Interview with Phillip Edwardson, M.D.

Interviewed on December 14,2001

Interviewed for the Minnesota Psychiatric Society

Interviewed by David Cline, M.D.

Phillip Edwardson: -PE David Cline: -DC

[I'm Dr. David Cline, at the Minneapolis] Children's Residential Treatment Center, part of Volunteers of America, for this interview with Phil Edwardson--- today, on the 14th of December, 2001, to have a discussion about Phil and his career in child . Mid-to-LateProject DC: So, Phil, what I'd like to do is just hear from you about your practice in child psychiatry, how you became interested in it and your background and what started you to be interested. Maybe we could start with you telling some about yourthe family of origin and who was all in that and even if you would tell us where they came fromin and yourHistory long-termSociety heritage. PE: OK. My father, like I, grew up in Minneapolis. His parents had emigrated from - well, his father from Norway, and his mother from Sweden.Oral DC: About when would that have been? PE: That would have been around the previous tumHistorical of the century [1900]. Actually, his father emigrated to find a better living.Psychiatry His mother came to visit her sisters but never made it back to Sweden, met my grandfather andCentury married and settled down. My father was an only child because his mother had had a still-birth before him, but he essentially was an only child. He was interested in music but his mother would have nothing to do with that because she knew musicians had used drugs, so instead he went to the University [of Minnesota] and became a pharmacist, and that was acceptable to her, even though he was surrounded by drugs [laughter], and learned in his pharmacognocy class to identify marijuana, and he found it growing on the grade schoolMinnesota playground that Minnesota year, the grade school that he had attended. Twentieth My mother was a farm girl, one of the farm children. Her father never owned any farm, so he was what the Southerners would call a share-cropper. She was the first in her family to go to high school, and then went to business school up here in the cities.

DC: Where was that farm that she grew up on?

PE: On several farms in the northeastern comer of Iowa, out on the King [?] County line. She met my father and asked him to ... He did study piano, but he never became a professional musician. She was outgoing enough to be the one from her social club to ask him to play the piano for a meeting they were having, so she contacted him and then that relationship developed, and they married. I'm the older of two children; my sister is six years younger. I developed an interest in music, too. I went along with my father to his piano lessons, so by age five I was getting part of the time and I was starting to learn to play the piano. So, my initial interests were in music. As far as , my 5th grade teacher told me I should be a doctor, but I didn't really think of myself as heading that direction at that time.

DC: What do you think your fifth grade teacher saw in you that prompted that recommendation?

PE: I never asked her. I'm sure she's not around now, but it would be interesting to find out what it was, whether it was she thought that because I could play the piano that I could do or because I was a good student - I don't know.

DC: You were a good student? PE: Yeah. I was a good student - most areas. In the 9th grade, for one of myProject classes, probably social studies, we had to write a paper on a career, and we hadMid-to-Late some library time, and nobody else was looking at the library information on medicine, so I started reading about that, and thought that would be a way that I could serve other people, have a meaningful occupation. It might have been around the same time that two of my themusic teachers were encouraging me to go into medicine. I never knew for sure how much thatin was a functionHistory of my musical ability or lack of it or the fact that they didn't think that that was the best use of mySociety abilities. I know my trumpet teacher had wanted to go into medicine, but after he got out of the navy he just didn't have the ambition to go through that much schooling. At any rate, so that's when I seriously considered going into medicine, and from 9th gradeOral on I planned on that.

I didn't have any idea about psychiatry until I wrote my freshman term paper, freshman English paper, in college. I had to choose a subject, and I hadHistorical heard this term psychosomatic medicine. I didn't know what it was, andPsychiatry I thought it might be interesting to find out about it, so I should pick that as a subject for a freshmanCentury term paper. I had to narrow it down, of course, so I wrote on the psychosomatic aspects of asthma. I picked that because my younger sister had had asthma as a child and suffered with that. I remember seeing her wheezing away and having trouble breathing. Reading the literature on psychiatric aspects of asthma was very interesting, and I think one of the articles I read was written by a Hyman Lippman,[MD] at the Wilder Clinic in St. Paul. I thought - gee, that would be a nice place to work; working with kids at the Wilder Clinic would Minnesotabe interesting. So that Minnesota I just put in the back of my mind and so throughout college and medical schoolTwentieth I was thinking of either a general practice situation or psychiatry, but I was wavering between the two.

DC: Where was high school?

PE: High school was Minneapolis Central. I grew up a few blocks west of Powderhorn Park, very close to Central.

DC: And then college?

2 PE: College, I went to St. Olaf, [Northfield, Minnesota] and really enjoyed that. That was a good time in my life. Studied hard, a lot of studying. I had 18 credits a semester my freshman year. They required air force ROTC at that time, which no longer is the case. But I did take some music lessons there, too. In fact, I helped pay some of my college expenses by playing church organ. I had studied a little organ when I was a high school student, pipe organ, and I studied a little at St. Olaf, along with a little piano. I spent a lot of my spare time accompanying music majors at their recitals at St. Olaf, and I thoroughly enjoyed that. I've continued over the years to accompany vocalists and other soloists, and I've enjoyed it.

DC: St. Olaf has this great reputation for its choral work.

PE: Excellent choral music. I didn't sing in the choirs. I played in the band for two years, and then gave up on the ... I didn't have time after that. Junior year I was too busy with my studies and with playing church organ. I dropped out of the band. Can't playa note now -- you lose your lip after [awhile]. But then I went to at the . It was affordable and it's a good school. Mid-to-LateProject DC: When was that? What years were you [there]?

PE: '59 to '63 I was at the University of Minnesota. Tookthe a rotating internship in Tacoma, Washington. In the middle of that my draft boardin asked meHistory to report for a physical, and so I had to go to Seattle for that. I saw this young doctor - he was the one thatSociety gave us our physicals, because he was examining several . We had individual physicals, but he told us about how usually people would line up and he would go down the row examining these healthy young men, and I thought that would be a waste of two years.Oral I imagined I might be drafted and have to do induction physicals for two years, so I enlisted in the Service, Division of Indian Health, where I figured I would have much better general practice experience, which I did, general practice and public health. But enoughHistorical that I decided even if I were to practice in general practice, I would needPsychiatry to know more about psychiatry. There were a lot of psychological aspects to the illnesses in the populationCentury I served, which was the Mississippi Choctaw Indians. DC: Which are located where?

PE: Several spots in Mississippi. Mostly close to Philadelphia, Mississippi. I arrived there two weeks after the three civil rights workers were murdered by the Klan there, so that was a culture shock. MinnesotaThe biggest shock came Minnesota that first week I was in town. I went down to the courthouse on business, andTwentieth there was a bulletin board in the central hall in the post office, and on the bulletin board was a recruitment poster for the Ku Klux Klan - in the county court house! And I thought - This is a different society from Minnesota! It was very flagrant, and the first year I was in Mississippi, the Klan burned down about a hundred churches where voter registration drives were being conducted. At any rate, I decided, during the time in Mississippi, to take a psychiatry residency. One of my medical school classmates, Hans Anderson, had told me that the University of Rochester, , was one of several good programs, and that's where he went. So I applied to three places, and Rochester was the first to accept me, so I accepted and spent four years in Rochester, two years in general psychiatry and two years in child psychiatry.

3 DC: Who were your teachers there and who impressed you most - and that goes for other periods of your life, too, like earlier and later, your mentors that you found?

PE: Probably the mentors at the University of Rochester were the ones that had the biggest impact. The head of the department at that time was John Romano, and he was a very distinguished man, but he was a very empathetic clinician, too, and each week he would come on each inpatient unit. It was a large program. There were three inpatient units in psychiatry, and he would conduct an interview of a patient in front of the residents.

DC: I remember he came to Minnesota as a visiting professor, and I remember him coming and, in your words, very distinguished. The patient he interviewed had tears come, and he reached in his pocket and brought out a clean white linen handkerchief and gave it to the patient to use [chuckles].

PE: Yes, he respected people and that was the thing that impressed me. He respected all people. Project DC: Other teachers? Mid-to-Late

PE: Well, there was a child analyst, Angelo Madonia, that I really liked a lot. He and I would go out to various schools - at the time there was a programthe that he and a psychologist on the faculty, he had started in the grade schools, called the Primaryin PreventionHistory Project, whereby children that might be at risk for psychological problems were picked up really earlySociety and given some one-to­ one time with a trained volunteer aide. That program has grown over the years. It's finally making it to Minnesota next year. Oral DC: Oh, really? PE: Yes, the Wilder Foundation has finally pickedHistorical up on that. I had really given up any hope that it would make it to Minnesota,Psychiatry but it's been growing over the years. So you will hear more about that. Century DC: Very good! And I should add that tonight at the annual meeting of the Minnesota Academy of Adolescent Psychiatry, where you will be an honored guest, George Realmuto, from the university, is going to talk about his primary prevention program, for which he won the Phillips award for primary prevention from the Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. So, we have twoMinnesota things then coming Minnesota along here. Twentieth So they were impressive teachers of you. Others that come to mind, during that time?

PE: Well, there were a lot. Some had a remarkable way of doing family . I don't think my skills were ever as good in family therapy as one-to-one -- too many people to keep track of. I do better one-to-one. Obviously, in child psychiatry I dealt with parents, too.

As far as my choice of child psychiatry, probably during my training program I got more encouragement from the child psychiatry faculty. They liked the way I talked to parents, as well as dealt with kids. So I decided to go into child psychiatry. Looking back, though, it might be -

4 well, it's interesting to look back at my national board exams that I took at the end of medical school. My highest scores were in psychiatry, , and public health. So, what do I do? I end up as a child psychiatrist in a setting that could be considered a public health setting.

DC: It was a perfect match, then.

PE: Yes, and the Wilder Clinic where I went and have been director for many years.

DC: I want to hear about that experience, too, but I'm remembering a very famous family therapist at Rochester who was a very eminent psychiatrist.

PE: Are you talking about Si Warby?

DC: No.

PE: Or maybe you're talking about somebody who came right after I left, Lyman Wynne? Mid-to-LateProject DC: Yes.

PE: I have to tell you this because it tells you somethingthe about Romano, who was the head of the department, and he retired the month that I left. Hein had a GrandHistory Rounds with me, and he would usually sum it up in a very good manner. He was astute at giving theSociety summary statement at the end of what the whole Grand Rounds was about. One of the Grand Rounds in the spring, that last spring, he announced that he was going to be retiring at the end of June and that a search committee had been appointed, and they would beOral conducting a worldwide search for his successor, which shows the confidence of this man. [chuckles] He was aware that he was a very good educator, and that they would have to conduct an extensive search to replace him. Historical DC: [chuckles] Oh, that's interesting,Psychiatry that he perceived that, that way. Century PE: Lyman Wynne's paths and mine did cross, but that last year or so I was there, Romano brought in Norman Garmezy [PhD] from the University of Minnesota, probably in part because as he was winding down his career as department head - he had been department head for 25 years! - he was starting to think of research. He had never really been a researcher. He was a wonderful educator and he valued educating residents and medical students. So I think bringing NormanMinnesota Garmezy in - and heMinnesota also set up a course in statistics that last year, too, I think. When he stepped downTwentieth as head of the department he started to do a little research. I don't know what came of that, but it followed.

DC: Norman Garmezy's work was in a longitudinal study of children of the poor that I think was getting underway around about that time - this would have been '60s.

PE: And the invulnerable child, the resilient child, who succeeds in spite of [low] expectations.

DC: That's interesting too. I remember a psychosomaticist.

5 PE: Oh yes - George Engel is well known - he was a friend of Romano's. Romano had been at the University of Cincinnati when the University of Rochester Medical School decided to open a psychiatry department. They brought Romano up to Rochester to start this department, and Engel went with him. I believe that's ... this is before my time, but I think that's the sequence. Engel­ I had some contact with him. The biopsychosocial model is certainly his contribution. It was significant to think of the whole person.

DC: I'm thinking how it linked to your very early interest in asthma and the psychosomatic aspect and here you end up at the feet of George Engel, who is known for just that.

PE: It may have been a coincidence. I certainly didn't selectively study conditions that were considered psychosomatic. Of course, my sister outgrew her asthma when she became an adult.

DC: What year did you complete your ... ? PE: 1970. Then I had to decide where to go to practice. My wife liked MinnesotaProject and the East Coast and I liked Minnesota and the West Coast. It looked likeMid-to-Late Minnesota would make the most sense, besides we both had family back in Minnesota. That's where myoid memory of the Wilder Clinic came out, so I applied at the Wilder Clinic and they needed somebody, and so that was it. The only other place I considered was in San Jose,the but since my wife and I had agreed Minnesota would be most compatible, that was outin - I didn'tHistory even goSociety out to San Jose to look. DC: Who was at the Wilder when you came in 1970?

PE: The only child psychiatrist there was Roy Knowles,Oral who had had training at Menningers [Clinic, Topeka, Kansas] back in the early 40s or so, and then had been in practice. But he hadn't quite finished his child fellowship at Menningers so he came to Wilder for the last six months of his child, then he stayed on to be director, becauseHistorical Hy Lippman had retired and Dave Thorson had died. So when I came it Psychiatrywas just Roy Knowles and me for awhile till the third psychiatrist was hired. And then, of course, the staff was psychologists and social workers who were quite experienced in family therapy by Centurythat time, having brought Virginia Satir over for in-service training.

DC: Did you meet Hyman?

PE: I didMinnesota meet him, yes. Minnesota Twentieth DC: What are your memories about?

PE: Not much. It was just sort of in passing. I never had any tutoring - it was just a meeting.

DC: He was already emeritus at that point.

PE: Yeah, and he was very well known.

[seems to be a break in recording at this point]

6 DC: So that started in 1970, your work with the Wilder.

PE: Yeah, I worked under Roy Knowles for about nine-and-a-half years. And then he retired and I was appointed medical director.

DC: In 1979?

PE: The end of 1979. He stayed on a little bit, probably to finish up the paperwork and stuff. It was around the end of '79 and the beginning of 1980.

DC: What are some of your memories of your work there that particularly strike you as important to you and your accomplishments that you think of?

PE: My accomplishments were doing clinical work, interviewing kids, diagnosing children and helping formulate a treatment plan. Perhaps, being a role model for youngerProject child psychiatrists coming in. I guess what I enjoyed the most was interviewing Mid-to-Latechildren. What was most frustrating was recruiting other child psychiatrists. That was always difficult, what with the shortage of child psychiatrists. I shouldn't say it was always difficult. In the early '80s it wasn't as difficult as it was later on. It seemed like it was easier to recruitthe then, but as the years went on it became more and more difficult. in HistorySociety DC: You said you liked interviewing children.

PE: Yes, I do like it. Oral

DC: What is there that you liked about that? Historical PE: They're so frank and entertaining.Psychiatry They're not beaten down by life yet. They're still hopeful, even if they're struggling with theirCentury families. They energize me. DC: Oh, do they?

PE: They energize me and I help them calm down, because I'm a low-key person, and the anxious child, in particular, can settle down and relax in my office. I think I do pretty well with anxiousMinnesota kids. Not so well with Minnesota sociopaths or the very paranoid. Twentieth DC: And manic kids or the hyperactive?

PE: Over the 31 years I was at Wilder, I became more and more proficient at diagnosing a child. Initially I had no idea how to diagnose mania in childhood. Only one person, E. James Anthony, had written about it in 1970, and people just didn't have any experience with it. But I got to the point where it became easier to pick up mania, even in very young. The youngest child that I treated for a bipolar spectrum diagnosis was three-and-a-half.. He didn't have full-blown mania, but he had a rapid cycling cyclothymia, and the fact that his father had bipolar disorder made it easier for me to go ahead and treat him with a mood stabilizer. He did very well on Tegretol. The

7 family-they were afraid oflithium, but they had an older son who had taken Tegretol for a seizure disorder and they felt comfortable with that, and it was a good choice. Later, I saw him again when he was seven. He had been off the Tegretol for a year or two, and he came in with a major depression and responded excellently to Tegretol alone.

DC: That's surprising.

PE: Well, Tegretol can be an anti-depressant. It's related to the tricyclics and if you were going to treat a bipolar depression with only one medication, I guess I would lean towards Tegretol, although maybe that newer derivative is equally effective.

DC: Lamictal, or the ... ?

PE: I don't know about that in children. I was thinking of ... I can't think of the name of it.

DC: Topamax? Mid-to-LateProject PE: No, no - there's one that's very closely related to Tegretol, but you don't need to get all the blood tests. the DC: Oh, Neurontin - Gabapentin? in HistorySociety PE: No, no, that's not it either [laughter]. Anyway, there's another one. [Trileptal] I haven't had so much success with Neurontin for bipolar disorder, and Lamictal, I'd worry about the Stevens­ Johnson syndrome. Even before that I had diagnosedOral mania in a six-year-old, and I tried him on lithium first, but his skin broke down because of all the bed-wetting, so I switched him to Tegretol, and he had an excellent response to Tegretol.

So, I think I'm a little betterPsychiatry at diagnosing mania. HistoricalPost-traumatic stress disorder and other things I didn't really diagnose in the earlyCentury '70s. DC: Other things in terms of your work at the Wilder per se, in guiding it?

PE: I liked my colleagues there. They have good psychologists and social workers and other psychiatrists, so it's been a good place to work. There's not the intrigue you have at a university setting.Minnesota [chuckles] There's notMinnesota the research, but I wasn't that interested in research or intrigue. I just wanted toTwentieth do good clinical work. DC: Wilder has a long, venerable reputation of doing good things in the community and it's looked to as a kind of pillar of good things and quality. I wondered if you felt that was an important part of your own identity as a , to be associated with that name.

PE: Well, I've always striven to improve the quality of my work, and Wilder has a reputation for quality and for looking out for unmet needs and finding a way to meet them. That's really predominant in the whole Wilder philosophy, to see what needs are out there that aren't being met. In fact, the research wing has done some very careful needs assessment work.

8 DC: That again rings back to your ninth grade experience, when you first thought of seriously becoming a physician, insofar as could you do something good for some people, be helpful. It very much matches the Wilder mission.

PE: I think it does.

DC: So you ended up in the right place [chuckles] for your particular skills and interests. You've been members of various societies related to psychiatry, and I think you were one of the founding members of the adolescent society, and also of the child society.

PE: That started soon after I moved back to Minnesota.

DC: The child first?

PE: The child. Mid-to-LateProject DC: Done by Carl Malmquist, who took the leadership there, and then the adolescent society developed a few years after that, in 1974, and you were members of that. What are your recollections of those two societies and also the Academythe of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry? in History PE: It's been a place for me to keep in touch with colleagues, which Societyhas been important. DC: You've taken some leadership roles, too. I thinkOral you were president ... PE: I've taken my turn as president and secretary and other positions and being on the bylaws committee, rewriting bylaws. Historical DC: And program planning Psychiatry- I remember you were often part of the program committee for the adolescent society's programs forCentury the community presentations on topics related to adolescence. PE: To some extent, but I think others really have done a better job of digging up ideas for the programs.

DC: TellMinnesota me about your family Minnesota and your wife? PE: My wife Twentiethwas a nursing student at St. Olaf when I was in medical school, so we didn't go to St. Olaf at the same time. She had a one-day rotation to the obstetric clinic at the University of Minnesota Medical School when I was doing my and was doing prenatal exams there. So essentially we met over a pelvic exam, [laughter] where she was the chaperone and I was doing the exam and the patient - I remember clearly who the patient was, which is ironic, but I suppose because it was an important event in my life I would remember the patient. She was a Native American, an Ojibwe woman with her fifth pregnancy, somewhat obese. It was hard to palpate her uterus. [A] Premonition of my going into the Division of Indian Health in the Public Health Service perhaps. So anyway, we courted and married, and when I was an intern she studied for her master's in nursing at the University of Washington in Seattle, so that she could

9 teach. So, when I enlisted in the Public Health Service, I asked to be assigned to an Indian hospital in Phoenix or Winnebago, Nebraska, the two spots that were close to nursing schools so she could teach. Well, I didn't have any pull in Washington, so they assigned me to Philadelphia, Mississippi, which my wife did not like. She felt out of place there. Although, I would say that there was a little Episcopal mission congregation that took us in. There weren't any Lutheran churches in the county, so we went to this little mission congregation, and they were very friendly. Some of the people there were working behind the scenes to try to bring some sanity into the ... to get rid of some of the segregation and fear, against what the Klan was doing.

While we were in Mississippi our first son was born, and when we were in Rochester, New York, our second son was born, so one is a Mississippian, although he doesn't speak like it [chuckles], and the other is a New Yorker, and he doesn't speak like they do there.

DC: I know you have grandchildren and you're been very proud of those. PE: The older one is married, and he met his wife on a railway platform onProject a commuter route. He was working in Manhattan at the time and so was she. They wereMid-to-Late both living in adjacent apartment buildings in Pelham, New York. And she's Irish-American. Both her parents grew up in Ireland and came to this country as adults, so they have delightful Irish accents. But she has a slight Bronx-Yonkers accent. Not as severe as her siblings.the So, she's been a wonderful addition. We never had any daughters, now we have a daughter-in-lawin and two grand-daughters. Charming grand-daughters - lots of fun. HistorySociety

DC: I have a memory of you so proudly showing pictures of your first grandchild. Telling us every time we'd meet about them. Oral

PE: It's so much fun to watch this normal childhood develop. I'm convinced now that boys and girls do develop differently. These two girls startedHistorical speaking at a much younger age than our two boys, and they're more social,Psychiatry too. The boys wanted to play with toys, but girls, they want to interact socially. So they'll pretendCentury they're talking on the phone to you or things like that. DC: You retired a few months now? How is that?

PE: Three months, I've been retired exactly three months. It's fine. The last few weeks at work were difficult because I had so many cases to close and transfer that I had to work overtime just gettingMinnesota dictations done. Minnesota Twentieth So now I can finally catch up on all the things I've been putting off at home. And also get back into music interests.

DC: Tell us about that.

PE: Over the years, as I say, I've done a lot of accompanying over the years. I've been accompanying a men's choir at church, filling in when the organist had carpal tunnel syndrome and could play the organ but couldn't play the piano anymore, so when there was a piano accompaniment I would play. But now I can take pipe organ lessons again - I'm taking lessons

10 from an excellent organist in town, David Scherba [?] - and revive those skills that have been dormant for many years.

DC: How's that coming?

PE: It's coming along. I'm practicing. I practice a good five hours a week in between lessons, and then do a little work at home on the fingering and articulation and stuff that my teacher asks me to.

DC: And meanwhile your wife is?

PE: She's still Dean of the School of Nursing, [University of Minnesota], so she's busy as ever. She's starting to tire, though. She's four years younger and has been thinking she'd work four years more before she retired, but I don't know ... if her health holds out. DC: Before we started this you told me of an amusing patient story that youProject thought you might tell me today about the person who ... Mid-to-Late PE: My first manic patient? the DC: Your first manic patient. in HistorySociety PE: Oh yes. That was during the first six months of my psychiatry residency in the state of New York. I had an admission to work up and she was about 60. Her first manic episode, but classically manic, had all the symptoms so even aOral first year resident had no doubt that this was mania - not or some other condition, with the flight of ideas. It had been set off, apparently, by the death of her close friend who was quite well off financially, and this was a shock to her. So there was the economic insecurity, too. Her family doctor had been giving her some Librium to help her relaxPsychiatry and calm down, untilHistorical he realized this was a major mental disorder and sent her over to the university hospital. This was before lithium, so we had her on Thorazine. She took a time-release capsule atCentury bedtime. But one night she refused to take her Thorazine. She didn't like the side-effects or something and was giving the nurse a very hard time. Well, there were eleven first-year psychiatry residents, so we took turns sleeping at the hospital at night, to be on call, and my colleague, Ed Linn, who had considered being a comedian before he decided to go to medical school, was on call that night, so they called him. He came up to the ward and he saidMinnesota - Mrs. so-and-so, I knowMinnesota you don't like this Thorazine, but either you take this capsule or we are goingTwentieth to have to give it to you by shot. She became very indignant at that point and said - "I will not take that Thorazine - Give me Librium or give me death!"

DC: [laughter]

PE: ... and the nurse almost dropped the medicine tray, and Dr. Linn could hardly keep from laughing; he had to work hard to keep a straight face. And it is probably the best manic pun that I've ever - Give me Librium or give me death. [laughter]

DC: Pleasant memories.

11 PE: It's a terrible disease, but it does make you laugh sometimes.

DC: Are there other points that you want to make note of here about your career and your life in psychiatry?

PE: Over the years it's changed. I did a lot of play therapy in the early years and not as much medication, except for the ADHD. Nowadays it's a lot of medication and you don't have time to do play therapy very much.

DC: What do you see for the field now, or what recommendations would you have on directions we should go?

PE: I'm not very good at seeing in the future, but I think that a young child psychiatrist still needs to learn about psychodynamics, they have to realize even if they're doing drug treatment that what they say and how they act toward the patient has an effect too, notProject just medication, so they need to have some basic, sound psychodynamic understanding,Mid-to-Late too. DC: And perfect the art of relating to people. the PE: Yes, and respecting people. They have to respectin parentsHistory and they have to respect children. They are all people. They may be mixed up, messed up, and the mostSociety messed up parents probably had bad childhoods of their own, but they need to be respected as adults.

DC: The point you learned from Dr. Romano. Is thisOral it?

PE: It's been a good time. Historical DC: It's been a very good timePsychiatry for me, too. Century [End of interview]

TranscribedMinnesota by Carol C. Bender Minnesota Wordcrafter Twentieth [email protected] 651-644-0474

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