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The Big Interview Episode Number: 206 Episode Title: Description: Emmy and Golden Globe award-winning actress Jane Lynch opens up about her late break into Hollywood stardom. From movies to television to life off-screen, Lynch has a take on all of it.

ACT 1

DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)

TONIGHT… ON THE BIG INTERVIEW… JANE LYNCH - ONE OF HOLLYWOOD’S MOST RECOGNIZABLE STARS HAS MADE A CAREER BY PLAYING CHARACTERS WHO ARE WILLING TO SAY THINGS MOST OF US WOULD NEVER DREAM OF SAYING.

DAN RATHER

I was tempted to try something with you, but I lost my nerve.

JANE LYNCH

Oh no, do it. Do it. Jump off the cliff.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

YET LYNCH’S LIFE HAS NOT ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT LAUGHS - LIKE HER DECADES-LONG STRUGGLE TO COME TO TERM WITH HER SEXUAL IDENTITY.

LYNCH

I didn't tell my parents until I was 31. Yeah, I was really deeply ashamed and afraid

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

MOVIE AND TELEVISION STAR, EMMY AND GOLDEN GLOBE WINNER… JANE LYNCH ...TONIGHT ON THE BIG INTERVIEW.

ACT 2

DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)

IF THERE’S ANY ACTRESS WHO FIGHTS THE CONVENTIONAL HOLLYWOOD OBSESSION WITH YOUTH, IT’S JANE LYNCH. HER BREAK-OUT ROLE AS A 2

CAUSTIC CHEERLEADING COACH TURNED SCHOOL PRINCIPAL ON THE FOX HIT CAME AT THE AGE OF 49… A TIME WHEN MANY ACTORS AND ACTRESSES ARE FINDING IT DIFFICULT TO FIND WORK AT ALL. SHE GREW UP IN THE MIDWEST, NOW LIVES IN … AND AT 6 FEET SHE CUTS AS IMPOSING A PRESENCE OFF SCREEN AS ON.

DAN RATHER

Well, first of all, thank you very much for doing this.

JANE LYNCH

Oh, it's my pleasure.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

I RECENTLY SAT DOWN WITH JANE LYNCH IN HOLLYWOOD… WHERE SHE DISCUSSED HER GLEE CHARACTER, THE INDOMITABLE … WITH SEASONS-FULL OF FAMOUS POLITICALLY-INCORRECT ONE-LINERS,

LYNCH (From Glee)

“You think this is hard? Try being water boarded, that’s hard.”

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

IT HAS BECOME THE ROLE OF A LIFETIME…AND IT WAS WRITTEN SPECIFICALLY FOR JANE LYNCH.

LYNCH (From Glee)

“And once again I am making fun of your incredibly stupid hairdo.”

RATHER

Did you say to yourself, when they asked you to read for it or to take this role, "Boy, that's just the role for me. I'm the right person at the right time to do this?"

LYNCH

Yes. I love big stuff. I love huge choices and-- you know, and I loved that I was gonna be wearing a track suit-- that just, in itself, says so much about this person. You know, she has a frickin' uniform. She thinks she's in the Special Forces. You know, she's done a lot-- she coached Hillary Clinton in debate. (LAUGH) You know, she's got this whole thing that she makes up about herself and-- you know, she kind of sees herself as larger than life and has her own movie going on at all times in which she is the-- the hero and-- fighting battles and even if there is not a battle in front of her, she will create one. I love that. 3

RATHER

A lot of us can relate to that, that is of saying, you know, life is pretty mundane today, but I want to imagine I'm the hero. I sink the shot with-- at the buzzer that wins the game or I--

LYNCH

Exactly.

RATHER

--score the touchdown that wins the game.

LYNCH

And for some reason, everybody is afraid of her and believes her. (LAUGH) You know, and they're afraid to, like, you know, antagonize her.

RATHER

Well, did you know anybody like this coming up or is this straight out of your imagination?

LYNCH

Well, I-- you know why? Because I get asked it a lot now, I had to really think about it, and yes, I had a teacher at State. Her name was Jean Sharpfenburg. And she was grand and cruel. And she could tear you apart with a look. And she had an English accent, but she was raised in Iowa. And she was, you know, studied with-- Uta Hagen or actually, she's probably a contemporary of Uta Hagen, but she knew all of those people. And here she is in the cornfields of Illinois, kind of holding forth. And everybody was afraid of her. She would walk down the hall and people would look away. You wanted her to notice you, but then again, you didn't. You were-- it was one of those things where everybody was frozen and-- I-- you know, as I-- got older and I realized, you know, she did it with a kind of a little bit of a wink and-- was a wonderful teacher. But really tough.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

AND BUILDING OFF OF HER MEMORIES, LYNCH HAS CREATED ONE OF THE MOST UNIQUE CHARACTERS ON TELEVISION.

RATHER

Let's review some of your favorite lines-- from Glee, if you like, or wherever. What are some of your favorite lines? 4

LYNCH

Oh, let's see. Well, from Glee, one of my favorite lines is I go up to-- 's character, Kurt, the gay kid and-- I say-- "Loving musical theatre doesn't make you gay. It just makes you awful." (LAUGH) That's a good one. And I love saying--

RATHER

Vicious.

LYNCH

(LAUGH) Vicious. And then-- I have-- , who plays my head cheerleader, and she's gorgeous, like breathtakingly gorgeous. And I'm-- I sit across from her at my desk. And I say, "You remind me of a young Sue Sylvester, but without my bone structure." (LAUGH) That's a good one. And then both she and Santana are in my office and they have failed-- on a mission I'd sent them. And I say,

LYNCH (FROM GLEE)

"This is what we call a totally disaster. Ladies, I’m going to ask you to smell your armpits. That’s the smell of failure and it’s stinking up my office."

LYNCH

Or another one. "I've decided I will no longer be carrying photo ID.”

LYNCH (FROM GLEE)

“You know why? People should know who I am."

RATHER

With that attitude, you could anchor in a major market.

LYNCH

(LAUGHTER) Yeah, I really could. Yeah. Actually probably not a major market. Probably a really small-- small market, you know, maybe where they-- they-- they're a lot-- bigger than they think, a lot-- yes.

RATHER

So how did you get to Hollywood and the big time?

5

LYNCH

I was doing-- a show called The Real Live Brady Bunch with a bunch of my . We took the scripts from The Brady Bunch off the TV and we put them onstage and we were a huge hit. People lined up for blocks to watch us (LAUGH) act this show out that we all grew up with and that we all idealized as a child. And we kind of made fun of-- but it actually was kind of an-- an homage to that show.

RATHER

Time moves along and you're making a living. You do voiceovers. You do commercials. You do small, independent films, sort of bit parts in other films, but you haven't cracked through the big time.

LYNCH

As much as there was a part of me wanting to be famous and get big jobs, I was kind of happy. I was-- I felt successful. I was doing sketch with my friends and I-- I'd created a one-person show with three other people. (LAUGH) And-- and it was-- it was-- a great-- it was a great time. It was-- it was probably, one might argue, my most creative time and hopefully I have more creative times to come, but I had kind of-- a little bit of a restlessness, but that restlessness was to keep creating. And-- I was in great therapy. I was learning a lot about myself. And I was embracing all of this stuff that was kind of hiding away in the shadows. And that's where my work was coming from. So there was a profound change in how I was creating characters was I was actually, literally, pulling from myself and unashamedly and going, "This is what I think. And this is-- this is the part of me that I'm afraid. And I was putting it into-- into characters and I found the audience going, "Yeah, me too," or, "I know somebody like that." (LAUGHTER) And I-- that's when things really changed for me in terms of my work. It became much more profound for me.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

BUT IT WAS A CHANCE ENCOUNTER THAT WOULD ULTIMATELY CHANGE THE COURSE OF HER CAREER.

LYNCH

I was doing commercials, a lot of commercials at that time. It was kind of my time. Or I'd hit some, you know, was riding some wave in commercials. And I had a callback for a Kellogg's Frosted Flakes commercial. And it turns out Christopher Guest directs commercials all the time and his name was now underneath the-- it said, "Callback for Kellogg's Frosted Flakes. Director, Christopher Guest." And I was like oh.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

6

DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER GUEST HAS CREATED SOME OF THE MOST LEGENDARY ENSEMBLE COMEDY FILMS OF THE LAST FEW DECADES - LIKE THIS IS SPINAL TAP... AND WAITING FOR GUFFMAN. NOW HE WOULD BE DIRECTING LYNCH IN A COMMERCIAL. LYNCH KNEW HER COMMERCIAL COULD BE HER BIG BREAK.

LYNCH

Breaking for lunch-- the day of the-- the shoot with-- for the Kellogg's Frosted Flakes commercial. And-- Chris said-- came up to me and he said, "You know, movies. And I was, like, "Yeah, I know."

RATHER

I'm doing commercials today, but you know, I do movies--

LYNCH

Right, I-- you know, yeah, right. (LAUGH) I think it was just-- yeah, he was trying to, you know, he-- he's a funny guy. He's-- a man of few words. "You know, I do movies and I would-- you know, maybe we'll get to work some day." And I said, "Oh, I would love that." And that would-- that was enough. Well, not really, but I mean, it would have been enough. If it were enough, if that were all, that would have been enough. But anyway, yeah, that was about-- probably six months later, I was having coffee at a particular coffee shop. He walked in and he said, "Oh, I forgot about you, you know, I'm doing this movie. Come to my office." And by of the day, he had cast me in Best in Show. And I always think, what if I had gone to this coffee shop instead of that coffee shop, I would have never met him and-- you know.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

JANE LYNCH HAD BEEN DISCOVERED, THE MOVIE BEST IN SHOW IS A ABOUT THE COMPETITIVE DOG-SHOW CIRCUIT - AND LYNCH PORTRAYED A SELF-IMPORTANT AND SUPER COMPETITIVE DOG TRAINER. IT SEEMED ALMOST A ROLE SHE WAS BORN TO PLAY.

LYNCH (From Best in Show)

“And we have a little bit of a family dynamic right here. When I grew up my—my father was the uh, taskmaster. The disciplinarian which is what I do. I’m the mom slash daddy.”

RATHER

What do you like about that role? You-- did you think to yourself, "I'm pretty much playing myself?"

LYNCH

7

Yeah. Well, I-- at that point, I was smart enough and hip to the jive that you pull from yourself. And the best stuff comes from your own experience. So I took that part of me that always wanted to matter, to count, that, you know, I wanted the people at to see that I had made something of myself. And all-- there's-- a monologue that I did that was cut. I think it's in the extras where I say-- "I hope that everybody in my hometown of Romulus, ," where I said my character was from-- are seeing me up here now in the championship circle and wishing they had been nicer to me.

LYNCH (from Best in Show)

“I hope that all those people in Romulus, New York, my hometown. I hope all those people are going to see me take this title for the third time on national television, you know? And I hope that they’re all fat and married to people they hate and I hope that they wish they had been nicer to me.”

LYNCH

(LAUGHTER) So I used that part of myself that was, like, those who told me I couldn't do what I wanted to do or ignored me and didn't think I was special and I-- it's, like, "Someday, I'm gonna show 'em all." So I kind of based Christy Cummings-- on that aspect of-- of my own journey.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

ANOTHER FAMOUS DIRECTOR LYNCH HAS WORKED WITH IS , WHO MEMORABLY CAST HER AS AN ELECTRONICS STORE MANAGER IN THE HIT 2005 FILM 40-YEAR-OLD VIRGIN.

LYNCH (from The 40-Year-Old-Virgin)

“Are you still a virgin?”

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

STEVE CARELL, AN OLD FRIEND OF LYNCH, PLAYED THE TITLE CHARACTER, A MIDDLE-AGE MAN LOOKING FOR HIS FIRST INTIMATE EXPERIENCE OF LOVE.

LYNCH

Well, it was another one of those instances where a role was ori-- originally written for a man and-- God bless Nancy Walls, the wife of and a wonderful actress in her own right, said, "Steve, you need some women in your movie." And they called me into and we improvised and they gave me the role. And it was-- it was amazing.

And I had never met Judd and you know, I was a big fan of-- Judd Apatow. I was a big fan of . And-- you know, I-- it was-- it was-- it was-- one of those huge moments, again, like the Christopher Guest thing, huge. And it was-- we improvised a lot. We had a lot of fun 8 and was great and always sitting there, writing jokes and-- you know, adding and-- I got great direction from Judd behind the camera and he gave me some of my best lines.

And-- and it was great. It was a very heady, wonderful-- experience-- every day that we shot in the Smart Tech store, everybody was called in. So you weren't just-- even if you weren't on the call sheet, you know, their scene was on the call-- he had you there. He would say, you know, "Jane, get in there," or, "Seth, get in there." And you know, so I was in more scenes than I was in the script and it was so much fun.

(From The 40-Year-Old-Virgin)

LYNCH: “He serenaded me with this beautiful old Guatemalan love song.” CARELL: “Really? That--that sounds nice.” LYNCH Sings CARELL: Ok. LYNCH: “My goodness, I think we better get back to work. CARELL: “Yeah, yeah I better go back to work. So ok.” LYNCH: “Alright, so you mull it over and I’ll talk to you soon.” CARELL: “Alright I will thank you.”

ACT 3

(From Glee)

LYNCH: “Let me break it down for you William. You’re standing at a crossroads, you have two choices. Number one: this trophy will be installed in the choir room in a custom-built bullet- proof case as a daily reminder of your failure as a man and an educator. MORRISON: “What’s choice number two?” LYNCH: “You can kiss me, right here on the lips with tongue.”

DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)

IN FILM, AND ON TELEVISION, JANE LYNCH HAS CARVED OUT A REPUTATION FOR PLAYING CHARACTERS WHO WILL SAY THINGS MOST PEOPLE WON’T -

JANE LYNCH (From The 40-Year-Old-Virgin)

“You’re such a smartass.”

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

AND OFTEN WHAT SHE SAYS IS UNEXPECTED... AND FOR MATURE AUDIENCES ONLY.

LYNCH (From The 40-Year-Old-Virgin) 9

“I think I may have a solution for you. Have you heard of the term (EXPLETIVE) buddy?”

RATHER

I was tempted to try something with you, but I lost my nerve.

LYNCH

Oh no, do it. Do it. Jump off the cliff.

RATHER

Well, it was-- this was what it was gonna be. Let's have fun with this. Talk dirty to me.

LYNCH

(LAUGH) Very good. I wish I knew how to talk dirty. My characters talk dirty better than I do.

RATHER

Well, tell me something that I don't know about you and that you think most people don't know about you.

LYNCH

I know a lot about Greta Garbo. She's my favorite actress. I'm-- what you might not know and don't ask me any questions, because I'm inarticulate about it. I've been studying quantum physics. I have kind of from the spirituality bent and-- how its science and spirit come together in quantum physics and-- it's-- it's quite-- sometimes I find myself reading it. And I'm just bathed in BLISS and it just-- it makes me so happy.

RATHER

You read quantum physics.

LYNCH

I do.

RATHER

You're only the second person that I've interviewed in the last quarter of a century who reads quantum physics. The other is the Dali Llama, who studies quantum physics for the same reason--

10

LYNCH

Yeah, we have a lot in , the Dali Llama, and I think you'll find if you line us up, there's a lot.

RATHER

Well, who knew? How did you get into reading quantum physics?

LYNCH

Well, I guess my-- I've-- I've been a seeker my whole life. I'm trying to make sense of things and-- I'm one of those people that tries to put things in order, because I get overwhelmed.

RATHER

Did you have physics in high school or college?

LYNCH

No, not at all. I didn't-- you know, I-- and I will admit here on national television that I-- cheated my way through chemistry. I don't have a math head. I don't have a science head, but I-- I have a curiosity. And I find that my curiosity usually leads me where I need to go and it's led me here.

RATHER

Well, when did you get really interested in being an actress?

LYNCH

From the get-go. It's something that was there. You know how some people like to throw a ball and catch it and I always wanted to impersonate and I wondered what ma-- made people tick. You know, why does-- why does my dad put his shoes on like that? How interesting how he puts them on. It-- my dad was a ritualistic kind of guy and I loved watching him. And he enjoyed it, you know, put on his socks one at a time. He put on his shoes and he'd tap his shoe. And he'd take the Brill cream and go (MAKES SOUND), and go, "Yeah, handsome." And he'd do something with his tie a certain way and I loved watching that. And my mom has her way too. It was less ritualized, a little more random, a little more chaotic. And I was fascinated with that. And that kind of led me to-- observing people and human nature and--

RATHER

You know, you mentioned Brill cream. What I remember about Brill Cream is they had a commercial. "Brill Cream. A little dab will do you."

LYNCH 11

A little dab'll do you. We still use that. (LAUGH) People don't know that it's from Brill Cream. A little dab'll do you.

RATHER

But you were saying that you had this curiosity very early and that you knew you wanted to-- to do impersonations, that is, be an actress. Now was there a point where you said to yourself, "Yeah, that's the dream, but I'm never gonna be able to live that dream?"

LYNCH

Yes, my mother informed me of that (LAUGH) and she-- she'd always regretted this, but I was sitting at the dining room table. And I actually had a list of-- agents and I grew up on the south side of . And I somehow got a list of agents from Screen Actors Guild. And I was 12 years old. And I had gone downtown and gotten this list and I was writing casting directors in Chicago. And my mother said, "What are you doing?" And I said, "I'm writing casting directors. You know, I'm gonna be an actress." She said, "Oh, honey, not everybody gets to do what they want to do." And I burst into tears. And she said, "But I'm sure you'll be a great actress, but you know, you got to have something to fall back on. You need to learn to type. That was all that was available to her as a woman. And-- I-- I think it was projection 101. She pro-- and she also protecting me, protecting-- protection 101. I think she-- she was afraid-- from me to want something so badly and she was so afraid that I'd be disappointed.

RATHER

Tell me about your parents. Tell me about your home life.

LYNCH

My parents loved each other. My parents were partners. They were on the same team. They supported each other. It was a wonderful model for both-- for all three of the kids. I have an older sister and a younger brother and we're two years apart. My mother said she's a perfect example of the rhythm method, which is a very Catholic way of birth control.

But they-- they loved to sing. My dad was a wonderful tenor. He had a great ear for harmony. So do I. They did-- we were Catholic and-- a lot of our social life was church and the people at church. We didn't go to church. We only went to church on Sundays and that was kind of obligatory, but we-- they did plays. They did-- a thing every year called Port-a-Call, where every room in the-- school was-- a different port of call, like Scotland, Ireland, Hawaii, Bahamas and they would do a show-- inspired by that port of call. And that was my first experience of, "Oh my gosh, I want to be onstage." I loved it. And you know, it was a real happy household. We sang a lot. We loved musicals. But no one ever thought it was something-- it wasn't, like, "Oh, well, you're going to be on the stage and how goo-- wonderful for you." It was, like, "You can't do that. You-- you-- how-- how are you going to do that?"

12

RATHER

Were you into sports? Were you an athlete?

LYNCH

Yeah, I loved sports. I loved-- I played baseball -- sun up to sundown-- with the boys, hardball. And I was-- it was tough sometimes. Some days, they would decide they didn’t want a girl playing with them and I was persistent. Some days they would ignore me and not pick me, but I would just stay and wait. I played softball in high school and . Didn’t like that so much but I’m tall, so I was recruited right out of the hall. And-- but that my -- my love of sports kind of-- went away in the love of theatre and wanting to be onstage-- became my main focus.

RATHER

So you-- you're in high school and you want to be onstage. You're in some plays. And you had a down moment. What happened?

LYNCH

Well, this was my freshman year. I was cast in a one-act-- version of The Princess and the Pea called The Ugly Duckling. And I was cast as the king. And I always say it started that-- pattern of playing roles written-- originally written for men. And-- I remember I killed in the audition and then the first day of rehearsal, I didn't get the laugh I was expecting and I quit. I quit. I became fearful. I thought I was going to be a failure and I quit. And-- I was-- given the reputation of a quitter and no one cast me after that. You know, teachers wouldn't cast me. And it wasn't until my senior year that-- I took a theatre arts class where we did-- a production of Godspell and I got to be in it because I was in the class, but it was-- it was awful. It was-- I was- - I cried so much. I was, just, oh, it was awful. And I also determined at that point that I would never walk away from-- a part or an opportunity for fear. And I don't think I ever have.

RATHER

What did you take away from that that's carried forward with the rest of your life?

LYNCH

I don't-- I don't walk away. I don't-- I don't-- if I'm afraid of something, I take a deep breath and I do it anyway.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

LYNCH’S CAN-DO SPIRIT WAS ONE OF THE MAIN THEMES OF HER CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED 2011 AUTOBIOGRAPHY, “HAPPY ACCIDENTS.” THE BOOK WAS A NEW YORK TIMES BEST SELLER AND IT DETAILED HER TIME AS 13

UNDISTINGUISHED COLLEGE STUDENT AT ILLINOIS STATE UNIVERSITY - AN EXPERIENCE SHE SHARED WHEN SHE GAVE THE COMMENCEMENT ADDRESS TO OF 2012.

LYNCH (SMITH COLLEGE COMMENCEMENT SPEECH)

You’ve actually done far more than I was able to accomplish back on my college graduation day back in 1982. As a young person, I was a victim of overwhelming angst and free-floating anxiety, I spent a great deal of my time running around like a chicken with its head cut off. This ongoing frenzy caused me to send in my graduation registration without a stamp or a return address.

After my four mostly unfocused years as a solid C student at Illinois State University, thank you, Go Big Red, in the aptly named, Normal, Illinois. I sat where you now sit, hoping to God my named would be called and I would receive my diploma.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

AFTER INDEED GRADUATING, LYNCH WENT EAST TO CONTINUE HER THEATER STUDIES.

LYNCH

I got into the Cornell-- masters program for acting, MFA program, Cornell in upstate New York and--

RATHER

Well, now you're in the Ivy League.

LYNCH

Yeah, now I'm in the Ivy League, but it's funny, as when you're in the masters program, the undergraduates remind you that-- you know, you're not really in the Ivy League. You didn't have-- you know, you didn't have to have great grades to get in there, but whatever. I'm in the Ivy League.

And I did this all on-- on my own ambition, you know, my mother is still and parents are still saying, you know, this is not something you should look at as a career. In fact, I-- secretly changed my undergraduate-- major to theatre without them knowing. I was in mass communications, because that's kind of like theatre. My mom said (LAUGH), "It's adjacent." So I did this all on my own. I did the audition. I got the scholarship. And that was a great, great, great theatre learning experience.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

14

LYNCH EMERGED FROM CORNELL A CLASSICALLY TRAINED ACTOR - AND AFTER A STINT IN NEW YORK, SHE WENT BACK HOME.

LYNCH

I went back to Chicago, 'cause you can come home again. (LAUGH) And I started doing theatre in Chicago, which is a terrific, vibrant, non-Equity theatre scene. You know, I had the-- the absolute best time. I learned so much. I joined a Shakespeare company-- that kind of kicked me out after a couple of years because I was a little insufferable. I was classically cla-- trained, you know, and I knew better than everybody else. But-- I still learned a lot and we had a lot of fun and it eventually led to-- Second City, which kind of really wasn't on my radar, but-- it was one of the many auditions that-- I had one week and they cast me in their touring company.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

SECOND CITY IS A REVERED CHICAGO INSTITUTION - AN IMPROV SKETCH COMEDY GROUP THAT BOASTS A WHO’S WHO OF FAMOUS ALUMNI- JOHN BELUSHI, BILL MURRAY, , , , AND , JUST TO NAME. IT WAS HERE THAT JANE LYNCH TURNED HER SIGHTS FIRMLY ON COMEDY.

LYNCH

And now, all of a sudden, I'm making touring-- not a lot of money, but it was a lot to me touring around-- the country in a bus with a bunch of other funny people. And I was, like, I like this. I like sketch.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

BUT LIFE HASN’T ALWAYS BEEN COMEDY FOR JANE LYNCH - HOW SHE’S OVERCOME HER STRUGGLES... WHEN WE RETURN.

ACT 4

DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)

JANE LYNCH HAS BECOME ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS OPENLY GAY ACTRESSES IN HOLLYWOOD. IN THE SUMMER OF 2010 SHE MARRIED PSYCHOLOGIST LARA EMBRY. THE TWO HAVE SINCE SEPARATED AND DIVORCED. BUT A CHILDREN’S BOOK THEY CO-WROTE WHILE MARRIED IS COMING OUT LATER THIS YEAR IT’S CALLED MARLENE, MARLENE, QUEEN OF MEAN, ABOUT A YOUNG GIRL WHO’S A BULLY AND IT WAS INSPIRED BY LYNCH’S OWN PERSONAL LIFE...

JANE LYNCH

15

There was a part of me that was a bully, that was-- you know, and it came from an insecurity and it came from my own fears. And for some reason, I got a jolt of righteousness if I told somebody else what to do. And-- and I-- you know, someone deserved to hear what I thought about them. it gave me a false sense of power and it was usually-- I would end up feeling guilty afterwards and-- regretful and-- so-- my-- my ex, Lara, and I, came up with this character and Elizabeth Mixel, a friend of ours-- called Mean Marlene, who was just this kind of bright light and fun and everything, but she just could not help being mean. And it gave her negative attention, but it was attention. And I remember that-- I-- I would get-- like a hit off of that. I would get kind of a high from the negative attention, 'cause it was better than no attention at all and-- so we have this kid kind of go through her journey where it-- it-- it-- becomes better to make another choice and that you can still be who you are, was kind-- a person who kind of tells people what to do, a real natural leader, but does it in a way where people aren't intimidated and want to follow you.

RATHER

And you drew on your own experience for what we'll call your eras?

LYNCH

Yes. Yes.

RATHER

Are they completely over or do you still find yourself from time to time either wanting to bully somebody or actually bullying them?

LYNCH

I think-- you know, the flip side of that is not standing out for yourself and I suffer from both of those things. (LAUGH) Either I was, you know-- aggressively in your face or saying, "No, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine." So I've found equanimity in that. I-- I think I can-- if I feel that-- that-- fire in my belly where I want to say, "You can't treat me that way." Or-- or, you know, "Pay attention to me." If I feel that coming up, I-- I'm able to sooth it. And still ask for what I want, but in a way that might actually get me (LAUGH) what I want.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

AND LYNCH HAS MANY REASONS TO BE HAPPY. IN 2011 SHE HOSTED THE PRIME- TIME EMMYS... AND SHE NOW FRONTS A HIT GAME SHOW ON NBC CALLED , WHICH PAIRS REGULAR PEOPLE WITH CELEBRITIES IN A SHOWDOWN OF POP-CULTURE KNOWLEDGE. ONE OF THE CREATORS OF THE SHOW IS LYNCH’S FRIEND, EMMY-AWARD WINNING ACTOR , OF WILL AND GRACE FAME.

RATHER

16

Well, in terms of your career, it's another big win. You have Glee. You have-- Game Night. You're now rich and famous.

LYNCH

(LAUGH) I'm famous.

RATHER

Oh, come on, with hit shows like this? Come on.

LYNCH

I've got-- yes, I'm-- I'm doing quite well.

RATHER

Well, do you ever think back to those early years, when by your own admission, you were a mean girl, a mean woman in some way?

LYNCH

Yes, I certainly had--

RATHER

Didn't-- didn't treat your colleagues all that well.

LYNCH

Correct.

RATHER

Tough on people under you. You changed. How and why did you change?

LYNCH

A lot of it is therapy with this wonderful teacher that I still call my teacher. I-- and I created a character called the Angry Lady out of this. It all-- I know where all my-- it came from my fears and my insecurities and I would lash out from that. And once I got ahold of that, I took them out of the dark and put them in the light of day. They-- they lost their power. And I put 'em into this character called the Angry Lady that I did in my one-person show where I wore a neck brace and an eye patch and I was suing everybody for hurting me, you know? And I had this whole thing that she would go through and at the end, she was, like, "I will sue your ass." And I got to say 17 that as Sue Sylvester a couple of times too. And I think once you do that and you make fun of it, it has no more power over you anymore.

RATHER

You said fear and insecurity. How much of that do you think, and you can only give me your opinion, had to do with your struggle to find your sexual identity?

LYNCH

Yeah, well, that was-- that was a big one. I think-- you know, you're-- you're a young girl in the south side of Chicago in the 1960s. Nobody's gay. As far as you know, you're the only person in the world with this affliction, 'cause you've heard it spread about. You know-- you hear about people talking about men who hold hands on the beach in Florida and there's something wrong with them. I remember a friend told me that she saw that when she was on vacation in Florida. And-- and you think, "Oh my God, I've got that. I have the girl version of that. You know, that's-- that-- wreaks havoc on your sense of self as a young person." And-- you know, it wasn't until, you know, I'm in New-- places like New York and I'm in the theatre, teeming with gays. (LAUGH) But even when I was in the '80s-- when I was in theatre-- people weren't out. We knew, you know, we'd look at each other and go, "I know who you--"

RATHER

But when-- what you just described, you were, what, 13, 14, 15 years old--

LYNCH

Yeah. Yeah.

RATHER

Did you share this with your family? Did you share it with friends?

LYNCH

No. Oh no, no, no, no. I remember I wrote it in a journal and I went to, like, the next town to throw it away. (LAUGH) No, I didn't share it with anybody. I didn't tell my parents until I was 31. Yeah, I was really deeply ashamed and afraid of what--

RATHER

You were afraid of what their reaction would be--

LYNCH

Yeah, I was afraid I'd be thrown away. 18

RATHER

But you weren't, is my--

LYNCH

I wasn't. I-- but I tell you what, when I was 18, if I told them, I don't think my parents would ever throw me away, but I think it would have been really difficult for them to deal with. But by the time I was 31, things had changed. Clinton was president. And-- you know, they didn't want to lose the relationship with me.

RATHER

Did you tell them in person or call them?

LYNCH

I wrote them a letter. A therapist told me, "Write them a letter." And-- you don't have to send it, but that's the ruse--

RATHER

Oh, but that's the technique.

LYNCH

Yeah, (LAUGH) it's the technique. So I wrote this beautiful letter, not thinking I had to send it. And it-- I read it to my therapist. She said, "It's beautiful." And I said, "I think I'll send it." She said, "It's a good idea." And so I did. I sent them a letter, called my brother and I said, "Are you sitting down?" And he said, "Yeah, what's wrong?" He thought I was gonna say I was sick. And I said, "I'm gay." And he said, "Oh, okay. Don't worry about it. Don't-- I'll-- I'll make sure I-- I tell mom and dad there's a letter coming from you and that we'll-- you know, we'll read it together." And I said thank you. And that was-- and my parents thought the same thing in the first paragraph. They thought I was telling them I was sick. So when it-- when I said, "I'm gay." They were, like, "Oh, thank God. (LAUGH) She's just gay, honey." And my dad said, "That's okay, right?" And she said, "Of course it's okay."

RATHER

Were you or were you not fearful that if people found out, it would hurt your career?

LYNCH

I was fearful of that, of-- of people finding out and it hurting my career before my career took off, you know, and by the time I-- you know, did Best in Show, I was fine with me-- I wasn't 19 afraid at all. I didn't ha-- I didn't-- and I played-- a lesbian. It didn't even strike me that, "Oh my gosh, my first big role where people will know who I am, I'm playing a lesbian." I never even thought of that.

RATHER

I think you'll agree and if you don't, you would say so, that in terms of our beloved United States of America, we've come a ways on gay and lesbian issues.

LYNCH

Well, in terms of time and progress, it's been (SNAPS) -- I mean, it really has. It's been just-- the last-- the last-- what we've done in terms of gay rights and acceptance of us as just being another way of loving in the last 20 years has been amazing. And I think it's kind of its own thing. I can't really predict what will be next, but I bet marriage is gonna continue to-- it'll be-- nationwide, I'm sure, in our lifetime, in your lifetime. And--

RATHER

It'll have to hurry to get to my lifetime--

LYNCH

Yeah, they're gonna-- (LAUGH) and I think-- I think it will. And I think it will. I think there are just as in civil rights and the acceptance of even-- black and white people marrying in some parts of this country is, like, in parts of Mississippi-- is just not accepted. And you know, you can't-- you can't lose hope because of that. I think there are places where it's just not going to change. But I think for the most part, it's-- it's on its way. It's kind of like-- a steady wildfire now that's just building up steam.

RATHER

Well, at the risk of it being a cliché question, do you think you will live to see an openly gay and/or lesbian president of the United States?

LYNCH

Oh yeah. Yeah, that'll happen. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be-- I'll be ab-- young and spry enough to campaign for them, should I find them worthy of my vote.

Act 5

DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)

TODAY, JANE LYNCH SEEMS TO HAVE HER LIFE IN ORDER. HER EXTENDED AND CONTINUING SUCCESS ON GLEE HAS MADE HER A BONAFIDE STAR. FAME AND 20

FORTUNE HAVE COME TO HER RELATIVELY LATE FOR AN ACTRESS, AND ONLY AFTER SHE CONQUERED A DEMON THAT SHE SAYS BEGAN IN HER TEENAGE YEARS - ALCHOHOL.

JANE LYNCH

I drank every night. I-- it bothered me. I had debilitating hangovers. I was very depressed. And I kind of had a moment of clarity, one of those where the-- the veil lifts a little bit and-- and your higher self comes in and says, "No more." And you're almo-- like I feel like I was tapped on the head by-- a sobriety fairy-- fairy and I became sober.

RATHER

At what age?

LYNCH

30. 31.

RATHER

And did-- AA help with that?

LYNCH

Yeah, I went to AA for, like, eight or nine years and yeah, AA was great. Not only did it give me principles and, you know, steps, it was spiritually great. It continues to be a spiritually-based program, which was really good for me. And it-- gave me a social life. I-- all of my best friends were in the meetings.

RATHER

I’m going to ask you a fairly serious questions, who are you, professionally and personally? First professionally, who are you?

LYNCH

I'm on time and I'm serious and yet I'm-- I know how to have fun. I like me professionally. (LAUGH) I like who I am. I like my makeup artist, Liza, 'cause she's fast, just like me. We show up. We do our thing and-- I think-- you know what? I-- I love being invited to the party, so I make sure that people will want to re-invite me. You know, I-- I don't press for great trailers. I don't ask for extra things, although now I'm starting to. I'm starting to have a little more entitlement, like, I want to be able to do this, and-- like at Hollywood Game Night¸ I had to ask. And they said yes.

RATHER 21

To what? To--

LYNCH

To FO-- I had to ask FOX. And bless 'em, they said yes.

RATHER

For a trailer?

LYNCH

Yeah.

RATHER

Well, I hope our trailer was to your liking, and the hot tub. (LAUGH) We got the note about the hot tub.

LYNCH

Yes, please. Good.

RATHER

(LAUGH) Or that's professionally. Who are you personally.

LYNCH

I'm an introvert, actually. I think-- I just read an article on Huffington Post, "Are You An Introvert?" And I concluded yes. (LAUGH) I think I'm many things, but-- as we all are, but-- currently, I'm calling myself an introvert. And that will probably change, 'cause I don't like to label myself too much. I like to spend time alone. I am never happier than when I look at my watch and it says 8:30, which means I can get into my pajamas and I can get into bed with my books and my dog and my headphones and-- pop a melatonin. (LAUGH) And then-- then I'm up at, like, 4:30, five o'clock, but-- and I have-- a few friends. I have, like-- quality, not quantity. I'm not a party person. I get great anxiety at parties. I like to host them, which makes me also a good Hollywood Game Night host. I think-- I'm very comfortable in that position.

RATHER

But not as a participant in the game.

LYNCH

22

Not as a participant, no.

RATHER

Why is that? Fear?

LYNCH

Yeah, I guess fear. I-- I-- I'm not comfortable. (LAUGH) I'm more comfortable-- being, like, in charge (LAUGH) and telling people what to do and-- and leaving the space for them to have fun. Nothing makes me happier than when I see people on Hollywood Game Night jumping up and down and high-fiving and shaming each other. I love that. That's gold for me. And I love throwing parties at home where I'll see two people who have never met before off in a corner, laughing and, you know, animated discussion. And I go, "Oh, they found each other."

RATHER

Beginning to end, what's been the worst moment of your life?

LYNCH

Divorce is not fun. That was-- that was not fun.

RATHER

And that's a wound that's still open.

LYNCH

It's not a wound. It's just-- it's disappointing, you know, she's great. I'm great.

RATHER

Just didn't work.

LYNCH

Yeah. Yeah. I-- I don't feel wounded. You know, disappointed. The worst-- yeah. Something. I have rose-colored glasses. You know, there the times that I-- when I was a kid, like, when my mother told me I couldn't have what I wanted. I remember that just-- leveling me.

RATHER

You mean, you couldn't have your dream.

LYNCH 23

You couldn't have my dream. One of the great things about this is-- about this business is you get used to rejection, of being told no. And you lick your wounds and you move onto the next thing. Well--

RATHER

You try out and they say, "Thank you very much. You're not right for this role--"

LYNCH

Thank you, but-- exactly and then-- it's personal. It's-- it's-- will I attain-- you know, ever attain my dream? And you know, I've just gotten better at that, and thicker skin around that and an equanimity around it that I didn't have when I was younger, but-- when I would lose a job when I was younger, it was awful.

RATHER

Equanimity. You think you've reached that.

LYNCH

I have in many areas of my life.

RATHER

Now I'm gonna ask you the best moment of your life.

LYNCH

Oh, that's hard to say and hopefully-- I think I've had several. I think the best moments in my life was when I realized that I-- I have everything I need, everything I need and I-- I don't have a moment. It's not-- I can't say, "Oh, it's when I won an Emmy. Oh, when I hosted the Emmys. Oh, when I got Glee." Those are supposed to be your highlights and they're not really. (LAUGH) Those are almost numbing experiences. But-- I think it's the moments that I realized I have everything I need. And my little dog too. And that's-- yeah. You know, Greta Garbo always said, "I don't need to live with my love. They need to live across the street."

RATHER

You mentioned Greta Garbo earlier, like early in our interview, you said she was your favorite actor.

LYNCH

24

I don't know exactly what it is. But there is-- a sadness and a self-containment, all at the same time. I-- I-- you know, she never had a lover. She had lovers, but she never had a mate. And she always reserved, even in love scenes, she's always reserved. She never gave fully.

RATHER

Do you say-- you see yourself as sort of a modern day, 21st century Greta Garbo?

LYNCH

That would be-- sound-- completely immodest, I think, but (LAUGH) -- I see-- I see what you say. I-- I think that-- yes, there-- that part of her, you know, I-- I don't give it up to everybody, even though I seem very accessible. (LAUGHTER) I-- I give it up to few. And I do most of my-- well, I'm giving it up to you right now. I mean, I-- I choose, I guess. But I-- I've learned restraint, especially through becoming kind of famous, when to connect and when to hold back. And she held back a lot, all the time.

ACT 6

DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)

JANE LYNCH HAS BECOME FAMOUS BY BEING PART OF A TEAM... WHETHER IN GLEE OR IN MOVIES LIKE TALLADEGA NIGHTS, SHE’S PLAYED MEMORABLE CHARACTERS AS PART OF AN ENSEMBLE. OVERALL LYNCH HAS APPEARED IN OVER A HUNDRED MOVIES AND TV SHOWS - A BELOVED CHARACTER ACTOR IN DEMAND. SHE’S PLAYED ALONGSIDE SOME OF THE BIGGEST NAMES IN THE BUSINESS LIKE IN THE 2009 FILM JULIE AND JULIA.

JANE LYNCH

I'm not-- a leading lady. I-- I'm a character person and-- and in a way there, you know, I think there's more fun in that milieu than there is in the--

RATHER

Well, I'm interested to hear you say that, if you don't mind carrying it forward. See, I think of you and I think the public-- by and large now thinks of you as a star, a superstar, and a leading lady.

LYNCH

Yeah. Yeah. I think that I'm-- I'm lucky in that I'm-- I-- you know-- I'm a character actor who's- - famous but-- and I think that-- it would be really great to be the lead in something, but I never have. And perhaps that's something that I'm-- I'm reaching for after this, but I must say, I love being a part of a group. 25

I've always wanted to be part of an ensemble. I-- I love being a part of a group where we allow each other to shine. And that's what I loved about doing movies with, like, Steve Carell and . The best joke always wins. They're the stars and their name is above the title, but they're so generous. And they love being a part of the group too. And-- and I've always-- that's where I thrive, I think. Yeah. I-- I love ensemble comedy. It's my favorite thing.

RATHER

Well, having promised that we were gonna have some fun (LAUGH), heard any good jokes lately?

LYNCH

Oh, God. Yeah, I-- I got a good one for you. 80-year-old man, it's-- I'll probably make him even older, 'cause I don't want to make fun of you. (LAUGH) 97-year-old guy--

RATHER

That's all right. I can take it.

LYNCH

It's his birthday. And knock, knock, knock. And he opens the door. And a beautiful woman says, "I'm here to give you super sex." He says, "I'll take the soup."

RATHER

(LAUGHTER) I may be able to eat out on that

RATHER

Well, you've-- done so well and I compliment you. I put you on the spot, "Heard any good jokes?" And boom, not only (LAUGH) did you tell a joke, but you told it well. It was a great joke.

LYNCH

Thank you.

RATHER

I want to thank you so much. You’ve given of yourself. I couldn’t ask for anything more.

LYNCH

26

I appreciate it. I really enjoyed talking to you too.

RATHER

And I’ve learned a lot.

LYNCH

I have too, I have too. Thank you.

END TRANSCRIPT