Th ird Session, 40th Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(HANSARD)

Monday, November 24, 2014 Aft ernoon Sitting Volume 18, Number 5

THE HONOURABLE , SPEAKER

ISSN 0709-1281 (Print) ISSN 1499-2175 (Online) PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Judith Guichon, OBC

Third Session, 40th Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Linda Reid

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL

Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural Gas Development and Minister Responsible for Housing ...... Hon. Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. Minister of Advanced Education ...... Hon. Minister of Agriculture ...... Hon. Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development ...... Hon. Minister of Education ...... Hon. Minister of Energy and Mines and Minister Responsible for Core Review ...... Hon. Bill Bennett Minister of Environment ...... Hon. Minister of Finance ...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations...... Hon. Steve Th omson Minister of Health ...... Hon. Dr. Minister of International Trade and Minister Responsible for Asia Pacifi c Strategy and Multiculturalism ...... Hon. Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training and Minister Responsible for Labour ...... Hon. Minister of State for Tourism and Small Business ...... Hon. Minister of Justice ...... Hon. Minister of Social Development and Social Innovation...... Hon. Don McRae Minister of Technology, Innovation and Citizens' Services ...... Hon. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure ...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Leader of the Offi cial Opposition ...... John Horgan Deputy Speaker ...... Douglas Horne Assistant Deputy Speaker ...... Raj Chouhan Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Marc Dalton Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...... Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees ...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sessional Law Clerk ...... Roderick MacArthur, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ...... Gary Lenz ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING

Anton, Hon. Suzanne (BC Liberal) ...... -Fraserview Abbotsford-Mission ...... Simon Gibson Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal)...... Penticton Abbotsford South ...... Dr. Darryl Plecas Austin, Robin (NDP) ...... Skeena Abbotsford West ...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Bains, Harry (NDP) ...... Surrey-Newton Alberni–Pacifi c Rim ...... Scott Fraser Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Boundary-Similkameen ...... Linda Larson Bennett, Hon. Bill (BC Liberal) ...... Kootenay East Burnaby–Deer Lake ...... Kathy Corrigan Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River South Burnaby-Edmonds ...... Raj Chouhan Bing, Dr. Doug (BC Liberal) ...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Burnaby-Lougheed ...... Jane Jae Kyung Shin Bond, Hon. Shirley (BC Liberal) ...... Prince George–Valemount Burnaby North ...... Richard T. Lee Cadieux, Hon. Stephanie (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale Cariboo-Chilcotin ...... Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ...... Vancouver–West End Cariboo North ...... Hon. Coralee Oakes Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...... Burnaby-Edmonds Chilliwack ...... John Martin Clark, Hon. Christy (BC Liberal) ...... Westside- Chilliwack-Hope ...... Laurie Th roness Coleman, Hon. Rich (BC Liberal) ...... Fort Langley–Aldergrove Columbia River–Revelstoke ...... Norm Macdonald Conroy, Katrine (NDP) ...... Kootenay West ...... Hon. Don McRae Corrigan, Kathy (NDP) ...... Burnaby–Deer Lake Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ...... Douglas Horne Dalton, Marc (BC Liberal) ...... Maple Ridge–Mission Coquitlam-Maillardville...... Selina Robinson Darcy, Judy (NDP) ...... New Westminster Cowichan Valley ...... Bill Routley de Jong, Hon. Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford West Delta North ...... Wm. Scott Hamilton Dix, Adrian (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kingsway Delta South...... Vicki Huntington Donaldson, Doug (NDP) ...... Stikine Esquimalt–Royal Roads ...... Maurine Karagianis Eby, David (NDP) ...... Vancouver–Point Grey Fort Langley–Aldergrove ...... Hon. Rich Coleman Elmore, Mable (NDP) ...... Vancouver-Kensington Fraser-Nicola...... Jackie Tegart Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...... Port Coquitlam Juan de Fuca ...... John Horgan Fassbender, Hon. Peter (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Fleetwood –North Th ompson ...... Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Fleming, Rob (NDP) ...... Victoria–Swan Lake Kamloops–South Th ompson ...... Hon. Todd Stone Foster, Eric (BC Liberal) ...... Vernon-Monashee Kelowna–Lake Country ...... Hon. Norm Letnick Fraser, Scott (NDP) ...... Alberni–Pacifi c Rim Kelowna-Mission ...... Hon. Steve Th omson Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Kootenay East ...... Hon. Bill Bennett Hamilton, Wm. Scott (BC Liberal) ...... Delta North Kootenay West ...... Katrine Conroy Hammell, Sue (NDP) ...... Surrey–Green Timbers Langley...... Hon. Mary Polak Heyman, George (NDP) ...... Vancouver-Fairview Maple Ridge–Mission ...... Marc Dalton Hogg, Gordon (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey–White Rock Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ...... Dr. Doug Bing Holman, Gary (NDP) ...... Saanich North and the Islands Nanaimo ...... Leonard Eugene Krog Horgan, John (NDP) ...... Juan de Fuca Nanaimo–North Cowichan ...... Doug Routley Horne, Douglas (BC Liberal) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Nechako Lakes ...... Hon. John Rustad Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Panorama Nelson-Creston ...... Michelle Mungall Huntington, Vicki (Ind.) ...... Delta South New Westminster ...... Judy Darcy James, Carole (NDP) ...... Victoria–Beacon Hill North Coast...... Jennifer Rice Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ...... Esquimalt–Royal Roads North Island ...... Claire Trevena Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP) ...... Nanaimo North Vancouver–Lonsdale ...... Hon. Naomi Yamamoto Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant North Vancouver–Seymour ...... Jane Th ornthwaite Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal) ...... Shuswap Oak Bay–Gordon Head ...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Lake, Hon. Dr. Terry (BC Liberal) ...... Kamloops–North Th ompson Parksville-Qualicum ...... Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Boundary-Similkameen Peace River North ...... Lee, Richard T. (BC Liberal) ...... Burnaby North Peace River South ...... Letnick, Hon. Norm (BC Liberal) ...... Kelowna–Lake Country Penticton...... Dan Ashton Macdonald, Norm (NDP) ...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Port Coquitlam ...... Mike Farnworth McRae, Hon. Don (BC Liberal) ...... Comox Valley Port Moody–Coquitlam ...... Linda Reimer Martin, John (BC Liberal) ...... Chilliwack Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...... Nicholas Simons Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Prince George–Mackenzie ...... Mungall, Michelle (NDP) ...... Nelson-Creston Prince George–Valemount ...... Hon. Shirley Bond Oakes, Hon. Coralee (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo North Richmond Centre ...... Hon. Teresa Wat Pimm, Pat (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River North Richmond East ...... Hon. Linda Reid Plecas, Dr. Darryl (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford South Richmond-Steveston ...... Polak, Hon. Mary (BC Liberal) ...... Langley Saanich North and the Islands ...... Gary Holman Popham, Lana (NDP) ...... Saanich South Saanich South ...... Lana Popham Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Shuswap ...... Greg Kyllo Reid, Hon. Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond East Skeena ...... Robin Austin Reimer, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Stikine ...... Doug Donaldson Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ...... North Coast Surrey-Cloverdale ...... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Robinson, Selina (NDP) ...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey-Fleetwood ...... Hon. Peter Fassbender Routley, Bill (NDP) ...... Cowichan Valley Surrey–Green Timbers ...... Sue Hammell Routley, Doug (NDP) ...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Newton ...... Harry Bains Rustad, Hon. John (BC Liberal) ...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Panorama ...... Marvin Hunt Shin, Jane Jae Kyung (NDP) ...... Burnaby-Lougheed Surrey-Tynehead ...... Hon. Amrik Virk Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Surrey-Whalley...... Bruce Ralston Simpson, Shane (NDP) ...... Vancouver-Hastings Surrey–White Rock ...... Gordon Hogg Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal) ...... Parksville-Qualicum Vancouver-Fairview ...... George Heyman Stilwell, Dr. Moira (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Langara Vancouver–False Creek ...... Stone, Hon. Todd (BC Liberal) ...... Kamloops–South Th ompson Vancouver-Fraserview ...... Hon. Suzanne Anton Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal) ...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Hastings ...... Shane Simpson Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver–False Creek Vancouver-Kensington ...... Mable Elmore Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ...... West Vancouver–Capilano Vancouver-Kingsway...... Adrian Dix Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver-Langara ...... Dr. Th omson, Hon. Steve (BC Liberal) ...... Kelowna-Mission Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ...... Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Th ornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Vancouver–Point Grey ...... David Eby Th roness, Laurie (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack-Hope Vancouver-Quilchena ...... Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Trevena, Claire (NDP) ...... North Island Vancouver–West End ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Virk, Hon. Amrik (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Tynehead Vernon-Monashee ...... Eric Foster Wat, Hon. Teresa (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond Centre Victoria–Beacon Hill ...... Carole James Weaver, Dr. Andrew (Ind.) ...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Victoria–Swan Lake...... Rob Fleming Wilkinson, Hon. Andrew (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Quilchena West Vancouver–Capilano ...... Yamamoto, Hon. Naomi (BC Liberal) ...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ...... Yap, John (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond-Steveston Westside-Kelowna ...... Hon. Christy Clark

Party Standings: BC Liberal 49; New Democratic 34; Independent 2

CONTENTS

Monday, November 24, 2014 Aft ernoon Sitting

Page

Routine Business

Tributes ...... 5517 Pat Quinn Hon. M. de Jong J. Horgan

Introductions by Members ...... 5517

Introduction and First Reading of Bills ...... 5518 Bill M212 – Safeguarding Young People’s Future Act, 2014 G. Heyman

Statements (Standing Order 25B) ...... 5519 Richmond Chamber of Commerce J. Yap Jim Sinclair J. Horgan Lung disease awareness and role of lung associations G. Hogg Huu-ay-aht First Nation living-wage policy S. Fraser Britannia Mine Museum J. Sturdy Newton Business Improvement Association H. Bains

Oral Questions ...... 5521 Disclosure of information by Advanced Education Minister to Kwantlen University investigation B. Ralston Hon. A. Virk D. Eby K. Corrigan H. Bains Call for Auditor General investigation into executive compensation at Kwantlen University J. Horgan Hon. M. de Jong M. Farnworth Regulation of party bus industry G. Heyman Hon. T. Stone Wheelchair-accessible cabin rates on ferries J. Rice Hon. T. Stone

Tabling Documents ...... 5525 Offi ce of the Merit Commissioner, Merit Performance Audit 2013-14 Correspondence regarding Kwantlen Polytechnic University Orders of the Day

Committee of the Whole House ...... 5525 Bill M203 — Terry Fox Day Act L. Reimer

Report and Th ird Reading of Bills ...... 5526 Bill M203 — Terry Fox Day Act

Second Reading of Bills ...... 5526 Bill 6 — Liquefi ed Natural Gas Income Tax Act (continued) V. Huntington Hon. P. Fassbender L. Krog Hon. A. Wilkinson M. Farnworth Hon. J. Rustad J. Kwan S. Hammell R. Fleming Hon. B. Bennett J. Horgan Hon. M. de Jong

Committee of the Whole House ...... 5552 Bill 4 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 2), 2014 (continued) R. Sultan Hon. S. Anton M. Farnworth 5517

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 24, 2014 J. Horgan: On behalf of the offi cial opposition, I’d like to join with the Government House Leader and lament Th e House met at 1:33 p.m. the passing of a giant of an Irishman, Pat Quinn. I fi rst became aware of Pat Quinn as a young man, [Madame Speaker in the chair.] when he was, in fact, patrolling the blue line for my fa- vourite at that time, the Toronto Maple Leafs. It was years Routine Business later, when he came to Vancouver, that I adopted a new favourite team. Tributes Th e thing that I want to add to the House Leader’s com- ments: there are very few Canadians who can say that PAT QUINN they’ve had a profound impact in British Columbia and in Toronto — which is, of course, the centre of the known Hon. M. de Jong: Members will know that Canada and universe. Pat Quinn was able to do that. Beloved in two the hockey world lost a giant yesterday with the passing places in this country — a rarity among athletes, a rarity of Pat Quinn. among managers and, certainly, a rarity among politicians. He was here in Victoria just a few months ago, and he Th e memories that I will have of that great run in 1994 stopped in at my offi ce. I’m not sure he could detect how and the time that Pat Quinn spent cultivating excellence, excited I was to meet a hockey legend. But there were two whether it be in purchasing and joining with others in things that were readily apparent at the time I met him: one, establishing the Vancouver Giants or what he did for that time and challenges with health had shortened his Trevor Linden…. My thinking of Trevor Linden, the stride and taken a little bit off his shot, but the second thing greatest of all Vancouver Canucks, is how he was men- that was obvious was that he wasn’t going to allow those tored by Pat Quinn. challenges to diminish his love for the game of hockey or Pat saw — even though he was, at his passing, 71 — the his enthusiastic approach to life generally — and what a life. power of youth, the power of ensuring that you mentor What a life in hockey. Born in ’43 in Hamilton, where those who are coming aft er you. He did that as a play- he played minor hockey and junior hockey. He came to er. He did that as a coach. He did that as a manager, and Edmonton. Won a Memorial Cup. Played his fi rst game more importantly, he did that as a person. with the Leafs in 1968 and had an immediate impact. British Columbia and Canada have lost a great person We got to know him here in British Columbia in 1970, today in Pat Quinn. I want to join with my colleagues on when he joined the expansion Vancouver Canucks. He this side of the House in extending our sincerest condol- ended his playing career in Hamilton with the team there, ences to the Quinn family and to all of those who love with the Flames. Canada and love hockey. But it’s probably as a coach that he may have left the most indelible mark. He took two teams to the Stanley Introductions by Members Cup fi nals — the Flyers in the ’80s and, of course, the Canucks on that memorable 1994 playoff run. G. Heyman: Joining us in the gallery today from [1335] Maple Ridge are Julie Upton-Raymond and her daugh- If the Stanley Cup eluded him, every other prize in ter Danielle Raymond. Julie is the mother and Danielle hockey did not — world championships; world jun- is the sister of Shannon Raymond, who tragically died in ior championships; and, of course, the 2002 Winter 2008 following incidents on a party bus. Olympics, when he ended a 50-year drought for Canada Since that time, they have both worked tirelessly and coached our team to gold. in their community, talking to elected officials, and Th e other thing about Pat Quinn that this House, I throughout the province to bring greater responsibility think, knows and will appreciate is that, as important as to this industry, as well as greater regulation. Danielle, hockey was, he always described education as the tool- in addition to that, having worked on this for six years, box which young people needed to avail themselves of is pursuing her master’s degree in psychology. Joining fi rst and foremost. It was a creed he lived by. He acquired them as well, from Saanich, are Shannon’s uncle and aunt, a law degree himself a number of years ago. Laurie and Kathy Upton. Most recently he was the part owner of the Vancouver I’d ask the members of the House to make them very, Giants, and today his hockey family grieves. He may not very welcome. patrol the blue lines or the boardrooms or the sports bars of Canada any longer, but all of us in this House, Hon. T. Lake: As many members know, November is lung I’m sure, will want to send to his hockey family and, per- month in Canada. Today the B.C. Lung Association and the haps more importantly today, to his immediate family national lung association are both in the precinct to help us our condolences, our thoughts and prayers on the loss to learn about lung health and preventing lung disease. of a great Canadian. Th e B.C. Lung Association has great partnerships with 5518 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

the province, including QuitNow B.C., to help people stop confessed political junkie, but as a person who says that smoking; the woodstove exchange program, which is im- he’s going to retire and then keeps running his very well- portant to maintain air quality; and also the radon aware- known small business on Quadra Island, it’s hard enough ness program, which is certainly an emerging concern. to get him off the island. In the gallery this aft ernoon are representatives from But grandparent duties have brought Doug and his wife, the association, including Scott McDonald, the president Gretchen, down to Victoria. Gretchen is actually carrying and CEO of the B.C. Lung Association; Dr. Peter Paré, the them out at the moment, while Doug is here. He joined chair of the B.C. Lung Association’s board of directors; me for lunch. He’s going to observe question period and and Mike Ellis, who is the director of the national lung then going to take a bit of a tour of these buildings. I hope association. I would ask that all members please make the House will make Doug Peters very welcome. them very welcome here today. [1340] J. Tegart: It’s with great pleasure that I introduce a con- stituent from Merritt, Richie Gage. Richie works tirelessly L. Krog: Joining us in the gallery today is one of my in his community and also in the province, and it’s such constituents, an active member of my executive, a strong a pleasure to welcome him to the House today. supporter of the New Democratic Party. Yes, she’s skip- ping out of school today, but that’s only because she’s such Hon. T. Stone: It gives me a great deal of pleasure to a bright and able student that she can aff ord to take a little introduce two former members of this chamber. On the time off to come down and watch us here today. Would fl oor today we are graced with the presence of Sheila Orr the House welcome Avery Valerio. and Brian Smith, who both served this chamber with dis- tinction and served British Columbians with pride and J. Yap: Madame Speaker, on your behalf and the have gone on to very successful careers in both the pub- Minister of International Trade and for Multiculturalism, lic and private sectors. I would ask that the House please I’d like to welcome to the House four gentlemen from make Sheila and Brian welcome. Richmond, from all of our ridings, who are here on be- half of the Richmond Chamber of Commerce. Hon. S. Anton: I would like to join with that to wel- With us today are Rob Akimow, vice-chair; Howard come my predecessor, Brian Smith, of course joined by Harowitz, policy chair; Michal Yeung, a director; and Sheila Orr. I did have to question them as to why they Matt Pitcairn, who’s the communications and policy were here. Th ey said they’re here on their annual checkup manager for the Richmond Chamber of Commerce. of the Legislature. May we pass muster. Th ey’re here for meetings with MLAs and ministers and As well, I’d like to welcome three persons who joined are here in the gallery for question period. Would the us today with the announcement of the extension of the House please give them a warm welcome. liquor primary licences for golf courses and ski hills. Th at is David Lynn, president and CEO of Canada West Ski J. Kwan: I have a very special guest visiting here to- Areas Association, who is in the gallery. He was joined day in the Legislature. It’s her fi rst time visiting us in by Kris Jonasson, the executive director of the B.C. Golf this building as an offi cial individual — someone who Association, and Jim Lee, the director of business de- actually moves mountains on behalf of my constituents velopment of the B.C. Golf Association. Will the House and is not a stranger, I would venture to say, to the staff please make them all very welcome. of the Minister for Housing and the staff of the Minister [1345] of Social Development responsible for CLBC. She is Lisa Macleod, and I live in fear every single day Hon. A. Wilkinson: Th e precinct is pleased to receive that she might leave my offi ce. She really does wonders today members from the organization known as DigiBC, for the constituents and representing the people, espe- which represents the digital media industry in British cially when I’m not there. Th ank you very much, Lisa. Columbia — which, as we all know, is very successful, in- Would the House please make her welcome. cluding right here on Vancouver Island — and its president, Howard Donaldson. Could we please make them welcome. M. Dalton: In the gallery today is my personal an- gel and my wife of 29 years, Marlene. Next to her is Gail Introduction and Payeur, a good friend of ours. Would the House please First Reading of Bills make them feel welcome. BILL M212 – SAFEGUARDING YOUNG C. Trevena: I think all members take great pleasure in PEOPLE’S FUTURE ACT, 2014 introducing guests in the gallery from their home com- munities, and today I have that pleasure. Doug Peters has G. Heyman presented a bill intituled Safeguarding long been talking about coming down here. He’s a self- Young People’s Future Act, 2014. Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5519

G. Heyman: I rise to table a bill intituled the Safe- RCC’s motto is to ensure the success of its member busi- guarding Young People’s Future Act, and I move that it nesses. It helps its members start up business, increase be introduced and read a fi rst time now. eff ectiveness and, ultimately, reach profi tability by pro- viding professional advice and expert assistance. Motion approved. It also supports its members with discount programs for offi ce supplies, recruitment advertising and shipping G. Heyman: Th e party bus industry has grown across services. Members have access to a network of more than North America as well as here in B.C. It has been increasing- 2,000 businesses and government agencies for informa- ly obvious for several years that a signifi cant number of oper- tion and promotion. ators ignore or abet fl agrant and dangerous use of alcohol RCC, in partnership with the city of Richmond, has and controlled substances. Unsafe as well as illegal practices paid tribute to the business community through its abound in these circumstances. Fights are routine, young Business Excellence Awards since 1977. Th ese awards passengers have fallen from unsecured doors, and others recognize some 60 companies in six diff erent categor- have been left in unsafe and isolated locations following as- ies every year. saults and when they are clearly in need of medical attention. Moreover, RCC has been representing the voice of Worse, two 16-year-olds, Shannon Raymond and Ernest business in Richmond by addressing important issues Azoadam, lost their lives as a result of party bus excursions. in the community, in the province and across the coun- In the fi ve years between their deaths only ineff ective warn- try. In October representatives of the RCC went to Prince ings were issued to the industry, as dozens of other danger- Edward Island and Ottawa to promote and highlight the ous and illegal incidents have occurred and been reported. landmark economic importance of the Lower Fraser Alcohol consumption in vehicles is illegal in B.C., but report. The RCC received a silver medal in the 2014 it is still advertised by many party bus companies as part Canadian Chamber of Commerce’s Voice of Business of the experience. Alcohol is oft en the principal reason competition in recognition of this Fraser River report, for the party bus excursion. which brought unprecedented collaboration from 14 Th e industry has been warned at least three times by chambers of commerce and boards of trade adjacent to the Ministry of Transportation to remove references to the banks of the Lower Fraser River. alcohol from their websites. Most have not complied. RCC also successfully passed a policy that calls for all Our neighbours have taken action. California im- levels of government to immediately address the manage- plemented Bill 45 to address the common practice of ment requirements on the river at the Canadian Chamber under-age drinking on party buses aft er the death of a of Commerce AGM in Charlottetown. 19-year-old, and Washington state is poised to introduce I’m very proud and thankful for the wonderful legislation in January to protect children from the risks and meaningful work of the Richmond Chamber of associated with this industry, aft er conducting research Commerce and would like to thank its many leaders — that included B.C. statistics. including current chair, Gerard Edwards; Vice-Chair Rob Th is bill seeks to enact protections for young passen- Akimow, Communications Policy Manager Matt Pitcairn; gers contracting trips on party buses and to ensure that and the executive director, Craig Jones — for their com- the industry is subject to the same level of licensing and mitment, passion and diligence in making Richmond a oversight as other sectors of the passenger transportation more business-friendly and prosperous place to live. industry through the Passenger Transportation Board. [1350] I move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House JIM SINCLAIR aft er today. J. Horgan: Th e B.C. Federation of Labour is holding its Bill M212, Safeguarding Young People’s Future Act, convention this week in Vancouver, and for the fi rst time 2014, introduced, read a fi rst time and ordered to be in 15 years, Jim Sinclair will not be seeking re-election. placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next During that time, B.C. families have had a passionate cham- sitting of the House aft er today. pion at their side. Jim Sinclair has led the B.C. Federation of Labour to be a voice for all workers, not just those with Statements a union card. (Standing Order 25B) With roots in journalism and the fi shing industry, Jim has been an eloquent spokesperson for both public and private RICHMOND CHAMBER OF COMMERCE sector unions. In his tireless pursuit of justice for farmwork- ers in the Fraser Valley, his campaign for a higher minimum J. Yap: I’m honoured to rise today and recognize the wage, or his work for better health and safety standards, Jim signifi cant contributions that the Richmond Chamber of Sinclair has fought to make working families safer and bet- Commerce — RCC — has made in the past 89 years. Th e ter off , at the end of the day, here in British Columbia. 5520 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

Jim also leaves behind a stronger and more united to adopt a living-wage policy for all of its employees. Out of labour movement than he inherited. During the recent respect for all Huu-ay-aht employees, the executive coun- teachers dispute, we saw a union movement that stood cil voted in favour of implementing a living-wage policy together for public education. Teachers took a stand, and on October 24. Th at’s just a couple Fridays ago. they knew that they weren’t alone. Th at solidarity is tes- Th e decision was made based on the belief that B.C.’s tament to Jim’s vision for a united labour movement that current minimum wage is not high enough to meet the is a strong voice speaking up on behalf of all working needs of families to promote health and well-being. Huu- people and their families. ay-aht believe that people should not have to decide be- He’s a tireless British Columbian who has put himself tween paying rent and feeding their family. With today’s out there for working people time and time and time high cost of living, this is a reality for far too many people. again. I’m going to miss him as a friend, and I know that Many are forced to rely on food banks in order to get by. working people in British Columbia will miss a great British Columbia has been amongst the highest child champion. I’m sure his voice will continue to be heard poverty rates in Canada for a decade now, and low speaking up for working families. wages are a key contributor. Huu-ay-aht believe that I will ask this House to join me in giving Jim Sinclair work should lift families out of poverty, not keep them a warm, warm round of applause for 15 years of service there. “Too many of our people are living on minimum to the people of British Columbia. wage or below the poverty line,” explained elected Chief Councillor Jeff Cook. “It is our hope that this will off er LUNG DISEASE AWARENESS AND our employees a choice other than just surviving and liv- ROLE OF LUNG ASSOCIATIONS ing paycheque to paycheque.” [1355] G. Hogg: Our lung associations are non-profi t, volun- “Th e treaty has given us the ability to make decisions teer, health-based charities with the mission of improving based on our values and goals and implement those deci- lung health and the vision of a world free of lung disease. sions in accordance with our own laws. Th e living-wage It is one of the oldest volunteer organizations in Canada. policy shows us how the treaty gives us the ability to chart November is national lung month, and today we both our own future.” Th at’s from Councillor Tom Mexsis recognize and celebrate the work of the Canadian and Happynook. He went on to say: “We have a long way to B.C. lung associations. Together they have helped to lead go to meet or exceed the living standards of Canadians, British Columbia to amongst the lowest smoking rates in but this is a great step in the right direction.” North America. I would like to thank the Huu-ay-aht for demonstrat- Yet one in fi ve of our residents has a lung disease, and ing what true leadership is all about. True leadership lung cancer and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease involves supporting your citizens to reach their full po- are among the leading causes of death in Canada. COPD tential, and we can all learn from that. is the No. 1 cause of hospital admissions. Aft er smok- ing, radon is our leading cause of lung cancer. Th e lung BRITANNIA MINE MUSEUM association is urging all homeowners to test their home for radon. It is a simple, inexpensive and important test. J. Sturdy: Th e Britannia Mine Museum presents not Th e lung associations provide research resources, pre- only a glimpse at British Columbia’s past but also speaks vention services and support for patients. Th ey focus on to the opportunities and the responsibilities of B.C.’s fu- the full scope of respiratory diseases — on asthma, sleep ture. You will likely have seen the museum. You can’t help apnea, tuberculosis, lung cancer, occupational lung dis- but notice its 20-storey concentrator building towering eases and air quality. Nationally, they’re bringing pa- above the highway in Britannia Beach. tients, researchers and donors together to breathe as one Britannia mine opened 110 years ago and, in various to breathe new life into research initiatives. iterations, operated until 1974. Whether it be the 130 I ask the members of this House to take a deep breath miles of tunnels traversing from high in the mountains and to show our support and gratitude to the lung asso- to thousands of feet below sea level, the 50 million tonnes ciations for their partnership, their guidance and their of ore extracted or the 60 thousand people that passed leadership in making B.C. a better place to live and to through Britannia Beach over the working life of the breathe. Please breathe. mine, Britannia Mining and Smelting Company and its successors had both a local and a global impact. HUU-AY-AHT FIRST NATION When the mine fi nally closed, the community thought LIVING-WAGE POLICY it had seen its best days. A dilapidated facility left with an acid rock drainage legacy. But today Britannia mine is a S. Fraser: Th e Huu-ay-aht First Nation achieved nation- designated national historic site, where acid rock drain- hood through the Maa-nulth treaty. Talk about leadership. age is managed and treated, and where the museum and Huu-ay-aht is the fi rst First Nation community in Canada community around it has become a Sea to Sky must-see. Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5521

The museum’s mission is to inspire visitors to explore Oral Questions British Columbia’s past, present and future by gaining a better understanding of the mining industry and the important role DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION BY that minerals and metals play in our everyday lives. ADVANCED EDUCATION MINISTER TO In 2010 a $14.7 million renovation was concluded, KWANTLEN UNIVERSITY INVESTIGATION which completely transformed the museum. Of the more than 70,000 people who visit each year, I couldn’t B. Ralston: Members of this House will recall that the guess what each takes away as a highlight: the train ride Minister of Finance directed Rob Mingay to conduct an through the old tunnels or the massive wooden concen- investigation into executive compensation at Kwantlen trator building or panning for gold. Polytechnic University. Th e opposition now has reason If I may off er advice on a visit, it’s to give yourself to believe that the Minister of Advanced Education with- more time than you think that you need. Th ere’s much held material information from Mr. Mingay. to see. Th e Britannia Mine Museum not only entertains To the Minister of Advanced Education, will he take but also educates, and you will leave with much more this opportunity here to acknowledge that he did not ac- than you came for. count fully to the investigator?

NEWTON BUSINESS Hon. A. Virk: Th ere’s certainly been a great deal of in- IMPROVEMENT ASSOCIATION terest from the members opposite on my previous role as a board member of that university. Indeed, out of an H. Bains: A number of people from businesses in abundance of caution…. Th ere are ongoing civil matters Newton have been working very hard for the past few that I can’t speak about between former employees of that years to form Newton Business Improvement Association. university and the university. I have actually volunteered Philip Aguirre, of the Old Surrey Restaurant; Linda to recuse myself with any involvement with that univer- McCabe, from Value Properties Group; Jaspal Brar, sity. In fact, I’ve asked my deputy minister to oversee any from JSB Co-operators insurance; Gabrielle Steed, from day-to-day matters as they arise. the John Volken Foundation; and Santosh Nahal, sen- ior property manager for King’s Cross Shopping Centre Madame Speaker: Th e member for Surrey-Whalley have vested interest in Newton community, and all were on a supplemental. instrumental in forming the Newton BIA. Although they were given approval by the city just this B. Ralston: A key fi nding of the Mingay report was past month, these people have been working tirelessly to that the Minister of Advanced Education and the board improve the Newton community all along. Th eir hard had no involvement in what became known as the Lavack work is already paying off . Th ey were successful in get- contracts. Th e Minister of Finance used that conclusion ting the paid parking meters removed from 137th Street, in this House as recently as November 6 to defend the on my suggestion, in front of my offi ce, between 74th Minister of Advanced Education. Avenue and 72nd Avenue. Small business owners were Does the Minister of Advanced Education agree with Mr. constantly losing business because people did not want to Mingay’s conclusion that neither he nor the board of govern- pay to park to run in for coff ee, their dry cleaning, their ors at Kwantlen had any knowledge of the Lavack contracts? mail or a photocopy or even their dinner. Th ese businesses now have a voice at the city to discuss Hon. A. Virk: I can assure the House that as to the issues aff ecting them. Th e vision of the new executive investigation done by the assistant deputy minister, the director, Philip Aguirre, is promising. He’s committed fullest of information available to myself was provided to turning Newton into a thriving community that busi- for Mr. Mingay. nesses and residents can be proud of. His aspirations include a four-pillar plan focusing on safety; area en- D. Eby: We have obtained a series of e-mails sent to hancement; lobbying government — believe it or not; as and from the minister’s former RCMP e-mail account in well as marketing and events. which the minister and his colleagues on the Kwantlen Mr. Aguirre has his sights set on adding events like a board discussed their plan to break government compen- farmers market, movie nights and a food truck program sation rules in the Lavack contracts. and is considering a drive-in movie night at King’s Cross Th e initiating e-mail sent from the former university Shopping Centre. He would like people to be able to work, president to the minister and others proposes paying play and live right in the community of Newton. Ms. Lavack a salary “at the ceiling.” Th e president then I would like to welcome Newton BIA to Surrey-Newton proposes making an additional $100,000 payment to Ms. and congratulate Mr. Aguirre on his appointment as exec- Lavack to cover moving expenses and “a signing bonus.” utive director. I can’t wait for the movie night. In short, this e-mail directly contradicts the investigation [1400] fi ndings. It is relevant, and it was never disclosed. 5522 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

To the Minister of Advanced Education: this e-mail Madame Speaker: Burnaby–Deer Lake on a supplemental. was addressed to you. You received it. You didn’t disclose it. How do you explain yourself? K. Corrigan: On April 10, 2011, the Minister of Advanced Education responded, in an e-mail, to this Madame Speaker: Th rough the Chair, Member. scheme, as set out by the former president. It turns out he did support this plan. Th e minister wrote: “All looks Hon. A. Virk: Th e report done by the assistant dep- well and is in line with our collective thoughts.” uty minister asked a number of questions of a number To the minister: why didn’t you tell the investigator of individuals, and any responses that Mr. Mingay asked that you personally signed off on Kwantlen’s detailed plan of myself and my offi ce were provided to Mr. Mingay in to violate provincial compensation rules? the compilation of his report. Hon. A. Virk: The assistant deputy minister indeed Madame Speaker: Vancouver–Point Grey on a sup- interviewed a number of individuals within that university, plemental. as well, and did complete a report aft er having a fulsome analysis of interviews within that institution. Th e inter- D. Eby: Well, the investigation conclusions make it views were in terms of those individuals that were respon- clear that when a Ministry of Finance investigator inter- sible for the vice-presidential level, for the oversight of those viewed the Minister of Advanced Education, the Minister contracts, for signing those contracts. Th at assistant dep- of Advanced Education did not tell the investigator that uty minister made that public, open. It was all for all to see. the Kwantlen board were directly involved in the Lavack contracts. It is also clear that the minister did not disclose H. Bains: Th e minister was so involved in the Lavack these e-mails to the investigator. contract negotiations that he wrote to the other board Why did the Minister of Advanced Education hide this members to defend their scheme when they raised ques- information from the investigator? tions. For example, the minister defended a generous re- search leave allowance as follows: “If I may off er another Hon. A. Virk: As I’ve said to the member opposite, angle on this, given the low pay level of a VP at Kwantlen and the diffi culty in drawing candidates within the cur- any information that was requested by the assistant dep- rent pay scale, the research leave is one way to top off the uty minister in his review of compensation as it relates pay level. Th is is a common practice that I learned of.” to contracts in my role as a board member of that uni- To the minister: why didn’t you report your detailed versity — my offi ce and myself were open completely in involvement in the Lavack contract to the investigators? providing answers to those questions that were asked. [1405] Madame Speaker: Th rough the Chair, Members. K. Corrigan: In his e-mail to the Minister of Advanced Hon. A. Virk: There are a number of recommenda- Education the former Kwantlen president outlined how tions that arose from the ADM’s report, as to compensa- they could avoid provincial government reporting re- tion across the post-secondary sector. It made a number of quirements. He said: “I suggest that I draft a letter which recommendations that required boards to report, to under- Anne will sign indicating her agreement. We will then stand, to be able to take a better understanding. I look at it draft a contract that outlines, in general terms, the con- that, as a previous board member, I ought to have known ditions of the contract. Th is would be sent to PSEC for its more about the reporting requirements. I have apologized records. Th ere would be a separate letter outlining in de- for that. As a board member at the time, I ought to have tail the housing allowance, professional allowance. Th is known better in terms of reporting requirements. is what occurred in my own case.” [1410] To the now Minister of Advanced Education, this e- We are fully committed, in terms of taxpayer account- mail from the president set out a plan to hide payments ability, to implement each and every one of those recom- in the Lavack contract from the provincial regulator. Why mendations. Some of those recommendations help to did the minister not disclose it to Mr. Mingay? ensure that boards understand their responsibilities and their obligations better. Hon. A. Virk: Well, the assistant deputy minister did, indeed, conduct a review of compensation as it related CALL FOR AUDITOR GENERAL to the president and to other staff at that university. Th e INVESTIGATION INTO EXECUTIVE fullest of information has been provided, as asked by Mr. COMPENSATION AT KWANTLEN UNIVERSITY Mingay. Mr. Mingay did come to a number of diff erent conclusions, and that report was, indeed, made public J. Horgan: Th e Minister of Finance told the media, for all to see. following the Mingay report’s release, that he had gotten Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5523

to the bottom of the Kwantlen compensation fi asco. We time that the fi ndings were troubling and disturbing, now now know, based on the evidence that’s been presented it’s applaudable that they were troubling and disturbing. to the House today, that that clearly is not the case. It Again I go to the Minister of Finance, in the absence of would have been the case had it not been for a whistle- anyone else of authority that I could ask this question: blower who obtained these documents from archived don’t you think it’s past time that we had someone who academic search binders and provided them to the of- could compel the Minister of Advanced Education to fi cial opposition. tell the public what really went on? Have the Auditor In light of the assertions that are made in these e-mails General look at this. — that the Minister of Advanced Education was not only fully apprised of the scheme but in fact off ered sugges- Hon. M. de Jong: I think it’s regrettable that the Leader tions to improve it — wouldn’t the Minister of Finance of the Opposition would — as I think he’s doing — try to agree with me…? Rather than continue the facade that impugn the motives or the intents of a member of this the Mingay report actually did get to the bottom of this, chamber. wouldn’t it be past time for the Auditor General to have [1415] a look at this so that we can compel evidence and ensure Th e minister, in conveying information to Mr. Mingay, that all documents are released — as they should have in no way tried to disassociate himself from the role that been the fi rst time around? he played as a volunteer member of that board and ac- knowledged that there were requirements for disclosure Hon. M. de Jong: It is undoubtedly convenient for the that were met and other requirements for disclosure member of the opposition and his colleagues to refer to that weren’t met. As a result of that, recommendations documents that no one on this side of the House has seen. have been made by Mr. Mingay. Th e government has en- He has material that he is referring to, but let me go dorsed those recommendations and is moving to imple- further and say this. An examination of what took place ment them. occurred, and there was no ambiguity in the fi ndings that In the meantime, the good work that is taking place although disclosure of the matters that members oppos- under the auspices of the Minister of Advanced Education ite have referred to in these various discussions did take is taking place. Students across British Columbia are re- place pursuant to certain processes, they did not in all ceiving the support, the training opportunities and the circumstances take place pursuant to the employment educational opportunities that they require and deserve, disclosure requirements. No one has denied that. No one and that’s good news. has tried to hide from responsibility for that. Th e minister responsible, to his credit, has acknow- Madame Speaker: Th e Leader of the Offi cial Opposition ledged that there was a more robust reporting require- on a further supplemental. ment that should have been met. He has apologized for that. He has gotten on with doing a great job representing J. Horgan: Th e Premier, on the 18th of June…. Th at the interests of advanced education in British Columbia wasn’t a sitting day, so this was made somewhere else. She for students right across the province. said the following: “He is committed to making sure that the rules and the intent of the rules are followed. I have Madame Speaker: The Leader of the Official spoken to him and have absolute confi dence in him and Opposition on a supplemental. his ability to serve as Minister of Advanced Education.” Th at was the Premier’s view in June. Th at was prior to J. Horgan: I suppose if you’re trying to deceive some- the Mingay report. Th at was prior to the troubling and one…. To his credit, he kept information from the gov- disturbing fi ndings that the Minister of Finance talked ernment twice — once as a board member and then again about. Now we have a representation in an e-mail from as a cabinet minister. If that’s an applaudable off ence, I an RCMP e-mail account advising how to deal with get- suppose that we could all rejoice in that. But I think the ting around the rules that the minister — at that time a public has a higher standard than the government does board member — was responsible for upholding. on these matters. Absent the chair of executive council, again to the Back on November 6 the Minister of Finance, in re- Minister of Finance: surely to goodness, there’s a high- sponding to a privilege motion in this House, said the fol- er standard in your operation than the one that’s being lowing: “From a review of documentation and through demonstrated by the Minister of Advanced Education. interviews, it appears that neither KPU’s board of gov- ernors nor its administrative staff were aware of the Hon. M. de Jong: For a group that has taken some time terms of Lavack’s off er letter and agreement or the pre- this session pointing out the hazards of rushing to judg- employment contract.” ment, the Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues Well, we now know that that’s not a supportable pos- seem quite content to proceed precisely on that basis. ition. We know that although the minister said at the Th ere has been absolutely no attempt to shield what 5524 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

took place here. Th ere has been no attempt to withhold ciate if the Auditor General would examine this particular from the public what occurred. Th ere has been no at- issue so that we can get to the bottom of the mess? tempt to deny that there was a lapse with respect to the disclosure in conformity with the PSAC employment re- Hon. M. de Jong: I’ve also been around long enough to quirements, although the information that lies at the root know that it might actually be wise to read the documents of the concerns expressed by the members of the oppos- that the members are referring to before taking at face value ition was in fact disclosed and was in the public domain. the assertions being made by members of the opposition. I’m sure it suits the Leader of the Opposition and his He’s indicated that he intends to table this documenta- colleagues to stand and make these assertions and cas- tion. As always, I will read with interest what members of tigate the good character of the Minister of Advanced the opposition have to off er. But none of that alters in any Education, but I can tell you this: the Minister of way my perception and my absolute belief in the com- Advanced Education is committed to the interests of mitment that the Minister of Advanced Education has to students in British Columbia and is going to remain com- the interests of advanced education and the students of mitted to the interests of students in British Columbia. British Columbia. He has been working diligently since assuming that offi ce to advance those interests. M. Farnworth: What I hope is that the Minister of Advanced Education would be committed to the integ- REGULATION OF PARTY BUS INDUSTRY rity of this House and chamber. On page 11 of the Mingay report, Mr. Mingay fi nds: G. Heyman: In 2008 16-year-old Shannon Raymond “My review did not reveal information to suggest that the died. Like many B.C. teens, she and her friends had then board of governors was aware of the Lavack off er let- been using a party bus as a place to consume alcohol ter of employment or pre-employment contract.” Th ese and Ecstasy. Th e driver even helped them conceal their e-mails, which we will happily table aft er question per- alcohol. iod, say otherwise. In 2013 16-year-old Ernest Azoadam also died fol- Th is is no longer about the minister’s role or conduct lowing a trip on a party bus, and 17-year-old MacKenzie as the board chair of Kwantlen but rather his role as a Gortva was left lying in a parking lot following an assault. minister to supply all the relevant information to an in- Last month, as Emmannuel Dario was convicted of ag- vestigation that was undertaken by this government aft er gravated assault, the Crown prosecutor said: “Th e bloody issues were raised by the opposition. and senseless violence in this case screams for greater My question to the Minister of Finance is this. He was regulation and monitoring of party bus operators.” disturbed about these issues enough to order an inves- Th e Raymonds are in the gallery today. To the Minister tigation when the minister was chair of the board. Well, of Justice, will she admit that existing laws are inadequate how about now that he’s a minister of the Crown? It’s a bit to control party buses, and will she commit to act now more than disturbing, and it requires the Auditor General before another young person dies? to come in and sort out this mess. Will he at least do that? [1420] Hon. T. Stone: Certainly, as the father of three girls my- self, I can only imagine what the loss that the Raymonds Hon. M. de Jong: Th e hon. member is an experienced have suff ered must be like. My heart, and I know those of all member of this chamber and knows — at least I expect he of us in this chamber, certainly goes to the Raymond family. knows — that the Auditor General does not take direc- I met with the Raymond family not that long ago to talk tion from anyone on this side of the House. Th e Auditor about this situation and their thoughts on possible improve- General will make her own decisions about matters, and ments. I know that the Attorney General did the same. thank goodness for that. Th e Auditor General will make At the end of the day, and as the holiday season fast her own decisions about the matters that she wishes to in- approaches, we know that there will be lots of British vestigate, to examine, to review. Th at has been the case. It Columbians, many of whom will be young, who will be has served the interests of this chamber of the Legislative out enjoying the festive atmosphere and will use limou- Assembly and British Columbians well in the past and sine services and other similar services. It’s very import- will continue to serve them well in the future. ant, I think, for all British Columbians to be reminded of the fact that it actually is illegal to consume alcohol in Madame Speaker: Th e member for Port Coquitlam any type of vehicle in British Columbia. on a supplemental. [1425] In addition to that, I would like to reassure the mem- M. Farnworth: I have a very straightforward question bers opposite and British Columbians generally that we for the Minister of Finance. Does he have enough concern meet on a regular basis with the operators, that the pas- about the issues being raised to write to the Auditor General senger transportation branch does. Th ey are reminded of and say that the government is concerned and would appre- their obligations of which, fi rst and foremost, is the safe Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5525

transport of their passengers. Minister of Transportation has claimed he is trying to do I have also asked the passenger transportation branch what he can to “ensure that the fares are as aff ordable as to look at how we could possibly strengthen the fi tness they can possibly be.” requirements that are attached to the licensing to see if To the Minister of Transportation: why are people who there may be an opportunity to strengthen the safety here. use wheelchairs being discriminated against with this I await the information back from the passenger trans- unfair extra fee? portation branch on that request. Hon. T. Stone: Let me say that in our eff orts as gov- Madame Speaker: The member for Vancouver- ernment to position British Columbia as being one of the Fairview on a supplemental. most accessible jurisdictions in North America and, cer- tainly, in Canada, there is a huge role for transportation, G. Heyman: I heard the Minister of Transportation obviously, to play in that. Th is is why, on a regular basis make a fairly similar speech earlier this year, just shortly — whether it’s involving transit buses, whether it involves before he shunted the Raymonds over to the Justice min- B.C. ferries and other facets of transportation — we have, ister. Th ose are sympathetic words, but sympathy without as a matter of requirement, to ensure that when new assets eff ective action is meaningless. are replaced and retrofi ts are done, to the maximum extent Shannon Raymond’s mother and sister have met with possible we take into account accessibility requirements. both the Minister of Transportation and the Minister of Now, if the member has some specifi c information Justice and shown evidence of party bus drinking, fi ghts, about a specifi c route, I would be more than happy to fi ghts with other motorists, assaults with weapons, med- look into that further. Our goal is to be the most accessible ical distress calls, passengers falling out of unsecured jurisdiction in North America. doors, passengers being ejected and left on the side of [1430] the road, passengers being assaulted and left unconscious at unsafe locations. What does it take for either of these [End of question period.] ministers to have more than a conversation with the pas- senger transportation board? Tabling Documents Will the Justice Minister commit today that she will take concrete action to stop the dangerous behaviour Madame Speaker: Hon. Members, I have the honour that’s a staple diet on party buses? to present the Merit Commissioner’s Merit Performance Audit 2013-14, Upholding Fair Hiring in the British Hon. T. Stone: It is the law in British Columbia that…. Columbia Public Service. Th ere is no tolerance whatsoever for the consumption of alcohol in any type of vehicle — no vehicle whatsoever. M. Farnworth: I seek leave to table documents. We meet through the passenger transportation branch. We meet on a regular basis with operators to ensure that they Leave granted. are aware of their obligations. We will continue to do that. In my previous response I indicated, I thought quite Orders of the Day clearly, to the member opposite that we have asked the passenger transportation branch to take another look at Hon. M. de Jong: Committee stage debate on Bill the fi tness testing requirements that are associated with M203, the Terry Fox Day Act. the licences at play here to determine whether or not there are opportunities there to strengthen those fi tness Committee of the Whole House requirements, all in the name of safety. In addition, our ministry is going to continue to work BILL M203 — TERRY FOX DAY ACT very closely with staff in the Attorney General’s offi ce, with ICBC and with law enforcement to ensure height- Th e House in Committee of the Whole on Bill M203; ened awareness, education and enforcement. At the end D. Horne in the chair. of the day, we’re going to continue to do everything we can to ensure the safe transport of British Columbians. Th e committee met at 2:32 p.m.

WHEELCHAIR-ACCESSIBLE Sections 1 and 2 approved. CABIN RATES ON FERRIES Title approved. J. Rice: Th e Inside Passage and Haida-Gwaii-to-Prince- Rupert ferry routes are oft en overnight trips. For sleeping L. Reimer: I want to take this opportunity to thank quarters it’s $90, but if you use a wheelchair, it’s $120. Th e all of the members of the House for honouring our great 5526 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

hero, Terry, and for sharing their stories and memories of fi cult bill for me to come to terms with. I have struggled Terry and how he impacted and also others in the world. with whether or not to support this bill. I have been in I do want to make one clarifi cation. Th at is I just want my riding, briefi ng people and have had people briefi ng to clarify the date of the Terry Fox Run. It was the family’s people and have asked my constituents and my riding wishes that we hold that day on the day of the run. Th at association to consider it. Almost to a person they have date is the second Sunday aft er Labour Day in September, said it’s not worth supporting, which has added to my not the second Sunday of September. I wanted to make confl ict about the bill. that one clarifi cation. I’d be happy to take any questions I do believe in the issue of climate change. I believe in if any of the members have them. the seriousness of climate change and the fact that this world is facing dire circumstances and a dire future. I Deputy Speaker: Actually, we completed the bill, have a lot of sympathy for those who feel that we should Member, so if you could move that the committee rise, be taking the great leap and saying: “No, we will not add report the bill complete and seek to adjourn without to the emissions of this world.” amendment. In struggling with the desire to say that, I have had to admit I feel that, ultimately, the struggle to reduce our L. Reimer: I move that the committee rise and report emissions is going to require a transitional period, and the bill complete without amendments. that liquefi ed natural gas is, in fact, to be that transition- al fuel. I would far rather have liquefi ed natural gas than Motion approved. coal burning. I think it’s going to take upwards of ten years or more Th e committee rose at 2:34 p.m. before China begins to wean itself quickly and more thoroughly from coal. I think that, in the meantime, we Th e House resumed; Madame Speaker in the chair. have to recognize there will be a transition. I would like to think this province could stand up and say: “We will Report and not contribute. We will do the right and moral thing. We Th ird Reading of Bills will move unilaterally to reducing our emissions.” But we’re not going to do that. BILL M203 — TERRY FOX DAY ACT I think that until public pressure is such that govern- ments and business are forced to realize that something Bill M203, Terry Fox Day Act, reported complete with- must be done, and done now, I guess I would say that I out amendment, read a third time and passed. would rather LNG than coal. [1435] I am extremely disappointed with the tax structure of this bill. I feel that the damage that is going to be caused Hon. M. de Jong: I call continued second reading de- to our environment is not being recompensed by this tax- bate on Bill 6. ation that we will be receiving. It is not enough. It does not off set the damages that I think we’ll see over time. I Second Reading of Bills suspect that the Ministry of Finance is equally as dis- turbed with the amount of tax that we will be receiving BILL 6 — LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS over a period of time. INCOME TAX ACT Saying that, the fact is that we will at least be getting (continued) something, which I suppose during a transitional period is better than nothing. I have come to the conclusion that K. Corrigan: It gives me a great deal of pleasure to it is supportable on that basis, even though reluctantly. stand at this moment and speak on Bill 6. While we are [1440] supportive on this side of the House, very supportive of Also, the numbers of jobs that have been touted by the the LNG industry, we are very concerned about the en- government, I think, have been highly exaggerated — I vironmental impact. think unfairly exaggerated during an electoral period, improperly exaggerated during an electoral period. We [D. Horne in the chair.] now know that most of the construction of the facilities will take place overseas and be towed in to the facilities in Deputy Speaker: Member, it’s come to my attention Canada, so the construction benefi ts will occur off shore. I that you’ve actually already spoken on this bill. have absolutely no doubt that this government has made agreements for temporary foreign workers to come in. K. Corrigan: I have, have I? Well, I apologize. I think Petronas’s release, which indicated there were very real concerns they had with our benchmark costs V. Huntington: I will say this has been a very, very dif- for labour and construction, has probably spurred the Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5527

government into making agreements that we do not yet create an industry that is not only going to provide rev- know about. I think that B.C. and its labour market are enue but the jobs that this province needs for the future. going to be the worse for this agreement. [1445] However, I think that the infrastructure presently in When you look at this bill and what it does, it en- the north would become meaningless in a very short sures that we give proponents the opportunity to make space of time, given oil prices, if we did not pursue this those investments, to see that they have a responsibil- last opportunity in the fossil fuel industry. I believe that ity through our protections but also that they are able to we cannot pull the rug out from the job market in the thrive and create the jobs that we all need. north at this point. I know that the Minister of Natural Gas, the Minister So with a great deal of reluctance, I will support this of Finance and the Premier have spent literally months bill. I don’t think it is the right way to go in terms of and months consulting with all of the stakeholders and our climate change. I don’t think it’s providing British with the industry to make sure that we fi nd that balance Columbia with the benefi ts that have been touted. I think between the protection and the ability for the industry we’re all disappointed with that aspect of it. But I think to thrive and to grow. I know that that consultation has the fact is and the reality is that LNG is with us, and we required give-and-take on the part of both the govern- may as well participate in it in order to keep the north ment of British Columbia and the proponents. alive at this point. Th e bill that was introduced refl ects that understand- ing — that government has signifi cant responsibilities. Hon. P. Fassbender: I rise in support of Bill 6. I’ve lis- But we also can look at the industry to take their respon- tened with interest to all of the debate around liquefi ed sibility seriously when it comes to how this is going to natural gas, greenhouse emissions. It has been my experi- move ahead in the province of British Columbia. ence that every person in this House is concerned about Right now we have 18 — 18 — potential LNG projects the future of our environment, that we recognize the in the province. Now, the question keeps being asked: is importance of setting in the protocols and the steps that that a pipedream? I will pardon the pun. But the reality are necessary to ensure that we have the cleanest LNG is that those 18 are serious proponents that are looking industry in the world. at what potential there is for them. As members in this House know, the bill that was pre- What we’ve done with each and every one of them is to viously introduced that sets the benchmarks was done ensure they clearly understand the regulatory framework to clearly ensure that we set the standard for the clean- that they need to operate in, the environmental protec- est LNG industry of any jurisdiction on this globe. Th at tions that we are expecting of them, but also to look at is important. how we can ensure that they can be successful. I am very While the benefi ts of LNG are obvious, what is also ob- clear in my own mind that we will not immediately see vious is that we have a signifi cant responsibility to future all 18, but what we will do is see two or three that will generations to ensure that the environmental protection come on line and begin a road to prosperity for the prov- that we put in place is there. So while I appreciate the ince of British Columbia that is unparalleled in our past. concerns and the passion which some of them have ex- Th at also speaks to the fact that those proponents are pressed, I also clearly recognize that the government has, going to make their decisions based on the components through the initiatives and the legislation that we have that I talked about — their ability, through the tax regime, brought forward, done everything we can to ensure that to make money and their responsibility to protect the en- we protect the environment and the beautiful province vironment and to do it in the best interests of all British that we are so blessed to be able to live in. Columbians, including future generations’ ability to get It’s important that there are two balances — in my jobs in that industry. view and, I believe, the view of our government — when Our tax system, in addition to creating a platform that it comes to opening opportunities for the private sec- is appropriate for the industry, also does a number of tor to realize benefi ts of an industry, no matter what it other things, as we looked at rival jurisdictions around is. We well know that this government has a track rec- the world. ord of ensuring the safety of industries across the sec- When I look at those rival jurisdictions, some of them tors, whether it be mining, whether it be forestry, and are equally as concerned and have regulatory regimes in now with the potential of LNG, liquefi ed natural gas, as place to deal with the environmental impact, but I be- an opportunity for us. lieve there are some that do not have those same stan- We also recognize that in order for us to ensure that dards. Our standards will now set the new benchmark we protect the province and our natural resources, we for protecting the environment, for ensuring that we lay equally have a responsibility to the proponents to ensure the groundwork for a safe and an appropriate industry that we have a tax regime that ensures that they are able when it comes to the environment. to do that successfully, because we are looking at literally British Columbia is blessed with large reserves of nat- billions upon billions of dollars of investment by them to ural gas that are in close proximity to the proposed facili- 5528 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

ties that these proponents are looking at. We have, and L. Krog: I want to preface my remarks about Bill 6 by continue to train, a skilled workforce that is going to meet saying that I was much moved by the remarks of the in- the needs of those proponents. dependent member for Delta South, who I think refl ects We have infrastructure that supports it throughout the the growing unease felt by British Columbians around province, and this is one of the things that I think is excit- the whole concept of how we’re going to maintain an ing about this new opportunity for this province. Every energy-driven society. By what methods are we going to community in the province of British Columbia has the heat our homes and transport our goods and supply our potential benefi t — not just from the benefi ts that we electricity, whatever the case may be? get through the taxes and the revenue that we’ll receive It is something to remember and keep in the back of through royalties, but it also creates jobs in those com- our minds constantly, because if there is one thing that munities by providing the infrastructure and the support I’m conscious of, it is certainly that generation born in that the industry is going to need. the ’30s and thereaft er and those generations that have [1450] followed that have enjoyed the greatest economic benefi t We also know that if we have some of the largest re- of any generation or generations in history. serves, the best quality of natural gas, the ability to get One can’t help but refl ect on the fact, as I’ve pointed it to the facilities in a timely fashion and the ability to out many times, that in British Columbia in particular put it on the seas to deliver it to the markets around the that wealth and that benefi t and those great opportunities world…. Our transport times and rates that we have to were largely a result of the exploitation of our God-given ensure the delivery of that product to the markets that natural resources. When one goes out into the rotunda, need it are signifi cant. as I’ve pointed out many times, and you look up, you I mentioned the quality of our natural gas. Th e extrac- will see the great industries of this province, the great tion temperature of the natural gas in British Columbia economic basics of this province — agriculture, forestry, and the environmental temperatures that will reduce the mining and fi shing. energy costs during the production of liquefi ed natural When my wife and I were driving down-Island from gas again contribute to the protection of our environ- Black Creek yesterday and we drove past what used to be ment. known as northwest bay camp — just literally south of I know that many people in this province are asking Parksville, on the edge — I pointed out to my wife that the question: is this a real opportunity? It absolutely is. It in its heyday, when MacMillan Bloedel was running at is a time-sensitive opportunity that we need to take ad- full steam, there were over 600 people employed at that vantage of as quickly as we can, but not at the expense site alone, all to do with the extraction of resources — in — not at the expense — of our environment or the pro- that case, timber. tection of the rights and the needs of the people of British [1455] Columbia. One can argue that like liquid natural gas, which pre- Th e emission benchmark and the fl exible options that sents a signifi cant opportunity for British Columbians…. have been built into the legislation that was previously Nevertheless, the province diversifi ed over time, and introduced in this House are going to ensure that the things have improved. Th ere are now great numbers of revenues that fl ow from this industry will be put to good people employed in the service sector. Th ere are people use, either through the off sets that may be necessary or employed in the technological sector. Th ere are people the contributions to the technology fund that are going employed in communications. Th ere are people doing to help to develop this industry and help other jurisdic- cartoons in Vancouver that get seen around the world. tions as we move forward. One would, I think, be able to fi nd a message in that, It’s clear to me that liquefi ed natural gas is indeed a and that is that the economic basis of the province has fuel of choice for the future for many countries. Th e de- somewhat shift ed. Yet here we have a Premier and a gov- mands around the world are going to continue to grow, ernment around liquid natural gas, which puts me in and the opportunity for British Columbia to benefi t by mind of that expression that Andrew Carnegie, who was being in that industry, ensuring that we do what we need the founder of U.S. Steel and the man who had a mon- to do, is to ensure that we are going to have a strong and opoly on it, said so wisely once: “Put all your eggs in one healthy economy, that we’re going to continue to balance basket, and then watch that basket.” our budget year aft er year and that we’re going to be able Well, that’s good when you have a monopoly, but the to invest in the future of British Columbians in all of the problem with liquid natural gas is we have anything but sectors that we speak about so oft en in this House, in- a monopoly. We know that there are countries around cluding education, health care and other public services. the world that are discovering quantities of natural gas I totally support this bill. I totally support our govern- that they didn’t think they even had. I won’t exaggerate ment’s initiative to be there, to be there in a timely fashion — because that seems to have become the language of and to recognize how we can set a standard in the world B.C. politics so much — and say it’s every day, but it is that will be second to none. sincerely very clear that we’re not the only player in the Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5529

fi eld when it comes to liquid natural gas. we know? We know that the Premier herself has prom- With the opposition, I think it has been accused of be- ised a debt-free B.C. Oh my goodness, if you want to go ing a naysayer around the development and exploitation over the top, there’s one. of liquid natural gas. I see one of the members over there According to the B.C. budget, B.C.’s debt is scheduled nodding his head sagely — unless he’s actually speaking to reach — wait for it — $68.9 billion by March 31, 2017. to his electronic device — indicating agreement with [1500] what I’ve just had to say. Th at’s not a generation away. Th at’s not a decade away. In developing liquid natural gas, surely it is appropri- Th at’s less than 2½ years. ate to ensure that the four conditions the Leader of the Opposition, the member for Juan de Fuca, has so care- Interjections. fully and wisely expressed should be foremost in our minds around liquefi ed natural gas and the tax regime L. Krog: Now, I know I’ve got the members chirping that fl ows from it. In order for it to move ahead, it should now, and I’m always pleased when the members opposite include express guarantees of jobs and training oppor- actually pay some attention to the opposition. tunities for British Columbians; provide a fair return for Th e member who wants to be Attorney General chirps our resource; include benefi ts for First Nations, who have up, wanting to get into the front rows again. Surely the been shut out of the economic pie in this province ever member is not suggesting that it’s being in the gutter to since fi rst contact, to a large extent; and protect our air, move into the Offi ce of the Attorney General. I’m sure land and water, including living up to our climate com- that’s not what he meant to say. mitments. Now he’s even questioning my dress. I’m shocked and You know, at least when we were cutting down the for- hurt. Th e member for one of the Fraser Valley ridings est with wild abandon, there was signifi cant employment only earlier liked my tie. But that’s another day. — the kind of employment I referred to earlier at north- What’s driving this? I’ll tell you what’s driving this. It west bay. Th at was just one camp — one camp, 600 jobs. is not necessarily public policy, which is what should be Th ose were union jobs. Th ose were jobs that existed in a the driver behind it. It is the tawdry thing that many of day when a single, employed, adult member of a family us have to acknowledge, and that is good old politics, raw could support a family. B.C. politics. “We made the big promise. We won an elec- Th e suggestion is that somehow liquid natural gas is tion. We’ve got to deliver.” [Applause.] going to give us all of that again. Well, I think it’s pretty My goodness. If that was enthusiasm for liquid natur- clear from the evidence that there will be a signifi cant al gas, I must say the future of liquid natural gas doesn’t construction boom of a limited variety. Th e member for look too promising in British Columbia. Delta South again wisely pointed out that there’s some What’s the problem? Th e problem, as I said, is politic- suggestion now we’re not even going to see the construc- al. We have a government that has made commitments tion jobs of the facilities themselves in British Columbia. around liquid natural gas that it probably can’t fulfi l. We We’re essentially going to see the puzzle shipped over have promises of plants that may never be built. We have here. We get to put it together, but we don’t get to make promises of investment that have yet to come to fruition. the puzzle. As we have already dropped, as I said, from 7 percent Why is the opposition going to support this bill? to 3½ percent in terms of the liquid natural gas tax rate, Because fi rstly, we, too, have faith in liquid natural gas. you could argue that perhaps the government has even But, hon. Speaker…. sold us out for their politics again, instead of relying on public policy. Interjections. It’s rather amusing. Th e explanation for it is — and I attributed the change — that it’s due to “economic con- L. Krog: We are? No, we’re not going to support it. I ditions changing.” I understand the economy. I know knew that the members would jump up. the members opposite think nobody over here does. We What’s the problem with the bill? It is the govern- understand the economy. But when the tax is profit- ment’s own action around this in the last few months. based, it’s really not the changing economic conditions We’ve gone from a tax regime at 7 percent, and now we’re that cause that problem. It’s kind of odd. It’s like the B.C. down to 3½. Liberals don’t understand how the tax works: if you don’t I almost feel we should rush this bill through the make a profi t, you don’t pay tax. Legislature lest we end up with a situation where we ac- In my experience, most of the business people I have tually have to drop the tax to 1¾. It’s dropping by a half dealt with in my community over time — and there every once in a while. have been many — have always been more interested What’s the reason for the promotion of liquid natural in their revenue issues than they are in their taxation gas? Well, it is, I think, the fi ght between politics versus issues. Th ere is nothing sweeter than to have to go to an public policy. When it comes to public policy, what do accountant at the end of the year and try and fi gure out 5530 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

every possible deduction you can manage in order to re- emphasis on liquid natural gas. Th ey have put their pol- duce the income tax you’re going to be paying. But no- itical eggs in one basket. Th ey don’t know what else to body can rush out at the end of the year, unless you’re a do. Th ey don’t appear to have any signifi cant ability to happy retailer, and solve the revenue problem. address the increasing provincial debt. Market conditions. We know they’re always changing. I remember, happily, back in the ’90s, when the prov- Does that mean the tax, as I suggested earlier, is going incial debt was being increased to create significant to drop now from 3½ to 1¾? Is it going to get worse? I infrastructure around the province — whether it be the mean, is the end in sight, where we’ll actually, at some building of the inland Island highway or other things — point, if things continue to decline in the Liberal world and how the Liberals were screaming that the end was view, have to pay someone to take our gas? Is that how near. You thought the world was going to collapse and far it’s going to go? British Columbia would disappear as an economic power It’s only this government’s incredible political promises — that things would get so bad. that have put us into this place. It’s only the incredible We on this side have no problem with infrastructure political promises. Instead of talking about good pub- and no problem with exploiting public resources in a lic policy, we’re still talking politics. Th at is one of the sensible and reasonable way. But the expectations that problems. We have infl ated the expectations of British have been infl ated around this are so signifi cant and so Columbians, and not just the happy generation who have unrealistic, all it will ultimately do is lead to a further enjoyed the prosperity that follows the postwar boom in destruction of public confidence in the political pro- the western world, generally. cess, because at some point the voters of B.C. are going We’ve infl ated, unreasonably, the hopes and aspira- to wake up and think to themselves that they got sold a tions of all those young people, fi rstly, who are still wait- bill of goods again. ing to get trained by a government that hasn’t bothered We have seen the rushes in the province’s history, to put in place the kind of training regime that it should whether it’s the gold rush, or the rush to exploit furs, or have in order to ensure you have the workers in the fi rst timber, or fi sh. Whatever the case may be, it’s been over place. We have infl ated the expectations of their parents and over again…. — that those kids won’t be part of the boomerang gen- eration, that they’ll actually have good employment and M. Farnworth: Water licences. decent jobs, that they’ll be able to participate fully in the economy and enjoy the same kinds of benefi ts their par- L. Krog: Water licences. Yes, we’ve seen that gold ents’ generation did. rush too. Th e gold rushes on our rivers. You don’t have [1505] to go very far. You can trot up to the library. Any of the It’s becoming increasingly apparent that that isn’t the members opposite can go read George Bowering’s book case. Th at is simply not the case. We on this side of the about British Columbia’s history, Bowering’s B.C.: A House are asking that the government try and be realis- Swashbuckling History. tic about what liquid natural gas can do. Th e attitudes have not changed. Everybody gets ex- I think one of the members earlier today used the term cited. We think we’re involved in another gold rush, and “transformational.” It seems to me I recall a Premier — away we go. Surely, at some stage the political discourse wasn’t it? — who used the term “transformational change.” in this province will have to start to resolve itself around Wasn’t that somewhere in a throne speech or something? the concept of facts and some credibility and some hon- I am looking to our House Leader for a little guidance esty and good public policy. and assistance here. If this government could deliver all these gas plants…. It’s just like I said to the Minister of Housing once: if M. Farnworth: Several throne speeches. he’d put the housing unit up in my community, I would thank him publicly and personally. And I did. If this L. Krog: Several throne speeches: transformational government can deliver on all those plants in the time change. What is that French expression? Plus ça change, frame they’ve indicated, I think we’d all be quite excited, plus c'est la même chose. Th e more things change, the assuming they would remain operational and British more they stay the same. Columbians would be employed, not temporary foreign Here we are, once again, being promised this bright workers. future around one resource, and yet all of the evidence If that young generation following us could see a future, would indicate that in order to succeed in the modern if the government would retrieve the resource revenues economy, in the modern world, in any economy going that they believe they are entitled to, obviously — that up against the problems of globalization…. Going back we need and we all want to have…. Aft er all, when the to Andrew Carnegie, putting all those eggs in one basket liquid natural gas is gone, there goes that revenue source. just doesn’t make sense anymore. Indeed, that’s one of the problems with the Liberal’s Interjection. Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5531

L. Krog: Th at’s the problem with it. Th e member says less of, which are carbon-based fuels, and said that we 150 years. Goodness gracious. If we’ve got 150 years, have to move into the use of liquid natural gas because probably someone in Russia has 150 years, and someone it creates less pollution — instead of, I would argue, this else someplace else has 150 years. government’s opportunity to signifi cantly invest in the I know that member prides himself on being an in- kind of technological change, the kind of research and tellectual, so I know he’s aware that the government of the kind of development of bright young minds to fi nd China is sending a great deal of its fl eet into the China Sea. alternate sources of energy that do not have the signifi - Th ere are signifi cant oil and gas fi nds there that they want cant environmental impact that has occurred over the to get their political hands on, quite appropriately. What previous decades, literally since the 19th century, when we’re conscious of is that, unlike some of the doomsayers we started to use oil in a signifi cant way. of a decade or two ago, there appears to be more oil and Th ey’ve had that opportunity, but they’ve chosen not more liquid natural gas available than we ever thought. to exploit it for whatever reason. [1510] What we do know is that the government is losing On one hand, you can say, “Th at’s wonderful,” but the ground on this one. We may well have missed the boat, implications are that the market for it, therefore, is much and the government will have to deal with the political diminished — that it will not be the great boon that the fallout that fl ows from it. B.C. Liberals and the Premier herself have promised over I hear the Minister of Energy and Mines. I’m always and over again. It will not deliver the kinds of revenues. pleased to hear from him. He’s very gracious. I noticed What it will clearly not deliver is the debt-free B.C. that today he didn’t take the opportunity when I talked about we were promised. the ’90s. He chose not to use his favourite phrase now I mean, even the Minister of Finance has taken some that he’s become so well known for when he refers to it time now and used very careful words to talk about…. as being in the last century, unless, of course, you’re talk- Perhaps the time at which the debt will disappear may ing about the NDP. Th en, of course, I guess it’s the dismal be somewhat longer than what we’d anticipated. Th ere’s a decade as opposed to last century. little blush off that rose, and one can understand that. It’s What we do know is this. Th e government made a always good for somebody on the opposite side to inject promise. The government made a commitment. The just a tiny note of realism into the government’s expecta- government infl ated expectations. Th e government has tions around liquid natural gas. Again, I come back to it: raised the bar, and the government’s got to deliver. I just good public policy versus bad public policy. don’t sincerely believe they can. Good public policy means that this government [1515] would have been moving forward with this some time It’s unfortunate because in the days when there were ago, would have realized changing market conditions, higher rates of unionization in this province, when there would not have infl ated expectations and would have were of tens of thousands of people employed in the re- had this tax regime or any regime in place much sooner source industry, able to support their families and sup- so that just maybe we might have caught this last wave port their communities, it was, in a sense, a golden era. of investment. Th e B.C. Federation of Labour represented that golden We know that these international investment compan- era — all of those decent, good-paying jobs created as ies — these international oil and gas companies — are a result of the hard work of unions across this province looking for opportunities all around the planet. Th ey and leaders in every community trying to do the best will check out all kinds of regimes. As much as we are for the workers. close to the Pacifi c Rim, China signed — what was it? — I can’t close today without making reference to Jim a $400 billion deal with Russia — May 2014, a 30-year Sinclair, who will leave office this week after a distin- deal, $400 billion U.S. I don’t know where this govern- guished career as head of the B.C. Federation of Labour. ment comes from, but I’ve got to tell you, back home in And I do have to pay my compliments to the members op- dear old Nanaimo $400 billion is a pretty big number, and posite, who clapped with as much enthusiasm as the mem- a 30-year deal indicates a pretty signifi cant commitment. bers on this side of the House did, extolling his virtues. China’s already secured that with Russia. If China I don’t mean to be too cheeky and no disrespect to Jim is able to exercise sovereignty over the South China Sinclair, who’s a friend and a person I admire and who Sea, settles its issues with Vietnam and, perhaps, the knows my feelings about him and his incredible contri- Philippines, they will have another source, a signifi cant bution. It puts me in mind of the story about Tommy source, of the very thing which the member for Delta Douglas. He was being toured around…. South talked about — that is, the realization that we have to shift our sources of energy from the traditional Interjection. carbon-based in order to literally save the planet. We’ve tied our horse with this government to some- L. Krog: If the member will just be quiet, I’ll tell the thing which the world recognizes they should be using story. But I know the member loves to hear his own voice, 5532 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

so perhaps he should go into a closet somewhere and good work that was done is now being shunted aside as talk to himself. this government does its best to try and exploit the last He was being toured around a university in Scotland by, card it has to play, which is liquid natural gas. of course, the local establishment. Th ere was a statue of As I said, I’d be delighted if they’d build all the plants this long-dead radical leader, and they were all admiring it. and if the employment would be generated the way it has Douglas was looking up, being welcomed home to his na- been promised. But — what is it? — Missouri is the Show tive country. Of course, he turned to those assembled and Me State. So show me. said, looking at the establishment around him: “Th ere’s [1520] nothing the establishment so loves as a dead socialist.” We’ve got two and a half years to the next election. Well, what I’m suggesting is that the enthusiasm for Show me that all the promises that were made in 2013 are Mr. Sinclair may refl ect the fact that he’s going to be out going to come to pass, that all of the jobs that have been of offi ce shortly and not able to help lead the fi ght against promised are going to be created, that all of the revenue this government. And that is too bad. that’s been promised is going to start to fl ow, that all of the By way of coming back to my remarks about liquid bright future promises that have been made about British natural gas and the importance of decent, union-paying Columbia and what it’s going to be like will be fulfi lled. jobs, Jim Sinclair would be leading that fi ght to fi nd de- It’s rather like my grandson. I have two. Th e fi ve-year- cent jobs. Th at’s what the opposition wants out of liquid old told grandma he wants a trail bike for Christmas. natural gas. We want decent jobs for British Columbians. Now, I must tell the House that grandma and grandpa We want our share for our families and our children and are not going to buy him a trail bike. our grandchildren. We want to ensure that it’s developed responsibly. We want to ensure that we get that return Interjections. which we deserve. I’ve still got the pencil — a 1972 NDP pencil. Th e L. Krog: No, and Santa isn’t either. As the members line on it says: “You’ll pay more for this pencil than B.C. well know, fi rstly, it would be illegal for a child to ride a gets for royalties on a ton of coal.” It’s one of the reasons vehicle of that type at that age. But he’s got to be realistic W.A.C. Bennett lost the ’72 election — because British about his expectations for Christmas. Columbians sensed, fi nally, that they were being sold out. Th ey were being sold out in terms of their patrimony and Interjections. the wealth of this province. Th at’s why we’re asking: has the government struck the L. Krog: Not that mean. I promise to send the chirpy deal with this bill? Are we getting the return we deserve member opposite a bag of coal for Christmas so he can on our resources and, in particular, natural gas gener- keep warm. ally — not necessarily liquefi ed natural gas? Are we get- He’s got to be realistic; this government has to be real- ting that return? istic. I look forward to seeing how that dose of realism More importantly, are the First Nations of this prov- actually is taken in by this government. Let’s just see 2½ ince — the original occupiers of the land, the people who years from now who’s still promoting a debt-free B.C. have occupied the land since time immemorial — going and liquid natural gas as the great saviour of this prov- to get the benefi t that they so richly deserve, let alone for ince. I look forward to it. I’m delighted by the concept their current compensation but as some form of compen- that this government has wrapped itself in that fl ag, has sation for all of that which has been taken from them? tied itself to that wagon — every cliché and excuse you For our children and our grandchildren, are we going can use. Let’s just see how far we get with it. Let’s just see to protect our air and our land and our water and live up how far we get. to our climate commitments? We saw with a previous bill this session that the commitment to climate change and Hon. A. Wilkinson: It’s always impressive to note how the good work that undertook when the member opposite, and the members opposite more he was Premier seems to have become shocking…. generally, can turn a generational opportunity into bad news. Th e members opposite seem to have no faith in the Interjection. abilities of our people to work in highly sophisticated en- vironments to attract capital and to attract employment. L. Krog: Oh well, the member says it’s the fi rst time Th at’s why we are here, and to be blunt, that’s why this he’d heard it. I’m sure that if he reads Hansard, he can party got elected in the last election. see my remarks. The member opposite laments the involvement or Th e good work that was done to move this province lack thereof, in his mind, of First Nations. He apparently forward in acknowledging what the president of the hasn’t spoken with Mr. Ross Ellis, chief of the Haisla First United States now and even the president of China are Nation, who speaks at every opportunity and will be in acknowledging — even the president of China…. Th e Toronto talking to an international conference put on Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5533

by Th e Economist in about two weeks about the oppor- We’re looking at a potential 18 LNG projects in British tunities in British Columbia related to natural gas, and Columbia. Th at speaks for itself. It’s almost impossible how deeply and thoroughly involved his First Nation is to get a hotel room in Terrace. It’s almost impossible in this opportunity. to charter a helicopter anywhere in northern British Now, the members opposite also seem to think that the Columbia because there is so much activity going on by world is full of bad market opportunities, that we have all all of these proponents in determining their prospects our eggs in one basket, that we have no confi dence in our in this space. own people, that pessimism should rule the day. In fact, Do we expect 18 LNG plants to materialize? No. But the markets are prime for this opportunity. we do expect a good number of those to materialize, Liquid natural gas, as I said earlier, is a generation- along with the feeder pipelines in the gas fi elds of north- al opportunity. It means that British Columbians can eastern British Columbia and the delivery pipelines that unlock a resource that was previously very diffi cult to will traverse northern British Columbia to the coast. extract and is now entirely feasible for extraction and ex- Th is will generate enormous opportunities for British port. All of us know, through common sense, common Columbians and for the people of the entire province knowledge and reading the newspapers, that the North through the tax revenues, through the employment op- American markets for natural gas will be saturated in the portunities, through the training opportunities and all of next decades. And so we have the obligation, if we can, to the benefi ts that arise from massive investments in highly serve the public interest by exporting our gas in liquefi ed sophisticated industries. form to the active markets in Asia. That level of capital investment, of course, gener- Th is is truly a generational opportunity, again, recog- ates training and employment opportunities. British nized in Th e Economist last week in its special insert sec- Columbians will and can become leaders in this fi eld, just tion on the economy of Pacifi c Ocean countries. as Albertans are leaders worldwide in oil fi eld services, Th e Canadian natural gas opportunity is amongst the just as mining development is based primarily in the city best in the world. Th at is not really in doubt anywhere of Vancouver on a worldwide market basis. Th e talent is except on the opposite side of this House. Th e introduc- here, the skills are here, and they will be deployed and tion of the LNG income tax gives proponents the cer- developed right here in British Columbia. tainty they’ll need to make decisions. Th ey have to put We have another great advantage, and that is the rule together their entire capital model to fi nd the fi nancing of law. It’s not just large reserves of natural gas. It’s not and to put together projects that will actually be viable in just a skilled workforce. It’s not just our robust infrastruc- the marketplace. Th is is not a simple task, and this gov- ture. It’s not the fact that we are in the right climatic zone ernment has been entirely cooperative by putting our to deliver cool gas for liquefi cation rather than the hot cards on the table. gas found in most markets in the world. Th e rule of law [1525] gives us a distinct advantage. We are not Mozambique Th is bill is probably one of the last cards to be put on or Tanzania. the table so that decisions can be made, so that those Th e member opposite suggests that Russia somehow important capital investments can come to the decision has the leap on us by signing a deal with China for $400 point. Th ese decisions are being made all over the world. billion worth of natural gas over about 40 years. Th at It’s not like they’re being made in Victoria or Vancouver. would amount to about 1 percent of the energy supply Th ey’re being made in the Hague and in Malaysia and for China if — and it’s a big if — Russia is actually pre- in other capitals around the world, because energy mar- pared to deliver it on a reliable basis. I don’t think any of kets are global. us would be rushing to invest in a Russian gas pipeline. Th e members opposite don’t want to hear that. Th ey Yet we have investors from around the world interested think that we can determine the market locally, that we and enthusiastic to invest right here in British Columbia. are vulnerable to foreigners and outsiders coming and Th e LNG tax framework that is the subject of this bill stealing our resources and that we don’t have the skills applies to net income derived from liquefaction activ- here to extract and process those resources ourselves. ities at LNG facilities in B.C. Th is, of course, is in addi- Th ey are entirely wrong in those propositions. tion to all the property taxes, in addition to the income We’ve been consulting with industry on a new rev- taxes from the individuals who’ll be employed in the fi eld. enue framework that will deliver long-term benefi ts to Th e tax rate on net income from those liquefaction British Columbians and provide industry with a certain- activities will be 3.5 percent, eff ective for taxation years ty it requires to be successful, to make those fi nal invest- beginning aft er January 1, 2017. Th is is a reasonable tax ment decisions. Our government is confi dent that British level that responds to market forces, that guarantees a re- Columbia will be a highly competitive, attractive juris- turn for British Columbians. In 2037 the tax rate on net diction for billions of dollars of investment from multi- income will increase to 5 percent. nationals all around the world who are the ones most Th is is a response to market forces, something this active in energy markets. government fully respects and understands and that the 5534 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

members opposite should perhaps take a few courses in portunity from the government, the way that they have so they can bring themselves up to speed. been trying to sell LNG to the people of the province of Th is government is also notable, as is all of Canada, for British Columbia. respect for property. If an investor purchases property, as a number of the multinational energy companies have Interjection. purchased gas rights in northeastern British Columbia, those are ironclad rights. Th ey will not be taken away by M. Farnworth: I see the Minister of Energy made government in a capricious act of the sort that may hap- some comment. Th e issue is not the fact that LNG is go- pen on the east coast of Africa or in Russia. Th is gives us ing to take place. We hope LNG succeeds. Th e reality is a huge advantage in the world energy markets because the hype and the hyperbole that has taken place around all large investors seek, above all else, stability and cer- the issue of LNG in the province of British Columbia. tainty. We off er both. I see the Attorney General applauding. [1530] Th ese are large capital investments that require fi nan- Interjection. cing, and the lenders require stability and certainty. Th at is what we off er. M. Farnworth: Ah, she says: “Applauding the hope.” Th at, of course, trickles down through billions of dol- Well, I think what would be better than applauding the lars of capital investment to provide the kind of pros- hope and pinning your economic policy on hope is, rath- perity that our communities benefi t from. Terrace and er, being realistic and upfront with people in the province Kitimat are going through booms in terms of employ- of British Columbia. ment, in terms of hotel spaces being built, in terms of That’s what the people of this province want. They aircraft charters and in terms of infrastructure. Prince want government to be straight up with them on the Rupert is on the edge of a similar boom. facts — on the opportunity, the costs and the benefi ts, Th is also, of course, benefi ts not just the local com- as well as the impacts. We have yet to see that from this munities along Highway 16 in the north but also our very government. own technology sector. We have the talent. We have the What we have seen, as I said a moment ago, is gen- ideas. We have the companies that can deliver on clean erational spin in action. We saw it prior to the election, tech remedies and solutions for these investors and also where the Premier went around, along with the Attorney on the massive infrastructure and data management de- General and others on that side of the House, saying: mands that they place upon the systems. “Th e debt will be paid off in 15 years if we get LNG going We have an opportunity, as well, to provide a much in British Columbia. Th e province’s debt will be paid off more extensive fi bre optic connection in the north be- in 15 years.” Starting in 2017, we found out aft erwards — cause these linear corridors will be being built. Dropping which is further down the road. some fi bre optics in with those pipelines costs next to “It’s going to be paid off in 15 years. Oh, and then we nothing and provides critical environmental monitoring can get rid of the provincial sales tax, and we can pay off opportunities and a sophisticated and high-volume data B.C. Hydro’s debt.” All these incredible things were going channel for the rest of the province to use, in addition to to happen with LNG, and a $100 billion prosperity fund. the investors themselves. Talk about spin on a generational opportunity level. I’ve In short, this is a generational opportunity that this bill never seen anything quite like it from any government will provide the necessary certainty for so that we can all in this province — all of those things that were promised proceed toward a brighter future with heavy capital in- prior to the election. vestment, with employment, with skills development and Th en aft er the election we were told that, oh, we would a brighter future for all of British Columbia — and, for see a framework in place by the end of last year. Well, that matter, for all of Canada, because we are Canada’s the end of last year came and went, and we didn’t see a Pacifi c province, and the future lies on this ocean. framework. [1535] M. Farnworth: It’s my pleasure to take my place in the We were told in the spring, in the throne speech: “Well, debate on Bill 6, the LNG tax framework bill. It’s an im- it’ll be in the budget. We will start to see the numbers that portant piece of legislation before the House — one that this government is going to…. Th e revenue that we can has been awaited with considerable anticipation for many, expect, the tax rate that these companies that are going to many months now. invest here are going to be paying, and exactly…. Th ose I’ve been listening with interest to the comments from of you who doubt our intent, you will see.” my colleague across the way. Th e thing that has struck Th e budget was tabled, and it was 7 percent. Okay, 7 me…. In his remarks, he used the term “generational percent was the rate of return that this government was opportunity.” Well, all I can say is yes, it’s an opportunity. going to expect on aft er-tax profi ts on LNG plants that But the generational thing? It’s a generational spin op- were to be built in the province of British Columbia. And, Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5535

as the minister himself said a few moments ago: “Th ere are whether it is in Australia, whether it’s in the United States, 18 under consideration.” It’s grown over time. Th ere are 18 whether it’s even in Europe. under consideration. Th is is what we can expect, and this Th e minister, in his previous remarks, said we have is how we’re going to pay off the debt in 15 years, because a 150-year supply. Yeah, we do. So does the United if the tax rate is 7 percent, you’re able to do that. Kingdom, who last year raised their reserves to 150 When you calculate it, it comes out to…. Just over $6 years. So does Russia. In fact, they probably have 300 or billion a year would have to go just on the debt itself to 400 years. So does Qatar. Th ey already have enormous be able to achieve that goal. Th at means no money going reserves which they want to send to India. Australia — to health care, no money going to education, no money huge reserves that have increased dramatically world- going into a prosperity fund. Th at’s just $6 billion a year wide. Yet that was never an issue when the government additional going onto the debt in order to achieve that fi rst made its announcement, but it has since that time. goal in the time frame that the government said, and that All those facts were known back in February when the was at a tax rate of 7 percent on net profi ts. 7 percent was tabled. Th e changes in market conditions Th at was pointed out at the time on this side of the have been taking place for quite some time. Th ose things House and outside this House, in other jurisdictions that have been in place. have much more experience on the petroleum and gas [1540] side of things than this government does — that, you Th e issue around the change in the demand supply know, the government is being a bit unrealistic. It needs within North America…. With the emergence of sig- to kind of bring its expectations down to earth. nifi cant shale gas resources in the United States, there Well, over the last number of months the govern- is less of a need for the resources that we have here in ment has said that they’ve been engaged in negotiations. British Columbia. Th ey’ve had lots of press releases, and they have lots of Th is side of the House has been well aware of those announcements saying a memo of understanding here, market conditions. Th e question and the criticism that a commitment here, a commitment there. But they’ve we have of the government is their reliance on the hype. always waffl ed and said: “No, you’re just going to have We’ve watched over the last several months as you no to wait and see what it is that the province is going to longer hear now the Premier wanting to talk about pay- be receiving.” ing off the debt in 15 years. In fact, if you were to take We had two bills tabled this session, one dealing with that same formula of paying it off in 15 years on the new greenhouse gas emissions and which, as my colleague tax rate, it would be more than 30 years. How’s that for from Nanaimo pointed out, undoes the work that was keeping a promise? done by the previous Premier, Mr. Campbell. But this Like I said, it comes back to: LNG is an opportunity particular piece of legislation also showed, then, exactly for this province that we want to make sure we benefi t what was going to be the government’s fi nal position in from, but it has clearly been a generational spin oppor- terms of the tax rate that it was expecting, the tax rate tunity for the government side of the House. I think that that it was going to achieve for the resource that British has been one of the major concerns. Columbians own — and that British Columbians ex- In terms of the government being able to meet the fi - pect the vast majority of those benefi ts to be here in our nancial promises and the commitments that it said would province. be achieved by LNG, this tax rate is not going to be able It wasn’t 7 percent. It wasn’t 6 percent. It wasn’t 5 per- to do all those things that the government said it would. cent, which many had speculated the government would And that’s unfortunate. drop it to. Th ere was considerable expectation that 5 per- Th ere’s another aspect to LNG and the success of LNG cent would be the number that the government would in British Columbia that British Columbians are looking come in at. No. Instead, the government came in at the towards. Th at is ensuring that the employment opportun- number 3½ percent. Th at is what they said market con- ities, the training opportunities, the skills opportunities ditions would bear. are here in British Columbia — that they’re not for tem- Well, it’s really particularly interesting when you start porary foreign workers. Th ey’re for British Columbians to look at that — what happened between February’s and for Canadians. Again, the government has been out budget and this point in the calendar in terms of mar- saying: “Oh, we have the people. We have the skills. We ket conditions. have the training. We have all those things.” We hear from the members opposite, and we heard Th e Minister of Technology said: “Oh, the opposition from the minister a moment ago, about the changes doesn’t have faith in the people of British Columbia.” No, that have taken place, that it is global market conditions. we do have faith in the people of British Columbia if Everybody knows it’s global market conditions. People they have the opportunity to get the skills and the train- outside this province and on this side of the House have ing — which, unfortunately, under this government for said there are global forces at work, whether it is in Russia, the last decade has not been taking place in the way that whether it is in Qatar, whether it is in Mozambique, it should have. 5536 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

In fact, back in 2003 they were warned. Th ey were ade, I will not be surprised one bit to see it start to hap- warned about the lack of skills training taking place in pen here. We already saw it with HD Mining. this province, and they failed to do anything about it If the opportunity of LNG is to be real for the people until last year, when they said: “Oh my God, there are of this province, they need to understand and need to these projects, but there are labour shortages, potentially. know and have faith that government has their best in- We’ve got to do something about it.” Now they’re trying terests. Th at means, one, the protecting of our environ- to play catch-up on an issue that they were warned about ment. It means, two, ensuring First Nations participation. and warned about and warned about some ten years ago. It means, three, getting a fair rate of fi nancial return. But I don’t see the Attorney General applauding that. Mind for most people, if you were to ask them, it’s that the em- you, it’s not a record I think is deserving of applauding. ployment opportunities are here in this province for the Again, the public have real concerns when it comes to people who live in this province, for the people who built the development of LNG in this province. We’re already this province, for the people who pay taxes in this prov- seeing…. Again, it comes back to…. Th e government ince and for Canadians — that they should be fi rst in line. said market forces and market conditions are all global. When we see the approach that has been taken over the Of course they are. Th is is a globally traded commodity, last ten years and their willingness to say…. In fact, the but it requires labour and skilled people to get it out of Premier is standing up and basically saying that if you’re the ground and to build the pipelines for us to take max- against temporary foreign workers, you’re against immi- imum opportunity of it here in British Columbia. grants, and trying to use some specious, nonsense argument Yet we are faced with global pressures and global chal- about temporary foreign workers being halfway to citizen- lenges from companies outside British Columbia who ship — which they’re not, and she knows that they’re not. come to North America, who come to Canada, who We have a good, strong immigration policy in this come to British Columbia. Th ey want the lowest price country that is based on being able to come into this possible, and you can’t blame them for that. Th at’s their country, for people who have skills and who have edu- job. Th at is what they want to do — to get the product cation and/or skills training, where you don’t surrender they need at the lowest possible price. We all recognize your passport when you come into this country and you that. I mean, the government went out there like some- have the same rights and responsibilities as a landed im- one walking into a bazaar, seeing something and going: migrant, with the exception of voting, as every other “Oh, I like. I like. I like. I like.” Automatically sending Canadian. Th at’s the pathway to citizenship, not tempor- out signals that, well, guess what. Th ey want it so bad, ary foreign workers. Th at’s what people are concerned they’re going to be prepared to not bargain as hard as about, and so far that has not been seen. they might think. Instead, we continue to get the hype. Again, the min- [1545] ister stands and he says: “Oh, the companies are spend- I’m reminded of the comments the Premier said sever- ing all this money in exploration, and they’re doing all al months ago when she was told that there’s going to be these great things in Terrace and Kitimat.” You know downward pressure on the price that other nations, that what? Th ey are spending a lot of money, they are evalu- other companies are prepared to pay for LNG in British ating the opportunity here in British Columbia, and they Columbia. Her comments were very typical. It was: “I am will spend a lot of money. Th at’s the nature of the busi- not worried about that one bit. I will put our negotiators ness. But when they make their decision, they make it up against the ‘price-takers’ in Asia any day of the week. knowing that they’ve spent that much money, and they’re We’ve got nothing to worry about.” Well, it was 7 percent spending money like that in all those other jurisdictions in February; it’s 3½ percent now. as well. Th ey’re doing their assessments, and then they’ll Th ose companies who made it clear that the tax rate make their fi nal investment decisions. was not good at 7 percent and needed to come down sig- We have lots of advantages and lots of strengths. No nifi cantly are now making more demands that are also one is disputing that. But there is a responsibility on the concerning people in this province. You’re seeing it next part of government, I think, to say: “Yeah, we have lots door in Alberta where a number of energy companies out of strengths and lots of advantages, but there is a lot of of Asia are saying that they fi nd — they’re complaining competition.” Th e reality is if we get one or we get two, to the federal government — that Canadian workers are that’s going to be great. Th at’s a positive. too expensive, that Canadian managers are too expensive, [1550] that they don’t want to pay the going rate here in Canada Th is constant hype that we have seen in terms of pay- for skilled professionals. ing off the debts, giving people unrealistic expectations They’re wanting to bring workers from their own in terms of just what LNG will generate, does the push countries here to do jobs that are already being done by for LNG a disservice. It does people a disservice. Th at’s Canadians or should be being done by Canadians who not what should be happening. would get training. It’s happening in Alberta. Given this government’s record of lack of training over the last dec- Interjection. Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5537

M. Farnworth: I hear my colleague from Surrey say- Columbia. Yet the members opposite seem to think we ing: “So you’re voting for it.” Well, you’ll fi nd out when shouldn’t even talk about that — that it shouldn’t even be we have the vote. something that is considered. It’s no wonder why they’re What I’ve said — and I think what all of us have said — sitting on that side of the House. is that LNG is an opportunity for this province. I’d like to Th e member for Port Coquitlam talked about train- see it succeed. But what concerns me is this hyperinfl a- ing and what we need to do to create the potential here. tion of expectation for people. One only has to look at it We’ve more than tripled the number of people that have from when what was tabled in February, at 7 percent, is been in training in trades. Th at’s what we have done since now 3½ percent and all the pressures that are still going 2001 in British Columbia. Do we need to do more? Yes. to come on the province before any agreements are fi nal- [1555] ized, any fi nal investments are made, any plants are built Th at is what our jobs plan is all about, which is what and the province receives any revenue. we’ve laid out. We’ve taken great strides. Th e member With that, I think I’ve made my points that I want opposite would have you believe that nothing has hap- to make. I look forward to the member for Surrey- pened in this province. Th e benefi ts of liquefi ed natural Panorama participating in the debate. I know there are gas to British Columbia are clear: literally, the potential other members who will be speaking. I look forward to for hundreds of billions of dollars from investment; it will hearing what they have to say. create thousands upon thousands of jobs; and it will open up communities in the northwest that have struggled for Hon. J. Rustad: It’s a pleasure to rise today to speak in many, many decades now, and open up potential for them support of Bill 6. You know, I want to start off by saying to see real growth and meaningful growth. that what Bill 6 does and what we have been doing with I think about what is going on in Kitimat — the train- the legislation this fall in a lot of the debate is to help to ing opportunities, the unemployment level drop, the de- provide certainty for the investment community and help, mand for housing, the prosperity that’s happening in that also, to show the stability that we have in our province. community. Th e member for Skeena, when he got up and I’ve listened to the member for Port Coquitlam in- talked about this in his throne speech response, talked tensely as he talked about the thought that isn’t a gen- about that as a problem. Th is isn’t a problem. Th is is an erational opportunity. I fi nd that interesting, in that we opportunity. Th is is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that have a window of time to attract…. Just think: one pro- will transform communities, especially for First Nations. ject would be $36 billion. Th at’s Petronas, potentially. A First Nations want LNG to happen. Th ey want to be second project, for example, Shell — I think they’ve put able to see the benefi ts. We want to make sure that First their numbers out — is going to be close to $40 billion. Nations can build wealthy and healthy communities that Th ere are 18 possible projects. Do the math. Th ere has have the potential to fully participate in this opportunity. never been another opportunity in British Columbia When the members opposite stand up and want to like the one we have today, and it is up to us to seize it delay the project…. Th ey come out and say things like and to have that certainty for that industry — not for the “Government’s moving too fast” but then “Government’s not members opposite to get up and just dismiss it as if it was moving fast enough” or “It’s disastrous if it takes off ” but something just in the passing. “We must exploit this opportunity.” When they send those Creating certainty is what is also critical, as I men- mixed messages, what are they saying? Th ey’re saying to tioned from the beginning. Th e LNG tax. Th is bill, Bill 6, First Nations communities and to all of British Columbians lays out what companies need to do within the province that they seem to care less if this opportunity was there. in terms of a taxation regime. Th e previous bill that we Th is is an opportunity that, for example, the Haisla had debate on here, which the opposition voted against have seized, along with the other things that are going and voted to delay, lays the certainty around the environ- on in the Kitimat area…. It has literally transformed their ment and what we need to do in this province. community. Th ey’ve gone from 65 percent unemploy- What the opposition seems to want to do is just to say ment to somewhere around 15 percent unemployment. that, yes, they support LNG but that, no, they don’t want Th e amount of training and opportunities that have been it to happen. Th ey want delays. Yes, they support the idea involved for that nation is phenomenal. of LNG, but no, they don’t want to extract the gas. Th ey We were just down here last week celebrating Nisga’a don’t want to use fracking. “Yes, we want to see LNG.” But entering into an agreement with the province and then they call it a pipedream. Th at is not certainty, that previously having entered into an agreement with kind of talk. All that kind of talk does is show to investors, TransCanada Pipelines. What that will do for that treaty should they have had the fortune to be in government, nation is phenomenal. It creates revenue streams. It cre- that they can’t do business in B.C. ates strength. It creates opportunities for entrepreneur- It’s not wrong to think about what you can do, to ialism. It literally transform lives. Th at’s a generational think about what the future could possibly be, to try to opportunity, if I’ve ever seen one. Th e members opposite lay a path that will see prosperity for people in British just pooh-poohed…. 5538 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

When I look at other communities up and down the places, if you’d like. For example, “Embracing LNG op- line for the pipes and when I look at what’s going on in portunity equals insanity” was said by one of the mem- Prince Rupert and the potential for Metlakatla and Lax bers from Victoria on April 3, on Gen Why Media video, Kw’alaams and when I look at what’s going on up in the of 2013. northeast and the opportunity for First Nations there, it “LNG is a fantasy” was said by a member from the is absolutely remarkable what this will do. Tri-Cities on February 14, 2014. I could go on and on We need to seize this opportunity. We need to be out and give you dates from all of those quotes. But the re- promoting it. We need to be out talking about it. We need ality is simple. Th is Legislature should show all British to attract investment. We need to make sure that when Columbians that we need to be strong and bold in sup- those companies make the decisions on where they’re go- port of the creation of an LNG industry. Th at’s why I felt it ing to spend the billions upon billions of dollars, British important to stand up and support Bill 6, as I have stood Columbia is right up near the top. up in support of the other bills around LNG. We also, of course, want to make sure that when we do Th at’s why I think it’s important we send this message this, we can leave an environmental legacy. It’s why we in a timely way, so when industry makes their decisions, announced the LNG environmental stewardship initia- they know that they have a stable government in British tive, working with First Nations on environmental stew- Columbia, that they have a welcoming environment in ardship projects that can help meet many of the things British Columbia, that we can provide them with the cer- that First Nations would like to achieve on the land base. tainty and we can provide them with that potential so that We can do that through the potential investment that they will bring those dollars here and create those jobs we’re going to get from liquefi ed natural gas. and create that future. We’ve been out talking with First Nations about train- ing — how we want to make sure that the training op- [R. Chouhan in the chair.] portunity is there in advance of these projects so that they can take full advantage of the work that is coming. We’re With that, I just want to say to all members of the out working with communities all across the north, non– House: embrace this. Stand up and support it. Stand up First Nations communities, talking about how this will and support what this will do for all British Columbians. change and how we can work with them in support of the Quit being wishy-washy about all aspects of this. Let’s various projects as they come down the pipe. get on with building liquefied natural gas in British Th is is a time to be bold. Th is is a time, as one legisla- Columbia and all the potential it can bring. ture, to be able stand up and support a direction in lique- fi ed natural gas that will be the generational opportunity J. Kwan: I speak to Bill 6, the Liquefi ed Natural Gas that we talk about. Income Tax Act. [1600] I can’t help but comment on some of the remarks that Th is is the time to stand up, to vote and say: “Yes, we the government members have made around this bill in want liquefi ed natural gas in B.C. We want to support the relation to what the opposition’s point of views are. Let natural gas industry. We want to support the environ- me just put it on the record very clearly, for everyone, so mental standards that are going to make it successful. We that there is no confusion whatsoever in terms of the op- want those jobs that are going to be created to be there position’s point of view on the natural gas industry. for British Columbians, for Canadians.” Th e opposition has always taken this perspective: that We also want to welcome new Canadians. We don’t is, to say that liquefi ed natural gas industry is far too im- want to be anti-immigration. We want workers from all portant for us to get wrong in terms of how we proceed, around the world to be able to come to British Columbia how to move forward and what the promises are from and to become Canadians and help to build the fabric of the government. our society, just like we have for generations. We’ve always said that there are four essential prin- This opportunity — the opposition, I think, quite ciples that we want incorporated into the development frankly would like to see it fail. That is a real shame. of this industry. Th at is to ensure that there would be When you look at all of their comments, the types of guarantees of jobs and training opportunities for British things that they say: “It will never create jobs” or “LNG is Columbians. That’s what we’ve always said — as op- dangerous” — all of these quotes coming from opposition posed to the government’s fi rst order of business, which members — or “Embracing this opportunity is equal to is to turn to an alternative source for jobs and training. insanity” and “LNG is a fantasy….” Primarily, they have been very much focused on foreign temporary workers. Interjections. Th e opposition has always said that we wanted a fair return for our resources, much like for all of our natural Hon. J. Rustad: I can give you all the dates and times of resources. We don’t actually stem away from that basic the words that you guys said in this Legislature and other core principle: that is to say, these resources belong to all Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5539

of us. Every single British Columbian has ownership of tax rate of 7 percent. Th at was actually part of the govern- that resource, and we want a fair return of that resource ment’s budget. Seven percent was what they said. back to British Columbians. And what have we got here? Bill 6 does not talk about [1605] 7 percent. It actually talks about 3½ percent, at best. Th e Th e opposition has had a long history and continues LNG tax rate has been reduced by half. Th at’s really what to take leadership on this issue: that is, to respect the we’re talking about. Th e government says one thing, and First Nations community, respecting them and recog- they turn right around and do another — really true to nizing them. In this instance, it’s not any diff erent. What the Premier’s pattern of behaviour, exactly what she does we’ve always said is that the LNG industry needs to in- with pretty well everything. clude benefi ts for the aboriginal community, for the First Th e government says that they had to do this, though. Peoples of this land. Th ey always have a justifi cation for things like this. Th ey Last but not least, we’ve always said, as well, that doing said they had to do this because of changing market con- all of this work is always a balance. As a core principle, we ditions. Well, interestingly, the market conditions ac- need to protect our land, our air and our water, including tually didn’t change all that much. Th at’s the truth and living up to climate commitments. the reality of it. Th ose were the four principles that we’ve put on the [1610] record about the LNG industry. Contrary to what the It’s not the opposition who’s been saying this. Th ere government members want to portray to be the reality, have always been strong warnings from experts who said those are the four core principles. that high prices in Asia wouldn’t always last. Experts were Now, I just want to set that aside for a minute as we warning that Japan’s nuclear industry wouldn’t always be debate Bill 6 to talk about what we know and what the shut down and that the Asian buyers would seek to ne- government has said and what this bill actually shows gotiate lower prices through long-term contracts. Th ey and how that matches up with what the government and, have always said that B.C. would have to compete with more particularly, what the Premier has said around their new supply from the U.S., from Australia, from Russia, commitments around the LNG industry. from the Middle East and so on. Experts have always We will all remember the grandiose promises that the predicted that labour costs would rise if B.C. sought to Premier had made during the election campaign. We’ll develop multiple projects simultaneously. all remember the 100,000 jobs that were going to land. Now, all of those warnings the government already Th e “Debt-free B.C.” bus — you’ll never forget the image knew. It was on the government’s radar. It wasn’t as if of that “Debt-free B.C.” bus and how the LNG was going those things just popped up out of nowhere. I think what to wipe out the debt. It was going to create the prosper- happened is that the government chose to ignore those ity fund. What was it? A hundred billion dollars that was warnings. going to be created for the prosperity fund? Very interesting, actually, if you go back to look at all of Th en, of course, we just fi nished debating Bill 2, the this information. Back in September 2012 the Macquarie Greenhouse Gas Industrial Reporting and Control Act, Bank wrote a report in which they doubted that even four where the government touts that the LNG industry was LNG plants would be built in B.C. Th ey were predicting going to be the cleanest in the world. We just fi nished that B.C. would not become an LNG exporter until 2020. debating Bill 2, and it shows very clearly it’s going to be Th at’s actually a prediction from the banks, but that didn’t anything but the cleanest LNG in the world. Th e govern- stop the Premier in making her grandiose promises during ment decided — in their way, right? — to actually not in- the election campaign. Th e report also says that the delays, clude upstream emissions in terms of accounting for that the cost overruns and the emerging markets are all real for environmental purposes. threats that could undermine the economics of the projects. Now, in Bill 6 what have we got? We have the develop- This was actually on the public record back in ment of the LNG industry. Th e Minister of Technology, September of 2012. Th e government had access to this I think, said earlier that we have no faith in “the people.” information, the Premier had access to this information, That’s what he said — according to the Minister of the minister of gas had access to this information, so it’s Technology. Let me be clear. It’s not that we have no faith not news to them. Th en, of course, in February of 2013 in the people. What we don’t have faith in is in the gov- the government came out with the predictions for the ernment. Th at’s what we don’t have faith in. Particularly, prosperity fund, which had mentioned — we’ve all heard we don’t have faith in this Premier and her grandiose this — 100,000 jobs, right? Th e prosperity fund was sup- promises and this government’s false commitments that posed to have — what was it? — $100 billion in the fund they’ve made with respect to the LNG industry. to retire the debt. Why do I say that? You’re wondering: “Well, why is Now, with this bill, I’m not quite sure, actually, when she saying that?” Well, let’s just go back and review for that’s going to become reality. I’m not even sure if the a minute the Premier’s record on the issue. As recent as bill actually talks about the prosperity fund. What’s hap- back in February the government was touting an LNG pened to that grandiose promise? 5540 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

It’s not like government didn’t know it; they knew it. I But that doesn’t stop there either, because there’s an- guess it’s this Premier’s pattern, right? Go and say what- other major loophole. Th at other major loophole is the ever you want about pretty well anything and then not investment allowance, which means that the LNG com- worry about whether or not you could actually deliver panies get to earn a guaranteed profi t that is exempt from on those promises. I think that’s the pattern of behaviour the LNG tax. Th at is a guaranteed profi t before the LNG from this Premier. tax is even applied. Even at 3½ percent, which was re- Then in April of 2013, at an LNG conference in duced from 7 percent, you still see a further reduction of Vancouver, global energy experts doubted the credibility that, according to Bill 6, through these giant loopholes of the Premier’s optimism. Th ey said that Asian buyers that are contained in this document, in this bill, which won’t be paying the windfall prices that have been in place is some 87 pages long. since Japan shut down 48 of its 50 nuclear power stations Th e bill, maybe in this sense, in some ways, should be aft er the Fukushima disaster, that Asian buyers would seek called, perhaps, the surplus profi t tax because, really, at the to decouple the prices of gas from the price of oil and that end of the day, that’s what we’re talking about. Th e compan- B.C. will face stiff competition over prices, with new sup- ies, by the way, according to this bill, would not actually have ply coming from Africa, the U.S. and Australia. to pay the taxes unless they’ve recouped all of their capital Th e government knew this information, had this infor- costs. So we’re a very, very long way from actually seeing the mation, but still they persisted with their empty promises revenue come in to do this so-called tax-free B.C., to reach to British Columbians. Th en, of course, going forward this “Debt-free B.C.” agenda that the Premier had promised. to May 2013, Citigroup warned that we would face in- I should say that this prosperity fund…. I don’t know creased supply competition, aft er the U.S. Department of about you, Mr. Speaker, but I fear that we may never see Energy approved 26 LNG export facility applications in this prosperity fund, most certainly not in the next few Texas on the U.S. Gulf of Mexico. years, I would project. [1615] [1620] Th is information ought to be, I would argue, on the Th ere’s no indication of how that would come about, government’s radar before they make the promises. Is actually, based on the government’s own projections now, it really possible that the Premier would actually go and the reduced projections that, in actual fact, maybe the make all these grandiose promises without actually doing Premier should have been saying right from the start so her homework? Is that really possible for someone who’s that British Columbians would actually know what they running the province of British Columbia — would ac- can expect from government in terms of the LNG in- tually go about doing that work, making these promises dustry, as opposed to these grandiose promises that the without actually doing their homework? Premier had made during the election campaign. I sometimes think that is just not at all possible. But here we are. We have proved yet again that that is exact- Interjection. ly how the Premier conducts herself and how she does her business. J. Kwan: Th e member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head is Th e export information does not stop there. Of course, absolutely right. It is something that we’ve always known in October 2013, Canada West Foundation wrote a report and that this bill, by the way, clearly outlines as well — titled Managing Expectations assessing B.C.’s LNG indus- that there are no revenue projections. Th ere are no rev- try. Th ey said that Asia may soon have more than enough enue projections whatsoever from Bill 6. natural gas of its own and that B.C. will face competition Hence, back to my former prediction — that is to say, from domestic production in China and from the pipe- the Premier’s promise on the prosperity fund and wheth- line imports to China. Th e minister of gas responded to er or not, in reality, it would actually materialize. At this the report by saying: “I don’t mind being accused of be- rate, I would project we won’t see it coming to fruition, ing optimistic.” I don’t think — most certainly not in the next few years. Well, here we are. Th e net result of that is that Bill 6, in- I’m not even sure, at this rate, what would actually be- stead of having the 7 percent tax regime that the govern- come reality at all. Even the government themselves, at ment claimed they were going to have, now has a reduced this point, is not making these projections in terms of tax return at 3½ percent to British Columbians. But that actual revenues, in that sense. doesn’t stop there. Even at 3½ percent, there are major Th e troubling thing about all of these bills, of course, is loopholes in this bill, major loopholes that would actually that Bill 2, the Greenhouse Gas Industrial Reporting and see that 3½ percent diminish. In fact, one of those loop- Control Act; Bill 6, the Liquefi ed Natural Gas Income Tax holes would be the corporate income tax credit which Act; and everything that the government said prior to the could reduce the corporate income tax paid by compan- election…. Now that we’re back in the Legislature, none ies by up to 3 percent, off setting the 3½ percent LNG in- of what they said is actually becoming reality, not by the come tax. Th at reduces it by another 3 percent, with the government’s own admission by way of legislation that corporate income tax credit. they have brought forward. Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5541

Now, the government might say: “Oh, the opposition Th at glass was overfl owing with 16 to 17 LNG plants just is just being naysayers.” Th e opposition is not being nay- on the horizon. Th at glass was overfl owing with 100,000 sayers. What we’re doing is calling the government out jobs — 75,000 jobs here, 39,000 jobs over there — and on what they said they would deliver versus reality on trillions of dollars of economic activity. what is happening. Wow. Like, what a showstopper, $100 billion of eco- Th e government, obviously, does not like that. Th ey nomic activity. I mean, why wouldn’t we all stop and look? don’t appreciate that. So they try to make up attacks on Of course, in that glass was unicorns and pixie dust ga- the opposition or on anybody who might otherwise tout lore. Th is was just before an election — surprise, surprise. their line. If anybody will stand up and just correct the Th at was only a short year and a bit ago. Th ere was government on the record in any way, shape or form, water sloshing out of the glass, dripping onto everything somehow then they are deemed to be against the industry. as the prosperity overflowed — water dripping onto For us, as I said, what we’ve wanted, and what we’ve al- everything and everyone. Money for schools, money for ways said we wanted, is that we wanted to see guaranteed education and services training. Th ere would be more jobs and training for British Columbians fi rst and fore- services for all of us, and we would breathe in that warm most. We wanted to see the resources to benefi t British glow of prosperity from these promises. Columbians. We wanted to see a fair return of those re- Now, a year and a half later, what we hear from the sources back to British Columbians. We wanted to see other side is that we’re negative. I can’t believe it. We are those benefi ts go to the First Nations community, the negative. Everyone who has a brief on this, a watching very fi rst people of this land. And we wanted to make sure brief on this show, has said that the promises were wild, that we protect our air, our land and our water, including exaggerated and that it will not come to fruition. Most living up to the climate commitments. of the water in the glass is gone, evaporated into thin air. Th ese are important goals for all of us not just for to- Don’t call us the naysayers. You’re sitting in an environ- day but for generations to come. I heard the ministers and ment that’s saying this isn’t going to happen to the extent members say, about the LNG industry, that it was going that you promised. Gone are now, even from you, the to bring generational changes to British Columbians. I wild, exaggerated promises contrived to grasp and hold believe that the LNG industry can and will bring gen- onto power for one more term. erational changes. Gone is the prosperity fund. Nobody talks about it Th at’s why it is so critically important that we do it anymore. Th e trillion dollars of predicted economic ac- right. Th at’s why it is so critically important that we ac- tivity is also gone. Gone are the 12 to 17 LNG plants, gone tually get the experts’ opinions and thoughts and put is the fi rst one opening up in 2015, and gone are the three those forward. Th at’s why it is so critically important to fi ve done by 2020. that we tell British Columbians the truth of what’s going on. Th at’s why we don’t make grand projections and cre- Interjection. ate an environment where there is a tremendous amount of distrust in the eyes of British Columbians about this S. Hammell: Gone is — sorry, I almost missed that — industry. eliminating the debt in 15 years, gone is eliminating the [1625] sales tax, and gone are the 100,000 jobs. My gosh. We’re I think we have a responsibility to do that. We have a being negative? Th is is what you promised, and this is responsibility, and we owe it to future generations, to en- what is not being delivered. Th e dreams of unicorns and sure that we do this right. For the opposition, it means pixie dust are fading and drying up with the exagger- those four conditions, four principles, that I have ad- ated promises. vanced and put forward. Make no mistake. Th e members on this side of the House believe in a vibrant LNG industry, but they also S. Hammell: It gives me great pleasure to rise again believe in a vibrant forest industry, agriculture, high-tech, in this House to join the debate on Bill 6, the Liquefi ed mining, tourism, manufacturing, research — a robust, Natural Gas Income Tax Act. I’ve enjoyed the debate in well-rounded economy. this House to date, and I’ve listened carefully to the com- [1630] ments from the members of the executive council, the Th at is what delivers education and training for the members who support the government and members kids in the future of our province, not a single-minded from the offi cial opposition. focus on LNG that puts the province at a disadvantage, is All I can say is “Wow.” Th is is a tale of two points of obsessive and leads to desperation — overpromising, be- view. It’s not a dispute over whether the glass is half-full or ing all in on one hand and putting your eggs in one basket. half-empty but a dispute over a description of a glass that Really, is this the best we can do in B.C.? I sure don’t was once described by the government as overfl owing. think so. Th is glass was overfl owing with a $260 million pros- When we have jobs in this industry and we support perity fund, and that allowed B.C. to pay down its debt. industry in this province, there should be guarantees for 5542 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

jobs for the men and women of this province — well- Th ere’s not hundreds of thousands of jobs coming. Th ere’s paying, family-supporting jobs. Th ere should be a return not a prosperity fund in this legislation. None of that is true, on the resources to the people of B.C. Th e resources be- and none of that is in Bill 6, and that is the proof in the long to the people of B.C., and through the Crown, we pudding that British Columbians are seeing this aft ernoon. should get some of the value of those resources back to So what is in this bill? A very, very modest, heavily, the people. First Nations should be recognized as part- heavily discounted version of what we were told in days ners and receive their recognition and fair share, in terms most recently gone by. of this industry and the other industries of our province. [1635] We must, of all things, protect our land, our water and In support of this bill, the only thing I can truly say is the air which we breathe, as it not only sustains us but that we have an incredibly complex, diversifi ed economy. will sustain our future. Th e gross domestic product and wealth are created in all Be clear. People on this side support an LNG industry, kinds of sectors and in diff erent parts of the province a robust LNG industry, but we also support robust varied — diff erent businesses, diff erent ideas, diff erent patents. industries that will support, in the long term, this econ- Manufacturing, tourism, agriculture, housing and real es- omy and our province. tate — all of those are important, to name but a few sec- tors of our economy that make up this pie that we enjoy R. Fleming: I just want to make a few remarks this in British Columbia. aft ernoon about the bill before us at second reading here We were told that LNG was going to transform British and maybe fi nish off where my colleague just concluded Columbia fundamentally. But now we’re told — if you her remarks. listen between the lines, to the Energy Minister or any- I think all of us here, and indeed throughout British body else in government — a much, much more modest, Columbia, have learned that when the Premier says that limited goal. Th e LNG industry, such that it will become we are on the road to El Dorado, that we are going to in B.C., may just barely replace the exports that we’ve achieve possibly not just hundreds of billions of dollars enjoyed to the United States for the last four or fi ve dec- of new revenue but perhaps even trillions of dollars of ades — only just. And that is if we hurry to it and try and new revenue and a prosperity fund…. beat our competitors. When the government that brought in the HST in 2009 Whoops, there goes Alaska. Russia and China just starts to talk about how the sales tax may disappear al- concluded a massive deal. The nuclear power plants together, when they use an economic modelling around have been switched back up in Japan. Markets are dis- job projections that is ten times higher than the one that appearing faster than you can shake a stick at or than the U.S. bipartisan congressional offi ce uses to establish these people can back-pedal on. multiplier eff ects of their natural gas industry…. When Th at’s the reality and the context for Bill 6. Now, what the government talks as if this is the greatest thing since this debate really is about is whether it’s better to get men and mules came to British Columbia to fi nd gold, something rather than nothing, because we’re not going you know that you cannot believe a single word from to get what was sold to us. Th at was ridiculous. It was this government. never true. It was an absolute fairy tale. What a diff erence between now, in 2014 in the fall, Will there be benefi ts to British Columbia? Yes, there from what we heard just before the election in the spring will be, but they have to be scrutinized properly. Th e of 2013. I just recited the campaign slogans that came off Leader of the Opposition has outlined some pretty sig- the Premier’s lips at that time. Th e reality is that there is nifi cant conditions that ought to be met. Th ere ought nobody — except 40-odd people that sit on that side of to be a test for how we can maximize this limited and the House, but nobody else — in British Columbia…. greatly diminishing opportunity that was overhyped Nobody who is a leader or a CEO in the business com- from day one. munity, nobody who is a tradesperson living in what- We do need to achieve some things for this resource ever region of British Columbia, nobody who is a school that our province is blessed to have. One of those is teacher, a doctor, a health professional, nobody who around the construction phase, if and when we do get has a family in British Columbia…. Nobody in British one or more pipelines in British Columbia to the coast, Columbia except a few dozen politicians who belong to to a liquefaction plant. One or more — although except the Liberal Party of British Columbia believes today what for the government, nobody in the real world, nobody the Premier said back then. in the business community, believes the estimates that You know what the proof of that is? Th e proof isn’t the the government may still stand behind. I’m not even speeches coming from the offi cial opposition on this bill. sure if they do. Th e proof is the bill itself. Whatever we get, we need to make sure that the jobs You look at Bill 6. Any analysis will tell you there’s not from construction, from supplier agreements, are there hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth of revenue com- for British Columbians. Guess who said that’s the way it ing. Th ere’s not a trillion dollars’ worth of revenue coming. should be once upon a time, not when she was in India Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5543

but when she was right here in British Columbia. Th e to go — is that the LNG industry, once Bill 6 becomes Premier said that British Columbians will be fi rst in line law and is no longer a bill, needs to include benefi ts for to get the jobs, right? Yeah, if only it were true. First Nations that are substantial, that meet the test of If only it were true, because there are a number of 21st-century social licence conditions for a sector of our companies out there right now, those that haven’t bolted society — the original inhabitants of this province, who already from British Columbia, that are still working on were treated so badly in the 20th century when it comes investment decisions — those that haven’t deferred them to economic opportunities that they were absolutely shut or delayed them. out of. Th at cannot be allowed to happen again in British One of the things they’re looking at is how impossible Columbia. it will be to make sure that British Columbians are fi rst in Now, I say this is the most promising area because a line to get the jobs. Th ey’re second-guessing whether the number of key First Nations communities right up and government even cares about that. Th e HR analysis being down the pipeline route, right out to the coast, are en- done by big companies — Chevron and others…. Th ey’re gaged with companies, are in discussions with them. looking at our education system here in B.C. Th ey’re Th ey are looking to be an active partner in any propon- looking at northern British Columbia. Th ey’re looking ent that eventually builds in this province. at certain school districts where the graduation rate is Th e fourth condition that has to be met is around pro- barely 50 percent. For aboriginal students, it’s even worse. tecting our air, land and water, and that includes living Are those students who aren’t even completing high up to our climate commitments. It was interesting that school, who can’t transition to trades and apprentice- three weeks ago the United Nations IPCC climate report ship programs, going to be fi rst in line to get the jobs? I was updated and provided a very dire warning yet again highly doubt it. to world leaders, including countries like Canada and These natural gas companies are asking the right jurisdictions within it like British Columbia. questions on this area of responsibility. Th ey’re saying: It was interesting that last week, perhaps on a more “Where is government? Why does British Columbia, aft er hopeful note, the two largest-emitting countries in the 12 years of this government in power, have a 36 percent world, China and the United States, signed a tentative dismal completion rate in trades and apprenticeship climate agreement to lower emissions and to meet cer- programs in B.C. of those who enrol? Why does British tain targets by certain years, to set the stage for an inter- Columbia, with a million more people than Alberta, national comprehensive climate agreement. graduate 50 percent fewer Red Seal trades apprentices But you have to set aside that positive development, every year? Why?” as well as that urgent call to policy-makers from the For a government that says it aspires to help industrial IPCC report, against the actions of this government on development projects like a new LNG industry, why does LNG. We’re not building the greenest LNG industry in that occur? And what does that do for us? the world; we’re building one that may have emissions [1640] three times that of Australia’s industry. Th is is a giant We want to see, as the number one condition, that in greenwashing excuse that has been put upon the people fact there is a plan that British Columbians will get the of British Columbia by the government. lion’s share of jobs and training opportunities from an However, climate commitments and the absence of LNG industry, whatever that industry looks like. a climate agenda seen in this legislation and the other Th e second test is about providing a fair return for our piece of legislation are something that can come later. It’s resource. We know that royalties have declined massively something that can be a responsibility that is met with in British Columbia in recent years. Now we’re looking policy and regulations by a diff erent government that ac- at a bill that creates a very much diminished so-called tually has a climate agenda and is a progressive govern- LNG tax — a diminishing return on the election hype, ment. Th at opportunity will come aft er 2017, aft er this if you like. In this bill companies will achieve the ability bill, presumably, is law. to set all of their capital costs against profi ts for a very, Th at gives me some optimism that a bad framework very long time. for LNG as advanced by this government at this point Th ere’s a technology fund created in Bill 2, which is in time can be made signifi cantly more responsible en- a complementary bill to Bill 6 in some ways, although vironmentally and can be made signifi cantly more fair in much more fl awed. It creates a technology fund to pro- terms of the return it gives to taxpayers, to First Nations vide subsidies to industry — not revenues to hospitals and to northern communities, in particular. and schools, which we were told LNG was all about in the [1645] election, but to create subsidies to industry in the event Th ere will be the ability of government, for example, that they incur any penalties for not being the greenest to no longer exempt massive amounts of emissions at LNG facilities in the world. the wellhead and throughout LNG activity before it Th e third test that has to be met — this is probably the meets the liquefaction plants and for the province to in- area that is most promising, although there’s a long way sist — by regulation, for example, as the United States 5544 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

Environmental Protection Agency now does in the frac- some offi cials from Encana telling me about what was king fi elds in most parts of the United States — and make happening in the gas industry. I think sometimes all of sure that those greenhouse gas emissions are managed us forget how quickly the world has changed. Not that properly, are mitigated and don’t happen and that our long ago we had secure markets in the United States for industry actually does become much, much more sig- our natural gas. We knew we had plentiful natural gas. nifi cantly clean than the free pass it’s been given in many We knew that. We had good markets. Th ey were reliable. areas of the emissions content in this legislation. Th ey needed our gas, and they paid a fair price for it. Th is bill is reality crashing down on this government. What these offi cials from this energy company told Th is is so vastly diff erent from what we heard from the me at the time was that with the developing technolo- Premier in the last election. Every time you hear the gies around fracking — which, of course, the opposition Premier talk about what the LNG industry will represent is opposed to…. And of course, you can’t have an LNG to British Columbia, you’d better shave off at least three industry if you can’t get the gas out of the ground. But zeros, because that’s what Bill 6 does — from the fi gures aside from that, this group of offi cials gave me a heads-up, that she used in the last election campaign. We’re going really. It was almost a warning that if B.C. didn’t begin to to have something signifi cantly diff erent than what was make plans to fi nd diff erent markets for its natural gas, it promised by the government, whatever the LNG industry would be left as the owner of stranded assets — all of that looks like in British Columbia. Th at is for sure. gas in the northeast in the ground and no place to sell it. If we want to have an LNG industry that we’re proud [1650] of and that is worthwhile in terms of an economic contri- Since 2010 government has made a lot of progress in bution to the province, we’re going to have to make sure terms of developing an opportunity whereby we can take that we get the most that we can in terms of employment that gas to the west coast, liquefy it and ship it to Asia. opportunities for First Nations, for young people, for Anyone who is unaware of this opportunity, and also of northern communities. We’re going to have to insist that the challenge around lack of markets in North America there’s a fair return on the natural gas deposits in British for natural gas, doesn’t understand what the risk is to Columbia for generations to come. We’re going to have the province. to insist that First Nations be an active partner here in Th e risk to the province is that…. One of the most the 21st century, that industrial development is depend- important sources of royalties that are paid to the prov- ent upon First Nations’ active participation so that their incial government comes from the extraction and sale economies become more and more self-reliant. of natural gas. I can remember many years…. I’ve been We’re going to have to ensure that British Columbia, around long enough to have seen some ups and downs just as we saw with China and the United States last week, in the economy, and I remember many times seeing huge is not a laggard on climate change but is back to becom- amounts of money, hundreds of millions of dollars, fl ow- ing a leader on environmental responsibility and a will- ing into the provincial treasury as companies acquired ing partner, a leading partner, on reducing greenhouse land on which they could explore and eventually develop gas emissions that can have credibility in the world. Until these gas fi elds. that is met, until that day is met and those conditions are During those years in the mid-2000s the government met, we’re going to have something very signifi cantly dif- was able to invest in tremendous infrastructure, like ferent than what the Premier has told us. highways, bridges, airports, hospitals, K-to-12 schools, It won’t be fairy tales. Reality is that British Columbians post-secondary education facilities. We, frankly, couldn’t need to get on with the job of having an LNG industry have done that unless we’d had those revenues fl owing and change government at their earliest opportunity to in to the government from the natural gas industry in make sure that that industry delivers on the promises that the northeast. British Columbians actually deserve. Th at is what is at risk today if we don’t fi nd a way to get that gas from British Columbia to markets that want Hon. B. Bennett: What’s a fairy tale is that the NDP it. Th ose markets that want it, frankly, are not in the would ever be positive and supportive of any sort of United States of America but in Asia. Th at’s the business economic development or any sort of economic direc- case for LNG. tion. We get what we always seem to get from them. “No, Now, with respect to some of the comments about we’re afraid of it. No, we don’t want it. No, it won’t work promises and about the impact of an LNG industry on because of this or because of that.” Th at is part of their debt and all the things…. I’m not in the House all the brand. Th ey’ve shown that to British Columbians for dec- time, but I’m in here enough to get the fl avour of the day ades, and they’ve been rewarded by the position that they from the opposition. currently occupy in this Legislature, which is opposition. In fact, if this opportunity is not realized, B.C. will be When I was minister one of the last times I had this in a situation where we’re going to have to rely on the portfolio, in 2010, I was up in the northeast doing a tour natural resources that we have in play, like mining and with some of the energy companies there. I remember forestry. We’ll have to rely on our high-tech industry — Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5545 which is a good industry, a great industry. It’s growing. ity construction, the operation of these facilities and the We’ll have to rely on tourism, which is another fantastic pipelines. Th at’s why you see people like Chief industry. But it will be diffi cult to pay down the debt, and who was so supportive. He sees this as a generational it will be diffi cult to fi nd the capital investments that we opportunity for his people to actually benefi t from the need to move the province forward in all those areas that extraction of the resources and the use of the land that I mentioned a minute ago. his people have occupied from time immemorial. Many So our aspiration…. Th is is an aspiration for this side First Nations are seeing that same opportunity. I think of the House. We’re not ashamed of the fact that we set that on this side of the House we have very positive meet- goals on this side of the House. We talk about them, and ings with those First Nations on, basically, a daily basis. we share those goals with the public. And apparently, the One of the aspects of this fi le that seems to get forgotten majority of people in the province believe in our gov- is…. Yes, we will achieve or we will realize considerable re- ernment trying to achieve those goals. Th ose goals are turn through this LNG tax that we’re debating here today. But around developing — or, let’s say, facilitating — as many if even one or two or three or four LNG facilities are built — LNG facilities as we can. or more…. Our aspiration is to have as many built as possible. On the west coast there are currently 18 projects in For every one of those LNG facilities, when you talk to play. I don’t think anybody thinks that there will be 18 somebody from the northeast…. My colleague from Peace LNG facilities on the west coast of British Columbia, and I River North has told me many times how much more gas wouldn’t hazard a guess as to how many would be enough, we will have to extract to satisfy the need of one LNG facil- but as many as can be facilitated, certainly. We believe ity. It’s not just the LNG tax that will bring the royalties to that there are going to be, without a doubt, at least a few. the government of British Columbia; it’s all of the royalties Each one of those investments is going to be larger that come from the actual extraction of that gas upstream. than anything that we have ever seen in this province. Just We’re going to see a minimum of twice as much gas one LNG facility — when you look at the capital cost of extracted. It’s probably going to be more like four or fi ve building the facility, you look at the capital cost of build- times the amount of gas that will be extracted in the ing the pipeline and you look at the upstream investment northeast. Yes, we’re going to have to manage that prop- required to get the gas out of the ground just to supply erly, because there are issues like cumulative impact. But one LNG facility — even one would be a signifi cant, ma- the opportunity is there for people to be employed, for jor development for British Columbia. communities to benefi t, for First Nations to benefi t and I think we’re going to get more than one. I hope that we for the province and the federal government to achieve get more than a few. But however many of these LNG…. royalties from this activity that we then turn around and use for the things that people want us to use it for, like Interjections. schools and hospitals and roads and social services, etc. I’m very optimistic about the LNG story. I believe we Deputy Speaker: Members. will have some LNG facilities. I believe that it’s going to [1655] happen sooner rather than later. I think British Columbia has proven itself to the world as a fi scally responsible Hon. B. Bennett: However many of these LNG facili- jurisdiction that companies can rely upon. Th ey will ties we are able to facilitate in British Columbia, the rev- choose to come and do business here because there are enues that we collect…. so many jurisdictions elsewhere in the world that are not reliable, as we are here in British Columbia. Interjections. We have gas. I’ve heard other members talk about the advantages that we have in terms of the temperature of Deputy Speaker: Members. the gas as it comes out of the ground. It’s a competitive advantage for us. So all in all, I think that this is a gen- Hon. B. Bennett: As I said, hon. Speaker, they have a erational opportunity, as one of the members from this hard time being positive. side of the House said earlier. All of the revenues that will come through this legis- I’m not surprised — I’m saddened, but I’m not sur- lation will be used for the benefi t of British Columbians. prised — that the opposition likes to deride this opportun- Th at’s really what this is all about. It’s all about our gov- ity. It likes to pick holes in it and say why it wouldn’t work ernment trying to facilitate economic development and if it does work, it won’t be done right — all the things so that we can achieve the jobs, fi rst of all, the family- that they typically say. What I would say: this is an op- supporting jobs, to support the communities that will be portunity for all of us to join in, in supporting something adjacent to these developments. And all of the province, that will allow us the opportunity to actually improve the of course, will benefi t from this. province. So I’m hopeful that they will reconsider their I think, importantly, First Nations are going to have opposition to this bill and support it. tremendous opportunity to benefi t from the LNG facil- [1700] 5546 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

J. Horgan: I rise today to speak to Bill 6, the Liquefi ed any fi nal investment decision they might make. Natural Gas Income Tax Act. I don’t see how the 18 — I believe it’s 18 — compan- I’m proud to stand here following many thoughtful ies we’re up to now, 18 proposals…. It’s down to one or colleagues on both sides of the House who have off ered two or three, maybe four, if you listen to the Minister of up their point of view on what has become, certainly, a Energy, who I suppose would be an expert in the House divisive issue, if we listen to the minister just completed on energy issues — or one would hope, in any event. He’s and earlier presentations by other ministers of the Crown. taken it from the 18 promised by the Premier down to I’m proud to say that I lead a caucus that understands one or two, three, maybe four. Again, I support that. I the challenge we have with respect to growing the econ- am encouraged by that, that there’s some realism on the omy and understands that we have to take our compara- other side of the House rather than just Pollyanna and tive advantages where we fi nd them. I support liquefi ed awaiting the arrival of El Dorado, because it’s just not so. natural gas in British Columbia, provided that we support I’ve been travelling around the northwest over the past workers in B.C. fi rst, that we ensure that First Nations are couple of weeks, and I spoke with hereditary leaders of completely dialled in… the Wet’suwet’en First Nation. I heard the Minister of Aboriginal Relations make his intervention today, and Interjection. he talked about uniform support. I’m sorry to rain on your parade, Minister, but based on my discussions with J. Horgan: Well, we’ll get to the details, Minister. We’ll the Wet’suwet’en, that uniform support doesn’t exist at get to the details. this time. I’m hopeful that we can all redouble our ef- …that there’s a fair return to the province for the re- forts to make sure that we live up to the requirements source and, most importantly, that we protect our air, laid down by the Supreme Court and that we do achieve water and land. some sense of reconciliation and partnership with First Now, the challenge, of course, for government is that Nations on this fi le. they don’t understand the role and function in the British We’re up and running by 2020 full bore — one tril- parliamentary system of a vigorous opposition. Instead of lion dollars in economic activity. I had to pause when taking thoughtful suggestions in a hope to improve legis- the member for Victoria–Swan Lake reminded me of lation, as we did — with my colleague from Vancouver– that number. I used to think that trillion was just a little West End — with Bill 2 and as we will do, I’m certain, at bit past gajillion. You used to use terms like that when committee stage — my colleague from Surrey-Whalley you were in grade 5. It wasn’t a realistic number. It was — to try and improve this legislation as well, especially just something you pulled out of thin air, which reminds when we look back…. me very much of the Liberal campaign from 2013 and We’ve been hearing from all sides of the House about probably why we have, on Hansard, now recorded the the promises that were made over the past number of $1 trillion fi gure in economic activity just right around years by the Premier, the member for — I think it’s the corner. Kelowna-Westside. Is that where the Premier is from? I Of course, part and parcel of that would be our $100 think that’s the right one. billion prosperity fund. Now, the prosperity fund, trum- She said a number of things. Certainly, back in 2011 peted before the election…. By requirement you kind of what stands in my mind was a whistle-stop tour she made have to talk about it in the fi rst budget aft er the election to Kitimat, where she promised that there would be an and maybe even make reference to it in your fi rst offi cial operational LNG facility by 2015. throne speech as a re-elected government, so we did hear about it in February. But we had, as luck would have it, [D. Horne in the chair.] two throne speeches this year — double your chances to talk about prosperity funds. Well, I know that the Minister of Energy doesn’t want [1705] us to be negative. I don’t want to put a negative spin on It’s unfortunate that we didn’t get to hear more about a promise that was made to achieve something a month the prosperity fund at that time, but we did get to hear and a half from now that is just not going to happen. But, and compare over the past number of days the promises again, I think it’s the responsibility of the opposition on and commitments made by the Minister of Finance in behalf of all British Columbians to highlight defi ciencies budget documents, which, again, guide the questions in rhetoric, certainly, but also to highlight defi ciencies in around certainty and uncertainty that some members delivery by the government. have talked about with respect to this sector. You need In 2013 the member for Kelowna-Westside said that to have some certainty. the LNG industry in this province would be up and run- Th e sector looked at the government documents that ning full bore by 2020. Th e BG Group of companies, were tabled by the minister. He said 7 percent. Th at will which had a very favourable location in Prince Rupert at be familiar to many people here. Th at’s what we pay in Ridley Island, announced recently that they’re pausing sales tax and will continue to pay in sales tax, because the Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5547

trillion dollars in economic activity apparently isn’t hap- say this. I’m identifying for the people who elected us on pening, and we’re not going to be doing away with the this side of the House that all the good news that con- sales tax as a result of our prosperity fund. Let’s remem- tinues to come forward at every one of these government- ber the 7 percent number, because it dropped when this sponsored conferences and government-sponsored press legislation was tabled — by half. conferences where we put the LNG logos up on the wall Now, the Minister of Natural Gas has said some pe- as big as we can make them…. Even though the Premier culiar things over the past little while. I recall when BG has created an industry announcing things around LNG, Group said publicly that they were going to pause. He the reality is that the market is changing, and it has been said: “Oh, I predicted that would happen.” I recall when changing for some time. China and Russia signed hundreds of billions of dollars’ I, again, want to reiterate that the challenge for the gov- worth of agreements with respect to providing gas from ernment is manyfold. Th ey have to address the issues of one to the other. “Oh, that’s just a small play. Nothing to the day. Th ey have to raise revenues. Gas revenues, I’ll be concerned about.” A $400 billion deal. We’ve heard remind the Minister of Energy…. Maybe he’s not getting that it’s generational for us — but not, apparently, for the the briefi ngs that he should be on these matters. Th e rev- Russians and the Chinese. But there you go. enues we’re getting from natural gas have been dropping Another thing that I wanted to highlight, though, is for some time, not just because of the price but because that when the minister was confronted with the drop of a whole bunch of other factors — credits and so on. from seven to 3½, he said, “We don’t negotiate taxes” — [1710] funny that. “We consulted behind closed doors” is what I want to draw everyone’s attention to a writer, Peter he said. I don’t know. I’m just a simple country doctor Tertzakian, who is a noted resource economist. He wrote from Juan de Fuca, but from where I come from, when a very, I think, thoughtful and also humorous — which is you go in behind a closed door and you start at seven and important to me — piece in the Globe and Mail on 19th you come out at 3½, there was probably a negotiation go- of November of this year. He laid out a scenario where- ing on there. I don’t know who the minister is responsible by those who are here — whether it be Exxon, Petronas, to when he does this, but there you go. Shell, BG, Woodfi bre, all of those companies that are in He also said, when he was reminded of some of the British Columbia looking to make signifi cant fi nal invest- failings of the targets and the benchmarks that were ment decisions — are going to have to go back to their aspirationally set, it turns out now, rather than real- boards and get approval. ity — goals, as the Minister of Energy has suggested…. Mr. Tertzakian, an expert in this area, understands the Aspirational. We’re hopeful that sometime in the near challenges of certainty and uncertainty. So he created this future, I understand, we’ll be eliminating the debt — ac- scenario where someone would bring forward, “What’s cording to the minister’s revised fi gures, in 2043. For the situation in British Columbia?” to their board. those backbenchers counting at home, that’s about seven He concludes as follows. He says, “Look at this. Th ere’s elections from now. I’m hopeful that some of you will be no resolution on First Nations. Incomplete pipeline per- here. I know the member for West Vancouver–Capilano mits, incomplete environmental assessments, unknown most assuredly will be, and I will challenge him. We’re federal fi scal terms, no clarity on municipal taxes, no behind time in Kitimat, apparently. transfer pricing agreement, poor visibility on labour sup- Now, the minister talked about a chance meeting with ply, etc., etc.” Th ose are not market conditions. Th ose are some offi cials from Encana on a tour of the northeast. I conditions that the governments of British Columbia, was the Energy critic for many years on this side of the Canada and the cities and communities around B.C. have House, and I toured the northeast many times. I’ve spoke to address. Th at’s uncertainty. with all of the proponents. I’ve talked to them candidly That the opposition stands and says the market is about the markets, and they’ve talked candidly to me changing and says, “You were just making stuff up dur- about the changing face of energy in North America — ing the election campaign,” does not infl uence these fi nal the minister touched upon that — and, in fact, around investment decisions. I would love it to be so. I know in the world. the attack piece that the member for Nechako Lakes sent Gas is trading higher in Asia than it is in North out with the good Liberal scribes in the basement here at America, and that’s the single chance we have. But the gas the Legislature, that there was some hope that I could be in Asia is tied to the price of oil. For those who haven’t blamed for single-handedly derailing LNG discussions in looked at their business pages today, oil is trading below British Columbia. If I only had such power. $80 a barrel and is expected to be below $80 a barrel into I can’t get appropriate ministers to take accountability the foreseeable future. What does that do? Th at brings here, in my day job, but somehow, in the dark of night, down the price of gas in Asia. What does that do? It according to the member for Nechako Lakes, I’m go- makes us less competitive over time. ing around, scurrying about, trying to dissuade board Now, that may be an inconvenient truth for the cheer- of directors of Shell, Chevron, Exxon and a whole host leaders on the other side. I’m not being negative when I of others. I, personally and my colleagues on this side 5548 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

of the House are using our market power to discourage citizenship, but as temporary foreign workers — why not these fi nal investment decisions? Nothing could be fur- instead, while you’re in the room, giving away 3½ per- ther from the truth. cent of your tax room, say: “I want hard and fast com- I support this initiative, and I will be standing in sup- mitments for training and jobs for British Columbians”? port of this bill. It falls way short of what was promised. Th at makes a whole lot more sense than just…. Way short. It falls way short of what I believe we could have accomplished, were we not consulting rather than Interjections. negotiating our tax frameworks with the various com- panies that want to invest here. But that is that. J. Horgan: We can have expressed guarantees from I know from my tours of the northeast and the north- various proponents for jobs here in British Columbia, for west that there’s a desire for this activity to take place. training opportunities here in British Columbia. Project Th ere’s, by all means, debate. Th ere are challenges ahead labour agreements are very common practice in British for the government and all British Columbians — whether Columbia. Certainly, with the right government selling they be First Nation or non–First Nation, whether they be these innovative proposals that…. I think it was W.A.C. opposed to natural gas development or where they want Bennett, if I’m not mistaken, that started it, so the mem- to have a better understanding of what the consequences ber for Westside-Kelowna might fi nd something in the of hydraulic fracturing are. Th ese are issues, I would argue, archive down at Socred HQ next time she’s driving by that government should spend some time on. that would remind her that if you invest in people and if Rather than going around saying, “Th e NDP hates you put people fi rst, you might get a better return than if LNG,” why don’t you go around explaining to the public you close the door with some of the biggest companies in why this is profoundly important that we proceed? Not the known universe and say: “What could we do for you?” just with pitches here in the Legislature and trumped-up Instead, why don’t you open up the doors in this place conferences where you invite yourself to come and make and say: “What can we do for the people of B.C.?” Let’s presentations to yourself. Instead, go out and talk to the protect our resource and ensure that we get an appropri- people of British Columbia. Explain to them in genuine, ate return to the Crown for the resource. Let’s make sure real terms why this is important, why we need jobs in we have guarantees for British Columbians getting jobs, the northwest. fi rst and foremost, that training is in place. I was in Kitimat last week. Th e modernization…. I met Let’s live up to the requirements of the Supreme Court with Richard Prokopanko, who has been working for Rio decision with respect to Tsilhqot’in and ensure that it’s Tinto Alcan for decades. He reminded me, in the brief- not just the Haisla and the Nisga’a that are enthusias- ing that my colleague from Skeena and I were given, that tic about this but the Wet’suwet’en and a whole host of I have been working on that fi le for 20 years. He said he other bands, from the Alberta border to tidewater. Let’s has documents that I had signed, going back to the 1990s, make sure that we’re actually working for partnerships, about trying to get that project off the ground. It took 20 not just pandering. years. I’m led to believe it’s one of the largest capital in- Most importantly, let’s ensure that we’re protecting our vestments in this province to date, and it took 20 years. air, water and land for this and future generations. You do With an existing, established company and in a town that that by realizing we have to live up to the climate com- wanted them to be there, with all of the infrastructure in mitments that we made in this Legislature in 2008. We place already, it took 20 years. have to realize somewhere along the line that when you When we stand on this side of the House and say your say, “Th e greenest in the world, from wellhead to tide- pipedream is coming unravelled, it’s not out of anger. It’s water,” you’re actually going to achieve that. But that’s out of sadness and disappointment that you set the bar not what we got with Bill 2. I know we’re debating Bill 6, so ridiculously high that you can’t possibly meet it. How hon. Speaker, and I know I have some latitude just be- does that help the economy? How does that help reduce cause I’m smiling at you. uncertainty? How does that help give confi dence to the But the fundamental challenge for the people of British people of B.C. that you know what the heck you’re doing? Columbia who look at this industry is: “What are you go- It doesn’t. Our job on this side of the House is to continue ing to do to protect us?” We see it at Burnaby Mountain to remind you on that side of the House that you’ve got right now, citizens saying: “What are you going to do to a lot of work to do. protect the lands, for us and for those who come aft er [1715] us?” Th ese are fundamental questions that are skirted by Instead of going, as the Premier did, to Ottawa and in this government’s desire to say that the NDP is against lobby for more temporary foreign workers so we can everything. Well, you won’t be able to say that with Bill realize our generational opportunity…. Instead of trav- 6, because we’re going to stand side by side with you and elling to India and talking about training workers there vote in favour of it. As defi cient as it may be, it does pro- to come and work in British Columbia — not as landed vide us with an opportunity to reduce some of the un- immigrants, not as those coming here with a pathway to certainty that has been rampant on this fi le. Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5549

I want to also, fi nally, say to those members on the op- Hon. M. de Jong: As I generally try to do at the con- posite side who just like to make politics out of this stuff : clusion of a second reading debate, I would like to thank if we’re genuinely, all of us, interested in growing the all members for their contribution, for their submis- economy and making sure that British Columbians bene- sions and their ideas, particularly in this case when the fi t from this resource, this opportunity that has benefi ted issue and the legislation before us is important, weighty, us for many decades and hopefully will continue to do so complex, technical. It provokes, one hopes, thought- in the future, let’s put the politics aside just for fi ve min- ful consideration in terms of not just the operation of utes, if the member for Westside-Kelowna could possibly the legislation but its implications for the future of the do that. Instead of saying, “It’s all about us,” why don’t province. we say: “What about making it all about the people of I was thinking — as I listened to much of the debate British Columbia?” Why don’t we try that for a change? and, for that which I didn’t hear in person, read through Why don’t we put the people at the front of the agenda some of the commentary — and I was asking myself: rather than the politics? “What would be the proper way for a legislature to con- Let’s have a real discussion. Petronas has serious issues sider the legislation that is before us in Bill 6? What’s the with Lelu Island, with respect to salmon and with their measure?” Prince Rupert proposal. Th ere are serious concerns in I do understand, for example, the role of an offi cial op- Kitimat about airshed issues. Th ese can be overcome, but position, having spent seven or eight years in that oft en hard work is involved. And honesty is also involved — thankless role. What is the role? What is the measuring honesty with the public that, yes, we hear your concerns, stick, the yardstick, that you would apply in a thoughtful and we’re going to take steps to alleviate them. We need way to assessing whether or not this legislation is worthy to ensure that we have vibrant communities in the north- of support? east and the northwest. I want to see liquefi ed natural I guess, what I came back to was what I, perhaps clum- sily, tried to indicate to the House at the time of its intro- gas produced in Prince Rupert. I want to see a facility in duction and maybe in other forums since then, which is Kitimat and any other community that wants it here in the objective that the government is seeking to achieve British Columbia. with respect to this particular statutory instrument. But let’s be honest about the consequences. It’s not all It’s the achievement of a balance between, on the one upside. Everybody in British Columbia knows, when they hand, ensuring that we secure a fair return for the owners get up in the morning, it’s not all sunshine and roses — of the resource — that is, British Columbians — for the well, everyone but perhaps the member for Westside- ability we have to extract, to alter its state and then sell Kelowna. But the rest of us, who live in the real world, into off shore markets and derive a return for that, but understand that there are trade-off s and consequences to derive a return in part for the people of B.C. as the and compromises that have to be made to achieve our owners of the resource; and on the other hand, ensuring goals long term. that we present as a competitive jurisdiction that will at- On this side of the House we’ll support this bill, pro- tract the — I was going to say, signifi cant — by any meas- vided the four conditions that we’ve laid out are met. I’m ure, massive investment that will be necessary to ensure hopeful that the government will listen to some of the that takes place on the scale that the government and issues that are raised during committee stage and try to many others hope will take place in British Columbia. make this bill a little bit better so that we can all achieve I will say, parenthetically, that when people ask me the aspirational goals that the Minister of Finance alluded about the prospects for this industry and ask me about to when he spoke at fi rst reading. the chances for it to succeed and how worthwhile this en- [1720] deavour is…. Will it work? Will we see the results that we I’ll end my remarks by thanking those people here for are looking for, the return that we are looking for, the op- their attention. It’s been rare that I’ve stood in this place portunity, the jobs, the community development? I point without someone yelling at me. I want to thank those out that the greatest indicator — barometer, if you will members on the other side for giving me the opportun- — for this industry is the fact that the investment we’re ity to stand, genuinely, and put forward how I feel about talking about derives from the private sector. this very important issue. It is, I believe, important to the [1725] people in this room on this side of the House — and I Unlike other signifi cant investments, some of which think it’s important on that side as well — that you hear are before the government for consideration as we speak, genuinely how we feel about this, unvarnished, with- this does not represent the allocation of public tax dol- out the aid of the partisan fi lters that we all carry here lars — at least with respect to the main body of indus- far too oft en. trial infrastructure. Th ese are agencies that would come to Canada, would Deputy Speaker: Seeing no further speakers, the min- come to British Columbia and make this signifi cant in- ister closes the debate. vestment. They will do so, bluntly, if we present as a 5550 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

jurisdiction that is in their minds competitive. A statu- of the offi cial opposition would be with respect to the bill. tory instrument is one piece, but a very important piece, Th e Leader of the Opposition stood up today and said, of endeavouring to secure that balance and achieve that I think with a measure of pride and certainty, that the of- balance. fi cial opposition intends to support the legislation. I am I was listening carefully through the second reading grateful for that. Clearly, the government presents a piece debate — particularly from the side of the House whose of legislation and commends it to the House seeking sup- duty it is to critique, to assess and, ultimately, to render port. To the extent that support is off ered, one is inclined their version of judgment on what the government has not to delve too further into the rationale behind that. done — for any sense of whether the opposition viewed But I have to say this. As I listened to much of the de- this as a reasonable attempt at securing that balance. bate, and much of the contribution to the debate from Whilst I listened carefully to what the Leader of the members of the opposition, it occurs to me that it is more Opposition said and appreciate that he sought to present than just off ered, more than just grudgingly…. Th e offi - in a very candid way his views on the industry, I must say cial critic for this bill couldn’t bring himself to say that for you, to him and others, I didn’t hear a lot of specifi c there would be support for this bill. analysis or criticism about the bill itself. I heard a lot of Others have said some very diff erent things. Th e mem- commentary about election campaigns, and the mem- ber for North Island described it…. bers may feel that was justifi ed or necessary. But I didn’t hear a lot about — not the details — the essential com- Interjections. ponents of a piece of taxation legislation. I heard very little, for example, virtually nothing, about Hon. M. de Jong: Well, the member for North Island the natural gas tax credit — by any measure an important wants to hear what I have to say. aspect, an important component of this bill. It would, for Th e member for North Island described the bill as a those who avail themselves of it, take a corporate income selloutof B.C. If she is to be believed, and if that is, in- tax rate that is set today at 11 percent and reduce it to as deed, her description and characterization of this legis- much as 8 percent. lation, one assumes that she will follow that with a vote accordingly. Unless…. Interjection.

Hon. M. de Jong: Th e member for Oak Bay–Gordon Interjections. Head reminds me that he touched on that specifi cally. Perhaps a few others did but not many. Deputy Speaker: Th e Minister of Finance has the fl oor. In assessing the legislation and off ering their com- ments, I heard a number of members…. In fact, I heard Interjections. the Leader of the Opposition just a few moments ago of- fer this criticism, and I think it was meant to be a criti- Deputy Speaker: Members, the Minister of Finance cism about the retreat of the government from the 7 has the fl oor. percent rate that was pledged and promised. I think the Leader of the Opposition and the member Hon. M. de Jong: We’ll see. We’ll see to what extent for Burnaby–Deer Lake, who made the same observation, that is reflective of the true position. Maybe there is know that they are incorrect, know that from the time this something else at play. Maybe there is a group sitting construct was fi rst presented to the House in February of across who have begun to hear from British Columbians this year, the indication was a range where the LNG income about their desire, British Columbians’ desire, to see eco- tax, the second tier, would be up to 7 percent. Th ere was nomic development occur in British Columbia. never any attempt to suggest that it might not be less than that, that there would be ongoing discussions, that there Interjections. would be an ongoing assessment of the market conditions. In asking to be taken seriously…. And it is important Hon. M. de Jong: I thought that at some point that an offi cial opposition and all members of the oppos- this group would decide to stand and say to British ition be taken seriously. I can say this from experience, Columbians: “In assessing taxation legislation, who not all of it a happy experience. Th ere is a requirement comes to that topic with the greatest degree of credibil- to deal with the facts and refl ect the facts accurately. In ity?” that instance, many members of the opposition I think have purposely chosen not to refl ect the facts accurately. An Hon. Member: HST. [1730] I listened carefully as well, and particularly in the early Hon. M. de Jong: Yes, we know the hon. member’s stages of the debate, to learn what the ultimate position position on that taxation instrument, as we do… Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5551

Interjections. ition benches.

Deputy Speaker: Members. Interjections.

Hon. M. de Jong: …their position on another little Hon. M. de Jong: Th ere is this abiding sensitivity that taxation gem that the NDP introduced a few years ago reveals itself at times like this over and over and over called the corporate capital tax. Let’s talk…. again, because British Columbians understand there was but one group which was committed with a singular Interjections. determination to take the steps necessary to attract a vi- brant liquefi ed natural gas sector in British Columbia. All Hon. M. de Jong: Here I was endeavouring to provide of the protestations, all of the lurching from position to a thoughtful dissertation on the opposition’s presentation. position, all of the fl ip-fl opping that we’ve heard and will [1735] continue to hear in the days ahead will not alter that fact. You mention something that goes to the heart of at- [1740] tracting investment into British Columbia, an instrument One lives in eternal hope that through the discourse that that member and that member and that member and that will take place in this chamber in the days ahead, that member all supported, that drove investment out of through listening to British Columbians, members of the British Columbia. Th at’s the group that says today: “No, NDP, even those who are hesitant about even extracting British Columbians. When it comes to striking a balance gas in British Columbia, will come to understand the between attracting investment and deriving a fair return potential that exists and that ultimately we can work for British Columbians, you should believe the NDP.” together to see that parts of British Columbia that have Well, British Columbians didn’t believe them then. Th ey suff ered from depopulation over a matter of decades will don’t believe them now. Th ey don’t believe them now. rise again and enjoy the benefi ts, receive the infrastruc- Th ere’s another issue that is…. ture that will be part of a vibrant, growing liquefi ed nat- ural gas sector. Families in British Columbia will enjoy Interjections. the benefi ts of jobs that will be part of the development of a liquefi ed natural gas sector in British Columbia. Deputy Speaker: Members. It’s an exciting time. Th ere is much work to be done. Th ere is a great deal of work to be done. None of this is a Hon. M. de Jong: It’s interesting, isn’t it? When you given. None of this will happen by itself. All of it will require begin to delve into the philosophical approach of the coordination between levels of government, including First NDP to taxation policy, suddenly the room either gets Nations, who have shown and demonstrated an unpreced- very quiet or very loud. ented level of involvement and engagement on this fi le. Th at We have a piece of legislation before us that the op- is to their credit and the credit of the province as a whole. position has taken a number of days now to critique, to We can do this. Th is is one piece. Th is is one piece of eviscerate, to challenge. But apparently they’re going to the regulatory and taxation puzzle that proponents and vote for it. I’m pleased about that. I’m sad that during the British Columbians want to see, need to see, now have course of the debate they chose to ignore any of the fea- before them and in the days ahead will be debated in de- tures, any of the important components. tail in this chamber. I’m looking forward to that and, ac- As we move into the committee stage of debate, I’m cordingly, move second reading. sure we’ll begin to hear, in more detail — perhaps we’ll [1745] hear in more detail — from the opposition their view on how this legislative instrument will work to help create Second reading of Bill 6 approved on the following the opportunities that we want in British Columbia. division: I get the fact, also, that as we move this forward, there is a measure of discomfort on the opposition benches, be- YEAS — 76 cause having an LNG industry of the sort that we envis- Sturdy Bing Hogg age does actually require us to extract natural gas from Yamamoto McRae Stone the ground. Look, we understand there are and continue Fassbender Wat Th omson to be divisions on the opposition benches about the man- Virk Rustad Wilkinson ner in which that occurs. Pimm Sultan Hamilton We understand that, for example, the member for Reimer Ashton Morris Vancouver-Fairview has very specifi c views on wheth- er or not we should be extracting natural gas in British Hunt Sullivan Cadieux Columbia and how we should do that. I predict we’re Lake de Jong Coleman going to hear some more noise now from the oppos- Anton Bond Bennett 5552 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

Letnick Yap Th ornthwaite the Police Act and to fi nally ask the minister a question. Dalton Plecas Kyllo To set the context, across this huge province we fi nd Tegart Michelle Stilwell Hammell highly diff erentiated policing structures, community by Simpson Robinson Farnworth community, responding to diff erent local environments, serving diff erent crime environments and subject to dif- Horgan James Dix fering fi scal capacities and diff ering inclinations to spend Ralston Corrigan Fleming hard-earned tax dollars on public safety — which is by Kwan Conroy Austin way of saying that in the government’s implementation Chandra Herbert Huntington Th roness of these amendments to the Police Act, the fi scal side will Larson Foster Macdonald be ultra-important and ultrasensitive. Karagianis Eby Mungall On the Lower Mainland, typically public safety con- Bains Elmore Shin sumes about half of the municipal budget. Within that Heyman Darcy Donaldson half, policing can consume another half — in other Krog Trevena D. Routley words, about one-quarter of all municipal spending. It Simons Fraser Bernier seems clear to me that if the province imposes new com- Martin Gibson Moira Stilwell pulsory obligations to staff and pay for more ambitious Chouhan Rice Holman cross-jurisdictional policing units — perhaps along the B. Routley six lines I conjured up, or others — then revenue models will have to be adjusted to accommodate them. NAYS — 1 By coincidence, the Province newspaper yesterday re- ported that Vancouver police department chief Jim Chu, Weaver responding to budget pressures, was forced to redeploy offi cers while doing everything possible to avoid layoff s. Deputy Speaker: Before we proceed, the member for VPD management is recommending cuts to major crimes, Oak Bay–Gordon Head…. If he could stand and with- marine, canine and crime scene investigation units, while draw his last remark during the vote. adding to technological crime and Internet units. He is hoping that Vancouver city council will authorize new A. Weaver: So withdrawn. funding for additional street safety offi cers. It’s interesting that some of the units being cut are in Hon. M. de Jong: I move the bill be referred to a the very areas where the province could possibly seek ex- Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the pansion. In my own community of West Vancouver the next sitting aft er today. question facing our civic administration is whether tax rates — already, by some measures, the highest in Metro Bill 6, Liquefi ed Natural Gas Income Tax Act, read a — could go up further if the municipality is ordered to second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole support more integrated task forces. Th ey certainly could, House for consideration at the next sitting of the House unless we reduce police services elsewhere, just as Chief aft er today. Constable Chu is doing in Vancouver. [1755] Hon. M. de Jong: Continued committee stage on Bill 4. West Vancouver has a fi nancial model for localized [1750] policing that our own police board supports and approves. When necessary, West Vancouver purchases special- Committee of the Whole House ized services from either Vancouver or the RCMP. West Vancouver also supports those bodies when requested to BILL 4 — MISCELLANEOUS STATUTES do so. It will not be easy to convince everyone that some AMENDMENT ACT (No. 2), 2014 other model works better for all, since we may be forced to (continued) reduce police programs and services elsewhere to fund the specialized integrated police services. I certainly would Th e House in Committee of the Whole on Bill 4; D. not be the one to propose the alternative of higher taxes. Horne in the chair. West Vancouver mayor Michael Smith has been quot- ed as saying: “We attach a high value to policing because Th e committee met at 5:52 p.m. of the value of our properties and our citizens’ posses- sions. Th at’s what our citizens want.” Michael was re- On section 8 (continued). sponding to the mistaken impression abroad that West Vancouver spends far above average on policing. Our R. Sultan: Th ank you, hon. Chair, for this opportunity own Ministry of Justice 2012 police services B.C. report, to conclude my remarks on the proposed amendments to which is really the bible on comparative statistics — and Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5553

somewhat at variance with a more recent Fraser Institute tained throughout British Columbia. It falls to govern- report, which probably had some mistakes — shows West ment to make sure that the tools are in place to enable Vancouver spending $337 per capita on policing in 2012, all communities to benefi t, when needed, from special- compared to a signifi cantly higher $366 for Vancouver ized policing skills. and signifi cantly less, $319, for Delta. Not all communities are able to develop those or have In Surrey, even adding in the 10 percent federal gov- adequate resources to put all those specialized skills ernment subsidy for local RCMP policing, they spent a together themselves, but they all do need to be able to whole lot less — only $260 per capita. Maybe this varia- benefi t from specialized policing. Th ey need to benefi t tion is refl ected in the local crime statistics. Maybe the from technology and equipment that are increasingly ne- reason crime is so high in some areas and so low in others cessary to combat modern criminal activities. has something to do with the number of police offi cers I’ll emphasize what I said the other day, which is that visibly on the street. In 2012 West Vancouver had the criminal activities now are diff erent than they were some equivalent of 168 police offi cers for every 100,000 people, years ago, when crime was more localized. Now crime compared with 137 in Surrey. readily spreads across a community, across multiple com- One mayor of a municipality with its own police force munities, across the province and across countries. went so far as to tell me, in the context of the amend- I should emphasize that a number of communities ment to the Police Act, that there was no way this may- have actually called upon government to mandate par- or’s own higher-police-spending, low-crime community ticipation in specialized policing teams such as IHIT. For was going to raise its taxes 2 percent simply to send the example, in May of 2013 Coquitlam city council passed money to help out lower-police-spending, higher-crime a regional policing resolution, saying: communities. “Th at council endorse and convey to the province that a regional Th us faced with such feelings, it will be a challenge to approach to certain policing services is supported where there govern from Victoria when payment for services is lo- are economies of scale such as the current integrated teams and that to ensure eff ective and effi cient delivery of the regional com- cal. As I said, community-by-community existing ser- ponents, participation of all municipalities be mandated by the vice delivery, appetite to pay and capacity to pay vary a province, based on a governance-oversight model acceptable to great deal. municipalities.” Please don’t interpret my cautions and reservations Th at’s what this bill is aiming to do. Th ese proposed as undermining my personal conclusion that common changes are aiming for exactly that — to strengthen gov- sense demands further integration of specialized po- ernment’s ability to respond to such calls for action and lice services. I have reluctantly, I admit, come to accept to meet our responsibilities with respect to policing in that aspect of this bill, and in many ways it is the core of this province. the bill. But I would look forward to hearing from the Now, the member for West Vancouver–Capilano did Attorney how the government proposes to manage the ask about the funding formula. Th at is set out in the next challenging governance and taxation issues which are section, and we can come back to that. Also, as to how inherent in the proposed amendments to the Police Act. the pieces are put together, how the structure of a spe- [1800] cialized unit is put together — again, that is in the next section. I’ll be glad to come back to that. I will not lose Hon. S. Anton: Th ank you to the member for West sight of the question when we come back to that section. Vancouver–Capilano. Just to observe that this is en- abling legislation. Th e proposed amendments…. It is M. Farnworth: I thank the member for West proposed that government be provided the authority to Vancouver–Capilano for his intervention. I think he require communities to participate in specialized poli- raised a number of thoughtful, interesting points that cing services. we’re going to be canvassing under section 9. But I also As to the governance, how the pieces are put together, think he raised some interesting points that I have yet to that is set out in the next section. When we get to that hear the answer to, here in section 8. next section, I won’t lose sight of the question and will [1805] come back to the governance and how the governance of I think it’s important, given the response from the a specialized service would be put together. minister with the letter she just read out from the muni- But the goal is to strengthen government’s authority for cipality of Coquitlam for mandatory participation. She’s when a specialized policing service is deemed important using that, in part, as justifi cation for the legislation, and and needed but to prevent one community from drop- I understand that too. I understand she used the term ping out and others from dropping in — so that there’s a “enabling.” I think it’s important for the minister to be structure to the whole of the specialized policing. clear with the House that when you have legislation that Government does have an obligation, a responsibility is enabling, the reason that you are enabling yourself or — in fact, it falls to me, as minister — to ensure adequate bringing it forward to be able to do this is because you and eff ective policing services are delivered and main- intend to do something. If you weren’t intending to do 5554 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

something, you wouldn’t enable yourself with the pow- what the minister has said — that this legislation will ers that you thought you were missing. apply to Delta, that the government will have the power What I’d like the minister to do, under this section, is to force Delta, which is adamantly opposed to partici- to explain: what are the changes in section 8? What is the pating in the regional teams, that they are in fact…. Th e rationale in the sense of what’s diff erent in this section minister says: “No, they will be — or they can be, if we from the existing section, and why are those changes tak- so decide — into these integrated teams.” So I just want ing place? Why the need to have enabling if you’re not to get that on the record. intending to do anything? Or have you made a decision My question to the minister is this. I take it from read- that you are intending to do something? ing her statements about Coquitlam and their resolution that she supports that position by Coquitlam, that she Hon. S. Anton: I would just like fi rst of all to correct thinks they should be regionalized and, if Delta is under the record. Th e hon. member the other day put words any illusion that they are exempt from this legislation or into my mouth, assertions that I had made statements that they will not be covered by this legislation or if the that this might not apply to certain municipalities. Th at minister decides to proceed with integration, that Delta is incorrect. Th ose assertions were never made by myself, would be a part of that move to requiring mandatory in- and it is indeed the case that this legislation could apply tegration, that Delta will not have an exemption. Is that to any municipality, should that be necessary. correct? Th e immediate question is: why the changes in section 4 as proposed by section 8 of the misc bill? Two signifi - Hon. S. Anton: As I said a moment ago, this legisla- cant changes. First of all, we are proposing to remove the tion can apply to any municipality, depending on the words “necessary or desirable” in the previous section 4. specialized policing service, and we’ll come back to that Th at is because there was no test for that phrase in the in a moment. How it applies and when it would apply — section, and it was unclear or uncertain what the mean- again, that’s in the next section, section 9. It depends on ing of those two words was. and it’s reliant on what makes sense for policing. What Secondly, we added the word “enhance” — so “may is an appropriate specialized service? What is the appro- make regulations to enhance, provide or reorganize priate area for a specialized service? policing.” Th e reason to include the word “enhance” as Of course, as I have said many times, this is always an addition to this section is because it parallels the pro- going to be done with consultation and collaboration to posed amendments for specialized policing where spe- make sure that we have the most eff ective form of policing cialized policing, throughout the next piece that we’ll be and, if we need specialized services in an area, that we coming to, is there to enhance local police services. have the most eff ective form of specialized services that [1810] are needed. Th is would always be done by the collabora- tive approach, by working together with municipalities. M. Farnworth: I’m really pleased to hear the minis- ter’s comments, because that’s an issue I think we need M. Farnworth: I’m glad to see that the minister is say- to explore. Far be it for me to ever try and put words in a ing a collaborative approach, but I will address that later minister’s mouth. I would never do such a thing. on in sections 10 and 11, where those sections give the hammer to the government to say: “Th is will take place.” Interjection. My specifi c question is…. Minister, there will be no exemption for Delta under this legislation. Is that correct? M. Farnworth: Minister, please, have some humour. [1815] If not me, there are certain reports in the paper that clearly seem to indicate that this legislation would not Hon. S. Anton: I believe I’ve answered the question, apply to Delta. Th ere are many people — my colleague but I’ll add one more thing. When we get to section 9, from Delta South, for example — who are, on the min- 4.01(2), the minister may recommend that cabinet make ister’s response to that question, going: “Oh, the mayor regulations if “the minister considers that the regulations of Delta, Lois Jackson, came away feeling very confi dent are necessary (i) to address the frequency or complexity that it was not going to apply to her.” of criminal activities or investigations, or (ii) to promote Th e point I want to make, Minister, is that there is con- effi cient or equitable delivery of policing and law enforce- fusion out there, confusion in comments that have been ment services.” made. And I’m reading the same papers that others are. Th e whole of the section goes on to talk about what Here’s a good opportunity. Let’s get this on the record in kind of specialized service might be needed in an area, a way that everybody fully understands and is completely why it might be needed, who would participate and how clear about the intent of the legislation. the funding model would be put together. Th at’s all in the I’m more than happy if the minister says that this legis- next section. And yes, it does apply to every municipality lation will apply to Delta and to repeat word for word in British Columbia. Monday, November 24, 2014 British Columbia Debates 5555

But again, a specialized service may apply to a service M. Farnworth: Th e answer I get from that is that if area. Th e specialized service isn’t necessarily covering the Lois Jackson as mayor of Delta thinks that somehow whole province. It’s covering the service area which it is these changes aren’t going to apply to her, she is sadly deemed to be required for. mistaken. Would that be correct?

M. Farnworth: Th e minister didn’t answer the ques- Hon. S. Anton: I’ve answered the question about four tion, and I’ll try again. It’s really simple. She’s brought times. I am not going to speculate or respond to what we specialized service areas into the mix. Let’s deal with it might possibly think somebody else thinks. on this basis. Regional policing in the Lower Mainland. Th e minis- M. Farnworth: I’m surprised that you wouldn’t be ter read out a letter from Coquitlam council saying that concerned about what somebody else thinks when that there should be mandatory participation. Th e minister somebody else is the mayor of the municipality of Delta, has mentioned IHIT and said that IHIT is one of those of which one of your members sits on your side of the specialized teams. It’s the one most commonly known by House and another sits as an independent. One would the public. It’s the one most commonly accessed by mu- think, Minister, that you would be interested in their nicipalities, in terms of when you think of regional spe- opinion of their local municipality’s position. cialized teams. Th at’s the one, okay? Th e mayor has made it quite clear that she has real con- Now, the minister is trying to say that we’ve got regu- cerns with the legislation. If that’s the minister’s position, lation coming in another section that will allow us to de- then hey, who am I to say: “Whatever”? I’m quite sure termine the specialized area that the service would apply the minister will hear from the mayor of Delta, if not her to. Well, the question’s really simple. Delta currently does own colleague — and certainly, I have no doubt, in fur- not participate, okay? Th ere is some confusion out there. ther sections from the member for Delta South. Th e minister has said that I put words in her mouth. I Let me move on then to another municipality that has made clear — and I would like to make sure, just don’t want to do that. If I have done that, then I want to to make sure on the record — that they too, potentially, be corrected. I want to know; I know the member from could be covered in a way that they’re not anticipating. Delta wants to know; and I am sure the member for Th at is the city of Vancouver. Th e Attorney’s own riding Delta North, who sat on Delta council and has worked is in Vancouver, and I know the Attorney has had input with Lois Jackson, would like to know. And Lois Jackson from Police Chief Jim Chu, and the ministry certainly would like to know, because she’s been in the paper, in has. Chief Chu has also made clear his concerns about the Province. She’s been happy, going: “It’s not going to Vancouver’s specialized teams being formally integrated apply to Delta.” in a way far more than they are now. He has asked that Th e question is really simple, direct, to the point. Th ere that not happen. is no exemption for Delta under this legislation or any Again, the impression that is certainly out there is that intention by the minister to excuse Delta from having to the minister is not intending to use these powers to apply participate in the regional specialized teams such as IHIT to the city of Vancouver. My question to the minister: is — IHIT being the main one, for example. Delta does not she, or are they, contemplating applying those powers have an exemption. Is that correct? to the city of Vancouver? Or does the city of Vancouver [1820] have to go back and apply the comments around Delta to their position on this? Hon. S. Anton: I’ll answer the question one more If the minister could answer that, I’d appreciate that. time. Th ere are no exemptions. I will add one more piece, which is that if we have an existing specialized service — Hon. S. Anton: Vancouver and Delta both participate for instance, IHIT…. If it were to fall into this section — in integrated units and work extremely cooperatively on in other words, become part of a program under this new policing generally. proposed section 9 — it would fall into all of the consul- I think that the member opposite might remember and tation under section 9, all of the pieces under section 9, consider where this came from. Th is came from a very whereby the whole specialized service was put together, serious place. Th is came from the recommendations of the municipalities were consulted with. the Missing Women Commission of Inquiry. Generally, you hope to get to agreement on that point. [1825] But yes, if that was a specialized service that was need- The commissioner, throughout his hearings and ed in a certain neighbourhood, a certain area…. If IHIT throughout his report, shows extraordinary concern for were to be brought into this, it would have to be brought the problems that arose between police departments at within the purview of this section. Again, as I said, there that time, for the fact that they didn’t share information would be consultation, working together with municipal- in the way that they might share information, for the ities, but no municipalities would be exempt. fact that they didn’t work collaboratively or together in 5556 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 24, 2014

the way that they might. So much so, that the murders recommendation in that report was about regionaliza- of women from the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver tion of police. Th at’s what it was. It was the regionaliza- went…. Any murder is too many, and the number of tion of police, particularly in the Lower Mainland, and murders was absolutely horrifying to the community. the minister knows that. It was not about specifi cally say- Th at’s why we had the Missing Women Commission of ing: “Let’s make some improvements around specialized Inquiry. Th at is why there was such a signifi cant thought teams and integration.” In fact, there have been a number in the report as to how specialized policing should be of experts who gave expert testimony during the Oppal improved in the province of British Columbia. Th at is Inquiry who have said that what’s before us is not that the purpose of these amendments. Th at’s why we have recommendation. this piece here. One fi nal comment. If the minister is so committed It is the case that generally our police departments are to that report, and saying that report, then I really look quite…. I’ll fi nish up. forward that before the end of the session the minister will have an announcement about a bus, which was a key Th e Chair: Noting the hour as well. recommendation in that report and has still not been implemented. Hon. S. Anton: I can see you’re anxious. Noting the But noting the hour — and we will have more ques- hour, I’ll fi nish up. tions tomorrow — I move that the committee rise, report It is certainly the case that since the late ’90s, when progress and ask leave to sit again. those terrible events were happening in Vancouver, po- lice have changed. But it is also very clear that there was Motion approved. a very solid, strong recommendation that permeated that report, which was for government, if needed, to Th e committee rose at 6:27 p.m. have the ability to form specialized policing and form specialized units in the province of British Columbia. Th e House resumed; Madame Speaker in the chair. Th is is a response to that. It is something that is gen- erally very highly accepted by police departments in Th e Committee of the Whole, having reported progress, British Columbia. was granted leave to sit again. As I said, it’s enabling legislation. Th e goal of it is to work cooperatively, but it does indeed cover all police Hon. T. Stone moved adjournment of the House. departments, all municipalities in the province of British Columbia. Motion approved.

M. Farnworth: Noting the hour, I was going to move Madame Speaker: Th is House, at its rising, stands ad- adjournment of the debate, but I do have to respond to journed until 10 a.m. tomorrow morning. that last statement. Quite frankly, the minister knows full well that the Th e House adjourned at 6:28 p.m. Hansard Reporting Services

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