THE SECOND MEETING OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT WEDNESDAY 10 FEBRUARY 2021

ENGLISH VERSION HANSARD NO: 201 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon. Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP. DEPUTY SPEAKER The Hon. Mabuse M. Pule, MP. (Mochudi East)

Clerk of the National Assembly - Ms B. N. Dithapo Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe Learned Parliamentary Counsel - Ms M. Mokgosi Assistant Clerk (E) - Mr R. Josiah CABINET His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP. - President

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP. (Boteti West) - Vice President Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Hon. K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP. (Molepolole South) - Administration

Hon. K. T. Mmusi, MP. (Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon. Dr L. Kwape, MP. (Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon. E. M. Molale, MP. (Goodhope-Mabule ) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon. K. S. Gare, MP. (Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation Hon. P. K. Kereng, MP. (Specially Elected) - and Tourism Hon. Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP. (Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon. T.M. Segokgo, MP. (Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon. K. Mzwinila, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. T. M. Rakgare, MP. (Mogoditshane) - Development

Hon. A. M. Mokgethi, MP. (Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon. Dr T. Matsheka, MP. (Lobatse) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon. F. M. M. Molao, MP. (Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Hon. Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP. (Tati East) - Technology Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Hon. L. M. Moagi, MP. (Ramotswa) - Energy Security

Hon. P. O. Serame, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Hon. M. Balopi, MP. (Gaborone North) - Development

Hon. M. Kgafela, MP. (Mochudi West) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development

Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Hon. D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP. (Gaborone South) - Public Administration Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. K. K. Autlwetse, MP. (Specially Elected) - Development Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. S. N. Modukanele, MP. (Lerala -Maunatlala) - Development Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Hon. B. Manake, MP. (Specially Elected) - Security

Hon. S. Lelatisitswe, MP. (Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness

Hon. N. W. T. Makwinja, MP. (Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education

Hon. M. S. Molebatsi, MP. (Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. H. B. Billy, MP. (Francistown East) - Development Hon. M. R. Shamukuni, MP. (Chobe) - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES

Names Constituency

RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon. L. Kablay, MP. (Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe Hon. Dr U. Dow, MP. Specially Elected Hon. P. Majaga, MP. Nata-Gweta Hon. J. S. Brooks, MP. Kgalagadi South Hon. C. Greeff, MP. Gaborone Bonnington South Hon. T. Letsholo, MP. Kanye North Hon. T. F. Leuwe, MP. Takatokwane Hon. T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP. Gaborone Central Hon. S. N. Moabi, MP. Tati West Hon. T. Monnakgotla, MP. Kgalagadi North Hon. P. K. Motaosane, MP. Thamaga-Kumakwane Hon. O. Regoeng, MP. Molepolole North Hon. J. L. Thiite, MP. Ghanzi North Hon. P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP. Tonota Hon. A. Lesaso, MP. Shoshong OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon. D. Saleshando, MP. (Leader of the Opposition) Maun West Hon. M. G. J. Motsamai, MP. (Opposition Whip) Ghanzi South Hon. D. L. Keorapetse, MP. Selebi Phikwe West Hon. Y. Boko, MP. Mahalapye East Hon. Dr K. Gobotswang, MP. Sefhare-Ramokgonami Hon. C. K. Hikuama, MP. Ngami Hon. K. K. Kapinga, MP Okavango Hon. G. Kekgonegile, MP. Maun East Hon. T. B. Lucas, MP. Bobonong Hon. K. Nkawana, MP. Selebi Phikwe East Hon. O. Ramogapi, MP. Palapye Hon. Dr N. Tshabang, MP. Nkange Hon. D. Tshere, MP. Mahalapye West Hon. M. I. Moswaane, MP. Francistown West (Botswana Patriotic Front) Hon. T. S. Khama, MP. Serowe West Hon. L. Lesedi, MP. Serowe South Hon. B. Mathoothe, MP. Serowe North Hon. M. Reatile, MP. Jwaneng-Mabutsane (Alliance for Progressives) Hon. W. B. Mmolotsi, MP. Francistown South TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT WEDNESDAY 10 FEBRUARY, 2021

CONTENTS PAGE (S)

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER...... 1-9

Appropriation (2021/2022) Bill, 2021 (No. 2 of 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)...... 10-40

iv Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

Wednesday 10th February, 2021 (ii) Mr Speaker,

THE ASSEMBLY met at 2:00 p.m. (a) The Mmathethe-Bray/Hereford road has been included in National Development Plans (NDP) 11 (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) during the Mid-Term Review as part of the Economic P R A Y E R S Recovery and Transformation Programme (ERTP). However, the section between Hereford and Werda * * * * has not been included. Preparation of a Project Memorandum for design is ongoing. Floating of QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER tenders to source design consultants is planned for CONSTRUCTION OF ROADS IN KGALAGADI May 2021. SOUTH (b) Motopi-Makalamabedi: the road has been included MR S. J. BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): asked in NDP 11 during the Mid-Term Review as part of the Minister of Transport and Communications to state: the ERTP and preparation of Invitation to Tender (ITTs) is ongoing. Floating of tenders to source (i) when the ministry will reconstruct the Tsabong- design consultants is planned for March 2021. Kokotsha road since it is in a bad state; (c) There are no plans to construct the Tsabong-Maleshe (ii) when construction of the following roads will road during the current development plan. The 7 km commence; access road to Maleshe from Tsabong-Makopong- Kokotsha road (A20) can only be considered for (a) Mmathethe - Werda via Hereford; upgrading to bitumen standard under the 10 km Policy on Access Roads when the A20 Tsabong- (b) Motopi - Makalamabedi; and Makopong-Kokotsha road is reconstructed or (c) Tsabong - Maleshe. rehabilitated. Thank you Mr Speaker.

MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND MR BROOKS: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. Thank you Minister and good afternoon. Minister, please COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): Thank tell us about the 32 kilometre road between Makopong you Mr Speaker good afternoon. and Werda; when was its construction started and how (i) Mr Speaker, my ministry has no plans to much time was earmarked for it? When do you expect the contractor to have completed this maintenance and reconstruct Tsabong-Kokotsha road during the resealing? current development plan. The road is indeed in a poor state as it has exceeded its design life and Secondly Minister, are you aware that the road between this has been compounded by an increase in traffic Tsabong and Omaweneno is so bad? It is not that it has volumes on this road. potholes but it is a road which was built in 1988, by the then Roads Department. As we speak, it is not suitable My ministry continues to undertake periodic and routine for use, neither should it be resealed. It just needs to be maintenance of this road through resealing as well as reconstructed from scratch Mr Speaker. pothole patching of badly affected sections. Mr Minister, the Tsabong-Maleshe road has been like A 30 kilometre (km) between Draihoek and Omaweneno that for centuries, even now you are failing to make a was resealed in 2017. Currently, a citizen contractor plan for it because when we apply the 10 kilometres has been engaged for the reseal and road marking of a policy which was considered at that time, it is still going 30 km section between Makopong and Werda. Funds to disadvantage…(Inaudible)…which tells me that permitting, my ministry will consider undertaking for the next 20 years or so, Maleshe is not going to be periodic maintenance of the sections between having an access road which feeds it, with the plan to Omaweneno and Tsabong and Werda to Kokotsha in build a tarred road Mr Speaker. Are we really doing the the 2021/2022 financial year. This include resealing and right thing for the people of this constituency sir? strengthening of pavement layers. It is expected that these interventions will greatly improve the condition HONOURABLE MEMBER: There is no Member of and the riding quality of this road. Parliament there.

Hansard No 201 1 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are talking… he is aware that the award of tenders to lowest bidders (Inaudible)… in the security sector compromises quality of service and breeds continuous conflict between employee and MR SEGOKGO: Thank you Honourable. I must make employer; and to further clarify: an admission that I do not have dates for commencement of works on the Makopong-Werda section and I do (i) if the ministry has any intentions of engaging apologise for that. I will make sure that I make those Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Board available to you and soonest. (PPADB) to change the assessment criteria on the security sector; Indeed, as you said honourable, with respect to the status of the road, we are quite aware that it is in a bad state but (ii) if the current assessment criteria makes it I want to say this, it would not be correct for me to just compulsory for bidders to be considerate of simply comment and say that the section of roads that possible minimum wage increments over the you are speaking about does need reconstruction. We contract years; and will base it on a proper assessment to see which sections do need reconstruction. (iii) if the current assessment criteria makes it compulsory for bidders to include relief guards I note what you said about Maleshe, but I must just package and severance pay benefits in their bids. reiterate that consideration of that road will be under the Access Policy. My hope is that it will not in fact, MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC take the 20 years you indicate or allude to; much as I do DEVELOPMENT (DR MATSHEKA): Mr Speaker, not have a time frame to give you at this point in time. allow me at the onset to indicate that I am not aware Thank you. that awarding of tenders to lowest bidders in the security sector compromises quality of service and MR BROOKS: Further supplementary. Thank you Mr breeds continuous conflict between employees and the Speaker. Honourable Minister, thank you for the answers but my concern is that the road you are talking about, employers. The provision of security services in public between Makopong and Kokotsha, the 30 kilometres procurement is classified as a simple service of a standard which long started in October 2018, it was given a nature where established practices and standards exist. year, are you aware that every time when we come to Hence, it uses the Least-Cost Selection (LCS) services Parliament they do five kilometres, every time? Every method of evaluation, which has been provided for time Parliament sits, they do a little something. About under Regulation 47 of the Public Procurement and 60 per cent has been done, but it was given a period of Asset Disposal Board (PPADB) Regulations. It is to be twelve months Minister. Do you want to tell me that we noted that this method, despite it being termed Least- need to accept that Government funds should be used in Cost Selection services, it does not only evaluate price. this manner, taking this long such that the project does A Two-Envelope submission method is followed, not benefit the nation and the people of Kgalagadi in any under which the quality of service, which is technical way Mr Minister? Thank you, sir. evaluation is first assessed and bidders that do not meet MR SEGOKGO: Honourable Brooks, thank you so the said technical threshold are disqualified. Technical much for giving me such an informative update about evaluation is intended to assess the technical response how that process has been going. I wish to say to you of bidders and their capacity to render services, hence that, that is wrong. It is absolutely wrong. It does not the requirement that only bidders that meet the said benefit us as Government or community for example; technical requirements can proceed to cost or financial if these projects are not running according to their evaluations stage. deliberate times. I wish to ask you, that I take what Mr Speaker, bidders that proceed to cost and financial you have informed me, verified and therefore, see what evaluation stage are then assessed on the reasonableness action we can take to ensure that there is expeditious of prices that they have proposed. Furthermore, the completion of the section of that road. It is wrong sir. assessment ensures that their prices include the various AWARD OF TENDERS IN SECURITY SECTOR pricing components that should be catered for under security services. The Invitation to Tender (ITT) and MR G. KEKGONEGILE (MAUN EAST): asked bidder’s response are broken down and clearly indicate the Minister of Finance and Economic Development if the various price components. Mr Speaker, if the bidder

2 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

awarded a tender, fails to deliver or pay employees, that MR KEKGONEGILE: Supplementary. Thank you will no longer be an issue of procurement but a company Mr Speaker. Honourable Minister, as we speak, security failing to meet or manage its resources. personnel at Letsholathebe and the entire Maun District Health Management Team (DHMT) have not received (i) Mr Speaker, it should be noted that the assessment their salaries for two months. The same things apply to criteria used in tenders is determined by procuring security personnel at Parliamentary flats where we stay. entities based on their needs for example; Do you mean that there is an issue of mismanagement number of guards required, need for relief across all these security companies whose workers guards, requirement for weekends and holiday are complaining about not receiving their salaries? services etcetera. This notwithstanding, PPADB Do you not realise that these security companies are has through the pricing instructions that are underpaid which results in them failing to pay workers? issued as part of the ITT, provided guidance on If payments are low, what causes that? Is it not caused price breakdown and how bidders are to itemise by the fact that they bid with low prices just to get a their rates according to the various components tender? If that is so, what do you think is the solution that make up their price. The PPADB, the Honourable Minister? Ministerial Tender Committees (MTCs) and District Administration Tender Committees DR MATSHEKA: Mr Speaker, I believe that the (DATCs) are required to vet tender documents to Honourable Member is moving away from the question ensure compliance with procurement guidelines. that he asked me. He is asking me about my outlook. Furthermore, Mr Speaker, procurement entities He is talking about someone who requested to provide are provided with guidance on how to prepare a service at a particular level and won a tender. Others failed to win a tender while he or she won and then he bidding documents, an assessment or evaluation or she fails to manage the tender outcomes in such a way criteria through capacity building workshops. that he or she is not able to pay workers, which means Where there are capacity gaps that exist, that that we now might have to change how we evaluate procuring entities, PPADB will continue to engage tenders. No, it cannot work like that. The tender process and guide as necessary. is there to select the company that was better than others at the technical level to deliver the tender and also at Mr Speaker, the current assessment criteria adequately the price level. I have said that the price includes all provide for evaluation of security services. However, the components that are stated in the ITT. Therefore, we the ministry is in the process of reviewing the current expect the winner of the tender to manage that contract, procurement law and its regulations and accordingly, together with the procuring entity to make sure if they it will reconsider looking at all tender methods with a are unable to provide their service, there is a termination view to closing all gaps that may exists. Clause. The entity that procured can terminate that (ii) Mr Speaker, allow me to indicate that statutory contract and get a service provider who can do it. Thank minimum wage adjustments are mandatory in you Mr Speaker. nature and are accordingly provided for on all contracts as per Regulation 81 of the PPADB HONOURABLE MEMBER: Supplementary. Regulations. PPADB has issued Circular No.1 of MR SPEAKER: Last supplementary. 2019 to guide procuring entities on the application of price adjustments in running contracts including MR MMOLOTSI: Supplementary. Thank you Mr provision for minimum wage increments over the Speaker. Minister, we realise that it is quite a challenge contract period. for security companies to pay workers. Will it be (iii) Mr Speaker, I wish to state that the PPADB Act, difficult to say that after they are awarded these tenders, PPADB Regulations and Procurement Guidelines they should employ workers and then submit how much require that bidders must include all the necessary salaries they are earning to different ministries using costs that will enable them to perform the required their services? The Government should then be the services including employee cost as stated in the one who pays these workers instead of giving security ITT. Therefore, the assessment criteria set out in companies all the funds only for them to fail to pay the ITT with the procuring entities may include workers? I am saying this because it is quite obvious guard relief packages and severance pay benefits. that security companies are not managing to pay their I thank you Mr Speaker. workers.

Hansard No 201 3 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

DR MATSHEKA: Mr Speaker, I do not understand 2016/2017 8 72,484.75 what Honourable Mmolotsi is saying, he is saying 2017/2018 7 108,540.70 that when he is managing his company, he should be awarded a tender and then the Government should be the one who pays his workers; no, Honourable Mmolotsi. When you have a company… or else you (ii) The total number of trips undertaken by the will never ever see an improvement in the quality and department during the same years are as follows; composition of Batswana owned businesses. So, maybe Year No. of trips Total Cost (BWP) you could be asking us to go and assist these people to 2015/2016 14 159,330.65 run their businesses in a way which fulfils their mandate. Government is trying to extricate itself from the private 2016/2017 18 171,069.30 sector. You are suggesting that we hand hold private 2017/2018 28 304, 594.50 companies, no sir, I do not agree with that. Thank you Mr Speaker. (iii) The number of officers besides the Director who INTERNATIONAL TRIPS UNDERTAKEN BY travelled in the same years and the costs are as THE DIRECTOR OF DWMPC follows; MR M. REATILE (JWANENG-MABUTSANE): Year No of officers Total Cost (BWP) asked the Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism to apprise this Honourable 2015/2016 8 89,846.40 House on; 2016/2017 8 98,585.55 2017/2018 17 198, 053.80 (i) the number of international trips undertaken by the Director of the Department of Waste Management (iv) The last part of the question Mr Speaker, is asking and Pollution Control (DWMPC) during Financial about the value of these trips to the department, Years 2015/2016, 2016/2017 and 2017/2018 as the ministry and the Government as a whole Mr well as the cost of such trips respectively; Speaker.

(ii) the total number of international trips undertaken The Waste Management Sector in the country by the department during the same financial years; has benefited in the following ways through these international trips. (iii) the number of officers besides the Director who travelled in the same years and the cost thereof; • Capacity building; Mr Speaker, this international and trips have helped to enhance the department’s capacity in managing resistant pollutants in the case (iv) the value the trips have added to the waste of Minamata convention on mercury, development management sector in the country. of policies and inventory management.

MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, NATURAL • It also enhanced the level of partnerships whereby RESOURCES CONSERVATION AND TOURISM the ministry was able to undertake research work (MS KERENG): I thank you Mr Speaker, good in collaboration with other research institutions; afternoon. I hope today technology will work in my for example; collaboration with Canada in doing favour. Mr Speaker, the global scientific research on Global Mercury Pollution and the partnership with Germany and the (i) The total number of international trips undertaken Republic of South Africa on equipment that is being by the Director of the Department of Waste used currently to measure air quality and the level of Management and Pollution Control during pollution in the air. financial years 2015/2016; 2016/2017; 2017/2018 stand as follows; • Again in terms of resources mobilisation Mr Speaker, our participation in these meetings and Year No of trips Total Cost (BWP) conferences have enabled us to secure funding from 2015/2016 4 69, 484.25 donor agencies for three major projects.

4 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

• For the Minamata initial assessment, the project has COVID-19 FUND been funded at US$145,000.00; MR O. RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): asked the Minister • We also received US$123,000.00 for the Poly- of Finance and Economic Development to state: Chlorinated Biphenyl (PCBs) elimination project. It is all about pollution control Mr Speaker. (i) the amount, equipment and any other assistance donated to the COVID-19 Fund and how it has • €127, 000.00 for the automated water quality been utilised; assessment for the Okavango and Chobe Rivers. These are occupational projects that are currently (ii) how much Government contributed or set aside in ongoing Mr Speaker. I thank you. the fight against COVID-19 and how it has been expended (spent); and MR REATILE: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. Thank you Honourable Minister for that detailed answer. (iii) when Parliament will be availed an audited Honourable Minister, the background of my question financial report on the COVID-19 Fund, which was, do we ever compare ourselves to other countries is a public fund and should be audited for the when we visit them? My question Honourable Minister purposes of transparency, accountability and good is, when this department visits other countries, why do governance. we still have dumping sites situated in public and next to major roads? MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister of Finance!

Rivers such as Notwane are very dirty. Do they not learn …(Silence)… how to clean rivers such as these ones who are in the midst of the city? Thank you. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Maybe he has run away! …(Laughter!)… Speaker, where is he? …Silence… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister of Finance! MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister! …(Silence)… MS KERENG: Yes! I am trying to unmute, and it keeps muting again. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Oh!

That is true Honourable Member. I indicated that the MR SPEAKER: It looks like there is a hitch. department benefits from these trips in different ways HONOURABLE MEMBER: He has run away. such as learning to upgrade their services to international standard and also receive funding. MR SPEAKER: No! HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Laughter!)… I agree with you that pollution and waste situation is appalling. That is why we are currently developing and MR SPEAKER: We can see him. drafting informed Integrated Waste Management (IWM) policies and the bill which will explain what we are HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Laughter!)… These going to be learning from our trips abroad. are huge sums. He has run away. …Silence… I believe that as you will be applying your mind to that Bill when it comes, you will help us pass it so that we HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ramogapi, you are attend to waste management swiftly, reduce waste taken making noise. to landfills, carry out recycling projects for businesses to generate income out of recycling and reusing with the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister! aim of cleaning cities and villages Honourable Member. HONOURABLE MEMBER: When we knock off, he We are worried about this situation but these trips have should remain behind and get training. capacitated and assisted us to have partners who helped us to formulate this IWP Policy and the Bill. Thank you HONOURABLE MEMBER: Can we move to the next Mr Speaker. question?

Hansard No 201 5 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

UNIVERSAL ACCESS TO GENERAL Phatsimo 49 34 PRACTITIONERS Meepong 55 36 Selebi MR T. LETSHOLO (KANYE NORTH): asked the 126 85 Phikwe Minister of Health and Wellness whether subject to Makhubu 56 39 managing conflict of interest, it is feasible for the purpose Lebogang 54 34 of enabling universal access to General Practitioners Total 387 262 for the ministry to allow private General Practitioners to consult at Government clinics and hospitals; and to further state: (ii) Mr Speaker, the following are number of teachers (i) what viable best practice examples he can share sharing houses in each one of these schools; from other countries for this model; and Number of Teachers (ii) what retention incentives exist for talented doctors, School Sharing nurses and other professionals in Government healthcare. Boikhutso 10 Phatsimo 4 MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister of Health and Meepong 4 Wellness! Selebi Phikwe 40 …Silence… Makhubu 25 Lebogang 19 ACCOMMODATION FOR SELEBI PHIKWE Total 102 TEACHERS

MR D. L. KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): asked the Minister of Basic Education to brief (iii) The following are number of married teachers this Honourable House on the accommodation situation sharing in each one of these schools; for teachers in Selebi Phikwe Junior and Senior Secondary Schools, in particular he should state: Number of Married School Teachers Sharing (i) the number of teachers per school and number of houses in each school; Boikhutso 3 Phatshimo 4 (ii) the number of teachers sharing houses in each school; Meepong 0 Selebi Phikwe 15 (iii) the number of those sharing houses in each school and are married; and Makhubu 8 Lebogang 12 (iv) what the effect of this accommodation shortage is on teachers and how he will address this problem. Total 42

MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR (iv) Lastly Mr Speaker, my ministry does not have MOLAO): Mr Speaker, thank you. I am audible, but sufficient housing to provide individual houses for there is some echo somewhere. Mr Speaker, all of its employees, even though that is our desire. I am aware of the effects of sharing accommodation (i) The following are the numbers of teachers per which can lead to stress, low morale and currently school and of houses in each school in Selebi with the COVID-19 pandemic, an increased risk Phikwe; of infection for those who live in one dwelling. Number of School Number of Houses Teachers My ministry will continue to procure and build houses Boikhutso 47 34 for teachers, subject to funds availability as we move along. I thank you Mr Speaker.

6 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Supplementary. Availability of BCL houses; I must be honest that even though we are aware that BCL is closed, we know that MR KEORAPETSE: Supplementary. Thank you Mr this mine has been undergoing the liquidation process. speaker. Minister, concerning the statistics that you gave I believe we can talk to the liquidators to find out if to us of teachers who are sharing, do you have statistics they can rent these houses to the ministries, so that we of those who do not live in teachers’ houses, those who may identify those that we can rent. We will pursue that are trying to avoid sharing and end up living outside option. It is impossible to buy or build enough houses school premises? That is the first one. but as a matter of fact, we bought 18 houses for teachers Secondly; we have almost four years since BCL mine from Botswana Housing Corporation (BHC) in Selebi was closed in Selebi Phikwe since 2016. We have many Phikwe, in 2014. During this financial year, under BCL houses which are not dilapidated, which could Public Private Partnership (PPP), we will be procuring a temporarily accommodate teachers. Have you heard transactional advisor who will assist us in terms of how anything about availability of these houses or not? to go about the PPP plan to provide accommodation for teachers across the country and in which areas. We Lastly; Minister, this is a simple response which already have that plan. Our budget proposal also has a various Ministers usually give, including you that funds component to build houses where possible. Of course permitting, we will try to do it. Do you have a plan they are not going to be enough but even though we which is in place to maintain or improve the condition have some ideas which we cannot plan on our own, of teachers’ houses? Do you have an ongoing plan which besides building houses and where possible, we intend we can see, which you can show us that even though we to have a discussion with Department of Public Service have this situation, I am going to try to address shortage Management (DPSM) to consider giving teachers of teachers’ houses, not simply saying that you are going some sort of an allowance so that they can find their to build houses? Do you have another plan besides own accommodation, it is something to pursue. It is saying funds permitting, you will build houses because something which requires assessment and discussions, on many cases, we get responses which show that we we will invite teacher associations and all stakeholders will never be able to source funds? to the panel. Like I am saying, every year we procure certain amount of houses and we are considering Public HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… Private Partnerships (PPP), as I said, it might help us MR MOLAO: Some members are murmuring Mr to increase houses across the country. Thank you Mr Speaker, so I cannot respond. Speaker. MATERNAL MORTALITY MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)… MR T. B. LUCAS (BOBONONG): asked the Minister MR MOLAO: Yes, sir. of Health and Wellness to update this Honourable House HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… on the state of maternal mortality in the last five years; and to further state: MR MOLAO: In response to the first question Mr (i) the contributory factors to maternal mortality in Speaker, I do not have the statistics of those who are order of significance; staying outside school premises Honourable Member, but we will source them. We usually try by all means (ii) initiatives to prevent maternal mortality and to transfer teachers, a teacher may ask to be transferred whether such are effective; and to Selebi Phikwe since they built a house there, so that they may live in their house if not provided with one for (iii) the top five health facilities in the country that example. They may also say I have a family there, I will have had the highest number of maternal deaths in live with them, so transfer me there. It is something that the last two years. we encourage across our schools, that those who are able ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND and have houses near their working place, we may assist WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you them so that they may go there as a way of addressing Mr Speaker. Let me first apologise, we had technical the issue of housing. That is what some of them do and problems this side when Letsholo’s question was asked sometimes it does not work but I will source statistics of and we were still battling these Information Technology those staying outside school premises. (IT) gadgets.

Hansard No 201 7 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

Mr Speaker, the state of maternal mortality in Botswana • Poor adherence to medical advice for the last five years is as follows: (ii) Mr Speaker, some of the initiatives that are undertaken to prevent maternal mortality are: Category 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 • Strategic change of direction with focus being put on Maternal Deaths 73 85 75 71 87 primary health care

• Promotion and expansion of family planning Maternal Mortality Ratio (per 100, 000 127.0 156.6 143.2 133.7 166.3 services, for example, the introduction of inplanon; live births) • Provision of youth friendly services within clinics, Mr Speaker, with the sole aim of educating young people about sexuality; (i) the contributory factors to maternal mortality in order of significance are as follows: • Capacity building of health care workers, to improve quality of care; (a)Strategic Consideration and health facility related • Maternal mortality monitoring system to understand factors what caused or contributed to the deaths so as to …Silence… prevent such occurrences;

MR SPEAKER: Technical problems? • Providing a comprehensive post abortion care: women or couples are counselled and offered family planning, or referred for other services as the …Silence… situation may require; • The implantation of the Maternal Mortality MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)… Reduction Initiative (MMRI), a strategy designed to MR LELATISITSWE: improve quality of care by instituting high impact interventions during antenatal, delivery and post (a) Health facility related factors natal periods;

• Inadequate blood and blood products at health • The involvement of males in sexual reproductive facilities health matters, this is aimed at ensuring that men and women sexuality and can assist and support the • Inadequate supplies and equipment partners in an informed way. (iii) Mr Speaker, the top five facilities in the country • Inadequate Intensive Care Unit (ICU) facilities that have had the highest number of maternal death • Inadequate air services at night in remote areas the last two years are: 2019 Facility Total (b)Health worker related factors Princess Marina Hospital 33 • Delayed service provision or interventions Nyangabwe Referral Hospital 10 Sekgoma Primary Hospital 6 • Delayed referrals Ghanzi Primary Hospital 4 Letsholathebe Hospital, and • Supervision and monitoring Hukuntsi Primary Hospital 3 each (c)Patient factors 2020 Princess Marina Hospital 23 • Poor Health Seeking behaviour in respect to delayed Nyangabwe Referral Hospital 13 action and seeking help Sekgoma Primary Hospital 4 Letsholathebe and Scottish • Late or failure to book for antenatal care 3 each Hospital

8 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

I thank you Mr Speaker. hours. So what we are going to do, we are going to do is that we will move these questions to tomorrow and MR LUCAS: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. The I think that may be around 12. We will also then put issue of maternal mortality is a huge concern. On average the appropriation after the questions; not before, not to of the figures you gave, it shows that maternal mortality interfere with the Question Time so that those who want is 140 women out of every 100 000 in Botswana but to speak should come prepared. in other countries like Norway, maternal mortality is 2 out of 100 000; Sweden maternal mortality is 4 out of MR MATHOOTHE: On a point of procedure Mr every 100 000. It shows that there are strategies which Speaker. Mr Speaker, let me ask if it is procedural that can reduce maternal mortality. So what is your plan or when I have included a question, it is then removed target according to National Development Plan (NDP) from today’s Order Paper without informing me? 11 to reduce maternal mortality from 140 out of 100 000? This is the first question. Honourable Minister, MR SPEAKER: Obviously not, it cannot be procedural. since there are other countries which are doing well in You ought to have been informed why that is so. The terms of curbing maternal mortality is there anything information I got Honourable Mathoothe was that you benchmarked from them which you can be able to your question had as of today been referred to another apply in order to reduce this number? ministry. As I read it also, the Ministry for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration was Lastly, do we have a target set for 2036 to have reduced saying that it is not their question but rather that of maternal mortality as we always say people will live Defence, Justice and Security. However, you ought to be better in 2036? Thank you. informed that Ministry of Defence, Justice and Security was not able to answer your question because it was MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Mr Speaker. To taken to them today. You are right Honourable Matho, answer the Honourable Member, let me indicate that it is you ought to be informed. I was of that impression that our concern that there is maternal mortality. Honourable you were informed. I am sorry that that happened. It Member gave an example of well developed countries should never happen because you came prepared that such that if we compare them to Botswana in terms of maybe you can ask supplementaries only to find that education, the people there are health conscious. There there is a corrigendum and your question is removed. is no delay in registration as some people simply ignore It was wrong. since they stay at the cattle posts and so on which are DR GOBOTSWANG: Further procedure Mr Speaker. not there at those countries. As Botswana, I think to This issue whereby Ministers receive questions and they respond to your first question, we are concerned just realise that they are not meant for their ministries, then like you see in his second supplementary which I think they just stay with those questions until the last minute will be a repetition to part (ii) of his question he asked to indicate that they should be taken to other ministries, about strategies, initiatives we are undertaking to curb it is derailing us from the procedure because when it has maternal mortality. I think we focused on those ones. already been included in the Order Paper, us and those who wish to know those answers become hopeful. They Let me indicate that our global goal is to attain 70 per will be hoping that that question will be asked and that 100 000 which is our target by 2030, so we are also an answer will be provided Mr Speaker. I thank you. sailing in the same ship. As you indicated that we are hovering around 140 which is true but our target sir, is at MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang, you are least 70 in 100 000 population. I think we have already quite right. The questions appear on the Notice Paper mentioned the strategies, it will take a long time if I and sent to the ministries ahead of even the Notice were to repeat them. Thank you. Paper. That means that we are lax. Those responsible, the administrators in the ministries ought to pick that MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, we have thing up immediately so that they can determine that it overshot the runway. We have only done six questions; the is not their question and not at the last minute. If that rest should move on to tomorrow. Regarding tomorrow, is so, it is also an indication that the answers we are when we look at the questions which have been noticed getting are prepared in a rush, at the last minute. That and indeed…(Inaudible)…to the Ministers, it appears is not how it works in any Government. That message that there may be not enough questions to cover two had been relayed to the Permanent Secretaries (PSs) that

Hansard No 201 9 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

it should not happen that way. Therefore, you are right MR SALESHANDO: On a point of procedure Mr Honourable Dr Gobotswang, it is very disturbing. Speaker. Mr Speaker, you will remember that yesterday when Member of Parliament for Jwaneng-Mabutsane HONOURABLE MEMBER: One more procedure Mr Honourable Reatile was speaking, he indicated some Speaker. of the things that are not tallying with what is stated in the Mid-Term Review, but they have been included MR SPEAKER: Let us not waste time because we are in today’s Estimates. I do not want to second-guess; I not going to gain anything, it concerns laxity which do not know if the statement the Minister of Finance we have seen. We do not have time for debate. I will wanted to make is related to that issue or not? We should rather… we go on with the debate. be assured about the time these numbers that have been MR MOTSAMAI: Procedure. Mr Speaker, it is just put before Parliament are going to be explained because we may be debating a budget which in future we might a brief one. Mine is an advice on the procedure Mr be told to retract, whereas we do not have time for Speaker. Members of Parliament ask questions, and discussing the budget. Did they explain when they will after they have asked the questions, the Ministers tell us about the numbers that are not tallying with what will talk about different irrelevant issues to answer a is on the Mid-Term Review? Thank you. brief question. What I request is that Ministers should summarise their answers so that Members of Parliament MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, there are no can have follow-ups on the questions because they will numbers that are not tallying. There is a position by be giving feedback to the constituents. Thank you Mr Honourable Reatile that the numbers are not tallying. That is one position. Whether it is true they are not Speaker. tallying, it is one thing to be explained and debated. MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Motsamai. What I did after that debate was to contact the Ministry Yes, I was almost tempted twice to direct that the answer of Finance that we have an issue here, I cannot as be given to the Honourable Member who asked because a Speaker debate these figures myself in the way I I did not think that some of the things we are being understand them. It is better if they come and make a statement before they reply to the general debates on the told in attempt to answer a simple question were really Second Reading. That is what I expected the Minister necessary. It is an issue we will discuss when we have would do today. Up until we got in the House, I had not more time to indicate how answers could be shortened seen the statement and the extra information which is really unnecessary should not come. and therefore in terms of the Standing Orders, I would not allow anybody to come and read a statement I have There was an addendum indicating the issue of the not seen. Hence, the Minister has just indicated that it statement by Finance. I think they have disappeared; they will be tomorrow, regarding that very issue. are not ready. Therefore, we move on to appropriation. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC HONOURABLE MEMBER: That statement will be DEVELOPMENT (DR MATSHEKA): Thank you made tomorrow. Mr Speaker. I think it is very important Mr Speaker APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, and I appreciate that you have made it clear that there is 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) nothing wrong with the numbers. Unfortunately, there have been other misinterpretations that were made by Second Reading Members during the debates. Given the gravity of what Honourable Reatile has said, we will indeed share the (Resumed Debate) statement with you this evening Mr Speaker, for us to MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members. deliver it tomorrow. Thank you. The debate is resuming. When the House adjourned MR SPEAKER: There you are Honorable Leader of yesterday, Honourable Mathoothe was on the floor. He the Opposition (LOO), we should be able to deal with is left with 17 minutes 56 seconds. the matter tomorrow. MR MATHOOTHE (SEROWE NORTH): Thank HONOURABLE MEMBER: Thank you, sir. you Mr Speaker…

10 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much. President. This is the main duty he should be focusing on. When we talk about unemployment, we are talking MR MATHOOTHE: Thank you Mr Speaker, let me about the 60 per cent affecting the youth. It is a huge continue where I had stopped yesterday. Yesterday responsibility that he should focus on. I just wanted to when we parted, I was talking about certain things that touch on this one because it is important that those who should be looked into when we talk about empowering are serious with farming should be supported and taken Batswana, especially in the agriculture sector. In Serowe somewhere. In my constituency, I have various farmers, we have a place called Radihemelo, that is a place where they are many and they need assistance. It is evident dirty water is cleaned to be used by farmers to grow that these people are serious with farming. It seems as various crops. We have the Dikabeya dam in Palapye, if we are ignoring them; we do not take care of them, and there are farmers there. When lease agreements propelling them to move forward. are made, when it comes to farmers who would be interested in ploughing, some of the things which should I cannot avoid talking about the fact that as Botswana, at be included are that it should be ensured that whoever this point in time we should be having ways of acquiring wants to plough, should be a farmer indeed and this the COVID-19 vaccines. One wonders whether some should be incorporated in the lease, so that we would of the decisions that are taken by the Government, are not find ourselves having given someone a spot only for they showing that indeed they are seriously seeking to them to want to lease it to somebody else. These are the acquire the vaccine? Amongst the companies which challenges that we come across, when these policies are have already advertised or those which have pointed out made, we should probe deeper. There should be a clear that they have the vaccine, there is another vaccine by Clause that when one fails to plough, we take it back Pfizer, which they say is 95 per cent effective. It even and give it to another person. That is how we can assure costs $15, and when one converts that to the Pula, it production. costs around P150. This is one of the vaccines we could be considering at this point in time, because it differs a As I am talking now, when you go to Dikabeya you lot with the one in South Africa. When you talk about its are going to find people having been given lands, they 95 per cent effectiveness, you can notice that it is much have signed the leases of 25 years, yet someone has no better, considering the fact that it is a vaccine which intension to plough. From there they would lease it to once we give to Batswana, they could be assisted; it can somebody else, or if they do not plough like the person revive the economy. You will notice that we are carrying next to them, there would be those that are serious with on with some projects, and those needed to be halted a ploughing, the place for the one who is not ploughing bit. If I may give an example, if you take a project of would have weeds and then it would mean pests would refurbishing the Office of the President to the tune of come from there to attack the crops of the serious farmer. P42 million, it should have been paused. Using funds These are things which should be considered very much up to P70 million to buy armored cars, these are funds if we want serious production, and to enable those who which could have been taken and deposited to enable us are ploughing to employ others. Therefore, this issue to buy a vaccine to help Batswana. When you look at has to be considered in that manner. the population of Botswana, it is not that dense; hence, In the beginning when the Dikabeya project was done, most people could be helped because at this particular it was said that land was for Agriculture, so that it juncture we have come to a very difficult situation. If would have powers to remove those who are not able you go to Serowe at the isolation centres, where the to plough. There is a huge role that Local Enterprise people are kept, you will find out that even the numbers Authority (LEA) is playing and they asked for space at of their care givers is not enough. They work day and Dikabeya. They then gave it to the youth and told them night and that is a very serious challenge. We should that their duty was to grow crops. When you go there, be swift to source the vaccine, before the nation of the youth are the ones producing. These are youth whom Botswana vanishes. the Ministry of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture MR LUCAS: Elucidation. I thank you Mr Speaker. Development should monitor. Honourable Rakgare Honourable Mathoothe, you are talking about vaccines has to monitor the youth to ensure that they are doing which could be highly beneficial like the ones made these projects very well; he should take care of them. by Pfizer. Remember that when we asked a question He should not waste his time talking about the former in December, as to how prepared we were to acquire

Hansard No 201 11 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

vaccines like those from Pfizer which need to be kept them so that they could use P400 million and they go at very low temperatures; we were told that we might away with the P2 billion so that at least P400 million not need such vaccines, because there are others which could go to Batswana? Thank you. could be carried in a cooler box and then vaccination carried out on people. You are indeed right; there is no HONOURABLE MEMBER: Did you say Pfizer? seriousness in terms of finding a serious vaccine which MR MATHOOTHE: Thank you Mr Speaker. That would enable our economy to start functioning again. I is true, we hurried to lock people in their houses and thank you sir. started using funds the way they were used. Right now MR MATHOOTHE: Thank you sir, that is indeed true our cases have skyrocketed, this is the time in which Honourable Member. At this point in time, this issue of funds could be used as you are saying and those funds finding the vaccine is something which… could be used to purchase enough vaccines to protect Batswana. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, I had lifted my hand virtually, but I am not being responded to, you Still on this issue, we are in a difficult situation right did not see me. now. People are told to self-isolate at home in difficult situations where they do not even have food. You MR SPEAKER: Okay, Honourable Morwaeng, on will find that Batswana who are on isolation at home what point sir? are always calling, sometimes they call their Member of Parliament (MP) and Councillor to ask for food. It MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL also takes time for them to be tested. These are difficult AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC issues, we should purchase the vaccine as soon as ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): Yes sir, I possible. am asking for clarification from Honourable Mathoothe. Moving on, yesterday Honourable Reatile talked about MR MATHOOTHE: No, I am not yielding. exploration of oil at Okavango and this is an issue that we have to talk about, it should not be a secret. When MR MORWAENG: Oh well, thank you. we talk about the economy, maybe this oil can be one of MR MATHOOTHE: As I continue Mr Speaker, like the things that can develop the economy of Botswana I was saying, there is no seriousness. A question was and that is if it can be discovered. At Botswana Patriotic Front (BPF), we do not go around collecting updates asked here in Parliament regarding how prepared they from newspapers, we go to the websites of these were. It was taken lightly. Right now… companies and get news there. Botswana gave Recon MR SPEAKER: Honourable Reatile, your hand is up, Africa company exploration licence to dig up oil all the on what point? way to Tsodilo. As we know that it is a historical site, United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural MR REATILE: I am standing on a point of elucidation. Organization (UNESCO) which looks after historical sites pointed out that…(Interruptions)… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mathoothe, there you go. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, I am MR MATHOOTHE: I yield. standing on a point of order. MR REATILE: Elucidation. Thank you Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Morwaeng, yes. Honourable, you are debating very well. Are you aware that when you talk about Pfizer which costs $15 per MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, dose, do you not think in the P2.4 billion which was GOVERNANCEAND PUBLICADMINISTRATION released, we could have taken around P400 million (MR MORWAENG): On point of order. Mr Speaker, I and paid this company? We could have been having a want to make it clear to Batswana that the allegation that vaccine costing 1.9 million, or P400 million. Right now vehicles were purchased for P70 million are not true, the Batswana could be ululating, maybe everyone could Honourable Member is misleading the nation. It is not be bragging about the BDP including the Botswana correct. I am saying this as a Minister who is responsible Patriotic Front (BPF). Can you not guide them and ask for presidency, that allegation is totally misleading the them to go and get these funds where they have stashed nation.

Hansard No 201 12 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

MR SPEAKER: I think it is a question of correction, MR MATHOOTHE: No, time is not on my side. rather than order. MR MOAGI: I will only take 30 seconds or less, you MR MORWAENG: Oh! Forgive me Mr Speaker. I cannot refuse to yield for me, you know… wanted to explain that those figures are misleading, I do not know where he gets them from because he has been (Inaudible)… saying that their fake party does not get updates from MR MATHOOTHE: Let me give him 30 seconds. newspapers. MR MOAGI: Yes Sir. Thank you Mr Speaker. Than HONOURABLE MEMBER: What is the exact figure? you Honourable Mathoothe. Let us always put things MR MATHOOTHE: Let me proceed Mr Speaker. as they are to avoid misleading Batswana. We are all leaders, so we have to tell Batswana the truth. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR Reconnaissance Energy Botswana (Recon Botswana) SALESHANDO): On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I was issued an exploration licence to explore petroleum take it that you notice what Minister Morwaeng was minerals at North West of Botswana, from the first of doing, Standing Orders state that you cannot ask for June 2020 for four years. The area does not cover the a point of clarification and then change it instantly to buffer zones which include Okavango Delta and Tsodilo a point of point of order like he just did. Even when Hills because those are protected sites. So they are only you tell him that it was not a point of order, he violates going to do that and take the information that they are going to apply in order to drill. So I wanted to iron out the Standing Orders intentionally, we talked about this that issue, that it is not how you are putting it. Thank issue last time. Mr Speaker, I believe that it is important you Honourable. for Minister Morwaeng to be called to order for always violating the Standing Orders. Thank you Mr Speaker. MR MATHOOTHE: Thank you Mr Speaker. I am not MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! I thought when he was misleading Batswana anyhow; I have got facts. You asking for the floor, Honourable Mathoothe was not issued an exploration licence that included the Tsodilo debating this issue of the vehicles. So he could not have Hills. Ba UNESCO, they are the ones who stated that tried to anticipate something he has never said. I do not you cannot include Tsodilo historical sites. Previously see how he could have done that. the licence was covering 9 921 square kilometres. After they complained, that is when you agreed with them, MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, you just issued the licence to them. They then agreed SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): On a point of order. Thank you very with them and then you amended the exploration much Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I am rising on a point licence that will now exclude the Tsodilo Hills, the of order, I do not think it is right for Honourable license which originally included Tsodilo Hills. This Mathoothe to stand in Parliament and say that I am means that had UNESCO not said anything, you could always talking about Khama. That is incorrect. when have not amended the license. Right now that licence you say I am “always” the word ‘always’ indicates that I has been reduced from 9 921 square kilometres to 8 talk about Khama consistently and persistently and that 990 square kilometres. That is the new one that you is not correct because the message that he is trying to issued to them after the advice from UNESCO. That send to the nation is that Khama is my mission here in is why I am saying, issues like these have to be made Parliament. So I think he must withdraw that statement, public. We should also understand that Recon Africa it is a reckless statements Mr Speaker. Thank you. was issued another exploration licence on the other side in Namibia, where they have started drilling. That is MR SPEAKER: Honourable Rakgare, that is not a why I am saying that these are the minerals that have point of order. If you reached an agreement there, it does to be made public, so that Batswana can know what is not affect the order of this House. happening. Everything has to be made public because many Batswana are interested in these things, that if MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN oil can be discovered, it can support the economy of TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR Botswana. MOAGI): Thank you Mr Speaker. I am rising on a point of elucidation please. Let me go back to issues which…

Hansard No 201 13 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mathoothe, Honourable are going to drill 40 kilometres (km) into Botswana in Dr Tshabang is asking for clarification. search of oil? In Botswana it is 42 per cent, in Zambia it is between 10 and 12 per cent, the rest is in Namibia. MR MATHOOTHE: Yes. Can you confirm that? That is what they are celebrating DR TSHABANG: On a point of clarification. This in their website. Thank you sir. drilling of oil from the Namibian side, when you are MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mathoothe! underground, are you allowed to drill and pump from Botswana, then oil exit from the Namibian side or do MR MATHOOTHE: …(Inaudible)… you need to come to Botswana then drill from this side? How is the geology of drilling in that matter? Just a MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mathoothe! clarification. Thank you. MR MATHOOTHE: Sorry. Thank you Mr Speaker. MR MATHOOTHE: Thank you sir. That is what we are cautioning the Minister on.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation.

MR MATHOOTHE: Thank you sir. Yesterday the MR SPEAKER: There is no time. Minister explained that fracking is not allowed. We MR MATHOOTHE: There is no time. That is what we suspect that… are doing cautioning the Minister on what the situation MR SPEAKER: Honourable, Honourable Dikoloti is is. We have done our part and we are leaving the rest to asking for elucidation. him.

MR MATHOOTHE: My time is up, I am not yielding. Let me quickly talk about developments in Serowe; one of the Honourable Members when debating said he MR SPEAKER: Please proceed. knew developments were centred around headquarters. However, looking at Serowe which is the headquarters of MR MATHOOTHE: Yes, he answered yesterday that Central, we do not see the developments that people are Botswana does not allow fracking. What I am trying to talking about. We do not see them because old Sekgoma say is that we should always be on guard. We are also Memorial Hospital was built by Magosi before the advising the Minister to be on guard because on the other advent of democracy which brought political parties. side of Namibia, they have started drilling. He should They were resourceful. Swaneng Hill School was built always be on the lookout and guard what Batswana have by students; in the morning they attended classes and entrusted to him. I believe he will do this diligently so in the afternoon they built classrooms. Farmers Brigade that we do not find those on the other side pumping oil was built a long time ago by Whites. Dams in Serowe from Botswana underground. That is the fracking we do were built by Tshekedi’s regiments. These are the not want in Botswana. ones assisting Batswana which we are now calling on agriculture department to re-dig them up. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation Honourable There are no roads in Serowe, there are potholes Mathoothe. everywhere. There are no developments at all. Even MR MATHOOTHE: Who is it? those we were promised like the airport, was not delivered and now we hear about the airstrip in Palapye. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Jwaneng-Mabutsane. Serowe-Palapye road has also failed. Thank you sir.

MR SPEAKER: Reatile. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Balopi!

MR MATHOOTHE: Alright Honourable Member. I …Silence… yield sir. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Balopi! MR REATILE: Elucidation. Thank you Honourable Speaker. Honourable Mathoothe have you seen MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT, LABOUR from the website that Reconnaissance Energy Africa PRODUCTIVITY AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT (ReconAfrica) are celebrating that they have been (MR BALOPI): Thank you Mr Speaker. I believe I am permitted to carry out fracking at Okavango? They audible Mr Speaker.

14 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

MR SPEAKER: Indeed, Minister. MR BALOPI: Mr Speaker, days after Dr Matsheka gave us the speech… MR BALOPI: Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, let me start by greeting and thanking Honourable MR MOLALE: I assume you are talking to me Mr Members. Mr Speaker, allow me to respond to the Speaker, but I cannot hear anything. Budget as was presented by the Minister of Finance, Dr Matsheka. With your permission Mr Speaker, I would MR SPEAKER: We are able to hear you. like to indicate something since Dr Matsheka presented HONOURABLE MEMBER: I will tell you what was his speech during a tough time. With your permission, I said. would start by quoting from the Holy Bible. MR SPEAKER: No! No! You cannot do that. I know MR SPEAKER: Please do. that you are together but you cannot do that.

MR BALOPI: Mr Speaker, I will quote it in English. MR BALOPI: Mr Speaker, as I continue, it was after Proverbs 16: 1 says, “we made our plans but God has two to three weeks after presentation of the Budget the last word.” Isaiah 55:8 says, “my plans are not Speech by Dr Matsheka last year that COVID-19 struck. your plans nor your ways, says the Lord.” Mr Speaker, Everyone knows its effects though it started with some I am quoting verses from the Bible because last year Dr Matsheka presented the Budget Speech and all the doubting. Like the Bible says, our plans and ways are plans before this Honourable House. These were plans the Lord’s. Although people were doubting or did not that could improve the lives of Batswana and take our realise the scourge that was coming, at the end their country forward. I am quoting these verses because eyes were opened and they have started denying what COVID-19 has shown us that we can have plans… they said. Therefore, I believe from paragraph three to eight, Dr Matsheka explained broadly the impacts of HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, we cannot this disease on our economy. On Paragraph 10 and 11, hear anything. he is showing us how we responded. You will recall that MR BALOPI: … to be in a position to implement our the review of the National Development Plan (NDP) 11 plans. Mr Speaker, someone is talking and it seems it is was presented in Parliament as a way of responding to Honourable Molao. I do not know what the problem is. the circumstances that we found ourselves in. Mr Speaker, moving on I want to say… We came back to Parliament to say, we need to come MR SPEAKER: Somebody is saying they cannot hear up with what we can call review of a review, which proved that the challenges were deepening. Lastly we anything. came up with Economic Recovery and Transformation MR BALOPI: I do not know… Plan (ERTP), which were plans which required funding. Upon realising that our income revenue is not coming MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND in as frequently as it used to, we had to come up with RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): It is strategies of making sure that we implement some plans me, Mr Speaker. The network is so bad, I cannot hear using what we have. We had to divide the little resources a thing. that we have to achieve our plans. We all know and realise that what we were told is actually real because HONOURABLE MEMBER: Let us continue, you are it is actually happening in our country. Many of us are the only one who cannot hear. affected, we lose many lives on a daily basis. When the Leader of Opposition (LOO), Honourable Saleshando MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molale, the problem is on presented last time, he informed us about some of the your side. Everyone can hear. The problem is at Local legends who lost their lives, those that we never thought Government and Rural Development. would be late today. He also applauded and encouraged MR BALOPI: Mr Speaker, I believe you have frozen us to find a way of recognising and showing gratitude to my time. those who lost their lives because of this pandemic. This shows that we realise the magnitude of the issue that we MR SPEAKER: Go ahead, it is frozen. are dealing with. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Let us continue, Unfortunately, after highlighting those things, the LOO otherwise he will delay us. went back to criticise some of the plans which we failed

Hansard No 201 15 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

to implement in the 2020 budget. The truth is, criticising truth going forth, that Government is no longer going to what we failed to achieve is like you do not understand assist in the usual manner. why that happened. Mr Speaker, we know that our income is generated through different sectors which we Mr Speaker, another issue which I would like to briefly have been told that they are affected and as thus, they address in relation to COVID-19 is that, BDP has failed to generate adequate income which can be used to been running the Government of Botswana ever since implement those plans. So if we think it is business as we gained our independence, it has never failed this usual even though we know that it is business unusual, nation and it will never fail this nation. Mr Speaker, we would be contradicting ourselves. we successfully defeated many pandemics such as Tuberculosis (TB), measles, smallpox and lung diseases In that manner, as I respond to the budget speech which attacked the livestock that the lives of Batswana presented before us Mr Speaker, this era is really going depended on. They affected our livestock and we had to to test our capability and what kind of leaders we are exercise measures to save them so that they can multiply. towards the nation of Botswana during this testing time. It is testing the strategies that we are going to exercise Additionally, we fought HIV/AIDS, illiteracy, to give Batswana hope, to show them that indeed we are hunger and starvation; we now have educated people; dealing with a great challenge which is going to bring professors, doctors, economists, scientists just as we “the new normal’’, just as we can see that the situation have them in both the opposition and in the BDP. Those is changing; you would be with a person today and they are some of the measures that we exercised in order to are no more tomorrow. You would think you have a deal with the challenges that we had when we gained job today and lose it tomorrow because we are failing independence. So I want us to give all Batswana hope as to generate income. We are told on a daily basis that, their leaders who are in Parliament and Council that we human movement worsens our situation; this means, will never fail to rescue this nation, and BDP has never human movement and interaction spreads the virus. failed. So this is going to happen as people keep saying that we have failed, Batswana must recall how long we We also know that human movement, interaction and have been reigning and what we managed to achieve, socialising improves the economy. However, you will what you achieved and where they landed us today. realise that human movement and interaction, movement of goods, especially things that run the economy, they The other thing is to come up with some interventions conflict with the pandemic. This means COVID-19, as concerning what can be done Mr Speaker. The most it is greatly attacking Botswana also greatly affects the important thing is to introspect as a country. We have to economy. find out if a time has not come for us to assess our national development plan in relation to how we have been Everyone is affected, so we have to stand up as leaders operating so that we can start nurturing a Motswana so and show that; it is not like we are boasting about this they venture into businesses or come up with strategies pandemic or infuriating it or belittling or provoking which can produce results which they may benefit from each other, simply because we are politicians. This era as well as feed others. This is where we ensure that requires us to be united Mr Speaker, to speak with one Batswana venture into potential businesses where we voice and show Batswana that they must change how force those who have already ventured into businesses they have been doing things. They have to change how or those who are interested in venturing into businesses they hope Government is going to assist them. It is clear to join training. This is where we show them their that this pandemic is going to end up forcing us to impose weaknesses if they make mistakes, where we nurture lockdown so that we can take care of our loved ones them until they reach a level where they become great and control their movements. Moreover, Government in businesses and partake in our economic development. is not going to manage to continue quarantining people When a Motswana start keeping livestock, they are in certain places, where they are isolated and provided serious about it or if they have a business... with medical assistance. This means everyone must start learning and committing themselves, must be interested MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai, your hand is in finding out how they can assist patients at home or up, on what point? those who contacted the virus. This situation has taken place; it is already here so we have to tell people the MR BALOPI: Who are you referring to Mr Speaker?

16 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai, your hand is you claim that you know them from childhood because up. I want to know on what point? you were friends, you played together, so they cannot prosper and you would rather support foreigners. So we MR BALOPI: I will hear from him Mr Speaker. need to improve on this aspect as Batswana and start MR MOTSAMAI: I humbly request for clarification supporting each other. As Batswana, we should focus sir. on positive aspects more especially the ones which can build and unite us as a nation because the only time we MR BALOPI: I yield but be brief so we can move on. can boost the economy is if we can prosper as Batswana and stop Pull Him Down (PHD) or her syndrome, MR MOTSAMAI: Through you Mr Speaker, we jealousy and being notorious for hatred. We should start understand what Honourable Balopi is saying in relation being popular for supporting one another like people to what they managed to achieve like he listed them. So from other nations; when they establish businesses they if they are going to keep claiming that they managed to support each other so that their businesses grow. These educate people, built hospitals, constructed roads, they are the things we need to start talking about so that we must show us a country which failed to perform these can prosper. things. They must show us a country which failed to educate people even though funds were provided for Honourable Matsheka, I am happy that you talked about that. Thank you. Public Private Partnership (PPP), whereby Government MR BALOPI: Let me proceed Mr Speaker. Honourable should encourage private sectors to participate in Motsamai, you would have to research and find out how projects which can boost our economy; whether they are many African countries, including others elsewhere, roads, schools or whatever project it may be. We should you will find what they managed to achieve in relation more especially start engaging private sectors to invest to what Botswana managed to achieve in the same in schools, roads and install tollgates so that they can period. That is when you will get your answer, so we service these roads. If we can do that we will be a high can discuss it so I can sponsor you. quality country with very high quality infrastructure and become attractive to a lot of countries which will lure a Mr Speaker, I was saying that Batswana must become lot of different investors. potential partakers in the economy of Botswana. So we must not be ashamed to nurture them, show them the We will not find ourselves in compromised situations way when they make mistakes so that their businesses just like we experienced recent rainfalls, they caused become a success. There is a Setswana saying, “goo damage to roads more especially in Gaborone and motho go thebe phatshwa” meaning there is no place Gaborone North, there are no roads. Like it was alluded, like home. If a Motswana becomes successful in maybe it was because we were not constructing durable Botswana, if they come from Charleshill or Ncojane, roads so it is now time to start engaging with the private they would want to establish their business there as a sector to build durable developments which we will way of improving their lifestyle. They might also like be proud of in future; developments which when our to expand their business elsewhere in Botswana. This children find in future, they can acknowledge that the means, they are going to continue to generate more 12th Parliament made good changes which will still be income and create jobs in the process, which we need. used in future as the foundation is of high quality. So Honourable Minister, I think that if you can promote I believe we have to introspect ourselves as we assess such partnerships as Minister of Finance and Economic these things Honourable Matsheka. I know that Development, you will be fostering the brighter future Honourable Serame`s ministry is in the process of of Botswana. coming up with laws which deals with our quest to encourage Batswana to venture into businesses, as well The other issue we should discuss Mr Speaker concerns as train them on that regard. We have to discuss these all the financial enterprises which fund Batswana things with Batswana and bear in mind that we should to establish businesses. These enterprises should be have those who exercise ‘mind set shift’ or shifting from encouraged not to be funded because I am overly how they have been thinking or executing their ideas concerned by the ‘in the matter between’ cases we see as Batswana. We have to shift from claiming that we at the banks. There has to be monitoring in terms of the are poor yet choosy, or being jealous of others, where business performance and what one can do to make the

Hansard No 201 17 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

business generate profit. What have they done to show to maintain or annihilate the infrastructure. So we end that they tried to uplift the business because you will up having poor quality products if we continue to adopt find that the poor people, a person might have a good this model. Perhaps one might ask for an example. I can initiative but due to lack of mentoring he/she ends up certainly give an example about the A1 road; if we want losing everything, their property being repossessed. I to construct A1 road to connect Botswana so that people hope that as you add clauses to the law which will help can easily travel from south to north then adopt the these enterprises not to only charge people, there should Kazungula and Mohembo design by ensuring that A1 be some grace period/attempts to uplift them when their has open lanes, a very high quality road, there should businesses are taking a knock. be a lot of money invested. Next year we can construct other roads because if we do not do that Mr Speaker, The other point I want to say Mr Speaker is that there are we are going to be forced to repair the road as we are many Batswana youth so we have to give them a chance. currently doing. For example; Ramotswa dual carriage We should not think that just because their age is 18 years from Gaborone was recently constructed, those who or 20 years they are still young, we should know that know might be aware that one road is closed, it is not this is the age when they are most active. Honourable even a year old but it is already being repaired. It means Rakgare I know that you are making tremendous efforts from the onset this project quality was not a priority. Mr to encourage youth to partake in different programmes. Speaker, if we continue adopting this same model we Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA) will be regressing rather than progressing. and other enterprises have programmes tailor made for I want to now talk about Gaborone North constituency the youth. Since they are a bit slow we should encourage which I believe has a representative by the name of them and link them to already established businesses so Mpho Balopi… that at the end of the day they can learn from them in order to have a young and vibrant business community HONOURABLE MEMBER: Hello! as Batswana in future. MR BALOPI: …it has a lot of problems; which I think The other issue that I want us to address concerning the you know that recently Council allocated plots to people constituency Honourable Matsheka, I have talked about who long applied in Gaborone in 1990. Mr Speaker, the quality of infrastructure. Mr Speaker, I think the then we have people who purchased their plots. We time has come to review development implementation. know and understand that by the time they purchased If the money is not enough to implement developments them, they were purchasing what is commonly called this year, we cannot distribute a lot of developments freehold such as Gaborone North Farms. Mr Speaker, in order to satisfy everyone in all 57 constituencies. the question now is, as we speak, there are close to 2 We should discuss what we can do which can quickly 700 households plus or minus at Gaborone North on generate revenue for the country and benefit it, rather average, multiplying about three or four you will see than our old model. We should do that. that people residing there have reduced the burden from the Government as they are no longer in the waiting Mr Speaker...(Interruptions)... list of applicants seeking land in Gaborone. These are HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kablay! Kablay! people who are working in Gaborone, they are proper stakeholders in the economy of the country. We should MR BALOPI: Parliament network is a problem; it is start catering for them looking at our land tenure system. showing completely different things. We are disciplining children on television now. Honourable Mzwinila should see how he can meet these people halfway in terms of providing for them …Silence… with roads, proper water supply and so on. We should MR BALOPI: Okay! I think the sound is now back. know that they should also be proper stakeholders to the economy of Botswana although there are clauses Mr Speaker, we should know that if we continue using in the Act but the issue is that we should review and this model for developments where we distribute see how we can accommodate them to partake in our them to all constituencies, if a person wants a hospital developments. Mr Speaker, there are no internal roads in or another person wants a road, we deliver, we are all the wards starting from Ledumang, Marapoathutlwa, going to end up within a short period of time having Block 10, Tsogang, Tsholofelo, Marang East and the

18 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

storm water drainage is a challenge. I believe there the workers’ unions, workers and entrepreneurs. In the should be a master plan of reticulation of storm water end, we should find a permanent solution because you drainage in Gaborone and good internal roads because cannot force someone to have money they are not able this is the city of Botswana. If we do not do that Mr to make. Also when there is a programme we should... Speaker, good investors who are interested in investing in this country will lose that interest. MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MS SERAME): Point of clarification. I want to also talk about issues which were raised Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable Balopi, on that regarding sugar tax that people are being oppressed point of provision of infrastructure, the issue that you and so on. We all agreed that we want to be a healthy were talking about that as Government we should nation, that was our goal for Vision 2016 and we also review how we provide infrastructure even at places set the same goal for Vision 2036. I implore Honourable like Gaborone North, because there are signs that are Members start encouraging Batswana to live a good there like the fact that they can provide electricity, and life, a healthy life, which will reduce their chances of let me ask if you meant the ones like Botswana Power contracting some diseases that when we look at diseases Corporation (BPC) and that will the residents there like COVID-19…we saw that in most cases people pay at a cost? So do you mean utilities like water and like that ended up dying rapidly because they had other others can be able to be provided at those places because underlying conditions they were living with which the some of those people are saying that as Government we health professionals associate with our lifestyle, or should assist by providing services and they will pay? they affect us based on our lifestyles. We should start Do you mean that is something that is not possible, and addressing this issue seriously and stop taking things for it has been happening and that others could learn from granted that people are prevented from drinking tea, and them? Thank you. this and that, like my friend Honourable Nkawana was saying. We should address these issues seriously so that MR BALOPI: You are right Honourable Serame. That is what I am saying that, the way it is already happening… people can understand we are a leadership that wishes (Inaudible)…at cost they should also form groups and them good health. We are a leadership that wishes its Government can also be involved and see how it can people a great future, so that we can grow and develop assist them, in that they can have easy payment options into a strong and healthy nation. so that they can be able to have good accommodation and roads. I am going to speed up Mr Speaker because So Mr Speaker, I think that some of these things are the same as the things that were implemented in the past time is already not on my side. I was saying we will with the aim of reducing or to make people realise that try by all means to continue talking to workers’ unions, doing some things is not good for them. So sometimes entrepreneurs and the Government to see what we can when you are a responsible Government, you have to do to resolve this problem of lack of payment which show them that there are effects when you get into other is affecting a lot of people, so that others can follow things... also he should be honest that things like sugar the right procedures of issues of employment and issues and maize meal were not mentioned. We know that like that. They are issues that consultation can resolve, when some things are taxed, there are some products that it is not only to come here and be angry and argue but Honourable Matsheka often says, no these ones cannot that is the only way we can solve them, and we are all be taxed because they are used on a daily basis. There intending to do that. are soft drinks and other products with added artificial sweeteners, it is a sugar that is used for flavoring, but it In conclusion Mr Speaker, I want to talk about has a disadvantage that it can make people sick in future. education. Honourable Molao was presenting how the So when we address these issues Honourable Member education results went yesterday. I want to say that if the we should address them seriously because Batswana are cooperation between parents, teachers and students is a nation that we want to grow healthy and strong. good, and all the community leaders, Magosi, Members of Parliament, and Councilors are collaborating on their Moving on Honourable Member, the workforce of the children’s education, the results will improve. I am country has been greatly affected because even the saying this Mr Speaker because in Gaborone North six employers were affected by the economy. So as the primary schools, the average pass mark of Gaborone Ministry of Labour, we are determined that we will see North is 83.37 per cent, number one being at 96.3 per what should be done with discussions, consultation with cent, and the lowest being at 75.2 per cent. What was

Hansard No 201 19 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

encouraged from 2014/2015 is partnerships like those of MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molale, can you switch Adopt-a-school, whereby Councillors collaborated with on your video. entrepreneurs at that time that they will join hands in MR MOLALE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Firstly, Mr helping the people. I want to praise all those people and Speaker, our connection this side is not stable, so it the teachers just like Honourable Minister Molao was keeps going on and off. I request that if that happens also praising them, for doing a great job in Gaborone you should keep on reminding me to repeat myself North, ensuring that children have a better future. I where there was a break-up of connection and I was not want to specially praise Motswedi Community Junior audible. Secondary School which is number 10 in Botswana for Thank you Mr Speaker, I also stand here to support the the first time in history, because they set themselves Motion by Honourable Minister Thapelo Matsheka, a target and we cooperated in the area to achieve that the Budget for 2021/22 presentation. Let me start by target. The School Head there Mrs Mpho Lesego, all saying I support this Motion, as it shows that it was well teachers and parents, I commend you for doing that, thought of, you took time to consult, and it is also in because... line with the Economic Recovery and Transformation HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. Plan (ERTP) the one we approved not so long ago as Parliament. I am saying this because, when plans are MR BALOPI: That is our seed which in future will be… made they should be followed. We follow them in a way (Inaudible)…be useful to us. Who wants clarification that will assist us to realise that it is not that everything when the time is up? can be done at the same time, but when you make plans, you make them so that you keep on looking at them to HONOURABLE MEMBER: It is me my brother’s go forward, which is called achieving your goals. child. I also agree with Honourable Matsheka when he says, MR MOATLHODI: Point of clarification. Thank you after we did what we were doing, thinking that now Honourable Speaker. I thank Honourable Minister, and we are moving forward, then there was an issue of the I commend him for the good results which remind me of pandemic affecting us. I want to focus on the virus for the Tonota schools. Honourable Member, let me request a few minutes Mr Speaker. I would like to mention a with everyone listening, we request for three schools to few points to show how far we have come in the fight be adopted at Tonota. Thank you sir. against this virus. You can recall that at Boipuso Hall …Silence… when Government presented strategies of how this virus could be fought, there were doubting Thomases, whom MR SPEAKER: I will give the floor to Honourable some of them said this virus is just a fallacy, that there Molale, who will be followed by Honourable Mmolotsi. is no such a virus. His Excellency the President begged, he pleaded and called people to order, doing everything MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND to try to show that... RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): Thank you Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Is my hand showing that “EXCHANGE OF SPEAKERSHIP” I have raised it that side Mr Speaker, or is it technology? MR SPEAKER (MR PULE): Good afternoon MR MOLALE: Honourable Ramogapi keep quiet, I Honourable Members. Procedure Honourable Molale. am talking sir... DR GOBOTSWANG: On a point of procedure Mr MR RAMOGAPI: I am just asking because Speaker. Thank you Mr Speaker. I heard Honourable technicality… (Inaudible)…I mean that is there any Molale saying there were doubting Thomases when problem Mr Speaker? I am not trying to be funny there was a debate on the State of Emergency, who said Honourable Speaker. there was no virus, saying it is just nonsense. I do not know where he is getting that from because it is not MR SPEAKER: No, it is showing. true. I request him to withdraw those words because he MR RAMOGAPI: Okay, thank you sir. knows they are not true Mr Speaker.

20 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molale, please continue. I MR NKAWANA: Thank you Mr Speaker. Is it do not regard that as a point of procedure. parliamentary for Honourable Molale to call other Members of Parliament doubting Thomases? Please MR MOLALE: I thank you Mr Speaker. I do not know guide us there Mr Speaker, is it parliamentary? what Honourable Gobotswang is worried about if he did not say anything. Why is he uncomfortable? Before I MR SPEAKER: I have ruled against that. A doubting can continue, let me point out that Honourable Tshere Thomas means someone who believes after seeing. I is one of the opposition Members of Parliament whom do not think that is a derogatory statement. It is what when this virus came about, he stood his ground and he we are used to, to refer to people who believe after seeing. If he had said ‘people who only believe after was very consistent in saying this virus has to be fought seeing,’ I do not know what you were going to think. A all the time as much as possible. Let me thank him for Thomas is someone who believes after seeing. I do not the fact that he was very consistent in his messaging. He see anything faulty about that statement. Honourable was very forthright that this virus is not something to be Molale, go ahead. messed around with. MR MOLALE: I did not hear what Honourable As I proceed Mr Speaker, most of the ramifications Nkawana said. of this virus came because we did not take care of MR SPEAKER: Honourable Kekgonegile. ourselves. We were not cautious despite the fact that His MR KEKGONEGILE: Thank you Mr Speaker. I am Excellency the President spoke at length, all the time, asking for clarification from Honourable Molale. frequently that we should wash our hands, exercise social distancing and that we should wear masks. Not MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molale said he did not get adhering to these COVID protocols has brought us to what Honourable Nkawana said. Honourable Molale, is where we are now. Besides those protocols, it seems there any problem with your communication somehow? some people think Government has not done anything. MR MOLALE: Mr Speaker at the beginning I said… That has to teach us something as Batswana that when we are given guidelines, especially when they are given MR SPEAKER: Honourable Nkawana stood on a point by leaders like President Masisi, they should be adhered of procedure asking whether it was parliamentary for an to. Honourable Member of the House to say, ‘people are Thomases.’ I then said my interpretation is that a Thomas Mr Speaker it is very painful because some of the is someone who believes after seeing. At least I mean it doubting Thomases tested positive for this virus. We are from a biblical interpretation. Therefore, I do not see not saying we are happy about that. We are saying they anything wrong for someone to say you are a Thomas. caught the virus and it showed them that it is indeed the It is a familiar statement that is used conventionally that if someone only believes after seeing they are virus is there. I believe they have learned something, so referred to as being a Thomas. That is how I understand in future when it is said, ‘passop’... it. Therefore, there is nothing unprocedural about it to MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molale, there is be honest, unless maybe the seniors like PPP could tell Honourable Nkawana. us whether it is unparliamentary or not. Honourable Molale, Honourable Kekgonegile is standing on a point MR NKAWANA: I am standing on a point of order. of clarification. Are you yielding for him or not? HONOURABLE MEMBER: I would also like to say MR MOLALE: I am not yielding for him Mr Speaker. something Mr Speaker. They have been debating and we did not interrupt them. We do not have time. MR SPEAKER: PPP, please request to speak virtually, do not interrupt like that. Honourable Nkawana, what MR SPEAKER: Go ahead Honourable Molale. point are you standing on? Honourable Molale, there is Honourable Yandani Boko as well, but I am not sure which point he is rising on. Let MR NKAWANA: Point of order or procedure. I am not us hear him out. quite sure where it falls between the two. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Did you not see me MR SPEAKER: Let us hear what you have to say. RraNeo?

Hansard No 201 21 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

MR SPEAKER: Yes, I will come to you PPP. I am I do not know what is wrong with that. Can you allow taking you sequentially. him to go on and not waste time.

MR MOLALE: Mr Speaker I believe you have stopped HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)... my time. MR SPEAKER: No, Honourable Boko… MR SPEAKER: Yes Honourable Member. Honourable Yandani Boko, what point are you standing on? HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)...

MR BOKO: Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)... am rising on a point of order. Mr Speaker I wish you MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molale, can you go ahead. could pay close attention to what I will say, that another Member, Honourable Nkawana had risen on a point of MR MOLALE: Thank you Mr Speaker. When this procedure against the vile words which were said by virus started, BDP Government took action. We always Honourable Eric Molale that ‘some,’ and by this some read articles or hear people saying that funds were used he was referring to the Members of Parliament in this but they do not know what those funds were used on... House, were dismissing this disease... MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molale, Honourable PPP MR MOLALE: Mr Speaker, there is nothing pertaining is raising his hand. I can also see Honourable Leuwe’s to order there. He is just wasting my time. hand. Let us hear what Honourable PPP is saying.

MR BOKO: Mr Speaker this is what I meant that MR MOATLHODI: Procedure. Thank you Mr sometimes when I speak, the old man interrupts me. Speaker. I have made it my mission Mr Speaker, to see Mr Speaker, when the Honourable Minister says some to your success on that chair and I am serious about were ‘dismissing,’ referring to Members of Parliament, he is misleading the nation because there is no one it. I do not want Dr Masupu or Professor Mosepele to who denied or doubted the existence of this virus, come and humiliate you in front of us for not observing that is why they were isolated at Avani without any COVID-19 protocols. Ever since last time, when you resistance, it is because they knew the virus was there switch positions with your senior at 16:00 hours, you amongst us. Mr Speaker, it is very necessary for him always violate COVID-19 protocols. I am begging you to withdraw those words because our children who are Mr Speaker, let us observe COVID-19 protocols, please. coming from behind will read about these things and perceive that some Members of Parliament were not in MR SPEAKER: So you are standing on a point one accord when it came to the fight against COVID-19, of procedure? Honourable, we discussed this issue but we were in agreement that the virus is there and it yesterday, I do not know if it was not clear you. We is dangerous. Therefore, can you call him to order Mr agreed that since the Honourable Members are in their Speaker and ask him to withdraw those words because offices, the assumption is that they are alone... it taints other Members of Parliament, yet he knows very well that what he is saying is not true. Mr Speaker MR MOLALE: Mr Speaker, I hope the clock is frozen. address this matter. MR SPEAKER: No, we froze the clock. Because they are alone, our assumption is that we have already MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, I told you that observed the COVID-19 protocols. Which means that if for someone to make a statement that some Members any Honourable Member wants to take a health break, a of Parliament did not support...even you Honourable cup of tea or to go to the bathroom, he can do that there Boko, you cannot tell me that you are sure that all of in his office. We agreed that we should not waste time us supported this. The virus was still new and everyone because already we do not have time. Let us use this had his or her own doubts. I believe that Honourable time profitably because our days are about to elapse. I Molale is not wrong to say some people did not support thought that we had agreed, so I do not know if we did this. It is how he viewed it, so he is not out of order, not understand each other somewhere. We talked about strictly speaking he is not out of order. He is making a it yesterday... statement, which I believe is based on his views, just like you have your own views. Your view is that all of HONOURABLE MEMBER: I heard you Mokgatla, us supported, but his view is some of us did not support. let me go.

22 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

MR SPEAKER: So we are not taking the 30 minutes MR SPEAKER: I was saying that Honourable Leuwe’s physical break that we have been taking, we took that hand is up, I do not know if he wants us to notice him break because we were in the same room. We wanted to or what? go outside to observe that health break moment. MR MOLALE: …(Inaudible)…there is 1.3 billion… MR MOLALE: Thank you Mr Speaker. This is … (Inaudible)… programmes to relieve people, assisting HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker… people amidst allegations that funds are misused, funds MR SPEAKER: Honourable Leuwe, is there something are stolen and that funds have been laundered by certain you want to say? people... MR LEUWE: Elucidation. Thank you, I have a problem MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molale? with how Honourable Molale is being interrupted. You covered the point that I wanted to raise, the point MR MOLALE: Sir? that some people opposed. What I have noticed about MR SPEAKER: I saw Honourable Motaosane raising gentlemen who have been saying that many people did not oppose this is that they just want to expose names his hand, but he has put it down again. Honourable of others because there are clips showing people saying Motaosane! there is no virus. I plead that they should let this go MR MOLALE: …(Inaudible)... and let us generalise like Honourable Molale is stating what some people said. Let us not victimise others by MR SPEAKER: I was saying that Honourable exposing their names. Clips are there, the Hansard is Motaosane is raising his hand, but he has put it down, so also there as for reference. If they want evidence, it can I do not know if he is still rising on any point. be presented. I plead that we should not ask for evidence and map a way forward. Thank you Mr Speaker. MR MOTAOSANE: Procedure. Thank you. I did not hear you when you addressed this issue yesterday but MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable. Honourable it will not be right because it means that if Honourable Molale. Molale debates when I want to go out, or when I want MR MOLALE: Thank you Mr Speaker. P1.3 billion to refresh with a cup of tea, I will not hear him. The 30 was allocated to Industry Support Fund, and even up to minutes break should be mandatory so that we refresh date, Batswana are still being assisted. P23 million was and come back to listen to the debate attentively. It will issued out, and out of that P23 Million, P16 million was not be right for them to debate in our absence. Thank released towards the creative sectors under Ministry of you sir. Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development. At my ministry, funds were released towards food HONOURABLE MEMBER: Seconded. hampers and some funds were allocated to maintenance MR SPEAKER: Since we are passed it, why do we not of schools under Ministry of Basic Education. A lot of carry on with the debate and correct it tomorrow, so that funds were released and it can be accounted for, no one we discuss it. Those who are able to excuse themselves can say that funds were misused or that people kept it to to have a cup of tea and other things, please go ahead themselves. No those are just baseless arguments. These and do that or ask those around you that side to bring things are there, one shocking thing is that there are you tea. Honourable Molale, go ahead. allegations that people kept money to themselves and that funds were misused but even the Constitution does MR MOLALE: Mr Speaker… not allow anyone to take funds without the approval of this Parliament. It is shocking and embarrassing to hear MR SPEAKER: Honourable Leuwe is also raising his people saying what they always say. What I want to say hand. is that these funds... (Inaudible)…from somewhere. MR MOLALE: There were reliefs amidst allegations When this pandemic started…(Inaudible)…as well. We that the government is keeping funds and people do not have to start thinking about where we are going to get know where those funds are and no one can account for funds if there is no diamond trade. That is why Minister it. Batswana are aware that they were assisted and the Matsheka is considering that even though our tax is the government continues to assist them... lowest in the region, we should increase it a little so that

Hansard No 201 23 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

we can …(Inaudible)… and then he talks in Parliament HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, my hand is as if he is at the freedom square… up, we are wasting time.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure Mr MR SPEAKER: Is there anybody who can contact Speaker. him?

MR SPEAKER: Can you raise your hand virtually. …Silence…

MR MOLALE: …(Inaudible)… he will gain weight … HONOURABLE MEMBER: Molale is visible Mr Speaker, talk to him. MR SPEAKER: That is Honourable Reatile. Honourable Reatile, procedure. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molale!

MR MOLALE: …(Inaudible)… paragraph 134… MR MOLALE: Mr Speaker!

MR REATILE: Yes, Mr Speaker, Honourable Molale is HONOURABLE MEMBER: Let us proceed Mr having a challenge here, technology is working against Speaker. him. As I speak, he cannot hear us that side, he is just MR SPEAKER: Honourable Ramogapi, wait. You speaking and he continues to explain while we cannot always say people are pestering me, but nowadays you hear him. There is too much echo, he keeps cutting, are the one who pester me. Honourable Molale. what can be done Mr Speaker? Can you not ask him to debate later when his network has improved and give to MR MOLALE: Mr Speaker. someone audible to debate because Honourable Molale MR SPEAKER: Can we give you a break so that we is not audible at all and he cannot hear us Mr Speaker? can fix our system? You are left with 20 minutes 44 seconds. You will continue when you are ready, maybe MR SPEAKER: You are quite right Honourable Reatile later today or tomorrow because Honourable Members because this is also a challenge to us. We had sent cannot hear you at all and I also have a challenge. some technicians to go and help him. It seems he has a challenge. He is left with 20 minutes 44 seconds, maybe MR MOLALE: I agree. we can stop him and find somebody to debate so that after fixing his fault, he can then continue. Honourable MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Molale, do you hear me? Member. Honourable Mmolotsi, the floor is yours.

…Silence… LEADER OF THE MINORITY (MR MMOLOTSI): Thank you Mr Speaker. I want to take this opportunity to HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is not audible Mr firstly thank God with everything in me. I want to thank Speaker, I am ready, let me debate. him that he has still preserved Batswana and Botswana. We pray that God grants us health and take control of MR SPEAKER: No, not you. the situation that we are facing of COVID-19. ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL Allow me to take this time to thank my party President GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT Mr Gaolathe, leadership and all party members for (MR AUTLWETSE): Mr Speaker, we have a problem the immense support they give me all the time when this side, none of us is audible. Do you hear me? I inform Batswana on what they denied themselves HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are not audible. during elections when they did not give us a chance to lead this country. MR SPEAKER: I hear you. Honourable Molale, can you retreat, maybe we will give you your slot tomorrow; I want to take this opportunity to thank the voters of 20 minutes 44 seconds after finding the right service? Francistown South who made it possible for me to be here as a voice of the nation in matters which are totally HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, we did not different from what the ruling party is saying. hear him even in that six minutes. Mr Speaker, I want to take this moment to remember MR SPEAKER: Wait Honourable Lesaso. those whom we loved but left us. I want to take this time

24 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

to remember Mr Sebati Sebati of Maun who left us last Several times we have requested that one of the clinics in week. I also remember Mr Philip Butale of Francistown Francistown South, either Masego Clinic or Lapologang South and Ms Uyapo Mokgopo who was a nurse in Clinic operate 24 hours so that my constituents would Francistown. I also remember Ms Patricia Kabelo who not be forced to go and seek health services at night at was staying in my constituency driving an ambulance Honourable Moswaane`s or Honourable Buti Billy’s and Ms Tebbie Setlhomo who is well known to all of us. constituencies. She released albums that you danced to a lot that side. It was indicated in the previous plan that Francistown Lastly, I remember Major David Bright who changed District Hospital project will commence in 2021. From the status and complexion of football in Botswana. May the current plans, I cannot seem to locate that hospital the souls of these heroes rest in peace. May God comfort project. The country must know that despite the immense their families. population of Francistown, we do not have a hospital. The Nyangabgwe Hospital in Francistown is a referral Mr Speaker, on a positive note, I want to take this that covers the entire North of the country. That is why opportunity to congratulate schools in my constituency; most of the time it is full with some patients sleeping on Montsamaisa and Goldmine Junior Secondary the floor because Francistown on its own does not have Schools which performed well in Junior Certificate a hospital to service its residents. Examinations(JCE). Montsamaisa JSS took position one in the region. I think they take after me as their We have requested that Francistown should have a Member of Parliament when it comes to performing programme similar to SPEDU in Phikwe, which can exceptionally well. I want to applaud their former be dubbed Francistown Economic Diversification Unit School Head Mr Ntaise and all school staff who worked which can be responsible for seeking investors to create together to achieve this performance. I am thankful that special jobs for Francistown residents because just like their former School Head, Mr Ntaise has been promoted Phikwe residents, we had a challenge, the mines which to be a School Head at Francistown Senior Secondary we depended on got closed. That is why we are asking School. in that manner.

I also want to thank Ms Keagile of Goldmine Junior Francistown Customary Court was included in the Secondary School which is number 8 in the region out previous National Development Plan (NDP), it was of 23 schools. I want to applaud her and the staff for that to be built in Phase 4. We have reserved a portion of excellent performance. land there for this purpose. So right now, we do not I want to also thank all the primary schools in my know where this building disappeared to because it was constituency because they contribute to performance that included there. we see in secondary schools. Phatsimo Primary School, Mahube Primary School, Phase 4 and Moremogolo Minister, we are grateful because Nata-Francistown continue with an excellent performance. I applaud them, road is included in our current plan. If we are going to God will reward them. maintain this road through Public Private Partnerships (PPPs), I am worried because it is going to delay. If Mr Speaker, I rise to respond to the Minister of Finance’s Government is intending to partner with Batswana or speech. I am concerned because for a long time I have give them tenders to implement these projects, let us asked Government to implement certain plans which ensure that we implement them in a short period of time were in previous development plans which could be because we are going to have problems if they take long. developing Francistown. We might wait for maintenance of this road for 20 years, but if you consider Francistown-Nata road, it has steep We have long requested the Minister to turn either and dangerous potholes, especially now that that we are Montsamaisa or Goldmine in Francistown South into experiencing rainfall. an integrated school that will start from Form 1 to Form 5 so that students do not need to go and ask for I would like to take this opportunity to commend admission in a school in another constituency. It seems health care officials for making great efforts since the the Minister has not approved that. We are requesting outbreak of COVID-19. They tried their best to ensure you to turn one of the junior secondary schools into an that contact tracing is done. Right now, they seem to integrated secondary school. be overwhelmed because contacts are self-isolating and

Hansard No 201 25 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

waiting to be tested at their homes. No one is going there visit their patients thereafter. This is going to ensure to test them. At the end of the day, if they keep calling, that these patients are cared for accordingly. We know after 15 days, they are told that “no, you have recovered, that rapid tests may sometimes not be accurate. So we your isolation period is over.” This alone indicates that have to encourage them to observe protocols such that the system is already overwhelmed. If that is not the if a mistake was done during testing, where a relative case, we have to come up with strategies to address this is positive, we would be able to minimise the spread of issue. I am saying this because management of contacts this virus. That is our request. is no longer as effective as it was before. People who are on quarantine at Matsiloje are suffering Mr Speaker, let us ensure that health care officials do from hunger. Moreover, people restricted from visiting this job accordingly. People who are quarantined at the and offering them food. Apart from that, those who are hotels and guest houses are running short of food. So, on quarantine at Matsiloje are those who tested positive Government decided to pay those hotels and lodges an at the hospital and were sent there. They are not given a amount of P500. This P500 covers breakfast, lunch and chance to take some of the things which they may need supper bills. It is paid for someone who use water and at home; things like toiletry and others. That is why you electricity the whole day and at night. For this reason, will find some patients using their shirts and t-shirts as P500 is a very small amount which these people cannot bath towels at Matsiloje. This is something which health use to support their businesses. We will be destroying care officials have to address. their businesses if we do that. So Mr Speaker, I believe Government will rectify this. As the Minister gave the budget speech, Batswana expected it to be sufficient enough to address all the Mr Speaker, dealing with COVID-19 created great challenges of this pandemic because it is the pillar of shortage in our hospitals, at Nyangabgwe, Masunga, everything right now. Parliament requires thorough Tutume and others. The nurses who worked in these consultation before releasing enough funds to address hospitals are on quarantine at Matsiloje and other our needs. This can only be done if the speech gives a hospitals. This thing caused shortage in our hospitals list of all that we need to fight against this pandemic. which also created problems for us. As a result, We have long been independent in our country in terms Government has restricted relatives of these patients of meeting our needs and providing those that require from visiting them. But if relatives were permitted to our immediate attention. It is clear that we delayed this visit them; they assisted in terms of helping them to time around. That is why other countries managed to bath, giving them diabetes and high blood medication. get vaccines before us. So we have to go back to that They also assisted with other things which are required time where it was known that in Africa, Botswana is one by a patient as well as offering emotional support. So of the countries which are good at dealing with issues if we restrict relatives from visiting them like we have which require our immediate attention. We are upsetting done, since we are short staffed, it means that we have a Batswana if we let that spirit fade away. Batswana are problem of patients who are on quarantine. Proper care aware that our economy has been independent from is not offered to them. Some of them lose their lives way back, so they expected Botswana to get the vaccine before their time, simply because nurses are unable to before other countries. Failure to do that is an indication offer some of the things which they need. This is where that their current leaders are very relaxed in terms of some of these patients are unable to take their medication giving immediate attention to these kinds of issues. even though it has been offered to them. Some fail to eat Batswana are very worried to hear that we spent most even though food has been given to them. At the end of of the money that we have in Government Investment the day, it means diabetes patients end up losing their Account in a period of 10 months. They are worried lives because of hunger than COVID-19, which is the because no one is accounting for how this money was reason why they went to the hospital. used. We complained much on the basis that the State Mr Speaker, Government must come up with a plan of Emergency (SOE) gives the President all the powers. through which relatives are permitted to continue to In that manner, there is no transparency concerning visit their patients. I am saying this because offering how things are done. Minister, in April, you explained emotional support to a patient may help them to recover. that you spent more than P2.4 billion to procure health My suggestion is, let us try to do rapid tests. Let us test necessities including Personal Protective Equipment close relatives as soon as possible and permit them to (PPE) and other things. Right now, you have not given

26 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

us a clear report on that. That is why many Honourable shops, mechanics and those selling vegetables by the Members continue to complain that you have not roadside P1 000 to revitalise their businesses, when has accounted for what this money was used for. P1 000 ever revitalised a business?

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mmolotsi! We should use this period to draft a solid economic plan, change project implementation and delivery and MR MMOLOTSI: Mr Speaker… prioritise high impact projects. Mr Speaker, the economy MR SPEAKER: I see Honourable Yandani Boko’s of this country needs to be built, it cannot build itself. hand. Honourable Boko, what point are you rising on? Furthermore, as a country, we cannot continue to spend money without coming up with a way to generate it. MR BOKO: Clarification Mr Speaker. I raised it when the Member of Parliament (MP) started. Should I Mr Speaker, Government should take this opportunity proceed? to upgrade digitisation. We realised that although people are encouraged to work from home, it is impossible MR MMOLOTSI: I believe it is already late. because there is no reliable network. The reason I am MR BOKO: It is late. on the floor now is because Honourable Molale failed to debate due to network problems but we want to deliver MR SPEAKER: Go ahead Honourable Mmolotsi. our services. We have to seriously upgrade the network so that we can improve service because businesses can MR MMOLOTSI: Batswana are wondering where operate better under those circumstances. this money disappeared to because you failed to give a report of what this P2.4 billion was used for. If the Corona hit at a time when our health sector was crippled, Minister believes that this money was not mismanaged, now it has completely annihilated us. Mr Speaker, the you must give the nation that report. If you visit clinics, immediate action we have to undertake is to review our you will find that our ventilators have not increased. As plans and start afresh. Not only in the health sectors; all we speak, we have Ntshe clinic which is accommodating sectors more especially public administration, revenue COVID-19 patients at Francistown but it does not have collection and improving education. COVID-19 found a single ventilator. One would expect you to get at least us in a bad state and it made things worse. one ventilator with this P2.4 billion. There are more than 100 patients at Matsiloje but there is no ventilator. The Government should ask itself how it can fix the If a patient has asthma attack, it means they are going crooked system because it is a problem in the country. to die before arriving at Sir Ketumile Masire Hospital We have constantly said this and even gave you a plan (SKMH) where these things are provided. So the on how to build the economy and grow it. At Alliance Minister has to give us a detailed report which accounts for Progressives, we had set a target before we lost for what this money was used for as soon as possible. elections. The target was that in six years the economy will have grown tremendously by 10 per cent every As members of Alliance for Progressives (AP), in March year. This was not just a dream even Asian countries last year, we pointed out that the amount of money referred to as Asian Tigers managed to grow at that rate reserved for our quest to control and minimise the and even more within a short period of time. We can condition of the pandemic is quite small. We reserved learn a lot if we can take the route they undertook, that around 2.5 per cent of the Gross Domestic Product is called benchmarking, it is not copying. (GDP) at the time while other countries reserved around 10 per cent of their GDP because they realised that There is no doubt that the leadership of our country is this disease is going to be difficult to curb. We were relaxed and we are relying on God for a brighter future. saying this after benchmarking from other countries and The Minister of Finance and Economic Development financial experts back then indicated that the economic is unable to indicate a clear source of revenue for the situation will drastically decline. dented economy. There is no clear indication of the changes that Government will implement in order to Minister, the programme you implemented to revitalise revitalise the economy because currently the country businesses more especially small businesses does not is broke. A country with only P5.6 billion in its coffers have much positive impact. One might wonder that if needs intensive initiatives to revitalise. In my opinion, you give small business owners like those with tuck the way we are doing these things is clear that we will

Hansard No 201 27 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

never achieve our goals for the nation’s Vision 2036 to led by the President to donate small stock; maybe that be a high income country. is the only initiative there is to revitalise the agricultural sector. However, it is not clear that this initiative is All economic experts indicated that our economy needs yielding results and it does not have a budget from the to grow at 8 per cent or more every year in order to Government to focus on it. Therefore, there is no clear achieve our goal of being a high income economy. The indication if this initiative will be one of those which Minister shows that he will not be able to drive us to that will revitalise manufacturing and agriculture. high income status. In other words, we have failed to be a high income status, we will never be able to achieve Paragraph 34 which you delivered on last year, you Vision 2036 that we are talking about. said you have established a sub-committee to review parastatals but nothing has been done to date and the In this report, the Minister highlights that the stumbling Minister did not mention it today. block was Corona and there is no truth in what the Minister is saying. For the past 10 years Mr Speaker, At Paragraph 50, the Minister mentioned that by June there is never a time when the economy ever grew at 2020, we will have what is called e-commerce strategy more than 8 per cent and there was no Corona during and to date we are surprised because there is nothing that time. It was due to the programmes of the Botswana being mentioned about the e-commerce strategy we Democratic Party which prohibited this country to grow were promised. At Paragraph 55, you mentioned that at a high rate and if it was a different leadership, they Decentralisation Policy is underway and today there is could have utilised the resources and taken Botswana no mention of it at all. to higher heights more than its current insignificant growth. Paragraph 60, you mentioned that Employment Policy is underway and we are currently waiting; it means the In the Minister’s last year’s report, he said some process is too long. You and the President mentioned in statement which I believe he has forgotten now. He said, Paragraph 65 that you will bring the Citizen Economic “it is not going to be business as usual.” However, we Empowerment (CEE) law, we are astounded to the fact are still seeing things being done in the usual manner. that this law is still not implemented. There is no change, in fact there is no sense of urgency that we are seeing and I think the Minister should You indicated in Paragraph 72 that you will host Forbes seriously consider this. It is disheartening Mr Speaker Under 30 Conference here but perhaps you will say in to see the Minister having lost hope through his report the advent of COVID-19 you were unable to, which is to change this situation. a valid excuse.

Last year, the Minister made a lot of promises and I You have long promised in 2019 that you are going to will indicate some. The disheartening part is that the review the entire Constitution so it is concerning that Minister made these promises, the budget was already the review of this Constitution is now in piecemeal passed and funds were allocated to these projects but approach. It is reviewed whenever there is a clause were never implemented. I disagree with the statements which disadvantages the Botswana Democratic Party, Honourable Balopi alluded earlier that we should know so you want to amend it against the mandate you that some projects are not being implemented because promised Batswana to review the whole Constitution. of the disease. We used only P2.4 billion for this disease For example, the recent Floor Crossing Bill which we and the budget we passed was a lot of money so the could not grasp the base for amending it but it was fear projects should have been implemented or ongoing. that some Members of Parliament might cross over from Botswana Democratic Party to the Opposition parties. The Minister indicated in Paragraph 24 that Government After you passed the Floor Crossing bill of which the will refocus attention to agriculture and manufacturing President boasted that after it is passed he is going to sectors but when you look at the growth of these two sign it but it has been a month without him signing it. sectors there is absolutely no growth. If you add the You go around recruiting people with it as you are doing agriculture and manufacturing budgets, they are less now, however you did not derail us that much. than 5 per cent. During the 2019 elections campaign Mr Speaker, the Mr Speaker, the Minister’s efforts to grow the sectors are President also made some promises which now seem to non-existent. We only see the new President’s initiative be overlooked. Some of those promises are as follows;

28 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

creation of jobs for Batswana, after the elections, the review the Constitution piece by piece, it is not going to President explained that the role of Government is be of any use to us. We need the country to move forward not to create jobs, but to create an environment that is and generate income, and the Constitution should be conducive for creating jobs. That means that the promise the one that begins to build what we wish to do so that the President made to Batswana at that time was futile. the country can be able to improve. We know that this Even right now, it shows that you have completely turned Constitution was implemented many years ago, and it against it because you are explaining that you are going cannot be in line with how we want to do things in the to freeze half of the vacant posts in the next financial current era. If we want to achieve the victory we want year. You have also stated that going forward you will on the economy, we should start by achieving it with not fill the posts of people who are retiring. This means the Constitution of this country. Any transformation that instead of creating jobs like you promised you now strategy that will be implemented without reviewing have to stand up and tell Batswana that we were not Constitution will be fruitless because our foundation is telling the truth, the truth is that we wanted to down size not firm at all. Just take an example with the way the the public service. Budget Speech is made; how do we expect Members of You said you are going to review the Constitution, I have Parliament to respond to the Budget Speech when they talked about that one and you have failed. You said you have just seen it yesterday in Parliament, when they were going to introduce the economic empowerment have no expertise or even employees to assist them to law, you failed. You said you were going to reverse read and respond to the Budget Speech? At Alliance for the oppressive Media Practitioners Act. Member of Progressives (AP), we have said numerous times that Parliament Honourable Keorapetse came with a Motion we need what is called a Parliamentary budget office, not so long ago that this law should be suspended, and which can assist Members of Parliament to understand, we thought that it was going to be simple since it was a interrogate and respond to this Budget Speech. Even promise the President made every day. You also refused to do that. Even right now, you are not saying anything though we have long been advising about this, our about reversing the Media Practitioners Act but you are advices fall on deaf ears. Right now, Parliament should saying we should trust you and that you are an honest have been providing what is called budget priorities, but Government. at the moment we have just received it the way it is, and it is going to be approved the way it is. You said there was going to be a programme of transforming land which was called the transformation The biggest difference between us and other countries strategy, where is it right now? You said you were going Mr Speaker, which are able to conduct their things to fight corruption right now corruption in Botswana properly is leadership. The difference between is evident and it is rampant. Mr Speaker, Honourable successful nations and our own country is leadership. Minister put before us a presentation that is not solid, The quality of leadership Mr Speaker, can bring that does not indicate that we are in a state of emergency amazing differences. Just take Singapore for example, it and we should hurry to implement firm laws for our has managed to come out of the poverty it was engulfed country, to alleviate our people from poverty. To create in in 1965, that is the same year we were also preparing quality jobs, to give our people residential and business to get our independence. Right now Singapore is an icon plots, to strengthen democracy and be an icon of prudent of developments. It is a first world country, while we are economic management. This is not the time for the still here. Minister to be talking about downsizing and rightsizing. Firstly, there is running of the Government Mr Speaker, It is time for the Minister to talk about ways of creating which is called governance. If the leadership does not more jobs in Botswana. understand this, we cannot go anywhere. The President Not so long ago when I responded to the President’s of that country at that time, who was called Lee Kuan State of the Nation Address (SONA), I explained that Yew, had a great vision. The current Government does we cannot transform our economy if we do not focus on not have a vision Mr Speaker. Just take an example of the main relevant issue, of reviewing the Constitution. this speech we are discussing, it talks about short term Reviewing the Constitution Mr Speaker, we do not initiatives, it does not have long-term goals. If that is the mean what you are doing by taking it piece by piece, we case, we will be able to come out of these challenges we mean a comprehensive review of the Constitution. If we are facing if we are this short-sighted.

Hansard No 201 29 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

When I get back to Singapore Mr Speaker, they were able to penetrate the international market? Honourable focused on employing people who were qualified, Minister, when you request for funds, you should capable and had the skills to do the job. That is they indicate how many of those companies you intend to hired the best and the brightest. Not the way our turn into multinationals. Also how you are going to Government is run in Botswana, whereby most of the assist them to reach that status of being multinationals time, one is employed based on what political party you because doing that will bring in revenue and jobs. belong to, and even worse, sometimes you are hired Small scale businesses are facing tough challenges at based on what faction you are from in the ruling party. the moment, especially when we look at the restrictions They set themselves a target at Singapore that they are that are there of lockdowns and curfews. Honourable not going to tolerate corruption in any way. You will not Minister, you were supposed to indicate in your report find leaders of Singapore being implicated in corruption ways in which you are going to assist these companies cases like it is a norm here. We know that in Botswana so that they are resuscitated from the problems they are and in this Parliament, we can have a Minister in the facing, and how much you have put aside to assist them. morning being prosecuted for corruption at court and I do not see that in your speech. in the evening they are here with us in Parliament. In We also said we can develop state-owned enterprises or Singapore only those who concentrate on the job are parastatals, as a start up to building these big companies employed, and they know that it is a job only and they called multinationals. Before... do not have protection of the leadership. They were mainly focusing on building bigger companies. We have MR SPEAKER: Your time is up Honourable Member. said countless times as AP that that is the proper way to MR MMOLOTSI: Thank you Mr Speaker. building a flourishing economy, which can create more jobs and pay decent salaries. In Singapore Mr Speaker, MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Member. let me tell you; someone who is said to be earning less, Honourable Molale, I do not know how far you are to is paid around US$4,000 which is P40, 000 per a month. be able to take the floor but if you are not ready then we It is not impossible that even us in Botswana, can be can call the next...(Inaudible)… able to be in a state like that. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, I am here. When you look at Temasek Company in Singapore, HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, look at the it is a parastatal. It is a company that belongs to the virtual hands. Government, and it makes more than US$100 billion in profits annually and the quality of their products, which MR SPEAKER: Oh! You are quite right; I did not is termed as assets is worth over US$300 billion. The net see your hand. It means you raised it when he was profit of this company is US$10 billion, the equivalence about to finish. I am very sorry about that, I apologise of this company in Botswana Mr Speaker, is Botswana Honourable Member. Development Corporation (BDC) but you know how HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker. its performance and net worth is. These things we are saying about Singapore can happen in Botswana. MR SPEAKER: On what point are you rising on Honourable Segokgo? Mr Speaker, bringing in two multinational companies which make P10 billion in two years, is what we said MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND we can do when we were campaigning for elections, if COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): Mr we were voted into power, we will bring in two of those Speaker, let me explain that I raised my hand after companies in a year, and that we intended to increase he talked about Singapore, it was on clarification, but them to ten companies in one year which will make now he has finished debating. Therefore, it is a bit more than P2 billion in six years. You can see that our unfortunate. vision, could take Botswana out of this trouble instantly. MR SPEAKER: I really apologise as well, I did not Really Mr Speaker, we should focus a lot on developing see your hand…(Inaudible)… Honourable Molale small-scale businesses. One of the pillars we can use where are you, are you ready or we should call the next to measure their growth is to find out how many were Member?

30 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND Minister Matsheka. I support this Budget presentation RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): Let me because I trust Minister Matsheka; I know that he has try again Mr Speaker. dealt with money before. He even taught economics at University of Botswana. The accountants that we have MR SPEAKER: Go ahead Honourable Member, you were taught by Minister Matsheka. Therefore, we know have 20 minutes 44 seconds. that he is handling public finances very well. Let me MR MOLALE: I thank you Mr Speaker. I was still start by appreciating that the Multi Topic Household saying when this pandemic hit, funds were released and Survey is being done, and it is the one that can show it was stated that they were not accounted for. These us that unemployment is growing. Therefore, when funds are the ones that assisted Batswana; industry Minister Matsheka realised that unemployment is support fund, food relief, tourism, for instance... growing, they looked for robust programmes to assist to address this challenge. Programmes like Young Farmers HONOURABLE MEMBER: You were saying people Fund, but I believe that the Multi Topic Household are not audible; you are the one who is inaudible. survey shows that indeed in Kgalagadi North there is serious unemployment, especially among the youth. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molale, I am told your My hope Minister is that, you should take some funds connectivity challenges are still persisting. Maybe I there through this Young Farmers so that unemployment should give you a break until you correct that problem could be reduced. completely. Let me at this juncture call upon Honourable Molebatsi. Now coming to the issue of COVID-19, I would like to profusely thank all the essential service workers and MR MOLALE: Ahh! It has failed! the COVID-19 Taskforce Team...(Interruptions)...We …Silence… have seen that indeed this team is working very hard. We can see that the number of deaths are going down. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Good afternoon Mr Those who have lost their lives through COVID, I Speaker... surrender them before Almighty God. I would like to say to Matsha College in Kang that, God is with you, MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi. since they have been hit by COVID; He will uproot that …Silence… COVID-19 and those students will recover, and they will do well in their examinations. This pandemic has MR SPEAKER: Honourable Talita Monnakgotla, affected global economies. That being the case it means you did not raise your hand. We do not just come in businesses have collapsed, people are losing jobs. Honourable Member. Please raise your hand. Starting from small business to major enterprises, they have been affected. Since Minister Matsheka knows HONOURABLE MEMBER: She wanted to tell you a lot about businesses, I believe the Government will that they have swapped with Honourable Molebatsi. continue looking for programmes to assist especially HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions)… through the Economic Recovery and Transformation Plan (ERTP), so that it would revive the economy. I MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi, you have the am saying the Honourable Minister should keep it up, floor. because indeed he is well versed in finances; and I strongly believe the businesses owned by Batswana that ASSISTANT MINISTER OF TRADE AND have been affected will be assisted. For the economy to INDUSTRY (MR MOLEBATSI): We have swapped improve, the businesses have to thrive, because they are Mr Speaker. the ones which pay those taxes. MR SPEAKER: You want to confuse me now… Now coming to budget implementation, I would oh okay! She was the next one. Alright go ahead like to encourage organisations like the Botswana Honourable Monnakgotla. Fibre Networks (BOFINET) and Botswana MS MONNAKGOTLA (KGALAGADI NORTH): Telecommunications Corporation (BTC) to continue Thank you Mr Speaker. Good afternoon and let me thank reviewing the charges for communications, data pricing. you for this opportunity I have been given to support I am saying this because many people right now,

Hansard No 201 31 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

especially in rural areas have started using technology, Moving on to Paragraph 86 which talks about education, which requires data packaging. Therefore, BTC should the budget presentation indicate that P9.52 billion is consider these things. I do realise that the Government is allocated to the Ministry of Basic Education. This continuing with radio broadcasting coverage expansion, Budget is going to help increase the number of teachers but I would like to say in Kgalagadi North, particularly at and for construction of infrastructure. That on its own, is the settlements, we know there is no radio coverage; but going to reduce unemployment. Graduate teachers who it is very important, especially for the children because have degrees are unemployed, so they are going to be since we once had a lockdown, student were taught via able to have jobs, including builders. Minister, that is a radio lessons. Therefore, I hope as it was reported that good initiative. radio coverage will include Kweneng West, I hope from there it will go to Kgalagadi North. Paragraph 88; health issues. In this budget allocation, I wish to see the nation of Botswana being able to It is embarrassing that at this point in time when the access medication in all clinics and primary hospitals in country is fighting COVID-19, there are still some Botswana, more especially when I talk about settlements. ministries which are not optimally using Government We should not see someone travelling from Ukwi to funds. Let us fix this issue Minister. The speech is even Hukuntsi to go and get pills. This issue is disheartening talking about “value for money.” This situation needs to because failing to take medication well on time can be looked into very much. Let us improve it Honourable reduce the life span of people. This budget presentation Minister. If we could pay close attention to the finances, states that it will pay attention to those things. On health there could be progress. I hope the connection of issues, it is going to ensure that there is availability of Information and Communications Technology (ICT) pills and medicines in clinics. Minister, that would be a in schools will significantly improve the results good development. countrywide, starting from primary, secondary and so forth, particularly at the settlements. This is a good When I move on to Paragraph 89 which talks about Local thing because this issue of shortage of books will be a Government, I am talking about our mother and father. thing of the past. I know that there is no electricity at the I am saying that it is our mother and father because settlements, so when this ICT infrastructure comes, let this ministry starts by raising children, it assists them electricity be connected as well at these settlements, they all the way to the elderly people and people living with should not trail behind because when the results come disabilities. We also know that Village Development out I do not want Kgalagadi North to be at the bottom as Committees (VDCs) falls under this ministry and that the Honourable Minister of Basic Education pointed out it focuses on rural development. We are talking about yesterday that they are at the bottom in the primary and social workers who look after people in rural areas; junior certificate results. It should be ensured that when when things are not going well here and there. this infrastructure is connected here, even in Kgalagadi Amongst all the responsibilities of this ministry, I notice North it should be connected. Electricity should be the how the government is serious about dealing with first thing to be connected because even Information and Gender-Based Violence (GBV) issues. It is indeed great Communication Technology (ICT) requires electricity. news to hear that some funds are going to be allocated When I move on to road infrastructure, the condition to the fight against GBV. When it comes to violence, I of roads in Constituencies like Kgalagadi Constituency am a woman and I stand with the victims of GBV. This is not appeasing, more especially when we go to is painful. It is a good thing that the government realised the settlements. I encourage the government to pay that in all these ministries, attention should be given to attention to the condition of roads in Kgalagadi North, issues pertaining to Gender Based Violence because they should be repaired. You heard Members of Ntlo team work is very effective. I hope that Gender Based ya Dikgosi in their last sitting when they said that it is Violence (GBV) will be reduced in Botswana, more time to construct the Hukuntsi-Tsabong road, as it can especially on children. promote tourism and reduce unemployment. Minister, Paragraph 93; Transport and Communications – when there is a Setswana idiom which says, “mafoko a Kgosi a I talk about this ministry and how it can reduce costs agelwa mosako” which means that when Kgosi speaks, and generate income, the Department of Road Transport people should listen. These things can really boost our and Safety Department should be independent as we tourism at Kgalagadi North. saw the government halting Civil Aviation Authority

32 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

of Botswana (CAAB). Botswana Road Transport be bowsed? Minister, I was hoping to find this project Authority should be established in the near future, that in the Budget Speech, it is one of the things that I was way we will no longer see potholes in our roads. hoping to come across. Anyway, you will look into it as you proceed. We will continue advocating for I heard most Members of Parliament (MPs) complaining them because even former Members of Parliament for about roads and bus ranks, their bus ranks are not in a Kgalagadi North were always singing the same song. good condition. If the government can look into this and Honourable Minister, you need to look into that. establish this Department... I am aware that at this point the government wants to reduce parastatals. Yes, there Still on Budget Speech on agriculture, Government has are some which are not beneficial to the government and indicated that she will try to encourage farmers to take there are some which the government wants to merge. farming as business. That is a good initiative Honourable If the Department of Road Transport and Safety can Minister and you said that in Gantsi, where they are be independent and more roads are constructed then, engaged in potato farming, when their harvest is in the these grievances about roads and bus ranks are going market, you are not going to allow any importation of to come to an end. Minister the Government should potatoes. You are going to ensure that Gantsi potato consider this issue, you are the one who is in charge of farmers sell all their produce. These are good initiatives government funds. For us to say that the government in agriculture which will generate income for the can manage on her own, is impossible. We should see country. My only concern is that the seeds arrived late. I who the government can construct these roads with. wonder when farmers in Kgalagadi are going to plough, when the seeds arrive this late yet Government wants us Paragraph 95; Ministry of Agricultural Development to treat agriculture as a business. When are they going and Food Security- in his budget speech, the Minister to plough because the rainy season is here and it is about indicated that some funds are going to be allocated to to end, what are they going to do? Like we are saying Botswana Meat Commission (BMC) and other facilities. Minister as Government, we should ensure that farmers Minister, I plead that “other facilities” should include are assisted. Phuduhudu Artificial Insemination (AI) at Kang as it does artificial insemination and develops cattle breed at On tourism; the speech indicates that we are going Phuduhudu. That is one of the promises that we would to develop tourism especially in towns. Minister, we appreciate because the government is now relying on understand that but we are saying you should consider the agricultural sector. areas in our constituencies more especially at Phuduhudu where people have long been promised a cultural village. When I move on to Land Management – the budget These things should also be considered as promises to speech indicates that it is going to focus on land allocation people. Even the gateway into the Central Kalahari and land demarcation. I hope that the government will Game Reserve (CKGR) at Kang, it can generate income urgently cater for areas that do not have grazing land, like for our country and resuscitate economy… Kgalagadi North. Last time Honourable Brooks talked about this issue, that the government should consider HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. areas that do not have grazing land. We appreciate that in this presentation, the Minister realised there are no MR SPEAKER: You have not raised your hand. grazing lands at Kgalagadi North. That is one of the HONOURABLE MEMBER: My hand is up Sir. Mr great developments at Kgalagadi North. Speaker, are we quorated?

I am now moving on to the Development Budget. MR SPEAKER: Let us check. Are we quorated? At the Ministry of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services, funds are still being utilised; water …Silence… is connected in other constituencies. As a woman and HONOURABLE MEMBER: I am here TK. a Member of Parliament (MP) for Kgalagadi North, I am hurt that nothing was said about water connection HONOURABLE MEMBER: He wants to see us TK. from Ncojane Wellfield to Macheng Villages. This has hurt me because there is no water at Macheng. We are MR SPEAKER: Just hold on, we are still counting. Do supplied with water from Kang. Our population is 15 not worry we have stopped the clock. Thank you T.K. 000, and the question is, for how long are we going to for that intervention.

Hansard No 201 33 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

HONOURABLE MEMBER: He wanted to get that needs to be applauded. The residents of Jwaneng, serious. Sekoma, Mabutsane, Kokong, Keng and Khakhea will find employment. These are some of Government’s HONOURABLE MEMBER: Thank you Mr Speaker. efforts to reduce unemployment and it is quite HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is the last person to commendable. They should be advised to register with intervene. Labour office so that they can get employment.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Where has TK been? I fully support Dr Matsheka’s speech and I request that you look into the expenditure of these funds. Look into HONOURABLE MEMBER: Where is he coming it Minister, funds need to be used prudently because from, this is the first time he came to Parliament. income generation has dwindled. There is another thing that I cannot stop talking about. That is corruption, HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, I do it should be condemned strongly because income not know how you do the counting. Apologies for generation is very low. This can uplift our economy and intervening this way. You could be asking people to Batswana who want to venture into business should be raise hands virtually. encouraged to do so. Even those who are selling sweets should not be impatient because businesses start small MR SPEAKER: The Clerk’s table is counting. and grow as time goes on. With those few remarks Mr Honourable Segokgo, do you want to say something? Speaker, I thank you. The Honourable Minister is doing Clerks are counting. a good job, thank you.

MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, my hand COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): What are has been up. they counting, participants? MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi Molebatsi, the MR SPEAKER: They count looking at your images. floor is yours. I think it is confirmed, we are quorated TK. Continue Honourable Monnakgotla. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, before you call on Honourable Molebatsi, my hand has been up MS MONNAKGOTLA: Thank you Mr Speaker. I was since Honourable Monnakgotla was debating and then still on tourism that it should also be considered for rural you … areas. The speech talks about tourism in towns. It should also be considered in Kgalagadi North because it can MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)... I do not know. I did generate income in Botswana. not see you when you raised your hand and there are many of you. Honourable PPP, what point are you rising The 19 million litre fuel depot which will be built on? in Ghanzi will reduce the fuel shortage and create jobs in the western region. Honourable Minister, it is MR MOATLHODI: Clarification. She left Mr Speaker, commendable that you are considering the western who shall I ask? I wanted her to clarify; she said that region. we have to fight corruption, especially now that we are generating insufficient income. This means, if we The speech also talks about the downsizing if the public generate more income, we must not fight it. Is this what service, it should be considered for those who want to she means? start businesses. They should be allowed to go and start businesses while they are still strong. When I left the MR SPEAKER: Since…(Inaudible)… let us spare her public service, I was told that I have to wait 45 years because she finished her debate, she has retreated. before I could access my pension. Honourable Minister, HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… those who want to leave should be given their pension so that they can start their businesses. That is another MR SPEAKER: No Honourable Monnakgotla, you way of downsizing the public service. have finished. Honourable Molebatsi, the floor is yours.

The 100 megawatts solar power plant tender that will ASSISTANT MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, be carried out in Phikwe and Jwaneng is something TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MR MOLEBATSI): Mr

Hansard No 201 34 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

Speaker, they blocked me this side. Can you hear me find out if the funds are used on the things that we agreed Mr Speaker? and if they match the ERTP which is the addendum of Mid-Term Review. That is the first point that I am MR SPEAKER: I hear you, you are very audible. going to consider. I will have a problem if I find that MR MOLEBATSI: Ok. Thank you and good afternoon it addresses other things which we did not agree on. Mr Speaker. Let me also greet the Honourable Members Fortunately, I am satisfied with it because it addresses from different parties, who are present here today. I issues which we have agreed to do. also thank God for the gift of life. Moreover, I thank Additionally, I consider whether this Budget is helping residents of Mmadinare Constituency, who voted me us to achieve our plans, those that we promised and those who are still supporting me on a daily basis Batswana through Vision 2036. Whether it supports to ensure that I represent them well. They continue to the policies and programmes which we encourage offer advice. Batswana to engage in so that they can generate Without wasting any time Mr Speaker, thank you for income, hence achieve the pillar, prosperity for all our giving me the opportunity to respond to the 2021/2022 people. We also have to consider whether it supports budget speech. policies which help us in terms of having a stable and independent economy which will enable us to compete MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Molebatsi, I see with the global economy. This is the economy which Honourable Moswaane’s hand is up. I do not know if will make Batswana to be self-reliant and not depend on it was up earlier on or it is still up. I am saying this the Government or tenders. In that manner, our private because you have just started your debate. sector economy will grow.

MR MOLEBATSI: Yes sir. When considering the points that I have been listing Mr Speaker, we have to ensure that it is relevant to our MR SPEAKER: He has put it down, you may proceed. Stainable Development Goals of providing Batswana MR MOLEBATSI: Thank you Mr Speaker, this with education, health services, clean and safe water and infrastructure which will offer them free transportation budget speech comes at a very difficult time for all of of goods. If at all it matches these things, we have to us, just as some of us have mentioned that it comes commend Honourable Matsheka on the basis that he is during the COVID-19pandemic. Before the outbreak of still on track. COVID-19, we have been pointing out that our economy is facing challenges, we are no longer generating I also have to look at whether it is in accordance with income from exporting diamonds like we used to. When Agenda 2063 of African Union (AU), where we pledged we were still discussing those challenges as leaders to unite Africa through trade and politics, where we put with our advisors, who unfortunately are no longer our differences behind and fight poverty. I believe it is in Government, we were attacked by the COVID-19 assisting us and the Ministry of Investment, Trade and pandemic. This pandemic worsened the situation. Industry. We are able to partake in some agreements like Africa Continental Free Trade, so let us approve and The situation became worse Mr Speaker. It is a great finance it. I believe we are still on the right track by so disaster, but we cannot give in and say that God is doing. greatly punishing us. We met last year to review the National Development Plan, to find out if we are on the Before addressing the Budget speech, there are some right track. We saw it fitting to assess it closely since we points that I want to touch on, we also have to find have been hit by COVID 19, we attached an addendum out if it matches what we promised to Batswana as to state that the pandemic has messed up our plans and members of Domkrag. We promised to give every we should come up with a way forward. We also came Motswana the opportunity to show case their talents, be up with the Economic Recovery and Transformation it entrepreneurship, arts, sports, politics or anything at Plan (ERTP). all, so that they may earn a living through them.

Mr Speaker, the first point to consider when looking at I agree with what Honourable Mmolotsi said, he this Budget is to find out if it is at par with what we mentioned that a country will never go anywhere if it is agreed on the Mid-Term Review of NDP 11. We have to not run through good governance.

Hansard No 201 35 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, what are starts with us leaders and as Batswana in general to some of us who do not have videos supposed to do? have what is called mind-set change from the leadership perspective… MR MOLEBATSI: We can discuss and record all these things, but if a country is not run through good MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi, I can see two governance, it will never go anywhere. Good governance hands by Honourable Lemogang Kwape. Honourable entails a lot of things. It entails the participation of Kwape, which point are you rising on? people of a country in Government, it means rule of law; whether the law is observed and it is not discriminatory. …Silence… It means transparency, where everyone can see what the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, if we call you Government is doing, it talks about institutions; whether please state which point you are rising on so that we there are processes…(Interruptions)... can see whether to stop the clock. If it is point of order MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi, Honourable or procedure, we stop the clock. If it is elucidation, Manake’s hand is up. clarification, or correction...

MR MOLEBATSI: I yield Mr Speaker. MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION (DR KWAPE): Mr Speaker, we are MR SPEAKER: We do not know the point that she is unable to show the video so we are marking ourselves rising on. present. If we switch on, the signal is better.

MR MOLEBATSI: I still yield Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: Which point are you rising on?

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Manake! HONOURABLE MEMBER: He says he is marking himself present sir. …Silence… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Healy, your hand is up. MR MOLEBATSI: She is quiet Mr Speaker, is she not wasting my time? MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you Honourable Speaker. I stand on a point of procedure. MR SPEAKER: Indeed, she is, what point are you rising on Honourable Manake? It is important to know MR SPEAKER: Procedure. the point you are rising on so that we can determine whether she will waste your time or we can cancel it. MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Procedure. Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, we should address HONOURABLE MEMBER: She is wasting your the network issue. I realised that in most cases if the time. Member of Parliament gives one Member the floor for procedure or whatever reason, the connection gets lost MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi, can you go so we should try to address that because you are the one ahead. who would have given that Member the floor and their time starts being used up yet they are not audible. We …Silence… should address it sir. Thank you. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi, please MR SPEAKER: You are correct. The practices have unmute…Go ahead. been, if we have not heard which point you are rising …Silence… on, we pause the clock. When you start, the clock then continues to tick if you are standing on a point MR MOLEBATSI: Can you hear me Mr Speaker? of correction, elucidation or whatever. When it is a MR SPEAKER: Yes sir, go ahead. point of order and procedure, then we stop the watch completely. We are trying to do that but your point is MR MOLEBATSI: I was still introducing my debate, noted Honourable Member. that if we fail to fulfil the plans that we promised like planning which Honourable Molale talked about then MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi, can you go we will not go anywhere. The other thing is that, it ahead.

36 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

MR MOLEBATSI: Thank you Mr Speaker. I was have plans, yet we are unable to implement them? saying we should… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai is standing on MR SPEAKER: Honourable, there is an Honourable something. Member who is on, Leader of the House. MR MOLEBATSI: Hey! My God! LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Point of order. I am emphasising the point raised by MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi, let us hear Honourable Healy. We are using technology so we which point Honourable Motsamai is rising on. cannot be conventional and do things as we used to do MR MOTSAMAI: Point of procedure Mr Speaker. them. First of all, for security of the Members’ time, when a Member is given the floor, the clock has to be MR SPEAKER: Go ahead Honourable Motsamai. immediately stopped. If it is not a point of procedure that MR MOTSAMAI: Procedure. Mr Speaker, I do not is when the clock can start ticking especially is there is know if Honourable Molebatsi is hearing himself as this teething problem of Information Technology (IT). I the Minister, he is saying they should seriously fight thank you. corruption… MR SPEAKER: I am doing exactly that Vice President MR SPEAKER: No! No! (VP), I just ensured that that is exactly what we do. MR MOTSAMAI: …(Inaudible)… MR TSOGWANE: No, what you were saying Mr Speaker is that you ask a Member first that is when we MR SPEAKER: No Honourable Motsamai, that is not can stop the clock. You ask if it is a point of procedure procedure. It is not a point of procedure. Honourable whilst the Member is being inaudible but the clock is Molebatsi, go ahead. moving because of these gadgets. My point is that, immediately you give the other Member the floor, stop MR MOLEBATSI: Thank you. How can a person the clock. If they are audible, that is when you can start just waste my time like this, really? Let me thank you running the clock. If it is a point of procedure, it should Mr Speaker. I hear you Honourable Motsamai; your stop, if not, it should move. That is my point. Thank argument is, how can I say that when I am a Minister. you sir. My point is, if there are things that are not done properly MR SPEAKER: Honourable Leader of the House, we we cannot hide them, that is good governance. We have agree with you, that is our practice. We stop the watch to see them and work together with you so that we can and then listen to the point you are rising on. If it is find solutions. procedure, then we stop it completely but if it is others, Mr Speaker, in Honourable Matsheka’s budget speech, then we continue with the watch ticking. We are doing he mentioned a lot of issues that we have to look into that sir. when implementing a budget during this pandemic. He MR MOLEBATSI: Thank you. I was still saying that started by saying that, the largest share of the Recurrent we should also shift our mind-sets because times have Budget has been allocated to the Ministry of Basic changed. Perhaps as the leadership we should have Education. It is a good move. Looking at education we clear expectations of delivery standards. We should set need an economy… clear standards for ministries including performance. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Leader of the House, I We should also make decisions that, if there are those see your hand is up. who are under performing, we should find ways to assist before we go any further. MR MOLEBATSI: … to change our education.

The other thing is to fight corruption; zero tolerance MR TSOGWANE: Thank you Mr Speaker. I am to corruption. Corruption demoralises people, there is following on your ruling. Let me advise whoever is no productivity. Mr Speaker, there is corruption in our holding the floor that when you have ruled that it is not country. It is there at Councils and parastatals and if we procedure, a Member should not continue to address do not fight this ill we will never progress. We will keep that point. That thing has been ruled out of procedure. questioning the progression of this country. Why do we They also know that once you ruled another Member

Hansard No 201 37 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

out of procedure, it is unnecessary for the Member to its construction will reduce distances travelled as people respond. I thank you Mr Speaker. will not go the A1 route. Trucks from South Africa cross borders at Plaatjan, and they can go through Mmadinare, MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable. We Tonota, and all the way to Mmandunyane, and this can are continuing with the workshop now. We convened a maybe ensure that our roads last longer because we workshop for them a few days back, it means they did would now have alternative roads. not grasp some things. Honourable Member, the issue that I will make a request MR MOLEBATSI: No, it was just for my own on which we have long requested at Mmadinare, is amusement. I heard you Honourable Leader of the infrastructure in our villages. In areas like Mmadinare, House. As we agreed, let us prioritise education; we have been neglected; it is tough. There are rivers we should see implementation of projects. Those and streams passing through Mmadinare, every year we e-learning technologies and digitalisation of schools have a funeral. Let me just indicate that, I believe that in should be introduced. Let us increase classrooms at Botswana the village of Mmadinare is the one that has our constituencies. We should not see it happening recorded many deaths of people who drowned in rivers. at other constituencies only while at ours there is These rivers are in the middle of the village. I am not nothing. We want to see schools; e-learning…Schools sure which year it was, our Kgosi drowned in a river, such as Kgatladimo where students are congested and then it was school children, six soldiers once drowned there is insufficient accommodation. So these should also in Letlhakane River. We are requesting for good be addressed Honourable Members, we should see infrastructure at Mmadinare. It is a big village, which implementation. is providing water to us in Gaborone, and other things. I am also thankful that you allocated the largest share Wow Honourable Members! At least show us mercy by of the Budget to the Ministry of Health and Wellness… constructing roads for us so that these many deaths are Maybe there will be other pandemics like this one. It reduced. has opened our eyes to invest in the health sector so We saw recently the Selebi Phikwe-Serule road being that our hospitals are always ready. Medical equipment washed away by the river. Understand that we are in a should be readily available. We should always have tough situation, we are in the middle of rivers. Tobane- medication and health personnel ready. Let me mention Chokwe Bridge, Molabe Bridge, there is also Motloutse that there are health workers who are providing us with Bridge; when you get there, there is no bridge, 5km good service. At Mmadinare Primary Hospital, we apart there is another river, and there is no bridge, that are fighting this disease Honourable Members, when means that the bridge of... there is a shortage, you will see them working around so, you should reward them one day because they are DR GOBOTSWANG: Procedure Mr Speaker. Mr the soldiers who are safeguarding this country during Speaker, now I am confused, I think even Batswana are war. Nurses and doctors are at war; doctors take care confused. The procedure that we are now using, seems of our patients some of who unfortunately pass away at to be new, it is for the Government of His Excellency Sir Ketumile Teaching Hospital (SKTM) however they Masisi. I do not know if it is procedural for Ministers should be applauded. to come to Parliament and complain that they are being denied developments when they have been given the Infrastructure is also one of the things that we are mandate to run this country? looking into. Let our economy move from where it has been, because our diamond market has collapsed, and MR SPEAKER: What is out of procedure Honourable maybe if roads are constructed between our farms, we Gobotswang? When a Member of Parliament who can be able to manoeuvre, and make a living, that issue happens to be a Minister, requests the Minister needs to be looked into. responsible for the construction of roads, what is wrong with that? He is not out of procedure. Can you go A road like Plaatjan connecting at Mathathane has a ahead Honourable Molebatsi? There is nothing out of bridge, but there is no road that connects that bridge. procedure. Mmadinare–Tonota Road which I believe that even Honourable Pono Moatlhodi can attest that it can promote MR KEORAPETSE: Procedure. As the Speaker, when trade between those many dams. There is farming, and a Cabinet Minister departs from the notion of collective

38 Hansard No 201 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

responsibility; the reason why Honourable Molebatsi MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi, can you go can answer a question for Honourable Segokgo is ahead? because they are in the Cabinet. They operate on collective responsibility. So how does a Minister stand MR KEORAPETSE: No, Honourable Vice President in Parliament and attack the Government he is part of? is not the one leading the proceedings. You pointed ‘Show us mercy, and provide us with developments.’ Honourable Kekgonegile. Vice President does not run Who is he referring to because he is the one who is Parliament. I think that must be... supposed to provide developments? So as the Speaker, do MR TSOGWANE: I was pointed at Honourable you not have the power to put a Minister in line when he Member. Learn to listen, I was pointed at. neglects his responsibility of a collective responsibility? You are collectively responsible, the Executive power, HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure. that is the power to govern is with the President and his HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker... Cabinet; you are part of the Executive? MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, it seems like MR SPEAKER: My point is here Honourable now you are getting out of line. I went back to you Keorapetse, is it something that can be said to be out Honourable Molebatsi, and then I went to Honourable of procedure, or you want to correct? He is not out Kekgonegile, and then somebody intervened. So I of procedure, maybe if you are correcting, you can thought that when he raised his hand it meant that he correct him, not to say he is out of procedure. If you is standing on a different point. I can still go back to want to correct him, then you should stand on a point Honourable Kekgonegile. of correction. MR KEKGONEGILE: Thank you Mr Speaker. I HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is out of order! wanted you to guide us, if the procedure is that before MR KEORAPETSE: Mr Speaker, it cannot be this budget comes to Parliament, it goes through the correction, with the greatest of respect. Cabinet Cabinet, but the Ministers are here, requesting for operates on the notion of collective responsibility. So, if projects from a budget which they have endorsed, is that Honourable Ministers are going to be allowed to stand procedural Mr Speaker? in the House and attack Government they are leading... MR SPEAKER: Honourable Kekgonegile, you are MR SPEAKER: Honourable Keorapetse, he said point repeating what was said by Honourable Gobotswang and has been noted. Minister has noted your point. Honourable Keorapetse. All these Cabinet Ministers, I have been listening to them, they have actually been I can see Honourable Tsogwane. Honourable Leader of debating the same way, and you did not say anything. So the House, your hand is up? now I am wondering why you are attacking Honourable HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR Molebatsi? They have been requesting projects in their TSOGWANE): Mr Speaker, you will pardon me. The constituencies, which is why I am saying, I did not think point I want to raise, I can take two from what you it was a point of procedure, I thought it was just a point have just said. Just allow him to continue, I will ask for of correction. All the Ministers have been requesting as elucidation. Members of Parliament. So, I thought there is nothing unprocedural about that. So let me allow Honourable MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi, can you go Molebatsi to go ahead with his debate Honourable ahead. Members, let us just leave him alone.

MR MOLEBATSI: I am... MR MOLEBATSI: Thank you Mr Speaker. I was talking about infrastructure, emphasising that... MR SPEAKER: I see Honourable Kekgonegile’s hand, it is up. HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): Elucidation. Mr Speaker, I want MR TSOGWANE: Mr Speaker, I thought you heard elucidation on the point which the Minister is talking me, my hand was still up, but for procedure, he was to. I elucidate... supposed to continue, then I requested elucidation from him. MR MOLEBATSI: No, I did not yield for you. Mr

Hansard No 201 39 Wednesday 10th February, 2021 APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

Speaker, I did not yield for the Leader of the Opposition. Are you the one yielding for him now?

MR SPEAKER: Ooh, you did not yield for him? Are you yielding Honourable Molebatsi?

MR MOLEBATSI: Leader of the House, I am now yielding for you.

MR TSOGWANE: Thank you Honourable Minister. I just wanted to elucidate on a point that you are raising, which makes people to get agitated when you raise it. I want to say, you are right in order. There is nothing about collective responsibility when you talk about a constituency. You are not disagreeing with anything and you are not saying any project should be removed from the National Development Plan (NDP). So, you are just talking like a Member of Parliament. We must be national leaders. I can talk about the developments of Selebi Phikwe, because I know the situation there, even if I am not a Member of Parliament for Selebi Phikwe. We are national leaders and it does not ruin anything. The Honourable Ministers are listening, the budget passed through you and there is no problem so, your constituents want to know whether you are representing them well in Parliament. I thank you.

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, time is up. At this juncture, I am going to call upon the Leader of the House to move a Motion of Adjournment.

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): I thank you Mr Speaker. I move that the Honourable Members should now go and rest, and give Honourable Molebatsi a break. They should not stop attacking him like they are doing.

Question put and agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 6:05 p.m. until Thursday 11th February, 2021 at 11:00 a.m.

40 Hansard No 201 HANSARD RECORDERS Mr. T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi, Ms N. Mokoka

HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa HANSARD TRANSLATORS Ms B. Ntisetsang, Ms M. Sekao, Ms B. Mosinyi, Ms V. Nkwane, Ms N. Kerobale, Ms K. Motswakhumo, Ms T. Motsau, Ms O. Phesodi, Mr K. Setswe

LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B. B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae

Hansard No 201 41