·LOK SABHA DEBATES (English Version)

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First Session (NIDtb Lok Sabb.)

( Yol. 1 COlJtalu No~. J 10 9)

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[Ninth Series, Vol. I First Session, 198911911 (Salea)}

No. 4, Friday, 22, 19891Pausa 1, 1911 (Saka)

CoLUMNS

Oral, Answers to Questions: 1-35

·Starred Questions Nos. 1,3,4.5 vtritten Answers to Questions: 35-86

Starred Questions Nos. 7t020 35-50

Unstarred Questions Nos. 1 to 8, 10, 11, 13 to 30, 32 to 35 51-79

Pape~ Laid on the Table 87r-100

Business of the House

Matters Under Rule 377 101-108

(i) Need to ensure suitable rehabilitation· 101-102 by Railways of persons living on either side of railway lines in Sriperambudur in Tamil Nadu

Shrimati Meragatham Chandrasekhar

(ii) Need for measures for overall development 102 of hilly regions of Uttar Pradesh

Shri Harish Rawat

(iii) Need for speedy implementation of 103 the National Capital Region Plan

Shri J .. P. Agarwal

-The sign + marked above the name of a Member indicates that the question was actually asked ~n the floor of the House by that Mernar. (ii) CoLUMNS

(iv) Need to take over the Katihar Jute Mill 103-104 In Bihar

Shri Yuvraj

(v) Need for early completion of the pending 104 railway projects in North Bihar

Shri Hukumdeo Nerain Yadav

(vi) Need for resolving the drinking water 104-105 problem in Ujjain, Madhya Pradesh

Shri Satya Narain Jatiya

(vii) Need to provide Central Assistance for 105-106 early completion of the T eesta Barrage Project

Shri Amar Roypradhan

(viii) Need to re-vamp the Sindri Fertiliser 106 Plant in Bihar

Shri A.K. Roy

'ostitution (Sixty-Second Amendment) Bill, 1989 108-151 202-228

Motion to consider

Shri Ram Vilas Paswan 108-114

Shri Vasant Sathe 114-130

Shri Khemchandbhai Somabhai Chavda 129-135

Shri Shanta Kumar 135-143

Shrimati Subhashini Ali 143-149

Shri A. Ashokaraj 203-206 (iii) CoLUMNS

Shri Peter G. Marbaniang 206-208

Shri Kailash Meghwal 208-218

Shri Piyus Tiraky 219-222

Shri Ratilal Kalidas Varma 222-22&

Resolution re: Conversion of Narrow Gauge Railway 151-201 Lines into Broad Gauge in Vidarbha Region of Maharashtra

Shri Sudam Dattatrya Deshm ukh 151-154

Shri Gopinath Gajapathi 155-156

Shri Hukumdeo Narayan Yadav 156-161

Prof. Mahadeo Rao Shiwankar 161-162

Shri Shivraj V. Patil 162-163

Shri Indrajit Gupta 163-164

Shri R.L.P. Verma 165-166

Shri Basudev Acharia 167-169

Shri Kalpnath Rai 169-172

Shri Samarendra Kundu 172-175

Shr; Harish Rawat 175-178

Shri Mandhata Singh 178-180

Shri Piyare Lal Handoo 180-181

Shri Piyus Tiraky 181-182 '

Shri Jagpal Singh (iv)

CoLUMNS

Shri Chitta Basu 184--186

Shri 8abubhai Ueghji Shah 186

Shri Somnath Chatterjee 186-187

Shri Uttam Rathod 187-188

Dr. Shailendranath Shrivastava 188-190

Shri Ramashray Prasad Singh 190-191

Shri Oifeep Singh Bhuria 193-194

Shri Chhotey Singh Yadav 194-195

Shri Pram Pradeep 195

Shri M.S. Pal 195-196

Shri Shopat Singh Makkasar 196-198

Shri K.D. Sultanpuri 198

Shri Ganga Charan Lodhi 199

Shri Ram Sharan Yadav 199-200

Shri Chhedi Paswan 200

Shri Harbhau Shankar Mahala 200-201

Shri Heera Bhai 201 LOK SABHA DEBATES

LOKSABHA [ Translation)

SHRI HARISH RAWAT: Mr. Speaker. Sir, I thank you very much for giving me the Friday, December 22, 1989IPausa 7, 1911 opportunity to ask the first question of the (Saka) Ninth lok Sabha Sir, I listened attentively to the reply given by the hone Minister. It is regretful that the seriousness shown by the The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the Clock National Front. of wh~ he is a partner, in its manifesto about the electoral reforms or in [MR. SPEAKER in the Chai/1 the statements made by the Hon. Prime Minister regarding the State funding of elec- ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS tions is not refleded in his reply. All that he has said is that it is under consideration. But [ Translation] State Assembly eleGtions are likely to be held after three months. Therefore, I would State Funding of Election Expenses like to know whether he would be able to say something about the position in that case? *1. SHRI HARISH RAWAT: Will the Mr. Speaker. Sir. keeping this point in view, Minister of LAW AND JUSTICE be pleased I would like to know from the hon. Minister, to state: who represents Assam Gana Parishad, , whether a time-limit win be fixed in this re- (a) whether Government propose to gard by the Government, the existence of amend the election laws to provide for State which is at the mercy of a number of parties. funding of elections; and I am eager to know it because we doubt th, stability of this Government. So. I would like (b) if so, whether this proposal is likely to know whether any time-limit wiD be fixed to be implemented before the next Assembly regarding the final decision and what would elections? be its modus operandi and whether other parties of this House will also be consulted in [Eng/ish] the matter?

AN HON. MEMBER: Maiden answer' [Eng/ish]

THE MINISTER OF STEEL AND MINES SHAI OINESH GOSWAMI: We have AND MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE made a commitment in our manifesto that we (SHRI DINESH ~OSWAMI): t hope there will implement the long pending proposafs will be no supplementaries to the question. for public financing of elections to reduce money power. But at the same time the hone . (a) Government is examining seriousty member should realise that what they AaY8 the questign of State fuQding of elections to not been able to do in 42 years cannot be reduce infltt.nee of RlOney power. Details, done in four days. Theretore, .. must be however/have not ·yel been worked out; given 90me time.

(b) No, Sir. This is unlikely. SHRI MADHAVRAO" SCtNOlA: You 3 Oral Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 Oral Answers 4

were part of us for 36 years out of those 42 muscle power is also related with the elec- years. toral reforms. We have seen all that happened in the recent elections, in some parts SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: Therefore, ofthe country particularly in Rohtak, Bagpat. .. t know the difficulty and I can assure him that if I could have carried it, I would have been [English] very happy because my election is coming (/nte"uptions) Therefore, if I were to see this MR. SPEAKER: I think, the Minister is through, I would be the first person to be competent to reply. helped. But the point is that this is a question to which we have very seriously addressed [ Translation] ourselves. This question has been on the agenda from 1972. In fact, in the Joint SHRIHARISHRAWAT: The way some Committee of Parliament for amendment of people resorted to booth capturing and got the Election Law in 197~, the report was that elected and occupied important places in the it should be accepted as a general principle Government, we are afraid whether use of that all election expenses should be a legiti- money power and muscle power would be mate charge on public funds. Then in 1988 checked because most of the han. MembeflS when we discussed the amendment to the sitting onthatside have been electedthrough Representation of the People Act many money power and muscle power. A number Members also suggested that there should of suggestions have been received from be State funding. After all, in a country like time to time on the electoral reforms and ours, in a complex situation where so many several committees were appointed in the candidates are there, it is not possible to go past, such as the L.P. Singh Committee and for whole State funding. Some limited State the committee appointed in 1977 on the funding should be there. Now, I have stressed behest of Shri Jaiprak.ash Narain to go into that the Election Commission has to make the matter. I would like to know from the han. some study on it. I am now interacting with Minister, through you, whether another the Election Commission. I am also writing to committee is proposed to be appointed for the former Chief Election Commissioners, the electoral reforms or some other method Mr. S.L. Shakdher, Mr. K. V.J. Sundaram, is going to be adopted? Mr. R.K. Trivedi, about their comments. I will . also be interacting with the leaders of the [English] opposition and the members of the opposition on this matter. After this interaction we SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: This ques- wiU definitely try to come forth with a pro- tion relates to the State funding of elections. posal. But you will appreciate that the As- I am prepared to answer because there is a sembty elections will be taking place in specific question as Question No. 3 which February. Even if we try to do it as expedi- deals with the question of booth capturing tiously as possible, obviously, it ;s not pos- and muscle power. If you want me to answer sible to do it before February. Therefore, my this, I am prepared to answer. But I think, it answer is not that we are not serious. We are would be fair if I answer it when that questiOJl definitely extremely serious for this proposal comes up. and as expeditiously as possible we will come before the House, after this interac- [ Trans/ation] tion, with some positive proposals. SHRI L.K. ADVANI:' Mr. Speaker, Sir, I [ Translation] am very happy that the first question in the question hour of the first session of the new SHRI HARISH RAWAT: Not only the Lok Sabha is related to the electoral reforms. . qt,JQ.stion of checking the misuse of money I am particularly happy because this ques- pOvY. is there, but stopping the misuse of tion has been raised by a friend from the 5 Oral Answers PAUSA 1,1911 (SAKA) Oral Answers 6

Congress. It is only when one sits in the this august House-the Ninth lok Sabha- opposition that one can feel how painful it is except my good friend Dinesh Goswami, to see malpractices in the elections. This is none of us, including yourself, Sir, is honest one question, but there are two aspects of it. because everybody has spent more than the One is related to money power and funding. expenses allowed by the Election The other dimension is that the electoral Commission ... (lnterruptions) reforms should be introduced before the Assembly Elections. I fully agree with the You may deny that but this is a reply of the hone Minister that such an impor- reality ... ( Interruptions)" tant proposal and important decision like State funding cannot be finalised in such a MR. SPEAKER: Sontosh Ji, this is the short time and that a comprehensive law is Question Hour. You put the question. needed for it. But keeping in view the importance of the Assembly elections, there are SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV: So, ~ome small matters which can be decided Sir, I would like to know whether, when he ;s through an executive order. I would like to considering about State funding, he will know whether the Government will consider consider to increase the limit of expenditure them? by the candidates also because this is a very vital problem considering the number of From time to time, the Election Com- voters and the number of booths that have mission has put forward a number of propos- increased? I agree with Advani Ji that this als, which were never· accepted by the pre- sort of things should be done before the next vious Government. There are suggestions Assembly elections. which can be implemented through an executive order. I would like to ask whether SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: Sir, I am in Government will consider implementing agreement with my hone friend that the ceil- those proposats which can be implemented ing on election expense today, to some before the Assembly elections through an extent is unrealistic and needs a review. But, executive order? The Assembly elections at the same time, there ar~ other dimensions should be fair and priority of holding elec- to it as to whether this ceiling on expense tions should not be diluted. This aspect is should be limited only to the expenditure also related to it. incu~red by a candidate or should also include expenses incurred by political [English] parties ... (Interruptions)

SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: Sir, my own SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: Sir, is it feeling is that in the matter of electoral re- correct that he has spent more than that? forms, we should not approach piecemeal because that does not help. Therefore, we SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: I have not will like to have a comprehensive review of spent. But definitely we are having a look into the whole situation and come forward with a the whole matter and we would like that the package of deals because even on these ceiling expense should not be so unrealistic decisions which we can take by way of that the Members, while entering the House, executive order, there will be differences of should commit a fraud on the Constitution. opinion and, therefore, I feel that" it will be diffi~,Jft for us to carry out any reforms before [ Trans/ation] the Assembly elections. But (f the hone Member has any specific suggestion in mind, SHRI VIJA Y KUMAR MALHOTRA: Mr. he can put it across to us and we will consider Speaker, Sir, the hone Minister said in his that. reply that there would not be piecemeal approach to the work of electoral reforms, SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV: Sir, in but they would come forward with a pack· 7 Oral Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 Ora/Ans... ,. 8 age-deal and he spelt out a detailed pro- photographs to the voters. Will the Govem- gramme in this regard. The package-deal ment make an arrangement to issue identity will take long time. In my opinion it will not be cards carrying photographs to the voters practicable to implement the reforms, if the before the Assembly elections? Government keeps on considering all. the aspects. Since the elections to the Legisla- [English] tive Assemblies are at hand, I would like to know whether the hone Minister can set SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: This is some time-limit? I think if the Assembly elec-- another suggestion which has been mooted tions are held under the existing election by the Election Commission. But you will laws, it will not be proper because it will appreciate that if we are to translate it into amount to going back from commitment made reality, the cost involved is not small. After to the ~ople. So the proposals, which can all, we are dealing with millions of voters and be implemented before the ensuing Assem- the cost and the time-factor are there. There- bly elections, should be accepted and there fore, while we discuss with my friends on the should not be any problem in their imple- Opposition and also amongst ourselves the mentation. The things, which can be done by question of electoral reforms this would be many of package deal, should also not be one subject which will be considered. delayed and a time-limit should be set forthe purpose. [Trans/ation]

(English] SHRI BANWARt LAL PUROHIT: Mr. Speaker, Sir, electoral law clearly prohibits SHRI DINESH GOSW~I: Sir, I have appeals to the voters in the name of caste never said that we will take a tong time. I and religion during the elections. But this have only said that bringing a comprehen- time in the whole country and particutarly in sive Bill regarding electoral reforms will my constituency, photographs of Lord Rama-- require some time because the consulta- were pUtlJp in all the booths. 'Tilak' was put tions have to be there and it is not possible to on the forehead of the voters who went to bring such amendments before the next cast their votes. Such things fislate the pnc Assembly elections. Uptil now the two hone visions of Constitution and are dengerous Members, Shr; L.K. Advani and Shr; Malhotra, for our country. In the name of Ram Shila have not also spelt out about the amend- Pujan and Ganga Jat·.. (Interruptions). I am ments that we can carry out through execu- asking a question about the malpractices tive orders. Therefore, if myfriends have any that are there. What steps the Government is suggestion, they can put ~ across to me and taking to stop things like collection of funds in I can consider it. But I can't give an assur- • the name of Ram Shila Pujan, GangaJal and ance today that I will carry it out unless , appealing for votes by putting up the photo- examine it thoroughly because this is a very graphs of Lord Rama? serious matter. [Eng/ish • ( Translation] SHRIDINESHGOSWAMI: Sirwhatthe SHAI YAMUNA PRASAD SHASTRI: hon. Member has said is definitely of great Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would submit to the han. importance and I think we who are in political Minister that one of the. important reforms in parties must address oursetves and nobody this regard should be to provide identity is above it because we can't forget that Ram card~ to the voters. Bogus voting has be- appeared even in Allahabad -elections. The come a -malaise due to which the entire person who was very popular in the Ramay- electoral exercise has been reduced to a ana appeared in the Allahabad elections. mockery. To check this malPractice, it is (Interruptions) I am not trying to score a necessary to provide identity cards bearing debating point. I ~ow the objective of the 9 Oral AnSW8ts PAUSA 1, 1911 (SAKA) Ora{ Answets 10

Member which he is trying to impress upon. allow me ... These are the aberrations and we must have interaction and these malpractices cannot MA. SPEAKER: How can I allow? be removed only by law. Unless there is a determined effort by the political parties to do (Inteffuptions) away these malpractices, they cannot be removed by law alone. This-is the reason MA. SPEAKER: Mr. Kundu, you are a why we will inter-act amongst ourselves very experienced Member of the House. because these malpractices may affect That question, you know, is deleted. You somebody on that side and somebody on know why. this side and ultimately it will affect the whole system. SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHURV: Please allow a Calling Attention on that SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHURV: Mr. (Inteffuptions) Speaker, Sir, though this question is related to State funding of election expenses, the MA. SPEAKER: Shri Surya Narayan question of muscle power has come and Singh. money also makes muscles. In this context, I want to knowaboutwhat I heard some days Booth Capturing and Rigging Incidents ago that the 'Chief Election Commissioner during Ninth Lok Sabha Elections has suggested that of those who will be proved to be involved in booth capturing and -3. SHRI SURvA NARAYAN SINGH: rigging the Ministers and the responsible Will the Minister of LAW AND JUSTICE be M.Ps. will be debarred from contesting elec- pleased to stale: tions for 10 years, I want to know from the Minister whether in the package of electoral (a) the nu~r of incidents of booth reforms this suggestion will be included or capturing and rigging during the recent Lok not. Sabha elections held in November, 1989 in Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and other States; SHRI OINESH GOSWAMI: Every suggestion that the Election Commission has (b) if so, the details thereof; made would ~ .very seriously considered -and on those suggestions I will interact with (c) whether there are any proposals my friellds oflhe Opposition and therefore,l under consideration of Government to pre- can assure you that the comprehensive Bill vent booth capturing and rigging; and that we intend to-bri'19 ~fore the House at the earliest will includeatnne~ points. (d) if so, the details thereof?

MA. SPEAKER: Next Question-O. THE MINISTER OF STEELANDMIN~ No. 3-Shri Surya Narayan Singh. AND f••fl;J'STER OF LAW:.ANO JUSTICE (SHRI DINLv ~. 'WAMI): (a) to (d), [ Translation] According to the Elect-on Commission, in the recent general elections to the House of SHRI SAMRENORA KUNDU: Mr. the People and Legislative Assemblies of Speaker, Sir, may I put The question in your certain States, repoll had to be ordered due name? to booth capturing and other irregularities in as many as 1599 polling stations spread MR. SPEAKER: The question was in my over different States. Though certain provisions exist in the Representation df the name, which stands deleted. People Act, 1951, a study is being made to see whether there are any more loopholes to [English] be plugged for preventing booth capturing and rigging. In fact the efficacy of any law lies SHRI SAMARENDRA KUNDU: If you 11 Oral Answ9rs DECEMBER 22, 1989 Oral Answers 12

in its proper enforcement. This matter would [English] be discussed shortly with various political parties and suggestions are being obtained SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: Sir, it is in this regard from other informed persons known to everyone; of course I did not have also. the opportunity of fighting the election and therefore I do not have any personal experi- [ Translation] ence. Luckily, this phenomenon of booth capturing is unknown in my State. But, it has SHRI SURVA NARAYAN SINGH: Mr. become.known that this election has seen Speaker, Sir, the hone Minister has not given violence and booth capturing and this phe- complete reply to my question. I do not know nomenon is growing. When this Parliament about the whole country but I know about agreed certain amendments in the Repre- Bihar where the Government had declared sentation of the People Act were made, 15,500 booths as sensitive and highly sensi- particularly for disqualification of persons tive. The Government had declared that it convicted for the offence of booth capturing was committed to check booth capturing, but for six years. Then provision was also made in practice it has been totally the other way that the Election Commission can postpone round. Not only 70 people were killed in the polling and in extreme cases counter- Bihar, but there was booth capturIng also on mand the polling if the candidates are in- a large scale. Two Government officials on volved in booth capturing and other malprac- duty and an independent candidate were tices. It has been realised by everyone that also killed. These incidents took place on a these laws are not adequate enough to deal large scale. It is a matter of concern that with the situation. In 1984, the Election especially the influential leaders of Commission made about six recommenda- Congre'ss(l) in the state patronised gang of tions and in the amendment to the Repre- goondas, pressurised the Government offi- sentation of the People Act which we carried cials, and indulged in booth capturing on a out in 1988, we accepted only some of these large scale. recommendations. Therefore, we are examining these recommendations. As I said MR. SPEAKER: Please put your ques- earlier, I will be interacting with my friends of tion. all the Parties,. the Chief Election Commis- sioner, the former Chief Election Commis- SHRI SURYA NARAYAN SINGH: In sioners and persons who are in the know of Vidhya Panchayat of Bhojpur district alonge, things to improve the situation. But my own 24 people were killed when they were return- feeling is that by law alone we cannot tackle ing after casting their votes. The dead in- this problem unless we all make a concerted cluded children of as small an age as 3 to 4 effort, irrespective of the political parties to . years. Even septuagenarians were also not which we may belong to deal with this situ- spared. You are aware of the incidents that ation and our exercise must also be in that took place in Amethi. If this type of incidents direction. take place in the constituencies of the former Prime Minister and the wife of the Chief [ Trans/ation) Minister of Bihar, and if the Goonda elements capture booths under the protection SHRI SURYA NARAYAN SINGH: Mr. of Government officials, how will it be pos- Speaker, Sir, , agree with what the hone sible to check booth capturing? Despite all Minister has said. But it is not the law that commitments of the Government, these matters, but as to how effective the law incidents took place on a large scale. The enforcing agency is. As regards the elec- - Assembly elections are at hand. I would like tions in Bihar, the Election Commission have to know as to what effective steps Govern- pointed out that the administrative machin- ment is going to take to check booth-captur- ery is not competent enough to conduct ing? peaceful poll in a democratic Vt!ay. The Elec- 13 Oral Answers PAUSA 1,1911 (SAKA) Oral Answers 14 tion Commission have also pointed out that a State like Bihar, people came forward to if the people at the helm of affairs in Bihar resist booth capturing in some places. I utilise the services of law enforcing agencies believe if the people decide to resist, these and the administrative machinery for captur- electoral malpractices.can be met to a sub- ing booths in violation of law, how is it pos- stantial extent by the people themselves. sible to check this malpractice? Will the hon. But we must given them the support through Minister please deal with these points? the law and through administrative machinery. As I said, what type of support we can [English] give through law and administrative machinery is a matter which is in our deep concern SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: Sir, we because unless we do it, the democratic made an amendment in the Representation process will be at strain. of the People Act to the effect that in the election process, those who are dealing with SHRIMATIVIDYACHENNUPATI: You it will be on deputation to the Election Com- must introduce photo system also. mission. In some cases, there are reports that the administration also was not fulJy SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: I have free. There are cases where action has been answered that question earlier. We are taken against some senior administrative examining that proposal also. officers. We will examine this aspect as to how we can deal with the situation. But, at [ Translation] the present moment, I have no concrete proposal. SHRI LAlOO PRASAD: Mr. Speaker, Sir, during the Congress rule, a circular was SHRIMATI VIDYA CHENNUPATI: Sir, issued in respect of Bihar that in case more I would like to know whether the Government than 80 per cent votes were polled at any is ready to introduce ,Identity Cards with booth, it will be construed as booth captur- photographs to stop the rigging. In the recent ing. No such provision or mention is there in election, many MLAs and MPs have cap- the Act. This circular was issued in 1984 by tured the booths and nobody was allowed to the then Government of Bihar to serve their vote in those booths and sometimes the own interests. I want to know whether it will signature of the Presiding Officer was not be taken as booth capturing if more than 80 there in the ballot papers, but we have not percent polling is reported anywhere? There taken any account of it atthattime. However, is no such provision in the Act in this regard. we have made a written complaint to the No circular can violate the provisions of the Presiding Officer. So, I would like to know Rules. Since this drcular is defective, will the what are the measures taken by the Govern- hon. Minister withdraw it? If not, it should be ment to stop the rigging. provided in the law that in case morethan 80 per cent polling is reported from a polling SHRI DINESH GOSWAMJ: I do not station, it would be construed as booth cap- agree with the han. Member that in the turing and this provision should be made recent elections. most of the MLAs or MPs applicable to the entire country. They had indulged in booth capturing. I must pay acquired this weapon just to suit their inter- compliments to the people of India that in ests. I would like to know as to what the spite of the fact that there have been cases Government intends to do in this regard? of electoral malpractices, the people of India have exercised their right of franchise with- [English] out fear or favour. That is why I change of Government has taken place not only at the SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: Sir, Centre but the States also. Gwalior is a city which is very rich in history and culture. It is also very welJ-known be- It is also heartening to note that even in cause of the personality of a gentleman by 15 Oral AnsMN'S DECEMBER 22, 1989 OraIAns... 18

the name of Madan laI Dharati Pakar. This to prevent electoral malpractices which .. gentleman specialises in lighting an elec- mnduded through numerious non-serious tions for the last 150r 20 years. If I remember electoral competitors bY the appointment of rightly, the has fought every Presidential their authorised polling agents in the poling election inctuding that against Mr. Giri, Mr. booths. Sanjiva Reddy, Mi. Giani Zail Singh and Mr. Venkataraman also. In the recent elections SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: This ques- also, he filed his nomination papers, I believe tion of non-serious candidates has bean against our leader, Mr. RajlV Gandhi in indeed a serious problem in the electoral Amethi, against Mr. V.P. Singh in Fatehpur process and in the 1988 Amendment, this and in Balia against Mr. Chandrasekhar and issue was also debated and various sugges- at various other placeS. tions also were made. But it is very diffiaJlt to tackle this situation and ultimately I have not SHRI KALKA DAS: He contested been able to come aaoss any proposal in against ma also. which thera is total agreement. For example, one of the suggestions was to increase the SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: He has security deposit But the counter-argument also filed many times nomination papers was given that in that ~se we wiD only put against me also. As a mattar of fact when- premium to people who can spend more ever I go on an election rally, he always money. I would definitely like to have sug..- welcomes me outside his house with a buge gestions from my hone friends because when Mukut on his head and big Ghanta in his there are ballot papers by 165 to 200 candi- hand. dates, it becomes extremely difficult for the Election Commission and, in some'cases, it My question to the hone Minister is, we beoomes a farce. Therefore. I would like to are at present talking about booth capturing have suggestions and definitefy this wi~I.~_. by the entry of unauthorised persons into the taken into account whether to ina-ease the poning stations. All candidates are author- number because in the Presidential and in ised to appoint their polling agents. The right the Vice-Presidential elections, a different of such non-serious candidates ara soma- kind of procedure has now been adopted. times misused. To ensure that authorised (Interruptions) people entering into polling booths are pre- vented from committing malpractices and [ Translation] corrupt practices inside thepo,ling-booths, I would like to knoW through you from_the hone MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. Minister whether he is oonsidering meas- I und~rstand that it is a very wide subied and ures that could be taken to prevent the entry you people are deeply interested in it. Now _ of non-serious candidates into the eledoral we have to end it here. You can express)'O'lr fray so th~ their 'misuse could be totally views while speaking on Presid.enfs Ad- eliminated. The hon.' Minister has been talk- dress. Now I am calling the next question, __jng about legal and administrative meas- Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee... ures. ',6;sfiggestion I could give. for instance, is that in respect of any person who would ( Intenuptions) ~-'Qntest the election. who does not _ - belong to~' political party. may {English} be some I1OrfR& could be changed by which the proposers and seconders names should MR. SPEAKER: I have caIed Shrimati be much larger in number so that at least it is Geeta Mukherjee-bJ)Uljhe ,.xt queetion. assured thatthore is some minimum support to .... per~ This sort of measure cou!J;iae ( /nttKl'l.J)tions) considereit1 would like to have the Minis- ters cXHnfftanfs on this as 10 how he is going MR. SPEAKER: You should have some 17 Oral AnsMtlS PAUSA 1, 1911 (SAKA) Oral AnsMNS 18 respect for the lady member. (c) the steps proposed to be taken by Government to control the prices? Shrimati Gaeta Mukherjee, pJease put the question. THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) "to (c). A state- ( Intenuptions) ment is given below.

Spurt In Prices of Essential Commodi- STATEMENT ties (a) and (b). The requisite information is *4. SHAIMATI GEETA MUKHE~EE: given in the annexure below. WiH the Minister of FINANCE be pleased to state: (c) The price situation is being given the highest priority by the government and the (a) whether the attention of Govern- monitoring mechanism is being strength- ment has been drawn to the spurt in the ened. The steps takenlproposed to be taken prices of essential commodities during the to control rise in prices include removing last few months; imbalances in the demand and supply of essential commodities, mopping up excess (b) if so, the month-wise, details of the liquidity in the economy and vigorous en- fluctuation in the prices of essential com- forcement of existing laws against hoarding modifies during the current year; and and profiteering. 19 Oral Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 Oral AnswelS 20 II) ::t: ~ <0 ex' ~ 0 ~ ex> 0) ,....0 crj 0 :... ~ ...... I cO "0 C\J 1 cu 0 1 I Q) en I 1

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SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: As etc. indicate that there is a downward luck would have it, my first question in this trend ... (Interruptions) Session is addressed to revered Finance Minister Shri Madhu Dandavate whose es- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oil also ... teemed wife Mrs. Dandavate and I and many PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Sir, I others here, have participated in the move- am only illustrating. The list is not exhaus- ment for bringing down the prices of essen- tive. Everything they say, I am not referring tial commodities. Therefore, natur:ally the to. I am just trying to tell the House that reply will have to be such that we can tell already there is a down-ward-trend and if those people to be happy and I believe his these prices are to be controlled, within a few wife and people like me and many others' months we will be able to control them. We wives here feel happy. I could understand are taking concrete steps. It is very neces- that enough time has not yet passed for sary that the supply and demand manage- answering this question in detail. Even then, ment is to be streamlined. We are taking I would like to remind this to the hen. Mil1is- necessary steps. It is necessary that the ter. The measures that have been cited here Public Distribution System has to be stream- are removing imbalances in the demand and lined and that is to be rationalised. We have supply of essential commodities, mopping already started the proc...ess. It is very neces- up excess liquidity in the economy and vig- sary that the wholesale dealers, who are orous enforcement of existing laws against trying to resort to hoarding, mustbeforcedtb hoarding and profiteering. What concrete release the stocks so that the consumers will steps are being taken in this regard? There be able to havethe proper access to all those is the annexure to the main reply and I am not commodities. The momentwegavethethreat going to deal with it. Had I dealt with this on the very first day of our Government as- Annexure, he would have understood that suming office that we shall not tolerate hoard- this is nothing. The whole-sale price indices ing and the stocks will have to be released, of certain commodities are very high. To you will appreciate that as far as commodi- curb this, what concrete steps are being ties like sugar are concerned, lot of stocks contemplated? I want to know within what were released and actually the prices have period of time it will done so that we can tell started coming down. There is also one some thing to the people that the Govern- more long-term measure which is very im- ment is taking some measures in this regard. portant.

PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Mr. Sir, all the economists have clearly Speaker, Sir, I am very glad that the very first accepted the fact that the parallel black money question that is addressed to me is a ques- economy is largely responsible for the inflation which is the highest priority of the new tionary pressure of the economy. Inflation Government i.e. rise in prices. She has asked creates shortages, shortages generate me to place before- the House the -correct blackmoney, blackmoney in turn also in- position. But I can swear by the Gita that I will creases inflation. Therefore, it will be the tell the truth to the House ... (Jnterruptions) endeavour of my Government to try various methods by which we will be able to control the bJackmoney. I will not spell out the details Sir, I have already presented a chart because the very person who are to be de~ which gives the regular position of the in- with will know of the steps that we are like to crease in prices of the commodities. In take and within that period, they will try to addition to that, I have with me fortunately circumvent it. More than that, certain long- the latest position as on 20th December term measures will become the part and 1989. J am happy to say that the trend of parcel of our packages on Vote-an-Account lowering of prices, which has started, will and the Budget and I do not want to indulge continue and all the figures regarding impor- in leakage of the Budget and become an- tant commodities like Sugar, Gur, Rice, Tea other Dalton who had. to resign for leaking 27 Oral AnswelS DECEMBER 22, 1989 Oral AnsWBIS 28

the Budget. These are the concrete he is going to demonetise Rs. 500 to Rs. 100 steps ... (Interruptions) I referred to all of them. and whether he is going to curtail the money I wish to make it very clear that as far as supply through the hoarders and also the certain agricultural commodities are con- . blackmarketers. cemed, when we find that due to extraneous factors the prices have gone up, there are PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: I would only two measures: one is to have the proper like to assure the former Finance Minister demand and supply machinery and sec- that apart from considering and re-examin- ondly whenever it is necessary in respect of ing whether the Essential Commodities Act certain sensttive commodities, when import has to.be re-examined or amended, what- becomes a rhust, although we will not resort ever poWers are available under the existing to indiscriminate imports, we wilt try to have laws aAd which had remained unused, we import in selective commodities' so that we will first try to utilise and harness the powers ,will be able to control the prices of the com- which are there. 'modities. We are confident that we will be able to fulfil that exercise. Only one more As regards the second point that has thing, I would like to mention. When we try to been raised, I am rather shocked and sur- have the selective imports of certain com- prised that the former Finance Minister is modities, they will be selective in terms of the asking me to declare on the Floor of the commodities and they will be selective at the House months before the presentation of the point of time we import. We will try to import, Budget whether I will be resorting to de- if necessary, at the time when the interna- monetisation. If you announce that in ad- tional prices of commodities are the lowest vance, that will destroy the very psychologi- and not when they are maximum as it was cal use of that. Therefore, I am not going to done by the previous Government. get into the trap. I do not know whether that is a clever move on the part of the previous SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: Finance Minister to make me leak out the While wishing success to the future meas- details and extract my resignation from the ures, may I ask whether the question of Finance Ministry. ' extending the public di~tribution system in rural areas at length is being contemplated? [Trans/ation]

PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: One of SHRIMATIJAYAWANTI NAVIN CHAN- the biggest complaints of the rural popula- ORA MEHTA: Mr. Speaker, Sir, Ever since tion has been that there has been a discrimi- the hone Minister of Finance assumed office, nation between the rural population and the the prices of some essential oommodities urban population. The constant endeavour have started showing a downward trend. I of my Government will be to see that the would like to congratulate him for this. Shri- disparities between the rural and urban mati Geeta Mukherjee has sought to know population is removed and the rural popula- specifically as to whetherthe prices of pulses tion is given the necessary advantage. will come down or not? What will be the approach of the Government towards the SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: I am price of pulses and what effort it would make really glad that the bitter critic of the Finance to bring down their prices? I would also like' Ministry particularly has become the Finance the hone Minister of Finance to state the Minister of the Gover~ent of India today. reasons as to why the prices of tea and sugar Now here, may I ask the hone Finance Min- had shot up at the end of September 1989. ister, in view of the spurt in prices whether he Besides. I would like to point out that medi- is going to bring an amendment to the Es- cine is also one of the essential items of life. sential Commodities Act to curb the hoard- I would like to know the steps proposed to be ing and also to have deterrent punishment? taken by the Government to contain the prices of medicines which registered an Secondly. I would like to know whether upward trend in the recent past. I would Ike 29 Oral Answers P~1,1911(~ to remind the han. Minister that at the time 01 available at cheaper rate. We are also when the Janata Party was in power at the thinking on these tines. I may also tel1hat • centre. PairnoJin oil was ~ at the rate may not be pmper to give oompIele detaIs of As. 6.50 per kg. and sold at As. 825 to the We have mooted JJIar!s to cheQ( the rising people. Now the palmotin oil is saling at As. trend in prbIs m lea a:JnS8qU8f'f 10 tal in 16 per kilogram. Wtlthe han. Ministarplaase prodclCtion. At a point of time the price of taa let me krpw if there are any possti1ties of had gone up to Rs. 70 per kilogram. but now reducing'the price of this oil? The objective it has come down m As. 42 per kiogram. befljnd my putting this question is to know Stmiiarly, I woutd ike 10 assuna this august the reasons for ina'ease in prices of medi- House that the Government wiI strive tor cines, edible oils. sugar and tea at the end of regulating the prices ofaxnmodities men- September. tioned by the han. Member.

PrIDF. UADHU OANOAVATE: To some AN HON. MEMBER: What are the extent~ I have given the reply to the question. reasons for price rise? This needs 10 be But I would 1*6 to give a detaied reply. White explained so that the people who speak on dealing with the first question, J woutd like to this issue may not rouse it time and again. submit that the produetion of sUQar is reported to have faUen short of the target which MR SPEAKER: Shri Kundu. prompted the Government at that time to resort to import. After taking a decision in this SHRI JAt PRAKASH N3AAWAL: Mr.. regard, import of sugar was made at a time SpeakerI Sir. most of the time, tha han. when the price of sugar had risen in the Members sitting on that side gat your aIIen- international market. tion. , Ufge you 10 pay attention to this side also especially to OeI1i1Bs. As regards the Kuo Oit Deaf. 1would 1«8 to potnt out that when the former Govern- [EngIsh) ment f~ the need for importing this oil •• was imported from Singapore. Instead of striking SHRI SAUARENORA KUNDU: Mr. a deal when the prices were Iow~ they exe- Speaker Sir, ,woutd like to compiment you, cuted the deaJ at the highest rate. We will not the new Government and particularly Prof. commit such a.mistake. Madhu Dandavale tor trying haId wlhin one week to show a positive result. Millions of I would like to tel! my hon. colleague that people W8f8 alected and loftured during the there could be two ways to bring down the black days of the Congress(f) regime. prices of the commodities she has pointed out in her question. FU"Stfy every effort needs The point is. as Prof. Uadhu Dandavate to be made to give more incentives to pr0- said, regarding sugar, certain reasons abat- ducers and discourage import. Secondty, if ted the shooting up c:j Is price. I feeJ every- the prices of these commodlies do not come body should know them so that this sort of down because of taU in production, the ugtv phenomenon is not rapeated. There Government wit have-to resort to import. should be .. enquiry as to why the price of You may fecal that when Janta Party was in sugar shot ~ flam As. 81- to As. 151- a kio power in 1977. a number of States availed of and whether there was a hera-pheti of As. the facnity of rapeseed oil which was im- 300 aore5, that is money passed through ported and distrbuted at a time when the some 01 the dealars, some agents and the prices of edble oils were not roming down.. people who were atso ruling at that time. It It was the Government of West Bengat which would be in the Rarest of the nation and also avaiJed maximum benefits. They pasted the ~ ~ at least know this. (Jnt9lnlp- posters in the country side telling the people lions) • not to purchase oil from the hoarcJets when the Government had large stocks 01 edi>Ie SEVERAl HON. MEMBERS: What is 31 Oral Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 Oral Answers 32 the question? are responsible forthe mal-practices and will solve the problem. SHRI SAMARENDRA KUNDU: The question is whether Prof. Madhu Dandavate, MR. SPEAKER: Next Question. han. Finance Minister will constitute an inquiry to find out why the prices of sugar shot Vacancies of Judges In Supreme Court up from Rs. 8/- per kg. to Rs. 15/- per kg. and and High Courts whether there was hera pheri of Rs. 300 crores in it and whether the palms of the people in the then ruling party, that agents + and other people were greased? (lnternip- *5. SHRI V. SREENIVASA tions)* PRASAD: SHRI M.V. CHANDRASEKHARA MR. SPEAKER: I have not permitted MURTHY: anyone except Prof. Madhu Dandavate. Will the Minister of LAW AND JUSTICE ( Interruptions)· be pleased to state:

PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Sir, I (a) the number of vacancies of judges would like to assure the House that in giving in various High Courts and Supreme Court; reply, I would not like to induct politics into this question. But, at the same time, consid- (b) the details thereof for each High ering the economic aspect of the problem, I Court and Supreme Court as on 30 Novem- would like to assure my friend, Shri Kundu; ber, 1989; and he has asked whether I would e~amine the proposition of setting up a Committee to (c) the steps contemplated by Govern- inquire into the factor that was responsible ment to fill these posts? for the rise in prices. I would like to tell him that the Finance Ministry feels that there is THE MINISTER OF STEEL AND MINES no need forthe Committee; we are already in AND MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE the know of the things about the mal-prac- (SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI): (a) and (b). A tices that have taken place. We are already statement showing the vacancies of Judges conscious of the aberrations in the policies in various High Courts and the Supreme and what corrections have to be done. (Inter- Court as on 30th November, 1989 is given ruptions) below.

SKRI Y.S. RAJASEKHAR REDDY: (c) Selection of Judges involves delib- Have you taken action? (Interruptions) erations in consultation with the concerned constitutional authorities and is a continuous PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Yes. I process. Government are making all pos- welcome the suggestion that has come from sible efforts to ensure the delay that occurs the opposition that we should take action. in filling up the vacancies of judges at various We will take firm action against those who levels is reduced to the minimum. STATEMENT

Vacancies in Various High Coutts as on 30-11-1989

S.No. High Court Number of Vacancies

1. Allahabad 11 2. Andhra Pradesh 8

*Not recorded. 33 Oral Answers PAUSA 1, 1911 (SAKA) Oral Answers 34

S.No. High Court Number of Vacancies

3. Bombay 5

4. Calcutta 3

5. Delhi 6

6. Gauhati

7. Gujarat 8

8. Himachal Pradesh 2

9. Jammu & Kashmir 2

10. Karnataka 6

11. Kerala 2

12. Madhya Pradesh 7

13. Madras 6

14. Orissa

15. Patna 7

16. Punjab & Haryana 4

17. Rajasthan 3

18. Sikkim 2

Total 83

II Supreme Court: Sanctioned strength 26

Actual strength 24

Vacancies 2

SHRI V. SREENIVASA PRASAD: Sir, SHRI V. SREENIVASA PRASAD: The the time is too short. So, I shall put both the Minister has stated, in his reply, that the Supplementaries? process of consuttation and deliberation in the selection of judges under the Rules, MR. SPEAKER: Put your question first. consumes inescapable delay. Moreover, the 35 WriIIaa AIlS. 8IIS DECEMBER 22. 1989

search tor ..favouIad paiSOlIS,...... than to COl ..... poley of transfer ~ fi91 the taIenled. adds ., .. delay in 1he poc- Coutt Judges; and ess. So. the casuaIr is p&tiic IIiganIs ... justice. ~ I would "10 know from (c) i not, what wot*j be the policy 01 the Minister whether he is pIaI.1ing 10 cut Go\:emment in the malter; short this process..t pIOVidesame sp aa dy method to .. up the vacancies? TtEMNSTEROFSTEELANDMWES SHRI DlNESH GOSWMt Sir, the AND WNISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE procedure tor GIfJPC'At.,WMtof" jIdgas had (SHRI DINESH GOSWAUI): (a) Yes, Sir. been laid down ins !he ConstiIutiDn itseI. Therefore. if we want to change the poce- (b) and (c). Even though consuIaIion dure. a constitutiOnal amendment wiI be with the ChiaI Jt lSIice of India is necessary in necessary. We are examining the whole fNfIIY case oftranster of a puisne Judge, the maner, at 1he present moment. But, at the Government wit oonsider such a transfer same time, under the constiIutionat provi- ona, on the racommendation of the Chief ~ we ought 10 consuI1he Chief Justice Justice of India. of India, the Gowernor of a SUb and in the case of judges, the Chief Justice of the High Court. Now. il many ~ new Chief Ministers have come and newGovamments haw come into being. Of course, we have referred those cases back, tor their opinions *8. SHRI ARVINO NETAM: Will the and so it is going m lake some time. Minister of FINANCE be P'eased to stale:

For the broader ",18S1ian, whether we (a) the total assets of the ~ are contemplating any change in the pr0ce- banks in 1he country; dure tor seIecti>n 01 a judge iseI, thai will be a part which we wit disalSS whie consider- (b) whether Government propose to ing the aspects 01 pdcial raform.. At the COIIdone the bat* loans below As. 10,0001- present moment we have no proposal as in 1he agricuftural sedor, such for changing the f'J'OC8dan.

"WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS (d) the manner in which Government propose to oompensate the banks in 1his regard?

TIE YlNlSTER OF FINAHCE (PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) According to ·7. SHRI V.N. GADGI..: Wit the Minis- Raserve Bank of India. the IDCaI assets of 28 ter of LAW AND ~ b)apaaased to pubic sector banks as on 28th July. 1989 stale: _" was As. 2.44.soo aoJ8S. As per WOIking ---..-.. -~--, rasuIs d the abow8 banks the profits for the yea condudng 31st March, 1989 was As. 365C1018S.

(b) The Government ..taka appropriate steps to provide ~ relief for ma-ginaI 37 Wrlten Answers PAUSA 1, 1911 (SAKA) Written AnsW91S 38 farmers, landless agricultural labourers. ar- national Trade Fair (IITF) held in Delhi re- tisans and weavers on loans below Rs. cently; 10,000. (b) the volume of trade turnover from (c) and (d). RBI has estimated the share the Fair, of small and marginal farmers in the outstanding loans of commercial banks and (c) whether any new agreements were cooperatives in Agriculture Sector at about entered into with other countries for exports Rs. 12,000 crores. Government desires to and imports during the Fair; and ensure that richer sections of the society and wiHuI defaulters do not get benefit in the (d) if so, the details thereof? process and further that the cradbility of the financial institutions does not get eroded. THE MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND The modalities of providing debt relief to TOURISM (SHAI ARUN KUMAR NEHRU): specified groups are being examined in (a) While 11TF-89 covered various aspects of consultation with the Reserve Bank of India industry. agriculture, trade, science & tech- and the National Bank for Agriculture and nology atc., the special displays were on:- Rural Development. (i) Environment-Air, Water, New Note Printing Press at Salbonl, Earth and West Bengal (ii) Essential Oils, Fragrances *9. DR. SUDHIR ROY: Will the Minister and Flavours. of FINANCE be pleased to state: (b) to (d). It is difficuh to quantify thb (a) whether Government .are consider- business booked and agreements signed ing to set up a New Note Printing Press at during the fair because business usually Salboni in Wast Bengal; and results over a period of time after the fair. The principal objectives of the IITF ate to facili- (b) if so, the details thereof? tate business contads, project export capa- bilities, to offer technology options to Indian THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. industry and create. greater awareness MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) and (b). Gov- among the Indian public about developments emment have approved the setting up two in different fields. New Note Printing Presses, one at Salboni in West Bengal and the other at Mysore in Decontrol of Newsprint Import Kamataka. The estimated cost of t~e two projects is As. 844 crores. The presses are *11. SHRI BANWAR! LAL PUROHIT: designed to print about 5000 million pieces Will the Minister of INFORMATION AND of currency notes per annum, each. BROADCASTING AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS be pleased to state: :Trade Turnover from IITF (a) whether there is a persistent de- *10. SHRI UTTAM RATHOD: Will the mand for the decontrol of newsprint import; Minister of COMMERCE AND TOURISM be pleased to state: (b) whether Government propose to decontrol the import of newsprint and if so, (a) the main features of the India Inter- when; and 39 Written Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 Written Answers 40

(c) what other assistance Government (b) if so, when? propose to given to newspaper industry? THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) A paper on the AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF current economic situation is proposed to be PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. circulated. UPENDRA): (a) Yes, Sir. (b) In the current session of the Lok (b) and (c). The matter is engaging the Sabha. attention of the Government. [ Trans/ation] Economic Offences Utilisation of Foreign Debts *12. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Will the Minister of FINANCE *14. SHRI HUKMDEO NARAYAN be pleased to state: YADAV: Will the Minister of FINANCE be pleased to state: (a) the number of cases of economic offences which were shelved or closed dur- (a) the amount of foreign debts and ing the last five years; and outstanding interest thereon, country-wise;

(b) whether Government propose to re- (b) the extent of loans taken for the open any of these cases? payment of interest and when each such loan was taken during the last three years; THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) No case of (c) whether Government propose to set economic offences has been shelved or up a high-level Commission to ascertain closed during the last years. However, in a whether these foreign loans were properly few cases of Income-Tax offences, prosecu- utilised; and tions sanctioned were withdrawn on further indepth examinations of the relevant Direct (d) if so, the time by which such a Tax laws and regulations and the applicabil- Commission is to be set up? ityof schemes such as the Amnesty Scheme (1 985-87) framed under those regulations. THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) A statement if (b) There is no such proposal at pres- given below. ent. (b) Payment of interest on loans outstanding are made from our exports and White Paper on Country's Economy gross invisible earnings. As such no loans were contracted for the payment of interest *13. SHRIP.CHIDAMBARAM: Willthe in the past. Minister of FINANCE be pleased to state: (c) and (d). No, Sir. Government have, (a) whether Government propose to lay however, been following a cautious policy of a White Paper on the state of the economy external borrowings and closely monitoring or. the Table of the House; and the utilisation of these loans. 41 Written Answers PAUSA 1, 1911 (SAKA) Written Answers 42

STATEMENT

External debt outstanding as on 31.3. 1989 and payment of interest during 1989-90

(Rs. Crores)

51. No. Name of Country Debt outstanding Payment of Interest Government Account as on 31.3.1989 during 89-90 (Estimates)

1 2 3 4

1. Austria 61.43 1.37

2. Belgium 152.32 1.06

3. Canada 904.58 0.01

4. France 1534.36 76.82

5. F.R.G. 3913.93 65.09

6. Denmark 206.29 0.00

7. Italy 214.79 3.62

8. Japan 4633.39 165.90

9. Netherlands 1372.97 32.41

10. U.K. 514.59 0.36

11. U.S.A. 4254.21 92.78

12. Switzerland 36.34 1.04

13. Abu Dhabi 13.89 0.51

14. Kuwait Fund 320.29 13.87

15. Saudi Fund 84.83 3.05

16. U.A.E. 46.10 1.10

17. Czechoslovakia 15.04 0.10

18. Hungary 0.37 0.01

19. Poland 0.05 0.00 '43 WIiaM AnS1Ias DECEMIER 22. 1989 WtIIM AlasIlWS 44

(Rs. Ctotes)

SL Name at CounIIy Debt oatslinfng Payment oIlntetest '*'. GotI."",.", Aoct:Jtn as on 31.3. 1989 duting 89-90 (EstimaIBs)

1 2 3 .-

20. U.S.RR. 1416.81 45.06

21. Iran 423.56 0.82

TOTAl 20120.14 504.98

Non-Govemment Account

1. Canada 10.45 0.55

2- FAG. 345.24 8.12

3. U.SA 50.11 2.46

TOTAL.: 405.80 11.13

GRAND TOTAL: 20525.94 516.11

N.B.- The above ~uras do not ilcIude borrowings from mulilateral instib.Olns and axtamaI commercial borrowings since these cannot be aIb<:atad by country.

(EnpIsh) (c) I so, when; and

Sepande HIgh Court for Arunachal (d) I nat. 1he reasons thereIor? Pradesh _1IanIIgaw nEMlNISTEROFSTEELANDUlNES *15. SHRI P.K THUNGON: Wit the AND UlNJSTER OF LAW AND .lJSTICE Minister of LAW AND JUSTICE be pleased (SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI): (a) The Juris- to slate: didion mGuwahati High Court extends over ArunidlaI Pradesh.. (b) whether the people ltOm Arunachal Pradesh are requinJdlD travef brag distaJlCSS (b) to (d). Even though it has been to gat justice from GuwahaIi High Cowt; decided to establish a separate High Court for each d tt. Stales in the north-eastem (b) I so, whether there is a proposal to region. the Government of Arunachal estabIsh a ~ -High Court tor ArUn- Pradesh have 0I*d tor a Cira.tit Bench of achal PrCMIesh at tanagar; the GuwahaIi High Court for the preserL PAUSA 1, 1911 (SAKA)

Doordarshan Transmission Coverage Kendra. T rivandrum, for relay of programmes of Kerala Districts originating from Trivandrum. The expansion of Regional TV Service in KeraIa MXdd *16. SHRI MUlLAPPAlLY RAMA- depend upon future availability of resources CHANDRAN: W. -the Minister of INFOR- and requisite tacilities. MATION AND BROADCASTING AND PARl.JAUENTARY AFFAIRS be pleased to [ Translalion] stale: Overs•• s unit of General Insurance (a) whether an distncts in the State of Corporation Kerala are covered t:¥ the Ooordarshantrans- mission; ·17. SHRI RAMASHRAY PRASAD SINGH: Wit the Uinister of ANA~ (b) if not, the districts yet to be covered; pleased to state:

(c) whether '#Iork has cctnmenced to (a) whether Government propose to set linkthese rE:fnaining district~. u nder the micro- up an overseas unit of the Genera, Insur- wave system: and ance Corporation of India for insurance business abroad: and (d) the time by which these are likety to be covered? (b) if so. the steps proposed to be taken by Govemment in this regard? THE MINISTER Of INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. MADHUOANDAVATE): (a) and (b). No, Sir. UPENORA): ta) to (d). A» the 14 distrids of The tour subsidiary companies of the Gen- KeraJa are covered by TV Service, whoIy or eral Insurance Corporation .of India viz. (i) partially. The Regb\aI TV Service emanat- NaDonaIInsuranca Company ltd., (i) New ing from Doordarshan Kandra, Trivandrum, India Ansurance Company ltd., (iii) OrienIaA is relayed at present only by the High Power Insurance Company ltd. and (iv) Unilad (10 KW) TV tranS.,litters at Trivandrum and India insurance Company ltd. are aIreadr Cochin and the Low Power (100 W) TV operating in 31 counlries abroad. Out 01 transmiter at CaIicut and is avaiIabfe. whoRy these 31 alUntries. they are operatirg in 17 or partially, inial the districts except three. COtM'ltries directly through BralCheslAgen- namety I Kasargod, Wayanad and Cannan- cies and in 14 countries through Associ..., ore. SubsiOrary Companies as under:-

DirecIJy through Branches and Agencies The Vtl ?fan 01 Doordarshan indudes a scheme tor replacement of the existing low (1 ) Australia Power (100 W) TY transmitter cll CaJicut bu a (100 KW) TV transmitter. With the compte- (2) Bahrain lion of this project. Regional TV Service is expected to be available to almost entire (3) Canada districts of Wayanad and Cannanore also. The VII Pian at Dootdarshan. however. does (4) Fiji not have any scheme to link anyother trans- mi1tar in the Slate wid) the Ooordarshan (5) FratlCf) Written Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 Written Answers 48

(6) Hong Kong (12) Antigua

(7) Japan (13) liberia

(8) Kuwait (14) Singapore

(9) t,,1auritius [English1

(10) Nepal Raids in Orissa for Economic Offences

(11 ) Netherlands Antilles *18. SHRI ANADI CHARAN DAS: Will the Minister of FINANCE be pleased to state: (12) Oman (a) the steps taken by Government in (13) Phillippines the last two years to tackle and apprehend economicoffenders anctax evaders in Orissa ( 14) Saudi Arabia particularly in Bhubaneswar, Cuttack, Rour- kala and Sambalpur; ( 15) Thailand (b) whether any raids have been con- (16) United Arab Emirates ducted at the above places during the last two years; (17) United Kingdom (c) if so~ the outcome thereof; and Through Subsidiaries & Associate Compa- nies (d) if not, the reasons therefor?

(1 ) Barbados THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) Combating tax- (2) Dominica evasion and economic offences is acontinu- ous process. The Government takes neces- (3) Guyana sary administrative and legislative steps as deemed appropriate from time to time to (4) Ghana combat tax-evasion and economic offences by persons all over the country includ.ing (5) Jordan those in Orissa.

(6) Kenya (b) and (c). The Central Excise authorities conducted two search in Cuttack and (7) Malaysia three in Bhubaneswar during the last two years resulting in detection of the Evasion of (8) Nigeria Central Excise duty to the tune of Rs.· 2.19 lakhs and also seized incriminating docu- (9) Sierre Leone ments.

(10) Trinidad & Tobago The Income-Tax authorities conducted 106 searches in Orissa during the last two (11 ) St. Lucia years resulting in seizure of unaccounted 49 Written Answers PAUSA 1, 1911 (SAKA) Written Answers 50 assets of the value of Rs. 4.19 crores. intimated that they did not transfer these shares directly to any investment company (d) Does not arise. of any industrial group.

Acquisition of Shares of Larsen and As the matter is subjudice and is pend- Toubro ing before the Supreme Court, the Govern- ment will consider the necessary action after *19. SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: Will the the Supreme Court judgement. In the mean Minister of FINANCE be pleased to state: time the Chairman and Managing Director of the Bank of Baroda has been advised to (a) Whether the attention of Govern- proceed on leave. ment has been drawn to the alleged role of Bank of Baroda Fiscal Services in acquiring Development of Kanyakumari as a Larsen and Toubro equity on its account and Tourist Centre subsequently transferring them to investment companies belonging to a certain in- *20. SHRI N. DENNIS: Willthe Minister dustrial group: and of COMMERCE AND TOURISM be pleased to state: (b) it so. the details thereof and the action taken or propose to be taken in this (a) whether there is a proposal to de- regard? velop Kanyakumari as a tourist centre; and

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. (b) if so, the details thereof? MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) Yes, Sir. THE MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND (b) In response to a request from BOB TOURISM (SHRI ARUN KUMAR NEHRU): Fiscal Services Ltd. (a wholly owned sub- (a) and (b). During the Seventh Five Year sidiary of Bank of Baroda), UTI, LIC and GIC Plan, a number of scheme were sanctioned had in August-September. 1988 offered them by the Central Department of Tourism on the a basket of blue chip equity share, including request of the State Government of Tamil 39 lakh shares of L& T, which was accepted Nadu for development of Kanyakumari as a by BOB Fiscal at the market rates prevailing tourist centre. A list of the scheme sanc- on the date of purchase. BOB Fiscal have tioned is given below:-

Amount sanctioned

1 . Construction of 8 cottages Rs. 13.36 lakhs

2. Construction of a Cafeteria Rs. 6.02 lakhs

:3 Tou! ist amenitIes at bathing ghats Rs. 3.57 lakhs

4. Purchase 01 a Ferry Launch As. 39.07 lakhs

5. Floodlighting at Vivekanand Rock Rs. 11.19 lakhs Memorial DECEMBER 22, 1969 WrMtsn Ans.8fS 52

Stock Exchange at Cuttact assets of the value of As. 13.98 crores in all were seized besides incriminating d0cu- 1. SHRI ANADI CHARAN OAS: Wilthe ments. The persons seatehed, in their staIe- Mlnister of FINANCE be pjeased to state: ments on oath, given during the ause of these seaR:hes, haw in aggregale. admit- (a) whether oonsidering the popular ted unaccounted nx.ne to the tune of As. demands, Govemment are contempjating to 39.99 crores. Appropriate action as called set up a Stock Excoange at Cuttack. tile tor under .the Direct Taxes enacments is (;oollTlerciaiJ.;apttat of Orissa: ·~':lnd taken in aJl these cases.

(0, if fiOl. tile reasons lheretor? As the number of cases is large. it is not practtcabte to fumish case-wise details. THE MINtsTEROF FINANCE (PROF. MADHU DANOAVATE): ta) Nc. Sir. FM AiR. Station of Cannanora, Kerala

(0) Government have not received any 3. SHRl U UlLA PAllY RAMACHAN- formal proposai for setting up a Stock Ex- DRAN: WdJ the Minister of WF<>RMA TK>N change at Cuttack. A Stock Exchange at AND BROADCASTING AND P ARlIAMEN- Bhubaneshwar in Orissa has already been TARY AFFAIRS be pleased to state: granted recognition. (a) whether work on the FM A. I. R. Raids on the Premises of Property Station at Cannanore, KeraJa has been Dealers compteted;

2. SHRI KAMAl CHAUDHRY: Wul the (b) if so, when is the same taeJy to be Minister of FINANCE be pleased to state: started; and

(a) the number and details of raids (d) the total out!ay on the project? conducted by Income Tax Department during 1989 on the estabishments and residen- THE MINISTER OF INFORMATK>N hai prenuses of property

(b) if so, the steps taken or proposed to 6. SHRI HARISH RAWAT: Wilt the be taken to set up ntckel plant in Orissa? Uinister of INFORMATION AND BROAD- CASTING AND PARlIAMENTARY AF- THE MINISTER OF STEElAHD MINES FAIRS be pleased to state: AND MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE (SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI): (a) There are (a) whether Government have decided large nickel ore deposits of poor grade in to postpone the construction work of various Sukinda Valley in Orissa. These ores are not categories of television towers sanctioned being exported. for Uttar Pradesh;

(b) Sanction was accorded for setting (b) if so, the reasons therefor; up of a nickel plant In Orissa in 1974 based on indigenous technology. However, the (c) if not, the names 01 places where the technology devetoped on laboratory scale constructDn work of these towers is likely to when te3ted on a pilot ptant did not yield be completed by the end of the current satisfactory results. An evaluation carried financial year; and out ind.cated that further ioves~ation ~ required before preparation of a feasibititj (d) the time by which the construction report may cost about Rs. 49 crores. In view work of TV towers at Champawat, Bagesh- of the adverse economics of producing rnckeJ ; war, Didihat and Manila in Uttar Pradesh wiD irom the low grade ores of Sukinda and be compteted? ...:onstralots on resources, th~ project was not pursued. THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF [ Tfans/alion] PARLIAMEN.TARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. UPENDRA): (a) No, Sir. Merger of Regional RJ,ra. Banks with Sponsoring ~anks (b) Does not arise. i (c) Whereas 15 low power (100W) TV 5. SHRI HARISH RAWAT: Will the transmitters, one each at Akbarpur. Minister of FINANCE be pleased to state: Azamgarh, B~un, Basti, Balrampur, Fatehpur. Gond£hpur. Kashipur. (a) whether Government have taken Lalganj, Mathura. , Obra. Sitapur and any decision in regard to the merger of ali the Thirwa; 2 very low (2x10W) TV trans- regional rural banks with their sponsoring mitters, one each at . i and Ranidlet, banks; and and 2 TV transp0ser5. one each at New TeM and Srinagar, have been so far com- missioneH iltoservice in Uttw Pradesh dwing (b) if so. the time by which this decision thecurrentfinancialyear, a low power (1 OOW) is likely to be imptemented? TV transmitter at Haridwar and a very bw power (2x1 OW) TV transmitter at DharchuJa THE MlNISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. are, according 10 present indications. ex- MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) No. Sir. pected 'to be commissOned irto service during the remaining part of the aJrr&nt fi- (b, Does not arise. nancial year (1989-90). I, 55 Written Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 Written Answers 56

(d) There is, at present, no approved has, however, identified the following sec- scheme to set up TV transmitters at Cham- tors where black money is generally gener- pawat. Bageshwar, Didihat and Manila in ated: Utter Pradesh. (i) Real estate transactions Quantum of Black Money (ii) large scale manufacturing 7. SHRI HARISH RAWAT: Will the Minister of FINANCE be pleased to state: (iii) film industry

(a) tile estimated amount of black money (iv) the professions ill circulation in the country at present; (v) construction (b) whether Government propose to .,.. idenlif,' t/1e sources lhereoi and take stEPSto (vi) smuggling ~\im;n<'Jlethem: and Combatting tax evasion is a oontinuous (C) if so, the details thereof? exercise. The Government takes necessary legislative and administrative measures as .THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. deemed appropriate from time to time to MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) There is no curbthe generation, growth and use of black cllicial estimate of the amount of black money money. Some of the measures taken by the in circulation in the country. The National Income-tax Department include the follow- Institute of Public Finance and Policy in their ing: \ report tilled 'Aspects of Black Economy in India' have estimated the amount of black (i) Systematic survey operations; r'Yjo[~eyfor 1983-84 betv•.em1 Rs. 31,584 to 36,786 crores. The authors have, however, (ii) Search and seizure operations aornittsd that theil estimate IS based on in appropriate case; :~,!ll1erous assumptions and approximations. They have also admitted that amongst other (iii) Verification of information by limitations, their estimate fails to adequately Central Information Branches in take into account, the fol'owinq: a Planned manner;

(il evasion through corporate cover; (iv) In depth investigation in a selected number of cases; (I:) undeclared capital qarns, income from illegal current economic (v) pre-emptivepurchase of immov- activities and illegal transfers: and able property by the Central Government under the provisions (ii:) lega: avoidance through' trust, of Chapter XXC of the Income- H.U.Fs. etc. tax Act in certain notified cities.

(b) and (C). The sources from which Autonomy to Doordarshan and all India black money is found to be generated have Radio no permanence as such. These keep on changing irorn time la time. The report by the 8. SHRI HARISH RAWAT: National Institute of Public Finance & Policy SHRI ARVIND NETAM: 57 Wnlten Answers PAUSA 1" 1911 (SAKA)

SHRI P.K. THUNGON: change:. etc.. in the various Export Process- SHRI fNORAJIT GUPTA: ing Zones" Adiln on various observations would be finalised soon in consuIation with Will the Minister of INFORMA noN AND the Development Commissioners of the BROADCASTING AND PARLIAMENTAAY Zones. AFFAIRS be pleased to state: llarger of HCI with ITDC (a) whether Government have taken a decision to set up autonomous bodies lor 11. SHRIMATI GEETA YUKHERJEE: Doordarshan and AU India Radio; WiU the Minister of COMMERCE AND TOURISM be pleased to st.. : (b) if so, the details thereof and the reasons therefor: and (a) whether there is a proposal tor the merger of the Hotel Corporalion of India (c) if not, the time by which a decision is (Hel) with the India Tourism Devetopment likely to be taken in this regard? Corporafun (ITDC); and

THE MINISTER Of INFORMATION (b) if so, the details thereof? AND BROADCASTiNG AND ~AINISTER OF PARLiAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. THE MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND UPENDRA): (a) to (c). Yes, Sir. A bill to set TOURISM (SHRI ARUN KUMAR NEHRU): up an autonomous broadcasting Corpora- (a) and (b). The question of merger of HCI tion is being introduced in this session of with rroc has been dropped tor present. Parliament. Export of Betel Leaves {English] 13. SHRI HANNAN MOU.AH: Wi. the C&AG's Report on Export Processing Minister of COMMERCE AND TOURISM be Zones pleased to state:

10. SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: (a) whether Government propose to Will the Minister of COMMERCE AND increase the export of betel leaves: and _TOURISM be pleased to state: (b) if so. the details thereof?

(a) whether the ComptroUer and Audi- THE MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND tor GeneraJ of India (C&-AG) in its report on TOURISM (SHRI ARUN KUMAR NEHRU): Union Gove.rnment (Civo) (No. 16 of 1989) (a) and (b). Export of belalleaves is fraeIr has flayed Export Processing Zones (EPZs) aIowed~ The Agricultural and Pmcessed for POOl performance; and Food Products Export Development Author- ity (APEDA). an autonomous body tnier the (b) if so, the detaits of action by Govern- Ministry of Commerca" assists in the promo- ment thereon? tion of exports of various agricultmlI products including betel leaves. THE MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND TOURISM (SHRI ARUN KUMAR NEHRU): lnv..... i8Id on Tourism In West BenpI (a) and (b~ The report of C&AG has pointed 14. SHRI HANNAN YX.LAH: WiI the out certain shortfals relating to value addi- Minister~COMMERCEANO TOURISM be tion" export targets, earning of foreign ex- pleased 10 stale: 59 Written Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 Written Answers 60

(a) whether Government propose to Song and Drama Division release additional funds for promotion of tourism in West Bengal; and 15. SHRI V.N. GADGIL:Wili the Minis- ter of INFORMATION AND BROADCAST- (b) if so, the details of projects selected ING AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS be for the purpose? pleased to state:

THE MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND (a) whether Government propose to TOURISM (SHRI ARUN KUMAR NEHRU): abolish the Song and Drama Division; and (a) and (b). Yes, Sir. The Central Depart- ment of Tourism extends financial assis- (b) if so, the reasons therefor; tance to State Govts. on proposals put forward by concerned State Governments. The THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION Central assistance depends on the viability AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF of the project proposed by State Govern- PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. ments and the funds available with the Central UPENDRA): (a) No, Sir. Government. The following projects have been selected for Central assistance and (b) Does not arise. they are being executed in West Bengal :- Opening of Second Channel of Door- 1. Construction of Cottages at Ajodhya darshan by States Hills 16. SHRI V.N. GADGIL: 2. Tourist Lodge at Digha SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM:

3. Wayside facilities at Durgapur Will the Minister of INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING AND PARLIAMENTARY 4. Tourist accommodation at Shanti- AFFAIRS be pleased to state: niketan (a) whether Government propose to 5. Tourist facilities at Mukutmanipur allow State Governments to open second 61 Doordarshan; and 6. Cottage blocks at Gadiara (b) if so, the proposed organisational 7. Yatri Niwas at Oarjeeling structure for the second channel?

8. Mounting of Sound and Light Show THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION at Rabindra Bharti Universi Cal- AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF cutta. ; PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHAt P. UPENDRA); (a) No, Sir. 9. Yatrika at Mayapur (b) Does not arise. 10. Yatrika at Gangasagar Uniform Civil Code 11. Launch for Cruises on the River Hoogly. 17. SHRI V.M. GADGIL: Will the Minis- 12. Floating accommodation, Sunder- ter of LAW AND JUSTICE be pleased to bans. state: 61 - Written Answers PAUSA 1, 1911 (SAKA) Written Answers 62

(a) whether Government propose to Minister of LAW AND JUSTICE be pleased introduce a uniform civil code in the country; to state the steps being taken to implement and the recommendation of Jaswant Singh Commission to establish benches of High (b) if so, the salient features thereof? Courts particularly in Raipur (M.P.) and Western Utter Pradesh? THE MINISTEROF STEEL THE MINES AND MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE THEMINISTEROFSTEELANDMINES (SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI): (a) No, Sir. AND MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE The Government will not interfere on its own (SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI): Proposals in in the personallaws·of the minority commu- the light of the recommendations made by nities. Uniform Civil Code can be introduced the Jaswant Singh Comm ission for location only when the initiative comes from the of benches of the High courts at specific minority communities for the same. places have not been received from the States of Madhya Pradesh and Unar (b) Does not arise. Pradesh.

Hindi News from all Stations of Door- Performance of Hindustan Steelworks darshan Construction Lim ited

18. SHRI V.N. GADGIL \fIlill the Minis- 20. SHRI ARVIND NETAM: Will the ter of INFORMATION AND BROADCAST- Minister of STEEL AND MINES be pleased ING AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS be to state: pleased to state: (a) whether there is a proposal to close (a) whether Government propose to down the Hindustan Steelworks Construc- inIroduce Hindi news trom all stations of tion Lim ited; Doordarshan: and (b) if so, the reasons therefor; and (b) if so, whether Government propose IO consult State Governments before intro- ducing Hindi news from all stations? (c) if ndt, the steps proposed to be taken to improve its working and financial status as THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION a construction company? AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. UPENDRA): (a) and (b). Doordarshan is THE MINISTER OF STEELAND MINES already telecasting' news bulletin in Hindi in AND MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE its morning transmission which is relayed by (SHRI DINESH GOSWAM1): (a) No, Sir. all the Kendras. The Hindi bulletin telecast at 8.40 p.m. is put out from all the Kendras, B-xcept Doordarshan Kendra, Madras and its (b) Does not arise. linked transmitter at Kodaikanaf, which put out Tamil bulletin at that hour. (c) Careful diversitication of cost effec-' tive orders in sectors besides steel, improve- Implementation of Recommendation 9f ment in operationai"management and imple- , Jaswant Singh Commission mentation of an attractive vpluntary retire- ment scheme are steps which would im- 19. SHRI ARVIND NETAM: Will the prove the financial status of the company. 63 Written Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 Written Answers 64

Seizure of Gold and Narcotics (c) the further steps proposed to be taken to curb smuggling operations espe- 21. SHRI UTTAM RATHOD: Will the cially from across the borders and from air- Minister of FINANCE be pleased to state: ports?

(a) the details of seizures of smuggled THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. gold and narco1ics made in important cities MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) The quantity during the last six months, and value of contraband gold and the quantity of various narcotic drugs seized through- (b) whether the persons involved in the out the country during the last six months sm uggling operations were apprehended and from June to November, 1989 are given prosecuted; and below:-

Quantity Value (in Kgs.) (Rs. in crores)

Gold 3792.77 117.44

NarcotIc drug~

(i) OpIum 2298 No precise value of the seized drugs can be (ii) Morphine 11 estimated as this is dependent upon various (iii) Heroin 1121 factors like: purity, place of origin, local (iv) Hashish (charas) 4437 demand and supply etc.

(v) Ganja 11584

(vi) Methaqualone 562

(Figures are provisional)

(b) and (c). The Government is firmly cars are being equipped with sophisticated resolved to combat sm uggling into ana out of weapons like; self-loading rifles. the country including that from across the border and through airports. Close co-ordi- Apart from penalising the persons found nation is being maintained among all the involved in smuggling activities in depart- agencies (such as Border Security Force, mental adjudications, such persons are also Assam Rifles and State Police) concerned arrested/prosecuted in the Couns of law in with the detection and preventlor. of smug- suitable cases. They are also being detained gling activities. under the provisions of Conservation of Foreign Exchange and Prevention of Smug- Sophist,cated equipment such as : X- gling Activities Act, 1974 and the Prevention ray oaggc:J€ machir'es, r.1etal detectors. Drug of Illicit Trafficking in Narcotic Drugs and lJontification Kits, night-vIsion binoculars are Psychotropic Substances Act, 1988, if con- being increasingly used. The Customs Offi- sidered necessary. 65 Written Answers PAUSA 1,1911 (SAKA) Written Answers 66

Development of Tourist spots in likely to be incurred; and Ma harashtra (c) when the work to develop these 22. SHRI BANWARI LAl PUROHIT: tourist spots is likely to commence? Will the Minister of COMMERCE AND TOURISM be pleased to state: THE MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND TOURISM (SHRI ARUN KUMAR NEHRU): (a) whether Government h~ve a pro- (a) Yes, Sir. posal to develop some tourist spots in Ma- harashtra during the Eighth Plan period; (b) The following projects have been proposed to the Department of Tourism by (b) if so, the details of the spots to be the State Government of Maharashtra for developed and the estimated expenditure development of tourist spots in the State:-

Estimated cost (Rs. in /akhs)

1. 8e~ch Resort at Bassein near Bombay 45.58

2. Construction of Cottages and Dormitories at Lomar. 12.63

3. Holiday Resort at Chikkaldhara 51.25

4. Motel at fvlahed 30.00

5. New HOliday Resort at Pahhala 42.16

6. Tourist Resort at Buldhana 26.56

7. Construction of New Jetty at Elephanta , 00.00

8. Holiday Resort at Ganpatipule Estimated costs of the projects are awaited from 9. Sea Beach Resort at Murud the State Government.

10. Passenger oriented wayside amenities at Manor. J

(c) After finalisation of the Annual Plan (a) whether the attention of Govern- tor 1990-91, Department of Tourism wlll merlt has been drawn to the news item consider the projects for sanction. appearing in 'The Hindustan Times' dated December 8, i 989 captioned 'Judges de- Suggestion 01 All India Chief Justices' mand pay panel salary'; Conference

23. PROF. VIJA Y KUMAR MALHOTRA: -{b) if so. the details of the suggestions Will the Minister of LAW AND JUSTICE be made in the two-day AlIlndia Chief Justices pleased to state: Conference held in New Delhi; and 67 Written Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 . Written Answers 68

(c) the action proposed to be taken by [ Translation] Government in this regard? Pending Cases in High Courts THE MIN ISTER OF STEEL AND MINES AND MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE 25. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR (SHRI DtNESH GOSVVAMI): (a) Yes, Sir. MALHOTRA:Will the Minister of LAW AND JUSTICE be pleased to state: (b) Uniform pay scales, Higher retire- ment age, increased pensionary benefits, (a) the number of cases pending in the. better medical facilities and more facilities to High Courts at present, court-wise; retiring Judges, as well as enhanced financial powers to High Courts were some of the (b) the court-wise break up of cases important suggestions made in the Chief pending for more than one year; Justices' Conference. (c) the number of cases pending for (c) These suggestions are being exam- more than five years; and ined by the Government. (d) the steps proposed to be taken by Increase in the Prices of Steel Government to provide speedy and cheap justice? 24. PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA: Will the Minister of STEEL THE MINISTER OF STEEL AND MINES AND MINES be pleased to state: AND MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE (SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI):' (a) to (c). A (a} whetherthere lIas been steep rise in statement is given below. the prices of steel during the last one year: (d) In order to further streamline the (b, If ~:), ~::8 reasons therefore: and functioning of courts and with a view to deliverirt9 cheap and speedy justice at the i (.,) : nE. steJ:.::- proposed to be taken by door steps of the com man man, Govern- Union Government to bring down the prices ment entrusted the study of judicial reforms of steel? to the Law Commission. Some of its important recommendations pertain to the setting THE MINISTEROFSTEELANDMINES up of Gram Nyayalayas at village level for AND THE MINSTER OF LAW AND JUS- resolution of disputes in rural areas, curtail- TICE (SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI): (a) and ment of the jurisdiction of the High Courts by (b). There has been .:,ome increase in steel excluding subjects which deserve specialist prices in last one year on account of increase treatment by Specialist CourtlTribunals as in input costs iike coal & Power, r8ilway well as curtailing of oral arguments are being freight and excise duty. considered for implementation by the Gov- ernment. Besides, increasing the Judge strength in the High Court/Supreme Court, (c) Prices are sought to be contained the Report of the Committee of three Chief through various costs reduction measures Justices of High Courts, constituted by the taken by the integrated steel plants from time Government recently to look into the prob- to time, including modernisation, and by lem of arrears and to suggest remedial tncreasing dome~tic availability by judicious measures is likely to be received shortly. imports. This will also be examined expeditiously. . 69 Written Answers PAUSA 1, 1911 (SAKA) Written Answers 70

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(£ngISh) ing assistance to private entrepreneurs,

TouriSm Policy (iv) liberalisation of charter policy,

26. PROF. VUAYKUMARMALHOTRA: (v) introduction of air taxi services and , WiI the Minister of COMMERCE AND rent-a-car scheme, TOURISM be pleased to state: (vi) strengthening of overseas market- (a) whether Government ha\le studied ing efforts by advertising through print and the existing tourism policy and its implemen- electronic media in major tourist generating tation; markets.

(b) whether any changes are proposed (vii) strengthening of training infra-struc- in order to accelerate the pace of deveiop- ture for the development of hum!!n resources ment of tourism in the country; and to meet the man-power requirements of the sector. (e) if so. the details thereof? [ Translation] THE MINISTER FOR COMMERCE AND TOURISM (SHRI ARUN KUMAR Gold Reserves NEHRU): (a) to (c). The Government has recently completed a comprehensive review 27. SHRI HUKAMDEV NARAYAN of tourism poicy tn the tight of recommenda- YADAV: Will the Minister of FINANCE be tions of the National Committee on Tourism. pleased to state: A number ot measures have been initiated by the Government to accelerate the pace of (a) whether gold is kept in reserve in the development of tourism in the oountty. These Government treasury; and include: (b) if so, the details of the total quantity (i) a package of incentives for attracting and yafue of such gold kept there during the private investment in the tourism sedor. last three years?

(Ii) setting up of a TOUrfsm Fmance THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. Corporation for meeting the ioan require- MADHU OANOAVATE): (a) Gold reserves ~ of tourism industries, are kept with the Reserve Bank of India

(iii) iaunching of a scheme called I As- (b) The quantity and value of gold sistance for the Development of lntema- reserve with the Reserve Bank d India are tionaI T otKism· (ADIT) tor providing marttet- given below:-

Year Total Ouaritity Value at the rate of in fine grammes o. 118489 fine grammes per Rupee

1987 324,988.830.56748 As. 274,27,76,380.65 June 1988 --do- -do- June 1989 --do- --do- June 75 Written Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 Written Answers 76

[English] (d) whether Government propose to open more AIR Stations in Kerala, if so, the Development of Tourism in Kerala details thereof?

28. SHRI MULLAPPALlY RAMA- THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION CHANDRAN: Will the Minister of COM- Af..'DBROADCASTINGANDMINISTER OF MERCE AND TOURISM be pleased to state: PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. UPENDRA): (a) and (b). There is a proposal (a) the programme of Government for in the 7th Plan of All India Radio to replace development of tourism in Kerala during the existing 1OKW MW transmitter at Calicut 1990-91 ; by a new 'OKW. Subsequently, a decision was taken to replace the 10KW MW trans- (b) the proposed allocation for each of mitter by 1 100 KW MW transmitter. the projects; (c) The total requirement for the 100 (c) whether proposals have been re- KW MW trallsmitter has been projected as ceived from thn Government of Kerala for As. 311. 74lakhs. the development of specific potential tourist centre in Malabar area of Kerala; and (d) Three new Radio Stations with 2x3 _ KW FW transmi~ter, multi-purpose stuqios (d) if so, the details of proposals and the and staff quarters are proposed to be set up response of Union Government thereto? in the 7th Plan at Idukki, Cannanore and Cochin. Out of these, AIR station at eochin THE MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND has already been indugurated on 1.10.89. TOURISM (SHRI ARUN KUMAR NEHRU): The other two Radio Stations i.e. Cannanore (a) to (d). The projects/schemes received and Idukki are envisaged to be commis- from the State Government of Kerala for sioned in 1990 and 1991 respectively. further development of Tourism in Kerala State would be considered by the Central Export of Coffee Department of Tourism after the annual plan of the Department for the year 1990-91 is 30. SHRt MULLAPAlLY RAMACHAN- received. DRAN: Will the Minister of COMMERCE AND TOURISM be pleased to state: Modernisation of Radio Station, Calicut, Kerala (a) the total quantity and value of coffee exported during 1989; and 29. SHRI MULLAPPALlY RAMA~HAN DRAN: Will the Minister of INFORMATION (b) whether Gove~nment propose to AND BROADCASTING be pleased to state: raise the minimum release price of coffee and if so, the details thereof? , f (a) whether there is any proposal forthe expansion and modernisation of the Radio Station at Calicut, Kerala; THE MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND TOURISM (SHRI ARUN KUMAR NEHRU): (b) if so, the details thereof: (a) the exports of coffee during April-No- vember, 1989 are provisionally placed at (c) the total allocation forthe renovation 86,609 tonnes valued at about Rs. 265.59 work on Calicut AIR; and crores. 77 Written Answers PAUSA 1,191'1 (SAKA) Written Answers 78

(b) The minimum release price for cof- (b) Does not arise. fee was last revised in October, 1988. Any further revision would depend on the justifi- [English] cation as well as the recommendation of the Coffee Board and the Cost Accounts Branch Setting up of Currency Note Printing of the Ministry of Finance. Presses by RBI

[ Translation] 34. SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: Will the Minister of FINANCE be pleased to state: Modernisation of Doordarshan and All India Radio (a) whether Government have asked the Reserve Bank of India to undertake the 32. SHRI RAMASHRA Y PRASAD responsibility of setting up two new currency SINGH: Will the Minister of INFORMATION note printing presses;

AND BROADCASTING·ANDI- PARLIAMEN- TARY AFFAIRS be pleased to state: (b) if so, the details thereof;

(a) whether Government propose to (c) whether this is departure from the modernise Doordarshan and All India Radio existing practice of running the presses by during the Eighth Five Year Plan; and his Ministry itself; and

(b) if so, the steps proposed to be taken (d) if so, the advantages and reasons in this regard? for changing the practice?

THE MINlSTER OF INFORMATION THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF MADHU DANDAVATE): (a) to (d). Setting PrARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. up of the two new currency note printing ,)PENDRA): (a) and (b). Yes, Sir. Details in presses involves a large financial outlay of this regard can Qe know only after the 8th Rs. 844 crores. In course of exploration of . Five Year Plan Schemes of Doordarshan various alternative sources of funding Govt. / and All India Radio are approved. found that the reserve Bank of India was willing to set up the two presses. In view of Setting up of Steel Plant in Bihar this, RBI has been entrusted with the execu- tion of these projects. 33. SHRI RAMASHRAY PRASAD SINGH: Will the Minister of STEEL AND Improvement In Programmes of T.V. MINES be pleased to state: Station at Nagercoil

(a) whether Union Government pro- 35. SHRI N. DENNIS: Will the Minister pose to set up another steel plant like Bokaro of INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING in Bihar during the Eighth Five Year Plan; AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS be and pleased to state:

(b) if so, the details thereof? (a) whether Government propose to THE MINISTER OF STEEL AND MINES increase the area of coverage and make AND MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE improvements in the programmes of the T.V. (SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI): (a) No, Sir. station at Nagercoil; and 79 Written AnswelS DECEMBER 22. 1989 Written AnswtHS 80

(b) if so, the details thereof? has asked Hindu students to leave all medical and engineering institutions in Punjab... THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF MR. SPEAKER:You please give a no- PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRt P. tice. UPENDRA): (a) and (b). The low power (100 W) TV transmitter at Nagercoil Pro- MR. P. CHIDAMBARAM:I met you in vides satisfactory coverage within its normal your chamber and I sought your permission. service range and covers about 550/0 of Tnree days are holidays. Saturday. Sunday Kanyakumari district, areawise. The Sev- and Monday are holidays. This can't wait for enth Plan of Doordarshan does not include three days tin Tuesday. Here is a written any scheme for augmenting the power of the notice saying: -We inform the management transmitter at Nage~coil. This would depend committee and principals of all medical col- upon availability of resources tor the future leges through a notification that they should plans of TV expansion. not give admissions to any Hindu students in these colleges in Punjab and Chandigarh. The TV relay centre at Nagercoi! is not (Interruptions) Students from Punjab, espe- equipped with any Programme Generating cially Sikhs, are not given admissions .... Facility. It only relays programmes originating from Doordarshan Kendra. Madras, for a MR. SPEAKER: AU right, )'Ou have made limited dUiation and thos~ originating from your point. Doordarshan Kend~ Delhifortherestofthe transmission hours. It Is. however. the con- ( Interruptions) stant endeavour of Doordarshan to improve the quality of the quality 01 the programmes MR. P. CHIDAMBARAM: Three days telecast from aU the centres in its network. are holidays. (Interruptions) It cannot wait till Tuesday. Government must do something. The External Affairs Minister must be aware of this secret meeting there. And this is the ( Interruptions) resun of that. It cannot wait for three days. Three days are holidays. Saturday, Sunday [ Translationl and Monday are holidays. We want a discussion on this. JAR SPEAKER: Please take your seat. I am taking up next item of the agenda. Whal MR. SPEAKER: h is aU right. You have have you to say? done your duty.

(Eng/ish] [ TransJationl

Yes. Mr. Chidambaram. What have you to say? The senior member of your party is on his legs. SHRJ P. CHIDAMBARAM (Sivaganga): May I seek your permission, Sir? There is a SHRILALOO PRASAD (Chapra): First very serious situation. you should get it verified as to whether this letter is genius or not? MR. SPEAKER: What situation? {English]

SHRI P. CHIDAUBARAM: The KCF SHRIDtNESHSINGH(Pratapgarh):Sir. 81 Written AnsWBIS PAUSA 1. 1911 (SAKA) Writt8ll AnSW91S 82

I given a notice to you under Rule 193 for a on President's Address. discussion on the Panama issue. I would request you to very kindly admit that. [English}

MR. SPEAKER: I will look into that SHRI BHAKTA CHARAN DAS

(Kalahandi): Sirt I have given a privilege SHRI MANDHATA SINGH (Lucknow): notice against Mr. Sanjiv Malik, S.P. of 80- On a point of order. Sir. Extraneous issues langir, who made a murderous attempt on are being raised. Let us follow the agenda. Hon. Member Mr. Bal Gopal Mishra after his victory in the election. t would like to know [ Translation] whether that privilege notice has been received by you or not. (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: All right would you like to say something? Shri Panja ji. what have MR. SPEAKER: yes, you have given a you to say? . privilege motion. But this is not a matter of privilege. [English1 ( Interruptions) SHRt AJIT KUMAR PANJA (Calcutta North East): I bring to your kind notice a very [ Translation] serious situation so far as our country is concerned. We are literate in the sense as MR. SPEAKER: i ~ave written to the now defined, that is. how to read and write. Government in this regard. That is 35 per cent. On the 2nd December, the Prime Minister took oath and thereafter ( Inteffuptions) the Cabinet Ministers on the 5th of Decem- ber. On the 6th December, the portfolios MR. SPEAKER: This means that you do were distributed. Where is our Education not intend to give notices. You want to raise Minister? these issue just now.

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of ( Interruptions) order. [ Translation] { Translation] SHRI HARISH RAWAT (Almora): I have SHRI RAMJlLAl SUMAN (Firozabad): given a notice. Mr. S~aker Sir, I requested you yesterday and gave a noti~e also under Rule 197to the (English] effect that ten~io~ has been buitt up in the society throught tl'e country. The Minister PROF. SAIFUDDIN. SOZ: I have also may be aspec~ to rt"ake a statement on the given three notices. issue of reservat '0::. The people, whothought that they were b· )Hl to rule the country, are ( Inteffuptions) deliberately spoil'1g the law and order situation in the entire .-:cumry. I Translation]

MR. SPEAKER: You may while speak- SHRIJ.P. AGARWAL (Chandni Chowk): ing raise there points on the Motion of thanks Mr. Speaker, Sir, at the time of election, 83 Written Answers DECEMBER 22, 1989 Written Answers 84

Janta Oaf and Bhartiya Janata Party, which Bhagalpur riots and the people responsible is supporting the Government, had prom- for those riots. I want a~ inquiry into those ised to proude 'Assembly' for Delhi. I would riots. I want the House to discuss it as priority like to know from the Government as to when numberone before the Panama issue will be Assembly will be provided for the State of discussed. Delhi and when Government's decision will be announced in this regard. (Interruptions) [ Translation]

[English] You give your observation.

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: Sir, Zero Hour MR. SPEAKER: Kindly do not compel Will remain with us by choice. (Interruption) me. You may please take your seat. I may tell you .... [ Translation] PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: I will take MR. SPEAKER: There is no Zero Hour, may seat. You give your observation as to of course, you may raise burning issues. when this matter will be taken up for discussion. ( Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Since you have given a [English] notices. if will be examined.

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: I have given ( Interruptions) three noti.ces. One is adjournment motion ... ( Interruptions) [English]

[ Translation] PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOl: You are above the Business Advisory Committee. You are MR. SPEAKER: If you have given a the Chairman of the Business Advisory write, I will certainly consider it. Committee. So, this should be the first issue to be discussed. (Interruptions) [English] MR. SPEAKER: You should assist me PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: I have given in conducting the House in an orderly man- notices under Rule 193 also. I want the ner. I have permitted Mr. Sal Gopal Mishra to Houseto discuss the Bhagalpur riots and the speak. causes of those riots because Bhagalpur ( Interruptions) riots have tarnished the secular image of India. MR. SPEAKER: I do not deny anybody. I will allow everybody. [ Translation] ( Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER; You may raise these [ Translation] points during the discussion on Motion of thanks on President's Address. SHRI TASLIMUDIN (Purnia): Mr. Speaker, Sir Bhagalpur issue is being raised PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: Three-four here stnce yesterday. You. are not bothering days back some decomposed bodies and 12 about it and the Government also in silent. skulls were recovered from a well in Kindly take up Bhagalpur issue for discus- Bhagalpur. sion. Dead bodies have been recovered in Bhagalpur and the Congress (I) Govern- [English] ment is power in that state ... (lnterruptions) .....

Bhagalpur riots have tarnished the MR. SPEAKER: I have not ~iven per- secular image of India. So, before discuss- mission to you. Shri Bal Gopal Mishra. ing the Panama issue for whtch I have also given the notice, we must discuss about the ( Interruptions) 85 Written Answers P AUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Written Answers 86

[English] [English]

SHRI BAL GOPAL MISHRA (Botangir): MR. SPEAKER: Next item, Papers to Sir, the train services in the country are in a be laid on the Table. total mess. No train runs on time. I request the Government to take a note of it and SHRJ NIRMAL KANTI CHATIERJEE rectify the position. Further, the two trains (Dumdum): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a point from Delhi to Orissa, Kalinga Express and of order in regard to the papers to be laid on the Neelachal Express are badly timed and the Table. cause a lot of inconvenience to the passengers. Their timings need to be In the List of Business, certain papers changed ... (Interruptions) are shown to be laid by Prof Madhu Dan- davate at serial NO.3. Kindly see sub-item [ Translation] 3(i) which refers to 'Hie revised rate of exchange for conversion of Pound Sterling into MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Soz, I will consider Indian currency or vice-versa.' it. What I submit is that this is too serious [English] a matter. This refers to depreciation of our currency, or devaluation of our currency. I, SHRI M.R. JANARTHANAN therefore, request that the hon. Finance (Tirunelveli): Sir, I have given a notice under Minister instead of laying this paper on the Rule 193. The Tamil Nadu Chief Minister has Table of the House makes a separate state- told the press that the Sri Lankan problem is ment in the House and then a discussion now in the Centre's court; Shri V.P. Singh ~ollows. (Interruptions) has to decide and that his job is over. I want to know what is the stand of the present THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. Government on the IPKF de-induction. In- MADHU DANDAVATE): Sir, lam happythqt dian bureaucrats have been attacked. I want he has raised this question, but there is a discussion. (Interruptions) some misunderstanding. There is no question of devaluation. I would like the hon. SHRI RANGARAJAN KUMARAMAN- Member to realise that only for the purpose GLAM (Salem): I have given a calling atten- of custom valuation, the exchange rate for tion notice. The Indian Express workers have conversion of Pound Sterling into the Indian been on strike for so many days. The Bacha- currency is being specified on the basis of wat Commission award needs to be imple- RBI rates. This is done purely as a matter of mented immediately. First of all, the Bacha- administrative convenience. This does not wat Commission has hardly given anything involve any change in the existing currency and even that is n01 implemented. Let us and, therefore, no fresh discussion is called have a discussion. for. Of course, in spite of that if the hon. Member wants, he can raise it in the general MR. SPEAKER: I will consider it. discussion and I will give him the same reply.

[ Trans/ation] MR. SPEAKER: No further discussion is required. Now, Papers to be Laid on the Now, the next item. No more discussion Table. please. I am quite liberal, you should not do so. 87 Papers Laid DECEMBER 22. 1989 PIIp8IS Laid 88

12.13 hr•• Gazette of India dated thlt 16th August. 1989 together [English] with an explanaby memorandum seeking to amend PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE Notification No. 1 nl86-Cen- tral Excises dated the 1 st Notification under Coinage Act, Central March, 1986 so as to allow to Exctses and Salt Act, CUstoms Act, and the users full Modvat credit of Reports under Banldng Companies duty paid on paper board fail- (Acquisition and Transfer of Undertak- ing under sub-heading ing) Acts, 1970 4811.30 of the Schedule to the Central Excise T ariH Ad, THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. 1985. MADHU DANDAVATE): f beg to lay on the TabIe:- (iii) G.S.R. 751 (E) published in Gazette of India dated the (1) A copy of the Coinage (Standard 16th August. 1989 together Weight and Remedy of of Com- with an explanatory memo- memorative Coins of One Rupee randum seeking to prescribe containing Copper 75 per cent and a concessionat rate of excise Nicket 25 per cent coined on the duty of ten per cent ad theme "FOOD AND ENVIRON- valorem on flax fabrics faDing MENT" on the'occasion of the cele- under heading No. 53.05 of bration of Ninth World Food Day on the Schedule to the Centrat the 16thOctober, 1989) Rules, 1989 Excise Tariff Ad, 1986. (Hindi and English versions) published in Notification No. S. O. (iv) G.S.R. 752(E) published in 791 (E) in Gazette of India dated Gazette of India dated the the 5th October. 1989 under sub- 16th August, 1989 together sections (3) of section 21 of the with an explanatory memo- Coinage Act, 1906. [Placed in randum extending the valid- Library. See No. LT -81891 ity of NotifICation No. 1931 87~traJ Excises, dated (2) A copy e~h of the following Notifi- the 17th August. 1987 upto cations (Hindi and English versions) 31 st March, 1992. under sub-section (2) of section 38 of the Central Excises and Salt Ad. (v) G.S.R. 75O(E) ptbIished in 1944:- Gazette of India dated the 16th August 1989 together (i) G.S.R. 747(E) published in with an explanatory memo- Gazette of India dated the randum exempting excise 11 th August, 1989 together duty on potassium amidecap- with an explanatory memo- lively used in manufacture of randum seeking to amend heavy water. Notification No. 133J86-Cen- traJ Excises dated the 1st (vi) G.S.R 76O(E) ptbIished in March, 1986 so as to extend Gazette of India dated the concessional rate of excise 16th August, 1989 together duty to modified poIyphen~ with an explanatory memQ- yk¥le oxide. randum exemptilg excise duly on potassium metal (Ii) G.S.R 750(E) pOOIished in pIOdalCed in heavy..... pIaN 89 Papers Laid PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) Papers Laid 90

at Baroda and used in manu- before the Assistant Collec- facture of potassium amide tor of Central Excise having by heavy water plants at jurisdiction over newspaper Baroda, Tuticorin, Talchar, establishment for availing the Thai and Hazira. exemption, is now required to be produced before the (vii) G.S.R. 756(E) published in Assbtant Collector of Central Gazette of India dated the Excise having jurisdiction 16th August, 1989 together over the newsprint manufac- with an explanatory memo- turing unit. randum making certain amendments to Notification (x) G.S.R. 810(E) pubHshed in No. 263/87 -CE, dated the Gazette of India dated the 1st 10th December, 1987 so as September, 1989 together to make certain changes in with an explanatory memo- the procedure for claiming the randum extending the valid- exemption. ity of Nqtification No. 207187- CE dated the 9th September. (viii) G.S.R. 801 (E) published in 1987 upto 30th September, Gazetterof India dated the 1 st 1990. September, 1989 together with an explanatory memo- (xi) G.S.R. 811 (E) published i~ randum making certain Gazette of India dated the 1st amendments to Notification September, 1989 together Nos. 140/83-CE, dated the with an explanatory memo- 5th May, 1983, 175/86-CE, randum making certain dated 1 st March, 1986 and amendment to Notification 75/87 -CE, dated the 1 st No. 23/S9-CE, dated the 1st March, 1987 so as to provide March, 1989 so as to provide for inter alia the exclusion of the concessional rate of ex- value of clearance of goods cise duty to cement manu- affixed with the brand/trade factured by factories using n

Gazette of India dated the (3) A copy each of the following Notifi- 28th August, 1989 together cations (Hindi and English versions) with an explanatory memo- under section 159 of the Customs randum seeking to provide Act, 1962:- that in accordance with a generaJ practice that was (i) S.C. 726(E) published in prevalent at the relevant time, Gazette of India dated the the excise duty on woven 13th September, 1989 to- sacks of polymers of ethlene gether with an explanatory or proplylene or, as the case memorandum regarding the may be, a combination revised rate of exchange for thereof, manufactured on conversion of Pound Sterling looms other than circular into India Currency or vice- looms and falling under head- versa. ing No. 46.01 or 63.01 of the Schedule to the Central Ex- (ii) G.S.R. 746(E) published in cise Tariff Act, 1985 shall not Gazette of India dated the be required to be paid during 11th August, 1989 toget"er the period from 20th Novem- with an explanatory memo- ber. 1986 tp 6th January, randum making certain 1987. amendments to Notification No. 48/89-Customs, dated (xiv) G.S.R. 850(E} published in the 1st March, 1989 so as to Gazette of India dated the extent concessional rate of 21 st September, 1989 to- basic customs duty of 30 per gether with an explanatory cent ad valorem to modified memorandum seeking to potyphenylene oxide. provide that in accordance with a general practice that (iii) G.S.R. 753(E) published in was prevalent at the relevant Gazette of India dated the time, the basic excise duty 16th August, 1989 together and the special excise duty with an explanatory memo~ on A.D.V. tyres of sizes 4" x randum making certain 8" and 3.5" x 8", measured in amendments to Notification terms of cross-sectional w:dth No. 297/87-Cs., dated the x rim diameter and falling 17th August, 1987 authoris- under sub-heading No. ing Director in the Office of 4011.10 of the Scheduled to Development Commissioner the Central Excise Tariff Act, (55 I) to attest the list of 1985, shalf not be required to components to be imported be paid (luring the period from by small scale units and also 1st March, 1988 to 28ttl to extend the validity of the February, 1989. notification upto 31st March, 1992.

(xv) The Central Excise (Eighth (iv) G.S.R. 758 (E) published in Amendment) Rules, 1ge9 Gazette of India dated the published in Notification No. 16th Augl:Jst, 1989 together G.S.R. 832(E) in Gazettes of with an explanatory memo- India dated the 15th Septem- randum making certain ber, 1989. [Placed in Ubrary. amendments to Notification See No. LT -91891 No. 40/80-Cus. dated the 1 st 93 Papers Laid PAUSA 1.1989 (SAKA) Papers Laid 94

March, 1989 so as to include published in Gazette of India two more chemicals namely, dated the 23rd August, 1989 L. Lysine Mono Hydrochlo- together with an explanatory ride and Methionine hydroxy memorandum seeking to analog in the said notifica- prescribe 35 per cent basic tion. customs duty. nil additional duty and 5 per-cent auxiliary (v) G.S.R. 754 (E) published in duty on Lyophilizers imported Gazette of India dated the for manufacture of antibiotics 16th August, 1989 together subject to certain conditions. with an explanatory memorandum making certain (ix) G.S.R. 781 (E) published in amendments to Notification Gazette of india dated the No, 224/85-Cus., dated the 25th August, 1989 together 9th July, 1985 so as to with- with an explanatory memo- draw customs duty conces- randum making certain sion available for certain items arT)·:'ndments to Notification covered by the said notifica- No. 247/84-Cus., dated the tion. 27th September, 1984 so as to increase with effect from (vi) G.S.R. 672 (E) and 673 (E) 1 st October, 1989 the value published in Gazette of India of duty free limitforthe import dated the 21 st August, 1989 of components for fishing together with an explanatory trawlers from 20 per cent to memorandum seeking to 30 per cent of trawlers land provide concessional rate of also to extend the validity of basic cu'stoms duty of 55 per the Notification upto 30th cent ad valorem and auxiliary September, 1992. duty of 5 per cent ad valorem on dead burnt magnestite of (x) G.S.R. 800 (E) published in specified grades. Gazette of India dated the 1 st September, 1989 together (vii) G.S.R. 777 (E) published in with an explanatory memo- Gazette of India dated the randum making certain 23rd August, 1989 together amendments to Notification with an explanatory memo- No. 64/70 Cus, dated the 6th randum making certain March, 1979 seeking to de- amendments to Notification lete Dicyanadiamide and No. 148/88-Cus., dated the Guanidine Nitrate from the 27th April, 1988 seeking to iis1 of goods eligible for extend the benefit of 35 per concessional rate of basic cent basic duty plus nil addi- customs duty. tional duty on imported out- board motors for fitment to (xi) G.S.R. 802 (E) published in fishing boats presently avail- Gazette of India dated the 1 st able to State Fisheries Cor- September, 1989 together poration or any Fisheries with an explanatory memo- Cooperative Federation to randum making certain imports by all persons sub- amendments to Notification ject to certain conditions. No. 47/89-Cus., dated the 1st March, 1989 so as to increase (viii) GSR 778 (E) and n9 (E) the basic customs duty on 95 Papers Laid DECEMBER 22, 1989 Papers Laid 96

Low density polyethylene (4) A copy each of the followin.g based sheathing compound Reports (Hindi and English or insulation compound from versions) under sub-section Rs. 3000/-per tonne to 50 per (8) of section fo 'of the Bank- cent ad valorem. ing Companies (Acquisition and Transfer of Undertakings) (xii) G.S.R. 803 (E) published in Act, 1970:- Gazette of India dated the 1 st September, 1989 together with an explanatory memo- (i) Repbrt on the working and randum seeking to exempt activities of the Bank of Bar- newsprint for printing of oda for the period from 1 st newspapers, books and peri- January, 1988 to 31 st March, odicals when imported into 1989 along wi~h Accounts and India from the whole of addi- Auditor's report thereon. tional duty of customs (CVD). [Placed in Library. See No. LT-5/89] (xiii) G.S.R. 840(E) published in Gazette of India dated the (ii) Report on the working 18th September, 1989 to- and activities of the Allahabad gether with an explanatory Bank for the period from 1 st memorandum making certain January, 1988t031stMarch, amendments to Notification 1989 along with Accounts and No. 47/89-Cus., dated the 1 st Auditor's Report thereon. March, 1989 so as to change [Placed in Library. See No. the description of 'polysty- L T-6/89] • rene' to 'Polystyrene and copolymers to styrene'. (iii) Report on the working and activities of the UCO (xiv) G.S.R. 841 (E) published in Bank for the period from !st Gazette of India dated the January, 1988 to 31 st March, 18th September 1989 to- 1989 along with Accounts and gether with an explanatory Auditor's Report thereon. memorandum seeking to [Placed in Library. See No. exempt concentrated disper- L T-7/89] sions of colouring matter in polypropylene, (Polypro- (5) A copy of the Results (Hindi pylene Muster Batch), from and English versions) of the basic customs duty in excess Nineteenth Valuation of the of 70 per cent ad valorem Life Insurance Corporation of subject to certain conditions. India as on 31 st March, 1989. [Placed in Library. See No. (xv) S.O. 764 (E) published in LT-~ 1/89] Gazette of India dated the '. 27th September, 1989 to- Notification under Export (Quality con- gether with an explanatory trol and Inspection) Act, 1963, Tobacco memorC!ndum regarding re- Board Act 1975, Spice Board Act, 1986, vised rates of exchange for and Review on and Annual Report of . conversion of certain foreign Minerals and Metals Trading Corporation currencies into Indian cur- of India, Ltd., New Deihl for 198&-8.9 .', rency or,.vice-versa. [Placed in Library. See No. LT-1 0/89] THE MINISTER OF COMM~6E AND 97 Papers Laid P AUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Papers Laid 98

TOURISM (SHRI ARUN KUMAR NEHRU): (vii) S.O. 1989 published in Ga- I beg to lay on the Table:- zette of India dated the 19th August, 1989 making certain (1) A copy each of the foHowing amendments to the Export of Notifications (Hindi and Eng- Electric Motors and Genera- lish versions) under sub-sections (Quality Control and tion (3) of section 17 of the Inspection) Rules, 1980. Export (Quality Control and Inspection) Act, 1963:- (viii) The Export of Frozen Fish and Fishery products (Qual- (i) The Export of Cardamon ity Control and Inspection) (Inspection) Rules, 1989 Amendment Rules, 1989 Published in Notification No. published in Notification No. S.D. 1981 in Gazette of India S.D. 2491 in Gazette of India dated the 22nd July, 1989. dated the 7th October, 1989.

(ii) The Export of Rubber Hoses (ix) The Export of Canned Fish (Quality Control and Inspec- and Fishery Products (Qual- tion) Rules, 1989 published ity Control and Inspection) in Notification No. SO 1685 in Amendment Rules, 1989 Gazette of India dated the published in Notification No. 22nd July, 1989. S.D. 2492 in Gazette of India dated the 21 st October, 1989. (iii) The Export of Crockeryware (Quality Control and Inspec- (x) The Export Inspection Coun- tion) Rules, 1989 published cil Employees (Classification, in Notification No. S.D. 1685 Control and Appeal) Amend- in Gazette of India dated the ment Rules, 1989 published 22nd July, 1989. in Notification No. S.O. 2631 in Gazette of India dated the (iv) S.D. 1895 published in Ga- 21 st October, 1989. • zette of India dated the 19th August, 1989 making certain (xi) The Export Inspection amendments to the Export of Agency Employees (Classifi- Dry Batteries (Quality Con- cation, Control and Appeal) trol and Inspection) Rules, Amendment Rules, 1989 1978. published in Notification No. S.D. 2632 in Gazette of India (v) S.O. 1896 published in Ga- dated the 21 st October, 1989. zette of India dated the 19th [Placed in Library. See No. August, 1989 making certain L T-12/89] amendments to the rules (2) A copy of the Tobacco Board specified in the Annexure (Recruitment) Regulations, annexed to the notification. 1989 (Hindi and English versions) Published in Notifica- tion No. 8(2).88-EP (Agri VI) (vi) S.O. 1897 published in Ga- in Gazette of India dated the zette of India dated the 19th 22nd September, 1989 un- August, 1989 making certain der sub-section (5) of section amendments to the rules 33 of the Tobacco Board Act, specified in the Annexure 1975. [Placed in Library. Srcf;: annexed to the. notification. No. L T-13/89] 99 Papers Laid DECEMBER 22,1989 Business of the House 100

(3) A copy of the Spices Board Notification No. S.O. 634(E) (Regulation of Exporters) in Gazette of India dated the Regulations, 1989 (Hindi and 11th August, 1989. English versions) published in Notification No. F. No. Adml (ii) The Solvent-Extracted Oil, Reg.lO 1/89 in Gazette of India De-oiled Meal and Edible dated the 24th October, 1989 Flour (Control) Amendment under section 40 of the Spices Order, . 1989 published in Board Act. 1986. [Placed in Notification No. G.S. R. 767 Library. See No. LT -14/89] (E) in Gazette of India dated the 18th August, 1989. (4) A copy of the following papers (Hindi and English ver- (iii) The Sugar (Price Determina- sions) under sub-section (1) tion for 1989-90 production) of section 619A of the Com- Amendment Order, 1989 panies Act, 1956:- published in Notification No. G.S.R. 813 in Gazette of India (i) Review by the Government dated the 4th November, on the working of the Miner- 1989. als and Metals Trading Cor- poration of India Limited, New (iv) The Sugar (Price Determina- Delhi, f6r the year 1988-89. tion for 1989-90 production Order, 1989 published in (ii) Annual Report of the Miner- Notification No. G,S.R. 90p als and Metals Trading Cor- (E) in Gazette of India dated poration of India Limited, New the 17th October, 1989. Delhi, for the year 1988-89 [Placed in Library. See No. along Ylith Audited Accounts LT-16/89] and com ments of the Comp- troller and Auditor General (2) A copy of the Food Corpora- thereon. [Placed in Library. tions (Amendment) Regula- See No. LT-15/89J tions 1989 (Hindi and English versions) published in Notifi- Notifications under Essential Com- cation No. 4(4)/89-8.C. in modities Act, 1955 and under Food Gazette of India dated the 6th Corporation Act, 1964 October, 1989 under sub- section (5) of section 45 of THE MINISTER OF FOOD AND CIVIL the Food Corporations Act. SUPPLIES (SHRI NATHU RAM MIRDHA): I 1964. [Placed in Library. See beg to lay on the Table:- No. LT-17/89]

(1) A copy each of the following Notifications (Hindi and Eng- 12.15 hrs. lish versions) under sub-section (6) of section 3 of the BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE Essential Commodities Act, 1955:- [English]

(i) The Pulses, Edible Oilseeds THE MINISTER OF INFORMATiON and Edible Oils (Storat;a AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF Control) Fourth Amendment PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. Order, 1989 published in UPENDRA): Withy!)urpermission, Sir' rise 101 Matters under PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Rule377 102 to announce that Gov~mment Business in places and adequate compensation so that this House during the week commencing, they are able to construct their dwelling units Tuesday, the 26th December, 1989 will in the new areas. consist of:- (II) Need for measures for ovwal (1) Discussion on the Motion of Thanks development of haUy reg.... on the President's Address. of Uttar Pradesh.

(2) Consideration of ·any item of Gov- [ Translation] ernment Business carried over from today's Order Paper. SHRIHARISHRAWAT{Almora):AIarge number of people in hilly regions of Uttar Pradesh have been demanding' a separate 12.16 hr•. State for themselves. This demand is not based on economic consideration but the MATIERS UNDER RULE 377 same is being raised because of inade- quated representation of this region in U.P. [English] Assembly and faulty implementation of development works. The discontentment (I) Need to ensure suitable rehabili- among the people have been growing gradu- tation by Railways of persons ally due to the inappropriate adion taken by Ifving on either side of Railway the Central and State Government in these Lines Srlperumbudur In Tamil two matters. The growing discontent in this Nadu. border area is not in national interest in any way. A large number of youths are ass0ci- SHRIMATI MARAGATHAM CHAN- ated with this demand of a separate state DRASEKHAR (Sriperumbudur): Sir, in my since they hope that they will get employ- constituency, Sriperumbudur, Tamil Nadu, ment in the newly formed ~tate. With the thousands of famiiies belonging to poorer passage of time, complexes-are growing in and weaker sections as also landless la- youths which and the result is that the posi- bourers have been dwelling on either side of tions is going bad to worse many political the railway lines near Ponneri Gummidi- parties of this areas, including certain na- poondu, Tiruvellore and Tiruttani railway tional parties. have been supporting this stations as also in other areas. These people demand. Under these circumstances, the have spent all their life savings in construct- Central Government has two options before ing their small kutcha dwelling units, many of it. Firstly-th~reation of new state for which them having tiled roofs. They have been all the plan and non-ptan expenditure witl be living there for the last several years. Most of borne by the Central Government and the them are daily wage earners and small arti- people of this region would be given a guar- sans. antee to the effect that they would continue to get present facilities in the Government Sir, it is understood that the Railway services in Uttar Pradesh. Secondly-nec- authorities are considering to uproot the essary provisions should be made for the dwelling units of these thousands of families formation of a Hill Development Council in from those areas, thus depriving them of order to ensure the development of this their shelter. The people are very much region. The councifshould be given admin- agitated over this. istrative powers to formulate and implement plans for this region. Smaller Assembly It is. therefore, requested that the Rail- constituencies on the pattern of Himachal way authorities may not take such a drastic Pradesh may also be created in U.P. and and hasty action. They should consider amendment in the constitution,' necessary. providing them suitable ..amative dweHing maybe made. 103 Matters under DECEMBER 22, 1989 Rule377 104

(III) Need for speedy Implementa- ration. Till now the mill has not begun pro- tion of the National capital · duction. Many workers are starving as their Region Plan. wages have not been paid for a long time. This is a modem mill and is fully energised . [English] In order to restore the livelihood to 1400 workers and make payment of areas of arears SHRIJ.P. AGARWAL (Chandni Chowk): to them, the Central Government shoultj National Capital Region Plan was launched takeover this Mill as soon as possible. by the previous Government with a view to, inter alia, reducing population pressure on (v) Need for early completion of Delhi. The main idea behind this Scheme the pending railway projects was that by creating satellite towns around In North Bihar. Delhi, the population pressure on Delhi will ease. Accordingly, a lot of work was done. THE HUKUMDEO NARAYAN YADAV The development process should be contin- (Sitamarhi): Mr. Speaker Sir, work related to ued and necessary infrastructure be cre- the Samastipur-Darbhanga broad-gauge ated.· Townships around Delhi should be railway line, construction of Sakri-Hasanpur developed and RaillRoad links provided at a railway line, renovation of the 'Sitamarhi faster rate. railway station, creation of a new railway division in Darbhanga, construction of a new Now that the Sarkaria Commission has railway line on the Muzaffarpur-Sitamarhi, given its report on status of Delhi and it is Sitamarhi-Sonparsa and Sursanthja Nagar expected that this Capital town is going to sections and construction of an overbridge have a full-fledged State Assembly, the on the road near Sitamarhi and Nupri Sta- development plan of the NCR should also be tions has been pending for many years. The taken up at a faster speed. In any case the earlier Railway Ministers had given assur- growth of NCR. should be assured. unless ances that these projects would be com- this is done at a very fast speed, the prob- pleted. The project related to the conversion lems of Delhi will multiply day by day. into broad-gauge of the Samastipur- Oarbhanga railway line was even inaugu- I request the Government that all these rated. We have gone to jail number of times factors be given due consideration for speedy in connection with this movement. Special implementation of the NCR plan. attention needs to be given for the development of backward areas of that region. The (iv) Need to take over the Katihar Railways should extend their full co-opera- Jute Mill in Bihar. tion ~n the development of North Bihar.

[ Trans/ation] (vi) Need for resolving the drink- Ing water problem in UjJaln, SHAI YUVRAJ (Katihar): Mr Speaker Madhya Pradesh Sir, I raise the following matter under Rule 377. ·SHRI SATYA NARAYAN JATIYA (U jjain): Mr. Speaker Sir, IIDrinking water is "In the last two years there has not been not available in the country easily. It is very any production in the katihar Jute Mill for difficult to get drinking water in problem want of raw material although the mill was villages. There is acute drinking water prob- operational. This Mill was taken over by the lem in Ujjain district of Madhya Pradesh. The Bihar State Financial Corporation under Narmada-Shipra-Chambal Link project is the Section 29-C and was being managed by the permanent solution to this drinking water Bihar State Industrial Development Corpo- problem. The Singhastha festival is cele-

*Translation of the matter originally delivered in Sanskrit. 105 Matters under PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) Rule377 106

brated in Ujjain after every 12 years. For this I would request the Central government purpose also adequate flow of water is re- to take necessary steps and provide ade- quired in river Shipra. So I request the Cen- quate assistance for the early completion of tral Government to give top priority for set- the T eesta Barrage project. ting up a body for resolving drinking water problem in Ujjain district and direct the (viii) Need to revamp the Sindrl Madhya Pradesh Government to implement Fertilizer Plant in Bihar the Narmada-Shipra Link project at the earliest. SHRI A.K. ROY (Dhanbad): The Sindri unit of Fertilizer Corporation of India is the (vII) Need to provide Control As- first public sector enterprise in the country, sistance for early completion established in 1951 and inaugurated by the of the Teesta Barrage Project then Prime Minister, Shri Jawaharlal Lal Nehru as the new temple of India. It is now [English] facing closure. The industrial complex of Sindri unit consists of a fertilizer plant, power SHRI AMAR ROYPRADHAN (Coach plant. a research-cum-design institute, train- Behar): The river T eesta is dependable ing centre and a good township with hospital source of water for agricultural development and enough land connected with railway of the backward districts namely, Cooch- lines, Le. all the rare infrastructure required Behar, Jalpaiguri. Darjeeling, West Dinajpur for development. But all these are lying and Maida in West Bengal. neglected for the last decade. The original coalbased plant has been sold and im- The T eesta Barrage project envisages properly substituted by a heavy oil-based irrigation to an area of 7.5 lakh acres during plant, whose 1ife is also shortly to end with all Kharif season and 4 lakh acres during Rabi. good production performance. The propos- If Geokhali Dam in upper catchment is als to instal 900-tonne per day naphtha- completed, another 3 lakh acres of land based fertilizer plant, one nlethanol would be irrigated. plant expansion and renovation of the power plant have been kept in cold stor- When the project would be completed, age; even the coke evens have remained 62 lakh metric tons more foodgrains will be half-built. An atmosphere of despair prevails produced in the five districts of North Bengal. in the area, spelling omen for the future of Realising the special importance of this public sector in the country. Revamping the Project, the working group of the Planning Sindri industrial complex with a new coal- Commission had recommended an alloca- based fertilizer plant and a power plant is tion of Rs. 221 crores in the 7th Plan. absolutely called for, to save this industrial complex from ruin. It is reported that Bangladesh is going ahead with their Teesta Irrigation Project with international aid. But due to financial constraint, the progress of work on our Teesta [English] Project is very slow. Government of West Bengal with their financial limitations, have spent so far more than Rs. 280 crores and is THE MINISTER ,OF INFORMATION spending about 75 per cent money for the AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF project out of their total irrigation budget. On PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. the other hand, the special assistance so far UPENDRA): Mr. Speaker, Sir: I would liketo from the Central Government amounts to make a submission to you and, through you, As. 5 crores only. Of course, the Central to the House about the Constitution (Amend- Government had given Rs. 15 crores as loan ment) Bill which my colleage Mr. Ram Vilas for this project. Paswan would move for consideration. 107 Matters under Rule 377 DECEMBER 22, 1989 Canst (62nd Amdt.) Bill 108

[Sh. P. Upendra] All such things are done during the lunch break. This is a very important Bin, on which depends the com ing elections also; and I MR. SPEAKER: All right, we will have had requested the hone leader of the Oppo- the lunch hour. I hope there is no objection to sition to help us in getting this Bin passed that. The House will sit late. today, so that this Bill may be sent to the State Assemblies, because half the State [English] Assemblies have to ratify it before 26th January and President's consent has to be SHRI P. UPENDRA: "the hone Mem- obtained before that, .so that in the next bers want to have their Lunch Hour. in that Assembly elections there would be no diffi- case, we will have to sit late after 6 P.M. to culty. pass the Constituent (~ixty-Second Amend- ment) Bill. Therefore, I would submit to you that today, even if we have to sit late, let us get this Bill passed; and I would also like to request the hone Members, through you, 12.30 hrs. kindly to corporate, so that we can dispense with the lunch hour and continue this Bill and CONSTITUTION (SIXTY-SECOND take the voting around 3 p.m.-so that be- AMENDMEN) BILL, 1989 fore 3.30 p.m. when the Pri~ate Members' ausiness may be taken up, we can have the [English] Bill passed. (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: I have to inform the SHRI BRAHMDUTT (Tehri Garhwal): .1\ House that the President has recommended lot of people want to speak on n. (Interrup- the consideration of the Constitution (Sixty- tions) second Amendment) Bill, 1989 under article 117 (3) of the Constitution of India. MR. SPEAKER: Brahmduttji you said that a lot of people want to speak on it. He Now Shri Ram Vilas Paswan can move has suggested, therefore, that Lunch may his Bill for consjderation. be dispensed with. [ Trans/ation] [English] THE MINISTER OF LABOUR AND AN. HON. MEMBER: If it can be taken WELFARE (SHRI RAM VILAS PASWA~: up on Tuesday, there will be no harm. Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move:·-

[ Translation] "That the Bill further to amend the Constitution of India, as passed by Rajya Sabha, be taken into considera- SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: We have tion." just began and such requests are being made every day. Is this the way to carry on Mr. Speaker Sir, as you are aware, this the business of the House? We will support Bill was passed by the Rajya Sabha yester- you if you announce that there will not be any day. This is a very important Bill. This Bill lunch-hour in future. But dispensing with the deals with that section of society have been lunch-hour now and then, upsets our sched- suppressed and victimised for centuries from ule because we often forgo our lunch-break the social, economic and educational point and use that time to attend tt) oth&r urgent of view. I have briefly explained the Objects work. I use this time for offering 'namaz' also. and Reasons of this Bill. *Moved with the recomendation of the President 109 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) Const. (62ndAmdt.) Bill 110

Section 334 of the Constitution says lapse on that date, it become very necessary that in the lok Sabha and the Stata Assem- to bring forward this Bill before that date. blies the provision related· to reservation of That is why without incorporating allied seats for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled matters, we, as a first 'step in this direction, Tribes and nomination of representatives of preferred to incorporate the subject of politi- the Anglo-Indian community shall remain cal reservation in this Bill. I am pained to not~ effective for a period of 40 years People that an agitation is being launched all over belonging to Scheduled Castes and Sched- the country against reservation which is uled Tribes have made some progress in the definitely very unfortunate for the oountry. last 40 years but the reasons for which This is the question of reservation and not of reservation was provided to'these people by any caste or party. Reservation in the Con- the Constitutent Assembly, are vaJid even stitution has been provided on the basis of today. Reservation for Scheduled Castes national consenues. It has been clearly and Scheduled Tribes and nomination of provided in the ConstitutiOn that reservation represe~tatives from the Anglo-Indian com- will continue for that section of the society munity is proposed to be extended for a who are backward from social and educa- further period of 10 years. This Bill has been tional point of view. So far as the question of moved to fulfil the above objectives. providing reservation in Government jobs is concerned, there ;s no such time limit in Mr. Speaker Sir, Section 330 of the articles 15 (4) and 16(4) of the constitution. Constitution relates to provision of reserva- But so far as the provision of political reser- tion for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled vation in the legislatures is concerned, it is Tribes in Lok Sabha. extended after every 10 years. This practice is in vogue for the last 40 years. Our Govern- Article 331 of the Constitution provides ment has extended this facility for the next 10 for representation of the Anglo-fndian Com- years. It has nothing to do with the govern- munity in the Lok Sabha. There is provision ment service as is being made out. there is for reservation of seats in the State Assem- no time limit for reservation in Government blies for the Scheduled Castes and the service. I know that all hon. Members, irre- Scheduled Tribes in article 332. Article 331 spective of their party affiliations, feel con- has a special provision tor the reservation of cerned about the weaker sections and people seats for the representatives of the Anglo- belonging to Scheduled Castes and Sched- India Community in the State Assemblies. uled Tribes. Earlier also I have been a member of this House and was sitting in the It is a matter of happiness that that first opposition. Whenever all these points used Resolution that our Government brought to be raised, it has always been our earnest forward is to give justice to the people who endeavour to adopt humanitarians approach belong to the weakest section of the society. towards them irrespective of party politics, It is not the last but a first step to start with. religious and communal feelings. That is why I feel that when my hon. colleagues will speak, the.y will definitely draw People belonging to all castes and all the attention of the Government iowards the religions live in our country. All of them problems relating to the atrocities being should be provided with an opportunity make committed on the Scheduled Castes, the progress in life. If a member in the family fairs Scheduled Tribes and the weaker sections sick, we make arrangements for the ailing of the society. They will ask as to why other member. When the doctor prescribes medi- things were not incorporated in the Bill. Why cines and asks to arrange fruits for the pa- a Constitutional amendment consisting of tient, we arrange all these things affecting two lines has been brcught torward? But I cuts in ration expenditure. Similarly we have am helpless because of shortag~ of time. to do something for those who have reo Since reservation provisions are valid upto mained backward for the last thousands of 26th January only and these provisions will years, who thoL!gh not backward, have been _- 111 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill DECEMBER 22, 1989 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 112

[Sh. Ram Vilas Paswan] weaker sections should be taken up in lhis direction. I was delighted to hear the points forced to remain backward, who have been made by the hon. Prime Minister in his speech confined to darkness from all around, whose yesterday. It appeared to me that it is for the right to speech, right to learning and right to first time when the Prime Minister, the head property has been snatched away. They are of the state or the country truly thinks about still the oppressed lot in the society. Some affecting changes and want us to follow suit. special provisions have been made for them I know that while expression their views on after independence. But I am of the view that this Bill, some of our hon. Coleagues would these provisions are-not adequate. It is not like to know as to why this thing has not been possible that the society will achieve all incorporated in the Bill. In this connection, I round progress if somebody became an would like to make it clear before this august M.P., a minister or joined Government serv- House that this Bill coulp not be made COrTl- ice. It is thus indicative of the fact that we are prehensive because dectd line was approach- also a part of the Government, we can also ing fast. There are several other issues also become an M.P., an M.L.A, and a Minister. viz. land reforms, granting statutory status to We can also have a share in power. We have the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes to think about the measures for raising their Commission, setting up of special courts to standard of living and removing the eco- deal with the cases of atrocities etc. We are nomic disparities. The Government is think- fully conscious of our commitments and ing seriously about it, that is why I said that assure you that we will fulfill our commit- the Bill that has been brought before the ments and bring a Bitl to that effect before the House is very important, though appears to House. I have been saying time and again be small one. It is important because it will that we will make all out efforts in this regard. instill confidence in the minds of people There is no dearth of leaders in this country belonging to the weaker section of the soci- and that of policies, but the point which is ety. At the same time, the Government as lacking, is a sincere will to implement these well as the whole country will assure these policies. Laws have been enacted for the people that we are concerned for these weaker sections, for the poor, for the labour weakers sections of the society. class ...

f would like that the entire House should SHRI HARISH RAWAT: When Mr. Dev; express its concern and condemn the anti- Lal is present, intentions are very clear. reservation agitation that is going on all over the country and not alJow this tendency to SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN: Look, it is rise. If his sort of tendency will rise, it will not a matter concerning any particular party. create a feeling of disappointment in the Even when yourown colleagues would speak minds of weaker sections of the society. on this subject, their views may differ. Mr. When people lose confidence and a feeling Jaipal Singh may express one view and Shri of disappointment gains ground in their minds, Rawat another. This state of affairs is seen in a very dangerous situation emerges in the every party. Every one has his own views. country. The anti-reservation stir being launched today is not only deplorable but SHRI JAGPAL SINGH (Haridwar): You also a conspiracy to weaken the country. I have mentioned my name. Sofarourparty is want that people belonging to all sections, all concerned, nobody will differ on policy mat- factions, all parties, whether they are relig- ters as in your case as your Deputy Prime ious or non-religious should condemn this Minister and the Prime Minister differ on move in one voice. This issue should not be reservation policy. made a concern of the Government, instead this should be made a matter of concern for SHRI·RAM VILAS PASWAN: It hardly the nation as a whole. Further action to matters what have been the views of differ- improve the lot of the people belonging to ent Ministers in our Government. But now I 113 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill 114 have come with the documents. It is our will be' able to prevent these people from document. When other' things will come up. going to courts. That is why I submitted that You have a right to speak on that subject. we have a number of programmes and we shall bring them before this House one by SHRI HARISH RAWAT: You are a one. All the hon. Members will get the oppor- good man, we will hear you. tunity of discussing them and not only opportunity but we shall also be happy on this SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN: That is account. In the capa.city of a Minister, I wourd why J say that the genesis of reservation like to assure you that whatever suggestions which has hitherto been followed still contin- are put forward regarding the welfare of ues to be there, Our Government is thinking these weaker sections, whether inside the on that line. There is no question of changing House or outside it, in ~riting or orally, we wilt the basis of reservation. I have to say only not only consider them in all seriousness but this much that the Bill we have brought we will make all possible efforts to achieve forward here, has been brought with a good that end. This Constitution (Amendment) Bill intention. I am happy to note that the commit- has been brought with a view to extend the mants made by the new Government were provision for reservation by another 10 years. not vague at all. We had made clear commit- It will go a long way in fulfilment of our ments. Today we have a good leadership commitment to social, economic and politi- whose intentions are noble. I do not consider cal justice as laid down in the constitution. I it a small incident to display the portrait of Dr. would like that all the parties should unani- Ambedkar in the Central Hall. Our Govern- mously and without any reservation should ment has initiated a proposal for this and the pass this bill. After the passage of this Bill, it portrait of Dr. Ambedkar will be displayed. It will be our duty and outside the House as is Ambedkar who drafted the constitution. If well to take a" possible measures for the his portrait is not displa~ed in the Parliament welfare of the weaker section. Efforts should after 42 years of independence, there can be also be made to fight these forces which are no other sad thing like this for the country ... operating against their .int~rests and ensur~ that they get justice. With this intention I SHRI HARISH RAWAT: We opened a move the Motion for consideration on this University at Lucknow after his name. Constitution (Amendment) Bill.

SHRIRAMVILASPASWAN: Mr. Rawat, [English] we have not been able to display his protrait here in the Parliament House. MR. SPEAKER: Motion moved:

SHRI HARISH RAWAT: His status has 11Th at the Bill fu'rther to amend the been installed here. I thank you for your love Constitution of India, as passed by Rajya for Dr. Ambedkar. . Sabha, be taken into consideration. Now, Shri Vasant Sathe. SHRI KALKA OAS "(Karolbagh): Our love for Ambedkar is not new, it is very old. [ Trans/ation]

SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN: There- SHRI VASANT SATHE (Wardha): Mr. fore, friends,~ the hon. Prime Minister has Speaker, Sir, first of all, I would like to greet announced that· the 'Land Reforms' will be you becausethis is thefirstopportunitywhich included in the Ninth Schedule of the Consti- I have got to make my submission in the tution and it is not an ordinary thing. The House. It is a matter of great pride for us that landless are dispossessed of their land hold- today a person like you who is our old asso- ings allotted to them by the Government ciate and who is committed to socialism is because the landlords take the matter di- occupying this high office. We are confident .rectly tp the court. Under this provision, we that we shall establish a new ideal under 115 Const (62nd Amdt.) Bill DECEMBER 22,1989 Const (6200 Amdt.) Bill 116

[She Vasant Sathe] are free to make their comments. I have no objections in this regard. Moreover, this is your leadership in this House. how the democratic system works.

While speaking on this subject, I would Mr. Speaker, Sir, while welcoming this first like to welcome our young Minister Shri Bill, (would like to submit that it is a laudable Ram Vilas Paswan who has presented his step. This was a part of our manifesto and we views in his capacity as a Minister .... (Inter· had mentioned it in all our speeches as well. ruptions) I support it. ... (Interruptions) I had also stated in my speech that the first step a Government would have to take would SHRI HARISH RAWAT: We would like be to extend the Reservation provision from that the instead of Shri Devi Laf, he should be 40to 50 years. You have broughtthis Bill and appointed as the Deputy Prime Minister ... I would like to congratulate you for it.

( Interruptions) As the matter is of great importance, it requires a detailed discussion. Hthe stand of SHRI MAHADEO RAO SHIWANKAR the Government should be made clear in th~ (Chimur): Mr. Sathe, you said at Wardha beginning, it will provide a clear direction of that it is on account of the special privileges the country. granted to Harijans and Adivasis that the Congress party tost the recent eJections This ;s an appropriate Bill. This provi- because of protection given to the harijans sion should be incorporated in our Constitu- and adivasis by the Congress Party ... (Inter- tion. Baba Saheb Ambedkar who was the ruptions) founding father of our Constitution and who is known as the modern 'Manu' had incorpo- SHRI VASANT SATHE: Whatever I rated this provision in'the Constitution. Ini- may say inside the House or outside, I am tially, it was made for 30 years. Thereafter, it not in the habit of suppressing it. What my was extended for another 10 years and the friend has referred to just now, I would speak current Bill is for extending it for another 10 about it during the course of my submission. years. But I would like to inform you that Baba Saheb was not happy while incorpo- Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of alii would like rating this provision. He wanted that these to submit that so far as my party is con- sections should get the required education cerned, out stand is clearthat we will lend full and come at par with other sections of soci- support to this Constition (Amendment) Bill ety so that they need not beg anyfavourfrom which is aimed at extending the provision for any quarter. He wanted that if the weaker reservation by another 10 years. sections were able to come at par with other$ there would be no need for them to SHRI LALOO PRASAD (Chapra): You request for any favours from others and should also make efforts to stop the anti- instead others would approach them for reservation agitation going on these days. assistance. These were the views of Saba Saheb Ambedkar. But Baba Saheb Am- SHRI VASANT SATHE: Mr. Speaker, bedkar has made this provision because as Sir, if certain amount of restraint is exercised my friend Shri Ram Vilas Paswan has just it win be observed that our views are quite submitted that much injustice has been similar to yours on several national issues. committed to these people for thousands of There is no difference of opinion in that years and they have been subjects to ex- regard but these are some matters which treme social and economic exploitation. require sorting out. Therefore, I would like to request that our hone friends should have a This question has received much em- little patience. They should listen patiently phasis in our social system. Right from Pt. and after that if they find some lacuna there Jawahar lat Nehru to Jai Prakash Narain 117 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 118 and Dr. Ram Manohar Lohia, it has been line, remain deprived of any facility. We are emphasised time and against that unless even poorer than them so why does not the economic exploitation of these communities Congress give us any facilities or reserva- is checked. true economic justice cannot be tions ... (/nte"uptions) .... provided to them. No doubt, this has not been done so far. We all will have to put our [English] heads together to find an answer to this problem. We will have to rise above the party SHRI KHEMCHANDBHAI SOMABHAI tines in this Matter. Therefore I would like to CHAVDA (Patan): Sir, he is misguiding the request that while considering this question House. There is economic restriction ... (Inte;- the background of injustice meted out to ruptions) these people in the past cannot be ignored. The practice of untouchability was such that [ Trans/ation] these deprived people could not even come anywhere nearthe people belonging to upper MR. SPEAKER: All right. Please be castes. I have mentioned these kinds of seated, you have got up without any rea- oppression in my speeches. You may check sons. the record. SHRI RAM NAIK (Bombay North): Mr. I have reiterated this point time and Speaker, Sir, on a point of order, Sir (Inter- against. My adversary at the election ruptions) The statement of the han. Member launched amassive propaganda war against is not true ... (Interruptions) me and that is why he could succeed in cornering 1.25 lakh votes which otherwise MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of would have gone in my favour. I would like to order, your turn will also come. Please be teU you as to how and qn which slogan they seated ..... (lnterruptions) .... could manage this so that you are able to understand this matter in its proper perspec- SHRI RAM NAIK: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I tive. What was the slogan of my opponent want to know as to who has said this. Please friend who was a joint candidate of the BJP tell this. and the Shiv Sena? He used to lament in his speeches. MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please take your seat. .. (Interruptions) ... ''The Government have spoiled the people telonging to scheduled castes and SHRI RAM NAIK: Mr. Speaker, Sir, minority communities by providing them all please tell the name of the person who has sort of facilities and appeasing them whereas said this. He is speaking sheer.:· we belonging to majority communities and other castes are facing injustice. The major- MR. SPEAKER: " ... " is un-parliamen- ity communities and other castes as also tary. This should be expunged from the their children are being exploited," I am proceedings of the House. Please take your quoting this from his speeches. seat. Shri Sathe ... (/nt€!rruptions) ...

Shri Paswan used to say that all facili- SHRI VASANT SATHE: Truth is always ties are being provided to or being grabbed bitter. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the thing is that both by the children of those scheduled castes you and I have spent a substantial period who have become rich, or have become here and are familiar with some conven- Ministers or big licence holding contractors tions. My friend is using the word ' ... " which and are earning As. 2-3 thousand per month. is un-parliamentary and no doubt it will be The poor among them living below poverty expunged from the proceedings. Secondly

"Expunged as ordered by the Chair. 119 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill DECEMBER 22, 1989 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill 120

[Sh. Vasant Sathe] 13.01 hrs.

he is asking me to tell he name. I am not The Lok Sabha ten adjourned for Lunch till doing so deliberately because as per one of Fourteen of the Clock our Rules a person who is not present here and cannot defend himself, should not be 14.03 hrs. named here. Therefore, I am not telling his name. I have no problem in telling his name. The Lok Sabha re-assembled after Lunch I am only speaking about the persons who at three minutes past Fourteen of the are campaigning this. W1lat I submitted here Clock just now, has relevance due to which I am saying it. They asked as to why we are going [SHRI JASWANT SINGH in the Chai1 facilities to scheduled castes and scheduled tribes and not to backward classes. In CONSTIUTION (SIXTY-SECOND Viddharba region, whi~h is considered to be AMENDMENT) BILL-CONTD the Citadel of Congress in 1977 sweep all the 11 members who were elected belonged [English] to opposition and this time they have got five seats. They contribute this change to the fact MR. CHAIRMAN: I call the hon. Mem- that 80% of the elecLorate belong to back- bers from Wardha, Shri Vasant Sathe to ward classes who are with them. They said continue his speech. that they are poor and exploited and in spite of being educated they do not get jobs, [ Trans/ation] reservation etc. and facilities are continued to be extended to the minorities and the SHRI VASANTSATHE: Mr. Chairman, scheduled castes and scheduled tribes in Sir, I thank you very much. As I was saying order to appease them as they are consid- that this is a symbol of the way elections ered to be the vote bank. were conducted in Wardha and the wave which overcame the entire country. That is 13.00 hrs. why my friend asked me to tell what I had said at Wardha. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, This was the charge they used to level and I Sir, in that context I was saying that while submit that if whatever is taking place in the some of our friends from the Opposition country ;s not taken seriously, all of us wiff were saying that no facilities have been have to repent. The children of our own Party provided to other backward sections' wOo Members, I remember told us in a meeting are also called D.B.C. and who constitute that if now when Mandai Commission report more than 80 per cent of the population, in has been submitted you cannot take any Vidarbha, though many years have passed steps, then Lord Rama along would be our since Mandai Com mission submitted' their saviour. J am telling y6ur their views. Now report. The Congress was blamed for not they say Siyawar Ramch~ndr~ ~.jai. Pawan paying any attention or providing any facili- Sut Hanuman ki jai. And"flOW in ~haras'h ties to backward classes. They complaine,p tra, it has further been added ... that only the children of the of the Scheduled Castes are getting benefit though their par- ents have become rich and are on high MR. SPEAKER:, Shri $athe~ ·you may posts. L 9 ••• continue after lunch~ SHAI MANVENDRASIN

··Expunged as ordered by the Chair. 123 Const (62nd Amdt.) 8lI DECEMBER 22, 1989 Const (6200 Arndt.) Bill 124

[She Vasant Sathe] difficult to handle. We people are wel1-8n- trenched in our heritage. Religion deeply You are going to create conflict by mislead- influences our minds and hearts. Therefore ing the unemployed youth belonging to the responsibility lies on everyone. All saints backward & poor section of the society. "the and sages have given a message of human- youth of weaker sections and other back- ity. Let us not be swept away by emotion, ward communities are made to believe that The youth of today has been misled because reservation given to Scheduled castes and of unemployment. This appli$s to all issues. Scheduled Tribes is causing injustice to them, If we step out of our emotional co-coons, we then they may be misguided. I was saying shall know the real situation. Be it the Punjab that this is not the right step and this is what problem or any other problems, at the root of I said in my election campaign. The Jawahar them all is the dissatisfied and angry youth ... Rozgar Yojana and other such schemes were made to help the poor. Now we will .... (Interruptions) ..... welcome any efforts made by the new Gov- ernment to solve this issue of national di- [English] mensions. Such issues are above party pplitics. With partisan outlook one cannot MR. CHAIRMAN: I would like to caution solve the problem. Today the youth of the you that there are 11 speakers from your country is a troubled lot. If you want to know party. I do not want to interrupt you. But the real reason. please be mindful of the time.

AN HON. MEMBER: You are the real SHRI VASNANT SATHE: I would like to reason. ( Interruptions). set the trend. " I am not interrupted, I wilt conclude very early. AN. HON. MEMBER: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the present generation in this country is MR. CHAIRMAN: I am also ~indful of suffering because these people could not do the interruptio"s. I will give you adequate anything for them in the last 40 years. time. But I want to caution you.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You please take your [ Trans/ation] seat. SHRI VASANT SATHE: Mr. Chairman, SHRI VASANT SATHE: I would Ike to Sir, why is oommunaJism flaring up in this tell you that if he is pacified by saying this country? This is because some people have much that the present sorry state of affairs is given a religious tint to the :unning of this attributed to our being in power for so many country. Their strength in the House has years, let him tell so and we do agree that it increase from 2 to 88. I oongratulate them is because of us. Good or bad, we cannot and wish them many more such achieve- deny it. That is why we are in this position ments. But think of the role played by religion today. You have come into power. in their achievement. ( Intenvptions) ...

AN HON. MEMBER: This is ibtida-e- SHRI HARIN PATHAK (Ahmedabad): ishk". How is he saying that our number has increased to 88 because of religion the elec- SHRI VASANT SATHE: It is for you to torates of this country have elected us. It is judge. , would like to humbly teR my h~n. due to them that our number has risen to 88. colleagues that they have just come into Nobo4y can level baseless allegations power ridding on a wave. They should give against any political party. The members. serious though to this aspect. Once cas- belonging to the B.J.P. have been success teism and caste hatred are a,lOwed to spread ful because of the Party's manifesto and "ot in this country, the situation will become very on the basis of religious sentiment. 125 Const (62nd Amdt.) 811 PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Const (62nd AIIIdL) 8iI 126

[English] bi1t; was taken as basis for determining castes. None of the of We have got our pmgrammes and manifesto today or any other personS_ knawtadgaable on which we fought the elections and people about Hindu mlture wII say that we should of the country have given us 88 seats. This have a caste-system basedon birth. I althe is not because of you. ioi;: Shankar-=haryas say this. ttwn wiI be a revolution in ~ country. Are you prepared MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. Member to say it? I this caste-sy-;!~ remains, then speaking has got a right to his views just as you wiD ask for caste-based res8t;;aii::§. you have a right to your views. let him say The Mandai Commission wiD come inm the what he wishes to say. picture. It wil &ntaiJ hour ci discussion and numerous demands for reservation based SHRI KAlKA DAS: Mr. Chairman, Sir, on each and every caste. There wi! be no they ~anted to play party politi:s, how can limit to this. They created fatse aspiration they solve national issues? among the masses. They gave a call to tl* people during the eledioncxxnpaingtocome SHRI VASANT SATHE: Let me fore- under the saffron flag and carry a brick in the warn the House that the concept of Hindu name of Lord Rama. This is against the ideal nation baing reiterated by them willlaad us of Lord Rama evan. It \VOU1d be wrong to tak towards narrow-miridedness. People who of casteism in the name of Lord Rama who speak in this vein are themselves not aware had embraced 'Kevat' (Boatman) and who that we have a vedic heritage, what we had eaten the plums tasted by the adNasis t called tSanatan Dharma'. There is no place Sabri: for narrow-mindedness here. This is what Adi Shankaracharya said. We have many The so called word 'Hindu' oft repeated learned persons among the 000. Members by them is not found in any of our Vedas, and they shaft have much to say on Hindu Shastras. Manu SamritL the Gaeta or the culture. But I would like to say that there Mahabharata or the Ramayana. The word cannot be a greater authority on Hindu cut- tHindu' has not been mentioned anywhere in ture than Adi-Shankaracharya and I would those scriptures. It is not a word of our origin. like to quote him. He said ....(lntenuptions) It is a derivative of word 'Sindu' as in Persian language the alphabet ·S·is pronounced as [Eng/ish] '"H'. Thus this word 'Sind\( began to be pronounced as Hindu'. Does ." cha'act.. You sit in the Chair and then tell me. Have of Hindu scriptures claim his religion as you not attended any orientation course? Indian? Can any of you say so? I nat. why this Hindu religion .•.. [ Translation] SHRI JANARDHAN TPNARI (Siwant: SHRI KALKA DAS: Mr. Chairman. Sir. From where did 7he Hindu' daily stall pub- perhaps he does not know the meaning of lication? It was from Madras sixty years ago. Hindu nat.ion. A Hindu nation means lSar_ What a great exponent of word Hindu·. vadharma Sambhava'. (Englsh)

SHR. VASANT SATHE: Adi Shankara- SHRI VASAHT SATHE: He does not charya has saki 'Najatyabrahmanotraksba- understand what I am saying. triya vaishya eva ella. na shudro nathwa mfachho bhedit guna karma bhi_' There [ TtansIabJ) 'cannot be a better description of our culture, or our Sanatan dharma than this. The sIu- I am saying that the BiB which has n.::~ ation we are seeing today arose ever since brought today is not m.-aIy aimed al in- 127 Const (62nd Amdt.) Bill DECEMBER 22,-1989 Const. (Sand Amdt.) Bill 128

[Sh. Vasant Sathe] years, if we have to provide reservation for another 500 years, we will provide reserva- creasing the reservation provision from 40 to tionforthem. ButyourGovernment is saying 50 years ..... (/nt9"Uptions) You will continue something and doing something else. What to do this and you will make the country men is the result thereof? Two leaders of your fight among themselves in the name of relig- own party have been saying that reservation ion and caste. It will result in the situation the is a fraud. Only economic condition should country is witnessing tOday. The youths of be taken into account for providing reserva- country are agitating. If you take pleasure in tion, they said. What do they mean by it? Mr. casting aspersion on each other, then it is all Chairman, Sir, they are talking of snatching right, you are free to do it. If the ruling party of rights. There is a conspiracy behind it and gets satisfaction in passing the buck to oth- a fraud is being committed. I welcome the ers for this country wide violence, it is right, step taken by the present Government to we will be the last person to grudge against extend the period of reservation for another you I thought that the way Shri Ram Vilas ten years. The Government should make its Paswan initiated the discussion with all its policy clear that the facilities provided to this seriousness, the issue will be debated rais- hopeless section of our society will not be ing above partisan ends.1 am coming to this withdrawn in any circumstances. A number point, if they do not like it, then it is a different of facilities have been provided to them matter, But you see provisions have been under Articles 15 (4) and 16 (4) of the Con- made for scheduled castes and scheduled stitute which read like this. tribes in the constitution. As I said in the very beginning that by providing reservation for Article 15 (4) of the Constitution says: 30 years 40 years, the atrocities on scheduled castes and scheduled tribes people for Nothing in this article or in the Clause the last 4000 years could not be removed II of article 29 shall prevent the State with one stroke. People belonging to a sec- from making any special provision for tion of our society were forced to live outside the advancement of any socially and the village as even their shadows were educationally backward classes of citi- considered to- be untouchable. They were zens or for the Scheduled Castes and not allowed to take water from the village Scheduled Tribes.' well. H one is subjected to such mal treat- mantto day, how he feel offended. You can This is the salutary provision for giving the well imagine it. They were subjected to such first amendment. Article 16(4) the Constitu- mal treatment not for a year or two, rather tion says: they have been subjected to such mattreat- mentforthe last 4000 years. Now something 'Nothing in this article shall prevent the has been given to them by way of reserving State from making any provision for the some seats in State Assemblies and Lok reservation of appointments or posts in Sabha. Much hue and cry is being made on favour of any backward class of citizens it. It is being said that injustice is being done which in the opinion of the State is not to other communities. Do you know what our adequately represented in the services Govemment has done in this regard. It was under the State.' our leader who had increased the reservation period from 30 to 40 years. It was we Now the period of reservation is being who first made this demand and we welcome extended from 40 to 50 years. I do not the step taken by you. We thank your Gov- understand why so much uproar is being emment for this .. (lnterruptions) ... Hneed be, made in the country on this issue. In article we will continue it for another SOO years and 46 of the Directive Principles it has bean will"9t allow atrocities to be'committed on said:- them. This is our view point. For the atrocities committed on them for the last 5000 " The State shall promote with special 129 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill 130

care the educational and economic in- SHRI KHEMCHANDBHAI SOMABHAI terests of the weaker sections of the CHAVDA : No, no, Sir. (Interruptions) You people, and, in particular, of the Sched- decide the time-limit. He has taken about 50 uled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes, minutes. and shall protect them from social injustice and all forms of exploitation." ( Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask as to whether we are taking measures to ensure that the provisions made in the consti- MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude, Mr. tution are neither diluted nordone away with. Sathe. If not, the person, or the class of persons or the party. whosoever they may be, is work- [Trans/ation] ing against the constitution and the unity and integrity of the country for which all of us SHRI VASA NT SATHE: This country have taken a pledge. We have to say this if belong to all of us. I am saying this thing not one does not want to uplift the poor people, onlyforthe Members of this House but for all it has to be pointed out. To be a proud ish is our countrymen. Yesterday, one of my friends a bad thing. There is saying in Marathi that from Goa recited a very good couplet from 'Garva Che Ghar Khathi". It means that pride a Sant Gyaneshwari":- will have a fall. Even then slogan is being raised that say with pride that we are so and "Vishv Svadharamsurya Paho." so" (Interruptions). It is need of the hoarthat if at all, we have SHRI HARIN PATHAK (Ahmedabad): I to say something with pride, we should say can name the persons who are spearhead- that we are human being. This is required ing this agitation. In Gujarat, leaders of youth today. We should not be narrow minded. Congress have launched this movement. Only a good human being can become a They belong to ruling party. This anti-reser- good Hindu or a good Christian or a good vation agit-ation is being launched by the Muslim or a good Sikh. A bad or untruthfull people belonging to Congress party. (Inter- man will always take others to narrow mind- ruptions). edness, thereby endangering the existence of the society and the country. MR. CHAIRMAN: Now you please take your seat. While speaking on this issue, I would like to request that our present Government ( Interruptions) should adopt a clear cut policy on this issue and should not compromise with the person [English] or the group of the persons wanted to curtail the facilities which you with to provide to t'" SHRt KHEMCHANDBHAI SOMABHAI weaker sections of the society. Our party will CHAVDA : On a point of order, Sir. strongly oppose any such action which cur- tails or snatches the facilities provided to the people belonging to minorities and the Sched .. MR. CHAIRMAN: Under what rule? uled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. I hope all right thinking members of this august House SHRI KHEMCHANDBHAI SOMABHAI will also strongly oppose such action. CHAVDA: He has taken 50 minutes. Is there any restriction about time ? With these words, I conclude and agai" \, MR. CHAIRMAN: Is it a point of order thank you for providing me on opportunity to against me? express my views. 131 Canst (62nd AIrd.) _ DECEMBER 22. 1989 Canst (62nd AmdL) BII 132

which is before 1his august House. WhIle sa 'AXM1iIag this BiI. I would like to make YR CHAIRMAN: Before I cal Mr. KS. some observations. Sir, no member belong- Chavda, , would request the Wh., of the ing to Scheduled castes had wer been Congress (I) party 10 nota that there are 11 elected on a seat other than the reserved speakers andthe hon. Membertrom Warc:lla seal in the Assembly and in the Lok Sabha. has taken up 50 minutes of the time allotted look at the general election recently hetd. 10 you. Now, please aIIocate1hetime accord- Two members belonging to the Scheduled ingIy. Thera is a time limit. We are under a Castes have been given the Janata Oat oonstraint. tickets for a general seat. They have been elected on the general seats by defeating (~) two formers rulers. I oongratulate the two Members from Orissa Shri Bhakta Charan MR. CHAIRMAN: But the debate can- Das and Shri Bhaj Mohan Behera who c0n- not be infinite in its time. There is time limit tested on the Janata Oal tickets on the gen- and there is a party time allotted. eral seats and defeated the Congress rivalS.

SHRt SONTOSH MOHAN OEV: Regarding tha reservatKln policy, the (Tr1M'a West): Sir, the tradition of this House hone Prime Minister Shri V. P. Singh has has been that we take four hours instead of made it amply clear during his first press the three hours allotted. We take some good conference and during the debate that took things from the erstwhile Opposition (Inter- place yesterday in the House. H I mistake ruptions) ~ he said that the reservatoo policy would continue tiB the scheduled caste ad sched- MR. CHAIRMAN: Kindly allow me to uled trbe peopfe are brought to the level of, finish. The principal speaker from your party or at par with the rest of the people of our has been shown every oonsideration. There country economically and socially. The per- are 11 speakers from your party. I am just sons who do not belong to the category of . asking you to allocate the time between your scheduled castes and scheduled tribes say 11 speakers. Wil you kindly allocate the time that the reservation policy cannot go on for for those speakers? aver: it cannot continue for long. Another charge that has been levelled against the THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. scheduled castes people who are advanced MAOHU DANDAVATE): Sir, sincethetradi- is that they atso want to retain this reserva- lion of this House has been pointed out. I tion policy. Thirdly. it is said that the reserva- may remind you that whenever any member tion policy should not be on caste lines, but trom any party bke ~ time than aBotted, economic criterion should be adopted. I wiD .., always adjust the number of speakers be dealing with these three points . so that the MIotIed time will not disturbed. I ~ very eager that the Bill should t. UR CHAJRUAN: I do not want to passed in this session and today itself, so suggest that. It is up to the Opposition. that the scheduled caste and scheduled trbe people can take advantage of this in the (IntemJptions) coming Assembly elections.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I have been given the So far as the reservation policy is con- names here. Mr. K.S. Chavda may speak cerned, I am in favour of continuing tf)is now. policy till cfascrimination arising out of the practice of untouchability is removed. look SHR1 KHEMCHANDBHAI SOMABHAI at the picture in India today. In the YiUage!-. CHA VDA (patan): Mr. Chairman, Sir,I rise to scheduled castes people live at the outskulS support the Constitution (Amendment) Bil of the villages and in cities. they live if! siums. 133 Const (62nd Arndt.) Bill PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Const. (6200 Arndt.) Bill 134

They are not allowed to live and mix with instance. When I tried to interrupt Mr. Sathe- others in the inside localities of the villages when he was speaking-l said, economic and cities. Whereas Muslims can live, Chris- restriction is there for students who belong to tians can live, but these scheduled caste Scheduled Cast. category. H the annual people who are Hindus are not allowed to income of the patent of a Scheduled Caste live with others. That is the position. look at student exceeds Rs. 10,000, he is not en- the discrimination. In certain viOages even titled for scholarship. H any of his family today. scheduled castes people are not al- members got this advantage, then he is not lowed to draw water frQm the common well. entitled to take this benefit. There are sev- The barbers do not serve them. "this type of eral other restrictions which people do not discrimination continues, I am not in favour know. Even if they know, they deliberately of abolishing this reservation policy. H these say otherwise. Although I am a Member of people remain backward as they are today, parliamentary since 1960, I also belong to and if reservation policy is discontinued, it Scheduled Caste category and my income would be disastrous for the country t and the does exceed As. , 0,000, but my daughters country will go to dogs. and sons did not avail of the concession, i.e. scholarship. The same thing applies to other Majority of the Indian people belong to persons also. scheduled caste, scheduled tribe and other backward classes. look at the population Now. I would like to bring to the notice of census of 1981. ThQrefore, untit and unless this han. House the 9COflomic conditions of socially and economically these people are Scheduled Castes. If the economic condi- raised to the level of the rest of the people in tion of a Sct-aeduled Caste is sound and if he our society, the reservation policy should be owns a cart he will not get a caste Hindu continued. driver. rt is because if h~ want to have water he has to fetch water from the house of the Scheduled Caste onty. So, he believes in There are people who may say that the untouchability. That is why I laid stress on Scheduled Castes who have advanced this particular point H they remain socially economically .want to retain reservation. I backward and also economically backward, deny that. It is not in our hands. For example t then this reservation should continue. That if a member belonging to Scheduled Caste is is wny I would request that at least for God's a Collector or an M.P., will he be allowed to sake. do not bring any econornic criteria for live in villages with the caste Hindus or in the Scheduled Castes. If you do SOp it will ruin mixed localities? No. About 80 Members are the country. You very weB know as to what is there in this House who belong to Scheduled happening inskia and ou1side the country ... Caste category. Will their family members be allowed to fetch water from the same SHRr HARIN PATHAK: Stm untouch- weD? No. This discrimination is still continu- abiirty is there. ing in our country. SHRt KHEMCHANDBHAt SOMA8HAI I congratulate the National Front Party CHAVDA: My hon. friend Shn Pathak is here. What thoy preached earlier, they have right. Stm untoucr.abifrty is there. There are now started practising. Mr. Sathe, you show nct allowed to enter the Nathdwada T enlple only Up-sympathies. Already forty years have or for that matter even some othertempies in passed since we got independence but still our country. My hon. friend Shri Sathaji also they remain as they were. Regarding my talked about Shankarachalya. A Conf.erence third point, according to the Judgement of which was held in Patna in 1959 was pre- the High Court or the Supreme Court, this sided over by Dr. Karan Singh. At that time, reservation is not communal. Anybody can Shankaracharya said! .. t believe In untouc~· go through the judgement of the Supreme ability." SliD they continue to believe in un- Court. They have mentioned each and every touchability. He said, "Ii you want ~c pwnish 135 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill DECEMBER 22, 1989 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 136

[She Khemchandbhai Somabhai Chavda] completed even in forty years for which the Constituent Assembly took a resolution to me, you can do so, You can put me in the jail. complete within ten years. It is an utter failure Even if you cut me into pieces, I will stand by of the Government and the society. Shri that." This is what he narrated. In support he Sathe said that it would be continued even said, "even women are considered untouch- forfive hundred years. What did it mean? Did ables during the four days of menstrual he mean that they would not be brought at period". So, he believes in untouchability. I par with the other castes even in next five want to know from the hone Members be- hundred years? This is not a question of any longing to Congress (I), as to what is the party alone, but is a fundamental question stand of their party reg'arding reservation in linked with the unity of the country as a educational institutions, in services or posts whole. If this question is considered on party of the States and the Union. What is your lines, it may result in disintegration of the party's stand? You are not clear, my friend. country, as a lot of disruptive activities are I know you are a good friend of mine. We taking place outside this House. So it is have been together in several Committees, necessary to consider this question by rising I know. above party politics. We all know the forty years have passed since the provision of Sir, they are not clear in their minds. reservation was made. By extending the They only give sermons before the House. period of reservation for another ten years, According to the rules, they have to be here, the House is only completing a formality. Mr. What to do? This is the position. I am sorry to Chairman, Sir, we will come here again after say so; my friends should not feel ill, be- ten years to perform this ritual of extending cause it is a fact that they have given a tot of the period of reservation for another ten sermons, but not a practical thrust. Did his years. I would like to submit emphatically party give tickets during the last elections to that the resolution passed by the Constituent any SC man for the General seat? No; that is Assembly forty years ago had not be imple- why I say that whatthis Janata Dal preached, mented and the main reason behind it was is being practised by it now. Give some time, that the earlier Governments of this country and you will find good results from this side. never tried to let the people belonging to these castes become self-dependent, but I would say something about Gujarat only tried to convert them into a vote bank. also. One ST candidate, belonging to BJP The situation would not have been as it Mr. Chandubhai Deshmukh defeated your prevailed today, even after forty years, had Gujarat Congress (I) ptesident, Mr. Ahmed attempts been made to make these castes Patel, from a General seat. look at the self-dependent. Peopleofthese castes would intention of this party, and then give some not have been such a neglected lot aftar time, . these forty years.

I will not take more time, Sir. I am very I would like to submit another point. I eager that this Bill should be passed in this fully share the views expressed by an hon'ble Session. Member who spoke before me that all parties should field scheduled castes and sched- SHRI SHANTA KUMAR (Kangra): Mr. uled tribes candidates on unreserved seats. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support the 62nd Shri Sathe and others may say whatever Amendment Bill. I would like to make it clear they like about our party, but this time our that BJP fully supports this Amendment. I party fielded a scheduled tribe candidate on would like to submit that it has been ac- an unreserved seat and got him elected to cepted in the statement of objects and rea- this House. sons attached to the Bill that the work has not been completed in the stipulated time-limit. I I would like to submit another point. In will emphasise that work has not been view of the population of these caste~, an 137 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Cons'. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 138 amendment is very necessary. The number ment. In a country where there are erores of of voters cannot be increased. But there educated unemployed, something or the should be no hitch in rotating the reserved other will certainly happen. Sometimes it will constituencies. At present certain constitu- be on the issue of reservation or sometime encies are reserved for the last twenty years on any other issue. The main reasons are and only scheduled castes and scheduled poverty and unemployment. What has been tribes candidates can contest from there done in these 40 years to solve this prob- which meant that other castes are deprived lem? representation from those constituencies. Likewise a scheduled caste or scheduled 15.00 hrs. tribe candidate finds it difficult to contest from an unreserved seat. So there should be Only plans were form ulated and poverty and rotation of reserved constituencies. Even if disparity remained on the increase. On one the population ofthat area remains the same, hand, there are some people who have so there should be de-limitation. There should much wealth that they donot know how to be rotation of reserved constituencies, so spend and on the other hand, there are cores that the people belonging to other castes of people in the country, who donot know should also have the opportunity to repre- how to bring up their children. Who is re- sent and in other constituencies, the sched- sponsible for this disparity? Are the last uled caste candidates could also have the Government and the Congress Party neSt opportunity of representation. responsible for this, who have continuously ruled the country for such a long time. I want So far as this question is concerned, that the new Government should bring some there cannot be two opinions in this regard. fundamental changes in this area, some But the discussion carried out outside the new schemes should be made so that the House on this question is not a discussion at poverty and unemployment and dissatisfac- all. It is an agitation which poses great dan- tion among the youth can be removed. ger to country. I have been elected to this Houseforthe first time and this is my maiden The second reasons is that there is speech. While Shri Sathe was speaking, I poverty among the other castes also. The was quite disappointed and the reason of my poorest among those castes are agitated. disappointment was that if we, the elected Some new attempts should be made in this members indulge in making allegations and regard. I would like to repeat again that the counter allegations on such fundamental question does not arise to take back the questions due to party politics, which should facilities provided to the scheduled castes be considered seriously and attempts should and scheduled tribes, but the Government be made to reach cons·ensus, then who will should also pay attention towards the poor save this country. belonging to other castes.

We all should oppose the agitations 15.01 hrs. going on in the country. Alltheparties should say that they support the reservation policy. [SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE in the BJP supports all the reservations made in Chai;j the services. There should be no doubt about our stand in this regard. But attention should I would, now, like to refer to Himachal be paid to the agitators also. We should try to Pradesh. In 1977-78, when Janata Govern- understand why th is agitation is taking place. ment came in power, an experiment was I find three reasons behind it. made by starting Antyodaya scheme. This scheme was started in Himachal Pradesh. The first season is that there is poverty Antyodaya was a favourite word of Mahatma and unemployment. The youth of the coun- Gandhi. The Congress only took votes in the try is suffering from the pangs of unemploy- name of Mahatma G~ndhi, but we tried to 139 Const. (62nd AmdtJ BII DECEMBER 22. 1989 Const. (62nd AmdL) BII 1«)

[Sh. Shanta Kumar} Government should launch such oomprehensive schemes which will provide benefit materialise the Antyodaya dream of Ma- to poor people. The Govemment shou~ hatma Gandhi in reality in Rajasthan and in think about the poorest d the poor. I would Himachal Pradesh in 1977-78. Under the like to appeal that oomprehensive national Antyodaya scheme in Himachal Pradesh the schemes may be prepared fortha downtrod- poorest families from every viDage were den people. We had set up a Financial seleded. 19thousand famiJtes were setected Corporation for various schemes in Hima- in the first phase. Among those 19 thousand chal Pradesh. We tried a number of experi- families, 68 per cent were from scheduled ments. Unfortunatety. after assuming office" castes and 33 per cent from other castes. It the new Government scrapped all these was directed by the Govemment that the schemes. At the tim& of planning these poorest among these identified families schemes, we had the poorest of the poor in should be provided help through these our mind. We knew that the influential people schemes on top priority basis. Later. the can easily get their work done in the banks. scheme should move upward.. The system But the poor people whose clothes were of our society is such that whatever the tattered cannot be go to banks. We had set schemes of development and social justice up the Antodaya Finance Corporation for the were made. they were all started from above benefit of the poor. o.n objective was to and got stucked in the middle. There was no provide the benefit of these schemes first to benefit to the lowest class of the society. tam the poorest ot the poor in the society. I would not among those who say that no devebp- like this experiment to be made at the na- ment has taken place in the last 40 years. tionai level. I want that the Government There was progress and social develop- should launch such a scheme for the uptift of ment, but there was no.social justice. Those the downtrodden people. As regards other who are at the lowest strata, got very less or families they should be identified on the nothing at all. . basis of their economic condition. New pro- visionsshouJdbe made and separate alloc4- I would li'te to draw your attention on too of funds should be made for them. All one more point We adopted a selection such steps should be taken so as to pacify method while selecting the 19 thousand otners who have landed on the path of ag;ta- poQI'8St families from HimachaJ Pradesh. tion~ If a Rajput or a Brahmin is poor, what The reY6nue authority selected proorest five remedy is available to them? The discon- families f;om each viHage. It was arranged tentment brewing in their minds could be on behalf of the Government that it will not be dispelled with the making of separate provi- the final decision. A meeting of Gram Sacha sions for them also. A Jot of hue and cry is was called and all the villagers were invited. also noticed in Government services. This They were told that in the first phase, the agitation is being spearheaded by those who poorest famities of their village have to be are aflecled particularly in the matter of helped and the selected people were ap. promotions. I do not plead for scrapping the proved by the Gram Sabha. The villagers provisions of reservations in promotion, ~ also approved them unanimously_ We had t want that their view point must be taken into conducted a survey in which about 19,000 consideration. Some way out couJd be found poorest of the poor families which did not out for this. It is not necessary that benefits receive even a single paisa during the last 30 should be provided to other sections at the years from these schemes were iderttified-a cost of facifities being made available to view which was endorsed by the people scnaduled castes and scheduled tribes. What themselves. I would like to say that under the I mean is that the Government should make prevailing system the bene1its of various some earnest efforts to remove the discon- schemes in tile country reach the upper tent among other sections of people. class and middle class people and not the lowest class. 19 therefore, want that the I \4\.1)uki Ike to make yet another submis- 141 Const (62nd AIndL) BII PAUSA 1, 1989 ($AKA) Canst. (62nd AmdL) 811 142 sion. This is regarding facilities being made cal parties who are alleged to have engi- available to scheduled castes and sched- neered the uncaled for situation, 10 make a uled triMJs. It has been repeated time and _ and check it. Mr. Sathe again in the House as weH as outside that has charged our party with instigating relig- those who have already availed of the bene- ious feelings in the electorate and thereby fits. should not be given the benefit for the winning 86 seats. In this connactian, I would second time. l on my part. do not make such like to tel him that they have lost the polls a demand. But one thing I must say that and they should acceptthedefeal in a sports- gradualy two groups are. emerging from man's spirit. They faced defeat for quite a among the scheduled castes. let me cite an few times only but we have ever been a instance from Himachal Pradesh. In certain vanquished lot. We win occasionally. But we viIages in the State. there are some people have never taken the defeat in that spirit. We belonging to the reserved category who have rose to 86 from 2 not by instigating any bemmetop lAS. officers and are prosper- feelings. rather our number rose to 86 fl'ORl ous. After getting various modem facilities 2 due to the blessings of Shri Sathe. Had they have shifted their residence from the their party not spread such rampant c0rrup- parent locality ~ I am afraid to note that two tion, such a situation would have never arisen. groups might emerge from among them. I do Their' image sagged due to their corruption not say that they prosperous group should and we roseto 86 from 2 on our own strength. be debarred of the benefits. But I would like It is due to the situation created by them in 10 make a suggestion to the Government the country, that such a state of affairs has that priority should be accorded to provide emerged. (Jntenupliof!s) Nobody can deny benefits to those families first, who are this thing. When Olympic Games are held in comparatively poor. There are families who vaoous parts of the world, our medal tally is could avail benefits four times..u (Interrup- negligible. On the other hand if an olympic is tions) What I want to say ts that as compared held for corruption, all the prizes will be won to families who have avaited maximum by our camp. I, therefore, say that it is not benefItS. priority shouJd be aCcordedtD those properto make such petty points. I would like families who have not yet avaned any benefit 10 submit further .... during the past 40 years. Th:s is my suggestion to the Government ( lntenuptions)

Finally, I would like to make a sugges- SHRI KALPNA TH RAJ (Ghosi): Madam tion A lot of things have been said by the Chairman, I am on a point of order. hone Members from both the sides. I would like to can upon my colleagues in the Con- { interruptIOns} gress to verify the fad as per a report published in a mid-day newspaper that in Delhi MR. CHAIRMAN: What is your pointqf the activists of N.S.U.t. have made an an- order? nouncement that their elected members in 14 colleges would convene a meeting in SHRI KAlPNATH RAi; I have to make which they would decide to launch an anti- a submission against the points he has made. reservation campaign.. God forbid, this news ( Interruptions) should be faise. If it is true. I am apprehen- sive that JX>litics is playing its dirty tricks in MR. CHAIRMAN: Shanta Kumar ji, this agitation which is spreading everywhere. please continue. I am afraid because we have already tasted its bitterness. Madam Chairman. the orgy of SHRi SHANTA KUMAR: Madam, such vblence did not break in Pu~jab, on its own petty things should not be said in the House. rather it was created. There is a long history I had never expected that Shri Sathe, would as to how it all happened in Punjab and who ridicule the steps taken by ctOf9S of devo- are the people behind it. I request the politi-- tees of lord Ram for the constructio... of tflS 143 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill DECEMBER 22.1989 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 144

[She Shanta Kumar] ered whether the circumstances underwhich the said provision was made have changed temple. I may remind him that he is one of the and whether social exploitation and dispari- oldest members in this House and members ties have ended. In case it is otherwise, there like me have to learn a lot of things from him. shall be need of extending this provision. I was highly disappointed to hear his speech. He should discuss the basic issues only. Let However, we have. to accept with much me know what they have done for the Har- regret that it is not that atrocities are not ijans during the past 40 years? Why have being committed any more. Atrocities are they not been able to assuage the pains and still being committed on these unfortunate sufferings of the poor and oppressed people? people. In fact the incidents of atrocities and They only indulged in corruption and. depos- social exploitation are constantly increasing. ited money in Swiss Banks. Instead of reply- During the last 40 years, instead of atrocities ing to these points, he is dealing with these being stopped, there has been an increase petty things. It does not behove him. in the number of such incidents. Nothing can be more shameful than this for any country. Madam Chairman, with these words, I support this Constitution amendment. I urge The report of the commission on Sched- all the parties to come forward and clarify uled Castes and Scheduled Tribes is befor~ their stand on the agitation taking place in us. As per this report. there has been an the country. I hope that they will take the increase in the number of FIRs between basic points that have been raised by me into 1981 and 1986. 70 per cent of these inci- consideration. They should refrain the people dents have taken place in Uttar Pradesh. from carrying out the agitation so that all Bihar, Madhya Pradesh- and Rajasthan. It things leading to the disintegration of the was immaterial to which political party was in country could be resolved. This reservation power in these States. In 1981, the number is necessary. It is our duty as well as the duty of these incidents was 14,318 and in 1986, it of the nation to bring those people who have increased to 15,416. remained backward for centuries at par with others. Every effort should be made to bring So far as the atrocities committed on all these people to the required level by adivasis are concerned, the number of inci- paying due consideration to their problems. dents committed in 1981 was 3,425 and I am fully confident that the new Government 1986 this figure rose to 3.985. Out of these would make all out efforts in this direction. 3,985 incidents, 2,721 incidents occurred in With these words, I support this Constitution the State of Madhya Pradesh. Keeping these amendment. facts in view we will have to consider the matter seriously. SHRIMATI SUBHASHINI ALI (Kanpur): Madam Chairman, on behalf of my party, the It is not that these incidents taken place C.P.I. (M)" I rise to extend my full support to in the rural areas only. Of course, the num- the Constitution Amendment Bill that has ber of incidents are more in the rural areas. been brought before the House. This is because of poverty and backwardness prevailing in the rural areas. Mass rape, As all of you are aware. the reasons for general massacre and their settlements being providing this reservation in our Constitution set on fire are the kind of atrocities which was exploitation and discrimination against take place in the rural areas. But the attitude those people in our country who had not of the people in the urban areas is no better. been given even the human status in the In this connection, I would like to mention country. Today when we are discussing the certain incidents. One such incident occurred issue of extending the provision for reserva- in Bombay. In one of the schools of this city, tion by another ten years and in order to take harijan children were made to clean the tOltat a decision in this matter it has to be consid- saying that it was their traditional occupa- 145 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill 146

tion. In an incident which occurred in Delhi, behind it? The committees set up by the two 12 year old caste Hindu children killed Government are of the opinion that land their harijan classmate'"because he had sat reforms are not being implemented properly , side by side with them to study Sanskrit. He because persons with vested interest are is not allowed to study Sanskrit. The third occupying positions in the Government who - incident concerns Shri Khilahand Jha who;s put obstacl~ in the process of distribution of sitting on 'dharna' even today. His fault was land. But we have seen that where the that he had married a harijan woman. That is Government is well-intentioned and commit- why he is not allowed to stay in his house and ted land reforms are taking place. he has been disnlissed from his job. During the rule of the previous Government he had West Bengal accounts for only 4 per submitted an appeal and he was assured of cent of the total land available in the country. being reinstated on his job and of being Still out of the total surplus land distributed in provided due security. He went back to Bihar. the country, 20 per cent has been distributed But atrocities were committed on his wife by the Left Front Government of the State. and his house was set on fire. Today he has The Left Front Government of West Bengal come back to Delhi seeking justice. I request has distributed 8.6 lakh acres of land and it the present Government to order his rein- has been distributed among the most back- statement and make necessary arrange- ward sections of the rural poor. This matter ments for providing him security. Social in- should be given priority in the agenda of the justice exists even today. Exploitation and new Government. Otherwise land reforms dispa.rities still plague our society. Under will not be implemented and the landless will these circumstances, it is our duty to wel- remain without land and without resources come this amendment. However, I would and as Shri Sathe has stated we will con- like to submit that reservation is not the only tinue to pass such resolutions for the next way out for ending oppression. 500 years. But, we aretryingto usher in fresh approach and establish new conventions so We will have to pay attention to other that the sins committed by the previous matters as well. h is a welcome move that our Government may be atoned. Han. Prime Minister in his speech yesterday and the President in his Address referred to The backward classes and the harijans certain issues and assured that the Govern- are without any means of livelihood because ment will definitely take action regarding they have neither the land nor any other them. Harijans are the worst exploited lot in source to earn their bread. They are tilling the society today. The marn reason behind the land owned by the people. There are 511 oppression is that the, harijans and adivasis 2 crore of landless labourers in the country. are landless. They have no other resources But there are no laws for the protection of as well. The plight of the people, who neither their rights. They do not even enjoy the right own any piece of land nor have any other to life. Except some places where they are kind of resources, is well known. It is good organised and there is mass upsurge to that the new Government has resolved to support their cause, the agricultural labour- introduce land reforms. It has resolved to ers are not able to raise their voice and in make the filler also owner of the land. But case they demand means of livelihood, atroci- there are apprehensions in this connection ties are committed on them and their wives because such resolves were made earlier are raped, huts are set on fire and they are also. The previous Government even cele- killed. There are 5.50 crore agricultural la- brated one year as the year of the Land bourers in the country, safeguarding their Reforms. But what are the facts? During the interests should also be major resrcnsibility last 42 years 77 lakh acres of land was of our new Government. There is another identified as surplus which could be distrib- way out to ~nsuring social justice. In this uted and out of it only 49 lakh acres of land connection efforts should be nlade to was distributed. What were the reasons strengthpn the Panchayat System. There 147 Canst (62nd AmdtJ Bill DECEMBER 22, 1989 Const. (62nd AmdL) BII 1..

[Sml Subhashini Ali] and forest offICials do not consider them as human beings and II-treat them. The rape of are certain people who display eloquence in adivasi women has become an everydfl{ favour of Panchayati Raj but the fact is that affair. The adivasis. who are brds of the Panchayat elections have not been held for forests, 'are not atbwed entry into the forests the past 18 years in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. today and they are no longer able to draw The attempts were made in this way to sustenance from the forest produce. Adiva- destroy grass-root lev~1 democracy. Wher- sis are facing attacks from all sides. Attacks ever Panchayats have been strengthened. are being made not merely on their fIVes but improvements have been noticed. Efforts a heinous conspiracy is being hatched to were made to strengthen the Panchayat destroy their culture and life-style" Under system in Karnataka and West Bengal and in such circumstance if an explosive situation these States it has been observed that when is created, it will not be surprising. What is a member of harijan and other deprived the proper solution in these circumstances? sections is eJected as a Sarpanch, a sense of The Government will have to make them self-respect and enhanced social status is masters of their lives and ensure that their generated with the result that the oppressed basic needs are satisfied. In Tripura, such an people gain oonfidence and get encourage- attempt was made in that direction and an ment to seek social justice. Therefore, autonomous council for the tribals was con- strengthening of the Panchpyat Raj System stituted there when the leftist Government and making it realistic fruitful should get top was there in power. The tribals of T ripura priority under the new Go:vemment. were given the power to frame their own laws for the preserving their culture. But the pres- The fourth aspect is education. Educa- ent autocratic Government of Tripura is tion is a major instrument for ensuring social dealing with the people of that State with justice. The indifferent attitude of our previ- highhandedness and continues to retain the ous Government towards education is evi- reigns of power in its hands but the most dent from the fact that only 2 per cent of the inimical thing, which has been done by this total Budget allocation was provided for Government against the tribais, is its attempt education and the result is that 80 per cent of to dissolve the autonomous tribal council the people of this country are trliterate. If the and harm the unity of the tribals and the non- position is reviewed. it will be found that the trbals. An 80 year old woman was raped majority of the illiterates are harijans and there. You would have never heard such a adivasis. However, State Government of thing before. Tribal women are raped there KeraJa spends 45 per cent of its budget by the Government officials and the police. Is outlay on education and Government of West this ;s way to make them progress? We will Bengal allocates 23 per cent for this pur- have to think over it. It is also essential that pose. Education has been made free upto an autonomous council is constituted for the 12th class and there ;s no discrimination on tribals in the predominantly tribal areas and the basis of caste etc. The new Government its entire control is given in their hands. I am must also pay due attention in this direction. sure that the new GovemmentwiU take steps It is not necessary to impartthe Doon School in that direction. type of exclusive education. On the other hand. what we need is to concentrate on ~ the end I would like to say that a new imparting education to the maximum num- wind is blowing in the whole country on the ber of deprived people. To make due provi- issue of this amendment which has been sion in this regard should be a major priority introduCed here in the House today. Here, as of the new Government. So far as the adjya~ the members of this House, we are talking of sis are concerned, their pitiable condition fi reservation bUt outside this House, there .. known to everybody. They are being as- anti-reservation agitations taking place in saulted from all sides. The corrupt officers, various parts of the oountry. There are veri- the moneylenders, the forest contraclOrs ous fack)rs underlying these aglation. One 149 Const (62nd Amdt.) Bill PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKAl Canst. (62nd Amdt.) Btll 150.

reason may be misunderstanding and the Parliamentary Affairs Minister will make a other r~ may be that people have been suggestion. misled or misguided. It was only yesterday , that we heared some people here claiming THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION accnIades for gracefully handing over the AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF reigns of government. But this fact is that PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. they have become impatient after having UPENDRA): Madam Chairman, I would like last power and now they are trying to stage to take the opinion of the House about this a come back some has or the other. Bill. Originally we wanted to take the voting

today itseH t but after consultation with vari- Certain Members of this House referred ous Party Leaders, the suggestion is that we to the speeches of some persons. But , will have the voting at 2.00 p.m. on Tuesday. would like to submit that the former member On that day we wilt have only one hour for from my constituency, who was also Gen- discussion, that is. from twelve to one and eral Secretary of the AU India Congress (I), one to two will be the Lunch hour. Some of said it not in his speech but released a that one hour time will be taken by the statement to the Press that now reservations Minister for his reply and so very little time on social basis were no more necessary. will be Jeft on Tuesday for discussion as Any reservation in this country should be such. There are a large number of Members made not on the basis of caste but on eco- who want to speak. H the House agrees, nomic basis. after the Private Member's Business, we can oontinue the Government Business from 6.00 If a senior leader of all India level makes p.m. onwards for an hour or one-and-a haH such an irresponsible statement, we will all hours to enable some more Members to have to bear its consequences. But the most speak. One or two Members can speak on vital factor, which is mainly responsible for Tuesday and after that the Minister will reply. this a",i-reservation movement, is the prob- The vote can be taken at 2.00 p.m. Madam. lem of terrible unemployment this country is you can take the opinion of the House. facing today . Today there are 3 crore unemployed youths in our country who are regis- MR. CHAIRMAN: I hope the House tered with the Employment Exchanges. There agrees to this proposal. are 13 crore other youths in the rural and urban areas who are without employment. SHAI tNDRAJrT GUPTA (Midnapore): However it is a welcome statement by the The hon. Minister for Parliamentary Affairs present Government that they are going to has made a proposal which. underthecircum- include the right to work in our Fundamental stances, I think, is more practicabfe than Rights. We welcnme this step of the Govem- trying to finish the whole thing today. But, in ment. This is a right step in the right direction that case, I would request that the next but it needs to be made effective. The unem- speaker-normally in the order of speakers ployed have to be provided employment. it would be from my party, Shri Bhogendra The employment opportunities should be Jha-may kindly be allowed to speak on increased to the optimum level so that anti- Tuesday. It will not be possible for him to social elements may not take exploit the speak today after 6.00 p.m., because he has situation and get an opportunity to incite the to go away for some other work. Earlier. we youth. were told that the whole thing would be over by 3.30 p.m. Madam Chairman, with these words I conclude and once again welcome the intro- SHAI P. UPENDRA: Those parties who duction of this Bilt. have not spoken today. can be given tums on Tuesday. but those who are repeatin~ (English) that is the second and the third sppalturs MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, it is time for from the same par1y can be askecfic speak taking up Private Member's Business. The after 6.00 p.m. 1 hat would be faw. 151 Res. reo Conversion DECEMBER 22, 1989 R/y. Lines in 152 of Narrow GaugljJ Vidarbha Region

MR. CHAIRMAN: So, we begin the and to take immediate steps for the Private Members' Business now and after it conversion of all narrow gauge railw~ is finished at 6.00 p.m., we shall resume the lines in the region into broad gauge for discussion. its rapid development."

SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (Tripura ( Jnte"uptions) West): No, no, we cannot agree to that. After 6.00 p.m. you ca!1 speak and you can con- [English] tinue the House with your Members, we have no objection. MR. CHAIRMAN: Order please. Please be seated and please'do not go on talking. SHRI P. UPENDRA: After all the Par- This is also his maiden speech in the shape ties have finished, then one by one repetition of speaking on his Resolution. I appeal to the will come. We follow the same procedure Members to be quiet and let the business of now. the House proceed quietly.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, we havetotake [ Trans/ation] up Private Member's Business. SHRI SUDAM DATTATRYA DESHMUKH (Amravati): The resolution which I have moved in this House has been 15.35 hrs. the issue on the basis of which the people have elected me. This issue has been a RESOLUTION REGARDING CONVER- burning problem of my constituency. The SION OF NARROW GAUGE RAILWAY railway line I am talking about, is in Vidarbha LINES INTO BROAD GAUGE IN region of Maharashtra and connects Brar. VIDARBHA REGION OF. This is the region of black soil, which is moSt MAHARASHTRA suitable for growing cotton. This railway line was constructed to export cotton from this [English] region to Lancashire in Britain as the Civil War broke out in America, resulting in stop- MR. CHAIRMAN: Before we take up page of export of cotton to Britain. With a the Resolution of Shri Sudam Deshmukh, view to facilitate export of cotton the State of we have to fix the time for this resolution. Sarar was taken over by the Britishers. But Shall we fix 2 hours? I think all are agreeable later on no attention was paid to this railway to this. line, rather its condition was made miserable. Instead of bringing about some im- I call upon Shri Sudam Deshmukh to provements some of its wheels were dis- move his resolution. mantled and sent to Africa to help in the war operations there and the stations in the region

[T rans/ation] were also closed down. Shri Antulay I who spoke yesterday, had declared in the Mahar- SHRI SUDAM DATTATRYA ashtra state Assembly that he would be DESHMUKH (Amravati): Mr. Chairman, Sir} going to England to bring back to India the I beg to move: Bhawani sword of Shivaji Maharaj lying in a museum in England. I was also a Memberof . "This House takes serious note of the the State Assembly and I had requested to fact that about 250 kms. of narrow him to bring the wheels of the railway bogeys gauge railway track is still under pri- also alongwith the sword. Madam, this train vate ownership in the Vidarbha region covers a distance of 50 kilometres only but of Maharashtra and urges upon the takes 6 hours to cover it. In this age of high Government to nationalise the same speed vehtcles, its speed is so slow that 153 Res. reo Conversion PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) Rly. Lines in 154 of Narrow Gauge Vidarbha Region

even a cycle rider can beat it. There is no Maharashtra Assembly but it is regretted factory for manufacturing its engine and the that although the Maharashtra Government day these engines go out of order, this train had recommended to the Central Govern- " will have to be hauled with the help of bul- ment time and again, the conversion of thi$ locks. The situation in the present decade of railway line was not included in the list of 80s is such that people in Delhi are moving priority. There also pressure works. There- on flyovers, Calcuttans are travelling in the fore, it is high time to discontinue that train. Metros and Bombayites are thinking of con- We demand only 2 things. My first demand is structing a tunnel in the sea. But it is surpris- that this route should be nationalised and the ing that even today after independence we rolling stock of Killick and Co. should be are having this slow train in our region and it placed in the museum. Shri George Fernan- continues to be owned by a British Com- dese should take initiative and credit for pany, viz. Killick & Co. although it is a core doing it. I feel that the p'rocess of nationalisa- sector. The railways give this company an tion should be expedited because without if amountofRs.10Iakheveryyear. Whydowe the conversion of narrow gauge line into pay this amount? All the things are managed broad gauge line is not possible. Therefore. by the Central Railway. After all what has I appeal and request all the han. Membersto been done by the owners of this company plead with the han. Minister of Railways for because they have not provided any facility the conversion of the narrow gauge line into of platform, drinking waterorthe ticket check- broad gauge line. ing staff? Moreover, the trains also start late and even its terminus is not definite. Why Our district is the largest cotton growing these had the arrangement with this com- area. Inspite of its being a district. it does not pany not been discontinued despite such a have the facility of train or reservation. I do miserable condition of its services and why not know as to which railway administration we have been made to bear with all the is responsible for this situation and why it is problems? It is beyond my comprehension doing so? Is that train worth being called a as to why Government is paying an amount train? Though I have all praise for Madhav of Rs. 5-10 lakh to this company? The Rail- Rao Scindia but he concentrated on facilities way Board had taken a policy decision that in G,una. Anyway, I do not want to delve on conversion of narrow gauge fines into broad that issue. gauge lines would be given top priority, but nothing has been done so far in this regard. What I mean to say is that in view of aJi None of the railway ministers have even these things, the Government should think cared about it because they concentrated on of the nationalisation of this route and I hope the provision of broad gauge lines in their that a declaration to this effect will be made own constituencies and we were left to bear in the House. With these words, I conclude. with the narrow gauge. [English] AN. HON. MEMBER: Prof. Dandavate MR. CHAIRMAN: was also the Minister of Railways. Resolution moved:

SHRI SUDAM DATTATRYA "This House takes serious note of the DESHMUKH: I am not talking of only Prof. fact about 250 kms. of narrow gauge Dandavate but of all the Railway Ministers. railway track is still under private What' mean to say ;s that since there was no ownership in the Vidarbha region of pressure on the Government, no conversion Maharashtra and urges upon the of this railway line was undertaken by them. Government to nationalise the same and to take immediate steps for the Mr. Speaker, Sir, why is it that today we conversion of all narrow gauge railway are denied even the basic amenities? We lines in the region into broad gauge for have repeated'v raised this issue in the its rapid development." 155 Res. 1fI. CGnwJtsb7 DECEMBER 22. 1989 ~.. u.siD 156 01 NanD. Gauge VitadJha Asgion SHRI MAHADEO RAO StlWAHKAR who are _ poortrblls. (Chinu): I beg ., fIKW8: Secondly, if this Naupada-Par- That in the MSOIIIIion.- _~aftarconvar sian irm1hatof broad-gauge. is extended by ....-mas in the region- approxmately .atter 50 Kms.1engCh to the industrial town of Rayagada, it wit form an men·" 8..g_. ~-Gondia-Chan ideal Ioop-ine particularly for goods traffic drapur raiway ina,,· (1 ) movement from the Western Regions a wei as the industrial town of Rayagada 10 That in 1he resoIution,- the Parad~ Port in Orissa State. At present, the sluation is that aD the goods traffic from add 3t1he end- W6Slem Orissa particularly from the industrial town of Rayagada 15 transported by the -and work on this should start latest by Raf.u'-VlZianagaram nne and generally tor ApriIl!! 1990.· (2) proximity reasons it f&oods the ab"eady busy port of Vasakhapatnam. thereby delaying MR CHAIRMAN: You can speak later. maritinse cargo transpofta4'tion. So, if this alernatiYe proposed loopbne isc:xmstructed, SHRI GOPt NATH GAJAPATHI (Bet- most of the goods traffC can be diverted by harnpw): Madam Chairperson~ I am indeed this Ioopine to the not much used Paradeep grateful tor this opportunity granted to me ;n Port in Orissa and that also wouid inv04ve a COI.'18dian with my saying a few words for saving of alleast 200 kms. in freight. 1he mnuotsion of the 13ariakhemundi light RaillfaJ which is the styte tor the narrow- To sum UP. I woukf urge and appeal to gauge section now existing between our han. Railway MinISter and the Ministry of in the RaDways, Government of India, to actively consider this much fel and long awailed neadcltt.conversoo of the Parlakhemondi In continuaIion of our hon. Member Shri light r.aiway section and also the extenstOn Sudam Deshmukh·s plea for the oonversion of the section from GOIT''''Pl'f to Rayagada 101 01 althe narrow-gauge sections in the ooun- reasons which will help matnJy the tribats of 1ry .., broad-gauge. this specif«: issue of that region and aIsn hetp the dweiopmenl of 1he conwasion of the existing ine between the generaIy under-devetoped cfistrid of . is much Ganjam. _ailed and and it is a blg-fett need. This particular Steidl of raiway line ~ 91 Kms. I am again most grateful for being IangIh was laid br the tate Shri Krushna granted this wonderiulopportunity and would Chandra Gaiapathi who happened to be my finaDy conclude ~ saying that this ~ grand-faIhar and also the first Chief ~ IenI ad of the Government ~ Incia wootd d the StaledOrissa This railtuBII ine which greatly hetplhetrbats and the dowrHmdden .as laid and completed in 1he 1930s cost a of the under-developed disIrid Qf Ganjam. prMle indviduaI 1M him ~ a sizeable auIar mAs. 151a1chs.. Now, wlh the aJnSid- [T~ ....iller. as a in the population of that area as ... as .. increase in goods 1raIr1C the SIR HlJKlAa)E() MARA YAH YADAV e.tsting nanow-gauge railway tine hardly (Siam_hi): Madam,. God has endo .ad me .... the pI8S8IC day ~ and wiIh a voice powerful enough ~ reach tiItIfWt dItmaIlds. Hence, the 00fW8ISi0n of this comer. "'Iow-ga'ege sadbt. inIo a bIoad-gauge has been awpec;tad by the people of that ...... , I' oped region at Ganjam District 157 Res. 18. Qmvers!on PAUSA 1. 1989 (SAKA) Rly. Unes in 158 of Narrow Gauge Vldarbha Region to a particular region only. I have the same lams on this account. The Govemment should problem as he has. My problem can also be have a uniform policy for the entire country solved if hone Shri George Fernandes gives and not for Vidarbha alone. Science has me a bit of his attention. lke the Vldharba made tremendous progress, satellites have region, the Kosi Gandak area of Bihar, from been laUnched but when we travel by train in where I and hone Shri Bhogendra Jha come, North Bihar, we feel as if we have gone back is also very backward. Places where the to pre-bullock cart age. You never know people are affluent and good looking, have when and where the engine will fail or the adequate food, clothing and shelter, own coach will derail, collapse and the passen- fertile land and reap rich harvest, the rail- gers will be thrown off the track. Efforts ways run efficient train services with beauti- should be made to provide an efficient rail- ful coaches and where the people are not way system· in that area. In Bihar a private good looking, poor ana hapless, have no company was running a train service be- land of their own and suffer from natural tween Arrah and Sasaram·. But now that calamities like flood and drought, the bogies track has been removed. The GovernmeQt of the trains are worn out and dilapidated and should consider this also. The metre-gauge sometimes even without a roof. At other nne between Fatuha and Islampur should places trains derails or overturns in an acci- also be converted into broad-gauge. Factors dent but I come from an area where an entire like the area being a place of tourist interest, train plunged into the river due to a storm. a centre of pilgrimage for Jains and ven ue for This happened near Saharsa From this world famous fairs, should also be taken into incident we can make out the condition of the acoount. I request the han. Railway Minister coaches, the track and the bridges. A former to convert metre-gauge lines into broad gauge hone Railway Minister made political capital in Samastipur, Darbhanga, Sitamarhi, Nir- out of laying the foundation stones of new mali and Jayanagar. Hon. Minister of Rail- .. projects, flagging off new trains and sanc- ways, Shri George Fernandes has said that tioning conversions of meter gauge lines into gauge conversion of one kilometre of railway broad gauge ones. But in physical terms line entails an expenditure of Rs. 75 lakh. I nothing was done. Therefor.e, I would re- have never said that the expenditure would quest the hone Minister to get the matter be any less. The Government has the neces- looked into as to why his predecessor did not sary funds, so let them be spent on the complete the projects. It does not matter development of backward and flood-prone whether the foundation stone of the project areas. Why should an efficient railway sys- was laid by his predecessor or a former tem be limited to cities like Bombay, Kanpur. Railway Minister or a late Railway Minister, Allahabad, Varanasi or Calcutta? Why should the Janata Oaf Government should fulfill an the scope of developmental expenditure be the promises made by the Railways. The limited to the people of these cities alone? matter relating to the construction of a broad- People living in backward areas, for whom gauge line between Samastipur and the railways are the means to transport their Oarbhanga is pending. Hon. Shri Bhogendra agricultural produce to the Mandi to get Jha and I have been agitating for this every remunerative price also have a right to share year. Members belonging to an parties, par- 1he funds of the exchequer. H they do have ticularly the leftist, have gone to jail for this right a sound raiJway system should be acceptance of their demands. Late Shri Lalit provided to them also. Narain Mishra was killed in a bomb explosi- tion at Samastipur railway station. He had a The late Shri Lalit Narain Mishra ap- dream that there should be a broad-gauge proved the construction of the Sakri-Has- Jine from Samastipur to Jayanagar via anpur railway line for' which land was ac- Oarbhanga. After his death, that project has quired without payment of compensation. remained incomplete. There is a broad-gauge Our land which provided us food and cloth- line upto Samastipur and further on it is ing and was our only source of livelihood was metre-gauga. The people face lot of prob-- taken away and ultimately the project did not 159 Res. reo Conversion DECEMBER 22, 1989 Rly. Lines in 160 of Narrow l;auge Vidarbha Region

[She Hukumdeo Narayan Yadav] ter Shri George Fernandes here in this august House that he should fulfill the promises that progress beyond earth work. Can there be a he has made to the people. This will link greater crime than this? So now it becomes Forbesganj, Nirmali, Jayanagar and Si- the responsibility of the present Railway tamarhi.lfthe 8agaha-Chhitauni railway line Minister, who has gone to jail several times is made operational, Varanasi will be linked while leading agitations with us. Today he with the border area of Bihar. This area is has the opportunity to fulfil the demands that also strategic grom the point of view of he once raised himself. He should make security. There are no motorable roads there. good use of the position he is in today and So a railway network is a must for these complete all the pending projects. backward areas.

Then there is the case of Sitamarhi The hone Member's Resolution relates which is a place of religious, cultural and to a particular region only. But this issue has historical significance as it is the birth place a wider scope. Railways are to our country of Sitae Sitamarhi is visited by people from all what arteries and veins are to the human over the world but the railway facilities there body. Railways have a major role to play in are deplorable. The Railways are spending the country's economic development. If we crores of rupees on modernisation of railway are to strengthen our economy, we must stations. Since Sitamarhi is an important formulate a programme to strengthen our place on the railway network from the point railway system. This is what I want to say to of view of tourism, I request the hone Railway the han. Railway Minister. Minister to modernize the Sitamarhi railway station. Facilities like r~tiring rooms for pas- A number of trains have been cancelled sengers do not exist there at present. I hope in our area under the influence of the bus- the han. Minister will not allow Sitamarhi owners on the members of ruling party. A railway station to continue to be a picture of number of them are very close to the leaders neglect. of the opposition. Trains were cancelled to allow the bus operators to earn profits. I Thirdly, Bihar is a border State. There- would request you that the train from Hajipur fore, the construction of the railway line to Narkatiaganj should be immediately re- starting from Samastipur and passing along stored. the border via Jayanagar and Mirmali to Sitamarchi should be undertaken. From Si- You have visited Maniharighat where tamarhi the line should be connected with many people lost their Jives because of sink- Raxau!. The work on the 8agaha-Chhitauni ing of a steamer. As regards payment of railway bridge on this line should be com- compensation to the victims, nothing has pleted. been done by the Railway Department so far. The owner of the steamer has aJso not [DR. THAMBI DURAl in the Chai~ been punished. Why did he operate a defective steamer? The people lost their lives 16.00 hrs. because of the arrogance of the steamer owner and the officials. The guilty should be There was an agitation for the construction given rigorous punishment. They should not of this bridge which the han. Minister had go scot free. himself led. We had launched an agitation under his leadership in Gorakhpur. May I You should exercise the same force in know from the han. Railway Minister whether issuing orders which you display in your the Bagaha-Chhitauni railway bridge will be speech in a public meeting. You are a dis- completed or not? ciple of Dr. Ram Manohar Lohia. He always emphasised that there should be no differ- I am reminding the hone Railway Minis- ence in profession and practice. You should 161 Res. reo Conversion PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) Rly. Lines in 162 of Narrow Gauge Vidarbha Region show the firmness of your voice in your is a station named Gondumari on this line. action also as Minister of Railways. It is only Sometime back orders were given that a halt then, people will realise that you mean what should be provided there in place of the you say. station, which should be closed. I contacted the Minister of Railways in this regard and I PROF. MAHADEO RAO SHIWANKAR was assured that the railway station will (Chimur): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I have moved continue. I have written him a letter also. I an am~ndment regarding the conversasion would like to thank h;m for a good beginning. of Jabalpur-Gondia-Chandrapur narrow Mr. Speaker, Sir, the rich deposits of copper gauge line into broad gauge, theworkon this and manganese available in these tribal and line should be started from April, 1990. The backward areas can' be exploited, if this Chandrapur-Gondia-Jabalpur line was railway line is immediately converted into commissioned in 1895 but it has not been broad gauge line. Sir, this is my basic amend- completed safar. There are derailments and ment. From April 1990, the work should be accidents which results in the loss of life and started on the railway line and the survey property of the people. Two and a half years work should also be taken up immediately. ago, the railway culvert collapsed and fell Allocation should be made in the Budget for into the river in Balaghat district. Hundreds of this railway line. I hope that the House will people were killed at that time. Mr. Chair- adopt this Amendment. With these words I man, Sir, this is the history of this line. This conclude. railway line passes through Mahaj Khand, where there are copper mines, Bhandara [English] district, which produces bamboos and tim- ber and 8alaghat distri{;t, which abounds in SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL (Latur): Sir, I manganese are and links Chandrapur Dis- propose to be very very brief. Mr. George trict which gives us coal and wood. Sir, this Fernandes is the Railway Minister and Mr. entire area is backward. It is a Scheduled Madhu Dandavate is the Finance Minister in Tribe dominated area. The train takes 32 the Union CJovernment of India now. My hours to coverthe entire distance of approxi- constituenc~ Latur had an opportunity to mately 47 kms. You can very well in1agine receive thenl and heartheir views on turning from this as to how much time is wasted. If the narrow-gauge railways into broad-gauge this line is converted Into broad gauge, this railways. I was told that they had empha- line which links the central India with Andhra sised on turning the narrow-gauge railway Pradesh will run diagonally thereby reducing which goes from Latur to Mirag into the the distance by 200 kms. So, it is very broad-gauge railway. important to convert it into broad gauge. Mr. Chairman, Sir, this line starts from a place Now they have the authority to see that near Jabalpur-8alaghat which is a famous their demands are turned into realities. My place in India and run along the Kanha request, therefore, is that this demand of the National Park and Chandrapur National Park. people may be considered favourably and This is an important National Park of the the narrow-gauge railway may be turned into country. A survey of this railway line upto the broad-gauge. My request is that lhey Gondia-Jabalpur was conducted during the should not now put forward any excuse not Janata regime in 1978-79. During the last to do it. ten years, nothing has been done in this regard. So, first of all, the survey work of the The Government of Maharashtra has remaining sketch of Jabalpur-Gondia-Chan- agreed to extend a helping hand in this drapur railway line should be taken up matter. Some other steps also can be taken im mediately. to raise some funds for these purposes. The land with the railways can be auctioned to Sir, this railway line is in very bad shape. raise the funds. The land at Latur ;s veDj I would like to submit in this regard that there costly and a few crores of rupees can be 163 Res. reo Conversion DECEMBER 22, 1989 RIy. Lines in 164 of Narrow Gauge Vldarbha Region

[Sh. Shivraj V. Patiij been raising this matter for the last ten years in this House and bringing it to the attention raised for this purpose by auctioning the of the Government in various ways. There land. This matter can be considered care- was lot of agitation by the people of that area fully and an appropriate decision can be also but we have not succeeded. Thousands taken. It may be included in the Eighth FIV8 of people have to come to Calcutta daily. Year Plan and enough funds may be set From the Sunderbans. they have to come by aside for this purpose. There is a demand to boat, by rivers, up to Basirhat and then travel provide a railway line through this distrid to Calcutta But there are no electric trains. connecting Aurangabad to ParaH also. This There is only one through train. In the mom- also may be taken up. Tnere are the only ing. there is one through train running from points which I want to make. Basirhat to Calcutta and in the evening there " is one through train returning from Calcutta SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (Midnapore): to Basirhat which is totally inadequate to Mr. Chairman, with your permission, J take cope up with the traffic~ Thousand of people, this opportunity just for a few minutes to draw commuters are put to great inoonvenience the attention of myoid friend, the RaihNay because this train which is there is a very Minister to an anomalous position "'lhich very slow train. We have suggested to the exists in the suburban network of Railways Eastern Railway Administration that if they based in Calcutta. He is familiar, perhaps, cannot electrify this section immediately, more with Bombay than with Calcutta. But he they can at least increase the number of knows that it is a declared policy of the trains. They were saying that i1 will cost a lot Railway Board and the Railway Administra- of money and there is no money and so on. tion to see that the sub urban network of Instead of one train, even if there are two

Railways around these big cities is electri· trains either way t that will help the factory- tied so as to help the tens and thousands of goers, office-goers and other people im- daily commuters who come ~o the cities to mensely. But even that is not done on the earn their iivelihoo

SHRI MAHABIR PRASAD (8ansgaon): recommendations for the conversion of My point of order is that the Resolution has narrow gauge lines, particularly the impor- limited scope. tant sections, have not yet been implemented.

[English] I come from one of the backward districts, viz. Purulia, where there is a narrow It is limited to Maharashtra and Vidharba. gauge line, viz. Purulia-Kotshila line, about 31 Kms. long. I have been demanding its MR. CHAIRMAN : There is no point of conversion for the last ten years. This will order. We will take care of it. facilitate a direct link between Purulia and Bokaro. The survey was done in 1984, and ( Translation) the estimated cost at that time was only Rs. S crores. PROF. SHAILENDRANATH SHRIVAS- TAVA (Patna): Let others place their point of PROF. N.G. RANGA: (Guntur) Why view. Please listen to views of other is also. should your Government not make some contribution? [English] SHRI BASUDE8 ACHARIA: We had SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA (Bankura): also suggested that expenditure on the earth- Mr. Chairr-:~n, Sir, I support the Resolution work which might be required for the conver- moved by Shri Sudan Deshmukh in connec- sion of this line could be borne by the Zilla tion with conversion of narrow gauge line Parishad. That proposal was also made by into broad gauge in the Vidarbha region of the State Government, because out of the Maharashtra. It is an important line as stated 31 Kms., work has to be done only on 11 by the mover of the Resolution and this line Kms. For 20 Kms., no work is necessary. By though it is an important link has nct yet replacing the narrow gauge line, a broad been nationalised. So, this line needs to be gauge line can be laid. There is no major nationalised first and then this important link bridge work. of250kms. should be converted into a broad gauge. This will facilitate a link between the The estimate was made in 1984. Under two broad gauge sections. the present costs and prices, I think the estimate will be double, viz. Rs.8 crores or So, this important line is to be first na- RS.10 crores or Rs. 12 crores. It was for- tionalised and then the conversion of this warded to the Planning Com mission, but the narrow gauge line should be taken up. Planning Commission rejected it twice. I do not know why. There are a number of narrow gauge lines in Indian Railway.s. Even, there are a This is quite a remunerative project. number of lines whose management has The return on the capital investment on this % been taken over but those lines have not yet project is 10 • So, I urge upon the Railway been nationalised. There was one Commit- Minister to see that this important project viz. tee which was constituted long back called the conversion of Purulia-Kotshila narrow National Transport Policy Committee. This gauge line is taken up during the 8th five- oommittee had also made some recommen- year Plan. dations for the conversion of narrow gauge lines into broad gauge. Though the NTPC The other important railway lines are submitted its report long back, in 1980, its Ahmedpur-Katwah and Burdwan-Katwah. 169 Res. reo Conversion PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) Rly. Lines in 170 of Narrow Gauge Vidarbha Region

These two narrow gauge lines are very for rejecting the conversion of narrow gauge important. There is one important line viz. railway lines into broad gauge railway lines. Bankura-damodar River railway line which is If a proposal for conversion of metre-gauge in my constituency. The management of this line in Uttar Pradesh or Bihar is sent to the railway line was taken over long back, in Planning Commission, it calls forthe survey. 1966. The management was taken over, but Later on it is said that since it is not economi- this railway line was not nationalized. This cally viable the conversion of narrow gauge BOR railway line passes through rural Ben- into broQd gauge cannot be done. What I gal, and this is a very important railway line. want to say is that narrow gauge railway This line has not been nationalised, and it lines cannot become economically viable has not been converted. _The passenger until they are converted into broad guage trains are- still hauled by the age-old, aver- lines. That is why sanction is not granted for aged steam engines. conversion of various narrow gauge lines into broad gauge lines in Bihar. Most of the The distance between Ahmedpur and proposals have been rejected by the Plan- Katwa is I think 20-25 kms. The distance ning Commissiononthegroundthatthey are between Burdwan and Katwa is also less not economically viable. than 30 kms and 104 ·kms is the distance between Bidia-Bankura-Damodar-River rail- I would like to thank Shri Lalit Narain way line. It is a very important narrow-gauge Mishra for the conversion of largest narro'(\' railway line. The distance between Purulia gauge line from Barabanki to Samastipur and Portsilla ;s 31 kms. These are the impor- into broad gauge railway line, which has tant four narrow-gauge railway lines of the benefited crores of people in Bihar and Uttar State of West 8engal. These should be Pradesh. taken up during the Eighth Five Year Plan. The conversion of these four very important Our Railway Minister has undertaken narrow-gauge railway lines into broad-gauge intensive tours of Eastern Uttar Pradesh and railway lines will facilitate the link with the Bihar and is well aware of the backwardness other broad-gauge section. Railway line is of these areas. He has been elected thrice an important infrastructure. It will help indus- as Member of Parliament from Bihar. I hope trialisation of the area, the improvement of that he would help in changing the attitude of the economy of that area. So, I urge upon the the Planning Commission. So long as the Minister to see that these four important attitude or the perspective of the Planning railway lines of the State of West Bengal Commission is not changed, backwardness should be taken up during the Eighth Five in Bihar and Uttar Pradesh cannot be re- Year Plan. Thank you. moved. Shri Hegde has decided to grant Planning Commission a statutory states. He [ Trans/ation] must take this decision soon. Shri Hegde and Shri Dandavate should sit together and SHRl KALPNATH RAl : (Ghosi): Mr. decide about the conversion of these narrow Chairman, Sir, I support the Resolution gauge lines into broad gauge lines. I would moved by Shri Deshmukh. However; I re- like to cite an example. The approval for the quest the hon. Minister, Shri George Fern- conversion of narrow gauge line from Bhatn; andes to pay attention towards the submis- to Varanasi Into broad gauge line was ac- s;on made by Shri Hukumdeo Narayan corded in 1976 both by the Planning Com- Yadav regarding backward areas. Both, Uttar mission and the Railway Board. In 1976 the Pradesh and Bihar are backward States. project was estimated to cost Rs.13 crores, Planning Commission has its own yardsticks which has now increased to Rs.SO crores. 171 Res. Ie. Conversion DECEMBER 22, 1989 Afy. L.iIJes ., 172 01 Nam1w GatJge VirIaIfIha Region

(Sh.~RaJl araa to transport 1ha goods. In the same breath, they raise quarries whelhertalacom- TIt now Rs.62 crores have been spent on it munication faeRies, eIedronic telepholae but. is slit incompIate_What I want to say is axmang& and other infrastruduraI facBies that ongoing projects should be axnpJeted are available there or not. The first question expeditiously and it should be ensured that they raise is about broad gauge redway line. the new projects taken up by the Govern- Theretore, I MMJJd Ib to request that steps ment are completed within the estimated should be taken \0 mnvert narrow gauge cost and the stipulated period. Railways are raitway ine into broad gauge ina in Bihar the life line Of the country and 20 to 25 lakh and Eastern Uttar Pradesh which are the empbyeesof this organisation arewelkoown most backward areas of the countJy and to you. You have the beacon light of the have the lowest per capita income. labour movement in India Therefore, you have to think as to how the labour force can {Engish] be associated with the production and how the natural resources eX the country can be SHRI SAUARENDRA KUNOU exploited to make the country stronger. You (BaJasore): J am very ..~ that Mr. have to take initiative in this direction and it Oeshmukh has brought ~ Resolution. I will be possible only if a time bound pro- fully support the spirit of this Resolution. I am gramme is chalked out and concrete steps surprised to know that stiU a certain railway taken in this direction. line is in the private sedor. I hope that the Minister wiliook into it and also let us know My second slbmission is about Ch- why it is in the private sector stil. hitauni Bagha railway line about which the hon. Railway Minister has also given state- PROF. N.G_ RANGA : • has been a ment on several occasions. No other railway scandal. line is as important as this to conned Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. Many agitations were SHRI SAMARENDRA KUNOU : I aIJ' launched for this purpose and thousands of ~ that Prot. Ranga. an old veteran is social workers courted arrest. The c0mple- agreeing with me. J wiG be very glad if he tion d railway line will bring about a revolu- agree with my next request which I am going tionary .change in the life of the peopte of 10 make :0 the Minister in this forum. That is Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. In this connedion, about conversion of narrow gauge and rail I have had meetings with Shri Oandavate as line to broad gauge its extension in my State. wei as his,:¥'edecessor. Shri Dandavate had ordered the surve~ of this ~ in 1978 but you Orissa is one of the poorest States in know that without wilt power no WOfk can be India. everybody knows it In this poorest executed (/nterrupt«>ns}. State Mayurbhanj is one of the poorest of districts, almost same as Kalahandi district Thinly, , would like to say that Mhow or next to KaJahandi~ There is a narrow Shahganj nanow gauge line shoutd be ron- gauge ine known as Rupsa-_t warted into broad gauge fine because when- ina in Mayurbhanj district in Orissa-which ever a question of setting up of industries in we h;we been trying 10 get converted into a Eastern Uttar PracJ£.sh and Bihar is raised 10 broad gauge ina and also to get it extended gena-ate employment opportunities. the and cortileded wrth the main ine ~ pubic sector and the industriaists both ref- Bombay 10 Kharagpur. Now this railway tine use 10 do so. They ask whether there is any is runnW1g to adistanced about 50 kills. The broad gauge railway los and airport in that extansian would be hardIr at"Otfi: 40 tcMs 173 Res.. 18. ConveIsDJ PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Fly. LkJes in 174 ofNanow~ Vldatbha Region more. • this is joined with 8bmbay-Khar- Dandavate. who as the RaIway Minister agptw ina. then all trains coming to Madrasll during the Sixth lok Sabha, prepared a Puri or Paradeep from Bombay side wilt blueprint for oonstruction of this line. Had the save about 100 KMs. "fhe goods trains car- Janata Government been there for another rying minerals from Orissa mines to Par- three montHs. he would have laid the f0un- adeep port can go by a route, which will be dation construction of the railway. But shorter by about 100 KMs. Sir. you witt be unfortunately the Janata Government taled surprised to know that the MUTe is paying and this railway ina ooukt not beconstruded. As 201- extra per tonne of iron ore for trans- I request the Railway Minister to bring out porting it from Orissa mines to Paradeep that btueprintfrom lile _.... ,", ~ ... "" wherein it is because it goes in a circuitous route. hidden and lay t"e f ., d this 5ne within six months. , have D~~'~'''' ~\': i'iing letters Sir, Orissa is one of the most backward to our former Railway Min!SterMr. Madhavrao States and we have to improve the economic Scindia He never mention aboutthe scheme condition of Orissa. This cannot be done or btue print which was prepared during the without improving its oommunication and Janata period. For the construction of this transport systems. My friend Mr. Bhagya fine, in order to meet your financial diffICUl- Govardhan, an important Adivasi leader, ties, , assure you that 1 wilt give you 1,000 who has come from Mayurbhanj joins with volunteers who win wor1< free for about a me and says that we must urge before the month.... (lntenuptions). Government to convert this narrow gauge line and extend this rajJway Hne. The cost PROF. N.G. RANGA : Give a piece of factor will be nominal because already a line land also. is existing. You are taking out 90 pounds rail and some of the slippers from the main line SHRI SAUARENORA KUNOU: H it is because you are strengthening it to run fast necessary~ we will give the land also. Kindly trains. You are selling them to the contrac- heip us to get thjs line. I am reminded of one tors. T.hese materiats (X)uld be used. in coo- very important incident. Marshal TIto, who vertJng this narrow gaues line. was the President of Yugostavia went to th8 Belgraie Unrversity and exhorted the stu- Another thing. i would like to mention dents and said: ., do not have money. Come here is about the poiicy to be adopted is and build the roads from the port to the laying new lines. Unless yoo change the capitar. Years back when Yugoslavia was present poticy of laying new railway lines, the under threat of an attack from Soviet Russia. backward State cannot be deveioped. The thousands came and boil the roads. Here so called viability needGd to construct oow we will provido ona thousand voluniaers railway lines cannot be achieved by poorer who will work free tor about a month. Kindly states. Therefore, my suggestion is that announce the oonstruc1ion ot this raitway where the per capita income is low or below line and inaugurate the construction of this the rumnaJ average, where the per hectare railway Hne also. While saying this, I will fail ard per capita railway line is less and the in my duty if f do not say abour two or three areas which are mostly inhatited by Adiva- matters in this connectior.s Sambatpur-Cul- ~ Harijans and backward people. priority tack railway line again has been made a should be given to lay railway line. In Orissa show piece by the former Congress Govern- 60 per cent of the people are Adivasis. ment. They promised that this railway line Harijans and backward. will be completed within three or four years. But it has now been IiIlgeri'1) for years and I am thankful m my friend Prof. Madhu money is co.'11ing just in drops Narhing 175 Res. r9. Conversion DECEMBER 22, 1989 Rly. Unes in 176 of Narrow Gauge Vidarbha Region

[Sh. Samarendra Kundu] backward. Economically activity is in a very low key in the backward areas. As a result of substantial has been done. This is one of the this the work of laying new railway lines in the very important lines because it goes through backward areas does not progress. one of the important arteries area of Orissa. Consequently, States like Bihar and Mr. Ghani Khan Choudhary built a rail- Uttar Pradesh which are densely populated way line upto Diga in West Bengal which is have to suffer. The former Railway Ministers only two KMs away from Orissa border. The belonging to Bihar and Uttar Pradesh adopted distance between Diga and Jaleswar on an impartial outlook in the matter of laying Orissa side is 40 KMs and the traffic is heavy new railway lines and their conversion. They in this sector. People squeeze themselves tried to ri~e above regionalism. That is why into buses and even travel on the roots of these two States have below average net- buses. The people of Orissa want that the work of railway lines despite being thickly line upto Digha should be extended upto populated and vast in area. I would like to tell Jaleswar. I have also written 10 the Minister the hon. Minister of Railways that we are about it. If these three things are done to prepared to land strong support to him, if he begin with, we will think.that an achievement vigorously pursued our case with the Plan- has been made by the Railway Ministry and ning Commission and the Finance Minister. therefore we wish whole-heatedly all well to If you do this, believe me you will become a the Railway Minister. The hon. Minister is an hero amongst us. Shri Hukumdeo Narayan able leader, a visionary and a man of action was just now saying that you also launched who can actually get things done. We expect agitations for these lines and went to jail a quick results from him. number of times. If you fail to complete these lines even now, we shall have to face difficult Thank you very much for giving me the times. I was telling somebodys that by the opportunity to speak. time you relinquish the office of the Railway Minister all your hair might turn grey. [ Translation] [English] SHRI HARISH RAWAT (Almora): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the Railway Minister's job is a MR. CHAIRMAN: Already he is having difficult one. Whenever a discussion on grey hair. Railways ;s held, every hon. Member wants to draw the attention of the Railway Minister. SHRI HARISH RAWAT: There are still Similarly, through this Resolution I also take some black hair in between. this opportunity to draw the attention of Shri Fernandes towards the problems of my area. [Translation]

Sir, now almost all of our hon. Friends Mr. Chairman, Sir, today our criteria have made their points for laying new railway should be to identify those areas where lines or converting the narrow gauge lines railway lines are needed most and these into broad gauge lines in the backward ar- areas should be developed. The Govern- eas. My friend, Shri Kalpnath Rai has made ment has made negligible allocation for the a strong point that the Planning Commission areas which are rich in natural resources. takes economic viability as a criterion for They are not being utilised fully in the na- laying new lines and due to this the back- tional interest. This is because I feel the ward areas continue to remain economically transport system is in a very baeftward stage. 177 Res. 19. Conv9rsion PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Rty. Lines in 178 of Na"ow Gauge Vidarbha Region

I would urge you to plead our cause. Believe Resolution moved by Shri Deshmukh. me, majority of the han. Members in the House would plead the cause with the Plan- SHRI MANDHATA SINGH(Lucknow): ning Commission and the Finance Ministry . Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am grateful to Shri Deshmukh, who brought forward this Reso- Mr. Chairman, Sir, not even a single lution and provided notonlyto me but also to new railway line has been provided in about several other han. Members of this House, six districts in my Parliamentary constitu- an opportunity to be posted with some infor- ency and the state of affairs is the same as mation. I was not aware that railways still the Britishers had left. We made earnest existed in the private sector. I also hail from efforts, and with great difficulty got the sur- the same area about which Shri Kalpnath vey work of two railway lines completed Rai was saying:- during the days of Shri Ghani Khan Ch- oudhury and Shri Madhavrao Scindia. I [English] request that funds may be provided to conduct survey on Tanakpur-Ghat Bageshwar about the most populous part of the and Ram Nagar-Mikiasen-Chaukhutia rail- country, that is, Eastern U.P. and Bihar. But way lines. As soon as. the survey work is why forget Orissa and Bengal? completed the Planning Commission should be asked to give permission for the construc- [ Translation] tion work so that our hopes are not belied by the Government. The discussion started from the problems of Maharashtra and Shri Rawat through Secondly, my han. friend, Shri Pal who his amendment extended it upto the hill comes from Nainital may be aware that the areas of Uttar Pradesh. As a matter of fact, foundation stone of Rampur-New Haldwani the entire House is grateful to Shri Deshmukh railway line which is in his constituency had who, by raising this vital issue through his been laid by late Shrimati Indira Gandhi. Resolution, provided~" of us an opportunity There is great pleasure on him now. Hon. to raise their problems, whether it was about Member! when I anl pleading your case, perishable commodities of Calcutta, as why are you worried. Since you will not say mentioned by comrade Indrajit Gupta or anything in this regard, I am pleading your other things referred to by Shri Kalpnath Raj case. I:am sitting in front of you. I am making and others. I would not like to go into details. a point on your behalf. The construction work It is my sacred duty to express by thanks to on Rampur-New Haldwani Railway line has him. Secondly, I hope the hon. Minister of started. Our Government had sanctioned Railways, who was associated with us in As.S crores for this work. Now it is a chal- several labour movements and has partici- lenge for the ruling party during the 1990-91 pated in many agitations for laying new rail- financial year. To begin with, you need at way lines and djsmantling also wi" under- least Rs.1 0 crores for this work as you have stand the problem. made big promises during the election. If it is not possible to do so, at least enhance the SHRI HAAISH RAWAT: It was just a slip amount by 1 1/2 times to save your face. At of tongue. least As. 7.5 crores must be allocated so that half of the railway line is completed. Mr. SHRt MANDHATA SINGH: This much Chairman, Sir. I appreciate your problem. is permissible in Parliamentary etiquette He Several hen. friends want to speak. Hence, was instrumental in dismantling thf' r'ltlway I conclude here and extend my support to the lines and he organised strikec: in ~ne Aail- 179 Res. 18. Conwasion DECEMBER 22. 1989 Rrr. LhBs in 180 of Nanow Gauge VdIrbba Region

[Sh. Mandhata Singh) argument ~ acoIlOI1'Iic viability. Shri RawaI said that the erBe House is wih you and you ways. Fortunatety. today he is incharge of lead us.. Thepoirtofeconomicviabililymn.s the departmenL Hence, I can cal tWn both a up when plans are formulated in tenns ~ comrade and an hone Minister. Now t I hope popuIa1bn, territory, economic needs and he would tell us the reasons why people like aspir2tions. The han. tKJnister of Fnance us to remain in dark? What is the conspiracy has also come. I wet*1 like to tel him also behind it. In my childhood I heard the rail- that economic viability is a wooden headed ways being referred to· as East Indian Rai- question. Our new Minister is very dynamic. way Company. I also heard the name of He would Iilerate the system from the grips B.N.W.R. which used to be the private of bureaucracy and take effective steps far oompany of the Britishers. I thought that it setting up a welfare state in accOfdance with was the Martin company. I Saw in Bihar that the peopIe·s aspirations. The entire House the narrow gauge fine constructed by the will lend its support to Shri George to co:om- Bum and Martin Company was dismanUed. plish this task. Y./as it possille to nationalise it? The railway ines passing through Arah and Palna have SHRI PIYARE lAl HANOOO been dismantled. It is only now that I come to (Anantnag): Sir. the discussion in the House know that many areas in the aruntry still which started from the-question of nationaf... have no raiway ine or have narrow gause saloo of a narrow gauge railway nne, has lines only. I came to know aI these things proliferated to raiWays in each and evert from several han. Members. Unfortunatety, state. Several han. Members spoke on the no hone Member from the south has stood sub;ect. From the discussion on a small up. I knew about the Nizam Raitway only in railway line, the matter cukninated in dis- the South. When a railway accident took cussing the entire gamut of the railways. A place in the south and Shastriji resigned. I lot has been said about me1re gauge and came to know that railways were there in the narrow gauge lines. But I shaD restrict myseI South in the private sector also.• the intor- to Jammu and Kashmir. The hone Minister of maOOn in incomplete the han Minister should Railways is aware that the last rail head is collect tnformation in this regard and inform Jammu and it did not move any further. The us. He shoulti also let us know as to how construction work of Jammu-Udhampur rai1- many railway lines are there in the private way line, a cistance d 40 to 50 kilometres sector and how many foreign companies onty, has been going on for last 9 years ar\d have been given a free hand to expkjl it is not known as to when it would be country·s economy in this sedor and how completed. I would like to request hone Shri much capital have they invested in it? As George Fernandes to visit the construction regards the broad gauge lines. Shri ~ site at his leislM'e and ascertain the time by Rai has made a point about the economic which the line-which has already taken 9 viability. This Vf90den headed phraseology years-wil reach Udhampur and the people was a aeatiln of the Brilishers. At the time of the city will have the privilege of having a of laying raitway lines, they did not take the rait ink to the city. It is also often saidthattis economic viabiIiIy into oonsideration. They line wit be eXlendad lII*> Srinagar and at had laid the railway lines just to enslave the times we also hear that the survey work on country and move 1heir troops from north to this Ina has also bean completed. is so, south. Today the Government is a welare I wet*1 make an earnest appeal t)I. 1he hone Government and it wants to do welare of the Minister to reopen the SUMI¥ report 3nd people. Hence this PaIiamenI will not aIow clean lhedustgalhaedon it andtakP. fUfther 1he Planning Commission to put foIW8Id the steps 10 povide tal Ina to .,~ udOpIe of 181 Res.. 18.. eo..ws;o" PAUSA ,,, 1989 (SAKAl Fly. Liles in 182 d ,.".,,_ Gauge V~Region

KashInW' in view of 1heir poor economic K3lihar to Siiguri should be extended upID conditiDn. I have expressed these views Madarihat and this entire line should be becaaase of the ResoItdion moved bt my doubled Adivasi area is quite neglected. han. friend Shri Deshmukh. I it is posstie to Adivasis are called scheduled castes. This exIand the railway network beyond Jammu, area is predominantty inhabited bv Adivasis. i,. nat only pt'CM! baneftiaJ to the State, Therefore, it is very necessary to double the bdt also m the whole of country. rajtwa)' line in this area It will facilitate development of Alipurduar area. At present steam SHRI PIYUS TIRAKY (A~rduar): Mr. tocomotive is attached to the train in AIipur-

Chairman. Sirt I thank you tor gMng ~ an duar. It should be replaced by diesel 1ocomo- opportunity to speak on the conditions of the tive so as to provide relief to the people. ra!lways in the North Eastern region. Sir. Shri George Fernandes is aware of the fact that SHRI JAGPAl SINGH (Haridwar): uf. the North Eastern regoo is the most back- Chairman, Sir, t would fike to thank Hon'ble ward region and it has not maee any signifi- Shn Deshmukh for drawing the attention of cant progress since Independence. Hadthere the House towards a big probiem facing the been no war wtth Chin~ perhaps even roads country. He hasdernanded that narrowga'-lge wouJd have not been constructed in tt-.e Hnes should be converted into broad gauge North-Ea.stern reglOO~ Foflowing the war with Jines. Before I proceed further. I would like to Ch~ railway line was constructed there thank the Hen"hIe Prime Mintster for entrust- speediy and t thank the Government lot' ing the charge of the biggest Department of taying dot.rbie track, in patches, ;0 the area the Government to such a person of Janata right from Assam to Bomdiia whdllinks the Oaf I who has been struggling for years for entire bonier in ttl's region. But there is a the welfare of the railway employees and need to pay more anenOOn towards this has even been failed for that. I woutd like to because ~ traffic is particuiMy heavy in thank Shri George Fernandes forthis_ This is this region. MoreconYerSion of narrow gauge tor this reason that 25-30 lakh railway em- line intO broad gauge 1infl-lWOUld not do. b is ptoyees and 80 crore people of this muntty necessary to dOuble the railway track in the have great expectations from him. I hope the area. Raiway line upto Siliguri has been demand raised by our coIeague Shri doubted but the work relating to doubling of Deshmukh. will be fulilled by namnaJising the raitw.ay tine from ~duar onwards is the private sedor railway companies and stiH to be done. Due to this, the people of the converting the narrow gauge lines into broad area have to face many dlfkuties in the gauge. Being our co.1eague in this House transportation of goods produced there to from 1980 to 1984 the hone Minister knows 'I other areas. Therafore~ I woutd like to re- very wei that we have had serious discus- quest thai the narrow gauge railway line of sion about the various problems of the raj- this sedion shoutd be doubled.. Starting hom ways in this House. I would Ike to thank Shri Katilar, thisraiway line goes upto ~ Ra;v Gandhi's Government also for accept- viaSiiguri. ."provide twota:iilies. Fwstty, ing our persistent demand for renewal of • wit faciIily transportatDn 01 torestproducts 12.000 kms. of railway track. Of thisy renewal 110m the basts ~ Assam and other areas of 6000 kms. of r~ track has already aid wiI .,. in reducing the COI9!SIion on been undertaken. I would like to request the this IOUle.. SecoIdy~ the Gcwemment wit han. Minister to take up the work relating to earn mora revanua." runNng a goods train th8 ,..s ••~ the remaining 6OOOkiIDme1res ontis... ThereIora.. naIfOWgiMJg8 railway of railway track so that the people of this .. shcUd be nained as it is ... lie old country do not meet wlh any tragic accident• II' I, Ina which runs paralal m I tram As t8ne is short I would 1M m draw 1he 183 Res. reo Conversion DECEMBER 22, 1989 Rly. Lines in 184 of Narrow Gauge Vldarbha Region

[Sh. Jagpal Singh] wait at Laksar Railway station during the days of pilgrimage. attention of the hon. Minister towards two problems. I come from an area, which is SHRI CHinA BASU: (Barasat): Mr. revered by crores of people of this country. Chairman, while supporting the Resolution He knows that Haridwar is a place of pilgrim- moved in the name of Shri Sudam Deshmukh, age which is visited by lakhs and crores of I take this opportunity to raise certain impor- people of India 50-60 times a year to take tant issues of Eastern Railway. The problem holy dip. which I propose to raise is quite well-known to the Hon. Minister of Railways because I 17.09 hrs. have already sent him a detailed note on the question of doubling of the section between Barasat and Banagaon.lt is a part of Easterll [SHAI JASWANT SINGH in the Chai~ railway. As a matter of fact, the need for doubling of the track was accepted in prin- Shri Brahma Dutt is saying that no one ciple by the Railway Ministry right in the year can achieve 'Moksha' without going to' Harid- 1978 and I have the great pleasure to say, it war. Perhaps he wants to say that if the hon. was Prof. Madhu Dandavate who cleared Minister of Railways does not pay attention the project in the year 1978 which visualised towards Haridwar, he will also not attain the doubling of the entire track of about 72 'Moksha'. There is double railway line from kms. from Sealdah to Banagaon. But unfor- Delhi to Ghaziabad and from Saharanpur tunately it has been taken up in phased upto Pakistan border. But between Sahar- manner. The first phase has been doubling anpur and Ghaziabad, there is only single the track from Sealdah to Barasat. But it has . ')' !ine for the last 40-42 years. I have not been extended to the extreme and of "·,.,me to know that survey for this line was 80ngaon. conducted oL*ring the reg ':-:. 9 o~ Shri Rajiv Gandhi and the Department of Railways has Mr. Chairman, the Railway Minister may also recommended that this Ii"ne should be be aware of the fact that these sections are doubled. In case it has not been taken up, I in the Sunderbans area. It is very much would request the hon. Mir)ister to start the connected with the passenger facilities and work for doubling the railway line between with the metropolitan city like Calcutta as Ghaziabad and Saharanpur. This should be lakhs of people every day travel in this sec- done because there is d0uble ~ajlway line tion, in the pursuit of their avocation and from Ghaziabad up to North Eastern region living. Unless this track is doubled, the very and only this patch is left out. ' social purpose of providing additional and necassary amenities for the passengers wiD' In the end, I would like to make a sub- not be fulfilled. Therefore, in my letter to the mission about my own constituency. Lakhs han. Minister of Railways, I have explained of pilgrims have to wait for hours together at in detail the need for immediate taking up of laksar railway station "during the days of the doubling of the" project not in phases but pilgrimage. There is no hilly terrain between by one-go. It is because you would admit that Laksar and Dehradun. Shri Brahma Dutt by spreading then the very scarce resources belong to Dehradun. The river Yamuna flows of our' country, we cannot complete any between PaontaSahebnd Oehradun. There- project. 'UniesS a project is completed on fore, it will be conveni~nt for the Railways to time, the cost escalation would be inevitable. construct a double line from Laksar to As fa~ as I remember, right in the year 1988~ Oehradun so that pilgrims may not have to in ~eply to a question in Parliamp,., the then 185 Res. re. Conversion PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Rly. Un9S in 186 of Narrow Gauge Vldarbha Region

Railway Minister replied that the total cost Thank you. required for doubling of tract from Barasat to Bongaon would be about Rs.27 crores. I [ Trans/ation] think, it is not a very big sum which the Government Exchequer cannot spare for SHAI BABUBHAI MEGHJI SHAH such a vital project which provides adequate (Kutch): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support facilities for the ~uburban passengers for the Resolution moved by Shri Deshmukh. their living and pursuit of avocation. There- The Resolution relates to conversion of fore, without taking much of your time, I narrow gauge line into broad-gauge. I would would once more request the Railway Minis- like to say a few words about it. ter, Shri George Fernandes, to get my proposal examined and take appropriate action In the state of Gujarat, narrow gauge so that the long-felt difficulties of the com- line from Ankleshwar t6 Rajpeepla should be muters of this section are removed as earlyly converted into broad-gauge. In kutch, the as possible. metre-gauge line from Gandhidham to Bhuj should be converted into broad gauge. The I only add two names which are equally long-standing demand to convert the met.,. important, the railway line which connects gauge railway line into broad gauge line from Barasat to Hashnabad. The Hashnabad Jetalsar to Veraval should also be fulfilled. section of the Eastern railway is very important because it connects the border of India Hon. Shri George Fernandes is a very to the capital city of Calcutta. It needs to be hard working person. I hope that he will electrified and further improved so that the definitely fulfil this demand. Conversion of disbursal proposal of the Govf3rnment of metre gauge railway line from Gandhidham India as well as the State Government for to Bhuj into broad-gauge line is also neces- .disbursing the people from the metropolitan sary for the movement of army in the border cities will be more helpful if this suburban area. A special railway line has been con- railways are improved. structed from Bhuj to Nalia but no rail service has been started on that route. There is a big Equally important is anothe.r line which air-base in the western part of our region. connects Bongaon to Ranaghat and I would Conversion of metre-gauge line into broad- not take much of your time. I would only refer gauge railway line is also necessary for the to these three lines:- movement of traffic in that area.

The doubling project to be completed With these words, I conclude. from Barasat to Bongaon at a go instead of building it by phases. [English]

There should be electrification of the SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE Bashnabad Barasat section and other im- (Bolpur): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to provements and also the electrification of thank you for giving me this opportunity. I Bangaon to Ranaghat section. only want to bring to the notice of the hone Minister the importance of the Section of the If these three rail lines are improved, the Eastern Railway between Khana and entire economic situation of the area will be Sainthia which serves Bolpur and Shantini- improved and I hope the hone Minister will be ketan. Sir, you are aware and the hen. Min- kind and gracious enough to have a fresh ister is also aware that a very large number look at all these on-going projects. of visitors, tourists and even foreign tourists 187 AIIs. .... Cant • sica DECEIIBER 22.. 1989 dMuwG..tge

areas. I would Ike kJ ~ tram toe hem. Min:ister as ro what wa be the ~r-~: antgoingti'tere. &'theRaiMta1~sso wbetber ...be O~ 1he eariie1 ;xMn~ tha: was ftaguIar and so UfSatts.tacta) ~ because .t! is taken W)Of af.a tt~ gotng to 9 ove sorn~ more anIJ a ~ .~ tGtana ,and ~ IDthe passengers tP3"",e-r~ ·~i the Sainthia Whic'h IS :a ~ine, 'tt.'al nard". ~areas_ 1hen! is anr sad!lsiac*:.ry Tan.ra,- servce So. :here is DrIe 1lraiiii ~ :fS cal)eci the Shanb- St,. here 1 mus: mentoo o-.~ t+t~. u.. ~ &press w!W::hgoes ~ Catcutta 10 Yahanlshtra Mantnad-AuTa.~atlaC! ~~ was Bop.- &Ad t:a:it. Sui that $ at a arne wtIic.h laken up approx:rnatety 11 or ~ 2 years t>-~ S not ~ suJlialt)ie. J! goes lr: !he momfng to'!s yet \0 be ~ed. i ...dd .reoues1 arwi comrnes 1ft tne at~ a! ~ o· ~ '!he bon. N.inCster ~ ~# some more anenOO-"": ~ are ~ Wftc are witiing 10 go !here io 1M ~ ana see mat r: ~ ~ tor a day"s eY~ a")aIt ~ tne ~uar eamer~ t-b: onfy that , wou'_:j Me: him ro ~afld ~~ Theretora, ~ arrend t~con\~~ ng~ ~ to Mt~;ari ~ woa«! vary 8a';MSIJ.r ~ the ~~- UJnis... Andhra PTaoes.h beca~ Mtabad is belng let k> tae* Jr80 j becar;e tas!1me at4e~ the ~1O PipakhW). a neYW broa

, do not want to seek any favour but I want to Member, Shri KaiOanath Rai has perhaps S99k justice. The capital of Bihar is Patna said just now that t~6 raihNays is the life-lina and there are two famous centres of tourist of a country. Therefore. t~fS life line is in your interest in the State nameiy Gaya and Rajgir. hands today. Theref ,jre, we expect that you The distance between Patna and Gaya ts should accord specia; attention to your own on:y 100 kms. and Rajgir and Patna are also State, whidl you represent. at a distance of 100 kms. Hundreds of tour- iSts visit Ralgir and Gaya every day but rt SHRI RAMASHRAY PRASAD SINGH tal(es them 5 hours to reach either ot two (Jahanabad): ~.A~. Chairman, Sir, by moving p.1aces from Patna by train. I would fike to this resolution for consideration in the House, demand that fast !ratns shouki be introduced the hon. Member t-:as bro1Jght to light various ootweer: Patna and Aajgtr and also Patna probtems of the ~untry !n t!-)is sector. and Gaya. The railway hne between Patna arrel Gaya is singte and we have been de- My first poir:t i~ that our hon. Minister of ~andfng for doubit:1g ot this line tor years. Railways is a t, ad~ -.;nior; leader. The person Peopie have res~*1oo to agitation a number who heki this pes rttGn previously bek>nged of !t;T;es fc~ thIs purpose. Until the Patna to a royal famay C~nsequentty! there is Gaya ratlway fine is doubled, the pressure of bound to be difference of approach. It is a trathcon thIs J;r1e win 'tot be eased. Similarly I fact that the former Minrster accorded spe- fast shl.J1tie train service shouk1 be started cial attention to cel1ajn places of his own heYWeen Ra}Qlf aile Gaya. This is also one of State and an faciirt~s were provided there. I our demands. There js a ralfway hne be- hope that our tr3~e t;n!on leader. who between Patna ana D,g~a but ft tS no use to the bngs to a bad

The Martin Company had constructed MR. CHAIRMAN: One Member at a the railway line from Fatuha to Islampur time, please, As such I would like to inform which too has also been closed. That railway you that there is restriction of time. If we line should be restored and linked with Bodh- consider the extension of time, this debate Gaya. It will provide· relief to the people. will be continued till 60' clock and it will be Apart from the railways there is no other carried over into the next session. Please tell alternative mode of transport available there. me whether you want the hone Minister tp All these things must be looked into. Little reply today or at some later date. has been done for that areas during the past 42 years. It is a sensitive area. At least 50 [English] people are killed there daily. Terrorists are als6 holding sway over there. Unless these things are looked into, the situation there will MR CHAIRMAN: We cannot extend the become very serious. time in an unlimited fashion. ts it acceptable that we extend the time of the discussion on Sir, this line should be doubled and this this Bill by one and a half hours? We can work should be included in the Eighth Five continue the discussion for haft an hour more Year Plan. tm 6 0' clock tOday and then for one hour more on the 29th December. SHRI LARANG SAl (Suraguja): Mr. Chairman, Sir, this is a very important sub- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes. 193 Res. re. Conversion PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) R/y. Unes in 194 of Narrow Gauge Vidarbha Region

SHAI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Next week Pradesh is far less as compared to other they are likely to take uJ:> Bills and not Reso- States in the country. I would like to submit lutions. that efforts should be made to remove imbalances in railway facilities in the entire coun- ~ Trans/ation] try, irrespective of whether it is hilly area or adivasis area. The new schemes for laying MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Patil is saying new railway lines should be implemented that the Bill will be broughton the day allotted without delay. for the Private Member's Bills. But it has been decided that not bills but resolution will With these words I thank Shri Oeshmukh. be taken up on that day. Sir, I thank you also for permitting me to speak. [English]

"Therefore, it is decided that we extend SHRI CHHOTEY SINGH YADAV the time for discussion on this Resolution by (Kannauj): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the proposals one and a half hours. Half an hour today and made by our colleagues regarding conver- one hour on the 29th December. Out of this sion of narrow gauge lines into broad gauge, extended time of one and a half hours, the are all important in themselves. I do not want Minister and the mover the Resolution will to undermine the significance of any of these also have to be given the time. proposals and would myself like to add one. Kannauj in U.P. had been the centre of the [ Tr~nslation] late Dr. Ram Manohar Lohia's activities. This area has always remained ignored. So SHRI DILEEP SINGH BHURIA far as agricultural production is concerned (Jhabua): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the Resolution more than 33 per cent of the potato crop qf. moved by Shri Deshmukh is very significant, the entire State is grown here and it is sent to specially for the Railways. Railways provide the markets in Bombay, Calcutta etc. Being link to reach every nook and corner of the a perishable item it gets destroyed very country. I would like to submit to the han. soon. There is broad gauge line in Kanpur. Minister of Railway, Shri George Fernandes If broad gauge line is provided to Kannauj, it that there are still many such adivasis areas will be linked with Bombay and Calcutta. The where the people have not seen a trains. " area consumes '28 per cent fertilizers out of Such areas should be identified and efforts the total requirement of Uttar Pradesh. But it should be made to provide railway Jines is difficult to get the fertilizers in time be- there. Provision for laying a railway line- cause of inadequate transportation facilities Dahor-Mau-Indore-has been made in the as only a narrow gauge line has been pro- Budget and this is a very important line vided here. Therefore·, the Government because all the adivasis areas in Gujarat and should consider this point. I would like to add Madhya Pradesh are covered under it. one thing more. There is Super Fast Express Similarly the Bastar-Rajdhara-Jagdalpur line for Farrukhabad. The hon. Minister witt look in Bastar is also very importanl The Govern- into it and perhaps the hon. Members will ment should try to implement the proposal laugh when they are apprised of the fact that for conversion of the narrow gauge lines into this train runs at the speed of a cart and broad gauge. A number of raHway tines pass covers a distance of 240 kms.·,n 16 hours. It through this area an~ th9refore, this be- is stopped in between for 8 hours and the comes all the more necessary. The area explaination given by the railway officers ;s covered under railway network in Madhya that there is no facility of the track. Thus after 195 Rss. (fl. Convetsion DECEMBER 22. 1989 _. u.s ., 198 of Narrow Ga.I9fJ VdIdIha Region

[She Chhotey Singh Yadav) undertaken but due 10 soma political reasons. the line has not yet been laid. Similarly starting in the evening it reaches the next laying of a broad guage line from kas~1o day at 3-4 p.m. Atthough this district has BapJr is also very important. The main thing given 2 Ministers but they did rd take any in this connection is that due to poti:aI steps in this direction. '"am obliged to you for reasons a demand for the Uttarakhand Stale the time given to me to speak on my request is being made in this fegjon. Theretorll. made yesterday. keeping in view the economic asped, it is essential that a broad gauge ina is laid [English} there. This is a border area adjoining Nairn- tal, Almora and Pithoragarh. A survey for MR. CHAIRMAN: Before I call the next laying railway line upto Nepal border h~ hone Member, I would make a request to you already been cortduded. Therefore, atten- to accommodate the maxmum number of tion should be paid to it. A provison for speakers, which is my intention, please Rampur and Haldwani broad gauge line restrict yourself predsety to t'No mmutes. should be made in the budget for this year. Now, Shri Pram Pradeep may please speak. It is therefore, my speci~ request to the [ Trans/ation) hon. Minister of Railways who is quite famU- iar with this area. With these words I thank SHAI PREM PRADEEP (Nawada): Mr. you tor having granted me time to speak. Chairman, Sir, at present there is a passenger train service available in Nawada distrk:t SHRl SHOPAT SINGH

I would like to request that a fast-train shouki MAKKASAR(Bikaner): Mr. Chairman, Strf f be started there. Nawada a!'ld Gaya being hawre Deen given opportunity to express my two reserved a;mstituenc!es is ample evi- views 00 the Resotution moved by Shn dence of the fad that there are baGkward Deshmukh. Therefore, f",s1 of all t woukf Ike

areas. I would urge upon the hoo. Minister of to thank Sh,i Deshmukh Sfr J Bl+wler and Railways that just as he has fought for the Ganganagar. both are the border districts cause of his empk>yet3s, he shottid take ar.d the peopte 04 the area expect you to J)Ct)' steps for starting a fas!-~ra.n from Gaya to more attention to these areas In the matter Delhi also so that the backward dass paopIe ~ dtavelopment living there may be beneffted. Tile second point is that the F atwa -tsiampur train running Mr. Chairman, Sir T I would first of aD tike between Patna and Nawada district has to speak about the Ganganagar Canai kxlp been disrontinued. It would be Pfoper j that ina rJ the Northern Railway. There should train is restored by laying a raftway line from be a broad gauge line between Hanuman- Fatwa station to Gaya Rajgcr should also garh to Suratgarh viz ... Ganganagar. Broad have a direct link with Gaya so that the travel gauge ine exists upto Surajagam. Broad facilities between Bihar sharif and Gaya may gauge iine is also available between So- be available to the peop~ ratgarh and Anupgarh and between Suratgar and Bbner. There are projects of 3 big SHRI M.S. Pk.. (NaJnitai}: Mr. Speaker, canals of India in my area. These are Ganga Sir, through you I want to submit that the Canal. Bhakra Canal and Rajasthan Canal work on the broad gauge fioe from Rampur Because of these projects we are having to Haldwani in Uttar Pradesh was started in bumper crops in these areas and its benefit 1971 and the land had already been ac- should also reach the interio, areas.. Broad quired. The survey of the land was also gauge Ine ~ be:ad there.ln-this regard ,., "__ .. Caraa:!Iiun PMJSA 1. 1_ (SMaIl Arr- LiIB.. 01 Maw 1. Gal.,. "'...... RIgi:L IIIJ ...Iissiut. is thai the corru ...... ~ 1iIIii aIId __ Oft t .. slid ..... Ina which is known as the ~ t.',op Ina ..,las IYat __ not saanadlil..-? ... shauid be undertakart_ FU1her fmm .. 1hase waGs t thamk. JDU- de1ef1C8 point cj view also. I would Ike ~ Stale that being a bonier Stale, the bIoim Sl-HKD.StI...TNFlR~FftI gauge Ina in .Anupgartf stlookI be extae daf or all woofd Iika ~ CD9***' IDL Shri Ul*»Jaisalmervia~ KhajI'" so ~ b ~ a Rascil'licJntar c:o. I1a! I may also serve ow detence needs.. vetsiott of rBl'OW gatJ9&,aiIJ iIJ' Inas ..., WIrth the comptetion of 1he &sf Phase of txoao gauge in tis bckwanl area t .., Rajas1han Canal.. the agricUbJIat produce SlJAlIOd .. Res MatiDn and tiIIIe tis qppar- 1here has been V8fY gaocl We pmduca tuntym r.aise·scrme f!IIIaI'as ~ID., ioodgrains worth As. 300 CIOI8S there.. Cot- c:anstiIt.Jeftc- I wctsid ike to .... )IOU that Dl.. wheat and mustant are grown 1hefe. In 1hefe has ~ a raaMljl!ne bel .." ICaI;a the absence of a railway fine lhete the farm.. and ~ Sir1ce Bdish tiIIIe. There has et'S find themseIrHts un.abAe 10 avai .... bean bmad gauga ~ 1Iains hat CMJ r1'Iafke( iaciities.. The tanners pnxiuce is Kalla aoo Delli and- KaIca and Andsar sofd aI a lew price becat.rse 1here is no siR::a. Bnishdays. Jwartfto.... 1tle Hause cwrangementlotaKe the produ::e 10 the inte- that oot 01 fi1ese traft;, Aarisar ... has rior areas.. Therefot~ ... ChaNman, my beeftcanc:e•• t l ..1det as to, whfahal .... Slb'nissCn is !hat besides the inrpotta'a has been witt'daw... I rEqUeSt J'DUID I8Sbe from defence point of view ~ this me s wwy it. important for us becat;se the bade oIlhe ~wtlchstartedtherecri!Syears ~~aIe Ul"Cfer~iI? ~ may reach the intef [of' areas also. It is ~ Ptadesh for an estimated produc- a newtv ir~ area w'here crores 01 ton- tion of 1 ..500 I'egrawatts tt:J ~_ Suv- nes d 1tJoc:V din are proCtJcsd btf despjte YeI for a RaIMay line has ~ cooduded ttMs aim. farmef's have to face the problems t.cm Nangallo RaInpur and steQs to acquire d transporting the produce to the inaeIilr lar1d have aiso been takef.l.. I hope the work areas because theta are no roads thel-e. ~ taying 1t1e raBway line w4U start soon.

Mr. Ch~ S4r. t would ike that j tb.s ~ ..,. is JinKed wiU1 Bitanar ffIiz but ,.. the , ....,. tf~ hawe been ,... t

SHRI GANGACHARAN LODHI crossing if the gates are closed and this has (Hamirpur): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I support the often resulted in the death of the patie~. Resolution moved by hon. Shri Deshmukh. Similarly, there is a market to the north of Just now many hon Members have asked for Mansi and a National Highway to the South. conversion of narrow gauge and metre gauge The Railway station is in between. People lines into broad gauge. Unfortunately, I come find it difficult to go to the market. So, there from a region where there is neither a broad should be a over bridge there. There should gauge nor a metre gauge line. It is an area also be an overbridge' in Khagaria. which has produced men, whose valiant deeds have been a matter of pride for the Thousands of people go from Bihpur to whole nation. !t is the region where the first Bhagalpur where the railway headquarters war of independence was fought under the are located. There are two Assembly con- leadership of Maharani Lakshmibai in which stituencies in that district viz. Bihpur and many young men sacrificed their lives. But Gopalpur, It is very difficultto go to Bhagalpur unfortunately, Bundelkhand still remains the from there. Sometimes steam engines stop most neglected and backward area of the on the way due to shortage of coal. People country even after 42 years of independ- have to go to meet their acquaintances or ence. It ;s so backward that 50% of the relatives in judicial custody. So J request the area's population has never seen a railway hon. Railway Ministerto improve the railway train in their lives. If a boy happens to see a facilities there. train in a city, he goes back and relates his experience to the villagers. Railway lines should not merely touch the outskirts of our SHRt CHHEDJ PASWAN (Sasaram>: district, there should be railway routes within Mr. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support the reso- the district. Our area has made an important lution moved by Shri Deshmukh. I would contribution to the freedom struggle by pro- request the hon. Minister of Railways through you that Rohtas district is an economically ducing person like Pandit Parmanand, Diwan backward area even though it is rich in Shatrughan and Swami Brahmanand who minerals and agriculture. Inadequate trans- sacrified their lives in the service of the port facility is also one of the reasons behind nation. The Government should at least work it. So, I would like to demand from the h~n. towards making India, the land of their Minister of Railways that Sasaram-Arrah dreams. railway line which was surveyed in 1982, should be immediately converted into broad Hamirpur and Harpalpur should have a gauge line. Till then, a train should be run direct railway line. The Chambal Express, between Mughalsarai and Patna and Delux which has been introduced, should be run Train, which stops at Dehri-on-sone, should daily. The Chhapra Express, which the be given a stoppage at Sasaram also. A stoppage should be provided at Kehra also Maharaja of Gwalior has extended upto in Dhanbad arna. A survey has already been Gwalior, should be further extended upto conducted for construction of railway bridge Delhi. on the Ganga from Pahlejaghat to Bihraghat in Patna. This bridge should be constructed SHRI RAM ~HARAN YADAV immediately as it will link the north and (Khagaria): Mr. Chairman Sir, I rise to sup- south Bihar. port the Resolution. I come from Khagaria. Khagaria town is situated on one side of the SHRI HARIBHAU SHANKAR MAHALE railway line and the hospital is situated on (Malagaon): I support the resolution moved the other side. If a patient has to be taken to by the hon. Members Shri Deshmukh. Nasik the hospital there is a long wait at the railway is a backward area and there are very few 201 Res. reo Conversion PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) Canst. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 202 of Narrow Gauge Rly. Lines in Vidarbha Region railway stations. There number should be increased. Besides this, a shuttle service 18.02 hrs. should also be started there, as it is an industrial area and there are lot of commut- CONSTITUTION (SIXTY SECOND ers. There is a long standing demand that AMENDMENT) BILL-CONTD. Punjab Mail should be stopped at Naga. Since a new railway line Indrukh has been [English] laid, I would suggest that a new train should be started connecting Nasik Road, 8alsad, MR. CHAIRMAN: We now take up Manmad and Malegaon. further discussion on the Constitution (Sixty Second Amendment) Bill, 1989 as passed 18.00 hrs. by the Rajya Sabha.

SHRI HEERA BHAI (Banswara): Mr. [ Trans/ation] Chairman, Sir, I support the resolution under discussion. Demands are being made to SHRJ BRAHMA DUTT (Tehri Garhwal): convert the narrow gauge lines into broad Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to make a gauge. There are a number of important submission. Many hon. Members of our party projects and m ;nes in my area. A large want to speak on this important issue. Most variety of precious stones are supplied from of the Members have gone back home due there to the entire country. to three day holiday. , would Jike to request on their behalf that they- should be A survey has been conducted twice or given an opportunity to speak on this issue thrice to construct a railway line from Ratlam on Tuesday. Those, who want to speak to Banswara. But it is our bad luck that no today, should be allowed to do so. • one from our area has yet become a Minister or if anyone has become, he has forgotten SHRI R.N. RAKESH (Chail): This is an the area. Banswara has not so far been issue relating to Scheduled Castes and linked with railway line. I would request the Scheduled Tribes. Anti-reservation a9 itations han. Minister that Banswara should be con- are being held in almost all parts of the nected either to Ratlam, Meghnagar or country. tf the discussion is carried after 6 Ooomarpur with a railway line. This would O'clock, it cannot be published in the news- enable the people to get remunerative price papers. Only the Members of Parliament will for their products besides transport facilities know about it. ... (Interruptions) and means of livelihood. SHRI JAGPAL SINGH (Hardwar): We have promised to provide employ- Those who want to take part in the discus- ment to the people in tribal areas. With this sion are not even present. arrangement, we will kiH two birds with one stone. With the laying of this railway line, lot MR. CHAIRMAN: I would like to point of workers can be provided employment. I out that the discussions held in the Parlia- am hopeful that the hon. Minister will accept ment are for Parliament only, and not for the our demand. newspapers. Time cannot be changed for the newspapers. Shri Brahma Dutt said that With these words, I support the resolu- some speakers want to speak on Tuesday. tion and once again request that a rallw3'( It is the decision of your party. I have no line should be laid in Banswara. objection to it. But it is not proper, if some Members say that they will speak only when [English] they catch the attention of the press. SHRI R.N. RAKESH: I didn't mean that. MR. CHAIRMAN: We will cortinue it on You have failed to' catch iTly point. How will the next day. the stand of Members be known? I am speaking in your interest. SI-H DLEEP SItGH BHURIA: Mr. poor. 1he duwtLllodden ;nj especi., .. 0Iainnal. Sir" ... big .. )IOU go on -- SCsISTs. ...dillg the Iime?__ ~). __ Thaeare IlOdoubI ca1ainpowisiDllS., !be ConsIiIutIon Iorraserva&ion for SCsISTs.. Navarlhalass,. .. sole CI8Cit of powidiIlg IaR. CHAIRMAH: New l cal upon sam ... special rapresedaIion hough rases- A Ashokrai 10 speak on this ~ "*-'in kJcaIbodiesawYilage palChayals. m.n panchayaIs and rnt.lI~ goes to SHRI C. SRlfFVASAN (Dirldigd): Dr. ~ This ~ was provided on want 10 speak ontne ,aiu• ., inas.. a statumry basS. The purpose of teIing this here is 10 persuade the GoYemment 10 urge MR. CHAIRMAN: t am SOfTJ,. you can- upon the State ~ whk:h do not not speak row an the rait.way Ines DeCause have su:h reservatJons i1 local bocies 10 thave already caI.ed upon Stui AAshakrajm toIkJw the exarnpe at T ami Nadu. Hen. speak on the Coostiution (S«ty-second Ynistec is sibing here. I am sure he would Amendment) BiI.. We have gone on 10 !he taIle the message D the Slate Governments ne%l item. You can write 10 the t'lon. t.iftstef a:n:smed_ regarcing c:orwersDl of nanow-gauge lines into broad-gatJge tines. Sir ~ when e!ections are round the cor- net. Commissions lor 1he welare 01 SCsi ShriA~ ST5 are consUulec:t tor pu-e pofiticaf rea- SOilS fha too tor every 1 0 years_ t ren1et'nber (T~ tbat dUmg the Janaia Period? such a Con;- mCssat was app:»nted. Whether the Com- *SHRI A.. ASHOt

CNef ~ of Tami Nadur he maoe Se¥- etaJ seI1ess saaif~ tor the welare 01 me ~hastaught us that if ts wrong poor andtbe~. ~ WCtill be fa6ng 1D expect too rr-••.. x:h ~ the matter of rehaoi;· in my duty if f miss the occas1on 10 aw.-ise ~the pool and the oCwnlrodderL ee,~!u this augtlSt House !hat leader RewoUmn- ries «*I ~ ~ and cis- ary (Puratchi T~) Dr"_ Jr.«3R and one aimil'aaliolt car.nol be set r9ht mfour Oec- leader~-y {PtRd'i-Thadaiul)seIriri aries. True il wx*l take time . But 1hen.. Ja.yaiaiIha used1heil"perscnciftmds earned wban Dr. ~ drafted Ihe ConstiW- by did d hard .,.fer the upIiItnllMt of the tion" 1he ConsUuenti A.ssemtiy foresaw1hat 205 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill PAUSA 1,1989 (SAKA) Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 206

this task could be completed in 15 years. It cannot be measured. Let me repeat what I could not be completed. It was extended for said earlier. Mere framing of laws would not a period of another 10 years. It was further help the situation. These have to be imple- exten~ed for another 10 years. These exten- mented in right earnest. The benefits en- sions have not yielded results. Today, the visaged in the laws should reach the poor Government is before us asking for another and the downtrodden in real terms. These extension for 10 years. This is the pathetic must be a positive programme, a pragmatic condition. This tells on the performance of approach and a dauntless step-forward in the Government. Even after 40 years, their the direction of improving the economic lot has not improved. condition of these people. Do not add insult to the injuries of these people. Do not keep I urge upon the Hon. Prime Minister to on nothing them to the corner. That would pay special attention to this serious problem. only add fuel to the fire. A day is not far tor It is not sufficient to pass laws. The laws these oppressed people to respond with should be implemented in letter and true ve·ngeance. Instead I would request the spirit. Not only that. The implementation of Government to take definite steps to amelio- the laws has to be constantly monitored. rate the conditions of the SCs and STs. Why 40 years of reservation has not fructi- Unless their economic condition is improved, fied into desired results is aquestion that has real rehabilitation shall not be there. And to be sincerely answered. A separate Re- again this should be done within the shortest view Committee must be appointed to go span of time. into the lapses in the implementation of the reservation laws. The committee should not With these words, Sir, I thank you for only analyse the reasons for the lapses but giving me an opportunity and conclude. also should suggest ways and means of rectifying the errors. I hope this would be [English] kindly considered. SHRI PETER G. MARBANIANG (Shil- Take Tamil Nadu for instance. Today, long): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I want to make it the SCs and STs are in pitiable condition. 'very very clear that on this very important When we go to the interior parts of the State, issue, I would like to treat it as a national when we go to the villages and small ham- issue and a national issue alone. lets, we find the SCs and STs are without shelter. There are no vacant lands for provid-, Sir, I come from Meghalaya which is ing shelter to them. There are no drinking· predominantly a tribal State and my people water facilities. There-are no graveyards: are still backward, are still in a large number Basic amenities are not available to the SCsI llliterata and it would take time for them to STs in the villages. understand the exact political opportunities offered by the Constitution of India; and as Sir, it is matter of great worry that in such Ifind that my State, iny people, feel that certain parts of the country agitations are there should be a continuation of the reser- going on. These agitations are instigated by vation policy under Article 334 of the Consti- a handful of misguided elements for cheap tution of India as enshrined in the Bill, which gains. This has to be out rightly condemned. 'was moved today by the Hon. Minister. This Government must seriously address themselves to this problem. Sir, I dare say that in the North-Eastern region the fundamentai understanding of the If at all this Government is sincere about people is respect of the dignity of the individ- providing welfare to the poor and the down- ual. The tribals believe in the dignity of the trodden, then this Government must defi- individual. Yesterday, the hon. Prime Minis- nitely concentrate on improving their eco- ter has spoken these words; respect the nomic condition. The plight of these people dignity of the individual, that has been the ~ 207 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill DECEMBER 22, 1989 Const. (62nd Amdt.) BIll 208

[Sh. Peter G. Marbaniang] children outside. Therefore, my good friends coming from different parts of the country, tradition of the tribals not only of Meghalaya must try to explain wherever they go, that but of the other sister States in the North this Bill has a great significance. It was done Eastern Region. And therefore, this is what by people like Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru and we want and all should understand it today. Dr. Ambedkar. And as such knowing that we India is a great country. India is a country like have not come upto the standard, we should a big wall of mosaic and each one of us in still be allowed special reservation. With diversity contributes to this great country. All these words, J support this Bill. of us here want the unity of India. We the tribals and the Scheduled Castes, form part SHRI KAILASH MEGHWAL (Jalore): of this great mosaic forming India, havingour Mr. Chairman, Sir, we are discussing an . own tradition and culture. In every State in important issue regarding the extension of India, we have Scheduled Tribes and Sched- reservation period. In the Statement of Ob- uled Castes, not only in the North Eastern, jects and Reasons the same reasons have but also in Madhya Pradesh, Bihar Orissa been given for extension of reservation which and almost in all States. As such, this very were there 40 years back, although some important Bill which has been brought by the progress has been made by the Scheduled hon. Minister shows respectforthe dignity of Castes and Scheduled Tribes during this the individual especially of the Scheduled period. Castes and Scheduled Tribes and this will bring unity, this will peace in and this great Mr. Chairman, Sir, those reasons still country of ours. hold good. I am emphasising it, because the way Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes Sir, though I come from the North East- have been neglected in the name of reserva- ern Regton, yet I have been to almost all the tions it would do no good to them. I would like States ot this great country of ours. If we to draw your attention to another point. The know how to respect the dignity of the indi- period of reservation was fixed at ten years vidual, I am very sure that we wili be able to only in the first instance and it was sug- get peace, unity and progress. I must say gested by some of the members of the that the Bill which has been brought today Constituent Assembly that it should be fixed allows this special reservation because you as ten years only, with a proviso that ff need cannot deny the fact that many of the Sched- be, it may be further extended after 10 years. uled Castes and Scheduled Tribes are backward~ lJ'lany of them are illiterate and as Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to submit such, we cannot apply economic criteria to that the amendment regarding extension of , judge on tnis issue. I appeal to all my good this period was not accepted by the great friends here to unde(st?nd this. All of us are leaders of the Constituent Assembly. I would going to contribute to the benefit and welfare like to tell you the reason. The reason was of India because we are all part and parcel of that the country had achieved Independ- this great country. H this good gesture is ence in 1947, and Achhutodhar movement shown by the leaders here without making a was launched by the Congress soon after political issue, I am sure, people everywhere the Peona Pact in 1932. in India, be in Allahabad, be in Gujarat, be it anywhere, will understand the special sig- Mr. Chairman, Sir, Achhutodharmove- nificance of this reservation, because if we ment, Harijan Sewak Sangh, Khadi pro- are an for political reservation, it follows that gramme and Bhang; Kasht Muktimovement there will also be economic reservation, all were started by Mahatma Gandhi. There reservation in jobs and reservation in educa- was the curse of untouchability also. Many tional institutions. I come from a State where movements were launched and constructive do not even have an engineering college or effort was made to remove untouchability a medical college and we have to send our from the society. On the one hand, these 209 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 210

movements were continuing and on the other [English] hand, Raja Ram Mohan Roy established Brahmo Samaj, which struck a blow to the "It was not inadequate if the leaders of social disparities and to the evil of untouch- this country put their heads together to ability. Swami Dayanand pointed out that on bring them up." going through the Vedas it becames clear that no Hindu scripture mentioned untouch- [ Translation] ability or ever recognised it. And it was propagated in the eighteenth century that Thus, with these words Pandit Nehru had not the so-called untouchables should be up- accepted even that proposition. Mr. Chair- lifted and brought into the mainstream. Oth- man, Sir, I regret to submit before you that erwise, they would become aliens. This there has been one and the same ground, for campaign was launched in the country by all the constitutional amendments brought the social organisations working under after every ten years i.e. in 1959, 1969. 1979 Vivekananda. On one side Arya Samaj was and today in 1989. This ground exists even leading this campaign while on the other, today. But I would like to ask through you as social movements were also contributing to to who is to be held responsible for all these it. Acharya Narendra Dev, Shri Jai Prakash things that even today discrimination is being Narayan, Shri Ashok Mehta, Achayut Pat- made between man and man on the basis of wardhan, were the persons who wanted to caste. Who is responsible for creating such bring about a change in the society. After a situation that man is unable to lead a life of independence they wanted to make use of a human being. Harijans have their separate the conducive atmosphere of the dawn of mohallas as big in size as a city but they are independence for the total elimination of the not allowed to vis~ markets, they cannot evil of untouchability. A dynamic movement purchase eatables or clothes of their choice. was sweeping the country which had its If they touch vegetables. these things do not inspiration from the Russian revolution in remain worth touching by others. These 1917 and there was a general awareness to things are shown to them from a distance. break the barriers of inequalities based on They cannot purchase cloth from a public high and low economic status and caste. All shop, they cannot go to a hotel. We have no this formed the ground of independence doubt, made a number of provisions in th~ struggle that was won in 1947, and after constitution but today I would like to put one achieving our independence in 1947, we thing quite emphatically that in the matter of framed our constitution in 1948. Though the implementation of reservation, some sort of Constituent Assembly had in principle agreed criminal negligence has been shown'n this but it refused to accept this amendment for country. Even after 43 years of our inde- the sale reasons if they dMi not specify the pendence, it is on the very basis of one's time limit of 10 years and accepted the birth in a particular caste that discrimination amendment to extend it for more than ten is being practised in the name of untouch- years, it would bring in despondency. People ability- in this country. It is not only a matter of were very keen and anxious to put an end to shame for us but it lowers the prestige of this the evil of untouchability in the country. But country in the world. It is a stigma on it. in view of its utmost urgency, the great Therefore, it is my humble submission that leaders and freedom fighters of the country, atleast this much we can do to day but what who were the members of the constituent at out future? The concerned Minister is not Assembly, had said some words to express present here but some other Minister has their views on it. However, I would like to been taking down notes. The Hon. Prime quote only the words of Pandit Jawaharlal Mini1ter has given emotional statements. Nehru who had said that duration of ten But, I would like to know whether these years would be insufficient for the purpose. statements of the Prime Minister or the elec- He said this thing in the following words: tion of some representatives of these people 211 Ccnst (62nd AmdtJ Bill DECEMBER ~ 1989 Const (62nd AmdLJ BlI 212

[Sh. Kaiash ~af] the crores of people. I agree that when !he quota of reservamn provided for scheddad to 1he lok Sabha and legislative Assam- castes and scheduled tmes in the COIlStiIu- bies on the basis c;j the edeilSion d !his lion is tuIiIed, theythemseJves would make pnMsion of fesetYa!OO for another 10 years Ihe8' seectiorL would esaable us to erad£3le this WiL These are same questions which are-belng raased. Unempbyment has increased in the Tme and again acrWnony agalnst reseMi- country due to the policies adapted by the tions has been ~ing up B1 !he youths. , Congress.. A demand is being raised in this MJUId not blame anynody tor 1his acrimony regard and that is someltw!g naturut be- in the youth~ I WOtdd blame nether this side cause eac.b :and every lk~ wants orthe other stde$ Also.. I would not lik.e to rake some ~ to earn his ivetiilood. But during up any controversy ~ INs regard. But what is these 42..43 rears rI O'~f Independence we there at is root? t.b-eover~ there is a change have feaD'1ed a stage when we have innu- ... the thinking of !he people. Now they do not merable unempkJyed pet'S(mS ~ ou~ country feel that these ~ are downtrodden. and fm ~iis state of aflan only Congress oppressed and eXDioded and hena!~ 1ney poicies are responsb1e to a great extent.. I shookS be upiIted as they are aAso human would ike to StA:mit that Jawah.a.ra~ '1Ie~ru Oemgs and for tnal rea...c:on they should be tlad a VCSiiQO 1hat through industr~ he given equa1 tights. This feeing has tota:ty would be able 10 tatw the coo!lt'y to g~ vanished mday. AJij eve ro.cemed 10 gel the he9f1ts of progress_ But yo\i are wen aware votes of scfledulec castes and sd1edutec of the resuls 01 that indUSlriai pnlgress_ In tmes ., make it a basts 10r retcm.ng powef ttlDse du-ys the shoemaker.. who did 00: haw in their hands. any laod or aclf other soorca at R:ome and who usee to earn his ivmg by ~ shoes. Mr. Chairman.. SV-. ! would ike to subtnl chappaiS and oIher leather goods b meet

that objection was ratsed yesterday In re- the requU&merds of the SDCiet'l c has oow to gard to the referer.ce being made m the lace the challenge posed by tr~· easy availa- leaders Ike Mahatma Gandhi Or _lOO~ and biitv of 8ata Shoes and chappais ali every not to the leaders ~ Pandit ~iI1arta viJage. Thus we can see that 1llWI-a-days big Nehru and Shrimati mira GandhL Mr. shoe manufacturing companies are meetirYJ Q\airman.. Sir" equa4 mportance can be the requBements d the society everywhere given to PancM Jawa.~ Nehru~ &fore to the rural as wei as wban areas. t! has the ~ 1947 he had a respectable., unique tendered 1akhs and ames of shcetnakers in and irlspimgpersonaity but in the year 1947 the rountTy jobless and they are on the bri'* Jawahar laS Nehru surrendered to 'the ron- starvatOn_ But there is nobody to listen to servaIive forces and became so heipIess their goevantes. On the other hand Bata. that even .. a penod of 1o years hecnuki not Dayabagh" and many other manufacturers get al1hose things accompished during tne of Kanpu! shoes are having a smooU1 busi- period 01 his leadersh" for which he had ness.• has aaaIed a big ecDIllOmic crisis. earned popularity duong the preceacing ten You may YefJ wei remembers that 50 years years. back ie. m the dap. Mahatma Gandhi haspr_ propagated the use ci What is happening today. ~ reserva- Khadi and made I popular with the masses tion rnovarnert is gaining popuIarily among and he launched a pR'9'8f1Kn8 for spinning. 1he people. Today they tall of the seiection Is weamg and wearing. There was also 01 a few famliBs" but my saAJrnission is thai t spinrWIg wheel in each and fN8lY hoIne. would not be proper to seiad a few famiies wheIher it bablg8d m a BrahmiI.. a Ma- from amongstab:Jut2S to 21aorescl schad- haiaI\ a RaiPuI. A ChaucIIaryll A Jar or a uIad castes and scheduled 1riJes people .. Goo;Ir.. Old and aIdartr ladies used to spin in 1his murdIy.• is not at aU desilabla 10 ague ",.., house ... a weaver used 10 visllD on the basiscAonfyonefamilyftom amDIlgSt lakathe!qJpIJaly.ufmm.,.,house..t 213 Canst. tfi2nd Amr:I..J g PAUSA 1. 1989 (SAICA) Canst (&2nd And] 8iI 214

used Io-weave doIh. In this way he used to and want to have .... share in 1he Gowem- earn his iteIhood tor his tamir members., menl and also each and evefJ spinning memberol the famiy had his due ~ of retum_ But tk. ~ s." ciri ser.. ices have today as a part ~ Goverrmen! ~ em aIlJactDn and giamour Wl this a:JUI*Y- Khadihas beaJme a thing ~ meTe ~ m Hate everybody wants to have a GcMwn- the show moms. Now ~ has become a tMlg ment iXl and lead a combrtable lie. People of show in the country wt.er~as ~ lhe past. of servCe class regatdtess oi !heir pclSition. weaviAg and wearing of khadf.as a must! jar- be it that 01 a peon. Rave been IeadiIIg a a rommoo man. &t today mil c.bth is beng comiortabJe ita_ Gcwemment service has Sl ~ and so4d aM OVe! me munlry_ As a beer:t so ~ thai eyerybJdy wants ~ resu' of l. ~ the wea~ have been r~ Pin i.. Peo.oIe .. have to be awakened in dered jobess_ It is the resu!t of yo:tJf ~ Vew of t~ prevailing CI'aJ1nstances in the nt)!r'c pc:fces- ThaI is why I WoukJ Yk:e- to society. After al 'What is it we want to adlie¥e sub.'TIa to you tna! t \W01.f~ ~ be proper k:l afld aoc:ompish 2n this c.nunI7)-? I WQljd .. ~ them out am say 10 ~ peop;e of this to ~ ff'a 1hefe is already provision ~ COtJRtty th~ the ~1"ii cE res.eNa!:iDn lnt:as A ~cle 33S aqd 34n ~ our ooostluIion. , do been extended hJrtberbr l&:n ySaf.S. Tho1lQ~ ~ want lc lI"e.ad out But these provisions 01 r-_~~ ~ ~..liiI 'h.-. :n. ....,..._ ..... f*~ ...... ,;.~ ~,!...... "C;. ~~~~ 11'II\A.J ~ ~ ~:!~,'.~ 1.1! tIL-. 1'1- -I-'"h; ,"ese:vatlans br schadUied castes and sdled- way J have pi.I! bebre y~ c-?rtain faos an~ .u'l.ed trbes ~ k) be impIamented_ Are t~U1£:S br yOU!f ~era:~'X\\_ these proVsons ma'klng an ~? ATe me people d ~ castes and scfleduIed Mr. Chairman. Sir ~~T~4?.of the mem- ri>es ge!fulg:ne benef't ofthesepmvisions? be1S have been saymg trWl~ ~ Hen.. Pnrne II Is a constitutOr.ai pos1 and whoever ts ~er issues one S1..a!~ wAle trt-.e aorpOjnted 10 tnis JXS\, has a responsi)Ry to Deputy Prilne--ltir.istc~ Sh'r,~ De\tj la1 issues see to :Q as to what s being done .. respect a~ oHler. "They stou6d rather see to i as to d 1he reservation tor scheduled casles and wr.al has been sad and no.: much 01 • Is scheda'ed tribes. We have to see as ., COffee! aM what 15 the mtJt.Ne of Shri 0evIi whethef un~ is being eradicated lal's statement aOO '" what 004"1I1eXt he has or M. Six years have gone by. Out ofthis. tor said At Jt is 001 good 10 c1'tit:S ~ threeyears Smt. tnmraGandhiwasinpower, withouI .fJOing deep .., Jt_ Stt. In my first ..., prodaimed to be the Messiah of 1he press conIemnce I had ~ my friends Scheduled Castes and the Scheduied Tribes on 1his issue_ They had ~1JSed me that as a and one and a nal year of the f~ per- responsbe spokesman of !he Govemmem tained to Shri RajN GaOObi After al what is I: was my bounden duty to CD:nfeY each and tile reason Dr 'Ihis_ eYefY point thad comes m !mY notticE f~ ing the ~of reservabtm to the Honble J WO'Uid lite » place one more fact Pnrr.e MlM1is1et_ bebe 1he Hoose. For 1he .~ six mocllhs. a specialvigorous fecn.itment drive was going SHRI K.D. SUlTAMP'JRt 'bas ap- on.. • we do through the actvertisemeM co!- peared lJ.:1 the press_ dmRS 01 the various newspapers during the last six months" we can find how an exten- SH:RI KAIl.ASH MEGHWAL: You sive speciat recruiImenI drive was Iauncbed shou~ ~ 8ad II ~ _0rM! thing bas baan 10 dear the bzJdog of reserved vacancias reiteraled in this c.onnedDn...... _ Chairman,. accumulafed for the last .to years in the Sir., IDday I would Ib to stOni 1haI Sl.::h various 0epartmenIs such as Raiways. Post wices --*t naI:UraIy be raised because we and Telegraph em LlC. etc. The number of are part of a demoaatic set ~. We have a reserved vacancies in those depaI1menIs demoa¥Jllcsel upofGowmment. Todar" andGcwatwnent undeftakings lURSin Iakhs. c.aI1IlOIS4JR!SS"mice~badtwaId( las ses • 1he reserved vacalCies for SchedIJIad because..., ..also J8I mthe ale cb_ Castes and ScI...... TriJeshawa noIbeen 215 Con st. (62nd Arndt.) Bill DECEMBER 22,1989 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill 216

[Sh. Kailash Meghwal]. made for the people belonging to Scheduled Castes, be it named after Jagjivan Ram or filled up even in the Central Government, Indira Gandhi or Rajiv Gandhi or for that what will be the situation in the States? Who matter Sanjay Gandhi, have been on th-e is responsible for it? This itself castes asper- outskirt of the cities. It is a hard fact. These sion on Congress Party. Now the people colonies have been made by the Congress belonging to Scheduled castes are also Government, so they are responsible for it. becoming vigilant. I would like to submit that Colonies of S.C. and S. T. situated in the this problem should be viewed in terms of its heart of the cities and vHlages were demol- implementation. The purpose of filling the ished and the land was acquired and they reserve seats in the Lok Sabha and the State were compelled to settle on the outskirts of Assemblies has been served with this policy the cities. New posh colonies and commer- of reservation. However, the purpose of fill- cial complexes have been made on the land. ing the reserved vacancies in government It is the policy of the Congress Party. I regret departments is yet to be served. As regards to say that despite maltreatment of the sort, reservation in the field of education, without Scheduled Caste people helped the Con- naming anyone, I would like to say that when gress Party to be in power for the last 43 the leader of Opposition Shri Rajiv Gandhi years. visited Gujarat, he said that the Congress Government would extend reservation in Today, I had an opportunity to gothrough Government jobs on economic ground for a document of the Election Commission another 10 years. It is against the spirit of the lying in the Library. According to it, 85 per Constitution. There is a standing provision in cent reserved seats in the Lok Sabha have the ConstitLltion for reservation in Govern- gone in favour of Congress Party, no matter .ment jobs for the educationally and socially it was Jawaharlal Nehru or Indira Gandhi or backward people only. The then national for that matter Shri Rajiv Gandhi who held leaders and founding members of the Con- the office of Prime Minister. They were al- stitution did not think it prudent to leave this ways voted to power with thumping majori~ thing to be done by the future generations with the support of S.C.lS.T. people. It means because they were not sure that they would that 85 per cent of the people belonging to do it. Therefore, they made a standing provi- S.C./S. T. continued to support the Congress sion for reservation in the Constitution. Dr. Party. They helped the Congress Party to Ambedkar deserves to be congratulated for remain in power. this but a confusion is being created about the constitutional provision for S.C. and S.T. A number of Governments have come A massive publicity was launched to the and gone in this counVy and so are 'Rajas' effect that if opposition is voted to power, and 'Maharajas' who ruled the country with reservation for S.C. and S.T. in Government the help of the power of sword. It does not jobs as well as in educational institutions matter whether they ruled the country 1500 would be done away with. I would like to ask years ago or 1000 years ago for that matter them as to what are all these things which 500 years ago, but it is a fact that some they are doing for political reasons? What is people helped those Rajas and Maharajas in our thinking on this issue? Our friend Shri establishing their kingdom and in return those Sathe of the Congress has spoken well. I people were rewarded by allotment of 'Jagirs' would like to ask him on the basis of informa- by the Rajas and the Maharajas. They are tion received trom Rajasthan whether it is a still reaping the benefits of those jagirs which fact that people belonging to Scheduled are/still in their possession. Thereafter, Bri- Castes were forced to live on the outskirt of tishers came to India. They established Brit- a colony named IKalpana Swaroop' in Ra- ish empire here with the help of diplomatic jasthan? On the basis·of my experience of manoeuvering and spread their economic Rajasthan, I can say that during the last 43 empire. The people who helped them were years' rule of the Congress Party, colonies amply rewarded by allotment of big Jagir,. 217 Canst. (62nd Amdt.) Bill PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 218

They also enjoyed power of the State and in a very light manner. The philosophy of Dr. control over the exchequer. Hegdevar which is a practical one is being put intc ;:-~~~tice by Vishva Hindu Parishad. The electorates and the representa- Vishva Hindu Parishad has been making all tives belonging to Scheduled Castes and out efforts to ensurethe entry of harijans into Scheduled Tribes helped the Congress party temples and eradication of untouchability. to remain in power during the last 43 years. The Vanvasi Kalyan Parishad is actively I would like to ask them as to what is the working forthe welfareoftribals in the co' .1- condition of those people even after 43 years try. We have to give momentum to these of Congress rule? If you go to a tribal area, programmes, no matter we remain in politics you will see that even today Adivasis have or not. The way they make fun or Lord Rama, no clothes to wear, no food to eat and no I would like to tell them that we never Lord house to live in. Providing electricity connec- Rama and we worship him. Lord Rama reigns tion in their huts is a far cry. They can't afford supreme in the minds of the people of the even a bicycle. But our friends belonging to country. Some persons make fun of Lord the Congress Party are shedding crocodile Rama for sake of some votes. The Congress tears for the Scheduled Castes and Sched- Party has been suitably punished at the uled Tribes. I would like to say that the hands of the publicfor its criminal negligence Congress Party has played a role of protec- of the people belonging to S.C./S.T. and torturned predator. Nowthe people of Sched- disrespect shown to Lord Rama. Today the uled Castes and Sch~duled Tribes have Congress Party is drawing solace in claim- awakened. While supporting this Bill, I would ing itself to be a single largest party. I would like to request the han. Minister and this like to tell them that our Government have House that we have to make efforts to put an implemented whatever it has said. I can s~ end to the feeling of low and high and we with confidence that in the coming years the should work for humanity. present opposition party will be wiped out. The youths, weaker sections and people In our country, we have adopted a belonging to the Scheduled Castes and democratic system of Government. Every Scheduled Tribes have been cheated by the citizen of th~ country has got right to cast his Congress Party for the last 42 years. vote in favour of the candidate of his choice. But some people purchase votes with money With these words, I conclude. and distribute liquor among people. Persons who secure votes for themselves with the [English] help of money and liquor are enemy of this country. They have reduced the value of the MR. CHAIRMAN: Before I call any vote to one bottle of liquor. Now the people other han. Member to intervene-I have have awakened. These tactics will not pay placed them in order-I must take the con- now. The people of Scheduled Castes and sent of the House and inform the House that Scheduled Tribes have to be made equal the time available is very limited. A number partners in the Governance of the country. If of members have declined to speak today J we will not do this, we will also be held choosing instead to participate on Tuesday. responsible after 10 years as we are holding I must from here announce that the time the Congress Government responsible to- available on Tuesday is also extremely lim- day. ited and it is limited for the purpose of reply by the hon. Minister. The names given to me The policy of the Bhartiya Janata party here run into 20 or 30. I cannot call 30 is very clear. Our party has been taking members to participate today. At the most, follow up action on the work started by the House can sit only till 20 minutes past Mahatma Gandhi. It is also carrying out other 7.00 PM. I cannot make the House sit be- social reform movements in our country. yond that. I have with me just now a List th~t Shri Vasant Sathe is saying all these things I have made in order of the priority in which 219 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill DECEMBER 22, 1989 Canst. (62nd Arndt.) Bill 220 these names were given:- that the members of scheduled castes and scheduled tribes, particularly those belong- 1. Shri Piyus Tiraky. ing to scheduled castes, do not enjoy freedom of change of their religion. Even the 2. Shri K.D. Sultanpuri. Government does not allow them to change their religion. They do not have this freedom 3. Shri S. Serna. whereas the people belonging to all other castes have full liberty. in this regard. Those 4. Shri laeta Umbray. scheduled castes people, who have changed over to Buddhism, have been deprived of 5. Shri R.l.P. Verma. these facilities. These facilities are available only for those, who are Hindus or Sikhs. But 6. Shri Piyare Lal Handoo. there are many religions, whose people cannot get the facilities as are admissible to I can include one or two names here of the people of Scheduled Castes. A large those members who have chosen to stay number of scheduled castes people have here but I cannot permit an endless debate changed overto Buddhism duetothe atroci- on this discussion. Therefore, I would re- ties committed on them by the people of quest hen. Members that in their intervention Hindu religion in the form of ban on their they should please limit their intervention to entry into the tempies, manhandling and the shortest possible time. humiliation of the members of these communities. Moreover, on their conversion, they I call upon Shri Piyus Tiraky. are, in a way, punished because they are deprived of all those facilities as were admis- SHRI PIYU5 TIRAKY (Alipurduar): Mr. sible to them earlier as the members of Chairman, Sir, I would like to thank you for scheduled castes. With the change of relig- the opportunity given to me to present my ion, they lose their identity as scheduled views on this Constitution (Amendment) Bill. caste. I support this Bill. I fully agree with the views expressed by Shrimati Subhashini Ali who Secondly, till now, the Governmentdoes has already spoken here before me. How- not know the exact number of people who ever, I would like to add a few points which belong to the schedul~d castes and sched- she could not cover or mention. Sir, it is in the uled tribes. If a member of a schedule caste very blood of Indians that we think only in migrates to another district, he no more terms of caste which is the very base and remains the member of scheduled castes identity of Hindu religion and without it, the because every state has its own policy re- very existence 01 Hindu religion will be threat- garding the identification of such persons as ened or come to an end. So, here they have to which of the castes will be recognised as prescribed a different profession, code of scheduled castes or scheduled tribes. This conduct, way of living and norms of treat- policy also undergoes a change from time to mentto be meted out in the case of members time. So what I mean to say that even the belonging to different castes and sections of Government of India does not have the exact society. There is also a difference even in figures regarding the exact number of people their language. Hence, the Government of belonging to scheduled castes and sched- India should ponder over it. From the very uled tribes in India. I doubt that they have the first day of independence of our country, exact figures. It is not so in the case of high neither the Scheduled Castes and Sched- caste people such as brahmins because a uled Tribes people have been able to avail brahmin remains a- brahmin even if he hC\s the facilities meant for the members of these migrated to some other state but if a mem- castes, nor they have the freedom of conver- bers of scheduled caste or scheduled tribe sion according to their desire. Hon. Minister, goes to Calcutta or Uttar Pradesh, he is Sir, I would like to bring it to your kind notice deprived of an the facilities provided to sched- 221 Const (62nd Amdt.) Bill PAUSA 1, 1989 (SAKA) Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 222

uled castes and scheduled tribes, because enee, states were reorganised on the basis in that state, he is not recognised as a of languages. But there are so many Ian· member person belonging to scheduled guages in our country. Even Hindi has a caste. I expect this Government to direct all number.of dialects, and the scheduled castes the state Governments to adopt the list of and scheduled tribes have different dialects backward classes prepared by the Centre and these are also the languages of this for this purpose in their states so that a country. For centuries, these people have person belonging to a scheduled caste or a hadtheir own culture and language and it will scheduled tribe may be recognised as such be unfortunate, if they have to lose these in all the parts of India to enable him to things after independence. As a medium of maintain his identity with his language, status, education, they have to opt for one of the 14 customs, traditions and way of I~e. Even if languages spec~ied in the Constitution. The someone changes his religion he should dialects of Scheduled Caste and Scheduled have the right to retain his language and way Tribe areas have not been recognised as of life, etc. yet. Other languages have developed. However, these people have craze for Eng- This is the position in respect of their lish. So I would like to urge upon the Govern- religion and caste, then they are not allowed ment to take steps to impart education in to exercise their right of vote. I have seen this scheduled castes and scheduled tribes ar- in many areas of Scheduled Castes and eas through English medium, so that they SchedufedTribes. Moreover, there are many may be brought in the main-stream. If they such persons, particularly from the ruling are ashamed of learning any other language parties, who, on the basis of their money and have so much craze for English lan- power and muscle power, compel the people guage, they should pressurize the Govern- of Scheduled Castes to cast their votes in ment for the provision of education through their favour. Though there is a large number English medium. Even great Sanskrit speak- of people belonging to Scheduled Castes ing scholars have to learn English to come at and Scheduled Tribes in India, they have not par with others and if these people start been given an equal status with the other learning Hindi, they will be left behind. When sections of people. Instead, to this day they even Hindi, Kannada or Punjabi speaking are treated not even as second class citizens persons are learning English, why should of the country. I would expect the new Gov- the people of Scheduled Castes and Sched- ernment to grant recognition to the people of uled Tribes learn Hindi. So, I would like tb Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes on request the Government that it should con- the basis of their caste to give them their sider the point of provision of English me- identity, so that wherever they go in the dium education for all the people of these country, they are recognised as such and communities in the scheduled caste and they may continue to avail all the facilities as scheduled tribe areas right from primary have been provided by the Government. education to higher education level, only During the British period, there was a sepa- then they will be able to come in the main- rate scheduled area for these people. They stream. had their own separate set of rules and regulations and no person from any other With these words, I conclude. caste was allowed to go there. But during the congress regime, attempts were being made SHRI RATILAL KALIDAS VARMA to disintegrate and disperse the people of (Dhandhuka): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I have Schedule Castes and Scheduled Tribes so been waiting for my turn to speak since 11 that they may come to the mainstream and A.M. I did not even go for lunch at 2 P.M. and lose their identity, culture and lang~age. now at 7 P.M. I have got the opportunity to Such attempts should be stalled. speak. I am happy as it is my maiden speech but at the same time it is a very unhappy After the country attained independ- situation to see that while we are discussing 223 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill DECEMBER 22, 1989 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 224

[Sh. Ratilal Kalidas Varma] tion in Gujarat and the burning of homes of harijans. This was a statement of a Con- such a major burning problem of atrocities gress tA~P. Congress Party has been in on the backward classes who are not feeling power in Gujarat and continues to be so safe even in their own homes because of the even now. Harijans are attacked there and agitation which has been started throughout their houses are burnt. the country, some hon. Members have left the house so that they could keep avoid What will be the condition in the other expressing their views here. Had all the parts of the country when such incidents are Members belonging to different parties were taking place In Gujarat. In 1987, 727 cases of present here, they could have known the atrocities on harijans were reported, out of reality of the allegation that due to reserva- which 13 cases were of murder and 18 of tion of jobs for the backward classes atld rape. When such is the condition in Gujarat facilities given to them candidates belonging and so many people have been kilied on one to other castes could not get jobs and remain year, what would be the condition in U.P. and unemployed. I would like to remind them as M. P. where an agitation is going on. As many I have the data pertaining to year 1987 with as 2879 criminal cases in M.P. and 4378 me. According to this, as against a total of criminal cases in U.P. were reported during 330 posts for reserved for scheduled castes 1987. In U.P. alone, there were 235 murder in grade A only 262 were filled. As against cases and 208 rape cases in 1987. When 233 reserved posts Scheduled Tribes, only this was the number of murders of harijans in 89 were filled. Similarly, out of 97 posts U.P., you can well estimate about the other reserved for Scheduled Castes in Grade B, places. In our country, the harijans and the only 76 posts were filled with S.C. candi- Scheduled Tribe people have been guar- dates and 28 with Scheduled Tribe candi- anted security underthe constitution. In spite dates.ln 1988, in theGroupA, the S.T. quota of that so large is number of murders and was 189, out of which only 157 posts were atrocities committed on them. Therefore, filled. In Group A, the Scheduled Caste had mere provisions of reservation for.them does a quota of 407 posts, out of which 346 were not serve the purpose. Stringent action shou Id filled. In Group B, only 1.11 of the total vacan- be taken against people who commit atroci- cies were filled up. ties on them or start agitations against them.

19.00 hrs. H this state of affairs is allowed to continue and atrocities continue to be commit- Thus we can see that their reserved ted on them, it will be very difficult forthem to vacancies have not been filled till now. I live in villages. The Government will have to regret to say that for the past 40 years, the post police personnel for the security of Congress Party has been making propa- harijans in each and every village. In orderto ganda that such and such rneasures have avoid such a situation, my submission is that been taken for the welf are of the harijans. As stringent steps should be taken against a resuft, not to speak of doing justice to them, people who spearhead such agitations. it helped in building an atmosphere of hatred against the Scheduled Caste and Sched- I also want to submit that the nephews uled Tribe people. Now people are agitating of the ex-Congress Member, Shri Gadhvi, against the reservations in Government jobs who was a Minister at the Centre and was made for these people. I hail from Gujarat, defeated at the polls this. time, committed where Gandhiji was born. But today it is atrocities on harijans, In his collage, women facing violence. Agitation started in Gujarat going outside the village to rel,ieve them- as a result of which the homes of thousands selves were stoned at and humiliated. Har- of harijans were burnt. The Congress-M.~ ijan women were raped. Therefore, no har- Shri Parmar had complained to Shrimati ijan is prepared to live in his village sam- Gandhi against the anti-reservation agita- _barda. 300 people of that village organised 225 Canst. (62nd Amdt.) Bill PAUSA 'I, 1989 (SAKA) Const. (B2nd Arndt.) Bill 226 gherao of the collectorate in Palanpur. rem ind the hon. Members about the time limitation. Secondly, I fully share the pain I would like to remind you that 3 harija', and concern of the hon. Members that it is a women had to deliver babies in the open. matter of deepest concern to all of us, namely, Even after 40 after of independence, wome~ about the condition and status of Scheduled belonging to scheduled castes have to gh"ta Castes and Scheduled Tribes and yet the birth to child on the roadside. The Govern- scope of the present Bill under discussion is ment under the Chief Ministership of Shr; a very limited one. The condition and status Amar Singh Chowdhary provided them nei- of scheduled castes and scheduled tribes is ther any security nor any assurance, wherea:s not under consideration. So, Ithought I should the B.J. P. provided them security. When the remind the hone Members about that also. time for Lok Sabha elections came, they told them to settle elsewhere as they are appre- [ Translation] hending defeat in the elections. Peoplo decided that the Scheduled Caste people SHRI KALPNATH RAI (Ghosi): Mr. under the Congress rute .... (lnterruptions) .... Chairman, Sir, the House does not have the quorum. Therefore. discussions on such a MR. CHAIRMAN: I would request the subject of great importance cannot be con- han. Member to be brief. tinued. When discussion on this amending Bill E:fxtending the period of reservation for SHRI RATILAL KALIDAS VARMA: another 10 years is being held, there is no Therefore both the reserved seats of the quorum in the House. This is not Rajya scheduled castes in Gujarat have been won Sabha but Lok Sabha and if the quorum is by the Opposition. not there, neither discussion nor proceedings of the House can go on. In the end, my submission is that the Government should take steps to check the [ERg/ish] atrocities being committed on the scheduled caste people, Shri Madhav Singh Solanki has again been made the Chief Minister by MR. CHAIRMAN: Let the quorum bell the Congress Party. This has perhaps been be rung ..... done to incite agitation once again so that the harijan again face trouble and come to _ the fold of the Congress Party. Whenever MR. CHAIRMAN: The quorum bell has the Scheduled Casts people have left the been rung twice. I find that the House does. Congress Party, agitation, murders and nl:>t have quorum. However, before I adjourn atrocities have taken place. I am saying this ttlS House, I would like to read out the list of with confidence on the basis of my personal names of Members who were scheduled to experience. piuticipate this evening and I would like their flClmes to be recorded for consideration of Mr. Chairman, Sir; I thank you very tho hone Speaker so that when the de~tt much for granting me opportunity to speak re~~umes on Tuesday, their names may.'W;~ and I also thank the hone Members who considered by the hon.. Speaker. These' _r', heard me with patience. thE' names of the Members who were here,' but have had no chance to speak. These are~; [English] Shr i K. 0 Sultanpuri, Shri S Serna, Shri Laeta Uml)reay, Shri P L Handoo, Shri Yuvraj, Shri MR. CHAIRMAN: Firstly, I would like to A.1 Bala and Shri Amar Roypradhan. 227 Const. (62nd Arndt.) Bill DECEMBER'22,1989 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill '221

It is for the consideration of tR..e hon. 19.17 hr•. Speaker to take this into account and accommodate them as well if time permits. Asthere is no quorum, the House stands The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Elev~ adjourned to meet on Tuesday, the 26th of the Clock on Tuesday, December 26, December, 1989 at 11 a.m. 1989, Pausa 5, 1911 (Saka)

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