Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 17 OCTOBER 1961

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

740 Liquor Acts Amendment Bill [ASSEMBLY] Questions

TUESDAY, 17 OCTOBER, 1961

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, Murrumba) took the chair at 11 a.m.

QUESTIONS

SCHEIFELBEIN V. COPE Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ Leader of the Opposition) asked the Minister for Justice- "(1) Did Mrs. June Marie Scheifelbein, Teddington Road, Tinana. via Mary­ borough, write to him on September 29, 1961, claiming that she had been unjustly dealt with in respect of a motor smash on the Bruce Highway between her vehicle and a truck driven by Kennelh Bruce Cope on 18 August, 1959?" "(2) If so, is it a fact that Cope pleaded guilty to a charge in respect of this accident and was fined £10 by Mr. H. J. Bradshaw, S.M., in the Maryborough Magistrate's Court and, if so, what was the charge?" "(3) Is it also a fact that Mrs. Scheifel­ bein sued Cope for a total of £600 damages in the Maryborough Magistrate's Court in a claim arising out of this accident and that Mr. Bradshaw, S.M., made a finding in favour of Cope, notwithstanding that he had stated in this judgment that Questions [17 OcTOBER] Questions 741

Cope (a) had failed to keep a proper or cases by some form of compensation, any look-out, (b) had failed to drive as whether by way of insurance or otherwise. near as practicable to the left hand side It would appear that legislation would be of the roadway, (c) had failed to exercise required to make any effective provision proper care towards Mrs. Scheifelbein, as for cases of this nature and I propose, after a user of the roadway, (d) had failed to completion of the preliminary enquiries, to take any or proper measure to avoid the submit the matter to Cabinet for consider­ collision, (e) had failed to keep his motor ation." truck under proper control, (f) had driven on the wrong side of the roadway and CoNVICTION oF DouGLAS NoRMAN O'CoNNOR (g) was asleep at the time of the collision?" UNDER STATE TRANSPORT FACILITIES ACTS "(4) Is it not a fact that despite these conclusions in his judgment the Magistrate Mr. BENNETT (South Brisbane) asked found Cope not guilty of negligence and the Minister for Justice- awarded him costs of £46 14s. against the "(1) Was Douglas Norman O'Connor, complainant, Mrs. Scheifelbein?" Rose Street, Kilcoy, convicted on August 31, 1961, of an offence under "(5) If the facts are as stated, will he section 23 of the Transport Acts?" instruct the Crown Law Office to investi­ gate this accident and its Court sequel "(2) Was the offence in relation to a with the objective of correcting what manifest for a truck load of cattle, which appears to be a gross miscarriage of manifest should have read Kilcoy-Cannon justice?" Hill instead of, as it did, Cannon Hill­ Kilcoy?" Hon. A. W. MUNJRO (Toowong) replied­ "(3) Was the error purely a typo­ "(!) Yes." graphical error made in a Government Department? If so, why was this technical "(2) On February 16, 1960, Kenneth and unfair prosecution launched?" Bruce Cope was convicted on a plea of guilty by letter on a complaint that on "(4) If the error was purely one of August 18, 1959, at Kanighan in the Petty inverted destinations, what does he intend Sessions District of Tiara being the driver to do to correct the injustice?" of a vehicle to wit an International truck "(5) Will the accused in this case be and semi-trailer upon a road, namely the given the same treatment as was meted out Bruce Highway, Kanighan, aforesaid, did in the Cavanagh case in which part of the fail to keep such vehicle as near as practic­ stolen moneys is still missing?" able to the left side of the carriage-way at "(6) Are prosecutions under the Trans­ all times. He was fined £10 and ordered port Acts launched purely with an eye to pay 14s. costs of Court and in default to revenue rather than to justice?" of payment he was ordered to be impris­ oned for one month." Hon. A. W. MUNRO (Toowong) replied- "(3) Yes." "(1) On August 31, 1961, Douglas Norman O'Connor, by his Solicitor, Mr. "(4) The Magistrate further found that Arnold Hopgood, pleaded guilty before the defendant went to sleep without any the Court of Petty Sessions, Brisbane, to prior warning of his inability to keep a charge that on November 3, 1960, on awake and in circumstances in which a the Bruce Highway at Strathpine he did reasonably careful driver might not have contravene a provision of Section 23 of been aware that he was likely to fall asleep 'The State Transport Facilities Acts, 1946 and that in these circumstances personal to 1959' in that he did use on the said road injuries were caused to the plaintiff and a vehicle (Registered Number NAU-419) the defendant was not guilty of negligence. for the carriage of goods such goods not The Magistrate gave judgment for the being at that time carried upon that vehicle defendant and awarded him costs amount­ under and in accordance with a provision ing to £46 14s." of Part III of the said Acts. He was con­ "(5) Mrs. Scheifelbein appealed to the victed as for a second offence and fined District Court and on December 12, 1960, £25 and ordered to pay 14s. costs of Court Judge Carter dismissed the appeal and and £4 17s. 6d. fees, in default imprison­ awarded the defendant costs fixed at £30 ment for one month, and he was allowed together with the costs of all necessary one month in which to pay." documents at a rate not exceeding 1s. 6d. "(2) Just prior to the interception of the per folio against the plaintiff. As this vehicle driven by O'Connor and on which matter has been determined according to was being carried nineteen head of cattle, the proper processes of the law by the another vehicle carrying twenty head of proper judicial authorities, the Crown Law cattle and driven by one, Watson, was Office cannot interfere. As a general com­ intercepted. Watson stated that O'Connor ment I may say that I am very concerned had a manifest for both loads. O'Connor, at the position which has arisen in this case on interception, produced a form which and I have directed that enquiries be made was a manifest written by himself which by the Crown Law Office as to the feas­ provided for the carriage of twenty-nine ibility of a plan to cover such types of head of cattle from Kilcoy to Cannon Hill 742 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

and referred to Permit No. 3690, a con­ he uses the obviously biassed, exaggerated dition of which was the carriage of a and unsupported remarks of a person with manifest at any time goods were being an axe to grind in contr'!.diction to the carried under the authority of the permit. professional and capable opinion of gov­ O'Connor told the interce-pting police ernmental advisers. With the upthrust of officer that the form he produced was a northern development, for which this Gov­ manifest for the carriage of the whole ernment mainly is responsible, the Honour­ thirty-nine head of cattle on the two trucks able Member for Townsvi!le North could and that he had made an error in com­ occupy his time gainfully by giving closer pleting it claiming that he meant to write attentwn to the requirements of his own '39' instead of '29' and 'Cannon Hill to electorate. In this regard, he could take Kilcoy' instead of 'Kilcoy to Cannon Hill.' as a pattern and example the zealous The Crown have evidence that a further manner in which Country and Liberal manifest came into existence after the Party Members apply themselves in the interception showing the carriage on vehicle interests of their electorates. The fact is Q654-666 (that driven by Watson) of that, prior to any approval being given for twenty head of cattle from Cannon Hill to expenditure on the Julia Creek-Normanton Kilcoy. O'Connor subsequently claimed that road, the matter was discussed very fully he had forgotten to make a manifest in with the Honourable Member for Flinders, respect of the nineteen head of cattle who is a very capable Member and has carried on his own truck from Cannon Hill lived in the West all his life. Investigations to Kilcoy. In fact twenty-nine head of were made by the Director of Northern cattle were delivered at Cannon Hill on Development and by one of the senior that day and the case for the prosecution Engineers in the Department of Main was that O'Connor was carrying the Roads, as well as by the Commonwealth nineteen head of cattle from Brisbane to Bureau of Agricultural Economics. In Kilcoy on the return trip without a mani­ addition, agreement was reached with fest, after he and Watson had delivered the representatives of the Commonwealth twenty-nine head carried on the forward Government by the Co-ordinator General journey.'' of Public Works (Sir James Holt) and the "(3 and 4) The manifests were made by Commissioner of Main Roads (Mr. C. N. O'Connor and no such documents let alone Barton). The section of the Julia Creek­ typographical errors were made by any Normanton road now being built does not Government Department, and the case for cross the Flinders River. It does, of neces­ the prosecution against the defendant was sity, cross the channels of the Gilliatt River one of the manipulation of manifests for over a seven-mile section which has been the ultimate purpose of evading the pay­ specially designed to resist erosion. Mostly ment of the proper permit fees." the road is in flood-free country. About 40 miles south of Normanton the road "(5 and 6) The assumptions on which crosses the Flinders River on an existing the Honourable the Member bases his low-level crossing which gives little trouble. questions are wrong and unjust. O'Connor's I decline to be drawn into any wrangle on case is in no way comparable with hotel monopolies." Cavanagh's case."

RED BLOODWOOD SLEEPERS FOR RAILWAY JULIA CREEK-NORMANTON BEEF CATTLE DEPARTMENT ROAD Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) asked Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) asked the Minister for Development, Mines, Main the Minister for Transport- Roads and Electricity- "(!) Has the Railway Stores Branch, "(!) Has he seen the disturbing state­ Townsville, always accepted red blood­ ment by a prominent Julia Creek resident wood seven-feet sleepers? If so, why have as reported in 'The Courier-Mail' of these sleepers been excluded in the Cairns October 13, 1961, that the Julia Creek­ area?" Normanton beef road was a 'laugh' and "(2) Is he aware that in the Cardwell­ that it was all right on paper, but that Kirrama Range area this timber is very in the monsoonal rain season when the prevalent and its exclusion from the list Flinders River north of Julia Creek was will throw cutters out of work?" thirty miles wide portion of the road would be washed out?" "(3) In view of the foregoing facts, will "(2) Has this surprising remark in fact he review the decision to exclude this any substance and, if so, what portion timber?" of the road will be annually endangered Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) hv the Flinders River?" replied- Hon. E. EVANS (Mirani) replied- "(1 to 3) Bloodwood has never been "(1 and 2) In this question, the Honour­ regarded as an entirely satisfactory timber able Member for Townsville North for use as railway sleepers and it is displays a deplorable lack of intellect when desired to eliminate its use as quickly as Questions [17 OCTOBER] Questions 743

possible. With this object in view, instruc­ been made to the firm. Value of work tions have been issued to not accept this remaining to be done under the contract species of timber for use as sleepers in approximates £9,000 and the Commission areas where it is possible to obtain require­ at present is holding slightly more than ments in other species. It is now consid­ that sum in retention money on work done, ered possible to do this in the Cairns area damages and security deposit, i.e. an and, in the circumstances, bloodwood will overall security of £18,000 for the com­ not in future be accepted in that area." pletion of work valued at £9,000. Con­ struction of the houses has been and will be strictly supervised." COMMISSION HoUSES CONSTRUCTED IN TOWNSVILLE BY AYR CONCRETE PRODUCTS FORD FALCON CARS BOUGHT FOR POLICE Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) asked DEPARTMENT the Treasurer and Minister for Housing- "(!) What is the number of houses Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) asked the which Ayr Concrete Products has con­ Minister for Labour and Industry- tracted to build for the Queensland Hous­ "(!) Since they came on the market, ing Commission in Townsville?" how many Ford Falcon cars have been bought for (a) the Police Department and "(2) What is the origin of this firm and (b) all other Departments under his con­ did previous evidence exist to prove that it trol?" was capable of carrying out such a con­ tract in a capable and workmanlike "(2) In the same period how many cars manner?" of other brands were bought for (a) the Police Department and (b) other Depart­ "(3) Is there a penalty clause in the con­ ments under his control?" tract and is construction proceeding according to schedule?" "(3) What was the average price paid for the different brands of cars so "(4) If there is a time Jag, will the con­ bought?" struction of these homes be strictly super­ vised during the firm's effort to overcome "(4) How many Ford Falcons and other it?" brands of cars have in the same period been sold as used cars and what was the Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth) replied­ average price received for (a) Ford "(!) Thirteen houses in respect of which Falcons and (b) other brands of cars?" a security deposit of £700 is held by the Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough- Commission." Premier), for Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. "(2) The firm was first registered in Coot-tha), replied- 1954 at Ayr. Before the firm's tender was "(!) (a) 310, (b) 6." accepted enquiries made at Brisbane and Townsville revealed that (a) financially "(2) (a) 65, (b) 14." there was no doubt that the firm could "(3) Police Department-Ford Falcon complete the work, (b) it had completed a sedans (with heavy duty generator regu­ £30,000 timber building for a Common­ lator, battery, suspension and roof wiring), wealth laboratory at Millaroo near Ayr £827 10s.; Ford Falcon sedans (as above and (c) had a current contract for six but with larger tyres and tubes), £833 9s.; houses for the Commonwealth at Garbutt, Ford Falcon panel vans, £824 13s.; Ford Townsville. The supervising architects for 300 sedans, £1,500; Ford Thames trucks, the erection of the laboratory stated that £1,205; Morris 850 sedans, £557 10s.; the building was well constructed and the Willys Jeeps, £1,080 12s. 6d.; Willys station contract satisfactorily completed and that wagon, £1,582 14s. Sub-Departments other they had accepted the firm's price of than Police-Ford Falcon sedans, £818 2s.; £20,000 for a building at Winton. The Ford Falcon sedans automatic transmis­ Commission's Inspector reported that the sion, £958 10s.; Ford 300 sedans, standard of work under construction on £1,526 13s.; Ford Zephyr utility, the Commonwealth's houses at Garbutt £883 12s. 4d.; Ford Thames utility, was satisfactory." £908 4s. 9d.; Ford Thames panel van, "(3 and 4) Yes, there is a damages £949; Willys Jeep utility 4-wheel drive, clause. Times for completion of the con­ £1,242 18s.; Holden utilities, £796 !Os.; tract were, for eight houses by June 30, Holden sedans-Standard, £796 10s.; 1961, and for five houses by July 21, 1961. Holden station sedans--Standard, At 9th instant six of the houses were £869 15s." completed, three 83 per cent. to 91 per "(4) Police Department-(a) Ford cent., one 74 per cent., one 49 per cent. Falcon sedans, 21 at an average price of and two 30 per cent. completed. Payments £800 each. (b) Seventy Holden sedans at on the basis of 7 5 per cent. of the value an average price of £597 14s. each; of work done, less deductions to cover Seventy-seven Holden utilities at an aver­ damages to date in respect of the time age price of £431 each; Two Ford Zephyr taken in excess of the specified time, have sedans at an average price of £700 each; 744 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

Seventeen Ford Custom and 300 sedans at SEALING OF COOLANGATTA TO MOSSMAN an average price of £710 13s. each; Two HIGHWAY Chevrolet sedans at an average price of Mr. COBURN (Burdekin): I desire to ask £530 each; Thirty-three International the Minister for Development, Mines, Main utilities at an average price of £319 3s. Roads and Electricity whether he has answers each; Twenty-two Land Rovers at an to the following questions, which I addressed average price of £296 17s. each; Nine to him on October 12.- Willys Jeeps at an average price of £400 "(1) What sections of the paved highway each; One Holden panel van at a from Coolangatta to Mossman are price of £472 10s.; One Ford Thames presently under construction and what is truck at a price of £205. Other than the length of each section?" Police Department-(a) Nil. (b) Three "(2) When is it anticipated that each Dodge utilities at an average price of section will be completed?" £181 18s. 4d. each; Nine Holden sedans "(3) What sections will remain unsealed at an average price of £282 each; One on this highway, when the sections Holden panel van at a price of £254 7s. 6d. presently under construction or for which approval for construction has been REDUCTION OF PASSENGER SERVICES ON released are completed?" PINKENBA LINE "(4) What are the widths of the sections of the highway now under construction Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) asked the Minis­ and to what standard are they being ter for Transport- built?" "(!) To what extent is it proposed to Hon. E. EVANS (Mirani) replied- reduce passenger services on the Pinkenba Line?" "(1, 2 and 4) All schemes for comple­ tion of the Coolangatta-Mossman Highway "(2) When is it proposed that the reduc­ have now been prepared and approved with tions, if any, shall take effect?" the exception of a few minor sections at Railway overbridges, etc. All these Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) schemes provide for pavement widths of replied- 18 feet or more and all allow for bitumen "(1 and 2) Passenger services on this surfacing. Details of the various sections line are still under review." under construction are as follows-

Pavement Anticipated Section Length Width I Standard of Date of I I Construction Completion Miles i Feet Gin Gin-Miriam Vale- 14 Miles-IS Miles from Gin Gin .. .. 4 18 IBitumen .. April, 1962 23 Miles-25 Miles from Gin Gin .. .. 2 18 Bitumen .. April, 1962 {[ G_ravel .. .. August, 1962 25 Miles-30 Miles from Gin Gin .. .. 5 I 18 Bitumen .. December, 1962 Rockhampton-Mackay- Turkey Creek-Boothill Creek ...... 8 18 Bitumen .. June, 1962 Mackey -Bowen- Mount Ossa-Calen ...... 5 18 Bitumen .. December, 1962 Calen-Pindi Pindi ...... 3 18 Bitumen .. December, 1962 Wagoora-Yalbaroo ...... 31- 18 Bitumen .. December, 1962 Cathu-Mikoolu ...... 5} 18 Bitumen .. December, 1962 Bowen-Ayr- Wilmington-Maiden Creek ...... 11 18 Bitumen .. June, 1962 Guthalungra-Gumlu ...... 10 18 Bitumen .. June, 1962 Ingham-Cardwell- Seymour River-Range ...... 2 22 and 18 Bitumen .. August, 1962 Total under construction ...... 59

(3) Sections on which works have not yet commenced are-

Standard of Anticipated Section Length Pavement Date of Width Construction Completion Miles Feet I Ayr-Townsville- Stuart-Cluden ...... 4 24 and 18 Bitumen .. September, 1962 Cardwell- Tully- Euramo-Tully ...... t 18 Bitumen .. August, 1962 Total not yet commenced ...... 4}

Total not surfaced, Octobor, 1961-631- miles Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 745

PAPERS existed under the old industrial law whereby the Court had the power to decide what The following papers were laid on the bonus payments were to be made to table, and ordered to be printed:- employees of the mining company had Report of the Under Secretary for Devel­ worked satisfactorily. Generally there was opment and Mines for the year 1960. industrial peace and harmony in the area. Report of the Queensland Radium Institute Although many of the unions were not satis­ for the year 1960-1961. fied that their members were receiving an Report of the State Children Department adequate share of the tremendous profits of for the year 1960-1961. Mount Isa Mines Limited, at least there was peace and harmony in the town. We must, The following papers were laid on the then, understand that there had to be some table:- compelling reason for the Government to Orders in Council under The Criminal amend the law and I believe it was only Code. that sufficient pressure was brought to bear Ordinance under The City of Brisbane upon them by mining interests, not only Acts, 1924 to 1960. Mount Isa Mines Limited but also other potential mining companies in the State, Order in Council under The Co-operative insisting that the Government take away Housing Societies Acts, 1958 to 1961. from the Court the power to decide what Order in Council under The Stamp Acts, prosperity bonus or lead bonus or other 1894 to 1961. mineral bonus should be paid to the workers. Regulation under The Hospitals Acts, 1936 We must understand that our mineral to 1955. resources are only temporary, not permanent as soil and water can be. That being the case, the Government must accept responsibility SUPPLY for ensuring that there will not be complete COMMITTEE-FINANCIAL STATEMENT­ exploitation of them either by international RESUMPTION OF DEBATE monopolies or by Australian monopolies. The shareholding in many of these mining com­ (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, panies in the State and in Aust£alia is largely Clayfield, in the chair.) in the hands of overseas companies. They Debate resumed from 12 October (see are the people who are reaping the rich divi­ p. 700) on Mr. Hiley's motion- dends accruing from the mining development of Queensland and Australia. "That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the service of the year 1961-1962, a If further evidence is needed, the sum not exceeding £1,594 to defray the latest balance sheets published by Mount salary of Aide-de-Camp to His Excellency Isa Mines Limited give a clear indication of the Governor," the justice of the case being made by the on which Mr. Duggan had moved the fol­ industrial unions there at present. When the lowing amendment:- new industrial legislation was introduced, we "That the item 'Aide-de-Camp, £1,594' were told that it would mean greater peace be reduced by £1." and harmony in industry, that the companies would tend to conciliate more with the Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) (11.25 a.m.): I rise workers and that those workers would to support the Leader of the Opposition. receive a fair share of the increased profits Generally, I believe he has placed before the made. However, immediately, the company, Committee a substantial case in support of on the excuse that it intended to undertake his arguments. However, I intend to large-scale expansion-which, by the way, it elaborate in some detail particularly on the had undertaken in years past while bonus inadequacy and incompetency of the Govern­ payments were being made-refused either to ment, controlled as they are in a spirit of conciliate or to grant further increases, not­ compromise and irresolution, typical of a withstanding the fact that within a few miles two-party Government with two irreconcili­ men employed at Mary Kathleen were receiv­ able policies incapable of implementation ing a greater bonus than those at Mt. Isa. and frustrated by mutal personal and In other places in Australia such as Port political hostilities. If for no other reason, Pirie and Broken Hill, a similar practice has the substantial argument he put in respect grown up and is still in operation. But of Mt. Isa is sufficient to warrant a vote of Mount Isa Mines Limited has steadfastly no confidence in the Government. rejected any approach from the unions or The precipitate hostile action taken by the the workers to have this bonus increased. Minister for Labour and Industry last year The financial report relating to last year's in introducing new industrial laws into the operations by Mount Isa Mines Limited State has created industrial unrest which reveals that production increased by about could continue at great cost to the working 200,000 tons and that an additional profit population of Queensland, to Australia's of £570,000 over the preceding year brought national economy and also to the budgetary the net profit to a record £5.9 million. The position of the State. It is quite obvious that shareholders are to receive £2.4 million. The that action flowed from consultations total reserves rose from £15.6 million to between mining monopoly interests and the £19.45 million, and the profit of £5.9 million Government. The previous position that was made after reserves of £1.26 million for 746 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply taxation and £2 million for depreciation had get down to a stable balance at Mt. Isa. been taken from gross profits. As the Gov­ It is obvious that the Conciliation Commis­ ernment are responsible for any industrial sioners are interested in settling the dispute dispute that may exist at Mt. Isa, the figures in some manner. Neither Queensland nor that I have referred to are sufficient indi­ the Government themselves can afford to cation that the Government must accept their lose the tremendous amount of revenue that responsibility. I challenge them to accept will be lost through a prolonged dispute at the fact that they made a mistake in amend­ Mt. Isa. The unions are anxious for some ing the Industrial Conciliation and form of settlement. They do not see any Arbitration Act and to rectify that mistake reason why they should become mendicants by introducing an amendment to their own of the company. In the past the company legislation to give the Court power to has offered these conditions to the employees decide what bonus payment shall be paid by for one reason only, to encourage them to Mount Isa Mines Limited. remain in permanent employment at the Strangely enough, the Government are mine. We are not dealing with an isolated completely silent on this question, and have company that makes hire-purchase arrange­ been silent for the last few weeks. There has ments and sponsors home-building projects been no statement from the Premier and no for its employees. Broken Hill Pty. Co. statement from the Minister for Labour and Ltd. and many other large mining concerns Industry who has been absent from the throughout the world offer similar condi­ House. if he is ill, I extend my sympathy tions to their employees, only because they to him in his illness. But if the Premier is realise that they must do so if they are to acting as Minister for Labour. and Indust~-y, keep a permanent work force within their surely Parliament should receive from him industries. an assurance that the Government are attack­ ing the problem and that they intend to see It is my intention to elaborate somewhat that the men working at Mt. Isa receive some on the Government's financial details. In form of justice. doing so, I should like to quote a statement made by John Bright in the House of Com­ If the money made by Mount Isa Mines mons. I do so with due apologies to the Limited is repatriated from the country, it late Jim Larcombe. John Bright said- will be lost for all time. Many hon. members on the Government benches, have said from "Where was there a bad Government time to time that the development of the State whose finances were in good order: where requires that we should give every considera­ was there a good Government whose tion to companies of this type. However, we finances were in bad order?" do not expect the Government, while they I read that statement because I believe the are the representatives of the people, to disorder and confusion that obviously exist sacrifice every principle of government in are a result of the failure of the Country­ endeavouring to entice mining interests to Liberal Government to come to any degree Queensland. They are adopting this practice of stable compromise, which has caused com­ regardless of the repatriation of capital from plete confusion financially and in every other Australia, regardless of the fact that the way in relation to all aspects of government. interests of the workers are being sacrificed, and regardless of any cost to the Govern­ I think it is necessary to compare the posi­ ment. When we compare what is happening tion at the end of 1957 with the present in other States with what is happening in position. The Auditor-General's report Queensland, we find that Queensland is fall­ shows that at the end of June 1957 the ing farther and farther behind each year Government held in cash and investments in that the Government are in office. Alcoa has Trust and Special Funds £18,406,081, in been prepared to enter into the Kwinana­ Loan Fund £278,887, and the consolidated Geelong project. In 1957 the Government revenue overdraft was £3,697,287, leaving a of Queensland signed an agreement with credit balance of just on £15,000,000. Unfor­ Comalco, an agreement that was hawked tunately we have not the advantage of having overseas, but we are no closer to production the Auditor-General's report for the last under that agreement four years later. This financial year. I just mention that matter at year Alcoa of Australia has been formed, this stage because last year the Treasurer comprising Western Mining Company, Broken Hill South, and the American com­ made a valiant attempt to have it made pany of Alcoa. They are embarking upon available to the Committee for the Budget a project to build an alumina plant at debate. From time to time he has said that Kwinana to utilise the bauxite deposits of it is almost impossible to assess the financial Western Australia, and they will then build affairs of a Government unless the Auditor­ an aluminium smelter just outside Geelong. General's report is first made available to They will be in full production by 1963. hon. members. In reply to a question I In juxtaposition to the smelter will be a asked in the House I was told that invest­ plant to handle all the aluminium alloys and ments in the Trust and Special Funds avail­ other by-products. The project will not able to the Government at the end of June utilise hydro-electric power or the fine coal 1961 amounted to £11,857,814, with a cash deposits of Australia but will use the balance of £2,821,916. Over the year there brown coal deposits at Anglesea. was an increase in the credit balance of the Already we have lost our opportunity for Loan Fund of some £83,000 to £120,000. It an aluminium smelter. Let the Government gives a total of £14.7 million, which is not Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 747 very much different from the figure at the Queensland's share is reduced to 14 per cent. end of June, 1957. Other matters have to I have been generous in that figure by not be considered. There is a general deteriora­ including those special grants in the 14.6 tion although the difference is less than per cent. of reimbursement made to this £1,000,000. The aggregate amount of loan State from a total disbursement of funds for the financing of suspense accounts £291,000,000. in all departments at 30 June 1957 was £6.8 million. By 30 June 1960 that figure had I accept the Treasurer's statement that the loan allocations made available to this been reduced to £4.5 millions, and there is State have increased by 12 per cent. during a further reduction this year bringing it the last financial year, but they are still down, on a comparative basis, to almost inadequate and insufficient. From time to £3.7 million. The Treasurer has kept the time over the years the Treasurer, endeav­ people of Queensland in suspense while the ouring to score off hon. members on this Government are destroying our solvency. side, has stated that he and his Government Although the Treasurer has searched almost are suffering because of neglect over a num­ every possible avenue for finance it is still not ber of years, by previous Labour Govern­ possible for him to provide all the necessary ments. That argument is not satisfactory to and essential works and, at the same time, this Committee, because, particularly with give to the people of Queensland a balanced housing allocations, our figure has not budget. increased to any extent over the years. Since Let us review the various items of revenue. 1952-1953 there has been a gradual deteriora­ I believe that the most important of the tion in the allocation made by the Common­ many statements made by the Treasurer and wealth Government to Queensland. The the Premier in recent years are those in Commonwealth Government at present take relation to the taxation reimbursement the view that, because South Australia and, formula. It will be remembered that when I believe, Tasmania or Western Australia this formula was recast a couple of years were not at one time signatories to the Com­ ago the Premier made his famous statement monwealth-States Housing Agreement, that the star of Federation was in its additional funds should be made available ascendency, that the Commonwealth at last to those States for housing requirements. was operating as a united body and could From time to time the Treasurer makes statements to the effect that the housing now give to the people the greatest possible situation in Queensland has improved to the satisfaction in relation to the budgetary posi­ point when we are able to meet normal tion of all the States. requirements, thus giving the impression in At that time I criticised the formula other States that Queensland does not need because it ruled out the special assistance additional allocations for housing. Such grant that had, over a period of years, statements are dangerous, particularly when enabled the States, in times of inflation or we analyse the housing position. People who heavy unemployment, to receive, as the cannot make tenancy arrangements with the year progressed, some form of special assis­ Housing Commission are forced to pay the tance. That principle was abolished. Now heavy rentals charged by private landlords. I the States, instead of being in a better wish the Treasurer and some other Minister financial position have to wait, just as the would investigate briefly the level of rentals basic wage earner has, for a period of time in Queensland. to catch up with rising costs. That means Mr. Donald: They are not interested. they have to wait for the full 12 months before being compensated for inflationary Mr. LLOYD: They are certainly not rises in prices. interested. They subscribe to some abstract There is only one true method of compari­ policy. Irrespective of the cost of the homes son in this matter. The Treasurer, or the interest on housing loans, they are apparently, in quite satisfied. We have not satisfied if they are able to build sufficient heard any protests from him in regard to houses to meet the requirements of the Queensland's share under the taxation people. The time when housing was a reimbursement formula, yet for 1956-1957 matter for arrangement between landlord and this State received 15.6 per cent. of the total tenant has long since gone. In an enlightened community every person is entitled to a grants made from the Commonwealth home. Every person on an average wage Government to all the States as taxation should be in a position to purchase a home reimbursements whilst last financial year if he requires one, but at the present time Queensland received £29.9 million of a total it is an impossibility. of £269.9 million distributed, or 14.8 per cent., a reduction in that period of .8 per In the matter of loan and other require­ cent. of the total amount reimbursed to ments I must repeat the statement made the States by the Commonwealth. over the years that under the renewed formula for Commonwealth aid for roads This year the preliminary estimate is a Queensland has lost £1,500,000 in a period further reduction of .2 per cent. of the whole, of five years, and for that the Government to 14.6 per cent. of the total distribution. are at fault. The result has been that If the special assistance to the States of Queensland has been unable to undertake Western Australia and Tasmania is included major works of great importance and at under the heading of special assistance, the same time provide the normal services 748 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

for the people. Other States are . able to The Budget is dependent, to a gre~t extent, do so and in addition in some mstances on the employment position, and If unem­ balanc~ their budgets and even achieve a ployment is sufficienty grave we cannot budget surplus. blame any Government who may want to bolster their financial resources, that have Treasury Information Bulletin No. 23, on been aravely affected by the refusal of the page 11, gives a comparison of the bud!?et Com~onwealth Government to provide the results of the various States for the financial necessary finance, to enable a full programme year 1960-1961. The figures are- of employment to be maintained. We s~y that if it is essential to have a deficit, State Budget Estimate Budget Result then the Government should go ahead and New South Wales £22,000 surplus £140,000 deficit make a deficit Budget. I intend to elaborate (tentative) on this matter in some detail later and I Victoria .. £45,000 surplus £170,000 surplus will criticise very strongly some of the Queensland £216,000 deficit £618,000 deficit South Australia .. £312,000 surplus £1,188,000 surplus methods adopted by the present State Western Australia £760,000 deficit £1,205,000 deficit Government. During the last financial year we were The figures for Tasmania are not known at unfortunate because the unemployment num­ the moment. South Australia is the most bers rose above the figures in the depression remarkable instance, when we remeJ?ber t~at years, giving the highest per-capit.a figure it is also a party to the new taxatiOn rei.m­ of unemployment in the State smce the bursement formula and the formula covenng depression. The position is alarming and Commonwealth aid for roads. we should give it very grave consideration. The Commonwealth Government embarked Western Australia, of course, is a claimant on deflationary measures that had an impact State and no doubt its deficit will be taken on every section of the community, and at up to some extent by adva~ce~ from the the same time refused to make available Commonwealth Grants Commission. additional loan moneys for the extension of Those figures give an indication of the capital works to take up the leeway in the true position. We have been told much unemployment level. If private industry about the new formula for grants from the spends too much in the private se!:'tor, and Commonwealth Government, but in actual it is necessary to cut back that expenditure, fact the statistics reveal that other States then it should be done, but it must be realised of the Commonwealth have apparently bene­ that the only result will be unemployment. It fited to a far greater extent than Queensland. is therefore essential that during that time the By these circumstances the Treasurer has Commonwealth Government should immedi­ been forced to raise additional revenue by ately advance large sums of money to the State way of taxation levied on the pepole of where unemployment is so serious, to allow Queensland. I think it is . necessary. that I it to embark on the necessary developmental should give to the Committee an Idea of work to absorb the great number of people the increase that has taken place. Unfor­ forced into unemployment. tunately the latest figures available at the We remember what happened in the years moment are only up to 1959-1960. They 1929-1932. I know it is going back a long are issued by the Commonwealth Bureau of way but hon. members opposite do not like Census and Statistics. We find that for to hear any of the statements that have 1956-1957 Queensland's State and territory been made about it by members of the taxation collections amounted to £15,606,000, Labour Party. It is a sad and sorry history or, on a per-capita basis, a taxation of of their predecessors and I remind the Com­ £11 7s. Two years later, in 1959-1960, the mittee particularly that the Government at total collections for State and territory taxa­ that time transferred some £100,000 to Con­ tion amounted to £22,913,000 and the per­ solidated Revenue from the Loan Fund. capita figure increased to £15 6s. 6d. That From the Real Property and Trust Fund they is a tremendous increase in two years, and transferred £100,000. Amongst other things it has not stopped. In 1960-1961, further they transferred £100,000 from the Govern­ forms of increased taxation were imposed ment Savings Bank to Consolidated Revenue. by the Treasurer and the Government, and In that period the disclosed deficits totalled in the present Financial Statement legislation £6,000,000 and the undisclosed deficits were is to come before Parliament to increase the revenue from State and territory taxation tremendous. Hon. members should take a substantially. We know that no avenue by little time to draw a comparison between which revenue can be increased has been those three years and the four years of the left unexplored by the Government to enable present Government. We have seen a con­ them to get more money. Even fines from tinual budgeting for deficits attended by a prosecutions in court have doubled in the rise in unemployment. At the same time same number of years. In an attempt to the Government are making all sorts of cover up their incapacity and inability to statements about their intentions. They speak undertake a works programme to give the of their intention to encourage Comalco greatest possible satisfaction to the people, to develop Weipa and they talk of iron-ore and at the same time balance the Budget, deposits, but it is all talk; we see very little the Government have explored every avenue activity in Queensland. to increase taxation. We do not argue In contrast we see great activity in the against a deficit in the Budget at any time. southern States and in Western Australia. Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 749

The Government boast about the Common­ impact on the budgetary position of the wealth's grant of £5,000,000 to Queensland State. If it had been possible to reach an for beef roads but the Commonwealth earlier conclusion to the interminable argu­ straightway gave Western Australia a further ment that apparently went on in secrecy £l,OOO,OOO and a tremendous amount is between the State and the Commonwealth, being expended by them on the Kwinana the works would have been in operation railway line. Think of the vast sums being much earlier. A greater amount of money expended north of the 21st parallel of lati­ would have been allocated to them and this tude in Western Australia! New South would have resulted in some saving to the Wales is coming in for huge grants for State. coal-handling facilities at its ports. But We must remember, too, that 1962-1963 the Queensland Government are dithering is the financial year in which the elections again and cannot get satisfaction from the will be held. No doubt there will be no Commonwealth Government in regard to need in 1962-1963 for the State Government Queensland ports. No arrangement can be to augment this fund to the extent that made. they have augmented it in the past. No There is dead silence about the Mt. Isa doubt they expect that a greater amount railway line. In 1957 the reconstruction of will be made available by the Common­ the Mt. Isa line was first mooted. In wealth for the Mt. Isa rail project and October, 1959, the Premier wrote to the that they will also be able to embark on Prime Minister telling him that the Govern­ more irrigation projects and provide educa­ ment of Queensland were quite satisfied with tional facilities that have been neglected the arrangements whereby the Common­ during the last few years. I think we have wealth would advance to the State a loan of now reached the position where we must £20,000,000 towards the total cost of study our loan expenditure very carefully. £29,000,000. Remember, we were suffering Whereas in past years there has been at that time from the impact of expenditure universal boasting by the Government that from the Loan Fund on the Mt. Isa railway all school works were being projected and project whereas in 1957 the matter was first that there was complete satisfaction of the ventilated and it appeared to have been satis­ educational requirements of the public, a factorily concluded. We were told not to study of the accounts and of the Govern­ worry about it, that everything was going ment's performance during the past year will along smoothly-"For goodness sake don't show that that is not so on this occasion. upset the arrangements." Yet for the first Priority was used last year in relation to year of the project the Commonwealth loans for new school works, and at many Government are to make a contribution. In schools additional buildings, new classrooms, the meantime, in 1958-1959 we allocated fencing and other urgently needed improve­ £ l.9 million from the Loan Fund and not ments had to be by-passed. Because finance one penny was spent. In 1959-1960 we was not available, it was impossible to com­ allocated £1.4 million and only £700,000 was plete many classrooms, and there was a con­ spent. Last financial year £1.5 million was siderable reduction in the allocation for allocated and we still find in the fund a primary school buildings last year com­ credit balance of £1.5 million. We do not pared with the allocation in the previous argue about the expenditure of that money but financial year. Certainly we realise the we say the Government are culpable because impact that the greatly increased number they failed to reach a satisfactory conclusion of children going to State secondary schools in the matter at a time when it was vital, has had on the Government's finances. In when unemployment was so bad in Queens­ 1946 a plan was first evolved to meet this land that every available pound from any peak enrolment when school construction source-whether Consolidated Revenue, would be at its maximum. Trust and Special Fund, or Loan Fund­ should have been diverted into employment­ Mr. Armstrong: What did your Govern­ making works. ment do? Were it not for the dilatory attitude of the Mr. LLOYD: We evolved the plan. All Government there would have been an this Government did was to continue it. We earlier allocation by the Commonwealth. At planned this under the Hanlon scheme of the end of this financial year when £1.62 regionalisation of education. We knew when million is allocated from the Loan Fund to the peak would be reached and when the the Mt. Isa project fund, it is to com­ works would be needed. All the Govern­ plement the £4.5 million expected­ ment did was to place a plaque on these apparently not guaranteed-from the Com­ high schools and declare them open. There monwealth Government and to complement is no doubt in my mind, and I do not think the £1.5 million credit balance existing in that there is any doubt in the minds of the fund, making a total expenditure of the Minister for Education or the Treasurer, some £7,500,000. If the full expenditure that we have not yet satisfied all the require­ is carried out at the end of the financial ments of education. year the Queensland Government will have spent 73 per cent. of the total of £9,000,000 Mr. Pizzey: There was loan money allocated to this project, whereas the Com­ unspent. monwealth Government have allocated not more than 22t per cent. The Mt. Isa Mr. LLOYD: There was a credit of rail project has had a considerable £200,000 in the Loan Fund when the 750 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Government took office. Last year they In the loan expenditure we find that increased the credit balance from £83,000 although it was not possible to embark on to £120,000. There was still a credit balance. the full scale of works for State primary We had full employment when we were in schools, on "other buildings, works and ser­ office, but there are 15,000 people unem­ vices" the actual expenditure was £120,000 ployed in Queensland under this Govern­ over the appropriation for the year. In ment. They talk very glibly about this 1954 when the Treasurer was criticising the matter but let us look at the full require­ Financial Statement he said that the then ments of the State. In his Financial State­ Government were spending money like a mad ment the Treasurer told the Universities sailor in their endeavour to exhaust their that they would have to mark time because available appropriation. This year £120,000 it is impossible to satisfy the demand that more was spent on "other buildings, works will be made for tertiary education in the and services" than was appropriated. What next few years. He said that he would are they? Government offices around Bris­ not receive £8,243 this year from the Com­ bane that are possibly necessary, but absolute monwealth Government and that it would essentials such as school works are lagging. not be possible for the State Government This year the appropriation for State school to match the grant to the extent of £1 17s. buildings is £10,000 less than the amount for every £1 received from the Common­ expended last year. For technical colleges, wealth Government. This year there is to State high and post-primary schools the be a reduction on last year's expenditure appropriation is £120,000 less. on universities. Again, Works and Services, particularly Mr. Pizzey: Rubbish! buildings, are to be increased by another £100,000. If the construction of school Mr. LLOYD: Let us have a look at the buildings is lagging and requirements are Estimates. There is a reduction from not satisfied, why was not an extra £15,000 £1,000,000 to £800,000. allocated for this purpose to enable the State to receive from the Commonwealth the full Mr. Hiley: You left an unfunded amount of the grant this year? overdraft-- Mr. Hiley: Not loan money. Mr. LLOYD: We have had that from the Treasurer year after year. "You left us Mr. LLOYD: The Treasurer said in the with the position of having to go to the Financial Statement that the State grant Loan Council on our hands and knees"-we would be sufficient to attract all but £8,243 have had all of that before. We were able of the maximum Commonwealth grant. I to provide services for the people and full admit it is rather difficult to follow. Works employment which the Government cannot and Services have an extra £100,000 over do, and are not doing. While there are 15,000 last year when £120,000 was spent over and unemployed all these projects are being let above the appropriation, while the construc­ to contract. A contract under the Mareeba­ tion of State school and University buildings Dimbulah scheme was let toT. J. Watkins for is lagging. £79,000, when the estimate under day labour construction was no more than £72,000. Why The Department of Public Works is in a was that .contract let when it is realised that tough position this year, and is very much the actual cost of construction by day concerned about its low allocations. labour is always below the estimate made by the department in the initial stages of the con­ Mr. Pizzey: There has been virtually no struction? There is no great reduction in increase in high school enrolments for next the administration staff at Walkamin but the year. construction staff are to be reduced from 101 to 40. Two more workshops will be closed Mr. LLOYD: Are we getting over the shortly. Why take this action when the problem? I do not wish to be unduly work already is being efficiently undertaken critical but, taking some of the items in the at less cost by day labour? The Minister Loan Fund there are one or two suggestions for Public Works has embarked on a plan I should like to make to the Treasurer, that to transfer day-labour work to contract work. might be of some value. Additional grants There is a very strong rumour that 400 men were made available to the Queensland Hous­ will be put off by the Department of Public ing Commission which were necessary in Works. In many cases when contracts are view of the employment position. Increases, let for large developmental works the con­ which were meagre enough, were made avail­ tractors come from the South and other able as advances to settlers, but at the same parts of the State. When the day-labour time, the allocation for employment on capi­ method is employed on Government projects tal works maintained by local authorities is local labour is employed. Labour is not reduced. Loans and subsidies to local bodies brought from Brisbane or anywhere outside have been reduced from £6,500,000 to by the contractor. With local labour the £5,700,000 at a time when costs are high. money is kept in the district. It helps to That places the local bodies in a serious keep a district prosperous. If day labour position in regard to maintenance and capital is doing the work now, as it has been in works to be carried out by them in various the past, why interfere with it? parts of the State. Supply [17 OCTOBER) Supply 751

I should like to question in particular the precluded from getting advances from the amount granted under the Farm Water Sup­ Development Bank with which to carry out plies Assistance Fund. Last year £96,000 irrigation projects on their properties. They was allocated from Loan Fund and £165,000 are precluded from approaching the Develop­ from the Trust and Special Funds was ment Bank because finance is available to spent. This year £240,000 is to be allocated them from State sources. from the Loan Fund account to the Farm Water Supplies Assistance Fund. The Development Bank was created early in 1960, that is, two years after the legisla­ When that legislation was introduced in tion was passed, and the Treasurer and the 1958 the Development Bank had not been Government now have to decide whether they established. It was thought that that scheme can afford to expand the scheme at the would enable many of the primary producers expense of other essential works, if the of Queensland to embark on irrigation money for this developmental work can be schemes that would be of immense value not obtained from the Development Bank. They only to themselves but to Queensland by way will have to decide whether to continue to of increased productivity. I do not know subsidise the Commonwealth Government, that the figures give a really good idea of particularly when we are continually arguing the actual result of the three year's operation with them about the extent of their advances of the scheme but in 1957-1958 there were to Queensland. 7,286 irrigators in Queensland and in 1960- 1961 7,839, an increase of about 600. In Another important point is that the Federal the previous period, 1956-1957 to 1957-1958 Aid Rehabilitation Fund at the present time the increase had been 1,200 when there was has a credit balance of £723,000, despite no Farm Water Supply Assistance Fund in the fact that in the last two years expenditure operation. In 1958-1959 the figure had been from that fund was only some £10,000. reduced by 100, in the first year's operation The fund is building up. The Commonwealth of the scheme. In the second year of Government have made available £770,000 operation of the scheme, when it should have for this fund. been in full swing, there was a further reduc­ tion in the number of irrigators to 6,889. Mr. Hiley interjected. This financial year an increase is shown, so Mr. LLOYD: An allocation is made to the the figures in themselves may not be con­ fund each year, plus interest. clusive proof or an indication of the success or otherwise of the scheme. Whereas in Mr. Hiley: The Government take the whole 1957-1958 the percentage of irrigated crops of the money available. to the total crop area was 5.8 per cent., in 1960-1961 the figure was 5.6 per cent., a Mr. LLOYD: But it appears obvious that reduction of .2 per cent. very few primary producers are able to take advantage of the scheme. The Government The allocation this year from the Loan may be able to approach the Commonwealth Fund for farm water supplies assistance is Government to amend the principles of their £240,000. That is going to increase from scheme so that the money now in the Federal year to year and will be a tremendous drain Aid Rehabilitation Fund could be used for on loan funds. I want to make it clear primary development including development that I am not condemning the scheme. I undertaken under the Farm Water Supplies asked in 1958 whether a limit would be set Assistance Act. on the money to be made available for this purpose because the Minister at the time Mr. Hiley: Are you speaking of the Federal had said that the New South Wales Govern­ Roads Aid Grant? ment were embarrassed by the number of applications. "Australia in Facts and Mr. LLOYD: No, the Federal Aid Figures" No. 64 issued by the Australian Rehabilitation Fund created under Common­ News and Information Bureau, Department wealth legislation. Farmers are allowed of the Interior described Development Bank under that scheme to discount their indebted­ policy in these words, and this is most ness to private institutions. The money now important in considering whether Queensland to the credit of that fund could be used for should continue its farm water supplies essential primary development such as that assistance scheme- now undertaken under the Farm Water "The main function of the Bank will Supplies Assistance Act. be to provide finance for purposes of A matter of some importance to Central primary production and for the establish­ Queensland is the anticipated expenditure ment or development of industrial under­ next financial year of £107,500 from the Loan takings, particularly small undertakings, in Fund to cover advances towards cost of con­ cases where it considers that the provision struction, etc., of Callide-Dawson Co-o~er~­ of finance is desirable and the finance tive Abattoir. As I understand that, 1t IS would not otherwise be available on £87 500 advanced to fixed capital and £20,000 reasonable and suitable terms." adv~nced for working capital. We have had The point is that primary producers who get similar schemes in the past. There was the advances from the Agricultural Bank under one at Roma, where substantial advances the farm water supplies assistance fund are were made by the Agricultural Bank. I 752 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

understand that in the first place, in this On a comparative basis, we find that Rock­ case, the Treasurer was not very happy hampton and Gladstone process 140,000 head with the whole of the circumstances. There of cattle each year, but 200,000 head of are 600 farmers in the area who have formed cattle by-pass those two towns. With an themselves into a co-operative and the finances extension of the facilities in the two towns, of the Co-operative were not in a very an encouragement of cattle fattening in the sound position. It is doubtful whether it is Central Highlands by the increased use of really a good investment for the State and irrigated pastures, we would have something whether the State should be expected to make of which the Government could be proud, this advance for an industry in Central but we see all this money that is being Queensland which is now more the responsi­ channelled into work that is purely and bility of the Commonwealth Government, simply a compromise by the Treasurer and and has been accepted by the Commonwealth the Liberal Party, to try to make the members Government, to a great extent. I do not of the Country Party a little bit happy by know sufficient about the scheme to condemn giving them some form of extra finance. it, but I do say that in times of unemploy­ What else would it be? The Farm Water ment, such as at present, we should very Supplies Assistance Fund attracts some carefully consider exactly what money we £240,000 this year whilst the Agricultural spend on such schemes. There is a con­ Bank advanced to selectors no more than troversy in Rockhampton now. The lron. £880,000. Why should there be an advance member for Rockhampton South has stated of £107,500 to the Callide-Dawson Co-op­ that he favours private abattoirs in that city. erative Abattoir outside Biloela unless pres­ In Central Queensland there is a greater sure was brought to bear on the Liberal potential for cattle fattening by crop feeding Party by Country Party members. and irrigated pastures than anywhere in the Perhaps some of them were share­ State. On many occasions members of the holders, and if they were, good luck Government have gone to North Queensland, to them. They are entitled to be share­ to the rain forests area, and have by-passed holders and I hope the venture succeeds. this great potential in Central Queensland. At the same time, the money is there from I have a friend at Springsure who tells me the Loan Fund. Where is it going to be that he can fatten 300 head of cattle, every spent? Is it going to be spent in the interests four months, on 10,000 acres. If that can of providing full employment in the State be done at Springsure it can be done right and ensuring the fullest possible programme through the Central Highlands. of works in the construction of school facilities and buildings for University use? Mr. Duggan: Mr. Murray, the Federal Liberal member, says the State Government (Time expired.) are vacillating on the fattening of cattle up there. Mr. HERBERT (Sherwood) (12.25 p.m.): I should like to take advantage of this Mr. LLOYD: Many of the Federal mem­ opportunity to give the Committee a report bers and State members are at loggerheads on of my attendance at the Seventh Conference this matter. If we are to develop the industry of the Commonwealth Parliamentary in Central Queensland satisfactorily-and it is Association in London. I realise that it crying out for development-we will still be is not normal procedure to make a report faced with the question of absorbing the addi­ to the Assembly of attendance at a con­ tional production from that area. The hon. ference of this nature. Previous conferences member for Rockhampton South condemns have not been open to the Press. However, the construction of district abattoirs at Rock­ hampton. He would throw upon the tender this time the Commonwealth Parliamentary mercies of the monopoly meat companies Association decided to make their delibera­ the whole of the meat production, distribu­ tions open and they received a good deal of tion, and retail marketing in the town of publicity in the United Kingdom Press, so Rockhampton. We believe public abattoirs I intend to make a public report on their should be built there and we claim that if deliberations. these men were prepared to say we will make For the benefit of those who do not it a district abattoir, and let the outside agents already know it, let me say at the outset or buyers have 20 per cent. of the space for that the conference comprises at least one slaughtering their cattle we would agree it representative of each Parliament in the would lead to increased absorption of labour British Commonwealth. Each of the in the Rockhampton district. However, the Australian State Parliaments has one rep­ Government are going less than 100 miles resentative, while the Commonwealth Par­ west of Rockhampton and granting an liament has six. Three of those six come advance of £107,500 to a small co-operative. from the Government side and three from It may be a good thing. Where this trem­ the Opposition benches. endous potential exists I believe every effort should be made to encourage it. At present Over 100 parliamentarians attended the the Government are completely silent about conference and we lived together for some the development of slaughtering facilities in five weeks without mentioning politics, which Rockhampton and the cattle industry in is a rather remarkable achievement for that Central Queensland because they are hand in number of members gathered together for glove with Vestys in Rockhampton. any length of time. I am still not aware Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 753 of the political affiliations of some of the 60. Even then the organisers had a delegates with whom I spent quite a deal tremendous headache in persuading 60 of time. individualists to give way on some occasions No report of the conference would be because the accommodation was not always complete without a reference to the hos­ up to the standard that we should have liked. pitality extended by the United Kingdom In London we stayed at the Savoy. The branch. I realise that any trip overseas by standard there is higher than in any hotel a Member of Parliament is subject to in Australia, and higher than anything we suspicion by the electors that the man con­ would ever require here. The assistant cerned is spending a lot of their money on manager of the Savoy Hotel, Mr. Stafford, a very enjoyable trip. I am rather fortunate comes from Brisbane-as a matter of fact, because the expenses were borne by the his parents live in my electorate-and he United Kingdom Government so any com­ helps control its 1,300 employees. plaints would have to come from people When we toured the United Kingdom, we who were paying United Kingdom tax. How­ moved from place to place by bus. The ever, the United Kingdom Government first move was to the Farnborough air dis­ spared no effort to make sure that by the play, which is recognised throughout the time the delegates who attended the confer­ world as one of the greatest air displays ence left for home they had seen as much in any country. Unfortunately for us, the as possible of the country, how the people proverbial London fog descended on the day lived, how they worked and how their Parlia­ of our visit to the display, so we missed all ment worked-and of course that is the the high altitude manoeuvrings and were most important thing of all, particularly to restricted to seeing the ground displays and some of the delegates from the new native certain helicopter displays that could be made countries in Africa, who had very little in the fog. That one day of fog was the experience of parliamentary government. only day in seven weeks that we saw bad The newest member of the Commonwealth weather. I spent the whole time in the Parliamentary Association is Sierra Leone, United Kingdom in a summer suit-the one which only this year was received into the I have on now-without a waistcoat, without Commonwealth with full independence. a pullover, and without a raincoat. From Indeed, while the conference was under way the reports that I had heard of United King­ it was also received into the United Nations. dom weather, that was somewhat of a It was rather fitting that the fiftieth record. The fact remains that we had anniversary of the association should have exceptionally good weather during our stay. been held in London at Westminster Palace, I shall have some comments to make later the mother of all Commonwealth in the session about air pollution and Parliaments. information that I gained from the officials of the various cities that we visited. The first discussion was on whether or not the deliberations should be open to the We were taken from London to Stratford­ Press. Every .country in the Commonwealth, on-Avon to witness the playing of "Hamlet" with the exception of Ghana, believed that by the Shakespearean players, and from there it should be so. Ghana objected to the we went to Coventry. This is one of the admission of the Press on the ground that paradoxes of British life. Coventry was possibly the Press reports would not be a completely flattened by the German Air Force true indication of the proceedings. It was 20 years ago, and the centre of the city was some little time before a representative of pulverised. Today aircraft works at Coventry one of the native countries stood up and are producing jet bombers and fighters for the pointed out to Ghana that, with their present German Air Force, the body that wrecked the system of government, it did not really town such a short time ago, historically matter whether the Press were admitted speaking. because in Ghana they make quite sure that Coventry has been completely re-built on the Press report only what the Government modern lines by the Council. The shopping want them to print. At the moment the area in the centre of the city is closed to parliamentary Opposition are in prison. So wheeled traffic. The shops are on two Ghana's plea for keeping the conference levels, with pedestrian ways and garden secret did not gain any support. With the plots, and there are very large parking areas opening of the conference to the Press, there on top of the shops on the second level. was a good deal of interest in the representa­ It is an experiment in modern town planning tions made by a number of the countries that has been very successful, and Coventry taking part. is rightly proud of its new civic centre. Before I mention any of the deliberations, They are also proud of their new cathedral, I should give a brief outline of the functions which will be opened later this year. It is that were organised for the delegation. Hon. the first cathedral built in this century. Some members can imagine that, with 120 people of the money came from Queensland and together in Great Britain in the autumn, many other parts of the Commonwealth. there would be considerable problems in From Coventry we went to Blackpool to transporting them from place to place and witness the switching on of the illumina­ providing adequate accommodation. The tions. Blackpool is an example of what a delegates were divided into two parties of centre can do to make itself into a tourist 754 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply attraction when it has very few natural is a very fitting surround for a function advantages. To many people in Lancashire of that kind. It seats over 2,000 people. the air at Blackpool is refreshing, but it has The State trumpeteers and the body guard very little else. Despite this, they have of the Honourable Corps of Gentlemen at managed to provide attractions in Blackpool Arms were in attendance wearing the uni­ that draw tourists throughout the year. The forms of many years ago. It is a very Blackpool illuminations have to be seen to moving experience to see them surrounding be believed. Undoubtedly they would require the Sovereign. The Queen made her speech many hours of work by electrical contractors. to open the conference in the usual manner, From Blackpool we went to Scotland being supported by the Prime Minister of where the Scottish people really turned on Great Britain and the Chairman of the Par­ the hospitality. Rather than leave us in liamentary Association. Afterwards we were Glasgow for the week-end the Lord Provost entertained at morning tea by Her Majesty of Glasgow, a position which corresponds at Lancaster House. The conference proper roughly with our Lord Mayor, took us into got under way. There were a number of the Highlands. Incidentally, the Lord Pro­ subjects of a parliamentary nature to be vost was a woman, Mrs. J. Roberts. We had discussed. Almost everyone got on to the a week-end in the Highlands, which included subject of the European Economic Com­ a visit to the various lochs that are now munity. I realise that there is a motion connected to the Glasgo wwater supply, but on the business sheet dealing with this sub­ they are none the less beautiful for it. We ject so I am necessarily restricted in the had a couple of days in Edinburgh, with a comments I can make. Unfortunately walk down the Royal Mile from Edinburgh almost the entire conference revolved around Castle to Hollyrood Castle, and a trip to the that subject, about which I am precluded Border Country. A number of functions from speaking at length by the motion I associated with the Edinburgh Festival were have referred to. I am sure I will be still on when we visited that city. permitted to say that every delegate from every nation in the British Commonwealth From Edinburgh they took us to Northern expressed an almost identical view. They Ireland. The Northern Ireland Parliament were concerned at what the Common Market is a rather remarkable parliament in a num­ would do to their economy and to the ber of ways. Although Northern Ireland Commonwealth. The native races, particu­ is part of the United Kingdom it has a very larly the African ones, had no ties of blood distinctive political system all of its own. with the United Kingdom and if it in any It is only 40 years old but you would have way affected their trading relations they to live in Northern Ireland to understand would have to reconsider their position in its politics. I do not think the system there the Commonwealth. Naturally, with those would appeal to hon. members of the Com­ statements being made all the other points mittee. Northern Ireland has tourist attrac­ raised at the conference faded into insignifi­ tions that draw people from all over the cance. world. I was fortunate enough to be invited to Baronscourt, the seat of the Duke of Aber­ Mr. Bennett: What view did you express corn. Many hon. members will remember on that matter? his visit here last year. While we were at Mr. HERBERT: I supported the Australian Baronscourt Princess Alexandra made a visit delegation whose views were presented by and she conveyed a number of messages to Mr. Berry, its leader, and supported by me for the friends she made on her visit to Senator Sheehan from Victoria. There were Queensland in our Centenary year. Lady not any politics in this and I expressed much Moira Hamilton, the daughter of the Duke the same view as the others, that we would of Abercorn, was with her on that occasion. have to wait and see what happened, but Australia had a very important stake in the We then returned to London for the Common Market. Eventually, in one speech work of the conference, which was held to the conference, tlre Commonwealth Secre­ in the Royal Gallery at the House of tary, Mr. Duncan Sandys, said- Lords. The formal opening was made by the Queen in Westminster Hall. The one "We have made it clear that, if we are thing the British can do and do well is faced with the necessity of choosing put on a show with which the Royal family between the Commonwealth and Europe, is associated. The opening of the Parlia­ we should unquestionably choose the Com­ mentary conference by the Queen was the monwealth. If the negotiations fail and most memorable function I have ever wit­ we are unable to secure special arrange­ nessed. Earlier quite a number of people ments to protect vital Commonwealth at the conference had made somewhat dis­ interests, then Britain will not join the paraging remarks about functions of that Common Market. That is our declared nature, but they were all completely silent position and we have no intention of shift­ while the opening was taking place. Any­ ing from it." one who could sit through that opening That is a formal statement of the position without being impressed would be lack­ made by the Commonwealth Secretary to this ing in any appreciation of any sort of conference, with the full approval of his formality or ritual. Parts of Westminster Government. It was the reply given to us Hall go back over nine centuries. Most of by a man who is in a position to make a it was finished in the 14th century so it statement of that nature. Although he made Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 755 it, many countries in the Commonwealth tlrat there was a State called Queensland, are just as much concerned as Australia is let alone that there were people in it. We at what the negotiations will bring to the could get tremendous benefit from a visit Commonwealth. We have to consider the of some of those persons. Students from fact that this is a black Commonwealth, those countries now come here for certain that the majority of delegates to the confer­ courses. Many of those youngsters are tak­ ence were coloured, and that a number of ing courses in science and other subjects, but white delegates to the conference were repre­ it will be many years before they are in a senting countries with a majority of native position to exercise much influence in the people. affairs of their own countries. I think it would be a good idea if we as a State For instance, the Duke of Montrose was invited members of Parliament of those there as a member of the Rhodesian Parlia­ countries to visit us. Tasmania took such ment. He was officially representing them action some years ago, If those persons did but, of course, the Europeans in Rhodesia visit Australia, their visit should not be are very much outnumbered by the native restricted to Canberra, Sydney and Mel­ peoples who in time to come will probably bourne. They would in those circumstances have representatives fully indigenous to the area. leave Australia witlr a memory only of the big cities. They should be shown how things Many of the Parliaments represented are done in this tropical State and how we at the C.P.A. Conference in Australia in live. The result would be an improvement in 1959 by white representatives were repre­ our mutual relations with South-East Asia. sented by their own people at this con­ ference, which is a good thing because the The Commonwealth Parliamentary Asso­ day of colonialism is well and truly over, ciation in other areas has its area confer­ and, to have the ideas of these people pre­ ences, as we do in Australia among the sented by their own representatives was an various States. I think we could extend experience that alone made the trip worth­ those area conferences to include representa­ while. tion from the countries of South-East Asia. However, that is a matter for consideration I had many informal discussions at the by the Commonwealth Parliamentary Associa­ various places we visited, at which views tion rather than this Committee. were expressed that one could not get from books and that one would probably not Queensland could independently initiate get them to express in a public place. These moves to bring some of these people to people have a tremendous affection for the Queensland so that they could learn of our Mother Country despite the fact that a way of life. We too can learn much from their number of them have spent periods in British Parliamentary procedures. I had the pleasure gaols. Quite a few of the delegates, in their of visiting the Calcutta Houses of Parliament, own autobiographies admitted to having the Legislative Council and Legislative spent four, five or six years in a British Assembly of West Bengal. Their gaol for their political activities. Parliamentary institutions have names simi­ lar to tlrose of our institutions, although Whilst at the conference I took the oppor­ the forms of government are slightly tunity at my own expense of visiting a different. I was very impressed by their number of other countries and I should like adaptation of modern machinery to their to make some special reference to countries deliberative procedures, one of the most within the British Commonwealth in South­ important instances being in the voting on East Asia, because I feel it is tremendously divisions. Their system would appeal to important to bring home one or two facts some hon. members who do not like walking about them. The first is that they know very far. Instead of filing through the virtually nothing about Australia. Those lobbies into the Chamber, the members there who do, or who have been here have been have push-buttons on their desks. If they to Sydney and Melbourne and that is about want to vote "Yes", they push one button, the limit of their knowledge. Within very to vote "No" another, and still another if easy reach of this country are the Common­ they wish to abstain from voting. Behind wealth Parliaments in Singapore, Malaya, the Speaker's table is a huge screen with the Sarawak, Brunei, North Borneo, India, desks of members marked on it. When the Pakistan, Ceylon, and the Legislative Council member pushes a button, his vote is shown in Hong Kong. All those institutions have on the screen. Photographic machinery has members who in many instances know been erected behind the screen, and the voting notlring about Australia other than the fact of members and the result of the division is that somehow or other we keep coloured recorded on a photographic plate. I have a people beyond our borders and will have copy here if any hon. member would like nothing to do with them. As those members to see it. The clock is also photographed, are responsible for the legislation of their so that the plate shows the time and date countries, I suggest to the Treasurer and of the division. The Clerk of the West Bengal Cabinet that we consider the possibility of Assembly told me the method of voting had inviting some of them to come to Queensland. saved 15 sitting days a year. It is a much At the moment they have a wrong impression bigger Assembly than the Queensland of Australia. I spoke to a number of them Legislative Assembly. The division under and they were quite surprised to discover their system is over in a minute. 756 Supply [ASSEMBLY) Supply

Mr. .Bennett: How would the votes be here again there are problems, because there counted if there was a breakdown in the are two main languages, Mandarin and electricity supply? Cantonese, and several variations of them in dialects-and, of course, the native Malay. Mr. HERBERT: The position would be Any one of the four languages may be the same as the position here if electric used in the House at any time. The majority power failed and we had no lights. This of the Singapore people speak three langu­ interesting development would appeal to a ages, but not four, so they have to have number of hon. members. It is possible a system of interpreters who relay the to so organise the machinery that votes can speeches back to members through a micro­ be cast without any record being taken of phone system. English is the main language the way in which individual members have of the front benches, and both sides use voted. The screen then shows only the English extensively, but quite a number of number of Ayes, Noes and Abstensions. backbenchers, depending on their derivation, That is used whenever there is a vote before use the other languages. the House that would result in any particular advantage to members. If they are taking Mr. Hiley: How do they record "Hansard"? a vote on parliamentary salaries they close Mr. HERBERT: They have "Hansard" in off the sections that show how members two sections. They have one side in English, vote. All they show is the final result. The and from memory, I think the other side is Clerk told me that the members were particu­ in Malay. They have the two sides of "Han­ larly cunning about how they used the button sard," in the two different languages. The so that even the member next to them would Speaker, Sir George Oehllers, is a Eurasian not be aware how they voted. I do not think by extraction, and he is faced with a problem that would be tolerated by our constituents. I do not think they would like us to vote because he cannot speak Chinese. If he with the result of, X for, and, Y against, gets a couple of somewhat garrulous on a particular motion, but it appeals strongly members, like one or two we have here, to the Indians and they use the system quite letting fly in Chinese, he does not know-- a bit. It might be interesting on some of Mr. Bennett: I should like to talk to you the debates we have in the Chamber if we in Chinese. had that system just to see how the numbers would tally compared with an open show Mr. HERBERT: The hon. member is just of hands. about as intelligible when speaking in English. In the Bengal House their Chamber is He has the problem of telling whether or not much bigger than our own, and they not the member is keeping within the bounds have twice as many members, but they still of Parliamentary dignity or whether some of manage to have a desk for each. I think the comments he is making are insulting. It is we could consider that here. This is the a tremendous problem for him to keep order poorest furnished of all the Houses of in those circumstances because the inter­ Parliament that I visited in the Com­ preters are some way behind the delivery of monwealth and outside the Commonwealth. the speech. But to make absolutely certain­ The House of Commons is certainly no and this is something that not very many palace for accommodation. It was designed of our hon. members would appreciate­ for 400 and has a membership of 600, but as well as "Hansard" they have a tape at least the seats were a little comfortable, recording of the entire proceedings of the although they are much the same pattern House, which is filed away and at any time as our own. It is interesting to note that you can have the tape recording of any the only seats with arm rests on them are period pulled out of the vaults and played the ones for the Bishops in the House of back. If some hon. members could hear Lords, and one of the Clerk Assistants told their own speeches before "Hansard" had had me that centuries ago the Bishops used to be a chance to correct them they would get in a semi-inebriated condition whenever they some great shocks. In a multi-racial com­ attended and they had to have arms on munity like that, it is very necessary because them to keep them in their seats. He also if "Hansard" is printed in two languages and told me that he was a Presbyterian so he the actual speech has been delivered in could say that quite safely. The plain truth another language, the member requires the is that our own seats would be the worst protection of the actual verbatim report to be seen anywhere in any of the Parlia­ of what he said in his own language so that, ments in the British Commonwealth. Nearly if there is any change in meaning, as there all have desks and those faced with the very often is, particularly with English problems of space use hinged desks that idioms, he can still prove just exactly what a member can pull into position when he he did say by reference to the tape recording. is sitting there. It drops back into position when he leaves his seat. I think that our Mr. Wallace. Did you hear the tape played Speaker could investigate the introduction back? of a similar system in this Chamber. Mr. HERBERT: Yes. If any hon. member wants to be in a really difficult House he should try the Mr. Wallace: How did it come back? Singapore Parliament which is multi-racial, Mr. HERBERT: Perfe,ctly. and uses four official languages. There is English, Tamil from India, Chinese-and Mr. Wallace: Any interjections? Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 757

Mr. HERBERT: There was none in the enough to visit the border areas between little bit I heard but I should imagine parlia­ the new territories that have been ceded mentarians under the British system would to Britain for 99 years and Communist be much the same throughout the world; China. I met some of the commanders they could not resist interjecting during one of the Police Force, who actually have the another's speeches. It is certainly allowed job of keeping refugees out of Hong Kong, there. and the Gurkha soldiers, who have the job Another interesting departure in Singapore of enforcing the police commands. I also is that Mr. Speaker is appointed from out­ had the opportunity of speaking to a great side the House. He is not a member. Sir many Chinese through the interpreter who George Oehllers was actually written into was provided by courtesy of the Legislative the Singapore Constitution as Speaker when Council. It is obvious that the position in they gained their independence a couple of Hong Kong at the moment is not so much years ago and he has been reappointed by brought about by politics as by living con­ subsequent Governments. Although they ditions. The people from China who are have only a majority of one at the moment, attempting to flee to Hong Kong in great the Speaker is the only man who is not numbers are no more interested in the greatly concerned about it because, though political situation than a great number of the Government can sack him, there are very our own people are interested in the politi­ few men in Singapore who are capable of cal situation here. The thing that attracts taking on the job and handling it in the way them to Hong Kong is not that it is a free that it has to be handled in a multi-racial country or that it is under British rule; community of that type. Though a future rather is it that the living conditions there 9'?vernment could appoint anyone they liked, are good. In the words of my Chinese It 1s extremely probable that he will continue driver, "As long as Hong Kong can pro­ to preside over the Singapore House. vide its people with good food and good accommodation, refugees will still come." He may be their first and last Speaker However, if at any time Communist China because at the moment discussions are taking can provide better food or better clothing, P!ace on the possible union of Malaya, then the flow might very well be the other Smgapore and North Borneo and I think way. Undoubtedly a number of intellectual some of it is aimed at overcoming the pos­ Chinese are fleeing from Communist China sibility of Singapore's going Communist. At for political reasons; but the vast majority the moment it is in a very difficult position of the peasants who comprise a good pro­ politkall,y. The Government have been portion of the refugees apparently have no gradually losing their majority and I think political reason for attempting to get into the idea is to get Singapore into Malaysia Hong Kong. before the Communists take over control of the city. Once Malaya comes in with Sincra­ Living conditions in Hong Kong at the pore the "Corn's" chances ire gone beca~se moment are very good, on Eastern stan­ the Communist cause in Malaya has been dards. Singapore and Malaya have the completely discredited since the civil war, highest standards in the East, and Hong and the Malay people, particularly those of Kong is not very far behind them, in spite Mohammedan extraction, would have no of the poverty in the new settlement areas truck with Communism, certainly not on the where they have the problem of the people level that certain of the Chinese and other who have come in from Communist China mixed races in Singapore seem prepared to under-nourished and under-fed, with no tolerate. possessions, and with very little training in any particular calling . . The pc?ple from. North Borneo are par­ tJcularly mterested m having some sort of There is one difference that one notices fusion of Malaysia because the two countries between places such as Singapore and Hong in Borneo are in an extremely backward Kong, with their relatively high standards, position particularly since the war when their and Calcutta. It is the entirely different oil wells, their only real natural assets, were standards adopted by the coolies. In Hong completely destroyed. It has taken a Kong and Singapore the ricksha has already tremendous amount of rebuilding and they been outlawed. At best, it is a very primitive feel that _by federating with Malaya they will form of transport, and a particularly cruel not only Improve their own position but might one on the individual who does the pulling. also forestall any claims in the future that In Calcutta, not only have they rickshas I!ldOJ?esia may have on their territory, con­ but the majority of the beasts of burden sJ?e~mg that most of the territory is already pulling the carts are humans. One can see wJthm the Indonesian borders. tremendous carts being trundled through the !he Hong _Kong has a Legis­ streets of Calcutta by three or four coolies P~rliament in very high temperatures and very high lative CouncJ! that IS fully nominee. It has a fairly easy job, as the members meet humidity. Under those working conditions only <_JCCasionally for very short periods to it is no wonder that the average age of put Bills through, but they are still a Par­ death there is in the thirties. In Calcutta liament in the strict sense of the word. at night-time-many of us saw this during the war and it is still perpetuated-in the On one of the short trips that one can streets one sees tens of thousands of people make from Hong Kong, I was fortunate sleeping on the footpaths. They have no 758 Supply [ASSEMBLY) Supply possessions and nowhere else to go. One were made to take pennies for six-minute does not see that in Hong Kong or Singa­ periods, problems would be encountered that pore. Conditions in Calcutta are very much do not arise with the use of the smaller as they were in the war years. Possibly coins in the United States. When a com­ the town is even a little bit more dilapidated parison is made with our penny and the than it was in those days. American dime it will be realised ~hat you would nee,d a sugar-bag underneath the There are some random comments that I meter to hold the coins. should like to make in the time remaining, points ~hat I have picked up in various Wherever I went outside of Australia I parts of the world and which may be of was struck by the fact that if I ever called interest to hon. members. The first one for a drink that required a drinking-straw relates to Honolulu. Honolulu is like a the straw was always supplied inside a mammoth Surfers Paradise many times over. hygienic wrapping. Throughout America, The one thing that was impressed on my Great Britain and on the Continent, if you mind is that there is very little point in ask for a fruit drink or milk drink, they our attempting to attract American tourists bring you your drink and put down two or to Queensland's South Coast when they have three straws in wrapping. There is no a place like Honolulu so much closer to possibility of contamination of the straw, home, which has very muoh the same to offer. the way we see it in many of the milk The beaches there are not near as good as bars here. Even in the more developed the beaches on the South Coast. As a matter countries they take no risk of any kind of of fact, the sand has to be imported to the contamination of the straw. Of course, famous Waikiki beach every morning-it gets it is extremely necessary in the eastern washed away during the night. The hotel­ countries where disease is such a problem. owners are shrewd enough to know that if Everywhere outside Australia that system of they keep on pouring the sand in people wrapping straws seems to be universally will think it is a natural beauty. But most practised. of the facilities available on Queensland's What really impressed me in America were South Coast are available many times over the road-building programmes of the major in Honolulu-at a price. The prices are cities. I travelled in on the free-way from very much higher but to be weighed against San Francisco airport to San Francisco by that is the higher cost of transport from taxi. When it reached 75 miles an hour America to Australia. Therefore I think I suggested to the driver that perhaps we that our tourist advertising should be directed were travelling a little fast for a boy to the Barrier Reef rather than the South from the bush like me. I said that I should Coast. Americans on the South Coast would prefer he slowed down and that if I was not feel that they were getting anything going to travel at 75 miles an hour I liked novel, but the Barrier Reef is a different to have some say in the driving. He told story. me that if he slowed down he would have Honolulu can teach us a lot about tourist to get out of that lane because he would attractions. Nowhere in Honolulu will you be fined for travelling in it at less than 65 see advertising hoardings. They are com­ miles an hour. I was not sure whether pletely banned. As I made various scenic he was telling me the truth so I checked it trips at no stage did I see hoardings exhort­ later and it was quite true. In the second ing me to drink somebody's drink or to use fastest lane they travel at 65 miles an hour a certain gasoline. The natural beauty of and risk a fine for travelling slower. I do t~e island is unimpaired. It is certainly not care who it is, once one gets over 65 different from what we see on the main miles an hour in those ,converted aircraft coastal road to Southport. Advertising carriers that they call cars in America one is hoardings meet the eye at every corner. The taking considerable risk and it is no wonder tourist is welcomed to Southport with the that they have a fairly high accident rate. sight of a car-wrecking yard at the side of It is also no wonder that it is almost the road. At Honolulu they make sure that impossible to insure a car against damage. nothing like that mars the tourist potential I encountered exactly the same thing going of the island. They realise that their from Idlewild Airport to the centre of New economy is based on the tourist trade. They York, another 12-lane highway carrying the are very careful to preserve anything that Long Island traffic. The inside lane on looks like a national monument or that may that road has no speed limit and they were be an attraction to visitors. travelling at tremendous speed. I think our They have parking meters in Honolulu system of keeping speed down to 60 miles similar to what we have here. I realise the an hour even on the open road is a more practice could not apply until we changed sensible one and even if we do develop to decimal currency but they charge 10 roads of the type they have, it would still cents for an hour's parking and for 1 cent. be very wise. I went thro>Jgh one clover-leaf a car can be parked for six minutes. That with five levels of r'Jadway without one is a very desirable spread of time when it is intersection at which traffic had to cross; realised that many people put 6d. in a they go under and over. meter to park only a few minutes. An All that work is financed by a tax on hon. member opposite suggests 1d. That gasolene. I think it is up to 17 cents. in would be too large a coin to use. If machines California but strangely enough, unlike in Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 759 this country where the motorist complains those two cities, as the Australian tempera­ about it, they are very proud of their roads ment is hardly suited to their conditions. and the work that has been done in using Rome is notorious for the way in which its the tax on gasolene. drivers behave, their blowing of horns and complete disregard for Police instructions. Their method of changing from one lane to another is exactly the same as in this A facet of overseas development in which country. One can change over provided the I was very interested was the high-school clearance is there to get over into the next system. Quite definitely we are extremely lane. Naturally, if one cuts across someone lucky to have our system, that is, the system else he is in trouble but, in order to slow throughout Australia, not necessarily only down one must cross lanes. Queensland and not necessarily the system developed only in the last few years. Our They have a system on one or two of high-school system goes back many years. their freeways whereby of six lanes five are State control has led to uniformity, which used coming in in the morning and one means that, if a person whose youngsters are lane going out and they reverse it at night­ being educated in Brisbane is transferred to time and, instead of having the six lanes the country, he can be sure that they will with a dividing strip down the middle, in almost certainly obtain the same sort of each lane, between the traffic, they have, set in the ground underneath, spikes that education at the same level. A change of can be brought to the surface by operating address in Australia does not cause concern a button at a control point. The lanes can to parents about the education of their thus be divided into any number going one youngsters. way and the balance the other. Coronation In both America and the United Kingdom Drive is a place where we might possibly there are schools far better than the schools experiment with this. We could have four in Australia, but there are also schoo~ lanes, three coming in in the morning and infinitely worse than any we would tolerate. three going out in the afternoon if we could I saw schools in New York that we would make a proper division between the third dearly like to have here; I also saw schools and fourth lane to make sure that traffic in certain parts of the same city that we kept in the right lane to its destination. would not consider at any price. The educa­ tional system built up over generations in Mr. Houston interjected. Australia is to my mind the best. Mr. HERBERT: That is quite normal Many of the problems in most countries practice now, in the main, on American arise because education is developed on a highways, and it seems to work. I have a county basis. The standard of education suspicion that we will have to experiment available to youngsters is governed very with many of the things that work in largely by the relative wealth of the county. America because they may not necessarily Even in suburbs variations can be seen. A work here. Since this trip, I have come wealthy suburb may have a very good school, very much to the opinion that traffic prob­ while the very poor suburb next door will lems are bound up with national character. have a poor school. The American has to get somewhere in a That does not happen in Australia. We terrific hurry and he will build tremendous do not measure the facilities for the educa­ highways to get there. Even if he is not tion of our youngsters by the wealth of the going far he likes to get there quickly. suburb in which they live. In Great Britain they have slow-traffic Mr. Bromley: Did you see class conscious­ roadways that wriggle in and out of towns ness over there? with complete respect for freehold property. They never think of acquiring land anywhere Mr. HERBERT: Not so much class con­ as is being exhibited in Brisbane at the sciousness, but recognition of class to an moment. They will go right round a small extent that would be regarded by us as a cottage rather than knock it over. On these problem. We are extremely fortunate in roads, c.rowded as they are, one would expect that respect. In the United Kingdom most ~he acc1~en.t rate to be much higher, but it people seem quite happy about the fact that Is not; It IS lower than it is in the United they are in the type of environment in which States: Possibly because of the narrow roads they prefer to live, and I would not presume, one tends to be more careful and one has after a brief visit, to sit in judgment on the not the chance of getting to the speeds they matter. The old class barriers are gone. reach elsewhere. As I say, they are very Death duties and such things have taken care crowded and one cannot travel at 65 to 75 of what were once the wealthy families of miles an hour as one can on a freeway. Great Britain. A tremendous levelling off They ~ave a couple of motorways in England has been effected, compared with the posi­ on .which they have already a much higher tion perhaps 20 years ago. There is no accident rate than they experienced before. doubt our classless society in Australia is Of course, they were freeways built to clear a vast improvement on the types of society the traffic quickly. elsewhere in the world. Everyone has heard of the Continental That brings me to my last point. My drivers in Pairs and Rome. All I can say visits to the countries I saw during the war is that I should not like to get out of a and the blanks I filled in on this trip have bus and drive my own vehicle in either of brought me to ·the quite definite conclusion 760 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply not only that Australia is the best country Mr. BENNETT: I am not saying that in which to Jive but also to the fact that Parliament should reduce wages. I am saying the people are the least appreciative of how a sorry situation has arisen whereby we can­ well off they are. That arises solely from not afford to pay the work force available in our insularity. Very few Australians have the State. The interjector implied that we had the privilege of seeing other nations, what should have to reduce certain people's wages. other people have to put up with, the condi­ If the Treasurer remains in office, and the tions under which they are forced to live. present Government remain in power the time If it was possible to take large groups of may come when unemployment will be so Australians to sections of Asia and parts of bad in the State that they will have to reduce Europe, in the same way as a European wages to make the funds go further. national can travel within the confines of Europe, they might appreciate more the bene­ Mr. Knox: How many jobs have you got? fits Australia has to bestow. Although I Mr. Dewar: Somebody wanted to know do not claim to have a working knowledge how many jobs you have. of every country in the world, I have seen enough to convince me that Australia is at Mr. BENNETT: I carry out my parlia­ the very top of the list for average condi­ mentary job with much more diligence, sin­ tions for the average working man. cerity and application than the hon. member for Chermside who runs around the country­ Mr. BENNETT (South Brisbane) (2.34 side and spends a great deal of his time on p.m.): I wholeheartedly support the amend­ the South Coast. Very often he is inattentive ment moved by the Leader of the Opposition, to his electorate. If I had his sorry record which in effect is a censure motion or a concerning parliamentary duties I would be motion of no confidence in the Government. ashamed. I am proud of the work I have The Leader of the Opposition has ably done as a parliamentary and public repre­ expounded in detail the cogent and logical sentative for many more years than the hon. reasons why every conscientious hon. member member for Chermside. of this Committee should suport the amend­ ment. This Government and the Treasurer Mr. Dewar: Tell us who the hon. member have a sorry record in finance. In spite of for Chermside is. some of the "precarious" figures quoted here from time to time unemployment is greater Mr. BENNETI: The hon. member for now than since the depression. There are Wave!!. ways and means of evading the true figures Mr. Herbert: You have not been here long and telling men that they cannot get unem­ enough to know the various members. ployment benefits. When they are not getting unemployment benefits they are regarded as Mr. BENNETT: Quite frankly, the hon. being in employment, although they may be member for Wavell is so often absent from starving and in a worse condition than those Parliament that it is unusual for him to be receiving unemployment and sickness benefits. here to make an interjection. I was not able Over recent years the figures quoted have to place which electorate he represented. not presented a true picture of the workless people in the State. I assure the Chamber The CHAffiMAN: Order! that in my long years of public life, the last Mr. BENNETT: No Government in the six to eight months have been more difficult last quarter of a century have so severely cur­ than any other period for finding employment tailed the subsidies payable to local govern­ for deserving men willing and able to work ments because of the economy of the State. who are prepared to travel anywhere and That has been responsible for the sacking of take any job in the State. I stress that this many thousands of men throughout the has been going on for not just a matter of State. The Government have failed, or weeks, but months, and conditions have never refused, to shoulder their responsibilities on been worse. local government subsidies. I do not know There is only one thing that can be said to whether the paucity of their funds is due to be satisfactory in the Budget, and that is its their party political approaches to the n

Mr. BENNETT: That interjection is com­ revenue has been written down by the pletely untrue. Every subsidy that has been Treasurer. So I wonder whether this Govern­ offered to a Labour administration has been ment actually are intent upon liquor reform used up to the fullest extent and that or whether they are merely anxious to Labour administration has been searching for obtain liquor and betting revenue. It will more subsidies. As a matter of fact, in be a sorry thing for Queensland if the the Labour administration during the years Government throw overboard the principle 1952-1955, in which I happened to be the formerly espoused by the Treasurer and other Vice-Mayor, we used all the subsidies. In leading members of Cabinet in order to those years we had a Labour State Govern­ obtain revenue to carry on the government ment, who gave us generous subsidies, and of the State, revenue that their colleagues we were able to use them to the fullest. in the Federal Parliament have denied to Never was water and sewerage reticulation them. They have embarked upon sectional and never was v.ater and sewerage capitalisa­ legislation, and they are irritating various tion work produced or proceeded with with interests in the community. They have not such vigour and ambition as during those satisfied the conscience of those who are three years. opposed to liquor reform or changes in the law relating to betting, nor have they catered In spite of the fact that the Government for the welfare of those who are engaged have decided to reduce and curtail the in those enterprises. They are not legislating subsidies severely, they have not made any upon principle; they are merely legislating corresponding offset in the demands made with they eyes on revenue. on local authorities. They are still taxing them for road transport and imposing the I wish to refer briefly to the speech of other duties payable by the local authorities the hon. member for Sherwood, who has just for the right and privilege to run on their resumed his seat. He has been wining and own highways and roadways. Indeed, instead dining at the expense of the British taxpayers of reducing proportionately the charges and in the Savoy Hotel in London, which he duties and registration fees involved, they claims is the most expensive hotel in the have increased them, and this year the Bris­ world. I refer particularly to the section bane City Council, with all other local of his speech in which it seemed to me that authorities in Queensland, will have to pay he expressed great admiration for the more to the Government by way of road Government of Singapore, its constitution, registration, taxation, or subsidies for and its method of carrying out its parlia­ ambulances, fire brigade precepts and the mentary duties. I do not know why he like. In the five successive Budgets since entertains that admiration for the Govern­ this Government took office they have ment of Singapore. Perhaps it may be demanded from the Brisbane City Council because the governing party of Singapore is a considerable increase in fire brigade pre­ the People's Action Party, which believes cepts and other charges payable to the firmly in the integration of Singapore in the Government by the local authorities and Federation of Malaya. The party is uncom­ having increased those charges from time t~ promisingly Socialist and has within its ranks time, they have the audacity now to virtually extreme Leftist elements. It has 43 seats in wipe out the subsidies payable. the Legislative Council, and it formed the first Government of the independent State Mr. Houghton: Local government does not of Singapore after it became a self-governing pay a subsidy to the ambulance. State in 1959. I do not know whether that Mr. BENNETI: They assist the ambul­ is why he has admiration for the Government ance. They certainly pay their precepts for of Singapore or whether it is because of the the fire brigades. I do not intend to go technique of that Government. There are into details of the other charges payable by 51 representatives in the Parliament, and, the council for the use of utilities put there as I said, the People's Action Party has by the council or local authority itself. 43 seats with a vote of 281,891. They obtained 68 per cent. of the votes of the This Government are so frustrated in their people and 84 per cent. of the seats. I fun.ds that they have decided to improve should say that their efforts in gerrymander­ therr revenue not by way of any high ing were excelled only by the Nicklin-Morris principle but purely from a Shylock attitude Government, and perhaps that is one of the and they have decided to take from the reasons why the hon. member for Sherwood people of Queensland, according to their has so much admiration for them. Budget figures, some £700,000, which will amount in actual fact to some £1,000,000, Mr. Windsor: He said we had a 50/50 by increasing the people's betting capacity chance here, so there is no gerrymandering. and liquor intake. No doubt it is not particu­ Mr. BENNETI: The next time you stand, larly apposite to this part of the debate; you will have Schumacher's chance. nevertheless I make passing brief reference to the liquor and betting reforms provided The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. mem­ for in the Budget. Although it is indicated ber must address the Chair. that that will bring in some £700,000 in mcreased revenue, it will end up being at Mr. BENNETI: I wish now to make some least £1,000,000 because obviously that observations relating to certain aspects of 762 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

legal arrangements. But before doing so, literature. He was going to tell us through­ as we are now approaching not only the out the course of his speech where he end of the calendar year but also the got it, but he concluded without doing so. end of the legal year, I should like to take Now he suggests he obtained it from some this opportunity of expressing on behalf of school children. all decent members of Parliament and practising members of the legal fraternity Mr. Hughes: You can obtain it from any our gratitude to one of Queensland's senior bookstore. judges, Mr. Justice Matthews, on the eve Mr. BENNETT: The hon. member men­ of his retirement. Throughout the many tioned only a bookstore in Annerley. I do years that he has presided on the Supreme not know whether he got them there or Court bench, he has been a man of integrity not. The hon. member might be prepared and has done much for the welfare of the to tell us where he got them because in State. He has always applied himself to his view of the remarks and observations he judicial duties with sincerity and honesty, made his Government may be prepared to and certainly with a great degree of mercy. deal with the offenders under Section 228 As an hon. member opposite interjects, he of the Queensland Criminal Code. It is is a very good man. The State owes much all very well to speak in Parliament about to men of his calibre. I would hope that these matters but in dealing with items of he enjoys a long and happy retirement. I that nature actions always speak louder than believe that all members of Parliament who words. approach their duties with honesty and sincerity would wish it to be placed on Mr. Hewitt: Like the cafe you mentioned record that this Parliament appreciates the this morning. efforts he has made, rising as he did in his early life from a blacksmith's striker, with Mr. BENNETT: The cafe I referred to much hard endeavour and a lot of personal this morning is well known to Government privation, to take one of the top legal posi­ members because without any suggestion tions in the State. or hint from me a Government member said to me in the lobbies outside, "Such-and­ Mr. Ramsden interjected. such a cafe in Queen Street?" I said, "Yes." Therefore Government members know all Mr. BENNETT: If I ever had to sit in about it. I do not need to mention the judgment on the hon. member for Merthyr name. The hon. member knows all about I assure him I would deal with him merci­ it too. I do not wish to be sidetracked fully and also very justly. on this issue and at this particular stage, The hon. member for Kurilpa made a with the audience in the gallery, I do not very long speech about obscene publica­ wish to say anything about the particular tions. In effect he claimed that because cafe. Reverting to Section 228 of the of the conflict of Federal and State laws Queensland Criminal Code, it says- it was difficult, in fact impossible or "Any person who knowingly, and with­ impracticable, to deal with any person who out lawful justification or excuse- published such literature or offered it for (1) Publicly sells or exposes for sale sale from a bookstore. He claimed in any obscene book or other obscene effect that if this pornographic literature printed or written matter, or any was introduced from outside the country obscene picture, photograph, drawing, that there was little the Literature Board or model, or any other object tending of Review could do to stop its publication to corrupt morals; or and distribution. I share the hon. member's distaste for such obscene literature. Of (2) Exposes to view in any place to course, until he delivered his speech we on which the public are permitted to have this side did not know such literature existed, access, whether on payment of a charge because we never go looking for it. How­ for admission or not, any obscene pic­ ever, I agree that if it got into the hands ture, photograph, drawing, or model, of some people it could have an adverse or any other object tending to corrupt effect on their mental development, but morals; or at the same time any person with a healthy (3) Publicly exhibits any indecent mind and love of good literature would have show or performance, whether on pay­ no desire to read such obscene literature, ment of a charge for admission to see whether it were placed in his hands or not. the show or performance or not; is guilty of a misdemeanour, and is liable Mr. Hughes: School children are presently to imprisonment with hard labour for reading it, and I have evidence of that. two years." Mr. BENNEIT: Most certainly I feel Therefore, according to the Criminal Code, quite confident that no school in the elec­ it is a rather serious offence, punishable by torate which I have the honour to represent imprisonment for a period of two years and would have children within its ranks who I challenge the Government, seeing that they would read the type of literature brought conscientiously supported the claims made by into the Chamber by the hon. member one Government member who must know for Kurilpa. I should be interested to where he got the books and who is selling know from what school he obtained that them, to take action under Section 228 of the Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 763

Code. Furthermore, it is not a defence to say different Act altogether. The Criminal Code that they are permitted by any other State in has been in existence in Queensland since the Commonwealth. it was drafted by Sir Samuel Griffith in the early part of the century, and the section The te~t of obscenity is not whether it has to which I have drawn attention has existed been allowed by a Federal authority or a during all those years. The Literature Board State Literature Board of Review. Under that of Review is a modern creation in our section of our Code the test of obscenity is community and operates in accordance with whether the tendency of the matter charged the provisions of the Act that created the as obscenity is to deprave or corrupt the Board. Its powers are limited according to minds of those who are subjected to it. As the provisions of the Act. Quite frankly, the literature has influenced Government although it serves a good purpose in many members whose minds are more open to ways, its attack is negative. I suppose it immoral influence than those of members of is entitled in some instances to quash the the Opposition, I suggest they take action publication of an objectionable or suspicious under the Queensland Criminal Code and do book, when the authorities do not know not throw furphies into the ring by claiming who is responsible for the introduction of that there is no legislation to prevent the the book or its publication. I have always circulation of this type of literature. believed in direct action, and, when the author or the person disseminating the book Mr. Ramsden: We accept your statement in the community is known, why not take as a humorous one so I let it pass. action under the Criminal Code? If the desire is to get rid of it, positive action Mr. BENNETT: In view of the remarks should be taken. that have been made, if the Government do, in fact, sincerely believe that this is becoming Mr. Hughes: Would you agree that a book a major problem and that evidence of it is that may not be obscene to an adult, mature becoming more prevalent in the community, mind most certainly could be harmful to it is a wonder they did not take the oppor­ an adolescent, yet we have only one law tunity to increase the penalty under this to deal with the two sections of the section, that has stood the same for many community? years, when they were recently increasing Mr. BENNETI: Quite frankly I do not various penalties under the Code. believe there should be one moral code Mr. Hughes: Would you ban these books? for adults and another for children. Mr. BENNETT: I certainly would not Mr. Hughes: They are subject to sug­ tolerate them and if I had the evidence the gestion. hon. member for Kurilpa has I would take Mr. BENNETI: Some books may be too steps through the Minister for Justice who mature for children, but they would be the is a member of the hon. member's party, to type of book that the average childish mind take suitable action under that section. would not want to read. I cannot conceive So far as moral principles are concerned of two codes of morals, one for adults and I agree with many other hon. members on another for children. A thing is either this side of the Chamber who say that the morally right or morally wrong. If it is standard of literature that one's children read morally wrong for a child, it is morally depends upon the atmosphere provided for wrong for me also. them in their own homes. If they have a There is one aspect of the practice of clean, healthy and Christian atmosphere in criminal law in Queensland that is crying their homes they will not be tempted by the out for correction-poor prisoner's defence. type of book read by the hon. member for The fact that an accused person has not the Kurilpa and other hon. members opposite. money to pay for his own defence is no reason why he should not be entitled to Mr. Ewan: Once the Customs Department the self-same satisfaction received by other has passed a book of this description, would persons charged with a criminal offence. To the Literature Board of Review have power some extent he is given certain privileges to interfere with it? or rights. The Government provide a Public Defender, and the Public Defender and Mr. BENNETT: Of course they would. junior counsel, all of whom are young The Queensland Code makes no qualification barristers and well qualified, play a very whatever. The section is quite clear and if, worthwhile part in defending accused in the in the opinion of the Court it is an obscene criminal courts under the poor prisoner's publication a person who is claimed to be defence scheme. The accused at times, as a selling it or bringing it before the notice of result of their efforts, is acquitted. At times he the public, can be prosecuted. is convicted, but there are occasions when Mr. Hughes: That is not the view held the barristers in the Public Curator's Office by the Queensland Literature Board of who are known as public defenders, and Review. who do their job very conscientiously, recom­ mend to an accused that he should appeal Mr. BENNETI: The Literature Board of against a conviction. Every person in the Review does not operate under the Criminal community has the right of appeal against Code. It has nothing to do with the conviction if he thinks it is wrong in law Criminal Code; it was constituted by a or if he has suffered in his opinion some 764 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply injustice that makes him decide to exercise improper. Whether it has been the practice his right of appeal. Every member of the for 20 years or 20 months, it is certainly community has the right of appeal against and positively wrong and should be rectified conviction, and that applies also to the immediately. This matter was brought to unfortunate persons who have not sufficient my attention, and I was amazed to find that money to engage private counsel and who the prosecuting authority should have the are defended by the Public Defender. How­ right to decide whether a convicted person ever, when the Public Defender, following should have the right to appeal, or whether on a conviction, recommends an appeal, the there are any grounds of appeal, or insuffi­ prisoner is not automatically entitled to cient grounds to appeal, and can recommend appeal in the same way as a person with against it. It means that the prosecutor can money to pay for his appeal. Normally he get the accused to Boggo Road and can then is sentenced to some term of imprisonment decide whether or not there are sufficient and is sent to Boggo Road gaol. The grounds for appeal. I believe that the papers qualified counsel provided for him by the should be sent to the Public Defender, who State under the poor prisoner's defence appeared for the defendant, for him to scheme is not allowed to put on paper recommend whether the appeal should his recommendation that there are grounds proceed. The practice is positively unfair, for appeal. The Public Defender is not and the Minister for Justice should rectify allowed to draw up the grounds of appeal. it at the earliest possible opportunity. I Those who are forced to accept poor have been told that this practice has been prisoner's defence, and I am not decrying in existence for some time and is in existence it because those people do a very worthwhile today. job and are skilled defence lawyers, are forced to draw up in their prison cell Mr. SuUivan: Do you believe that the their grounds of appeal against conviction former Minister for Justice should have done and sentence. In some cases it may be a something about it? life sentence, and in other cases a sentence Mr. BENNETT: If the practice was in for many years. When they draw up their operation during the period that the former grounds of appeal they are then sent to Minister for Justice was in control, and he a governmental authority to decide whether knew of it, it should have been eradicated or not they are entitled to proceed with by him. I have no hesitation in saying that. their appeal, the right for which is provided Those who knew of its existence should have for any other person under our Criminal drawn his attention to it. Code. What happens when they send in their grounds of appeal? One would expect Mr. Suliivan: Is it something that has that the grounds would be submitted to the grown up in the department? public defender who acted for them at their trial, who would know the law involved, and Mr. Aikens: It rose. the merits of the case, and could conscien­ Mr. BENNETI: Yes, it rose. People may tiously recommend whether an appeal should be launched or not. However, it is not the think that because it has been the practice defending counsel who is consulted about for many years it is all right-because it the appeal. When the poor prisoner appeals has been the practice for years it is the proper the person who decides whether he should thing. It certainly is not, and I believe that be allowed to proceed with his appeal is there should be legislation to prevent this the Crown prosecutor who aimed at and practice from being continued. secured his conviction. I submit that is My next criticism does not apply to all the a really iniquitous setup under our criminal officers of the department, many of whom law. The poor prisoner's defence scheme is are qualified to conduct their practice. In of great advantage to the State, but it is the Crown Law Office, under the present totally improper when the Crown Prosecutor Government, there has been a growing tend­ secures a conviction, and can then decide ency to prosecute accused persons whether whether or not a defendant may approach prosecutors think they can make the charges the Court of Criminal Appeal to have the stick, or not. This must be governmental conviction set aside, or considered. The policy because it applies not only to the Crown Law officers who secure the conviction Crown Law Office but also to the Police should not see the grounds of appeal until Department, which is responsible for launch­ they are filed in the court and certainly should not have the final say on whether ing many prosecutions, particularly under the or not a poor prisoner is entitled to proceed Traffic Act. Tirere are many instances where to appeal. evidence is submitted to the prosecuting authority, whether it be the Crown Law Office Mr. Houghton: How long has that been or the Police Department, and it must be the law? perfectly obvious that a conviction could not possibly be secured on that evidence. As Mr. BENNETI: That is not the law. a matter of fact, it happened with me yes­ That is the practice at present. terday. There was absolutely no evidence on Mr. Houghton: For how long has it been the depositions put before the prosecuting the practice? Crown Law authorities that could lead any able lawyer, or even an ordinary lawyer, to Mr. BENNETI: I do not know how long the conclusion that he could possibly get a it has been the practice, but it is certainly case to the jury. If you cannot possibly get Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 765 a case to the jury you are only wasting the necessary funds, decide to plead guilty and Crown's money in proceeding with the prose­ thereby are fined and have a conviction cution, but it happens and it happened to me recorded against their names. yesterday. My client was prosecuted. Two Mr. Ewan: Surely the barrister will cut or three days before the prosecution com­ his fees in those circumstances? menced, I submitted to the Crown Law Office my reasons for their entering a no true Mr. BENNETT: Any barrister with Labour bill so that they would not put the Crown inclinations would, but there are others who to the expense of proceeding with the trial. adopt the attitude that a day's work is a Incidentally, I am quoting this only as an day's work and if you miss out on the fees example; it goes on regularly. I gave my for one job you cannot catch them up reasons in law under the Bills of Exchange tomorrow. Act. It was a case in relation to cheques. I pointed out to them that they obviously had Dealing with what might be termed the no evidence that they could get to a jury Governmental policy or the Crown Law and asked why should they persist. Obviously Office attitude, I should like to make one because of Government policy, they pro­ final observation about the remarks made by ceeded with the trial, thereby making the the Public Service Commissioner in relation State pay the expense of having a jury to appeals against promotion in the Public assembled, having the judge in attendance and Service. I read with some amazement, and all the Criminal Court orderlies. The certainly with some dismay, the part of the accused, on the other hand, had to pay fees, Public Service Commissioner's 1eport in which and he had to travel down from Gympie to he said that the right of public servants to be here for the trial. The jury was duly appeal against the promotion of another officer sworn in and then asked to retire while we should be abolished. It was with some degree argued this legal point which, to me, seemed of satisfaction that I noted that no Cabinet so obvious and fundamental. The judge Minister associated himself with that remark accepted my submissions and said, "No, there or agreed with it. The Public Service Com­ is no case to go to the jury. There is no missioner clainM1:. Ramsden: That would not be the face the barrier but will plead guilty. reason for his comments, would it? It happens under the Traffic Act, too. Mr. BENNETT: It probably is, because I Perhaps the over-zealous, over-conscientious always upset him when I appear. If he policeman-sometimes operating from other takes away the right of appeal, he will have motives-books a motorist for a certain the final say about who is promoted to the offence. The elements of the offence are not top jobs in the Public Service. Of course, there but the prosecuting authority will drag that could easily create an obsequious team him through the Traffic Court knowing that, of public servants in Queensland, people who whether the man is convicted or not, he know they have to bow to the will of the will be put to certain expense, to retain Public Service Commissioner or get no promo­ his clean name, and that is a penalty on its tion. own. Mr. Ramsden: You could still have appeals That policy should be reviewed by the without barristers appearing, could you not? Government. Where it is perfectly and patently obvious on the evidence before the Mr. BENNETT: The Commissioner did police or the Crown Law authority that a not suggest that. He did not call them barris­ conviction cannot possibly be secured, no ters; he called them "appellants' representa­ prosecution should be launched. I submit tives." Incidentally, the appellant is not it is purely vindictive; it is oppressive and compelled to have a barrister to appear for certainly it makes it very hard financially on him. He can appear for himself, he can those unfortunates who are forced to pay get a fellow public servant to appear for him, out money to defend themselves against a or he can get other people quite well fitted prosecution for which there is no evidence to appear for him. No doubt many of the and where there is no chance of making it advocates who appear before the Industrial stick. It is no doubt a hardship on those Commission could appear for him. I state who can afford to pay for their defence. It quite frankly that in appeals of this type, is a greater hardship on those who cannot particularly appeals before the Industrial afford to pay for their defence and who, Commission, industrial advocates are well in order to save themselves from financial qualified to appear and they have consider­ difficulties, or because they cannot raise the able skill and experience. 766 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. Aikens: Some trade union officials are Mr. BENNETT: Yes, that is without better than all of them. expenses, but that 28.7 per cent. would represent a very large sum of money. It Mr. BENNETT: I will concede that, too, would be an abundant indication that the in their own particular field. Nobody can insurance companies are far from going hope to be perfect in all aspects of the broke. practice of law, which, like medicine is becoming a wider and wider field. Those By way of observation or comment dur­ who specialise in a particular field and become ing my speech I said that not only do the skilled in it are better qualified to appear insurance companies not want to retire from than those who are not specialists in it, and insurance business but they want to stay I have no hesitation in conceding them the in the business, and they would not be stay­ accolade. The Public Service Commissioner ing in the business if they were running suggested that there should be no appeal, that themselves into bankruptcy. In his report the grounds of appeal and reasons for the the Insurance Commissioner says- appeal should not be made public by the "A number of applications for licenses appellant. I hope ·that suggestion will not to carry on general and marine insurances be seriously considered by any member of were received and licenses were granted Cabinet, particularly by the Treasurer. It to eight insurers." is invariably the Public Service Commis­ saner's representative who introduces He does not give the number of applicants. disquieting tones at these hearings in an There could have been 50 or 100 who endeavour to convince the appeal board that applied to enter this very productive and the appellant is a blackguard, is of no conse­ lucrative field during the year, of which no quence, and should be thrown out of the fewer than eight applications were accepted. Public Service. The Commissioner's repre­ Obviously they are making an abundant sentative always endeavours to satisfy the amount of money from their operations. board along these lines merely because a man The Insurance Commissioner continues- is exercising his right of appeal under the "At 30 June, 1961, there were current Public Service Act. I have noticed that con­ licenses for 141 insurers (excluding the sistently, and it will be a sorry day for State Government Insurance Office, Queensland if such appeals are cut out Queensland), 19,414 agents and 16 because the Commissioner wants to be the brokers." dictator of the Public Service. It is certainly a lucrative field, a very fertile You will remember, Mr. Taylor, that last field for funds for insurance companies. session the Treasurer spoke in defence of It excells even the real estate business and the insurance companies of the State. When the land subdividing business that has it was suggested that they should be made attracted so many leading men to Queens­ to pay claims for insurance by people who land. They are still dead keen to come to had been victims of hit-run motorists he Queensland to get amongst the money. said that the companies could not afford to pay any additional claims. I said at the Earlier in the Session I made reference time that if they were making a fortune to the fact that the President of the Police out of one or other of the operations of Union,. a man of conscience an~ ability, insurance business they should be required had smd that the Queensland Police Force to take the bad with the good. If they had insufficient manpower. Of course, I are making usurious profits in one field they was scoffed at by the Minister for Labour should be prepared to put up with the and Industry. In other words he said it burdens and difficulties in another. Since was wrong, that the President of the Police then we have seen the Annual Report of Union was giving inaccurate information, the Insurance Commissioner for the year that he was untrue in his statements, and ended 30 June, 1961, under the Insurance all the other things he says as he gyrates Act of 1960. He says- and storms around his little pedestal. "From the statistics published with this An Opposition Member: He is going to Report it will be noted that for the year London. ended 31 December, 1960, the ratio of claims to premiums was 103.5 per centum Mr. BENNETT: Yes, as the Agent­ for Motor Vehicle Insurance Act business General! At the moment he is sojourning and 71.3 per centum for Motor Vehicle at Hayman Island. The report of the Com­ (Comprehensive) insurance, whilst the missioner of Police for the 12 months average expense rate of all licensed ended 30 June, 1961, states- insurers (including State Government "The total number of crimes reported Insurance Office, Queensland) was 31.5 throughout the State during the year ended per centum." 30th June, 1961, was 30,412 as compared with 27,487 for the previous year." In other words the claims' rate to the premiums' rate for motor vehicle compre­ In other words in spite of Mr. Morris's hensive insurance was 71.3 per cent., show­ protestations and denials there was an ing a profit margin of 28.7 per cent. in increase in the number of crimes to the that field. extent of some 3,000 instances during the year ended 30 June, 1961. That in itself Mr. Hiley: That is without expenses. was alarming enough but it goes on further Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 767 to say in a rather embarrassing fashion, or a doubtful one, one would think there that the total number of offences cleared would be some reason for it. We are reliably up during the year was 12,377 and of this informed by a member of the Trades Union number 4,705 were committed by juveniles. Conference that he has definite information The alarming feature of this advice is that to the effect that the clause was deleted as in the year ended 30 June, 1961, 18,035 a result of £30,000 to £50,000 changing crimes went unsolved; that is, of the 30,412 hands for the purposes of electioneering crimes committed only 12,377 were cleared expenses. up, the record figure of unsolved crimes Mr. Ramsden: How reliable would your in Queensland being 18,035 for the year. informant be? That clearly shows that the manpower of Mr. BENNETT: In the past he has had the Police Force of Queensland should be good information. stepped up immediately. It is quite obvious that the police have not the facilities, the Mr. Ramsden: Did he have any informa­ manpower or the material to adequately cope tion about 1,000 voters not voting on the with the growing incidence of crime through­ Mt. Isa issue? out the length and breadth of the State, and it is causing concern and alarm to those Mr. BENNETT: He knew a lot about the responsible for its detection. breach of the Posts and Telegraohs Acts, committed by the Minister for Labour and Mr. Davies: They are sending the Minister Industry, which proved to be correct. His to London. information in this respect might be accurate. In any case there must be some explanation Mr. BENNETT: Yes, it is perfectly obvious or reason why the Government abandoned the why they are sending the Minister for Labour clause. They have given no reason and the and Industry to London. They want a man claim made at the Trade Union Congress in who can safeguard Queensland against the Brisbane has not been seriously challenged. attacks of bodgies and criminals. All the It would be interesting to know the reason criminals from New South Wales, Victoria, and whether or not the one advanced at the and other States know full well that Ken Trade Union Congress is the accurate one. Morris wants them to come to Queensland. In the matter of industrial disputes, I consider He has a very depleted Police Force, he is that good relations between management and away all the time himself, he should be going men are far more favourable to all parties to London shortly, so now is the time to and to the Country as a whole than disputes descend on Queensland. Obviously, that is and strikes, and good relations in the main the thought prevailing amongst criminals in did apply between management and men at other parts of Australia. Mt. Isa until the elimination of the clause. Mr. Davies interjected. Tempers then became frayed, . injust~ce became manifest, and any worker w1th ordm­ Mr. BENNETT: The hon. member for ary tenacity or intestinal fortitude would ;not Bowen would perhaps know more about tolerate such grave injustice, hence the stnke. Hayman Island than the Minister for Labour and Industry would, although the Minister is Mr. Ramsden: What was the injustice? certainly endeavouring to improve his local Mr. BENNETI: It is obvious. My friend knowledge of that area. The hon. member and colleague the hon. member for Belmont for Bowen is anxious to supplant the Minister <>ave the figures. The company made a for Health and Home Affairs. As a matter profit of £5,000,000 or £6,000,000 when the of fact, he says he should be understudy to bonus was £8 a week. This morning we him now. read in the newspaper that the profit la~t For the brief remaining time at my disposal year was a record one, yet t~e comp~ny 1s I do not wish to traverse ground that has not prepared to consider an mcrease m the been travelled by other leading speakers on bonus. The injustice is obvious. Unemploy­ this side, concerning the industrial position ment is rife and the big powers believe they in this State, but I do truthfully say that the can force men into employment under any whole Mt. Isa dispute has been brought conditions. In spite of the profit of millions about by the Government's deletion of the of pounds the company is prepared to cut bonus clause from the Industrial Conciliation out the bonus to which the men are justly and Arbitration Act. This provision for both entitled, merely because it is protected by parties to approach the Court had operated a Government amendment of the law and very satisfactorily for quite a number of because of the serious unemployment created years. by the Government. There is no doubt that the deletion of that Mr. Ramsden: The company did not clause has been the fundamental cause of the attempt to cut out the bonus. present trouble. I was rather sceptical about what might have been going on in this dis­ Mr. BENNETT: The Government cut out pute, but I felt that any Government deleting the policy of allocation of bonus on a just from an Act a clause that had operated so basis. In spite of the opinions expressed successfully for the protection of the Govern­ elsewhere. I fully subscribe to the view that ment and the State over a long number of tlre situation amounts to a lock-out by the years, must have had some reason for so mine management. In relation to that lock­ doing. Whether it be a valid and honest one out I say that we as Parliamentarians should 768 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

stand for the individual's right to work and Mr. AIKENS: We are heavily indebted to his freedom to work where he will. Men the Leader of the Opposition for the question are not made to be slaves. Where a closed he directed to the Minister for Justice today shop is instituted, safeguards should be pro­ about the case of a man who fell asleep at vided to ensure that the rights of the the wheel, and as a result of falling asleep at individual are not likely to be jeopardised the wheel drove on the wrong side of the and that workers are not victimised by some road, without due care and attention and pressure or power group among fellow crashed into a woman coming in the opposite workers. direction. Yet, because he fell asleep the I believe in trade unions and I urge all magistrate, and a District Court judge, on men and all Parliamentarians to do what appeal, have ruled that he was neither crim­ they can to secure justice for the men inally nor civilly negligent because it is quite employed at the Mt. Isa mine. ~he trade natural to fall asleep while you are at the union movement is regarded and must con­ wheel of a car. tinue to be regarded as an admirable institu­ tion. We should always ensure that it Mr. Bennett: That was not the reason-he remains truly democratic and truly rep­ had no previous knowledge that he was likely resentative, and we should not ignore or play to fall asleep. a part in its intimidation by big management. Mr. AIKENS: Well, I do not want to be Mr. AIKENS (Townsvil!e South) (3.34 argumentative about this, but at least we can p.m.): The hon. member for South Brisbane say that the case put forward by the Leader quite rightly in my opinion suggested an of the Opposition has at last stirred the alteration in the setup with regard to poor conscience of the Minister for Justice, and prisoner's defence. That is something that I did not think anything could do that. like Topsy has apparently grown up in the Crown Law Office. I think we should be !VIr. Ramsden: Shocking! indebted to the hon. member for bringing the matter forward. However, I regret that The CHAIRMAN: Order! he with the hon. members for Windsor and Mt. Gravatt, who are members of the legal Mr. AIKENS: While the hon. member for profession, have not applied themselves to South Brisbane is on the job with anomalies necessary amendments of the law to reduce that exist in the law, I suggest that he may the awful toll of the road. clear up a few anomalies in the legal profes­ I do not propose to spend much time on sion that he may know something about. He the subject this afternoon, but the hon. may deal with the rotten practice of some member for South Brisbane made some solicitors when dealing with an unfortunate eulogistic references to Mr. Justice Matthews client who comes to them for a defence, and his projected retirement. I have nothing mainly on criminal matters. The solicitor says to say about it, but I remind the Committee it will be necessary to brief one of the best that Mr. Justice Matthews ruled that a barristers in the State in order to get him off person riding or driving inside a double the legal hook, and then tells the unfortunate line can cross that double line and thereby client that such-and-such a barrister can be commit a very serious traffic breach, and all briefed only for 150 guineas and the client he has to do is say that he saw or imagined pays over the 150 guineas. Hon. members he saw the driver of a car ahead of him must bear in mind that the client rarely sees give him an unlawful "come-on" signal, even the barrister. The client pays the 150 guineas if in response to that unlawful .come-on over to the solicitor and the solicitor hangs signal that he imagined he saw and having onto 100 guineas of it and pays over only committed the serious traffic breach of 50 guineas to the barrister. Neither the crossing a double line, he runs into someone barrister nor the client knows that the coming in the opposite direction and solicitor is hanging onto the other 100 seriously injures or kills him. It is not guineas. Only the other day I was reading a necessary for you to identify the car, or give book from the Parliamentary Library in the number of the car, or even identify the which a case of that kind was proven to the driver. The ·hon. member for South hilt to the High Court in England. The Law Brisbane like myself and everyone else must Society did nothing about it. The first the have realised the injustice of that particular barrister knew about it was when the case interpretation of the law of criminal negli­ was thrown out of court and the unfortunate gence as given by Justice Matthews. He defendant happened to say, "Well, I could ordered that the .case be taken from the have come along and defended this case jury. myself without employing a fellow in a wig Mr. Bennett: You misunderstood me. and gown and I would have saved myself 150 guineas." That was the first tim~ the The CHAIRMAN: Order! I am not going barrister knew that the unfortunate pnsoner to allow the hon. member to speak of had paid the soli~itor 150 guineas .. '"!'he injustice being given by judges. The hon. barrister got 30 gumeas from t~e so~ICit~r member has previously made similar remarks and the solicitor stuck the 120 gumeas m his in the House, and I ask him to discontinue pocket. The law society did nothing about them immediately. it. The unfortunate client then had to take Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 769 a _civil action for the recovery of the 120 to conduct its activities for the coming 12 gumeas from the solicitor and the solicitor months. If the valuations are low it strikes a is still blooming like the green bay tree. high rate; if the valuations are high it strikes I understand that is a very common a low rate. It will strike a rate that will bring practice in Queensland. Of course, it is very in the required amount of money from the difficult to detect, but if the hon. member valuation that has been determined. If people for South Brisbane, the hon. member for are paying high council rates, let them not Windsor, and the hon. member for Mt. blame the high valuations. It is a very Gravatt, want to do something about cleaning convenient excuse for some aldermen and up the legal profession, let them start right some councillors to say, "We have to hit in their own profession and do a bit of you with a high council rate and take a lot cleaning up there. of money from you because valuations are I wish to deal with local government high." That is untrue; it is false and it is which is very close to the people. I am deal: cheap because, as I said, if the valuations are ing now with government of shire council or high there is no reason why the rate struck city council areas in which residents live. should not be low. We know that in many instances valuations However, there are other matters that I today are fantastic. They are based on special want to deal with and one is that I suppose prices that are being paid for special allot­ that, with the increased amount of work that ments for a special reason. I cannot do better is placed on the shoulders of local author­ than cite my own street. In my own street ities, the rate burden that has to be borne in Townsville there were a couple of allot­ by the average citizen in the average town in ments up towards Charters Towers Road that Queensland is becoming almost too heavy to were a tea-tree swamp. The old owner bear. Again I am going to cite my own town, frequently said to me that no-one would ever and I am going to cite it quite calmly and be mug enough to buy them. But along came quite truthfully. No-one can accuse me of a building speculator. He paid £400 each indulging in political propaganda, because for them. He spent a fair amount of money I have deliberately left this speech until now on filling them in, because they took a lot of when there will not be a council election in filling, and then he built a house on each of Townsville for the next two years. If I had them. Because the people are house-hungry, wanted to make political propaganda out of they rushed in and paid him such a price for it I would have made this speech last year the house that he had built on each allotment or I would leave it for another two years and that he was able to recoup the expense not make it then because I am certain to be here only of the house but also of the allotment in two years' time after the 1963 election, and and of the filling-in. Woolworths-B.C.C. came that is more than many hon. members who in and bought four or five houses at the end are listening to me can say. We have reached of our street and the other day they opened the stage in Townsville-and I know that a big supermarket. They paid, I would say, accusations of extravagance have been very high prices for those houses and for levelled against the council up there with the land on which they stood. When the considerable justification but I am not going Valuer-General comes along he will assess to deal with that angle of it-we have the value of every allotment in that area on reached the stage in Townsville where the the basis of those fictitious and fantastic ordinary worker right out in the suburbs on prices that were paid for a particular purpose. an ordinary allotment is paying over £1 a week to live in his own home. We know that Mr. Hiley: I can assure you that you are there are many workers who lived for years, quite wrong about the Woolworths-B.C.C. reared their families on the Strand and in the land. If you look at the Valuation of Land North Ward area of Townsville who, in Act you will see that the prices for com­ recent years, have had to sell their homes on mercial purposes are expressly excluded from the Strand and in North Ward simply because having any application to valuations for they could not afford to live in the homes domestic purposes. In any case, I am sure that their families had occupied, for gener­ those people will appeal. ations in some cases, and they have had to Mr. Gaven: They will appeal all right. go right out into the outer suburbs where they could afford to live in their own homes Mr. AIKENS: I am glad to hear that. As and pay the staggering council rates. As the usual, I intend to speak with the utmost hon. member for Redcliffe interjects, it will tranquility. I should like this hour that I have not be long before the Council will chase to spend in talking to develop, if possible, them out of there. into a tranquil debate because I am going to deal with matters that I think are of vital Here is a case that was put to me recently interest to the people. by the President of the Old Age Pensioners' Association in Townsville. The Federal As a man who has been 19 years in local Government increased the age pension by authority work I know that valuations, in so Ss. a week, or £13 a year. The Townsville far as local authority charges are concerned, City Council took £10 of that £13 in extra do not matter a roasted peanut because the rates, and tl1e Townsville Regional Electricity local authority each year sets out and deter­ Board will take the other £3 in increased elec­ mines the amount of money it will require tric light and power charges. Pensioners in 25 770 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Townsville who own their own homes are who were unemployed. It was put forward therefore no better off as a result of that at that time that the burden of assisting £13 a year increase in the age pension. workers who were unemployed should not fall upon their fellow workers to the extent Mr. Smith: Is it only pensioners' homes of ls. a week and that some means should be that would be affected? devised to make the wealthy as well as the Mr. AIKENS: No, all homes are affected, poor assist those who were unemployed. but I was quoting the case of pensioners, Again I think it was a Labour Government people in whom the. hon. member for tl:rat introduced the unemployment social ser­ Windsor is not the least bit interested, of vice deduction that comes out of our income course. I merely quoted them as a case in tax. The rich now pay more than the poor point. to provide money for those who are unem­ ployed and those who cannot go to work Mr. Smith: You are quite wrong in saying because of illness. When that proposal was that I am not interested in them. first put forward men like the hon. member for South Brisbane-I do not question his Mr. AIKENS: It affects the workers· it honesty in that regard-and the Minister for affects business people. One busi~ess Public Works said it could not be done. manager in Flinders Street told me that the They say that it is impossible, but until a increased rate struck by the Townsville City solution to the problem is found the injustice Council will mean that he will have to pay is going to continue. £600 extra on his business premises. We know how businesses are conducted. He will Mr. Richter: I am asking you for a sug­ not pay that out of his own pocket. The gestion. workers will eventually have to pay it in the form of increased charges for the goods Mr. AIKENS: There should be some sold by that particular man. means of getting agreement between the State Government and the local authority I have expressed this view in public before, about the total tax revenue received in a so no-one can claim that I am trying to big­ local authority area. I know that we have note myself in putting it forward here. As a to work in with the Federal Government matter of fact, I think I expressed this view because of the uniform tax provisions. when I was a very illustrious member of the Townsville City Council many years ago. Mr. Mann: Don't you think that it is the We must get away from the system operating Federal Government's responsibility to find today of raising local authority revenue on work? the valuation of the land, because it is unfair and unjust. Take my own position. What Mr. AIKENS: I am not going to enter into I say of myself can be said of other men in that now. I am talking about contributions other streets of Townsville, in other pro­ that should be made by people in a local vincial cities, or in other local authority areas authority area to the work done by the ?f the State who have good jobs. My salary local authority. The contribution should be IS £2,501 10s. a year. It should be twice on the basis of income, not on the basis that if I were paid on the basis of merit. of land valuation. In my street there are pensioners; in my street there are casual workers; in my street Mr. Bennett: That is independent of the there are people who earn the basic wage or size and value of the land? a little over the basic wage. Yet because the valuation of their land is the same as the Mr. AIKENS: I do not think it would valuation of my land, they pay exactly the matter. I think that the man on £3,000 same local authority rates and charges as a year, who pays more now to the State I do. That is unfair, and until we can devise Government and more to the Federal Gov­ some system-! put this to the Treasurer ernment than the man on £1,000 a year, because I admit that the problem is an should also pay more to the local authority intricate one-of making people pay their than the man on £1,000 a year. It would local authority rates on the basis of their not matter if I were a wealthy man, which income, just as they contribute to the State I am not, and I lived in a little shack; it Government and the Federal Government on would not matter if Jim Jones were a poor the basis of their income, this injustice and man and lived in a mansion. Both of us inequity will remain. pay to the State Government and the Com­ monwealth Government only on the basis of Mr. Richter: Can you tell us how we can our income. do that? Mr. Richter: How would you control large Mr. AIKENS: I said that the problem is aggregations of land? an intricate one. Mr. AIKENS: That is something the Mini­ Mr. Bennett: It is impossible. ster could put some of his officers to work Mr. AIKENS: It may not be impossible. on. As far as I know there are top-ranking, I can remember years ago a State Govern­ big brass shiny pants that could be very ment-it was a Labour Government-impos­ well occupied in grappling with that prob­ ing a deduction of 1s. a week on each worker lem. Let me be quite honest about it. I to provide one day's work a week for those have not been able to work out in detail Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 771 how the scheme could operate. At least I There is the question of a Council and the have put the general proposal forward. All application of their own by-laws. As I said, I have got from some hon. members are I was 19 years on Councils and I was prob­ sniggers and sneers of disbelief. I remind ably guilty of some of these things myself, them that if they care to read the history although I honestly cannot remember them. of parliamentary government over the cen­ If a person makes application to a turies they will find that greater problems Council for a subdivision of land, to alter than this one have arisen from time to his building, to erect a building, to do any­ time, but that they have been grappled with, thing at all, the Council has the right to solved and overcome. refuse him the permission he seeks if the permission is contrary to the by-laws of Mr. Gaven: If we don't solve this one the Council. If such a man feels aggrieved there will be complete chaos. and is foolish enough to go to law then, of course, he fights with his own money, Mr. AIKENS: Absolutely. We must get the Council fights with the ratepayers' money, away from the principle of making con­ the aldermen do not jeopardise one penny tributions to local authorities on the basis of their own money in the matter, and the of land valuations. I see no reason why man is certain to lose because the case will wealthy people should not pay more for the be decided on a point of Jaw. upkeep of their local authority, just as they pay more for the upkeep of their State Gov­ Then we get the case, far too frequently, ernment and Federal Government, than do of a man who applies for something from poor people. the Council and the permission· is refused, and he then finds that another fellow has Mr. Hughes: Does not that apply now in applied for the same thing, pr~bably next that business people pay more? door or just up the street, or JUSt around the ~orner, and the Council have given him Mr. AIKENS: No. If a shop is built on permission to do what they refused the first an allotment that is valued at £2,000 and man. What redress has the first man against an unfortunate battler happens to inherit the Council or to put it bluntly, who can a house on an allotment valued at £2,000, prosecute the Council for breaking their own they both pay the same amount to the local by-laws? Certainly not the Council. The authority, but they do not pay the same Council will not prosecute themselves. The amount in taxation to the State Government man who is aggrieved cannot go to law and or the Federal Government. That is the say "Look, I wanted to put up a building point I am trying to make. Anyway, I leave on 'my allotment. It was not in conformity the thought with the Committee. I shall with the by-laws and the Council refused give the matter further consideration and me permission to erect it and consequently if I come up with a proposal, or anything I have no case against the Council, but they that looks at all like a proposal, I will put gave Jim Jones permission to erect a build­ it forward. Without trying to be facetious ing in exactly the same circumstances four or flippant, I really believe that they are or five doors up the street." What can that many top ranking, competent public servants man do against the Council? He can do in Queensland who should be put on the job absolutely nothing at all. to see if they can work out a suitable system Mr. Bennett: In Brisbane he could appeal or formula. to the Minister for Local Government against Mr. Ewan: Don't the pensioners in Towns­ the decision to refuse. ville get a 50 per cent. remission of rates? Mr. AIKENS: No. I am glad the hon. member for South Brisbane made that inter­ Mr. AIKENS: They do not get any remis­ jection because only last week a man in my sion of rates in Townsville. Pensioners do electorate made application to the Towns­ not get one brass farthing in remissions. They ville City Council to sell an area of his do not get anything and, I will be quite land that was to be used for a poultry farm. honest and say that there are arguments for it and against it because, with the Mr. Bennett: I am talking only about graduated scale of pensions, again you strike Brisbane. I said, "In Brisbane." a Jot of involvment when you try to do Mr. AIKENS: I am sorry. At any rate, justice to the pensioner. That is a matter the Council refused this man permission and perhaps on which the legal men might help. that refusal was in accordance with their Mr. Smith: I have given you advice before by-Jaws. The man came to me and I said, and you have refused it. "I do not think there is anything you can do." He said, "I am going to Brisbane Mr. AIKENS: I would be certain to lose next week." I said, "In that case, I will if I acted on any advice the hon. member arrange for you to see the Director of Local gave me at anytime. Do not let us indulge Government or his deputy. Perhaps he may in wise-cracking or bon mots or anything be able to explain the circumstances to like that. Let us try to be sensible because you." these are matters agitating the minds of the That man saw the deputy to the Director people, particularly the ordinary people, and of Local Government who was very they are the only people about whom I am courteous and helpful but said, "What can concerned. you do? You cannot take action against 772 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply the Council because the Council will beat against him. He could go to the board you. What they refused you was not in and say, "I made application to the council accordance with their by-laws." to allow me to do something and I was That area had been declared by the refused permission and that refusal was in Council as a residential area and they said accordance with its by-law, but a fellow they could not have a poultry farm in a up the road made an application to do residential area, which is within the province the same thing and permission was granted." of their by-laws, but blind Freddie knows There should be an authority or board that there are many poultry farms in resi­ to which he could state his case and the dential areas all over Townsville. If that board should have power to deal with the man goes to court and says, "I will show matter. you where there is a poultry farm in a Mr. Bennett: That can be done in residential area," that argument will not Brisbane. stand in a court for five minutes. And so the man has to swallow his frustrations, as Mr. Hiley: If you carried that suggestion the saying goes and do absolutely nothing far enough, you would completely destroy about it. the concept of local authority. With all its faults, authority rests in the local body. Mr. Richter: Surely you would not take That is the whole concept of local govern­ that right from the council? ment. Mr. AIKENS: I am going to make a Mr. Bennett interjected. suggestion later. When I was in the coun­ cil I believe there was a provision, par­ Mr. AIKENS: I am not dealing with the ticularly in the building by-laws, the final Brisbane City Council. As the hon. mem­ clause, which read as a similar clause reads ber for South Brisbane knows there are in many Acts of Parliament, "Notwithstand­ two separate Acts, the City of Brisbane ing anything herein contained the Council Act and the Local Government Act. may do something in contravention of these Mr. Bennett: According to the Treasurer by-~aws." Again, speaking from memory, I such a proposal would destroy local govern­ believe that had to be done by resolution ment but apparently the Government did of the council. If the council was doing not think so when they introduced the right ~omething in contravention of its by-laws, of appeal against decisions of the Brisbane 1t could do so only by resolution of the City Council. couricil. Mr. AIKENS: It would not destroy it; Mr. Mann: I will give you a case that happened in Brisbane. it would cleanse it, because the only cases that would come before the board would Mr. AIKENS: I thank the hon. member be those in which it could be proved that very much f?r his offer to help, but I have the local authority did something it should many cases m Townsville and I have only not have done. 60 minutes in which to make my speech. I am not suggesting interference. I have Unfortunately, as a result of the council's said time and time again in the Chamber not doing these things by resolution as a that except in extraordinary circumstances result of . their being done by offic~rs of there should be no interference with the the councll, no-one knows about them till work of a local authority. But extraordin­ they are done. If they were done only ary circumstances are arising and there is by resolution of the council and those reso­ no court of appeal. There is no board or lutions were published in the Press, some person to whom an aggrieved citizen can protest could be made, but because of the go. He cannot go to the Minister for way they are now done no-one knows any­ Public Works, the Director of Local Govern­ thing about them till they are done. ment, or anyone else. I am not suggesting for a moment that a person should be able Mr. Bennett: Since there is the right of to go to a board and say, "Mr. Minister, appeal in Brisbane and not in Townsville I do not agree with the resolution carried do you say this Government has been guilty by the Council at last Thursday night's of sectional legislation in that respect also? meeting. I do not think they should have decided to put bit~men in Bill Jones's Mr. AIKENS: One of the things that street and not in my street", or something should be done, if there is to be a court like that, but, when a citizen can show that case, is to make the aldermen personally a council has discriminated against him in and severally liable for any costs that might favour of someone else, I think the board be awarded to the particular applicant or should have some authority to deal with person who takes action. That will stop the matter. I will give a couple of instances much of what I refer to loosely as the to drive home my point. No-one who knows hanky-panky that goes on. anything about me in Townsville can accuse I suggest, in reply to the interjection by me of holding a brief for young John Bart­ the Minister for Public Works, that some lett. Some time ago he applied to the board or authority should be set up to which Townsville City Council for permission to an aggrieved citizen can appeal or apply demolish a building in Flinders Street and if he thinks a council has discriminated erect an arcade of shops, with a basement Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 773

arcade of shops as well. He was given people who want to build their homes are permission to do this, the plans were told that unless they build in accordance with approved, and he went ahead and spent the council by-laws their building will be several thousands of pounds on it. How­ pulled down or they will be prosecuted. I can ever, the Townsville City Council by-laws take you for a drive around Townsville, Mr. provide that there shall be 8 feet clear­ Taylor, and even double you on my bike, ance from floor to ceiling. His contractor if you care to take the risk, and I can show allowed the 8 feet clearance from floor you scores of houses that have been erected to ceiling and then put terrazo tiles on less than 15 feet from the front fence and top of the concrete to a depth of 1t inches. less than 6 feet from the side fence. On That meant that the distance from the floor a block just down in Ackers Street there is to the ceiling was only 7 feet lOt inches a big bungalow home which was recently and the Council refused to allow him to cut up into two fiats and they allowed the occupy, let or lease any shop in the builder to put extensions on each side, like basement. pimples on a pumpkin, which brought it well within the 6 feet from each side fence. Mr. Hiley: I expect they would be techni­ cally right. The other day I quoted the case of Alf Hay, who has done a great deal for the Mr. AIKENS: Yes, I am glad of that­ workers in the Mundingburra area. He technically right. bought a house for demolition and took it Bartlett had no case against them at all. out to one of his allotments in the Munding­ He sought legal advice and was told that he burra area. He rebuilt it to make it avail­ had no case against the council because of able for cheap rental for the workers. Along this by-law. But listen to this: just down came the Council and they said, "You have and across Stokes Street is the City Building got to shift that house back 18 inches because owned by the Townsville City Council which it is only 13 feet 6 inches from the front extends from the Central Hotel, right down fence." You know how much trouble and to the Commonwealth Bank. One of those worry and expense is caused by shifting a shops is leased by T.A.A. T.A.A. decided whole house. Alf Hay said, "What about to reconstruct their office premises and the the fellow just up there who is l?uilding a plans were ap_proved. They erected a ceiling house only 8 feet from the front fence?" only 7 ft. 6 m. from the floor which was They said, "Never mind about him. You 4t inches less than the ceiling 'in Bartlett's shift your house back 18 inches." He did arcade. Alderman George Roberts came not shift it back 18 inches. He had to cut along, as Deputy Mayor of Townsville with 18 inches off his front veranda and shift his a ?ig. fanfare of. trumpets, banging of drums, front veranda stumps back the 18 inches. drmkmg of wme and nibbling of hors That goes on all over the place. d'oeuvres and officially opened the T.A.A. Recently the Townsville City Council establishment with a 7 ft. 6 in. ceiling. passed a by-law providing that every flat had Bartlett saw everyone about i1 and asked what to have a garage for the car presumably to action could he take, and he came to me be owned by the occupant of the flat. That and I gave him some advice. When anyone is honoured more in the breach than in the wants ~o provoke someone to do something, observance. I can giVe some good advice. These basement shops were untenanted for months and Mr. Duggan: Are you against the minimum months, until finally something happened and regulations or against discriminatory treat­ recently one of the tenants moved in. ment. I have cited the case of the Council allow­ Mr. AIKENS: I am against discriminatory in~ a?d, indeed, officially opening in its own treatment and I am suggesting that some bmldmg an . office with a 7 ft. 6 in. ceiling board or authority be set up to which and preventing another man just along the aggrieved citizens can go. As the Minister street from leasing or renting premises with pointed out, the regulations are the law. a 7 ft. 1Ot in. ceiling. Under the present If the Council refuses permission you can setup Bartlett could not appeal to the Minis­ do nothing about it because you have not ter for Public Works and Local Government got a case. If they refuse you permission or to the Director of Local Government or and give permission to the man up the road, anyone else. He had to grin and bea; it you can do nothing about it either because That is a bit of a misstatement because h~ there is no board or authority to which you did not grin. He just had to be;r this shock­ can appeal. You have no case in law if ing victimisation by the Townsville City you go to law. Council. Mr. Hughes: Surely the remedy is in If anyone wants to erect a house in Towns­ the hands of the local authority. ville the by-laws say that it must be erected 15 feet from the front fence, unless it is to Mr. Sherrington: It is a Tory Council in be on a corner, when it must be 15 feet Townsville. from the front fence, 15 feet from the corner fence, :;tnd 6 feet from the other fence. In Mr. AIKENS: It would not matter whether an ordmary allotment the house has to be it was a Tory Council or a Labour Council. 15 feet. from the front fence and 6 feet from The political complexion of the Council does each side fence. Time and time again, not matter. I understand this discrimination 774 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply goes on with many local authorities and the Then we have the case of the Chun Tie person discriminated against has no right of family. I am sorry that the Minister for appeal to any authority. Public Lands and Irrigation is not in the Chamber as I am going to deal with him. I can take you to places in Townsville On Charters Towers Road members of the where the Council has insisted on double walls Chun Tie family own three valuable allot­ between flats. If you have an old chamfer ments facing Charters Towers Road. Many tim?er wall with 3" x 2" studs, you must put approaches have been made to them to sell a timber wall on the other side of those them and they will not sell. I suppose 3" x ~" studs. Then I can take you to places they are waiting for a better price. It is even m the heart of the city and show you their right to do that. Behind their allot­ walls that h~ve been built with 2" x 1" pine ments is a huge swamp. It is part of the studs and With sheets of Swedish hardboard drainage area of Townsville. But when we have a dry year such as this, or at the tail on each side. So the people who are com­ end of the ordinary year, the Council puts pelled to put timber walls on each side of the mowers in, cuts the grass, and that lruge the 3" x 2" studs have no cause for com­ swamp is used as a playing area on which pla~nt. Rather, they have cause for com­ junior Rugby League football is played, pro­ plam: but they have no possible chance of vided no rain falls. secunng redress. The Council wanted to buy these allot­ The most remarkable case is that of the ments from the Chun Ties and the Chun Mansfield Hotel in Townsville, owned by Ties said, "No, we won't sell." The Council a man n~med George Palmos. He decided then made an application to the Minister to close m the end of his side veranda on for Public Lands and Irrigation to resume the sec~nd storey and make living quarters the three Chun Tie allotments. The reason out of It. Honestly believing, I think that it gave was that it wanted them for the purpose of providing additional access to t~e h?tel buildi?g. was controlled b~ the L1censmg CommiSSIOn, he walled in the side Mindham Park. As I said, it is not a park. I wrote to the Minister for Public veranda wit? casements and wooden louvres. Lands about it and had a good strong talk to T~e ~ounc1l told him that it was not the him about it. I sent him-I challenge him Licensmg Commission but the Council that to produce it in the House-a photograph of had c~ntrol_ over the building. He argued Mindham Park in the wet season, showing t~e pomt With them for a wlrile. They took it as a huge swamp seven feet deep in water. him to court and had him fined and ordered I also sent him a Press cutting from "The to pull down the wooden louvres and the Townsville Daily Bulletin" in which Alder­ c~sements from his side veranda, which he man Molloy, the Chairman of the Parks and did. _A few months later he apparently made Reserves Committee of the Townsville City the r;ght approach to the Council through Council, in excusing the Council's failure the nght person because he got permission to provide toilet facilities at Mindham Park and. the casements and louvres are back for the junior Rugby League players said, agam-after the Council took him to law "This is not a park. It is part of the town and compelled him to pull them down! drainage scheme. But in dry weather it can be used, and in fact it is used, as a M_r •. &~nett: Was there any change in recreational area." Mindham Park is bounded admm1stratwn between the time when he was on its four sides by Charters Towers Road, told to pull them down and tl1e time when Townsend Street, Mears Street, and Balls he was given permission to put them back? Lane. At Clayfield that would be spelt "Borlz". There is abundant access from the four sides of this swamp, and there is no Mr. AIKENS: He had to pull them down. reason at all why the Council should want The Court ordered him to pull them down these three extra allotments for access. We and then later on, for some reason that has all know what is going to happen. After the not yet been disclosed, the Council let him land has been resumed-and the Chun Ties put them up. are apparently tied up by the manner i_n which it is to be resumed, under the Pubhc Mr. Ramsden: He has the permission of Works Land Resumption Act-the Council the Council? will then decide that it does not need the allotments any longer for access to Mindham ~· AIKENS: Definitely, but how did h~ Park, and will sell them to some of their get It on the second occasion when he could business or personal friends who may be not get it on the first? Mind you, it is a interested in buying them as business sites contravention of the Townsville City Council or for residential purposes. by-laws for those wooden casements and Mr. Bennett: Is it leasehold or freehold louvres to be there. He could not get per­ land? mission to put them up in the first place; he was taken to law and compelled to take Mr. AIKENS: I think it is freehold. Most them down but since then he has got per­ of the land in the area is freehold, and I mission to break the by-laws. would have a little bet that it was freehold. Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 775

I shall read the letter from the Minister Mr. Hiley: Carry on. It is to be resumed for Public Lands and Irrigation dated 6 for park purposes. April, 1961. It reads- Mr. AIKENS: "Taking the land for park "Dear Mr. Aikens, purposes." "With further reference to your letter of 23rd January last in which you register Mr. Hiley: It cannot be sold. It is all a a strong protest against the resumption by furphy! the Townsville City Council from Harry Mr. AIKENS: How can they resume land Chun Tie and others of three allotments for access to a park that is not a park? fronting Charters Towers Road for the purpose of providing additional access to Mr. Hiley: That does not matter. The Mindham Park, I desire to inform you that three allotments are resumed for park pur­ the Council's Memorial to His Excellency, poses, and they will be dedicated as such. the Governor in Council seeking the issue Mr. AIKENS: Will that tie it up in per­ of a Proclamation taking the land for petuity? Park purposes has been received. Mr. Hiley: Yes. "After careful consideration of all the factors in this case, it has been decided Mr. AIKENS: If the Treasurer is right in to seek Executive Authority for the issue that I am quite happy about it. I am sure of a Proclamation taking the land in ques­ that the Chun Ties will not mind letting their tion, subdivisions 5 to 7 of resubdivision 2 land be resumed for park purposes. of subdivision 9 of section 8 of portion 2A, parish of Coonambelah, for Public Park An Opposition Member: You have been purposes under the provisions of The wasting our time. Local Government Acts and The Public Mr. AIKENS: I have not wasted the Com­ Works Land Resumption Acts and action mittee's time. The hon. member has been in in this regard is now being taken. the House long enough to know-1 do not "Yours faithfully, want to embarrass you, Mr. Taylor, so I will "Alan Fletcher, content myself by saying that time has always "Minister for Public Lands vindicated me. Never once have I been and Irrigation." proved to be wrong. Although what I am about to tell the Com­ They are taking the three allotments for mittee does not exist at the present time what access to a park that the chairman of the can we do about matters like this? Not long Parks and Reserves Committee has publicly ago the Townsville City Council emplor,ed .a said is not a park but is part of the town city architect about whom theY: smd, T~Is drainage scheme. I really believe that in chap is not getting a salary suffiCient to mam­ this matter the Minister for Public Lands tain him in the comfort and splendour to has been a rogue or a fool, and I could not which he has been accustomed, so we will be any blunter than that. grant him the right of private practice as an architect." At that time he was getting about The CHAIRMAN: Order! I will not allow £1,700 a year. It was not long bef~re the the hon. member to describe the Minister wise boys woke up to the fact that If they for Public Lands as a rogue. It is an wanted to get their building approvals unparliamentary expression, and I ask him to through quickly the easiest way was to withdraw it. employ the city architect in his priv~te capacity. When they employed the cit_Y Mr. AIKENS: Very well, I shall with­ architect in his private capacity as an archi­ draw it. But I repeat that I sent him the tect he would draw up plans for them. His Press statement made by Alderman Molloy; own plans would be submitted to himself as I sent him a photograph of the park showing city architect. He would charge the prospec­ it seven feet under water; I sent him a long tive builder or the owner the prescnbed fee letter explaining the whole of the circum­ for himself, as the city architect, to examine stances-that it was not a park, and that them. He would pass his own plans and,. of there was abundant access to the swamp as course the plans would go through qmck it is. Despite all that, for some reason smart.' They had to pay a Council inspection known only to himself, the Minister agreed fee to the city architect to inspect and pass to resume the three allotments in Charters his own plans that he had drawn up as a Towers Road for access to a park that private architect. Many pe_ople. were ~arced does not exist. to go to the city architect m his capacity as an architect in private practice in order to Mr. Hiley: Quite clearly from that letter get their jobs passed quickly. I want to be that land is to be resumed for park purposes. fair and say that it does not go on t~day. If it is resumed for park purposes and There was such a public howl ab<;mt It .m dedicated as such the local authority has no Townsville that even the Townsv!lle City power of sale. Council were not game to perpetuate it. Mr. AIKENS: It says here, "For the pur­ Mr. Duggan: Apparently the relations pose of providing additional access to Mind­ between yourself and the City Council are not ham Park." particularly cordial. 776 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. AIKENS: Personally they are nice Townley in the Foley land case, to put it in fellows! I am not criticising them or con­ simple terms, it means that Justice Townley demning them. As a matter of fact I am -I can be put right on this because I do not merely pointing out what can be done by a wish to misquote anybody or to be in any Council with no right of redress given to the way under a misapprehension-ruled that citizen. That is the point I am trying to Tom Foley was guilty of corrupt practices make. If the citizen feels he has been because he did something for some Crown aggrieved in not getting something for which lessees that he would not do for other Crown he applied, and somebody else gets it, there lessees. There was no question of money is no body or authority to whom he can go. being passed or any consideration being He must grin and bear it, if it is possible for given. But, just because, in Justice Townley's him to grin. opinion, Tom Foley as Minister for Lands I am sure there is a big file in the Govern­ discriminated between one Crown lessee and ment offices about the matter I am going to another, he was adjudged to be guilty of mention, because I have a big file on it my­ corrupt practices. self. Two houses at the corner of Blackwood Street and Walker Street in Townsville were Mr. Hughes: I think you are wrong there. to be resumed by the Townville City Council for the purpose of cutting a corner from Mr. AIKENS: If the hon. member for Blackwood Street into Walker Street, just at South Brisbane had said that I was wrong I the commencement of Castle Hill. They said would pay some attention to it. it would be cheaper to resume the two allot­ Mr. Bennett: I have said that you are not ments and sell the houses for removal and to put the road round that way than it would right. be to cut a small cutting on the other side Mr. AIKENS: If I am not I will be happy of the road. I appealed several times against to hear a simple version of it. I have read the resumption but the Council were adamant that judgment and I have placed my own that they were going to resume the two allot­ simple layman's legal interpretation on it. I ments and pull down the two houses. One of have cited cases and I think I have proved the houses was owned by a man named enough. I am sure that every hon. member Hodlofs-I can still remember the name. of this Assembly could stand up and cite Then a whisper got around that only part of cases in his own local authority area in which the two allotments would be used for the aldermen or the council have been guilty of purpose of road-widening and that the rest discriminating between one ratepayer and would be used for a service-station site. When that hit the headlines-and I would another and between one citizen and another. not like to say I played any part in the dis­ Mr. Hughes: Errors of judgment. semination of it-the Council withdrew the resumption and cut into the side of the hill Mr. AIKENS: The hon. member for to widen Walker Street, something we had Kurilpa has now adopted medical phrase­ been suggesting right from the start. The ology. When they bury their patients it is Minister suggested, "That has been resumed just an error of judgment. I speak just as an for road-widening purposes; we cannot do ordinary citizen representing ordinary people anything." But it did not take the Council and I believe-and I recommend to the long to cancel that resumption when the heat Minister for Public Works and Local Govern­ was applied to them. ment and to the very astute Treasurer-that Mr. Bennett: What has this to do with the we should give consideration to the establish­ Budget? ment of some board or authority to which the average person can go provided he can Mr. AIKENS: It has quite a lot to do with prove discrimination. the Budget, because the Budget, by tradition, quite rightly provides an opportunity for I agree with the Treasurer that only in the every member to deal with matters that most extraordinary circumstances should vitally affect the people he represents. It has there be any interference by the Government to do with the Budget, because in the Budget with the operations of the local authority. provision is made for the Department of Here I have presented cases to show that Public Works. The Minister for Public Works citizens are being discriminated against and and Local Government has done me the there is not any organisation, body or person courtesy of coming into the Chamber deliber­ to whom they can go. If they apply for ately to listen to my remarks. It is a matter something that is not in accordance with the with which he will have to deal. It is a by-laws, then they should be rejected. But, matter with which everyone will have to deal. they have no redress at law or through any other source, if they find that someone else However, that is not a sore point. I am has been granted something that they have not a legal man and I pray God I never will been refused. There is still no redress for be. I am a layman and my knowledge of the them because they cannot go to law unless law is naturally a layman's knowledge of the they themselves have been victimised by the law-and that does not mean that I do not Council within the law. know more about the law than some men who earn a very good living from it-but, as Mr. Hughes: It is in their own hands to I read the judgment given by Mr. Justice set up their own appeal committee. Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 777

Mr. AIKENS: In their own hands? Mr. AIKENS: The Ipswich City Council asked for it and was told it could not be Mr. Hughes: Yes. We did it in Brisbane. done. Mr. AIKENS: Even if it was done in Mr. Richter: I do not say it could not be Brisbane, it is very problematical that it done. will be done by other local authorities or the Townsville City Council. It should be Mr. AIKENS: I was told it could not be prescribed by statute law that the local done. I ask the Minister to have a look authority will do that, and, as the Minister at it. I know he is only a fledgeling in for Public Works is present, I suggest that ministerial duties, but this is something he he should remove that little bit of legislative could look at. Why cannot big provincial smart Alecism contained in the Local cities enjoy at least the same democratic Government Act, which we were told would processes enjoyed in Brisbane? give local authorities the right to be divided Mr. Richter: The Ipswich City Council on a State electoral basis, that big provincial did not ask that the city be divided according towns, for instance, would be divided for to electoral boundaries. municipal voting purposes on the State elec­ toral basis. But when we applied for it we Mr. AIKENS: Then why was it not done? were told it could not possibly be done except by some little bit of legislative leger­ Mr. Richter: They did not ask for it. demain. I think Townsville should be Mr. AIKENS: They did not ask for it! divided into Townsville North and Townsville I was informed they did, when I asked a South, that Toowoomba should be divided question in the House. If the Minister likes into Toowoomba East and Toowoomba West, to have a talk to me about it, I feel sure Rockhampton into Rockhampton North and I could enlarge considerably his knowledge Rockhampton South and Ipswich in the same of local government procedure and local way, that is, according to the State electoral government law. I would be very happy basis. to tell him why it should be done. Mr. Richter: Why? Mr. Richter: They did not ask for it. Mr. AIKENS: Tell me why not. When You are talking through your hat. the legislation was introduced Government Mr. AIKENS: Who can ask for it? members came to me and said, "This is a good thing, Tom. We are going to divide Mr. Richter: The Council can ask for it the big provincial cities in the same way but it did not. as we have divided Brisbane, according to the State electoral boundaries. We are going Mr. HEWITT (Mackenzie) (4.34 p.m.): to divide big provincial cities into two Once again the hon. member for Townsville wards." When I asked the Minister a South has maintained his reputation as a question about it, he replied in a long political orator. He reminds me very much rigmarole telling me it could not be done. of a political centipede. He has a leg in everything and when pinned down he runs Mr. Richter: It could be done, but why to his burrow. do you want to do it? The Budget is very different from many Mr. AIKENS: Because we want the same presented by the previous Administration. treatment as Brisbane. We live in the The Government are facing up to many country, the part of Queensland that produces problems that have caused concern over the its wealth. Why should Brisbane be divided years.. I refer. in. particular to the betting on a State electoral basis for voting purposes and liquor leg1slat10n to be considered this and not Townsville, Rockhampton, Ipswich session. The Government, in that legislation and Toowoomba? What argument is there are merely legalising something that has bee~ against it? done for many years. Therefore I have no hesitation in saying where I stand on Mr. Richter: I have no argument for it. these matters because I know from practical ~XJ?erience, h~ving travelled Queensland, that Mr. AIKENS: Then why does not the 1t 1s a necess1ty, and the Government should Minister bring it in? get their reward for introducing it. It would Mr. Richter: I have no argument for it. afford better facilities for the people in the country areas. Mr. AIKENS: The Minister has no thought about it. He did not even know about it Mr. Bennett interjected. until I brought it to his notice. He says Mr. HEWIIT: I am here today deeply there is no argument for it. Then why make concerned with things that concern the Gov­ provision for it in a Bill amending the Local ernment and not be sidetracked by irrelevant Government Act? Having made provision arguments. I am here to speak particularly for it, the Government hedge it round with about the development of the brigalow lands all the restrictions in the world, to make it o_f the State. As hon. members know, ever impossible. smce I have been in this Assembly, I have Mr. Richter: Has the Townsville City been a keen advocate of closer settlement Council asked for it? particularly in the brigalow belt. This i~ 778 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply an area of country stretching from Collins­ dip, &c., £1,800 and, say, two surface water vil!e in the north to the New South Wales improvements of 8,000 and 6,000 yards, border, with a total area of about 23,000,000 costing about £2,500. In all that would acres. No more than 7,000,000 to 8,000,000 mean an expenditure of £19,200. That is acres have been touched; the balance, virtu­ roughly what would be required by a young ally in its virgin state, represents the greatest settler or anyone fortunate enough to win potential for land development in the State. a brigalow block in one of the most favoured I am not frightened to take the Common­ parts of the State. Not many people around wealth Government to task on this matter the country today have that amount of because I believe that the development of money in their pockets. To put such a this area is in the national interest as well scheme into operation it is very important as in the interest of the State. This scheme that the Commonwealth Government should is worthwhile. I know that the Government come into it. When all is said and done, and the Minister for Public Lands are fully the Commonwealth have not played a big conscious of the needs of the area. New part in any rural land development in settlers must be given every opportunity in Queensland since World War II. as shown the early stages to settle in the brigalow by the following figures taken from the belt. It is therefore my considered opinion 1960 Commonwealth Year Book of a dis­ that we must have either a pre-develop­ section of Commonwealth expenditure on mental scheme, or money made readily avail­ land settlement from World War II. up able for brigalow land to be opened up to 30 June, 1960. Advances to the States in living areas. The matter of taxation must have been as follows:- be closely watched in any scheme. Where a £ settler uses his own money to delevop a New South Wales 6,729,712 property it is allowed as a taxable Victoria 10,985,014 deduction, whereas, if it is developed under South Australia 22,048,177 a pre-developmental scheme and repaid over Tasmania 16,375,961 a number of years he may find himself in Western Australia 34,747,246 a very difficult position. I appeal to the Queensland 376,614 Commonwealth Government to look at this side of the problem should they decide to So of a total expenditure of about make any money available to the State for £91,000,000 Queensland has received less pre-developmental work. It is very important than £380,000 or less than .4 per cent. to the settler. I have had some experience Although perhaps the Commonwealth on the land, plus financial experience gained Government are not entirely to blame in through my years of employment with a wool­ the matter, it is up to them now to realise braking firm and I know that in the early years that Queensland has lagged far behind a settler either makes good or fails. This is through lack of funds. We all realise that a very important phase of any pre-develop­ Queensland is the envy of our northern mental scheme. If the finance can be made neighbours and the Commonwealth should available through the Development Bank keep always in the back of their mind the perhaps that is the answer, but it would very great need to develop the State. have to be readily available to that the This Government are fully conscious of settler could get his land into production. It the importance of the matter. They have will cost a large sum of money to develop put up the scheme and I am here today the brigalow belt so as to ensure an early urging it only because I know it is vital. income. Sir William Payne stated in his It disheartens me to read in the paper, as report that at least 5,000 acres of brigalow I did the other day, that a Federal hon. land is :required for a living area where member had a great deal to say about new markets are readily available. It should States. The very same hon. member not embrace at least 500 acres of good agricul­ so long ago at Longreach said he believed tural land capable of being worked that the Fitzroy basin was capable of sup­ economically so that the settler will not be porting 10,000,000 people. If he feels that compelled to buy expensive machinery and way-and all this brigalow land, or a good so find himself in difficulties later on. In deal of it, is in the Fitzroy basin-he other words, if you are going to spend should get up in the Federal House on all money on machinery you must have readily occasions and be outspoken on our behalf. available agricultural land. I have also discussed the matter with the Let me give the Committee some idea Postmaster-General, Mr. Davidson, who of what to my mind it would take to develop represents some of this area. Although a 5,000-acre block, taking it on the basis these men have been sympathetic, I believe of 3,000 acres of scrub land and 2,000 acres that they must be forceful in their rep­ of forest country. The 3,000 acres of scrub resentations in the Federal House if Queens­ land would cost approximately £3 an acre land is to get what she is entitled to. In to pull and grass, a total of £9,000. To "The Courier-Mail" yesterday we read that ringbark 1,500 acres of the 2,000 at 12s. more money was being made available for an acre would cost a further £900. To the Snowy River scheme, which will be of ~ut under cultivation 500 acres would cost great benefit to New South Wales and a further £3 an acre and would mean there­ Victoria. We do not begrudge those States fore a further expenditure of £1,500. Take that money, but Queensland is lagging far house and outbuildings at £3,500, yards and behind them in development and it is our Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 779 duty at all times to bring home to members too small. This has been followed by a of the Federal Parliament, irrespective of hue and cry for additional areas. The their political colour, the very great need demand for additional areas has been one for development in Queensland. of the biggest bugbears of the Government over recent years, a problem that has been In relation to land settlement, I have caused by incompetency within the depart­ always supported, and always will support, ment. Problems have been caused by the the policy of closer settlement. However, creation of large aggregations of free­ it must always be undertaken on a common­ hold land in various districts. The area sense basis of what will provide a good becomes far too large to be repurchased by living in an average season, plus a margin the Government, and the development of of 20 to 25 per cent. as a buffer against the district is held back. dry years or a recession in prices. We know that both these things occur, and they should I have already said that there is plenty always be kept in mind by persons in of room in Queensland for both the big and authority. small man. Common sense must be used in all land settlement. Any large firm or Only recently I had the oppor­ person big enough to own and develop tunity of travelling through the briga­ property in the far distant parts of the State low area with the Agriculture and should be given the opportunity to purchase Food Committee, which is composed of a reasonable area of brigalow land or many Federal Parliamentarians. I believe country suitable for fattening within the that they left the district agreeably surprised closer areas, so that he can market his with its potential, and I hope that members cattle as fats at a later stage. We must of the Committee will keep pressing for its realise that we cannot develop a State with­ development. They stated at a public meet­ out both the big and small settler. Both ing that I attended in Biloela that they had have played their part in the past. We seen no area with greater potential and no must realise that only the large firms and area that was as suitable for more or safer the people who command a great amount closer settlement. That was their view at of capital can develop the remote portions that time. I hope they will remember it of the State. Therefore I urge the Govern­ when they return to Canberra and that they ment to continue to press their claims for will expound it at every opportunity. On recognition of their desire for closer settle­ this trip I gave them the opportunity of ment. Closer settlement can only be brought having with them John Letchford, who was about should enough money be made avail­ the best junior farmer in Queensland in one able for development within the areas that year and who has been most successful as lend themselves to development. We cannot a farmer in the Dawson Valley. He gave afford to let Queensland continue the way members of the Committee his considered it is going now. We either must make views and no doubt enlightened them on money available from our own resources or many questions. give the opportunity to private enterprise, but I urge the latter policy only in a When the Minister visited the district case of more or less desperation. We recently, the Grain Growers' Committee met must at all times look for development. him and expressed views about land settle­ ment in the Dawson Valley area. I am Mr. Davies: Don't you think the best not going to say that my considered opinion thing to do would be to change the Com­ is that they are absolutely correct, because, monwealth Government and give the Labour no matter what committee is appointed, one Party a chance? finds that there is usually a divergence of opinion and that someone wants to get Mr. HEWITT: The hon. member can down to areas that are too small and some­ rest assured that the present Commonwealth one wants areas that are far too large. It Government will be back after 9 December. is essential that we have the very best men I am sure that they will be sympathetic to the in the Department of Public Lands and we scheme I have expounded this afternoon. should be prepared to pay them well. We Labour's record over the years in the Federal must realise that an error in the stroke of sphere has not shown their actions to be a pen could take away the livelihood of altogether advantageous to Queensland. a settler who perhaps has given a lifetime of service to the community and contributed The hon. member for Rockhampton South to the wealth and prosperity of the com­ spoke about the establishment of district munity within which he lives. Therefore abattoirs in the city of Rockhampton. I it is very important that we consider that am not going to expound at length my views aspect at all times. We have seen over the about it. I should like to correct one state­ years of Labour Governments, and perhaps ment in which he said that the cattle in our own time, inconsistencies that are not numbers of Central Queensland had not in the best interests of Queensland. Each increased. Let us look at the position. I and every settler in the State is entitled to spent many years in the agency calling and complete justice. In some districts the I have probably contributed more than the areas have been far too large, which will average person to the development of this be borne out by local residents. Again other area. I do not want to pat myself on the districts have been cut up into areas far back but I think most people in the area 780 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

will concede that I played my part in open­ There were 6,000 acres of scrub still stand­ ing up auction-selling centres in the Dawson ing on the property and no developmental Valley and Blackwater districts. The hon. work had been undertaken. The farming member has been somewhat misled in making area was completely flooded. In one year his statement. Although there may not be the total crop was washed away on three a great many more cattle there now, never­ occasions. After I made an inspection with theless it is true to say that the cattle that the Minister for Health and Home Affairs, used to be sold in Eidsvold and other Mr. McCormack, the Under Secretary, places for fattening on the Brisbane Department of Health and Home Affairs, River are now retained in the Rockhampton and Mr. O'Leary the Director of Native district and are available to the meatworks Affairs, we decided that something had to within that area. be done. On 29 August I was requested Mr. Bromley interjected. to make an inspection of the property and found it in the deplorable condition I have Mr. HEWITT: I think every hon. mem­ mentioned. Cabinet appointed me to the ber of this House knows where I stand. position of Cattle Adviser to Foleyvale and I have never been one to go back on my Woorabinda, and I shall give some figures ground. If the hon. member will only go to show what has been done. Mr. Shanahan through "Hansard" he will see where I was appointed Superintendent of Foleyvale stand. We have within 150 miles in May, 1959, and in the 2! years since of Rockhampton two-fifths of the cattle his appointment-my first inspection was in Queensland with the greatest potential made only three years ago-a great num­ for an abattoir of any district in this State. ber of improvements have been carried out. I will not take the matter any further Dr. Noble: It is one of the show places than that. of the State. Mr. Bromley: You are not game. Mr. HEWITT: It is not all I should like Mr. HEWITT: The hon. member says it to be, but I am determined it will eventu­ I am not game, but my reply is that the ally be one of the show places of the contributions by hon. members opposite over State. We have erected the boundary fences the years have been very poor. I and have pulled all the scrub on this pro­ have drawn attention on many occasions perty of 27,000 acres, of which approxi­ to their actions as a Government. mately 7,000 acres is scrub land, the balance They should keep out of anything being forest land with an area of good that has to do with land matters. On coolibah fiats, which tend to a sucker numerous occasions I have cited what hap­ regrowth menace. By November, 1959, the pened at Croydon, of course, before the scrub areas of Foleyvale had been sur­ hon. member's time, when over 360 square veyed and by January, 1960, 5,548 acres miles of country was granted on a new of scrub had been pulled and certified by lease without any resumption rights during a Main Roads supervisor as a satisfactory the first 15 years of the lease. job, and had been burnt and planted by aerial seeding with Rhodes grass and green The Labour Government did a great dis­ panic. A further 500 acres of cultivation service to the people of Central Queens­ which had been previously in the McKenzie land and Rockhampton. All I am doing River flood area was abandoned and planted today is trying to right some of these things. with similar grasses. Prior to and following I am even prepared to attack the Common­ the abandonment of the old cultivation area, wealth Government on the score that they an area of approximately 300 acres free have not played their part and I will not from flooding has been put under crop for be sidetracked by interjections by the hon. peanuts, sorghum and cotton. We set out member for Norman. to make sure that the property had adequate Mr. Bromley: You are trying to cover water. Today we have 30,000 cubic yards up the defects of your own Government. of surface water and one of the dams in the house and dip-yards area has a depth Mr. HEWITT: Our record surpasses any­ of 16 feet, backing up 600 yards. We have thing that the Labour Government ever taken care of the water position and no did. The establishment of an abattoirs in longer have any cause for worry in that Rockhampton has been an important mat­ respect. ter for years but the Labour Government did nothing about it. Further, we looked at the employment side. Although many natives were employed I did not intend at this stage to touch there, little, if any, useful work was being on the previous Government's record but as done. Even with the great labour force I have been drawn into it I shall do so now. at Woorabinda, the previous Government After our election to office in 1957 I could not fence the boundary. The property inspected a property owned by this Govern­ was purchased in 1946 and that was the ment and controlled by the Department of position 12 years later, in 1958. What a Native Affairs for the benefit of the great effort by people who now attack the aboriginals of this State. It had been Government on their land policy. They Government property ever since 1946 but could not even set an example. They had even the boundaries were not fenced. an opportunity to do it but did not take Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 781 advantage of the opportunity. If anyone that we would have a bangtail muster. After should be a good tenant of the land, it police checks, what did we find? At Woora­ should be the Government, especially when binda we found an unaccounted stock loss they have the labour resources and expanse of 384 head and at Foleyvale 114 head. The of land they had at Woorabinda. There first year under new management at Foley­ were 40 men working on Foleyvale and vale the unaccounted losses were seven head today we have an average of 20 to 30 and the second year 17. Woorabinda has men doing the same amount of work. We now come back from 384 to 59 head. Surely have been able to reduce the working staff. that is an indictment of previous Govern­ ments whose members have been so vocal in Mr. Dufficy: Reducing the working staff charging us with not being interested in is an every-day experience with this Govern­ developing the State. ment. I further suggest that we as a Government Mr. HEWIIT: The hon. member for should keep in mind the very great need to Warrego does not care whether they work acquire another property within that area or not. Whether they work or not the State for the growing of young cattle from Woora­ will carry them. That is his attitude. binda. To my mind Foleyvale today has Let us look at the revenue. We must become far too valuable a property for the remember that the State is responsible for growing of young stock. Therefore, if the the aboriginals at Woorabinda and Foleyvale settlement could have made available to it in all circumstances, With the assistance of a further property that would run some­ the department we have been able to change where about 1,500 young cattle, its prob­ a pretty dismal picture into something fairly lems would be solved. Moreover, that would worthwhile. The revenue during the year do much to increase the figures we have been prior to my taking an interest in Foleyvale able to show this afternoon. was £9,104. During the first year that I Brian Shanahan as manager of Foleyvale was interested in it the revenue increased to has taken the same interest in it as anyone £31,595, in the next year it was £30,451, else would in the running of a private and even after the very bad year we have property. That is something we as a Govern­ just experienced it is in the vicinity of £26,000. ment should always encourage. We should Surely that gives some sound indication give every possible assistance to these men of what has taken place. We have many who are prepared to give of their time bullocks now ready for market. We willingly. What is more, we can see have held them over so as to get a better from results that it is well worth while price for them; our only concern is to get in the long run. To all who have the best possible price. Cabinet has agreed been concerned in the improvement and to a new re-stocking programme for this development of these properties I say, 'Thank property; we have done away with much you." It has been a pleasure to me to of the red tape which, I believe, was a menace work with them because I derive a good to the previous administration. We cannot deal of personal satisfaction from doing it altogether blame the people on the property. and, although at times it has been a great Mr. Naggs managed both Foleyvale and inconvenience, nevertheless I assure the Woorabinda and he was also responsible for Minister and other hon. members that I the native settlements. We have put Mr. will always work to the very best of my Shanahan in charge of Foleyvale and the Director of Native Affairs has called applica­ ability. I will be able to look back and tions for a cattle manager at Woorabinda remember the assistance that has been given to ensure the same sort of development there. to me by the Minister in the first place, Mr. Naggs will now become the superintend­ by Kev. McCormack, Con O'Leary and Lloyd ent of Woorabinda mission settlement only. McDonald. They have all played their part Although we have been charged with not and without their assistance the job would being interested in employment we are now have been much more difficult. employing two additional men who are I have spoken about aboriginals and shown directly responsible for running their own my particular interest in them but I am properties. The purchasing system has forced now to talk on another aspect that been changed too. Eighty-five head concerns me. We have heard it said in the of cattle have been procured at a cost Chamber that there is no difficulty about of £3,425 10s. for Foleyvale. The assimilating aboriginals in the community. net return today is £4,029 which gives Those who say that cannot be fully con­ approximately £620 profit. We have a further versant with the facts. I have lived amongst 12 head to sell which should net another aboriginals and I believe I have a very good £540. All in all, I believe that the Govern­ knowledge of their outlook. I can tell at ment are doing a great deal to show the first hand some of my experiences in dealing people of Queensland that these State enter­ with them. It has been the very definite prises can be run well. policy of this Government to help wherever The hon. member for Maryborough has possible. The heads of the mission settle­ interjected again. I do not wish to keep ments, too, have endeavoured to get shooting him down, but now that he has aboriginals out into the community immedi­ come into the argument, let us have a further ately they think they are fitted for it. I look at these properties. When I stirred have tried to help them when they have left up the laxity on the properties it was decided the settlements, but I think I am duty bound 782 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

to say that on most occasions I have been people would meet their responsibilities and very disappointed. I believe that they are, do the right thing by the people who gave with few exceptions, not yet really fitted to them such conditions. I do not say this leave the settlements, unless they go to an idly, because when three families were area where people are particularly keen to released from the aboriginal settlement at look after their interests and to try to help Woorabinda I made it my business to obtain them along the right road. three Housing Commission homes for them. In a few weeks virtually every window in Dr. Noble: That is why we need all the the homes was broken and the houses were extra money from the Commonwealth to in a disgusting condition. It is a most assist us in that field. difficult position for any Government to face Mr. HEWITT: That is true. We all realise up to, but it is our responsibility. Whenever that these people are very susceptible to any scheme can be initiated for the advan­ drink, which is usually readily available to tage of these people the Committee can rest assured that my fullest support will be them. forthcoming. Money seems to mean nothing Mr. Davies: And will be more readily to most of the coloured people. Even though available after the Liquor Acts Amendment various members of a family might be Bill goes through. earning big money I have seen them Jiving in bits of shacks without even a Mr. HEWITT: If the hon. memb~r for decent table or bed. Inadequate sanitation Maryborough knew anything ab~:mt It, he is a real menace that is posing problems would realise that they can get liquor now. for many shire councils. The Banana Shire There are always people willing to supply is faced with that problem near the township it. As the Minister for Health and Home of Theodore. It is not easy for any member Affairs says the hon. member for Mary­ of Parliament to have to speak along these borough voted for the introduction of the lines, but they are facts that we cannot Bill. be blind to. Mr. Davies: I only voted for its intro­ Mr. Tucker: How do you think we should duction so that it could be printed and we tackle the problem? could read it. Mr. HEWITT: I have made one suggestion Mr. HEWITT: I have a genuine regard about housing. If any hon. member on either for the aboriginal people and have done side has any constructive suggestions to offer everything possible to assist them. If hon. I shall be right behind him. It is not a matter members went amongst them, they would to be used as a political football but one that tell them that I have played my part in should be the concern of all political parties. endeavouring to give them a better under­ It is an urgent problem facing the State, one standing of their responsibilities. As I said that is getting worse every day. I am sure earlier, when they are with !heir many friends that many hon. members are faced with a they are susceptible to dnnk, and. the next similar position in their electorates. thing one finds is that they are m trouble and in the lock-up. This is a serious problem In conclusion I again congratulate the for members of all political parties, and it Treasurer on his initiative and courage in always will be a problem until we can get facing up to the many difficult problems that more people to take an interest in the affairs have been dodged for so long by Labour of aboriginals. Governments. In Eidsvold, where I lived for nine years, Mr. WALLACE (Cairns) (5.22 p.m.): I there was a Pastor Frost, who spent most commend the hon. member for Mackenzie of his time endeavouring to help these people. for his effort to expose the Federal Govern­ He gave religious instruction every Sunday ment's gross neglect of Queensland. I know to their children, and he also tried to that many hon. members opposite think as instill into them the need to be more stable. the hon. member for Mackenzie thinks, that He is a man for whom I have the the Federal Government have given and are highest regard who has given his time giving Queensland a rotten spin, but they unselfishly. Eidsvold is one town in Queens­ land where I believe that the Government have not got the courage to stand on their could perhaps establish a small housing feet and say so. Although the hon. member scheme for aboriginals. Such a scheme for Mackenzie has done his best to expose would be recommended by me only if it the Federal Government he has indicated that were under the careful supervision of a he would not be prepared, as the rest of the local committee. I realise that there hon. members on the Government side would is no possibility of having a housing scheme not be prepared, to go on the stump at for our aboriginal population other than the election time and urge the defeat of the few who are very stable. There are a few Menzies Government in the best interests of in my electorate for whom I have the highest Queensland. That is very much to be regard, who have many good qualities, and regretted because despite what hon. members who are as stable as any of us, but unfor­ opposite might say here, they know full well tunately their numbers are limited. The that the best days of Australia and Australian housing scheme must be supervised by a citizens were under Labour Governments. local committee, and I am sure that these They cannot deny that. Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 783

Had the Minister for Health and Home There are very strong indications that Affairs desired to have his Estimates debated the Government are deeply conscious of this session we should have been glad of the their failure. There is every reason to opportunity to discuss the aboriginal question believe that both this and the national at length. In the course of the present debate Government are preparing the people of there are many other important phases of Australia, and particularly of Queensland, government to be discussed by hon. members for a set of conditions such as obtained on this side. Had the Estimates of the Depart­ earlier this century-in the years from 1929 ment of Health and Home Affairs been onwards. The conditions at that time were debated we could have left any reference to brought about deliberately by Tory Govern­ the aboriginal question to a later date when ments, acting on the advice of their financial we would have had the opportunity to speak advisers, as a cure-all for the ills of the for 45 minutes or an hour on the subject. State and the nation. It is very glaringly The work of the Department of Native demonstrated at the moment that the policy Affairs is much too valuable to be disposed now being followed by this Government and of in just a few minutes. I think it could not their counterpart in the national sphere will be properly dealt with in anything under most assuredly add to the army of 45 minutes to one hour. In view of what unemployed, especially in this State, which, has been happening to aboriginal people in in the long run, will bring the State to various parts of the State it is to be regretted economic chaos. I challenge the Premier that the Estimates are not to be debated this and his Government to prove to the people year. of Queensland, particularly those in the Far North, that the Budget gives any indication of Dr. Noble: My Estimates were debated last a return to the prosperity that obtained under year and they will be debated again next year. the wise and prudent administration of the Labour Government. Much has been said by Mr. W ALLACE: Much has happened since Federal members and hon. members of the last year and the Minister, in his own Queensland Government about the interest, and that of the aboriginal people, stupendous potential of Far North Queens­ would have been well advised to have his land, but to date we have not heard of or Estimates debated again this year while seen any move to harness that potential. We things are hot and while we can deal with of the Australian Labour Party with the them. We would, perhaps, have gone a long people of Far North Queensland are and way towards solving many of the existing have been fully seized of the tremendous serious problems. I have very strong views on potential, and we are fed to the teeth with the matter, but I am not prepared at any the snivelling drivel emanating from the time to speak on it for only 10 or 15 Queensland and Federal Governments about minutes. what is to be done to improve conditions and By moving his amendment the Leader of harness the potential of Far North Queens­ the Opposition has again quite rightly land. directed the spotlight of public opinion on to the failure of the Government to indicate We desire strong and positive action by in the Financial Statement any strong or the Government to rehabilitate Queensland positive measures for the rehabilitation of to the prosperous and progressive stage it the State and particularly as affects the far had reached under Labour administrations. northern part of the State, the most valuable Since the advent of the Government we have and most vulnerable part of it. witnessed a slow but sure deterioration both I strongly support my leader. Indeed, in population and in industry, and it is evident I congratulate him and my colleagues that the Government's policy for Far North who have come into the debate so far. They Queensland is one of complete destruction. have made excellent contributions. As a A Government Member interjected. matter of fact, there is not any doubt that the Government and the Treasurer have been Mr. WALLACE: For the information of sorely embarrassed by some of the matters the hon. member who has just mentioned put up by members on this side. "The Cairns Post" I point out that unlike The Leader of the Opposition very aptly the hon. members for Mulgrave and Table­ described the Budget as a booze and betting lands, I very seldom get my name in "The budget. It appears to me that, having Cairns Post," although I claim that my contri­ dissipated the finances of the State, the butions are as important and as good as Government were at their wits' end to get a theirs. "The Cairns Post," at least in the few extra pounds and so they decided that last 18 months, has published very little of it would be wise, in the face of very strong what I have said in this Chamber, although pressure brought to bear on them by their my remarks about the policy of the Govern­ monopolistic supporters, to further tax the ment as it affects Far North Queensland are people of Queensland least able to bear it. absolutely correct. I have been a resident They have indicated in no uncertain manner of the area for very many years. Conditions that their policy is to take from the already there at the present time are closer to the depleted wage packet of the worker the conditions that obtained in the depression additional funds necessary to enable the than they have been at any time in the State to survive without any progress. last 30 years. They are getting quickly to 784 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply the stage that obtained then, when people Bacon & Davies, recently advised the Minister had to camp on the banks of rivers and on for Transport to close the railway workshops the foreshores of Cairns. During the week at Cairns. It was no surprise to me, because before last I went to Mareeba to interview every time I spoke from the public platform some tobacco growers. On my return trip during the last election campaign I told the I called on a farmer who has his house on people of Cairns and district that it was the the banks of the river. The wife of the intention of the Government to close the tobacco grower said to me, "Look over the workshops at Cairns. A senior Minister of bank." To my amazement I saw not one the Government intimated very strongly in but a considerable number of persons who Townsville that his Government would wrap were living on the bank of the river without up the railway workshops in very small any shelter. Many people are camping on parcels, that it was not their policy to have the the foreshores of Cairns. railway workshops brought to a standard to Mr. Armstrong: Would you believe me handle dieselisation 100 per cent. It would if I told you that the Chairman of the be their policy to farm out the repair work Herberton Shire told me only a few days bn diesels, and other rolling stock, to private ago that he could not get men? factories. The moment they came into power they set out to destroy the workshops and Mr. WALLACE: I would not believe the its work forces; they sold some of the hon. member when he makes statements like finest machinery in the State to private enter­ that, because hundreds of men are available prise. I will have something further to say for work in North Queensland. It could about that later on. To say that the people of well mean that the same thing is happening Cairns and the hinterland are incensed at the now as occurred during the depression when, proposal is a gross misrepresentation of the under another Tory Government, the men truth. Every section of the community, were asked to move 20, 30, or 40 miles from irrespective of political colour, is affected. their place of residence to get perhaps two Public meetings have been held, and protests days work. The Shire Council in Herberton have been sent to the Premier, and they will may want one or two men for one or two continue to come from all organisations days, but who will spend all that money within the area. The people of far-northern going to Herberton for one or two day's Queensland find it very hard to reconcile the work? The hon. member knows that it is suggestion that the workshops in Cairns true that there are hundreds of unemployed should be closed, with the proposals emana­ in Far Northern Queensland, and he has done ting from the Government benches about an nothing to date about getting behind me to expansion of the economy of the area. They try to alleviate the position. view it, as I do, as a retrograde step from which Cairns and the hinterland may possibly Mr. Armstrong: Can you take your mind back a few years? never recover. It has happened before. There are hon. members on this side of the Mr. WALLACE: I can take my mind back Committee who, with myself, have seen the many years, and I repeat that unemployment complete disintegration of sections of far­ conditions in Far Northern Queensland are as northern Queensland. We are very much bad now as they were in 1936, 1937 and afraid that through the actions of this 1938. Government it could happen again. Mr. Armstrong: Do you remember that in How does the Government's proposed those days-- action fit in with the much-talked-of policy of decentralisation of industry? How does it Mr. Windsor: You will make conditions fit in with the obligation of the nation to the bad. railwaymen of Queensland for the outstanding part they played in the prosecution of the Mr. WALLACE: The hon. members who war effort when they were compelled to toil are interjecting are just wasting time because very long'hours to keep the wheels of indu~­ they have nothing constructive to put for­ try turning, in many cases with very .detn­ ward. mental effects on their health? Many railway­ I said previously that I believe the policy men have had to retire early and many have of this Government towards Far Northern died through the exertions of that period. Queensland is completely destructive, and I Where is the Government's appreciation of again say that I believe that to be completely the part played by our people in the true. Going back over the years that this development of Far North Queensland? Government have been in power, we find the Mr. Duggan: I think they hope to see the destruction of the town of Mt. Mulligan, the ranks of Labour reduced in those areas so virtual destruction of the town of Port that tlrey might win seats from them. Douglas, the closing of the Mt. Garnet rail­ way section, the threatened closing of certain Mr. WALLACE: They never will. Without sections of the Chillagoe system, and we doubt the five seats in Far North Queensland must not forget the Collinsville set-up. We will return to the Australian Labour Party come now to a state of affairs that will at the next election. bring added misery and discontent to the people of Far Northern Queensland. An What compensation is likely to be paid to interim report by the American consultants railway people who, through the Govern­ to the Government on railways, Messrs. Ford, ment's vicious action, are forced to leave the Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 785 area and set up home in other parts of the Notwithstanding my feelings about this State? Do Government members imagine matter, I further remind the Premier and that any compensation, if given, would be the Government that many thousands of adequate for the lifelong battle many of those people in Far Northern Queensland fought people have put up to obtain their homes and a great many died in what they believed and rear their families? I assure them that was a fight to retain their heritage-the no compensation would be. Surely those of right to remain free and untrammelled. But our people who have been born and bred we are getting away from that ideal. Despite in the area, or who have elected to reside the dictatorship under which the Govern­ there and rear their families, happy in the ment are functioning, I put it to the Premier knowledge that under Labour administration that he and his Government should be they had some security, are entitled to remain strong enough to repudiate the recommen­ there until death, with security, in the same dation of these overseas advisers, which I congenial surroundings as those that existed believe was not of their own choosing. under Labour. I think the recommendation was put to Ford, Bacon & Davis by some member of the Were the Government conscious of the Government or supporters of the Govern­ knowledge and ability of their own employees ment. they would certainly not have gone to the length of importing an advisory body from Mr. Mann: It was put up by the Minister overseas. There are in the Railway Depart­ for Transport or the Deputy Premier. ment men of outstanding ability fully com­ petent to advise and with the courage and Mr. WALLACE: I am not going to say local know-how to put the railways in a sound the Deputy Premier is to blame, but I am position. I remind the Premier and his certainly going to blame him for something Government that Australia's greatest son to in a few minutes. I have spoken about what date was a railway man. I remind them, is happening in Cairns, and it is far from too, that the deficits of the railways as a good. Despite what some hon. members public utility mean nothing. With the wise from the Far North might say, and despite marshalling of the brains of Railway Depart­ the fact that the sugar and meat seasons ment officials the deficits could reach many have been at their peak, hundreds are unem­ times the record they have reached to date ployed in the Cairns district. One would and the State could still be saved money not expect that to be so with those seasons and prestige. I honestly believe there are at their peak, but the Government have within the ranks of railway employees people done nothing to relieve the unemployment who would put the railways back on a sound in the area. footing and save us money. Queensland, and I wish now to say something about the indeed Australia, was developed by its rail­ position at Mt. Isa. Before giving my own ways. Despite the efforts of this or any opinion, I should like to read from the other Government to destroy the people's October Bulletin of the Printing Industry assets I believe we will in the not far distant Employees' Union of Australia. This article, future return to the railroads as our main which I think sets out the position at Mt. Isa means of transport in every sphere. Despite very clearly, says- what people may say about the failures of the railways I am convinced that, if the right "The Mt. Isa Lock-Out brains are used, we will see the return of "Why are workers locked out at Mt. Isa the days when railways were the main means Mines? Well may one ask such a question, of transport, and particularly heavy transport. as it appears from Press reports that It is futile for anybody to try to tell me their working conditions are good and that that will not be so. One has only to that they receive hefty wage packets each look at what has happened to many of the week. railways in Australia and overseas to realise that they are again coming into their own. "Concerning the claim that working conditions are good and wages in the near­ I remind the Premier, too, that Far millionaire class, forget it! We do not Northern Queensland is a very vital portion think the working conditions of our of the nation, not to be tampered with and members are good, but believe me they dissipated at the whim of some of the are far superior to those of the workers people who are directing and in the process at Mt. Isa." of destroying his Government. I can assure "For instance, our newspaper boys him, as I have done already, that at the receive 4 weeks annual leave and 3 next election the government of Queensland statutory holidays during the year (the will of necessity return to the Australian four weeks is to compensate for working Labour Party. History has repeated itself on statutory holidays without any penalty on many occasions, and it is repeating itself rate). The mine workers do the same now. In Queensland we have reached a and they receive two weeks' leave. state of grave crisis, and on every occasion when a crisis has arisen in the history of "When the mine workers return from Australia it has fallen to the lot of the annual leave they have to re-apply for Australian Labour Party to lift the nation their job--we walk straight to our and the States from the morass into which machine, bench, or frame (depending on they invariably sink under Tory government. our trade calling). 786 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

"Newspaper reports would have you had he been prepared to accept just a believe that weekly payments of £40 and fraction of the very sound advice tendered over are regular; bunkum! The truth is to him by members of the Opposition during that the tradesman out there is on a the debate on the Bill, we most certainly margin of £5 2s. 6d. a week, plus the would not be in the position we are in State Basic Wage of £14 4s., plus the area today of the tail wagging the dog. I believe allowance of £1 12s. 6d., plus the produc­ that the Parliament of Queensland is, and tion bonus of £8. They are the ingredients should be, the supreme legislative body in of his total wage. the State. It can remain so only as long "Thus, the only difference between the as Ministers of the Crown have the political worker's wage in Brisbane and the Mt. capacity to take advice from experts. It Isa wage is the area allowance of is safe to say that in this instance no £1 12s. 6d. and the production bonus of such .capacity was shown, but, true to form £8. The firstmentioned is an Award of the Minister for Labour and Industry rushed the Court and is added to the wage of all legislation through the chamber which State Award workers in Western Queens­ necessitated 29 amendments before it reached land. The production bonus of £8 is the final stages. I do not suppose that restricted to Mt. Isa mine workers. But anything like that would have been seen in don't forget this: not one penny over the t·he history of Parliaments in the British award is paid to any mine worker Commonwealth. in Mt. Isa. And, believe me the high cost Mr. Bennett: He broke his own record. of living at Mt. Isa soon swallows up the bonus payment." Mr. W ALLACE: That is so. I never would have believed that that stage would Mr. Ramsden: How does the man get on be reached. I thought the Government who is working in Mt. Isa but not employed would have restrained the Minister from at the mine? bringing in a Bill that required so much amendment. Mr. W ALLACE: I am making a speech; the hon. member can make one later. This It is glaringly apparent that the section bulletin makes a comparison between prices of the Act dealing with bonus payments in Brisbane and Mt. Isa. It states- will again have to come before the Parlia­ ment for further amendment. No matter "For instance, our glass of beer costs how the Minister and his colleagues try roughly ls.; the price at the Isa is 1s. 3d. to evade the issue, common sense demands A cauliflower capable of fitting into that the authority of the Court or the 'father's' cup is worth 6s., beans are Commission that was so blatantly usurped 3s. 6d. a lb. Craven A cigarettes retail by the amending legislation must be at 2d. a packet more than Brisbane. The returned to the Court. hotel tariff is £3 15s. a day (an extra 5s. a day if your room is air-.conditioned). Since its inception it has been the respon­ Beer is 5s. 2d. a bottle as against the sibility of the Industrial Court to function local price of less than 3s. 6d. Potatoes on all matters coming within the ambit of in Brisbane at 9d. as against 11 td. in the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Mt. Isa. Butter is 5s. 2td. lb. and sugar at Act, and for anyone to suggest that bonus ls. Id. a lb. Many other prices could payments, after having been recognised and be compared but the aforementioned serve accepted by all and sundry as an industrial to illustrate the high Mt. Isa cost of matter over a period of almost 30 years, living." by the stroke of a pen cease to be industrial I read that for the purpose of putting on matters, is just too stupid for words. It record the information contained therein as shocks me to think that such a state of it would apear to me that the public of affairs was allowed to occur. It is the Queensland are being misled day by day by sort of thing that could only emanate from many of the items that appear in the Press, the mind of an individual obsessed with which invariably favour the company at a fanatical desire to destroy the workers of Mt. Isa. For that reason I want to place the State completely. on record just what is happening there. There could be no doubt even in the minds of the most biased that the issues My impression of the Mt. Isa dispute is at stake up to the present time are the that the action of Mount Isa Mines Limited failure of the Mt. Isa Mining Company in refusing to negotiate with union officials to further negotiate with union officials on over the bonus issue is another glaring bonus payments, in accordance with its instance of the arrogant and irresponsible increased profits, and secondly, the right of action of the Deputy Leader of the Govern­ union members to take strike action after ment. I say that very definitely. Had he having faithfully carried out the terms and not been so dogmatic in his approach to the conditions of the recently amended Act as amending of the Industrial Conciliation and they affect secret ballots. The union claims Arbitration Act much unnecessary industrial to have been locked out, and in my opinion turmoil and hardship could have been averted. 'J1here is no doubt about that at these claims are very well founded. all. Had the Minister been prepared to Mr. Windsor: Mr. Harvey said it was not be advised by officers competent to advise, a lock-out. Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 787

Mr. W ALLACE: Section 98 of the Indus­ Court members made it abundantly clear trial Conciliation and Arbitration Act of prior to the amending legislation being passed 1961 provides for an authorised strike; by Parliament that the powers of the court Those unions with members employed at were being savagely attacked and that the Mt. Isa have, as far as is humanly possible, Act was being heavily loaded against the fully carried out the constitutional require­ workers. Because of the amending legislation ments. the court decided not to hear the unions' Mr. Ramsden: One thousand did not vote. application for an increase in the Mt. Isa bonus payment. In that action and in its Mr. W ALLACE: The hon. member would statements we think the court indicated very not know anything about that. Paragraph strongly that its powers were being savagely 4 of Section 98 provides that a certificate attacked and whittled away. In my opinion from the Registrar is sufficient proof until the amending Act is a complete negation of it is proved to the contrary, and they hav­ British justice. The truth of that statement is ing in their possession such a certificate, it borne out particularly by Section 12 giving must be assumed that the unions have acted the power to reduce or abrogate a bonus. The in accordance with the section and that their Act clearly and distinctly takes from the members are not acting in an illegal or Commission the right to grant such a pay­ unauthorised fashion. Contrary to this is ment. Although it is given the right to the action of the Mt. Isa Mining Company reduce a bonus payment, it has no power to which, because of the full compliance with grant one. the terms and conditions of the Act by the unions appears to be acting completeiy The Act provides that the President of the illegally. It has indicated a strong desire Commission shall, if the parties so desire, to force the workers into a complete and make available a Commissioner for the abject surrender of their recognised and purpose of mediation. Just how useless and inherent right to strike. futile is the provision has been amply demon­ I repeat that the action of the Mt. Isa strated. Commissioner Harvey conferred with company was illegal and controversial. The the parties in Brisbane and Mt. Isa, with desire of this company and its oosociates in negative results. It is evident, and he agreed, industry is to force workers to agree to an that the position at Mt. Isa is chaotic and abject surrender of their recognised right to hopeless. He indicated very strongly that the strike. Thinking people will conclude, there­ law of the jungle is operating there. There fore, that the Mt. Isa company, again with is no chance of effective control until the Act its associates in big business, had a consider­ is further amended. He has given a clear able say in the framing of the Bill to amend indication of that. It would appear that at the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration the moment Commissioner Harvey has made Act. The company's action proves conclus­ up his mind that there is no possible chance ively the accuracy of statements made during of agreement being reached. He has also the debate on that Bill that any interference added that the company has not committed with the Act, because of the hostile attitude any breach of the Act and he has expressed towards unions and union officials, would the opinion that the unions are at fault. He bring about a state of chaos in industry, has indicated too that after the expiration of particularly at Mt. Isa. Those statements were two or three weeks he, in his capacity as well-founded. The Minister for Labour and Commissioner, will proceed to direct the Industry was quite adamant that the emas­ unions back to work. That is the interpret­ culation of the Act by removing a section ation we put on his actions. I want to see that for approximately 30 years had been fair play. Section 12 of the Industrial completely acceptable to employer and Conciliation and Arbitration Act stipulates employee and gave the Court an unfettered that the President of the ·Court shall, if the right to award bonus payments to Mt. Isa parties so request, make available a Com­ employees, would enable industry to function missioner for the purpose of mediation. I more smoothly and that the company would feel very strongly about any statements made be anxious to continue the practice of award­ by the Commissioner, acting as mediator, ing bonus payments more or less on the long especially as neither the Commission nor the accepted principle of a payment in proportion Commissioner have any power to direct to its profits. On the contrary, and this was Mount Isa Mines Ltd. expected by Opposition members, the Mt. Isa company has welched on its obligation and Any statement emanating from him in his has taken the unprecedented step of com­ capacity as mediator Is completely unwar­ pletely defying the terms and conditions of ranted and unfair to the Commissioner the Act and its agreement with the Minister. himself and the party against whom the Act It is quite apparent that there was an agree­ is so heavily loaded-the union. Commis­ ment between the Minister and the Mt. Isa sioner Harvey knows that he has no juris­ company on the framing of the amending diction and he also knows that because of Bill. Because of the assurances that had been the unparalleled stupidity of the Minister for given to the Minister, he accepted it, but it is Labour and Industry, until such time as the quite evident now that the Mt. Isa company Act comes back to Parliament for further are completely defying the terms and con­ amendment to again clothe the Commission ditions of it. with the proper and necessary authority to 788 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

assess and award bonus payments, the Mt. against those people who are classed as Isa Mines Co. will continue to thumb its nose channel farmers, the producers of the area at the Commissioner and the Government. feel they have good and sufficient reason If the Premier and his Government desire for requesting a prompt review of their industrial peace it is up to them to do a applications. spot of nose-thumbing themselves and make I am advised that the £56 excess cost of the necessary amendments to the Act without delivering water to their crops is made up as delay in the best interests of all concerned follows:- in the State of Queensland. Average acreage grown 25 acres I now wish to turn to another subject again Depreciation on plant £20 an acre relating to Far North Queensland. While the Pumping cost £15 an acre Treasurer has very expertly and cunningly Maintenance cost £10 an acre avoided mentioning one of the projects that Water fee to Irrigation is of major importance to Far Northern Department £4 an acre Queensland and that is the Mareeba­ Labour positioning of piping £16 an acre Dimbulah irrigation scheme, about which he merely says that the construction of the That comes to £65, less £9 an acre paid by Barron River hydro-electric project will the channel farmers, leaving £56 an acre. proceed at an increased tempo, I wish to I understand there are some 600 acres draw the attention of the Committee to a under tobacco in the area at present with most anomalous feature of the administration approximately 100 acres of small crops. affecting the water supply from the irrigation With the advent of the channel through the channels to consumers and to make a plea on area the land under small crops can be behalf of those farmers operating in the brought into tobacco production. It is esti­ aerodrome area near Mareeba who desire to mated that with the advent of irrigation draw their water supplies from the irrigation channels the present production of tobacco channel. This area has been producing could be doubled. The growers are smart tobacco for approximately 31 years and the and they realise that doubling the production producers in the area believe that they are in the area would double the amount of entitled to favourable consideration of their money the department would get from them application to have the channels brought to and that would represent an interest rate of their area. Applications were lodged first in approximately 8 per cent. on the depart­ November, 1959, and again in 1951, immed­ mental outlay. They think that compares iately after they had received a reply from more than favourably with channelling water the department in reply to their first applic­ to any other area in the North. For a ation. The answer to both applications was number of reasons they are very much con­ identical, being a blunt refusal of the request, cerned at the department's refusal to con­ on both occasions, and advising that there sider their applications favourably. Firstly, was no possibility of irrigation channels the area is part of the original tobacco pro­ being brought to the area until such time as duction area and proved without doubt to be all other areas are serviced which could mean eminently suitable for the production of good­ upwards of six years. It appears to me that quality leaf. Secondly, they believe that the an anomalous situation exists and that these area was intended to be serviced by channel farmers are labouring under a great disability in the original scheme. Thirdly, they believe and that their plight is not generally known the servicing of the area by Commission to the public or members of Parliament. channel was considered by the Irrigation Department to be an economic proposition. Mr. Davies: Can you tell us what the Fourthly, the estimated cost of bringing the tobacco-growers think of the Tobacco Mar­ channel to the area, of £140,000, compared keting Board? more than favourably with the estimated cost of taking the channel to the Emerald Mr. WALLACE: Yes, I can and I will. Creek area, of £1,000,000, and where the The growers in the area are responsible acreage available for production would not for delivering their own water from the be more than double that of the Aerodrome Barron River to their crops. Nearly all of area, with the Aerodrome area soil considered them at the moment are faced with the com­ to be the better for tobacco production. plete replacement of their irrigation equip­ Fifthly, they believe that politics had a very ment. Some of them have told me that, strong bearing on the department's refusal with heavy maintenance costs, . they might be to agree to their application. able to stagger along for a further 18 months Having reached this stage of my plea on or so but every one of them in the area behalf of these producers, and having been tells me he is faced with the almost immedi­ asked by the hon. member for Maryborough ate replacement of his irrigation equipment. what they think of the hon. member for I am told that the estimated average life of Tablelands, let me say I am glad the hon. irrigation equipment on a conservative basis member for Tablelands is in the Chamber is about 20 years and the estimated average because I should have been reluctant to say cost of fully renewing it is about £10,000 a it had lre not been present. What I am farm. In view of this and in view of the going to say will affect him very materially. fact that the average excess irrigation costs I put it to the Premier that tobacco-growers per acre in the Aerodrome area is £56 as in the Far North are not at all happy with Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 789 the activities of the hon. member for Table­ made about the potential of Far Northern lands in his capacity as chairman of Queensland and of Queensland generally, it the Tobacco Leaf Marketing Board. would have been reasonable to assume that They told me that they resent very strongly the Prime Minister and his Cabinet would his long absence overseas while the growers have decided, in view of the importance of were labouring under these very adverse con­ Queensland to the nation, to divert some of ditions. There appears to be a strong the millions that are being pumped into the hostility to the hon. member's holding the Snowy Mountains scheme to the most two positions of Chairman of the Tobacco valuable and vulnerable part of the Leaf Marketing Board and Member for Commonwealth. Tablelands in this Chamber. These people would be very happy if the Premier came Mr. Duggan: And £2,000,000 on an orna­ to Mareeba and convened a mass meeting mental lake at Canberra. of tobacco growers to hear their opinion Mr. WALLACE: That is right. It also publicly. But if the Premier is not pre­ indicates to me, as I have said in the pared to do that, they suggest that he might Chamber previously, that the Premier and advise the :hon. member for Tablelands to his colleagues who go to Canberra to resign his position of Chairman of the approach the Prime Minister for more money Tobacco Leaf Marketing Board because the have not the pugnacity needed to stand up concensus of opinion among tobacco pro­ to the Prime Minister. I believe-indeed, ducers in the Far North is that the industry I know-that the very big deterioration in has become a political football as a result both population and industry in Far Northern of his holding two positions. They go so Queensland is strongly indicative of the truth far as saying that the hon. member for of the statements appearing in the Press that Tablelands has been the chief beneficiary. Far Northern Queensland will be given away Those are the words of the people con­ completely. There is no doubt it has been cerned. I have been amongst them for given away by the Queensland Government some considerable time and talked to them, because ever since they came into power and they have asked me to put t-his case very there has been a constant deterioration. It strongly in their favour. I believe that they has now been given away by their cohorts have a very genuine grievance because the in the Federal sphere. It was interesting to area was amongst the first to be approved read the statement made by the Leader of as economically suitable to have the channels the Opposition and to realise that he agrees brought through it and it will be the last entirely with me. According to this news­ of all the tobacco areas to receive the paper article, Mr. Duggan said- channelled waters. I say very distinctly that they are carrying a heavy burden. They "It is obvious from this latest appro­ have asked the hon. member for Tablelands priation that Mr. Menzies is not genuinely on several occasions to do something for interested in Northern Australia." them, and they vehemently agree now that I believe that to be completley true. That he has done nothing for them. I am hon. members opposite are interjecting so reluctant to bring this case before the Com­ much is proof positive that they know mittee, but I am capable of doing so and nothing of the affairs of Far Northern willing to do so if I am asked. Queensland, nor are they interested. If the There are many other reasons why the hon. members for Tablelands and Mulgrave were interested in their electorates, every people in the tobacco areas are concerned time I condemn the Federal Government about the Government's action in not bring­ for their inactivity towards the development ing the channels to the area. I draw the of Far Northern Queensland, they should attention of the Committee to this statement stand behind me in demanding strong and m "The Courier-Mail" of Monday, positive action to alleviate the distressing 16 October - position obtaining at the moment in that part "More Millions on Snowy: Now of the State. £200 Mil. Mr. Davies: Instead they only sneer and The Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies), ridicule. yesterday announced that an immediate Mr. W ALLACE: They can sneer but they start would be made on works costing cannot ridicule because when I speak I put £20,887,000 which will divert Snowy before Parliament facts as they obtain. I like Mountains water into the Murray River." to put the facts forward for the benefit of That indicates very strongly to me that the the people of Far Northern Queensland who members of the Federal Government, are glad to know that they have somebody including the Prime Minister, are fully in willing and able to put their case. We do agreement with the contention of hon. mem­ not willingly hurt anybody by putting a case. bers on this side of the Chamber that major If we are asked to do something on behalf conservation of water is of paramount of the people of Queensland we should not importance in the development of Australia. be here if we have not the courage to do But it also indicates that the Prime Minister so. The hon. member for McKenzie indi­ and his Government have no further interest cated that he had the courage to get up in Far Northern Queensland, or in Queens­ and fight. I want the Government to know land, for that matter. From the statements that on this side we are willing and able 790 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply to take Government members on at any production was down to 116,385 tons. That time. From this side we have given a lesson was caused partly by a decline in the number to Government members. We have very of contract miners and partly by the imposi­ seriously embarrassed the Premier and his tion of dargs and, as the Government was Ministers on more than one occasion. to discover, the necessity for mechanisation. I repeat that it would have been wise had Between 10 January, 1951, and 24 March, the Minister for Health and Home Affairs 1952, the complete installation of power brought down his Estimates for detailed borers was carried out at Collinsville, after debate this year. quite a fight with the miners, and it eventu­ ally resulted after much expense of installa­ (Time expired.) tion, in a production of one extra skip per coal-face miner per day. Dr. DELAMOTHE (Bowen) (7.38 p.m.): An examination of the Estimates of the It was found, of course, that that was Probable Ways and Means of Expenditure quite insufficient to turn a losing proposition of the Government discloses many interesting into an industry that would at least break points. There is none more interesting, I even, so mechanisation of the mine was set believe, than the figures I now propose to in train and was completed in November, give. Under the heading of Trust and 1953, at a cost in the vicinity of £500,000. Special Funds appears an item for Salaries, Wages and Working Expenses on account of Hon. members at present in the Chamber Collinsville and Ogmore mines, and the figure and those who were in the Government and shown as expended in 1960-1961 is £684,173. who are now in Opposition, will recall the The appropriation for the current year is tremendous opposition to the introduction of £295,000, a difference of almost £400,000. mechanisation. In spite of the expenditure Under the heading of Consolidated Revenue of such an amount of money the immediate the provision for losses in 1960-1961 was result was an increase of the average overall £128,777, for the current year the estimate coal production per shift from 1.51 tons to !s nil. From the Loan Fund the expenditure only 1.68 tons. Production at the coal face, m 1960-1961 was £112,000 and the projected which is different from overall average pro­ expenditure for the current year is £30,000. duction, increased from 8.66 tons to 12.13 Taken together those figures represent a tons. That should have indicated, and I am tremendous saving in this year of grace as certain that it did, that the army behind a result of the action taken by the Govern­ the men at the coal face was just too big ment in disposing of the coal mine at for the miners to carry. Collinsville. On 13 October, 1954, there occurred an We are discussing a censure motion and explosion in which unfortunately seven I propose to meet censure with censure and people were killed and the mine was closed to lay the blame, because I believe that the for some time, reopening in January, 1955. necessity to dispose of this State instrumen­ From then until the second half of 1960 tality .is traceable directly to at least 20 years hand-mining in No. 2 tunnel was carried of failure to face up to responsibility, by out. Towards the end of 1960 one unit the p~~ple, blood brothers of the present of mechanisation had been put in order OppositiOn, who preceded them, and right and production by means of partial down to the present day by the present mechanisation was begun. By the beginning members of the Opposition. I say that of this year the second unit of mechanisa­ deliberately because one would have expected tion was completed, No. 2 tunnel was shut rat~er. different conduct, although the down and production was by mechanisation ma)onty of residents of Collinsville practise until the mine was finally closed on 19 the same cult as do hon. members sitting April. on the Opposition benches. Let us for a moment make a brief study I should like to tell hon. members some­ of production on the Collinsville field. I thing of the history of Collinsville down the go back to 1950 when the average pro­ years. Operations commenced there in one duction per man employed at Collinsville tunnel in March, 1919, and in 1935 a second was 1.83 tons. At the same time at a dip was constructed. The first coal neighbouring mine, Scottville, which is not amounting to 3,914 tons, was produced i~ nearly as good a mine, the overall average 1920. On 24 August, 1922 the Bowen-to­ production was 2.52 tons per man shift and Collinsville railway was op~ned for traffic for underground mines in the whole of and .in .1923-1924 80,000 tons came out of Queenslaad the average was 2.53 tons. In Collmsville,. the peak production being, of the July-December quarter of 1951 pro­ co.urse, dunng the war, when many extra duction at Collinsville was 1.84 tons com­ mmers were transferred there in 1942-1943 pared with 2.58 tons at Scottville and 2.62 and production reached the peak of 304 702 tons for the underground mines in the whole tons. ' of Queensland. It is from that period that the sad and We then come to 1960 when partial sorry story of Collinsville commences with mechanisation was back in Collinsville. The a gradual ~lipping away of coal production. overall average was 2.35 tons from a coal­ It started m that year and, by 1950-1951, face production of 23 tons. At Scottville Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 791 the overall average was 2.43 from coal­ say? I will not worry hon. members by face production of 9.91 tons. For Queens­ reading all of it but I will confine my land the overall average was 3.3 tons from quotations to the headlines in black print- coal-face production of 8.72 tons. "Minister names some miners saboteurs. Those are very interesting figures because "Darg reduced the output. it will be realised from a study of them, "Threat over mechanisation. despite all the changes in the method of "Darg imposed by timber men. winning coal, that very little change took "Took extra in rest periods. place in overall average coal production. "Assault on an official. A Royal Commission was constituted and "Smoking underground." reported on the explosion on 8 February, All hon. members may look at this docu­ 1956. Two significant paragraphs appear in ment afterwards. It was not public at the their findings, the first being- time, but was a private document prepared "If there is not a reasonable profit by and circulated by the then Minister for the 30th June, 1958, the question of con­ Mines. What did the Labour Government tinuance or discontinuance at the mine of the day do to meet the situation? They should be carefully considered." did nothing at all. Shortly afterwards the explosion came, and instead of taking advan­ and the second reading- tage of the opportunity of the interval when "The union would be wise to remem­ no work took place, to put their house in ber that while it is justified in its con­ order, what did they do? They put every tention that its first duty is to look after miner in No. 2 tunnel. They had two men its members it is not doing so if it pushes for every one-man job and carried on like control to the stage where a mine becomes that. It is no wonder that their average unprofitable." production per man-shift was infinitesimally Let us consider the profitability or unpro­ low. fitability of the mine. Losses from 1943- Mr. Hughes: You are suggesting Labour 1944 to March, 1961, amounted to almost sold them out? £1,000,000. During that period there was only one year when profitable operations Dr. DELAMOTHE: I am suggesting, and were carried out, and that was 1952-1953 I make no mistake about it, that every when a profit of £10,017 was made. Minister for Mines in the Labour Govern­ Up to 30 June, 1960, which is the latest ment wished to close the mine. This can figure I have available, outstanding Treasury be confirmed by the older members of the loans for installation of machinery, &c., Labour Party. I know at least four Labour over the years, amounted to £690,000. In Ministers for Mines who wished to end addition to that, from its inception, until the whole sorry business and close down 30 June, 1960, grants from Consolidated the mines. Of course, when Labour is faced Revenue to cover losses amounted to with occasions like that it never seems to £842,000. I have the latest figures for the be able to find the courage to do what is accumulated losses for Collinsville to 30 right. June, 1961, and in terms of what I said earlier the accumulated loss is £1,003,745. That brings us to the position in 1957 Of course, Labour was the Government from when the Country Party-Liberal Government 1943 to 1957, but it is only fair to examine took office. What did they do? That is a what the Governments did to meet these fair question to ask. They found this continuing losses. In 1943 the Minister for mechanised equipment, which had cost about Mines of the day visited Col!insville, and he £500,000, buried under tons of stone. It was very brave indeed because he called it was cleared at their direction and extra "a war-time funk-hole." equipm<>nt in the form of new shuttle cars Mr. Ewan: Who was that? was bought so that mechanisation was com­ pleted and coal-winning by mechanisation Dr. DELAMOTHE: That was the Mini­ was resumed in the second half of last year ster for Mines in 1943. with the huge increase in production that I mentioned before-from 8 tons to 24 or 25 In the mid-forties, Mr. Martens, who was tons per coal-face miner. then a Federal member, referred to the Communist disruptionists at Collinsville as What else did the Government do when mostly migrants, who had never had a decent they took over? I mentioned the tragedy feed until they came to this country. As of the seven men being killed. As some hon. a result of his statements, which were pub­ members will know, there is a form of con­ lished in the Press of the day, he lost his tributory subsidised pension for miners and selection and was replaced by Mr. Edmonds their wives and widows and children. as member for Herbert. In 1954 as many Normally, when a breadwinner is killed at hon. members will remember, Mr. Riordan, work his wife becomes eligible for workers' who was then Minister for Mines, circulated compensation, but the widows of the men this document to every member of the killed in the mine explosion of 1954 were Parliamentary Labour Party. It got into excluded from the benefits of pensions and the hands of "The Courier-Mail" and was were told

Bowen on 10 April. Something like 29 depu­ Dr. DELAMOTHE: I do not know if he tations had been arranged. On the night appreciated how funny they considered he before, the Sunday night, I had a ring from was because the gist of his speech was criti­ Mr. Nisbet, the secretary of the Collinsville cism of the tremendous waste in spending State Mine branch, who said that they were £500,000 on mechanisation in 1954 and coming down in a trainload to put on a thinly disguised, not entirely accusations, but march the next day, and asked if they could innuendoes that somebody somewhere had hold a deputation to the Premier. I said got a cut out of it. that it was impossible for me to say as I believed that the number of deputations Mr. DONALD: I rise to a point of order. already arranged would take up all the avail­ I certainly object to a st

Reference was made to rumours circulat­ the Committee that I met a union deputation ing in Collinsville to .the effect that the when the Minister for Development, Mines, Central Executive of the A.L.P. had directed Main Roads and Electricity and the Acting the Party not to assist the convoy. Premier, refused to see a deputation from the Mr. Lloyd and also Mr. J. Donald, Colliery Employees' Union, who asked me to M.L.A., hotly repudiated any suggestion make the approaches to the Government and that the party was not one hundred per to the Premier, in his absence the Acting cent. behind the move to bring about a Premier, and the Minister for Mines. I saw reopening of the Collinsville mine." that deputation and I think, in making this explanation, I did something that any Labour Mr. Donald: What's wrong with that? member of this Assembly, or in Queensland, would do against a precipitate, dastardly Dr. DELAOMTHE: That's right. The action on the part of the Government. article continued- "Mr. Lloyd agreed to issue a Press state­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. mem­ ment indicating the party's support for the ber for Bowen. Collinsville campaign, and to send a letter to Collinsville to that effect." Dr. DELAMOmE: Do we get time off for these interruptions, Mr. Taylor? Mr. Donald: What's wrong with that? The CHAffiMAN: Order! Dr. DELAMOTHE: The hon. member for Ipswich East probably gets a copy of this, Dr. DELAMOTHE: The convoy returned "Area News," because I do. via Bowen to Collinsville a week later, on Mr. Donald: They treat you better than the 26th, and where there had been a very they treat me. You are dearer to the Com­ large crowd to see them off there was not munists than I am. a single soul to see them back, even though they had sent wires. In fact at a meeting Dr. DELAMOTHE: I am there every held shortly after their return quite some second week. It comes every Wednesday, hot plain speaking took place. from the Press, and there is usually a para­ Shortly after that, Mr. Millar, State Presi­ graph devoted to me, although I have not dent, approached the manager of Scottville had one lately. This issue of 24 May has colliery and asked if there was any way that this to say- Scottville could employ some of the dis­ "A very heartening and outstanding missed Collinsville miners. (I suggest that feature of the visit of the convoy to Bris­ the hon. member for Ipswich East will be bane was its reception, and the assistance able to follow this and explain it to his given it, by the Deputy Leader of the fellow hon. members perhaps better than Parliamentary Labour Party, the Hon. E. most of them.) He was told that Scottville Lloyd. could pick up 70 to 80 men the next day ''The hon. Jim Donald came all the by putting on a third production shift. way from Brisbane to address the rally Mr. Millar said this was completely against held in Collinsville, taking the platform the award, even though these men had been with the Miners' Leaders. out of work for some time. Because of that "All through there has been this solid only nine men were picked up. Thanks to unity of the workers of Queensland, both vacancies caused by people leaving Scottville politically and industrially;" since then, an extra 20 have been picked up. and this will amuse the Premier- I can tell the Committee without any boast­ ing that, in addition, work has been found "And it is this that has thrown a near for well over 100 people in the area around panic into the ranks of the Nicklin Collinsville. I am very proud of that and Government.' I think hon. members opposite should be Mr. Houston: You were not game to go proud of it too. there. Mr. Donald: Ninety men are still waiting for jobs. Dr. DELAMOTHE: I have been there often since the mine closed and I have Dr. DELAMOTHE: In answer to that, castigated hon. members opposite about not 260 men were dismissed. What has any going up there. member of the Opposition done to find work for any one of those men? I must apologise for this but I think I should say it. The Leader of the Opposition Opposition Members interjected. has been much wiser than the Deputy Leader because he has done the Pontius Pilate act Dr. DELAMOTHE: They are supporters and stood aside and washed his hands of of the party to which hon. members who the whole affair. are interjecting belong, not to my party. Seventy-four men out of the 93 presently Mr. LLOYD: I rise to a point of order. I registered in Collinsville who have been out understand that the hon. member for Bowen of work so long and others have not been said that I entertained the convoy and permitted to take work with Davis Con­ excluded the only A.L.P. member from it. tractors. The new owners very ri~htly expect On a point of explanation, I point out to to be able to hire their own labour, especially 796 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply as the manager at the neighbouring mine executives-Comms-her husband hushes has always had the right to ,choose his own her and looks furtively round to see who labour. might have heard." As late as Wednesday of last week-six The background to that has been disclosed by the State President who as recently as days ago~a meeting was held in Brisbane between the new owners and Mr. Nisbet, the 12th of the month said, "We can drag our Mr. Millar, and Mr. Parkinson, the Federal members out at any time." President, and all except Mr. Parkinson An Opposition Member: Who said that? agreed that the mine should reopen on the new owner's terms. Mr. Parkinson, who Dr. DELAMOTHE: Mr. Millar. To illus­ comes from New South Wales and is a trate the fear of verbal intimidation and to well-known and self-acknowledged Com­ show what goes on I shall teU the Committee munist, was the only one who stood out. I what occurred at the meeting when the con­ wonder why? Is it because he is a voy came back. One man pointed out the Communist, and Communism breeds on faults of the leadership. He said that trouble and misery and he wants to cause Millar and Nisbet ~hould retire and make trouble and misery in Collinsville? Or is it room for others. The Communists and their because he is a New South Welshman and followers gave him hell, they booed ~nd Queensland's coal exports are offering a real yelled and tried to sit him down, label!mg threat to the export trade of New South Wales him as a splitter and a stooge. That w~s and he is trying to protect that trade? the last public meeting that was called m Now I am going to ask the hon. members Collinsvil!e. for Norman, Bulimba, Salisbury and (Time expired.) Belmont, who, according to the Press, are the present-day darlings of the Trades and Mr. MANN (Brisbane) (8.38 p.m.): I was Labour Council-- very interested to hear the travelogue of the hon. member for Bowen. I am sure that Mr. Sullivan: Instead of using the term his compatriots on the back benches would "darlings," couldn't you use the term enjoy the story of the convoy fr?m _Bowen "stooges"? after the miners' trouble at Colhnsvtlle. I do not intend to waste the time of the Dr. DELAMOTHE: They are described Committee in replying to any statements he here as the darlings of the Trades and made about the attitude of my Deputy Labour Council. I cannot ask the Leader Leader or the hon. member for Ipswich of the Opposition to do this because, accord­ East towards that matter. I rise to support ing to the Press, he is at odds with the the amendment moved by my Leader that President of the Council, Mr. Egerton; but the item be reduced by £1. The amendment I ask these members who are persona grata was moved to draw the attention of the with the Trades and Labour Council at the Queensland public to the deplorable finances moment on behalf of the people at Collins­ of the Nicklin-Morris Government. I am ville to take some action to get these men particularly glad that the Premier i_s her.e back to work under the new owners of the to hear what I have to say about htm, h1s Collinsville mine. Government and their financial position. Every year when the Nicklin-Morris Govern­ There has been an atmosphere of fear in ment have brought down their Budget they Collinsville. Anyone who stepped out of have budgeted for a deficit, yet, when we line or who got at odds with the Communist were the Government and they were over union officials found himself abused and here, they chided us at every possible oppor­ verbally intimidated, but strange to say there tunity about the way in which we handled the has never been any physical intimidation, finances of the State. In case hon. members only intimidation by brain-washing. I went have forgotten, let me remind them that the there in 1932. At that time a man named deficits for the vears this Government have Henderson, now an interpreter for the Com­ been in office are substantial. In the first munist forces in Vietnam, used to run a year, 1957-1958, as my Leader pointe_d out. Sunday morning school for young Com­ there was a deficit of £1,500,000, m the munists. Most of the Communists in second year 1958-1959, a deficit of Collinsville today were trained in that school. £1 190 000 and in 1959-1960, a deficit of At the present time there is a leadership £164,675. This year, the Statef!!ent says, school for Communists in Collinsville. These there is a deficit of £618,243, makmg a total are things hon. members opposite ought deficit since the election of this Government to know. They are facts they should have of £3,488,000. found out for themselves, and influences they should have protected themselves against. I Last year when the Treasurer presented have received many letters from people in his Financial Statement he blamed the Collinsvile, many of them portraying the drought and the margins-margins for skill same state of affairs.. The following is not granted by the Court to the workers, pa:­ what one person has written but it amounts ticularly those in the railways and the Pubhc to a composite letter- Service. The Treasurer said that only for "If a woman dares whisper an opinion the margins and th~ drought we might have contrary to that set down by the union had something near a balanced Budget. Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 797

This year he is blaming the drought again tobacco. There is a substantial increase in and the enconomic squeeze inflicted upon production, at the cost of some unfortunate the country by the Menzies-McEwen Gov­ tobacco-growers. ernment at ~anberra. He goes on in his On page 2 of the Financial Statement the Statement to point out that- Treasurer points out that- "Favourable factors in primary industry "For the first six months of 1960-1961 were record values of production in min­ receipts were so buoyant that there was ing, sugar and tobacco and substantially every indication that the estimated deficit increased value of mutton and lamb pro­ would be overtaken and a comfortable duced." surplus recorded. It was not until the My colleague, the hon. member for Cairns second half of the year that the combined particularly, mentioned the plight of the effects of credit controls and drought tobacco-growers in the North and the matter made it apparent that the Budget estimate was also mentioned by the hon. members for would not be realised. The effect of Carnarvon and Cook. I ask the Premier credit controls had its greatest impact on what have his Government or the Menzies revenues derived from Stamp, Succession Government done to protect the tobacco­ and Probate Duties and Titles Office fees. growers of this State? Although the The combined collections of these head­ Treasurer has pointed out that they have ings were £769,591 less than anticipated." grown considerable quantities of tobacco and Last year, in an effort to make up the leeway, that there has been a great improvement in the Treasurer took out of the special trust production, I ask him what has been done fund for stamp and succession duties more to protect them financially? than £1,000,000. Hon. members on this side of the Chamber warned him of the possibility Mr. Ewan: You do not even smoke. What that he would not be able to replace the have you done to help? money and that he was scraping the bottom of the tin. Now the Treasurer points out Mr. MANN: I expect an interjection like that collections last year were £769,000 less that from the hon. member for Roma who than anticipated. is not interested in the tobacco-growers, the finances of the State or the unemployed in The Minister for Justice is an accountant the State. All he wants is to make some and has some appreciation of the Financial inane interject!on to draw a red herring Statement. We could say that he is an across the tratl and draw me away from offsider to the Treasurer in matters of the real problems confronting the Govern­ accountancy. We heard statements on the ment. hustings that the Nicklin-Morris Government were a Government of business men, that Mr. Duggan: He is the man who coughs all Government members were business men. every time the Minister has a cold. I have looked at them now for four years and the only Cabinet members in my opinion Mr. MANN: I am not surprised at that. who have displayed business acumen at all There has been an increase in the production in the portfolios they hold are the Minister of tobacco despite the fact that I do not for Agriculture and Forestry, the Minister smoke. There has also been an increase in for Development, Mines, Main Roads and the profits of the companies that buy the Electricity, and the Treasurer. They are the tobacco and those that distribute tobacco only ones to whom I give any credit. I do and cigarettes imported into Australia. not even include the Premier, although Immense profits are being made by those personally he is not a bad old chap and I get companies. along well with him. Mr. Ewan: The Commonwealth Govern­ The Minister for Justice, who has some ment insists on the use of 40 per cent. of knowledge of accountancy, would agree that Australian leaf. these two sources of revenue are very sensi­ tive barometers of economic change. The Mr. MANN: The hon. member for Cairns revenue is related to the financial transac­ knows and the hon. members for Carnarvon tions throughout the State. The duties give and Cook know. and most likely the hon. an indication of the extent of transactions member for Tablelands but, because he in shares, hire purchase, insurance and many belongs to the Government he is not at other forms of business. Receipts fluctuate l!berty to get up and say the things he would according to the number of transactions in like to. say about monopolies and cartels and stocks and shares. I admit that the economic th_e attitude of the Government when dealing squeeze of the Menzies Government may w1th the tobacco-growers of this State. have had something to do with the decline in revenue from stamp, succession and probate I say that the Premier has not done duties. anything to assist the tobacco-growers or to protest to the Menzies Government about Mr. Ewan: You do not agree that the drought has had anything to do with the the raw deal they have been getting from decline? the cartels and combines handling tobacco in this country. So much for the Treasurer's Mr. MANN: I am sick and tired of the saying that on the credit side there is a cry of Government members about the substantial increase in the production of drought. I know as much about it as the 798 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

hon. member. I have seen more of the worse and worse. It is essential in the State of Queensland than he has ever seen policy of any Government for a plan to be and I realise a drought exists in the far evolved, and the Government should be able western area of the State. to tell the people of Queensland that they have a plan and they should be in a position Mr. Sullivan: You do not have to go to the far western part of the State. to put it into operation. I challenge the Have a Premier and the Government to tell us look at the Darling Downs and you will know there is a drought. what plans they have that will find work for the 15,000 unemployed in the State. They Mr. MANN: I do not have to go to the have no plan and they are standing idly Da~l~ng Downs to know about the drought. by waiting for something to turn ~p, h_oping I VISit Toowoomba every now and again. It the drought will break or that ml Will be is a pleasant town. I do not have to go to found, or something else will happen to Dalby to attend a meeting on transport extract them from the plight they are in. matters to find out about the drought or Mr. Low: We have a secret weapon. dissension in the ranks of the Government partie~. The hon .. member's having charged Mr. MANN: There is no need for the hon. me With _not knowmg there is a drought on, member to talk about secret weapons. His I am entitled to reply in the way in which I secret weapon is silence. He believes, as I have ~eplied. I am sorry if I appear to be have said before, that if you keep your offensive. I could say of him that he would mouth shut you cannot get into trouble. sack all railway men, that he thinks all of them are loafers. The Government have failed to deal with the problem and have not taken adequate The Treasurer today is telling a different steps to make any provision for any State story from the story he gave in the past. work to meet the unemployment problem "The Courier-Mail" in December 1957 in the community. In this morning's paper, reported the Treasurer as saying- ' ' the Premier said that he could see no future, "Sweeping revisiOn of the whole and no outlook. If the Government were Queensland taxation field, which may lead strong they would attack their friends in to abolition of some taxes, is being under­ Canberra and make sure they got some taken by the State Treasurer (Mr. Hiley)." special relief money, or a special loan. A new set of tax laws, in simple terms, Mr. Ewan: Tell us about Mt. Isa. so that the average man can work out Mr. MANN: I will tell the hon. member his liabilities, is expected to be ready next year. about Mt. Isa. I am glad he said that because I have something to say about it. Mr. Hiley said yesterday he was I will tell him something about it all right. 'horrified' to find that some State taxes were costing more to collect than they I believe the main purpose behind the yielded. economic squeeze imposed by the Menzies Government was to help the monopoly These were 'bad taxes' at a time when cartels place the burden of the economy Aushalia was 'perilously close' to the on the backs of the workers in the com­ back-breaking point in taxation. munity. In a 40-minute address to the Queens­ land Taxpayers' Association annual meet­ I draw the attention of hon. members to ing in Brisbane he said that any Govern­ the youth unemployment figures. The ment which thought it could put taxes up Minister for Education and Migration is confronted with serious educational prob­ an~ up and so t!lx the country into pros­ penty was headmg for disaster. It was lems involving the youth in the community. a wrong concept." What is the good of sending youths to school and getting them to seventh grade, That statement was not made by me but sub-Junior, or Junior standard, if, by the Treasurer of the day. Let us look at after passing Junior, the Government his record and see what we can find: deficit, cannot find any work for them? year a~ter year; increased taxation every The Government formed a Committee of year; higher freights and fares in the rail­ which you, Mr. Dewar, were the chairman. ways; higher stamp duty; higher tax on I do not want to embarrass you because you bookmakers' betting tickets, and now this are now in the Chair, but they formed the year there is to be a higher tax on licensed Committee to deal wiuh juvenile delinquency. victuallers and a higher tax on the racing It is no good the Government, with all fraternity in general. How does the Premier honesty and all good intent, appointing you rationalise that record with the statement and five or six of your fellows to go into made by the Treasurer in 1957? I feel the matter of juvenile delinquency when they sure that my leader was quite in order cannot find work for the juveniles to do. and his action was quite proper when he I have the figures in front of me and I will moved the amendment so that we could tell the Committee how many young people draw the attention of the public of Queens­ are out of work, but I want to point out land to the salient points of maladministra­ first that no matter what the Government do, tion of the State by this Government. At no matter what the hon. member for Kurilpa the same time as they are increasing taxa­ says about uhe books that are being read, tion the unemployment figures are getting Satan finds mischief for idle hands to do. Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 799

The Minister for Education and Migration, definitely against that. It is the responsibility as an ex-school teacher knows that. He of the Government to find work for the was a good teacher too; I give him credit people who have neither work nor wages. for that. He knows that what I am saying Mr. Hughes: You are singing the same is true. Young people are full of life and song of your band of knockers. fun and vigour and if you cannot find work for them to do, if they are not in employ­ Mr. MANN: The hon. member is lucky ment, they will find mischief. he represents the electorate he does. If he Dr. Noble: Some of the old boys will, too. had an industrial electorate he would not hit the ground. It is only because of the Mr. MANN: Let the Minister speak for Government's gerrymandering that he has himself. I am pointing out to the Minister been able to get into Parliament. It is no for Education and Migration that it is esti­ good the hon. member denying these facts. mated that this year 173,000 young people The facts are that in August last year there will reach 15 years of age, that in 1962 were 2,034 unemployed, and in August this 211,000 will turn 15 and that it is estimated year there were 7,800 unemployed. I say that 143,000 school-leavers will come on to the Premier through you, Mr. Dewar, the labour market by the end of 1961. Most that I believe this Government have created of those will face an uncertain future the greatest hardship and suffering for many through unemployment. There are fewer thousands of citizens since the depression apprentices at school and fewer in jobs. days of the Moore Government. This is Because of unemployment some have joined no idle story. the army. It is estimated that 20 per cent. Mr. Ewan: What about the days of the of the persons registered as unemployed today are under 21 years of age. I want Scullin Government? to drive it home to the Premier and his Mr. MANN: I am talking about this Government that this Government and the Government. The hon. member is talking Menzies Government have shown a callous about 20 or 30 years ago. disregard for the plight of boys and girls by refusing to extend the unemployment Mr. Ewan: I am asking you about the benefit to those between 16 years of age and Scullin Governme:1t. 21 years. There should be some benefits for Mr. Donald interjected. them. In the report of the Commissioner of The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. Police tabled the other day it is pointed out Dewar): Order! that one-third of the crime committed in Mr. MANN: I am not concerned about Queensland has been committed by what happened in the time of the Scullin juveniles. What have the Government to Government nor about what happened in say about that? Nothing! They are silent. the time of the Curtin Government, because Mr. Low: You are making the speech-for I know they were the best two Labour the knockers. Governments ever elected in Australia. The people trusted them in perilous times. If Mr. MANN: I am knocking the hon mem­ they had trusted them in ordinary times the ber's government on behalf of the unem­ country would not be in the bad economic ployed. Unless his Government do position that it is in today. something to look after the unemployed and The Treasurer said on the second page to balance the Budget I will keep knocking and I make no apology to the hon. member of his Financial Statement- for Cooroora for doing so. I say the " A big decrease in grain and livestock Government today have not the,: intere-sts of traffic, due to drought conditions, combined the workers at heart. Monopolies are to a lesser degree with credit controls and making greater profits than ever and I am increased competition from motor trans­ greatly concerned about the unemployment port, were the major factors in revenue position. I do not say the Premier is not collected by the Railway Department being concerned about but I want to know what £1,602,613 less than estimated." he is going to do about it. He is in Having read that statement by the Treasurer, charge of the affairs of the State. Surely I want to say that in my opinion the railways he and his Cabinet, men of business acumen, are badly managed. The statement is an can devise some means to afford a measure indictment of the Minister for Transport, of relief for the 15,000 people who are out and it is also an indictment of the Railway of work in this State. Commissioner. I believe that the railways Mr. Hughes: We have not had any con­ are now in the most chaotic condition that structive suggestions from that side. they have ever been in. Because of the mismanagement of the Minister, 2,000 fewer Mr. MANN: The hon. member for men are employed in the railways today Kurilpa made a suggestion and it was the than there were four years ago. Non-paying silliest suggestion I ever heard. He wanted lines have been torn up in an endeavour those in employment to pay some dues to stem the tide of losses and balance the into a pool to provide work for the unem­ Budget. Last year or the year before the ployed. The trade union movement is Treasurer had a stocktaking of all the spare 800 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply scrap-iron in the railways and called tenders said he did not know whether to increase for it. The highest tenderer got it. It is railway fares and freights or to fight a war no good trying to convey innuendoes to me to the finish with border-hopping transport about scrap-iron. The Minister is respon­ operators. What has he done? He has sible for the chaotic conditions that prevail increased rail freights and fares by 10 per in the railways today. cent., but done nothing at all about the Mr. Sullivan: You know that the Minister transport position. The railways are in a for Transport inherited stock-yards that were worse position than they have ever been in falling down and he did something about the history of the State. The Government are putting them in order. Tell us something going to close lines and workshops, but such about that. measures will not get them one more ton on the railways. They should do something about Honourable Members interjected. getting work for the railwaymen to do, and The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. seeing that it is done. Dewar): Order! There are far too many hon, Next to full employment the most urgent members trying to make this speech. I ask social problem confronting the Government is them to allow me to hear the hon. member housing. I am sorry that the Treasurer is not for Brisbane. here because I have something to say about Mr. MANN: If the hon. member for the housing position. It is tragic that Queens­ Condamine has any advice to offer about land still has a housing shortage. Hon. mem­ the railways, let him offer it to the Minister bers opposite will say that it is better than for Transport. when we were the Government, but I am not going to come in. They would not know I have read many statements in the Press that thousands of young people are forced condemning the Railway Department. Here to share accommodation with relatives while is one under the name of Eric McCallum of others live in substandard houses and flats, Stafford, who said that the position in the paying exorbitant rents because of the action railway goods yards was the worst ever, but of the Minister for Justice in doing away that even on a normal day three hours is the with rent control. usual waiting time for trucks at Roma Street. Can hon. members imagine any Mr. Hughes: There are no slum Victoria private firm running the railways and being Park housing settlements. short of checkers and allowing trucks to be held up for three hours or more? Mr. MANN: If the hon. member can get any satisfaction out of talking about slums at A Government Member: It happened when Holland Park or Gregory Terrace I will give your party were in government. him all the satisfaction he wants. There are Mr. MANN: It will not absolve them by thousands of people in Queensland, hundreds saying what happened under my Government. in Brisbane alone, who cannot obtain reas­ It has happened under their Government and onable accommodation. Many are living in the deficit is getting bigger every year. To overcrowded conditions because the Govern­ try to stem the tide the Treasurer has cut ment have no homes to offer. I want to say down on the stores in the Stores Department; something about the officer in charge because he has gathered up all the scrap iron; he has I think he is the most cold-blooded public got them tearing up all the railway lines. He servant I have ever had anything to do with. has got them to start to do away with the People looking for homes are told that workshops at Cairns, Warwick, Maryborough, they are not being ejected therefore they in the hope that he might be able to balance cannot be helped because they have not got the Budget. If these things continue the only a high enough points priority. The mother line left will be from Brisbane to Cairns. I may be living with in-laws and the kids put it to the Premier seriously that a man sleeping on the floor. It is an awful position will not use the railways if he has to wait to be in. The Treasurer has attempted to three or four hours to get his produce on the transfer to private enterprise the respon­ train. Another man said, "Give us a road sibility of housing the people. I claim that from here to Cairns and we will carry our the people who, because of economic circum­ produce by road transport." Of course he stances are unable to find a home to live in, would if he were allowed to, but I would not are the responsibility of the State which be in favour of that. If the Government want should find them accommodation, and not at the public to patronise the railways you have the exorbitant charges they are forced to pay to give them service. You cannot have them because of the policy of the Minister for wait at Roma Street three or four hours or Justice and the Government to which he perhaps having to come back the next day to belongs. load produce on to trains. That is the Commissioner's job and the general I said a moment ago that I wished to manager's job. say something about the gentleman in charge of the Housing Commission letting section, Mr. Chalk: That is what we said in 1956. Mr. Cummings. If I ring up to find out the position of a tenant I am told in a few Mr. MANN: I am saying it now. Last year minutes his points of priority. This gentleman the Treasurer blamed the border-hoppers. He asks me to put it in writing to the Treasurer. Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 801

On doing that I get a letter back from the phrases such as, "The law of the jungle", Treasurer saying, "Owing to the points of "Holding the community to ransom", and priority and because of more urgent cases other stupid statements, but let me remind we cannot do anything about it." That is the Minister for Education and Migration the policy on which this Government rest. of the words of President Abraham Lincoln They are leaving it to the officers of the when he said- department and there is not any doubt in "I know the trials and woes of the my mind that there is some suggestion working man and I have always felt from the Government that the officers do for them. I know that in almost every nothing beyond suggesting writing to the case of strikes the men have just cause Minister. When the Minister is asked what to complain." priority John Mann has, he has none, "I am sorry, I cannot give him a house." That is the statement of Abraham Lincoln, the greatest President the American Republic Mr. Ewan: Talk about Mt. Isa. has ever had, whilst here are members of this Government criticising-- Mr. MANN: If I had to deal with the hon. member I would get my own priority. Mr. Smith interjected. I do wish to talk about the policy of the Mr. MANN: I can assure the hon. mem­ Government in relation to industrial affairs. ber that the Q.C.E. can look after itself. I The hon. member challenges me to talk draw hon. members' attention to a statement about Mt. Isa. I say through you, Mr. made by Mr. Justice Higgins in 1915. He Dewar, that no-one can say that the Aus­ was a member of the Arbitration Court. In tralian worker does not on the average 1915 when dealing with unemployment and give equal service when compared with any strikes he had this to say- other worker in the world. "What is to be done to protect men The Minister for Labour and Industry is in the exercise of their rights as free men often heard fussing over losses of produc­ to combine for their mutual benefits, seeing tion and he introduces heavy penalties for that the employing class has the tremen­ men who go on strike. He talks of loss dous power of giving or withholding work." of production of man hours and accuses How true is that statement! That is the the workers when they defend their con­ point in the Mt. lsa dispute. The company ditions. The Minister for Labour and has no right to give or withhold work. The Industry is the most provoking Minister who employing class still tries to exercise the has ever occupied the position of Minister right to say who shall work and who shall for Labour and Industry. He has less starve. The unions are justified in trying to understanding than any Minister I have combat that state of affairs. The system of known in my 25 years in this Parliament arbitration was obtained after years and years and through a study of other Ministers in of struggle. It is one of the foremost planks other Governments. of the Labour Party policy and I make no apology for it. Although wor~e:s an; at I will not use my own words to prove times dissatisfied with some declS!on given that. I will quote what he says. He says- by the court, in most instances t~e:y accept "It was imperative that greater punitive it and go back to work. The Mm1ster for powers be given to the Industrial Court Labour and Industry and the Government to 'deal more strongly with the law­ stand indicted. They have gone out of their breaking elements in our community.' " way deliberately ,to wreck the arbitration He wants to give more punitive powers to system that was in operation when we left the Court. He goes on and states that­ the Treasury benches and they took over. When it suits them they say they believe in "he proposed to investigate immediately arbitration. I ask the Premier to say what ways and means to give greater punitive prompted the Minister for Labour and Indus­ powers to the Industrial Court to deal try to take out of the Industrial Conciliation with such people. Despite Queensland's and Arbitration Act the right of the Court just and fair industrial machinery indus­ to award bonus payments. Some considera­ trial sabotage and gross irresponsibility tion or some motive must have prompted were still found." him to do that. That is, of course, amongst the unions. For the information of hon. members who Mr. Pizzey interjected. do not know it I read the following passage from a report on the judgment of the Court Mr. MANN: That is his idea. Let me in 1951- make it quite plain to the Minister for "In September, 1951, the company made Education and Migration that any Govern­ application to the court, to vary the award ment or any Minister who thinks that laws to raise the starting point of the lead restricting Labour from using its industrial bonus to £95 per ton because the price strength can be enacted, is due for a rude of lead had risen to £227 per ton and awakening. No Government can introduce the bonus worked out at £21 Ss. per week. laws that will stop the workers from strik­ The Company case did not disclose any ing if they have a just case. We hear the details of the quantity of increased operat­ Minister for Labour and Industry using ing costs but seemed mainly concerned with 26 802 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

the great harm the increased bonus was Mr. Richter interjected. having on the employees in the way of Mr. MANN: It ties up this way, that the betting and drinking." union are not satisfied with the £8 bonus I will not read the whole of it. The Court and they asked to negotiate. The Minister in its wisdom decided to peg the bonus at for Labour and Industry in his naiveness £17 Ss. Even if the price of lead went to said that the company would be glad to nego­ £247 a ton, the bonus would not exceed tiate with the workers. They are not glad £17 Ss. It was pegged by the Court at that to negotiate and they will not budge. I level, so the company got a very fair deal ask the Government to give back this power from the Court-an exceptional deal with to the Commission. They may put it back the price of lead at more than £200 a ton. either by Order in Council or in any other The unions did not complain. They accepted way that suits them. That would let the the judgment of the Court. The bonus of unions go to the Commission to ask the £17 Ss. in effect meant a reduction of £4 a Commission to assess the bonus. If that was week. Today the company is making a done I guarantee that the unions would accept profit equivalent to £6,000,000 a year. There the decision. I have no authority from any­ Is something wrong somewhere. No-one can one to say that, it is only my personal tell me the basis of the dispute is the argu­ opinion, but I feel certain of it. A member of the Government asked me to talk about ~ent about the bonus payment. I should hke 'the hon. member for Roma to listen Mt. Isa, and I will talk about it. This to this _further information. It has come to Government stand condemned in the eyes my not1c.e that an ;"linerican company known of every decent Queenslander for their atti­ as Amencan Smeltmg and Refining Company tude and their silence in the dispute. holds 51 per cent. of the Mt. Isa shares. A Government Member: You endorse the The compa:ny i_s engage_d in the. refining of strikers' action? lead and zmc m Amenca. This American company and the American Government Mr. MANN: Yes, I do, and I make no have placed a restriction on the imports apology for that. of lead and zinc from Australia into . ~ no'Y wish to refer to some very nasty the United States. That is the cause of the msmuations made by the Minister for Mines, h~ld-up at M~. Isa. That is why Mr. Foots Development, Main Roads and Electricity in smd, We wlll allow the mine to remain reply to a question asked by the hon. member clos~d a_nd let the miners starve." The con­ for Townsville North. The hon. member trolhl!g mterest of the American Smelting and asked the Minister a question referring to Refimng Company is the cause of the dispute, a statement made by a man at Julia Creek. and I challenge anyone to deny it. I challenge It was not a suggestion made by the hon. Mr. Foots to refute my statement that Ameri­ member because he does not know the can Smelting and Refining Company holds country, but he asked a reasonable question 51. per cent. of the Mt. Isa shares and that about this beef-cattle road from Normanton this company engaged in America in the to Julia Creek and the Minister spent five smelting and refining of lead and zinc wishes minutes ridiculing the hon. member. I know to place a prohibition on the imports of lead that area and I am sure this road will not and ~inc from Mt. Isa I challenge the bring one more fat bullock out of the Gulf Premier on the Mt. Isa dispute to tell us than is being brought out now. The only w~at the Government have to say about it. difference will be that they are brought out W!ll they ~llow the mine to be closed to by cattle-trains instead of by the drovers and su~t the wishes of an American company? they will get to the railhead quicker. I do Will th~y let the town rot and workers starve? not say that it will not bring them out fatter What IS the motive behind it? There is or that they will not lose as much weight, always a motive behind these things. The but I am confident that it will not bring out other day Mr. Waters mentioned a large sum one more fat beast. of money being paid into the Government's "slush fund." Mr. Sullivan: Don't you think that is a good idea? A Government member: That is not worthy of you. Mr. MANN: Yes, but the Government are spending £6,000,000 to build the road. I will Mr: MANN: Mr. Foots said that it was let . the Minister for Mines, Development, too silly to talk about. Why did he not Mam Roads and Electricity have a "go" at come out and say, "It is too silly to talk me when he makes his contribution to this about, and Waters is a liar." debate, but there is a very serious whispered story that this road is to meet the wishes A Government Member: He knows it. of ~oml? of ~he owners of the stations through Mr. MANN: If he knows it he is not which It Will run and that Mr. Menzies is ~ beneficiary under the Angliss estate. That game . to say it or ~epudiate it: Let him repudiate my suggestion that the American IS the story circulating in the Gulf. Smelting and Refining Company has a con­ Mr. Pizzey: Does the Labour Party oppose trolling interest in Mt. Isa and has ordered this road? the mine to stay closed. It will suit them ?ecause ~hey will be able to sell their product Mr. MANN: No, but we say that at this m Amenca. stage the £6,000,000 could be better spent Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 803

on public works to relieve the unemploy­ Mr. MANN: I am not saying it. It is ment situation. How many men does the Arthur Richard's story. It is there in "The Minister think will be employed on that Courier-Mail" and the Minister cannot deny road? it. Mr. Smith interjected. Dr. Noble: Oh, can't I deny it? That is all you know. Mr. MANN: The road goes from Norman­ Mr. MANN: The Minister can deny it ton up through Canobie, Dalgonally, here but I say he cannot deny that it is Eddington, to Ju!ia Creek. I have there in the newspaper. been over every yard of it so it is no good the hon. member for Windsor talking Dr. Noble: It is quite wrong. about the Gulf country. He would very smartly get lost in that area. However, Mr. MANN: I challenge the Minister to statements have been made by people there. bring on his department's Estimates and give us an opportunity to discuss them. Mr. Pizzey: You are making a great deal Dr. Noble: You will have your chance in of noise. due course. Mr. MANN: The Minister kicked up a Mr. MANN: Another report by Arthur whole lot of noise this morning when my Richards is headed-"Ward 16 is a disgrace colleague asked him a simple question. He to Queensland. It's like a 19th century could not give a simple answer and say madhouse." whether it does or does not go through the A Government Member: You should flooding Flinders area. I simply say that know. is another thing that has been said. Whether it is true or not I do not know. These state­ Mr. MANN: The hon. member says I ments are made and hon. gentlemen opposite should know. If he has not been there he get very stirred up and very hurt because ought to go and have a loo_k at it b~c:;tuse we seek information on the subject. We it is deplorable. I want to give the Mimster ask a simple question and for our pains we some credit for what he is doing in the get insulted. psychiatric field-! do not want to condemn him altogether-but I know the Treasurer Mr. Pizzey: Provocative questions. is cracking the whip on him to cut down his department's expenses just as he is crack­ Mr. MANN: The Minister can say what ing the whip on the Minister for Transi?ort he likes but he cannot stop me. I can assure and making him close these branch lines him of that. William Angliss & Co. can and pull out these workshops. The Govern­ say what they like about it, too, but that ment are starving for money. I hope that is the story I have been told. The £6,000,000 the Ministers will be able to please the could well be spent in providing work for Treasurer and allow the Government to live the unemployed at this time when the Gov­ within their income, as he puts it. ernment have no money for them. They could delay the building of the beef-road. Honourable Members interjected. It is all ballyhoo about the urgent need for it. There will be not one more fat bullock The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. brought from the Gulf than is being brought Dewar): Order! off today. Mr. MANN: I know that it upset hon. members opposite to hear the Leader of the I notice in the Financial Statement that Opposition expose to the people of Queens­ the Treasurer asked the Ministers to land the horrible mess that the Government endeavour to cut expenditure of their depart­ have made of the administration of Queens­ ments to the bone and to try and balance land, the terrible mess that they have made their budget in every possible way. I sup­ of the State's finances, and the deplorable pose he has a right to do that because it condition that the railways are in. is his responsibility to balance the Budget I now draw the attention of the Committee and look after the affairs of the Govern­ to a statement by Arthur Richards, a reporter ment. for "The Courier-Mail," in which he states So I want to refer now to the situation at quite definitely that public hospitals are in the public hospitals. serious financial difficulties. Mr. Hughes: There would not now be any Mr. Bennett: It is a shocking condition, too. free public hospitals if Labour were in power. Mr. MANN: The hon. member is too busy Mr. MANN: Here is a statement by Arthur selling fruit in his fruit stall to know that a Richards-"Two big hospitals under-staffed. Labour Government were the only Govern­ Overwork lowers nurses' morale." It says ment-who held out against the Common­ they work up to 15 hours a day at a stretch. wealth. Dr. Noble: How can you work 15 hours Mr. Ramsden: That was your friend Bill a day at a stretch? Moore. 804 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. MANN: Yes, it was Bill Moore who play the clown instead of being a states­ held out. The hon. member would not man. Instead of looking after the affairs understand that. of the State, he wants to clown his way out of the difficulties. He will not reduce the Dr. Noble: As a matter of fact, I have a deficit in the Railway Department by play­ file in my office in which it is stated that the ing the fool, and sacking railway men will Labour Party wanted to do away with free not solve the problem but wiU only make hospitals. it worse. Mr. MANN: I do not want to say that the I am delighted to support the amendment Minister is a liar because I know you will moved by the Leader of the Opposition. stop me, Mr. Dewar. I know I could not do He told hon. members of the mismanage­ It. However, I do not want the Minister to ment and misdeeds of the Government. get out of character and indulge in Is it any wonder they cannot balance their propaganda of that type. It makes me think budgets? When they came into power they that he is whistling in the dark to keep his rushed in spending huge sums of money. courage up. Indeed, they wasted money. We all know Mr. Richards goes on to say- about the suite at Parliament House that was repainted. They wanted to build a "The public has been obliged to rely wing on Parliament House that would cost upon statements from Government sources £30,000. In my area they wasted £80,000 and from the hospital board. to resume land for a new Main Roads "And these, almost without exception, building. They could have built many have been optimistic in tone and have told houses with that amount of money. I asked of plans for new hospitals and new equip­ the Minister for Development, Mines, Main ment in Brisbane and country centres. Roads and Electricity a question about the "Within the hospitals however, I have plans and specifications for that building. encountered an entirely different story. He tried to ridicule me by saying that you do not get plans and specifications until "Here is the view of the medical staffs you have the ground ready. They have got and doctors, issued on their behalf by the it. It has cost them £80,000 but they are president of the Queensland Branch of the not going to put a shed on it. God knows British Medical Association (Dr. P. A. where else they have wasted more money. Earnshaw): If we had a Public Accounts Committee I 'The Queensland Branch of the am sure we would find more ways. They B.M.A. feels that the time has come are not a business man's Government at when it must address the people of all, but a wasteful Government. The only Queensland and tell them of the serious Ministers on the Treasury benches capable defects that exist now in Queensland of doing the job are the Minister for Agri­ hospitals. culture and Forestry, the Minister for 'These deficiences are well known Development, Mines, Main Roads and Elec­ within the profession. They have caused tricity and the Treasurer. The Govern­ our members great concern and our ment should sack the rest of them and try members feel that unless urgent correc­ some of the back benchers. tive measures are undertaken they must Mr. HARRISON (Logan) (9.37 p.m.): I become progressively worse on account am sure hon. members will feel exhausted of the continuing advances in and the after the vigorous presentation of his speech increasing costs of the medical services'." by the hon. member for Brisbane. In speak­ I think all hon. members will agree that ing to the Financial Statement presented by Dr. Earnshaw is a very reputable doctor. the Treasurer in his customary, clear and lucid style I should say that in the present Dr. Noble: In spite of your efforts, we will keep the free hospitals system going. financial circumstances the Budget repre­ sents an approach by the Government to Mr. MANN: I am glad to know that the their financial responsibilities that shows Minister will do that, because it is part of common sense and good judgment. Con­ Labour's policy, but I challenge him and fronted as they were with a record, yet other members of the Government to get up insufficient, revenue to meet fully the ever­ in the Chamber and deny these allegations increasing demands from all directions, made publicly and published in "The Courier­ every effort has been made to ensure an Mail" about the administration of the equitable sharing of the available funds by hospitals by the Government. I believe I all sections. It seems that the Budget must have supported very fully the case put for­ always be, to some extent, the victim of ward by my Leader. circumstances. For example, here in Queensland we are experiencing the effects Mr. Chalk: Whose side are you on­ of a long run of unfavourable seasons. I Egerton's, or Williams's? should say that we are experiencing their effects much more than we have felt the Mr. MANN: That is why the railways temporary restraints imposed by the Com­ cannot pay. The Minister wants to be monwealth Government in an effort to bring facetious about everything. He wants to the national economy back to a sounder Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 805 level. In their criticism I feel that hon. of prices received to prices paid for our members opposite appear to be overlooking primary products. I will briefly mention the fact that you cannot have a £20,000,000 them again. For the year 1959-1960 the reduction in the income from five of our figure for the general average of all our main primary industries without the effect primary industries had fallen to 82 as com­ of that loss of spending power being spread pared with a basis of 100 during the five­ throughout the whole community. Not only year period ending June, 1930. I expect that, while drought conditions prevail there that the figures for 1960-1961 will show an is always a natural tendency on the part even worse relationship between the of the primary producer to curtail or post­ prices we receive for our products and the pone his expenditure on new improvements, cost of producing them. So, it seems that, and even on normal maintenance. Natur­ as a people, we have allowed a greater share ally that has made the position worse. I of our reserves of capital to be used in should say that because of the erratic inci­ building up this ever-increasing standard of dence of rainfall in Queensland, primary living with a complete disregard for preserv­ producers have become accustomed to ing our capacity to trade with the rest of expect years when they have ups and downs. the world. Up to the present the respon­ Very often the effect of that isolated year sibility for producing export goods capable scarcely has time to seep through to the of competing on the world markets has been general public before we are back to normal left entirely to our primary industries. We and there is not a proper recognition of can ask ourselves, "Why have not our the difficulties of primary producers when a secondary industries shared this responsi­ drought is of limited duration. bility?" The answer, of course, is that with few exceptions our high cost structure has We are facing a very different story now. For made it impossible for them to compete with five years we have missed out on our usual other countries. Our secondary industries monsoonal rains, and the effect of such a seem to be content to supply the home long stretch of under-average rainfall has market where they have the opportunity to not only depleted the income of our primary pass on their high costs, and in many cases producers but is now being felt by the whole those high costs are the result of tariff community. protection granted against competitors from Unfortunately, this disturbance caused by outside Australia. It is true that we should the seasons to our general economy has develop sound secondary industries as quickly come at a time when there has been a as possible, just as it is true that to the very serious decline in world prices for many extent that they provide employment for an of our rural exports. On top of that too increasing population, primary producers it has come at a time when many of our get the advantage of an enlarged home exporting industries are finding their costs of market. However, it seems to me that production too high to permit them to too many people think that, as long as we compete profitably on the markets of the have what we call full employment, we are world. achieving the maximum in the rate of progress and prosperity. For some years, primary industries' organisations have been trying in vain to Mr. Houston: Does not one follow the draw attention to the inevitable consequences other? of continuing the dangerously high cost structure that we so very proudly, and I Mr. HARRISON: The mere provision of would say very foolishly, regard as a sign jobs for everybody does not mean that we of Australia's prosperity. Surely as a young are correcting the imbalance so apparent in country, we must recognise that we are still our economy today. They must be the right heavily dependent upon our rural industries sort of jobs. They merely accentuate the for our survival. We should be making cost factor unless they are jobs that contri­ every effort to preserve a cost structure more bute something to national development. in line with that of the countries with which we trade. Mr. Houston: That would be right, but you must have the work to start with. The maintenance of that type of policy is so obviously in the interests of everybody, Mr. HARRISON: Hon. members opposite whether it be capital or Labour, that it is get alarmed at the first sign of unemploy­ hard to understand how, as a nation, we ment. None of us likes to see it, but we have drifted into this position. Even long never seem to pay sufficient attention to before we faced this new threat of loss of the fact that with proper national planning markets through the projected entry of Great there should never be a shortage of construc­ Britain into the Common Market, we were tive work in Australia. I shall give one or headed for trouble. I fail to understand two instances. Take the failure to provide why we have been so thoughtless in our an adequate water conservation programme approach to our own future security, both in Queensland. internally and externally. Our relationship An A.L.P. Member: By this Government. between the primary industries and the general community has got out of balance. Mr. HARRISON: That is not so. Such Only the other day I quoted figures in this a programme should have top priority, on Chamber to show this imbalance in the ratio a basis of Commonwealth and State 806 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

co-operation. Commonwealth and State amount of money available to the depart­ co-operation in constructive work would ment will preclude any expansion over and absorb labour in that type of work and at above the work already undertaken. I shall the same time ensure that we get regular tell hon. members something about this work. production rather than production endangered It falls into three main fields. First there is by the erratic seasonal influences that apply extension work that involves carrying into the in Queensland. field the knowledge and information gained from the second field, which is research. Mr. Houston: You must admit that the That research is into uhe endless problems Commonwealth Government are not associated with agriculture and animal pro­ co-operating with the State. duction. The third field covers the depart­ ment's other responsibility to carry out the Mr. HARRISON: I agree that we could many regulatory provisions contained in the do with more of it. It may in the end be a various Acts dealing with primary industries. good thing if the recent credit squeeze The whole scope of the activities of the coupled with the looming threat of the Department of Agriculture and Stock is very European Common Market to our export well set out in the annual report. It tells a industries awaken our people to the fact story of absorbing interest to all who that as a nation we may be in for some have an understanding of the importance of pretty rude shocks. I :hope enough people our land industries to Queensland. I am will realise that unless we put our house in sure that includes all hon. members. There order there will be an end to the old belief would not be time tonight to recount the that everything must continue to go on story in detail but I want to mention a few smoothly for Australia. Another popular matters that I regard as being of particular belief we have to discard is that the job interest. For example, I regard as extremely of overcoming economic difficulties is important the work the department has done, regarded as one solely for the Government. and is still doing, to establish better crops It is true that the Government must take and especially better pastures that will contain the lead and must lay down proper and grasses and legumes suited ~o . the varying appropriate plans for action, but the success climatic conditions that prevml m the State. of all those plans to a great extent always To illustrate my point and to illustrate the depends on the co-operation of capital and department's approach to the matter I do labour. It seems odd to me that we should not think I could do better than quote a find it necessary to point out again and paragraph from the Division . of Plant again to fellow Australians the dependence of Industry section of the Report which reads- our economy on the continued prosperity of "Conserving surplus growth of crops our primary industries. Similarly, one would and pastures for feeding to stock w~en think it would be unnecessary to emphasise pasture growth is poor and of !my qual~ty, that the reckless game we have played for so the sowing of crops on land m wh1~h many years now with prices chasing wages, subsoil moisture reserves have been bmlt and wages chasing prices, must end in up by £allowing, the use of water for irri­ disaster for the very industries on whose gation from streams, underground sources exports we depend. We should be asking our­ and farm storages constructed to hold selves how much longer will it take before water which would otherwise run off pro­ these obvious facts sink into our national perties, and the planting of the best av8::il­ thinking. To the credit of primary industry, able strains of crops and pastures species we can point out that in spite of the difficul­ to suit our climatic hazards are all ties I have referred to, there continues to be avenues which can be exploited much a steady rise in the general level of efficiency. further in strengthening the resistance of If it were not so, I doubt if they would our primary industries against the irregular have been able to withstand the pressures and erratic distribution of the rainfall. put on them over recent years. I want Queensland's need for more drough~­ it to be understood that this general resistant strains of crops and pastures IS improvement in technique and quality is a ceaseless challenge to agricultural due not only to the efforts and initiative scientists. It has been said that bad times of primary producers themselves, but also have a scientific value. These are occa­ in large measure to the valuable assist­ sions a good learner would not miss. The ance that has been made available to weather pattern in 1960 and 1961 has primary producers by the Department of provided ample opportunity for lessons Agriculture and Stock. The work of the to be learnt by farmers, graziers and department is held in such high regard by scientists." the man on the land that tJhere is an ever­ I think that gives a very good idea of the growing demand for additional services objective of the department and of the from all over -the State. There is type and extent o\ research and ex~eriment unquestionably a real need for further expan­ being conducted mto a great var.Iety of sion of the work carried out by the depart­ problems in the fiel~s of .generai agnculture, ment and the ,cost involved would be repaid horticulture and ammal mdustnes. by handsome div_idends in the f.orm of increased productwn, better quahty and Mr. Davies: Will you admit that the lower cost of the product of the land. Australian Labour Party had a good record Unfortunately for this year the restricted in this department, too? Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 807

Mr. HARRISON: I admit that quite that small areas of lucerne used in conjunc­ freely. It was one of the previous Govern­ tion with large areas of native pastures ment's best departments. will overcome the winter and spring live­ Research stations and regional experi­ weight loss in normal years and increase the mental stations are now widely dispersed live-weight gains in good years. throughout Queensland, thus enabling on­ During the summer-winter-spring periods the-spot investigation of particular problems of November, 1959, to September, 1960, five created by the wide variation of Queens­ animals with five acres of supplementary land's soils and climate. lucerne and 25 acres of native pastures I should like to give the Committee in a gained 301 lb. a head, compared with a gain little more detail, some idea of the work of of 54 lb. a head for five animals on 30 acres the department. It is not generally realised of native pastures. This work alone points to what extent the Department of Agricul­ to the economic practicability of producing ture and Stock has been responsible for the chiller quality beef, with the assurance of a advances in pasture management and pro­ much extended killing season, which is of duction in the State. This applies not only paramount importance to the beef industry. to extension work but also to the more funda­ mental aspects of research. In extension These results are based on large numbers work it is necessary to mention only Towns­ of experiments throughout the State, on ville lucerne, green panic and buffel grass private co-operators' properties as well as on as illustrations of important pasture species research stations. During 1960-1961 there for Queensland whose rapid spread and use have been more than 500 pasture trials and have been due in large part to departmental demonstrations in progress on 14 experiment extension and demonstration work stations and on private properties throughout In research I would say it holds a unique the State. Of this number, nearly 300 were place. It was work by its officers in North financed by funds from the Australian Dairy Queensland which first broke the tropical Produce Board, the Australian Meat Board, pasture legume barrier with the discovery of the Wool Research Trust Fund, and Shell proof that the legumes centra and stylo Chemicals (Aust.) Pty. Ltd. Without this could be used with grass in pasture mix­ outside help this valuable work would be tures. This work has won recognition over­ greatly reduced. seas and has resulted in many research In talking about pastures, although my workers from other tropical countries visit­ purpose tonight is to deal primarily with the ing Queensland in order to examine these work being carried out by the Department highly productive pastures in the area in of Agriculture and Stock, I wish to put on which they were first proven. record the fact that the C.S.I.R.O. are also It was the State Department that proved doing very valuable work in pasture research for the first time in Australia the potential in Queensland. Full recognition of the need value of the subtropical legume Glycine, for and importance of this work was marked and the legume is now in commercial use by the establishment of the extensive Cun­ in pastures on the Atherton Tableland and ningham Laboratory in Queensland under the in other coastal areas. noted agrostologist Dr. Griffiths Davies. As a result a great deal of valuable work The Department of Agriculture and Stock has been carried out in recent years to also pioneered irrigated pastures in the State test and adapt types of grasses and legumes and has shown that high-yielding, high­ suited to Queensland conditions. Of par­ quality pastures can be grown anywhere in ticular interest to Queensland farmers and Queensland where water can be made avail­ graziers is the work of Dr. Mark ~utton, able in sufficient quantity at the right price. the officer in charge of plant breedmg at In co-operation with the Irrigation and Cunningham Laboratory. As a result of Water Supply Commission, this valuable his work a promising new legume, Siratro, work is proceeding in areas as far away as has recently been released. It appears to the Mareeba-Dimbulah region in north-east have a very wide adaptability in the main Queensland and Quilpie in South-west pasture areas of the State. Also of interest Queensland. is his work on improving the browse bush, Departmental research at "Brian Pastures" "Leucaena Glauca," which also gives promise Research Station near Gayndah has given of becoming an important legume addition the State a method of controlling bloodwood to Queensland's pastures. Co-operation and box regrowth without the use of poisons between the work of the Department of toxic to grazing animals. It seems possible Agriculture and Stock and the C.S.I.R.O. that some other eucalypts may be controlled is maintained by means of a pasture liaison in the same way. committee, which meets regularly. We can feel quite encouraged that by the splendid It has been proved on "Brian Pastures" work that has been done over the years that sown pastures, with suitable soil con­ by the Department of Agriculture and Stock, ditions, can double the carrying capacity and the additional work that the C.S.I.R.O. and treble the live-weight gains of native is doing in Queensland, we have great pastures. What is more important is that promise at last of overcoming the very departmental research work has demonstrated serious deficiency we have always been up 808 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply against in Queensland in not having grasses In the present state of development of the and legumes, particularly legumes, suited to industry in the Queensland endemic area, our climate. It has been a matter of con­ widespread vaccination is regarded as the siderable loss to our livestock industries most valuable protection. that we have not succeeded before in getting Intensification of the department's meas­ something in the nature of what they have, ures of control of this disease was commenced say, in Victoria, where subterranean clover in 1954 with the appointment of two, and is the mainstay that provides the basis for later four, specially trained officers to super­ all their wonderful pastures. Quite obviously vise the vaccination of travelling cattle and it is the effect of quite different climatic assist owners with special advice on property conditions. We have tried all these things control problems. So successful was this in Queensland that have proved to be approach that the number was this year successful in temperate climates, but they increased to 11 under an experienced veter­ will not thrive in Queensland unless grown inary officer. The proof of their efforts was under irrigation conditions. At last I think in the fact that no outbreak occurred in we are finding a number of good grasses travelling stock during the year. Of 165,000 that show signs of resistance to drought con­ travelling stock, more than 131,000 head ditions, and of sufficient aggressiveness to be were vaccinated by these officers and the able to persist. I feel sure that as this work spreads throughout Queensland suf­ remaining 34,000 head by the owners. ficiently we can look forward to the stage Information derived from the examination where we can double our production from of lungs of slaughtered cattle at meatworks the land. Perhaps it would not be exag­ was channelled back to field officers to assist gerating too much to say that we may be them in control measures. Some resolved capable of doing even better than that. lesions were found but only three active cases However, I regard it as one of the very were detected at the meatworks and con­ important works that the Department of firmed by laboratory examinations. Agriculture and Stock are doing in the pasture research and experiment field. That Protection on the property was not is by no means the end of the work carried neglected and with the assistance of. th~se out by the department that I should like special officers owners undertook vaccmatwn to refer to. You would need to read the of paddock cattle on an unprecedented scale. annual report, Mr. Dewar, to understand the Part of the plan is to roll back the margin­ wide range of work undertaken on behalf ally infected areas. All lungs from cattle of Queensland's land industries. Now, slaughtered from these areas were examined turning away from pasture research I have and some 3,000 blood samples tested in a some notes here that indicate the work that progressive eradication scheme. Only one of has been done to control contagious pleuro­ these specimens was positive. pneumonia which is one of the very serious stock diseases with which we have to con­ A new policy of releasing infected proper­ tend in Queensland. It is interesting to ties only after blood-testing of the whole herd put on record the very good work that has has shown that no carriers remain, is being been done in that direction. put into force wherever the practical difficul­ ties can be overcome and this should afford The department has had a long-term much greater protection to clean areas. scheme to rid the State of pleuro-pneumonia The main portion of the plan has been and has made a promising start during the suspended with the closing of the cattle cattle season just ended. Bovine contagious season, although the investig~tions of . t~e pleuro-pneumonia, known to the cattlemen marginal areas are still conti!lumg. But ~t IS as "pleuro" is the most serious infectious being mothballed so that 1t can go mto disease of cattle yet to gain a footing in operation again without delay at the com­ Australia. The estimated annual cost of this mencement of the next cattle season next disease to Queensland is now £750,000. year. I wish to quote another instance showing Although it was first introduced in the tremendous value of the work undertaken Victoria, it spread north to the Northern by the Department of Agriculture _and Stock Territory and North Queensland in six years and again I think it is worthwhile to say decimating herds in its path. Control of a word or two about another development pleuro depends ultimately on the degree of that is much newer-the use of artificial animal control so that it has now been breeding-A.!. as ~he stock-b_reeders. ea!~ it. eradicated from the southern States and It is a new techmque that 1s commg mto south-east Queensland. It still smoulders in prominence in Queensland much l~ter than in other countries of the world. Th1s matter the northern parts of the State where it has interested stock-breeders probably for represents a threat not only to the southern centuries but it was only around 1900 that parts of Queensland but also to New South extensive use was made of the me~hod and Wales and Victoria because the economy of the potential for herd-improvement was the industry is essentially based on the move­ understood. The demand for greater output ment south of stores from the breeding to of high-quaiity livestock products, particu­ the fattening areas. larly in the post-war period, 'has focused Supply [17 OCTOBER] Supply 809 increasing attention on the procedures, 1956, using semen air-freighted from the especially in the dairy industry. To illustrate animal research farm at Rocklea. That the extent of development in some overseas work proceeded until April, 1957, and amply countries I point out that the number of demonstrated that artificial insemination cows artificially bred each year in the United was a practical proposition. States is 7,000,000, in the United Kingdom about 1,500,000 and in New Zealand A small bull-stud was established at the 500,000. It can be realised therefore that regional experiment station at Kairi, in North we are starting a long way behind other Queensland, in September, 1957, and from countries. Nevertheless, the advantages of that time the Atherton pilot unit became self­ artificial insemination are considerable and contained. The service was experimental have been exploited overseas and in the State and restricted to that particular area at that in disease-control, improvement of general stage. In the meantime, farmers in other stock standards, and in lifting of production parts of the Tableland became interested and levels. aware of the advantages which artificial insemination held for them, and by May, The first attempt at a planned programme 1958, the Tablelands farmers formed their of A.l. in Queensland commenced in 1951 own co-operative artificial breeding associa­ when an outbreak of trichomoniasis-that tion and this became the first commercial is a venereal disease of cattle-was con­ undertaking of that nature. Since then, three trolled in the Brisbane region by the officers more centres have been established. One of the Department of Agriculture and Stock. has been established by Nestles at Gympie, Many diseases causing infertility and and another, has been established in my abortion respond well to control by A.l. and own district at Beaudesert. We have estab­ in fact artificial insemination at present is lished a co-operative artificial breeding asso­ regarded as the most valuable means avail­ ciation, and the third centre has been estab­ able to improve the fertility of dairy herds. lished at Dayboro. We must regard these centres as pilot groups, for they are under­ To indicate the seriousness of infertility taking very important work and it is most in our herds in Queensland I point out important that they should not fail. The that in 127 dairy herds of the State over initial stages of these groups is very inter­ several years is was found that 30 per cent. esting because all farmers do not believe in of cows showed one form or another of it straight-away and some of them would infertility and 40 per cent. of the cows culled sooner keep their bulls. Some farmers from herds and 28 per cent. of herds regard the charge made for artificial insem­ retained had infertility trouble. Although ination as a deterrent, but more and more the cost to the industry is difficult to assess are coming to understand the benefits to be it has been estimated as being about derived from the scheme, such as freedom £3,000,000 a year. It is plain therefore that from infertility diseases, and a good oppor­ the effects of overlooking the problem tunity for obtaining better production, plus or not taking steps to control infertility can the fact that they do not have to keep a cause economic ruin. bull, and therefore do not have to bear the It is interesting to note that artificial cost involved. Charges now are being insemination has improved the conception recognised as reasonable. rate over natural service by 15 per cent. Mr. O'Donnell: What are the charges? It has been said that with artificial insemina­ tion bulls can be subjected early in life to Mr. HARRISON: I am just going to tell a very exacting testing of their capacity to the Committee. In Atherton they get their !mprove production. It is very important semen free and charge 30s. but the group I m the use of artificial insemination that we am associated with charge 35s. for the first secure bulls that are what we call proven insemination and 1Os. for each subsequent for their performance and their ability to service-limited to the second and third transfer to their progeny those character­ services. So far as we know, that just about istics we are looking for, milk production covers expenses at present. By the time we plus constitution in dairy herds and in beef get to the stage where the department, under herds the ability to make rapid gains in my good friend the Minister, establishes the weight. In 1955 the Department of Agri­ bull centre at Wacol, we should be in a posi­ culture and Stock drew up plans for such tion to get semen made available much more exact testing of young bulls for use in arti­ cheaply. At present it is imported from New ficial insemination services. Jersey bulls South Wales at a cost of 10s. The work in have been under performance tests in the New South Wales is undertaken by the Milk Nambour-Maleny region since 1955 and Board at Berry and Aberdeen. A.I.S. bulls in a similar programme in the The development of the artificial breeding Kingaroy-Nanango region since 1958. centre at Wacol is the key to extension of Following the success of the Nambour pro­ artificial insemination in the denser dairy ject, and in view of the future developments communities of South-east Queensland at of artificial insemination in this State, the least. The department, realising the impor­ department undertook to investigate the tant role that artificial insemination can problems which commercial artificial insem­ play in assisting the dairying industry, has ination organisations might encounter in commenced the construction of this large­ Queensland. A field service was commenced scale artificial insemination centre for cattle on the Atherton Tableland in November, at Wacol. 810 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Questions

Mr. Davies: Those charges would be very association with the land and his common­ cheap, wouldn't they? sense approach to all its problems. Men in rural areas have the same feeling of Mr. HARRISON: We think they are confidence in and regard for the Director­ reasonable. We hope to get some assistance General of Agriculture, Dr. Summerville, the for this type of work from the Common­ Deputy Director, Mr. Webster, and all senior wealth Government just as they provide officers. It is a fact that under their adminis­ some assistance to encourage herd recording. tration and guidance the whole staff has been This will be just as valuable to the industry encouraged to work as a team, with the as the practice of herd recording. objective of lifting and improving the output The centre at Wacol, which is being estab­ from the rural industries of Queensland. The lished on a 70-acre site, makes provision for department is rendering a very valuable a laboratory, feed shed, isolation facilities service to Queensland, and I want the for introduced bulls and accommodation Minister and the Government to know that for 48 bulls. Allowance has been made the land-owners of Queensland appreciate the for increasing the bull housing to provide work being done by the department and the for 64 bulls when the demand warrants it. assistance they are getting from it perhaps more than the assistance they get from any The building was begun in April this year. other department. The site has been prepared; water, power, and telephone facilities have been provided; Progress reported. a residence has been built and the construc­ The House adjourned at 10.33 p.m. tion of the bull pens is well advanced. In preparation for this development the department commenced bull proving, using artificial insemination in 1955. This will mean that at least three adequately proven bulls will be available when the centre commences operations. The work of the department in bull proving will also mean that a nucleus of well-trained staff will be available to operate the centre and to train inseminators. With the completion of this ambitious project, the Department of Agriculture and Stock will be able to provide yet another worthwhile service to the primary producers of the State. I was glad to be able to give this infor­ mation because it is a new development of great importance. I will not keep the Com­ mittee at this hour of the night to tell them a great deal more about the department's work because I am going to recommend to hon. members that they read the report. They will find it a very interesting document. The work of the department has a very important bearing on the success of all our land interests. From the brief account I have been able to give tonight I am sure all hon. members will have gained an indica­ tion of the value that the landowners them­ selves place on the work of the department. Mr. Davies: It is not known enough. The public generally do not appreciate it. Mr. HARRISON: That is what I am try­ ing to point out. I hope no hon. member finds it boring but it is rather late in the night to go into much more detail so I will let it go at that. I think hon. mem­ bers who are interested will look these mat­ ters up for themselves. There may be an opportunity to add some information dur­ ing the debate on the Estimates. In conclusion, I say that there is a very understandable feeling of confidence in the Minister in charge of the department, Hon. 0. 0. Madsen, because of his own life-long