us focus on vehicle excise duty for a moment. Indeed, TfL’s financial woes began under that previous Every year, Londoners pay £500 million in VED, money Mayor of London. Perhaps the issue is that the current which is spent almost exclusively on roads outside of Tory candidate is about to get crushed in the upcoming London. We, therefore, have the nonsensical situation election. whereby road maintenance in London is in effect subsidised by people using public transport. To put that another I would like to thank the hon. Member for Gravesham way, tube users pay for car drivers. I would like to know (Adam Holloway) who showed his fantastic choice of if the Minister agrees that City Hall should be allowed tie and Windsor knot skills. Unfortunately, he shed very to keep the VED. little light on the facts of the debate. The hon. Member for Reigate (Crispin Blunt), as a military man, will surely see this debacle from the Department for Transport Gareth Bacon: Will the hon. Gentleman concede that and the Government for what it is: a political improvised people do not just use one mode of transport? Car explosive device designed to blow up the Mayor of London. drivers also walk, cycle and use public transport, so they pay into the public transport system. The idea that What we have heard today is nothing more than a car drivers are being subsidised by public transport highly politicised attack on the Mayor of London, just users is further undermined by more than a £1 billion of weeks before the mayoral election. Far from being subsidy that Transport for London puts into the bus wasteful, the Mayor has been held over a barrel by the system and the other concessionary fares. Would he Government and forced to consider any and every concede that that statement, which is often used and option left available in order to keep afloat one of the comes directly from City Hall, is misleading and wrong? world’s greatest transport networks. The fact that it has reached this point is frankly shameful. Sam Tarry: I think of lot of Londoners will disagree. I hope we will hear from the Minister whether the Their money is spent elsewhere in the country. As I have Government will finally give a long-term funding said in the Chamber before, it would be good to see an commitment to TfL, or keep stringing it along with agenda not of levelling down London, but genuinely piecemeal funding that serves only to kick the can down levelling up the rest of the country’s transport networks, the road until a meaningful agreement is reached. Perhaps as needs to happen. As I was saying, I would like to hear that is why so many Conservative MPs are here today. whether the Minister agrees that City Hall should be Perhaps they, too, would like to see the Government do allowed to keep that VED, which is paid by Londoners, the right thing, rather than simply using the Government’s so that it can be spent on their transport system. That chronic underfunding of TfL in the middle of a pandemic seems only fair, given that London contributes over as a stick to beat the London Mayor with. £40 billion net to Treasury coffers every single year. I will address some of the fundamentally misleading Does the Minister agree that allowing London to statements that we have heard today. First, the proposal keep its share of VED, so that TfL can invest in London’s for an outer London congestion charge is far from set in roads and public transport services, is actually a very stone. TfL is currently in the process of carrying out an reasonable request, not least given the fact that the early feasibility study; no decisions have yet been taken Conservative party at City Hall has supported that very to implement the charge. If a decision were taken to position in a cross-party letter? Indeed, the hon. Member pursue the idea, clearly an extensive public consultation for Orpington (Gareth Bacon is on the record as having and detailed economic and environmental impact previously supported that position. assessments would have to be undertaken. Gareth Bacon: The letter to which the hon. Gentleman Gareth Johnson: If the London Mayor were to implement refers was written before this proposal was put in place, this outer London congestion charge, would the Labour and this is not an either/or question. The Mayor of party support it? London is throwing up smoke and mirrors by saying that either vehicle excise duty is devolved or there is an Sam Tarry: It is clear at the moment that the key issue outer-London charge. That is not the case at all. As we want to focus on is a long-term funding deal for TfL, chairman of the cross-party budget committee, I was which would mean such options would not need to be obliged to sign that letter because the majority of the considered. That is perhaps something on which we committee said that they wanted vehicle excise duty to could all agree. I again point out that there would be no be devolved, but that was before the Mayor of London need whatsoever for a Greater London boundary charge called for this, so the two things are not related at all. 337WH Outer London Congestion Charge23 MARCH 2021 Outer London Congestion Charge 338WH

Sam Tarry: The point still stands that vehicle excise within the huge area bounded by the north and south duty could be an answer to TfL’s financial woes; or, circular roads would have cost £15, in addition to the indeed, the Government could reach into their pockets expanded ULEZ charge coming in from October this and give our country support, bearing in mind what we year, and all at a time when families and small businesses have said about that £40 billion. When London does are still reeling from the covid crisis. well, the entire country does well. If we can boost our It was clearly totally wrong to suggest hitting Londoners economy and come out of this awful pandemic, London with such an increase in charges, just as we are, hopefully, succeeding will also help millions of other people across recovering from a pandemic. That is why the Mayor of the country to succeed as well. London, Sadiq Khan, was right to reject it and right to As I have already made clear, no decisions have been stand up for Londoners. I stress again that even if a taken on this scheme. In fact, no scheme has even been decision were taken to proceed with a Greater London designed. Let us be clear: no scheme whatsoever has boundary charge for non-London residents, it would been designed and no decisions have been taken on the take at least two years to implement. It is a last-ditch charge level, exemptions or hours of operation. As we option, forced on TfL by the Government’s failure to all know, with the election just weeks away, Conservative provide long-term funding, which is the key issue. Members here today are doing their best to whip up this Let me turn to a point I made earlier on the real issue and spread fake news. Londoners—in fact, their reason for TfL’scurrent predicament. It was a Conservative own constituents—deserve far better. Government under Chancellor George Osborne and Let us talk about the facts. Every weekday, 1.3 million the current Prime Minister,when he was Mayor of London, vehicle trips are made from outside London to the who agreed to the withdrawal of the direct operating capital, burdening local communities with traffic and grant. The then Mayor’s decision meant that the network emissions. Of those 1.3 million vehicle trips, around became almost completely reliant on fare revenue, unlike 1 million are made to outer London. TfL informs me comparable transport authorities in any other global that prior to the pandemic, car journeys made by residents city across the western world. When fares subsequently within outer London had been in decline in recent slumped because the covid lockdown meant no one was years, whereas car journeys to outer London from travelling, TfL’s income collapsed almost overnight. It outside the boundary—in other words, by non-London is thanks to Conservative decisions in the past that TfL residents—had been increasing over the same period. is left between a rock and a hard place, with no easy What this all comes down to is the more fundamental choices for the Mayor and TfL, having to fix the Tories’ choices about what has to be done. Do we all want a mess and raise the vast amount of money required to well-funded public transport system, with a diverse make up that shortfall. range of income streams so that it is not entirely reliant To add insult to injury, it is yet again a Conservative on fares, or do we think that it is acceptable to cut Government who are more determined than ever to services, because otherwise that is where we are headed? force through a new era of cuts and the retrenchment of Cutting services at a time when we are trying to incentivise transport in the capital. That is unacceptable. The Mayor, people back to using public transport, as they return to TfL and businesses are united in knowing that would be work after having their vaccination and the economy completely counterproductive. Our capital city, whose begins to move again, would be completely and utterly economic contribution benefits the rest of the country counterproductive. immensely,is so much more dependent on public transport When it is safe to do so, we want people to enjoy than elsewhere in the country. everything that our capital has to offer. However, if they The Government hold all the cards here. On behalf think that they will be packed in like sardines and that of all Londoners, I urge them to once and for all stop passengers will be rammed in—perhaps from Newbury the politicking, put their hands in their pockets, properly Park in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member fund our capital’s public transport network and allow for Ilford North, as I have experienced many times—they London to keep its share of VED. If the Government will not want to get on tubes or buses. They did not like fail to act, my advice to Conservative MPs here today that pre-pandemic and they certainly will not like it now. and colleagues across London, including those who I have also heard the argument that if fewer people have spoken, is to direct their anger to the Transport are travelling because they are working from home, we Secretary and this Government. It is they alone who should put up fares. That is clearly the preference of the should carry the can. I have not heard one single word Transport Secretary, who forced the Mayor of London from them about an alternative. Their silence speaks to increase fares this year in order to access emergency volumes. London deserves better; indeed, Britain deserves financial support. The rest of us know, however, that if an awful lot better. we price people off the public transport network, we run the risk of forcing them to use cars. 3.36 pm I also find it interesting to hear Tory MPs express The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport outrage today, given what their own Transport Secretary (Rachel Maclean): It is a great pleasure to serve under said just last September, in a letter he sent to the Mayor your chairmanship, Ms Rees. I heartily congratulate my of London: hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) “Given the significant rise in congestion in inner London, we on securing this important debate. He and many other also propose the extension of the central London congestion hon. Friends have put on the record their concerns at charging zone to cover the same area as the Ultra Low Emission the Mayor of London’s plans to introduce a border tax Zone…and at the same time, October 2021.” for people and businesses travelling into the capital. That would have been an extreme and unacceptable We heard from my hon. Friends the Members for proposal, on the basis of what colleagues have said here Gravesham (Adam Holloway), for Reigate (Crispin today. It would also have meant that every journey Blunt), for Orpington (Gareth Bacon), for Harrow East 339WH Outer London Congestion Charge23 MARCH 2021 Outer London Congestion Charge 340WH

[Rachel Maclean] London exists as an island, disconnected from the rest of the country. Nothing, of course, could be further (Bob Blackman), for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot from the truth. Just as London is critical to the success Colburn) and for Hendon (Dr Offord), so we have a of the country, so the success of London is fed by very good sense of the widespread impact of the concerns countless thousands of individuals who commute to about this proposal. London from outside its boundaries. The debate, rightly, has focused on the Mayor’s border An estimated 1.3 million vehicle journeys are made tax. I will come to that in a moment, but behind this into London every weekday. Critical workers travel into question lies a deeper concern that has been highlighted the capital from the constituencies mentioned today, by many contributors, about the state of TfL’s finances, including that of my hon. Friend the Member for which brought us to this predicament. Let me say Dartford, to work in London’s hospitals, supermarkets straight away that I do not doubt the impact that the and schools. These are the people who the Mayor coronavirus pandemic has had on TfL’s finances over proposes to punish for his financial ineptitude during the last year. I doubt any transport system in the world his time in office. It is important not to underestimate has emerged from the last 12 months unscathed, as the impact that such a border tax could have. A driver people rightly heeded the Government’s calls to stay at who travels into London every weekday could face a bill home and the capital’s streets emptied. That is precisely of almost £1,000 a year—devastating at a time when why the Government have stepped in to help. people and businesses are trying to recover from one of In May 2020, the Government agreed to support TfL the worst economic downturns of the past century. with a funding settlement worth up to £1.6 billion. This would be a border tax levied on people outside Following that, we agreed another settlement in October London by a Mayor they were not able to vote for or, 2020, bringing the total value of financial support for indeed, vote out. I am a firm believer that there should TfL to more than £3 billion since the pandemic began. be no taxation without representation, as such a move It is worth pausing on that figure of £3 billion. The would fly in the face of the Mayor’s supposed mantra hon. Member for Ilford South (Sam Tarry) bemoaned that London is open. For that reason, I put it on the the lack of a sustainable, long-term strategy. Three record that this is an idea that the Government do not billion pounds has been provided to support TfL. It was support. confirmed in a statement to the House on Monday that Under Sadiq Khan’s leadership, TfL’s debt has risen, this support would, once again, be extended, until May. projects have been delayed and income has been thrown I remind the hon. Gentleman that discussions are ongoing, away on pet projects. It is unacceptable that the Mayor to meet the exact call that he made—to put TfL’s will now seek to recover the money that these failures finances on a sustainable footing for the long term. have lost by introducing a deeply damaging border tax When we know how passengers are responding to the on families and businesses surrounding London. I once Prime Minister’s road map to safely unlock our economy, again thank my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford we can continue to work with TfL, as we have been for securing this debate and giving his constituents a doing throughout the pandemic, to once again explore voice in this House. As families and businesses rebuild, what support it needs. we need a Mayor of London who will support them by The issue, however, is that even before the pandemic, getting London’sfinances back on the path of sustainability TfL’s finances were in a perilous state. As many of my and who will stop threatening measures that could set hon. Friends have rightly said, years of mismanagement London and, indeed, the rest of the UK back by under the current Mayor left TfL completely unable to decades. cope when the pandemic hit. By April this year, TfL expects its debt to reach £13.1 billion. The Mayor 3.43 pm pursued ill-conceived policies designed to re-elect him, Gareth Johnson: My thanks to you, Ms Rees, for not to do what was right by Londoners. His fare freeze, chairing this debate. May I also thank everybody who which he was warned would have a devastating impact, has contributed? It has been a constructive debate, with has cost at least £640 million. The Mayor has failed to much of it centring on whether or not TfL and the get a grip on pensions or excessive salaries. In short, Mayor of London are properly financed. Even if one TfL’s finances are out of control and we must tackle concedes—which I do not—that they are not properly that, because people living outside the capital cannot be financed, this is not the right route to go down in order expected to keep picking up the tab for Sadiq Khan’s to raise funding. It is hugely divisive. It sets community mistakes. against community and sets London against the others. Unfortunately, rather than facing up to some of the It will create a literal financial wall right around London’s difficult choices that need to be made to get TfL back border. It is totally wrong. on the path to financial sustainability, the Mayor has If this policy is implemented, I wish businesses and responded with politicking and measures that will punish public sector organisations in the outer London boroughs working Londoners and their closest neighbours alike. good luck in recruiting staff. We need to do everything Mayor Khan is increasing council tax by almost 10%. we can to prevent it from being implemented. Raising That means that the average band D property is now revenue from people whom to whom the Mayor is facing a council tax bill that is £31 more expensive than totally unaccountably is the wrong way to raise taxation. a year ago. It is taxation without representation; it is taxation without The other deeply concerning suggestion from the accountability. Mayor is that he might seek to introduce the so-called That is why it is a fundamentally poor policy that has border tax that we have heard about today, which is a been ill thought through and will be devastating to my charge of at least £3.50 for every single vehicle that constituents and to ordinary people in Dartford and crosses into London. The Mayor seems to believe that around the south-east who are just going about their 341WH Outer London Congestion Charge 23 MARCH 2021 342WH daily business, going into London to visit friends and Battle of Barnet: 550th Anniversary loved ones and to work and shop. Those are the people who will be hardest hit by this proposed charge, and that is why it is fundamentally wrong. 4.5 pm Question put and agreed to. (Chipping Barnet) (Con): I beg to Resolved, move, That this House has considered the proposal for an outer That this House has considered the 550th anniversary of the London congestion charge. Battle of Barnet 1471. Before turning to the subject of the debate, I want to 3.45 pm acknowledge that this is a very difficult and sad day for Sitting suspended. our country. My support and sympathy go to everyone who has lost loved ones, suffered illness or had their livelihood damaged by this yearlong health emergency. Let us hope that the vaccination programme means that better days lie ahead. At around 5 am on 14 April 1471, battle was joined between the forces of York and Lancaster just north of the village of Barnet, in one of the most decisive battles of the 30-year conflict that later became known as the wars of the roses. At the head of the Yorkist army was King Edward IV. Over six feet tall, handsome, athletic and astute, Edward had assumed the leadership of the Yorkist cause at just 18 years old when his father was killed in a skirmish outside Wakefield. The teenage warrior emerged victorious at Towton in one of the bloodiest battles ever fought on English soil, and he successfully established a new dynasty. Leading for Lancaster was Edward’s former friend and mentor, Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick—a man so powerful in the dynastic struggles of the time that he earned the name kingmaker. Warwick had displaced Edward from his throne the previous year. Three kings were on the field that day, the last of a 300-year line of Plantagenet monarchs: first, Edward IV; secondly, his prisoner, the deposed Henry VI; and thirdly, Edward’s brother, Richard, Duke of Gloucester, who would one day seize power and provoke 500 years of debate on his character and alleged crimes. The stakes could not have been higher for the men peering through the mist at one another that Easter Sunday morning 550 years ago. George R. R. Martin’s character, Cersei Lannister, once said, “If you play the game of thrones and lose, you die.” Well, as the banner created by Barnet Museum aptly put it, the battle of Barnet was part of “the real game of thrones”. Defeat almost certainly meant death for those leading the armies facing off against one another that day back in 1471. The two sides were relatively evenly matched in numbers. Initially, neither seemed to have the upper hand. Because of the thick fog, however, the two sides were not directly aligned in front of one another at the start of the battle, as would normally be the case. Lancastrian forces under the Earl of Oxford stretched further to the east than the Yorkist troops at Edward’s left, led by Lord Hastings. That enabled Oxford’s forces to attack from the side, partly encircling the Yorkist left flank and forcing them back down the road to Barnet. When Oxford and his troops returned to the battle, the two sides had shifted around from a north-south to an east-west axis. Unknowingly, he therefore arrived behind the rest of the Lancastrian army rather than alongside them. Mistaking their allies for the enemy, possibly because the fog made it hard to distinguish Oxford’s star banner from Edward’s sun in splendour, or perhaps because they assumed Oxford had switched sides, as so many did in that conflict, the Lancastrian 343WH Battle of Barnet: 550th Anniversary23 MARCH 2021 Battle of Barnet: 550th Anniversary 344WH

[Theresa Villiers] tough time, as competition from online retail giants intensified. But high streets, as all of us in the House know, archers fired on Oxford’s men. Believing they had been are a crucial part of our communities and we must find betrayed, they fled the field. By 8 am, Warwick was ways to ensure that they survive. That is one reason why dead and the victory belonged to York. I have campaigned for many years for a reduction in There are many reasons why it is worth remembering and reform of business rates. I welcome the continuation these events as we approach the 550th anniversary of of the business rates holiday confirmed in the Budget. the battle on 14 April; not only because as many as Heritage-related tourism can also play an important 4,000 might have lost their lives that day, but because part in helping our high streets thrive. I am delighted this was a significant turning point. It was probably the that the Heritage Lottery Fund gave a grant of £98,600 first battle in Britain to see extensive use of handguns. to the Battle of Barnet project in 2015. This was run by More importantly, it is worth considering what might the Barnet Museum, the Barnet Society and the Battlefields have happened if the result had gone the other way. Trust. The Chipping Barnet Town Team was also very Defeat in Barnet and the consequent early demise of supportive and got involved. I thank all those groups the house of York could have seen progress stopped or for their excellent work. The project included a range of reversed on Edward IV’s efforts to build a modern state activities that have generated local interest in history and curb the power of magnates. Although the reforms and heritage. are generally credited to the Tudors, the transition There was extensive engagement with local schools. began under Edward of York. If the difference between For example, Barnet Museum created a loan box full of the middle ages and the modern era is reining in the medieval replicas, maps, pictures and a teacher’s pack power of the nobility and banning their private armies, telling the story of the battle and suggesting activities there could be few more important turning points for and events to inspire an interest in our town’s medieval achieving that than defeating Warwick—the most past. Museum volunteers also painted copies of the family overmighty subject of them all—on the battlefield. banners of the people who fought at Barnet. Following However, I am pleased to say that the most important the lead set by Tewkesbury, the site of the battle to which reason to mark the anniversary is to promote my Edward IV hastened after winning at Barnet, these banners constituency of Chipping Barnet and encourage people were hung on lamp posts in Barnet High Street and are to visit our local town centre. This is the only registered due to be back up soon to mark the anniversary. Such battlefield that people can get to by tube; the only one efforts can make a real difference to bringing people to within the Greater London area. Between 2015 and their local town centre and I thank all the volunteers at 2017, Glenn Foard and Sam Wilson ran a project for the Barnet Museum and local history society for creating the University of Huddersfield to try to identify the them. Thanks must also go to Bouygues, which owns the exact location of the battle. Dr Foard found the real site street lights and put up the banners. of Bosworth and the burial place of the King under the However, the biggest and best event hosted by the car park. His theory is that the battle may have taken Battle of Barnet project was the 2018 Barnet medieval place slightly further north, towards the Wrotham Park festival. Around 6,500 attended the festival during the estate, rather than in the Hadley Green, Old Fold and two days it ran, and over 100 took part in re-enactments Hadley Highstone area, which is the registered site. of the second battle of St Albans and, of course, the The Huddersfield University work was made possible battle of Barnet. There were tents and stalls that enabled by the Hadley Trust, a local charity, for which I am very people to understand more about how ordinary people grateful. It included metal detecting, test pitting, geophysical lived in medieval England. The festival’s activities for surveys and landscape archaeology.Many local volunteers children were especially popular, although I have to say got involved and gave a hand. The results of the project that BBC London’s TV coverage did feature some rather were inconclusive, but I have to acknowledge that there alarmingly bloodthirsty comments from some of the is some anxiety that the eventual outcome might be that younger participants in the mock battles that day. I was London loses its only registered battlefield. However, excited to be allowed to fire off a replica cannon as part even if the main centre of the fighting turns out to have of the opening ceremony—it was very, very loud. It was been not in my constituency but in that of the Secretary one of the best days out I have ever had in my constituency, of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, my right and it was a brilliant way to bring people together. hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (), Sadly,last year’s festival was cancelled because of covid, further up the road to Potters Bar,contemporary accounts but I hope that this year’s will go ahead on 11 and confirm that fighting extended back towards Barnet, so 12 September. I strongly urge anyone who wants to my constituency is likely to remain the site of at least make it happen to donate to the festival’s Spacehive part of the battlefield, even if these latest theories on appeal, at www.spacehive.com/battle-barnet-550. If the location ultimately prove to be correct. Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport has Once life returns to normal, I warmly encourage any spare resources, it is a great cause to support. I people to walk around what is traditionally recognised make the same appeal to the National Lottery Heritage as the battle site. I am less sure of the extent of public Fund. Its grant for the 2018 event was a massive success, access to the Wrotham Park alternative. Hopefully, in and I am sure that it would be replicated if further doing so, visitors will take the time to stop off at some funding were forthcoming for this year’s festival. of Barnet’s excellent hospitality businesses, as indeed I will also take this opportunity to reiterate my call some of the victorious Yorkist troops apparently did for Government support for pandemic insurance for after the battle. I very much hope that Barnet’s pubs, festivals and events, which I gather was discussed here restaurants and cafés will soon be allowed to open once this morning. Many of those trying to put on events again, as planned in the road map. Even before covid, and festivals are finding it difficult or impossible to get our local town centres across the country had had a insured. We risk a further summer of cancellations if 345WH Battle of Barnet: 550th Anniversary23 MARCH 2021 Battle of Barnet: 550th Anniversary 346WH the problem is not solved, so I urge the Minister—as I As the Minister responsible for heritage, I am heartened have done many times already—to offer the same kind to see the passion and vigour that our nation’s history of support to festivals and events as her Department evokes. There is absolutely no disputing that the battle has already given to the TV sector. For the sake of of Barnet was one of the most significant and important economic recovery, to signal that the UK is open for battles of the wars of the roses. It was a very important business again this summer, and to enable families to moment in English history, when King Edward IV was have some fun and memorable days out after the toughest restored to the throne. I am very grateful to my right 12 months any of us can remember, will the Government hon. Friend for bringing it to life for us today with so please say yes to a pandemic insurance scheme? much vigour and passion. In conclusion, I will return to the battle itself. As well My right hon. Friend is absolutely right that such as its historic importance, the 550th anniversary of the events have shaped our national story.The 550th anniversary battle is an opportunity to reflect on its cultural significance. of the battle of Barnet serves as a perfect opportunity I have already referred to the influence of the wars of to reflect on our past and engage our communities in a the roses on “Game of Thrones”, in which the struggle way that fosters a sense of pride, shared history and between Stark and Lannister bears a number of striking belonging. As she said, it is a way to reinvigorate our similarities to the 15th century contest between York towns and village centres, which have suffered so much and Lancaster. Philippa Gregory has also brought the over the past year. It is an opportunity to inspire our story of the brief tenure of the charismatic Yorkist youngsters in our schools and colleges, and it will dynasty vividly to life in her remarkable historical novels, potentially inspire some historians of the future. which have enjoyed such massive success. One of my Barnet’s medieval festival is a perfect example of personal favourites is “The White Queen”, which tells the that, and I am sure it will deliver on those aims. It will story of Elizabeth Woodville, who waited anxiously back mark the prestigious anniversary with a special programme in London just a few miles away for news of whether of battle re-enactments, gunnery and archery displays, her husband had triumphed or perished in Barnet. living history encampments, music, dance, a medieval It is Shakespeare, of course, who gives the battle of market and children’s activities. I cannot think of a Barnet its most enduring place in our literature and better way to spend an afternoon—I quite fancy having culture, so I will close my remarks today with words a go at firing a cannon myself, I have to say. Having that our nation’s greatest poet placed in the mouth of a been delayed by the coronavirus, the festival is now due man dying in a field near Barnet 550 years ago; one who to take place in September, and I think it will be an is memorialised in Hadley Highstone in my constituency absolutely resounding success. It is the sort of event that and is forever known to history as the kingmaker: we have all be desperate for over these past months. “These eyes, that now are dimmed with death’s black veil, The Battle of Barnet project, as my right hon. Friend Have been as piercing as the midday sun, says, serves as a shining example of how, more than half To search the secret treasons of the world: a millennium later, our nation’s history can really be used to enrich the lives of the local community. Running The wrinkles in my brows, now fill’d with blood, from 2015 to 2019, managed by the Barnet Museum, Were likened oft to kingly sepulchres; the Barnet Society and the Battlefields Trust, it sought For who liv’d king, but I could dig his grave? to improve knowledge and understanding through And who durst smile when Warwick bent his brow? archaeological surveys of the battlefield, in conjunction Lo! Now my glory smear’d in dust and blood; with the University of Huddersfield. It is such fascinating work. My parks, my walks, my manors that I had, Even now forsake me; and, of all my lands The National Lottery Heritage Fund grant of more than £98,000, awarded in 2016, also helped to engage Is nothing left me but my body’s length. audiences of all ages across the local community, as my Why, what is pomp, rule, reign, but earth and dust? right hon. Friend pointed out. It developed a wide And, live we how we can, yet die we must.” range of initiatives. Barnet High Street was enriched with information boards about the battle. My right 4.19 pm hon. Friend talked about the heraldic banners, which must have been quite a sight. It is so important to have a The Minister for Digital and Culture (Caroline Dinenage): greater understanding of the past, and that was fostered It is a great pleasure to serve under your stewardship, through the school activity packs, the medieval replicas, Ms Rees. I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for the maps, the pictures, the teachers’ pack, and the Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers) for securing this publication of a free leaflet, highlighting locations around fascinating debate. We have been all over the place, from Barnet relating to the battlefield. That brings it all to “Game of Thrones”to Shakespeare,and she has entertained life in a spectacular way. The medieval festival attracted and educated us. several thousand attendees and proved to be a huge As my right hon. Friend says, we should recognise success. The festival has been repeated in subsequent that this is a very sad anniversary. It is one year since the years independently of Lottery funding, such was its lockdown started. So many lives have been lost, and so success. many of us over the period have lost the things we hold This anniversary is an opportunity to reflect on the dear—the chance to see our friends and loved ones, and importance of our historical environment. Battlefields to attend the events that we love. This year has also driven such as that in Barnet provide such an important anchor us to appreciate more than ever the things that we to the evolution of our country and they provide an appreciate in life and the things that bring us together as important reminder of our past as well. Their conservation a community—our sense of togetherness, and our shared is therefore integral, for research purposes, to improving history and heritage. Those are the things that unite us. our understanding and appreciation of our heritage. 347WH Battle of Barnet: 550th Anniversary 23 MARCH 2021 348WH

[Caroline Dinenage] Education After Covid-19

The significance of these sites is highlighted by the 4.50 pm inclusion of some of the most significant examples in Historic England’s register of historic battlefields. There Christina Rees (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members are currently 47 registered battlefields, including the site that there have been some changes to normal practice in of the battle of Barnet, and these sites are conserved order to support the new hybrid arrangements. Timings through the planning system. I am pleased to see that of debates have been amended to allow technical the overwhelming majority of our registered battlefields, arrangements to be made for the next debate. There will Barnet included, are still in excellent condition. also be suspensions between each debate. I remind Like my right hon. Friend, I eagerly await the return Members participating physically and virtually that they of public events such as Barnet’s medieval festival, must arrive for the start of debates in Westminster Hall. which contribute so much to our lives through celebrating Members are expected to remain for the entire debate. I our culture and heritage. We know that our first priority must also remind Members participating virtually that at the moment must be public safety.However,in February they are visible at all times both to each other and to us the Government published a road map that aims to in the Boothroyd Room. If Members attending virtually provide some clarity to event organisers as restrictions have any technical problems they should email the are eased, and that seeks to balance that key social and Westminster Hall Clerk’semail address.Members attending economic priority while preserving the health and safety physically should clean their spaces before they use of our country. them and as they leave the room. I would also like to remind Members that Mr Speaker has stated that masks Crucially, the road map focuses on data, not dates. should be worn in Westminster Hall. Alongside this, and to back it up and help move it forward, the Prime Minister has announced some scientific 4.51 pm events research programmes, which are an integral part of the road map and will explore how these kinds of Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con) [V]: I beg to move, events, across the culture and entertainment sectors, That this House has considered improving the education system can reopen safely. Over the spring, to support this, we after the covid-19 outbreak. will be including a series of pilots using the enhanced It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, testing approach as another measure to run events with Ms Rees. I understand it is your first chairmanship, so large crowd sizes and reduced social distancing, to many congratulations if that is the case. I thank Members, really prove the fact that they can return. My sincere and most of all the Minister, for taking time to participate hope is that, come September, the Barnet medieval in the debate. Frankly, all debates on education are festival and similar events right across the country will important. I pay tribute to the work that the Minister be able to go ahead as planned. With infection rates has done. He is a long-standing Minister and is much falling and now well over 27 million people vaccinated, respected in his field. there is cause for great optimism in our country. I will start off with a couple of other thank yous that My right hon. Friend spoke about indemnity. The are relevant to the Isle of Wight. I know how hard the Government acknowledge that the circumstances of the headteachers, teachers and pupils on the island have pandemic have left many unable to have the confidence worked, and I thank them all. It has been a difficult and certainty they need to plan for events. We have been year and I think the Isle of Wight has done pretty well engaging with stakeholders in my office right throughout overall, especially compared with the national average. the period to understand the issues.The potential challenges It has not been easy and we are grateful to everyone for around indemnity are a very big part of that. the efforts that they have made. I thank our education We know that progress on the vaccine and beating the team at the council: Brian Pope and Steve Crocker, and virus are crucial and this, combined with reopening Councillor Paul Brading. I thank them for their dedication only when we know it is safe to do so, will reduce the to the wellbeing of the island. chances of cancellations and interruption. That will One of the worst of many damaging aspects of covid create a much more predictable and secure operating has been the effect on the education of children and young context for these sorts of events. Any decision about people. Even with our best efforts, it will now take years indemnity alongside that will be taken by the Treasury, to repair the damage. Significant events such as pandemics which I know is keeping the situation under review, and and, indeed, world wars, often serve as disruptors, but we are working with it to determine the most effective they can be positive disruptors. Not only do we now response to the sector within the public health context. have an opportunity to learn from the past year with its On that note, I again congratulate my right hon. virtual as opposed to real, in-person education, but Friend on securing the debate and for entertaining and such situations provide a window of opportunity for educating us this afternoon. I have every faith that the sometimes radical change. I want to look at two or three 550th anniversary of the battle of Barnet will serve as a ideas to suggest potential changes to the education fantastic opportunity for the local community to come system that could benefit not only folk on the Isle of together again, to engage with our fantastic national Wight but everyone in the UK. heritage and to really begin to foster and rebuild that As I said, the pandemic is no different from significant sense of community pride, shared history and belonging. disruptor episodes, and has identified some important Question put and agreed to. issues such as, in the healthcare context, the link between the health and care home sectors—or lack of it—and 4.28 pm how that worked during the pandemic. I want to take this Sitting suspended. opportunity to ask some big questions about how things can be done differently in education. The Minister has 349WH Education After Covid-1923 MARCH 2021 Education After Covid-19 350WH been in his post for some years so I am trying to frame Every child should have a tablet or laptop for the the debate as questions to him, because he has significantly duration of their schooling, in the same way that they more expertise than I do in the matter. There are would have had a pencil and notebook 50 years ago. three things I want to look at, and the first is term time. Certainly when it comes to exams and testing, screens The Secretary of State has spoken about that recently. can be almost a non-stressful way to encourage testing The second is the use of technology to improve education, at the end of a lesson, at the end of the day or at the end and the third is Government working in a more integrated of a week. Testing can become part of the support for and coherent way. I shall refer to my constituency too. children, and indeed for teachers, rather than painful The three-term school year has absolutely had its day. occasional hurdles that need to be overcome. For some We have not lived in an agrarian society for the best part children, virtual learning has enhanced their education. of 150 years, if not 200 years. Children, teenagers and For some, it has not worked, and vulnerable children need young people no longer need to go and help with the to be in the classroom, either with in-person teaching or harvests for a six or seven-week period over the summer. with tablets. For some kids, however—as far as the teachers That has not had to happen for decades, if not a century to whom I have spoken say—more at-home learning has or two. We know that long holidays can damage kids’ actually been of real benefit, as has been more interaction learning. I remember going back to school in September with technologists. For example, I understand that some pretty much having forgotten everything that I learned children with autism have benefited from being able to the previous year,because in the seven weeks over summer work at home with a more flexible timetable. This is people simply swich off. Research shows that the poorer about an important duty of care as well as education. the children, the worse the damage. Additionally, poorer That links to the critical national infrastructure that children are less likely to take part in enriching activities we actually need, which is not a railway between London in summer, such as travel abroad, and they are sadly and Birmingham; it is fibre to premises for homes, more likely to be malnourished and are more vulnerable schools and businesses throughout the country. That is to isolation and periods of inactivity. This is a social the critical piece of infrastructure that we cannot do and mental health problem, as well as an educational without in future and that we should prioritise. problem. My third point is about coherent and integrated The Secretary of State said that we should look to working. Talking to educational experts—I like to talk move to a five-term year, and I completely agree. We to them anyway, but I wanted to make sure that I had should be doing so permanently, and perhaps a royal some valid points to make in my speech—there is a commission could look at whether it is a four-term or sense from some of them, and from some teachers, that five-term year. We need to split up the term time in although the Department for Education is doing excellent order to have shorter but more consistent terms throughout work, it could work more effectively and coherently the year. Yes, we still need summer holidays, but they with the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial can be staggered depending on the exact school term for Strategy on skills, and with the Department for Digital, any academy or county, with changes in term time. Culture, Media and Sport on kit and support for schools Holidays do not have to be crammed into six or seven in a virtual world, in order to improve education and weeks in summer; they could be taken in June, July, work experience. I am sure the Minister will let us know August or September, depending on when the exact his thoughts on this issue. term time falls for any given school. Finally, I want to talk a bit about improving education Why do we have a school year that runs from September on the Isle of Wight. We have an improving school to July? Why not from January to December? Why should system on the Island, for which I am very grateful. The we have exams in summer, which is full of disruption? officers we have had from Hampshire, who now work Summer is fun—people want to be outside, and it is a on the Island, have helped us drive up standards. very distracting time of year. Why not have exams in Wehave had an issue with higher education, only because March or April, over a winter period in which it is easier we have not had it and not had enough of it. My huge to encourage kids to work at home and to study because frustration has been that for 30 years, while higher it is raining outside or it is cold? There is an argument education in Bournemouth, Portsmouth, Southampton that if we think it is right to do something, let us get on and Brighton have driven not only education in those and do it. cities but student life and the prosperity it brings to those city centres, that education revolution has completely My second point is about using technology to improve passed by the Isle of Wight, which is painful for us. education. We need to implement the best learnings that we can to enhance education, and I thank the Academies The worst thing is that, if someone is young and smart Enterprise Trust, Julian Drinkall and his team for their and wants to get a degree, they would pretty much have excellent work at Academy—some really ground- to leave the island. That inability to keep our most breaking stuff. Although some schools have struggled talented people has been a problem for us. Once kids with virtual learning, most have not. The Isle of Wight leave, they might not come back until they are 50, 60 or has done very well by comparison and, again, I thank 70. They might come back to retire, but getting them everyone involved, but we need to take the lessons from back has been a problem. I would very much like to do the pandemic and find the best balance between in-person more to develop higher education, specifically with a teaching and virtual learning, because kids need to higher education campus in Newport. learn to react with screens as well as in person. I know We have the , under the excellent there is an issue with people saying that sometimes leadership of Debbie Lavin. Anything the Minister children are watching too much TV at home, but screens could do, not only with the DFE but also the Department can be a great way to encourage engagement with for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, working technology at school. Everyone will be living virtually with me to develop more degree level courses, which online and in person now, and this is not an option. people can take on the island, perhaps doing that through 351WH Education After Covid-1923 MARCH 2021 Education After Covid-19 352WH

[Bob Seely] That report led me to set up the all-party parliamentary group for special educational needs and disabilities, the Isle of Wight College or virtually, or with other now chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, people setting up a campus here, would be incredibly Hallam (Olivia Blake), which is looking particularly at valuable for us. the impact of covid on these children. The situation I want others to have time to talk, so I will wrap up during covid has got worse for these families, with many there. I will be grateful to hear what the Minister has to families pushed to breaking point, because the children say to those critical points. To sum up: on term times, have been an afterthought. As the Government and the can we change the school year and potentially Minister were promoting the use of technology and we do exams, to enable kids to learn better and more laptops for school pupils, no thought was given to consistently throughout the year? Can we use technology assisted technology for our pupils with special educational better, with that interaction between the best of in-person needs and disabilities. learning and learning virtually on screen? We need that Although all those children were allowed to attend for the future, because kids will need to be able to adjust school, because they had their education, health and care to the real life that they are going to find once they leave plans, little thought was given to what would happen school. Thirdly, what can the DFE do to work more when more than 90% of children in a special school coherently with other Departments, to ensure that we attend at the same time; or to when we introduce a drive forward a skills and learning agenda, which is policy saying that these children have to be tested, critical for the future of the country? knowing that some of them have serious sensory conditions and cannot administer the tests themselves, leading to Christina Rees (in the Chair): I intend to call the many parents feeling extremely worried about the idea Opposition spokesperson at 5.33 pm and the Minister of a teacher having to forcibly test their child. That left at 5.38 pm. That gives four minutes maximum to Back- headteachers in the impossible situation of wondering Bench speakers, so please confine yourselves to four what to do if all the children decided that they could minutes or less. I call Emma Hardy. not take the test because they find it too distressing. Again, the children were an afterthought. No thought was given either to the staff working in these special 5.2 pm schools, who need to be prioritised for vaccination to Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) keep these pupils safe. (Lab): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Families have been desperately worried. I am so Ms Rees. Provision and support for children with special worried about, and hope the Minister will look into, the educational needs and disability was broken before the number of parents of children with special educational pandemic. During the pandemic, those children have needs and disabilities who have started home schooling been forgotten. My plea to the Minister is, now that we and who now inform me that they have no intention of are looking at how to improve education, let us put sending their children back to school when the risks of those children back at its heart. the pandemic have eased. It is not only the parents and The Select Committee on Education report of October the children, but the special educational needs co-ordinators, 2019 took 18 months, heard more than 70 witnesses and three quarters of whom say they are experiencing challenges received 700 pieces of written evidence. To quote from in providing support for children and young people the document, these were the problems found pre-pandemic: with EHCPs during lockdown. Any question or debate “There is too much tension between a child’s needs and the about improving the education system after covid-19 provision available…a general lack of accountability within the has to put these children back at the heart of the system…Parents and carers have to wade through a treacle of conversation, because a system that delivers for these bureaucracy,full of conflict, missed appointments and despair…many children is a system that can deliver for all. I still believe local authorities are struggling with the reforms, and in some that every child matters. cases this has led to unlawful practice…struggling against the tide of unintended consequences of policy decisions.” 5.6 pm The report states: “This generation is being let down—the reforms have not done Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con) [V]: I enough to join the dots, to bring people together and to create congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of opportunities for all young people to thrive in adulthood.” Wight (Bob Seely) on securing this timely debate. I will It adds: concentrate, in the time I have, on two things. On the “We are seeing serious gaps in therapy provision.” face of it, they are quite different, but I believe that they are related and speak to two of the major challenges The summary concludes by saying: that we face in education post pandemic. “Special educational needs and disabilities must be seen as part We have long known it to be the case, although the of the whole approach of the Department’s remit, not just an add-on.” pandemic has emphasised it, that education is about not only those tangible outputs such as exams but the During the pandemic, they have not even been an whole self and preparing young people for the world. It add-on; they have been an afterthought. is often measured in the absence of things that only The Government’s response to the report was to become tangible when they go wrong. We are seeing the commission their own review, which they promised fruit of that dropping from the tree now—lost learning, would be published in January 2021. After I submitted and young people with deep mental health concerns, a written question to the Department, I was told that it issues with socialising and increasing anxiety. For some, would be published in spring 2021. I hope the Minister perhaps even many, being away from formalised school will be able to tell us when we can expect to see that during the crisis has left deep scars that we really need document. to address right now. 353WH Education After Covid-1923 MARCH 2021 Education After Covid-19 354WH

The pandemic has taught us some lessons about teaching. The pandemic has also shone a bright light on ourselves too. In my constituency, we suffered the high levels of inequality that exist in our country.The disproportionately poor outcomes from covid due to pandemic has made them worse. There is a lot we can do underlying health conditions. We have also seen young to make our education system fairer for young people people becoming even more reliant on devices and and mature students alike. The lessons we are learning for schooling and for their friendships. We from the pandemic can be a driver for real positive change. have to ask ourselves how we can learn from these We talk about schools and universities, but all too things and how we can change them for the better. I do often we leave out the further education sector. Yet it is not for a second believe that we can put the genie back the worst-funded sector in the education system. It is in the bottle on using the internet, and nor should we also at the heart of addressing the hard-wired inequalities ever want to, but we can challenge ourselves to ensure in this country. At the end of last year, the Government that this fantastic tool is used better. Similarly, we can announced that colleges and sixth forms would benefit re-emphasise the importance of outdoor education and from an extra £400 million investment, and that funding start to head off now some of those issues that will would be maintained in real terms for 2021-22. That impact young people later in life. was welcome and long overdue, but not nearly enough To touch on online skills and political literacy, we are to fill the £1.1 billion funding gap that has opened up at a time when, like it or lump it, politics is everywhere— for 16 to 19-year-olds since 2010. As funding is based politicians have made a disproportionate number of on previous student numbers, an increase in students decisions about how people live their lives, earn a living could still result in a fall in funding per student in real and how they learn—so interest and frustration with politics terms. is at an all-time high, but are we equipping young people For adult learners, funding is yet more unpredictable. with the skills they need to engage and to see the wood Total spending on adult skills has fallen by about 45% in for the trees? In 2018, the National Literacy Foundation the last decade. As our economy and workforce prepare found that only 2% of children in the UK have the skills to adapt to the new challenges after the pandemic, there needed to determine whether a piece of information is is no better time to talk about the vital role of further real or fake. If the last year has shown us anything, it is education. The CBI predicts that nine in 10 employees that misinformation and low levels of media literacy will have to reskill by 2030. Investing in reskilling our pose serious threats to societies across the globe. It has adult workforce is financially clever and imperative for been common to speak of a crisis in democracy for individual and collective wellbeing. Our further education years, but in the past 12 months it has been brought into colleges are at the forefront of those efforts. sharp focus. Our education system is at risk of being out of date. We must ensure that resources are there to In Bath, we are lucky that Bath College has formed a prepare students for life in a 21st century democracy. partnership with Bath Spa University and the Institute The covid-19 pandemic has brought challenges that most of Coding to create a groundbreaking plan to reskill of us could not imagine over a year ago, and the education and upskill our local workforce. The project is called system and teachers have been hit incredibly hard, but they I-START and it delivers across innovation, technology, have more than risen to these challenges. Even with that arts, research and teaching in flexible blended modules adversity comes an opportunity—an opportunity to have that fit easily around busy lives. At the core of the some conversations like this debate, and to open up about project is supporting learners to build and develop skills how we can improve and what rebuilding looks like. in resilience,problem solving, creativity and communication, which will be much sought after by businesses after Outdoor education is one subject that we should be covid. I hope this unique initiative starting in Bath will focusing on. In Cumbria, we are blessed with many serve as an inspiration and a useful model for other excellent centres and I have greatly enjoyed visits to a parts of the country. few of them recently, such as Kepplewray. However, that sector is on its knees. Outdoor education is not just about exercise or getting outdoors. It is about teaching 5.14 pm valuable life skills, such as teamwork, resilience and communication. It is already a vital part of the British Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con): Having met education system, but without it schools, children and secondary heads in northern Devon last week, they communities will permanently lose important formulative clearly articulated how they see this as a watershed educational experiences. moment for education, and a chance we should not miss to revisit how the education system works and the If we are genuinely looking—to coin a phrase—to outcomes it delivers for our young people. I was a newly build back to a better education system after this pandemic, qualified maths teacher just before my election in 2019, we cannot only look to protect this sector but must utilise so I speak with some insight into what is going on in our it more and head off some of those underlying issues schools in northern Devon. I take the opportunity to that I mentioned before. We owe it to the next generation thank everyone who works in them, and for everything to equip them with the tools they need to navigate the they have done throughout the pandemic. I also thank world around them, whether that is online or outdoors. all the parents who have been home-educating, which The pandemic provides an opportunity; I really hope will have ensured this generation of schoolchildren have the Minister and his team will seize that opportunity. learnt many more life skills than perhaps previous generations, given the very difficult year we have all 5.10 pm endured. Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD) [V]: The covid pandemic Northern Devon consists of my constituency of North has taught us to revalue many things that we simply Devon and neighbouring Torridge. As the head of the took for granted. Top of that list is the importance of school where I taught described it, it is located at the top teaching and learning, especially the value of quality of the country’s longest cul-de-sac. The area is remote, 355WH Education After Covid-1923 MARCH 2021 Education After Covid-19 356WH

[Selaine Saxby] Ten months on, this week’s results in the National Audit Office report are damning. The Department did rural and coastal and presents unique challenges that, not even aim to provide equipment to all children who to date, have not been reflected in education policies, lacked it. How does the Minister think that children on nationally or regionally. the wrong side of the digital divide have been able to log For me, levelling up starts with education and skills. in and learn from home? The answer is simple: they have One measure that highlights that there is work to be not. Every click has widened the attainment gap. The done in northern Devon is the social mobility index. Of Government pledged 1.3 million devices, without the 324 local authority district areas, in the south of connectivity, but there are still 300,000 missing. Where Devon, South Hams is ranked at 49 and Exeter 81, yet are they? my constituency ranks 238th and Torridge is at 283. It is now March 2021 and I am still driving around The pandemic has shown how our schools deliver much Mitcham and Morden, dropping donated devices to my more than just the three Rs to our young people and local schools. Although I am very grateful to all the their families. Our headteachers talk of a holistic egality individuals and organisations who are donating devices, strategy for North Devon and Torridge that comprises stepping in where the Government have failed, there education, special educational needs, social services and is still far to go. St Mark’s Academy needs 303 devices, child support. The headteachers are uniquely placed to Harris Academy Morden needs 100, William Morris feed into that long-overdue strategy, and also to manage Primary School needs 50, Stanford Primary School the resources that they need to deliver it within northern needs 15, Liberty Primary School needs 50 and St Teresa’s Devon, more specifically than just Devon. RC Primary School needs 52. As we look into education and building back better, I Before the pandemic, children on free school meals very much hope that the next generation will be inspired were leaving school 18 months behind other children by the work delivered by our world-leading scientists in and the gap was getting worse. How far behind will developing treatments and vaccines for covid-19. I know those on the wrong side of the digital divide have fallen that, locally to me in North Devon, the children at the now? This is no problem for the past; we are now well primary school in Tawstock are keen to become broadband and truly a digital society and there is no going back. engineers after seeing at first hand how Openreach The focus has to be on how these children will catch up, connects their school and having had the chance to and closing the digital divide is an imperative first step. splice fibres and better understand how fibre broadband works and is delivered. 5.20 pm For our levelling-up agenda to be realised we need to Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD) [V]: I better integrate schools with local employers, and embed will start my remarks by focusing upon the plight of our at a far younger age what it means to be an engineer or a outdoor education centres. I am deeply concerned about scientist. This might at last be my opportunity to inspire them. We know that of the 15,000 people who worked more youngsters to pass their maths GCSE, as a ticket in the sector at the beginning of the pandemic, 6,000 to achieving an exciting career near home in lovely have already lost their jobs, and there will be many more North Devon. who are freelance workers and who have not been taken We also need to devise policies that are effective in on again for the seasons that have been missed. remote rural locations and use the expertise of the There has been a complete drying-up of the market teaching profession in those locations to really build for these outdoor education centres and of course there back better. I very much look forward to working with is no direct bespoke financial package for them either. the Minister and the team of fantastic heads in northern We should remember that in Scotland and Northern Devon to begin to move the agenda forward. Ireland there has been a specific financial package to help outdoor education centres. The fact that there has 5.17 pm not been one in England is a reason why we are losing Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab): thousands of staff and beginning to see the closure of One year on from the first lockdown marks an entire year such centres. since schools first closed, so perhaps it is time for the On 22 February, which is now more than a month Department for Education’s performance review. We ago, the Prime Minister read out his road map for the could reflect on the exam results fiasco or the free school unlocking of the country. Lots of things are on that road meals U-turns, or even the utterly irresponsible decision map—an opening date for nightclubs was on it. That is to allow schools to open for just 24 hours in January, very good; I am glad it is there. However, there was enabling the post-Christmas virus to circulate far and nothing for outdoor education centres. If, as I do, the wide, driving up infection rates. However, I will instead Minister speaks to the heads and teachers of primary focus on the remote education support scheme, which and secondary schools, he will discover that those heads will be of vital importance for the topic of today’s debate and teachers throughout primary and secondary education —improving the education system after the pandemic. are desperate to be able to confirm, or indeed to book, After the uncertainty of the opening months it quickly day sessions and residential sessions at our outdoor became clear that the pandemic would have a long-term education centres, many dozens of which are in Cumbria, impact on education, and that connectivity would be especially in my constituency. So, I ask the Minister vital to continue learning. So, back in June, MPs, charities, this: why have he and the Government not added outdoor unions, past Education Secretaries and even a former education centres and their reopening to that road map? Prime Minister all joined me in writing to the Secretary Will the Minister today do three things? First, will he of State to call on his Department to ensure that no announce the road map for the reopening of outdoor child would be left behind because they could not access education centres? Secondly, will he provide a bespoke the internet or a device at home. financial package to keep our outdoor education centres 357WH Education After Covid-1923 MARCH 2021 Education After Covid-19 358WH going and the outdoor education industry’s head above Today’s papers, which I read on the way over—the water, as Scotland and Northern Ireland have done? local and provincial press—were full of photographs of Thirdly, will he do something truly radical and positive, the Education Minister back home meeting some pupils which is to deploy the talent within our outdoor education in schools. There were also pictures of the pupils with centres within schools, to help reconnect our young absolutely glorious smiles. In some cases, they had people with a love of learning, building up the confidence ice-creams—I am not quite sure if it was 9 o’clock in the they may have lost during the pandemic and connecting morning. The teachers, principals and classroom assistants them to education again? Outdoor education centres were all responding very positively, and the hugs that contain people with exactly the set of skills that we need they were giving the children told the story. at this time; the tragedy is that that is exactly the time We have seen that online learning has a role, but there when this Government are allowing those skills to wither is nothing that beats physical presence in schools. I have on the vine. spoken to GCSE teachers recently, and they are very So, will the Minister do those three things? Will he concerned that many children will not go on camera, also pay tribute to the teachers who have made such an and they do not know whether they understand the outstanding contribution in every part of education work. They have said that there is nothing like walking over the last 12 months? Many people are reflecting— around the room to see the children working through, indeed, we all are—that 12 months has passed since the and checking for understanding. That underlines my start of this pandemic. It is right to pay tribute to so view that we can incorporate more online, but we cannot many different people who have been public servants and must not imagine that it can replace what teachers throughout that time, but it is also right to focus in are gifted at doing. Teachers get to know their pupils particular today on the service provided by our teachers. and what works for them. The personal, face-to-face Thinking about what teachers did at the drop of a hat contact really motivates the child individually whenever last March—teach remotely from scratch—we see that, they are falling behind. throughout the time since, they have cared for the I am given to understand that parents have been vulnerable and the most needy, very often providing given access to teaching staff during the pandemic, food for them directly out of their own pockets. We allowing greater communication. It has been wonderful have also seen how, at short notice, they provided ways to build up relationships. That, I believe, should continue of ensuring that assessments were made when exams when we get out of the pandemic, but with appropriate were cancelled; we have seen how they went through guidelines that allow teachers to have their evenings off their school holidays without taking any break whatsoever, without being bombarded. All staff in every job, when in order to get ready for new arrangements, such as they finish their day’s work, should have a balance with covid testing; and we have seen how schools have reopened their home life. There is pressure on pupils, teachers and again, and how they have done so seamlessly and with classroom assistants. attendance maintained at such a high level. Teachers The lessons that we can learn are clear: there is a role have ensured that our young people get the best possible for technology and for face-to-face, and there is also a education, in school if they are the children of key place for greater home-school co-operation. In all this, workers, and at home by remote teaching. there is a need for real investment in our education Teachers’ performance has been outstanding; they system to ensure that children have access to technology, are national treasures. On behalf of every parent in my and that parents are aware of what is happening in their constituency—indeed, I think every parent in the country—I children’s lives. I understand that some parents may not pay tribute to every single one of them. have as big a role in their child’s life, but they need to do that. 5.24 pm I again thank the teaching staff, the pupils, the teachers, the classroom assistants, and everyone in schools who Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): It is a pleasure to went above and beyond, and who have sourced technology speak in this debate. I thank the hon. Member for Isle and contacted parents with concerns above and beyond of Wight (Bob Seely) for setting the scene so very well their hours. We are determined to do all we can to get —we appreciate that. It is good to see the Minister in our children back to where they should be, with no one his place. I think he has always been there—at least it left behind. seems like it. That is not a bad thing, by the way. We very much look forward to his response. Christina Rees (in the Chair): I thank all the speakers Obviously, education is a devolved matter in Northern for staying within the time limit. I call the Opposition Ireland, so the Minister does not have any responsibility spokesperson, Toby Perkins, who can have an extra minute. for it, but I wanted to feed in to this debate and give the perspective of what it is like in Northern Ireland. I 5.28 pm know that what we have experienced in Northern Ireland Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): That is very is the same as what other hon. Members have experienced kind; I appreciate it. It is a great pleasure to serve under across the whole of the United Kingdom. your chairmanship, Ms Rees—even more, now I know I have had many fears for our children during the that you are feeling benevolent. I congratulate the hon. outbreak. I think education probably features fairly Member for Isle of Wight (Bob Seely) on securing the high on the constituency problems page. I have fears for debate, and thank him for sight of his speech in advance. children’s paths of learning, fears for those who have I was expecting to have to express my admiration for his not been able to learn online, fears for their mental optimism that we might, in one hour, address the many health, fears for their social skills—so many fears. The areas of improvement required in our educational system. question is: what will we in this House do to support However, as he made clear, he did not propose to have them through those fears? all the answers in his speech or even to address all the 359WH Education After Covid-1923 MARCH 2021 Education After Covid-19 360WH

[Mr Toby Perkins] Strangford (Jim Shannon) spoke about the number of children falling behind, the pressure throughout the questions. He very sensibly identified some of the issues education system and the need to recognise that in the that a royal commission might look at, and he made response post covid. some practical suggestions for consideration. The Labour Party recognises that a decade of This debate is timely, and the need for substantial underinvestment in our educational system in general—and, action is acute, as we heard from many contributors. as the shadow skills Minister, I would say in further The hon. Member for Isle of Wight understandably education and skills in particular—has left our nation spent some time on the specifics of the education challenges less well prepared for the challenges of the next decade. on the Island. He also identified three national areas for Covid has simply exposed many of those challenges consideration—term and holiday periods, the use of more graphically. Labour also recognises the need for technology, and the coherence of the DFE’s wider an evidence-based response to these challenges post approach to education. On term times, he raised some covid and recently launched the Bright Future taskforce, interesting issues. There are many challenges that come with a dazzling array of contributors who have agreed with the kind of approaches that he outlined, but I to take part. I think they will provide an excellent piece agree that it is useful to discuss them. of work to address this area. My hon. Friend the Member for Mitcham and Morden The taskforce aims to identify the causes of the (Siobhain McDonagh) spoke passionately about the academic attainment gap, as it pertains to poverty, remote support scheme and the digital divide. She said economic disadvantage, race, and many other areas. It that each click had increased the attainment gap. will identify measures that a future Labour Government Notwithstanding the number of schools that have struggled could take to address those causes. Specifically, the to access devices and the number of colleges that have Government must acknowledge that there is a race been completely left out, on technology, I echo the attainment gap, which goes wider than class disparities, endorsement that the hon. Member for Isle of Wight and set specific targets and positive steps to address the made of the fine work done by many schools and number of black, Asian and minority ethnic students colleges to address the academic vacuum that existed in who go from outperforming white students at level 2 to the first lockdown and ensure that things were much getting worse university and work offers and outcomes improved in subsequent ones. I agree that, at a time at level 3 and beyond. when we need young people to leave our educational We also identify many systematic failings with the establishments totally tech savvy, this crisis has opened Government’s approach to skills. Many of these have opportunities that must not simply be set aside in a been caused by the missteps of the last 10 years, but we return to business as usual, post covid. are anxious that the skills White Paper will continue to envisage an approach to education and skills that is far On the coherence of the current system, I could not too corporate, and continues to leave thousands of agree more on schools, further education, the closing of small and medium-sized enterprises and young people Sure Start, the huge growth in different apprenticeship on the side lines. standards, and the extent to which so many academies leave parents feeling they have no voice. We feel strongly Apprenticeships must be the gold standard, and the that this Government have removed the sense of a Government should recognise that their failure on systematic approach to education. I go further than the apprenticeship incentives and on Kickstart means that hon. Member for Isle of Wight and say that, while there they need a fresh approach. I urge the Minister to look are good providers in all areas of our educational again at Labour’s apprenticeship wage subsidy proposal. system, there has to be a more systematic approach that This has been a welcome debate, Ms Rees, and I share empowers learners and their parents, supports educators, the view of the hon. Member for Isle of Wight that the and involves employers and local decision makers. I am Government need to move with real urgency and at afraid to say that the skills White Paper offers little scale if, after all their hard work, our educators are not hope that the Government’s approach is likely to become to be left facing an uphill challenge in giving English much more systematic in the future. youngsters the opportunity to compete in the global race with the very best in the world. I would like to touch on the contributions of many hon. Friends and Members. My hon. Friend the Member 5.34 pm for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Emma Hardy) spoke passionately about the forgotten children with The Minister for School Standards (): It is a special educational needs and posed a challenge that we pleasure to serve for the first time under your chairing look forward to the Minister responding to. The hon. of a debate, Ms Rees. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) was right about the Member for Isle of Wight (Bob Seely) on securing this pressures on our further education system and the need short debate, albeit one on a very important subject for a more holistic approach that recognises the need for matter, and the passionate way in which he opened it. FE and HE to work together. The hon. Member for Covid-19 has presented the education system with the North Devon (Selaine Saxby) described this as a watershed educational challenge of the decade. I take this opportunity moment for education and spoke of the need, which a to thank, once again, all the teachers and support staff lot of us feel, for a Government response that matches for the truly remarkable things they have achieved over the scale of the moment. My hon. Friend the Member the last year, and to echo my hon. Friend’s thanks to the for Mitcham and Morden was excoriating in her analysis teachers and support staff on the Isle of Wight. I also add of the Government’s education record over the covid my thanks to Brian Pope and Steve Crocker, who have crisis. The hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale both been working tirelessly with the Department for (Tim Farron) focused on the challenges facing our Education as we tackle the consequences of the pandemic outdoor education centres, and the hon. Member for on the island, and, of course, elsewhere in the country. 361WH Education After Covid-1923 MARCH 2021 Education After Covid-19 362WH

Our response to this unprecedented situation must be the pandemic. In February, the Prime Minister outlined to build on the successful reforms this Government the road map out of lockdown, and reopening schools have introduced since coming to power in 2010. Over was one of the first steps on that road map. the last decade, we have worked tirelessly to drive up We have evidence of the extent of education lost academic standards for all pupils, especially the most during the covid-19 pandemic, which shows that there disadvantaged. We want every child to have access to a is an impact on all children and young people, but as my great school, where they can gain the knowledge, skills hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight pointed out, and qualifications they need for a prosperous future. those from the most vulnerable and disadvantaged My hon. Friend raised the issue of higher education, backgrounds are among the hardest hit. As part of the and I would be happy to talk further to him about Renaissance Learning data, on 24 February, we published higher education courses on the island, and how they interim findings based on more than 400,000 assessments can and should be provided. He also raised digital taken in the autumn of 2020, which show that in technology, together with my hon. Friends the Members reading, pupils in years 3 to 9 were, on average, between for Barrow and Furness (Simon Fell) and for North 1.6 months and two months behind where we would Devon (Selaine Saxby). have expected them to be. Digital technology has been essential in supporting Emma Hardy: I have a quick question: has the high-quality remote education during the coronavirus Department done any analysis of how many children outbreak. In the long term, it also has the potential, as are now choosing to home educate, and have not returned my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight pointed to either mainstream or special educational needs schools? out, to support teacher workload and flexible working, It is of considerable concern to me, especially when and to improve pupil outcomes. We are building on the considering parents of children with SEND. Department’s significant investment in laptops, tablets, training, and digital services, to create a lasting legacy Nick Gibb: The hon. Member will be pleased to know from that investment. that attendance is very high in primary and secondary My hon. Friend also asked about teaching school hubs schools since we returned to school on 8 March, and of on the Isle of Wight. These are large-scale organisations course, attendance in secondary schools increased over operating in areas covering, on average, about 250 schools. the course of that first week. I will write to her with the The Isle of Wight is therefore covered by the hub area details of special schools’ attendance rates, and about that also covers the districts of Eastleigh, Fareham, the proportion of children with ECHPs and children Gosport, Havant, and Portsmouth, and the teaching with a social worker—we have attendance rates for school hub lead is Thornden School in Eastleigh, which those children as well. Again, the figures are good, but is an outstanding school. of course, they could always be improved. I will write to The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and her, and we can then discuss further her views about Hessle (Emma Hardy) raised the important issue of that. children with special educational needs, and she will In January 2021, the Prime Minister committed to know, as she pointed out in her speech, that we have working with parents, teachers and schools to develop a prioritised the most vulnerable children throughout the long-term plan to help schools support pupils to make pandemic, including those with education, health and up their education over the course of this Parliament. care plans, and special schools have remained open As part of this, we appointed Sir Kevan Collins as during that period for vulnerable children. education recovery commissioner in February to advise The hon. Member will also know that the Government on the approach for education recovery and the have increased high needs funding by £780 million this development of a long-term plan to help pupils make year and by £730 million next year, so, over the course up their education. Last June, we announced a £1 billion of two years, we will have raised high needs funding by catch-up package, including a national tutoring programme 24%. The SEND review,which she referred to, is important, and a catch-up premium for the current academic year, and we will publish it in due course. The delay has been and in February 2021, we committed to further funding caused by the challenges of the pandemic, and we want of £700 million to fund summer schools, expansion of to get this very important review absolutely right. our tutoring programmes, and a recovery premium for the next academic year. That funding will support pupils My hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness in early years, in schools and in colleges. and the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale The £1 billion catch-up package for 2020-21 includes (Tim Farron) raised the important issue of outdoor a £650 million catch-up premium to support state primary education and the importance of such activities for a and secondary schools in making up for lost teaching child’seducation,development,mentalhealthandwellbeing. time. The package includes £350 million for the national The Government continue to work with industry bodies tutoring programme to deliver one-to-one and small and sector representatives to address the issues arising group tuition to hundreds of thousands of pupils,which the from the pandemic, and we will help outdoor education evidence says is an effective way of helping disadvantaged centres plan for the safe reintroduction of educational children, in particular, to catch up. Building on this visits and outdoor education in line with the Prime £1 billion catch-up package, a further £700 million for Minister’s road map. the 2021-22 academic year was announced in February, The covid pandemic has presented one of the greatest and that includes a one-off £302 million recovery premium challenges to our society in recent times. It is undoubtedly and £22 million to scale up well-evidenced programmes, true that extended school and college restrictions have building on the pupil premium. That funding also includes had a substantial impact on the education of children an additional £83 million for the national tutoring and young people, and we are committed to helping programme, and a £102 million extension to the 16 to pupils make up the education that they missed during 19 fund. 363WH Education After Covid-1923 MARCH 2021 Education After Covid-19 364WH

Mr Perkins: The Minister has announced many different material without paying the hefty charges for data use. pots of money. One of the things that really concerns us Wehave partnered with the UK’sleading mobile operators, is that he will allocate money, but these chunks of money as I said, to offer free data, as well as delivering over will not end up getting spent because the mechanisms, 70,000 4G wireless routers for pupils without connection or systems, to get them utilised will end up with those at home. The programmes I have outlined are focused funds not being used. What assurances can he give us that on helping the most disadvantaged pupils, targeting the amounts he is announcing will actually be spent on them for support. the things he is announcing they will be spent on? Alongside those catch-up programmes, we also continue to learn and understand what more is needed to help Nick Gibb: The £650 million, of course, is allocated recover students’ lost education over the course of this to schools on a per pupil basis—£80 per pupil—and Parliament, and we will ensure that support is delivered most of that money has now been distributed. For the in a way that works for both young people and the sector. £300 million that we announced as part of the £700 million, We are also concentrating on the quality of teaching again, the recovery premium is being allocated to schools and making sure that teachers are supported in the early on the basis of the pupil premium eligibility in those schools, years of their careers through the early career framework. so that will be allocated to schools to use at their discretion. We are transforming the training and professional The national tutoring programme is run by the Education development that teachers receive at every stage of their Endowment Foundation, and we have approved 33 tutoring careers to create a world-class teacher development companies: we wanted to make sure that the quality of curriculum and career offer for our teachers. That is one tutoring was there. So far, 130,000 pupils have been of the most important things we can do as we support signed up for the programme, but we envisage reaching schools in recovering. significantly more—something like three quarters of a million students—in this coming academic year. Ultimately, the Government want all pupils to make up for the education they lost as a result of the pandemic. Through the get help with technology programme, We are doing everything in our power to ensure that the Government are investing over £400 million to support pupils get the opportunity they deserve to redress the access to remote education and online social care services, balance. We are absolutely determined as a Government including making 1.3 million laptops and tablets available that no child will suffer any damage to their long-term for disadvantaged children. The hon. Member for Mitcham prospects as a consequence of this terrible pandemic and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh) raised this issue that we are all fighting to defeat. today, as she has done in other debates. She will be aware that we are procuring 1.3 million laptops that Christina Rees (in the Chair): Bob Seely, would you have to be built from scratch. They have to be ordered, like a couple of minutes to sum up? shipped in, checked and have software added. On top of the 1.3 million that we have acquired and procured, there are the 2.9 million devices in schools ready to be 5.48 pm lent to pupils that schools had before the pandemic. Bob Seely [V]: Thank you very much, Ms Rees. I can sum up in a sentence. I absolutely share the Minister’s Siobhain McDonagh: The Minister will know that 1 sentiments when he says that we must do our best to million of those laptops have been distributed. Where is make sure that nobody suffers a long-term disadvantage. the balance of the 300,000? Where are they right now? It is clear that long-term debate about delivering the How does he address the matter of the 880,000 households best education system we can will continue, so I thank that do not have any internet connection, given that you for your chairmanship, Ms Rees, Members for their only 45,000 MiFis or other routers were provided? contributions, and the Minister for attending and listening. Question put and agreed to. Nick Gibb: Actually, 1.2 million of those computers have already been delivered and the remainder will be Resolved, delivered before the end of March. The hon. Member will That this House has considered improving the education system also be aware that we have worked with mobile operator after the covid-19 outbreak. companies to provide free uplift data to disadvantaged families who do not have access to wi-fi in their homes. 5.49 pm They can use their mobile phones to get some educational Sitting adjourned. 33WS Written Statements 23 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 34WS

mechanism for providing compensation to victims Written Statements of the Troubles would not provide accountability for the specific role of the Gaddafi regime in supporting Tuesday 23 March 2021 the IRA. Mr Shawcross also considered whether compensation FOREIGN, COMMONWEALTH AND for UK victims should be funded from Libyan frozen DEVELOPMENT OFFICE assets in the UK. Under international law, when assets are frozen, they continue to belong to the designated individual or entity. Frozen assets may not be seized by Report on Victim Compensation for Gaddafi-sponsored the UK Government. IRA terrorism In implementing financial sanctions, the UK is obliged to comply with the relevant United Nations obligations. The Minister for the Middle East and North Africa UN Security Council resolution 2009 (2011) states that (): In March 2019, the then Foreign the aim of the Libya financial sanctions regime is Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for South “to ensure that assets frozen pursuant to resolutions 1970 (2011) West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt) appointed Mr William and 1973 (2011) shall as soon as possible be made available to and Shawcross as his special representative on UK victims for the benefit of the people of Libya”. of Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism. Mr Shawcross There is also no legal basis for the UK to refuse the was commissioned to write an internal scoping report release of frozen assets once conditions for delisting or on the subject of compensation for UK victims of unfreezing those assets set out in UN Security Council Gaddafi-sponsoredIRAterrorism.MrShawcrosssubmitted resolution 2009 of 2011 are met. his report in March 2020. Therefore, regrettably, the UK has no legal basis to The Government thank Mr Shawcross for his report. seize frozen Libyan assets or to refuse the release of Since it was commissioned as an internal scoping report, frozen assets. The Government cannot lawfully use to provide internal advice to Ministers, and draws Libyan assets frozen in the UK to provide compensation on private and confidential conversations held by to victims. Mr Shawcross, the Government will not be publishing the report. The UK Government have also considered whether they should provide compensation to victims from public These important issues have needed careful and thorough funds, which it may subsequently recoup from Libya. consideration across Government given the complexity The responsibility for providing compensation specifically and sensitivity of the issues raised. for the actions of the Gaddafi regime is the direct The UK Government reiterate their profound sympathy responsibility of the Libyan state. It is not therefore for for UK victims of Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism the UK Government to divert UK public funds specifically and indeed for all victims of the Troubles. We recognise for this particular purpose. the pain and suffering of victims of violent crime, including terrorism, and provide publicly funded support Victims of violent crime, including terrorism, occurring and compensation schemes for those affected. in Great Britain can access the criminal injuries compensation scheme, funded by the UK Government, The UK Government are clear that the primary subject to eligibility criteria and time limits. Bereaved responsibility for the actions of the IRA lies with the family members can access bereavement and funeral IRA. Nevertheless, the Gaddafi regime’s support for payments. In Northern Ireland, victims have access to the IRA was extensive. It is widely documented in the the Northern Ireland criminal injuries compensation public domain. It involved money, weapons, explosives scheme. The Troubles permanent disablement scheme, and training from the 1970s onwards. It helped fuel the to be delivered by the Northern Ireland Executive, will Troubles in Northern Ireland and enhanced the IRA’s provide acknowledgement payments to people living ability to carry out attacks in Northern Ireland and with permanent physical or psychological disablement Great Britain. resulting from being injured in Troubles-related incidents. The responsibility for providing compensation specifically Details of when the scheme will be open for applications, for the actions of the Gaddafi regime lies with the and how people can apply, will be published by the Libyan state. The Government have therefore repeatedly Northern Ireland Executive. urged the Libyan authorities, including at the highest The UK will continue to press the Libyan authorities levels of the Libyan Government, to engage with UK to address the Libyan state’s historic responsibility for victims and their representatives, and to address their the Gaddafi regime’s support for the IRA. claims for compensation. However,there are clear practical difficulties in obtaining [HCWS874] compensation from Libya for Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism. The conflict, political instability and economic instability that have prevailed in Libya for most of the TREASURY last 10 years since the fall of the Gaddafi regime present particular challenges. Mr Shawcross has considered these issues, including Oil and Gas Decommissioning Relief Deeds the difficulties of defining UK victims of Gaddafi- sponsored IRA terrorism given the extensive nature of Libyan support for the IRA, and the range of proposals The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Kemi for providing compensation to victims. The Government Badenoch): At Budget 2013, the Government announced have reflected fully on these issues. The Government’s they would begin signing decommissioning relief deeds. considered view is that an additional, UK-funded These deeds represented a new contractual approach to 35WS Written Statements 23 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 36WS provide oil and gas companies with certainty on the As proposed by the majority of respondents to the level of tax relief they will receive on future consultation, the Government have decided to discount decommissioning costs. conversion as a long-term policy solution and make full Since October 2013, the Government have entered GMP indexation the permanent solution for public into 98 decommissioning relief deeds. service pension schemes. Public service pension schemes will therefore provide full indexation to those public Oil and Gas UK estimates that these deeds have so servants with a GMP reaching state pension age beyond far unlocked approximately £8.1 billion of capital, which 5 April 2021. can now be invested elsewhere. The Government are of the view that this is the most The Government committed to report to Parliament practical solution to GMP indexation. This is because, every year on progress with the decommissioning relief before conversion could be undertaken, schemes would deeds. The report for financial year 2019-20 is provided need to ensure that they have accurate reconciled data, below. along with a finalised methodology to convert those 1. Number of decommissioning relief agreements entered GMP benefits where conversion on a £1:£1 basis would into: the Government entered into four decommissioning relief agreements in 2019-20. not result in equalisation. This is likely to be resource intensive at a time when public service pension schemes 2. Total number of decommissioning relief agreements in force at the end of that year: 96 decommissioning relief do not have the capacity to undertake conversion until agreements were in force at the end of the year. 2024 at the earliest. There also remains a chance that conversion might not be deliverable by then. Furthermore, 3. Number of payments made under any decommissioning relief agreements during that year, and the amount of each the benefits of conversion diminish over time as the payment: two payments were made under a decommissioning number of members with a GMP is steadily reducing. It relief agreement in 2019-20, for £54.6 million in total. These is for these reasons that the Government have decided were made in relation to the provision recognised by to make full GMP indexation the permanent solution HM Treasury in 2015, as a result of a company defaulting for public service pension schemes. on its decommissioning obligations. The consultation set out the benefits of undertaking 4. Total number of payments that have been made under any conversion, which include a reduction in administrative decommissioning relief agreements as at the end of that year, and the total amount of those payments: six payments complexity in the long term regarding those public have been made under any decommissioning relief agreement servants yet to reach state pension age. In addition, some as at the end of the 2019-20 financial year, totalling respondents also highlighted additional benefits of under- £148.6 million. taking conversion, some of which were highlighted in 5. Estimate of the maximum amount liable to be paid under the Government response to the previous GMP indexation any decommissioning relief agreements: the Government and equalisation consultation in 2016-17. However, have not made any changes to the tax regime that would notwithstanding these arguments, the Government does generate a liability to be paid under any decommissioning not consider these benefits to outweigh the benefits of relief agreements.HM Treasury’s2020-21 accounts will recognise making full indexation the permanent solution. a provision of £258.1 million in respect of decommissioning expenditure incurred as a result of a company defaulting on Public service pension schemes will now provide full their decommissioning obligations1. The majority of this is indexation to those public servants with a GMP reaching expected to be realised over the next three years. state pension age from 6 April 2021. The Government 1 This figure takes into account payments made response to the consultation has been published online subsequent to the financial year covered by this written on gov.uk and can be found at: www.gov.uk/government/ ministerial statement. consultations/public-service-pensions-guaranteed- [HCWS872] minimum-pension-indexation-consultation. [HCWS871]

Public Service Pensions: Guaranteed Minimum Pension Indexation Consultation Tax Policies and Consultations

The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Steve Barclay): The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Jesse Norman): The Government are today publishing their response to I have today laid before Parliament “Tax policies and the consultation titled “Public Service Pensions: Guaranteed consultations—Spring 2021” [CP 404]. Minimum Pension (GMP) indexation consultation”. The consultation, which took place between 7 October The measures set out in this Command Paper will and 30 December 2020, considered how the Government shape the next steps in delivering the Government tax will continue to meet past commitments to public service administration strategy, announced in July 2020. The pension members regarding the full indexation of public Command Paper also includes a range of important service pensions, including any GMP element related to policy announcements and updates which will support membership of a public service pension scheme, beyond wider improvements in the tax system, including on 5 April 2021. It considered options to extend the current business rates and environmental taxes, as well as measures GMP indexation methodology to 5 April 2024 or to a to drive down non-compliance and enhance simplification. later date before reconsidering alternative methodologies, By announcing these tax measures and consultations namely conversion, or to make the current methodology separately from the Budget, the Government are seeking the permanent solution. The consultation made clear to provide greater visibility and transparency for that the Government remain fully committed to the parliamentarians, tax professionals and other stakeholders, price protection of GMPs for members of public service in order to increase the overall quality of tax policy pension schemes under any solution adopted. and legislation. 37WS Written Statements 23 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 38WS

Copies of the paper are available in the Vote Office Independent Inquiry into Issues Raised by Paterson and the Printed Paper Office and at: www.gov.uk/ government/publications/tax-policies-and- consultations-spring-2021. The Minister for Patient Safety, Suicide Prevention [HCWS873] and Mental Health (Ms Nadine Dorries): It is now 12 months since the independent inquiry into the issues raised by the convicted breast surgeon, Ian Paterson, published its report. The report made for difficult reading HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE and describes the terrible harms that can occur when the malpractice of an individual, rogue surgeon goes Healthy Weight Programme: Funding for Local unchecked. Authority Weight Management Services In my statement to Parliament on 28 April 2020 I reluctantly announced a delay in our work to respond to the report. The covid-19 pandemic has continued to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health exert unprecedented pressures on the health system, and Social Care (Jo Churchill): On 4 March this year, and this has necessitated a pragmatic response to the the Prime Minister announced an additional £100 million recommendations of the Paterson inquiry. over 2021-22 to support people living with obesity to The independent sector has stepped up and supplied lose weight and maintain healthier lifestyles. I am pleased much needed additional capacity for the NHS in its to confirm that the Government are dedicating £34.9 million treatment of NHS patients during the response to the of this new funding to support the expansion of local pandemic. authority weight management services for adults, children, and families. Funds will be allocated via two ringfenced We have taken stock of all the recommendations and grants under section 31 of the Local Government Act 2003 engaged with stakeholders across the system to gather and will be available to local authorities for 12 months views on the best way forwards. As part of this we have from the beginning of the 2021-22 financial year. listened carefully to former patients of Ian Paterson The first grant will distribute £30.5 million among through regular conversations with representatives of all local authorities in England to commission adult the three main patient groups and a bespoke event to behavioural weight management services, based on ensure their voices are heard. population size, obesity prevalence, and deprivation. The immediate safety of patients has been our top The funding is conditional on local authorities priority and we have sought and received reassurance commissioning new, or expanding existing, behavioural that the recalls of patients by University Hospitals weight management services, providing information on Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust and Spire Healthcare current service provision, and regularly submitting user have proceeded as quickly as possible. data. This will be critical to demonstrate what works as When the recommendations have provided a clear we build a long-term approach to behavioural weight way forward, we have worked with our system partners management services. The grant circular, setting out to put in place, or require, effective action. We will local authority allocations and the funding conditions, continue to consider all the recommendations and produce will be published on gov.uk today. a full response to the inquiry’s 15 recommendations The second grant will distribute £4.4 million to test during 2021. the expansion of behavioural weight management services Today I am able to update the House on the for children and families and pilot an intervention to Government’s initial response to the following five improve access to local services for children identified recommendations of the independent inquiry into the as overweight or obese through the national child issues raised by Paterson, and update on three other measurement programme. All local authorities may submit developments. an expression of interest for this funding. Funding will be allocated to local authorities according to the strength Recommendation 2—Information to patients: We of their application and local need based on population recommend that it should be standardpractice that consultants size, child obesity prevalence and child-specific deprivation in both the NHS and the independent sector should write measures. The government will look to fund up to to patients, outlining their condition and treatment, in 10 areas, depending on the volume and strength of simple language, and copy this letter to the patient’s GP, applications received. As with the adult grant, funding rather than writing to the GP and sending a copy to the will be conditional on successful local authorities: patient. commissioning behavioural weight management services NHS England and NHS Improvement will examine for children and families; piloting an extended brief how current guidance published by the Academy of intervention linked to the national child measurement Medical Royal Colleges (AoMRC) in 2018 on writing programme; providing information on current child outpatient clinical letters addressed to patients (and and family service provision; and regularly submitting copied to their GP) using simple, appropriate language outcome data using a standardised dataset. The expression can be incorporated into the requirements of the NHS of interest for child and family weight management standard contract. services will be announced on gov.uk today. Recommendation 4—Consent: We recommend that Public Health England will administer both grants and there should be a short period introduced into the process will be working closely with the Department of Health of patients giving consent for surgical procedures, to and Social Care to monitor and evaluate this important allow them time to reflect on their diagnosis and treatment investment in behavioural weight management services. options. We recommend that the GMC monitors this as [HCWS868] part of “Good medical practice”. 39WS Written Statements 23 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 40WS

TheGeneralMedicalCouncil(GMC)publisheditsrevised First, prior to the publication of the recommendations of good practice guidance on consent on 30 September 2020. the Independent Medicines and Medical Devices Safety This came into effect on 9 November 2020 and sets out Review the Government acted in June last year to amend the seven principles of decision making and consent, including then Medicines and Medical Devices Bill to create the power to establish a UK-wide medical device information system. givingpatientstheinformationtheyneedtomakeadecision This system will mean that in future, subject to regulations, and the time and support they need to understand it. we can routinely collect medical device, procedure and outcome The GMC will work with organisations across the UK’s data from both NHS and private provider organisations health services to support doctors to embed this into across the UK, ensuring that no patient in the UK falls their everyday practice. through the gaps. The Government are also considering how best to supply patients with the details of any device that has Recommendation 5—Multidisciplinary team (MDT): been implanted, to ensure they can continue to access that We recommend that CQC as a matter of urgency, should information in the future. assure itself that all hospital providers are complying Secondly, following the Independent Medicines and Medical effectively with up-to-date national guidance on MDT Devices Safety Review the Government are establishing a meetings, including in breast cancer care, and that patients patient safety commissioner (PSC) for England with are not at risk of harm due to non-compliance in this area. responsibility for medicines and medical devices. The main duties and powers of the PSC are detailed in the Medicines Specific questions relating to MDT are already included and Medical Devices Act which achieved Royal Assent on in appropriate CQC service frameworks. As part of a 11 February 2021 and establishes the commissioner role. The longer-term strategy (based upon a short and medium PSC for England will be able to exercise their powers in both the independent sector and the NHS. term action plan that includes) this recommendation Thirdly, the White Paper, published in February 2021 setting the CQC will work to ensure these become mandatory out legislative proposals for the Health and Care Bill, announced elements of its assessment and inspection approaches our intention to extend the remit of the Health Service and communicate its expectations to service providers. Safety Investigation Branch to private providers. Recommendation 7—Patient recall and ongoing care: The report of the Paterson inquiry shone a light on a We recommend that the University Hospitals Birmingham set of harrowing events over many years and recommended NHS Foundation Trust board should check that all patients a way forward to improve safety and quality in both the of Paterson have been recalled, and to communicate with NHS and the independent sector. I believe it is right any who have not been seen. that we have taken urgent action where we can, and we will respond in full to the inquiry during 2021. University Hospitals Birmingham NHS Foundation [HCWS869] Trust (UHB) contacted 4,394 patients between May and August 2020. This has given rise to 355 enquiries. Following receipt of each enquiry, the patient/relative was contacted directly by a member of a dedicated team HOME DEPARTMENT to ensure that the trust was responding in a way that was respectful and responsive to individual patient Operation in 2019 of Terrorism Acts: Report of the preferences.For patients who underwent a breast procedure, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation care was reviewed by a consultant breast surgeon who was independent from the trust. For patients who had a general procedure e.g. hernia repair or a varicose veins/other The Secretary of State for the Home Department vascular procedure, care was reviewed by a consultant (): Jonathan Hall QC, the Independent Reviewer from UHB. of Terrorism Legislation, has prepared a report on the Recommendation 8—Patient recall and ongoing care: operation in 2019 of the Terrorism Acts. We recommend that Spire should check that all patients In accordance with section 36(5) of the Terrorism of Paterson have been recalled, and to communicate with Act 2006,1 am today laying this report before the House, any who have not been seen, and that they should check that and copies will be available in the Vote Office. It will they have been given an ongoing treatment plan in the also be published on gov.uk. same way that has been provided for patients in the NHS. I am grateful to Mr Hall for his report. I will carefully consider its contents and the recommendations he makes By December 2020 Spire Healthcare had contacted and will respond formally in due course. all known living patients of Ian Paterson for whom they had addresses (approximately 5,500). Spire Healthcare [HCWS870] is currently ensuring that those patients’ care has been fully reviewed, that the outcome of the reviews has been fully communicated to them and that, if required, they NORTHERN IRELAND are getting the support and care that they needed. Additionally, several hundred people have contacted Spire as a result of the letters sent out last year. A The Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2021 proportion of these are having their care reviewed by an independent consultant surgeon and some have been referred for counselling, follow up support or, where The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Brandon clinically appropriate, treatment. Spire Healthcare will Lewis): Yesterday the Minister of State made the Abortion continue their review of patients’ care during 2021. (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2021 which are today being laid before Parliament. The regulations have been In addition, we are taking three legislative actions to made because women and girls in Northern Ireland are drive up patient safety and ensure care provided by the stillunabletoaccesshigh-qualityabortionandpost-abortion independent sector is closely scrutinised. care in Northern Ireland. 41WS Written Statements 23 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 42WS

The regulations have been made to ensure, as required However, more needs to be done with respect to by the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act formally commissioning abortion services and supporting 2019, that all of the recommendations in paragraphs 85 the rights of women and girls in accessing safe local and 86 of the 2018 UN Committee on the Elimination services and relevant support measures; as well as putting of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) report in place clear guidance for medical professionals. are implemented in Northern Ireland. While Parliament considers the regulations, we will We are disappointed with the continuing failure to continue to engage with the Minister of Health and the commission abortion services that are consistent with Executive to try and find a way forward over the coming the regulations we made almost a year ago. After a year weeks before any direction is given. of engaging to see positive progress made, with no success, Wehave used every opportunity and avenue to encourage the legal duties included in section 9 of the NIEF Act progress and offer our support over the past year so we are such that I have to act now. are disappointed that we have reached this impasse. We The Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2021 take this step now to further demonstrate our commitment laid in Parliament today give me a power to direct to ensuring women and girls can safely access abortion Northern Ireland Ministers and departments or relevant services in Northern Ireland. agencies to implement all of the recommendations in [HCWS875] paragraphs 85 and 86 of the CEDAW report, consistent with the conditions set out in the Abortion (Northern Ireland) (No.2) Regulations 2020. TRANSPORT Wedo not take this step lightly.However,the devolution settlement does not absolve us of our responsibility to uphold the rights of women and girls. Our strong HS2 Six-monthly Report to Parliament preference remains for the Northern Ireland Executive to take responsibility itself for upholding these rights. It has always been our expectation and preference The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Andrew that the Department of Health would drive forward the Stephenson): I wish to make the following statement: commissioning of abortion services. The approach we Overview took was to put in place the legal framework for how This is the second bi-annual update to Parliament on abortion services could be accessed and provided, consistent the progress of High Speed Two (HS2). It marks one with our legal duties. However, it is crucial that abortion, year since the Government gave phase 1 of the scheme, as a healthcare service, is delivered and overseen locally between the west midlands and London, the green light by the Department of Health and relevant health bodies to begin civils construction. The report uses data provided with the relevant legal powers, policy and operational by HS2 Ltd to the HS2 ministerial taskforce for phases 1 expertise to do so. This ensures that abortion can be and 2a and covers the period between September 2020 delivered in a sustainable way, and become embedded and January 2021 inclusive. Copies of this report have into the health and social care system in Northern been placed in the Libraries of both Houses. Ireland in the long term. Covid-19 has made this an incredibly challenging In March 2020, I wrote to the relevant Northern year, and the pandemic has had a devastating effect on Ireland Ministers to achieve this, by asking that they individuals, our economy and our communities. However, work to ensure the implementation of all of the as we look to the future, with the roll-out of the vaccine recommendations under paragraphs 85 and 86 of the firmly under way and a road map out of lockdown now CEDAW report. We had anticipated this would be in place, this Government are more committed than acted upon at the earliest opportunity. ever to “build back better”. HS2 remains at the forefront Over this past year the Northern Ireland Office has of our long-term investment plan to better connect continued to work closely with the Department of Health, people and places, boost productivity and create jobs to and other relevant Northern Ireland departments, trying help rebalance opportunity across the UK. to progress this work. I, together with the Minister of State, Just as importantly, HS2 will play a pivotal role in have continued to engage through political channels to creating a greener alternative to regional air and road encourage positive progress by the devolved Administration. travel. This is essential if we are to meet our commitment However, almost one year later, women and girls are to bring greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050. stillunabletoaccesshigh-qualityabortionandpost-abortion The key achievements of the HS2 programme in this care locally in Northern Ireland in all of the circumstances reporting period include: in which they are entitled to under the 2020 regulations. Progressing the remaining enabling works and mobilising We understand that managing the covid-19 response main civils construction for phase 1 while employing covid-safe has been an immense challenge, and has placed the working practices. health and social care system in Northern Ireland under Achieving Royal Assent of the Phase 2a High Speed Rail considerable pressure. (West Midlands - Crewe) Bill, cementing in lawthe Government’s I put on record my thanks to the medical professionals commitment to bring the new high-speed railway to the north of England. who have ensured that women and girls have had some local access to abortion services in Northern Ireland to Evolving our approach to community engagement, including an enhanced complaints procedure to address concerns about date, and the organisations that have supported this how HS2’s impact on communities along the line of route is work, particularly in the current circumstances and managed. wider strains on the health system. This includes the Speedy implementation of over a quarter of the proposed work that Informing Choices Northern Ireland have reforms recommended by the land and property review of taken forward on the central access point and counselling November 2020, improving the experience of property owners service for women and girls since April last year. most immediately and directly affected by HS2. 43WS Written Statements 23 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 44WS

Supporting over 15,000 skilled jobs and creating more than to address potential pressures is now under way. This may be 500 apprenticeships. Over 2,100 companies now have contracts an underestimate of the unmitigated pressure,so the Department with HS2 Ltd, with 97% of these being UK-based businesses. has asked HS2 Ltd to provide a revised estimate once it has At its peak the programme will support over 30,000 jobs and concluded its initial design work on the revised design as set create at least 2,000 apprenticeships. out below. Establishing HS2 Ltd’sEnvironmental Sustainability Committee My last report to Parliament included £0.4 billion to strengthen oversight and reporting of efforts to limit and from expected increases in the scope and duration of mitigate the environmental impacts from the construction of the railway. enabling works. These costs are now expected to be incurred and so are not shown as pressures but have Planting over 430,000 trees so far, with the number expected instead been taken into the core cost estimate. They will to rise to over 730,000 trees by spring 2021. be funded through surplus provision within HS2 Ltd’s Programme update on schedule, affordability and core budget rather than from its delegated contingency. delivery Estimates of the impact of covid-19 are set out below. Schedule Other pressures will arise as the programme progresses, Some schedule pressures on phase 1 have emerged some of which may crystallise into additional costs that from delays in completing enabling works including will need to be covered from the contingency within the issues with completing utilities diversions, postponed existing budget, and some of which will be mitigated or land acquisition and access during the first covid-19 avoided. lockdown, and slower than planned development of detailed designs by the main works contractors. Over the last six months HS2 Ltd has made progress on a programme of opportunities for efficiencies designed HS2 Ltd is currently re-planning its schedule for to identify and realise tangible savings in delivering the phase 1 in conjunction with its construction suppliers agreed scope of phase 1. From a deeper pool of potential with a view to mitigating these delays. The schedule opportunities, HS2 Ltd has so far identified up to pressures reported above will not impact the projected £0.2 billion to pursue to the next stages of development. delivery into service date range of 2029 to 2033 set last Going forward I will report on progress towards realisation year, but further cost pressures could still emerge if of these opportunities as well as the identification of mitigation activity is required. The re-planning exercise others through this efficiency programme. is due to conclude in the spring and I will update Parliament on its outcome in my next report. We should Delivery continue to remain cautious of the accuracy of long-range estimates this early in a 10-year programme. On phase 1 the focus has primarily been on progressing Affordability the remaining enabling works and preparatory works, and the start of main works. This includes dedicated The overall budget for phase 1, including Euston, is power at launch sites for the tunnel boring machines £44.6 billion (2019 prices). This is composed of the (TBMs) by the M25 and Long Itchington in Warwickshire, target cost of £40.3 billion and additional Government- and moving two huge modular bridges into place at the retained contingency of £4.3 billion. The target cost Birmingham Interchange station site. The first pair of includes contingency delegated to HS2 Ltd of £5.6 billion TBMs, Florence and Cecilia, will launch this summer. for managing the risk and uncertainties that are an inherent part of delivering major projects. Elsewhere, progress continues to be made on the four new HS2 stations. At Euston, work is under way to The target cost for phase 1 remains at £40.3 billion. develop an optimised design and delivery strategy,alongside Around £11.0 billion (actual prices) has been spent to work by the Euston Partnership to integrate the HS2 date,including land and property provisions.Approximately and Network Rail stations and wider placemaking across £12.6 billion (2019 prices) has additionally been contracted, the Euston campus. The Department has instructed with the remaining amount yet to be contracted. HS2 Ltd to investigate whether building the station in a Todate HS2 Ltd has drawn £0.4 billion of its £5.6 billion single construction stage can speed up delivery and delegated contingency to specific additional costs, which address cost pressures. Notwithstanding this, bringing represents 4% of the overall contingency for phase 1, the station fully back within its existing budget presents and reflects an increase of £0.2 billion since my last a significant challenge. The initial stage of this work is report. HS2 Ltd is currently reporting potential cost expected to conclude in the coming months, at which pressures of around £0.8 billion over and above this. If point the Government will confirm any design changes these, or other costs, come to pass, then they would be and set out their intended way forward at Euston. managed from within the existing total budget using the remaining HS2 Ltd delegated contingency. In the case The start of main construction of Old Oak Common of verified cost increases resulting from covid-19, these station has now been approved and excavation work for will be managed from within the Government-retained the HS2 underground platforms can begin. I also note contingency. the High Court’s dismissal of Bechtel Ltd’s legal challenge to the Old Oak Common station construction partner The cost pressures currently being reported by HS2 award, which found that HS2 Ltd’s procurement process Ltd which may require a call on contingent if not was in accordance with the rules of the tender and mitigated are: procurement law. An estimate of £0.4 billion, predominately due to slower than expected mobilisation of main works civils contractors, Tender evaluation is under way ahead of the planned associated with delays to approvals of designs, planning award by the summer of a construction partner for consents, protestor action and some covid-19 impacts. Birmingham Curzon Street station and tendering for a As already reported in the autumn report to Parliament, an construction partner at Birmingham Interchange station estimate of £0.4 billion that relates to Euston station remains. is expected to begin this summer. Budget 2021 announced Work to consider opportunities,efficiencies and scope reductions £50 million of funding to develop transport proposals 45WS Written Statements 23 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 46WS around Birmingham Interchange. This will be matched HS2 Ltd’s initial estimates suggest that the financial by £45 million of funding from Arden Cross Ltd and impact of covid-19 on the cost of delivering phase 1 up Solihull Metropolitan Borough Council. This will support to December 2020 is between £0.3 billion and £0.4 billion, the goal of the West Midlands Combined Authority, by largely as a consequence of schedule prolongation from reconfiguring planned car parking at the regional hub access delays and reduced productivity. station, releasing 28 hectares of land space for new A proportion of this estimate is already captured businesses, homes and jobs in the area. within the cost pressures that I have set out above. The Qualification of bidders is under way for the majority of full impact of covid-19 on cost and schedule will continue the rail systems packages for phases 1 and 2a ahead of to be assessed, including work to disaggregate covid-19 inviting tenders. HS2 Ltd is finalising the procurement impacts from other cost and schedule impacts on the of the new HS2 rolling stock for phases 1 and 2a, with programme. The Department will be scrutinising these the contract to be awarded later this spring. costs very carefully, and only validated and unavoidable I am a very pleased to report that the HS2 Phase 2a costs arising from covid-19 will be funded from the Act, for the section of the route between Lichfield and Government-retained contingency, and therefore covered Crewe, was given Royal Assent in February, after its by the existing HS2 budget. I will continue to update passage through Parliament. This represents a major Parliament through my reports as this work progresses. milestone for the programme and HS2 Ltd can now Local community impact and engagement begin accessing and acquiring land for the necessary construction works as well as taking forward early Since my appointment as Minister for HS2 I have environmental and enabling works. been clear that managing the programme’s impact on communities along the line of the route is one of my Phase 2a will bring high-speed services to the north, key priorities. That is why last autumn I commissioned helping to realise the benefits of the whole programme a detailed review of the acquisition and compensation and to underpin future phases of the scheme, while also process for land and property affected by HS2. The supporting regional economic growth through the conclusions of the review, detailing opportunities for construction stage. change across a wide variety of policies and activities, Local consultation on the scheme was undertaken were published in November and will ensure that there during February and I will publish the consultation is a renewed focus on those people who are being report in April before detailing the response to its directly impacted by the new railway. findings in June, following the election period. The proposals vary in scale and context, but all seek With formal agreement on the scope of the phase 2a to improve the experience of property owners most scheme now set, the funding and schedule ranges will be immediately and directly affected by HS2 by improving finalised alongside the delivery model for the construction existing processes and interaction with the public. The works. I will provide more information to Parliament Department has worked quickly on implementing the once this work has concluded. proposals, in close conjunction with HS2 Ltd, the residents’ commissioner (Deborah Fazan) and relevant Government Before the end of spring, the Department will publish Departments, with 25% now in place. I expect to begin a the integrated rail plan for the north and midlands (IRP) public consultation later this spring to focus on aspects which will consider how best to deliver and sequence of the proposals that require further engagement. Alongside HS2 phase 2b, Northern Powerhouse Rail, and the land and property review, I am continuing to engage other major rail schemes including schemes within midlands closely with parliamentary colleagues and the communities engine rail such as midlands rail hub, to ensure they represent. transformational rail improvements are delivered to passengers and communities more quickly. Due to the scale and nature of the HS2 project, some Preparations are under way for a Hybrid Bill for the impacts of construction on line of route communities western leg (Crewe to Manchester) and supporting outline are unfortunately unavoidable. This January, at the business case (OBC) to be deposited in Parliament in Transport Select Committee, I heard first-hand how early 2022, or sooner if possible. Further updates on HS2 construction is impacting on communities. The cost and schedule will be provided at the time the OBC testimonies I heard were powerful and strengthened my is published. resolute commitment to ensure that HS2 Ltd properly informs and consults communities and minimises negative impacts wherever possible. I have therefore tasked HS2 Ltd Impacts from covid-19 to look again at the way it engages communities to Although covid-19 continues to pose a considerable improve the responsiveness, sensitivity and objectivity challenge to the programme, HS2 Ltd and its supply of its approach. chain continues to adapt positively. In the early stages In response, HS2 Ltd is deploying a package of of the pandemic, HS2 Ltd successfully kept a high measures to strengthen its community handling approach proportion of its sites open and operating safely and at including: the time of writing this report 100% of HS2 sites are open, in part due to the collaboration and innovation A unified single management system for community engagement between HS2 Ltd and its supply chain through initiatives and complaints handling across HS2 Ltd and the supply such as rapid testing and the introduction of new social chain, so there is a single consistent record for all organisations operating in a single location. distancing technology. Health and safety guidance at work sites continues to be rigorously followed and Additional proactive local communications to provide notice remains under constant review.Nothing is more important and raise awareness of HS2 activity in impacted communities. than the wellbeing of the communities we are working Shortened HS2 Ltd helpdesk response times so that construction in and the safety of everyone working on HS2. issues can be picked up, assessed and mitigated quickly. 47WS Written Statements 23 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 48WS

New area-based delivery unit managers with geographical Forward look responsibility for joining up construction contractors and communities to prevent and tackle local issues. As well as continued focus on its construction programme for phase 1, the next six months will see HS2 Ltd award New briefing materials to alert MPs and councillors of the contracts for a construction partner at Birmingham agreed single points of contact along the phase 1 and 2a routes so issues can be escalated if they are not resolved in Curzon Street and for the supply of the new HS2 rolling the first instance. stock. Work to identify affordable design and delivery arrangements for Euston station is also expected to Enhanced engagement and assurance from the construction progress. commissioner (Sir Mark Worthington) and the residents’ commissioner to provide independent advice on potential On phase 2a we will conclude work on a preferred improvements to HS2 Ltd complaint handling and community delivery model for the construction stage as well as engagement operations. finalising the funding and schedule ranges for the project’s I have furthermore established a small team of schedule and cost. Work on the legislation and business construction inspectors reporting to the Department to case for the phase 2b western leg will also continue and support the assurance of the delivery of works along the integrated rail plan will be published this spring. the route. An important part of their role will also be to I will continue to engage closely with Members of provide a capability to investigate intractable or persistent Parliament and will provide my next report to Parliament construction issues working independently of HS2 Ltd in October 2021. and its suppliers where needed. Financial Annex I expect these measures to improve engagement and Annex A: Six-monthly financial report responsiveness in relation to avoidable impacts of Total Estimated construction on local communities. I will continue to Phase Target Cost Costs Ranges review this and remain committed to taking further action if necessary. 1 £40.3 billion £35.0-£45.0 billion Forecast 2a Not set yet £5.0-£7.0 billion Environmental Impact costs by phase Another of my key pledges as HS2 Minister is to 2b Not set yet £32.0-£46.0 billion* limit the unavoidable impact of HS2 construction on the natural environment both in terms of direct impacts *Validation of the Phase 2b cost range is ongoing and will be updated to support the bringing forward of separate legislation on biodiversity and its carbon impact. for the HS2 route into Manchester, in line with the conclusions of The first report of the HS2 Ltd Environmental the Oakervee review. The range provided excludes scope intended Sustainability Committee will be published in the autumn. to be funded by other sources such as Northern Powerhouse The approach and content of the report will be informed Rail. by the global reporting initiative methodology, and will Spend 2020-21 also be shaped by seeking input from Natural England, Phase to date** 2020-21 Budget Forecast the Environment Agency, the Forestry Commission, the HS2 Independent Design Panel and members of HS2 1 £11.0 £3.79 billion £3.33 billion Ltd’s Ecology Review Group. The Government have billion*** also given a statutory commitment to provide an impact Historic 2a £0.4 billion £0.18 billion £0.13 billion and assessment of construction on ancient woodland within forecast the report, building on previously conducted assessments. expenditure The environmental impact data in the report will be 2b £1.0 billion £0.25 billion £0.16 billion verified externally. Total £12.4 £4.22 billion £3.62 billion Alongside the new Committee, HS2 Ltd launched its billion “Green Corridor Prospectus” in December, providing All figures in 2019 prices, are exclusive of VAT and information to the public on projects along the route correct as of 31 January 2021 and made up of a which are being introduced to mitigate and compensate combination of resource and capital spend. for the environmental impact of HS2’s construction. This includes over 30 projects funded through the **Spend to date is represented in outturn prices. community and environment fund, and the business ***Spend to date includes a £1 billion liability (provision) representing the Department’s obligation to purchase land and and local economy fund, which add benefit over and property. above committed mitigation and statutory compensation. [HCWS867] Further to the commitments made in my last report to support biodiversity improvements on phase 2a, the Department and HS2 Ltd have initiated a study to HOUSING, COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL investigate options to consider whether and how we GOVERNMENT might move the HS2 phase 2b western leg scheme from seeking no net loss to aiming to deliver net gains in Expanding DWP Services biodiversity. HS2 Ltd has become the first UK transport client The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work organisation to achieve PAS 2080 accreditation a gold and Pensions (): As part of the Government’s standard for carbon management across the globe. It ongoing commitment to support claimants back into will continue its work to reduce carbon emissions during work, DWP is moving at pace this spring and summer construction and operation ahead of COP26 later to introduce new jobcentres, as a direct response to this year. the pandemic. 49WS Written Statements 23 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 50WS

On top of the 13,500 new work coaches who will be These new sites provide a high-quality, modern and in place by the end of this financial year, this expansion digitally enabled environment for both colleagues and of our Jobcentre network will bolster existing capacity, customers. As part of our design requirements, we are enabling work coaches to provide tailored, face-to-face reducing the environmental impact, for example, by support in a covid-secure environment. This expansion increasing the energy performance certificate rating across will drive forward our ambitious £30 billion Plan for sites. This is something DWP is committed to, as part of Jobs, helping people back into the labour market right the programme to review and renew our estates. across the UK. The expansion programme will itself create a further During the pandemic, DWP successfully pivoted to a 1,500 ancillary jobs when the sites open, as well as more multi-channelled approach, offering more digital construction jobs generated by the work needed to support in line with social distancing measures. However, repurpose the buildings and the supply chain to furnish as restrictions ease, it is vital we adapt our services and them, boosting local economies and providing crucial reintroduce face-to-face support, given that we know support across the country. how effective this has been for our claimants in the past. The sites being secured are predominantly in major As the economy recovers, we will review the need for centres. All new sites meet the planning requirements these temporary sites on an ongoing basis, to ensure we for a jobcentre, which means they are fully accessible for are continuing to strike the right balance between providing colleagues and customers, with good transport links. essential services for claimants and delivering value for money for the taxpayer. Leases have already been secured on 80 sites. A list of This is not about reversing previous decisions on the these sites can be found on gov.uk, and will be continually broader renewal of the DWP estate, rather it is a updated as and when new site leases are agreed. temporary measure, in direct response to the pressures [HCWS876] the pandemic has placed on the labour market.

3MC Ministerial Corrections23 MARCH 2021 Ministerial Corrections 4MC

all working together. We provided £50 million of funding, Ministerial Correction which Unilever matched in hygiene products and expertise in promoting behaviour change. Tuesday 23 March 2021 [Official Report, 18 March 2021, Vol. 691, c. 590.] Letter of correction from the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton). FOREIGN, COMMONWEALTH AND An error has been identified in my response to the DEVELOPMENT OFFICE debate. World Water Day The correct response should have been: The following is an extract from the Backbench business Wendy Morton: The UK Government take the issue debate on World Water Day on 18 March 2021. of water and sanitation very seriously, as a development concern and as part of our approach to dealing with Wendy Morton: The UK Government take the issue covid-19. Members have raised the importance of hand of water and sanitation very seriously, as a development washing. Recognising that hand hygiene is a critical concern and as part of our approach to dealing with element to tackle the virus, in March last year we forged covid-19. Members have raised the importance of hand a unique partnership with Unilever: the Hygiene and washing. Recognising that hand hygiene is a critical Behaviour Change Coalition. It is a brilliant example of element to tackle the virus, in March last year we forged what we can achieve through partnership, with the private a unique partnership with Unilever: the Hygiene and sector,the public sector,civil society and research institutions Behaviour Change Coalition. It is a brilliant example of all working together. We provided up to £50 million of what we can achieve through partnership, with the private funding, which Unilever matched in hygiene products sector,the public sector,civil society and research institutions and expertise in promoting behaviour change.

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 23 March 2021

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL STRATEGY— STRATEGY ...... 773 continued British Steel Production ...... 784 Queen’s Speech: Employment Legislation ...... 774 Covid-19: Supply Chain Businesses...... 782 Rural Electricity Grid Investment: Electric Covid-19: Support for Businesses...... 786 Vehicles...... 778 Covid-19: Wedding Industry ...... 777 Support for Businesses: Discussions with the Dismiss and Re-engage Tactics in Negotiations ..... 779 Chancellor ...... 775 Energy Efficiency in Homes ...... 780 Topical Questions ...... 787 Energy Transition Projects in Scotland ...... 785 TV Advertising Restrictions to Reduce Obesity ..... 773 Horizon Europe ...... 784 Vaccine Taskforce ...... 777 Paid Neonatal Leave ...... 783 Women in Business ...... 776 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Tuesday 23 March 2021

Col. No. Col. No. FOREIGN, COMMONWEALTH AND HOUSING, COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL DEVELOPMENT OFFICE...... 33WS GOVERNMENT...... 48WS Report on Victim Compensation for Gaddafi- Expanding DWP Services ...... 48WS sponsored IRA terrorism ...... 33WS NORTHERN IRELAND...... 40WS HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE...... 37WS The Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations Healthy Weight Programme: Funding for Local 2021 ...... 40WS Authority Weight Management Services ...... 37WS Independent Inquiry into Issues Raised by TRANSPORT ...... 42WS Paterson...... 38WS HS2 Six-monthly Report to Parliament ...... 42WS TREASURY ...... 34WS HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 40WS Oil and Gas Decommissioning Relief Deeds...... 34WS Operation in 2019 of Terrorism Acts: Report of Public Service Pensions: Guaranteed Minimum the Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Pension Indexation Consultation ...... 35WS Legislation ...... 40WS Tax Policies and Consultations ...... 36WS MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Tuesday 23 March 2021

Col. No. FOREIGN, COMMONWEALTH AND DEVELOPMENT OFFICE...... 3MC World Water Day ...... 3MC No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked on a copy of the daily Hansard - not telephoned - and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Tuesday 30 March 2021

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF BOUND VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), by applying to the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons. Volume 691 Tuesday No. 195 23 March 2021

CONTENTS

Tuesday 23 March 2021

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 773] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy

Defence and Security Industrial Strategy [Col. 795] Statement—(Jeremy Quin)

First-Aid (Mental Health) [Col. 816] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Dean Russell)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Advanced Research and Invention Agency Bill [Col. 889] Motion for Second Reading—(Kwasi Kwarteng)—agreed to Read a Second time

Petitions [Col. 891]

ANPR and Width Restrictions [Col. 893] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Live Events: Government-backed Insurance [Col. 293WH] Smoke-free Society by 2030 [Col. 313WH] Outer London: Congestion Charge [Col. 321WH] Battle of Barnet: 550th Anniversary [Col. 342WH] Education After Covid-19 [Col. 348WH] General Debates

Written Statements [Col. 33WS]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 3MC]

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]