Minnesota Youth Gang Research Project Minnesota Historical Society

Tape62Mi Interview with JB 18 year old Black American Burnsville Black Peace Stone Nation

Interviewed by Kate Cavett Hand in Hand Tuesday August 25, 1998 Dakota County Juvenile Detention Center .06 KC: Introduce yourselfto me. JB: (name) KC: And how old are you? Project JB: 18. KC: I've got you frightened by this mic, huh? What else frightens you besides this mic JB? JB: Nuttin. KC: Ok. JB: My mama die. KC: Your mama dying? Society JB: Yeah, thas the only thing. My mama dyin though, thasResearch the only thing that frightens me. KC: We'll go back to that, but first I want to ask you, what name can I use for this interview? .51 JB: JB. KC: JB. Is that your street name? Gang JB: Thas what people call me, I don't know what you mean by street name? KC: So everybody calls you JB? Historical JB: Yes. KC: So, is that a good name toYouth use? Is that going to give you anonymity? In other words is that going to keep you anonymous? Do we need to use a different name to keep you secret? JB: Not unless they was around my neighborhood. I don't think nobody around my neighborhood is gonna hear this. KC: Ok. JB, what nationality are you? JB: Black, Afro American.Minnesota KC: What else besides Afro American? JB: ThasMinnesota it. I think we had some Chinese people in our family way, way back. Thas why I got small eyes. But, I duuno. Far as I knew, I was Black. 1.59 KC: Ok. I didn't know if you might be Indian, too. JB: Yeah, as a matter a fact, I jus found out that I a Indian. Cuz, ah ... my aunt is part a the Midawauktin Tribe in Mission Lake with them casino people. I jus found that out, thas why I keep forgettin it. KC: You looked Native American to me. JB: I dunno, I ain't know till moved ta Minnesota, so. I don't consider myself Native American. KC: Where are you from? JB: Chicago. JB2

KC: What part of Chicago? JB: The West side, K Town. 4157 West Adams. KC: Why is mama dyin the most scary thing that could happen to you? JB: Cuz I don't know what I'd do widout my mama. She jus ... I mean, jus the rock a my life. Thas my mama, man. Ifs been me an my mama since the get go. KC: Do you have any brothers and sisters? JB: I got step brothers and sisters but I don't .. 1don't mess wid em, cuz they not of this world. That I see, they not like me, ya know what I'm sayin. They all inta stupid stuff, so, I don't mess wid em. I like my step rna though, she cool. KC: Is step mom and dad in Chicago or here? JB: No, my step mom lives here. My dad an her split up. But, she still my step mom. Ya know Black folks keep family ties, so she still my step mama. Project 3.28 KC: Where does she live? JB: She use ta live in Burnsville, but now she moved ta Rosemont, in a project. Cimarron or Cineraon or whatever. She live out there. KC: How long have you lived in Minnesota? JB: I moved to Minnesota in '95. Yeah, in '95. Society KC: So what brought you to Minnesota? Research JB: I got into it wid a, I got into it wid the GO's an my mama .... they had came at me an I came at them, an my cousin who use ta live wid me, me an my mama, told my mama what was goin on cuz she was like ... my mama use ta work all the time. An she ain't never know what was goin on. An she use ta wonder why I was in the house so much.Gang Liked ta stay in the house cuz they use ta shoot at me every time I came outside. An, uh ... 1got ta shootin at dem back. I got tired a bein in da crib, ya know what I'm sayin. An then she was like; I'm not gonnaHistorical have my son raised up like this. I did this, my brothers did this. Ya know she was like always seein people die over this stuff, so we're gonna move, ya know what I'm sayin, ta where .....Youth cuz her an my step mama are friends ... so she was like, my step mama was tellin her that ifs good in Minnesota an ifs good ta raise kids in Minnesota, so we moved ta Minnesota. KC: But that didn't keep you from being a banger? 4.48 JB: I don't gang bang, I jus know what I am, ya know what I'm sayin. I'm gonna be all well till go, but, ya know ifs not like I beMinnesota out there robbin old ladies or somethin, ya know what I'm sayin. There's a difference between bein affiliated an gang bangin. If you stand out there gang bangin, then you ignorant,Minnesota ya know what I'm sayin. Ta me bein a, bein a, ya know what I'm sayin, bein who I am is all about money. Ifs been about money since as far back as I can remember. But, cha know wid money come death, ya know what I'm sayin ... wid money come death, wid death come ya know what I'm sayin, just ya know everybody revolve around money, you know how it go. You wouldn't be here if you ain't want money, right. KC: JB, I don't get paid for this. JB: For real? KC: For real, I'm not gettin paid for doin this. This is my vacation day. Ok, so how old were you when you started learning about all this revolving around money?

JB: How old was I? KC: Um huh. JB: Man, like, before I could, ya know what I'm sayin, since I been able ta talk ifs always been about money. See, my daddy, ya know my daddy hustled, my mama hustled. You could ax, I swear ta god, my mama use ta have dope in her ... she use ta .. my mama she had ta, she had ta sell dope, cuz thas the only way we could survive, ya know what I'm sayin. Cuz she took care a my cousin, cuz he stayed in the ... he stayed on the West side where I use ta live with my grandma. An I moved back wid my mama an she was like, ya know what I'm sayin, I gotta do somethin, I gotta do somethin. An she use ta tell us ta keep people out the house so she, ya know what I'm sayin, wanted her money comin basically. But these days when we talk about that, ya know, she say JB I had ta do what I gotta do ta survive. So, thas how, ya know what I'm sayin, livin poor you learn about money. 6.41 Project KC: Have you always lived poor, JB? JB: Not now, not now. I'm livin lavish, now. Ya know what I'm sayin, thas why my ma, ya know, thas why my mama mad at me now, cuz ya know she finally made it away from, like I said ta one a my reps, she said ah, she said ... son, God made a way fer me. An the last word before she left the courtroom was she would pray for me. Ya know what I'm sayin, so she made a way for me now, so we livin lavish, now. We live in a house, we livin like the White folks. Society KC: Livin in a house is livin like the White folk? Research JB: Yeah, we got our garbage under the sink an everything, ya know what I'm sayin. I got, I cut the grass in the mornin an stuff. Ifs tight, we livin like the White folks. KC: So, whafs making you live like the White folk? 7.36 Gang JB: Ah, shoot...jus havin, jus bein able ya know what I'm sayin, come outside see White folks. Like one thing that trip me out, we put the garbageHistorical can in the front a the house with the little blue recyclin thing .... an that ... that'd trip me out, man, when they do that, ya know what I'm sayin. I walk back in the houseYouth an jus look at it. I got a 4 seasons porch, ya know what I'm sayin, thas ....thas what I'm talkin about, thas how I wanna live, ya know what I'm sayin, like the White folks. KC: But, where do you get the money to do that? JB: Cuz my mama. When my mom came ta Minnesota, I guess her an my stepmama was brainstormin on stocks or somethinMinnesota an she had a um .. 1 don't know if it was a pension plan or somethin wid her job in Chicago, but she had ta pay fines fer takin it out early or somethin, but she took that money an investedMinnesota it in somethin an she made paper. An then she built a restaurant in Chicago an she named it after me an my cousin, the cousin that lived wid me, an my name is J__ , his name is Ceneca, so she called it JC's. An then from that restaurant she built another one, then she build my uncle a church, an now she jus got paper. She retired an everything, she stayin in the crib an chill, ya know, so. KC: So she had a successful business goin in Chicago? JB: Yeah. KC: So, you had it nice in Chicago, too? JB: No, she built the restaurant in Chicago, an she gonna build a... a Chicago restaurant up here. Ya

know like Italian beef, ya know people don't know about that kind a food up here, they just know, ya know what I'm sayin, they know about Minnesota stuff. Chicago's totally different from Minnesota. KC: My partner is from Chicago, so we were doing speaking once and he stopped and bought popcorn and hot sauce ..... and he put hot sauce on popcorn. JB: Yeah, thas the bomb. KC: So, what kind of a restaurant was it that your mom had in Chicago? JB: She had a um .. .ifs like a fast food restaurant an she got a... when she built my uncle the church, ifs a store thas connected to the church an they goLthey sell like soul food. Ifs like a sit down, ya know what I'm sayin, restaurant. They sell like grits an ya know, but the other one jus sell like french fries an Italian beef an Italian sausages an stuff like that. KC: So is she going to build a soul food restaurant here in Minnesota? JB: No, she gonna build a fast food restaurant here in Minnesota. It wouldn't...itProject wouldn't fit in if she bought a soul food restaurant in Minnesota. KC: Maybe not in Burnsville, there are parts that would sell. JB: But she gonna, she gonna build a barber shop out here. Cuz my cousin, the one dat use ta live wid me, thas like her other son. She sent him ta Moeller's Barber School in ah ... on Lake Street in Minneapolis, an she gonna build him his own shop, so he can jus work out the shop an she told me if all else fail, that she'll send me ta barber school, too. But, I don't wanna do dat. ISociety don't wanna be standin on my feet all day. Research KC: Does your mama know what you're into? 10.4-- JB: Yeah, she a... she ... cuz one day I came home, I had got inta it wid the GO's an she had, she had seen that I had a towel wid blood on me. An Gangshe asked me, she was like wuz up? An I was like, I wouldn't tell her, I was like they jus jumped on me. An she was like JB, don't nobody jump on nobody for no reason. An I'm like so, so, so, so .... an then sheHistorical was like; well what happened. An then I told her that we had got into it in school an that I had whooped on one a them an they had came back 8 deep an whooped on me. An she Youthwas like, well ...... an after that she jus thought it was like teenagers fightin, ya know what I'm sayin. She ain't really take it serious. 11.23 KC: So does she know how deep you are in the organization here? JB: Yeah she, ya know what I'm sayin, she, she be lookin aLcuz when I wore ... had my hat broke off ta the left, ya know, sheMinnesota be straighten your hat out boy, ya know what I'm sayin, pull your pants up. An then she was like - wha do ya all get out a gang bangin? An, she would like, ya all wanna know how taMinnesota ... cuz my mama, see you might not believe this, but my mama an Larry Hoover an my uncle an G Sharp all all them started the GO's. They call they self Supreme Gangsters, she took me to Chicago library in Chicago an showed me, it was a paper from like 1965, 1972 somethin like that one a them years an it says Supreme Gangsters go ta school an they all walk, they was all walkin ta school. An I was trippin, she was like, man, she was like, the stuff you all doin shit I use ta run around with sawed offs an automatic weapons. An she found the pistol that I got up here for now, she found that pistol first, an she was like, ah ... so what chu need the gun for, ya know what I'm sayin, so waz goin on now. So, now you back in the shit in Minnesota? I left Chicago .... an she got mad, she was ... she was too mad. An then she was jus like, man, ya know, I see that I can't, ya know what I'm sayin, that I can't make you

leave it, so therefore I'm gonna jus guide you the right way, ya know what I'm sayin. She was like, I don't wanna see, ya know what I'm sayin, my only son dead, she was like so, if you not gonna stop gang bangin, do it the right way, ya know what I'm sayin. Don't be out there bogus, so .. so some little coward can come kill ya. She always tell me, cuz a coward' II shoot you. A real man will fight you, but a coward'il shoot you. But thas gonna be the death a me, not listenin to my mama. 13.00 KC: Lefs back up. I want to know how you got in. I mean it sound like you've got an incredibly loving mama who's wanted to protect you and not wanted you to do stuff. Now, if she was hanging with Hoover, thafs Folk and you're telling me you're People. JB: See, what it was, my mama. Ya know what I'm sayin, all that stuff went on an they all broke apart. Hoover went ta jail, my uncle Howard, they use ta call em Frog, him an Hoover was tight, he a preacher, ya know what I'm sayin. An my mama, ya know what I'm sayin, Projectshe went ta sellin drugs an, ya know they all jus broke apart here. Yeah, she stopped gang bangin, but she stayed in the gang. An my uncle's, man, they Folks, my Uncle Ken a 13 Star (unclear) he locked up now, my uncle (unclear) he was a Folk, but he ... he dropped his flag. My uncle Zac, he a teacher at Delano High School on the West side a Chicago an he a Folk. Ya know what I'm sayin, they all affiliated ya know what I'm sayin, but they don't gang bang no more. Thas what, ya know what I'm sayin, thas what I'm tryin ta say. But my dad, my dad is a, he was a Black Panther. AnSociety my dad is a Black Stone. An I had a.... went ta (unclear) town an a.... you know what (unclear)Research town is? Ifs jus like this little, ifs like a.... what you call, I dunno, like a Burnsville Center, Chicago type Burnsville Center. Ya know what I'm sayin, but ifs jus stuff everywhere, ya know you could buy tires an buy tires an all kind a stuff. An a, I went down there an I was talkin ta my dad, an I was little, I was real litHe an I was like, he was like boy my mama, your mama tol me you wereGang doin this an doin that an I ain't never respected my dad, ya know what I'm sayin. Cuz, he was never a dad, ya know so I talk ta him like he any other nigger ya know what I'm sayin. I, ya know, he like - wellHistorical you out there wid them Folks. I like yeah they my Folks they my dad, he ... he didn't smack me, but he jus kinda muffed me, like you (unclear) I'm like what, ya know what I'm sayin anYouth I thought about it an then I seen all them GD's around my hood, man, they turnin ... they jus turn their back on each other. I use ta see GD's get jumped at school an Folks would jus sit there an watch em. I be like, man I don'twanna be part a you all. An den my cousin, the one that cut hair, the one thas been livin wid me all this time, he a Folk, too. An he was havin girls over in the next town, an they ah ... they was like, man why don't chu come over wid us. I'm like, I'm not goin over there .... all you hooks.Minnesota I went over there, they was like .... well, you wanna be a Moe little man? I'm like, man ...... KC: YouMinnesota want to be a what man? JB: A MOE, do I wanna be a Stone. I'm like I don't wanna be no hook. An then they was like, man .. ya know what I'm sayin .... this an that. .. this an that. An they like you're family, this an that, ya know, an then my cousin talked ta me an then the next week I went over there an ya know what I'm sayin, they gave me the lit, they gave me the 5 points to the star, they gave me the Holy Divine, they gave me like ahh ... pages off the (unclear), but I ain't never read that. An I had, man I had a gag a stuff. I had the Holy Divine. Ya know I had the Sergeant Kaba, the Kaba , I had a (unclear) a stuff, but I didn't read all of it, I jus read the Holy Divine, cuz thas the only lit that you needed ta know, ya know what I'm sayin. Thas how I became a Moe. I was like 8, yeah I was like 8 or 9.

KC: You became a mole? JB: A Moe. M-O-E. KC: A Moe. An M-O-E. JB: Yeah, a Master of Education. A MOE, all well MOE, thas what ya know what I'm sayin. Thas what all the brothers say all well Moe. KC: So at 8 or 9, you learned some lit and you became a Moe. JB: Yeah. KC: Did they have a ritual to make you a Moe? 16.55 JB: No, see cuz my cousin had already, he was already runnin the mob, so ya know, I kinda slid in. For other people it was, ya know, they had ta get, I dunno, I ain't never seen nobody get beat down, I'm not even gonna sit here an lie, people be talkin about -I got beat in. I ain't ever Projectheard a nobody gettin beat in ta nothin. Ya know I heard a people gettin put on probation, but fer me it was kinda easy ta get in, cuz ya know my cousin was runnin it anyway. So, I jus, ya know back then tha was jus, they was 16 ta 17, so it wadn't serious, ya know it what I'm sayin. It was jus ya know litHe wanna be gang bangers an then they got older an when they got older, they got inta hard stuff an I was jus comin, ya know, of ages, 10, 11 years old. So I hangin wid them an they doin , ya know what I'm sayin, ungodly things an l'm ... I'm workin right along wid em ya know what I'm sayin. Society KC: Do you still remember the lit? Research JB: Ah ... 1remember the Holy Divine, cuz thas the only thing I learned. It was ah ...I think ifs (unclear) I remember it said, give all love ta Kaba an Sergeant Kaba an give all praises to our god Allah an we shall not....we shall not destroy our bodies with the food of a ungodly animal....it was talkin about the pig, cuz ya know we're not spose ta eatGang pork. An it said, we shall not a... destroy our bodies with ungodly, ungodly temptations, an it was talkin about the White woman, I forgot what all tha said. An it said, that we spose ta pray an then I know theHistorical end of it said ah .. alliove to the east, all world to the east an all fire ta the east. Ya know what I'm sayin, so, all love to the east, which is pointin towards Mecca I guess. Ya know what I'mYouth sayin,l know what it means now, cuz I read further into it, ya know what I'm sayin, cuz I'm thinkin about becomin a Muslim, but cha know what I'm sayin, ifs ... ..ifs ...if you don't understand .. .if you jus never sat down an jus knew what every word mean, then you wouldn't understand it. I jus knew the words, I didn't know what it meant, but now that I get older, ya know what I'm sayin. If I had it before me, I wish I did, cuz then I'd know what all of it mean. But, back then it was jus words. Minnesota 19.17 KC: WhatMinnesota was some of the kind of stuff, the kind of work you did while you were in Chicago? JB: Wha chu mean? KC: Well, how did you work with the organization there? JB: I was, see ... they ... they, I was a shorty, so I use ta be a lookout or security all the time. An they use ta gimme a, I had a litHe .22 an they, they'd be like if you see any (unclear) bus at em, cuz the Folks use ta be, the Folks use ta like wait tell we have a goal or wail til we have a session an then they would come past an shoot up the session, ya know what I'm sayin. An that a... that a be, you bound ta get a Moe, cuz there's 200 of us out there. So, they use ta be, man, you see a (undear) bus at em an we'll hear the shots, an we'll disburse. I'm like, cool, but I ain't never had ta, ya know what I'm sayin, bus

at em on my own. Ya know, jus me againstthem, cuz if I seen em, I'll run I ain'Lcuz I was the shorty, ya know what I'm sayin. If I seen em hit the block, I'll bus in the air while I'm runnin ya know what I'm sayin. I won't (unclear) stand there an shoot at no (unclear) they gotAK's an I got a .22. Please, I ain't gonna give my life ta you all niggers, are you sick. KC: paughter] How long did it take you to get hooked up once you got here in Minnesota? 20.4-- JB: I came ta Minnesota (unclear) ya know what I'm sayin. Ifs not like .. .ifs like everybody migratin, ya know what I mean, everybody here in Minnesota, ya know, the land a milk and honey, ya know what I'm sayin. Man, ifs sweet in Minnesota, thas alii hear in Chicago. I move my BO cousin up here, he dead now though, cuz I caught this case .. .I'1I tell you bout that.. .. but ah ... this state. Man, ifs so sweet up here, ya know what I'm sayin, thas what they'd be sayin an I'd be seein people in the Mall, like ya know like Moe's in the Mall that had they hat broke off. An you can tell Projecta Chicago nigger, you can tell .. ..Iike the dude thajus walk past here with the long hair, look like he from Chicago. You can tell a Chicago nigger, so I be ... 1walk past, I be what you is Joe ... cuz he had his hat broke off to the left, ya know. He be like I'm A Moe or I'm a Vice Lord. I shake up wid em (unclear) I might see that man at a party or somethin, start a friendship, ya know what I'm sayin, we both Moe's from Chicago. I know like 8 Moe's from Chicago. There was this one Moe that I seen in Las Vegas, cuz I jus came back from th Las Vegas on June 16 , I seen a Moe that I knew in Las Vegas. I'mSociety like man, ya know what I'm sayin, that be trippin me, I be seein Moe's everywhere. IfsResearch like, ya know, GO's use ta be, ya know, they use ta be runnin there, but ya know say Black Stones jus, ya know, they startin ta come up. I don't know how Hoover got nationwide like that, but (unclear) people, they comin. KC: 00 you have rank? JB: Who me? I ain't never wanted no rank.Gang Rank gets you killed. Ya know what I'm sayin, cuz where I'm from ya know, they say ... they say if you want respect, when people come at you they lookin for the one that calls for the deck, so whoever callin for Historicalthe deck thas who they lookin for. Ya know so if they kill you, you outa there. So, I ain't never wanted no rank. They ... theytol me they gimme Chief a Security, but I ain't.. .. an that was likeYouth when I was 12, so I know if I Chief a Security then an I'm 18 now, man I'd be, ya know what I'm sayin, I could be Chief. Ya know what I'm sayin, but I ain't tryin ta be that, man. Cuz if you da man, somebody always tryin ta take you down ta show dat dey the man. So, I ain't never wanted no rank. 22.49 KC: So you came here, youMinnesota already knew ... you had like names and phone numbers of other MOE's? JB: No, I jus ... I, I meet em. Ya know ifs not hard ta find what chu lookin for, ya know what I'm sayin. KC: InMinnesota Burnsville? JB: No, see ..... yeah, actually yeah. Come tathink about it, when I cameta Burnsville, Burnsville ... butwhen I moved ta Burnsville, I didn't move like ta Burnsville into a house, I moved inta Tassler Manor, the projects, everybody in there was on welfare, ya know what I'm sayin. An we lived there with my stepmama, me an my mama did. An ya know it was like, it was Moe's in there, it was Vice Lords from K-town, it was GO's, it was everybody. Everybody got along, ya know what I'm sayin. An then GO's started gettin, they started gettin a little, a little strong an they tried ta pull it like they tough or somethin. So, we like .... man, ya know what I'm sayin, I see what we gotta do. So the Moe's jus closed Tassler Manor down,jus ya know send the deck up. Everybody, ya know, the GO's ~was like 8 a dem an like

4 of us. An then, ya know what I'm sayin, the Moe's start comin an there was like 6 a clem, 6 a us ... an still like 15 a dem, they started grown, but we started growin. An then we draw, ya know what I'm sayin, we draw moderation, they draw off numbers. Ya know what I'm sayin, ifthere's one a me an 8 a ya all, I'm still gonna bust, ya know what I'm sayin. But, if ifs 8 of ya a II, if ifs 1 a ya all an 1 a me, ya all scared ta come ta me, ya know what I'm sayin? But, it gotta be like 10 of ya all for ya all ta hard, ifd be one a me an I'm (unclear) ya know I'm gonna stand strong. KC: JB, how did you close down this Manor, how did you close down this project? 24.3-- JB: We jus pull rank, we wadn't like close it down or nuttin. We jus, we jus showed em, ya all gonna push, we gonna push. Either ya all respect us or we gonna go at it every day an if you wanna live like this, then we gonna live like this. An don't nobody wanna live like this, cuz you niggers ain't from Chicago, you niggers from .... ya know what I'm sayin. You ... man, you niggers ain'tfromProject Chicago, you all don't know how it is. Ya know they wanted .... everybody wanna be tough. It ain't all about that, when you realize that ifs about livin, ya know what I'm sayin, den you'll be all good. It ain't about gang bangin. Oh we run this, GD's run this ... ok, now when I shoot your two fingers off, then what chu gonna do? Ya know what I'm sayin. So, it wadn't.. .. we try ta make dem realize that, ya know, ifs all about, ya know what I'm sayin, jus gettin along. You make your money, I make my money. You mess wid my money you dead, somethin got a happen to you. You hold yoursSociety down, let me hold mine down, don't try ta take mine, ya know what I'm sayin. AnResearch thas what they gotta learn. Thas what a lot a people gotta learn. KC: When you were running in this apartment complex, what was the ethnic background of everybody else you were running with? All the other Moe's? 25.44 Gang JB: It was a, An-Dog was Black, it was this ... this, he was like Black an Vietnamese, I guess, an his name was Jauntea, but he was married, he wadn'tHistorical married but he was, he stayed with this Black girl. Her name was Tashawna or somethin. But, her brother was a GD an his name was Derek West, I remember tha stuff, but heYouth was cool people though. KC: When was this? JB: This was in '95. An ah .... he was cool people though. Then there was this older Moe, his name was Lucky, he was from ah ... his name was Ty, but we called him Lucky, he was from Gary, though. An there was this other, I'm tryin ta think, it was another Moe .. .! say (unclear name). (Unclear name) brother had got outaMinnesota jail an came for awhile, but he got locked back up. It was me, him an my stepbrother, Lamont, but he was ah .... ya know he was a coward, but he use ta always try ta acttough aroundMinnesota me, ya know what I'm sayin. An ah ... who ah ... thas it, I think there were like four...four of us that use ta hang around an there was like some that use tajus come an kick it, ya know what I'm sayin. They come from different, ya know what I'm sayin, come from different, it was (unclear name) is a ... Tam, Tam thas over there, thas his boy. He Folks, but he use ta ride wid us, cuz we was so close, cuz ever since .... cuz him an my other stepbrother were like best friends, an we was close. An ah ... this stud named James, he use ta come an kick it, he was a MC though, but we all under the 5, so we was awright, ya know what I'm sayin .. An then there was .... who else ... James there was another James, his brother Jamaine over there right now. Thas my Moe ta die .... man, thas my Moe ta death, man, that man ride ta the death, till see my hearse I ride for that guy.

KC: So one of you close homies is in here? JB: One of his little brothers is in here. 27.44 KC: One of his little brothers is in here. So, he's a Moe? JB: Naw, he a Vice Lord. But we all under the 5. Ifs like you ain't gotta be a Moe, ya know what I'm sayin, for us ta ride wich ya. As long as you under the 5. See thas somethin, see like GO's only ride wid GO's, ya know what I'm sayin. No matter if you a BO, a BG, or ... or a Soul, whatever you is, you ain't a GO dey don't like you. Man, Moe, we ride wid Vice Lord's, Folks (unclear), we all under the 5, so we gonna ride. JC: So you'll ride with Mickey Cobra, Latin Kings .... JB: If you respect love, truth, peace, freedom an justice than I ride wich you, ya know what I'm sayin. JC: So, have you kind of put your own organization together here in Burnsville?Project JB: I gotta, man .... the Vice Lords asked me ta run the Vice Lords an I told them, no. Ya know what I'm sayin, CUZ, I'm not a Vice Lord an I'm not gonna ..... even though, ifs like they're not wannabe's, they jus uneducated about gang bangin, ya know what I'm sayin. An they figger, they figger I know somethin they don't, an ya know what I'm sayin, I got such a quick tongue that I make em thing I know somethin, I know somethin that they don't, ya know what I'm sayin. But, ah .. .1 jus, ya know what I'm sayin ... ain't no ahh ... ain't no end ta this, I ain't never gonna run Societynobody in my (unclear), so nobody can kill me an say we done kilt ya all leader. I tol emResearch I'd give em advice on what ta do an what not ta do, an if ya .... .if ya all need it, ya know what I'm sayin, if ya all need somebody ta bang wich ya all, I'll bang wich ya all, but when the pistols come, I (unclear) later, cuz I got a life ta live. KC: So you're running with Vice Lords, then? 29.20 Gang JB: If ah ... Vice Lords need my help, I told cha, if you under the 5, we ride, ya know what I'm sayin. I'm a Stone, my stepbrother a stone, ya know whatHistorical I'm sayin. James, he wanted ta be a Stone, but I ain't got no authority ta make nobody a Stone. My cousin a Folk, he do, but he always cuttin hair at Moeller's, so he ain't never got no time.Youth An, so they all Vice Lords, but we don't trip on that, cuz they under the 5, ya know what I'm sayin? A brother's a brother. If he a Vice Lord; a Moe; a MC; a brother's a brother, an we address each other as brother, not, ya know what I'm sayin, not Folks. Like them brigs do, we address each other as brother no matter what chu is. KC: Whafs the scariest experience you've ever had? JB: This, right here. Minnesota KC: Oooh, what happened? You just showed my your knee. Looks like a major scar. 30.24 Minnesota JB: We was ahhh, we was ah ... cuz after we stayed at, after we stayed on the South side, I... we had a fire in our house an I moved with my grandmama in K-town an I always (unclear) K-town ta tell ya the truth, cuz this is tougher, ifs .... ya know what I'm sayin. But, I was raised in K-town, everybody in K-town know me, ya know what I'm sayin. K-town is where ifs at. But, we was on the South side, an we was on a Wild Hunters where the GO's jus run everything. GO's run everything in the Wild Hunters, thas where (unclear) an Hoover. Hoover, man, Hoover got a lock in the Wild Hunters. The Wild Hunters is GO's for days an they ah ... they was, man they be out there jus trippin an there was this project called the Pace Setter, they called it the Pace Setter cuz it was like a whole lot a welfare people an the set the

pace for them ta get on their own, ya know what I'm sayin. An them GO's use ta come from Pace Setter all the time. An be like man, we gonna shut yo spot down, cuz we use ta sell rocks off of um .... 131st an Tracy. It was ah ...... ifs in Chicago anyway. But, we had like, Tracy was like a whole block seven an they would come down, come down from Pace Setter an be like we gonna shut ya all block down. We be like Nigger you ain't shuttin nuttin down. An one time they came through wid a shotgun, they was busin. An me I was, I was always tryin ta be the tough guy back then, cuz I was the shorty. KC: When was that? JB: That was in like '93. I was like 13, sornethin like that. I had a jus, no I had jus .... 1think I had jus got out a 7th grade or one a them. Yeah, I think I hadjus gotouta 7th grade. An man we was into it with them niggers, I use ta fight them niggers at school. I use ta ...ifs like everywhere I go, I seen the same niggers that I jus got through fightin. I had ta get up with these niggers everyday. An man they ah .. cuz we was all shorties, an then the big fellas .... 1 use ta talk shit to the big guys.Project Like, man, I'll fuck you all, I'll take ya all, you all older, ya all ain't shit. So I was out there where all the rest a the Moe's an the GO's came through. The GO's from Pace Setter, they had they own set. They use ta call they self a Ghost Town, I think. An they came through with a gauge an just got ta .... got ta lettin it ride ..... an I got ta lettin a .380 ride back at em. An when the, I guess, the pellets hit me in my knee, an it didn't hurt, it really didn't hurt. I didn't even realize I was hit, ya know what I'm sayin. Till ran around the block an I was like huffin an puffin, an these niggers ran around the block behindSociety me an I didn't they was runnin behind me. They ran around the block behind me, gotResearch ta where I was, an kept runnin. I'm like why am I gettin, why is my leg hurtin like this? So, I ran up into a abandoned building an went to the 2nd floor an I was hidin. An they ... ya know them niggers weren't no killers, they weren't gonna keep lookin fer me. So, I looked at my knee like man, ow, ow, man I was so damn scared. I ran, man, I ran home. My mama's like - what happened to you?Gang what happened to you? I was like, man, mama I don't know they were shootin an this an that, this an that, so we went to the hospital. An the doctor said that the pellet jus, it was a pellet. .. J think there's one Historicalstill in there, I ain't trippin though ... it don't make me none. But, ever since then it was (unclear) My mama was like - we gotta move, we gotta move. But then she was like, was they shootinYouth at you or was they shootin at somebody else. An I was like, they weren't shootin at me mama, like they weren't shootin at me. Ya know what I'm sayin, she knew what was up though, ya know. So I think my mama, ya know what I'm sayin, she waited til she got comfortable, ya know what I'm sayin, ta move. But, from then on, I was into it with them niggers. I was tryin ta kill every last one of em. I hated ... 1 hate GO's, to this day. To this day I do not, if I run across a cool GO, I ain't gonna discriminate againstMinnesota em cuz he a GO, but I jus do not like GO's KC: Now I know you've got a GO in your pod, how do you deal with that. 34.17 Minnesota JB: Who Mike, Mike cool people. Cuz Mike is not a GO, Mike is Mikey. Ya know what I'm sayin. Mikey, if you, if you claim that you a man before you anything, than I'm gonna respect you, ya know what I'm sayin, but if you a nigger, I'm Folks, man well you gonna get banged. Plain an Simple, now you wanna bang, now if you bang me then so be it, then I'm gonna walk away. But, if I bang you then you gonna go get a pistol. Ya know what I'm sayin. An thas the kinda coward niggers, GO is. Ya know ifs some ofthas cool though, I'm not even gonna lie. There's some GO's that I like an I respect cuz they all about they money. But, if you about gang bangin, then you ... you outa die, cuz then this world would be better, ya know what I'm sayin.

KC: Are you always strapped? JB: I ain't never ... 1ain't never within, I say, not within 15 minutes of a pistol. But I ain't never strapped, never, ever, ever. I ain't never got no gun on me. KC: How do you do that? 15 minutes? JB: Cuz, ifs like, see in Chicago we use ta have gang ways. Ya know what a gang way is? Ifs a... Chicago is like, the buildins are built, but they always leave a little gap between the two buildins an you can run through the gang way, we use ta take bricks off the wall an put pistols in there an code it, an put the brink back in, so if you get into it with a GO on my road you can run a kila, ya know ifs a alley, you know there's a pistol in that gang way. There might be a pistol under the abandoned buildin porch on Jackson, it might be .... ya know it jus all...man I use ta run on the block all the time. Moe, they chasin me, Moe they chasin me. They like this nigger done got into some more shit, cuz I use ta go inta, man, I use ta mess wid they girls, I use ta go in they block, tell em nigger, fuck you.Project An I use ta, man I'm tellin you, I use tajus give itto em niggers cuz I had to .... an they .... they ... ya know what I'm sayin. They act like, ya know what I'm sayin, they was too tough, so thas ride there ... gettha nigger, I put my head down an .... get ta my block ... they know they better not come on my block cuz we gonna air you out, plain an simple. KC: What about here, now you're in Minnesota. Are you still 15 minutes from your strap? 36.26 Society JB: See, now ifs like either at my house Tawah house, Researchmy stepmama house, my cousin house, James house. Ya know what I'm sayin, I ain't never, like I got a cell right, if I be in my car an I get it like .. .1 was jus into it with the GO's out here an they caught me in school an I had a pistol in school, but I couldn't up the pistol cuz I got kicked outa school an I need ta go to that school so I can grab it. KC: What school you been going to? Gang JB: ALC. KC: An I needed ta go to that school an I could (unclear)Historical so I called Tawah, Tawah was downstairs, these niggers thought they were slick, came to the school. James was in the classroom wid me, an he .... ya know sometimes I don't knowYouth what be wrong wid the dude, but he jus be gettin scared. He was like - man, they's 8 of em an they be comin up the stairs. An I'm scared, but I 'm tryin ta hide iLlike man, I dunno .... ya know what I'm sayin ...jus chill, jus chill. I'm thinkin wha should I do? wha should I do? So I called Tawah downstairs, I said Tawah, I'm comin out the back a the door, if anyone of these niggers come up behind me, bus on em. Tawah like (unclear) ok, he gonna end up in the penitentiary some day. But, Tawah, manMinnesota I don't care, man if I ride for you, you ride for me .. .ifs only fair ... whatever...fuck dem niggers I don't care. So, ah ... we runnin ... they came runnin out the buildin, but Tawha didn't bus onMinnesota em, but he stole on one of em ... an they like, man. An ever since then I been into it wid the GO's out here. But they all got locked up. Ya know, I got locked up for the pistol I had. Ifs like the police was seein that we was inta it, but they was tryin ta get us all, ya know what I'm sayin. They got me, they goLthey got all the GO's that I was into it wid. There's only one that they didn't get an he goin to the army or to the navy or one adem. KC: Now, they came into the school, right? JB: Yeah. KC: And they stabbed you? Oidn'tthey come into the school and assault somebody, I think I know abouLI mean it was in the news.

38.22 JB: It was in the news. They came ta school an I picked up a chair, like these chairs right here. I picked up a chair an threw it at one of em. An when he tried ta get out the way, I wanted ta run out the door, but I didn't know it was like, ya know what I'm sayin. He had tol me it was like 8 of em, but it was like .. ..Iike 11 of em, an they was all ya know huddled up. An the teachers came an they're like - get out, get out, an they pushed the teacher to the side.. An thas when I knew they was about business, I thought they was jus comin in an woof. An they came in there an pushed the teacher to the side an she feel on the ground, so I helped her up an then ya know I'm sayin ... whatchu all niggers gonnajump me in school. Ya all niggers an hoes. I'm still woofin like I'm tough. Like ya all niggers ain't gonna do nuttin ta me, ya all niggers an hoes. An then I started sayin ... ya all niggers, you ain't no killers, ya all niggers an hoes .... an then thas when they rushed me. An when they rushed me, I ran through him, I got hit like four times. An then I upped an I ran out the exit door an Tawah wasProject down there, an the first one that came through the door Tawah stole. KC: Tawah what? JB: He hit em, stole on em, an then we jumped in a ride an we was up. An from then on, I was into it with the GO's out here. KC: Now the kids that all came into the school were all White, right? 39.27 Society JB: No, it was ah ... one stud .. .1 ain't gonna say his name,Research but he ah ... he was like 22 from Virginia. He was a gangster, then da stud thas goin ta the army, he graduated from (unclear) he was a gangster, he Black, too. An one, the one that jus kill me, jus a phony .... phony as they come, he was ah .. .1 think he was 18 or 19. I had, the previous day, I had stuck a pistol in this stud's mouth. He talk about some .... no, I'm sorry, it was the night afterGang that happened. Stuck a pistol in his mouth, he gonna talk about somethin .... .it wasn't me .. .it was the other two. He blamed it all on the other two studs. But then when they got.. .. when they got together he wasHistorical like .. .1 didn't say dat .... 1 didn't say dat. I'm like .... man, you all some hoes. I don't even wanna mess wich you all like this. Ya know how you gonna war wid some people who ain't gonnaYouth go ta war wich you, ya know what I mean. You jus gonna be .. ..Ifs like, it, it jus messed me up, cuz like they was talkin crazy an we went ta Chancelor, cuz they live in Chancelor Manor, now. An thas what, thas what it all started over, talkin about we think we run Chancelor Manor. I told em, nigger we started Chancelor Manor everythin that went on in Chancelor Manor is becuz a us. Ya know what I'm sayin, jus cuz we done moved outa, moved onta better ... bigger an better stuff ,an yaMinnesota all still stuck in this little ghetto ya all think ya all tough. An he was talkin crazy, we kicked in his door. He came at me in school, I put a pistol in his mouth. They ah ...jumped on one aMinnesota my boys, we shot at these studs, ya know, so all the ... comparison ta what they was doin an what we was doin was different, ya know what I'm sayin. So, I jus say it ain't no use in doin nuttin to these niggers, they ain't ... they ain't gonna understand. They talk crazy an we kick in your door, you chase me in school an I put a pistol in your mouth, ya know what I'm sayin. I mean you hit somebody an we shoot at chu. I mean, when is ya all gonna start showin us that chu all about it. So, I jus was like man, ifs another case that I can'LI hate GO's. KC: JB, I hear that you want all out war, to the point of maybe somebody gettin killed? 41.34 JB: Thas jus how it is. Thas what they gonna force ya ta .... thas what they was gonna force itta be, ya know

what I'm sayin? KC: Wait a minute .... you're describing ... now you're saying; they're gonna force it to be. But, you're describing you're being the nasty warriors and they're not living up to it. So you don't respect them because they don't live up to it, then how can they be forcing you to put guns in people's mouths. JB: If they stop provokin it, if they jus go mind they business an leave us the hell alone, then we wouldn't have nuttin ta say to em. But, they keep comin wid this petty stuff. Man, petty stuff ... petty stuff get ...... ya, make you act more insensible den ... .if you hit me on my mouth, I would, I would respect you more than you sit there an call me a punk an a hoe an a bitch all over the phone an tell girls that I got disease, ya know what I'm sayin. I mean, jus ...jus stuff that jus get on you nerves to the point that you well you jus wanna see em an jus take his head off. KC: JB, you love to be at war, you love all this goin on, right? JB: Sometimes, if it's .. .if ifs sufficient then I'm on top. Ifs like in Chicago I didn'tProject like it, cuz Chicago is like, dem niggers if you come at dem, they come at chu. Ya know what I'm sayin, they ... we come at chu wid a .380, they come at chu wid two techs. Man, I done seen GO's shootthe whole block up. 1. .. I'm a right handed guy, I was standin on the block on day an it didn't had nutthin ta do wid us. The GO's had gotten inta it wid the Souls, I was on the West side, an man, it was me an my little cousin Makeen, my cousins little brother. Man, we was on, standin on the corner by the stop sign. I heard ... ti, ti, ting, ting ... llooked at the stop sign there was like 8 holes in the stop sign.Society I took off, took off. Makeen was behind me, I hada wait on him ta get across the street,Research almos got hit my this Cadillac, had a stud hangin off the front a the ... off the sunroof a the Cadillac, it was a guy on foot, I swear the man was runnin 35 miles an hour. I swear ta god, he shootin an ouzi behind em. Thas when I realize, man, I gotta get outta Chicago. I mean, my cousin, ya know, ifs a every day thing for them. Ya know they standin there jus lookin atthis, I'm terrified, ya know whatGang I'm sayin, cuz I'm like man, ya know what I'm sayin .... 1don't know if these niggers shootin at me, who they shootin at. Man, I'm lookin like, man, Chicago ain't a place ta raise nobody. An then the police, theyHistorical shoot up the police ... they shoot at anybody. Anybody who say somethin wrong or do somethin wrong gettin shot at. Guns is like water in Chicago. KC: JB, why are you bringingYouth the war here? Why are you stirring the pot for the war here? JB: I know ifs not....see, ifs not like I'm startin nothin, but ..... KC: Oh, bull shit... ..it is like, you're stirring ..... come on you know you're lovin it. JB: No, actually I'm not. Actually, I don't know why niggers jus can't, ya know what I'm sayin .... ifyou tough, you tough. So what, leave it alone, be tough, leave me alone. You have your girls, I have my girls. You have your dope, I haveMinnesota my dope. You have your weed, I have my weed. I got my pistols, you got your pistols. You got your ride, I got my ride. Leave me alone, ya know what I'm sayin. But, instead you wanna,Minnesota you wanna steal somethin off my ride, or you wanna call my girl by her name, ya know what I'm sayin, jus simple stuff. An ifs like, they jus like ... people know that I'm bout it, ya know what I'm sayin. People know that I'm gonna be bout it, it I die. An they know if they a friend ta me, then they got a friend for life, ya know what I'm sayin. But, they know ifthey a enemy ta me, then I'm a ride, an they be like -well, ya know what I'm sayin, you ain't tough. Thas they favorite word, the GO's favorite word you ain't tough. Nigger show me I'm not tough. An thas, thas my favorite word, show me I ain't tough, an then it start on from there. Ya know ifs like we get along for like, for like two weeks. An the only reason we get along is cuz they ... they either gotta come through me ta get they, cuz they want some bud or somethin, they gotta come through me cuz I got the hook-up. An I tell em, man, look I wan chu

ta get cher money, ya know what I'm sayin, jus like I'm gonna get my money. Cuz you on the bottom, but as soon as these niggers get somthin or get on top, then they get ta talkin crazy again. Ya know what I'm sayin, an I ain't gonna let nobody disrespect me like dat. KC: Ok. You say you've got your straps. Whafs your favorite strap? JB: I don't have no favorite strap. Anything that shoot back. KC: Where do you get hooked up for a strap here? JB: It was a, it was this girl I knew, Patsy. She had a, her uncle, I guess was in the Bogus Boys or somethin. An they use ta send this one girl ta buy guns all the time. An the dude use ta sell me, he use ta sell me a .38 or a .25 for like, it depend on what he want, cuz he was a hype, the dude was .... man, if he wanted .. .1 remember I gave Guy, .... when I first came from Chicago I gave Guy a quarter ki, he gave me a shotgun, itwas a sawed off shotgun, a .45 colt officer special an I think I had like two, three ning dings. Project KC: Two, three what? JB: Oh, knives, may fault. No, it was two. It was two cuz the third knife my brother had, got it from somebody. But all them pistols gone. All them pistols gone. KC: Where are they? JB: I gotta, I gave one ta the guys, he a... he a GD, he got into it (unclear) he had got into it wid these Bloods an came ta my girl house askin for the sawed off, den he got caughtSociety wid it. The .45, I'm in here for the .45. An, the ning dings my brother lost dem, shootinResearch at people like he sick. My stepbrother, he jus got outa Duluth, cuz thas what... I say he be on that crazy stuff. Dude be on that oh ... stuntman stuff, like he could jus do anything an not get in trouble. KC: How long was he in Duluth? JB: For 18 months. Gang 49.01 KC: I interviewed some kids up there, what was Historicalhis name? JB: Darias, Darias Tucker. KC: Short guy? Youth JB: Yeah. KC: Yeah. JB: Is he real black.? KC: Urn huh. JB: Yeah. Minnesota KC: Thafs your stepbrother? JB: Yeah.Minnesota Dude, he wild ain't he. KC: Yeah. JB: Tol ya he wild to the ..... he real wild. KC: I didn't get to interview him, because he started getting crazy, so they wouldn't let me interview him. Because we were talking and he was getting wild and it wasn't helping his treatment. So, is he back bangin? JB: He ah .. when he hit the street, I took em wid me ta ... what did I take em wid me ta do? .... Ah, I jus took em ta kick it, an man this nigger, go ta my girl house, cuz my girl's gorgeous - she is fine. Took em ta my girls house, ( unclear) all in my girls face. I'm like dude, chill out. We get pulled over by the police,

he talkin crazy to police, so I dropped em off. I dropped off, I don't.. .. ya know you give people a chance, I try ta talk to em, it ain't.. .. it ain't doin no good, but I think ifs cuz he seen me doin shit an he kinda be like - who is you ta tell me not ta do somethin an you do the same thing? So I think, ya know what I'm sayin, when I straighten up, then I'll try ta get him ta straighten up. If he ain't listen, I'm not gonna let him condemn my life, ya know what I mean. KC: Tell me about females in the organization? 50.25 JB: Ah ... ain't not females. Females can't be in the organiz .... .females can't organize nuttin ta me, cuz they talk too much, ya know what I'm sayin. KC: So, no females in your organization in Chicago? JB: Oh in Chicago, yeah, ifs plenty .. .ifs plenty GO girls an cuz I use ta get into it wid the GO's all the time for messin wid they girls. Cuz they is ... like they had ... every girl was a GO.Project An I be hittin all they girls. KC: What about Peace Stones? Peace Stones don't have girls in their organization? JB: Man, it is .... rarely you see a girl bein a Stone. There was a few in Motown, thas where the Moe's at, th th I mean ifs like, ifs like from 50 , from 5f;t an Garfield ta like 55 an Laughlin. Thas like from Burnsville Center ta like Rosemont. All that Black Stones, all that. I use ta go down there an jus kick it, ya know we use ta jus kick it. An there was a few sisters down there, ya know what I'm sayin. I seen like 100 Black Stone sisters in my life, but I seen like 50,000 GO girls. There'sSociety a lot a GO girls. KC: So now you're here, you've got your little organizationResearch going. You won't let any girls in your organization? 51.44 JB: I don't recruit people inta, inta bein .... see Miss .. Miss Kate, ifs like, ifs like now, ifs like for me, ifs over wid. Ya know what I'm sayin? All dat, allGang dat, ya know what I'm sayin, all dat gang bangin an stuff, dem niggers, I think the police, ya know what I'm sayin, I don't hate the police, but I thank the police cuz they took away my problem. Ya know what I'mHistorical sayin, they locked all the GO's up, therefore I ain't got nobody talkin crazy, nobody ta box wid, ya know what I'm sayin. Now I can focus, ya know what I'm sayin, on other things. I Youthain't gotta worry about goin ta school. Cuz these, ifs like these niggers out here ain't gonna shoot at chu. These niggers out here ain't gonna jump on you, they cowards, ya know what I mean. But chu go ta Chicago, them niggers will (unclear) in broad daylight, they jus blow you brains out in broad daylight. Put they gun in they belt an walk down the street like da .. da .. dLda .. da. But niggers out here is cowards, ya know what I'm sayin, they woof, woof, woof, woof. Runnin der mouth. Minnesota KC: So you don't let any females in your organization, but you hang out with females? JB: Ah,Minnesota foe sure. KC: So, how do the females get treated in your organization? 53.0--- JB: Well, I would ... wid utmost respect. Thas like ... thas like a rule of any .... 1don't knew where GO's got their rules from, but thas a rule of any Moe, you treat old folks an you treat women wid respect. Ya know what I'm sayin. An if you get into it wid somebody you don't bus if you see kids, if you see like little kids, you don't shoot. Forget about it, ya know, thas a mental cut-off, if you see kids jus be like man, ya know, nigger you lucky, ya know what I'm sayin, you lucky an jus go about you business. Thas been, thas been my philosophy since day one.

KC: What I hear from a lot of the guys and from a lot of the females is that females get passed around a lot. You have a girl, somebody else wants her, she has to go perform for somebody else. JB: Thas bull shit. I wish I would give somebody my girl, ya know what I mean. I understand, yeah, cuz thas GO's. Thas GO's they dirty, I told ya, GO's dirty as hell, the Folks be, Folks be passin around all they women, sometimes they even pass em ta different gangs, ya know what I mean. But, nO ... my woman ... KC: Now, you see that in Chicago and in Minnesota? JB: Yeah Chicago .. .in Minnesota girls are jus promiscuous period, ya know what I mean. But, Chicago girls is jus ... well Chicago an Minnesota girls promiscuous, cuz in Chicago girl ... every girl have a baby befoe they 16. An up here ifs like girls jus bone like crazy an don't have kids, some of em have kids, ya know what I'm sayin, but I think ifs more, you see it more in the GO's the passin around girls an the, an the Folks .. Folks want chu ta do this for em, you gotta hook em up if you wannaProject be a gangster, ya know thas, thas some silly stuff. KC: Yeah, but I hear it from Crips, I hear it from Bloods, I hear it from Vice Lords. Ya know, they're beatin their girls if the girls don't perform sex when they want it, they'll beat them. I've heard it from all of them. 54.59 JB: They bogus, they bogus as hell. Naw, I wish somebody will put their hands on my woman, but tha thas like, sometimes ... 1see that wid the niggers they jus wanna be accepted,Society ya know what I mean. Like stud, they don't want no conflict. If they, if they be likeResearch .. awright, dude like man, your girl look good. Like, man you want her? An they hear by givin him his woman he get respect, ya know what I mean. Like now, oh the Folks cool, Folks let me hit his girl. Folks this, Folks that, so as soon as he give into wid somebody he come back like, Folks I need your help, Folks I need your help. An he go back thinkin ah this nigger like gave me his girl, he myGang friend, ya know what I'm sayin. An it don't work like dat wid me. You ain't gotta gimme nuttin, jus show me you bout it. Ya know what I mean, you ain't gotta get, man, I don't know what kind a gang, what kindHistorical a gang, ya know what I'm sayin, give .... pass girls. KC: JB, you say that you don't wanna do it anymore because you want to get out of school. What do you need to not do it? What doYouth you need to not bang anymore? What do you need to not stay affiliated? JB: Ifs .... ifs a life thing, you, ifs Iike .. .1 be tryin ta, when I put on my hat, I try not ta break it off ta the left, ya know what I'm sayin. I try ta put on my hat straight ah .. straight back an I can't do it, I can't do it. I find myself sometime durin the day knockin my hat accidently to the left or I see somebody they be like - (unclear), I'm like dang I gotta stop that, ya know what I'm sayin. Somebody be like hey, I'm leavin .... I'm like aw well..Minnesota ... ahh stop, ya know what I'm sayin. Or, I see my cousin, I shake up wid em an shit, or I see a GO nigger, I'm like look at that brick ass nigger, jus tryin ta start stuff wid people, sometimes,Minnesota ya know what I'm sayin. An my mama told me that, ya know, you reachin for somethin thas not in Minnesota. But, it is in Minnesota, it's not as, ya know, as wild west like Chicago. But, ifs I give it time, ifs gonna be. Ya know what I mean. KC: And you're going to be in the middle of that mix? 57.0- JB: Man, I'm gonna be in college somewhere doin what I gotta do. Ya know I might switch seats wich you, ya know what I'm sayin. But, I can't a.. .1 can't be part a that no more, cuz I gottta live. Death, I didn't understand life or death, ta the full extent of life an death till got locked up on this case right here for havin that .45. An my cousin, Sean, I had brought him outta, brought him outta Chicago, he stayed on

the, on the North side an this .... no, he stayed on the South side, but it was goin North from the South where I lived at. An he stayed on 80th an Cole Street, he stayed closer to the city an he was into it wid my own people, wid the Black Stones, an he was a Black Disciple. An he got into it wid the Stones all the time, an I even came out there an got, an boxed one a my own Stones for my cousin, ya know what I'm sayin, cuz we had got inta ittogether. An he was like, it was this Moe named Smiley. He was about six feet, real skinny kid. Always kept a pistol on em, I'm boxin em, his mag fell outa his belt. He picked up his gun an put it, ya know what I'm sayin, give it ta one a his Moe's an finished boxin. An he like, Moe I know this is somethin ya had ta do, so an so. Me an Smiley became friends but he was like, man, tell your little cousin ta chill out. My cousin name was Sean, we use ta call em snatcher cuz he was .... the dude was crazy. Call em body snatcher, like snatcher come here .... an ya know he was real wild. Every day he use ta ... man, he jus do somethin ta aggravate the Stones, ya know, shoot at em. Or, ya know, smack one a they girls an run, ya know what I'm sayin, jus somethin.Project An my uncle Howie seen my cousin, Sean, come through the gang way one day wid a shot gun. An his mama was on the porch, she fainted, the leader a the block club was on, she was on her porch. An she tol ... my uncle called my mama an I sent the money for my cousin ta come up here. He came up here, ya know what I'm sayin, we did a little husHin an stuff, ya know make a long story short he was wid me when I got into it wid a GO, thas why I was so easily, ya know to at them niggers, cuz I had my family ya know what I'm sayin, an we gonna ride. But, I got locked up an shit an he didn'tSociety have nowhere ta stay an he had ta go back ta Chicago. I was plannin on him ta comeResearch back up here either in December or January, ya know what I'm sayin, when he got outa school an I got outa school, ya know. We was gonna get a apartment together an kick it. He got killed on April 17th by the same Stones that he was always into it wid, they shot em in the ... when they shot.. .. he shot at em an he threw his hand up an the bullet went through here an it tore his heart out his Gangchest an he was dead afore he hit the ground. An they tol me when I gotoutajail an I was jus, man .... ya know what I'm sayin, thatshitfucked me up. Ya know, iLl never understood life or death like that, but nowHistorical I understand it, ya know what I'm sayin an I gotta live. Gang bangin ain't worth it, ain't none a that shit worth it, ya know what I'm sayin. You never know how bad it is, til you take a stepYouth outa your life an look at it. Ya know what I mean, ya know what I'm sayin? Man, ifs jus fucked up. KC: But, you love it. You absolutely love it. Can you really give it up. JB: Man, I use ta love it. Ya know what I'm sayin .... they took so much away from me, it took ..... yeah, ifs .. .it give you charge ta know that you in control, ya know, ta know that you down wid it. Ya know, I still, ya know I still love beinMinnesota a Moe. I'm gonna always loved bein a Moe, but I hate ta see brothers die every day over this shit. Ya know what I'm sayin, I'm not gonna kill, like I tol chu. 1.. .1'11 knock a nigger out, I'llMinnesota beat a nigger ass til he'll jus be bleedin, but I will not, I'm not gonna kill nobody unless ifs, ya know what I'm sayin, less you .... less you threaten my life first. If I feel threatened then you gotta go, ya know what I'm sayin? KC: What do you get out of the gang, mosHy? Whafs the biggest thing you get out of it, or what are some of the things you get out of being affiliated? JB: If, I....ifs not what I get out of it, I know what other people get out of it...... KC: I want to know what you get out of it? JB: What I get out of it? When I first joined ya mean? Like what did I.. .was Ilookin for? KC: Yeah, and now what do you get out of it?

JB: Ifs like, well back den .. ..it was, man, it was my people, ya know what I'm sayin. We use ta kick it everyday, it was jus fun. Ya know tha was when I first joined, then when I got older it was somebody ta, ya know, it was a threat. Somebody seen me, they knew it was me an the Moe's. It was never me by myself, it jus me an the Moe's. Even if I was by myself - Ah, he a Moe, you better leave em alone, dem Moe's will beat cher ass, ya know what I'm sayin. An ifs like, ya know, you look for a family. Ya know, jus some ... ya know, they you family. Ya know my mama use ta be husUin, workin all the time. I didn't mind it, I knew my mama loved me, ya know, did what she can for me, but I got other family. 102.11 KC: But, what do you get out of it now? JB: Man, jail time god dammit. Stigmatation, police see you .... they look on your file, ifs on the file that I'm a Black Stone. I had ta go to a psychiatrist, ya know, for this case ta see if I needed ta be certified. An he said ah ..I heard that you one a the prominent members in the Black StoneProject Nation. An I'm like ... I'm lookin at this dude, like how do yo know this? I mean, even though your information is wrong, ya know what I'm sayin, I threw that at em. .. .like even though your information is wrong, how did you know dat? Ya know you get a 10Lya know ifs positive at first an ifs fun, but you don't get nuttin but negativity from it, ya know, in the long run. In the long run, in the real long run, ya know what I'm sayin, I'm not sayin, ya know .... KC: What did they give you on this case? Society 103.04 Research JB: They gave me a.... 1pleaded guilty ta simple robbery. Cuz, if I'd a plead guilty ta havin a gun, then they would a, ya know what I'm sayin, they'd a either. .. one or the other, ya know what I'm sayin, if you plead guilty ta this, we'll throw this out. If you plead guilty ta this we'll throw this out. An ta plead guilty to the gun, I'd a been in here for six months, Gangso I did simple robbery. An then my mom, ya know what I'm sayin, my mom she was always there, she cared an stuff. An that I'm not a bad kid, ya know what I mean. I know how ta stay outa trouble, whenHistorical I need ta stay outa trouble, so ya know, I got (unclear) 30 days. KC: What do you need ta get Youthout? JB: Get outa what? KC: Get out of hangin with the organization? Can you survive without dealin? JB: Thas a.... 1never tried ... I'm ... man, I don't even know, I never tried. I get back ta ya .... KC: Do you think you'll ever try? JB: Yeah, I honesUy thinkMinnesota I got enough, ya know what I'm sayin, I got enough a this jail time stuff. Take away my freedom is somethin I can never get use tao KC: IsMinnesota this the first time you've been locked up? JB: No .... yeah, for this long amount a time. Cuz I was always, I told ya I was always the one wid the quick tongue. I'm not getttin trouble, I'm up. Somethin happen, ya know, I got the intuition, ya know what I'm sayin. I'm up (unclear). Man, I'm goin ta Burger King, police hit the block. Ifs like God was lookin out for me. An ifs like I jus kept defyin, ya know what I'm sayin, jus like fuck you, I'm gonna do what I wanna do an God, ya know, I guess he jus said I'm tired a you, I'm sayin save you, I'm gonna throw somethin atchu an if you don't take this I'm gonna throw somethin else atchu. Ya know, I'm notgonna give em the chance ta throw nuttin else at me. KC: How do you think your mama's gonna feel when JB keeps getting involved? Somebody gets pissed

enough with JB and they actually pull the strap and they kill them? Even though they don't usually do it, they do it this time in Minnesota, how is your mama going to feel when you're dead? JB: Man, I think my mama, my mama can't survive widout me, cuz I can't survive widout my mama. Ifs like ifs been me an her since the get. An if ah ... 1honesHy believe, man, if I die my mama would die from ... from a broken heart or whatever they say. Ya know what I'm sayin, I honesHy believe that. An I. .. thas why I don't wanna see dat. An, I don't wanna die man, I'm too young ta die, ya dig. But, jus like she said these cowards will kill ya, man it ain't shit wid cowards. Thas all them niggers is. I'll box til my knuckles bleed, but these niggers jus quick ta pick up a pistol, quick ta .. quick ta ..... an they'll kill ya for a name, they'll kill you for a reputation, ya know what I'm sayin. Ifs bein a killer, they'll kill you for acceptance. People don't have no kind a respect for human life these days. An thas what keep me, ya know what I'm sayin, thas what keep me on edge, ya know what I'm sayin, knowin that. KG: JB what else do I need to ask you. What did you think I'd ask you and I'mProject not smart enough to? 106.42 JB: paugh laugh, laugh] Thas crazy. I dunno, jus .. .Iike what would I ax another person? I'd jus ax em what could you do, ya know what I'm sayin, besides this? Ya know is there any place that you know that you can get, take refuge at, ya know what I'm sayin. Is there anything that you could do, ya know, cuz most a the ..... see idle time is all it is. If, if a person don't haveSociety idle time, then you know what I'm sayin, then ifs all good. Gangs accept that idle time,Research ya know what I'm sayin, an they spend that idle time wich ya an make you feel good for that little amount a time. So, I guess ya know what I'm sayin, I guess thas what ifs all about, but. KG: How can you get out? What can you do to get out? 107.4-- Gang JB: You can't. It's a life time thing. It's like people who get out, don't really get out, they jus stop makin it known what they are. Ya know Historicalwhat I mean. Like if you was a, if you was a White Supremist, jus say you don't really stop bein a White Supremist, you jus stop, ya know what I'm sayin, you jus stop bein Youthso flamboyant wid it. You know, ya know somebody ax you like ...... naw, I'm not a White Supremist Ya know what I'm sayin, but that don't stop makin you a racist It's not gonna stop makin me a Black Stone cuz I say I'm not a Black Stone no more, ya know what I'msayin? KG: How do you stop the activity? I know you're never not going to be a Black Stone, but how do you stop the activity? Minnesota JB: Jus realize .... man, I dunno. If I knew I'd a stopped it. I really don't know. KG: IsMinnesota there any kind of program or school or anything that could help you? JB: Not that I know of. An ifs like. va gotta think. too. all the enemies that you made while you were. ya know what I'm sayin. while you was gang bangin. they see you as a Black Stone. They don't see you as a person. they see you as a Black Stone. even if I drop my ... .Iike my stepbrother dropped his flag. he ain't a GD no more. Huh. but he still walk up ta his Folks an shake their hand. You see what I'm sayin. So. thas what I'm tryin ta say. ya know. if though if I say - oh. I ain't a Stone no more an then I see. ya know what I'm sayin. then I see one a the Moe's on the street an they try ta shake up wid me an I'll shake wid em. then they like .... ya know thas kinda destroyin. ya know what I'm sayin. destroyin my whole surroundins. Ya know what I'm sayin. instead a jus shakin up wid em an walkin away. So

what if a GD see me shake up wid em. den he shoot me. Ya see what I'm sayin? So. irs not. you can never get out of it. or you can never ya know hide an not be it. I don't understand that. KC: What I hear you say, is that if somebody wants to not put there life on the line and possibly being killed, that they have to go someplace and not become affiliated in any way. 110.03 JB: Right on. You gotta go somewhere an jus, I'm a man .... 1don't gang bang, I don't do nothin. Ya know what I'm sayin. I'm a man, I don't know nuttin about that, I'm illiterate ta that stuff. KC: Urn huh. Did you ever do that? JB: Naw. I rather stand in the storm an let them, ya know what I'm sayin, like I.. .. like 1.. .. like I always say, I'm gonna be a man till sees my hearse. I can't, if they can't accept it, I'm gonna stand an be a man, ya know what I'm sayin. I'm gonna still be a Stone, but I'm gonna be a successful man, a father, ya know what I'm sayin. I'm gonna do what I gotta do, ya know what I'm sayin,Project An I'm also be a Black Stone, if people can't accept, then fuck em. I'll jus pass you, ya know, I'll pass you up cuz you ignorant I accept you as bein a Muslim or a Christian, or whatever you are, so accept me for bein a Black Stone. KC: I accept you for being a Black Stone. Anything else I need to ask you? JB: I accept you for bein a gang smart White lady. KC: paugh] Society 111.13 Research

Tape 61 102.30 KC: Who flipped? Gang JB:I t was my cousin, he older, his name Howard Jr., that was the guy who got killed, Thafs his brother. His name Shorty Troldo He a hardcore little Historicalone. He be scaring me sometimes, and he's my cousin. He like, 5-2, I say about 5'2" and I was in the in the kitchen talking crazy, he said somethin andYouth I was talking crazy. And the man he came up behind me and hit me in my kidney, and I huhuhu. And like a death defying hit, it was like a family little fight hit, and he kept punching me and I balled up. And ya know, I'm big to the mug, and this little guy, I couldn't imagine what he do to people he don't know. So I'm fighting him and we shook up, and we friends and stuff. And He told me you ain't sense son, he told me that cause my mama was known for being hard core, uncles be calling my house Minnesotasaying "tell your mama be sending some money. I say, Mama, Uncle ken says send him some money. She said, "tell that nigger he can go to jail, he could be up here with us livin lavish.Minnesota And I tell my uncle say ain't nobody say shit to the hoe when she was on the street robbin people. Then I tell her that. Buta Shory Troldo, he was on American's most wanted. My uncle said he was eating some cereal, and he seen him on Most Wanted and he dropped the cereal on his foot. He killed two people in the elevator. He beat .. .It was his girl friend's mama, beat 'em to death. He cameto Minnesota for two days, up here with us. Went back to Chicago and he found out they smoked up all his dope, and he beat 'em to death in the elevator, and the dude lived long enough to identify him. Then he died too, and they caught him and he's in jail for 65 years. And he was just like 23. 104.26 He called to tell me, and I was talkin to him and he told me the leader of the MC's gave him $50,000,

they gave him two security guys. Two section of the Black Stone Community in Chi town for him to flip Black Stone and Shorty Trold flipped Black Stone. I was wonderin what they give Hoover if he flipped Vice Lord. They give him a million dollars on his books. KC: Who was the Micky Cobra that flipped? JB: I do not know, it was ahhhhh Whafs his name? King Sherif, King something likethat. KC: He from here? JB: No he from Chitown KC: Would you tell me what the structure is of Black Stone? Like the ranks that you can get, can you tell me that? 105.34 JB: If you can be a foot soilder, thafs the bottom of any gang. Then ifs like chief of security. Chief of security, Chief of Violation corne first But I know the first thing I was offeredProject was Chief of Security so I don't know if I jumped over Chief of Violation. Then ifs a first C, ifs like first captin, and second C, and thrid C. Then after third C ifs like chief of your section, then after chief your gettin into like ambassadors, ifs like you can call them ambassadors, you can call them ministers, it depends a lot on who you talkin to. I'm sure if you was talking to Jeff Ford himself, he may call 'im bishops or what ever . It's goes to the youngsters, what ever sounds the coolest. I call them ministers. The highest ranking person I ever talked to was like a chief. His name was Doyboy. SocietyHe was like he was like in his mid 30 when I talked to him, he was the chief of twentyville.Research

Thafs what MOE's say when they leave "twenty moe". I don't know why, I ain't never asked. I don't know why I never asked. Oh I do know Ifs cause, you ever seen the pyramid? It's twenty brinks in the pyramid, for some way twenty brinks,Gang and twenty this and twenty that got caught up in Black Stones. I 'm sure ifs in some of the Lit I didn't read. KC: Why MOE? Historical 107.28 Black Stone, where doesYouth MOE come from? JB: Masters of Education, thafs what I was told. I don't know, I never. Ya know what I'm saying. All well is not, How you spell all well? KC: ALL WELL JB: It's spelled AULWEL, and I never asked why either. It's just something that you accept Ya know what I'm saying. Ifs AULWELMinnesota MOE. It's like twenty bricks, ifs like a pyramid, and ifs like the eye with the tear comin from it Thafs in the middle of the pyramid, the twenty bricks ifs got Bobby Seal, and Huey P.Minnesota Newton, and a Sherif Willis, and Jerome Pratt, I don't know if you know who they are? KC: I know the first. Willis is from here. JB: And a all big times MOE's. I bet you didn't know Willis was a MOE did you? KC: I thought he was a Vice Lord JB: It's like the captins of all power, these people had all power, ya know what I'm sayin. Larrry Hoover is part of the twenty bricks. I was bipin. And my uncle just told me this when he got out of jail the second time. Cause he was makin fun of me cause I didn't read all my lit. He was sayin "You nigger trying to run around here tryin to gang bang, and you AUWEL, whafs the twenty bricks, you don't even know do you?" I'm like, "I know the twenty bricks". He like, "who are the twenty bricks?" I'm like Ford, Prince

Waketa (sp), you know who Jeff Ford is? He started the Black Stones. 109.46

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