: The Selma of the Deaf An interview with Fred Weiner

By Weston Henry

Februaiy 9, 2004 OH HEN Under the instruction of Alex Haight 2004

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8804 Postoak Road • Potomac, Maiyland 2085-t • (301) 983-5200 • Fax: (301) 983-4710 • liltp:/Avww.saes.oig TABLE OF CONTENTS

Statement of Purpose Page 3

Biography Page 4

Historical Contextualization "How the Revolution of the Deaf Occurred:

A Brief Overview of Deaf Histoiy" Page 6

Interview Transcription Page 23

Interview Analysis Page 49

Appendix Page 57

Works Consulted Page 61 Henry 3

Statement of Purpose

The purpose of this oral histoiy is to provide a more thorough understanding of the Deaf Piesident Now protest at through an interview with Fred

Weiner, who experienced many of the events of the Deaf President Now protest firsthand. This interview also seeks to provide a greater definition of the iinpact the Deaf

President Now Protest had on deaf and hard of hearing people both immediately after the

protest and in the present day, almost sixteen years after the seven days that forever changed the lives of deaf people. Henry 4

Biography

Fred Weiner was born in Brooklyn, New York in 1963. Both of Weiner's parents and his brother were deaf, so it is not surprising that Fred Weiner also is deaf Weiner attended James Madison High School in Fairfax, Virginia before enrolling at Gallaudet

University. Weiner was the coordinator of the alumni programs for the Gallaudet

University Alumni Association until September 1987. when he left to work for the

National Association for the Deaf (NAD), where he was the special assistant to the executive director.

Fred Weiner graduated from Gallaudet University in 1988. After graduating,

Weiner became very interested in campus politics. He was one of the six members of the

Deaf President Now (DPN) activist group known as the Ducks. Weiner claims that his main job prior to the protest was to secure local support for a deaf President at Gallaudet.

Weiner was one ofthe original members ofthe DPN committee. After the Deaf

President Now protest, Weiner continued to work for the NAD until 1990. That same year Weiner got ajob at AT&T in the field of relay services. In 1996, Fred Weiner was one of two AT&T managers selected to participate in an executive education program as a Brookings Congressional Fellow. Weiner was responsible for operating systems for

AT&T Learning Points, which helps schools gain access to technology.

Over the years, Weiner has written speeches, testimonies, bills, amendments, and position papers for both governnient and non-profit organizations. Weiner has been a critical lobbyist for the rights of the deaf and other disability groups. On May 10, 1999,

Weiner became the first Special Assistant to the President for Planning at Gallaudet, ajob Henry 5 that entails lobbying for the university, maintaining good public relations and strategic planning for the future of Gallaudet University. Fred Weiner currently lives in

Germantovvn, Maryland with his wife Lynn Weiner and their two daughters, Allison Joy

"AJ" and Bethany Weiner. Henry 6

How the Revolution ofthe Deaf Occurred: A Brief Overview of

For thousands of deaf Americans, the 1988 Deaf President Now protest that occurred at Gallaudet University was a watershed event, bringing with it the promise of greater civil rights and stronger cultural identity for a long misunderstood and shunted minority. Gallaudet University has served as a beacon of hope for the deaf since its inception in 1864. Despite resistance from mainstream educators, Gallaudet preserved

American (ASL) during a period of disfavor. It has prepared its students for positions of responsibility and leadership for more than one hundred years.

Nevertheless, at the time of the DPN protest, paternalistic administrators who viewed the deaf as disabled and in need of care ran the university (Sacks 0L02). The Deaf President

Now (DPN) protest served not only to put a deaf man at the helm of Gallaudet

University, but for tens of thousands of deaf Americans, it changed their view of what it was possible to achieve.

In 1988, when faced with the task of selecting a new president for the prominent university for the deaf and hard of hearing, Gallaudet's Board of Trustees ignored pleas for a deaf president and selecting a hearing woman. At that point, Gallaudet students and alumni insisted that it was time for a deaf president of the university. They issued a list of demands and shut down the university. It has been said that DPN was "The Selma of the Deaf" (Gannon, back cover). Just as civil rights activists marched on Selma to draw attention to their cause, the students of Gallaudet University marched onto the streets of

Washington D.C. to draw national attention to concerns of deaf Americans. Deaf activist asserted that they were not "handicapped" and in need of hearing caretakers but instead Henry 7 were part of a cultural group with a rich heritage. During the protest Allen Sussnian, a deaf professor of psychology at Gallaudet, explained the urgency ofthe situation: "The time has come for the plantation mentality, which has for so long controlled this institution and others serving the deaf, to end" (Sinclair and Pianin 3). Student leaders were supported by a close-knit group of alumni, who called themselves "the Ducks." The

Ducks played a vital role in funding, organizing and publicizing the protest. Their early ability to capture the nation's attention and to present persuasively the importance of deaf culture set the foundation for the successful protest. In the end, they were heard, and Dr.

I. King Jordan became the first deaf president of the most important school for the deaf in the world. This victory went far beyond a statement about the professional potential of deaf Americans; it was a victory for the deaf community's insistence on the value of deaf culture and American Sign Language.

Just as the black church served a central role in the African American civil rights movenient, Gallaudet University has been at the center of deaf culture and education for more than 100 years. pushed for funding to stait a college for deaf students during the Civil War. In 1864, as General Sherman embarked on his march to the sea. Congress passed the law authorizing a national college for the deaf-mute. As deaf historian Harlan Lane noted: "The president who unchained the slaves unlocked higher education for the deaf" (Lane 277). The schooFs first director, Edward Minor

Gallaudet, was the son of a deaf woman and the co-founder of the first residential school for the deaf in America, Rev. . Rev. Gallaudet had traveled to

Europe to look for educational opportunities for the deaf child of his friend, Dr. Mason

Cogswell. In France, Gallaudet met Laurent Clerc, a 30-year-old teacher at the Royal Henry 8

Institute for the Deaf in Paris. Clerc was "educated, industrious, socially skilled", attributes that he credited to an education achieved thiough sign language (Van Cleve and

Crouch, 37). At this point in American histoiy, deaf children had no access to education and for the pre-lingually deaf, no realistic expectation of acquiring language beyond rudimentary gestures. Gallaudet and Clerc returned to America, In 1817, they established the American Asylum at Hartford for the Education and Instruction of the Deaf and

Dumb (now the American School for the Deaf). This state-funded school was staunch in its belief that "the natural language of signs" must the foundation of all communication among the deaf and (Van Cleve and Crouch 45). According to the Hartford schools third annual report, without sign language "every attempt to teach the deaf and dumb would be utterly vain and fruitless." (qtd. Van Cleve and Crouch 45). The impact of Clerc's work at the Hartford school was profound. As one author explained, "The first emancipation of the deaf - their achievement of education and literacy, of self-respect and the respect of their fellows - was laigely inspired by the achievement and person of Laurent Clerc"

(Sacks 108). In the decades that followed, states across America followed Connecticut's lead and provided for state-supported and state-operated residential schools for deaf children (Van Cleve and Crouch 47). It was through these schools that Anierican Sign

Language spread. As Oliver Sacks, a neurologist who has studied deaf culture, explained: "Virtually all the teachers in these schools were educated at Hartford, and most had met the charismatic Clerc. They contributed their own indigenous signs and later spread an increasingly polished and generalized ASL in many parts ofthe countiy, and the standards and aspirations of the deaf continually rose" (Sacks 109). By the

1850s, it was clear that a school of higher education for the deaf was needed. Gallaudet's Henry 9 son, who was hearing but had learned sign as a native language from his deaf mother, was selected to lead the school. Initially, the school was named the Columbia Institution for the Instruction ofthe Deaf and the Dumb and the Blind but would later become

Gallaudet University.

After the Civil War, a new generation of reformists, funded by inventor

Alexander Graham Bell, sought to change the structure of in America.

Bell, whose mother was deaf, taught lip reading and speech to deaf people. He proposed banning ASL as an instructional method and instead focusing on teaching deaf students to speak. Bell also was a proponent ofthe eugenics movement. In his Memoir upon the

Formation ofa Deaf Variety ofthe Human Race, Bell warned that without drastic measures, there was a risk of creating a "defective race" of deaf people (Shapiro 94-95).

Bell urged the hearing society to take measures to prevent deaf people from marrying each other. (Van Cleve and Crouch 142). Bell warned that intermarriage among congenital deaf people might "result in the formation of a deaf variety of the human race"

(Van Cleves and Crouch 146). Bell insisted that the "production of a defective race of human beings would be a great calamity to the world" (Ibid). Bell also attacked the education system for the deaf that Gallaudet and Clerc had founded. Bell identified a number of conditions, "most of them related to the educational system - that accounted for the increasing propensity of deaf Americans to marry each other: (1) the residential schools; (2) associations and organizations of deaf people; (3) deaf newspapers f . .1 (4) instruction by the means of sign language" (qtd. Van Cleve and Crouch 146). Bell proposed isolating deaf people in order to force them to think and act like hearing people and thereby dramatically reducing the possibility of deaf intermarriage. Bell proposed Henry 10 three "preventive measures" that would avoid the formation of a "deaf variety" in the

United States. These preventive measures, which were the basis of the "oralism" philosophy, demanded that activist eliminate "residential schools, forbid sign language use in the education of deaf pupils, and prohibit deaf adults from being teachers of deaf children" (Van Cleve and Crouch 147). Despite the success of manualisin (using sign language to educate the deaf), a growing number of Americans heard Bell's ideas and sought to ban ASL. Despite almost universal objections to strict oralism by the deaf, opposition to sign language grew rapidly among the hearing population, both nationally and internationally, with disastrous results for the deaf In 1880, oralists including Bell, hosted the Milan Congress, which was convened to resolve the controversy between manualisin and oralism. As a result of the Milan Conference, oralists pointed to international support for their position. After the Milan Conference, deaf people went through a period that some have likened to the Dark Ages. Although Gallaudet

University and the Episcopal Church continued to provide havens for preservation of

ASL, the oralists had a very dramatic impact on deaf education. According to Sacks, the percentage of deaf teachers teaching deaf students in 1850 was about 50%. By the end of the centuiy it had dropped to 25% and by 1960 only 12% of people teaching the deaf were deaf themselves (Sacks 24-25). During this period of oralist domination, the idea that deaf people were unfit to make decisions about their own lives spread, and the stereotype of sign language as a primitive and impractical pseudo-language went virtually unchecked. As Sacks explained: "Thus the centuiy between Thomas Gallaudet's founding ofthe Anierican Asylum and Edward Gallaudet's death in 1917 saw the rise and fall, the legitimation and delegitimation, of Sign in America" (Sacks 111). Henry 11

As the manualists had predicted, the focus on lip-reading and speaking had a dramatic, negative impact on educational achievement, and far fewer deaf students were prepared for higher education than in the past. Deaf histonan Jerome Schein noted:

At the start of this centuiy, hearing and deaf students went on to college at

about the same rate, which proved the feasibility of Edward M.

Gallaudet's idealistic thinking. But within a few years, college admissions

for the general population rapidly accelerated, while those for the Deaf

population remained nearly constant. By 1950, the ratio climbed to over

8.5 to 1 - students in the general population attended college over 8 times

more often than deaf students. (iMaher 18)

At the same time, the quality of hearing teachers for the deaf was falling dramatically.

Not surprisingly, the prospects for the deaf were bleak after the oralists took control of their education. A turning point for the deaf came during the late 50's, when Gallaudet professor William C. Stokoe, presented evidence that ASL was far more than a series of crude gestures and pantomimes, but in fact a legitimate language (Maher 60). In doing so, Stokoe helped to strip the false pretension that the hearing world was linguistically superior. It is not surprising that Lou Fant, the famous actor/writer/interpreter, whose parents are deaf, noted:

Bill made the first crack in the dam that eventually erupted into the flood

that we call deaf empowerment. Without a legitimately recognized

language, there is no culture; without a culture, there is no self-identity;

without self-identity, you just go on trying to be what others demand you

be. Without the concept of deaf culture and the identity that goes with it. Henry 12

there would have been no Deaf Piesident Now. The chain of events that

led to the DPN protest had its first link forged by none other than Bill.

Not only can you safely connect Bill's work to the DPN protest...you

can't leave it out; it's sort ofthe culmination, the crowning achievement of

his work. It's what his work was all about. Bill didn't just discover a

language, he laid the foundation for most of what's happened to empower

deaf people and gain them the access they deserve. (Maher 2)

Although Stokes work has since been described as a "landmark," it received a hostile reception at Gallaudet. At the time that marked the beginning of the Deaf Pride movement, it was virtually ignored. Stoke recalled: "The entire Gallaudet College faculty rudely attacked me. linguistics, and the study of signing as a language" (Sacks 113). At this time, few deaf held faculty positions at Gallaudet and far fewer held positions of authority. As one faculty member explained:

However, this was 1956, and if you understand deaf education iu the

schools and at Gallaudet during that era and before, you will understand

that we were much like the Negro at that time; we felt 'lucky' to have our

Jobs as teachers of the deaf in state schools, more so at Gallaudet, and we

were all resigned to the fact that deaf education was controlled by the

'hearing world.' Call us 'Deaf Uncle Toms,' but you have to have been

there in that day and age in our shoes to understand. (Maher 49)

Despite the quality and originality of Stokoe's linguistic work, his message was largely ignored for years.

From 1969 to 1982, Gallaudet's president was Edward C. Merrill, who sought to Flenry 13 change the culture at Gallaudet by giving greater voice to deaf concerns. Merrill appointed a number of deaf people to important administrative positions at Gallaudet and during his tenure the Deafness-Related Concerns Council (DRCC) was formed to advise the president on the concerns of deaf faculty and staff members. That group, which was later, renamed the President's Council on Deafness (PCD). When he retired, Merrill urged the board to select a deaf president, but there was not organized push for a deaf president and no deaf candidates were among the three finalists (Christiansen and

Barnartt. xvii). Hearing educator Lloyd Johns, then a president ofa California university, was selected as Merrill's replacement in 1982. He resigned several months later, before his formal inauguration. Upon Johns' departure, the board opted for a temporaiy replacement rather than engage in a full-blown search for a new president. The board selected Jerry C. Lee, who was vice president of administration of business at Gallaudet.

Some faculty members believed his selection was the result of his popularity with Board

Chair Jane Bassett Spihnan. "We felt that Mrs. Spilman pulled a fast one to get her boy,

Jerry Lee, selected without really going through the process," said one influential member of Gallaudet's alumni association (Christiansen and Barnartt xviii). Several months later, the board announced that Lee's "temporary" position would be permanent.

On August 24, 1987, Jerry C. Lee announced he would retire effective January 1, 1988 to take ajob at the Basset Corporation, which was owned by Spilman's family (Christiansen and Barnartt 1). Immediately after his planned resignation was announced, some in the deaf community began a campaign to persuade the board to elect a deaf president.

Three weeks after Lee's announcement, an 11-member search committee was established. Some objected to the composition of this committee since the President's Henry 14

Council on Deafness was not represented and the faculty had only one representative.

Tensions ran high. As Sacks explained:

There was an unspoken tension between faculty and administration - a

faculty in which many ofthe teachers sign and some are deaf The faculty

could, to some extent, communicate with the students, enter their worlds,

their minds: but the administration f . .| formed a remote governing body,

running the school like a corporation, with a certain "benevolent' caretaker

attitude to the 'handicapped' deaf, but little real feeling for them as a

community, as a culture. It was feared by the students and teachers h . .1

that the administration, if it could, would reduce further the percentage of

deaf teachers at Gallaudet and further restrict the teachers' use of sign

there. (Sacks 102)

On October 19, 1987, the National Association ofthe Deaf (NAD) held a meeting to discuss how the group should approach the task of pressuring the Board of Trustees to appoint a deaf president. Many believed NAD's role should be limited to encouraging the board to select a deaf president. Others, however, believed they should take firm steps to guarantee a deaf president. This group decided to write to as many eligible deaf applicants as possible to encourage them to apply for the job. Secondly, they vowed to protest if no deaf candidates made it to the finals. Understanding the importance of the decision and the need for action were a group of six Gallaudet alumni. The six core members of this fringe group were Fred Weiner, James Tucker, Jeff Rosen, Steve Hilo,

Mike O'Donnell, and Paul Singleton. They started calling themselves "The Ducks" because O'Donnell said the group reminded him of a "close-knit family of birds" Henry 15

(Christiansen and Barnartt 10-12). By the end ofthe search, 67 people had applied, including four sitting university presidents. Nine ofthe candidates were deaf. The field was then narrowed down to six semi-finalists, of whom three were hearing and three were deaf But there were concerns among some Board members that a deaf president would be detrimental to the institution. Gallaudet Professors John B. Christiansen and

Sharon N. Barnartt have written about former President MeiTilFs concern that:

... a small but poweiful clique within the board, composed primarily of

board members who viewed deafness from a 'clinicaF point of view

('deaf people are broke, fix them'), or who had a strong business

orientation ('corporate mentality'), or both, had wanted to appoint a

president to succeed him (Lee) who would be 'tough' and who would

emphasize 'lean and mean' organizational structure (Christiansen and

Barnartt xix).

At the end ofthe search process, the field was narrowed to three: Dr. Elizabeth A.

Zinser, who had no experience with deaf people, and two deaf Gallaudet alumni, Dr.

Harvey J. Corson (Class of 1964) and Dr. 1. King Jordan (Class of 1970) and dean ofthe

Gallaudet University College of Arts and Sciences.

The Ducks then launched a public campaign for a deaf president by distributing a flyer, which stated:

It's time. In 1842 a Roman Catholic became president of the university of

Notre Dame. In 1875, a women become president of Wellesley College,

in 1886, a Jew became president of Yeshiva University. In 1929, a Black

person became president of Howard University. And in 1988, the Henry 16

Gallaudet University presidency belongs to a DEAF person. (Christiansen

and Barnartt 21)

The Ducks then organized a March 1 rally, attended by about 1,000 students (Gannon

22). The students demanded a deaf president and marched from the football stadium to a statue of . Two Washington, D.C. area deaf businessmen and

Gallaudet alumni, David Birnbaum and John Yeh, paid to have thousands of yellow and blue Deaf Piesident Now buttons made, which were handed out to protesters.

Businessmen Birnbaum and Yeh objected the university's refusal to do business with niembers ofthe deaf community and shared a belief that change was needed at Gallaudet

(Gannon 20). Burnhani distributed information to all members of Congress and contacted the media (Gannon 22). Congressman Bob Dole was one ofthe first to respond. He wrote:

Deaf individuals are moving into positions of public notice and public

responsibility and becoming role models for deaf students who can see

and admire them and dream. Isn't it time for the university to once again

lead the way instead of following it and place a deaf individual in a

position of public responsibility. (Gannon 22)

Washington Post Columnist William Raspberty also was an early supporter of the protest. He wrote:

. . . the students are right in their insistence that if Gallaudet is as good as

it claims to be, then it should, in 124 years, have produced a graduate

capable of running the place. And if it hasn't, then the obvious lesson is

that deaf people, even university-trained deaf people, are not quite equal to Henry 17

others. (Gannon 54)

The rally was a turning point for the student body, which up to that point had been largely indifferent to the debate. "Prior to the rally most Gallaudet students had been indifferent to the presidential outcome and had paid scant attention to what was going on.

Few had given any thought to how the final selection would influence their lives."

(Gannon 23). But the battle was far from over. As DPN protester, deaf historian and

Gallaudet alumni Jack Gannon recalled:

The rally succeeded and it failed. It made believers out of many and made

many students realize, perhaps for the first time, that there were qualified

deaf leaders ready and eager to take the helm of their university. It failed,

however, to make a dent in the thinking of many of the decision makers.

(Gannon 20)

During the next few days, students pitched tents in front of Edward Miner Gallaudet administration building and invited local television reporters to campus to film the protest. Some activists gave speeches recommending more disruptive means of protest such as throwing rocks and locking doors, but ultimately these people were subdued.

Several Ducks said they feared they would not be able to control the crowd.

On Thursday, hundreds of students walked out onto Florida Avenue and stayed there undl dispersed by the police at midnight. On Saturday, about one hundred people participated in a candlelight vigil organized by The Ducks. The vigil took place near the

Kendal School apartments, were several members ofthe Board of Trustees were staying over the weekend. According to some board niembers, the vigil may have hurt the protest since the participation was so small that it made opposition to a hearing candidate Hemy 18 seem smaller than it actually was (Christiansen and Barnartt 44).

On Sunday, the Board of Trustees announced Gallaudet's next president would be

Elizabeth Zinser. The vote was 10 to 4; all of the deaf members of the board voted for

King Jordan, as did Laurel Galls, a hearing member. Duck member Singleton told students who had gathered to hear the announcement that they had to do something, although he did not specify what exactly should be done. Gary Olsen, president of NAD, recommended the angry students inarch to Mayflower Hotel, where board members were meeting and demand an explanation. It was a spontaneous march, one conducted without a permit and without an organized means to communicate with police. But the police made not attempt to disperse the group or arrest anyone. At the Mayflower, representatives are allowed to speak with Spilman and other board members. Spilman reportedly said: "Deaf people are not able to function in a hearing world." However, debate continues to this day as to whether she was misquoted (Christiansen and Barnartt

55). The next day, protesters drove cars to Gallaudet entrances and deflated tires to block people from entering and leaving campus. The protesters then presented Spilman and the board with four demands:

1. Zinser's resignation and the selection ofa deaf president;

2. Spilman's resignation from the board;

3. An increase in deaf representation on the board to 51 percent;

4. No reprisals against the protesters.

After a four hour meeting, the board rejected the demands. As Spilman was about to announce the board's decision, deaf faculty member Harvey Goldstein walked on stage in front of her. He signed to the audience that the demands had not been met and that Henry 19 staying was futile, and recommended everyone leave the auditorium. Most did Just that.

The protesters then march to the Capitol to hear more speeches.

On Tuesday, the students boycotted classes and the faculty held meeting on what to do. The alumni house became the headquarters for the Deaf President Now Council.

The nexl day, Zinser arrived in D.C. and Jordan announced at press conference that he endorsed her selection (Christiansen and Barnartt 136). Zinser announced that she was going to "take charge" of the campus and warned: "if it gets any further out of control,

I'm going to have to take action to bring it under control" (Sacks 104). At the same time, the faculty and staff announced their complete support of protest. Congressmen David

Bonior and Steve Gunderson, both meniber of the Board of Trustees, urged Zinser to resign. Congressman Bonior publicly supported the protest. That night Duck activist

Steve HIibok, joined Zinser and deaf actress Marlee Matlins in a discussion ofthe protest on Nightline. That broadcast was the first to be captioned.

By Thursday, deaf students from other schools began to arrive in busloads. The

American Postal Workers Union, which had 4,000 hearing impaired members, gave a

$5,000 check in support of protest. Dr. I. King Jordan begins to understand the protest as a civil rights movement and retracts his support of Zinser and announces that he supported all four of the protesters demands. In the fact of so much opposition, Zinser announced her resignation. The next day, students begin wearing buttons reading: 3 1/2

(because 3 1/2 of there demands had been met at that point) but the protesters still did not have a deaf president. Although spring break began, students stayed on campus to continue the protest. Another march on the Capitol was staged, this time with a permit.

On Sunday, after seven days of protest, the board agreed to all four demands and Henry 20

Dr. I King Jordan was named new president of Gallaudet. Phil Bravin became first deaf chairman of Board of Trustees and Spilman resigned. Finally, the protesters were able to wear buttons that read; "We did it!"

Almost all historians writing about the Deaf President Now protest seem to have a positive, optimistic view of the event. Both liberals and conservatives tend to be sympathetic to the students. One thing that almost no two historians can agree on is whether or not Jane Spihnan said "deaf people cannot function in a hearing world." And what she did say if these were not the words that came out of her mouth. Another discrepancy between historians is how harsh they are in their treatnient of Zinser and

Spilman.

The Deaf President Now protest was an unqualified success. The protesters meet all their goals for the university. For the first time, the American public was able to see deaf concerns as part of a larger struggle for civil rights. As Gallaudet student R. G.

Gentry noted in a column published by the Washington Post, that while having a positive deaf role model was important, that,

... a second far uglier symbol is at issue here. Many of us have

experienced the disappointment of being turned down for a job or

promotion because we were told the communication barriers were too

great, or we lacked sufficient training in specific areas, excuses the Board

has traditionally used to deny us a deaf president . . . Democracies are

often not smoothly functioning systems. Ideas and beliefs evolve before

the system is ready. Many whites were not ready for the Biovvu vs. Board

of Education ruling and the wave of desegregation that followed, but Henry 21

blacks were ready. Male-dominated hierarchies were not ready for the

consequences of feminist movement, but women were ready. The hearing-

dominated hierarchy of deaf education is not ready for us to assume

control, but we are ready. (Gentry 2)

The Deaf President Now protest not only changed the nations view of the deaf; it has also had an important impact on the disability rights movement. Disabled people around the world empathized with the protesters and there revolt against the paternalistic views of those who did not understand them. DPN prompted many to re-evaluate their views on disability and discrimination. As a result of this shift in popular attitude, just two months after DPN, the Americans with Disabilities Act was introduced and "for a law with such sweep and so many potential enemies. (ADA) took a rocket course toward passage" (Shapiro 75). ADA requires federal, state and local as well as private assistance

"in remedying the problems relating to access by persons with disabilities to public facilities, employment, and transportation services" (Tucker 6). But, as Joseph P.

Shapiro stated in his book No Pity: People Whh Disabilities Forging a New Civil Rights

Movenient:

Yet there was great irony in the fact that it should be Gallaudet students

who would succeed in equation disability with civil rights: to them,

deafness is not a disability but a culture - like being Jewish, Irish, or

Navajo. Some deaf people make this distinction by spelling deaf with a

capital D when referring to cultural deafness, and with a small d when

talking about an auditory condition deaf people argue that they share their

own complex language, American Sign Language, as well as a cultural Henry 22

and a group historp.isability is a medical condition, argued the

Gallaudet student leaders. (85)

It should be noted, however, that while many deaf people object to the disability label, the deaf community for the most part sees ADA in a positive light because ofthe rights it extends to them, despite the stigma ofthe disability label.

Through Deaf President Now, the students, alumni and faculty of Gallaudet showed the world that they were ready to assume full control of their lives. But is this more than a symbolic victory? Clearly, it has changed the hearts and minds ofthe deaf and those who work closely with them. Most Americans may have forgotten the DPN protest, but it offers important lessons that suggest further study. Historians have not closely examined the impact ofthe protest, which this year had its 25"' anniversary. But it suggests important questions. To what extent has it resulted in institutional changes nationwide? Little has been written about the protest's impact on residential schools, teaching using ASL in classrooms both in residential schools and at Gallaudet. Has there been an increase in the number of students applying for college? And have the alumni seen lasting change in terms of their lives? These are important questions that should be explored. Henry 23

Interview transcription

Interviewee: Fred Weiner

Interviewer: Weston Henry

Date: January 5, 2004

Location; Gallaudet University, Washington, DC

This interview was revicAved and edited by Weston Henry

Weston Henry: This is Weston Henry and I'm interviewing Mr. Fred Weiner as part of the Anierican Century Oral History Project. This interview took place on Monday,

Januaiy 5'\ 2004 at Gallaudet University.

(Question omitted from tape. WH; What was it like growing up in the pre-DPN days?)

Fred Weiner: How much time do you have?

WH: About two hours.

FW: Oh, OK, plenty of time. Well, that is a multi-generational question for me. You see I come from a deaf family. And 1 also have two deaf children. So my answer will be really thiough the eyes of my parents, my children and myself My parents did not go to college even though they are both very bright individuals. My father was a printer and my mother stayed home; she did some part-time work. They wanted to make sure that their children; my brother and myself- my brother is also deaf - went to college. And in Henry 24 many ways, prior to DPN, 1 think the biggest barrier, more than anything else, really was attitude. Not just the attitude ofpeople looking at deaf people but how deaf people thought about themselves; which, in the large part, was due to how they were treated by people who were not deaf There were many limitations: job opportunities - there weren't many - communications limitations - this was before the Intemet, before computers, before captioning on TV. So the deaf community back then was very insular.

There were Deaf clubs. That was the time when Deaf people got to see each other either at night after work or on weekends. And I think back, then, a lot of Deaf people were concerned if they had deaf children because they didn't see a bright future for their deaf kids. With my generation, it's night and day. For the first half of my life, although I am hard of hearing, you know, 1 saw how my parents struggled. And 1 myself, for example, did not ever think we would ever have a deaf president at Gallaudet University. I never thought about deaf people becoming doctors or lawyers. In fact, the real money was made in printing. A lot of deaf people went into printing, became union members, you know blue-collar workers. You made more money printing than you did as a teacher. I mean going to museums, not understanding what was being said. All the little things in life: TV, movies. Now, when 1 look at my kids they can talk to anybody any time they want. My older girl is not sure if she wants to be: a doctor, lawyer, or astronaut. It's her choice right? My younger girl wants to play in the WNBA. But there's no limit in their minds about what the future holds for them. So again, it goes back to my parents' times, the box was very small. And with my children, there is no box. So that's probably the largest difference between pre-DPN and post-DPN. Flenry 25

WH: I know that you went to James Madison high school and then you went to

Gallaudet University.

FW: What was this google.com?

WH: Yeah, I do research. I wasjust wondering what it was like shifting between educational philosophies?

FW: iVly education background is an example of the attitude perceive by people in deaf education or looking at deaf education. My parents went to a deaf school or a hearing school in a deaf school and they did not want me going to a deaf school. So 1 went to, I wouldn't even call it a mainstream program back then. This was before PL 94-142' or

IDEA". So I grew up in an environment with no interpreters. I would be sitting in the front of the classroom tiying to figure out what was being said and a lot of my education came from my parents. So did I have a good education? I was lucky to have good parents more than school itself So my first exposure to deaf education was here at Gallaudet

University. That being said, I think really today education for deaf people in general is much better than it was in the past. I mean Gallaudet's entering class; every year we see an improvement in student reading and writing ability. For example, about ten to twelve

' PI 94-142, the Education for All Handicapped Children Act (EAHCA) was enacted in 1975 to address the failure ofthe state education system to meet the educational needs of children with disabilities (Tucker 330). ^ The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act was enacted in 1990 and currently refers to the majority of laws relating to the educational rights of disabled children, inchiding access to public education. It requires early and unbiased evaluation of hearing loss in school-age children, unbiased evaluation of deaf children using a variety of communication methods, including sign language. Henry 26 years ago, and this was after DPN by the way, but a lot of these student went to school before DPN, only about one-third ofthe incoming class did not take developmental

English. So in other words, only about one-third took freshmen English or better. And this year, it's the other way around. Two-thirds of student we get go right into freshmen

English. So, I think that's a reflection on the state of education. For one part, more access to communication but also when I say more access to communication it's not just in the classroom but in general, through TV, the web, so today's students are more culturally literate. I mean you have deaf students who talk about the latest music groups.

I mean you wouldn't see that kind of conversation back then. Having said that, there's still a long way to go in improving the education of deaf and hard of hearing children in this country. In a lot of schools, well before 1 go on, I remember reading somewhere that about half of the deaf and hard of hearing students in this country are the only deaf or hard of hearing child in their school. So you have to wonder about the kind of access that they are getting. Do they have qualified interpreters? Do they have people in the school who understand their needs? Where you're likely to see good education for deaf and hard of hearing students is where you have enough students, 1 think, to ensure that there's adequate services and support for these students. So the real challenge is finding those who are, +. Who are alone. Who for the most part, probably have difficulty communicating with their classmates and learning what's happening in the classroom.

So, we are still behind in that respect. 1 mean among different groups of disabled students, deaf and hard of hearing students continue to have one of the lowest reading and writing scores and math scores. So it's a mixed bag. Henry 27

WH; You said in one of your NAD"^ (National Association ofthe Deaf) broadcasters: "In

fact, the deeper we got into this, the more fixated we became on the idea that placing a

Deaf person in the President's office would somehow right all our wrongs." What exactly

did you mean by this?

FW: Oh yeah, it was the symbolism more than anything. Which article was that?

WH: Um, I don't remember exactly. I'm sure I have it in here somewhere.

FW: I've written a few articles.

WH: Yeah, 1 know (searches research folder). Actually, 1 think it was in a book that I have.''

FW: Ok. Well, let's back track a bit. That comment has many dimensions to it really.

And I think and I'm tiying to remember where and when I wrote it. But, what I think, we

saw happening was when the idea of putting a deaf President in this office here, the

Presidents office here at Gallaudet came up, there was so much resistance to it, not just

by hearing people but by deaf people, who were oppressing themselves. So the more we

pushed the idea, 1 think some of us just became so obsessed with making it happen. And

^The National Association for the Deaf, founded in 1880, is the oldest national organization for a disability group and is the most poweiful deaf group in the world. Through lobbying, activism, and the publishing of their own periodical, the NAD has been a monumental force in uniting and educating def people while at the same time protecting there rights both as individuals and as niembers of a disabled minority group. "* I found the article online at the NAD's website. Henry 28 we were fighting so hard to make it happen that ultimately the idea of failing, in that, became more or less personal failures, we became so linked to the idea, that having somebody there would change everything. In many ways, it has. And again, because of the symbolism ofthe office, it just shattered so many myths when Dr, Jordan was appointed President of Gallaudet University. In many ways, Dr. Jordan has helped. He has been a wondeiful spokesperson for the deaf community. He is well respected among many people but especially those who matter, you know people on the Hill, the press.

And when he goes out and gets financial support for this university, he is meeting with very, more or less, very poweiful people who have the ability to influence change. And that's one side of King I don't think many people get to see and appreciate. So in many ways, the positive changes that we've seen. I think we need to recognize his positive involvement in that. 1 can't help but think what would happen if we had the wrong person there. It probably would have done much more harm than good in the final analysis.

WH: Um...

FW: now what else are you finding out about me?? (Both laugh)

WH; Plenty... getting back to that...

FW: Sure. Henry 29

WH: Actually, I'm kind of regretting that I forget the guy's name, but lof the three finalist] there was Zinser and there was Jordan and what was the third guys name...

FW: Harvey Corson?

WH: Yes. I've found a lot about peoples feeling on Jordan and I guess this is

understandable because he ultimately became piesident. What was the feeling on Corson at the time?

FW: Well, yet again, it's a simple question that requires a long and multi-dimensional answer. But let's step back to the DPN movement itself As soon as the DPN committee was formed, there were six finalists at that time; three deaf and three hearing. One of the hearing candidates, obviously being Zinser, and the two, Jordan and Corson. And then you had Dr. Davila who later became vice president of NT1D\ At that time, the committee agreed that we would support all three |deafl candidates and 1 think that was a very important thing to do because it prevented the fracturing or fragmentation of support for a deaf president because once you get into a discussion on who you support you loose

the focus on the real meaning behind DPN. Now, within the deaf community, obviously

there are different views as to what is deafness or what is a deaf person. And to some, the view of Dr. Jordan is that he is not deaf enough. And Harvey Corson, he comes from

a deaf family. He worked at a deaf school. 1 think to some extent, that view may still be

held by some people today. But 1 think that lini today's time and environment that

National Technical Institute for the Deaf Henry 30 people are more sophisticated. I think they've come to appreciate that although Dr.

Jordan became deaf at 21. ultimately he is a deaf person. He can't hear. He experiences the same kind of barriers that other deaf people face. Back then you would definitely hear more of, well, "King's not really deaf enough." And I, honesdy 1 still hear that today to some extent. But 1 think those people who say that don't really understand deafness or they have a very narrow view of what deafness is about.

WH: Um ok. How did the Ducks form?

FW: Depends who you ask.

WH: Yeah, actually...

FW; Well actually, you'll find this funny. But the reason why we formed the Ducks, not how, but the reason why, if you look at the names of the Ducks, five of the six of us were

married young and our wives formed a club to get together every month, do stuff,

whether it was crafts or going somewhere. So I think it was Jamie Tucker, myself, and

Mike O' Donnell sat down and discussed this, said well, if they get together every month,

why don't we get together every month? That's the real reason that we did it. So it

wasn't born out of political motivation or desire to see some wrongs righted so to speak.

And our first gathering was at a bowling alley and it was at that bowling alley - which I

was not present at by the way ~ that we started talking about the fact that IJerry 1 Lee had Henry 31 resigned and now was a good time to push for a deaf president. So one thing lead to another.

WH: Who came up with this flyer'^?

FW: Mike O'Donnell.

WH: Mike O'Donnell.

WH: A lot of the stuff I've read about the March F'march, a week before the protest, says that a majority of the students didn't really know about the march beforehand. But a lot of people attended that march anyway.

FW: The rally?

WH: Yeah, the rally.

FW: Yeah. March F', a lot of students were not aware. In fact, 1 spoke to a sociology class recently. Graduate class. And somebody asked my about my days as a student. 1 told them I didn't even know whom the Provost or the Vice President of Academic

Affairs was back then. You know, I wasjust content being a student showing up for class. That was enough. So really, it was a turning point and you are right, a lot of

See Appendix 1 Henry 32 students, in the beginning, were not aware. The key, in the beginning, was to have the

Ducks bring in the student leaders. And it wasn't just the four - there were others. The four were the most active, the most involved. was the last to jump in, so 1 think it was through that effort working with the SBG, talking with students - we were young enough at the time. All of us were still in our 20's, we were recent graduates, and so we were still intermingling with students. Some ofthe students who were then juniors and seniors were freshmen when we were juniors and seniors. And 1 think once we talked with them, they became more aware of what was going on. Many of them didn't realize for example that ofthe 21 members ofthe board of trustees, only three of them were deaf. Or it may have been four^.

WH: Four.

FW: Well, it wasn't enough. Let me put it that way. (Weston laughs). So they were just shocked when they found out, well, there werejust four. And the more they started to talk, the more they started to believe and I think they tapped into this inner feeling of being oppressed for all this time and let it all out. So yeah, the rally and I don't know if you've read this, but initially, we, the Ducks, and some of the other people involved in the planning, had asked to use the field house. Of course, the date, I think, was March P' so the weather was unpredictable. We were hoping we could use the field house and

^ Four of the members of the board of trustees were deaf Wiener's uncertainty is understandable though because Harvey Corsen, who was a board member at the time, was not allowed to vote on the next president due to the conflict of interest, so only three deaf people voted on the president. This violated campus bylaws, since prior to DPN, there were supposed to be at least four deaf members on the board at all times. (Barnartt and Christiansen 59). Henry 33 could hold it indoors in case of bad weather. And of course Gallaudet, the administration said no. 1 mean looking back, of course, why would they let us use the field house. So we had to use the football field. But we lucked out. It was a beautiful day. And all of us were really shocked to see the tremendous turnout. It was one thousand or two thousand people, I'd say. It was huge! I've never seen that many deaf people together, except maybe homecoming. But it wasjust so many people. And it was there that I think, we looked at each other and said, "You support this too?" So everyone just came out and said, "Yes, we support a deaf President." So yeah, the rally was really, I think, the turning point of popular opinion.

WH: Did any of the responses to Gary Olsen's letters surprise you?

FW: Which letter?

WH: 1 know he sent a lot of letters to various politicians and other leaders. I was just wondering if any of them surprised you?

FW; Well, it's funny. Before you came, 1 wasjust digging up some DPN stuff in a box that I hadn't looked at for 15 years. And some of it was letters from Gary Olsen. I was surprised we got some positive responses, some calls from the Hill. Before the protest there were only a few legislatures who responded but those who did responded favorably.

I was surprised that they responded at all, I thought they would hedge their bets more or less being politicians. One that that really struck me was that a few days before the Henry 34 protest started, the headquarters of the protest was 'Ole Jim' (a building on campus).

Someone had posted an ABC news poll that showed that 87 ofthe people that were polled supported a Deaf President Now niovement. And if you had asked deaf people before the protest, they probably would have thought it was the other way around. Then and there, 1 think we realized that when we thought about hearing people and their opinions on deaf people, our view of their views was created by the hearing people that we worked with or dealt with. But when we found people who had no stake in the matter said of couise, common sense, it's a deaf university. You want a deaf leader, sure. That really opened our eyes. Anyway.

WH: Was there any point where you disagreed with the protesters?

FW: (Pauses) Hmm. Only at the point where I think it was the second or third night of the protest, maybe the second night of the protest - must be the second night because, if I reniember, the first couple of nights the headquarters were the SBG office and this happened in the SBG office. We were sitting in a room and it was getting late. We were getting all these different kinds of information coniing in. You know, something is happening there (points one way). Something's happening there (points a different direction). The press was calling. And we were like, "My God, this is real." "You've got the world watching". And that went beyond our wildest dreams. And, of course, I think all of us were a little scared. What if we screw this up? It will be so embarrassing.

What if we fail? And then we heard about this unplanned rally or unplanned student meeting at the old gym - well the not Ole Jim - but there was an old gym here called Henry 35

Hughes Gym. It was being held by one or two ofthe student leaders, out ofthe blue.

And it wasn't part ofthe groups' discussion. And apparently, what had happened was that the board had made contact with one of the faculty members, who brought it to these students. And apparently the board was trying to work backdoor and bypass the whole group and work with one or two students. (Makes ooh sound) It was veiy...there was a lot of pressure. And I'm not going to name names here but I remember walking up to one of them, grabbing their clipboard. It was a really sturdy clipboard and I just threw it at the wall (gestures throwing clipboard) and I don't usually loose my temper. But 1 just lost it. And I was saying, "How the hell did you do this? Do you know what your doing?

It's not about you. This is about all of us." And there were others there too, so they went up. They changed the tone and came back. So it wasn't all the protestors but it was certain leaders in the group who, let's be fair they thought they were helping. They were young. They wanted to help solve the crisis and they were approached by a well- respected person, ok. And at that point, I think it became clear to the group that no decision could be made outside the group. But eveiything else that happened during the protest, 1 can't think of a moment when I disagreed with what the protesters did and that includes burning Zinser in effigy. Someone had asked me about that, said "Don't you think that's terrible." And 1 said, "Well it wasn't necessarily the right thing to do or good thing to do." But in hindsight, I think that you can figure all the possible damage that could have been done, on campus property damage or there, I mean, there were so many things that could have gone wrong-and if burning Zinser in effigy was the most horrendous thing that happened during a week-long protest of 1000 or 2000 students, I'm very happy with it. Henry 36

WH: You talked earlier about the four student leaders. What was your response to the media's focusing on these four individuals out ofthe whole protest?

FW: I think we were too busy to really think about that. Honestly, our goal was to, well,

my goal anyway, was to do my job. If you look at the first couple of days of the protest, if you look at the media prior to the protest. The pictures the interviews in the news a lot of it was around the Ducks. Then the shift. And I can tell you exactly when that shift happened: it was the day well, the day that the fire alarm went off**, Zinser [was announced the new president of Gallaudetl and we all walked to the White House and

when we came back to Ole Jim. I'll have to get my timing, my bearings together, but we

went back and then we had all these reporters there. And they started talking to people that were at Ole Jim, talking with them and say, "Are you a student?" "No." "Ok." Well

they went up to someone else and said "Are you a student?" "No." "Where are the

students? This is a student protest right?" Well of course the student leaders were with the students. And we were here, so (gives 1 second signal) "We'll be right back." And

we brought in the four student leaders and they did a tremendous job. If you're thinking

these are four young college students who have the spotlight on them. Greg HIibok so

really I think everybody played the role or filled the role they were supposed to fill at the

right time. There was a time for the Ducks and then there was a time for the students and

there was a time for King.

March 7 1988. Henry 37

WH: How about all the comparisons to 60's protests. I know that there was a huge push during the middle and end ofthe protest to compare this to earlier protests.

FW: Yeah, in fact, I remember going to a lecture by a reporter actually a few years ago who said Gallaudet is the only university he knows of which prominently displays It's student protesters on campus. In many ways, the protest was similar to [those of 1 the

60's in that it was a civil rights protest. Where we had the advantage was, one we had the entire communities support. We had the faculty, the staff, and the outside world. Student protestors set everything up then. I mean honesdy, there the issues they addressed were much more complicated. It was about race, it was about Vietnain; you couldn't get everyone to agree on that. But this was such a simple issue; just pick a deaf person.

What's wrong with you people? What's wrong with you board members? So the issue was very simple, that's one. Secondly, were talking about the 60's. Now those repoiters that came on campus were children ofthe 60's. Some of them probably part ofa failed protest at their colleges back in the 60's. And here, they saw a wondeiful opportunity, in my opinion, to make it happen the right way this time. And you read the press, it's very favorable. You saw very few negative comments in the press about the protest. I mean,

I'm sure reporters saw some things that were not necessarily appropriate or could have reflected badly on us and they decided to keep that out ofthe news. I reniember watching an afternoon news program where Spilman the chair ofthe board, had a news conference.

Someone asked her, "Why don't you sign?" And she said, "I'm really too busy and I really don't have time to leam to sign." The very next clip, you had a student and his dog and the student said (gives big sign for "sit") "sit" and the dog sat. He said (gives big Henry 38 sign for "roll over) "roll over" and the dog rolled over. I mean what better PR can you get than that? So yes, it was like the 60's in some ways, but we had so many advantages to the protest that students in the 60's didn't have.

WH: What was your response to the cartoons about Ronald Reagan during the protest?^

FW: (Speaking at same time) and the Deaf President right?

WH; Comparing him to the deaf (Weiner ends). Yeah. What was your response upon reading these? Do you...

FW: Well, 1 thought it was funny. Me, personally, honestly I, and I haven't heard from other people what their opinions where about that. I can tell you one thing right before the protest hit, that was on a Sunday, I was in New York for the weekend, for a friends

30''' birthday party and I brought a DPN button that said Deaf President Now and after the

party, we went to a restaurant and this one guy came up and he read it, and he said

"What's wrong with you? The President's already deaf?" And he walked away. (Both laugh)

WH: What do you think DPN achieved?

See Appendix 2, 3. Henry 39

FW: (rubs his right eye, ponders). Well, I think it just raised, I mean bottom line, and it just raised the standard of living for deaf and hard of hearing people. 1 already talked about that to some extent.

WH: Yeah.

FW: Senator Tom Harkiii himself has said publicly that DPN helped push ADA'°. So

DPN, then, if you look at it, also has helped raise the standard of living for, or made lives better for, people with disabilities. Now DPN, for people who are not disabled but who have become aware of disability and deaf issues, I think they become more understanding and more sensitive to issues regarding disability. There's less ofa paternalistic view.

Now people who are deaf or disabled are equal, they just have some physical abilities they cannot peiform in the same way a typical person cannot perform certain things. I mean we can't all be Michael Jordan right? (Weston laughs) So that's one way of looking at it. On a personal level, I think for those who were involved in DPN, it taught them that they can do anything and achieve it. As long as they put their mind to it. I think the challenge is: what's after DPN? You have, we still have a ripple effect but I think not enough is being done now to educate especially our deaf and hard of hearing children about Deaf President Now, and what it meant, what it still means. My own two children

(pointing to his head and talking in a different tone), you know, well you know, Dad was in DPN and he did something and (gestures out). I never talked about it. And we just had our 15"' anniversaiy last Februaiy or March. Then, I went home and I started to explain

10 The Americans with Disabilities Act. Henry 40 what really happened. Wow, that's incredible! And why'd it have to be me, and why'd it have to take 15 years for me? Well, they are 12 and 10, but you get the idea. So, we need to do more with the lessons of DPN, get it out not just to deaf people, 1 think, but make it part of cultural memoiy. I think because this is so unique: What are the lessons of this?

What does it mean? I think it would make, well, really an entertaining dialogue to the classroom but 1 think it would add meaning to any classroom.

WH: DPN was front-page news for a week but most people I've talked to now don't seem to remember it. And in fact, most people don't even know what Gallaudet

University is. What do you attribute this to?

FW: Well, let me preface this by saying that awareness is much higher than it's ever been. By that I mean, in Washington, it use to be when 1 was a Gallaudet student, 1 use to say, "1 go to Gallaudet." (Changes tone) "You say Georgetown?" 1 say, "no, Gallaudet."

"Where's Gallaudet?" So at least in Washington, people are aware of Gallaudet. There are more people today who are familiar with sign language than there ever was, more people aware about deafness. 1 mean, when I think about how my parents were treated when they went to stores. Just a simple encounter with the clerk, they would be ignored.

Or you know I mean, the clerk was - they were the customers — but the clerk would act like he was doing them a favor by talking to them. To the point: today when I go shopping, my wife goes shopping (with) my kids and people come up to me, "You are deaf?" "Sure." And they try to communicate, and they see us, you know. Just as someone who is deaf Someone who has money to spend. You know, you're a customer. They Henry 41 want to be nice to us. So from that perspective, things have changed a lot. But you have to understand that deafness is a low incident population. I mean your figures say 10 percent of people in this countiy have a hearing loss but if we are talking about people who are really deaf, um.

WH: (While gesturing (not signing) .01) .01. I think it is. right?

FW: Yeah, more or less. I mean I've always thought that the true deaf number is 1 in

1000, so you are right .01 or .001. But my feeling is when you are involving, when you are looking at the entire deaf community, meaning those who are deaf, those who have some hearing loss, people who are working in the field of deafness, probably closer to

500,000 to 700,000 is my guess. It's very small. That in itself, I think, is the reason why many people are not as familiar with deafness to the extent you would think they would be. Now going back to DPN, for a while after the protest, oh yeah people would be like,

"Whoa!" You know, you would have strangers come up to deaf people on the street,

"Congratulations!" But you know the wall quote so that's why I go back to what I said earlier. I think it should be part ofthe history books. If nothing more than a lesson about a successful movement or a successful effort in the civil rights movement so to speak.

WH: Actually, our histoiy teacher asked us to ask this to you. If you had to put DPN into a high school textbook what should be said about the event? Henry 42

FW: Hmm. Well, 1 don't know if today's textbooks talk about disability as a part ofthe civil rights movement. And there are deaf people who will say we are not disabled in the sense that deafness, in many ways, is more ofa cultural condition. So having said that,

I'm not going to try to figure out where you would put it in the history book but 1 will say that it was a movement that affected the lives of virtually all deaf and hard of hearing people for the better. It was an example of how the desire of many overcame the oppression ofthe few. And that's always been a worldwide issue. 1 think that I've given lectures on this in the classroom, and I don't think enough has been done on this. But no one has reaiiy studied why it was so successful. I think it was so many little things. It was the weather. It was March I. Sometimes you get 20 inches of snow on March F' but you had 60-degree weather all week. Everyone was united with a common goal. So those are iniportant lessons Itliatl 1 think people should be paying attention to.

WH: How has DPN affected the debate between oralists, manualists, total comunicationalists, and other branches of educational philosophy for the deaf?

FW: I think it empowered what you would call manualisin, though, I mean, there's always going to be disagreement as you yourself wrote. I read your papers too. But I think the bigger battle is not necessarily the communication methodology. I think in communication we've reached the point where there is, I don't know what is the right word, I wouldn't say a comfortable, maybe a grudgingly comfortable, arrangement among those who sign and those who don't. I think the bigger issue now is technology and what it can do. You're talking about cochlear implants, you're talking about Henry 43 legislation such as IDEA, you're talking about the trend towards mainstreaming and laway from | institutionalization of students. So the idea of sending your children away for months at a time to a school, all the way across the state, I mean parents don't want to do that any more. So there is that struggle between being at home with the family and being with your peers. Let me give you an example, well going back to cochlear implants. If you asked me last year what I thought of it, I would say I don't really know how well it would work for deaf people. Maybe it works well for some children, maybe not for others. Just last month, I was in a meeting and in this meeting, before the meeting started, there was a woman who Fve known all my life. She's from New York like me, and deaf totally deaf And 1 hadn't seen her in years; a few year now, and she got up and spoke to the hotel person about opening the drapes or something. And I had my hearing aid on, so I heard her voice. I had never heard her speak before. I think she's now 45 or

46. And later I learned, later, she had an implant the year before. Not only that, but she could understand speech very well without reading lips, even better than 1 could. I was just stunned and the irony is that since she grew up in a deaf family and could sign. She had, I think, her cognitive abilities were developed to the point where, when she started hearing for the first time, she was able to translate sound into language. Now, if she didn't sign when she was growing up, if she didn't have that ability, she probably still wouldn't be able to understand what she was hearing. So the irony is, here is sign language or access to language helping someone, who is almost 50, who is hearing sounds for the first time, understand the sounds that she hears. And I wasjust

(?shocked?). It made me think a lot about what's the technology out there. If you look at Henry 44 her, she is completely deaf Oh that old Mrs. Faison, she says ... Oh, I mean how do you define such a person? I'm really going off on a tangent I know but anyway.

WH: What was your response when ADA was released?

FW: You mean when it passed?

WH: Yeah.

FW: I thought it was great especially for relay services. It's very positive. The irony is it creates more of a challenge for Gallaudet University because there is greater access to other colleges and universities now. The sort of best deaf and hard of hearing students, well not just the best and brightest, but just about any deaf person can go just about anywhere now with few exceptions, provided they meet the admission standards. 1 mean, the inindset ADA created, a mindset out there about providing appropriate access for people with disabilities, and you're talking about people in wheelchairs or people who are deaf or blind. So yeah, it is very positive.

WH: Do you think that ADA has complicated the idea of deaf as not being disabled but as being a cultural minority?

FW: Oh, no question about it. But I don't think you can ever make it simple no matter what you do. I mean I just now find this woman who has an implant who is completely or Henry 45 was completely deaf, still is completely Deaf I think. There needs to be a distinction between the two, you know deafness as a disability, and deafness as a cultural condition.

And 1 think that anyone who tries to draw the line and deny that deafness is a disability is being to simplistic because first of all, I don't think there is a line. It isjust a fuzzy grey area and you have to deal with that.

WH: Moving back, what would you say your goals were for the deaf immediately after the protest?

FW: Well, first the goal was to get a good night sleep. And catch up on some rest. That was the immediate goal. But after that, I think (pauses), better employment standards, education standards. I think many of us expected to see change happen overnight. I mean the euphoria of what happened at DPN: you know you can shut down the university and get all these things to happen in a week, surely you can change all these other things in a few months. The challenge is we don't really have enough demographic data. I mean the census doesn't categorize people as deaf, so we don't have the statistics to help us understand if deaf peoples lives are improving in the areas of economic empowerment.

But I think more or less, it was better jobs, better education, and better opportunities.

WH: Um .. .

FW: Well, it's also more deaf supers or superintendents, forgot about that. And at first we saw a huge influx of deaf people becoining superintendents. And there were some Henry 46 positives and negatives. The positive was, great, we have more deaf supers. The negative was that, I think in some cases, some schools chose a deaf person who may not have been necessarily qualified for the job for fear of being branded oppressors themselves. Now, we are seeing a reducing number of deaf superintendents out there and its concerned

Gallaudet to set up training programs or leadership training programs for people who want to become future administrators. I think part ofthe problem, nice problem, is that many of those who are deaf, who are well qualified to become superintendents, are instead going to other fields, whereas in the past maybe the only opportunity was in a deaf school. So it is kind ofa mixed blessing.

WH: I've got to pause for a second because lof] my camera. I've got to reload the film.

FW: Sure. lEND OF TAPE 1, BEGIN TAPE 2]

WH: Prior to the DPN protest, there was like six to eight months of preparation just to get a Deaf President into office. Then you had one week where it sort of all happened.

How do you think the suddenness of all this and all the media attention affected the civil right movement of deaf people after the protest?

FW: It was a paradigm shift. I mean you're talking about six to eight months. It's more of an education process. I mean the protest itself was spontaneous. I mean if any one tells you we planned to shut down the university, that didn't happen. It was, I think, a Henry 47 combination of eveiything that built up to that point. The six to eight months prior, the important people like Gary Olsen and Jack Levesque from California, Barbara Wood out in Massachusetts, they were, you know, respected leaders in the deaf community, and they went out and said it was important to have a Deaf President. So that added to an era of legitimacy to the idea of having a Deaf President especially among deaf leaders. I mean, they were going to listen to young deaf people running around saying you need a

Deaf Piesident Now. So that was one step in the process. But more or less, it was really just an education process - day in and day out - and convincing people who up until the protest would have disagreed or did disagree with the idea of having a Deaf President, saying: "There's nobody who's qualified" or "We would fail". Then, after the protest, I mean the mind set just changed overnight, and where in the past, for example, my parents would be embarrassed to say, well you know, this is the way deaf people do this or well this is deaf culture. In the aftermath, they were proud. You know, "I'm deaf I have my rights too." So it wasjust an amazing shift in the way people thought about themselves and about deafness. And going back to children, I think being born after DPN, they see that from day one. In fact, I have to tell you this story. I did a lot of traveling for a while when my kids were young. And on one of my trips, 1 went to Missouri, Independence,

Missouri. I went to the Truman Library and I got these refrigerator magnets; Presidential seal and then my children's name - Alison and Beth or Bethany. And I got home. AJ was four at the time, Alison, Bethany was two. So I gave them the magnets. Of course,

Bethany (gives interested/ curious look). AJ looks at it. "Do you know what that is?"

"That's the Presidential seal." "Do you know what that means? It means you can become

President ofthe United States." "I can't." I think, my God, she is four and she is already Henry 48 thinking she's deaf; she can't become President. 1 said, "Why can't you become

President?" She said, "I'm a girl. There has never been a women President ofthe United

States."

WH: Moving ahead, at DPN's 5"' year anniversary there was a push to cancel classes on

Friday. (FW: umhum) What was your response to this?

FW: Actually, I wasn't here. 1 was in New Jersey but what your are really asking is about university policy or the view ofthe university. And I think there is a struggle in this university between supporting something like that and remaining true to the ideals of being an academic institution. So to be able to shut down classes for that day in some ways sounds very self-serving.

[Tape stops, most likely battery died] Henry 49

Interview Analysis

The primary value of oral histoiy is that it allows one to "see" an historical event through the eyes of those who were there and lived through that period. These interviews often reveal information not easily gathered through more conventional means, which may have been overlooked at the time but now seems important and relevant. Oral histories can be particularly valuable when they provide glimpses ofthe views of less than famous people or when studying a topic not well known to the public. The subject of this oral histoiy is Fred Weiner, an organizer of the 1988 Deaf President Now (DPN) protest at Gallaudet University, one ofthe most remarkable civil rights protests of all time. DPN was a worthy topic for this project because DPN was a remarkably successful protest, resulting in deep and lasting changes for a small minority of the population. Its organizers and participants were predominantly deaf people who for the most part spoke through interpreters during the event, and as a result, histories tend to include statements made at the time but do not ask about the aftermath of DPN. Also, the deaf form a low- incidence population, so most hearing people rarely encounters deaf individuals. As a result, the experiences ofthe deaf are particularly susceptible to being lost unless they are transcribed. The event had a lasting impact on disability rights and recognition of deaf culture. But the disability rights moveinent tends to focus on "inclusion" and

"mainstreaming," terms that in the past have been used to undermine deaf culture and to avoid instruction through American Sign Language. An oral history is only as good as the interviewer and the subject makes it. If the interviewer is not prepared, the resulting transcription may not reveal much. If the interviewee's memory is shoddy, the infomiation obtained is not likely to be accurate. Nevertheless, with a good interviewee, Henry 50 good questions, good research, and just a pinch of good luck, the oral historian can discover valuable and insightful historical information. It can be magic. Such was the case with the interview with Fred Weiner. His recollections of the Deaf President Now protest provide a valuable look at the impact of the event on deaf members of his parent's generation, his contemporaries and their children, as well as an insightful view ofthe disability rights movement in general.

Fred Weiner was a founding meniber of the Ducks, the Gallaudet alumni group credited with providing the critical push and support for the Deaf President Now protest.

Today, he is the Special Assistant to the President for Planning at Gallaudet. Fred Weiner began the interview with the assertion that DPN was a watershed event that marked a dramatic change in attitude among the deaf He said that the lives of deaf people that grew up befoie and after the protest are drastically different as a result of DPN. Prior to

DPN, Weiner explained, most deaf people tended to absorb the negative perceptions they encountered among hearing people. Werner said he saw his deaf parents literally transformed by the event. After the protest, the deaf felt empowered and proud of their long and unique histoiy. And his children, both of whom are deaf, do not see deafness as a handicap, Weiner said. Weiner told an amusing story that revealed his daughters belief that her ultimate professional achievement may be more hampered by her gender than deafness. Because the impact of DPN was so profound, both on the attitudes of the hearing world toward the deaf, and the perceptions of the deaf, Weiner believes that study ofthe event holds iniportant historical lessons.

Making a mark on history, having a Deaf President at Gallaudet, these were goals the Ducks developed in response to events, not the original purpose of the group, Weiner Henry 51 said. Although some books recounting the DPN protest claim the Ducks formed about nine months prior to the protest to force Gallaudet board of trustees to select a deaf president (see Christiansen and Barnartt 11-12), Weiner says that was not the case. In fact, he said the Ducks, six alumni of Gallaudet, initially were a sort of "spouses club."

Weiner recalled that the wives of the Ducks had decided to have monthly "girls only" sessions. As a result, their husbands decided they should get together as well. They decided to meet at a bowling alley. According to Weiner, it was only after the group discussed former Gallaudet President Jerry Lee's resignation and the need for a Deaf

President that the Ducks became a political group.

Although DPN often is described as a "student protest," Weiner explained that most students at Gallaudet were not aware of the significance ofthe board's upcoming decision at the beginning of the protest. Like most students, Gallaudet students were more focused on their education than on campus politics. Prior to the protest, the main job of the Ducks was to inform students and leaders about university politics, Weiner said. They presented the issues involved in the selecdon ofa deaf president to both students and people outside the university. They woiked "behind the scenes" to encourage both deaf students and influential legislators to speak out in favor of a deaf president for the university. Gary Olsen, then president ofthe National Association for the Deaf (NAD), assisted their efforts by sending letters seeking support to influential members of Congress. Weiner recalled his surprise at the number of politicians who responded positively to the Olsen's letters. But the Ducks received a great deal of resistance from the administration, which did not want the students to become agitated about the issue of who would be president ofthe university. University administrators Henry 52 denied the Ducks permission to hold an indoor rally on March 1. The Ducks responded by holding a rally on the campus green. It drew thousands, which shocked the organizers, and marked a turning point in campus attitude about the issue.

The Ducks then merged with several other groups to form DPN. The Board tried to split the DPN organization by getting a well-respected member of the deaf community to get one or more of the student leaders to organize a rally without the consent of DPN.

This infuriated Weiner. But after eveiyone calmed down, it became clear to all that unity would be necessaiy to reach their goal. It was decided that no decisions would be made without DPN's approval. Weiner explains that this was the only point in the protest at which he disagreed with some of the protesters, While authors Christiansen and Barnartt do mention a rally at Hughes Gym attended by some students, that occurred while the

Ducks and other met in a nearby office to discuss strategy, histoiy books do not mention this aspect of the rally or explore its potential damage to the movement. It is possible that historians have not known about the possible protest offshoot or have chosen not to publish information about it.

The protest was non-violent and extremely successful. Weiner said that even the protest's most controversial actions - the burning in effigy of initially selected Piesident

Elizabeth Zinser and the closing ofthe university - harmed no one and did not destroy anything. Werner expressed his admiration for Dr. Jordan, citing his ability to influence poweiful people. Weiner then discussed the view held by some that Dr. Jordan was not

"deaf enough" to run the university and the view that Harvey Corsen, the other deaf finalist who has been deaf his whole life, should have won. Weiner does not agree with either of these views. Henry 53

Weiner then explained that while the DPN protest was similar to many of the protests of the 60's; it did have two major distinctions. One was that the entire community supported the DPN protest, in part because the issue was much simpler than many of the issues of the 60's. like race and war. The other was that many of the reporters who covered the DPN protest had participated in student protests and therefore were more sympathetic to the DPN protesters than the mainstream media had been to the protests ofthe I960's. One thing that Weiner did not mention in the interview that differentiated the DPN protest with many of the protests ofthe 60's was that DPN, unlike many ofthe protests ofthe 60's, did not hire professional protest organizers.

DPN has had a dramatic impact on the lives of deaf Americans. However, this impact is difficult to quantify because, as Weiner said, "the census doesn't categorize people as deaf. So we don't have the statistics to help us understand if deaf people's lives are improving in the areas of economic empowerment." The two major areas impacted by the protest were deaf education and employment. Weiner explained that non-deaf school prior to important legislation like IDEA (the Individuals with Disabilities

Education Act) (formerly the Education of the Handicapped act and to a lesser extent the

Education for All Handicapped Children Act), were not effective in educating deaf students. Nevertheless, both the employment and educational opportunities for the deaf have increased dramatically since DPN, Weiner said. Prior to DPN, many deaf people went into the field of printing. Weiner credits IDEA with forcing schools to make the necessary accommodations to enable Deaf children to learn in the classroom. Weiner noted, "about ten to twelve years ago, f . .1 only about one-third ofthe incoming class took developmental English. And this year, it's the other way around. Two-thirds of Henry 54 students we get go right into freshmen English" (Henry 26). iNevertheless, Weiner stresses that even though deaf education has made great strides, in part thanks to greater access to communication both inside and outside the classroom, there is still a lot of room for improvement. For example, Weiner worries that "about half of the deaf and hard of hearing students in his country are the only deaf or hard of hearing child in their school.

So you have to wonder about the kind of access that they are getting. Do they have qualified interpreters? Do they have people in the school who understand their needs?"(Heniy27).

DPN provided the critical impetus necessary for passage of ADA. Weiner noted t

Senator Tom Harkin public statement that DPN was a major factor in getting ADA Ithe

Americans with Disabilities Actl passed. As a result of DPN and ADA, attitudes have changed, Weiner explained: "people who are not disabled [. . .J (have) become more understanding and more sensitive to issues regarding disability" (Henry 39). Now, he said, "people who are deaf or disabled are equal, they just have some physical abilities they cannot perform in the same way (just) as a typical person cannot peiform certain things. 1 mean we can't all be Michael Jordan, right?" (Ibid) It is interesting to note that

"Dateline NBC" correspondent and writer on disability rights John Hockenberry made a similar statement ("Not eveiyone can be Michael Jordan") during the DPN: The Pulse of the People teleconference.

Weiner discussed in detail the major issues facing the deaf today. One of the issues Weiner hit on was the question of what to do with the lessons learned from DPN.

As Weiner said, "I think the challenge is: what's after DPN? You have, we still have a ripple effect but I think not enough is being done not to educate especially our deaf and Henry 55 hard of hearing children about Deaf President Now" (Henry 40). Weiner said there also are concerns about the rising popularity of mainstreaming as opposed to special education for the deaf Weiner also discussed the issue of cochlear implants, which is a topic widely debated in the deaf comniunity. He said that while cochlear implants can be a good thing, it still is important to teach American Sign Language to deaf children and not rely completely on the implants so that deaf children can fully develop their cognitive abilities. Wiener discussed some of the issues that Gallaudet faces currently. For instance, Weiner reports, "the irony is it (ADA) creates more ofa challenge for Gallaudet

University because there is greater access to other colleges and universities" (Henry 44).

The Deaf President Now protest should be presented in history books, Weiner said, "if nothing more than a lesson about a successful movement ora successful effort in the civil rights movenient" (Henry 42). Weiner said he did not know where DPN should be covered in textbooks because he did not know if textbooks talk about the civil rights of the disabled. Weiner explained, "There are deaf people who will say that we are not disabled in the sense that deafness, in many ways, is more ofa cultural condition" (Ibid).

Weiner said, "there needs to be a distinction between I. . .] deafness as a disability and deafness as a cultural condition. And 1 think that anyone who tries to draw the line and deny that deafness is a disability is being too simplistic. Because, first of all, I don't think there is a line. It isjust a fuzzy grey area and you have to deal with thaf (Henry 45).

This of course complicates Gallaudet's role as the center of Deaf culture, which makes the "struggle in this university between supporting something like (the movement to cancel classes for DPN's 5"^ year anniversaiy) and remaining true to the ideals of being an academic institution" very complex (Henry 48). Henry 56

Wiener concluded by talking about the major issues facing the deaf today, which in his mind were technology and the conflict between mainstreaming and specialization, and providing places where the deaf can be with peers. He used as an example a letter he had received that informed him about the problems deaf people face in government subsidized nursing homes. Some elderly deaf people are placed in nursing homes with only hearing seniors run by hearing staff who have limited means of communicating with deaf residents. As a result, this push towards mainstreaming has left some deaf and hard of hearing seniors to live in virtual isolation. This isjust one of many complex issues facing deaf advocates today. Fred Weiner realized that the solutions to the complex problems ofthe deaf in the 21" centuiy cannot be solved in a week, or by a single act.

Still, he believes DPN holds important lessons for all Americans. Henry 57

Appendix

Appendix I (Christiansen and Barnartt 22)

(^ (~~^

Xi'5 -iime In 184Z, a. l^mm (Acholic became, president cftltcUmWrsiti] of/^ott^ly^fr^ In '1315, a. ujoman became^ president of CUelle.sle.y Col/ede. In 1886, a Jei*J be-came. pmsidejtt of Ues/iiua. Lhiyersiiu In i^2^, cL SlacJ^peryoti tecoAte president of Howard Cln'n/crsrtLj hm \H i98S,-ehe Qcdlaudet (Jniversctu fpre^idenaj bdon^ to a DEAF person. 76 shovu OUR. solidartiy tehir^ci OUR rnandat^ -For a. deaf pfBSidertt of OUfl uniuersitUj uou cue invrtdd ib partidpaic fr) a ^hbiaric f^/\C tJyjT GalkudctUniU'=^ ruESDAy, MARCH 1^^

Mike O'Donnell's flyer Henry 58

Appendix 2 (Gannon 98)

WHAT ABOUT THe V, IRAN-CONTRA % I AFFAIR?!!/.,!

l-.i'.SS.'tiSS Henry 59

Appendix 3 (Gannon 169)

<^W«^s»;tWa>^)«H\i^^'SKt^A, . Henry 60

Appendix 4 (Gannon 34)

Fred Weiner, circa 1988 (bottom right) during the DPN protest. Henry 61

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DPN: A History. 1998. Gallaudet University. 17 Dec. 2003 .

Fussman, Cai. "The Nonstop Hero; King Jordan, Gallaudet's First Deaf President, is an Inspiration to the Disabled all over America. But He and His Family are Paying the Price." The Washington Post. 18 Dec. 1988: w20.

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