Third Series1R.9 Monday, November 19, 1962 Kartika 28, 1884 (Saka)

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/2.6$%+$6(&5(7$5,$7 New Delhi CONTENTS [Third Series, Volume I;X:.-November 8 to 20, 1962/Kanika 17 to 29, 1884 (Saka)) No. r.-Thunday, N"".mbtT 8, 1962/Kartika 17, 1884 (Saka) CoIJumu Tribute to Jawars Oral Answers to Questions- .. Starred Questior s Nos. I to 19 1-40 Written Answers to Questiors- Starred Questions Nos. 20 to 34 Unstarred Questiors Nos. 1 to 41 and 43 to 64 Correction of Answer to U.S.Q. No. 352, dated 9-8-1962. Obituary refereree Busiress of the Housc- Simplificatior of Prccedure 89-93 Re : Electior of Shri G. Basu 93-95 Papers laid on the table 95-102 Presidert's assert to Bills 102-03 Christian Marriage ard Matrimor ial Causes Bill- Exter sion of time for presentation of Report of Joint Committee Re : Secret Session . /"Resolutions re : Proclamation of Emerl"ncy and Aggression by Chir5 Business Advisory Committec- Seventh-report 218 Daily Digest. . 219-28 No. 2.-Friday, Novunber 9, 1961/Kartika 18, 1884 (Saka) Oral A'1sw~rs to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 35-48 Written Answers to Ql'estions- Starred Questions No,. 49 to 83 266-89 Unstarred Questions Nos. 65 to 70 and 72 to 164 289-357 Re: Resignation of Shri Krishna Menon 357-59 Re: Motion of nC'-corfidence in the Cou,,:cil of Mir:isters 359-63 Papers laid on the Tab]·, . 36~7 Demards for Supplemen·.ry Grants (Railways) for 1962-63 367 Election to Committee- Estimates Committee Business, Advisory Committe€:- Seventh Report 368 Busir,ess afthe House- Simplification of Procedure 368-80 Re: eiection of Shri G. Basu 38~85 jResolutions re : Proclamation of Emergency and Aggression by China 385-500 Daily Digest . 501-510 No. 3.-SaturJay, November 10, 1962/Kartika 19, 1884 (Sa"") Oral Arswers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 84 to 89, 91 to 94 and 96 to 107 . SII-Sj Written Answers to Questior:s- Starred Questions Nos. 108, 110, III, 114, 115, 117 to 122 and 124 to 128 ii Co!um", tJ,nstarred Questions Nos. 165, 166, 168 to 197, 199 to 201, 203 to 223, 2.2.6 to 2.30, 2.32 to 2.40 , 2.43 to 256, 258 ,259, and 261 to 2.64 567-618 Re: Allowances paid to Members of Railway Accidents Committee 619-628 Papers laid on the Table 619-23 Messages from 624 S peci1ic Relief Bill- Report of Joint Committee 624 Statement re : Measures for maintaining prices of essential commodities 625-28 Statement re: Allowances paid to Members of Railway Accidents Committee 628 Business of the House 629-32 Administrators-General Bill- Extension ohime . 633 \..-Resolutions Re : Proclamation of Emergency and Aggression ~ 633-830 Daily Digest...... 831-840

No. 4.-Monday, NO'IJember I2., I96zKanikil 2.1, 1884 (Saka) Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 12.9 to 142. 841-82 Written Answers to Questions- Staned Questions Nos. 143 to 153 Unstaned Questions Nos. 2.67 to 2.74 and 276 to 298 Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance- Cracker explosion in Delhi Papers laid on the Table' Committee on Private Members' Bills and Resolutions- Ninth Report. 915 Estimate. Committee-- Third and Fourth Reports. Bills introdueed- I. Metal Tokens (Amendment) Bill 915-16 2 Petroleum Pipelines (Acquisition of Right of User in Land) Bill. 916 Resolutions re: Proclamation. of Emergency and Aggression by China 916-II3CJ Daily Digest . II31-34 No. s.-Tuesday, NlifJember 13, 1962/Kartika 22,1884 (SaJoa}- Oral Answer§ to Questions Starred Questions Nos. 154 to 166 and 173 II3S-"7I Written Ansers to Questions Starred Questions Nos., 167 to 172 . II71-7S Unstarred Questions Nos. 299 to 344 and 346 to 363 II7S-1216 Obituary Reference . 1216 Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance-- • Railway accident between Manjhi and Bakulah stations 1217-25 Papers laid on the Table 1225-27 Correction of answer to Starred Question No. U82 1227-28 Statement re : Supply position of petroleum. 1228-31 Foreigners Law (Application and Amendment) Bill-Introduced 1231 Statement re : Foreign Law (Application and Amendment) Ordinance, 1962 1231-32- Companies (Amendment) Bill-Introduced . 1232-33 Statement re : Companies (Amendment) Ordinance, 1962 1233 Resolutions re : Proclamation of Emergency and Aggression by China 1233"-1446 ally Digest DI447-52 iii

No. ·6.-Wednesday, Nl1IJemher 14, 1962/Kartika 23,1884 (Saka) Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 174 to 178, 185, 179 to 181, .183. 184, 186 and 187 Written An.wers to Que.tions- Starred Questions No•. 182 and 188 to 197 Un.tarred Questions Nos. 364 to 420 and 422 to 424

Demand. for Supplementary Gra"ts (General), 1962-63 ~ Resolution. re : Proclamation of Emergency and Aggression by China 1532-1680 Daily Digest 1681-84 No. 7.-Thursday, Nl1IJember IS, 1962/ Kartika 24, 1884 (Saka) Oral Answers to Questions-- *Starred Questior.s Nos. 198 to 205, 207, 208, 206, 209, 210, 213, 215 and 216 1685-1723 Written Answers to Questions-- Starred Questions Nos., 2II, 214. 217, and 218 1724-25 Unstarred Questions Nos. 425 to 469 1725-S4 Papers laid on the Table 17~6 Committee on Private Members' Bill. and Resolutions-- Tenth Report 1757 Customs Bill- Report of Select Committee and Evidence 1757 Business Advisory Committee- Eighth Report 1757-58 Multi-Unit Co-operative Societies (Amendment) Bill-Introduced 1758 Supplementary Demands for Grants (Railways) 1758-1824 Committee on Private Members' Bills and Resolutions-- Ninth Report 1824 Resolution re : Ban on communal organisation. 1824-27 Resolutions Re : Compulsory Military Training 1827-1934 Daily Digest 1935--40 NO.8.-Prid:zy, Nl1IJembtr 16, I962/Kartika, 25, 1884 (Saka). Oral Answers to Questions Starred Question Nos. 219 to 222, 224 to 230, 236 and 231 to 234 1941-82 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Question Nos. 223, 235 , 237 to 242 1982-87 Unstarred Question Nos. 470 to 526 1987-2020 Papers laid on the Table 2020-21 Message from Rajya Sabha Indian Sale of Goods (Amendment) Bill- Laid on the Table as passed by Rajya Sabha 2022 Business of the House 2022-28 Bills Introduced- I. Gift-Tax (Amendment) Bill 2029 2. Defonce ofIndia Bill ; and 2029-3' 3. Delimitation Commission Bill 2035 Statement re: Ordinances 2036-38 Appropriation (Railways) NO.5 Bill- . Introduc:;ed and passed Electricity (Supply) Amendment Bill iv Columns Motion to consider 2041-67 Clauses I and 2 a067-'71 Motion to pass as amended. 20 71

Companies (Amendment) Bill 2071-91 Motion to consider 2°71-91 Clauses I to 3 2<>91 Motion to pass 2 0 91 COmmittee on Private Members' Bill. and Resolutions- Tenth Report

Private Members' Bills Introduced-

I. Central Silk Board (Amendment) Bill (Amencment cf s(cticns 4 and 6) by Shri Sham Lal Saraf. 2092 2. Length of Cinematograph Films (Ceiling) Bill by Shri Rameshwar Tantia 2092-93 3. Delivery of Books and Newspapers (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill (Amendment of section 2) by Shri C. K. Bhattacharyya. ... 2<>93 4. Constitution (Amendment) Bill (Amendment of Articles 136,226 etc.) by Shri Shree Narayan Das 2120-21 Constitution (Amendment) Bill (Amendment of Article 226) by Shri D.C. Sharma- Motion to consider (postponed) 2093-9 Beedi and Cigar Labour Bill (withdrawn) by Shri A. K. Gopalan - Motion to consider 2094--2120 Hindu Marriage (Amendment) Bill-(Withdrawn) (Amendment of section 23) by Shri J .B.S. Biot- Motion to consider Legal Practitioners (Amendment) Bill-(Withdrawn) (Amendment of section 14 and IS) by Shri Hem Raj- Motion to consider . Daily Digest No. 9.-Mondll')!, NO'Iiember 19, 1962/Karlika 28, 1884 ,Sakal Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 243 to 254, 256 to 258, 261, 259 and 260 2155-95 Wrimen Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 527 to 557 and 559 to 561 2195-2216 Re: Motion for Adjournment and Calling Attention Notice 2217 Papers laid on the Table 2217-20 Message from Rajya Sabha 2220 Emoloy.... • Provident Fundi (Amendment) Bill-laid on the Table as passed by Raiya Sabha . 2220 Bills intrOduced- I. Pondicherry (Administration) Bills 2221 2 State-Associated Banks (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill ; 2221-22 3. All- Services (Amendment) Bill ; 2222 4. Workmen's Compensation (Amendment) Bill; and 2223 s. Indian Tariff (Amendment) Bill 2223 StateRlent re : Pondicherry (Administration) Ordinance . 2221 Statement on lituation in NEFA and Ladakh 2230-42 Forei&Ilera Law (Appliction and Amendment) Bill lU23-29, 2a42-72 Columns Motion to consider 2223-a<], 22.p-72 Clauses 2 to 4 and I 2272-73 Motion to pass 2273-74 Metal Tokens (Amendment) Bill 2274-76 Motion to consider 2274-75 Motion to Pass 2276 Petroleum Pipelines (Acquisition of Right and User in Land) Bill 2276- 2301 Motion to consider 2279-99 Clauses 2 to 18 and I ~31 Motion to pass 2301 Demands for Supplementary Grants (General) 1962-63 2302-$2 Business Advisory Committee- Ninth Report. Daily Digest NO.lo.-Tuesday, November 20, 1962/Kartika 29, 1884 (Saka) Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 262 to 269, 272 to 282, 284 and 286 to 288 2359-99 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 270, 271, 283, 285 and 289 Unstarred Questions Nos. 562 to 641 Statement re : Situation in NEFA andLadakh ~5368 Papers laid on the Table 2468-71 Messages from Rajya Sabha 247 1-72 Limitation Bill- Report of JOint Committee 2473 Public Acc:Junts '11~ First Report . 2473 Committee on Absence of Members-- Third Report. "473 BUlj,iness Ajvisory Cl1llmitr'!e- Ninth Report. 2473-78 Demands for Supplementary Grants (General), 1962-63 2478-2 563 Appropriation (No.5) Bm-Introduccd and Passed 2563-64 Customs Bill- Motion to consider, as reported by Select Committee . Daily Digest

N.B.-The sign + marked above the name of a member on question which were orally answered indicates that the question was actUally aslted on the floor of the House by that Member. DEBATES

2155

LOK SABRA anything is being done in regard to Monday, November 19, 1962jICartika tanks. If there are certain parts which we can manufacture in any 28, 1884 (Saka) other place more conveniently, naturally that will be used. The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the Shrl S. M. Banerjee: May I know Clock. whether the Government intend to [MR. S"iC"KFJ! in the Chair] import tanks to meet this emergency? ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS Shri Raghuramaiah: That would be a separate question. Manufacture of Tanks + Mr. Speaker: Yes. r Shri S. M. Banerjee: Shri Daji: We have been told that '243 j Shri Daji: indents have been Vlaced. As far as '") Shri Umanath: the schedule is concerned, I would Shri Yashpal Singh: like to knuw when the work is likely Will the Prime Minister be pleased to commence and when the machinery to state the further progress that has is likely to arrive in India? been made regarding establishment of Shri Raghuramaiah: We hope to the Factory at Avadi where Tanks and establish a firm .Iine of production by other heavy engineering equipments about 1965, That is the scheme at are to be manufactured? present. The Minister of Defence Production Shri Bhakt Darshan: By what time (Shri Raghuramaiah): A statement is this factory expected to start pro- is laid on the Table of the House. [See duction actually? Appendix I, annexure No, 62). Shri Raghuramaiah: I have already Shri S. M. Banerjee: Apart from said that. the facts mentioned in the statement, I want to know whether any steps Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: As a result are being taken to see that the tanks of the possible efforts that have been are manufactured in any other unit indicated in this statement, may I and whether spare-parts are being know if there is any likelihood of the assembled? tool room and other associated parts of the project coming into porduction Shri Raghuramaiah: could not before 1963? catch the question, Shri Raghuramaiah: This is in col- Mr. Speaker: The question is laboration with Armstrong, and it is whether in any other unit, attempt is now part of the stipulation that they being made to manufacture tanks and will deliver a certain number in 1964 for parts being assembled. and thereafter the production will commence. Shrl Raghuramaiah: The intention at the present moment is to make Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know the it as far as possible a self-contained kind of tanks that will be manufac- unit for this purpose. There is no tured here-light, medium Or heavy other place where, at the moment, or all kinds of thanks? 2140 (Ai) LSD-l. 2157 Oral Answers NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Oral Answers

Shri Raghuramaiah: Medium. demand for accommodation increased during the last month or SO and if so w hat steps are being taken to ~ ~ ..n ~ fiN : * ;;n;RT ~ ~ fcn ~ ~ Wr ~~ it ~ Q1 increased demand? ~~ Ztq ~ ,Shri Raghuramaiah: lit the hon. Member is referring to the need for tr ~ ? ~ bt> 'R ~ lFff increased accommodation for jawans 'mIT ~ I 'fln ~ ~ ~ '1ft 'fifRT on account of the present emergenc.'. that is being considered separately. ~~ Shri Surendra Pal Singh: May I know what was the Defence Ministry's ~~ ~~r' total requirements of accommodation ~~ ? up to two months back and what per- centage of that requirement has been Shri Ramanathan Chettiar: In view met? of the national emergency may I know what steps the r~' will Shri Raghuramaiah: The rr~ take to have the matter expedited and ment of married accommodation for also request the foreign collaborator officers of th.. armed forces headquar- to send the necessary parts and ters in 1393, in addition to separate machinery earlier in order to start accommodation for single officers and production before 1965? JCO's. Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: In view of Mr. Speaker: It is a suggestion for the affirmative answer to the main action. question, may I know when the propo- sal is likely to be started for implemen- Houses lor Defence Personnel in Delhi tation and if implemented what per- centage will be available for giving + accommodation to the defence person- r Shri Surendra Pal Sing'h: nel? *2«. ~ Shri Bhag'wat Jha Azad: L.Shri Bhakt 'Darshan: Shri RlIghuramaiab: It is a question of priority. In view of the present Will the Prime Minister be pleased emergency, what priority can be given to state: for this is also under consideration. Shrl Bhakt Darshan: May I know (a) whether it is a fact that his if the Government is considering the lofinistry has in view a plan to provide proposal to get these quarters cons- permanent housing accommodation tructed by troop labour, as was done in for the defence personnel in Delhi; Ambala and Ferozepur? lind Some Hon. Members: Not at this (b) if so, when this scheme will be moment. put into operation? Mr. Speaker: Next question. Shri The Deputy MiBister in the Minis- Borooah. try of Defence (Shri D. R. Chavaa): Central Tea Wage Board (a) and (bl. Yes, Sir. A proposal to provide residential accommodation + for Service personnel of Armed Forces *245. J Shri P. C. Borooah: Headquarters and its attached units in L Shri P. Kunhan: New Delhi!Delhi Cantonment is under Will the Minister of Labour and consideration. Employment be pleased to state: Shri Surendra Pal Singh: In view (a) whether the Central Tea Wage of the changed circumstances, has the Board has submitted its report; 2159 Oral .4nswers KARTlKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Oral Answers 2160

(b) if so, what are their main recom- Shri Priya Gupta; May I know if mendations; and any representative of organised labour (c) if not, by what time the report in the tea plantations w;l! be taken as is· expected? a member of the wage board and what are the terms of reference of the wage The Minister of Supply in the Minis- board? try of Economic and Defence Co-ordi- .ation (Shri Hathi): (a) No. Mr. Speaker: They have advanced sufficiently and this is not the stage (b) Does not ,arise. to make that suggestion. (c) It is not possible to say at this stage when the Board will be able to Shri S. M. Banerjee: May I know complete its work. whether the interim recommendations have been implemented by all the tea Shri P. C. Borooah: May I know at gardens and if not, the number of those what stage the matter rests with the who have not implemented and the Central Tea Wage Board? reasons? Shri Hathi: The sittings of the Board are continuing. The last meet- Shri Hathi: They have been im- ing was held at Bangalore on 25th plemented. October, 1962. Shri P. C. Borooah: May I know whether the Government is aware of ihe fact that both employers and em- r~r ployees are anxious that the wage ~~ board recommendations should be ex- pedited on the ground that this is the ~~ ~~~ time for them to arrange !1nance for r~ next year? ~ m\: Shri Hathi: Government is aware of it and we have asked the Board to ;m ~r m-< ~ lP-iT t expedite their recommendations. ~~~' ~~ ~~ Shri Tyagi: On a point of order, ~' ~ '3'i'R ~ ~ it llil: ~ fif;;r.ft wrfu m-.: Shri Hathi: I have infonned the hon. Speaker that on behalf of Shri ~~ ; Nanda. I shall answer this question to- ~ ~ ~ ~ day. "I'f> :rt 'Jf'R ;m ~~~ Shri A. N. Vidyalankar: May I know whether any interim recommen- (IT) ;m ~ ~ ~ fif;:iT lJlf" dations have been made and if so what m are they? ~~~~ ~~'~ ~~~~~ m-.: Shri Hathi: They have made inte- rim recommendations, which are divid- ('!I') lIR ~ ;:iT ~ ~ ;m r~ ed into two fOr South ~~~~ India, i.e. Madras and Kerala and an- other for Assam and . ~ lrnRVf ~ ;oq- They have given increase in wages for .m: if different areas. ~ (-it ~ ;:n1f) : ~ m-.: (v). 2161 Oral Answers NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Oral Answers 2162

i!r.f ~ ~ '1ft C('''1''t¥lfc .. ~ n ~ ~ ~ ~ '1''r~~~~~ if Bi'rm: ~ ~ I ¥IT >nn..:iT m+f ~ : ~ ~ 'R <'iT ~ 'Iff ~ ~ '¥t if; ~ f

(d) The matter will be considered 'lit If'llfllT ~ ~ I fu1:!; ~ ~ wvft ~ mra- n ~ ~ ~ ifR ¥IT ~ ? ~ 'IiTfu<;r ~ ~ ~ ~ I 'lit ~ ~~~ 8hri Sham Lal Saral: In view of the fact that these discrepancies have ~ if; ~ ~ ~ if ~ 'fT11 ~~ come to light now, may I know whe- >;ft

Shri Sham Nath: The working of Will the Prime MiDJster be pleased the Society has not been stopped. One to state; Shri Subramaniam is looking after the working of the Society. Shri (a) the stand taken by the Govern- Ezra Mir has been appointed in an ment of India on President Soekarno's honorary capacity as producer in proposal to hold second Bandung Con- charge of the Society's films pending ference of Afro-Asian Nations; and the appointment of a regular General (b) whether there is any proposal Secretary. to invite Soviet Russia alsO?

~ ~ <'flo ~ 1i lli[ ~ The Minister of state in the Ministry of External Affairs (Shrlmati Lakshml ~ ~ fi!i Oi'f ~ 'liT lli[ ~ Menon): (a) We are not aware of any ~rrrr~~~~~~ firm decision as yet about the holding '~~~rr''~ , of the Second Bandung Conference. There was an idea of calling a Pre- ~'1'''~~'3'' paratory Meeting of interested coun- fTl1 if; m ~ fi!i

Secolld Bandun;- ConfereJlce srnmrr

Mr. Speaker: Sino-Indian dispute Mr. Speaker: Next question. is aitogether a different matter. bldian Nationals Kidnapped by Shri Hem Barua: May I know if Pakistanis from Rajasthan it is a fact that in the present political climate, not to speak of India, even Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: other countries are not in favour of rShri Bhakt Darshan: giving China an undue prominence, I Shri Barish Chandra Mathur: which it would undoubtedlv seek, by i Shri P. R. Chakraverti: holding a second Bandung Conference Shri s~ Sin,:h: and, if so. whether other countries I Dr. L. M. Smghvl: have conveyed their reactions or their *248. ~ Shri Y. D. Singh: opinions on this matter to our Gov- I Shri P. Venkatasubbaiah: ernment? I Shri Vidya Charan Shukla: Shri Basumatari: Sbri : In the I answer to the main question it has I Shri Tan Singh: been stated that a number of coun- L Shri P. L. Rarupal: tries were not in favour of holding Will the Prime Minister be pleased this conference in the near future for to state: various reasons; Of course, the latest developments in regard to our war (a) whether a platoon commander with China were not there then; these and three contables of the Rajasthan are later developments. But these armed constabulary of Bikaner diVI- developments make it all the more sion were captured by the Pakistani undesirable to hold such a conference border force in September last; and now. (b) if so, what action has been taken Shri lDdrajit Gupta: How many of by Government of India in this regard! the countries whiCh participated in the first Bandung Conference have The Depaty Minister In the Minis- supported India openly in this conflict try of E:dernal Aftalrs (Sbri Diaesla with China and have any of them sup- Singh): (a) Yes, Sir. ported China? (b) In accordance with the Ground Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I could not Rules Agreement, Immediate cor' give the figure. A number of them W)lS made by the Indian border police have supported us and a number of with the Pakistan Rangers and, after them are more or less silent. a joint enquiry, all the arrested per- sons were returned, with their arms 11ft ~ mro: ~~ and ammunition. On October 8 and. 9, ~~~~~ 1962. ~~''~'~ Sbri Bhapat Jha Azad: Could qf

Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: May I The Prime Minister and Minister of know whether they complained of External Aftairs, Defence and Atomic inhuman treatment after their release, Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): that is, after they were returned to Every such incident is taken up with us? the Pakistan Government. Our gene- ral desire is that we have to avoid Shri Dinesh Singh: No, Sir; there incidents an" to have a peaceful was no complaint of any inhuman frontier and goou relations with treatment. Pakistan. In these matters there is a procedure or ground rules laid down. "ifT 'ffif m.:r ~' ~ That procedure was followed and as R;ff 9'f. ~ Wl'i'f'R W ~ ~ a result of that these people were ~ ,g if ~ '16T W 'flIT ~ released. fu<:r ~ iT ,1"1" lfM iT l: IT'1 r~~' ~ ~ f;R if m ~ ~ ~~~~~~ Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: May know if, in the light of the present ~~~r'~ ? emergency in particular, any parti- cular steps are being taken to avoid ~~~~~ ouch ugly incidents which definitely 1~~ I go to worsen the relations? Shri Diuesh Smgh: We do not pro- ~~~1'rrrrr~ voke these incidents and we are ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ constantly taking care that there f.!; 'flIT f<:rl should be no such incidents. ~~~''~~ Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: It is ~ ~ iT 'WfT1t ;:r tT 'flIT ~ ft;rij' not that we support it. I think, my ~~~~~ question has been completely mis- understood. ~~~r~~ Mr. Speaker: What should this Government do? This Government has not done anything in that respect 00 that theSe things should recur. 8hri Harish ChaJldra Mathur: The + ball lies in their court; the fault lies r~~ with them. They had detained our ~' ~ ~ lit ~ : officers for more than 15 days. L Mr. Speaker: What should this 'flIT ~'' ~ ~ ~r ~ Government do? ~ ~~ it; crrofir.cr ~ ~ Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: So, I ~~~~'~' wanted to know whether in view of rr~r this emergency the Government has taken it up with the Pakistan Govern- (Ot:) ~~~ Oft;; ment, more particularly because it is ~~~' the Pakistan Governmellt which is ~ blame for this. ~~1 2169 Oral Answers NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Oral Answers 2 170

~ ~ cro ~ ~ f.{lfivr ;r.rij ~ ~ ~

(tT) W m'imr '!it fi;m ~ ~ osf\' ;m- m: il'{ ~ ~ '~' '" ~ fiI;m 'flIT lIfT, ~ ~ ~ ~ :a-m:: ij Ttr!R ~ \l:T ~ ~ lff ~ ~ ~ ~ tp; "Sfm"it '!6 I ~ (a) The Committee has held 5 more 8hri Bhagwat Jha Azad: Since the meetings and examined and approved efforts of this committee according to 11 more film posters presented to the Government are laudable, may 1 them. know if there is any definite decrease (b) There is no proposal, at pre- in the display of such posters? sent, to constitute similar Committees in other film producing centres. Shri Sham Nath: Yes; there is a significant improvement. (c) It is early to hazard and opi- nion but the committee is havin2 good Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know effect on the poster producers. what definition this committee has arrived at so far as obscene posters s'~~~'~ are concerned? What are the grounds for declaring a poster as obscene? ~ il;m ~ ~ ~ fi!; li<[ ~ ~ ~ m<: if'ilT'!>C! lJTv:r wr;n 'W1 'Il1: Shri Sham Nath: Posters which are -W ~ 1Q;m ~ ij 'flIT w1f ~ offensive to the public taste or senti- r~'~'~ ment or are obscene or vulgar are rejected by this committee. osf\' m;r ~ : 1l ~ ~ fi!; li<[ Shri Joachim Alva: It is not a ques- ~~'~ ~~~'1 tion of banning· the present posten '~'~ ~~ which have already been printed. Has ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ the Committee given any suggestion o;fR

Shri Sham Nath: The Government ~ ~ ~ lffit :it '!1m: ~ has no powers at present to ban pos- ters like that. The pUrPose of the r~~~~~ Committee was to do something with 'liT ~ ~ fif;m:. ~ ? a view to curb the tendency of /' bringing out indecent and vulgar pos- Shri Sham Nath: This was the verr; ~ ters by getting the voluntary co- purpose far which this committee w ' operation of the producers. I think appointed. the producers are co-operating in this work. ~''~ ~~ Shri A. p. Jain: In reply to part m lffit;;IT ~ ~ ~ , . (c) the hon. Minister said that the '~~r'''~~ ~ Committee has served a useful pur- pose. Part (b) refers to Calcutta and ISfTm1{;n1{: ~ ~ ~ i.'I'f> other film producing centres. The ~ ~ ~ '1~ '11~1'1 Minister has given reasons for Cal- cutta. Why has he not set up similar '~ ~~ ~ ~ 'lOU committees for other similar produc- ~ ~ ~ ~ '!if W ~ if; ing centres? r~ ~ m ~ 'fiT'J:'1 if; An Han. Member: Madras. ~~~~'~ I

Shri Sham Nath: As I have just Shrimati Savitri Nigam: In his now said, we are watching the work reply the hon. Minister said that 12 of this Bombay committee. As far posters have been examined by this as Madras is concetlled, we have not committee so far. I would like to received any complaint in regard to know whether this 12 was the num- any obscene posters. ber given to it or a larger number of posters were given, but only 12 have ~~~'~~ been examined. And the other point I want to know is ...... ~1~~~~ ~~r~~ Mr. Speaker: Only one point she might know in one question. ~~ ~ ili ~ ~ ~ ~ fiI; ~ ~'~w~~~ Shri Sham Nath: I did not say that only 12 posters were placed before ~~ ? this committee. I said that the com- mittee has held so far 9 meetings and ~ ~111 : ~~ WT ili ~ ~ approved 17 posters. It is just possi- ~ I ;;IT ~ ~ ~ ~ ble that many more posters may have been submitted, to the Committee. ~ w ili ~ ~ I fifo ~ m, fifo ~ '1To 1:t'fo ~ fifo ~ Sarpanches as Claims Commissio.ers "ll¥, fifo ;fro m<:o ~ ~ >..iT ilio *250. Shri P. R. Chakraverti: Will ~ +fIGT, ~ ~ ~ I the Minister of Labour and Employ- ment be pleased to state: An Hon. Member: All producers? (a) whether the Central Govern- Shri Sham Nath: Yes Sir, five pro- ment are in favour of permitting the ducers are its members and the Con- State Governments to appoint Sar- troiler of the Films Division is the panches as Claims Commissioners Chairman of the Committee. under the Minimum Wages Act; (b) if so, whether there will be 1511~ ~~ ~ ceiling 0'1 claims to be entertained by ~~~~~ them; 2173 Oral Answers NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Oral Answers 2174

(c) whether there is any suggestion (d) Government of India have au- from the State Governments that the thorised the Embassy of India, Ran- Nyaya Panchayats might be constitu- goon. to register as Indian citizens ted as claims authorities; and those who qualify under the existing rules. and who decide to apply for such (d) if so. what is the reaction of citizenship. The Embassy has been Central Government? instructed to interpret and implement The Minister of Supply in the Min- the rules liberally. The C}o\'ernment istry of Economic and Defence Co- of the Union of Burma has also assured operation (Shri Hathi): (a) The State the Embassy of India, Rangoon, that Governments being competent to they would speed up the examination amend the Minimum Wages Act to of applications of those who have suit their requirements, no permission applied for Burmese citizenship. ~'r of the Central Government is required ther. the Embassy has made represen- for appointing Sarpanches as Claims tations to the Burmese Foreign Office Commissioners. requesting them to liberalise their re- gulations on the subject so as to enable (b) This is for the State Govern- tho,e people of Indian origin who wish men ts to decide. to apply for Burmese citizenship to do ( c) Yes, there is such a suggestion so. from the Government of Maharashtra. l"hri Hari Vishnu Kamath: May (d) In view of the varying patterns know whether the attitude or policy of Panchayat organisations in differ- of the present Government of General ent States, this matter has to be left to Ne Win is more favourable or more the State Governments to decide. sympathetic towards this problem than that of his predecessor, that is, of bldians in Burmll Thakin Nu, and if so, whether any talks have been held at governmental *251. Shri Koya: Will the Prime level or any other level between the Minister be pleased to state: two countries? (a) the number of Indian citizens in Shrimati Lakshmi MenoD: The last .'Burma at present; portion of the main answer refers to the attempts made by the Embassy in (b) the number of Indians who have Rangoon to expedite the procedure. ,so far applied for Burmese citizenship and the number of those who got it; Shri Hari Vislmu Kamath: My (c) the number of citizens of Indian question is different. I want to know -origin who are Stateless; and whether any talks have been helel The Embassy instructions are differ- (d) how the Government of India ent. propose to help these StatelESS people? Mr. Speaker: It is very dif'JIcult t. The Minister of State in the Min- cOmpare the attitude of one Govern- istry of External Mairs (Shrimatl ment with another and say whether one 'Lakshmi Menon): (a) 1,80,000 (ap- is more favourable than the other. prox). (b) Approx. 35,OUO applied for Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: At least, Burmese citizenshIp out of which the second part of my s~~ may .about 7,000 have been accepted. be answered. Have any talks bee• held between the two countries? (e) Approx. 370,000 persons of Indian origin are without any citizen- Shrimatl Lakshmi Menon: Yes; to- ship papers. Out of this number wards the last portion of the main nearly 100,000 are technically eligible answer I had stated that talks were to apply for Burmese citizenship; the held by our Embassy w'ith the Bur- Temaining 270,000 could be described mese Government, and ssr~ ."s Stateless. have been given that the rules will 2175 Oral Answers KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKAl Oral Answe)'s be liberally interpreted and the pro- steps to see that thls rule might not cedures expedited. be so strictly enforced, and the amount might be raised. Sltri Hem Barua: In view of the Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: All these fact that these Indians in Burma have things are raised from time to time. to pay exorbitant fees for the .enewal But we have not been successful. The of \he stav permits, and inordinate Burmese Government take steps to delav is a'lso involved in this opera- suit their convenience and not to suit tion: may I know whether this parti- the convenience of aliens. cular fact has been brought to the noti"e of the Burmese Government. Shri Sham Lal Saraf: May I know and if so, their reaction to it7 whether such of the Indian CItizens Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: These who are now in Burma who have rule, apply 110t only to Indians but to been registered as having no State of all 3Ii,·ns. and as such, we cannot take their Own are engaged in business or sny special step. It is a thing that they have any immoveable property affect, all foreigners in Burma. there? Has any inquiry been made about this? Sltri Ranga: It is in regard to the administration of these rules that' my Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: There hon. f:'iend had put hi, supplementary are three categories of Indians living qu€'!'tion _earlier, nalnely whether any in Burma: firstly, agriculturists, sUC'CL'.',":; has been achieved in lessening secondly traders and thirdly, govern- the delay in getting the permission of ment servants. the Burmese authorities for the stay permits. Apart from that. I wish to Shri D. C. Sharma: How many ask this question, namely whether any applications for Indian citizenship success has been achieved by Govern- have been received by ~ Indian Em- ment in getting any relaxation in the bassy in Burma, how many have beeD rule that was promulgated as to the disposed of and haw many remain transfer of their savings to India, the pending? maximum of which, is, I think, about Rs. 30 or so per month. Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: I have not got the figure of those who haye Shrimati Lakshmi MeAon: Rs. 20 applied for Indian citizenship. per month. Shri Bishwanath Roy: Is it a fact Shd Raaca: It has nOw come down to Rs. 20 per month. May I know that Indian citizens who were working whether any lmprovement is likely to previously in Burma and who came be made in the near future in this home for some time are not getting regard? fresh visas for going back to Burma from the Burmese Government? Shrimati Lakshmi Meaon: could not give any answer to that, because Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: They it is for the Burmese Government to have to apply for re-entry vi$as. decide what procedures it will follow with regard to remittances abroad Employment and PopllIati.a depending upon their foreign exchange resources position. + Shri Daji: Shri Ranga: We know that it is for rShri Indrajit Gupta: the Burmese Government to make ~ Shri S. M. Banerjee: their own rules. But are we not ·252. I Shri Umanath: making any representations from time I Shri Yashpal Singh: to time on this matter . . . L Shri Inder :1. Malhotra: Mr. Speaker: Order, order. The Will the Minister of ~ be question is whether we have taken pleased to state: 2177 Oral Answers NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Oral Answers

(a) whether Government have taken Shri A. P. Jain: I understanti that note of the 1961 census report that there is a difference between the un- employment has not kept pace with employment figures as found in the the growth of population; and census and the assessment of the Plan- ning Commission. Has any attempt (b) what action, if any, is proposed been made to find out the causes of to be taken 'in the matter? this discrepancy and reconcile it. The Deputy Minister in the Minis- Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: Far try of Labour and Employment and from it. It is not so. Actually in for PlanDing (Shrl C. R. Pattabhi population calculation it is 439 million Raman): (a) and (b). The Govern- 'instead of 434 million. We have taken ment have taken note of the im'pli- into account the provision for Goa, catio;'!s of the 1961 census on employ- Daman, Diu and Kashmir. ment requirements in framing the Third Five Year Plan. Shri A. P. Jain: I was asking about unemployment figures in the census. Shri Daji: What according to Gov- ernment now has been the lag between Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: Un- employment provided and the persons employment? No, the Planing Com- who seek employment? mission figures are quite right so far as unemployment figures are concern- Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: The ed. It is only in population growth position is that about 43.5 per cent of that there IS a slight difference. the population are workers which means working force plus the unem- Shri Inder J. Malhotra: May ployed which is the labour force. That know whether during the Third Five has been taken into account. Year is Plan, there has been an increase in the employment opportunities as Shri Daji: It is good that Govern- far as the agricultural popUlation is ment have taken account of these. concerned? Wbat steps are being taken now to see that this lag is made good by the Shri C. R. Pattabhi RamaJl: I can- end of the Third Plan period? not give the break up figures. But all in all it is 33.81 per cent. Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: Actual- ly, there is no drag. Looked at trom Shrimati Yasboda Reddy: Replying that point of view, the rate of increase to a question some days ago, the hon. in employment from 1951 to 1961 was Minister said that there has been higher than the rate of growth of migration ftom the villages to the population. But technically, the towns. Wbat are the plans or schemes growth of population as such and the which the Ministry has recently in- increase in employment should not be troduced to stop this migration from compared because the former includes villages and give them employment old people, students, young people there itself? and infirm people who do not come Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: There under the employment category. are rural works programmes--rural Shri Indrajit Gupta: In view of the industries. necessity for reducing employment and Shrimati Yashoda Reddy: What also in view of the present emergency percentage has been absorbed there! needs, have any new schemes for development, which are labour inren- Mr. Speaker: No percentage. sive, been initiated both in the rural and industrial sectors? Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: The programme has been started. I could 8hrl C. R. Pattabhl RamaJl: Yes, not give the percentage. there are rural works programmes started. Many small industries have Mr. Speaker: I have disallowed that been started as part of the programme. question. I .2179 Oral Answers KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Oral Answers 2180

Smi Vasudevan Nair: The 1961 11ft ~ ~ : ~ ~ '1ft -census has pointed out that in certain areas of the country the unemploy- ~ m if llit 'J:"U ~ ~ ment goes up to 30 per cent. of the ~ if; m+f.t ~ "1T, ~ ~ ~ 'POPulation and even more. My con- ~~rr~ I ~~~ stituency happens to be a place like that. May I know whether there is ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 'Iii\q €,¥ ~ any special scheme for such areas par- flrzfi if; 3;lT<: ~ ;:r;:r -q ~ ticularly, to take up labour-intensive work? 11ft ~ ~ 'fl11 ~ ~ Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: Yes. ~ ~ fir. m ~ f.rf?:;r

Fake ssr~ 11ft ~ f% : OfT ~ QT ;;rr ~ ~ 'fliTf'f.' (a) whether the investigation in the ~ Q:T eft 'Rr ~ it '!1m g I cose of the "Fake British Passport" holder has been completed: 11ft 'f'ffi' m: ~ * "fT'f"IT ~ ~ ~ (b) if so, what are the final find- 'iil0fT r fir. it rn ings; and if ~'' tu ';l:j:y ~ ~ ~ ? (c) whether any action has been s~~ ~ rn q ~ initiated ag" ':osl the offender? "'!RT it< ~ ~ ~ ~ I '

11ft "0 "" 0 fmT: ~ ;;rr;;;rr + Shri R. S. Pandey: ~ ~ 'fl11 ti;ft ~ 0f"i'ffiT r f", *254. ~ Shri Vidya Charan m fir. ftiJ fiRR i'ITrir 1f,T qar 'I<'IT ~ l Shukla: fJH:ii1' 'fT<'ft

expenses of registration fees etc. of Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: It was the above property; the same house.

(c) whether it is a fact that even Warships by end of 1961, the property has neither been registered nor any + account or refund of the advance r Shri Gulshan: obtained from the lawyer; and *256. .( Shri Kapur Singh: L Shri Buta Singh: (d) if so, the reaSOns therefor? Will the Prime Minister be pleased The Minister of State in the Minis- to state: try of External Affairs (Shrimati Lakshmi Menon): (a) Only two build- (a) whether Government have ings were purchased, one for the decided to undertake construction of residence of the Ambassador and the major warships at the recently acquir- other for the residence of the First ed Mazagon dock at Bombay and Secretary at the cost of Rs. 6,25,000 Garden Reach Workshops at Calcutta; and Rs. 80,000, respectively. (b) if so, when the work on this (b) Yes. project is likely to begin; and

~ c) One of the two properties, (c) when we ore likelv (0 have the namely, the Ambassador's residence first warship constructed' at either of was registered during this year. these two workshops? Finalisation of the accounts with the lawyer had been kept pending till the The Deputy Minister in the Minis- registration of the other property. try of Defence (Shri D. R. Chavan): (a) to (c). Yes, Sir. Government have (d) The delay in registration is due decided (0 build major warships at to the fact that the basic property the Mazagon Dock. Limited, Bombav. law in Indonesia had been in a state and have also approved a plan to of flux and even after the relevant expand the existing facilities at that law had been published, detailed yard to undertake such work. At regulations regarding the implemen- this stage it is not possible to indicate tation of this law so far as the subur- as to when the first warship will be ban area of Dj akarta is concerned completed. have not yet been formulated. One of the two properties, namely. the Shri Gulshan: May I know whether First Secretary's residence is situated Government has decided to construct in a suburb of Djakarta. warshiPs only with indigenous resour- ces, Or whf'ther the Government of India has a;ked any foreign govern- '1ft ~~ 'flIT ~ mrn : If ment to collaborate or give any ~ WRIT ~ f.t; firo mr iF ~ iF m- The Minister of Defence Production ~'1' if ~ ~ 'R: ;;iT (Shri Raghuramaiah): We are exami- ~ gm "!T, ~

Shri Sham Lal Saraf: May I know wers?-after Pakistani towers were if this collaboration includes technical pulled down or before that? personnel, technical guidance as well Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: The as raw materials which may not be demolition of the two towers on the available within the country? Pakistan side was started on the first Shri Raghuramaiah: The collabo- week of January 1962 and completed ration will naturally cover everything On the lOth January, 1962. that is not available in this country Shri Surendra Pal Singh: Is there whether by way of technical resour- any agreement between the two ces or otherwise. Governments which allows both the countries to construct such towers ~~~r ~ 150 yards beyond the boundary line ~~ f.!; ~ ~

Mr. Speaker: All right. Shri S. M. Banerjee: Is there nG agreement between employers and Interim Award of Jute Wace Board representatives of the workers. *261. Shri S. M. Banerjee: Will the Shri Hathi: I said that out of the Minister of Labour and Employment four mills, two have implemented. be pleased to state: There is no question of any interest. (a) whether the interim award of Shri S. M. Banerjee: I am comp- "the Jute Wage Board has not yet been letely satisfied with the answer to implemented in jute mills in U.P.; question No. 261. I am concerned with 258 now. I am asking about the (b) if so. the reason therefor; and non-submission of the report. The hon. Minister has stated that there (c) th0 steps taken by Government? are some difficulties. I want to know The Minister of Supply in the Minis- what the difficulties are and whether try of Economic and Defence Co-ordi- any agreement has been reached with nation (Shri Hathi): (a) to (c). Two the members of the Wage Board or is mills have implemented the recom- there any difference. mendation fully and one has done so Shri Hatbi: 'There is no difference partly. The question of implementa- . between the members of the Wage tion in the remaining one mill is Board. The only difficulty is that, as under active consideration of the State hon. Members know, some members Government. of the Board are Members of Parlia- Shri S. M. Banerjee: In regard to ment and there are others who are No. 258, I want to know which are the also busy, and they could not find interests which are hampering the time and therefore the meeting has to work and which do not want this to be postponed. be accepted? Shri Daji: What about Uttar Pra- desh? I would like to know, out of Shri Hathi: In the implementation the several jute mills in the country, of the recommendations of the wage how many of them have as yet not board, of the four mills in U.P. two implemented the interim award given have fully implemented: one has parti- by the Wage Board. 'ally implemented. The difficulty with the mills is that it has not got the Shri Hathi: Out of the 84 mills,. all necessary finances and therefore, it have implemented, except the mills entered into an agreement with the in Uttar Pradesh. workers that they were to be paid in Shri S. M. Banerjee: I want to certain instalments and they paid know whether any time-limit has upto June 1962 and then they stopped. been fixed and whether the members In September again they have started. have been requested or an appeal has So far as the fourth mill is concerned, been made to them to see that the the question was whether that mill report is submitted. was covered by the recommendations of the wage board. That matter has Shri Hathi: The members have now been clarified. been requested to expedite, but no time-limit has been fixed. Shri S. M. Banerjee: I wanted to ask that question about 261. But the Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know if main question is 258 about the wage the Government will appoint such board. Hon. Minister said that there persons as members of this Board as were some interests. I want to will have time to attend the meet- know which are those interests. ings? Shri Hathi: No, no. have never Mr. Speaker: It is a suggestion for .said that there were any 'interests'. action. 2187 OrciZ Answers KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Oral A1~' 2188

~~~ ~r (b) The Committee has been set up to bring ~ a closer liaison bet- + ween the Government and the Press r ~r on matters relating to the Press. ~~ (c) The first meeting of the Com- 5~~ mittee was held in New Delhi on November 5, 1962. o.furffi ~ ~ : '~ 15ft ~ eimn : (d) The Committee decided to ap- i point two sub-Committees to consi- I ~ ;;fo ifo rno 00;e : der, respectively, the question of for- ~~ ma tion of a Press Council and the ~ ~ formulation of a code of conduct for L15ft ;;m:r : the Press wi th reference to national mtegration and the present emer- ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 'flIT ;fft gency_] -'*T ~ ~ ~ ~ mro : »i't'll'!, 'flIT ('I') 'flIT ~ ~ ffilmr 'Ii' ~ "3fR '1'N!T ~ fif; r"f ffilmr 'f; ~ 'PT m;-;r 'R fum 'PIT ~ ; 'f; ~ 'l"'IT'm 'ffi if ~~ r"f lI"li'n: (19 ) 1~ aT ~' m.mr 'l'T ~ lIfrf'i;'Hrt 5TrnWl gi' ,<1 fif; ;;IT 'flIT 'f.T'-l 'fro 'PIT ~ ; -.m:m 'f; '1i '1i 'l"'IT"fR 'f"i ~ f:;r;r1f;T ~~ if ~ ~~ '3"f'f; ~ ( l"[ ) 'flIT ffilmr '*T

~ ftn:1; ~ ;;it fif; ~ Shri Sham Lal Saraf: My submis- it m:r- sion is whether this committee will ~~ ~ m<: w ftn:1; ~ ~ m- go into that aspect of the question,. ~ aT 'flIT ~

Dr. B. GopaIa Reddi: That is a Dr. B. GopaIa Reddi: I have not different matter altogether. received any complaint against the Shri Sham Lal Saraf: May know formation of the two committees. The if this consultative committee will go terms of reference of the first com- into the question of advising the mittee are to consider the recommen- Ministry on the press trends so that dations of the Press Commission the Ministry is in a position to com- regarding the formation of a Press municate the same to the Government Council, to examine the provisions of effectively as well as to individual the Press Council Bill, 1956 a, passed Ministries'? by the Rajya Sabha and to make suit- a hIe recommendations to the Press Mr. Speaker: It is a suggestion for Consultative Committee with regard action. (Interruption). to the modifications if any, which may Chal Answers KARTlKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Oral Answers 2192

be considered necessary in the provi- '~~ 'rr~ sions of the Press Council Bill, 1956 as passed by the Rajya Sabha. ~~ ~ fit; ~ if li' ~ f.f;lrr ~ fit; +i+il"ll(q:si'i if; lIT ;;iT ~ 'f.T 'l>Pt The terms of reference of the second sub-committee will be to consider r1~~~~'~~~ formulating a code of conduct for the ~ 'ltf ~

(c) The priority to be accorded to may I know what specific steps Gov- various schemes in the plan of the ernment propose to take to bridge this Union Territory is to be determined gulf? in accordnnce with the general objec- tives of attaining the same level and Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: It is "pattern ~ economic development as given in the main answer. All aspects obtain, in the rest of India, as early of the Goan economy are taken into as possible, and ensuring an early consideration and the money allotted transition from the colonial economic will be used for the development of set-up which existed in the past to that area. that sought to be achieved for the whole of India by the National Plans. Shri Indrajit Gupta: What is the reason for the delay in Government Shri p. C. Borooah: May I know deciding whether the port of Marma- whether the draft plan has been sub- gao will be developed as a commercial mitted by the Planning Board which port or as a naval' base? was constituted specially for laying down the development plans and, if The Minister without Portfolio so, the schemes which have been given (Shri T. T. Krishnamachari): Investi- top priority by the Board? gations are being made and Govern- ment have not come to any decision Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: There are in the matter. The reason is due to many schemes. This plan was discus- the fact that many factors have to be sed between the representatives of the taken into account before Govern- Planning Commission, Ministries of ment come to a decision. External Affairs, Finance and Trans- port and the CWPC on the 29th Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know if September 1962. The items cover all Goa will have a separate university iR aspects of the economy of Goa. It is view of the fact that all the States of a long list but if you wish me to read India have their own universities? it, Sir, .. Mr. Speaker: No, it need not be Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: Yes, Sir; read. that question is also under considera- tion. Shri Venkatasubbaiah: May I know whether any non-official committees ~r 00 'fi1 have been constituted by the adminis- Ira tion to implement the schemes? ~

Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: This is (b) if co. the important develop- for the immediate development of the ment schemes formulated for these Goan economy, though there will be areas? long-term plans also. The Prime Minister and Minister Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Is this of External Affairs, Defence aDd Ato- development plan for Goa being inte- mic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Xehru): grated or ~ with the Third ( a) Yes, Sir. An industrial survey of Plan for the whole of India and, if so, Pondicherry was undertaken by the in what manner? Small Industries Service Institute, Madras, during March-April, 1958. Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: We have Similar survey reports in respect of already finished two years of the Karaikal, Mahe and Yanam are be- Third Plan. This is a sort of ad hoc ing prepared by the Industries De- arrangement made to meet the emer- partment of the Government of Pon- gency. dicherry. Shrimati Savitri Nigam: May (b) Several wood-working, leather know if any special scheme has been manufacturing and other small scale chalked out to provide employment industries in the public sector, and a to the unemployed? Re-rolling Mill, three Textile Mills, a Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: That is Sugar Mill. an Umbrella Ribs Manu- also part of the programme. facturing Factory, etc., in the public sector, have been established already. !\lr. Speaker: The question list is The important schemes of develop- over. The question hour is also over. ment costing over Rs. 25 lakhs which have been formulated and are in WRITTEN Al'

(e) details thereof? Will the Prime Minister be pleased to state: The Prime Minister aDd Minister .1 External Mairs, Defence and Ato- (a) whether production in Ordnance mic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): Factories considerably increased (a) There have been some cases of during 1961-62; Naga rebels extorting food and money from villagers in the Tuensang Dis- (b) if so, value of work done in trict. The number of such cases has, 1960-61 and in 1961-62 both for arm,. however, been less than that in pre- and civilian use separately; vious years, due to the pressure exert- ed by our Security Forces. (b) and (c). The villagers them- (c) whether new Ordnance Fac- selves have been offering resistance tories are likely to be established; to the hostiles and in one incident they killed three of them with ha t- (d) if so, number of such Factories; chets and spears. and

The Government have been taking (e) places where they are likely to precautionary measures and the be located? strength of Hie Security Forces is readjusted wherever necessary to cover isolated areas. The MiniSter of Defence ProducUOIl (Shri. Raghuramaiah): (a) Yes, Sir. Desai-Bank Award (b) The value of work done for 530. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the Army, Navy, Air Force and for civi- Minister of Labour and Employment lian use during 1960-61 and 1961-62 -De pleased to state: is as follows:-

(a) whether the All India Bank (in crores of rupees) Employees' Association in its four- ~ 19'\1-62 day annual session at Calcutta in (PrOVisional) September this year critised the Desai------Bank Award; and Army 24. 24 33·27 Navy, Air Force, (b) if so, what points were raised MES etc. 1.66 2·55 in this regard and what is Govern- Civil Trade (including ment's view about these points? Border Roads) 7·21 5·63 'l'he Minister Of Planning and La- bOur and Employment (Shri Gulzari- Total 33. II 41 .45 lal Nanda): (a) Government have not received any formal intimation in (c) Yes, Sir. regard to thf' reported criticism of the Desai AW1rd by the All India Bank Employees' Association at its (d) and (e). Four new factories, annual session held in September one each at Bhandara (Maharashtra) and Chandigarh (Punjab) and two at 1962. Avadi Madras) are already being (b) Does not arise. . set up. ~'A~' ~ 2199 Written Answers KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) ~~~.',

Wage Boards ~1'~~~ ;;.qf ) : ( 'f,' ) ;q'lft 532. J Shri Umanath: (-it 11"1'" I.. 1", H'I L Shri S. M. Banerjee: ~

Will the Minister of Labour and ~ ~~~ I Employment be pleased to state: ( if ) qcfJfR wmr it w 'fiTlt (a) whether a decision has since 'fit ~ ~rr ~ I been taken to appoint Wage Boards for some more industries; Army Officer's Wife in U.S.I.S. (b) if so, what ar" those industries; -and r Shri A. K. Gopalan: 534. ~ Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: (c) when the Wage Boards are L Shri Nambiar: likely to be constituted? Will the Prime Minister be pleased The Minister of Planning and to state: Labour and Employment (Shri GuI- u.rilal Nanda): (a) to (c). The ques- (a) whether the wife of a Major tion is under examination. General has been permitted by Gov- ernment to take job in the Radio Section of the U.S.LS. for broadcasts by the Voice of America; ~~~~'~~ (b) whether the Major General in m ~ fuli question was once the Director of Military Intelligence; and f-it ~ m: (c) if so, whether this has been 11'~ ~ done according to rules or as an exception? The Minister of Defence ProdactioD 'flIT II1'f ~ ~ ~ €. Wffif, (Shri Raghuramaiah): (a) Yes.

Hq it ~ ~ ~ ~~~ it (b) Yes. ~ it ~ it ~ iIC!l# 4T o;m: 0 ~ 0 ~ 'fit ~~ '~~r HostileNagas ~'w~~1 ~ it ful1: ~ fir<;r iT

~ lift lIT, T ~ lDlT-qv;r '" ~r state: ;;nW; ~ (a) whether the attention of Gov- ernment has been drawn to the state- h ( if ) lift o;rm ~ W 'f>T1f it ment of Mr. Kheiya, a Councillor in the meeting of the Interim Body of m ~ ~ T11<'!T ~ ~ NagaJand, that big groups of hostile ~~ fl1Wt

(b) if so, how far the hostiles still An amount of Rs. 12,41,100 remained. constitute a danger to the peace of unspent against the final allocation the area? of Rs, 1,04,31,400.

The Prime Minister and Minister of (b) All major development schemes External Affairs, Defence and Atomic were taken up for implementation Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): but funds could not be utilised in full (a) and (b). During the autumn ses- due to the shortage of technical staff sion of the Interim Body of Nagaland, and othei' administrative difficulties. Shri Kheiya, a member of the Interim (c) Government Departments con- Body, stated that the hostiles were cerned with development work have getting active again in his area i.c. been reorganized as Directorates and the southern Angami area of the special efforts are being made to Kohima District. recruit technical staff and overcome Intensive patrolling by Security other difficulties to ensure better uti- Forces and Village Guards was car- lisation of funds in the future. ried out as a result of which two \. arms were surrendered and one rifle Delhi Employment ;'xchange wa's captured and some arrests of hostiles were made, 537 J Shri N. Sreekantan Nair: . L Shri Warior: The area is now pe3cefuL Will the Minister of Labour and Employment be pleased to state: Development of Nagaiand (a) the total number of employees 536 J Shri Daji: of Cla<, III and Class IV who have . L Shri Indrajit Gupta: been recruited to the Central Gov- Will the Prime Minister be pleased ernment services through the Delhi to state: Employment Exchange during each of the years from 1956 to 1961; and (a) whether it is a fact that large amounts of development funds allo- (b) whether Class III and Class IV cated to Nagaland remained unspent employees were recruited during these during 1961-62; years through any other Employment (b) what major items were so left Exchange in any other part of the over; and country.

(C) what steps are being taken for The Minister of Planning and the better utilisation of the funds in Labour and Employment (Shri Gul- future? zarilal Nanda): (a) and (b), Infor- mation for the period asked for is not The Prime Minister and Minister of available. However, figures for the External Affairs, Defence and Atomic last twelve months are available and Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) are given below:-

No. of Central Government vacancies filled by Delhi Exchange during November, 1961 to October, 1962 Class of Post From applicants regis- From applicants registered tered at Delhi at other Exchanges Total

Class III Class IV 40 2203 Written Answers KARTlKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Written Answers

Indian Soldiers Killed in Katanga iand near a r~ city would gradual- ly have to be acquired for the exten- 538. Shri Yashpal Singh: Will the sion of that city and industries, it Prime Minister be pleased to state: might be better to vary the Master (a) whether two Indian soldiers Plan somewhat and to acquire banjar were killed by a mine explosion in land and leave the good land for agri- Katanga on the 25th September, cultural purposes. The local autho- 1962: and rities connected with the Delhi Master Plan were also apprised of the Prime· (b) if so, the details of the inci- Minister's views. Originally it was· dent? proposed to acquire about 34,000 The Minister of Defence Production acres of land but subsequently on (8hri Raghuramaiah): (a) Two further consideration it was reduced Indian Army Ocher Ranks were kil- to about 6,000 acres. The Chief' led in a mine explosion in Elisabeth- Minister, U.P, has since sent a detail- ville on 24th September, 1962 (and ed reply and while explaining why it not on 25th September 1962 as cuted has become necessary to acquire in the Question). 6159 acres of agricultural land in 22 villages for planned and regulated (b) On 24-9;1962 at about 0915 development of the Ghaziabad region, hours a routine patrol of our contin- has assured that the State Govern- gent. consisting of one Junior Com- ment are anxious to avoid any hard- mis3ioned Officer and 13 Other Ranks, ships to agriculturists and that they \'las returning to base on the comple- shall try to accommodate them as far tion of its task through thick scrub as possible. when an anti-personnel mine \'veni off resulting in the death of two Passports Other Ranks and injuries to one Junior Commis3ioned Officer and three Ot!1Cr Ranks. This was the first time 540. Shri D. N. Tiwary: Will the that a mine had been encountered in Prime Minister be pleased to state the areas patrolled by U.N. the number of applications received and passports issued month-wise since Land Acquisition f();· Delhi Master April, 1962? Plan 539. Shri D. :-I. Tiwary: Will the The Prime Minister and Minister of Prime Minister be pleased to state: External Mairs, Defence and Atomic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): A (a) whether it is a fact that in the staement is laid on the Table of the last week of August he met a large House. number of Kisans from Meerut and Bulandshahr led by two Members. of STATEMENT Lok Sabha and heard their grievances about the acquisitions of land for Delhi Master Plan; and Month No. of applica- No. of passports. of year tions received granted (b) whether he has sent any sug- ._------April 60II gestions or directions, hopeful to the 5348 May Kisans to the proper authorities? 7066 6188 JUDe 7660 6182 The Prime Minister and Minister of July 5336 5335 External Mairs, Defence and Atomic August 4431 516 7 Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) Septembe' 4539 4552 and (b). Yes. The Prime Minister October 3437 3467 after listening to the grievances of the Kisans, wrote to the Chief Minister, Total: 38480 36239 U.P. that while it was inevitable that ------... --- WTitten AnsWeTS NOVEMBER 19, 1962 2206

Factory Inspectorate in Tripura ( 'F ) 'f!IT 11(! Wif ~ f'!; m+rr ~ 541. Sbri Biren Dutia: Will the ~ if; m if '1.Jn:IOf ~ ~ ~ 'T ~ (a) whether it is a fact that a com- mittee has 'been appt>inted to go '''1~ through the working md service con- ditions of the staff artistes in All India Radio; (b) if so, whether the Ccmmittee has submitted any report; and (c) if so, what are the recommenda- tions of the Committee? The Deputy Minister in the Ministry fuqr@ of JDformation and Broadcasting (Sbri ~~~ Sham Nath): (a) to (e). A com- mittee has been appointed recently !f:Rl (!'¥IT ~ ~ but its report has not yet been receiv- ed. ~~~~

~r'r (N1 Y.¥1I • ...n ~ ~ 'f!IT sr~ ( 'f ) 'FTlf orit [C!: ~ ~ ~ ;fr 'f'1T ~ f'!; : ~~''~ ~ 2207 Written Answers KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Written Answers 2208

~ '~~ I ~~~~ ( e) whether any cultural agreerr. ent has been signed with the Mission? ~r~~~ ~~~~ The Prime Minister aJUI Minister of Extemal Affairs, Defence and Atomic ~~~~~r~3~ Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nebm): (a) ('I» if ~ 'l# rrr~ ~ ~ Yes, Sir.

tim f.m<:rr lfln" \!fT I (b) This Mission visited Delhi, Agra and Bhakra and Nangal Darns. (oq) im1 ~

544. 8hri Yashpal Singh: Will the Ex-Servicemen of Goa Prime Minister be pleased to state: r Shri P. K. Ghose: (a) the progress made in the cons- 546. ~ Shri Kapur Singh: truction of Mine Sweepers, 150 men L 8hri Indrajit Gupta: Ferry Craft and three Pontoons for berthing the Air Craft Carrier, orders Will the Prime Minister be plE:ased for which were placed with Messrs. to state: Mazagon Dock, Bombay; and (a) whether it is a fact that the ex- (b) estimated time to be taken in servicemen of Goa have sublT'itted a the completion of the order? memorandum to the "fl'ect 1hat em- ployment on the s,arne conditions as The Minister of Defence Production before liberation be prflvided to them; (Shri Raghuramaiah): (a) and (bl. While the progress made in respect of (b) if so, why alternative employ- all the items indicated is satisfactory, ment has not been provided to them it is not in the public interest to dis- so lar; and "lose the details. (c) the action proposed to be takE!1l Korean Cultural Mission by Government in the matter? r Shri Bishanchander Seth: The Prime Minister and Minister of 545. ~ Shri Rameshwar Tantla: External Affairs, Defence anol Atomie L Shri Sham La} Saraf: Energy (Shri Jawaharla} Nehru): (a). Yes, Sir. Will the Prime Minister be pleased to state: (b) Government have considered the representat;on of the G<>an ex-service- (,a) whether it is fact that the men and efforts have been made to r~ Cultural Mission visited India secure alternative employment for during September, 1962; them with Government. Some Goan (b) if so, the names of thO' places ex-servicemen have been abrorbed by they visited; the Customs, Police and other Govern- ment departments. 141 Goan ex-ser- (c) whether it is also a fact that vicemen have joined the Police Train- they have requested India to send a ing School recently established in Goa. similar mission to Korea; Government have made "ffers or appointment to thO' Indian Army to all (d) if so, whether Government have other unemployed ..x_servicemen who accepted the invitation; and are physically fit. 2209 Written Answers NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Written Answers 2210

~ CivHian Clerks Association At the invitation of the British Gov- ernment a contingent of 61st Cavalry r '5hri Y. D. Singh: participated in the ~ Military 547 . ..: Shri P. Venkatasubbaiah: Tatoo in August-September 1962. Sliri A. K. Gopalan: r (c) Not so far. Will the Prime Mini,ter be pleased (d) No, Sir. to state: U.N. Assistance to India (a) whether it is a fact that the All Shri Sham Lal Saraf: India Defence ~ Clerk; Asso- r 549. ~ Shri Rameshwar Tantia: ciation wh;ch represents 8,OGO civilian clerks ern!lloyed in lower fO!"lllations l Shri Basumatari: under the Defence Ministry has com- Will the Prime Minister be pleased plained that its members have remain- to state: ",d stagnant for the last 3 to 12 years and have no incentive of further pro- (a) in What way India is being motion and earning of annual incre- helped and assisted in its development ment: bv the Wo,-ld Organisation with the ~r of thc r~ decade as (b) whether the AssociaEon has the "Development Decade" by the sug!,ested ~ Governrrent should ex- United Nations; and olore the possibility of Utiilslilg the (b) whether assistance on the part ~rs of their members either in of the United Nations will be helpful new expanding departments or in in increasing the industrial and agri- other offices; and cultural output so as to enable this (c) if so, the decision token by the country to earn more by way of national and per capita incomes: rr~ in this regard? The Minister of Defence Production The Prime Minister and Minister of (Shri Raghuramaiah): (a) to (c). A External Affairs, Defence 'and Atomic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehn!): r;;) representation on the subject has been The General A5s~'' Resolu: ~~~ on received rcoently. Thi, is now under the "the United ~' De',·('}r.:"nent cl)n<;deration. Decade-a programme for interna- Edinburgh Military Tatoo tional economic cooperation-" calls upon the members of the United f Shri Indrajit Gupta: Nations to pursue policies and adopt 548. l Shri Daji: measures which would assist the under- Will the Prime Minister be pleased developed countries to attain a subs- to state: tantial increase in the rate of their growth, taking as the objective a mini- (a.l whether a detachment of the mum annual income of 5 per cent at 61st Cavalry took part in the recent the end of the decade. The resolu- Edinburgh military tatoo; tion also requests the Secretary- General to prepare the necessary do- (b) the nature of their participation; cumentation and develop proposals in (c) whcther detachments of Indian consultation with appropriate agencies armed forces take part in military for the necessary development pro- tatoos or similar functions in any grammes. The designation of the· foreign countries other than the U.K.; present decade as "the Development and Decade" thus envisages intensillcation and co-ordination of the various acti- (d) whether the arrangements with vities undertaken by the United the U.K. are on a reciprocal basis? Nations. The Minister of Defence Production (b) Yes, Sir. It is toe. early to say, (Shri. Raghuramalah): (a) and {b). however whether the efforts Wlder- 22II Writtpn AnsweTS KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Written Answers 22I2 taken by the United Nations in colla- health of service personnel in military boration with various agencies and environments, at high altitudes and in governments will have the desired arid zones. result of increasing the growth of ag- (c) Estimated recurring and capital gregate national income by a minimum expenditure for the Institute would be of 5 per cent. approximately Rs. 3.4 Lakhs and Institute of Flight Science Rs. 52 Lakhs respectively.

550. Shri P. K. Deo: Will the Gun and Shell Factory, Cossepore Prime Minister be pleased to state: 552. Shrimati : (a) whether an Institute of Flight Will the Prime Minister be pleased to Science is being established by the refer to the reply given to Unstarred Defence Research and Development; Question No. 1393 on the 21st August, 1962 and state what steps Govern- (b) if so, where it will be located ment are taking to build new quar- and what activities it will carryon; ters, or to rebuild new type quarters in the old Dumdum estate barracks (c) the composition of staff for the for the workmen of the Gun and Institute; and Shell Factory, Cossepore, inclusive of (d) total capital and recurring ex- the Dumdum branch and allied Ins- penditure for this institute? pectorate of Armaments Establish- ment? The Minister of Defence Production (Shri Raghuramaiah): (a) to (d). The Minister of Defence Productio. The proposal to establish such an Ins- iShri Raghuramaiah): A plan for titute for Advancement of Flight the construction of 144 Type I and 90 Sciences and Technology is under Type II quarters for the workers in examination of the Government. An questiOn is being examined. ad hoc experts cOfllillittee has been appointed to work out the details of the scheme, including the question of Controller of Emigrant Labour its location. functions, composition of 553 J 3hri Sham La! Saraf: staff and financial requirement. The . l Shri Rameshwar Tantia: comr"·'.tr::.' is currently engaged on the task. Will the Prime Minister be pleased to state:

Institute of Physiology (a) whether since the setting up of the organisation of 'Controller of 551. Shri P. K. Deo: Will the Prime Emigrant Labour' the movement of Minister be pleased to state: labour out of the country is regL,lated (a) whether an Institute of Physio- and controlled; and logy is going to be set up in Madras (b) whether since Its formation by the Defence Research and Develop- there is no overflow of labour in the ment Establishment; countries they usually go in search of (b) what will be its functions; and work?

(c) the recurring and capital expen- The Prime Minister and MiBister of diture estimated fOr this Institute? ExterDa.l Mairs, Defence and Atomic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) The Minister of 'Defence PrOductton Yes, Sir. (Shri Raghuramaiah): (a) Yes Sir. The movement of labour (lut of the (b) To undertake research in various country, both for skilled and unskill- fields of Physiology as applied to the ed work, is regulated under the Indian Armed Forces. such as problems con- Emigration Act 1922 (Act No. VII of cerning the efficiency, comfort and 1922), and the rules made thereunder, 2213 Written Answers NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Written Answers 2214

by the Protectors of Emigrants of spe- (a) whether Planning Commission cified Indian ports under the general has started submitting quarterly re- direction of the Controller General port about the implementation of the of Emigration, who exercises the Third Five Year Plan; functions of the Central Government under the Act. (b) if so, when the first quarterly report was submitted; (b) Yes, overflow is checked. (c) what are the main findings; and smmn ~~ ~~ (d) if the reply to part (a) above ~~~ be in the negative, whether the delay in submitting quarterly report is due lI.lI.'(. ~ ~ ~ '~~~ to lethargy of State Governments in submitting their reports? ~~ 1~ ~~'~ ij; ~ ~ The Deputy Minister of Planning and ~ ~~3 ij; ~ ij; ~ if ~ Labour and Employment (Shri C. R. ifflf.t 'lit ~ m f.t; ~ ~ if Pattabhi Raman): (,a) and (b). Quar- ~~11r~~ terly progress reports for official use have been prepared in the Planning ~~ 'lit ~' ~ 'fiT m 1~ Commission since the beginning of the P"oq I '.1 e(j '1 ~ ~ 'R 'flIT ~ j";'fPl

Police Training School in Goa 555. Shri Bishanchander Se1.h: Will the Prime Minister be pleased to lI.lI.lS. 15ft ~ m: 'fl:TT ~ state: Ii,fi llf: ff.r'I; ~ ~A' ij; ~ '1it llTcT" 'fiT 1fi1t ;p:rr ~ m?pf

srftomn ~ lim (1I1i ~~ In addition, technicians from the United Kingdom, France and U.S.S.R ('ti) ~ ~ I also paid visits in connection with mainte!1ance of LA.F. equipment (lil) 'lrulT rn., '1fT ¥nJ ll''if0<'!' obtained from these countries. fir.zrr tf1n m-<: ;ffi miTT it ~1 if; t, There were two goodwill missions f.!flffl ~ ~r' citil<'!'I"1 ~ ~ 560. ~ Priya Gupta: Will the if; ~ ~ if; l:Ilffif /frill w-i- Prime Minister be pleased to state: ~1 '1» ~ f.;pn- OWJ:, f;m it ~ (a) the estimated extent of increase ~ it ij;Tlf if; 'T'lCT if; mr.r it, ~ in rural income per capita in 1961-62; and it ~ "l i2 ~ l!fm1'111 R"1T (b) According to the 'quick' esti- mates of national income released re- ~~'r I cently by the Central Statistical Visit of Foreign Army Ofticers Organisation, the per capita income at 1948-49 prices works out at Rs. 292:5 559. Shri Yashpal Singh: Will the for the year 1961-62, which does not Prime Minister be pleased to state: show any rise or fall over the pre- (a) how many foreign teams of vious year. experts or individual army officers and Radio Relay Station at Coimbatore from which countries visited our Air 561. Shri Sezhiyan: Will the Min- Force installations and training estab- lishments during the period from 1957 ister of Information and Broadcasting to 1962; and be pJeased to state: (a) the progres made so far in the (b) what was the purpose of their erection of a Medium Wave Trans- visit? mitter at Coimbatore; The Minister of Defence Prodnction (b) the K.W. power of the Trans- (Shri Raghuramaiab): (a) and (b). mitter; and Altogether 62 such teams and foreign (c) when it is expected to be com- dignitaries visited LA.F. s~ missioned? and training establishments ciuring the years 1957 to 1962 from 17 countries, The Deputy Minister in the Minis- namely, Australia, Burma, China, try of Information and Broadcasting Canada, France,' Indonesia, Iran, (Shri Sham Nath): (a) to (c). A Malaya, Pakistan, Philippines, Sweden, Medium-wave transmiter of-l0 KW Thailand, U.A.R., United Kingdom, power is proposed to be installed at U.S.A., U.S.S.R. and West Germany. Coimbatore. Preliminary action re- garding selection of site has been The purpose of these visits was taken. The installation is expected either formal or an expression of in- to be completed during the c0i'rse of terest in the I.A.F.'s achievements. the next two years. :'2217·, NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Reports of Tariff 2218 • Commission 12.00 hrs. If it has been made. I hope it does not need reminder from me or RE: MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT a a directive from you again. AND CALLING ATTENTION NOTICES !\Olr. Speaker: There is no need for Mr. Speaker: I have received a issuing any new directive every day. 'notice of an adjournment motion as The Government will take notice of well as calling-attention notices from it. several hon. Members. Because the calling-attention notices are also from the same han. Members, I will allow these to be answered. The han. Prime REPORTS OF TARIFF COMMISSION Minister would make a statement at The Minister of Supply in the Min- 12.30 P.M. istry of Economic and Defence Co- ordination (Shri Hathi): Sir, on be- half of Shri ManubhaiShah, I beg to lay on the Table a copy each of the PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE following papers under sub-section (2) of section 16 of the ~r Com- , NOTIFICATION UNDER ARTICLE 359 OF THE mission Act, 1951:- CONSTITUTION (i) (a) Report (1962) of the Tariff The Minister of State in the Minis- Commission on the continu- try of Home AJlairs (Shri Datar): Sir, ance of protection to the on behalf of Shri Lal Bahadur Sheet Glass Industry. Shastri, I beg to lay on the Table a copy of Notification No. G.S.R. 1510 (b) Government Resolution No. dated the 11th November, 1962, under 14(21-TRj62 dated the 16th clause (3) of article 359 of the Cons- November, 1962 (together with titution, publishing an amendment to its Hindi version). Order No. G.S.R. 1464 dated the 3rd November, 1962, issued by the Pre- (c) Statement explaining the rea· sons why a copy each of the sident under clause (1) of the said documents at (a) and (b) article. [Placed in Library, See No. above could not be laid on the LT-534/62]. Table within the period pres- cribed in the s~s Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath (Hosha- [Placed in Library. See No. ngabad): Sir, it is welcome that the LT-535/62.] hon. Minister has implemented your directive and is placing the orders of (ii) (a) Report (1962) of the Tariff the President on the Table of the Commission on the continu- 'Sabha, but in this connectior, may I ance of protection to the also invite your attention and the Plastics (Phenol Formaldehyd attention of the House to article 354 Moulding Powder) Industry. of the Constitution. I do not know whether orders have .been passed (b) Government Resolution No. under that provision also and if orders 27(1)-TR/62 dated the 16th .'have been passed under article 354 November, 1962 (together with ,then clause (2) of that article requires its Hindi version. [Placed in :that-- • Library. See No. LT-536/62].

"Every order made under clause (iii) (a) Report (1962) of the Tariff (1) shall, as soon as may be after Commission on the continu- it is made, be laid before each ance of protection to the Ball House of Parliament." Bearing Indust.ry. r '" ~ , 2219 Reports of Tariff KARTlKA 28, 18S. (SAKA) Empl '~r ~ Commission dent Funds \' . ~ '. ment) Bm (b) Government Resolution No. the flood situation in the country. 18(i)-TR/62 dated the 16th [Placed in Library. See No. LT-540/ November, 1962 (together with 62.] its Hindi version). [Placed in Library. See No. 537/62]. ANNUAL REPORT OF FILM FINANCE AND GoVERNMENT REVIEW THEREON

(iv) (a) Report (1962) of the Tariff The Deputy MInIster in the Ministr7 Commission on the continu- of Finance (Shri B. R. Bhagat): Sir, I ance of protection to the N on- beg to lay on the Table a copy each Ferrous Metals Industry. of the following papers:-

(b) Government Resolution No. (i) Annual Report of the Film 22(1)-TR/62 dated the 16th Finance Corporation Limited, November, 1962 (together with Bombay, for the year 1961-62 its Hindi rs~ alongwith the Audited Ac- counts and the comments of (c) Notification No. 22(1)-T.R/62- the Comptroller and Auditor I dated the 16th November General thereon, under sub- 1962 issued under sub-section section (1) of section 619A of (1) of section 3A of the said the Companies Act, 1956. Act (together with its Hindi version). (ii) Review by the Government on the working of the above (d) Notification No. 22(1)-T.R.j62- Corporation. [Placed in Lib- II dated the 16th November, rary. See No. LT-541/62]. 1962 issued under sub-section (1) of section 4 of the said Act (together with its Hindi ver- sion). MESSAGE FROM RAJYA SABRA Secretary: Sir, I have to report the (e) Statement explaining the rea- following message received from the sons why a copy each of the Secretary of Rajya Sabha:- documents at a), (b), (c) and (d) above could not be laid "In accordance with the provi- on the Table within the period sions of rule 97 of the Rules of prescribed in the said sub- Procedure and Conduct of Busi- section. [Placed in Library. ness in the Rajya Sabha, J am dir- See No. LT-538/62]. ected to enclose a copy of the Employees' Provident Funds (Am- ANNUAL ACCOUNTs OF EMPLOYEES' endment) Bill, 1962, which has STATE INSURANCE CORPORATION been passed by the Rajya Sabha at its sitting held on the 15th Shri Hathi: Sir, I beg to lay on the November, 1962." Table a copy of the Annual Accounts of the Employees' State Insurance Cor- poration for the year 1960-61 together EMPLOYEES' PROVIDENT FUNDS with Audit Report thereon, under sec- (AMENDMENT) BILL tion 36 of the Employees' State nsur- ance Act, 1948. [Placed in Library. LAID ON THE TABLE AS PASSED BY RAJYA See No. LT-539/62]. SABHA

STATEMENT QN FLOoD SITUATION Sir, I lay on the Table of the House the Employees' Provident Funds (A m- The Minister of Irrigation and Power endment) . Bill, 1962, ag passed by (Ilaftz Mohammad Ibrahim): Sir, I beg Rajya Sabha. to lay on the Table a statement. on 2140 (Ai) LS.-3 2221 NOVEMBER 19, 1962 AU India Services 2222 (Amendment) Bit! 12;03 hrs. leave to introduce a Bill further to amend the State Bank of India Act, PONDICHERRY (ADMINSTRATION) 1955, the State Bank of India (Subsi- BILL" diary Banks) Act, 1959, and the Bankers' Books Evidence Act, 1891, and The Minister of State in the Minis- to provide for the winding up of try of External Affairs (Shrimati certain minor State-aiOsociated banks Lakshmi Menon): Sir, on behalf of and for matters connected therewith. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru, I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill to pro- Mr. Speaker: The question is: vide for the administration of Pond i- cherry and for matter cc.nnected there- "That leave be granted to intro- with. duce a Bill further to amend the State Bank of India Act, 1955, the Mr Speaker: The question is: State Bank of India (Subsidiar:r Banks) Act, 1959. and the Bankers' "That leave be granted to intro- Books Evio/nce Act, l8fH, and to duce a Bill to provide for the ad- provide for the winding up of ministration of Pondicherry and certain minor State-assccld.ted for matter connected then'with." banks and for matters connected therewith." The motion was adopted. The moti01l W'lS adopted. Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: Sir, I Shri Morarji Deasi: Sir, I introduce introducet the Bi'1. the Bill

12;03 hrs. STATEMENT REGARDING PONDI- 12;04 hrs. CHERRY (ADMlNISTRATION) OR- DINANCE ALL-INDIA SERVICES (AMEND- MENT) BILL' Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: Sir, I beg to lay on the Table a copy of the ex- The Minister of "')me Affairs (Sltri planatory statement giving reasons LaI Bahadur Shastri): Sir, I beg to for immediate legislation by the PondL move for leave to introduce a Bill fur- cherry (Administration) OTdin3nce, ther to amend the All-India Services 1962 (No.8 of 1962) as required undec Act, 1951. Rule 71 (1) of the Rules of Procedure and Condut of Business in Lok Sahha. !\Olr Speaker: The question is: [Placed in Library. See No. LT-557/ 62]. "That leave be granted to in- troduce a Bill further to amend t!le All-India Services Act, 1951." 12.03 hrs. The motion was adopted. STATE-ASSOCIATED BAm.;:S (MIS- Shri LaI Bahadur ~r Sir, ELLANEOUS PRO,-ISIOKS) BILL' in troduce the Bill. The Minister of Finance (Shri Mor- arji Desai): Sir, I beg to move:;r ·Published in the Gazette c< India Extraordinary Part II Section 2, dated 19-11-62. tIntroduced with the recommendation of the President. 2223 KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Foreigners Law 2224 (Application an•• A.mendment) Bill 12.04 hrs On behalf of Shri , I beg to move: WORK.MEN'S COMPE..c"lSATION "That the apply the Re- (AMENDMENT) BILL- Bill to gistration of Foreigners ACt, 1939 The Minister of Supp'y in the Min- and the Foreigners Act 1946 to istry of Economic and Defence Co- certain persons to whom they do ordination (Shri Hathi): Sir, on ~ not at present apply and further of Shri Nanda, I beg to move for leave to amend the Foreigners Act, to introduce a Bill furth'-f to amend 1946 be taken into consideration." the Workmen's Ccmpansatioll Act, The amendment of these two Acts 1923. has been necessitated by the declara- Mr. Sp"lker: The qucstion is: tion of the emergency. As the House is aware, these two Acts had been "That leave be r'~ to in- in force during the last war. There- troduce a Bill further to amend after also, the main provisions have the WorKmen's Compensation Act, been in force. But when the Constitu- ]923.') tion was introduced in 1950, certain difficulties arose. Under the provi- The motion was adopted. sions of one of those Acts, it was open to the Government to intern or Shri Hathi: Sir, I introdllce the Bill. to arrest and detain a person on cer- tain grounds mentioned in one of those Acts. Now, when the Constitu- tion was in trod uced, a difficulty arose, 12.05 hrs. namely that a person could be arrest- INDIAN TARIFF (AMENDMENT) ed or could be detained without trial only. under certain conditions laid BILL" down in the Constitution. That was The Minister of Incernatiollal trade the reason why the particular pro- in the Ministry of Commer('c and In- vision in one of those Act3 could not dustry (Shri Manubhai Shah): I be ava:laed Of and actually it lapsed, beg to move far leave to 'ntroduce a That is circumstance which also has Bill further to amend the Indian to be taken 'nto account. Thereafter, Tariff Act, 1934. as the House is aware, immediately after the passing of the Constitution, Mr. Speaker: The question is: steps had to be taken for the ~ "That leave be granted to in- duction of and passing the Preventive troduce a Bill further to amend Detention Act. That Act has been ex- the Ind .. . . :Act. 1934", tended from time to t'me. It makes provision in a general way for arrest The motion WlLS adopted. and detention Of certain persons on certain conditions without a regular Shri Manubhai Shah: introuce trial. The difficulty that at present the Bill. has ar'sen is that the elaborate pro- visions or the Preventive Detention Act could not be applied to those FOREIGNERS LAW (APPLICATION cases with which we have to deal AND AMENDME!'fT) BlLL during the emergency, Therefore, it was considered necessary that for The Minister of State in the Min- arrest and detention, some other pro- istry of Home Affairs (Shri Datar): visions of a more or less summary na-

'Published in the Gazette of India Extraordinary Part II Section 2, ~ 19-11_1962. FOTeigneTs Law NOVEMBER 19, 1962 (Application and Am.mdment) Bill [Shri Datar] Therefore, the problem with whicn ture as they originally existed in one we are now concerned is what to do of those Acts should be introduced. with these persons who have constitu_ One of the obiects 0( the present am- tionally 'become citizens of India, but endment is to re-introduce in this Act whose loyalty to the original country the provisions relat;ng to arrest and has also to be taken into account, detention which naturally means in- because it is likely to react adversely ternment. An hon. Member has sug- upon the security of the Indian na- gested that there ought to be an am- tion. endment so far as internment is c0n- cerned. But, I should like to point That is the reason why you would out to him that in this case, the word find that here thp. definition of the detention includes internment. There- expression 'foreigner' has been ampli- fore, the purpose of that amendment fled, and I would invite your atten- has also been covered. One of the tion to clause 2 of this Bill. It reads objects thus is to re-introduce the thus: provisions regarding arrest and de- tention without going through the el- ''Notwithstanding anyth'ng con- aborate provisions of the Preventive tained in any other law for the Detention Act. This is point No. 1. tome being in force, the provi' sions of the Registration of The other point which is of a more Foreigners Act, 1939, and the important nature is regarding amplifi- Foreigners Act, 1946 . eation of the definition of the word 'foreigner'. You are aware that the ~w themselves, these two Acts word 'foreigner' has been defined in deal with all the questions includir.g certain respects and action can be the registration and the regulation of taken a,gainst a foreigner. But, cer- the conduct of these persons- tain complications naturally have arisen. After the declaration of and of t.ho" rules and emergency, we have to be extremely orders made thereunder shall ap- eareful about those Who had been ply to ..." originally Chinese nationals but who have subsequently taken or have be- -- and these words might be parti- oome citizens of India. In this con- cularIy noted- nection, I would invite the attention of the hon. House to certain prov;- " .. and in relation to any person ~s of the Constitution and also the who or either of whose parents, Indian Citizenship Act. So far as the Or any of whose grand-parents Constitution is concerned, under arti- was at any time a citizen or sub- cle 5, it was open to some of those ject of any country at war with. persons by reason of their domicile to or committing external aggression become Indian citizens. Therefore, against, India or of an.v other under article 5, a number of such country assisting the country at Chinese persons who have been resid- war with, or oommitting such ing in India for a number of years aggression against, India, as they and Who are governed by article 3 apply to and in relation to forp.i- fIIf the Constitution have become gners as defined for the purposes Indian citizens. of those Acts ....

Then, there are a few cases where Thus, yOU will find in shert that the after the passing of the Indian Citi- object of the present amendment i,. 2enship Act where either by registra- ta treat such persons as foreigners tion or by naturalisation, a few for the purpose of taking necessary Chinese have become Indian citizens. action against them under the fore!g- Foreigners Law KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) (Application and 222g Amendment) Bit! ners' laws. So far as these persons Therefore, so far as this position ia are concerned, they can be categoris- concerned, principally it applies to ed, apart from those who come under Chinese today, especially those Chi- the general expression 'foreginers', as nese who have become nationals of those wQo have become Indian India whose conduct will have to be nationals, but who themselves or regulated in the interest of the safety whose parents or grand-parents had and security of the nation. That is been of Chinese origin. As a result thE' reason why under the provisiona -of the provision of the Constitution, of the proposed Bill it has been decid- as I pointed out, some of them might ed to extend or amplify the definition have become Indian nationals. A few of the expression 'foreigner' to such -of them have become Indian citizens persons as well so that for the purpose either by naturalisation or by regis- of taking action against foreigners un- tration. der the law relating to them they will also be included in that category. With regard to all these persons, it becomes necessary that their conduct Further action is made clear in has to be regulated, and wherever clause 3 itself. So far as clause 3 was necessary, they have to be properly concerned, formerly, as I pointed out, controll ed. That is the reason why on in view of the provisions of the Cons- account of the constitutional pasition titution, they could not be arrested attached to these persons, it has be- and detained without trial. For that come necessary, during the emer- purpose, the Preventive Detention Act gency of the war in particular, to also was passed. But there the pro- treat these ~rss for all intents and visions were fairly elaborate. Cer- purposes as foreigners, so that neces- tain special steps have to be taken and sary action can be taken against them these steps might not be proper SO for the purpose of arrest and deten- far as the present emergency is con- tion. cerned. That is the reason why power has been sought for the pur- Under the Preventive Detention pose of arresting and detaining or Act, there was a reference to the COnfining any foreigner including a arrest of such persons, but such arrest foreigner who comes under clause 2 of could be only for the purpose of de- the Bill. porting them. After the declaration of emergency, there is no question of deporting these persons. That is the Further, provisions have to be made reason why the definition of the term for the purpose of interning them in 'foreigner' has been sufficiently ampli- a special camp or under certain other fied SO that all such Chinese nationals arrangements. That has been made would be included even though they clear in clause 3(b) (i): have become the citizens of India. Advantage has also been taken to "Any foreigner (hereinafter re- make the definition as comprehensive ferred to as an internee) in res- as possible so ~ to meet future con- pect of whom there is in force any tingencies. For that purpose, I would order made under clause (g) of invite your attention to the further sub-section (2) of section 3, words in this clause, namely: directing that he be detained or c .,nfined, shall be detained or "or of any other country assist- cCl1fined in such place and manner ing the country at war with, or and subject to such conditions as committing such aggression to maintenance, discipline and the against, India, as they apply to punishment of offences and and in relation to foreigners as de- hreaches of discipline as the Cen- fined for the purposes of those tral Government may from lim.. Acts.... to time by order determiDe". 2229 Foreigners Law NOVEMBER 19, 1962 2230 (Appl[cation and Amendment) Bm [Shri Datar) 12,19 hrs. Then the definition regarding penal provision in regard to assisting an STATEMENT ON SITUATION IN internee have been made further NEFA AND LADAKH clear. We had already a definition, but it has been made further clear in Mr. Speaker: Here the Prime view of the present emergency. Minister might make the statement that he had to make independently of "No person shall knowingly any notice that was received. But I assist an internee or a person on have said that I will take up that parole to escape from custody or notice also, so that statement might the place set apart for his resi- contain other facts also, not in res- dence, or knowingly harbour an ponse to this notice. Therefore, we escaped internee or person or will hear the Prime s~r and parole or give an escaped internee then I will take up this notice. or person on parole any assis- tance. " Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: You said the notice had been admitted. In clause 4, arrangements have been made regarding access to such camps 1I1i'. Speak£r: did nO, say it had where these persons will have to be not been allowed. kept. This is only more or less by way of clarifying what has been done in Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath May I the Ordinance. As you are aware, an read the notice? Ordinance had to be issued in this respect. and the present Bill has been Mr. Speaker: Let the statement be brought forward in accordance gene- nnd2. I will take that up if some- rally with the provisions of the Ordi- thing addit'onal has to be got. because nance. it is on specific points. and the Prime Minister wanted to make a statement These are the provisions of the Bill, independently of that. so far as the definition of the expres- sion 'foreigner' is concerned, so far as the power to arrest, detain or confine The Prime Minister, Minister of a person is concerned; even those per- ExternQI Affairs, Defence and Atomic sons of the categorv I have explain- Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): Mr. ed, :.viii have to bc' confined, when it Speaker, Sir, I have to give grievous becomes necessary, in the interest of news to this House. Bo1!h Walong and the security of India. For that pur- the Sela ridge in NEFA have fallen pose, they have to be treated on the to the enemy. In the Chushul area same footing as foreigners. ugh ling is proceeding.

I move. In Walong, the enemy attacked on the 15thl16th night. This was a two- Mr. Speaker: Motion moved: pronged attack. The battle continued till the morning of the 17th. The enemy succeeded in shelling this air "That the Bill to apply the Re- field, which was the only source of gistration of Foreigners Act, 1939, supply to our forces. In the 17th :nd the Foreigners Act, 1946, to afternoon, our troops started with- certain persons to whom they do drawing to defensive positions in the not at present apply and further rear. to amend the Foreigners Act, 1946, be taken into consideration". In the Jung area, the enemy attack- ed our positions on the 17th Novem- ber. Their attack was repulsed four 2231 Statement on KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Situation in NEFA 2232 and Ladakh times.. Ultimately there was an Slhri Hari Vishnu Kamath (Hoshan- attack in greater strength, and this gabad); I am sure the House is dis- Jung position had to be given up. tressed and shocked beyond measure Our troops fell back to the main to hear of this most calamitous re- position at Sela. In the meantime, verse since October 20. Our gallant the enemy bypassed our main post by jawans are being killed and taken a wide flanking movement between prisoner in their thousands. Sela and Bomdila. They attacked in the early hours of the 18th Novem- The former Defence Minister, on ber, and cut the road between Sela the eve of his resignation, stated in and Bomdila. The infiltrators were Bombay or elsewhere, that the posi- forced to withdraw. They formed up tion was that we are not only out- again and renewed the attack. The numbered, but out-weaponed. May I situation is somewhat confused, and ask the Prime Minister whether steps, fighting is going on, but our Com- and vigorous steps, are being taken mander had to withdraw from Sela. now to obtain arms and equipment from all friendly nations on a mas- In the Chushul sector in Ladakh, sive scale and thus allay the wide- heavy artillery attacks were made on spread public apprehensions that our the Chushul air field and the out- armed forces are not yet fully equip- posts. Our post at Rezang La .was ped to meet the enemy? attacked on the 18th morning. After fierce fighting, this post was over- Shri lawaharla1 Nehru: As the whelmed. A part of another post six House knows, every effort is being miles east of Chushul was also made to get arms and other equip- attacked. ment from foreign countries, and we have received some, and they have Other attacks in the Chushul area been immediately sent on to our were repulsed. Fighting is still going forward posts. on. Shri Priya Gupta (Katihar); May I This is bad news. I cannot go into know the extent to which foreign further details at this stage. I should military aid is taken, and whether like to add that in spite of the re- Government have a blueprint for verses suffered by us, we are detpr- further military aid to meet this crisis mined not to give in 'in any way and arising out of the fact that there is a we shall fight the enemy, however reported mutual understanding bet- long it may take to repel him and ween China and the Pakistan Gov- drive him out of our country. ernment to the effect that China would help Pakistan to get Kashmir 8hri Hari Vishnu Kamath: On a and West Bengal and Assam accord- point of clarification. ing to Group C proposal of the Bri- tish Cabinet Mission? Mr. Speaker: I have received, and probably the Prime Minister may have Mr. Speaker: All this question is received, a call attention notice from not relevant here. several hon. Members. That was specific about the fall of Jung to the enemy, and the reportedly precarious position of Chushul. Would the Prime Minister like to say anything more? Mr. Speaker: I have said this ques- tion need not be answered; it cannot Shrl lawaharlal Nehru: I would not be answered. like to say anything beyond wnat I have said. I have referred to both 8hri Priya Gupta: In what way Jung and Chushul. shall I express my feeling Sir? 2233 Statement on NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Situation in NEF A 2234 and Ladakh Mr. Speaker: I cannot enter into an Mr. Speaker: Order, order. He has argument. . . (Interruptions.) put a question and the Prime Minister has said that he has not this informa- Shri Priya Gupta: May I submit tion with him; and that whenever it that the jawans are dying there .. ' '., is got it would be supplied to the House. . . (Interruptions.) Mr. Speaker: Order, order. He should now resume his seat ...... (Interruptions.) Dr. Singhvi has not ~ ~~~ q'1q't liven his name. I cannot change the ~~~~~ .•• procedure .... (Interruptions.) Order, Orde. We proceed with the motion ~r'~~~ made by Shri Datar. ~ ... Shri Hem Barua (Gauhati) rose. '~ : ~ ~ ~ 'Ii"<: Mr. Speaker: He was not in his m f'f; ar" the things that I want to know from the Prime Minister; the situation ~ ~ 't ~ 'liT ;m gm, ;m ~ +it m ~ liT ~ 'iftf.rm ij; ~ 'Ii"<: f<:"qr self stated that it is a grave news and it creates a serious situation. Natural- >m ~ I W 'R mRT mft ;;rrQ; I ly our Armed Forces will do their utmost to meet it. It is all that I can ~~~~r ~ I cannot go into details. ~ ~r ~ 'R ~ ~ 'f@ m Shri Hem Barua: May I submit that ~~''1~~ liT ~ I there is no defence in Assam? What is the defence preparation. .. (Inter- ruptions.) ~ ~

Mr. Speaker: Would h" resume his 8hri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Aid from aeat. all friendly countries.

Shri Priya Gupta: I will, with all Shri Hem Barna: From friendly humility. But I would ask the Prime countries. Minister one thing. The Prime Minis- Mr. Speaker: I am sorry I made a ter is laughing. (Interruption). mistake. Mr. Speaker: Oorder, order. Shri Hem Barua: You put a twist 15ft fSflf 'r."

Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I have Shri Hem Barua: I beg of you to allowed him to put questi::>ns. understand our feelings, the feelings of this country, on this matter. Shri Hem Barua: My question was whether we are going to call an Mr. Speaker: I do. But you should immediate cease fire and start nego- also understand the difficulties. (In- tiations and all that, or whether we terruption.) are going to have a total war, with military aid from our friendly coun- Shri Ranga: May I make a s~ 'tries, with men and materials, to set tion? Nothing could be heard now, out to fight. (Interruption). and so, could you allow some time se that we can settle down? It looks as Mr. Speaker: He has put the ques- if there is a fracas between the Chair tion. and some han. Members of the House. It is not possible to have a tallt. Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Assam Therefore, kindly give us time to is exposed now; it is V\llnera!ha. settle down. 2237 Statement on NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Situation in NEFA 2 and Ladakh Mr. Speaker: They should not talk Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: As you simultaneously, of course. W"nen I have said, Sir, we are all deeply dis- stand up, I only say that others tressed at the turn of events, and I should resume their seats. Then, can very well understand our hon. will sit down and any hon. Member friends from Assam should be even might stand and speak. That is the more deeply distressed. Of courSE:, only procedure we can adopt. we are all distressed and there is no question of more distressed or less Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath (Hoshan- distressed. We should take every gabad): May I earnestly plead with conceivable and possible measure to you that on this r~ occasion, meet this emergency and this crisis, you will kindly understand and appre- and we are trying to get all the pos- ciate how baffieq,.bow distressed and sible help we can from friendly coun- how shocked w~ all are, and there- tries. There is not limitation aLont fore, I would earnestly request you that of any kind. (Interruption). not to misunderstand when some of us get up and ask questions. I would Shri Priya Gupta: My question is only give the gist of what my hon. regarding the reported agreement colleague asked. His question was between China and Pakistan to hand that Assam which is his State and over Kashmir, West Bengal and our State-India is one, we are all Assam to Pakistan. Does he know integrated into one nation-is now anything about it? vulnerable and thoroughly exposed to the enemy, and so, what measures- Mr. Speaker: How can the Gov- virile, vigorous and strong measures- ernment say anything· about that? were taken, have been taken and are being taken, by arms, equIpment and Shri Priya Gupta rose- all that, to step up our preparations (Interruption. ) and stop the Chinese thrust south- ward and right into the heart of Mr. Speaker: Order, order. He India. What measures have been insists on 'his attitude and he goes on taken? without having a pause or listening to anybody else. Mr. Speaker; Shri Kamath and others who put the question should know that all of us are distressed. Shri Ranga (Chittoor): I do not They must include me in that "us" wish to come in the way of your en- as well as the Prime Minister. Every- forcing the rule in the usual manner, one of us, wherever he might be but these are verv important and sitting, and everyone in the whole critical days and, t'herefore, I would country Will certainly be distressed. like you to show some latitude to us, But are we just going to face the and in the procedure also whlch you issue just in this manner? He has would be enforcing. The other day, put the question and I was putting my hon. friend Shri Kamath had sug- it to the Prime Minister and then gested that Parliament should be there was interruption. I was not given the opportunity of meeting at allowed to repeat that question. That least once in every month, for a was my difficulty. How can I pro- week, and now, we do not know any- ceed in this manner if this method is thing at all as to what the Govern- adopted? I will ask the hon. Prime ment wishes to do. Even on this MinIster. occasion, my hon. friend, the Prime Minister, did not take the trouble. did Shri Hem Barna: May put not think it necessary, to go a little another question? beyond than the ordinary anwser that he has given to the Calling Attention Mr. Speaker: Does he want the Notice; we would like him to tell us answer to the other question or not? a little more than what he has told (Interruptions. ) U9 just now as to the steps that he 2239 Statement on KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Situation in NEF A and Ladakh proposes to take, first, to keep the here, it is not possible to go into all House in constant consultation and the details. If the Members get im- also the steps that he proposes to take patient simply on that, namely, that to strengthen our defences. Other- the details are not given, we appre- wL,e, it would be very difficult for us ciate the difficulty, and we must merely to satisfy you and the House appreciate the difficulty of those who according to the rules and, at the have to administer or who have to go same time, to play the role that we ahead with the matter. The inlor- have to play here. mation might be harmful t(} 0'11' country also. Therefore I though: Mr. Speaker: I would request hon. we should proceed to othel' business Members that they should also appre- now. I would advise those who feel ciate the difficulties that the Govern- '0 strongly about it-of course, every- ment might be experiencing. I quite one feels so strongly abc,ut it-.that know and understand the feelings if they are so inclined, they mlght go that we have got just at present. We him, and know the position. The into confidence and tell us? Certainly Government would not be able to we are courageous enough to main- disclose everything here, what action tain our courage here in spite of some- is being taken, what procedure is of theSe grievous ss~ being adopted, what we are doing, etc. Certainly, there is anxiety. I would request hon. Members-twc or three of them might go and sit with Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: May I the Prime Minister. Probably he will point out that WaIong fell sam.. tim.. be more communicative then, but day before yesterday and Sela feu.. .2241 Statement on Situa- NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Foreigners Law tion in NEFA and Ladakh (Application and Amendment) Bm [Shri Jawaharlal Nehru] 1If':!f1ll$!f: ~r I to our knowledge, yesterday after- noon? The House was not sitting on Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: I under- Saturday and Sunday and I have stand the Prime Minister telling the taken the earliest opportunity to in- House that the House did not sit on form the House. Saturday and Sunday. But on Fri- . day morning, the papers carried the Shri Hem Barua: We gnt the news news that fierce fighting waF going on of the fall of Walong day before in Walong and Jang, but no statement yesterday all right. (Interruptions). was made in the House. Mr. Speaker: We shall now proceed Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Fierce with the motion moved by Shri fighting was going on. It is always Datar. gomg on in various places. But Walong fell day before yesterday. on Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: I mad.. Saturday. a request. That has not been replied i1D. Mr. Speal"t lfT'ffi:R; ,!fu 'fiT risks in the situation. I do not wish ~ <'flIcft ~ I ~ ~ ~ ~ f'f; ~ to make any elaborate speech on this occasion, but will only seek clarifica- ~ ~r 'M1, 'M1 ~ aT 'RID, ""'" tion on certain matters which are ~'~~~~~~ germane to the Bill and to the ordi- ~~~~~'1' I 'm nance which is now being souj!ht to be replaced by the Bill. if; fu1:!: 'f['1 ~ if; ~ ~ >:fR Wr ~ I ;;it ;frfu ~ 't ~ ~ ¥it The first point I wish to make out is with regard to the Bill. It does not ~ ;frfu ~ ~ ,,!it ~ I mOffif ~ mention as to when it will actually ;p@ ¥it, 'I1l: '1<'Rf ~ ,,!'IiT ~ I m ~ come into force, whereas clause 1 of Ordinance No.5 of 1962 Says: ~ ~ if; mlf.'t ~ "IT, 'I1l: ~ ~ ~ ~ I ~1 ~ ~~ f'f; ~ . "It shall be deemed to have come into force On the 26th of ~~'1'''r~ October, 1962." +I;;,fflN ~ if; ~ ~ ~ crrf.l; This gives rise to a litUe doubt in my ~'3'~r I mind, with regard to this particular ,2243 ForeigneTs Law KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) (Application and Amendment) Bill provision at the ordinance. The ordi- nothing more to say. But I had cer- nance was carried in the extraordi- tain doubts and I thought you might nary gazette of 30th of October, 1962 allay them. If that is the position,. saying that it would come into force the logical poSition under the Con- on the 26th October, 1962, that is to stitution, then I have nothing more say, with retro-active effect. I do not to say. know whether this is quite ril:ht that something is published in the gazette on 30th October, providing that it will May now proceed to another take retrospective Or retro-active point? Clause 2 of the Bill says: effect "a citizen or subject of any The next poin t I would like to ask country at war with, or commit- the Minister is about this provision ting external aggression against, about parents and grandparents. It India or of any other country is no doubt necessary that power assisting the country at war with should be taken to detain persons who or committing such aggression are considered to be security risks at against India ...... that time. I ask with some trepida- tion whether it would be right to go back two generations, 40 or 50 years That means to say, in the present con- and consider any person who was text, any other country assisting born of either parent-mother or China. I hope that the Government father-who was Chinese at ~ really means business and is serious I do not wish to make any odious about enforcing the provisions of thiB comparison, but if I remember aright, clause. I do not know whether Gov- there was in Germany under the re- ernment has followed the implica- gime of Hitler a law with regard to tions of this term as understood. r the Jews saying that any person would be happy 'if they are enforced, whose grandparent was .... but I am doubtful whether at all this particular provision would be en- Mr. ~r May I draw his kind forced ·because the citizens of any 5 attention to articles and 6 of the nation' or country which is helping Constitution? These are the qualift- the enemy, that is. China in the pre- cations for acquiring Indian citizen- sent situation, wiII also be liable to' ship. Therefore, those words are be proceeded against under this being taken from there, because SO'!lE' clause. Chinese might have acquired Indian citizenship on that account. Article 6 says: Only the other day We read in the papers--I do not know Wlhether the "he or either of his parents or press reports are correct; r believe any of his grand-parents ...... they are, sometimes; often-that one of These are the conditions of acquisitiar. the East European countries, Czecho- of citizen'Shlp. slovakia, is supplying arms in abundance, in great numbers, to China. Shri Harl Vislum Kamath: Tho! is I ask the Minister of Home Affairs- for citizenship. perhaps, he will never answer the' question: the Prime Minister will Mr. Speaker: Therefore. those answer it, because it is his subject: Chinese that were of Chinese onl(lD but I should like to put it to the but who acquired Indian citizenship Minister because he is part of the under these articles are intended to Government-does the Minister con- be brought under this Bill. sider, does the Goverrrment consider that because Czechoslovakia, which is Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: If it a Communist country, an East Euro- logically follows from that, have pean Communist country, is send!n/r 2245 Foreigners Law NOVEMBER 19, 1962 (Application and Amendment) Bill [Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath] Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: ncen- arms and thereby assisting China, tioned Czechos1'<>vakia first. Then, I therefore, every citizen or nation3.l, said, God forbid, Russia may help every Czech e>r SloCJvak whose parents China. I hope Russia will not. But or grand parents were of Czech or if, God forbid, Russia helps China, Slovak origin would be affected by what would ,be the position? this provision? I would like ~ ask: Mr. Speaker: Then the phrase "God GOd forbid, tomorrow Russia may forbid" will not help us in any way. help China. Wiil all citizens whose parents or grand r~ wr~ Shtl Barl Vishnu Kamath: Gov· were of Russian be affected by ernment must make up their mind lhis provisio:1? Government 'lnust before they come forward with this m"kc up its mind on this point first Bill. They must state the position and not pass a law which will te a clearly; otherwise, let them not bring dead letter. It must make up its mi'1d such a provision before us. I make before it passes a law like this or a humble submission to you to direct ~s up before the Ho-use with a me- the Minister, if not this Minister some asure like this, Let it make up its other senior Minister, to make a state- minj t'lat if any country, whether ment on this matter. ~ Americn Or Russia .. Or East European countries, or Pakistan ~ Then, finally, I will ask for clari- Bu,ma. if it helps the enemy, the fication on another point. The Min- enemy being China, it must make up ister said there is a provision in this Bill about internee, but I find tha, the its mind from now and now on to e sec;o:lsly enforce this provision of the word "internee" is not defined here. Bin and any person, not merely whereas in the order passcd by the Chinese. c;w ally of China, any coun- President under this r~ try which will help China in any which is now being passed into a m:tnne:::-, by arms, men.. ammunition. law, in the order dated the 3rd Nov- mOi1ey Or anything, must be proceeded ember, the word "internee" is defin- against under this provision. I would ed, That is to say, the order of the be glad And the Houce w~ be glad President was some days later, after If the ~'1 me3ns busin2ss in the Ordinance, and there the word ihis matt.-lO :tnd sr~s means to en- "in ternee" is defined. I do not know fo;'ce this provsion with all the Dower why it is not defined here also. My hon. friend, Shri Bade, is therefore, that We propose to arm thorn ~ quite right in giving notice cf his The Defence Mi:1ister. the new amendment, because it is not defined, Defence Mi'1ister, who will perhaps because it is suddenly sprung on us take over d'\Y after tomorrow, m.de a in the Bill. The words "i'lternee" s~~ in Bomboy day tEf0re and "parole" must be defined. We yes!t,day that Russia will side with knew to our cost during the Second Ch' 03. He must have ple'1ty of World War what "parole" was; I du material on whiclh he based his con- not know whether the Minister him- clusion. That means at some distant self was on parole or not. Anyway, date, God hrbid, 'Russia may help it is good, it is necessary fuat these China, may be on the side of China two worcls "parole" and Uinternee" and, therefore, Russia may be helping should be defined in the Bill itself. the e!'!".n" h that manner. Will I do not know why it should not be Governer' ~ take Similar action against done. Russia ...... '. Lastly, take the order, because we shall not get another occasion. Mr. Speaker: Why should the hon. Member mention the names of coun- Shri Bade: The hon. Minister has tries? He could say "those countries given the explanation in his speech' which help the enemy by sending that "internee" and "detainee" mean :arms or by other means". the same thing. 22,p Foreigners Law KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) (Application and 224 Amendment) Bill Mr. Speaker: No, he has not said rights shall be suspended. Ther& is that. He said that "detained" would an explanation there which reads as also include "interned"; that is what follows: he said. "If such a person has been de- Shri Bade: But the dictionary mean- prived of any such right under ing is quite different. the Defence of India Ordinance"

Mr. Speaker: If one includes the Suppose a person is detained or other) it does not mean Plat both are arrested for some other matter, not the same. under the Defence of India Ae; but Shri ~ It do's not include. under some other law, his right to move a court against his confinement Mr. Speaker: That is a matter of or internment under that law should opinion. not be affected. So, this proviso should be included there so that it Shri lIari Vish!1u Kamath: One will affect only those persons 'Nho word more and I hove done. Sir, I have boen deprived of any such right eraV2 your indulgence ~ take up under the Defence of India Ordi- thes2 mattei'S because they are all nance, now Act, or any rule or order related, inler-linked with each other. made thereunder. It is all the more The order passed by the President in necessary when we are fighting a ~ 11ini3try of ~ Affairs Notifica- totalitarian power that we should see tion '\'0. GS" 1418. pubiished in to it that in every way, whether fi!,ht- Gazette Extraordinary dated Tuesday, ing a war. or keeping peace or keep- October 30, says: ing the country fit for democracy and for the future also, our system is in- HIn exercise of the powers con- fin;;ely superior to the total defence ferred by c}Ju:i:.:-':l) of r~ 359 system which China has espoused. of the Constitution, the President Therefore, it is all the more neces- hereby declares that the right of sary, when we are arming the exe- any person who is- cutive with whatever power they re- (a) a foreigner, or qui!'e, we see to it that this clause or proviso is included even in this order (b) a person not of Indian origin so that it is o'Olv when a person is who was by birth a citizen deprived of his right under the or subject of any country Defence of India Act or the Foreign- committing external aggres- ers Act that his right to move the sion again,t India, or of any courts is suspended, not otherwise. other country assisting the country committing such 13 hrs. aggression against India, Shri Indrajit Gupta (Calcutta South to move any court for the en- West): Mr. Speaker, Sir, as my hon. forcement of the rights conferred friend, Shri Kamath, has said, there by article 21 and article 22 of the can be no two questions as to the Constitution shall remain sus- necessity of the Government arming pended for the period during itself with adequate powers at a time which the proclamation of emer- like this to deal with both foreigners gency issued under clause (1) of and, if it considers it necessary for article 352 thereof on the 26th the sake of the security of the coun- October 1962 is in force." try, also with persons whose origin of birth may not have been Indian. It is in strange contrast to another On this question of principle there orn ~r passed by the President on the can be no controversy. But I should 3rd November directing that similar also wish to raise one or two points (Application and 2249 Foreigners Law NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Amendment) Bill [Shri Indrajit Gupta] for the consideration of the Govern- Then, as far as I have understood ment arising out of the letter of the it, the only purpose of this Bill is to law because 1 have some questions to deal with those persons whose num- ask. which are not quite clear to me. I ber, of course, 1 do not know. 1 think hope the han. Minister will clarify we should be taken into confidence a the implications of these provisions little. If the exact figures are not which are now before the House. available to Government, we should be told the number, roughtly, of Incidentally, I would just point out Chinese residents in this country who one thing. I do not know whether it have acquired Indian citizenship and is a lapse or it as a deliberate amend- have become Indian nationals. I ment. At least, it has not corne be- know, there are many thousands of fore us an ah amendment. You will Chinese residents the overwhelming find, Sir, that in the Ordinance of the majority of whom fall into two cate- 30th October, 1962, the definition, or gories and they automatically classi- rather where the question of extend- fy themselves as foreigners, that is, ing the application of the Foreigners those who are either citizens of the Act is taken up, the words used Chinese People's Republic or those are:- who are Stateless in the sense that they have not become Indian citizens. "in relation to any person not They have been residing in this coun- of Indian origin who was at birth try for many, many years perhaps a citizen or subject of any coun- and they are not able to take out the try at war with" nationality papers of the Government or regime in Formosa because our Government does not have diplomatic etc. In the statement of objects and relations with that Government. They reasons of this Bill the same words are in this position. These two cate- are used, but in the body of the Bill gories between them, . as far as I I find that in clause 2, lines 10 and know, I think. cover almost the over- 11, the words used are slightly differ- whelming majority of the Chinese .ent. There it says:- residents in this country. Regarding these two categories, there can be no "any person who Or either of doubt that at least there must be an whose parents, or any of whose enabling legislation to allow the Gov- grand-parents was at any time a ernment to take action, if necessary, citizen or subject of any country" against both of these categories.

etc. So, in the Ordinance it is put as I cannot help recalling that there "was at birth" and in the Bill itself it have been some remarks made in thi. is put as "was at any time". This House earlier about a suggestion that may have certain implications-I do Mr. Chiang Kai-Shek's Government not know. I would like the Govern- is an ally of ours in this war and so ment to explain why this discrepancy on and that we should try to co- is there. If it is an amendment made ordinate our action with an offensive subsequently in the Ordinance itself, from Formosa and so on. Such thing. it has not been put in that form. Is were also said ·in this debate. So, it .t a lapse or is it a printing mistake? is well to remember that Mr. Chiang I am not quite clear about it. But Kai-Shek's Government also has we should be told what it is because made it clear publicly that they do a person's nationality 'at birth' and not accept the MacMahon Line as the 'at any time' are two different things. border. Let that be clear. There- I hope, the hon. Minister will clarify fore, there is no questior, about these this question, otherwise it is likely to two categories. Surveillance must lead to some confusion. be kept on them and, if necessary, 2251 Foreigners La1DS KARTIK.A 28, 1884 (SAKA) A~ ad 2252 Amendment) Bill action must be taken against indivi- which he has decided to leave and duals. with which he has severed his rights and citizenship? Are we possibly to deport a national of our own country But I am concerned with the third back to that country? I do not know category whose number I do not what the position is in the matter of know, who may have become Indian law. I am apprehensive about it and citizens and are our nationals by the that is why I want to raise this point. :mere fact of applying for citizenship I would like the Government give and accepting the citizenship of our to it its most serious consideration and country. We have to take it at face see whether it is likely to have any value. They have cut off their con- undesirable repercussions on IndiaIll! nections with their country of birth who are residents, either as citizen. or their original homeland. What is or, maybe, as Stateless persons, in the implication of this for them? That very large numbers in some other is what I am concerned with. Did countries. Has this point been consi- the Government not have adequate dered? I do not want such a thin, powers under the other existing pro- to be passed here which may add to visions of the Defence of India Rules, the difficulties of Indians in other Preventive Detention Act and so OR countries. to deal with persons who may be Chinese originally but who have now I was, for example, reading the become our citizens? I do not see other day in the papers--it is just a what power is not at the disposal of sort ~ an illustrative reference that the Government under these other I am making-the statement of the Rules and Acts. As far as I can see Prime Minister or the Premier of under section 30 of the Defence of Singapore which, as you know very India Rules-Restriction on move- well, is a city with a very mixed ment of persons or suspected persons, population in which the Chinese and. restriction orders and detention orders the Indians are numerically the big- -there are very wide and sweeping gest sections of the population and powers taken by the Government the Chinese are very much more under which they can take action numerous than the Indians. There against anybody, foreigner or other- was a report in the Statesman and it wise. Then, there is the Preventive appeared a few days ago. With your Detention Act and so on. So, I would permission, I would like to read out like to know as to what the particu- a few lines. It is the report of their lar necessity, if any, is of bringing own correspondent. It says:- forward this particular amending Bill only for the sake of dealing with "the only comment" these people who have subsequently regarding this conflict between India become our citizens and are our and China nationals. I hope, the han. Minister will clarify that because if they are "the Singapore Prime Minister, our citizens, they can be arrested, Mr. Lee Kuan Yew, has made on detained, interned or externed under the border conflict so far was on the other existing powers which the Thursday. He said his Govern- Government already has. If the defI- ment's concern was that the con- nition of 'foreigner' is extended to flict should not 'upset the har- them, according to the letter of the mony and unity' of the Chinese law, they can also be deported. I and Indian communities. It think, that is a very strange thing. I should, however, be recognized do not know whether such a law that Mr. Lee Is the Premier of an exists In any other country whereby overwhelmingly Chinese city." a national of a country can be deport- ed. Where or to which country will There are Indians In positions similar he be deported? To the country to this in other parts of the world 2140 (Ai) LSD-4. Fo,.eigners Laws NOyEMBER 19, 1962 (Application and 2254 Amendment) Bm [8hri Indrajit Gupta] ~ They are there in some African Shri Hari Bishnu Kamath: can- countries. They are there in Ceylon. not compare. The matter has been discussed here several times. Some are Stateless; Shri Indrajil Gupta: Even yester- some have become citizens of Ceylon; day's papers have got the oflicial news some are Indian citizens in Ceylon that the four factories in Czechoslova- and so on. Then, they are in Hong kia which were shipping 'Or manufac- Kong and in many other places, as is turing certain weapons for China known to the Government. I just have stopped doing so. He should want to raise this for the serious con- have mentioned it. sideration of the Government that if Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: I do not we adopt a piece of legislation which read as avidly as you do. gives us the power virtually to dena- tionalise a national of ours and say, Shr! Indrajit Gupta: You should. "Henceforth, in practice, you cease to At least in that matter, you should be a national and we can even deport follow me if not in anything else. you"-that is the power that is being taken-then, apart from the question Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: I will of the leiter of the law, is there any try. possibility of there being rather un- Shri Indrajit Gupta: Can this defi- fortunate reprecussions in countries nition be stretched like, "or either of where there may be people wanting whose parents, or any of whose to make mischief on this score? Has grandparents was at any time-be- this been considered? I do not like cause it is not at birth-a citizen or Indians, however few they may be, subject of any country at war with, even in China still, to be put to diffi- or committing external aggression culties which are even more severe against, India or of any other country than they have already suffered. assisting the country at war with, or committing such aggression against.." Shri D. C. Sharma: Are there any Indians in China? What about the lakhs and lakhs of pe'ople who have come over from Shri Indrajit Gupta: The other day, Pakistan as refugees? You may say there was an answer saying that that I am stretching the point a bit there are some. I do n'ot know too far. I do not mean to imply for their number. This is a question a minute that the Government wishes which I would like the Govern- to use this Act against those people. ment to consider very seriously. What is the position in law? Of course, I know these people were b'orn in the One other point that I wish to then undivided India, subsequently a raise is regarding this definition. This part of which became P,akistan. That definition has been made very com- is the position. But, the way it is prehensive as the Minister said. Mr. defined here, I do not see what there Kamath, welcoming this comprehen- is to prevent the USe of the Act siveness tried or rather hoped that it against these unfortunate people who would be used in the caSe of certain have come as refugees from Pakistan people whom he named. and settled in India and acquired Indian citizenship. Their parents or Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: I said grandparents were born 'Or at some for all countries. time or other were citizens of Pakis- ~ What is the position? Shri Indrajit Gupta: I say -in re- ference to the particular example he Shr! Tyagi: It was not Pakistan cited. I am sure he reads the plpers then. It was India. If they were even more avidly than I do. born after Pakistan came into exis- 2255 Foreigners Laws KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) (Application and Amendment) Bm tence, they will be born in Pakistan. Do they come within the ambit They were actually born in India. this definition? Nobody is going y take action against them under IS Shri Indrajit Gupta: am grateful Act, I know. The point is, this i ., to Shri Tyagi...... posti'cn which we should exami Why should We unnecessarily s~ Mr. Speaker: Order, order. This trepidation and confusion by saying'i; makes an enabling provision. If any that a new thing has been Pilssed of them also including myself behaves which brings in all these people and in any manner that is deterimental to they may tomorrow be treated as the security of the State, why should foreigners, not nationals. This' is a they be brought under this law? very serious position in my opinion. This sh'ould be considered carefully. Shri Indrajit Gupta: If· you and behave--God forbid-in a manner like These are the main points that that, even if our parents were born struck me and I wan ted to raise in Pakistan, there is nothing to prevent them. I hOPe very much that the the Government taking action under Government will consider them. If the Preventive Detention Act and there is any lacuna of this type of Defence of India Rules. They have anomalies the Government should not got all the powers. hesitote to make the necessary changes or amendments in it. As far as the Shri Tyagi: My question is, when general powers are concerned, there they were born, On that date, there can be nO two questions ab'out it. was no Pakistan and therefore they The positions of our nationals should were not born in Pakistan. They not be jeopardised in any way, neither were born in India. here nor those who are living in Mr. Speaker: Order, order. Shri other countries abroad. Tyagiwould remember that this ques- tion aroSe whether they had got citi- Shri Sham Lal Saraf (Jammu and zenship automatically and definite pro- Kashmir): Sir, 1'0 my mind, the pro- vision had to be made in that regard. visions that are embodied in this Bill Shri Indrajit Gupta is right in that are abSOlutely clear. I want to raise respect. two points for the consideration of the hen. Minister. Shri Iudrajit Gupta: I am grateful to Shri Tyagi for his legal assistance. One thing is clear and it h3S also I do not know as much law as he does. been made clear by the han. Minister I am seek;ng clarification. If there is that foreigners, even nationals who no danger, it is all right. Let it be are actually of foreign origin have explained. After all, the execution or to be dealt with under this law. My implementation 'of this law is not going consternation about one matter is, in to be done eVErywhere by the Home the borders right from Karakorum up Minister himself going round. We to the other end, N.E.F.A., on either know how things are implemented side of the border, the population is down below by petty officials. That is such that it is very difficult to say who why I am raising this question. I have is ,a Chinese and who is not. My ex- a genuine apprehension in my mind. perience also is, sometimes like that. It should be clarified. We have to be very vigilant. The Government have to be very vigilant in order to find a wolf in the garb of a What about Portugal? What about lamb. He may look like a Tibetan. In '~ who are born in Goa? It was fact. he is Chinese. He may look lj1;:e part of the Portuguese empire. The somebody else. Even a person rr;)m parents or rr~s might have Ladakh has to be found out if he is been born in Goa. What happens? Chinese. These are matters which Foreigners Laws NOVEMBER 19, 1962 (Application and Amendment) Bill [Shri Sham Lal Saraf] have to be looked at very carefully come from that side also as foreigners, and cautiously. Along with that, who work against our interests and it may not be difficult for our Govern- ultimately je'opardise our efforts. ment to detain people who may be found doing things against our country or against our war effort. It will be Therefore, two points I have to bring easy to detect them or bring them to to your notice. First, people who may book in the ·plains. But, I am talking not look like Chinese may actually of higher In the mountains and parti- be born in China and may work for cularly in the border regions. We our Chinese enemy. That is one P'oint have to be very vigilant and careful. so far as the entire border is con- Unless the Intelligence wing both in cerned. Secondly, entry of people the Army as well as the Central Intel- from Pakfstan has to be watched about. ligence are well organised, as I said In order to implement this law we the other day, it will be very difficult have to be armed well. These are the to implement the main provisions of two points that I w:ant to bring to this law. My feeling is that these your notice. people Who may have come with this purpose or who may be within the country, who want to sabotage our efforts, their maL, W J7k will be along Shri A. C. Guha (Barasat): I wel- the borders, along the areas where it come the introduction of this Bill. I may be a little difficult to detect them have personal experience of similar unless we are fully armed and are fully Bills and similar enactments during the prepared to lay our hands upon them. last two wars. I think it is a neces- sity to have a measure of this nature. Secondly, I must say very candidly At the same time, I appreciate at least that the reports that We get from the one of the points mentioned by Shri Pakistan border, round about Raj as- Indrajit Gupta that this Bill will than, Punjab and Jammu and Kash- cover pers'ons who are technically mir, more particularly Jammu and Indian citizens but who might have Kashmir and at the eastern end are been alien citizens or foreigners some not only against us. But, I may tell years ago. As they are Indian citi- you and through you the Government zens for the present, they will equally ~ their action may be very very come within the purview of the De- dangerous. They have already been fence of India Bill which will be doing sabotage and sending saboteurs enacted by this House, and in respect into our territory, at a moment when of which an Ordiance is also preva- our Army is engaged elseWhere, in a lent already. But, still, I feel that life and death struggle. Though a some difference should be made bet- number of attempts are being made in ween the attitude of Government t'O- order to have some friendly relations wards those who are Indian citizens at least at the moment and to have a and their attitude towards those who eor! of political cease fire with Pakis- were alien citizens but who have now tan also I do not know how far it will taken Indian citizenship. We have to succeed. The Government have to be be somewhat specially careful about vigilant on that side. Because on that such people particularly when we side, the terrain is not so difficult as on are engaged in a war. the borders that confronts us on the side of Tibet. The borders are so completely cut off and people can come and go like anything Not only I do not know what the attitude of that. We have to be cautious even Government is about the dimension within our territory. We have men and immenSity of this war. There Is and women who may very easily be a feeling that Government may still prone \0 help such elements as might consider this war to be of a limited 2259 FareigneTs Laws KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) (Application and 2260 Amendmen!; Bill nature. But the developments of the foreign banks can ~1 in a coun- last two or three days should, I think, try only on a reciprocal basis. Only remove that illusion from the mind of if any Indian banks have been func- Government, and there should. be a tioning in China the Bank of China tota1 eff'ort and a total mobilisation of should have been allowed to function our resources, manpower and every- he.re; but to my knowledge, there is thing else for the prosecution of the no Indian 'bank functioning in China. war and for freeing our country from So, I do not understand why Govern- foreign invasion. For that purpose. we ment allowed the Bank of China to have to be particularly careful about operate here and do all sorts of thi!'.gs, those who are now Indian citizens but which, according to the general feeling who were previously Chinese citizens. in Calcutta, were not conducive to the I am sure that this Bill is particularly healthy growth of banking operation meant for the Indian citizens of and often h'ostile to Indian nationality Chinese origin. Though their name and Indian solidarity. has not been specifically mentioned. yet, this Bill is, specially meant for The original Act provides punish- them. ment for any offences under it or for Sir, I belong to Calcutta, and I find the violati{)n of its prOVIsIOns. The that there are a large number of penalties may range up to imprison- Chinese citizens in Calcutta. Some of ment which may extend to five years, them have taken Indian citizenship. and the person concerned shall also be Some of them belong to Kuomintang liable to a fine. But the general ten- China, maybe, for the sake of con- dency of the courts is to treat such venience: some of them surely do not cases very leniently. It has been re- have Indian nationality nOr do they ported that a person of dubious na- tionality was arrested in Assam, while belong ('0 Kuomintang China but they belong to Communist China. It was he was taking photographs of the new- rather distressing for us to see that ly constructed Brahmaputra Bridge, Government were indulgent towards and on his person was found Rs. 1,200. these Chinese residents of Calcutta. That perS'on was released on a bail of For the last four or five years, re- Rs. 1000 only on the security of one peated mention was made about the Mr. Kamaruddin, and that person is Chinese opening up laundry shops: reported to have escaped. This is only they were taking big shops 'on almost a very recent occurrence; it shows that fantastic rents; we do not know whe- the courts take a lenient view of such ther the business they were doing serious offences. The Brahmaputra would cover such high expenses and bridge is of a great importance, it is a national asset, but particularly at overheads and renu. Still, Govern- ment were allowing those laundry this moment it is of great strategic importance. Anybody taking phc!o- shops not only to continue but also to grow in number. graphs {)f that bridge from diffe-'en! angles should not have been atlowed Then, on many occasions, the atlen- to go out on ball on the security of tion of Government had been drawn a person whose loyalty to India also to the operations of the Bank of China. should have been the subject-matter We are almost on a sort of war with of doubt. So, I think that Govern- China for some years; technically, ment should issue a sort of circular even noW, we are not at war with to the courts that all such offence8 China, but this kind of border clashes should be dealt with rather with some with atina was going on for the last sternness particularly in considera- five or six years. So, the operations tion of the present situation, and of the Bank of China in Calcutta should not be treated leniently. should have been the subject-matter of Government's attention long before. !'tIy hon. friend has referred to the There is a general cl:>nvention that Pakistan r~ that Is, the retu- Foreigners Laws NOVEMBER 19, 1962 (Application and 226:a Amendment) Bill [Shri A. C. Guha] gees coming from Pakistan and to the by way of supplying civilian goods Goan citizens. We are not in conflict apart from military goods would also now with Pakistan Or with Portugal. be in· a way a sort of assi tance to Technically, . the citizens of these two India. So, I do not like the idea of countries would not be covered o.y our banning all sorts of countries in the provisions of the Bill at present. the world, for then, I think that the I do not know what further develop- whole civilised world will become ments will take place in the future, something uninhabitable. We shOUld but at present this Bill would not not limit ourselves only to military touch any citiz'en or any person con- assistance. But I should like to draw nected with Pakistan or with Portu- the attention of Government to some gal. The operations of this Bill will countries, to some of our neighbour- touch only those who will be engaged ing countries whose intentions are [n sabotage or other doubtful activi- not at all friendly to India, and who ties damaging the interests of the have been expressing sentiments and Indian nation and Indian solidarity. ideas quite hostile to the interests of If the refugees do any of these things India, particularly in these difficult or any of these activities, then they times. will also come under this Bill. I too, like my han. friend Shri Indrajit What would be the attitude of Gov- Gupta, belonged originally to East ernment to those people who may be Pakistan. suspected to have some loyalty to those countries. In the border areas 8hri Indrajit Gupta: Why should of West Bengal, Assam, Punjab, and he come under this Bill? Kashmir, I think the number of such people would not be quite negligible. 8hri A. C. Guha: That is true. Government should make up their may not come under this Bill, but mind about what they intend to do may come under the other Act. But with such persons who may be Indian that does not matter much. This Bill citizens and teChnically who are not makes some special provisions, and I covered under this Bill. I think they am sure that those special provisions are a source of potential danger to are particularly meant for the Indian solidarity. I think they cons- Chinese residents in India, and I titute a greater potential danger to think that their number is about Assam and West Bengal than the 20,000 or 30,000; I hope the Govern- Chinese themselves because the ment should at least take the House Chinese are localised in some cities; into confidence about the actual num- but these people are spread over all ber of Chinese residents in India. the border. We do not know what action Government are taking in this Th"re is also one other thir.g. matter and may work in a subtle do. not.like to say anything about any way. From this point of view, countries which may be supplying Assam requiries special consideration. arms to China. If the two contesting ThP number of infiltrators frOTll parties, India and China, go on ban- neighbouring countries in Assam h81 ning all countries rendering any sort been estimated from 7-8 lakhs to 3- of help, such assistance would cover 4 lakhs. They can do much harm also trade connections, because trade if they roam about the border bet- connections also would be a sort of ween India and other countries and assistance. Purchasing things from try to act counter to our interests. So China or supplying even civilian Government should make up their goods to China would also amount to mind about such elements. assistance rendered to China. Simi- larly anything done to India by w~ With these words, I support the of encouraging our export policy or Bill. At the same time, I wish Gov- 2263 Foreigners Laws KARTlKA 28, 1884' (SAKAl (Application and Amendment) Bill emmen t to be careful in applying the ordered to remain in some place; he provisions of the Bill so that really would not be under the ,custody of the right persons may be dealt with Government. Therefore, probably under it. there was a distinctioB req'uired bet- ween the two words in this respect. Shri U. M. Trivedi (Mandsaur): I really welcome the provisions of this Shri U. M. Trivedi: You have Bill. This Bill, I should say, is exactly follOWed what I wanted to 'coming late, We have delayed it. say. This clause 3 says, 'shall be We are today in a very gloomy at- arrested and detained or confined'. mosphere so far as the aggression on These are the only words used. Then our country is concerned, and if 'we suddenly the word 'internee' has been have not woken up so far, we have used. I want a definition of the word committed a wrong to ourselves. To 'internee' somewhere. Who will be wake up today, however, is indicative an internee? I quite appreciate the of the fact that the Government has fact that the dictionary meaning ot bestirred itself to the, situation that is the word 'internee' is as you have unfolding before us, suggested, that is, internee would be a man who has been asked to remain However, as a Member of this at a particular place and not move House and also as a lawyer, I feel about. But why not define the word? that the Bill is not well drafted, In Why suddenly use the word without clause 3, the words used are 'arrested defining it? There is no definition and detained or confined'. I see no given in the clause of this Bill or any- reason whatsoever for changing over where. Why leave the question as to from this expression and making it an who will or who will not be an inter- "internee'. The word 'interned' does nee undefined? That is why I submit not occur anywhere; the words used that 'we may add the words 'or in- are 'arrested, detained or confined', terned'. I leave it to the han. Minister Why is it that the word 'detenu' has tq consider. not been used? Instead of that, the word 'internee' has been used, Why 13.37 hra. create this difficulty for those officers who will have to interpret this law? [MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER in Naturally we know that we cannot the Chair] put our mind into the mind of'the Shri Indrajit Gupta was very ~~ officer who interprets the law, Why tuous about some people who mieht leave room for unnecessary haggling innocently get detained or intern.ed or about the position? It will be better confined under this law and suggested to use the word 'detenu' instead of that some who had come from Pakis- 'internee', If Government think that tan might get into trouble on account the word 'internee' is useful, then in of this. I will ask Shri Gupta-I am clause 3 it may be put as, 'arrested told that he is a lawyer .. and detained, or confined or interned' to indicate that the word 'internee' means a person who has been defined 8hri Indrajit Gupta: He is told in clause 3 of the Bill itself, Do not wrong. leave scope for unnecessary quibbling before courts, Shri U. M. Trivedi: I withdraw my words. But if he has any manner of Mr. Speaker: Here it is said, 'know- doubt, I would suggest that he must ingly assist an internee or a persoll brush up his knowledge of law by on parole to escape from custody or reading the Registration of Foreig- the place set apart for his residence '. ners' Act of 1939 and Foreigners' Act Detenu would be in the custody of the 1946 and the British Nationality Act G<>vernment ,itself in some jail or 1948. Then he will find that a Pakis- lock-up. Internee would have been tan citizen is not covered by this. Foreigners Laws NOVEMBER 19, 1962 (Application and 2266 Amendment) Bill 8hri Indrajit Gupta: Is he excluded 8hr! U. M. Trivedi: I am sorry you from this? are not correct.

8hri U. M. Trivedi: At present. So 8hri Indrajit Gupta: Read it again. far as those persons are concerned, . they might have to be dealt with 8hri U. M. Trivadi: I have read it. under the Defence of India Act. At The whole question is, even if he be- the same time, even in this law, if he comes a citizen of India, if his wants to apply this law to them, what parents or grandparents belong to a is said is: 'or any of whose grand- country which is at war with me, I ~rs was at any time a citizen or have no faith in such a person. He subject of any country at war with . .'. might make many declarlltions, just If Pakistan were at war with us, what as we are now criticising you; you harm is there in getting them includ- are shouting from the house tops that ed in this? There is nothing to pre- the communists are with the country, vent me from including such persons but we have no faith in you. in this definition. Shri Indrajit Gupta: We have no 8hri Indrajit Gupta: Not a Pakis- faith in you either. tani. 8hr! U. M. Trivedi: Certainly you 8hri U. M. Trivedi: Anybody whose have no faith in India. parents or any of whose grandparents was at any time a citizen or subject Shri Indrajit Gupta: India is more of any country at war with India. If than you, remember that. Pakistan were at war with us, and he was assisting the country at war with 8hri U. M. Trivedi. India does India or has committed aggression consist of me. against India, I am not afraid of deal- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. ing with him, and he must be dealt He has exceeded the time. He with accordingly. should conclude now. 8hri Indrajit Gupta: Has he got no 8hri U. M. Trivedi: I have just be- other law to deal with him? gun. It will take some time.

Shri Tyagi (Dehra Dun): He says Shri U. M. Trivedi: I have got any amount of law. Why should this not he has no faith in you. He is sup- apply to tbat person? This law must posed to be addressing the Chair' be applied. Other laws may also Shri U. M. Trivedi: Shri Tyagi apply. Aliy number of laws may should realise the context in which apply. We are going to apply them. it was said. We are not going to act merely in an arbitary manner against him. The whole question that has to be considered is this. It is said: So there is nothing wrong with the provision made in the law. We "(b) in section 4. cannot have a soft comer for those who are assisting the enemy, a count- (i) before sub-section (2). ry which is at war with us, whichever the following sub-section shalI country 1t is. be inserted, namely:- "(1) Any foreigner (herein- Shri IDdrajit Gapta: It is not hi8 after referred to as an in- country. It is referring to those ternee) in respect of whom people who have beeome Indian there is in force any order nationals. India is their country, not made under clau.se (g) of PalWtan. sub-sectlon (2) of section 3. 2267 Foreigners Laws KARTlKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) (AppLication and Amendment) Bill "directing that he be detained Shri Datar: I am obliged to the han. or confined, shall be detained or r~ who have supported the confined in such place and manne:' provisions of this Bill. Some of the and subject to such conditions .. " other han. Members raised certain auestions which are more or less due to a misunderstanding of the position That is why I raised this objection '" respect of which this Bill has been about the word "internee". Would it hrought forward. mean that the internee would also be such a person who has been asked to t would invite their attention to the be put at a particular place or who Stc: ement of Objects and Reasons as has been ordered to be put in a parti- to why this particular amending Bill cular house? Would that also ~ tn he brought forward. It says: include an internee? That is why a specific definition of "internee" would "In view of the present emer- be necessary in this case. ,,;ency, it is necessary that powers ghould be available to deal with 'lny person not of Indian origin As Shri Guha had suggested, it is who was at birth a citizen or high time that this law was made ope- subject of any country at war rative. Unfortunately. our country with . . . who may have subse- has ben a peace-loving country and quently acquired Indian citizenship verS hospitable to all ,and sundry who in the same manner as a foreigner." have ever cared to come to our coun- try, and we have never done any- thing wrong to the Chinese who are This is the small purpose of this parti- settled in our country for a long time. cular Bill. There are certain persons When Burma was a part of India, in India like that. The hon. Member lakhs and lakhs of Chinese had come Shri Indrajit Gupta wanted to know and settled in Burma, and no objec- how many Chinese have acquired tio was ever raised, although Burma Indian citizenship either under article was a part of India. Similarly, in :; of the Constitution or subsequentl,.. Bengal and other places the Chinese J have got the figures here. Under are there in large numbers, but we article 5 of the Constitution, the total have never raised any objections number of Chinese who obtaiued about their living there. But now Indian citizenship or who we," treated since our country has been invaded as Indians was 430. Subsequently a by the Chinese, and olIr men are few persons of Chinese origin have being killed mercilessly in thousands become Indian citizens, either by and thousands, we cannot sit com- naturalisation or by registration. The placently and watch the movement 01 total there Is about 441. Therefore, t.hese people, whom we are not able what has now been done, so far &8 to watch at all. We talk here today, the first part of the present amending we talk somewhere in a meeting. Bill is concerned, is that in respect of About an hour after that, the Peking those whose parent or grandparents Radio announces what we in India were not of Indian origin, but, as in have done. How does thing leak out? th" present case, were Chinese in That means we are surrounded by origin, but who have subsequently people who are not in any manner become Indian citizens, certain regu- loyal to us. And where the loyalty latlon was necessary. The regulation of a particular person or citizen is or the eontrol of their conduct oa doubted, It Is In the interests of the the same footing as foreigners has to country that steps must be taken as be made. So, the only purpose of Jllrovfded for in this law. I therefore making this Act self-contained 90 far Kay that in these days it is m1!et and as foreigners are concerned, Is.., proper that this law must be put Into place .ruch persons, whose origin was force. I support the BiU. not of Ind1&, but, as I have poInted Forcigners Laws NOVEMBER 19, 1962 (Application and 2270 Amendment) Bill [Shri DatarJ out in this connection. was China, original Act of 1946 similar expre3- ·on this footing. As my hon. friend sions: 'arrested, detained or confined'. Shri Saraf rightly pointed out, we A detained person was a detenu. The have to be vigilant with regard to this Io.on. Member suggested that we might dass of persons. So, it is only for accept the expression 'detenu'. But a those who have subsequently acquired detenu need not necessarily mean a Indian citizenship that certain provi- perSOn who is actually interned. An sions have to be made, and such per- internee is interned in a particular sons have to be treated as foreigners camp. A man might be released on for the purpose of the Foreigners Act parole and he might be confined to a of India. and it is only in respect of particular place or may stay in a them that the present provision has particular place. As the hon. Mem- been brought forward. ber knowR all of us were detenu and once 1 refused to obey an order on Another point was raised by certain parole and therefore 1 was sentenced. hon. friends as to whether these A detenu is one who might remain in words would be made applicable to a particular place without actually ·others. I have noted what Shri being interned behind the prison. Indrajit Gupta has stated about the There is some distinction, especially hardship or inconvenience that· may of a descriptive character. Section be caused to others. I may point out 4(1) of the original Act makes this that the words have been used in distinction and says that an internee such a careful manner that only when is one who has been detained in an any other country either commits an internment camp. So, he has to be act of aggression or goes to war with described as an internee. India, can further action be taken. That is the reason why 1 have stated Shri U. M. Trivedi: I am sorry to that enabling powers have been taken disturb the hon. Minister but I wish by Government, and that is the reason to say this. "Why it has been stated: Shri Datar: Let me complete the or of any other country sentence. Section 4( 1) was treated as assisting the country at war with invalid and had to be dropped in view or committing such aggression sf the provisions regarding Preventive against India ...... Detention in the Constitution itself. 1 am relying. upon the circumstances These are of an enabling nature, and to show that in the original Act itself therefore everything will be done a distinction was made between an extremely carefully. internee and a detenu and a person who may be on parole. The next point raised by my hon. friend Shri Kamath was with regard Shri U. M. Trivedi: It is only on to clause 4. So far as clause 4 is con- this particular point that 1 want to cerned, you will find that the ordi- draw your attention. That section nance came into effect on 26th has been omitted on 19th January, October, 1962 and this particular Bill 1957 from the original Act itself; it is in furtherance of that ordinance, no longer exists. If it does not exist. so that there should be no break at unless and until it is restored. how all. can that be used here?

Then, a number of hon. friends Shri Dari Vishnn Kamath: May 1. wanted me to put in a definition of by your leave, Sir, supplement that the expression Uinternee" or "intern- my hon. friend has said? The word ment". This word 4internee' has a 'internee' has been defined afresh 10 -descriptive tovch. We had in the this Order. I do not knElW whether 2271 Foreigners Laws KARTIKA 28. IBM (SAKA) (Application and 2272 Amendment) BilL he has overlooked this. Internee, it Mr. Deputy-8peaker: But his says here, means a person arrested or objection is you have not defined it. liable to be arrested under paragraph Shri Datar: It is not necessary. of this order. Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Then it Shri Datar: There was some distinc- is a definite alteration from the earlier tion between an internee in a parti- order. Why this anomaly? cular internment camp and a man being technically detained but allowed Shri Indrajit Gupta: The Minister to remain on Darole. did not make any reference to the point about the discrepancy between Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He does not Ordinance and the Bill? dispute that. He wants to know why Shri Datar: The position has been you do not define it here. made quite clear in the Bill. The Shri Datar: What we have done is Ordinance was there but the whole that we are introducing certain pro- position was considered and the visions including the restoration of matter was placed beyond doubt in certain original provisions in the the present Bill. Foreigners' Act itself, which had pro- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The Bill is ceeded on the footing of a distinction an improvement on the Ordinance. between internee and a person on Now, I shall put it to the vote of the parole. The same thing has been House. The question is: continued. We are saying here, in this clause: any foreigner, hereinafter ''That the Bill to apply the referred to as an internee. Actually Registra tion of Foreigners Act, It is a descriptive portion. In these 1939 and the Foreigners Act, circumstances, the attempt is to make 1946 to certain persons to whom the Foreigners' Act complete in this they do not at present apply and by an inclusive defintion and by further to amend the Foreigners restoring the provisions with regard Act, 1946, be taken into considera- to detention which were in the origi- tion." nal Act but had to be removed when The ~ was adopted. the Constitution was passed and articles 21 and 22 came into force. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question is: Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: On a "That Clause 2 .tand part of the point of clarification, Sir. May I ask Bill." whether still the Minister is in doubt as to how the word internee should The motion was adopted. be defined. He has given us a con- notation of his own. I have read the Clame 2 Wll$ added to the Bill. definition given in this notification. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There is an He is not clear in his mind. amendment to clause 3. Is it moved! Sir, I am Shri ~r This is a comprehen- Shri Bade (Khargone): sive Bill, complete in itself. moving the amendment. I beg to move: SlIri Hari Vishnu Kamath: There Page I, line 18, is no definition at all in the Bill. add at the end- Shri Datar: Any foreigner called "or interned." (1) an internee th3t is there in clause 4(1); it is clear and I have read it. Shri Hari Vishnu J[amaih: Sir, the Any foreigner hereinafter referred to Minister ought to be a little more as an internee ...... clear to the House. Frem the General 2273 Foreigners Laws NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Metai To/ce., , (Application and (Amendment) Bill Amendment) Bill [Shri Harish Vishnu Kamath] Clauses Act or other enactments, he to answer the question that I raised, must tell us why it is different from and that is with regard to the order Lt,e words used. Does he think that of the President. I do not know it comprehends or includes intern- whethpr he has got a copy of that ment also? Otherwise, it should be order. dated 5th November, with him. included to make it comprehensive. [ had suggested that the same proviso should be adopted with regard to thi" Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He explained )rder as has been adopted with regard the difference between internee and to the order passed in respect of the detenu. suspension of fundamental rights. That should apply only to cases where Shr! Bar! Vishnu Kamath: that In the person is debarred of the rights case it should be included here. under this particular Act and the Shri Datar: It is quite sufficient; it Defence of India Act and rules and has been made specifically clear and not under any other enactment that descriptive. is in force. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: shall put Shri Datar: That is not necessary. the amendment to the vote of the Shr! Hati Vishnu Kamath: He ~ House. just sitting quiet and simply says it The amendment was put and is not necessary! negatived. Shri Datar: The Defence' of India Bill is before the House. That is com- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question plete in itself. This relates only to i!!: the provisions relating to foreigner. "That Clause 3 stand part of and persons to be deemed as foreig- the Bill." ners and therefore it is not necessary. The motion was adopted. Shri Bar! Vishnu Kamath: I am Ctause 3 was added to the Bill. only pointing out the anomaly between the two orders. Clause 4 was added to the Bill. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question 14 hi'll. is: Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question "That the Bill be passed." is: The motion was adopted. "That clause I, the Enacting Formula and the Long Title stand part of the Bill." lU2 hrs. The motion was adopted. METAL TOKENS (AMENDMENT) Clause I, the Enacting Formula and BILL the Long Tit Ie were added to the Bill. The Deputy Minister in the Minis- try of Finance (Shri B. R. Bhapl) = Shri Datar: I beg to move: Sir, I beg to move: "That the Bill be passed." ''That the Bill further to amend Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion moved: the Metal Tokens Act, 1889, be taken into consideration." "That the Bill be passed." The object of this measure is simple SIlri Bari Vishnu Kamath: Before and non-controversial. The Metal the motion !a put to vote, I would Tokens Act prohibits the makinc or ask the Minlster one thing. He forgot the possession for issue or the Issue 2275 Metal Tokens KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Petroleum Pipelines 2276 (Amendment) Bill (Acquisition of Right of Users in Land) Bill by pri va te persons of pieces of metal Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question lor use as money. The Act, as it is: ~s at present, does not apply to those territories which, prior to the ''That clauses 2 to 4 stand part reorganisation of States in 1956, com- of the Bill." prised Part B States. This is because The motion wG.' adopted. the Act as originally passed in 18811 was applicable only to the whole of Clauses 2 to 4 were added to the Bill. what was then British India and did Clause I, the Enacting Formula and cover those Indian States which not the Long Title were added to the BiU. later on merged with Independent India as Part B States. The justifica- 8hri B. R. Bhagat: I move: tion for excluding former Indian States from the jurisdiction of this "That the Bill be passed." Act was that some of them had their Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion own coinage. Such justification does moved: not exist any longer with the federal financial integration of all former ''That the Bill be passed." Indian States and their final integra- tion in the Indian Union. There is Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question now only one coin issuing aathority is: in the whole of India, namely, the ''That the Bill be passed." Central Government. It is, therefore, necessary to make the Act applicable The motion was adopted. to the whole of India uniformly. This Act was not extended to the Part B States and to .Tammu and Kashmir at the time when various other Cen- 14.05 hrs. tral Acts, etc., were so extended owing to oversight. The Bill is there-_ PETROLEUM PIPELINES (ACQUI- fore designed to rectify this omission SITION OF RIGHT OF USER IX by suitably amending the extension LAND) BILL clause of the Act, namely, sub-section (2) of section 1 and by carrying out The Deputy Minister in the MinJs- cprtain further verbal changes in try of Mines and Fuel (Shri Hajar- • ection 2 and section 6 of the Act Davis): Sir, on behalf of Shri K. D . nc('cssitated by the aforesaid amend- Malaviya, I beg to move: ment. "That the Bill to provide for The provisions of the Bill are, as I the acquisition of right of user in ~ non-controversial and I trust land for laying petroleum pipe- that the House will not have any lines and for matters connected difficulty in accepting this Bill. With therewith, be taken into considera- these words, I move. tion." Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion moved: The question of laying pipelines hila ''That the Bill further to amend become important as we have been the Metal Tokens Act, 1889 be fortunate in discovering indigenous taken into consideration." SOurces of oil .and it is hoped that our indigenous supply would increaae Well, nobody has risen to speak. The with further investigation being question is: carried out. It is admitted on Bll ''That the Bill further to amend hands that there is no method of the Metal Tokens Act, 1889 be transportation which is as efficient, as taken into consideration." reliable and as eeonomical as pipe- The motion was adopted. ~s We have laid some pipelines 2277 Petroleum. NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Pipelines (Acquisition of Right of U SeT in Land) Bil! [Shri Hajarnavis] but SO tar there is no measure which meaning. So has petroleum. Then enables Us to acquire the mere right the word "prescribed" follows: of user in the land. The pipelines laid so far have been laid on land Clause 3 is the starting point of 'the which had been acquired either under process of acquisition. Clause 3 (1) the Land Acquisition Act or by pur- reads as follows: chase by private treaty. But it is not "Whenever it appears to the necessary that all the right in the land Central Government that it i, should be acquired in order to lay necessary in the public interest pipelines. It would be economical if that for the transport of petro- we merely acquire the right of user leum from one locality to another in the land. It would ~ not locality pipelines may be laid by be proper for us to exclude the lands that Government or by any State which we have . acquired for laying Government or a corporation and the pipelines from agricultural opera- tha t for the purpose of laying tions Dr for any other use to which such pipelines it is necessary to it can be put. Anticipating one of the acquire the right of user in any s~rs of the Bill, the House will land under which such pipelin"" be happy to know that we do not may. be laid, ... intend to acquire any land, as has been set out in clause 7 (1) (c), the depth of which is less than one metre So, although land can be acquired for from the surface, so that the line will laying such pipelines, we will only lie deep in the bowels of the earth. acquire the right of user in the land under which the pipeline will go. Then follows the usual procedure with which the House is acquainted. As under the Land Acquisition Act, objections are invited and decided; Again, I would emphasise that we the actual dimension of the right 'do not intend to acquire all rights which has to be acquired is given in which vest in the owner but merely clause 7 where it has been said that a right of user which will mainly after the right of user is vested, it consist of laying the pipeline one will be subject to the following metre below the surface of the earth limitations: and getting a right to perform such ancillary acts as are necessary to "Provided that no pipeline maintain, to service and to use of the shall be laid under- pipeline. (a) any land which, imme- diately before the date of the notification under SUb-section In the first instance, this Act has (1) of section 3, was used for been extended only to the States of residenl;al purposes:" West Bengal, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh and Gujarat where either a refinery is If there was any apprehension felt situated or oil wells are found. Then anywhere in any quarter, that anyone there is the definition clause which will be deprived of his right in regard calls for some mention. The compe- to residential accommodation, that has tent authority is the authocity which been provided for: will assess, in the first instance, the compensation to be paid, and that "any land on which there slands competent authority is to be designat- any permanent structure which ed by the Central Government. Then was in existence im",ediately the word "corporation" has the usual before the said date;" 2279 Petroleum KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Pipelines (Acqui- 228() rition of Right of User in Land) BiZ! and harm to the pipeline. This has been "any land which is appurten- made clear by section 9. Sub-clause ant to a dwelling house;" (2) says: are excluded from acquisition. As "The owner or occupier of the said earlier, any land which is under land under which any pipeline a depth which is less than I metre from the surface of the ~r will not be has been laid shall not do any act or permit any act to be done acquired. which will or is likely to cause Clause 10 provides for compensa- any damage in any manner what- tion, which' shall be determined by soever to the pipeline." the competent authority in the first instance and if there is any dispute, So, this casts upon him a civil liability there isa reference to the District and section 15 provides the penalty if Judge. Sub-clause (4) says: this provision is contravened. "Where the right of user of any These are the main features of the land has vested in the Central Bill, which I commend to the House Government, the State Govern- for its acceptance. ment or the corporation, the Central Government, the State Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion moved: Government or the ~rr as he case may be, shall in addi- "That the Bill to provide for the t:cn to the compensation. if any, acquisition of right of user in land payable under sub-section (1), be for laying petroleum pipelines and liable to pay to the owner and to for matters connected therewith, any other person whose right of be taken into consideration." enjoyment in that land has been Shri Dinen Bhattacharya ~r affected in any manner whatso- pore): Sir, I fully agree with' the ever by reason of such vesting, purpose for which the Bill has been compensation calculated at ten introduced and I support the Bill as per cent of the market value of such. While doing so, I would submit that land on the date of the noti- that some provisions incorporated in fication under sub-section (!) of this Bill, if not reconsidered and section 3." changed, would cause serious hara3s- The House wiII notice that we have men t and hardship to those people been generous. We are giving not whose land will be acquired. merely the estimated loss or 10 per cent of the estimated loss. Under the Under the Land Acquisition Act, I provisions of the Land Acquisition have seen in many cases that before Act, market value plus 15 per cent is acquisition, the notice for acquisition payable. Here, in addition to the is not actually received by the man compensation, we are paying 10 per whose land is acquired. The period cent of the market value. The market of filing obj ection there also is very value is bound to be much higher short, namely. 21 days. This perioQ than the loss or injury caused by the is too short. right of user vesting in the Central The most harassing feature is in Government, the State Government respect of payment of compensation. or the corporation. So, we have been Both the rate of compensation and the generous. mode of payment under this Bill are It is clear that after the right Of such that I would suggest to th .. user has been acquired, the owner MinisteT that certain chanltes should shall be free to use that land in any he made to ~ the Bill a perfect manner he chooses, subject, of nne. Clause 3 (3) must provide that course, to his not causing injury or actually the man whose land is to be Petroleum NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Pipelines (Acquisition of Right 01 User in Land) Bin r8hri Dinen Bhattacharya1 acquired must receive the notice that down as to how the market value will his land will be taken for laying be assessed. petroleum pipeline Or any other pipe- line. A clear provIsIon should bp. Also, it says that 10 per cent of the there to that effect. market value will be paid as compen- sation. Under the Land Acquisitio. Regarding hearing of objections, Act, it is 15 per cent, as the Minister under clause 5(1), the period is only himself said. I do not know why It 21 days. This should be increased 1:0 should be 10 per cent here. I suggest 31 days Clause 6(3) says: that as in the Land Acquisition Act, here also it must be 15 per cent. Here "Where in respect of any land, there is no question of big lands being a notification has been issued acquired; only small portions of land under sub-section (1) of section 3 will be acquired. So, if it is paid at but no declaration under this sec- 15 per cent. it would not cost much. ti on has been published wi thin a period of ooe year from the date Clause 13 (2) provides that no suit of that notification, that notifica- Or other legal proceeding shall lie tion shall cease to have effect on against the .concerned authority for the expiration of that period." damage caused by anything done in would suggest that instead of one good faith. If anything is done in year, it should be made six months, good faith, yOU cannot go to any court because if within six months land is not for any loss or damage. I do not see taken, it necessarily will mean that any reason for the incorporation of the Government or the. concerned such a clause here. I would humblT authority does not require that land. suggest that it should not be incor- So, I suggest that instead of aile year, para ted here. it should be six months. With these few words, I fully sup- ClaUSe 10(4) provides for compen- port the purpose of the Bill.. sation at 10 per cent of the markett value. But 'marke( value' is a vague '" ~ ~ term. It should be clarified here, as ~1 ..~ ~ ~ li\Tlf.t ;;it R to how market value is to be calculat- ~ q I't;q<'ll ~ ('Z'fei)"1?141"1!!!T$ ed us:c !!!T$ 1fR ~ ~ f.r.r wr ll1IT Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Sub-clause ~ M it ~ ~ m 1'~ (5) provides for that. m ~ ~ ~ ~ In{ Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: What are mw; "C('fi' i1T m- "Where otherwise survey cannot ¥'f ~ ~ ;r ~ ~ r.m: ~ f.r.r be completed and levels taken <'fl1IT lT1:rT ~ I ~ foror iT ~ '!l1 and the boundaries and line marked, to cut down and clear ~~ it ~ ~ ~ f'F ~ ;;r;rcrr away any part of any standing ~ ~ '!l1 ~ aT'f> W '!i1:, ~ '!l1 crop, fence or jungle." ~ ~ if;, 11;'F ~ it 'rrr~ '!l1 ;;iT W'fiT o;roi ~ ~ f'F WR fm ;;pft;r ~ ~ lfTt(f ~ ~ ~ '1ft ~ , 'R ~ ~ ~ eft rn f'Fm 'F<: if;, ~ 'FT¥ '!l1 T ~ 'f>1{ ~ );[T ~ fm ~ '~'1~ m ''~ if; RT o;roi 11;'F ~ 00 ~ I Bf.!;;r under sub-section (1) of section ~ f.r<;r it ~r ~ ~ '1ft ifib- ~ object to the laying of the pipe- lines under the land." ;fro;r it m'fil": ~ WRT ~ ~~ fWn' '!i1: T o;roi ~ fif; ~ '!l1 ~ ~ ~ (T If

:J140 (Ai) LSD--I. Petroleum NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Pipelines (Acquisition 228& of Right of User in Land) Bill ["1T '1"%] (ti) a company formed and of any matter which the compe- registered under any law relat- tent authority is empowered by ing to companies formerly in or under this Act to determine· force in any part of India." and no injunction shall be granted by any court or other authority ~~~wr~'~ in respect of any action taken or 'fiT ~ 'ifIft'f ~ 'fi<: if; ;fr ;;mftft I proposed to be taken in pursuance wn: ~ 'fiT '3~ fu1 +1"1 W 5~ 'flIT ~ I fufu;r 't>"li if; ~ "m +1"1 'fi1i m1l:ffG" itllT f't>" ;;r;r ~ 1''~ if; ifTf 'r~ 'i,':;f'ffl'1 ;;-@ ~ fif;1 'Iff I ,,1 ~ ~ ~ ~wr ~ ~ W 'flIT ~ fr"r 'TICr 1 'fiT ~1 'f.l:i11 ~ I ~ ;;-@ ~ I II 'R!RT ~ ~ ~ m.: ~ ~ ''~ '~~1 ~' if; ~ 1'~ q-rif ''The decision of the District ~ ~ ~ 'ti if 'f ~1 provided in this Act no civil court t, .rn: shall haVe jurisdiction in respect OfT WRIT ~ I ~ 'fi ''~''' 'f ~ PetToleum KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Pipelines (Acqui- 2288 sition of Right of UseT in Land) Bill

~~~~~~ 'l': ~ m ~ ~ fit; mwr 't>'f ~ ~~~~~~~ ~ f.rfrtfur '!mIT ~ ~ ~ wr'~~~~~~ ~ IITmn' ~ I ~ fu;r if ~ '!ili ~ if 'fflT'Y ~ ~ '1ft ~ fu;r if <:Ii m<: fumr 'fi'Ii 'f; ~ ~ ~ ~ fW ~ I iflf ~ I if;q.r ~ ~ 'f; mr ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~'~~ I ~~~~'~1 ~ '11 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ fit; if;q.r ~ ~ 'fliT

~ m'fi ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ;;wllT I '~ Shri Gauri Shankar Kakkar (Fateh- ...... in the case of these pipe- pur) : Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, it lines it is considered sufficient to has been suggested that in order to acquire the mere right of user in shorten the proceedings and make it the land for laying and maintain- easier this enactment has been under- ing the pipelines." taken. Otherwise there was sufficient provision in the Land Acquisition Act. But in that case should have been ~ ~ ~ ~ it Ii' fit; if;q.r seen that adequate relief is given to iific lfT ~ ~ ~ ~ ~r ~ the person from whom land is taken. ~ F lfT SfI«f ~ I :a-m ~ My first objection is this. Here it is ~ me: SfI«f ~ ~ I mr If'!i involved that the right of user is taken. The right of user in any parti_ ifTG' M;-l: ~ '1[f ~ ~ I ~ cular land is only a sort of easemen- fu;r if if;q.r me: ~ ~ ~ cfi ~ tary right, and no period has been ;tT 1fT'fiC ~ 'f; ~ ~ '~ ~ suggested. The actual ownership is not being taken; the right of user is ~~~~~~ being taken. But for that right of 'Ff\;f'lft 1fT'fiC ~ 'f; ~ ~ 'f; ~ user no period or time has been sug- ~~ ~~~ gested in it. Generally it so ~ that whenever there is a right of user, ~ '1ft mtt ;;n:fA" '3'nr 'f; m it is an easementary right and it (al\ ~ Wr1, ~~ 'l'l'liT '[ft 'Ff\;f. be revoked by the owner or ~ ~''~~1 But here there is a specific provision that it cannot be challenged in any ~ ~ ~ court. Still no period has been spe- ;;fmf.t; ...rr if cified for this user of the land. ~ ~ if ~ ~r ~ ~ fit; ~ .m: In clause 2 the competent authority ~ om ~ I ~ ~~'1 it'fC if '+I'{ has not been defined. It has been ~ ~ ~ ~ m<: ~ m<'f 00Ii' suggested that 'competent authority' ~~~~1~' means any person or authority autho- rised by the Central Government, by ~~''~~1 mlfrn: n0tification in the Official Gazette, to Petroleum NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Pipelines (Acquisition 2290 of Right of U seT in Land) Bil!

[Shri Gauri Shanker Kakkar] perform the functions of the compe- relating to companies formerly in force tent authority under this .\ct. My in any part d India. I have to submit obiection is that there should b" a that if the provisions were confined to specific mention of what officer will the Central Govenunent and the State act as the competent authority. ~'r Government, there would not have that purpoSe I would suggest that it been any sort of apprehension. But should not be less than a sub-division- now when the same privileges are al officer at least at the district level. being given to a private company, I apprehend that there will be ccn"in Then, much hgs been ;aid about mischief also coming into play. So it market value. Really, the word was talked out in this House thlt a 'market value' i.s a very vague term. private company should not be given Especially, if a particular bit of land any sort of right to take any land ie; taken which is growing crop, in that which is under cultivation from the case the tenant is definitely a loser if tenant, because the bona fides in the only the market value is assessed. My case of a private company are never suggestion is, if you are closing the clear and there are chances of foul powers of the court and making it an play. So I submit that this clause be easier process, then the compen.;ation deleted, and let it be kept onlv in the should be assessed on the basis of the case of the Central Govcrnm·ent and annual produce over that particular State Governments. land which is taken, in the cases Then again, as has been suggested, where cultivation is being done. And I do agree that unless personal notices for the purpose of the annual assess- are served on the actual person's from ment of the produce of that particular whom the land is required to be taken, land, I would suggest that a period of mere notification in the Gaz'"tte will thir.y or forty years be taken, and the not do any justice. There will be person should be paid a rate of com- thousands of cases cropping lip where pensation based on the annual produce they will have no information actually, calculated in those forty years. That and s~ they will be losing their can give some relief. In certain cases valuable right. So there should be a market value is a very negligible sum, mandatory provision that any person and it will not be able to give relief whose land is being taken has t, be to those cultivators who are actually served with personal notice and only raising crops over that land which is then the objection should be invited. taken, as compared to the other lands Therefore, this clause should be add"d which are w~ lands and where no that in addition to the notification in crop is raised. So it would be equi- the Gazette, personal notices will also table and it would be more justified if be issued to those persons from whom in the case of compensation it is the land is required to be taken. calculated according b the annual crop being raised over that particular Again, it will create certain diffi- area whiCh is being taken for the use culties in those areas where consolida- of the pipeline. tion of holdings has been undertaken. It is not necessary that the pipe-line Again, I have "" objection to this will pass from the corner of certain definition of the word 'corporation' chak or holding; it may pass from the Clause 2 (b) says that 'corporatiO!" middle of that chak, In that case means anybodY corporate established there will be certain pieces cut off under any Centrnl, Provincial or State from the patch which has been given. Act, and includes (i) a company In that respect I would ",ubmit that in formed and registered under the Com- such are"''' where consolidation of panies Act, 1956, and (ii) a company holdings has been finished or under- formed and registered under any law taken it should be taken into con- 2291 Petroleum KARTlKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Pipelines (.4cqui- 2292 sition of Right of User in Land) Bill sr~ that those chaks shollid r~ pW'poses, that is, for sowing, not be brought int:> pieces when these CUtti.l"lg etc. When the pipeline is laid, pIpelines are laid. For that it would a strip of land of a width of, s~ 10, be very easy if the particular amalga- 12 or 15 feet, would be used but not mated area which belongs to a parti- the whole 0[ the land. The whole of cular tenant is kept into consideration. the land would not be nece.;sary or All these things will facilitate and go affected. But the proviSIon in this to safeguard the interests of the Bill is:- tenants. "Any person interested in the In the end I would submit that if land may within twenty-one days the Government wishes to make it an from the date of the notification easier process, then in the same under sub-section (1) of section 3, manner the facilitie:3 and 3me:1lties ,_ bj ect to the laying of the pipe- should also be looked into. And ii, as lines under the land." I have suggested, the assessment of compensation is calculated on the basis N ow, "under the land" means the of the annual yield of the crop and if whole land and not the strip of land. all thesc other things are done, then the actual tenant or the actual land- Shri Hajarnavis: No, only the strip lord will find it convenient. Other- of land. wise he will stand to lose most by (his Shri Sonavane: But the Bill does enactment which has been suggested. not specifically say that. Therefore, the land would be the whole of the land Shri Sonavane (Pandharpur): I rise under the holding or in the pJssession b support this Bill whiCh was neces- of the man under whose land the sary and essential for speedy acquisi- pipeline would go. I think, some tion of land for laying pipelines. I specific provision to ~ effect is agree with the hon. Minister that the esoential; otherwise, 'land' would refer acquisition of land under the Land to the whole land through which lhe Acquisition Act was cumbersome, pro- pipeline would go. So, one of my longed and it would hamper the work suggestions is that a specific reference of laying the pipelines. Therefore, should be made in the nolifieation to Government has taken recourse to the strip of land or to the portion or bringing this enactment. area, that is, gunthas or acres or While supporting the Bill I have to whatever it is, that would be required place some views of mine before the and it should not be kept vague by hon. Minister for his consideration. saying only 'land'. No doubt 1- have not given any amend- Another point that I want to sug- ment, but when my views are before "gest is this. Usually the notifications him he may consider amendment of come to light, or are placed in the the relevant provisions in the Bill 8"3 hands of the public, generally ten or he deems fit. twelve days after the date of notifica- First of all, no idea is given in this tion and it becomes difficult for a Bill as to the depth up to which a perSGn who is interested in or is pipeline will be laid. If the depth is affected by the notification to hurry up known .... with his objection. Then, generally, the illiterate and ignorant peasants Shri Rajaranavis: It will not be less who would be affected by thi·o would than one metre. not know of the provisions of the noti- Shri Sonavane: Ametre means ficationby which they would be affect- three feet or 90. So, the pipeline ed. Therefore my suggestion would three feet underground may not affect be that wide publicity should be given the ploughing operations of a peasent . to the notification in the local or and he can make use of his land for vernacular papers SO that those 2293 Petroleum NOVEMBER 19, 1962 Pipelines (Acquisition 2294 of Right of U seT in Land) BHl [Shri Sonavane] persons who would be affected would This only refer5 to the acqui5iUon of get the knowledge that their land land. What about the buildings on would be affected and that, jf there is such lands? The alignment of the any objection, they should send ",ritten pipelines would not necessarily go objections to the authorities concern- through vacant land. I cannot fay if ed. Therefore, I put forth this sug- the pipeline is to be laid through gestion that thi'5 acq uisi tion of land vacant land At some time it will and the land t:> be affec:ed shoald be take a curv'e;sometimes it will take given wide publicity in local :>aper5. a bend and all that thing. Then, the flow of petrol, crude oil or petrol products weuld be hamper2d. The han. Deputy Minister, who is piloting this Bill, says that a strip of Shri Dajarnavis: Will the han. land only would be affected. If the Member refer to clause 7? strip of land is affected, I would agree that ~ would be a reasonable thing. Shri Sonavane: I will complete this But there is no reference to it. It is point and then the hon. Minister can said that no planting of trees, cons- reply. truction of any buildings etc. should be undertaken or done by the holder There is no intention that this pipe- of the land. If the strip is earmarked line should be in a zigzag way. If it and specifically stated in the !1otifica- is to be straight, certainly some build- tion, 1t would be all right, but if it i3 ings or houses would be affected. I kept vatue by saying 'land', the feel, this point also should be taken peasant who is holding an area larger note of and the han. Minister may than the strip of land required would refer to this. be prevented from digging a well in the whole of his land Or from having Shri Bajarnavis: Sir, I am grateful irrigation, planting of trees etc. The to han. Members for the very kind right of the user is all right, parti- and wide support they have given to cularly for the strip of the land. After this measure. We will certainly take laying down the pipelines, t.he work into consideration the very valuable of the Act would be over and the suggestions whiCh have fallen from pea3aIlt can carry on the operations of han. Members. In particular 1 find sowing, ploughing etc. without affect- myself c"mpletely in5ympathy with ing the pipeline. But it is only 'land' the suggestion made almost unani- which is mentiOOled and there is no mously by all han. Members, begin- specific mention of the strip of land ning with Shri Bhattacharya and end- unle3S the Gazette specifically mMl- ing with my han. friend, Shri Sona- tions the strip of land; I think, then vane that it would be essential to only the right of the user, compensa- give' a personal notice to the per,;on tion whatever is to be paid etc. would through wh05e land the pipeline is be reasonable and the peasant under propoo,,""ed t() be laid. I believe though whose land the pipeline would go there is no amendment, it would be would not be put to hardship or to a possible for us to frame a rule under disadvantage. the first part of clause 17 (1) . I thought, it was covered by clause 17 The last ooint that I would mention (2) (a) also. But the term3 of clause i., thi_. ~ refers only to the acquisi- 17 (1) which permit us to frame rules tion of land. Clause 3, line 15, says: to carry out the Act would enable us b frame a rule by which the compe- "it is necessary to acquire the tent authority wonld be enjoined to right of user in any land ~ issue a notice in proper form to all which such pipelines may be laid . the persons whOile names are recorded 2295 Petroleum KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Pipelines (Acqui- 2296 sition oj Right of User in Land) Bill in the pUblic records. It would not be are observations which you w:lI lind possible for us to find out who the true that the basic concept of compensatIon ·owner is or in whom the title is legally ~ that it must put the person who vested because that would set us upon hdo been deprived of some thing in an enquiry which we would not be such a position that he is not an ",,0- able to conduct, but all the persons nomic loser because he has lost the whose names are recorded in the property, and for that purpose, he }lublic records or the revenue records must be paid the amount that he should be given a notice, say, a usual would have got if he had sold the pro- n)!ice according to whatever th" pro- perty in the market. cedure i's under the revenue law of the State, or a registered notice. That, About the other point. I will not I think, is essential and I would assure repeat what I said earlier. As I said, hon. Members that when the rules ,.re the right of user i; very much less framed, we will keep this in our mind. than full ownership. It will be a frac- tion of the total rights. What is being Then, the question carne of defining paid tJ the person is less than their market value. My cwn experience market value. We are paying 10 per i's, the moment We begin to define, we cen t of the market value of the land.

Mr. Deputy·Speaker: Motion Shri A. K. Gopalan (Kasergod): moved: rise to support all the Supplementary Demands for Grants presented before "That a supplementary sum not the House. These Supplementary De- exceeding Rs. 4.50,00,000 be mands are a logical follow-up of the gran ted to the President to defray firm determination of this House ex- the charges which wilI come in pressed the other day to drive away course of payment during the year the Chinese aggressors from our ter- ending the 31st da)' of March, ritory. After having unanimously 1963, in respect of 'Indian Posts adopted the resolution moved by the and Telegraphs Department'.". Prime Minister, expressing the united will of the Indian people, the time has DEMAND ·No. ll1-SECRETARIAT OF THE now come for us to translate that VICE-PRESIDENT determination into concrete actions and deeds. Mr. Deputy-Speaka: Motion moved: The most important of these con- "That a supplementary sum not crete deeds is, naturally, the acquisi- exceeding Rs. 56,000 be tion of the necessary military power granted to the President to defray for throwing the Chinese aggressors the charges which will come in out. Naturally, the primary instru- course of payment during the year ment of this task is our Armed Forces. ending the 31st day of March, They have to be augmented both in 1963, in respect of 'Secretariat of human and in material resources. the Vice-President'.". They have to be provided with up-to- date, efficient and suitable weapons. Fresh reinforcements have to be re- DEMAND No. 114-DEFENCE CAPITAL cruited, trained, mobilised and led. OUTLAY All s~ will certainly strain our limited resources to the utmost. Al- lUr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion ready, we were engaged in the hercu- moved: lean task of the development of our economy for bettering the lot of our "That a supplementary sum not people. Even the limited soccesses exceeding Rs. 20,00,00,000 be which we were having and which we granted to the President to defray achieved required the sacrifices of the the charges which wilI come in common people. The new situation courSe of payment during the year will further strain our economy, and ending the 31st day of March, will divert our limited resources into 1963, in respect of 'Defence Capi- uaproductive channels. But this is a tal Outlay'.". task which we cannot postpone. ~ NOVEMBER 19, 1962 for Supplementary Grants (General) [Shri A. K. Gopalan] emphasising very often. among the Comi;"g to the Supplementary De- existing patent laws and trade marks mands for Grants out of the hundred and stop also the treks abroad for odd crores of s~r grants purchases. now demanded, nearly Rs. 95 crores are meant for defence purposes Rs. 75 In this connection, I want to empha- crores of revenue and Rs. 20 crores of sise that the arms purchases being capital expenditure. A casual look at made should be strictly on a commer- the details of the expenditure will cial basis. I know, ~ course, that show that out of the Rs. 75 crores of there is practically no free trade in revenue expenditure on defence, the them It has to be purchased either lion's share goes for the expenditure in the in terna tiona I black market or on the acquisition of equipment and at fabulous prices or It has to be got stores. Rs. 20 crores for the ordnance by political arrangements, on a gov- factories, Ro. 24 crores for the pur- ernment to government basis. When chases outside the Government ord- coming to such arrangements, we have nance factories, and Rs. 4 crores for to be vigilant about being tricked by Air Force stores; this comes to a total attachment of political strings to such of Rs. 48 crores. Undoubted,y, I am deals. sure that quite a sizeable proportion of this expenditure will have to be in- curred in foreign exchange for the Another point is this. There are purchase of weapons from abroad. voices being raised in the country that planning should be dropped and social In this connection. I have to say services etc. should be cut down to that only the other day. the Prime help defence effort. As the Prime Mi- Minister enunciated OUr country's poli- nister said the other day, we are Cy as far as the purchase of arma- opposed to such course of iction. After ments and the armament industry are all what is defence if it is not based concerned. I agree fully with that on' the economic strength and politi- declaration. But.· here I have to say cal stability of a nation? The verv that We should not forget that in the process of strengthening our defl!J.lcC past our efforts to produce modern means basing it on our own ecc010my weapons in our factories were ob- and the well-being of our ~ So structed by the private arms manu- we cannot neglect this aspect. facturers a broad by their claims on patent rights. I remember in this House itself when answering a ques- That brings us to the question of tion in 1954. the Prime Minister, who resources. We have two tasks. We was also Defence Minister then, said ha ve to prosecute an enhanced defence that our ordnance factories could not effort and simultaneously continue to undertake the manufacture of a num- plan fOr socio-economic development. ber of modern weapons due to objec- So it is very difficult to find the re- tions raised bv the foreign firms who sources. It is certainly heartenipg owned patent - rights. So though it that as far as defence measures are was possible for us to produce those concerned, we are seeing everyday weapons, we could not do so. that all sections of people, even the poorest sections, contribute according As the Prime Minister has said, we to their mite. Certainly as long as cannot go on purchasing arms from the emergency lasts, there will be abroad. In an emergency, we have more contributions. But these volun- to do it and should do it. But every tary contributions wilJ not be suifi- efl'ort must be made to use our mate- cient because we have to find resources rial and scientific and technical skill for defence as also for the continua- to produce our own weapons. For this tion of socio-economic development purpose, we should, as we have been plans. 2jCi7 Demands KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) for Supplementary :2.3 08 Grauts (General) So am plaCIng certain proposals must be done on a barter basis. Then before the House as to how resources there are Rs. 30-40 crores going as can be found specially in this emer- remittances abroad. At least 50 per gency; the first is that we should take cen t of these may be stopped till the OVer the banks fOr the emergency emergency is over and the amount period. I do not say nationalise them taken over. now, though We are of that opinion. Let that question be decided after- The next source of incf the people, at least become a sort of a social menace and of the higher income group and that a number of years more. The luxury ·could have been done by putting the social order has been jeopardised taxes on the people. That should . to a certain extent by the introduction have been one of the methods for of prohibition. There is be some re- keeping prices within certain limits. thinking and at this opportunity we Demancl8 KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) for Supp!ementary 2316 Grants (General) should keep aside our ideological is the idea of the Government? How niceties. We should take courage to will they finance this war? It is not scrap pro-scrap prohibition and get likely to De ~ smail affair of just the revenue out of it. four months or one year; it may conti- nUe for some years. We should make preparations on that ibasis. It may I do not suggest that we allow ~ for some years. The country peOPle to go on drinking merrily. would require total mobilisation of its That is being done in bigger, higher, r:'",:C; ,:es. We send our soldiers to official circles, practically in all the the front. They should be properly big clubs <:nd hotels. Government equipped. They make the highest should rather check these things. sacrifice. People of the country should There may be something to regu- also share their sacrifice in their res- late and control these thirrgs. pective fields. The only sacrifice that It has come to our notice in another we can do is to curtail our consump- connection that in colliery areas there tion, increase our production and get are a great deal of liquor shops. We ready to pay more tax and contri- should try to keep some days of the butiOn3. Contributions have been week as dry days in those areas but coming splendidly but it is not possi- most of the States have not complied ble for any Government to conduct with such a request when it was made. or finance a war with these contri- I do not like that the coalmine butions. The total may be about Rs. labourers should be allowed to drink 15 or Rs. 20 crores. I do not like to merrily. There should be some con- deprecate this. I appreciate the trol. But the general policy of pro- enthusiasm of the people who are hibition should be scrapped. making these contributions and most of them are coming from ordinary As for salt, the abolition of salt duty men not all from big men. But we has hardly benefited the poor con- realise that we cannot finance the war sumer. If you look into the price with these contributions. War structure, there is a big variation. If requires the total endeavour of the it sells in Gujarat or Maharashtra at Government, mobilisation of the fin- 5 or 6 nP. per seer, in Assam and ancial resources of every man in the Manipur it sells at five or six annas country, not only the rich but also the per seer and not all this difference is ~r We require the imposition of due to the transport expenses. Most taxes and the declaration of the policy of it goes into the pocket of the pro- regarding the ~ the war -and fiteers. What is the harm then, if we economy in administration. With these put a small tax on salt and tl"y to words, I sUppOrt these demands. sell it all over the country at the same price. It is the barest necessity for every individual and it should be Shri U. M. Trivedi (Mandsaur): obtained at a reasonable price all over Mr. Deputy Speaker, eight ye!!rs ago the country, so that people may not when Mr. Guha was Minister of State buy it at profiteering prices. he was not willing to accept the pro- position about taxing salt. Today Any war creates a situation where things have changed. We must be the profiteers make bigger profits. practical in our outlook. Whatever There has been no indication, I am sentiments we may possess about the sorry to say, in these supplementary slaughter of cows, necessity has led demands about any measure to check us to this position that slaughter of that. This Budget should have been cows is going on with all the protests presented with some remarks about coming from various parts of the some policy declaration of the Gov- country and from various people .... ernment about financing the war. They have just presented it as an An Hon. Member: What has slaugh- ordinary supplementary budget. What ter of cows to do with Defence? Demands NOVEMBER 19, 1962 for Supplementary Grants (General) 8hri U. M. Trivedi: My hon. friend chosen to provide him with a staff may hear me for a while. Prohibition car; although the expenditure is not is not as sacrosanct as cow slaughter. much, I do not know why at this We have indulged in this for long and juncture this thing has been formulat- it has deprived us of the revenue and ed. While he could carryon without the Centre has also to contri!bute half this car for ten years, I think ;: c could of the losses incurred. Apart from carryon further, without this car, for that a very recent demands has been a number of years more the luxury made that for enforcement expenses, of these jeeps and staff cars allowed Centre should pay. Some figures to the varIOus departments has in- were given some time back of about creased out of bounds for the last so Rs. 4 lakhs or so in answer to a many years and it is on the increase. question regarding enforcement ex- You must put a stop to this. Every penses in D.P. But the enforcement little thing whiCh can save fuel which expenditure of D.P. was Rs. 4 crores. can save this expenditure of money, Such a heavy expenditure is being and which can show the real austerity incurred in the various States where and the sincerity behind our objective enforcement is being carried on and Of driving out the aggressor must be the loss of revenue is very great. clearly displayed in all our measures, Should we not reorientate our policy whether they be in this House or out- about this bogey at prohibition? Let side the House. It is, therefore, my Us admit that We have miserably suggestion that all unnecessary ex- failed. It is no doubt a good thing. penditure must be immediately cut But it has failed. In Bombay, in the down. There is no indication of that. old days you could get these things Rs. 75 crores is the only amount, in at a particular place only but now you addi tion to the sum of Rs. 8 crores for can get them anywhere and every- atomic energy, I think, that has been where. They are available at exorbi- demanded for meeting the expenditure tant prices and these bootleggers do in respect of the defence forces. We not pay any income tax on their lakhs have just started digging the well of rupees. It is not useful to the when the house has caught fire! We country. This aspect of the question had absolutely no arrangements made must be very well considered in these for increasing our air force, and now war days and in these days when we we are thinking of doing it. Even are considering the need for economy without these supplementary demands, and sacrifice on our part. The Gov- the expenditure could have been ernment has not come forward with incurred just as it had been incurred any indication of the policy of the war so often and even after incurring it measures on the financial side which it had taken years before the House they will adopt, and the supplemen- has been apprised of it. I do not know tary demands have been just ushered why this method is adopted and the in in the ordinary routine manner. -requirements of the country have not There is absolutely no indication as to been met. We find ourselves in a most how the ?rices are being controlled, miserable position today: with all the what economic policy will be further man-power that we are setting up to followed and what consequences are meet the enemy's advance, we have likely to arise. to gallantly fall back day after day to the ridicule of the world and to our great-shame. When I was reading these supple- mentary demands for grants, it ap- peared to me that probably the grants In these days, I do not think that were formulated before the 20th Octo- there is any Member who would b2:', 1962 before the emergency set oppose the supplementary demands. upon us. Our Vice-President used to They will be certainly granted, and have a car from other sources. I do will be voted whole-heartedly, but it not know whY this moment has been will be the duty of the Government Demands KA RTlKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) for Supplementary 2320 Grants (Genera!) to exert itseJ! in such a manner as utilisation oi the land IS on the front, to indicate to the House that nothing till such time that he is on the front, slipshod will be done and that the he should be treated, for the purposes purpose for which these supplemen- of the Land Revenue Act, as a person tary demands have been made before present in the village; he should not the House will be carried out syste- be treated as an absentee from the matically, properly and sincerely and land and at the end of the hostilities, not for the purposes of putting down he should not be made to find tha t or throwing down this money into the the possession of the land has gone well of corruption. from him. This had happened so often during the last ten years when For example, Demand No. 56 is to thousands and thousands of young meet an expenditure of Rs. 61,000 Rajput boys who had offered their ser- which is the compensation payable to vices and who were actually on the the land-owners as assessed by the front, because they happened to be land acquisition authority and about merely Rajputs and as Rajputs they which some suits were filed. It says: were irritated against the Congress party, were deprived of their right to hold the land with a vengeance with "After careful consideration, it a vindictiveness. Here I would say has been decided to file appeal in tha t we are one in this caUSe and we the High Court in one case." are fighting as one man against this aggressor. So there should be no All these things which have been discrimination, be he a Rajput, a Jat, indicated on the question of acquisi- Sikh, Jain or a Baniya; to whatever tion of land by the Home Ministry caste he may belong, he should not will surprise many of us. Why should be deprived of his right to hold the this small sum of Rs. 61,000, which is land when he returns after the hostili- 'charged', be included today in this ties. demand? Although it is a very small amount, when an appeal is already On a previous occasion I had sup- being filed and a stay order has been ported the payment of privy purses obtained by the Government, why to the princes. Even now, on princi- should it be charged today for making ple, would not like to stand in the payment? Could not such payments way of their enjoying the benefit that be kept in abeyance"? Other similar has been bestowed on them under the items are included in other demands Constitution. But when all our in regard to expenditure which may countrymen are agreeable to a life of be avoided. Why has it become austerity during these hostilities it necessary that all these demands must would be in the fitness of things, it be immediately met, sO far as the pri- would be met and proper for them vate individuals are concerned? not to draw more than Rs. 1 lakhs per year as their privy purse. It will be Other demands of course, do not a donation to the country and, indeed, exceed Rs. 4 crores and so there is their sacrifice or good deea in giving not muoh to be said on that account. up their privileged position which Bu t, as suggested 'by other speakers they were enjoying so far would be who preceded me, so far as land no less than the scarifice of those who revenue measures of the various States had fought on the front to achieve are concerned, the law must be so freedom. Yet it is these people from made either on the direct' on of the whom a further sacrifice can be Central Gcvernment or b v issuing a demanded, and I hope that this may go letter Of instruction to ~ State Gov- home to them. ernments that if a soldier, a bread- earner, a tiller of the soil, who is a With these words, do support member of a joint Hindu family and whole-heartedly the demands relating upon whom depends the occupation or to the Ministry of Defence. Demands NOVEMBER 19, 1962 for Supplementarll 2322 Grants (General) Shri D. C. Sharma (Gurdaspur): that it wil] be spent to the advantage lliink all members of the House are and benefit of our country and of our agreed that Demand Nos. 9, 11 and nation. I know that. But I feel that 114 sllould be voted unanimously we want a large scale effort in the because they deal with the Defence m:mufactu;"e of arms, a big effort in Ministry. But I want to ask one the manufacture of other things. question: how far will these US. 95 Rs. 20 crores is not a small sum, but crores of additional money carry us? still when We think of the Chinese How long will they be of use to us? preparations and when we think of I am not a military expert or strate- the Chinese strategy, you may think gist, but I have read some books on that this is not much. All the same, this subject and r find that the tempo r \\ elcom2 this sign, this note of of fighting has increased these days. emergency and urgency on the part Every newspaper tells us that waves of the Government. 'ifter waves Of Chinese soldiers are trying to overrun our country. I feel It hels been said that the Govern- this is going to be a major conflict ment should have told Us how they and as to how long it is going to last are going to meet this. So far as I I cannot say anything. But it is going kno,\! about Rs, 5 crares have been to be a big and maj Or conflict, the collectctl from all over India. There tempo of which is increasing day by may be a little more ...... (Intcrrup- day. How ~ w:·; ihis money last? lion) . I think, I can speak better for I feel that the Government which my own State than you. About Rs. 5 knows much more about this war than crorcs have beEn collected so far, so 1 do, or anybody else does, then even far a, the public is concerned and, I the newspaper pundits do, should ~ my home State, Punjab, has have taken a more comprehensive given Rs. 2,70,00,000. view of things and should have tried to build up the war machinery in An ~ Member: It has appeared terms of soldiers, equipment and in the papers as Rs. 87 lakhs. everything in as big a way as possible. Shri D. C. Sharma: IilStead ot telling me that it has appeared in It has been stated on the floor of the p"'pers you shOUld tel! your States the House that this money is required that they should also come forward. only for four months and we shall They r~ trying to correct my figures have to grant some more money in instead of emulating what is being the next budget. That is true. But done in the Punjab. It is a strange I feel that in a war a sense of urgency thing which these han. friends of mine is a great asset. In war it is danger- are doing. ous to wait upon event. In war the best thing is to prepare for something whiCh may take place and not for was submitting respectfully that something which is taking place. In about Rs. 5 crores or a little more war the 'would be' is much more im- than that have been collected from all r~ than 'what is'. Therefore, over India. That is a token of the think, our country should have asked grcat interest which our people are for more so far a3 ~ is concern- taking in the war effort. There is no ed, so that we should have been able dou':>t al:lout it. But you cannot wage to fight the Chincse barborians with war with the help of Rs. 5 crores or as much vigour und effect' veness as u.s. 50 crores. You cannot wage war We want. with pUblic donations. It is not after all a philanthropic organisation. Of course, defence :5 R ,eeret thing ~rr the money ha:;. to ~ and we do not know how this money [rom the nation and I would suggest will be spent. But I know. that this .mlv two things in order to get more money will be spent very wisely and mo;:'ey from the public. 2323 Dem4nds KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) fOT Supplementary ~ Grants (Gene1"al1 I have been going round my consti- certain things which al'e b.5. :1tial for tuency during the last four days and our socio-economic planning. There 1 have come to one conclusion which is no doubt about that. We should Is this. I tell vou of one place where hold fast to that as we stick to some- the cripples w~ to the Deputy Com- thing which is very vital for us. There missioner and gave him Rs. 44 out of are so many other things. I do not their beggarJ.y collections-the crip- want to refer to these things. Because, ples, people who cannot walk. The the other day when I referred to one lalaried classes are also doing their thing, I got into trouble. I do not mind bit and the most enthusiastic persons getting into trouble. I am always in are those whulIl we call the lowly trouble. The difficulty is this. There and the humble. They have shown should be a Cabinet Committee for much more interest in this war than this. The Cabinet has Organisation those persons who 'belong to other and Methods Division to short-circuit income groups. But I am very sorry procedure and to bring about more to say that the people whose incomes efficiency. There should be a Com- are large, people who show conspicu- mittee of that kind in order to see ous consumption, people who belong which items of planning are essential to the upper income brackets, are not and which are not essential. Of showing as much interest in this war course, we should go ahead with the effort as they should do. The poor plan. I would say that this thing should be seen to so that planning doe, not suffer in its essentials, but we 16 hrs, can economise sO far as non-essentials ~rrss poor shopkeepers, are concerned. school teachers, clerks, peons, r~ lies, beggars, all these persons are I am also happy that our Govern- ~ forward to meet this challenge ment of India is taking over the with the utmost generosity. But the Travancore Rare Earths Ltd. Former- people who, I think, are going to make ly it was owned jointly by the Gov- a lot of money out of this war,-they ernment of India and the Government will make money out of anything, of Kerala. Now, I find that the Gov- even out of this war-have not proved ernment of India alone is taking it their mettle in coming forv:ard with over and the Department of Atomic donations. This is a very sad thing Energy is going to run it. I think this to whiCh I refer. I would say that we kind of dual control was not very should get as much from them as helpful. Moreover, the Department of possible. Excess profits tax and other AtCYlIlic Energy requires this material things can be imposed upon them so very much for its needs. So, I think that they are not found wanting so this is a step taken in the right direc- far as this war effort is concerned. tion. I hOPe the Indian Rare Earths There is no doubt about that. Ltd. v:ill give a ~r account now when it has escaped from the duality At the same time, it should be of control, than it was doing before. regarded as a religious duty-we can use religion in this context-to buy Defence gold bonds and Defence cer- In the end, I again support the tificates. Formerly, for these Bonds Demands for Defence and I think and Certificates, the Government used every Member of this House will to have a machinery. We should do supoprt them. away with that machinery. Every Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Mr. Kamath. citizen of India should come forward Your cut motions 29 and 31 are out to buy these gold bonds and Defence of order. You can speak on them. certificates.

More than this, we should do away Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: I will with the frills of planning. There are speak on them. 1'1~71s NOVEMBER 19, 1962 for Supplementary Grants (General) [Shri Hari Vishnu Kamathl Mr. Deputy-Speaker, under the ment plan to do in the coming years, lengthening shadow of the national and how they plan to raise the re- humiliation, temporary though it be, sources for prosecu ling the war vigo- brought on ...... rously and expeditiously. Shri D. C. Sharma: I object to the I have got cut motions Nos ...... word humiliation. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The cut Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: I still motions are all taken as moved. The stick to it. hon. Member can go on with his speech. Shri D. C. Sharma: It is strange that an Indian Member of the Lok Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: I shall Sabha should use this word humilia- take up at he outset the first three tion. CUt motions and diSPOse of them very Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: I repeat briefly, because the subject of the it. Under the lengthening shadow of others is rather important and I would national humiliation, temporary dwelJ upon them at greater length. though it be . . .• The first of these cut motions relates Shri D. C. Sharma: I do not think to the need for enlisting the services that any Member of Parliament should of the former Azad Hind Fauj, the use the word 'humiliation'. former INA personnel of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose. They were Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: .... bro- very well trained particularly in ught on by the disastrous reverses of guerilla warfare during the years our Armed Forces on the Himalayan 1943--45, and I would submit that frontier which in its turn, was, in the Government, unless they are affected words of our President, the President by Myopia, should take advantage of of India, the result of credulity and this opportunity to enlist the services negligence in the past, the House is of about, I am told, 20.000 such per- discussing the Demands for Supple-' sonnel who are scattered all over the mentary Grants to totalling nearly country, that is ex-INA personnel. Rs. 100 crores, out of which, in the Out of them, some may be averaged, fitness of things, Rs. 95 crores have hut even their services can be utilised been asked for under the head of for training younger people, particu- Defence Armed Forces and capital larly in the art and science of guerilla outlay thereon. The House will be warfare, besides the actual warfare only too willing to grant these at the front. Demands, of course, on the definite understanding or condition that Now, I come to the subject relating Government lay before the House, to the next cut motion, and that is without any reserve, without any about the National Defence Conncil. mental reservation what their It is very well that the National policy is, what their ways and means Defence Council has been constituted. of prosecuting the war are in the But I am anxious, as, no doubt, you coming years. are anxious, and the entire House is anxious, that the National Defence The Prime Minister has already Council should in no way erode the warned the House and warned the functions and powers of Parliament, nation that the war against communist should in no way seek to supplant or China may drag on for years; it is not arogate to itself the powers and func- a matter of a few months only, and, tions of Parliament. Especially, if we therefore, the House is entitled to want to promote parliamentary demo- know on this occasion, when we are cracy, in this r~ if we want being asked to vote for a hundred to see that parliamentary democracy crores or more, what exactly Govern- does not come to an end, since all of : 7 Demands KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) for Supplementarll 232S Grants (GeneraL) ~ includillg you, Sir, are anxious that I will now turn to another cut we should have parliamentary demo- motion, No.3, which relates to the cracy, then We should see to it that strength Dithe Air Force. The Prime parliamentary democracy flourishes Minister is reported to iIla ve told the and finally conquers communism; then Consultative Committee of Parlia- we should see that the National Def- ment, and perhaps the Congress Party ence Council does not supplant or ar- Executive also, that the Soviet Gov- rogate to itself the powers and func- ernment is willing and is probably tions of Parliament. The National prepared ,to-he was confident that it Defence Council is goOd in its own would-honour its commitment with way. But I would appeal to my hon. regard to the supply of the MIG 21 jet colleagues, and to the Minister on be- fighters. But unfortunately the very half of the Government, to see to it day after the Prime Minister made that Parliament's functions are in no this statement, there was a London way watered down or whittled down. report-I am reading from one of the well-known papers of India, the My concern was aroused because of Times of India-attributed to Soviet a brief report in one of t'he papers, Embassy officials in New Delhi not about the constitution and power. of anywhere else, who denied the claim the National Defence Council. One of of the Prime Minister that the Soviet its functions is: Government would honour its com- mitment. The House and the country are entitled to knaw where it stands "To take stock of the situation with regard to this deal or transac- and arrangements for national tion. I might here appeal to you for defence ... n. protection, for protection of the powers of the House. The Minister concern- I need not read out the entire thing, ed, t'he Finance Minister Or any other because I am racing against time. Minister, may say that he has got no information. I would request you to kindly direct the Minister concerned As I said the other day, and as or the Prime Minister to tell the House ha ve been saying it day after day, what the position is, because in this Parliament is entitled to know from particular matter, there are other Government .what the war situation is consequences that might arise fraIn it. on a particular date. Wha t is being done by Government to meet the As I said earlier, the Defence Minis- situation as it arises, whether the ter-designate, whom we will have the situation is bettering or worsening pleasure of welcoming here in a day from day to day, and so on, and Par- or two, is reported to have said two liament should be asked to advise days ago-last week-that he believes Government as regards the war efforts Russia will not help India. Whatever and the prosecution of the war. The it is, I hope Russia does fulfil the hope National Defence Council can func- of the Prime Minister and many of us tion in a different capacity and in a here and does help and- honour its useful manner-I have no doubt about commitment with regard to the M'G it. But I will enter a caveat, a word deal. But I would like to know, of caution, to my hon. colleagues and when a reply is forthcoming from one to Government to see that Parliament's of the Ministers Or from the Prime functions are not usurped, not arrc>- Minister himselt, what exactly the gated, not whittled down in any man- position is, whether Russia has finally ner, by either the National Defence assured Government that it will hon- Councilor by any other committee OUr this commitment to the G:>vern- that may be constituted by Govern- ment and to the country. ment in the country. Parliament must be assured the supreme place in this Now, I come to the last two sub- emergency. jects, one with regard to prohibition lJemanclS NOVEMBER 19, 1962 jor Supplementary 2330 Grants (GeneraL) [Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath] ana We oiller with regard to reorgani- The figures were given for. six States sation of the Council of Ministers. On only. It is more than Rs. 6 crores. this occasion of a gra ve national I tried my best to get figures fram emergency, when we are hard put to the Library, Research and Reference it to nnd money for helping the section, regarding the loss from excise jawans in fighting-that should be revenue and all that. The Library, our supreme consideration-I am unfortunately, has not been able to glad that I haVe received support not gl ve me exact figures, but one of our merely frUffi my hon. friends on this leading newspapers, The Indian Ex- side but also from my hon. friends press, has estimated the loss of reve- opposite wj,th regard to scrapping of nUe as about Rs. 300 crores. this farce of a prohibition policy. I do not want that our country, our The Minister Of Transport and army, should be sacrificed at the alter Communications (Shri Jagjivan Ram): of a fetish, at the alter of a fad; I do Fantastic. not want that it should be crucified Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: I IE*lve on the cross or the shi·bboleth of pro- it to the Government to correct it if hibition. What have you got as a it is wrong. consequence Of prohibition? I am sorry to use strong words, but they In the State from which you, Mr. descrrbe it aptly, that all that We have Deputy-Speaker, hail, Mysore, not got, besides loss Of revenue--to which that I am narrow-minded in any I am going to come later on-is deg- sense, the Chief Minister the other radation of public life, corruption of day made a statement in the Assem- administration and hyprocrisy, cant bly stating that the prohibition offen- and humbug. That is what we have ces have been mounting from year to got in consequence of prohibition. I year. I do not want to give the figur- 8m sure my han. friend, noW that he es, but they run into thousands, tens is no longer a Minister, will support of thousands per year. me wholeheartedly in this matter. Here I have got some facts and figur- Anybody who has been to B

Then, I find we are still unprepared We have no idea whether it would be to face oUr responsibilities in regard advisable or necessary for us to invite to the present war. I was told on experts from some fr:endly countries good authority-nevertheless, I speak to come over to us and co-operate wit" subject to correction-that some our own experts in assessing our needs: Demands KARTIKA 2B, 1BB4 (SAKA) for Supplementary 2340 Grants (GeneraL) and in deciding to what extent and in ment to think in terms of obtaining what manner we can possibly ask for support from abroad on a maSSIve assistance from different countries; scale? You cannut possibly have this and what are those countries and so kind of a massive support from other on. Would it be too harmful to us--I countries unless you make up your would like the Government to examine own mind in regard to your own poli- this very carefully-to invite these tical attitude. It is in that connection experts from abroad? Would it not be, that so many of U3 have been tepeat- on the other hand, advantageous to us edly demanding that the Govern- to invite these experts and welcome ment must make up its mind as to their co-operation and ask our own whom it wishes to invite as friends and experts to work in co-operation with on whom it is going to depend pri- those expert; and then assess our marily. It is no good going on dream- needs? All these things have got to be ing of some kind of support that might considered very carefully at the ss~ come or materialise either highest possible level and not merely from Soviet Russia or from any of her by the Defence Minister or by the sattellite countries in Europe. We "have Foreign Affairs Minister but by who- waited long enough and it is time now soever is placed in charge of the whole that the Government make up its own defence responsibility of India. All mind. We have said so much in the those Ministers wilj have to sit toge- other debate that I do not think it is ther in a conference with our experts necessary for me to say anything more and then decide about these matters. I in regard to this matter and to bring would like to be a5Sured what Gov- to the notice of the Government the ernmcnt are now trying to do in this urgency of this particular situation. (1ir,'ction what they achieved till now and what they propose to do in the Then there is a question of the Cabi- near future. net. It is " vexed question. If we sug- gest, as many people have been sug- This '~r does not brook any de- gesting that there should be a nation- lay. Only this morning we heard the al government, the question arises melancholy news. It w~ big loss in- whether it should include representa- deed for us. With very great difficulty tives of the Communist Party. I am and after making so many sacrifices opposed to that. There also, the Gov- we were able to build that air-strip ernment has to make up its mind in at that great altitude. We have lost it. regard to its attitude towards the What wou!d be the military signifi- Communist parJY. It is high time for cance of it? That is not for me to as- my hon. friend the Prime Mimster to sess. It is for the Defence Ministry as revise his own views. He has express- well as the Government as a- whole to ed his views the other day. I did not do. Whatever advantages we thought wiSh to interrupt him while he was we would be gaining by constructing spe'king. I am clear in my mind and it and keeping it ready. I am sure, the I am sure a large number of people enemy would be able to get very much belonging to various other political more advantage because it is better parties, excluding the Communist equipped and better prepared. Their party also are clear in their own mind annies have already come into our that in this nation"l crisis, we cannot land in such huge numbers and with very well depend upon the Commun- such heavy equipment. Now that they ists to play a patriotic role as we can have got this air-strip in their posses- expect from the other political parties. sion. We do not know how much more My hon. friend the Prime Minister IS they will be able to bring in the very not prepared to make up his mind. near future, possibly in the next few days. One thing at least he must be pre- Under these circumstances would it pered to agree, that yC}U cannot possi- not be wise on the part of the Govern- bly have a place in any National Gov_ Dem4nda NOVEMBER 19, 1962 JOT Supplementary Grants (General) [Shri Ranga] ernment for the Communists in this enough confidence to call upon him to country. We have heard so many be the Defence Minister. I am sure, horrible things happening in Assam it cannot be said by the Prime Minis- and also in Bengal. Of course, my ter himself that the gentleman who hon. friends the Communists would has been fortunate enough to be call- disclaim all responsibility. But, my ed here as Defence Minister has some fear is, knowing as We do about the special qualifications to be the Defence activities, intrigues, schemes, machi- Minister which are not possessed by nations and plans of the Communists his other colleagues. There was a not only in this country, but alI over time when an old man Dr. Katju was the world, it is not impossible-I do good enough to be the Defence Min- not accuse my friends here and now; ister. The late Shri Gopalaswami it is not impossible I say-for the Ayyangar was considered to be good Communists to play the game of being enough to be the Defence Minister. patriots on the one side loyal to their The Prime Minister considered himself resolution which they are supposed to to be good enough to be the Defence have passed and for another group to Minister. disagree with it-the minority group to play the role of international com- 8hri 8hivaji Rao 8. Deshmukh: You munists and the majority group to remember Professor, these are peace- play the role Of patriotic communists, time leaders. both of them going in the same way, 8hri Ranga: Unfortunately, I do not hoping for the same results in the happen to come from Sahya.iri. There- end. fore 1 am not obliged to play to the gallery of Sahyadri. In these circumstances, the only thing one can suggest is a coalition 8hri Sonavane: The co-operation of Government. How can we think of the hon. Member would not be forth- suggesting a Coalition Government coming unless he is taken in the Cabi- standing as we do from the Opposi- net. (lnterroption) . tion? We are not over-anxious to Mr. Chairman: Order, order. share responsibility with the present Government unless and until the Gov- 8hri Ranga: Therefore, r am coming ernment itself, unless and until the to this conclusion. I have shown to the ruling party, their own Prime Minis- House that through their OWn failure, ter make up their mind that it is it is clear that they do not rate very time for them to invite the co-opera- high their own abilities to provide the tion of all non-Communist parties in necessary leadership for the defence of order to fight the Chinese. Therefore, this· country at this stage from the I dismiss that consideration also. Cabinet's end. My hon. friend Shri Kamath has suggested that a smaller Then, 1 come to the third conside- Cabinet would do. He has also sug- ration, that is not only about the size gestad that there should be a Defence of the Cabinet, but also the quality of Committee or Council, smaller in size the Cabinet, content of the Cabinet. I than what has been constituted. I do can say that they themselves have con- not wish to say anything about it fessed by having to go out of the because they are matters especially House and beg a Chief Minister from within the realm of power and the one of the States, to come over here exercise of power by the present Gov- 113 God coming down from Heavens, to ernment. be the Defence Minister,-they have Mr. Chalnnan: The hon. Member confessed that out of the 62 Knights should try to conch.de now Templars, they no not have one other man apart from Shri Krishna Menon 8hri Ranga: I am speaking for my in whom the Prime Minister has group, and, there is no need for you to 2343 Demands KA,.'TIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) for Supplementary 2344 Grants (General) remind me to conclude. I know when a big enough responsibility? Does it to start and when to stop and I am not call for almost a superman today? goin g to stop very shortly' too. Is it right that this country ~ be blessed with a leader who is not satis- Me. Chairman: The hon, Member fied and who thinks so low or SO small began at 4-30 P.M. How much more about the responsibilities of Prime- time does he want? Ministership that he must continue to load himself and burden himself as he Shri Ranga: I am going to conclude has been doing over all these years very shortly. I do not wish to take with the variou.s other responsibilities even one minute more than what is that he has been burdenei with? Is it necessary. proper? Are they doing their duty towards the country as well as they As I was saying, the Defpnce Coun- could possibly be expected to do? cil is their own look-out. It is our Therefore, I sincerely hope that the .duty here to judge them by their Prime Minister will soon come to a achievements. As for their achieve- conclusion that he should divest him- ments, a part of their achievements self Of all other responsibilities and was detailed this morning by the begin to play the role of Prime Min- Prime Minister. So, by every count, ister, hundred per cent Prime Min- this Ministry stands self-condemned. It as ister, as an effective and dynamic was not because we did not agree with Prime Minister giving the lea;i and the idea of moving a vote of censure providing the leadership that this tha t we did not support our friends of country has got a right to expect the Socialist Group when they sought from its Prime Minister. leave for a vote of censure, but it is our duty to say quite frankly and boldly that this Cabinet has lost the 8hri Barish Chandra 1I1athur confidence of the Opposition. They (Jalore): I must complime!"!t my hon. have even gone beyond the limit of friend Shri Ranga on his ~rr tolerance on the part of the Opposition. nary ability and capacity to d;stort That is all that I can say, because, and twist facts and present them in after all the Cabinet has got to have his own way. He was just saying its own majority, and they have got that since we had to import a Defence 370 of them and they are in such Minister it meant that the Prime Min- overwhelming numbers that the ister had no confidence in his present moment they raise their voices, we are coIleagues. I think that he ehould all completely silenced here in this have gone a litle further alld said House. Should they not take a leaf that the had no confidence not only in from the experience of Great Britain? the 62 friends but in the 370 Cangress- They refuse to do so. They just want men here. I think that he could have to hug one another and warm them- taken his argument to that Jength. selves, as our jawans are not pble to May I know if he would agrte with do. But, however much they may me that when we asked Shrl C. SiIb- warm themselves, a time wlII come ramaniam to join here as the Minis- when they have got to try and pre- ter of Steel and Heavy Industries, !!ent a better Cabinet a sma;]"r and a the same was the reason, Lecause more powerful cabinet a Cabinet that there was nobody here and we want- will inspire confidence in the country, ed to import somebody from Ma,dras!_ an,-l what is more, evoke toleration and co-operation from the Opposition. As An Bon. Member: He was reluct- things are today, it is time that this ant. Cabinet comes to be reconstituted as soon as possible. Shri Barish Chandra Mathur: I wish my hon. friend Shl"i Ranga In conclusion, I would on!y say one to understand that there are various thing. Is not the Prime Ministership considerations. Most particularly, in :2345 Demands NOVEMBER 19, 1962 for Supplementary Grants (GeneraL) [Shri Harish Chandra Mathur] a matter of emergency like this, I do gency, that business like attitude, in not think that it behoves a man of • the Demands as they ha\'c been pre- his stature in public life to exploit a sented and have been discussed. I situation like this and present a think everyone in this HOUSe will picture in that form. bear me out when I say that when the Finance Minister represents his He also made a brief mo.nlion about annual budget here, the whole House the Prime Minister. I think he will is full and all the galleries are full. understand me properly when I ad- And what does he come out with? vance certain argument. I think he He just comes every year with a cer- will understan:l much better when I tain amount of fresh taxation amount- ~ the Prime Minister of U.K. when ing 10 Rs. 51J-..S0 crores. Last time, he analysed the causes of this big We had about Rs. 70 crores. The conflict between China and this <'oun- country had expected that it would try. The first cause h" mentioned be about Rs. 40--50 crores. But for was that China was feeli"g envious that there is so much awareness and of the great reputation which the consciousness and everybody thinks sO Prime Minister of this great country much about those r~ss has built up in the internatic"al field I wish any hon. friend to understand Here now we have before us these that it is not the bigness of an indi- Supplementary Demands totaling vidual, it is not the bigness, of this about Rs. 95 crores end they are to Government, it is ihe bigness of this last us only for ~r months. Wo k- country, a bigne3., of w~ '1e should ing on this base, we need another be equally proud as I am or anybody Rs. 300 crores extra. I do r.ot know sitting in this House. So at ~s in on what promises these estimates have a time of emergency, let us cast asipe been based. I wish the han. Finance these petty considerations and see Minister had taken gO,'d care Gf the things in their proper perspective. mOOd and temper of ~ COclntry at the present moment and presented, as 8mi Vasudevan Nair (Ambala- a matter of fact, a 3llpplementary puzha); Why dan't they take the budget to meet the c!cfcnce liabilities Swata"tra Party into the Cabinet? of this country. At t1:i, time, he shouln have taken this House inte Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: I have conf\--1.ence. In this emergency, every· ·a great affiliation with my ho". and body is in a proper frame of ':mind, esteemed fdend, ~1r Ea!1ga. We in a proper mood to come forwar(l were together for four vec.1'3 in the and do anything needed for meeting Rajya Sabha and now ~ have been the emergency. We would need nO: here for quite a long ti",e. ~3 ~ Rs. 300-400 crores-i1 i obvious to me-to meet the em€!'g('nr Now, I would like to devote myself we have to face. exclusively to these Supplementary Demands before us. These Demands J.' have a3c.umed a special importance If we have to face thls PITtergen because theY make a c;pecial provision and when they present these DCllldn, ~ meet this emergency. There is I think we must take it fur gearte provision for our defenCe nc:ed· ]n thi:i that it is not by putting certain paper respect. Otherwise. w~ Tnss these currency into circulation that he supplementary demands without much wants to meet these Demands. ! do discussion. I am happy that ,h'! en· not think it is only bv drawing trea- tire HOlL;e has rivetted ;t; attention sury bills that he wants to meet these on this particular crucla! ilemand to dcmands. He should have taken this meet the emergency. But I am afraid House into confidence, ayon we must that I do not find that spirit of emer- have heard simultaneously how he is Demands KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA.) for Supplementary Grants (General) going to meet the demands of OUr re- raise even; only Rs. 40 or Rs. 60 quirements for defence. He sliould crores annually. have at the same time given a very gOOd proof as to how the Government I have certain suggestions to make is going to gear itself up to bring as to what we can do to meet this about an amount of economy. There "mergency and raise 'our revenues in is a lot 'of room for economy. In all the present tempo. I just enquired war times We had always taken cer- the other day to find out what the tain strong measures to bring about wage bill of organised industry and certain economies, we had tried to mining only in this country was. It is inject a certain efficiency in the ad- about Rs. 1,000 crores. That means, ministration, We had tried to do so if they contribute only 10 per cent, many things. While standing here, I it will come to Rs. 100 crores per would be prepared to make quite a annum. We have got a provisron here few suggestions as to how we can in the emergency provisions by which bring about quite a large am'ount of we can ask for a certain percentage economy, what other measures We can out of the salaries drawn by ~ , adopt to gear up and create a fresh Most of the people are willing and climate in the country and make coming forward to do that, hut the people understand and also take for- Finance Minister must give it his first ward the enthusiasm which has al·· attention. There will be no objection, ready been generated. particularly because the people at the lower ladder are quite willing to give 10 per cent, and some of them are It is obvious to ail of us that this prepared to give even 15 per cent. war is not going to be financed by If the people in the higher strata, these d'onations. So far as donations higher level, are not in tune with are concerned, we are ~ appre- that patriotic spirit, I care a tuppence ciative, and I am quite aware, and for their feelings. We must put in 10 am one with my hon. friend Shri per cent for a particular income, and D. C. Sharma who said that at 15 per cent for the higher income r~s the donations by far and large which will give this country about have been coming from the lower Rs. 100 to Rs. 150 crores. strata of society-I would not call them lower strata, they are rather the Shri Ranga: For the civil section. top strata because these are the , people who have given a good account Shri Barish Chandra Mathur: This of their patriotism and come forward does not include the government ser- with all sorts of donations. When vices. I was speaking of organised you accept a donation from a merC' industry and mining. Then there are ~ clerk who is giving you all his life the commercial houses. If the wage- savings, you must understand what a earner can contribute Rs. 100 crores, P: t.remend'ous responsibility we are there is absolutely no justification, n'o ., taking upon ourselves; We must alsa reason why these profit-making big realise the tremendous responsibility concerns should not be able t<1 give 'Ie are accepting when we are taking twice what the wage-earner is giving he life earnings, the ornaments etc., as a matching grant. That is, they ,'from the lowly people who have must be made to pay Rs. 200 crore. b' through their sweat and toil earned per ann urn out of their profits. a little and come forward quite readily and willingly to put them You may ask how we can get Rs. 200 in the coffers of this Government to crores. I will give you an examplp.. meet this emergency. While we deep- Instead of sales tax being realised ly appreciate this, we must hav.. a by the State Governments, if the clear understanding of the entire Cen tre takes over the organisation "f situation, what it means if we are to the sales tax, and if there is nC) 2140 (Ai) LSD.-7. 2349 Demands NOVEMBER 19, 1962 for Supplementary Grants (Genera l) [Shri Harish Chandra Mathur] Need to expand the manufacturing leakage and if it is realised at origin capacity of the ordnance factortes as a turnover tax, what will happen? Shri S. M. Banerjee: 1 beg to move: The Chief Minister of Punjab the othet· day told in a public meeting that in "That the demand for a supple- Punjab alone the leakage of sales tal< mentary Grant of a sum not exceeding 67,00,00,000 in amounts to the tune of Rs. 2 crores Rs. per annum. Just consider what is the respect of Defence Services, leakage all over the country? It Effective Army be reduced by means that without additional taxa· Rs. 100." (3) tion of a single nay a paisa, you can Need for co-ordination Of ordnance get about Rs. 39 crores additionally factOries, army workshops and Tech- simply by taking over sales tax admi- nica! Deve!opment Establishment! nistration and making it foolproof. to step up production You will also earn the gratitude D.r Shri S. M. Banerjee: I beg to move: lakhs of people who are being r~ "That the demand for a supple- sed by the small man who want. mentary Grant of a sum not them to come to him and present his exceeding Rs. 67,00,00,000 in res- books and so on. pect of Defence Services, Effective I will take an:other five or.1J! Army be reduced by Rs. 100." minutes. (4) Mr. Chairman: He may eontinue to- Urgent need to expand the M.E.S. morrow. Organisation Shri S. M. Banerjee: 1 beg to move: Cut motions nos. 1 to 6 and 15 to 20. by other han. Members may also be "That the demand for a supple- moved by them subject to their beml! mentary Grant of a sum not otherwise admissible. exceeding Rs. 67,00,00,000 in respect of Defence Services, Need to implement Raghuramaian Effective Army be reduced ·by Committee Report for army Rs. 100." (5) personnel Need to ~ the Border Road Organisation Shri S. M. Banerjee: I beg to move: Shri S. M. Banerjee: 1 beg to move: "That the demand for a supple- "That the demand for a supple- mentary Grant of a sum not mentary Grant of a sum not exceeding Rs. 67,00,00,000 in res- exceeding Rs. 67.00,00,000 in res- pect of DefenCe Services- Effec- pect of Defence Services. Effective tive-Army be reduced by Rs. 100." Army be reduced by Rs. 100." (6) (1) Immediate need to revive negotiating Need to grant permanency to those machinery at three !eve!s in all civilian emp!oyees employed in lieu defence estab!ishments to maintain of armll men abso!ute industria! peace. Shri S. M. Banerjee: I beg to move: Shri S. M. Banerjee: 1 beg to move: "That the demand for a supple- mentary Grant of a sum not "That the demand for a supple- exceeding Rs. 67,00,00,000 in mentary Grant of a sum not respect 'Of Defence Services, exceeding Rs. 67,00,00,000 in res- Effective-Army be reduced by peet of Defence Services, Effective Rs. 100." (15) Army be reduced by Rs. 100." Urgent need to USe the army work- (2) shops for production purposes 2351 Demands for KARTIKA 28, 1884 (SAKA) Business Advisory Supplementary Grants Committee (General) Shri S, M. Banerjee: I beg to move: exceeding Rs. 67,00,00,000 in res- "That the demand for a supple- pect of Defence Services, Effec- mentary Grant of a sum not tive-Army be reduced by Rs. 100." exceeding Rs. 67,00,00,000 in (19) respect of Defence Services, Effective-Army be reduced by Need to expand the Defence Liaison Rs. 100." (16) Unit at Delhi to expedite procure- ment to material. Need to PUt E.M.E. and station work- shops under ControLler General of Defence Production Shri S. M. Banerjee: I beg to move Shri S. M. Banerjee: I beg to move: "That the demand for supple- "That the demand for a supple- mentary Grant of a sum not mentary Grant of a sum not exceeding Rs. 67,00,00,000 in res- exceeding Rs. 67,00,00,000 in pect of Defence Services, Effec- respect of Defence Services, tive-Army be reduced by Rs. 100.' Effective-Army be reduced by (20) Rs. 100." (17)

Immediate need to recaLl the technical Mr. Chairman: These cut motions experts who are able-bodied and are also before the House. utilise their services in Ordnance factories.

Shri S. M. Banerjee: I beg to move: BUSINESS ADVISORY COMMITTEE "That the demand for a supple- mentary Grant of a sum not NINTH REPoRT exceeding Rs. 67,00,00,000 in respect of Defence Services, Shri Kane: Sir, I beg to present Effective-Army be reduced by the Ninth Report of the Business Ad- Rs. 100." (18) visory Committee.

Need to have three shifts in Ordnance 17.08 hrs. factories The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Shri S. M. Banerjee: I beg to move: Eleven of the Clock on Tuesday, the "That the demand for a supple- November 20, 1962jKartika 29, mentary Grant of a sum not 1884 (Saka). 2353 DAILY DIGEST [Monday, Ntn!ember, 19, 1962jK(lf"tika 28, 1884 (Saka:]

COLUMNS COLUMNS ORAL ANSWERS TO WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS 1~55 QUESTIONS-contd. S.Q. Sub;ect S.Q. Sub;ect No. No. 243 Manufacture of tanks 2155-57 536 Development of Nagaland 2201-02 244 Houses for defence per- 537 Delhi ~' sonnel in Delhi . 2157-58 Exchange 2202 245 Central Tea Wage Board 2158-fo 538 Indian soldiers killed in Katanga . 22('1 246 Children's ilrn Society 2160-63 539 Land acqUisition for 247 Second Bandung Con- Delhi Master Plan 2203---04 ference . 21 63-66 540 Passports 2204 248 Indian Nationals kid- 541 Factory Inspectorate napped by Pakitstani. in Tripura from Rajasthan . 2166-68 2205 542 Staff artistes of A.I.R. 2205 249 Obscene film posters 2168-72 543 -Pe:sons injured in bor- 250 Sarpanche. as Claims der road organisation Commissioners work 2205-01 251 Indians in Burma 544 Mine sw:!epers 2207 252 Employment and po- 545 Korean Cultural Mission 2207-08 pUlation 546 Ex-servicemen of Goa 2208 253 Fake ~rs 2179-80 547 D,["ac! Civilian Clerks 254 In::!ian embassy building A ~s at Jakarta 2180-82 2209 548 Edinburgh Military 256 Warships 2182-83 Tattoo 2209 -10 257 Pal<. towers on Indo- 549 U.N. Assistance to P.k border 2183-84 Indioa 2210-11 258 Report of Jute Wage 550 Institute of Flight Board 2184-55 Science 22I:a. 261 Interim award of Jute 551 Institute of Physiology 22II-I. Wage Board 188~ 552 Gun and Shell Factory, 259 Press Advisory Com- Cosseporc mittee 2187-92 221.2. 553 Controller of Emigrant 260 Development Schemes Labour 2212-13 in Goa 2192-95 554 C.H.S. Scheme for De- fence employees 2213 555 Pulice Training School WRITTEN ANSWERS TO in Goa 2213 QUEf>TIONS . 2195-2215 556 Quarterly Reports about U.S.'2.No. Third Plan . . 2213-14 557 Recruitment to Army 2214-15 527 Capital investment 2195 559 Visit of foreign army 528 Former French pos- officers sessions in India 2215-11 560 Per capita income 529 Naga rebels 22Jt 561 Radio Relay Station 53" Dosai Bank award at Coirn batore :>216 531 Production in Ordnance PAPERS LAID ON THE factories TABLE 2217-20 The following papers were 532 Wage Boards laid on the Table :- <33 Report on Central Gov- (,) A copy of Notification . vernment employees' No. G.S.R. 1510 dated strike 2199-2200 tire IIth November, 1962 under clause (3) of articles 534 Army Officers' wife in 359 of the Constitution, in U.S.I.S. .. 2200 publishing an amendment 535 Hostile Nagas 2200-2201 to Order No. G.S.R. 14'4 2355 2356 COLUMNS CoLUM1\, PAPERS LAID ON THE PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE-contd. TABLE-contd. dated the 3rd November, (e) Notification No. 22(1)- 1962, issued by the Presi- T.R.62-1 dated the uent under clause (I) of 16th November, 1962, the said anicle. issued under sub- section (I) of section 3A (2) A copy each of the of the said Act (together following papers under wfth its Hindi version). sub-section (2) of section 16 of the Tariff Commis. Ctl) Notificatiofl No. 22(1), sion Act, 1951 :- T.R. 62-II dated the 16th November, 1962 v, (i) (a) Repon (1962) of the issued under sub-sec.. Tariff Commission on the continuance of tion (I) of seerio!' 4 of pfltection to the Sheet the said Act (together Glass Industry. with its Hindi venion). ( b) Government Reso- (0) Statement explairiing lutton No. 14(2)-TR.j the reasons why a copy 62 dated the 16th No- each of the documents ve,uber, 1962 (together at (a), (b), Cc) and (tl) wi:h its Hin.Ji version). above could not be laid on the Table within the (c) Statement explaining period prescribed in the reasons why a copy the said Bub-section. each of the documents (3) A copy of the Annual at (a) and (b) above Accounts of the Employees' co lId not be laid on the State Insurance Corpora- Tebie within the period tion for the year 1960-61 r'~sr In ,Jj'" ~ together with the Audit sub-secction. Report thereOI), under (Ii) (a) ~ (1962) of the sectior: 36 of the Em- Tariff Commission on ployees' State Insurance the continuance of Act, 1948. protection to the Plastics (4) A statement on the flood (P1,enol Formaldehyde situation ir '-he country . Moulding Powder) InJustry. (5) A copy each of the follow- ing papers :- Cb) Government ResOlu- Ci) Annual Report of the tion No. 27(1)-T.R./62 Film Finance Corpora- dated lhe 16th Novem- tion Limited Bombay, ber, 1962 (together with for the year 1961-.62 its Hindi version). alonr with the Audited Ace' nts and the Com- (iii) (a) Repon (1962) of the men ,s of the ComPtrol- Tariff Commission on ler and Auditor General the cortinuaT"ce of pro- thereon) under ~ tection to the Ball Bear- section (I) of s~ ings Industry. 619A of the Compames (b) Government Resolu- Act, 1956. tion No. 18(1)-T.R. 62 (ij) Review by the . G0- dated the 16th Novem- vernment on the work- ber, 1962 (together with ing of the above Cor- its Hindi version). par ion. (iv) (a) Report (1962) of the Tariff Commission on .'vl",;;SAGE FROM RAJYA the continuar:ce of SABHA protection to the Non- Ferrous Metals Industry Secretary reported • message from Rajya Sabha that at (b) Government Resolu_ illl sitting held on the 1$Ih tior. No. 22(1)-T.R. 62 NoVember. 1962 Ralya dated the 16th Novem- Sabha had passed the Em- ber, 1962 (together with ployees' provident Funds it-.; Hinrii ver!'ion'. (Amendment) Bill. 1962. 23S7

BILL PASSED BY R AJYA (il) The Deputy Minister SABHA-LAID ON THE in the Minis! ry of Finance TABLE 2%20 (Shri B. R. Bhagat) moved Secretary laid on the Table for the consideration of the the Employees' Provident Metal Tokens (Ame d- Funds (Amendment) Bill, ment) Bill, 1962. The 1962, as passed by motion was adopted ~ R.jya Sabha. after cIausl' h -clause consideration, the Bill, STATEMENT RE ORDINANCE- was passed. LAID ON THE TABLE 222.1 (iii) The DepClty Minister A copy of the explanatory state- in the ~rr of Mines ment giving reasons for and Fuel (Shri Hajarnavis) immediate legislation by moved for consideration the Pondicherry (Ad- of the Petroloum Pipelines ministration) Ordinance, ( .... cquisition of Right of 1962 (No. 8 of 1962) User in Land) Bill, 1962. was laid on the Table. The motion was adopted and after clause-by-clause GOVERNMENT BILLS consideration the Bill INTRODUCED was passed. (I) The Pondicherry (Ad- ministration) Bill, 1962. SUPPLEMENTARY DE- (2) The State-Associated MANDS FOR GRANTS Banks (Miscellaneous FOR (GENERAL) Provisions) Bill, 1962 .. Discussion on the Supplemen- (3) The All-India Services tary Demands for Grants (Amendment) Bill, 1962. in respect of the Budget (4) The workmen's Compen- (Ge"eral) for 1962-63 sation (Amendment) Bill, commenced. Seventeen 62 cur motio·l were moved. 19 . The disCLlSsio:1s was not (5) The Indian Tariff (Am- cO'lcluded. ~ Bill, 1962.. REPORT OF BUSINESS AD- STATEME NT BY PRIME VISORY COMMITTEE MINISTER PRE EN TED The Prime Minister (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru) made i -tth Report of the Basiness a statement regardi r'lg Advisory COmnlll[ee was the situation in NEFA presented. and Ladakh. AGENDA FOR TUESDAY, BILLS PASSED 2242-2.301 NOVEMBER 23, 1962/ (i) The Minister of State in KARTlKA '9, 1884 (SAKA, the Ministry of Home Aff- airs (Shri Dator) moved Further conslderadon and for cO:1sideration of the passing of Supplementary Foreigners Law (Applica- Demands for Grants tion and Amendment) (Ge"eral) for 1962-63. Co- Bill, 1962. The motion nsideration 3'1d passing of was adopted and after Appropriation (No.5) clause-by-clause consi- Bill, 1962 and the Cus- deration the Bill was toms Rill. IC)67.. as reported passed. by Select Committee.

GMGIPND-LS II-2140 (ai)LS-i-U-62--900.