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Download Transcript (PDF) TRANSCRIPT A PINEWOOD DIALOGUE WITH TODD HAYNES AND BRUCE GREENWOOD Todd Haynes reinvented the biopic with his movie I'm Not There, a kaleidoscopic portrait of Bob Dylan—and the 1960s—with six different actors, including Cate Blanchett and Richard Gere, playing variations of Dylan. This discussion with Haynes and actor Bruce Greenwood, who plays the journalist "Mr. Jones," demonstrates that Haynes was not just interested in exploring the details of Dylan's life, but of the fundamental concept of identity as a form of performance, a theme central to all of his films. A Pinewood Dialogue following a screening of Dylan at a time in my life where I think I needed to I’m Not There, moderated by Chief Curator be reminded about something that I associated David Schwartz (November 10, 2007): with that earlier part of my life; a kind of fearlessness and a kind of devil-may-care quality in DAVID SCHWARTZ: Please welcome Todd Haynes. his voice, in his music, in his whole attitude, that I (Applause) Well, congratulations. It’s just an think I needed at the end of my thirties as a amazing achievement. (Applause) reminder that change is good, and change is necessary in your life, and it can really help you TODD HAYNES: Thank you. Thank you. That’s so move forward or make changes when you need nice. Thank you. them. Those are harder things to remember as you get older. It’s a lot easier when you’re young and it SCHWARTZ: One thing it really does is capture what makes a lot of sense. is special about Dylan’s music, which—I think so many of us probably have had the experience of SCHWARTZ: You made a big change—all of us were turning to his music at important times in our lives, sorry to see you move out of Brooklyn (Haynes and when you’re searching for something. Tell us laughs) and out of Williamsburg, to Portland. We what Dylan’s music meant to you, because I’m said, “What is going on here?” But was that about assuming there was a long connection to it early the time when you started? on. HAYNES: It was exactly at that time. Yes, and the HAYNES: Yes, absolutely. Well, I was a fan first in resurged interest in Dylan was some kind of high school. This was the mid-late seventies in LA. symptom of something that was about to happen And you know, I loved the records that most people that I really didn’t even see coming. But I was just loved—Blonde on Blonde, and Bringing It All Back going to go to Portland, where my sister lived, to go Home, and Blood on the Tracks. And I remember, write the script to my last film, Far From Heaven, you know, the releases of… I think I remember and get away from the city and be somewhere Desire; that might have been the very first one that I pretty. Dylan was this obsession during every day. I was sort of present for; Definitely Street Legal and remember making these cassette tapes (probably definitely Slow Train Coming. And that was the first the last time that I made a series of cassette tapes) time I actually saw Dylan in concert, was that tour, for the drive across country. When I landed in kicking off his sort of gospel period. Portland, I started writing Far From Heaven by night… Bruce Greenwood, everybody. (Applause) And then I kind of stopped listening to Dylan for a while. I mean, I just listened to other kinds of music SCHWARTZ: [Characters] Mr. Jones and and got into different kinds of things in college and Commissioner Garrett: Bruce Greenwood. thereafter. Then I sort of found myself (as you kind of suggested or intimated) suddenly hungering for BRUCE GREENWOOD: As you were. SCHWARTZ: A surprise guest, but thank you for HAYNES: So we did that. We went to L.A. and we coming. (Laughter) You could ask all the questions met with Jesse, who’s this incredibly lovely guy and as Mr. Jones, if you want. seemed so well-adjusted talking about his dad. And I think it’s one thing about Dylan—whatever HAYNES: Exactly... or Pat Garrett, depending on his you say about his romantic record or marriage mood. history or whatever—you know, he’s been a really protective father. He’s really tried to keep those kids SCHWARTZ: Right. (Laughs) out of the glare of it all. HAYNES: But yes, it was in this period where I was Jeff Rosen was on the line in his office—Dylan’s going out there to basically do something else that long-time manager—on that meeting. I described the Dylan obsession kind of emerged, almost on the concept, and they were both interested in it. But the side, you know. Not—Unexpectedly. they said, “That means absolutely nothing, that we think so.” Jeff said, “Why don’t you write it down on SCHWARTZ: Now, you had made two films where a one sheet piece of paper?” Jeff told me all these you were dealing with the whole question of music things; to not say “Voice of a generation,” and not rights and real musicians—Karen Carpenter being say “Genius” and don’t say… I remember feeling the famous example, and then David Bowie and like they were just like, “Don’t… Oh, don’t do this… Velvet Goldmine—where you didn’t have the official and don’t do this… and don’t—” So I managed to rights. So here’s a case where you actually went to write something out, and sent it to Dylan with my— Dylan? I mean, what was sort of the process; you through Jeff—with some DVDs. came up with the idea, and then decided, “I’d better check with Mr. Dylan”? SCHWARTZ: You had—even before Superstar, you made a film, Assassins, based on or inspired by HAYNES: Yes. There was absolutely no way to even Arthur Rimbaud’s poetry. begin to conceive of doing this without the rights to the music. There was no way to do the film with HAYNES: Mm-hm. pseudo-Dylan songs, or fake Dylan songs. But because of exactly what you said, I had absolutely SCHWARTZ: So is it true that you pulled the Rimbaud no—no—valid reason to expect we would get card in writing to Dylan? them! I mean just nothing at all. And it was alright; I was in this weird sort of free play of loving that HAYNES: Pulled the Rimbaud card? music and getting so into it, and reading the biographies and immersing myself in [them]. SCHWARTZ: Well, you mentioned you used Rimbaud— I had this idea that I thought was really interesting. But I really had no expectations. I talked to Christine HAYNES: Oh, on the top of the thing. about it on the phone—Christine Vachon, my producer and friend—and she said, “Look, don’t SCHWARTZ: On this one page, this one page. write anything yet. You never know, you just have absolutely no idea. Why don’t we just take it a step HAYNES: Yeah. No, it started with the subtext “I is at a time?” And she brought up Jesse Dylan—who another,” [by] Arthur Rimbaud, and a quote from is Dylan’s oldest son and who is a filmmaker, Anthony Scaduto’s first biography [of Dylan]: “He director—and he lived in LA. She said, “Look, when challenged every step of the way by refusing we’re both in L.A., why don’t we try to meet up with identity,” or something about identity and the sort of Jesse Dylan and just see. We’ll just sort of suss it whirligig around that. out.” I had a feeling Jesse would like meeting Christine, indie producer, right? You know? Makes SCHWARTZ: So Dylan sort of accepted the idea that sense. there would be a film that was supposedly about him, but that would be in this free style, that was not SCHWARTZ: Oh, right; very good, very smart. a pure biopic. It fits, obviously, with what his (Laughs) music’s all about. TRANSCRIPT: A PINEWOOD DIALOGUE WITH TODD HAYNES AND BRUCE GREENWOOD PAGE 2 HAYNES: Clearly. Yes; exactly. I mean, it’s this that I really felt needed to be there—wasn’t going to innately and fundamentally open kind of approach come through on the page. to a traditional biography film. Clearly, because it described, you know, the Woody character as an SCHWARTZ: So could you talk about the casting eleven-year-old black kid who calls himself Woody process? Because of course, after the incredible Guthrie, described—But it actually said on the one success of Far From Heaven, lots of actors must description of Jude, the character Cate Blanchett have wanted, at that time, to work with you and would end up playing, that this would be portrayed wanted to be involved with this project. by a woman, and that his character would resemble the actual Dylan more than any other in the film. HAYNES: Yes, I guess that’s why. I don’t know; I was (Laughter) Which I had forgotten I’d even thought really thrilled. Because I did, I really went to who I about at that time that specifically. So he knew that thought were the very best possible people for there was going to be a sense of irreverence and each of these roles, and everybody wanted to take humor in the approach, you know? And I think a part in it, which was great.
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