Service Meeting with Chairs of the London PCCGs Wednesday 12th March 2008 at 5.30pm, 5th Floor Conference Room NSY

Present

MPS Personnel

Rose Fitzpatrick (Chair) Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Territorial Policing Rod Jarman , Territorial Policing Steve Allen Commander, Territorial Policing Raj Kohli Chief Inspector, Territorial Policing Keith Young Staff Officer to DAC Fitzpatrick Cathy Waller (Minutes) Staff Officer to DAC Fitzpatrick

Consultative Group Chairs

Sandra Flower Kingston (Chair) & Chair, London PCCG Forum Graham Holland Bexley (Chair) Anita Jakhu Brent (Member) Terry Belcher Bromley (Vice-Chair) Chris Fagg Camden (Member) Janet Marshall Enfield (Vice-Chair) Sonoo Malkani Harrow (Chair) Len Faram Havering (Vice-Chair) Elizabeth Beggs Hillingdon (Chair) Mohammed Chaudhry Hounslow (Chair) Karen Clark Kensington & Chelsea (Chair) Jim Toohill Lambeth (Vice-Chair) David Michael Lewisham (Chair) Saleem Sheikh Merton (Vice-Chair) Liz Pearce Redbridge (Administrator) Wendy Kyrle-Pope Richmond (Chair) Carole Atkinson Richmond (Vice-Chair) Althea Smith Southwark (Vice-Chair) Justin Moore Tower Hamlets (Acting Chair) Steve Williams Waltham Forest (Chair) Jo Weir Westminster (Central) (Chair) Peter Russell Westminster (Paddington & Marylebone) (Chair) John May LCP2 Richard Hunt LCP2

Apologies:

Apologies were noted from Barnet (Derrick Cheung), Croydon (Graham Speed), Ealing (Charles Gallichan), Greenwich, Islington (Jan Tucker), Newham (Jill Powell) and Sutton (John Turner).

1. Introductions and Welcome

Following introductions Rose Fitzpatrick welcomed all attendees to the meeting.

Following the sad news of the death of the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police, Michael Todd, a minute silence was observed. Sandra Flower suggested that a letter of condolence be sent on behalf of members and asked that any contributions be forwarded for inclusion within the condolence letter.

1 Metropolitan Police Service Meeting with Chairs of the London PCCGs Wednesday 12th March 2008 at 5.30pm, 5th Floor Conference Room NSY

Action: All members to forward any contributions to Sandra Flower.

2. Minutes of the last meeting (22nd November 2007)

The minutes were agreed subject to an amendment to page one: Jo Weir’s apologies to be noted. It was also suggested that the position held by members, i.e. chair or deputy chair, be noted in future minutes.

3. Matters Arising

3.1 Actions from the previous meeting

Rose Fitzpatrick confirmed that all actions arising from the previous meeting were complete. Members had been sent written responses to those actions arising from presentations delivered on safer neighbourhood strength figures and the MPS front counter project.

Rose advised that it had been agreed that meetings would have two focus items to allow adequate time for presentations and questions from members.

4. Section 44/ Stop and Search

Commander Rod Jarman advised that following the MPA’s publication last year of their scrutiny on MPS stop and search practices, he had been appointed to lead on the MPS response to the recommendations made. Commander Jarman advised that he led a team of hard working dedicated specialists who have developed excellent cross departmental and partnership relationships with partners such as the , the British Transport Police and intelligence colleagues. The stop and search power was recognised as an important tool to combat terrorism. Commander Jarman explained that research had shown that those responsible for terrorist acts also carry out reconnaissance visits and dry runs in advance of a planned attack. Both the police and the intelligence services recognise the need to be able to challenge their freedom of movement in order to prevent attacks and assist in intelligence gathering.

Commander Jarman advised that section 44 stop and search powers aimed to disrupt the terrorists freedom of travel and to make London a hostile environment for them to enter. Commander Jarman stated that the police required the trust and support of London’s communities to carry out stop and search powers and PCCG members play a key role in delivering this message. Whilst it was difficult to prove the success levels of stop and search in terms of measuring crime prevented, there was clear evidence that London is seen as a hostile environment for terrorists and section 44 powers attributes to this.

Commander Jarman provided members with an overview of the decision making process used prior seeking authorisation to use section 44 stop and search powers, which included an intelligence input from the Met Intelligence Bureau (MIB) and also from external intelligence sources. The Security Review Committee within the Specialist Crime Directorate review the threat level in London on a weekly basis and also have an input into the decision around where to deploy section 44 powers.

Commander Jarman advised members that stop and search data, which had not previously been released, were now accessible to community members and he provided members with the highlights from the most recent statistics. Appropriate

2 Metropolitan Police Service Meeting with Chairs of the London PCCGs Wednesday 12th March 2008 at 5.30pm, 5th Floor Conference Room NSY training for officers who carry out searches was discussed and Commander Jarman confirmed that this was a key issue – mentoring by experienced officers was an option that was being considered and some boroughs were adopting their own good practice initiatives such as role play exercises involving community members to assist officers.

The issue of disproportionality was discussed and it was recognised that it was not a simple issue and in some cases required the need to ‘drill down’ into the data on a borough-by-borough basis. Members commented that the involvement of the community in both training and delivery was vital.

Following a question raised around community monitoring and the impact of recommendations arising from the Flanagan report, Commander Jarman provided an overview of ‘stop and account’ and advised that this power was an alternative for officers to use at their discretion. Pilots were also ongoing to trial the use of shorter forms that lessened the impact on both officers and individuals being stopped.

A question was raised regarding discrepancies with TSG stop and search records. Commander Jarman explained that this matter was subject to review; however a contributing factor was that the TSG had a number of different approaches used at a number of sites which had an impact on data recording issues.

Following a general discussion, it was agreed that stop and search powers were extremely important but were also recognised as intrusive and therefore the quality of the interaction was paramount.

Action: Cathy Waller to circulate the website address for stop and search data.

4. Safer Neighbourhood Teams

Commander Rod Jarman delivered a presentation around the role of the safer neighbourhood teams and discussed some of the achievements that have been seen since their roll out across the MPS. Commander Jarman provided an overview of the safer neighbourhoods' seven-stage consultation model and commented that the significance of this model was the communities’ key role in deciding the priorities for their respective neighbourhood wards. Commander Jarman spoke about initiatives to reduce any levels of bureaucracy placed on safer neighbourhood officers, including a review of the form 302 and also the provision of a web based tool which is to be rolled out in April 2008 and will assist teams in developing their neighbourhood profiles.

Commander Jarman provided an overview of performance levels around local confidence in policing and advised that a massive improvement had been seen since the inception of the safer neighbourhood teams. It was recognised by the MPS that tenure and consistency of staff was a key issue and Commander Jarman outlined the staffing requirements of safer neighbourhood teams.

Commander Jarman advised that feedback received from communities was mainly around concerns of anti social behaviour. Commander Jarman advised that it was key for teams to recognise what was meant by anti social behaviour and how this behaviour could be targeted. Regular dialogue with community members was key and the MPS were working with an external training company to provide training to ward panels to help ensure that meetings were effective and productive.

3 Metropolitan Police Service Meeting with Chairs of the London PCCGs Wednesday 12th March 2008 at 5.30pm, 5th Floor Conference Room NSY

Members raised concerns around levels of beaucracy faced by safer neighbourhood teams, for example, completion of quality assessment forms. Whilst members recognised the need for such processes, it was suggested they could be done on a less regular basis to lessen the impact. A query was also raised regarding the content of forms circulated to volunteers to complete. Some individuals felt the level of personal data requested, such as sexual orientation, disability and marital status was objectionable. Members also raised an issue around safer neighbourhood meetings and the need for meetings to be closed and suggested fixed membership be explored as an alternative to closed meetings as this could send out a negative message. Following discussion, Commander Jarman recognised that safer neighbourhood sergeants had a busy workload; however from the example quoted it appeared the staff numbers within the safer neighbourhood team was unusually high. Commander Jarman stressed that he would not want individuals to disclose personal information that they were unhappy to provide, however the request for such data was to ensure that the MPS could demonstrate engagement with a representative selection of London’s diverse communities. Such data would also need to be gathered and used in a sensitive and proper way. Commander Jarman took an action to explore this issue further outside of the meeting. Commander Jarman explained the reasons behind the need for safer neighbourhood meetings to be held within a ‘closed forum’ in order that issues could be robustly discussed; however the outcomes arising from such meetings were open to public scrutiny.

Following a discussion around training requirements, Sandra Flower advised that the LCP2 annual plan included training workshops for neighbourhood panel chairs and there were also mentoring opportunities by PCCG members.

Action: Commander Jarman to explore the level of personal data recorded by Safer Neighbourhood Teams.

An issue was raised regarding the quality call back process and feedback from one member that receiving a call before the perpetrator had been apprehended had frustrated one individual. Commander Jarman outlined the reasons behind the call back process and the positive results to date; however he advised he would provide feedback to colleagues conducting a Citizen Focus review.

Action: Commander Jarman to provide feedback on the quality call back process to Citizen Focus Review Team.

Members raised the use of language around safer neighbourhood team staff being ‘ring fenced’. One member felt that this was inaccurate as staff were abstracted on occasion. A question was also raised regarding safer neighbourhood team strengths and staff on long-term sick leave. Commander Jarman advised that abstractions for pre defined events, specifically New Year’s Eve, Notting Hill Carnival and May Day were built into the neighbourhood policing model. Any other abstractions had to be fully justified and discussed with the Metropolitan Police Authority. Commander Jarman advised that officers on sick leave remained on the strength of their safer neighbourhood team as was standard practice for all teams; however he would be keen to hear any examples of officers already on long term sick leave being posted to safer neighbourhood teams.

4 Metropolitan Police Service Meeting with Chairs of the London PCCGs Wednesday 12th March 2008 at 5.30pm, 5th Floor Conference Room NSY

5. Agreed items for joint press release

Sandra Flower asked that members provide any items for inclusion within the press release to John May/Richard Thomas.

Action: Members to forward any contributions to John May / Richard Hunt.

6. Any other business

David Michael provided an update on a recent MPS Operation Trident evening held in Lewisham. Whilst the evening was useful, it would be very helpful if the MPS could consult with communities before presenting a final product. It was felt such an approach would assist with efforts around community partnership and engagement. Rose Fitzpatrick took an action to provide this feedback to the Trident Team.

Action: Rose Fitzpatrick to provide feedback to Operation Trident Team

7. Date of the next meeting

The date of the next meeting was Thursday 26th June at 5.30pm (refreshments available from 5.00pm) in the 5th Floor Conference room, New Scotland Yard.

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