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Home , David Stratton, Death Defying Acts, Fred Schepisi, Gillian Armstrong

1 Her Brilliant Career 2 on Four Decades of Filmmaking

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Gillian Armstrong belongs burgh and knew it very well, and he started to that ‘first generation’ of off writing a story about a Scottish psychic I think it’s a clever Australian filmmakers, which and her daughter. But we’re talking about idea. It was a ‘what- the very early genesis of an idea, about ten if’ story, though in a also includes , years ago, well before I was on board. lot of ways we were 4 , very true to the char- and . Like Few cities have looked so wonderful on acter of Houdini. them, she has also gone on screen as looks in this film. A lot of the events are ‘real’: Houdini was to a successful international The first thing I wanted to do when I got obsessed with his mother and with trying to involved with the film was to go and see Ed- find a psychic who might be able to contact career. She spoke to Brian inburgh. And it is amazing! I’ve been to other the other side. I thought that was an inter- McFarlane about her most cities where there’s a central area that’s care- esting way to come up with the story idea. recent film, Death Defying fully preserved, like Prague, but then you look But the Edinburgh psychic and her daughter Acts (2008), and other to the right and there’s a giant high-rise are wholly fictional characters. development of Russian housing, and [in] aspects of her career. most cities where there is a well-preserved I’ve recently read a novel about Howard historical area there is also a section that is all Hughes [God of Speed by Luke Davies, Tell me about the genesis of Death Defying modern. But there was none of that in Edin- Allen & Unwin, 2008], and what fascinates Acts. I’ve read that initially it didn’t involve burgh in the areas where we wanted to film. me about these stories is how the novelist Houdini at all. When you became interest- We could do all those wide shots from the or filmmaker imagines this real-life figure ed in the project, was Houdini already part top of the hill, with maybe a crane visible in might behave in other circumstances. of it? the distance, but really it was a great place Yes, that’s what I mean by the ‘what-if’ That’s a writer talking about how he started for [the writers] to set their period story. It’s element. In the end, you still try to be hon- ten years ago. It’s like saying, ‘I a beautiful city and it still has a real Gothic est about creating that real character and saw a little white church on a hill and I won- sense which was perfect for the story. how he might behave and what his life was dered what the story behind it was.’ It’s a like and so on. writer talking about the very beginning of What fascinates you about the idea of a their [creative] process. One of our writers, fiction film woven partly around a real-life Where does your main interest in the film Brian Ward, is Scottish and he loved Edin- figure? lie? Is it with Houdini [] as a

16 • Metro Magazine 156 2

▐ My Brilliant Career obviously put me on the map internationally, but looking back I think it was One Hundred a Day that made people take notice of me. ▐ 7

But it’s also a film are behaving. She’s caught between two about a strong, deter- worlds. She’s an incredibly strong character. mined woman … We always thought it was a story about four Yeah, but the thing I people, including the Tim Spall character like is that these two [Houdini’s manager, Sugarman] who has be- characters have in come a sort of father figure to Houdini. So some way built up a that was another element in the story 6 protection and a mask that attracted me; I thought it was a fantas- around them, but un- tic group of characters: these two people derneath, both are who need love, Houdini and Mary, and both frightened of love and of them have a sort of protector who loves need love from another human being. them, but no one’s connecting.

5 There are two lots of parents and children, A film needs a point of view … aren’t there? Houdini and his mum; Mary Yes, and in this film it’s Benji’s. and Benji [Saoirse1 Ronan]. What would world-famous figure, or with his romance you say to my idea that, in the end, it is I notice you allow only very limited time to with Mary McGarvie [Catherine Zeta- neither Houdini nor Mary but Benji who is show Houdini’s exploits: was this deliber- Jones]? the centre of the film? ate on your part? What attracted me to the script was that it is You’re right, I think Benji is the film’s centre, Yes, there’s no story in endlessly watching about three lives and trickery, and about love and I think the actors would agree too. and money. I’m interested in the moral di- lemma. It is a story of love, and, if you think She is given the voice-over: does this give 1: Gillian Armstrong confers with stars about it, most of my films have been love sto- her a specially privileged function in rela- and on the set of ries. There’s a whole theory that I’m an ex- tion to the film as a whole? her first American motion picture Mrs. tremist feminist filmmaker, and I’ve decided I In some ways the film is seen through her Soffel. 2: Armstrong on the set of 3: in high tide 4: want to debunk this myth, and confess that, eyes. She’s the one who can see both sides death defying acts 5: oscar and lucinda 6: my truly, all I really am is a big soft romantic. and the strange ways these two adults brilliant career 7: starstruck

Metro Magazine 156 • 17 Houdini’s exploits. That’s not what it’s like the stuff at the Savoy or in the giant No, not at all. People forget I did films like about; it’s about a man who’s reached a headquarters of the Officer Training Corps Starstruck [1982] and The Last Days of Chez point in his life where he’s really playing with in a mansion about forty minutes outside Nous [1992]. I get sent a lot of [scripts for] pe- death. That’s where the title comes from. near the airport. We used this for riod films because whatever your most suc- He’s dancing on a fine line and the only person Houdini’s hotel. We were all over the place cessful international films are tends to brand who knows how dangerous his behaviour and only used Ealing for the last three days you, and it’s something I fight against. Period has become is his manager, who we see for some smaller sets. films are much harder and more expensive: looking anxious when Houdini is too long in you can’t point the camera left or right with- the tank. He knows that there’s a weird sui- Like many films today, this is a co-produc- out wondering what you’ll pick up; you’ve got cidal impulse at work here. tion. Do you think this is the way for Aus- to hold up traffic; you’ve got to re-do sound tralian filmmakers to go? to make sure you’re not getting wrong city The film is shot in a mixture of locations I think it’s the way for everyone around the sounds; and so on. No, it’s not a preference, and studios. What was it like to be work- world [to go]. Look at the latest batch of but, having said that, I’d have to agree that a ing in the old Ealing Studios – and, I think, Academy [Awards] nominations: they’ve all lot of good stories come out of the past. in Pinewood [Studios] for the [water] tank got several contributing countries. Produc- sequences? I understand the Ealing Studi- ers are doing it all over the world, taking I wondered if they called specially on your os have been rejuvenated … a piece of money here, another piece there. earlier interests in costume and production They have and they haven’t. The offices The studio system is now mainly just for design. As I understand it, your earliest are all pretty shabby. There’s an incredi- backing the big action, popcorn movies, ambition was in costume design and a lit- ble sense of history when you’re working in though even with those now sometimes two tle later in production design. Britain. I shot some of Charlotte Gray [2001] studios will share the load. When I was a teenager, I wanted to do some- at Twickenham [Film Studios] too. Ealing’s thing in the arts, but that was a long time ago, a great place, actually; it’s a nice little vil- How difficult is it to set up such deals? when we had no film industry in . I lage around the studio on the Ealing Green It’s terribly tricky. It’s like a pack of cards. thought I might be able to do something be- [in West London]. We did a lot of the water At one point, we had a deal set up, then we hind the scenes in the theatre, but by the time stuff at Pinewood, where they have a huge lost the German money. You know that if the I’d finished at Swinburne [in ] when tank. It’s an amazing, sophisticated space. other four of five [parties] contributing to fi- I was twenty I knew that film was the thing for nance aren’t in place by a certain date you me. Film is a visual art form, and the filmmak- It is a great-looking film: how closely did may lose your cast. It’s a huge thing, and I er creates a world, whether it’s contemporary you work with your production designer think that Marian Macgowan, the Australian or futuristic or in the past. The film itself has and cinematographer? producer I brought on board, did an extraor- its own style and resonance. Very closely, I always do, and I also spend a dinary job holding it all together. long time choosing them. For this film, I found I see production and costume design as a fantastic up-and-coming young cinematog- How about the casting – you have Austral- continuing strengths of your films. rapher, Haris Zambarloukos, a Cypriot [and] ian, American and British leads, and an Well, I’m very strong on the design aspect, a graduate from the London Film School. I Irish girl playing Benji? Does this make for but it’s just as important to me on such con- think he’s about to take off as a big name, in difficulties? temporary-set films as High Tide [1987] or the way that did after shooting I think casting now is a global enterprise. Chez Nous, when you’re just as careful about Charlotte Gray and Rob Marshall took him on We weren’t forced to cast from the countries how you control the colour and so on. De- for Chicago [2002]. And Haris, when he fin- of the investors at all. For instance, I found sign is about a number of things: it’s about ished Death Defying Acts, went on to shoot Saoirse in ; we have Irish money what’s right for the characters [and] for the Mamma Mia! [Phyllida Lloyd, 2008]. in the film, but I didn’t have to cast the ac- mood of the film. It amuses me that Oscars tress because of the country. And we didn’t for design are so often handed out for period There is beautiful use of the Edinburgh cast Guy because of the Australian money: films. Period films also get costume awards, locations. Was there any difficulty in doing the Australian backers were quite okay with but costume and design can be just as clev- the location work or was the city coopera- me [as director] and for the post-production er in a modern sense. It isn’t necessarily tive about this? work to be done here. We did all the editing, about velvet and lace. It’s essentially about Edinburgh was very cooperative. When we sound and special effects here; the music [by creating a mood and an atmosphere that re- shot in the main part of town, opposite [Ed- ] was all composed and inforces the meaning of your story. inburgh] Castle, my cinematographer wanted recorded here, with the Melbourne Sympho- them to turn off those modern orange ny Orchestra. Guy was cast because he’s an You used as production searchlights trained on it … they did all we incredible actor. It was the American produc- designer several times. What did you think asked, and they blocked off all the main ers who first mentioned Guy. It was nothing of as her special strengths? park area with the Scott Monument right in to do with the co-production, it was because I think Luci is a genius. A lot of people don’t the centre of town, so they were really very they felt he had the reputation for being both realize what a production designer does. For helpful. Then, we shot all the interiors in very brave and a chameleon. He’s the sort of instance, after Mrs. Soffel [1984] I thought, London – some of it in the Savoy ballroom, actor who can take on a character and be- she’s not going to get her full due here, be- which was very nice! come that character. cause people won’t realize we built half this prison, to match the real bit of the prison Did you shoot most interiors at Ealing? You’ve made a lot of period films. Does which we only shot in for two days. In Oscar No, we shot a lot of interiors on location, this reflect a personal preference? and Lucinda [1997], she designed the church

18 • Metro Magazine 156 which we floated up the river. This was a films from the Australian Film and Television umentary about what it was like to be four- tricky thing to pull off because Peter [Carey, School. It’s only ten minutes long and it was teen. At this time, Seven Up! [Paul Almond, the author of the novel from which it is accepted in the Film Festival and 1964 – Michael Apted directed 7 Plus Seven adapted] had talked about this glass church won a number of awards. It was the film that or ‘Fourteen Up’ (1970) and the later films] in the book and Luci had to bring the idea to put me on the map in Australia, and that’s hadn’t been shown in Australia, and no one life in the film in a way that reinforces eve- when the offers came for the bigger films. My had then done this particular thing – going ryone’s fantasies, and this is something the Brilliant Career obviously put me on the map back to see what had become of the young author doesn’t have to worry about. So we internationally, but looking back I think it was people in the original film. felt we had to pull off something really clever One Hundred a Day that made people take here. Production design can be both showy, notice of me. What specifically were you exploring in like that church was, or it can be subtle, like your series? building two wings of a jail. It’s one of two early films adapted from It was originally a matter of the girls talking stories by Alan Marshall: One Hundred a about their hopes and dreams and their fu- While we’re on Oscar and Lucinda, it Day and The Singer and the Dancer [1977]. tures. When I said, ‘What’s your ideal age to seemed to me that the central image in the What drew you to them? be?’, they said, ‘Eighteen.’ So, I thought it novel – of the glass church floating down I met Alan, and felt very privileged to be in- would be interesting to see what happened a river – almost cried out for filming. How volved with him. He saw my final screenplay to them, to see them again as eighteen year important was this in your decision to film and I later screened the film for him. olds, and I went back to do the follow-up. I the novel? managed to raise the money and Film Aus- Yes, it was definitely an extraordinary visual You also wrote and produced them: was tralia came in (the South Australian Film effect in the novel, but in the end my reaction this a matter of choice or necessity? Corporation had done the first one), and is mostly a gut one in relation to the origi- The one year that we all packed in at film when I caught the girls again at eighteen I nal story, as to whether or not I got involved school, on that post-grad course I did, they realized it was completely unique to have with those characters and went on a journey had approached a number of Australian writ- caught them growing up. There was a fan- with them. And certainly I did with Oscar and ers. We didn’t have six months to work on tastic reaction to it; it was run on the ABC Lucinda; every film I’ve ever done, I’ve only the script; we had to find something to start and it was called Fourteen’s Good, Eight- done because I cared about the characters. shooting in a few weeks time. So they’d sort- een’s Better [1980], and as soon as I did It’s the human story that gets me in. ed a number of short stories and asked the that everyone said, You’ve got to go back writers if they’d be willing to have their sto- again, so that’s how it all started. It’s a study of obsession, isn’t it? ries filmed. There was a chapter from Alan’s Yes, it’s compulsive the way those charac- book, How Beautiful Are Thy Feet, which he Have you kept in touch with the women in- ters behave. But about the church floating wrote about the time when he was working volved? down the river, Luci and I found the right lo- in a shoe factory, and when I read it, I loved I haven’t seen them for quite a while because cation and I think we did pull it off. it, so that’s how I came to do it. Then later, I’ve been away with my last couple of films, because of my friendship with Alan, I asked but I’ve been wondering how they all are It was filmed in both Australia and Eng- him about another story, which I adapted into and what’s happened to them. When I did land. Did this make problems for you? The Singer and the Dancer. the fourth film with them, we ended with two It is incredibly tiring to film in two coun- of them having fourteen-year-old daughters tries because basically everything doubles How did you come to get Ruth Crack- and one of them a sixteen year old, so there up: you’ve got one team prepping things in nell for the latter at this very early stage of was a sense of the full circle. Now, of course, Australia and another team doing the same your career? I’m curious to know what’s happened to the in England, and the director, the cinema- She actually came and auditioned. I was women but also to their daughters. tographer and the first AD [assistant direc- very fortunate to have someone as wonder- tor] are flying back and forth, and it’s not a ful as Ruth. She hadn’t done very much film Your feature film career is regularly punc- short flight. It was really very wearing. I’d go at that point, and she was always very proud tuated by documentary work. I don’t think to England to look for locations, then come of the film. She was wonderful to work with. there are all that many directors of whom back and look for them here, then go back We had no money and we were all staying at one would say this. and see what’s happening in England. At one a cheap hotel outside Sydney, and she just This series of films … became a personal point we shot non-stop for ten days in Eng- threw herself into the whole thing. thing. I’d caught three people who were land, then all had to jump on a plane and fly very honest on camera and who’d had pret- back to Australia. The logistics of filming in Smokes and Lollies [1975] was a significant ty incredible lives. It was just a fluke that I two countries as far away from each other as documentary about [three] fourteen-year- did the Florence Broadhurst film [Unfold- England and Australia are very complicated. old girls and you returned to the girls again ing Florence: The Many Lives of Florence You begin to wish there were two directors: in 1980 and 1996. Were you influenced in Broadhurst (2006)]; that was the first prop- you know, I’ll direct the Australian bit and this project by Michael Apted’s Seven Up er documentary on another subject I’d done send me the rushes of the English bit. series? for years. It was a matter of timing: the pro- No, I was in fact making it at the same time ducer approached me when I was waiting Do you think of My Brilliant Career [1979] as Michael. It was a Gill Armstrong inspira- for all the finance to come together for as a turning point in your own career? tion; I had no idea about what Michael was Death Defying Acts, and I felt I wanted to No, I’d say One Hundred a Day [1973] was doing. I’d just finished at the film school and make something, so I said to the producers my breakthrough, one of my graduation I’d been commissioned to do one short doc- of Florence Broadhurst, ‘If you can get the

Metro Magazine 156 • 19 money quickly I can fit it in.’ And they did. No, it was Margaret Fink, the producer who in Oscar and Lucinda, Oscar is the lead. Jour- knew the novel and was passionate about it. nalists go to the movies and think I’m bloody Do you find different satisfactions in docu- She’d had the rights for a number of years Miles Franklin. I mean, who goes to Phillip mentary work? and had been trying to get it together. She Noyce’s films and writes about how his films It’s a very different art from feature filmmaking, brought it to me. I’d never heard of it, I’m show an interest in men? I keep wanting to and it’s much more difficult, I think, to di- ashamed to say, but when I read it I thought say [that] there’s another side to me: I’m not rect documentaries. You’re dealing with real it was a fantastic story. One of the reasons just a redhead who says, ‘I want to go out people’s lives, with real people on camera it took so long raising the money – we were into the world and achieve.’ I also love rock being encouraged to reveal things they may actually turned down by the AFC [Australian music, I love kitsch, I love to laugh as well. not want to, whereas in fiction everyone Film Commission] – was that it was felt there knows they’re playing a character. had been too many of these period com- Your films do still speak eloquently about ing-of-age stories. But my point was that it’s women … To backtrack, your most undervalued film, never the era the film is set in that matters, I’m a woman and I hope my films speak of in my view, is Starstruck. What do you feel but whether or not it’s got a good story and women in a complicated way, but of course about it? It was quite daring to make a mu- whether it’s got something new to say. I’d want all my characters to be complicat- sical in Australia in 1982. ed and real. Because I’m a woman, I’d want Oh, it was. We were probably a bit ahead of Did you feel you could make it relevant to to make sure I didn’t have thin, cardboard our time trying to do a rock musical here in the feminist issues that were being articu- female characters. the early eighties. In the States at that time, lated then? the idea of a rock musical set in Australia When [My Brilliant Career] came out, it was Speaking of films about women’s was about as remote as having one set in considered radical because the heroine relationships, two significant ones in your Botswana, though that’s probably quite hip turned down the man. The film was suc- filmography are High Tide and now. The international audience for Austral- cessful all round the world because it had [1994]. One is Australian, the other Ameri- ian films was the sort of people who went to something brave and radical to say. This can; one is contemporary, one is period. French or Italian movies, a middle-class au- whole thing about whether people are in Do you know that I turned Little Women dience who thought Australian cinema was period clothes or not is a furphy; what mat- down, because I said I’m so sick of being a matter of ‘beautiful’ films like My Brilliant tered was that it had something contemporary sent these scripts about women achievers – Career and Picnic at Hanging Rock [Peter to say to people in the seventies, and I was you know, women mountain-climbers, first Weir, 1975], not a rock musical. A year lat- shocked as well. I’ve talked to women women to fly etc., as though that’s all I care er, Australian bands became huge, and the journalists and authors over the years about. So they dragged me into doing Little film might have had a much bigger success who’ve told me that they became writers Women, but in the end I did decide to do it then, but it’s always about timing. because they saw My Brilliant Career. because, if you think about it, Little Women was the beginning of all these stories, and Did you have in mind those old American Did you work with Eleanor Witcombe on probably the sort of story that influenced lit- musicals about kids putting on a show? the screenplay? tle Miles Franklin out there in the bush. I Yes, that was the screenwriter’s intention – Yes, I worked with Eleanor for two years. think it’s so timeless because Louisa [May] like Judy and Mickey saying, ‘Let’s put on Alcott wrote so honestly about her own life. a show.’ It ultimately did good business in Well, it’s a lovely tender film … Most children’s literature before then tended Australia with eleven year olds who went Some people who saw it recently said that to be very idealized, and she wrote it warts- back to see it many times and knew all the they thought it stood the test of time. Of and-all, with fights and screaming fits, one dance moves. It also caught on in San Fran- course, having Judy Davis as your lead sister pinching the other sister’s things. She cisco and New York and became a cult film, meant you were off to a good start. She was wrote great, real characters, and that’s what like Rocky Horror [The Rocky Horror Picture a star from the very beginning. And don’t I related to. To me, it wasn’t just a book Show (Jim Sharman, 1975)]. The reviews forget . We found these two young about women’s need to be recognized in at the time didn’t accept it for what it was. people no one had ever seen, and both society, but Louisa’s tribute to her mother It was often along the lines of ‘If she’s go- went on to become international stars. and her sisters. ing to do something about young people, why doesn’t she focus on youth unemploy- Many of your films are focused on women And because it’s set in the past, as we said ment?’ I ran into [critic and of exceptional energies or talents: think of before, doesn’t mean it is any less signifi- presenter of At the Movies on ABC1] about Mrs. Soffel, High Tide … Has this been a cant to us than a contemporary-set film ten years later and he said that he thought matter of deliberate intent on your part? like High Tide. he was really wrong about it. Adults didn’t I’m interested in the human condition and in No, and you don’t have to do it in a way that understand that it was a camp in-joke thing. character. There has been a bit of branding, is pompous and romantic about the past. though. Because My Brilliant Career was my We’re still human beings whether our skirts To go back to My Brilliant Career, what first big film, I think a lot of people felt I was are longer or shorter. attracted you to Miles Franklin’s novel? that character – and I think they felt Judy was There were quite a few period films, with that character. And yes, I’m a feminist, but You’ve worked with some major stars – Di- coming-of-age themes, in the latter 1970s: I’m not only interested in women and women ane Keaton and Mel Gibson in Mrs. Sof- did you consciously want to work in this achieving. People forget that in Mrs. Soffel, fel, in Little Women, Cate genre? Or did you have other reasons for Mel Gibson had one of his best roles and Blanchett, , Catherine Zeta- wanting to film this book? gave one of his best performances ever, and Jones and others. Have you had good

20 • Metro Magazine 156 experiences of this aspect of filmmaking? a big studio picture. However, I learnt a lot very gifted at their jobs, and I know they I’ve been very lucky in having had a lovely about how the politics of filmmaking [in the make me look better, so I really respect their group of major movie stars. I know they’re US] are very different, and I was lucky to judgements. Sometimes you’ll have crew not all easy to get along with, so I’ve been have very experienced producers in Edgar people who won’t speak up, but these others really fortunate that they’ve all been down- Scherick and Scott Rudin, but it was a lot will tell me if they’re unsure whether some- to-earth people and they’ve all taken on more difficult dealing with that whole com- thing’s working. I appreciate the fact that I’ve projects and me [as their director] because mittee approach. It was a whole different got a team who are honest with me; I respect they cared about the film. There aren’t ball-game from raising the money and shoot- their taste, and I say to young filmmakers, ‘Al- any horror stories [regarding] the stars I’ve ing an independent film in Australia. ways take the best idea in the room; it’s not a worked with. matter of your ego but of making great films.’ There’s quite a strong line of continuity of Mrs. Soffel was your first American film. personnel associated with your films. Does A last, hideous question: I was thinking the How did it come about? What was your ex- this increase the efficiency or enjoyment other day as a parent how strange it is that perience of working there? I know much of of filmmaking for you? you don’t have favourites among your chil- the film was made on locations in Oh, yes. I’ve often fought very hard to do dren, and I wondered if you as a filmmaker and Wisconsin: was it hard work? this, and have nearly always brought an Aus- have a favourite among your films? When I started Little Women and saw that tralian cinematographer with me: I’ve done a No. I think that’s a good analogy. I think it had snow scenes, I said, ‘This time we’re number of films with and with they are like your children and you’d nev- going to make it!’ After the snowy location Geoff Simpson. On Death Defying Acts, I had er single one out. When I see my films, I work on Mrs. Soffel, I said, ‘Never again’. to have an English crew because it was a co- find there are parts of them I love and parts There were Russell Boyd and I, two Austral- production, but you develop a short-hand of of them [that] make me think ‘Why did I do ians who loved the beach, standing all day understanding with people you’ve worked that?’ So, they’re a bit painful for me to see, in [the] freezing cold – it’s not a matter of be- with before. It is efficient, and also you’ve be- but I couldn’t single any one out. • ing on skis, but just standing in it, and then it come friends with them and there’s a great started melting. If you do a retake you’ve got sense of support. I’ve taken Mark Turnbull, Endnote to blot the footprints, it’s a nightmare! And it my first assistant [director], round the world 1 For the curious, I asked Gillian how this was an eye-opener for me coming from inde- with me, and in the editing room Nick Beau- name is pronounced and she said, ‘Ser- pendent low-budget Australian films to doing man has cut nearly all my films. They’re also sha.’ So now you know.

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