STANDING COMMITTEE ON INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS AND JUSTICE

Hansard Verbatim Report

No. 30 – May 3, 2010

Legislative Assembly of

Twenty-sixth Legislature

STANDING COMMITTEE ON INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS AND JUSTICE

Mr. Warren Michelson, Chair Moose Jaw North

Mr. Kim Trew, Deputy Chair Regina Coronation Park

Mr. Greg Brkich Arm River-Watrous

Mr. Michael Chisholm Cut Knife-Turtleford

Mr. Wayne Elhard Cypress Hills

Ms. Moose Jaw Wakamow

Mr. Delbert Kirsch Batoche

Published under the authority of The Honourable Don Toth, Speaker STANDING COMMITTEE ON INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS AND JUSTICE 519 May 3, 2010

[The committee met at 08:09.] The Chair: — Thank you, Mr. Minister. I would just ask your officials if they would, when they address the microphone, to The Chair: — Well good morning. It’s about nine minutes just state their name for Hansard records. And there are some after eight. Welcome to the Intergovernmental Affairs and questions. I recognize Mr. Yates. Justice Committee meeting. The committee members are Wayne Elhard, Delbert Kirsch, Greg Brkich — who is absent Mr. Yates: — Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. My first and sitting in for him is Denis Allchurch — Michael Chisholm questions has to do with how will these changes better serve the and Kim Trew who is the Vice-Chair and Deb Higgins. Also public, and what differences will they see in service to them? with us this morning is Kevin Yates. Hon. Mr. Morgan: — A lot of the functions that were there This morning we’re dealing with Bills No. 138, 139, and 140 were for boards or commissions that no longer function or with Justice. Just to make it easier for the officials who are powers had been transferred by way of having another board or attending, we will consider Bills No. 139, 140, and then 138. another agency do it. So this would be regarded as the legislative cleanup to an Act of things that probably have Minister Morgan is with us. If you would like to introduce your already taken place. In the eyes of the public, it will probably be officials and have some opening remarks, you can go ahead seen as a simplification when they go to look up something or right now. look for something, and in some cases it may be easier to access or deal with a specific agency. Hon. Mr. Morgan: — Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m joined this morning by several officials: Maria Markatos, Crown counsel, Mr. Yates: — Thank you very much, Mr. Minister. Mr. Chair, legislative services branch; Dave Wild, Chair, Saskatchewan to the minister, that’s exactly how, when going through this Financial Services Commission; Susan Hetu, executive director, piece, we read it. So how is — if most everything has been cultural heritage, from the Ministry of Tourism, Parks, Culture done, there’s really no change — is this called streamlining and Sport; Carlow Germann, director, heritage resource branch, government? Ministry of Tourism, Parks, Culture and Sport; and Drew Johnston, director, legislative services, Ministry of Education. Hon. Mr. Morgan: — I think when you have a number of statutes that call for the appointment of boards or commissions Bill No. 139 — The Miscellaneous Statutes that either aren’t needed or are no longer necessary, I think it’s (Streamlining Government) Amendment Act, 2010 appropriate that the legislation be made consistent so that you don’t, upon reading a statute or regulation . . . are given the Clause 1 appearance that there is significant function still taking place when in fact the function has been transferred elsewhere. Hon. Mr. Morgan: — The Miscellaneous Statutes (Streamlining Government) Amendment Act, 2010 will amend Mr. Yates: — Thank you very much Mr. Minister. Would this several statutes to eliminate boards, commissions, and be more appropriately categorized as housekeeping and foundations that are either no longer operational or whose housekeeping amendments to bring legislation in line with duties can be transferred to another committee, board or current reality? foundation. Hon. Mr. Morgan: — Some of them are actually transferring The Act will eliminate the Co-operatives Securities Board, the specific functions like the heritage pieces, and there’s functions Geographic Names Board, the Saskatchewan Heritage Advisory that are being moved. I don’t think I would characterize Board, and the Saskatchewan Heritage Review Board and housekeeping as being an unreasonable term for a number of transfer the powers and duties of these boards to other the things that are there, but there are things that are specifically pre-existing organizations so as to avoid duplication of duties. transferred or moved.

The Act will eliminate, in their entirety, the Educational [08:15] Boundaries Commission and the Farm Support Review Committee as these bodies are no longer operational. Mr. Yates: — Thank you very much. How much will the cost savings to the taxpayers be as a result of these changes? In order to achieve these purposes, the following statutes will be amended: The Agricultural Safety Net Act, The Credit Union Hon. Mr. Morgan: — The cost savings may have already been Act, 1998, The Heritage Property Act, The New Generation realized because they were boards and commissions or Co-operatives Act, The Saskatchewan Financial Services positions that had not been filled. So in this fiscal year, there Commission Act, and The Education Regulations, 1986. In will probably not be a great amount of it. But it eliminates the addition, The Geographic Names Board Act and The potential for appointing people to a board that is no longer Saskatchewan Heritage Foundation Act will be repealed. functionally . . . The savings probably have been realized over the last two years. Similar amendments regarding bilingual statutes are concurrently being addressed in The Miscellaneous Statutes Mr. Yates: — Thank you very much. Those conclude my (Streamlining Government) Amendment Act 2010 (No. 2). questions. Thank you. We are ready to take questions. The Chair: — Are there any other questions from the 520 Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice Committee May 3, 2010 committee? Seeing none, Bill No. 139, The Miscellaneous The Chair: — Thank you, Mr. Minister. Do we have Statutes (Streamlining Government) Amendment Act, 2010, questions? Ms. Higgins. clause 1, short title, is that agreed? Ms. Higgins: — Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I guess I Some Hon. Members: — Agreed. could have asked these under the previous Bill also, but the changes to The Education Act and removing the Boundaries The Chair: — Carried. Commission . . . because I think you stated they were no longer needed. The ministry doesn’t believe that there are any [Clause 1 agreed to.] circumstance that may arise to have a look at boundaries as they currently exist? I mean, the distribution of students changes [Clause 2 to 11 inclusive agreed to.] quite drastically in some areas, and you’re not expecting any changes to the education system where this may be needed? The Chair: — Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan, enacts the Mr. Johnston: — The commission’s not had any new cases following: Bill No. 139, The Miscellaneous Statutes since 2006. Its term expired in May 2009. There may be (Streamlining Government) Amendment Act, 2010. Is that circumstances where boundary changes will come up. They agreed? haven’t been frequent. Since ’97 we have averaged maybe zero to two cases a year, and since 2006 none. There may be future Some Hon. Members: — Agreed. cases. We expect that they’ll be less likely because the property taxes are pretty well the same set mill rates across school The Chair: — Carried. I would ask that a member move that division boundaries. We also expect that . . . we report Bill No. 139, The Miscellaneous Statutes (Streamlining Government) Amendment Act, 2010 without The way the commission functioned in the past, the staff had amendment. done all the workup when a case did come forward in terms of preparation on the impact of changing the boundary and the Mr. Chisholm: — So moved. research that went into it. So staff actually performed the research for the commission members who then made a The Chair: — Mr. Chisholm. Is that agreed? recommendation to the minister. So staff will just perform those functions now when a case does come forward. But we’re Some Hon. Members: — Agreed. expecting probably even fewer than we have in the last 10 years. The Chair: — Carried. Thank you very much. That concludes Bill No. 139. Mr. Minister, we would like to proceed to Bill No. Ms. Higgins: — While the staff may have done the research 140. and worked up the information that was needed, the commission did serve a very important role in going out and Bill No. 140 — The Miscellaneous Statues meeting with the public. Now I understand that this government (Streamlining Government) Amendment Act, 2010 (No. 2)/Loi doesn’t put a high priority on consultations with the public, but corrective (rationalisation administrative) n° 2 de 2010 the commission played a very important role because taxpayers really need to feel like they’ve been heard and have an avenue Clause 1 to address changes and proposals that are coming forward in their area. Hon. Mr. Morgan: — On this Bill, I am joined once again by Maria Markatos and Dave Wild, and we are also joined by So while it may not be needed at this time, I am a little bit Drew Johnston, director of legislative services with the Ministry concerned that the whole possibility of establishing a boundary of Education. commission, if there are questions that arise, is taken out of the Act and that it will solely be left up to the minister’s discretion The Miscellaneous Statutes (Streamlining Government) because we always have to remember that we’re here to serve Amendment Act, 2010 (No. 2) will amend two bilingual statutes the taxpayers that elect us. And beyond when you’re in to eliminate the Co-operative Securities Board and the government, you have a responsibility to the province as a Education Boundaries Commission. The Act will also amend whole. So I just want to voice my concern that there is a The Co-operatives Act, 1996 to eliminate the Co-operative rationale and a good reason to have the commission existing. Securities Board and transfer the powers of that board to the They may not do the research, but they do serve a purpose and Saskatchewan Financial Services Commission. The Act will have a great deal of influence on the outcome of any type also amend The Education Act, 1995 to eliminate the questions such as this that may arise. Educational Boundaries Commission in its entirety, as the function undertaken by the commission is no longer needed. As Hon. Mr. Morgan: — We appreciate the point. It’s taken. The with the English Act, this Act will ensure that various bodies commission made recommendations. It was not a final arbiter. are not performing similar tasks that can be performed by a The decision was also to be made by the minister, so what this pre-existing entity and that organizations that are no longer does, it streamlines or eliminates a step. I think that it will needed are eliminated from legislation. always be incumbent on the minister whenever this process is undertaken and — as our officials have said, will be less likely We would be prepared to answer questions at this time. in the future — that it would be incumbent on the minister to ensure that there’s been some form of public input or public May 3, 2010 Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice Committee 521 consultation. So we will ensure that we will pass the Hon. Mr. Morgan: — Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m joined by information to the minister and make sure the officials continue Darcy McGovern, director, legal services branch. to be aware of it. Appreciate the . . . Amendments were introduced last spring to The Queen’s Bench Ms. Higgins: — Well then I appreciate that, but when you say Act, 1998 to make beneficiary designations in tax-free savings it streamlines government, what it actually does, the step you’re account — for TFSAs or tax-free savings, TFSAs — effective. removing is access to the public to have input onto any type of These amendments came into force on May 14th, 2009. The change that may be proposed in boundaries. And that raises a changes responded to the TFSA provisions in the Income Tax number of concerns. Act, Canada, that came into force on January 1st, 2009.

Hon. Mr. Morgan: — Thank you. The purpose of this Bill is to introduce amendments to The Queen’s Bench Act, 1998 to specify that beneficiary The Chair: — Are there any other questions or comments from designations are made in accordance with tax-free savings the committee? Seeing none, Bill No. 140, The Miscellaneous accounts instead of referring to the Income Tax Act, Canada. Statutes (Streamlining Government) Amendment Act, 2010 (No. 2) — this is a bilingual Bill — clause 1, short title, is that The provision that was added to The Queen’s Bench Act, 1998 agreed? last spring provides that where a holder of a TFSA designates a successor holder beneficiary, the amount in the account can be Some Hon. Members: — Agreed. paid to that person rather than being considered an account of the holder’s estate. Without that amendment, the amount in the The Chair: — Carried. account would’ve been distributed according to the will or, if there was no will, the rules of intestacy. [Clause 1 agreed to.] Two financial institutions have taken the position that the [Clauses 2 to 4 inclusive agreed to.] Saskatchewan legislation should’ve been worded differently. Consequently these institutions are not allowing clients to make The Chair: — Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent these beneficiary designations. Although we are confident that of the Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan, enacts the our approach is correct, these financial institutions have refused following: Bill No. 140, The Miscellaneous Statutes to change their position, and thus their customers are unable to (Streamlining Government) Amendment Act, 2010 (No. 2). Is make beneficiary designations in their TFSAs. that agreed? The balance of financial institutions in Saskatchewan do allow Some Hon. Members: — Agreed. TFSA holders to make beneficiary designations. They and their legal counsel recognize that the Saskatchewan legislation The Chair: — Carried. I would ask that a member would move provides effective authority for those designations. However that the Bill No. 140, The Miscellaneous Statutes (Streamlining efforts to persuade the remaining two banks to change their Government) Amendment Act, 2010 (No. 2) without approach have been unsuccessful. It appears that the prudent amendment. Is that agreed? thing to do for the sake of the customers of those banks in Saskatchewan is to amend our legislation. Mr. Kirsch: — I so move. We recognize that adjustment amendments have already been The Chair: — Yes, Mr. Kirsch. And that’s agreed, thank you made to the TFSA legislation in Nova Scotia and the Yukon, very much. That concludes Bill No. 40. and we are prepared to take this step to ensure that all Saskatchewan customers have this benefit. The Chair: — We will now consider Bill . . . This Bill will amend the new provisions of The Queen’s Bench Hon. Mr. Morgan: — Thank you very much. At this point, Act, 1998 to substitute wording that all banks and financial virtually all of the officials that I have are leaving, so I’d like to institutions will accept as satisfactory. The institutions thank them for coming this morning and for their assistance. concerned have reviewed the proposed legislation, and their representatives are satisfied that it responds to their concerns. The Chair: — Yes, we appreciate you coming to assist us on the first two Bills. The original TFSA provision passed last spring received second and third reading on the same day without going to committee. Bill No. 138 — The Queen’s Bench The opposition recognized that it was for the benefit of Amendment Act, 2010 (No. 2)/Loi no 2 de 2010 purchasers of TFSAs. For the same reason, I thank the modifiant la Loi de 1998 sur la Cour du Banc de la Reine opposition for their support for the timely passage of these changes. Thank you. We would be prepared to answer questions Clause 1 at this time.

The Chair: — We will now precede to Bill No. 138, The The Chair: — Thank you, Mr. Minister. Are there questions? Queen’s Bench Amendment Act, 2010 (No. 2). This is also a Ms. Higgins. bilingual Bill. Mr. Minister, if you’ve got any opening remarks and introductions, please do them now. Ms. Higgins: — Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. 522 Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice Committee May 3, 2010

Minister, I’m very pleased to see these coming through because Mr. Elhard: — I so move. I have constituents that obviously dealt with the two financial institutions that were being sticklers about this. The Chair: — Is that agreed?

Hon. Mr. Morgan: — I’m aware that they do. We have Some Hon. Members: — Agreed. received calls from your constituency office, so I’m pleased to see that you’re here today. The Chair: — Thank you, that’s carried. That concludes the considerations of Bill 138, 139, and 140. And that’s the agenda [08:30] for this morning. I would ask that we have somebody . . . Oh, I’m sorry, Mr. Minister. Ms. Higgins: — No, but now my only comment is that we have corresponded with your office a couple of times over the past Hon. Mr. Morgan: — I would thank Mr. McGovern for being year — it could be even beyond that the first letter came in — here. and my only complaint is we have never received a response from your office, so it’s very hard to close files or know where The Chair: — Thank you and thank you, Mr. Minister. And files we have in our office are. We’ve since contacted the thank you, committee members. I would ask for an adjournment constituent who told us that they had received a letter from you of the committee until 7 p.m. this afternoon. or your office laying out the changes that were coming forward, but I just request that a cc to our office would have been Mr. Allchurch: — I so move. appreciated and so we would know where the file is. The Chair: — Is that agreed? Hon. Mr. Morgan: — It would allow you close your file. I will pass that on. Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

Ms. Higgins: — Thank you very much. At the same time as the The Chair: — Thank you. tax-free saving accounts were established, the federal government also established disability savings accounts much [The committee adjourned at 08:33.] more under the radar than what the tax-free savings accounts are. Have you run across any issues with the disability savings accounts like we have with the tax-free, or is it just the tax-free status that is causing problems?

Mr. McGovern: — I can’t speak with any particular knowledge to that programming. The main issue here of course is the ability to actually legally designate a beneficiary, and that’s the change that’s required in provincial legislation to pick that up. So I’m not able to speak to that issue any more directly.

Ms. Higgins: — Thank you very much. I don’t have any more questions, Mr. Chair.

The Chair: — Thank you, Ms. Higgins. Are there any other questions or comments to the minister? If not, in consideration of Bill No. 138, The Queen’s Bench Amendment Act, 2010 (No. 2) — this bilingual Act — in clause 1, short title, is that agreed?

[Clause 1 agreed to.]

[Clauses 2 to 3 inclusive agreed to.]

The Chair: — A Bill with three clauses on it, that’s very nice.

Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan, enacts as follows: Bill No. 138, The Queen’s Bench Amendment Act, 2010 (No. 2). Is that agreed?

Some Hon. Members: — Agreed.

The Chair: — Carried. I would ask a member to move that we report Bill No. 138, The Queen’s Bench Amendment Act, 2010 (No. 2) without amendment.