Extract from Hansard [ASSEMBLY - Wednesday, 17 April 2002] p9720b-9731a Mr Arthur Marshall; Mr Terry Waldron; Mr Alan Carpenter; Mr Peter Watson; Mr Mark McGowan

SOCCER STADIUM AT OVAL Motion MR MARSHALL (Dawesville) [5.40 pm]: I move - That this House - (a) notes that the $7 million Government-backed soccer stadium to be built at is being erected to assist the privately owned Perth Glory Club and not soccer generally; and (b) calls on the Minister for Sport and Recreation to dispel the secrecy surrounding the project by explaining in detail the plans for the project, including proposed building works, proposed tenancy and financial arrangements, and the expected benefits for all levels of soccer in Western . I move this motion reluctantly and in the knowledge that soccer is booming in . It is going from strength to strength and it deserves an international arena. Prior to the Olympic Games, the Department of Sport and Recreation tried to get as many Olympic teams as possible to train in Western Australia. Such a move would have increased tourism and would have been good for Western Australia. In addition, it promoted small inter-nation competitions for all sports. One of the events promoted was a series of games between Perth Glory and the Kuwaiti national team. The sheik in charge of sport in Kuwait was willing to sponsor the games and sent advisers to look at the grounds on which the games would be played - they were Australian Rules Football grounds. The Kuwaitis refused to risk their million-dollar players on the grounds. There is no doubt that we need an international soccer stadium. I move this motion in the knowledge that the Court Government planned to spend $10 million on a multipurpose stadium to cater for soccer and . The project was to commence in 2001; the plans, the finance and the approvals were in place. It looked good to me. The need had been recognised and a priority rating had been established. The new Government took immediate action when it came to power, and I am pleased that it did. It looked at how it could establish an international soccer facility. Did the Labor Government rush the procedure and has the cost cutting been effective? Many people have approached me to voice their concerns about soccer. Soccer officials are convinced that the $7 million allocated by the Labor Government to turn Perth Oval into an international arena looks good on paper; in fact, it looks too good. Accusations are being made about the deal. It is said that it favours only Perth Glory and not Western Australian soccer generally. Officials continue to press me for more details, so I have moved this motion. They want to know how the $7 million will be spent and how it will be split up. What happened to the $1 million that was allocated from the parking fund? When Perth City Council was split up, $1 million was set aside to develop . Where did it go? Soccer officials also want to know how much extra money the Town of Vincent has contributed, because $7 million will not be enough to upgrade Perth Oval to international standard. In the interests of fair play, I gave the Minister for Sport and Recreation a copy of these questions. The minister is informed about this issue, but it would be easy to forget some of the questions asked of him. These questions were put together by people involved in soccer and they need answers. They want to know what this money will produce for soccer. In other words, how will soccer in general benefit if the money is spent on only one arena and one professional organisation? Where are the plans and quotes? They have not seen any site designs or financial breakdowns. They also want to know why the Soccer Administration of Western Australia has not been consulted. If that is true, that will have a detrimental effect on the game. When Paul MacNamee organised the Hopman Cup he embraced Tennis West. It had very little to do with the Hopman Cup but, because it was the pre-eminent group in the sport, he brought it into the process. He included one of its officers on the consultation panel and one on the seeding committee, and he gave the organisation a box at the event. Although he did 99.9 per cent of the administration and, appropriately, took the profits, he had Tennis West officials thinking they were good. According to the information sent to me, that has not occurred with the soccer federation. My mentioning it might help the minister to realise how important it is to the game in general that the federation be consulted. Has the Western Australian Sports Federation been asked for input? It deserves that courtesy. The federation receives state funding and it deals with all affiliated sporting clubs in Western Australia. Apparently it has not been consulted on any of the arrangements for an international soccer arena at Perth Oval. These are important issues for the future of the game. Is the deal a cosy arrangement between the Town of Vincent and Perth Glory? Nick Catania, the Mayor of Vincent, is a good friend of the president of Perth Glory, Nick Tana. At one stage, they were partners in a

[1] Extract from Hansard [ASSEMBLY - Wednesday, 17 April 2002] p9720b-9731a Mr Arthur Marshall; Mr Terry Waldron; Mr Alan Carpenter; Mr Peter Watson; Mr Mark McGowan business. Soccer has had its ups and downs over a number of years. It would be good to clarify that no cosy deals have been done between the two men. What will happen if another team is brought into the competition? Apparently, the number of teams in the national competition will be increased from 12 to 14 in the near future. Three consortia in Western Australia are vying for a licence. If that happens, one of those licences could possibly operate at . It would have the same effect as the Australian Football League has with the Dockers and the Eagles. If that happens, will the other team have access to the so-called Perth Glory ground, as it has been touted? Whether the Perth Glory ground is available to other clubs has not been documented. If it is available, when will the other clubs be allowed to use it? Can divisional grand finals be played there? An overseas team might be coming to play in Perth because of the international standard of the turf. Plenty of the major teams from England and Europe could come here because of the connections the State is developing by having its good players contracted to European and English teams. It would be great for soccer if those teams started coming here in the off-season. What will happen if they do? If they are allowed to use the ground, has a lease fee been worked out? What will be the contractual arrangements? What conditions will apply to arena advertising? I remember that when we were trying to develop dual-purpose arenas, one of the questions we were faced with was how to work arena advertising when lots of money is spent on signage and suddenly the ground is used for another sport and the signage must be changed. When we were in South Africa we saw that they had automatic switches so that the signage rolled over and the next sign was set up for the next game and its sponsorship. I am not sure if that has been considered. Does Perth Glory say when it sells an advertising package that it is for Perth Glory games and all the other events at the ground? None of these problems has been identified. We have not been told whether these questions are going out into the public arena. What happens if it is decided to lease the ground? Who will look after the food and drink vendors and all the other arrangements that go with leasing the ground? Mr Hyde: Have you got an invitation for Saturday night? Mr MARSHALL: I have had an offer, but my daughter is having a baby on Saturday, so I reluctantly declined Like the member, I am an avid soccer fan. I know that the member has been consulting with the Minister for Sport and Recreation during the past 10 minutes while I have been talking. He has not shut up for the whole time, but I am pleased that he is here, awake and listening. It is one of the few times when I have seen him sitting up straight and looking alert. I congratulate the member for Perth for being here and involved in one of his important passions. Mr Hyde: I am staggered that you have not talked about East Fremantle or tennis yet. Mr MARSHALL: The member must be more versatile if he intends to stay long in this place, because members must not concentrate on one sport and one avenue but acknowledge other things that are happening. If the member listens carefully, he may learn something. Mr Hyde: I am here to learn from you. Mr MARSHALL: I thank the member. Will the Government be prepared to build another soccer venue for a new Western Australian team? Perhaps that question was asked tongue in cheek because the Eagles have as their home ground. It has some of the best facilities in Australian sport for preparing for and recovering from a match. It has been difficult for the Dockers coming in late to develop the facilities at . Thanks to limited help from Governments and major contributions from the people who believe in Fremantle and the sport that should be there, the Dockers have facilities that are nearly as good as those the Eagles have. However, it is not their home ground. If Western Australia has another soccer side, will it have to play at Perth Glory stadium? It might be a south of the river side in Fremantle. Fremantle people generally hate travelling north of the river. They do not like crossing the bridge. They do not know what to expect once they cross the river. They are very isolated. If the team is based in Fremantle, it will not want to travel to play in East Perth. I was an East Fremantle footballer, as someone just reminded me. East Fremantle footballers used to hate travelling to Bassendean and to Perth Oval. We could not find Perth Oval because there were so many one-way streets. Thank goodness the finals were played at Subiaco Oval. We got to know that as a home ground because we played so many finals. That is one of the dot points of concern. Perth Glory is a privately owned club in which $7 million has been invested. What will happen if the licence is sold? There is speculation that a Hong Kong organisation is keen to buy the licence. The directors are there to make a profit, so why should they not buy something for a song, turn it into a national league side, have it go up in value and sell it? They could then buy the next licence and start again. What will happen to the agreement for the ground? Is it transferable? All those questions are of grave concern to people involved in soccer in the community.

[2] Extract from Hansard [ASSEMBLY - Wednesday, 17 April 2002] p9720b-9731a Mr Arthur Marshall; Mr Terry Waldron; Mr Alan Carpenter; Mr Peter Watson; Mr Mark McGowan

Soccer Administration of WA is concerned about what will happen to soccer in Western Australia. At the moment, soccer in Western Australia is administered from Perry Lakes. When the administration block is demolished, there will be nowhere for Soccer Administration to go. No consultation has taken place. No-one has seen the administrators about what the probability might be. They are in a delicate situation. They are the administrators of one of the fastest growing winter sports in Western Australia, yet their headquarters will be knocked down and they have no future location. We are all aware that the Court Government set aside $10 million to develop the soccer stadium. There is no doubt that it is a priority. Perth Glory has performed sensationally in the national competition. The exposure of soccer in the media is outstanding. The Minister for Sport and Recreation is a journalist of the highest quality. He would be aware that the winter sporting pages of The West Australian, the monopoly paper of our State, were dominated by racing and football. The difference in the coverage of racing and trotting was vast; equally, the difference in the coverage of Australian Rules football and hockey was vast. Soccer did not get a look in. However, over the past five years soccer has had its own lift-out section. People are turning to the Foxtel channel to watch British league football. People are also following the lower grades of soccer. I went past the East Fremantle Tricolore ground at Preston Point Road only last week and was astounded at the number of cars parked there. I thought that Tricolore had kicked back and that I must investigate it. Soccer is here to stay. We must make sure that we give it our best. The crowds at soccer venues are running at capacity. Perth Oval had not had an attendance of 15 000 for years and years, but it is now getting 15 000 spectators consistently. We are not here to run soccer down but to clear the air for the sake of soccer generally. Doubt has been expressed about the transaction organised by this Government. In a cost-cutting exercise for getting Perth Glory a ground, it is proposed to put a Western Australian Football League club at Perth Oval, the home of football, and to shift East . WAFL football is on the decline. The Minister for Sport and Recreation shares my opinion that it is the greatest breeding ground for Australian Football League players and that we must help WAFL football. However, the proposition is to shift a club from its home ground of 100 years to the ground of its immediate derby opponents at Leederville Oval. The West Perth Falcons have gone to Joondalup and have dumped Leederville Oval. The proposition may look a good move on paper. was getting a tremendous rental income from Perth Glory, which was keeping the club viable. In a few years East Perth Football Club will be sharing Subiaco Oval. is one of the richest clubs. It gets the rake-off from the arena advertisements when the Eagles play at Subiaco Oval. The Government is therefore moving in a wealthy club. Costs are being cut in Victorian football by having two teams train on one oval. However, Western Australia did that 100 years ago with East Fremantle and South Fremantle. Those teams could not move fast enough to get their own identities on their own grounds. It appears that we are turning back the pages of history because of the lack of finances. There will be two Western Australian Football League clubs training on the same ground and being helped by this Government. At the same time, West Perth is paying exorbitant fees to the Challenge trust at Joondalup. West Perth pays $80 000 in oval fees, when all the other clubs pay $20 000, because it moved to a government- operated facility. East Perth gets the oval for next to nothing, Subiaco is being helped and West Perth is being crucified. Mr Hyde: West Perth is not ground-sharing. Mr MARSHALL: West Perth is being crucified; no-one is helping it. No-one is helping Peel Thunder Football Club. It asked for a measly $50 000 from the community sporting and recreation facilities fund to update its change rooms and got knocked back. I understand that the reason for that was to see whether the club was still in existence a year later; if it was, the Government would help it. However, a small amount of money just to show an interest in a floundering club would not have hurt the Government. The Opposition wants to know from where the $7 million and other moneys came to set up a privately owned club. This $7 million to build a soccer stadium has sent out shadows of regret to the Soccer Administration of WA and to football generally. It has caused a lot of myths and speculation. The minister has a chance tonight to quell those uncertainties and I would like to hear those points clarified. In closing, I wish Perth Glory every success on Saturday. Two years ago it muffed the national competition final, having made a superb effort to get there. At half-time it led 3-0, and all its administrators were working out the kind of champagne they would drink to celebrate an hour later. However, a win was not to be. Even when the opposition equalised, Perth Glory still had three chances to score with three match points on the kick- outs. Each time under pressure it either folded or the goalkeeper made a miraculous save. Mr Watson: That was the year before last.

[3] Extract from Hansard [ASSEMBLY - Wednesday, 17 April 2002] p9720b-9731a Mr Arthur Marshall; Mr Terry Waldron; Mr Alan Carpenter; Mr Peter Watson; Mr Mark McGowan

Mr MARSHALL: That is right, and it lost. How time flies when one is busy! I am surprised that the member for Albany noticed that, because he has made only about three speeches since he has been in this place. He should keep learning. However, Perth Glory fought back from its defeat. It has been tenacious, has shown composure and at the end of this season’s home and away games won the trophy for the leading side in the national competition. It is now in the finals. This is when it counts. It is no good in tennis leading 40-love and it is no good in a race leading 100 yards from the line; one must cross the line first to win. Every soccer fan will be right behind Perth Glory on Saturday. If it wins, it will go straight into the to be played in a fortnight. If Glory loses, it will be back in Perth in another week to a fortnight. It has another chance and I cannot see it losing two finals in a row. I therefore advise every member to buy grand final tickets for the now and I venture to say that Perth Glory will go into it odds-on favourite. We must then get right behind it to ensure that it wins. MR WALDRON (Wagin) [6.03 pm]: I will make some brief comments on one part of the motion. The member for Dawesville spoke well about the issue except for one matter with which I disagree. I just want to get in that I believe the WAFL competition is a good competition and that the standard of competition has improved. Mr Marshall interjected. Mr WALDRON: The standard of the players has improved and as a result we see more drafting and so on; however, that is beside the point. I come from a sporting background, both as a participant and an administrator, and I have been very much involved in sports development, mainly with football and cricket. I say that because I strongly support sport and improved facilities for all communities. I realise the great part that sport plays in people’s lives, in both metropolitan and country communities. Many benefits are derived from all sports, particularly team sports such as soccer, including physical, mental, social and youth benefits. I could go on and on about the benefits. Although I will always support the responsible development of sporting facilities, I would like some reassurance from the minister tonight that the financial benefits to be gained from building a soccer stadium at Perth Oval will flow back to all areas of soccer. That issue was referred to by the previous speaker, but I am talking about the state league, metropolitan and country competitions, juniors, coaching and all areas of development. With the Government’s support of the stadium, all soccer must benefit, not only the top level such as Perth Glory, which is a privately owned entity. In my previous role of managing, promoting and developing country football in WA for nine years, I was lucky enough to be involved and to see a change in football, in which the moneys and benefits flowed through the Western Australian Football Commission to all areas of football. I would like to see that flow increase in volume to all those areas of football. I believe it will, as money has been flowing, and that flow has been created by the crowds generated by the success of WA-based Australian Football League clubs. However, much of the money comes from AFL clubs based at Subiaco Oval. My concern is that the same flow and the same benefits should go to all areas of soccer from Perth Glory and the stadium to be built at Perth Oval. Perth Glory is a private entity, whereas the WA Football Commission has a charter to support all areas of football, and it very much operates to that charter. The investment in Subiaco Oval, its upgrading, and its management by the WA Football Commission will ensure that all areas of football will benefit. For instance, country WA football, in which I was involved for a time, now receives annual grants from the WA Football Commission which go to all 23 country football leagues and all 157 country football clubs; that is, the commission provides direct financial support and other benefits such as development support. Major carnivals are also supported, and this includes carnivals and special events in the country. Large amounts of money from football come very much from Subiaco Oval and the two AFL clubs that are directed to the football development trust, which is a body directed at the development of Australian Rules football in both country and metropolitan Western Australia. Moneys also go to the elite competition of the WAFL, the amateurs, the Sunday league, umpires, women’s football, super league and all of those areas. Mr Hyde: Does that come from the rent of the oval or is that the return from the Dockers and the Eagles? Mr WALDRON: It comes from the money generated through the AFL clubs by Subiaco Oval, the seating, the catering and all those rights in Subiaco Oval. That money comes back through the WA Football Commission. I will not go into the detail of how that happens, but that is basically the main cash cow for football in Western Australia. The minister will no doubt go into more detail on that matter. I am sure that would be the intention of Perth Glory, because it is a private entity. However, things can change. I would like to hear if provisions are in place to guarantee that that will happen to a reasonable extent for the whole of soccer. I am sure that the intentions of Perth Glory and its owners are sincere. I know Geoff Dennis of Perth Glory was involved in the development of football and basketball at the same time as I was. I know that he

[4] Extract from Hansard [ASSEMBLY - Wednesday, 17 April 2002] p9720b-9731a Mr Arthur Marshall; Mr Terry Waldron; Mr Alan Carpenter; Mr Peter Watson; Mr Mark McGowan has a great understanding of football and I am sure that he and the other owners of the club are aware of its development responsibilities. However, situations can change. I would like the minister to touch on that area. Like the previous speaker, I acknowledge that Perth Glory has been an outstanding success in Western Australia. Many people who were not involved in soccer now follow the sport or take a keen interest in it because of its success. The club has already delivered benefits to soccer in this State. The club provides a helluva lot of joy to many soccer enthusiasts. Like the member for Dawesville, I wish Perth Glory every success on Saturday night; hopefully it will make the grand final. Like everyone else, I would like to see the team win because we all support our state teams. Although it is sad to see East Perth move from Perth Oval, it is not the end of the world. I always look on the positive side. I was lucky enough to play at Perth Oval. I have a few good memories and some bad ones. A good result from the move is that Leederville Oval, which is a great football venue, will again be used for football. It will not be the home ground of the old Cardies, but it is good that Leederville Oval has been retained for football. Whether or not the Subiaco Football Club ends up at Leederville Oval, it should be utilised for other things including competitions or assisting the football development trust in its operation in the future, if that is possible. I hope that further developments are made to Leederville Oval to ensure that it becomes the centre of football excellence. MR CARPENTER (Willagee - Minister for Sport and Recreation) [6.11 pm]: I thank the members for Dawesville and Wagin for their contributions. I do not support the motion and I strongly disapprove of the wording of it. However, as the member for Dawesville explained, it allows us to discuss some of the issues related to the development of the Perth soccer stadium and other issues associated with the development of soccer in Western Australia. I will refer to the wording of the motion, which states that the $7 million government-backed soccer stadium to be built at Perth Oval is being erected to assist the privately owned Perth Glory and not soccer generally. That is untrue, and I will explain why. It does not go to the issue raised by the member for Wagin. The motion also calls upon me to dispel the secrecy surrounding the project. If ever there was an open process, this is it. It has been a long process to get various parties to come together to build a rectangular sporting stadium in Perth. It never was intended that the stadium would be used exclusively for Perth Glory; I put on record that it will not. The stadium will meet the requirements of soccer, rugby union, , lacrosse and whatever other sports might be interested in using a stadium surface of this nature. Western Australia has had no suitable sporting facility for a national soccer team or a team in a national rugby competition, either union or league. We saw the difficulties associated with the Western Reds playing in the competition at the WACA ground a few years ago. Ultimately, the team moved to another venue. The previous Government and this Government recognised the need to provide a facility in Western Australia that catered for sports that had built up significant followings. In this case we are talking about soccer. Perth Glory is an interesting phenomenon. Its management structure and coaching personnel have been controversial. However, its on-field performance has been very good. The most interesting aspect of the Perth Glory phenomenon has been the amazing public support for the team. There has been nothing like it in soccer in Australia. There were a couple of years when a soccer team in and the Strikers attracted big crowds. However, no other team in Australia has done that for the same length of time as Perth Glory. There is nothing like it in Australian club soccer. It is a unique phenomenon. In some ways it is hard to explain. However, most people believe that because Perth Glory was established in Western Australia, it has escaped the rivalries between community groups of different ethnic backgrounds that bedevil soccer in other States. Nick Tana, who is the driving force behind Perth Glory and who owns 75 per cent of the club, is an interesting fellow. He attracts a lot of comment, much of which seems to be adverse. The member for Dawesville reflected on Nick Tana in a negative way. Mr McGowan: Did you know that he was a Vietnam veteran? Mr CARPENTER: I did not know that. We all know that he is a very successful businessman. Whatever opinion people have of him and whatever motivations they might ascribe to him, there is no getting away from the fact that he has established an amazingly successful soccer team. He has done it when no-one else in Australia has been able to do that. The member for Dawesville raised potential issues about the relationship between Nick Tana, the chairman and major owner of Perth Glory, and Nick Catania, the Mayor of the Town of Vincent. In the past, the two men may have had a business relationship. That tends to be the case with a lot of people in Western Australia. I have associated with many other people, as has the member for Dawesville. There has been no indication to me at any level that there has been anything improper in the relationship between Nick Catania, who is accountable to the town of which he is the mayor, and Mr Tana in the development of the soccer

[5] Extract from Hansard [ASSEMBLY - Wednesday, 17 April 2002] p9720b-9731a Mr Arthur Marshall; Mr Terry Waldron; Mr Alan Carpenter; Mr Peter Watson; Mr Mark McGowan stadium. All members of this House, and I, would be horrified if there was any truth to the innuendo or assertions raised half an hour ago by the member for Dawesville. I believe that there is nothing to it other than a perfectly straightforward business arrangement. From my association with both men, I think they have the best interests of soccer in mind. Mr Tana also has his own business interests in mind. I have met him and have been to a soccer match with him. He is a very enthusiastic supporter of soccer - or football as he calls it. I share his belief that it is the best game in the world; it is the world game. He has provided a benefit to Western Australia that no other person has been able to provide; that is, the creation of the phenomenon of Perth Glory. No other person in any other city has been able to do that. We should dip our lid to him. Mr Marshall interjected. Mr CARPENTER: The member implied that something might have been improper. Mr Marshall: No, I didn’t. Mr CARPENTER: Yes, the member did. I hope that Perth Glory continues to succeed. The previous State Government undertook an ill-fated venture to try to establish a soccer stadium at the Wellington Street market site. I did not ever believe that it would fly. The member for Rockingham might comment more on that issue. I did not think it was a serious possibility. As it turned out, the project collapsed. The new Government was faced with a very high level of expectation among the soccer community that a new stadium would be built. The 15 000 ordinary punters who watch Perth Glory each week had high expectations that the next Government, whether it be the Court Government or the new Gallop Government, would assist in the development of a new stadium. They had every right to expect that because soccer had matured to the point at which there was a genuine need for that type of facility. The option being pursued by the previous Government fell over. We had to do our best to create another possibility. Mr Tana was hell-bent on establishing a stadium at Leederville; that was a very sound project, but it did not meet the support from the local community. If we had gone down that line, we would have got nowhere and run into massive resistance. The Town of Vincent has a very good tradition of excellent leadership, first with the late Jack Marks, then with the current member for Perth, who was an outstanding mayor, and now with Nick Catania. It saw the possibility to address a few requirements in a combined approach with both Perth Oval and Leederville Oval. The final proposition that was developed - there was some controversy about the proposition as it developed - is a very good one. To be quite honest, I have never heard anybody criticise it. I have heard a lot of people ask who will get the money and who will get the benefit. The idea that Perth Glory will be positioned at a new, purpose-built, rectangular soccer stadium at Perth Oval and that the East Perth and Subiaco Football Clubs will become permanent cotenants at Leederville Oval has been embraced by everyone. Interestingly, even the East Perth Football Club, with 100 years of great, deep-vein tradition at Perth Oval - not just itty-bitty tradition - voted overwhelmingly to move to Leederville Oval. Even that club embraced the concept that was being proposed. It voted 117-6 to leave Perth Oval, where, incidentally, it has not played a home game in more than three years, and move to Leederville Oval, where it has been playing its home games for three years. Mr Hyde: And won two premierships. Mr CARPENTER: Yes; it won two premierships. I love the East Perth Football Club. I am glad it made that decision, because it consolidates its future. Mr House: It wants only true believers down there, as are the member for Perth and I. Mr CARPENTER: I am a Subiaco supporter. A bold concept and lateral thinking got all these bits of the jigsaw together, and it solved a few problems. I congratulate the Town of Vincent and the officers of the Department of Sport and Recreation for their good work in bringing this together. I also congratulate Perth Glory’s Mr Tana for saying that although he preferred to go to Leederville Oval, he realised that it was not an option and he could get what he wanted at Perth Oval, so he was happy to go there. The member for Dawesville said that a large number of soccer officials have approached him with concerns. I am the minister. Since that decision was announced, not one person from soccer in Western Australia has said to me - I am happy to hear from them - that they do not like it or that they think there is something wrong with it and it stinks. The day we announced the project at Perth Oval - the member for Perth was there - representatives from most of the prospective sports to use the stadium were there, including representatives from the Soccer Administration of WA and the Junior Soccer Association. They were bubbling with excitement and enthusiasm to think that, after a number of years of promises and failed schemes, something had come together and a State

[6] Extract from Hansard [ASSEMBLY - Wednesday, 17 April 2002] p9720b-9731a Mr Arthur Marshall; Mr Terry Waldron; Mr Alan Carpenter; Mr Peter Watson; Mr Mark McGowan

Government had facilitated the development of a purpose-built stadium for soccer. Not only has no-one come to me to complain, but also those I have met are incredibly enthusiastic. Mr Marshall: They are not my dot points; they have come to me so that I can ask you. Maybe they can’t approach you. Mr CARPENTER: I am not a frightening person. People can come to me and raise their concerns. I am responding to the member’s comments. No-one has come to me to complain. A lot of people have said, “Well done”, “Brilliant”, “Good on you” and “Thank God for Geoff Gallop, because he loves soccer and he’s made it happen.” Of course, we all know that it would not have happened without the greatest Premier this State has ever seen - the great helmsman. I will also address some of the other issues of which the member for Dawesville has provided me with some fore-notice. What will the money produce for soccer? It will produce a state-of-the-art stadium capable of holding about 15 000 people. The western side of the oval, which is the current grandstand, will be done up and a brand new stand will be built on the eastern side; the banks will be at either end. The stadium will give soccer a home in Western Australia and will elevate it to the status that it deserves. It is a major sport. It is the world game. The member mentioned that he visited Kuwait and South Africa, and it is good that he has travelled so much in pursuit of some understanding of what might be good for Perth soccer. Coincidentally, I was in Dubai a week or so ago on Department of Education business, but I took the opportunity to meet the managing director of the Emirates airline, which is starting direct flights to Western Australia. He is very interested that soccer is booming in Western Australia. He told me that he understood we had a very successful soccer side that was by far the best side in the national competition. He knew about Perth Glory and he wanted to sponsor it. The fame of Perth Glory and its achievements are spreading far and wide, although it might not have reached Kuwait. Mr House: Isn’t the previous coach coaching in that part of the world now? Mr CARPENTER: Bernd Stange lasted only six weeks in Oman. There was a lot of heat on Nick Tana about how he handled Bernd Stange. Nobody is singing his praises now that Mich D’Avray has led Perth Glory almost undefeated through the season. Mich D’Avray is doing a lot better than Bernd Stange. Maybe he has better cattle. Maybe it was not such a bad decision, although Bernd Stange did a helluva lot of good for soccer in Western Australia while he was here. Where are the plans? The conceptual plans have been available for everyone to see. The fine detail of the plans is still to come, but we have seen the plans for a 14 000 or 15 000-seat stadium, which is as big as Perth Glory needs. It does not want a 25 000-seat stadium and have it only half full, which is what happens at Subiaco Oval. I do not want to reflect too negatively on the decisions of the previous Government, but it committed $30 million to the development of Subiaco Oval. In the process, it drove Western Australian football almost to bankruptcy. That was a very bad decision. It committed football to all sorts of financial payments that it is struggling to meet. Mr Trenorden: Are you talking about Subiaco? Mr CARPENTER: Yes. Mr Trenorden: What would you have done? Mr CARPENTER: I would not have done a lot; it looked all right to me. I used to enjoy going to Subiaco Oval, and so did the other 50 000 people who could fit in. However, now it can fit only 38 000 people. Perth Oval will take about 15 000 people, which is a good size; that is about what it needs. The member for Dawesville mentioned attracting international sides and so on to Western Australia. If and when those sides come, I expect those games to be played at Subiaco Oval, because they would require more than 15 000 seats, especially international games. We are seeing that with the rugby union tests, which are attended by 40 000 people. The Government has been wise not to overextend itself. Members will recall the fate of the South Australian Government. Two ministers lost their positions because they set off to spend about $8 million dollars on a soccer stadium - we are spending $6.8 million - and then thought that they should make it bigger and spent $40 million. No-one went to the soccer and it had a huge white elephant on its hands, and the two ministers were sacked. I do not want to be in that position. Why has the soccer federation not been consulted? It has been consulted; it was there at the launch. It helped Geoff Gallop get on television, while he slammed the ball past the hapless custodian. The Western Australian Sports Federation has had general input into the development of the state sporting facilities plan, of which this stadium is a part, but not specifically into the development of the stadium. I meet with representatives of the

[7] Extract from Hansard [ASSEMBLY - Wednesday, 17 April 2002] p9720b-9731a Mr Arthur Marshall; Mr Terry Waldron; Mr Alan Carpenter; Mr Peter Watson; Mr Mark McGowan sports federation regularly and they are very happy that the Government now has a comprehensive plan for sporting facility development in Western Australia, and we are going ahead with it on a number of fronts. The member asked whether it would be a closed-shop deal? No, it will not be. We have made it perfectly clear from day one that this will not be an exclusive arrangement and that it will be available for other people. Should rugby union get the international super-12s or super-14s competition, it would be a perfect size. Rugby union games might be played at Subiaco Oval, but I suspect that 15 000 people would attend those games. Rugby league also is expressing an interest if it gets a side back in the national competition. The Government would not allow the stadium to be exclusive. It will not be “Perth Glory Stadium”; it will be a stadium that Perth Glory will use, just like the , Fremantle Dockers and rugby teams use Subiaco Oval. I would be surprised if another Western Australian team were to be admitted to the competition next year. My biggest fear about soccer and about committing to the stadium had nothing to do with Perth Glory and its viability - it was about the viability of the national competition. When Perth Glory plays away, it is sometimes a battle to get 2 000 people at the games. The phenomenal success of soccer in Western Australia has not been replicated in a lot of other locations. In fact, a lot of those teams are struggling. Various teams have fallen by the wayside over the past few years and have dropped out of the competition. Last year or the year before, Soccer Australia tried to get rid of two teams - and Brisbane - because they were not viable. It was trying to reduce the size of the competition, not increase it. I would be surprised if the competition were expanded and if Soccer Australia were to kill the goose that is laying the golden egg by introducing another side in Western Australia, which would fracture the support base here. Soccer Australia is smart enough to understand that a big part of the success of Perth Glory is built around the fact that Perth is a one team town at the moment. I will project forward to a time when another side is admitted to the competition. It should, of course, be able to use the new soccer stadium. However, that would depend on the arrangements the new team wanted to make. It would be struggling to use the stadium for free. If the new team were a Fremantle-based side, it might want to play in Fremantle. I discussed with Roger Lefort the possibility of a Fremantle-oriented side and it wanting to play in the Fremantle area. The City of Cockburn was interested in developing a soccer stadium at one stage. The ground will be available to other sides. It is a bit early to be talking about negotiation of the lease fee because we are at the conceptual stage of the project. The Government has committed funds, as has the Town of Vincent and so on. The fine detail of the lease will be negotiated later, but it will not include exclusivity. It will be a commercial arrangement and both sides would obviously want to be happy with it. The State Government will have an active interest in the development of the lease to make sure that other users are not shut out. That has been made perfectly clear in all the discussions with Perth Glory and the Town of Vincent. The Premier made that abundantly clear on the day the project was announced. The Government would not be prepared to build another soccer venue for a new Western Australian team. I cannot imagine that in the next 50 years a city the size of Perth, with a soccer community of the size that it has, would warrant the development of a second soccer stadium with taxpayers’ money. The member for Pilbara knows that I love Australian Rules, but I have probably told him before that I think soccer is a much better game. It is a world game; it will always attract people from around the world. Those people have an incredible passion for the game. I have been fortunate to attend Premier League soccer games in England and Italy. When the game is played at the highest level and by the greatest players in the world, it is amazing to see the high quality skills of those players. It kills Australian Rules. I prefer to go to the football, because that is where I was brought up. People like Maradona and Platini, who played in Italy, were world champion athletes. They are the greatest athletes on the planet and they play the most popular game. It will always have a very strong - Mr House: Did you say Madonna or Maradona? Mr CARPENTER: She is probably quite good at some of the sports I am interested in as well. The member for Dawesville asked a good question: what would happen if the privately-owned Perth Glory licence were sold? He also asked whether the ground agreement was transferable. Let us assume that someone buys the Glory at some stage. The new owner will negotiate with the owners of the ground for the use of the ground. I expect that if the club were sold mid-season, the lease or contractual arrangements would continue. It would be up to the new owner to renegotiate those terms, just like the Government has renegotiations going on at the moment. The member for Dawesville mentioned the Joondalup Falcons. That team is trying to renegotiate its ground arrangements because it thinks it is paying too much. Mr Trenorden: It is paying too much, isn’t it?

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Mr CARPENTER: If all the different cost factors were weighed up, the Joondalup Falcons would be found to be not a lot worse off or no worse off than a lot of other clubs. Mr Trenorden: It is paying 10 grand too much. Mr CARPENTER: The member for Dawesville said that it was paying $80 000. I think it was negotiated down last season to $65 000 and it is looking for it to come down to $45 000. If the difference between a Western Australian Football League club surviving and failing is $10 000 or $20 000, that club has big problems. Mr Trenorden: They all have. Mr CARPENTER: Everybody has to get out in the market. I have given my comments on the reflection made about the relationship between the Mayor of the Town of Vincent and Mr Tana. I have absolutely no evidence to suggest that it is anything other than a perfectly proper relationship. The profile of soccer that has developed was mentioned. This is the great benefit that has befallen Western Australia. There is now a successful sporting side in Western Australia with which young kids aspire to play. We have a future Glory side playing in the state league. It is brilliant. Young players from Western Australia are going off to play in Europe. It has created a vehicle for young Western Australians who have a passion for playing soccer at the highest level, which they could not do before in Western Australia. Members should cast their minds back 10 years to the level of soccer that existed in Western Australia - it was at club level. It was quite a good club competition, but all of a sudden we now have an amazingly successful vehicle for young talent. That spreads through the sport. The member for Albany might reflect on some of the benefits that Glory confers on country areas. The Glory is aware of its responsibilities. I am the Minister for Education. Perth Glory is providing incentives for kids to learn to read and write. It has literacy and numeracy programs in our schools. Perth Glory does not have to do that, but it is doing that because it wants to be a good community and corporate citizen. Perth Glory is doing excellent things. Mr Hyde: Another issue was raised - the $1 million Leederville Oval fund that the member could not find. Mr CARPENTER: The former Mayor of the Town of Vincent would know all about that. The money is still there. The member for Dawesville confused Perth Oval, which is soon to be rectangular, with Leederville Oval. The $1 million parking fund for the development of Leederville Oval is actually now $1.3 million, because we are such a generous Government. It is still there, and will be used, for the development of Leederville Oval. I appreciate that the member wanted some clarification on this issue; however, I totally reject the tenor of the motion. There is no substance to the motion. Mr House: If soccer were to be played in the winter - there has been debate about that - would you see the need for this development or do you think the WACA ground could be used instead. Mr CARPENTER: No, I do not think that the WACA ground could be used. It is not a suitable venue, although Mr Tana has spoken at times about using it. A purpose-built and designed rectangular stadium is required. It would allow people to be close to the action. The eastern stand at Perth Oval will be built at the C-60 level - the very steep level of the Olympic stadium. The crowd will almost sit over the action, a bit like the Lillee-Marsh Stand. It brings the game alive for spectators, rather than for them to be 100 metres from the action. One of the cleverest things Soccer Australia did was to change the national league to a summer competition, because it is not then in competition with the Australian Football League or the rugby codes and so on. That will probably be maintained, although it creates problems for Australian international players. Perth Glory has been a wonderful development for sport, and obviously for soccer, in Western Australia. The Government has done what it said it would do when the member for Rockingham wrote the policy. The Government said it would support the development of a rectangular stadium for soccer, rugby and other sports and that has been done in what I consider to be record time, bearing in mind that there was no record to break. It has been done with a minimum of controversy and fuss and a maximum amount of support from all parties to the action, including, most importantly, the general public, who had a right to expect that a stadium would be developed. We have done it. I hope Perth Glory wins the National Soccer League final this year. It deserves to. I wish it every success. MR WATSON (Albany) [6.39 pm]: It is always an honour to speak on a motion moved by the member for Dawesville. He is obviously impressed by my speeches, because he has counted how many I have made so far. Therefore, he obviously listens to them with interest.

[9] Extract from Hansard [ASSEMBLY - Wednesday, 17 April 2002] p9720b-9731a Mr Arthur Marshall; Mr Terry Waldron; Mr Alan Carpenter; Mr Peter Watson; Mr Mark McGowan

One of the questions asked was, how will a new stadium benefit soccer? If members come down to Albany on a Sunday morning, they will see a thousand young children playing soccer. Probably 300 of them are wearing Perth Glory shirts. They do not wear any other shirts, such as those worn by East Fremantle Tricolore or any of the local sides in Perth. The local Perth sides do not come down to the region, but Perth Glory does. As the minister said, Perth Glory visits the schools, and helps with reading and things like that. Soccer is the sleeping giant in Australian sport. If the Australian soccer team had not made those few blunders in its games and had reached the World Cup final, football in Australia - that is, the Australian Football League - would have got a severe jolt. Eventually, soccer will take over. The Australian soccer team will get its act together and get to the World Cup final. A large amount of money is spent on football, and the greedy Victorian clubs are trying to keep it all over there. However, soccer is the sleeping giant. Some people say that the new stadium will hold only 15 000 people. However, if the conditions are good, more people will be encouraged to attend the games. About 12 000 or 13 000 people used to attend the games. At the moment, about 10 000 or 11 000 people attend. Maybe the conditions at the moment are not right. This new stadium will encourage people to attend the games. If a new soccer club is established in Fremantle, as the member for Dawesville said, I cannot see why people from Fremantle would not go to the new stadium, just as they go to Subiaco Oval. It will be a joint arrangement, and costs will be shared. The revenue will go back into junior soccer. Mr Hyde: Three train stations are close by. Mr WATSON: Good point, member for Perth. I will think about that. I will correct the member for Dawesville. He said that Perth Glory need only win on Saturday night. However, I think it is the best of two games. Perth Glory must go across to the eastern States to play the second game. The new stadium will also benefit other sports, such as rugby and lacrosse. It will be of great benefit to the whole community. Some sports are struggling. The big international Rugby games are played at Subiaco Oval, and 40 000 people attend. However, when interstate games are played, only 10 000 or 15 000 people attend. This stadium will provide an ideal venue at which to play sports like lacrosse, which is an international sport, Rugby Union and Rugby League. I disagree with this motion. The new soccer stadium will be of great benefit to Perth, to soccer and to all other sports that will use it. MR McGOWAN (Rockingham - Parliamentary Secretary) [6.43 pm]: I speak on this motion because it is rather unusual, during private members’ business, for a motion to be moved that attacks the Government over steps to construct a soccer stadium that will serve the interests of the soccer-loving public of Western Australia. The member for Dawesville moved this motion because he feels that something underhand is going on - some ill deeds are involved - among this Government, the game of soccer, Perth Glory and the soccer public of Western Australia. I find it unusual that he should move this motion in the current context, with the success of Perth Glory and the growth of the game. In the five years before it left office, the last Government made a range of promises about providing a soccer facility - a dedicated soccer-rugby stadium - for the public of Perth. For five long years, it consistently and repeatedly promised that it would provide a dedicated soccer-rugby stadium for the soccer-loving public of Western Australia. I know that the soccer-loving public in Western Australia is extensive. I have attended many Perth Glory games at Perth Oval. In fact, from my electorate of Rockingham, bus loads of people go to the soccer, principally to the shed. These people love the game. Many of them formerly lived in the United Kingdom. However, the game of soccer has a much broader captive audience than that, because it is a world sport. My point is that it is unusual for the Government to be attacked over this. I know the Minister for Sport and Recreation quite well. He is as honest as the day is long, and he is more concerned about probity and doing the right thing than any member of Parliament I have ever met. To accuse him in a roundabout way of some ill deeds regarding the stadium is incredible and breathtaking. The member for Dawesville also knows the Minister for Sport and Recreation quite well. For the member for Dawesville to allege these sorts of things, without any evidence, justification or backing, is pretty much a waste of this hour and a half of private members’ business time. The point I want to make concerns the history of this stadium. I will give members a potted history. The member for Dawesville was the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Sport and Recreation during the period of the last Government, so he will know that these things are true. In the campaign that led up to the election on 14 December 1996, the then Premier Richard Court and the then Minister for Sport and Recreation Hon Norman Moore put out a press release in which they committed that Government to providing a dedicated

[10] Extract from Hansard [ASSEMBLY - Wednesday, 17 April 2002] p9720b-9731a Mr Arthur Marshall; Mr Terry Waldron; Mr Alan Carpenter; Mr Peter Watson; Mr Mark McGowan rugby-soccer stadium for the sports-loving public of Western Australia. In that press release, they indicated that that soccer-rugby stadium would be put in place during the period of the four-year forward estimates. That period ended on 14 December 2000. Therefore, that was a broken promise. The Court Government won that election with a record majority. It then put in place a plan under which it would use the development of a convention centre as a mechanism to build a soccer-rugby stadium. I had considerable involvement in examining that issue. When the original convention centre proposal was announced in 1998, there was to be a $100 million grant to whomever could produce a plan for a convention centre for Perth. That $100 million grant would, over a period, go towards construction costs and so on. We all know the history of the convention centre. In early 1999, when there had been no movement on the soccer stadium, the Premier made a new announcement. He indicated that $10 million, in addition to the $100 million, would be provided to the successful tenderer for the convention centre. Therefore, in total, it would be a $110 million grant. In fact, in 1998 or 1999, Perth Glory made the finals, the first of which was held at the WACA ground. The Premier was there that night. He went onto the field and flipped the coin. He was interviewed on television by Basil Zempilas or Dennis Cometti, and he said that the people of Perth could be completely confident that within the next two years a stadium, dedicated to the great sport of soccer, would be provided for the people of Western Australia. Guess what! It is four years on and there is still no soccer stadium. The coalition Government indicated that there would be another $10 million for the successful tenderer. The convention centre process continued until the announcement of the successful tenderer in 2000. The successful tenderer was Multiplex; a great construction company that is based in Perth and does great deeds around the world. It has a range of contracts in Dubai. It has had contracts in London with Wembley Stadium, in with the Olympic Games, in Britain with the Commonwealth Games and it is building half of the Arab world’s buildings. Multiplex also does an enormous amount of construction work in Perth. It won the convention centre project and became the preferred tenderer. As part of that project, throughout 2000 it worked towards signing off on the agreement with the Government for the transfer of $110 million. Over that period there were intensive negotiations. The election was approaching and the former Government wanted to get this agreement in place prior to the election. It thought the deal would be an electoral winner and that a convention centre - an enormous building on the foreshore - would come of it and would win the Government some votes. Multiplex wanted to get the deal together and sign up the contract. In about October 2000, the final agreement was signed between Multiplex and the Government - the Minister for Sport and Recreation Hon Norman Moore and Premier Richard Court. As part of the convention centre deal, there was an arrangement by which land alongside the Perth exhibition centre would be given to Multiplex for it to build a dedicated soccer-rugby stadium. That land would be given over for a period of 35 years. However, when the small print in the contract was read, there was an arrangement that if the successful tenderer, Multiplex, could reveal that the stadium was not commercially viable - that is my memory of the term - there was no requirement to build it. This was despite the fact that in the lead-up to the 1996 election, during the process of the convention centre contract negotiations, and during the Perth Glory finals matches, the Premier had said that there would be a dedicated soccer-rugby stadium in Western Australia; he would see to it that the people of Perth had one. Mr Johnson: But there was also a financial penalty. Mr McGOWAN: That is a good point. The member for Hillarys always raises good points. He raised a great point last week about drugs. The financial penalty was $2 million and the cost of the stadium was $40 million. The builder could lose his $10 million and a $2 million penalty; that is, $12 million. However, he would save $40 million of construction costs on a facility that would not be commercially viable because these things are never commercially viable. These sorts of sporting facilities never make a profit. They are there for community use and enjoyment as part of the arrangements that Governments put in place for the people of their State or country, so that good quality sport can be enjoyed. That is an obligation of government that we have always understood. Every council, State Government and national Government knows that. So what does the builder lose? He loses $12 million but he saves $40 million in construction costs. In October 2000, when I was the shadow minister for sport, I said that there was a hole in the contract. The successful tenderer could get out of the contract for a $2 million penalty and did not have to build a $40 million stadium. If I were the successful tenderer, I would not build a stadium for $40 million when I can get out of it for $12 million. It was ridiculous. To be fair, I do not blame Multiplex because I would have done exactly the same thing. A builder does not enter into a building project to make a loss. If the Government writes up a contract that enables a builder to save an enormous amount of money, why would he not get out of it? It is no more complex than that.

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Mr Johnson: Soccer is more popular in Australia than Aussie Rules and the gate takings at soccer matches are far greater than those at Aussie Rules matches. Mr McGOWAN: That statement shows the cogency of his argument! Australian Rules is the most attended and most popular sport in Australia; not soccer. Mr Trenorden: You are wrong because netball is actually the most popular sport. Putting that aside, however, Aussie Rules is one of the most popular sports. Mr McGOWAN: I thank the member for Avon who is a well-known supporter of netball. I think he has played in a few mixed netball teams himself. The contract to construct the dedicated soccer-rugby stadium was flawed from the start. This Government came into office with a flawed contract, and a company that was exercising its contractual obligations in a totally justifiable way, and in a way that any reasonable person would act. In coming to office this Government was confronted with five years of unfulfilled promises and a soccer and a rugby loving public that wanted a decent facility. The Minister for Sport and Recreation, quite sensibly, has prepared a facilities plan. That is something that should have been done in this State 20 years ago instead of the ad hoc approach to facilities that has taken place in which the loudest, most pressing requests of sporting bodies are listened to rather than taking a long- term view of what needs to be put in place. The minister then came up with an arrangement to construct a soccer-rugby stadium that meets the needs of the sport. The Perth site is a better venue than that chosen by the former Government. Although Perth Glory has been at the Perth Oval site only about six years, it is the best site and has some tradition. The soccer public has developed a fine tradition and a sense of heritage at that site over the past six years. The Perth site is the best site for this sport and the spot where Perth Glory has done an amazing job, which is probably unprecedented in the history of Australian soccer and perhaps the history of Australian team sport. Perth Glory has come from nowhere to this amazing position in Australian sport. The soccer-loving public love that the Perth venue. The minister put together an arrangement for $7 million that was the best that he could make. That is the history of this issue, the way this issue has developed and the reason for this minister putting together an arrangement that will meet the future needs of soccer and rugby in this State. It is quite obvious why we could not use the Western Australian Cricket Association ground and Subiaco Oval, and other events intervened that meant we could not use the Leederville site. The Perth site was always the best option. There is also the social benefit, because that area of Perth will be revitalised as a result of this proposal. The Leederville end of Perth has developed into a lovely part of town. This is a great deal for the State. Debate interrupted, pursuant to standing orders. House adjourned at 7.00 pm ______

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