Public Session
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PUBLIC SESSION MINUTES OF ORAL EVIDENCE taken before HIGH SPEED RAIL COMMITTEE On the HIGH SPEED RAIL (LONDON – WEST MIDLANDS) BILL Tuesday, 10 March 2015 (Morning) In Committee Room 5 PRESENT: Mr Robert Syms (In the Chair) Mr Henry Bellingham Sir Peter Bottomley Ian Mearns Mr Michael Thornton _____________ IN ATTENDANCE: Mr Timothy Mould QC, Lead Counsel, Department for Transport Mr Francis Partridge, Denham Against HS2 Witnesses: Mr Shaun and Mrs Samantha Bates Rt Hon Dominic Grieve QC Ms Anne Ling Mr Rupert Thornely-Taylor, Managing Director, Rupert Taylor Ltd, acoustics and vibration expert _____________ IN PUBLIC SESSION INDEX Subject Page Mr Shaun and Mrs Samantha Bates Introduction from Mr Mould 3 Submissions from Mrs Bates 3 Submissions from Mr Mould 15 Denham Against HS2 Introduction from Mr Mould 26 Submissions from Mr Partridge 26 Submissions from Mr Grieve 41 Further submissions from Mr Partridge 46 Submissions from Mr Mould 54 Mr Thornely-Taylor, examined by Mr Mould 61 Mr Thornely-Taylor, cross-examined by Mr Partridge 63 Anne Ling Submissions from Ms Ling 66 Submissions from Mr Mould 76 Closing submissions from Ms Ling 78 2 (At 9.30) 1. CHAIR: Order, order. Welcome. Good morning to the HS2 Select Committee. We start off today with Mr and Mrs Bates, back in the West Midlands. Who’d like to kick off? Mr Shaun and Mrs Samantha Bates 2. MR MOULD QC (DfT): Shall I just introduce Mr and Mrs Bates? We’ve shown you on the screen P5132, the location of their property on Lavender Hall Lane in the Berkswell area. If we turn to P5133, we can see that a small area of the property, which is known as Fernbank, is within Bill limits. That’s the green shaded area, required for the rerouting of Lavender Hall Lane as part of the Bill scheme. The remainder of their property lies outside the safeguarded area. 3. My understanding is that Mr and Mrs Bates are the owners, but not the occupiers, of Fernbank. They’ve owned the property since 2003, and they have rented the property out for, I believe, about the past five years, but they’ll tell you if I’ve got that wrong. 4. CHAIR: Okay, who’s going to kick off? You, Mrs Bates? 5. MRS BATES: Thank you. Thank you for inviting us here today; it’s very much appreciated. As we are aware, you have now listened to numerous petitioners with many similar concerns and fears, and you’ve also heard from MP Caroline Spelman, who mentioned us by name in her petition on 16 December 2014, which I’ll refer to later. We are keen to put our case forward from our own personal point of view, as we are currently affected similarly, in some ways, to other petitioners, but very differently in others. 6. I’d like to start by giving a brief history and overview as to why we find ourselves here today and, more importantly, why we feel the need to petition. For the past 20 years, my husband and I have worked extremely hard to ensure a financially secure future for both ourselves and our two children, Lauren (10) and Ron (8). 7. Our vision and plan, from very early on, was not only to work our everyday jobs, but to buy and live in properties that require development work, so that we could 3 eventually become mortgage-free and, as already mentioned, financially secure. Therefore, when we purchased Fernbank, Lavender Hall Lane, Berkswell, in 2003, having renovated and sold three homes, our aim was to divide the existing property into two separate four-bedroom homes and then to sell one side and to live in the other. This we did and, in October 2007, we sold one side of the house, which we named the Laurels. The Laurels, which is attached to Fernbank, falls predominantly within the Rural Support Zone. 8. If you could, show slide A935(3) please. This is a picture of Fernbank after renovation and division. Behind, the white house is the Laurels. However, when our children were of school age, we decided that the location we lived in did not provide the schooling we wanted for them in the future and, therefore, took the difficult decision to move to a different school catchment area. As there was no immediate necessity to sell to free up investment funds, and also a possibility that, in the future, we may want to move back to the countryside, we decided to rent out Fernbank to tenants in September 2009. 9. These tenants have been in the property ever since and, when they initially moved in, they approached us with an interest in purchasing the property. However, shortly after this enquiry, HS2, in 2010, was announced, which inevitably changed their minds and they withdrew their offer. Since the initial announcement of HS2, there’ve been various plans and proposals some of which have affected our property, including one where a road would have gone through our field and through our pond. 10. Could we see the next slide, please, slide 4? This is the construction phase. However, as things currently stand today and, as you can see from the overview, we are now surrounded on every side, firstly by the existing railway line, Lavender Hall Lane, which we widened and part of our land acquired, an overbridge constructed and the construction compound situated next to our field, and finally HS2, the other side of the Laurels. I just wanted to note that, on the map received from HS2, it does not show the workers’ accommodation on the compound. 11. If this were not bad enough, we also appear thwarted on every level, as each and every scheme that has been announced does not appear to apply to us, apart from the homeowners’ payment zone, 120-180 metres, which only would amount to a maximum 4 of £22,500. In addition, as part of our land will be potentially required during construction, but will not total more than 25%, we cannot claim for the express purchase scheme. 12. Finally, because we currently do not live in the property, we’re currently unable to claim for any of the above or to claim blight. Initially, our understanding of serving a blight notice is taken from ‘HS2 Phase One Statutory Blight and Express Purchase, a Guide for Property Owners’, in June 2014, ‘to qualify for statutory blight notice you should be able to answer ‘yes’ to all of the following questions. Do you have a qualifying interest in the property? Is your property partly or wholly within the safeguarded area? Have you made all reasonable endeavours to sell your property?’ 13. As we could only say ‘yes’ to two of the three stipulations and, in order to satisfy criteria 3 to prove blight to our property, in February of this year, we approached two local estate agents to appraise and value Fernbank for sale. Both agents were clearly aware of HS2 and their feedback was reflective of this. I have copies of the letters from the agents, should you wish to see them. The first agent stated, ‘I would recommend a current market valuation for your property of £795,000 but, as discussed, this may be hard to achieve because of the proximity of the proposed HS2 and works site.’ The letter received goes on to say, ‘I would, however, need to ask for £500 upfront to cover the costs of advertising and brochures, etc.’ 14. The second agent also stated, ‘A property of size, spec and land would command an asking price within the region of £775,000 and £795,000. However, in light of the HS2 proposal being such a blight on the saleability of the property, I would, in this instance, not be able to offer a ‘no sale no charge’ arrangement, and would require an upfront marketing cost of £1,000 plus VAT. A further cost may be incurred if the property remains on the market with continued advertising and exposure.’ During the visit to the property, he said he was shocked to see how close the line and the compound were going to be to Fernbank. 15. Further to discussions with our very understanding tenants, we are now marketing the property in the hope that we can sell Fernbank for the market value prior to the announcement of HS2. However, after discussions with the agents yesterday, these were some of the comments made in only just over a week of being on the market, 5 which are not very encouraging. They’ve received a call from a lady wanting to view Fernbank. During the discussion, HS2 was brought up and, once she found out the proximity of the route and work site, she cancelled her request and refused to leave contact information. 16. We also had a viewing over the weekend of the property. They loved the house and thought it was beautifully presented, but they still need to look into HS2, as they want to be 100% sure of how much it will affect the property during construction and also once it has been built. There are further comments referencing HS2 and how they no longer wish to proceed in coming to view the property. 17. Therefore, our understanding in serving blight is that we now must prove that our property has depreciated in value since the announcement of HS2, due to the proximity of the construction works and/or the HS2 line, which will only just be over 120 metres away, based on the centre line.