Eleventh Series, Vol. I, No. 5 Tuesday, May 28, 1996 Jyaistha 7, 1918 (Sakal

LOK SABHA DEBATES (English Version)

First Session (Eleventh Lok Sabha)

(Vo1.1 contains Nos. f to 5)

LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW DELHl Shrl Swendn Mirhh Secretnry-Qenenl Lok Sabha

Shrhnall Rev8 Nayyar Joint Secretary Lok' Subha Soorehrirl

Shri A I? ChaknvafU Senbr Edltor

Smt. Kamh Shatma Shrl P.K. Shanna Editor Edkor

Shrl P.L. Bamrara Shri Rakeah Kurnrr Shri J.B.S. Rawat Asslstant Editor Asrhnt EdRor Assistant Editor CONTENTS [Eleventh Series, Vol I, First Session, 1996/1918 (Saka)] No. 5. Tuesday, May 28, 1996/Jyaistha 7, 1918 (Saka)

RE: POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVT. OF MAHARASHTRA AND DABHOL POWER COMPANY MOTION OF CONFIDENCE IN THE COUNCIL OF MINISTERS - Contd Dr Murh Manohar Josh1 S~IIMulayam Smgh Yadav Shr~Indraj~t Gupta Plof G G Swell Srnt Me~raKumar Shr~Surjeet Smgh Rarnala Shr~Jaswant Smgh DI Prabm Chandra Sarma Shr~Bolla Bull Rarna~ah Shr~Kansh~ Ram Shr~Pramothes Mukherjee Shr~G M Banatwalla Shr~Jal Prakash LOK SABHA DEBATES - - - - - .------.------

LOK SABHA tell his Party members, as to how they should cor~duct themselves. The rul~ngparty members should patiently hear the~rcolleague and should be ready Tuesday, May 28, 1996/Jyaistha 7, 1918 (Saka) to reply. (The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the Clock) Mr Speaker Sir yesterday we heard the Prime [MII SIV AKF 11 111 the Chair] Mln~sters speech He sald the Governments working should be transparent free from corrupt~onand ~ts outlook should be llberal Th~swas the glst of h~s speech Sir natlon and soclety can not be ~uilt MU SPEAKER Hon Members I haie a very merely by speeches Today we can not vlsualise the very specla1 request to you today The t~rneava~lable depths to which we are going at our d~sposal1s very I~rn~tedand we have to KUMARI UMA BHARTI (Khaluraho) Whv are conclude our debate by 12 45 PM at wh~chtlme the you making a speech? Prime M~n~sterw~ll reply to the debate W~thyour SHRl BENl PRASAD VERMA Mr Speaker Sir permlsslon I want to forego the Zero Hour and I agaln seek your protection It th~rulrng party Matters under Rule 377 but there are two Important member cannot be controlled by their leader the Issues whlch are souqht to be rased In the Zero Cha~rshould control them (Interrupt~ons)The Hour I propose to allow only those two Issues today proverb a gu~ltyconscience cannot shed off its and not Matters under Rule 377 We w~llstraightaway alarmed stance aptly applres on them resume the debate on the Cunf~denceMot~on (Interruptions) The then Government some years Mr Ben1 Prasad Verma and Mr Prlthvlraj Chavan back had approved the Enron project In thls Hciuce have ra~seda questton on the legltmary of a Cabln~t I wds not a member of th~sHouse at that time I was dec~slontaken yesterday on certa~npollcy matters a member of Legrslat~veAssembly of Uttar Pradesb So, I would allow Mi Hen1 Prasad Vernla and Mr But I came to know through the newspapers thar tt-E Pr~thv~rajChavan to raise 11 and later on MI Rani present rul~ngparty members In this House 'lad Na~khas a const~tut~onalissue to false 1 thlr~k two created a ruckus and trled to put the the-, of them are enough to ttldt I wr~uldleq~ost the Government In the dock and had levelled corruptlon F~nanceM~n~ster to claritv t11e :ltdatiun charqes When they k;iew that their Gove,~rr,entIS golng to collaixe today and the entlre Hohse knew (lnterr,ip tis!,s yesterday Itself that they did not habe tt~ema orlty SHRl SONTOSH MOHAN DEV 151lctlar1SII you tnen under what c~rcurnstancesdld they habe to take t,ave not sa~dwhat Mr Na~kuarits to rrtisp a dec~s~onregarding Enron?

MR SPEAKER MI Naik 15- to r;ilsr at1 Issue as [Eng/~shj to whether the Speaker can recclqnlse a leader c.1 !tie C!ppos~tlon before 1t1~Menlher tiad t;iken oath MR SPEAKER You have made yc~,r ioill I Ttils IS the legal questton wt~~chMr Naih has ralse tn~vk ~t I5 enough i would l~keto clar~fythat posltan 7herefcrrr I am ~~ll~w~ngMr Na~k also Now MI Vernia nlay spesk

SHRl BENl PRASAG VERMA me are a 'Tr~ns/at~on] dernocratlc natlon The party havrna a marcrltv onlv SHRl DAU DAYAL JOSH1 ~Kota~MI Speaker has the r~ghtto form the Goverriment ana assume ;lr a blast has occurred near Dausa ~lnterr~~tions power But Slr they do not have a rna~orQ sdcpcr! and therefore th~scontroversial power F.cie;t can MR SPEAKER I know not have been deemed to be approved Wbnt Has the urgency tor them to approve the ~rrlect'

11.O4 hrs MR SPEAKER Mr Verma thai 1s eno~~qPYou have made your po~nt HE POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENT HETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF MAHAHASHTRA [Travslat~on] AND DABHOL POWER COMPANY SHRI BENl PRASAD VERMA Slr I lhake a feeling that it 15 becowlng a contri?~ersialtopC throughout the ndllon rt sn~acks01 icrruptlon and SHRl BENl PRASAO VERMA (Kalserganl) MI pverywhere 11 IS h~lngsald that 2: ICE? crores "~eaker,Sir, I want the Leader of the rullng Party to have changed harrds What else can expla~nthe 3 Re Powsr Purchase agreement MAY 28, 1996 behveen Govt, of Maharashfra 4 and Dabhol Power Company need for taklng such a qulck decision? This [Translation] Government can make a speech against corruption. SHRl AMAR PAL SINGH (Meerut) : Mr. Speaker, But th~sGovernment should be removed quickly by Sir, I have given notice for Zero Hour ... votlng on the no-confidence motion. By doing so, MR. SPEAKER : Today, there will be no Zero you would be rendering a great service to the nation. Hour proceedings.

[English] [English] MR SPEAKER : Thank you very much. Yes, Mr SHRl S. MALLIKARJUN (Mehboobnagar) : Sir, I Prithviraj Chavan. have given a notice.

SHRl PRITHVIRAJ D. CHAVAN (Karad) : Mr. MR. SPEAKER . Yes. Speaker. Sir. I also want to bring to your attent~on THE FINANCE MINISTER (SHRI JASWANT the tearing hurry towards the all important decis~on SINGH): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am entirely and totally to approve the amended Power Purchase Agreement appreciative of the views of the hon. Members' - a (PPA) between the Government of Maharashtra and number of them - starting from my very good friend, the Dabhol Power Company whlch was taken at 1.15 eminent jurist, leader of the CPI(M) Party in PM yesterday while the Mot~oncf Confldence was Parliament and an inst~tutionIn Parliament itself, still being debated in the Lok Sabha (Interruption) Somnathji. It only reflects the alertness of the Opposition towards what the Government does. This SHRl ANlL BASU (Arambagh) : Sir I am also on is the essence of Parliamentary democracy. the same issue .. (Interruption) So, Sir, if the hon. Members have raised this SHRl PRlTHVlRAJ D CHAVAN Sir, you have issue, thelr concern should be lauded. I have no recogn~sedme Let me speak (Interrupt~oni Slr. difficulty in meeting the requirements of all the please allow me to speak (lnterrupt~on)We want to ~embers'ofOpposition and in explain~ngthe position know as to what was the tearlng hurry for a of the' Government because this Government is committed to openness, transparency and Government whlch IS yet to setk the confidence of accountability ...(Interrupt~ons) Broadly there are three the Lok Sabha to meet dur~ngthe Lunch Hour and aspects of it; what IS the factual poslt~onattending approve this amended Power Purchase hurriedly upon this position, what is the nature of Government Agreement There are ronfl~ctlngreports that there and what is the stand of th~sGovernment on the were pressure brought In by the Amer~can question of counter guarantee thls I think, is broadly Government there are reports that pressure was the thrust and direction of the concern of the brought by the Sh~v Sena Government In Opposition. I laud the concern because it grants us Maharashtra We want to know What IS the nexus an opportunity to expla~nwholly and to the between the approval 01 the PPA on the eve of the satlsfact~onof the House as to what the matter is. Motlon of Confldence and the Mot~onwhlch would F~rstly,Sir, I will talk about the factual position. be voted today? It is correct that the Union Cabinet has yesterday SHRl ANlL BASU Mr Speaker Slr, I am also on approved the amendments proposed by the the same Issue and may be perm~ttedto speak Government of Maharashtra In the power purchase . .(Interruption) agreement s~gnedbetween Dabhol Power Company and the Maharashtra State Electricrty Board. This is Sir, the Parliamentary Stand~ngComrnlttee on the first point The factual posltlon IS that the Dabhol Energy under the Chalrmansh~pof Shr~Jaswant project was ~nltiallyapproved by the previous Singh, who IS the Flnance M~nlsterof the present Government on 30th December, 1992. The power Government, unanimously dec~dedand submitted a purchase agreement was signed on 8th December, report to the Parl~amentof lnd~athat counter- 1993 and a proposal to extend a sovereign counter guarantees should not be gwen to the Fast Track guarantee for this project was cleared by the then Union Cablnet on 12.8.94. Work on the project pOwer projects Unfortunately In much angu~shand commenced subsequently in Aprll, 1995. Following agony, I would hke to draw the attention of the House a change of Government In Maharashtra, the to the speech of the hon Pr~meMmlster who sa~d, Government of Maharashtra decided to stop the work 'we tried but dld not succeed" Atter delwerlng the on Phase-l and undertook furth?r negotiations to speech he rushed to the Cab~netmeet~ng and improve the terms of agreement. Subsequently the approved the declslon wh~chIS agalnst !he splrlt of Government of Maharashtra appointed an expert the Conrtltution. White he says that 'he does not Committee to re-negotiate the project with Dabhol bellow In 'brlefcase culture', 1 am sorry to say that Pdwer Corporation. Following extensive renegotiation he belleves In 'gunny bag culture' (Interrupt~ons) the State Government obtained. Re Power Purchase agreement JYAISTHA 7. 1918 (Saka) between Govt 01 Mahorashtra 6 and Dabhol Power Company

SHRl SURESH KALMADI (Pune) You were convey here that the Central Electrlc~tyAuthor~ty and supposed to dump th~sproject Into the sea Whal !he M~n~stryexammed the revised arrangement and has happened? have conveyed the~rapproval to the Government of Maharashtra The rev~sedPhase-l of the project was SHRl JASWANT SINGH If the hon Member approved dur1n.g the t~meof the prevlous would exerclse some patlence I would answer every Government In the Cab~netmeetlng of 30th Apr~l, query 1996 Th~sGovernment has not taken any dec~sron Follow~ngextens~ve renngot~atlonthe State wh~hhas not earl~erbeen taken by the Government Government obtamec substant~alimprovements In What we have done IS consequent upon the dec~sron the agreement s~gnedearl~er (Interrupt~ons) and the request by the Government of Maharashtra to approve the changes In the PPA for the purpose SHRl ANlL BASU Mr M~r~~ster,would you please of counter-guarantee wh~chwd glven by the Un~on y~eldfor a m~nute') Government earl~erln Septe n? ber 1894 Sir under All these pomts were cons~deredIn the Sub- the terms of th~scounter-guarantee any change or Cornrn~tteeof th~spower project The F~nance amendment In the PPA requlres the approval of the Secretary wh~leglvlng the ev~dencesa~d that glvlng Un~onGovernment (Interrupt~ons) counter guarantee IS detr~mentalto the Interest of SHRl PRlYA RANJAN DAS MUNSl (Howrah) the nation All these aspects were d~scussedIn the We want to have a spec~f~creply The questlon posed Cornm~ttee and a unanimous Report was subm~tted by the hon Speaker shall only be answered and MR SPEAKER Mr M~nlster I th~nkthe l~m~ted nothlng else (Interruptrons) questlon here IS whether ~twas proper - or whether SHRl ANlL BASU Sir the only remedy ava~lable the propriety demands that when the Government to th~sHouse IS Art~cle74 of the Const~tutlon Art~cle IS In the m~dstof tak~nga Vote of Conf~denceto take 74 of the Constltut~onempowers the Pres~dentto such a major dec~s~onand 11 the Government had to send back the proposal to the Councll of Mln~sters take a dec~s~onwhat was the urgency for recons~deratlonThat IS the only course ava~lable SHRl JASWANT SINGH I am explaining to the House (Inferruptrons) prec~selythat I am expla~n~nythe rature of the MR SPEAKER Thank you very much Mr decls~ontanen (Interruptlonsi You must restraint M~nlster please be brlef them Sir SHRl JASWANT SlNGH Mr Speaker, this MH SPEAKER Please l~stento h~m Government s~mplyrathed - let me repeat th~s-th~s (Interrupt~ons) Government has s~mplyrat~fled a dec~slontakev by the prevlous Government llnterrupt~ons! SHRl ANlL BASU What 15 the locus stand1 of the Government (Interruptrons)

MR SPEAKER Let the M~n~steranswer MH SPEAKER SI~down your M~n~sterIS [Interrupt~ons) sland~ng MR SPEAKER Tt~eCha~r ~tself has posed a questlon Why are you compl~cat~ng117 Please s~t down Shrl Achar~ajl you are one ot the senlor most Members (lnterrupt~ons1 (lnterruptrons) MR SPEAKER Enough SHRl JASWANT SlNGH Sir I am attempt~ngto expla~nwhat IS 11 that the Cabmet has done and consequently I w~llexpla~n all these th~ngs What IS MU SPEAKER You have vent~la!ed v3ur vlews the dec~s~ontaken why was ~t taken and the Issue Please s~tdown Of sovereign counter-guarantees (Interruptrons) SHRl BASUDEB ACHARIA (Bankura) What was MU SPEAKER The Speaker is on his legs the urgency? (Interruptlons) SHRl SURESH KALMADI We want to know what was the urgency?. (Interrupt~ons) MR SPEAKER I think we must have some pat~enceto l~stento the reply of the hcn M~n~sterIf What was the moral author~ty SHRl ANlL BASU you are not sat~sf~edw~th the reply then later on you of the Government? can ralse, but let the M~nlster complete hls SHRl JASWANT SINGH I wlll expla~nthe explanat~on That IS the mlnlmum that the House dec~siontaken and for that 11 IS necessary for me to expects from all the hon Members Re Power Purchase agreement MAY 28, 1996 between Govt of Maharashtra 8 and Dabhol Power Company

AN HON MEMBER : I am on a point of order. The urgency was that if this decision is not taken, the matter goes into arbitration which will cause a MR SPEAKER . What is the point of order loss to the exchequer It automatically goes into under what rule7 arbitration. It is not a question of any new decision (Interruptions) taken. MR SPEAKER . There is no point of order. Show Secondly, the commitment of the Government of me the Rule book. lndia remains kept at Rs. 15,000 crore which was an agreement of the previous Government. Not a single paisa has been added to that commitment. MR. SPEAKER : Mr M~nister,please be br~ef Thirdly, it is in this background and to avoid a loss to the country, a loss of consequential power SHRl JASWANT SlNGH : I started saying that I production to the country, that this decision was think it is a reflection of the alertness of the taken...(Interruptions) Opposition There is one more aspect to it v~z.,about counter AN HON MEMBER I have a point of order I am guarantee and the nature of this Government. This on a po~ntof order (Interruptions) Government is comm~ttedto certain principles I do MR SPEAKER I am not allowing. Who sa~dI not wish to refer to the proceed~ngsof the Committee have allowed7 Please listen to the Mmister which my hon, friend Shri Basu has referred. It is because we have had the pleasure and privilege of working together in that Committee for three years and whatever report has come, that has been unanlmous. It is the tradition ot this House that SHRI CHATURANAN MISHRA mad hub an^) : Mr. . whatever transpires In a Committee is not normally Speaker Sir I am on a po~ntof order (lnterrupt~ons) referred to here There IS a techn~calpint in it ('lnterrupt~ons) [Eng/ish] SHRl NIRMAL KANTl CHATTERJEE iDum Durn). MR SPEAKER No po~ntL~I order It was a unanlmous Report. What IS wrong in that? SHRl JASWANT SlNGH As Cha~rmanof that Committee. Shr~N~rmal Chatterlee, you are aware SHRl CYATURANAN MISHRA My polnt of order what I have done and what I have not done I am IS :hat , interrupt~ons, aware of the Committee 5 Report I am also aware MFi SPEAKER Betcre raising any polnt of order when 11 was la~don the Table As far as the pr~nc~ple you shculd rnent~onthe rule under wh~chvou want ol counter guarantee is concerned, th~sGovernment to ralse 11 has expl~c~tlystated that the pr~nc~pleof counter guarantee is not acceptabie to our Government But SH91 SHATURANAN MISHRA My polnt of crder we have ~nher~tedthe continuing respons~b~lityand I: tb at i.isp~te of the order of the Speaker the cur Government continued w~ththe respons~b~lityof M~niste. ,nstead GIplving a straight reply IS going counter guarantee wh~chrests squarely w~ththe ~rlto!he history Thls flouts vour order Th~sIS my prevlous Congress Government pc~ri: of crder (inlerrupt~ons~ MR SPEAKER No no Th~sis no polnt of order So we have inherited commltrnents of the prevlous Government Even when we are In d~sagreementwith those mherited commitments and Inherited agreements we have to uphold them It IS SHE1 CHATURANAN MISHRA Your order because the Government of lnd~ais a continuing sho~ldnot be flouted (lnferrupt~ons) entity and the Government of lndia can neither revoke MR SPEAKER Le! the Minister speak Your nor go back on agreements committed by the Min~steris speak~rg previous Government simply because 11 is a polit~cal issue Sir I commend to the hon the Prime Mmister [E~glishj that 11 was a great decision, ~t was a decislon In the Interest of lndld ShRl JASWANT SlNGH Let me repeat . all that ths Government has done 1s to ratify the rev~sed A po~ntwas made about the nature of the PFA wi-~t:.!, the earl~erGovernrnent has already Government An eminent jurist rased ~t He knows apprcvad Wtiy have we rat~f~edit S~r'i It is not rnore than any one else that the Constitut~onmakes pending w~tt,ttie Government of Maharashtra This no d~st~nct~onbetween a Government that has to win. niatt~rhas been pend~ngw~th the Government here a Vote of Conf~denceor has not committed anything for the last three months wrong This Government was fully conscious en the Re. Power Purchase agreement JYAISTHA 7. 1918 (Sake) between Govt of Maharashtra 10 and Dabhol Power Company question of propriety. I assert, Sir, that this decision RE: RECOGNITION OF THE LEADER OF THE was in the national interest. It was a decision that OPPOSITION we took to uphold the commitments of the previous Government. That is what we want not more than that. [English] SHRl BlJU PATNAIK (Aska) : Sir, regarding the SHRl RAM NAlK Sir, I want to rase an Important decision taken on the question of counter guarantee, constltut~onalIssue, also an Issue w~threference to I would like to say that the last date was supposed our rules and from the point of view of parl~amentary to be next month. etiquettes and conventions It IS about the appointment of the Leader of the Oppos~tlon The date was next month so what was the hurry, (Interrupt~ons) that I would like to ask from the Government . .(Interruptions) SHRl SRIKANTA JENA Slr can any Member ralse a questlon on the declslon of the hon Speaker? SHRl SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (Silchar) . We are That IS a questlon on the decls~onof the hon neither surprised nor shocked over what has been Speaker (Interruptions) done, that is the perception of this Government. But, since they have mentioned about our Government's' MR SPEAKER Please he IS askmg a question decision and that they are very keen to implement it, and I thmk ~t IS qu~teall r~ght I would also like to draw your attention to the (Interrrrptions) attempt that was made by our Government to bring an ordinance on the Dalit Christians and your MR SPEAKER ~dneon. I w~liclarify that delegation ..(Interruptions) Let me finish SHRl RAM NAlK Sir, ~t IS about the appomtment ...(Interruptions) of the Leader of the Opposltlon w~thvetrospect~ve MR SPEAKER Please, do not ralse this Issue effect from 16th May The Members 01 th~sHouse I think the debate IS concluded Yes, Mr Na~k have taken oath on 22nd Sir when a person becomes a Member of the House then only he can SHRl JASWANT SlNGH Slr let me clarify on become the Leader of the Opposrt~on So I want to behalf of th~sGovernment and 11 the hon Member invlte your attention to Kaul and Shakdher remembers very well, no ordinance was brought by the prevlous Government (Interruptions! MR SPEAKER I do not th~nk~t IS requ~redI am very clear about your questlon MR SPEAKER No, ~t IS closed SHRl RAM NAIK Slr, I have to SHRl RAM NAlK (Mumbat North) Mr Speaker Slr I would lrke to ralse an important Issue MR SPEAKER . You do not have to refer to that (Ihterruptions) MR SPEAKER Let us listen to hlm Please SHRl RAM NAlK Slr I have to argue listen to h~m (Interruptions) (Interruptions MR SPEAKER 1 have understood your MR SPEAKER . Yes, Mr Jena questlon 1 do not thlnk that I require 11 SHRl SRIKANTA JENA (Kendrapara) Mr SHRl RAM NAlK Sir I want to expla~nit Speaker. Sir, the quest~onwh~ch was ra~sed MR SPEAKER They have a vahd po~ntwhether . . (Interrupt~ons) the Speakgr's declslon can be ralsed on the floor ot MR. SPEAKER I am not hear~nganything the House In spite of that I have allowed you SHRl RAM NAlK Slr 11 the procedure was wrong (lnterruptfons) I have every r~ghtto br~ngto your not~ceand from SHRI SRIKANTA JENA Sir the quest~onwhlch that pomt of vlew I am brmglng it (Interrupt~onsJ was ralsed by Shrl Ben1 Prasad Verma and Shr~ SHRI RAM VlLAS PASWAN (Hajlpur) Sir thls Chavan IS not the questlon on the merits of the case w~llset a wrong convention (lnterrupt~ons) The questlon IS 'what was the hurry7 [Interruptions) SHRl RAM NAlK Slr a person becomes a MR SPEAKER I have closed thls chapter Member of the House only when he takes an oath or (Interruptions) atflrmat~onIn the House accord~nglo the Constrtutlon Article 99 very categorically says MR SPEAKER No, I have closed this chapter Yes. MI Nalk, please carry on "Every Member of elther House of Parliament shall before tak~ngh~s seat, before the President or some person appolnted In that behalf by hlm an oath or afflrmat~on MR. SPEAKER Order, please accord~ngto the form set out for the purpose in the Thud Schedule' 11 Re Power Purchase agreement MAY 28. 1996 between Govt of Maharoshtra 12 and Dahhol Power Company

So, Sir, the President has appolnted a pro tom whatever has been practised, I feel that a clarification Speaker to conduct the busmess of the House Now, is required about the appointment of the Leader of when can a Leader of the Oppos~t~onbe appomted? the Opposition. I have no personal grudge against The Leader of the Opposlt~oncan be appolnted only him, which I must clarify. But I thought that it is a when he takes the oath Now, when d~dhe take the valid point whic' has to be brought to your notice. oath7 He took the oath on 22nd May (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Please listen. This House has MR SPEAKER l am here Why are you worried? two sides-the treasury benches and the Opposition. SHRl RAM NAlK Slr, he took the oath only on The leader of the treasury benches IS known as the 22nd May When we the Members, were bemg called Leader of the House. When does he become the to take the oath the then Speaker from the Cha~r Leader of the House? He becomes the Leader of the has sa~dthat the Pr~meMlnlster would take the oath House when he has taken the oath as the Prime flrst and then the Leader of the Opposltlon Thst Minister of this country. The Speaker aulomatically means the Leader of the Opposltlon was appolnted recognlses the Prime Minister as the Leader of the before takrng the oath House. Now the th~rdImportant point 1s thls Tho The Prlme Minister did not take the oath as a precedent of taklng the oath IS that the Prlme Mlnlster Mombor when he was taking tne oath. has to take the oath flrst then ~t IS followed by tha Cablnet M~nlstersand then by the Leader of the House MA SPEAKER Please llsten to me now When I am glvlng niy rullng, you please llsten to me MR SPEAKER I thlnk, you have made your carefully It 1s a very lmportant polnt you have ralsed po~nt I am grateful to you because there should not be any SHRl RAM NAlK That precedent was not doubt In the m~ndsof the people of the country followed here Now what remains IS, from 22nd May Therefore, as soon as the Prlme Minister IS swo,n- he could have been appolnted as the Leader of the In, the Speaker recognizes h~rnas the Leader of the Opposltlon after taklng the oath But he has been House and the Prime Mlnlster 15 recognlzed as the appo~ntedw~th retrospective effect from 16th May Leader of the House before he has taken the oath when none had taken the oath So my pomt IS that or made afflrmatlon as a Member of Parl~amentThe unless he has taken the oath he cannot be the same analogy appl~esfor the Leader of the Leader of the Opposll~on Opposlt~onWhat happened In the Tenth Lok Sabha7 Slr my last polnt IS that there IS a difference I am not golng to glve you many alguments though between a Mlnlster tak~ng the oath and the Leader I have not many of the Oppos~t~ontaklng the oath The Pres~dent (Interruptions) appolnts a Min~ster The Mln~stersare appolnted MR SPEAKER What happened In !he Tenth But here the Leader of the Oppos~t~onIS not to be appolnted by the Pres~dentbut by the hon Speaker Lok Sabha7 We have a precee-nl I am tell~nqyou I know that vou have not appolnted hlm as such In the Tenth Lok Sabha the PV Naras~rnha nao because you have taken the Chalr only after Government was sworn-ln on 2tst of June 1991 On that (interrupt~onst 27th of June 1991 the BJP wh~chwas the slngle largest Party after the Rullng Party wrote a latter a SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (Bobur) He has letter duly stgned by Dr L M Pandey to the eftect not appolnted hlrn He has recognlsed that Mr L K Advan~has been elected as a Leader h~m1 lnterrupt~ons) of thelr Party and that he may be recognlzed as the SHRl RAM NAlK Slr, the polnt whlch 1s very Leader of the Oppos~t~onfrom the day the Pr~rne relevant IS whether from anti-date, that IS from 16th Mlnlster took oath that IS 2151 of June 1991 And May the Leader of the Opposltlon can be appolnted the Speaker correctly recogn~zedhlm There IS no and from that polnt of vlew I am ralslng thls I hope change In the posltlon of Tenth Lok Sabha and the that keep~ngIn vlew In the tradlt~ons (Interruptrons) Eleventh Lok Sabha

[Translation] [Trans la tion]

KUMARI UMA BHARTl Mr Speaker, Sir In SHRl AMAR PAL SlNGH Mr Speaker. Sir, ~t IS Madhya Pradesh a Dallt woman was strlpped off a very Important matter regarding economlc condltlon and paraded (Interrupt~ons) of the sugarcane growers Please allow me to speak for two mmutes (Interruptions) [English] KUMARI UMA BHARTl Mr Speaker Slr, In the SHPI RAM NAlK Keeplng in vlew the best Bhmd d~strlctof Madhya Pradesn a woman of Kom parliamentary trad~tlons, keep~ngIn view the caste was str~ppedoff and paraded In the ent~re Constltutlon and keeping In vrew the rules and vlllage She was beaten Thls IS not the flrst lncldent 13 Re Power Ptrrchase agrsernent JYAISTHA 7. 1918 (Saka) between Govl of Maharoshtre 14 and Dabhol Power Company

Ever since the Dlgvljay Smgh Government came to MR. SPEAKER I entlrely agree wlth you I agree power, th~shas become common The honour of with Somnathji. Dal~ts,Adlvasls and of the~rwomen IS not safe In DR. MALLIKARJUN When I saw the paper, I Madhya Pradesh Hence, ~t IS my demand that the sa~dthat I had asked the negot~at~ngcommittee to Madhya Pradesh Government should be d~sm~ssed revise the prlce and security be prov~dedto the Harljans and Ad~vas~s of Madhya Pradesh (Inlerrupt~ons) MR SPEAKER No It 15 enough We cannot take cognuance of what the newspapers are wrlt~ng [Engl~sh] THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (DR MURLl MR SPEAKER Okay MI tlome M~n~sterplease MANOHAR JOSHlj Sir, th~sshould be ren~ovedfrom take note of what Umajl 1s saylng the records

Hon Members 1 have one more nollce to be MR SPEAKER I w~llgo through ~t d~sposedof under Rule 357 Th~snotice 1s qlven by hon Member Shr~Mall~karlun DR MALLIKARJUN (Mahhubnaqar) Sir when MH SPEAKER Not today I b~avetaken the the august House IS s~tting I felt ~t 1s my moral permlsslon of the House r~ghtIn the beginning respons~bll~tyto c lar~fyabout the reported news Items In H~ndustanT~rnes Sir a declsion was taken to remake the submar~neR77 EKM S~ndhuveerIn September 1995 The dec~s~c~ndoes not mean PROF PREM SINGH CYANDUMAJRA (Patialal negot~atlonswere completed negotlatlons had I have glven a notlce In writing I+ is a very Important commenced F~nallyth~s f~le was subrn~ttedto me on Issue regard~ngDunjab 27lh March 1996 MR SPEAKER All -1gh1 another flve rrlinutes THE MINISTER OF FINANCE lSHRl JASWANT I1 the text ha< been apprrved by tke Secretar~atI wlL SINGH) One mlnule pl~as~I entlrely apprec~ale honour that though In the beginn~ngI sa13 'I21 we what he IS Irylng tr~sdy :)r, c-rrJl r~c~ris)Ye IS would prcceed with the d~scusslor referring In a newspappr statement In the House SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE After aii your (Inferrc~ptions)You lust I~qtento me dec~s~on15 there You have sa~d!ha: afte: twz cr DR M4L L IKAHJLIN IMat~t~ubnaqar ! ,in1 not three rnent~onsthe discuss~onwl!l be taker- SF: What rnak~ng a statc~n~~ntMr Speaker I war11 a IS th~sgolng on? I! IS a nlake belleve s~tuationIn thts clar~t~cat~on country There 1s no 3overrrrienf I a malority iifter:up:ions, What 1s this go~r-gc;n here7 MR SPEAKER l tt~~nknuth~n3 lr +)r):,d ~nouqki MR SPEAKER Tha! 1s why r~suasteor~gh! In I Interrl~p:~on:. the morning at the cornrnencen-en1 :?! IF. Sess~on MR SF'EAKLR I do not lt~tnkIIIF Iiouse car, for cooneratlon Ir! craer to gain t~rne kun we sh?~lId lake coqnlzance 01 what 11~1stieen wr~lterl ID the st~cktv !ha! The +ii.use djd ni.! oblect 10 mv newspaper and Malhkarjunii ue cannrt do that anriouncernent at tkit' tiTie Yi>i~all leader> shcirid stick to that declslon SHRl SOMNATll LHATTFR ILL (Polpur 8 The House canrlot take (c)gri~zanceof wt dt $s urlften in MI Home M,n~sler the newspaper (lnforru~trons~

MR SPEAKER You do not w,rry about that

DR MALLIKAR.IIIN hlridly thear one MR SFEAKER I have ruled 11 i'~!I! wll IGI be taken up t~day sentence Or1 27th March the lllr #CI~ ..utrn~~ttedtci me I deferled ftic dec~sltin#I~tct, rtiould be t,ik~ri by the new Governnient as kr~tllrlt 11n1e elert~oris had be~nannounc ed (lr)t~~wpI~~~rt.~When I frrund PROF F ,I KURIEN :Ma~ei~h~r3I M r that the prlce rioqot~at~rinwhs not final I find ahhed Speaker ,~ll:~~r~'~f/c~?S' the Negot~allnq( omnilttee to trvlrw tt~eprlce terms by 12 per cent MR SPEAKER Snr~kcirieri \~LIcar\r30t go agalnst the ccnhensus 01 the house ;'I? )~?LJs~has MH SPFAKEH I do not th~rihthat the House aqrepd that I! u~llnil! tje taken ~y The bods- a! 'he c dn tdkr rln~zarict. ol wb~al\#oil t~air~:.ad heglnning Itself has agreed !hat 11 car!).!' be lahen up Why are you cfeatlng tt-IS protlerr7 rlease SI: Stihl .lA\WANT YlNGH T11l.s IS rr~ont~onedby a down newspaper (Interrc~plions1 - - - 15 Motmn of Confidence MAY 28. 1996 Mot~onof Confidence 16

11 A8 hrs. very short term. But I would like to say that Shri Vajpayee would also be remembered for clean and MOTION OF CONFIDENCE IN THE COUNCIL value based politics and for building a consensus OF MINISTERS - CONTD. on the basis of programmes. Shri Murasoli Maran had clearly stated that Shri Vajpayee is the only Prima Minister who has tried to evolve a consensus MR SPEAKER We will now resume further on the basis of programmes and has not resorted d~scusslonnn the Motlon ot Confldence In the Councll to dubious means to get votes on the Motion of of Mlnlsters Mr Home Mlnlster Confidence. We have refrained from horse-trading and instead, tried to build a consensus. But today attempts are being made to reverse the mandate of SHRI INDGAJ17 GLJPTA (Mldnapore) : It seems 1996. It 1s a mockery of mandate. It has been stated that they do not respect the Chair or anything. that the mandate is in favour of secular forces Which are the secular torces, and for which secular forces the mandate has been given? Which Party has THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (DR MURLl contested the election on the basis of secularism? MANOHAR .IOSHI) Mr Speak?! Sir the Motlon of Some parties contested elections on the basis of Confldence In the Counc~lof M~nlsters1s under local Issues, some on the Issue of corruption and conslderatlon of the House Yesterday the Hon'ble some contested among themselves. Yesterday. Shri Prlme Mlnlster had referred to the facts In this regard George Fernandes had clearly read out your and expressed h~sviews clearly before the House manifestoes which revealed your views in regard to about the mandate of 1996 There are two aspects secularrsm It 1s clearly mentioned therein what you of th~smandate F~rstthe rullng Congress Party, d~d have stated about the Congress party and what the not get majorrty and rather sllded lo second posltlon Congress have stated about you In regard to AN HON MEMBER That has been declded by secularism. Whlch secular forces have united now? the people please go ahead Is it secular~smto form a Government with the DR MURLI MANOHAFi JOSH1 The second support of Musllrn League? Is ~t secularlsrn to work aspect of the mandate was that the Bhartlya Janata with those Partles, whlch were responsible for division Party ewerged as the Single largest party Slnce of the country? Is ~t secularlsrn to work wlth those none of,the part~esqot absolute rriajor~tythe Hon ble people who adopted indifferent attltude in Shah Bano Presider , ucder such a circumstance lnvlted the case?, (!nterr[iptrans! Please Ilsten? Mr Speaker Sir. Bhartlya Janata Party to 'arm a Government and the I seek your protection Prlme Mlnlster accepted thls respons~b~l~tvI would like to clarify tnat when none of the parties gets [Engl~shj absolute rnajoVv the Hcn ble President explore the PROF PJ KURIEN (Mavel~kara) Have you any poss~L~lltiescf formitior of such 2 Government whrch Idea about the Musllm League In Kerala ') They are ?auld rule t4e cauntry on the basls of popular a secular party Do not brand a secular part as mandate By v~rtueof being the s~nglelargest party communal the Gbartrya Janata Party accepted this responslbllrty and make honest ef+~rtsto evolve a consensus on the basls of programmes and pollcles Through the Address of the Yon ble Presldenl to the pn! slttlng DR MURLl MANOHAR JOSH1 I know rt You rjf both h3u5~5effcrts were made to bulld a please llsten to me A dlscusslon should be held on consensus on the bas15 cjf programmes and present secularism and Mlnorltlsrn What 1s the meaning of such a programme before the natlon whlch could be Secularism? Does ~t mean mlnor~t~srn?Volces have implemented unanlmously by us But I regret that been ralsed about the Interpretallon of Hlndutva Instead of understanding our hor,es!y faith and value- H~ndutvahas been clearly detlned by the Supreme based politics efforts are be~ngmade to level Court Hlndutva IS a way of llfe It would be wrong different allegat~ons tb compare ~tw~th any communrty or rellg~onI would llke to tell all of you that the words 'H~ndutva 11 .S2 hrs. lndlanness and Bhartlyata are the same and there (Stir1 PM Sayee ~n the charr) 1s only a d~fference of words and language, and nothlng else One of my frlerids frorr West Bengal bhri Somnath Chatterjee who 1s a famous Jurist had Besldes the judgement of the Supreme Court, stated yesterday that Shrl Valpayee would be Shr~Khan, who was the son ol Late Khan Abdul remembered as a Pr~meMln~ster holdlng offlce for a Gaffar Khan (Interruptrons) Mollon 01 Conhdence JYAISTHA 7, 1918 (Saka) Mollon of Confidence 1 R

[English] In another speech del~vcr~dat Lahore Irl 1084 Srr Saye~dAhmed Khan extr~catedthe two-natron SHRI RAMESH [;HENNITHALA (Kottayarn) . I am on a point of order. Rule 356 of Rule of Procedure theory In deta~land I quote says: 'These are rhe d~fferentqro:~nds upon whlch I call both the comrnunrt~es wh~r.b rnhabtt The Speaker, after hav~ngcalled the attent~or~of lndra by one wr rd I e Hlndu rneanlng that the House to conduct of a Member whcr persrsts In they are ~nhabltantsfit H~ndustan irrelevance or in tedious repet~trori of h~sown arguments, or of the arqurnents used by other He sa~dthat 11 you all yrrurq~lf Hlndu Members in debate, may d~rectto drscontlnue hls IInl~rrupt~~r~.~) speech. (Inlerrupt~ons) He lCl repesl~nqwhat Mr Vapayee has referred Mr Vajpaye~has referred all SHRI HAM VILAS PASWAh (Rosera~ Josh1 ]I these polnts Thrs 1% ledlous and Irrelevant One second (Int~rrupt~ons~ repetttlon (Interrupt~ons) So please drrrcl h~mto d~scontrnue DR MURLl MANOHAR JOSH1 Please s~tdown Hlndi or Indlan are same words and convey the same rneanlnq but rn a d~fferentform Please s~toown Now when I am speak~r~g,you please keep qu~el DR MlJHLl MANOHAH JOSH1 Mr Speaker. Sir Now. ~t IS fmy turn. you please listen Vdhen you were I quote speak~ng.1 l~stenedto ycu qu~e?lyThe Prime M~nister had clar~f~edIh~s polnt yesterday and ssrd !hat this word reflects :tie bas~csptrrt of ths rountry H~ndutva 'Facts are Facts-The Untold Story of Indra s IS the rn:lst ennobling experlnien! uf spir;?ual CG- Partilron' hy Stir1 Wall KI-~ari ex~stence It 1s the greatness cf this courtry The ludgement qtven ty the Suprenie Cour! has maoe ~t ~learthat ttiere IS nc: need !o say anything further about the t4:ndutva jlnte:ftip!~o~s!Secondly (/nterrur;r~ons.'we st~culdalso try la understand secularism and mnorlty~sm 9JP bel~eves?hs! II would nS go !or 1k1e appeasenent nf a pa:t~tu!ar graup We WOU~:~nc! gave ro3rr to d:scr~mrnat~on ancl would give 1ust1r.e ts all Wherever ouv par?)! IS For In?,tance in I-115,sprrrti by Sir 5aveed Ahmed in power no su~h~nc~dert has taken lace and n:: Khan at Guarrlasp~rr cn 27111 January lBR4 corripla~nthas been reg~sleredbefore the M~nor~t~es reproduced on page 330 (?'the (ollect!

the :,ame nation " that we want to protect hurnan riqt,ts Wnat otject~on 19 Mohon of Conhdence MAY 28. 1996 Motion of Confidence 2 0

12.00 hrs. of Muslims killed durrng this was one and that too because there had been a riot ...(lr~terruptions) Would you have for 11') You flnd communal~smIn People, here are claiming to be the protector of thls also (lnterruptrons) In thls also you minorities. I do not want to place the figures of all (Interruptions) You have go! only one point the State before you, but only Uttar Pradesh. programme (Interrupt~ons)Therefore you should see what are you dolng (Interrupt~crs)You say that your A reference has been made about downtrodden. This Government IS very considerate and sympathetic secularism has un~tyYou say that secular forces are towards poors and wants to work for them. They are one but what I find IS that there are reports comlng ask~ngsupport of the party sitting in front of us for in newspapers some say that they should be the purpose. Now I would give you some figures Included In cornmlttee and the communist party says regarding poors What have they done to them. that we wculd not be to work rf they are Included If .('lnterrupt~ons)In 1987-88 percentage of poors In they are Included In the comm~tteethey would adopt our country was 39 and In 1993-94 also ~t remained the polic~esof Conqress only So and so should not 39 percent These are officlal figures. But see the be Included In the cabinet whereas certain persons difference, In 1987-88 percentage of rural poors, should be ~ncludedSomeone says that 11 he 1s given was 39 as against 40 in urban areas. During 1987- the charge of Mlnlstrv of F~nancethen we would not 88 the villages were prosperous and town poor. In joln you (Interruptions) Someone has gone to the 1993-94 percentage ot rural poors Increased and extent that rf Co-ordination Comm~tteeIS conslrtuted reached to 40 whereas In urban areas it came down and Shri Naraslmha Rao IS included In ~t to 369b means the v~llagesnow are .(lnterrupt~ons) and (Interrupt~ons)Th~s IS an opportunity to exercise rural poverty has Increased . (lnferruptions) remote control for Conqress (Interruphons) You have Please Ilsten. (Interrupf~onsj had a lot of opportunlt~es (Interruptions) It IS be~ng Please listen to me (Interrupt~onsj said that they would run We Congress Government by proxy We would not joln this I would llke to k~ow [Engl~sh] that have you got yodr prograrrvne chalked out7 So MR CHAIRMAN Please 511down I am on my many days have passeu and every day there 1s a legs news that 11 would be tclrrn~iated wlth~na week At tlm'es we are told that I' ho~ldbe prepared In the evenlng and a: other tlnie ,r the morning What 1s your proaranr;e" Whdt 15 )our programme includmg [Transla tion] your eronorr~~trcc~r~r~@s n~don what points you SHRl MURLl MANOHAR .JOSH1 Mr Chairman. are havlnc ~ir*~~n 11) ~~rfil!lupt~onsI Yes 11 has Str I was tell~ngthat In what plt~ablecondition the been for~ula~tdWP d: n~'know It would be In economy of the country IS Duri?g the reglme of your hcn e , r'@r.Llj;trrri~ Y:)~J don 1 have unanimity prev~ousGovernment the rupee was devalued In anv of 'he prccllzmrre Irile~ri~ptions) foreiqn loan Increased mlll~onsdo not have drink~ng water and there 1s sprlous threat to the security of 12.02 hrs the country That IS why our Pr~meMln~ster has asked for co operation of all HP has sought cc~.operatlon tStr~Ski1i;t bash 11- the Chair1 of all the countrymen to protect weaker and the poor of the country To Improve the economy of the country You say tna! I! 15 q~~estlr,nof grvlng protection to and to malntaln peace and order In the country and the rrllncrrt!es There had been fclur Governments in also for establishment of pol~cybased system he Mar Praaest~Fro91 7 6 @0 13 1" E2 there had been has asked co.operation of all He has started a new Congress Gsvernrner,! Durrrig 1111sper~od on an beg~nning In the changed polrtlcal scenario average 8 rnusl~n~sper r~or:lt~were k~lledin (Interrupt~onsjF~rst time slnce independence, a new ccmmunal riots I ~r~ter:uptions: C~ngress is sltuat~onhas arlsen In Lok Sabha and to solve thls respons~blefor 11,s They were In power at that problem he has evolved a new niethod of worklng tlme ;inlerruptlons; Second Government remamed by consensus and rriutual co-operation Yesterday. it there frorr~25 h E8 t~.4 12 E9 Ihe average number was told that we to strengthen the Centre and weaken sf rnusl~mskilled ourlng trlis perlou was 3 Then the slates and want to bring un~formltybut that 1s during the reglrrle of next Government wtrose Ch~ef absolutdy wrong Strong centre IS one th~ngand Mlrlrs?er !s sltt~ngrlere anrl wtii~bruled fron1.5 12 89 flex~blecentre IS another !:J !:J 23 6 9' average riurrlbur r,f Muslims k~lledwas We do not want weak centre we want flex~ble 17 per rn.~r,!h finterr~ptionsiI would like to know Centre we want cordial relations between the Centre whlcn arithmat~c iinterrupl~ons)then there had been and States We want lo analyse these relallons In B?F. Governn~en?frorr 54 E 9; to 6 12 92 and average terms of recommendat~onsof Sarkarla Cornm~ssron 2 1 Motion of Confidence JYAISTHA 7, 1918 (Saka) Motlon ol Confidence 22

I would like to ask the leader of Oppos~tionwhether House. He has taken recourse to such means. Didn't he IS in favour of a weak Centre BJP is supporter he called a nieetlng near the Guest House of of such a system In wh~chCentre and State strenthen Haryana the day before yesterday? I am proud that each other (Interrupt~ons) Ne~thershould anybody none of the leaders of our constituent parties were work under somebody s d~ctatorshipnor should lured by your. (Interruptions) anybody be suppressed The Centre and States both SHRI SHARAD YADAV (Madhepura) . You'can should work together in accordance wlth the give reply to rt when it is your turn const~tutionalprovisions made to Govern the country, and thus stronger States would make the Centre THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRI ATAL BlHARl more strong And a stronger Centre would lead to VAJPAYEE) Mr Chairman Sir. Mulayam Singh JI more help to States These relations should be has for the f~rsttlme become the Member of th~s tlex~ble House Whatever he says and In wti~chmanner (Interruptions) [Englrsh] SHRl MUKHTAR ANTS (S~tapurj What is he We stand lor a flexlble Centre but not for a weak saylng (Inlerruptions) Centre (Engl~sh] [Translaf~on] MR CHAIRMAN Please listen to your leader A weak Centre would create problems for the country Prev~ousGoverrin~en: adopted a pol~cyof [Translafron] weak Centre the results of whrch are evident What SHRI ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE Mr Cha~rman IS happening In Kasl~rnrr"Co~~ntry IS at the verge of Sir what arguments are Serng advanced from that d~saster economy tlas bee? weakened Therefore I srde (Interrupr~onsl support the rr~otlori 1 request :~ll of you to adopt the I would like to refute the charge and say that I policy of corisensus In pc~l~trcsand varlous d~dnot even th~nkof Haryana Guest House what to programmes so that a new beqin~ngcan be ~n~tiated speak about gorng there In the country I wo~~ldlike to conqratulale the Prrrne Minister that he has bc;ldly iri~t~ateda new proLess In pol~t~csHistory wo~lldalways rerr~ember 11 wit11 th~sI suppc)rt tt~~srr~otion MR CHAIRMAN Srt down please I aw on my legs SHRI MULAYAM SINGH YAOAV iMa~npuril Mr Chairman Sir I rrLe to oppose the MO~ICJ~of Conlidence (lnterruptinnsJ Mr Chairman Sir yc~uhave w~tnebsedhow SHRI MULAYAM SINGH VADAV Mr Cha~rman rnconvenipnt the corr~n~~inalforces feel In our Sir I woula hke to tell the hcn Prirre Mrnistef that presence We n~iqhtnot be having any olhe, so far as the q~estronof n clral~ty I5 concerned programme but we do have one antj that progranimr Interfu~f~onsJThey are aware Mr Chafrman Sir IS that when comrnLrrlal Iclrce: came tu power in that they have no rerly lo it and they are behabrng Germany throuqh tlrrilorrat~c rrrearis ~!8n:~rwpl~nns) lrke Fascists (inferr~~:/cra Therefore we m~ghtor nvqt~triot be having any other programme but we do have cine josh^ )I and hon [E r!pi~shj Atal Bihar~Valpnyer 11 tliat comnlurialisrn can not MR CHAIRMAN Mr Prrme Mrnister may I make raise its ugly head In lnd~a (lnterro~t~cns~ an appeal to you7 (!?!e:r:~pticnsl [Engl~sh] MH CHAIRMAN Sit down pleas? 1 am on rrly MA CHAIRMAN The han Meniher should be legs Mr Prln~eM~nrster I an1 makrnp an appeal to you Every Member ha3 got the rrght to grven the oppc~rtunity 10 ! llr.~l; speak ~lnferru@!~cns' [Transla t~arr] MR CHAIRMAN Shri Ctia:ter!ee I ani on my legs I th~nkevery Member haa ga! the rlght ts speak SHHl MULAYAM SINGH YADAV TIIIS IS our f~rsl trere and YL~Ushrluld a~s?reqd?bt your cwn Mernhers programme and Iri order to iniplerner?t 11 He can suspend our other prograninlrs We w~llnot at ariy to see that there is no drs!:,rParic-e in House cost allow tiitlerism to tlour~zh In Intlla (Interruplrons) You have witn~ssetjthe question of moral~ty here We cO~J~Inever expect hori Atal 11 SHRl ATAL BlHARl 'JAJPAYEE I know thht the who ra~sedthe question of morality (lnterrirpt~onsl shoe! presence of Mulayani Srnph Yadav evokes He said that he w~llnot resort to any covert means anger but please do not rntprri~pt h~wTake your In order to save h~sGoverr\ment at the floor ot the seats pledse I lnterr,!:.!i,y->' 2 3 Matron of Confidence MAY 20, 1996 Motlon of Conhdence 24

SHRl MULAYAM SlNGH YADAV Slr, s..) tar as [English] the hon Fres~dents ~nv~tatlonto form the Let him go there, in Pak~stanto start this Prakriya. Government was concerned the Congress party had ..(Interruptions) already forwarded ~tsresolutmn on 12th of the month and ~t was reported In the newspapers as well as on [Translation] TV and a copy thereof stat~ngthat the Congress wrll SHRl MULAYAM SlNGH YADAV Mr Chaman, not support the BJF or 11s Government was sent to Slr I would hke to know from Ataljl through you that the hon Presldent on 13th 11 two brothers have quarrelled each other (Interruptrons) I would hke to urge upon Ataljl, [Englrsh] ~f we have some differences then would he ask my PROF P J KUHIEN (Mnvel~akara) Sir the son to leave h~shouse? L ~kew~sepeople of ma~denspeech of a Member IS never d~sturbedThat Bangladesh and Pak~stanare our brothers We wdl IS the convention followed In the House have cord~alrelat~ons w~th these and w~llstart a process We w~llcreate an atmosphere and In that [Tra ns la t,on] atmosphere a confederat~on of Ind~a,Pak~stan and SHRI MCILAY4M SlNGH YAOAV Mr Cha~rn Bangladesh w~llbe formed lnd~ansubcont~nent w~ll Sir so tar as the questlon of mandate 1s concet sd be a strong power In the world Do not you want the niandate plven to 3~4thof the Memhers present lnd~ato he strong? It lnd~ahas to become strong In the Pouse clearly portrays the plcture of the then we w~llhave to ma~nta~nharmonlous relat~ons Conf~denceM:>t~or The people w~thonly 20 percent w~thBangladesh and Pak~stan (Interrupt~ons) What mandate are deliberately trylng to create a s~tuat~on have you done In 12 days? (Interruptrons) When cf confus~,?nand d~lemma What IS the hon Home hon Chandrashekharj~ who was among your M~nlstersay~ng' He says !hat they w~llrun the supporters has asked for your res~gnat~onthen Government I! they are able to qet the Conf~dence moral~tydemands that you should reslgn Your Mot~onpassed and In the event of fa~lureto ach~eve strength has come down from 194 and we have that crd tl~evw~il get the sympatly of the people I Increased our number from 171 to 192 and from 331 would like to say through yclu MI Cha~rrnan Sir to 362 Then where IS the nioral1ty7 Therefore It lt,at PO matte: hohsoeier stron: rrjph: the hands be would be better 11 you res~gnInstead of begg~ngfor ~f they try Is weaken the country they w~llnot be support In the vote on cohf~denceThere IS no need allowed to do sc ,lr;t~r~cit'ions, hon Vajpayee 11 IS at all for hav~nga d~scuss~on aware tha' 5Cj Vears ago lrci~abas pdrt~t~oned~nto As far as corrupt~onIS concerned we know that three seorrlerits f~rsf lnd~a an@ Fak~stan aid there IS the quest~on of Enron hafore you afterwards Ra~oalnoe:11 ' tt P people of Bangladesh (Interruptions~Our Government w~llbe formed w~th or the P~kl~tat~ccme rere Ilksuise our cltlzens also the three fourth niajor~ty It w~llrevlew the matter go to Paklstan cr Panqladest ~~n'~rruy;fions~ Corrupt pract~ceIias been adcpted In Enron deed and ~f 11 IS not a ca:e of corrupt~onthen you had no Today our eftcrt 1s 1( rr ake 11 a confederat~on r~ghtto takd a dec~s~onon 11 Your Government does There IS a pr~~escsl ~t and there 1s no need at all not have major~tysupport Yours IS an adhoc f~rthe people l~ke yo^ tcl derly th~sfact I w~uldhke arrangement and 1r1 th~s~~IICJC arrangement when to knsw tr?n at ail^ Ifat 5d years back we were one the d~scuss~or~1s golng on and you are not havmmg ar3 a4te. I: f twc t,rott~rrs fauqht each other rnajorlty support w~thyou a rneetlng of the Cab~net i 1n:errup:r:rns was called Wh~ttwas the need? It IS clearly a Lase [Enolisl-: of corruptlon (Interruptrons) You had levelled charges and had said that the Enron deal w~llbe MR CrlAtRMAN F'ease allow h~mto speak tt~rownInto the Arab~anSea You have the dual I 'r t~rruptions) character You say sorneth~ngand do sun~ethlng MR CbA,c(MAN Allow t~lmto speak else Ilnterrupt~ons)SII what IS wrltten In the~r elect~onrnan~festo - equal c~t~zenshlpArtlcle 370 f"nterrui;fronzj and the construct~onof the Ram Mand~rThey have MR ZHAIHMAN Please allow h~rnto speak He changed the~rpos~t~on now and say that the Issue of has got the r~qhtto speak construct~onof the temple and the Issues of Kash~ and Mathura are not on the~ragenda If ~t not now (lnt~rruprrons) then ~tw~ll never be Atall1 11 you have courage then [Translatron] say that the ~ssuesol Mathura, Kash~and the construct~onof the temple w~llnever be a part of the SHRl MALHUKAR SIRPGTDAR (Murnba~Nortt~ agenda Speak so (Interrupt~ons) Howsoever hard West, Wt~atever tie 1s saylnq 1s not proper About you may try but you can not hlde your true plcture wbil:h ~r'3~esshe IS talk~ng (Interrupt~ons) The Bhart~yaJanta Party has dual character and 11 25 Motlon of Conl~dence JYAISTHA 7. 1918 (Saka) Mohon ot Cnnhdence 26

can not be rel~edupon They d~dnot regard the against the leaders and the photostat copies are oplnlon of the Parl~arnentand the verdlct of the bemg made. Dues . (ln!errupt~ons) a file has been Supreme Court They had made a promise in the made (Inferrupt~ons) Iridiraj~ had sa~d apex pol~t~calfourm the Nat~onallntegrat~on Counc~l .. .(Interruptronsj to safeguard the Mosque but could not do so The MA CHAIRMAN Please conclude Supreme Court gave the pun~shment You m~ghtbe knowmg (lnferrupf~ons) SHFil MLJLAYAM SlNGH YADAV There was a ban that side, (lntrrrupt~orrs! by s1111nq In the PM [Engl~sh] House and In the H(~rr~eM~nlsrry (Interruptror~s) MR CHAIRMAN Mulayam Sinqhj~ please [Fnglish] conclude MR CHAIFiMAN The t~mrallotted to the lion [Transla r~on] Member is over I request h~rrito conclude the speech SHRl MULAYAM SlNGH YADAV No appeal.[ an be made aga~nstthe verd~~tot the Supreme Court [Translat~orl] (Interrupf~ons)There can be no better example than th~sI would l~keto submit wfiat have th~ydnn~ In SHRl MULAYAM 3lNC;H YAUAV I wcruld 11ke ?a 12 days') The cha~nof murders has been golng on subrnlt one more tt'irlg ttial as far as ?tieArl~cle 370 since 21st May On 2151 May the loader of the 1s r~~ncerneclArl~cle 375 ~1~iterrupfior;siIt 1s a Sarnajwadl Party of Lucknuw wa5 murdered On 2lst separate Is:.ue lh~~ssue ot Kactlrnir IS a ri~fterenl May Shr~F~rasat All irnd on the same day Shrl V11ay one Wtle:~the Muslin~sCJ~ 5ur cc:~ntrvwere rn~grat~ng Sat han the General Secr~t~rywar assaulted end to Pak~sTan,the people of Kash~,!r ~lnterru,pt~nns! the brother of Ralendra S~nghYadav of Etah was want to he ~n our ccluntry ;:n!errupllons) Now you murdered Sir on 23rd May Shrl Rajveer Uixlt who are slde tracklnq by resorting to talking I! IS better was a worker of our party w75 rn~~rderedbv the if you qu~faiongwith fkieni and dg nclt recourse to cand~datewho contested aqn~ri~tme He IS rou any other tti!ng Now bower is In 3ur hands Wlth beh~ngthe bars these words I pay my regards t:: Bharat Mata and oppose tth mctlon and conciude [Englrst~! jfrigl~~h,J THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MINISTER OF PAR1 IAMEhrlAHY AFFAIRS 1SHRI PRAMOU MR CHAIRMAN S~nienames blsve teen MAHAJANl It should no1 go on record mentioned In triis It ~tio~lijr::.t gr on reccrd SHRl INURA,!T GIIPTA jM~ariapcre Vr [Transl;ll~tin] Chalrman how much tlme have yol; got for n1e7 Is SHHl MU1 AYAM SlNGH YAUAV lherefore I have that flve niinutes7 bald that tasc-~srnhad spread In Germany In this way MR CHAIRMAN Anyway y;u ar6 a senlor wti~chwlll not be alloued In our rountry Th~smuch Member You understand the constraints of the House ,b my submissinr~to you 1 would llke to urge upon the hon Home Miri~sterthdt he I: full ot pralse for SHRl INDRAJIT GUF'T4 Mr Chairman ! Geclrqe Sah~b My sutin>~\c.ior: rrgard~nqGeorge uould il~!errupt!nns! Sah~bIS that he r~ast hanged severd part~esIn his MR CHAIRMAN You will get an opportunity l~feIt is sald that he 1s a so,ialist leader but I have SHRI INDRAJIT GUFfA Mr Charman l would seen hls many facets 141s first facet w,rs seen in request the hon Members on this std? of :he 1963 when 01 Ham Manllor Lohiya had won He House ;In:errupt!ons! then ren~arked (Intrrr~pt~~)ns1 MA CHAIRMAN F1leC+5e~onclirde jTrans/at,rn) SHRl MULAYAM SIYcqH YAL)AV He has once At least-you keep quiet triev will not let vcu spezh agaln come w~tha chanqed facet Then he dellbered but why are vou ~nvolv~ngyclarsel! Ir: that an excellent speech dur~ngthe tenure 01 Shr~Morarj~ Desal And the speech delivered by him yesterday [English! wds even better then that but now he hds changed No no It IS very d~f!icul? When some hop sldrs (InterruplronsJ TIie~rfore I wuulu II~Qto know Members have no respe.-t I?::kt. i'h.a~, htie.: ttey from the hqn Prime MIIII~~YI(/nferr~jptmn.cl' ::.. uo nu! allow their own Min~sters!;I ~pl?ahand when saving that he IS runn~nqthe F~nanreM~n~stry Tlie they go on lnterrupt~np the^! sun marl I! IS \,cry tlr1n Home M~n~stcrIS making the file of all the d~tt~cult (c)rrespondence Fake charges are being levelled ------Sir. In th~slong ranging d~s?ussiori which has Not Recorded been gnmg on trr~niyesterday nianv aspects of the 27 Motion of Confidence MAY 28, 1996 Motion of Confidante 28

problem whlch the country is facing have been dealt One leader has sa~d,should I name him, who w~thby Members on both sides of the House I wish has said this? (Interruptions) to only make a very few remarks from a different SHRl MADHUKAR SARPOTDAR : Name him. clngle and that angle I thrnk should be given more (Interruptions) attention because 11 has been rased by one or two Members here also Just now, ~t has been raised by SHRl lNDRAJlT GUPTA . I did not name you. the hon Home Mrnrster also That is the ideologrcal Why are you jumping up? (Interruptrons) angle SHRl MADHUKAR SARPOTDAR : You are not courageous enough to name him. (Interruptions) [Trans la t~on] SHRl INDRAJIT GUPTP : I am not naming you This 1s an ~deolog~calbattle and nothlng else Why are you jumplng up? (Interruptionsl You have rightly said that 11 IS a battle of ldeology MR CHAIRMAN : I request the hon Members to [Englrst~] see that veteran leader, Shri lndrajit Gupta, IS allowed to speak. It 1s a battle between contlictlng rdeologies and the ldeology whlch 1s golng to come on top and rule the country and the rdeology wh~chshould be SHRI INDRAJIT GLIPTA Str there are people prevented trom corning on to:, because we conslder who went on record who sald something whlch 1s it to be d~sastrousfor the country That IS the maln complet~ly contradictory to what my frlend, Issue here Vajpayeejl has said In the House and who said that our boys who have gone and destroyed thls mosque, THE MINISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION AND we are proud of them We are proud of them and we TOURISM (SHRI V DHANANJAY KUMAR) We have congratulate them So we would like to know which seen your colour durlng the Emergency You had 1s the real volce Which IS the real volce Yt this party jolned hands wrth them or pariles7 Secondly we have seer) one face of Shri SHRl INDRAJIT GUPTA You can glve me your Vajpayee In thls House (Interrupt~ons) wise advlce later on outsrde I arn qulte wllllng to MR CHAIRMAN Please sit down listen to your wlsdorn but outside not here Now Sir there 1s one point whlch I should [Transla tlon] mention In passinq because somewhere the BJP SHRI SHARAD YAOAV (Madhepura) Mr spokesmen have haid - I think the Prirne Minlster Chairman Slr through you I would like to tell all the himself has said not here but in some public speech Members of this House that Shri lndrajit Cupti1 1s an - that it IS t einq bileard that there was a consptracy hon ble Member ol this House and he knows about behind the denlol,t,ur cf :he Babri Masjid and he everything I would like to request the lead~rof the very stronqlp refdted it He said that there was no House and all of. you (lnterrupt~ons) such CO'ISF~~~,)and sc on I arn remlnded of tt~at SHRl PRABHLJ DAYAL KATHERIA (Flrozabad) day here IQ tl115House one day after the demolltlon Please 11sten to what I am 5ayrng You should l~sten cf tt,p Eabrl Mhsjtd when there was a big uproar to my views also (lntorruptmns~ qotriq of- in the House Of course normal business :auld riot be transacted The whole House was In [Engl~sh] turrnotl or tt,a: day The hon Prirne Mlnlster - who at MR CHAIRMAN The Prln~eMlnister has also thal tlme was not the Prime Mlntster was here If I appealed to you I thlnk the leader of your party has hao time I would have quoted trom the proieedlngs already made an appeal and he has made ~t clear cf the House He very strongly censured the people that every Member has got the rlyht to speak and H~Owere iesponsrtile for this demolrt~on He sald you have no rtqtit to ot~struct anybody from Ttt~yhave acted or1 the11 own they were not grven expressing his own views I again appeal to you to bny dlrectron or instructton to go and damage the see that this Motrort is discussed In a peacetul mosque ,they have done sornelt~~ngunauthorisedly manner and Mr Irrdrajlt Gupta should be allowed to I do not know wttc they are They should be hauled speak without any Interruption up 2nd they stioula be punlshed for it Thls 15 what 11e sald here It IS on the record of the proceedings (Inlerrupt~ons) of the House But this Party and 11s Leader are people SHRl INDRAJIT GUPTA I would request my witti d~ublevolces and double faces After another frlend, Shrr Sharad Yadav to allow the Speaker to day two some other leaders - I do not wish to conduct the House Everybody becomes a Speaker name them started saytny in publlc We are very here There are so many Speakers All are trying to happy with what has happened We are very proud conduct the House There is arl elected Speaker of the people who t,ave destroyed this mosque here Please respect h~rn 29 Mofron oi Confidence JYAISTHA 7 1918 (Sake) Motron oi Conf~dence 30

Sir my frlend Shr~Vajpayee who 1s a very very AN HON MEMBER No No (Interruptior~s~ old frlend of mine and I thlnk we are on very good SHRl INDHAJIT GUPTA All right If I! is not terms w~theach other We have seen one face of very good vou did not So please stand up it you hlrn here IS th~sdebate dur~ngth~s debate All the are not ~n the RSS (Interruptions) Please ~dent~ty rnedla, the Press and everybody have defin~telybeen yourself (Interrupt~onsl does, not matter very much ~mpressedby his sobriety, his calmness (Interrupf~ons) h~sappeal to everybody, tiis reasonableness etc, But I regret to say that Shr~Valpayee on occas~ons Sir the ideolog~calguru of ttie RJP 1s the RSS also has a d~fferentface 7hls IS the trouble I would I do not th~nkthey w~lldeny 11 I have 'oflok wrltter! like to remlnd h~rnthat dur~ngthe Assam rlertlon5 of by late Shri Golwarker who is the head of tho PSS 1983 elect~onswh~ch could hardly be ~alled I have no t~meand so I will only quote a few liries elect~onsbecause there was 50 much d~sturban~e from this book In W~IIL~he says voters could not come their votes the whole The non-H~ndupeople In Hindustan must atmosphere was surcharged either adopt the Hmdu culture and languaqe There were so much lear of d~sturbances riots I do not know what Hmdu language IS but and ethn~cclashes and all thal Mr Valpayee was anyway - and learn to respect and hold in compalgnlng In Assdm I have qot here a br)oh wh~cti reverence the Hindu rel~g~onmust entertam describes the tact that when tie wa5 addressinq no Idea but those ci glor~f~cation01 the Hmd~ roads~deelect~on rrleet~ngs In Aszam In that h~qhly race and culture That is they must not only surcharqed atmosphere he had said th~sand I am glve up the~rattitude of ~ntuleranceand quotlng ungratefulness towards th~sland and its age 'Foreiqners /lave con?c~here and the lonq trad~t~onbut must also cult~vat~vethe Governnient does nothlrlq What if they had posltlve att~tudeot love and devot~oninstead come Into Punlab instpad pecple would IP one word they must cease tc be foreigners have chopped them into p1ece.s and thrown cr may stay Ir this country only subord~nated them away' to tt~eHindu nat~on cla~m~rignoth'ng reserving no pr~v~legesfar less aPy Sir I subm~tttirrl In that atmosphere I revail~ngIn preferential treatrneit not even clllzen s Assam at that t~me a rt>spsnr.~blcleader to make r~ghts lntwruptionl statements like th~q that tt ey should be ch~pped , inlo piece\ and thrown away IS 'nn~ethinq wh~h AN HOP4 MEMBER What IS tbe wrcno In lt7 could be noth~ngbut ~nil~imn~atoryI ccir tel yru that There is ntth~nqwronq ~irrre~r,ic!~~~ soon after th~~,ttirtt tarnous or ~nfan~c~ucNellie SHRI INDRAJIT G,,PTA W'1a1 tbe tan Ho~,e massacre tgok place ~n Assam I sutmit that Mr Minister has said a l~ltleearl~er does nct tallv H +t Vajpayee contr~butedto creatlrrg th15 atrnoqphpr by :h~s 11 does not conforrr wth 1k1s whick 4s IP !hi< type of ~nfl~~mniatory5peeches made by h~m print 7k11:~is very d~fterentto tt~etype of specctl thdl he made here yesterday wh~rhwac of caurse to1 other They are the b%r~tingsof no less a pe7son th~ar purposes I kriow So what I want to say IS lhs Shr~Golwalkar who 1s certa~nlycons~dered tc i'e a (Interruptrons) b~q~nteilectua! gurL of 'he RSS Ths is &hat &e are tigrit~ngagainst We are t~~htingagalnst this k~nj0' AN HON MEMBER What has tt~eCo~qress an atl~tude outiooh and idea that one culture an2 Government doing at that t~me? ,lnterruptmns) common percept~onof this country must be accepted SHRl INDRAJIT GUPTA Congress Government and ~rnposedon everybody Th~scountrk WI! never may qo to Hell 11 does not matter' (l~terru~tmns~ survlve except on t+e basis of pluralism Let it be Hut where are you qo~ng? ~ir~ttlrrurtinns'Sir I am quite clear lnd~asurwves cn the basls ct the aware that most ot the Mernhers of tt1~BJP or all ri plural~srriand w~thoutplural~sm this ccuntrp wll 3: them (Interruptrnns) to pleces it w~llbe broken into pleces I has! *: know from the Pr~meMmlster when the replies :? [Trans la fro n] the debate their att~tudetowards plural~smpluralisri

Please do not make a no~seand try ti) liatei In IP the ccrnpos~tlonoi th~scountry ~lural~~v'? Piir others (Interrupttons) soclety culture relig~on languages lra31'1?-< a-2 history whlch has over hundreds ot years brri.qh' [En glrs ti] irito belng this country this nation 71 wh~:' u e dre The BJP Memhers ~f I am not wrong 11 I am proud that we have a countrv hke this I am \er\ wrong they wlll correct me all of them prdct~cally glad that the hon- Prime Minlster sa~dtbat Ibis and there may he one or two exceptions I do not country can never agree to ary k~noof a thescratic know d~dheldng at one t~mror other ard got the\! or religious s:ate We h~~enot become Pahistan tra~ningalso In the HSS (lnttrrruprronsi We are not Fakistan PI Bang adest u'i:) have 3 1 Motion of Confidence MAY 28. 1996 Motion of Conlidence 32

declared that they have got an Islamic state but if should not have quarrelled with him. We made a some people go about propagating as those in reply mistake if we challenged his idea on that point. Today, to that, we may set up a Hindu Rashtra, it will not be I think that we should take a pledge if necessary that good. .(Interruptions) .. What is Hindu Rashtra? we would stick to that teaching of his which I want Please explain the meaning of Hindu Rashtra In Shri George Fernandes also to ponder over. What this country, not only Hindus live here. Not only did Gandhiji say? Hindus are citizens: millions ot people live here who Mr. Fernandes is not only a socialist but also a are not Hindus. Do you conslder them to be equal special type of socialist, he is an international citizens or do you want them to be drlven out' You socialist. Gandhiji said. must make ~t clear. You must understand why the whole country IS agalnst you and why nobody came "Socialist friends had not understood the forward to supporr you . (Interruptions) A,B.C of socialism. Why could not the socialists see that there can be no socialism in lndia so long as they are in the octopus grip of communalism". SHRl 0 L SHARMA PREM (East Delhi) . In 1962. Chlna had attacked lndia (Interriipt~ons) I think, he never said a truer word than that. We never took him very seriously Today, when the country is contronted with a crisis we should recall According to Len:n the path of communism lles Gandhiji's words ...(Interrupt~ons) We are committed rn the world from Moscow to Peklng. New Delhi Parls to socialist ~deals..(Interruptions) and other lndustrlous countries of Europe That was MR CHAIRMAN Please slt down Please their route (lnterruptlons) So. In 1962 they resunit? your seat (Intsrr~~pt~ons) dlstrlbuted l~teratureon the Assam border that llberatlon forces of Chlna are comlng to llberate the labouruers of thls country That is your party SHHI ANAND MOHAN Mandal has (In terruptlons 1 overshadowed Marxlsrn (lnterrupl~ons) SHRl INDRAJiT GUFTA Have you got no leaders SHRl BRAHMANAND MANDAL (MONGHYR) who can control the~rpeople? I want to know thls Guptaji, what place has the lnclaent of Muzaffernagar You have got such a blg and strong party you must which had taken place In U P durlng the relgn of have got some leaders who can control thelr own Shrl Mulayam Slngh Yadav got rn your people (Interru,rt~onl soclallsrn? (Interrupt~unslwould you repeat the same thrngs as Shrl Mulayani Singh had done? (Interrupt~onsJYou have surrendered your We do not make nolse (Irterruptlons, ideology In the hands of Shr~Mulayam Singh and SHRl GlRDHARl LAL GHARGAVA (Ja~pur) You Shr~Laloo Prasad Yadav (lnterrupt~onsl read the book iln!errj~trons1 [Engllshl SHRl INDRAJIT GUPTA (Midnapore) We do not make noise but you make a din on every point MR CHAIRMAN Mr. Gupta. Please continue SHRl INDRAJIT GUPTA I do not argue wlth iEngllsh] people who have been expelled from my Party and MR CHAIRMAN Mr Gupta please address the who are defectors I do not argue with defectors I Chair ilnterrupt~ons)' do not argue w~thpeople who go on changlng thelr party flve tlrries, ten times Such people are not MR CHAIRMAN These words are not to be worthy of paylng any attentton to ~tteredhere lInrerrupt~ons) Sc I want to say.lt has already been said by SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA Sir, IS ~t good to speak one speaker- 11 the majorlty coniniun~tyI~I this country llke thls and to keep to your Ideas and thoughts? IS suffering from a mlnority complex who IS For the beneflt of my another old fr~end Mr George responslble for 117 Who has created th~sso called Fernandes I would llke to say something I do not mlnorlty complex In the mlnds of the rnajorlty when know whether he is present or not there are no basics and no foundations whatever for For his benefit I would like to just offer a very it') vey short and brlef quotatton from Mahatma Gandh Slr, I remember In Germany H~llerused to go on We have a lot of quarrel wlth Mahatma Gandhi We talklng about the Jews llke the Jews are responslble dlffer wlth hlrri on so many thlngs He dlffers with us "for all the 111s of our country, ~t IS the Jews who have we dlffer w~thhlm But there IS on matter 1s respect rulned our country, ~t IS the Jews agalnst whom we of which. I thlnk I am not afra~cito admit it that we must be vigllant Thls was the old war-cry of the Nazl Not recorded soclaltsm In Germany and ~t ended up wlth sendmg 33 Mot~onof Conf~dence JYAISTHA 7. 1918 (Saka) Motion ot Conl~denr~ 3 4

millions of Jews to the Gas Chamber and kill~rlg donning the H~ndutvaclothes and he started baslng them enmasse You go on talklng about the minoritres, 111s Government on what we called the cow-belt the minor~tiesare resporisible for the ~llsol our Th~s15 wha: I could not understand Th:. 1s why country and, I think, it is a very dangerous slngal It perhaps he has not only ren~alnedwhere he was - may lead to something, we In this country, of course. frozen wit11 194 supporters w~thh~rr~ and has not have not been used to arid we are not prepared to been able to wln arty more frtends tut 4s a rr1a:ter tolerate also. of fat1 al~enatedmany friends The worst thrng 1s Mr Slr, so these are a few passing thoughts I could Vajpayee will be golrlq out of off~cew~ttllr~ a few minutes He w~llbe a leader ly~nqIn history and speak about many th~ngsbit there IS no t~meIt w~ll history WIII not be repeated pass the t~rneslnce the hori Pr~n~eMinister IS supposed to begin h~sreply In deference to that I My Iri~ndsIn the BJP espectallv Mr Prarnod am concluding my remarks I cannot conqratulate Mahajan were saylng that after th~sthere w~llbe these lrrends because they do not show any respect another election In the country We err not afrald of to anybody another elect~on I am not afrad of 11 1 an prepared to face election even tomorrow and I prrirT;%ethat I 1255 hrs. w~llbeat you w~thdouble the niarglri tt,a: I ti&ve qot now (Mr Speaker 1n the (;hall, Hav~ngsad so I say ~t with conside!aWe 2ar They have no respect even lor the Speaker I an, Illat Mr Vajpayee has done a great damage !c tr:~s very sorry for the future of ttiis House 11 the country We ha5 polar~sedttils c:;untv He has dev~ded proceed~rigswill contlnue 1r1 the manner that we hake this county Into tt,e cow-belt and non cow-be!! Trmts seen today W~ththat .51r I w~shto conclude by I:, w!~at 1s ttaopenlng ln IS r.ountr) i do no! saylng that this Vote of Conftdence wh~tthas bren understand his d~ssimulat~onI do nti; unejers?ar.d moved by the Prlnle M~nlster1s not worth ttte paper wb~y Mr Vajpayre has faKen 1:; :!~ss~nluia!~cnThe 11 1s written on Th~sMotlon must be ttirtrwri out lock President s Adaress 15 a s?rrng of ~nanlties a string stock and barrel and I wlil tertalnly lolr, w~ttiottier of good w~xhesthat he wishes to do Cie seems to frlends In votlng against have for?ot+en all tte fundamentals of t,~scarty There MR SPEAKEF! MI Swell you rnav $,peak frir 1s only one ?htng in wftlrt he IS sincere an:! that I! three mlnutos c~r?lyWP are already brhl-~dsct!edule :o have a t;,:a! tar: on COH ~la!~?ti!e: ' ',ave sald So I request the partrclp;cnt$ to br very very brtet hat In tt~rNvrtti-East . I cc~~efrrr !'a' se:?lon as yoii come . beef IS tke :heapest soi,rre c! pr.-!ein for 12.56 hrs ttle rnajortty of the people

' PROF G G SWEl L iSh~lli)ngi Alter so rr~u-hof 13.00 hrs turn1011 after so much (it -c:cllect~ve 31spIay !:I lung power. I hope I wvuld be able ts restnre some It vou s!ori peopie i'r~:e!rup!j?,ls 'hey are sanlty to th~sHol~se I have return~rl thts HOL~S~ ashamed of us an2 we are ashamed cf :hen: after a number of years I have hrre all on niy ;~?!err~p:icnslThey car1 never impose therr own defeat~ngall natronal part~esw~th s ma!y:n tt~at hegemony on the North-East ?be Mugha! en-ipersrs perhaps proportronatdy would br or:e of the r-~igt~est !:led t? da that by sen3,rlg its srmy tc Assarr and In the world each Ilme they had beep turne: away tr2m the bavks of Brahmaputra They cannot irripose the17 way of llfe Sir the Prln~eM~nlster Mr Valpayee has been on the people cf Ncrth-East my fr~endfor a numb~trof years and I have sd marly good frlends In BLIP But I must say w~thangush and Sir I think this is wrong pollck eccnorr~callvaiso not w~thJubllatlon after a good deal of lntrosprct~nn We make an econornic studv of the cali~eIn th~s and after a qood deal of cogltatlon that I have made tountry I make a submrsston that 80 percent of the thls journey from approx~matlngto a party whrh I cattle populallon In thls country IS uneconomlc Very rlow considered to be a hterarchlcal and nionol~thic few cattle In thls county plve proper type or quantity to the democratic forum 01 leaders where we meet of mllk Many of them just go on champ~ngout blades and drscuss that IS the Un~tedFront MI Valpayee of grass and leaves lea'vlng the country barren and has been my fr~endfor a number ol years as I have are turning the country Inlo a desert Some of them already said I thought I know trrm Today I do not are berng used as draught an~malsPut a tlme comes know h~mThe rrrational th~ngthat he evo~d~d was when they ate no longer used 3s draught anlrnals 10 have assumed power I had expected that he would What do you do w~thall these cattle' Are you golng show himself to be a leader of this natlon and that to watch them' You are p~tngto allow them t~ champ 3s a national leader his Government would project up all vegetatron In the country What are you going d national rniage On the other hanu he started to do wtth 117 Thrs IS uneconomlc 3 5 Motion of Confidence MAY 28, 1996 Motion of Confidence 36

I think, it is something right and good that this SHRlMATl MElRA KUMAR : I was saying that Government is going out of power in a few minutes. the Hon'ble President invited them to form the If they follow the kind of an economic policy which Government only because they have maximum has got to be in sync with the economic developments number of MPs. The decision of the hon'ble in the world, they cannot suggest all these things. President was fair and in conformity with the You have got to reform and one of the things you constitutional conventions and propriety. Nobody can reform is to reform the way which you approach your challange it. But the fingers are being raised on the cattle. Treat your cattle well, get the benefit out of decision of the BJP to accept his invitation. The right them. What are they going to do with all these stray decision of the BJP would have been to humbly cattle? Either yop eat them or you kill them, do refuse to accept the President's invitation as was something. England today is facing what they call done Shri Rajiv Gandhi in 1989. Al that time, the 'the mad cow disease' of the beef. The destruction Congress had more strength then the BJP has now. of these cattle and even the cost of destruction has This is the main differnece between the Congress become a b~gproblem in that country. What are they and the BJP. Though we did not waver from our going to do with it here? They have to think about it. stand then, the BJP has deeply immersed in the mire of lust for power. You talked of principles and Mr. Speaker, Sir, if this is the way in which the value-based politics but when time came for BJP conducts its affairs, I can tell you that the whole enthronement, you became desperate. Today the of the North-East from Bhutan right up to Naga will whole country is a witness to your profession and be forbidding them psychologically. Nobody will listen practice. You have been exposed before the whole to them. They have been able to make some progress nation. You are claiming that by hook or crook run in that area mostly by over indulgence. But this time the Government for full term. You launched a even that Meprogress will be swept out. Nobody IS propaganda and made all, attempts to win over one going to listen to them. They have nothing to do in third C3ngress Members to you side. Big West Bengal. They have nothing to do in Andhra businessmen, with suhcases filled with currency Pradesh and nowhere else in the South. The whole notes, were lodged in Five Star hotels. The whole country is being divided between the cowbelt and nation is a witness that the BJP which makes loud the non-cowbelt. But even in the cowbelt areas the proclamation of its principles, has deviated from it Muslis, the low-caste and the other people will rise and now they are making allegations of corruptions against you. If you thing that you are going to benefit against Congress. Atalji is present here. I have great when you go out of off~ce,if you think that you will respect for him. But the tragedy of Atalji is that on benefit out of sympathy wave, it is going to be the the one hand his heart wants to touch the new other way. It tell you. I predict that when the elections heights and on the other hand, his feet are entrapped are held you are going to do very poorly. You are not in a mire of communal politics. This irony has become going to get even the number that you have today. his destiny and identity. He could not resist the [Transla tion] temptation of grabbing power, although for 15 days only. He had a long cherished ambition. SHRl MElRA KUMAR (Karol Bagh) : Mr Speaker, ...(Interruptions) It has been his long cherished Sir, I rise to oppose the Motion of Confidence. I ambition and when an opportunity came, he took would like to recite q couplet of Galib Mr. Speaker, time by the forelock ...(Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sir, with your permission I, on behalf of the Members Shri Advani had been performing 'rath-yatra' for a of the BJP, want to recite- long time ...(Interruptions). Nikalane Khuld Se Adam Ka Sunte Aaye They, SHRlMATl BHAVNA CHlKHLlA : Mr. Speaker, Lekm Bahut Be-Abru Hokar Tere Kuche Se Nikle. Sir, he is not present here. Therefore, his name cannot be mentioned here ...(Interruptions) Today is the day of bidding farewell to BJP Government ...(Interruptions) Though the BJP has SHRlMATl MElRA KUMAR : He was addressing maximum numbqr of MPs, it got only 23 percent the people from a vehicle. It is not an allegation. votes. Even then the hon'ble President invited (Interruptions) them ...(Interruptions) Shri Rajiv Gandhi had bought [English] Panchayati Raj Bill In which there was a provision of 33 percent re~ervatio~for women. The BJP had MR. SPEAKER : She is not making any allegation opposed that Bill and not allow it to be passed. One against anybody. of the women members of that party is standing and (Interruptions) she is not ready to listen. They are based against women. [Translation] SMRlMATl BHAVNA CHlKHLlA (Junagarh) : It is MR. ~EAKER: Please sit down. You would be totally wrong. benefited from it. 37 Motion of Conlidonce JYAISTHA 7. 1918 (Saka) Motion ot Confidence 3 8

(Interruptions) 'Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam' (the whole world IS like one family) (Interruptions) Are you ready to accept SHRlMATl MElRA KUMAR : Shri Advani was any Harijan as a member of your family? You are not thinking that Rath Yatra would pave way for his rise ready. Your idelogy of 'Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam' and to the office of the Prime Minister ... (Interruptions) 'Hinduism' oscillates between temple construction But his ambition was shattered due to his involvement and cow-slaughter. That is all about your in Hawala Case. .Hinduism .. . (Interruptions) After that, Atalji tookover the reins and the race for the coveted post continued. Ultimately, he has MR SPEAKER : Please conclude, there are many more speakers in the list. reached his destination but there is gloom all around. Sir, if asked, I would term this thirteen days old [Transla tion] Government as an illusion. They are mistaken that Please conclude, after reciting a couplet. they wouid win the vote of confidence. They have been feeling elated for the last thirteen days. They SHRlM I MElRA KUMAR : I am reciting a have already taken a decision on Dabhol Power couplet of i? halib. They had high aspirat~onsand for Project. (Interruptions) I am coming to the same point. that, they had worked very hard. They had even We had read in the history during school days that taken the help of R S.S. volunteers to capture more when 'Bhishti' (water carrier) became ruler for one than 300 seats and rule at the centre (Interruptions) day, he circulated leather coin. Likewise, when these I now recite the couplet. people got thirteen days, they took far-reaching "Hazaron Khwah~shenA~si KI Har Khwah~shPew decisions like Enron Project ... (Interruptions) Ours IS Dam Nikale, multi religious country If tolerance, generosity and Bahut Nikale Mere Arman (be it Dabhol or Enron) secularism are given up, this system will collapse Lekin Phir Bhl Kam Nikale" Yesterday, I listened to Atalji's speech. It was a speech in perturbation. He kept on clarifymg for a MR SPEAKER Thank you long time that the BJP was not a communal party but SHRl SURJEET SlNGH BARNALA (Sangrur) was a secular party. The 'Satya Narayan Katha' (a Mr. Speaker. Sir. I rise to support the Conf~dence religions discourse) IS performed at our Motion moved by Atalji homes..(Interruptrons) Recently, elections were held to Lok Sabha After that Prasad is d~str~butedIt IS sa~dabout under the reglme of the Congress Party Dur~ngthe the Prasad that ~t should be taken only In that reglme of the Congress the corrupt~onwas rampant much quantlty as may not go down the throat If ~t IS In the country (lnterrupt~ons)That 1s why all part~es taken in excess, the person consuming ~tw~ll become had un~tedto oust the Congress from power Among profane They have taken the Katha of secular~sm them were reg~onalparties and so called National as Prasad They have not asslmllated secular~smto Parties I agree w~thShr~ Murasoh Maran that now the~rsoul l~kethe Congress there IS no National Party and all part~eshave They talk of only one rel~gion.Where will other become reglonal part~es As a result of th~sunlty people go? They speak against Muslims, then what agalnst Congress there was spi~tIn the Congress should Muslims do? Should they consider them and thelr strength was reduced from 267 to 136 I e second grade citizens or take suicidal dip in Iftdian almost half The people of the country pun~shedthem Ocean? What happened in Ayodhya? A number of for the~rpolicres Today they are s~ttingin Opposition people were killed in the name of 'Shilanyas' benches They have been rui~ngthe country for a (foundation laying ceremony). This fasc~stpractice long tlme They have become accustomed to power and the ideology of Godse will not be allowed to They cannot rule the country d~rectiy Now they are prevail. Only secularism will prevail here. trying to enter from the backdoor and rule the country They are also trying to rope In many other Members [English] Shr~Sharad Pawar IS my old fr~end Wh~le MR SPEAKER : Please conclude now. recounting the ach~evementsof the Congress, he said that peace has preva~ledIn Punjab due to efforts [Translation] of the Congress Party But what has happened now? SHRlMATl MElRA KUMAR : I would like to ask We all, lncludmg the leaders of BSP were opposing that if you are true devotees of Lord Rama then you the Congress They had only one po~ntthat they should visit the houses of untouchables In villages, uprooted the terrorism there Had they done so they cities and slums of the country and share food with would not have faced such a drubb~ngIn Purljab In them as Lord Rama had eaten the plums defiled by the prevlous Lok Sabha, Congress had 12 Members Shabri. (Interruptions) You treat the Dalit and out of total 13 seats But thls time only two Members exploited people of the country as untouchable. What have been elected from the Congress Party there sort ot Hinduism you talk about? Hinduism advocates One of the elected Members of the Congress IS s~ttlng 39 Mot~onof Confidence MAY 28. 1996 Motion of Confidence 4 0 beslde me and another Member is sitting there. This get justice. No action has been taken against the is the position of the Congress Party. It means that identified persons. A number of Committees and people have rejected them They have rejected them Commissions were set up in this regard which because people of Punjab know that the Congress identified big leaders of Congress. But no action was responsible for bringing terrorism there The was taken against those persons. Paswanji had Congress abetted terrorism shown some sympathy to us. Miscreants entered his house and even burnt that. He identified those Mr. Speaker. Sir, they have been cheating us persons. They were none but workers of Congress and committing outrage on us since independence party. Apart from it if any help was received from When States were being formed on the basis of anybody else, they were BJP workers, they saved language, then Punjabi was not given recognition sikhs. Set up camps and provided relief to them. and it was sa~dthat no State would be formed on the Today after so many years we could not get justice. basis of Punjab1 language. We had to continue the Our several big leaders were arrested and sent to movement for 10 years for this demand We had to jails but we did not get justice even after a period of launch a movement against the Congress party. In more than ten years. Now we are elected to this 1966 the demand for creatrng Punjabi suba was House and demand that we should be given justice. accepted, the state of Punjabi speaking areas were We are also the citizens of this country and have excluded from ~twith a view to punish us. Such type ourselves decided to live in this country. We suffered of controversy contlnued ..(Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, a big loss to live in this country. We should be given Sir, I would speak in brief due to paucity of time justice what could be worse than that? We had to Later on emergency was imposed. We were not fight with them. They were defeated in Punjab. They arrested but we desired that democracy system spread terrorism and worsen the situation there, should prevail in the country. Akali Dal decided to whenever they got chance. fight against 11 and organlsed a front. There were other b~gpolitical parties in the country at that time. I would like to say that such a situation continued but none had done that. Thls process of arrest in Punjab for a long time. continued TOT 19 months. All the big leaders of our The very first regional Party Government was party were In ia~lOur 46 thousand persons were formed in Pepsu, which is a part of Punjab today. arrested and put beh~ndt+e bars Our agitation Launching of regional parties started from there. contlnued till emergency was lifted. Later on democracy was restored and we gof 'Operation Blue star' ds punishment for it 'Darbar Sahib' was attacked Shri Maran, a regional Government was formed wlth tanks and guns. The building of 'Akal Takht' was there is 1952. ruined Hundreds of persons were killed in it but none had expressed sorrow for it We were assured [Translation] that relief would be glven but so far none went for Sardar Rarewala, who was the President of Akali it. I thank Shr~Vajpayeeji for visitmg 'Darbar Sahib' Dal, became Chief Minister. But that Government d~d day before yesterday After returning from 'Darbar not last long and after SIX months, Article 356 of the Sahib in a Press conference he said that it was an constitution was imposed to the Government was unfortunate lncldent So far no- one had sa~d dismissed Not only once but for six times Akali Dal that ...(Interrupt~ons) Please listen to me. Now I would Goverment was formed in Punjab and it is really an like to say what happened in November, 1984. In excess on the part of the Government that for all the Delhi which IS the capltal of the c,ountry sikhs were six times it could not complete its tenure of function massacred as general massacre was ordered by for more than two years. What more excesses could Nadirshah when he came to Delhi Who were be committed. No other political party in the country involved in it7 Thousands of people were killed in has suffered to that extent. We tolerated all that. In the country and 5000 persons were killed in De!hi such a deteriorated circumstances, Shri Longwal alone. bravely signed an accord with Rajiv Gandhiji. That It was admitted in this House but I am sorry to accord was presented In both the Houses and was say that no resolut~onwas passed or two minutes passed unanimously but what happened to it? silence was observed In this House to express sorrow Consequently Santji was murdered and not a single over it In this way we were compelled to f~ghtagainst clause of that accord has been implemented so far. Congress This House observe silence on petty It was the outcome of a written accord made by the issues but silence was not observed on massacre of congress with our party. You are also aware of the thousands of people, looting and burning of the~r position of Human Rights in Punjab as you might be houses 111 Delhi only property worth Rs. 500 crores reading about it in newspapers. I am not getting an was destroyed What could be worse than that. Today opportunity to make my submission in details due to more than 10 years have passed hut people did not paucity of time. Whereabout of Human Rights activist,

4 3 Motion of Confidence MAY 28, 1996 Motion of Confidence

[English] debate MR. SPEAKER : Thank you. Mr. Surjeet Singh.. (Interruptions) (Interruptions) SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : :es, straightaway the Prime Minister can do it ...(Interruptions). MR SPEAKER : Please sit down. I have to go by the strength of the respectwe parties. I am aware of MR. SPEAKER : If Mr. Kanshi Ram wants to the desire of many hon. Members who want to speak, then I have to give him a chance. If he does participate. I will try to accommodate them. Then, I not want to speak, than I call the Prime Minister. have to go by the strength of the party Your chance (Interruptions) will come. You do not have to raise strength of the SHRl BlJU PATNAIK (Aska) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, party. Your chance will come. You do not have to please call the Prime Minister to wind up the debate raise you hands again and again. Mr. Jaswant and then go tor voting. Singhji. (In terruptlons) [Transla tion]

MR. SPEAKER : Only 10 mhutes time IS left. Mr. THE FINANCE MINISTER (SHRI JASWANT Jaswant Singhj~. SINGH) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have given me 10 minutes' time. ...(Interruptions) THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI JASWANT SINGH) : I will.. (Interrupt~ons) [English] MR SPEAKER : You sit down. You can listen to SHRl G.M. BANATWALA (Ponnani) : Mr. Speaker, me better when you sit down. Sir. I am on a point of order under rule 190. (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER . What is you point of order? MR SPEAKER . You can hear me better when SHRl G.M. BANATWALA : Mr. Speaker. Sir, under you sit down. rule 190, it is your responsibility and I simply remind you that every debate must be just and far. I can (Interruptions) very well understand the impatience for the voting. MR SPEAKER Mr Jaswant Smgh is the last But at the same time, there are various smaller speaker from the~rs~de We have many small parties parties also and justice must be given to them within - AGP 1s there Bahujan Samal Party is there, you the time constraint. My party, the Muslim League are there It 1s for the House to decide whether we was specifically referred to, by the Home Minister. should glve chance to them or we should go for As a disciplined Member, I am waiting for my turn. voting I thmk ~t is fa~r11 we give chances to smaller Now, if we. the smaller parties, are so ignored, then, parties - two mlnutes each I think, that justice is not being done under rule 190. Of course, within the timeframe we are all impatient (Interrupt~ons) for the hour of reckoning to come and we shall MR SPEAKER Speak one by one. I cannot cooparate with you for the hour of reckoning But at hear you the same time. I request that under rule 190, a fair (Interrupt~ons) debate should be allowed, giving chance to every smaller party to state their point of view. That must MR. SPEAKER . Twenty people are speaking at be acceded. a time I cannot hear anybody. MR. SPEAKER : Mr Banatwala, this is precisely SHRl BlJU PATNAIK (Agra] You had announced I thought What you have pointed out is quite fa~r yesterday that vot~ngw~ll be held at 1 30 PM You and I think we can have a little more patlence to have already crossed seven hours golng to nine accommodate the smaller parties hours You should stop it and go for voting. (Interrupt~ons) MR SPEAKER I sad the voting wdl tentatively SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : Mr Speaker, Sir. be held at 1 30 PM you can give an indication as to how many speakers (Interrupt~ons) are there to speak now and say as to when the SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN (Hajipur) : The Prime voting will be taken up, so that some of us can go Mlnister will also speak for lunch and come back. I thmk this will at least ease the pressure. Please give chance to my friend SHRl BlJU PATNAIK - Why does the Prime for Ills farewell speech 'as Minister. Please do not M~nisternot speak now? stop h~m MR SPEAKER If the Un~tedFront says that no [Trans I3 tion] more speaker from your s~deIS gomg to speak and as there IS no more speaker from Congress s~de,I SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN , The voting system can stra~ghtawayask the Pr~meMmister to reply the too will take two hours. 4 5 Motion of Confidence JYAISTHA 7, 1918 (Saka) Motron of Confidence 4 6

[English] Member of Parl~amentat that t~mealso and it was after a great deal of effort that I was able to extract SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (Bolpur) . Mr. the information from the Government that 3000 Speaker, Sir, my request to you is that today th~s people had been murdered in October-November. debate must be over and the voting must be over, 84 riots in Delhi. For that your Government was because I have a teeling that they will take it upto responsible. I know the duties of a man In un~form Six o'clock and then they will try to spill over to day- after-tomorrow. Let that be made absolutely clear 13.55 hrs and let them commit that they will not raise any objection about the time and that the whole process (Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee in the Chaw) would be over today itself If necessary, we shall have to sit longer. But let them give that commitment I had part~cularlyasked as to how many armed first. (Interruptions) personnel were killed in un~form After a persistent effort of many months I could get the f~gure SHRl E AHAMED (Manjerl) Mr Speaker, Sir, the Members of the major partles hke the Congress [Engltsh] and the B J P have already been called to speak Twenty e~ghtlnd~ans In the unrform were k~~lt.,~ and only the respresentat~vesof smaller part~esare sunply because they subscr~bedto the faith of CJI~I there to speak now You may please call the smaller Govmd Smgh Saheb parties, lncludmg that of ours, the Musllm League Then you can ask the Pr~meMin~ster to reply and [Translation] have the vot~ng We are also anx~ouslywa~t~ng for the vot~ng (Interruptions) It was your respons~b~l~tyMy good tr~endcomrade Indral~tGlrpta who 1s elder to me rn all respects has SHRl SURESH KALMADI (Pune) Mr Speaker sa~dthat ~t 1s the f~ghtof ~deologies He IS rght that Sir, please adlourn for lunch Interval (Interruptrons) ~t is the fight of ~deolog~esMany tunes I wonder that SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE Sir we do not after hav~ngstuck to h~s~deology throughou! h~sl~fe want any lunch break (Interruptions) what company comrade lndral~thas chosen for MR SPEAKER Please l~stento me Please take himself to s11 w~th Shr~Sharad Pawar had referred you seat When I am on my legs you cannot stand to the Pr~meM~n~ster and hrs llfelong Brahamcharya up I~kethat (cel~bacy) but I want to ask comrade Indrallt as to where h~scelrbacy 1s head~ng?The Oppos~t~on Members have relerred to Assam MR SPEAKER We have decrded today mornlng that we w~llnot take up zero hour and Matters Under Rule 377 In order to save that one hour t~me But My leader and today the hon Prime M~n~ster then the Issues were ra~sedIn such a manner that deputed me to Assam I look at my good friend Shr, we had to spend almost one hour durmg zero hour B~rendraPrasad Ba~shya the leader ot !he AGP That is how we are l~ttlebeh~nd the schedule Parl~amentaryParty I recollect vlv~dlyand po~pnantly I can apprec~atethe problems and diffrcult~esof he was a vrctlm ot your operat~on he was ly~ng the hon. Members that quite a number of you are ~njuredIn h~sv~llage There was no one from your feel~nghungry Well I must recognlse that But at the organlsat~onor from any other organ~satlonto look same tlme I must also glve equal opportunity to the at Assam or to look at the pain of Assam Comrade smaller part~es I th~nk,we can t~xthe voting at 3 30 lndrapt Gupta c~tedsome references from a book If p.m. In the meantime, some of you would like to go there was one nat~onalleader at that time who out tor lunch and come back (lnterruptronsl shared the agony of Assam 11 was today s Pr~me M~n~sterbecause 11 was he who deputed me to go tc [Translation] Assam I recollect 11 very well SHRl JASWANT SlNGH Mr Speaker Sir just now. I have w~tnessedthe lmpatlence shown by my [Transla tron] fr~endsAs soon as you announc?o that votlng would I was also a Member of Parlmment Shr~Ba~sh~a take place at 3 30 pm, the ent~rrHouse bore a has forg3tten I went to h~svlllage to take care of deserted look I could not make out whether th~s hm He was the vlct~mof the atroc~t~esof Congress Impat~encewas lor vote, for tl~eCha~r of for lunch Party Today they are lalkmg of ~deology I have l~stenedto the br~efbut effectwe speech of Sardar Surjeet Singh Barnala w~lhrapt attention. [English] Whatever he said has touched my heart. Many thlngs My friends In the DMK, I do not know where they emanate from h~sspeech. I remember I was a are lust now, those that s~tw~th you 47 Motion of Confidence MAY 28. 1996 Motion ot Confidence 4 8

[Transla tion] SHRl SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : You are a good speaker. You are an efficient one also. But you should Are telling us about the percentaga of votes and not mislead the House ...( Interruptions) Let me finish. number of seats. I would like to remind them of the We are not disturbing your leader. Your Prime Minister 1983 elections in Assam: will speak and none of us will disturb him. When you [English] say that in Assam there was three percent polling, and in Punjab there was eight percent polling, there The average polling, other than Barak Valley, was not any opposition. Today, you have got 20 was 3 percent. My friend from AGP remembers that percent. All of 'us put together has got 80 percent at 3 percent polling, the Congress formed the votes. We have got 28 percent votes. So, we do not Government Ninety seven percent of Assam was want to learn from you. Through your statement, you opposed to it. are misleading the House. You claim that you are in- [Translation] charge of Assam. I do not want to quote your speech in this House, what you said sitting in this side. It is only now that they are recolleciing the Subsequently you have corrected that you have percentage of votes. I want to remind them of the given some incentive to the AGP Government. We 1992 elections in Punjab. In that election, the know about that. But that was not good. The point is Congress Party secured only eight percent of votes that the AGP has done something. They are doing and yet it formed the Government in the State. And good. So, we support them. They are coming into the now they are g~vingus sermons on percentage of national mainstream. They are doing very well and votes, number of seats and the mandate. As Shri so we are supporting them. Surjeet Singh Barnala has aptly said that it is the loss of Government that IS upsetting them. That is SHRl BIRENDRA PRASAD BAISHYA (Mangaldoi): why they have brought other parties to the forefront. Madam, I want to make clear one thing. I am My leader had deputed me to Assam. At that time a speaking from my heart. b~gleader of the then Janata Party Ravindra Verma MR. CHAIRMAN : You have your tune. Will you who 1s maintaining some distance from politics right kindly speak at that time? now ...(Interruptions) I am amazed at their behaviour. SHRl BIRENDRA PRASAD BAISHYA : With Ram Vilas ji IS not present here. Srikant ji, your reference to what the hon. Minister Shri Jaswant actlons are amazing Please do not take ill. According Singh said, I would l~keto say something. With great to today's Parliamentary Bullet~nanother good friend respect to Shri Jaswant Singh I would like to say of mine has become the Chlef Whip of the Congress this. He said that Shri Vajpayee helped us a lot Party. When I see that you go to him to get during the Assam agitation. Shri Jaswant Smgh help instructions. 11 really hurts me. You will get these us a lot durlng the Assam agitation. We, the people lnstructlons from them and you have already made of Assam, are really grateful to Shrl Jaswant Singh the beginn~ng So what Shri Surjeet Smgh Barnala and Shri Vajpayee There is no doubt about it In the says is correct We shall see that they will be in the 1985 elections, the people of Assam democratically driver's seat, but nelther breaks, nor accelerator nor elected the Assam Gana Parishad to power, tor the 14.00 hrs first time in the political history of Assam, a regional party, the Assam Gana Parishad took power there. In Steermg wheel will be in their control. Being in 1990, the BJP was advocating imposition of drlver's seat, would not you be responsible? We have President's Rule In Assam. They also urged the no objection to your drlving such a vehicle. But that Centre to impose Army rule in Assam. This IS what vehlcle is named lndia and whatever befalls this I wanted to tell the House. Thank you. vehicle will ultimately affect the fate of crore of people of Ind~a. DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA (Lakhimpur) : Madam, there is one more point. Shri Jaswant Singh [English] ji pointed out something concerning the Assam Gana I am appalled at the manner in which you Parishad Party. We have to make clear one thing. approached the cyn~cismw11h which this whole The point is that the BJP has, still now, the business of governance of lndia is be~ng discriminately approach regarding the foreigners, approached. .. who are coming from Bangladesh, in the name of religion, which has harmed this small nationalities SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : What is your in the North Eastern Region All of us know about claim to governance? Tripura. The people of Tripura have kept the Indian SHRl JASWANT SlNGH : I will tell you what the nationalism in tact. Because of the influx of a claim to governance is ...(Interruptions) I will yield to particular community from Bangladesh, this you ten minutes. But you give me a few minutes. community is going to vanish. They are not only 12 49 Motion 01 Confidence JYAISTHA 7, 1918 (Sake) Moffon 7f Conl~dence 50

percent. In most of the other S~P~AS,if we allow this obllgatlon to the crores that voted for us 11 was our religious discrimination, most of the smaller obhgatton to the 23 9 percent electorate of lndla that nationallties will not have their rights in their own voted for us It was to honour that mandate land. Only because of this that we cannot support Whereafler, Madam the responstblllty of the slngle the BJP because we are a secular party. They are largest party IS to reason, 1s to argue 15 to attempt talking about the nationality question In India. If the to convlnse on grounds of programmes Thls IS smaller nationalities are not allowed to grow, then precisely what we attempted to do how can the Indian nationality be formed? I look at the lmpatlence that IS belng That is the main difference of our party with dernor~strated by varlous Members here that there Bhartiya Janata Party. ought to be no discussion In :his House and that we MR. CHAIRMAN : May I take that your Party's should s~mplyand stra~ghtawaygo to votlng Madam speech is over? 11 this House 11 thls Parllament ~f thls assembly be not engaged In d~scusslonsof Issues adrn~ttedly you SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS . No. Madam. dlsagree wlth us admittedly I am not w~thComrade SHRl JASWANT SINGH . I think the point I had lndrajlt Gupta s favour or ~deology- ~f I were I made in respect of my respected leader Shri Atal would be sltt~ngw~th h~m and he wltb me - but 11 Bihari's long association with the Assam and North- thls House does not discuss then whlch assembly East is well established. Even my good friend, the In lndla will dlscussv And. 11 tr,ts House were only chief architect who glves orders to my frlends Shri for votlng then why not convert ~t Into a pol~ce Srikanta Jena and Shri Ram Vilas.. (Interruptrons) statlonv Why not send the poll~ngboxes to the varlous (Interrupttons) SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJtE : It is ~iotexpected from you.. (Interrupt~ons)We have a standard to SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE Will you please maintain. hear me for half a minute?

SHRl JASWANT SlNGH I am sorry Madam yes ordlnarlly ~t should be It IS a place ...(Interruptions) The polnt was about the percentage for debate and dlscuss~on- of course In a proper . . . (Interruptrons) splrlt also and at the moment whlch IS not there But we are slttlng here or meetlng here for a particular [Englrsh] purpose deflnlte purpose The hon Rashtrapat111 MR CHAIRMAN . Shrl Jaswant Slngh IS on h~s lnvlted or appointed Shrl Vajpayeejl to be the Prlme legs. Mlnlster w~ththe d~rectlonto obtaln the confidence of this House That means ~t IS very clear whether Even then your are speaklng? you have majority support or not the hon [English] Rashtrapat111d~d not go Into that exerclse hlrnself Accordrng to respected Rashtrapatrjl - whether I SHRl JASWANT SlNGH I wlsh to share only agree or not that IS dltferent - the floor 01 the House one thought about the mandate of 1996 1 do belreve IS the place where the malorlty or the rnlnorlty should that the mandate of 1996 clearly unarnb~guously be declded I have not gone 1n:o that exerclse You rejects the Congress and 11 that has st111 to be Shr~Vajpayeell the Prlme Mlnlster lmmed~ately go explalned wlth thelr loss In Punjab Assam Kerala w~thlna defmlte time llm~tto flnd out the rnajorlty and thelr d~mlnutlonfrom the numbers that they were support as polnted out earher to 136 nod ~tt~a, strlke that. they feel the mandate does not have favour, I cannot That IS what we have been saylng We knolc educate them on thls score I do belleve that the each others polnt of vlew We know each others mandate of 1996 In spmt IS certalnly for the BJP ~t manlfesto The people of the country who have gone IS certainly for the change and what th~sdlsharmony to the hustlngs, also know what are the respectlve that IS obtalnlng The dlsharmony 1s between the poslt~onof the d~fferentpollt~cal parties splrlt of the mandate of 1996 and the arlthmetlc of Therefore we are not here lor the purpose of Parllament Thls often happens In elected agaln repeating what our man~festoessay or what democracles that when you go down thrs road of first are the changes In the manlfesto we are maklng past the post you will have a srtuatlon that the Obviously the Preslden! wanted to know whether arlthmetlc of numbers In the leg~slaturedo not match you have got the majorlty support In the House to the mandate or the splrlt of the electorate Thls 1s an govern because majorrty IS the essence of the aud~blepomt but that IS the substance ot what we parhamentary democracy We are here be.ng told obtam now that malorltv has no meaning the so called A point that was made by Shrl Snmnath mandate of 20 percent 1s the authorltv That IS why Chatterjee, 'Why, what was your mandate? Why 6s we have been asklng to go to votlng and flnd out for the single largest Party?' As a slngle largest party, curselves eslabllsh your majorlty support In the it was our obligation to our electorate, ~t was our House and then go to the President tell h~rnthat you 5 1 Mobon of Confidence MAY 28, Motion of Confidence 52

have got the majority and rule for five years. If you adorned the Prime Minister's chair on the request of do not get the majority support it is not our fault. You the party only. I need not remind you that when Shri could not persuade anybody to join you. Is it our Chandra Shekhar became the Prime Minister he had fault? Is ~tour obligat~onto keep you there when we quit his party and become the premier. He had joined have also fought against you? hands with the people who were your staunch SHRl JASWANT SlNGH : I accept what the hon. political opponents. I am greatly distressed when a Member Somnathj~says, but In part only. He said person of such a high stature gives us this sort of that it should be done with~na timeframe. The hon. lessons. I would not have gone into all this, but I Head of'the Republic. the President, said by 31st was very distressed yesterday when a person of May. We are abidtng by that. You are showing Shri Chandra Shekhar's stature said such a thing. ~mpatiencew~thin that timeframe. We are always prepared to take lessons from him. I learned a lot from Somnathji everyday. Now let me [Translatron] proceed further. A very senior member of the House who had also been the Prme Min~ster has gone too far. I [English] cannot say as to what prompted him to do so. My I cite another example of the principal speaker esteemed colleague who has come with you. f~eldedby the principal party in Opposition, I found it very strange because he himself was not familiar [English] on that territory. SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Let us decide for ourselves what we shall do or shall not do. I am [Transla iron] not glvlng you any advice: you need not give unsolicited adv~ceto us. We can look after ourselves. Shri Sharad Rao Pawar while making his speech Do not bother whether we are right or wrong You try recited a Urdu couplet. Urdu 1s a delicate language to show whether you have got the majority support. and his typical Marathi accent was nothing but a That 1s your only obltgation ..(Interruptions) mismatch. What prompted him to drift into th~s del~catearea. It appears that the politics of the MR. CHAIRMAN You all have agreed just a Congress Party compelled him to recite the couplets. little before regard~nga part~culart~me of voting. That is why I am say~ngthat this is your time and th~s Everybody knows the matter In which Shri Sharad is your dec~sion.So. I belleve you will kindly Pawar has acquired expertise. The person who is cooperate to stick to your own decis~on sitting on his r~ghtshould be more concerned for this expertise. I would rem~ndShri Sharad Pawar SHRl RAJlV PRATAP RUDl (Chapra) But why that during 1982 to 1986 he was able to come to should he Interrupt the speaker again and again? power with BJP support.. (Interruptrons) When he SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE He y~eldedto came to power with our support he did not notice me I spoke only wlth h~spermlsslon (Interrupt~ons) any demerit In us When people ask us to form the MR CHAIRMAN Please do not shout that w~ll Government at the Centre, he sees the ghost of take away some more t~meThat 1s why I am communalism In 11. request~ngeverybody to stlck to the~rtime and not Intervene In between so that we can keep to the tlme [Englrsh] ult~mately For the small partles also I want to say I give a th~rdexample. I recollect v~vidlythose that they w~llhave to ab~deby the time that has momentous days of 1990 and I am sure, my friend been f~xed Srikant w~llalso remember The Raja of Manda, SHRl JASWANT SINGH I d~i~gentlyand most Vishwanath Pratap Smgh, the then hon. Member from obed~entlyobey your d~rection I was only yield~ng Fatehpur, as Prlme Minister of our country lost his to my good fr~end Somnathl~ He wanted to make a majority in the House. I do not know where this polnt It would have been extremely d~scourteoustf morality about immediately seeking the confidence I had not y~elded Surely In the heat of the debate was, about which Somnathji, since yesterday, has we have not lost that elementary courtesy to each been giving me one firing after another. Please do other We can disagree not give me so many, please do not give us so many, The po~nt however IS made that the former of that. I do not know where that principle of Pr~meMtn~ster a very senlor Member of th~sHouse immediately seeking the confidence of the House whom we held In very h~ghregard . was Where did that go? I recollect it very well.

[Translatron] [Translatron]

He tias gone too far I am distressed to make a Today the same Raja of Manda has become the point in 1h1s regard Today Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee leader of all. 53 Motion of Confidence JYAISTHA 7, 1918 (Saka) Molton of Conhdence 5 4

[English] MR. CHAIRMAN : Jaswant S~nghj~,In any case he is not here Why should you refer to his name7 I am astonished that he is also the self-accepted leader of my good friend, Chidambaram. I, at times, wonder at the transformations that are taking place SHRI JASWANT SlNGH I am not referr~ng in the political scene of the country. And, all is (Interruptions) because of this two-point-programme, 'give me the chair; stop BJP'. In 1990, when the Raja of Manda MR CHAIRMAN . Please concll~de Th~swill be did no1 have the majority in this House, he took his your last polnt own tlme. He took his own time, he sought the vote of this House, he sought to be defeated in this House, before he resigned. What was my good friend, the SHRl JASWANT SlNGH . I hope you will approve eminent barrister from Calcutta7 . (Interrupt~ons) my restramt because I am act,.ally not referrmg to Where, then, was your call for all these moralities? that fact where~nsome dublous characters were I will proceed further. carr~ed111 an lnd~anA~rforce plane trom Varanasl to Pune If I do not refer to ~t ~t 1s because I do not SHRl SOMNATH CHATTEHJEE . You let him belleve In th~swhole busrness of gull! through down. assoclatlon if th~sgu~lt through assoclatlon does not MR. CHAIRMAN , Jaswantli, your time IS golng Ile there, then how th~sgu~lt through assoc~at~oncan away. It IS over, really You do not listen to others, Ile w~thpoor and hapless Kalpanath', I feel sorry for please . rt The assertion made by hon Pawar was about SHRl JASWANT SlNGH . How can I not listen, economlc securlty and tthe economlc growtt~that had, Madam, when my hon tr~end,the hon. Member from been demonstrated by the prevlous Government I Bolpur speaks? How can I not listen to h1m7 I have would lke to ment~onjust four or ltve broad polnters to I am sure, you, w~thcompassion in your In the past three years the tlscal def~c~thas exceeded heart. . (Interrupt~ons) all estimates Accord~ngto the lnterlm budget the Interm budget of 1996-97 11 stands at Rs 62 DO0 SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE The last gasping crore or f~vepercent of GDP These are not the hon Member from Ch~ttorgarh,In your garb of oplnlons These are the facts And ~f these are the Finance M~nister,I wlsh, you have been In another facts, it does not Ile in Shr~Sharad Pawar's realm Government not wastlny your tlme there the hon Member from ~aramat~who ~therw~seIS a SHRI JASWANT SlNGH Madam I will say just great spec~allstIn many matters but IQ such matters one word about contmulty because a reference was ~t would be Imprudent for h~rnIC encroach on made on the nature of Government Though I have terr~tor~es Madam today because of thrs made this polnt earher. I th~nk,need to rerterate it Government Government borrow~ng1s runnrng at The Constitution does not mpl.e arv d~stinctron the rate of an average of Rs 3 000 crore per month between Government that IS yet to win ~tsconf~dence At Rs 3 000 crore per month of Governmen! and that has not won its conf~dence I accept the borrow~ng ~t IS the worst kind of prvfl~gacythat we polnt that there are restraints upon Government and have seen s~nce Independence Because of those restraints have been followed fa~thfullyby th~s excessive adhoc borrowrngs from the RBI we are Government, under the hon the Prime Minister, Shri head~ngtowards the srtuat~onof accelerated ~nflatton Atal Bihari Vajpayee. I clte the example of Kashm~r comb~nedw~th squeeztn9 cred~twhere ~t IS needed We have a major polit~caldifference w~ththe for the non-food sector trade Industry and Congress Party. We were of the vlew that the t~meis commerce In the past frve years of what they mls- not correct to hold elect~onsin Kashmir We had call economlc reform programme and ltke to put sa~d.'despite and notwithstandmg our objection to across as the prrnc~palach~evement reflects for a holding elections In Kashm~r,we will part~c~pate' movement on the per~lous sttuatlon o! our We Inherited that dec~s~on infrastructure Not one megawatt of pcwer has been Just as we honoured the dec~s~onto go ahead In the past f~veyears on account ci the!r so-called wlth the elect~onsin Kashmir The other ~nher~ted economlc reforms policy. not ohe k~lometerroaa contlnu~ty,the other inher~teddec~sion is the only added, not one port created Madam I wtth great decis~onthat this Government carried forward and sense of respons~b~l~typut ~t to the House that the only with the national interest In mind. Madam. I power sector In the country is on t+e verge of make one appeal on only two aspects The prlnc~pal collapse There 1s a Report of Energy Comm~ttee speaker trom the principal party In Oppos~tion,the whlch my good fr~endsshare the openma sentence hon. Members is from Baramat1 dr~d11 i. ,ery strange ot that Report IS 'Energy IS securrty And th~skind because when Coca-Cola was to come up, suddenly of sltuat~onIn the power sector ~mper~lsthe nat~ons a lot of land was found near Baramati, Coca-Cola securlty and ~fthere IS any one respons~bletor that could buy land only near bar am at^. il 1s you. the Congress Party that IS responsthle and 55 Motran of Confidence MAY 28, 1996 Motion of Confidence 5."

you have chosen to be driven by this mindless driver effort been made to find that LCM of common to imperil the country. understanding in this country. I applaud Sardar MR CHAIRMAN . Are you concluding now? Surjeet Singh Barnala. I may differ with him from the details of his suggestion. But I applaud him for the SHRl JASWANT SlNGH I do have number of : urge that he says. When he talks of a National other points. But I will conclude. It is only fair because Government, he is not talking of the form, he is you have been most considerate. talking of the substance, to find a common equation. I. speaking on behalf of my party, my Government You are rejecting that. How the collectivity of 18 or and on behalf of all of us here, the supporting p'arties 20 or whatever the number is, you are rejecting that - it is a generosity that they lend their support to us common understanding. You are rejecting that attempt on principle - I do feel that this debate or the kind of the hon. Prime Minister to find a working of post-electlon alliance-making or coming together relationship, by which lndia could benefit. without any programmes is really like changing the rules of the game after the goal has been scared. Madam, I have one more thought. This is the first The electorate of lndia has scored the goal: and we time that we are witnessing, Shri Somnathji, in our are clearly the wlnners of that The goal having tieen country what we have never witnessed before. All made, this collection, along, lndia has displayed in all elections, an acceptance of the electoral verdict, no matter how [Transla tion] unpalatable or how unacceptable it may be. We have Sardarji has mentioned about 17-18 political witnessed thls in our neighbouring countries and I parties. do not want to name them. We have witnessed in our neighbouring countries, precisely this - to reject [Englrsh] the verdict of the electorate, moving on the basis of

I do ask the hon Member from Bolpur that if this rejection. ' . is such a wonderful collection and such a wonderful gathering, then why drd you dissuade the very 14.29 hrs. eminent Indian and the very distinguished and a (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) great partrrot, your own Chief Minister? Why did you dissuade your Chlef Mlnister from taking over the We are not fast approaching that point of rejecting responsibility? You dissuaded him because you the electorate's verdict by treating some as outside yourself are not convinced of the credibility of the the panes. Please do not do it, because the path ,arrangementmthat you are making Why? Why, down this of rejectingathe electorate's verdict simply Madam? Why is the Congress Party so tall? They because it is politically inconvenient to you is not a are fearful of what Shri Sharad Pawar will do, and path that lndia should take. What does the experience what will happen if they come into the Government of our neighbours teach us is the perils of that~path. ~h;i Sharad Pawar will get rid of Shri Narasimha Rao - the corridors of Parl~amentare full of these Mr. Speaker, Sir. I conclude by appealing to all kinds of rumours ..(Interruptions) I am very glad to of you, even now, to think of India, rise above your hear that. I think. you should tell that to Shri Sharad immediate passions, rise above your immediate very quickly .(lnterrupt~ons) prejudices and think of the arrangements, by convinced in your mind that the hrangernent that Sir. I have one fmal concluding thought. This is a serious thought. I urge you to reflect on this. you are trying to bring about will sub-serve the interest of India; and only then take the path that you Madam. I am sorry, I am repeating the mlstake of wish to take. addressing wu as Srr The word is unisex; and I am sure you will not mlnd this error of tongue or the MR. SPEAKER . Mr. Prabin Sarma may speak for slip of tongue. three minutes please. Madam, parliamentary or elected democracy is (Interruptions) in itself a compromise. Polittcal parties are MR. SPEAKER : We are left with only fifteen themselves compromise on Ideas. We arrive at an minutes now. Do not waste the time. LCM, the lowest common factor of equation. Political parties work on the LCM of equation Hon. Shri Atal (Interruptions) Biharl Vajpayee's Government has attempted to find MR. SPEAKER : That is why I am telling you not that LCM of common undertstanding in India. I to waste the time. If you stand up like this, you will beheve'and I believe this sincerely - I do not say this with any partisan feellng - that never, in the decade not be getting your chance. You are wasting the time. of the 1980s or In the 1990s, has such a sincere (Interruptions) 57 Motion of Conl~dence JYAISTHA 7, 1918 (Saka) Mohon of Conffdence 5 8

14.31 hrs. tor secular~sm,democracy and are pro-people The BJP In the~rnian~testo has not been able to fmd a DR. PRABIN CHANDRA SARMA (Guwahati) : Sir, place to mcorporate the work programmes whlch are I express my sincere gratitude on my own behall benef~c~alto people, who l~veIn the vlllages and on behalf on Members of Parliament from AGP. Therefore, we, the people of Assam who are mostly I have taken the stend to take pat? in the debate on llv~ngIn the v~llages,have not been able to see the Motion moved by the hon. Prime Minister and at much important programmes for the people llv~ngIn the very outset, I oppose the Motion. the v~llagesand programme of act~onwh~ch they Today, lot of ref'erences have been made in the oppose to ~mplement These are some of the po~nts House regarding the State of Assam and probably. for wh~chwe have a lot of d~fferencew~th the BJP for that matter, the North-Eastern region. We feel I do not know ~f I should mentlon ~t or not but thls proud that the House has taken cognisance of the has glven us somf shock before the elect~ons at the fact that Assam also exists as a State within the tlme of the elect~onsand after the eiect~ons country of India. Very ,many different issues have References have also been made to that There IS a been raised, particularly one by our hon. Prime long-rope pol~cyThe long-rope pollcy of the BJP IS Minister, Shri Vajpayee that lot of ~nfiltrationhas taken not acceptable to the people of Assam They want to place into the State of Assam and when the very rule the country from Delh~they want to d~ctatethe demography and the existence of the State Of Assam people of A~samfrorn Delhl we do not like thls We is threatened, I am extremely sorry to mention that want that the reg~onalFart~es should be cons~dered he has not been able to f~nda programme of action equally tmportant and they should also be pro- to contain these two very contentlous Issues people Now there has been an emergence of a References have also been made by hon. Jaswant large number of Part~esAll these Part~eshave come Smgh regarding the events of Assam In 1983 and together to accept the mandate of the people and also in 1985. But I am extremely sorry to mentlon the mandate IS for federal~sm Whether some of us that a regional party which came into ex~stenceIn hke 11 or not the country may be In the near future 1985 and the Government elected by the popular IS headmg towards a federal Government So we mandate was pulled down. probably w~ththe actlve are In favour of a federal Government We want that cooperation of the BJP and the then Pr~meMinster powers be decentral~sed through a federal Mr Chandra Shekhar who must be present In th~s Government The BJP IS a centr~stforce hke many House, taking plea that one person was abducted other nat~onalPart~es But then we opDose centrlst and he was to be released w~th~nseven days forces We want that all the resources at our command ...(Interruptions). .Now, you please make your points be util~sed by the partlc~pation of our own only when I finlsh Government Now, I have taken the stand to speak tor my MR SPEAKER. Mr Sarma, please conciude now people, tor the people of my own constituency and also the people of Assam and tor that matter, the DR. PRABIN CHANDRA SARMA Sir, I want t? people of the whole country The verd~ctof this be glven some more t~meto make my points election is clear I would l~keto lay exphas~son th~s So, the people of Assam have been feel~ngfor particular point The verd~ct1s that :here has been the last fwe decades that they have been explo~ted an emergence of d~fferentpart~es w~th d~tferent and th~sfeel~ng has to be assuaged Th~smust be manifestoes but very much In tune w~ththe enshrined. assuaged by the programmes of the Government professed concept of the Constitut~on In the that IS at power at the Centre There has been a manifesto and also rn the function~ngof the feel~ngof d~sparityand d~cr~m~nattonIn the nitnds of Government of the BJP headed by Shr~Vajpayee. the people of Assam That feel~ngmust go frorn the~r there has been lot of departures in the work m~ndsThere has also been a feel~ngthat Assam programme. The concept of one nation-one people has been neglected On economlc and varlcus other theory has glven us a shock and the very unity and Issues The economlc programmes have not been Integrity of the nat~on1s cons~deredto be at stake taken up In r~ghtearnest for the development of For this reason, this part~cularphilosophy of BJP is Assam as a result of whlch in splte df havrng a lot not acceptable to us The country of lnd~alwes in of natural resources the State IS one of the poorest diversity and unfortunately, they are speakmg of one State In the country It IS for th~sreason that we are nation and one people and they have forgotten that feellng that the people of Assam should be there are many people w~thdifferent cultures. On understood In the r~ghtperspective this point also, we have lot of d~fferencesThe verdict Recently an lncldent took place In lov.er Ascam is clear that this is not in favour of BJP nor for any Th~saspect has also been referred to by the hon of the natlonal partles to rule the nation. Home Mm~sterof Ind~a,Shr~ Nurh Manohar Josht The verdict is clearly for those Parties who have The Government ot Assam headed by Shr~Prafulla faith in the Constitution and those people who stand Kumar Mohanta was Installed orr 15th of May 1996 59 Motion of Confidence MAY 28, 1996 Motion of Confidence 6 0

Violence started on the 13th of May. The Chief but only perform 'puja'. The unfortunate thing is that Minister had convened an all political Party meeting demolition took place in the presence of Party and the representatives of the different political President, Mr. Advani and other big leaders. Such Parties including myself, Shri Arun Kumar Sharma, incidents cause disharmony in the country. hon. MP, one Minister, Shri Biraj Kumar Sharma and Our Party visualised long back that in the 11th Shri Durgadas Boro visited different camps where Lok Sabha no single party will get the majority. We victims were kept and we saw their plight. We came know it that in the Centre there will be a coalition to the conclusion that there were some designs Government comprising of partles deeply committed behind it. The design was not understood by the to the national unity, integrity, socialism, secularism, hon. Home Minister of India. It is really a sad stability and development of the country. This commentary. To add fuel to the fire, the top most Government will be c2mm1tted to dynamic officials left Assam when there was transition. Assam administration, development, genulne declaration of was left with only 41 companies of forces whereas power, welfare measures, clean eff~cient and at the time of elections it had 250 companies of transparent administration and so many other things. forces and before elections the State had 200 companies of torces for controlling the internal law Today 1s the birthday of Late N.T. Rama Rao. and order situation. Under the leadership of Shri Naidu, various new projects have been started in Andhra Pradesh. He At the pre-elect~ontime there were 200 ha's implemented a number of schemes for the companies to guard the internal law and order downtrodden and backward people. He has given sltuatlon. However, In spite of our having made a food, clothing, shelter and various other facilities to request, the Government of India declined to send these people so that they are uplifted. What is more forces to guard the territory of Assam. Mr. Murli happening under the present Government? So many Manohar josh^, the Hon. Minister made a mls- things have been said. It is only the BJP which was statement of facts that he wanted to go to Assam on responsible for the downfall of the VP Singh 21sl but he was not allowed. This is not correct. In Government in 1990. It is only because of the mandir fact, Mr. Mohanta himself requested him to visit issue that it happened then. Mand~ris in the hearts Assam on 22nd It is not correct that he was not of the people. it is not on the streets. Everyone has asked to vtsit Assam. a mandir in his heart: Mahqtma Gandhi once said There are certr-~nother issue which I'wanted to that there is only one God whether he is in a mosque, raise but tlme does not permit me. I hope in this in a church or in a mandir Even among Hindu Gods House we will have enough tlrne to make our points we have Lord Krishna, Lord Rama, Lord Shiva and clear W~ththese few words. I conclude by saying many others. Religion cannot be dragged into the that the mollon moved by the poet, philosopher and streets and it should not create commotion in the our beloved Prime M~n~steris not acceptable to us minds of the people. That is why we strongly oppose at the moment and therefore, we oppose it. We hope this BJP Government. that the BJP will realloe its deficiencies and will We all know what role they played in the come up to our expectations. happenings of recent past in UP. We know what type MR SPEAKER : Why are you standing again of support they have given foi a Governrr~ent and and agam? I told you to wait, Mr. Charles withdrawn it later Their tactics are quite clear. With the support of 22 to 22.5 percent of the votes polled, SHRl BOLLA BULl RAMAIAH (Eluru) . Mr. Speaker. Sir. I strongly oppose the motion moved by they formed the Government whereas the United Front the Prime Minister. Though personally we have great has got more than 45 percent of the votes polled. It respect and affection for Mr Vajpayee, our party's has definitely got a r~ghtto say that it will be able view is that the BJP Government In the Centre will to run the Gover.?ment without any difficulty. be a severe setback to the communal harmony and Shri Jaswant Singh has just said that the unity and integr~tyof the nation No doubt, Mr. economy has to be improved. We have the ability to Vajpayee is a moderate man having good ideas but see that inflation is controlled, power generation is it is known that he will pe gu~dedby RSS and VHP improved, the transportallon is improved. They should who will be diiving BJP from. behind the curtains. be improved but not with the help of borrowings as So, under his leadership the country will face a lot suggested by Shri Jaswant Singh. There are factors of problems Do you remember the day on which which can be made to operate. Between the control Babri Masjid was demol~shed?It was a very important of inflation and unemployment we have to see which day. It was on the eve of centenary celebrations of is more important for the country. We have to see it Swamy Vivekanand's Chicago Addresses. This depends upon the economy. We have a lot of talented unfortunate thing was to be done on the same day. people in the country when compared to the On 4th December, 1992, Mr. Vajpayee promlsed .in advanced countries like the United States of America. this House that they will not demolish the mosque We should definitely make use of their abilities and Motion of Conlrdence JYAISTHA 7, 1918 (Saka) Mot~onof Conlfdence 6 2

their strength In order to improve our economy within to retaln caste~sm,we want to erad~cate~t I thtnk ~t IS the resources available. We will try to build up the lmperatwe to speak for those who are v~ctlmof th~s social infrastructure if not In the next lwe years, in system Conceal~nga d~seaseIS no cure We should the next decade, The United Front has the combined have to ponder over ~tand have to fmd a cure We talk strength of various Parties. We will be able to work about castes only w~tha view to flnd ~tscure together with coordination. What do we propose to do by talking about caste- The United Front is very widely represented in we want to erad~catecastelsm and usher In a change the country whereas the BJP has its representation in this country trom onlly a few parts of the country. We assure that The other thmk whlch Atal 11 sa~dwas about change we have tt,e responsibility and we will be able to I do not know what type of change BJP wants to tmng perform better based on various factors which we about, but these days everybody IS talk~ngabout change ar2 going to mention here. In the current Lok Sabha, as you can see, we have 22 Members of Parliament When w~ththe formation of our Government In War belong~ngto Mushm and Christian mlnorltles. Out of Pradesh Iast~ngfour months we brought mtc ex~stence their number of 150 to 160 Members of Parliament, at Lucknow a square symbol~smgchange Irl order to how many belong to the rr11nor1t1es7This shows establ~shthe the credpnt~alsof Bahujan Sarr~a~wad~ clearly that they do not have any representat~onof Party as a party whlch stood for change the Bhamya minorities In the Lok Sabha It is a clear ~ndlcation Janata Party and other partles opposed our niove that minorities are only represented in the Un~ted We started organlslng fest~valscommemoratln~ our Front. We have the major~tyin the House and we great flgures ltke Baba Saheb Ambedker Mahalma can prove to the country that we have the ab~lityto Jyot~raoPhule Sahuj~Maharai and Per~yarwho were run the affairs of the country more effectively than mstrumental In heraldlng an era of change When we anybody else organ~sedthe Pertyar Mela Bharttya Ja.ia!a Party [Transla rion] opposed ~t vehemently Mr Josh1 who IS slt9ng over here came down all the way to Lucknow to Impress SHRl KANSHI RAM (Hosh~arpur) Mr Speaker, upon me the underabli~ty of organlslng the festival at Sir, you have decided to allocate t~meon bas~sof Lucknow and adv~sedus to hold ~t In Oelh~Instead 1f number but the tlnie has not been glven on that we were very partrcular about ~t sa~dto t11m bas~s Even then, I w~llcooperate with you. I w~ll (Interrupt~ons)I want to fmsh my speech In flve mlnutes conclude my speech w~thmflve mlnules I satd to him that at present we ttave our [English] Government In Uttar Pradesh, that 1s why we are holdlng ~t in Lucknow We will change the venue to Delh~when MR. SPEAKER : Thank you very much we have our Government there for whlch we have [Translat~on] already started mak~ngefforts In order to be able to get r~dof the caste system on our own and unlte and SIiRi KANSHi RAM But we shall expect from organlse people by breaking the caste barr~ers you that th~sthing should not happen in future Baba Saheb Ambedkar had brought to us separate [English] electorate which IS not there today We therefore des~re MR. SPEAKER : Okay. to be able to have majority on our own We, want to unlte people Instead of dlvld~ngthem that IS why we [Translation] talk of those sectlons of people who form the bulk of the s5clety (Bahujan Sarnaj) SHRl KANSHI RAM . I will not mention any such points which has been repeated again in this House. Here a change is being talked about now but we I would like to raise only two points, which have not had to face opposit~onwhen we brought into existence been discussed. Yesterday, Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee at Lucknow a square symbol~singchange and later on made a mention in his speech that everybody talks when we organised festivals commemorating tb~osegreat about communalism hut nobody speaks about caste. figures who had longed and str~vedfor change I am, Well, I would like to speak about casteism. The therefore, of the op~nionthat atthough the BJP does say people who are victims of casteism in th~scountry nice things, its conduct tends to be otherwise. Golng by want to speak about it They want to speak because the present signs of gradual lrnprovement In the~r they want to readicate casteism in this country Baba conduct, they declde lo cooperate with us In heraldmg Saheb Ambedkar wrote a Annihilation of castes 60 change In this country together In the comlng tlmes years ago in 1936 which he had written to annihilate when thelr conduct may stand constderably ~mproved caste-system. We struggled for whole of 1993 The In any case, I thmk the need to bring about a change, motive of that struggle was to break the castes and joint a soclal transformat~onIS thls country IS paramount for the society. To raise the issue of catsteisrn IS necessary those people who have been through the ages for those who are victlms of this system. We do not want downgraded, Insulted and subdued on the basls of the 63 Motion of Confidence MAY 28, 1996 Motion of Confidence 64 soclal system. This Is why these people talk in terms of the decisive factor in our national politics today. Just caste in order to bring about a change and by invoking when we consider the nature of the people's mandate, caste they tend to unite rather than divide people. we find that an era of coalition has already started at the Centre. This means that the BJP with its unitary bias We have to strive not only for social change but alround change. For that matter we will have to bring cannot be aware of the fact of federalism, cannot be about a change in the economic field also. In our country aware of the fact of th~sradical change towards the those people who produce foodgrains by ploughing the federal structure of our country. They are not aware of fields, do not own the fields they plough so assiduously. the fact that the regional parties have become a potent Undergoing misery and starvation they migrate from force in our national development. their villages to cities. As our Government itself tells us, 15.00 hrs. 18 crore people have so far deserted the countryside and settled in the cities. Even in the cities their condition With these words, I beg to conclude my speech is most miserable. As we live in a city like Delhi, we are according to my commitment to finish my speech within well aware of their condition. Therefore, we stand for a minute. bringing about a change not only in the economic and Lastly, I oppose the Motion of Confidence because social fields but in every aspect of human life and will I oppose fascism I oppose the Motion of Confidence extend our co-operation to any party willing to effect because of my love for democrary. I oppose the Motion such change. But under the prevailing circumstances, of Confidence because I love my country more. I am convinced that the Bhartiya Janata Party despite MR. SPEAKER : Now I call upon Shri G M all its professions for change, is not the least interested Banatwalla to speak. I really adm~reyour patience. in it. They are adherents of the ideology of Manu, which in my opinion, is an ideology wh~chstands to thwart Please be very very brief. charrge, rather than bring it about. Therefore, keeping SHRl G.M. BANATWALLA : Sir, I will cooperate with this idaolocy in view, I oppose this Motion. you. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the day and the hour of reckoning [English] has come. The Prime Minister Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee SHRl PRAMOTHES MUKHERJEE : Mr. Speaker, has moved a Motion tor expression of confidence in his Sir, thank you for the opportunity given to me to express Council of Ministers my views on the Motion of Confidence raised by the I must say that it is a national tragedy that the BJP hon. Prime Minister Shri Atal Bihar~Vajpayee. led Governmet has assumed power. It is as a result of On behalf of my party RSP, I rise to oppose the a constitutional hazard It is as a result of a constitutional motion This is only because they are a minor~ty hazard that the BJP and the Shiv Sena party are in Government, absolutely minority. The Counc~lof power at the present hour. Otherwise, Sir, trom day one Ministers headed by Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee does not it was extremely clear that the BJP has not majority and represent the will of the people. They do not carry with can never think of major~tyin this House. It is therefore them the people's mandate. The people's mandate has a wonder how Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee accepted the gone not in favour of the BJP, the people's mandate has invitation of the President to form the Government. It is gone not in favour of their claim for the establishment very obvious that it was for party interests that a of the Hindu State in India but the people's mandate constitutional process was exploited. The BJP only has gone in favour of secularism. Moreover, the people's believed that it is better to rule and be lost rather than mandate has gone not in favour of one party rule with never to rule at all. Such a cavalier attitude brought its opportunist allies but the people's mandate has gone them to power. Such an exploitation of the constitutional in favour of a coalition. It is my observation and I process has brought them to power. It is a deplorable consider that the Prime Minister. Shri Atal Bihari exploitation of the constitutional process. I am sure that Vajpayee should immediately step down to pave the the BJP led Government, through this Mot~onof way for a secular coalition Government. Confidence in the Council of Ministers will be thrown There is a question of stability in our parliamentary out lock stock and barrel. democracy. Stab~l~tycannot be defined in terms of Mr. Speaker, Sir, tall talks are made of security of number only Stability can Ibe defined in terms of good life and property of the mlnorlties, hollow assert~ons understanding in terms of good programmes among that they are. Here we have the BJP and the Shiv Sena the partners of the coalition So far as the Uttar Prdesh party who do not even belleve in the concept of alliance between BJP and ESP IS concerned. it is a fact minorities. That is why, wherever they came to power in that the BJP cannot offer the country a good and stable the States, they have been wmdlng up the Minorities coalit~onGovernment Commission Agaln, we find that there IS a radlcal change just Now the Home Minister went to the extent of calling after the people's mandate and that change is from one everyone a Hlndu, who is living in Hindustan. But a party rule to federalism. Regional parties have become Hindu resident of Nepal, not a resident of Hindustan is 6 5 Motion of Confidence .IYb\ISTtIA 7, 1918 (Sake) Motfan ol Confidence 66

also called a Hindu. A Hindu resident 01 any other from Guru Golwarkar's thoughts rlf what IS golng to be foreign country, brought up In that country hov~ngthe the pocltlon unSer thew ideology of the mlnor~tles citizenship of that country, not residing in Hindustan, is Theretore, the Muslim League has taken a considered also called a Hindu. Therefore, Sir, such misleading view and a considered declslon from day one We shall type of propaganda goes on and 11.1IIL,~~. ' .ome Minister be opposing the Motion of Conf~dencein order that this had also the courtesy and was pleased to refer to the Council of Min~stersis thrown out with all the force that Muslim League and challenged the secular credentials this kicuse can command of the Muslim League. I know very well that they look at their face in the mirror. They got terrified of their anti- secular Image and then want to dump it on somewhele SHRl JAI PRAKASH (Hisar) : Mr Speaker Sir, I rlse or the other. Otherwise I challenge that not a single to support the motlon presented by the Prime M~n~ster. incident can be shown of the Musl~mLeague hawng Shr~Sharad Pawar was stating yesterday that Bhart~ya ever adopted any anti-secular move. Janata Party has brought a stigma to the democracy. Mr Speaker, Sir, they talk about the seccrlly of the Bhartiya Janata Party has not done so but the people minorities We know their track record of India witk the~rmandate have sent it to th~sHouse as a largest mqle party and we have smply respected On the 6th of December, 1992, the,ce BJP cadres tile peoples mandate It 1s the Congress party wt~h and the Sangh Parivar cadres, In the full view of the has st~gmatvedthe democracy You should remember BJP leaders and w~ththe encou~agementof the BJP the manner In wti~chthe Congress leaders resorted ic and Sangh Parivar leaders, anl~dstapplause from Sar~gt~ horse trad~ngIn the lobby of th~svery house and you Parwar leaders, brought about the shahadal of Babr~ wrll nut fmd any :,uc h other ex5mple throughout the Masj~d.We know the~rtrack record We know that they world Th~srnatlrr has been pendmg In the Court at cannot even respect tl~e~rown Pres~dent.the~r ow1 preser~l Then how corne th~sparty can brand the leaders and Mm~sters.The shameful th~ngsof Gularal Bhart~yaJanata Party as a st~gmat~zedparty How can are there before us Therefore si ;!-, ',-.''. , asserllons they talk about the stlgmat~zat~onof the dernozracy7 will not wln anybody W~thdeep regret I have to say that all such powers The Prime Minister has been pleased to refer to the are today comlng together wh~chhas been opposlng question and the need tor a un~fornlCIVII Code and the the then Pr~rneMmlster and the'present leader of the abrogat~onof the Personal Law TIFIP does not perm11 opposltlon on lelecom scandal only f~ve SIX rnorl ,s me to dwell at length I must only say that an zttempt back ":Interruptions) How Congress Party has at torc~ble~mposlllon ot any unitorni Clvit Code w~ll become blern~shless now' make 11 only a d~v~s~veforce As far as Sharlat is concerned, ~t 1s a dlvme law ana a Muslin would hke I would !~keto tell my friends In the Nat~onalFront to lay down his Me rather than be depr~vedof the that today efforts are gomg on to mislead tt~epeople Sharlat Today Congress party talks about communahsrn Among our fr~ends Akah Dal leader Shri Surlrt S~nghBarnala Now Ram Jethmalan~Sati~b IS also the Law has been tellmy that two ~ssuesportaln~ng to Haryana M~n~sterThe very hrst day when he went lo the office, ?nd Punjat) have been l~ngermgon for the last 15-20 he called all the flies relat~nqto Ihe Personal Law and years One 1s about the d~gg~ngaf S Y L canal and the un~formCw~l Code other concerns transfer of Chandtgarh and Faz~lka For pauclty of t~nie I only want to rprnlno the Ccngress Party has been In power In the Centre since Government of what Dr Arnbedkar sad In the 'he creat~onof Punjab and Haryana In 1966 but th~s Constituent Assembly wh~lelaliclng of the un~lormCIWI party nad a pol~cythat the Issues pendlng between Code It was Dr. Ambedkar who nad sa~dtnat that Haryana and Punlab should not be resolved Efforts Government will be a mad Goverl,,.iz,,: :' -11 w~lltry to were made to lnclte trouble between these two States impose a un~formCIVII Code on the unwlllmg people What can be the worse act of lncltlng communal~sm It was the judgement ut the mad Government that was (Interrupt~ons)1111 recent past only the Congress given and apphes to bow the people who are none Governments were In power In Haryana as well as In there In the Treasury Benches Delh~Then why d~dthey make no effort to resolve these Issues [lnterrupbons) There are several thlngs but you are ~mpat~ent Agam and agam I will have to corne to you, ask~ngfor SHRl R L BHATIA Ask the Akai~s ,lnrerrupt~ons~ tlme, and at that tlme also you will be ~ndulg~ng SHRl JAI PRAKASH In 1991, Congress party used Therefore, I will conclude, leavmg as~deseveral other lo say that they would br~ngthe S.Y L water matters. Th~snat~onal tragedy of the~rhav~ng come 10 jlnferrupt~ons)Today, their Members of Parhament have power must come to an end lmmedlately In the natlonal forte~tedthew securlty deposits. I would like to tell one interest. We shall be opposing their polity, the philosophy tlrmg to niy fr~endsthat today the Congress party has Of the Hindutva and the Hmdu Rashtra. The hon. -

Member, lndrajit Guplaji, has already read out abstracts " Expunged as ordored by the Char 6 7 Mobon of Conf~dence MAY 28, 1996 Motion of Confidence 68 been functioning under the leadership of such a leader under any number of veils, but our penetrating sight . .(Interruptions) You are told to vote according to your can count the number of wrinkles on your face. NOW, conscience ...(Interruptions) These fr~endsare bound to you should look into all these issues. the whip otherwise they could have left the Congress Any way, I have sympathy with you since the party...( Interruptions) departing once deserve sympathy. This is the month of I would like to say only one thing that today the Moharram and while observing mourning we may bid people throughout the country have been expressing you good-bye. the desire to have the Bhartiya Janata Party Government. Wlth these words, I conclude my speech We accept this fact that we could not get complete majority but on the other hand the persons who have SHRl SHlBU SOREN (Dumka) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, contested elections against the Congress party are we are discussing the motion of Confidence presented going to form the Government with the support of by the Prime Minister. But going through the discussion Congress party by duping the voters. Do you think the it seems that the Government will be voted out today people woulds ever forglve this National Front' The itself. reason behind this IS that the people who had waged I come from Jharkhand and our demand for a a battle against the then Prime Mmister on sugar scam separate Jharkhand State is a long pending one. We and the Prime Minister got one of his colleagues have lost election in Jharkhand and that too from BJP. imprisoned under TADA, today the hon. member has stated that the former Prime Minister is involved in the I have continuously been asking a question. Today I am sugar scam ...(Inlerrupt~ons) Then, how can they be asking the same question from the Prime Minister that blemishless today. I would like to make a request to my you always tell to protect one's cultural heritage and for friends in the Congress party that they should state this simple reason you have changed the name of publicity whether or not they are involved in the sugar Bombay city as Mumbai Jharkhand is our mythological scam? If they are, then the lefl front should not seek name whlch is highly revered. Since our culture belongs support from such a party...( Interruptions) We are to jungle they renamed Jharkhand as Vananchal like prepaced to seek a fresh mandate from the people. Uttaranchal for Uttarakhand. What does this mean? If a Therefore, let us seek thls mandate man loses his identity and history than he is not going unitedly...( Iriterruptrons) In Haryzna, Bhartiya Janata to gain anything. Which state do we want and which Party and Haryana Vikas Party has formed the state they intend to give to us are two different things. Government under the leadership of Choudhry Bansi Secondly, we Adivasis have our own traditions. We Lal ..(Interruptions) live in jungles. We have our distinct type of castes, I conclude while supporting the motion once agaln. names as well as surnames like Tapo, Kashyap and Ura. Now they tell us to include Ram with our names. SHRl SULTAN SALAHUDDIN OWAlSl (Hyderabad): If under compulsion we add Ram to our names than Mr. Speaker, Sir, I oppose the Motlon presented by what will be ~tsconsequences. One cannot help it if ~ajpiyeeSaheb seeking the Vote of Confidence since they frame such rules to harass the afflicted Adivasis. they accepted the offer to form the Government despite the tact that they did not have the majority perhaps with Ours demand is for a separate State, they also talk the motive that their name should go down in the History. about giving a separate State. But what sort of separate Some poet has rightly said State will it be? I, therefore, urge the centre to be liberal in their approach. In every nook and corner of the "Badnam Agar Honge To Kya Naam Na Hogan country, especially in the areas having forests, the Adivasis are living in large numbers. Everytime the They are interested in their name only. On the other hand a similar historical event flashes across my Government tells that it is going to work for the welfare memory that when the rule of Bahadur Shah Zafar was and development of Adivasis but they are being ruined on the verge of collapse, the name of Jawan Bakht was instead ...(Interruptions) being proposed as heir to the Sultanate. Now the same PROF. RITA VERMA (Dhanbad) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, history is being repeated here and the present Shibuji I would take one minute's time ...( Interruptions) Government would become the past after 15 minutes. However, today we are passing through a very unusual [English] situation and times I fail to understand, what do they MR. SPEAKER : No Madam, If you compel me, I want. Then they say that they intend to make changes shall make you sit here. You are in the penal of Chairman. in the Muslim. Personal Law. You want to protect your own religion but you want to put restrictions on others. [Translation] Sometimes you talk about Muslim Personal Law and other time you express your intention ot constructing SHRl SHlBU SOREN : Today, our colleagues from the Ram Temple in place of Babri Masjid. I would like Assam raised their points about Assam. I would like to to know whether this is the secularism about which submit that more than two lakh Adivasis including Vajpayae jl makes claims? You may cover your face Santhals and Bodos have become homeless. But 6 9 Motion of Confidence JYAISTHA 7, 1918 (Saka) Motion of Confrdence 70 nothing has been done by the Centre in this regard. just to have a good leader. The party he leads must be Where these Adivasis will go as they do not have house equally acceptable. We cannot say th~sabout the BJP. to live in. They are victims of a conspiracy. We will have Some of its policies are very doubtful. People eye them to look into it. We support secular State and are in with suspic~on.A large section of Goan population favour of a united India. We should go for a secular comprises the minorities., They are not yet ready to State. accept BJP policies. With these words, I conclude and oppose the motion Today, all the secular fcrces have come together. of confidence. Therefore, while declaring my unflinching support to this Front, I oppose the motion of confidence tabled by [English] this Government. SHRl ALEMAO CHURCHIL (Mormugao) : Mr. MR. SPEAKER :Thank you, Mr. Mahendra Karma, Speaker, Sir, I rise on behalf of my party, United Goa you may speak for just two minutes. Democratic Party to oppose the Motion of Confidence and to make first ever Konkani speech In this august (Interruptions) House after my mother tongue is included in the Eighth MR. SPEAKER : Do you want me to congratulate Schedule of the Constitution. Mr. Speaker, Sir. you for that.

[Translation] [Translation] 'SHRI ALEMAO CHURCHIL : This time both the SHRl MAHENDRA KARMA (Bustar) : Mr. Speaker, Lok Sabha seats in Goa have gone to regional parties. Sir, I ris6 to oppose the motion of conf~dence.Shri Atal My Party UGDP has won in South Goa, while Bihari Vajpayee was talking about a general consensus Maharashtrawadi Gomantak Party has won in the North. to run the Government. The same thing applies on United Our Goan people. Front also that you should not seek general consesus to run the Government, instead you should seek it for MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Churchil, since you did not forming the Government. Otherwise there is a fear of give notice earlier, we could not arrange translation. If repeating this mistake which was committed by the you want that your speech should be understood by the BJP House, please speak in English today. Next time, you .... give a notice in advance and you can speak in Konkani. (Interruptions)

MR. ALEMAO CHURCHIL : Mr. Speaker, Sir, when [English] I was given the Identity Card, at that time I had given the notice. Just listern to me MR. SPEAKER : That was for oath taking and not [Translation] lor speaking on the debate in the House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, every political party has tried to SHRl ALEMAO CHURCHIL : Mr. Speaker, you must interpret people's mandate in its favour. The fact is that understand my difficulties. (Interruptions) the people of this country have not given their mandate MR. SPEAKER : Okay, you speak. in favour of any party. Therefore, this is the bounden duty of the House as well as the Members to honour the (Interruptions) feelings of the people by forming a National Government MR. SPEAKER : Please do not complicate the and secondly, Left Front, Congress, MPVC and matter. Independents are in high spirits for formmg a United [Translation] Front Government. I want to submit that it will be better if all of them join the Government. This House should SHRl ALEMAO CHURCHIL : Mr. Speaker. Sir, I am not become a forum for the exercise of formation and an MP from Goa. A Representative of the Goans. Goa fall of short-term as well as minority Governments. In is a peaceful land. We never mix religion with politics. order to ensure progress and development of the country All stay together. Hindus-Christians-Muslims... like we need to give a serious thought regarding forming a brothers. Goan people have given a mandate for secular stable Government. I hope that all of us will think towards forces, so that we can support a good Government. We formation of a National Government in view of the new want to work for the welfare of people. We want to put and changing scenario. an end to unemployment. We want to uplift the poor and the OBCs. We have assured Goans of jobs in the [English] KRC. To get all these things done, we want a good DR. JAYANTA RONGPI (Autonomous District) : Mr. Government. Speaker, Sir, I rise here to oppose the Motion of Honourable PM Atal Bihari Vajpayee is not only a Confidence placed by the hon. Prime Minister. During gentlemen, but also an able leader. But it is not enough English Translation of the Speech origmally del~veredmade English Translation of the Speech originally delivered. in Kankani. 7 1 Mot~on01 Confidence MAY 28. 1996 Mot~on01 Conf~dence 72

the debate and also outside the Parliament, the hon. dead bodles have been found. There are reports that a Prime Minister and many leaders of the BJP have been number of dead bodies are being rotten. They could not trying to explain the growth of the BJP from two Members. be taken out because of lack of communication to become the major Opposition Party and now to facilities.. (Interruptions) become the largest single party and the formation of MR. SPEAKER : I have out of the way given you the Government They have explained it as growth. But time very humbly I wint to say to the hon. Prime Minister that all growths are not healthy, some growth are called DR. JAYANTA RONGPI : Sir, it is a very important cancer. So, in the national body sol~t~cyour growth is issue That 1s why I want to say that during the last 13 a cancerous growth and the natlon must gel rld of it. days not a single member of the Cabinet - leave alone the Prime Minister and the Home Minister - has cared SII, the BJP has been talklng about the backward to visit those areas regions, tribal regions and they have been unequ~vocally saying that Uttarakhand or Utlaranchal should be MR. SPEAKER : Those points have been made created as a separate State tor the hill people of Uttar again and again. Follow the example of Mr. Banatwala Pradesh. The are also supporting Jharkhand or what for future they call Vananchal issue. On the Uttaranchal Issue, a DR. JAYANTA RONGPI : I want to say one more unanimous Resolution was passed by the Uttar Pradesh thing. The forces have not reached there. Assembly. If we analyse the activities of the Government during the last 13 days, we can see that they have MR. SPEAKER : This was discussed this morning found time to take decision regarding Enron Project. also. Why are you making all these points? Mr. P.C. But they did not find it proper to take a decision Thomas please. regarding Uttaranchal. I call upon them to answer this SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : It is already 3.30 point They could not find tlme to pass a Resolution on p.m. Please let thrs Government go. the Uttarnachal Issue on whlch they had fought the election in Uttar Pradesh and got the mandate in the DR. JAYANTA RONGPI : Even in the President's Uttar Pradesh hills They ov,e an answer to the people Address, it was not mentioned. of the hills of !Ittar P:r.:j..:,? and all the people of the MR SPEAKER : Please do not go to President's backward reg~csns ' tu ,- ..c~untry Address now. We are on Confidence Motion. Please sit MR SPEAK:'< Rongp~,please conclude now. down. Do not take advantage of my generosity. DR. JAYANTA RONGPI : Sir, I oppose this DR. JAYANTA HLWGPI . Sir, usually I do not take Government and I oppose this Motion of Confidence. much t~meof the House SHRl PC.THOMAS : Sir. I am sorry, I am constrained MR. SPEAKER . You can take more time, next time. to oppose the Motion. I am sorry because a personality DR. JAYANTA RONGPI : Sir, I want to touch upon like Mr Vajpayee is one who IS admired by all. But I am only a few other issues. also sorry that assurances given by the BJP, the call given by the BJP to all the parties saying that they are Sir, BJP is a communal force. It is an established going to be secular, they are going to safeguard the fact. They are communal: there is no doubt about it. whole nation, cannot be given much credence in the They are fascist; there is no doubt about it light of what has happened In the past. I remember in the last Lok Sabha there was a committee consisting of Whenever they talk of their growth, they always mention Bihar saying that they have improved their many of the Members from here who visited Ayodhya. We had talked with leaders of the BJP there. The report performance there. But with the help of what forces? They have progressed with the help of Ranvit Sena. was given and we all hoped that something very concrete is golng to come because an assurance was You have taken the help of landlords and the given that secularism will be safeguarded. The mosque goons ...(Interruphons). They have taken the help of feudal elements. So, not only are they communal and will not be demolished. That was the assurance given fascist but also to Increase their seats they have never to the Committee. Now there is an assurance given by hesitated to take the help of anti-social and feudal the Supreme Court also that the mosque will not be elements Hke Ranvir Sena ... (Interrupt~ons). demolished. But I am sorry now the BJP had to go back from all assurances given in the House to the Supreme Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to conclude by raising only Court and to the people. But I am very happy that Shri one more issue, namely, that not only BJP but every Atal Bihari Vajpayee has been always taking a different other major polltical force has failed to recongnise - stand in this or at least a glimmer of hope was given as we have been busy in seeing who will form the by the speeches of Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee. But I am Government - that during the last 13 days 1,30,000 constrained to say that at this moment the confidence pe3ple have become homeless. They are staying in of the BJP has been complet~lyeroded - the BJP refugee comps in Assam and Bengal. More than 137 themselves know it - as far as the formation of the 73 Motion of Conlldence Motion of Confidence 74

Government is concerned. I am sorry I have to oppose to express my thanks to all those who haw participated It staunchly at this last moment when' I have only half in the discussion on my Motion. This House is meant for a minute more to speak and I do it as my duty as a peaceful, restrained and rational debate. Some friends citizen of India. wanted that there should be no debate on its and the Motion should be put to vote right away so that they [Transla tion] could be enthroned immediately after they left the SHRl R.L. BHATIA (Amritsar) : Today Shri Barnalaji House ... (Interruptions) has grossly misled the House and I want to refute his AN HON. MEMBER : It will be like that only. statement ...(Interruptions). The Akalis are responsible for fanning terrorism in Punjab. The terrorism has taken SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Someone is saying life of 5000 Congressmen... (Interruptions) These people from other side that it will be like that only. This voice went to meet terrorists and they also gave them awards is coming from the Congress benches. Other friends ...(Interruptions) I have received there bullets should remain vigilant. ...(1nterruptions)They said that Akalis came to the power Mr., Speaker, Sir, I have been in Parliament for the 6 times but the Congress party did not allow them to last 40 years. Such occasions have come many times. rule...( Intfirruptions) When they were in power, they were I have been witness to formation of Governments, fighting among themselves and when they were fighting change of Governments and installallon of new with us. These are the peoplo who gave away rewards Governments, but democracy ... (Interryptions) to the extremists. ...( Interruptions) You can get it verified from the Punjab unit of the BJP.. (Interruptions) They [English] are the accomplices of the extremists. They ought to be MR. SPEAKER : Do not make these klnds of condemned. remarks, please. [English] [Translation] MR. SPEAKER : Shr~Raghunandan Lal Bhatia, SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : But on every enough is enough. occasion, democracy in lndia has emerged stronger and I am sure, th~soccasion will not be an exception. [Translation] Mr Speaker Sir, I have been a critic to the SHRl SUKHBIR SlNGH BADAL (Far~dkot). They Governments all these 40 years. Today, most of the are the murderers of the Sikhs ... (Interruptrons) times. I had to listen to criticism. There is a saying in [English] Marathi : "Nindkache ghar asave shojari, i e. MR. SPEAKER , Shr~Raghunandan la1 Bhatia, you are a very seasoned Member of the House . Nindak nlyare rakhiye, aangan kuti chhabaye" You should keep your crit~cnear you, otherwise MR. SPEAKER . Shr~Prabhu Dayal Kather~a,please sycophants will spoil you. If you have a critic, he will sit down. keep you spotless without any cost. The hon. friends who.. (Interrupt~ons) (Interruptrons) MR. SPEAKER : If any hon. Member m~sleadsthe House, vou have other course and other recourse to SHRl RAM NAlK (Mumbai North) : It seems that take. You can brmg a privilege motion. But 11 IS not the mike is working there ... (Interruptions) way to just come out and say you have mlsled the SHRl B.K. GADHVI (Banaskantha) : You are telling House. You can gwe proper notice that this m~keIS working and that mike is not working K~ndlyl~sten to hlm perfectly. Why are you standing up [Transla tron] and speaklng like this? SHRl SUKHBIR SlNGH BADAL , The people of Punjab have rejected them.. (Interruptrons) SHRl ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE : He is complain~ng... [English] (Interrupt~ons) MR. SPEAKER : That is not the way Mr Speaker, Sir. I wduld like to extend my special thanks to Sarvashri George Fe~nandesof the Samata [Translation] Party, Slrpotdarji of the Shiv Sena. Barnalaji of the Aka11 Please listen patiently. Please keep patience Dal and Jal Prakash ji of the Haryana Vikas Party who SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have supported my Motion. Those who have criticised shall feel highly obliged if the House listens to me with will get reply to their crit~cism However, I would patience after having witnessed so much uproar. I want especially like to mention Shr~Murasoh Maran. 75 Motion of Confidence MAY 28. 1996 Motion of Confidence

[English] Maharashtra is a different thing. But the fact remains that he caused a split in his party and cooperated with I have a spec~alword of gratitude for my dear fr~end us. But I did nothing of this sort. During the course of Shri Murasol~Maran (Interruptrons) Maran, l stand this debate a remark has been made repeatedly tht corrected. Despite our differences on certain issues, he personally Vajpayee is a good leader but his party is was generous enough to set the record straight on the not good. issue of horse tradlng by stating categorically that we did not use suit-cases to convert our minority into SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS . That is correct. majority. He has In fact demolished the baseless and SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Then what do you polltically motivated allegation levelled by some intend to do for a good Vajpayee? members I am also glad that Thiru Maran has taken note of our resolve to restore the balance of resources Mr. Speaker, Sir. I won't name anybody. I did not in favour of States. want to name even Sharad ji. If I am offered power wlth a new alllance at the cost of a split in my party, I would We have always held the oplnlon that the Centre be the last person even to remotely entertain such an cannot be strong if the States are weak Thiru Maran is idea. disturbed over our advocacy of one nation, one people, one culture I am happy that he shares our perception "Na bhito maranadasmi kewalam dusthito yash" of one nation. But I must say that he has got it all wrong Lord Rama has said that 'I do not fear death, if at all on our interpretat~onof one people and one culture. I I fear, I fear bad name, I fear public odium'. My political categorcally state here that the BJP d~a,not stand for career spanning 40 years has been as pen book. But un~form~tyWe recognlse the celebrated India's multi- when the electorate voted us as the single largest party, rel~gious,multi-lingual and multi-ethnic character. This should we have rerected their mandate? When the hon view IS best reflected in a poem by none but one of President Invited me to form the Government and told Ind~a'sgreatest Poets Subramaniam Bharati. That poem me that the oath of the council of Minster would tcke is entitled. "E Thaai" i.e , "My Mother" I would like to place the next day and the majority should be proved read it in Tam11 It says : by the 31st, should I have run away trom shouldermg the responsibility? When I in~tiatedthe discussion. I had "Muppadhu kod~magamudaiyal clarified this point also Isn't ~t a fact that we have Vyy~r rrmlmburam ondru~yal emerged as the single largest party? Now I shall come Lval cheppoumzhl pad ~nettudaiyal to the other arguments that are being given in this Enil S~ndhana~ondruda~yal" regard. On being invited to form the Government, should I have asked the Hon. President to give me some time SHRl N.V N. SOMU - Thank you, Sir, tor readmg out so thfit I may have consultations in the party? the poem In Tam11 When the President told me that the oath ceremony SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJFAYEE : This IS not tor the will take place the next day and I was given time upto flrst time. I had also read someth~ngIn Tam11 In my 31st Mav 96 to prove majority, I offered to make best Address in the Un~tedNat~ons use of the tune being given to me by talking to other parties In a bid to garner thew support and try to create [Translation] an atmosphere conducive to moving ahead on the basis Its Hindi translation IS I;!;,-this of a common programme. What is objectionable in it? "Tees kot~rr~ukhmandal wall hai meri maan, How does it Indicate our greed of power? Moreover the declsion to form the Government was not just mine, Ek ha1 usk~kaya aur atma rather it was that of the party. Bhashayen wah atharah bolti hai. K~ntuek ha1 uska chintan". Mr. Speaker, once the date i.e. 31st of May wrrs fixed for a trial of strength and it could take place only Mr SpeaKer Sir an allegation has been levelled on the floor of the House. We never subscribed to the aqalnst me that I have a lust for power and wharever view that this tr~alot strength should take place either I d~ddurmg the last 10 days was nothrng but lust for in Rashtrapati Bhawan or Raj Bhawan - ~t therefore power Th~sallegat~on has hurt me deep In my heart became necessary to summon the House and once the Just now I sad that 1 have been In Parhament for 40 House is summoned President's Address IS a Years The hon Members have seen my behav~ourand Constitutional obligation. We could have l~stedsome my conduct I had been In the Government w~thmy other busmoss too for the sittlng, at least we could have Wends Iri the Janata Dal I have never done anyth~ng moved a Motion of Thanks on the President's Address wrong In pursult of power Shr~Sharad Pawar IS slttlng but neither people on the Opposition benches permitted here He was not present In the House when Shrl nor L too insisted on it lest it should cre~teany doubts. Jaswant Smgh was speakmg He said In h~sspeech We looked for the earliest opportunity for the trial of that Shr~Pawar had caused spl~tIn h~sparty to form strength. Hence the Mot~onof Cor~fidencewas brought Government w~thour support Whether he formed the on 2;th May and today is 28 May and the matter will Government for the sake of power or for the good of be decided. We could have msisted that since we have 77 Mohon of Confidence JYAISTHA 7. 1918 (Sal:&)

been given tlme upto 31st May and we will remain in [Translation] power.... (Interruptions) Mr. Speaker. Sir, one should not SHRl MULAYAM SINGH YADAV Mr. Speaker. Sir. be hit below the belt or be put under cloud I nwer lney will preach us-about d~gn~ty. played this game not will ever play such a gav.e ~n SHRl ArAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE The manaate IS future. Democracy in a system tJra:: !hey are makmg agxnst the Congress The strength or the Congress In a count of percentage of votes we got Llnder the the House stands reduced to lust half ot 11s prevlous Westmmster model of parhamentary system, that our strenth here The people have glven thelr verd~ct country has adopted, number of votes or the percentage d~fterentlyIn d~fferentStates d~sregardmgwh~cn all other thereof which a party gels IS not ?aken Into account, partles are now unrtlng and enlrstrng Conqress support what counts is the number of seats that a party wins. and the latter w~ll~ngto extend 11s unqual~lredsuppoll Th~ssyslem cannot serve the twin objective I e to them I do not wan1 to reiterate what my fr~endMi percentage ut votes as well as number of seats Our George Fernandes sa~dyeslerdav The stand taken by country has not adonleu 1i.1~Llst System of tho the other partres seems to be that lrrespectlve of proportional Hr~r~resentat~onsyslcm I, for one, have whatever Invect~l~esthey mlqht haven hurled at each always been polntlng out thr detects of the Westm~nster other but now they shoula unlte ana let the BJP no' system In whlch at tlrries 11 IS qulte possible that a party form the Government If thrs IS your collectwe declslon gettlng lesser number of votes on an aggregate may then I woula not say anyth~ng Nonetheless such r, corner dlsproportronately larger number ot seats or the dec~s~onwould be negat~ve reactionary a~medat the Vice-versa IS also possible. In Kerala a coal~t~on sole purpose of stalhng us from corning to power anc Government has come to power wrth just one percent hardly ronduc~veto the health of demrzracy margin of votes, drslodgin the party in power. The I want to caut~onthem today On our part, we are difference In votes was of just one per cent but th~s ready to s~tIn the opposlt~on Mr Speaker Sir, when I d~fference which we are havlng presently has to be jorned pol~tlcsI never dreamt of becommg an M P I was recogn~sed.And now the total no of votes you are a lournal~st I am not keen on the type of polttlcs be~ng hav~ngare belng counted but 1 car1 mu:. ..! a count of practised today your own percentage of votes wnlch will be only to your 16.00 hrs disadvantage. They now say that they are unlting Are they uniting for the expllc~tpurpose of providmg a stable I do wish to renounce polltlcs. But politics ltself and respons~ble Government In the country3 I do not retuses to pan company with me want to repeat, they have not chalked out a programme Then I becam the leaaer of tne oppos~t~on,today ! so far and nor they nave approached the electorate am the Pr~meMlnlster and after some tlme I shall cease w~tha common proqrarnmc: The marldale recerved ana to be so I was not overloyea wnen I became the Pr~me the vote percentage obtained aboul whlch they are now M~nrsterana nor I shall nave any qualms when I dem~t talkmg, is for d~fferentStates and for d~vetgcntreasons. the off~ce however I would hke to ralse some Issues In Tam11 Nadu ~t was the Zonprer;~ that was flghllng Today a number ot fresh alleqat~onsare Delng agalnsr DMK and not our r~arty The same situation levellea agalnst us that we have nor lncludea CeRaln obtained in Andhra Pradesn where we were nowhere Important Issues In the President s Aadress The In the prcture. How can thev say tr~emandate IS against Pres~aent5 Address makes no mention of Ram Temple us when 11 was the congress that they were f~ght~ng Article 370 and onltorm Clvll Coae anu cr, much so that against and not us. What sort of a mandate 1s th~s?Say Swadesh~ slopsn has also been jettlsonea All thls IS explic~tlywhat you are murmuring Say o~enlythat you be~ngsala In a tonne as 11 tnev ar~verv m~rchaqgrlevec will not let us come to power at any cost It IS proper on account of our puttrng aslde these) wnereas to speak in such a ve.n The sprrit behmd thls speech these are tne people wno nave all alonq been ;rrtlclslng is even more deprecable A Doaf) i: ?E!I~ created In us tor these Issues Thev have been ho~d,nqus gullty this House that lndra 1s movlng toward a Hrtler type of because we lnteneu to construct 2a-r Temple and dictatorship and tasc~srnIS ra~sing11s head In the country wanted abragatlun of Art~cle 370 of the Constltut~on and ask us how we can keep the unltv of the country This sort of tear IS belnq create The persons who are Intact Even though 11 has been wr~ttenIn the xnstltutlorl debutants In this House and are aulte unaware of even and the Supreme Court has als~a vlndlcated 1, 1s the dign~tyof the hoi~se I am In Parl~arnentio: forty vlewpolnt that tnere snnuld be a bnltorn~CWII Lode nut years now We nave been rhl~th~~gas ;I party here on we canngt sav tie same', It one savs sb rhen one democratic lines and have beer\ contesting t'lect~ons WOLJ~~De Dranoea as subverter ot the unlty ot the collry SHRl MULAYAM SINGH YADAV We too have Deen I ue sa\ %a: these ssues are lor the part ot our present in the Assembly for twenty years proqramme ~~!evJG!~onsana De: ause we or, not have the malorlty ,/~:s'rupr~ons [Engl~sh] We ate t~ghtlnglor majorrty It the peopie s mandate MR SPEAKER Please have patience tc, Irster?. 1s not In vour lavour tney nave not fully accepted us 79 Motion of Contidence MAY 28, 1996 Motion of Confidence 8 0 either and with the mandate we have received now, we [English] are not in a position to implement all the Programmers. SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : It is because he is We wanted majority but we could not get. We have not pro-BJP, but he is anti-Congress. 'That is why, he is emerged as a single largest party and our endeavour with you ... (Interruptions) is to evolve a workable system through consensus and SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Then, why can you that is why we did not touch upon the disputed issues. not be with us? What objection do you have over it? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Then, are you pro- Now, United Front is being formed ...(lnterruptions) it Congress?...(Interruptions) is good if it has been formed but its programme is yet to be chalked out ...(Interruptions) if that has been done, SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE :You may aks your then have they assimilated the philosophy and the Members to behave. You are here for forty years and I programmes of the Marxist party in it, in totality. If they am here for 25 years. I am also entitled for have done so, then why the Marxist Party has been respect ...(lnterruptions) What the hon. Prime Minister is saying all the time is, he thinks, ~t is our solemn keeping a distance from the Government? When a to keep him in power. That is what we have United Front is formed, a number of parties come obligation been trying to find out from yesterday. If the majority of together... (Interruptions) the hon. Members are not supporting you, is it the fault When different political parties come together every of the other Members who are not supporting you? i party has to glve up some of its programmes. In 1977 have got my own perceptions, I have got my own also we were supporting the demand of abrogation of policies and programmes. He is all the time accusing, Article 370 of the constitution. Shri Ram Vilas Paswan, as if, we are entering into some combination. Does that who is present here, was with us at that time. In 1977 justify him to remain In power, withou having a majori!y? we were in favour of making Atom bomb also but when Is this what you are trying to say? we realised that democracy was in danger and there was a need to save it, we kept aside many of our party [Translation] programmes. Due to the imposition of Emergency, the SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : I have been entire country was turned into a ]all. We all dec~dedto listenmg to your criticism since yesterday and now you work together to stop the authoritarianism. At that time are not prepared to listen to a little bit of no one asked us as to why were we not pressmg for the criticism ...(Interruptions) Is it my fault if the voters have demand of abrogation of Art~cle370. In a way it was not given a clear majority to any party? We have been right. Now, you are forming a Uniied Front so each one given the chance as the single largest party because of you will have to forgo some of your party programme people wanted for a change. Is it also our fault ? The Hon. Pres~denthas given us time upto 31sl because he knew that we were not in majority. But the Hon. [Engl~sh] Pres~denlcalled us to form the Government because SHRl BASUDEB ACHARIA : W~thouthaving a we were the s~nglelargest party In the House. He gave majority? us time uplo 31st May so that we may talk to other MR. SPEAKER . Achariaji, please do not interrupt polit~calpart~es and make efforts to form a stable him. Government Such things are happening in other countries also. It was being done here. [Transla tion] SHRl BASUSEB ACHARIA . Then why did it not SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I happen? am not talking abaut West Bengal I have mentioned SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Because you did about it yersterday It is a different matter that their not allow it to happen. number of sects and percentage of votes have decreased this time.

[English] SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Why do you not SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : But it is the only consider the fact that you are totally isolated in the Government which has come back to power with two- country? third majority. Please do not forget that. It has come SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE . We are not isolated back to power for the fifth time. It is a record. SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Yes, you are MR. SPEAKER : It is okay, Mr. Somnath. Please let the Prime Minister speak. [Translation] SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE :You are saying that [Translation] no one is with us but if we say that the Akali Dal, which SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I won in the recent elections, is with us ...(lnterruptions) fail to understand that ...(lnterruptions) Mobon of Confidence JYAISTHA 7. 1918 (Saka) Motion of Confjdence 82

[English] [English] KUMARI MAMTA BNERJEE (Calcutta South) : I do How can you say all these? ...(Interruptions) not want to interrupt him, because the Prime Minister is MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Biju Patnaik, please sit down. speaking. But, I have some reservations about what Let the Pr~meMinister continue. Shri Somnath Chaterjee has said. (Interruptions) [Translation] [Translation] SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Sir, two parties SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE Mr Speaker Sw, fought the elections against each other ;r~d now when the t~mewh~ch was given to me to mob~l~semajorlty they joined hand with each other they are saying that support has been properly utlllsed by me I have had the mandate was against BJP and 82 per cent voters talks wrth d~fferentpol~t~cal part~es Some partles have voted in their favour. It is a peculiar loglc which is being come to.our support and some other parties expressed given here. thelr dlff~culties Some part~esare of the oplnlon that SHRl BlJU PATNAIK : There is a logic behind it they w~lllose some of the~rvotes 11 they support us I can understand 11 any pol~t~calparty IS worrled about ~ts SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE . You all have united. vote bank but how long and to what extent thls game It is a good thing. of vote bank w~llcontlnue'? W~llthey Ignore the nat~onal SHRI BlJU PATNAIK : Everything IS before you. Interest for the sake of vote bank? When we talk about mlnorlty and say that they should get full protect~on SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : It 1s not before us equal opportun~tles equal r~ghts people level charges . . . (Interrrupt~ons) agalnst us that we do not practlse what we say Such [English] matters can be d~scussedIn the House Our party Government In the States IS funct~on~ngac!.ord~ngly SHRl BlJU PATNAIK . May I ask Shri Vajpayoe one and 11 you glve us a chance In the Centre we can show question?...(lnterruptrons) you as to how all these thlngs are lmplernented I fall SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : They do not 1iste.n to understand that every pol~t~celparty IS talkmg about to you, Shri Biju. Why are you trying to help them? They the biggest mlnorlty commun~tybut no one IS bothered do not listen to you. about the S~khswho are just two percent of the populat~on Just now you have l~stenedto the agony of SHRl BlJU PATNAIK .What do you want? You wanted Shrl Barnala Nobody 1s bothered about them time till the 31st. But what is it that you propose? Mr Speaker Sir I remember those days when S~khs . . . (Interruptions) were bemg massacred In Delh~riots One of our BJP SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Have some workers came to me In the cover of darkness I could patience. ..(Interruptions) not recognlse hlm because he had cut h~sham short and had shaved off his beard I asked hlm as to what [Translation] he had done w~thhls ha~rand beard and why he had We held a large d~scuss~onon it. Earlier, you were come surrept~t~ouslyIn the cover of darkness? He told not in favour of any discuss~onon th~smotlon. But when me that he could not come to me In the day hght He a discussion was initiated, the hon Members took keen could not come out of h~shouse with h~slong halrs interest in it and we have had a good discussion in the That was why he had sacr~t~cedh~s ha~r He had come House. Now the time has come to take a decision on to narrate h~stale of woe to me At that tlme we it. Even then you are feelmg so perturbed You are so advocated the cause of S~khsThat was why we lost anxious to come to power so soon. elect~onsat that time and the Congress Party captured the power by exploltlng anti-S~kh sentiments of the I remember the day when you split the Janta Party people We d~dnot do that (Inrerruptrons) and took Choudhary Charan Singh to South Block and SHRl ILIYAS AZMl (Shahabad) : You a herere by stood in front of his chair ... (Interruptrons) flaring up aqti-Muslim feelings of the people ... [English] (Interruptions) SHRl BlJU PATNAIK :Let us set the record Stra~ght... SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE Thts IS worng (Interruptrons) ..(lnterrupt/ons) But you do not condemn the atroc~ties committed on Slkhs ...(Interruptronsl [Translation] SHRI ILIYAS AZMl . We do condemn I have burnt three letters In front of Choudhary Charan Smgh. It was done by none else than Biju [Englls h] Patnaik. I have not engineered any spl~tin Janta SHRl SOMNATH CHATTERJEE . Please look at the Party... (Interruptions) records ... (Interrupt~ons) Motion of Confidence MAY 28, 1996 Motion of Confidence 84

SHRl BASUDEB ACHARIA : We have raised this country, neither on the communal line nor on the caste issue a number of times ... (Inlerruptions) line. The politics should also not be divided into two camps which sans dialogue and discussion. Today, MR. SPEAKER : Please sit down. country is in crisis. Whenever needed, we helped the (Interruptions) Government to tide over the situation. Being the Leader of the Opposition, I was deputed by the then Prime [Translation] Minister, Shri Narasimha Rao to represent India in SHRl ILIYAS AZMl (SHAHABAD) : We have Geneva. Members of the Pakistani delegation were condemned the atrocities committed on Sikhs a number taken aback on my inclusion in the Indian delegation. of times. In that country the leader of Opposition is only interested in pulling down the Government. This has not been our SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : All the culprits have tradition and moreover it is quite contray to our nature. not been arrested. .. (Interruptions) I wish this tradition to continue. The Governments will SHRl MULAYAM SlNGH YADAV : Who was come and go but the nation will always remain there. responsible for putting Sikhs behind the bars uide'r The democracy of this country will live foreve. Has it not TADA ... (Interrupbons) 1 got them released from the Jail become a difficult task in the present atmosphere? This ...(Interruptions) discussion will conclude today but the chapter which is going to start from tomorrow requires some deliberation. SHRl MUKHTAR ANlS (Sitapur) : The BJP men The bitterness should not be allowed to grow. I do not looted the Sikhs in Lucknow in the guise of know the basis on which the United Front selected Shri Congressmen.. (Interruptions) Deve Gowda as its leader because he was not the first SHRl ILIYAS AZMl : I myserr witnessed dozens of choice of the United Front. He was their fourth choice. such persons belonging to the BJP and Congress Party Now he is going to become their first choice for the who were together in looting the sikhs ...(Interruptions) Prime Ministership ... (Interruptions) SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : It will be better for Mr. speaker, Sir:l regret that during the discussion my friend Shri Mulayam Singhji nct lo utter anything in the names of such organisations were mentioned here this regard. During his tenure as Chief hinister of UP which are independent and are engaged in the task of the women who were coming to Delhi for a rally in nation and character building. I am referring to RSS. support of their demand for Uttranchal were raped and One can have differences with the ideologies of RSS this fact has been substantiated even by the court. And but the kind of illegation levelled against RSS were not after that Shr~Mulayam Smgh ji has no face to say warranted. Even the Members of Congress and otl-qr anthlng ... (Interruptrons) parties respect and admire the constructive work being done by the RSS and they also lend their cooperation SHRl MULAYAM SlNGH YADAV . It is a matter ot for the same. If they go and work among the poor and shame ...(Interruptrons) Some girls were d~srobedin work for spread of education in tribal areas they should Kanpur. All these persons are sitt~ng here be felic~tatedfor their endeavour. All sort of cooperation ...(Interruptions) should be extended to them ... (Interruptrons) SHRl MUKHTAR ANiS : Mr. Prime Minister, why do SHRl INDRAJIT GUPTA . Who was Nathu Ram not you talk about the incident occured in Surat where Godse?. . .(Interruptions) BJP men disrobed the Muslim women? .. (Interruptrons) SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Shri Deve Gowda SHRl ILIYAS AZMl It IS Congress rule (Interrupt~ons) whom you are going to elect you leader df United Front Those women were dlsrobed rn Congress reglme is well acquainted with the merits of RSS and moreover (Interruptrons) he himself has pralsed RSS for its activities SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, all ...(Interruptions) these friends have been speaking tor the last two days SHRl BlJU PATNAIK : If it is so then Vajpayee ji, you ...(Interruptions) Now I have got a cha~~ceto speak should support him ...,Interruptions) ..(Interruptions) They want to shut my mouth but this will not happen. If they try to do so on the strangth of [English] numbers we will be forced to take this war of ~deologies MR. SPEAKER : Will you please sit down Mr. to the streets . (Interruptions) Patnaik? SHRl MULAYAM SlNGH YADAV : We are ready to (Interruptions) face ~t irrespective of the areas or the fields you like to MR. SPEAKER : Please Address the Chair take it ... (Interruptions) SHRI ATAL BlHAHl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker. Sir, I [Translation] would l~keto stress on the polnt which I mentioned in SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : I would like to the beginning. There should not be polarizatton in the submit to the-members of my party... (Interruptions) Motion of Confidence JYAISTHA 7, 1918 (Sake)

[E nglis h] [Translation] MR. SPEAKER : No, it is enough. SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN He is not here. Shri (Interruptions) Deve Gowda is not here to con!~adict it .(Interruptions)

[Translation] [English] SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : Why are you getting SHRl SRIKANTA JENA . Sir. I am on a plont of provoked by them. Let them speak what they want. The order. In the absence of any person In the House.. final hour has arrived Do not get provoked MR SPEAKER : Why do not you take out the Rule SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir. Book and read from it? Sir, My friends should know that I have also come here SHRl SRIKANTA JENA . I am ralslng a point of after getting elected. They should also know that being order under rule 376 ... (Interruptiorrs) the leader of the largest party I have been appointed as Prime Minister by the President of !ndia. It is at the [Translatron] directive of the President that I have come to seek the vote of confidence of the House MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING (SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARA.1) You Now, if discussion takes places and a senior leader may change your leader tonight (lnterr~~ptrons)You like Biju Patnaik, interrupt me...(Interrupbons) cannot listen to even the praise of your leaders [English] . . (Interr[~ptions)

MR SPEAKER . Mr. Patnaik, you do not have to [Englrsh] react to everything that is said. Ycu are one of the seniormost leaders in the country MR. SPEAKER . Justice Lodha I have given time to him I will come to you. [Translation] SHRl SRIKANTA JENA I just want to draw your SHRl ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE Mr Speaker, l was attention that any Member In the House has every r~ght saying that those who are patr~ots,rational In this country to quote any document provided (Interruptions) Just a and those who wish welfare of the country from the moment let me finish But without any document, without core of their heart and have come in contact with RSS, authent~cat~onand w~thoutyour prior permission and know that th~sorganisat~on 15 dedicated to the country too 11 a person IS absent nothing sl~ouldbe made for its well bemg and lust now (Interruptions] publlc about him because he has no right to reply in SHRl INDRAJlT GUPTA . And who was Nathu Ram this House, Sir (Interruptrons) Godse? What did he do In the interest of the country? MR. SPEAKER . Under what rule'

SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE . I will cite a recent SHRl SRIKANTA JENA He IS quotlng one instance I am not mentioning that after the Chineese document aggression, the voluntary organisations which were invited to participate in the Republic Day parade for MR SPEAKER : Under what rule ~OLIare ralslng showing sol~daritywith Pandit Nehru, RSS was one your point of order?

among them. Communists were not there Where were SHRl SRIKANTA JENA . Under rule 115 The they at that time ...(lnterruptions). Even during the time Member is misqottng and unnecessarily making of Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri, who was also a popular allegation against Mr. Deve Gowda and it is of no Prime Minister of the country, when we had a war with relevance. It is absolutely false and fabricated. He is Pakistan, educated people were needed to control the trying to malign Mr. Deva Gowda in a manner that he traffic in Delhi and ~t was again RSS volunteers who is trying to create confus~onamong the United Front. offered their services to control the traffic ... (Interruptions). That is his intention and the Prime Minister should not Recently a function was organised in Bangalore to . (lnterruptions) commemorate the struggle against the emergency, whlch was called the second struggle for freedom. Shri Deve SHRl PRAMOD MAHAJAN . It has appeared in a Gowda was also present there. I have with me the Southeren newspaper in Bangalore which authenticates excerpts of his speech, which he made on the occasion, the statement bf Mr Deva Gowda when he told about I am quoting it. RSS. "Nishkalankam Choritranam" I can give Kannada Prabha gnd the Indian Express and it is authenticated [English] . . (1nte.uuptronsJ RSS is a spotless organisati~n.In my first MR. SPEAKER : I will allow you one by one years ...(Interrupt~ons) ...(Interruptions) 87 Motion of Confidence MAY 28, 1996 Motion of Confidence 88

MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Ahamed, I will come to you. said about Shri Deve Gowda who is going to be their Have you got your ears? leader tomorrow, there is nothing wrong in it, it is in according with the rules ...(Interruptions) SHRl E. AHAMED : Yes, I am listening. MR. SPEAKER : Sit down. 1 had given him the [English] permission to speak first. SHRl E. AHAMED : Sir, I would like to refer to Kaul SHRI SRIKANTA JENA : I draw your attention to and Shakdhar. On page 817, it is stated that : rule 353. No allegation of a defamatory or incriminatory "As a rule, no allegation of a defamatory or nature shall be made by a member against any person incriminatory nature can be made by a unless the member has given adequate advance notice Member against any person unless the to the Speaker and also to the Minister concerned so Member has given previous intimation to the that the Minister may be able to make ...( Interruptions) Speaker and taken his permission..." not only Ministers but Members also ...(lnterruptions) Sir, on page 818 Kaul and Shakdhar has stated SHRlMATl SUSHMA SWARAJ : That is, if you \a 1nt about Rule Committee's observation. It is stated that : to allege anything against the Minister...( Interrr'. ). He IS reading irrelevant rules ...(Interruptrons) "While proposing this rule, the Rule Committee observed : [Transla tron] It was against the rules of parliamentary debate They do not know the rule and are reading the rule and decorum to maake defamatory statements or book. allegations of incriminatory nature ..."(Interruptions) SHRl SRIKANTA JENA : You read it. M.R. SPEAKER : No, no, please SHRlMATl SUSHMA SWARAJ : I need not read it, (Interruptions) I learnt it by hea rt... I have read it, I have already read it well before you read. I know it by heart. I can tell you [Transla tion] each and every word ...( Interruptions) SHRl BlJU PATNAIK : Have you heard anything? To whom Shri Deve Gowda has referred as "spotless [English] character". ..(lnterrupt~ons) SHRl SRIKANTA JENA : Sir, Rule 352 categorically SHRlMATl SUSHMA SWARAJ : RSS says : SHRl BlJU PATNAIK : Did he say that BJP was of "A Member while speaking shall not- spotless character? refer to any matter of fact on which a judicial SHRlMATl SUSHMA SWARAJ : No, no, they are decision is pending. talking about RSS. [make personal reference by way of making SHRl BlJU PATNAIK : You are not. He is not. He is an allegation imputing a motive to or not ..(Interruptions) quest~oningthe bone ftdes of any other Member of the House unless it by [English] imperatively necessary for the purpose of the debate being itself a matter in issue or MR. SPEAKER . One at a time please relevant thereto;]...( Interruptions) SHRl SATYA PAL JAlN (Chandigarh) . Slr, I will RAM NAlK : Sir, under Rule 353 it is very draw the attention of the House to Rule 349 (ii), which clear, it says. says : "No allegation 01 a defamatory or incriminatory "Whilst the House is sitting, a Member- nature shall be made by a Member against any person shall not interrupt any Member while unless the Member has given a notice ..." speaking by disorderly expression [Transla tron] or noises or in any other disorderly manner;"

MR. SPEAKER : sir; it IS neither an allegation nor The Leader of the House is speaking. Our Prime it is defamatory to the person for whom it has been Minister is quoting from the speeches of the tuture Prime attributed ... (Interruptrons). But what they have said about Minister. Why should they object to that? The rule says Guru Golwalkarji should be expunged from the record. that no Member will interrupt the Prime Minister while Golwalkar who is no more in this world whatever has he is speaking. Sir, I urge you to kindly enforce this rule been said about him by a sanior member like Shri rand ask them nor to interrupi and particularly not to lndrajit Gupta, who made and subscribed us oath should prevent the Leader of the House to make his point of certainly not form part of the record. But what has been view. He is only quoting his statement ... 8 9 Motion 01 Confidence JYAISTHA 7. 1918 (Sake) Motion of Confidence 90

[Translation] SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Not against the strangers ...(Interruptions) SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue merely is that RSS may be a reverned institution MR. SPEAKER . The question here is that the Prime for them and for R.S S. ...(lnterruptrons) Minister is quoting from the newspaper (Interruptions) [English] ' SHRl BASUDEB ACHAFIA , Sir, 11 has not been MR. SPEAKER : I have listened enough from your authenticated.. (lnterruptrons) side, please do not make noise like this. it is not very fair. MR. SPEAKER . Please listen to me. The Prrme Minister 1s quoting a statement from the newspaper (Interruptions) attribut~ngstatement of a particular individual who is MR. SPEAKER . Do you want the House to run? I not a Member of this House The authentclty of that have already listened to the views of two hon. Members attribut~onof a particular view 1s from a person who is from your s~de Let me hen to him If you want to not In a posltlon to confirm or deny on the floor ol the speak, I will allow you afterwards. Twenty Members House. Whether that attribut~onof a particular statement cannot stand up and speak like thls. by a person amounts to a allegat~onor not, is the question tc be dec~ded.I do not like to glve a final [Transla tron] verd~cton that but if the Frirne Minister can avoid it at SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN . The statement the moment, ~t will be better attributed to Deve Gowda JI IS wrong. Deve Gowdaji has denled this. As General Secretary of the par'y, I would like to say that whatever the Prime Minster has SHRl ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE I am sorry. Sir. W~ll stated about Shri Deve Gowda which has appeared in you allow. me? the newspapers, is not correct. R.S.S, is a communal [Translatron] organisat~onand Shr~Deve Gowda has no relation, What-so-ever, with this organisation. R.S.S. may be a Mr Speaker. Srr I am referrrng to a functton reverned institution for them, but, for us, R.S.S. is a organ~sedrn Bangalore Alongw~thother people, Shr~ communal organisation and R.S.S...( Interruptions) Deve Gowda was also present there That functron ha5 been organ~sed as a mark of protest agalnst [English] 'Emergency That funct~onwas held on 26 June. 1995 MR. SPEAKER : Order please Had the statement of Shrr Deve Gowda been m~squoted he would have denled ~t Had all the newspapers (Interruptions) pubhshed the wrong statement (lnterruptrons) Mr SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN Sir, he had not Speaker slr No body denled thls statement If Deve supported RSS. I can tell you that (Interruptions) Gowda had telt that h~sstatement was m~squotedthen SHRl B K. GADHAVI : Sir, kindly see rule 352(ii) of he could have contrad~ctedthe staternent But he never the Rules of Procedure and Condurt of Business in Lok d~dso (Interruptrons) Sabha. The tenor of the speech of the Prime Min~ster was casting on lmputatlon on Shri Deve Gowda, which [English] is not perm~ttedunder this rule. Therefore, Sir, you have SHRl SRIKANTA JENA : He has already to go to the tenor of his speech. Referr~ngto Shri Deve contradicted it the next day. It was in the Indian Express. Gowda's statement for RSs amounts to an imputation, The next day, he contradicted the statement. I stand by which is forbidden. that. The rule says DR MURLl MANOHAR JOSH1 . Thls statement has "Make personal reterence by way of makmg never been denied. It has never been contradicted It stands as it is. We have never seen any contradlct~on an allegat~on lmputlnn 3 motive .." We have the statement with us (Inrerruptrorrsi Sir, he was rmputlng a motive to Shr~Deve Gowda Theretore, ~t cannot go on (Interruptions) MR SPEAKER Mr Pr~rneMin~ster, ?he hon Member, Mr. Jena IS now on record SHRl SURESH KALMADI Srr, we want votlng (lnterruptrons) [Translatron] MR SPEAKER I thrnk 11 1s a very important polnt SHRl BHAGWAN SHANKAR RAW4T (Agra) When whlctr has been ralsed on the floor of the House On Shr~lndraj~t Gupta was readmg from a book nobody this part~cularIssue there had been a lot of debate on mterrupted h~m(Interrupt~ons J the floor of the House There were a number of occasions Unless ~t fulf~lsthe two crlterla of allegat~on [English] and detamatory, normally ~t 1s allowed SHRl PRAMOD MAHAJAN We have the aud~o (Interruptions) and video cassettes of that programme What is he 9 1 Motion of Confidence MAY 28. 1996 Motion of Confidence 92

saying/ I am ready to place it before the House What SHRl JASWANT SINGH : May I make it clear that is he talking? He is misleading the House. I have the the Prlme Minister is reading a document audio and video or cassettes ...(Interruptions). ...(Interruptions).

[Transla tion] MR. SPEAKER : Let the Law Minister speak first. KUMARI UMA BHARATI (Khajuraho) : Mr. Speaker, (Interruptions). .Sir upto 30th...(Interruptions) [Translation] MR. SPEAKER : Uma Ji, I understand, Please sitdown. SHRl GEORGE FERNANDES (Nalanda) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the members do bring newspapers in this [English] House and all sorts of issues under the sun are raised PROF. RITA VERMA : He has deliberately tried to here. Some members bring press clippings mlslead the House. He is deliberately misleading the ...(lnterruptions) ... What sort of drama has been going House ...(Interruptions!. on, I fail to understand. Mr. Speaker, sir, you yourself

MR. SPEAKER , Umaji, let us conduct the )' have been a member of this House tor the last so many (Interruptions) years ...(lnterruptions) ... the members to bring newspapers and they quote from the newspapers and MR. SPEAKER Your Mlnister is speaking they want to discuss these Issues durlncj the Zero Hour. (Interruptions) Is it not a regular feature. Now why such a fuss is being created? No body knows any rule ...(Interruptions). [Transla t~on] MR. SPEAKER : Let the Law Minister speak. [English] SHRl RAM JETHMALANI Do not usurp my right to [Engl~sh] speak ..(interruptions). SHRl RAM VlLAS PASWAN : We have already contradicted what the Prime Mlnister has said ... MR. SPEAKER . Even yesterday this issue was (Interruptions) We have already contradicted it. But if ralsed with regard to the speech of Mr. George the Prlme Minister wants to read, let him read Fernandes and slnce it was not defamatory and ....(lnterruptions). allegatory, I allowed him. I was only saying whether a particular sentence which was being attributed to a MR SPEAKER : All right. If the Prime Minister IS willing to authenticate the document, it is all right person who 1s not a Member, would amount to allegation or not. S'HRI JASWANT SlNGH : I want to say only one thlng If the Prime Minister wants to read a paper he (Interruptions) should be allowed. ..(Interruptions). MR. SPEAKER : Please listen. I am not sure about MR SPEAKER , A Member who quotes a particular this. Therefore, i allow the Prime Mtnister to continue. sentence (Interruptions) (In terruptrons) MR. SPEAKER : I have allowed the Prime Minister SHRl JASWANT SlNGH : Mr. Speaker, I do not wish to quote it. Mr. Prime Mtnister, you can quote now. to argue, but ..(Interruptions). MR SPEAKER : I modity my statement. If an hon [Transla tion] Member who IS quoting is willing to authenticate that SHRl SATYA DEV SlNGH (Balrampur) , Mr. Speaker, document, it can be quoted. Sir, whatever has been said about Shri THE MINISTER OF LAW, JUSTICE AND COMPANY Golwalkarji.. .(lnterruptrons). AFFAIRS (Shri Ram Jethmalani) : May I say something? ...(lnterruptibns). [English] MR. SPEAKER . No SHRl RAM JETHMALANI : He is reading this SHRl RAM JETHMALANI : Will you kindly hear me document as a matter of right, not as a matter of grace for two m1nutes7 from anybody. SHRl SURESH KALMADI : We do not want this to MR. SPEAKER : I have allowed him to quote. g,o on... (lnterruptions). How much time will you take, Mr. Prime Minister? SHRl SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : Shri Ram Vilas Paswan has already said that he had contradicted it. SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : I am not Even after that ~f the Prime Minister wants to quote, let responsible for these interruptions. I am sorry. I must him quote. have my say. 93 Motion of Confidence JYAISTHA 7. 1918 (Saka) Motion of Confidence 94

[Translation] 17.00 hro. I have not come here'by anybody's grace, no would Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to reply to one more I speak with anybody's grace. I did not make any point which came up during the course of d~scussion. reference to the RSS in the discussion but Comrade It has been said that the BJP did not recelve wide lndrajit Gupta did so. support from the people. It was said that we got support from the cow-belt. It is improper to refer this entire as SHRl INDRAJIT GUPTA : Yes, I did. cow-belt in the House. We won in Haryana. We recewed SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE . He has also support from Karnataka. It is correct that we are not that underlined the extent of our relations with RSS. Now strong in Kerala and Tamil Nadu. But we have our what views do people hold about the RSS. If persons organ~sationthere. We have also received a little less of Shri Deve Gowda's stature, hold the view then it than 10 per cent votes in West Bengal. If you talk of should be given due importance...( Interruptions). What votes, then talkof 10 per cent votes. In th~sHouse had happened till date? Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the indiv~dualMember constitute a party and he IS trylng to meantime it was said that it was wrong and at that Jime dislodge us by mobilising people agalnst us They have I made a submission that it was a function about 1977 every right to do so. Each of them has came alone from held on 26.6.95...( Interruptions). his constituency and got united here In Delhi. Why have they got united? Is it for the well being of the [English] country. If so, they are welcome We are also servlng MR. SPEAKER : Let the Prime Minister speak. You the nation in our own way. Are we not patr~otsand must have confidence in your Prime Minister. rendering selfless service to the country for carving a nitche for ourselves in polit~cs.We have been sincerely SHRl PRAMOD MAHAJAN , Mr. Speaker, Sir, with makmg efforts for the last 40 years to reach at this due respect to you, every time you say your Prime posit~onIt is not a sudden mandate It was not a ni~rcale Minister. We worked hard. We went to people, we have struggled MR. SPEAKER : Our Prime Minister Ours is a party whlch functions round the year Ours IS not like the partles which mushroom durmg the elect~ons SHRl PRAMOD MAHAJAN Prime Minister is prime Minister. You should not say your Prime Minister. Today we are unnecessarily be~ngput Iri an embarrassing posit~onjust because we could not get a MR. SPEAKER : Okay, 'Prime Minister' few more seats. We do admit that it 1s our weakness We should have got majority. The President gave us an /[~ra nsla tion] opportunity and we tr~edto ava~l~t of it IS another SHRl ATAL BlHARl VAJPAYEE : Mr Speaker, Sir, matter that we d~dnot succeed. But do not forget that what Shri Deve Gowda said about the RSS IS as follows: even than we are golng to sit In the House as a larsest party in the Oppos~tionand they have to run the House [English] with our cooperation l would like to assure them that "RSS is a spotless organisation In my forty we will extend our fullest cooperation to them In years long political life, not even once I conducting the business of the House But I do not criticised RSS" know what type of Government they would form On what programme it would be formed and how would ~t The Chief Minister said that he was telling this with be run. utmost responsibility. He said that he had no two opinions regarding RSS's active role during Emergency So far as Dalits are concerned out of the total of 77 Shri Gowda further said Scheduled Caste Members. 29 belong to BJP Wh~le f~vemembers from CPI(M), I from CPI 15 from the "People who were with Mrs. Gandhi durmg Congress Party and 7 trom Janata Dal belong to Emergency, who praised her, who Scheduled Castes. We have the maxlmum number appreciated Emergency, they are today with Sim~larly,there are as many as 11 Members belong~ng us and are enjoying power, but RSS IS the to Scheduled Tribes In the BJP out of the total of 41 only organisat~onwithout any black spot. Members Please don't say that we do not have popular others have wavered this way or that way. base. We do not have wide support trom people If they think that they can form the Government without us and [Translation] that Government will last. I do not see any such Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not saying all this for the sake possibility (Interrupttons) First of all. ~t will be diff~cult of criticising Shri Deve Gowda He has made a true for the Government to come Into be~ng.~t IS hardly evaluation of RSS for which I would like to commend possible that it will survive The quest~onis how for th~s him. But these people want that he should not be praised Government surrounded by internal squabbles IS golng like this in the House. It had been publ~shednot in any to benefit the country. For each and everythmg they single newspaper but in all the newspapers and as I have to approach the Congress party At present I had said that time nobody refuted his statement. cannot say but earlier there were some talks that the Matron of Confidence MAY 28. 1996 Motion of Confidence

Congress party has laid down certain condition. Then MR. SPEAKER : In view of the resignation there was a tale that a Cabinet coordinating Committee announced by the Prime Minister on the floor of the will be formed. They can also have coordination on the House, putting the Moth of Confidence to the vote of floor of the House. Without that the business of the the House becomes infractuous and also no other listed House cannot be conducted. It is very good that they business of the House for the day can be taken up. want to govern the country. Our good wishes are with I therefore, adjourn the House sine die. them. We shall continue to serve the country. We bow betore the numer~calstrength and we assure you that we will not rest until we achieve the national objective. 17.06 hrs. Mr Speaker. Sir, I am going to submit my resignation / The Lok Sabha then adjourned sine die. to the President ...(Interruptions) #'