FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT.

Matthew Januszek 0:04 So my son's gonna go, but he's got a question for you. So

Unknown Speaker 0:06 get going. Okay. He's

Unknown Speaker 0:18 ready.

Matthew Januszek 0:22 JOHN asked the question.

Unknown Speaker 0:24 So what's the best advice to give me when I'm in a teenage? teenager?

Chuck Liddell 0:30 teenager? Um Well, best advice? Believe in yourself. And, you know, do in school. Study, learn it's important.

Matthew Januszek 0:51 Such chart you've got a business degree then.

Chuck Liddell 0:53 Yeah, rather than the counting,

Matthew Januszek 0:55 counting See, says he's got business degree. Right? I didn't get a degree. It's pretty. You gotta you gotta use your brain and stuff. To take his advice.

Chuck Liddell 1:15 It doesn't have to just be school. Learn, yes. Or no. But most importantly, believe in yourself. I mean, I had nothing. I was raised by my grandpa ma'am. Like, you can do anything you want. If you want to work for go get it? But yeah, that's good. It's a everyone takes work. Nothing's easy. And we given all the gifts in the world if you don't work, someone's gonna, someone's gonna pass you up. Work. All right.

Matthew Januszek 1:49 There's your special. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:55 And I will speak to you after? Yeah.

Chuck Liddell 2:03 For the most part guy, people come back pretty easy. And I mean, it's a temporary thing getting knocked out.

Chuck Liddell 2:14 It's real. They go out. But I mean, for the most part, you come back pretty quick. Yeah. The guys that are laid out for a while. They can be some damaged, but most, for the most part, getting that they say now a lot of the CTE stuff from other damaged stuff is from repetitive stuff over short periods of time, more than it is getting knocked out one time. I got I think and I think I've always said that's what helped us a lot in Boston in MMA is the fact that Well, a couple of things. One, we have a commission you get knocked down to fight you get, I think you start with a 90 day suspension, they move it down. If you recover faster, they get, you get recovered. You get some for recovering. But the other thing is, there's so many different things you need to learn and train and do for our sport. As opposed to the difference between boxing or kickboxing and MMA is you have to wrestling these things that you can't do as much striking. You can't do and we and you have to when you're training Yep, training different you can't really train yet but a lot of boxes. A lot of hard sparring guys get after the gym, you know, they beat up those sparring partners, they beat up. A lot of guys come up through the ranks being a sparring partner and getting beat up. So I mean that's a lot of timeI just couldn't remind people and there's disagreement whether or not really ready when you do it for eight weeks or six weeks.

Matthew Januszek 10:30 Okay

Chuck Liddell 10:34 There's disagreements whether or not you know, it really helps my train. Thanks, guys. Thank you. I mean, it's obviously tougher when you get up there. Yeah. I mean, the new gesture, but then how long do you stay adjusted, your body's really good at adjusting back. Right? We get to when you're done. You know, we don't need it anymore. But your body's really good at adjusting back to being normal. Right? I mean, I think it's important if you're going to find it that level. Because it's tough to walk in there in the first you know, first day I first time I met some guys that were training for Big Bear. first couple of days up there. I was glad I was just a sparring partner something like I'm taking up taking around the half off. I'm doing two rounds off but yeah but when you come back down, but I don't know how much it really Oh, yeah, I think I mean, I think the guys that live up there live at that level, year round, or now I think they have I don't think it's just as fast right? Like, come back come down for a little bit. I think it helps. Yeah, they still have that it stays in that system for a long time. Yeah. I did mount climbing show in Peru trying to make it like oh, they're doing so good. And they got a 40 pound 50 pound packs on are walking up this three hour hike and shootout to 4500 feet elevation change and go for 14,000 516,000 feet and it'd be all really cool if the porters were running by with hundred pound packs and laughing us since the guys a little third right there they're moving the gear up from the camera guys right and all their camp there because they're the camera crew. Okay. Have a separate campaign is that these porters running up all this stuff on this camera people? Watch it. I'm like, Look, man. Next time we come by Can I can I get you tell me what size of shoes? I'm getting some shoes because I'm tired of you running by me. You know, loafers. I'm gonna do some hiking. So at least some nice shoes run up here is trail shoes. Something. Yeah. But they're getting paper, I guess a paper bag. I was okay.

Matthew Januszek 12:52 That's incredible. Yeah, I had some of those runners as well that sort of live up in altitude that you know, they're quite good marathon runners, aren't they?

Chuck Liddell 13:00 Yeah, that's cool

Matthew Januszek 13:07 Like, I've only I've not done it a lot, but a bit like sometimes I got to that there's the place up in San Francisco. I've been up there in the summer. Mark master offs got a place up there. What’s it called? m? What's up big ski resort called up in? snow near San Francisco. Just past San Francisco. Tahoe? Yeah, I've been up there a few times. And we've done like fitness camps and that Yeah, I feel first few days you can kind of feel it. And then you know, slowly get used to it. Yeah, good. Right. So we all good Kevin. Okay, so look, well, um, can you do like 30 and 45? For me? Yeah. So well, it's fairly conversational. That the audience is there in the fit pros, you know, in the fitness community, trainers, owners that that kind of audience so it will sort of cover a bit of the business side. And then obviously, as an athlete and a mindset. That's the general theme. If there's anything you don't want to talk about, we've added it or Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. If there's anything you don't want to talk about, if you want to stop it's not live so we can stop edit. Cut it out whenever you want.

Chuck Liddell 14:20 Moved by the drink. Crack for crack limited to 2.6 hundred milligrams of caffeine. Yeah, that's a good start.

Matthew Januszek 14:45 Yeah, I have one of those. Yeah, but I didn't have one before I had one the other day. No. Got me. Got me tingling a bit. Okay, so I just roll straight into it. Fantastic. Well, Chuck, thanks for making it down. Throughout offices appreciate your time. Chuck The Iceman, Liddell.

Where did Where did Iceman come from there?

Chuck Liddell 15:09 I'm really okay. It came by trainer, John Hackman me I think he nicknames people a lot of time too so it's easy to remember their name I knew my name but he was always making nicknames for people who liked it. So we had a nickname for me that you know, we do in my fourth fight kickboxing as a strong Ballroom in Bakersfield. And there's about 15 or 16 fights on the card. They want us all back there to be back there like 430 and the you know, the host I mean, so I was gonna fight till like 939 930 at night or whatever later fights so john says I'll come back and I'll take you around eight o'clock we're in the back row doing nothing and juncos back at it Hey starts looking around for me. I can't find me people it's happened before guys got gotta wait and God showed up to five sided wanna fight and laugh? Nobody who's like who's chuckling can't fight I only hit that Oh, he did that No way. If I say find finally find me I'm not my I'm found on type Adam the quarter sleeping. took a nap. So he's like, man, how do you sleep right now like it's like and he had I think they've done at like 200 amateur fights between boxing, boxing kickboxing, and 60 Pro Semi Pro 5 million boxing kickboxing and he said he got nervous. Every single one of them they all the way through already a rollercoaster emotional way through up into the fight nervous all day and night before and like how you sleep. So it's just so nice, man. It's dark on me.

Matthew Januszek 16:57 That must be like it must be quite unique to not get nervous isn't it? Do most people you know get that sort of pre fight nerves before they get on?

Chuck Liddell 17:06 Oh yeah, sure. Everyone handles it differently. Some people need you know some people fight different some people need to feel have that emotional like charge the fight some people need I think emotion clouds judgment. So I tried to relax and get caught. I tend to get caught when I fight. But yeah, it's wasn't for me. It's kind of like, I don't know I as i say i try to explain it to people. I was like test taking I should take tests are really good testing. I do really good on I over performance on test. I underperform what I know, like because I one of the things was like out study, study, study, cram, think, worry about it all the way up to the test. But as soon as I open and close the book and open the test, I'd relax. There's nothing else I could do to get better. I can't I can't prove more. So I just go out and I just because I just go through and do the best I could. Right. And that kind of that kind of allowed me to just spit it out right? And do well and I feel the same way about finding out like I got you got this whole training camp. You got to make sure you get all those things in my head I make sure I do this make sure I do that. I got all these different trainings and I got to make sure I'm in shape. But once we get the last training session the week before last points as in the week before the fight there's not much less to do you know there's and if I even if there was it's not going to help mourn about second out now. You shouldn't you know, you look back. No, I should have done this. I should have done that later. But this point you're done. So why not relax all worried about it's going to do is making worse? it's gonna it's gonna hurt you. We're gonna cause you know, we're worried about Sophia. It's all that stuff's gonna make you worse. So relax and have a good time. Yeah. And I people I was at all You can't say that. Like people will. Go Oh, man. Okay, yes, ma'am. I'll do my best. You can't say that. But yeah, I can that's all that's all I want for me. I want me I gotta do my best. Most of them. Yeah, you know, I can't there's never any guarantees, but hey, I know if I go out and do my best. I'm just gonna win and in the end as far as if I go out there and give it my all give my best and I lose. I'm still gonna be okay. I'm okay with that. I hate losing badly. I don't like losing. But it was would kill me if I lost because I quit. Mm hmm. You know, there's a lot of times people do something. You're only one knows. I mean, you're only when it really knows if you quit. For people for training, like whether it's practice or training, I always tell people, it's a metal is a metal thing. Like you can't quit training, you can't create wire, wire train because you'll do in the fight. Because when you get putting pressure under those heavy extreme circumstances you're going to do what your habits go back to what your habits are. Your habits are a matter that switch. So,

Matthew Januszek 20:29 I've heard you talk about tapping out in, you know, some of your previous competitors and, and the mindset about tapping out like for me, it's like if you're on and I've seen people tap out, but you when I heard on it you on a previous interview, you sort of said, Look, you know, if you can think about tapping out, you can think about getting out of the position.

Chuck Liddell 20:49 No, I got except for that because people Oh, man, you can tap taps, okay, yes. You're gonna put your blog or now your blog on. Or even like a neck crank, if it's a crank and it's your necks getting hurt, and you feel like okay, there's nothing you can do to guard your neck. Okay, stop because they know you're, you push your arm, it's gonna you're gonna be out for six months, and it might never be the same. You know? But like, just to choke. If I can leave anything to tap from a choke, I think to get out. I'll keep trying to get out until I go. But I just I just don't i don't think that's not something you tapped for. Yeah, but I got like I said that people sometimes say that they say oh, you can't ever tap into it. No, I I'm real I'm realistic. If you're gonna hurt your knee or hurt something really bad. It's okay. It's okay to tap might learn to fight again the other day? Yeah, the fight another day.

Matthew Januszek 21:50 How does that mentality apply to you in other things you do like business and outside of the ring? where it's like, Look, you know, I'm in effectively I'm not going to tap I'm gonna find a way out, you know, if you're in a difficult position in your business or, or whatever.

Chuck Liddell 22:05 I think I think it definitely translate somebody as I think it goes up, you know, if you're going to tap make sure there's no axe even once an arm or mark, I've tried just about if I'm, there's a lot of different ways to get out of it. And then I'm not just tapping right when you get it, you know, like, I'm making sure that I can't get out of it, that there's isn't some way to get around what I'm doing. And I think it's the same with business. It's just you got to look for creative ways to get through things. You know, a lot of times a lot of stuff I did. When I first started doing MMA I first started learning Jiu Jitsu. I was I was looking, I was really good everyone. I'm never surprised how great I was getting up on the bottom. But that's all that's what I worked on. And I was I was really creative I took I basically combined a buck I don't talk but he taught me how to come out one side to get a go for this armbar and sneak to go through an armbar or roll through to a knee bar. And I was using these things. Wait a minute, if I just put my leg on stand up right here now. My perfect. I can just do that. And I catch people so many times doing that, that move because they thought they knew what I was doing. They knew I was going for that anymore. So they were countering that. Also they pull my leg out, stand up and they go oops, like, Oh, you see eyes go Oh, man. I didn't know he's gonna do that. You know, but that's being creative and, and trying to make changes on the fly, but also looking for that other ways to get things done. You know, and I think that that translates into business for sure. Yeah. But I and that's kind of how I when I came into the sport, we kind of came in the beginning of the sport, right? Like anyway, am I MMA and everybody was coming in with you know it? Okay, you have wrestling basically was no takedowns. Good. It's called wrestling the takedowns part up now. Yeah, submissions. groundwork. You got striking, right? You have three basic elements. A lot of voices don't a lot of ways to skin a cat. But they got three different elements, right. And I was coming in with wrestling and striking. So how to learn jujitsu so I came up with the advantage because I had to have them do the elements pretty well and then I had to learn another one. What I did coming in as I came in, you know, I started How can I learn this fast the fastest way I can get this proficient enough to fight at top as a top level with all these people and what I kinda did my microwave, like you know what, I was gonna learn how to get off the bottom and then stay in good position when I'm on the ground. So I spent all my time working on those two things. Don't get submit now get submitted. countering submissions and staying in good position so they don't get me anywhere where I'm in danger. And again, And it was later, I had I learned about 20, 25% of JijJitsu really, really well. But I get with some guys black belts in jujitsu and, you know, I'm able to get up and get away from and not let them hurt me. We're good. Yeah. So now we're back to here now they got it now they're gonna fight me or I try to take me down which I'm pretty efficient both those things. So no, it made that adapting me might mean for the sport to that really made a difference?

Matthew Januszek 25:32 Do you think like, obviously in the UFC, you've got many different styles that you've got to learn. And I guess nowadays, probably the kids are coming up, and they're getting that, that sort of balance in terms of training, but I guess when you started, it wasn't quite as, as developed and you had to sort of go back and learn things. Do you think that you know, like, when you were doing that was where there are certain things that you thought like, if I focus, like you mentioned, I get these few things, right? I can't learn everything. But if I kind of get these few things, right, then that's gonna, you know, be what I need to become good around, or did you just have to kind of go through and learn everything?

Chuck Liddell 26:06 Oh, that's exactly what I was trying to do. I was trying to take the shortcut for me, it was like, what were the basics I need here, right? To get me get me by and then I'd add to those, right, you know, it's kind of like, it's like learning a series of something like, I basically did a couple basic moves to get off the bottom and stay solid and do things and then add it from there. And the one thing I never stopped learning, I kept getting better kept, kept getting better. And I learned when I had some time, and obviously I do training, you know, I do training and I've learned and submissions and learn, learn. So those are the main things that concentrate on the skin and back positions, getting out of bad positions will get back to my feet getting away. always stayed with my core basics. always worked on my core basics. And then you add things as you go. But, you know, I think that's what a lot of things you get, get figure out what you need to know, to get by, and then what you need and keep adding to it as you go. And you know, as you as you go, as you go people other people are gonna be getting better. And even if you're the best at what you're doing right now and are smarter if you're if you're not learning if you're not learning if you weren't evolving back then you're dying and those guys that were really good and then maybe they came from that my style is the best. And then they never learned. Right. And they've been in MMA for quite a while now those guys before me and we were in the night before fight that's why we're in the in the workout rooms warming up and they were Scott Adams. My dream partner and whenever I gave it the first time they didn't have a fight. Yeah. I know what how do you think I fight this guy? Um, okay. Well here, okay. Oh, for random and I was kind of going I was going to actually want to knock it out. Medical code. I have no notes on that. But I wasn't looking at all the way in or all the way up the kicker you stand on kicking judging distance, you're gonna get it's gonna eat you alive. So are we in our we want to knock him out but the thing that Coleman says, so I can show me how to defend leg loss because I you know, Scott, this guy was my partner was really good. Like, the good guy, especially at the time. And he I know Okay, okay, we I'll show you this. I don't know if I guess the guy has good leg locks you find them really good. It's really gonna help talk to you right now but okay. And I go Okay, put me any help. I need he looked at me like I just asked him to do some quantum physics. Like it's like, oh, wow. Like how you been in the sport this long? And you don't know how to bait do a basic he'll, like have you don't have to show like it's like, How am I supposed to show if you don't know how I'm doing what I'm trying to do I supposed to how am I supposed to show you how to defend it? So you know those guys get stuck in that mindset. And so I just got to do my way I'm learning my way. Right. It's the only way to do it now. I think that goes on is when you do something when you're really good at it eventually. You know people are going to figure it out and you got to keep evolving. Yeah, you got to keep moving

Matthew Januszek 29:58 Did you feel that you evolve through, I guess, adversity as well. I'm not a martial artists guy. One time i read about being, I think it was, being choked out or something and it was one of the skills that you hadn't developed and then after that you went on to kind of really master some of those chokes off.

Chuck Liddell 30:21 Yeah, it was, it was early in my career and I just didn't even know I had been I didn't really have anything. 10 seconds last and I was sitting there. Get on, like, Oh, it's not hard to get out. But you know what? I'll just sit here cuz it's only 10 seconds. And then I still I still this day go. No. Hey, how can we send that one out before the bell? When? If for Well, before, I shouldn't have stopped it before the bell? They stopped after that. All right. So I went out before the bell. Okay. I heard you still argue that but it's right. sided skin. But I Yeah, I know. I just I I hadn't learned that yet. And I hadn't gotten it. I don't know. I mean, I hadn't done a lot of switches in the guy. Gemma was great. smishing. Guy. And yeah, I just, but it's, I was in the process of learning. Yeah, there's always he got to go faster. Well, there's only so much it takes time.

Matthew Januszek 31:20 Did that did that sort of change you and you suddenly thought, Okay, I'm gonna have to, you know, it's just something I've got to master and get better at.

Chuck Liddell 31:28 You know, that was that was one of the things that cemented for me that I need, I need to learn. But like, as before, I just want to stand up, don't worry about learning the submissions. I need to, I need to learn the submission. So I know what they're trying to get me to do. Right? I know when they have something and when they don't, or when they are. And really, it's kind of like knowing what I need to know what you want to know what you're trying to set up. If you get a few real slick guy, and you're really good at setting something up. If I if I were Okay, why is he going there? Does his woman go there? What if I go there? What's that? What's gonna happen? Actually, we're always gonna go for that. Okay, that final know what you're trying to get? It's kind of it's really easy to trick me to do what swag? If I know what you want, it makes a lot more. Right. Yeah.

Matthew Januszek 32:18 So I'm with you striking you're obviously known for your striking and the power of your punches. With again, with martial arts being very sort of, you know, having very different skills, how much did you did you continue to work on your strengths to make them sort of even better, or, you know, did the work on some of your sort of your weaknesses and to try and bring those up to the same level of as you use your strengths?

Chuck Liddell 32:45 Well, it's combination. I mean, I think you always have to stay sharp and say, for me, I had to stay sharp. Start with my striking start with my stuff. But I got to the point of kind of when felt like, okay, you know, I get to the point where mathematics I got when I felt my time was on his desire when I want to hit him. On my head, if I catch up with him, it's gonna knock him out. I have the power. I know it's there. Once you have that confidence, and you're you are. But we always worked on different techniques, different ways to do things. And we added things here and there. And it's up but and we always I was always trying to improve other game to get around. But yeah, it's just, I think the majority of it is just, you know, what, what you got their power of seven is just icing, they have my timing, on make sure my timing was on. And it was, I didn't have to work as much on I was spent, I spent a lot of time working jujitsu and working on stuff that I was trying to be, do something I didn't do well, or things I do are adding things that, you know, even my strike striking, adding different strikes, having different punches are different. There's a lot of different punches from different angles, but I worked on them. And I tried to learn different ways to get around things.

Matthew Januszek 34:11 Yeah, that was watching last night, your Tito fight. And like the punches, like, wait, they came from so many different angles, and they all seem to land it was like, gee, I just couldn't imagine being on the on the side of that is terrifying, really. And so when you go into a fight, I guess you mentioned the guys that, you know, when, you know, when you was working with him in your early days, you know how much of it now is his strategy? Because it sounds like you know, some of the people you're coaching before it was like, you know, they're just great fighters and they go in there and now, I sort of deal with it almost like on the day but you know, now is the strategy important. And did you know would you say you're a strategic fighter or just very skillful,

Chuck Liddell 34:53 I think strategies, always important. I mean, you go out there and I mean, you look at film, which I think got, like, I'm good at picking up tendencies on people even like, when I spar with somebody, or right or the first time would find if I've never seen the film. I try, I'm trying to, I've done the first round trying to figure out what kind of tendencies he has. If I do this one, it'll do okay if I do this, because I want to be able to fake that and do something else. So I'm trying to land that big punch and a big kick. And if I can make I do, I do a really good job of setting things up. And I'm always thinking, What am I that's all I'm, I'm not an emotional fighter. I'm always out there. I'm always trying to figure out what, how, how can I get you to react to this. Now, it's interesting is when you're finding like I really Assad a lot when I was doing Ultimate Fighter, coaching, because those guys are really good, but they're not quite that level yet, and I'm sparring with going and in some of the guys some guys are like some guys are really, really cerebral fighter don't think and do and they're easy, actually easier for me to set up. Because they see what I'm doing and they're ready, you know, but I can't hit twice with the same combination. But I can set them up for a while. Then you get the guys that are really good athletes, but haven't really gotten into I don't really know, they're more like being good athletes out there fighting and how to really have really got that mental side of it yet and go out there and it's hard to set them up yet with the same combination four times in a row. Right? It's really hard to set them up because they're not falling for the they don't want the face because everyone know you're faking. It's like It's like what Okay, can you stop I'm out here sometimes I I'd say that three times in a row. You can't let me do the same combination three times around when it's like please pay attention pay attention to what's going on this isn't just a we're spying This is training Yeah, nothing else work on it thinking right now.

Matthew Januszek 36:58 Do you think some of that comes down to your nickname The Iceman but do you think that comes down to just whilst you're in there you've obviously got all the skills and the athleticism but being able to sort of be in there and be calm and just watching what's going on do you think that's it? That's a big advantage is a I think a big advantage

Chuck Liddell 37:18 To that Yeah. And you know I think it's you know being able to read fighters being able to read like I was telling you I get I can tell when area gets a little quiet almost like a little gloss over your eyes. Okay, I see it a little foggy right now here we go. And I know that killer instinct that because they see a lot everybody has but I go after you like except like I hurt you. I know you're hurt. It's not good. If you get a little rotten are there guys with the difference for those other people that don't know like for when you're hurt for a little bit? There's a time in there well I just have to tap in if I catch you with a 50% punch and that and that state it'll finish it you know but that was that's why guys don't start trying to move where they go and they survive they come back and now it's not now I really got knocked out again like it was a knockout punch again right not just a little one. Yeah.

Matthew Januszek 38:20 So you just like to spend a bit of time on your trainer like that you met sort of fairly early in your career is correct john and so tell me the story about kind of how you guys got involved and you know why you know why he was such a sort of I guess an important person in your career. Okay, well

Chuck Liddell 38:42 I think it's a long story but we'll go with it let's go so anyway. I would go training to a local gym and when I first went to college. And so they called me up one day, Hey, hey, this guy's black belts coming in to spar with a lot of guys. So you want to come in and represent us kind of thing, you know? Sure. Wow. Okay. So I came in and john doe's guy, John Hackleman and I come in and we're doing spa like wall training and no head contacts. we're just doing like my contact, sport karate kind of stuff. But there was some wrestling and stuff. You know, and I took about a couple of times wrestling but other than that, you know, other than Yeah, I mean, he was kicking my butt. I knew who I was. I mean, I had that anybody do that to me? And here's and I'm like, Damn, this guy's good. And it's funny because afterwards you know we were in office all manager

Unknown Speaker 40:17 fight where he was,

Chuck Liddell 40:19 like, away but I was in the back, I would talk to him in the back and he gave me his card. If you don't want to train No, come on up the house. So I put his card my pocket. And that that same week, I added I added my wallet and I wanted it that week I went to Vegas to watch my friend Alfonso Alvarez kickbox. I got him in when there's a wrestling account ball and I got him into listen Christ after they wind up going home to Vegas where I live and becoming a kickboxer. So I was going out to watch a fight. And Nick Wagner is this trainer and he's the promoter. So he comes over to me at the way as it goes, Hey, Chuck Alfonso says a pretty tough one fight tomorrow. Sure, I'm fine. So I go when I'm away, and that question guys go up. So how many fights you have? I've never fought for that is gonna happen. Now let me fight the guy 15 or 15 one guy was gonna be fine. I was gonna step in for the main event. What's wrong with you? Anyway, my friends. But so he's Oh, you know what? I thought I was disappointed actually, that I didn't get a fight. He goes, why don't you go home train and I'll put you up another card another couple months and I'll put you on it. Okay, cool. And so, I driving home from Vegas. I remember I have this car in my pocket that has said kickboxer world Champion kickboxer on the card. Man. This guy I called up so we go to his house and train so the first time I got to train and ride my motorcycle beat up motorcycle. But their house is about 20 minutes from where I live. And it's up in the hills and Ronnie go up the hill walk up the stairs and he had a buddy with him. Get there? This like 800 square foot like room and he's got Oh yeah, well this let's just box now I've not I've never just boxed in my life. Boys a karate kid and also the fighting street fight and all sorts of I've never done justice. But okay. Why not? I believe but so we put boxing love. It started sparring. He beat me for about nine unofficially 19 straight minutes. No break.Let's Let's go. He's the one that told me that 90 minutes is enough. We just train I think he just stopped didn't want to see me get hit him. But so we trained and I and then afterwards. You know, it started raining. And I was getting on a motorcycle. And Hey, you come back tomorrow. Sure. Yeah. So I push a bike in the in the garage and take my truck like, Huh? Oh, no, no, it's okay. Like, that's okay. I can No, no, come back tomorrow, right? Yeah. They're taking Mickey's brand new truck, they go and then train to train this house prime for next six, seven years to heal. But we both at gyms and after that we build that gym to that point. Right. So we had other places to train. We're still trying to house but not every day. I was up at the house every day for the next six, seven years. Wow. Our training shows and we start fighting the good times.

Matthew Januszek 44:05 What was what was what do you think was sort of special about that relationship that you had? Because it sounds like you know, he was with him for pretty much most of you your career. You know what do you think he was able to sort of bring out a view that made it work.

Chuck Liddell 44:18 Um, you know, a lot of that he came in when I first started I wasn't trying to change anything. I'm just trying to add things like and I was like that as soon I adopted it, or I kind of had it anyway, but I was because I was kind of felt that about some ice is gonna come from school. When I was in high school, and we were exposed on Fridays. It was it was a casa de that our school, a gym. So I go ahead and do kata for about an hour and a half because then I leave and go to sparring, open sparring, kung fu class, because I wanted to learn other people's stuff and so I felt like he's trying to learn everything and use what works right or works for you because not everything works the same for everybody or something that might not work for you. But might as well try it right so john was his voice he tried doing it this way. He was always adding things and when I tried to change lanes fan fighting and John's a great coach and a good guy like we was designed like a family up there right? We come up we come up to go hang out half the time. We hang out for an hour and a half before we work outside to be safe for we get up at four and we will work out till like 530 but do you have you know anyone beans arises on the stove in our yard? Cool. All right, we're gonna try now. Let's go. So, like it was like a family affair. We're all you know, and we it was the hardest thing when I opened a school. I was right. You know, all over the place when I first opened my school. In San Luis Obispo It was really tough because john in charge people come to his house and train. But it was kind of like he kind of earned your land like mean unless you get you that as you came in but by special catches on if you want to come up there and train you got a beating for X amount of months before then I mean, why no one I think he's got a big mouth in his hand. Look over that hill to see him. barking. Oh, hey, Mike. Sarah. I wanna get your gear on. We gear back up a smart game. He actually fought for us. He became topless. At 1.2 meters. It gets pretty tough. Maybe we should try and Yeah, probably. Nice game. But I was going to have to fight him for us and done pretty well. Yeah. But, so john has people you have that reputation? Yeah. For like the first like a year of me opened my gym. I think it was 85% women. Because guys did not want to come in. without really come in and get beat up when I get mad. I'm like, you know, you know, I was one that went that way. You can spar whoop. . I don't allow you to beat up to you guys want to meet as you want to beat each other up? Fine. It's mutual, but I didn't like people picking on people to learn anything from that. Yeah.

Matthew Januszek 47:52 So with the mic, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that John wasn't part of your final fight? You know, what, why did that not happen?

Chuck Liddell 48:06 You know, and what it wasn't? was nothing personal. It's nothing in between. He just I know. I knew John did not want me to fight anymore. Right. And he was against me fighting again. He was I mean, probably right. But you know, he's totally against the fight again. And, and it would have been more make him. I mean, I knew he would coach me fast. Yeah. But I didn't want to put him in that position. I mean, it really, that was really it. I just didn't want him to have to have to do that. So no, it is it is what it is. And I did what had nothing, nothing personal. I would love to have I would love to have him as my coach again. could ask for a better coach. But it's one of the things I just, you know, no. You know, I just didn't want to put him in the position after fight. After knowing where he stood 100% on issue. Yeah.

Matthew Januszek 49:11 Was that tough on your site? Because I guess having someone like that, that you'd sort of grown up with, you know, being in your, you know, on your corner, you know, not to be there was that was that sort of difficult at the time?

Chuck Liddell 49:24 I don't know. I mean, it is what it is. Yeah, it wasn't that. I was finding the way I like to look at it. But I want him to do what he felt comfortable doing. I didn't really want to push him to do anything. Yeah. It just didn't. Yeah, we had a great run together a great, great career. We're friends. Just I'll always be family you know, so it's a swag things I didn't want to put I was decision I was making.

Matthew Januszek 50:04 Did you speak to him afterwards about it?

Chuck Liddell 50:07 We've talked a little bit about it. I mean, he's not gonna, you know, he's not one of those. I told you so guys this appointment, you know, but, yes, so good.

Matthew Januszek 50:21 Yeah. So when looking back on your UFC career, you know, it was a hell of a career really and, you know, obviously sort of being able to sort of look back on and describe it, you know, how would you sort of describe it to yourself, you know, in terms of the sort of highs and the lows and the bits that you were proud of? And the I guess the challenges because really, you know, you you're one of the sort of key people that actually took UFC to the masses, you know, when you started, it was nothing, you know, it was it was an underground sport, pretty much and, you know, it wasn't taken seriously. So, you know, how would you look back on it? Both, I suppose, from your own perspective, and also, you know, from the UFC perspective,

Chuck Liddell 51:04 I look back on it. You know, I really enjoyed the ride, you know, it was very, it was very cool to be able to be at the beginning. You know, it'd be a look back, when I finally took time to look back and look back and everything, you know, we've done and all that. And the times and I know, but I don't know.

Not sure. I mean, I'm not sure what, what I would say. I mean, I don't think ups and downs another thing, anything, there's just, you know, tie ups and downs, you know, losing the Randy the first time, you know, I got it. To me, that was, you know, it wasn't even that I lost Randy, Randy is a great fighter. I respect for him, I thought he was gonna he's gonna be a tough fight. I thought I hadn't handled neurosurgery but made some mistakes, train, I think. But anyway, I corrected and we'll fix that later. But the hardest part for that, for me was letting Tito off what I felt like I like to also bring out he was supposed to fight me, and we're fighting him to randomly find for an interim title. He refused to fight me. And the thing is, to knew I was gonna beat him. You know, he knew, because we trained together, I used to be a mop and everything. I'll beat him in a wrestling match. Well, back in our prime, my prime when he was in his prime, I'll be doing a wrestling match. And that's what he's good at. Jiu Jitsu match couldn't be me. I mean, I think he could be he can submit other people better than I could. But he still wouldn't be mismatch, I now control and he wouldn't take me down, I take him down a score, and I cannot control the opposition, just so you had striking that it's a done deal, because he's afraid to get hit. So that's anybody that's afraid to get hit. This kind of like flinching afraid to get hit. I would say, Oh, he doesn't like to get it. Well, no one likes to get it. But what I mean is, you just like it enough, it causes a problem. Right? If you're that worried about getting it, then it causes a problem. You know, we're flinching. It's really hard to find a stand up guy. That's got a good answer. But yeah, that he didn't he never, he just didn't want to fight me. But I let him off the hook. Because you know what, we'll find me, Randy, than it would have been. I had the interim title. He has a title. Look, I've been forced either, you know, put up or shut up. Yeah. And by Louisville and Nashville. let you know that Randy went in and beat him and run from there.

Matthew Januszek 54:01 Yeah. But you must I guess that sort of rivalry and that excitement, you know, that must have also been part of kind of growing interest in

Chuck Liddell 54:10 UFC as well. Oh, yeah. That as long as you're looking back and say it was all that all really helpful. No at all. If you look, now looking back at the ups and downs of it, you'll have made it interesting. Yeah, that made you know, made everything more exciting. So it all worked out. Yeah. Sometimes things happen for a reason. Right?

Matthew Januszek 54:34 And that rivalry like I know, you know, you see some sports and that like if you look at Connor, you know he's a I guess he's great at creating that whole sort of, you know, what you call it like so theatre around the show and that you know, that kind of draws people Yeah,

Chuck Liddell 54:48 What I like to say for that like these guys like the what makes them different. For the sport, is he brings in a guy like him. He brings in the casual fan, they're worth more right to a company worth more to the show get more people to watch because he got naked casual fans watching. I mean, hardcore fans are gonna watch if you got good fighters fight, they're gonna watch their fans, whether they like it or not, they're gonna watch it because if it's good fight or flight, they're gonna watch fights. That's what we do. Right? That's why we watch fights. I like why is the guy two guys fighting now watch it. But what those guys these guys do sometimes as soon as they get that casual fan and go now and what cars may want to do, and which is makes an amazing he makes he's able to get that to that next level where people that don't usually watch fights or watch. Yeah, they were words, it becomes a makes it like, you know something? Yeah, you have to see or an event at night where, you know, like, Mayweather was going to do that. And then he got, you know, maybe one of the pockets, you got to go in a fight party. And there's people that I don't know, if they've ever watched a fight in their life there, you know, but it's the best thing to do is go by that read that fight and watch it. Right. Either watch it. You know, and the guys get to do that, or the guys that are worth the most.

Matthew Januszek 56:15 Um, yeah, I've heard you talk about that before. And I don't I don't know whether you know how it plays into your fighting. But you've you know, you've said that, you know, you can either do probably what's right to win the fight, or you can do what's right for the fans to make it an interesting fight.

Chuck Liddell 56:33 I've never to me if you're like me, if you're trying to win a fight by winning the fight. Like you're not just trying to squeak by. And I really I don't like and I look as a coach and a manager, I get it. Right. Like, and I and I know I've sent it to a guy before I remember one of my I remember one of my jujitsu guys who's go mess. He takes he was hurt his fight. And he was Arizona, somewhat small fight. But he went a shot in, took the guy down. What's wrong with it was on the bottom. I did a couple Robo ball. And then he got away. And then he got back up, he shot it again. took him down was one for a triangle, right after another. And then guy got on top. So no, for front ends, I might look. Next, can you take them down, hit them a few times before you go first, get some points for you last round, these guys that don't know what's going on. They think he took you down and he be like he didn't do anything. But if you're not going to get the submission, you need to at least get your score some points for it. So I get my idea of as a coach wanting you just go out there and score enough points to win around and win the fight. As a fan, I want you to go out and finish fine. Now I'm the type of guy I don't care what you do. I don't give grounded pounds. I'll give you submitted guys. I give a knock them out. As long as you're trying to do one of those three things. I'm happy. And I know the difference between stalling and scoring points and trying to finish right. And so my thing is, I think if it's up to you like, there's different ways you can be a guy look at Mayweather. Not to not to be one was born fighters. I mean, arguably one of the best defensive boxers of all time. But what the most boring fighters in the world, but who who's had more papers? Yeah. Right. So that's one way to do it. You don't know you when he was 15 Oh, right. That's where he's at. Right?

But anyway, he's, you know, yeah, you don't hear if you know, media, people will watch. Yeah, even if you're boring. People still watching I and I really liked the fact that like, that's one of the things with Yossi I really like is, no matter how boring or if you're the best you will get he will get your shot. Yeah. You know, you're like, I mean, you might maybe some thoughts on these guys loud mouse jump, jump, jump, get a few, jump a few low, get some early shots and jump a few people. But, you know, hey, when you may if they're selling tickets, and you're and you're getting paid reason to pay for you. That's why Yeah, is what it is.

Matthew Januszek 59:29 So what's your thoughts on winning? And when do you think you kind of had that attitude? Because I've heard on previous interviews that you'll you know, you'll do anything to win regardless of sort of wherever it is. You're just you've just got that sort of competitive mindset. Was that something that was just natural to you or something that you know, your grandfather, anyone sort of trained into you when you were younger?

Chuck Liddell 59:50 No, I've always tried to figure I try to think and that was but I've always been that like, my mom was a joke. She's like, you're the guy that would Trip your trip your girlfriend, they beat her up the stairs. You know, like you're Like what? Like I was, I like to lose it. I don't want to lose it. You know checkers I want I mean, I wonder I want to win it everything and but it was, I mean, I don't think it I don't know what it what it came from exactly or how it got that way. But I was I was I was wanting to when I was wanting to, but I was wanting to compete. So it's like if there wasn't like luck games that are just playing and playing luck. I would never like five minutes again, I'm like, Okay, let's play. There's no strategy to it, no thinking there's no way to win the way to improve your chances of winning by working somebody out doing something, you know, just was interesting to me right now, and I always talk to people about that. That's one of the things that that this fits in here kind of fear you'll get around. But anyway, like so grotty, was one of the things that I begged my mom to finally get started doing when I was 12. And I was well I got it from watching kung fu theatre and see that there was tractions in between thing they had seen that on TV. And I thought that was the coolest things. Crazy demonstration stuff these guys do. The Magician on breaking boards and raw noise crazy thing, right? And that's, that's what I thought was cool. So I went, I went in and started taking karate, and got lucky we ran into this gym, that's real traditional style like old school like, okay, they show you a technique and have you go to 500 could do 500 on the right side 500 on the left side, then we'll check it and see what see if you need it. As an add kid, I'm a brat. We can't sit still you want to stand there. But I want it I want to learn. So I want a new technique I was I want to learn something new. So I want to get this down. So I turn to 500 each time they come on and really kind of help me with my being able to focus doing other things too, because I'll be focusing schools actually my out. But anyway, so I'm learning this. And in our gym. typical person they handle year membership, you had to buy a start, right. And most people are done about three to six months. Because at about three to six months they figured out there's no magic to it. It's just hard work. But for me, I figured out that the harder I wait the harder I work at this I can pass that guy. I can get better than him. If I keep working on I cannot get better than him. I the harder I work, the more people I can get better than Oh, that's how it works. Perfect. I love this. And I started doing it all the time. And I used to do I seek Ronnie all the time like I would I do a wrestling practice. And I've read some wrestling factory's done I go home calm real quick. I go to karate. I go to you know i do football. I mean I'd stayed at lunch and during lunch I sit in the library do my homework trying to get over sometime. So after football I go straight to karate. You know I just did it all the time. You know I just I love that anywhere I could squeeze it in I didn't cry. I was always training and it was funny because I've seen a lot of stuff on people that have gotten really good at what they do. And one of the common things is it wasn't working right like that I was one that is I don't remember the kid with a good I can't be on fire like eight year old in the military like so how many hours a day do you practice and look how I how I just play that was it. I mean he just played for hours on end but he didn't have some I gonna do what two hours a day to get design I want to do this and so you always hear people say no, I just did it. I love doing it. I did it.

Matthew Januszek 1:04:25 So there was a connection you understood the connection between putting in the hours and results and there was no shortcuts but also you enjoyed putting in the hours at the same time

Chuck Liddell 1:04:34 Yeah, but you didn't have to tell me to know that asked me No don't tell me there's so much that's all this I mean obviously I have people going oh yeah I need to do that and usually that but I was there to find out what I wanted to do more so

Matthew Januszek 1:04:49 And is that works Are you done? Public Speaking you're done acting you got businesses does those same principles, you know the work ethic and putting in the time did you find those Got you through in other areas outside of your sport?

Chuck Liddell 1:05:03 Definitely, definitely. But like work, but it's more, it's a little more work. Right? You know, it's not like a thing, certainly guy in public speaking for me, like, it's never been easy, right? Like, it's not something I enjoy. Like I'm not, I don't like I got I like to tell the story. So you get up and we get up there like I can do, I can stand up and talk as long as you want if I got someone watering, so wants to keep me really man. So that knows me enough to know, okay, these people don't know, they don't know, the background, you got to give him some background to that story that was in the middle of that and they're going where are we? They're not swimming. There's nothing on there. But, um, you know, but it's something that, you know, I work at I but I know if I work at it, I get I have to do it. And I get it sat and I work on it. I know how to get there.

Matthew Januszek 1:05:57 Yeah. What's your thoughts on failure? And the reason that this this question is really relevant to a lot of people at the moment, you know, that with what's going on in the world today, there's people that are out of jobs, or they've you know, they've climbed the ladder and their businesses have gone down? And I guess, you know, there's probably a lot of examples of people where they feel as though they've just, you know, failed. And, and that's it, you know, where do they go? You've obviously, you know, you've had a good long career, and you've had a huge amount of successes, and you've had a few losses and what you could call failure, how, you know, what does failure mean to you in terms of losing? What you're wanting to go out and achieve? And how, how do you rebound over that loss?

Chuck Liddell 1:06:37 Or, for me, really, failure never happens until you quit. You give up, you're done. Throwing the towel. That can be failure. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are there's times when certain businesses or certain things, it's time to throw in the towel, there's got people, a menu, done your best serve relationships, do your best. So as it happens, you know, everybody there, you can't control everything. But it's really when, when you give up, like and to me given up doesn't mean quitting doesn't mean or doesn't mean just Okay, I got that my business go or move on, as long as I allow my business to go where you go. Okay, you've made a decision not to do the business. Now what

That is, right. You have some free time. Let's go. Now it's a, it's one of the thing that if you win.

I mean, it's always there's always somewhere to go, there's always some way to go. Yeah, in his view, if you're, if you want to think like a winner, you want to be a winner. Keep moving from one foot in front of the other figure out, you know, take some time, figure out a direction and just start putting one foot in front of the other. I mean, as long as you continue to do that you're not a failure. You failed on we all have failure, that there's a difference.

Matthew Januszek 1:08:12 How long does it take you to like, wait, if you've had what you would class as a personal loss against your goals, how long does it take you, you know, when you sort of flights ended and you get home? How long is it before you're in the sort of, you know, positive Chuck mode and I'm going to go out again.

Chuck Liddell 1:08:33 you know, the funny thing is, when I'm done, I think one of the things I've always had is and I mean a shout out that I can do it. I can get it done. I can figure it out and feeling okay. And it's more of an Okay, what do I let what did I do wrong? What can I do better? How do I get this done? And if I don't know how to if maybe I need to go maybe I need to find a different coach for this. Maybe I need help on this. Maybe I need help on that. They need work my wrestling or maybe just whatever it is. I go out and start fine. Because I go out as soon as I will start working for it. I mean, if you sit around moping designed to meet again, I guess like anything else, a lot of stuff. sit around complaining about it. Like, you know, I totally ran into it wrong. Like I've got my downs or I take a I take a little time. But I mean a day, too. I was more than eat. Like I mean, you can't take yourself for too long, made some mistakes made some. You know, he made a mistake. You know, did you intentionally screwed up? No. And if you did have some other problems, but I mean, for me, it's just it's just it's time to get back to work with the timer. You Take a little more time off is when I when I'm one on one. When I'm on top of one, okay, maybe we take weeks off to have some fun. No. No, I mean, yeah, I mean, and it's time to get back to work. I mean it. You know, I don't, I don't see any reason and taking any, any extra time any. You know, you're gonna feel better when you're working. I tell people Hey, man, when you figure out, you know, sometimes you have to figure out what's out there for you. I try not to get too you say something, people might want to apply it to everything. Like, no, ask me like I can, I'll be trying to apply different things. It's different. There's, there's nuances to everything. But for the most part, you need to look at what's out there and look what's available and start working.

Matthew Januszek 1:10:57 You know, start working for I've had you after fights, you know, when you've been interviewed when? Yeah, after a loss. And it's interesting, because listening to the way you talk you it's, you're almost kind of like, you're not admitting that you've done anything wrong. It's that mindset of Well, yeah, you know, I just, I didn't do this, I could have done that. Or it's very much a sort of, you know, in your mind, you're not lost, you're just kind of you know, you didn't do a few things when you should you should have done is that something that you have to train at? Because I know you know, when I'm running a business you know, there's there are times where you can kind of let things come into your head and you can then start questioning yourself and, and doubting yourself. You obviously don't have what doesn't seem as though you've got that self doubt. Is that something you just gifted with? Or do you have

Chuck Liddell 1:11:44 Okay, I think it's I don't know if I was gifted with it, or I got it got there and then I just it just never left, right and I never let it go. But that's that's by it's confidence. You know, it's that I can fix this. I can do this. If I work hard if I have that belief in myself I work hard enough I enjoy it I'm was raised that way am I my grandpa? My girl? My mom my emeralds Amy community what kind of work for jobs or do a project get after? No one knows your energy and only gives you know, so? I just I think it's well as it's a constant thing. It's something that you got to get. It is something you have to continue to do like you have to continue to support I don't think about I talked about, I'm talking about mental toughness, right? And mental toughness for me. Like it's something that I've done a lot of research on now. But it's an everyday thing. You know, it's something that you have to be mindful of every day, right? You can't, you can't turn off and turn off turn on and turn off when you want. It's not like one of those things where I want it now I need my mental toughness.

And you know, I tell us I actually told a story the other day about it. We're, after I retired a couple years after I retired, I was in Hawaii Run, run a hill with a Prowler running, which was a walk on zone. One of my friends started running up the hill, and I started running run after him. Okay, we're so now we're racing off of this big business big statuses long. It's a long way to go Oregon. And I was in horrible shape. But I wasn't in great shape here. But I you know, I've been retired a couple years and kind of let that, you know, let things go. And that really happened that day thing. And for the first time that I can remember my life. I thought about I would cross my mind so that I'm ready. I went, Wow. Oh, no, I should let him when I ran past me. He started dying. And then I'm halfway up. They'll go ahead of him. And I'm like, No, I got it. Now you got to finish those things. for that. Yeah, that remark to myself. So I ran all at the top. But anyway, so I made the right decision. But the first time I remember ever having to make that decision, you know, like ever, ever having that actually crossed my mind. Yeah. And that reminded that made me think about when I was in it. So I was getting used to me the habit of not, I was allowing myself I don't have to go work out now. I'm done. I'm overtired, I'm good and relax. And you do that enough. You get enough time and everything's and it's easier. It starts becoming at that window of comm is easier and easier. That's a slippery slope. So for me it's well as and then I started doing some longest I started doing some research on that firm to help a friend out. And about because I was just to tell, that's one of the things I went by, I guess I can teach you Chen, I'm not willing to teach you mental toughness. But if you're gonna come to me as a fighter, and you want me to help you, those two things, one, I can't do anything about the other one. I'm not willing to do it. Sorry. But like, my buddy asked me for help. And I was like, Okay, I started doing research on it. And it was pretty consistent with it. Yeah, that's one of the things like it's, it's every it's little things. It's everything. When you start training someone teaching someone, just small things. Yeah. You know, teach, brushing your teeth and doing hidden routines, getting something to do, you know, just little things will start helping you with it. being mentally tough. And that's part of the confidence thing. And once you start doubting yourself about so many things, it's, it's down. Gross. It's like exponential getting bigger and bigger and bigger is our work. You know, you got to believe in yourself. How are you? You know, I was, I just kind of always felt like, no matter what, I think it's how you relax about this, like, well, this is going on, we're gonna do this. It's got I'll figure it out. I'm gonna make I'll make it work one way or another. This is gonna be okay. And I so far, I'm so good. I'm 50 years old. So it's worked out for me. So far, so good. It's worked out.

Matthew Januszek 1:16:24 Where has that when is when you've retired? Has that sort of mindset been more difficult to keep with because I guess when you when you're training and you've got to fight you're you've always got to stay on and, you know, you're always got to reasonably stay in shape. And you've got a lot to think about, but when that's no longer there was that difficult to sort of get that reason to sort of, you know, keep that means

Chuck Liddell 1:16:46 right now? No, that's and that's, that's the thing to like, it's, it's, it's all of a sudden, like, for me, it was a really weird time. Like I didn't know it even really, there was a weird time where time for me got I'm used to having this this thing up here to control everything. This like, I want to invest. And that drove me like that was keep me and reason not a reason to do all these things is I ruined the train we're not to go do this or reason to go do that. I'm reasonable be you know, in the gym, whenever you have an awesome reason to not go out drinking too much, or not, whatever, it has my reasons for a lot of things. And all of a sudden that's gone. And you're like, Huh, I guess I don't have to do that. And then you start getting mad. This is too easy to do this. Now I'm not doing what I should do now and I'm not now so put me in a weird position for a while it's

It's a weird position to be in and it's funny talking a lot a lot of athletes get that way too when they're done their career you've had something you're working for your whole life coming up for the most majority of life and coming up next week next month, whatever here you have that coming up all of a sudden you don't have that let's go and which isn't a bad thing but I can I have a lot of opportunities I was really lucky with the you know my crossover in crossover and my fans are great. I'm able to do a lot of things and a lot I make money doing a lot of things do like different things I kept most spend a lot of my money so I'm doing okay yeah. I got paid to do what I love for a living. I love that and people have said oh you'll miss this deal. Yeah got to do I miss I miss I miss training every day I miss the guy you know hanging out with the guys every day going and you know I was cutting weight get ready for Fight week. How they all say they're all fun and I've missed fighting but it was time for time and place for everything.

Matthew Januszek 1:19:18 Yeah, it's one of those things have you found something now to sort of put that energy and focus into.

Chuck Liddell 1:19:24 Yeah, now I'm trying to work on some other stuff and I you know, one of the things I did you know I started to do the acting I like acting and trying to get better at it and you know it that's interesting for me it's fun so why don't we make some money and stays stay relevant? You know, Sam Cuban name out there, you know? And but you know, I was what did that thing with Tony Robbins and I was trying to kind of figure out you know, what I wanted to do, really? And I thought you know, I kind of know how to say I feel he was feeling weird saying I get people talking out what effect they've had on their life or, yeah, I thought them through, you know, kick I come to me couldn't talk. I couldn't like, okay man. But he said I got him through like he wasn't supposed to walk and like I'm through is by watching my fights before we therapy gone through therapy involves walking you know so you guys seen people say that they're like, Oh, it's weird for me like I don't like I don't feel that way I did what I love for them and you know I share with share my stories and what I've done growing up and if that helps people, it's great, but you know, now looking at it, I got enough so many of those type of things, I think, well, maybe I should go out and try to help people more like maybe make a bigger impact, especially and this is before all this craziness happened. And I was saying because so many people just stop being nice. You know, it's like, we're not going to be in just good to people, like, you know, just common courtesy or common respect isn't very common anymore. I know how many times I say Oh, man, I really liked this guy. He did this. My wife goes, Oh, he shouldn't do that. That's normal. Like, isn't it like no other? It used to be Yeah, but now you just do a normal thing. Hey, you know, so I'd be a great role model.

Matthew Januszek 1:21:23 I don't know. I didn't see that.

Chuck Liddell 1:21:26 That's the thing. I used to say all the time to get a role model. It's interesting. You say that? For us to say that to me as a man. I didn't have to be anybody's home. No, I didn't. I don't want to be but no, I've, I've come to a point now where I'm like, You know what? I am a I don't care if you ask for it. You got it. So being one Hmm. You know, and I think it's made me more accountable for my actions to like the way I live monetize them. I don't care where I'd be I do my thing. I earned the right to do wherever I want. I learned I you know, what nice is that? What have you done? Like I? Yeah, I did everything I wanted in my career. Yeah, now I can live however I want.

Matthew Januszek 1:22:10 You know, not many people can really say that, you know, you've as we spoke off camera, you know, you've got a degree in accounting, which is, I guess most people, I didn't know that before. You've had a fantastic, you know, career as an athlete. You know, and an amazing career ready, and you've been part of building one of the sorts of, you know, one of the biggest sports now, in the world, you know, it's and you're a nice guy.

Chuck Liddell 1:22:32 Yeah, and I was, I'm a nice guy treat people but no matter what I do, but whether I like it or not, people can jazz people look up to me.

Matthew Januszek 1:22:40 Yeah. So well, you're a good person to spotlight particularly what's going on in the world now with so much craziness. You know, if, if, if I wanted someone my son to look up, do you know your good role model?

Chuck Liddell 1:22:51 Yeah. Well, it's funny too. Like, I actually have, I have a couple of shirts. And when people gave me that I was like, I'm like a violin solves everything. I are, you know, and I like, I like a show like that. Because it's, it's not the way I am. Yeah. But that's how people think I am. I they want it. So it makes people laugh. Like, it's like, it's funny, and I think it's funny. Yeah. But, you know, it's the way I mean, it's like, people may like, I don't know, man, people just don't have respect for each other again, you know, there's, we can, we can agree to disagree about them. It's okay. Don't have to agree on everything. You know, there's certain things we should all agree on. But that majority of like, you know, nuances issues. I mean, a we can be okay, right. I've got a lot of friends that don't have the same beliefs. I do. I mean, they're some of the common ones, but they have different ways again, they're okay. Yeah, so it's okay.

Matthew Januszek 1:23:57 So are you being you um, is there anything that scares you?

Chuck Liddell 1:24:02 You know, I that question I always say like, what really scares me was those like, the cat to catch a predator? Was those catch Predator that show when they have the guys like TV magic kids or, like, that guy's trying to like something like that. Like, I was around and couldn't take care of couldn't protect my kids but other than that, I mean, I was I'm, I have a weird like, I won't have a sometimes I think I probably should be more worried about certain things, but like, like, you know, I always like so I go on a street corner like Oh, nothing you're not scared of anything. I'm like, Well, I just assume you guys are gonna put me in danger. Like I'm I guess I'm assuming they're not going to try something they shouldn't. They don't know how to do real well, because I am so I'm not worried about it. So don't worry. If I did, I probably wouldn't get the car but I'm not I don't have I don't think I have any, like unreasonable fear. And you know, it's one of those things like I wouldn't want I'm hoping I'm trying to I wish I could remember how my grandpa taught me because anything like I've never been afraid of a man in my life and my thing was as good as I was raised you can fight an offense with fighting you know, I don't care how big you are how many people got with a with a human fight as we fight you know one of my buddies our brand Penny he said to me it's kind of thing I don't know if I kick your ass. Keep the shit up. We're gonna find out I know and that's kind of how I've always felt that one of my fighters came in to me one time and he would walk in a bar and look around and see if which guys can might be able to you know might do fine why would I do that? I won't find anybody Yeah, just if something happens whether I fight or not fight him It didn't matter. But you know, I think for me that was always made stuff a lot easier going I mean, we're worried about worried about anybody picking on you

Matthew Januszek 1:26:22 So what's your you know? What's some of you at the moment? What some of your favorite fighters and enjoy watching in the UFC?

Chuck Liddell 1:26:30 Oh favorite fighters? I mean, well, Anderson Silva was one of my one of my favorites to watch. Besides the guys are really good friend. I mean, Matt he was a good friend of mine. I love watching Matt. BJ Penn back in the day good friends of mine You know guys as always that extra motion of the you know lumberjack shirt is still on the watch him fight he's out there still banging tough kid man and let's see what he loves. He loves he's he's a lot like I am a lot of fighting loves a job I get I like the guys that are real fighters and guys, and like some of these guys like I get it like that. It's like it's kind of weird nowadays like sometimes some of this PR something a little overboard. Yeah man like I mean I was like you promote a fight but there's always that little there's only should be accepted you know certain things you leave out certain things yeah, you know but you know if you saw that song fine but within reason you know that respect to the second like a mutual respect like certain lines you don't cross Yeah, but some of these guys some of these guys touch with their noses and face I'm like, I don't know like cuz that's not okay. Like you're not facing off for a fight. You can do anything you want but touch me Yeah. touching me it's not okay.

Matthew Januszek 1:28:00 Do you think some of that's now because it like you right? There always seem to be some sort of you know gentleman's agreement and it was fairly professional now you see some of the stuff nowadays and it does seem as though I'm not sure whether it's all high for I guess it helps to get headlines and get people

Chuck Liddell 1:28:15 Again I would say it's trying to get you are trying to get they are trying to get to people that aren't yeah, aren't fight fans to watch. That's maybe that's just something gets them into it more and that's okay. I mean, I guess that's okay. But I just I mean, there's certain little things that wouldn't have flown with me but I think you figure that out right away and I mean, you know, I mean, I don't know like he was like, I mean, I was talking about that could be you know, a big fight that happen I mean, like, Okay, I get to you're angry and this and that and why it happen out in the front row it was gonna break it up. How do we do we got in the back. I would wait, we got to find you right into your locker room. So we're have a knock the door miners will take care of this right here.

That's because I'm not the guy and I got to try to find a guy at a bar somewhere where I'm just getting broken up, you know, and everyone's jumping in to stop it. I won't say oh, I'll wait to see somewhere else. Let's see where it says to me. Like there if you if you want to find and I don't get me wrong, but that's I'm talking about religious mom and I get that I understand could be i but i just i guess i wouldn't. I wouldn't talk to him about maybe doing that in the background. Right? Because then because for me that whenever I get finally out there, it doesn't danger. Danger other people for one, but more important Doesn't get broken up. Yeah.

Matthew Januszek 1:30:03 Do you think it's in some ways it's become a little bit more theatrical? Like you're talking off camera about going to Brazil and you know, 30 minute fights and you know, no, no, no rules. You know, that sounds like I thought UFC was brutal, but that sounded pretty brutal is it was that is that on a different level to what you see on television now?

Chuck Liddell 1:30:24 Oh, I mean, it's just different rules, different things. I mean, guys, you're fighting back then. It was Columbia. I don't. I actually, for me doing the 130 minute fight. I was supposed to go down for an eight man tournament. For a night man. I was an eight man tournament. That's three fights in one night. I actually the guy that went there, they decided to do a 155 pound tournament, and then do super fight. So I was one of the super fights. But the 155 pound tournaments I'm watching our fight before the fight. One guy fought three fights at night.

Matthew Januszek 1:30:56 330 minute fight tournaments.

Chuck Liddell 1:30:57 He won 330 minute fights. The other guy, the other guy, then the guy that he beat. finished this guy, his first guy and like the first minute, there's a second guy like two minutes. And then and he's only got three minutes total come up with last fight. The other night, 60 minutes logged in. Beat him in 19 is pretty tough.

Matthew Januszek 1:31:19 And you have to end with 30 minutes, right? You just go until someone can't go anymore is 30 minutes rate or decision after 30 minutes but they was three minutes

Chuck Liddell 1:31:28 It's like if they get submitted or knocked out. You know, it's one round, right? 130 minute round.

Matthew Januszek 1:31:34 It was it was fun. You got to be pretty fit to serve in the tent.

Chuck Liddell 1:31:40 Yeah, it was in great shape back then. It was like, it was like me I had a bunch of kickboxing fights. But my It was my third mixed martial arts fight. second one was closed fist. I was open and strike one.

Matthew Januszek 1:31:59 Crazy so where did the Mohawk come from? That it's your signature? Is that branding thing?

Chuck Liddell 1:32:04 Well, you know, no, it wasn't to start like here. Here's what happened. We were in college wrestling. And we're all going to Slayer. Slayer calm. And all my buddies decided they want to shave their heads. Now I'd had until 10th grade I had my heads actually a little shorter than this my life kind of all the way down. And actually, I got my grandma and my grandpa let me grow it out a little bit longer, like about that long. When I was in high school because my in my junior high I teach was a substitute teacher came up to me campaigns that hey, I'm really interested in your, your, your skinhead, right? I got I'm like, I want to talk to me about my skin of culture, right? Like I'm a skinhead would be talking about skin. And I know my grandma makes me cut my hair like we're talking about and I told him I just told him laughing but I thought it was funny, like eyebrows. And they all we don't want people to understand, okay, we're like, I have to grow my hair a little bit. So anyway, fast forward with over 22 I think on out not 21 point view, we're going on a slayer concert. And I'm like, everyone shave their heads. I'm like, my hair like that. My wife. I'm not doing that. Well, you got to do something. How about a mohawk? We'll do more of your mock. And right after that. I don't I think I have that one up. We did the midstate. Fair court the Minot State Fair. I would know I was security miss a fair from Dr. Ritter first. That's like 13 days straight up there and got up again. I do like I did, like 12 hours of the day that I do the concert by the Mohegan and that sound for some of the Mohawk cousins that just kind of funny because my buddies, one of my good buddies now was the guy that hired us. And he, I show like, I'm sure I'm not going to think that kid show up. But the more we do that is like he's like, okay, and it was it was a cop time. Like, it's like me like But anyway, so we're doing that. And I got known by other vendors. And I was up by as the guy was more I was part. We're gonna I just started working in a bar downtown to in San Luis Obispo, and everyone knew me and I won't. I'll say everybody knew who I was from there. And so I had like, I knew I was so I just kind of kept them on. And it just kind of went into what I was finding. And I don't know if I would have it would have kept it the whole time but I kind of have gotten the tattoo on the top my head now

Matthew Januszek 1:34:59 What's that? karate

Chuck Liddell 1:35:02 that's all its own story, but I'll get there. So I love that tattoo. I started kickboxing I got the tattoo on the side of my head, because when I started kickboxing my style was gonna strip me and my mother. And my original cries out you were your gem patch. That was quake on Friday. No, you were Jim patch until your black belt, your black belt. This is what the patch you were on our Rocky. So really, what I was saying was a few iron you can take for me. That's how I felt. That's what I was doing. I wanted to put it somewhere where they could see it.

Matthew Januszek 1:35:46 Why did they take it?

Chuck Liddell 1:35:47 Because as bastardizing the art is going and fighting. I was doing something else.. I was going to do kickboxing right there probably man, I was going to training with the guy that came to the gym.

Matthew Januszek 1:36:03 So yours like, right I can I'm gonna

Chuck Liddell 1:36:05 but I earned it. You can't take it from me just how I felt. And I put it I put it up there because I was at that time was still planning on getting a real job. I wanted it somewhere where you could see it without my shirt and take my shirt off. Or when it was time to cover it up if easy, right? So I meant you know, but but but boy you want to go bonuses don't decide, by the time ago bought a job for to fire me right. But um, so I saw I got on my head, and it said the tattoo. But

Matthew Januszek 1:36:41 that's become you're sort of....

Chuck Liddell 1:36:42 taking a look but and then when I was kickboxing, so let's go go to kickbox I was working at a bar, and there's inset with the guys and guys in a fight. It's sort of money from a girl and I wouldn't say some guy that got it back and then they want to find me and knock him out with all that stuff. So I only ended up in court inside a court case coming up, and I had a kickboxing match the week before I was going to court. And so I was going my employer at the time had me grow my hair out when we grow my hair out. So I go out and I fight and the promoter caught like, then calls me the next day and don't ever do that again. You can't show people or everyone bad like but most of my people are mad because you didn't show up to fight. Expect to see that what was the guy I don't have the mark when they say he was gonna fight. I had a second round knockout not fighter head to head kick knockout. But they didn't they didn't know it was me. So they were mad. And I'm I think for me from there. I'm like, Well, that makes it me. Okay, that it's easily identifiable. Hmm. And so that's which is funny as john already the original like the matchmaker before then those those I bought it took it over. I thought I thought it was goofy. And I should get rid of them all. back then. I guess who would say no? Yeah.

Matthew Januszek 1:38:17 So just to wrap up then quick questions. And so you you're on Dancing with the Stars, I believe. How did you when he was in there? Obviously it was very much outside your comfort zone. But he did you take the same winning attitude in that competition?

Chuck Liddell 1:38:35 I work harder than probably anybody. Right? I mean, I work harder, but I should have been smarter. I mean, I should have learned a little different. Um, but I were I was trying to do my best. I put in more as many hours as I could. I'm out doing long days and trying I just it just, um, Michael Irving was on the same time as me and he said it really I heard him say at one time on there said it really well. I'm used to tell him my body what to do. And it just doesn't. I've been an athlete my whole life. Use that. As it was his arm. dancin, it just didn't work. The thing is

that I can't really the basic position for I mean, I don't know how I could set up the basic position they want you in for all it answer is the one position or and every sport I've ever done, if you're in that position, you're screwed. If you ever get in that position, you're done. That's, that's the position you never want to be in. And like so, like, Ana from the sky was my partner and she's like, and like I get behind a step and I'm trying to catch up. But like as soon as I need to catch up, I go into fight mode, right? So I go into, I want to fight stance mode. See, and she's like, the problem is when you create that space with me and get like that bigger the bigger you are, is I gotta go Three, I go three times as far now, right to get to my spot, which is not easy. Actually the other really hard thing for got bibliographies. And she said it on the next season this year then she called me afterwards. She said, on top of her head, apologizing, and I was like, She's so sweet. But um, I might say, she called me is like a Sherman tank. Like, if you went the wrong way, I can't say something like, I don't say I really mean it like that, like, in a bad way. I'm like, No, I get you guys. Were good. You and I will be me, you'll be a very that's a good way of saying it. Like, basically, she couldn't back lead me. I mean, a lot of small guys girls will just help pull them along. And back then if they can lead them. Right. Right. For me. Like if I go the wrong way we're going up. He was not changing my actually, that you know that show. I was about 230 when they sign on to that show. And what they did I see, thank you. But anyway, for that show, I did the show the whole time back to 15. Because if you can see, I was just looking at that as laughing looking at all the pictures and says, that's the picture. We took the first the first time we got together there. And there's pictures when I went actually started dancing, and it was 230 to 215. And for me it's a big difference because I carry all my weight in prayer. Right so anytime I'm big, like 15 pounds bigger, it's it looks worse than it is. But I was messing around before and Anna dances to me at the gym because I was there I'm on all mountain I'm always I'm be down to 15 a month. And he now he didn't know I sign on to dance with the stars yet. So he didn't know as I go. So I'm a little while to 15 a month. No way. 10 grand sends you off. I looked at that data for 10 grands, I'll be 50 I'll be 50 pounds lighter tomorrow. He's like, No, no, you can't cut Wait, yeah, there's actually be real way. He actually Batman, he paint up pictures to two days before three. One day before we take on weight. But I'm that motivated like that for me like that. Having that. That motivation? I probably wouldn't have made it down for just for the show. Because you don't have that like, competition that goes you go.

And but when you make a bad Okay, I got it. No, that was the gym. It was fun. But actually, but it got me out. I didn't show it to 15.

Matthew Januszek 1:42:38 So final question, then Chuck, Escape Your Limits is about escaping what you've believed or other people have said is impossible and gone on to make it possible. What would be an example of escaping your own personal limits?

Chuck Liddell 1:42:53 You know, and ....

Matthew Januszek 1:43:02 outside of your dancing?

Chuck Liddell 1:43:05 Yeah. I mean, no. No, they were how I would sum that up on personal limits.

Matthew Januszek 1:43:23 Has there ever been anything that you've, I guess, believe you might not be able to do and I suppose prove that to yourself? In a way?

Chuck Liddell 1:43:32 I'm trying to think

Matthew Januszek 1:43:44 Should have prepped you for that question. or other people have said that you can't do it and you've gone on

Chuck Liddell 1:43:55 you know, oh, well, you know, that. One things like oh, no, actually really, in my career. I'm fighting. And you know, I remember that, that you know, actually one of the things I hadn't put my, my, my board when I for example, write different things in my mirror when I was training. And the one thing I you know, one thing one thing I put up no one wants to see Chuck fight. Something someone said to Dana, when they first went up to about four and a half years I first bought the company. It was basically um you know, Tito's management of people and other people. Like he if he's your champion, you know, I think he was management champion. You'll die. There's no phases no personalities got no gender, no fan appeal. Kind of was I was a loud mouth. I was a no And when I heard that, that, that drove me more than anything ready to be. I put that was up to the rest of my career after that was after that, after world war two fights was the first fight that the UFC, Dana and Lorenzo put on, let's say took over and I had that out. And the funny thing is, I came back, I came out the next fight. next fight.. I showed up, and like I was, I was just, it was just, That, to me, was a big driving force. And like, I know, they were complaining about Okay, you're not before before I became a champion, and then you're just not doing good enough for me. I won't get an interview coach. Now they weren't they no one taught me I'm, I'm not. I'm a smart guy. I just don't know. I do interviews. Guys, back then. Especially guys. So the dumbest questions. Like, I mean, I wrote out the questions for you, Coach general. Okay, there's a good question in here, number one, that he should write down 10 the 10 most common questions. There's not one good question. And there's only about three questions. And because we get guys that know what we're talking about. Jonah can do it because they had to write and they did a few good lessons on added to two lessons learned. So much better. You're doing so much better than what happened. I actually told was that. Well, I wasn't gonna coach you guys can tell me get better, but not telling me how I am. It's like me telling you like, punch harder. Well, punch harder. I'll like help. Yeah, but, and the funny thing is, after that, I heard them get another guy's interview coaches. But it's a skill, like anything else. But like, I was the thing. I was what, like he told me I can't I can't entertain people, like, I'll fight. I'll figure it out. I mean, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna change my personality. But I, I, I can answer. You know, it's, it comes down to like, my best interviews ever always been with guys that are really good at doing interviews, right. It was really good. They're great interviews. Why? Because I can talk. Yeah, I am conversation with somebody. I just, I'm not, you know, I don't have much of a soundbite. I have a bunch of sound bites made up. And I'm not like a meathead. Like, I'm not gonna just go out and say stupid, I'm not, I'm not gonna give you your typical WWE type. I'm not that nothing wrong with it. That's good, too. And the guy. I'm not mad at guys like Chael Sonnen was one of those big loud mouth interview guys. I allow about guys said crazy stuff. But hey, he got him a couple title shots. And he was one of the most boring fighters out there. He's like, a throwback to the ground and ground land pray guys, you know, like, but as like muscle. Yeah.

Matthew Januszek 1:48:14 So you said you put it on the mirror? And that's that was your

Chuck Liddell 1:48:17 alibi, then that drove me like that, that got me that? You know, need an extra my little extra motivation that was there always. Yeah. And it was like, and I will, but I will. And I've always kind of, I've always kind of been like that with other things. You know, tell me I can't do something that's like, tell me I have to do something. I can't do something. If you want me to do it.

I told me I can't like I'm not gonna be able to you can't you can't do this. You can't do that. And that's your I'll show. I'll see if I can, you know. Now, I'm not saying for people like that doesn't mean like something I don't want to do. Like, I don't want to do it. He told me not to do it. It's not gonna make me do it.

I don't care. But no one asked me if I have something I want to do. And I tell me, I can't figure out how we're going to do some programs.

Matthew Januszek 1:49:16 Well, Chuck, thank you so much. We could have talked all evening. I know you've got to, you've got to go. But thank you so much for your time. It's been absolutely wonderful. And I'd like to say I know, I know. You've got a lot going on. And you know, it means a lot to me, and hopefully to many of the people they'll get to listen to this interview. So thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai