[Wednesday, 20 October 1982]102 4023

Over the last seven or eight years this Parlia- linitutiur Aancmb1ll ment has been in the habit of having successive Wednesday. 20 October I1982 Budgets brought before it which have been, in the eyes of unbiased observers, sound and responsible and the Government of the persuasion of this The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Trethowan) Government has built up a reputation for took the Chair at 2.15 p.m., and read prayers. itself-for its management ability in regard to the State's finances. This has been a result of its BILLS (2): INTRODUCTION AND FIRST having such an illustrious Treasurer as it had over REA DING the last eight years, in the person of Sir Charles Court. The people of this State could hardly have I1- Borrowings for Authorities Amendment expected that the new Treasurer could excel the Bill. performance of Sir Charles Court over the years. Bill introduced, on motion by Mr However, as we all now know, that is the situation O'Connor (Treasurer), and read a first that occurred this year. time. The first Budget brought down by the Premier 2. Land Amendment Bill (No. 3). has been acclaimed unanimously throughout the Bill introduced, on motion by Mr community as not only responsible, but also very Laurance (Minister for Lands), and much in tune and in keeping with the current read a First time. economic circumstances of this State. That is not only my opinion, but also the op- APPROPRIATION (CONSOLIDATED REV- inion expressed by many people after the Budget ENUE FUND) DILL was brought down. I can say, without any possi- bility of being questioned, that this has been the Second Reading: Budget Debate unanimous opinion of the leader writers in papers Debate resumed from 19 October. throughout the nation. For the record, I would like to quote from some of these newspapers to MR HERZFELD (Mundaring) [2.21 p.m.]: The legislative programme with which Parliament ensure that the point I am making is understood. deals- Firstly, I refer to our local newspapers. In The West Australian on I October. the following Mr Pearce: Name me in Parliament! article appeared- Mr O'Connor: Give him a go! The State Government has shown com- Mr Pearce: I was not speaking to him. Will the mendable responsibility in the Budget Premier control his fellows instead of having them brought down yesterday. It has managed, in mouth things across the Chamber? the face of increasingly difficult economic The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Trethowan): conditions, to balance its books and at the Order! The member for Gosnells! The member for same time stimulate employment. Mundaring is on his feet and I ask him to direct Further on it continues- his speech to the Chair. I ask members to hear In some ways the Government has him in complete silence unless the interjections achieved a small miracle- have some bearing on the debate. Mark those words-"small miracle". It con- Mr Tonkin. The member for Mt. Marshall tinues- thinks it is very funny. -in managing to make its sharply pruned Several members interjected. revenue stretch as far as it has. The ACTING SPEAKER Order! Further on it reads- Mr HERZFELD: The member for Gosnells It is a Budget from which other govern- has made a longer speech than I have. I managed ments-in NSW, Victoria and Canberra- only to get about six words out. could learn a lot- If I may be permitted to attempt to start again! Great praise indeed for the Treasurer. I was saying that Parliament considers a great deal of legislation in any particular sitting, but of Mr Davies: Who wrote that article? all the legislation it considers that which is the most important to the welfare and well-being of Mr HERZFELD: It was written by the leader the people of this State is unquestionably the Bill writer for The West Australian. seeking to appropriate funds. it is this Bill to I refer now to The Western Mail which is not which I address my remarks. renowned for its support for the Government. 4024 4024[ASSEMBLY]

Mr Davies: Cut it out. By contrast the Victorian and NSW Mr HERZFELD: In The Western Mail on 2 governments have imposed a surcharge on October, an article was published which read- payroll tax- At a time when other State Governments Weall know that payroll tax acts against job cre- are finding out the hard way about the facts ation. To continue- of financial life, the WA Budget brought -which with increase the cost of-i$-b-ur just down this week stands as testimony to com- as the number of jobs available is falling. mon sense. Because of its concentration on infrastruc- A Government member: Hear, hear! ture-type projects, the extra spending is necessarily concentrated in capital works. Mr HERZFELD: Again, loud praise. 1 turn This is better than expanding the State bu- now to the Sunday Independent in which the fol- reaucracy and will create jobs. lowing article was published on 3 October- In his debut, Premier Ray O'Connor has Again, that is praise when we compare our situ- ation with that of other States which, as we know, set the pace for the eighth consecutive year are controlled by Labor Governments. by presenting a balanced Budget. I would like to The WA Government has shown remark- quote from one further editorial in which praise has been accorded to the able restraint by opting for a freeze on taxes and the Sunday Independent applauds the in- Treasurer for our Budget. This appeared in The creased levels of exemption for the iniquitous Can berra Times of 17 October, and it states- payroll tax. In these straitened times few Budgets are referred to as boring-but that was the word Those comments alone stand as condemnation of used by the Leader of the Opposition, Mr the comments made by the Leader of the Oppo- Burke, to describe on the Budget and 1will come to those com- the WA Budget brought sition down last week by the Premier and ments shortly. If those Press articles are not enough, let us look at the comments that were Treasurer, Mr O'Connor. published in some of the national papers. In The Mr Burke said it was pedestrian and Australian on I October the following appeared- "likely to be forgotten by the weekend". The Budget, although balanced, expands Certainly it is not spectacular, but prob- spending by a massive 28 per cent, against ably Mr Burke was defeated by the fact that which even the new Victorian Government's there is little in it to attack and a great deal Budget must pale into insignificance. to praise. Of course, there is a vast difference in the purpose Note those words, "a great deal to praise". It con- to which the Budgets will be put in Victoria and tintles- Western Australia- It is another example of the good house- Mr Wilson: Housing, for instance. keeping principles followed by Mr Mr HERZFELD: -and this is explained in the O'Connor's predecessor, Sir Charles Court. article as follows- Point of Order But there is an important difference be- tween the two. There were no tax increases, Mr TONKIN: Mr Acting Speaker (Mr unlike the Victorian Budget. Trethowan), I rise on a point of order. It has been a long-standing precedent of this House that Of course, it refers to the Western Australian Budget and to the fact that there were no tax in- members should keep quotations from newspapers to a minimum. creases in Western Australia. The article con- tinues- Mr O'Connor: Your leader read his whole speech last night. Most of the expanded program will be financed by borrowings, and then mainly for Mr Pearce: He read a bit of it-he did not read the North West Shelf natural gas project and his speech. electricity projects tied to resources projects. Mr O'Connor: He admitted he read his speech. Indeed, in his first Budget the Premier, Mr Mr Pearce: He did not. O'Connor, has managed a slight tax Mr TONKIN: I do not necessarily agree with. reduction. There has been some reform of that precedent, and I do not necessarily object to stamp duty but regrettably not along the the member for Mundaring quoting at length. reformist lines of Victoria or NSW. But at However, in raising this point of order, I make the least it is a move in the right direction. point that sometimes the Chair is not always im- [Wednesday, 20 October 19821 424025 partial and I would hope it is noted that the mem- After hearing the Treasurer's introduction of ber for Mundaring is quoting extensively from the Budget, outside the House the Leader of the newspaper editorials. If any member on this side Opposition referred to it as being boring and ped- of the House should want to do the same thing, estrian. Then last night in this House he made a the same courtesy should be extended to him. speech which could be described in the same way. Mrs Craig: Just as you did with the MVIT Most certainly he did not address himself to the legislation. Budget. He deliberately avoided the Budget and he wasted an hour of the time of this House read- Mr Tonkin: I am happy about it, as I said. ing from some documents which quite obviously The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Trethowan): I he did not understand; documents which had been did not notice that the member for Mundaring prepared by someone else and which had little rel- was reading at great length. As it is not possible. evance to the problem which needs attention. So, under Standing Orders, for the member to seek to on the one hand, the Treasurer and his Govern- have material incorporated in Hansard, I believe ment are being lauded across the nation, and, in- it is permissible for the member to quote these deed, in this State, and, on the other hand, the passages in order that the precise wording is re- Leader of the Opposition gave a lack-lustre per- corded. Should it continue for some length of formance that does not even earn him his keep in time, perhaps some action could be taken and this place. then the material could be paraphrased. However, I do not believe Let me refer to the state of the economy. Most that is the case up until now. The of us in this House, and indeed, most people in the member for Mundaring. community, have come to recognise that the econ- Debate Resumed omic situation is not good. Mr HERZFELD: Mr Acting Speaker, when- Mr 1. F. Taylor: That would be the understate- ever one makes a telling point, Opposition mem- ment of the year! bers jump up to object. Mr HERZPELD: This state of affairs has been Mr Tonkin: I said I was not objecting to your caused by two major factors. Firstly, the world is doing it. in a state of economic recession. Through the Mr HERZFELD: I assure the member for foresight and active work of successive Liberal Morley that I read material only when there is a Governments in this State over the last two dec- purpose in my reading it. ades, WA exports large quantities of iron ore, Mr Tonkin: I was not objecting to your doing alumina, and other minerals. We are, however, so, as 1have- made clear. dependent on the world economy, and it is only natural that when the markets for those com- Mr HERZFELD: There is a very good purpose in my referring to these editorials. When I was modities deteriorate, our State suffers. Had it not been for the foresight and work of previous co- interrupted. I was quoting from The Canberra alition Governments, we would not have had the Times. The last point that the leader writer was export of these commodities to rely on, and making is this- although at a reduced level of activity, our exports For a pre-election Budget (the State elec- have protected us to a certain degree. tion is due early next year), it is remarkably The second problem we face is the wage restrained. It could also be described as a factor goods and providing services as com- minor miracle in the face of the in producing Federal pared with that of our trading competitors. This Government squeeze on State funds. point was made clearly in the Treasury documents Mr Sibson: Hear, hear! which accompanied the Budget papers and which Mr H-ERZFELD: It concludes- were tabled in this House. The very first para- But since it seeks to boost the economy graph refers to this fact, and surely we could not while restraining government expenditure, it have people more impartial and more competent is a Budget which other States and Canberra to express views on matters relating to the econ- should study with interest. omy than the very professional officers of the In quoting from these articles so extensively, I State Treasury. want to indicate to the House that this State, On the question of the effect on our economy, under its present leader, has become a pacesetter we find that the opening paragraph of the sum- in the economic management of the people's af- mary in The Western Australian Economy 1981- fairs. 82 is as follows- I want to indicate my total support for the During 1981-82 the effects of the world re- Budget. It addresses itself to the main economic cession on the Australian economy became problems facing us at the present time, and I will more evident. Depressed demand for exports refer to that economy in more detail later. and declining international competitiveness 4026 4026[ASSEMBLY]

as a result of rapid increases in labour costs realistic increases when considered in terms of the contributed to a slowing of growth in the increases in costs brought on, particularly, by the Western Australian economy during the very large wage rises. The increased charges were year. realistic when compared with the services offered; It is a matter of great concern to this House, and and certainly they were realistic when compared certainly to me, that we do not seem to be moving with the situation in other States. Again I refer to into an era in which the latter of the two problems the newspaper cuttings that I quoted earlier in my is understood and taken on board. Admittedly, speech, which cuttings drew comparisons with the even the President of the Australian Council of other States. Trade Unions, in August of this year, gave some I want to extend the comparisons with one recognition to the fact that wage demands and, State in detail, because that State provides a com- more particularly, demands for shorter working parison with the situation in a State with a co- hours and improved working conditions, had to be alition Government in power and a State that has moderated if jobs were to be protected under the an Australian Labor Party Government in very trying economic conditions that exist today. power-a Government of the same ilk as the The president was quoted prominently in the members of the Opposition who constantly, in newspapers as promoting the idea of moderation. public, criticise this Government for increasing It appears, however, that sectors of the union charges; but when it comes to this House where movement will not take heed of that advice. That they could be challenged on the statements by is a great pity, because it means, as has been said comparison with other places, one normally finds so often, that one man's increase will cost another that they are silent. For the record, I should make man his job. some comparisons with the situation in New South Wales. If we are to move forward and pick up the Of course, we know that through ill manage- opportunities that will be available to us, as the ment and bad management in New South Wales world economy improves, it is absolutely vital that over a period of time, that State is in dire straits we do all in our power to make ourselves as com- in regard to a number of public utilities. A crisis petitive as possible, because that is how we will be situation in regard to power supplies was reached able to create new jobs for those who at present, earlier this year; and it is well known that half the regrettably, are not able to ind gainful employ- industry had to go on short rations in the middle ment. of winter in order to survive the winter at all be- In the House last night, we heard from the cause fuel was so short. Of course, that shortage Leader of the Opposition the usual plaintive cry came about as a result of neglect and lack of that we are so used to hearing from Oppositions proper preventative measures because the Labor in regard to the question of whether the Govern- Government starved the power authority in New ment increased taxes in this Budget. It has been South Wales of the revenue to maintain and up- accepted far and wide, as I indicated earlier in grade its plant. By contrast, of course, the situ- referring to the newspaper cuttings, that great ation in this State is quite different. tribute was paid because taxes were not increased Let us have a look at the overall situation in minor ad- in this State. In fact, we saw some New South Wales, and the outcome of its justments downwards, particularly in the very im- finances last year. In Western Australia we know portant area of payroll tax. The Opposition keeps that, for the eighth successive time, the State was trying to confuse the public by saying, "Oh, yes, able to balance its Budget; but not so in New but you did increase charges." Of course, charges South Wales where the Government had a com- are not taxes. plete blow-out of its financial affairs. Its aggre- Charges relate to services provided by Govern- gate estimate for outlays for 1981-82 was $5.3 ment instrumentalities as trading con 'cerns. Under billion, but the Government actually spent, in ag- the Statutes, many instrumentalities are required gregate, $6.1 billion. That is a huge over-expendi- to operate on a break-even basis. Some of them ture of roughly $700 million. are not required to do so; and it is incumbent on We know the declared deficit was in the order the Government to make sure that they operate as of only $60 million. That Government used all profitably as possible, because any subsidies they sorts of devices-selling off the people's property have to receive from the Consolidated Revenue and then leasing it back-to cover that deficit. Of Fund are lost to other worthwhile priorities. course, that can be done only once and, the It is true that charges were increased earlier Government having sold off the State's assets, this year for electricity and gas, water, hospitals, eventually the point will be reached where rail and Mfl' fares, and port fees; but they were nothing will be left to sell and that is when the [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 424027 crunch wilt come. However, in order to try to heard such terms as "performance auditing", forestall that crunch, the people of New South "zero-based budgeting", and so on. The Leader of Wales have had to put up with huge increases in the Opposition has not bothered to explain those Government charges. I shall give members some terms to the House, but he has implied that these examples. The list is rather large, but I shall men- sorts of things do not occur in Government de- tion some of the more significant increases in partments. charges. Only this morning I attended a meeting, the Power charges increased by 60 per cent from purpose of which I shall not divulge, at which the the time that Government was re-elected in 1981 clear implication from the discussions with the and brought down its Budget, to the lime of this personnel involved was that the Public Service in Budget. Members can look at a whole host of this State concentrates on setting targets for other increases in charges as follows- improving efficiency and reducing costs. Percentage Increase Mr Wilson: You are fairly easily con- Court charges 25 vinced-hook, line, and sinker! Conveyancing charges 30 Mr HERZFELD: It is very good to hear those Fishing licences 66 sorts of comments, because they give confidence Timber royalties 20 to those of us who have an impartial view on these Grain handling charges 20 matters-at least to those who do not want to Private employment agents' licences 60 mislead the community and create mischief-that Theatre agents' licences 900 the Public Service in Western Australia is ef- National parks charges IS0 ficient and effective. I do not suggest that pockets I doubt whether anyone in New South Wales will of inefficiency do not exist in certain areas, but I be able to afford to drink now, because liquor li- have never found a reluctance to do something cences have increased by 400 per cent. This one about it on the part of those responsible, if a will interest the Minister for Resources Develop- proper presentation is made and the matter is ment. Mining lease charges were increased by be- drawn to their attention. A typical example of this tween 100 per cent and 1 100 per cent. That is the is the Metropolitan Water Authority. For the last end of mining in New South Wales! 12 months, the Opposition, led by its leader, has The Minister for Transport would be interested tried- to know that waterfront rentals have increased by Mr Davies: Fancy being led by their leader! 700 per cent. That increase is understandable, be- Mr HERZFELD: I know the Leader of the cause the industry is in chaos in New South Wales. So many strikes have occurred and so Opposition does not lead the Opposition very often. On this occasion he has led it and not to his many ships are silting off the New South Wales credit. coast waiting to get into the port, that they have been called derogatively "Nev's Navy". No won- Mr Davies: He is doing a tremendous job. He der the charges have had to be increased. Another has made all of you jittery. interesting tax on the people is parking fines Mr HERZFELD: Over a long period-the which have increased by 400 per cent; and petrol meniber for Victoria Park was involved in this, tax has gone up by 3.Sc a litre. because he was the Leader of the Opposition at Mr MacKinnon: Is there anything that did not the time, going back to 1979-an endeavour was go up? made to create a perception in the community that there was something wrong with the oper- Mr HERZFELD: Judging by that list and ations of the MWB or the Metropolitan Water bearing in mind that I have not mentioned all the Authority, as it is called now. The Opposition increased charges, I doubt it. used all sorts of tricks and devices to try to create You, Sir, can see the situation that develops in that perception. a State which is run by people with a socialist Mr Davies: You tell me when I attacked the philosophy. It stands in stark contrast to the situ- Metropolitan Water Board. ation in this State where we have a Liberal- National Country Party coalition Government. Of Mr HERZFELD: I am not talking about the course, that speaks for itself. member for Victoria Park; I am talking about the present Leader of the Opposition. Over a period the Leader of the Opposition has been very busy running around the community Mr Davies: You said I was a party to it in trying to blind people with science, using wonder- 1979. ful sounding words to describe things which he Mr HERZFELD: I can well recall the mem- says the Government has not been doing. We have ber's standing up at Canning Dam, pointing to the 4028 4028[ASSEMBLY] water level, and saying, "The dam is three-quar- am not able to recall its name. However, its aim is ters empty." to review systems and to recommend to the auth- Mr Davies: Exactly: I was showing the people ority improvements in performance. the situation. The unit has not been operating for long,,but its Mr HERZFELD: Everyone knew we had been results have been spectacular. All this shows a through a prolonged drought, but the member for very keen desire by the authority to find whatever Victoria Park was trying to create the impression means available to it to improve its efficiency. To that the situation was so desperate that the date, in the unit's first year of operation, it has Government was being irresponsible, because it saved in excess of $2 million in the authority's op- had failed to introduce water restrictions. erations. Mr Davies: We were telling you what our pol- Finally, I will deal with comments made last icy would be in the election in 1980. night in a speech by the member for Gosnells in which he was critical of the provisions contained Mr HERZFELD: Now with the benefit of in the loan programme to provide money to com- hindsight, members opposite I am sure would mence improvements to certain schools in the have to admit they were wrong. State. He was critical of the fact that only Mr Davies: No; we had a better policy of water $20 000 had been provided in each case for about preservation. a dozen or so schools. Mr HERZFELD: Bearing in mind the I indicate to the Minister for Education that I planning and forward commitments made by the appreciate the method adopted and that it is a Metropolitan Water Authority, it is clear no great initiative because it means an early start can reason existed for anyone to panic. be made on essential educational building proj- Mr Davies: That is absolute nonsense! ects. The results will be twofold. Mr HERZFELD: However, for electoral pur- Mr Pearce: Early starts have been on for six poses, the Opposition wanted to create an atmos- years. phere of panic in the community and it failed dis- Mr HERZFELD: The member should go back mally. to his afternoon tea. Mr Davies: You were overcharging for water Mr Pearce: If you criticise my speech you and it was our policy to reduce that impost on the should be able to accept criticism of yourself. people. That was of little concern to you and if Mr you are too dense to see that was the tenor of the HERZFELD: Two reasons can be found to attack, I am sorry for you. show that this is a very good initiative. The first is that it will ensure the earliest possible commence- Mr HERZFELD: I do not know what the ment of building takes place, which means that member for Victoria Park is mumbling about. the educational facilities given priority in this way Mr Davies: You will read it in Hansard, be- will be completed and furnished for the com- cause I am sure the reporter is getting it down mencement of the 1984 school year. Had this while you are wondering what sort of comment course of action not been taken there is every like- you should make about it. lihood that at least some of these commencements Mr HERZFELD: I do not intend to be side- would have been delayed, preventing buildings tracked from my speech by the ramblings of the from being completed by the commencement of member for Victoria Park. the 1984 school year, so causing disruptions in the Without question, the Opposition set out to cre- schools. ate the perception that something was wrong with The other advantage is that it allows commit- the way the Metropolitan Water Authority ments to be made and contracts to be entered into handled its affairs. However, it was a wonderful at the earliest possible date as an encouragement opportunity for the authority to tell the people and a very significant contribution to the stimu- exactly what it was doing. lation of the building industry. The initiatives Sitting supendad from 3.01 to 4.07 p.m. taken this year are most appropriate and most welcome. Mr HERZFELD: Prior to the suspension, I was referring to the operations of the Metropoli- Mr Pearce: Are you suggesting contracts are tan Water Authority and I was being critical of signed before the Budget amounts are allocated? the prolonged public criticisms by the Opposition Mr HERZFELD: No doubt it was a lack of of the efficiency of the authority. I was about to understanding on the part of the member for draw attention to the very efficient little unit the Gosniells as to how one goes about a building proj- authority has in its structure but, unfortunately, I ect that caused him to criticise this allocation. [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 402902

The situation is this: Sufficient moneys are pro- 0Give maximum emphasis to building vided in the Budget for the Public Works Depart- and construction projects throughout the ment to go to tender and to sign contracts for the State with priority given to work which preliminaries to go ahead. can be commenced quickly. Mr Pearce: That is $20 000-worth of * Give priority in the Consolidated preliminaries only. Revenue Fund Budget to expenditure on maintenance of assets, minor works and Mr HERZFELD: Sufficient money has been purchase of equipment. provided by the Budget to allow the preliminaries * Provide payroll tax relief particu- to go ahead. Provision will be made in next year's larly for small businesses. Budget for progress payments, and so on. * Provide funds for special youth em- Mr Pearce: In next year's Budget? How can ployment training within the public sec- you say that when you might not even be in tor to enhance job opportunities and ad- Government then? ditional assistance to group schemes for Mr Sodeman: That is wishful thinking. the employment of a ppren tices. Mr HERZFELD: Instead of criticising, the In each of those areas I find the Budget to be member should be thanking the Government for good, and certainly it has my support. taking positive action to stimulate the building in- Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr Tonkin. dustry. (Continued on page 4057.) Mr Pearce: This is another distortion similar to NATURAL DISASTER: DROUGHT that of the member for Bunbury last night. Eastern States: Standing Orders Suspension Mr HERZFELD: I wish this member would shut up. Mih BRIAN BURKE (Balcatta-Leader of the Mr Nanovich: Hear, hear! Opposition) [4.16 p.m.]: I move without notice- Mr Pearce: The member for Bunbury last night That so much of Standing Orders be sus- talked about $1 million- pended as would prevent the Leader of the Opposition from moving- The SPEAKER: Order! The member for That this House calls upon the Prem- Gosnells will desist from interjecting. ier to urge the Prime Minister as a mat- Mr HERZFELD: I thought the member for ter of urgency to support the organising Gosnells and his colleagues would have had the of hay and grain supplies grown in decency at least to give credit where it is due, but Western Australia for transport to apparently they cannot do even that. drought affected areas in the Eastern Mr Pearce: We don't give credit for $20 000. States as a drought relief measure. The SPEAKER: Order! The member for In approaching the Prime Minister he Mundaring does not make my job any easier by should make clear the responsibilities provoking a member I have asked to desist from which the Governments of the various interjecting. I suggest to all members of the States and the Commonwealth will need House that should they request the protection of to accept to ensure the effective oper- pro- ation of such a measure. the Chair and receive it, they should not then The SPEAKER: I advise members that, for this ceed to poke a stick at those who have been in motion to be resolved in the affirmative, it will re- their views giving them a problem. quire an absolute majority. Mr HERZFELD: I still say it is quite appropri- ate for members of this House to give credit Question put. The SPEAKER: where credit is due-when it is obvious that the Having counted the House, and there being no dissenting voice, I declare Government has followed a good course. that there is a constitutional majority and that the mo- In conclusion I can do no better than to quote tion is resolved in the affirmative. from the Budget speech of the Treasurer so that Question thus passed. the Budget is taken in its proper perspective and context. He said- Eastern States: Motion What this budget is about is people, jobs MR BRIAN BURKE (Balcatta-Leader of the and housing. The aim of the budget and the Opposition) [4.18 p.m.]: I move- capital works program to follow is to:- That this House calls upon the Premier to * Channel substantial additional urge the Prime Minister as a matter or funds to housing. urgency to support the organising of hay and 4030 4030[ASSEMBLY]

grain supplies grown in Western Australia Primary Industry in this place has expressed res- for transport to drought affected areas in the ervations about the plan to bring stock to Western Eastern States as a drought relief measure. Australia, and that significant primary producer organisations have expressed reservations about In approaching the Prime Minister he whether it is, firstly, efficient and, secondly, poss- should make clear the responsibilities which ible to bring stock to Western Australia in a way the Governments of the various States and that would be of assistance to drought-affected the Commonwealth will need to accept to en- farmers. I will repeat that the delay caused by the sure the effective operation of such a Prime Minister's failure to respond is rendering measure. Western Australia less able to assist, and that is The Opposition does not believe it wilt encounter not good. much objection to this motion from Government Mr Blaikie: Why? members in this House because the relief of the Mr BRIAN BURKE: In a moment I will ex- drought-affected areas in the Eastern States is plain why in detail, but essentially for the sake of something to which both sides of this House are convenience and cost-saving, farmers in this State committed. At the same time, it is important to need to Provide the feed at the same time as they understand that the capacity of Western Aus- provide their normal outputs. tralia to provide significant assistance has been decreased by the failure of the Fraser Govern- Mr Blaikie: That's absolute rubbish. ment to respond quickly to the plan put forward Mr BRIAN BURKE: A comprehensive survey by the Western Australian Opposition. of farmers in agricultural areas of this State indi- cates that farmers are very pleased to participate Mr Coyne: I think sheep already have come in a scheme, and at the moment are able to par- across from the Eastern States. What more could ticipate because of the timing of the possible the Minister do than that as a first step? scheme to maximise the effect. We must consider Mr BRIAN BURKE: The position may well be the added cost to produce the feed. Every day that as the Minister for Primary Industry in this State passes renders this State less capable of has indicated; that is, that serious reservations are participating fully-that is the point we are mak- properly to be held about the transportation of ing. stock from drought-affected areas in the Eastern Mr Blaikie: Do you represent the Balga pas- States to Western Australia. I know those reser- toral company? If you do, my God, it has no rel- vations have been expressed by the Minister be- evance to this. hind whom the interjecting member sits. All I am Mr BRIAN BURKE: The point stressed upon saying is that the capacity of this State to under- us by farmers to whom we have spoken is that take worthwhile relief is being restricted seriously they need to have a clear idea of whether the by the delay in which the Prime Minister has en- scheme is a possibility. If it is, they are situated gaged himself in responding to the programme now at the optimum point, firstly, to take part in put to him in a comprehensive fashion by this Op- the scheme and, secondly, to provide the feed at position. maximum levels to make the scheme effective. Mr Coyne: Thousands of sheep have already It is interesting to learn that the New South arrived, haven't they? Wales and Victorian Governments believe the Mr BRIAN BURKE: Mr Speaker, I will try scheme is an ideal one by which this State can once more to make the member for Murchison- help those drought-affected farmers in other Eyre understand that if the plan to transport feed States. Those Governments have welcomed the is preferable to the plan to bring drought-affected scheme, and the Minister for Primary Industry in stock to Western Australia, it is probably desir- this State has endorsed the concept. All we are able for the Prime Minister to address himself to saying by way of this motion is that it is time the the possibility of implementing our plan. Premier prevailed upon the Prime Minister to re- spond to the proposition. Mr Tonkin: Of course it is. Mr Coyne: Will you beiefly outline the Mr BRIAN BURKE: Whether stock is being scheme? moved at present is not really pertinent to the Mr BRIAN BURKE: I will go through the de- proposition that the more preferable plan should tails of the scheme; I will not go through them be at least considered and responded to by the briefly. All we are saying is that it is time the Prime Minister. I only can once again say to the Premier prevailed upon the Prime Minister to re- member for Murchison-Eyre that the Minister for spond. [Wednesday, 20 October 19821 403143

Mr Sibson: But what is the scheme? Mr BRIAN BURKE: The Prime Minister has Mr Old: Yes, the scheme. been overseas more frequently than all of the combined excursions by his predecessors going Mr BRIAN BURKE: The Minister for Pri- back as far as John Gorton or even Harold Halt. mary Industry refers to "the scheme". Serious If the member wants to use that excuse, he can doubts exist about his scheme. Ours has been pub- lished in detail; I will be pleased to go through it. say at any time the Prime Minister is overseas be- cause that is where he is likely to be. Mr Sibson: Where has it been published? Mr Sibson: He has been there as long as all of Mr BRIAN BURKE: It was prepared by a those people put together. committee of Labor Party members. Mr Parker: That is not true. Mr Coyne: Do they all come from Balga? Mr BRIAN BURKE: For the benefit of those Mr BRIAN BURKE: At least our scheme has members interested- been documented and circulated. Mr Parker: Your maths are not very good. Mr Coyne: Tell us about it. Mr BRIAN BURKE: The Minister for Pri- Mr BRIAN BURKE: -let me briefly quote mary Industry has not told anybody about his from one of the three Press releases the Oppo- scheme. I will return to the point at which I was sition published and circularised while the Minis- rudely interrupted. The Minister for Primary In- ter in this place did not propagate his scheme at dustry in this State has endorsed the concept of all. the scheme. Mr Blaikie: Could I get a copy of those Press A comprehensive survey of farming areas has releases? been carried out by members of the Parliamen- Mr BRIAN BURKE: Yes, the member can tary Labor Party, and the farmers and depart- certainly have a copy of them. They read as fol- mental officers to whom we have spoken have told lows- us two things: Firstly, they would be delighted to The elements of the plan are: participate in the scheme and, secondly, they are situated in time at the point where they can par- (1) Agriculture officers in drought-af- ticipate effectively and fully, provided the scheme fected states would assess the is not delayed any longer by a lack of response amount of feed required. from the Prime Minister., (2) Regional officers of the W.A. De- partment of Agriculture would ar- I have said previously to those members who range and possibly contract with interjected regarding the amount of feed to be W.A. farmers to produce feed for produced, that apart from normal intelligent con- the eastern states. siderations, the reason it is importantjfor there to be an early response, is that the farmers and the It may be that the Department of Agriculture's organisations that represent them to which we officers are not the most appropriate people to do spoke indicated that the most efficient way of pro- this, but there should be an ordered and compre- viding the maximum amount of feed to devote to hensive effort to ensure that farmers wishing to this scheme involved the provision of the feed at participate in the scheme are brought within its the same time as the normal output was being ambit. The article continues- produced. They said that time is the essence, and (3) The Commonwealth, as part of its we agree with that, and that if the scheme is de- drought relief programme, would layed much longer the farmers may not be able to provide funds for the purchase of participate as fully as they would like to. With the fodder from W.A. producers at every day that passes, farmers in this State be- ruling W.A. market prices. come even less able to participate in the scheme. (4) The W.A. Government would or- Despite the urgency of the proposition, there has ganise the transport of fodder to not been even an acknowledgment from the Prime rail sidings for cartage to the east- Minister. Despite the fact that the Governments ern states. of New South Wales and Victoria have (5) Australian national railways would introduced the scheme and welcomed it, and de- provide transcontinental transport spite the fact that the Minister responsible in this free as eastbound traffic is largely State has endorsed the concept, there has been no empty waggons. response from the Prime Minister. (6) Distribution of the fodder in the Mr Coyne: He has been overseas for about a drought states would be arranged week. by the governments of those states. 4032 4032[ASSEMBLY]

In that consignment there is an involvement by Mr BRIAN BURKE: The member for Vasse this State Government. In the major part of the should tell me how it should be done. transport there is an obligation on the national Mr Blaikie: You are saying that the Common- Government and in regard to the receipt and de- wealth Treasurer would carry out an economic livery, there is a rote to be played by the State cost evaluation. Would it go to Victoria and New Government to which- South Wales to do that? Having made that as- Mr Sibson: But you are talking about only the sessment it would then come to Western Aus- mechanics of it. You must direct your attention to tralia. It will probably rain in 12 months' time the problems of the future. and no action would need be necessary. Mr BRIAN BURKE: I am perfectly pleased to Mr BRIAN BURKE: I do not follow what the go through all those details. member for Vasse is saying. Mr Blaikie: I would appreciate it if you would. Mr Blaikie: How long will this take? Mr Sibson: Mechanics are quite easy. Mr BRIAN BURKE: The details were sent to Mr BRIAN BURKE: I wish the member for the Prime Minister on 12 October. Bunbury would be quiet for a moment. Even last Mr Blaikie: By you and also the Ministers in night the Government's leader was telling him to New South Wales and Victoria? be quiet, but he seemed incapable of that. Please Mr BRIAN BURKE: No, it was sent by me to let me continue. the Prime Minister and at the same time copies There is an obligation by Governments in the were sent to the other Ministers and to WA's States where the fodder is received to arrange for Premier. I do not know what the member is get- its distribution. ting so up tight about because his Minister has I will now state some of the details members endorsed the concept and says he has a similar are requesting. The principal requests for the im- plan. Has the member for Vasse told the Minister plementation of such a scheme are firstly a de- that it may rain in 12 months' time? tailed economic evaluation. Mr Blaikie: Not yet. (Laughter.) Mr BRIAN BURKE: Do not be silly. Ldo not Mr BRIAN BURKE: The Minister for Urban know why Government members would object to Development and Town Planning, with her track an economic evaluation of the plan because we record, should not be so jovial about things be- think it is essential if' we are to make the right de- cause at least the farmers with whom this plan cisions. We believe an economic evaluation could was discussed in this break up seem to be appreci- have been undertaken and completed by the ative of the initiative. I have yet to meet one local Prime Minister within 14 days. He should have authority which believes the Minister is doing a responded to our request by saying that he, or his good job. The Minister for Local Government advisers, believe the plan is feasible and that it is should not bother venturing to agree when she is being further investigated. Of course, that was not persona non grata with the local authorities for done. which she is responsible. The plan envisaged that the feed to be pur- As the proposal was put to the Prime Minister chased from Western Australian producers would in the letter that outlined the scheme these follow- be purchased at commercial rates and we were ing points were put to him. Firstly, there needs to able to say to the Prime Minister that the total be a detailed economic evaluaton of the prop- cost,' were the Commonwealth to shoulder the re- osition, Why would members opposite take excep- sponsibility envisaged in this plan, would be far tion to that? less than its commendable commitment made Mr Sibson: Who would do that? hastily to drought relief in the Eastern States. Mr Blaikie: How long would it take? We were able also to say to the Prime Minister Mr BRIAN BURKE: I understand it would be that it was very likely that all costs involved in carried out by the Commonwealth Treasurer. this scheme would be less than the costs involved Mr Blaikie: Three years later? in the transport of livestock to this State. Mr BRIAN BURKE: l am sure it could be car- Mr Old: What are the commercial rates? Have ried oat in a shorter period of time. I do not think you worked them out? You said you had them anyone on the -Government side would argue costed. about the need for some cost-benefit analysis of Mr BRIAN BURKE: I did not say that. I do the plan. not know Whether the Minister is listening. Mr Blaikie: I do. Mr Old: I find you hard to listen to. (Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 403303

Mr BRIAN BURKE: The Minister for I indicate to the House my support of the plan Agriculture might find it hard to listen, but I have enunciated by the Leader of the Opposition and I never seen previously a Minister get up in this would like to reiterate some of the events that place and say. "We have a plan", and when asked have occurred over the last few months which to produce it say, "I told an interviewer about it lead up to this most unfortunate situation in the on a commercial radio station." Eastern States. In 1932 there was an instance which reminds First and foremost, the figures provided by the me of the Minister and it refers to the election of BAE show that 51 per cent of the national wheat a Governor in Louisiana. A candidate was asked, harvest will come from Western Australia this "You have nominated for Governor; have you year and that, of course, flows on to other grain. done any advertising?" and he replied, "No." He It also means that the quantity of hay that is was then asked, "Have you published any pam- available is proportionately higher. In relation to phlets?" and he answered, "No." He was then the wheat harvest, of the 8.9 tonnes expected in asked, "Have you formed a committee to support Australia, 5.5 million tonnes will come from you?" and he replied, "No." He was then asked, Western Australia. "Have you told your wife?" and he replied. "No." Initially the proposition was for large-scale He was then asked, "How do you expect to win?" agistment in Western Australia. In The Sunday and he replied, "That is the chance you take." Times of 26 September 1982, the President of the That is like the Minister with his plan. We have a Chamber of Commerce suggested large-scale plan here that no-one knows anything about-we agistment of animals in Western Australia. That have a hidden plan. We have revisited upon us received minimal response from the Minister for today by this man a "Pilbara plan". Once agai n, Agriculture because on 27 September an article it never existed. We have a Pilbara plan and a pri- with the headline, "Sheep-help plan mary produce plan. The Minister is as weak as impractical-Old", appeared in The West Aus- water. Everyone in this House knows that the tralian. That opinion seems to have been changed Minister for Primary Industry was a fuel agent. somewhat, as I will indicate shortly. That is as far as his interest in agri.culture goes-he used to pull a pump. I am simply saying On 3 October a drought relief measure was an- that there is- nounced in The Australian Financial Review. It stated that the Federal Government would declare Mr Old: What is the cost of the venture? New South Wales, Victoria, and South Australia Mr BRIAN BURKE: Mr Acting Speaker (Mr as drought affected and it offered a subsidy of 75 Crane), would you please ask the Minister to de- per cent for sheep being transported from those sist from interjecting? areas to Western Australia. That represents a 3:1 Mr Old: You infantile little man, I mean big subsidy on freight to the west. Of course, the man-you are a fat man. Minister alluded to some of the limitations in Several members interjected. such a project. Mr BRIAN BURKE: I think the Minister will On 30 September, the following article ap- probably upstate some leave shortly. It is a plan peared in The Australian-- put forward in some detail to the Federal Govern- NEW freight subsidies were announced ment and it seeks an economic evaluation by the yesterday to encourage farmers in the East- Federal Government and it seeks a response. The ern States to send starving sheep to better Pastoralists and Graziers Association of WA pastures in Western Australia.. (Inc) has welcomed the plan and the Minister has A 15 per cent reduction in charges for supported the concept; and all we are seeking is drdught-affected sheep had been negotiated for the Premier to urge the Prime Minister to re- by VicRail, Westrail and Australian spond to the plan that has been advanced by the National Railways, he said. Opposition in this State. That suggestion also has been one of the fears ex- MRt EVANS (Warren) [4.38 p.m.]: I support pressed by the PIA. The West Australian of the motion. I October under the heading "Worry at plan for The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Crane): Order! E.S. sheep" contained the following- Do you second the motion? WA primary producers are worried about Mr EVANS: I was under the impression that a a proposal to bring up to a million sheep seconder was not required; however, I am happy from the Eastern States for agistment in to second it. WA. 01M7 4034 4034ASSEMBLY)

Ibelieve their concern is justified. The Country- Mr EVANS: The praccicalities of such a man expressed similar views, and at the same suggestion are questionable. time lauded the proposition of the Western Aus- Mr Old: Do not be so ridiculous. Be normal. tralian Branch of the Australian Labor Party. Mr EVANS: On & October, under the heading If we use common sense, we will see the "Sheep delay angers", it was stated that plans to impracticalities of our bringing these sheep to bring drought-affected sheep to Western Aus- Western Australia. Firstly, they are drought-af- tralia from the Eastern States seemed to be falter- fected; they would be weak and the mortality race ing. On 7 October, the Countryman published the would be high. Secondly, the cost of transport following article- from the Eastern States to Western Australia THE scene is set for WA farmers to buy would be considerable. In addition, as Australian several thousands of drought affected sheep National Railways will confirm, on the return from Victoria and South Australia. over 80 per cent of the trucks are empty. trip, Minister for Primary Industry, Peter Mr Grewar. How many sheep would come to Nixon, has acceded to calls from his State Western Australia? It would not be all 100 counterpart, Dick Old and grower organis- million of them. Probably, we could take only ation leaders for meaningful rail subsidies about one million sheep. which would facilitate farmer to farmer Mr EVANS: The suggestion is that a couple of sales. million sheep will be transported here. It will now be possible for WA farmers to Mr Grewar: That is an insignificant number. import sheep at prices which will not reflect heavy transport costs. Mr EVANS: Yes; that is the point. However, we must Now the Minister is starting to change his view- not underestimate the risk of such an op- eration. The member for Roe more than anyone point, would be aware of the dangers of disease and Mr Old: Never. pests being imported from the Eastern States. Mr EVANS: Initially, the Minister said the Only today, on the morning radio news, it was idea was impractical. Then he prevailed upon his announced that a secondhand header had had re- ministerial counterpart in the Federal Govern- moved from it some 2 kg of various seeds and ment to do something about it. other materials among which were four separate Mr Old: Aren't you talking about two different plants classified as pests in this State. That is only things? What abysmal ignorance. one example. Mr EVANS: I will come to the Minister in a The importation from the Eastern States of one moment. The Australian of 13 October contained million or two million sheep would present con- the following statement- siderable dangers to our industry. Although they THE West Australian Government was are allegedly to be bare shorn, they will not be yesterday considering recommendations on completely free of pests. They have been living ways to handle the possible influx of one under drought conditions. Even at the best of million drought-stricken sheep into the State. times, shearers would not be too conscientious in The article also referred to the suggestion by the their treatment of animals which were to travel Opposition that we look more towards the interstate. However, in a situation where they transport of feed to the Eastern States. To say the have been under tremendous pressure to keep least, the Minister's attitude towards the import- things moving, the risks will be alarming. Sheep ation of sheep seems to have modified. The West in Victoria suffer from such things as liver fluke Australian of 14 October under the heading and footrot, the control of which is not compar- "Drought relief plan is welcomed" reported the able with that exercised in Western Australia. Minister as referring to the plan to send stock They are two practical aspects of farmers' con- feed to the Eastern States in preference to bring- cern which need to be considered. ing drought-stricken sheep to this State for agist- We also must consider the practicality of bring- rnent. Once again, the Minister's emphasis seems ing trainloads of sheep to Western Australia. The to have changed. The article stated- Minister said the trains could return with feed. The State ALP has also put forward a He is talking out of the back of his neck. How can scheme to rail fodder to the Eastern States. we load stock trucks with feed? It is impossible, Mr Old labelled the ALP scheme as being and the Minister should know it. one month too late and typical of the ALP's Mr Old: You should know it, too, you dope. attitude towards the rural community. [Wednesday, 20 October 1982J103 4035

Two points can be made in response to that state- I will not go right through the article; but it in- ment: One is that the Minister has a temerity in dicates the situation that could apply with grains adopting that attitude because a great amount of and fodder. It is not good enough to allow the research went into our proposal. It is all very well people who are in a position to do so to take ad- for Governments to adopt that attitude; they have vantage of those in dire need. The Government, research facilities and departmental backing. It is by its generosity, should not assist people to make inappropriate for the Minister to vilify the Oppo- a killing: but it is happening! I see the need to ob- sition for its suggestion that the Federal Govern- viate the middle man by buying grain and ment needed to analyse the requirements of the trucking it to the east. It is happening now, on the industry, with the State Governments playing information that has been supplied to me. their part. That is the only way we can cope with Mr Coyne: Private enterprise at work! the problem. However, both the Federal Govern- Mr EVANS: Yes-when your friend is down, ment and this State Government have been tardy put in the boot! That is what it amounts to. That in taking up the challenge. sort of attitude in some members on the other side I refer now to today's announcement that some of the House would be understandable. 20 000 sheep are to be exported from Portland to Mr Coyne: It is better than socialism. Western Australia. I ask the Minister whether this Government intends to allow 500 000 sheep Mr EVANS: I do not think the colleagues of to be imported to Western Australia from Vic- the member for Murehsion-Eyre are impressed toria. If that is the case, the farmers of Western wtth the attitude that he disptays. Australia have a right to be concerned. One need in the organisation of drought relief further, while a certification is required at the is the prevention of the exploitation of disaster border to ensure the animals coming into the and the parties involved in it, and also the preven- State are disease and pest free, it does not take tion of an artificial shortage of fodder, with the much imagination to appreciate the problems intent of jacking up prices. Certainly the supply of which will arise in this area. I have referred fodder will receive a Government subsidy; but already to the 2 kg of foreign material removed that does not lessen the situation. Why should the from a secondhand header; one can imagine the taxpayers' money be given to people who are un- massive problem which would be caused by an in- scrupulous to that degree? flux of 500 000 drough t-a ffected sheep. The need for organisation and mobilisation I ask the Minister, if he cares to interject, should not be understated; nor should it fail to be whether it is the intention of the Government to realised. The proposal of the Leader of the Oppo- bring 500 000 sheep from Victoria to Western sition was that when three State Governments Australia. and one Federal Government are involved with the fodder available-of course, when it comes to Mr Old: I will answer that later. grains, the AWF and the Grain Pool would have Mr EVANS: I am concerned particularly about to be involved totally--somebody has to take the Victoria where, as I have said, the footrot control organisational initiative in relation to the pay- is not as good as it should be. That is a good cause ments, the need to underwrite, and everything for legitimate alarm to be expressed by the else. That is just not be ing done. farmers. We are faced with the question of the type of A corresponding aspect is more than referable; fodder. No doubt, when it comes to sheep, the 1 will quote a brief paragraph from The Aus- feeding of grain is preferable. When the oppor- tralian Financial Review. The proposal put by the tunity is available to feed manufactured or mixed Opposition was designed to overcome this situ- feeds, as the Minister said, we realise that it may ation of drought. We need organisation and mo- be preferable to increase the protein content and bilisation to ensure that advantage is not taken of Ship that to the east. That is quite reasonable;, but those who can least afford to suffer-the drought- when cattle are involved, the question of hay sticken farmers. That could happen, and as a mat- comes into it. ter of fact, it is happening now. The quote to Using the figures that are normally used by the which I referred earlier is as follows- economic section of the Department of Farmer unity in the face of drought has Agriculture, the Government could put a proposal apparently. ...and to some extent the tax- to the farmers in Western Australia, bearing in payers. mind that they do not have much hay-cutting The article alludes to the increase of a hefty season left. No farmer would cut an extraordinary $11.50 a tonne in feed wheat, which is something amount of hay knowing that he would not be able of the order of seven per cent. to dispose of it. When one considers the relative 4036 4036[ASSEMBLY] economics of the production of wheat with the just the first of the aspects. We have seed wheat stabilisation scheme, one realises that farmers are and other grain feeds including lupins. A role can able to budget to the level of the first payment be played by the AWl' and the grain pools. How- and the subsequent payments. They know the in- ever, the reaction from around the State has been come they have ahead of them. most interesting. At the onset, as the Leader of We are looking at something like $118 per hec- the Opposition said, the Ministers in the other tare, taking the wheat at $115 a tonne, yielding States were very keenly interested, and the follow- about three tonnes to the acre. Wheaten ha y ing is the sort of unsolicited telegram received would give a return of something of the order of here-- $153 per hectare at 48 bales per acre. Oats bring Drought relief fodder freight subsidy idea about $139 per hectare return, using the figure of excellent please promote scheme local hay re- $130 a tonne, which would mean that oaten hay serve 100 000 bales old season hay new would be something of the order of $178 at $56 a season for back up considerably more. tonne, and meadow hay would bring in the vicin- Mr Old: Where was that from? ity of $189 per hectare at $50, on the basis of Mr EVANS: Yarloop. That is just one area. $2.50 to $3 a bale. They are reasonable figures from which we could make calculations. The member for Avon has been approached by a number of people and I am certain the member Some fluctuations have been experienced; I for Vilgarn-Dundas will want to give an indi- quoted the increase of seven per cent in feed cation of the response he has had. wheat. This is only the start of what will occur. 1 come back to the salient point and indicate No farmer would cut hay unless the return was that the following was reported in the 20 October reasonably assured. The price of hay is excellent edition of The West Australian- now, but if everybody goes into the cutting of hay and we end up with a mountain of hay in this THE Australian Wheat Board will put State and no demand for it, the price would go aside a million tonnes of wheat to provide for through the floor. That is one of the reasons there drought-stricken farmers in the Eastern must be some organisation, and perhaps an States. underwriting of the subsidy level by the Federal That was said by the board's general manager, Government. This cannot be done without some Mr Max Moore-Wilton. organisation. This is the sort of thing that will be required, The costs for meadow hay include the har- but it is so lax, vague, and open-ended it appears vesting, baling, and some cartage on 166 000 hec- the Minister does not quite know what his own at- tares at three tonnes an acre, which would give titude is at this stage. Only yesterday evening, in something like 500 000 tonnes. As the farming reply to a question without notice by the Leader members of this House would know, it is not very of the Opposition, the Minister had some difficult to produce that quantity. It means only interesting things to say. The Leader of the Oppo- that as one puts the firebreak around the paddock sition asked- initially, one takes another cut. Taking into ac- Referring to his public criticism reported count the total area of the State, that would mean in the Press last week of the Opposition's a considerable increase in production. drought relief plan, criticism in which he said Having regard to the fact that it is possible to the plan was a month too late. organise transport through the Australian The Minister replied- National Railways, which has rolling stock re- turning about 80 per cent empty, we realise the The so-called plan is something which I cost to the Federal Government would be greatly had ennunciated about two days after the minimised. drought meeting in Melbourne and was broadcast on radio 6PR. I suggest that if the This is the sort of exercise that an Opposition is Leader of the Opposition.. not in a position to undertake in absolute detail, because it does not have the resources. We do not There were several interjections and the Minister have the research staff required to carry out the continued as follows-- full calculations. We cannot even determine the Mr OLD: The Opposition obviously picked full quantities involved. it up piece by piece and came out, four or It is necessary to get an estimate of what is re- five weeks later, with this magnificent plan. quired in the Eastern States and measure that However, nowhere has mention been made of the against the potential we have in this State. This is Minister's plan. Growing support came for the a starting point, but it does not stop here; hay is plan to send stock feed from WA to the Eastern [Wednesday, 20 October 1982]103 -4037

States in preference to bringing drought-stricken (1) to (3) 1 will spell it out again because I sheep here for agisiment, and that is the plan to obviously railed miserably before. I told which the Minister was alluding and the plan he the Leader of the Opposition exactly was not in answer to announced on 6PR; but if that is the only place it how it happened. It aquestion. It was an interview and I was was aired, surely the Opposition cannot be asked to report on the drought meeting blamed for taking umbrage at the Minister's atti- which was held in Melbourne. I have tude? The Minister was never one to hide his light discussed the matter fully with Mr under a bushel. Even if a litter of pigs from a Nixon in Melbourne and I suggested to prize sow was found at Poppanyinning, he would him that I was quite opposed to any get a headline out of it somehow. thought or trying to agist two million sheep in Western Australiai until we This is the most important rural matter in Aus- were able to asses the feed situation in tralia at present and here we have the Minister Western Australia. going to a talk-back show in the metropolitan No suggestion is made of what inquiries were in- area- itiated. I have no doubt that the normal depart- mental regional office reports would have been Mr Old: It was not a talk-back show. available to the Minister. However, it is not clear Mr EVANS: Then I take that back; but the whether these were distilled and refined into in- Minister made the announcement on 6PR, a com- formation that could have been used to ampliry mercial radio station in the metropolitan area. and mobilise the making available of the various ca tegories of fodder to the Eastern States. .Mr Old: That goes to every country radio I reiterate the concern of farmers in this State station in the State, and you know it. and my own concern at the prospect of there Mr Brian Burke: That is not true, which is why being 500 000 sheep from Victoria brought into he does not know it. this State. if that is to happen, it needs to be spelt out precisely under what conditions and what con- Mr Old: It goes to all except two, and one is in trols, and what the nature or the certification to Karratha. apply will be. If this is not done, the prospects of problems in WA are considerable. We must be Mr Brian Burke: But it goes to Karratha. told whether these sheep are to be sold in WA, Mr Old: Which does it not go to? whether they are to be agisted and returned, and just precisely what the situation will be. Mr Brian Burke: It does not go to the Geraldton area at all. Point of Order The SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the Op- Mr OLD: Mr Speaker, could you indicate what position and the Minister for Agriculture will de- motion we are debating? sist from their cross-Chamber conversation. The SPEAKER: The motion before the Chair reads as follows- Mr EVANS: It seems odd that the only an- nouncement of this magnificent plan to overcome .That this House calls upon the Premier to urge the Prime Minister as a matter of the most serious problem in rural industries in urgency to support the organising of hay and Australia should have been made on 6PR, when grain supplies grown in Western Australia the people vitally concerned in country areas of for transport to drought arfected areas in the Western Australia, including the Minister's own Eastern States as a drought relief measure. constituents, would have very little opportunity of In approaching the Prime Minister he getting to know about the plan. If it was to be of should make clear the responsibilities which such merit and of such a nature that he should the Governments of the various States and use it to denigrate the Leader of the Opposition, the Commonwealth will need to accept to en- why did he not announce the plan on the "Rural sure the effective operation of such a measure. Hour" and why did he not give it to the rural Debate (on motion) Resumed Press? MR OLD (Katanning-Minister for Primary Talking about his great plan, in reply to a fol- Industry) [5.10 p.mn.J: I thank members or the low-up question by the Leader of the Opposition, Opposition for their support or our activities in the Minister said- dealing with this interstate drought. They have 4038 4038[ASSEMBLY]

been very genuine in their desire to assist We know it would be quite uneconomical for although I do not admire the way they have gone the Commonwealth to provide a 75 per cent about expressing their attitude. freight subsidy to Western Australia and another We have had very close co-operation from, and 75 per cent subsidy back to the Eastern States, re- discussion with, the Federal Government. As the membering that the freight from Port Pinie, which member for Warren pointed out, the Opposition is the closest point to Parkeston, is close to $7. does not have the research capabilities available Mr Evans: Do you intend to bring 500 000 to it that are available to the Government. I sheep to Western Australia? understand that. Mr OLD: I do not intend to bring across any The Leader of the Opposition illustrated his sheep. I understand 100 000 sheep might come in, abysmal lack of knowledge of any rural activity but this is a commercial judgment, and that is when he talked about his plan to alleviate prob- another point I made when I criticised the plan. If lems caused by the drought. I was interested to people in particular circumstances have feed and hear about the comprehensive survey conducted wish to bring sheep from the Eastern States, that by the Opposition. Unfortunately, no details of is a commercial judgment. My understanding is that comprehensive survey were given. that one man will be bringing across about 20 000 sheep with a view to keeping them here for a time Mr Pearce: It was more comprehensive than and then exporting them. That is a commercial your statement on 6PR. venture; the Government has nothing to do with Mr OLD: The member denigrates 6PR, yet it is it. one of the most widely heard stations in rural Mr Evans: Are you going to give permission for areas. 500 000 sheep to come into WA? Mr Pearce: Does the Federal Government listen Mr OLD: I cannot stop 500 000 sheep coming to it? across. There is such a thing as section 92 of the Mr OLD: That is the most inane remark I have Constitution. All we can do is go through the nor- heard from the most inane person in the House. mal quarantine procedures, and the member He knows very well that we have been in very knows that as well as I do. That is what we are close contact with the Federal Government. The doing right now. In fact, a consignment of sheep fact that the member is not in such close contact has gone through Parkeston and some of them obviously bridles him a little. have been detained in quarantine and others al- Mr Pearce: If you were pushing your plan, why lowed to go on; but if people want to send sheep is all the talking coming from the Federal here-and I know some stock firms are looking at Government to bring sheep over here? Did it re- the price and quality of sheep in the Eastern ject your plan? States-that is a commercial arrangement be- tween them Mr OLD: Let me say that- and the people who will buy the sheep when they get here. Mr Pearce: You got out of that quickly. You My understanding is that New South Wales, are one of the most inane Ministers in the House. Victoria, and South Australia have been offered a Mr O'Connor: God, doesn't he yap? 75 per cent freight concession to apply to those Mr OLD: I believe the member for Warren sheep on a one-way ticket. I understand the New genuinely is wanting to do something but, frankly, South Wales Government has said "No" to any I do not believe he is on the right track. As for his freight subsidy. It is up to the States, because saying I have changed my stance, I can easily il- they have to ind the trigger amount of money be- lustrate that I have not. When the plan was put fore subsidies apply. forward by the Perth Chamber of Commerce that We have a continuous contact with the Eastern two million sheep should be brought to Western States through the Department of Agriculture, Australia for agistment, I violently opposed the and anyone who thinks anything else will not idea, and I continue to do so for very good reason. denigrate me but reflect on the professional Until we knew what feed was available in officers of the department. These officers are Western Australia, until we knew the final out- taking a host of measures to protect Western Aus- come of our own season, until we knew whether tralia's interests. I am sure the member for War- places like Jerramungup, Morawa and ren appreciates that they are professionals, that Northampton were in trouble themselves, and they have a rapport with their Eastern States until we knew whether they needed any assist- counterparts, and that they have a feeling for the ance, it would be quite wrong to bring sheep over people who are affected by the drought, just as we here from the Eastern States for agistment. do and members opposite do, also. They are doing [Wednesday, 20 October l982J103 4039 all they can to alleviate the position in the Eastern Mr Max Moore-Wilton of the Wheat Board States. It is not a matter of scoring political points has suggested that perhaps there will be a need but whether we can help and in what way we can for, say, a million tonnes of grain from Western assist the people confronted by this terrible Australia to take up the slack and that maybe drought. they will import some reed groin from overseas. I Liaison has been established with three officers want to make it perfectly clear that we in West- in the different States-with Mr Roberts in New ern Australia are opposed to any importation of South Wales, Dr Bob Cameron in Victoria, and grain from overseas on the basis that it may result Mr Foster in South Australia. The South Aus- in more noxious weeds into the country. While it tralian Minister has indicated to me that he is not will be on the eastern seaboard, we have seen interested in providing freight subsidies to West- what happened with regard to skeleton weed and ern Australia. I am happy about that; that is fine. such things coming into this State. The New South Wales Government has indicated I note what the member for Warren mentioned that currently it is getting feed from Queensland regarding the secondhand tractor which recently and that it is doing all right. It does not believe it came into this State. Perhaps it might be timely will need a lot, but that will be a matter for as- to explain that that tractor at Bindi Bindi came sessment later on. Victoria has about 500 000 over on a semitrailer with two new tractors. It was tonnes of feed and will need assistance, and we a demonstration tractor. The semitrailer pulled up stand ready to give that assistance. at Norseman at night at the checkpoint and the I do not think the farmers in this State will take driver was asked what the state of the tractors advantage of the position their cousins are in in was and he stated they were three new tractors the other States any more than the reverse would and he was allowed to proceed. I assure the House happen. Some criticism has been made of the that will not happen again. Everybody who comes price of feed wheat. The price of feed wheat is a through Norseman now will be treated with the commercial judgment and is set under the Act by utmost suspicion. the Australian Wheat Board. The price which has For the benefit of people who may be contenm- just beed announced is somewhere in the order of plating importing secondhand machinery, and for $ 10 a tonne higher than the f.o.b. price on wheat the benefit of those in other States who may be for export, and that is f.o.b. less fobbing charges. contemplating exporting it, I indicate that there That $ 10 is designed to cover movement of wheat may be some inordinate delays in undertaking the around the State to various locations. So there is quarantine regulations at Norseman if they come no rip-off despite what members might read in the by road and at Parkeston if they come by rail. I Press. We have no say at all in whether freight want to make that perfectly clear. subsidies are given. We can provide only the home We are happy to co-operate with the Oppo- for the stock or the fodder to be transported. sition and the other States to ensure relief is given Members should understand this. to our interstate friends who are suffering severely It is quite inaccurate to say that the Prime from the affliction of drought. I say to the Oppo- Minister has not responded to the plan put for- sition that the Government is aware of the efforts ward by the Opposition. The Premier has been in that it has put in in regard to looking at this plan. touch with him and the Prime Minister's office Perhaps the criticism of me for using only one has been in touch with the Premier's Department. radio station may have some merit, but it was I think by interjection, someone mentioned that purely something said during an interview. That is the Prime Minister was overseas and therefore what I consider should be done. I discussed it with would not be personally attending to the plan at the Federal Minister and discovered there is defi- this stage. I assure members this matter has not nitely a need for grain in the Eastern States. I do gone unnoticed in Canberra. The plan has been not know whether hay will be of much use to received in the same way as any other plan would them, but I understand that currently oats are have been received and it is a matter of economic being transported to Victoria and South Australia evaluation of whether or not we can provide feed at 5280 a tonne which is a tremendous amount of in its raw state. The member for Warren said that money. I am hopeful that we can come to some somebody from Yarloop or Waroona had indi- arrangement with the States. Knowing the feel- cated to him that they had thousands of bales of ings of farmers in this State who have been old-season hay and the prospect of a good hay through four or five years of drought, I am sure season to come. That is very good, but it may be they will be only too happy to co-operate and that the proposition of transporting the hay is not make sure they do not kick their fellow farmers a good one. We might need to transport grain. where it hurts most when they are down. 4040 4040[ASSEMBLY)

The Opposition's plan has merit. It is not Mr Cla rko: He went to Albany once and knows costed, and I agree that illis very difficult to cost about farming now. it. I make the point that the Government of West- Mr BRIAN BURKE: As the member for ern Australia has not been sitting on its tail Yilgarn-Dundas will amply illustrate in a mo- watching the drought go by. This Government has ment, the Minister simply has not got a grasp of been in constant communication through officers his portfolio. of my department and through me to the Minis- Mr Clarko: When did you read your books on ters of the afflicted States and the Federal Minis- agriculture? ters. I can assure members that Peter Nixon is aware of this and is very keen to help in making Mr BRIAN BURKE: I do not know whether "We need sure we give every assistance we can. We are not members here heard the Minister say, in a position where we have to justify what we to know in respect of live or six areas, the name have done because the public and the farmers of and the seeds for the production of feed in those areas." 1 heard the Minister mention that when Western Australia know that WA is well and of he talked about Jerramungup. Does the Minister truly behind theplan to relieve the suffering deny it? their fellow farmers. Mr Old: No, we will wait until the harvest is Amendments to Motion over. Mr OLD: I move an amendment- Mr BRIAN BURKE: In a moment the mem- ber for Yilgarn-Dundas will demonstrate that a Delete all words after "House" in line I of survey carried out by the Opposition already has the motion with a view to substituting the achieved the result the Minister is sitting on his following passage-- hands waiting to learn about, and the great list supports endeavours previously initiated by for the Minister of all those areas from which we the State Government in represertatations have been able to participate in the plan is to the Commonwealth Government to as- available. The Minister told us in his speech today sist primary producers in drought affected that he does not know and yet the Opposition with areas of Australia, by way of stock scant reserves, as the Minister acknowledges, has transport and fodder supply, through con- been able to uncover the information the Minister tinued liaison between State Departments says is essential before we can proceed on this of Agriculture. matter. Mr O'CONNOR: I second the amendment. Mr Hassell: tt is obvious why you don't often MR BRIAN BURKE (Balcatta-Leader of the make agricultural speeches. Opposition) [5.27 p.m.]: I rise briefly to indicate Mr BRIAN BURKE: It is perfectly clear that that we oppose the Government's attempt in the the Minister has fallen down on the job in this traditional way to turn the motion around to matter. He has been less than gracious in his praise itself. carping criticism, on previous occasions, to the although tonight he said the the truth. Opposition's plan, Mr Old: We are just telling plan did have merit--or words to that effect-and Mr BRIAN BURKE: Normally we do not op- we appreciate his saying that. However, when he pose these sorts of things, but clearly in this mat- thinks he can get away with it, he is often willing ter the Government has been delinquent and the to make carping criticisms, without substance. Minister by his own admission shows by his fail- MR GRILL (Yilgarn-Dundas) [5.31 p.m.]: I ure to properly enunciate and document the plan wish to oppose the amendment. The Government he claims he had or has was a major failure- has shown itself to be not generous enough to sup- Mr Old: It was not a major failure at all. You port a motion which it has admitted deserves sup- know damn well it wasn't. port. The Government will obviously hide behind Mr BRIAN BURKE: -as was the remarkable the pusillanimous use of numbers to amend this silence of the Government on the whole issue. In motion. the Minister's own speech it is very unclear as to The amendment moved by the Government has whether he supports or opposes the transport of been described by the Leader of the Opposition as livestock. He refuses to say. simply a means of praising itself and of patting Mr Old: I did not refuse to say. Your abysmal itself on the back, in circumstances which are ignorance is showing again. If you know any sub- really quite suspect. ject, talk about it, but don't get onto something The motion put forward by the Opposition is you know nothing about. deserving of support. The principle behind it has (Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 404104 been enthusiastically accepted and endorsed by Mr GRILL: I know that. The Minister ungen- farmers throughout the State. We have conducted erously attacked the Leader of the Opposition. a survey and concluded that that is the case. Mr Old: I did not. We have received telegrams, telephone calls, Mr GRILL: However, in the estimation of most and verbal advice praising us for our stand. The people in this Chamber, the Leader of the Oppo- Opposition's plan has been endorsed. This has not sition very competently, in his usual eloquent been only from people normally thought to be manner, handled this motion. supporters of the Labor Party, and that support When speaking the Minister made a damaging has been given without qualification. admission which was pointed out by the Leader of The scheme we have put forward is a practical the Opposition. That admission was that the Min- one and will achieve the greatest benefit for stock ister does not know at this stage what feed is owners in the drought-stricken areas of the East- available in Western Australia for drought- ern States. We have been advised by our Counter- stricken sheep or whether those sheep will be parts in New South Wales and Victoria that transported to Western Australia. The Opposition farmers may wish to take advantage of this is not in that unhappy position. scheme. However that is not a question which we Mr Old: How much of our wheat crop has to be need to decide now. Apart from being a practical shipped overseas? scheme, it extends to Western Australians some prospect of their receiving a good commercial re- Mr GRILL: For this particular year-I do not turn on fodder crops. At the same time, farmers know. in this State who have some national pride can Mr Old: You do not know what reed is needed. hold out a hand and offer some gesture of support Mr Brian Burke: Is wheat the only feed? to the drought-stricken farmers of the Eastern Mr Old: All the barley is committed to overseas States. sales. When the Leader of the National Party, or the National Country Party- Mr GRILL: Those particular factors are of marginal relevance. Mr Old: Not "or the "! Mr Old: Are they? Mr GRILL: I think there is some confusion. Mr GRILL: The Minister indicated that the Mr Old: There is no confusion as far as we are officers close to him had not checked in certain concerned. areas to ascertain whether reed was available. Mr Stephens: There is no confusion as far as Mr Old: That is absolutely untrue and you the National Party is concerned. know it. Mr Brian Burke: Mr Anthony is the Federal Mr GRILL: The record will show it. Leader of the National Party. Mr Old: 1 am pleased because you do not know Mr Old: He won't have anything to do with how to tell the truth. them. Mr GRILL: The Minister mentioned certain Mr Brian Burke: I am just saying what I read areas. He mentioned Jerramungup. in the newspaper. Mr Old: What has that got to do with it? I Mr GRILL: Nevertheless, that member in- mentioned Perenjori and Mullewa also. itiated thanks to the Opposition for its support of the Government's policy and plan. That is a Mr Brian Burke: They are the areas in which cheeky way of expressing- you had to see whether feed was available. Mr Old: Don't be nasty. Mr Coyne interjected. Mr GRILL: The plan which has been put for- Mr GRILL: The member for Murchison-Eyre ward is not the Government's plan. As yet we is reacting in his normal churlish fashion. He is have not seen the Government's plan and we do an embarrassment not only to himself, but also to not know of the Government's policy. The amend- his colleagues. Let us not daily with that particu- ment put forward by the Minister does not ex- lar member. plain that policy. In the Minister's reply to the Mr Hedge: The only comments he makes are Leader of the Opposition he did not explain that when he is sitting down. policy. Mr GRILL: Let us return to the motion and its Mr Old: I was replying to the member for War- salient points. The Opposition has conducted a ren because the Leader of the Opposition did not significant survey, strangely, through the depart- say anything. ment the Minister represents. 4042 4042[ASSEMBLY]

Mr Old: What were the findings? A few individual Victorian farmers might Mr GRILL: I will tell the Minister the findings be able to take advantage of the subsidies if he will just wait one minute. The survey was offered on transporting sheep here, one conducted in Lake Grace, Manjimup, Dalwallinu, farmer said. Northam, Salmon Gums, Albany, Badgingarra, However, there was no way in which stock Bridgetown, Eusselton, Denmark, Three Springs, companies or co-operatives would qualify for Esperance, Bunbury, Harvey, Katanning, and the Government assistance, the Countryman Merredin. Farmers were contacted in order to was told. ascertain the availability of feed within those areas and the time at which they would be har- The farmers who rang us said that it would vesting. In each case it was indicated that there be almost impossible for individuals to organ- was abundant feed in those areas and that, in all ise the transport of sheep from the Eastern but one, hay cutting operations would begin States. within a few weeks. The next paragraph is a real indictment of the Mr Old: That is really news! Government's activities to date. To continue- Mr GRILL: That was the result of a significant "We have State and Federal Governments survey, but, when the Minister spoke, he cast making a lot of noise about the help which is doubts as to whether such a survey had been con- available but when you get down to it, the dueted. help is not worth very much," another farmer Mr Old: We know that; you have wasted your complained. time. "it looks as though neither the Federal Mr GRILL: It was obvious from the Minister's Government nor the Victorian or the West comments that certain areas had not been looked Australian Governments will be spending at. very much money." Mr Old: I give up hope. We have every right to conclude that the farmer Mr GRILL: If the Minister for Agriculture is was correct because the Minister did not indicate to give up hope, he should stop grumbling into his any expenditure involved and in fact did not put beard. forward a scheme. To give the Minister his due, Clearly the plan put forward by the Opposition he has on certain occasions criticised the agist- is superior to the scheme proposed by the Western ment scheme in Western Australia. Australian Chamber of Commerce-in all good The farmers in our midst would know that the faith-to agist in Western Australia 500 000 to time is opportune for such a scheme to be one million sheep from the Eastern States. endorsed. They would know-those with any There was no doubt from the start that that economic knowledge-that at present the esti- scheme would have been unsuccessful and will be mates of an official forecast indicate a drop of 50 in the future. Obviously it is too cumbersome and per cent in the real net value of farm output. Fac- expensive. It is limited in the extent of its tors such as the drought and the worldwide re- practicality and as has been stated by the cession, as well as the escalating cost of pro- Government it is not within the capacity of duction have caused this. We all know that Western Australia to cater for the sheep involved. farmers' costs are rising faster than are their re- Freight concessions offered by the Federal turns. The estimated net return to farmers next Government in relation to this scheme are so cir- year is approximately $2 300 million, which is cumscribed by conditions and too limited in ambit down 44 per cent on last year's return. It is the to be of much benefit to many producers. lowest for 25 years and in real terms it is down 49 The Countryman of 14 October 1982, under per cent. the heading 'Farmers complain", stated- Leave to Continue Speech The Countryman was told this week that government assistance to bring sheep to Mr GRILL: I move- Western Australia from drought-affected re- That I be given leave to continue my gions in the Eastern States was of little use. speech at a later stage of the sitting. Farmers who rang to complain said that Motion put and passed. conditions which applied to the assistance were so restrictive that there was little likeli- Debate thus adjourned. hood of many sheep being brought to WA. (Continued on page 4044.) [Wednesday, 20 October 1982) 404304

QUESTIONS There already exists a provision in the Act under which an offender can be taken back to Questions were taken at this stage. court and a probation order amended or dis- Sittling suspended from 6.14 p.m. to 730 p.m. charged. This means that if six months becomes the new minimum term of probation, and the OFFENDERS PROBATION AND PAROLE .offender attains the goal or purpose set by the AMENDMENT DILL court, the matter could be referred back to the Receipt and First Reading court at the end of, perhaps, three or four months, and the circumstances reviewed. Bill received from the Council; and, on motion then have the option of by Mr Rushton (Deputy Premier), read a first The court would discharging the order or amending it in some time. other way. This amendment is seen by the Government as providing offenders with an incen- Second Reading tive to achieve a goal or purpose which has been MR RUSHTON (Dale-Deputy Premier) set for them while still continuing to allow a dis- [7.31 p.m.]: i move- cretionary role to the courts. That the Bill be now read a second time. Section 9 of the principal Act requires that The principal object of this Bill is to further where an offender is placed on probation, a super- streamline the treatment and rehabilitation of vising court shall be appointed. Any action for offenders who are released on parole or under breach of probation must now be taken before the probation or community service orders. Court of Petty Sessions making the probation order, or the supervising court. At the same time, a number of amendments re- lating to the administration of the Parole Board Although provision is made for the substitution and the Probation and Parole Service have been of some other supervising court, some delay in included. this substitution is inherent, It can and does occur in a State as large as Western Australia that con- As a result of the restructuring of the Probation siderable cost is involved in the apprehension of a and Parole Service by the Public Service Board, person in breach of probation and his subsequent the title of the Chief Probation and Parole Officer appearance before the supervising court. and his deputy have been changed to the Director, Probation and Parole Service, and Deputy Direc- It is intended that the Act be amended to allow tor, Probation and Parole Service, respectively. a probationer in breach of his probation to be taken before any court of appropriate status to be The Bill provides for such appointments to be dealt with. made by the Governor. This should enable breach proceedings to be There are a number of references to these taken more expeditiously and, at the same time, officers in the Act which will require amendment reduce expenses which otherwise might be and provision for this is made in the Bill. involved in transporting and escorting a person to The Bill contains a proposal to reduce the mini- the supervising court. Arrangements will be made mum probation period from 12 months to six administratively so that proper background ma- months. terial is placed before the court dealing with the It will be appreciated that probation is an breach proceedings. alternative to imprisonment. It consists of the A further refinement to the community service conditional suspension of punishment while the order scheme has been proposed to the Govern- offender is placed under the personal supervision me nt. of a probation officer and is given guidance, coun- The community service order scheme has selling, and assistance for his rehabilitation in the proved to be very successful for selected community. offenders, and it is hoped that further refinements The question of reducing the minimum pro- will be possible in the future. bation period was considered by the committee of A recent amendment to the Road Traffic Act inquiry into the rate of imprisonment, under the will enable a court to use community service or- chairmanship of Mr 0. F. Dixon. ders as a sentencing option for selected traffic The committee's conclusion was that there are, offenders where excess consumption of alcohol is in fact, cases where the shorter term could be of an associated problem. considerable value to an offender and that such a In order to make the greatest impact on those provision should be available to the Courts. offenders involved in community service orders, it 4044 "p4[ASSEMBLY] is considered that, where suitable, they should be The Director of Prisons is, by virtue of his pos- required to participate in the alcohol education ition, also a member of the Parole Board. programme as part of that order should the court No provision is made for the appointment of a consider it to be a desirable course of action. deputy to represent him in the event that the It is proposed that the Act should be amended duties of his office prevent him from attending so that, where appropriate, a court also may make meetings of the board. His duties are such that it a special condition of the community service emergency situations do arise from time to time order that the offender participate in an which prevent his attendance at board meetings. ecucational programme as directed by the Direc- It is desirable that he be able to authorise tor, Probation and Parole Service. another officer of his department to attend such Initially, it is intended that those offenders meetings in his stead, and a suitable provision is would be required to participate for up to 25 per included in the Bill. cent of total period of the community service A further matter relates to the question of re- order in the alcohol education programme, but muneration for the Supreme Court judge who is other education programmes could be included at chairman of the board. some stage in the future. The Chief Justice and other judges take the More than 30 officers of the Probation and view that the judge who is appointed chairman Parole Service now have been through the should not receive any remuneration in addition Holyoake Institute training course on alcoholism, to his judicial salary. so the service is in a good position to provide the In practice, administrative action was taken in support necessary to those participating in the 1977 to cease paying any remuneration to the programme. chairman of the board, but it was suggested that A court would need to be satisfied that the per- the matter be clarified in the Act when a suitable son involved was suitable for inclusion in the pro- opportunity arose. The amendment to section 25 gramme and that there were facilities at a lo- will achieve this. cation convenient to the person's place of resi- The remainder of the Bill deals with various dence. amendments which are consequential to the mat- It is intended also that any breach of a com- ters which have been outlined as well as certain munity service order issued by a court would be transitional provisions which are necessary to the capable of being dealt with at any Court of Petty ongoing operation of the Act. Sessions. I commend the Bill to the House. This would bring breach action on community Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr Tonkin. service orders into line with that proposed for breach of probation. The reasons for this are NATURAL DISASTER: DROUGHT identical to those outlined earlier. Eastern States: Amendments to Motion Certain matters relating to the Parole Board Debate resumed from an earlier stage of the sit- membership are included in this Bill. The first of ting. these relates to the appointment of a deputy chairman. MR GRILL (Yilgarn-Dundas) [7.39 p.m.]: Prior to question time I was indicating to the Under the Act, the Chairman of the Parole House, and I suspect some members opposite Board is a Supreme Court judge appointed in agreed with me, that the agricultural industries in writing by the Chief Justice, but there is no pro- Australia deserve some support at the present vision for the appointment of a deputy chairman. time. I was giving some figures in regard to the In the event of the appointed judge not being present position of those industries. able to fulfil his duties as chairman, the Chief Just briefly to touch on some of those figures, I Justice nominates another judge to take over that indicate that, over the last decade, nearly half the position. It is possible that the nominated judge, rural townships have found themselves in a state at very short notice, may be unable to fulfil his of decline. During that same period, between duties as chairman, in which case a meeting of the 30 000 and 45 000 rural workers have left rural board could not be held. areas altogether. Therefore, it is intended that the Act be The rural industries are very important to our amended to permit the appointment of the export income and rural exports presently make longest-serving member of the board to act as up approximately 45 per cent of that income. chairman in such instances. Next year our gross rural returns are estimated to [Wednesday, 20 October 19821 444045 be $11 240 million: on the present year's figure up to date no response has been received, I urge that is a decrease of $1 200 million. As 1 men- members to defeat the amendment before us, tioned earlier, the net real returns to farmers are which is to delete certain words with a view to estimated to fall to $2 300 million. Rural exports substituting a passage that would have the effect are estimated to fall by $530 million to $7 400 of watering down the motion moved by the million. That will be brought about by a fall of Leader of the Opposition. approximately five per cent in gross exports and a MR BLAIKIE (Vasse) [7.45 p.m.]: It is my drop in some commodity prices. intention to support the amendment. .1 will make The Opposition has outlined fully, documented, some comments on the motion moved by the and publicised a plan for drought fodder relief to Leader of the Oppositon, which was moved in an be implemented in the Eastern States from feed attempt to point score. One of the sad positions in fodder collected in Western Australia. That plan which the House finds itself from time to time is will benefit farmers in this State and it will help that of discussing a motion such as that moved by to safeguard the national flocks and herds. It also the Leader of the Opposition, a motion designed will help to strengthen the rural industries in the purely to use the agricultural industry of this Eastern States. State for political purposes. The tragedy of the It is only appropriate that the taxpayers should situation is the plight of farmers in Victoria, New be asked to bear some of the burden of that help. South Wales, and Queensland; but we should not However, the Government has indicated it has a forget farmers in Western Australia who are ex- policy or plan, but when one examines it, one sees periencing difficult climatic conditions this year. that, in reality, it amounts to one discussion which Many farmers in Western Australia are still the Minister for Primary Industry had some waiting for the end of the season to determine weeks ago and one fortuitous radio interview con- whether they will have a reasonable crop. It is sad ducted with 6PR. I indicate the Minister has ad- that we have a blatant attempt before us by mem- mitted he did not take the initiative to bring about bers opposite to use the plight of agriculturalists that interview. He was asked to go onto the show in this State as a means of political point scoring. and report in respect of discussions he had had in Mr Herzfeld: It is a sad reflection on the Oppo- the Eastern States about drought relief and he sition. made certain comments at that time. Mr BLAIKIE: I thank the member for At no time has the Government issued a Press Mundaring for that comment. The motion moved release on its plan or policy. It has not released by the Leader of the Opposition certainly is a sad any documentation in respect of that plan, if one reflection on members on the other side of the exists. Right up until the present time, the House; it shows the paucity of knowledge they Government has given us no details of that plan have of not only rural Australia as a whole, but or policy. It has not mobilised the State's re- also rural Western Australia. The Opposition has sources-by that I mean the Department of attempted to show that this Government is not Agriculture and its officers or the transport doing as much as it ought to be doing. The stand- system-to implement a scheme. ing in regard to drought relief of this Government in fact, the Government has done nothing in re- and, in particular, of the Minister for Primary In- spect of putting forward a coherent plan or policy dustry in this State, would be the best of any to help farmers in the Eastern States and, at the Government or any Minister for Primary Industry same time, to h'elp farmers in this State. i.f such a in Australia. The Government has taken a practi- plan exists, the farmters- in this State are not cal approach to this matter. For example, it has aware of it. Certainly, in our investigations, that instituted drought relief committees, which report Government plan has not been mentioned to us by to the Government. In my opinion the record of a farmer, nor have officers of the Department of this Government is the best of any in Australia. Agriculture mentioned a Government plan in Mr Grill: Why are you so critical of the mo- their discussions with us. When we spoke to those tion? You have taken our criticism as inflamma- officers, of course, we were not aware that the tory remarks. Government had any such plan in its mind, but Mr BLAIKIE: I support the amendment moved certainly those officers did not mention it to us. by the Minister for Primary Industry. One of the The Premier has been approached by our leader principal factors for this Government's having a to support this plan, but up to date no response clear understanding of the travesties of drought is has been received. The Fraser Government that for the last five or seven years this State has through the Prime Minister has been approached experienced probably the worst drought in its by our leader to support this plan, but once again agricultural history. 4046 4046tASSEMBLY]

Mr Wilson: That's rubbish! supports endeavours previously initiated by the State Government in representations to Mr BLAIKIE: I hope one or two members op- posite will be charitable enough to accord credit the Commonwealth Government to assist pri- to the Government for the support and assistance mary producers in drought affected areas of it has given to farmers in this State. I am building Australia, by way of stock transport and fod- up to the recognition and the understanding this der supply, through continued liaison be- tween State Departments of Agriculture. Government has of the plight of farmers affected by drought. That is so in regard to this coalition Those words indicate precisely that which I have Government and any other similar Government in been talking about. If the- Australia. The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Watt):. Order! The Government has acted quickly when called Mr BLAIKIE: -member for Vilgarn- upon to act. It has offered tangible relief to D undas- drought-affected farmers and rural communities The ACTING SPEAKER: Order! generally. The Government has provided financial Mr Pearce: Order! assistance to farmers by rearranging loan repay- ments. The ACTING SPEAKER: I do not need the member for Gosnells to help me. Point of Order Mr Pearce: I just did. Mr GRILL: Mr Acting Speaker (Mr Watt), II The ACTING SPEAKER: I remind the mem- ask you to direct the member for Vasse to confine ber for Vasse and other members that the motion his remarks to the matter before the House. It is before the House is to amend the motion moved not relevant for him to refer to history or to give by the Leader of the Opposition. The amendment us a diatribe of previous actions of this Govern- seeks to delete all words after the word "House". ment. He should direct his remarks to the matter That is the question we are debating. before the Chair; he should make his remarks ger- As members are aware, I have just come into mane to it, The Opposition's motion is quite clear. the Chair. However, I am inclined to suggest it would be more appropriate for the member for The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Watt): The Vasse to speak at length on the general subject matter before the House at the moment is one matter before us after the amendment before the which is obviously of a fairly wide-ranging nature. Chair has been dealt with. I do not call on the While I agree to some extent with the member for member for Vasse to cease his remarks, but I do Yilgarn-Dundas that members should stick to the ask him to try to confine his remarks to the subject matter of the motion-of course, that is a amendment before the Chair. requirement in every debate, as the member would know-it is almost impossible to maintain Point of Order from the Chair strict compliance with that re- quiremen t. Mr BLAIKIE: On a point of order- I take the point and ask the member for Vasse Mr Tonkin: As Chairman of Committees he to endeavour to confine his remarks to the subject outranks you. matter of the original motion. In fairness, I must Mr Pearce: It is the preliminary bout. say the matter is one in which a wide range of Mr BLAIKIE: I seek an explanation from you. agriculturally related matters could be accepted I listened intently to the comments made by the as appropriate. member for Yilgarn-Dundas, and I believe I was speaking to the general tenor of those remarks. Debate (on amendment to motion) Resumed Mr Tonkin: Are you debating his ruling? Mr BLAIKIE: In speaking to the question be- The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Watt): Order! fore the Chair, I must indicate I am not prepared Mr BLAIKIE: I ask-. Can I continue to refer in to support the motion moved by the Leader of the a general sense to the matter before the Chair, or Opposition; I intend to support the amendment would it be better, in your opinion, for me to leave moved by the Minister for Primary Industry. my remarks on that subject until a general debate Mr Wilson: Can I ask you what is wrong with of the matter at a later stage of the sitting? the motion? Mr Tonkin: You are just delaying the business M r BLA IK IE: I intend to support also the pro- of the House. posed inclusion of words as outlined by the Minis- The ACTING SPEAKER: I accept the com- ter, those words being- ment made by the member for Vasse. 1 tried to [Wednesday, 20 October l982J 404704 explain in response to the initial point of order Agriculture would arrange for a determination of from the member for Vilgarn-Dundas that this the feed available, but I ask any member of this debate is one or those in which a great deal of Mouse to explain to me how regional officers wide-ranging interest is shown. I have tried to could arrange contracts with farmers to produce point out to the House that in an endeavour to at this time of the year feed for the Eastern guide the debate, a more proper manner of pro- States. ceeding is to debate the question before the Mr Mclver: A farmer was in my office House, and that is that certain words be deleted. yesterday wanting to give 2 000 bales. If the member for Vasse wishes to relate his argu- Mr Evans: The essential point relates to hay. ments to reasons for certain words to be deleted, I will be happy to accept those arguments. I simply Mr BLAIKIE: These interjections are was trying to clarify the situation for the House. interesting; they indicate the paucity of know- ledge that ALP members have of the agricultural Debate (on the amendments to motion) Resumed situation in Australia. Earlier the Minister for Agriculture was asked what the Government will Mr BLAIKIE: Mr Acting Speaker, I thank you do about locust control. That question indicates for your- further that the ALP does not know what it is Mrn. F Taylor: Indulgence. talking about. What would happen if an area Mr BLAIKIE: -wisdom. I will continue with were devastated and our farmers had sent their my remarks as to why I believe all words after the stock feed elsewhere? word "House" should be deleted. Mr Grill: Have you read the motion? Mr Grill: Then you might tell us what's wrong Mr BLAIKIE: The feed situation in Western with the motion moved by the Leader of the Op- Australia- position as it stands. Mr Grill: Have you read the motion? Mr BLAIKIE: To support the contention of the Mr BLAIKTE: -is that the season is far from' Minister for Primary Industry, one must consider being over. A number of circumstances can occur. carefully the proposition put by the Leader of the Any person with any agricultural knowledge Opposition. Of course, that motion is germane to would understand what could happen. why certain words should be deleted. The Leader of the Opposition proposed that which I would Mr Grill: Do you not support the scheme? call the 10-point ALP "save-the- Australian- M r B LA IK IE: The third poi nt states- farmer plan". It is interesting to refer to this plan. The Commonwealth, as part of its drought I will put forward reasons for the rejection of that relief programme, would provide funds for plan, and therefore reasons in favour of the pro- the purchase of the fodder from producers at posals put by the Minister for Primary Industry. ruling WA market prices. Mr Grill: Don't you support the plan? At what price does the Opposition assume the Mr BLAI K IE: The first point refers- fodder should be sold-at an inflated price or a deflated price? Of course, it is logical that it Mr Grill: Come on, don't you support it? would be sold at market prices. Mr BLAIKIE: -to agricultural officers. It Mr Evans: You are encouraging speculators. states- Mr BLAlKIE: Who is encouraging specu- Agriculture officers in drought-affected lators? States would assess the amount of feed re- quired. Several members interjected. No doubt agricultural officers in drough t-a ffected Mr BLAIKIE: If the produce is purchased at areas throughout Australia assess this require- Western Australian prices, irrespective of whether ment on an ongoing basis, not just at this time. this grandiose scheme is implemented or not- That first point has little relevance. Several members interjected. The second point states- Mr BLAIKIE: The member has a lack of Regional officers of the Department of knowledge of what the Opposition is proposing. Agriculture would arrange and possibly con- The Opposition's plan states- tract with WA farmers to produce feed for The WA Government would organise the the Eastern States. transport of fodder to rail sidings for cartage That is an interesting proposition, but when one to the eastern States. considers it further one realises that regional The Opposition is suggesting that the services of officers of the Western Australian Department of Total West be used. 4048 4048[ASSEMBLY]

Several members interjected. Mr BLAIKIE: The people in my electorate Mr BLAIKIE: I can see there is division on the will, no doubt, help the national scene once they other side of the House. Some members are say- are made aware of the seasonal conditions fore- ing, "Yes", and others are not convinced. cast. I would assume that the services of Total West Mr Grill: What is wrong with the motion? would be used. It continues- Mr BLAIKIE: I hope I have met the conditions Australian National Railways would pro- of Standing Orders. I certainly do not support the vide transcontinental transport free as proposition made by the Opposition but, I support eastbound traffic is largely empty waggons. the amendment. One thing for sure is that although we do not have I make a final point to the members of the Op- empty wagons in this House we do have empty position to at least try to understand that this vessels on the other side of the House. It con- matter should be treated with a degree of caution tinues- before the fodder resources of this State are com- mitted to the rest of Australia. A number of mat- Distribution of the fodder in the drought ters must be taken into consideration including States would be arranged by the Govern- the climatic and seasonal factors between now ments of those States. and the end of December. Locusts have been men- What a wonderful programme. Could members tioned earlier in this debate and it has been stated imagine Nifty Neville arranging cartage on the that the people involved in- Riverina, and can members imagine Mr Cain Mr Grill: No-one is forcing anyone to sell. doing a similar thing? It would be up to the States to consider those matters. In his letter to Mr BLAIKIE: The Opposition is forcing a the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition scheme; that is what it is doing, and a degree of said- caution needs to be exercised. The amendment proposed by the Minister for Primary Industry is The pre-requisites for the implementation of such a scheme- sound and deserves support. And I think that is very good. It continues- MR McPHARLIN (Mt. Marshall) [8.06 p.m.]: As one who has had the practical experience of -are a detailed economic evaluation of it and having a drought-affected property for four years agreement between the Governments con- out of the last five, I think I can speak with some cerned. knowledge on the need for assistance to drought- Already this evening the Minister for Primary In- affected farmers. I do not see a great deal wrong dustry has indicated that South Australia is not with the motion moved by the Opposition except particularly interested in purchasing fodder from that the Opposition was a little tardy in thinking Western Australia. about this matter. Mr Wilson: So what? Mr Pearce: He is one of the fast members of Mr BLAIKIE: Is the member suggesting that Parliament! South Australia is? Mr McPHARLIN: I have a Press release Mr Wilson: I said, "So what?" which arrived on my desk on 24 September and which was issued by the Federal Mr BLAIKIE: It is about time the member for Minister for Pri- mary Industry. It outlined a drought relief fodder Dianella took a little more trouble to understand SUbIsidy scheme that has been acted on by Depart- the proposals put forward by the Opposition. ments of Agriculture throughout Australia. Mr Wilson: The Minister did not use that as a Mr Grill: You had better tell the Minister criticism. about it. Mr BLAIKIE: I am introducing it as a criti- Mr McPHARLIN: Our Department of cism-the member for Dianella does not even understand the proposal. Agriculture, which acts from its own experience with drought in this State, is geared up to handle Mr Wilson: Don't you listen to your own Minis- problems associated with drought-affected areas ter? and the drought consultative committee has been Mr BLAIKIE: The assessment has been made involved in discussions with other departments in New South Wales that they will be able to get throughout Australia in an endeavour to im- fodder from Queensland. plement the proposed scheme. Mr Pearce: They would not want to get too Mr Grill: You have that paper in front of you much grass from your electorate or they would and perhaps you could refer to the page where the have pretty high sheep in New South Wales. Commonwealth offers a freight subsidy on [Wednesday, 20 October 1982) 404904

transport of fodder from Western Australia to the *.... if a farmer buys wheat in bulk from Eastern States. the AWE for $145 per tonne then the sub- Mr O'Connor: Is that included in the amend- sidy will be $72.50 per tonne. ment? Other subsidy calculations are based on the fod- Mr McPHARLIN: I will come to that page. der's nutritive value in relation to wheat or 50 per The amendment before the House is in order be- cent of the cost of the fodder, whichever is the lower. A great deal more detail is given in relation cause it supports what has been proposed by the to the different categories of fodder, but I will not Commonwealth and is being acted on by the go into that. The freight deductions for WA drought consultative committee of the Depart- amount to $12.18 per tonne. ment of Agriculture in this State. Mr Grill: It will not cover 10 per cent of the The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Watt): Order! I cost of getting it there. remind the member for Mt. Marshall that the motion before the Chair does not say that; it was Mr McPHARLIN: The requirements provide foreshadowed that those words would be inserted for the fodder to be purchased before a subsidy after the amendment has been passed. can be obtained and no more than one claim for subsidy a month. These are not unusual require- Mr McPHARLIN: My reason for supporting ments. the amendment is that the Department of In Western Australian drought relief has been Agriculture has acted already with regard to a offered to many farmers in the form of low fodder subsidy scheme. If I am precluded from interest rate loans. Before this assistance was going into the details of these proposals I would granted an inquiry had to be undertaken. Under then wish to speak on this matter after the drought conditions a farmer can obtain some re- amendment is passed. turn and the extent of this must be shown on the The ACTING SPEAKER: (Mr Watt): Order! application for drought relief assistance. I ask the member for Mt. Marshall to resume his Drought relief assistance forms have been seat and I am not suggesting that he should cease available since early October. In Western Aus- his remarks. I repeat what I said to the member tralia they have been available from the drought for Vasse and that is, I am perfectly happy for the consultative committee at the Department of member for Mt. Marshall to continue the debate, Agriculture in Jarrab Road, South Perth. but I ask him to demonstrate the reason he be- The subsidy scheme will be funded as follows- lieves the words should be added. The Scheme will be funded by an appro- Mr McPHARLIN: The reason I support the priation in the Drought Assistance (Primary amendment is because the scheme outlined by the Producers) Act, 1982. Funds will be provided Federal Government supports it. The Federal by the Commonwealth in the form of an 596 Government has outlined the basis for the Grant to the States. An arrangement will be subsidies in relation to the fodder subsidy scheme entered into between the Commonwealth and it has outlined the conditions of eligibility. An Minister for Primary Industry and the appro- area must be declared drought affected before an priate State/Territory Minister which will application can be made for assistance to pur- outline the terms and conditions under which chase fodder for drought-affected stock. I believe the subsidy can be paid. The arrangement the subsidy is 80c per sheep per month and that will take the form of an exchange of corre- the subsidy payment will not exceed $800 per spondence. month. As I have said, there was not a great deal wrong Mr Grill: That is not relevant to the debate, is with the motion moved by the Opposition. The it? Opposition's intentions were good, but I do be- Mr McPHARLIN: That is why I believe the lieve there is an element of some political point scoring in the exercise because of the action that amendment is one that we should support. Sub has been taken by the Departments of Agriculture sidy payments for fodder were available from I throughout Australia. September this year providing the applicant is eli- gible. It continues- The amendment to the motion is correct. How does the Opposition know what stocks of fodder The subsidy will be based on 50 per cent of are available in other parts of Australia? It could the price of bulk wheat bought from the be possible that some fodder is available in the AWE for stock feeding purposes. Eastern States. I have heard that there is a pro- The following figures have been used- posal in this State to transport coarse grains to 4050 4050[ASSEMBLY] the Eastern States by road. I cannot give any de- Mr McIVER: I was supporting the motion tail of this proposed, but I understand that some- moved by the Leader of the Opposition. thing like 10000 tonnes of grain are involved. The ACTING SPEAKER: It is not possible for However, that is the farmers' business-it is their the member for Avon to support that motion be- own arrangement and if they want to do it, fair cause that is not the motion before the Chair. The enough. motion we are discussing is that the words to be Mr Mclver: At scab rates. deleted be deleted and he must speak to that Mr MePHARLIN: I do not know what are the question. He may say he prefers the original mo- rates. tion and that is why he opposes the amendment; he may also give his reasons. Mr Mclver: I know, and they are scab rates. Mr Mel VER: Your point is well taken Mr Act- Mr MePHARLIN: What does the member for iug Speaker. The reason I oppose the amendment Avon mean by that? moved by the Minister is that it is parallel to the Mr Mclver: You know what I mean; I do not motion moved by the Leader of the Opposition. have to spell it out. The Government and the Opposition are endeav- Mr MePHARLIN: The member for Avon does ouring to expedite fodder to the States which are have to spell it out. What does he mean by it; drought affected. I am concerned that several what are scab rates? If producers wish to import thousand sheep from the drought-affected areas stock into Western Australia of their own volition already have arrived in my electorate to be on a commercial basis, they would have to comply agisted. No doubt they will be followed by several with the quarantine regulations. I do not see how thousand more. I am very much opposed to that one could stop them. I am not in favour of their concept for the reason that irrespective of what coming in in large numbers, the member for Mt. Marshall has said about their Mr Evans: Do you think they will come in a being closely examined, and the quarantine regu- great rush and number? lations being applied, when great numbers of sheep arrive, heaven knows what disease they may Mr McPHARLIN: I doubt it. I do not think have or what noxious weeds they may bring into there is any way we can stop them if people are the State. prepared to purchase them, to meet the quaran- tine requirements, and to satisfy the inspectors. Mr Old: They have been inspected and shorn. The advent of drought affects not only the pro- Mr McIVER: I know that, but, in the past, ducers, but also the economy of the country. The something has always got through. expression of concern here tonight indicates that Mr Old: They have come here every year. most members appreciate what is involved when Mr McI VER: Your department inspected some the production of the agricultural industry is af- and they were found to be full of noxious weeds fected so severely, because the effect flows from South Australia. through the economy. I will have many more re- Mr Old: That is rot! marks to make about that matter when I speak in the Budget debate. Mr Mel VER: I am trying to be responsible in this matter- The trouble with the Minister's party MR MeIVER (Avon) (8.17 p.m.]: I rise to is that it is too busy trying to pick a name that make a few brief comments and to support the will suit people rather than getting down to deal motion moved by the Leader of the Opposition. I with this matter. am concerned at the procrastination that is taking place. It does not matter who moves this motion Mr Old: Don't be stupid. or who gets the kudos. Mr McIVER: It is a matter of opinion as to the Minister the The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Watt): Order! I who is being stupid. I am giving facts and the reality. The sheep which have ar- remind the member for Avon, as I have the mem- rived will be followed ber for Vasse and the member for Mt. Mar- by several thousand more, and although the Minister may have faith in the shall-I understand he is endeavouring to speak quarantine system, I do not when it comes to to the motion moved by the Leader of the Oppo- large numbers like this. That view is shared by sition-that I will require him to relate his re- many farmers in my electorate. marks to the reasons he is opposing, if that is what he is doing, the amendment moved by the Mr Bryce: The member for Mt. Marshall just Minister for Agriculture. He may refer to both agreed with you. the motion and the words that have been fore- Mr McIVER: Many farmers expressed their shadowed to be included. concern while I was in York today. [Wednesday, 20 October 1982J105 4051

Mr P. V. Jones: At the races. for Transport contact his counterpart and do Mr McI VER: Yes, I had a wonderful day, too. some liaison and work out a freight rate for all the empty wagons travelling to the Eastern States. The Minister's amendment is parallel to the Opposition's motion. The operative ward here is To answer the member for Mt. Marshall, I in- "expediency". I ask the Minister for Transport dicate that scab rates are used by unscrupulous whether he has contacted his counterparts in the people who want back loading. They would take Eastern States since this matter arose to discuss back a mother-in-law if they thought they could the question of the freight on fodder, the subsidy, get a few dollars for her. They have already ap- or the freight rate. proached farmers in this State to cart the wheat Mr Bryce: He has not. to various ports and silos, They would cart any- thing to get a load and undercut anyone. That is Mr MOIVER: It is obvious from the silence what I mean by scab rates. that all the Government members have done so far is talk The amendment has no merit whatever; the motion moved by the Opposition covers all aspects Mr McPharlin: Would you stop all the sheep of the matter. For the first time in its life, the from coming here? Government should recognise that fact and work Mr Mel VER: Yes, every one. closely with the Opposition to expedite this mat- Mr Old: They Come every year. ter. We must get the fodder to the Eastern States Mr MePharlin: They go both ways every year. so that we can keep a lot of people on the land in Victoria and New South Wales. If the rubbish Mr McIVER: The member for Mt. Marshall that has been spoken here tonight continues to be asked the question, and my answer is, "Yes"., I put forward by the Government, the people in would stop the sheep from drought-affected areas from coming here. I would take the guidance of drought areas in the Eastern States may go bank- people I listen to with farms as big as his. rupt and be forced to leave the rural scene. Mr Blaikie: Would you stop sheep leaving from I support the motion and oppose the amend- areas of Paterson's curse? ment moved by the Minister for Agriculture which is only political garbage. Mr McIVER: I do not consider that it is a curse; it is a feed for sheep. Amendment (deletion of words) put and a div- ision taken with the following result- I want to touch on one matter which the mem- Ayes 22 ber for Vasse mentioned. He is well out of his Mr Blaikie Mr Mcrharlin depth tonight; he said we were trying to score pol- Mr Clarko Mr Mensaros itical points. I do not think any kudos can be Mr Court Mr O'Connor gained from this matter. The agricultural areas of Mr Coyne Mr Old as Mrs Craig Mr Rushton the Eastern States are in dire straits. Surely, Mr Crane Mr Sibson responsible legislators, we can combine to assist M r Grayden Mr Sodemnan these people to remain on the land. It is obvious Mr Grewar Mr Tubby they have spent thousands of dollars, as does Mr Herzfeld Mr Watt Mr P. V. Jones Mr Williams everyone in the rural scene in drought areas. For Mr Laurance Mr Nanovich the member for Vasse to denigrate the Oppo- (Teller) sition, and say we have no concern whatever for Noes I5 rural people in Western Australia is an absolute Mr Bertram Mr Jamieson disgrace. If he looks at the record of the Labor Mr Bridge Mr Mclver Mr Bryce M r Pearce Party in Western Australia in promoting rural in- Mr Davies Mr A. D. Taylor dustries before the member for Vasse was born, Mr Evans Mr Tonkin he will see that it is a great record. It is one of Mr Grill Mr Wilson which the Opposition can be very proud. We have Mr Gordon Hill Mr I. F. Taylor Mr Hodge (Teller) kept the rural areas viable, and we had the best Pairs Minister for Agriculture during the years of the Ayes Noes Tonkin Government, as is well known and recog- Mr Spriggs Mr Carr nised throughout Australia. M r ShalIders Mr Harman Mr H-assell Mr T. H. Jones I repeat that the operative word in both the mo- Mr MacKinnon Mr Bateman tion and the amendment that the different sides Mr Trethowan Mr Parker are endeavouring to move is "expediency". The Mr Young Mr Terry Burke sooner the Government takes some positive steps, Dr Dadour Mr Brian Burke the better. The First should be that the Minister Amendment thus passed. 4052 4052[ASSEMBLY]

MR OLD (Katanning-Minister for As doubts persisted on the desirability of Agriculture) [8.29 p.m.]: I move an amend- simply upgrading the present system, the review ment- was extended to examine compensation schemes i n other places. Some States of Substitute the following for the words de- Australia were leted- looked at more closely, as was the system in the United Kingdom. We looked again at the Law supports endeavours previously in- Reform Commission Report of 1975; and the re- itiated by the State Government in rep- ports of various crime compensation boards in resentations to the Commonwealth America and Canada were also taken into ac- Government to assist primary producers count. in drought affected areas of Australia, The end result of this research was a proposal by way of stock transport and fodder for a new Act to take crime compensation away supply, through continued liaison be- from the court system and put it in the hands of tween State Departments of an independent assessor. It is contemplated that Agriculture. in many cases he will be able to deal with appli- Mr O'CONNOR: I second the amendment. cations with administrative informality and with- Amendment (substitution of words) put and out the need for a hearing. In addition, it is antici- passed. pated that victims of offences will be able to in- itiate their application in writing and pursue their Motion, as Amended claim for compensation personally. Motion, as amended put and passed. While the assessor will be empowered to hold a hearing should it be necessary, and to take cvi- CRIMINAL INJURIES COMPENSATION dence on oath, he is also required to act speedily and informally on applications made to him, BILL having regard to the requirements of justice and Second Reading unfettered by legal rules relating to evidence and MR RUSHTON (Dale-Deputy Premier) procedure. The proceedings will be in private un- [8.31 p.m.]: I move- less there is good reason for them to be held in public; and while there can be publication of his That the Bill be now read a second time. finding and decision on an application, there is The original Criminal Injuries (Compensation) power to protect the names of persons involved Act came into operation in January 197 1; and, in should the public interest require. the light of experience between then and 1976, It is intended that the assessor will inform him- amendments were introduced in the latter year. self of the circumstances giving rise to the appli- As further problem areas developed in connection cation from the transcripts of trials, depositions, with the Act in the following years, it was decided police and Crown Law Files, exhibits, and other to review the entire Act. This review led to a documents; and he may seek and obtain any ad- number of options being considered. Initially, it ditional information he considers necessary to was thought possible to improve the present deal properly with the application. He may speak system of having applications dealt with by the to victims and view their injuries, and, if the mak- various courts. A number of problems were as- ing of a compensation award is objected to, he sociated with this approach. must give the assailant an opportunity to be The court system is relatively formal; and vic- heard. Should he decide upon a hearing of his tims of offences were reluctant to appear again in own motion, or at the request of one of the per- a court to talk about the nature of their injuries. sons interested in the application, there is pro- This was especially so for victims of sexual of- vision for notification of those persons of the time fences. The use of affidavits alleviates some of the and date of hearing. distress associated with a court hearing, but does Where an award of compensation is made in not eliminate it. Some victims were unwilling to favour of an applicant, the assessor must go on mount their claims for compensation as the cost and where possible make a finding as to the per- and inconvenience offset the likely compensation son responsible for the injuries to the applicant. award. In addition, some parts of the present Act The compensation awarded is thereupon paid out involved legal complexities; and gradually most of the Consolidated Revenue to the applicant; and claims came to be presented by legal prac- the amount so paid will become a debt owed to titioners. Legal costs then tended to negate part of the Crown by the person found responsible for the the award made by a court. injuries or loss; and the amount will be recover- [Wednesday, 20 October 1982j105 4053 able from the assailant by the Under Secretary This Bill will take effect and become law on a for Law in a court of competent jurisdiction. date to be proclaimed and will apply to injuries or Careful consideration has been given to the loss sustained in consequence of the commission maximum amount of compensation payable under of an offence or an alleged offence on or after the this Act. In the light of competing claims on Con- date of proclamation. solidated Revenue, the amounts payable in other The Bill which is now before the House is div- States have been looked at. The Government's de- ided into a number of parts and I intend to deal cision to increase the maximum to $15 000 puts it with each part in some detail. in the forefront of the Australian States. It will be Provision is contained in the Hill for the ap- possible also in future under this Bill to amend pointment of a person as the assessor. The ap- the maximum by regulation, but it needs to be re- pointment will be for a term not exceeding five membered that the average compensation years; and the provisions relating to that appoint- awarded to victims of offences is currently about ment are contained in the schedule to the Bill. It $2 500. Only a small percentage of applicants will is not anticipated, initially at least, that the as- genuinely attract the maximum compensation. sessor would be required full time and, as a result. It was recognised at the outset by the former a part-time appointment may be made. Chief Justice that the Criminal Injuries Applications for compensation may be made in (Compensation) Act provided a limited scheme writing to the assessor where a person has suf- for the compensation of crime victims. fered injury or loss as a result of the commission In Australia and in most other places in the of an offence or an alleged offence. "Injury" is world, it has not been seen as economically re- defined in the same way as exists under the pres- alistic to make the taxpayer the unlimited and ent legislation. The applicant also can claim com- comprehensive insurer of crime victims. In this re- pensation for loss which is defined to include ex- spect, the compensation amount differs from civil penses actually and reasonably incurred by the damages in tort which embrace concepts of future applicant or by a person responsible for the main- economic loss and where the risks of damages tenance of the applicant. The definition, as under claims are insured against. the existing legislation, makes provision for dam- The new proposal to constitute a criminal injur- age to items of personal apparel and loss of earn- ies assessor and remove applications for compen- ings suffered by the applicant as a result of the of- sation from the arena of formal court proceedings fence. was put before the Courts committee of the Law In the case of a victim dying as a result of the Society of Western Australia for consideration. offence, there is provision for the personal rep- The proposal received favourable endorsement by resentative of the deceased person to make an ap- that body, subject to there being a right of appeal plication for loss which is defined as loss in re- from the decisions of the assessor. The Attorney spect of which a person could claim damages General has been happy to accede to that request; under the Fatal Accidents Act. Although slightly and there is now for the first time an express right different terminology has been used from that in of appeal to the District Court. That appeal will the existing legislation, the right to compensation be in the nature of a review of the assessor's de- remains substantially the same. Whereas a per- cision; and it will be final. sonal representative defined in the Bill can bring In addition, it has been foreseen that there may an application on behalf of close relatives of a de- be applications of such difficulty or complexity ceased victim, problems also may arise where the that the assessor believes they would be better victim is a child or is incapacitated by reason of dealt with by the District Court. In such a case, if unsoundness of mind. An application now will be he is of that opinion, he may refer the application able to be made on behalf of a child by his parent to the District Court to be dealt with by a judge. or a person acting in place of a parent, or by a The judge will then sit as if he were the assessor. manager appointed under the Mental Health Act, Under the Bill, the assessor will not have power or the Public Trustee, whichever has the requisite to award costs on any application before him; but capacity in law. Persons who have an incapacity on appeal the District Court will be empowered to therefore are not prejudiced in bringing a claim award costs to a successful appellant according to for compensation. a prescribed scale. Clause 9 introduces for the first time into the Regulations will, of course, be necessary to give legislation a time limit within which an appli- effect to the legislation; and these will be drafted cation can be made. The period provided, what- to ensure a speedy commencement of the new ever the nature of the application, is three years scheme. from the date of the offence, or the alleged of- 4054 4054[ASSEMBLY]

Fence or offences, which give rise to the injury or also may defer consideration of an application if loss. There is no time limit for bringing an appli- he thinks it is necessary to obtain more infor- cation under the existing Act, but as the legis- mation for the purposes of his decision. lation has been in operation now for over 10 Clause I8 requires that hearings before the as- years, it is believed that all genuine claims would sessor shall be in private unless he considers that have been brought. Should an injustice arise as a in the circumstances the hearing shall be in pub- result of the time limit, the assessor has been lic. power to extend the period with power to given Part V deals with the making of the award and impose conditions. payment of compensation. Clause 19 empowers Clause l0oaf the Bill sets out those persons who the making of an award of compensation to an ap- are recognised by the Act to be interested in an plicant or to close relatives of a deceased victim. application. They are, of course, the applicant The SPEAKER: Order! I himself and any person who, in the opinion of the interrupt the Minis- ter to indicate to him that the practice of the assessor, might become liable in the end result to House which has been followed for a long time on make repayments of compensation to the Crown. the introduction of the second reading stage of a In addition, there is provision for the assessor to Bill is to make simple, general comments on the allow any other person into the proceedings if he thrust of the legislation. The dealing with the is satisfied that that person has a substantial matter on a clause-by-clause interest in them. basis ought to be confined to the Committee stage. I ask the Minis- Clause 12 provides for the giving of notice of an ter to have regard for the practice of the House. application to the offender. I have mentioned Opposition members: Hear, hear! already that the assessor will be required where possible to nominate the person responsible for Mr Gordon Hill: Boring! the injury or loss. In addition, the person found to Mr RUSHTON; In explanation, I might say I be so responsible will be under a debt created by am introducing a Bill for the Attorney General. the Statute to make repayments of the compen- He has provided thetse notes. I am fully aware of sation paid out of Consolidated Revenue to the your ruling. Crown; and that debt will be recoverable by the Mr Tonkin: But you are making the speech. Crown in a court of competent jurisdiction. Mr RUSHTON: I might add- Because of this scheme, and the desire to place Mr Pearce: There is a lot more of it to come, the legal and moral responsibility on the offender too. for his wrong-doing, it follows that the offender must be given every opportunity to be heard and Mr RUSHTON: I was just mentioning the voice whatever objectons he may have to the mak- clause that empowers the making of an award of ing of a compensation order. Clause 12 recognises compensation to an applicant or to close relatives this rule of natural justice and provides for service of a deceased victim. All I am doing, of course, is of notice of the application upon him by regis- giving a fairly full explanation to the House. I am tered post. Experience in the past has taught us just wondering how I could do that and abide by that every so often the offender or offenders do your ruling, Sir. not want to be heard, and in many cases the con- viction by a court will establish his identity be- Point of Order yond doubt. Nonetheless, attempts will be made Mr PEARCE: I support the Deputy Premier in to recover moneys paid out of public funds from this, because I am dealing with this Bill for the the person responsible for the injury or loss, and it Opposition. It would be difficult to summarise the becomes necessary to afford the offender a right provisions of the Bill. I have glanced through, the to object to the making of a compensation award. second reading notes; and I can see that the It has been recognised that the assessor ought Government's attitude to the Bill would be diffi- not to be limited solely to the material put before cult to put forward in a general summary. This him by the applicant. For this reason, the assessor legislation is quite innovative in terms of the pres- is to be allowed to make such other inquiries and ent law. It is a completely new Bill. I ask that the investigations as he thinks fit in order properly to Deputy Premier be allowed to complete his second assess all the circumstances relevant to an appli- reading speech because it will assist the members cation before him, and to issue a notice requiring of this House in their deliberations on the matter. persons to produce books and documents and to The SPEAKER: I take the point made by the furnish information to him. An example of such member for Gosnells. Certainly I do not want to material may be further medical reports, or docu- restrict the Minister, because I am convinced the ments resulting from the police investigations. He Bill is one of great complexity, and probably it is [Wednesday, 20 October 19821 405505 necessary to introduce it in this way. However, I that the applicant will be paid compensation or make the point that we do not want to create a damages independently of the legislation. Where, situation where other Ministers think this is the subsequent to an application for compensation, an way Bills ought to be brought to the House. Per- applicant claims compensation or damages under sistent rulings have been made as far back as same ocher Act, clause -33 allows recovery of the 1924 that the introduction of Bills should be criminal injuries compensation by the Crown. The based on general principles, which is the point I combined effect, therefore, of clauses 24, 28 and raised with the Deputy Premier. 33 is to ensure that an applicant does not get com- pensation or damages from several sources for the Debate Resumed same injury or loss. Mr RUSHTON: The amount shall not be in Clause 25 deals with a matter referred to in the excess of the maximum of $15 000, but it may be present Act, but in this Bill has been expanded apportioned in the case of relatives as the assessor and clarified. It deals with the situation where an thinks proper. In the case of children, he is given applicant has a relationship with or a connection a power to direct that any compensation awarded with the person who committed the offence or al- to them be held in trust for their benefit. A copy leged offence. The assessor is required not to of the order drawn up by the assessor is to be for- make an award of compensation where that warded to the Under Secretary for Law. award is likely to result in a benefit or an advan- Clause 23 provides for the assessor's reasons to tage to the person who committed the offence or be forwarded to each person interested and to the alleged offence. Under Secretary for Law. Another factor relevant to the making of an There are quite a number of matters about award is stated in clause 26. The assessor is re- which the assessor must be satisfied before he quired to have regard for the actions of the appli- makes his award of compensation. The claimed cant in bringing the offence. or alleged offence to injury Or loss must have occurred in consequence the attention of the authorities and to examine of the commission of an offence or alleged of- whether the applicant has done everything reason- fence. The offender must have no sufficient de- able to assist in the detention, apprehension, or fence against liability in respect of an offence or prosecution of the offender. The behaviour of the an alleged offence. In other words, the Act will victim himself always has been critical in crime niot provide compensation where injury has been compensation schemes. It always has been re- entirely accidental or where even in civil law there garded as contrary to the public interest to pay would be no liability on the person who caused the compensation out of public moneys to a crime vic- injury. Put simply, a person will not receive com- tim where the victim can fairly be described as pensation and another person will not be required the author of his own misfortune. The extent to to be responsible for repayment of compensation which a victim has contributed directly or in- unless the assessor is satisfied that there has been directly to his own injuries, always has been a fac- a wrong in the law of tort. While this concept tor taken into account in the making of an award raises some legal complexities for the assessor, for compensation. past experience indicates that the problem will Clause 27 allows the assessor to apportion re- arise only rarely. Nonetheless, the provision has sponsibility between the victim and the assailant been inserted because it is felt that it would be unfair to make a person responsible for repayment and to reduce the amount of compensation which of compensation if such a person would not be re- otherwise he might have awarded by the extent to sponsible for damages in a civil court. which the victim himself contributed to his injur- ies or loss. Further to the above, the assessor needs to en- sure that an applicant does not double up on his Clause 29 provides a general discretionary compensation. Where, in the opinion of the as- power entitling the assessor to take into account sessor, an applicant has reasonable grounds for whatever factors or circumstances he regards as taking proceedings independently of this appli- relevant to the making of an award. cation for compensation or damages, the assessor It has been mentioned already that compen- may require him to do so. An example might be sation will be paid out of the Consolidated Rev- where the assessor believes that the applicant enue Fund. In that respect it is not different from would be entitled to payments under the Workers' what has occurred in most cases under the present Compensation Act. legislation. However, the discretion of the Clause 28 allows the assessor to deduct any Treasurer under the present legislation has been amount from the compensation if he is satisfied removed, and the amount awarded by the assessor 4056 4056[ASSEMBLY]

will be the amount paid to the victim, subject only in Australia with this legislation. I am sure it will to the right of appeal. be well received by the public, particularly by Clause 31 recognises that where the victim of those who suffer as a result of criminal injuries. an offence is a child or a person under incapacity, There now will be a simple, understandable, and certain expenses resulting from the injury or loss expeditious procedure to enable those people to may be met by the parent or the person adminis- receive some good measure of compensation. The tering the victim's assets. The clause allows the maximum amount will be the highest in Australia assessor to order that some compensation be di- and there will be some flexibility as there will be rected towards reimbursing the parent or adminis- provision for increase by regulation in due course trator who met the expense in the first place. without further amendment of the Act. Clause 32 is the provision in the Bill which cre- I commend the Bill to the House. ates the statutory debt against the person stated Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr Pearce. or found by the assessor to have committed the Message: Appropriations offence or alleged offence to which the award of compensation relates. As mentioned above, that Message from the Governor received and read debt is recoverable in a court of competent recommending appropriations for the purposes of jurisdiction. the Bill. I have referred already to the right of appeal and part VI of the Bill deals with that topic. A STATE FORESTS clear right of appeal is given to an applicant Revocation of Dedication: Motion against the decision of the assessor, but also in MR LAURANCE (Gascoyne-Minister for this provision to the assailant as well, being the Forests) [8.54 p.m.1:]: I move- person responsible for repayment of the statutory debt. That the proposal for the partial revo- cation of State Forests Nos. 14, 22, 25, 27, In addition, as mentioned, the under secretary 28 and 34 laid on the Table of the Legislative has been given a right of appeal. An appeal shall Assembly by command of His Excellency the be commenced within 21 days after the date of Administrator on the twenty eighth day of the order, but that time may be extended by leave September, 1982, be carried out. of the District Court. The appeal may be deter- mined solely upon the evidence or information in The motion is put forward in accordance with the the hands of the assessor, or the court may receive requirements of section 21 of the Forests Act further information or evidence as it thinks just. 19 18-1976, whereby a dedication of Crown land only in whole or When the District Court judge sits on the appeal, as a State forest may be revoked he functions as the assessor, and the proceedings in part by a resolution being passed by both are in the nature of a rehearing of the application. Houses of Parliament. Whether the District Court deals with a matter If the actual areas of land set aside for State referred to it due to its complexity or difficulty, or forest in 1981 were to remain exactly as originally whether it deals with the matter coming before it designated, considerable hardship and disharmony on appeal, its decision is final. would occur with those who live and make their The Bill allows the assessor to publish his living adjacent to the forest. findings. It is only if the public interest requires, This year some 266 hectares out of the 2 that he may make an order to prevent publication million hectares of State forest will be exchanged of his reasons for decision, or any names set out in for land of like area and usually of better forest his order or findings. While it is considered desir- quality. As a rule these exchanges are made with able for the assessor to deal with applications pri- neighbouring farmers and landowners so that vately and any hearings should also be in private, their and also the State forest boundaries can be the reverse situation is designed to apply to his made more workable. This often can be of vital order and reasons for decision. It is believed desir- importance for fire protection of our forest re- able that the assessor should ensure that the pub- sources. lic are informed of the nature of applications The gain to State forests through exchanges made under this Act and for that reason the re- contingent on the proposals to be detailed will be sults of his deliberations will be made public un- in the vicinity of 289 hectares. This amounts to a less the circumstances of the particular case lead net addition of about 23 hectares to the State for- him to order otherwise. ests area. I have dealt with the provisions in some detail It is desirable to draw members' attention to because the Government has broken new ground the fact that dedications as additions to State for- [Wednesday, 20 October 1982) 405745 ests in 198 1-82 amounted to 589 hectares while I am convinced that of all the people who do 316 hectares were revoked resulting in a net gain not make formal complaints, only a fraction of of 273 hectares. Seven separate areas are em- them come to us with their problems. When I say braced by the motion and these are described in I have received dozens of complaints and many of papers tabled before the House. my colleagues have received complaints and have I commend the motion. relayed them to me as Opposition spokesman on consumer affairs, I am conscious of the fact that a Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr Evans. very large number of people who are not encour- aged to make a formal complaint do not then go APPROPRIATION (CONSOLIDATED on to see a member of Parliament. Therefore, REVENUE FUND) BILL many problems do not surface. As to Second Reading: Budget Debate On page 22 of the bureau's 1980-81 report we MR O'CONNOR (Mt. Lawley-Premier) [8.55 see that the number of formal complaints for that p.m.]: I move- period has decreased by 17.5 per cent compared Thai leave be given to proceed forthwith to with the number for the previous year. I do not Order of the Day No. 2. know where the fault lies. In Opposition, it is not possible to know whether it is a ministerial direc- Leave granted. tive, a wink given to the staff by the Minister, an Second Reading: Budget Debate awareness that they do not have enough power Debate resumed from an earlier stage of the sit- and therefore there is not much point in receiving ting. formal complaints on the part of the officers con- MR TONKIN (Morley) [8.56 p.m.]: Members cerned, a lack of morale amongst the bureau's of the Opposition are concerned with the state of officers, or what the problem is. I do not intend to consumer protection in Western Australia. In- make assertions with respect to those matters, but creasingly over the past year or two we have re- I remind the House that the hopes which were en- ceived complaints from many citizens that when tertained in regard to consumer protection when they go to the Bureau of Consumer Affairs they the Tonkin Government introduced the legis- are turned away as though no assistance can be lation, have not been realised. I am aware that the given them. I am not talking about formal com- Brand Government in 12 years of occupation of plaints, but rather about the initial approaches the Treasury benches refused to introduce con- made to the bureau. Frequently people come to sumer protection and it was introduced only with me and my colleagues and say they have not been the advent of the Tonkin Government. Since then, encouraged to come forward, and when inquiries instead of our moving forward in terms of con- are made with the bureau by- telephone-or even sumer protection, we have not made progress. in the House-the answer is given that no formal Scores of people have come to me this year and complaint has been made. Therefore it seems that some do not even mention the Consumer Affairs no case can be made out because the poor bunny Bureau because they have given it up. I ask them, has not made a formal complaint. However, the "Have you been to the Consumer Affairs Bu- citizen concerned has been discouraged from reau?" and they say, "Yes, I telephoned it, but making a formal complaint. When I say someone there said there would not be much it "discouraged" I do not mean it has been made could do." Yet there was something that could be difficult for him to lodge a formal complaint, but done and, of course, there is no record of that rather that when he outlines his problem he might telephone conversation and there is no way that be told, "I do not think there is much we can do we can prove which officer gave that advice. for you." Naturally the citizen says to himself There has been no formal complaint because that if nothing can be done there is no use served that was discouraged. When my constituent re- by his proceeding any further. turns to the bureau and says, "I have spoken to All members of the House know that citizens my MP and he thinks you should do something", do have a right to make a complaint-perhaps it then perhaps a formal complaint will be made be- is their duty to go to the bureau and make a for- cause I have told him or her, "Make a formal mal complaint, insist upon their rights, and have complaint." We believe that the officers of the the matter investigated. Members would know bureau should be encouraged to take a more help- also that the average person is not au fait with ful stance with respect to people seeking advice business procedures or his rights under the Con- from them. Perhaps part of the problem is that sumer Affairs Act or other legislation and is not the Consumer Affairs Bureau does not have direct assertive enough, and consequently does not insist access to the Minister, but goes through the upon making a formal complaint. Under Secretary for Labour and Industry. Per- 4058 4058[ASSEMBLY] hap it would be better if, as is the case in at least pen, and the interviewing officer can answer same other States, this was a separate depart- questions. It seems to me that the bureau went ment. the wrong way about the situation in discouraging I turn to the situation with respect to research interviews. It should have demanded more staff graduates who conduct research into consumer af- from the Government so that interviews could be fairs matters. In 1973-74, which was the last year conducted. We are very disappointed with the of the Tonkin Government, four research gradu- way in which the bureau is operating. ates were employed by the bureau and now only Some weeks ago I asked a question in the one is employed. Consequently, the research side House with respect to Tranter and the of the bureau has been badly neglected. The con- Drummond Cove project. In answer to my sumer affairs council has been disbanded by legis- question, the Minister indicated that the bureau lative flat of this Government and there is no did not have power to deal with Tranter. When I body outside the professional office of the bureau asked whether the Government was going to representative of the public in regard to consumer change the legislation to give it greater power, the interests to draw to the attention of the com- answer was, "No." It appears that the bureau has missioner, the public, and the Parliament some of thrown up its hands and said, "We cannot deal the needs of consumers that are not being met. with Tranter." The bureau has written letters to The population of Western Australia is growing him for years and it has received back a mouth all the time. As at 31 December 1981 the popu- full of cheek. Apparently the bureau is quite lation of Western Australia was 6.9 per cent happy to go on like that. higher than it was on 31 December 1978, yet the No suggestion has been made by the Govern- number of complaints officers employed by the ment that legislation will be brought to this place bureau has not increased. to give it the power to deal with confidence The bureau has admitted the drop in the tricksters of that kind. The Speaker number of telephone calls received by it and the interjected-it is unusual for a Speaker to do reason for this is that the calls are being screened so-when I raised the matter in a grievance de- and people are being discouraged from attending bate recently; I said it had been going on for some interviews. years and the Speaker interjected and said, Page 23 of the bureau's 1979-80 report states- "Twelve" because he had personal experience in this Matter. To alleviate the pressure situation con- stantly experienced by complaints officers Mr I. F. Taylor: Quite right. It has been going due to the high volume of interviews, changes on for many years. were implemented in respect of the complaint Mr TONKIN: If the bureau does not have receipt procedure. Previously, complainants power why does it not seek power? Where does were requested to formally complain by way the neglect lie, with the Government or with the of written correspondence, or attendance at commissioner who is not asking for these extra the Bureau for the purposes of interview and powers? I am not a mind reader. I am not in a subsequent complaint form completion. The position to know the facts. I have not been privy new procedure provides that where a con- to the conversations between the Minister and the sumer telephone enquiry gives rise to a poss- commissioner, but certainly the fault lies either ible formal complaint, the prospective com- with the Government which will not accept the plainant will be forwarded the necessary advice tendered by the commissioner, or with the complaint form for completion and sub- commissioner who perhaps is not giving advice sequent return to the Bureau. The new pro- asking for greater power. cedure contributed to the decrease of persons Mr I. F. Taylor: Ask him! attending the Bureau from 7 684 during 1978-79 to 6 598 for the 1979-80 period. Mr TONKIN: He is not there. One might ask what is wrong with people not The DEPUTY SPEAKER I suggest the mem- being sent complaint forms. One understands that ber address his remarks to the Chair and make forms cannot answer questions. Forms are some progress. intimidatory to many people. Mr TONKIN: Thank you, Mr Deputy Mr 1. F. Taylor: That's right. Speaker. Mr TONKCIN: A discussion is needed-a Mr Barnett: Hear, hear! question and answer period or interview, in other Mr TONKIN: We have the situation where no words-wherein the complainant can ascertain his action is being taken. This matter has been rights and obtain an idea of what is likely to hap- brought to the attention of the House before in re- [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 405905 gard to all kinds of problems. The Government is paying taxes to put people in gaol and feed must do some fine tuning in regard to these mat- them. Society has good people, and the bad people ters. We spoke about this some weeks ago with re- bludge on them. It would be nothing different spect to taxation laws, the Corporate Affairs from that which occurs in the rest of society. In- Office, stamp duty, etc. We cannot bring in a stead of being negative, the member should think piece of legislation and sit back for 10 years while, about the innocent people who have done no the crooks Fiddle with the loopholes. The Govern- wrong, but who suffer as a result of the actions of ment should be watching this matter and should these disreputable people. Why does not the bring in legislation to counteract this sort of Government and its members think about provid- thing. What is needed in regard to consumer af- ing protection for those people rather than cavil fairs is a constant brief for legislation coming to about the problems? this place to tighten up the laws in regard to Of course it means that good dealers would be people like Tranter. carrying the bad-that is the point of a fidelity Mr 1. F. Taylor: Hear, hear! Well spoken! fund. The police are part of a system of law and Mr TONKIN: What the Government has done order. The majority of people in society are de- in this regard has been unsatisfactory. Not only cent law-abiding citizens who have to carry those does the Government have executive power, but who are not. also it has legislative power, which is a luxury the I asked the Minister for Health how many pest Australian Labor Party has never enjoyed-the control firms have lost their licences in the past luxury of a majority in both Houses. We know two years. The answer was "None." I wish to that if this Government wants to do something, as draw the attention of members to the practices it wants to win an election by causing industrial which are occurring with at least one operator in confrontation, it can get its legislation through the hills area. I raised this matter with a member both Houses. It is simple. The Government will of a pest control firm who said, "He is bad. We just keep us here until 6.30 in the morning and know that person should lose his licence." That is eventually it will go through. The Government the trouble. We make laws in this place which re- has no excuse for its inaction in this regard. It has quire a person to hold a licence, but no-one ever executive power and legislative power within the takes it away-if it is a licence for a commercial Constitution. operation. A motorist can lose his licence as a re- An active Government would use those powers suit of a conviction, but a holder of any commer- constantly. The petrol Bill which is before the cial licence does not lose it for unfair practices. House now, illustrates another case of a Govern- This person who operates in the ment's being in power for eight years and waiting hills-Gooseberry Hill and places like until this time to bring legislation forward. That is that-browbeats and intimidates old a dereliction of its duty. The Premier became very people-pensioners. On one occasion, in order to upset recently when I said he was derelict in his get rid of the pest control firm operator after duty and was protecting people who were friends three hours, a widow in her seventies signed a ter- of the Government. He seemed to think I was rible contract which ripped hundreds of dollars suggesting that he was taking action to protect off her. Of course, we know she should have rung certain individuals. What the Government must the police, but this practice should not be allowed realise is that when in Government one has re- to continue. sponsibility as well as power and privilege. An error of omission is just as important as an error What is the point of a licencing system if of commission. people are not disciplined for unfair practices? I have referred to one operator in this State who I have spoken about the need for a fidelity fund should be investigated-I will not say he should for the retailers of motor vehicles. A constituent lose his licence because I do not wish to be judge of mine does not seem to be able to obtain any and jury-and 1 am sure there are others. help from this Government or the Bureau of Con- sumer Affairs. Because someone has gone bank- Mr O'Connor: Has this matter been referred to rupt an 18-year-old girl With Very little money the Bureau of Consumer Affairs? cannot have warranty work done on her car. Mr TONKIN: Yes. I believe there have been Mr Sibson: It will make good dealers pay for many complaints. bad ones. It is an unfair insurance. Mr O'Connor: I think they would take the ap- Mr TONKIN: The member would rather propriate action. squirm than do anything to protect the people his Mr TONKIN: I asked a question of the Minis- Government is supposed to protect. The member ter for Consumer Affairs who said this was a mat- 4060 4060[ASSEMBLY] ter for the Minister for Health who told me that Mr TONKIN: If the Government does not be- there had been no convictions in the past. lieve there should be a "Use by" date, it should Mr O'Connor: I think it should be a combi- say so. If it requires the date to be adhered to, nation of the two. everyone should do so. The determination as to whether or not a product has a shelf life of two Mr TON KIN: On the receipt of the complaint, the bureau said, "We do not licence; the Public years or more should not be left to the manufac- Health Department does." We could have a turer. serious problem where two bodies are responsible I do not believe manufacturers, as citizens, for one Matter and each leaves it to the other. should be singled out. Of course, most citizens are Perhaps one body should be responsible. responsible and most manufacturers are respon- Mr O'Connor: I think it should probably be the sible. We do not need to deal with the responsible Public Health Department which should take ac- ones; we need to deal with the irresponsible ones. tion, on advice from the Bureau of Consumer Af- MR McPHARLIN (Mt. Marshall) [9.25 p.m.]: fairs. Most people were surprised when the Budget was Mr TONKIN: This operator should be presented. Many of my constituents discussed it investigated and I am sure there are others who with me and said they thought the Budget was ac- should be. ceptable: in, fact, more acceptable than was antici- Another matter I question is that of the "Use pated. by" date on goods. I bought a packet of soup re- That fact has been revealed by the lack of criti- cently and noted it did not have a "Use by" date cism levelled at it by members of the Opposition. stamped on it. I asked a question in this House on The Leader of the Opposition described the the matter and was told that it was not necessary Budget as a fiction Budget. if the shelf life of' a product was in excess of two Mr Jamieson: When there is nothing to criti- years. I was told the shelf life was decided by the cise, it is very hard to make out a case. manufacturer. That really nullifies the whole Mr McPHARLIN: That is good reasoning. system of the "Use by" date stamp because there is no way of checking. Mr Jamieson: There is nothing in the Budget. Many commodities have a shelf life of over two Mr McPHARLIN: That means it must satisfy years, so surely there should be an independent most people. body to decide on the shelf life of a product. If it The Leader of the Opposition said there had is decided that the shelf lire of a product is over been a series of increased charges in the months two years, there is no need for the use of a date preceding the Budget. We do not deny that that is stamp. Given that is a satisfactory state of affairs, what occurred. However, it occurs whichever should we not decide that someone other than the Government is in power. manufacturer should make that decision? Mr 1. F. Taylor: That is nonsense. Mr Court: Are not manufacturers usually re- Mr McPH-ARLIN: I distinctly remember that sponsible people? when the Labor Government was in office in the Mr TONKIN: If that is correct, there is no years 1971-74 that is what occurred. need for laws at all. I can say that most citizens Mr Davies: You would be old are responsible people, but we pass laws as to enough to re- whether or not they can drive a motor vehicle. Of member that, too. course, most manufacturers are responsible, but is Mr McPHARLIN: This Government was sit- the member saying that there has never been an ting on the Opposition benches then, and it criti- irresponsible manufacturer? If there has been, are cised the Labor Government. Therefore, I do not not the laws there to pull him into line? blame the Opposition for criticising the Govern- If one is a good manufacturer, one may have a ment for doing just that. problem and find that the irresponsible manufac- Opposition members realise that no Govern- turers are getting away with their practices to ment likes to increase charges and taxes, but is their competitive advantage and one may be often forced to do so because of the pressures of forced to lower one's standards in order to com- increasing costs of wages and the rate of inflation. pete. In the financial statement presented by the Mr Court: The use of it tends to be quite good. Premier on the section dealing with agriculture, However, if it is a perishable item and it is not re- he made the point that the proposed allocation of frigerated. there is no use in providing a "Use by" $43.7 million to the Department of Agriculture guide. represented an increase of 14.3 per cent. [Wednesday, 20 October 1982])06 4061

If we read part 4 of the Estimates under the Mr O'Connor: Yes, but that represents the per- heading "Minister for Primary Industry, centage of the total Budget, not the increase in Agriculture, and Fisheries and Wildlife", we note the vote itself. that the summary of divisions indicates that the Mr McPHARLIN: I apologise; it is the per- vote for 1980-81 was $37.62 million. The expendi- centage of the total Budget. ture was $38 242 986 and the estimate for 1982- 83 is $43.718 million, little over $5 million extra. Mr Davies: You are always doing that; you are The Agriculture Protection Board has an estimate always apologising. of a little over an extra $1 million and the Rural Mr McPHARLIN: Western Australia this year Adjustment Authority has an estimate of looks like having a record grain harvest, even $100 000 extra. The estimate for the Meat Com- though adverse seasonal conditions have been ex- mission has changed very little. perienced in some areas. Of course, we are in- The increase of 14.3 per cent to an industry as clined to get carried away by the production esti- important as the agriculture industry is not mates. We are very fortunate to be looking for- necessary only for the economy of our State, but ward to a good season, which has transformed the also for the economy of Australia; but it is not a farming lanid; the late rains increased the yield es- large increase. timates considerably. It really does one good to Mr Evans: Miserable, really. drive around, look at the crops, and talk to the farmers. Despite the record harvest predictions, Mr McPH-ARLIN: The Government must ac- there are signs of diseases such as take-all, cept that the agricultural industry will be of great septoria, and smut, and the threat of locusts in the importance in the years up to the year 2000. southern area. These are all part of the risks of Mr O'Connor: You must take into account the farming anid wheat growing. However, we look increase the industry received last year as well. forward to a record grain yield this year. The group had a 20-odd per cent increase last We are inclined to believe this will solve all our year and a 14 per cent increase this year.. That is not bad. problems;, however, although it will result in a tremendous boost to our economy, it will not be Mr Evans: Last year just brought it up to par- the panacea for all our ills. Recently, I spoke to ity. several people who had visited the United States Mr O'Connor: I was speaking to the overall of America. They told me of the tremendous de- Budget. cline in industry, particularly agricultural indus- Mr McPKARLIN: I take the point. However, try, in that country. Any such reduction in the the extra money allocated this year certainly will United States has a great impact on the rest of assist these areas. the world. These people returned from the US5 The allocation to the Education Department with some very depressing information about this year represents an increase of 23.5 per cent what is happening in the farming industry in that over last year's figures which, in turn, was an in- country. The recession there is so bad that, by crease of 23.2 per cent over the previous year's comparison, we have not yet even seen a recession figures. here. Mr Pearce: That is total rubbish! I believe the next 12 months will be crucial for Mr O'Connor: No, it is 14 per cent this year. the farming industry in Australia and indeed, for Mr Pearce: Yes; the 23.5 per cent to which he the economy of this country. Shortly, we are to refers is the proportion of the Budget spent on debate amendments to the Industrial Arbitration education. Act, some of which relate to certain aspects of wages, Mr O'Connor: I think it was 13 per cent last union activity, and to claims for higher and the like. The industrial system in Australia year and 14 per cent this year. has a direct effect on farmers by increasing on- Mr MePHARLIN: I will check the figures; 1 farm costs. Any increase in the price of manufac- think I am pretty right. tured goods, equipment, and machinery which the Mr Pearce: No, you are pretty wrong; the farmer simply must have is passed on to the Treasurer and I are agreed on that. farmer. Although the farmer has some control of Mr MePHARLIN: The Budget speech states his on-farm costs and labour costs, the flow-on that the percentage of total State expenditure al- generated through the wider community is far located to the Education Department has risen more important than the situation on individual steadily over the past six years and that, this year, properties because it pushes up the cost of every the increase was of the order of 23.2 per cent. service. 4062 4062[ASSEMBLY]

In a drought situation, that process is exacer- Farmland values continue to fall, worsen- bated. For example, when commodity prices de- ing the position of farmers who borrowed crease, as has the price of meat in recent times, it against them: the number of broke farmers is difficult for the farming community to carry on. quitting the land soared more than 600 per Farmers have been forced to retrench many of cent in the five months to last February, their employees because they cannot afford to against figures for the whole of 1980. continue to pay them. The National Farmers' Support industries are in chaos. The col- Federation recently estimated that unemployment lapse of' elevator companies is so serious that in agricultural and related services industries in the US Department of Agriculture has issued Australia had increased in the three months to advice to farmers on how to reclaim their September of this year from 13 000 to 19 000, grain from bankrupt businesses. representing an increase of about 45 per cent. Farm machinery and equipment sales con- That is not very encouraging to the economy, and tinue to fall. we hope that situation can be arrested. However, if salaries and wages continue to increase, re- The people to whom I spoke told me or miles of sulting in a flow-on of increased costs, the equipment they were unable to sell, and of farmers' situation will only worsen. The farmer businesses going bankrupt, day by day. The cannot pass on these costs; the buck stops at his article continues- door; he cannot demand increased prices for his Record -crop projections and mounting commodities. Therefore, he is forced to make stockpiles add to the problem. changes to the way he manages his property in The article goes on to report an interesting com- order that he might obtain a decent living. ment by the Chairman of the Australian Wheat Earlier today we had a debate on the effect of Board in the following terms- drought. I can assure members that when a For the grain trade, those stocks are poten- farmer experiences a drought, his resourcefulness tially devastating. If the US is moved to sell and ability are tested to the limit. I can quote the them off under subsidy- case of a farmer on a family farm who plants They have the finance to do that. To continue- 10 000 acres of wheat each year. Last season, he estimated his total cost at $20 an acre; therefore -it could launch what Australian Wheat it cost him $200 000 for the season. He suffered a Board Chairman Sir Leslie Price fears would drought; in fact, his farm was situated within a be "the greatest grain price war in history". declared drought area. He harvested his crop and So, the outlook is not as bright as we are led to obtained a return of about $140 000 for his believe. The article goes on to point out that the wheat, thus leaving him $60 000 in debt before situation in America at present is not unlike the he started next year's programme. Even at the situation which developed prior to the Depression then prices, his next year's programme would cost of the 1930s. The United States is responsible for him another $200 000, in addition to which he 49 per cent of total world wheat exports. That is a would need to ind the $60 000 he lost, because of large proportion of world exports, so members can the drought in the preceding season. Members see the chaos that would be created if the USA can appreciate the difficulties faced by farmers. followed the course suggested by the Chairman These farmers manage their properties in the of the Australian Wheat Board. Some members most economical way; they are very experienced, here will remember the Depression of the 1930s and know what they are doing. However, those and the fact that we did not then have in Aus- are the sorts of problems they are encountering. tralia a stabilised wheat marketing scheme. Earlier, I mentioned the impact American agri- Mr Davies: It took the Labor Government to do cultural production had on the world agricultural that. industry, due to the tremendous level of pro- Mr McPHARLIN: That took many years of duction in the United States. The National negotiation by the industry. I know what the Op- Farmer of 7 October contains an article headed position is going to say. "US slump: evil omens for Australian farms". Mr Evans: Well, you tell us. Normally, I would simply read such an article Mr McPHARLIN: It was not until 1948 that a and then put it aside, However, because of my stabilisation scheme came into being. discussions with several people, including my brother who has spent some months in America Mr Evans: Good old Chifley! trying to sell machinery, I took a great deal more Mr McPHARLIN: I admit that a Labor notice than usual. One part of the article stated- Government was in power federally at the time. [Wednesday, 20 October 1982])06 4063

Mr Evans: And a floor price for wool-you had which intend to develop and expand their agricul- better give that a mention. tural industries. This production will become Mr MePHARLIN: Thank goodness we have more and more necessary in the years ahead. that stabilisation scheme. Those with some know- The report states also that the Federal Budget ledge of it are aware that farmers contribute to for 1982-8 3 will provide $737 million for such the stabilisation fund which is quite healthy at the things as the food programme and assistance for present time. agricultural technology, for overseas aid. That is a Mr Evans: If it had been left to the Liberal pretty substantial contribution from Australia, Government we still would not have it. but I do not think the Federal Government, or Mr McPHARLIN: It gave stability to the in- any State Government, should neglect to foster dustry. The member for Warren referred to the and encourage the industry in our own country floor price for wool. Members will recall that and our own State. wool prices were going right through the floor, Of course, water supplies are important to but the coalition Government in Canberra ar- agriculture, In my own electorate, in the northern rested that trend, although it was strongly criti- part of the wheatbeit going eastward from cised by the Opposition for doing so. The wool in- Dalwallinu, a proposal to extend the water dustry was saved in this way. scheme has been put forward;, that is, the Agaton Mr Evans: Millions of bales of wool were lined water scheme project, the financing of which has up and the coalition would not take the risk. created a great deal of concern. The Agaton basin is in the Watheroo area where there is an under- Mr McPHARLIN: It did. ground system of water supply through bores, so Mr Evans: It did not, the scheme would not take water away from Mr McPHARLIN: I do not have the details Mundaring Weir or any of the catchment areas in here with me, but it was a coalition Government the near metropolitan area. which commenced that scheme, and the Oppo- The project is a good one, and the only diffi- sition was opposed to it. The coalition Govern- culty is that of funding. It has been proposed that ment went ahead with the idea, and eventually it the farmers contribute to the scheme. Many meet- worked out very well. ings have been held, and although the farmers are Mr Evans: This sounds like Hans Christian not opposed to the principle of contributing, con- Andersen. cern has been expressed about the sum of money Mr McPI-ARLIN: Although I do not have a involved. note of it, I had wool in the sales at the time andI A committee was appointed to look into this remember distinctly what happened. It is scheme, and I spoke to its chairman today. It is interesting to hear the concern of Opposition proposed to hold another meeting next Tuesday to members about the agricultural industry. Just a collate the results of the surveys. The scheme will few months ago the Federal Labor Opposition op- cover an additional 664 000 hectares beyond that posed the continuation of the superphosphate covered by the existing scheme. The chairman bounty. The OpposiLion was supported by the intends to contact me immediately after the meet- Australian Democrats and here is the member for ing so that I can investigate the matter further Warren expressing concern about the farming and hold more discussions with the Minister and community. He ought to talk to his colleagues in the officers who have been involved in the pro- Canberra and tell them to lift their game. The ject. I just hope we can come up with some way to electors will remember this action. complete the scheme. Just the other day the Acting Minister for Frequently one hears of the Federal Govern- Foreign Affairs (the Right. Hon. [an Sinclair) ment allocating hundreds of millions of dollars to and the Minister for Primary Industry (the Hon. schemes for overseas aid, but when an approach is P. J. Nixon) issued a joint statement about world made from the State Government to the Federal food day. The statement referred to the effects of Government on a matter such as this, the econ- the drought in the Eastern States, but the point omics of the whole scheme are questioned. One was Made that One-tenth of the population of the wonders whether the Federal Government has its world-some 400 million people--do not have priorities in order. I am aware that the State enough to eat. The estimate is that the population Government has made representations for the al- of the world will increase by 1.6 billion between location of more funds, but up to this point those 1980 and 2000-thai means an additional 94 representations have not been successful. This is million people will have to be fed each year. So one area of the agricultural industry in this State members will realise the importance of countries which desires to have the water scheme extended, 4064 4064[ASSEMBLY] and everyone must be aware that once the scheme Mr Bryce: How often do farmers go on strike? is established, these areas will become greater Mr McPHARLIN: Following the strike, the assets for the State and for the nation. Government decided that it would not deduct I would like to comment on the allocation of union dues from the salaries of the teachers. funds to the Education Department. When one Mr Pearce: Tell us what happened. listens to the member for Gosnells, one gains the Mr McPHARLTN: The membership of the impression that there is nothing anywhere near as Teachers' Union dropped by about half. important as the vote for education. I do not want to create the impression that I do not consider Mr Pearce: It is not half. education to be important. Of course it is import- Mr McPHARLIN: It dropped from 14 000 to ant, but other areas also are important and in my 7 000. opinion the agricultural industry must rank On IS August 1directed a question to the Min- among the most important areas to be provided ister for Education who indicated that, as at 30 for. April 1982, the membership of the union was Mr Pearce: A few of your party spokesmen 6 800. He did not know what had happened since seem to concentrate on it a bit. that date. The membership dropped from approxi- Mr McPHARLIN: I believe the attitude of the mately t4 000 to 6 800 and that represents a pro- member for Gosnells is rather parochial. He is an test being registered by responsible teachers ex-teacher, and, as I have often said, it appears to against the actions of the union. However, worse me that many teachers never venture outside the than that, the Teachers' Union joined the TLC. classroom. They are not experienced in the world For what reason did it do so? of hard knocks. Mr Pearce: There is a crime in a free country! Mr Pearce: Your own Minister for Education Mr McPHARLIN: I shall tell members why unfortunately falls into that category. the Teachers' Union did that. Mr Clarko: No I don't. Mr Pearce: I guess they felt they were a union Mr McPHARLIN: Not having been out of the under Government pressure and they needed a bit classroom, they would not understand- of support from other unions. Mr Laurance: They would not know what they Mr McPHARLIN: It was said that the would not know! Teachers' Union joined the TLC because it Mr McPHARLIN: -the difficulties of facing wanted more industrial muscle and that is exactly the real world. what it did. Mr Evans: How many Ministers did you say Mr Bryce: Do you support the farmers when you had like that? they go on strike? Mr Pearce: I would look around the glasshouse Mr McPI-ARLIN: The worst part of it is that before you start hurling those boulders! one hears the protests coming from ex-teachers in the House. I have a copy of the manifesto of the Mr McPHARLIN: Let us consider the activi- Communist Party. ties of the Teachers' Union. Last year it set a very bad example. Mr Bryce: That makes you suspicious! Why are you reading Mr Pearce: Ifyou had stayed at school longer, something like that? My goodness, you might have got the education figures right. gracious me! Mr McPHARLIN: The teachers claimed that Several members interjected. they did not strike-it was a strike; there is no Mr McPHARLIN: Is it not interesting that doubt about that. They set a very bad example to members laugh about it? the children by their attitude of, "If you do not Mr Bryce: Fancy spending your time reading get your own way, just go on strike and you will that! get what you want." That was a totally Mr McPHARLIN: It is humorous. irresponsible attitude; in fact, it was despicable. Mr 1. F. Taylor: Of course it is humorous; it is Mr Pearce: Do farmers ever talk about going like you! You are a joke! on strike? What about farmers when they talk about withholding grain? Mr McPI-ARLIN: Members opposite may think it is funny, but others certainly do not. Mr McPHARLIN: I do not include all teachers in my remarks because a great many of them did Mr Bryce: You have not made a speech like not take part in the strike. I know many teachers this for five years. who expressed their disgust at the union's actions. Mr MePHARLIN: Well, I am making it again. [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 464065

This is a copy of the Communist Party mani- Mr McPHARLIN: He referred to the actions festo and it is taken from a book written by a for- of the Teachers' Union in Victoria. What he dis- mer FBI official. He made these points in 1958 closed to this House was frightening and it rep- and now, in 1981-82, the Communist Party is resents a trend none of us wants to see. checking these goals. This is what it says- Mr Bryce: Do you think the Communists are as Mr Bryce: You did not have to go to the FBI to dangerous as the League of Rights? get a copy. Mr McPHARLIN: That is not what we want Mr McPHARLIN: These are some of the to see, especially when our children are attending points that are made- the schools and are subjected to this sort of in fu- Get control of the Schools. Use them as ence which is contrary to the best characteristics transmission belts for Socialism and current of the Australian people. However, we see it Communist propaganda. Soften the creeping in. Is it any wonder parents are con- curriculum. Get control of the teachers, as- cerned? text books. sociations. Put the Party line in Mr Bryce: Have you ever been tied up with the Then what happened? The Teachers' Union ap- League of Rights? pointed a known Communist as its chief industrial Mr NMcPHARLIN: We also see this influence officer or, as they call him, the chief advocate. creeping into the trade union movement and it Mr Pearce: He is no more a Communist than worries and frightens those of us who have the Maurie Williams. Be careful about what you say best interests of our State at heart. I do not think in relation to former members of the Communist there is a better State in Australia than this State Party. and I do not think there is a better country in the Mr McPHARLIN: Does the member for world than Australia and we must keep it that Gosnells suggest that, because he may not carry a way. We will not tolerate these sorts of actions card, he has changed? Do not be so silly! This is which are taking place. the danger we have in this State. Mr Bryce: Do you think the League of Rights Several members interjected. is just as big a pack of ratbags as the Communist Mr McPHARLIN: This is the danger we have Party? in Australia. The union movement is being infil- Mr McPHARLIN: I have niot mentioned the trated and it is creeping through even into the League of Rights. Teachers' Union. Mr Bryce: That is the other end of the political Mr Bryce: Tom Hartrcy told you it was the spectrum; that is the other bunch of loonies and hoarding creeps of capitalism rather than the extremists. Do you think they are just as bad? creeping hordes of socialism about whom you should be worried. The hoarding creeps of capital- Mr McPHARLIN: They could not be as bad as ism are the greatest threat. the Communists. Mr McPHARLIN: The member has never for- Mr Stephens: They could not be as bad. You gotten my statement about the creeping hordes of know that as well as I do. socialism. We still have them and they are Mr Pearce: He is saying, "Keep Australia free: dangerous. As much as we may not like it, this in- Stamp out dissent"! fluence has infiltrated society. I believe many Mr McPHARLIN: I am prepared to stand up genuine members would have left the Teachfes and say a threat of unrest due to communistic in- Union as a result of the appointment of Mr Latter fluences exists in our State. as the union's chief advocate. Mr Sibson: Hear, hear! Mr Pearce: There is no such thing. Mr McPHARLIN: So we see the trend which Mr McPHARLIN: I defy any member to say is developing and which is of concern. It is all very that is not so. well for members opposite to laugh about it, but it Mr Bryce: Can you name some? is no laughing matter. It is a dangerous situation. Several members interjected. We are very concerned about the trend which is developing. When the member for South Perth Mr McPHARLJN: The elements are there. was Minister for Education, he quoted what was Mr 1. F. Taylor: Go back to sleep for another happening in Victoria. five years! Mr Pearce: He quoted what the previous Minis- Mr Pearce: You are a bit short of concrete evi- ter said was happening in Victoria. dence. (12s) 4066 4066[ASSEMBLY]

Mr McPHARLIN: Do you, Sir, notice how Mr EVANS: I shall touch on that matter and members opposite buck and jump about? All of us clarify it for the benefit of the member for Mt. were shocked recently- Marshall. Before doing so, let me quote the view Mr Pearce: Last week. of the leader of the National Farmers' Federation, Michael David. Of course, he is a very well re- Mr McPHARLIN: -by the tragic accident spected individual in the rural world and his com- involving the schoolboys near Merredin. I wrote a ments made extremely grim reading; they con- letter of sympathy to the parents concerned and I tained nothing but bad news for farmers in re- received a reply from one of the parents the other lation to the Budget brought down by the Liberal- day. That letter contained a comment which has National Party coalition Government in some merit and I have not as yet passed it on to Canberra. the Minister. That man lost a son in the accident. He thanked me for my letter and said, "I think The farmers had discussions with Treasury these small buses sold for bus driving contracts officials and outlined certain requirements which should operate on diesel fuel from now on." He they thought were reasonable and fair in the light went on to say that the industry would adjust to of the circumstances affecting the rural indus- the change and that the reasons for it were obvi- tries. What they received was vastly different ous. Of course, that man is saying that, when the from what they asked for. bus hit the tree, it burst into flames and the chil- The farmers asked for a cut in Government dren were unable to get out. He is indicating that, spending to curtail the expansion of the Civil Ser- had it been a diesel bus, it is very likely it would vice which the Fraser Government indicated it not have burst into flames in the way it did. would do. They asked for a two per cent cut in I make that comment, because it may be worth Government spending, but there will be a 2.5 per cent increase. Expenditure increased to $47 while looking at and it could provide a means of billion. So much for the first request. saving some precious, young lives in the future. The farmers asked for a 20 per cent fertiliser Mr Rushton: That proposition has been put for- bounty, but no change was made. The ward by a number of people and the Minister for superphosphate bounty remains at the level of $12 Education and the Minister for Police and Prisons a tonne which is insignificant compared with the are giving it consideration at the present time. situation which pertained in the days of the Mr McPHARLIN: I am very pleased to hear Whitlam Government. that. A great deal of merit probably can be found The farmers asked for an increase in rural re- in what that bereaved rather was talking about. I search and were answered with cuts in wool re- intended to comment on the inflationary trend, serves. Promotion funds were sought and that re- but insufficient time is left. quest was met with increases in meat prices and Mr Pearce: That is a deflationary trend! cuts in the prices of dairy products. Mr McPHARLIN: No doubt Opposition mem- The requirement of $50 million in adjustment bers will provide some expert advice on it. They funds was reduced to a level of $18 million. The would know all the causes of inflation and how to farmers requested that the Government change cure it! the State drought aid thresholds. This has been a Mr Pearce: I was about to offer to inflate your problem for the States which, on the present for- time, but I don't think I will bother now. mula, have to meet an initial percentage before the Commonwealth will assist. That request was Mr McPHARLIN: I give my full support to ignored. So too was the request for higher interest the Budget. rates on IDS. MR EVANS (Warren) [10.10 p.m.]: I should However, concessions were made in the areas of like to refer to a range of subjects, but before brucellosis and TB. The request for the removal doing that I draw to the attention of the member of tariffs on farm imports was ignored, as was the for Mt. Marshall the actual position of farmers request for soil conservation aids. The request for after their friends in Canberra dealt with them in tax deductibility of farm-based power generation the recent Federal Budget. Members will appreci- was ignored. A request was made for the removal ate that the Federal Budget has a most important of fuel freight differences between country and effect on the Budget we are dealing with in this city and that was answered by a cut in the fuel House. freight subsidy and higher fuel taxes. Mr O'Connor: Remember how the Senate Continued farm managing was maintained. wanted to deal with them on the superphosphate However, if members examine the details, it ap- bounty too? pears that out of the 12 requests made, two were [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 464067 granted; therefore, farmers did not do very well as Mr EVANS: If the member for Bunbury turns a result of the tender ministrations Of Mr his meek little mind to page 8 of today's Daily Howard, the Federal Treasurer in the Liberal- News he will read of the problems that young job National Party coalition. seekers have. He cannot rest on the limp excuse Mr Rushton: Does that bear any relation to that the unemployment has been imported. That same excuse is adopted by Joh Bjelke- Petersen; what happened under the Whitlam Government? these unemployed people cannot be going to every Mr EVANS: The Whitlam Government did not State. do a fraction of the detrimental things this Feder- al Government has done. Under Whitlam, Mr Sibson: The locking up of the Shannon farmers did not suffer to anything like the extent River Basin will take away 300 to 400 jobs. to which they have suffered subsequently. The SPEAKER: Order! The member fr Mr McPharlin: That is rubbish! The Whitlamn Bunbury will cease interjecting. Government ruined the agricultural industry. Mr EVANS: I should correct the point he made. The undertaking was given that the level of Mr EVANS: Members opposite should tell us logging would be maintained as it was projected about the fair price for wool. They would be under working plan No. 7. grovelling on their knees were it not for that and they know it. Mr Sibson: I can understand that the person who gave that undertaking made a mistake, be- It would be remiss of me if I did not touch on cause he knows nothing about logging, but you the unemployment situation in this State. Before know about logging. doing so, however, I shall refer to some figures which I extracted from my Files. Those figures go Mr EVANS: Again I refer to the level of un- back to December 1973, which was the last year employment in Western Australia in December of office of the Tonkin Labor Government. In 1973. 1 emphasise that it was below two per cent. December 1972 the Western Australian figure for I will make closer reference to the comparison of registered registered unemployed was 11 469; in November unemployed with unfilled vacancies at time in 1973. It was 1,71:t, and for Aus- 1973 it was 5 369; and in December 1973 it was that 8 043. The ratio of registered unemployed to tralia as a whole it was 1.3:1. Even though West- ern Australia was slightly behind other unfilled vacancies was 1.7 1:1 in December 1973. States-not all-it was in a healthy position. Western Australia was not doing badly compared with other States. In Australia as a whole, the It is unfortunate that statistics available now do number of unemployed rose in that period by 40.5 not give the levels of unemployment in various per cent-from 73 276 to 202 735. Over the same districts. Such statistics would be revealing for period the percentage of the work force unem- country areas. ployed rose from 1.26 per cent to 1.76 per cent. I will update the figures 1 have given by Those figures are most revealing. I will update referring to the levels of unemployment in the them as I develop the theme of my argument. month of iune 1981. In Western Australia it was The percentage of the work force unemployed 32 400, or 5.4 per cent of the work force. Of in December 197 3 rose to 1.7 5 per cent fromn 1.17 course, the House recalls that in 1973 that per- per cent in November 1973. Can anyone imagine centage was below two per cent. In' 1982 the number increased to 45 300, or 7.3 per cent of the such a figure for unemployment? It was below 2 work force. We are considering per cent. What is it now in Bunbury? The mem- an almost four ber for Bunbury did not mention that the other times multiplication in 1982 of the 1972 figure, night when he spoke on the Budget. and that is an example of the brilliant economic management about which we hear so much! Mr Sibson: You know as well as I do that the 1981, 10 persons were unemployed for every south-west unemployed are mostly immigrants In job vacancy, and in 1982 the number rose to 19. from New South Wales, Victoria, Tasmania, Such a situation cannot be allowed to continue. Queensland, South Australia, and New Zealand. The most pressing problem facing the Australian You only have to look through the list at the CES community is the rate at which unemployment is office to see who are registered. The unemployed increasing. A great need exists for the creation of are coming from other places. jobs. Unless that is done we will experience Mr Bryce: What about the teenage sons and ongoing problems, such as social ills, along with daughters of Bunbury people? economic difficulties that will be akin to disaster. Mr Sibson: Come on, you are down there every Mr Court: On that question of employment in week; you know better than that. the timber industry down south where there has 4068 4068[ASSEMBLY] been a downturn currently in the demand for tim- Government's desire to avoid presenting the stark ber-some of the mills might have to close-do detail of the situation. you agree with the present negotiations so that I will give an indication of the populations of people can work a shorter working week- some towns of the south-west region. A study of possibly, four days' work for four days' these figures is important and indicates the im- pay-while the downturn in demand exists? pact of our economic ills on that area. The de- Mr EVANS: One mill has opted for that course creases in populations are relevant to the levels of rather than for redundancies. unemployment in total. The distinguishable trend Mr Davies: Is it legal? throughout Western Australia in the last two dec- Mr EVANS: The more skilled employees will ades is an overall decline in rural populations. leave their present employment as a result of their Only in certain areas as a result of particular cir- having to work only four days a week, and will cumstances can growth be seen. For example, in seek employment elsewhere. 1965 the population of Bunbury was 14 800, and in 1975 it had grown to 19 513. The last census I refer now to automation and technology. Only results available are for 1975. In the period from last evening a call was made for an indication of 1965 to 1975 Collie declined in population from whether training was carried out in our schools 9 200 to 7 580. for jobs that will never exist. I interjected to say that shorthand and typing training is a simple il- Mr Bryce: Part of that transfer was the mem- lustration of what is happening in our community. ber for Runbury, wasn't it? Word processors at a cost of $3 000 or $4 000 do Mr Sibson: That's right! the work of six or seven girls. This change means Mr EVANS: The population of Busselton in- there will be no typing pools in banks, insurance creased in that period from 6510 to 7897. companies, and Government departments. How- Manjimup dropped from 9 820 to 8 402; ever, female students are being taught shorthand Bridgetown from 3610 to 2744; and Boyup and typing when everybody knows that there will Brook from 2 350 to 1 826. Donnybrook increased never be jobs for them. from 2 230 td 2 286. Bunbury showed an increase Mr P. V. Jones: Your leader and deputy leader of approximately 5 000, and Busselton an increase keep saying we have to improve our technology. of approximately 1 000. No doubt these increases Mr Sibson: I think you will find the trend is re- have continued- versing strongly. Mr Laurance: No doubt the areas have good Mr EVANS: The level at which jobs are members. vanishing in Australia is alarming. The timber in- Mr EVANS: That inference does not necess- dustry is relevant to our consideration. Changes in arily follow logically. It is expected that Bunbury, automation and technology within the timber in- Busselton, and Collie have had increases since dustry are enormous. We now have the use of 1975. No doubt when the latest census figures are band saws for hardwoods and gunshot saw published, decreases will be revealed in benches which have revolutionised the cutting of Bridgetown, Boyup Brook, and Manjimup. timber. Undoubtedly a large number of jobs have Manjimup suffered a decrease of approximately been lost and will be lost as a result of automation I1400 over one decade. and technology. I have shown the population trends of country Mr Sibson: I take it you wouldn't support a 38- areas, and I will submit a corollary which is influ- hour week then? enced to some extent by the remarks of the mem- Mr EVANS: I do not think anybody can come ber for Mt. Marshall. The Western Australian up with an overall solution to these problems, but Council of Social Service produced a series of at least an organised and co-ordinated approach articles during poverty week which commenced on should be adopted. Preferably this approach 26 July this year. The articles referred to the should be followed at a Federal level, but at pres- levels of wages in Australia and, in particular, in ent no start has been made on such an approach. Western Australia. Poverty week was launched by All we have had is more fiddling as Rome burns. the council, and I must emphasise that the council I am rather anxious to point out that as the has provided an extraordinarily good service figures 1 have quoted are as at 10 June they are which has enabled some of the remarks made bj' reasonably up to date. The present figures are not people such as the member for Mt. Marshall to be as comprehensive as they were before the change put in perspective. of presentation of employment and unemployment Mr Bryce: He would not know what poverty figures, a change which indicates the Federal was. [Wednesday, 203October 1982J1Q6 4Q69

Mr EVANS: The aim of poverty week was not normal circumstances. When one thinks of the only to press for Government action, but also to exotic diseases associated with vegetables and fish help the State's 190000 people living below the being brought into this country one realises that poverty line. In the State of Western Australia, the results could be alarming. which has a population of just over one million What was, even more alarming was that the people, that is not a record of which to be proud. first customs officer went across to obviously a It also endeavoured to impress upon the Western senior officer and brought him back to the coun- Australian community that it has a responsibility ter. The senior officer said, "That is all right, you in this day and age to be aware of this problem can go through." This information was given to and to take some action in regard to it. During me by a reliable individual. that week the plight of people living below the poverty line was highlighted, as was the fact that Mr Old: Where did this occur? emergency services are being overtaxed to an ex- Mr EVANS: It occurred about one month ago tent where they cannot cope. Further, it showed a at Perth Airport. The plane landed about 2.00 need for State and Federal Governments, by a.m. When I considered the bird, animal, and improved levels of pensions and benefits and pro- plant diseases that could be associated with this vision of funds for emergency relief, to accept a incident I thought it was a matter that should be greater responsibility for people living in poverty. raised. I request that the Minister make some in- Mr Bryce: People like the member for Mt. quiry to ascertain whether the action taken can be Marshall would have to pay a little more tax, if qualified and to ascertain whether the procedures you are suggesting that should be called at Perth Airport are operating in a proper man- redistribution. ner. Mr EVANS: The Western Australian Council Mr Old: Was she diverted through to quaran- of Social Service is the co-ordinating body of non- tine, because the customs officers should have had Government welfare agencies and its function is nothing to do with it? to provide emergency relief to families and indi- Mr EVANS: No, she went through customs viduals experiencing poverty. As I have said, the and was allowed through. level of 190 000 people below the poverty line is Mr Blaikie: It sounds to me as though the most significant and it is only fair to indicate, by customs officers had had a heavy day, but that is an interpretation of the definition, just what is no excuse for that to occur. being spoken of. The definition goes back to the time Of Professor Henderson and the Henderson Mr EVANS: That is why I raised the matter. report and it has been updated successfully since The box had been opened. 1976. Mr Old: I would never be able to get through The poverty line is defined by the council as like that. being $94.70 per week for a single person living Mr Blaikie: I came through customs three away from home and $150 per week for a married weeks ago and they wanted to know if I had any couple with two children. It is not an extraordi- colour televisions to declare. I went through con- narily large amount. The council has tried to siderable screening. show Governments that single unemployed people Mr EVANS: I can understand that when some receive $36.60 per week below the poverty line. of the colleagues of members opposite- This demonstrates the point that I wish to make and, of course, the situation is being exacerbated Mr Old: Don't be like that. each year. Mr EVANS: A further point I wish to raise is While the Minister for Agriculture is in the in connection with a visit I undertook a month House, I would like to refer to an incident which ago to Narrogin and Pingelly where I had the op- occurred at Perth Airport, which incident should portunity to look at WISALTS interceptor banks. not be allowed to pass without being brought to This matter has been discussed in this House on a the attention of this House. It concerns the return number or occasions and always I have raised of a Western Australian person from South-East queries with regard to the effectiveness and ef- Asia. He was preceded to the customs hall by a ficiency of the banks, but I must say that on this Chinese lady who was carrying two rather large occasion I had several illustrations shown to me boxes. He said they were rather heavy because he where, at least, I could draw some conclusions. had lifted one of them onto the counter. It was On the property of [cx Hardy in Narrogin. I opened by a customs officers and it contained was able to see the progressive work he has under- sausages, fish, vegetables, fruit, and nuts--a taken in banking out gulleys that have been affec- ra.ige of goods that probably would be banned in ted. The results have not been spectacular, but 4070 4070[ASSEMBLY] that was not the case in the other two illustrations But there they have used legislation and other to which I will refer. techniques to correct the problem. In Pingelly, on the property of a Mr Johnston, I At the same time, WZSALTS has introduced a was shown a broad drainer valley that had be- machine which is adapted to structure the banks come completely salt affected and it was beneath rather than a bulldozer having to be used with its a very large sandhill at the shoulder of the apex fairly restricted load, and it is hoped to reduce, by which had been completely cut by an interceptor about half, the construction price of the banks. bank through an entire salt flat. The water had It is obvious that the construction of the continued to flow. I understand that it flows Whittington interceptor banks will continue, but I throughout summer and the water is starting to am concerned that the various departments are become fresh. Trees are starting to show signs of not involved in more research and the monitoring growth on the salt pan side of the bank. of this development to the extent they should be. The third property I visited belonged to a Mr Experiments have been carried out at Batalling Edwards. Creek, and also on Mr Des Keys' property. These Mr Davies: How long have the banks been on experiments have not been accepted as being con- these properties? clusive, but it is well nigh time that the Govern- Mr EVANS: For a couple of years. Mr ment demonstrated a higher level of input than Edwards has a property which slopes gently to a has been made in the past. I return to the point great salt-affected flat. The flat area of land was that it seems ludicrous that the farmers have had totally salt affected and the three banks ran par- to be involved in this way, and certainly the re- allel across the property following the contours. lationship between the farmers and the depart- The first showed water that had been drained out ments is not harmonious. Mr Whittington has was saline. The second one was midway to being achieved a much better level of public relations fresh. than have the Government departments. For that reason I feel there must be a change in the ap- Mr Edwards has spent $30 000 this year and proach being made by the Government. I do not he is so impressed with the results that he is bud- think the existing situation can continue. There geting for another $30 000. The question now is must be some formalisation of the scheme, and it becoming ludicrous-there is more money spent is most important that there is official input. by farmers on salt reclamation than there is by the Government. From what I saw, the results I wish to refer to several other matters, but I have been successful. Where success of this kind will mention these when we are debating the div- can be achieved, the approach to further research isions. should be looked at with a greater degree of MR WILLIAMS (Clontarf) [10.47 p.m.]:- I interest and effectiveness than it has in the past. would like to compliment the Treasurer on the At the annual WISALTS dinner this year, a re- manner in which he has presented the Budget. port compiled by the President (Mr Lloyd Once again we have a balanced Budget. Richards) and Mr Mills was presented. These two I refer to the comments made by the Leader of men had visited the United States where they had the Opposition last night. I commend him for his undertaken studies of reclamation of saline land. determination in regard to an absolute commit- Unfortunately I have not yet received a copy of ment to economic growth. Of course, we are all the report which I have been promised. Therefore, interested in economic growth, but when the it is purely on newspaper reports and discussions Leader of the Opposition made his comments, that I am able to offer any comment. Mr surely he must have had tongue in cheek in view Richards delivered the report on the findings fol- of the past performance of his party and the lowing discussions with some of the top salinity people he represents. scientists in the world. Mention was made of the The following report of the comments of the Whittington interceptor banks. Leader of the Opposition appeared in this even- A seminar was held at Esperance recently and ing's newspa per- one of those persons in attendance was Mr Harry Whittington, but he fitted into a small segment Speaking during the Budget debate, Mr rather controversially towards the end of the sem- Burke said payroll tax was a big disincentive inar. Mr Richards said that the American cure to employment. for salinity was different from ours in that they That may be true in some cases, but I have been talk about their country being used for millions of an employer for at least 26 years, and I believe we years. have learned to live with payroll tax. A Federal [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 474071

Government introduced payroll tax in approxi- In a recent national building trades decision, it mately 1942. Mr Curtin was the then Prime Min- was recognised that increased wages and reduced ister, and the objective of this tax was to decrease hours have adverse economic consequences. How- employment of people in private business so that ever, as a result of this action before the full more would work in munition factories or join the bench of the Conciliation and Arbitration Com- armed forces. That was a commendable idea, but mission, a reduction in working hours was it has been continued as a revenue raiser. The granted. That happened in January of this year. Commonwealth Government found that it was In its report the commission stated- able to dispense with ibis tax and it passed the buck to the States. We acknowledge that the granting of claims will substantially I am very grateful that this year the Treasurer increase real costs. saw fit to increase the level of exemption from In the same decision the commission went on to payroll tax, but I repeat that we have learned to say- live with it. I do not believe it is a disincentive to We accept the submissions of the Minister the employment of labour. The biggest for Works on behalf of the Government of disincentives to the employment of labour are Western Australia that the added costs will wage spiralling, shorter hours, and industrial dis- have an impact on the finances of the putation. Government and that a move towards Mr Clarko: Hear, hear! reduction in standard working hours may Mr WILLIAMS: Reduced hours of work, ex- reduce the effectiveness of economic policy cessive wage demands, and industrial disputation directed towards lowering the rate of in- are the real causes of increased prices. Increased flation. These are problems which must also labour costs must be passed on to the public in the confront the Governments of other States form of higher prices for goods and services. State and the Commonwealth... Government policies are geared towards restoring To me that is a negative argument, but it is an economic growth and full employment wherever example of what the employers must put up with. possible, but the effectiveness of these policies is It is beyond reason to ask the employers to toler- rather nullified by the ever-increasing demands ate much more. for more wages, fewer hours, and more industrial The State Government often has put forward disputation. Employers can overcome this prob- the view that industrial stoppages pose a very real lem only by reducing staff. In the face of threat to our economy, and a great majority of decreasing profits, employers do not have suf- the public agree with this view. A worker's stan- ficient dollars and cents to automate their factor- dard of living depends essentially on the viability ies, so they have no alternative but to reduce staff. of the firm for which he works. If that firm is The WA manufacturing industry does not rely economically viable, the future of the employee is on just one or two large enterprises: many small assured. However, when there are continual manufacturing firms employ 30 or fewer people. industrial disruption and demands for increased With this continual wage spiralling, industrial dis- wages and shorter hours, the employees lose out putation, and demands for shorter working hours, on wages,' wages which they never seem to make small firms do not have the capital backing to up. Some union leaders never seem to understand cope. So the end result is a reduction in staff and his point. In the long run, many workers lose their profits, and that situation does not bode well for jobs and the company for which they work is the State. placed in jeopardy. I was interested to note the The mining industry and our rural industries figures released by the Bureau of Statistics for are dependent upon overseas markets. When there April of this year. The days lost per year through is a downturn in the overseas markets, it is industrial disputations are shown from 1979 as reasonable to assume that we cannot increase follows- prices. However, because of wage increases, in- dustrial disputes, and shorter hours, mining Year Man Days Lost companies are left with no alternative but to i n- 1979 348 000 crease prices. In the case of companies which are 1980 191 000 based outside the metropolitan area, when staff is 1981 244 000 reduced, employees leave the particular town in Up to April 1982 83 000 which they have lived, and then, if markets do So it can be seen that the figures for this year will improve, the companies have difficulty in ob- be no better than those for previous years. That taining the staff to do the work. does not bode well for the future of this State. 4072 4072[ASSEMBLY]

Mr Gordon Hill: Were all those days lost that youngsters of this age have no experience at through strikes? all. Some provision must be made to pay these Mr WILLIAMS: Most of them. youngsters a lower salary so that they might gain experience and enjoy a full salary at 21 years of Mr Gordon Hill: All of them? age. Mr WILLIAMS: The recent decisions of the Australian Conciliation and Arbitration Com- The Leader of the Opposition has been talking mission are quite staggering. 1 refer to the de- about letting the economy flow. I have referred to cision in the case of a claim for a 35-hour week by industrial disputation and the great number of the work force of Alcoa of Australia Ltd. Part of strikes in this country. I wish to say a few words the finding of the commission reads as follows- about the strikes, and I will start by dealing with. the waterfront. What a. disgraceful record the In June through to early August 1980 waterfront has as far as strikes are concerned! unions respondent to the award engaged in direct action in support of their claim for a Australia relies on overseas trade and that point 35-hour week. During July, this caused full cannot be underestimated. During the year 1979- Ishut down' of the refinery, the first time of 8O, a total of 13 478 000 tonnes of overseas goods an alumina refinery anywhere in the world. were unloaded in Australia. During the same year, 38 129 000 tonnes were loaded. Those fig- What an indictment on this State! It continues- ures represent 77 per cent of the loadings on the We were advised that the stoppage re- waterfront and the total waterfront wages bill for sulted in a financial loss of approximately that year was $137 million, of which $17 million $40 million before tax or $20 million in after was provided for unproductive services. In other tax profit.... words, the waterside workers who were not work- "Let us get the economy flowing", says the ing were still being paid, and it cost the shipping Leader of the Opposition. How can we get the companies $17 million. economy flowing when we have this sort of loss of There has always been a great deal of coun- revenue? terproductive activity on the waterfront; in the Mr Herzfeld: What about the royalties that are year 1980-81, 159800 man hours were lost di- lost to the State? rectly and indirectly due to industrial disputes af- Mr WILLIAMS: I will come to that in a min- fecting waterside workers. These are costs that go ute. We hear constantly about all the young directly to the shipping companies. When the men people who cannot find employment. I am con- go back to work, because of the backlog of ships, cerned about this matter, and particularly in re- naturally they work overtime, so it does not worry gard to apprentices. A fair proportion of the them unduly. However, what we must consider is blame for this problem lies in the fact that in the the shipping companies which are held up day in last 10 years a first-year apprentice's rate of pay and day out, paying demnurrage costs of up to has increased from 18 to 40 per cent of the rate of $6 000 a day while their ships are in port. For in- a qualified tradesman. Such an increase does not stance, in 1981, a total of 81 ships were held up encourage employers to offer apprenticeships. I throughout Australia because of a strike, at an es- suggest that we should revert to six-year appren- timated cost of $1.5 million per day in demurrage ticeships so that an apprentice would commence fees. at 15 years of age and complete his term at 21 An indirect victim of the maritime industry was years of age. the General Motors-Holdens company. When the 'Mr Davies: Why stop at 21? company joined in the world car programme the Mr WILLIAMS: By that time the person portion of the vehicle to be assembled in Australia should have sufficient experience in his job to re- was the engine. The cars were to be assembled in ceive full pay. Under the Act, many juniors of 18 England and on the continent. The waterside years of age receive Cull pay, and this is a disad- workers decided they were going to go on strike. vantage to employers. Incidentally, it is To stand by their contracts, General Motors- interesting to note that under the building trades Holdens had to airfreight the engines at a cost of construction award-this does not apply to ap- $400 per engine. These costs were added to the prentices, but to all other workers-a young per- price of commodities, when the money could have son of any age who commences work must be paid gone into general revenue. a full rate of pay. Surely something should be It would be of interest to the farmers that done about this provision because no employer in Japan has a contract with Australia to take 2 000 his right mind would employ a 15-year-old who tonnes of beef a month. Japan expects that order must be paid a senior's award rate. Do not forget to be delivered in the proper fashion, in a regular [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 474073 manner. A series of dock strikes in 1981 resulted that if it did not pull its socks up, Japan would in delays to shipping of up to two or three months look elsewhere for its markets. which, in turn, created a temporary glut of beef When that was said, of course, the mining on the Australian market, and lower prices unions said, "Nonsense! We have a competitive throughout Australia. Because of that, Japan is product. Our freight charges are lower. They now looking to other countries from which to buy wouldn't dare go elsewhere." So it is that the its beef. Mitsui Cement Company in Japan ordered 25 000 Australia's waterfront is in a deplorable con- tonnes of steaming coal from Colorado, USA; the dition according to world standards. That has reason was that an order of 43 000 tonnes from been stated by Casimir Prince Wittgenstein, who the Hunter Valley was held up when the ships in is the Deputy Chairman of MetalIlgesellIsehaft in Newcastle Harbour were banned from leaving be- West Germany. He made the following com- cause of a dispute over the flag of convenience. ment- Twelve ships were held up in that strike; and the Australia is becoming too well known demurrage costs were 56 000 a day per ship. Temn- overseas for its high incidence of pers flared, and the buyer-seller relations split strikes ... , restraints should be applied in apart, because the buyer said, "You are respon- wage demands otherwise your (Australia's) sible for the demurrage costs", and of course the coal companies said, "Once we have delivered to competitive market in world markets will be- responsibility." That is another come eroded. the ship, it is your example of an instance where we have lost Perhaps that is the reason Germany takes only overseas exports because of strike action; but four per cent of Australia's exports. "Let's get the economy on the road", says the Op- It is interesting to note also that in 1981 Aus- position! tralia accounted for 10 per cent of the world's Mr I. F. Taylor: Why do you not get back onto tonnage of shipping calling at it ports, but it ac- freeways? That is much more interesting. counted for 53.45 per cent of all international Mr WILLIAMS: It must be remembered also insurance claims. That is an absolutely disgrace- that by the 1960s, Australia took a great deal of ful indictment of the waterfront in Australia. The the American market for coal for the very reason country with the next highest record was Sweden, that we are losing it today-because of strike ac- which accounted for only 12 per cent of the tion.* It is interesting to note that the freight costs claims. Of course, as a direct result of Australian in Australia are half those of America; but the maritime strikes, insurance premiums for Aus- Japanese are prepared to pay twice the freight tralian companies have increased immeasurably costs to maintain continuity of supply. When are and, in many cases, it has become so expensive we going to wake up to that fact? that the shipping companies are not allowing their It is not only Japan that is concerned. The ships to come to Australian ports. British Central Electric Generating Board is a Let us consider the coal industry-! will leave major buyer of New South Wales coal. It was Collie coal out of this. The Federal Government taking 1.26 million ton nes of coal per year but, has estimated that the economic reserves of cok- again because of strike action, as the board could ing and steaming coal in Australia should last for not be guaranteed deliveries, it cut its order to more than 120 years. The coal industry is of a 1.03 million tonnes-a decrease of 13 per cent. great and growing importance to Australia's ex- That is far too great a cut to be caused by strike port markets. In 1970, the exports totalled 43.4 action; but "Let's get the economy back on the million tonnes per annum; and they had risen to road", says the Opposition! 78 million tonnes by 1980. It is expected that the I deal now with the iron ore industry. Australia exports will rise to 11IS million tonnes by 1990. has developed a reputation as an unreliable sup- That is an excellent export market. plier of iron ore. Let us think back to the Of course, the source of our coal supply is rela- Hamersley Iron Pty. Ltd. iron ore strike of 1979. tively close to Japan and the price is right. Our We should remember that 95 days and 595 freight charges are lower than those of most other million in turnover were lost with strikes. countries. However, in 1981, because of 102 Mr 1. F. Taylor: That was three years ago. strikes affecting the coal industry in the Eastern States, Japan was so concerned that it sent a Mr WILLIAMS: That does not matter. What deputation to find out the problem, and to try to happened then has had an effect on unemploy- overcome it. Japan told Australia that it could not ment today. tolerate that sort of nonsense. Australia was told Mr I. F. Taylor: Rubbish! 4074 4074[ASSEMBLY]

Mr WILLIAMS: The employees on strike lost workers." H-e said that, because Of Wage rises in $7 million in wages and it cost the shipping the export industry, he was retrenching people. companies $3 million in demurrage costs. We lost This is mainly due to wage rises and shorter work- an estimated $13 million in goods and services not ing hours. But we hear Opposition members tell- supplied. Further, 100 of 187 apprentices were ing us to get the economy on the road! It is diffi- put off. This meant a loss of continued employ- cult with this sort of nonsense. ment for many people employed outside I have a real clanger here. It is a memo from Hamersley Iron Pty. Ltd. the Australian Petroleum Exploration Association One of the serious effects of this strike was that Ltd. and is dated 18 May 1982. It reads- Korea ran out of iron ore and so turned to Japan for its supplies, which it had to buy at an inflated Esso BHP announced today that the semi- price. The Government of Korea said this would submersible rig Penrod 74 is being returned not happen again and that it would not tolerate to the Philippines. such a situation, so it is now buying iron ore else- It had been hired by Esso BHP in the Philippines where because of the stupidity of this sort of in- to be brought here under the guidance of two tugs dustrial disruption. to explore for oil. The rig and the tugs were cost- Mr 1. F. Taylor: So Korea is buying all of its ing S100 000 a day, yet all of a sudden when iron ore elsewhere? those tugs were at sea bringing down Penrod '74 in Mr WILLIAMS: Most of it. an effort to create employment and to help stimu- late the economy if oil was found, the maritime Let us consider now the amount of royalties lost unions became involved. To continue- to the State because of strikes. The 1979 strike at Mt. Newman cost the State SI million in The reason is that the maritime unions royalties. That strike concerned the arrest of have refused to supply the rig unless 2$ mari- unionists and shift roster pay increases. In time unionists per roster be placed on board. February 1980, Dampier Mining Co. Ltd. experi- giving a total employment requirement of 50 enced a strike over a log of claims, and the men. The reason is that the maritime unions Government lost $500 000 in royalties. now classify the Penrod 74 as a self-propelled A further strike in April and May of 1980 rig. This is a difficult position to justify since mainly involving Mt. Newman Mining Company the unions are fully aware that: Pty. Ltd. resulted in a loss of $3 million. A dis- (a) the rig's thrusters are used for station pute involving Cliffs Robe River Iron Associates keeping purposes in May 1980 cost the State $500 000 in royalties. (b) there is no work on board for 25 mari- All this money has been lost to Consolidated time unionists Revenue and could have been used for capital ex- Who needs the maritime unions when we do not penditure. "Get the economy on the road", the have a ship, but just a rig? To continue- Opposition cries. How can we do that when we (c) there is no accommodation on board for are forever troubled with strikes? 25 additional men I have heard members of the Opposition saying (d) the Penrod 74 has previously operated in that reduced hours per week will have no effect on Australia without maritime unionists. the economy. I have here a letter to customers from Graham Hart Galvanising Industries Pty. This had been done before, but all of a sudden the Ltd.: it is one letter of many from firms in WA, comrades of the maritime unions decided they and is dated 20 July 1982; it reads as follows- would stop further exploration for oil. Have mem- bers ever heard of such procrastination and non- Dear Sir, sensical attitudes? Re: Galvanizing Charge Rates. Before Esso BHP finally realised its position Regrettably we advise that due to the ef- was hopeless, that it would be foolish to proceed, fects of the recent introduction of the 38 hour and gave in to the maritime unions, the rig was working week, we find it necessary to in- already I I days out to sea. It had to turn around cease our charge rates by 8 per cent. and use another I I days to travel back to the The rate increase will take effect as from Philippines. The hire of the rig was $60 000 a day Ist August, 1982. and the cost of the tugs was $40 000 a day, mak- Yet we hear members of the Opposition saying ing a total of $100000 a day. In my calculation that a 38-hour week will not affect prices. in the 5 that makes a total of $2.5 million lost by the May edition of the Daily News it was reported company plus the damages involved in getting out that Mr Kailis had said, "We have had to sack of the contract. [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 474075

Members should bear in mind that no need gent piece of legislation, which had a remarkable existed for the 25 maritime unionists to be on effect-it had teeth. However, the Western Aus- board. The State lost three months' use of the rig tralian Noise Abatement Act still is based on the by the company in an effort to Find oil which British legislation drawn up in the 1960s. Our would help our economy. The rig required 50 to legislation is basically 20 years out of date. Dur- 60 men to man each shift and it was bringing four ing that period enormous growth has occurred in experts from the Philippines, which means that the industrial development of this State, and par- about 56 people were to be hired from this State. ticularly in the growth of traffic in the mc tropoli- It must be borne in mind that these figures are tan area. multiplied by two to account for the second shift. A rundown of our public transport system has We lost the aircraft for crew changes;, we lost the occurred along with the construction of freeways. contracts for food supplies which would have We are witnessing a greater concentration on the amounted to many millions of dollars; we lost on use of motor vehicles in this city. Our present the use of a helicopter and its crew; we missed out planning seems to be centred on motor vehicles, on having a diving company and the use of its and this means that the Noise Abatement Act is gear; and we missed out on all the component more out of date and inappropriate than it was in parts for the operations. The extent to which we the past. missed out is immeasurable. Can anyone imagine Under our legislation, local authorities are re- the tonnes of wire ropes, shackles, grease, oil, and quired to carry out enforcement, a process which fuel that would have been involved? The amount is cumbersome and expensive. Local authorities of steel pipe and timber involved must be con- are required to sere notice on individuals or in- sidered, as must be the stand-by vessel that must dustries believed to be making an excessive noise. be alongside a rig as a safety precaution all the If the notice is ignored, the local authority in due time it is in operation. Technical services would course will pass a resolution to instruct its solici- have been required along with cement specialists, tors to issue a summons on the individual or in- and so on. I have been told by people involved dustry. with the oil drilling industry and this particular rig that Western Australia would have lost more Local authorities generally do not sit more fre- than $100 million in turnover as a result of the quently than every month or two months, and by rig's not reaching this State. the time the resolution is passed, the summons issued, and the matter heard before a court, the The Leader of the Opposition should stop nuisance may have ceased. The 1974 British leg is- talking with tongue in cheek, and wake up to him- lation streamlined the British procedure. Its new self. lHe should wake up also to the fact that this legislation, the Noise Pollution Act, does not re- State is more important than is the Labor Party or nonsensical unions. This State has to get back gard noise as a nuisance as does the Western Aus- on the go, and the only way that will occur is for tralian legislation, but regards it appropriately as it to be under the control of a proper Government. a pollution. Mr 1. F. Taylor: That's quite right-a Labor Noise abatement legislation in Australia re- Government. gards noise as a nuisance; it places the onus of proof on the complainant. The British legislation Mr WILLIAMS: I support the Bill. adopts the opposite approach; it puts the onus on MR GORDON HILL (Swan) [11.22 p.m.]: I the industry, developer, or town planner involved will refer to an issue of importance to my elector- to satisfy the relevant authorities that noise will ate. an issue canvassed on past occasions by the be within the required limits before an industry, shadow Minister for Health. Discussion on this development, or town plan can be approved. The matter arose in 1981 when the Government sub- British legislation adopts a preventive approach mitted amendments to the Noise Abatement Act, whereas our legislation operates only after the which was introduced in 1972 by the Tonkin event. Labor Government. The Western Australian legislation does not Until 1972, no noise abatement legislation specify statutory noise limits for noise emanating existed in this State. In fact, the Western Aus- from industrial machinery. Machinery sold in tralian legislation set a trend in Australia. and Western Australia may well comply with thec Aus- was modelled on the British legislation drawn up tralian design standards-its noise may well be in the 1960s. within legally and reasonably tolerated The British Act after a period was found to be limits-but, if the machinery is modified after defective-it lacked teeth. In 1974, the British purchase, the noise level may well be intolerable. Government replaced that Act with a more strin- The modification may well be legal, but the noise 076 4076[ASSEMBLY] resulting from that modification may be above The people residing in that area should be entitled reasonable limits. An example is a legally modi- to some sort of compensation to assist them to fled motor vehicle muffler system. overcome difficulties created by the Government's Mr Davies: Haven't they rewritten the regu- decision. lations yet for industrial noise? Mr Bertram: Hear, hear! Mr GORDON HILL: The regulations have Mr GORDON HILL: People in Guildford are been rewritten, but they are merely guidelines and having to tolerate the problem of congested traffic are not satisfactory. The Western Australian Act because there is only one bridge over the Swan ignores traffic noise, the noise of greatest concern River at Guildford. The traffic through Guildford 'to the people of my electorate. is very heavy and an enormous noise problem re- sults from traffic flowing through Guildford. The Traffic noise can be lessened a great deal by point I want to make is that before these sorts of careful town planning. If it cannot be lessened by decisions are made by Governments noise-impact proper planning, such as in an area in which studies should be carried out. Perhaps a better houses already exist, Governments ought to con- example of careful planning is in respect of sider some form of compensation to assist the scheme l0oin High Wycombe. As that develops, it people living in those houses to protect themselves will be adjacent to the airport area, and we all from the noise pollution. The compensation could know the difficulties associated with airport noise. be for the provision of double glazed windows, For some tutne now there has been talk about a air-conditioning, or insulation. Similar compen-: curfew, and about three years ago the Federal sation is provided in some States of Australia, and Government indicated that a curfew would be es- certainly it is provided in many overseas sential in Perth. In fact, every other capital city in countries, and is paid as a result of some Govern- Australia has a curfew. The application of a ment decision making traffic noise a problem to curfew in Perth is perhaps something that the the people concerned. Federal and State Governments should consider. On various occasions the Opposition has raised I do not want to dwell on this matter for too the need for noise impact studies. Before new long, but I want to point out that it concerns not roads are constructed or developed there ought to only the people of my electorate, but also all be a study similar to an environmental impact Western Australians. The Government should study into the noise effect on the local area. Mem- look very carefully at the noise abatement legis- bers would know that a highway is planned to ex- lation which it introduced last year with a view to tend into the Midland area. That highway largely writing in significant amendments to improve it so will traverse industrial areas, but parts of it wilt that we can have an effective control of noise pol- go through residential areas in Bellevue, High lution in Western Australia. Wycombe, and Forrestfield. The people there will Mr Bertram: Hear, hear! be affected by the Government's decision to put the highway through that area. Increasing MR WATT' (Albany) [ 11.35 p.m.]: I want to reliance on the use of motor vehicles due to the say a few words in support of the Budget, and run-down state of our public transport system has perhaps I will give the old parish pump a few led to increasing traffic flows, and the sorts of pushes! problems associated with heavy traffic use will be Mr Pearce: And remind everyone an election is magnified in the future. coming! Another example 6f the problem caused by Mr Nanovich: Hear, hear! traffic noise is in the Morrison Road area. Mor- Mr WATT: Have I not done that with every rison Road extends through a large part of my Budget speech since I have been in this place? electorate and it is being used increasingly. When The Budget is described fairly by some people as it becomes a one-way road in the future, it will be being a people's Budget. heavily used by motor vehicles and weighty Mr Bertram: Which people? trucks. In one of the proposals put forward by the Mr Pearce: It has an unfortunate Communist Midland and Districts Chamber of Commerce, the Swan Shire Council, the residents of ring about it! Guildford, and me there was a suggestion that a Mr Old: It is for thinking people. bridge would be built across the Swan River at Mr WATT: It is all very well for the Oppo- the end of Morrison Road to join Morrison Road sition to make fun of that remark, but the truth is and Morley Drive. If that happens-and I sin- that it operates under some sort of a cargo cult cerely hope that it eventually will-it will mean mentality, the hand-outs syndrome. I do not know an increased traffic flow along Morrison Road. whether anybody has been keeping a tally of the [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 407707 hand-outs which have been spoken about so far, Mr WATT: I will bow to your direction, Mr but it would be interesting to see them costed. Deputy Speaker. I was particularly pleased with The Budget is very responsible. The allocations the initiatives that have been taken in respect of to the sensitive areas of health and related housing. It is no secret that the housing services always are awaited with interest in any' industry- Budget and the fact that the Government has Mr Bertram: The housing industry? been able to increase both of those by fairly, Mr WATT: I wish the member for Mt. Haw- substantial amounts is a credit to it. thorn would be quiet. The Deputy Speaker has asked me to ignore interjections. The hour is late. The education vote has been increased to Mr I. F. Taylor: The Deputy Speaker probably almost $550 million which is an increase of $69.1 is just getting his own back! million and again the increase of 14.4 per cent over last year is greater than the increase in the Mr WATT: The member might be right. expected revenue. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If the member for Hospital and health services are to receive Kalgoorlie wishes to make interjections, I suggest $511.6 million against $448.9 million last year, he does so from his proper seat, otherwise action which represents an increase of 14 per cent,' also will be taken. The House will come to order! I call ahead of the percentage increase in revenue. on the member for Albany. Mr Hodge: How did the Albany Regional Hos- Mr WATT: I was commenting that I was very pital fare though? What was its percentage in- pleased to see the initiatives that have been taken crease? in the area of housing because housing, for a var- iety of reasons-especially interest rates and the Mr WATT: Would the member like to suggest availability of finance-has been in a depressed to me what the problems are at the Albany Re- state throughout Western Australia. The Govern- gional Hospital? ment is setting the standard by making extra Mr Hodge: No, hut I'd like to know what the funds available for this purpose this year. The al- percentage increase was. location for the SHC, from State funds for wel- Mr WATT: Individual hospital budgets, as the fare housing, increased from $7 million last year member would know, are not included in the to $20.2 million this year and I am sure that will Budget. prove to be a stimulus to the building industry, Mr Hodge: I thought you would have taken the which is an important section of small business. trouble to find out. Following on fairly interestingly from that is The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I suggest that the the fact that the Government has seen fit to raise member address the Chair. If he ignores the the exemption level for payroll tax for small interjections, he will make progress. businesses. This year the taxation exemption level was raised to S$125 000 and resulted in another Mr WATT: Yes, I think that is a wise piece of advice. 600 small businesses being freed from the liability to pay payroll tax. Many others will pay less. Mr Old: Hear, hear! The Leader of the Opposition said-and he was Mr WATT: I will comment on the member for quite correct-that no responsible Government is Melville's interjection by saying that, despite his in a position to do away with payroll tax at the obvious interest in the health area-he is the Op- moment, despite the fact that many of us would position spokesman -for -that subject-i would .be love to get rid of it. very doubtful whether he could give me a detailed breakdown of any hospital within his own elector- It is a discriminatory tax and I describe it as an ate, let alone in any other electorate. anti-employment tax. Small businesses form a large part of the industry in this State and should Mr Bryce: I think your Minister flogged off the be relieved of that burden. only hospital in his electorate to his mates. The member for Gosnells referred to. and asked Mr Pearce: That is right; a deliberate move too! questions about, the situation at the Albany Mr WATT: Perhaps the member would like to Senior High School. I would like to get the whole tell me what he has taken the trouble to inquire matter in perspective so members will not be mis- into. led in any way. Since 1973, when a severe fire oc- The DEPUTY -SPEAKER: I suggest that the curred in the school, the buildings have deterio- member make progress by addressing his remarks rated gradually and, since 1974, 1 have agitated .to the Chair. I repeat my suggestion that he for an additional high school to be built, as other ignore the interjections. members probably have been doing also. 4078 4078ASSEMBLY]

We were told there would be little paint in Mr Pearce: The worry you ought to have is pouring money into a new building or going ahead that, if this sum is to be spent on your school, it with an additional school when the optimum may be reasonable to say that a sum of $450 000 number which could be catered for in the old will go into the next Budget. However, there are school had not been reached. However, the de- seven or nine schools in that category and there is partment started to make plans to have the build- no possibility of their all receiving the level of ings erected to house the students. funds that your school has received. I believe the process was bogged down because Mr Clarko: You are wrong there. actions were taken by the department to enter Mr WATT: The member is wrong in his as- into what was described as community partici- sertion that I am not concerned. pation in the decision making for not only the lo- Mr Pearce; I did not say you were not. cation of the school, but also its size and how it should be developed. Mr WATT: The member said I "ought to be" Inevitably, once members of the public are and that implies I am not. The Minister has given invited to participate in such a scheme, many ar- me the assurance that a certain number of jobs guments are put forward and people do not agree. will be completed this year and has given an as- Albany was no exception in that exercise. I would surance in respect of the following year. recommend to my colleagues if they have the Mr Wilson: How does he know? opportunity to do the same thing, not to go ahead Mr Clarko: Aren't you aware that in the last with it because it will only delay matters and one year of the Tonkin Government the same sorts of usually finishes up with whatever was required in things occurred? the first place anyway. Mr Parker: In a pre-election Budget you put in That was the background of the situation and as much stuff as you can. now we have the new North Albany High School The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! When I call which has been occupied for most of this year. At "Order" the member for Fremantle and the mem- a cost of $2.6 million it will be a fine school and it ber for Gosnells will keep order. is in the final stages of completion. It has had year eight classes in their first year, but will take Mr WATT: Some large projects are in progress extra years up to 1984 when it will accommodate in the Education Department at the Moment. One years eight to 10. example is the North Albany High School, which will cost S2.6 million. I am assured by the Minis- Following the commencement of that school ter that the refurbishment will go ahead and 1 ac- building, I endeavoured to persuade the Edu- cept his assutrance. cation Department that we should get on with the job of refurbishing the Albany Senior High One of his comments made the position quite School. The department made the point that it clear to me when he said that part of this whole would be inappropriate to start that project be- project involves the allocation of money for tem- cause we still had the problem of having only 100 porary accommodation at the school. The depart- students at the North Albany High School and, ment will provide transportable classrooms which with the increase in enrolments. the number of are of a good standard-almost as good as the students was still in the order of about 1 200 for permanent Iclassrooms. the year. The department felt it could not com- Mr Bryce: You have not spent much time in mence work until more students had been one. transferred to the new school. Mr Pearce: The modern transportables are We were told that some money was to be spent, good classrooms. but the actual amount was not indicated to us Mr Bryce: I want it made clear that I do not officially. One or two people conveyed the figure necessarily agree with the comment of the mem- to the school principal, but with these things ber for Gosnells. nothing is final until it appears in the Budget. Mr WATT: The department has given a clear Iwas disappointed when I noted that $20 000 indication that certain work will commence dur- only was allocated, but now that the matter has ing the Christmas holidays. It is Work which must been explained to me by the Minister and I have be done during the holiday period because it been told that a commitment has been made and involves demnolition of the old hall and a wooden stage one is to go ahead-and which includes the building which has beer, used as a commercial priorities that have been identified with the centre. The building was transferred to the site as school-with a sum of $450 000 to be spent in- a temporary building in approximately 1932. The itially, I am quite happy. provision of those extra classrooms is to be [Wednesday, 20 October 1982]107 4079

Ainancied separately, and not taken out of the al- road trains require a permit, they are restricted to location of $450 000. the use of the roads specified on the permit and In fact, that work will cost approximately they must comply with the conditions imposed. $120000. Therefore, the work that is to be under- One of those conditions for Albany Highway is a taken in this current project is not really $450 000 sped limit of 80 kilometres an hour. This speed but approximately $570 000. 1 do not know limitation must be imposed mechanically in order whether the member for Gosnells had any ad- that it is physically impossible for the road train vance information, but he indicated in Albany re- to exceed 85 kilometres an hour. The reason for cently that he would make sure that Albany the extra five kilometres an hour is that diesels would receive $600 000 in the Budget if he were operate at peak fuel efficiency at something a the Minister. Therefore, we have $570 000 and by little less than peak revolutions. Therefore it was spending it now, rather than waiting for him to decided to allow, theoretically a speed of 85 kilo- become a Minister-which may be a fairly long metres an hour because operators are cost con- time away-we will probably get more value for scious and they drive the diesels slightly below that money. peak revolutions. Because they operate under a permit, road train drivers are far more conscious Mr Pearce: It shows that there is accuracy in of what they could lose if they do not observe the my calculations. conditions of the permit and my belief is that they Mr WATT: I wish to record my appreciation conform to the speed limit. for the co-operation I have enjoyed from the Edu- A further restriction is they must not travel cation Department and the Government in recent closer than 200 metres apart. One of the problems years. Since I have been the member for Albany foreseen is the difficulty that motorists could have there has been a major upgrading of practically in passing them. every primary school in Albany. Most of them Mr Pearce: Is it true you have told people to have been provided with several new buildings exceed the speed limit while they are passing road and three of them have had library resource centres constructed. Other additions that have trains? taken place have involved dental therapy units, Mr WATT: The Great South News has ac- new classrooms, verandahs have been enclosed, knowledged that I was quoted incorrectly as say- and additional playgrounds have been provided. I ing that a person should pass a road train at 120 would be less than honest if I did not indicate that kilometres an hour. What I said was that they we have had an excellent run out of the Govern- should pass at 110 kilometres an hour. I made the ment as far as education is concerned. point that a motorist who is driving a vehicle at 110 kilometres per hour and who wishes to pass a I would like to comment on another matter road train which is travelling at 80 kilometres per which has been undertaken by this Government hour will take approximately four seconds mote and has been misunderstood by a number of than the time it takes to pass a semitrailer. I people. It concerns a decision the Government to submit that in 99 per cent of places on the road allow road trains to operate on the Albany High- where it would be safe to pass a semitrailer it way. The policy is that road trains should not be would be equally safe to pass a road train. Only allowed to operate in the metropolitan area and, an idiot would pass a semitrailer if he could not indeed, the Government has Provided a mar- see the road was clear some distance ahead. shalling yard near Bedfordale hill which is on the other side of Armadale. Although the Govern- Mr Pearce: One of the problems is that the ment made this decision in March or April of this road is narrow and you cannot even pass a car. year it has taken some time to implement it and Mr WATT: The member must have been read- the first road train ran today. I believe the ven- ing my notes. ture was successful. Mr Pearce: There is a logical reason. The concern that was expressed about road Mr WATT: I am the one with the logic, not the trains using Albany Highway was that it would be member for Gosnells. no longer a safe place for motorists to travel be- Mr Pearce: I must have it because I am antici- cause the road was not capable of handling road pating you. trains, and several other reasons were given. Road trains can operate in the State only under a per- Mr WATT: The member for Gosnells is raising mit. Semi-trailers, providing they conform with the matter but he is not raising the substance of the regulations required by the Traffic Act, are my argument. free to travel anywhere in the State and on any Some time ago the Leader of the Opposition public road-that is their right. However, because travelled to Albany by car; he was probably used 4080 4080[ASS EM BLYJ to the Mitchell Freeway and spoilt by the smooth cheaper and put them onto the export market at a surfaces and hot mix roads in the metropolitan lower price; so it becomes imperative for the abat- area because he was very critical of the condition toir in Albany to maintain employment of the of Albany Highway. By any standards the Albany people I am seeking to help. Highway is a first-class highway. That does not Obviously, if Borthwicks wins an order for a mean it is perfect. No road is perfect because they shipment of sheep to the Middle East, it will go to are constantly subjected to wear and tear. This its head office and say, "Okay, we have an order. Government, since it has been in power, has spent Where can we supply it at the best price?" There something in the order of $20 million on the is no love lost between the branches. They wil] sell Albany Highway and today it is vastly different where they can obtain the best price. from its condition in 1974. I have a responsibility to the people of Albany, I reject the assertion by the member for and I supported strongly the case for road trains Gosnells that there are very few places on the on Albany Highway to support those people. Albany Highway where it is safe to pass a road train. If that were true it would be equally true to A further problem has been associated with the say that there are very few places on which to road known as "Port Road", which is correctly pass a semitrailer. I reject that also because identified as Princess Royal Drive. It is the road literally hundreds of semi trailers are operating on that runs along the foreshore, and it is used by the Albany Highway each week. It would be right trucks taking stock from the abattoir. The prob- to say that sometimes a person would have to lem occurs because the road must be used by travel a kilometre or two before he could find a heavy vehicles, especially those carting fuel to and suitable place to pass one of these vehicles. There from the fuel depots. They must use a residential are one or two sections where it is even more street which the local council has wanted to up- difficult. grade for some years but, because of a long-term We have had assurances from the Minister for. plan to replace and upgrade the port road, it has Transport that there will be an ongoing upgrading not been able to do so. I have spoken to the Minis- policy which will include additional passing lanes. ter about this matter, and he has called for a re- Obviously the more difficult areas will be at- port from the Commissioner of Main Roads on tended to first. Recently the Minister announced the question. I urge the Minister to make every that two passing lanes would be constructed on effort to ensure that steps are taken to commit Bedfordale hill; any members who have driven up funds for this road, which are needed urgently. that hill will know what it is like to be travelling The Co-operative Bulk Handling Ltd. instal- behind a semi-trailer, a Sunday driver, or a car lation boundary has been redefined by the port pulling a caravan. It is nothing short of authority and the road now passes through the frustrating when one is caught behind them. CBH lease. The company is anxious to build new I am confident that the road train operation on buildings where the road now runs, which should Albany Highway will be a success. be rerouted around the new boundary of CBH. Mr Pearce: It would seem more sensible to ask The road is needed to take the heavy transport, to put in the slow-moving lanes, and then put the including the occasional road train carting stock slow vehicles on those lanes, rather than the other to Borthwicks. It is also needed to allow the fuel way. trucks, which are quite numerous, to go to the Mr WATT: I have not commented on it, but I various fuel depots. Big trucks are coming and should add there is a very good reason for wanting going all day. the road trains, and that is not because I like road In fairness to the residents of the road, they trains on Albany Highway. As we all know, the must now use Brunswick Road. The sooner the abattoir which operates in Albany-Thomas situation can be improved, the better, because the Borthwick & Sons-is under enormous pressure. residents experience constant vibration, which is It must close down seasonally during the winter most irritating for them. I know the Minister is period each year. One of the reasons for that is looking at the situation. I hope he can come up the availability of stock at a price which the with a satisfactory solution in that area. company can afford to pay, which will enable it to I want to mention briefly two other matters. sell on the export market. Members should recall Although I have not yet mentioned the matter to that Borthwicks does not compete only with other the Minister for Education, I wish to make a abattoirs in the State; it competes also with its couple of comments about the Albany Technical own abattoirs throughout Australia. The shipping College. Fairly recently, the Minister visited the costs do not vary much. For example, in Portland, college with me. Like me, he would have been Victoria, the company is able to buy sheep very proud of the college and the tremendous [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 409108 range of activities which it provides for the people a review undertaken at his direction, that the bus of Albany. At the moment, a new catering and services in all major towns will be standardised computing block is being built at a cost of $1.9 with the metropolitan area, so that all pensioners million. In a place like Albany, which is strongly will pay the same. They will pay two-thirds of the reliant on the tourist trade, such a facility is es- adult fare, rounded to the nearest 5c. sential. An increasing number of people are I am pleased that the pensioners in my elector- coming to Albany each year, and if we are to pro- ate who have not been able to participate in these vide the sort of services and standards that tour- sorts of concessions befre now will be able to. I ists now expect in the catering and accommo- am sure the Minister's decision will ease the dation business, this will be an important and top- financial burden onl them. Some of them have to grade facility. use the bus services quite regularly. A matter which has disturbed me is the de- cision, of which I have recently become aware, to Mr Pearce: Who is paying the subsidy? cancel the pre-apprenticeship class in carpentry and joinery next year. I consider that is an em- Mr WATT: The Government will pay the sub- ployment-stimulating course, which has been well sidy to the bus operators so they will not be out of supported every year of its existence. A number of pocket. people in the town have graduated from that pre- In many towns, the bus service has become a apprenticeship course. pretty marginal operation. Indeed, if most of the I have not yet had the opportunity of finding services were not supported by the very generous out why the course in Albany has been cancelled, school bus system which the Education Depart- but I express my considerable disappointment at ment operates, probably they would not be viable that fact. As I have said on other occasions, and could not be sustained. alternatives are available in the metropolitan I am rather hopeful that now the concessions area. If a student cannot do a particular course at have been introduced, many pensioners who own one technical college, he has a fairly good chance their own cars will reconsider the position and of going up the road a few miles and enrolling at say, "it is cheaper to travel by bus anyway" and another technical college. the Government subsidy will be a help to the local The fact that all the students of that pre-ap- bus company operators. prenticeship course in Albany have been em- Does this scheme extend to other ployed indicates that the course is needed. Even if Mr Hodge: the kids go out of town and obtain a job in Perth country towns? or another country town, we are all Western Aus- tralians. The young people of the district are en- Mr WATT: Yes. titled to have their training, preferably in their Mr O'Connor: It has operated previously. home town if possible. I ask the Minister to look at this situation for Mr Pearce: How does it work? me, to rind out why the course is being cancelled. I ask him to review it urgently in the interests of Mr WATT: The company would be required to the young people. As I said before, it is a job-cre- record the number of pensioners carried on each ating facility and that is one of the aspects that trip. It would be a fairly simple accounting pro- we should have uppermost in our minds in con- cedure and, at least in my opinion, a very worth- sidering what is best for the people. while one. I wish to thank the Minister for Transport for With those comments, I support the Bill. his recent decision relating to the local bus service. The pensioners in Albany have had to pay Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr I-odge. the full fare on the local bus service and it has been difficult for them -and for nmt to understand why pensioners in Perth can travel at heavily subsidised rates when the people in Albany BILILS (2): RETURNED cannot. 1.Cancer Council of Western Australia Act We realise, of course, that the metropolitan bus Repeal Bill. service is a Government bus service, and the Albany service is operated by a private bus 2. Dairy Industry Amendment Bill. company. However, I am pleased that the Minis- Bills returned from the Council without ter has now agreed, after considering the report of amendment. 4082 4082[ASSEMBLY]

LIQUOR AMENDMENT DILL (No. 3) SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE Receipt and First Reading Thursdays; Ministerial Statement

Bill received from the Council; and, on motion MR O'CONNOR (Mt. Lawley-Premier) by Mr P. V. Jones (Minister for Resources Devel- (12.13 a.m.J: I advise members it is the intention opment), read a first rime. that from but not including tomorrow night the House will sit after tea on Thursdays for the bal- ance of the session. Second Reading House adjourned at 12.14 a.m. (Thursday). MR P. V. JONES (Narrogin-Minister for Re- sources Development) [12.11 a.m.J: 1 move- That the Bill be now read a second time. The Australian Hotels Association recently ap- proached the Government concerning the declin- ing viability of retail liquor outlets. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE The Government is mindful of the effect of the 1708. This question was postponed. granting of additional licences on the livelihood of licence holders. The purpose of the Bill now before the House is to provide that the Licensing Court when con- sidering the grant of an hotel or tavern licence will be required to have regard to existing store li- ADVISORY COMMITTEES cences in the affected area. Membership At present when determining whether the hotel 1711. Mr BRYCE, to the Minister representing licences in an affected area are sufficient to meet the Attorney General, and Minister for Fed- the requirements of the public, the court must eral Affairs: take into account other hotels, taverns, and public accommodation facilities existing in the affected In respect of the following bodies- area. (a) Appeal Costs Board; (b) Committee of Inquiry into Future The Bill will add store licences to those prem- Organisation of Legal Profession; ises to be considered by the Licensing Court when (c) Law Reporting Advisory Board; dealing with applicants for new hotel licences. (d) Legal Aid Consultative Committee; When considering whether the granting of a (e) Legal Contribntion Trust, tavern licence is in the public interest or whether it will achieve greater efficiency and economy in (f) Stipendiary Magistrates' Examin- ation Board- the industry, the Licensing Court must take into account the number of existing hotel and tavern (i) Who are the people who com- licences in the affected area. prise the membership of such bodies;, The Bill will add store licences to those licensed (ii) what is the occupational back- premises which the court must take into account ground of each member; when considering the grant of a new tavern li- (iii) what is the term of appoint- cence. mrent to each body and when was each member appointed; It is believed that the measures taken in this (iv) on how many occasions did the Bill will be of benefit to the liquor industry as a bodies meet during the last whole. financial year: and (v) what is the amount and basis I commend the Bill to the House. of payment of financial allow- ances to members of each Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr Parker. body? [Wednesday, 20 October 19821 4083

Mr RUSHTON replied:

(a) Appeal Costs Board Appointed Expiry Meetings Feesand Allowane Mr SI. J. Murray Crown eounsel 20/4/92 4/4/85 4 Nil (Chrairman) MrI F. M, Robinson Legal practitioner 13/5/80 26/5/83 %11rH.A, Solomon Legal practitioner 15/9/82 14/9/85 (b) Committee of Inquiry into Future Organisation of Legal Proressice M r , D. Cla resort OC. Legal proctitioner No Fixed 9 plus term 6 Sub- $3000 P.O. corn- mittec Meetings M r K, H-. Parker, 0-C. Solicitor General 8/2/80 Nil. JudgeK. J. Hammond District ci judge 8/2/80 Nil. Mr 0. F. Dinon Retired parliuatentary 8/2/80 Ordinary Members commisstoner Mr 11,C. Stewart Retired Public 8/2/80 Pull Doy $72 accountant M r i. H. Cooper Retired Public Servant 8/2/80 Half Day S48 M rs S. A. PornalI Home duties. 8/2/80 Iw Mr R. D, Nicholson Legal practitioner 28/4/82 (c) Low Reporting Advisory Appointed Expiry Meetings Feetond Allowances Board Mr Justice Kennedy Supreme ctjudge 13/10/81 12/10/84 6 Nil, (Chairmn) Judge D. R, Anderson Family ct judge 13/10/81 12/10/84 Mr G P. Miller. Q.C. Barrister 13/10/81 12/10/84 M r 1.0D.Tenthy, QC. Barrister 13150/81 12/10/84 Mr P. A. Panegyme ULal. officer 13/10/81 12/10/84 Crown Law Dept Mr R. J. MI. Anderson Legal practitioner 9/12/81l 1/10/84 (d) Legal Aid Consultative Committee Mr W. J. Millar Deputy Director, 14/11/80 31/12/82 10 Full Day H-airDay Legal Aid Commission $ S Mr J. A. Rodgers Le4al practitionser I/I/SI 31/.12/82 Chairman 96 64 MrsJ. M. Daughtry Citizns Advice 1/6/82 31/y12/83 Other 72 48 Bureau Members M r A. A. Stout Countsellor. 1/6/82 31t/1218 3 huf limitations imposed where member it Family Court Government officer Mr W. S. Coucite Director, Anglicant 1/6/82 31/12/83 Health and Welrer (c) LecgalContribution Trust Services Appointed Expiry Muetings Mr W. J. Robinson Retired Public 21/3168 2 Feani llwne Servant Mir B. WV.Rowland. 0-C. Legal practitioner 8/6/77 ftermNo fixed MrR.IL Aitrslie.QO.C, Legal piractitioner 1/21 Nil (f) Stipendiary Magistrats'< Examination Board Mr Justice Wickhtam Supreme et judge 18/9/79 No fixed term M r K. H. Parker. 0.C. Solicitor General 18/9/79 Mr D. W. Chantler Senior lecturer in lose. 18/9/79 University of WA (,Fers determined by Public Service board)

PR ISONS Mr HASSELL replied: Daily Muster (a) to (d) The member's question is not clear as to whether he requires census 1727. Mr PARKER, to the Minister for Police figures for the dates specified or average and Prisons: musters for the financial years con- With respect to each of the Prisons De- cerned. partment institutions, what was the However, both census and daily average average daily muster as at- muster figures are published in depart- (a) 30 June 1980; mental annual reports which are tabled (b) 30 June 198 1; in this House. (c) 30 June 1982; Census figures as at 30 September 1982 (d) 30 September 1982? are attached. 4084 4084[ASSEMBLY]

CENSUS OF PRISONERS ON NIGHT OF 30 SEPTEMBER 1982 Prisons Male Male Female Female Total Non- Aboriginal Non- Aboriginal Aboriginal Aboriginal

Albany 38 20 - - 58 Bandyup - - 39 7 46 Barton's Mill 60 8 - - 68 Broome 10 41 1 52 Brunswick Junction - I - I Bunbury 46 19 -- 65 C. W. Campbell remand 80 14 -- 94 Canning Vale 121 67 -- 188 East Perth gaol I1I - - - ItI Eastern Goldfields 20 33 1 4 56 Highgate Annexe - - I Kalgoorlie Annexe 10 13 -- 23 Fremantle 266 93 -- 359 Geraldton 22 46 -2 70 Karnet 79 15 -- 94 Pardelup 25 5 -- 30 Roebourne 16 40 18 65 Wooroloo 74 23 -- 97 Wyndham 2 18 1 21 West Perth work release 25 2 -- 27

Public Hospitals 3 2 -- 5 Totals 908 458' 42 23 1431

1728. This question was post poned. The temporary freight rebate follows consultation between BHP, the Govern- RAILWAYS: FREIGHT ment and Wes trail on the best way- to Iron Ore tackle the immediate short term prob- 1729. Mr McPHARLIN, to the Minister for lem. The Government's decision was not Transport. taken lightly. As BHP Co. Ltd. has agreed, after Further information on the freight re- Government representation, to maintain bate arrangement would involve the Koolyanobbing iron ore mining oper- Westrail's commercial interests and ation on a reduced basis, what is the per- centage freight rebate offered by therefore cannot be made available. Westrail until 30 June 1983, in the interests of maintaining production at the mine? MINISTERS OF THE CROWN Mr RUSHTON replied: Responsibilites: Meetings with Organisations The decision to make rail freight rebates 1730. Mr BRIAN BURKE, to the Premier: available to BHP's Koolyanobbing iron ore operation until 30 June 1983 was (1) Further to my question 1590 of 1982 taken to prevent a total shut down of the concerning the issue of a circular to mine. Ministers, with which organisations have A shut dawn would have directly affec- each of the Ministers met? ted the jobs of many people employed at (2) Where were the meetings held in each Koolyanobbing mine, the Kwinana case? rolling mill and those Westrail people (3) Who attended representing the Govern- involved in the iron ore tranport oper- ment? ations. (4) Which public servants attended in each In addition all revenue from the rail case? freight haul would have been lost and it If so, what for? is in the best financial interests of (5) Westrail that the rail operation con- (6) Are any costs incurred?7 tinue. (7) If so, for what purpose? [Wednesday, 20 October 1982]108 4085

Mr O'CONNOR replied: Gardens Board, an amount is shown (1) to (7) 1 have previously advised that ".restaurant expenses" $30 000, will he Ministers have been arranging meetings detail the amount received for admission with representatives of organisations rel- charges to the Zoological Gardens for evant to their various portfolios for the the 1981-82 financial year? purpose discussing matters of mutual or (2) If not, why not? concern in an informal atmosphere. The meetings have usually been held in Ministers' offices and I understand been Mr LAURANCE replied; attended by some staff, although I am unaware of the names of the individuals (1) The sum of $444 330.30 was raised by concerned. admission charges during the last financial year 1981-82. Any costs incurred have been for the purpose of providing the minimum re- (2) See above. freshments demanded by courtesy, and have been kept as low as possible.

1731. This question was postponed.

ZOOLOGICAL GARDENS Great Cats: Appeal 1732. Mr BATEMAN, to the Minister for Lands: ADVISORY COMMITiTEES (1)Will he detail the exact amount of funds raised in aid of the great cats appeal? Members hip (2) Can an advertisement in the daily news- 1734. Mr BRYCE, to the Minister for Edu- papers or some other form of notifi- cation: cation be given to advise the public of the amount of money raised daily to en- courage all people to donate in a manner In respect of the following bodies- similar to Telethon and Appealathon? (3) If not, why not? (a) Western Australian Post Secondary Education Commission; Mr LAURANCE replied: (b) Public Education Endowment (1)The sum or $86 064.76 has been col- Trust- lected to date. In addition approximately $45 000 has been promised by way of donation of building materials. (i) Who are the people who com- prise the membership of such into account the amount of free (2) Taking bodies; publicity the zoo gets, paid daily adver- tisements to inform the public have not (ii) what is the occupational back- yet been considered. ground of each member; (3) See above. (iii) what is the term of appoint- ment to each body and when was each member appointed; ZOOLOGICAL GARDENS (iv) on how many occasions did the Admission Charges bodies meet during the last 1733. Mr BATEMAN, to the Minister for financial year; and Lands: (v) what is the amount and basis (1) With reference the estimates of of payment of financial allow- expenditure for the year ended 30 June ances to members of each 1982, item I division 76 Zoological body? 4086 4086[ASSEMBLY]

Mr CLARKO replied: (a) WESTERN AUSTRALIAN POST SECONDARY EDUCATION COMMISSION- (i) to (iii)

Members Occupational Background Current Term (as at 20/10/82.) of Office Started Finishes Dr W. A. Pullman Commission chairman (full-time member) 24/8/81 23/8/88 Mr D. C, Briggs Associate dean (finance), WACAF 1/3/81 28/2/85 Mr P. T. Carter Managing Director, M. S. Brooking Pty. 23/3/82 28/2/86 Ltd. Dr J. R. de Lacter Chairman, division of engineering and sci- 29/2/80 28/2/84 ence, WAIT Professor A. M. Kerr Deputy Vice-Chancellor, Murdoch Univer- 29/2/80 28/2/83 sity Mr L. E. McCarrey Under Treasurer 29/2/80 28/2/84 Dr D. Mossenson Retired Director-General of Education 29/2/80 28/2/83 Mr N. P. Rudeforth Principal, Carine Technical College 20/4/82 28/2/86 Mr B. R. Scott Education Liaison Officer, Cofifederation 1/3/8 1 28/2/85 of W.A. Industries Mrs P. M. Smeeton Grazier, Wongan Hills 23/3/82 28/2/86 Mr A. R. Tough Managing Director, Allied Eneabba Ltd. 26/7/82 28/2/85 Miss M. G. Vernon Private Secretary to WA Manager, Elder 14/5/80 28/2/83 Smith Goldsbrough Mort Ltd. (iv) The full commission met on 13 occasions in the 1981-82 financial year. (v) An allowance of $1 500 p.a. is payable to those who are not on the public (Commonwealth or State funded organisation) payroll, ixe., those who are either em- ployed in the private sector, retired or unemployed. (b) PUBLIC EDUCATION ENDOWMENT TRUST- (i) to (iii) Members Occupation Term of Appointment H-on. J. G. Cla rko Minister for Education Concurrent with term of office. Dr R. L. Vickery Director General of Edu- Concurrent with term of office. cation Mr I. K. Warner Lawyer. A senior partner in Appointment for 3 year term. the firm of Jackson Fi rst appointed July 19 75. McDonald & Co Mr R. W. Mickle Assistant Under Secretary Appointed for 3 year term. for Lands First appointed April 1979. Mr G. A. Cooper Licensed Valuer Appointed for 3 year term. First appointed September 1982. (iv) 5 meetings in the 198 1-82 financial year. (v) No allowance is paid.

STATE FINANCE in relation to the transfer to trust ac- Public Moneys: Investment counts and Government 1735. Mr 1. F. TAYLOR, to the Treasurer: instrumentalities or that part of the For both 1980-81 and 198 1-82, what funds earned through the invest mernt of were the amounts and accounts involved public moneys? [Wednesday, 20 October 1982]108 4087

Mr O'CONNOR replied: Distribution of short term investment earnings to participating accounts 1980-81 and 1981-82 Trust Accounts 1980-81 1981-82 $ S Coal mine worker pensi ons 114239 104796 Deposits-land applications (townsites development committee) - 271803 Fisheries research & development fund 162072 273 386 Legal aid fund - 8653 Parliamentary superannuation fund 129017 168816 Perth Theatre trust bookings 12089 28654 Public buildings insurance fund 255 578 395 499 Public trustee common fund 103012 115 177 Railway asset purchase fund 319 195 333 316 Sewerage development-Two Rocks 28048 43 126 Skeleton weed eradication 44095 81 965 Superannuation fund 877643 1 015947 Transport Commission employer liability 146557 296866 Transport Commission employer liability-resere A/c 51 003 99315

2242548 2993 319 Government Instrumentalities Albany Port Authority 52416 617928 Bunbury Port Authority 148 385 197 904 Commonwealth/State Housing Agreement 87 330 58 000 Esperance Port Authority 56 223 66921 Geralton Port Authority 82 565 145 965 Housing-Government Employees Housing Authority 71 942 61 352 Housing-home builders 690 247 1 125845 Housing-industrial and Commercial Employees Housing Authority 27 116 108 793 Industrial Lands Development Authority 351 234 701 099 Legal Aid Commission 19303 8 521 Metropolitan (Perth) Passenger Transport Trust 106 986 122 587 Metropolitan Region Planning Authority 275 123 127 787 Metropolitan Water Authority 4 635 682 9 125 144 Port Hedland Port Authority 147 190 237 385 Racecourse development 14 572 20 680 Rural Housing Authority 54 094 74 684 State Energy Commission 225 621 185 608 State Engineering Works 78491 136 408 State Housing Commission 942 629 2 093 704 WA Coastal Shipping Commission 174 598 101 668 WA Government Railways loans account 481 970 1 120067 WA Meat Commission-Midland division 5 287 6361 WA Meat Commission-Robbs Jetty division 97 632 39817 WA Overseas Projects Authority 6 306 WA Urban Land Council 1016406 1 556671 9849348 17490905

POLICE men outside the house who proceeded to force their way into the house and Not/ama in: Incident threaten and assault a number of the oc- 1736. Mr WILSON, to the Minister for Police cupants, including an invalid pensioner and Prisons: and her daughter? (3) As it appears that the resulting disturb- (1) Can he confirm that the police were ance spilled over onto the street verge called to a disturbance outside 5t Nar and the roadway and that the only per- Way, Nollamara, on the afternoon of 13 son apprehended was one of the occu- October 1982? pants of the house, who was seeking to (2) If "Yes", are the police aware that this defend himself and the other defenceless disturbance is alleged to have occurred occupants, why was no further action following the arrival of two carloads of taken? 4088 4088ASSEMBLY]

(4) Was any statement sought from the ten- (2) What were the guidelines governing el- ant/occupier of the house concerned re- igibility of applicants at the time of garding the cause of the incident? introduction and what was the total loan (5) Have the police agreed to follow up any available and the terms of the loan? subsequent formal complaint by the ten- (3) What changes have been made to the ant/occupier, and if not, why not? guidelines governing eligibility and when (6) Is it considered that this incident, which did any such changes come into oper- is apparently not an isolated one, is part ation? of an on-going feud between rival groups (4) How many applications under this of Aboriginals in the metropolitan area? scheme were received and approved up (7) What assurance can be offered to the to the time that the changes referred to occupants of the house concerned in this in (3) were introduced? incident and to neighbouring residents (5) How many applications have been 're- about police action to forestall further ceived and approved since that time? such incidents in this neighbourhood? Mr SHALDERS replied: Mr HASSELL replied: (1) The granny flat scheme was introduced (1) Yes. in February 1982. (2) No. The complaint was received from (2) The guidelines at the time of the occupants of 3 Narla introduction were- Way-"Aboriginals fighting in the INCOME ELIGIBILITY street". Home owners where the income of (3) Resulting from their behaviour, three persons were arrested. the breadwinner falls within the in- (4) No. The report was received as a dis- come criteria applicable to normal turbance in the street, and treated ac- commission activities (then $256 + cordingly. $5 for each child after the second, (5) Yes. After cessation of the disturbance, currently $269 + $5 for each child all remaining persons were advised that after the second) and who have the if they had any further complaints, they ability to service a loan. should attend the police station. Person(s) to be housed must also be A Maureen O'Reilly of 5 Narla Way eligible for the commission's pen- subsequently attended at Nollamnara sioner accommodation. Station and complained of her de facto - MAXIMUM LOA N-$1 5000 husband, Slater, being arrested, and of subject to 10 per cent deposit the presence of the Collards at her resi- dence. MAXIMUM TERM-20 years. No formal complaint was made of any (3) The changes in guidelines were direct threats of damage to her property. introduced in August 1982 and are- She was informed that patrols would be increased in the area, and if further INCOME ELIGIBILITY trouble occurred, to contact police im- Home owners where the income of mediately. the breadwinner does not exceed (6) Yes. There have been previous instances $300 per week and who have the of disturbances between these families. ability to service a loan. Person(s) (7) Police make frequent patrols of this par- to be housed as previously except ticular area, and attend promptly and as that the asset bar $3 000 applicable required. to single pensioners not to apply. (4) Two received-one approved, one being HOUSING processed. Two received-both being processed. Granny Flats (5) The number of applications does not 1737. Mr WILSON, to the Minister for Hous- reflect the interest as numerous inquiries ing: have been answered and a number of ap- (1) When did the Government's "granny plication forms sent out to interested flat" scheme come into operation? people most of whom appear eligible. [Wednesday, 20 October 1982J108 4089

HOUSING: HOME BUYERS'ASSISTANCE Mrs CRAIG replied: FUND Planning for the Northern Perimeter Eligibility Highway is the responsibility of the MRPA and I have forwarded the re- 1738. Mr WILSON, to the Minister rep- quest to the authority for response to the resenting the Chief Secretary: member direct, (1) Can he confirm that home buyers who obtain their loans through credit unions AGED PERSONS or other non-bank or non-building so- Senior Citizen Centres ciety financial institutions are precluded from obtaining assistance under the 1740. Mr WILSON, to the Minister for Health: Government's home buyer's assistance (1) Can he confirm that under the joint scheme? administration of the funding of senior (2) If "Yes", why are such borrowers pre- citizen centres by his department and cluded from assistance under this the Commonwealth Department of scheme? Social Security, a suggested constitution is provided as a guide to the establish- (3) (a) Does the Government intend to ment of management committees? amend the Act or the regulations to (2) If 'Yes", can he also confirm that this allow borrowers from sources other constitution incorporates the principle than banks and building societies to that any elderly person who wishes to become eligible for assistance under use such a centre is entitled to do so the homebuyers' assistance scheme; irrespective of whether Or not he is a and ratepayer of the local government area (b) if so, when will such changes be where a centre is located? introduced? (3) In view of the fact that it appears some Mr HASSELL replied: elderly people are being excluded from (1) Yes. full participation in such centres in a (2) The Act at present provides that the as- number of local government authority sistance scheme only applies to home areas, with the knowledge and collabor- loans from banks and building societies. ation of these authorities, will he ensure that all local government authorities are (3) (a) and (b) This matter has already reminded of the principle referred to in been brought to the attention of the (2)? Chief Secretary, including an am- proach by the member, and the Mr YOUNG replied: Chief Secretary is presently in con- (1) Yes. sultation with the real estate and (2) Senior citizen centres are established for business agents supervisory board. the prime purpose of providing a range No changes can be made until such of recreational and welfare activities for time as the Minister has concluded the aged in a particular area; however, his considerations. use of centres is not restricted to rate- payers. (3) If the member is aware of any particular cases of hardship as a result of this pol- TOWN PLANNING icy, I will be pleased to have them Noranda investigated, 1739. Mr WILSON, to the Minister for Urban Development and Town Planning: ABORIGINES Fringe Dwellers Will she ensure that further consider- ation is given to the possible re-align- 1741. Mr WILSON, to the Minister for Health: ment of the proposed north perimeter (1) Is he aware of the potentially critical highway north of Noranda in the light threat to the health of Aboriginal fringe of the view put by the Public Health dwellers living at the Saunders Street Commissioner agreeing with the re- and Lockridge camps due to an outbreak alignment on the basis that an improved of Shigella and other gastrointestinal buffer zone would result? diseases? 4090 4090ASSEMBLY)

(2) Is he also aware that there is no regular HOUSING rubbish removal from these two camps? Inspectors: Number (3) What action, if any, is his department taking to ensure that effective preventive 1743. Mr WILSON, to the Minister for Hous- measures are taken to protect the health ing: of inhabitants at these camps? (1) Has there been an increase in the Mr YOUNG replied: number of inspectors employed by the (1) I am aware of the situation at Saunders State Housing Commission to conduct Street and Lockridge camps. There has interviews with applicants during the been no medical notifications to me or to past two financial years? the Public Health Department of a (2) If "Yes", what has been the increase in serious outbreak of Shigella or other these staff members employed at each of gastrointestinal disease. the regional offices in the metropolitan (2) Yes. area? (3) The situation has been investigated by (3) If "No" to (1), what effect has there Public Health Department doctors, been on the waiting time for an health surveyors, and nurses, and by the interview as a result of the rapid in- health surveyor from the local health crease in the number of applicants dur- authority. Water has been tested and ing the past two years? tests taken from certain residents. Mr SHALDERS replied: ANIMALS: DOG ACT (I) Yes, there has been an increase of one Amendment housing officer involved in applicant and tenancy examinations in a country town. 1742. Mr WILSON, to the Minister for Local (2) There has been no increase in staff Government: numbers in the metropolitan region. Who are the appointees to the com- (3) There is no appreciable increase in the mittee examining possible amendments waiting times for interviews but the mat- to the Dog Act representing the follow- ter is kept under review. ing bodies- (a) the Local Government Association; (b) Country Shire Councils' Associ- 1744. This question was postponed. ation; (c) Australian Veterinary Association; (d) Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals; HOUSING: ABORIGINES (e) Institute of Municipal Adminis- Social Security Payments: Deductions tration; 1745. Mr WILSON, to the Minister for Hous- (f) The Canine Association; (g) Government departments; ing: (h) any other organisation? Referring to his answer to question l1645 Mrs CRAIG replied: of l982 relating to a rental warrantee scheme- (a) Councillor C. E. Barns; (b) Mayor I. K. Blackburn; (a) when did the scheme begin oper- (c) Dr T. W. Eidwards; ation; (d) Mr W. V. Carter; (b) why has recommendation 4 not yet (e) Mr M. G. Sargant; been implemented; (f) Mr R. D. Arnold; (c) is it to be implemented and, if so, (g) Mr F. Cavanough (Local Govern- when? ment Department) Mr C. D. Gooding (Agriculture Mr SHALDERS replied: Protection Board) (a) 2 August 1982; Sgt B. M. Bartin (Police Depart- (b) and (c) it is not intended to consider the ment); implementation of recommendation 4 (h) No other organisation is rep- until after the completion of the trial resented on the committee. period. [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 494091

SHC Aboriginal ToonI HOUSING Housing Lone Mothers 1970-71 1971-72 1746. Mr WILSON, to the Minister for Hous- 1972-73 ing: 1973-74 (1) Can he confirm that the largest group of 1974-75 applicants seeking urgent assistance 1975-76 3 3 from the State Housing Commission arc 1976-77 6 6 12 lone mothers? 1977-78 8 8 (2) If "Yes", what is the proportion of ap- 1978-79 5 plicants requiring urgent assistance that 1979-80 4 - 4 is represented by women with children? 1980-81 - 2 2 (3) What is the total number of inspectors employed by the State Housing Com- 198 1-82 '4 14 mission for interviewing applicants? 32 16 48 (4) How many of these inspectors are fe- (2) The commission's building programme males? at Collie for 1982-83 is- (5) In view of the increasing proportion of State Housing Commission 4 women applicants for State Housing Commission accommodation, what at- Aboriginal housing 3 tempts have been made to increase the FUEL AND ENERGY: ELECTRICITY number of female inspectors employed? (6) What attempts are made to ensure that Power Station: Kwina na women applying for State Housing 1749. Mr T. H. JONES, to the Minister for Commission accommodation from Fuel arid Energy: women's refuges as a result of enforced What was the homelessness due to situations of dom- inal cost of the conver- estic violence, are interviewed by female sion of all units at the Kwinana power inspectors? station from oil to coal? Mr P. V. JONES replied: Mr SHALDERS replied: The conversion of stage "C" at Kwinana (1) to (6) The information sought will take power station cost $32 million, and the some time to collate and therefore I will conversion of stage I plant was esti- reply to the question by letter. mated at $40 million in May 1980 and, on present indications, will be completed in mid-1983 at a cost, including 1747. This question was postponed, escalation, of $48 million. The cost of conversion of stage "C" has been more than recovered already in the form of HOUSING savings in the purchase of high priced oil Collie fuel that would otherwise have been re- quired, and it is anticipated that the cost 1748, Mr T. H. JONES, to the Minister for of conversion of the stage I plant will be Housing: recovered substantially in a similar way (1) Will he advise the commission's building during the next year or so. programme at Collie for years 1970 to 1982 inclusive? HOUSING (2) What is the commission's building pro- Fencing gramme at Collie for I983? 1750. Mr GORDON HILL, to the Minister for Mr SHALDERS replied: Housing: (I) The number of rental dwellings built at (1) Will he ensure that, as indicated to me Collie during the financial years 1970- in correspondence from the State Hous- 7t to t98I-82 for the State Housing ing Commission on t2 July 1982, a Commission and Aboriginal housing fence is replaced at 30 Ferguson Street, are- Midland, as soon as possible? 4092 4092[ASSEMBLY]

(2) Why has there been such delay in fit- Mr SHALDERS replied: nalising this matter, as it was first raised (1) and (2) The State Housing Commission over 12 months ago? has had a long standing policy concern- Mr SHALDERS replied: ing an applicant requiring second assist- ance where there is an outstanding debt (I) Yes. from the previous tenancy. (2) The replacement of the fence involves an Broadly the policy requires the applicant adjoining owner and under the Dividing to clear the outstanding debt before the Fences Act there are formalities to be application will be accepted. However met. The adjoining owner disputes the the commission does take into consider- necessity for the replacement of the ation the particular circumstances of the fence. It is regretted that the member applicant and is willing to negotiate an was not informed of this technicality in acceptable arrangement. the correspondence. In cases of an applicant with known bad paying habits the commission may re- EDUCATION: HIGH SCHOOL quire the applicant to demonstrate good High Wycombe intent by meeting regular payments over a period before further assistance is 1751. Mr GORDON HILL, to the Minister for forthcoming. Education: (1) When will a new high school be con- structed in High Wycombe? ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE (2) What is the exact location of the pro- Lessee posed new high school? 1753. Mr DAVIES, to the Premier: Mr CLARKO replied: (1) Who are the current lessees of the Perth (1) No definite timetable has been set for Entertainment Centre? the establishment of a high school in High Wycombe. Increases in secondary (2) Will he table a copy of the lease agree- school enrolments and residential devel- ment? opments in the general High Wycombe (3) If not, why not? area will continue to be monitored by (4) For what purpose will the $175 000 the Education Department on a regular voted in the current CRF Estimates be basis. used? (2) The proposed site is to the west of the Roe Freeway on the block bounded by Mr O'CONNOR replied: Combellack Way and Kookaburra Cres- cent. (1) TVW Enterprises Ltd. (2) and (3) The company is currently lessee HOUSING of the centre on a monthly tenancy basis under the terms of the original lease, the Debts five-year term of which expired on 30 1752. Mr WILSON, to the Minister for Hous- June. 1981. The terms of a renewed lease ing: for a further five years have been agreed between the Government and TVW En- (1) Does State Housing Commission policy terprises Ltd. but documentation is still require an applicant to clear one-third of in process. I am happy to provide the an outstanding debt and agree to an ar- member with information as to the rangemenit to pay the remainder in reg- terms of the new lease when formalities ular instalments. before being considered are completed but I would be reluctant for re-housing? to table the lease document as the (2) (a) If this is no longer the commission's company may not wish full details of the policy, when was a change lease document to be available to its instituted; and business competitors. (b) what is the present policy applying (4) For maintenance of the building which in such cases? is the responsibility of the owner. (Wednesday, 20 October 1982]109 4093

CHIROPODISTS ACT (4) In view of the fact that there is a short- Amendment age of registered general nurses, part icu- 1754. Mr HODGE, the Minister for Health: larly in country hospitals, will he con- (I) Is he aware that agreement was reached sider taking steps to improve the accessi- in August 1981 between the Public bility of enrolled nurses from country Health Department and the WA areas to post basic training courses? Branch of the Australian Chiropody As- sociation on the need to amend the Mr YOUNG replied: Chiropodists Act and the type of amend- (1) Hospitals. ments required? (2) Has he advised the WA Branch of the (2) There is a waiting list for acceptance Australian Chiropody Association either into the Western Australian School of directly or indirectly through another Nursing post basic orthopaedic course. member that the amend- For this reason, advertising is considered Government unnecessary at present. The school en- ments mentioned above cannot be courages enrolled nurses to develop introduced in this session of Parliament heavy nursing skills to full potential and, where because of the Government's possible, to undertake further education legislative programme? and training to the level of general regis- (3) Does the Government intend introducing tered nurse. amendments- (a) to the Chiropodists Act this session; (3) (a) Yes. (b) if not, why not? The Western Australian School of Nursing offers a post basic ortho- Mr YOUNG replied: paedic course for enrolled nurses. (1) and (2) Yes. Princess Margaret Hospital offers a (3) (a) No; post basic paediatrics course for en- (b) The Government did not give the rolled nurses. Bill priority and, due to the heavy (b) The more populous States offer a legislative drafting programme of wider range of courses for which the Parliamentary Counsel, a suit- there are insufficient job able draft Bill cannot be completed opportunities currently in Western in the short time remaining in this Australia. session. (4) This matter is under consideration at HEALTH: NURSES present. Western Australian School of Nursing 1755. Mr HODGE, to the Minister for Health: (1) In reply to question 1523 of 29 H4EALTH: NURSING POSTS September 1982, he refers to a lack of Hospital Insurance demand for post basic training courses for enrolled nurses. Is he referring to a 1756. Mr HODGE, to the Minister for Health: lack of demand from enrolled nurses or from hospitals? (I) Is it a fact that the Federal Minister for (2) Does the Western Australian School of Health (Mr 3. Carlton) has rejected the Nursing ever advertise the post basic approach to him on the question of the training courses they have available for recognition of nursing posts as hospitals enrolled nurses or take other action to for the purpose of enabling patients to encourage enrolled nurses to seek ad- claim refunds under hospital insurance? ditional education and training? (2) Why was his suggestion rejected by Mr (3) (a) Will he provide details of the range Carlton? of post basic training courses that (3) What is the Western Australian Govern- are available in Western Australia ment now proposing to do to ensure that for enrolled nurses: people treated at nursing posts are not (b) is it a fact that most other States left in a position where they cannot have a much more comprehensive claim a refund, no Matter what level of range of courses available for en- medical or hospital insurance they take rolled nurses? out? 4094 4094[ASSEMBLY]

(4) Is he aware of any reason that nursing PUBLIC TRUSTEE posts cannot be classified as hospitals'for Fees the purposes of the Health Insurance Act, as they were prior to September 1758. Mr HODGE, to the Minister representing 1981 ? the Attorney General: Can the Attorney General indicate if Mr YOUNG replied: and when I may expect a reply to the (I) Yes. letter I wrote to him on 14 May 1982 (2) Nursing posts do not meet the require- concerning the possibility of making ments for approval as hospitals under some changes to the scale of fees the Health Insurance Act. charged by the Public Trustee for pro- cessing a deceased person's estate? (3) There is nothing further the Western Australian Government can do as basic Mr RUSHTON replied: hospital benefit tables of health The delay in response is regretted. How- insurance organisations are controlled ever, it was not possible to accede to the by the Commonwealth Minister for member's request without amendment to Health. A direct approach has been the present legislation. made to the Commonwealth Minister on There are a number of matters, includ- behalf of Western Australians who live ing that raised by the member, at pres- in remote areas serviced only by nursing ent under consideration in connection posts. with the Public Trustee Act, Inquiries (4) Prior to Septemiber 1981, no charges have not yet been completed and the were raised for outpatient services at matter raised by the member will be public hospitals or nursing posts, so the dealt with as soon as possible. question did not arise 1759 and 1760. These questions were postponed.

HEALTH: PUBLIC HEALTH DEPARTMENT PRISON: PRISONERS Dr 3. G. Tees Frenmantle: Publications 1757. Mr HODGE, to the Minister for Health: 1761. Mr PARKER, to the Minister for Police and Prisons: (1) Further to question 1623 of 1982, can he (1) Are prisoners at Fremantle Prison al- advise what rate of salary was applicable lowed to receive copies of- to the position occupied by Dr J. G. Tees (a) Prisoners Rights; at the time of his dismissal in August (b) Jail News; 1980? (c) Alternative Criminology Journal? (2) Will he provide details of how the sum (c), why of nearly $43 000, which apparently was (2) If no to any of (1) (a), (b) or paid to Dr Tees, was arrived at? not? (3) In view of the fact that Dr Tees' dis- (3) (a) Is a distinction made between prisoners of different classifications missal was found to be unjustified by the Public Service Appeal Board, is the or status as to the publications they Government prepared to consider are allowed to receive; and offering him compensation or an ex (b) if so, what are those distinctions? gratia payment? (4) (a) Are distinctions made as to which publications are allowed into which Mr YOUNG replied: prisons; and (b) if so, what are those distinctions? (1)Medical officer level 4-$40 504 per annum. Mr HASSELL replied: (2) The sum paid represented salary and (1) (a) to (c) Yes. Subject to censorship of annual leave entitlement for the period individual issues as governed by the 15 August, 1980 to the date of his resig- Prisons Act. Providing the articles nation, i.e. 30 November, 1981. are- (3) No. (i) purchased by the recreation officer over the counter, or [Wednesday, 20 October 1982]109 4095

(ii) by direct subscription to a (3) Valuation fees payable to Valuer Gen- publisher. eral's Office, a fee not previously (2) Answered by (1) charged. (3) (a) and (b) No. All prisoners are increased costs for public exhibitions as treated in a like manner as part of the authority's wish to expand its governed by the Prisons Act, regu- role in this area- lations and director's rules. Increased legal costs associated with ap- (4) (a) and (b) No. All publications and in- pealIs. dividual issues are subject to censorship at each prison. PRISONS: PRISONERS Visiting Rights 1762. This question was postponed. 1764. Mr PARKER, to the Minister for Police and Prisons: TOWN PLANNING: MRPA Are ex-prisoners denied the right to visit Administration serving prisoners, and if so. for what 1763. Mr PARKER, to the Minister for Urban purpose and on what conditions? Development and Town Planning: Mr HASSELL replied: (1) With regard to the financial statement, Subject to the provisions of part VI of the Estimates, and the Metropolitan the Prisons Act 1981, the prisons regu- Region Planning Authority, what has lations 1982, and rules made pursuant to been the amount spent by the MRPA on section 35 of the said Act, prisoners are "Administration" in each of the years- permitted to receive visits from friends (a) 1977-78; and relations, including ex-prisoners. (b) 1978-79; Persons other than friends and relations (c) 1979-80; who desire to visit a prisoner for a bona (d) 1980-81; fide purpose may be permitted to do so. (e) 1981-82? All visits are supervised, and any visitor (2) What is the estimate for 1982 and of may be searched. If the superintendent what does this item comprise? is of the opinion that a visitor is likely to (3) What are the reasons for the increase? interfere with the preservation of the Mrs CRAIG replied: good order or security of the prison he may refuse him entry or order his re- (1) The amounts spent by the MRPA under moval1. "Incidentals" in each of the following years includes administrative costs, legal Ex-prisoners are subject to the same costs and members' fees and expenses. conditions with regard to visits as are other visitors except that there is a re- (a) 1977-1978-$158 262 quirement that in the case of an ex-pris- (b) 1978-1979-S182 078 oner who has been released during the (c) 1979-1980-$275 138 six-month period immediately preceding (d) 1980-1981-$241 786 the date of the visit the superintendent (e) 1981-1982-$224 869. must be notified. (2) The estimate for 1982-83 is $550 000 and comprises- 1765 to 1767. These questions were postponed.

Chairman's salary and 80000 WATER RESOURCES members' fees Advertisement of amend- 25 000 Kendenup ments 1768. Mr PARKER, to the Minister for Works Legal expenses and legal 145 000 and Water Resources: acquisition costs (1)With respect to the allocation in the Printing annual report 18000 General Loan Fund Budget of 5360 000 Computer costs 30000 to commence the extension of the Lower Administrative expenses 52 000 Great Southern water supply to the Public exhibitions 100 000 Kendenup townsite, when is it antici- Valuation fees-Valuer 100000 pated that work on this extension will be General's Office commenced? 4096 4096[ASSEMBLY]

(2) What stage will the project reach in the Mr OLD replied: 1982483 financial year? (1) 1970-80 18982000 (3) When will the project be completed? 1980-8 1 19562000 (4) In current dollar values, how much will 1981-82 18561 000 need to be allocated in the 1983-84 Financial year for work on the project? (2) (a) Nine; (b) Golden Poultry Farming Mr MENSAROS replied: Industries Pty. Ltd. (1) Pipe laying commenced on 19 October Osborne Park Poultry Pty. Ltd. 1982. Festive Foods Ltd. (2) The pipeline to Kendenup, together with McCains Poultry a standpipe from which residents can Mr A. Masters cart water, is scheduled for completion Mr W. Clare by the end of January 1983. Baldivis Poultry Processors (3) The remaining work in the project that Mr J. S. Turnbull is, the reticulation of Kendenup, Mandurah Poultry Processors. including a service tank-is scheduled (c) Precise figures are not available but for completion in the 1983-84 financial it is believed that the two major year. companies share about 90 per cent (4) 5180 000 is the current estimate. of production. (3) 42. STATE FORESTS Dr P. A ttiwill POULTRY 1769. Mr EVANS, to the Minister for Conser- Industry: Advisory Committee vation and the Environment: 1771. Mr EVANS, to the Minister for (1) Has Dr P. Attiwill completed his report Agriculture: on the Western Australian karri forest? (2) If "Yes", will he make a copy available (1) Is there a committee which advises on to the Opposition? and controls thc chicken meat industry? (3) If "No" to (1), when is this report ex- (2) If so- pected to be available? (a) what is the precise name of this Mr LAURANCE replied: committee; (1) Yes. (b) who are the members of this com- (2) Dr Attiwill's report will be released with mittee; the EPA's report when the Government (c) who does each of these members has received and considered it. represent; (3) Answered by (2). (d) what are the duties and responsibilities of this committee? POULTRY Mr OLD replied: Broiler Chickens (1) Yes. 1770. Mr EVANS, to the Minister for (2) (a) Chicken Meat Industry Committee. Agriculture: (b) and (c) (1) How many broiler chickens were pro- P. SMetana-chairman, Premier's duced for processing in Western Aus- Department tralia in each of the past three years? L Brajkovich-growcr representa- tive (2) (a) How many firms process broiler D. Cain-processor representative chickens in Western Australia; P. Jeffrey-grower representative (b) what is the name of each of these K. Hampton-processor represen- firms; tative (c) what percentage of the WA broiler D. Giles.-rower representative market does each of these firriis W. Mahoney-processor represen- cater for? tative. (3) How many producers raise broiler (d) The functions of the committee chickens for processing in WA? are- [Wednesday, 20 October 1982J Q9709

(i) to determine the standard (6) Does the land have frontage to Kathleen price to be paid by processors Street in accordance with local govern- to growers for broiler chickens; ment and town planning requirements? (ii) to determine disputes between (7) Does the development in all ways com- growers and processors as to ply with local government by-laws and their respective rights, benefits town planning requirements? or obligations under broiler Mrs CRAIG replied; growing agreements; (1) Yet. (iii) to lay down criteria for de- termining whether a grower is (2) (a) Development appeal against City of an "efficient grower" for the Stirling's refusal to grant planning purposes of determining his en- approval to proposed development titlements under an agreement of 20 residential units. The city with a processor; invited the applicant to apply for 16 (iv) to maintain records in respect units on the site. of premises on which broiler (b) Appeal upheld in part and 18 resi- chickens are grown including dential units approved. records as to the ownership, lo- (3) The proposal did not show entry onto cation, and effective capacity Wan neroo Road. of those premises; (4) No. (v) to report to the Minister on (5) The site is distant from existing sewer- any matter relating to the age facilities and the City or Stirling is chicken meat industry referred satisfied that the land is suitable for on- to it by the Minister or on any site effluent disposal. matter on which it considers it (6) and (7) Yes. should report to the Minister; (vi) to make recommendations and INDUSTRIAL AGREEMENT submit proposals to the Minis- Four-day Week ter from time to time with re- spect to regulations to be made 1773. Mr DAVIES, to the Premier: under the Chicken Meat In- (1) Hlas the Government received ex- dustry Act; pressions of concern that firms working (vii) to give advice to the Minister a four-day week may be doing so il- from time to time, or whenever legally? requested to do so by the Min- (2) Is he aware that this may be the case ister, as to the future pro- despite agreement between em- ductiont requirement of the ployees unions, and employers? chicken meat industry, includ- (3) If such is the case, does his Government ing advice as to the need for propose to take any action to legitimise the establishment of new pro- the situation? cssing plants. Mr O'CONNOR replied: TOWN PLANNING (1) No, but there has been some media coverage indicating that some firms may Home Unit Development: Yokine be working a four-day week. 1772. Mr DAVIES, to the Minister for Urban (2) and (3) The legal position would depend Development and Town Planning: on the circumstances of each case. If (1) Did she receive an appeal regarding de- there was a case, remedial action would velopment of home units in Kathleen rest in the bands of the parties through Street, Yokine? the appropriate industrial tribunal. (2) What was- TOWN PLANNING (a) the nature of the appeal; Deputy Commissioner (b) the outcome? 1774. Mr DAVIES, to the Minister for Urban (3) Who made the decision that entry Development and Town Planning:. should be from Kathleen Street, not (1) Referring to question 1672 of 1982 re- Wanneroo Road? garding senior administration in the (4) Are the units to be deep sewered? Town Planning Department, what ad- (5) If not, why not? vantage is likely to accrue as a result of

91293 4098 4098[ASSEMBLY)

creating an assistant town planning Mr O'CONNOR replied: commissioner (finance and (1)and (2) administration) and abolishing the pos- Clasifications Deparmnt ition of administrative officer? (a) Executive officer A-1-4 Office sf Regional Admrinistration (2) What other staff changes have been and the North West. made as a result of this change? (b) senior research ofrcer A-I-IlI (c) Adsisarat ire assistant C-l1.5 Mrs CRAIG replied: (d) Researchofce C-11S - C-il-2/3 teI Graduate assiasstt (1) The position of assistant town planning nI Graduate assistant C-11-2/J commissioner (finance and III) Research officcr G-11-4 (h) Research offi.er P-8 - administration) has been created at a g) Clerk cdIv (j) Resarc.h officer C-11-2/3 - sufficiently senior level to- (k) Graduate assistant C-11-2/ 3 (1) Clerk C-IV - ensure the efficient management (in) Research officer C-115-2/3 and co-ordination of all adminis- (nu) Regional administrator A-- Io Typist C-v - trative functions in the department, tp,) Regina.. fIcer C-I11-5/6 Department or In- dustrial. Commter- together with the operational activi- chal and Regional Development. ties of both the Town Planning (q) Clerical assistant c-vt Office or Regional Board and the Metropolitan Region Admininrimn snd the North Planning Authority; west. ensure that maximum efficiency and economy of operations in the EDUCATION: HIGH SCHOOL administrative and financial field Morley: Library are implemented through the use of 1776. Mr WILSON, to the Minister for Edu- modern technology and systems. cation: (2) Abolish item 34 1000 secretary C-1l-9 (1) What plans are in hand for the resto- (salary $26 755-$27 479) and replace ration of the library at the Morley it with item 34 1001, secretary MRPA Senior High School following damage A- I-I (salary $31 752). by fire? Abolish item 340440 clerk C-11-3/4 (2) When will work begin on restoration of (salary $18 086-$19 963) and replace the library and when is it expected that it with item 34 0436-secretary Town the building will again be ready for use? Planning Board (salary $23 290-$24 659). (3) (a) Will such work incorporate measures previously under consider- Amend the title and classification of ation for air cooling of the building; item 340065 from senior clerk (salary and $20 603-$21 246) to assistant adminis- (b) if so, what will these measures en- trative officer C-1l-7 (salary tail? $23 290-S24 659). Amend the title and classification of Mr CLARKO replied: item 34 1010 from clerk (salary (1) and (2) Work on the restoration of the $19 319-S519 963) to assistant sec- library is well advanced and is expected retary, MRPA C-11-6 (salary to be completed by the end of next week. $21 924-S22 612). It is anticipated that the library will be available for use early next month. (3) (a) and (b) No. INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT: DEPARTMENT QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Merging of Departments INDUSTRIAL ARBITRATION AMEND- MENT BILL (No. 2) 1775. Mr DAVIES, to the Premier: Reconsideration (1) Referring to question 1657 of 1928, will 633. Mr BRIAN BURKE, to the Premier: he please list the departments where the (1) Is it true the Perth Chamber of Com- 17 officers referred to were located? merce (Inc.) and some sectors of the (2) What were the classifications in each in- Master Builders Association of Western stance? Australia have had a significant shift in [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 409949

opinion in respect of the positions they Mr OLD replied: adopted previously relating to the (I) and (2) Yes. Government's amendments to the Indus- (3) 1 intend trial Arbitration Act? replying through The Bulletin in an endeavour to clarify the situation, (2) Does the Premier concede that perhaps the Government is not fully aware of the and will be consulting with the Minister implications of the Bill? for Lands on the matter. (3) Would the Premier undertake to review present plans to proceed with this RAILWAYS: BUNBURY change to the law before the end of this session? Marshalling Yards and Terminal 635. Mr BRYCE, to the Minister for Transport: Mr O'CONNOR replied: In the light of undertakings by his pre- (1) No, I have no such knowledge. As a decessors to achieve within 10 years the matter of fact, only today I was given in- relocation of the marshalling yards and formation to the effect that they sup- rail terminals in Bunbury, will the Min- ported what the Government had put ister indicate what stage the Govern- forward. I suggest the Leader of the Op- ment's planning has reached in this re- position check back with his sources. spect? Mr Brian Burke: From which one did you re- Mr RUSHTON replied: ceive that information? I have had a number of meet ings with officials representing the City of Mr O'CONNOR: From both those organis- Bunbury. At the last meeting, they re- ations, today. I did not speak directly alised they had not extended their pro- with them, but the information I had jections far enough and undertook to was to that effect. carry out a cost-benefit analysis of the (2) No. Perhaps the Opposition should re- proposal. Currently, we are awaiting consider its view of the matter, particu- their reply. The Government has done larly in the light of its stated support for quite a bit of estimating and planning on the principle of freedom of choice, as this matter. I also indicate that the enunciated by its leader in another member for Bunbury has been most ac- place. If that is the policy of the Oppo- tive in this area in ensuring constant sition, and as the International Labour representations relating to the proposed Organisation also supports freedom of moves which the City of Bunbury re- choice, surely its members should sup- quested some time ago. port that part of the legislation. Mr Blaikie: Has he kept on the ball? (3) No. Mr RUSHTON: He has been very much on the ball. The proposed mroves will be very costly, and it is important to know exactly where the City of Bunbury GRAIN: HARVEST stands on the matter. New Farmers Mr Bryce-. Then you are going ahead with it, 634. Mr GREWAR, to the Minister for are you? Agriculture: Mr RUSH-TON: We are evaluating the pro- (1) Has the Minister read the article headed posal on the basis of what can be done. "Predictions of grim harvest for new However, first, we had to have the re- farmers" contained in The Bulletin of 19 gional planning approvals for the area October? concerned so that it was known exactly (2) Are the statements and alleged facts which routes the railway and the major presented, distorted and erroneous? roads would take. The current position is (3) As the article does a disservice to my that the Government is waiting for the constituents, and to others, could the City of Bunbury to ascertain the cost Minister have a reply prepared by his benefits of the proposed development, department outlining the true position and to come back to the Government and sent to The Bulletin ? with its proposition. 4100 1 OU[ASSEMBLY]

LOCUSTS MEMBER OP PARLIAMENT: THE HON. A. A. LEWIS Spraying 636. Mr STEPHENS, to the Minister for Comments Agriculture: 637. Mr TONKIN, to the Premier: In view of the serious nature of locust (1) Has he read the comments attributed to hatchings in the State, particularly in A. A. Lewis in the Legislative Council the southern area where they have not in which he states that all conservation been known to breed previously, will the Ministers in Western Australia have Government cover the cost of spray ap- been a disgrace? plication, as these costs could be con- (2) Does he concur with M r Lewis' opinion? siderable, particularly if aircraft are (3) Does he share Mr Lewis' concern that needed? In asking the question I ac- the National Parks Authority has not re- knowledge that spray is being made ceived an adequate Budget allocation? available free of charge, but feel that ef- (4) With which recommendations of the fective control of locusts is of benefit to Legislative Council Select Committee the whole community, and not only to into national parks does his Government the owner of the property on which the agree? hatchings are taking place. Mr O'CONNOR replied: Mr OLD replied: (I) No. I have great sympathy for the people in (2) 1 do not agree, because I happen to have the electorate of the member for Stirling been one of them and we are doing all we can to help Mr Tonkin: I think that was the point he was them. Of course, locusts are not breed- making. ing only in the southern part of the Mr O'CONNOR: To continue- State, where they have not bred pre- in all parts of (3) and (4) The Select Committee brought viously; they are prolific down a large number of recommen- the State, from Lake Grace, south. The dations and I would not be prepared to Government has made a special effort to state offhand with which ones the combat the problem by providing Government agreed until I have perused $500 000-a quite unprecedented them. move-in this year's Budget in an en- deavour to eradicate the locusts or at least bring their number down to man- MINING: DIAMONDS ageable levels. We would very much like Ash ton Joint Venture: Work Force to be able to pay for the application of 638. Mr COURT, to the Minister for Resources the spray, but I am afraid it will be Development: necessary for the farmers in the Stirling electorate to undertake the same re- Has approval been granted by the sponsibility as have farmers in other Government to the Ashton Joint Ven- electorates, who have agreed to meet the ture allowing transport of the Argyle cost of application. diamond mine work force from Perth, as indicated in this morning's The West Mr Davies: Does this apply also to wingless Australian? grasshoppers? Mr P. V. JONES replied: Mr OLD: No No. Clause 25 of the agreement Act Mr Stephens: I realise the problem is not provides that the joint venturers must confined to the electorate of Stirling, but submit proposals for accommodation is being experienced all over the State. which include all on-site accommodation Mr OLD: I do appreciate the problem. How- as well as expansion of an adjacent ever, if the Government undertook to town. None of those proposals yet has meet the cost of spraying, obviously it been received by the Government and, would reduce the amount of spray we despite the assertion in this morning's could provide from the Budget allo- Press, nio such approvals have been cation which, members will agree, is given. more than generous. Mr Bryce: It was an inspired leak. [Wednesday, 20 October 1982] 410110

Mr P. V. JONES: I understand that, House what action the Government has yesterday, a group of journalists was taken in its Budget to enhance the briefed on this matter and the three viability of small business operations options which had been the subject of within the State? studies-commuting, work force mostly in Kununurra, or the establishment of a (2) Would he detail current activities of new town-were discussed and can- Small Business Advisory Service Ltd.? vassed. The joint venturers advised that in the short term they would be seeking some expansion at Kununurra, some on- Mr MacKINNON replied: site Construction of single units, and (1) and (2) The Government always has some commuting. Whatever the basis of been vitally concerned for the future of this morning's article, I repeat that the small businesses in Western Australia, company has not submitted its proposals and will continue to monitor the situ- to the Government and, therefore, no ation. Steps have been taken in the approvals have been given. Certainly, no Budget to assist this area, and I mention approvals will be given untit after the only a few: Firstly, the payroll tax matter has been 'discussed with the exemption level has been increased by Wyndhamn-East Kimberley Shire Coun- 22.5 per cent, unlike the situation in the cil. States of Victoria and New South Wales where an increase to six per cent has ENTERTAIN MENT CENTRE been imposed; additional housing funds Lessees have been pr-vided; and we are increas- 639. Mr DAVIES, to the Premier: ing our marketing activities in the My question relates to question on no- labour-intensive area of tourism in an tice 1753 to which the Premier replied endeavour to increase tourist activity iii today. I ask- this State. ()Would I be right in presuming the In addition, this year's Budget provides lease was arranged between the for an increase of 33 1/3 per cent over Premier's office and TVW last year's allocation to Small Business Enterprises Ltd. direct? Advisory Service Ltd. I point out that (2) If so, why was it arranged in that last year's allocation represented a 40 way and not handled by the Perth per cent increase on the previous year's Theatre Trust, for which type of figure, giving a clear indication of the work that body was especially es- Government's concern in this area. tablished? Mr O'CONNOR replied: With respect to the Small Business Ad- visory Service Ltd. itself, its activities (1) and (2) 1 am unable to provide the de- are currently concentrated in three main tails without checking into the matter. areas, one of which concerns an initiat- However, my understanding is that the ive in the country. One of the provisions lease was arranged direct between the in the Budget will enable anyone in WA Treasury and TVW Enterprises Ltd. to telephone the service toll free rather Mr Davies: Why? than having to reverse the charges. Mr O'CONNOR: The arrangements were When the service is instituted, people made before my time as Premier. In interested in making inquiries will be order that I might clarify my answer, I able to telephone from anywhere in WA undertake to provide the member with for the cost of a local call. the details he requires. Secondly, we will be continuing the "starter" workshops. These are seminars SMALL BUSINESSES for people wanting to go into business Viability for the first time. The workshops will be 640. Mr HERZFELD, to the Minister for In- extended to country areas. Such sem- dustrial, Commercial and Regional Develop- inars have been held very successfully in ment: Albany and Geraldton -in conjunction (1) In view of the current economic situ- with local business organisations and we ation, would the Minister advise the will be looking to expand these. 4102 4102(ASSEMBLY]

Finally, we will be extending the WINGLESS GRASSHOPPERS business seminars for existing business Biological Control people, both in the city and the country. Importantly, the next of these is in the 642. Mr GREWAR, to the Minister for Primary Midland area, as the member for Industry: Mundaring is probably aware. Unfortu- In view of the serious damage that wing- nately I have to advise him that the re- less grasshoppers cause to dry pasture sponse to that seminar has been disap- residues, lucerne, summer fodder crops, pointing. That is surprising, bearing in cereal crops, and farmers' tree plantings, mind the level of concern we have had could he advise- from business people there, for instance, in regard to shop leases. Just this week a (1) if there is any intention to restruct group of soine 20-odd business people funding of the biological control re- from Mt. Lawley requested such a ser- search programme currently being vice be made available, and it was. carried out by Mr J. Moulden of the Department of Agriculture?

(2) Could he detail the progress of the research programme to date?

WATER RESOURCES (3) What funding has been set aside for Aga ton the current year? 641. Mr PARKER, to the Minister for Water Resources: Mr OLD replied:

(1) Will the Minister advise the current (1) to (3) The research programme on state of progress on the Agaton water Noscma loeustae, a protozoal pathogen scheme? which infects the digestive tract of the wingless grasshopper, was commenced in (2) Will the Minister advise whether there 1979 with the assistance of a rural has been any response from the Com- credits development bank grant of monwealth to the proposals suggesting a $20 000. The project has since been farmer contribution to the scheme and, funded by the Department of if so, what it is? Agriculture. (3) Will the Minister advise the current role The early years of the project involved of the former Premier (Sir Charles the development of techniques for the Court) in the development of the scheme multiplication of infective spore ma- or in negotiations between the parties, terial. Most of the problems associated including the Commonwealth? with spore production have now been solved and this research programme will Mr MENSAROS replied: be scaled down. (1) to (3) A scheme, based to some extent Until recently only limited quantities of on farmer contribution, has been de- spore material have been available for vised. Meetings have been held with rep- field release. Three small-scale releases resentatives of various local authorities of up to six hectares have demonstrated in the wheatbelt. Subsequently, I have the potential of the organism to cause participated at meetings with the Minis- infection, and larger trials are planned ter for Primary Industry, Sir Charles for the coming season to assess the im- Court, and the people who were pact of pathogen on the density of field delegated at the original meeting to par- populations. ticipate, and various detailed Treasury submissions and calculations have been The production of the spore material on shown. Decisions have been made in a small scale is labour intensive, but principle about options. The approach to enough material has now been produced the Commonwealth was left to the Min- to treat about 700 hectares in the ister for Primary Industry who would be Gingin, Margaret River, and Esperance able to give information about that. districts. The Shire of Gingin and con- [Wednesday, 20 October 1982J 410310

cerrted farmers in that area have gener- EDUCATION: HIGH SCHOOLS ously agreed to contribute $10000 Albany and Bunbury towards the field testing programme. 644. Mr PEARCE, The effectiveness of the field baiting to the Minister for Edu- programme will be monitored and, if cation: successful, an attempt will be made to (1) What promises have been made with re- encourage commercial interests to gard to funding next year for the Albany undertake the production and distri- Senior High School and the Bunbury bution of Nosema spore material. Senior High School, both of which are Large-scale production is beyond the re- to receive $20 000 under this year's sources and responsibilities of the De- capital works programme? partment of Agriculture. (2) Is it a fact that the Education Depart- ment is letting tenders, or it intends to let tenders, and sign contracts for capital HOSPITALS works to be undertaken in the year Staff Levels 1983-84 before the 1983-84 financial year begins, or before the Budget for 643. Mr HODGE, to the Premier: that financial year is presented to the Parliament? Last evening, during the Budget speech of the Leader of the Opposition, the Mr O'Connor: That is normal. Minister for Health stated, by way of interjection, that he estimated that staff Mr CLARKO replied: levels in Government hospitals would be (1) and (2) Let m& refer to the situation in reduced by approximately 100 as a re- regard to the Albiany Senior 'High sult of the Budget. Does the Premier School to which the member referred agree that estimate was a conservative last night. It has been agreed that an one and that the real number of jobs in upgrading programme will take place Government hospitals destroyed by the and it has been estimated that this will Budget would be two or three times cost approximately $450 000. The paper higher than that Figure? work is in the course of preparation and it has been determined that $20 000 of that 5450 000 actually will be expended in this current financial year. Of course, the project will continue into the next Mr O'CONNOR replied: year and it will be completed in due course. That is expected to cost In order that I might give an accurate $450 000. A number of schools are in reply, I suggest the member should place this category, including the Bunbury the question on notice. I noticed last Senior High School. To the best of my night that the Leader of the Opposition knowledge this is common practice and commented that the increase in the vote it has happened not only in relation to six per for health was approximately the budget of the Education Department Cent. but also in regard to the budget of other Government departments for many years. Mr Brian Burke: In the hospital fund.

GRAIN: HARVEST Mr O'CONNOR: The increase for health is New Farmers 14 per cent, as any member who looked at the Budget papers would know. I 645. Mr GREWAR, to the Minister for Lands: want to make sure members are aware (I) Has the Minister read the article that there has been a substantial in- "Predictions of Grim Harvest for New crease in this field-it is approximately Farmers" in The Bulletin of 19 $61t million, or 14 per cent. October? 4104 4104[ASSEMBLY]

(2) Are the statements and facts presented Mr O'CON NOR replied: distorted and erroneous? I certainly could not say off the cuff that (3) As the article does disservice to my con- I would agree to that. I would want to stituents and others, could he have a reply prepared by his department look at the costs involved, and the poss- outlining the true position and sent to ible abuse of the system. However, if the The Bulletin member would like to give me a note in connection with the matter, I will pursue it further. Mr LAURANCE replied: (1) to (3) Like my colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, I have seen the article and, yes, I believe it is a distortion of the TECHNOLOGY PARK facts. Its whole tenor suggests that land Land releases over past years have been a fail- -647. Mr BRYCE, to the Minister for Industrial, could be further ure whereas nothing Commercial and Regional Development: from the truth. That has been demonstrated particularly (1) Will he confirm how many acres of land this year. near the Western Australian Institute of Technology will be used for the tech- Mr Hodge: Has the Minister for Health seen nology park? the article? (2) Does the Government intend to lease or Mr LAURANCE: The areas that were con- sell freehold the land involved in the sidered marginal a number of years ago park? are enjoying a fantastic year; and that is (3) When does the Government intend to es- tablish an interim technology park helping this State to provide something board? like 60 per cent of the nation's grain out- put this year because of the decrease in Mr MacKINNON replied: the Eastern States. The article has no that has been (1) The exact size of the land to be allocated regard for the framework is yet to be determined. We have asked well established to ensure that land re- the Urban Lands Council to design and sources are used to the maximum net submit a proposal for us to examine. public benefit relative to their conser- Whatever proposal is made will be flex- vation or economic value; nor does the ible to the extent that the development article have regard for the wishes of a can be staged-in other words, if it is a substantial proportion of the community success, we could use more or that land; if it is not a success, we could isolate the to see released for farm development the part that was developed originally, and lands that could realistically be brought the balance could be used for domestic into production. purposes. Mr Bryce: If you allow Treasury to carve it up and Treasury gets its way, you will PARLIAMENT HOUSE not be able to. Telephones: Toll-free Mr MacKINNON: I do not think the Depu- ty Leader of the Opposition heard me 646. Mr TERRY BURKE. to the Premier: correctly. The land adjacent to WATT is to be used partly for domestic purposes Would he investigate the possibility of and partly for a technology park. That extending toll-free telephone access to was made clear in the original an- Parliament House for the people resid- niouncement. Unlike the Opposition, we ing outside the metropolitan telephone do not want to burn all our bridges be- region? hind us. We like to think that we are re- sponsible in our approach to the tech- Opposition members: Hear, hear! nology park concept. [Wednesday, 20 October 1982J110 4105

Mr Brian Burke: Like Bunbury Foods! EDUCATION Mr MacKINNON: While we believe that Capital Works the park will be a raging success, we 648. Mr PEARCE, to the Minister for Edut- have to bear in mind that it may not be cation: one. If it is not, we need to ensure that the taxpayers' funds are protected to the As the second part to the question I maximum extent; and the proposal will asked previously, is it the policy of the do just that. I envisage that in the first Education Department to let tenders stage we would have approximately 10 and sign contracts for capital works in hectares set aside exclusively for the the following financial year before that technology park, with the potential for financial year begins, or before the Esti- further land to be made available at a mates are prepared for the Parliament? later date. This will have to be deter- mined, because we have not seen the Mr CLARKO replied: Final plans. As the member knows, in regard to the (2) As I envisage it, business will have the question of buildings, there is a division option of doing either. of responsibility between the Education (3) We will be appointing a board-it will Department and the Public Works De- not be an interim board-as soon as we partment. I would assume-and I could have the final design plan available. check with my colleague-that certain Once we are assured that the land will contracts could be done in that way. To be rezoned-it must be rezoned from come to what I presume to be the nub of domestic purposes to special uses-we the question, I indicate I am informed will consider the appointment of a board to supervise the development. Of course, it is quite normal, to have pro- the board will appoint an executive jects which move from one year to officer actually to run the park and to the other involving the expenditure of promote the concept of the technology money out of the following year's park. Budget.