A P P E A R A N C E S
The Sole Member: His Honour Judge Peter Smithwick
For the Tribunal: Mrs. Mary Laverty, SC Mr. Justin Dillon, SC Mr. Dara Hayes, BL Mr. Fintan Valentine, BL
Instructed by: Jane McKevitt Solicitor
For the Commissioner of An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC Mr. Michael Durack, SC Mr. Gareth Baker, BL
Instructed by: Mary Cummins CSSO
For Owen Corrigan: Mr. Jim O'Callaghan, SC Mr. Darren Lehane, BL
Instructed by: Fintan Lawlor Lawlor Partners Solicitors
For Leo Colton: Mr. Paul Callan, SC Mr. Eamon Coffey, BL
Instructed by: Dermot Lavery Solicitors For Finbarr Hickey: Fionnuala O'Sullivan, BL
Instructed by: James MacGuill & Co.
For the Attorney General: Ms. Nuala Butler, SC Mr. Douglas Clarke, SC
Instructed by: CSSO
For Freddie Scappaticci: Niall Mooney, BL
Instructed by: Michael Flanigan Solicitor
For Kevin Fulton: Mr. Neil Rafferty
Instructed by: John McAtamney Solicitor
For Breen Family: Mr. John McBurney
For Buchanan Family/ Heather Currie: Ernie Waterworth McCartan Turkington Breen Solicitors NOTICE: A WORD INDEX IS PROVIDED AT THE BACK OF THIS TRANSCRIPT. THIS IS A USEFUL INDEXING SYSTEM, WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO QUICKLY SEE THE WORDS USED IN THE TRANSCRIPT, WHERE THEY OCCUR AND HOW OFTEN. EXAMPLE: - DOYLE [2] 30:28 45:17 THE WORD “DOYLE” OCCURS TWICE PAGE 30, LINE 28 PAGE 45, LINE 17 I N D E X
Witness Page No. Line No.
JOE EGAN
EXAMINED BY MR. HAYES 2 1
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. McGUINNESS 22 8
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN 28 20
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. COFFEY 32 22
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. RAFFRTY 36 8
SEAN O'CONNELL
EXAMINED BY MRS. LAVERTY 47 1
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. McGUINNESS 59 22
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN 69 17
RE-EXAMINED BY MRS. LAVERTY 75 24 Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 1
1 THE TRIBUNAL RESUMED ON THE 14TH SEPTEMBER 2011 AS FOLLOWS:
2
3 MR. HAYES: Morning Chairman, I think in the first instance
4 this morning I think there is an application for a
5 representation for you to deal with.
6
7 CHAIRMAN: Is Mr. O'Tuathail moving the application?
8
9 MR. EGAN: No, I am. You have -- I appear, instructed by
10 Sean Sheehan Solicitor of Aaron Kelly & Co. You have my
11 written application for representation in this case and I
12 formally move it for representation for Mr. Blair.
13
14 CHAIRMAN: Very good. I note that your application is that
15 you requires the assistance of an experienced solicitor and
16 both junior and senior counsel. Now, I think that he is
17 entitled to some representation, and he will be perhaps
18 referred to in evidence. I think it's appropriate that he
19 should have representation limited to on such occasions as
20 the Statement of Evidence indicates that he will be
21 referred to, and so I would be inclined to give him limited
22 representation on such occasions by a solicitor and one
23 counsel. I don't see the requirement to differentiate from
24 other people with limited representation. So, I grant the
25 application for a solicitor and one counsel. Thank you.
26
27 MR. EGAN: Thank you very much.
28
29 MR. HAYES: Thank you sir, I think the first witness this
30 morning is Assistant Commissioner Joseph Egan.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 2
1 JOE EGAN, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED BY MR. HAYES AS
2 FOLLOWS:
3
4 1 Q. MR. HAYES: Good morning Mr. Egan. I think you joined An
5 Garda Siochana in 1964?
6 A. Yes, that's correct.
7 2 Q. And I think then you retired in 2005 at the rank of
8 Assistant Commissioner?
9 A. Yeah, that's correct.
10 3 Q. I think you served variously throughout your time in on
11 Gardaí, but a lot of it you served in the Special Branch in
12 Dublin Castle and in the National Surveillance Unit which
13 was part of Crime and Security in Garda Headquarters?
14 A. Yes, that's correct.
15 4 Q. I think that, having joined in 1964, you I think from 1969,
16 the beginning of the troubles or thereabouts in Northern
17 Ireland, you became involved in the investigation of the
18 subversives scene?
19 A. Yeah, that's correct, yeah.
20 5 Q. And you remained so pretty much until your retirement?
21 A. Yeah, just short periods that I was away from it, but
22 pretty much all the time, yeah.
23 6 Q. Yes. I think would it be fair to say then that you have a
24 fairly expansive knowledge of subversive activity and such
25 like?
26 A. Yes, I have, yeah.
27 7 Q. Now, even though you had -- obviously you were involved in
28 Crime and Security, you are aware I take it of the murders
29 of Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent Buchanan
30 in 1989?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 3
1 A. Yes, I was, yeah.
2 8 Q. And I think you are aware also that there were a number of
3 investigations into certain aspects of those murders over
4 the years?
5 A. Yes, I was, yeah.
6 9 Q. I think there was -- and the Tribunal has heard of them.
7 There was an investigation conducted by Assistant
8 Commissioner O'Dea in the days following the murders?
9 A. Yes.
10 10 Q. I think then in about the year 2000, there was a further
11 investigation carried out by Chief Superintendent Camon and
12 Superintendent Carty, at the time?
13 A. That's correct, yeah.
14 11 Q. Sorry, Kirwan?
15 A. Peter Kirwan, yeah.
16 12 Q. Peter Kirwan, sorry. You had no involvement in either of
17 those investigations, is that correct?
18 A. No, no.
19 13 Q. I think in the days after the murders, you were in Garda
20 Headquarters at the time, is that correct?
21 A. I was, yeah.
22 14 Q. There was a lot of newspaper speculation certainly in the
23 days in the aftermath about a Garda mole. Do you recall
24 that?
25 A. Yes, it was broadcast fairly liberally and it was the talk
26 among a lot of people on the ground.
27 15 Q. Did you place much credence in such allegations?
28 A. Well, in the context of subversive activity and subversion
29 and the investigation of it, you know, you can't ignore any
30 indicator that comes from any source, so it's a matter of
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 4
1 putting that into the frame and then over a period of time,
2 coming to conclusions on it.
3 16 Q. Is it a case that certainly notice would have been taken
4 and if it fitted into a picture, it might be progressed if
5 it was an isolated thing it might not, or...
6 A. No, it would be taken very seriously because obviously it's
7 a serious incident if such an occurrence had happened.
8 17 Q. Would it have surprised you, I suppose in the general
9 sense, that a member of An Garda Siochana might have given
10 assistance in some way to the IRA?
11 A. Oh it would indeed. I'd be very shocked and disappointed
12 if that were the case. Because so many lives depend on
13 these things as I have found out over the years, so any
14 little chink in the armory is a very serious thing.
15 18 Q. But would you say -- I mean is it something that you aware?
16 Did it happen on occasion?
17 A. Oh it did indeed. There were other incidents that I was
18 aware of where members of the Garda Siochana were -- didn't
19 step up to the mark and failed in their duty in that sense.
20 19 Q. I think you were aware of the former Garda Denis Kelly?
21 A. I was, yeah, yes.
22 20 Q. I think he was convicted of offences essentially of
23 assisting the IRA in the course of his duty, is that
24 correct?
25 A. Yes, that's what it amounted to I am not -- I don't recall
26 the exact crimes that were put against him, but that is the
27 broad thrust of it, assisting the IRA in their activities
28 and leaking information that was confidential to him as a
29 member of the Garda to them.
30 21 Q. I think you played some role in that investigation, is that
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 5
1 correct?
2 A. I did, yes.
3 22 Q. In, I suppose in a sort of a societal way, was there
4 assistance given to the IRA from unexpected quarters on a
5 routine basis, in your opinion, or in your experience?
6 A. Oh without a doubt. You know, I mean in the course of the
7 conflict that ended in '94, there were over 3,000 prisoners
8 convicted in jail and you can multiply by many numbers the
9 number of people who were helping them in their activities
10 who were never in the IRA or never intended to join it, and
11 all of those people are, you know, the prisoners didn't
12 come from one strata of society or one occupational thing.
13 They came from every quarter. So, it was -- and it fits in
14 with the international norm in subversion.
15 23 Q. It would, I suppose, be a matter to some degree of common
16 sense that a subversive organisation would seek information
17 and intelligence from as many sources as it can gather, is
18 that correct?
19 A. It was the life blood of the Provisional IRA when it was
20 formed first in '69, that's where they built-up their
21 organisation from was through their gathering of
22 intelligence.
23 24 Q. No more, I suppose, than the people who were trying to
24 combat such organisations, also tried to gather information
25 and intelligence about them?
26 A. Yes, mirror image, the same thing, yeah.
27 25 Q. Are you aware of the -- you have no particular knowledge of
28 the murders themselves, is that correct? You had no role
29 in the investigation of them or circumstances relating to
30 them?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 6
1 A. No, only the progress of the investigation, but I wasn't
2 part of that, no.
3 26 Q. You are aware, though, I think of the, I suppose the facts
4 of the murders; that the two RUC officers had come to visit
5 their counterpart in Dundalk Garda Station, that shortly
6 having left there, shortly having crossed back over the
7 border south of Jonesboro, they were ambushed and murdered?
8 A. Yes, indeed, I am aware as to the circumstances, yeah.
9 27 Q. In your experience of the IRA, and I suppose particularly
10 the South Armagh IRA, how carefully did they operate?
11 A. Well, they operated within a very tight community there and
12 you know, they had a part of the country that was suitable
13 for the type of operation they did. When they were formed,
14 there was a long history of smuggling and illegal activity
15 of that nature being carried out. So, as time went on,
16 that type of operation and the operations that the IRA
17 themselves were engaged in were in somewhat complementary
18 to one another and both availed of the opportunity and it
19 was a hallmark of their modus operandi right throughout the
20 years.
21 28 Q. Insofar as you were aware, were the operations mounted by
22 them carefully prepared or were they done on the hoof, as
23 it were?
24 A. Well, they had a hard core of dedicated terrorists within
25 the area themselves, and they all lived relatively near one
26 another and the activities of smuggling and, you know,
27 aligned -- people working and moving up and down across the
28 border, they had good cover. So over the years they did
29 develop a very slick operation of out maneuvering, you
30 know, operations that were put against them and they were a
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 7
1 difficult group to investigate and detect what they were
2 at.
3 29 Q. Is that a reference specifically to the South Armagh IRA or
4 to the IRA in general?
5 A. Well, you see one of the difficulties that you have is the
6 IRA were from an early enough stage put in place a northern
7 command and a southern command, and the northern command
8 then were the nine counties of Ulster which caused
9 difficulty for the security forces because, as you
10 understand, the Garda didn't have operational capacity in
11 three of the counties which were under our jurisdiction,
12 you know, in terms of IRA activity. So that did cause
13 difficulties, you know.
14 30 Q. I suppose they didn't recognise partition insofar as their
15 command structures went?
16 A. No.
17 31 Q. Or in any other way I suppose?
18 A. No.
19 32 Q. The northern command was the -- so the northern command was
20 the nine counties of Ulster, which therefore obviously
21 included south Armagh?
22 A. Yeah.
23 33 Q. It included south Down?
24 A. Yeah.
25 34 Q. Were did Dundalk fit into the command structure, sort of
26 north Louth area in general?
27 A. Well, the operatives there would come under the northern
28 command, but there was a further complication in that --
29 it's often hard to understand the workings of it because
30 the units right down to the southern end of Ireland were
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 8
1 continually seconding people from their own command area to
2 the northern command especially, and that often caused
3 difficulty in trying to detect what was going on because
4 you might have people from Cork or Kerry actually carrying
5 out the deeds but they are doing it on secondment from the
6 southern command. So, their southern command Masters
7 wouldn't know what they were actually doing. It's
8 complicated type of structure.
9 35 Q. It was, I suppose it was a fluid structure to a degree?
10 A. It was indeed, yeah.
11 36 Q. It wasn't sort of terribly regimented. The Chairman has
12 heard evidence previously that, and I think you also
13 alluded to it, that the South Armagh Unit was a tight knit
14 unit, is that correct?
15 A. That's correct, yeah.
16 37 Q. Did they have, to your knowledge, did they have less
17 occasion for the use of seconded personnel from elsewhere?
18 A. Well, they tended to be self-contained all right, yeah,
19 yeah. And I mean, you might say -- I wasn't operational
20 there, but that's one of the things in investigation of the
21 terrorism, I would do it more on a broad basis in line with
22 many agencies in different countries and what not,
23 including those that have jurisdiction there, and my
24 assessment would go much further than just the
25 investigation. It would go a long time afterwards to see
26 where it fitted in. So, a lot of information can be
27 gathered afterwards when the IRA are finished with their
28 operation but that doesn't, you know, finish the
29 intelligence and the assessment, so that's really how I
30 would judge what I say or know about them.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 9
1 38 Q. You have an overview rather than a --
2 A. Exactly, yeah.
3 39 Q. -- specific, locational knowledge?
4 A. Yeah.
5 40 Q. I mean would it be fair to say, I mean I think your
6 jurisdiction, for want of a better word, was border law,
7 was that --
8 A. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
9 41 Q. Insofar as you are aware, what was the level I suppose of
10 northern security force presence in the area north of the
11 border?
12 A. Well, the immediate area just across the border, it was my
13 -- what I found over the years from my own view from what I
14 saw and encountered right across the border from the Louth
15 border right up to Donegal, the immediate area just inside
16 the border stretching for half a mile, a mile, generally,
17 unless there was assistance available immediately from the
18 British Army, the RUC wouldn't enter into that area
19 irrespective of what the offence is were it investigated.
20 You know, it might take a few days for them to get
21 clearance and to come back down that area.
22 42 Q. Would you be more likely to have the British Army there on
23 the ground than the RUC?
24 A. Well one generally didn't operate without the other, but
25 most times the British Army weren't readily available and
26 they have, you know, they have different protocols from
27 police, armies and police operate different, and speed
28 wasn't always the most delivered part of the operation, you
29 know.
30 43 Q. Just coming back to the intelligence gathering of the IRA,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 10
1 in your opinion are they likely to have gathered
2 intelligence on the movements of RUC officers coming south?
3 A. Oh I'd say there was no doubt they did, yeah.
4 44 Q. Are you aware of -- I mean, of instances of intelligence
5 gathering done by the IRA?
6 A. I am, yeah, yeah.
7 45 Q. Could you tell the Chairman insofar as you can, of any
8 examples of that?
9 A. Well, on three occasions in searches of premises that I
10 carried out here in Dublin, I recovered the archive files
11 of their intelligence department and I had the job of going
12 through them and assessing them and seeing where they come
13 from. So, I think I'd have a fair idea of their -- how
14 they operate and how they gathered them and how they
15 progressed over the years and how they updated their
16 intelligence.
17 46 Q. Did they gather intelligence on members of An Garda
18 Siochana?
19 A. Yeah, that was a hallmark from '69 well up into the 70s.
20 New recruits into the IRA, especially in the Dublin area,
21 that was the first task they were given to, generally it
22 was to go to the local libraries and go through the postal
23 voters and, in general terms, who were either police or
24 army, in them days, that is changed now, and to list them
25 out then and have it investigated to see who lived at the
26 addresses given and record it and numerous times I have
27 actually stopped them and arrested them and detained people
28 doing intelligence on members of the Garda's house.
29 47 Q. I see. In respect of the operation that led to the murders
30 of Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent Buchanan,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 11
1 can you say how long it might have taken to mount the
2 operation first of all on the day itself?
3 A. Well, considering you are talking about within the south
4 Armagh area, which at that stage was pretty much up and
5 running and had a good sophisticated organisation in place.
6 People living near one another, and depending on the
7 numbers required, but you know, 20 minutes, 30 minutes to
8 the IRA in them days in a place like south Armagh, if the
9 necessity arose, it wouldn't really have phased them much,
10 you know.
11 48 Q. Were there volunteers readily available to them?
12 A. You see, volunteers were constantly on the move because
13 they were, you know -- you know, the IRA isn't like a
14 conventional army, they don't get up at eight in the
15 morning or nine in the morning and have to sign off at five
16 in the afternoon. You know, they are -- at that point in
17 time, they probably had a surplus of, by many numbers, of
18 people wanting to join the IRA. You know, there might be a
19 misconception that there was thousands or hundreds in the
20 IRA at a given time. That's not the case at all. The
21 number of people operative on the ground was very limited
22 in actual fact so that those that did get in, it was a type
23 of operation that you know, the pressure was on, if you got
24 in you wanted to stay in and deliver so you didn't fail to
25 turn up if the call came.
26 49 Q. What type of communication did they use, do you know,
27 particularly in 1989?
28 A. Around that time the use of CB radios was rampant at that
29 stage and it was a well tried and trusted system among the
30 lorry drivers and the smugglers, so, I think they had a
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 12
1 pretty good -- at a given time, they mightn't be very much
2 up-to-date now in technology, but you know that type of
3 technology, but certainly of its day, it was good, yeah.
4 50 Q. Were mobile phones much in use at the time?
5 A. No, not really, no.
6 51 Q. How convenient would it have been for them to recover,
7 insofar as you know, to recover whatever weapons they used
8 on the day?
9 A. Ah, it would be relatively easy in an area like Armagh, or
10 in any command area. They had the country split into
11 commands where an OC was in charge and he would have
12 different people designated to do jobs. So I mean you
13 wouldn't be talking about a huge number of guns. There is
14 probably a misconception along that there were, you know,
15 tonnes of arms available to every IRA person on the ground.
16 They were very limited and you know, just to -- on that
17 point, any analyses of the number of weapons used by the
18 IRA over the whole period of the 30 years campaign are very
19 small really, judged on forensic testing of those found,
20 which showed to be used many, many times over in the same
21 areas. So, taking that into account as well, that the
22 regularity of their use, you know, it would -- it suggested
23 they were available pretty, you know, much and they would
24 be easily accessible.
25 52 Q. Are you familiar with the concept of there having been
26 command weapons?
27 A. Yes. Well the way it was structured, you know, at various
28 times initially when the IRA were formed in '69, let's face
29 it, they didn't have anything. They had no weapons, no
30 guns, no personnel. So, they built-up from there on. The
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 13
1 initial firearms were supplied by the general public in the
2 country from their legally held stock and then from then on
3 there were numerous importations took place, some
4 successful and others -- but some got through, and then
5 when the Libyan armory arrived in the country, conventional
6 armory in '85, they were huge stockpiles that came in one
7 go. So that allowed them to spread them out, they had to,
8 storing them was a big problem and they designated certain
9 numbers to go to each area, command area, not huge, but
10 then they became self-sufficient, because they had the
11 numbers, even though records will show and intelligence
12 show afterwards that the vast majority of them were never
13 used, you know.
14 53 Q. And who, in -- who, I suppose, in each area would authorise
15 the use of weapons for a particular operation?
16 A. Well, it would be down to the local OC who would be given
17 them, you know, and he'd have to account for them. And you
18 must remember also that in this context, you have to read
19 it with the instructions of the, of their so-called army,
20 their green book, which the primacy, even above personnel,
21 is weaponry, or was weaponry, and any interference,
22 unlawful or unauthorised use of the weaponry in the green
23 book it meant only one thing, that you were court
24 martialled and probably shot.
25 54 Q. And were there a number of, or was there a number of units
26 under each OC?
27 A. Yeah, well you'd have the OC in the command area -- well,
28 you'd have first and foremost the decision and how they'd
29 be used taking in the overall context by the Army Council
30 and passed to the general Headquarters and then authorised
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 14
1 down along the line to the local OC in the command area.
2 55 Q. In respect of the murders into which the Chairman is
3 inquiring, do you have an opinion as to whether or not
4 these murders would have been authorised at an Army Council
5 level or at a local level or does it matter which?
6 A. Well, you see, the problem you have in that is that
7 decisions would be taken by the Army Council and level 2,
8 in the broad terms to target members of the RUC or the
9 British Army or guards or whatever they were going to take
10 the illegal acts against on the day, and then it would be
11 passed onto the GHQ staff who had people in charge of each
12 department and they would design, then, that, you know,
13 they might need to carry them out in Armagh or for some
14 particular reason may trigger off that action had to be
15 taken because of some act that was taken against them, or
16 they perceived that there was sources acting against them
17 or whatever, you know. So, it would be structured enough,
18 yeah, and it would be authorised in general terms, but the
19 name Breen and Buchanan may well not have been mention but
20 they could come within the realm of the instruction given
21 out.
22 56 Q. The Army Council would classify what they called legitimate
23 targets?
24 A. Exactly, yeah.
25 57 Q. And the local units would identify?
26 A. Identify them and carry them out, yeah.
27 58 Q. I see.
28 A. And it does seem at the time that members of the RUC and
29 British Army were particular targets. Like, that changed
30 somewhat then afterwards to economic targets with -- and
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 15
1 again there is other reasons for that because they began to
2 ditch the use of conventional weaponry and to go into the
3 improvised weaponry which they perfected. So you know, you
4 had changes that were -- decisions were made and then down
5 to the lower levels to carry out.
6 59 Q. In your experience, was there much intermingling between
7 South Down and North Louth units of the IRA?
8 A. Ah there would be, yes. There was, because again, as I
9 say, they were all in the northern command, they were under
10 the one OC in the northern command, so they could well be.
11 I mean, teams were put in place, or because they were being
12 infiltrated under the regime, Seamus Twomey, as chief of
13 staff, they changed how they operated so you could have two
14 from Armagh teaming up with two from Dundalk to carry out
15 an operation and they wouldn't know one another and what
16 not. It was a security thing put in place.
17 60 Q. Yes. And then again was there much linkage between south
18 Down and south Armagh?
19 A. Ah, you would have a lot of linkage yeah, I mean they are
20 broadly in the same area you know, so they'd be
21 complementing one another in their activities.
22 61 Q. You have told the Chairman through much of your career an
23 area of particular interest to you was the length of the
24 border. I think you also had occasion on many, many
25 occasions to deal with your counterparts in the RUC?
26 A. Yes, yeah.
27 62 Q. In the same way that what had happened on this day was that
28 Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent Buchanan had
29 come south to liaise with their counterpart in Dundalk?
30 A. Yeah.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 16
1 63 Q. And on occasions, it worked vice versa, where their
2 counterparts from Dundalk would go and visit them. Did you
3 have similar arrangements where you would go to the North
4 to liaise with your counterparts and have them come to you?
5 A. Oh, yes. I'd go and -- and these were all authorised now.
6 These weren't just casual. It would be in an authorised
7 way I attended probably hundreds of times in Northern
8 Ireland at meetings.
9 64 Q. I think certainly there were regular scheduled meetings
10 about every month or so?
11 A. Yeah, yeah, and as necessary, yeah, after that.
12 65 Q. And as necessary after that?
13 A. Yeah.
14 66 Q. And I suppose as necessary after that perhaps were more
15 informally arranged, would that be fair to say rather than
16 the --
17 A. Well I mean, they weren't just in Northern Ireland. I have
18 travelled many countries, probably every country in Europe
19 and the States and Canada to meetings in connection with
20 the same thing.
21 67 Q. The Tribunal has been told, and has yet to formally hear
22 evidence in relation to it, but has been told that in the
23 mid-1980s, there was RUC intelligence received that
24 suggested that Detective Sergeant Owen Corrigan of Dundalk
25 Garda Station assisted the IRA with knowledge of security
26 force movement in the North. I think at the time you were
27 in Garda Headquarters?
28 A. Yes, yes I was, yes.
29 68 Q. And I think were you ever made aware of information of that
30 nature?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 17
1 A. No, no.
2 69 Q. Can you recall at the time, again in the mid-1980s, what
3 your general role was?
4 A. I think in the mid-80s I would have been on the Task Forces
5 going to the border and performing duty there, you know, in
6 terms of searches and subversion in general.
7 70 Q. Would that have included going to the north Louth area?
8 A. It would, yeah, yeah.
9 71 Q. In that context in particular, would you have expected, had
10 such information been received, to have been told about it?
11 A. Oh, without a doubt, yeah. Now, from an information point
12 of view. I mean, if I was going to the border with a group
13 of people and working in an area where a person was giving
14 information to the opposition and I was going out on duty
15 putting your life on the line, I think it would be
16 outrageous if you weren't told.
17 72 Q. When you went North on duty, did you take any specific
18 security precautions?
19 A. Well, that varied. I mean you always took security
20 precautions, you know, commensurate with the situation that
21 you were in, going with the group of people there'd
22 generally be 29, 30 people travelling to do maybe a month's
23 work on the border, out in the field. That in itself would
24 entail security precautions being put in place and then on
25 an individual basis, if you were going to meetings in the
26 North, well again you adopt just a careful approach. I
27 didn't look for escorts. They were there, I have no doubt
28 if I needed them or if I wanted them, but I chose not to do
29 that, but I'd be careful about the routes I took and
30 changing them and changing cars and that type of thing you
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 18
1 know. They are the general security precautions I'd take.
2 73 Q. And when you say that escorts you imagine were available,
3 was that available both in the North and the south?
4 A. Oh it was -- well in the south I can speak for anyway
5 because I was in that department for a short-term of time
6 where security was looked after, and any request for
7 escorts was provided and generally that was to Headquarters
8 staff in Belfast. They would, in my opinion, or
9 recollection, they always got escorts, but at local level
10 down, you know we'll say Newry to Dundalk or Aughnacloy to
11 Monaghan or that type when people would generally would,
12 you know, short runs, would look after their own, your own
13 precautions.
14 74 Q. Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent Buchanan,
15 they were never counterparts of yours, is that correct?
16 A. No, no.
17 75 Q. And as you say, they were divisional officers rather than
18 Headquarters officers?
19 A. Yeah.
20 76 Q. And insofar as you are aware, at that local level there was
21 less use of escorts in general, is that correct?
22 A. Exactly, yeah, yeah.
23 77 Q. Again, and this is a matter that reference has been made
24 but as yet the evidence is not before the Chairman, but the
25 Chairman has heard of a person by the name of Kevin Fulton,
26 who calls himself Kevin Fulton or whose real name is Peter
27 Keeley. Have you ever come across a person of that name?
28 A. I have, yes, yeah.
29 78 Q. Did you have any involvement with Judge Cory when he was
30 here?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 19
1 A. Yeah, I was the Assistant Commissioner in Crime and
2 Security when he came and he conducted his investigations
3 based on the files that were under my command and I had,
4 you know, had daily dealings with him on that and
5 clarifications and what not.
6 79 Q. You and your department provided assistance to him?
7 A. We did indeed, yeah.
8 80 Q. Are you aware that Mr. Keeley made a statement to Judge
9 Cory?
10 A. I am, yeah.
11 81 Q. And are you aware of the contents of that statement?
12 A. Broadly, yes, yeah.
13 82 Q. He said in that that he worked with his local IRA
14 commander, a man who he called 'Mooch' Blair, Patrick
15 Joseph Blair, are you aware of Mr. Blair?
16 A. I am, yes.
17 83 Q. Are you aware whether Mr. Keeley had any involvement with
18 Mr. Blair?
19 A. Well, I am aware of claims made in that area but I have no
20 specific knowledge personally of them.
21 84 Q. Did it ever come to your attention, or did Mr. Keeley's
22 activities in Dundalk ever come to your attention or in
23 around Dundalk?
24 A. Well his activities in general came to my attention
25 because, as I say, because of the work I was doing I had
26 broad based contacts and meetings with many agencies, not
27 alone the RUC and the British Army, so I would be gathering
28 intelligence from many sources and included in them were
29 intelligence on Peter Keeley.
30 85 Q. And what do you know of Mr. Blair?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 20
1 A. Well again in relation to subversion, for many years
2 'Mooch' Blair came to notice as a person that was involved
3 in terrorism and was very active in the south Armagh/north
4 Louth area. When the peace process came, he didn't flow
5 with the Good Friday Agreement and he -- our intelligence
6 was that he opposed it.
7 86 Q. We don't need for the moment to go into what your
8 intelligence is, but if that's required we can deal with
9 that on another occasion?
10 A. Okay.
11 87 Q. But to your knowledge, he was a member of the IRA in the
12 Dundalk area?
13 A. Yeah, he was.
14 88 Q. Were you ever aware of allegations that he had a Garda
15 source working for him in Dundalk?
16 A. No.
17 89 Q. Or had access to a Garda source in Dundalk?
18 A. No.
19 90 Q. I think were you aware, or did you have any role in the
20 investigation into the kidnapping of Detective Sergeant
21 Corrigan in 1995?
22 A. Yeah, on the day he was, that the kidnapping took place of
23 himself and Mr. O'Brien, I was in Northern Ireland on the
24 day meeting people and he was asked by my office then to --
25 I was informed about what had happened and I returned back
26 down from Northern Ireland and teamed up with the
27 investigators on the scene. I was there for a number of
28 hours.
29 91 Q. Did you have any active role in the investigation?
30 A. No, I didn't become involved as a member of the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 21
1 investigating team but I was there to give whatever
2 assistance from an intelligence point of view that I could,
3 or to fasten up if inquiries were needed to be made north
4 or south, which obviously there were, and to facilitate
5 them and to facilitate communications between the two
6 forces. That was mostly the help I gave to them but I
7 didn't become part of the investigation team.
8 92 Q. Do you know, or was it ever suggested to you why
9 Mr. Corrigan was kidnapped?
10 A. Well before I left Drogheda and Dundalk at night, which was
11 late, I was under the clear impression, based on, again not
12 based on any solid facts, but the general perception among
13 people and mostly Garda members let me say, was that it was
14 to do with smuggling and tricking around with illegal drink
15 and not paying for it. That's the clear impression I had,
16 but I have no facts to back that up.
17 93 Q. That was speculation?
18 A. Yes, well it was the common held view.
19 94 Q. And just one last thing I am just going back to what you
20 were discussing about your security arrangements when you
21 travelled. You were an armed member of An Garda Siochana?
22 A. That's correct, yeah.
23 95 Q. Did you make much use of that facility?
24 A. Well, when you say make much use of it -- sorry, I mean you
25 had the comfort of knowing that you had it. I only engaged
26 in a shooting once in an arrest situation, and after that
27 generally, you know, there is mixed views on whether you
28 used your firearms or had them with you, but going into
29 crowds and having a firearm, I always took the view it's
30 unlikely you are going to, even if you were cornered, that
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 22
1 you were going to take out a firearm and start shooting
2 among maybe a thousand or two thousand civilians. So, I
3 was flexible on when and where and how I carried a firearm.
4
5 MR. HAYES: Very good. Thank you very much, Mr. Egan, if
6 you'll answer any questions that anybody else has.
7
8 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. McGUINNESS AS
9 FOLLOWS:
10
11 96 Q. MR. McGUINNESS: Good morning, Mr. Egan. My name is
12 Diarmuid McGuinness. I appear for An Garda Siochana in
13 this matter.
14 A. Okay.
15 97 Q. You were telling Mr. Hayes about your view of IRA
16 intelligence and in your opinion, was IRA intelligence
17 really the life blood that was necessary for them to give
18 effect to their operations?
19 A. It was, yes, yeah.
20 98 Q. And insofar as Mr. Hayes has referred to the newspapers
21 referring to a mole, were you ever aware of what basis, if
22 any, they had for asserting that there may have been a mole
23 in the Gardai?
24 A. I wasn't really. You know, I have analysed long and hard
25 on many, many, many publications and I have spoken to many
26 authors of these and, you know, there is flaws in all the
27 analyses that come up. And that's the result of what I
28 have found, you know.
29 99 Q. As you say, it was part of your job, a necessary part of
30 your job to review published material from a wide variety
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 23
1 of sources?
2 A. It was indeed, yeah.
3 100 Q. And no doubt you have read many books connected with the
4 recent history of the IRA?
5 A. Yes, all the books from the beginning I suppose I have
6 really.
7 101 Q. And without going into any particular IRA operation, is it
8 evident from the published literature that they depended
9 very heavily on intelligence in order to enable them to
10 carry out their operations?
11 A. It is really, yeah, yeah.
12 102 Q. Now, in terms of Garda intelligence, obviously the flow of
13 intelligence to the Gardaí is vital in trying to combat
14 such IRA subversion?
15 A. It is, it's the life blood of it really, yeah.
16 103 Q. And anything that would impinge on the flow of intelligence
17 would be extremely detrimental to State security?
18 A. It would, yeah.
19 104 Q. And looking at one aspect of intelligence that comes to the
20 Gardaí from non Garda sources, civilians, or informers,
21 perhaps, that's a vital component in Garda intelligence?
22 A. Oh, it is a vital component, yeah.
23 105 Q. And the protection of that is of vital importance also,
24 would you agree with that?
25 A. Oh very much so, yeah.
26 106 Q. And in terms of issues relating to informer identity and
27 the information that they have given, often and in many
28 cases the identity of the Garda handler is of crucial
29 importance in protecting a source?
30 A. Yes. I mean the less information that's available on any
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 24
1 aspect of the intelligence gathering is a security thing
2 and the more you give, the more there is likely to be a
3 breach.
4 107 Q. And revealing the identity of Garda handlers can assist, or
5 could assist in pinpointing the geographic location or the
6 time at which information was given?
7 A. Oh, without a doubt, but you also have the other aspect of
8 your responsibility to the handler. I mean, in them days,
9 if the IRA found out that you were a handler of two or
10 three sources within their organisation, well I don't think
11 you'd sleep too easy at night in your house.
12 108 Q. But would you agree with me that in general terms, every
13 detail relating to the processing of Garda intelligence
14 from informants, it's vital to protect that?
15 A. It is indeed, yeah.
16 109 Q. And in terms of the type of analysis that you have referred
17 to, I think it's clear from your evidence that the Gardaí,
18 after operations, can often receive valuable and accurate
19 intelligence, even many years after an operation?
20 A. Oh indeed it can. Subversion is different from normal
21 police work. It's a phenomenon of its own and it requires
22 a different type of policing.
23 110 Q. Obviously, apart from the issue as to whether you gather
24 enough evidence to prosecute anyone, part of the fight
25 against subversion involves analysing intelligence whenever
26 it comes in in the best possible way?
27 A. Indeed it is, yeah.
28 111 Q. Now, insofar as the particular murders are concerned, I
29 think you say in your statement that the chances of the IRA
30 not recording information relating to Superintendent
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 25
1 Buchanan and his car are nil?
2 A. Yeah, well I would think that's correct, yeah.
3 112 Q. And is it the case that you have even discovered that the
4 IRA had gathered and had a great deal of information on
5 you?
6 A. Yes. I mean I say that factually because I saw the proof
7 of it.
8 113 Q. In terms of any intelligence from the RUC, were you ever
9 made aware, when you were in Special Branch or in Crime and
10 Security or as Assistant Commissioner, that the RUC
11 allegedly had intelligence on Sergeant Corrigan?
12 A. No, I was not.
13 114 Q. Would you have expected to have been told of that?
14 A. I would, yes.
15 115 Q. Mr. Hayes was asking you about the IRA operation and in
16 particular in relation to the South Armagh Units of the
17 IRA, and I think you offered the view that operationally it
18 may have been possible to put that into effect in perhaps
19 as little as half an hour. Is that correct?
20 A. I would have thought so, yeah.
21 116 Q. But would you agree with me that they are most likely to
22 have planned it in order to put it into operation well
23 before that?
24 A. I'd say if, certainly if they had the knowledge or they
25 were looking at them over a period of time, yes, they would
26 have planned it, yeah.
27 117 Q. And obviously there is a distinction between planning it
28 and putting it into operation?
29 A. Exactly, yeah.
30 118 Q. And would you expect surveillance, prior surveillance to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 26
1 have been a requisite for the IRA to have put this plan
2 into operation on the day, in all probability?
3 A. They probably would, but it's -- you know, there is a much
4 broader picture there of how they did surveillance and
5 whether it was feasible and what not because, I mean we
6 have practical examples of how they put surveillance into
7 being and I am not -- you see, it could be utilising, not
8 an IRA person at all on the route who would tell them when
9 the car had passed.
10 119 Q. It could be spotters?
11 A. Exactly.
12 120 Q. Or they sometimes referred to as 'Dickers'?
13 A. But this did have a sophisticated surveillance team they
14 could put in place but that would take quite time to put
15 them into being. I mean we are aware of people in it and
16 it wouldn't be mounted in a short period, but they could
17 mount the spotters in a short time.
18 121 Q. And I mean obviously the IRA gathered intelligence through
19 other means than individual spotters or individual people
20 following members of the RUC?
21 A. Oh, without a doubt. You know, I mean you know, just for
22 some practical example to give it, you know if somebody
23 knew that Mr. X was going to a hospital and they had a
24 porter in the hospital, well there, you know... and we have
25 many instances of similar type intelligence being used by
26 them.
27 122 Q. Did you read Mr. Collins' book for instance, Eamon Collins,
28 he detailed how he gathered intelligence?
29 A. I mean I knew Eamon Collins well, I knew him to speak to
30 for a long time so I am aware of his general attitude to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 27
1 all these things.
2 123 Q. Just in terms of the weaponry of the South Armagh IRA and
3 whether it would have been necessary to authorise their
4 use. In your opinion, was most of the weaponry used by
5 that brigade personal to the members of the brigade or have
6 you a view on that?
7 A. I doubt if it was for -- they would have personal use of
8 it. I say some of them probably had for other reasons, you
9 know, protecting themselves, they may be people on the run,
10 what not. But in general terms you wouldn't have a unit
11 meeting on a Friday and handing out guns to one another to
12 carry, you know. It would be for a specific purpose.
13 124 Q. In relation to Mr. Corrigan and when he was kidnapped. The
14 information that you got, that wouldn't be classified as
15 intelligence about the general view of the guards as to --
16 that was commonly, common gossip as such as opposed to
17 intelligence?
18 A. Well, yes, well it would be more than gossip. Like, I
19 mean, I was clearly identified as being a member of the
20 Garda Siochana and, you know, people wouldn't be just
21 feeding me gossip. But I think, you know, it's hard to get
22 a proper description. It was general talk and rumour,
23 yeah.
24 125 Q. But you'd call that perhaps 'soft intelligence' rather than
25 a proper informer intelligence obviously?
26 A. Well, it may be soft at the time but when you put it -- say
27 you were aligning it with what is now being presented to
28 the Tribunal, you know, that's the type of thing I am
29 talking about, the long term, marrying of pieces along the
30 line, it may become much more important than gossip.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 28
1
2 MR. McGUINNESS: Thank you, Mr. Egan.
3 126 Q. Sorry, perhaps just one more question, Chairman. You
4 obviously knew Commissioner Crowley well?
5 A. I did, yeah.
6 127 Q. And you knew him when he was Assistant Commissioner in
7 charge of Crime and Security?
8 A. Yeah.
9 128 Q. If someone had come to him with an allegation that Sergeant
10 Corrigan or any other member was in possible collusion, do
11 you think he'd have done nothing about that?
12 A. I don't believe it for one moment based on the my knowledge
13 of the man and of his working methodology, not alone in
14 Crime and Security but I worked under him in the Special
15 Branch as well and I had many, many dealings with him, and
16 I just -- I couldn't comprehend a situation where he'd
17 ignore something like that.
18 129 Q. Thank you.
19
20 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN AS
21 FOLLOWS:
22
23 130 Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Good afternoon, Mr. Egan, I appear for
24 Owen Corrigan. I have a couple of questions for you.
25 Can I ask you, where did you encounter Kevin Fulton for the
26 first time?
27 A. In the course of conversation would be the first time, but
28 if you mean physically?
29 131 Q. Yeah, physically.
30 A. Physically, in Dublin.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 29
1 132 Q. And could you put a date on it?
2 A. I can't honestly at this stage.
3 133 Q. Was it around the time of Judge Cory doing his work?
4 A. No, no.
5 134 Q. It was earlier than that?
6 A. I had nothing to do with Judge Cory --
7 135 Q. What was your impression of Kevin Fulton?
8 A. Well I didn't speak to him. Other than seeing him
9 physically I didn't speak to him, but what he conveyed for
10 me to investigate at that stage was not correct and it was
11 absolutely misleading what he was trying to portray to me.
12 136 Q. Could you identify for the Chairman what sort of time
13 period you are talking about when that occurred?
14 A. Well, the only indication I can give now, and I am trying
15 to be as clear as I can, Assistant Commissioner O'Dea was
16 the Assistant Commissioner in Crime and Security at the
17 time and it would be maybe a year or two before he retired,
18 so that's the only benchmark that I can fully recall at
19 this stage.
20 137 Q. And what was he trying to get you to investigate?
21 A. Well, I'd prefer not to delve into that at this stage.
22 138 Q. Okay, maybe I'll try and go around it a different way. I
23 suppose the reason that this is of relevance to this
24 Tribunal, sir, is because Kevin Fulton's evidence is going
25 to be crucial to the Chairman reaching a conclusion on
26 issues relating to this Tribunal. Can I ask you from what
27 was said to you by him or on his behalf, would you regard
28 him as somebody who is reliable?
29 A. No, I would not.
30 139 Q. Would you regard him as somebody who is trustworthy?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 30
1 A. No.
2 140 Q. Would you regard him as somebody who is honest?
3 A. No.
4 141 Q. Would you agree with me that there are a number of people
5 who seem to make a career now out of portraying themselves
6 as playing a very important role in the troubles in
7 Northern Ireland?
8 A. Oh, the analysis that I have done of the years, undoubtedly
9 that's the case.
10 142 Q. From your experience working along the border during the
11 years of the troubles, did Mr. Fulton ever come to your
12 attention, either by that name or by the name of Peter
13 Keeley, as someone who was high up involved in the IRA?
14 A. No.
15 143 Q. You know the allegation he will make is that Mr. Corrigan
16 was in a car with Mr. Blair at a time, and that that's
17 evidence of Mr. Corrigan giving information to the IRA.
18 What have you to say about that account that Mr. Fulton may
19 give to the Chairman?
20 A. Well, I mean I have no knowledge whether that's true or not
21 true and what the circumstances were or if it's proof of
22 anything that a guard was in a car with an IRA man. You
23 know, it's such a wide and broad question that really, I
24 just -- the truth is I don't honestly know.
25 144 Q. Would you agree with me, though, it would be very unusual
26 if the IRA had a Garda mole, that they would sit with that
27 Garda mole in a car with a prominent IRA man in Dundalk?
28 A. Well, given the circumstances of the activities of 'Mooch'
29 Blair and the number of people who mightn't necessarily be
30 in the IRA but the eyes and ears if they were required, I
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 31
1 think it would -- I don't believe it could happen really.
2 145 Q. Can I ask you Mr. Egan, have you read Mr. Fulton's modestly
3 entitled book "Unsung Hero"?
4 A. I read sections of it, but not fully au fait with the full
5 lot of it.
6 146 Q. And from your experience of the troubles and subversion in
7 Northern Ireland, do you think it's a reliable account?
8 A. No. When I -- when I align that work with a small group of
9 other people who either were in the service of the security
10 forces in Northern Ireland or whether they were agents or
11 what not, and see the publications and the claims that they
12 are making in newspaper articles, you know, I personally I
13 am coming from a security field, I'd have very little faith
14 in them because they fail the first test in my book anyway,
15 in that information they gain from their activities were
16 never belonged to them, no more than they belonged to me,
17 what I gained as a member of the Garda Siochana, and so how
18 they come then to start disseminating it all over the place
19 afterwards, you know, I wouldn't rate that as credible at
20 all.
21 147 Q. In respect of Mr. Corrigan's kidnapping, I think you fairly
22 said you didn't investigate the circumstances of it
23 yourself, is that correct?
24 A. That's correct, yeah.
25 148 Q. And you weren't part of the Garda Siochana that interviewed
26 Mr. Corrigan on two occasions, isn't that so?
27 A. No, I am not no, no.
28 149 Q. And in fairness you said to Mr. McGuinness, that really
29 your assessment that it was an issue in respect of drink
30 was because that was the general talk and rumour at the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 32
1 time, is that right?
2 A. That's correct, yeah.
3 150 Q. And of course in part that could have been because
4 Mr. Corrigan owned a pub, wouldn't that be correct?
5 A. Well, you know, I'd have a broad open mind about all these
6 things. It would come into the equation, but you know, no
7 one thing would be swaying me towards conclusions I'd
8 reach.
9 151 Q. And just finally, Mr. Egan, it may be of some relevance to
10 the Tribunal in due course, and it may be something that
11 the Chairman feels would be appropriate to be heard in
12 public, but would you be prepared to tell the Tribunal
13 counsel about what Mr. Fulton asked you to investigate all
14 those years ago and, which I can understand, you don't wish
15 to air in public now?
16 A. I mean I'd be guided by what's the most helpful and
17 beneficial to the Tribunal, provided it doesn't compromise
18 State security or the security of individuals.
19
20 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Egan.
21
22 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. COFFEY AS FOLLOWS:
23
24 152 Q. MR. COFFEY: Mr. Egan, I appear for retired Sergeant Leo
25 Colton. I just want to ask one or two questions.
26 In the course of your direct evidence, you indicated that
27 there was a connection between the IRA activities and
28 smuggling along the border?
29 A. Yeah.
30 153 Q. If, in 1996, a then serving member of An Garda Siochana was
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 33
1 arrested and in the course of questioning made an alleged
2 statement or admission that in the 1980s, early 1990s, he,
3 together with other serving members, went to the border in
4 the early hours of the morning, met vans and took over
5 televisions and other contraband, would you expect that
6 alleged issue to have been investigated?
7 A. Oh without a doubt.
8 154 Q. It's a serious matter, isn't it?
9 A. It is, yeah.
10 155 Q. And you'd expect some records of such an allegation and any
11 subsequent investigation to be recorded in writing?
12 A. Yes, if it happened like that, yeah.
13 156 Q. Now, with regard to your direct evidence, I take it that
14 you'd confirm that you liaised with a wide cross section of
15 intelligence agencies in the course of your work?
16 A. I did, yeah.
17 157 Q. And did that include both the RUC, the then RUC and British
18 Army intelligence?
19 A. Not directly with British Army intelligence. You know,
20 that was done through the RUC.
21 158 Q. If the British Army intelligence had information or
22 evidence of a Garda mole, would you expect, in the normal
23 course, that the British Army intelligence would pass such
24 information on to their RUC counterparts?
25 A. Oh without a doubt, yeah.
26 159 Q. And in turn then, for the RUC to pass on that information
27 to you, or some Garda officer?
28 A. Yes, some officers in Headquarters, yeah.
29 160 Q. And again, in the course of your evidence you indicated
30 that you knew the late Eamon Collins to speak to?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 34
1 A. Mmm, I did, yeah.
2 161 Q. And was that before or after his arrest or indeed both?
3 A. Oh, it would be after his arrest. I met him in the context
4 of him arriving in Dublin on the day he arrived. He was
5 court martialled by the IRA and his sentence was that he
6 wasn't allowed pass beyond Drogheda any more and that's in
7 that context I met him, to give him advice on security and
8 what not.
9 162 Q. In answer to a question from Mr. O' Callaghan, you
10 indicated that there were a number of people who
11 exaggerated and indeed invented their involvement in the
12 so-called troubles?
13 A. Yeah.
14 163 Q. Do you recall that?
15 A. Yeah.
16 164 Q. Would you put Eamon Collins in that category or did you
17 believe his admissions as to his involvement in the IRA
18 campaign and indeed his involvement in the planning of
19 numerous murders of members of the security forces?
20 A. My assessment of Eamon Collins was that he joined the IRA
21 and became involved in them and was a key member of their
22 unit in south Armagh.
23 165 Q. And in particular in the area of intelligence gathering?
24 A. Well, he was a valuable source because of his employment
25 beforehand in the customs service.
26 166 Q. And you believe that?
27 A. I do, yeah.
28 167 Q. And did you, from your contact with him, did you think that
29 he had made a full confession and had come to terms with
30 his involvement in the IRA murder campaign?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 35
1 A. He wouldn't -- Eamon Collins wouldn't discuss in broad, or
2 you know in such specific terms, his involvement and all
3 that type of thing. You know, it was more an
4 acknowledgment, sometimes saying nothing but nodding his
5 head that he had been involved and he had gone through the
6 Court system and books of evidence were against him and
7 there was common knowledge out there about him and that he
8 -- I mean, his big problem was he was removed from joining
9 his family up in, up outside Newry and he couldn't venture
10 up to them, and my advice to him was that unfortunately,
11 he'd be foolish to do that.
12 168 Q. Would you accept that in his book he made a very
13 comprehensive and detailed admission of his involvement in
14 IRA activities?
15 A. Oh he did, yeah, yeah.
16 169 Q. And would you accept that in that book he doesn't make any
17 allegation of a Garda mole?
18 A. No, he never mentioned to me either, but I didn't see him
19 writing about it either, no.
20 170 Q. And would you expect that somebody such as Mr. Collins
21 claiming and admitting to such involvement over a prolonged
22 period in the 1980s in IRA activities, to have known or
23 been privy to any suggestion of a Garda mole or a Garda,
24 either both plain clothes or uniform, giving information to
25 the IRA?
26 A. I think the calibre of person that Eamon Collins was and
27 the type of activity that he was involved in undetected for
28 so long, he was a very shrewd individual and I would
29 imagine that he'd be a person that would be involved in,
30 you know, collating and discussing that type of activity,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 36
1 yeah.
2 MR. COFFEY: Thank you, Mr. Egan.
3
4 CHAIRMAN: Any questions?
5
6 MR. RAFFERTY: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
7
8 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. RAFFRTY AS FOLLOWS:
9
10 171 Q. MR. RAFFERTY: Mr. Egan, on behalf of Kevin Fulton I have a
11 few questions. Before we get to Kevin Fulton, in general
12 terms, would you agree with me, I think you have already
13 said for the IRA, intelligence was the life blood of
14 setting up operations?
15 A. Yes.
16 172 Q. And in relation to the gathering of intelligence, there was
17 an intelligence war fought for 30 odd years on the border,
18 isn't that correct?
19 A. Yes, I suppose.
20 173 Q. And the number of agencies involved between MI5, Special
21 Branch, British Army, RUC and An Garda Siochana and so
22 forth, there were so many agencies involved in that
23 intelligence war?
24 A. Yes, all those agencies had an interest, a legitimate legal
25 interest in it.
26 174 Q. And on the IRA side also, what you were trying to do to
27 them, they were trying to do to you; gather intelligence?
28 A. Yeah, that's true, yeah.
29 175 Q. And you would be sitting trying to think how we would get
30 somebody into the IRA as an agent and they'd be sitting
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 37
1 thinking how they could get somebody into An Garda Siochana
2 as an agent?
3 A. Yeah, but I mean you must remember you are working in the
4 context that An Garda Siochana is a legal entity and the
5 IRA was an illegal organisation.
6 176 Q. I am not disputing that --
7 A. So, how you went about your work was guided by legal
8 principles, not by the rule of --
9 177 Q. They don't have that legal principles, they don't have that
10 if I can use this phrase, that legal handicap?
11 A. Yeah.
12 178 Q. They can be much more, I suppose, aggressive in the way
13 they go about cultivating sources?
14 A. Yeah.
15 179 Q. I think regrettably you have indicated, at least on one
16 occasion you are aware of, a fellow called Denis Kelly fell
17 below the standards of a good Garda officer?
18 A. That's correct, yes.
19 180 Q. Can I ask you particularly in border areas, smuggling was
20 rife?
21 A. Yes, it was, yeah.
22 181 Q. And there was a lot of money washing about with smuggling?
23 A. Yeah, I think that's the accepted general view, yeah.
24 182 Q. And we take a look at South Armagh Brigade of the IRA, and
25 I think you'd probably agree with me that politically
26 motivated criminals would probably describe them best,
27 smuggling and political activity went hand in hand?
28 A. No, I mean I wouldn't use that type of language to describe
29 any person. Every person in my book has an identity of
30 their own and it's not for me to you know...
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 38
1 183 Q. Let's take it back to its basics. Would you agree with me
2 that the IRA in south Armagh were heavily involved in
3 smuggling?
4 A. Yeah, they may well have been -- people in the IRA may well
5 have been involved in smuggling. Whether the IRA were
6 heavily involved in smuggling, it's a perception that's out
7 there and put out there in high places. It's not a theory
8 that I would always agree with, subject to the analysis.
9 184 Q. Sorry, I was just asking you about your own
10 evidence-in-chief in relation to south Armagh.
11 A. Yeah, there was a lot of smuggling in south Armagh.
12 185 Q. And a lot of that smuggling was carried on by IRA members?
13 A. Exactly, but not -- there is a distinction that it was
14 being carried on by the IRA or IRA members. That's the
15 difference.
16 186 Q. Very well, if we keep the IRA out of it. South Armagh
17 Brigade may not have been the organiser of the smuggling
18 but senior members of that brigade would have been heavily
19 involved in smuggling?
20 A. Members of the IRA, yes, were involved in smuggling.
21 187 Q. Now, they just take their smugglers hat off and put their
22 IRA hat on. They are the same person, yes?
23 A. Well you see, you are getting into an area now that you
24 know, that's a long debate in theory because, you know, not
25 to confuse the Tribunal, but it is an accepted fact that
26 IRA people, in effect, are two people. They operate in a
27 normal way today here at twelve o'clock in the day and at
28 six o'clock in the evening, there is another side of them
29 can turn to the IRA. So, it's not a simple process of
30 designating one catch-all phrase to people in these
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 39
1 circumstances.
2 188 Q. All right. Well, would you accept, for example, that
3 somebody who was involved in smuggling and also an IRA man,
4 might possibly be interested in intelligence about patrols
5 and so-forth as well?
6 A. Yes.
7 189 Q. From both points of view?
8 A. He would, yeah.
9 190 Q. And from both points of view they might want an information
10 source such as CB radios and so-forth?
11 A. Yeah.
12 191 Q. And that those CB radios would be used for both smuggling
13 and for example, IRA operations?
14 A. Well, it could be. You couldn't rule out -- I mean the
15 IRA, as I say, were an illegal organisation. They couldn't
16 do a lot of things upfront so wherever they could get
17 succour and help, they weren't going to turn it down.
18 192 Q. That's wherever they could get succour and help they
19 weren't going to turn it down?
20 A. No.
21 193 Q. And in relation to, if I deal just with the CB radios, they
22 didn't actually talk on the CB radios. They used clicks
23 and beeps and whistles and -- what's understood to be
24 electronic noise?
25 A. Ah yeah, there is all sorts of things you can use with it,
26 yeah.
27 194 Q. Now, in relation, if I might move to -- I have dealt with
28 you about smuggling, were you aware of officers in and
29 around the Dundalk area being involved in smuggling?
30 A. No, no.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 40
1 195 Q. Subsequently, I think My Friend for An Garda Siochana asked
2 you about particularly Owen Corrigan, and you said you
3 wouldn't have believed it at the time but from what you
4 subsequently learn, and you seemed at that point to tail
5 off. What did you mean by that?
6 A. Sorry now, I am not -- I don't take your --
7 196 Q. Possibly I wasn't clear enough. In relation to Owen
8 Corrigan, you said that there was soft intelligence on him,
9 or it was put to you that there was soft intelligence on
10 him about smuggling. That was put to you, and you agreed
11 with it. And I'm asking you where that intelligence came
12 from?
13 A. No, I think you misinterpreted what I said.
14 197 Q. Did I?
15 A. Yeah.
16 198 Q. Could you explain it to me?
17 A. There is -- I mean, there has been talk and even here in
18 the Tribunal that he was involved in smuggling, that's the
19 type of thing. But I have no knowledge or no evidence that
20 he was.
21 199 Q. You have no specific intelligence?
22 A. No.
23 200 Q. Other than this gossip?
24 A. No, no.
25 201 Q. And other than possibly what the Tribunal have heard?
26 A. Yeah, yeah, and publications in the papers.
27 202 Q. Publications. So you have been following that in the
28 press, have you?
29 A. I have taken note of it, yeah.
30 203 Q. Very well. Can I come now to deal directly with Kevin
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 41
1 Fulton. You know him as Peter Keeley. When was your first
2 meeting, and I am sorry to press you on this, but when was
3 your first meeting with Peter Keeley?
4 A. I don't know. I don't recall the time. I just can't put a
5 date on it at this remove.
6 204 Q. You seemed to say that you didn't even speak to him?
7 A. No, I didn't.
8 205 Q. Where was that meeting?
9 A. Well this is going to lead now to other people that I don't
10 wish to discuss, so, I don't know...
11 206 Q. Can we do this in closed session, Mr. Chairman?
12 A. If necessary, yeah.
13 207 Q. Because I am going to have to cross-examine him about this.
14
15 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: I support My Friend's application
16 Chairman, because I find it interesting, and it would be
17 useful if this witness could speak about this in closed
18 session.
19
20 MR. RAFFERTY: I don't mind, there are two mechanisms I
21 suppose that we could use. One is I stop cross-examining
22 now and My Friend for the Tribunal interviews the witness,
23 finds out what it's about and we make an informed decision.
24 Or we move into a closed session with --
25
26 MR. HAYES: I think it would be preferable perhaps if the
27 latter course were the one adopted, that this witness be
28 cross-examined for the moment with matters that can be
29 dealt with in public and then if necessary, he can be
30 certainly re-interviewed and recalled to give further
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 42
1 evidence relating to other matters. But I think it might
2 be best if those were dealt with on another occasion, if
3 necessary.
4
5 CHAIRMAN: In closed session. Very well. What do you
6 think of that?
7
8 MR. RAFFERTY: I am content to be -- Your Honour's ruling
9 will satisfy me.
10
11 CHAIRMAN: I think that would be a proper course to take.
12 So, if we could move on from that point for the moment and
13 then if necessary, let the cross-examination that questions
14 which you are envisaging will be carried out in closed
15 session. Thank you.
16
17 MR. HAYES: I suppose, just to -- it may also become
18 thereafter apparent that it may not be necessary to conduct
19 the whole of it in closed session. That's a judgement that
20 can be made on the basis of better knowledge than I have
21 now.
22
23 CHAIRMAN: Yes, very good. Very well, any other questions
24 of the witness at the moment?
25
26 208 Q. MR. RAFFERTY: If I move on from that, in relation to Peter
27 Keeley, My Friend for Mr. Corrigan put to you did you know
28 him as a high up individual in the IRA. How did you know
29 Peter Keeley was involved in the IRA?
30 A. Well, that's what I have gathered from intelligence and my
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 43
1 contacts over a long number of years with the different
2 agencies. So, that's the opinion I formed.
3 209 Q. I don't think it's ever been suggested that he was a high
4 up member of the IRA, but certainly he was involved in the
5 IRA?
6 A. Well, he never came to my notice.
7 210 Q. He -- certainly, would you accept from me that he came to
8 the notice of the RUC?
9 A. Well I'm not aware of that.
10 211 Q. Well presumably that's the source you are getting your
11 information on Peter Keeley from. If he never came to your
12 knowledge, but your knowledge comes from other sources,
13 presumably that's the source it's coming from?
14 A. That would be from a wide range of sources, yeah.
15 212 Q. Why have you difficulty saying that yes my knowledge of
16 Peter Keeley being a subversive comes from the RUC?
17 A. Because that's not the full picture. I have a number of
18 sources that I discussed him with.
19 213 Q. Well, can you give us the full picture? That's why we are
20 here?
21 A. Well, the RUC would be included in them.
22 214 Q. MI5, would they have briefed you?
23 A. Yeah, they would, yeah.
24 215 Q. Would they have briefed you about their agents?
25 A. No. I don't have access to their agents.
26 216 Q. That's the unwritten rule of intelligence, you protect your
27 agents?
28 A. Yeah.
29 217 Q. They wouldn't have told you about Keeley as an agent, but
30 you think they told you about him as an IRA man?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 44
1 A. I would imagine so, yeah.
2 218 Q. The Special Branch, they would have told you about Keeley
3 as an IRA man, that would be another source?
4 A. Yeah, if at a given time it was relevant, yeah.
5 219 Q. You see, in and around the late 80s, early 90s, Peter
6 Keeley, as a matter of fact, as a matter of record, was
7 arrested under Section 14 of the Prevention of Terrorism
8 Act. Are you aware of that?
9 A. No, no.
10 220 Q. Do you accept that as a fact but?
11 A. If you say so, I've...
12 221 Q. I am going from the Ombudsman's Report in relation to --
13 A. I fully accept that.
14 222 Q. -- in relation to the Eoin Morley murder?
15 A. Yeah, okay.
16 223 Q. And do you accept that he was arrested as part of the
17 ongoing investigation into the Eoin Morley murder in or
18 about April 1990?
19 A. Yeah, if that's what happened, yes, I accept it.
20 224 Q. That's a matter of fact?
21 A. Yeah, okay.
22 225 Q. And again another matter of fact is that he was arrested
23 and questioned after an arms find in late April 1990 in
24 connection with the murder of Eoin Morley?
25 A. Right, okay.
26 226 Q. And this is an operation that the IRA claimed?
27 A. Mm-hmm.
28 227 Q. So, does it not follow, as a matter of fact, that he is an
29 operational IRA man in 1980, early 1990, Peter Keeley?
30 A. Are you telling me now, and I accept your word on it, there
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 45
1 is a clear distinction here, was he arrested or was he
2 charged?
3 228 Q. He was arrested and questioned in connection with that
4 murder?
5 A. But not charged.
6 229 Q. Not charged.
7 A. No, so where is the evidence then that he was in the IRA.
8 230 Q. Well, suspected. They don't go around arresting people
9 without evidence, do they?
10 A. They arrest them to investigate crime and if there is, if
11 the proof isn't there, then I think the person is entitled
12 to their good name.
13 231 Q. Have you any difficulty in accepting that Peter Keeley was
14 a subversive, he was in the IRA?
15 A. I have no difficulty whatsoever if he was in the IRA. He
16 was in an illegal organisation if that's the case and he
17 should have been charged and brought before the Courts.
18 232 Q. And do you base that acceptance upon intelligence gleaned
19 from various sources?
20 A. Well, I am basing it on what you tell me.
21 233 Q. No, I think I asked you about your sources and you
22 indicated Special Branch, MI5, RUC, all would have briefed
23 you and that's where your knowledge of Peter Keeley came
24 from?
25 A. Yeah, that's fine, yeah.
26 234 Q. I mean, do you find difficulty with that?
27 A. None whatsoever, no.
28
29 MR. RAFFERTY: Thank you, I'll rest there if it pleases,
30 Mr. Chairman, until we find out about the other matter.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 46
1
2 CHAIRMAN: Yes, very good. Thank you. Any other questions
3 from any party? Very good.
4
5 Thank you very much, Mr. Egan. It would appear that you'll
6 be needed again but thank you very much for coming here
7 today. It's much appreciated.
8
9 THE WITNESS THEN WITHDREW.
10
11 MR. HAYES: Thank you very much, Mr. Egan.
12
13 Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Laverty is taking the next witness I
14 believe to be Sean O'Connell. 15
16
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20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 47
1 SEAN O'CONNELL, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED BY MRS.
2 LAVERTY AS FOLLOWS:
3
4 235 Q. MRS. LAVERTY: Mr. O'Connell, I am Mary Laverty, counsel
5 for the Tribunal, and I think that you had a long and
6 distinguished career in the Garda Siochana, is that
7 correct?
8 A. It was long. Distinguished, I am not sure.
9 236 Q. I think you joined the force in 1955?
10 A. That's correct.
11 237 Q. And you told us that you served in uniform in Kevin Street
12 until 1958, when you were transferred to Special Branch in
13 Dublin Castle, and in 1968 you told us you were promoted to
14 Detective Sergeant and sent to Tralee, is that right?
15 A. That's correct.
16 238 Q. And in 1981 you were promoted to Detective Inspector and
17 sent to Shannon until 1985 when you were transferred to
18 Harcourt Square?
19 A. That's correct.
20 239 Q. And I think you stayed there until October 1989 when you
21 retired?
22 A. That's correct.
23 240 Q. Now, I think that during the course of your career you had
24 a lot of experience in dealing with subversives?
25 A. Yes, that's correct.
26 241 Q. And I take it that when you are dealing with information
27 that comes in and you are collating information that you
28 get from various sources, I think that you have to make a
29 judgement call on a case by case basis, would that be
30 correct?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 48
1 A. That would be correct.
2 242 Q. And that would be in relation to how valuable the
3 information is, whether it's soft intelligence, as has been
4 referred to in questioning the previous witness, or hard
5 intelligence, I suppose?
6 A. Yes.
7 243 Q. And that comes from experience I take it?
8 A. Yes.
9 244 Q. Do you -- did you travel at all to the border at any stage?
10 Were you working -- did you work near the border?
11 A. Just once, when I went back to Harcourt Square from
12 Shannon, the Task Force were still sending people on a
13 monthly basis and I went up -- I led a Task Force up there,
14 yeah.
15 245 Q. And what did you have to do when you got there?
16 A. Well, what we did was we met the local people. Usually
17 they would have something organised, some searches, maybe
18 searches of fields, searches of property, or particular
19 jobs that they wanted to do, we would assist them in
20 whatever they wanted to do.
21 246 Q. Why would they require your assistance in -- was it every
22 instance or only in certain instances?
23 A. The Task Force went up every month, and they simply -- if
24 there was nothing specific to do, we would patrol the
25 highways and byways up around the border, or if they, if
26 the local men asked us to do something in particular, we
27 would back them up. They would -- they usually knew their
28 stuff and they knew their people and they knew the ground.
29 We would simply go with them and protect.
30 247 Q. So presumably if they had searches, big searches to carry
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 49
1 out, they would presumably do it with your assistance?
2 A. Yes.
3 248 Q. And you think that that was on a monthly basis, the Task
4 Force went?
5 A. Yes, that's my memory of it.
6 249 Q. Would it be unusual to exclude the local Garda station from
7 a search like that?
8 A. It would be very unusual because they were the men in
9 possession, and they were the people who knew the area. It
10 would be very strange for that to happen. We would usually
11 go up and it was always a very friendly thing. We would
12 meet the local people and talk to them and say is there
13 anything in particular and sometimes they of would have
14 something for us to do.
15 250 Q. Yes, because there will be evidence quite shortly from an
16 ex member of the RUC who will say that on at least three
17 occasions, he got intelligence leading to searches and the
18 source of the intelligence warned that the Dundalk Garda
19 Station was to be avoided and the Task Force should be
20 solely involved in the search. He will be giving that
21 evidence and I'm just wondering would you have a view on
22 that?
23 A. That sounds like what would happen. That's my view on it.
24 251 Q. So whereas it would be unusual, it could happen?
25 A. I suppose it could. It didn't happen with me or the people
26 I went up with.
27 252 Q. I see. Now, in relation to the whole process of security,
28 were you happy with the way intelligence was guarded or the
29 way that information was passed within the Force?
30 A. Personally, I was never very happy with the security of
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 50
1 information within the Force. I always felt that there was
2 too much loose talk. It was a bugbear of my own and it
3 wasn't a deliberate treacherous kind of a thing. It was
4 just talk. Silly talk or fellas -- that's all it was
5 really, was sometimes stupid talk but nothing deliberate.
6 At least I never experienced anyone doing things
7 deliberately to...
8 253 Q. And I think, it's already been stated, the IRA were
9 extremely good at collecting intelligence, and we
10 understand that they would pick the smallest little things
11 and put them together and therefore, that careless talk
12 would be the sort of thing that would be picked up by
13 people with IRA sympathies and passed on for collation,
14 would that be right?
15 A. Yes.
16 254 Q. For example, to take an example, if in a garda station, for
17 example, I presume that if somebody was sent to get the
18 good China out to make the tea, that in itself would
19 indicate to people around that they were going to have
20 important visitors?
21 A. Yeah, except that we didn't have very good China in the
22 Garda station.
23 255 Q. We don't have here either, Mr. O'Connell. But I think it
24 was little -- am I correct in thinking that it was little
25 things like that would be picked up and passed on and then
26 somebody --
27 A. Yes.
28 256 Q. Somebody else would collate that information?
29 A. Yes.
30 257 Q. And see the big picture?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 51
1 A. Yes, that's it more or less.
2 258 Q. And would you feel that that sort of loose talk generally,
3 careless or bragging or whatever else, was getting into the
4 wrong hands, or had the potential of getting into the wrong
5 hands?
6 A. Yes.
7 259 Q. Now, do you recall the murders of Breen and Buchanan?
8 A. I do.
9 260 Q. And where were you stationed at the time?
10 A. I was in Harcourt Square, but I was within a few months of
11 retiring. I retired later the same year.
12 261 Q. And what was the feeling amongst your colleagues in
13 Harcourt Square at the time, vis-a-vis the press coverage?
14 A. Press coverage, I don't recall much about the press
15 coverage. But about the, about those murders, we seemed --
16 the general impression was that the IRA must have known
17 something or someone must have tipped them off. It was
18 hard to go away from that conclusion really. But, on the
19 other hand, there is nothing -- there is no hard evidence,
20 or we had no hard evidence. It was just, it's just what we
21 were saying to each other when we were working.
22 262 Q. So how did you view the operation itself? Do you recall
23 the detail of the operation, the IRA operation?
24 A. I remember reading it and reading about it and it was hard
25 to -- it was hard not to consider that there was a tip-off
26 in it, but as I say once again, first of all we weren't
27 working up there, we didn't know any of the inside story at
28 all. But, it was very natural that we should -- it was
29 natural that we all thought there must have been some sort
30 of a tip-off, but that's not evidence.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 52
1 263 Q. No, but that was a feeling. Presumably you discussed this
2 at your level in Harcourt Street?
3 A. I beg your pardon.
4 264 Q. You were discussing it amongst yourselves?
5 A. Amongst ourselves, yes.
6 265 Q. And what did you know about Dundalk Station as an officer
7 who was dealing with subversives and intelligence
8 gathering? What did you know about Dundalk Station?
9 A. I had no personal experience of Dundalk, but the general --
10 we were -- the general opinion of Dundalk, this is as we
11 observed it from working over the years, was that it was,
12 there was something dodgy going on there. We often talked
13 about it, well not often, but whenever work would be sent
14 up there.
15 266 Q. Was this a perception of the station in general, a
16 perception of the station and all the members in it?
17 A. No, we knew they were as good policemen as they would be
18 anywhere in Ireland. It was -- there was a name that kept
19 cropping up over the years and --
20 267 Q. And who was that?
21 A. I can't think of his name, but he was mentioned here
22 already today.
23 268 Q. I don't want to give it to you in case --
24 A. No, I --
25 269 Q. Let's move on, you'll remember it in a minute. So there
26 was one particular person's name mentioned?
27 A. Yes.
28 270 Q. And --
29 A. Corrigan.
30 271 Q. Mr. Corrigan's name was mentioned?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 53
1 A. Yes, Owen Corrigan.
2 272 Q. And in what context did his name keep coming up?
3 A. There was never anything specific, but dodgy was the word
4 most often used about him and that was it.
5 273 Q. Did you ever meet Owen Corrigan?
6 A. Not -- as far as I know, no, I have no idea what he looks
7 like or anything about him.
8 274 Q. And what does the word 'dodgy' convey to you?
9 A. Untrustworthy, be careful if you are dealing with him, and
10 very careful like. That's about it.
11 275 Q. Are you suggesting that he was a security risk?
12 A. That's the way I thought about it and anyone I talked about
13 it, they would -- we didn't spend all our time talking
14 about Owen Corrigan or Dundalk. But when we would, there
15 would be always a caveat.
16 276 Q. How would that information have come to you in Harcourt
17 Street?
18 A. Well, I never saw it written down anywhere. It would
19 simply be fellas going up working, some of them working in
20 Dundalk maybe and coming back, and they -- some of the
21 people in Dundalk, the Dundalk Station party, they must
22 have felt the same way about him if we could feel like that
23 down in Dublin.
24 277 Q. A lot of members from Dundalk have given evidence, a lot of
25 them spoke very highly of Mr. Corrigan. Others
26 differentiated between perhaps maybe certain character
27 weaknesses but were emphatic that he wasn't a security
28 threat. Now, it would appear from your evidence that that
29 was not the feeling that the people in the station were
30 passing on to your colleagues in Harcourt Street?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 54
1 A. You mean the people in Dundalk?
2 278 Q. Yes.
3 A. This is just my opinion.
4 279 Q. Yes.
5 A. If I had been in Dundalk and there was someone like him, I
6 would have been very cautious about loads of things, but
7 this is without any evidence.
8 280 Q. Of course. Well it's the function of the Tribunal, Mr.
9 O'Connell, to look at every rumour concerning parties who
10 have been mentioned in this Tribunal and to see whether
11 there is a basis for them or whether there is no basis
12 whatsoever.
13 So, are you differentiating between a dodgy character and a
14 security risk?
15 A. Yes, but if you have someone in a sensitive border area, a
16 sensitive place, when does a security risk become just, is
17 he dodgy here and then not dodgy with security? It's
18 simply easier to avoid dealing with him, I would imagine.
19 281 Q. And whose job is it to investigate into these matters?
20 A. I would have imagined someone at a very, at a high level in
21 the Garda Siochana. It's one of the worst things you can
22 imagine is someone betraying you and your colleagues and
23 the State and in this particular area of --
24 282 Q. And presumably if this rumour got from Dundalk to Harcourt
25 Street, it obviously would have gone higher because I
26 presume, like every other organisation, people talk?
27 A. Yes. I was surprised actually because I seem to hear about
28 him and then a long time later, maybe years later, he is
29 still there, so maybe he wasn't a bad guy after all, maybe
30 he was okay, but that's just the way it came to us.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 55
1 283 Q. So, you retired in 1989. You have mentioned now that it
2 was years before that you would have heard about Owen
3 Corrigan. When do you think you heard about him in this,
4 if you like, derogatory, by way of derogatory reference,
5 how many years before that?
6 A. I am unable to name it. It seemed a long time to me. I
7 was -- I think I was still working in Tralee. I have to go
8 by where I was working --
9 284 Q. And that would be -- you were sent to Tralee in 1968 and
10 you were there until 1981?
11 A. '81, yeah and I think I was aware of it when I was in
12 Tralee in '81. I think, but I'm not absolutely certain.
13 285 Q. Did you hear anyone else's name circulated with regards to
14 the concerns you have just expressed?
15 A. No. I never heard a name of anyone, any Garda who did it,
16 who did this or anything like it.
17 286 Q. So this would have been a most unusual rumour to be
18 circulating around about a member of the Force for such a
19 long time?
20 A. Yes. You would be surprised that he would be there after a
21 long time, if people -- if his reputation was bad and ten
22 years later maybe he is still there and, it would make you
23 wonder.
24 287 Q. If you were aware of this, about somebody in Dundalk, when
25 you were working in Tralee and you were aware that
26 somebody's reputation was bad when you were in Dublin, and
27 I think you have agreed with me that possibly people in a
28 higher position than yourself must have heard the rumours
29 as well?
30 A. They would have to, I imagine. I'm not saying they all
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 56
1 did, but someone must have.
2 288 Q. Did these rumours reach Mr. Corrigan's ears?
3 A. Sorry?
4 289 Q. Would Mr. Corrigan get to hear about the stories going
5 around about him?
6 A. I am sure he would.
7 290 Q. And how would that happen? Just in conversation with his
8 peers or...
9 A. Yes, as I say I don't know him. I never met him.
10 291 Q. I understand that.
11 A. But I would imagine that he would hear it from people or
12 maybe he might have got into a little bit of trouble now
13 and again or something or he might be aware that his
14 reputation wasn't so good.
15 292 Q. What steps could Mr. Corrigan take in the event that all of
16 this -- in the event that his reputation was being
17 seriously compromised by these rumours and nobody was doing
18 anything to stop it if they were untrue, what sort of steps
19 could he take as a member of the Force, or indeed could you
20 have taken if something similar circulated about you?
21 A. Well he would report immediately that you were being
22 wrongly accused of various things and you could ask for it
23 to be investigated.
24 293 Q. And an investigation would take place as a result of your
25 own application?
26 A. Absolutely, yes.
27 294 Q. And nothing appears -- Mr. Corrigan certainly didn't ask
28 for an investigation, and the Tribunal has no knowledge
29 that he was ever aware of the stories going around about
30 his reputation. But what steps should the members,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 57
1 superior members of the Garda Siochana have taken to sort
2 this situation out one way or the other?
3 A. There was a situation like that I think in Limerick where
4 they set a trap for a man, a member. Now, once again this
5 is the outline of what happened.
6 295 Q. Yes.
7 A. And they laid a trap for, and they caught a fellow who was
8 -- he was giving information to the IRA.
9 296 Q. And I think he was convicted and sentenced?
10 A. He was convicted and sentenced, yes, so the same thing
11 could have been done.
12 297 Q. Now, what could the authorities have done to test the
13 information about Mr. Corrigan?
14 A. Well, they could have decided that they had a bit of
15 information and they would let only maybe two or three
16 people know this and tell them to be careful with this
17 because -- you could say. Then only three people know
18 something. The IRA act on his information, giving them
19 this false information which he thinks is true of course,
20 and then you know you have your man. There may be more
21 sophisticated ways of finding out stuff but that's --
22 298 Q. Keeping it at the most simplest?
23 A. Yeah.
24 299 Q. Tom Connolly, did you know Tom Connolly?
25 A. I am not sure it's the same Tom Connolly that I know. I do
26 know a Tom Connolly. We joined on the same day. That's if
27 it's --
28 300 Q. He was an investigator I think like yourself?
29 A. Yes.
30 301 Q. Well anyway, Mr. Connolly, who ended up going to Dundalk in
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 58
1 September 1988 as a Superintendent, a Border
2 Superintendent, Mr. Connolly had heard in Harcourt Square
3 that there was a problem in Dundalk, he said in evidence to
4 the Tribunal, sometime before he went to Dundalk, so that I
5 think that was around the same time that you were certainly
6 about to retire from there, is that correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 302 Q. Around 1988, 1989. And we had other evidence from
9 Superintendent Tom Curran, who was based in Monaghan, did
10 you know Mr. Curran?
11 A. Yes, I knew Tom Curran.
12 303 Q. And how would you have met Mr. Curran?
13 A. At some stage many years ago we met in the course of work,
14 I can't remember what it was about, and then I met him
15 afterwards in Headquarters.
16 304 Q. I think he was quite active?
17 A. He was active and good, very good.
18 305 Q. And Mr. Curran has given evidence that sometime in 1987 he
19 was approached by Border Superintendent Bob Buchanan, whom
20 he was quite friendly with and had a good relationship
21 with, and Bob Buchanan asked Mr. Curran to talk to the
22 Commissioner, or bring to the attention of the Commissioner
23 the fact that Bob Buchanan had concerns about Owen Corrigan
24 and for various reasons, and wished that he be moved from
25 the border. Mr. Curran said that he gave -- travelled to
26 Dublin, gave that information to the Assistant Commissioner
27 of Crime and Security, who was Mr. Crowley at the time, and
28 as far as he was concerned that was as much as he could do.
29 Now, do you have any views on how unusual a step this was?
30 A. I would have regarded this as a really loud alarm bell for
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 59
1 the Commissioner that got that information and it's
2 astonishing that nothing appears to have been done about
3 it. I mean, it was a major blunder to say the least that
4 something wouldn't be done with that kind of information.
5 And at that level and that Tom Curran travelled -- you
6 don't just go up everyday and talk to someone unless you
7 have something to talk about, something serious. That's my
8 opinion about that.
9 306 Q. Now, did you know anything about -- did you ever come
10 across Sergeant Leo Colton?
11 A. No, never.
12 307 Q. And did you ever come across Sergeant Finbarr Hickey?
13 A. It means nothing, the name.
14 308 Q. It means nothing?
15 A. No.
16
17 MRS. LAVERTY: Thank you very much, Mr. O'Connell. You
18 know that you will have to re-attend at some stage for the
19 rest of your evidence.
20 A. Yes.
21
22 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. McGUINNESS AS
23 FOLLOWS:
24
25 309 Q. MR. McGUINNESS: Morning, Mr. O'Connell, my name is
26 Diarmuid McGuinness, I appear for An Garda Siochana. Just
27 in relation to your duty with the Task Force, you only went
28 to the border once with the Task Force?
29 A. Yes.
30 310 Q. And correct me if I am wrong, but part of the reason why
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 60
1 the Task Force would go to the border was, in the main,
2 because of a necessity to provide reinforcements?
3 A. Yes.
4 311 Q. Because of shortage of members to do border duty at the
5 time?
6 A. Yes, being one of the reasons.
7 312 Q. And members of the Task Force, they had different training
8 and more specialist training than ordinary members?
9 A. Yes.
10 313 Q. And more training than detective members or Detective
11 Sergeants?
12 A. They would all have been detectives and they would be
13 specially trained in, yeah, in other ways.
14 314 Q. And the Task Force was a predecessor or the fore runner of
15 the ERU as it turned out?
16 A. Yes.
17 315 Q. And it wasn't necessarily the case that the Task Force was
18 called to do duty to the border that ordinary detectives
19 couldn't do?
20 A. They were -- in my opinion, they were there for a specific
21 purpose which was, an armed response unit plus they were a
22 really good bunch of people and they were fit for anything,
23 and I mean legal.
24 316 Q. Yes, but in distinction to members, ordinary members who
25 were stationed along the border in different garda
26 stations, the Task Force were all armed?
27 A. Yes.
28 317 Q. And trained in the use of arms?
29 A. Yes.
30 318 Q. And had access to arms that ordinary members didn't have?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 61
1 A. Yes, well detectives working up there would have all been
2 armed.
3 319 Q. The detectives of course had access to arms. But the Task
4 Force were able to supplement the number of detectives
5 along the border?
6 A. Yes, absolutely.
7 320 Q. Now, your experience and your knowledge of the operations
8 of the Task Force, as I understand it, were that local
9 members weren't excluded but in fact they were generally
10 included in operations?
11 A. Yes.
12 321 Q. Now, in terms of your evidence about the IRA intelligence
13 capability, they would often, as you say, pick up pieces of
14 information and put it all together to try and assess how
15 the guards were combatting their activities?
16 A. Yes.
17 322 Q. And when you were in Harcourt Square, you would have been
18 privy to a lot of intelligence that the Gardaí had about
19 the IRA, in general terms?
20 A. In general terms, yes.
21 323 Q. Now, when Mrs. Laverty asked you about the murders in
22 question here, obviously there was a possibility that
23 someone must have tipped off the IRA?
24 A. That was -- it was actually the first thing would come into
25 your head, you start looking for why was this done so
26 precisely, etc.
27 324 Q. And when you are talking about a tip-off, are you talking
28 about the fact that someone must have tipped off the IRA
29 about the presence of the RUC men on their way to Dundalk
30 or of their presence in Dundalk or on their way back from
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 62
1 Dundalk?
2 A. Yes.
3 325 Q. And you are not specifically restricting it to a Garda
4 tip-off by any means?
5 A. No, it was very precise and I'm not restricting it to a
6 Garda tip-off.
7 326 Q. Yes. And you are therefore including the possibility that
8 the IRA could have learnt of their intended trip from
9 sources within Northern Ireland?
10 A. Yes.
11 327 Q. Or from seeing them en route?
12 A. That's possible, although that would be -- that one would
13 be chancy, seeing them en route. You'd have to get your
14 ambush party into cover very quickly and all that.
15 328 Q. And another possibility obviously is from prior
16 surveillance of the frequency of visits or the movements of
17 the Superintendents?
18 A. Yes.
19 329 Q. And in terms of your sort of opinion about Dundalk about
20 something dodgy going on there, you are not saying that it
21 was the official view in Harcourt Square that there was an
22 IRA mole in Dundalk Garda Station?
23 A. I don't think it was the official view. I never knew what
24 the official view was of Dundalk.
25 330 Q. But just to clarify, you are not saying that it was your
26 view that there was an IRA mole in Dundalk Garda Station?
27 A. I would have considered it a possibility and --
28 331 Q. Of course.
29 A. And it could be the cleaner or it could be someone living
30 across the road from the station. It could be anything
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 63
1 like that.
2 332 Q. But in terms of your opinion and what your view is you
3 obviously have regard to all the possibilities?
4 A. Yes.
5 333 Q. And I take it you have no information or evidence that
6 there was a Garda mole in --
7 A. No --
8 334 Q. -- for the IRA in Dundalk?
9 A. I don't think there is any evidence. Nothing hard anyway.
10 Just suspicion.
11
12 CHAIRMAN: Mr. McGuinness. It's just one o'clock. Unless
13 your cross-examination is going to, you know, end in a
14 minute or two, you might wish to continue after lunch.
15
16 MR. McGUINNESS: I am happy to leave it over, Chairman. I
17 am sorry, I didn't realise.
18
19 CHAIRMAN: Not at all, but I think it's sensible to leave
20 it until two o'clock then please, ladies and gentlemen.
21
22 THE TRIBUNAL ADJOURNED FOR LUNCH. 23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 64
1 THE TRIBUNAL CONTINUED AFTER LUNCH AS FOLLOWS:
2
3 CONTINUATION OF CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MR. O'CONNELL BY
4 MR. McGUINNESS AS FOLLOWS:
5
6 335 Q. MR. McGUINNESS: Good afternoon, Mr. O'Connell. Can I just
7 ask you about a portion of your evidence this morning? You
8 were saying that one name was mentioned in Harcourt Square
9 in connection with Dundalk, Mr. Corrigan's name?
10 A. Yes.
11 336 Q. Now, you have never met Mr. Corrigan, as I understand it
12 it?
13 A. No.
14 337 Q. Was that in relation to any specific happening or event?
15 A. No, the time I'm talking about is nothing specific at all,
16 just general conversation.
17 338 Q. So it didn't relate to any particular event of any nature
18 connected with his duties, that you knew about?
19 A. Well the general thing, it was of dodgy behaviour. Whether
20 you call that, whether you would say that relates to the
21 job, I think it probably does.
22 339 Q. But I'm trying to pin down this issue: did it relate to
23 any event at all in which he'd been involved in in his duty
24 as a member?
25 A. No, not that I remember. No, I don't remember anything
26 like that.
27 340 Q. Just to be clear, to differentiate between his general
28 reputation, it wasn't being said, was it, that he was
29 colluding with the IRA?
30 A. That's -- no one said that.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 65
1 341 Q. And that wasn't the implication of it that he was colluding
2 with the IRA?
3 A. It's hard to say. It depends on the way something would be
4 said, but if there was someone, an untrustworthy person,
5 well you would include everything in it, everything of that
6 nature.
7 342 Q. But just to be clear, this wasn't obviously in any report
8 that either came to you or that you sent up the line to
9 anyone?
10 A. No, nothing.
11 343 Q. And it didn't relate any event about which you knew
12 anything?
13 A. No.
14 344 Q. And in terms of collusion with subversives, you didn't in
15 fact equate it at the time with Mr. Corrigan colluding with
16 subversives, isn't that right? You haven't so stated.
17 A. No, I didn't say it. I couldn't. It was general suspicion
18 but there was nothing specific at all.
19 345 Q. And, as I understand it, it certainly didn't lead you to
20 conclude that he was an officer who had betrayed fellow
21 officers or would betray them in such a way as to lead to
22 their death?
23 A. No, there was nothing as definite as that at all. It was
24 merely a gernalised thing.
25 346 Q. I mean no information, no evidence to suggest that?
26 A. No.
27 347 Q. And may the Tribunal take it that you in fact didn't do
28 anything in terms of initiating any form of report or
29 surveillance or matter like that?
30 A. No, there was nothing on which you could base a report
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 66
1 except to say that the lads were talking and we thought,
2 etc, that's all it was.
3 348 Q. In any event, you didn't communicate it up the line whether
4 in writing or otherwise or discuss doing anything about it?
5 A. No.
6 349 Q. And Mrs. Laverty then was asking you whether Sergeant
7 Corrigan would be likely to hear of this talk about him and
8 you thought he probably would?
9 A. Yes.
10 350 Q. But she then asked you about a possible way it could be
11 investigated that a member would ask for something about
12 himself to be investigated. Did you ever hear of that
13 being done in the Force?
14 A. No, but they did -- I don't know how they set the trap for
15 the chap in Limerick who was found out but, I was just
16 suggesting if there was three people knew a secret and they
17 just let someone know, someone they were trying to entrap,
18 or find out more about him anyway, that's the way it would
19 be. I would imagine, but there are probably much better
20 ways.
21 351 Q. All right, I understand. Were you involved in the Dennis
22 Kelly investigation?
23 A. No.
24 352 Q. You wouldn't be privy, therefore, to the basis upon which
25 he was in fact suspected of passing information?
26 A. No, I never heard the details.
27 353 Q. But obviously you'd conclude there was indeed a factual
28 basis for suspecting him of passing, which was investigated
29 and proven to be true?
30 A. Yes.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 67
1 354 Q. In terms of Sergeant Corrigan's dealings with the
2 intelligence that he may have gleaned while a member, did
3 you have any knowledge or general awareness of that at any
4 stage?
5 A. No, none.
6 355 Q. Did you know former Detective Sergeant Gethins?
7 A. No, I don't think I ever met him. I heard the name all
8 right.
9 356 Q. He said in his statement to the Tribunal that Mr. Corrigan
10 became involved in the investigation of the abduction and
11 murder of Captain Nairac in Armagh in 1975 or 1976. Were
12 you aware of that?
13 A. No, I knew nothing about that.
14 357 Q. And that he became friendly through that investigation with
15 Brian Fitzsimons, who became head of Special Branch in the
16 North, and he was friendkt with Mr. Fitzsimons, did you
17 know anything about that?
18 A. No, nothing.
19 358 Q. We've had that confirmed by Witness 27, an Assistant Chief
20 Constable who knew Mr. Corrigan himself also. You weren't
21 privy, therefore, to any of the, as it were, successes of
22 Sergeant Corrigan in his career?
23 A. No.
24 359 Q. Mrs. Laverty was asking you about how authorities would
25 deal with someone who was perceived as having a reputation,
26 and did you become aware that Superintendent Tierney
27 investigated breaches of discipline against Sergeant
28 Corrigan at any stage?
29 A. No, I knew nothing. I never heard that.
30 360 Q. Were you aware, in tandem with that, that Superintendent
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 68
1 Connolly had taken a view, in the interest of the service,
2 that Sergeant Corrigan should be transferred out of
3 Dundalk?
4 A. I didn't know that.
5 361 Q. Would you agree with me that the transfer of a member out
6 of a division, for perhaps a variety of reasons, can be an
7 appropriate way of dealing with any concerns concerning
8 their effectiveness in the division?
9 A. Well it would reduce the risk, to say the least, if they
10 moved them somewhere else.
11 362 Q. And did you know it was proposed to move Sergeant Corrigan
12 down to Harcourt Square?
13 A. No, I didn't know that.
14 363 Q. And that an order was made and confirmed, following a
15 review by the review body, that he should be so
16 transferred?
17 A. I didn't know any of that, no.
18 364 Q. Would that indicate that from the point of view of the
19 Commissioner and the Force, that appropriate steps were
20 taken in the interest of the service in relation to
21 Sergeant Corrigan?
22 A. If they did that, if they shifted him out somewhere else
23 and without an apparent reason that would look as if they
24 were doing something about the situation.
25 365 Q. And presumably you weren't aware of any allegation at that
26 point in time that had been made about Sergeant Corrigan by
27 the RUC?
28 A. No, I wasn't aware of that.
29 366 Q. Were you aware whether they had ever made an allegation
30 prior to 1989 in relation to the alleged collusion by any
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 69
1 member of the gardaí?
2 A. I wasn't aware of that.
3 367 Q. So, would you agree with me that you in your evidence this
4 morning sort of classified it as a major blunder by the
5 Commissioner if nothing was done about Sergeant Corrigan,
6 but if these steps were being taken in relation to both
7 discipline and transfer, would you regard those as
8 appropriate?
9 A. I would regard it as a start and something I didn't know
10 that they had actually done that.
11 368 Q. Right. So your opinion was expressed without knowing that
12 as such?
13 A. Yes, that would be safe to say.
14
15 MR. McGUINNESS: Thank you.
16
17 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN AS
18 FOLLOWS:
19
20 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Good afternoon, Mr. O'Connell, I appear
21 for Mr. Corrigan.
22 369 Q. Can I start by asking you, Mr. O'Connell, I presume you're
23 aware of the purpose of this Tribunal in that it's
24 investigating whether any members of An Garda Síochána
25 colluded with the IRA in the killing of the two unfortunate
26 RUC officers?
27 A. Yes.
28 370 Q. You're aware of that. Would you agree with me that you
29 couldn't make a more serious allegation against a member of
30 An Garda Síochána --
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 70
1 A. Yes.
2 371 Q. -- than that he colluded in the killing of an officer from
3 the RUC or indeed the Garda Síochána?
4 A. Yes.
5 372 Q. And it is an allegation of the utmost seriousness, isn't
6 that so?
7 A. Yes.
8 373 Q. And would you agree with me that any guard against whom
9 this was suggested is perfectly entitled to defend himself
10 and seek to vindicate his good name before this Tribunal?
11 A. Yes, of course.
12 374 Q. Just in that context, I want to ask you some specific
13 questions, Mr. O'Connell, and I'd like to get your answer
14 on them. First, are you suggesting Mr. Corrigan colluded
15 with the IRA in the killing of these two RUC officers?
16 A. I'm not suggesting any such thing. I don't know who --
17 375 Q. Do you have any evidence to proffer to the Chairman that
18 Mr. Corrigan colluded in the killing of the two RUC
19 officers?
20 A. None whatever, no. It is talk.
21 376 Q. Are you suggesting that Mr. Corrigan colluded with the IRA
22 on other occasions to give them sensitive information?
23 A. I don't know whether he did or not, but I'm certainly not
24 suggesting it.
25 377 Q. Okay, you are not suggesting it. Do you have any evidence
26 that he did so on previous occasions?
27 A. No, none.
28 378 Q. Can I ask you are you suggesting that Mr. Corrigan betrayed
29 his colleagues in the Garda Síochána or in the Royal Ulster
30 Constabulary on any occasion?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 71
1 A. I'm not suggesting any such thing.
2 379 Q. Do you have any evidence suggesting that?
3 A. None.
4 380 Q. Am I correct in stating, Mr. O'Connell, that in fact your
5 evidence is not that Owen Corrigan was dodgy, but rather
6 you heard rumours and talk that he was dodgy?
7 A. That would be a fair summation; it was rumour and talk.
8 381 Q. So you never met Mr. Corrigan?
9 A. No I didn't, as far as I know.
10 382 Q. You know nothing about his disciplinary record or anything
11 like that?
12 A. No, only what I read and heard about him.
13 383 Q. So, in effect, all you are doing is you're telling the
14 Chairman during your time in Harcourt Square you heard some
15 gossip and rumours that Owen Corrigan was, to use your
16 word, "dodgy"?
17 A. Yes, except it wasn't just in Harcourt Square. It was in
18 years previous to that and all it was was talk.
19 384 Q. All it was was talk?
20 A. Yeah.
21 385 Q. Would you agree with me that there was, in effect,
22 unsubstantiated rumours about Owen Corrigan?
23 A. Yes.
24 386 Q. You weren't here for, and I can understand this,
25 Mr. O'Connell, you weren't here for other members of An
26 Garda Síochána who worked with Owen Corrigan during those
27 very difficult years in Dundalk, isn't that correct?
28 A. No, I wasn't here.
29 387 Q. Very many of them said that Owen Corrigan fought
30 strenuously against the Provisional IRA and he stood up to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 72
1 the Provisional IRA. You have absolutely no evidence to
2 contradict their evidence, isn't that so?
3 A. No.
4 388 Q. And can I ask you, when you heard rumours that there was
5 this guard who was dodgy, did you inquiry of the people who
6 were saying it as to, well in what way was he dodgy?
7 A. At the time I would say I probably did, I may not have got
8 a direct answer because it was just talk.
9 389 Q. But what was the basis, and the Chairman is entitled to
10 know this, what was the basis for the talk that Owen
11 Corrigan was dodgy?
12 A. Sorry, could you repeat that?
13 390 Q. Yeah, like if somebody describes an individual as dodgy,
14 they presumably have to substantiate it in some way and say
15 "oh he's dodgy because he did X, Y and Z." What evidence or
16 what was the rumour as to why Owen Corrigan was dodgy that
17 you heard?
18 A. There was nothing specific in it. It was just a
19 generalised conversation.
20 391 Q. Can I inquiry from you, when you say there were other
21 people saying this about him and people were talking about
22 him, what people are you referring to?
23 A. I'm not sure I used those words, but it would be our
24 colleagues, people in the Force.
25 392 Q. I'm not looking for their names, but what type of people
26 are you talking about? Are they people who had worked in
27 Dundalk? Are they people who were working on certain
28 projects?
29 A. First of all, I can't remember who they were, I can't
30 remember their names. You would meet people in the course
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 73
1 of working, some who may have worked for a while up in
2 Dundalk or who were only there for a weekend, and that's
3 where the talk would be, if you were asking how did you get
4 on in Dundalk, et cetera.
5 393 Q. But you can't tell the Chairman of any specific basis for
6 the allegation made or the rumour made about Owen Corrigan
7 that he was dodgy?
8 A. No, I cannot mention the specific basis.
9 394 Q. A witness from the RUC whose life was, that he was tried to
10 be killed on six occasions by the IRA, gave evidence to the
11 Chairman on the 8th September last, Mr. O'Connell, and I
12 just want to read out a part of his evidence and see
13 whether you agree with it. He said he had trained police
14 officers from around the world, senior officers, and he
15 said "the most salient point about each police force is the
16 rumour mongers and the rumour mill that abounds and it was
17 no less than in the RUC and no less in An Garda Síochána."
18 Would you agree with me that simply because people make
19 rumours or spread rumours about people, that doesn't mean
20 those rumours are true?
21 A. Of course not.
22 395 Q. And did you ever hear rumours about any other member of An
23 Garda Síochána?
24 A. Well, I can't think of any at the moment but I'm sure I
25 did, but it wouldn't be about that sort of stuff, it could
26 be anything.
27 396 Q. But when you say it wouldn't have been about that sort of
28 stuff, that gets to the questions I was just asking you
29 earlier, what sort of stuff are you talking about,
30 Mr. O'Connell?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 74
1 A. I'm talking about someone who would be working in a
2 sensitive area. I would have regarded Dundalk as a
3 sensitive place for anyone to be of doubtful character.
4 397 Q. But you never met Mr. Corrigan?
5 A. No, never.
6 398 Q. Do you agree with me, and I'm not trying to criticise you
7 too much, Mr. O'Connell, but would you agree with me that
8 it's slightly unfair of you to come into a public tribunal
9 that is investigating matters of literally life and death
10 and to say that my client is dodgy and you heard rumours he
11 was dodgy when you've nothing to back it up?
12 A. Yes, that's the evidence I gave. That's the truth.
13 399 Q. But do you not see any unfairness in that?
14 A. I was asked my opinion. I gave it. That's what it is and
15 --
16 400 Q. Sorry to interrupt you, please continue.
17 A. No, I explained the source of this.
18 401 Q. But it's not your opinion on Owen Corrigan. It's just what
19 you heard others say in the rumour mill?
20 A. Yes.
21 402 Q. Thank you. When you heard this about Owen Corrigan, did
22 you not recommend to your superiors or did you not yourself
23 say we should investigate this thing?
24 A. No, I did not.
25 403 Q. Did you report it to any of your superiors?
26 A. No.
27 404 Q. Did you recommend an investigation?
28 A. No.
29 405 Q. Did you seek access to his file?
30 A. No.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 75
1 406 Q. Would you agree with me, therefore, that you obviously
2 didn't take these rumours that seriously?
3 A. I regarded them as something for someone else to
4 investigate but it wasn't up to me.
5 407 Q. But you didn't think it appropriate to bring it to the
6 attention of someone else to investigate, did you?
7 A. That's correct.
8 408 Q. And I don't know what you said, I can't recall what you
9 said in respect of a security risk, but am I correct in
10 stating that your evidence is that the rumours were that he
11 was dodgy, not that he was a security risk?
12 A. Yes, I think I've said that from the beginning.
13
14 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Thank you very much.
15
16 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
17
18 MR. COFFEY: No questions.
19
20 MS. O'SULLIVAN: No questions.
21
22 CHAIRMAN: Very good. Any re-examination?
23
24 THE WITNESS WAS RE-EXAMINED BY MRS. LAVERTY AS FOLLOWS:
25
26 MRS. LAVERTY: Just one matter arising out of that that I
27 forgot to mention in the beginning.
28 409 Q. I think that you were in C3 for 13 years, is that right?
29 A. Sorry?
30 410 Q. Were you in C3 for 13 years?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 76
1 A. C3, that was the headquarters of it, the subversive type,
2 yeah.
3 411 Q. Did you work with Mr. Ned O'Dea?
4 A. Yes. When we were young Ned and I were friends and worked
5 together and then later on, when he was head of C3, I used
6 to report to him.
7 412 Q. And I think our next witness is ex Commissioner Noel
8 Conroy, would you have worked with him in that capacity?
9 A. No, I don't think so, not in the same way.
10 413 Q. And do you think that these rumours circulating around
11 Harcourt Street when you were there, do you think Mr. O'Dea
12 would have been privy to those?
13 A. I don't know. Ned would have been -- C3 was in the Phoenix
14 Park -- Headquarters -- whereas we would be working
15 downtown in Harcourt Square.
16 414 Q. So you don't know?
17 A. I don't know is the short answer.
18
19 MRS. LAVERTY: Thank you very, Mr. O'Connell.
20
21 CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. O'Connell, for coming in, you've
22 been a great help. Thank you.
23
24 THE WITNESS THEN WITHDREW.
25
26 MR. DILLON: Chairman, your next witness should be Mr. Noel
27 Conroy. Mr. Conroy hasn't arrived yet. We're trying to
28 find out what the position is, I hope that no, sort of,
29 misfortune has happened to him. His phone doesn't reply;
30 it rings out, so we are making further inquiries. Could I
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 77
1 suggest the following: could I ask you to rise for maybe
2 15 minutes so that I can report back to you whatever we
3 find out.
4
5 CHAIRMAN: Yes indeed.
6
7 MR. DILLON: Thank you very much.
8
9 THE TRIBUNAL ADJOURNED BRIEFLY AND RESUMED AS FOLLOWS:
10
11 MR. DILLON: Chairman, thank you very much for the time.
12 I'm happy to tell you your solicitor has managed to contact
13 the Mr. Conroy, Mr. Conroy sends his apologies, he mistook
14 the date. That's understandable, these things happen. He
15 has suggested, if that is acceptable to you, he be taken
16 tomorrow morning.
17
18 CHAIRMAN: I think that would suit.
19
20 MR. DILLON: What I suggest is that we take Mr. Conroy
21 first as it happens, followed by the next witness, who is
22 Mr. McTiernan, I think his name is, followed by
23 Mr. Maguire.
24
25 CHAIRMAN: Yes, I think that's...
26
27 MR. DILLON: I think we have sufficient leeway in the day
28 to incorporate an extra witness.
29
30 CHAIRMAN: I think we have. Very good. 11 o'clock
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 78
1 tomorrow morning. Thank you.
2
3 THE TRIBUNAL ADJOURNED UNTIL THE FOLLOWING DAY, THURSDAY
4 15TH SEPTEMBER, 2011 AT 11 A.M.
5 6
7
8
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10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 1
' 9 43:29 19:19, 20:4, 20:12, attention [6] - 19:21, agents [4] - 31:10, 43:24, 34:23, 38:23, 39:29, 19:22, 19:24, 30:12, '69 [3] - 5:20, 10:19, 90s [1] - 44:5 43:25, 43:27 49:9, 54:15, 54:23, 74:2 58:22, 75:6 12:28 aggressive [1] - 37:12 areas [2] - 12:21, 37:19 attitude [1] - 26:30 '81 [2] - 55:11, 55:12 A ago [2] - 32:14, 58:13 arising [1] - 75:26 au [1] - 31:4 '85 [1] - 13:6 agree [19] - 23:24, 24:12, Armagh [19] - 6:10, 7:3, Aughnacloy [1] - 18:10 A.M [1] - 78:4 '94 [1] - 5:7 25:21, 30:4, 30:25, 7:21, 8:13, 11:4, 11:8, authorise [2] - 13:14, Aaron [1] - 1:10 'Dickers' [1] - 26:12 36:12, 37:25, 38:1, 12:9, 14:13, 15:14, 27:3 abduction [1] - 67:10 'dodgy' [1] - 53:8 38:8, 68:5, 69:3, 69:28, 15:18, 25:16, 27:2, authorised [5] - 13:30, able [1] - 61:4 'Mooch' [3] - 19:14, 20:2, 70:8, 71:21, 73:13, 34:22, 37:24, 38:2, 14:4, 14:18, 16:5, 16:6 abounds [1] - 73:16 30:28 73:18, 74:6, 74:7, 75:1 38:10, 38:11, 38:16, authorities [2] - 57:12, absolutely [5] - 29:11, 'soft [1] - 27:24 agreed [2] - 40:10, 55:27 67:11 67:24 55:12, 56:26, 61:6, 72:1 Agreement [1] - 20:5 Armagh/north [1] - 20:3 authors [1] - 22:26 accept [9] - 35:12, 35:16, 1 air [1] - 32:15 armed [4] - 21:21, 60:21, available [8] - 9:17, 9:25, 39:2, 43:7, 44:10, alarm [1] - 58:30 60:26, 61:2 11:11, 12:15, 12:23, 11 [2] - 77:30, 78:4 44:13, 44:16, 44:19, align [1] - 31:8 armies [1] - 9:27 18:2, 18:3, 23:30 13 [2] - 75:28, 75:30 44:30 aligned [1] - 6:27 armory [3] - 4:14, 13:5, availed [1] - 6:18 14 [1] - 44:7 acceptable [1] - 77:15 aligning [1] - 27:27 13:6 avoid [1] - 54:18 14TH [1] - 1:1 acceptance [1] - 45:18 allegation [9] - 28:9, arms [5] - 12:15, 44:23, avoided [1] - 49:19 15 [1] - 77:2 accepted [2] - 37:23, 30:15, 33:10, 35:17, 60:28, 60:30, 61:3 aware [42] - 2:28, 3:2, 15TH [1] - 78:4 38:25 68:25, 68:29, 69:29, army [3] - 10:24, 11:14, 4:15, 4:18, 4:20, 5:27, accepting [1] - 45:13 1955 [1] - 47:9 70:5, 73:6 13:19 6:3, 6:8, 6:21, 9:9, 10:4, 1958 [1] - 47:12 access [5] - 20:17, 43:25, allegations [2] - 3:27, Army [15] - 9:18, 9:22, 16:29, 18:20, 19:8, 60:30, 61:3, 74:29 1964 [2] - 2:5, 2:15 20:14 9:25, 13:29, 14:4, 14:7, 19:11, 19:15, 19:17, [2] accessible [1] - 12:24 1968 - 47:13, 55:9 alleged [3] - 33:1, 33:6, 14:9, 14:22, 14:29, 19:19, 20:14, 20:19, 1969 [1] - 2:15 account [4] - 12:21, 68:30 19:27, 33:18, 33:19, 22:21, 25:9, 26:15, 13:17, 30:18, 31:7 1975 [1] - 67:11 allegedly [1] - 25:11 33:21, 33:23, 36:21 26:30, 37:16, 39:28, accurate [1] - 24:18 1976 [1] - 67:11 allowed [2] - 13:7, 34:6 arose [1] - 11:9 43:9, 44:8, 55:11, accused [1] - 56:22 1980 [1] - 44:29 alluded [1] - 8:13 arranged [1] - 16:15 55:24, 55:25, 56:13, acknowledgment [1] - 1980s [2] - 33:2, 35:22 alone [2] - 19:27, 28:13 arrangements [2] - 16:3, 56:29, 67:12, 67:26, 35:4 1981 [2] - 47:16, 55:10 ambush [1] - 62:14 21:20 67:30, 68:25, 68:28, act [2] - 14:15, 57:18 1985 [1] - 47:17 ambushed [1] - 6:7 arrest [4] - 21:26, 34:2, 68:29, 69:2, 69:23, Act [1] - 44:8 1987 [1] - 58:18 amounted [1] - 4:25 34:3, 45:10 69:28 acting [1] - 14:16 1988 [2] - 58:1, 58:8 analysed [1] - 22:24 arrested [7] - 10:27, 33:1, awareness [1] - 67:3 action [1] - 14:14 1989 [6] - 2:30, 11:27, analyses [2] - 12:17, 44:7, 44:16, 44:22, active [4] - 20:3, 20:29, 47:20, 55:1, 58:8, 68:30 22:27 45:1, 45:3 B 58:16, 58:17 1990 [3] - 44:18, 44:23, analysing [1] - 24:25 arresting [1] - 45:8 activities [12] - 4:27, 5:9, bad [3] - 54:29, 55:21, 44:29 analysis [3] - 24:16, 30:8, arrived [3] - 13:5, 34:4, 6:26, 15:21, 19:22, 55:26 1990s [1] - 33:2 38:8 76:27 19:24, 30:28, 31:15, base [2] - 45:18, 65:30 1995 [1] - 20:21 AND [1] - 77:9 arriving [1] - 34:4 32:27, 35:14, 35:22, based [6] - 19:3, 19:26, 1996 [1] - 32:30 answer [5] - 22:6, 34:9, articles [1] - 31:12 61:15 21:11, 21:12, 28:12, 70:13, 72:8, 76:17 AS [13] - 1:1, 2:1, 22:8, activity [7] - 2:24, 3:28, 58:9 2 anyway [5] - 18:4, 31:14, 28:20, 32:22, 36:8, 6:14, 7:12, 35:27, basics [1] - 38:1 57:30, 63:9, 66:18 47:2, 59:22, 64:1, 64:4, 2 [1] - 14:7 35:30, 37:27 basing [1] - 45:20 apart [1] - 24:23 69:17, 75:24, 77:9 20 [1] - 11:7 acts [1] - 14:10 basis [16] - 5:5, 8:21, apologies [1] - 77:13 aspect [3] - 23:19, 24:1, 2000 [1] - 3:10 actual [1] - 11:22 17:25, 22:21, 42:20, apparent [2] - 42:18, 24:7 2005 [1] - 2:7 addresses [1] - 10:26 47:29, 48:13, 49:3, 68:23 aspects [1] - 3:3 2011 [2] - 1:1, 78:4 ADJOURNED [3] - 63:22, 54:11, 66:24, 66:28, appear [8] - 1:9, 22:12, asserting [1] - 22:22 27 [1] - 67:19 77:9, 78:3 72:9, 72:10, 73:5, 73:8 28:23, 32:24, 46:5, assess [1] - 61:14 29 [1] - 17:22 admission [2] - 33:2, became [6] - 2:17, 13:10, 53:28, 59:26, 69:20 assessing [1] - 10:12 35:13 34:21, 67:10, 67:14, application [7] - 1:4, 1:7, assessment [4] - 8:24, admissions [1] - 34:17 67:15 3 1:11, 1:14, 1:25, 41:15, 8:29, 31:29, 34:20 become [6] - 20:30, 21:7, admitting [1] - 35:21 assist [3] - 24:4, 24:5, 3,000 [1] - 5:7 56:25 adopt [1] - 17:26 27:30, 42:17, 54:16, appreciated [1] - 46:7 48:19 30 [4] - 11:7, 12:18, 67:26 adopted [1] - 41:27 assistance [8] - 1:15, 17:22, 36:17 approach [1] - 17:26 advice [2] - 34:7, 35:10 BEEN [2] - 2:1, 47:1 approached [1] - 58:19 4:10, 5:4, 9:17, 19:6, AFTER [1] - 64:1 beeps [1] - 39:23 appropriate [6] - 1:18, 21:2, 48:21, 49:1 7 aftermath [1] - 3:23 beforehand [1] - 34:25 32:11, 68:7, 68:19, Assistant [10] - 1:30, 2:8, afternoon [4] - 11:16, beg [1] - 52:3 70s [1] - 10:19 69:8, 75:5 3:7, 19:1, 25:10, 28:6, 28:23, 64:6, 69:20 began [1] - 15:1 April [2] - 44:18, 44:23 29:15, 29:16, 58:26, afterwards [6] - 8:25, 67:19 beginning [4] - 2:16, 8 archive [1] - 10:10 8:27, 13:12, 14:30, 23:5, 75:12, 75:27 area [31] - 6:25, 7:26, 8:1, assisted [1] - 16:25 80s [1] - 44:5 31:19, 58:15 behalf [2] - 29:27, 36:10 9:10, 9:12, 9:15, 9:18, assisting [2] - 4:23, 4:27 8th [1] - 73:11 agencies [7] - 8:22, behaviour [1] - 64:19 9:21, 10:20, 11:4, 12:9, astonishing [1] - 59:2 19:26, 33:15, 36:20, Belfast [1] - 18:8 12:10, 13:9, 13:14, AT [1] - 78:4 36:22, 36:24, 43:2 bell [1] - 58:30 13:27, 14:1, 15:20, attend [1] - 59:18 belonged [2] - 31:16 agent [3] - 36:30, 37:2, 15:23, 17:7, 17:13, attended [1] - 16:7
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 2 below [1] - 37:17 broadly [2] - 15:20, 19:12 41:30, 43:4, 43:7, COFFEY [4] - 32:22, 68:7 benchmark [1] - 29:18 brought [1] - 45:17 56:27, 58:5, 65:19, 32:24, 36:2, 75:18 concerns [3] - 55:14, beneficial [1] - 32:17 Buchanan [10] - 2:29, 70:23 collate [1] - 50:28 58:23, 68:7 best [3] - 24:26, 37:26, 10:30, 14:19, 15:28, cetera [1] - 73:4 collating [2] - 35:30, conclude [2] - 65:20, 42:2 18:14, 25:1, 51:7, Chairman [25] - 1:3, 8:11, 47:27 66:27 betray [1] - 65:21 58:19, 58:21, 58:23 10:7, 14:2, 15:22, collation [1] - 50:13 conclusion [2] - 29:25, betrayed [2] - 65:20, bugbear [1] - 50:2 18:24, 18:25, 28:3, colleagues [5] - 51:12, 51:18 70:28 built [2] - 5:20, 12:30 29:12, 29:25, 30:19, 53:30, 54:22, 70:29, conclusions [2] - 4:2, betraying [1] - 54:22 built-up [2] - 5:20, 12:30 32:11, 36:6, 41:11, 72:24 32:7 better [3] - 9:6, 42:20, bunch [1] - 60:22 41:16, 45:30, 46:13, collecting [1] - 50:9 conduct [1] - 42:18 66:19 BY [10] - 2:1, 22:8, 28:20, 63:16, 70:17, 71:14, Collins [8] - 26:27, 26:29, conducted [2] - 3:7, 19:2 between [9] - 15:6, 15:17, 32:22, 36:8, 47:1, 72:9, 73:5, 73:11, 33:30, 34:16, 34:20, confession [1] - 34:29 21:5, 25:27, 32:27, 59:22, 64:3, 69:17, 76:26, 77:11 35:1, 35:20, 35:26 confidential [1] - 4:28 36:20, 53:26, 54:13, 75:24 CHAIRMAN [16] - 1:7, Collins' [1] - 26:27 confirm [1] - 33:14 64:27 byways [1] - 48:25 1:14, 36:4, 42:5, 42:11, colluded [5] - 69:25, confirmed [2] - 67:19, beyond [1] - 34:6 42:23, 46:2, 63:12, 70:2, 70:14, 70:18, 68:14 big [4] - 13:8, 35:8, 48:30, C 63:19, 75:16, 75:22, 70:21 conflict [1] - 5:7 50:30 76:21, 77:5, 77:18, colluding [3] - 64:29, confuse [1] - 38:25 C3 [5] - 75:28, 75:30, bit [2] - 56:12, 57:14 77:25, 77:30 65:1, 65:15 connected [2] - 23:3, 76:1, 76:5, 76:13 Blair [9] - 1:12, 19:14, chances [1] - 24:29 collusion [3] - 28:10, 64:18 calibre [1] - 35:26 19:15, 19:18, 19:30, chancy [1] - 62:13 65:14, 68:30 connection [5] - 16:19, Callaghan [1] - 34:9 20:2, 30:16, 30:29 changed [3] - 10:24, Colton [2] - 32:25, 59:10 32:27, 44:24, 45:3, 64:9 Camon [1] - 3:11 blood [4] - 5:19, 22:17, 14:29, 15:13 combat [2] - 5:24, 23:13 Connolly [7] - 57:24, campaign [3] - 12:18, 23:15, 36:13 changes [1] - 15:4 combatting [1] - 61:15 57:25, 57:26, 57:30, blunder [2] - 59:3, 69:4 34:18, 34:30 changing [2] - 17:30 comfort [1] - 21:25 58:2, 68:1 Canada [1] - 16:19 Bob [3] - 58:19, 58:21, chap [1] - 66:15 coming [9] - 4:2, 9:30, Conroy [6] - 76:8, 76:27, 58:23 cannot [1] - 73:8 character [3] - 53:26, 10:2, 31:13, 43:13, 77:13, 77:20 body [1] - 68:15 capability [1] - 61:13 54:13, 74:3 46:6, 53:2, 53:20, 76:21 consider [1] - 51:25 book [8] - 13:20, 13:23, capacity [2] - 7:10, 76:8 charge [3] - 12:11, 14:11, command [20] - 7:7, 7:15, considered [1] - 62:27 26:27, 31:3, 31:14, Captain [1] - 67:11 28:7 7:19, 7:25, 7:28, 8:1, considering [1] - 11:3 35:12, 35:16, 37:29 car [5] - 25:1, 26:9, 30:16, charged [4] - 45:2, 45:5, 8:2, 8:6, 12:10, 12:26, Constable [1] - 67:20 30:22, 30:27 books [3] - 23:3, 23:5, 45:6, 45:17 13:9, 13:27, 14:1, 15:9, Constabulary [1] - 70:30 career [5] - 15:22, 30:5, 35:6 chief [2] - 15:12, 38:10 15:10, 19:3 constantly [1] - 11:12 47:6, 47:23, 67:22 border [28] - 6:7, 6:28, Chief [6] - 2:29, 3:11, commander [1] - 19:14 contact [2] - 34:28, 77:12 careful [5] - 17:26, 17:29, 9:6, 9:11, 9:12, 9:14, 10:30, 15:28, 18:14, commands [1] - 12:11 contacts [2] - 19:26, 43:1 53:9, 53:10, 57:16 67:19 9:15, 9:16, 15:24, 17:5, commensurate [1] - contained [1] - 8:18 carefully [2] - 6:10, 6:22 China [2] - 50:18, 50:21 17:12, 17:23, 30:10, 17:20 content [1] - 42:8 careless [2] - 50:11, 51:3 chink [1] - 4:14 32:28, 33:3, 36:17, Commissioner [16] - contents [1] - 19:11 carried [7] - 3:11, 6:15, chose [1] - 17:28 37:19, 48:9, 48:10, 1:30, 2:8, 3:8, 19:1, context [9] - 3:28, 13:18, 48:25, 54:15, 58:25, 10:10, 22:3, 38:12, circulated [2] - 55:13, 25:10, 28:4, 28:6, 13:29, 17:9, 34:3, 34:7, 59:28, 60:1, 60:4, 38:14, 42:14 56:20 29:15, 29:16, 58:22, 37:4, 53:2, 70:12 carry [7] - 14:13, 14:26, 60:18, 60:25, 61:5 circulating [2] - 55:18, 58:26, 59:1, 68:19, continually [1] - 8:1 15:5, 15:14, 23:10, 76:10 Border [2] - 58:1, 58:19 69:5, 76:7 CONTINUATION [1] - 27:12, 48:30 bragging [1] - 51:3 circumstances [6] - 5:29, common [4] - 5:15, 64:3 carrying [1] - 8:4 6:8, 30:21, 30:28, Branch [8] - 2:11, 25:9, 21:18, 27:16, 35:7 continue [2] - 63:14, 28:15, 36:21, 44:2, cars [1] - 17:30 31:22, 39:1 commonly [1] - 27:16 74:16 Carty [1] - 3:12 civilians [2] - 22:2, 23:20 45:22, 47:12, 67:15 communicate [1] - 66:3 CONTINUED [1] - 64:1 case [11] - 1:11, 4:3, 4:12, claimed [1] - 44:26 breach [1] - 24:3 communication [1] - contraband [1] - 33:5 11:20, 25:3, 30:9, claiming [1] - 35:21 breaches [1] - 67:27 11:26 contradict [1] - 72:2 45:16, 47:29, 52:23, claims [2] - 19:19, 31:11 Breen [6] - 2:29, 10:30, communications [1] - convenient [1] - 12:6 60:17 clarifications [1] - 19:5 14:19, 15:28, 18:14, 21:5 conventional [3] - 11:14, cases [1] - 23:28 51:7 clarify [1] - 62:25 community [1] - 6:11 13:5, 15:2 Castle [2] - 2:12, 47:13 Brian [1] - 67:15 classified [2] - 27:14, complementary [1] - 6:17 conversation [4] - 28:27, casual [1] - 16:6 briefed [3] - 43:22, 43:24, 69:4 complementing [1] - 56:7, 64:16, 72:19 catch [1] - 38:30 45:22 classify [1] - 14:22 15:21 convey [1] - 53:8 catch-all [1] - 38:30 BRIEFLY [1] - 77:9 cleaner [1] - 62:29 complicated [1] - 8:8 conveyed [1] - 29:9 category [1] - 34:16 Brigade [2] - 37:24, 38:17 clear [8] - 21:11, 21:15, complication [1] - 7:28 convicted [4] - 4:22, 5:8, caught [1] - 57:7 brigade [3] - 27:5, 38:18 24:17, 29:15, 40:7, component [2] - 23:21, 57:9, 57:10 caused [2] - 7:8, 8:2 45:1, 64:27, 65:7 bring [2] - 58:22, 75:5 23:22 core [1] - 6:24 cautious [1] - 54:6 clearance [1] - 9:21 British [11] - 9:18, 9:22, comprehend [1] - 28:16 Cork [1] - 8:4 caveat [1] - 53:15 clearly [1] - 27:19 9:25, 14:9, 14:29, comprehensive [1] - cornered [1] - 21:30 19:27, 33:17, 33:19, CB [5] - 11:28, 39:10, clicks [1] - 39:22 35:13 correct [40] - 2:6, 2:9, 33:21, 33:23, 36:21 39:12, 39:21, 39:22 client [1] - 74:10 compromise [1] - 32:17 2:14, 2:19, 3:13, 3:17, broad [7] - 4:27, 8:21, certain [6] - 3:3, 13:8, closed [6] - 41:11, 41:17, compromised [1] - 56:17 3:20, 4:24, 5:1, 5:18, 14:8, 19:26, 30:23, 48:22, 53:26, 55:12, 41:24, 42:5, 42:14, concept [1] - 12:25 5:28, 8:14, 8:15, 18:15, 32:5, 35:1 72:27 42:19 concerned [2] - 24:28, 18:21, 21:22, 25:2, broadcast [1] - 3:25 certainly [12] - 3:22, 4:3, clothes [1] - 35:24 58:28 25:19, 29:10, 31:23, broader [1] - 26:4 12:3, 16:9, 25:24, Co [1] - 1:10 concerning [2] - 54:9, 31:24, 32:2, 32:4,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 3
36:18, 37:18, 47:7, 32:22, 36:8, 59:22, 37:28 done [13] - 6:22, 10:5, 28:23, 31:2, 32:9, 47:10, 47:15, 47:19, 64:3, 69:17 describes [1] - 72:13 28:11, 30:8, 33:20, 32:20, 32:24, 36:2, 47:22, 47:25, 47:30, cross [6] - 33:14, 41:13, description [1] - 27:22 57:11, 57:12, 59:2, 36:10, 46:5, 46:11 48:1, 50:24, 58:6, 41:21, 41:28, 42:13, design [1] - 14:12 59:4, 61:25, 66:13, eight [1] - 11:14 59:30, 71:4, 71:27, 63:13 designated [2] - 12:12, 69:5, 69:10 either [9] - 3:16, 10:23, 75:7, 75:9 CROSS-EXAMINATION 13:8 Donegal [1] - 9:15 30:12, 31:9, 35:18, Corrigan [54] - 16:24, [1] - 64:3 designating [1] - 38:30 doubt [10] - 5:6, 10:3, 35:19, 35:24, 50:23, 20:21, 21:9, 25:11, cross-examination [2] - detail [2] - 24:13, 51:23 17:11, 17:27, 23:3, 65:8 27:13, 28:10, 28:24, 42:13, 63:13 detailed [2] - 26:28, 35:13 24:7, 26:21, 27:7, 33:7, electronic [1] - 39:24 30:15, 30:17, 31:26, cross-examine [1] - details [1] - 66:26 33:25 elsewhere [1] - 8:17 32:4, 40:2, 40:8, 42:27, 41:13 detained [1] - 10:27 doubtful [1] - 74:3 emphatic [1] - 53:27 52:29, 53:1, 53:5, CROSS-EXAMINED [6] - detect [2] - 7:1, 8:3 down [14] - 6:27, 7:30, employment [1] - 34:24 53:14, 53:25, 55:3, 22:8, 28:20, 32:22, detective [1] - 60:10 9:21, 13:16, 14:1, 15:4, en [2] - 62:11, 62:13 56:4, 56:15, 56:27, 36:8, 59:22, 69:17 Detective [6] - 16:24, 18:10, 20:26, 39:17, enable [1] - 23:9 57:13, 58:23, 64:11, cross-examined [1] - 20:20, 47:14, 47:16, 39:19, 53:18, 53:23, encounter [1] - 28:25 65:15, 66:7, 67:9, 41:28 60:10, 67:6 64:22, 68:12 encountered [1] - 9:14 67:20, 67:22, 67:28, cross-examining [1] - detectives [5] - 60:12, Down [3] - 7:23, 15:7, end [2] - 7:30, 63:13 68:2, 68:11, 68:21, 41:21 60:18, 61:1, 61:3, 61:4 15:18 ended [2] - 5:7, 57:30 68:26, 69:5, 69:21, crossed [1] - 6:6 detrimental [1] - 23:17 downtown [1] - 76:15 engaged [2] - 6:17, 21:25 70:14, 70:18, 70:21, crowds [1] - 21:29 develop [1] - 6:29 drink [2] - 21:14, 31:29 entail [1] - 17:24 70:28, 71:5, 71:8, Crowley [2] - 28:4, 58:27 Diarmuid [2] - 22:12, drivers [1] - 11:30 enter [1] - 9:18 71:15, 71:22, 71:26, crucial [2] - 23:28, 29:25 59:26 Drogheda [2] - 21:10, entitled [5] - 1:17, 31:3, 71:29, 72:11, 72:16, cultivating [1] - 37:13 difference [1] - 38:15 34:6 45:11, 70:9, 72:9 73:6, 74:4, 74:18, 74:21 Curran [8] - 58:9, 58:10, different [10] - 8:22, 9:26, Dublin [9] - 2:12, 10:10, entity [1] - 37:4 Corrigan's [5] - 31:21, 58:11, 58:12, 58:18, 9:27, 12:12, 24:20, 10:20, 28:30, 34:4, entrap [1] - 66:17 52:30, 56:2, 64:9, 67:1 58:21, 58:25, 59:5 24:22, 29:22, 43:1, 47:13, 53:23, 55:26, envisaging [1] - 42:14 Cory [4] - 18:29, 19:9, customs [1] - 34:25 60:7, 60:25 58:26 Eoin [3] - 44:14, 44:17, 29:3, 29:6 differentiate [2] - 1:23, due [1] - 32:10 44:24 Council [4] - 13:29, 14:4, D 64:27 Dundalk [47] - 6:5, 7:25, equate [1] - 65:15 14:7, 14:22 differentiated [1] - 53:26 15:14, 15:29, 16:2, equation [1] - 32:6 counsel [5] - 1:16, 1:23, daily [1] - 19:4 differentiating [1] - 54:13 16:24, 18:10, 19:22, ERU [1] - 60:15 1:25, 32:13, 47:4 date [4] - 12:2, 29:1, 41:5, 19:23, 20:12, 20:15, difficult [2] - 7:1, 71:27 escorts [5] - 17:27, 18:2, counterpart [2] - 6:5, 77:14 difficulties [2] - 7:5, 7:13 20:17, 21:10, 30:27, 18:7, 18:9, 18:21 15:29 DAY [1] - 78:3 39:29, 49:18, 52:6, difficulty [6] - 7:9, 8:3, especially [2] - 8:2, 10:20 counterparts [5] - 15:25, days [7] - 3:8, 3:19, 3:23, 52:8, 52:9, 52:10, 43:15, 45:13, 45:15, essentially [1] - 4:22 16:2, 16:4, 18:15, 33:24 9:20, 10:24, 11:8, 24:8 53:14, 53:20, 53:21, 45:26 et [1] - 73:4 counties [3] - 7:8, 7:11, deal [7] - 1:5, 15:25, 20:8, 53:24, 54:1, 54:5, DILLON [5] - 76:26, 77:7, etc [2] - 61:26, 66:2 7:20 25:4, 39:21, 40:30, 54:24, 55:24, 57:30, 77:11, 77:20, 77:27 Europe [1] - 16:18 countries [2] - 8:22, 67:25 58:3, 58:4, 61:29, direct [3] - 32:26, 33:13, evening [1] - 38:28 16:18 dealing [6] - 47:24, 47:26, 61:30, 62:1, 62:19, 72:8 event [7] - 56:15, 56:16, country [5] - 6:12, 12:10, 52:7, 53:9, 54:18, 68:7 62:22, 62:24, 62:26, directly [2] - 33:19, 40:30 64:14, 64:17, 64:23, 13:2, 13:5, 16:18 dealings [3] - 19:4, 28:15, 63:8, 64:9, 68:3, 71:27, disappointed [1] - 4:11 65:11, 66:3 couple [1] - 28:24 67:1 72:27, 73:2, 73:4, 74:2 disciplinary [1] - 71:10 everyday [1] - 59:6 course [21] - 4:23, 5:6, dealt [3] - 39:27, 41:29, during [4] - 30:10, 47:23, discipline [2] - 67:27, evidence [47] - 1:18, 28:27, 32:3, 32:10, 42:2 71:14, 71:26 69:7 8:12, 16:22, 18:24, 32:26, 33:1, 33:15, death [2] - 65:22, 74:9 duties [1] - 64:18 discovered [1] - 25:3 24:17, 24:24, 29:24, 33:23, 33:29, 41:27, debate [1] - 38:24 duty [9] - 4:19, 4:23, 17:5, discuss [3] - 35:1, 41:10, 30:17, 32:26, 33:13, 42:11, 47:23, 54:8, decided [1] - 57:14 17:14, 17:17, 59:27, 66:4 33:22, 33:29, 35:6, 57:19, 58:13, 61:3, decision [2] - 13:28, 60:4, 60:18, 64:23 discussed [2] - 43:18, 38:10, 40:19, 42:1, 62:28, 70:11, 72:30, 41:23 52:1 45:7, 45:9, 49:15, 73:21 decisions [2] - 14:7, 15:4 discussing [3] - 21:20, E 49:21, 51:19, 51:20, court [2] - 13:23, 34:5 dedicated [1] - 6:24 35:30, 52:4 Eamon [7] - 26:27, 26:29, 51:30, 53:24, 53:28, Court [1] - 35:6 deeds [1] - 8:5 disputing [1] - 37:6 33:30, 34:16, 34:20, 54:7, 58:3, 58:8, 58:18, Courts [1] - 45:17 defend [1] - 70:9 disseminating [1] - 31:18 35:1, 35:26 59:19, 61:12, 63:5, cover [2] - 6:28, 62:14 definite [1] - 65:23 distinction [4] - 25:27, early [5] - 7:6, 33:2, 33:4, 63:9, 64:7, 65:25, 69:3, coverage [3] - 51:13, degree [2] - 5:15, 8:9 38:13, 45:1, 60:24 70:17, 70:25, 71:2, 51:14, 51:15 44:5, 44:29 deliberate [2] - 50:3, 50:5 71:5, 72:1, 72:2, 72:15, distinguished [2] - 47:6, ears [2] - 30:30, 56:2 credence [1] - 3:27 deliberately [1] - 50:7 47:8 73:10, 73:12, 74:12, credible [1] - 31:19 easier [1] - 54:18 deliver [1] - 11:24 75:10 ditch [1] - 15:2 easily [1] - 12:24 Crime [8] - 2:13, 2:28, delivered [1] - 9:28 division [2] - 68:6, 68:8 Evidence [1] - 1:20 19:1, 25:9, 28:7, 28:14, easy [2] - 12:9, 24:11 delve [1] - 29:21 evidence-in-chief [1] - divisional [1] - 18:17 economic [1] - 14:30 29:16, 58:27 Denis [2] - 4:20, 37:16 dodgy [20] - 52:12, 53:3, 38:10 crime [1] - 45:10 effect [5] - 22:18, 25:18, Dennis [1] - 66:21 54:13, 54:17, 62:20, evident [1] - 23:8 crimes [1] - 4:26 38:26, 71:13, 71:21 department [4] - 10:11, 64:19, 71:5, 71:6, ex [2] - 49:16, 76:7 criminals [1] - 37:26 effectiveness [1] - 68:8 14:12, 18:5, 19:6 71:16, 72:5, 72:6, exact [1] - 4:26 criticise [1] - 74:6 EGAN [3] - 1:9, 1:27, 2:1 depended [1] - 23:8 72:11, 72:13, 72:15, exactly [7] - 9:2, 9:8, cropping [1] - 52:19 Egan [14] - 1:30, 2:4, derogatory [2] - 55:4 72:16, 73:7, 74:10, 14:24, 18:22, 25:29, CROSS [7] - 22:8, 28:20, 22:5, 22:11, 28:2, describe [2] - 37:26, 74:11, 75:11 26:11, 38:13
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 4 exaggerated [1] - 34:11 fellow [3] - 37:16, 57:7, former [2] - 4:20, 67:6 27:22, 31:30, 36:11, 42:17, 46:11 EXAMINATION [1] - 64:3 65:20 forth [3] - 36:22, 39:5, 37:23, 51:16, 52:9, Hayes [3] - 22:15, 22:20, examination [3] - 42:13, felt [2] - 50:1, 53:22 39:10 52:10, 52:15, 61:19, 25:15 63:13, 75:22 few [3] - 9:20, 36:11, fought [2] - 36:17, 71:29 61:20, 64:16, 64:19, head [4] - 35:5, 61:25, examine [1] - 41:13 51:10 frame [1] - 4:1 64:27, 65:17, 67:3 67:15, 76:5 EXAMINED [9] - 2:1, field [2] - 17:23, 31:13 frequency [1] - 62:16 generalised [1] - 72:19 Headquarters [9] - 2:13, 22:8, 28:20, 32:22, fields [1] - 48:18 Friday [2] - 20:5, 27:11 generally [9] - 9:16, 9:24, 3:20, 13:30, 16:27, 36:8, 47:1, 59:22, fight [1] - 24:24 Friend [3] - 40:1, 41:22, 10:21, 17:22, 18:7, 18:7, 18:18, 33:28, 69:17, 75:24 file [1] - 74:29 42:27 18:11, 21:27, 51:2, 61:9 58:15, 76:14 examined [1] - 41:28 files [2] - 10:10, 19:3 Friend's [1] - 41:15 gentlemen [1] - 63:20 headquarters [1] - 76:1 examining [1] - 41:21 finally [1] - 32:9 friendkt [1] - 67:16 geographic [1] - 24:5 hear [8] - 16:21, 54:27, example [6] - 26:22, 39:2, Finbarr [1] - 59:12 friendly [3] - 49:11, gernalised [1] - 65:24 55:13, 56:4, 56:11, 39:13, 50:16, 50:17 fine [1] - 45:25 58:20, 67:14 Gethins [1] - 67:6 66:7, 66:12, 73:22 examples [2] - 10:8, 26:6 finish [1] - 8:28 friends [1] - 76:4 GHQ [1] - 14:11 heard [21] - 3:6, 8:12, except [3] - 50:21, 66:1, finished [1] - 8:27 full [4] - 31:4, 34:29, given [14] - 4:9, 5:4, 18:25, 32:11, 40:25, 71:17 firearm [3] - 21:29, 22:1, 43:17, 43:19 10:21, 10:26, 11:20, 55:2, 55:3, 55:15, exclude [1] - 49:6 22:3 fully [3] - 29:18, 31:4, 12:1, 13:16, 14:20, 55:28, 58:2, 66:26, excluded [1] - 61:9 firearms [2] - 13:1, 21:28 44:13 23:27, 24:6, 30:28, 67:7, 67:29, 71:6, expansive [1] - 2:24 first [16] - 1:3, 1:29, 5:20, Fulton [10] - 18:25, 18:26, 44:4, 53:24, 58:18 71:12, 71:14, 72:4, expect [5] - 25:30, 33:5, 10:21, 11:2, 13:28, 28:25, 29:7, 30:11, gleaned [2] - 45:18, 67:2 72:17, 74:10, 74:19, 33:10, 33:22, 35:20 28:26, 28:27, 31:14, 30:18, 32:13, 36:10, gossip [6] - 27:16, 27:18, 74:21 expected [2] - 17:9, 25:13 41:1, 41:3, 51:26, 36:11, 41:1 27:21, 27:30, 40:23, heavily [4] - 23:9, 38:2, experience [9] - 5:5, 6:9, 61:24, 70:14, 72:29, Fulton's [2] - 29:24, 31:2 71:15 38:6, 38:18 15:6, 30:10, 31:6, 77:21 function [1] - 54:8 grant [1] - 1:24 held [2] - 13:2, 21:18 47:24, 48:7, 52:9, 61:7 fit [2] - 7:25, 60:22 great [2] - 25:4, 76:22 help [4] - 21:6, 39:17, 39:18, 76:22 experienced [2] - 1:15, fits [1] - 5:13 G green [2] - 13:20, 13:22 50:6 fitted [2] - 4:4, 8:26 ground [5] - 3:26, 9:23, helpful [1] - 32:16 gain [1] - 31:15 explain [1] - 40:16 Fitzsimons [2] - 67:15, 11:21, 12:15, 48:28 helping [1] - 5:9 gained [1] - 31:17 explained [1] - 74:17 67:16 group [4] - 7:1, 17:12, Hero [1] - 31:3 garda [2] - 50:16, 60:25 expressed [2] - 55:14, five [1] - 11:15 17:21, 31:8 Hickey [1] - 59:12 Garda [60] - 2:5, 2:13, 69:11 flaws [1] - 22:26 guard [3] - 30:22, 70:8, high [5] - 30:13, 38:7, 3:19, 3:23, 4:9, 4:18, extra [1] - 77:28 flexible [1] - 22:3 72:5 42:28, 43:3, 54:20 4:20, 4:29, 6:5, 7:10, extremely [2] - 23:17, flow [3] - 20:4, 23:12, guarded [1] - 49:28 higher [2] - 54:25, 55:28 10:17, 16:25, 16:27, 50:9 23:16 guards [3] - 14:9, 27:15, highly [1] - 53:25 20:14, 20:17, 21:13, eyes [1] - 30:30 fluid [1] - 8:9 61:15 highways [1] - 48:25 21:21, 22:12, 23:12, follow [1] - 44:28 guided [2] - 32:16, 37:7 himself [5] - 18:26, 20:23, 23:20, 23:21, 23:28, followed [2] - 77:21, guns [3] - 12:13, 12:30, 66:12, 67:20, 70:9 F 24:4, 24:13, 27:20, 77:22 27:11 history [2] - 6:14, 23:4 face [1] - 12:28 30:26, 30:27, 31:17, following [5] - 3:8, 26:20, guy [1] - 54:29 hmm [1] - 44:27 facilitate [2] - 21:4, 21:5 31:25, 32:30, 33:22, 40:27, 68:14, 77:1 honest [1] - 30:2 facility [1] - 21:23 33:27, 35:17, 35:23, FOLLOWING [1] - 78:3 H honestly [2] - 29:2, 30:24 fact [14] - 11:22, 38:25, 36:21, 37:1, 37:4, FOLLOWS [13] - 1:1, 2:2, Honour's [1] - 42:8 37:17, 40:1, 47:6, 49:6, half [2] - 9:16, 25:19 44:6, 44:10, 44:20, 22:9, 28:21, 32:22, hoof [1] - 6:22 49:18, 50:22, 54:21, hallmark [2] - 6:19, 10:19 44:22, 44:28, 58:23, 36:8, 47:2, 59:23, 64:1, hope [1] - 76:28 55:15, 57:1, 59:26, hand [3] - 37:27, 51:19 61:9, 61:28, 65:15, 64:4, 69:18, 75:24, 77:9 hospital [2] - 26:23, 65:27, 66:25, 71:4 62:3, 62:6, 62:22, handicap [1] - 37:10 foolish [1] - 35:11 26:24 facts [3] - 6:3, 21:12, 62:26, 63:6, 69:24, handing [1] - 27:11 FOR [1] - 63:22 hour [1] - 25:19 21:16 69:30, 70:3, 70:29, handler [3] - 23:28, 24:8, force [4] - 9:10, 16:26, hours [2] - 20:28, 33:4 factual [1] - 66:27 71:26, 73:17, 73:23 24:9 47:9, 73:15 house [2] - 10:28, 24:11 factually [1] - 25:6 Garda's [1] - 10:28 handlers [1] - 24:4 Force [21] - 48:12, 48:13, huge [3] - 12:13, 13:6, Gardai [1] - 22:23 hands [2] - 51:4, 51:5 fail [2] - 11:24, 31:14 48:23, 49:4, 49:19, 13:9 gardaí [1] - 69:1 happy [4] - 49:28, 49:30, failed [1] - 4:19 49:29, 50:1, 55:18, hundreds [2] - 11:19, Gardaí [5] - 2:11, 23:13, 63:16, 77:12 fair [5] - 2:23, 9:5, 10:13, 56:19, 59:27, 59:28, 16:7 23:20, 24:17, 61:18 16:15, 71:7 60:1, 60:7, 60:14, Harcourt [17] - 47:18, gather [5] - 5:17, 5:24, fairly [3] - 2:24, 3:25, 60:17, 60:26, 61:4, 48:11, 51:10, 51:13, 10:17, 24:23, 36:27 I 31:21 61:8, 66:13, 68:19, 52:2, 53:16, 53:30, gathered [7] - 8:27, 10:1, fairness [1] - 31:28 72:24 54:24, 58:2, 61:17, I've.. [1] - 44:11 10:14, 25:4, 26:18, 62:21, 64:8, 68:12, idea [2] - 10:13, 53:6 fait [1] - 31:4 forces [4] - 7:9, 21:6, 26:28, 42:30 71:14, 71:17, 76:11, faith [1] - 31:13 31:10, 34:19 identified [1] - 27:19 gathering [8] - 5:21, 9:30, 76:15 identify [3] - 14:25, false [1] - 57:19 Forces [1] - 17:4 10:5, 19:27, 24:1, hard [12] - 6:24, 7:29, 14:26, 29:12 familiar [1] - 12:25 fore [1] - 60:14 34:23, 36:16, 52:8 22:24, 27:21, 48:4, identity [4] - 23:26, family [1] - 35:9 foremost [1] - 13:28 general [32] - 4:8, 7:4, 51:18, 51:19, 51:20, 23:28, 24:4, 37:29 far [3] - 53:6, 58:28, 71:9 forensic [1] - 12:19 7:26, 10:23, 13:1, 51:24, 51:25, 63:9, 65:3 ignore [2] - 3:29, 28:17 fasten [1] - 21:3 forgot [1] - 75:27 13:30, 14:18, 17:3, feasible [1] - 26:5 hat [2] - 38:21, 38:22 illegal [6] - 6:14, 14:10, form [1] - 65:28 17:6, 18:1, 18:21, feeding [1] - 27:21 HAVING [2] - 2:1, 47:1 21:14, 37:5, 39:15, formally [2] - 1:12, 16:21 19:24, 21:12, 24:12, fell [1] - 37:16 HAYES [8] - 1:3, 1:29, 45:16 formed [4] - 5:20, 6:13, 26:30, 27:10, 27:15, 2:1, 2:4, 22:5, 41:26, image [1] - 5:26 fellas [2] - 50:4, 53:19 12:28, 43:2
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 5 imagine [8] - 18:2, 35:29, inquiring [1] - 14:3 investigations [3] - 3:3, jobs [2] - 12:12, 48:19 last [2] - 21:19, 73:11 44:1, 54:18, 54:22, inquiry [2] - 72:5, 72:20 3:17, 19:2 JOE [1] - 2:1 late [4] - 21:11, 33:30, 55:30, 56:11, 66:19 inside [2] - 9:15, 51:27 investigator [1] - 57:28 join [2] - 5:10, 11:18 44:5, 44:23 imagined [1] - 54:20 insofar [8] - 6:21, 7:14, investigators [1] - 20:27 joined [5] - 2:4, 2:15, latter [1] - 41:27 immediate [2] - 9:12, 9:9, 10:7, 12:7, 18:20, involved [25] - 2:17, 2:27, 34:20, 47:9, 57:26 Laverty [5] - 46:13, 47:4, 9:15 22:20, 24:28 20:2, 20:30, 30:13, joining [1] - 35:8 61:21, 66:6, 67:24 immediately [2] - 9:17, Inspector [1] - 47:16 34:21, 35:5, 35:27, Jonesboro [1] - 6:7 LAVERTY [6] - 47:2, 47:4, 56:21 instance [3] - 1:3, 26:27, 35:29, 36:20, 36:22, Joseph [2] - 1:30, 19:15 59:17, 75:24, 75:26, impinge [1] - 23:16 48:22 38:2, 38:5, 38:6, 38:19, judge [1] - 8:30 76:19 implication [1] - 65:1 instances [3] - 10:4, 38:20, 39:3, 39:29, Judge [4] - 18:29, 19:8, law [1] - 9:6 importance [2] - 23:23, 26:25, 48:22 40:18, 42:29, 43:4, 29:3, 29:6 lead [3] - 41:9, 65:19, 23:29 instructed [1] - 1:9 49:20, 64:23, 66:21, judged [1] - 12:19 65:21 important [3] - 27:30, instruction [1] - 14:20 67:10 judgement [2] - 42:19, leading [1] - 49:17 30:6, 50:20 instructions [1] - 13:19 involvement [10] - 3:16, 47:29 leaking [1] - 4:28 importations [1] - 13:3 intelligence [67] - 5:17, 18:29, 19:17, 34:11, junior [1] - 1:16 learn [1] - 40:4 impression [4] - 21:11, 5:22, 5:25, 8:29, 9:30, 34:17, 34:18, 34:30, jurisdiction [3] - 7:11, learnt [1] - 62:8 21:15, 29:7, 51:16 10:2, 10:4, 10:11, 35:2, 35:13, 35:21 8:23, 9:6 least [5] - 37:15, 49:16, improvised [1] - 15:3 10:16, 10:17, 10:28, involves [1] - 24:25 50:6, 59:3, 68:9 incident [1] - 4:7 13:11, 16:23, 19:28, IRA [108] - 4:10, 4:23, K leave [2] - 63:16, 63:19 incidents [1] - 4:17 19:29, 20:5, 20:8, 21:2, 4:27, 5:4, 5:10, 5:19, led [2] - 10:29, 48:13 Keeley [17] - 18:27, 19:8, inclined [1] - 1:21 22:16, 23:9, 23:12, 6:9, 6:10, 6:16, 7:3, 7:4, leeway [1] - 77:27 19:17, 19:29, 30:13, include [2] - 33:17, 65:5 23:13, 23:16, 23:19, 7:6, 7:12, 8:27, 9:30, left [2] - 6:6, 21:10 41:1, 41:3, 42:27, included [6] - 7:21, 7:23, 23:21, 24:1, 24:13, 10:5, 10:20, 11:8, legal [6] - 36:24, 37:4, 17:7, 19:28, 43:21, 24:19, 24:25, 25:8, 11:13, 11:18, 11:20, 42:29, 43:11, 43:16, 37:7, 37:9, 37:10, 60:23 12:15, 12:18, 12:28, 43:29, 44:2, 44:6, 61:10 25:11, 26:18, 26:25, legally [1] - 13:2 15:7, 16:25, 19:13, 44:29, 45:13, 45:23 including [2] - 8:23, 62:7 26:28, 27:15, 27:17, legitimate [2] - 14:22, 20:11, 22:15, 22:16, Keeley's [1] - 19:21 incorporate [1] - 77:28 27:25, 33:15, 33:18, 36:24 23:4, 23:7, 23:14, 24:9, keep [2] - 38:16, 53:2 indeed [16] - 4:11, 4:17, 33:19, 33:21, 33:23, length [1] - 15:23 24:29, 25:4, 25:15, keeping [1] - 57:22 6:8, 8:10, 19:7, 23:2, 34:23, 36:13, 36:16, Leo [2] - 32:24, 59:10 25:17, 26:1, 26:8, Kelly [4] - 1:10, 4:20, 24:15, 24:20, 24:27, 36:17, 36:23, 36:27, less [6] - 8:16, 18:21, 26:18, 27:2, 30:13, 37:16, 66:22 34:2, 34:11, 34:18, 39:4, 40:8, 40:9, 40:11, 23:30, 51:1, 73:17 40:21, 42:30, 43:26, 30:17, 30:22, 30:26, kept [1] - 52:18 56:19, 66:27, 70:3, 77:5 level [9] - 9:9, 14:5, 14:7, 30:27, 30:30, 32:27, Kerry [1] - 8:4 indicate [2] - 50:19, 68:18 45:18, 48:3, 48:5, 18:9, 18:20, 52:2, 49:17, 49:18, 49:28, 34:5, 34:17, 34:20, Kevin [9] - 18:25, 18:26, indicated [5] - 32:26, 54:20, 59:5 50:9, 52:7, 61:12, 34:30, 35:14, 35:22, 28:25, 29:7, 29:24, 33:29, 34:10, 37:15, levels [1] - 15:5 61:18, 67:2 35:25, 36:13, 36:26, 36:10, 36:11, 40:30, 45:22 liaise [2] - 15:29, 16:4 intelligence' [1] - 27:24 36:30, 37:5, 37:24, 47:11 indicates [1] - 1:20 liaised [1] - 33:14 intended [2] - 5:10, 62:8 38:2, 38:4, 38:5, 38:12, key [1] - 34:21 indication [1] - 29:14 liberally [1] - 3:25 interest [5] - 15:23, 38:14, 38:16, 38:20, kidnapped [2] - 21:9, indicator [1] - 3:30 libraries [1] - 10:22 36:24, 36:25, 68:1, 38:22, 38:26, 38:29, 27:13 individual [6] - 17:25, Libyan [1] - 13:5 68:20 39:3, 39:13, 39:15, kidnapping [3] - 20:20, 26:19, 35:28, 42:28, life [7] - 5:19, 17:15, interested [1] - 39:4 42:28, 42:29, 43:4, 20:22, 31:21 72:13 22:17, 23:15, 36:13, interesting [1] - 41:16 43:5, 43:30, 44:3, killed [1] - 73:10 individuals [1] - 32:18 73:9, 74:9 interference [1] - 13:21 44:26, 44:29, 45:7, killing [4] - 69:25, 70:2, infiltrated [1] - 15:12 likely [5] - 9:22, 10:1, intermingling [1] - 15:6 45:14, 45:15, 50:8, 70:15, 70:18 informally [1] - 16:15 24:2, 25:21, 66:7 50:13, 51:16, 51:23, kind [2] - 50:3, 59:4 informants [1] - 24:14 international [1] - 5:14 57:8, 57:18, 61:12, Limerick [2] - 57:3, 66:15 interrupt [1] - 74:16 Kirwan [3] - 3:14, 3:15, information [42] - 4:28, 61:19, 61:23, 61:28, limited [5] - 1:19, 1:21, interviewed [2] - 31:25, 3:16 5:16, 5:24, 8:26, 16:29, 62:8, 62:22, 62:26, 1:24, 11:21, 12:16 41:30 knit [1] - 8:13 17:10, 17:11, 17:14, 63:8, 64:29, 65:2, line [6] - 8:21, 14:1, interviews [1] - 41:22 know.. [3] - 26:24, 37:30, 23:27, 23:30, 24:6, 69:25, 70:15, 70:21, 17:15, 27:30, 65:8, 66:3 invented [1] - 34:11 41:10 24:30, 25:4, 27:14, 71:30, 72:1, 73:10 linkage [2] - 15:17, 15:19 30:17, 31:15, 33:21, investigate [10] - 7:1, knowing [2] - 21:25, Ireland [11] - 2:17, 7:30, list [1] - 10:24 29:10, 29:20, 31:22, 69:11 33:24, 33:26, 35:24, 16:8, 16:17, 20:23, literally [1] - 74:9 39:9, 43:11, 47:26, 32:13, 45:10, 54:19, knowledge [20] - 2:24, 20:26, 30:7, 31:7, literature [1] - 23:8 47:27, 48:3, 49:29, 74:23, 75:4, 75:6 5:27, 8:16, 9:3, 16:25, 31:10, 52:18, 62:9 lived [2] - 6:25, 10:25 50:1, 50:28, 53:16, investigated [8] - 9:19, 19:20, 20:11, 25:24, irrespective [1] - 9:19 lives [1] - 4:12 57:8, 57:13, 57:15, 10:25, 33:6, 56:23, 28:12, 30:20, 35:7, isolated [1] - 4:5 living [2] - 11:6, 62:29 57:18, 57:19, 58:26, 66:11, 66:12, 66:28, 40:19, 42:20, 43:12, issue [4] - 24:23, 31:29, loads [1] - 54:6 59:1, 59:4, 61:14, 63:5, 67:27 43:15, 45:23, 56:28, 33:6, 64:22 local [13] - 10:22, 13:16, 65:25, 66:25, 70:22 investigating [3] - 21:1, 61:7, 67:3 issues [2] - 23:26, 29:26 14:1, 14:5, 14:25, 18:9, informed [2] - 20:25, 69:24, 74:9 known [2] - 35:22, 51:16 itself [4] - 11:2, 17:23, 18:20, 19:13, 48:16, 41:23 investigation [20] - 2:17, 50:18, 51:22 48:26, 49:6, 49:12, 61:8 informer [2] - 23:26, 3:7, 3:11, 3:29, 4:30, L location [1] - 24:5 27:25 5:29, 6:1, 8:20, 8:25, ladies [1] - 63:20 locational [1] - 9:3 informers [1] - 23:20 20:20, 20:29, 21:7, J look [5] - 17:27, 18:12, 33:11, 44:17, 56:24, lads [1] - 66:1 initial [1] - 13:1 jail [1] - 5:8 laid [1] - 57:7 37:24, 54:9, 68:23 initiating [1] - 65:28 56:28, 66:22, 67:10, job [5] - 10:11, 22:29, looked [1] - 18:6 67:14, 74:27 language [1] - 37:28 inquiries [2] - 21:3, 76:30 22:30, 54:19, 64:21
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 6 looking [4] - 23:19, 27:19, 28:10, 31:17, mongers [1] - 73:16 55:15, 59:13, 59:25, 71:10, 72:18, 74:11 25:25, 61:25, 72:25 32:30, 34:21, 43:4, month [2] - 16:10, 48:23 64:8, 64:9, 67:7, 70:10, notice [4] - 4:3, 20:2, looks [1] - 53:6 49:16, 55:18, 56:19, month's [1] - 17:22 77:22 43:6, 43:8 loose [2] - 50:2, 51:2 57:4, 64:24, 66:11, monthly [2] - 48:13, 49:3 names [2] - 72:25, 72:30 number [15] - 3:2, 5:9, lorry [1] - 11:30 67:2, 68:5, 69:1, 69:29, months [1] - 51:10 National [1] - 2:12 11:21, 12:13, 12:17, loud [1] - 58:30 73:22 Morley [3] - 44:14, 44:17, natural [2] - 51:28, 51:29 13:25, 20:27, 30:4, Louth [5] - 7:26, 9:14, members [28] - 4:18, 44:24 nature [4] - 6:15, 16:30, 30:29, 34:10, 36:20, 15:7, 17:7, 20:4 10:17, 10:28, 14:8, morning [13] - 1:3, 1:4, 64:17, 65:6 43:1, 43:17, 61:4 lower [1] - 15:5 14:28, 21:13, 26:20, 1:30, 2:4, 11:15, 22:11, near [3] - 6:25, 11:6, numbers [5] - 5:8, 11:7, lunch [1] - 63:14 27:5, 33:3, 34:19, 33:4, 59:25, 64:7, 69:4, 48:10 11:17, 13:9, 13:11 LUNCH [2] - 63:22, 64:1 38:12, 38:14, 38:18, 77:16, 78:1 necessarily [2] - 30:29, numerous [3] - 10:26, 38:20, 52:16, 53:24, most [9] - 9:25, 9:28, 60:17 13:3, 34:19 M 56:30, 57:1, 60:4, 60:7, 25:21, 27:4, 32:16, necessary [11] - 16:11, 60:8, 60:10, 60:24, 53:4, 55:17, 57:22, 16:12, 16:14, 22:17, O Maguire [1] - 77:23 60:30, 61:9, 69:24, 73:15 22:29, 27:3, 41:12, O' [1] - 34:9 main [1] - 60:1 71:25 mostly [2] - 21:6, 21:13 41:29, 42:3, 42:13, O'Brien [1] - 20:23 major [2] - 59:3, 69:4 memory [1] - 49:5 motivated [1] - 37:26 42:18 O'CALLAGHAN [7] - majority [1] - 13:12 men [3] - 48:26, 49:8, mount [2] - 11:1, 26:17 necessity [2] - 11:9, 60:2 28:20, 28:23, 32:20, man [10] - 19:14, 28:13, 61:29 mounted [2] - 6:21, 26:16 Ned [3] - 76:3, 76:4, 41:15, 69:17, 69:20, 30:22, 30:27, 39:3, mention [3] - 14:19, 73:8, move [8] - 1:12, 11:12, 76:13 75:14 43:30, 44:3, 44:29, 75:27 39:27, 41:24, 42:12, need [2] - 14:13, 20:7 o'clock [5] - 38:27, 38:28, 57:4, 57:20 mentioned [7] - 35:18, 42:26, 52:25, 68:11 needed [3] - 17:28, 21:3, 63:12, 63:20, 77:30 managed [1] - 77:12 52:21, 52:26, 52:30, moved [2] - 58:24, 68:10 46:6 O'Connell [17] - 46:14, maneuvering [1] - 6:29 54:10, 55:1, 64:8 movement [1] - 16:26 never [22] - 5:10, 13:12, 47:4, 50:23, 54:9, mark [1] - 4:19 merely [1] - 65:24 movements [2] - 10:2, 18:15, 31:16, 35:18, 59:17, 59:25, 64:6, marrying [1] - 27:29 met [12] - 33:4, 34:3, 62:16 43:6, 43:11, 49:30, 69:20, 69:22, 70:13, martialled [2] - 13:24, 34:7, 48:16, 56:9, moving [2] - 1:7, 6:27 50:6, 53:3, 53:18, 58:12, 58:13, 58:14, 71:4, 71:25, 73:11, 34:5 MR [43] - 1:3, 1:9, 1:27, 55:15, 56:9, 59:11, 73:30, 74:7, 76:19, Mary [1] - 47:4 64:11, 67:7, 71:8, 74:4 1:29, 2:1, 2:4, 22:5, 62:23, 64:11, 66:26, 76:21 Masters [1] - 8:6 methodology [1] - 28:13 22:8, 22:11, 28:2, 67:29, 71:8, 74:4, 74:5 O'CONNELL [2] - 47:1, material [1] - 22:30 MI5 [3] - 36:20, 43:22, 28:20, 28:23, 32:20, new [1] - 10:20 64:3 matter [14] - 3:30, 5:15, 45:22 32:22, 32:24, 36:2, Newry [2] - 18:10, 35:9 O'Dea [4] - 3:8, 29:15, 14:5, 18:23, 22:13, mid-1980s [2] - 16:23, 36:6, 36:8, 36:10, newspaper [2] - 3:22, 76:3, 76:11 33:8, 44:6, 44:20, 17:2 41:15, 41:20, 41:26, 31:12 O'SULLIVAN [1] - 75:20 44:22, 44:28, 45:30, mid-80s [1] - 17:4 42:8, 42:17, 42:26, newspapers [1] - 22:20 O'Tuathail [1] - 1:7 65:29, 75:26 might [16] - 4:4, 4:5, 4:9, 45:29, 46:11, 59:22, next [4] - 46:13, 76:7, observed [1] - 52:11 matters [4] - 41:28, 42:1, 8:4, 8:19, 9:20, 11:1, 59:25, 63:16, 64:3, 76:26, 77:21 obviously [17] - 2:27, 4:6, 54:19, 74:9 11:18, 14:13, 39:4, 64:4, 64:6, 69:15, night [2] - 21:10, 24:11 7:20, 21:4, 23:12, McGuinness [13] - 22:8, 39:9, 39:27, 42:1, 69:17, 69:20, 75:14, nil [1] - 25:1 24:23, 25:27, 26:18, 22:11, 22:12, 28:2, 56:12, 56:13, 63:14 75:18, 76:26, 77:7, nine [3] - 7:8, 7:20, 11:15 27:25, 28:4, 54:25, 31:28, 59:22, 59:25, mightn't [2] - 12:1, 30:29 77:11, 77:20, 77:27 nobody [1] - 56:17 61:22, 62:15, 63:3, 59:26, 63:12, 63:16, mile [2] - 9:16 MRS [6] - 47:1, 47:4, Noel [2] - 76:7, 76:26 65:7, 66:27, 75:1 64:4, 64:6, 69:15 mill [2] - 73:16, 74:19 59:17, 75:24, 75:26, noise [1] - 39:24 OC [6] - 12:11, 13:16, McTiernan [1] - 77:22 mind [2] - 32:5, 41:20 76:19 non [1] - 23:20 13:26, 13:27, 14:1, mean [37] - 4:15, 5:6, minute [2] - 52:25, 63:14 MS [1] - 75:20 none [5] - 45:27, 67:5, 15:10 8:19, 9:5, 10:4, 12:12, minutes [3] - 11:7, 77:2 multiply [1] - 5:8 70:20, 70:27, 71:3 occasion [7] - 4:16, 8:17, 15:11, 15:19, 16:17, mirror [1] - 5:26 murder [6] - 34:30, 44:14, norm [1] - 5:14 15:24, 20:9, 37:16, 17:12, 17:19, 21:24, misconception [2] - 44:17, 44:24, 45:4, normal [3] - 24:20, 33:22, 42:2, 70:30 23:30, 24:8, 25:6, 26:5, 11:19, 12:14 67:11 38:27 26:15, 26:18, 26:21, occasions [10] - 1:19, misfortune [1] - 76:29 murdered [1] - 6:7 North [7] - 15:7, 16:3, 1:22, 10:9, 15:25, 16:1, 26:29, 27:19, 28:28, misinterpreted [1] - murders [14] - 2:28, 3:3, 16:26, 17:17, 17:26, 31:26, 49:17, 70:22, 30:20, 32:16, 35:8, 40:13 3:8, 3:19, 5:28, 6:4, 18:3, 67:16 37:3, 37:28, 39:14, 70:26, 73:10 misleading [1] - 29:11 10:29, 14:2, 14:4, north [4] - 7:26, 9:10, occupational [1] - 5:12 40:5, 40:17, 45:26, mistook [1] - 77:13 24:28, 34:19, 51:7, 17:7, 21:3 54:1, 59:3, 60:23, occurred [1] - 29:13 mixed [1] - 21:27 51:15, 61:21 Northern [9] - 2:16, 16:7, 65:25, 73:19 occurrence [1] - 4:7 mobile [1] - 12:4 must [10] - 13:18, 37:3, 16:17, 20:23, 20:26, means [4] - 26:19, 59:13, October [1] - 47:20 modestly [1] - 31:2 51:16, 51:17, 51:29, 30:7, 31:7, 31:10, 62:9 59:14, 62:4 odd [1] - 36:17 modus [1] - 6:19 53:21, 55:28, 56:1, northern [9] - 7:6, 7:7, meant [1] - 13:23 OF [2] - 64:3 mole [11] - 3:23, 22:21, 61:23, 61:28 7:19, 7:27, 8:2, 9:10, offence [1] - 9:19 mechanisms [1] - 41:20 22:22, 30:26, 30:27, 15:9, 15:10 meet [3] - 49:12, 53:5, offences [1] - 4:22 33:22, 35:17, 35:23, N note [2] - 1:14, 40:29 72:30 offered [1] - 25:17 62:22, 62:26, 63:6 nothing [23] - 28:11, Nairac [1] - 67:11 office [1] - 20:24 meeting [5] - 20:24, moment [6] - 20:7, 28:12, 29:6, 35:4, 48:24, 50:5, name [23] - 14:19, 18:25, officer [5] - 33:27, 37:17, 27:11, 41:2, 41:3, 41:8 41:28, 42:12, 42:24, 51:19, 56:27, 59:2, 18:26, 18:27, 22:11, 52:6, 65:20, 70:2 meetings [5] - 16:8, 16:9, 73:24 59:13, 59:14, 63:9, 30:12, 45:12, 52:18, officers [12] - 6:4, 10:2, 16:19, 17:25, 19:26 Monaghan [2] - 18:11, 64:15, 65:10, 65:18, 52:21, 52:26, 52:30, member [22] - 4:9, 4:29, 58:9 65:23, 65:30, 67:13, 18:17, 18:18, 33:28, 53:2, 55:6, 55:13, 39:28, 65:21, 69:26, 20:11, 20:30, 21:21, money [1] - 37:22 67:18, 67:29, 69:5,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 7
70:15, 70:19, 73:14 overall [1] - 13:29 73:19 points [2] - 39:7, 39:9 10:15 official [3] - 62:21, 62:23, overview [1] - 9:1 perceived [2] - 14:16, police [6] - 9:27, 10:23, projects [1] - 72:28 62:24 Owen [19] - 16:24, 28:24, 67:25 24:21, 73:13, 73:15 prolonged [1] - 35:21 often [8] - 7:29, 8:2, 40:2, 40:7, 53:1, 53:5, perception [4] - 21:12, policemen [1] - 52:17 prominent [1] - 30:27 23:27, 24:18, 52:12, 53:14, 55:2, 58:23, 38:6, 52:15, 52:16 policing [1] - 24:22 promoted [2] - 47:13, 52:13, 53:4, 61:13 71:5, 71:15, 71:22, perfected [1] - 15:3 political [1] - 37:27 47:16 Ombudsman's [1] - 71:26, 71:29, 72:10, perfectly [1] - 70:9 politically [1] - 37:25 proof [3] - 25:6, 30:21, 44:12 72:16, 73:6, 74:18, performing [1] - 17:5 porter [1] - 26:24 45:11 ON [1] - 1:1 74:21 perhaps [9] - 1:17, 16:14, portion [1] - 64:7 proper [3] - 27:22, 27:25, once [5] - 21:26, 48:11, own [9] - 8:1, 9:13, 18:12, 23:21, 25:18, 27:24, portray [1] - 29:11 42:11 51:26, 57:4, 59:28 24:21, 37:30, 38:9, 28:3, 41:26, 53:26, 68:6 portraying [1] - 30:5 property [1] - 48:18 one [35] - 1:22, 1:25, 50:2, 56:25 period [6] - 4:1, 12:18, position [2] - 55:28, proposed [1] - 68:11 5:12, 6:18, 6:25, 7:5, owned [1] - 32:4 25:25, 26:16, 29:13, 76:28 prosecute [1] - 24:24 8:20, 9:24, 11:6, 13:6, 35:22 possession [1] - 49:9 protect [3] - 24:14, 43:26, 13:23, 15:10, 15:15, P periods [1] - 2:21 possibilities [1] - 63:3 48:29 15:21, 21:19, 23:19, person [13] - 12:15, possibility [4] - 61:22, protecting [2] - 23:29, papers [1] - 40:26 27:11, 28:3, 28:12, 17:13, 18:25, 18:27, 62:7, 62:15, 62:27 27:9 pardon [1] - 52:3 32:7, 32:25, 37:15, 20:2, 26:8, 35:26, possible [5] - 24:26, protection [1] - 23:23 Park [1] - 76:14 38:30, 41:21, 41:27, 35:29, 37:29, 38:22, 25:18, 28:10, 62:12, protocols [1] - 9:26 part [13] - 2:13, 6:2, 6:12, 52:26, 54:21, 57:2, 45:11, 65:4 66:10 proven [1] - 66:29 9:28, 21:7, 22:29, 60:6, 62:12, 63:12, person's [1] - 52:26 possibly [4] - 39:4, 40:7, provide [1] - 60:2 24:24, 31:25, 32:3, 64:8, 64:30, 75:26 personal [3] - 27:5, 27:7, 40:25, 55:27 provided [3] - 18:7, 19:6, 44:16, 59:30, 73:12 ongoing [1] - 44:17 52:9 postal [1] - 10:22 32:17 particular [16] - 5:27, open [1] - 32:5 personally [3] - 19:20, potential [1] - 51:4 Provisional [3] - 5:19, 13:15, 14:14, 14:29, operandi [1] - 6:19 31:12, 49:30 practical [2] - 26:6, 26:22 71:30, 72:1 15:23, 17:9, 23:7, operate [5] - 6:10, 9:24, personnel [3] - 8:17, precautions [5] - 17:18, pub [1] - 32:4 24:28, 25:16, 34:23, 9:27, 10:14, 38:26 12:30, 13:20 17:20, 17:24, 18:1, public [5] - 13:1, 32:12, 48:18, 48:26, 49:13, operated [2] - 6:11, 15:13 Peter [15] - 3:15, 3:16, 18:13 32:15, 41:29, 74:8 52:26, 54:23, 64:17 operation [20] - 6:13, 18:26, 19:29, 30:12, precise [1] - 62:5 publications [4] - 22:25, particularly [4] - 6:9, 6:16, 6:29, 8:28, 9:28, 41:1, 41:3, 42:26, precisely [1] - 61:26 31:11, 40:26, 40:27 11:27, 37:19, 40:2 10:29, 11:2, 11:23, 42:29, 43:11, 43:16, predecessor [1] - 60:14 published [2] - 22:30, 13:15, 15:15, 23:7, parties [1] - 54:9 44:5, 44:29, 45:13, prefer [1] - 29:21 23:8 24:19, 25:15, 25:22, partition [1] - 7:14 45:23 preferable [1] - 41:26 purpose [3] - 27:12, party [3] - 46:3, 53:21, 25:28, 26:2, 44:26, phased [1] - 11:9 premises [1] - 10:9 60:21, 69:23 62:14 51:22, 51:23 phenomenon [1] - 24:21 prepared [2] - 6:22, 32:12 put [23] - 4:26, 6:30, 7:6, pass [3] - 33:23, 33:26, operational [3] - 7:10, Phoenix [1] - 76:13 presence [3] - 9:10, 15:11, 15:16, 17:24, 8:19, 44:29 34:6 phone [1] - 76:29 61:29, 61:30 25:18, 25:22, 26:1, operationally [1] - 25:17 passed [6] - 13:30, 14:11, phones [1] - 12:4 presented [1] - 27:27 26:6, 26:14, 27:26, operations [10] - 6:16, 26:9, 49:29, 50:13, phrase [2] - 37:10, 38:30 press [5] - 40:28, 41:2, 29:1, 34:16, 38:7, 6:21, 6:30, 22:18, 50:25 physically [4] - 28:28, 51:13, 51:14 38:21, 40:9, 40:10, 23:10, 24:18, 36:14, passing [3] - 53:30, 28:29, 28:30, 29:9 pressure [1] - 11:23 41:4, 42:27, 50:11, 39:13, 61:7, 61:10 66:25, 66:28 pick [2] - 50:10, 61:13 presumably [8] - 43:10, 61:14 operative [1] - 11:21 Patrick [1] - 19:14 picked [2] - 50:12, 50:25 43:13, 48:30, 49:1, putting [3] - 4:1, 17:15, operatives [1] - 7:27 patrol [1] - 48:24 picture [5] - 4:4, 26:4, 52:1, 54:24, 68:25, 25:28 opinion [16] - 5:5, 10:1, patrols [1] - 39:4 43:17, 43:19, 50:30 72:14 14:3, 18:8, 22:16, 27:4, paying [1] - 21:15 pieces [2] - 27:29, 61:13 presume [3] - 50:17, Q 43:2, 52:10, 54:3, 59:8, peace [1] - 20:4 pin [1] - 64:22 54:26, 69:22 60:20, 62:19, 63:2, peers [1] - 56:8 quarter [1] - 5:13 pinpointing [1] - 24:5 pretty [5] - 2:20, 2:22, 69:11, 74:14, 74:18 people [64] - 1:24, 3:26, quarters [1] - 5:4 place [14] - 3:27, 7:6, 11:4, 12:1, 12:23 opportunity [1] - 6:18 5:9, 5:11, 5:23, 6:27, questioned [2] - 44:23, 11:5, 11:8, 13:3, 15:11, Prevention [1] - 44:7 opposed [2] - 20:6, 27:16 8:1, 8:4, 10:27, 11:6, 45:3 15:16, 17:24, 20:22, previous [3] - 48:4, opposition [1] - 17:14 11:18, 11:21, 12:12, questioning [2] - 33:1, 26:14, 31:18, 54:16, 70:26, 71:18 or.. [2] - 4:5, 56:8 14:11, 17:13, 17:21, 48:4 56:24, 74:3 previously [1] - 8:12 order [3] - 23:9, 25:22, 17:22, 18:11, 20:24, questions [13] - 22:6, places [1] - 38:7 primacy [1] - 13:20 68:14 21:13, 26:15, 26:19, 28:24, 32:25, 36:4, plain [1] - 35:24 principles [2] - 37:8, 37:9 ordinary [4] - 60:8, 60:18, 27:9, 27:20, 30:4, 36:11, 42:13, 42:23, plan [1] - 26:1 prisoners [2] - 5:7, 5:11 60:24, 60:30 30:29, 31:9, 34:10, 46:2, 70:13, 73:28, planned [2] - 25:22, privy [5] - 35:23, 61:18, organisation [8] - 5:16, 38:4, 38:26, 38:30, 75:16, 75:18, 75:20 25:26 66:24, 67:21, 76:12 5:21, 11:5, 24:10, 37:5, 41:9, 45:8, 48:12, quickly [1] - 62:14 planning [2] - 25:27, probability [1] - 26:2 39:15, 45:16, 54:26 48:16, 48:28, 49:9, quite [4] - 26:14, 49:15, 34:18 problem [4] - 13:8, 14:6, 49:12, 49:25, 50:13, 58:16, 58:20 organisations [1] - 5:24 played [1] - 4:30 50:19, 53:21, 53:29, 35:8, 58:3 organised [1] - 48:17 playing [1] - 30:6 54:1, 54:26, 55:21, process [3] - 20:4, 38:29, organiser [1] - 38:17 pleases [1] - 45:29 R 55:27, 56:11, 57:16, 49:27 otherwise [1] - 66:4 plus [1] - 60:21 57:17, 60:22, 66:16, processing [1] - 24:13 radios [5] - 11:28, 39:10, ourselves [1] - 52:5 72:5, 72:21, 72:22, point [9] - 11:16, 12:17, proffer [1] - 70:17 39:12, 39:21, 39:22 outline [1] - 57:5 17:11, 21:2, 40:4, 72:24, 72:25, 72:26, progress [1] - 6:1 RAFFERTY [6] - 36:6, outrageous [1] - 17:16 72:27, 72:30, 73:18, 42:12, 68:18, 68:26, progressed [2] - 4:4, 36:10, 41:20, 42:8, outside [1] - 35:9 73:15
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 8
42:26, 45:29 regime [1] - 15:12 rife [1] - 37:20 24:1, 31:9, 31:13, shooting [2] - 21:26, 22:1 RAFFRTY [1] - 36:8 regimented [1] - 8:11 rings [1] - 76:30 32:18, 34:7, 34:19, short [6] - 2:21, 18:5, rampant [1] - 11:28 regrettably [1] - 37:15 rise [1] - 77:1 49:27, 49:30, 53:11, 18:12, 26:16, 26:17, range [1] - 43:14 regular [1] - 16:9 risk [6] - 53:11, 54:14, 53:27, 54:14, 54:16, 76:17 rank [1] - 2:7 regularity [1] - 12:22 54:16, 68:9, 75:9, 75:11 54:17, 75:9, 75:11 short-term [1] - 18:5 rate [1] - 31:19 reinforcements [1] - 60:2 road [1] - 62:30 Security [8] - 2:13, 2:28, shortage [1] - 60:4 rather [5] - 9:1, 16:15, relate [3] - 64:17, 64:22, role [6] - 4:30, 5:28, 17:3, 19:2, 25:10, 28:7, shortly [3] - 6:5, 6:6, 18:17, 27:24, 71:5 65:11 20:19, 20:29, 30:6 28:14, 29:16, 58:27 49:15 RE [1] - 75:24 relates [1] - 64:20 route [3] - 26:8, 62:11, see [18] - 1:23, 7:5, 8:25, shot [1] - 13:24 re [3] - 41:30, 59:18, relating [6] - 5:29, 23:26, 62:13 10:25, 10:29, 11:12, show [2] - 13:11, 13:12 75:22 24:13, 24:30, 29:26, routes [1] - 17:29 14:6, 14:27, 26:7, showed [1] - 12:20 re-attend [1] - 59:18 42:1 routine [1] - 5:5 31:11, 35:18, 38:23, shrewd [1] - 35:28 re-examination [1] - relation [19] - 16:22, 20:1, Royal [1] - 70:29 44:5, 49:27, 50:30, side [2] - 36:26, 38:28 75:22 25:16, 27:13, 36:16, RUC [31] - 6:4, 9:18, 9:23, 54:10, 73:12, 74:13 sign [1] - 11:15 RE-EXAMINED [1] - 38:10, 39:21, 39:27, 10:2, 14:8, 14:28, seeing [4] - 10:12, 29:8, silly [1] - 50:4 75:24 40:7, 42:26, 44:12, 15:25, 16:23, 19:27, 62:11, 62:13 similar [3] - 16:3, 26:25, re-interviewed [1] - 41:30 44:14, 48:2, 49:27, 25:8, 25:10, 26:20, seek [3] - 5:16, 70:10, 56:20 reach [2] - 32:8, 56:2 59:27, 64:14, 68:20, 33:17, 33:20, 33:24, 74:29 simple [1] - 38:29 reaching [1] - 29:25 68:30, 69:6 33:26, 36:21, 43:8, seem [3] - 14:28, 30:5, simplest [1] - 57:22 54:27 read [7] - 13:18, 23:3, relationship [1] - 58:20 43:16, 43:21, 45:22, simply [5] - 48:23, 48:29, 26:27, 31:2, 31:4, relatively [2] - 6:25, 12:9 49:16, 61:29, 68:27, self [2] - 8:18, 13:10 53:19, 54:18, 73:18 71:12, 73:12 relevance [2] - 29:23, 69:26, 70:3, 70:15, self-contained [1] - 8:18 Siochana [18] - 2:5, 4:9, readily [2] - 9:25, 11:11 32:9 70:18, 73:9, 73:17 self-sufficient [1] - 13:10 4:18, 10:18, 21:21, reading [2] - 51:24 relevant [1] - 44:4 rule [3] - 37:8, 39:14, sending [1] - 48:12 22:12, 27:20, 31:17, real [1] - 18:26 reliable [2] - 29:28, 31:7 43:26 sends [1] - 77:13 31:25, 32:30, 36:21, realise [1] - 63:17 remained [1] - 2:20 ruling [1] - 42:8 senior [3] - 1:16, 38:18, 37:1, 37:4, 40:1, 47:6, really [16] - 8:29, 11:9, remember [9] - 13:18, rumour [11] - 27:22, 73:14 54:21, 57:1, 59:26 12:5, 12:19, 22:17, 37:3, 51:24, 52:25, 31:30, 54:9, 54:24, sense [3] - 4:9, 4:19, 5:16 sit [1] - 30:26 22:24, 23:6, 23:11, 58:14, 64:25, 72:29, 55:17, 71:7, 72:16, sensible [1] - 63:19 sitting [2] - 36:29, 36:30 23:15, 30:23, 31:1, 72:30 73:6, 73:16, 74:19 sensitive [5] - 54:15, situation [6] - 17:20, 31:28, 50:5, 51:18, remove [1] - 41:5 rumours [15] - 55:28, 54:16, 70:22, 74:2, 74:3 21:26, 28:16, 57:2, 58:30, 60:22 removed [1] - 35:8 56:2, 56:17, 71:6, sent [6] - 47:14, 47:17, 57:3, 68:24 realm [1] - 14:20 repeat [1] - 72:12 71:15, 71:22, 72:4, 50:17, 52:13, 55:9, 65:8 six [2] - 38:28, 73:10 reason [4] - 14:14, 29:23, reply [1] - 76:29 73:19, 73:20, 73:22, sentence [1] - 34:5 sleep [1] - 24:11 59:30, 68:23 report [7] - 56:21, 65:7, 74:10, 75:2, 75:10, sentenced [2] - 57:9, slick [1] - 6:29 reasons [5] - 15:1, 27:8, 65:28, 65:30, 74:25, 76:10 57:10 slightly [1] - 74:8 58:24, 60:6, 68:6 76:6, 77:2 run [1] - 27:9 September [2] - 58:1, small [2] - 12:19, 31:8 recalled [1] - 41:30 Report [1] - 44:12 runner [1] - 60:14 73:11 smallest [1] - 50:10 receive [1] - 24:18 representation [7] - 1:5, running [1] - 11:5 SEPTEMBER [2] - 1:1, smugglers [2] - 11:30, received [2] - 16:23, 1:11, 1:12, 1:17, 1:19, runs [1] - 18:12 78:4 38:21 17:10 1:22, 1:24 Sergeant [18] - 16:24, smuggling [21] - 6:14, recent [1] - 23:4 reputation [7] - 55:21, S 20:20, 25:11, 28:9, 6:26, 21:14, 32:28, recognise [1] - 7:14 55:26, 56:14, 56:16, 32:24, 47:14, 59:10, 37:19, 37:22, 37:27, safe [1] - 69:13 recollection [1] - 18:9 56:30, 64:28, 67:25 59:12, 66:6, 67:1, 67:6, 38:3, 38:5, 38:6, 38:11, salient [1] - 73:15 recommend [2] - 74:22, request [1] - 18:6 67:22, 67:27, 68:2, 38:12, 38:17, 38:19, satisfy [1] - 42:9 74:27 require [1] - 48:21 68:11, 68:21, 68:26, 38:20, 39:3, 39:12, saw [3] - 9:14, 25:6, 69:5 record [3] - 10:26, 44:6, required [3] - 11:7, 20:8, 39:28, 39:29, 40:10, 53:18 71:10 30:30 Sergeants [1] - 60:11 40:18 scene [2] - 2:18, 20:27 recorded [1] - 33:11 requirement [1] - 1:23 serious [5] - 4:7, 4:14, so-called [2] - 13:19, scheduled [1] - 16:9 33:8, 59:7, 69:29 recording [1] - 24:30 requires [2] - 1:15, 24:21 34:12 Seamus [1] - 15:12 seriously [3] - 4:6, 56:17, records [2] - 13:11, 33:10 requisite [1] - 26:1 so-forth [2] - 39:5, 39:10 Sean [2] - 1:10, 46:14 75:2 recover [2] - 12:6, 12:7 respect [5] - 10:29, 14:2, societal [1] - 5:3 SEAN [1] - 47:1 seriousness [1] - 70:5 recovered [1] - 10:10 31:21, 31:29, 75:9 society [1] - 5:12 search [2] - 49:7, 49:20 served [3] - 2:10, 2:11, recruits [1] - 10:20 response [1] - 60:21 soft [4] - 27:26, 40:8, searches [8] - 10:9, 17:6, 47:11 reduce [1] - 68:9 responsibility [1] - 24:8 40:9, 48:3 48:17, 48:18, 48:30, service [4] - 31:9, 34:25, reference [3] - 7:3, 18:23, rest [2] - 45:29, 59:19 solely [1] - 49:20 49:17 68:1, 68:20 55:4 restricting [2] - 62:3, 62:5 Solicitor [1] - 1:10 seconded [1] - 8:17 serving [2] - 32:30, 33:3 referred [6] - 1:18, 1:21, result [2] - 22:27, 56:24 solicitor [4] - 1:15, 1:22, seconding [1] - 8:1 session [6] - 41:11, 22:20, 24:16, 26:12, RESUMED [2] - 1:1, 77:9 1:25, 77:12 secondment [1] - 8:5 41:18, 41:24, 42:5, 48:4 retire [1] - 58:6 solid [1] - 21:12 secret [1] - 66:16 42:15, 42:19 referring [2] - 22:21, retired [6] - 2:7, 29:17, someone [19] - 28:9, section [1] - 33:14 72:22 32:24, 47:21, 51:11, set [2] - 57:4, 66:14 30:13, 51:17, 54:5, Section [1] - 44:7 setting [1] - 36:14 regard [7] - 29:27, 29:30, 55:1 54:15, 54:20, 54:22, sections [1] - 31:4 Shannon [2] - 47:17, 30:2, 33:13, 63:3, 69:7, retirement [1] - 2:20 56:1, 59:6, 61:23, security [27] - 7:9, 9:10, 48:12 69:9 retiring [1] - 51:11 61:28, 62:29, 65:4, 15:16, 16:25, 17:18, Sheehan [1] - 1:10 regarded [3] - 58:30, returned [1] - 20:25 66:17, 67:25, 74:1, 17:19, 17:24, 18:1, shifted [1] - 68:22 74:2, 75:3 revealing [1] - 24:4 75:3, 75:6 18:6, 21:20, 23:17, shocked [1] - 4:11 regards [1] - 55:13 review [3] - 22:30, 68:15 sometime [2] - 58:4,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 9
58:18 18:8 65:16 Task [15] - 17:4, 48:12, today [3] - 38:27, 46:7, sometimes [4] - 26:12, stage [12] - 7:6, 11:4, successes [1] - 67:21 48:13, 48:23, 49:3, 52:22 35:4, 49:13, 50:5 11:29, 29:2, 29:10, successful [1] - 13:4 49:19, 59:27, 59:28, together [4] - 33:3, 50:11, somewhat [2] - 6:17, 29:19, 29:21, 48:9, succour [2] - 39:17, 60:1, 60:7, 60:14, 61:14, 76:5 14:30 58:13, 59:18, 67:4, 39:18 60:17, 60:26, 61:3, 61:8 Tom [7] - 57:24, 57:25, somewhere [2] - 68:10, 67:28 sufficient [2] - 13:10, tea [1] - 50:18 57:26, 58:9, 58:11, 59:5 68:22 standards [1] - 37:17 77:27 team [3] - 21:1, 21:7, tomorrow [2] - 77:16, sophisticated [3] - 11:5, start [5] - 22:1, 31:18, suggest [3] - 65:25, 77:1, 26:13 78:1 26:13, 57:21 61:25, 69:9, 69:22 77:20 teamed [1] - 20:26 tonnes [1] - 12:15 sorry [12] - 3:14, 3:16, State [3] - 23:17, 32:18, suggested [6] - 12:22, teaming [1] - 15:14 took [6] - 13:3, 17:19, 21:24, 28:3, 38:9, 40:6, 54:23 16:24, 21:8, 43:3, 70:9, teams [1] - 15:11 17:29, 20:22, 21:29, 41:2, 56:3, 63:17, statement [5] - 19:8, 77:15 technology [2] - 12:2, 33:4 72:12, 74:16, 75:29 19:11, 24:29, 33:2, 67:9 suggesting [10] - 53:11, 12:3 towards [1] - 32:7 sort [15] - 5:3, 7:25, 8:11, Statement [1] - 1:20 66:16, 70:14, 70:16, televisions [1] - 33:5 trained [3] - 60:13, 60:28, 29:12, 50:12, 51:2, States [1] - 16:19 70:21, 70:24, 70:25, ten [1] - 55:21 73:13 51:29, 56:18, 57:1, stating [2] - 71:4, 75:10 70:28, 71:1, 71:2 tended [1] - 8:18 training [3] - 60:7, 60:8, 62:19, 69:4, 73:25, station [7] - 49:6, 50:16, suggestion [1] - 35:23 term [2] - 18:5, 27:29 60:10 73:27, 73:29, 76:28 50:22, 52:15, 52:16, suit [1] - 77:18 terms [23] - 7:12, 10:23, Tralee [5] - 47:14, 55:7, sorts [1] - 39:25 53:29, 62:30 suitable [1] - 6:12 14:8, 14:18, 17:6, 55:9, 55:12, 55:25 sounds [1] - 49:23 Station [8] - 6:5, 16:25, summation [1] - 71:7 23:12, 23:26, 24:12, transfer [2] - 68:5, 69:7 source [11] - 3:30, 20:15, 49:19, 52:6, 52:8, Superintendent [17] - 24:16, 25:8, 27:2, transferred [4] - 47:12, 20:17, 23:29, 34:24, 53:21, 62:22, 62:26 2:29, 3:11, 3:12, 10:30, 27:10, 34:29, 35:2, 47:17, 68:2, 68:16 39:10, 43:10, 43:13, stationed [2] - 51:9, 15:28, 18:14, 24:30, 36:12, 61:12, 61:19, trap [3] - 57:4, 57:7, 44:3, 49:18, 74:17 60:25 58:1, 58:2, 58:9, 58:19, 61:20, 62:19, 63:2, 66:14 sources [14] - 5:17, stations [1] - 60:26 67:26, 67:30 65:14, 65:28, 67:1 travel [1] - 48:9 14:16, 19:28, 23:1, stay [1] - 11:24 Superintendents [1] - terribly [1] - 8:11 travelled [4] - 16:18, 23:20, 24:10, 37:13, stayed [1] - 47:20 62:17 Terrorism [1] - 44:7 21:21, 58:25, 59:5 43:12, 43:14, 43:18, step [2] - 4:19, 58:29 superior [1] - 57:1 terrorism [2] - 8:21, 20:3 travelling [1] - 17:22 45:19, 45:21, 47:28, steps [5] - 56:15, 56:18, superiors [2] - 74:22, terrorists [1] - 6:24 treacherous [1] - 50:3 62:9 56:30, 68:19, 69:6 74:25 test [2] - 31:14, 57:12 Tribunal [21] - 3:6, 16:21, south [18] - 6:7, 7:21, still [4] - 48:12, 54:29, supplement [1] - 61:4 testing [1] - 12:19 27:28, 29:24, 29:26, 7:23, 10:2, 11:3, 11:8, 55:7, 55:22 supplied [1] - 13:1 that's.. [1] - 77:25 32:10, 32:12, 32:17, 15:17, 15:18, 15:29, stock [1] - 13:2 support [1] - 41:15 THE [16] - 1:1, 22:8, 38:25, 40:18, 40:25, 18:3, 18:4, 20:3, 21:4, stockpiles [1] - 13:6 suppose [20] - 4:8, 5:3, 28:20, 32:22, 36:8, 41:22, 47:5, 54:8, 34:22, 38:2, 38:10, stood [1] - 71:30 5:15, 5:23, 6:3, 6:9, 46:9, 59:22, 63:22, 54:10, 56:28, 58:4, 38:11, 38:16 stop [2] - 41:21, 56:18 7:14, 7:17, 8:9, 9:9, 64:1, 69:17, 75:24, 65:27, 67:9, 69:23, South [7] - 6:10, 7:3, stopped [1] - 10:27 13:14, 16:14, 23:5, 76:24, 77:9, 78:3 70:10 8:13, 15:7, 25:16, 27:2, stories [2] - 56:4, 56:29 29:23, 36:19, 37:12, themselves [5] - 5:28, TRIBUNAL [5] - 1:1, 37:24 storing [1] - 13:8 41:21, 42:17, 48:5, 6:17, 6:25, 27:9, 30:5 63:22, 64:1, 77:9, 78:3 southern [4] - 7:7, 7:30, story [1] - 51:27 49:25 THEN [2] - 46:9, 76:24 tribunal [1] - 74:8 8:6 strange [1] - 49:10 surplus [1] - 11:17 theory [2] - 38:7, 38:24 tricking [1] - 21:14 Special [8] - 2:11, 25:9, strata [1] - 5:12 surprised [3] - 4:8, 54:27, there'd [1] - 17:21 tried [3] - 5:24, 11:29, 28:14, 36:20, 44:2, Street [6] - 47:11, 52:2, 55:20 thereabouts [1] - 2:16 73:9 45:22, 47:12, 67:15 53:17, 53:30, 54:25, surveillance [7] - 25:30, thereafter [1] - 42:18 trigger [1] - 14:14 specialist [1] - 60:8 76:11 26:4, 26:6, 26:13, therefore [6] - 7:20, trip [1] - 62:8 specially [1] - 60:13 strenuously [1] - 71:30 62:16, 65:29 50:11, 62:7, 66:24, trouble [1] - 56:12 specific [16] - 9:3, 17:17, stretching [1] - 9:16 Surveillance [1] - 2:12 67:21, 75:1 troubles [5] - 2:16, 30:6, 19:20, 27:12, 35:2, structure [3] - 7:25, 8:8, suspected [2] - 45:8, thinking [2] - 37:1, 50:24 30:11, 31:6, 34:12 40:21, 48:24, 53:3, 8:9 66:25 thinks [1] - 57:19 true [6] - 30:20, 30:21, 60:20, 64:14, 64:15, structured [2] - 12:27, suspecting [1] - 66:28 thousand [2] - 22:2 36:28, 57:19, 66:29, 65:18, 70:12, 72:18, 14:17 suspicion [2] - 63:10, thousands [1] - 11:19 73:20 73:5, 73:8 structures [1] - 7:15 65:17 threat [1] - 53:28 trusted [1] - 11:29 specifically [2] - 7:3, 62:3 stuff [5] - 48:28, 57:21, swaying [1] - 32:7 three [7] - 7:11, 10:9, trustworthy [1] - 29:30 speculation [2] - 3:22, 73:25, 73:28, 73:29 SWORN [2] - 2:1, 47:1 24:10, 49:16, 57:15, truth [2] - 30:24, 74:12 21:17 stupid [1] - 50:5 sympathies [1] - 50:13 57:17, 66:16 try [2] - 29:22, 61:14 speed [1] - 9:27 subject [1] - 38:8 system [2] - 11:29, 35:6 throughout [2] - 2:10, trying [13] - 5:23, 8:3, spend [1] - 53:13 subsequent [1] - 33:11 Síochána [7] - 69:24, 6:19 23:13, 29:11, 29:14, split [1] - 12:10 subsequently [2] - 40:1, 69:30, 70:3, 70:29, thrust [1] - 4:27 29:20, 36:26, 36:27, spoken [1] - 22:25 40:4 71:26, 73:17, 73:23 THURSDAY [1] - 78:3 36:29, 64:22, 66:17, spotters [3] - 26:10, substantiate [1] - 72:14 Tierney [1] - 67:26 74:6, 76:27 26:17, 26:19 subversion [8] - 3:28, T tight [2] - 6:11, 8:13 turn [5] - 11:25, 33:26, spread [2] - 13:7, 73:19 5:14, 17:6, 20:1, 23:14, tip [5] - 51:25, 51:30, 38:29, 39:17, 39:19 Square [12] - 47:18, tail [1] - 40:4 24:20, 24:25, 31:6 61:27, 62:4, 62:6 turned [1] - 60:15 48:11, 51:10, 51:13, tandem [1] - 67:30 subversive [6] - 2:24, tip-off [5] - 51:25, 51:30, twelve [1] - 38:27 58:2, 61:17, 62:21, target [1] - 14:8 3:28, 5:16, 43:16, 61:27, 62:4, 62:6 two [17] - 6:4, 15:13, 64:8, 68:12, 71:14, targets [3] - 14:23, 14:29, 45:14, 76:1 tipped [3] - 51:17, 61:23, 15:14, 21:5, 22:2, 24:9, 71:17, 76:15 14:30 subversives [5] - 2:18, 61:28 29:17, 31:26, 32:25, staff [3] - 14:11, 15:13, task [1] - 10:21 47:24, 52:7, 65:14, to.. [1] - 50:7 38:26, 41:20, 57:15,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 September 2011 - Day 33 10
63:14, 63:20, 69:25, upfront [1] - 39:16 wish [3] - 32:14, 41:10, 70:15, 70:18 useful [1] - 41:17 63:14 Twomey [1] - 15:12 utilising [1] - 26:7 wished [1] - 58:24 type [19] - 6:13, 6:16, 8:8, utmost [1] - 70:5 WITHDREW [2] - 46:9, 11:22, 11:26, 12:2, 76:24 17:30, 18:11, 24:16, V witness [12] - 1:29, 41:17, 24:22, 26:25, 27:28, 41:22, 41:27, 42:24, 35:3, 35:27, 35:30, valuable [3] - 24:18, 46:13, 48:4, 73:9, 76:7, 37:28, 40:19, 72:25, 34:24, 48:2 76:26, 77:21, 77:28 76:1 vans [1] - 33:4 WITNESS [9] - 22:8, varied [1] - 17:19 28:20, 32:22, 36:8, U variety [2] - 22:30, 68:6 46:9, 59:22, 69:17, various [5] - 12:27, 45:19, 75:24, 76:24 Ulster [3] - 7:8, 7:20, 47:28, 56:22, 58:24 Witness [1] - 67:19 70:29 variously [1] - 2:10 wonder [1] - 55:23 unable [1] - 55:6 vast [1] - 13:12 wondering [1] - 49:21 unauthorised [1] - 13:22 venture [1] - 35:9 word [5] - 9:6, 44:30, under [9] - 7:11, 7:27, versa [1] - 16:1 53:3, 53:8, 71:16 13:26, 15:9, 15:12, vice [1] - 16:1 words [1] - 72:23 19:3, 21:11, 28:14, 44:7 view [22] - 9:13, 17:12, workings [1] - 7:29 understandable [1] - 21:2, 21:18, 21:29, world [1] - 73:14 77:14 22:15, 25:17, 27:6, worst [1] - 54:21 understood [1] - 39:23 27:15, 37:23, 39:7, writing [3] - 33:11, 35:19, undetected [1] - 35:27 39:9, 49:21, 49:23, 66:4 undoubtedly [1] - 30:8 51:22, 62:21, 62:23, written [2] - 1:11, 53:18 unexpected [1] - 5:4 62:24, 62:26, 63:2, wrongly [1] - 56:22 unfair [1] - 74:8 68:1, 68:18 unfairness [1] - 74:13 views [2] - 21:27, 58:29 Y unfortunate [1] - 69:25 vindicate [1] - 70:10 unfortunately [1] - 35:10 vis [2] - 51:13 year [3] - 3:10, 29:17, uniform [2] - 35:24, 47:11 vis-a-vis [1] - 51:13 51:11 Unit [2] - 2:12, 8:13 visit [2] - 6:4, 16:2 years [25] - 3:4, 4:13, unit [4] - 8:14, 27:10, visitors [1] - 50:20 6:20, 6:28, 9:13, 10:15, 34:22, 60:21 visits [1] - 62:16 12:18, 20:1, 24:19, units [4] - 7:30, 13:25, vital [5] - 23:13, 23:21, 30:8, 30:11, 32:14, 14:25, 15:7 23:22, 23:23, 24:14 36:17, 43:1, 52:11, Units [1] - 25:16 volunteers [2] - 11:11, 52:19, 54:28, 55:2, unlawful [1] - 13:22 11:12 55:5, 55:22, 58:13, unless [3] - 9:17, 59:6, voters [1] - 10:23 71:18, 71:27, 75:28, 63:12 75:30 unlikely [1] - 21:30 W young [1] - 76:4 unsubstantiated [1] - yourself [4] - 31:23, 71:22 war [2] - 36:17, 36:23 55:28, 57:28, 74:22 unsung [1] - 31:3 warned [1] - 49:18 yourselves [1] - 52:4 UNTIL [1] - 78:3 WAS [9] - 2:1, 22:8, untrue [1] - 56:18 28:20, 32:22, 36:8, untrustworthy [2] - 53:9, 47:1, 59:22, 69:17, 65:4 75:24 unusual [6] - 30:25, 49:6, washing [1] - 37:22 49:8, 49:24, 55:17, ways [3] - 57:21, 60:13, 58:29 66:20 unwritten [1] - 43:26 weaknesses [1] - 53:27 up [46] - 4:19, 5:20, 6:27, weaponry [7] - 13:21, 9:15, 10:19, 11:4, 13:22, 15:2, 15:3, 27:2, 11:14, 11:25, 12:2, 27:4 12:30, 15:14, 20:26, weapons [5] - 12:7, 21:3, 21:16, 22:27, 12:17, 12:26, 12:29, 30:13, 35:9, 35:10, 13:15 36:14, 42:28, 43:4, weekend [1] - 73:2 48:13, 48:23, 48:25, whatsoever [3] - 45:15, 48:27, 49:11, 49:26, 45:27, 54:12 50:12, 50:25, 51:27, whereas [2] - 49:24, 52:14, 52:19, 53:2, 76:14 53:19, 57:30, 59:6, whistles [1] - 39:23 61:1, 61:13, 65:8, 66:3, whole [3] - 12:18, 42:19, 71:30, 73:1, 74:11, 75:4 49:27 up-to-date [1] - 12:2 wide [4] - 22:30, 30:23, updated [1] - 10:15 33:14, 43:14
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.