MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT

Tuesday 9 December 2014

Session 4

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Tuesday 9 December 2014

CONTENTS Col. TIME FOR REFLECTION ...... 1 BUSINESS MOTIONS ...... 2 Motions moved—[Joe FitzPatrick]—and agreed to. TOPICAL QUESTION TIME ...... 3 Hospital Emergency Departments (Waiting Times) ...... 3 Cold Weather Disruption ...... 6 FOOD () BILL: STAGE 3 ...... 8 FOOD (SCOTLAND) BILL ...... 21 Motion moved—[]. The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt) ...... 21 Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) ...... 24 Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) ...... 27 (North East Scotland) (SNP) ...... 29 Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) ...... 31 (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) ...... 33 Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) ...... 34 Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) ...... 35 Maureen Watt ...... 37 FISHERIES NEGOTIATIONS ...... 41 Motion moved—[]. Amendment moved—[Claire Baker]. Amendment moved—[Jamie McGrigor]. Amendment moved—[Liam McArthur]. The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Food and Environment (Richard Lochhead) ...... 41 Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) ...... 47 Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con) ...... 50 Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) ...... 53 (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) ...... 56 Cara Hilton (Dunfermline) (Lab) ...... 58 (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)...... 60 Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) ...... 62 Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) ...... 64 Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) ...... 66 Liam McArthur ...... 68 Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)...... 70 Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) ...... 73 Richard Lochhead...... 75 DECISION TIME ...... 80 LOCAL COASTAL PARTNERSHIPS ...... 89 Motion debated—[Rhoda Grant]. Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) ...... 89 (South Scotland) (SNP) ...... 91 Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) ...... 93 Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con) ...... 95 (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) ...... 96 Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) ...... 98 The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Food and Environment (Richard Lochhead) ...... 100

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Scottish Parliament Business Motions

Tuesday 9 December 2014 14:03 The Presiding Officer (): The [The Presiding Officer opened the meeting at next item of business is consideration of business 14:00] motion S4M-11828, in the name of Joe FitzPatrick, Time for Reflection on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a timetable for stage 3 consideration of the Food The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick): Good (Scotland) Bill. afternoon. The first item of business is time for Motion moved, reflection. Our time for reflection leader today is That the Parliament agrees that, during stage 3 of the the Rev Alan Cobain, the minister of Tyne Valley Food (Scotland) Bill, debate on groups of amendments parish, Midlothian. shall, subject to Rule 9.8.4A, be brought to a conclusion by the time limit indicated, that time limit being calculated from The Rev Alan Cobain (Tyne Valley Parish, when the stage begins and excluding any periods when Midlothian): Presiding Officer and members of other business is under consideration or when a meeting of the Scottish Parliament, I want to tell you a the Parliament is suspended (other than a suspension Christmas parable. I want you to picture the scene following the first division in the stage being called) or up in Princes Street, as it might be. It is of course otherwise not in progress: December. It is thronging with crowds of Groups 1 to 5: 35 minutes.—[Joe FitzPatrick.] Christmas shoppers from all over the world making their way through the rain. Motion agreed to. Among the crowds is a little girl with her mother. The Presiding Officer: The next item of She is holding her mother with one hand and with business is consideration of business motion S4M- the other she is clutching tightly to a newly 11831, in the name of Joe FitzPatrick, on behalf of purchased jigsaw in a box. She is all smiles the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a revision to because it is an early present. Suddenly, to her the business programme for today. horror, the little girl trips and spills the content of Motion moved, the box all over the wet pavement. Her mother, who is in a hurry, urges the little girl to “Come on”, That the Parliament agrees to the following revision to the programme of business for Tuesday 9 December but the child refuses to leave the sorry scene. 2014— Instead, she lingers and begins to sob, because she sees that the pieces strewn all over the wet delete pavement are beginning to be trampled by the 5.45 pm Decision Time busy shoppers. and insert Who can help? What can be done? There were 5.30 pm Decision Time—[Joe FitzPatrick.] a number of people passing by. Let me pick out one or two who were passing by the scene. First Motion agreed to. there was an unemployed youth with plenty of time on his hands. He sees the scene, but he does not think it is his business to stop or get involved. He merely steps around the pieces and walks on. Next is a charity worker. She has compassion for millions all over the world, but she is so deep in thought about her next Christmas purchase that she does not even see the need in front of her. Here is the unusual moment. A rich businessman, on his mobile phone, in a rush to make more money and pressed for time, surveys the scene from across Princes Street. He now crosses over Princes Street, dodging all the shiny new trams and, of course, all the buses and taxis, and he bends down in the rain. He starts to pick up the pieces. In amazement, the little girl looks into the kindness of his face and says, “Excuse me, sir, is your name Jesus?” “No”, he replies, “My name isn’t Jesus, but I’m a friend of his.”

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Topical Question Time We have been working with local boards to make sure that their winter plans are robust. That conversation is on-going. I have been asking the boards to test their plans to make sure that they 14:04 have the capacity to cope with winter pressures. Hospital Emergency Departments They are used to dealing with such pressures. (Waiting Times) Every year, they staff up and make sure that they have winter-resilient plans. This year is no 1. Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD): To ask different, other than the fact that we have the two the what it is doing to four-day festive holidays. Because of that, there support hospital emergency departments in light of has been particular focus on making sure that reports of increased waiting times and concerns health boards are absolutely prepared. that general practice closures over the festive period will exacerbate the situation. (S4T-00866) There is an important message to the public in all this, so NHS 24 has been running the be The Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing health-wise this winter campaign, which is and Sport (Shona Robison): Every year, national advising people not just to stock up on the usual health service boards and their partners develop remedies and to ensure that they have their repeat robust plans for winter. The winter planning prescriptions, but to know—this is important— guidance for NHS boards that was issued in where to turn if they become ill. NHS 24 opens the September specifically focuses on the two four- door to out-of-hours GP services and all the other day festive holidays. the services that people may require. It is This year, we have invested more than £18 important that we all, collectively, send a message million to support health boards, to improve how to the public that NHS 24 should be the first port of emergency care operates in hospitals and to call. address delayed discharges, particularly over the Jim Hume: The British Medical Association has winter months. The investment will provide said that there is a “weekly crisis” in A and E increased nursing, increased emergency departments and GP out-of-hours services. The ambulatory care capacity to reduce unnecessary Government said six years ago that it would hospital admissions and increased consultant reduce pressure on emergency departments by presence at weekends. Furthermore, NHS 24 has improving primary services for minor ailments, but received additional resources to answer calls over the numbers attending A and E are, at 198 an the festive period. It plays a key role in facilitating hour, higher than ever. access to NHS boards’ out-of-hours general practitioner services, which are available, each The system is in crisis after seven years of this year, throughout the festive period. The NHS 24 Government. With that in mind, and with the trend 111 freephone number will often be the best first increasing, how does the Scottish Government port of call for anyone with health concerns this propose to reverse that trend, given that the work festive period. to date has not been adequate? Jim Hume: The issue is not about the Shona Robison: I could remind Jim Hume outstanding work of those in our NHS; indeed, about the number of delayed discharges and they have our full support. pressures on A and E before 2007, but I will move on to talk about what we have done, the I am not comforted by the minister’s response. considerable work that has gone in and the £50 This year, more than 100,000 patients waited million investment in unscheduled care. more than four hours in accident and emergency departments. In the 12 weeks to the end of We have done that to make sure that systems September, almost 2,000 patients had to wait are in place that avoid people turning up at A and more than eight hours. That is more than twice as E in the first place. A lot of work is going on in the many as last year. Winter is knocking at the door, community to avoid admissions, particularly by which will only exacerbate the situation. vulnerable elderly people, and to make sure that, where possible, elderly people can be treated at What will the Scottish Government do in the home or in other settings. We are also making next week with that new information to work with sure that we have step-up, step-down facilities to NHS boards to ensure that struggling emergency get people out of acute beds as quickly as departments are able to cope throughout the possible. Importantly, however, we are making winter? sure that we avoid people needing to go into Shona Robison: It is right that we pay tribute to hospital in the first place by giving them a different the outstanding work of our health service staff; place to go where rehabilitation and support can winter always brings challenges, and they do a be given. All those measures are important, which fantastic job to overcome them. is why they are being taken forward.

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In addition, I have given top priority to delayed Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and discharge, because, as Jim Hume said, a Badenoch) (SNP): Sorry, Presiding Officer, my challenge in getting people through accident and microphone is not working. It has come on now—I emergency speedily is the availability of beds in do not think that that was my fault, anyway. the system, and delayed discharge has a huge [Interruption.] impact on that. The Presiding Officer: One moment, Mr That is why the issue is a top priority. Thompson. Will you sit down, please? Investment is going in, not just to deal with Mr Findlay, I have warned you about heckling delayed discharge this winter, which we will have to do if we are to alleviate pressure on the system, Neil Findlay: I— but to tackle the issue and get delayed discharge The Presiding Officer: Mr Findlay, will you stop out of the system once and for all. That is my commitment as we go forward over the next few arguing with me? I have warned you about heckling; will you please desist and behave months. yourself? Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab): NHS Lothian is I call Dave Thompson. struggling to recover from the waiting times scandal, and we read in the Evening News that there is a £70 million funding gap, which a senior Cold Weather Disruption board member described as a “very dire picture”. 2. Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Given concerns about increased waiting times and Badenoch) (SNP): To ask the Scottish GP practice closures over the festive period, what Government how it will ensure that disruption as a assistance and advice can the cabinet secretary result of cold weather this week is kept to a offer patients who are worried about the impact of minimum. (S4T-00870) the budget crisis on NHS Lothian and on patients? The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Shona Robison: First, the assurance to Secretary for Finance, Constitution and patients will be that NHS Lothian will manage its Economy (John Swinney): The current weather financial processes, as other boards do, and will situation is that we have a windy and unsettled get into financial balance by the end of the year. week ahead of us, with many areas of the country Of course, boards are getting a real-terms experiencing their first snowfall of the season. increase in their uplift and will get that in the next financial year. Although such weather is not unusual in Scotland at this time of year, it is necessary to Just last week, the member was calling for prepare accordingly. Plans are in place and all money to go into social care. One week he calls responders are working together to that objective. for money to go into social care, and the next Gritters have been active in supporting the week he calls for the same money to be magically essential work that is required on the trunk road produced and spent in the health service. network. Neil Findlay: No crisis, then? In addition, the resilience division has convened Shona Robison: As the member would know if a meeting of our resilience partners from across he had heard John Swinney announce this, we Scotland this afternoon, and later today there will have committed to the consequentials from the be a ministerial resilience call to discuss the autumn statement all going to health—again, that preparations. The Scottish Government’s is something that the member, who is his party’s resilience response has been activated, along with health spokesperson, has refused to confirm that the Transport Scotland multi-agency response he would do. team, to oversee the co-ordinated efforts of responders and local partnerships. Neil Findlay: No crisis, then. It’s all fine. On Sunday the transport minister observed The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick): Mr gritting preparations in the west of Scotland, and Findlay— earlier today I visited the new Transport Scotland Shona Robison: I do not underestimate the control centre in South Queensferry, where I saw challenges that face the health service, and I am the extensive arrangements that are in place to keep the country moving and provide the best determined to tackle them. However, I will take no possible advice to members of the public. lectures from the member on those matters. Dave Thompson: One of the challenges in The Presiding Officer: Mr Findlay, you must previous winters has been the availability of salt. stop heckling across the chamber. Can the Deputy First Minister reassure people that I call Dave Thompson to ask question 2. stocks this year are appropriate? Is there any way

7 9 DECEMBER 2014 8 that motorists can get information on where Food (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3 gritters will be and when? John Swinney: The salt stocks in Scotland as at 1 December 2014 are 639,120 tonnes, which 14:17 includes 90,000 tonnes in the strategic salt The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick): The reserve. That is almost double the stock that was next item of business is stage 3 of the Food used last winter, and as much as was used during (Scotland) Bill. Members should have the bill as the severe weather in 2010-11, which was a amended at stage 2, which is document SP bill particular challenge for our resilience operations. 48A; the marshalled list of amendments, which is The information on gritting operations that are SP bill 48A-ML; and the groupings, which is SP bill undertaken on the trunk road network is visible in 48A-G. real time on the Traffic Scotland website. It The division bell will sound and proceedings will indicates the routes that are supported and is be suspended for five minutes for the first division updated daily so that members of the public can of the afternoon. The period of voting for the first access it. There are also back-up arrangements division will be 30 seconds. Thereafter, I will allow by which additional gritting services can be a voting period of one minute for the first division deployed if urgent circumstances materialise. after a debate. Members who wish to speak in the Dave Thompson: Highland Council is planning debate on any group of amendments should press to leave secondary roads with little traffic unsalted their request-to-speak buttons as soon as possible in the early morning as the salt does not work after I call the group. unless it is driven on. Does the cabinet secretary Members should now refer to the marshalled list agree that that is worth considering? of amendments. John Swinney: Obviously, judgments must be arrived at a local level by individual authorities, Section 2—Objectives which will have to take into account particular The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith): circumstances in their own localities, given that Group 1 is on improving the extent to which the conditions can vary quite dramatically from area to public have diets that are conducive to good area. health. Amendment 4, in the name of Dr Richard Although we take a proactive approach to the Simpson, is grouped with amendment 10. trunk road network, and the gritting operations are Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) well advertised on the Traffic Scotland website, (Lab): Amendment 4 aims to clarify the objectives individual local authorities come to appropriate for improvement in diet for public health purposes, conclusions depending on the circumstances in in respect of specification of content, including their locality. calories. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease and Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con): stroke remain among the greatest challenges that During the particularly cold period that we we face, and if we are serious about improving the experienced exactly four years ago this week, health of the public, our independent food agency there was considerable disruption on the railways will need to play a vigorous leading role. as a result of frozen points. We were told at the The elements that must be addressed by our time that there was a programme in place to heat new independent agency include salt, saturated points electrically in the future. At this stage, do we fats, trans fats, sugar and calories. The Food know whether the programme has been Standards Agency has done excellent work on completed, and can we avoid the same problem if content in some respects—for example, in setting we should suffer similarly cold weather? maximum values for trans fats, saturated fats, John Swinney: A series of incremental steps sodium and sugar as well as minimum protein has been taken to ensure that that has taken specifications. Those were all put into regulations place. The rail network has been upgraded to as part of the school meals programme in 2004. ensure that we have greater resilience on these On 19 June 2013, the Food Standards Agency in questions. Mr Johnstone will appreciate the Scotland launched a new front-of-pack nutrition extremity of temperatures that was experienced labelling scheme, which was very welcome, and I four years ago; the circumstances that we believe am delighted that we now have a traffic-light we will face in the next seven days will not mirror system. Over the years, the Food Standards temperatures of anything of that order whatsoever. Agency has done an excellent job in many areas, There is greater resilience, but the process is including in reducing the amount of salt in our diet. incremental and will take some time to complete. Nevertheless, salt consumption remains high at 8.1g to 8.8g per day; it is important that we achieve a level of 6g per day across the adult population.

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There has been good progress on trans fats, but and calories are matters of concern to consumers, the restriction on all trans fats that are not naturally giving information about those will already be part occurring would have been achieved had my of what the FSS will do, so there is no need for member’s bill received support in the previous amendment 4. More important is that calorific session of Parliament. Too many fast foods still values and food content are not the only factors have those dangerous fats present in them. There that bear on a healthy diet, so referring to them has also been progress on saturated fats and expressly in the bill would create a risk of focusing sugars. unduly on those factors at the expense of considering issues of food health in the round. However, one thing that has yet to be tackled so vigorously is calories. Amendment 10 specifies Further, amendment 4 suggests that FSS would that the agency will have the power to introduce a have a role in setting standards in respect of national scheme on calorie values. At present, the calories, content, advertising and promotion. That bill refers to a “hygiene information scheme”, will not be the case. Food information and, to which is welcome. Progress has also recently some extent, nutrition are matters that are been made on voluntary action, with Sainsbury’s, regulated at European Union level. Setting the for instance, including calorie values on its wine standards for industry on the basis of evidence labelling. More than 20 years ago, I visited the and advice from bodies such as FSS is a role for Mayo clinic in the United States, and calorie and the EU and the Scottish Government, not for FSS. saturated fat levels were being shown on menus Amendment 10 is similarly well intentioned, but I then, so we need to make a step change in this consider that it would not be right to have it amend area. It is welcome that Parliament has been the bill at this time. It would add a relatively putting calorie values on its menus—I hope that significant new enabling power without the Health some members have paid attention to that. and Sport Committee or the Delegated Powers Section 2(2) makes clear the risks that are and Law Reform Committee having had an referred to in section 2(1)(a), which relate to opportunity to offer input on it. Subject to advice “the way in which food is produced or supplied.” from FSS and others, the Scottish ministers may well, in due course, support a public consultation However, amendment 10 would make it clearer, in on a mandatory scheme that would require food respect of the new objective in section 2(1)(b), that businesses to display nutritional values. That is beyond the safety and integrity of food, its calorie what we did for the prospective mandatory content, its advertising and its promotion would be scheme on displaying hygiene information, for defined objectives. We currently have warning which the bill provides. However, before we could signs on tobacco and we have traffic lights for go ahead with the idea, more work would be labelling on food, but we need to ensure that in required on whether displaying calorie values or advertising and promotion of food throughout the wider nutritional information is effective in helping industry, there are strict conditions to ensure that consumers to have healthy diets. For instance, I obesity and public health issues are made clear would first like to hear from consumers about and that the public are fully informed. whether they would prefer such a scheme to focus I move amendment 4. on sugar or salt. The Minister for Public Health (Maureen The most significant reason for not accepting Watt): We all agree that the content of food and its amendment 10 is the impact that it would have on calorific value are important in a healthy diet. I am small businesses and local authorities. Every time therefore grateful to Dr Simpson for raising those mandatory schemes on calorie values, sugar and issues. I know how passionately he promotes salt content and so on are considered, the impact them. on small producers is highlighted. We cannot ignore that; we must be proportionate in our Nevertheless, although the amendments are approach and we must balance the benefits and well intentioned, I do not believe that they are the impacts. It is arguable that larger food necessary or that they would improve the bill. producers and retailers will have more resource to Amendment 4 could cause confusion by inserting dedicate to researching and preparing the display into the objectives of food standards Scotland of calorie values. Indeed, as Dr Simpson what is, in essence, a function such as those that highlighted, many larger organisations already are contained in section 3. That could be have policies on that. However, smaller confusing in that it would give the particular businesses such as caterers or restaurants would function undue emphasis, to the detriment of all find the proposed provision extremely expensive the other important functions that FSS must to comply with. Furthermore, the additional burden perform. The functions in section 3 already include on local authority officers, who would have to giving advice and information and informing the check all the additional displays, would be public about matters that affect their capacity to significant. make informed decisions about food. If content

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We need to take a proportionate and section 3 says that it must define “significantly”, partnership-based approach to any scheme that which will be difficult. might put undue pressure on our businesses and I do not fully understand the legal definition of on our local authority colleagues. For the reasons what constitutes “significant”. For example, if that I have outlined, I believe that amendment 10 something affects a very small minority, is that is premature and that more work and consultation effect significant? It is for that minority, but in need to be done in order to work up proposals for global terms—for the population of Scotland as a a scheme before legislation could be considered. whole—it is not and might in that context be Amendments 4 and 10 are well intended, but regarded as quite insubstantial. When added to existing legislation can be used to deliver the other small effects, those small effects can same outcomes. The effect of amendments 4 and collectively become substantial. To be quite frank, 10, as they stand, would be disproportionate, and the word “significantly” therefore sticks in my craw. the measures that they seek to implement have We tried to have it removed from the bill at stage not been consulted on. I therefore invite 2, but at the time there was some debate about Parliament not to accept amendments 4 and 10. whether I was allowed to intervene. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I ask Dr In moving amendment 5, I am seeking to make Simpson to wind up and to say whether he intends a point and to find out how the minister defines the to press or to seek to withdraw amendment 4. word “significantly”. Depending on how she does so, I will decide whether to press or to seek to Dr Simpson: I thank the minister for her words. withdraw amendment 5. I understand the reasons that the Government has given for saying that what I propose is not, at I move amendment 5. present, necessary. However, it is possible for a Government to 14:30 introduce provisions and not to activate them until Maureen Watt: As Dr Simpson said, an it is ready to do so. I give the example of the social amendment that was the same as amendment 5 responsibility levy on alcohol, which has still not was lodged at stage 2. It was debated, and it was been regulated on even though it was introduced withdrawn following a division. As my predecessor in an act that was passed five years ago. It would said at stage 2, be for the Government to decide on the appropriate timing. “We understand the intention of the proposal ... to remove the word ‘significantly’. It is important that food standards I welcome the fact that the minister agrees that Scotland acts on a wide range of interests that are information on calories, as well as on all the other important to consumers, and that is what its intended things that I listed, is important. Amendments 4 objective is. However, the practical effect of the seemingly small change” and 10 would have sent a message to the industry that we intended to tackle such matters vigorously would be disproportionate, meaning that the new and that it ought to prepare for that, but, in the light body of what the minister has said, I am prepared to “could have to turn its attention to a wide range of seek to withdraw amendment 4 and not to move concerns, significant or not. That could risk FSS losing amendment 10. focus on the most important matters”. Amendment 4, by agreement, withdrawn. The word “significantly” is vital to make it clear that Section 3—General functions “although FSS will be concerned with all matters of interest The Deputy Presiding Officer: Group 2 is on to consumers, it cannot lose focus on matters that have the most impact on consumers.”—[Official Report, Health and matters in relation to which food standards Sport Committee, 11 November 2014; c 10-11.] Scotland must keep the public informed. Amendment 5, in the name of Richard Simpson, is For that reason, I invite Parliament not to accept the only amendment in the group. amendment 5. Dr Simpson: I lodged amendment 5 because I Dr Simpson: I accept the definition of feel strongly that the inclusion in section 3(1)(c) of ‘significantly’ that the minister has now put on the the word “significantly” will unnecessarily restrict record, which is that, if something affects people in the new agency in protecting the public. Section 2, the way that I have described, then it affects a which is on the objectives of food standards small minority of people, but they are affected Scotland, talks about the agency acting substantially. Action would be taken, because that proportionately and in a manner that enables it to would be a priority for them. fulfil its objectives—in other words, it will be up to Generally, of course, food standards Scotland the agency how it deals with such matters—but should be considering matters of greater

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importance. It will be up to the agency to prioritise more important. It would ensure that, when them. members are disqualified in connection with any office listed in section 7(1), ministers have the On the basis of the minister’s words, I seek to power to grant an extension in order to ensure that amendment 5. the board is functional. Amendment 5, by agreement, withdrawn. I move amendment 6. Section 6—Number and appointment of Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con): A members number of significant witnesses sought a larger minimum number of people on the board. Richard The Deputy Presiding Officer: We move on to Simpson has given a number of very good group 3, on membership of food standards reasons why his amendment 6 should be Scotland. Amendment 6, in the name of Dr approved, and I am happy to support it. Richard Simpson, is grouped with amendment 7. Maureen Watt: As Dr Richard Simpson said, an Dr Simpson: I appreciate that we had a good amendment that was similar to amendment 6 was debate on this matter at stage 2 in the Health and moved and withdrawn without objection at stage 2. Sport Committee, when an amendment was The Health and Sport Committee also considered moved by Aileen McLeod to change the minimum the number of members at stage 1 and accepted number of members to five. The minister at the that the number that is set out in the bill is only a time did not accept the amendment, although the minimum. Ministers have given the committee an increase was supported in evidence by such assurance on that. disparate groups as Quality Meat Scotland and Which? I will shortly announce the appointment of seven further members to add to the appointment of Let us consider the minimum number of Ross Finnie as chair designate, which was members proposed under the bill, which is three announced last month. I hope that that is clear plus the chair. If two members are absent, that evidence of the Government’s commitment to run could reduce the board to two. I am not speaking food standards Scotland with its full complement entirely theoretically. I have looked at a number of of eight—seven members and the chair—as the non-governmental organisations, where the norm. absence of two members is not unusual. I do not believe that a board could or should function The minimum number in the bill—three without at least three members present. I have members plus the chair—has to be low enough to therefore proposed a modest increase to four plus allow flexibility during reappointment rounds or in the chair, in the hope that at least three will be case of emergencies. That number and lower present on every occasion. numbers already work for other bodies of a similar size. The Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator Looking at other evidence suggesting that there has a minimum of four members including the should be an employee director, gender balance chair and the Scottish Housing Regulator has a and a strong consumer interest, I think that my minimum of three members including the chair, proposed modest increase is appropriate. and that has not caused difficulty for them. The In his response at stage 2, the then Minister for Government sees no reason to reconsider the Public Health said that it would be attempted to minimum number. keep the board at a higher level than three. If that Amendment 7 is unnecessary and impractical. It is the case, food standards Scotland should have is unnecessary in that it is extremely unlikely that a a higher minimum, too, not least because that member would take up any of the public offices or would ensure that matters are dealt with in an employment listed in section 7(1) of the bill without appropriate way. being in a position to give ministers some notice. The minister also said that the board would be That would usually allow ministers sufficient time smaller because the functions of the new agency to make arrangements to protect FSS’s ability to were smaller. The board’s powers and the things carry out its functions. For someone to remain a that it must do are expanding significantly. Matters member of FSS while taking up many of the listed of public safety in relation to food have come to posts would lead to immediate conflicts of interest. the fore in the past year, since preparation of the In any case, taking up many of the posts— bill began. I suggest that we need a board that is particularly the parliamentary and council posts— strong enough to be effective. It is on that basis would mean having to declare an interest and then that I will move amendment 6. taking no part in FSS decisions. There is nothing that ministers can do to set that aside. That makes Amendment 7 has a similar intent to that of the arrangement suggested in amendment 7 amendment 6. It is intended to be helpful to the wholly redundant. Government. If amendment 6 were to be rejected by the Government, amendment 7 would become

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I therefore invite the Parliament not to support Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab) amendments 6 and 7. Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con) Dr Simpson: In summing up, I will deal with the Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con) amendments in reverse order. Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con) Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) I do not agree with what the minister said on Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab) amendment 7. If someone is elected as a member Ferguson, Patricia ( Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) of the Scottish Parliament or the House of Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Findlay, Neil (Lothian) (Lab) Commons, they go straight into business and will Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) not be able to give a lot of notice. That is Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) problematic. If there is an immediate Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab) disqualification, the member of food standards Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Scotland would have to leave the board Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) immediately, so no notice would be given. Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Hume, Jim (South Scotland) (LD) However, amendment 7 was intended to be Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con) helpful to the minister and future Governments, Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green) Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab) including—one hopes—a Labour Government. If Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) the minister chooses to reject that—I see her Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) smiling—I am happy not to move amendment 7. Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab) Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab) That is not the case with amendment 6, Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab) however. The arguments that the minister has put Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab) forward are not sufficient. The other NGOs or Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab) agencies that the minister mentioned have quite McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) different functions. The new body will deal with the McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD) FSA in England, the Board of Trade in England McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) and the European Food Safety Authority. It will McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) deal with all our public safety matters on nutrition McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab) and meat inspection—the list of functions is Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con) huge—and massive experience will be required Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab) across those areas. Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) I very much welcome the appointment of Ross Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Finnie as the prospective chair of food standards Simpson, Dr Richard (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab) Scotland, provided the bill is passed. He is a man Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) of great experience. However, it is not Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) unreasonable to ask the Government for a Against minimum of four members and I am disappointed that it proposes to reject that. I press amendment Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP) 6. Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) that amendment 6 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Members: No. Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP) division. As it is the first division this afternoon, the Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP) Parliament will be suspended for five minutes. Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) 14:38 Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP) Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross- Meeting suspended. shire) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) 14:43 Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP) On resuming— Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP) The Deputy Presiding Officer: We will proceed Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) with the division on amendment 6. Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP) For Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab)

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Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and I hope that the minister may be more willing to Lauderdale) (SNP) accept this revised set of amendments. Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Amendment 8 requires the costs of printing reports Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) to be published as an incentive to FSS to reduce Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) its costs over time. Amendment 9 requires that Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) reports laid before Parliament should only be Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP) online reports, as MSPs should all be reasonably MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP) digital-savvy by now. Of course, those online MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) reports can also be in formats that are suitable for MacKenzie, Mike (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) those with a visual disability or other disabilities. Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) I hope that the minister will accept these revised Maxwell, Stewart (West Scotland) (SNP) amendments as representing a more timely McAlpine, Joan (South Scotland) (SNP) approach to the matter of trying to reduce the McDonald, Mark ( Donside) (SNP) amount of paper that floats around the system, McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) costs a fortune and destroys trees. (SNP) McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) I move amendment 8. McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP) Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Maureen Watt: If the intention of amendment 8 Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) is to help keep a handle on the costs that are Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) associated with printing reports and the Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) environmental impact of printing them, I am happy Salmond, Alex (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) to offer my assurance that that is something that Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) ministers are always keen to encourage. However, Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) the specific amendment is unclear and Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) unnecessary. It is not clear whether the option for Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) FSS to lay a statement of costs would concern the Urquhart, Jean (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) costs that were associated with printing copies of Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) reports to be laid in Parliament or the costs of all Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP) copies that were printed. That is confusing. White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (Ind) I believe that amendment 8 is also unnecessary. Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP) It is not something that any other public body is being asked to do. The statutory duties of best The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of value require public bodies to demonstrate and be the division is: For 45, Against 62, Abstentions 0. audited on how they operate efficiently and Amendment 6 disagreed to. economically. In any case, for the avoidance of any doubt over our commitments, I will be happy Section 7—Early ending of membership to emphasise the need to consider printing costs and impacts in the FSS statement of performance Amendment 7 not moved. of functions.

Section 14—Annual and other reports Amendment 9 is also unnecessary. Ministers have already pointed out at stage 2, when a very The Deputy Presiding Officer: We move to similar amendment was lodged, that how group 4, on annual and other reports. Amendment documents are laid in Parliament is already well 8, in the name of Dr Richard Simpson, is grouped regulated. The amendment is also vague, in that it with amendment 9. is not clear whether “normally” would mean that FSS would have to have good reason in a given 14:45 case to lodge a physical document or that it could choose in any case to lodge a physical document, Dr Simpson: We had a debate on this area of provided that it followed a general practice of concern at stage 2, about online publishing of lodging documents electronically. I therefore ask reports. The view of the minister was that the time Parliament not to accept amendments 8 or 9. was not right to exclusively publish all reports online because that would exclude some people Dr Simpson: I thank the minister for her who did not have access to digital applications. response. I accept, from what she is saying, that Although I dispute that, in so far as those the Government will seek to reduce the number of members of the public who do not have personal paper reports that come in as far as possible, and access to the internet do have access through I hope that the Parliament may look at the their public libraries, I accept that my original regulations regarding the submission of reports. amendment was probably ahead of its time. The one thing that I do not accept in what the minister is saying is in relation to whether all

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reports or some reports need to be submitted After section 33 electronically. The amendment left it to FSS to make a decision on that. There may be occasions Amendment 10 not moved. on which a paper report is appropriate, and the wording of the amendment was designed to give Section 48—Power to make supplementary FSS some wriggle room. etc. provision With the permission of the Parliament, I will not Amendment 2 moved—[Maureen Watt]—and press the amendments. agreed to. Amendment 8, by agreement, withdrawn. Schedule Amendment 9 not moved. Amendment 3 moved—[Maureen Watt]—and agreed to. Section 32—Food information The Deputy Presiding Officer: We move to The Deputy Presiding Officer: That ends group 5, on minor and technical amendments. consideration of amendments. Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2 and 3. Maureen Watt: The amendments in the group are minor ones that either update the draft bill or provide more clarity. They will improve the clarity and consistency of the bill’s provisions. Amendment 1 corrects a minor oversight in the bill, as introduced. The word “subsection” is required for consistency with neighbouring subsections and to give full effect to section 32. Amendment 2 provides clarity on the circumstances in which regulations that are made in connection with administrative sanctions can allow for discharging criminal liability where someone has been served with both a fixed- penalty notice and a compliance notice. The section, which was added at stage 2, was intended to cover that situation. However, last Wednesday, the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee published its report on the bill, as amended at stage 2, and its report recommended that we make the further change that the amendment makes. Amendment 3 updates the list of acts that would be modified by the enactment of the bill. It is now clear that the Agricultural Statistics Act 1979 does not extend to Scotland and so requires no modification. The amendment removes it from the schedule accordingly. I move amendment 1. Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP): I rise as the convener of the aforementioned Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee. I thank the Government for taking seriously what we said. There was an entirely unintended consequence of some drafting, and I am grateful that the Government has tidied it up. Amendment 1 agreed to.

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Food (Scotland) Bill We have also announced the appointment of the acting Food Standards Agency director Geoff The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith): Ogle as chief executive designate. I met him on Friday and he is keen to make progress. He is The next item of business is a debate on motion assembling his executive team and working with S4M-11826, in the name of Maureen Watt, on the staff in Aberdeen to be ready for FSS to take on its Food (Scotland) Bill. full range of functions on 1 April 2015. Food standards Scotland’s clear objectives as 14:52 set out in the bill will be to The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt): I am pleased to open the stage 3 debate on “protect the public from risks to health which may arise in connection with the consumption of food ... improve the the Food (Scotland) Bill. [Interruption.] extent to which members of the public have diets which are The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order, please. conducive to good health” There is far too much noise. We cannot hear the and minister. “protect the other interests of consumers in relation to Maureen Watt: I thank the Health and Sport food.” Committee for its consideration of the bill and for To achieve those objectives, the bill sets out its careful handling of the bill at stage 2, as well as clear functions: to develop, and help others the Delegated Powers and Law Reform develop, policies on food and animal feeding Committee for its very detailed scrutiny. I also stuffs; to advise the Scottish Government, other thank the bill team and my colleague Michael authorities and the public on food and animal Matheson for doing the bulk of the work feeding stuffs; to keep the public and users of surrounding the bill. animal feeding stuffs advised to help them to The Scottish Government is committed to make informed decisions about food and ensuring that people in Scotland live longer, feedstuffs; and to monitor the performance of healthier lives. Ensuring that we eat a good, enforcement authorities in enforcing food nutritious diet of safe food is vital to achieving that legislation. ambition. Food-borne diseases, for example, cost The bill sets out specific duties and associated Scotland £140 million a year. More significantly, of powers for the new body on acquiring and the 130,000 consumers who contract food-borne reviewing information through carrying out diseases each year, around 2,000 will be observations and inspections, monitoring hospitalised and around 50 will, sadly, die. developments and carrying out, commissioning or Similarly, poor eating habits are one of the most co-ordinating research. significant causes of ill health in Scotland and are a major factor in obesity. New food law provisions are the second lever that we are introducing through the bill to tackle The Food (Scotland) Bill gives Scotland some of food issues in Scotland. They are designed to the levers that we can use to tackle those issues. protect and improve public health and other First, the bill will create food standards Scotland to interests of consumers by driving up hygiene be Scotland’s independent food safety and standards and reducing the incidence of food- standards body. We have already announced the borne disease; providing safeguards against food appointment of Ross Finnie as the chair standards incidents such as the horsemeat food designate. I met Mr Finnie last week and will fraud; and strengthening and simplifying the shortly announce the names of the other penalties regime for breaches of food law. members. The bill provides powers to seize and detain FSS will comprise eight members, including the food that does not comply with food information chair, as allowed for in the bill. I have noted law. Those powers will more closely align food concerns, which were expressed earlier, about the information powers with existing food safety minimum number of members allowed for in the powers. Currently, if food is unsafe, it can be bill. I hope that appointing a full complement of seized or detained and the courts must order its members now demonstrates the Government’s destruction. However, there are no such powers intention to maintain a broad membership for food for food that is safe but which does not comply standards Scotland. As FSS will be a non- with food information requirements. ministerial body, operating free from the influence of ministers, the board and chief executive will In light of the horsemeat food fraud incidents, need sufficient space to prepare and develop their we have introduced the power to seize or detain strategic thinking and build key relationships with food that does not meet food information partners. requirements—in respect of labelling, for example—which will help to eliminate food fraud.

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Without such a power being available, a food Government has explored that further, and I can business might still be able to pass on food that confirm that we will take the idea forward. does not comply with food information law. Ministers already have legislative power to make regulations in that regard, so no amendment is The bill also provides for the creation of a required to the bill. statutory offence of failure to report breaches of food information law. That will more closely align We must, first, concentrate on bedding in food food standards requirements with the existing duty standards Scotland with its current objectives and to report breaches of food safety legislation. Under functions. However, during 2015, ministers will be the suggested arrangements, it would become an expecting a public consultation on regulations to offence to fail to notify food standards Scotland if introduce a testing disclosure scheme. The details any person suspected that food did not comply will be developed for consultation next year. with food information law. The bill will ensure that food safety is given the The bill provides the Scottish ministers with prominence that it deserves in Scotland by powers to introduce a statutory scheme that, creating food standards Scotland and equipping it among other things, will require food businesses with the necessary functions and powers to make to display inspection outcomes. That is intended to expedient decisions that are focused on issues drive up food hygiene standards and reduce the that specifically affect Scotland, and to take action incidence of food-borne disease. to improve the diet of the people of Scotland. The bill will streamline Scotland’s food law I move, enforcement regime by offering a range of new That the Parliament agrees that the Food (Scotland) Bill administrative sanctions so that offences will be be passed. dealt with more quickly and at less cost. That sanctions regime, which will comprise compliance notices and fixed penalties, will give enforcement 15:02 officers more flexibility to deal appropriately with Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) food offences. The use of administrative penalty (Lab): We have had a Food Standards Agency options will reduce the burden on the courts and since 1999, but as part of a United Kingdom the costs to local authorities of prosecuting agency. The agency has been a success and has through the court system. acted on its own initiative, for example, as I said at stage 3, on standards for school meals. More I will offer reassurances on some commitments recently, it has produced independent research on that my predecessor gave at stage 2 to consider food fraud, on which it led the rest of the UK. issues that were raised in amendments that the committee did not accept. I can confirm that, as However, with the UK Tory-Liberal Democrat with all public bodies, ministers will expect that as coalition breaking up the UK agency, much as possible of the business of food consideration of the future of FSA Scotland was standards Scotland in terms of board meetings necessary. Professor Scudamore’s report in and committee meetings will be conducted in March 2012 strongly recommended Scotland public. having an independent agency. That is a classic example of powers with a purpose, and Labour As a non-ministerial office, food standards has backed the general principles of the bill from Scotland will be operationally autonomous. the outset. However, to achieve transparency, section 5 of the bill requires food standards Scotland to set out, in In what has become a standard Scottish a statement, how it will perform its functions. I will approach that seeks to ensure that experts and be responsible for signing off that statement and the public are fully engaged in any new bill, we will have power to modify the statement if I have had two consultations, and there have been consider that to be appropriate. two further reports following the horsemeat scandal, with Scudamore reporting again, on food The statutory statement will have to include and feed safety, and Ray Jones reporting on specific operational matters ranging from how traceability, labelling, assurance schemes and consumer interests will be safeguarded to how provenance issues associated with primary red reports are published and what business matters meat production and processing. the board would not consider in public, and why. That statement of performance of functions will be We have come a long way since the Swann an important mechanism, helping food standards report on antibiotics in veterinary use, which was Scotland to build public trust. published in the late 1960s. However, the issue of chemicals in meat production is a matter of At stage 2, my predecessor also committed to concern. If the transatlantic trade and investment exploring the practicability of introducing a scheme partnership is approved, we must ensure that US to encourage food business operators to report the outcomes of their testing and sampling. The

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meat that is produced using growth hormones is feeding of brain and spinal cord to cattle as a controlled. money-saving device resulted in BSE, which, by the way, we have not seen the end of. As I Most of the evidence that the committee mentioned, I have concerns about the use of received supported a new independent agency, antibiotics and growth hormone. but some people argued that the preservation of the status quo would ensure consistency of We are only now beginning to emerge from an approach, communication and advice across the era of excessive additives. Agents for anti-caking, UK, maintain good links to the European Union anti-foaming, bulking, food colouring and colour and avoid duplication of effort. The committee retention as well as emulsifiers, humectants to rightly rejected that view. I believe that it is vital to prevent drying out, preservatives, stabilizers, Scotland’s food production that we have an sweeteners and thickeners—all named in Europe agency that is seen to be independent and which as E numbers—are widespread and pervasive. can ensure that Scotland’s reputation for quality is One example of the challenge of additives is fully protected. For example, our farmed salmon is whether certain colourants and sodium benzoate the only salmon with the Label Rouge, making it a contribute to increases in attention deficit premium product. hyperactivity disorder in children. As the minister said, the new agency’s powers There has been significant controversy are to be enhanced. My amendments sought to associated with the risks and benefits of food reinforce the agency’s powers on diet and additives. Some artificial additives have been nutrition, working in partnership with the linked with cancer, digestive problems, Government and Health Protection Scotland, neurological conditions, ADHD—as I mentioned— which will be important in tackling what I believe heart disease and obesity. However, the evidence will emerge as the biggest challenge in public is often still equivocal. Natural additives may be health. similarly harmful or may be the cause of allergic reactions in certain individuals. One example is Currently, tobacco is the main legacy issue that the azo dye sunset yellow, which is already we are tackling. Of course, alcohol is important banned in many Nordic countries. The UK has the and progress is being made through price control highest consumption by children of soft drinks and availability restriction. I hope that, with support containing such dyes in the European Union, and for many of the 10 elements in my proposed Scotland has the highest in the UK. Therefore, member’s bill, we will continue to make progress clarity on safety is needed if at all possible. on alcohol. However, obesity, which currently affects 27.8 per cent of adults, threatens to Of course, that is mainly a matter for the reverse the gains in life expectancy over the past European Food Safety Authority, which rightly sets 20 years. When I started in medicine, the level of many of the regulations for us. Its expert scientific type 2 diabetes was at 1 per cent of the panel that deals with food additives, the panel on population, but it is now at 6 per cent across the food additives and nutrient sources added to UK, with more than 250,000 people in Scotland food—the ANS panel—has started the process of affected. reassessing all permitted food colours, of which there are 45 in total, including six additives that, in The new agency will have to meet head-on the 2009, the UK FSA called for food manufacturers to issues of food content, such as saturated fat, trans voluntarily stop using. The banning of those fat, salt, sugar and food density or calories. That colourings could result in significant challenges to will mean challenging the current buy-one-get- our producers, including AG Barr, which produces one-free approach of retailers as well as the Irn-Bru. However, AG Barr already exports a approach of the food industry. To that end, I Ponceau-free Irn-Bru to Canada, which has supported many of the amendments that Which?, banned the UK recipe. Therefore, it is not one of the premier consumer bodies, suggested at impossible for food producers to change stage 2. It is imperative that, in the appointments production without having to wait for the final to the board, there should be a powerful consumer results of tests. interest as well as an employee director, as Unison has suggested. There should also be The new agency will need to commission gender balance. research, but in doing so it will need a memorandum of understanding with the remnant Labour will seek to act if the agency fails to FSA and it will need to work closely with the demonstrate sufficient power in the area of European FSA, if not have a memorandum of nutrition. The Health and Sport Committee noted understanding with it. My view is that the agency the suggestions that it received that one role of the must lead us in a transition to a simpler approach agency should be to help grow food and drink to food and a world in which a slightly misshapen industries in Scotland. However, if it is to do so, it carrot or apple is regarded as equally acceptable will need to ensure that its role as a regulator as the pre-packaged tracer gas-filled products in remains paramount. We must never forget that the

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supermarkets today, the packaging of which is must set out how the two will work together, where neither biodegradable nor recyclable. We also appropriate, and enable them to exchange data need a world in which additives are minimised. and research findings in all areas of mutual The agency must rigorously apply the interest. I confess that I do not know whether the precautionary principle. MOU has yet been published, although I know that it was being drafted. I would appreciate an update There are many other issues that I do not have from the minister on its development. time to go into. The hygiene aspect of the bill is critical, as we still have one of the highest rates of Maureen Watt: The memorandum of E coli 107. That is a challenge, as will be emerging understanding with the UK FSA and the European bacteria or strains. My colleague Rhoda Grant will FSA is being prepared. It will be one of the first deal with the matter of local authority trading things that the new board will sign off. standards and Claire Baker will mention meat Nanette Milne: I look forward to hearing about inspection, which we dealt with in the stage 1 that in due course. debate and which is a critical part of the bill. I would also welcome a progress report on the I could go on for some time, but my time is up. I Scottish Government’s monitoring of the food commend the bill to the Parliament. hygiene information schemes in Northern Ireland and Wales, and an indication of when such a 15:10 scheme might be set up in Scotland. Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con): Some concerns were expressed at stage 1, The Food (Scotland) Bill was welcomed by most of following which the consumer organisation Which? the people who responded to the Health and Sport has welcomed the plans agreed at stage 2 to Committee’s call for evidence, and the relatively enhance enforcement powers through FSS few amendments to it at stages 2 and 3 indicate working proactively with local authorities to drive the general approval of its measures. I said at up standards. Which? also welcomes the decision stage 1: to allow the new agency to have improved access “In this day and age, when so many of us rely to food testing from retailers and manufacturers, increasingly on processed food and ready-prepared meals, which will allow action to be taken swiftly when it is crucial that we can trust the safety and nutrition value and where food adulteration is detected, to protect of the food that we eat.”—[Official Report, 2 October 2014; consumers and other businesses that rely on the c 47.] same supply chain. It is concerning that, just a few It is also vital that we begin to tackle the very months ago, Which?, in its mystery shopping serious problem of obesity in Scotland. activity, found evidence of food adulteration and misrepresentation in a number of takeaways and Given the changed remit of the Food Standards fish and chip shops across the UK. It goes without Agency south of the border and following the saying that constant vigilance is required in horsemeat scandal, it is generally accepted that relation to the contamination of chickens with the the time is right for Scotland to set up a new campylobacter organism, which Professor Hugh stand-alone body, with wider powers than the FSA Pennington described in evidence as the that it replaces. FSS will bring together the FSA’s commonest cause of food poisoning today. existing public health protection role and a new objective on diet and nutrition, and it will also have A number of witnesses commented on the powers in relation to labelled food and non- board size, which, at three plus the chairman, they compliance with food law. believed to be too small. I am disappointed that Richard Simpson’s amendment to increase the To be effective in tackling the complexities of minimum number to four was defeated. I hope that diet and nutrition in Scotland, FSS will have to the Government’s faith that the board will always develop a strong leadership and co-ordinating operate with enough expertise and will be role, which can be developed only through consumer focused in all its work is justified, and I negotiation after the new body is in place. It must hope that the Government will monitor that, to be be adequately resourced and work closely with the assured that the fears are unwarranted. I am Scottish Government’s scientific advisers. pleased that the first board will have seven At stage 1, the importance of the existing links members plus the chairman, if I heard the minister between the advisory committees and the UK correctly. Food Standards Agency was highlighted. Those One important, as yet unresolved concern for committees will be able to pull together the the retail sector is the absence of robust appeals significant on-going work in the UK and across mechanisms for both fixed-penalty notices and Europe, and give advice through the FSA to FSS compliance notices. The sector very much regrets as an independent body. That makes the that the Government would not agree to set out memorandum of understanding between the FSA details of the appeals process or to provide and FSS crucial to the success of the new body. It

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safeguards for retailers in the bill, and it would like in the north-east and across Scotland will be a assurances from the Government that it will work great help in her new role. with retailers on any secondary legislation to I believe that the bill will help Scotland become ensure robust appeal systems for FPNs and a healthy nation and a good food nation. compliance notices. Both the Scottish Retail Consortium and the Scotch Whisky Association I would like to take this opportunity to have offered to comment on, or assist with, the congratulate the minister’s predecessor, Mr drafting of regulations and guidance that will Matheson, on his announcement of the two senior accompany the bill, and I hope that that offer will appointments to lead food standards Scotland: be taken up. Ross Finnie and Geoff Ogle will bring their own experiences in the food industry. I recently met I will not go into detail on why retailers believe Geoff Ogle in his office in Aberdeen and I am that the burden of proof for FPNs must be set delighted with the two appointments. My meeting beyond reasonable doubt and that a robust appeal with Mr Ogle, then acting director Scotland at the system is important to ensure that decisions are Food Standards Agency, was to get reassurance based on the same level of evidence that is that food producers will get a fair deal from any required for a criminal, rather than civil penalty, changes that this bill will bring. because I know that officials have been in talks with the retail sector about that as the bill has The Health and Sport Committee visited one of progressed through Parliament. Likewise for those producers, a seafood producer based in compliance notices, the lack of a strong appeal Aberdeen, in the same street as Maureen Watt’s process could have very serious implications for office in Torry. I know that the minister will be the livelihoods of smaller producers. familiar with Joseph Robertson, the family seafood company, founded in 1892, which produces the I ask the minister to assure us that those very best quality sea-to-plate produce. Michael concerns will be considered when any secondary Robertson, the managing director, shared with the legislation is under discussion and that the committee his concerns about the possible Government will explicitly consult organisations increasing costs for food producers that are such as the SRC and the SWA, which have associated with this bill. I trust the new agency consistently stressed the importance of a clear headed by Geoff Ogle to reassure the industry on and robust appeals process being available. that point. If those residual concerns are addressed, taking Scotland does not operate in a vacuum at home into account the pledges that the minister has or abroad. Our Scottish producers have to be able made today, I think that the Food (Scotland) Bill to compete. That is why I believe that new can be a very effective piece of legislation in labelling and regulations in Scotland must be meeting the interests of food health protection and accepted in the rest of the UK and in the EU if they nutritional support in Scotland. I look forward to its are to be enforced. implementation, assuming that it is approved at decision time today, and to hearing about the Richard Simpson talked about a simpler activities as food standards Scotland develops in approach to food. There is a need for clarity and the months and years ahead. transparency. I want to clarify a point that I made in October when debating this bill. The committee The Deputy Presiding Officer: We come to the reported a discussion with Michael Robertson, open debate. Speeches should be of four minutes managing director of Joseph Robertson, about please. I call Christian Allard, to be followed by inspection, in which the important point was made Claire Baker. that local authority inspections were not as high quality as retailers’ own inspections. That is why I 15:15 ask food standards Scotland to show leadership Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP): on the issue. I am delighted to speak today at the last stage of John Sleith, the chairman of the Society of Chief the very welcome Food (Scotland) Bill. Officers of Environmental Health in Scotland, I first put on record my sincere congratulations wrote to me and shared his members’ concern to our new Minister for Public Health, the member that I agreed with Michael Robertson. Let me for Aberdeen South and North Kincardine, reassure Mr Sleith that I do not consider major Maureen Watt. In the stage 1 debate, I spoke a lot retailers to be above environmental health about the north-east and, of course, I recognise inspectors, but Mr Robertson has a point—the that the minister has promoted the north-east of new agency must provide the benchmark for Scotland as the country’s natural larder many everyone dealing with food safety. times before me. The minister’s experience of the Food producers, particularly small and medium- food industry and how to support food producers sized food producers, cannot afford to spend the amount of money that they spend today on

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responding to the constant demands of major consultation, the Government proposes a food retailers. To protect the consumer, it is imperative commission. that inspections are of the same quality across Debate around food in Scotland can be difficult, Scotland and, to protect the food producers, it is and Richard Simpson has the tabloid scars to imperative that they are accepted by all major prove it whenever he talks about a soda tax. A retailers. commission could provide the space for a I agree with the minister rejecting amendments reasonable, evidence-based assessment and that would have increased the pressure on health proposals. I ask the minister to say how it would inspectors and the local authorities that fund them. relate to the new food standards body. Also, if the new body is to have a greater public health role, I believe that the new agency will have a prime how will it co-ordinate the work with the national role to play. My plea to all members is to support health service to prevent duplication? our food industry and to remind Scottish consumers to buy locally and to eat the very best At the cross-party group on food and drink a few of healthy Scottish food. weeks ago, someone said that we should have not a good food nation but a good diet nation. In our parliamentary debate a few weeks ago, members 15:19 took us on culinary tours of their constituencies. Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab): I The focus was very much on pastries, pies and am pleased to make a contribution to the debate. tablet. Does it matter if we consume such products The Parliament recently held a food and drink as long as they are part of a balanced diet? debate. There is a growing recognition that the Christian Allard: Will the member give way? public health agenda and the food and drink sector need to be more closely aligned. The “Becoming a Claire Baker: I am very tight for time. Good Food Nation” consultation indicates a Are people clear about what a balanced diet different Scottish Government focus. It attempts to means? A focus on fad diets, even by the First tie together the debates on growing food as a Minister, does not change long-term habits and strong sector of our economy and how we address build good health. our domestic food challenges with regard to income and knowledge. That is to be welcomed. The new body has a role to play in providing trusted information and the Government needs to It can be challenging to work successfully support it in getting out that message. No coffee or across Government, and the new food standards kitchen-table book will be produced by the new Scotland organisation, which will have body that competes with those that promise the responsibilities in public health as well as latest starlet figure if people drink maple syrup—or regulation of the food sector, is an example of the whatever the latest fad is—but the Government need for closer working and to produce food and all partner agencies have a responsibility to policies across Government portfolios that relate promote clear messages and to do all that they meaningfully to each other. can to support that by working with producers and What are the challenges facing the new body? suppliers. This afternoon will confirm the creation of the new We need to look at child obesity in particular. organisation. Along with the chair, a board will The reasons for such obesity are complex, but soon be appointed, notwithstanding the debate there is a lack of information for parents on portion about the board’s make-up. The organisation’s size, calories and activity levels. Advice needs to policy direction and focus will then be created. be tailored and different from that provided to Therefore, the debate now moves on to what the adults. new body will achieve. In the stage 1 debate, I focused on the The Parliament has led public debate on organisation’s regulatory role and its responsibility tobacco and alcohol and we need to turn our for meat inspection. I say again that that must be attention to food. By 2030, we will be spending £3 robust and resourced. We have seen cuts in staff billion on tackling obesity if we continue the way and inspection numbers; we have also seen such that we are going. At a time when our overseas cuts at local authority level among environmental food export market has the potential to expand, health officers. The new organisation will be with the development of new emerging markets, challenged in reconciling capacity and demand to we will be fighting battles about food at home. ensure food safety. Alongside obesity, there are health issues The reputation of Scotland’s food and drink associated with poor diet and food poverty. There sector is strong and the new organisation has an needs to be realignment of our diets, and the new important role to play in keeping it that way. body has a role to play here. How do we have that debate? In the “Becoming a Good Food Nation”

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15:24 enforcement officers, who have had a tough job. Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP): I Some of the fines that were handed out in the past thank my fellow Health and Sport Committee did not come close to the profits that were being members for making this such an enjoyable and made. Anything that helps local authority interesting piece of legislation to work on. enforcement officers is to be welcomed. After what I might describe as the demise of the FSA in England and its reduction to a shell of its 15:28 former self, this Parliament has the opportunity to Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con): I was put in place an organisation and regime in which at my local bakery a couple of weeks ago; Mrs the public and people at all levels of the food Carlaw and I are quite partial to its potato scones. industry can have trust, which is incredibly Other, inferior, potato scones are no doubt important given the problems that we have had in available elsewhere. I was there during the local past years. The recommendations in the school’s lunch hour, which was quite an eye- Scudamore report have been accepted, and a opener. One pupil ordered a mutton pie and single body, with clear responsibility for all aspects haggis in a roll. That was a combination that I had of food safety and standards, can be developed. not hitherto heard of. The pupil ordered sauce— tomato and brown—and demolished the whole One of the most fascinating aspects of the thing in short order. That made me think about the committee’s work has been learning about the underlying obesity issue. One does not want to be body’s ability to take on many of the problems that po-faced about the occasional treat; I have had a we face in this country. We know that people have mutton pie from time to time, and I like haggis, had poor diets for a number of years. Dr Simpson although I have never had the two combined in a made a number of good and valid points about roll, with two types of sauce. matters that food standards Scotland will have to consider. It is easy for us to be intellectual and high- falutin’ about the responsibilities of food standards I welcome the minister’s announcement on the Scotland in relation to better diet. As we as a size of the FSS board, which is good news. The Parliament have found in grappling with many board will be the right size and will be led by the other cultural issues, such habits are deep-seated. right person. I look forward to seeing the FSS It is quite a tall order—but nonetheless necessary, develop to become the force in the industry that over time—that we address significantly within the we really need. Trust is everything. Our food and broader health portfolio what we now understand drinks industry is vital to our country’s economy to be an emerging crisis for the health service. and we cannot see it go downhill because of a When the Parliament was founded, we would not lack of legislation, food fraud and, frankly, have included that issue on the agenda for future dangerous behaviour in relation to infectious legislation. disease and the like. Maureen Watt: Would Jackson Carlaw like to Aside from all that, probably the most give way? informative visit that the committee made was our visit to Aberdeen. As members said, we met the Jackson Carlaw: I will—as long as it is not management at Joseph Robertson, who gave us about an alternative brand of potato scone. an insight into the business aspects of the Maureen Watt: Absolutely not. I am sure that industry. The management team had serious concerns about labelling, our ability to maintain Jackson Carlaw would like to take the opportunity research funding and the like—at that point, prior to disassociate himself from the comments of his Westminster colleague who said that the poor to the referendum, some political points were cannot cook nowadays. being made about that—and how the bill would impact on transport, food identification and so on, Jackson Carlaw: Naturally, I would: the Mary which is where problems have arisen. Berry skills of the average Scot are exemplary. We considered the horsemeat scandal and food I must say that the announcement of Ross fraud, which must be fought. The FSS cannot deal Finnie’s appointment had passed me by—I missed with such issues just in this country; we must be it. Some of us on the Conservative seats in the international in outlook. As we were told, bugs do chamber had thought that the Deputy Prime not operate within borders—or something along Minister might have seen fit to ennoble Mr Finnie, those lines. An international approach is critical if but instead he saw in colleagues from past our food industry is to maintain its position at the sessions of this Parliament talents that some of us top of the tree for people who regard it from had not fully appreciated. outside. Thankfully, Mr Finnie has now found favour with We are a bit short of time, so I will just say that I the Scottish Government, which has given him a am delighted that the bill will help local authority useful occupation. I thought that he might have

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joined us in the gallery today, but obviously the labelling into practice, that made it a lot easier for meter is not running yet. Nonetheless, I wish him us to scrutinise the legislation. every success in exercising his responsibilities. He I congratulate Ross Finnie on his appointment is a serious player and he will, given his as chair of food standards Scotland; it is very experience, be a first-class appointment. Those welcome, and every member in the chamber has basal tones that have been lost to us here, which been happy to congratulate him on it, and wish used to revive debates at that late hour in the him all the best in his new role. afternoon as they boomed forth, will no doubt be well founded in his new role. We are supportive of the bill and recognise the need for it following the breaking up of the Food I hope that I do not sound too irreverent, Standards Agency at UK level. We hope that it will because the bill is an important piece of provide a really robust regulatory regime that legislation. As Nanette Milne said, the very fact protects consumers, because consumers needs that there were so few amendments underpins the and protection must be at the heart of everything broad cross-party consensus that exists. that food standards Scotland does. Those high In my years in the motor trade, we used to carry standards not only protect consumers but help to out customer satisfaction surveys. It was promote our produce and protect our producers, interesting, because people in the west of as they give them the reputation—which other Scotland were never 100 per cent satisfied with members have mentioned in the debate—that anything, but we had to phone them up and tell allows them to sell their products not only in them that they were, because sums of money Scotland but throughout the UK, in Europe and depended on whether people were completely beyond. satisfied. I have always been very suspicious of I ask the minister to bring forward a procedure those surveys ever since. for appeal against the fixed-penalty notice, which a I bring that experience to bear on the issue of number of members including Nanette Milne and the subjectivity that will underpin fixed-penalty Jackson Carlaw mentioned. It is important that notices. It is very important that, in the forthcoming justice is seen to be done and is seen to be fair. secondary legislation, there will be a common Many people are keen on the fixed-penalty notice standard and understanding with regard to how because it cuts through bureaucracy, time and fixed-penalty notices will be applied and the cost, but it also needs to be fairly administered to criteria that will underpin them. I hope, on a ensure that any errors can be picked up and that serious note, that the minister will ensure that that people have a right to appeal against any is the case, because many small businesses could judgment that is made. find themselves being adversely affected if I turn—as Richard Simpson said I would—to variable and subjective criteria are applied. trading standards officers. An awful lot of the Nonetheless, I very much welcome the bill. I regulation will come from food standards Scotland, know that the minister will be grateful that it has but we must ensure that it works and that the not been the most difficult bill that she has inspection and examination are done by local inherited and has had to take through Parliament, government, through trading standards officers, and we look forward to supporting it in a few meat inspectors, food hygiene inspectors and minutes’ time. environmental health officers. All those professionals have vital roles to play in protecting The Deputy Presiding Officer: I note that consumers and making sure that the work of food Nanette Milne is missing from the chamber. I standards Scotland is carried out properly and is respectfully remind members that if they regulated at ground level. However, local participate in a debate, they should be here for the government is facing cuts, and the worry is that closing speeches. the regime that food standards Scotland implements will not be properly policed at council 15:33 level. We are looking for some reassurance that Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): I that will happen in order to protect consumers and thank committee members, and the committee producers alike. clerks and support staff, for their help in working Maureen Watt: I reassure Rhoda Grant that through the bill in the Health and Sport Committee. one of the functions of food standards Scotland I also thank Joseph Robertson, the Food will be to provide training to gear up people in local Standards Agency in Aberdeen and the other authorities so that they can do their job better. organisations that hosted the committee’s visit. It certainly made our job easier to see how the bill Rhoda Grant: I am grateful for that will impact in practice. The bill could have been reassurance. very dry and difficult to deal with, but when we saw I will turn quickly to the public health role of how companies had to put food standards and FSS, which was touched on by Claire Baker. It is

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important that it will have that role, although we safety and environmental standards will not be will have to see how it is developed. We are keen lowered and that there is, for example, no to see how it will interact with other public health prospect that genetically modified crops or roles in the national health service and so on. It is hormone-treated beef will be allowed into the EU. important that we look at public health. Richard We will keep watching that space to make sure Simpson talked about the increase in type 2 that that does not happen. diabetes, which is enormous and needs to be On having an employee director on its board, tackled, and Claire Baker asked whether we ministers will ensure that employee representation should be a good diet nation rather than a good arrangements will be included in the statement of food nation. performance of functions that food standards I admit that I was one of those who took the Scotland will be required to produce. culinary tour of the Highlands and Islands during I completely agree with Richard Simpson about the food debate a couple of weeks ago, and the provenance of food and use of additives, Jackson Carlaw continued that today with his which is why we need to encourage use, as far as promotion of tattie scones from his local baker. possible, of good wholesome food from local However, while we promote what is good—there is sources. the old adage that a little of what you fancy does you good—we need to look at how we tackle I say to Nanette Milne that ministers will ask obesity, especially childhood obesity, as well as FSS for detailed advice on the introduction of the people’s knowledge of nutrition. We get a lot of food hygiene information scheme through nutrition information on packaging, but it is not regulations, which will probably take place in late always understood that a child’s nutritional needs 2015. are quite different from an adult’s nutritional needs. We need to do more to promote that On appeals against administrative sanctions, I distinction on food labelling. Indeed, some of the remind members that it is a legal requirement that all food law is fully consulted on. I give an food that is designed for children is loaded with assurance that the appeal mechanism for sugar, which is not very good for them. compliance notices will be consulted on, but I We need to think about how food is promoted know from having spoken to the industry that no and packaged; labelling plays an important role in appeal mechanism is possible in relation to fixed that. Part of food standards Scotland’s remit will penalties. be to ensure that food is labelled properly and The bill offers us a chance to make a real gives the right advice. It must be consistent with difference on food safety and healthy diet, which labelling in the rest of the United Kingdom and in are areas of significant concern to the public. line with EU legislation as well as legislation for Setting out in the bill a nutrition and diet objective other markets, because we want our produce to be sold further afield, but it is important that food for FSS will give the body a more transparent and labelling advises people what they should eat—in strategic role in this area. Having a clearer remit will give FSS the impetus to lead partnerships with addressing imported foods from other parts of the other public bodies to tackle specific food and diet world, Richard Simpson talked about antibiotics, issues. That clear remit will help to clear up additives and the like. We need to ensure that confusion about roles and responsibilities among food labelling does all that, as well as promoting our food. partners. Food standards Scotland will help us to continue I remind members that, with the bill, we are not simply rebadging the Food Standards Agency in to build on the excellence that we have in the Scotland. As well as giving FSS a clearer and Scottish food industry. I hope that, at its heart, it wider remit on diet and nutrition, we are will protect consumers but will also promote safeguarding the link between food safety, excellence within our industry. nutrition and labelling here in Scotland. Food standards Scotland will take on all the functions 15:39 that are currently exercised in Scotland by the Maureen Watt: I thank members for their Scottish division of the UK-wide Food Standards contributions. I welcome the breadth of support Agency. The remit of the Scottish division has that the bill has received through all its been wider than that of the FSA south of the parliamentary stages and the constructive nature border for some years. In 2010, the UK of what members have said in the debate. Government removed responsibility for labelling and for nutrition policy from the English arm of the I share Richard Simpson’s concerns about FSA. In Scotland, we maintained the link between TTIP, which I discussed with officials before I those aspects and food safety. The UK came to the chamber. The European Commission Government’s decision was subsequently seen to has repeatedly stated that consumer health and have been a factor that hindered its response to

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the horsemeat scandal in 2013. The horsemeat I give members a firm assurance that I will make scandal demonstrated the importance of having a certain that the issues that have been raised in the single body that has clear responsibility for all debate and that were proposed through stage 3 aspects of food safety and standards. amendments will be considered carefully for inclusion in the statement on performance. That It is important to note that the bill also requires will hopefully offer clarity on a number of the FSS to operate in a way that is proportionate, issues that have been raised today. transparent and accountable, and to carry out good decision making, which includes consulting Members have made very helpful contributions people and making its decisions publicly available. today. I thank them for all their input throughout all That will help to build a new relationship with the bill’s stages. As Jackson Carlaw mentioned, I consumers, and is one example of how FSS will have picked up the Food (Scotland) Bill only now, operate differently from how the FSA currently at stage 3, and I am glad that it has been fairly operates. uncontentious. I hope that it will be passed unanimously at decision time today. Another key new feature of the arrangements that we are making in Scotland involves making Scottish research more joined up. The FSS will play a more involved role in co-ordinating all grant- funded research into food and diet that is carried out by Scottish research bodies such as the Rowett institute of nutrition and health, and the James Hutton Institute. Claire Baker is not in the chamber at the moment, but she asked about co-ordination of effort. It is proposed that there will be better co- ordination between the NHS and food standards Scotland. Through its creation, we can have better co-ordination between the FSS, the NHS and the Scottish Government. I also agree with Claire Baker that we have, as a nation, lost our way on food portions. In our house, we were recently replacing chipped dinner plates, and I made sure that they were replaced with smaller ones. We will wait to see whether it makes a difference. Linking grant-funded research to its research will provide FSS with a much wider knowledge base and a greater ability to co-ordinate efforts and focus. We will not lose the links with the rest of the UK and Europe. The UK Government and the FSA have given written assurance regarding access to scientific advice and representation in Europe for FSS. Knowledge sharing goes two ways, of course. There are areas of expertise in Scotland—for example, on shellfish and E coli—which our colleagues in the rest of the UK will still wish to tap into. I will now reflect on some of the issues that we have considered in the debate today. First, I will recap on the importance of section 5 and the statement on performance of functions. As I said in my opening speech, food standards Scotland will be operationally autonomous, so the statement will achieve transparency and will, we hope, build public confidence and trust. The statement is where we will find assurance on operational matters such as the method of publication of reports.

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Fisheries Negotiations As members can imagine, there were intense negotiations about the total allowable catches for The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith): cod and haddock in particular. Those two stocks are closely linked in the rich and diverse mixed The next item of business is a debate on motion fishery of the North Sea, where harsh limits on one S4M-11825, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on stock could lead to increased discarding of the the end-of-year fish negotiations. other. To force more discards on the fleet in that way would send the wrong message as the sector 15:48 moves towards mixed fishery plans and the The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Food landing obligation as part of the discard bans, and Environment (Richard Lochhead): It does when our watchwords will have to be common not really feel like a year since we last discussed sense, flexibility and innovation. the annual fisheries negotiations in the chamber. I am glad to say that common sense prevailed Time flies by when we are really busy, and 2014 and, after much discussion, the talks delivered a has certainly been a busy year for Scotland. We much-needed and scientifically justifiable 5 per have seen momentous and historic events the cent increase in the North Sea cod quota against a likes of which we might not see again for some backdrop of a proposed 20 per cent cut. The North time—but hopefully not too long. Sea saith and whiting quotas were reduced in line The fundamental significance of fishing to this with long-term management plans, although, as country remains—year in, year out. Our with haddock, we continued to secure an inward communities continue to depend on our fishermen, transfer from Norway of additional whiting to help who often operate in treacherous conditions that to mitigate the effect of that cut. Other elements make fishing one of the most dangerous industries were rolled over from last year in a package that in the country. That was brought home again this was broadly welcomed by the industry in Scotland. year with the loss of life from the Ocean Way Given that, this year, haddock was assessed for accident, which was a horrible reminder that too the first time as one whole northern stock many pay the ultimate price to bring food to our straddling the North Sea and the waters to the tables. west of Scotland, I am confident that, in Brussels Our fisheries are varied and are spread the next week, we will be able to secure a significant length and breadth of our country, from small increase in quota for the west of Scotland haddock inshore vessels to the largest and most stock. sophisticated offshore vessels. That same fleet of The negotiating season moved on to the EU and vessels is supporting our vital onshore processing Faroe Islands talks, which concluded just today. sector, which handles and sells our fabulous As many members will recall, that important seafood, with its unrivalled reputation, the world bilateral agreement was reinstated in 2014 after a over. four-year pause and much angst, and it has now I pay tribute, as I am sure we all do, to the re-established critical access for our white-fish resilience and spirit of this great industry and I fleet to Faroese waters, which alone is worth more acknowledge its contribution to the social and than £3 million a year. The deal provides much- economic wellbeing of many of our communities. needed flexibility through access to additional fishing grounds and the provision of an effort We are in the midst of the end-year refuge from the cod recovery zone for many of our negotiations. Negotiations by their nature cause vessels. uncertainty, and the annual bun fights, which we are now used to, can act against sensible I am pleased to confirm to the Parliament that planning. All that strengthens the Government’s we have managed to maintain the same level of resolve to secure the best possible outcomes for white-fish quota and that there has been no the industry in this year’s negotiations, which increase in access for Faroese vessels. In line culminate in next week’s fisheries council in with the overall total allowable catch changes, the Brussels. quota that the Faroese can fish has been reduced from nearly 47,000 tonnes to less than 40,000. I am pleased to note that we have started on a bright note with the gains that were achieved at In negotiating the agreements, it is my job to the European Union and Norway negotiations last balance the multiple needs across all sectors of week. For the first time in recent years, the talks the industry to secure the wider benefits for all our were concluded in advance of the December fleets. Let us be clear that the share of access council negotiations, which removes uncertainty given to the Faroese reduced from 43 per cent in over key North Sea quotas and access to 2010 to 30 per cent in 2014, and today’s Norwegian waters. agreement maintains that level.

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I assure the Parliament—I know that the matter at case by case and on the basis of the available has been of concern to many people—that our evidence, using stock trends as indicators. compliance teams have targeted their resources I will press hard to establish the principle that, and expertise on monitoring the Faroese vessels when the science identifies a stock as being one that fish some of their quota in Scottish waters. In and the same in adjoining areas, there should be the past year, we have carried out 29 inspections an element of flexibility in how the quota may be on 51 Faroese fishing trips. That is close to a 60 fished across those areas. That would be available per cent inspection rate, which is a truly only when quota is held in both areas, to protect impressive level of scrutiny, especially considering historical interests, and it would be key in reducing the environment that our compliance vessels have unnecessary discards by and costs to our fleet. to operate in at this time of year. I hope that those Haddock and saith both fall into that category this figures reassure our fleet. year. I know that our fleet will benefit from the The wider policy context for the December sustainable mackerel quotas for 2015 that have council is different this year. Proposals from the been agreed in the past few weeks, which yield a Commission are translating many of the strategic Scottish quota of just under 187,000 tonnes. That goals of the new common fisheries policy. The agreement will provide stability as we look ahead signs are that next year’s talks, which will establish to next year, aided by our successful calls to the quotas for the first year of the demersal landing European Commission for increased banking obligation in 2016 as part of the discard bans, will provisions for mackerel in response to the Russian be much more difficult. Before then, we will reach trade sanctions. a significant milestone in tackling the discarding of We are packing our bags for the annual fish when the pelagic landing obligation comes endurance test that is the December fisheries into force in a few weeks, on 1 January 2015. Of council in Brussels, when all the talks come course, the introduction of the pelagic discard ban together with the negotiation that will take place is only the first step. From 2016, the ban will begin next week for the internal EU stocks. I am told that to apply to our white-fish and nephrops fleets, and I am now the longest-serving fisheries minister in from 2019 it will extend to all quota species. the whole of Europe. Based on my experience, I We all know that the Scottish Government will never be convinced that it is sensible to do supported action to tackle discards, as did many business in a sleep-deprived environment that is parties across the chamber and the industry. It is a crammed in over two days. That is no doubt what no-brainer—nobody wants to have to throw we will experience early next week. perfectly good fish back, dead, into the sea. It is As expected, this year’s scientific advice not good for businesses, fish stocks and presented what we always term a mixed bag. The conservation, and it is certainly not good for the overall picture is more positive than last year’s, consumer in an age of increasing food security with some welcome advice suggesting increases issues. for key stocks such as northern shelf and Rockall I know that Scottish fishermen and the onshore haddock, monkfish, megrim and North Sea sector are worried about the landing obligation and nephrops. the significant changes that it will bring to their However, it is still as disappointing as it is day-to-day practices. We should not illogical that once again we will have to expend underestimate the challenges that they will have to energy on fighting off proposed cuts in the days at face and the adaptation that will be required sea that our fishermen are able to fish. It is across our fleets. It is therefore right and proper frustrating that we are still having to struggle free that we work as hard as we can at Scottish and of the outdated and flawed straitjacket that was European levels to ensure that the landing imposed by the now discredited cod recovery plan. obligation is introduced responsibly and That is why, when I met Commissioner Vella last pragmatically, in a manner that avoids delivering week in Brussels, I made it clear that the cod big shocks and damaging our fragile fishing recovery plan is well past its sell-by date and communities. needs to be replaced urgently. I was encouraged It is just as important that comparable vessels by his willingness to listen and I hope that that fishing alongside each other all face or anticipate willingness is soon translated into action. the same level of monitoring and control of their More generally, we shall protect our position activities. I make the point time and again to my when the advice on quotas is unclear or when we United Kingdom counterpart that, as we take need to ensure that positive recommendations, forward the discard bans, we must have a level such as those that we have for monkfish and west playing field. I will look to make sensible use of the of Scotland haddock, are implemented next week. flexibilities that are built into the regulations and to We will fight hard to ensure that so-called data- take a pragmatic approach to phasing in the new limited stocks are not cut arbitrarily but are looked rules.

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I am clear that we cannot continue with where I—as Scotland’s fisheries minister with business as usual. I have spoken about the need seven years’ experience—have been forced to sit to develop 21st century fisheries management in silence on the sidelines and watch as tools to deal with 21st century problems. We inexperienced UK ministers and even unelected should not be bound by the current structure, lords have represented the UK in important which was created back in the early 1980s. If discussions that affected Scotland’s fishing fishermen are being asked to adapt, fisheries industry. That was the case last month, when managers must also be prepared to adapt. There Rupert Ponsonby, Lord de Mauley, had to be is an onus on managers and fishers to innovate briefed on the most basic issues at the vital and embrace change by balancing responsible negotiations. The decision to draft in an unelected fishing with our fleet’s viability. That is the lord with no experience of the issues at stake was message that I will deliver in Brussels. It is time for an arrogant and insensitive insult that took no us all to roll up our sleeves and step forward account of the mood in post-referendum Scotland. together to meet the challenges that we face. We need genuine commitments to allow the We always seem to face stiff challenges and Scottish minister to lead the development of the difficult decisions at the end-of-year fisheries UK negotiating position as well as to lead for the negotiations. That is why, at every negotiation, we UK when appropriate—and I do not mean just should be able to create the best possible when the UK ministers cannot make it or when conditions to get the best deal for Scotland. they decide to leave for the Eurostar or their flight Unfortunately, the current constitutional settlement home early. prevents that. It is also unfortunate that the Smith We were, of course, disappointed by the lack of commission’s recommendations barely move us reference in the Smith report to fisheries. forward on securing the future of fisheries in this country. The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott): Can you draw to a close, please? The one reference to a fisheries-related topic appears right at the end of the Smith commission Richard Lochhead: In a quintessentially report in a proposal to review the current Scottish sector, in which Scotland is predominant arrangements for raising seafood levies, which in the UK, we see devo max as a no-brainer that have long been frustrating for the Scottish makes clear and absolute sense for fisheries. It is Government because they are outdated and therefore frankly baffling that the Smith inflexible. We have to get that right if we want to recommendations did not pass that litmus test. promote Scotland’s fantastic seafood and help the Hands tied or not, I will of course ensure that industry. Scotland’s priorities are always uppermost in the Believe it or not, the current arrangements stem minds of UK ministers. We will do our utmost to from the Fisheries Act 1981, which predates fight for Scotland’s interests across the board. Scottish devolution by almost 20 years. As a relic What is never out of my mind is what all this of a bygone age, those arrangements continue to means in the real world of our fishermen and tie Scotland to a dysfunctional UK levy system that women who work in the industry—what they can seeks vainly to do the impossible job of supporting fish, where they can fish, how much they can fish very different industries north and south of the and even how much time they can spend at sea border, including importers from other countries, The Deputy Presiding Officer: You really must which are all in competition with each other. We have to change that system. The Scottish people close, please. should have the ability to decide the extent to Richard Lochhead: That is why we will which Scotland participates in UK levy continue to do our utmost to secure the best arrangements, with the freedom—in legislative possible deal for this great and proud industry next and in practical terms—to establish separate week. arrangements north of the border when we consider that it is appropriate to do so. I move, That the Parliament welcomes the successful conclusion One other recommendation is relevant to of the recent EU-Norway fishing negotiations, which fisheries. The Smith report recommends that, secured a number of good outcomes for the Scottish fishing when there is a predominant Scottish interest and industry; notes the forthcoming annual fishing negotiations the lead UK minister does not attend the EU in Brussels and supports the Scottish Government in its Council of Ministers, a Scottish minister should by efforts to achieve the best possible outcome for the default speak for the UK there. That clearly applies industry; agrees that the final negotiated settlement must promote sustainable fisheries and have the best interests of to fisheries and I have no doubt that it was a Scotland’s fishermen, coastal communities and wider subtle reference to fisheries. seafood sectors at its heart; notes that the outcome of the negotiations will be pivotal to support the fleet's That proposal is the least that we should expect implementation of the landing obligation, and supports the and it should put an end to the ridiculous situation

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Scottish Government’s continued calls for it to lead for the would present the UK case but, going forward, our UK in European fisheries negotiations on issues where it is understanding of what is “clearly appropriate” clearly appropriate to do so. might not always be the same as the Scottish The Deputy Presiding Officer: We are very Government’s understanding. tight for time today. Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP): If the member has sympathy with the cabinet 16:02 secretary, why does she want to remove the part Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab): It of the motion that says exactly that—that we is almost a year since the new common fisheries regret the cabinet secretary not having the policy was introduced, but the forthcoming year is opportunity to lead in the talks? when the force of the changes comes into effect. Claire Baker: My understanding of the Scottish We are starting to see changes in the end-of-year Government’s motion is that it does not refer to the negotiations that the debate refers to. There is particular incident about who represented us at EU less horse trading and fewer late-night negotiations, when I supported the Government’s negotiations. There is an increasing attempt to concerns. However, as during the referendum take out the politics and grandstanding and debate, I am pretty clear that I believe that the instead to focus on delivering sustainable fisheries UK’s strong negotiating position provides the best that support employment, communities and our deal for Scottish fishermen. food sector, while not damaging stocks or the marine environment. Notwithstanding the UK Government’s questionable decision to bring in a member of the Conservation and stability of stocks can deliver House of Lords at the last minute to represent UK long-term economic health for the whole industry, interests, I hope that the cabinet secretary will onshore and offshore. We need a continued work well with his UK colleagues in the interests of commitment from the Scottish Government and the Scottish sector, as in previous years. The the sector to deliver that. Scotland’s fishing sector negotiations are significant, and I want Scotland to employs about 5,000 people in the catching sector support decisions that aid the effective introduction and supports key employment in supporting of the landing obligation, achieve fishing at sectors. Scotland has world-renowned produce sustainable levels and help to deliver good but, although our produce is sent all around the environmental status. That can be achieved while world, we could do more to support our home retaining a profitable fishing sector, but it will market. Although we are an island country, we are require effort and commitment from all partners. not big consumers of seafood, and there could be We need to keep an eye on the prize of a fishing greater promotion of it, as well as a greater sector that has a future, without compromising our commitment to local sourcing. I hope for a positive marine environment. outcome from the good food nation consultation that is happening. As the cabinet secretary outlined, the already- agreed increase in the North Sea cod and The industry has a significant base in Scotland, haddock TAC for the next year is welcome. That but it operates throughout the UK, with a common will help to ease the introduction of the new CFP. regulatory system and a UK network of harbours The successful negotiation of inward transfers of and fish processors. That is reflected in some of haddock and whiting quota is also welcome, as the concerns that the Scottish Fishermen’s scientific evidence suggests that those stocks are Federation raised about the quota consultation, in good shape. which I will say a bit more about later. In the fisheries debate last year, Labour’s The drama of previous years may be on the way amendment called for a clear plan of action to out, but the importance and complexity of the EU introduce the discard ban. I hope that I can be negotiations are increasing, as they are not just convinced today that that is in place and that the about allocating effort but about changing the Government is supporting the sector in the efforts system to meet the CFP’s environmental that have to be made. objectives. We should not forget why we are introducing a We are nearing the end of the negotiations. I discard ban. Discarding bycatch fish or fish whose support the Scottish Government’s key objectives quality was not high enough was a practice for going into the negotiations and wish the cabinet many years, particularly as the financial incentive secretary well in the final stages. increased. It took a television campaign and a We are looking to amend the motion to focus on public outcry to mobilise the movement against the key issues for the sector rather than sustain a that practice, whose time was up. That can be a debate about who represents it, when we all have good thing that will respect our seas and the a common view anyway. I have sympathy with the natural resource that they give us, and it can open cabinet secretary over recent decisions on who up new opportunities for the sector.

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Scotland has been a fishing nation at the decide on and are clear about the measures that forefront of good practice, and we should will need to be introduced and the expectation that recognise the commitment of much of our fleet to they will need to be delivered, there will be achieve that. That has taken investment and tough rewards. decisions. I recognise the frustration that there can By 2015, Scotland’s fleets must show that they be at the behaviour of other countries and the are doing all that is in their powers to fish at importance of the need for a level playing field, but sustainable levels and deliver maximum the new CFP is a further challenge for our sector. sustainable yield. That must be achieved by 2020 The nature of Scottish fishing will make it very at the latest. We need to develop a clear road map difficult to deliver a discard plan. We need to now that will set us on the right path for the next ensure that we have robust plans in place to few years. The emphasis is often seen as being deliver. on the restrictive measures of selectivity, temporal Last year, the cabinet secretary spoke about the and spatial management and behaviour change, need for the European Commission to provide but we should also work out ways to reward the fishermen with additional quota to enable the good guys—the fleets that are taking the landing of all fish that are caught. He argued that responsibility seriously and delivering on the the Commission must give us the tools to put in environmental objectives. place a sensible and practical discards ban. I do The Scottish Government has consulted on not disagree on the need for greater flexibility, quota allocation policy. The cabinet secretary will which is crucial, but we also need greater regional be aware that the period of restriction has been decision making and planning that increasingly problematic or detrimental for some UK operators identify and make best use of a shared quota and in Scotland. I understand that there has so far resource. been little evidence of quota being held We also need a plan from the Scottish speculatively or as an investment. However, the Government. We need a clear indication of the Scottish Government makes a case that the quota measures that it expects to be introduced and of is Scotland’s national asset, and I await the what checks and balances it will bring into the outcome of its consultation. sector to reward those who fish responsibly and If there are changes, they could present the work to meet the new standard. If fleets are opportunity to create a pool of quota, which could struggling to change or are resistant to change, be used to recognise the efforts that fleets make to they should be supported to adapt, or compliance comply. That could be used to reward vessels that measures can be introduced. provide social and economic benefit to Next year, there will be huge challenges for our communities—vessels that support fishing mixed fisheries. There will be huge difficulties. We communities, provide employment opportunities do not have the right quota at the moment, but and support a local economy—as well as a vibrant there will be ways to make things easier. offshore sector. Scotland has been at the forefront of selective I move amendment S4M-11825.3, to leave out gears, but we can do more in that area. Too many from second “and supports” to end and insert: vessels are not using identified selective gear. We “; believes that the European Commission must deliver need to consider spatial management measures if greater flexibility and regionalisation to achieve this, and we are to focus on avoiding catching unwanted calls on the Scottish Government to set out a clear plan of fish. We need investment in research and action to ensure that the discard ban is implemented and development to support work in our universities to sufficiently monitored.” develop innovative solutions. An increased or changed quota is of course 16:11 important, but we must also work hard to develop Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) markets for less popular species. The Scottish (Con): I am pleased to take part in this important Government’s economic analysis identifies debate on the annual EU fisheries negotiations, offsetting economic benefits of that. Introducing which commence on 15 December. The outcome measures that will enable the landing and selling of the negotiations is vital to Scotland’s of all fish that are currently discarded, or fishermen—the people who risk their lives to put increasing selectivity so that no unwanted fish are fish on our tables—its processors and the fishing caught in the first place, has the potential to add communities along our coastlines. up to £200 million to the landed value by 2020. We agree with the Scottish Government that our We need more flexibility from the Commission, Scottish vessels need to retain the number of days but that will take us only so far. The approach that they can go to sea and that cuts are simply means changes for our fleets but, if we start not acceptable. We are encouraged that last planning now for the challenges ahead and if we week’s EU-Norway talks resulted in an increase in

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quota allocations for a number of key stocks for I agree with the sensible suggestion in Tavish Scottish fishermen, including cod, haddock and Scott’s amendment that a phased approach must plaice. I am also encouraged by what the cabinet be considered. secretary told us about hopes for an increase in The Scottish Pelagic Fishermen’s Association, west coast haddock. the Scottish Pelagic Processors Association and Those increases are in line with scientific the Shetland Fishermen’s Association are all clear advice. The stocks are in good health in large part that another priority for their industry is the need to due to the sacrifices that our Scottish fleet has achieve a fairer deal in terms of the EU-Faroes made over the long and difficult period of the cod mackerel fishery quota access agreement, which recovery plan and to the innovative and important currently is totally skewed in favour of the Faroes. conservation measures that our vessels adopted, Between 2007 and 2013, the Faroes never which have been significant and have surpassed exceeded a mackerel catch of 8,771 tonnes in by far any other EU fleet’s efforts. EU—that is, Scottish—waters off Shetland. The vessel numbers in our demersal fleet have However, in 2014, that catch was a massive declined by around 60 per cent compared with the 46,850 tonnes. The level of the mackerel access numbers during the first session of the Parliament. quota must be addressed. Why do the Faroes The EU needs to recognise that fact in next require a third of their quota to be fished off the week’s talks. If further effort reduction is proposed, Scottish coastline when the mackerel stock has the cabinet secretary must ensure that the burden become so much more abundant in their own falls on other EU states and not Scotland’s waters? The current situation means that the fishermen, who have already done much. Our Faroes are benefiting hugely from catching Scottish fleet must now be able to enjoy some of mackerel in prime condition in our waters while not the benefits after the pain of the last decade and a one kilo of the EU’s mackerel quota has been half or more. caught in the Faroese zone. Fishermen and their representatives have asked The nephrops fishery remains an important and me to highlight a number of the key issues facing economically valuable one on the west coast of their sectors, and I am most happy to do so. my region, and its associated jobs help to underpin often fragile local communities. I share One of the key, most pressing and immediate the real concern of the Clyde Fishermen’s issues facing our pelagic fishermen is the Association about the proposal for a significant cut implementation of the discard ban—or landing in catch in the Firth of Clyde functional unit, obligation—in their sector from the start of 2015. although I note with some relief that there is a Scottish pelagic fishermen rightly want to ensure projected rise in the South Minch area. Nephrops that a level playing field for the control, monitoring fishermen in the Clyde area want to know what and enforcement of the ban is truly achieved measures Marine Scotland will take to reverse the across all the pelagic boats that fish in EU waters, trend, and the Clyde Fishermen’s Association is whether the vessels are from third countries or urging it to look again at its proposals that the other member states. I know that the cabinet minimum nephrops tail size be raised from 35mm secretary agrees with that. That level playing field to 46mm, and the overall length from 70mm to is vital. 85mm. There is clearly also a huge amount of work to I also want to mention the possible consultation be done next year to prepare for the introduction on scallop fishing that has been pushed for by the of the landing obligation for the demersal sector in Clyde Fishermen’s Association since 1995. 2016, which will bring even greater challenges than the introduction in the pelagic sector. There On my amendment to today’s motion, I would are real concerns in the white-fish sector about the just refer to previous comments that have been practical implications of the discard ban. Working made by Bertie Armstrong. I do not wish to be out a usable scheme that does not penalise our called arrogant— white-fish boats must be a big priority for next The Deputy Presiding Officer: You must draw year. to a close. Bertie Armstrong, of the Scottish Fishermen’s Jamie McGrigor: I will finish, then. Federation, has described the process leading to the landing obligation laws as Bertie Armstrong said that the industry was very “a shining beacon of dysfunction” much less concerned about who sits in the seats and was more concerned, in every detail, about that has the potential to do what is said and what is in the speaking notes of “significant damage to the fishing industry and communities the minister or his representative. The cabinet of Scotland.” secretary knows that the UK Government has

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consistently and successfully worked with him and Next month, the Scottish Government will his officials— implement a discard ban on the pelagic sector. A basic minimalist plan is in place. With a clean The Deputy Presiding Officer: You must fishery, where mackerel and herring swim and are close. caught in mid-water shoals, the discard ban is Jamie McGrigor: I conclude by wishing the relatively straightforward, but that cannot be said cabinet secretary the best of luck. for Scotland’s white-fish fleet. I move amendment S4M-11825.2, to leave out From January 2016, the industry will have to live from second “and supports” to end and insert: with a fishing practice that logic suggests is entirely correct and desirable. Landing all fish “; considers that Scotland benefits from the UK’s negotiating strength in Europe, and urges Scottish and UK rather than throwing valuable quota species over ministers to work together to achieve the best possible deal the side is absolutely right, but the devil will for Scotland’s fishermen.” assuredly be in the detail, as Richard Lochhead acknowledged. Landing everything that is caught at sea in a mixed fishery within the existing quota 16:18 system is fraught with risks and could lead to Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD): I am disastrous consequences for some of our delighted, if a little surprised, to be speaking in this demersal fleet. debate. The detonation of a weather bomb and the consequential disruption to flights has meant that I recognise that Marine Scotland has changed my colleague Tavish Scott is marooned in its perspective on implementation and that the Shetland. Given the vital importance of the fishing hard line appears to have softened, which is to be industry to Shetland and of these negotiations to welcomed, but a discard ban for the white-fish that industry, Tavish Scott’s absence from this fleet must be realistic. It should start not with four debate is a loss. I know that he would want to species—cod, saith, haddock and whiting—but extend his apologies to you, Presiding Officer, and instead with just haddock. Once a comprehensive to colleagues for his absence. assessment has been made of the effectiveness of the ban on haddock and the financial I was struck by the fact that almost one quarter consequences for the vessels are clear, further of all fish that is landed in the UK is landed in steps can and should be taken. I urge the cabinet Shetland. More fish was landed in Shetland in secretary to accept that approach and to work with 2013 than was landed in Wales, England and the industry to deliver a ban that can work not just Northern Ireland put together. Although I do not in principle but in practice, which I believe is a pretend that the figures for my constituency in shared objective of many of the environmental Orkney match those for Shetland, it is non-governmental organisations. nevertheless a sector that is vitally important economically and socially to the islands that I At present, the consequences of a ban are represent. These negotiations, and those that simple. If quotas are not significantly increased, coincide with them, matter a great deal. boats will go out of business, as they will run out of quota as they land all the fish in port—cod is the This year, unlike last, most of the deal appears obvious example of that. An increase in quota and already to have been done. The EU-Norway a land-all policy would have implications for vessel negotiations settled last week and the Faroese design, operation and capacity. Three quarters of access agreements were settled earlier today. the vessels in the Scottish fishing fleet are over 20 According to the SFF, there will not be a lot to fight years old, and many are much older and need to about next week in Brussels. Those are perhaps be replaced. That is a nationwide problem, and the famous last words, but as someone who bears the Government should look to assist with vessel scars of the round-the-clock negotiations and replacement by utilising the European maritime middle-of-the-night compromise agreements from fishing fund. The industry should be encouraged to back in the day, I certainly welcome the situation look again at vessel design, new engine types and and concur with the cabinet secretary’s description fuel mixes as well as other innovations that are of previous processes as “bun fights”. aimed at reducing carbon burn. I welcome Marine Of course, that is not to say that there will not be Scotland’s acknowledgement that the issue must challenges. In a sector that is so varied, that has be addressed, although perhaps the cabinet gone through so much change and that operates secretary can make clear where he stands on that. in such an environment, one would expect nothing The Faroese access agreements have been less. Perhaps one of the most obvious challenges, finalised in London. Sadly, the unfair deal that certainly for the demersal fleet, is the rewards the Faroese for illegal fishing of mackerel implementation of the discard ban, which is set to stay until 2019. No one in the Scottish colleagues have referred to. pelagic catching or processing sector thinks that it is a good deal. The agreements are meant to be

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reciprocal, but there seems precious little gain for “; believes that, before the ban on discards is introduced, our fleet and processors. The Faroese said that the Scottish Government should ensure that a their waters are teeming with mackerel. It is comprehensive plan is prepared setting out how the ban will work in practice without damaging Scotland’s whitefish therefore puzzling that, instead of fishing in their sector; notes the desire of the Scottish industry to see a coastal waters, the entire Faroese pelagic fleet phased approach implemented to the discard ban for the has fished right up to the Scottish coastal limits. main whitefish stocks due to come into effect in January Imagine the outrage if the reverse was happening. 2016; further notes the industry’s wish for any such phased There seems to be no upside for our pelagic and approach to proceed initially with haddock, and recognises the strong concerns of the Scottish pelagic industry demersal sectors in the reciprocal arrangements, regarding the EU-Faroese reciprocal arrangements on which is something that the cabinet secretary mackerel.” might need to take forward.

Richard Lochhead: Will the member give way? 16:25 Liam McArthur: Sorry, but I am running out of Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan time. Perhaps the cabinet secretary can address Coast) (SNP): When I came to Parliament in June the issue in his winding-up speech. 2001, my very first speech was on fisheries. In that speech I harked back to the work of Allan The final part of the Government motion calls for Macartney, a member of the European Parliament, Mr Lochhead to lead the delegation, which is in relation to localities management. It was he who almost as much part of the annual ritual as the championed the change of approach that we see a December negotiations themselves. As I have said little of in the progress that is being made in before, what matters most is to ensure that the UK European fisheries policy. On that basis, I very position reflects the priorities of the Scottish much welcome the call in Labour’s amendment for industry and that that is then backed up with UK “greater flexibility and regionalisation”. That votes. Ensuring that those positions are arrived at focuses on some important things. sensibly and reflect the relative importance of different parts of the sector is key. The very least that I can say is that all three Opposition parties have been unwise in proposing Despite what Mr Lochhead said, the Smith to delete what the Government motion says about agreement makes it clear that the Scottish our fisheries minister, the most experienced in ministers should lead the UK delegation. Of Europe, leading the UK delegation course, there needs to be agreement with the Welsh, English and Northern Irish on the UK “where it is clearly appropriate to do so”. negotiating position, but in many areas, notably The motion is not seeking an absolute right; it with pelagic and white-fish stocks, the Scottish proposes only that the minister leads when interest will be and should be the predominant appropriate. one. Let us consider the issues for fisherman in other Should the UK Government have sent an parts of the UK besides Scotland. It helps them to unelected lord to the fisheries council instead of have the most experienced minister at the table. Richard Lochhead, if he could have been there? The issue is not simply about, as the Tory motion No. That is why the Smith agreement says, benefiting from recommends an intergovernmental arrangement that works: a Scottish lead backed by UK votes. I “the UK’s negotiating strength in Europe”, hope that the Scottish Government will back such but about the UK benefiting from the strength of an approach. After all, the experience that a Scottish fisheries minister would representatives on the Smith commission sensibly bring to the table. endorsed that approach in signing the agreement. I do not know the member of the House of Lords The Deputy Presiding Officer: You must draw who led the UK delegation. He may be an to a close. excellent person. We address only the issue of his Liam McArthur: In the aftermath of the vote in inexperience and the fact that he works in a very favour of the UK, the fishing industry made it different brief. As far as I could see in my crystal clear that it expects both Scotland’s research, his sole parliamentary contact with Governments to work collectively and fishing had been to answer three written questions collaboratively in the interests of the industry. on it on the same day in October 2013. I rather Parliament should expect that to be the case today guess—as I former minister I might say this—that and, more importantly, next week in Brussels. I civil servants wrote the answers and did not draw wish Richard Lochhead and his officials all the on the minister’s knowledge. No doubt we will best in their endeavours. return to that matter on another occasion. I move amendment S4M-11825.1, to leave out The SFF has provided us with a briefing, which I from second “and supports” to end and insert: very much welcome and which highlights the

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adverse interaction between old, unreformed and speaking to the audience in the fishermen’s as yet not abandoned legislation and the new mission at Peterhead than he was diving off the schemes that seek to eliminate discards. It is in boat. Little he knows—one is easy and the other precisely that kind of area that an experienced one is difficult. fisheries minister will always sacrifice an I share my apologies with members here. A inexperienced one. rather urgent matter will take me away and I will We have heard some of the difficulties that the not necessarily be here for the next two speeches, pelagic fleet faces, less from biological factors and but I will return for the closing speeches. much more fundamentally from political decisions vis-à-vis the relationship between the Faroes and 16:31 the EU and, of course, the developing difficulties for the industry in relation to trade with Russia. Cara Hilton (Dunfermline) (Lab): I welcome the opportunity to speak in today’s debate on an The Scottish Pelagic Processors Association issue of great importance to the Scottish economy, points out that restrictive legislation from Tórshavn our fishermen and our coastal communities. seems to be designed to distort the market and is Across Scotland, many people’s livelihoods are adding burdens to our industry. Fish caught in dependent on the fishing industry and we need to Scottish waters by Faroese boats are required, in ensure that it is protected not only by taking short- essence, to be landed in the Faroes. That is term actions but by showing long-term vision for probably not much in the interest of Faroese the sector, too. We need to protect our fishermen because it restricts their market environment and resources by ensuring that opportunities. More fundamentally, it is potentially fishing is at a sustainable level and protect our restricting our processing industry’s opportunities. fishing industry by ensuring that it can be We have seen many years of sacrifice in our profitable both now and in the future and that it is fishing industry. The number of boats has come able to reach out to new entrants. down, although that decline has more or less As colleagues have said, 2015 is likely to be a stabilised, and total allowable catches are going turning point for the Scottish and European fishing up this year, which is very good news. That is sectors, with the first phase of the landing because of our fishermen’s sacrifices. However, obligation coming into effect on 1 January. That where previously that quota might have been used represents a huge change and a challenge for the usefully to increase economically valuable fishing industry and, in theory, it should mean that, landings, it is quite likely that a lot of the quota will ultimately, all catch will be landed and counted have to be allocated to fish that might have been against quotas. discarded. Therefore, it is not clear that we have a system under the EU rules that will be of value to As Claire Baker highlighted, that is quite a our fishermen to the extent that a better-thought- groundbreaking change. It came about thanks to out fishing quota system would be. huge public pressure, with Hugh Fearnley- Whittingstall’s award-winning fish fight campaign Of course the catching sector is very important, gaining more than 850,000 supporters, who were but even bigger is the processing sector. Many united in the call to end the crazy system whereby people are employed in processing, packaging millions of healthy and edible fish every year are and promoting our food. In my constituency there caught and then thrown back into the sea due to are thousands of such people. the bizarre way that EU fishing quotas are I recently attended a Seafish presentation. I was managed. Very few campaigns succeed in very impressed by the interaction that those who changing EU law, but fish fight certainly captured retail our fish, either as wet fish or in our the public imagination and changed the way that restaurants, have with Scotland. We want to get we think about and eat our fish. more Scots eating this good-quality product, for The effective implementation of the discard ban their health but also for the health of our industry. is now absolutely crucial and that is why Scottish The SFF welcomes what has happened in the Labour’s amendment today calls on the Scottish negotiations with the EU and Norway this year, Government to set out a clear plan of action to which is good. The SPPA is much less happy ensure that the ban is implemented effectively and about the Faroese tax position. Seeing cod quota monitored sufficiently. and haddock quota rising is absolutely first class. The Scottish Fishermen’s Federation and others The price of fishing for the fishermen at sea is have expressed concern that the European legal high. My very first constituency event in 2001 was arrangements may not be in place on time, which to see a bravery award presented to a fisherman, creates uncertainties for fleets during the transition who in January of that year went overboard near period that need to be addressed and managed. Greenland to fish out one of his colleagues. He said that he was more frightened going up and

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Colleagues have referred to the particular seemed to be the full extent of what was on offer. challenges with white fish. The changes in that That needs to be looked at. regard will become effective from 2016. In the Given the issues that people have about how to briefing for today’s debate, RSPB Scotland and cook fish, practical lessons in school would be of WWF Scotland highlight the need to promote more benefit. Our children also need to have a much uptake of selective gear on fishing vessels and greater appreciation of where their food is from spatial management systems to avoid the catching and, in the case of fish, how they are caught and of unwanted fish. They warn that half of the processed from start to finish. That will ensure that demersal fleet is not yet using the identified our children can make good choices, live healthier selective gear. We need a clear action plan from lifestyles and become more educated shoppers the Scottish Government on how it will work with and consumers in future. the industry to meet those challenges. I share the concerns expressed by the cabinet Although it is clear that change will be very secretary and by Stewart Stevenson about fishing difficult for some fleets, the RSPB and WWF being a dangerous industry. It is estimated that highlight that there are also longer-term financial one in 1,000 fishermen a year die as a result of opportunities. It is estimated that eliminating the job—that is more than 100 times the rate of discards from Scottish vessels, either by landing the average job in Scotland—and many more are and selling all fish or by increasing selectivity so injured in the course of their work. I understand that no unwanted fish are caught in the first place, that there has been little improvement in the fatal has the potential to add up to £200 million to the accident rate in the Scottish fishing industry in the landed value of those fish by 2020. Sustainable past 30 years. Given that the fatal accident rate in fishing will hopefully make financial, as well as almost every other occupation has fallen sharply environmental, sense. That is crucial, given the during the same period, that suggests that importance of the fishing industry to our economy commercial fishing has become progressively and given that the livelihoods of thousands of more hazardous over time. I would welcome any Scots in our coastal communities are dependent comments from the cabinet secretary on what on fishing continuing to thrive. Across Scotland, an action the Scottish Government is taking to make estimated 5,000 people are employed directly in fishing a safer career. That would make the fishing and as many as 48,000 jobs are dependent industry more appealing to new entrants and on the sector. would be of benefit to families and our coastal The fish processing sector, which Stewart communities. Stevenson mentioned, is vital to our economy, yet We are nearing the end of this year’s fish that, too, can be vulnerable and we need action to negotiations. It is vital that the Scottish support it and improve its sustainability. Key to Government does whatever it can to ensure that that must be promoting our fantastic produce to Scotland gets the full benefits of the reformed the domestic market. We are all aware that eating common fisheries policy; that the discard ban is fish is healthy and that we should be eating more implemented as quickly as possible; and that of it but, generally, many of us find it complicated those fleets that are adapting to the challenges are to cook and are reluctant to try new fish. Much rewarded, thereby ensuring a vibrant and more needs to be done to promote fish as a sustainable future for our fishing industry and for sustainable, affordable, healthy and easy option. the jobs, families and communities it sustains. The Scottish Government’s good food nation strategy offers that opportunity and I hope that we 16:37 will see that as the consultation outcome. Campaigns such as Sainsbury’s switch the fish Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and initiative are crucial in changing customer Ross) (SNP): The SNP Government fights hard in behaviour, and similar campaigns by other Brussels for the whole Scottish fish sector, retailers need to be encouraged to persuade including fish processors and producers, and it will people to eat a wider range of fish and not just the do so next week. big five, and to highlight that our everyday choices At this annual review of fishing, it is important for can secure a sustainable future for our fishing us to think about what could strengthen Scotland’s industry. position to back our ministers. As a member of the Schools have a big role to play in explaining the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee and importance of fish in the diet and creating having had the chance to look at some of the opportunities for children to give different types of Smith commission proposals, I suggest that we fish a try. When I was writing my speech this need to make sure that the respect agenda that morning, I looked at my children’s school dinner was talked about earlier this year is applied to the menu and found that, although Harry Ramsden’s way in which Scottish ministers are engaged in battered haddock is a frequent option, that representing our country when their appropriate

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stance would help to strengthen that approach in need to get off the bottom rung of the ladder of the Europe. European fisheries fund and much more. So, The consultation on becoming a good food “presuming that a devolved administration Minister can nation, which Stewart Stevenson mentioned, was speak on behalf of the UK at a meeting of the Council of discussed in more detail by Claire Baker and Cara Ministers according to an agreed UK negotiating line where Hilton. It is part of a long-term strategy to get the devolved administration Minister holds the predominant people to eat better by 2025. A key theme in that policy interest across the UK and where the relevant lead unfinished business is people’s disconnectedness UK Government Minister is unable to attend all or part of a from their food. As the discussion document says: meeting” “Many people in Scotland are disconnected from their is a suggestion from the Scottish Government on food. There are considerable efforts being made in schools how that can be achieved. It is remarkable how and elsewhere, to engage with children. Nevertheless, some people have commented on the need for many people of all ages in Scotland remain profoundly that to happen all the time. unaware of how and where the food they eat—and its ingredients—are produced.” In that regard, I refer members to the moneys that we get through the European fisheries funds. However, on the up side, the document notes the The Scottish Parliament information centre has upsurge in demand for local food and talks about shown us that, for the 2007 to 2013 allocation, on “encouraging the production and sale of locally grown food euro per tonne of average fisheries production, in all its shapes and sizes.” Scotland is bottom among countries that have Our inshore fleet, in particular, supplies local fishing fleets; on euro per tonne of average fish markets and produces much food that should be catch, Scotland is second bottom; and, on euro sold around Scotland. In Scrabster, Kinlochbervie, per average gross tonnage, Scotland is second Lochinver and Ullapool there are 174 boats under bottom. Scotland’s fishing fleet has been badly let 10m and 45 boats over 10m. It is up to our down by our not having a Scottish minister lead Government and agencies to procure fish to a the negotiations in Europe, to ensure that funds greater extent and to ensure that our apply to our area, with all its difficulties and its wild schoolchildren, hospital patients and prisoners, as seas. well as the wider public, have a chance to eat the It might be a good idea to ask why the best of Scottish. Conservatives have been prepared to say, as I support the motion in the name of the cabinet Jamie McGrigor did on 12 June, that it would be secretary. wrong for fishing communities in Scotland to receive more money from the European fisheries fund, and to suggest that the Scottish fishing 16:43 industry is too successful to need extra support. Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP): Indeed, Ian Duncan, the recently elected Tory For anyone who is hearing me speak for the first member of the European Parliament, was rightly time, let me declare that this French-born MSP criticised for claiming that Scotland’s fishing has worked in the Scottish fishing industry for the industry should not receive vital funding. He said past 30 years. I have been honoured to represent in May: the many fishing communities in the north-east, “The funds should go to those places which are from Fraserburgh to Peterhead, since May 2013. struggling. The Scottish industry is not struggling.” We must await the outcome of the negotiations, I was amazed that the chief executive of the but I agree with members that the talks are going Scottish Fishermen’s Federation took a similar much better than they did in the past few years. stance during a discussion on the radio about Lord The main reason why the negotiations will be Ponsonby de Mauley. Bertie Armstrong said: easier this year is that we have settled the mackerel dispute. As I said at the time, people in “Well, all the priorities that spread across the UK, and of course again this sounds slightly odd coming from the Scotland need to recognise that our fishing Scottish fishing leaders”— communities have nothing to gain from letting disputes in the pelagic sector run on for years. The or rather, Scottish fishing leader; other Scottish white-fish industry, which needs our support, fishing leaders were appalled at Bertie suffered from the dispute. Armstrong’s remarks. That gentleman went on to say: There is a lesson to be learned in that regard: what we require is fewer disputes and more “I’m thinking of Irish Sea prawns for the Northern Ireland fleet and I am thinking of the Celtic Sea haddock for the partnership with our neighbours. Let us ensure men of the Southwest”. that the bilateral talks between the EU and the Faroe Islands on the pelagic industry, which take Yes, indeed. Our Scottish fishing leaders should place in Ireland this week, do not spill over to the be out there fighting for Scottish fishermen. We

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white-fish industry. Jamie McGrigor did not talk chamber to think that such a comment sounds odd about that. coming from someone who represents the Scottish fishing industry’s interests? I share the concerns of Ian McFadden, the chair of the Scottish Pelagic Processors Association— I remind members of what happened last month. whom I first met 30 years ago—and thank him for Westminster sent to speak in crucial EU talks for his briefing. the Scottish fishing industry an unelected Conservative lord, Lord de Mauley, with no The tone of our negotiations must show our previous experience whatsoever in fishing. Is he willingness to negotiate with others. The tone that the best man to talk about fishing on behalf of some use in talking about the challenges that are Ulstermen or people in the south-west? I think not. faced by the Scottish fishing industry is more We can all agree that it is never appropriate for an about driving an anti-European agenda, which unelected lord who knows nothing about fishing to should be left to members of the UK speak for our fishermen, Ulstermen or not. Independence Party. The UK Government proves again that it could The Scottish fishing industry deserves better, as not care less about our fishing communities. does what is left of the fishing industry in other Fishing is never on Westminster’s radar. The parts of the UK. I repeat that the cabinet secretary Scottish Government is doing a lot for fishing and is the most experienced fishing minister in Europe wants to do more. Fishing leaders need to support and should be sitting at the main table and the call for the cabinet secretary to sit in the front speaking for the people who represent the fishing seat, and they need to be foursquare behind him. communities throughout Scotland. Claire Baker: The member might be interested Some disagree, but I will explain why their to note that Westminster is debating fisheries arguments do not hold water. Last month, the negotiations on Thursday this week. National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations, which is the representative body for fishermen in Christian Allard: I did not know about that—I England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Channel will be very pleased to hear about the debate. I Islands, said that its members’ interests were hope that, at Westminster, the parties will not do “in danger of being sacrificed to placate the clamour for as the three political parties here have done in more powers for Scotland.” lodging amendments to remove a very important part of the cabinet secretary’s motion that says The NFFO was reacting to the Scottish that the fisheries minister in Scotland should play Government’s submission to the Smith a part in the talks, particularly in relation to the commission, but it does not need to worry: the Smith commission. suggestion is still in the background and has been very much diluted. Common sense and flexibility should be the two principles for fishing negotiations; that is what we I understand the hostility towards further hear all the time. devolution to Scotland as a direct result of the democratic deficit that is experienced by the The Deputy Presiding Officer: The member industry in England. Unlike the other parts of the must draw to a close, please. UK, the English industry does not have a Christian Allard: I call on the cabinet secretary Parliament or devolved body that can stand up for to address the problem of the closure of skate and its interests. We know that the UK Parliament is ray fisheries in the north-east and west of not looking out for the fishing industry, particularly Scotland. We must make sure that lessons have in Scotland, given that the Scottish fleet has been been learned to avoid a repeat of the unfortunate described as “expendable”. situation that happened this year. I was surprised to hear, as Rob Gibson mentioned earlier, that our own Scottish 16:49 Fishermen’s Federation chief executive seems to agree with the NFFO. On 10 November, on Radio Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab): I Scotland, Bertie Armstrong said: am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate and for the range of briefings, which I have “Is Richard Lochhead the best man to state those found very informative, that I received from various priorities? He is certainly the best man, providing he talks to organisations before the debate. us carefully and the priorities are agreed. He is certainly the best man to talk about Scottish fishing, but is he the best Jamie McGrigor acknowledged the pain that has man to talk about the fishing for Ulstermen or people in the been felt and the sacrifices that have been made Southwest? I think not.” over the decades by people in the industry, as “I think not”—that was the answer from the chief revolution has attached to the industry, and they executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation have reorganised to deal with modern demands. to his own question. Am I the only member in the Stewart Stevenson indicated the outcomes from

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those previous works and the way in which the future generations and to provide for an industry industry is now fit for purpose, in delivering on that has a vision of sustainability. behalf of the United Kingdom. The cabinet secretary must continue his support Stewart Stevenson also recorded that our for the brave crews who go out on the sea on our cabinet secretary is the longest-serving fisheries behalf. The increases in quotas for the end-of-year minister in Europe. I am unsure whether to agreements are optimistic, and one hopes that congratulate Mr Lochhead on the honour or to those agreements will be fulfilled. The cabinet commiserate and wonder where he has gone secretary must ensure that the new rules wrong in his endeavours. It is most unfortunate regarding discards are made clear to the industry that the UK Tory-Lib Dem coalition decided to and the public alike, because discards are ill allocate responsibility for the negotiations last understood by the general population and seem to month in Brussels to Lord de Mauley to represent have been an area of conflict in previous years. UK interests, instead of relying on the evident The cabinet secretary should also contribute to expertise of our cabinet secretary. I hope that Mr the continued development of new technologies, Lochhead will reflect on the fact that the frenetic new net designs and crew education to ensure promotion of nationalism over the past few years that mutual understanding is maintained about the has perhaps had some influence on such competing demands that arise from conservation decisions and that his contribution in the post- needs and consumer demands. referendum era will be more welcome at UK level and more constructively received. He must also ensure that there is no repeat of the black-fish scandal that affected the industry Christian Allard: I would not call Lord Smith a only a few years ago. I hope that he will give us an nationalist, but his commission has stated that the assurance that he will liaise with the Cabinet concordat on co-ordination of European Union Secretary for Justice to ensure that the good name policy issues needs to be improved. That of Scottish fishing is maintained in the years improvement is exactly what the cabinet secretary ahead. has asked for today and it is what the Labour Party’s amendment would take out of the motion. At the same time, it would do no harm for Mr Lochhead to liaise with his colleague the Cabinet Graeme Pearson: As the debate goes on, the Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning in nuances in the debate will bring out where our order to ensure that young people across Scotland loyalty should lie in regard to the fishing industry, have a better understanding of the fish that are which is the most important part of what we are caught in our seas than I did in my time in debating today rather than the language of the education. various amendments. The Scottish industry delivers approximately 60 The way in which the developing conflict per cent of the total UK catch and about 7.5 per involving the western world and Russia is affecting cent of the total volume of fish caught in the EU, our fishing industry reflects the importance of our according to the European Commission in 2014. discussions today, and the Commission’s The fishing industry is too important an industry for agreement to enable the 25 per cent rollover in us not to take careful care of the future, and I rely allocated catches from 2014-15 will help the on the cabinet secretary to give us an assurance Scottish fishing industry to cope with the import that he will do so. embargoes that have been instigated by Mr Putin, which are estimated to be costing the wider food industry up to £89 million in the year. 16:55 Fisheries in Scotland operate as a Cinderella Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and industry across most of our communities. We Badenoch) (SNP): This is, indeed, an important enjoy the products that it produces but seldom debate that precedes the implementation in consider how they are brought to our table and the January of what many believe will be the final nail pressures that are faced by the people in the in the coffin of Scottish fishing—the discards ban. industry in providing first-class fish that is fresh The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Food and safe for consumption. The policy imperatives and Environment, Richard Lochhead, has done for ensuring that the industry’s needs are met are the best that he has been able to do for our complex but inescapable. We have a growing fishermen for many years, despite having his world population that is now in excess of 9 billion hands tied behind his back by the Westminster people, all of whom need food. The industry has Government and a dysfunctional EU common geared up to supply what is needed with modern fisheries policy. boats, modern technologies and professional crews who are able to deliver catches at industrial Baron de Mauley has been mentioned. Far be it level. However, there is also pressure to conserve from me to criticise him, but such was the stocks of valuable fish in order to provide food for confidence of the Scottish Fishermen’s

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Organisation in him that it described him as that he did not speak for many of our fishing “clueless” and said that it communities, and it is possible that he did not “doubted that he had spent much time on Eton’s playing speak for many of his organisation’s members. I fields discussing black scabbards and the discards ban.” suggest that those members need to decide whether they have the right leadership. I could not have put it better myself. What that episode illustrates is that, yet again, the UK Armstrong is not totally uncritical of the UK, Government has treated us with contempt and however, and has described the discard ban as a cannot be relied on in crucial EU negotiations that “shining beacon of dysfunction”, but he still insists, concern Scottish fisheries. in his briefing for today’s debate, that there is a bright future for Scottish fishing. Does he really Of course, we all had a chance to untie the believe that, or is he wearing his rose-tinted UK cabinet secretary’s hands on 18 September but, specs again? I hope that he is right, but it does not unfortunately, we did not take it. We loosened the look good unless we get the discards ban right. knots, but full freedom for the cabinet secretary— and the rest of us—is yet to come. The Scottish In contrast with Armstrong, the Fishermen’s National Party Government has done all that it has Association Ltd’s recent submission to the Smith been able to do to protect our fishermen and commission backs my view that Scotland is not fishing communities, but we have not been able to being served well by the UK in EU fishing do so to the extent that we would have liked—not negotiations. It states that, because the because of lack of will, but because of lack of Department for Environment, Food and Rural power. Affairs holds the power in all EU and UK fisheries matters, that puts Scotland in a marginalised I was born and brought up in the great fishing position, which results in decisions being taken town of Lossiemouth, whose harbour was packed that are not in the best interests of Scotland. with fishing boats when I was a boy and whose school delivered qualifications in navigation, such FAL maintains that Scotland should be able to was the demand for fishermen in Lossiemouth. lead the UK in the EU on fisheries, especially Indeed, one of my first jobs at the age of 12 was given the importance of fishing to the Scottish heading and tailing prawns after school in the fish economy. FAL rightly points to the unmitigated shed that belonged to the well-known local firm, disaster that the common fisheries policy has been Seagull. I also led my first strike there at the age of to the Scottish and, indeed, UK fishing industry. 14, when we prawn boys walked out after a The association’s chairman, Sandy Patience of dispute over pay. Avoch, whom I know well, told the Scottish discards steering group on 27 November that FAL Many of my family went to sea, and some of has no desire to be further involved in the discards them still go to sea. We have, of course, suffered ban, which he describes as unworkable and our share of tragedy, as all families in fishing impractical, fearing that it will crush what is left of communities have. I have been to sea a number of the industry. I fear that he is right. times in the Moray Firth, the Minch and off the Butt of Lewis, but only for a day at a time. Some Although I support the cabinet secretary in his people, including Sandy Patience of the efforts to implement what is a flawed policy, I ask Fishermen’s Association Ltd, have spent their lives him to be ready to argue for its abandonment if he there. I can also lay claim to having written the does not get a suitable agreement next week in SNP’s fishing policy in the 1970s, when we these—as the motion says—“pivotal” negotiations responded to the Opposition claim that SNP stood or if the policy does not work for the pelagic fleet for “still no policies”. next year. If that means defying Brussels on this important issue, so be it. Therefore, as someone who has great empathy with our fishing industry, I found it particularly As a Lossie loon fae a fishin toun masel, Ah’m galling to listen to Bertie Armstrong, chief wi Avoch loon, Sandy Patience, and FAL, as they executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, strive to protect their way of life, heritage and backing the better together campaign and the UK birthright. in the referendum. He backed a UK that sold out our fishermen in 1971, when the Tories signed us 17:02 up for Europe; a UK that cares so little about fishing that it sent an inexperienced junior Tory to Liam McArthur: Not only have we just heard an represent us in Brussels; and a UK that is example of referendum denial, but that personal currently reneging—or trying as best it can to attack on Bertie Armstrong was outrageous, and renege—on its vow to give extensive powers to the call for him to be ousted comes in marked this Parliament. contrast to SNP members lining up both to praise him and to quote him in fisheries debates from I presume that Armstrong spoke on behalf of the 2007 onwards. Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, but I am sure

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By and large, however, this has been the usual overly simplistic impression of what needs to be generally consensual debate, with issues of done to resolve it. concern being raised from across the chamber. All In its briefing, RSPB Scotland points to the members have acknowledged the importance of importance of use of selective gear and other the sector not just to island communities, such as technical measures, and of rolling them out more the one that I represent, and coastal communities, widely across the fleet. That has featured in but far beyond. Cara Hilton made that point in her fisheries debates dating back as long as I can speech, and it was also alluded to by Stewart remember, and more still needs to be done on it. Stevenson in pointing out the importance of the processing sector. The importance of fisheries is Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab): economic, but the resonance of the fishing sector Without the fish fight campaign, the issue would goes far beyond that in the Scottish psyche. It is surely have been much less likely to be addressed an importance that cannot be measured simply in in as timely a fashion as it was addressed pounds and pence, or even in jobs. because of the consumer pressure. The annual negotiations, being the focus of the Liam McArthur: I do not want to diminish the debate, come against the backdrop of generally importance of such campaigns, but there is encouraging conclusions to the negotiations sometimes a risk that they paint in primary colours between the EU and Norway last week. The and leave the policy makers who are then charged agreement with the Faroes earlier today was with responsibility for responding with the difficult perhaps the best of a bad job, but it definitely still task of matching expectations to the complexity of grates with many people who work in the pelagic the issue. sector; there is still great anger in the industry. Finally, I turn to the political issue that ran As we look ahead to next week, there is no through today’s debate—who leads the doubting the fact that the negotiations look more delegation. As I said at the start of the debate, the straightforward than they have in the past, as was Smith agreement provides a sensible basis for acknowledged by the cabinet secretary. He made implementing a set of arrangements that better a valid point, however, about the extreme opening reflect the industry’s needs and the political negotiating positions that mean that an awful lot of aspirations of the public. On the Scottish effort is expended trying to row back from ministerial lead, there is no doubt, as Stewart positions that nobody realistically expects to hold. Stevenson said, that the delegation benefits from Nevertheless, that seems to be the modus the experience of not just the minister but the operandi of the Commission. officials who support him but, by the same token, Scottish ministers benefit from having the weight Jamie McGrigor and one or two other members of UK votes and influence behind them. pointed to the threat of further effort controls. I very much welcome Richard Lochhead’s strong We have not got that right, and the example that emphasis on the need to hold the line there. That was cited is a perfect illustration of that. The is an area where our industry has already Government’s motion talks in reasonable terms, conceded a great deal, so it is perhaps time for but some of the rhetoric that was used during the others to shoulder more of the responsibility. debate in order to make that point was considerably less reasonable. I think that Graeme I turn now to one of the key themes of the Pearson alluded to that. The respect agenda that debate: the discard ban. As I indicated in my Rob Gibson pointed to is a two-way street. opening speech, it generally poses far fewer problems for a pelagic fishery that is far cleaner. The Deputy Presiding Officer: You should From next year, that should be borne out. draw to a close, please. However, the discard ban, which is right in Liam McArthur: In concluding, I again wish the principle, needs to be got right in practice. In that cabinet secretary the best of luck in the respect, as we look to the demersal fishery and the implementation of a ban from 2016, we are not negotiations next week. Whatever seat he or his yet remotely close to where we need to be. I think officials are in, I hope that he continues to exert influence, that he brings to bear his experience that the potential for that to be significantly more and expertise and that he will continue to promote problematic is acknowledged all round. Scotland’s interests in the negotiations. I was interested in Cara Hilton’s reference to the fish fight campaign. There is no doubt that it captured the public imagination, but I question 17:08 whether it captured the complexity of the issue for Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West those who are then charged with responsibility for Dumfries) (Con): It makes a pleasant change to developing policy on the back of that. It brought to be holding this annual debate in an atmosphere people’s attention an issue that nobody disputes of—dare I say it?—some optimism about the must be addressed, but perhaps it also created an future prospects for Scotland’s fishing industry.

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Usually, the debate is full of doom and gloom, with the sector between now and 2020. Surely that grim forecasts of further cuts in quotas and days at must be worth the effort. The Scottish Government sea and worrying prophecies of the further demise is also required to do everything in its power to of our fishing fleet. encourage the use of innovative and proven selective fishing gear. We also support the What a credit it is to that fleet, and to all those industry’s plea to phase in the new regime for who work in the sector, that the Scottish white-fish stocks and I was pleased to hear that Fishermen’s Federation is able to conclude its the cabinet secretary appears to be sympathetic to briefing note to us with this statement: that approach. “There is one overarching fact and that is that the fish stocks of concern to the Scottish industry are, with few Another major concern has to be the outcome of exceptions, either in robust health or heading the EU-Faroe Islands agreement and its impact on encouragingly in that direction.” our pelagic fleet, although I noted what the cabinet secretary said about this morning’s agreement. It It goes on: is extraordinary that one third of the Faroese quota “There are some very significant challenges to be met— is caught off the Scottish coastline—and it all will principle among them is the discard ban—but if these can have been caught—while, as Ian Gatt of the be overcome and we look outwards to greater fishing opportunity rather than inwards towards protectionism, then Pelagic Fishermen’s Association has said there is surely a bright future for Scottish Sea Fishing”. “not one kilo of the EU’s mackerel quota has been caught in the Faroese zone.” In recent years, “greater fishing opportunity” is not a phrase that we have heard a lot. Whatever He asks a very reasonable question: continuing challenges remain, our hope must be “The Faroe Islands were granted a hugely increased that that air of optimism continues and that it is not mackerel share this year on the basis that mackerel is more long before discussions on “greater fishing abundant in their waters. Why do they then need to fish a opportunity”, and presumably a consequential third of their quota off the Scottish coastline?” expansion of our fleet, become the norm in these If this morning’s agreement has done anything debates, rather than the exception. to address what seems to be a glaring imbalance However, as the debate has shown, there are that is leaving our fishermen increasingly still significant challenges to be overcome as we disadvantaged in the global market, that is all well embark on what everyone agrees is a turning point and good, but I will be interested to see whether in fisheries management in Scotland. What fishermen’s view of the agreement is as positive enables us to call it that is the first phase of the as the cabinet secretary’s. Liam McArthur’s discard ban, which comes into force on 1 January contribution suggested that it is not. for the pelagic fleet and a year later for the I conclude by referring to the amendments to demersal fleet. the motion. It is noticeable that, without any Although it is clear that the ban will pose more collusion, all three Opposition parties have opted difficulties for the demersal fleet than the pelagic to try to amend the motion from the second use of fleet, it must be a matter of considerable concern the phrase “and supports”. In other words, they that, as Bertie Armstrong has put it, the process have sought to remove the slightly political aspect leading to the landing obligation laws is a “shining of the motion that the Government wants to and beacon of dysfunction”. That should probably not will no doubt succeed in including. Stewart come as a massive surprise given that it is the EU Stevenson suggested that we would be unwise to that we are talking about. However, it opens up remove that section of the motion and Christian the possibility that different member states will Allard became positively animated about it, but the interpret the regulations in different ways and, in cabinet secretary’s opening speech and some of doing so, fail to create the level playing field that is the contributions of his back benchers have shown so essential to the success of the policy. If anyone that we are right to seek to do so. is tempted to think that that is not much of an Christian Allard: Will the member give way? issue, I note that the RSPB and WWF Scotland joint briefing notes their The Deputy Presiding Officer: The member is in his final minute. “sympathy for a fleet which faces potential uncertainties as to the legality of landing fish in the new year should the Alex Fergusson: I do not have time, I am sorry. necessary European legal arrangements not be in place.” We will do everything that we can to ensure that That same briefing also notes the potential the relationship between the UK fisheries ministers benefits of successful implementation of the and ours is healthy and that the vital importance of landing obligations. Eliminating discards, either by the Scottish fishing fleet to the UK fisheries sector landing and selling fish that are currently is properly recognised. The road to success is discarded or by maximising the use of selective surely through working closely together, as has fishing gear, could be worth up to £200 million to often been the case in the past, to achieve mutual

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benefit across the UK rather than through simply the debate—surrounding the legislation, making it continuing the pre-referendum jargon that failed to unlikely that the fleet and compliance agencies will persuade the Scottish voters to vote for be made aware of the precise legislation in time independence just two months ago. I hope that the for implementation of the ban. I wonder whether cabinet secretary will not be tempted to go down the cabinet secretary could say a bit more about that route in his closing speech. The Smith that. commission has recognised the need for a As we approach the final round of negotiations different relationship. The UK Government has over fishing effort, it is of course important that all already responded by inviting Angela Constance species are fished sustainably. Members on all to represent the UK at a vital EU meeting. So in sides of the chamber have discussed the quota the spirit of consensus, I suggest that the cabinet allocation for various species in some detail, so I secretary accepts the amendments and proves will not go into further detail, although it was good that we can all work together for the betterment of to hear of the discussions that the cabinet the Scottish fishing industry. That is what we voted secretary has already had about the discredited for on 18 September. cod recovery plan. We wish him well with those negotiations. 17:14 It is important to note that the SFF is broadly Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab): happy with the outcome of the bilateral This has been an optimistic debate, not least given negotiations between the EU and Norway on Alex Fergusson’s sense of optimism about future haddock and cod stocks, which suggests that a negotiations. good deal may well have been struck. Both the It is almost a year—it certainly does not seem industry and environmental NGOs are in like that—since we had a similar debate in the agreement about the maximum sustainable yield chamber about the end-of-year fisheries approach, which again is a note of optimism that negotiations. Last year, before the cabinet we can hold on to. secretary was due to travel to Brussels for the I also note the agreement, as confirmed by the negotiations, we were awaiting the formal cabinet secretary, on the EU-Faroe Islands deal. introduction of new policies that were intended to However, from what Liam McArthur has said, it do away with many of the structural problems and appears that we need to listen carefully to the bad practices. We must be hopeful that the fishing industry on that—although I noted what the policies underpinning the new CFP will solve many cabinet secretary said about there being more of those issues. tonnage available to the Scottish fleets in the I want members to consider just how important agreement. Graeme Pearson has highlighted the industry is to us and how often the people who concerns about the Russian ban and the loss to are involved in the industry—certainly those who our economy because of that. I wonder whether go to sea—face challenges and dangers. We the cabinet secretary could comment on that as should all take time to reflect on the task that is well. faced by those who go to sea here and around the I want to focus somewhat on regionalisation globe. I hope that the cabinet secretary will because, given the aim of having sustainable but comment on Cara Hilton’s concerns about health economically viable fisheries, it is important that and safety and how fatality rates have not European fisheries are managed regionally. The improved over the past 30 years—indeed, they agreement on the new CFP shows that the top- have worsened. down, one-size-fits-all approach to fisheries I am sure that members will agree that banning management is, frankly, pathetically simplistic. I the widely criticised practice of discarding is wonder whether the cabinet secretary will be able absolutely essential and will vastly improve the to say a little bit more about regionalisation going overall health of our shared fisheries. As always, forward. we must be careful to balance economic interests Last year, I highlighted organisations such as with sustainability to ensure that a fit-for-purpose the Baltic Sea fisheries forum, or BALTFISH, and plan is in place. We will listen very carefully to the Scheveningen group—I hope that I have what the cabinet secretary says on that in his pronounced that correctly—which covers the North closing remarks. That point is stressed in our Sea member states. I wonder whether the cabinet amendment. secretary is involved with those organisations. I was concerned to read that the Scottish On this year’s rural affairs and environment Fishermen’s Federation has reservations about budget, the research budget generally and the the effectiveness of the legislation underpinning marine and fisheries budgets specifically are set to the discard ban, or landing obligation. According to decline in real terms unless there are changes. the SFF, there is confusion—as we have heard in That is of particular concern in view of the fact that

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performance against the national performance mixture of optimism and deep anxiety, and those framework marine environment indicator is factors have been reflected in many members’ worsening. Is it plausible for the Scottish contributions. Government to place the blame for that largely on There is a degree of optimism, and even the the mackerel dispute, which was resolved earlier Fishing News, which I am sure all members this year, when the whole marine ecosystem is subscribe to, has been relatively optimistic in the being analysed for that indicator? I seek past couple of weeks. I read about the situation in reassurance from the cabinet secretary that he is Shetland and Peterhead. On 5 December, the confident that the funding cuts are acceptable in Fishing News said: the circumstances. “Local whitefish fishermen landing prime whitefish Rob Gibson made a plea for the purchase of caught within 20 to 30 miles of Shetland from trips of 16 to local fish, and Cara Hilton pointed out that the 72 hours unanimously voiced optimistic comments about Scottish Government is currently consulting on the future of their industry.” “Becoming a Good Food Nation”. Many members There have, of course, also been high landings at have highlighted in this debate and previous other key ports in Scotland, particularly Peterhead. debates the importance of being adventurous with Again on 5 December, the Fishing News said: our fish diet. Only last week, we heard of research, published in the British Medical Journal, which “Last week’s achievement was only the second time that said that women who eat a Mediterranean-style an annual total of one million boxes of whitefish has been diet may live longer than those who do not. That is achieved at Peterhead since 2000,” according to a new study that looked at one when nearly 1,030,000 boxes were landed. There marker of ageing. is, therefore, a degree of optimism in the fishing industry at the moment, but that is, of course, Christian Allard: Will the member take an against a backdrop of anxiety. intervention? Liam McArthur: I should declare an interest as Claudia Beamish: No, I am afraid that I cannot. the son of the cartoonist of the Fishing News. I am just about in my final minute. Does the cabinet secretary agree that the That diet includes fresh fish, of course. That is optimism in the industry will not be helped by another way in which we can be sure that we Government back benchers launching the sort of encourage people—particularly women—to put attack on fishermen’s leaders that we heard from fish in their diet. Dave Thompson earlier in the debate? Will he Graeme Pearson’s question to the cabinet distance himself from those comments? secretary about liaison with his education Richard Lochhead: The industry’s optimism counterpart on fish is fundamental if we are to will not be helped by the Labour Party, the educate future generations of consumers about Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats not the type of fish that they buy. giving the power to their Scottish ministers to I wish the cabinet secretary well in the ensure that we address some of the deep negotiations and am sure that his expertise will be anxieties that the fleet has. greatly valued in the UK delegation, which will Let us not forget that we are talking about have strength and more clout than an only- seafood. We are talking about the product that is Scottish delegation would. That is my view—I landed by our fishermen, who go to sea in all kinds know that the cabinet secretary and I disagree on of conditions, including atrocious weather from that. I hope that, alongside his UK colleagues, the time to time—which of course means very cabinet secretary will be able to deliver an dangerous conditions. That seafood is very agreement that benefits the industry, consumers in valuable to Scotland’s economy. It makes a huge Scotland and the UK as a whole, our shared contribution to Scotland’s fantastic exports marine environment and, of course, future records, particularly in respect of food: our generations. seafood accounts for around 50 per cent of food exports. We should be very grateful to our 17:21 fishermen for going out in all kinds of conditions. Richard Lochhead: As I approach my eighth That food graces some of the best restaurant consecutive annual fishing negotiations, I very tables in the whole of Europe and even in places much welcome the comments and reflections from such as Orkney, where I happened to be last week members across the chamber on some of the big enjoying fantastic local seafood—albeit that I think issues that face our fishing communities and wider that it was imported from faraway Shetland. The seafood sectors. seafood that our fishing industry lands provides an There is quite a strange atmosphere in our enormous contribution to Scotland’s economy, and Scottish fishing industry just now. There is a I hope that we can celebrate it more than ever

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before in 2015, which is the year of food and drink. There have been some reductions for other Let us ensure that healthy, nutritious seafood is at stocks, but there are increases in our key, the heart of the promotion of the food and drink valuable stocks. Of course, where there are sector and that it is promoted in our schools, as reductions in quota for some stocks, they are part well. of long-term management plans that we all support. We must acknowledge that the stocks Cara Hilton and others mentioned the and recommendations are in good health because importance of building seafood into food education of the sacrifices of our fleet. and introducing it to our children. That is why the Scottish Government funds the seafood in schools The fleet does not have to wait for discard bans. initiative, which is becoming ever more successful. It has undertaken a lot of effort using selective gear and other measures to reduce discards. The Fishing is a dangerous occupation. Some white-fish fleet in the North Sea has reduced members asked me to respond to questions on discards since 2007—the year in which I became what we are doing to promote a culture of safety at minister—by 64 per cent. The prawn fleet has sea in the industry. That is crucial, as we know reduced discards of cod, haddock and whiting in from recent tragic events. We can never devote the North Sea by a further 93 per cent. On the enough time to safety, and we have to keep doing west coast, there have also been reductions, albeit it. that there are still some on-going serious problems The Scottish Fishermen’s Federation has been that must be addressed. working with the Scottish Government to ensure Two key objectives result from the new common that personal flotation devices are made available fisheries policy that we now have. First, we have to every fisherman in Scotland who requests one. to achieve sustainable stocks where possible by More than £300,000 of funding for that came from 2015 and definitely by 2020. That will be the European fisheries fund, and the fishing challenging for some of our stocks, although eight industry contributed the rest of it. of our 12 key stocks are already being fished at To protect our seafood and to protect the jobs in sustainable levels. Scotland that we all want to safeguard, we need The second objective, which has dominated the sustainable fish stocks in our waters. That is also debate, is to ban discards between 2015 and about protecting a valuable food resource. 2019. I fully accept that it gives Scotland Graeme Pearson and others mentioned the fact enormous challenges because of the mixed that the world population is expanding, so we have fishery in our waters, in which many different to protect that valuable food resource. That is one species swim together. That means that, if reason why we have to ensure that we have the fishermen run out of quota for one stock, they right policies in place at European and Scottish have problems in catching the other stocks for level. which they have quota because they have to land Stocks are recovering and improving, which is their fish and are not allowed to discard them. down to the massive sacrifice of Scotland’s fishing That is why we need to ensure that Europe industry, particularly over the past 10 years or so, modernises the regulations. We will fight for that when many good men were forced to leave the next week and throughout 2015. It also means that industry from time to time because of crazy we have to continue to work with our fleet in regulations. Therefore, we hope that we will be Scotland. able to realise the optimistic outlook for 2015 and beyond. There are plans in place. We have a Scottish discards steering group and are working with the The Commission’s proposals for some of the onshore sector—the fish processors—as well as stocks that will be discussed at this year’s fishing the fleet on what the ban means for the fleet and negotiations next week include a 20 per cent what new measures can be adopted in Scottish increase for monkfish, a 15 per cent increase for waters. nephrops—that is, prawns—in the North Sea and a rollover for the valuable megrim stock. On the My message to the European Commission is west coast, the Commission proposes a 113 per that we cannot use 1980s legislation to deliver cent increase for Rockall haddock, a 20 per cent 21st century solutions for discards. I remember increase for monkfish and a 1 per cent increase going to the fisheries council for the first time in for the valuable megrim stock. 2007 and raising the issue of discards in European waters. I spoke about how they were unacceptable Last week, on the North Sea stocks, a 5 per and were ecological vandalism. Back in 2007, cent increase for cod, a 15 per cent increase for there was little interest from other member states haddock and a 15 per cent increase for plaice or the UK Government in tackling discards, so we were agreed. have travelled a long way. We will now tackle discards once and for all, which is in the interest of

79 9 DECEMBER 2014 80 fisheries conservation, Scottish jobs and the wider Decision Time fishing industry. The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick): Could you bring your remarks to a close, cabinet 17:30 secretary? The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick): There Richard Lochhead: Therefore, 2015 is a big are five questions to be put as a result of today’s year for the industry in Scotland. However, I have business. to say that I am now shadowing my fifth UK fishing The first question is, that motion S4M-11826, in minister. No doubt, after May’s UK elections, I will the name of Maureen Watt, on the Food be shadowing my sixth. Therefore, it is absolutely (Scotland) Bill, be agreed to. ridiculous that the UK Government should choose to send an unelected lord to represent Scotland’s Motion agreed to, fishermen at the Council of Ministers as opposed That the Parliament agrees that the Food (Scotland) Bill to experienced Scottish ministers. That shows be passed. absolute contempt for the people of Scotland and, The Presiding Officer: I remind members that, in this case, absolute contempt for our fishing in relation to the debate on end-of-year fish communities and the thousands of people whose negotiations, if the amendment in the name of livelihoods depend on that sector. Claire Baker is agreed to, the amendments in the If we can get the big decisions right in 2015, we name of Jamie McGrigor and Tavish Scott fall. will have the opportunity to allow our fleet to sail in The next question is, that amendment S4M- calmer waters. Although there is some 11825.3, in the name of Claire Baker, which seeks disagreement over some of the issues, and the to amend motion S4M-11825, in the name of Government will be opposing the amendments by Richard Lochhead, on end-of-year fish the Opposition parties, I hope that that is one negotiations, be agreed to. Are we agreed? objective that we can all rally around. Members: No. Let us get the best deal for Scotland’s fishing communities next week in Brussels, and let us The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. allow our fleet to sail into calmer waters. For Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab) Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con) Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con) Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab) Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Findlay, Neil (Lothian) (Lab) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab) Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con) Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green) Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab) Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab) Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab) Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab) McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab) McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab)

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Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con) Urquhart, Jean (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab) (SNP) Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP) Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con) White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Scott, John (Ayr) (Con) Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (Ind) Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP) Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) division is: For 47, Against 63, Abstentions 0. Against Amendment disagreed to. Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: If the amendment in the Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP) Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) name of Jamie McGrigor is agreed to, the Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP) amendment in the name of Tavish Scott falls. Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) The next question is, that amendment S4M- Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP) 11825.2, in the name of Jamie McGrigor, which Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) seeks to amend motion S4M-11825, in the name Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP) of Richard Lochhead, on end-of-year fish Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP) negotiations, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Members: No. Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross- shire) (SNP) For Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP) Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab) Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con) Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con) Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Findlay, Neil (Lothian) (Lab) Lauderdale) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Hume, Jim (South Scotland) (LD) Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con) Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP) Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab) MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP) Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP) Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab) MacKenzie, Mike (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab) McAlpine, Joan (South Scotland) (SNP) Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McDonald, Mark (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD) McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) (SNP) McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab) McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP) Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con) Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con) Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab) Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Salmond, Alex (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Scott, John (Ayr) (Con) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab) Thompson, Dave (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)

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Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (Ind) Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP) Against The Presiding Officer: The result of the Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) division is: For 45, Against 65, Abstentions 0. Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP) Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Amendment disagreed to. Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The next question is, Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) that amendment S4M-11825.1, in the name of Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP) Tavish Scott, which seeks to amend motion S4M- Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) 11825, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on end- Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP) of-year fish negotiations, be agreed to. Are we Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP) agreed? Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Members: No. Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross- shire) (SNP) For Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con) Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con) Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) Hume, Jim (South Scotland) (LD) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con) Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP) Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD) Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con) Lauderdale) (SNP) Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Scott, John (Ayr) (Con) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Hume, Jim (South Scotland) (LD) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Against Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green) Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP) Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP) Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP) Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP) Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) MacKenzie, Mike (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP) McAlpine, Joan (South Scotland) (SNP) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) McDonald, Mark (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD) Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross- McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) shire) (SNP) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP) Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Salmond, Alex (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Thompson, Dave (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Urquhart, Jean (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) Lauderdale) (SNP) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)

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Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green) The Presiding Officer: The next question is, Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) that motion S4M-11825, in the name of Richard Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lochhead, on end-of-year fish negotiations, be Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP) MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP) agreed to. Are we agreed? MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP) Members: No. MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacKenzie, Mike (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) For McAlpine, Joan (South Scotland) (SNP) Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) McDonald, Mark (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Central Scotland) (SNP) McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) (SNP) Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP) McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP) Biagi, Marco (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP) Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Burgess, Margaret (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP) Salmond, Alex (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP) Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Thompson, Dave (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross- Urquhart, Jean (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) shire) (SNP) Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) (SNP) Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow) (SNP) White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (Ind) Eadie, Jim (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) Abstentions Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab) Gibson, Rob (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lauderdale) (SNP) Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Findlay, Neil (Lothian) (Lab) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Ingram, Adam (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab) Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Keir, Colin (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab) Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP) Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab) MacAskill, Kenny (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP) Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP) Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab) MacKenzie, Mike (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab) McAlpine, Joan (South Scotland) (SNP) McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McDonald, Mark (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab) McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) (SNP) McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) McLeod, Fiona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab) McMillan, Stuart (West Scotland) (SNP) Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab) Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab) Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab) Salmond, Alex (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Thompson, Dave (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) division is: For 16, Against 62, Abstentions 32. Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Amendment disagreed to. Urquhart, Jean (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)

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Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP) UK in European fisheries negotiations on issues where it is White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) clearly appropriate to do so. Wilson, John (Central Scotland) (Ind) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow) (SNP) Abstentions Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab) Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con) Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (West Scotland) (Con) Chisholm, Malcolm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab) Ferguson, Patricia (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Findlay, Neil (Lothian) (Lab) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Henry, Hugh (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab) Hume, Jim (South Scotland) (LD) Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con) Kelly, James (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lamont, Johann (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lamont, John (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab) Macintosh, Ken (Eastwood) (Lab) Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab) Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Paul (Glasgow Provan) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCulloch, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab) McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD) McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) McNeil, Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) McTaggart, Anne (Glasgow) (Lab) Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con) Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con) Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab) Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Scanlon, Mary (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Scott, John (Ayr) (Con) Smith, Drew (Glasgow) (Lab) Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 62, Against 0, Abstentions 48. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament welcomes the successful conclusion of the recent EU-Norway fishing negotiations, which secured a number of good outcomes for the Scottish fishing industry; notes the forthcoming annual fishing negotiations in Brussels and supports the Scottish Government in its efforts to achieve the best possible outcome for the industry; agrees that the final negotiated settlement must promote sustainable fisheries and have the best interests of Scotland’s fishermen, coastal communities and wider seafood sectors at its heart; notes that the outcome of the negotiations will be pivotal to support the fleet's implementation of the landing obligation, and supports the Scottish Government’s continued calls for it to lead for the

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Local Coastal Partnerships Members will be aware of the legislation, including European directives, that protects our The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith): marine environment. That was the result of the 1992 Rio earth summit’s call for better The final item of business is a members’ business management of the world’s seas and coasts, debate on motion S4M-11441, in the name of which led to the call, in the European Community’s Rhoda Grant, on Scottish local coastal fifth environmental action plan, for integrated partnerships. The debate will be concluded without coastal zone management. The Scottish Wildlife any question being put. Trust also held seminars in 1992 and 1993 that Motion debated, encouraged the idea of wide stakeholder That the Parliament notes that it is 21 years since the engagement. Focus on Firths initiative was established; understands that Projects were set up under Scottish Natural this led to the establishment of local coastal partnerships (LCPs) in order to take forward the Rio Earth Summit’s call Heritage’s focus on firths initiative, which gathered for the better management of coastlines and seas; and identified data on our firths’ resources, uses, celebrates what it sees as the important work of the LCPs issues and needs. That serves as a baseline for in the Highlands and Islands and around the country in future target setting. raising awareness of issues with regard to coastlines and inshore waters and in delivering projects and research Without marine planning, it was paramount to based on local needs; notes that LCPs promote an interest build strong links and stakeholder networks to in marine and coastal habitats and what it considers their deliver integrated coastal zone management amazing diversity of species; understands that they work through discussion and conflict resolution. with communities to encourage them to appreciate the maritime environment and to act as custodians of this by Integrated coastal zone management is a cyclical supporting initiatives such as litter management schemes process that needs at least 15 years to deliver, so and beach cleans; believes that they bring stakeholders we are now seeing results from early management together with the common purpose of sustainable plans. development by brokering agreements between different sectoral interests and promoting an ecosystem approach, Networks have been built up by our coastal and appreciates what it sees as the very considerable partnerships, which I welcome to the Parliament experience and expertise that the LCPs have built up, this evening. We have representatives from our which it considers will make an invaluable contribution to great firths: the Solway, the Clyde, the Forth, the the setting up of the regional marine planning partnerships set out in the Marine (Scotland) Act 2010. Tay and the Moray Firth. We also have representatives from the east Grampian coast and the Hebrides. In the debate, we will celebrate the 17:37 work that the partnerships do to promote their Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): coastal areas economically and culturally while In Scotland, we are privileged to live in a country always seeking to protect biodiversity. Their role in with a magnificent and varied coastline. We have encouraging schools and community groups to be mountains sweeping down to the sea, spectacular aware of the coastal environment is also vital. cliffs, rocky headlands, beaches of silver and The Highlands and Islands have three golden sands, salt marshes, estuaries and partnerships: those for the Clyde, the Hebrides machair that are filled with wildlife and hundreds of and the Moray Firth. The Moray Firth is the largest harbours, big and small. Our coastal waters of the firths and stretches from Duncansby Head provide a living for our inshore fishermen and for to Fraserburgh. A special area of conservation lies our boat operators who offer marine wildlife tours to the west of a line between Helmsdale and to view whales, dolphins, basking sharks, seals Lossiemouth. The firth’s seafood can be found in and seabirds. the best restaurants in the Mediterranean. It is Sailing our coast are international yachtsmen also famous for its oil platform construction yards; and women, weekend sailors, canoeists and it still supplies the oil industry and maintains rigs. cruise liners. There are lifeline ferries and cargo The firth has championship golf links; ships, oil industry supply vessels, tankers and oil magnificent beaches, such as those at Dornoch rigs that come in for maintenance. We have and Nairn; and countless fishing harbours, offshore wind turbines and we hope soon to have especially along the Moray and Aberdeenshire wave and tidal energy devices. coast. It has havens for migrating birds and is All of them use our ports, harbours and coastal home to the internationally renowned Moray Firth waters. It is easy to see how our coast and inshore dolphins. According to recent research instigated waters can come under pressure, how there can by the Moray Firth Partnership, the dolphins bring be conflicts of interest between users, how marine into the local economy around £5 million in tourist and coastal wildlife habitats could be threatened revenue. and how our beaches might be degraded. What is the role of the Moray Firth Partnership and the other coastal partnerships? The

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partnership is a voluntary organisation. It promotes Scotland, the coasts and seas are the source of dialogue between competing interests so that the many of our foods, our wildlife, our energy, our firth’s natural economic and social resources are minerals, our transport, our tourism and, above all, kept in good order. our history. Some examples of what the Moray Firth It is hard to believe that it is 22 years since the Partnership does will help to illustrate its work. It Rio earth summit and 21 years since the launch of brought dolphin cruise boat operators together the focus on firths initiative. At the summit in 1992, with SNH to provide accreditation for boats 172 Governments participated, with 116 of them working in the SAC. If it can access funding, it sending heads of Government or state, and some hopes to enlarge the initiative to create a wildlife 2,400 representatives of non-governmental SMarT—sustainable marine tourism—programme, organisations attended, too. The Kyoto protocol together with the east Grampian and Tay estuary was also agreed that year, following the climate partnerships, to promote sustainable marine change convention. wildlife watching along the east coast. The lesser-known convention on biological Lately, the Moray Firth Partnership has diversity was also agreed at the earth summit. The promoted locally caught fish and shellfish through convention had three main goals: the conservation the see here project. Fishermen, fishmongers, of biological diversity, the sustainable use of its chefs, restaurateurs and hoteliers have been components and the fair and equitable sharing of brought together to promote local seafood, which benefits arising from generic resources. Scotland’s often goes abroad. If the project is successful, response was the focus on firths initiative, which local fishermen will have a stable local market and was established soon thereafter, and the creation local people will have the benefits of fresh local of the seven local coastal partnerships. fish and shellfish. The mainland of Scotland has 6,160 miles of In the heritage field, the partnership recently coastline. When one includes the isles, the figure promoted the gansey project, which gathered increases to 10,250 miles, which represents 42 together examples of traditional ganseys and per cent of the circumference of the globe. With patterns from bygone years and promoted interest that range, Scotland is a special place for in new ways of using the patterns, which were biodiversity. In fact, as the coastal partnerships taken up by a London fashion house. The website points out, it is special not only for the exhibition has toured the UK and there has been sheer number of species that it supports but for its interest from across the North Sea—particularly complex mosaic of habitats and scenery, which from the Netherlands. make up our rich and varied landscape. Most important for integrated coastal zone Approximately 90,000 species of animals, plants management, the Moray Firth Partnership has and microbes live in Scotland, supported by our recently been working on a matrix for the many habitats and varied landscape from interaction between all users of the firth. That has mountains and moorland, through rivers, lochs been at the Scottish Government’s behest, to pave and forests, to the gateways of our coasts and the way for marine planning partnerships. The seas. That is part of our lifeblood. partnership tells me that the exercise has been The seven local coastal partnerships have many fascinating, and the results can be seen on its projects in action, from the coastal care projects in website. That kind of data will be needed for the Hebrides to the adopt-a-beach project in successful marine planning, which will be rolled Grampian, the Firth of Clyde forum work on out over the next few years. waterfront regeneration on the Clyde and the Forth The advent of local marine planning coastal litter project. partnerships means that coastal partnerships have The Marine (Scotland) Bill, which was an uncertain future and do not know what role, if introduced into the Parliament on 30 April 2009, any, they will have. Coastal partnerships have sought to create a new legislative and done much to promote the proper and sustainable management framework for the marine use of our coasts. It would be a great pity for the environment. That included a new system of knowledge and expertise that have been built up marine planning, a revised system of licensing over many years to be lost. I urge the cabinet marine activities and powers to establish marine secretary to tell us the Scottish Government’s protected areas. Marine Scotland was created thinking about their future role and how we will ahead of the bill’s introduction as a directorate of capitalise on their experience. the Scottish Government to help deliver many of the provisions. 17:44 As of 24 July this year, 30 marine protected Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP): I thank areas have been designated under the Marine Rhoda Grant for introducing the debate. In (Scotland) Act 2010. They will be incorporated into

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the national marine plan and represented in the there. That is an important aspect of the Forth national marine plan interactive tool alongside Estuary Forum. existing protected areas. To move on to another topic, one of the themes Scotland is a rich and diverse country and we in the Forth integrated management strategy was have come a long way in the 21 years since the to focus on firths initiative was launched. Our “promote access to and enjoyment of the Forth.” coastline will never fail to amaze, never cease to attract tourists and visitors to our shores and never In 2002, the Forth Estuary Forum set up a project fail to inspire all generations of Scots. to look at strategic planning of Forth-wide access for walking, cycling and riding. All seven local I will close with a quotation from the famous authorities, Scottish Natural Heritage and Paths Scottish conservationist John Muir, who said: for all Partnership were involved. The forum “Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to commissioned a major feasibility study to look at play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give scoping, demand analysis, marketing and funding strength to body and soul alike.” of a round the Forth route. The study was Scotland’s coastline is that beauty. Let us continue completed in 2004 and has provided the to protect Muir’s legacy. framework for local authorities and other organisations including Sustrans to develop routes for access around the Forth. As a result, Sustrans 17:48 has developed the round the Forth cycle route as Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and part of the national cycle network. Forth Estuary Leith) (Lab): I congratulate Rhoda Grant on Forum regularly attends the round the Forth group lodging this important motion. Scotland has seven to help to promote access to members and the local coastal partnerships. Much as I love the wider community. In doing so it not only broadens northern coast that Rhoda Grant talked about I enjoyment of the natural environment, but shall, understandably, concentrate on the Forth improves it by supporting active travel and, Estuary Forum, which is the LCP that covers the perhaps, reduces some of the heavy traffic that coastal area of my constituency, as well as much can damage coastal ecosystems. else. It takes in a diverse waterway that combines The forum has also sought ways to adapt the a European birds directive designated special coastline and protect ecosystems from increasing protection area, and special areas of conservation occurrences of flooding. Its past investigations into for grey seals, with a busy commercial shipping natural defences included a 1999 project that was area with exports of oil and gas and imports of co-ordinated with GeoWise and the University of goods from all over the world. It is a stretch of Glasgow on potential options for managed water that must maintain a delicate balance realignment along the Forth. After considering the between the protection of our natural ecosystems feasibility of various sites, it was concluded that and the commercial and industrial needs of the some local protection could be achieved, but that surrounding ports and towns. flood risk to the wider estuary would not be Membership of the Forth Estuary Forum is open lessened. However, valuable discoveries were to all who have an interest in preserving that great made in the course of the study. For example, it natural resource for future generations. The forum was found that salt marsh habitat creation could does that by including future generations in be achieved by using that technique. projects such as friends of the Forth that get The motion gives me a chance to praise the young people in schools and clubs out into the work of the Water of Leith Conservation Trust, natural environment. which is one of the member organisations in the The friends of the Forth project follows on from Forth Estuary Forum. The trust was established in the very successful coastal litter campaign, which 1988 by residents who were concerned about the ran from 2001 to 2004 to raise awareness of river and its future. From small beginnings, the marine litter and to set up beach cleans in order to voluntary organisation grew and, in 1997, the trust reduce debris. Set up in 2005, the project raises was successful in obtaining funding, with match awareness and gathers information on issues funding principally from City of Edinburgh Council including marine litter, climate change and and Lothian and Edinburgh Enterprise Ltd— biodiversity. It supplies teachers who may wish to LEEL—for a £5 million capital project to complete include lessons on beach littering and its impact the Water of Leith walkway and renovate the with useful education packs. It offers a curriculum- Slateford school house to create the Water of based package that gives practical advice on Leith visitor centre. projects that are rewarding and fun. With the help I am delighted to use the walkway on my bike of friends of the Forth, a regular group is run at and on foot. I hope that that is also the case for Seafield, near Kirkcaldy, to clean up the beach many other people on the Forth coastline and

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throughout Scotland. I look forward to further recognition of existing socioeconomic patterns, developments along the coastline in my which should not be disrupted unless to make an constituency in the coming months and years. improvement. As we look to improve the biodiversity and health of our coastal environment, we need to take with us the fishermen and other 17:53 people who make their livings from our seas and Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) coastline. In many cases, they are the people who (Con): I, too, congratulate Rhoda Grant on have the practical understanding, expertise and securing the debate. Like Rhoda Grant, I welcome knowledge about our coastal waters that can help the opportunity to pay tribute to the good work of to inform plans to ensure the sustainability that we local coastal partnerships in my Highlands and all want. I have made that point repeatedly in the Islands region—including the Moray Firth chamber—not least in the debate in March this Partnership and Coast Hebrides, which is the year on bringing the Clyde up to good Outer Hebrides coastal marine partnership—and environmental status by 2020. many others across Scotland. I see that I am running out of time. The Scottish There are many positive examples of the Conservatives recognise the importance of our different work that is being undertaken by local coastlines to our economy and to our biodiversity. coastal partnerships. The Moray Firth Partnership We are aware of the positive achievements of runs the dolphin space programme, which is an Scotland’s local coastal partnerships and we hope accreditation scheme for wildlife tour boat that the best practice, experience and expertise operators. It is an innovative, co-operative that have been built up over the past 20 years or approach to sustainable wildlife tourism. The more can be maintained and developed as the partnership’s “seafood—see here!” project aims to new regional marine planning partnerships are make local seafood more easily available, and to introduced. increase the amount and quality of seafood that is offered in local restaurants and shops. 17:57 On that point, I simply must mention the town of Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP): I Oban in Argyll and Bute, which has some of the congratulate Rhoda Grant on securing this best shellfish outlets in Europe, which are evening’s debate. unmatched for quality of produce. Their service is excellent, as well. I will never apologise for It is amazing what one discovers when faced advertising Scotland’s shellfish. Our lobsters, with something that one knew nothing about. I crabs, scallops and prawns are the best in the wondered why I knew nothing about coastal world. partnerships, but I explored the issue and found that east Grampian has a coastal partnership and Coast Hebrides’s coastal care programme aims that, at the south end of my constituency, there is to restore and protect dunes and soft coasts by the Tay estuary forum. The division between the undertaking a range of initiatives in beach and two partnerships is precisely where Angus meets dune management, restoration and flood Aberdeenshire, which is a mercy, because I am protection. Marram grass has been transplanted to sure that it makes life a lot simpler for them both. stabilise blowouts on dunes. The work is vital, because coastal erosion is a threat to communities The partners in the East Grampian Coastal in the Western Isles, for example. Partnership include the local councils, the port and harbour authorities, Marine Scotland and the The motion refers to the need to “bring University of Aberdeen. They are a group of stakeholders together” and to people who clearly have a vested interest in the “brokering agreements between different sectoral area, but they must be active partners, because I interests”, note that they have just one, part-time employee, which is important. In preparing for the debate I who I think will be hard-put to achieve a great deal consulted representatives of the Clyde unless the partners get involved. Fishermen’s Association and was most The partnership’s objectives include promoting encouraged to learn that the association feels that sustainable development, seeking to its participation in the Firth of Clyde Forum over many years has been worth while. The group has “protect, conserve, enhance and promote the natural and cultural heritage of the East Grampian coast”, collaborated and co-operated to seek constructive solutions in relation to the concepts that it and engaging stakeholders and everyone else supports. who is interested. Those objectives seem very commendable and quite open-ended. I wish the The Clyde Fishermen’s Association suggested partnership well and will help it in future. that the forum, unlike some initiatives, understands intuitively that there needs to be

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I will give members a brief tour of my part of the 18:01 east coast—we will probably get round the whole Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab): I, too, of Scotland in this debate, given that Elaine congratulate Rhoda Grant on bringing to the Murray is next to speak. My area starts with chamber the debate on local coastal partnerships. Stonehaven in the north, which has a harbour, a There are more than 50 such partnerships museum and, of course, the hogmanay fireball throughout the United Kingdom, which make a ceremony, which is unique—it will not happen vital contribution to management and integration anywhere else, if only for health and safety activities on the coast. reasons. No distance away at all is Dunnottar castle, from where it is a short walk to the RSPB’s Like Malcolm Chisholm and Nigel Don, I will Fowlsheugh nature reserve, where we can find not concentrate on my local coastal partnership, the just birds but butterflies and cliff-top flowers. It is Solway Firth Partnership, which turned 20 years still walkable to Inverbervie, where it is possible to old in June. It was inaugurated by Magnus pick up an old railway track, along which my wife Magnusson, with the initial aim of developing a and I were walking over the weekend. The old cross-border marine and coastal strategy, and it railway takes us down to Gourdon, Johnshaven became a limited company with charitable status and, probably after a bit of climbing, the wonderful in 2003. The partnership continues to work on beach at St Cyrus. There are fish festivals, fish- both sides of the Solway, and therefore faces the and-chip shops aplenty and tea houses, and very challenge of operating within two different good exercise to be had. It is a wonderful regulatory and policy frameworks, but it rises to environment. the challenge and makes an important contribution to supporting the local economy and the local Other members have mentioned litter, which is a environment. Membership is open to all who are problem that must be addressed in both directions. interested in coastal issues, whether they are I stood on St Cyrus beach on Sunday afternoon organisations or individuals. looking at bottles that had not come on the tide, and at huge hay bales that must have done, Over the years, the partnership has played because they could not have got there any other many important roles. Those have included way. We were scratching our heads and helping with the recovery from the effects of foot- wondering where they had come from, but it is and-mouth in 2001 in Dumfries and Galloway and clear that litter comes in both directions. Cumbria; co-ordinating Solway Fish—the organisation, not the species; establishing the I look forward to the cabinet secretary’s Solway aquatic litter task—or SALT—programme; announcement very soon—within a few days, I developing the Solway biosecurity plan; and taking suspect—of the marine spatial plan. I welcome the action on non-native invasive species, which increasing interest in what we do on the foreshore, included the publication of an identification guide. and the increasing concerns about planning. I wonder whether the Old course at St Andrews The partnership has worked with the UK and would ever be built if someone wanted to do that Scottish Governments during the development of now. It would no doubt be a site of special marine planning legislation such as our Marine scientific interest on which no one would ever be (Scotland) Act 2010 and the UK’s equivalent, the allowed to put a golf course. I will leave members Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009. It is involved with that thought. with the North Western Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority in England, and with the The coast needs to be looked after. At an south-west inshore fisheries group that covers the institutional level, the coastal partnerships are Scottish part of the Solway Firth. doing their bit, and—as I said—I look forward to the publication of the draft marine plan in the next The partnership has run several successful few days. We as individuals must also do our bit, projects, including the making the most of the and ensure that we do not drop litter. We have the coast initiative, which was a two-year project that opportunity to go down to the coast and enjoy our was completed in the summer. The project countryside, and I encourage everyone to do so. involved more than 2,500 people; engaged with 28 education providers, from nurseries and schools to Malcolm Chisholm mentioned the Water of research establishments; worked with more than Leith, which I have walked. Other members have 30 groups; and featured in 33 publications. mentioned Oban, where I have also been. I have walked most of my own coastline, and probably Primary school children were involved in filming most of the coastlines that other members will a documentary about the sea shore, and three mention. That is a fabulous opportunity, but it awareness-raising films for young people were worries me that I do not meet many people out produced on coastal issues that included risks to there. We need to broadcast the benefits rather coastal heritage, monitoring climate change and more. marine litter. Four short films were also produced

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featuring the variety of the Dumfries and Galloway 18:06 coast. The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Food The Solway Firth Partnership has been involved and Environment (Richard Lochhead): I in co-ordinating work that is aimed at reopening congratulate Rhoda Grant on lodging the motion to the important Solway cockle fishery. The recognise the important role that has been played management of that intertidal fishery has, over the by our coastal partnerships over many years. It is years, been problematic to say the least. Cockles appropriate that I am able to speak in this debate are economically valuable, but they are also a after opening and closing the previous debate on food source for waders such as the oyster-catcher, sea fisheries, which was relevant to many and there is clearly a balance to be struck members’ speeches. I enjoyed Rhoda Grant’s between economic and environmental economic, social and cultural tour of Scotland’s considerations. The partnership has worked with coasts, particularly the Moray Firth, which I am Marine Scotland to develop a sustainable privileged to represent part of. I certainly recognise management model and, although the local those attributes of the Moray Firth that members contractor that had been taking part in the have mentioned—it is a stunning area of Scotland. scientific study withdrew in August, the I echo other members’ comments in Government believes that sufficient information acknowledging the contribution of the partnerships has been gathered to enable the fishery to reopen to the management of our coasts and seas. Their in September next year. contribution has helped to shape and influence The partnership produces a biannual newsletter national policy in this country. Many of the containing information about a range of coastal partnerships and the bodies they represent were issues. For example, November’s edition includes directly involved in the wide-ranging discussions an article on smuggling on the Solway in the 18th that led to the Marine (Scotland) Act 2010, as century—an activity that benefited not only from members have said. That legislation is all about the differences in customs and excise in Scotland protecting the features that Rhoda Grant and other and England but from the proximity of the Isle of members have spoken of. Man, whose rulers imported large quantities of The partnerships remain important to the on- luxury goods, repackaged them and sold them on going implementation of Scotland’s marine to the Solway smugglers. Members may know that legislation, and the motion highlights the one of the most famous excisemen was Robert partnerships’ role in the development of marine Burns, who caught a smuggler at Annan. That planning and the work that they have done to pilot prompted him to write the poem “The De’il’s awa marine regional planning, which is now being wi’ th’ Exciseman”, which suggests that he was taken forward. They have helped to pave the way somewhat more sympathetic towards the for our new marine planning framework, and the smuggler than an exciseman should have been. debate is timely not only because we are The Solway Firth Partnership works with local celebrating the 21st anniversary of the emergence people to promote sustainable enjoyment of the of the local coastal partnerships but because the coast through activities such as sea angling, national marine plan will be laid before Parliament sailing, kayaking, diving, wildlife watching and later this week. It will be Scotland’s first statutory coastal walking. The inner Solway Firth is marine plan and will set the framework for the designated as both a special protection area under sustainable development of our seas. the birds directive and a special area of Marine planning seeks to manage the impact of conservation, or a Natura site. The estuary is an human activity on the marine environment, but it important wetland for overwintering birds such as also recognises and encourages the growth of all Svalbard barnacle geese and whooper swans, and the industries that members have mentioned that it is the most northerly habitat for the rare need and use our waters, such as fishing, oil and natterjack toad, for which I am the species gas, renewables and marine tourism. It also gives champion in Parliament. further weight to the designated marine protected The role of the Solway Firth Partnership has areas and preferred locations for the development been, and will continue to be, essential to the of offshore wind and marine renewables. It is right sustainable development, management and that we take that approach. As has been said, our promotion of the Solway, and I am grateful to seas are a vast resource, offer a stunning Rhoda Grant for the opportunity to thank the environment that is essential for our climate and members of the partnership for their vital our lifestyles, are capable of providing food and contribution to our region. energy, and are increasingly enjoyed by tourists and recreational users alike. The Scottish seas with which we are blessed are also among the most diverse in the world, being home to many distinctive habitats and iconic

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species such as the basking shark and more than them. Their activities range from the practical, 20 species of marine mammals as well as such as organising the beach cleans that other internationally important bird populations. members have mentioned—I have attended such events in my constituency—and providing wildlife Jamie McGrigor: The cabinet secretary has watching guides, which has been done in Spey made a lot of Scotland becoming a food and drink Bay in my constituency and in other areas that nation. Does he agree that advertising our quality have been referred to, to strategic initiatives, such products from the areas that he is talking about is as developing sector interaction and addressing one of the best ways of doing that? issues of conflict between sectors in different parts Richard Lochhead: I certainly agree with that. of Scotland. The key characteristic of the In the previous debate, I mentioned the fact that I partnerships has been their ability to bring was in Orkney last week to meet food and drink together a range of interests to consider common businesses. The nature of Orkney defines the issues and to find local solutions. image that helps to sell the food and drink from Rhoda Grant: How does the cabinet secretary those islands, and that is the case with other parts envisage the partnerships getting involved in the of Scotland as well. I hope that in 2015—the year new marine planning set-up? What will their role of food and drink—our coastal partnerships and be? everyone who has an interest in promoting the image of our fantastic natural environment, which Richard Lochhead: Many of the organisations spawns our food and drink, will find ways of that are part of the coastal partnerships will be promoting their local produce throughout that involved in marine planning in different parts of important year. Scotland. We are at a very early stage, and as the marine regions evolve over the coming years we It is important that we manage all those will see the evolution of local planning for our resources, because they will continue to support seas. As part of that process, we should—as I our reputation for food and drink, all the various think that the member is suggesting—consider species that I have mentioned and all the other ways in which the coastal partnerships can play a benefits, which we want to be there not just for the role. present generation but for generations to come. I do not think that it is for ministers to come up The national marine plan, which we have with ideas about how the coastal partnerships can worked hard to develop since the 2010 act came play a greater role. We want to ask the into force, will help us to do that. The hard work partnerships what role they feel that they can play, that we have had to do reflects the processes that and what support they require from the have been necessary to arrive at a plan that Government to play it in the future. I strongly achieves a fair and appropriate balance between encourage that bottom-up approach. That is the the economic, environmental and social interests value of the partnerships around Scotland’s that members have referred to. coasts. First and foremost, the plan is based on the A lot is happening. I expect that local coastal evidence in “Scotland’s Marine Atlas”, much of partnerships will continue to champion their which is now available online. I invite members members and all the marine industries that who have not had a look at it to consult it—it is operate in their patches. I want them to do what available through a system called national marine they can to raise awareness of all the issues that plan interactive. I encourage schools, MSPs and members have spoken about and the riches of our the coastal partnerships to use that system to look coastal communities. If there is anything that the at the marine atlas. Government can do to help with that, we are open- The marine plan was drawn up after heavy minded. consultation. Last autumn, Marine Scotland hosted There are many fine examples of such work more than 30 consultation events around Scotland being done around the country, such as by the to take views from local communities. We have Moray Firth Partnership and its neighbour the East worked closely with a range of stakeholders, Grampian Coastal Partnership, which are raising including the Scottish coastal forum, which awareness of and demand for local seafood. Of represents the local coastal partnerships, and the course, there are now plans to develop an east marine strategy forum. Scotland seafood trail in 2015, which is timely That engagement with local stakeholders and given that 2015 will be the year of food and drink. their understanding of the local marine There are many examples of such co-operation environment have been mainstays of the activity of going on around the country, and I encourage that coastal partnerships throughout their existence. to continue. The partnerships have provided a forum for local Looking forward, I believe that the stakeholders to come together and connect Government’s plan to establish marine planning directly with the community on issues that affect

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partnerships at a regional level will ensure that the Let us continue to celebrate Scotland’s coasts work of the local coastal partnerships is continued and the role that our coastal partnerships play in and developed. We are working closely with the doing that. Firth of Clyde forum and with those in Shetland to establish formal marine planning partnerships in Meeting closed at 18:15. those areas, to which I referred earlier.

The experience of local coastal partnerships, their engagement with local communities, the issues that they tackle and their ways of working provide many learning points for the development of regional marine planning in the coming years. I could talk for a while longer about the many other initiatives that are happening around Scotland involving the local coastal partnerships. I do not want to do that, but I will close by commending the work of our local coastal partnerships. I wish their representatives well for tonight’s reception—if I can pop along, I will certainly do so—and I look forward to ensuring that their commitment to managing our coasts and seas is reflected in our new marine planning regime.

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