Lesley Riddle of Burnsville, North Carolina

For the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs. George Elliot, Middlemarch as quoted in Barry O’Connell1

Introduction Lesley “Esley” Riddle was born into an African-American family in Burnsville, NC, on June 13, 1905. His was an interesting life in an interesting time. An unlikely series of events led to this one-legged, eight-fingered black man from North Carolina becoming a dear friend and a musical partner to the Carter Family of Maces Spring, VA, the First Family of Country Music. It began on the streets of Kingsport, TN, when A.P. Carter, the family patriarch, heard Lesley playing guitar and singing songs. A.P. was under pressure to find new material after the initial Bristol, TN, Ralph Peer recording sessions. A loner and wanderer, A.P. was also eclectic in his musical choices and drawn to what he was hearing. In Lesley he found a solution to his song quest. He brought Lesley home to sit and play for Sara and Maybelle (A.P.’s wife and sister-in-law respectively). They heard urban and rural blues in the style of Blind Boy Fuller and Brownie McGee and spiritual music from the African-American churches of Appalachia. Soon after, A.P. asked Lesley to drive and take him to African-American communities all over Appalachian Tennessee, Virginia, and North Carolina to find new songs for the Carter Family band. Lesley would play the role of “Pol- Parrot”2 memorizing the tunes and words before returning to Maces Creek, where he taught them to Sara and Maybelle. The true list of songs that the Carter Family learned from Lesley will forever be in doubt, but whoever’s list one believes, the Carter Family songbook, and that of country music, are much richer for their relationship with Lesley. But his impact goes well beyond his role as Pol-Parrot. Maybelle, an extremely talented guitarist who influenced generations of country music guitarists, was herself greatly influenced by Lesley’s playing, as she told Mike Seeger: “The style I play, I learned from a colored man who used to come to our house.”3 Riddle’s trips with A.P. and his playing sessions with the family also exposed them to rural and urban blues and African-American spiritual music that would find its way into their music and country music in general.

1 “Step by Step”: Lesley Riddle Meets the Carter Family. A Biographical Essay with Notes to His Recordings, written by Barry O’Connell, Professor of History, Amherst College, 1973. Kip Lornell tells a similar story in his article based on interviews he conducted with Lesley in 1972-1973. 2 “I was his, what you’d call ‘Pol-parrot’. I was his tape recorder.” Lesley Riddle interviews with Mike Seeger, held at the Southern Folklife Library at the University of North Carolina Wilson Library as related in O’Connell, p. 10. 3 Maybelle Carter interviews with Mike Seeger and the New Lost City Ramblers, held at the Southern Folklife Library at the University of North Carolina Wilson Library.

1 Outline of the appeal The letter of rejection for a historic marker for Lesley Riddle indicated that two key issues arose. First, the committee questioned his connection to North Carolina. Second, the committee was unfamiliar with Lesley and his role influencing the Carter Family and, through them, the development of country music. Our appeal demonstrates:

• Lesley Riddle, born and buried in Burnsville, NC, lived 20 years of his life in North Carolina (Burnsville and Asheville) and, while living in Kingsport, TN, often spent time back visiting family members in Burnsville. He is a true North Carolinian. • While not credited with songs or mentioned in early histories of the Carter Family, Lesley’s impact on the Carter Family was profound. Within the last decades this oversight has been corrected in both academic and popular articles and books. In particular, primary source materials (interview tapes with Riddle and Carter family members held at the University of North Carolina Wilson Library) richly document his relationship to the Carter Family and his important role in the development of country music.

Lesley Riddle’s Connection to North Carolina No one of course denies that Lesley was born and died in North Carolina. His birth certificate is attached, and below we show his tombstone, a fine monument on a beautiful mountaintop outside Burnsville.

How might one do justice to a person’s life, to this one man’s life? Its outward signs mark nothing especially remarkable. The most stable job Lesley Riddle ever held was as a clothes presser in a dry cleaning plant owned by others. In his last years he shined shoes. He had no children…. His family loved and cherished him. He had some friends who cared deeply for him, most notably, for "history’s sake," the members of the Carter Family-A.P., Maybelle, and Sara’s and A.P.’s children Gladys, Joe, and Janette-who learned songs and instrumental techniques from him as well as perhaps teaching him some of their own. (O’Connell, p. 1)

As with many lives spent in Appalachia in the early 20th century, there is some uncertainty about exactly where Lesley lived and when he lived there.4 The table below is a reasonable timeline of his life and where he lived. We know that he was born in Burnsville in 1905. We know that he spent much of his time from ages 9 to 16 in Kingsport, TN, with grandparents after his parents split up. During those years we know that he was often back and forth between Tennessee and North Carolina. As Barry O’Connell notes, “At first, and again the pattern is typical, Riddle and others in his

4 O’Connell presents the most compelling timeline of Lesley’s life and travels. Unless otherwise noted, all references to dates and locations are taken from his work. Other reliable sources include the Mike Seeger tapes of Carter Family members and Lesley from 1963 through 1978 at the UNC-CH Wilson Library and Kip Lornell’s 1971- 72 interviews with Lesley and his subsequent published article "I Used to Go Along: Lesley Riddle Remembers Song Hunting with A.P. Carter." (Old Time Music Booklet: The Carter Family, 1973).

2 homeplace moved back and forth between Burnsville and the Tri-Cities, as well as within the three cities, as the rhythm of job opportunities and personal needs dictated.” (p. 2) Later, perhaps in 1919 or 1920 when he lost his leg in an industrial accident, he moved back to live with his mother in Burnsville and returned to school, also spending time shining shoes on the streets through the mid-1920s. The state of North Carolina sent him to NC A&T for a year in 1927. After that and until moving to Rochester, NY, in 1942, Lesley mostly lived again in Kingsport, often returning to Burnsville for visits. The uncertainty of his life timeline is reflected in his sister Rosalie remembering Lesley living in Burnsville during this period before he married Allie Ray. 5

A Timeline of Lesley Riddle’s Life 1905- 1913- 1921- 1928- 1933- 1942- 1976- Dates 1913 1921 1920 1926 1927 1932 1941 1976 1979 Age 0-8 9-15 16 17-21 22 23-27 31-35 36-71 71-75 First School & Lost leg Year at Born moved shoe- Buried in Event in NC A&T 1905 to shine Burnsville accident 1927 Kingsport stand

Burnsville, Asheville NC Kingsport Time with Carter Family Rochester, NY

Time split between main residence in Kingsport and Burnsville

Source: “Step by Step”: Lesley Riddle Meets the Carter Family. A Biographical Essay with Notes to His Recordings, prepared by Barry O’Connell, Amherst College, 1973.

From 1942 until the death of his wife Allie Ray in 1976, Lesley lived in Rochester, NY, occasionally visiting relatives in North Carolina. After her death he moved back to Asheville, where he died in 1979. The timeline we present is fragmented, and the dates and locations are certainly open to question. Still, the preponderance of evidence suggests that Lesley Riddle spent two decades in North Carolina, returning often when living elsewhere. Like many of us, he could claim several places as home – certainly Tennessee and New York along with North Carolina. But without question Lesley Riddle was a man of North Carolina, the place where he was born and died, where his family remains, and where he returned throughout his life. His historic and significant connection to our state is clear.

5 O’Connell, p. 14.

3 Lesley’s Relationship to and Impact on the Carter Family Like Lesley’s location timeline, his relationship with the Carter Family, Lesley Riddle’s singing and playing along with the accident of surely deep and lengthy, is occasionally his meeting A.P. Carter, their becoming friends, and his also cloudy. Interviews with Lesley, A.P., teaching the Carters much of the music he knew-and the Sara and Maybelle all reflect a profound Carter family’s formative place in shaping country music connection and strong if complicated because of their success on radio and records- these make possible a telling of his life as though it were other than affection between the African American ordinary, more than representative. (O’Connell, p. 6) from Burnsville, North Carolina, and the white Protestant family from Scott County, Virginia.6 Even the year A.P. and Lesley first met is open to question, some saying 1927 or 1928 and others as late as 1931. They met at John Henry Lyons’s house in Kingsport, where A.P. was visiting in his quest for new material for the family. Lesley dropped by to play music with his friend. Lesley remembered, “’I happened to come by the porch, so John Henry gave me his guitar, told me to play Mr. Carter a piece. So, along then I was playing pretty regular. So I played him a couple of pieces. He wanted me to go home with him, right then and there.’ Carter had probably been to Lyons’s house before to hear songs, of which he was an inveterate collector, but this was the first meeting for Lesley in what was to become one of the close friendships of his life.”7 After that fateful day, the relationship blossomed and the song-hunting trips began. Lesley continues his description: “I went over to Maces Spring with him and stayed about a week. We got to be good friends and for the next three or four years I continued going over to his house, going where he wanted to go. I went out about 15 times to collect songs."8 We can do no better than listen to Lesley remembering their times together, as relayed to Mike Seeger. "He was just going to get old music, old songs, what had never been sung in sixty years. He was going to get it, put a tune to it, and record it."9 According to O’Connell, “The list of songs about which there is reasonable certainty he taught them include: ‘The Cannon Ball,’ ‘Lonesome for You’ (‘I Know What It Means To Be Lonesome’), ‘If You See My Savior,’ ‘One Kind Favor,’ ‘The Storms Are on the Ocean’ (‘I’m Out On the Ocean A-Sailing’), and ‘Let the Church Roll On.’ He may also have taught them ‘I Wouldn’t Mind Dying,’ ‘On a Hill, Lone & Gray,’ and ‘On Jordan’s Stormy Banks.’"10 Richard Matteson, bluegrass musician and amateur

6 Interview tapes held at Wilson Library at UNC-CH are a treasure of record of a singular relationship. Fortunately they are now also augmented by more recent books, especially Mark Zwonitzer and Charles Hirshberg’s Will You Miss Me When I’m Gone? The Carter Family and Their Legacy in American Music (2002) especially pages 128-133 and Beth Harrington’s The Winding Stream: An Oral History of the Carter and Cash Family (2013). The depth of the relationship is shown in Janette and Joe Carter’s attendance at his funeral where they spoke (O’Connell, p. 16). 7 O’Connell, p. 5-6. 8 Ibid, 6. 9 Zwonitzer and Hirschberg, p. 129. 10 O’Connell, p. 11.

4 historian of the Carter Family, has a longer but mostly overlapping list.11 We will never know for sure the true list, but the impact on the Carter Family discography is without doubt substantial. Lesley Riddle’s impact on the Carter Family and their music goes beyond this discography. Perhaps even As Rita Forrester, A.P. and Sara’s more important than the specific songs that he taught granddaughter remembers, “The Carters the family is his bringing urban and rural blues and were influenced by all different kinds of African-American spiritual musical stylings to their music. My granddad, A.P. Carter, would overall sound. Kip Lornell of George Washington go anywhere to hunt down a song and he University notes, “He (Lesley) was privy to a world didn’t care where he went…And then of that A.P. was interested in because he knew that there course one of the big influences on him was a whole world of black American music that could was Lesley Riddle…. Lesley taught be a gold mine of material.”12 Maybelle a lot on the guitar, taught them a lot of gospel music and they were Lesley’s impact on the guitar playing technique of the heavily influenced by the black music that incomparable Maybelle Carter is another way in which they ran into song-collecting.” Lesley affected the Carter Family and the future of (Harrington, Kindle edition location 657- country music. “Maybelle Carter learned to fingerpick 659) and play slide guitar from Riddle. ‘You don’t have to give Maybelle any lessons,’ said Riddle. ‘You let her see you playing something, she’ll get it - you better believe it.’” 13 According to Charles Wolfe, “He showed Maybelle a lot about the blues, and even showed her how to play the slide guitar which she does on several numbers.” As John Atkins succinctly summarizes, “…it was Maybelle’s guitar that was to provide the anchor for the Carters’ style, and so Riddle’s influence on the family should not be dismissed as merely that of the provider of a few odd songs.”14 Summary The impact of Lesley Riddle on the Carter Family and country music makes his name and story fully worthy of a highway historic marker. Lornell’s description of the relationship between Lesley Riddle and the Carters speaks volumes:

This interaction might seem rather trivial, but nothing could be further from the truth. While the relationship between Mr. Riddle and the Carter Family (A.P. in particular) is almost certainly not unique, it is one of the few documented cases of a rural black musician from this time period interacting so closely and personally with an important country music artist. In this regard, Riddle stands as an important, albeit largely over-looked, figure in North Carolina music history---a fact that should be celebrated and acknowledged in a more public fashion. 15

11 Richard L. Matteson Jr., former president of the Piedmont Guitar Society in Winston-Salem. From https://web.archive.org/web/20130818101651/http://wwbnews.worldwidebluegrass.com/article34.html and https://web.archive.org/web/20121230224134/http://wwbnews.worldwidebluegrass.com/article32.html. 12 Harrington, Kindle edition, location 726. 13 Zwonitzer and Hirshberg, pp. 132-133. 14 “The Carter Family” in Stars of Country Music, edited by Bill C. Malone and Judith McCulloh, p. 99, 1975. 15 See attached support letter.

5 Letters of support

From: Forrester, Rita J [mailto:[email protected]]16 Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 4:43 PM To: Peterson, Sally Subject: RE: Lesley Riddle performances Sally, We would be happy to help you, but unfortunately no notation about Mr. Riddle performing (at the Carter Family Fold) exists.17 I do know that he visited before his death, but I wasn’t there when he did. Many references to the friendship and connection to Mr. Riddle have been published, and I know first-hand that there was a life-long connection between our family and Mr. Riddle. My mother and aunt attended his funeral. Our family bought him a wooden leg at one point. I have heard my mother speak about that. I’ll be glad to help in any way we can, but there is no private collection. The only person I know for sure that might have documented footage of any interview, etc., with him would have been Mike Seeger. As you know, he is now deceased. His widow lives in Lexington, VA. She might be of some help. I truly wish I could be more helpful, but I don’t have anything other than what I have heard all my life. He is truly deserving of any honor he receives, and we are supportive of any efforts to honor him. Thanks for your email. Rita Forrester Carter Music Center

TO: Chris Beacham FROM: Jeanette Henson DATE: November 8, 2014 SUBJECT: Lesley Riddle My name is Jeanette Henson, the great niece of Lesley Riddle. My parents lived in Burnsville, NC and I was born in Marion, NC in 1948 because there were no hospitals in Yancey County at that time. I lived in Burnsville until I graduated high school. I am writing this in response to a request pertaining to my knowledge of Lesley Riddle. It is my pleasure and with great pride that I am sharing my knowledge of him. I am the daughter of Violet Geneva Young Henson. She is the niece of Lesley Riddle who was my great uncle. Lesley Riddle was the brother to Selelia Young Griffith. Selelia was my grandmother and mother to Violet Young Henson, my mother. I have pleasant memories of our family gatherings which Uncle Esley and his sister, Rosalee Young Edmonds were frequently in attendance. Our family was part of a very small community and when word got out that Uncle Esley was coming to town, many from the community would gather at my

16 Granddaughter of Sara and A.P. Carter. 17 Note: O’Connell confirms this appearance (pp. 8 and 16).

6 grandmother Selelia’s house. They knew there would be good music, delicious food, and picture taking. Aunt Rosalee loved to take pictures and would go throughout the community taking pictures. The most memorable time was when we celebrated my great grandmother, Hattie Young Griffith’s birthday. She was the mother of Lesley Riddle. Her birthday was celebrated with diverse community group participation. I am including a picture of my grandmother’s birthday. She is the lady standing at the table and immediately behind her stand four of her children, (left to right) Uncle Esley, Aunt Beatrice, Grandmother Selila, and Aunt Rosalee. I have shared some of my experiences and memories with you. I am sure other members of my family could share more. We are deeply grateful that Lesley Riddle has been remembered and is being recognized for his contributions to music. If I or my family can be of further service, please do not hesitate to contact us. Jeanette Henson

7 From: Christopher Lornell [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:29 PM To: Beacham, Chris Subject: Leslie Riddle October 15, 2014 Dear Mr. Beacham: I met Lesley Riddle at his then home in Rochester, New York, in 1972, not long before he moved back to his native Burnsville, North Carolina. Based on my day spent with Mr. Riddle, I wrote an article, "I Used to Go Along: Lesley Riddle Remembers Song Hunting with A.P. Carter." Old Time Music Booklet: The Carter Family, 1973, pg. 33-34. This article speaks to Riddle's life but pays particular attention to his association with A. P. Carter and the Carter Family, which began around 1928. A. P. Carter was always searching for new material for the Carter Family. One morning he returned to nearby Kingsport, Tennessee, to revisit John Henry Lyons, an exceptional African American guitarist. Lesley Riddle dropped by to visit Lyons, which is how Riddle and Carter became acquainted. Riddle’s guitar work, gentle voice, and repertoire immediately impressed A. P. Carter, and the two periodically got together over the next several years. Maybelle Carter stated that she learned Riddle’s finger-picking style and applied it to their 1930 recording of “The Cannon Ball.” The Carter Family also learned “I Know What It Means to Be Lonesome” from Riddle. Perhaps most importantly, Lesley Riddle and A. P. Carter went out on several song-hunting trips together, an important example of the type of black and white interpersonal musical exchange that helped to inform the emerging country music industry. This interaction might seem rather trivial, but nothing could be further from the truth. While the relationship between Mr. Riddle and the Carter Family (A.P. in particular) is almost certainly not unique, it is one of the few documented cases of a rural black musician from this time period interacting so closely and personally with an important country music. In this regard, Riddle stands as an important, albeit largely over-looked, figure in North Carolina music history – a fact that should be celebrated and acknowledged in a more public fashion. Sincerely, Kip Lornell, Ph.D. Music Department George Washington University

From: Darrell Stover [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 10:46 AM To: Beacham, Chris; Peterson, Sally Subject: Riddle marker appeal letter

This is a letter of support addressing the state historic marker appeal honoring and recognizing the significant presence in North Carolina and contribution of Lesley Riddle to old string/folk music in North Carolina. As former program director with the NC Humanities Council I engaged the

8 Traditional Voices Group in the grant application process of RiddleFest. What always struck me was the depth of the narrative history and how that was enfolded into the program theme and structure each year. More importantly, it unveiled the central presence and contribution Riddle made to music in the mid-Atlantic region, his understanding of the music and the places it was played, and the interaction and impact on the Carter family. The festivals examined the influences on Riddle through scholarship and performance along with historic and cultural narrative, religious music, Piedmont blues and other primarily African American forms as represented in the region and its music. This centralization of Riddle as a musical hero has contributed to local and national understanding and celebration that deserves to be put on display through a historic marker. Finally, it is rare for the interplay of race that is so central to evolving musical creativity and performance to be made so evident and highlighted in the fashion that it has been in Burnsville, North Carolina where Riddle was born. The obviousness of it all is astounding in light of Carter family acknowledgement, Riddle family heritage in North Carolina as well as sites of his presence and practice here, and the energy and interest in his legacy that abounds in our state. All of that should be seen as key in placing a marker honoring the musical heritage of North Carolina and Lesley Riddle’s role in its development. We have done no less for African American musical giants such as John Coltrane and Thelonious Monk. Riddle’s contribution is just as important. Darrell Stover

Poet Cultural Historian Citizen of North Carolina

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