.•..• "
Church and School Lands. [6 APRIL, 1887.J Bidli Colliery Explosion. 637
l;:ind if it become law, I think it is de bentures, with a currency 0°f eight years ; sirable that' we should consider it in a and that when I introduced the neceSS!try fuller house. I move : bill on the subject I should give the That the debate be adjourned until to-morrow House full details. I may now say that fortnight. there is no likelihood of any of the deben Motion agreed to ; debate adjourned. tures being issued this year, and that House adjourn eel at 9·16 p. m. whenever the public necessities should de mand an issue it will take place in the colony, at a rate of interest which has yet to be determined. 3!.rgislntibe ~ssrmbl~. NEVi' AND CLOSED RO.ADS. Wednesday, 6 April, 1887. Mr. O'SULLIVAN asked the SECRE TARY FOR LANDS,-Is it his inten'tion to Church and School Lands - Treasury Bills - New and i1~troduce a bill dealing with the opening Closed Roads-Imperial Conference-Common Lodg of new and closed roads 1 ing-houses Ilill-Il ulli Colliery Explosion-Cash Betting lVlr. GARRETT answered,-The ques at Hace )leetings-Coroner at Hyde-Government llail· way Bill-Adjournment (Australian Mutual Prudential tion has not yet been considered by me, and Medical Assurance Society, Limited-Bulli Colliery with a view to prnposing legislation. -Quean beyan Election)- Special Adjournmcn t (Easter Holidays)- Ways and Means-Financial Statement IMPERIAL CONFERENCE. (second night's debate). l\fr. DIBBS asked the COLONIAL SECRE TARY,-(1.) ·will he lay upon the table of Mr. SPEAKER took the chair. · the House copies of' all minutes and letters in connection with the appointment of Sir CHURCH .AND SCHOOL LANDS. Patrick Jennings and Mr. ·wisdom on l\'.Ir. DAWSON (for :Nir. GARLAND) their mission to the Imperial Conference, asked the MINISTER OF PUBLIC INSTRUC and the instructions given to these gentle -rroN,-In view of the present state of men 1 (2.) Also, copies of letters and the law relative to mining on church cablegrams sent to and received from these and school land~, will he re-introduce the gentlemen since their departure from the Church and School Lands Dedication Bill colony 1 which was passed through all its stages in Sir HENRY PARKES answered, this Chamber during the late Parliawent There will be no objection whatever to by his predecessor 1 laying copies of these papers on the table. l\'.Ir. INGLIS answered,-The bill is now under consideratiou, and one or two , COMMON LODGING-HOUSES BILL. improvements arc being added to it. It Bill presented.by Mr. Cameron, and read will be introduced at the earliest possible the first time. tlate consistent with the exigencies of Government business. BULLI COLLIERY EXPLOSIO~. Sir HENRY PARKES: I wish to lay TREA~URY BILLS. on the table papers relating to the recent Mr. DIBBS asked the COLONIAL TREA Bulli colliery explosion, and I ask the at SURER,-Assuming, from the Treasurer's tention of hon. members for a few moments financial statement, that he intends to while I say a few words in mo-iring that issue Treasury bills to liquidate the deficit, they be printed. These papers merely em will he state-(1.) When he proposes to brace such communications as have taken issue such bills 1 (2.) In what form and place in order to obtain in an official form rate of interest~ (3.) If in this colony 7 a return of the lives lost, the widows left (4.) The amount he proposes to set aside penniless, cases of extreme distress, and in reduction 7 (5.) If he proposes to set some other particulars as to the parties aside revenue derived from any special who exerted themselves in endeavouring source for this object~ to rescue the bodies of those killed in the Mr. BURNS answered,-! explained . mine. I atu having these papers printed in the financial statement that, in the with a view to another object. I find that opinion of the Government, the deficit the number of persons who meritoriously should be represented by short-dated de- exerted themselves-many of them at the 638 Cash Betting at Rctce 1lfeetings. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment. risk of their own lives-is so numerous the hon. member proceed with the second that it is understanding upon the representation of Mr. Richards 10. That they thereby refused to give the that you have been fully paid up, they will lmYe to defer the consideration of your account until the board meeting facilities mentioned in section 30 of that act. next week, when it will be fully dP.nlt with. Meanwhile IL That they further disobeyed the statute you will cease any connection with the floating polici~s in not notifying the change in the official address now in force ; but in all individual cases you bring before of the company. us you will hnve the usual liberal commission. I am, dear sir, yours truly, 12. That their suspension of the manager of W. H. L. BATLE1·, the society, even admitting that they had cause Acting l\fannging Director. to take that step, was resolved upon at an To F. 'VentherJake, Esquire, 5, Brisbane-terrace, l\Iilson's Point, North Shore. irregularly convened meeting of the directors, held at Sir Henry Parkes' private office, and not This was tantamount to saying, " Go on ; at the office of the company. continue the. swindle in spite of all insults, 13. That they permitted one of their members in spite of the fact that we do not kno1'V to act (though unqualified) in defiance of the what is your relationship to the society; "articles of association." [It should be stated, however, that the director in ·question, Mr. yon will lmve no connection with the J. Creer, has honorably carried out the obligation floating policies now in force ; but if you imposed upon himself and his co.directors by. like to get new policies, bring us new the bond on which the sum of £500 was borrowed victims, they will be quite welcome, and for the purposes of the society.) 15. That they displayed gross negligence in you will be paid liberally." their management of the society from the Mr. McELHONE : ·what about poor outset, as indicated by (a) the issue of policies Murphyi legally defective; (b) borrowing money from Mr. WALKER said that Murphy was their manager for payment of preliminary ex penses; (c) by their not making themselves where some members on that side of the acquainted with the provisions of the "Articles House ought to be-he was decently of the Association ;" (d) by their not seeing that l1uried. He would now read from the the manner of issuing policies, premium receipts, Globe of yesterday a summary of the and conducting correspondence, was regular, uniform, and exact; (e) in issuing a form of points which told against the society : policy at rates insufficient, according to actuarial Premising that the directors of the society computations, to meet the obligations under were originally :::lir Henry Parkes, M.L.A., and them ; (f) in attempting to conduct an intricate Messr~. J. H. Young, M.L.A., Jacob Garrard, insurance business without the advice of a solici- M.L.A., James Greer, \V. IL Bailey, and A. M. tor and actuary. . Megginson, M.B.; that these gentlemen, with 16. That they permitted one of their number, the exception of the last-named, have all through against the spirit of the act, to trade with the the society's brief career, acted as the board of society, and that they paid his claim when credi mana<"ement, Dr. Megginson hiwing resigned a tors of antecedent date were unsatisfied. few n~onths ago ; and that Sir Henry Parkes is 17. That they expended all premiums re the chairman of the board and the society-we ceived in expenses of manageme1it. charge the directors as follows :- 18. That they did business recklessly and at · 1. That they permitted a prospectus to be cir extriwagant cost. culated which represented the capital of the 19. That they refused (by the person of the society to be £25,000, when, as a matter of fact, acting managing director) information to mem the society had no capital. bers as to the position d the society. 2. That they permitted to beissueclcertain poli •All the above stated charges are matters which, cies which do not effectually protect the assured. if formaily ·proved, as we are prepared to prove 3. That they declared these policies (under them on judicial investigation, involve penalties which the bulk of the members were assured) of one kind or another. •·•void and lapsed," without valid cause, and in defiance of the society's "Articles of Associa- This was only one society. How many tion," and of their own resolution passed in regu- more such societies existed in Sydney it larly convened board meetings. -nTh · 1 b · 4. That this proceeding amounted to an act of was impossible to say. n at mig it e repudiation. ' the loss to the community at large-the in , 5. That, long after they must have been aware jury to those least capable of hearing it that the society was hopelessly insolvent, they we could not say, if something were not :accepted "new and renewal " premiums. . 6. That they neglected to see that the pro- clone to 'prevent societies of this descnp- visions in the "Articles of Association" as to tion gaining a footing in our midst. In aiudit were carried out. other countries it was provided by· legisla- 7. That they disobeyed the' statutory pro\•i- tion that before a society of this kind sion requiring a change of management to be could be commenced its proposed policy 1"1lgistered. 8. That they similarly disobeyed the statutory and management should be thoroughly in provision as to the publication of a statement of vestigated. Before people contributed its affairs. their earnings to such societies it was ab- 9. That they refused to keep the reghtered h h bl" h ld office of the company open in the specified hours, . solutely necessary t at t e pu IC s OU as required by the Companie~ Act. have some assurance that they would not :r -~· -. .,_~~... =r:;=:;;.,;;;,..;;;;;:;. ;:;., ;;;;,:;;.~.• ' " 642 .A.djournrnent. .,,.. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment. be robbed and wronged. There were a tage of assurance and ~·other similar socie- number of people in this city who were ties. The particular society of which he earning very small wages indeed ; they was speaking claimed tq be started speci could scarcely live on the pittance secured ally in the interests of the poorer classes, to them, owing to the scantiness of em and in order to create confidence in the ployment ; there were many men who minds of the public it procured as a figure could not get constant work, and unfortu head Sir Henry Parkes himself. This hon. nately there were many more who could gentleman had been the figure-head of the not get work, and were obliged to .solicit state very often. That figure-head, as re charity. There were among those strug markable for its dignity as its beauty, had gling people, some who had a provident conducted the ship of state through many spirit, who desired to save something for seas of adversity. The hon. gentleman a rainy clay-for the time of sickness, seemed to have the same facility for de~ when friends were few, and misfortune scending to the lower as he had for ascend was s'everely felt. They paid a shilling a ing to the higher positions in society. He week into societies of this description. A was as much at home leading the ship of shilling a week might appear to be a very state as in the position of figure-head of a small sum to men like the Premier, the bogus assurance company. The poor hon. member for The Hastings and lVIann people who paid their money to this society• ing, Mr. J. H. Young, and the hon. mem believed that the respectability of the ber for Balm"ain, lVIr. Garrard, who, as directorate would be a protection against members of Parliament had to deal with swindling. A society unsupported by such such large sums of money, but a shilling dignified names would have little chance a w'eek was a large sum to a working man, in the community; at all events it would who wished to bring up his family with only have the chance of competition. An some degree of respectability, who did not unfair advantage was given to this society; wish to see his children going without in short, a species of protection was given boots, or going to our public schools in to swindling, and to an undertaking that ragged clothing. In order to put by this had fraud written on the face of it; and shilling a week it often happened that owing to this protection or guarantee the the father had to go without comforts, poor people had money taken out of their and the mother without necessities. They pockets. · stinted themselves in their honseholcl lVIr. HASSALL : An illustration of good economy-they went to almost starvation's government and commercial freedom! brink-in order that they might have lVIr. ALLEN : An argument in favour something in the home when the bread of protection ! winner met the fatal blow of nature, and lVIr. WALKER said he only wished the family had to depend on the col . t...... Adjoiirnrnent'. [6 APRIL, 1887.J .Adjournment. 643 \;~ cognisant of the fact that swindles of this fraud, we could at least exercise some description could be wrought upon the supervision over their proceedings. It was . public, and in the interests of that public, a most outrageous thing that a society and especially of the poorer classes, it was · which, practically speaking, depended on his bounden duty to bring in a bill making sickness and death should, in those of all it impossible for societies of this kind to circumstances, trifle with the interests of ~pring up like mushrooms and seize upon its clients. It was hard to be swindled the savings of the industrious working when .we were strong and healthy and man. It unfortunately happened that tbe able to fight for our rights; but how much people who belonged to societies ·of this harder was it for a society to take from kind were not the class who complained those who were lying on their deathbed, the loudest ; they were not found rushing and rob them in their very death agonies. into print, clamou,ring at the street corners, We heard about money-lenders selling the or agitating on the stump. In the great beds from under their unfortunate credi majority of instances they were voiceless. tors, but these ;;ocieties went even further They were willing to bear their burdens than that; they not only refused to give quietly and in silence. There had been .to the sick the help they promised, and innumerable instances in'which a father thus perhaps placed them in the hands of .had died leaving a widow and a number these very money-lenders, but, they cle of children penniless and destitute because pr;ived them of the power of buying a they could not procure the money due to grave in which to slumber after death. them by a bogus assurance society. In These societies did wrong to those already such cases the poor widow rather than stricken clown by the band of nature. make-the matter public and appear to be When death's grim figure pursued them an agitator, preferred modest retirement these people stepped in and did them this and quiet sympathy for her children in wrong. Was there to be no protection her distress. These cases were constantly against conduct of this kind 1 Was no jus occurring in our midst. tice to be extended to those who gave their Mr. ALLEN : They are not ! last shilling in order to have a respectable Mr. vV ALKER : Let us suppose that burial when they died 1 These people, as the society of which he had been speaking a rule, were the most thoughtful in the was the only instance, there was still community. .We knew what a benefit it sufficient reason for legislation on the was to the state to encourage thoughtful ·subject, for this. case proved the great ness among the people. Thoughtlessness necessity for preventing similar occurrences was·the first step towards human degene in the future. The public owed a debt of racy. A country advanced in proportion. gratitude to the evening paper that haq to its number of thinkers, and civilisa fearlessly exposed this evil in the intei·ests tion increased in proportion as we taught of the poorer classes. We owed the paper every section of the community to exercise a debt of gratitude for showing us how thought. The ostensible object of these these companies could swindle the public societies was to encourage thoughtfulness if they chose. A measure should be brought and providence ti.mongst the poor. But if in dealing directly with all friendly and after contributing their earnings to the · benefit societies, and providing for the ap funds of such institutions the people found pointment of an inspector, who, before a themselves swindled and the money gone, ~ company was allowed to start, should see they would naturally think it would have that a proper amount of capital was in been better if they had spent their money vested in it, and that precautions were on the pleasures of the day without any taken to protect tbe public from mis attempt to provide for the foture. It was management or fraud. The state inter on behalf of the public, and especially the fered in matters in which the interests of poorer members of the public, that he the public were even less at stake, and brought this matter before the ~ouse. we were constantly imposing restrictions Qi;i.estion proposed. where we thought the public required pro Sir HENRY PARKES : I am sure tection. We even prohibited people from that hon. members will appr~ciate the hon: cash betting, and if. we could not prevent gentleman's great sympathy with the poor. these societies from actually perpetra~ing ~ should have thought that the ,,hon. mem- ~~ .., G44· Acljoiwnment. ~ (ASSEMBLY.] .Adjournme1it . ~ ber would at least have given me two or our full share of any loss that may be sus three hours' notice before taking the course tained, and honorably acquit ourselves. of he has done, and before making this free this society. Now, I have stated that it use of my name. I have very little to is not true that any sum of £500 was bor say in reply to the extraordinary state rowed to st!trt this society, and for ·the ment we have heard. Some of the facts best of ·all° reasons-it was not a joint-stock are no facts at all. For example, the company; no money was required; it was story of £500 havii1g been borrowed to started on precisely the same lines as one staFt this society is not true in :iny sense. of the greatest societies in the Australian The fact of any cheque of the society's, colonies.' It was a mutual life assurance signed by the directors, having been dis society, the profits, if any arose, were to honored is not true in any sense, ·or in any be divided, and the liabilities mutually :instance. The cheque to which allusion and equally sustained. What the £500,1. was made was returned because the direc was borrowed for, for which we are per tors considered it their duty to stop pay sonally responsible, was to pay the most ment of it, for what appeared to them improper debts which this person Richards, good reasons ; but no cheque signed by the· unknown to us, had contracted. That is directors was ever dishonoured. Nor is it what the money was paid for, and for no true that any money was at ·any time· other purpose whatever. And up to this borrowed from the person who was the moment my position is this, and I have no manager. All these things. are ";ilful . doubt it is the position of every other gen- • misstatements. I am only concerned to tleman connected with the society: 'We explain my own connection with this did not divide, or seek to divide, one society, and I think lion. gentlemen will shilling as fees to begin with. \Ye have see that I am to blame for my want of not profited to the extent of a sing~e far_. caution and my folly, and for nothing more. thing in any way, and we never pro I have been applied to many scores of posed to divide any portion of the money times to give my name to boards during as fees amongst us until the society the last ten or a dozen years, and I have was fairly established. In the next place almost invariably refused. But, for some we have paid considerable sums out of our reason or other, which I cannot account own pockets already on account of this for, I was induced by a :M:r. Richards to society. So that, instead of profiting in consent to have my name used as a direc any way, we have been subjected to great tor of this society. He represented to rue discredit, great trouble, gri';at uneasine~s, that certain gentlemen were also to be and great loss of money already. And clirectors, and I have no doubt I was as far as I am concerned, perhaps one of influenced largely by the business charac- the actions of my life which I deeply re ter of those names. He came to me after gret is having had anything to do with it. wards and induced me to sign the articles But being in the boat, as it were, I am not of association, I understanding and believ going to attempt.to save myself by leaving irig that these gentlemen would be my the other gentlemen whoarewithme. What fellow-directors. I found, however, when we intend to do is to do the utmost we they were completed that other gen can, with the least burden to ourselves, to tlemen and not they, were my fellow discharge all the proper obligations of this directors. For two or three of these society ; or I do not know but what we gentlemen I had a high personal respect, shall succeed in re-organising it upon suc and I allowed my name to go on. I cessful lines. But in any case we are not attended when I could, but latterly I have going to leave these policy-holders in the not attended any of the meetings of this lurch in any way. I regret extremely that society for an obvious reason-I had no 1 have had anything to do with it, but time; 'and I should most certainly have having put my hand to the plough, I alll resigned months ago, only having found not one of those to turn back merely to that we had got into a scrape I thought it screen. myself and leave others to pay the a more honorable course to stand by the penalty. That is about all I have to say, other directors ; and our intentio.!1 is to except this much. If this thing had see this thing through, and though we are been broucrht forward in the interests of .. not rich men, we are determined to bear the poor a~1d unfortunate, a very different [ Sfr Henry Parkes. ;.·, A~· iljournment. [G APRIL, 1887.] -~ Adjournment. 645 tone, and a very different fOrm of lan been directed to this society. He cer guage would have been adopted. As to tainly marvelled that a, w·ntleman with the the paper from which the hon. member experience of the Colonial Secretary shouM has quote1l, I hav:e not read one line in that have been trapped into accepting a position paper; therefore I know not what it has of such responsibility, because he must said of the society, nor of me, nor shall I know that it was not on account of any be likely to read one line in it. Bnt this I capital that they might bring •into the do sayr:that beyond having been extremely funds of those societies that hon. mem- foolish in touching the. thing at all, beyond . hers were Mr. McELHONE thought that, ·what societies, the Anglo-Australian an1oiig' -!< --~~· ever might have beeµ the motive of the them. . They had very little pai '· ...... 'tJ· _. .. Adjournment. [6 APRIL, 1887.J , Adjournment. 647 either the Government 'Savings Bank or the the unfortunate people who had assured bank which was established under an act. in the society should not be put to any of Parliament. It was time that such a loss; that he and his co-directors would state of things was put clown by legislation. redeem the honor of the 'society. It was They should, of course, encourage in every unfortunate that the Premier became a lawful way the establishment of genuine director of the society ; but it would be a building and investment societies, not only lesson to him to be careful in the future. for the•purpose of receiving deposits, but After the exposure which had been made also for lending money at reasonable rates he hoped that no other hon. member would '!', of interest; but proper protection ought be foolish enough to allow his name to be to be affoi;decl ·to the portion of the public used by Mr. Richards. who were not in a position to know the Mr. INGLIS thought that the ringing real position of these societies. He was sure cheers with which the Premier's state that if the Government introduced a bill ment was received showed ho~ keenly this session it would be passed without appreciated was the well-merited rebuke opposition. No o.bjection would be offered, given to the underground engineer, who except by persons interested in these bogus had been hoisted on his own petard to companies. night. He had never seen Mr. Richards; . Mr. GARLAND was glad this debate but several of his transactions had been had taken place, because it threw sonie brought under his notice ; and he believed light on· a circular which he had received that he was one of those exceedingly from this Mr. Richards who was men- plausible and clever adventurers who . tioned. The circular stated that a medical would be very likely to take in any one aid society was to be started, and he was of a confiding disposition. He was told requested to become a director.- There'was that he was so clever that he had actually to be no responsibility ; the directors were got access to the columns of that most to have the privilege of dividing the profits, respectable and highly intelligent evening and all the time that would have to be paper the Globe ; that he was a co-col given would be about a quarter of ai1 hour laborator with seYeral gentlemen on the every month. He made inquiries about other side of the House. He believed Mr. Richards, and he was bound to that he was intelligent enough even" to confess that he found Mr. Richards was write for the Globe. This man, h~ was connected with another, similar society told, was the trusted canvasser of one of which had proved highly successful, and the biggest insurance societies in the se:veral gentlemen of high standing in the world. On one occasion he was given a city were connected with that society. large sum of money to pay for a buggy He agreed with the hon. member for and a pair of horses; but instead of using Boorowa that the time had come when we the money in that way he devoted it .to· should have some legislation with regard other purposes, and gave a promissory to these societies, because there could be note for the buggy and horses. Consider no doubt that if this Mr. Richards were ing the sort of clever schemer that ·he was allowed to go on and induce other gentle-· it was not a matter 'of surprise that he men to become memb~rs of the board of should have worked upon the kindly feel the society which he :was about to form, inwof the hon. member for Northumber the same thing would take place again, land, and madE;l him believe his story. and that he would have another opportu nity to trade on the qredulity of the pub Mr. WALKER: I do not believe his story; lic. There could be no doubt, from what I never said that I did ! he had learned about Mr. Richards, that, Mr. INGLIS thotight that possibly to put it mirdly, he grossly mismanaged there was a sort of arcades ambo feeling the society which had been referred to between the hon. member and Richards. to-night. He understood that the direc From what he had heard of him, he could tors issued cheques to him to pay certain quite understand his being able to get over canvassers, that. he· quietly banked them even an experienced man like the Premier. to his own credit, and gave his own Every hon. member. who heard the brave, cheqUEis, which were dishonored. He was candid, outspoken statement of the Pre very pleased to hear the Premier say that mier, in which he admitted that he had \ • · 1~· ~.1- . '648 Adjournment. "'1cljo~rnment. . .i. ; ,·.: ,, 1t'" ·. - ~ .. been decei\•ecJ, must feel that this W:1S a which wadi'disgrac~ to civili.s]:ttion. _,He case iq which no moral blame could be !).O~v had the agreement, andJwas. qjiite attached to him. prepared to read it if necessary, frrespec" • ' " Mr. MELVILLE thought that after tive of what the verdict. of ti~ cOi:on~_r'( the speech of the Premier there was no oc jury on the explosion at1the Bulli colliery: . casion for the apology of the Minister of might ·be, he wished to direct the attentioiY'./ ... Public Instruction. He was sure that his of the Secretary for Mines to the fact th~t. ff.. hon. colleagi1e had not ·brought forward the evidence clearly demonstr.at:ed the the matter out of any friendly feeling necessity for legislation with regara to .·,. i towards Mr. Richards. ventilation in our collieries. He trusted •it·~;·· Mr. WALKER: I.never saw him in my that the hon. in ember would cr~rlvn his • life! . occupancy of office by doing'what his pr!'l" Mr.· MELVILLE said that air the dis decessors either from fear ·or neglect·hau"\' cussion which had taken place to-night omitted to do, and if he did this he woi1ld tt · would liave been saved if, when he drew find no orie more read/ to assist him .than. attention to the matter last week, the he.should be.· A measure to pro''.•. tl~fCir; Pren;ier had offered the explanation which the better ventilation of collieries. ouglit he had made to-night. He supposed that to be introduced this session, and he liad it was thought that he was too insignificant no doubt that hon. members on both side"s a memh_er to have any notice taken of his · would join in an endeavour to g~t-it pa~sed. remarks, or that he had some malicious He had been very severely criticised foi·,,he'' motive in view. He referred to the matter remarks which he made last week ; but, ~if last week at the instigation of one of the unfortunately, the evidence corroborated• Premier's best friends; so as to give him nearly every word which he uttered. He ;..- an opportunity to clear away th!3 scandal trusted that the Minister would los~S, . with which his name was associated. He time in appointing an independent~rco!ll; had been asked, further, to move for the mission of competent men to inquir~nto l,\ ~...... - ..,\. appointment of a select committee to in- the conduct of the officers of the d~p!!-rt 7 · quire into the matter. The Minister of ment as revealed by the_ evidence at the ., Public Instruction talked about the Pre coroner's inquiry. mier having been led astray by a clever Mr. GARRARD: I understand that advepturer. It was very easy to under the hon. member for Northumberland, Mr. stanCl1 how the Premier could be led away .w· alker-for a re . ,.;., M' ·.. ..:. ~.• a.~- ...... ·~ . It -··~ .. ·· ·.· ..... ~<:~~···.. ·, ·•· •"'\·, ork . . . . . · ,i' • )1djflit1'.ninent, ' [~ APmL, !18.§7.J - , .Adjournriient. 649 ". l'* ,...,.\ ~ .. ; . •. . . . 1:.,~'ai•prospectus, and from my, s9mewhat m- of the society, then they _got h?ld of a tin11.te kn"Owledcre of life assurance busi- man who was employed to mvestigate the +• • ne~ I sa·;,: that"there was one particuI~.. accounts aftei: Richa7ds' suspen~ion-they ·~sche -~ . :~· ...... tL:..: ·~ ...... -~--· - -~--- - """ : 1:: ... .:•. ·• ·.111:._· l-...· ~ ~- :· '\:"' ,. . . .~. ·!. • :lltll" ~ 650 Acljoumment. :f>• [ASSEMBLY.] .Adjo.urnm~i;it. . 0 sidin~ officer, :md Mr. Moloney, the poll clerkt:"-}ie .had b~ght this matter uncle~· the ·• .... I ha\ e ascertamed the facts ~o be as follow.=-:- .. notice of the House. He had atc•all At 4 o'clock p.m., accordmg to the pres1dmg -. . · ~. ' . ~ officer's c'Omputation of the time, none but the events, .given .the Premier an,_oppoit_ui:iity 11 presiding officer, poll 9lerk, and two scrutineers off freemg lumself from the ·:;;uspic10ns• « b~ing .in th~ room, one of the scrutineer~, .by that must have rested upon him from tl:ie · chrect10n or at the request of the .presidmg statements published in the Globe. Al- officer, closed the door of the polling-room. th h th h tl · ht t d. About two minutes after the door had been oug _e. on. gen .eman mig no rea . closed, George Osborne, Esquire (a justice of the Globe, it had somereaderswho~sually · the peace, who resides. at Foxlow, about 5 or followed its suggestions and arguments. 1 6 miles from the P.ollmg-place), pu~hed open Nothin" had influenced his ·judgment in 0 the door, and, entermg the room, said he had h" . · -· ., come to vote. Mr. Gabriel, the presiding officer, t is matter but. the artwle~ -~:'1 the Globe. told him it was past 4 o'clock. Mr. Osborne He knew nothmg of :M.r. · J:i.i£hards, and pulled out his watch and said it wanted eight had never even seen him in ·his life. The" or ten minutes to 4. .Mr. Osborne al.so said, "I proceedin"S of this society had becO'irie--a'tt demand to vote; I will not be deprived of my bl" 0 d 1 d l 1 d h~li·'' vote." The door had not been bolted, nor had pu. ic scan. a' an ie ':as g a t at; · is the ballot-box been opened or unlocked. Mr. act10n to-mght had produced from• the· qsborne was then allowed to vote, as a:lso were Premier an explanation of his relatio!1sl:iip six other voters who had :wcompamed Mr. to the company. If a "entleman like the Osborne from Foxlow. These votors are rnnRt, p · · 'th 11 h · · ot 11' l '1-· if not all; tenants or employees of Mr. Osborne's. remicr, wi a · is m e igenc:. anc ~is~ By the time these votes were taken it was ten cernment, could be led away by a P.lausible n;ii1;rntes pas~ 4 _o'clock, accordirlg to the pre- person like Mr. Richards, how mu~1!. ~rea siding officers tune. The door of the pollmg- liable were the ordinary public to become., room was then closed and bolted, the ball~t-box the victims of designin"' men and thi 4· opened, and votes counted. Both scrutmeers o • s was signed the presiding officer's roll, and neither of all the more reason why the Government the scrutineers made any objection tq the votes should take some action with the view. of •· being taken. . · . protecting the people from these so~ieti(:ll The pres1dmg officer mad~ a note of tlie names He had no other motive in this matter hut ·of those who voted at that tune. No report was . . . .._ made to me, and I heard nothing' of the matter a d~sire to ser;e the mterests of_:.,.t,.he •., until the day n,fter the declaration of the poll, pubhc by exposmg what he had ~ ·On the following Monday, when I was informed reason to believe was a ·fraudulent in ~ffect as above stated. society. If he had displayed any heat -it 'This justice of the peace was deserving of :was not by reason of any personal ani- .a repi·imand from the Colonial Secretary. . mosity towards the Premier or wit_h any Sir' HENRY PARKES: Let.me say at ?nee desire to serve party purposes~ He .re. that, perhaps for the first time, I entirely gretted that the hon. m~mber for ::Ube .agree with the hon. member. I think that, Upper Hunter was not in his place, ,.lie the conduct of the person to whom he had a duty to perform towards that lion. -refers is highly reprehensible. gentleman. The hon. member said 'be 1\'Ir. O'SULLIVAN said that he lived was swindled on one occasion when· he in hopes of being able to conv~rt the hon. paid 2s. to hear him lecture. 1£ the hon. member to protection. All that he wanted gentleinan was of so mercenary a spirit the hon. member to· do was to give-1\'Ir. and so mean that the expenditure of· this Osborne a mild reprimand. 2s. was going to haunt him until he died, Mr. WALKER, in reply, said the by all means let him have the money back Premier had taken him to task for not again. The hon. member for Ba,lmain, '11avincr rriven him notice that he intended who ";as always interrupting him, seemed 0 to bri~g this matter forward. Now, he determined to taunt him with having at -could not possibly have given the hon. one time held other opinions. He wished. :gentleman any notice, as he had not formed to tell that hon. gentleman, and others any intention of dealing with the question who made a similar charge against him, until after reading the whole of the pub- that he was not like a cuttle fish, only lished e,vidence, the last of which appeared capable of exuding mud and enveloping in yes~erd~y's paper: The papers ~ad not himself in it. And if he was in error he•,j.• been 111 his possession for some time, as had, at all events, the example of the· stated by the hon. member for The Upper Premier. He would change his opinions Hunter. In spite of all· that had been nineteen times a clay if the nineteenth~ ·~· said about his motive. s, h~as pleased that change was better than the eighteenth. [Mr. O'Sullivan. l1J * .,. ._ •. Special .Adjqurnment. (6 APRIL, 1887.J Ea~ter Holidays. 651 His opinions when he was ~·~piritnalist have the effect of continuing the good were as honestly conceived and advoca~ejl. humour which had so far characterised _as any of the Christian opinions held by the proceedings of the new Parliament. 'the hon. member for Balmain and the Question proposed. hon. member for 'Paddington (Mr. Allen) . Sir HENRY PARK ES : This· question' •Some people had dishonest views, and is eminently one which the House must stuck to them all their lives. Some determine for itself ; but naturally the people were never capable of any growth Government are anxious to save tin;e and or change of opinion, and did not even to proceed as speedily as possible with the understand the opinions they professed to public business. I do not think, therefore, hold. The opinions which he entertained that I can consent to this motion, and it when he was 19 years of age were at all will be my duty to move this amendment: events sincerely held. He was honest That the words "this day" be omitted with ·then~ and he was honest now. He would the view of inserting in lieu thereof the word probably change again, and if he did, he "to-morro,v." would be honest in his opinions. He was It seems reasonable enough to adjourn willing to follow truth wherever it went, over Easter Tuesday ; but I cannot admit even if it should lead him to a seat next the reasonableness of adjourning to-night the hon.. member for Paddington. If he for a full week. had swindled the hon. member for The Question-That the words proposed to >iiUpper·Hunter out of 2s. he had never be omitted stand part of the question yet been taken to task for having got a put: The House divided : billet for a drunkard i.n order that he Ayes, 49; noes, 25 ; majority, 24. might receive his wages. He had not AYES. yet appeared in the Supreme Court of Ball, E. J. McCourt, ,V. this colony charged with fraudulency. He Barbour, R. McFarlane, J. Black, R. J. Moore, S. 'V. had never had to defend himself against Bowes, J. ,V, O'Connor, D. the c]large of unfair political use of the Cameron; A. O'l\fara, T. C. pow~r placed in his hands by his consti Chanter, J. M. O'Sullivan, E. \Y. tuents. All that could be brought against Clarke, H. Ross, Dr. A. Colls, T. Ryrie, A. him by the hon. member and his friends Dalton, T. Schey, ,V, F. was that he had changed his opinions. He Dawson, H. Seaver, J. C. B. P. was proud to say that he was not of their Dibbs, G. R. See, J. •· opinion. ·~Let these dead, sapless trees of Ellis, J. C. Slattery, T. l\I. Ewing, T. T. Smith, Fergus J. th,1'torest stand where they were ; as for Farnell, Frank Stephen, ,V, him he wopld continue to grow and keep Farnell, J. S. Stevenson, R. pace with the life around him. Fletcher, J. Taylor, H. Question resolved in the negative. Gale, J. Toohey, J. M. Gormly, J. Vaughn, R. l\I. Hawthorne, J. S. 'Valker, T. SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT. Henson, ,V, "ran, "r· C. EASTER HOLIDAYS. Jones, T. "'ilson, A. Mr. GIBBES rose to move : Kelly, J.E. vVoodward, F. Lee, C. A. 'l'ellers That thi~ House do, on its rising this day, Levien, R. H. Gibbes, F. J. adjourn until next 'Vednesday, the 13th instant. Lyne, ,V, J. Hassan, T. H. He said he had placed this motion on the NOES. paper without having consulted any mem Abbott, J.P. McMillan, W. ber of the Government; but because he Abigail, F. Neild, J. C. was aware that the great majority of hon. Allen, A. Parkes, Sir Henry Burns, J. F. Parkes, V. members desired to have the Easter holi Clarke, V{. Roberts, C. J. days extended from the rising of the Copeland, H. Smith, Frank J. House this evening until the following Foster, W. J. Stokes, A. w ednesday. If country members did not Garland, C. L. Sutherland, J. Garrett, T. Teece, v\T. ~·get away to-morrow, they would not be Hawken, N. 'Vise, B. R. able to reach home by Good Friday ; and Inglis, J. Tellers, if they had to return by Tuesday, it would Martin ,V. F. Merriman, G. interfere with their enjoyment of Easter Matheson, G. McL. Street, J. R. Monday. The relaxation would probably Question so resolved in the affirmative . .. .. ·······~~ t 't°l.f ' •i;; I, .,.... ~~--, ~ "::' ·~ ..... ,,...... 'Ji "'ii/f ~. 652 Ways and JV.leans. [ASSEMBLY. J· Financial Staternent. .~ Motion (by Mr: S;EVENSON) n~oved : ;·"-·which wast derived ·from a source for That the words" \Vednesday, the thirteenth. which the present Government.can lay no instant," be omitted for the purpose of snbsti- claim for credit. That is from the ad t~i~g_, the words "TL1esday, the. twelfth in- valorem duties. The hon. gentleman pro- s .n • poses to destroy in one act a source of Amendment not seconded. revenu,e which has yielded to the revenue Original question resolved in the affir- an increase of £96,496 during the last rnative. three months. The hon. gentleman, in WAYS AND MEAL~S. making the announcement of this marvel- On the order of the day for the resump- lous increase of revenue, almost led the tion of CornIT\ittee of vVays and Means House to believe that it was entirely clue being read, · to the munificent act of Providence which Mr. J: P. ABBOTT asked the Colonial placed hon. gentlemen opposite in posse~ Treasurer when it was his intention to bring sion of the Government benches. ·The forward. the various resolutions~ There hon. gentleman flapped his wings . like was a resolution before the Comri1ittee the Gallic cock of old, and one would now ; but he thought it was usual to place imagine that one of the greatest bless all the resolutions f6rmally before the ings which'Providence had bestowed upon Committee. · this country was that the hon. gentle Sir HENRY PARKES : Not at this stage! man was in office, and that ,,this in :Mr. J. P. ABBOTT thought it had been crease had consequently accrued tJ\the,. dorn'l. revenue. This source of revenue, which Mr. BURNS said he would be prepared the hon. gentleman proposes to destroy~ to submit the resolutions at the close of has given an increase without the con debate, which was the customary mode of sumers, who contribute to it, having felt procedure. the loss of a single 6d. Then the sum of £223,000 is largely made up by deposits FINANCIAL STATEMENT. on the auction sales of land. That is the SECOND NIGHT'S DEBATE. result of the labours of my late colle.iigue, In Committee of Ways and Means : the hon. member for N e\v England, in Debate resumed (from 30th 'March) on preparing for sale certain lands in the motion by Mr. Burns : immediate vicinity of Sydney. The next That towards making good the supply granted item is also due to the late Minister for to her Majesty for the services of the year 1887, there be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue Lands in having vigorously exercised the Fund of New South \Vales the sum of £2,144 functions of his office. It has been de for the expenses of the establishment of his rived from pastoral rents and past~ral Excellency the Governor for the year 1887. licenses, the result of the appraisements · Mr. DIBBS: Before offering some re commenced during my late colleague's marks on the speech of the Colonial term of office, and fully completed. Treasurer, I think it is a fitting time to £104,000 were received, and the present refer to a few words spoken by the hon. Government can claim no credit for that. gentleman last Friday. He informed Then there is an item of £26,000, received the House of a marvellous increase which through an increase in the railway income, had taken place in the revenue for the last which may be considered as due to the '/'" quarter as compared with· the correspond increased rates proposed and put into force ~· ing quarter of 1886. I invite hon. mem by my late collea.gue, the hon. member for bers to pay particular attention to the The Hume. Therefore this increase in the sources of the increase shown in the remark revenue of £223,000 for last quarter is able ir,formation given in the Gov~rnment due to this side of the House, and not to Gctzette.· I would ask hon. members to the members of the present Government. p,ay particular attention to the items Both sides of the House will agree at 'which make up the increase of £223,000 any rate that it is a matter for congratu for the quarter before they arrive at any lation that the revenue in some shape or·:. conclusion on the proposals of the hon. other is on the increase. I will not allude gentleman. I find that an increase of to Providence, and the remark of the £96,496 took place in the last quarter as Colonial Secretary out of doors that he compared with the same quarter in 1886, never relies on Providence, and blames '*.• ·. __ ··~%#.t,.1+---MF1i~.i-··S·~; ·.·w---~- .,, ·~~:·· , ; ·;~ .. .. i,\ . . . ' ·• . . Financial Statement. [6 APRIL, 1887.] ' Financial Statenient. 653 past treasurers 'l\'.ho'.did so; tiJht;I main~olonial Treasurer estimated they would tairi that ~this increase of revenue is due be. I add that amount to his probable . - to the return o(_good seasons and the .ce~;- deficit, because if the late Government sation of the drought ; and it is not owing were unable to carry .any taxation, espe- ,. to the fact that the present Government is cially in regard to the taxation of pro· in office. I propose' before going.to the perty, I am sure the present Colonial -- really interesting part of the discussion- Treasurer would also have been unable that isA which concerns the public-to to do so; therefore, inasmuch as the call th'e attention of the Committee to present Colonial Treasurer's estimated" this fact. The hon. gentleman severely expenditure was £550,000 larger than Sir ...... :... - .. -. 654 Financial Statement. [ ASSEl\:IBbY. J Financictl Statement. unintentionally, I believe, on the part ~~vent from 'first to last. The question ~as those who misled us. I do not; wish to been one of delayed payments by reason be ungenerous to those who misled us, of the conditions I have described; and although they wer;e very ungenerous to the payments have been still further de me. I now wish to sa.y a few words with layed by the present Minister of Lands, regard to the deficit. We had the changes who bas brought in a bill framed on a ;rung on this deficit during the late elec- principle of which I heartily approve. I tion at all the Sydney electorates. At tell hon. gentlemen opposite and the •cone. meeting addressed by Mr. Daniel squatters in this House and out of it, that :O'Connor, which I did him the honor to if the Minister is prepared to give an ex attencl, he made out the deficit to be tension of time to squatters of four or even £450,000 more than it really was. The five years, instead of two years as in the .changes were rung on this deficit as the bill, I shall vote for it. The squatting in result of the gross extravagance of the clustry is the all-important industry in this party in office since 1883, and a large por- colony. It is the back-bone of the country, .tion of it was put clown to my financial and the Government will act wisely and plundering. Now, how do we stand~ I with statesmanship in assisting the squat take the evidence of the Minister for Lands ters on the principle contained in the hon. .as thoroughly reliable, because he never gentleman's bill. I intend to move an speaks without thinking. He told the amendment which I have had prepared for House when he was introducing a bill to some time, extending the time to five years, give, certain concessions to the squatting and I believe I shall carry that amendment interest that 'the arrears of rents due by in the interests of the country. But while ~ the squatters which would be payable this we make concessions to the squatters, the .year if the House did not give an exten- wealthy class of the community, I appeal .sion of time amounted in round numbers to the House to make some concession to to £2,000,000 sterling. the labouring people of this colony repre- Mr. GARRETT : Not arrears. I said sented by the free selectors. £1,250,000 ! . Mr. GoR~rLY: The selectors have P,aid Mr. DIBBS: I heard the hon. gentle- everything! · ;man say here that the arrears of rent due Mr. DIBBS: I have letters in my pas .by the squatters and what would pe taken session from leading selectors in various from them for the current year would be parts of the country, and it must be evi £2,000,000. The Government is really a dent to every hon. men:iber that if the mercantile concern. Through delays in squatter has suffered by the drought and the administration of the Lands Act, delays low prices, the selector has suffered in a caused by a change in the land law which like degree. When I come to the latter had been in force for twenty-five years, portion of my remarks, and deal with the the rents have been allowed to fall in policy of the Government in regard to arrear, but still they will come in eventu- taxation and concession, I will point out ally, and as in them you have an asset tbat that taxation and c::oncession .is all in of £2,000,000, where is the deficit of favour of one class, the wealthy on the one £2,500,000 ~ That is the answer I give hand, and against the working and poorer to the shower of abuse which has been classes on the other. If I get the support poured on my broad shoulders during the which I think I deserve in this House, some last two years. Those rents are a realisable concession shall be made to the unfortunate asset, and they have only to be asked for free selectors whose balances and instal and the financial institutions of the country ments are due on the 31st of March last, will provide the money. The hon. member and whose holdings are liable to forfeiture for East Sydney, Mr. McMillan, will tell at any moment at the will of the Minister. you that if he were dealing with the assets There is no concession proposed in the of any bank in this country and he found Minister's bill giving them one farthing of a balance due to the bank of £2,000,000, relief. When we extend the time for the · that would be an asset which would have squatter, we must in fairness make a can to be taken into consideration before you cession to the free selectors, ~or the tidal dared accuse the bank of being insolvent. wave of depression throughout the country The position of this colony has been sol- has caused not only the squatting interest [Mr. Dibbs. - '" '*; ·~"*"''t~ • ... 7M'""· ··-~-.··-~"""7'1' ·~ ~ •... - .. =w r ~ _ . Financial Stateinent. f iJ [6 A'.PRIL, f°887.] , , Financial Sta~;ment. 655 to suffer, but :·also the free ifi.'ecting and4 land~; the public, thP-y put themselves the farming interest. If. ·~we are in tha·i~ the awkward position of having a short most enjoyalile statfl of solvency which th'e income, and, nominally, creating a deficit. Colonial -Treasurer has pointed out, and ~ow, the deficit at this moment stancls ' ,... I:'~ .. .It ~ 1& L,,. #' r ·=~-.'f·· .... "'" ... 656 Financial StatemerJ,t. [ASSEM BJ.. Y. J Financial S,tcitement. years 1877 and 1878. ;i:i1 the ~arly part.. .i\.'would not" have· been able tO bear. the of 1879 he had a surplus of,£2,500,000; strain;, the Gq,vernment could not have· but before the,end of 1879 the whole of gone i>~L supplying millions out of the it had been expended, and had vanished into . Treas1,1,i:j' for. the purpose of providing thin air. The present Colonial Secretary bonuses, billets, and bridges, court-houses then nro.posed his famous wool and coal and wharves, leaving these things as a '1 ·duties:. This£2,500,000,whichMr.'Watson legacy to succeeding govemments to be claimed c1~edit for, ar?se from land sales.· kept going. In 1883 the revenue from !He 1<;1.eclaimed against surpluses, because _land sales was £958,000. ';' they iM the country into extravagance. I Mr. J. ·s. FARNELL: That 'is from im- remember well that the PremieL" also spoke provement purchases ~nd auction _sales! " agains:t-.these surpluses, and hoped that Mr. DIBBS: Yes, the amounts which th~y would -soon cease -- I am stating represent the returns from . .'.- Si1' HENRY PARKES : Hear, hear! sales-rents are not included. In 1884, the 1\'11i; J;,>IBBS : Because they lan'ded tlie revenue from land sales ,V-as £1,0S7,000; · . country 'into extravagance and improvi- in 1885, £1, 162,000; in 1886, £1,076,000. ;. '•dence. In 1881 the tide began to rise During these four years, the Stuart Go again;;.and thel"e was no necessity for wool vernrnent-the so-called i)arty of extrava aP,d coal duties, the revenue from land .gance and improvidence-actually dis- " ., : sales in that year ):>eing £2,229,000. In_ pensed with nearly £6,000,000· of re~ 1882 it: 'vas £2,167,000. It was at the venue which would have been received; if end of this year that a change of govern- the co.untry could have stood the <;!rain: ·~· -ment took place, and the Stuart Govern- I always put it as condition precede_nt to (';!' I .-. ment entered office. Now, mark the first the power of the people buying Janel that aqt ~f the Government. They stoppe<;l the the financial institutions w·ere able to pro wP,olesale plunder of the public estate, and vide the sovereigns. If that source of re~ thi1 is r.eally the cause of the deficit. venue had been continued instead of ha Ying Mr; BURNS: No! a deficit now, we should have a large s"t1r- Mr. DIBBS: Is any hqn. member bold plus. It says a good deal for the .gQ,£>d enoug!i to say "no" 1 . Gov~rnment of the country, in my opiriion; Mr. )3.~nrns : I say '~·no " ! that considering that we have an asset· of. Sir HENRY PARKES : I say "no" ! £2,000,000 due by the squatters .'to-day, . Mr: PIBBS : The Treasurer has put in spite of droughts, low price of wool; ·certain figµres in my hand, and I shall and loss of stock, and against a tide of ad~ read them,.'without making any comment versity which spread not only over Aus- on them. In ;1882 the revenue from the tralia, but also over the whole world, we ~a,te,of land was £2,167,000, and in 1883 have saved our land, and have practically ~~58,000, or over £1,200,000 less than a deficiency of only. £500,000. What is iri the previous year. How easy it is to. there for croakers, for hustings talkers, create a deficit when you stop a big source and those who come here under the name of supply like that! vVe left the people and credit of the Premier to talk about 1 the land to select, and yet we are charged Where are the grounds for their denuncia with irhprovidence and extravagance. vVe tion of the men who governed the country. took'·adetermined stand against the whole- , wisely and well during that period 7 I S!tle 'alienation of the public estate, under would point out further that during that whjch money rolled into the Treasury to time the . "'.ages paid by the Go1,ernment such an e;:ctent that the Trea,surer did not to the working men were not lowered, but know what to do with it. The Government they were increased ; and further still, w_e supporters were able to get whatever they ·did not have a black vVednesday ...Those -required for their constituents, and in this who take up the cuckoo cry about' bad '.~.Y' ,the extravagance and improvidence . management and bad financial arr~nge commenced. . I quite agree with the re- ments, say that we are trading on Provi- c~l:nark which the Premier made at that dence when we tell them that droughts " ..time t}1at these surpluses demoralise the and other misfortunes have brought about Housc·and the people, and I say that had the present state of things. vVhen the the state of affairs which existed between estimates are under considera.tion, I 1872 and 1882 been continued, the country shal~ be~able to point out the''·extrava- , .• [ .Jfr. Dibbs. . . .~·: .:..- ~ . .. . • ., -~ '/ . Financial Statement. [6 KPRIL, 1887.] " Financial Statement. 657 ganc~ of the pr~sent Treasuft·. I thinKf{I' Mr. ~~BBS: ',['hat is a perfectly fair I have said sufficient to refute the whole- retort, but let me tell the hon. member that sale charge of extravag~nce "'liich he .I pecame bald to prevent becoming grey. made against the Parkes-Robertson Go- But I am dealing with the Treasurer at vernment, t)1e Stuart Government, and p1:esent. He spoke about the extravagance the Jennings Government, with which he of our public borrowing. I as4: t1!-e hon. was not connected. I believe that no member what caused the borro1~ing of the· other •country in the world could have Stuart Government for three years 7 I ask gone through the misfortunes to which hon. -members to lOok at the docmnents -~. this colony has been subjected with so which are on the table. Was it the'public .; immll a loss. Probably, it says more for works policy of the Stuart Government or the country than for the governing power ; of the Jennings Government 7-cif(course, it shows the elasticity of the country, and the Government which I had the... honor to its enormous wealth, and that it would lead only existed so as to keep govern~nt thrive 'if it were left alone, and its pro- alive until more distinguished m€Jh~came..:. gress were not interfered with by new tariff to the front. The Treasurer tells us t_hat ·- proposals every year. by their extravagance and improvidence""f Sir HENRY PARKES: Hear, hear; the Stuart Government and the Je~ni~gs_ · . Government ran up the public debt to Mr. DIBBS: I supp~se _we n~us~ mter- something like £35 per head of the popu- -:• - 4 . pret .the hon. · ~1ember s mte1:1ection as Iation. That is the sort of childish thing me~nmg. that hi~ proposal to amend the I should expect to hear from a small: boy ~.-.. '-• ·' ... •.". . . ; •::- . '658 · :Finctncial Stcttement. . (AS~EMBBY:J Financial Statement . . . ' Sir HENRY PARKES: -Where are the , · Mr. DIBBS: There ~re hon. members .4,000 miles 7 .sitting. behind ;_n{e. who will give details Mr. DIBBS: I shall haye to ask .the to jt1stify every word that I have said. hon. member to- take advantage of .~he .. What '15ecomes of the extravagance and Public Instruction Act if he .cannot follo\v improvicl~nce which the hon. member talks me, b~.ca.~~.e I think that I am per~ectly abouti Who voted fqr the Mudgee-\.Val- ·. ~plear· .. m my statement. I am usmg a lerawang railway, which has nevel' paid reditc[~o ad absitrdum argument to show -the cost of grease· for the· wheels 1 My . \'~ow·misleacling are the calculations of the . -extravagant, improvident friend, the pre Treasurer, and how unfair are· the results .sent Treasurer. Who voted for the J unee ·which.are produced from them. ·It must ·to Narrandera line7 My .~xtravagant .?~ '?o~i?:.{i.n m~nd that, in addition to. the .friend again. Who voted ·for the Hay ·or~mary' workmg expenses of the railways', and J erilderie lines 7 My hon. frie_nd: : I _ the''.!nt~rest on the money borrowed for could go on enumerating. public~ wol'kS ..~~ ~heir~S?lf~truction has been an increasing .which were voted for by this publi6.rnoraI; . ,~1~~.Jll duripg_ the te~ years, ai;id this item ·ist-tpis pure-minded man.:._who is. so in; · }~as to be charged agamst the railways. Th:e digna_nt about the extravagance of_ his pre.- ?~~aS:tI,i:e~:, in his laborious effort to damage . decessors, and who tells us that a new ..J).1s _opppnents," attributes all· these extra order of things has b~en inaugurated since <· .. ·cha1•ges' 'to bad. government. Now, as to he has joined the Government. The new· ·. ·tJ:i,~~. l~~~~ which have. been contracted order of things is this : that there remain . gurmgrecent years, I want the Committee to be completed some of, these public wo_rks to_ understand that shortly after the Stuart . which the Stuart Government had left to .: Government took office they had to raise ·them as a legacy from their predece~;ors, · a 'loan.. They had submitted no railway and my hon. friend will have to borrow .proposals-no public works proposals. money to complete them. He will have to They had to raise four or five loans, which do something more than that if he does .doub~e.d ·the public debt, to do_.:.what i not want to see the number of unemployed .,.. To'constructworksthecontractsforwhich · men walking about the streets o~ Sydney _had ~:~n. let by their predecessqrs. increased by thousands. · I think that I . Mr. ~)JRNS: No! have shown the way ·ii1 which the_ fina.n- .. Mr. DIBBS: The Homebush-Waratah cial statement has been padded and made '. -'· railwaY., .the IJlawarra railwaY., and the up for the purpose of driving a bolt or western, soµthern, and northern extensions, sticking a dart into an. opponent. The _have been'._ih course of construction durini? Premier and the Treasurer have been de- h 1 t ,. fi ~ luding the country.:._if they have not been ··;;. t ~ e:~a_s 1our or vc :years. They did not ·.J.'OrID;"Part of the pohcy of the Stuart Go- deluding themselves-as to the extrava- , .~ernment, but that Government had to gance of previous· governments. - At one .borrow the money for th~m, and now they of my election meetings, I was twitted are accused of extravagance for pushino- by a gentleman who made an .excellent on works which' were sanctioned by Pa;_ speech with having been a member of the )iaµiEi'nt at the instance of the Parkes two governments.which had increased the .G?v~l;Jt~'ent: I wonder when the public public debt to £41,000,0QO. I fancy I will,¢~a,se to be gullell by such statements, .again hear the· howl of horror. of tha when'theywill see for themselves that these audience when that gentleman, pointing statem.e,nt~. are simply tares sown amono- to· me, said,· "Here is the man ·who has .the enemy's wheat. Then. there are se\ve:-. borrowed up P? £4.1,000,000-just fancy age works, water works, and other large that each of you carries on your back a :U!J.derta,kings contracted for by the Parkes debt of £41 !" I said at once, ".If you Goy-!'lrnment, for which the Stuart Govern- elect me, and' in due time I again ge_(into ID..~j1t,~bad to borrow the money. office, I shall do my best to incrilas~: the .. _.'·1Mr:BuRNs: No! amount to £82,000,000." I said'' so to • , show the absurdity of the statement. • :},' Mr::,PIBBS : .That is a very feeble What an absurdity it, is for any man, sup . ·" N ()?(';" Let the hon. member point out to posed to be possessed. of intelligence, to the contrary. telJ the electors, "Each .of yo~ 'is liable Mr. Bu~NS : I, shall do so.! for £41 cif the indebtedness of tife··state !'' " []fr. Dibbs. · '"• _ >: : "·.. l}'inancial ,Statement. (6 _t\;~RIL, 1887:] Fincvncial Statement. · 659 Why, a school-boy w9ulcl at once ask, what;,.:.saving of between. £.40,000 and £50,000 asset have you to set against thati There is effected. I claim the credit of .that. is the value of our railway.s. I told' the The Government have talked a great deal .electors of The Murrumbidgee, and I tell about retrenchment, but when we look' the Treasurer now, that if 'he is in in.to the estimates we find that they have .clined to sell the railways and tramways, not done much in that directiop. It is _ I will within three. months from to-day ,true that they have.dismissed ·about 120 find a purchaser for them at a sum which clerks from the Lands ·Department. '.l will wipe out our public debt. Let us say that this is a monstrous injustice; be" _develop the resources of the country, settle cause wnile we can show a surplus at the .the people on the soil, .and, cover the end of the year of £910,000, we have no . ,country with a network .of railways to right to put 120 families on the str,eets to bring produce to market, and if they cost starve. Retrenchment is one thing, . but .£82,000,000 they will form the best asset a "Black Wednesday" is another th'illg; w~ichipqsterity can have.at our hands .. I Now, I.come to the department,.O.r the:;. .thmk that I have sufficiently dealt with Treasurer. My careful, non-extravagant " .the Chinese blandlike simplicity of the friend, the great political moralist, has,,. ·statement of the Treasurer with regard to n,ot saved anyt.hing in that department...... ,, .extravagance and improvidence.. I leave in fact, there is an increase of· £18,000~ .the hon. member to a contemplation of the. .In j~stice to the hon. member, I must say subject as I have presented it. A man is that this is attributable to increased ex the most ·honest critic of himself i~ he will penditure in the way of interest; ..'l'he allo'w~himself to be so, and the hon. mem- fact that the hon. member has not made a .be~\vill see how he has been trying to re'duction of one shilling in the depart-" . .bamboozle the people by his statements- ment is the highest compliment which I shall· not say that he has bamboozled . could be paid to my. three years' adn#nis~ them, because I think· that they are too tration. Notwithstanding the reckless; .intelligent to be misled in s'uch a way. dare-devil that I am-the most extrava- N ow I want.to say a few words with re- gant man who ever lived, says the'1Pre gard to the ways and means portion of mier-the Treasurer cannot work, his. de the hon. member's figures. Although be partment. at less cost than I worked it: · -has had n. pretty severe roasting from me Unmerited abuse was heaped oii the Jen already, I have not done with him yet. nings Government from one end. of -the Taking the estimates of tl:iis_Government country to the other because they did not of retrenchment, I first of all come to the retr~nch, yet this Government"of retrench .Colonial Secretary's Department, in which ment have adopted our estimates .to a .the Treasurer takes credit for a reduction large extent. I find r~tfenchnient to. of £89,533. Hon.. members opposite say, which I object in toto. For example, ,it· " Hear, bear, this Government is faith- is 'proposed to reduce the vote for chari" .ful to its pledges as to retrenchment." table institutions by £20,000-a reduction What does. this retrenchment consist of~ which I say ought not to be made. If Why the whole of the items were struck ever there is a time when the. cha.i:~table off by the Jennings Government three institutions are likely to be drawii''upon months before they left office.-- This is to a large extent 1t is now. This is no the botching way ·in which the Treasurer time. to go in :for such wretched, :i{ifserly put his figures before the Committee. I economy as this, particularly as we. are .propose to do with this the converse of to have a surplus of £910,000. The. what I propose to do with the Land Bill. Treasurer tells us that he thinks that I propose to clothe the skeleton of the £125,000 will be a sufficient sum to ex- . Minis~er· for Lands, and to strip the figure· pend on public works .this year. That is befor~'. me now. The Treasurer has the purely a matter of opinion, but the :Eiouse audacity:-! can use no milder term-to cannot increase the amount, except'byrthe claim as retrenchment the stoppage of the ingenious process which has been resorted immigration vote of £35,000, which was to by two supporters of the Gove_rnment,. stopped by the late Government. · I claim who have made a consid~rable adv'ance . • the credit. of that. Then there are the re- towards getting £35,000 for. certam pur- . ductions' ~n the military force by, which a poses. This is the sort of retrenchment •A ._Second nigl~t. .•~ ...J ' .·.: T"r. "•''-'\( ..... ,.;:",,' '1,' 660 P.inancial Statement. [ ASSEM.BLY.] Financial. St~ternent. :;;-_..,, . , . which we are to have;--reducing the, ex consi~er satisfactory. The hon. member pend.iture on public works in one year to having ruade.:so, much capital out of the the extent of £250,000. And I say that defic~t, .:incl lia:ving secured such a large that is not retrenchment of which this House following. out of it, we cannot .afford to " will approve, because it comes at a tin\~ allow him tq wipe ,it off· by saying that when .we:have people walking our streets with some "sort of thing" he intends to t.;~ , . : .in ~earch' of employment. Good states- provide for it. This House has a right to 1): ;- '\:: · man'ship and good government ought to go receive from the Government a definite ·~ •. ;·; th('l.'length of doing all: the l)ublic_ work we statement as to how it proposes to deal ·~ . '-possibly can rather than increase the ranks with the deficit. vVe have a right to ask, .:i: · ~; ·of the unemployed. It is very easy for the ·and the banking and commercial interests ; ; Gq.vernnient to condemn the extravagance - of the country-I appeal again t.o the · ·· oJ'. •t,heir . predecessors and · profess rigid hon. member for .East Sydney, J\'fr. :eco110JUy on their own part, but it is not McMillan-have a right to· know,M~ether "\: •:" : ·ecolioniy to stop expenditure when public when demands are heavier upon th~. banks >\vorks are needed-and there are thou than at other times-at the close of the .);a~ds qf places inthe colony whe:e they season-they are to be :flooded in the "are 0 ' - ~ ·sort ··of security is going to be issued, and the Government. Has my. hon. friend for this· reason I asked a question this ever taken this ·fact into · consideration; ~~·afternoon, that if he goes on to the .Londqq)narket the answer to which.I do not ' ,·1 ..\:,~ . [Mr. Dibbs. ,.,t ... " ','' ')"' ;- ' ... , Financiai Statement. [6 APRIL, 1887.] Financial Stcitement. 661 for a £5,000,000 loan °in the month of · That is just contrary to the golden rule of January-and if lie does not go before he taxation laid down by Adam Smith, one of which is that a tax should fall as nearly as must go then-he will be met . with. the ·possible in proportion to the ability of the persoa answer, '' vVhy you are going to issue a· taxed to pay. loan for £2,500,000 towards the end of The words are : "J nst in proportion to the year in your own colony ; are we to the revenue he derives under, the protec have two separate securities in the mar tion of the state he should be caHed upon ket i Are we to have inscribed stock in to contribute to taxation." the money market of London, and also de bentures with eight years currency in the Sir HEX RY P ARirns : Sound, JlS usuJLl !~ colony" i The Committee must not agree Mr. DIBBS: I agree with the hon .. to anything of the_ kind. Judging by the gentleman. It is so sound th_at I ,arri financial statement, and taking the hon. going to judge the £seal proposals of the gentleman's own figures, we are to have a Government by it; and when I find Adam surplus of £910,000 this year. Does he Smith indorsed by Sir Henry Parl{es, it want eight years with that surplus to pay is a principle that will wash you may be off a deficit of £2,500,000 i I would sug- sure. That is not only one of the ''great . gest to my hon. friend-and I do so in the maxims of Adam Smith ; but it is :i,lso, interests of the country-that within a one of the great maxims which 'have been reasonable period he should issue Treasury accepted by every economic writer, whe- bills, with a currency of four year_s, re: ther on the i;ide of free-trade or: pr,dtec- -r' ·~· deemable by £500,000 being set aside tion. . I a~k whether the fiscal proposals eve·ry year out of our surplus of £910,000. of the Government come within the line,. If the hon. gentleman will accept this drawn here 7 I say the principle 'is'., suggestion I shall be prepttred to show' totally departed from in tlie proposals of/ him a feasible plan by which the money the Government. I may be twitted by may all be raised in the colony, without some simple yo"ung gentlemall' new to,this affecting the banks or the commerce of the House, and representing one of the Sydney country to the extent of a single 6d. But constituencies, with appearing in 'if hew until I know def!nitely-ancl I intend to character in tLdvocating the rights of the -know before this debate closes-what the weak against the strong. It may be said Treasurer intends to do, I am not prepared that I am posing in a. new character in to make a suggestion of what should be ·speaking of the humbler classes of the clone. But if the hon. gentleman intends community known as the working-classes;·. to pay 5 per cent. interest, I will show I say at once that I never did pose as the him ·where he can get the money for 4 per working man's friend ; and I never asked, cent. This brings me to the financial pro the wo~king man for more tha.n .a fair;·;· posals of the Government for the current independent, and honest support. I 1'1e've1~ .year, and their fiscal_ policy. I am going ran after the working man to make him .to reaa to the House t'vo or three lines believe that he was any better than 'his from Acla,m Smith, through the medium neighbour. I always said to the working of his proxy and mouthpiece in this House, man, " You are as independent as. I am ; Sir Henry Parkes ; and I will· ask the ·let us judge each other fairly, and let us Committee whether the principles put for respect each other's independence." That ward by the Premier in his speech from is unquestionable ; so that I cannot be which I shall quote, are carried out in the twitted with adopting this line of argu \ fiscal proposals of the Government. ment for the pllrpose of posing as the \ I Sir HEXRY PARKES : You all quote from friend of the working man, a1id setting my speeches-every one of you ; you can Class against class. I would despise any. not do without them ! man who would set class against class, and Mr. DIBBS : There are t\vo books from especially who would set the humbier which I quote in this House-one is the classes against the .higher classes of th,e , Bible, and the other the hon. member's community. ·r object to that altogether;. ..., speeches. The hon. gentleman said : but I do like justice, and T say .that tl:\!'l 1· · His ability to pay is· no justification why he ~vorking-classes in this community ai'e:.· ' should be taxed.. · treated with rank injustice under the Then.the,.hon. gentleman went on to ~ay : financial pi"oposals of the Government.. . . · Second night. . " , ,·, ,. . ) • ·J* ._ ..... >--...:>~' 662 Financial Statement. [ ASSEMBpY.] Financial ·Statement. " I ask any member of the Government they are not p~epared to cai·ry out the ~ . . would he dare to appear befor~ any Sydlley policy under 'fhich they were sent here ; .·' :. : ,, constituency, and tell those ~'Vho voted for and that· policy was to wring from those •J-:;· him, " vV e are going to propose taxation.; 'v.ho are . least able to bear it an undue _. .. · .I but J>rop~.sl1an:n:ocl;JeaF:it§j~ilare, proportion of -the taxation necessary' to """ ... . \~dan .we ~.~ are oppose d to an rncome-tax . ~". carry on the government of the country. . :!]heyff,av~ not been t~·ue to their i;rust; If the ad valorem dutiel[:l were continued, ~ · .-.tpey lmve betrayed their supportel's. The those persons who ·wear silks and satins ' J$-e.. n~1iligs Government' passed a property and jewels would be called upon to pay tax in the shape of a· land-tax through according to their means. But no, that this House ; and in our desire to make . would not do; the Government say to the _ ,.,_.~xa~!on equitabl~}we pass.ed a~ income- 'toilers-even to the unemployed-" We ~~ . ; ta:is. ~p. to a certai)1 stage m this House, intend by our fo;cal · policy to turn you , . . ·a'liq."'then it,was defeated. However, the upon the streets ; we \vill put y'ou ,under ~ . : . J enningi;; Government are things of the the iron rule of this free-trade-1.;u"iil.mad ~•; :~pas~/thB,.tur! is growing over them, and policy. . You have borne the h~at and 4 _,. ·~a I am dealing with a living government bur~len of the day; you gave us your votes ~frE!s4)'.?bm th!'1~ hustings. The ink on the to enable us to tax property, but now that • p_oll-Clerks' pen which returned them was we are in power we intend to be liberal to ~ ~ •• ·;.sea. i~elyt:l.rywhen they betrayed the pledges the rich; we will give unto him that hath, ' r '. th'ey g~~e to the people. would they have and take from him that hath not." I say . ~~re~l to~say to the 'vorking men, whose again that I do not wish to be persona~ in ·votes they had by the thousand, " When my remarks; but there are hon. meml;>ers ~'Wfget into the House with a working who are new to politics, and•'ltl:fe·~ is Jl!ajority of two'thirds, when we can carry nothing like experience. I was reading a ·•: .;. anything by bi·ute force, we will betray .book the other night by Lord Overton, the " you ;:~e will make the incidence of taxa banker, in which he lays it down as a ru~.' · t. ,-- tion:1fall ()n your backs, you fools." If they that no knowledge is worth having which had done so, would one of them have been is not gained by the fire of experience; If l • . , .~alive to_ tell the tale~ · They did not tell hon. members go before .the people on the ~'. r.• the w~king man that ~he system of taxa- hustings they must be honest in their W' tion 'vhich had been carried by the previ- . statements and their actions, ot~e~wise ~ : ·~ous Government, upon which it was en- they' will be brought under the fire of tf ' deavou~d to fasten the stigma of protection, criticism-criticism which knows no friend ~ was framec!!,upon the principles laid down but what is good for the country.; and by Adam Smi_th, being in accordance with there are some hon. members who must .. '.:;1 ,tJie i:11qome enjoyed and the protection de receive their baptism of fire. First of all i{ved fi:om the state. Those who can afford I shall deal with an old personal friend of to \~ear a fifty guinea· velvet dress have to mine, aud I shall deal with him on the ·:~ pay 5 per cent. on its value under the ad assumption that he is a link in the free- valorem duties, while the humbler female, trade party in the House, which will gi1;e :'\. who V,ears a dl'ess of the value of f5s., its blind support to everything which the only •has to pay according to its value. Premier asks for. I have noticed that on :..,.· · The ~althy classes ever since we have one or two occasions my hon. friend has ·had R~ponsible Government never paid a given votes which I am sure must have sixpence to the Government of the country severely tried bis conscience. in proportion to . the advantage they de Mr. McMILLAN : Are you the keeper of ~ rive 'from safe government. The Govern his ·conscience~ .ment say to these classes, "Under Sir i\Ir. DIBBS : I am· speaking ·of :my ••:ft'. Patrick Jennings' taxation you pay friend, the hon. inember for East Sy,%~y, · £400,0QO a year; but we are going to give Mr. Street. The hon. member was re np that taxation. vVe are going to relieve t~rned to the House as a free-trader, but he is the chairman of a company, and I hope ., ~!~: ti~~~h[o c~~:~~s t~fe~~;k~~~~:i~~:~dp:; a large shareholder, which this tariff pro- '!' _ £370;QOO a year on their spirits, their beer, poses to protect to the extent of 125 per and tobacco." The Government took the cent. on the value of the. article, ,Yet the ~ ~· reins of office under false pri;;tences, if wqrkmen employed in . prodft!~~ng the ~,~' ~I~ [Mr. Dibbs. _ /:~· ... -"!'· r, '··:, "'!·,t:· ., •'-. '"'): - ., •'""'"".... ,,, " .t~~- .. ~ . ·-.· ., . jl.· .. ',t:;•, Finff,ncia~.§tatement. [6,,A~RIL, 1887.] Financial Statement. 663 article are to be called upon to pay heavy ment; that is, to benefit the wealthy classes. taxes. I know that my hb~. friend is an And .that brings me to the point t.hat the honorable man in the true sense ,of the very Land Bill introduced to give relief to .. , ... term, and it is only necessary for Jiim to t~e squatters ignores the rights of a large : . have his sins pointed out as those of the class of the community who deserve our , • psalmist of old were, and he will turn attention. I trust that my hon. frienclwill . , • from his wickedness and live a respectable pause on the brink of political ruin~b~fore -~~ . ' politician. If the hon. member supports, he allows himself to be branded as. a'1'poli~-!:+'~'...,; ·\· the policy of the Government he will have tical sham by continuing to vote und~t\the..-c,. · · to justify his conduct before the electors manifesto and flag of the Premier, who - ;._ . . • of East Sydney, and the only justification has so ruthlessly betrayed the trust .of th~ .,.:.:J: which he will be able to offer will be that people who sent him ~ere. A few\,~ord~ ~"!Ji'·' he voted for the retention of the duty of m regard to my hon. friend, Mr. Mel\. '.I1l_lan. , ;· ~.. ·. 6d. p~y gallon on kerosene because it was He is a free-trader, and was president~of•~ , _,. one ofalie industries which grew up under the Chamber of Commerce; he is,coming .';... '.~ free-trade. I say honestly, that in my to the front, and I, for one, am de'Il.ghted .'t"''.tl'-'1 opinion, free-trade is the sound fiscal to see men of his calibre and intellect.~.~'~.·:· policy for any country ; but a fiscal this House. He has, no doubt, to Jearn a,.. , '. policy which goes to the wealthy classes good deal, and we are willing t.o ".teacl;i,.". · and gives them 125· per cent. protection him. He is a man who will niake.,.his · .. on an industry in which they have in mark in this country, but I say .t_q: hip:i, . · .: -· • vested their capital, and takes revenue f' Beware." He is the apostle of fre~tr~de, out .. oJ. .the pockets of the men who pro with Mr. Pulsford as his lieutenant. The' ducJ'%1ie •article, is a fraud and a sham. apostle is here to-night as an out-and-outr •· .t I hold up my hon.· friend as a shocking free-trader, and I ask him as an honorab!e, example of the company which he keeps. a fair, and a reasonable man, if he thinks • · \ I~know that the hon. member would not the proposals of the Colonia,l Trea_surer \· h~~t a fly, but perhaps he has never had honest, equitable, and just~ ~1' •. .ti his conduct held up to him in this way Mr. McMILLAN : Mr. Cameron has told before-" Thou art the man who went us not to make interjections. My time before the electo~s of East Sydney and will come to answer the hon. member's told th~m that you· supported the mani questions ! , ~ festo of Sir Henry Parkes, which said Mr. DIBBS : I say that this country at • t~aJ.,,rn:ope1;ty should bear its share qf this moment is being governed by o/Highly taxation." I say this on the assumption respectable class of merchants~'known as · .~\. that the insanity which. has seized the the "Soft goods party." Th~s 1)arty, with Treasurer, in his free-trade-run-mad policy power, influence, and money at their ~ack .. which will destroy the best industries of had said, "You may tax the shopkeeper'.":'; \.· the country which have been created under who drinks his colonial beer; you may )!_ax~l free-trade, has spread to every member on the drayman who takes. his porter; you · -~.' the Government side of the House. l' may tax every man in the co!Ilmunity, but want my hon. friend, Mr. Street, to go we are the soft goods trade which gov..erns before the electors of East Sydney and the Premier and governs the countr.z.. -··.'r tell them, "I betrayed you, I have the ad Mr. McMILLAN : I defy the ho1~em vantage of 125 per cent. protection which ber to state when they said that ! ·•¥-t · my hon. friend the Treasurer generously Mr. DIBBS: I am addressing th: Chair accorded the kerosene company of which at the.present moment. My ho~: friend I am a shareholder, and I voted for a is one of that class which has p<,>\ve~· and penny a pint more on your beer." It is influence in this state, and he said : " The. no u8,$;for hon. members on the other side calicoes, velvets, silks, satins, and high- to say1" Oh." The truth must be told. class goods used by the wealthy .classes _. ·~ The Treasurer tells us very naively, "I do shall go scot free; but the necessities~ofl.i· .:..i..-.. not call this tariff a scientific one." I am life of the poorer classes must be taxed.""·~' 'lf.r sure that the people will say that it is a I can quite. imagine my. old frien~;)o~~fr. :~ ., bungling one; they will call it a fraudulent George Reid, accompamed by the" hon. one, because it is,basecl on the lines which member, Mr. O'Connor, going to the Pre- ha~e guided all tlie acti~ns of the Govern- mier, and saying, "We are galvanised ,.,,. ·1•. Second night. ;. ' ;\:. k ... --;::.· .. •~'.: '.'r ; ._·;:~¥'~ f .. { ·.i:.' '•-"r v·1~~·· ... ,. ""' . .. ~.Jr;, ~~~~11'. .. 664 Finamcial Statement:·· [ ASSEM:BLtY. J Financial Statement. into life by the Free-trade Association. The insult to the mercantile class--to my vV e represent the free~traders of . this hon. friend, l\:[r. McMill:in, who, I am country, and we request that you,.f?hall certain)' never was guilty of anything of I I' bring forward a financial scheme through· the ]find-comes from whom'l-the Colo •.' your. Treasurer which will tax only the nial Ti·easurer, who. inclorses the utter working-classes in the 9ommunity." ances of Mr. G. A Lloyd, which in effect .. Sifa.HENRY PARKES: It is simply un are-" The merchants are such great worthy of the hon. member! .rogues that you cannot trust them to be ....I' . Mr. MELVILLE: It' is perfectly true! honest in dealing with. the Crown. There .Mr. DIBBS: I am reminded of a story fore, seize the working man by the throat, which was very imperfectly -told' once in and because of the dishonesty of his ' th~s .. Iiouse ;· I got it from an original masters, take the revenue out of his source. There was .once on this station ·pocket." I hear hon.1 members say "Oh, ~ one oLher Majesty's surveying ships called . oh." Let them get up when ·I .sit clown :'.\ . . the· H~rpld. She was surveying Shark's and defend themselves. I should 'like to Bay, in .vv e·stern Australia, and on board say a few words now about my hon. and of. her was a very bouncable sailor, who learned friend, Mr. Reid-a thick-and-thin suffer,ed.:_the', result of eating too largely and blind· supporter of this Government _of a peculiar fish-the nightmare. In a -who, I am·sorry to say, is not here; but horrible dream he dreamt that his Satanic while I am waiting for some information ·~~;,.: Majesty appeared before him, and de- from.my friends I shall deal with anot)ier manded him forthwith. . phase of the question. The framers of the . Sir HENRY PARKES: The hon. member ' Customs Duties Act were met night .after • does .not look like that yet ! night, for six months, by an obstruction ''· Mr. DIBBS•:. No, but when my hon. which, to adopt the words of tlie Premier, • friend has heard'the story he will see the was offered because so great an outrage parallel which makes him the Satanic was attempted to be done to our commerce. l\i:;tjesty. This poor, unfortunate sailor Because 9f this _outrage on our commerce cried out in the pangs of his nightmare; -because of the fraud attached to the ad . " Oh, Mr. Devil, dear Mr. Devil, good valorem duties-we were 'kept here night ' Mr. Devil, don't take me, but you ma,y after night by the Opposition, in order to take Bill Smith." A11cl I can quite prevent this country from being cursed imagi.11e the calico free-traders, the soft with a demoralising fiscal policy; but what goods war!'lhousemen, the merchants of do we find now 1 That the gentlemen who Sydney, am~ my hon. friend, Mr. O'Connor, condemned us most-who prevented ·us / who has so .much backbone and spinal from passing measures, for instance, an < ' marrow, addressing the Premier ·in this income-tax, for which the country was fash:lon, " Dear Mr. Premier, don't touch yearning-I mean the Colonial Treasurer us,Jmt tax these poor devils who voted for and the Premier-have actually adopted y us:" That ir; the parallel to be drawn .these: cid 'i:ctlorem duties. With 'all their from the proposals of the Government to vice-with all the horridness which s,,ur change a system of taxation which, by the rouncls them-with all their demoralising quotation ·I have read, is fair, just, and attributes - these hon. gentlemen have ~ ·'W( · equitable,.ancl the only o~jection to which ;i,ctually retained these duties to the month can be the statement of Mr. G. A. Lloyd, .of October next. I remember the hon. anc~ indorsed by the Colonial Treasurer, that learned men~ber for East Sydney, who the merchants~:"'?-re too' clish.oncst to pay made a very strong speech, quoting a few ~·· so simple a tax. I ask my hon. friend, lines from Pope, which are so appropriate ~·- Mr. McMillan-I have taken the trouble now that 1 will read them : to, make inquiry-if there has been a Vice is a monster of so frightfuJ mien, single prosecution against any merchant As, to be h:itcd, needs but to be seen ; of Sydney for attempt to defraud -the Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, revenue since the ad valorem duties ·came 'Ve first endure, then pity, then embrace. i~1~0.force1 Tliere has never been yet one 1 charge the Government with having be seizure of goods or one case of fraudulent. come ·so familiar with the· vice which at attempt under t.he act brought before the first they hat.eel, that they have 9-g,sol~t~ly Treasurer. :VVhat is given as the reason~ embraced and adopted the· cle.@9rahsrng '•' [Mr . .pibbs. · ~ <.• .. • Financial Statement. [6 #-PRIL, 1887.] Financial Statement. 665 ad valo1·em duties to the month of October duties, our trade cannot be impaired. Ac next. If the Government were honest in cording to Mr. G. A. Lloyd : their declarations-if they thought that Every hon. member who has been cngagerl in these duties were demoralising and vicious, business knows that seven or eight years ago we what ought they to have done 1 The first did a large trade with New Zealand, but since moment Mr. Speaker took his seat in the the imposition of these duties and other restric tions almost the whole of that trade has .been chair, they ought to have sub!nitted a reso lost. They have had a most baneful influence lution that in the opinion of this House on the mercantile community, inasmuch as they the acl vcilorem ·duties were so immoral a have gi,,en rise to a system of demoralisation, systflln of tax1tticm that they should be. the extent of which it is hardly possible to esti- mate. · abolished forthwith, at the wish of the constituencies, and that leave be given to And yet this Government is going to fatten bring1 in a bill to indemnify the Govern on demoralisation until October! How soon ment for their non-collection. That would they have become familiar with vice! They have been an honest way of dealing with have got beyond the pitying stage; they the question. are engaged in the innocent occupation of l\1r. O'CONNOR : But the deficit was too em bracing the monster. Mr. G. A. Lloyd large! said : ' l\1r. DIBBS: But the Government have If hon. members had opportunities of knowing not proposed to pay it offat all. They are the extraordinary means which hM·e been prostituting the commerce of the country, adopted by some houses to evade these imposts, they would, I am sure, admit the existence of and they are not applying these duties to such duties is an evil only to be tolerated under the lawful and legitimate purpose of paying the most exceptional circumstances. -0ff the deficit. I tell the Government that Now listen! Not content with the whole· they do not care whether the duties are sale charge on the character of our mer taken off or not. chants-which is indorsed by the Colonial Mr. BURNS : Oh ! Treasurer-Mr. Lloyd goes on to say : DIBBS: vVhy not suspend the l\'Ir. There have been instances of men, honorable standing orders and pass in one night a in all other respects, stating that if they did not bill which will free our commerce from resort to the expedients unscrupulously adopted the demoralising influence of this odious by their fellow-tradesmen they must inevitably tax, and which will save our merchants be ruined, for it would be utterly impossible for them to compete in business if they paid the from pe1:j11ring themselves-from being duty honestly. · rogues and vagabonds, ~s the Treasurer has described them. Could any charge be more sneakingly made than that~ I find on inquiry that Mr. BURNS : I made no statement of there has not been a single case of at the kind! tempted fraud on the part of any importer Mr. DIBBS : But the hon. member in in Sydney since the ad valorem and specific dorsed the statement of lVfr. G. A. Lloyd duties 'vere imposed last year. That is when he used these words : the answer to the absurdity of proposing Mr. G. A. Lloyd, who moved and sncceeded to repeal taxation which is just and equit in carrying the repeal of the duties in 1873, summed up in a few words the evil results able to all classes, and of attempting to Qf his experience of them while he was a mem. throw the burden on one class. A few ber of a government. words more as to what our fiscal policy My hon. friend ought to have said "mer ~hould be. I will quote a~ an authority ·Cantile firm," instead of "government." the present ~iinister for Lands, who seems The hon. gentleman quoted Mr. G. A. Lloyd to have an idea of what free-trade is; but as follows :.:_ I say that there never has been absolute The effect' of these duties has been to hamper free-trade in 1this country, and the pro our trade, and to drive a large portion of it into posals of the present Colonial Treasurer other channels. · are.no more free-trade than anything that That does not apply now, because the we have had before. The hon. member's colonies on our north and south have tariff is less free-trade than the Jennings' larger ad val01·em duties than we have. If tariff, because of the irregularities and the they have 10, or 15, or 20 per cent. ad immorality of it-because of the bribery vctlorem du~ies, ancl we have 5 PP;r cent. which it offers to the wealthy classes of 2 y Second night . . -·-,-~..c·c..~-,.·'·""" ~*~· .-~,, .. , . . ... ' . ..., 666 Financial Statement. [.ASSEMBLY.] Financial §tatement. On another occasion the hon. member used • the community at the expense of the poor. These are more flagrant in t,!te hon. mem these words : '* r ber's proposals than they have ever be~n This~as simply crushing a colonial industry. in any fiscal s,cheme that we ?ave had ·m Hon. members opposite who had voted for the imposition of ctd valorem duties were ;ery_ in • this country befol'e. There lS ?' d~lty of consistent in supporting a duty of tins· kmcl, 6d. a gallon on kerosene oil, w h1ch 1$ 125 which would de~troy an industry which hacl per tent.' on the original c~st of the arti?le. grown up under the law, as it had existed for . The sugar duties are not rnterfered with, the last forty-three years . ;.because the hon. member dare not put an He went on further to say : excise duty on sugar. If we are to ~ave vVe ought to do our best to encourage this a free-trade policy, in God's name let it be local industry which had grown up under our "1free !• The timber duties remain -- free-trade tariff. He warned such extreme free traders as the hon. member for The Hunter that 1Mr. ELLIS : You put them on ! by insisting upon their extreme views they wo~ld drive the opinion of the House into the~oppos1te ~· 1\1~:~DIBBS: Of course we p~t th~~ channel. · on. ·I do not deny it. I am argumg I say that the action of her Majesty's from the point of view of the Treasurer. Opposition when the Jennings Government 'The hon. gentleman says that our scheme endeavoured to bring in a scheme of taxa ~is immoral and protective, yet he adopts tion which was just and equitable did more ., it. Iri"' 1884 the Minister for Lands in to advance the cause of protection in this this House '1aid down the prihciples of country than had ever been done for the free-trade ~hen I introduced the excise last twenty years. To quote the language . duty on tobacco. vVe were at that ti_me used by the hon. member for CaI}lden on . .;.short of revenue; and we were losmg another occasion the extreme views of the revenue through colonial tobacco being hon. member for The Hunter are free ·mixed with the imported leaf. Tobacco trade run mad, and if they are carried out •has been reco"nised by all nations, even they will do more to force on protection down to the sa;age tribes, as an article on than the protectionists themselves will be which revenue may be legitimately raised. able to accomplish in twenty-five years. I proposed to impose a duty of a shilling There is the matter wherein I think the per l]): upon colonial tobacco, and to l~ro hon. member errs. He ought not to dis portionately increase the duty on the im turb any industry which has grown up in ported article. l did no injustice to the the country under the free-trade tariff of luan~facturer or the grower, because I previous governments. .A principle, wJi.ich raised the. duty at the customs relatively. by-and-by I will ask the House to affirm, The hon. member for Camden opposed the is that no industry which has grown up i increase of the tobacco duties. The Colo under the free-trade tariff of the country •mial Treasurer now proposes to increase during the last twenty years shall be dis the duty on colonial tobacco by 3d. per turbed for the sake of the insane fad of lb. and if ever he gets into Committee to the Colonial Treasurer for the time being. di;cuss the resolutions in detail, I will What does the Colonial Treasurer pro araue the question out with him. But I pose to do i I believe that in the office ad: ·speaking now on the broad aspect ?f which he now occupies-and I use the ex the•;,question, as if Mr: Speaker were m pression with all respect-the_ !;ton. mem the' chair, because I will not attempt to ber is simply a dangerous lunatic, as far as detain the Committee whilst I enter fully his fad is concerned. The hon. member into th~ details of the subject. I have said : "We propose not only to abol~sh ... been endeavouring to speak on the prin I,-, the ad valorem duties, but also to abolish ciples which should guid~ the Government, every specific duty on which the inci and which were held by the members of dence of protection can be estabJ:ished.,, :~the· Government when they were in Oppo I say that if the hon. member does that sition. Here is what the hon. member he will throw hundreds of people out of for Camden said on the tobacco duties : employment. It is necessary to be more Iihave another objection to the proposal which cautious than to disturb the labour is that it will affect an industry which has been market in the way in which the hon. mem allowed to grow up under past legislation; it affects it suddenly with a charge which will have ber proposes to do i~. :'he hoD:: mem~er a crushing and disastrous effect. says in effect : " Fmding thatlmdustries ,. • [Mr .. Dibbs. °"' ..• ,-,. -...- ··~' ...... -,. . ~ ·:..... . ;. - .,, . . .: ..... Financia},1Statement. [6 -~PRIL, 188i.J Financial Statement. 66i have grown up under og!· tariff we ·will reminds me of a little poem I heard at wipe them out." He is careless as to the school forty-five years ago: destruction of our industries rna. the "' The angel of death spread his wings to the blast. . throwing out of employment of thousands · The Colonial Treasurer, like the angel of of people. Having promised to· destroy death, has spread his wings, and will blast all he can for the present, the hon. member our colonial industries. -"".>~ t goes further. He says : "We hold"-I Sir HENRY PARK ES : The"· Assyrian G do not know whether that means the whole came clown like Dibbs on the fold!, ... > of the Government, or only the Colonial Mr. DIBBS: No, the Treasurer,.came" .a Secreta~T and the Colonial Treasurer; the down on the manufacturers like a wolf on .,,. IJciily Telegraph says that they are the the fold. I am not going to parody so goo_d two who managed all the taritf business a poem on such a subject. Hon. members'I ,-"We hold that if it is found that any who are now in office cannotstancl fire w'ith- industry is benefited by incidental protec out wincing. I am told that young.soldiers tion the duties affording that benefit should on the battle shrink from the biille~ and 4fiti- be at once repealed." Not only will he give evidence of fear; but when they be- ':; 668 Financial Statement. [ ASSEl\iBLY.] Financial Statement. double the excise duty on beer in Eng including the duties on malt, 'hops, and land. That is what the people are to get sugar, but the brewer is to have the excise by coming out to the antipodes; they are duty put on him from the 1st of May, so to pay double the tax on beer which they that he will have to pay the excise duty pay at home. At the same time, hops, and the other duties as well. malt, and sugar are free from duty in the l\'Ir. BURNS : I will exphtin that by-and old ~ountry. I propose to say a few by ! words. with regttrd to the· beer in l\'.Ir. O'SULLIVAN: Another change of clusfry. There are three persons in front! terested, namely, the brewer, the publican Mr. DIBBS: vVe will have no change and the consumer. Now, what does the of front; we wi)l bring him to the bung "Treasurer say in his financial statement i hole of the beer barrel, and there we '"ill He says that .the brewers .are a wealthy hold 4im. But if a raid is to be made on class,,.and can afford to pay the tax. Now, the brewers why. not single out any man I ask any honest man in the House who has been successful-the wealthy whether it is a sound principle of taxation - squatter, for instance-who, as the result that J;>ecause a man can afford to pay a tax of his labours, may have made a fortune 7 after lie has reared up an industry by The Treasurer does not care to come upon twenty ·years' hard work, and succeeded such persons, but he comes upon those who in, making it profitable, some treasurer is are unable to protect themselves, and pro to take him by the throat and say, " You poses to take out of their pockets, in the must pay" i If the Treasurer really meant shape of a tax on beer alone, £450,000 a what he said, that because the brewers can year. 'afford to pay they should be selected to Mr. BURNS : What about the taxes pay this 4d. a gallon on beer, why does taken off in their favour i 'rl.bt the hon. member make a raid on the Mr. DIBBS: The brewer will not pay C01hmercial Bank i There is a bank which the tax; the publican cannot afford to has for twenty-five years paid a handsome pay it, because if he did pay it it would net dividend of 25 per cent., which has a reduce his profits on the sale of beer by 50 reserve of nearly a million, anu yet it is per cent. Is not that_ class taxation 1 not asked to contribute one farthing. Yet -taxation upon a class of the community, that bai1k, and all the banks, need a larger to6, who are already hounded clown by the measure of protection fro::n the Govern police, watched at every street corner, and ment than do the brewers. Everything already taxed by means of high ren.ts and which is done for the protection of the a heavy license fee 1 Are you going to we~lth" of the country is clone free 9.f cost rob a man because he is a publican 1 Are to the wealthy man and the banker. If you going to treat him as an outcast the principle is a sound one, tax the banks worse than a felon would be treated in according to their dividends.· Then go to Egypt i But if neither the brewer nor Farmer & Co., or David Jones & Co., and the publican will pay the tax it will fall im.y, "You have erected a magnificent -as all taxation through the Customs building; your profits·are supposed to be must fall--on the consumers, who, in this £4Q,OOO a year, and we are going to make a case, are the hard-working classes of the raid on you" ; because the tax proposed country, who hav_e as much right to drink to be put .upon the brewers is to be put their beer under an equitable system of on them as individuals, under the extra taxation as the constituents of the Trea ordinary idea that they will ·pay it. Of surer in the Hunter district have a course the brewers will not pay it. They right to drink wine without an excise duty. pay at present £54,000 a year on the raw Now the question of wine crops up. Is mate.rial they use in making their beer. there any efficacy in this proposal 7: Does · l\fr. Hu·rcmsoN : That is struck off it put any increased duty on the drinkers now! of champagne and claret 7 No; they are l\'Ir. DIBBS: No, it is not, and that is the wealthy classes. There is no extra where the madness of the whole thing taxation on the higher classes of wine for comes in. The odious and vicious Customs which the rich can afford to pay. But the duties of the Jennings Government are iniquity of the thing is that s01pe lunatic to be continued until the 1st of Qctober, has suggested, "Oh the brewer is doing a [ 1lfojJJibbs. .. . ." . ' .· J(.inancic[l Statement. [6 .;A.~RIL, 1887.J Financictl Statement. 669 good busin:~·ss; go for th~;brf1wer, and the Mr. DIBBS : T4e duty was put on by teetotal party, headed by'the hon. member the Parkes Government. The then Trett· for Canterbury, Mr. Hutchison, 'vill sup surer, llir. Watson, proposed the b.1crease port you. The ultra-rabid, free-trade-run tq 1 Os. a gallon. _ mad gentlemen in this House will also Mr. C. J. ROBERTS : Then, how can the give you support, and we are careless if hon. member say that the wealthy people we crush the i'ndusti·y. \Ve will open the are not taxed 1 •. door to English beer, and subsidise it to Mr. DIBBS : I am only saying that the the extent of 18s. a hogshead." Now, wealthy people are not taxed in proportion that is my hon. friend's proposal with re to their means. Does the hon. member gard to beer, and I thirik this House will know any working man in-the country who sit 'for a long time before the men on this uses champagne 1 I know thousands who· side, and those who are honest on the otl1er; use colonial beer. But the Government will submit to the perpetration. of such an are afraid of the wealthy classes .. They injustice. The same remark ~pplies to the are afraid that if they p1·opos~''io tax ._, proposaJ with regard to tobacco. Is there champagne they might not have their mea any proposal to tax the higher class of to sures carried in the Upper House.. Now, · bacco as used alone by the wealthy 1 ·we with regard to the collectioi:1 of th~ duty import high-class tobacco for the use of on spirits. In Victoria the duty on spirits". . ·gentlemen who can afford to pay for it; is l 2s. a gallon. There is a narrow stren,m (· I• but does the proposal of the Government of water called the Murray Rive1::"t'vhich in this respect agree with the prin~iple laid separates this colony, where the duty wi.11 clown by the Premier on a former ,occasion, be 14s. from the neighbouring colony, that taxation should be borne by those who where it is l 2s. I bad some little experi~"' can afford to pay 1 Who sinokes colonial ence of wine and spirits duties when I was tobacco~ The man who drinks colonial a boy, and I promise the. hon. gentle~a't:i.· beer, and the Treasurer says we must take th:it if he puts :1s many Customchouse something from this man for his tobacco, officers along the banks of the Murray as which means £50,000 a year. more taxa there are opossums on the trees he will tion, or 3d. a lb. on the manufactured not preYent smuggling. A piece of rope colonial tobacco. A few words with re or a gutta-percha tube can be put across gard to the spirit duties. I ·should like the river, and in the darkness of the night, to know who consumes the bulk of the when the Customs weasels are sleeping, spirits from which we raise £850,000 of re spirits will be drawn into New South \,Y ales. venue. The employees, the working men I sum up the proposals of my hon. friend as of this country, the constituents of my hon. unjust, unfair, inequit Financial Statement. [6 APRIL, 1887.] Financial Statement. 671 ~Jt . Northumti~rland and the fuglemen of stood even by 'the hon. member for Nor his party · applauded the passage from thumberland, that I was quoting a news- the writings of Adam Smith-and the paper report, for the accuracy of which I · more so because if the hon. and senior could not vouch. It is, perhaps, a proof ~ · member for Northumberland has not of the greatness of the mind of the hon. been misreported in the daily press, member that his reading is of a far higher when speaking in the north, whither he character than that of daily newspapers, was despatched by some association, he, because it is a striking fact that the was met by an interjection from one of stateme11t which I qq.oted was i'eported his audience asking him something about in several papers, and commented upon by Adam Smith. If the hon. member has some of them at least six months ago, and not been misreported, he told that trust until now there has been no contradiction ing and inquiring mind that he might put of it. I am glad that the contradiction · Adam Smith aside altogether, "because,'' has come ; I can only welcome it as said the hon. member, "you know that another gratifying evidence of ·the• :pro-~1 . , when he wrote that book they talk so gress of ·the hon. member's education,~': much about, he was in the pay of the There are numerous signs of this most 4• ." Cobden Club." gratifying progress in the fiscal edut-a~ii I!~ .. Mr. MELVILLE: The hon. member is of the party to which the hon. ·member . certainly misrepresenting me as to what I belongs. . .. . · said ; and I must ask the hon. member to Mr. O'SULLIVAN: South AustraJ1~, for , ' please stick to the truth. The CHAIRMAN : The hon. member is ~~~,Mr. WISE: I regard the hon. member A. out of order in imputing to an hon. mem for Queanbeyan as one of the most no- ber that he has not stuck to the truth. table examples. I know that the hon. , Mr. MELVILLE: I made no imputation; member has said on many occasions tha~ and I submit that no imputation ought to protection was needed only for a short be made against me. period ; I think that at one time he said The CHAIRMAN : As chairman of this seven years, and at another time nine or Committee, I have a right to be protected ten years. He said that it was required against insulting remarks ; and if they are only for the purpose of starting indust~ies repeated, it will become necessary that I which were plainly suitable to the).colony, should call upon the I'eacler of the House yet we heard the hon. mem her cheering to·protect me. the statement of the hon. member for The Mr. GARVAN: The hon. member rose Murrumbidgee that the Government were with all the right and privilege of an hon. doing. very wrong in removing the p1:9tec- member of this House to declare ·that the tive duties on bacon, butter, and cheese. hon. member for South Sydney was mis How can hon. members reconcile their taken. statements that protection is require(!, only The CHAIRllIAN : The hon. member had for a short period, with the statement no right to rise. In the House, an hon. which they now make, that the removal member has the privilege of making a of these duties will injure the farmers~ personal explanation at the end of an hon. Mr. ELLIS : The hon. member has only member's speech, and he is also allowed to quoted the hon. member for Queanh~y:an; intervene by the courtesy of the hon. mem he is not our authority ! """ ber who is in possession of the House. In Mr. 'WISE : If there is any, industry Committee, however, that privilege of in which is plainly suitable to the colony it tervention does not exist as a right, · be is that of the production of bacon, butter, cause every hon. member· can speak as and cheese. I think that I am right in often.as he choses. saying that the· duties on these articles Mr. GARVAN said•tha.t as the hon. and have been in existence for nineteen y03ars. learned member for South Sydney gave If that is not sufficient time to enable the :way to the hon. member for Northumber farmers to establish these natural indus- · land, the latter was entitled to explain. tries, surely it is a proof that no length" that he had been misquoted. of time will enable them to work.alone ; Mr. .\fISE : I imagine that I stated it is a confession on the part of~the,~r~ei·s with sufficient distinctness to be under- of ~his country that they are•incapfiJi'e <;if ·'Second~ niglit. ~;··.. . f ... " t' 1' • ' ... ~' D JI. ... ' I ,_ ..i-•.• ~-· ., .. · .6.7'.2 · Finaneial Statement. [.t\SSEM:BL Y.] Financial Statement ...... '•· doing what the farmers of every other some cause ~r other which 1!f! not yet "ti. t. country can do... I suppose it will be con- been mentioned, and which it~ difficult tended that if these duties are remov~d; to i1migine that the farmers of this coun- . our farmers will not be able to compete try are unable to do what the farmers of with the farmers of New ·Zealand'° and other countries do, and if it can be shown Victoria. that in consequence of that disability the· HON. MEMBERS : Hear, liear'. ! . removal of th.is duty will bring ruin to l\1r. "WISE: I have yet~to leai·n, and· I many of them, I, for one, will not be ·shall not believe it until.it.."is made clear to ready to vote for its repeal. But I do not demonstration-·that the· farmers of this believe that· such ~t thing can be shown, country are ·behind those of Victoria in· because th~re has nothing yet been saicl industry, int_elligence, or enterprise. I which indicates a,ny reason for our farmers have yet to learn· that there is ·a reason being behind the farmers of any other why the farnrnrs of the. soutlr-coast dis- country in any condition necessary to tricts can;not produce cheese quite as good; ·the successful prosecation of. agric~1ltural and quite· as cheap as the farmers of :Vice, industry.. But I do claim it as a distinct toria can. · · triumph for the free-trade party .that we CGiMr: H .. CLARKE: We have not tiie cli- ha\re got from t~e protectionists of this Jn ate of New Zealand ! · House a plain confession that no length of . ~fr. ·wrsE : Protection does not affect" time will be regarded qy them as sufficient t_he. price cif cheese in ·this mar]~...,t. It for the removal of these protectionist I. cannot affect tlie price of Victorian cheese duties-that we have got from them an ;_.i:. · 1 ., . when sold in this country. .. absolute admission, from which they·can- 0PPOSITION ME~IBERS : Oh ! not now go back, that if protective duties ~' ~ Mr. \VISE : It has to be shown that be once imposed they shall never be re our farmers are' unable to produce cheese,.. moved. And the recognition on their butter, and bacon of a quality, ·and. at· a: part of the difficulty• of removing this tax price which will enable' them to compete is one of the points of progress in our successfully ·against the farmers of Vic- fiscal education which, if they will permit toria in our own market. rim to say so, was most· gratifying. But ;~it. ELLIS: Let the hon. member go they are getting on altogether.. There is . into the tmde and he will soon find out! another point in which they show ~ cle- :J:'· . Mr.--V"\7ISE: ·what a hollow sham·does cidecf progress, :J,nd that is in their s9me- . "tt~~protectionist agitation on behalf of what tardy recognition of the beauties of the farmers prove to.. be. The advocates a property-tax. 'I had the misfortune, or of protection have told us that t11ey do rather the good fortune,. to •ha,re to fight not want the duties permanently. If - an election against a very prominent pro- · nineteen years is not long enot1gh, in tcctionist. I read the speeches of most of Hea~\')n's name· how long do they want~ the protectionist candidates during the Jato If proof ·were needed other than that election, and I think I am right in saying which' is furnished by· the history of that in almost every speech which was de every country whi·ch 11as tried protec- livered by protectionist candidates ,\·ho are tion, is not this proof .that these duties now members of this House there was a once imposed became an incubus on the very large part devoted to a denunciation. country which can never be got rid of 7 of a property-tax. · Theref9re, sir, I congratulate the Trea- Mr. ToorrEY : No ! surer-if he will permit me to do so~ 'Mr. MELVILLE: The press never reported for his courage in having tried to see the protectionists' speeches ! . whether these duties could not be removed M:r. \VISE : I except my protectionist; after they had been left on for a suffi:::ient colleague for South Sy .~74. F.ilnancial Statement, ·,~hilst in view of the introduction ofa local not attempt to Jefend himself at all.. d'?;d·nment bill, it might embarrass t)le He did, he defended himself by. refer- I ~qyernment, and put the country to end ence to two sets of figures, which, I shall J°[~s expense. For t~1ese ri;iasons lam glad be able to show, were in every respect that the p.resent budget does not contain incorrect. The hon. member referred to. any proposal for the impo~ition of a pro- two sets of figures which he did not quote, . perty-tax; but I sincerely hope that when, and which, when looked at, in no way the ne:rt budget is brought in it will be pos- · bear out his contention. · He said that sible to sweep away the re~aining itepis the deficit was caused by two things which iii the tariff; and to reso t to a property were altogether independent of extrava tax. vmg un ilr ene my mm m is gance or excessive expenditure-either by . , in respoiise to the kind invitation of railway expenditure rendered necessary in the hon. member for The Murrumbidgee, consequence of the increased number of' I will refer a little further to the remarks lines· which ·had been ·opened, or by the which the hon. member has just made. decrease in the 'land sales. The hon. According to the hon. member there was member referred to. the increased number , , only one fault which· the Stuart Govern of miles of rail way in 1886 as compared ment had, and that was the fault of being with the year 1882, but left the increased .excessively economical. Listening to the expenditure to be inferred by the Com hon. member one would think·he hacl been mittee. He wished it to go forth to turned ·out of office because he had not the country to-morrow that it was the spent enough money, and that the Stuart opening of a p.umber of new lines which Government were unpopular because they had enforced increased expenditure on the were not sufficiently extravagant. But I Stuart Government.. If that were correct will 40 the hon. member the justice to say it would no doubt relieve the Stuart Go that the economy of which he spoke was· . vernment. of a portion, but by no means a very different kind of economy froin of all, the responsibility for their extra that which is advocated by the GovP.rn vagance. Hon. members will find from ment now in power. The economy of the the · returns of the expenditure on the hon. member for The Murrumbidgee was railways for the last ten yea1·s, that a.1- not a niggardly, cheeseparing economy, though the increase of expenditure on the .. but a wise, liberal, and Dibbs-like economy, part of the Stuart Government between · \14111 '"i:hich consists, as far as I can unde.rstand 1883 and the year 188_6 was £1,300,000, . . · it, chiefly in swelling the expendit_ure ; the increase in the working expenses of ,.· and yet the hon. member took crecht to the railw>!-y.S was only £300,000. And . . . himself and the Stuart Ministry. for the that is not all you must set against this recent increase in the quarter's revenue. railway expenditure, the additional re He said it was .owing to their conduct venue which was derived from the rail during the past twelve months that the ways and deduct the increased revenue finances had been brought to such a satis from the increased·cost. I venture to say· factory condition. The hon. gentleman that not one-thirteenth of the increased misses the point of the charge against expenditure of the Stuart Government is him. It is not that he failed to get accounted for by the increased cost of the revenue, but that he spent more administration or our railways. I should than the revenue produced. The charge be glad if any one could point out to me against him is not that he was indifferent that the statement of' the hon. member to providing the ordinary means of is borne out by facts. The .hon. member governm~mt, but that he so far exceeded, dwelt in the plaintive tones which have and so unnecessarily exceeded the objects become customary whenever thP. subject is of government that he squandered more mentioned up9n the decr~ase in the revenue than he received in revenue. And he did · caused by the stopping of the land sales. that! not once or -twice, but persistently. It is made to appear that the-difficulties . That is the charge against the Stuart of the Stuart Government were caused by Ministry, that is the charge which has the cessation of the land sales; but what. never be~n touched, and against which the the country ought to look at in judging of -~~~ rqejn):Jer· ~1as hardly attempted to de the diffic.ulties of the Stuart' Government Jend himself. · I will not say that he did is not the falling-offor tl;ieincrease'in any ' [ 11fr." Wise: ••• ·1~; '. ·.:.. ';"", ',. ~·'~~~ '::,~~~:· .•.. ·.· ~;. Financial Staternent. [6 APRIL, 1887:] 'Financial Statement. . :~7~ ~ . t.,. ,. . . . ·.,;.. .•/ . ~ particular1b"ranch, but the falling-off or in- ·asked for support, I think it is a sufficient · crease in tlie1 total revenue. Looking at ground on which they should receiy.~ the total revenue we find that there was support of every. horn. member. At tliis no falling-off a,t all. There was on the late hour I do not propose to enter in.a,n.YJ contrary an a,bsolute increase, I think, detail into the criticisms which have •been amounting to a million sterling. Is it not offered upon the particular itemsofthetariff. misleading the House .and the country to I certainly give the hon. member for The make such statements a,s we have heard .Murrumbidgee credit. for his desire to say to-night 1 The hon. member for The nothing with the object of provoking class Murrumbidgee must have known when hatred. I am not one of those who ha-ve speaking so late as he did-and no doubt spoken with undue harshness of the public that was the object of the motion' for the conduct of the hon. member. I believ~ adjournment of the House in· the early that he has suffered· for the sins of others. part of the evening:._that it would be im- I believe that the incompetence and ex- possible for any one to reply and get re- travagance of the Stuart Government ported. As the Committee will not sit have been put upon his shoulders; that again until next week the hon. member's he has been too loyal to his friends to dis- .• statements will get "a week's start through- own a responsibility which he had not in- out the country before the correction can curred, and t}lat he has been allowed to be made. People in the country have no su'ffer by those who are afraid to bearAhe . ll)eans to verify statements which are made opprobrium which their acts excited. 1 The 1··' .... '· by any one speaking with· the authority hon. member for The Murrumbidgee has .. ,: · which the hon. member ought to possess. not established his contention .that· the · I say again : Is it not idle and misleading new tar{ff will press improperly,. on the "... ~: for the hon, member for' The Murrum- poor man, nor. is it :;i. contentiqn, I think, / ,•.' t bidgee to say that the difficulties have which can be esta~lishe~. ~f."tt'~~11i~'(t~~f .. .411i been caused by the falling off in the land there are several items m the hst"wh1cli· ·· 'JI revenue, when as a matter of fact the I shall gladly remove, and which if my . ; Stuart Government year after year bad a Yote will be of any avail in removing I: "·~ larger sum to deal with than had the will endeavour to remove; l;mt to say : • Parkes Government, which preceded it~ that the tariff as a whole bears imp"ro- The hon. member. for The Murrumbidgee perly on the poor man is to sp3ak with _ • . has absolutely missed the point of the absolute forge_tfulness of the ~ari~ whicf-1( . ·•. charge against him and the Stuart Go- has been abqhshed. I would agam offer · ,, vernment. 'Fhe charge. is not that they my congratulations to hon. members op- . diminished the revenue j on the contrary, posite upon their having made another .. the revenue increased. The charge is discovery of a very elementary principle in ... that they wantonly and unnecessarily in- fiscal science; the discovery, namely, that ~reased the expenditure;·· that year by customs duties do press upon the poor .man. year, although .the revenue increased, the· I remember, and I think it was on).y twelve expenditure increased at 'a far greater months ago, that all the protectionist party rate ; and if there is nothing else for from the late Sir Jam es Martin down to- which the country has reason to be but I will not mention any one; I do not grateful to thfl present Ministry, it is think any one has ever yet fathomed the for their courageous efforts to check the lowest depth of prot~ctionist ignorance growing expenditure of this country. I therefore .I will say from Sir J amfls Martin say .that not all the clap-trap cries about down to the lowest member of the protec- the poor man's beer, not all the appeals tionist party, whoever he may be. I re- which may be made to class interests or member that the protectionist party were class cupidity will.wipe out of the recollec- proclaiming only twelve months ago 'that tion of the people of this country the one anybody who asserted that customs duties great act of the Colonial Treasurer, that generally fell upon the poorman rathertlian he is the first Treasurer for many years on the rich was-I think theex. pression.was 4·. who has had the courage to reduce the ex- -an open-mouth eel fool. vVe heard it de-·~·. penditm'e of the country within proper nied in the most emphatic terms during.the . ... · and healthy. limits. If it were on that progress of the debates on '~~ffi,g,;::;i,lo"rem. ·*" ~ ground alone ~hat the present Ministry duties; we heard it during th6'iate ele~t'i.Si1 · . . , .. . .. §e~_ond,?Jight. . . ~ f :~~· ·~ ~, ';.. ,. 7·: .... ·.. ~ ;..· ~- '• J. 1"* ·~ · • . ~~ ~·: ....w.i .~ ....:. .. .676 .Financial Statement. [ASSEMBLY. J Ji?inancial Staternent. wherever a protectionist stood, and we have who vehemently de.claimed that customs read it in the newspapers that the customs duties did not falllft1pon the poor man, ~ duties do not, as free-traders assert they do, now complaining of this tariff because they · - .,,.. fall upon the poor man. I congratulate hon. say Custom:; duties do fall upon the poor members opposite on.their soi~ewhat ts.rely man ; and if we find a defence of t.he ex:. recognition of that which we free-traders travagance of the late Government offered have been asserting all along, and I hope upon grounds and with reference to figures that they will now be able to appreciate which upon being examined turn out to why it is that the free-trade party an'\ so be incorrect, I ask what importance can anxious to abolish customs duties. But be attached to the arguments by which if these twJ11ty-seven customs dutiei;; press views such as these are maintained 1 Ancl unduly on the poor man, what are we to I would only say, in conclusion, that I say of the 167 customs duties which have will give to the Treasurer a hearty and a been repealed by the new tariff i loyal support in this great attempt to free An Hox. l\hMBER : Not repealed yet! the indµstry of this colony-this fiscal 1\'fr. ·wISE : ·what are we to think of revolution, imperfect as it is, which I gladly i.~.. , •tne consistency of those hon. members who accept as an instalment, and as an instal day after day came down to this House ment only, of the better things to come, and supported, not only these twenty-seven when the good government of which we items-for they did support every one of have now a promise shall have restored them with the exception of the excise on our great country to its usual, and I hope •··.~ beer·and tobacco -- its lasting, prosperity. ;:,'\ .t';,4 Mr. LYNE : They did not support the l\'.lr. vV ALKER : I desire to say one word extra duty of 2s. on spirits! by way of personal explanation. The hon. Mr. ·wISE: They supported a duty on member who has just sat clown stated that ~ spirits. These ·are not new duties, in in all probability my object in moving the ~·· vented for the occasion to oppress the poor adjournment of the House this afternoon I man, but they are duties which were sup- was to enable the speech of the hon. mem !<-'. ported and voted for by every hon. rnem ber for The Murrumbidgee to go to the 'l!er on tire other side; and not only did country· unanswered. I desire to give they, vote for these twenty-seven duties, that statement an emphatic contradiction. ~ich are such a hardship to the poor man, I moved the adjournment because I be ~ut they also voted for about 140 duties lieved I was doing a public duty, and for · · Besides. no other reason. l\'Ir. LYNE : No ! l\'.lr. 'VISE : I gladly accept the explana l\'Ir. 'VISE : I may be wrong in my tion offered by the hon. member in the stat0ment of the·number, but as far as my spirit in which it is made, and I regret recollection serves me the repealed duties that I should have attributed to him any amount to 167. They certainly fill a very motive which from his explanation I now bulky b(>pk. I do not intend to occupy find did not influence him. the time of the Committee further. I l\'.lr. 1\'IEL VILLE: I do not think min have been already longer than I intended. isters are to be congrntulated upon having Copying-if I may be aJlowed to do so been handed O\'er for safe-keeping to the the hon. member for The Murrumbidgee. hon. member f,or South Sydney, who was I, too, may appeal to the new members charged with the defence of their conduct. of this House, and I . would ask them A more lame and miserable attempt to to judge of the value of the argument.s defend the proposals of a Government, which ·~·· ., . .• •• .-'· ' Financial Statement. [6 APRIL, 1887.] Financial Statement. 6i1. certain statement. The hon. gentleman Certainly not. The hon. gentleman who then endeavoured t&'"clefend the Colonial has just resumed his seat would oe ,f._ Secretary. He received his brief, and touched by an income-tax. This gentle- ... · . like all members of his profession, read it man, who was· born with a silver spoon in -~-· <:arefully· through and endeavoured to his mouth, was sent to the old free-trade make the most of it. He also received a country to be educated, and he comes brief from the calico-jemmies of New out here to insult a man who served his South Wales to .advo'cate their interests time to his trade, and who was ruined in this Assembly. The lion. gentleman tells by. free-trade. But tb.is gentleman who us that having carefully read the address comes out from home, and is a member of the Colonial Secretary he could not of the protected profession, can never be . find a word in it about the property-tax. ruined by Chinamen who dare to enter Mr. W1sE: I did not say so ! into competition with him, and he forgets Mr. l\iELVILLE : The hon. gentleman the fact that his education was paid for by ..- implied that the Colonial Secretary and the people of this country, who proyided his Government had then abandoned any the salaries of his father, the judge, ap.d intention of introducing a pro1'>erty-tax, the other members of his family. \V~ ·• and the Colonial Secretary came to th~ now have evidence that the statements rescue and told us that he remembered the made on the hustings by the members of €Xact words and when he used them. Now, this Government with regard to their I have in my hand the Premier's address, taxation proposals were a· deliberate de- and I will presently read it. The hon. ception to catch the votes of the people of ~, gentleman pleads that customs duties New South "\-Vales. vV e have brought •. / should be taken oft; and that the indus into power a governinent whose whole in- .-r:·_·. tries should be allowed to live without terests are on the side of the merchants of ~ them. vVhy is he i10t honest enough to Sydney, and who desire to relieve.them· tell us that the Supreme Court is willing of all taxation. No doubt the beer-tax has to remove the barriers which prevent been introduced as a sop to make up foi; the those who have more intelligence than he non-introduction of a property-tax, and.. no bas shown to-night from appearing before doubt· we shall be informed tliat it ·it, the judges. It will be many a long day, · inconsistent on the part of a total"ab-stainer . and there will be many sittings until sun to vote ag:'tinst the beer-tax; but •Il:enterecl·. , rise before the industries of t.he country this Chamber in the interests of my nati~ are strangled to suit the interests of the land, and, while I am quite prepared tg_ · -calico-jemmies of Sydney. Reverting to vote at once for the abolition of the liquor - the address of the Colonial Secretary, I traffic from beginning to end, yet while it · . ~ find in the Sydney Morning Herald of the forms one of our industries, and we are 26th January, 1887, these words: not prepared to abolish it altogether, I If resort must be had to any new form of tax shall not relieve the "calico jemmies" of ation. Sydney from taxation, 'and tear~p by the Does the hon. gentleman mean to say that roots the industries of my natfre land. an excise duty on· beer is not a new form ·In so doing I am acting consistently with -0f taxation~ Does he contend that an in my principles as a protectionist. The hon. ·creased duty on colonial tobacco is not new member for South Sydney was put up by taxation~ I am quite ready to believe that the Government to answer the hon. mem this extremely smart young gentleman just ber for The Murrumbidgee ; but he has ·from college, who has come here to teach failed in every particular. He has finished hon. gentlemen on this side of the House his speech without saying· one word in ·wisdom, is in his simplicity prepared to defence of the Government, except that ·believe all the Colonial Secretary may tell they an~ a pure and honest government.. "him. But those of us who have had several But I will point out that they have h'ardly years'. experience know that the Colonial been in office long enough to be dishonest. -Secretary will preach one political doctrine vV e saw the Colonial Treasurer take the to-night and a totally different one to hon. gentleman into a room, and coach him ·morrow. The Premier's sentence concludes carefully. VVe also saw the Prei't1ier take thus: the young gosling out, and put him on the n certainly will not be au income-tax. right track; but after all the care they have Seco1~d ?iigltt. .. -~ . . .. •':.r'•r1'.»~ .. ·~:1:. ·-:-·, 678 Financial Statem_,ent. . [A$SEMBLY.] Financial Statei~i(J:~t. ...· ., taken he has left them {i:udeferided, and this colony to th.• ~r,. people who a ·~ the Government will now have to get up shoi::t time ago· W:1fe u:q.der the' delusion an~l defend themselves. The hon. mem- that all classes of.tl!\?,community would: be ber told the electors .ii;t, ~i~ , I?u.blishe.d taxed alike by the' present Goverp..iuent; ''·· ·· address that as ·producers· we m this are awakening to the fact that '.thfll:t~iff'I> ': .. 1f. colony were a lorig way ahead of Victoria, ·. prqposed in'l'!lthis. House w~s either con- anc. l as a manu f acturmg . commum"t y we/. c9cte d Hr . some··ff .! rperc""°"* 1 ian t' s, par1 our on .a were equal to them. That is another evi- · Sunday afternoon,~in the Chamber.of deuce of the hon. gentleman's intelligence Commerce,. or. in ·some other' place where _ in this matter, at least. I would not pre- the merchants of Sydney,. finding ·that . ' sume t~~vie with the hon. gentlem~~ in they had a gov!lrnmen~ wh6m they ·can the matter of law; but I thi~k if l were squeeze. to their heart's eo:q.tent; drew up in the position of· a government on mJ a tariff containing proposals .to suit them trial, and.in danger of losing my liJe,' I selv,es. ' The illustrious major member for ... s?ould be very sorry indeed to engage the South Sydney ~ells us that it woi:I~ have:,.~·· ... ,·,.hon. and I.earned member to make a been very unwise for the Gover!l\llent t~' l!J7, ·~.J. defence. on my behalf. vVhat. is the posi- have propos~d a ·property-tax, seeing that· tion of the Opposition on the present they intend t'o introduce a Jocal ·govern- 0<;:casion 1 I do not profess to· put my: ment bill, w,hich will provide the ma- self forward .. as a leader. I am simply chinery by which, a property-tax can be. one of the rank and file, willing to work collected. The hon. member seems to as ~.J! in ~he interests of my native land;· but · sume that the Government have .a per •,,~r.• . . we have men on the protectionist side of petual lease of the Treasury benches, and the House able and willing to defend the that they are .to be allowed. to do these views we hold. But, before we have things·when it suits them to do so. ·In opened our mouths and said one word the meantime the industries of the colony with regard to these iniquitous proposals, are to be destroyed, and 'the only hon .. what have we seen .in· New South Wales~· member who speaks in advocacy of their '~e hon. member for The Murrumbidgee, destruction is a barrister-a gentleman .Yrg gentleman who is a free-trader, ancl who belo.ngs to the most highly protected whos~consistency and adhesion to free- class in New South Wales. If an ignorant ·trade no man can deny, has declared that ass like, myself were to don a wig and ·~he proposals made by this Government walk .into the Supreme Court he would ·are of such a character that he cannot soon find himself in Darlinghurst Gaol for support them, and he has declared that contempt, yet the most consummate idiot the industries which have grown up under who was ever born, if he can manage to the system of free-trade shall not be eat a suffi,cient number of dinners in Eng-. rooted up to please even the merchants of land, is entitled to appear in the court, Sydney.;,.But there was another s~ngular .and if any constituency is foolish enough thing W,ointed out by the hon. member to return him to Parliament, he is honored for The.,,.Murrumbidgee. Ho; is it that here by being called the hon. and learned this matter of oil is ·always getting into member. The hon. and I.earned member our tariff, and is left in the tariff now, for South Sydney quoted a Jist of duties while our biscuit manufacturers, our butter which he said the ·protectionist~ claimed and cheese man!lfacturers, ·and our vinegar would riot touch the working man. The manufacturers are to be ruined~ I would hon. and learned member has been misin ask, has the Sydney N:orning Herald still formed. The protectionists st~te distinctly got an interest in oil; and shall we have. · that any revenue duty touches those who any more leading articles in the Sydney '·pay it; but what ~hey ,complain of with · Jl[orning Herald pointing out the necessity regard to· the new tariff is that it touches for protecting this industry~ Is this the working man alone. Under the ad iniquitous system tp be continued by means valorem system of revenue duties customs of wire-pulling at the back of the Colonial taxation is made .as fair as it can be. .. Treas11rer· so that this industry may be kept The Minister for Lands has said that the "' floating 1 The Treasurer will. have to Government would pull up every root and ~~· answer these questions. I have every break down every branch of protection. reason...... to believe that from one end of I tell them that as far as I am concerned ,. ·'[':1!1r. Melville. .. }f;.·. 4; #· . ~·' .. ft ' "\•,' 4 ' Financial Statement. [6 APRIL, 1887.] Financial Statement. 679 tt· ;~: it •Will be a long time before those roots Mr. MELVILLE : I know that I am are pulled up. I,d~'9t believe that the . describing myself in language which the ministers are in .earpest; because I think hon. member would use if he had the that if they were the "ad valorem duties courage to express his opinions. How . ·' ::WO"i.ild'have been repealed before this time; ever, I feel sure that I shall be respected otit' faith must be kepp with 'tpe hon. mem by the men working in factories at the pre . ber for East Sydney, Mr. McMillan. The sent time, when the merchants who are try- · Government knew tlfat if they did not "ing to rob them will be scouted from power. propose to repeal those duties the hon. ·what right have the Government to con- member would have found his way to the tinue these duties after the boast of the Opposition side of the House. How many Colonial 8ecretary that he would .not only" merchants have already told the Treasurer plant his flag on every hustings, but would, that their stocks will last until October~ sweep these duties away ~ But the hon. What right has the Treasurer to e~1ter gentleman has done neither the one nor ·'·(' into a compact with the merchants to rig the other ; in fact, he is represented by a. · - :~the market i • party of ignoramuses who will support · Mr. McMILLAN : The hon. member's him in destroying these industries. I am~.~ remark shows that he knows nothing about exceedingly surprised that the hon. and it! learned member for South Sydney has Mr. MELVILLE : My remark shows taken so much trouble to congratulate us ·that the hon. member knows something on our fiscal opinions. I was quite pre- more.than he dare state. If the merchants pared, either here or elsewhere-ignorant ¥ " are such scoundrels and liars as they are as I am-to show that I have a far deeper. f\... : represented to be in connection with their knowledge of the effects of this policy,· transactions with the Customs Department, especially on industries, than this hon. what right has the Treasurer to make them gentleman learned in the law. He may remain scoundrels until October i be able to talk about the Stuart Govern- Mr. BURNS : I never said that they were ment spending more money than theJ. re scoundrels ! ceived; but, after all, he has simply ,i:e Mr. MELVILLE : The hon. member peated what he has been told, an!J ,~?t oh'e; quoted the language of the Hon. G. A. 'word can he say in answer to tlie~speech Lloyd, who, notwithstanding his frne- of the hon. member for The M urrum bid gee. • trade advocacy, was defeated at. New That speech has so taken the Ministfy.t' . castle. · aback that they do not know how to' Mr. McMILLAN: More shame! answer it. They are exceedingly pleased Mr. MELVILLE : The electors sent that the Easter holidays are at hand, and him about his business. will give them time to discover a few sub Mr. McMILLAN : They sJ:iowed their in terfuges. I should like the Minister for gratitude! Mines, when he is let loose, as I suppose he Mr. MELVILLE: No doubt the men will be some night, to show a justification who have been employed in the biscuit for the many wild statements 'O"f 'himself factory will come along and express their and of hi!;\ party against. those 'whom they gratitude to the Treasurer for turning were ousting from office. With the esti thein out into the streets to seek the cold mates I shall show that this hon. gentle charity of the Government. l'he Hon. G. man, who loves the working-classes, whose A. Lloyd said that the merchants are political life depends_ on their favours, and thieves and robbers-that they defraud who would never have been in his present the Customs Department. The Treasurer position but for their influence -- tells us that because that gentleman said Mr. ABIGAIL : They believe me too ! so, these duties ought'to be abolished, yet Mr. MELVILLE : I shall show that he proposes to continue them for seven this Government have dismissed the work months. What right has the Treasurer to ing-class in a much larger proportion than make thieves and vagabonds of any section they have dismissed the middle class-that of the community i It is bad enough to while they have sent about their business make thieves of blatant demagogues like some hundreds of unfortunate privates, myself. they have retained the corporals and ser Mr. McMILLAN : A good definition ! jeants. Second Tt.ifiht. . • '\. t; -.- '. ;- ~ ,. -~.· -' -~·;, .. .•·~~~·Y :_~~·~· '. ~ .,.. .. ·. ,·... ,_.~ eso· . -Financial Siate1~i~nt. . [ASSEMBLY. J . Financial State1~~en_t .. · . . . ; Mr. AmGA~L : .@i't~:~~\fuembeds re~ of .. tion. r On a future occasion I shall have the land. Fie on this class which was more to say on the question of free-trade never known to do anything fo1• anybody ..land. protection. I have simply made a. but themselves. Fie on this class which ~)v remarks in reply to the learned cham- the Treasurer teils us in the words of Mr. pion tffthe Government; and I trust that G. A. Lloyd are thie\·es and robbers. vVho ', before we meet again they will pick upon i:lares to say that 1\fr. G. A., Lloyd is not .:1some one more fitted than he is to defend an honorable man? · vVho dares to say ·their financial proposaJs. ·I have quoted · that his words are disputable·i Who dares from the address· of the Premier. to the to say that he is not a judge of human .€lectors of St. Leonards ; I have quoted a· nature? vVill the Treasurer dare to say ·promise on his part :which was denied; that his authority is to be in11:iugnecM : Is .. :and I can only say, in concluding a few 1\fr. G. A. Ll9yd not known to be a reput- i·ambling remarks -- able and an honest man? Have not"his 1\fr. i'N~s : . actions been pure and honest all his life·~, Mr. JY"rE;L VILLE : t think· the Minis- Who hut Mr. G. A. Lloyd can dare to im ter of Educatl.on · 111ight find some other · pugn thehonestyofthemerchantsofSydney~ occupation than invoking the allsistance of ·I am sorry that the hon. memJ:>er for East the Deity. Sydney, 1\fr. McMillan, has ·not had an 1\fr. McM1LT.AN ·: opportul!ity to hear what Mr. G:tA. Lloyd 1\fr. MELVILLE : I· shall accede to has said on the subject. According to rthe request of' the hon. member for East · that hon. gentleman, the merchants have Sydney· at t]:ie proper time, mid I. shall de- been transformed into thieyes through the . liver for his edification a sermon which he· imposition of ctd valorem duties. I am will wish bad never .been delivered. I · pleased to find that there is·a class who -hase'nci ·objection tO' accept. his invitation, are lower .than even the lowest protec- . and seeing that the class to .'"hi ch"· I be- tionist. I regret, and ,I tliink the .com~ long have not been spared by the Treasurer munity must regret,: that the voice of ·Sir or by the ]earned. rno\1thpiece of. the Go- James Martin is no longer heard amongst vernment, I shall not spare the class to us, advocating a fiscal system ";hich, ac~. -which the hon. member for East .S.Ydney cording to our free-trade friends, is advo~""T :belongs, any more than the Minister cated by none but fools and idiots. The ·. ·f'~lf.~fr. 1lfelville. -Financial State11ient. · [13 APRIL, 1887.] Bulli Collie1·y Explosion. 681 .. · .Cofonial Secretary wen.t over to Melbourne BULL!. COLLIERY EXPLOSION.. ·. it;?<.J:l~t .long ·~&o among~t the protectionist THANKS OF P ARLIAl\1EN'l'. ·• ' · (; fools and idiots, to learn from them how Mr. SALOMONS rose to move (witli · to manage our railways. The hon. mem conciwrence) : . ber for East Sydney told the Chamber of (l.) That the thanks of Parliament be given to the members of relief parties and other per Commerce that it would be needful for sons who, in many instances at the risk of their further steps to be taken in the interests . lives, used ::.11 th.eir. exertions in exploring the of freedom of commerce. Does the hon. Bulli coal-mine and recovering the dead, after member think that wewant in this count1'y the disastrous explosion on the 23rd March. nothing but a set of pedlars ~ Does he (2.) That the foregoiug resolution he trans mitted by the President to .Alfred .A.• Turner, think that England would ever have risen Esquire, police magistrate of T\'olloi1gong;. to be to her present position if the nation had rea~ by that offi?er to a P.nbli ,.lll