THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY OF THE NEW YORK COURTS ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM Hon. Judith S. Kaye Former Chief Judge of the State of New York Part I: Childhood and Education Part II: Law School and Firm Life Part III: Court of Appeals Years & Part IV: Court of Appeals Years Continued Chief Judge of the State of New York: Administering the Court System Life After The Court Years Found on exterior entrance to New York Court of Appeals KAYE THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY OF THE NEW YORK COURTS 140 Grand Street, Suite 701 White Plains, New York 10601 914.824.5717 [email protected] www.nycourts.gov/history ORAL HISTORY Subject: Hon. Judith S. Kaye Former Chief Judge of the State of New York An Interview Conducted by: Anne C. Reddy and Hon. Robert M. Mandelbaum Dates of Interview: September 26, 28, 2011; October 19, 20, 2011 Location of interview: Skadden Arps Slate Meagher & Flom LLP 4 Times Square, New York, New York 10036 Copyright © 2012 The Historical Society of the New York Courts KAYE In 2005, The Historical Society of the New York Courts (the Society) established an oral history program to document the recollections of retired Judges of the New York State Court of Appeals (New York’s highest court), retired judges and justices from other courts in the State, and prominent New York lawyers (Subjects). Starting in 2009, all interviews were videotaped. Interviews prior to that time were either audio or video taped. Interviews wereconducted by informed interviewers, familiar with both the Subject and New York jurisprudence (Interviewers). The transcripts of the record are reviewed by Subjects and Interviewers for clarity and accuracy, corrected, and deposited in the Society’s archives. An oral history transcript is not intended to present the complete, verified description of events. It is rather a spoken personal account by a Subject given in response to questions. It is intended to transmit the Subject’s thoughts, perceptions, and reflections. It is unique and irreplaceable. All uses of this transcript are covered by a signed agreement between Subject, Interviewers, and the Society. The information is thereby made available for purposes deemed suitable by the Society, including research and education. All copyrights and literary rights in the transcript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Society. No part of the transcript may be quoted for publication without the written permission of the Society. Requests for permission should be emailed to the Society at [email protected] or mailed to the Society at the address appearing on page one. The request should identify (i) the user, (ii) the intended use of the materials, and (iii) the passages to be quoted. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as “An Oral History of Hon. Judith S. Kaye, conducted on September 26, 28, 2011 and October 19, 20, 2011 by Anne C. Reddy and Hon. Robert M. Mandelbaum, at Skadden Arps Slate Meagher & Flom LLP by The Historical Society of the New York Courts.” KAYE FROM FARM, TO FIRM, TO LAWYER HEAVEN: THE STORY OF NEW YORK’S FIRST FEMALE CHIEF JUDGE Acknowledgements ii Introduction iv Chapter 1. Childhood through College 1 Chapter 2. From Law School to Law Practice 28 A. Law School 31 B. Forays into Law Firms 41 C. The Hunt Goes On: Just Hanging In 58 D. The Olwine Years 65 Chapter 3. My Life in Lawyer Heaven 72 A. Arrival in a New World 72 B. Getting Down to Business 92 C. Confronting Our State Constitution and Press Issues 106 D. Family Law Issues 114 E. Assorted Other Writings 124 Chapter 4. The Transition to Chief 129 Chapter 5. My Judicial Role 144 Chapter 6. My CEO Role 182 A. An Unforgettable Introduction 182 B. Jury Reform 185 C. Problem-Solving Courts 199 D. The Commercial Division 208 E. Family Reforms, etc. 211 F. And Everything Under the Sun 215 G. September 11, 2001 217 Chapter 7. Courthouse Renovations and Other Innovations 225 Chapter 8. Judicial Salaries: A Punch in the Gut 246 Chapter 9. The After-Life 253 i KAYE From Farm, to Firm, to Lawyer Heaven: The Story of New York’s First Female Chief Judge Acknowledgements Having now celebrated my 25th anniversary as a Judge of New York State’s high court (the Court of Appeals), my 50th as a member of the Bar, and my 75th as a female, I have begun thinking it presumptuous to wait another quarter-century to tell my life story. The catalyst for this writing was my Oral History, conducted by two former Law Clerks, Anne Reddy and (now-Judge) Robert Mandelbaum, under the auspices of the Historical Society of the Courts of the State of New York. Frankly, I had from time to time toyed with the idea of writing my life story, and learned about the process for getting it published (if even possible, other than privately). I would, for example, first need to formulate a full book proposal—with an attention-grabbing introduction—and then hopefully a publisher would direct me to a person who would hear my stories and help shape a compelling manuscript. Indeed, I started down that pathway and, with the assistance of Nan Gatwood Satter, produced part of the Introduction that follows. But having studied the Oral History transcript handed to me for proofreading, I cannot imagine doing a better job of telling my story than Anne and Robert evoked, and that discovery for me became determinative. Thanks as well to Marilyn Marcus, the Society’s Executive Director (who patiently sat through it all), to her Assistant, Michael Benowitz, to videographer Nick Ullo; to the Clerk of the Court of Appeals Andy Klein, and to the State Reporter Bill Hooks (who furnished ii KAYE the footnotes). Some of the delays along the way—this was, after all, recorded in September and October 2011—are significant, and I have supplemented the transcript a bit. What accounts for the delay? For a time, parts of the video had gone astray, but fortunately were found. Also, during my post-Chief Judge years I was diagnosed with stage-four lung cancer (never having been a smoker) and for a substantial period endured loss of voice and hair, unsuccessful surgery, chemotherapy and other treatment, which I have tried to keep private. With life at the Skadden firm filling my day, I had little taste for adding active pursuit of my biography. Daunting new scans, along with the discovery of the lost video, seemed a signal to me to dust off the transcript and get going. I am grateful to the court system, particularly Chief Judge Jonathan Lippman, for allowing me to amplify and use my Oral History in this fashion, hopefully to help raise public awareness about our justice system in general, and the great Court of Appeals in particular, and by my story encourage women—and nonwomen—to dream large and hang in. You can do it! You can do it! I am supplementing my Oral History with an Introduction and a final chapter on “After-Life.” No acknowledgement would be complete without expressing thanks to my fantastic, loving family—my children and grandchildren, and my professional family. iii KAYE Introduction Very early one cold and snowy morning in December of 1992 at Court of Appeals Hall in Albany, New York, I picked up the phone to hear Warren Christopher, soon to be sworn in as newly-elected Bill Clinton’s Secretary of State, on the other end of the line: “Judge Kaye, the President-elect would like to see you in Little Rock tomorrow. Just call back and give us your arrival time. We’ll have someone at the airport to meet you.” Click. There it was. The call about possible nomination to the position of United States Attorney General, a call that I had been sort of expecting, sort of not expecting, having out-of- the-blue one day appeared on the front page of the New York Times as one of the four finalists for the position. I had been serving on the Court of Appeals, New York State’s highest court, for almost a decade, and for me it was truly a dream job. I spent two weeks out of every five at Court of Appeals Hall in Albany, hearing cases that involved novel law issues of broad significance, and three weeks of every five in home chambers (for me, New York City) studying upcoming cases, reviewing motions for leave to appeal, and drafting decisions on cases already heard. Working with my six Court of Appeals colleagues and our remarkable staff was an honor and a pleasure beyond description. As my staff began filtering into my chambers that December morning, I shared the news of the call, as well as my reluctance to go. I had never thought of myself as Attorney General, and besides, our hard-working court was in an uncharacteristic state of turmoil. Just one month earlier, on Saturday, November 7, we had been shocked by the arrest of Chief Judge Sol iv KAYE Wachtler, our beloved court leader, on criminal charges. As implausible as it may sound, none of us had seen this coming. Now New York’s Court of Appeals needed a new Chief Judge, and I was one of the candidates under consideration. No, I decided, most definitely I would not go to Little Rock, despite my staff’s importuning. My law clerk Joe Matalon even insisted that it was “unpatriotic” for me not to go. The matter was quickly resolved: when I tried to get Warren Christopher on the phone to tell him I wasn’t coming, I was told that he made calls in the early morning, but would not take calls until late afternoon.