Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 30 AUGUST 1881

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Return. [30 AUGUST.] Extension of Oentral Railway. 399

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY. Tuesday, 30 August, 1881. Insanity Bill.-Petition.-Extension of Central Rail­ way.- South .Brisbane Railway.- Railway from Toowoomba to Highfields.-Brisbane Valley Rail­ way.-"\V"arwick to Killarney Railways.-Fire Brig­ ades Bill.-TllOmas Railway BilL-Adjournment. The SPEAKER took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock. INSANITY BILL. The SPEAKER announced the receipt of a message from the Legislative Council, forward­ ing, for the concurrence of the Assembly, a Bill to amend and consolidate the laws relating to the Insane. On the motion of the PREMIER (Mr. Mcii­ wraith), the Bill was read a first time, and its second reading made an Order of the Day for to-morrow. PETITION. Mr. KINGSFORD presented a petition from John Smart Crate, having reference to excursion trains. Petition read and received. EXTENSION OF CENTRAL RAILWAY. The MINISTER FOR WORKS (Mr. Mac­ rossan) said, in rising to move the adoption of 400 Extension of [ASSEMBLY.] Central Railway.

the plans of the extension of the Central Rail­ able amount had taken place also at Aramac. way as laid on the table of the House on the 9th The population of Aramac must he about 500, August, he would remind hon. members that the and that of Blackall about 700 ; and the land plans for the construction of the Central line had thrown open at either of those places for already been approved up to the 2GO-mile peg. selection was considerable, and settlement had These were plans which went from there to the commenced in a bowi .fide manner. The line n~w 3G7-mile peg. This extension was over com­ proposed was one that might have been dis­ paratively level country; there were a few cussed before; but he doubted very much whether ranges here and there, but nothing of any two years ago, or even one year ago, they were importance. The plans startecl about seven in a position to decide, or anyone else was in a miles south of Beaufort Creek and about six position to decide, as to where the line should miles west of the Belyando JUver, and then go to Ue of rnost service in promoting the general proceeded over pretty level country across Native interests of the district in opening up settle­ Companion Creek ; then· across a small range ment and becoming a paying railway. He should and over the valley of Alpha Creek until it not-in fact, he could not-move any amendment surmounted the Main Dividing Range, at a upon the proposed line, because in all proba­ height above the sea-level of 1,497 feet ; but bility it would defeat the object of the line alto­ the Dividing Hange at this point was little more gether and jeopardise very important interests. than perceptible, and was very small as com­ But what he should ask was that the Gov­ ]~ared ':'ith the range on this side, being very ermnent should make some in'luiries as to httle raised above the level of the surrounding whether the propo&Ltjusticehecouldnotsay, stated, Railway from 26') miles to 307 lnilP::::, as laid UlJOn ihc on the occasion referred to, that a rail way should table of the House, 9th August, 1881. he made from Bowen Haughton's Gap to tap 2. That the said Plans, sections, and nook of Refer­ ,.;,z ence be forwarded to the Legisln.tive Council for the:r the line. He believed that was the programme approval, by message in the usual form. then announced, and it was a matter of very serious import to the whole House, and espe­ The Hox. S. W. GRIFFITH : Is this exten­ cially to the X orthern and Central members, sion clue west ? as to the amount of traffic to be drained by the The MIXISTER :B'OR WOHKS: In a straight construction of the Hughenden line. They had lino due west. got as far as H ughenden, and were getting as far Mr. DE SATGE said he thought, when the as Barcaldine ; and he said, in view of the hon. Minister for \Vorks found time to expound settlement of the country, fair notice should be the Government policy at Cooktown and e.t given to settlers, and those who proposed to \Varwick, it must be a matter of regret that he settle in the l\1itchell district, where the ter­ was not able to find his way to the terminus that minus was to he. They knew very well that, he had just mentioned at Barcaldine; because in after the announcement of the Minister for any step now taken to form what must he an W arks that evening, the Barcaldine terminus enormous settlement, comparatively to the re­ would be immediately recognised as a matter sources of the community, at a point such as the of the very greatest importance. Those who one ado]Jted, there must be naturally a consider­ had already set np in Aramac or Blackall able detraction from the settlement that had would turn' their thoughts immediately to the already taken place in other portions of the settl:ement of the prospecti"e terminus at Bar­ colony. They had heard from the Minister caldine, which would certainly be an immense for \Vorks that the station at Barcaldine place, comparatively speaking; and they would would be some sixty miles from Blacke.ll and have settlement completely revolutionised. It about the same distance from Aramac. 'The was not in his power to deviate the line, or to House must be awa,re, or probably might not he use any influence in doing so, he presumed, to aware, that a considerable amount of settlement either 'Blackall or Aramac; hut Barcaldine had taken place at Blackall, and a very consider- would now be a rising place, to the extinction- Extension of [30 Aum:sT.] Central Railtvay. 401

~ts they had only :1 limited population--of Blaclmll the policy uf their predecessors. He regretted, :1nd Ammac ; aml he con"idered that this however, th,tt they were not carrying out that was a matter which shonlQueensland, :1mmmt of settlement likely to take place, it was and that to Port Darwin bv the South Australian of importance that they should protect tlwse wlll1 · Government. He would point out to the House had. already borne the burden of settlement, and that if they sanctioned this scheme it would be de01de whether thev should foster settlement the rl.eath-blow to ~Ioreton Bay, because all the between these two in1portant townships. pi·oduce of the district would not come here, bnt The Hox. G. THORX sahl that h~ did not go to Port Darwin, or some other po~t in South intend to oppose the motion for the further Australia. He hoped the representatives of the extension of the Central line, and was glatl metropoli" would neYer consent to see the interests to see that the Government were carrying out of the southern part of the colony destroyed. If 1881-2 0 402 Extension of [ASSEMBLY.] Central Rail1vay. this railway were to be constructed, not only the Parliament for a greater length than that for produce but the people would go by that route, which money had been voted, in the Southern as it would be a very short one to England, and line they had only got the sanction for an exten­ would save time and money, as well as insurance, sion of sixty miles out of 130 ; and, as far as because they would not have to encounter the hon. members knew, they had taken no steps intricate navigation of an eastern coast. He whatever to carry out that extension. He hoped, therefore, that the Government would not, trusted that hon. members in the House would either in this or any other session, come down see that fair play would be given to all parts with such a proposal which would destroy the of the colony. Hon. members on this side of interests of the southern part of the colony. He the House were perfectly willing to give fair had no hesitation in saying that if the line was play to the Northern parts of the colony ; and extended to Point Parker it would destroy the all they asked was that hon. members on the port of Rockhampton also, because all the other side of the House would sec that the produce would go there instead of to Rock­ Southern portion of the colony was not neg­ hampton. He fancied he could hear the South lected. He hoped the Southerii members would Australian people chuckling over such a scheme. insist upon this. So far as they knew, no He hoped they would not commit such folly, and surveys had been made for the extension of that the gentlemen who were, he hoped, not being the Southern line, and he thought the House made fools of by the Government-some of them was entitled to know something about it, belonging to the old country, and some to because it affected the whole national policy southern colonies--- of the country, and they were entitled, he The SPEAKER : I must tell the hon. mem­ thought, to know the steps the Govern­ ber that his remarks are irrelevant to the queHtion ment intended to take in order to carry out before the House. their promises. The hon. the Minister for \Vorks had not told them, in moving that Mr. THORN said he was speaking about motion, how it was proposed to raise the railway extension generally. The House had additional money that would be required to not received sufficient information on the pro­ cover the distance beyond that for which posal submitted to it, and he hoped the Govern­ money had already been voted. It might possi­ ment would supply'more to hon. members. He bly be that a surplu;;..would supply it, but they believed that railways were to be made much had not been told so. In his opinion, it would more cheaply now than in the old davs of the be preferable when the Government proposed colony ; and he hoped the Government would the construction of lines of raihnty to give the not make fools of the gentlemen to whom he House some information as to where the money had referred, but would tell them to depart was to be obtained. They had given the House and we would make our own railways. He no information whatever in this case; hon. could not dissent from this proposal, but he members only knew that they had voted hoped before the session closed to see a proposal £390,000. They were entitled to know where for the branch line from Bowen to the Charters the money for this additional forty miles of line Towers line, which had been promised by the was to come from. It was information usually Attorney-General on behalf of the Government, given, and it ought to be given; and another and that the House would assent to the plans piece of information which ought to be given in when they were submitted. respect to this matter was as to the probable point Mr. GRIFFITH said he thought the House of intersection of the line which the Government was entitled to some more information from were supposed to be contemplating-the trans­ the Government in respect to these motions. In continental line, so-called-with this line. \Vas the year 1879, the Government proposed to the thi8 point, for an extension to which they were House to vote a sum of money for the extensimi now asked to sanction the proposal under con­ of the three lines from Brisbane, Rockhampton, sideration, to the westward or the eastward of and Townsville. At that time the Government that point? He thought they were entitled to gave the House and the country to understand some information, as it WltS not a mere matter that it was intended to push forward all these of a local line, but was part of a great national three railway extensions concurrently fromRoma, scheme. They ~~·ere entitled to know what the Retreat, and Charters Towers. He was sure it whole of that national scheme was before they would never have been tolerated by the House at were asked to sanction what was an important that time that only one or two should be carried part of it. out. He thought the House and the country The PREMIER said with re,pect to the ought to know the manner in which at the information asked for by the hon. member, there present time the Government were carrying out was one point on which the hon. the Minister their promises, and the way in which they were for "\Vorks could not give the information, and acting with respect to them. On last \Vedne8- which he (:VIr. Mcilwraith) did not see how the day the House authorised the extension of the hon. member could expect, and that was the pro­ Northern line for 158 miles. Money had been bable point of juncture with the transcontinental voted for its extension for 130 miles, and they line. The Government had not the surveys of the were now asked to authorise the extension transcontinental line yet, and were not in a position of the Central line for a distance which, to state where the point of juncture would be. added to the extension authorised in 1879, That would come before the House at the proper made 170 miles beyond Retreat Creek. So time, but it had nothing to do with this proposal. that, in respect to the l'\orthern and Central Then as to the directions in which the lines were lines the House was asked to authorise plans for taken. They had all been surveyed exactly in a,n increase of thirty and forty miles respec­ accordance with the expressed desire of Parlia­ tively, beyond the places for the extension to ment. As to the other point raised by the hon. which money had been voted. On the Southern gentleman, it was exactly the same as the one lin~ ~xtension and "\Vestern an of si;cty miles raised on \Vedne~day, and completely answered. had been authorised m 1879, and since then The Government had no intention of pushing nothing further had been done. He had given any line to the exclusion of others in different notice that he intended to ask the Minister for parts of the country. Not the slightest disposi­ "\Vorks to-morrow, when he intended to call for tion had even been shown by the ::\Iinistry to tenders for this extension. And what about the favour the X orth at the expense of the South. surveys beyond Mitchell. They found that while in respect to the Central and N ortherr: Mr. McLEAN said he could not understand line the Government obtained the sanction of the reply given by the Premier to his hon. friend Extension of [30 AuGUST.] Central Railway. 403 as to the probable junction with the transcon­ however, that the hon. member should object tinentalline. The Government had plans, and that the Central line went further to -the west­ on them the probable route was, no doubt, ward than the Southern and \Vestern, although .marked. Surely they could form some idea as it was shorter in length. That was simply an to where the junction would take place. If the objection to the formation of Australia. The Government proposed it, it was for the Govern­ fact that the coast trended to the north-west­ ment to form that idea, and to give it to the and that, therefore, a line from Rockhampton Hou,;e. He did not think his hon. fl'iend had reached the central country sooner than a line been answered by the Premier at all. He was from a more southern part-was an advantage to confident that the Premier knew perfectly Rockhampton, resulting, not from the favour of well within a few miles ;vhere that probable Government, but from the formation of the junction would take place, but it might suit the country, which no Government could alter. Government at the present time to give an \Vith respect to population, he admitted that evasive answer. \Vith respect to the reply the population in the south of the colony giYen by the Minister for Works on \Vednesday was more clense ; but it was not neces­ evening, he would ask what information had sary to go to the tables of population to esti­ the hon. gentleman given with respect to the mate whether a particular railway would pay, Southern line? " That it was to go to ::\lit­ while hon. members had the traffic returns to chell" was all the information that they got. guide them. If the hon. member would refer to Hon. members wanted to know the intention of those returns he would find that there was no the GoYernment with reference to the extension comparison between the two lines as regarded of 130 miles beyond Homa, for which money had traffic returns; and he (Mr. Archer) believed been Yoted ; hut all the information they could that if the Central Hailway had not been ex­ elicit was that they might keep their minds easy, tended at all the receipts would have been nearly as it was the intention of the Government to make the same, as it was not the extra mileage which the line to l\litchell, some sixty miles. Hon. had increased them. The returns for the Central members now wanted to know what was going line during the first half of this year showed an to be done about the other seventy miles. Had increase of £15,000 over the same period of last the Minister for \V orks given, at an early hour year ; whilst those of the Southern and \V estern in the evening the other day, the information -which had heen extended much further­ which he condescended to give later on, he would were actually less than they were at this time have sa;-~d the time of the House and the warm last year. Although the population to the west­ feeling which the discussion ar6m;ed, and ;vould ward of Rockhampton was not dense, the produc­ also have expedited public business. The general tion of the country was so enormous that he impression was that tho Government ;vere believed the Central line would not only be able favouring the Korth as against the South ; and, to pay for itself next year, but that by-and-bye though they denied having done so, anyone the profits would he sufficient to furnish a sub­ who looked at a map of Queensland would see sidy for the building of other railways in the that the Centrn.lline wa" being· carried 1GO mile:; colony. That was not an exaggeration, but was further west than the Southern n.ml \YestPrn. based on the returns which were ftccessible to The fact that the population in the South was so all hon. members. That being the Ci1Se, and much more dm!Se than in other parts of the the hon. member having admitted that railways colony ought to be taken into consideration, he­ should be constructed where there was traffic t•ause where the people were the traffic would he. to make them pay, the hon. member should [t "'a8 not a C[Uestion of \Vest, Korth, or South, certainly support the Central line in pre­ !Jut a question of where there was traffic to make ference to any other in the colony. He the railway a paying speculation ; and as the was, however, very far from saying that the great bulk of the population of the colony was in Southern and \V estern line should not have the_ South, it. would he rtuite safe to carry the fair play, and he should be sorry to think that in mmn trunk hues out concurrently to ertual dis­ a country like this, where the Government tanc01;. :Even then, the railways would he carried out all public works, the people who paid pushed forward equally fast in the K orth, a large proportion of the taxes should not have a although there was a great proportion of the corresponding advantage. The southern portion population in the southern portion of the colony. of the colony, having a more dense population, He had no objection to the extension of the must of necessity contribute a larger amount of K orthern railways, because he held that all revenue from land sales and other sources, and, places should be accommodated with railway therefore, it ought to have preference in all communication as far as circumstances would matters of this kind ; and he insisted that it had allow ; but it was not a fair argument to received that preference. Not only had the say that the railways were carried ont ertual main trunk line been greatly extended to the distances, when it was apparent that the point to westward, but innumerable branch lines had which the House was asked to sanction the exten­ been, or were proposed to he, constructed in the sion of the Central Hail way was 160 to 200 miles South. As the Minister for \Vorks had pointed further west than the Southern and \V estern had out, the branch lines in the South made up reached. He should like also to ask the Minister together a length as great as, or greater than, all for \Vorks whether it was true-as he was the Central Railway put together. EYen the credibly informed-that the whole of the sleepers extension from Toowoomba to Stanthorpe was for use on the Charters Towers and Hughenden not a direct line. extension were to be shir,ped from the port of Brisbane. Hon. members had been told that ::VIr. O'SULLIVAN : That's a national line. the railway was to be constructed at a low figure; Mr. ARCHER said they were all national, but, if that was a sample of the way the work was being paid for by the people ; but the extension to be done, it was probable that the Government to which he referred was not a main line as and the Government }<;ngineers would he con­ regarded extension due west. There was also the sidembly mistaken. He hoped the Minister for Sandgate line and many other branches which \Vorks would state whether the information he had been, or were to be, approved of. He did had received was correct. not say that there was any injustice in connec­ Mr. ARCHER said he could, at all events, , tion with the making of those lines, but he main­ thoroughly agree with the hon. member when tained that the people of Southern Queensland he said that railways should be constructed where had very little to complain of, especially since the there was sufficient traffic to guarantee a return Minister for \V orks had said that the Western on the money expended. It was very remarkable, extension from Roma would go on shortly. That 404 Extension qf [ASSEMBLY.] Oeutral Railwag. line, it appeared, had been delayed simply on the interest on the borrowed money was to be the r1nestiun of route and in eonRef1uence of the 1net. It. however, Bnitn(l the ( }nyprnnu'.nt to action taken by Keveral gentlemen in the Nouth, push on the Central line. and let the Homa linu apparently with the object of stopping the Centr"'l remain where it was. He hopetl the l\linister line. He presumed that was their intention, for \Vorks would give the House an assurance and he was very glad it did not succeed. The.re that the money voted for the 130-mile ext~nsion was nothing unfair in extending the Central Hail­ would be devoted to that purpose; bnt 1f the way as far as the money already voted for the money . were to be appropriated to any other purpose would suffice ; and he did not desire that purpt)se he would rather that it should be any money voted for the extension of the Houthern expended in the construction of branch linos. line should be applied to any purpose other than that for which it was votecl. ;\Ir. O'SULLIV AX said he rose to say a few words about what appeared to he a great mni,;­ Mr. MILES said the hon. member for Blackall sion in the speeches of those who had spoken. appe::cred to labour under a misapprehension. He was much surprised that no hon. member had No hon. member of the Opposition had offered taken notice of some of the remarks which fell the slightest opposition to the extenilion of the from the hon. member for l\ritchell. In carry­ Central line, but the Opposition complained ing on line$ it Vlm; a Yery ;,m·ions Inatter to see that the Minister for \Vorks asked the House to that places were ;not left on one side in which approve of plans and. sections for a greater dis­ great interests had already been created, as hacl tance than that for wluch money had been voted, already been done in the case of one of the lines. and they were under the apprehension that a l\Ien who had gone out to towns in the interior, portion of the money voted for the Southern and and had expended time, energy, and money in \V estern line was to be appropriated to other those placE~N, might be nearly ruined in conse­ lines. They now wanted an assurance from the flUence of the direction which a line might take. Minister for Works that such would not be thA This was such a serious matter that he could case. He presumed the hon. member for Blackall ask the Minister for \Vorks to consider well. the did not desire that money voted for the Southern statement made by the hon. member for the and \Vestorn Railway should be appropriated to )litchell, that the proposed terminus of this line the Central or Xorthern Hailway. would be in the middle of a huge plain where ::\Ir. AHCHER: I do not wish it. there was 110 water. He Wtts not himself Mr. MILES said the Opposition were not act1uainted with the place, but he was flUite certain, but they believed that such was the satisfied that the hon. member for 1\Iitchellmust intention of the Government. He had no know it, and that the hon. mem!Jer would not objection whatever to the. exten,don of the make such a statement unless it were true. If Central line, anrl he believed that the route, if that \Yere a fact, he hoped the Minister would not exactly the right track, was pretty near it. be careful not to take steps which, if once taken, The hon. member for Xorth Brisbane was not, could not be· easily undone. A terminus which he thought, so green as he professed to be. 'l'he would probably become the centre of a great hon. gentleman knew where the.money for the township should be on the bank of a creek where extension of the Central line was to come from. there was plenty of water. \Vith regard to the The House had voted money for an extension of remarks of the hon. member f14r Blackall, that 130 miles beyond Homa, and the Minister fur the Stanthorpe Hailway was a branch line, he \V orks had pledged himself that tenders shquld would point out that that railway had never be called for sixty mileR. He could tell the House been ach-ocated with the idea that it would pay. that the Minister for 'Vorks intended to appro­ It was made simply to meet the 1\ew South priate the balance of the money voted to the \Vales line, and was, therefore, a national line extension of the other two lines. which could not be put to the credit of The COLOl\IAL SECilETARY (Sir Arthur the Southern and "r estern line. It was part Palmer): No. of a line which would, no doubt, be carried all Mr. MILES said he was very glad to hear the over the colony in course of time; and in calcu­ Colonial Secretary say it was not so, but hon. lating the proportion of expenditure it should members had before had experience of the same not be coupled with the Southern and \V estern sort of thing. · They knew how the Railway line. Every part of the colony, as well as the Reserves Fund had been appropriated. It would South, had an intere~t in that line. His object be very easy for the Government, with their in rising was to call the attention of the Minister enormous majority, to come down and ask the for \Vorks to the remarks made by the hon. House to transfer the surplus money voted for member for l\Iitchell; and he hoped the hon. the Homa line to the account of the other two gentleman would be able to give a satisfactory lines. The House were asked to sanction the reason why the route chosen should pass by two extension of the Southern line beyond the dis­ great centres of population like Aramac anfl tance for ·which provision had been made, and Blackall, and some other townships in the same they had a right to an assurance that the money direction, which were rapidly growing. already voted would be sufficient. He did not Mr. MESTON said he was under the impres­ think it would be, notwithstanding the econo­ sion for some time that the money appropriated mical way of building railways which had been for the extension bevoml Rmna was to be em­ adopted-an economy which he fea.red might ployed in the construction of branch lines in the prove to be very costly in the future. Hon. mem­ Southern district, but he was not so now. He bers were told that tenders would be called for the was not prepared to admit that the X orth was GO-mile extension at some future time, but they had receidng undue favour in the matter of railways, a right to know when the whole extension would bearing in mind the extension of the Central be carried out, and he hoped the Home would line and the number of branch lin~.s which were refuse to sanction the extension under discussion to be considered. Besides the line to Sandgate, until they had an assurance that the f:louthcrn there was the line to South Brisbane, the line line would be extended at least to Mitchell. from Toowoomba to Highfields, the Brisbane There could be no difficulty, because tenders had V alley line, and the line from \Varwick to Kil­ already been called for on a previous occasion. larney. It was quite true that the 8ulk of the Hon. members on the Opposition side had been population was in the southern parts, but he did blamed for having prevented the tenders from not think that was any argument whatever being accepted, but he denied that they had done against extending the X orthern lines. True more than ask that a little time should be given statesmanship lay in progressing the lines in ::n so that Parliament might meet and consider how parts of the colony simultaneously, and not m E.rtcnsion of Gent1·al Railway. [30 AtrGITST.] Soutlb Bl'isbane Railtcay. 405 extending the line~ in one part of the colony at Barcaldine ; at present it was 16i5 miles. He did the expense of other parts. not think the hon. gentleman had said anything ::Yir. SCOTT said he had not been able to else which it was necessary for him to answer. understand what the hon. member for Mitchell ~fr. O'SULLIVAN was understood to ask wanted. It was quite evident that no railway about the want of water at the proposed ter­ could go due we'lt and touch both Aramac and minus. Blackall. The hon. member said he did not The MIXISTER FOR WORKS said that see why both of these towns had been left out, that was a mere fttllacy. They were not com­ and his arguments were most inconsistent. He pelled to chose a place where there was a water had pointed out that the extension of the line supply ; they could get water anywhere. Mr. to Clermont had almost ruined that place, ::md 13allard had been providing dams along the vet he wanted the line extended to Aramac or Uentralline, and it certainly was not necessary l3lackall. If the line to Clermont had tended to to make a deviation because there was no water. ruin the interests of that place, it must be Regarding the remarks of members on the assumed that the same thing would happen if it Opposition benches, as to why the survey had were carried to Blackall or Aramac ; and the hon. been made,, and why the survey of the Southern member's contention was decidedly inconsistent. and \V estern line had not been proportionately The only possible way to meet the difficulty which long, he would remind hon. members that he the hon. member smmestecl was to divide the made an explanation last vV ednesd:ty evening as line, sending one ,branch line to Aramac and to why the survey was not taken to Mitchell, and another to Blackall, but that he 'vas sure was why the line had not yet been made to Mitchell; not the intention of the Government, nor would but he might point out something th"'t had pro­ it be countenanced by this Hous_,e. bably been overlooked. This line required only The ::\HXISTEH J<'OR \VORKS wished to one staff to survey it. He had been surveying say a few words with regard to what had fallen half-a-dozen branch lines in the South, and each from some hon. members. He wished to ask of them took a separate staff. In the settled the hon. member for lYiitchell how he knew that districts, and especially in the coast districts, it he C:\11\ J\facrossan) had propounded the Gov­ was much more difficult to sun-ey a line than it ernment policy at Cooktown. He ne,·er did so. was across the western 1>bins. That was the The hon. member seemed to be in the habit reason why no more surveys had been made. of getting hold of facts which neve.r existed ::1t As to the extension of forty miles beyond that all ; sirnply existed in his own irnagination. voted by Parliament, he explained, in moving How did the hon. member know th::1t he (J\Ir. the plans and specifications for the line from l\facrossau) exprnmded the Government policy Charters Towers to Hughenden, that he expected ::1t \Y arwick, which he did not do? It woulrl be to make that additional length out of savings. much better if the hon. member, before ::Lddres­ He did not say that to-day, because he thought sing the House, would ascertain, either from him hon. members would understand that that was or some reliable person, whether such things the case. Through being able to obtain rails at were true, ancl thus become acquainted with a much cheaper rate than the contract entered into for the 15,000 tons in the beginning of last the facts. It w~ts not his (~Ir. l\lacrossan's) year, it would make a difference of £400 per place thi~ evening, in vropmdng the adoption of plans ::1nd specifications for this extension, to mile. In addition, there were the savings in the go into the Government policy. It had nothing length of line to Hetreat. There was still a to do with the Grwermnent policy. Generally balance of nearly £30,000 remaining on that, speaking, the adoption of plans and specifictt­ which could he applied to the making of this tions was tt mere formal matter. The, policy extension. Hon. members might rest assured of mttking the line had been debated and that no portion of the tlouthern lines would be approved of before that. Then the survey 'vas neglected while the Central and Xorthern lines made, and the House adopted the pl::Lns and were being extended. He thought he had specifications. That course had been taken in this answered all the objections taken to the adoption case. The hon. gentleman also objected to the of these plans ; if he had overlooked any, it was due west line ; yet the other evening he said the unwittingly. He did not intend to detain the Central line had doubled its receipts within a House any longer, as there were four more lines little more than twelve months. Could that be still to pass. t:1ken at:l an argun1tmt against the extension of (~uestion put and passed. this Central line? lt mu.;t he taken ritther as an argument in favour of it~ extension in a SOUTH BlliSBAXE RAILWAY. westerlv direction. Ko ({rwernment was re­ The MIXISTEit FOlt WOHKS said, in sponsil)le for the formation of the country, and rising to propose the nwtion standing in his the formation of the country determined the name, that hon. members would recollect that extension of this line in a westerly direction. this was one of those lines passed by the, Assem­ Had the line been taken to Clermont, as the hon. bly last year, but it met with a misfortune in gentleman seemed to think it should have been, another place, which he hoped it would not meet it would h::we taken a different cour,;e altogether. with this time. He trusted that the objections It was said that the line would have been to the line in another place would now be with­ accepted by the townships, because they would drawn, a~ it had been brought to the water. have been benefited. But he had seen little 'J'he great objection to it previously was that it township~ that had been partly ruined by a line had not been brought to the "·ater's edge; and going through then1. Ho'v the hon. gentle1nan it was imagined that the Go\"ernment had not had arrived at the conclusion that the extension decided to what point the line should be of this line due west, mi sary for the shipment of coal. The only addi­ entering on any new extension, the Government tional cost which had been added to the line should give some satisfactory ex] >lanation with re­ since last session was the length from \Voollon­ ferenceto their future railway policy. The delmta­ gabba to the river, a distance of ninety-two tion that waited on the Premier at that time were chains. T.his would cost over £6,000, owing to told that the credit of the colony was exhausted, the necessity for muJdng it substantial along that there was no use going to the London money the street, and also in making it on the tram­ market asking for money for the purpose ilf way principle, so as not to interfere with building railways, and they would have to be the working traffic of the street. The raiL~ would built on a principle different from that hitherto be sunk level with the street, and guarding rails adopted in this colony. This was a railway yet would be placed along the side. The railway to be built, but he (Mr. }'[cLean) did not knmv would be more substantial than an ordinary line. personally where the money was to come from This distance of 92 chains would increase the cost for its construction. It would be necessary to by £6,800, and the total cost of the line would be get that information. He noticed that the £33,000. Hon. members must be aware that this Government had made a certain advance branch line would be a great benefit to the on the plans since last session. Last year the Southern and \V estern line, as they would be terminus was to be at \Voollongabba ; but now able to bring coal from West Moreton down to it was a little nearer the town, "'ncl in the Soath Brisbane. It would be nearly as good as most awkward situation that could have been that from Brisbane to Ipswich; the only differ­ selected in the whole of South Brisbane. In ence would be at the crossing at Oxley Creek, fact, when he first looked at the plam, the idea where, instead of a high-level bridge, there would passed through his mind that the Government be a low-level bridge erected. He believed that wished them to be blocked. The ground where a low-level bridge was quite as suitable as a the station was to be was a block of very high-level bridge, though at the period of floods it limited area, situated at the junction of Vulture would be submerged. The line followed very near and Stanley streets. There would be just about to that originally surveyed by Mr. Fitzgibbun room for a double line of railway between the many years ago, to bring the line from Ipswich to footpath and the portion excavated, and if there Brisbane. It followed that survey for a consider­ was to be any more excavation, what would be left able part of the distance, and when it left that it for station accommodation? That was a point the mostly went along the main road, which had been Government ought to have taken into their serious utilised as far as possible, so as to reduce the consideration. The present site might be suitable cost of the line. for simply taking coal to the river bank; hut if Mr. G RIFFITH : What is the steepest the line .was to be anything more ~han a -mineral gradient? line-if it was meant for passengers-the preRent The MlNISTER l!'OR WORKS said the site would not be found suitable for a station. ruling gradient was 1 in 50, but there were short Other lines might, in time, junction with this pieces of 1 in 30 of what were called compensating line ; and if such were the case, the site now gradients_ The bridge over Oxley Creek was chosen for the station would he found ltltogethm· estimated to cost about £2,000, and the whole inade

railway line was to be brought fully a mile, or a going to OlJpose the present arrangen1ent, though mile and a quarter, further round thn,n it need he believed there was a more excellent and have been. He was not n,wn,re from his own a cheaper wm·. As to the passenger station, knowledge of the land, n,nd his knowledge he could. see some degree of force in the of works of that kind, thn,t there was any n,rgument of the hon. member for Logan with engineering difficulty in the way of bringing the reference to the limited area provided for line direct to South Brisbane. He was sur­ that purpose. It would he n, better plan if prised that the Minister had not given the line were continued down nearer the bridge. them some information upon this point. If There w:'" an admimble site \vithin a few yards it was intended to take a branch line from of the south end of the bridge. This had been this lower down the river, that might be an Government land, n,nd woulcl have answered . excuse for taking it in the proposecl direction. every purpose, there being three or four full­ But they could not tell from the plans now on sized allotments ; but in conse<[Uence of Trea"1ry the table why it should be taken a mile and a half pressure the bncl hn,d been sold. He regretted from W oollongahba, and crossing once or twice exceedingly thn,t the Government hn,cl clisposed of one of the main roads and main arterie~ of traffic the land, for, sooner or later, they would certainly from South Brisbane. He thought the House be under the nece~sity of repurchasing the"e or ought to have information on this matter, and other allotments at n, Yery n,clyancecl price above that they should be told what they were being whn,t had been obtained for them. However, asked to vote for. He did not intend to oppose that was a matter for the future ; n,t present be the motion. He believed the line to be a mea­ wn,s prepared to accept the line as it wn,s, upon the sure of justice which it was only fair they should principle that "half-a-loaf was better than no gh·e to South Brisbane. No doubt it was bread, " and that it might be arranged to suit there that the terminus of the Southern and the convenience of South Brisbane. He was 'Vestern line should have been in the first rather surprised to hear the hon. member instance. It was, to say the lea.•t of it, a piece (~Ir. :\IcLean) suggest that it would not be l1 of bungling that it did not go there. He should passenger line. They knew that, when such a like to hear the reason for taking the line in the convenience as would be afforded by thi" line direction proposed, and so far clown as 'Voollon­ was offered to the public, they fully n,vailed gabba. themseh-e" of it. He (::\Ir. J!'raser) was assured Mr. J!'RASER said that it would certainly be that within n, short time it would become as a matter of surprise to hon. members on the rmnnnerative in reHpect to passenger traffic a.s Opposition side of the House if this line had not the line on the north side of the river. met with some degree of opposition ; but he was Mr. J!'OOTE sn,id this wn,s a. line he felt very surprised at the basis of the oppo•ition of the hon. much interellted in, n,nd he thought it should member for Port Curtis {~fr. ~orton). In the have been con~tructed six or seven year~ ago. first pla.ce, it must be borne in mind that some of No doubt it would have been, if the Govern­ the most important sources of the supply of ment could have passed the line through Par­ coal were at n, distance from the river and from liament. \Vhen thi~ line was before them some water carriage, which involved, first of all, railwn,y three or four yen,rs ago, the interest in the carriage, n,nd subsequent tmnshipment; n,ncl thn,t House was so divided that it was impossible by the proposed arrangement, some of the most for the Governmel.lt to carry their proposal or valuable coal could be at once brought from the to fix upon any terminus. Now, he was glad pit's mouth to the port of shipment. Agn,in, the that the Government had determiner! to carrv hon. member said that railway could not in this the line to the bank of the river. He looked matter compete with water carriage. But it had upon the line as a neceH

tru.;tecl that the proposal, if approved, would measure for which approval was now asked. They not be allowed to lie on the table of the Hou8e were called upon to approve of plans, sections, for months, but that they would have the and books of reference of a railway for which pleasure of being inviterl to the opening of the not a single penny of money had yet been pro­ line within that day twelve months. vided, and not only that, but before even the Mr. \VALSH said, when this motion was be­ Financirtl Statement had been made. It would fore the House on a previous occasion, he be contended by all hon. members who regarded expressed his intention of supporting it on the the subject apart from mere local considerations ground that it was a line well calculated to that they ought first to learn frnm the Colonial Treasurer the financial condition of the country ; develop the real interest~ of the district all< l to rlo good to the colony at large. J'\o doubt, as . and, if the Ciovernnwnt were really in earnest had been statelaee on that oc~:asion the Premier said he line he consiclerecl a very important one indeed. thought- They saw, a short time ago, that complaints were " The Govrrnment woultl not ln going far ant of their made of the British-India steamers sending to \Yay if, with the fiJ1prontl of the llousr, they were authorised to spend £~6,000 on the experiment of a coal 1:-lydney for their coals; but he"took it that, after line on the cheap principle dPsci'ibed Uy his hon. the completion of this line, the coalfields of \Vest colleague. They had the money in their possession, an(l 1Ioreton would be more extensively worked, and he would give plain intimation that if the House that these steamers. would coal at Brisbane. authorh:;eCl him to tlo so he would SlJencl the money if he conlOl:RADLE MEMDEH : That was the lJe transmitted by message in the usual form." Queen-street land. And the Premier, who followed, said- :\fr. \VALSH said the same thing might be said for the South Brisbane land. If it had not " lie held the same view. lie did not think the pro~ vision was at all necm~sary. He could only infor1n the hrought the reserved price-and the reserved House that until he had received the formal sanction of price was thought to be very high-the land the Uonsc for the finding of the money nothing would \nmld have been withdrawn; and the Govern­ be done." ment were thought at the time to have been ThaG debate took place after the I<'inancial very fortunate in obtaining the price they did. Statement had been made, and when the country He should give the motion his cordial support, was in a position to know what the financial believing that the line would be a profitable one. proposals of the Government were. The House ::IIr. DICKSON said that he also intended to was now called upon at a comparatively early give his vote for the construction of the proposed period of the session to vote for a line of railway line of railway, not only because it would develop for which not a penny had been provided, and the coal industry, which they ought to encourage that, to0, before the financial condition of the by every possible legislative means, but also country was made known. They were thus because he had very grave doubts whether, after reversing, and disadvantageously reversing, the what occurred last year, the Governme.nt really order of things that had previously prevailed wished to see the line made. E\:ery hon. mem­ lwre ; and hon. member,, on both sides, if they ber who desired to see parliamentary business could get rid of the npprehensiou that by properly conducted must protest against the form giving expression to that view they were not in which they were called upon to give assent to the prejudicing the fate of the line, wourd concur 410 South Brisbane Railway. [ASSEMBLY.] Soutit Brisbane Railtvay. with him in the opinion he had 0xpressed. His to deal with at the present time? \Vhat was the hon. friends on the Opposition side of the House motion made by the Minister for Works? It were glad to have the railway at any price; and was that the House approves of tho:,;e plans and indeed he could not blame them, for it was sections and book of reference, and the only impoSBible to have much confidence in the que,,tion that came before them was whether Administration with regard to the construction better plans and sections for the rail way could of the line, for if the Government desired to see hP made ; but the hon_ member ran away from that it was a paying line, and one that would the que~tion into all sorts of different matters­ tend to develop the coal industry and extend such as the financial business of the country, settlement, they would have selected a very and the way in which, as he alleged, a deputa­ much different route for it to have token. K o tion which waited on him four weeks ago had doubt the Government had introduced the been snubbed by him-and only referred paren­ line, as they did last session, with a view to thetically to the character of the line for fulfil the expectations of hon. members who which >tpproval was asked. If the hon. mem­ represented local constituencies, so as to induce ber had to contribute any information to the them to give them their support. It would have House at all on the subject, he ought to ha1•e been more dignified on the part of the Govern­ confined himself to that one point-namely, was ment, and the proposal would have been received it the best line they could make between these by the Opposition much more satisfactorily, if, two points-between Oxley and South Brisbane. h<;for~ introducing it, they had followed the con­ As to his having snubbed the deputation, he stltutronal procedure of making known the finan­ would like to know when he had ever snubbed a cial condition of the country, and accompanying deputation. He remembered the deputation their Estimates-in-Chief, as he had before said, introduced to him by the hon. member for with a loan vote embodying a sufficient vote to Logan, some short time ago, but he certainly provide for the construction of the line. He treated it respectfully, and at the close of the should give his support to the line as it was, interview the hon. member.fDr South Brisbane, although not with such perfect tmtisfaction who was present, actually moved a vot'e of thanks as he would have given it had the route to him for his courtesy, which was carried been different, and if the Government had unanimously. He had noticed, however, in funds in hands sufficient for its immediate one of the newspapers-whose statements, how­ construction. He was jmtified in putting that ever, he did not always believe-that, after view of the case, because the Premier, in reply to leaving him, the deputation went to the Town Hall deputations that had waited upon him since last and reversed their resolution, and passed some­ session, had led the public to understand that thing quite opposite; but he scarcely believed the Government were opposed to the construction that was the case. They had now listened to a of a single mile of railway for which parliamen­ lecture from the late Colonial Treasurer as to tary pr~vision hnd not been made, and that he how they ought to manage the finances of the would decline to recommend the House to discuss country, and he had told them that this railway any such railway until the transcontinental rail­ ought not to have been brought forward for way, on the land-grant system, had been put approval until after the Financial Statement was before the country and ratified or otherwise. He made. Had he (Mr. :Nicilwraith) waited until should like to know why such n remarkable change after that Statement was made, the hon. member had come over the Premier's mind, since he so (Mr. Dickeon) would have told the House that decidedly snubbed the deputation that wttited he ought to have brought the motion forward upon him, introduced by his hon. friend (Mr. before making it. The hon. member had done it McLean), about a line of milway to the Logan, so often. It was one of his stock subjects. The Beenleigh, and the southern border. Thnt derm­ matter before the House was perfectly plain. tation received a point-blank denial, and were They asked the approval of the House for certain told that the Government would not recommend plans and sections, the most part of which were to the House the construction of any further submitted to the House last year, and received railways than those which had already been its approval, when a distinct promise was made approved until the land-grant system lutd been by him that they would bring the plans and debated. He trusted his remarks would not sections forward again at the earliest possible be taken as meant to delay the construction period_ They were now rede.eming that promise. of the line ; at the same time, he felt bound A great deal had been made about the Govern­ to protest against the wav in which it had ment with reference to the ordinary process of been submitted for the apr)roval of the House, doing these things, and as to their first getting a unless the Premier went on the principle alluded loan before asking for the approval of the House ; to by him last week, of diverting from the but the reason was quite plain. It was the best construction of the \V estern Railway extension a way that they could get the business through at portion of the £390,000 which was now lying in that time, and the reasons were fully given and the Treasury for that extension, and with '1 por­ appreciated. Hon. members appeared very much tion of which the Colonial Treasurer might, per­ exercised as to how he was going to find the haps, feel justified in proceeding with the South money for the line ; well, he wns going to borrow Brisbane line. If such were the case, it was a it. How could he get it otherwise? Did the financial mistake, and one which he hardly hon. member CM:r_ Dickson) think that he was thought, after the debate of last session, thehm:i. going to present it to the colony? He would gentleman would be willing to make. If the bring in a Loan Bill, of course, at the earliest GoYernment were sincere in the matter, they possible time, and when he got the money he first know that, with the strong support they would construct the railway-possibly sooner. would command from both sides of the House Mr. GRIFFITH said he did not rise to say for this South Brisbane line, the resolution anything about the line to South Brisbane. He could be brought forwnrd and passed at any approved entirely of the construction of that time, and no necessity had been shown why it line, although he believed that the route selected should take precedence of the delivery by the by the Government was not the best. That, Colonial Treasurer of his :b'inancial Statement however, was a matter of which the responsi­ for the yenr now entered upon. bility must rest with the Government; but he The PRKI\IIKR said the hon. gentleman (Mr. rose' to call attention to the somewhat remark­ Dickson) had just told the House parenthetically itble explanation that they had had from the that he himself did not believe in the plans, Premier. The hon. member for Enoggera (M:r. sections,•and book of reference of the proposed Dickson) asked where the money was to come railway. \Vhat was the specittl object they had from, and called attention to the fact that no South Bl'isbane Railway. [30 A'C"Gt:'ST.] Soutlt Brisbane Rail1oay. 4il money had yet been voted for this line. The The PRE::\H:ER said he knew he was out Premier, in answer, spoke of everything except of order in speaking twice, but the ho!1. leacll'l'r that subject, and to that he devoted only of the Opposition had quite misunderstood what two or three words at the end of his speech. he Baid. He did not think anything he s"'id He said that the money had to come out of loan ; juotified the hon. gentleman'" remarks. He (Mr. that a Loan Bill would be introduced, and that ::\Icllwmith) intimated that, of course, the Gov­ the railway would be constructed as soon as the ernment would ask in a loan estimate the sanction lnoney was voted, and perhttps soone1·. \V ell, of the House to the expencliture of the money they had been told by the Government in various required for the construction of this line, and place8 in the colony M late that our borrowing that "'·~ soon as that W[LB done, and pr<'bably powers were exhausb.:cl-that they could mise sooner, the Government would expend it. Ht> no more money by lo:tn at present ; so that it did not 'vant to go into an argu1nent to rJ-how ajlpearecl that they had in the concluding words how thb "'"" done. It h"'d been the practice of of the Premier's speech a suggestion of a new the House ever since he had been a ineritber of policy-a new policy of harrowing. He (2\Ir. it. They had never waited until they borro'lveil Griffith) was one of those who contended the exact money voted by Parliament, hut if they that the borrowing pawers of the colony were had any unexpended money from loans they kept not exhausted, provided they acted prudently the loan in h"'nd until they wantetl money ; and, and wisely, "'nd made proper provision for having got the sanction of Parliament for the raising necessary revenue tp pay the interest expenditure, he considered tlmt he would be per­ on money borrowed ; hut io secmecl to him fectly authorised to expend it. to be strange that so great a change of the Mr. GRIYI!'ITH said he did not intend to Government policy should be announced in what comme11t upon authorised expenditure, but upon he might call this casu"'! manner. He did not wlmt he understood the Premier to say-that he propose to s"'y much about the f[Uestion of a would spend money before the expenditure was new Loan Bill-it would be time enough to authorised by the House. discuss that when the Government brought it in-but the proposal to make a milway or to The PHKMIEU said thnt his words were that expend any money "when the money is voted or as soon as they obt"'ined the money they would sooner," was one that deserved "'ttention. The spend it, and possibly sooner. It had been the right of the Government to expend money that practice of the House ever since he had been a had not beeH voted by Parliament W[LS a right t)lat member. had never yet been asserted, and it remained )Hr. GHIFFITH: I did not understand you for the prellent Government to assert that right ; so. but let him remind them that the practice of 2\Ir. RE}, said the hon. member for Enoggera expending money before it had been authorised by had been blamed for h"'\ing the impertinence Parliament had been severely criticised in v"'rious to make inrtuiries with reg"'rd to the fimmcial colonies. In the Colony of \V estern Australia, proposals of the Premier ; but he (Mr. Rea) within the l"'st twelve months, it was asserted that wanted to show th"'t hon. gentleman that it was the Government had expended money without its · not from the Opposition side of the House alone being previously sanctioned by the Legislature, that those st"'tements had been thought to be and the conduct of the Governor for authorising necessary, because he could quote to him the such expenditure was brought under the notice opinions of a very strong henchni.an of his own, of the House of Commons not many months taken from the leading article of a paper of which since. In the Colony of New South \Vales, he (the Premier) would not deny the influence-the when Lord Belmore was Governor, exception Cow·ia of J<'riday last, the 26th of August. Hero was taken to his conduct in allowing the Govern­ were a few of that gentleman's opinions as to what ment to expend money on the authority of the the Treasurer ought to have done and what he Executive Council which had not been voted by ought to do now. He would not take up the Parliament. A long correspondence took plaee time of the House by reading the whole, but between the Governor and the Secretary of would simply read what was therein s"'id with State, and the result W[LS that the Governor regard to the Treasurer's conduct:- was in effect censured for his conduct in allow­ " l'"ndonbtedly, no constitutional Opposition \Vonld ing his Ministers to bke snch action. The ronsent to adopt railway plans and sections before the importance of the provision of the law rertnir­ J.i'inancial Statement had been made, unless a case o.f ing the authority of Parliament to be given greater urgency were shown than was on 1Yednesday before money was expended was, on that occasion, alleged to exist." very strongly insisted upon. It was the duty That was not from the Opposition Hide of the of members who respected the principles of House. The next was- constitutional government to call attention to H It 1nay be urged that the l\finisterial supporters any proposed devbtion from those principles. ought to have demanded information on these points, At the present time they httd in effect the Pre­ but fron1 their J>OSition the delay is J1robably natural mier's words-" I have the money, and I will and unavoidable, as the direct consequence of irregular spend it. " The fact that he h"'d the money warfare. )foreover, they Jlrofess con1idence in the Gov­ was no authority whatever to spend it. If the e:ument. B1lt no such consideration can be assumed Premier had said plainly, as he said bst year, to infincne0 Opposition members/' " We do not propose to expend the money until Therefore the necessity w:ts thrown upon them, its exnenditure has been authorised," he would and they were blamed for not examining the be miderstood ; but he said in effect that he projects of the Ministry sufficiently to g"'in would spend the money when he liked ; that information. he h"'d it, and would spend it. Although "They (the Opposition), by usage, have not only the he (Mr. Griffith) desired to see this rail­ right, but are in duty bound to distruf't thq Government way made, he preferred that it should never of the day, and to ascertain at the earliest IlOSsible time be made than that such important princi­ what is to be its financial policy." ples of constitutional government should be And had they not done that, or as much as violated. He thought the inference he had th"'t ? In f"'ct, they were blamed for not doing drawn could be fairly drawn from the Premier's so; and yet just now the hon. Treasurer taunted speech, and that he was right in calling attention the hon. member for Enoggera with officiou"ne,,B to it, and saying th"'t it should not go nucha]. in m"'king the inrtuiries he did. lenged that the Government could spend money "Business of such importance as the adoption of rail .. before its expenditure had been sanctioned by way plans and sections is allowed to go on before the Parliament. people's representatives have been informecl how the 412 Soutlt Brisbctne Railway. [ASSEMBLY.] Railway, Toowoombct to Higlifielcls. public cngap;emeuts are to be met, how the constantly Ministry for bringing before the country and augmenting interest charge is to lJe ]H'ovidecl for, and carrying into execution this short line of railway. whether any revision of the 1mblic burc.lcns is in con~ tellllllation." Mr. SIMPSOJ'\ said he had every intention That was not from the Opposition side of the of supporting this line of railway, but he almost House. The next statement on the same topic began to think now that he should vote against was this:- it. \Vhen the hon. member for Ipswich said he was tttone with the ::\Iinistry, he(~Ir.Simpson)thought " The Estimates do not disclose the Tremmrcr's in ten~ tions. 'l'he delivery of the Budget is the most important that somethin;i must be going wrong, and that event of the sesi'iion, and there is. no excuse for clclav- it was time for him to look about him and ing it a week longer than is absolutely necessary.'' ~ be;;-in to criticise this line, in order to see whether he should support it or not. He had quite made That was not from the Opposition side of the up his mind upon this subject before the hon. House. Finally- member spoke, but he must confess he was " The eonutr.r would Imve SlllJlJOrted them (the rather doubtful about it now. Opposition) even in obstrnrtivc measure::;, if the infor- Mr. DEPOIX-TYHEL said he had no idea of 1nation was illlJlroperly withheld." · opposing this rail way ; but he should first of 'Vhat more could have been said from this side all like to haYe an expression of opinion upon it of the House? Had they ever said half as much from the other member for South Brisbane (Mr. with regard to the conduct of the Ministry; more Kingsford). One hon. member for South Bris­ especially when they had again and again heard bane (Mr. Fraser) had practically told them that the hon. Colonial Secretary say that he and his the matter ttmount'ed to a question of having compeers would conduct the business of the half-a-loaf or no bread. He had not made up country as they thought proper ? After the his mind as to what way he should vote upon quotations he had just read, hon. members on his this matter, if it came to a vote-which he did side of the House could not be taunted with being not think it would, from the general expression officious in making these inquiries. He might of opinion they had had. He should like to further tell the coal-owners that they need not hear an expression of opinion from the second thank the Ministry at all forth at rail ,\-ay. They hon. men\ber for South Brisbane, and if he was had come to see that the new freezing works of the same opinion as the member who had down the river could not be successfully carried already spoken, he (Mr. De Poix-Tyrel) should on in 8easons like this, when there was no be prepared to ,upport the motion. grass for sheep to subsist upon in transit ; ::\Ir. KIXGSFORD said that, a:s the hon. and, therefore, the rail way was necessary for member (Mr. De. Poix-Tyrel) had referred to the successful carrying on of that trade. There him, he might be allowed to say that he thought was no grass, and, if this meat export trade his opinion was pretty well known. To give his was to be successful, they saw the necessity of opinion now would be only repeating what he getting this railway constructed as soon as they had said before ; would be only repeating a set could. He hoped they should hear no more of truisms. He was sure also that the unanimity taunts from. the Treasurer to that side of the of opinion shown by hon. members to-night­ House for asking unnecessary questions about which was, by the way, a rare exception­ where money was to come from. rendered it unuecesfmry for him to say a word Mr. MACFARLAJ'\E said that, as represent­ about it. It had evidently at last commended ing a constituency that had as much interest in itself to the common sense of hon. members on this railway to South Brisbane as any other, and the Opposition side of the House, and that was one that the railway would benefit more than any to him a source of gratification. It was quite other, he thought he was right in making some unnecessary for him to say anything more upon remarks with reference to it. He was quite at the subject. one with the Ministry when thev recommended :Mr. l!'RANCIS said he had no intention of to the country that this line shouid be made. He speaking to this motion until the hon. member therefore approved of the plans and sections, but, for Dalby got up to speak, but he had very much at the same time, he thought that the hon. gentle­ pleasure in rising to support the resolution before man might have reached the terminus by a more the House. He believed, as his colleague {Mr. direct route. He had no doubt, however, that Macfarlane) had said, that Ipswich and West the Minister for \Vorks had good reasons for JI.Ioreton would benefit, perhaps, more by the taking the route that particular way, more line under consideration than any other town or especially if they intended at some future time district in the colony. When they had the rail­ to carry it further. In that case, it might ulti­ way, those who could might bring down sheep, mately be the best route of all. His constituents bullocks, and wool ; and the miner- might bring were very anxious to see that line made ; in fact, any amount of tin and copper, so long as long before he entered the House at all, he had they could send down their coal. He believed been ·agitating in the Ipswich district for the that the Minister for \Vorks could not have construction of this line ; and, of course, he was presented a motion before the House that not. going to offer any frivolous objections to the would be more likely to please the constituency making of the line, even if it did not meet his he (Mr. Francis) represented than the one now views or the views of his constituents in every under discussion. Not only Ipswich, but the respect. It would affect his district very much­ whole of \Vest JYioreton, would be very pleased to indeed, perhaps more than South Brisbane itself­ see a line open from Oxley to South Brisbane ; and it would do more good to the colony than per­ and he believed it mattered very little to them haps any other line that had been constructed. It where the money for its construction came from : would offer an outlet for the ·carrying of their pro­ that was a matter for the consideration of the duce to market that the district never had before. Treasurer. He could make a very long speech Some members of the House were of opinion that upon this motion, but as he was quite sure the they had not sufficient coal in that district to resolution would be carried, whether he Rpoke keep the railway going by itself. He did not say or not, or whether he voterl for or against it, they had, but they had other things besides he would say no more at present. · coal ; and he believed that the coal would go a Question put and passed. long way indeed to make the line a payable one. Indeed, he believed it would be a fairly re­ RAILIYAY FROM TOOWOOMBA TO munerative one ; and, looking at it in that way, HIGHFIELDS. he was sure the people of the district would The J\'IIXISTER FOR WORKS said that congratulate the Minister for Works and the when this Toowoomba to Highfields line, ~·ht Railway .from [30 AtrGUST.] Toozvoomba to IIignfields. 413

J\Ieringandan, was before the House last session, regarrl to the line under discussion, tl;e Minister he was compellerl in the interest' of the conntry for \\'<>rk, ha•! not told them anytluug, ~xcept to withdmw it, with the intention of having that it was to he an agricultural line, and fresh surveys made, and in the hope that he probablv a timber line; and that the money that would be able to reduce the cost of the line. this line would require, together with future Fresh surveys had been made since, hut he was expenses, would be £4,300 per mile. His idea of extremely sorry to say that tlw cost of the line branch lines was that if they could take the had not been recluced very much. He believed place of ordinary metal road:.;, at something like that he could have reduce(I the cost of the line the price of £2,500 per mile, they might be considerably by taking it from a point on the justified in making them ; but at the rate of top of the mnge near Harlaxton, but that would £4 300 per mile he did not think this was a line have had the effect of taking the line a consider­ th;t the Minister for \Vorks could properly bring able distance away from agricultural settlement. forward. Reconsidered that this line would be one Therefore the olci line had been followed from of those lines that 1nmld bring their own curse Toowoomba for a distance of 4~ miles, and then on our railway system ; and thought the House it left the main line near Gowrie Creek. After ou"ht to pause on this question, as this was a log­ crossing this creek it rose some 1GO feet in about rolling line. The hon. the Minister for \Vorb 2l miles, where it crossed the watershed between called it a timber line, and he thought he had Gowrie and Meringandan Creeks; thence it fol­ proved that it was no idle title. They discovered, lowed down the right-hand bank of the latter on coming to this line, that the a~;ricultnral pro­ to a point opposite the ~Ieringandan school-house, duce, so far as they could learn from the returns, and thence direct through the heart of the Merin­ was most precarious. He would say that this line gandan settlement. It would be chiefly an would do away with any profits they might agricultural and timber line ; and the ruling receive from the Southern and "\V.estern line ; and gradients would be 1 in 50, though there were a if they had such lines as this they would find few of 1 in 30, supposing the loads to be going that they would have very great difficulty in down to Toowoomba. Hon. members must makin" headway at all with theirmilway system. recollect that in leaving Toowoomba they des­ If this"resolution came to a division, and if he cended until they began to leave the main line, found other hon. members opposing it, he should whm they began to ascend the Eange again; so also oppose it as being one decidedly inimical to that they were going up the Range, as it were, the interests of the country. twice from Brisbane to Highfields : that was, The MINISTER :FOR LANDS said he could going up first on the Brisbane side of the Hange, not a<7ree with the remarks of the hon. member and up again on the Toowoomba side, though, for Jl.'fitche!l. In the motions which he had of courRe, not se high. The .height was a few. made to the House this session, he (Mr. De hundrer! feet in a distance of two miles. The Satge) had been unsuccessful in impres;;ing his line wa", therefore, rather stiff, but the stiff ideas on the House. "\Vhere the hon. gentleman gradients of 1 in 30 were all with the load going had got his ideas about this railway to Crow's clown the line to Toowoomba. There were a Nest, and the agricultural district of Highfields, great many bridges and culverts to he con­ he (Mr. l'erkins) did not know. It appeared structed, and these would, together with thestiff­ that the hon. member had been in many parts, ne~s of some of the gradients, bring the cost to and had been active in attending many things­ £4,300 a mile, which was rather higher e\;en than to his sheep, to his Yast interests out west, and he the cost of the main lines. The cost of the line could aho go and take a peep at the Crow's N e.~t to Highfields was £49,000, or at the rate of and find out the resources of that place. The hon. £4,313 per mile. Last year, when he withdrew member might get up and say there would be no this proposal, the cost estimated was £4,429 a traffic on that line, and that tl}e Minister for \Vorks mile; so that there was only a difference of about had given no statistics to show why it should he £112 or £113 a mil8. He believed most hon. constructed; but he (Mr. l'erkins) could tell the members were aware that he intended to lay the hon. member-and he was talking of a place he way with GO-lb. rails, and by using some of the was well acquainted with-that if that railway rails from the Main Hange, where a heavier sec­ did not pay, or if it was an error to make that tion of rails was about to be laid, he had no doubt railway, that e\'ery other railway, outside of the he would be able to bring down the cost to about trunk lines, that was on the schedule at the £3,700 or £3,GlJO. Thi.~ was taking the value of present time would be in a simihr position. these rails to be £3 10s. per ton, the price which For his own part, having looked into the matter he could get for them, good or bad, in Syclney ; on different occasions, he would truthfully say and allowing that to be their value, he would he belieYed that there was more traffic-more save £500 or £600 per mile. genuine traffic-on that road at the present time Mr. GRIFFITH : What is the whole length? than on any other road off the main roads that he knew of It had surprised him from time to The MINISTEH FOH WOHKS: 11:l-miles. time when he had been on these roads, and he had He might explain to hon. members that on the been also surprised at the unascertained wealth section to Crow's Nest the gradients would be so that would be opened out. \Vhen the line was favoumble that the cost would be reduced to carried on to Crow's Nest it would be a great about £3,000 per mile. ..IVhen twelve miles of benefit to the whole colony, and he could inform this line to Crow's Nest was voted in 1879 the the House that this was a district that had cost was estimated at £2,500 per mile. He been very much neglected. In the olden times, might also mention that he was, to a certain ex­ twentv or twenty-two years ago, when the tent, tied down to this route, because the word Downs were almost uno"ccupied, and when an "Meringandan" was inserted in thA resolution ao-ricultural reserve was wanted, instead of the that was adopted by the House. He might have p~ople who wanted to embark in the busineos got over that difficulty by skirting Meringandan, of farmino- using the Downs land, by some but he believed he had taken the best route by contrh·anc~ or other what was called an agri­ taking the line right through the heart of the cultural re>erve was proclaimed up to High­ agricultural country. fields; and, although the dense forests pre,ented Mr. DE SATGE said he believed this to be a great difficulties, many settlers overcame those problematical line. Ill the last line they had difficulties, and country land was ve~y much before them-that of South Brisbane-there was improved. The land was excellent-It would a very distinct produce laid down for carrying now grow anything-in addition to which there upon the line, which showed that they would was valuable timber growing upon it also to be derive some direct profit from it ; but, with taken into account. At the present time there 414 Rail7vay from Toowoomba, Etc. [ASSEMBLY.] B1·isbane Valley Railway.

\vas a vast nun1ber of te::uns engaged, on the road he believed, something like £8,000 to which the from Crow's Nes~ to Toowoomba, in the carriage line was entitled ; and perhaps the Minister of timber and other produce, and it was not lHl for \Yorks would be >1ble to effect some other lUlUSlUl.1 thin~ to f-lee aR rnany as fifty waggm1~ in HasingH to 1nake up the (leficiency. Believing a day on thmr way to Toowoomba. In the face thilt the line ought to be constructed, he should of that, he was surprised to hear the hon. member give i~ his he>1rty support. for ::Yiitchell-who had so much information upon (1uestion put and pas"ed. other subjects, and who might be so useful a member of that House-get up and make the BRISBAKE VALLEY HAILWAY. statements which he had made, and which he The :YliNISTJUl :~''OR WOHKS said th>1t hacl no reason to make-namely, that this was a this line, like the last, h>1d been passed by the log-rolling line. The hon. gentleman, he believed, Assembly lust session, and withdrawn, he be­ wantetl tu make it appe:w that he was looking lieved, by the Postnmster-Ueneral when before after the affnirs of the colony ; but it nppearecl the Lcpper Chamber. To anticirate ilny remarks to him (Mr. Perkins) that he must have some­ from the hon. member for l\Iitchell, who ap­ thing in his eye more remote even than the peared to be under the impression th>1t branch transcontinentnl railwny, and he felt that it had lines should be more cheaply constructed than some bearing on the hon. member's motion. The main lines, he might mention that such WiiS not hon. member could not see matters a., others the rule, as the main lines at present under con­ saw them. He (::Ylr. Pm·kins) thought the hon. struction went through country which was com­ member neve1' had the enterprise to enter into parative easy and free from engineering difficul­ the forests of this district, as his pursuits and tie~ ; and the bmnch lines, with one or two occupations we rein another direction at that time, exceptions, were therefore more costly thiln the and this timber traffic was not then in existence, main lines. There were also other reasons why so that the hon. gentleman was a stranger to it; the bmnch lines should he more costly-they ilnd he (Mr. Perkins) would invite him, when he usually went through occupied country, and many went up to the Downs, to take >1 look at the things had to be provided which upon the main Crow's K e•t, as there was not much difficulty lines could be dispensed with. The m>1in lines, in going there, ilnd he could sntisfy himsdf going through land unoccupied for agricultural that this was a truly legitimate undertaking. settlement, necessitnted fewer ro>1d diversions, The line would have his he>1rty support, bec>1use fewer public road level crossings, no occupation he believed tlmt settlement would follow hard crossings, very little fencing, and no gate-hou8ef-i. ilnd f>1st in its wilke, >1nd that immense forests Altogether there was n difference in the cost of of trees would become ilccessible, and thilt from £300 to £700 per mile->1 very considerable before another decade there would be a large item in the cost of >1 line. In the C"ase of the population. The subject had already been dis­ line under discussion the difference was £524 per cussed in the House, >1nd he thought the m>1tter mile; in that of the Oxley line it WiiS £657. He would hilve been considered " foregone con­ ho]Jed the hon. member for Mitchell, in any clusion. He now left it to the good sense of remilrks he might make, would not again forget hon. members whether they would agree with those circumstmlCeS. This line sLarted from the the railw>1y or not. m>1in line about two miles from Ipswich, at a Mr. l\IcLEAN said he had no intention of point 25 miles 61~ chains from Brisb>1ne; it then insinuating that the hon, member for l\litchell crossed Ironpot >111d other creeks, and, after had anything in his eye for the future, but he tmYersing >1bout ten miles of broken ground, it could not agree as to this being >1 problematical struck good country and continued through it to line. He believed the Government were justi­ the point of termination. Dnring its course it fied in making this line, if any line could be skirted the Brisbane River, which consiclembly justifinble, and he quite ilg'reed with the Minister enhanced the cost of constructing the line. for Lands thilt it would be a paving line. It As the line hild to croiiB >1 great many creeks, WiiS some five years since the question had been gullies, and deep ravine~ communicating with the first discussed, the proposal having been first river, the culverts required were >1lmost imnnner­ made by the Liberal Government. He knew ilhle, and this had tended to make the c0st of the difficulties that settlers had to contend ·with construction much greater than it would other­ through bad ro>1ds between Toowoomba, High­ wise h>1ve been. The earthworks, also, were not fields, and Crow's Nest were very great, and very e>1sy ; they would run into 4,,000 yards per thilt >1 l>1rge timber tmde was now being carried rnile, whereas the average on mainhnes \Vas under on which would be increased if railw>1y filcilities 1,000 yards per mile. That made >1 very con­ were provided. He was quite at one with the sidemble difference. A number of named creeks Government, and would give the line his hearty -including Ironpot and S>1ndy Creeks-hild to support, believing that the construction of this be crossed, and there were also m>1ny othercreeks line would do justice to a very deserving class of -which necessitated iln even larger amount of the community, who had struggled long against timber-work-one requiring >1 bridge of fifteen adverse circumstilnces in connection with ro>1d openings, of twenty feet each, to span it. The communic>1tion, and that the Government were total length of the line was twenty-five miles, warranted in constructing it on the grounds that and it stopped within three miles of the Belle­ it would be a paying line. Yiew Head Station, and within seventeen miles of the township of Esk. The policy of making l\Ir. MILES said he believed the claims of this line had been thoroughly discussed and was this line were equal or superior to those of ilny understood by every hon. member, except, per­ other branch line. In >1dditi0n to the immense haps, the hon. member for Mitchell. If, how­ tmde in timber between Crow's Kest and ever, that hon. member felt deeply interested Toowoombil which would be facilitated, there in the subject of branch lines, he could inform WiiS >1 closely-settled country to be provided with himself of all particulilrs concerning this line by me>1ns of communication; and he had much reading the Ha nsa?'d report of former discussions. pleasure in supporting the proposal. He should, The cost of the line would be £95,463, being at however, like to fiSk the Minister for ·works the mte of £3,818 per mile-thilt WiiS to say, less where he was going to find the money? He than was proposed last year, when the approval noticed thilt the amount voted Wil< £30,000 for of ten miles was asked for. The sum of £100,000 twelve miles at £2,500 per mile; but as the hon. and odd had been voted for the line, and it was pro­ gentleman stilted that the line would cost £4,500 posed now to make twenty-five miles out of the per mile, hon. members h>1d a right to know forty-two miles. The ruling gradient was 1 in 50, where the balance was to come from. There was, but for a few short lengths the gmdient was 1 in Brisbane Valley Railway. [30 AuGUST.] Brisbane Valley Railu·ay. 415

30; these latter were, however, compensating gra­ pay before they went in for any !nm;e. No figu_res dients, which would not interfere with the work­ had been given to sho\v ho\v tlus hne \V::tR go1ng ing, and they had been introduced in order to to pay, and he should vote again«t it. lessen the cost as much as possible. The minimum :Mr. DE SATGB said that during the last few curve was a.. five-chain radius, but there were weeks he had made some inquiries as to the very few so short, and these had been made, in probability of the line to Fassifern paying in the connection with the gradients, to reduce the cost slightest degree. The source of his i?formation ·as far as possible. · He therefore moved- was a g-entleman deeply interested m the pro­ 1. That the House approves of the Plans, Sections, ancl gress of the Fassifern line. He (.:VIr. De Satge) Book of: Reference of the Brisbane Yalley Branch IJine, asked him to strain his mind as much as he as laid upon the table of the House, Oth .I.Ub'llSt, 1881. possibly could into telling him the amount of 2. That the said Plans, Sections, and l~ook of Re­ possibility there was of that line paying. He ference b3 forwardea to the IJegislative Conncil for their arlproval, by 1nessage in the usual form. said there was no possibility or probability of it paying. For a line from Brisbane V alley to Mr. GRLFJ!'ITH very much regretted that Mount };sk, constructed at that rate per mile­ this line was to be made at a price above that £100,000 for fort~·-two miles-there was not the mentioned by the Minister for \Vorks in 1879. remotest probability of its paying.. There was The money was then voted at the rate of £2,500 not even timber to carry it on. It was one of per mile. He (Mr. Griffith) understood that the those lines on which the policy of the Govern­ Government were going to try to make the line ment had had to give way to the exigencies of a for that price. He, for one, thought the line majority. It ought to be refused, and they could be made for that. The construction of ought not to increase the enormous debt of the branch lines in the same expensive manner as colony for a line which there was not the least main lines was really "discouragement to branch probability would pay. If there was any opposi­ lines, and would tend to prevent them from being tion to the line he should vote against it. constructed. At one time the Minister for Works thought they should be cmmtructed on a Mr. THORN said that he believed the Fas­ much lighter scale. sifern line when extended to J!'assifern would pay handsomely, ancl would be one of the best The J\U;{ISTER l•'OR WORKS: Never. branch lines in the colony. So with regard Mr. GRIJ!'FITH said he knew the Mini~ter to the Brisbane V alley line ; it would be the for ·works would contradict what he said. It best paying of all the branch lines. He would was not the first time he had done so, and it was ask the hon. member (.:VIr. De Satge) whether, not the first time he (Mr. Griffith) had corrected when he assisted to vote money for telegraph him. \Vhen this matter was before the House lines and postal services, he asked if they would last year the hon. gentleman had contradicted pay? \Vhen the line from Maryborough to him, and he then quoted from a speech he made Gympie was proposed it was declared that it on the 26th August, 1879. The hon. gentleman would never pay ; yet it was paying handsomely. then said- He was a great adYocate for it, and knew well it woulay anything with regard to this line, as the tion to the subject when 11iniHter for \V orks, ariTuments used in favour of it were the same as and he was satisfied that if the Minister for th~se which had been submitted last year; but \Vorks would consider the subject, and show a new light had been thrown on the matter. It himself really in earnewt, he would find that a was said that there was no timber. Now, he had much greater length of line could be constructed always been under the impression that·it was the for the money that had been voted. best timber land in the colony. In one place Mr. SIMPSON said that when they were dis­ alone on the other side of the Esk, there was cussing the Northern line the other night he some 'of the fine"t cedar in the colony, and the expressed his intention of opposing some of these aiTricultural land also was good. The farm of branch lines ; and as the extension now before J\Ir. McConnell alone would supply all Brisbane the House was one of those he intended to with hay, corn, and chaff. He had been told vote a>(ainst, he would give his reason for so by two gentlemen living on this line that they doing. He knew the country through which would be prepared to give the Government 4 the line was going, and he did not know where per cent. on their outlay for the use of the line­ the traffic was at present. There was no cultiva­ an offer that would not be made for any other tion along the line, nor was there any timber line the Government had. On both sides of the traffic, and he did not see how the line was to V alley there was any quantity of land fit for pay. He should like to hear·a little about how agriculture. :For the want of facilities of car­ the line was going to pay, before he voted for riage, people had been prevented from purchas­ it. Ipswich had got its branch line; Brisbane ing the land there. They knew very well from had got its branch line; and he should like to whom the hon. member for Mitchell got his see whether all the branch lines were going to information about the Fassifern line. It was 416 Brisbane Valiey Railway. [ASSEMBLY.]

frmn :1 i-\qnntter al1ont the l''a~sifp,rlJ, who (lid of lhiHh:.tHt\ tlwngh for wha,t l'f'.:.t.f.;on h{' (l\Ir. Bot want the lhw to g-n within twellt'\"" 1nilo~ of Per~He) di{l not know. Thev ~m

cost of construction must be in the survey of the 1tructcd under £3,300 or £3,500 per mile, and line. It was there the cost was made up. A therefore the original idea had flown to the winds. good survey might reduce the cost of a line, but He begged to point out that th61:e was not only when they had a country which was undula­ the cost of comtrnction to be considered, but the ting-river after river followed by little bits of cost of maintenance as well. The Minister for hill-no amount of careful survey could make the \Varks had pointed out the number of bridges line cheap. The difficulties had to be overcome, and culverts that would be required on these and that was the case with these branch lines lines under the Range. His (Mr. De Satge's) they were making under the Range-the cause experience was sufficient to show him that. of the high rate of cost being the nature of the floods, and general wear and tear of bridges and country. In no case of this kind would they culverts, had, above all else, to be considered in be able to make a line cheaply. This line was the cost of these lines ; and they should not 27:l; miles in length, and he was extremely sorry saddle themselves with lines that would not pay to say that the cost would be more than £2,500 for years to come, and which would require a per mile. The cost would be £3,310 per mile, or higher rate of maintenance for keeping np than a total of £90,000 for the 27:l; miles. But there any other lines in the colony. He thought that was one little item which was added to that was a serious objection to the branch lines which they were not in the habit of charging to generally of the colony, and he regretted very the railways, but which he thought should be so much to hear what had been said with regard to charged-the cost of carriage of material. That their cost-a statement which wo,1ld be read had been added in this case, and increased the throughout the colony with a very great deal of cost by £80 per mile. The earthworks on this distre~s, arising from the enormous aggregation of line were not so heavy as on those they had just the debt placed upon the people's 8houlders by the passed, but the timber-work was greater, the construction of works which were certainly non­ bridges being a considerable item in the cost. productive, and would not pay the cost of main­ The earthworks were nearly 4,000 cubic yards taining them. \Vith regard to the matter of per mile. They followed the main road for repurchasing these lands, that was a very serious a distance altogether of six miles, and it was question, and he hoped that the :Minister for the being able to do so that in any way re­ \Vorks would have a few words to say with duced the cost of the line to what it was. reference thereto. \Vas it not better not to push Hon. members must also recollect, in esti­ on this railway, but to wait until that matter mating the cost of thi5 line and comparing it was definitely settled ? because, although the with the promise that the branch lines should land was very rich, the railway would only be made cheaply, that a sum of £400 per benefit some 200 farmers, the great portion of mile had to be added to the cost-the increase whom were tenants. \Vould not the repurchase in the co,;t of the rails since the promise was of these lands be the best thing to justify the made. So that this line actually, if the same construction of this line, which at present was conditions existed now as in 1879, would cost at perfectly unjustifiable? He thought it would be the rate of £2,900 per mile, or, taking off the £80 much better to consider the repurchase of the per mile which he had put on for the ca:r:riage of Canning Downs Estate, and if repurchased to railway material, the net cost would be £2,800 make it almost prohibitive to get back that per mile ; so that it would not be in reality so land. very much in advance now of the estimate formerly made. The bridge-work alone on this Mr. HORWITZ said the hon. member had short branch line amounted to £11,000, a very misunderstood the Minister for \Vorks when he large item indeed on the length of 27 miles. He told them that an annual rental of 10s. per acre begged to move the resolution. was being paid for land on the Canning Downs Estate to be traversed by this railway. He Mr. DE SATGE said that this was a line had not much to say in bUpporting the motion, which the Government would do well to with­ except that the population of the country draw until the settlement of the land question surrounding the proposed railway was very on the Darling Downs had reached a further large, and likely to considerably increase if this issue. He regretted the absence of the hon. line were constructed. The land was capable of member for Darling Downs, who would, no growing wheat, mai~e, . and other cereals, and doubt, have had a good deal to say on this was also well studded with valuable timber, the question. carriage of which would add greatly to the Several HoNOURABLE MEMBERS : He is here. revenue of the railway. Mr. DE SATGE had not seen the hon. gentle­ Mr. MILES said it appeared that the hon. man ; but, as he was there, he would no doubt member for Mitchell had only one idea-that make his own explanation. There would be no was, to advocate the construction of railways doubt that a great portion of the land through proposed by himself. He (Mr. Miles) had which this railway would pass was not Crown read a report of the hon. gentleman's speech land, but the property of a large estate-owner to the people of Tambo, in which he told them in that neighbourhood ; and he would make his idea of what should be the railway policy bold to say that the line would improve the of the country, and this included the three value of that estate beyond anything else, and lines he had proposed. The hon. member, how­ that, therefore, if the Government ever in­ ever, was candid enough to say that it was no tended to resume or to re-buy-as had been pro­ good to advocate the lines, as he did not believe posed in a motion to that effect before the House the House would adopt them. Since the hon. -any of the land on the Darling Downs, they member had been in the House he had found had better postpone the making of this railway fault with everything. ]'\ot a single line was until that was effected, as the land would be proposed but the hon. member opposed because very much increased in its value by the making it did not come from himself. The hon. member of this line. He felt certain that, as soon as the now said it would be better not to construct owner of the land heard about this railway, he this railway until the matter of repurchasing would add very largely to the value of the land of the Canning Downs Estate was considered. tenanted in the way which had been quoted Did he think that it would make twopence by the Minister. They came now-with this difference to the owners of that estate whether third branch line at a much increased cost of the railway was constructed now or some other construction-to the destruction of that happy time? It was hardly necessary for him (Mr. scheme they had originally heard about the branch Miles) to comment upon the agricultural re­ lines. He could see that none were to be con- sources of the land ; the glowing description Warwick to [30 AuGusT.] ]{illarney Railway. 419

given by the Minister for \Vorks and the Minis­ thought it would he quite as well to accept the ter for Lands, on a previous occasion, exceeded plan suggested by the hon. member for Mitchell, anything he could say. It consisted of the finest to withdraw the motion until the question of agricultural country, capable of producing the repurchasing these lands was settled; for, if the most valuable timbers. Canning Downs Estate were recovered, the settle­ Mr. O'SULLIVA~ said the hon. member for ment upon the laud would probably be greater Mitchell had a certain set speech for every than at the present time. However, he would branch railwn,y that came before the House. It support the adoption of the plans and sections consisted of ''too big a. price," ''non-productive," of this line ; and had simply risen to protest n,nd "perfectly unjustifiable." \Vhy this speech against the statement made by the Minister was made to apply to every branch railway he for \Vorks, that there were thousands of acres did not know, except it was done to support the of land for settlement, when there was really no hon. member's own rail vray proposals. The hon. land available for selection. F nless they got member had made capital of the fact that the closer settlement in that part of the country the line would cost £3,500 per mile ; but he should line would never pay; but should the Government recollect that that was only the epgineer's price, reserve those lands there was not a district in and that possibly it might be reduced to the Queensland where settlement would be closer. extent of £500 by competition. He had also put Mr. SIMPSON said that after the speeches forward the very able idea that it would be :1 they had just heard he felt quite at fault. One of very good thing to buy the Canning Downs the hon. members for Darling Downs (Mr. Kates) Estate. The owner of Uanning Downs was not had told the House that without closer settle­ a fool; he knew that if the railway was not ment the line would never pay; while his colleague "made to-clay it would be to-morrow, •o that it (Mr. Miles) advocn,tecl it warmly, and was hacked made little or no difference as far as he was con­ up by hon. members on both sides of the House cerned. Did the hon. member for Mitchell not with surprising equanimity. ]'or himself, he know that they could tax these lands according was very doubtful if the line would pay. He to their productiveness, as they ought to be? did not think it would ; hut it was of no use There was no necessity whatever for the Govern­ saying anything against it, as the n1ajority in its ment to purchase this estate, and while he was favour was likely to he so very large. in this House-and he hoped to live a year or }fr. MESTON said he knew the ground very two longer-he would oppose anything of the well over which the line would pass, and he kind. \Vhy not make large owner,; of rich lands believed it to be one of those branch lines which pay a proper tax ? 'fhat was his idea. He did were indispensable to the success of agricultural not think there could be any difference-of opinion districts. After heayy rain the rich alluvial about making this line. It could not be proved black soil of that portion of the Darling Downs -in fact, it would be an absurd statement to was rendered 'luite unfit for traffic. They were say that this line would not pay. "Whether it now endeavouring to attract population to the paid or not the railway would pass through a colony, and there was nothing like railways country impassable by any other means in wet enabling settlers to transfer their produce to weather. Some parts .of the land was composed the markets to effect that purpose. If they of cloggy black soil, oyer which one could not could enable their Immigration Agent in England travel at a greater rate than a mile a day. He to say to the ]>eople, "\Ve offer you cheap land took this opportunity of saying one word with and cheap railways for yonr passenger and goods reference to the statement of the hon. member traffic," that would be the most effective emi­ for Rosewood (Mr. Meston), who wished that gration speech that could possibly be made. the line should have gone through the middle of Queensland had to compete in the old country Rosewoocl Scrub. He (:\fr. O'Sullivan) had in with America for immigrants, and it was neces­ hi; possession a petition signed by 210 people sary to hold out special inducements to compen­ agreeing with the route proposed by the•"i\Iinister sate for the increased distance and difficulties of for \Vorks. He did not care to bring the petition colonisation ; and the more railways they con­ before the House, seeing that what was asked structed the more immigration agencies they for was to be carried out, but he would be glad established ; and railways of the kind proposed to show the hon. member for Rosewood the were justified in every possible sense. He would petition. He (Mr. O'Sullivan) should support like to see railways running into all the agricn~­ this motion. tnral districts in the colony, and hoppd that this Mr. KATES said that it was not his intention was only the beginning of n, system of cheap to oppose the motion approving of the plans, railways which would gradually take the place of ·sections, and book of reference of this line. The the main roads in the different agricultural dis­ hon. member for ::\Iitchell suggested that the tricts of the colony. Government should recover the Canning Downs Mr. GRIFFITH said he wished to say a word Estate, and he (Mr. Kates) contended that the about the cost of branch lines. The Minister for projected line from Vll arwick to Killarney would \Vorks had referred to the course proposed to be never pay until the Canning Downs }<~state was adopted when he (11r. Griffith) was Minister for repurchased. It was quite :1musiug to hear the \Vorks, with respect to the weight of rails. On hon. the Minister for Works say that there were the Bundaberg line they adopted a 30-lb. rail, thousands of acres of good agricultural land and it was intended also to adopt it on the requiring settlement ; for, as a matter of fact, N ortheru line, except on the heavier parts of the there was not a piece to be obtained, unless the road. That decision was arrived at after a very ::\Iinister meant the ridges and scrub land. There full report from the Chief Engineer, which report were no Crown lauds available. was now in the \Vorks Office, and could easily be referred to. That weight of rail appeared The MINISTER :B'OR LA~DS ·, \Vhat arc you doing with your 14,000 acres? sufficient to the then Government. With respect to the Northern line, he was not sorry to see ::\Ir. KATES said that did not belong to the that their decision had been reversed, and that Crown ; it belonged to him. The hou. member 40-lh. rails had been adopted instead, because for Stanley (Mr. O'Sullivttn) had suggested that that line would eventually be united with the the owners of the land should be taxed in other trunk lines of the colony. The question of accorclance with the value of their estates. weig·ht of rail was only a very small incident \Vould the hon. member propose to do violence in the cost of n, line. The weight of rail, as to these people? They were willing to part pointed out by the Chief Engineer on that with their property at a reasonable figure. He occasion, ought to correspond with the rest of 420 TVar'wiek to [ASSEMBLY.] Killar'ney Railway. the line. If they intended to have a first-rate them. 'l'he rail alone on the Sydney tramway, line, the rails ought to be first-mte also. If a without any other expense, cost a great· t!~al cheaper line was intended, with lighter rolling­ more than 'the most expensive of our branelt stock, a lower rate of speed, less earthworks, and lines ; and on the Edinburgh tramway, the rnil lighter bridges, the r-ails should corre~pond. alone, without the necessary sleepers, had cost They understood that by adopting a lighter rail as much as some of our railways. The object of they were defining the kind of line they were the Government had been to get their lines con­ going to make. It was said that the line now pro­ structed as cheaply as possible, and the hon. posed would cost nearly £4,000 a mile. He (Mr. gentleman seemed to forget that the cost of Griffith) believed that a railway could be made branch lines and lines in the \Vest could not there for £2,000 a mile, and if that could be done it be properly compared. The reason why branch would be far more to the interest of the country. lines cost more than trunk lines per mile, wns A 20-lb. rail would be quite sufficient. A 30-lb. that they went througp much more difficult rail appeared much smaller than a 40-lb. rail­ country. If hon. members would look at the much smaller in proportion than one would engineering on the X orthern line and on a imagine, considering the difference in weight. greater portion of the Southern line, they would He was satisfied that people would be contented see that for themselves. The greatest economy with branch lines more like steam tramways. had been practised ; there was the lowest amount There was not much heavy traffic in agricul­ of earthwork taken out ; the lines \vere of the tural districts, and steam tramways could be narrowest gauge ; the bridges were of the made for half the cost proposed by the Mini8- cheapest kind, as also was the material. It ter for \Vorks-tramway8 like t.hose running would be utterly impossible to economise by in Sydney, and J;') name stood better in \V arwick than his (Mr. Perkins'). purpose of avoiding the Canning Downs ]<~state. He could have taken the line to Killarney in The SPEAKEH : The hon. member is going about twelve or thirteen miles by going through beyond an explanation, and is the~efore out of Canning Downs, but he did not see the justice of order, having spoken. making a line to benefit one man alone; therefore Mr. GAHRICK said he hardly thought the he proposed to take the line through lands belong­ tactics used by the hon. Minister for Works and ing to independent farmers. \Vhen he spoke about the hon. Minister for Lands with regard to th\) 422 Wa1•wick, Etc., Railway. [ASSEM13I,Y.] Questions.

Rpecch of the hon. member for Darling Downs proposal of the Government. If that were done were very fair. They were working a little here, it would save a great deal of Iilisconception. electioneering dodge upon the country, and He would suggest to the members of the Gov­ everyone should know what they were about. ermnent and the leader of the Opposition that They were not depreciating the hon. member for some such plan as he had suggested should be Darling Downs, as the speeches of either of these adopted, in order that members who did not know hon. gentlemen would not be misunderstood one the locality would be able to see at a glance where bit in the world on the Darling Downs. He a line was going, and would thus emtble them to (Mr. Garrick) was sure it was quite clear to hon. know what they were talking about. members that the hon. member (Mr. Kates) had Motion for the adjournment of the debate, not objected to this line. He simply differed by leave, withdrawn. from the Minister for 'Vorks U]Jon some pfl.rticu­ Original question put and passed. lars given by him. There was not the slightest opposition to this line noticefl.ble in the speech o£ FIRE BRIGADES BILL. the hon. member, and it was quite useless for the two Ministers mentioned to make the statements The House having, in Committee, affirmed the they had made. desirability of introducing, in accordance with the message of his Excellency the Governor of The MINISTER FOR WORKS: He said it date the 23rd August, a Bill for the better pro­ should be withdrawn. vision for the Extinction of :Fires in municipali­ Mr. KATES rose to say a word in expla­ ties and their suburbs in the Colony of Queens­ nation. land, the report of the Committee was adMelbourne when some public work was suggested, and that wn,s that the project was illustrated on a map on a large scale, which was stuck up upon the wall of the House, so that any member could aee at a glance the general direction of the