1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 845

The yeas and nays were ordered ; and being taken, resulted-yeas and issue of certificates therefor; House bill No. 1519, to authorize the 30, nays 24 ; as follows : making of ingots of fine gold and ingots of fine silver of the value of YEAS-30. $100 each for exportation, manufactures, and other purposes ; and Allison, Butler, Hill of Georgia, Vance, House bill No.1911, to authorize the coinage of silver dollars and frac­ Anthony, Call, Ingalls, Voorhees, tions thereof of full standard value upon the metric system. I am Bailey, Cameron of Pa., Jones of Florida, Whyte, Beck, Cameron of Wis., Kirkwood, Williams, instructed to move that these several bills be referred to the Commit­ Bl:tine, · Conklin , McMillan, Windom, tee of the Whole on the state of the Union, and that the report a-0- Blair Davis o1'w. Va., Pendleton, Withers. companying the samo be printed, and that 10,000 extra copies of the Brue~ Edmunds, Platt, Feport be printed for the use of the House. Burnside, Gordon, Pryor, The SPEAKER. The proposition for printing extra copies of the NAYS-24. report will under the law be referred to the Committee on Printing. Coke, Harris, Maxey, Rollins, Mr. STEPHENS. I desire to state to the House that this is a very Dawes, Hereford, Morgan, Saulsbury, full report upon the metric system. Eaton, Hoar, Morrill, Saunders, Ferry, Jonas, Plumb, Slater, Mr. ATKINS. Why is there any necessity for the printing of any Garland, Kernan, Randolph, Walker, extraordinary number of this report, more than usual f . Groome, Logan, Ransom, Wallace. The SPEAKER.. The proposition to print will not now be acted ABSENT-22. upon, but under the rule will go to the Committee on Printing. Baldwin, Farley, Jones of Nevada, Sharon, Mr. STEPHENS. There is an extraordi.nary demand for the reporl. Bayard, Grover, Kellogg, Teller, The bills were accordingly referred to the Committee of the Whole Booth, · Hamlin, Lamar, Thurman, on the state of the Union, and the accompanying report ordered to Carpenter, Hampton, McDonald, Vest. be printed. Cockrell, Hill of Colorado; McPherson, Davis of Illinois, Johnston, Paddock, UNITED STATES STANDARD WEIGHTS AND MEASURES. So the motion was agreed to. Mr. STEPHENS. I am also instructed by the Committee on Coin­ BILLS INTRODUCED. . age, Weights, and Measures to report back with a favorable recom­ Mr. ROLLINS asked, and by unanimous consent obtained, leave to mendation a joint ri$olution which is very short and I think will meet introduce a bill (S. No.1292) to provide for the removal of the terms with no objection. · of the United States circuit and district courts now held at Exeter, Mr. CLYMER. I will reserve all points of order until the joint for and within the district of New Hampshire, to the city of Concord; resolution is read. which was read twice by its title, and referred to the Committee on The joint resolution (H. R. No.186) authorizing the Secretary of the the Judiciary. Treasury to furnish States, for the use of agricultural colleges, one Mr. RANSOM asked, and by unaniinous consent obtained, leave to set of standard weights and measures was read, as follows : introduce a bill (S. No. 1293) to provide for the erection of a public Resolved, &c., That the Secretary of the '.I.'rea.sury be, and he is hereby, directed building at Asheville, North Carolina; which wa-s read twice by its to cause a. complete set of all the weights and measures adopted as standards to be title, and referred to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. delivered to the Governor of each State in the Union for the use of any agricult­ ural college in the States respectively which is maintained in part by State appro­ Mr. BLAINE asked, and by unanimous consent obtained, leave to priations. introduce a bill (S. No. 1294) to enable the President to promote J. S. Mr. STEPHENS. I suppose there can be no objection to that joint Payne, a captain in the United States Army; which was read twice resolution. From information which I have obtained since the com­ by its title, and referred to the Committee on Military Affairs. mittee authorized me to report this joint resolution, I desire to move Mr. VOORHEES asked, and by unanimous consent obtained, leave to amend it by adding" and also one set of the same for the use of to introduce a bill (S. No. 1295) granting a pension to Lewis J. Blair; the Smithsonian Institution." which was read twice by its title, and referred to the Committee on Mr. BLOUNT. I hope my colleague [Mr. STEPHENS] will allow us Pensions. to have the regular order. PAPERS WITHDRAWN AND REFERRED. Mr. STEPHENS. What objection have you to this joint resolu­ On motion of Mr. WALLACE, it was tion f Ordered, That the petition and papers of Hannah S. Mackey, guardian of Mar· Mr. BLOUNT. I have no objection to the joint resolution, but I garet J. Yourison, be taken from the files of the Senate and referred to the Com­ desire that we shall have the regular order until we can get through mittee on Pensions. with the rules. · HALIFAX FISHERIES COMMISSION. Mr. PRICE. It will not take more than a moment to pass this. Mr. BLAINE submitted the following resolution; which was con­ Mr. BLOUNT. I know that; but there will be a dozen or more sidered by unanimous consent, and agreed to : applications of the same kind. I hope my colleague will withdraw Resolved, That the President be respectfully requested, if in his judgment not the measure. incompatible with the public int~rest, to communicate to the Senate any informa­ tion in possession of the Government t

WYA..i.~OTTE INDIANS. promissory notes. If we enact the bill as it stands now, with that Mr. BAKER, by unanimpus consent, introduced a bill (H. R. No. provision in it, we shall have returned to the law as it was before 4431) making appropriations to indemnify the Wyandotte tribe of 18751 as it has been from 1789 down to 1875, and I agree that ought Indians; which was read a :first and second time, referred to the Com­ to be done. If we in ninety years of experience, under' that legisla­ mittee on Appropriations, and ordered to be printed. · tion, found no practical difficulty, certainly I cannot see that in the experience of the last five years we have had justification for that DllfiGRATIO~ OF CHDIBSE. • departure from the old way. Mr. WILLIS, from the Committee on Education and Labor, reported I may as well say here that as this bill does not touch in general back, without amendment, a resolution; which was read, a-s follows: terms the powers given to the circuit courts in regard to patents, Whereas, on the 25th day of February, 1878, a resolution was unanimously re­ copyrights, civil rights, elective franchise, or criminal prosecutions, ported to the House of Representatives requesting the President of the United States to open correspondence immediately with the governments of China and I dismiss those features without comment, having no desire to take Great Britain, with a view of securing a change or :i.bro~tion of all stipulations up the time of the House unnecessarily. But there a.re two other in existing treaties which permit the unlimiteff immigration of the Chinese to the features in the bill to which I cannot give my approval, for which I United St.ates: Therefore, cannot vote. I shall speak of them in order. In the first place the Be it resolved, That the President be requested, if not incompatible with the :public interests, to inform this House what steps have been taken in the direction clause raising the limit of jurisdiction from $500 to $2,000. That baa mdica.ted by said resolution, and also to communicate any other information upon not been commented on at length. The proposition is to change the this subject as he may deem proper. law as it has been from 1789 to the present time. To this very day Mr. WILLIS. This resolution is reported from the committee unan­ and hour the limit is $500. Up to this time, through all the excite­ imously. ments consequent upon the war, upon the conflict of interests in­ The resolution was adopted. volved in the varied industries and bnsines8 of this country, we have Mr. WILLIS moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolution gone on under that rule, and we have come out of the darkness into was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid the light of prosperity and success, and are on the onward march. on the table. There is no demand, then, that we should go up from $500 to $2,000. The latter motio was agreed to. Gentlemen will understand that it will not affect the number of ADMISSION TO THE FLOOR. causes which will come into the Supreme Court of the United States, becaus~ that right is limited by another statute which fixes the The SPEAKER. The Chair, at the request of the gentleman from amount at $5,000. So with regard to the flow of 1ousiness from the Maine, [Mr. LADD,] asks consent that Hon. Edmund Wilson, of the circuit court into the Supreme Court, it is utterly immaterial whether Maine Legislature, be allowed the privilege of the floor during his the amount fixed in the circuit court shall be $500 or $2,000, because stay in the city. neither one of itself gives the right of transfer to the Supreme Court. Mr. PAGE. Which legislature T [Laughter.] There can be no discussion about that. The SPEAKER. The Chair is not informed on that subject. And, on this question, what is the demal'.la we should raise the limit There being no objection, the request was granted. from 500 to 2,000 T What reason has been given for it in this de­ The SPEAKER. The Chair, on behalf of the gentleman from bate T Said the gentleman from Texas [Mr. CULBERSON] who opened Maryland, [Mr. TALBOTT,] asks the same privilege for Colonel D. K. this debate, in speaking of the clause in regard to promissory notes: Mcintire, State's attorney of Maryland. The enlargement of the jurisdiction of those courts by the exception contained There being no objection, the request was granted. in the act of 1875 has operated to increase largely the business of the circuit and P.El\:IOV AL OF CAUSES FROM STATE COURTS. Supreme Courts of the United States, and no subject of litigation has contributed more to swell and overload the dockets of the courts thari the jurisdiction over Mr. BLOUNT. I call for the regular order. neitotiable instruments held by assignees. This supply of business should be out The SPEAKER. The regular order being demanded, the morning off and the holders of such evidences of debt remitted to the courts of the States, hour begins at twenty-seven minutes after twelve o'clock. The un­ which now have concurrent jurisdiction. finished business is the bill (H. R. No. 4219) to amend sections 1, 2, And now mark these· words, Mr. Speaker: 3, and 10 of an act to determine the jurisdiction of circuit courts of I do not think, Mr. Speaker, that if Congress had been devising a method by which to block up business in the circuit courts, to increase the burdens and ex­ the United States and regulating the removal of causes fr-0m State penses of litigation and at the same time prel'are an easy mode by which the gravest courts, and for other purposes, approved March 3, 1875. The gentle­ frauds could oe practiced upon the jurisdiction of the courts, it could have a.dopted man from Massachusetts [Mr. ROBINSON] is entitled to the floor. a more successful one. Mr. PAGE. Mr. Speaker, is it proper at this time to raise the ques­ And I agree with him. And what is the logical conclusion of that T tion of consideration on this bill 4? It is this plainly, that when you have taken away the right to go The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Massachusetts has been rec­ into the circuit court of the .United States as the assignee of a chose ognized and is on the floor. If he yields for the purpose, the question in action, except foreign bills of exchange, you have then swept down might be raised. · that great mass of causes which have been accumulating in the cir­ Mr. PAGE. My object was to have the House take up at once the cuit court. You have removed the great bulk, you have gone ba-0k consideration of the rules. to the condition of things in 1875. Gentlemen should not lose sight The ~PEAKER. That business is out of the morning hour. of this condition of things. Mr. PAGE. Cannot that question be raised f · These causes have been very numerous, they ha"Ve been burdensome The SPEAKER. The rules are in Committee of the Whole. The to the country, and made so by the litigation in the United States morning hour is now begun ; and as the business of the morning courts, and I only dwell longer to say I heartily agree in the provision hour has been entered upon, and a gentleman is on the floor upon to strike that out of the law of 1875. And I say that when we have the pending bill, it is too late to raise the question unless the gentle­ struck that out we have the relief that it ia said we ought to have man yields. by striking it out. Strike .it out, says the ~entleman, because that Mr. ROBINSON. I do not yield, because I am not so authorized provision has burdened the courts. I say strike it out and the burden by the committee that I represent. drops from the courts. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Massachusetts will proceed. ;Right here I will refer to the criticism made by the gentleman from Mr. ROBINSON. Mr. Speaker, I hesitate somewhat to ask the atten­ Indiana [Mr. BAKER] a few days ago. I do not see him now in his tion of the House to-day to remarks upon this bill because it has been seat. I do not wish to misrepresent him. discussed by so many gentlemen that possibly the whole ground has A MEMBER. He is present. been covered and all the objections to it have been stated or suggested Mr. ROBINSON. I wish to say something in regard to his proposed by the gentlemen who have already addressed the Honse. I know amendment that the limit should be in some way more sharply de­ that it is very difficult to secure the attention of this Honse when a fined. I have no objection that the language should be made so clear debate has run for some days in the morning hour; but, Mr. Speaker, that no one can err. But while he states that he has known cases in it becomes my duty to say some thiDgs different from the views uttered which actions have been brought in the circuit court of the United by gentlemen who have preceded me; and I could not, in justice to States upon notes of the value of $20 I must take issue with him. I myself, be silent under such circumstances. cannot of course contradict his statement or question what he states I agree, I say, at the outset, with many of the features of the pro­ to this House, but under the provisions of the law I fail to see how posed bill. I think it wise to turn back somewhat toward the legis­ it can be accomplished. lation of 1789, founded on the constitutional provisions. I agree Mr. BAKER rose. with many gentlemen there are provisions in the act of 1875 which Mr. ROBJNSON. The gentleman will later have timetoexplainit. are not called for at the present time; and I trust the future is far Mr. BAKER rose. distant when the condition of the country will require their enforce­ Mr. ROBINSON. Not in my time. I will not be unfair with you. ment Mr. BAKER. I trust I shall have some time to make some obser- I shall not touch much at length on points which have been elab­ vations on that subject. · orated, and points in which I agree. I say at once that·the right of Mr. ROBINSON. If there is any abuse of this provision, if it be removal of causes ought to be restricted as it is in this bill, mainly, found that a party has removed a cause to the circuit court when he to the defendant. I say that the plaintiff should not have, under has no right to have it there, the gentleman and all other gentlemen ordinary circumstances, a right to elect his forum in a State, and know that the statute provides that the circuit court shall remand afterward when he finds defeat is hanging over him, at the last mo­ that cause. ment; to change his forum and take the United States court instead. Mr. BAKER. I said nothing about removal. I was talking about It is wise to strike out that privilege for the plaintiff. · · the institution of the suit originally in the Federal courts under the Again, I do not quite agree with the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. claim of 500 damages where the real cause of action as it finally BARBER] who spoke yesterday in objection to the clause relating to turned out amounted to only twenty or twenty-five dollars.

• 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 847

Mr. ROBINSON. The gentleman will find provisions to meet those reason founded upon the Constitution. The Constitution says that difficulties in the statutes-provisions giving the court power to im­ the judicial power of the United States shall be vested in the Supreme pose costs; yes, double costs, and even terms in a-0.dition to that upon Court and in such other inferior courts as Congress may establish. a party who brings his case wrongfully in the circuit court of t he The Constitution further says that the judicial power shall extend to United States. controversies between citizens of different States. That is the point Now, we have considered this one point thus far, how the business here. When the founders of that Constitution, or many of them, met of the court will be diminished by the removal of this one provision in the Congress of the United States, and when they gave us the act from the act. Is there a demand we shall go further Y Is there a de­ of 1789, for some reason, we know not why, they said it might be well mand that we shall have no United States courts that shall adjudi­ to fix the limit at $500. There is nothing that I can find in the debates cate upon the rights of parties, citizens of different States T I think of the House of Representatives of that period that gives the reason; not. Events are so fresh and so powerful in their instruction that it and there is nothing to be found in any report of the debates of the will not be found in this House that it has a standing here, that we Senate, because the debates of the Senate were then had with closed are to dismiss the national power-dismiss the national courts and doors and in secrecy. , ignore their us~falness. We want to maintain t.hem. We are here Mr. HAMMOND, of Georgia. Would not your argument destroy all to-day with a Union more strongly cemented tha.n ever before, and limit as to amount 'I destined to be perpetual. That Union is not by the agreement of the Mr. ROBINSON. No, sir. My argument is not that we should go States, but by the decree of the people of this great country, renewed, from 500 down to $1, and the Honse of Representatives has misunder­ ratified, sanctified in the blood of the war. That is accomplished and stood me if they thought I said so. What I say is this, that it is clearly with the United States court everywhere in this land I shall look within the constitutional power of Congress to provide that suits from in vain to find any gentleman rise and say he would banish them or 1 up between citizens of different States shall have cognizance in the shear them of their power. Nay, the lesson of the legislation in the Federal courts; and nobody will dispute that. From 1789 for ninety last Congress and in this teaches us volumes as to the opinion of the years the practice and experience of the country seemed to demon­ people and the legislators here assembled. Why, in the Forty-fifth strate the wisdom of the fathers in the legislation of 1789. I do not Congtess ;we passed bills securing joint action, giving additional fa­ ask to go to the legitimate conclusion of distributing the power to the cilities in the United States courts, establishing new courts, making classes that have credits or demands of only a dollar. There is no new districts, and divisions of districts-in how many States 7 Why, stopping-place except in the discretion of Congress. This Congress in Colorado, the District of Columbia, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Mich- has the discretion. I am not arguing the contrary, and gent.lemen . igan, Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, Ohio, and West Virginia. have not misunderstood me, I know. It is for us to say whether we That in the Forty-fifth Congress, What is the record in the Forty­ think it wise and for the interest of the people that we should raise sixth' Gentlemen have only to consult the files of the House. Go this limit from $500 to $2,UOO. That is what I am undertaking to to the Committee on the Judiciary and you willfind there bills in the meet. I say it is not wise; and if what I have said goes to sustain same direction for Ohio, Indiana, Louisiana, Iowa, Mississippi, Ten­ my assertion, I pass on, and leave it to other gentlemen to combat it. nessee, Illinois, South Carolina, Texas, Kentucky, North Carolina, It is not that it is within the power of Congress merely, but that it is Missouri, New York, and Kansas. Does that legislation show that the within its reasonable discretion as well, and I say no fact justifies the people tire of the pressure of the national power and the authority of exerctise of the discretion to give an enlarged limit. the Federal courts Y Wb,ile I would not divulge the secrets of the Mr. WEAVER. Will the gentleman permit me to ask him a ques- consultation of the committee-room, yet I feel that I may say to this tion Y · · House that in the discussions and testimony before us in regard to Mr. ROBINSON. I do not like to yield, because my time is limited the establishment of a circuit court in a certain State in this Union and I have a good deal more to say. I prefer that gentlemen should it appeared that the people wanted the United States .court there not take up my time. because they had more confidence in it than they had in their State Mr. WEAVER. I yielded to the gentleman when I had the :floor, courts_,. And I say further, so that the credit may go where it is due, but I will not insist upon it. that th.is was in one of the Southern States of this Union. Mr. ROBINSON. The gentleman was kind enough to yield to me, I like that evidence. That is very gratifying. With this legisla.­ and I will now give one good turn for another, if his question is a. tion accomplished and proposed and with that feeling pre"n.iling I short one. · receive any such expression ,a-s that with cordiality.. Let us have then Mr. WEAVER. Does not the gentleman see that at the time of the this recognition of the United States power, and let us see to it that organization of the Government and the passage of the judiciary a.ct we do not here strive to strip it of its authority. of 1789, taking into consideration the population of the counp-y and I need not enlarge, :perhaps, upon the value and the interest of the the relative amount of business, $500 was a proper limit and brought cases that range from $500 up to $2,000 as that was so well put by the a limited number of suits into the courts, and that the rapid increase gentleman from Illinois [Mr. BARBER] yesterday. Are we making a of population and increase of business since that time would overload court bill that will only avail to persons who are worth $2,000 T That the courts if the $500 limit was retained Y is this bill. The people shall open the national courts; they shall Mr. ROBINSON. That has been touched upon by the gentleman pay for jurors and marshals and clerks and judges; they shall build from Michigan, [Mr. WILLITS.] While porhaps it may be very easy court-houses here and there all over the broad land; you shall tax for the gentleman to say that 2,000 now does not represent more them for that burden; but this Congress undertakes to say that no than $500 represented some years ago-- man shall have the benefits of the judiciary of the United States-I Mr. WEAVER. I do not say that. speak in general terms-unless he has a cause of action that in value Mr. ROBINSON. In a certain sense that may be true., But I tell represents $2,000. From 1789 for ninety years down we have been you that the man who has to-day but a thousand dollars, and wants satisfied to let the people go in n.nd out our naiional courts of justice his rights inquired into and determined, ca.res more about the $1,000 for the sum of $500. What wrong came to the people of this country of his own than for the $1,000 that might have been in his grand­ from thatf . father's pocket. We must recollect that we are legislating for the Apply what I say now more particularly to natural persons, to in­ people of to-day. Is it right and discreet that we should take away dividuals, and I think the force of the argument will be at once con­ from the people of this country the privilege of going into the United ceded. The other branch of tiie question I shall touch upon later. States courts for the determination of suits involving sums between Take the loans of money that are made all over this country, and $500 and 2,000 Y they are not alone from the East n.nd the Middle States; they are Mr. WEAVER. It.is a necessity. ma-0.e everywhere; transactions are growing up and multiplying every Mr. ROBINSON. I deny that it is a necessity, because when we day that affect the entire community of the United States. Wrong, have stricken out the provision in regard to promissory notes, the supremely wrong, is that man's view who thinks by this legislation great bulk of causes will go out of the courts, as I have already ar­ he will only affect the State of Massachusetts, the State of Connecti­ gued. Again, w~ are multiplying United States courts and shall con­ cut, the State of New York, and other of the old States of the East. tinue to do so as this country grows and prospers. Why, you gentlemen of the South will have transactions from $500 In regard to section 640 of the Revised Statutes, containing the to $2,000, many of them, which you wish to have passed upon in the provision in regard to corporations created by national laws, I will Federal courts of this country. You will be debarred whai(everyour not dwell upon that at length, except to say that I can see no reason cause of action. You gentlemen of the West, as I believe, in the vain why a corporation created by authority of the United States should dream to get some relief from what I think is a false delusion, are stand upon any better footing in this respect than any other corpora.- ready to throw down the benefits that you have under the provisions tion. . of the Constitution and the laws made in execution of the Constitu­ If a question arises under the Constitution or the laws of the United tion, and to cast the benefits of your trade and your commerce and States, then that question should be interpreted and determined by your credit into ·oblivion, never to be regained. the Supreme Court of the United States; and there are now many There are, then, great questious in\rolved in this bill. And I under­ provisions of law for that purpose. I think that the amendment of take to say, what is the experience of everyman, that the individual the gentleman from Texas [Mr. CULBERSON] is substantially in the who has only somewhere from $500 to $2,000 is a man who demands right direction ; perhaps it is exactly so in terms. and should receive the protection of the United States court-a quite If the limit is kept at $500, a.s applied to all parties litigant, I am as much as he who controls millions. . very clear that section 640 of the Revised Statutes should be repealed_, Mr. HAMMOND, of Georgia. Why limit it to $500 'I and I hope theHouse will take that position. Ifit is said that it will Mr. ROBINSON. The gentleman asks me why I limit it to $.500. be exceedingly troublesome to try in the United States courts I he suits I will reply by saying to him, why did our fathers limit it to $500 Y of national corporations involving small amounts, such as the destruc­ And I suppose that is the question he wants to a-s-k me. There is no tion of a few rods of fence or the loss or damage of some article of 848 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 12, property, then take away those cases and place those corporations on of Congress to take that right away from them f That is the ques­ an equality with other suitors. tion for our consideration. Can Congress deprive corporations of a Right }lere it may be well for me to say that the criticism upon the right guaranteed to them by the Constitution as asserted and vindi­ action of the courts under the provision that allows an appeal to the cated by the Supreme Court i Supreme Court when a question arises under the Constitution or the I wish to refer the House to an early case in 1 Wheaton, the case laws of the United States is not quite sound. Gentlemen will find of Martin vs. Hunter, in which the court uses the following language: by referring to 6 Otto. in the case cited yesterday by the gentleman Let this article be carefully weighed and considered. The language of this from Missouri, [Mr. PHILIPS,] that the court says that only those q ues­ article throughout is manifestly designed to be mandatory upon the Legislature. tions can go to the Supreme Court which require the determination Its obligatory force is so imperative that Congress could not, without a violation of its duty have refused to carry it into operation. "The judicial power of th& and construction of some provision of the Constitution of the United United staL; shall be vested" (not may be vested) "in one Supreme Court and in States or some law of the United States in order to arrive at a correct !mch inferior courts as Congress may from time to time ordain and establish." decision of the case. These corporations are not permitted to go there Could Congress have lawfully refused to create a Supreme Court, or vest in it con­ merely because they have been incorporated by authority of the stituti,!lnal jurisdi*ction 7 United States. The judicial power must therefore be vested in some court by Congress; and to I leave ·that branch of the subject, the question of the money limit, suppose that it was not an obligation binding on them, but might, at their pleasure, by asking gentlemen who hear me to consider for a moment that in be omitted or declined, is to suppose that, under the sanction of the Constitution, this country the people are proportionately poor. Go into any State they might defeat the Constitution itself. A con.Struction which would lead to such a result cannot be sound. and you will find that the great mass of the people are utterly des­ * * * titute of property. They pay a tax, if at all, upon the poll, and not If, then, it is the duty of Con~ss to vest the judicial power of the United States, upon property. If any of these persons shall accumulate the sum it is a duty to vest the whole Judicial power. The language if imperative as to one part is imperative as to all. If it were otherwise, this anomaly would exist, of $1,000 by dint of labor and saving, his right to that everywhere · that Congress might successively refuse to vest the jurisdiction in any one class of throughout this land should be secure. caees enumerated in the Constitution and thereby defeat the_jurisdiction as to all; I come now to the other provision of the bill, and in order that we for the Constitution has not singled out any class on which Congress are bound to may have it before the House I ask the Clerk to read that portion of act in preference to others. the bill referring to corporations contained in the last clause of sec­ Mr. TUCKER. From what does the gentleman read f tion 3. Mr. ROBINSON. From 1 Wheaton. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. TUCKER. Whose opinion f SEC. 3. That section 3 of said act be, and the same is hereby, amended so as to Mr. ROBINSON. The opinion of Judge Story; and if the gentle­ read as follows : man wants other authority to the same effect he will :find in the . opinion of Chief-Justice M:trshall, in Cohens vs. Virginia, 6 Wheaton, "That the circuit courts of the United States shall not take original cognizance of any suit of a civil nature, either at common law or in equity, oetween a corpo­ which I will not take time to read, a reiteration of the same doctrine. ration created or organized by or under the laws of any State and a citizen of any I say, then, that those constitutional provisions give to the citizens State in which such corporation at the time the cause of action accrued may have of the different States their rights in the Federal courts. I say again been carrying on any business authorized by the law creating it, except in like it is not within the constitutional power of Congress to make dis­ cases in which said courts are authorized by this act to take original cognizance of suits between citizens of the same State. Nor shall any- such suit between such criminations as to citizens in this matter. It has been taken as set­ a corporation and a citizen or citizens of a State in which it may be doing busi­ tled that the corporations of the States for purposes of jurisdiction ness, be removed to any circuit court of the United States, except in like cases in are citizens of the States in which they are created. If citizens, they which such removal is authorized by the foregoing provision in suits between have the rights of all other citizens; and Congress is bound to secure citizens of the same States." those rights by legislation. Mr. ROBINSON. I propose now to pass to the consideration of that Can you discriminate f Why, in the famous Dred Scott decision, the feature of the bill which has just been read, and which is sometimes Supreme Court did discriminate, and said that a negro was not a cit­ called the corporation clause of the bill. At the outset I must say izen within the meaning of the Constitution, nor entitled to me in that I cannot agree with some gentlemen who have stated that that the circuit court of the United States f The nation paused and held is the great object to be accomplished. I cannot give that statement its breath, and never recovered itself until after the bloody strife of my assent and approval. Let us examine this question. In passing the war, when was put into the Constitution that guarantee that no I want to say that the provision there does not save rights as to re­ such doctrine should ever be repeated in ~his country; and to-day it moval in pending suits or original a-0tions. The gentleman in charge is impossible for any Supre:rne Court to make that discrimination of the bill will, I presume, give proper consideration to this sugges- again. tion. · That, I believe, is the only discrimination against the citizen that Again, it was not intended by the gentleman who offered this, as I was ever attempted. It took us years to correct it ; it cost blood and understand, that corporations should be restricted as to suits for the treasure. That is well settled. I am discussing simply the question enforcement of their rights under the patent or copyright laws. There of jurisdiction, not any other provision of the Constitution. can be no question that if this clause were adopted no corporation Discriminate! Can this Congress, can you here 'l I think no one could go into the Federal court to enforce its rights under the patent will claim it. Can you say here that the corporations, for instance, or copyright laws, because this says " except as authorized by the of the State of New York, created there and doing business there, provisions of this act," that is the act of 1875, which we are amend­ shall not be citizens of New York, but shall be citizens of the various ing. Now the authority to go into the United States courts to en­ States wherever they may go and transact business f No, indeed. force the patent and copyright laws is not found in the act of 1875, That is not within the power of this Congress. Can you say that I, but in the Revised Statutes, section 629, clause 9. a citizen of Massachusetts, shall not be a citizen of Massachusetts Mr. NEW. That jurisdiction is exclusively in the circuit courts. when I want to come to the United States court, but shall be a citi­ Mr. ROBINSON. Yes, sir; and we should not disturb it and for the zen of Louisiana, or it may be of Ohio, or it may be of Illinois Y Cer­ reason that not only in the judgment of Congress heretofore but in tainly not. Can you say by your legislation that the State of Massa­ the decisions of the Supreme Court there should prevail over this chusetts, for instance, shall have no rights in the circuit court, that country one uniform line of decision and adjudication upon questions the citizens of Massachusetts shall have no rights in the circuit court f of this kind. I need not argue the matter. There are many cases in Why, not at all. which corporations will become interested in patents and copyrights, "Citizens," say the constitutions of the different States, and that, I and have rights under them. am happy to say, includes the people of the State of Massachusetts. Corporations have been held by the United States courts to be cit­ Then you will not attempt that. And so this bill does not limit and izens of the States in which they are created. I need not read the say that directly, but seeks to gain by indirection what it has not the decisions, because members of the House are familiar with this as a courage and the power to do mrectly. That is what it tries to do. settled principle. In other words, to state it the other way, the court If gentlemen believe it is in the power of Congress to legislate citi­ says that when a corporation comes into court the court will consider zenship out of the different individuals, whether natural or artificial, that cause aa for or against the stockholders of that corporation, and that is recognized under the Constitution, let them meet that ques­ for the purposes of jurisdiction they shall be conclusively presumed tion fairly. to be residents of the State in which the corporation was created. If Congress can exclude the citizens of a locality, or the citizens That is the position of the court. It haB been the adjudication of the of one color, or the citizens of one occupation, or the citizens of cer­ court from the earliest cases. I need not cite them. The same rule tain classes of wealth or industry, surely it can exclude :my other will apply to alien corporations ; that is, corporations created in for­ citizens. If you can, in this bill and under our Constitution, declare eign countries-not only in foreign states, as we use the phra.se. that the citizens, or any portion of them, in this country, because The Constitution, in article 3, extends the judicial power to citizens they a.ct in their corporate capacity, shall lose their rights in the of different States. Therefore, in its language and by the adjudica­ Federal courts, it is but the next step to legislate that. the man who tion of the courts it extends its power to corporations, for they are is engaged in rolling iron, or in the manufacture of cotton or of citizens of the different States. Have they that right under the Con­ woolen goods, or is a banker or "bloated bondholder," shall not have stitution 7 It has been asserted, and is upheld by the Supreme Court, any rights in the Federal courts. There is no stop between them. and of course it cannot be at the present time called in question. "Well, but this bill," it will be said, "does not declare that theyshall If, then, the citizens of different States have this right in the United not be citizens." And it may be said that this Congress certainly has States courts-and when I say citizens, I use the term in view of the the power to decline to exercise the whole of its jurisdiction; that adjudications of the Supreme Court and include corporations-if the the Supreme Court has recognized that as withln the discretion and corporations of this country, then, have the same right as natural per­ power of Congress. So the court has, but I ask you to observe that. sons to go into the courts of the United States, is it within the power the court has never given any countenance, except in the case I have I .

1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 849

referred to, that upon this matter of jurisdiction there may be any country; take them as they come to this capital; take, for instance, discrimination as to citizens. There may be a discrimination as to the Philadelphia, Wilmirwton and Baltimore Railroad. Pennsyl­ subject-matter, but not as to citizens. vania, Delaware, and Maryiand all joined to give consolidation, force, The gentleman from Indiana [Mr. NEW] has cited Sheldon vs. Sill, and vigor to that corporation; and the State of Pennsylvania, by it.a .S Howard, 441, and other cases, in justification, as he seems to be­ supreme court, said in a case of that character that when the Legis­ lieve, for the provision now under discussion. But all those cases latures of the different States had authorized a consolidation of that • are in point only to sustain the authority of Congress to exercise its kind, it was not to be taken as an act of one State with the corpora­ discretion upon the subject-matter or amount in controversy, not to tion alone, but was in the nature of .a compact; and that the differ­ discriminate against any citizen. The distinction is very broad, and ent States were bound to maintain that compact, not only with re­ in recognition of it my argument is made. The opinions of courts spect to the corporation but with respect to each other. You rejoice, have no binding force whatever, except upon the precise points in some of yon, in the great line that will take you to Chicago, if that issue. . will be effected by consolidation. The State of Iowa has but a single Corporations are citizens for all purposes under the Constitution home corporation that crosses or runs within its border, I understand. ancl laws of the United States relating to the Federal courts, and as And how came the great ones there 'f By the act of the Legislature such have equal rights. It is not material in this consideration that of Iowa, by its consolidation statute, which said to the corporations they are declared not to be citizens under other clauses of the Consti­ approaching its borders, " Come, we want the convenience and the tution and for different purposes. . power and the facilities and value of your combined line." The SPEAKER pro tenipore, (Mr. HAiuus, of Virginia, in the chair.) It has been well said here that this country, however much some The gentleman's time ha8 expired. men may talk against the corporation power, cannot get along with­ Mr. ROBINSON. I think not, Mr. Speaker; but that I am to take out associated capital. No individual alone can undertake these up the whole morning hour. enterprises. No man would dare to risk his fortune in such great The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman bad twenty minutes undertakings. The people, wherever they are, who have been living yesterday and was entitled only to forty minutes this morning. hundreds of miles out of the sound of the locomotive's shriek will Mr. WILLITS. · I hope by unanimous consent the gentleman will always welcome the iron horse when he comes into their locality. be permitted to proceed until he concludes his speech. Why, sir, in these discussions about United States courts, how ready Mr. WAIT. I move that the gentleman be allowed to go on and gentlemen have been to tell us how many railroads they have run­ finish his remarks. ning to this and that town, and how the people are benefited and the Mr. ROBINSON. It will be agreeable, I think, to the gentleman courts accommodated I from Kentucky who is to follow me, to begin to-morrow, rather than I pass on. Savings-banks and trust companies are organized in for the few minutes remaining of the morning hour. many of the States. They are authorized to loan their funds, many Mr. TUCKER. I move that the gentleman be allowed to go on for of them, outside of the borders of the State in which they exist. the remainder of the morning hour. That is not so in Massachusetts, hut it is so in many States. Are sav­ Several MEMBERS. Go on; go on. ings-banks rich corporations T They are the ~rust companies, the There was no objection, and it was ordered accordingly. trust establishments of the poor people of the Sta.tea. Yon examine Mr. ROBINSON. Mr. Speaker, I am under obligation to the House their accounts, and you find them, from · 1 up to 1,000, composed of for its courtesy, and I will not trespa-ss on it. I was saying that this the slow and painful earnings of the people in the shops and the bill did not do its work direetly, but sought to do it indirectly. mills or on the farms of the States that have fostered those institu­ What does this bill say T Not flatly and plainly, as some perhaps tions. Suppose they lend their funds in the West or the Semth; sup­ would have it, that these corporations shall forfeit their citizenship; pose they lend them in New York or elsewhere; I say they ought to but it says we will close the doors of the United States courts against have the rights of the citizens who have saved their money and in­ this class of citizens. Is that any more manly T Is that any more trusted them to the officers of those corporations. In nearly all cases honorable Y Is that any more within the constitutional power of the officers of those corporations serve without pay. Congress T Shnt your doors I We tore down the placard "no negroes But there are foreign insurance companies; gentleman say, they here;" ·shall we now write over the vestibule "no corporations can are the trouble. Well, let us soe. Is that real or is it fancied f How be heard." Why, if you say the circuit court shall not consider the come the foreign insurance companies in any State f I mean the foreign causes which may come from one class of citizens, you may go on to insurance companies of this country, foreign as to the State in which classify your litigation to snit the prevailing temper of Congress, and they do business. Unless a Stn.te by express act or by implied recog­ yon may in this Congress provide the circuit court shall not hear a . nition allows an insurance company to do business within its borders black man, and in the next place you may provide the black man it has no right there-I mean a foreign insurance company. The may be heard but no gentleman from South Carolina sha.ll be heard. States have regulated that. Ohio has its law; Indiana has its law; I need not enlarge further. I have submitted the point with con­ Wisconsin, Michigan, Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, and fidence in its soundness. nearly all the other States make provisions for those corporations to And I go further. Whether or not it is sound in law, it is emi­ come. They provide that they shall come in and make certain depos­ nently fair and wise in comity and statesmanship. Let us look at its; that they shall have an agent upon whom process shall be served; the status of this matter. What are corporations T Creations of they make such provisions as they choose, and the corporation must States-local creatures born of the parent States. They have their abide by those conditions, provided that they are not repugnant to home in the States of their creation, and they are hedged and bounded the Constitution and laws of the United States. When the State of in their power by the territorial limits of the States creating them. Wisconsin exacted from a foreign insurance company as a condition Why, the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. WEAVER] wandered far when of its doing business in that State an agreement that it would not he said, the other day, in these words: remove any ca.use to the circuit court of the United States the Su­ Take for illustration a railroad corporation. It is organized, perhaps, under the preme Court of the United States put its hand on that le~islation and law of Massachusetts. It stretches its iron arms westward until it reaches the said, that ilil r~pugnant to the Constitution and laws of the United> Missouri River, passing through the great States of New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, and perhaps others. It enters these States, and by States and the company may remove its cause. I refer to 20 Wall., the right of eminent domain cond.flmns the J?C'Operty of the citi.zen, proceeds to 445, Home Insurance Company vs. Morse. But when the same State build and la.y the foundation of a colossal fortune. It builds its road and occupies of Wisconsin, as the next step, revoked the license of a foreign ins1r1- the teITitory, and proposes to occupy for all future time. ance company for a similar act and that question came to the Suprem& Why, Mr. Speaker, that is eloquence, but it is·not law. I want to Court of the United States, the court said, Wisconsin has the power say, and the gentleman knows well, that no Massachusetts corpora­ to give license and she has the power to revoke it. I cite Doyle vs. tion can go into Iowa and exercise the right of eminent domain ex­ Continental Insurance Company, 4 Otto, 535. cept with the authority of the great State of Iowa. Other States, as Missouri, have attempted legislation perhaps more Mr. WEAVER. Let me make this remark. They do do it by indi­ dangerous. Indiana has gone a step further. Less than a year ago, rection. in March last, the State of Indiana passed a law in which it provided Mr. ROBINSON. I cannot yield. that if a foreign insurance company shall remove a cause from the Mr. WEAVER. It will not come out of your time, and the gentle­ State court into the Federal court under the United States Constitu­ man should not misrepresent me. tion and laws it shall forfeit its right to its real estate and to its Mr. ROBINSON. It will come out of my time, as the morning hour liens ancl to its contracts, and that the contract, while not binding has nearly expired. upon the inclividaal unless he chooses to have it, shall be binding No corporation, as we all know, can go outside of the limits of its upon the corporation. That is Indiana. legislation in this same Hne. State and enter another State, except by the authority of tbe State The act i~ as follows: which it will enter, whatever may be its business. Eminent domain I An act touching foreign corporat~~:k ~~/e~;;1:~ing that certain acts thereo.f shall Why, that is the high prerogative of the sovereignty of the State which holds the territory, and that State may, in its discretion, part [Approved March 15, 1879.] with it or apportion it to such objects and purposes as commend them­ SECTIOX l. Be 1:t enact.eel. by the General Assembly of the State of Indiana, That selves to its best judgment. So Legislatures give to great corpora­ every foreign corporation now doing or transacting, or that shall horeatter c1o or transact :my business in this State, or acquire any right, title, intere t in. or lien tions organized for the public benefit, as the Legislatures believe, the upon real estate in this State, that shall transfer or cause to be trall,Sferretl from right to take land. I need not defend railroad corporations ; they any court of this State to any court of the United States, save by regular conrso of have their defenders in this Honse. Gentlemen who have practiced appeal, afoor trial in the Stare courts, any action commenced by 011 against such corporation in any court of this State, by or against any citizen o:r resident thereof, at the bar for years as attorneys of corporations know that, senti­ or that shall oommence in any court ef tb.e United States in tl\is Sta.to an any con­ ment a-side, there are rights on one· side as well as rights on the other. tract made in this State, or liability acorued therein, any suit or action ai:raiust a.ny Railroad corporations ! Why, you take the great liBes across this citizen or resident of the S~t~ Qf lndiO\Ila., shall ther \\j :\wf~\t aU fight and au, X-54 850 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 12, thority t.o do or transa-Ot business in this State, or hold real property or liens thereon, ORDER OF BUSINESS. and ail contract.a between such corporationB and citizens, or resident.a of this State, made after the passage of this act, shall be rendered void, as in favor of such cor­ Mr. BLACKBURN. Has the morning hour expired f poration, but enforceable by such citizen at hi~ election. The SPEAKER pro tentpore, (Mr. H.uuus, of Virginia.) It has. SEC. 2. The provisions of this act shall be, and the same are hereby, made con­ Mr. BLACKBURN. Then I move that the House go into Commit- ditions upon which such corporations may be authorized to '1.o business in this tee of the Whole for the further consideration of the report of the State, or hold title to or liens on real estate therein. SEC. 3. There being now no law of this Stat.e ooverin~ the provisions of this act, Committee on Rules. therefore an emergency exist.a, and tho same shall be m force from and after its Mr. WELLS. I desire to report from the Committee on Appropri­ passage. ations a deficiency Indian appropriation bill for consideration at this The Legislature of Indiana considered there was such a public time. emergency that they had that act by its terms take effect on its pas­ Mr. BLACKRURN. I would make no objection to it if it did not sage. The very instant the governor of the great State of Indiana. give rise to debate. wrote his sign-manual upon that act every corporation from another Mr. HAYES. I call for the regular order. State doing business in Indiana was subject to that legislation. Is The SPEAKER p1·0 tenipore. The regular order being called for, it constitutional Y I think not. And is there any cause for wonder the question is on the motion of the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. that any attempt to remit citizens of other States to the courts of BLACKBURN] to go into Committee of the Whole for the further con­ Indiana controlled by the sentiments and policy expressed in such sideration of the report of the Committee on Rules. legislation is viewed with alarm 7 Mr. WELLS. Then I ask to report this bill to be printed and re­ I have only to say a word or two further and then I will close. I committed. have said the States may exclude corporations. We all know that. Mr. BLACKBURN. I have no objection to that. And with such power in the States let their Legislatures exercise it Th"DI.A....~ DEFICIENCY APPROPRIATION BILL. as they may deem best. Surely Congress should not, by any policy Mr. WELLS, by unanimous consent, from the Committee on Ap· that is unwise or unsound, attempt to impose conditions or restric­ propriations, reported a bill (H. R. No. 4432) making additional ap­ tions that the States do not establish. Again, money may be loaned propriations for the support of certain Indian tribes for the year the towns and cities and counties throughout this country. And is ending June 30, 1880; which was read a first and second time, ordered it not fresh in your recollection that a good many of your towns and to be printed, and recommitted to the Committee on Appropriations. cities have seen fit to deny the obligation of loans made to them f REVISION" OF THE RULES. And was it not best and right that the citizen of another State, nat­ ural or artificial, whether from the West, the South, or the East, Mr. BLACKBURN. I now insist upon my motion to go into Com­ should have the right to go into the United States court to try the mittee of the Whole upon the report of the Committee on Rules. question whether a certain county should pay its debts rather than The motion wa-s agreed to. go into the courts o.f that county T This bill says if you lend money The House accordingly resolved itself into Committee of the Whole,. to the town or city.pr county, and you are a non-resident of that Mr. CARLISLE in the chair. State and a corporation, you shall seek your remedy against the town The pending provision of the rules was the following: or city or county in its own court at the hands of its own people, who RULE xvn. . are to pay the taxes and take the law from the judges who sit on the PREVIOUS QUESTIO~. bench elected by the votes of the people who pay the taxes, voted 1. There shall be a m,,tion for the previous question, which, being ordered by a. for generally by the defendants in the cases, and who expect to be majority of members present, if a quorum, shall ha.ve the effect to out off all debate and bring the House to a direct vote upon the immediat.e question or questions on elected next time, sometimes because they make this decision or the which it has been asked and ordered. The previous question may be asked and other that may suit the popular whim. ordered upon a single motion, a series of motions allowable under the rnles or an I will not apply that to the West only. In all parts of the country amendment or amendments, or may be made to embrace all authorized motion1 s or there occur times of excitement. Yon say that jf a corporation shall amendments and include the bill to its engrossment and third r eading, and then , on renewal of said motion, to its passage or rejection. It shall be in order, pend­ go into a State to do business, let it abide by the law of the people ing the motion fOl' or after the previous question shall have been ordered on the where it seeks to do business. Yes, gentlemen, in times of peace and final passage, for the Speaker to entertain and submit a motion to commit, with or harmony and when there is no prejudice or excitement. But no State without instructions, to a standing or special committee; and a motion to lie upon is always free from that. Massachusetts has had its periods of jeal­ the table shall be in order on the second and third reading of a bill. ousy and prejudice; and there have been times in my recollection Mr. HAWLEY. I wish to suggest merely a. verbal correction in when some gentlemen of the South, if they belongef Nebraska. otherwise, without debate. i.880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 851

RULE XVIIL impossible, certainly irregular, for the Committee on Appropriations RECONSIDERATION. to report in a.n appropriation bill any proposition for a change of When a motion has been made and carried or lost, it sha.ll be in order for any existing laws. It will also be out of order for any amendment chang­ member of the majority, on the same or succeeding day, to move for the reconsid­ in~ existing la.w to be received upon the consideration of an appro­ eration thereof, and such motion shall take precedence of all other questions except the consideration of a conference report, a motion to fix the day to which the HollSe priation bill. In a word, it clearly and distinctly confines the Appro­ shall adjourn to adjourn, or to take a recess, and shall not be withdrawn after the priations Committee and the appropriation bills of this Hoµse to the said succeedfuu day without the consent of the House, and thereafter any member appropriation of public money to carry on the different departments may call it up for co~ideration: P~ovided , ~hat such motion, if made during the of the Government. If this is made the rule it will be impossible to last six davs of a session, sba.11 be disposed of when made. 2. No bill, petition, memorial, or resolution referred to a committee, or reported have a. recurrence of such debates as we had during the extra session therefrom for printin~ and recommi~ent, s~aµ be broug~t back into th~ House of the present Congress. 1 think the amendment meets the necessi­ on a. motion to reconsider; and all bills, petitions, memonals, or resolutions re­ ties of the hour. Its wisdom should commend it to the approval of ported from a committee shall be accompanied by reports in writing, which shall a.ll fair-minded men in this body. be printed. RULE XIX. There a.re no politics what.ever in the amendment. Both parties in OF AMENDMENTS. the past history of the Government have offended (if it is an offense) When a motion or proposition is under consideration, a motion to amend and a by proposing changes of existing law upon appropriation bills. .A.ll motion to amend that amendment shall be in order, and it shall also be in order to parties which have had at different times control of legislation have offer a. further amendment by way of substitute, to which one amendment may be been a.lt.ernately criticized for the practice of adding riders to appro­ offered but which shall not be voted on until the original matter is perfected, but either ~ay be withdrawn before amendment or decision is had thereon. priation bills. If this rule be now adopted it will be a new depart­ RULE XX. · ure in a direction which I think the sentiment of the country de­ OF AMKh"DMENTS OF THE SENATE. mands. I call the attention of members from the different States to Any amendment of the Senate to any House bill shall be sub.iect to the point of the fact that this amendment embodies, brie1ly and tersely expressed, order that it shall first be considered in the Committee of the Whole House on the provisions to be found in the recently adopted" constitutions of many state of the Union if, originating in the House, it would be subject to that point. of the States. I think it is very similar to a. provision in the new con­ RULE XXL stitution of Illinois. It certainly is almost in tQtidem verbis the pro­ ON BILI.a. vision regulating appropriations as contained in the new constitution 1. Bills and joint resolutions introduced for reference and those reported by com­ of Pennsylvania. This constitution met the approval of the popular mittees without such introduction shall be read a first time by their titles and printed, the second time in full, the third time by their titles, unless the reading in will by a majority of some one hupdred and fifty thousand vot.es. full shall be demanded by a member. No feature of this constitution commended itself more to the people Mr. BLACKBURN. I offer the following as a. substitut.e for the of our great State than this change of the manner of passing general first clause of Rule XX!: appropriation bills. It is not necessary for me to argue what every Every bill and joint resolution shall receive three readings before its passage, gentleman is familiar with. This proposition clearly defines the issue which shall be as follows: The first reading by title on its introduction for refer­ between those who favor ma.king a.ppropria.tion bills the wager of ence or being an original bill on its report from a committee for commitment, or battle for genera.I and partisan legislation and those who oppose it. by ullimimous consent for present action; the second reading in full ; and the third Let us see how it will end. reading by its title, unless the reading in full shall be demanded by a. member. [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. FRYE. Does the gentleman offer this amendment by authority Mr. CONGER. Mr. Chairman, I rise to oppose this amendment. I of the Committee on Rules f oppose its insertion in the place where it is proposed to be inserted. Mr. BLACKBURN. The committee agreed to this, except possibly When we reach the next para.graph I should be in favor of some pro­ as to one point, upon which there was probably some dissent on the vision of this kind. As I said on a former occasion, I desired when part of one member of the committee; that was in reference to the we should reach this subject to make some remarks in regard to the second reading of a bill being in full, I do not; undersfiand that there clam:ie permitting legislation on appropriati.on bills. The whole his­ is any objection upon the part of any member of the committee to tory of Congress shows that no such power was ever claimed when a this amendment; a.nd, if not, then it is offered by the authority and party had control of the three departments of the Government-the direction of the committee. House, the Senate, a.nd the executive-never. · Mr. CANNON, of Illinois. I suppose the second reading in full My friend from Pennsylva.uia [Mr. WHITE] has referred to the pro­ under the proposed amendment can be dispensed with by unanimous visions of many of the State constitutions. I wish to show how ut­ consent. terly inconsistent, under the leadership of our Speaker, (who is Mr. BLACKBURN. Yes, sir. present, I believe,) have been the votes of all my southern friends in Mr; CAN.NON, of Illinois. The amendment speaks of dispensing the adoption and enforcement of the provision now contained inour with the third reading by unanimous consent, but it does not speak rules. Those who regard as of binding force the example of south­ of dispensing with the second reading by unanimous consent. This ern gentlemen in framing the constitution of the confederacy will is the reason I made the inquiry. ~ar in mind that that constitution contained a. clause preventing Mr. BLACKBURN. I will say to the gentleman from Illinois that legislation on appropriation bills. Those who adopt.ad that constitu­ it is not the purpose of this rule to restrict the right of any member tion were uninfluenced by any desire to override any party o:r any to demand the reading of a.ny bill in full upon its passage after it people, uninfluenced by any desire to have an opportunity to slip in shall have been engrossed. This simply waives the necessity of a. any legislation against the will of a portion of the House or against demand for the full reading of the bill prior to its engrossment; and the will of the Senate or against the will of the President. I only after its engrossment it will be in the power of any member to call refer to this because of the rebuke it carries with H to gentlemen for the reading of tlie bill in full. who uphold the proposition now contained in our rules. The clause The amendment was agreed to. in the constitution of the confederacy to which I have reforred was The Clerk read as follows : adopted as the solemn sentiment of gentlemen who now represent 2. Bills and joint resQlutions on their passa~e shall be read the first time by title the South, a.nd whom I from time to time in my innocent manner and the second time in full. when, if the previous question is ordered, the Speaker charge with carrying out so effectually the views of southern m~n in shall state the question to be : Shall tho bill be engrossed and read a third time 1 and, if decided in the affirmative, it shall be read the tJ.rird time by title, unless the old times even up to the present. reading in full is demanded by a member, and the question shall then be put upon Mr. ATKINS. There is one good thing, then, in the South. its passage. Mr. CONGER. It is in direct opposition to the vote of every man Mr. WHITE. I move to amend by inserting after the clause just in the South as to its expediency, as to its propriety, for when re­ read the following, to come in as clause 3 : porting their own constitution they adopted a. provision prohibiting The ~eneral appropriation bills shall embrace nothing but appropriations for legislation on appropriation bills. the ordinary expenses of the difl'eren t departments of the Government and interest Mr . .ATKINS. Circumstances alt.er cases. on the public debt. All other appropriations shall be made by bills containing only Mr. CONGER. I say circumstances a.Uer cases. This proposition items of appropriation relating to the subject-matter of the bilL never was made until it became necessary for the Speaker of this l\Ir. Chairman, this is substantially the amendment which I offered House to ask his southern friends from the late confederacy to change during the consideration of the eleventh rule, when we had rea-0hed their entire views which they bad embodied in a constitutional pro­ the clause defining the duties of the Appropriations Committee. At vision, change their entire course of action, and sustain him in a the suggestion of my collea~ue, the Speaker of the House, I with­ change of the rules, a change from that which had been the rule of drew it then to offer it at this time. This is the proper place, I ap­ this House, compelling his associates from the Confederate States prehend, to offer it. service to violate their judgment as embodied in their own constitu­ Mr. BLACKBURN. Does the gentleman from Pennsylvania offer tion-- this as a substitute for the third clause! Mr. RANDA.LL, (the Speaker.) Will the gentleman allow me a Mr. WHITE. No, sir; I offer this as an independent clause to come momentf in ahead of the present third clause. If this amendment should pre­ Mr. CONGER. After my :five minutes are up. [Laughter.] I look vail, it will be prudent to amend the present third clause by striking upon that action of the Speaker of this House when he placed him­ from it that portion which provides- self at the head of the whole confederate army in this House and Nor shall any provision in any such bill or amendment thereto chanj?ing exist. compelled them to ignore the action of their wisest and best and fol­ ing law be in order, except such as, being germane to tbe snbject-matr.er of the low in his lead-I say I look upon that as one of the greatest triumphs bill, shall retrench expenditures. that a northern man ever gained over the confederate brigadier-gen­ Now, Mr. Chairman, this proposition clearly and distinctly raises erals of this House. [Laughter.] No member of this side of this before the Honse the issue, is it proper to put general legislation on House, sir, ever could have begun to influence these friends of the apJ,>ropriation bills! If this amendment prevails it will be hereafter South so suddenly, so unitedly, so earnestly as to cast reproach, dis- 852 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOVSE. FEBRUARY lZ,

~ace, and shame upon those of their friends, if not themselves, who that we should have succeeded in forcing a repeal of those relics of had incorporated into the solemn instrument of organization of the war legislation-sections 801, &20, and 821 of the Revised Statutes, southern confederacy a clause which prevented legislation even for which practically excluded from the jury-box nearly all of the white the reduction of expenses upon their appropriation bills. people in eleven States of this Union, if it had not been for this same The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman's time has expired. Rule 120 Y In my judgment, sir, that much-abused rule has not only Mr. CONGER. Is my time quite up. [Laughter.] been the means of enabling this Congress to save $30,000,000 of the The CHAIRMAN. It is. people's money per annum in the expenditures of the Government, Mr. CONGER. I have a word or two to say about the Speaker, but but it has been the bulwark behind which we have been able to keep he hows my estimate of his power. [Laughter.] the Army from the polls and to break down the barriers which ex­ Mr. RANDALL, (the Speaker.) The gentleman from Michigan is cluded fair and impartial jurors from the jury-box. This is my jud~­ genez;ally accurate and I wonder be is not so in reference to what he ment in regard to this rule, and I am not willing as a member of this has just stated. I am not perhaps as familiar with the confederate Honse to have it repealed. It has enabled us to accomplisl.i great constitution aB he is; but, if I recollect aright, the constitution of the and salutary measures of reform which entitle this House to the grat­ Confederate States contains no such clause as that which he alleges. itude of the country; but we must not stop in the good work until Mr. CONGER. I think it does. we have secured the repeal of certain sections of the Revised Stat­ Mr. RANDALL, (the Speaker.) I think not. The clause, as I rec­ utes which permit the presence of Federal marshals at the polls with ollect, in that constitution, gave to the president of the confederacy power to interfere in the conduct of elections and arrest American the right to veto any part of an appropriation bill. citizeUB on suspicion with or without process of law. A MEMBE.R. Any item. - [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. RANDALL, (the Speaker.) Any item of an appropriation bill; Mr. REED. Mr. Chairman, I must say that I am surprised to hear but it did not restrict"' the confederate congress in any respect, as to the language of the gentleman from Virginia, for no man knows bet­ what legislation shorud be placed upon appropriation bills. So that ter than he that the legislation to which he has alluded would have "no8le army" he speaks of from the South as having battled for received geI\eral approval but for the forceful fashion in which it was economy-and I join him in every commendation of their conduct­ tried to be put on in this Honse. was not inconsistent when they aasumed the position upon this floor Mr. GOODE. We tried it time and again in separate bills. in fav<>l' of legislation upon appropriation bills, in favor of retrench­ Mr. REED. But I am sorry to see in the enumeration of the various ment and reform. [Applause.] . benefits received from Rule 120 he haa forgotten to enumerate tha{ Mr. CONGER. And if it should appear that was in the confederate great benefit y~t t.o accrue to the country from the actions which constitution as I have stated it-I have it not here and I cannot refer took place under that rule in the extra session, namely, the extirpa:. to it-then the gentleman will agree he had the power to lead the tion of the democratic party, which is to occur the next time the whole army of southern men against their will. people of the United States have an opportunity to pass upon it. Mr. RANDALL, (the Speaker.) I do not want to lead a better army [Applause on the republican side.] 1 than the army in the Forty-fourth Congress, first session, without It gave the country a good opportunity to see what these gentle­ regard to where they came from, which fought in defense of economy men were so eager to do, and what they were disposed to do, and did and reform. [Applause.] do, when they had the power; and the result of the airing of the Mr. CONGER. We all know that; we all know the pride with which democratic party before the people of the United States is always of the Speaker leads that army against the North and against the people. great interest and benefit to the country. Not only that, it is not Mr. RANDALL, (the Speaker.) Mr. Chairman, I have no answer only national but local. Wherever we can get a fair opportunity for to make to that remark. a review of that collection of gentlemen, a good result has always Mr. GOODE. I move to strike out the last word. followed for the country. The CHAIRMAN. · Inasmuch· as this is a very important matter, It seems to me bad this matter should be brought up and discussed unless some gentleman insists on it the Chair will not require these upon such a basis. We are endeavoring to fix some rule for the gov­ formal amendments to be made, and will endeavor to recognize gen­ ernment of the House, and we are endeavoring to do it upon principles tlemen alternately-first, those for, and then those against-until which will hold not only for the present, but for all future time. I such time as the committee sees proper to ask that the rules shall be think if we have a mind to come to this question in a dispassionate strictlv enforced. and decent fashion we will be enabled to fix upon some rule, and t,hat Mr. GoODE. Mr. Chairman, we are not here now to make a con­ we shall be able to do it by a suitable amendment to this Rule 120. slitution. Whatever may be in the constitution of the late Confed­ And when the time comes I purpose to offer an amendment to the third erate States, I wish to call the attention of the gentleman from Mich­ clause; of which I wish to give notice now to the Honse. It is to igan who has just spoken to the fact that the Constitution of the strike out from the third clause all after the word "order," in the sixth United States, under which we now live, provides that each Honse line, and insert the words "but it shall be in order to strike out any may determine the rules of its own proceeding for itself. And if the sum of money appropriated in a bill and insert a less sum." House of Representatives, in the adoption of its rules? shall determine That will give every opportunity for retrenchment and r.eform, and that it is judicious and proper to ingraft general legislation upon an reduction of expenditures, and at the same time it will keep out these appropriation bill, then neither the Senate nor the President nor any­ firebrands that prevent calm and dispassionate legislation. My ob­ body else has the right to make any complaint or objection. It is a jection to the proposition presented by the gentleman from.Pennsyl­ matter, sir, within the discretion of the Hoose of Representatives, in vania is, among other things, that it presents the idea that an appro­ which is vested the sole and exclusive power to originate money bills. priation is necessary in the general appropriations for the interest of Now, Mr. Chairman, while I concede as a general proposition that the public debt; I believe that that is already provided for under our it may be an unscientific method of legislation, yet I maintain that general appropriation laws. occasions may arise when the public liberties may be so seriously im­ Mr. SPEER. With the concurrence of the chairman of the Com­ periled tha~ the House of Representatives ought not to surrender mittee on Rules, I move that, as this is a very important subject, the this power and ought not to coUBent under any circumstances not to committee rise for the purpose of extending the time for debate upon resort to its exercise. If bad and vicious legislation is fastened upon it. the statute-book which we are unable to repeal on account of the Several MEMBERS. Oh, no. executive veto, then it is not only the right but in my judgment it Mr. BLACKBURN. I have no objection to that motion being made. is the duty of the House to stand and withhold the appropriations I desire to say so far as the Committee on Rules is concerned it does of money until-- not propose to pat any limit on the debate on this rule to-day. Mr. ROBESON. Let me interrupt the gentleman for a mere ques­ The CHAIRMAN. By a strict enforcement of the rule only five tion. minutes would be allowed in favor of an amendment and five min­ Mr. GOODE. We ought to withhold the money until we can obtain utes against, but the debate can be extended by means of yro Jonna a redress of the grievances complained of. amendments. Mr. ROBESON. I merely wish to ask the gentleman a single :Mr. GARFIELD. Allow me to suggest that for a time at least it question in this connection. . seems to me it will facilitate the discussion of this matter if we could Mr. GOODE. I have not time to yield to the gentleman. have the ten-minute rule instead of the five-minute rule prevail. Mr. ROBESON. I merely wish to ask the gentleman whether the That would allow a large number of gentlemen to speak, while five House of Representatives have the right under any circumstances minutes is hardly eoongh in view of the importance of this question under the Constitution to usurp the rights of the Seil.ate or of the Ex­ and the Eitate of feeling upon it. I believe that if we should agree to ecu!Uve t adopt the ten-minute rule for to-day it would greatly facilitate the Mr. GOODE. No, sir; but under the Constitution the House may debate. determine the rules of its own proceeding. .Mr. RANDALL, (the Speaker.) The House would have to do that, Mr. Chairman, there is no better teacher than experience. There and in the House it could only be done by unanimous coUBent, for it is no safer criterion to judge of the future than by the past. And I vacates a rule. · ask any gentleman on this floor if we could ever have succeeded l\Ir. GARFIELD. Could not unanimous consent be given without in incorporating the legislation which was incorporated in the appro­ the committee rising Y priation bill during the first session of this Congress, to wit, that no J\.!r. BLACKBURN. It would require unanimous consent to be money appropriated ~hould be used for the subsistence, equipment, given in the House. · transportation, or compensation of any portion of the Army of the Mr. WARNER. In the present state of feelingthisdebateislikely United States to be used as a police force at the polls, if it had not to take about five hundred minutes, even if we proceed under the five­ been for the provisions of Rule 120 T And does any man believe minute rule. 1880. CONGRESSIONAL · RECORD-HOUSE. 853

Mr. HAYES. Does the proposition of the gentleman from Ohio Mr. SPRINGER. There never was a. time when such legislation. [Mr. GARFIELD] require unanimous consent! , was not put upon appropriation bills. And, so far as I am conceri;ed, The CHAIRMAN. As the proposition is to change the time al­ I assert here that it is a constitutional and righteous mode of legisla­ lowed for debate, it would be necessary for the committee to rise, tion and necessary in many cases ; and that the propriety of such and in the House such an order could only be made by unanimous legi~lation is solely within the discretion of the Honse, and nobody consent. outside of it, or inside of it, has the right to question our authority Mr. WHITE. It strikes me, Mr. Chairman, that the same thing to legislate in any way we please. . . could be oocomplished by gentlemen rising and yielding their time If we give up this Rule 120 we give .up ~:me of the pr~rogatryes to each other. of this Honse, secured to us by the Constitution, a ~rerogative which Mr. WARNER. From the indications, the debate will take three Mr. Madison believed was the greatest and most IIDportant te the months under the five-minnto rule. representatives of the people which wase~bodietl in our Co~stitntion. Mr. SPEER. I desire now to offer the amendment of which I gave I refer gentlemen to·No. 58 of the Federalist, where Mr. Madison says: notice some days ago, as follows : The House of Representatives can not only- refase, but they alo!le can propose In Rule XX!, clause 3, strike out aJl after the word " except," and insert-­ the supplies requisite for the support of the Government. They, m a word, ho~d the purse, that powerful instrument by which we .behold, in the bi.story of the Brit­ The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will state to the gentleman from ish constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people ~ually enlar~­ Georgia that the third clause of Rule XX! is not now under consid­ ing the sphere of its activity and importance, and :finally reducmg, as far as it eration. It has not been reached. seems to have wished, all the over!!l'own prerogatives of the other branches of Mr. SPEER. I withdraw the amen·dment, 'then, until that clause is the Government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with w~?h any constitution can a~ the imm_¢iate reached. . representatives of the people for obtalDlDg a redress of evecy grievance, and for Mr. SPRINGER. When this question was before the committee for carrying into ejfect every just and salutary measure. consideration a few days ago the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. GAR­ Mr. Madison, who has been appropriately styled the "Father of the FIELD] stated that Rule 1201 permitting le~lation on appro_priation Constitution," here informs us that the power of this House over the bills, was the rock upon which the democratic party had split. I do purse, the power of ~aming appropriation bills, is a coID;plet~ weapon not know to what he referred, because the democratic party has not for securinCY' ''every JUSt and salutary mea.sure" of leg1Slat10n. The split upon anything. But is the placing of legislation upon appropri­ amendmeni now under consideration would put it in the power of ation bills unconstitutional or a departure from legislative precedents T one member to defeat all legislation on appropriation bills, and to Not at all. I want to call the attention of the House and of the prevent any reduction of expenditures below what are now authorized country and of the honorable gentleman from Ohio to the fact that by law unless by a two-thirds vote on Mondays the rule could_be during the time when he occupied the responsible position of chair­ suspended. We have no right to yield one of the most important man of the Committee on Appropriations of this House in the Forty­ powers of this House to the minority. I propose to adhere to Rulo l'!econd and Forty-third Congresses there were passed by Congress 120 as it is. No change is demanded by the people. As Represen~a;. appropriation bills which contained, as I have computed them here, tives we have no right to surrender our trusts. We must exerci~ eighty-eight sections of new legislation upon such bills. You can the functions of Representatives in the interest of the people wh.o scarcely find one appropriation bill repo~d to this. House du~ing the sent us here. We have the right to make our own rules and t-0 legiir time the gentleman from Ohio was charnnan of the Committee on late in any manner. we may deem best. I deny that any harm has Appropriations that did not have one or more sections upon it of gen­ eral legislation. A gentleman near me suggests I should put the sec­ resulted to the people from the operation ~f Ru~e 120. I will ~o'] consent to its rep~al. It is a salutary rule, strictly rn accordance with tions in my printed remarks. I would have to reproduce a large part the Constitution of the United States. _ of volumes 17 and 18 of the Statutes at Large of the United States The right to legislate upon ap~ropriation bills is one.of the s~est in order to show the new legislation on appropriation bills reported and most important bulwarks which we have for defendi:ng the rights and enacted while the honorable gentleman from Ohio was chairman and the liberties of the people. It was never discovered by the gen­ of the Committee on Appropriations. It was during this time the tleman from Ohio [Mr. GARFIELD] that such was vicious legislation practice to legislate upon the appropriation bills and many of the until Rule 120 was used by the majority of this House in the Forty­ most important provisions of law ena~ted during the Congresses fonrth Congress for securing a vast reduction of expenditures. _ . when the gentleman from Ohio occupied that position were placed This rule has been used in the interest of the people to the extent upon those bills. of a reduction of public expenditures to the amount of $84,000,00Q I call the attention of the commitree to the following table of ap­ since the majority of this Honse passed under the c.ontrol of membe~s propriation bills which passed during the Forty-second and Forty­ of the democratic party. We cannot surrendei: t~1s power_; we mus~ third Congresses and to the sections thereof which contained new not give it up. We must adhere to the rule as it IB,for by1t we have legislation : · already saved many millions of dollars to the people, and if we adhere New legislation, on appropriation bills in the Forty-second and Forty-third to it we will save millions more in the same way. Let us stand by Congresses, dm·ing which time Mr. Garfield was chairman of &he Corn­ this rule. It is the rule adopted by the democratic House of Repre­ mittee on .Approp1'iatwns. sentatives of the Forty-fourth Congress. We have adhered to it. since .... that time; it has produced no bad results; but on th~ c.ontrary it has al 0 secured many wise and salutary reforms and saved millions of d'oUars Laws. ~ 0 ai>:l :pl of the people's money. :g0 j~ [Here the hammer fell.] •,..C~ Mr. WHITE. I rise to make a proposition. Department. ~ .... ~·Si ~ 0 c::) ;..a:> The CHAIRMAN. The gentleIOOin will state it. .... ~ G)- 0 ,c c::) .O..cl Mr. WHITE. I desire to withdraw the amendment which I have ~ t.O ao offered to the second clause of Rule XXI, inasmuch as the gentleman d ~ ~ ~ A p. P-4 :z; ~Ill== from Georgia [Mr. SPEER] has given notice of bis intention to offer an amendment to the next clause which will accomplish the same June 6, 1872 purpose. For that reason I withdraw my amendment. Army .••••••••••.• ·-·-·· 0 17 261 1,2 2 Army ...•..•••••.•....•. Mar. 3, 18i3 17 545 1 1 Mr. GARFIELD. Allow me to suggest to gentlemen on the other Mar. 3, 1873 17 530 1 1 side that we pass without further debate the second clause, so that ~~:r~i:!1ci ;iipl~~~ti~: May 2-2, 18i2 17 143 1 l Consular and diplomatic. Feb. 22,Hm 17 474 2,3 2 we may proceed to consider clause 3 in this rule. Indian ...... May 29, 18i2 17 189, 190 2, 4, 5, 7, 8 5 ?ilr. WHITE. I offered my amendment as a new clanse, but with­ Indian·--····-·· ...••... Feb. 14, 1873 17 462 2, 4,5, 6, 7 5 draw it for the purpose of allowing the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Legislative, executive, SPEER] to offer his amendment to the next clause. and judicial ...... May 8, 1872 17 82, 83, 84, 85 2-13 12 Legislath·e, executive, The amendment of Mr. WHITE was accordingly withdrawn. and judicial .....•..... Mar. 3, 1R73 17 508, :;09 2, 4 2 The Clerk read as follows: · Navy·--···------·-··· ... Mar. 23, 1872 17 154 2 1 3. No appropriation shall be reported in any general appropriation bill, or be in Mar. 3, 1873 17 556 1, 23 3 June };-1872 17 order as an amendment thereto, for any expenditure not previously authorized by ~:S7om~::::: :: :: :: :: : : 202 1, 6 6 law, unless in contmnation of appropriations !o.r SU:Ch public wor.ks and object.~ as Post-Office.--· •.•. - •.... . Mar. 3, 1873 17 559 1 1 are already in progress. :Yor shall any proVlSton many such bill or amendment Army ...... • ·-········ Jnnel6, 1874 18 75 2 1 thereto changing existing law be in order, except such as, being germane to the Army •...... •..•...••... Mar. 3, 1 75 18 455 2,3 2 subjectrmatter or the bill, shall retrench expenditures. Sundry civil. .•...... ••.. Jnne23, 1874 18 230 4, 6 2 Sundry chil. ..•....• ; ... Mar. 3, 1875 18 399, 400, 401 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12 8 Mr. SPEER. I µiove to amend the clause just read by striking out June 22, 1874 18 176, 177, 178 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12 7 of the latter portion of it the words "except such as, being germane ~fil~:::::::::::::::::: Mar. 3, 1875 18 449, 450, 451 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 9 Legislative, executive, to the subject-matter of the bill shall retrench expenditures" and to and judicial ..•••••... . June20, 1874 18 109, 110, 111 2,3, 4,5 4 insert in lieu thereof that which I send to the Clerk's desk. Post-Office ••••••...... June23, 1874 18 232, ~3, 234 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 13 8 The Clerk read as follows: Post-Office . ....•.•••.. - •. Mar. 3, 1875 18 3 2, 343 2, 4, 5, 6, 7 5 But it shall be in order to strike out any sum of money in an appropria.tion bill and to insert a less sum. Total .••...••.. ···-·· ...... -...... 88 The latter portion of clause 3 as propo .. . d to be amended was as folJows: · Mr. BLOUNT. I would like to ask the gentleman from Illinois if Nor shall any proTI.sion in any such bill or ame!ldment theretd changing e-:r-· there was ever a time when such legislation was not put upon appro­ isting law be in order, but it shall be in order to strike out any sum of money m priation bills~ an appropriation bill and insert a less sum. 854 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 12,

.Mr. SPEER. I think that amendment will accomplish the object Mr. SPE.ER. If the gentleman cannot bear to hear my argument, which is _sought to be attained by all of those who desire to see gen­ he can make his objection. eral legislation divorced from the general appropriation bills; and it The CHAIRMAN. The Chair understands that the objection is will also accomplish fully the object of retrenching expenditures not withdrawn . when necessary. .Mr. SPEER subsequently obtained the floor, and concluded as .Mr. Chairman, in presenting the reasons why general legislation follows: should be divorced from the unnatural union with the appropriation When interrupted I was giving a hypothetical case of the effect of bills, I protest that I am not, in the slightest degree, influenced by a rider of political legislation on the Post-Office appropriation bill. partisan feeling. I take no interest in the inquiry who began to The Senate refuses to concur. On a committee of conference, both the affix riders to the appropriation bills. I shall not remind the repub­ Senate and the House decline to recede from their positions. Neither lican party of the vital legislation they have accomplished by these party desires to strike down the postal system. The political rider methods, nor is it necessary for me to occupy the attention of the is the rock on which they split. They are conscientious, and they House in defending the motives of my democratic brethren, their will not surrender their convictions. They are firm, and they will patriotism, or the purity of their purposes in the uses they have made not a.bate a jot or tittle of their just demands. The closing hour of of the same resources. the session approaches. The session expires. Not a dollar is voted Sir, if it is possible, at any time, to rise above the sordid considera­ for the maintenance of that system which to-day is one of the greatest tions of party, it should be in the discussion of rules for the perma­ agencies of civilization on the earth, without which no modern nation nent guidance and control of the business of legislation by this House. can preserve its decencyf and whose destruction wiJl carry confusion Mr. Chairman, all men of all parties, it seems to me, must agree that and misery and distress into the home of every American citizen. Sir1 the practice of attaching positive laws on other subjects or on any it is the political rider that has done the work. Sir, is this contingency subject to the money bills of this House is a practice which finds impossible 7 Is the picture fancifully drawn f What man among you no legitimate parentage in the Constitution of this Government, is there who can lay his hand on his heart and, with the history of and is fraught with mischief which at any time and when least ex­ this country in his memory, say that the conjuncture which I have pected may become irreparable. To abolish the practice would be foreboded is either impossible or improbable f a stride in the advancement of political science which would excite Mr. Chairman, to place a measure of general legislation on an ap­ the interest and the admiration of every intelligent patriot in this propriation bill which mast of necessity be passed deprives the Rep­ country. resentative of all opportunity of criticism or of independent action In the discussion of questions like this we are to some extent with regard to that measure. How is it possible in the closing hours remitted to the discussion of elementary principles. The three co­ of a session for the Representative to make his notions of right and ordinaite departments of our Government are supported by the appro­ wrong effective, when if he votes against the general legislation.he priation bills of the House of Representatives. Have gentlemen con­ must of necessity vote against the entire appropriation? He must sidered what the failure of these bills means f I do not mean a tem­ vote for the bill, or he may defeat the appropriation. He surrenders, porary failure; I do not mean a failure which can be cured by an may be, his judgment and his conscience, and votes for the bill with extra session of Congress, or which can be tided over by the credit the rider attached. Or be votes against it, and is liable to have his of t>he Government; but I mean a refusal on the part of the people's motives misconstrued, and not improbably will incur the disapproval Representatives to grant the money necessary to sustain the Govern.;. of others when perhaps he least deserves it. But, sir, it is not alone ment. Sir, it means anarchy; it means the paralysis of every depart­ the independence of the Representative to which this practice is in­ ment of this Government; it means the ropudiation of the national imical, but it is aimed likewise, whether intentionally or not it mat­ debt; it means the destruction of ,the judiciary; it means the abdi­ ters not, at the independence of the other branch of Congress and cation of the Executive; it means the dispersal of Congress. When­ at the independence of the Executive. ever the Representatives of the people permanently and continuously Sir, the most admirable feature of our most admirable system is refuse to vote the people's money to sustain the people's Government the complete independence of its co-ordinate branches. It was said red-handed revolution or the iron grasp of d~potism will seize upon by Hamilton, in the Federalist, along with his honest, zealous, lu­ and ravage the unprotected heritage of freemen. minous, and masterly advocacy of the Constitution, "that no polit­ .Mr. ATKINS. Has any party ever done that f ical truth is of greater value, or stamped with the authority of more Mr. SPEER. I decline to yield to the gentleman. I am not dis­ enlightened patrons of liberty, than that the legislative, executive, cussing this with regard to party now. It may be very easily dem­ and judicial departments ought to be separate and 4istinct, and that onstrated that the practice of riders on the appropriation bills may if this Constitution was justly chargeable with a mixture of these at any time eventuate in the refusal of the supplies. If there is one powers no further argument would be necessary to inspire a univer­ national characteristic of the American people whicll is strong and sal reprobation of the system." intense, it is a strong and intense party spirit. If this characteristic Montesquieu, before the day of Hamilton, in his oracular treatise finds unbounded expression and demonstration anywhere, I say with on this subject, ha-0. declared "there can be no liberty where the profound deference to this imposing presence it is in the House of legislative and executive powers are united in the same person or Representatives. Now, sir, let us do what it is not very difficult to body of magistrates, or if the power of judging be not separated from do. Let US' suppose that the two great parties of this House are the legislative and executive powers." divided on what they conceive to be a vital political question. Let Now, sir, does not the political rider destroy this inoopendence f . us suppose that the measure in which this vital political differe~ce Is it not intended as a threat to the Senate and to the Executive 'I Does presents itself is in a rider on the Post-Office appropriation bill. Let it not impliedly declare that the money shall not be forthcoming to us suppose that the party which is in a majority in this House is in a sustain the Government unless the Senate and the Executive will ac­ minority in the Senate ; or that the occupant of the presidential chair cede to th demands of the House of Representatives T We have, belongs to the minority school, the Post-Office bill for the support of within the past decade, been regaled with a great· deal of eloquence the post-routes and post-offices and mail carriers of the great and in the discussion of measures of this character on the subject of par­ complicated and beneficent postal system of the United States passes liamentary heroism. What does pa,rliamentary heroism in this con­ the House with the rider attached. nection mean f It means, sir, to refuse to vote the money unless the [Here the hammer fell.] Senate or the Executive shall conclude to coinQide with the House of The CHAIRMAN. The five minutes' time to which the gentleman Representatives. is entitled bas expired. Now, sir, is not this an illegitimate exercise of our prerogative f Mr. HA.YES. I will take the floor and yield my time to the gen­ Has not the Senate the same constitutional right to pronounce upon tleman from Georgia, [Mr. SPEER]. · the merits of a measure that we have f Has not the President, with The CHAIRMAN. That will be done if there be no objection. the power of the veto, fun-0tions just as important toward the enact­ Mr. COFFROTH. I object. [Cries of "Oh, no!" "Oh, no!" from ment of law as Congress itself T And yet, though it is our imperative different parts of the House.] duty to sustain all the departments, when we send the Senate and the The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman withdraw his objection T President an appropriation bill, with the proviso attached, it means Mr. COFFROTH. I do not. that we will consent to support the Government, provided you, the Mr. HAYES. I hope the gentleman will withdraw his objection. It Senate, or you, the President, will consent to agree with our proviso. has been the custom here in discussing questions to allow that to be This is usurpation. This is the aggrandizement of senatorial preroga­ dorn~. tives and the veto power in the House of Representatives. Bnti, sir, Mr. COFFROTH. This discussion must stop at some time, and I there is another most insidious effect which this species of legislation propose to stand by the rule. may have upon the independence of the executive and judicial de part­ Mr. GARFIELD. Let somebody else speak ill opposition to the ments of the Government. I am discussing this question abstractly; amendn,lent, and then the gentleman from Georgia can move an I am speaking impersonally. I mean the facility it gives to Congl'e s amendment to the amendment and speak on that. to withhold the salaries of the officers of these departments beyond Mr. McMAHON. I do not see how that arrangement can be ma-de the period of payment fixed by the Constitution. It is useless for gen­ under the rules. tlemen of an optimistic turn of mind to deny the proposition that the The CHAIRMAN. The Chair, of course, in recognizing gentlemen control over a man's salary is very likely to be a control over his will. will endeavor to conform to the rules. Human nature is pretty much the same thing it always has been. Mr. BLOUNT. I appeal to the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. We have advanced but very little toward that state of perfectibility COFFROTH] to withdraw his objection to my colleague's proceeding. which was imagined by Plato while dreaming in the gardens of the There is nothing unusual in it; it has occurred in every session of academy. It was for Uh.is reason that the Constitution wisely pro­ every Congress. vides that th~ President shall receive for his services a salary which 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 855 isball be paid at stated intervals, and shall neither be increa.aed nor time, and this in itself is sufficient argument that the practice is to -01miniAhed during bis term of office. In similar terms, it provides be deprecated, must be abandoned. Will it require any particular that the j_udges of t~e sup~eme and inferio! court~ shall at stated degree of fortitude or patriotism for gentlemen to support the reform times receive for their servrnes a compensation whrnh shall not be which I advocate T I know that it will place it out of the power of -diminished during their continuance in office. The Constitution the majority to repeal at present certain measures of political legis­ .seeks to deprive Congress of the power of discretionary action with lation which I most heartily desire should be blotted from the stat­ regard to the salaries of these officials. ute-book, but the good to be attained is worthy of that sacrifice. Sir, I a

summer to the existing rule of the British Honse of Lords which The cobstitntions of the same State adepted in 1864 and 1867 con.- prevents "tacking," as the phrase there is, to appropriation or tain a similar provision. i' supply :7 bills in the House of Commons, the express purpose of Massachusetts retains her old constitution of 1780, which contains that rule being to protect the House of Lords in the exercise of its nothing directly on this subject, except the provision that money independent judgment. This question has not been without discus- bills shall originate in the house and the senate may amend such bills. sion and consideration in this country outside of this House, and The constitution of Michigan adopted in 1835 does not touch thi& long before either of the present political parties hacl in view any sµbject; that of 1850 provides that: ' partisan purpose in connection with this question. I have collated Nola.w shall embracemorethanonesubject, which shall be expressed in the title. references to the constitutions of all the States of the Union, and I The constitution of Minnesota, adopted in 1857, and the constitu- will briefly refer to them. tions of Mississippi, adopted in 1817, 1832, and 1868, contain no pro- Alauama in her constitution of 1863 provided that "each law shall visions on this subject. Missouri, in her constitution of 1865, bas de- em brace but one subject, which shall be described in the title." The clared- · · · constitution adopted by the same State in 1875 contains this provision: No la.w enacted by the General -4a,sembiy shall relate to more than one subject. Each la.w shall contain but one subject, which shall be clearly expressed in its and that shall be expressed in the title. title, except general appropriation bil.la, general re•enue bills, and bi1ls adopting It is provided that anything further than this shall be void. Ano a code, digest, or revision of statutes. a constitutional provision of 1875 is to the same effect. The CO!lstitntion of Arkansas adopted in 1868 provided that- Nebraska, by a constitutional provision adopted in 1866, and again No act shall embrace more than one subject, and that shall be embraced in its in 1875, provided that- ti.tl;he constitution of the same State adopted in 1874 provides- th!°tit~ shall contain more than one subject, whlch shall be clearly expressed in Tho general appropriation bill shall embrace nothing but appropriations for the The constitutbn of Nevada, adopted in 1864, contains the follow- ordinary expenses of the executive, legislative, and judicial departments of the ing : State. AU other appropriations shall be made by separate bills, each embracing but one subject. Each law enacted by the Legislature shall embrace but one subject and matter The constitution of California adopted in 1849 (I have not the last properly connected therewith, which subject shall be briefly expressed in the title. one) declares- New Hampshire, having no constitution of later date than 1792, E>ery la.w enacted by the Legislature shall embrace but one object. has no provision on this subject. • ·a d I come now to the constitution of New Jersey, adopted in 1844,. Colorado in her constitution adopted in 1 8 7 6 has proVI e - before these contests had begun. He.ar this provision from the con- No bill, except general appropriation bills, shall be passed containing but one stitution of New Jersey: subject, which shall be clearly expressed in its title. · d 'd t h · t d · To a.void improper influences which may result from intermixing in one and th& And any sueh ac t IS ma e vo1 as o so muc as 18 no expresse in same act such things as have no proper relation to each other, every la.w shall em· its title. brace but one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title. The constitution.of Connecticut, which was adopted in 1818, contains I next read from the constitution of New York, adopted in 1846: nothing on this subj~ct. . . . No private or local bill which may be passed by the Legislature shall embrace Delaware by const1tut10n adopted ill 1831 provides that- more than one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title. .All bills for raising revenue shall originate in th.e hou~e of repre~enta.tives; But although New York has no direct provision on this ~mbject as * * * nor shall. R;IlY matter or c11!'nse whatever, not llilIDe~tely rela.ting to ~cl " to general le!Tislation, her constitution allows the governor to veto. necesilary for ra1smg revenue, be m any manner blended with or annexed to a. bill ,bt' · · ti bill h' l · th fm· raising revenue. one ?r more i em~ in an appropna on , ": i e approvmg o er Several of the State constitutions contain provisions of this char- po~ons of. the b~ll, thus enabling the executive to escape the com- acter, which are equivalent to a prohibition of legislation on appro- pulsion oi ".tac~ng." . . • . priation bills, because in the olden time many of the. States did not, Th_e . constitu~10n o! North 9ar_olina adop~d ':fl 1876 con.tams no as some do not now, pass annual appropriation bills, but had standing proVIsrnn on thIB subJect. Oh10, ill her const1tut1on of 1851, has de- laws under which the annual expenditures were made. clared- ~,lorida in her Constitution of 1868 has declared- itftiJ:1 shall contain more than one subject, which shall be clearly expressed in Each Jaw enacted in the Legislature shall embrace but one subject, and matters 0 · h titut' f 18-7 h 'ded properlyconnecte<.l therewith, which subject shall be briefly expressed in the title. regon, ill er cons 10n o :J ' as proVI - constitution of Georgia, adopted in 1865, contains the follow- Every act shall embrace but one subject and matters properly connected there- The with, which subject shall be expressed. in the title. ing : Pennsylvania, by constitutional provision adopted in 1873, has de- Nor shall any la.w or ordinance be passed which refers to more than one subject- clared- matter, or contains m:.i.tter different from what is expressed in the title thereof. .onsti'tuti'on of the same State, adopted ·n , contams· the No law shall be passed except by bill; and no bill shall be so altered or amended The C 1 1868 on its passage through either House as to change its original purpose. same provision. The constitution of Illinois, adopted in 1870, pro- No bill except general appropriation bills shall be passed containing more than vides: one subject, whicn shall be clearly expressed in its title. No act hereafter passed shall embrace more than one subject, and that expressed And furthermore, the governor shall have "power to disapprove of in the title. any item or items of any bill making appropriations of money mak- And an act is made void as to so much as is not expressed in the ing distinct items," the items so disapproved to be subject to the lim- title. Indiana in her constitution of 1851 has declared : itations prescribed for other bills vetoed. Everr act shall embrace but one subject and matters properly connected there· Rhode Island, whose constitution was adopted in 1841, has no pro­ -with, which subject shall be expressed in the title. vision on this subject. Any provision in violation. of this is declared void. The constitutions adopted by South Carolina in 1865 and 1868 re­ The constitution of Iowa, adopted in 1857, contains the same pro­ .spective1y contain the following: vision as that I have just read from the constitution of Indiana. Every act or resolution having the force of law shall relate to but one subject, Kansas in her constitution of 1855 (and substantially in the consti­ and that shall be expressed in the tiile. · tutions of 1857, 1858, and 1859) provides: The constitution of Tennessee adopted in 18i0 provides- No bi11 shall become a law which embraces more than one subject, that subject Every l}Ct shall contain but one s~bject, which shall be clearly expressed iii it.s title. · t-0 be em braced in the title. Texas, by constitutions adopted respectively in 1865, 1868, and 1876, Kentucky, by her constitution of 1799, provides that revenue bills gives the governor power to veto separate items of appropriation bills­ shall originate in the house, bnt the senate may amend, not intro­ while approving others, and he is allowed twenty days after the ad­ ducing new matter not relatirrg to raising revenue. Her constitution journment of the Legislature to decide upon approval or disapproval adopted in 1850 contains a similar provision. and make proclamation thereof. The constitution of 1876 also pro­ A clause of the same kind is to be found in the constitutions of vides: Louisiana, as adopted in 1812, 1845, 1852, and 1868. As to the last No bill (except ge.neral appropriation bills which may embrace tbe various sub· constitution of Loufaiana I have no information. A similar provision jects and accounts for and on account of which moneysarea.ppropriated) shallC-On· iB found in the constitution of Maine, adopted in 1820. tain more than one subject, which shall be expressed in its title. Now I call.the attention of members, and especially of my friends And so much as is not thus expressed is to be void. I consider the from Maryland, to the constitution of that State adopted in 1776-a constitutional provisions oi Texas and Pennsylvania the best on the very good year. The section on this subject is a very strong one, subject to be found in the Union, and they completely protect the giving the reason why legislation sboald not be contained in "money several ura.nches of their government from the tyranny of legislation bills ; " namely : in money bills. That tbe senate may be at full and perfect liberty to exercise their judgment in The conntitutfou of Vermont., adopted in 1793, contains nothing on passing laws, and that they may not be compelled by the house of delegates either to reject a money bill which the emergency of affairs may require or to assent to this subject. Virginia, in her constitutions of 1850, 1864, and 1870,. some other act of legislation, in their conscience and judgment injurious to the respectively, has provided that- pubTio welfare, &c. No law shall embrace more than one object~ which shall be expressed in its title. The house of delegates is forbidden to blend with bills to raise or The constitution of West Virginia, adopted in 1861-'63, corresponds. apply money any matter not immediately relating thereto and nec­ on this subject with that of old Virginia. The constitution of 1872- essary therefor. declares that- The constitution of the same State adopted in 1851 cleclares: X o a.ct hereafter passed shall embrace more than one object, and that shall be. E-very law enacted by the Legislature shall embrace but one subject, and that embraced in its title. shall be described in the title. Anything further is declared to be void. 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 857

Wisconsin, by her constitution of 1848, provides merely that pri­ the Constitution. They call in question the veto power, and attack vate or local bills shall contain one subject. the executive department. The President's right to veto a bill is,. By this review it will be seen that the constitutions of twenty-five of course, as ::i.bsolute as the right of Congress to pass it. It is an States imperatively forbid that bills shall embrace more than one express grant of power. But Congress denies, in effect, this right subject. Some of them give emphatic reasons, such a-a republicans when we force the Executive to exercise it with peril to his conscience have urged here in debate. In some cases the provisions are minute or to his administration; when we place him in a dilemma, with the and careful, and in some the governor is permitted to veto items or alternative to yield bis political convictions or to stop the Govern­ parts of appropriation bills while approving the remainder. Five ment. In other words, sir, we virtually deny his right to veto. constitutions, ranging between 1779 and 1780 and 1831, assert the The departments, Mr. Chairman, are co-ordinat branches of the same principle and aim at the same effect by giving the initiative in Government, and under the organic law each ii:!, of course, absolutely revenue bills to the lower house and forbidding the upper house to independent of the others. " This,"· in the language of Mr. Calhoun, add any foreign matter. These may properly be included, so that we "is the beautiful and profound system established. by the Constitu­ have thirty of the thirty-eight State constitutions, ranging in their tion." I speak, sir, as a democrat-a federalist. The whole current years of birth from 1776 to 1876, under federal, democratic, whig, re­ of authority sustains me. The preservation of the rights of the publican, and other party auspices, North and South, East and West, States, which are but the reserve powers of the people, has always before, during, and since the rebellion, which give solemn and delib­ been a cardinal doctrine of the democratic party. Bat not more erate judgment against that oppressive and revolutionary combina­ so-not older in point of time, nor more sanctioned by reason and tion of "money" or '' supply" or "appropriation'' bills with general authority-than the doctrine of the limitations of the departments; legislation which the democratic party is seeking to maintain in the the freedom of each from the others and the restriction of all to their face of the wisest precedents in the history of modern parliamentary exact duties under the Constitution. Indeed, sir, the rights of the government. States and the autonomy of the departments are connected as inter­ [Here the hammer fell.] dependent, constitutional questions. Under that system, fairly en­ Mr. COX. Mr. Chairman, I perfectly agree with my friend from forced, I am not afraid of the power of the Executive. Aside from Connecticut [Mr. HAWLEY] that we ought if possible to guard our other considerations, impeachment is an all-sufficient check upon appropriation bills against these ex;traneous matters. I know that him. · all at once, on the other side of the House, since they are in a minor­ If danger shall threaten our institutions, it will not develop itself,. ity, there is an impulse to out off all" riders" from appropriation I think, in that Department. The great Carolinian to whom I have· bills. I appla.ud the diligence of the gentleman from Connecticut in already referred, in his luminous and exhaustive argument in favor making this collation of authorities. I made the same point at the of the veto power, enlarges upon its "conservative character" and extra session of this Congress, as will be found by reference to my "salutary, restraining influence;" upon its tendency to "soften sec­ speech of April 17, 1879; but I made one important reservation. tional feeling and party spirit," and to bring out "a more full and While I would not encourage a loose construction of Rule 120, while perfect response f:rom the voice of the people." Indeed, sir, Mr. Cal­ I would not pile upon appropriation bills whole codes of legislation, houn did not distrust, but rather sought to magnify the veto power. I would ·nevertheless, under a fair ruling of the Speaker, use that And this is true also of Mr. Jefferson. Although jealous and distrust­ rule for retrenchment. I would not, if I could help it, useit for other ful of all government, he bad but little apprehension from "the one­ purposes except t his : I would resort to "riders" for the purpose of ma.n power" in this country. He feared at first the Federal judiciary, repealing laws which had been enacted in the form of "riders." This "the sappers and miners of the Constitution;" but subsequently, is what I said at the extra session-to repeal a mischievous law by later in life, he expressed the gravest fears from "the turbulence and legislation upon an appropriation bill is by no means a similar case aggressions of the legislative department." This also waa Mr. Ma-di­ with its enactment. I would use this power in a negative way to son'a· opinion, and shared to a large extent by Mr. Hamilton, Judge strike down vicious legislation. Ma.'rshall,.and the earlier writers on our Government; and I may add Rule 120 has served a noble purpose. It enabled the Copunittee that this is also the recent view of the venerable and illustrious author on Appropriations in the first session of the Forty-fourth Congress to . of "The War Between the StaJies." I regret, sir, that my own humble cut down the estimates from $65,000,465.77 to 40,430,172-a saving observation and limited experience leads me to the same conclusion. of $25,000,000. The Hom~e also under this rule made a reduction of If danger ever assails our institutions from within the system, I nearly 26,000,000 upon the estimates, and a reduction of nearly fear it is more likely to come, and more dangerous when it does come, $25,000,000 upon the appropriations of the year before. Thus at the not from the veto, but from an oligarchy in Congress led away·by lowest calculation we saved that Congress about $40,000,000 as claimed party passion and inflamed with the lust of party power. We hold by the Speaker of this House and other gentlemen, basing their calcu­ the discretionary authority, necessarily indefinite, to enforce express lation upon tabular statements. , Even on the other side of the House grants by" appropriate legislation." Nothing is more liable to per­ it was confessed-notably by the present governor of Ohio, Mr. Fos­ version ·and abuse. And moreover, sir, we must consider that almost ter-that by this rule we had saved in our legislation during the Forty­ every encroachment by Congress tends to facilitate and open the way fourth Congress $21,000,000 per annum. to aggressions from the other departments ; increasing, for instance, Why did not gentlemen on the other side commence their saving the patronage of the Executive and enlarging the jurisdiction of th& after the war Y Ten years after the war they had the opportunity courts. I think, therefore, in view of these and other considerations, hadtbeyfolloweddemocratioprecedenttohavesavedover$200,000,000, that the veto power imposed by the Constitution as a check on Con­ and yet the gentleman from Maine [Mr. REED] talks about airing gress is a wise and whoiesome restraint. It should be preserved in the democratic party. He says the country is all the better when all its constitutional vigor. The Executive himself is more liable to­ it is aired. \Vhy, Mr. Chairman, if airing the extravagance of the lose than to gain by its exercise; more likely, in the nature of things, republican side of the House does it any harm we will keep on airing to relinquish than to acquire power. • it. The people like economy. If we could have saved over $200,000,000 Mr. Cb airman, I hold in my hand a valuable relic, preserved in the under t his rule, let us stand by the rule, giving it a proper interpreta­ Library of the House, an original copy of the confederate eonstitu­ tion. If the gentleman wants to go before the people with such an tion. This document-the wisdom of the South after eighty years' exhibit, let him go. experience in the old Government-is a strong and pertinent au­ He says with the hilarity which becomes such prophecies, when we thority to the point under present discussion. It enlarges the veto. go to the people we will be beaten. I do not know about that. I power. It gives the President the right t.o "approve any appropria­ never crow until I am over or out of the woods. It would not be wise tion and to disapprove any other appropriation in the same bill." It for the gentleman to talk about what will be the future. One thing embodies in an express provision the canon of parliamentary law we is sure, however, and that is that out of the black mud of radical now seek to enforce. This certainly is good democratic authority, or abomination there did arise economy, there did arise the lily of-democ­ used to be, for one side of this House; and must also commend itself­ racy. [Applause.] to the republicans here as an a.dvanced position of host ility t o "-co­ Mr. SPEER. I will withdraw my amendment for the present and ercing the Executive," or to "starving the Government." It obviates, yield to tbe amendment of the gentleman from Alabama. in the outset, every possibility of conflict between the two depart­ Mr. LOWE. I offer the following amendment as a proviso to the ments. The House, moreover, has not forgotten that President Grant third paragraph, and ask that it be reported to·the House. in his annual message in 1873 advised an amendment to the Federal The Clerk read as follows: Constitution very similar to the provision I have quoted from that of Pro'IJided, however, That no provision or amendment of a partisan character shall the confederaey. It seems that having captured that constitution in be in order. war he was wise enough. to utilize it in peace. · Mr. LOWE. The rule, Mr. Chairman, under consideration, is fair Indeed, sir, his language and purpose seem to go as far if not far­ on its face; it retrenches expenditures and favors economy. But, sir, ther in the line of executive power than was contemplaped by the­ the power it confers on the committee "to change existing law" is South. He recommends that the President be authorized to "ap­ of a doubtful, if not dangerous character. It was used during the prove so much of any measure of Congress as his judgment might extra session, may I not say abased, to intrude politics into the appro­ dictate, without approving the whole;" not appropriations alone, priation bills; and to needlessly alarm and agitate the country. We but "any measure of Congress." And why not i It would allow the· all remember, indeed, sir, we can never forget, what a gust of paBsion Executive, by his own veto, without the need of this rule, to protect. arose in the House and swept over the nation. I am sure that none himself and party, and would to that extent be an additional check of ns are willing to invite a recurrence of such scenes. I thought upon Congress. • then as I think now-reflection confirms my opinion-that politic~l This, ~lr. Chairman, has, of la.te years, been the general drift of riders on hills essential to the Government are unwise in practice, public sentiment throughout the country. Identical proviisions, or revolutiona..ny in tendency, and contrary to the spirit and genius of provisions very much to the same effect, may be found in all the.

• . 858 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 12,

recently revised State constitutions-in those of Alabama, Arkansas, and reproach and all opposition should be directed. By the rule His Illinois, Texas, Georgia, Louisiana, Maryland, Missouri, Nebraska, intended to have a sure rule for conservative legislation. The rule -Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and West Virginia; and also in itself confines legislation to the objects authorized by law. It is, the legislative enactments and parliamentary rules of a majorit.y of therefore, in its essence exa-0tly what gentlemen on that side of the the States. They are all designed, sir, and wisely designed, to pre­ House say it ought to be. In so far as it has been extended beyond serve the executive from usurpations by the Legislature. objects authorized by. law, it confers a power to reduce expenditures It may be remembered, sir, that during the extra. session I moved authorized by law. There is nothing in the rule which justifies new to strike the rider from the Army appropriation bill, because I thought legislation or increased expenditure. The gentleman from Georgia, -then, as I think now, that it was an encroachment by Congress upon [Mr. SPEER,] who was interrupted in his speech, had developed it the Executive. I sought in vain to save the Hoase and the country just enough to make the -point that this rule admits of riders to ap­ from the evil results that have since accrued in the defeat of the propriation bills. It admits of no such thing. It is the abuse of the .democratic party and the triumph of the united North over the solid rule through which you reach riders; and those who encourage the .South on sectional and sentimental issues. I never doubted the hon­ gentleman from Georgia in his opposition are those who have most est but mther small economies of this rule. I never questioned the abused it and yet declaim against it. The rule itself confines legis­ thrifty motives of the majority. I think I folly .appreciated their lation to objects authorized by law, and then confers upon this House ·position. In fact, sir, we were very well agreed on measures, but the right to reduce all expenditures already authorized by law. differed as to means. I opposed the so-called" army at the polls"­ That the rule has been abused is an open secret; and I say, with­ an imaginary, fictitious evil-and also ''political oaths" and "parti­ out fear of contradiction, that the abuse of this rule since it was .san juries;" bat neither then nor now, sir, would I seek to enforce made a rule has been all the time, until the Forty-fourth Congress, my opposition by doubtful and absurdly inadequate methods. under the control of the other side of the House. We have had no To be candid, sir, we all know that the extra session was, at bot­ opportunity to abase it, and there is no necessity for any democrat to tom, a party fight for power-a struggle for position in 1880 between feel himself embarrassed by an allegation that he has abused this .a Congress of one party and an Executive of the other. The issues rule. The democratic party have not had power in this Honse for have passed away as if they had never been, coming and going at twenty years nearly prior to the Forty-fourth Congress. When the the instance of a few men in this House. But it may be well, in the latter part of this rule was adopted they obtained power in that Con­ calmness of this moment, to inquire what interest the people, the gress, when this rule was modified and used to retrench expenditures. country at large, had in that struggle. If I am not ~reatly mistaken In so far as it has been loosely construed by the democratic House, they had this interest, from first to last, whether ot one side or the wo have but followed the acknowledged established precedent of -0ther, to keep each department within the prescribed limits of the gentlemen on the other side of this House when the whole Govern­ Constitution and laws. The mere contest for party power seems over, ment was controlled by the republican party. And it seems to me but, sir, that paramount and abiding interest remains. That is the out of all reason that gentlemen should place their opposition upon only concern I feel in the result of this debate and in the final action an allegation so totally unfounded in fact as that which is alleged -of the House. that these "riders" to appropriation bills are part of the policy of Mr. Chairman, it is objected that my proviso gives whoever may be .the democratic party. It will be well to adhere to the original rule, .Speaker the right to judge what constitutes a "partisan amendment." as modified in the Forty-fourth Congress, and to the policy of re­ I am aware of the apparent force of this objection. The power to trenchment and reform then inaugurated. -decide is discretionary, and therefore indefinite; but I am reluctant [Here the hammer fell.] to believe that any one chosen to the high position of Speaker would Mr. SPEER. I move as a substitute for the amendment of the basely stultify himself before the House and the country. It will, of gentleman from Alabama [Mr. LOWE] the following: coarse, be a matter of personal judgment and conscience. But in the After the word "order," next to the last line, insert the words: "but it shall be light of this contemporaneous debate, no honest mind could well doubt in order to strike out any sum of money in an appropriation bill and insert a less as to what is meant by an" amendment of a partisan character." Bot sum.'' if by possibility any doubt should arise, we would not be remediless; Mr. SPEER took the floor and concluded his speech. [See page 854.] we would have a remedy in an appeal to the House. And that rem­ Mr. BLOUNT. Mr. Chairman, my colleague [Mr. SPEER] unfortu­ .edy, under the circumstances, would be absolute and conclusive; for nately confines himself to a single illustration of the use of this rule, if the members voting on the appeal should actually divide on the and bases his entire argument on that single condition of facts. The lines of party, that fact of itself would ascertain the truth, vindicate question is whether there shall be any change of this rule, and whether the minorit.y, and sustain the subsequent veto of the Executive. or not yon shall legislate on an appropriation bill at all. That is the But, sir, I am not wedded to my own proposition. I would gladly question. Gentlemen may attempt to devise language with great in­ abandon it for something better. I should prefer to retain the eco­ genuity, but when they come to put it into practice it will be found nomic features of the rule with my amendment as a proviso against at last it is but the simple question whether we can legislate on ap­ perversion and abuse. But, if necessary to enforc~ the general views propriation bills. I have expressed, I will vote for the amendment of the gentleman My colleague suggests in his amendment we may legislate to reduce .from Pennsylvania, [Mr. CLYMER,] or for the amendment of the gen­ the amount. Suppose that be adopted, and you provide for reduc­ tleman from Georgia, [Mr. SPEER,] and act outright with those who tion on appropriation bills of the compensation of postmasters, re­ oppose all general legislation on these bills. I believe a majority of ducing the amount appropriated for their salaries f Suppose you the committee desire to settle this vexed question now, as far as the reduce the amount to be paid to railroad companies Suppose you rules can settle it. An amendment bo the Constitution such as that provide for reduction in any branch of the public service f Now, will ·adopted by the confederacy, or as that recommended by President any gentleman undertake to say that this Government is not bound -Orant, would no doubt be the most efficient remedy; but in the ab­ by the amount of compensation which the law prescribes, and not ·sence of such provision I favor the next best thing that can be done the amount voted in the appropriation bill~ The result of such a. by the House. I trust both sides will come to some agreement to course, in providin~ not for a change of the law, but simply as my abandon the vicious and dangerous practices which of Jate years, colleague :proposes for reducing the amount appropriaited would cre­ 'Under both parties, have grown out of this rule, and to return to the ate only a. deficiency of appropriation which would have to be sup­ normal and legitimate methods of legislation. plied afterward. The p~rty whose compensation was reduced would Mr. McLANE. Mr. Chairman, I rise to oppose the amendment and come here andsay, "Your law prescribes I shallhave a, certain salary support the original rule. I am very much struck with the fact that for the discharge of the duties of the office which I hold, and you .all the opposition to this rule, although it develops the charge of par­ have not in the appropriation bill provided enough to pay that sal­ tisanship against those who advocate it, I am struck by the fact-I ary." That is the attitude in which we would be placed bytheadop­ ·say, that the whole spirit of the opposition to the rnle is a partisan tion of the amendment of my colleague; and if we should reduce the spirit. The rule itself is the rule of this House under the Const itu­ appropriations without changing the law, we should be constantly tion of the United States, and it might with perfect propriety allow asked to pay claims for the balance of the amount due under the law. all legislation on appropriation bills, so far as the Senate is concerned, Gentlemen on the other side suggest we should provide there should and so far as the Executive is concerned. The Senate now do permit he no partisan legislation allowed on appropriation bills. What is legisfation on appropriation bills and nobody ha.a ever contended that partisan legislation f Jlas it any technical signi fl.cation How do we the rules of the two bodies ought to be uniform ; or that we hn.d any understand there is. a party issue upon any proposition f That is to right to complain that the Senate permitted original legislation on be developed hereafter when it is brought before the House for action. .appropriation bills, provided we of the House enjoyed oar right to Differences cannot occur until the question has been presented. originate the title. This right to originate is our only constitutional Gentlemen may resort to all the ingenuity of which they are capa­ right; that once settled, each House is left to its own discretion as to ble, and yet they come back at fast to whether or not we shall legis­ how it shall regulate itself in the details of legislation. late on appropriation bills. Let us see what we find there. My The truth is that all that can be said against the rale is against colleague from Georgia has supposed a case full of dire disaster as he the administration of the rule. It is the abuse of the rule and not thinks. The gentleman from Maine [Mr. REED] said the extra ses­ the rule itself; and gentlemen who now oppose the rule have through­ sion, brought about by the unwisdom of the democratic party, was -out the whole history of this country, so far as its political organiza­ the result of just such legislation. Now, if the conn~•ry condemns our tion is concerned, set the example of excessive abuse of tho rule. action what better conservative force does he want. So far as my col­ The gentlemen on the othel" side of the House have for twenty years league's fears are concerned, I undertake to say the time will never ~ven the very construction to the rule which they now oppose. It come when this Government will perish by the failure to pass appro­ is the abuse of the· rule, and the abase of the rule as developed by p1'iation bills. No gen ~ l e man here believes it. the republican party for the last twenty years, to which all criticisru My colleague gave an instance from the post-office service. Let 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 859 me state to him that postmasters of this country, some of them, under Mr. HAYES. I desire to make a privileged motion. If we are not an honest administration of the law, were getting salaries of 200. to get a vote at this time, I move that the committee rise for the pur­ By a dishonest construction of that law, and by a false return and pose of obtaining an order from the House to close debate. fraudulent sale of postage-stamps, those salaries were in some in­ Mr. HOOKER. Can the gentleman make that motion while I am stances run up to three or four thousand dollars instead of what the on the floor 'f law prescribed. There had been no legislation on it. When we came The CHAIRMAN. He cannot while the gentleman from Mississippi to consider the wants of the Government service we inserted legis­ is on the floor. lation which saved on that item alone from eight hundred to nine Mr. GARFIELD. Is not debate exhausted on the pending amend­ hundred thousand dollars. And so in reference to railroads. In the ments f Forty-fourth Congress we saved over a million of dollars in compensa­ The CHAIBMAN. Debate has been exhausted upon the amend­ tion to railroads. In the Forty-fifth Congress we saved still further by ment offered by the gentleman from Alabama, [Mr. LOWE,] and also reducing the pay of railroads for transportation of mails to the extent upon the substitute proposed by the gentleman from Georgia, [Mr. of a half million of dollars by legislation, under this rule, on appro­ SPEER.] But the gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. HOOKER] has been priation bills. Such items have been running for years and years recognized to move to strike out the last word of the substitute. through tho appropriation bills, and I undertake to say that there has Upon that amendment there may be two speeches, one in support of not been less than $100,000,000 saved to the people of this country by the amendm~nt and one in reply. this kind of legislation. I hope this House, therefore, will not deny Mr. GARFIELD. Is not that an amendment in the third degree T to itself the power that every preceding House of Representatives Mr. HOOKER. It is not, according to the construction of the rule has possessed since the foundation of the Government. For one, I run that has governed the committee heretofore. willing to trust the representatives of the people. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Mississippi moves to .amend [Here the hammer fell.] the substitute-treating the substitute a.san independent proposition. Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. I move that the committee rise for His amendment, therefore, is not an amendment in the third degree. the purpose of obtaining au order from the House to close debate The gentleman from Mississippi is entitled to the floor and will pro­ upon this clause. ceed. Mr. GARFIELD. Let us take a vote now. Mr. HOOKER. In answer to what has fallen from the gentleman Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. If the committee will agree to vote from Georgia [Mr. SPEER] in support of thesnbstitute he has offored, now I will withdraw my motion. and in answer to what has fallen from my friend from Texas, let me The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Texas [Mr. MILLS] is on say that I think the committee had better possess itself of the rule the floor. After he has spoken the Chair will decide that further de­ which has been reported to the House and ascertain in what respect bate will not be in order. the substitute proposes to change it. I will not weary the committee Mr. HOOKER. Can the Chair decide that until a.n order is given by reading i.t. But I will state that the rule as now reported was by the House to close debate Y adopted on the motion of a gentleman from Indiana who stood upon The CHAIRMAN. The Chair can decide that there cannot be fur­ this floor as probably one of the soundest and most practical legislat­ ther debate until a vote has been taken upon some one of the amend­ ors that ever served the country on either side of this House-I allude ments. to Mr. Holman, of Indiana. He was the author of this amendment Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. I withdraw the motion that the as it now stands in the rules as they now are, and as it stands in the committee rise. rules now reported by this committee. The object and purpose of it Mr. MILLS. I shall vote most cheerfully for the substitute offered was to restrict the abuse which ha-0. been made by the republican·party by the gentleman from Georgia, [Mr. SPEER.] I voted in the Forty­ of the power to place riders upon appropriation bi !ls; and this amend­ fourth Congress, when the party on this side of the House came first ment offered by Mr. Holman and ingrafted upon the rules of the into power, for the amendment to the rule which it is now sought to House in the Forty-fourth Congress, and now reported by the Com­ repeal. I have seen some beneficial results from that rule, and I have mittee on Rules, requires three conditions before there can be a change seen some injurious results from it. I will not now stop to draw a of law upon appropriation bills. comparison between the good and the bad and sum up the balance There must be three things: primarily there must be a proposition of accounts. If it has been a good amendment to the rule, I think it to change existing law; next, the subject-matter must be germane has served out the period of its usefulness, and ought to be repealed. to the bill under consideration; and, thirdly, it must look to the re­ I have two or three strong objections to that rule. Under the de­ duction of expenditures. Therefore under the rule as it now exists, cisions of the Chair anything that is at all akin to the question before and under the role as reported by the Committee on Roles, so far the House on an appropriation bill, if it reduces expenditure one from the power of the Appropriations Committee being enlarged by farthing, is legitimate to be offered as an amendment. Now, I do not the amendment to the rules offered by Mr. Holman, it was restricted object to the power or privilege which this rule gives to the House and cut down and limited and restrained. That amendment had not of reducing an appropriation, for that is granted in the amendment for its function or its purpose the enlargement of the power of the of the gentleman from Georgia. But the part of the rule that I Committee on Appropriations. It limited ·the power from what it think is injurious to good legislation is that which authorizes the had been when the republican party had control, when the power bringing in of every possible subject and placing it upon appropria­ existed of offering any and every proposition by way of amendment. tion bills. It gives the Committee on Appropriations full sweep over It limited it to the extent that it required the proposition to be ger­ the whole laws of the United States. It breaks down every barrier. mane to the subject-matter of the hill and to limit expenditures. To It authorizes that committee to dictate every issue that is presented that extent only could any proposition be attached to an appropria­ to the people of the United States. It matters not, sir, what may be tion bill changing existing Jaw. - the public opinion of the United States on any question; it is the But I am opposed to a change of the rule for a higher consideration party leaders of this House who have the bringing before the House than that. It has sometimes been asserted that the power of the the appropriation bills, and if they desire to thwart that public House of Representatives as established by our Constitution was not opinion, they have but to array their party upon this floor upon the analogous to the power of the English House of Commons over the question they may choose to make the issue and sound the bugle, and subject of granting money. I deny that that is a true construction then the party is irrevocably committed to it. of the power of this House under the Constitution of this country. Gentlemen speak of the great victories of retrenchment under this I would be sorry to vote for any measure or any proposition which rule, but they fail to tell us where taxation upon the people has been should look to the stripping of this House of the right and the power reduced, and that is the very soul of retrenchment. I ask gentlemen to say that which, under the Constitution, this department of the to tell me where a farthing of taxation ha.s been reduced under the Government alone can say: when and how and where and under influence of this role. The people have been complaining of an un­ what circumstances money shall be taken from the pnblic Treasury. just system of taxation ever since we have had control of this Gov­ Any proposition which looks to a reduction of the power of this ernment; and our party, when it went into the canvass in 1876, House, to a restraining of the power of the House, to a. limiting of the arraigned a system of collecting the customs revenue as one that power of the House over the question of granting the public money, took from the pockets of the laboring people of this country five dol­ ought never to be adopted by the House whatever party may be in lars for every one that it carried into the Treasury. But gentlemen power. committed to that doctrine cannot point to one single solitary bill I oppose this amendment n.nd favor the rulo as it now stands, be­ proposin~ to reduce that taxation which has been brought before the cause that rule does give to the House the power to say that existing House with any hope of obtaining its passage. • law may be changed by an amendment offered to an appropriation It has been found that upon this single question of retrenchment bill, if that amendment be germane to the subject-matter of the bill of expenditures we have a united party, and hence it becomes neces­ and tends also to the reduction of expenditures. sary to sn.ve this one plank npon which a united party may stand. This House, under the Constitution and the laws, a.Jone has the At the same time, the section from which I come is to be paraded be­ power to origina.te money bills. It is said by gentlemen arguing this fore the people of the United States every time an appropriation bill question that this House would have the right to put a veto on the is presented to this House, and blows must be dealt upon the heads action of the Senate and n. veto on the Executive. Sir, I .admit that of the peoplo of that section in connection with the various measures is so; a.nd I say with the author quoted by a. gentleman on the other proposed upon appropriation bills. If victory results from this, it is side, the great Calhoun, when interpreting this question, that this not for their benefit; but if defeat·come, every friend withdraws from exercise of the veto power by the one House over the other, and by them, and all the blows fall solitary and alonEl upon their heads. the Executive over both, only serves to strike another chord in the

[Here the hammer fell.] popular voice1 and to bring it out in more full and perfect harmony. Mr. HOOKER rose. [Here the hammer fell.] 860 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 12,,

Mr. WHIITHORNE. I will detain the committee but a moment in which all the linen of the House is to be tumbled. To prevent or two only. I am in favor of the proposed modification of this this is the object of my amendment, and I believe that if adopted it. rule. I believe it is demanded by the present interests of the country will execute itself. and much more by its future interests. Let us, for a moment, look Mr. TUCKER. As I understand the amendment of the gentleman at this question without regarding it as a partisan question. What from Ohio, it will authorize in any appropriation bill the insertion is the object of all rules 7 It is to secure the intelligent and prompt of a. less sum than the amount authorized by law-- dispatch of the public busineslil to be brought before a legislative Mr. GARFIELD. Yes.z sir. body. What is the necessity for committees of the House T It Hi to Mr. TUCKER. But will it authorize the striking out of the whole so divide the labors of that body that its work may be brought in sum7 before the House in an intelligent shape, as the result of the labors of Mr. GARFIELD. In striking out you may put in anything you those committees. please. You can strike out $5,000, for instance, and insert zero. Now, if all the business of the House is to be subject to and con­ [Here the hammer fell.] trolled by one committee, what necessity is there for dividing that Mr. McMAHON. Mr. Chairman, I had thought that the whole ob­ work among the several committees 'I If the Committee on Appro­ ject of referring an appropriation bill to the Committee of t,he Whole priations is to determine the character of the legislation to be pre­ House was to enable that committee to increase or diminish the sented to this House, then why organize committees upon any other amount of appropriations. It seems to me, therefore, a very novel subject than that of appropriations T . proposition that we shall confer upon the Committee of the Whole It is said that this proposition, if adopted, will deny to the repre- the right to diminish the amounts proposed to bf} appropriated. I , sentatives of the people the right to withhold appropriations. I ask, understand that the act of appropriation lies in the breast of the is it necessary to have a rider ~m an appropria.tion bill in order to get Committee of the Whole or of the House; that how much shall be. me to withhold my assent from it Y If the Army is used to oppress the appropriated is always an open question, and does not involve any people of the United States, is it necessary that I should affix a po­ question of legislation. I understand very well that if in an annual litical or legislative rider to the Army appropriation bill 'I Sir, it is appropriation bill we appropriate, for example, $3,500 as salary for my duty under the Constitution, if I believe the appropriations for an officer who under the law is entitled to $5,000, unless we expressly the maintenance of the Army are being used illegally, tyrannically, say "this appropriation sha.ll be in full for salary for the coming fiscal and corruptly, to refuse to vote for the regular Army appropriation year," a deficiency is created, and a claim against the Government bill when it is offered to me for my assent or dissent. A rider on. might be enforced in the Court of Claims. A more insidious proposi­ such a bill, therefore, is not necessary. tion in the interest of t.he office-holders of this country was• never A word or two now aa to this question of riders upon appropriation presented in the House of Representatives than the proposition now bills. The, experience of every State LE»gislature is that corruptions pending. of the grossest and basest character mako their way into the le~isla­ And I say to my young friend from Georgia [Mr. SPEER] that when tion of the country through the means of appropriation bills and. om­ he starts a new proposition here in the legislation of this House, it nibus bills. It is by means of riders that omnibus bills are created, ought to make him shake in his boots when he finds the whole repub­ and it is by omnibus bills that more than half of the Legislatures•of lican party ready to stand sponsor in this new baptism. [Laughter.} the States of this country have been corrupted. Mr. SPEER. I ma.y be young, but I trust I am of the number of In the interest of my country and in the interest of my party, I beg those whose follies cease with their youth. [Laughter and applause.] gentlemen to look far into the future, and consider if, when you give Mr. McMAHON. A very good answer, Mr. Chairman ; but the. to the Appropriations Committee the power to put legislative riders trouble is that the whole of the party on the other side of the House upon appropriation bills, considering the immense growth of indi­ applaud the gentleman's present position; and I say that when the· vidual and corporate interests of this country, it will be long before republicans of this House unanimously support a proposition offered the corporations of the country through your Appropriations Com­ by a democrat, that man ought to consider," What have I done to. mittee will control and direct the legislative bodies ot: this country draw down upon me the unanimous applause of the other side of into a ruinous course which will eventually change the character of this House T" [Laughter.] our institutions. Now, Mr. Chairman, as a member of the Appropriations Committee Let us stand by the old traditions of the legislative fathers of our I want to disavow all desire for the right on the part of that commit­ country. Let ua stand by the experience of our State Legislatureit tee t.o put one word of legislation upon an appropriation bill. But I in the different States, where constitutions have been amended so as do want to reserve to the people's representatives in the Committee to prevent riders on appropriation bills and to prevent omnibus bills. of the Whole House the right to retrench the expenditures of this. Sir, let us give each of our legislative bodies and their committees Government upon a proper occasion. I do not care that the Commit­ their proper functions. tee on Appropriations shall have the power to report one particle of [Hern the hammer fell.] general legislation to this House. I do not want that power. I do. The question being taken on the pro f01·ma amendment of Mr. not want to be abused for such legislation. I think the Committee HOOKER, it was not agreed to. on Appropriations has been misled into putting into bills general Mr. GARFIBLD. A8 an amendment to the substitute of the gen­ legislation. But when a democrat comes before this House and says tl-eman from Georgia, I ofter the following: to this Committee of the Whole House, thhi representative body I see But it sball be in order to strike out any sum of money appropriated in a bill before me here, we shall have no right when we are legislating and and insert a less sum. passing appropriation bills to say, when we want to, that we shall re­ I offer this to test the sense of the Committee of the Whole. I offer trench expenditures, to say that, sir, is for the democratic party to it, I trust, with no other rnterest in view than the good of this House, furl at once the :fla.g of retrenchment and reform. It is giving up all the good of my party, not as a. minority, but the good of my party we have claimed before the people. It is giving up the standard we if it should be in the majority-the good, as I believe, of any party raised when we went before the people. And when my young friend whether in the minority or in the majority; for, in my view, it is the considers tha't view of it, let me say to him, he himself gives up the interest of every party that we should seal up, so far as we can, the cause of the party in the next presidential fight. If we strike it out fountain of the· bitter waters of strife, and put ourselves in the line we confess to the people of this country we cannot make the fight in of plain, fair, business work, while at the same time we protect the the interest of economy any more. Committee on Appropriations against the assaults which it is liable to Now, I want to say to that side of the House their unanimity on a. receive from all quarters unless some such protection~ given to it. question like this surprises me. I can only accept it as one of those late I ask a vote on the amendment. confessions which always comes to the republican party when it is. Mr. BLOUNT. I wish to ask the gentleman a question. Would out of power. When it was in po"'°er it was one of the worst which not the effect o~ his amendment be just this: if the salary, for in­ ever had control of this Government. [Laughter on the republican stance, of a cabinet officer should be reduced on an appropriation side of the Honse.) I hope this will not come out of my time. bill, without any change of the existing law, would there not simply Mr. ANDERSON. I rise to a point of order. · be a deficiency as to the balance of salary for which we would be The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state it. bound afterward to appropriate Y · Mr. ANDERSON. I wish to inquire of the gentleman from Ohio Mr. GARFIELD. If a majority of the House and the Senate re­ whether in applying the party lash he is actfag a.a a member of the· duced the appropriation for salary in any appropriation bill, the same Committee on Appropriations or as a member of the democratic party, majority could go to work and in a separate law make that change or both 7 When he is exercising the party lash on that side of the operative by legalizing in the form of independent legislation what House let nie suggest that he has no right to whip ua on this side. the judgment of Congress had declared in an appropriation bill. • Mr. McMAHON. There comes the old appeal-the party lash I the My own belief is that the officers of this Government ought to be Appropriations Committee! I think the lash must have struck the safe for more than twelve months against sudden and unexpected gentleman himself, as he is the first one to cry out. [Laughter.] assault8 upon their salaries by means of the annual appropriation Mr. ANDERSON. Not much. bills. To change the salaries of public officers, there ought to be re­ Mr. McMAHON. My honored friend from the State of Ohio, when quired a little more notice than the simple, accidental change of an a member of the Committee on Appropriations, never stopped at put­ appropriatfon in one of the annual appropriation bills. ting any political legilillation on any appropriation bill. Now we have In conclusion, I will simply say that this amendment' saves what contracted and narrowed the rule. We say any legislation that goes the Speaker of thisHouse has said wasthemainobjectof the present on an appropriation bill must be germane to the subject under con­ rule, the reduction of expenditures. Everything else is excluded. It sideration. enables·us to reduce expenses, but it does not enable us to make the Mr. GARFIELD. The gentleman will allow me- Appropriations Committee the Moab, the wash-pot of the country, Mr. McMAHON: In one moment. Secondly, that it shall retrench. 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 861 expenditures. Is not that a good rnle T Do yon want, gentlemen on the two-thirds vote. It may be suggested here that we have the motion <>ther side of the House, to go to the country and say that is not a good to suspend the rules, but yon cannot do that ; for you cannot get the rule Y [Cries of "Yes!" ''Yes!" on the republican side of the House.] floor to make the motion to suspend the rules for your amendment, All right, then, put yourself upon the record ; but I say to gentlemen however much yon may want it if it changes existing law.

• 862 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 12,

Mr. REAGAN. I thought I had obtained the floor. The motion was agreed to upon a. division-ayes 114, noes 34. The CH.AIRMAN. The gentleman from Ohio is a member of the So the committee rose; and the Speaker having resumed the chair, Committee on Rules, and in accordance with the practice heretofore Mr. CARLISLE reported that, pursuant to the order of the House, the has been recognized by the Chair. Committee of the Whole on the state of the U:nion had had under Mr. GARFIELD. I am very sure no gentleman here on either side consideration the proposed revision of the rules reported from the of the House would be willing to deceive any of his associates by a. Committee on Rules and had come to no resolution thereon. form of words or to do anything in the nature of coming it over Mr. BLACKBURN. I move that the House now adjourn. another by a trick of speech. That I am sure nobody wants to do. The motion was a~reed to; and accordingly (at four o'clock and The only objection that was raised, as I understood, by the Speaker five minutes p. m.) tne House adjourned. to the amendment that I offered was that it only allowed the reduc­ tion of amounts; but it might be it left a deficiency; that it did not PETITIONS, ETC. change the law as to the reduced amounts. In so far that statement The following memorials, petitions, and other papers were laid on of the case was right. And here as I understand it we are offered an the Clerk's desk, under the rule, and referred as follows, viz : amendment with the intent just to cover that case. Now I am will­ By Mr. ANDERSON: The petition of ex-soldiers and sailors of the ing to vote for an amendment that covers just t}lat case, namely to United States, residents of Doniphan County, Kansa~, for the passage say that it shall be in order to reduce the amounts of money required of a law giving to them the amount of the difference between the by law and to that extent to change existing law. If this amendment value of gold and greenbacks at the time of their payment-to the does that I will vote for it; but my friend has got in the word "ex­ Committee on Military Affairs. penditures" instead of "amounts of money" as I think it should be. By Mr. ARMFIELD: The petition of citizens of Winston, North Mr. WARNER. Are not amounts of money to be expended expend­ Carolina, for the erection of a Federal court-house in that city-to the itures f Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. Mr. GARFIELD. Yes; but an expenditure is not al ways an·amount By Mr. BARBER : The petition of John Harris, Thomas D. Whit­ of money. The gentleman propo::ies the words- more, and others, of Lake County, Illinois, for revision of the patent Except that it shall be in order to reduce expenditures pl'Ovided for by existing laws-to the Committee on Patents. law. Also, the petition of Nathaniel Vose and others, of Lake County, Now I will offer a bill to abolish the present courts of the United Illinois, for just transportation laws-to the Committee on Commerce. States and establish a new judicial system and in that I will provide By Mr. BELTZHOOVER: The petition of 240 soldiers, of York that the new courts shall cost $10 less than the old. Have I not intro­ County, Pennsylvania, against the passage of Bentley's sixty-district duced a bill that will reduce the judicial expenditures Y pension bill-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Mr. W .ARNER. I will accept the gentleman's suggestion and make By Mr. BLACKBURN: ·The petition of citizens of Scott County, it " amounts of expenditure." Kentucky, relative to rates of transportation, &c.-to the Committee Mr. GARFIELD. "Amounts of money" is the proper phrase. Let on Commerce. the gentleman and let the House say it shall be in order to change Also, the petitions of citizens of Henry County, Kentucky, and of existing law so far as to reduce the actual amounts of money. other citizens of Kentucky, of similar import-to the same committee. Mr. WARNER. I will accept that amendment. By Mr. CALDWELL: The petitions of M. M. Sloss, W. F. 'White­ Mr. GARFIELD. If the gentlema.n will strike out the word "ex­ sides, and others, and of E. B. Head and J. D. Stuart and others, citi­ penditures".and insert" amounts of money provided for by existing zens of Kentucky, for legislation regulating charges for freight and law," then I will vote for his amendment. passengers on railroads-to the same committee. l\Ir. WARNER. I will accept that amendment. By Mr. COX: The petition of district superintendents of the Life­ Mr. SPEER. I will accept the amendment of the gentleman from Saving Service, that their salaries may be increased and made to com­ Ohio [Mr. WAR~"'ER] in lieu of my amendment. pare with the salaries of supervising inspectors of steamboats and Mr. REAGAN. I rise to offer an amendment to the amendment. others whose duties and responsibilities are of less magnitude and of Mr. SPEER. I withdraw my acceptance of the amendment of the far less importance-to the same committee. gentleman from Ohio. By Mr. CRAVENS: Memorial of Charles F. Pensel & Co. and other The CHAIRMAN. Since the gentleman from Georgia withdraws firms of Little Rock, Arkansas, for the enactment of a law prohibit­ his acceptance of the amendment no further amendment is in order. ing interstate traffic in adulterated merchandise-to the Committee The question is upon the adoption of the amendment proposed by on Manufactures. the gentleman from Ohio, [Mr. WARNER,] as modified, as a substi­ By Mr. HORACE DAVIS: The petition of William Alvord, presi­ tute for the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Georgia dent of the Bank of California, for the repeal of the law which im­ [Mr. SPEER] to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Ala­ poses a tax on bank deposits-to the Committee on Banking and bama, [Mr. LOWE.] Currency. The Clerk will read the amendment of the gentleman from Ohio By Mr. ERRETT: The petition of wholesale grocers of Pittsburgh, as now modified. Pennsylvania, against the adulteration of food and for legislation t o The Clerk read as follows : prevent it-to the Committee on Manufactures. Strike out all after the word "except" and insert: By Mr. EWING: The petition of ex-soldiers of Ohio, for the passage That it shall be in order to reduce the amounts of money provid.ed for by exist­ of the Weaver soldier bill-to the Committee on Military Affairs. ing law and covered by the bill, and to that end only to pbange the law. Also, three petitions of citizens of Ohio, for the revision of the The CHAIRMAN. It has been sug?,ested that the word "extent" patent laws-to the Committee on Patents. be inserted instead of the word "end. ' Also, four petitions of citizens of Ohio, for legislation regulating Mr. WARNER. Who makes that suggestion T interstate commerce-to the Committee on Commerce. The CHAIRMAN. It has been ma-de by several gentlemen. By Mr. FRYE: The petition of the Portland and Ogdensburgh Mr. WARNER. I see no objection to that. Let the Clerk make Railroad Company, of Maine, for a reduction of the duty on steel th~~~~ • rails-to the Committee of Ways and Means. Mr. BAKER. I would like to hear the amendment as it now stands. By Mr. GEDDES: The petition of Edward Bun;on, George A. Irwin, The amendment, as modified; was again read. and others, of Knox County, Ohio, for the n.mendment of the patent Mr. WARNER. I ask consent to add the words "on an appropri­ laws so as to make the manufacturer or vendor only responsible for ation bill." infringement-to the Committee on Patents. Mr. ROBESON. I would like the gentleman to insert two or three Also, the petitions of Esli J. Lazier, Jacob Miller, and others, citi­ words, so that it will read "to change the effect of existing law." zens of Holmes County, Ohio, for laws to alleviate the oppressions of Mr.WARNER. I would like to know of the gent1eman if changing transportation monopolies that now control the interstate commerce a law is not changing its effect! [Cries of "Vote!" "Vote!"] of the country-to the Committee on Commerce. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment of the gen­ Also, the petition of Edward Burson, George A. Irwin, and others, tleman from Ohio [Mr.WARNER] as modified. of Knox County, Ohio, of similar import-to the same committee. Mr. WARNER. I ask for tellers. By Mr. HILL: The petitions of Charles Bourn and others, of James · The CHAIRMAN. If there be no objection tellers will be ordered. M. Hough nnd 100 others, and of Stephen Eldredge and 100 others, There was no objection ; and the Chair appointed Mr. BLACKBURN citizens of Fulton County, Ohio, for the passage of a hw regulating ~nd Mr. WARNER to act as tellers. freights on railroads-to the same committee. The committee divided; and the tellers reported that there were- Also, the petitions of James l\I. Hough and 100 others, of G. P. ayes 124, noes 79. · Campbell and others, of Henry Eldridge and others, citizens of Ful­ So the substitute moved by Mr.WARNER for the amendment moved ton County, Ohio, for a change in the patent laws-to the Committee by lli. SPEER was adopted. on Patents. Mr. BLACKBURN. I give notice that I shall callfor the yeas and By Mr. HOSTETLER: The petition of John Calvert, for pay for nays in the House. expenses incurred and for the care of his son William P. Calvert, who The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment as amended. became insane while a United States soldier-to the Committee on Mr. WARNER. My amendment has been agreed to f Military Affairs. · The CHAIRMAN. The particular amendment of the gentleman By Mr. JONES: The petition of I. N. Sawyer and others, of Gal­ from Ohio [Mr. WARNER] has been agreed to. veston, Texas, for the abolition of compulsory pilotage-to the Com­ Mr. ROBESON. But that amendment has not yet been adopted as mittee on Commerce. a part of the rules. By Mr. KEIFER: The petition of HoraceN. Taylor and 73 others, Mr. BLACKBURN. I move that the committee now rise. soldiers of the late war, of New Cadisle and vicinity, Clark County, 1880. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 863

Ohio, for the passage of the Weaver soldier bill-to the Committee York, on the subject of yellow fever-to the Committee on the Origin, on Military Affairs. Introduction, and Prevention of Epidemic Diseases in the United Also, the petitions of W. H. Glatfelter and 43 others, and of E. J. States. Williamson and 28 others, citizens of Greene County, Ohio, for the enactment of laws for the alleviation of oppressions imposed by transportation monopolies that control interstate commerce-to the Committee on Commerce. HOUSE OF. REPRESENTATIVES. Also, the petitiona of E. J. ·williamson and 36 others, of W. H. Glatfelter and 41 others, citizens of Greene County, Ohio, for an amend­ _FRIDAY, February 13, 1880. ment of the patent laws so as to make the mannfacturer and vendor The House met at twelve o'clock m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. of patented articles alone responaible for infringements, and to pro­ W. P. HARRISON, D. D. tect from penal t.v any person manufacturing for his own use any pre­ The Journal of yesterday was read and approved. viously patented article, if he is not cognizant of the existence of letters-patent which he may have infringed-to the Committee on MILITARY ACADE....'1Y APPROPRIATION BILL. Patents. Mr. FORNEY. I am directed by the Committee on Appropriations, By Mr. LE FEVRE : The petitions of C. Gierhart and 22 others, of to whom was referred the bill of the House (H. R. No. 3015) making Auglaize County, Ohio, and of L. T. Lewis and 30 others, of Mercer appropriations for the support of the Military Academy for the fiscal County, Ohio, of similar import-to the.same committee. year ending June 30, 1881, an<,l for other purposes, together with the Also, the petition of C. Gierhart and2'2 others, of Auglaize County, Senate amendments thereto, to report the same back to the House Ohio, and of L. T. Lewis and 30 others, of Mercer County, Ohio, for with a recommendation that the amendments of the Senate be not relief against transportation monopolies-to the Committee on Com­ concurred in. merce. The question was taken; and the amendments of the Senate were By Mr. EDWARD L. MARTIN: The petitions of G. W. Morsey and not concurred in. others, and of W. L. Blanchard and others, citizens of the State of Mr. FORNEY moved to reconsider the vote jast taken; and also Delaware, for legislation regulating interstate commerce-to the same moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the ta.l>le. committee. · The latter motion was agreed to. By 1ilr. McCOID: The petition of Arabella Coddington, for a pen­ INDIAN DEFICIENCY APPROPRIATIONS. sion-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Mr. WELLS. I am directed by the Committee on Appropriations By Mr. McGOWAN: The petition of F. H. Fisher, C. E. Swain, and to report back with a favorable recommendation the bill (H. R. No. 104 others, citizens of Branch County, Michigan, for a law to regulate 4432) making additional appropriations for tho support of certain freights and unjust discriminations by transportation companies­ Indian tribes for the year ending June 30, 1880, and to recommend that to the Committee on Commerce. the same be considered at this time. It is important that the bill Also, the petition of F. H. Fisher, C. E. Swain, and 104 others, of should be passed at an early day. It jg a very short bill, and I ask Brauch County, Michigan, that the patent laws may be so amended that it be considered in the House as in Committee of the Whole. that the manufacturer or vendor alone shall be held responsible for The bill was read, a-s follows : infringement-to the Committee on Patents. Be it enacted, lf;c., That the following sums be, and they are hereby, appropriated, By :Mr. McKENZIE: The peti_tion of citizens of McLean County, out of-any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated. for the purpose of Kentucky, for the passage of such laws as will prevent fluct uations paying the urgently necessary additional expenses of certain Indian tribes, namely: in freights and unjust discriminations in transportation charges-to For care arid support of the Pawnee Indians, in the Indian 'l'erritory, 15.000; the Committee on Commerce. For care and support of the Shoshone Indians, in W yoming Territory, 15.000; For subsistence and ~hilizationof the Arapahoes, Cheyennes, Apaches, Kiowas, By Mr. MILLER: The petition of George E. Herrick and others, Comanches, a.IJ.d Wiohitas who have been collected upon the reservation set apart for a change in the patent laws-to the Committee on Patents. for their n,se and occupation, $80,000; By Mr. MONROE: The petition of J. R. Halcomb and 33 others, For subsistence and civilization of Nez Perces of Joseph's Band, in the Indian Territory, $10,000 ; citizens of York, Medina County, Ohio, for the passage of an a-0t reg­ For advertisinl?, at rates not exceeding regular commercial rates, telegraphing, ulating railway transportation between the States-to the Committee inspection, and all other expenses connected with contracts and purchases for the on Commerce. IndiAn service, $15,000. By Mr. MULLER: The petition of Sarah Parish, for arrears of pen­ NoTE.-Total amount recommended by this bill, $135,000. sion as the widow of a soldier of the war of B12-to the Committee The question was upon ordering the bill to be engrossed and read on Revolutionary Pensions. a third time. • By Mr. POEHLER: The petition of John S ,., Dunbar and 56 others, Mr. PRICE. I desire to ask the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. citizens of Rice County, Minnesota, for the passage of a law to pro­ WELLS] whether the appropriation recommended for the Arapahoes, tect innocent purchasers of patented articles-to the Committee on Cheyennes, and other Indians has anything to do with the annuities. Patents. which are due those tribes t Also, the petition of Simon Taylor and 56 others, citizens of Rice Mr. WELLS. Not at a.11. It is an appropriation to supply. them County, Minnesota, for the passage of a la\_V to regulate interstate with provisions. commerce-to the Committee on Commerce. Mr. WARNER. Does this bill come from the Committee on Indian By l\fr. STARIN: The petitions of 35 citizehs and of 8 citizens and Affairs'/ ex-soldiers of Montgomery County, New York, for the passage of the The SPEAKER. It comes from the Committee on Appropriationa. equalization bounty bill-to the Committee on Military Affairs. Mr. WELLS. I will state to the House that the seemingly large By Mr. P. B. THOMPSON, JR.: The petition of W. G. Collier, to be appropriation of · 80,000 for the Arapahoes, Cheyennes, Apaches, and refunded certain moneys improperly collected from him by United other Indians is necessary for this reason: We have advices from the States revenue officials-to the Committee of Claims. agent of those Indians, but two days a.go, that there was not meat Also, the petition of citizens of Madison County, Kentucky, for the enough to last beyond the 1st of next month; that a.t that time the improvement of Kentucky River--to the Committee on Commerce. supply of beef would give out, and that the supply of flour, meal, and Also, the petition of N a.thaniel Warford, for ba-0k pay as a soldier coffee would run out by the 15th of next month. This amount of of the late war-to the Committee on Military Affairs. $80,000·is required to supply these Indians until the 1st day of July By Mr. TYLER: The petition of L. C. Kendall and 20 other , citi­ next. There are ninety-s~ven hundred of these Indians. The de­ zens of Windsor County, Vermont, for the ena-Otment of laws regu­ ficiency in the supplies has been caused by the drought in that section lating interstate commerce-t-0 the Committee on Commerce. of the country cutting off their crops during the past year. By Mr. JONATHAN T. UPDEGRAFF: The petition of William In regard to the other deficiencies reported in this bill, they a-re Bundy and others, citizens of Belmont County, Ohio, against railroad made necessary by the same reason, from the drought in the country, monopolies-to the same committee. and the Indians not being able to sustain themselves in any way. I By Mr. WAIT: The petition of Sidney Chappell and others, citizens have a communication from the Secretary of the Interior, as well as of Connecticut, for a change in the existing pilot laws-to the same one from the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, which I will ask to committee. have read by the Clerk as they will explain these matters more clearly By Mr. W.ELLS: A paper relating to the pension claim of John than I can do. Tobin-to t he Committee on Invalid Pensions. Mr. PRICE. Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question 'I By Mr. W1LLITS: The petition of E. A. Jordan and 34 others, of Mr. WELLS. Certainly. Lenawee County, Michigan, for legislation for relief against trans­ Mr. PRICE. I wish to know whether these appropriations are a. portation companies-to tbo Commit tee on Commerce. pa.rt of the annuities due to the Cheyennes and Arapahoes 'I Also, the petition of E. A. Jordan and 34 others, citizens of Lenawee Mr. WELLS. I think there are no annuities due them; they are County, Michigan, for legislation for the relief of innocent purchasers not treaty Indians. and users of patented articles-to the Committee on Patents. Mr. PRICE. I know that there are annuities due the Cheyennes By Mr. WRIGHT: The petitions of Louis A. Reese and 30 others, and Arapahoes. What I want to know is whether this appropriation citizens of Ladore, Kansas; of T. M. Blakely and 29 others, citi­ is a part of those annuities! zens of Omaha, Nebraska; and of Philip O'Neill and 42 others, citi­ Mr. WELLS. This appropriation is to supply these Indians with zens of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania., for the passage of the bill beef. .flour, meal, &c. (H. R. No. 269) known as the Wright supplement to the homestead Mr. PRICE. Not to be considered a part of their annuities. act-to the Committee on Public Lands. Mr. WELLS. Not to supply them with clothing, &c. By Mr. CASEY YOUNG: The petition of Francis Quyano, of New Mr. BLOUNT. I would inquire of my colleague on the committee