Vol. 715 Thursday No. 2 19 November 2009

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT

ORDER OF BUSINESS

Digital Economy Bill [HL] Cluster Munitions (Prohibition) Bill [HL] Bribery Bill [HL] Northern Ireland Assembly Members Bill [HL] Contaminated Blood (Support for Infected and Bereaved Persons) Bill [HL] Marriage (Wales) Bill [HL] Live Music Bill [HL] Children’s Rights Bill [HL] Rehabilitation of Offenders (Amendment) Bill [HL] Building Regulations (Amendment) Bill [HL] Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies and Credit Unions Bill [HL] Powers of Entry etc. Bill [HL] Consumer Emissions (Climate Change) Bill [HL] Constitutional Reform Bill [HL] Marine Navigation Aids Bill [HL] Damages (Asbestos-related Conditions) Bill [HL] First Reading Committee of Selection Membership Motion Queen’s Speech Debate (2nd Day) Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page

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© Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2009, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ 27 Digital Economy Bill [HL][19 NOVEMBER 2009] Rehabilitation of Offenders Bill 28 House of Lords Contaminated Blood (Support for Infected and Bereaved Persons) Bill [HL] Thursday, 19 November 2009. First Reading

11 am A Bill to establish a committee to advise on haemophilia; to make provision in relation to blood donations; to Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Newcastle. establish a scheme for NHS compensation cards for people who have been treated with and infected by contaminated blood or blood products; to make provision Digital Economy Bill [HL] for the financial compensation of people treated with First Reading and infected by contaminated blood and blood products and their widows, dependants and carers; to establish a review of the support available for people who have been 11.06 am treated with and infected by contaminated blood or blood products; and for connected purposes. A Bill to make provision for the functions of the Office of Communications; to make provision for the online The Bill was introduced by Lord Morris of Manchester, infringement of copyright, for licensing of copyright read a first time and ordered to be printed. and performers’ rights and for penalties for infringement; to make provision for internet domain registries; to make provision for the functions of the Channel Four Marriage (Wales) Bill [HL] Television Corporation; to make provision for the regulation First Reading of television and radio services; to make provision for the regulation of the use of the electromagnetic spectrum; A Bill to make provision to enable persons to be married to amend the Video Recordings Act 1984; to make in a place of worship in a parish in the church in Wales provision for public lending rights in relation to electronic with which they have a qualifying connection; and for publications; and for connected purposes. connected purposes.

The Bill was introduced by Lord Young of Norwood The Bill was introduced by Lord Morris of Aberavon, Green, on behalf of Lord Mandelson, read a first time on behalf of Lord Rowe-Beddoe, read a first time and and ordered to be printed. ordered to be printed.

Cluster Munitions (Prohibition) Bill [HL] Live Music Bill [HL] First Reading First Reading

A Bill to make provision for giving effect to the Convention A Bill to amend the Licensing Act 2003 with respect to on Cluster Munitions. the performance of live music entertainment; and for connected purposes.

The Bill was introduced by Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead, The Bill was introduced by Baroness Bonham-Carter of read a first time and ordered to be printed. Yarnbury, on behalf of Lord Clement-Jones, read a first time and ordered to be printed. Bribery Bill [HL] First Reading Children’s Rights Bill [HL] First Reading A Bill to make provision for offences relating to bribery; and for connected purposes. A Bill to give further effect to rights and freedoms guaranteed under the United Nations Convention on the The Bill was introduced by Lord Bach, read a first time Rights of the Child; and for connected purposes. and ordered to be printed. The Bill was introduced by Baroness Walmsley, read a first time and ordered to be printed. Northern Ireland Assembly Members Bill [HL] Rehabilitation of Offenders (Amendment) First Reading Bill [HL] First Reading A Bill to make provision relating to salaries, allowances and pensions for Members of the Northern Ireland A Bill to amend the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974; Assembly. and for connected purposes.

The Bill was introduced by Baroness Royall of Blaisdon, The Bill was introduced by Lord Dholakia, read a first read a first time and ordered to be printed. time and ordered to be printed. 29 Building Regulations (Amendment) Bill[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 30

Building Regulations (Amendment) Bill Marine Navigation Aids Bill [HL] [HL] First Reading First Reading A Bill to establish a Marine Navigation Aids Commission; A Bill to make provision for the amendment of the to establish an Office of Marine Navigation Aids Building Regulations 2000 to make it a requirement to Regulation; to amend the Merchant Shipping Act 1995; install an automatic fire suppression system in new and for connected purposes. residential premises. The Bill was introduced by Lord Berkeley, read a first The Bill was introduced by Lord Harrison, read a first time and ordered to be printed. time and ordered to be printed. Co-operative and Community Benefit Damages (Asbestos-related Conditions) Societies and Credit Unions Bill [HL] Bill [HL] First Reading First Reading A Bill to make provision for societies to be registered as A Bill to provide that certain asbestos-related conditions co-operative or community benefit societies and to re-name are actionable personal injuries; and for connected purposes. the Industrial and Provident Societies Acts; to apply to registered societies the provisions relating to directors’ The Bill was introduced by Baroness Quin, read a first disqualification and to make provision for the application time and ordered to be printed. of certain other enactments relating to companies; to confer power to make provision for credit unions corresponding to any provision applying to building Committee of Selection societies; and for connected purposes. Membership Motion The Bill was introduced by Lord Tomlinson, read a first time and ordered to be printed. 11.14 am Moved By The Chairman of Committees (Lord Brabazon Powers of Entry etc. Bill ]HL] of Tara) First Reading That, in accordance with Standing Order 64, a Committee of Selection be appointed to select and A Bill to regulate powers of entry and powers in relation propose to the House the names of the members to to documents; and for connected purposes. form each Select Committee of the House (except the Committee of Selection itself and any committee The Bill was introduced by Lord Selsdon, read a first otherwise provided for by statute or by order of the time and ordered to be printed. House) or any other body not being a Select Committee referred to it by the Chairman of Committees, and Consumer Emissions (Climate Change) the panel of Deputy Chairmen of Committees; and Bill [HL] that the following members together with the Chairman of Committees be appointed to the committee: First Reading B Anelay of St Johns, L Bassam of Brighton, A Bill to make provision, with regard to greenhouse B D’Souza, B Goudie, L Hylton, L McNally, gases, for the setting of a consumer B Royall of Blaisdon, B Shephard of Northwold, emissions target and for the reporting of United Kingdom L Shutt of Greetland, L Strathclyde. consumer emissions. Motion agreed. The Bill was introduced by Lord Teverson, read a first time and ordered to be printed. Queen’s Speech Constitutional Reform Bill [HL] Debate (2nd Day) First Reading 11.14 am A Bill to repeal the Act 1972 Moved on Wednesday 18 November by Baroness Symons and the Human Rights Act 1998; to introduce binding of Vernham Dean referendum powers at national and local level; to require That an humble Address be presented to Her the approval of Parliament to enter into international Majesty as follows: treaties and to declare war; to make provision about the work of Parliament; to devolve legislative responsibility “Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty’s for certain policy areas to local authorities; and for most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual connected purposes. and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank YourMajesty for the most gracious Speech The Bill was introduced by Lord Willoughby de Broke, which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses read a first time and ordered to be printed. of Parliament”. 31 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 32

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth With less than three weeks remaining until the Office (Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead): My Lords, it Copenhagen summit, my right honourable friend the is an honour to open this foreign affairs debate on Her Prime Minister and other Ministers are determined to Gracious Majesty’s Address to Parliament. sustain pressure for a new and far-reaching framework We have clearly experienced a year of turbulence in for agreement on reducing carbon emissions. At the development, defence and foreign policy. The global 2008 December , the EU agreed its economic recovery is far from complete and the world’s mitigation offer of a 20 per cent emissions reduction poorest countries continue to suffer most. The horrors rising to 30 per cent in the context of an ambitious of local and international terrorism persist in Afghanistan, global deal. My right honourable friend the Prime Pakistan and elsewhere, while in the Great Lakes, Minister was at the forefront of that effort to reach a Darfur and other areas conflicts ruin millions of innocent common EU position. In addition, the has pledged lives. From the Philippines to El Salvador, there have to significantly increase the scale and predictability of been many manifestations of the devastating human climate finance. Again, my right honourable friend the cost of environmental fragility. Decades of instability Prime Minister was at the vanguard of that debate on and insecurity in Somalia have contributed to an what is needed. The challenge now is to leverage increase in the number of pirates who target not only public and private finance to meet these commitments. large vessels but also individual sailors regardless of That challenge has to be met. nationality, including the British couple Paul and Rachel Climate change is inseparably linked to the other Chandler, who are currently being held hostage—the major challenges of the moment: the global economic thoughts of the whole House will be with them and recovery and particularly the essential efforts to lift those working for their release. the world’s poorest out of poverty. If we do not Meanwhile, because of lack of progress in reduction succeed on one, we will fail on both. Some 1.4 billion of carbon emissions, global temperatures are rising. people still live below the poverty line, with up to Five million people in the UK now live or work in 90 million more pushed back into poverty by the properties that are at risk of flooding—a figure that global economic crisis. Ten million children die each could rise to 8 million by 2035, according to the year before their fifth birthday and 75 million of the Environment Agency’s latest figures. Countless millions world’s children are without access to primary education more people across the planet are already enduring the worldwide. That is why we will publish draft legislation trials and tragedies inflicted by climate change. to make binding our commitment to spend 0.7 per cent of GDP on official development assistance from Truly, the past 12 months have been a time in which 2013. I hope that the whole House will share that the people of Britain have seen just how closely events objective and support a proposal that I think crosses and trends on other continents directly affect their all political boundaries. We will also remain committed lives and livelihoods. A crisis originating in the United to the millennium development goal targets in advance States brought the collapse of foreign as well as UK of the review conference at the UN next year. banks, hit the savings of British families and triggered the shrinkage or collapse of British businesses. I turn now to the threats posed by conflict and instability. Nuclear weapons continue to pose a major Against that background, the Government confirm threat to our security and, in the run-up to the UN our strong commitment to a resilient economic recovery, non-proliferation treaty review conference next year, to combating global warming, to meeting international we seek to strengthen global agreements on how we development goals, to defeating terrorism and to support progress, recognising, of course, the particular strengthening and reforming the institutions of the challenges posed by the continuing failure of Iran and international community. I say to the House, therefore, North Korea to comply with UN Security Council that we are internationalists both by conviction and by resolutions. In the coming weeks, this House will have necessity, because we know that the most difficult the opportunity to consider the Convention on Cluster problems that our country and our world face are Munitions and the Bill that will pave the way for the beyond the capacity of even the most powerful nations United Kingdom’s ratification of that convention. to solve on their own. The convention will prevent armed forces from using It is because we take seriously our duty to protect these weapons and create a legal obligation to destroy and promote the interests of the British people that them within eight years. multilateralism will remain central to our foreign policy The foreign policy issue that is naturally of pressing perspectives and action. We can tackle the global concern to this House, as it is for the country as a challenges of climate change, international terrorism, whole, is the security situation in Afghanistan. The nuclear proliferation or economic recession only if we cost has certainly been heavy, especially in the lives of remain actively and constructively engaged in all the British service personnel. We salute their courage and multilateral institutions to which we in the United we grieve at the deaths and the casualties and send our Kingdom belong—from the G20 to the European deepest condolences to their friends and families. Union, the UN and the Commonwealth. To provoke unnecessary tensions with those closest to us or to Our goal must remain a stable Afghan Government retreat into an isolationist mindset would be a serious with a democratic mandate able to secure their own misdirection of our national policy at a time when, for territory from the threat of terrorism and protect their the most pragmatic and self-interested reasons, our own people. As we do that, we have a responsibility to country needs friends and allies. That would offer the consider the consequences that would arise if al-Qaeda illusion of sovereignty paid for by the loss of our were able to re-establish its Afghan safe havens and to national significance and influence. regroup and reorganise. Those who advocate an end 33 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 34

[BARONESS KINNOCK OF HOLYHEAD] to democracy in Burma. Together with the United to our military commitment undoubtedly do so for the States and the EU, we will continue to press for the best of motives, but what they have not done is answer release of political prisoners and for dialogue between the question of how a resurgence of al-Qaeda activity the Government, the opposition and the ethnic can be prevented if withdrawal takes place before local nationalities. Afghan forces are strong enough to repel terrorism on their own. Closer to home, the ratification of the Lisbon treaty brings to a conclusion nearly two decades of In addition, no one should fail to understand the preoccupation with the institutional architecture of implications of a Taliban victory for Afghanistan’s the . It is now time for Europe to fix neighbours, especially Pakistan, where militancy and its focus on issues that deserve a higher priority: the terrorism continue to be grave threats to stability. We promotion of a fairer and more stable global economy; are working closely with the authorities there through the fulfilment of new carbon emissions targets; policies the strategic dialogue and DfID’s £50 million assistance to meet Europe’s future energy needs; and greater programme. However, our efforts will come to nothing effectiveness in dealing with countries such as Russia if Afghanistan once again becomes a launch pad for and China. violence and international terrorism. That is the task that we and our NATO and other allies continue to Those basic realities mean that calls for renegotiation undertake. The threat has to be tackled at source; we of the treaties and a repatriation of powers from the cannot wait for it to come to us. As the Prime Minister EU lack relevance and intelligence. If pursued, they said this week, the campaign in Afghanistan is a would make the UK the only member state wanting to necessity, not a choice. prolong the institutional wrangling that has already absorbed far too much of the EU’s energies in recent We have hoped for many years for a US President years. That would, at the very least, waste precious to devote himself and his Administration to the creation political capital. There is no prospect that our EU of a Palestinian state that lives in peace alongside partners will agree to unravel arduously established Israel. With President Obama we have just that. We current arrangements. To believe otherwise would be support him strongly on the Middle East and on so to repeat the failed policy of threats, vetoes, vacant many other issues. Our relationship with the US will chairs and beef wars that were followed in each and continue to be close and constructive. every case by confusion and climbdown. There is no I am aware that the House has shown consistent future in diplomacy by tantrum. The only result would and commendable interest in developments in Sudan. be to alienate our allies with no positive outcome for In Darfur, several million people are still wretchedly our country. This policy is not being advanced in displaced and the high levels of insecurity continue to defence of the British national interest; it is an attempt affect ordinary people as well as humanitarian workers. to patch up a party schism. Our country should never In south Sudan, tribal fighting is intensifying. There risk being disabled by such political pettiness. has been little progress towards gathering information for the census and registering voters in advance of the Obviously, the Government do not regard the European national elections in April next year and the 2011 Union as perfect. Indeed, we support profound reform referendum on self-determination for the south. Urgent of, for instance, the common agricultural policy and progress is needed on implementing the comprehensive the EU budget, but we also recognise that the EU is a peace agreement. success story that inspires admiration, as evidenced by the many countries seeking to join and by the fact that In Somalia, a protracted conflict in one of the very the European example of integration is being widely poorest countries of the world has caused a massive emulated in South America, Africa and Asia. This humanitarian crisis, migration flows and regional emerging trend of greater regional co-operation and instability.We are committed to supporting the transitional integration is one that we encourage and support. We federal Government and working with the international welcome the fact the African Union, together with community to build a peaceful and stable Somalia. We regional institutions in Africa, including SADC and know that failure to do so would have severe security ECOWAS, is emerging as a leader on conflict and implications, not just for the Horn of Africa but issues within that continent. globally. In Zimbabwe, the transition to democracy is far In the 60th year of the existence of the Commonwealth, from over and people continue to suffer daily threats we recognise the need to maximise the potential of an to their security. We are following progress after the unparalleled north-south relationship based on shared SADC meeting in Maputo and trust that President values and principles. The Commonwealth looks set Zuma’s mediation will produce positive results. In the not only to survive but to thrive for the next 60 years Great Lakes , there has been progress, particularly and beyond. We look forward to the summit in Trinidad in the political rapprochement between Rwanda and next week. the DRC, but human rights abuses, including sexual The UN remains the only international organisation and gender-based violence, continue, particularly in that is truly representative of the breadth of the world’s the east. countries. The case for UN reform is clearly compelling. In Sri Lanka, we look forward to greater progress We will therefore pursue our efforts to ensure that the towards a more inclusive, long-term political solution Security Council is more representative and takes account where accountability is a basic part of any reconciliation of emerging powers such as Brazil and India. We look process. We remain deeply concerned at the appalling forward to the creation of a single entity to address human rights abuses and the lack of a credible transition gender issues at the United Nations, so that across the 35 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 36 work of UN agencies, from access to finance to in recent years. In fact, knowing our place in the world agricultural support, the gender perspective is taken means knowing who we are together. It is just as much fully into account. part of the foundations of The Home We Build I recognise that the interests and expertise of this Together—to take the title of a book written by one of House range widely and deeply and I know that it is our new and distinguished colleagues, the Chief Rabbi, impossible in this short space of time to do justice to the noble Lord, Lord Sacks—as much as the so-called every area of concern, but my noble friend Lady bread-and-butter issues which occupy domestic politics. Taylor and I look forward to our debate today and to In the past few years—even in the past couple of our continuing discussions on these issues over the years or so—the international landscape has altered coming months. It remains absolutely clear that, as we fundamentally. After the fall of the Berlin Wall, there tackle the international issues and relationships that was a lot of talk of the triumph of the West, but that is matter to the UK, to go it alone in the 21st century not how it has turned out in the 20 years since. Today, means going nowhere. Britain cannot risk or afford power and influence are shifting irreversibly away that. from the western or the Atlantic powers. The fastest growing and the largest trade flows are between Asian 11.31 am countries. The big five of the Asian economies have a Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, I think we can GNP which exceeds that of Europe or America. In all agree that debate on the humble Address got off to purchasing power terms, it is probably larger than a very good start yesterday, which proves not only that both together. our debates in your Lordships’ House are better than While the EU economies, including ours, are still in the other place but that our jokes are as well. The shrinking with the recession, the Asians and some humble Address was superbly proposed by the noble Latin American giants like Brazil are registering 8 per Baroness, Lady Symons of Vernham Dean, and the cent, 9 per cent or double-digit growth. The gap is noble Lord, Lord Patel of Bradford. My noble friend widening all the time while we are standing here. Lord Strathclyde gave a masterly speech. The noble Capital flows, once west to east, are now starting to be Lord, Lord McNally, gave an extremely witty speech, east to west and east to south, as the Minister also except at the end when he got on to Liberal policy, mentioned, with Asia rediscovering not just its economic which is always rather boring and frankly predominance but its cultural, social, educational, incomprehensible. The Leader of the House, the noble technical and scientific prowess after centuries of lagging Baroness, Lady Royall, gave a very brave speech that behind. In Changchun, north-east China, where I was defended a besieged Government as they near their the other day, I was told that next year it will produce end. 10 million cars, many with new electric and hybrid I greatly welcome the arrival of the noble Baroness, technology. That is in excess practically of the whole Lady Kinnock, at the Dispatch Box. I think this is the European or American production. first time that she has spoken at the Dispatch Box on a Those who keep arguing here that our destiny lies in Queen’s Speech and an humble Address. She is, in fact, Europe do not seem to have grasped that our destiny the fifth Member of the Government with whom I will be increasingly shaped outside the European region; have had the honour of debating these humble Addresses for example, our climate future and the whole question over the years. They have indeed, as the noble Lord, of carbon emissions, our financial stability, our energy Lord McNally, said, come and gone with amazing pattern and security, and probably our national security speed. I particularly miss the noble Lord, Lord Malloch- as well. In short, if I have no other message today, it is Brown. I am not sure where he is now, but he was here to remind this House that the action has moved elsewhere. and was very understanding. I think the whole House appreciated his skill, as it will the skill of the noble Our interests now need to be defended as much on Baroness, Lady Kinnock. the shores of the Caspian, or the Horn of Africa, as in I must say straightaway that we on this side of the western Europe and the Atlantic. Thanks to a decade House strongly support the Cluster Munitions of Labour dithering over restarting the nuclear power (Prohibition) Bill. Two noble Lords deserve special programme we now face a major energy gap in the mention. They got it yesterday, and I will mention decade ahead. It is on areas such as Azerbaijan that them again today, for all the work that they have done. future reliable gas supplies for much of Europe’s daily The noble Lord, Lord Dubs, who is in his place, and electricity, and ours, will depend. Continuing to rely my noble friend Lord Elton have struggled very bravely on Russia’s Gazprom to keep our lights on is not a over the years, and the arrival of this Bill, which we all good idea, with too much of Russia run by dubious support, is a mark of and a tribute to their work. methods and utterly lawless interests. Meanwhile, countries There are those who say that there should be continuity such as Canada and Brazil emerge as the great new in foreign policy between one Government and another. energy powers to rival Russia. With a change of government likely in the next few China, which was not mentioned in the gracious months, I say that, on the contrary, this is the time for Speech, is racing ahead economically, in high technology a real change in the whole direction, tone and priorities and in innovation. Chinese currency decisions will of Britain’s international policy. If we are to mend and make or break this country. These matters are not unite our broken and fragmented society here at home, remote; they are central to our welfare. China is pouring it is equally necessary to mend our broken foreign billions into Africa, notably into Sudan, which the policy in the world, thereby giving back to this nation noble Baroness mentioned; into Zimbabwe, which I the sense of purpose, focus for its loyalties and confidence see now is registering economic growth in contrast to in its identity and potential that seem to have evaporated this country; into Zambia and west Africa, as well as 37 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 38

[LORD HOWELL OF GUILDFORD] A basic error of our critics on these matters is to into Burma and Sri Lanka. However, there is scant assume that this debate is about the narrow issue of concern for human rights, which is an omission which Britain’s bilateral relations with Brussels; it is not. It is the Chinese leadership will come to regret. Unfortunately, about the kind of Europe which will best fit—and be that is the position now. fit for purpose—with the new globalised network in India is acquiring British assets and is investing which power has shifted decisively away from the here and in South Africa, which is a reversal of the hegemony of the West; it is about defending and traditional roles of the 19th and 20th centuries. Meanwhile, promoting our own national priorities in best fulfilling destructive anti-westernism, contemptuous of human our role in the new and unfamiliar landscape and in rights, led by would-be nuclear Iran, whose enemies new regions of the world. Of course there will be we have conveniently and short-sightedly removed, is many things on which we will want to work much strongly on the rise. It is spreading like a virulent more effectively with our European neighbours, but fungus out of Afghanistan, to which I will return in a there are many more in this new landscape on which moment, into Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen, which we will need to work with others and we have to ask are all now thriving al-Qaeda bases. We will also have whether our policy is geared up to meet that. The to look in these areas in hunting down al-Qaeda. struggle over the European Union, which will continue, Iran is feeding Hezbollah to undermine Lebanon; it will not be, as I know many on the left hope, between is feeding Hamas and dividing Palestine; it is giving Conservatives and inside the Conservative Party but Mr Netanyahu and the Israelis an excuse to delay the between, on the one hand, the oncoming facts and peace process; and it is fuelling anti-western impulses realities of a network world, with Asia again in the still further. Meanwhile, it does not seem to have been ascendant, and, on the other, the inward-looking, noticed that Turkey is turning away from the West, bloc-iste, overintervening, protectionist mentality of befriending Iran and playing a new Middle Eastern the European integrationist Bourbons. role, which is hardly surprising in view of the cold I turn to Afghanistan, on which we all await shoulder it has had from Europe. Over in Latin America, Mr Obama’s decisions. Whether the three conditions which was once a key area of British interests before for our own increased troop contributions have been we decided to fold our tents and go away, Brazil’s met, I do not know—it was not clear from the Minister’s President Lula da Silva says that the new great powers speech; it would be useful to hear it before the end of no longer need the dollar. China, of course, has been the debate. But what is certainly clear is that the saying the same kind of thing. It is the so-called present strategy is tragically costly of our own soldiers’ BRICs—the Brazils, Russias, Indias, Chinas—and the lives and needs revising. All the talk of exit strategies new power centres such as the Shanghai Co-operation and NATO-authorised withdrawal strategies is not Group, from which, incidentally, America is excluded, helpful either to the overall cause or to our brave which begin to set the new global agenda. Everywhere Armed Forces on the front line. We need to be clearer the post-Cold War settlement, like the original Second about the objectives and leave the exiting and the World War settlement, is crumbling. ending for a later discussion. What have we to offer by way of adjustment to this We must at all costs help Pakistan, a fellow radically shifting scene? The first answer seems to be Commonwealth member, in defending its borders and more of the same. The political class of Europe has resisting incursions and crossings both ways—I am given us the Lisbon treaty and we Conservatives have glad that helping Pakistan was specifically mentioned been roundly criticised for not being too enthusiastic; in the gracious Speech. The central Government in for not going along with the elite in Europe and for Kabul must be upheld, but it is naive to think that questioning whether it really takes Europe and the western democratic models can be neatly grafted on to European Union, to which we are fully committed, in Afghan cultures and structures. Surely this country, the right direction. In particular, we have questioned with its own bitter historical experience, should be the democratic credentials behind the Lisbon undertaking. able to get over that message more clearly to our We have said that if any further power transfers of a American allies and their strategic advisers. constitutional kind are demanded—which is quite likely— The emergence of the G20 in place of the G8 gives there will be a referendum. A Tory Government may some hope that new platforms on which these issues well take the lead in crafting a major and much needed can at last be openly and sensibly discussed may be European reform package, with full voter approval, taking shape, but other reforms of our 20th-century, because that, too, is certainly needed. left-over institutions, with their heavy, 1945 bias, are Contrary to what the Minister said about the Lisbon plainly also overdue. The structure of the permanent texts settling matters, they leave a string of unanswered membership of the UN Security Council is still frozen questions. This is not surprising as the texts are already in 1945 time, although we want to reform it. The seven years old and are hopelessly dated in a completely weightings of the IMF are out of date. NATO is transformed international landscape. Even using the struggling to redefine its role. Many countries are treaty’s highly contentious self-expanding powers—if seeking new and better platforms on which to meet anyone dares to—these so-called passerelle powers and co-operate. It is incomprehensible that we, the will not meet these new needs. The treaty will also give British, have not given more thought and support to us what the French Minister, Mr Lellouche—who developing the vast Commonwealth network of seems to be a little unfortunate with his vocabulary—calls 53 nations, which embraces almost one-third of the the biggest diplomatic service in the world. That is human race and stretches across continents and faiths. what is coming, but I am not sure how we can pay for I was very glad to notice in the Minister’s speech today that when we can hardly afford our own. a distinctly increased emphasis on our Commonwealth 39 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 40 role, which is very welcome, albeit very belated. The with the prospect of head-on collision with international Commonwealth’s membership includes some of the bond markets looming and with our lost purpose, we most dynamic economies on earth, with rising India at are beginning to look like—and outside commentators the centre. So here we have a glimpse of the new are beginning to describe us as—a failed nation. international system. It was at least mentioned in the The global context has changed. Within it we need gracious Speech this year, which is more than was the a new foreign policy direction based on a deep and case last year. intelligent analysis of the world conditions. We need The Commonwealth could become a huge new new government machinery and a new Government to soft-power network which other countries would envy operate it successfully and with confidence and vigour. and many would like to be associated with—as my Our amazing country, built on its amazing and dazzling Japanese friends keep telling me. It would further past, and still full of talent and vitality, deserves defend our strengths and interests in the new global nothing less. landscape. Yet the Foreign and Commonwealth Office forgets about it half the time and has hardly mentioned 11.51 am it in past quarterly or annual reports. We all know that Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, we on these the EU takes a lot of funds—many believe that it is Benches welcome the strength of the Government’s overfunded and wastes millions of pounds—and it commitment to multilateral action, in particular on will cost us even more now with the budget rebate climate change. We also welcome very strongly the having been surrendered, apparently for nothing in Queen’s Speech inclusion of the Bill on cluster bombs, return. Meanwhile, the Commonwealth is ridiculously to which we will give our full support, as we have underfunded. While we cannot increase funds, because supported the work of the noble Lords, Lord Dubs, we do not have any, a switch is certainly overdue. Lord Elton, and others in pushing for that measure. Perhaps the most important and immediate issue of We all recognise that Britain needs a radical shift in all is how to establish the right machinery to push the assumptions that underpin its foreign and security forward the new agenda and to give our very able policies. I share some of the analysis of the noble diplomats the right context in which to work. My Lord, Lord Howell, on the changes in the global noble friend Lord Hurd of Westwell, the distinguished situation around us but not, of course, the conclusions former Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary whom that he draws. Whatever shape of government emerges we all hope to see back in his place shortly, spoke in out of the coming election, under whatever party, we our debate in February last of a “malaise” developing know that we will have to conduct a security review, in Britain’s once much praised foreign service and of a put off until then. That security review will have to hollowing-out of the Foreign Office in London. Both start by redefining Britain’s role in the world. he and many other well qualified observers have expressed The world that we are in, 20 years after the end of deep unease at the extraordinary imbalance that has the Cold War, is one in which the European region is developed between the tight funding of the FCO and no longer at the centre of global politics, and in which the far larger resource allocation for the Department Britain cannot pretend to exercise the global influence for International Development, which now has a budget on its own that it aspired to a generation or two ago. four times that of the Foreign Office. The United States now looks to China, not to Britain A robust foreign policy should both define and or its other European allies, as its most important unite us, yet, instead, with the most optimistic view, partner, in a difficult but unavoidably close relationship. one is left with a dispiriting picture. At a time when we Any new Government will have to work with partners should be forging new alliances with new sources of to protect their interests and pursue their aims; we power and influence that will affect our destiny intimately; cannot hope to achieve much by standing alone. at a time when we should be vigorously promoting My noble friends Lord Lee, Lord Addington and new and more flexible structures regionally for the Lady Falkner spoke passionately on British defence EU, instead of talking of more centralisation; at a and Afghanistan in the defence debate the other week. time when we should be building up the Commonwealth I do not intend to repeat the points they made. I am as the ideal soft power network of the future; at a time very sorry that my noble friends Lord Dykes and when we should be massively strengthening and Lord Ashdown are unfortunately unable to stay with modernising our security forces to meet asymmetric us through today’s debate, but I look forward threats; at a time when we should be redirecting our immensely to the speeches of my noble friends Lady development and aid policies, and thinking clearly Williams, on Afghanistan and nuclear weapons, Lord about whether aid really leads to development in all Chidgey, on Africa—on which I hope that the right cases—which it does not; at a time when we should be reverend Prelate the Bishop of Winchester will also reconstructing our overseas ministries to get a better inform us—and Lady Northover on development and resource balance and upgrading our whole diplomatic on Middle East. resources—at this time, we are doing none of those things. I was amused this morning when the noble Lord, Lord Gilbert, phoned me to apologise that he would Above all, these ambiguities in our world stance be late in arriving because I had guessed several of the divide and confuse us here at home, as both the themes of his speech before he had begun to make it. I Afghan and, I am afraid, the Iraqi involvement have look forward with some trepidation to the speech of divided us, adding to the multicultural mayhem and the noble Lord, Lord Tugendhat, since he once was planting of deep doubt within our society. With our my boss and I have always regarded him with immense staggering public debt and enormous budget deficit, awe since then. 41 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 42

[LORD WALLACE OF SALTAIRE] Minister has made for several years. What a pity he I shall concentrate on the strategic direction of left it so late in his term of office, and spoke to so British foreign policy and the resources that we need small an audience. to commit to them. Most of all, I shall focus on the In 1996-97, our neighbours and allies were waiting European core of British foreign policy, because no hopefully for a change of Government, freed from foreign policy is credible that is not rooted in close what they saw as the Europhobic nightmare that gripped relations with our neighbours. British interests on the declining Conservative Government. This time, most global issues are closer to those of our European they have no such hopes; they see the Europhobes neighbours than to any other potential partners on returning, obsessed with protecting British sovereignty climate change, on the Middle East conflict, on economic from the continental threat. David Cameron’s response and political development in Africa, and on relations to the completion of the ratification of the Lisbon with the Muslim world. We cannot claim to be deeply treaty, two weeks ago, was remarkably sensible and committed to international co-operation if we are practical. He recognised the realities that any new unwilling or unable to work closely with our neighbours. Government will face, and kicked the demands for There is no alternative—to use Mrs Thatcher’s phrase—to renegotiation and referendums as far into the future as a coherent European policy as the foundation of British he could. foreign policy. It is evident that, like Tony Blair before 1997, Liberal Democrats have understood that since the Mr Cameron is not much interested in foreign policy, was signed 50 years ago, and have or at all prepared to negotiate with foreign leaders if argued the case for European co-operation as Labour he comes into office. He has certainly made no effort and the Conservatives have wavered back and forth to build good personal relations with Chancellor Merkel between realism and Europhobia. We do not believe or President Sarkozy, with whom he would have to that the EU is a wonderful creation, or that our work closely and immediately in NATO and G20 meetings, European partners are paragons of political virtue; as well as in European Councils, from the day that he like all political systems, the European regional system became Prime Minister. Yet behind him stand the is an uncomfortable compromise between incompatible passionate Europe-deniers, as irrational as the climate- objectives. We do not pretend that the Lisbon treaty is change-deniers and UN-haters in the American an ideal agreement, but it is the framework within Republican Party. which any British Government will have to work for A new generation of Europhobe parliamentary the foreseeable future if they want to achieve key candidates, hoping to join us at Westminster, has been national objectives. Our party was not particularly brought up to believe the Euromyths they read in the enamoured of the proposal for a president or chairman Daily Telegraph—a newspaper whose passionate of the European Council. We recall that it was accepted patriotism stops short only of its owners paying tax by other Governments as a concession to Britain and within the United Kingdom. Cameron as Prime Minister . Our Labour Government saw it as a useful would thus find himself a latter-day Harold Wilson, intergovernmental check on the influence of small trapped by his party into pretending to renegotiate Governments and the . our relationship with the European Union, knowing This Government are drifting, exhausted like the that this will be a charade: a wasted year of irritating Major Government before them, to the end of their our neighbours to win some symbolic concessions to term. As Prime Minister, Tony Blair—following John satisfy the Benches behind him. I heard him on the Major, when he first became Prime Minister—began “Today” programme this morning, resurrecting the by declaring that he would take Britain, issue of opt-out from the Social Chapter—I assume because that was the symbolic issue that the Europhobes “to the heart of Europe”, used against Mr Major in the Maastricht negotiations but he was rapidly seduced by the glamour of Washington 20 years ago. He hinted that he wants to take us out of and the illusions of the special relationship. He redefined the European arrest warrant and other agreements on British foreign policy as providing a bridge between the pursuit of criminals across national borders, defending Europe and the United States, and ended up going to our sovereignty at the cost of our security. I am very war in Iraq to demonstrate how loyal an ally we were sorry that we do not have the noble Baroness, to whatever Administration was in charge in Washington. Lady Neville-Jones, here today to tell us what she He hoped that Britain would gain influence over American thinks of that. foreign policy in return, but sadly it is clear now that Will we really have to cope with a sovereignty Bill in he failed to influence it to any significant degree. a world where multinational banks and companies In the process, his Government drifted to the margins have locked the UK into tight interdependence? The of European co-operation, and the settled only really sovereign states in the world today are of the British media and of so much of the British Burma and North Korea. The Republican right in the public was left to fester. The failure to reshape the United States rejects the application of all international foreign policy debate within Britain was one of the treaties and conventions as binding on American law, greatest failures of Prime Minister Blair’s time in as right-wingers like Justice Scalia have argued in the office—but then, it was part of his pact with Rupert US Supreme Court. Are the Conservatives really going Murdoch, with foreign policy principles sacrificed to slip down the same anti-international law, nationalist for the favour of a right-wing magnate. I welcomed road? David Miliband’s speech to the IISS two weeks ago Meanwhile, Mr Cameron has left the formulation as the most intelligent and positive exposition of the of Conservative foreign policy largely to William Hague. case for European co-operation which any Labour In the days of William Pitt, the shadow Foreign Secretary’s 43 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 44 political hero, British foreign policy was fundamentally The security and defence review which the Labour about France, the German states—Prussia and — Government have put off until after the election will , the and Russia. Yet, in his last have to take some hard decisions about what defence major foreign policy speech, Mr Hague managed to and diplomatic efforts we need and can afford. The mention France only in passing and and Gray report has made severe criticisms of the current other European states not at all. No mention of Germany? Government’s drift into an unsustainable overhang in I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Howell, recognises their future defence procurement budget, now estimated that, as regards relations with China, Germany has at a massive £35 billion. In a speech at the end of July, much greater trade with, and much greater foreign William Hague referred to earlier, investment in, China than Britain does. As regards “major, conscious acts of strategic shrinkage, such as the withdrawal Brazil, Germany has greater trade with, and greater from East of Suez in 1968”, foreign investment in, Brazil than Great Britain does. only then to deny that we are now in a similar situation The idea that Britain is somehow more global than and, specifically, to reject any strategic shrinkage in Germany and France, and the European Union is Britain’s role. He did not go on to explain how a closed in on itself and protectionist, and not caring Conservative Government would pay for the sharp about the rest of the world, is one of those old increase in defence spending that this would require, -myths recycled in the Mail and the Telegraph to nor for the expansion in FCO staffing and diplomatic which too many Conservatives cling. effort, for which he also called. I hope that these will The other William declared, in 1795, that Britain, all be costed in the Conservative manifesto. Our post- imperial Conservatives, with their nostalgic vision of “must anew commence the salvation of Europe”. Britain as a world power in its own right, would This William appears to prefer to seek the damnation do well to remember what Adam Smith wrote in of Europe, with the No Turning Back group of The Wealth of Nations in 1776 of an earlier Tory Conservative MPs strongly represented in the shadow Government who fostered illusions about the strength Cabinet, cheering him on. President Roosevelt, in his of their position in North America: first inaugural speech, promised that he would pursue “It is surely time that Great Britain should … endeavour to a “good neighbour” policy. The Conservatives wish to accommodate her future views and designs to the real mediocrity pursue a “bad neighbour” policy. Hague speaks with of her circumstances”. real enthusiasm about closer relations with China, and Liberal Democrats reject the nostalgia and Europhobia about a “special relationship” with India; but there is a which infects the national debate on Britain’s international hole at the heart of his speeches in his silence about role. Sixty years after the Second World War we have the countries closer to home. He waxes lyrical about to move on from Churchillian rhetoric and images of working more actively through the Commonwealth—as Britain embattled against the occupied continent. It is the noble Lord, Lord Howell, has done today—urging absurd and contrary to Britain’s national interest that in a speech last February that we should encourage it is acceptable in the British media and at Conservative Rwanda, Japan, Algeria and Yemen to join. I do not gatherings to crack jokes about the French and Germans think that he is following developments in Yemen very that would be considered racist if they were cracked closely. about Jamaicans or Somalis. The great attraction of the Commonwealth to the The weekend before last we marked again our national Conservatives is that it is not the EU. We all understand Remembrance Day, with Britain standing alone. There that the Conservative Party’s foreign policy, like Tony were no contingents from countries that fought with Blair’s, was to follow the Bush Administration wherever us in either world war or since. The Conservative it took us. Well, now the Bush Administration has commitment to the Commonwealth might encourage gone and President Obama has made it clear that he is them, for example, to support the inclusion of Indian interested in partnership with a collective Europe, not contingents. India was the second largest contributor in competitive efforts at special relations by allies with to British imperial forces then and the largest contributor pretensions to wisdom and glorious memories of their to UN peacekeeping forces now. I have met many past. I understand that this message has made British Indians whose parents fought in those forces in uncomfortably clear to recent Conservative visitors to the Second World War. We could invite Dutch and Washington. Danish contingents, since they are fighting and dying Liberal Democrats accept the logic of the IPPR with us in Helmand. The French welcomed British report on UK security strategy, jointly chaired by my units to their 14 July parade five years ago, but I regret noble friend Lord Ashdown and the noble Lord, Lord that our Labour Government have not yet reciprocated. Robertson of Port Ellen. They argued that the United President Sarkozy welcomed Chancellor Merkel to Kingdom must work to build closer European the French commemoration 10 days ago—an act of co-operation within NATO as the only way to maintain statesmanlike reconciliation, of which British politicians American commitment to NATO, which, the new of both other parties still seem incapable. Administration have again made clear, the US sees as My party stands for closer international co-operation, a regional alliance of limited relevance to other global not the embittered defence of national sovereignty. We priorities. Last week’s Spectator assured us, in contrast, stand for shared action on climate change, on the that Liam Fox will take Britain out of the European threat of overpopulation and on the shift to a more Defence Agency, a body set up under a British initiative sustainable world economy; and in meeting the complex after St Malo and led by a British official for its first issues of population displacement, food shortages, five years, but still too contaminated by continental cross-border criminal networks and international terrorist co-operation to overcome Conservative suspicion. groups. That commitment to global co-operation in 45 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 46

[LORD WALLACE OF SALTAIRE] unpredictable in advance. This review at Cabinet the face of global threats has to start with our own Committee level, with Chiefs of Staff input, should set neighbours across the channel. I repeat, as Margaret out and approve the assumptions which would cover Thatcher was very fond of doing: there is no alternative. what might be required of our Armed Forces in the foreseeable future and the proper extent of their 12.08 pm involvement. No major war for 10 years was not an unreasonable assumption in 1921 when it was made, Lord Bramall: My Lords, it is gratifying to have the but it was utterly unrealistic and irresponsible in 1936, opportunity to speak about strategy and defence in when it was still in place, which underlines the need for the mainstream of the gracious Speech, rather than—as continuous updating, which has not been done in the usual—it being shunted off into a short-notice Friday recent past. Only at this stage should it be possible for morning. The subject is of the utmost urgency. Our the Chiefs of Staff and the Ministry of Defence to try defence affairs are in a highly sensitive state and merit to match possible commitments to an appropriate wide debate. On the one hand, we have a shooting war size and shape for our Armed Forces and, most in Afghanistan which has not really been getting anywhere, importantly, to the resources which the country might despite the commitment, devotion to duty and, indeed, be prepared to allot to defence, perhaps in the form of heroism of our Armed Forces. I had a chance to see an insurance policy, as a responsible and consistent the commitment and spirit for myself when I took the proportion of GDP. medal parade of the 2nd Battalion The Rifles on its return from Afghanistan, after suffering 14 soldiers What must be avoided at all costs is the insidious killed and 60 wounded, 14 of them very seriously. underfunding by the Treasury of whatever has been However, they were in magnificent heart at every level decided at the highest political level. This has invariably and there was not a discordant note. Certainly, although degraded expectations, minimised political and improvements have been made, we are not, so far, parliamentary intentions, stored up immense problems making sufficient and significant gains in the areas in for the future and rebounded disastrously not only on which we have set our aims. operational performance but very much on the lives, On the other hand, the Ministry of Defence has an support and welfare of all members of the Armed immense funding problem, brought about largely by Forces. Indeed, an established figure of, say, 3 per cent continuing underfunding of the defence programme of GDP might be the only sure way of curbing Treasury over the past 10 to 15 years or more, which has taken enthusiasm, rather as in the late 1970s and early elements of equipment, materiel and logistic support 1980s we had an agreed NATO target of 3 per cent out of the programme so that, when faced with an growth in real terms out of which the Treasury could intense operational situation, when these very things not wriggle. have become urgently needed, they have had to be Should this review involve, as it should, a truly bought off the peg—helicopters and spare parts are a joined-up foreign and defence policy, or if you like, case in point—with money over and above the defence security policy—with advantage taken of co-operation budget provided by the Treasury, which now, of course, with allies and alliances; due regard given to intelligence wants its money back. Yet the repercussions of now operations after identifying threats; selective containment; adjusting the budget to meet Treasury rules will themselves and helping others with common cause to help themselves, be very serious. Not least it means that while part of rather than, as has been prevalent recently, charging in the Ministry of Defence is doing its best from precious to prolonged interventions with formed bodies of resources to provide our front-line forces with what troops to rearrange the pieces to some alien pattern—it they need to fight the war successfully, another part of may be possible to cut, in particular, the size of the the same department, at Treasury insistence, is having equipment coat for our Armed Forces to be more in to cut those same resources substantially in order to keeping with what Parliament might judge to be our reduce defence spending and squeeze a quart of current political, social and economic cloth, while protecting established requirements into a pint pot of authorised the country’s proper interests and responsibilities. However, resources. This absurd, schizophrenic approach leads maintenance of peace over a prolonged period is to confusion, inevitable cheese paring, with significant bound to require numbers, flexibility and strategic damage to the defence programme as a whole, and is mobility in those Armed Forces. exactly the sort of thing that gives the impression, as Even prior to a full review, it is it is essential to have my noble and gallant friend Lord Guthrie pointed out a rigorous and intellectual analysis of why, when, if recently, that the Government and the ministry’s heart and in what number we want some of the higher-spend is not really in the operations in Afghanistan. items of equipment in the present programme—including As has already been said, what is now required, as any precise successor to Trident—to smooth out the admitted by the Government and promised by Her budget later on. However, if in the immediate future Majesty’s Opposition, should they be elected, is a there is to be substantial squeezing of the current comprehensive Strategic Defence Review, although budget, which is overspent only because of operational for obvious reasons this is not possible before the emergencies, so that the Ministry of Defence can be general election. This would initially identify as far as seen as of now to be living within its means, one of possible Britain’s key international interests: home two things is bound to happen. Either operations and European security; UN Security Council; NATO could not be enhanced and may suffer, with disastrous and natural resources; and identify potential threats, consequences, or the services will be forced—as the not forgetting, I hope, the inherent volatility of the Secretary of State admitted in the debate on the international scene which has so invariably in the Territorial Army in the other place—to reach for past produced responsibilities and challenges utterly the only uncommitted areas of the budget which, 47 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 48 although they may have a less serious effect in the very to go along with a more intelligent carrot in our new short term, would be serious if not disastrous in the strategy. We have no alternative if, at the end of the longer term. Territorial Army training was a good tunnel, we are to see any light that would enable us in case in point. the not-too-distant future to hand over the bulk of Cuts of the magnitude being put forward for the security to indigenous forces with our heads held high Ministry of Defence are also bound to have a debilitating and with a reasonable assurance that al-Qaeda will effect on such things as the Defence Medical Services, continue to be marginalised, as it already has been in which are already grossly under strength, suffering Afghanistan for a considerable time, and then properly cuts in vital clinical training and professional development, contained and dealt with by other means. and excessively reliant on the Reserve Forces and the National Health Service for the handling of battle 12.22 pm casualties. Extra, not reduced, financial resources are required to rebuild them. Inevitably, because of The Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells: My Lords, I accessibility, there will be cuts in accommodation, welcome the Government’s intention to draft legislation some of which is in a shocking state, and welfare in to make binding the spending of 0.7 per cent of general. All of these directly impinge on the covenant, national income on international development from which is so sacrosanct in political eyes and in the eyes 2013. I further welcome the commitment of other of the British people. If any such unpopular cuts are parties to the proposal, particularly with the national then cancelled for political reasons, you can be quite debt at its current level. It reveals the extent to which sure that the Treasury will recoup from somewhere the matter of development and aid is a moral issue. else, and damage the programme. The achievement of the target has been a long-held aspiration, but it is good to note that it follows the The political machinery must be found—perhaps in timetable agreed at the Gleneagles summit in 2005, a much-needed war Cabinet while the crisis in Afghanistan which increased overseas aid funding in 2008 to 0.43 per lasts and before a review takes place—to curb the cent. The aim of the Bill is to put beyond doubt the Treasury in its insistence on its pound of flesh as objective of meeting the United Kingdom’s target in regards defence overspend. Only once have I heard a respect of the millennium development goals. Prime Minister tell the Treasury to back off; on that occasion, the Secretary of State for Defence said that The publication earlier this year of the White Paper, he would resign at once if that did not happen. Let us Eliminating World Poverty: Building Our Common Future, hope that similar robustness and commitment can be has been welcomed by faith communities; as has the found in that department. recognition by the Government of the role of faith communities in the delivery of development aid in Finally, I shall refer to operations in Afghanistan. some of the most challenging situations around the Now that we are there, with a better balanced force world. A recent World Health Organisation study than when we first rushed into Helmand province in estimated that 30 to 70 per cent of healthcare services pursuit of changing and largely unrealistic aims, we in sub-Saharan Africa are provided by faith communities, cannot, for a variety of compelling reasons, just walk with an average commitment of more than 50 per away. Indeed, soldiers back from Afghanistan with cent. whom I have talked recently would be horrified at the prospect; they feel that they have done a really good Considerable challenges still face us. Regrettably, job and have improved things. Our best hope is to even with the delivery of the United Kingdom’s target, support the United Nations, wholly and to the limit of the total eradication of poverty cannot be achieved our resources, in a more enlightened approach, with without concerted international effort, not least from less waffle about democracy and more practical emphasis the United States and members of the European Union. on stability, proper protection of people in vulnerable I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, that areas, better direction and quicker delivery of aid, we cannot go it alone. Recently, the United States perhaps to regional governments, and above all dynamic ambassador to Afghanistan, Karl Eikenberry, expressed diplomacy with meaningful negotiations with the aim frustration at the relative paucity of funding set aside of doing deals to separate hard-core extremists from by the United States for development and reconstruction. moderates. We should also back the central Government Few can doubt that the mosquitoes of terrorism, in any deals that they will surely want to make. genocide and violence against women have been bred in the swamps of poverty, neglect and exploitation. Although many in Pakistan may feel that Western It has been said that when all you have is a hammer, intervention has been part of their problem, the new everything seems like a nail. The past century has strategy that will be required must be, as the Americans witnessed an unprecedented investment of capital in appreciate, within an Af-Pak framework, because the arms, which has been seen in many Western democracies mainstream of international terrorism now lies there as a guarantee of peace. However, while such messages and the maintenance of a secular state is vital to seek to guarantee safety, it needs to be recognised that contain it. safety is not peace and peace is not safety. Peacemaking All this will require a temporary surge in troop is a great venture and, in one sense, it can never be numbers, as military advisers on both sides of the safe. The elimination of poverty and building a common Atlantic have advocated, and will certainly require in future go hand in hand with the challenge of peacemaking, the immediate future our very best shots in terms of which cannot and should not be confused with strategies effort, commitment, resources and the absence of that to guarantee safety. Incidentally, I, too, welcome the financial schizophrenia in the Ministry of Defence Bill to support the United Nations Convention on that I highlighted earlier. There must be a better stick Cluster Munitions. 49 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 50

[THE LORD BISHOP OF BATH AND WELLS] I urge the Government, in the light of their Much has been said in this debate and elsewhere at commitment to the millennium development goals, to the moment about the military options in relation to work ceaselessly with the international community, the situation in Afghanistan. There is talk, in some the World Bank and the IMF—which incidentally I quarters at least, of the possibility of withdrawal. am pleased to observe are less likely to impose economic Afghanistan is the poorest country in the world outside changes on countries than used to be the case—and to Africa. Decades of political instability have contributed resist any attempt at “aid by results”, which always to acutely negative poverty indicators across the country. impacts on the most vulnerable. I am encouraged by More than half the country lives below the poverty this intent and I hope that it goes to fulfilment under line, and DfID has calculated that 40 per cent of whichever Government are in power. Afghans cannot meet their basic food needs. The UNDP reports that about 70 per cent of the population 12.29 pm lacks sustainable access to clean water, and several NGOs have argued recently that there needs to be Lord Dubs: My Lords, I would like to cover three international support for the people of Afghanistan to topics: cluster munitions, Afghanistan and relations assist in the reduction and elimination of poverty in a between this country and the European Union. I country that has endured external intervention, which enthusiastically welcome the Government’s policies has all too often been characterised by primarily military on cluster munitions and the legislation that is to objectives. follow. Many people have been involved in the campaign, which I think has proved that lobbying works. The Prior to the visit by President Obama to Japan Government listened to many voices, when at the time recently, the Japanese Government articulated a strategy there were clearly doubts inside the Ministry of Defence. on the primary need for humanitarian aid and In the end, the Government came to the right conclusion. development assistance. Acknowledging the need for It was very exciting being at the Dublin convention security forces, the report spoke at the same time of when we got news that the Prime Minister had finally some moderate groups that are willing to put down said that Britain would sign up and many other countries their arms in exchange for security assurance and followed. economic independence. Tangible outcomes recognised We can discuss these issues more fully in the debates by the people will be critical in areas of agriculture on the Bill. I say to my noble friend Lady Kinnock and rural development, infrastructure development, that I hope that she has a very long ministerial career and education, health and other basic human needs. but that, if she is in office for many years, she will Such an outlook reflects the view of the agencies on never find such unanimous support for a measure as the ground, not least Christian Aid, which has today she will find on that for cluster munitions. I hope that observed that a comprehensive strategy through a she makes the most of it. The ban will save lives and more substantial and sustainable allocation of resources limbs and it will make the world a better place for into the development and reconstruction sectors oriented many people. There is still the need to influence those to reinforce Afghan institutions must be implemented. countries that did not sign up to the agreement: the It said: United States, Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Israel, just to name the main ones. I hope that the “The political settlement needs to involve a wide range of stakeholders from inside and outside Afghanistan, with only one Government will see as one of its foreign policy objectives precondition: that they uphold the security, dignity and rights of the need to persuade those countries to follow the all Afghans”. example set by 119 countries in Dublin. Christian Aid believes that it is not possible to have I turn to Afghanistan. Along with many other security without development. Members of both Houses, I had the chance to visit Helmand earlier this year for three days at the invitation Faith-based agencies and NGOs have highlighted of the Ministry of Defence. Although I said to the the weakness of quick impact strategies focused on military there, “I hope we will not be getting in your Kabul, while investment at the local level in a substantially way”, I was told, “No, we welcome the fact that you rural environment receives a low priority. Put more are coming to see what the conditions are and to simply, when people are wondering where the next experience, in a limited way, what is happening here”. meal is coming from, when they ate only bread yesterday The visit was confined to Kandahar and Camp Bastion. and may not eat today, animal husbandry and income At that time, the Royal Marines were the main British generation are critical activities. troops. I thought that morale was excellent and I was What is needed now is a humanitarian and impressed by the bonding, the positive views of the development surge—something supported by yesterday’s Army and the other military personnel there at all editorial in the Guardian. I do not think that we can levels. simply pack up and come home. Unless we have been When we asked the troops about equipment, they misled, there is a legitimate need to seek to protect did not criticise. They welcomed some of the new from further acts of terrorism, but there is also a need vehicles, although they pointed out that to go into to ensure that the welfare and safety of Afghan women some of the villages where the streets were narrow and girls are protected from the Taliban, the necessity they needed smaller vehicles, which could not, by of basic health and welfare services, and the education definition, be as well armoured as some of the vehicles of some 6 million children. DfID is of course contributing that did not have to go into the villages. They had to to this programme but the needs are much greater accept that, if they were to patrol the villages in than the most generous individual programme can vehicles, they needed vehicles that were more vulnerable provide for. to the explosive devices. 51 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 52

The only comments that we received about I turn to a point on NATO and Europe. I am a bit equipment—we tested the Army quite a bit on this—was nervous that, in the enthusiasm to expand NATO, we that the helmets and the body armour that the Special may be encouraging the Ukraine and Georgia and Forces had were somewhat better designed than theirs other such countries to join. I would urge caution. In and they looked forward to that equipment being the recent conflict in Georgia, I am not sure that it introduced, as I believe it is. There may be equipment would have been helpful if Georgia had been a member difficulties, but we did not pick up such criticisms. The of NATO, as we would have been dragged into a noble Lord, Lord Astor of Hever, who was there, is conflict that should not have started. I do not know nodding. I was left with a very enthusiastic feeling who was responsible—perhaps both sides were—but it about how well the Army is doing. My noble friend is not sensible for us to say that NATO should expand Lady Taylor organises such visits and my thanks go to into those areas unless we are prepared to live with the her for making it possible. consequences of saying that we back those countries in a conflict, which clearly we would not have done in We discussed the difficulties that the troops have in Georgia. We also ought to be careful about other such a vast area. One of the big military difficulties is countries in the region. that, if they take a village from the Taliban, they do not always have the resources to stay there. The villagers I wish that the EU and our membership of it would say, “Please stay with us because we are vulnerable to stop being the political football of British politics. It the Taliban once the troops have gone”. Although we has been like that for too long. Frankly, unless we have were told about forward positions that were intended the self-confidence as a country to treat the European to hold the ground better, they are clearly quite vulnerable. countries equally and to be prepared to say that we are I could see the difficulties that the troops had in those part of this—not a part of a federal Europe but a part circumstances. of a Europe in which we are willing to co-operate—I fear that there will be more damage to this country We looked at the medical facilities in Camp Bastion and to Britain’s reputation. The Conservative Party and the way in which injured troops are medevaced has got itself into an enormous tangle about this, out to Britain. I thought that the facilities were excellent. although I do not say that the noble Lord, Lord We saw the hospital at Camp Bastion, which has Howell, has. I am not sure what sort of referendum is intensive care units, operating theatres and so on, and being considered for the future. Will we have a referendum we saw two injured Afghans brought in. I do not to agree on ’s accession to the EU or even believe that one could improve on the medical facilities Macedonia’s or Turkey’s accession? Is that the kind of provided for our injured troops and for injured Afghans. thing that the leader of the Conservatives is talking about? I hope that, without a referendum, we can We went out of the camp to watch the Afghan army welcome Croatia and Macedonia into the EU before training, which was good. I am not a military person too long, provided that they meet the requirements of but the training was somewhat desultory—perhaps the various chapters, which I think they are well on the that is all one should expect or perhaps not. We need way to doing. to step up the training both in terms of the number of Afghans being trained and the effort put into it. Sending I would welcome Turkey’s membership provided more troops to train the Afghan army would be a that it meets the standards on human rights, market sensible investment. The only way out of this will be if economy and so on. It is quite a long way off that as the Afghan army is large enough, effective enough and yet—it will have to change articles of its constitution well trained enough to play its part. and so on—but I believe that the Turkish Government recognise that. Surely, from our point of view, the Of course, this is an impossibly difficult problem worst outcome would be to drive Turkey towards for us, the Americans and all the other countries seeing its friends as those countries further east rather involved but, as has been said, if we pull out, there will than those in the west. I believe that, in the fullness of be risks. First, we would certainly destabilise Pakistan, time, Europe with Turkey as a member will be a which would have dire consequences, and, secondly, if stronger Europe and safer for it. al-Qaeda were to be allowed to return to Afghanistan, it would have a secure base from which to resume 12.38 pm attacks on us, on America and indeed on many other Lord Mayhew of Twysden: My Lords, it is a pleasure countries. to follow the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, particularly on Apart from building up the Afghan army, we need what he said about the importance of pressing President to use our maximum influence with President Karzai Karzai to get a grip on the situation concerning corruption. to ensure that corruption is tackled so that the people It seems to me that, at the moment, a great ball of of Afghanistan have more confidence in their regime. anxiety is hanging over this country. In all conscience, No, we cannot impose western-style democracy on the there is plenty to be anxious about. At the centre of country, but we can demand that the levels of corruption that depression lies our military commitment in are significantly reduced. I believe that someone has to Afghanistan, which featured strongly in the powerful talk with the Taliban. President Karzai said that he debate in your Lordships’ House about a fortnight would do that—maybe it is already being done—but ago. It is so important that I do not apologise for the lesson learnt from other conflicts is that one has to returning to it today. It was common ground in that talk to people to see whether there is some way forward debate that we are at war in Afghanistan with the or whether at least some of the people opposed to us Taliban and, through it, with al-Qaeda. It is a war that can be persuaded that there is a better future on our I want to make clear I support; it is a war that we have side than there is with continuing the hostilities. to win. 53 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 54

[LORD MAYHEW OF TWYSDEN] much-to-be-desired development. That leaves their However, support in this country for the war is scepticism about the whole operation unshaken. It all dubious, at best, and the support that it attracts is seems so amorphous and unspecific. repeatedly and understandably shaken by every fatal My suggestion is that, as a first step, the objective military casualty that it, like all other wars, exacts. I should be given a much sharper focus. At the heart of find that worrying, because you cannot sustain a it, a viable democracy must have public confidence modern war if you do not have the support of the that those who hold public office will do their jobs country behind you. I remember a noble and gallant without being bribed and that, for those who proffer Lord saying to me once that the very first thing that bribes to them, there will be no place other than soldiers on active service said to him when he visited prison. I suggest that the first step be to press President them was, “Is the country behind us? Is the country Karzai to put in place an independent structure to behind what we are being asked to do?”. I can well root out bribery—if necessary, with expatriate personnel believe that that is the case, so it is important to to start with. identify why this war increasingly lacks the support There is a well tried example in Hong Kong, where that it needs if we are to win it. I offer your Lordships since 1974 there has been a specialised Independent two principal reasons and a possible remedy, or at Commission against Corruption. It was given from least a signpost towards a remedy. the beginning a clear and simple strategy to implement: The first reason is clear: people, as yet, are simply all pursuable allegations of bribery are to be investigated not persuaded that their lives would be made more with a view to prosecution and the public are to be dangerous in London, Cardiff, Leeds or Liverpool if educated about the evils of corruption and bribery we were to pull out and the Taliban could resume and persuaded to support the fight. I know that Hong control over the whole of Afghanistan. The Government, Kong is not Afghanistan—for example, the rule of law I fear, have signally failed to win acceptance to that. I was already well established there—but can we afford say that with regret, because I am persuaded that the to ignore the results of that exercise? In the 1960s and Government’s case is right, but it is not easy to persuade 1970s, Hong Kong was one of the world’s worst sumps people of that. People ask whether, even if the Taliban of corruption; now, it is seen as one of the world’s were to be driven from Afghanistan—and that is a least corrupt places. At an early stage, the public pretty big if, given the nature of the country—it would began to notice the difference and they approved. not simply transfer to Waziristan. They ask, “What is They moved from expecting a culture of bribery to this we hear about Somalia and other places that it requiring a culture of integrity. The commission is could go to?”. They ask, perhaps unjustifiably, “Is now an untouchable icon. Pakistan really sufficiently to be relied on to help us, If we can secure the establishment of such a or is it more preoccupied with squaring up to India?”. commission with such a remit, an essential foundation I am sure that the Government know that and have for a viable democratic Government will have been answers, but I do not think that they appreciate their laid. If, on the other hand, we try first to put in place need to do much more to convince people of their some comprehensive framework for good governance, case. It will not be easy—not least because Ministers any attempts to install specific reforms are liable to be are so associated nowadays with spin, which is a frustrated by pre-existing and uneradicated corruption. disability that they brought on themselves—but they I hope that when winding up the debate the Minister must publish as much supporting evidence for their will offer some thoughts on that and, in particular, will case as possible. The consequences of failure are so say what significance the Government are inviting great that some exceptional risks with intelligence may President Karzai to attach to the Hong Kong example well be justified. of what can be achieved. The second main reason why support for the war is falling away lies in the perception that our military 12.47 pm commitment in Afghanistan is open-ended. We have been told that we shall be there for as long as it takes Lord Jay of Ewelme: My Lords, I start by echoing to hold the ring, as it were, until a secure and democratic the tribute made by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Afghan Government are in place, capable of defeating Bramall, to our Armed Forces in Afghanistan. In the Taliban and running a decent country. I fear that particular, I pay tribute to the role played by our after the fiasco, or worse, of the recent general election helicopter pilots and crews and those who support in that country, riddled with corruption and invalidated them. I do that for two reasons. First, the joint helicopter by it as it was, people find the fulfilment of that vision base at RAF Benson is just down the road from hard to envisage. Ewelme, and I know well the sacrifices that they have I am sure that the objective is the right one and that made in Iraq and are making in Afghanistan. Secondly, to leave before it is achieved would be—the noble and when there is so much focus on the helicopters that we gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, reflected on this in relation do not have, it is good to remember the bravery, to his visit to the medal parade on his regiment’s sacrifice and professionalism of those who operate the return the other day—to squander the sacrifices that helicopters that we have. have been made and to throw away the progress that However, I focus today more on how we prevent has been made. It would be to court humiliation and future conflicts, conflicts which cause great humanitarian contempt on the world stage. Several noble Lords have crises, damage our interests and may draw our Armed adverted to that. The trouble is that people have not Forces into bitter and difficult wars. It is, alas, only too been given any sufficient idea as to how the Government easy to see where tomorrow’s risks and conflicts may and their allies propose to go about securing that lie, conflicts which would inevitably draw in the 55 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 56 international community and whichever Government Secondly, and moving from what is now still a are in power in the United Kingdom at the time. I shall theory to what is very much practice, I urge the briefly mention three—Sudan, the Democratic Republic Government, and any future Government, to ensure of Congo and Liberia—all of which I have visited in that Britain continues to play, and indeed increases, the past couple of years as chair of the medical aid the active role it plays in present and future conflict charity Merlin, an interest which I declare today. prevention and resolution activities. This means supporting First, I turn to Sudan. There is, rightly, a strong the UN in its peacekeeping activities. On one specific focus on Darfur, where the humanitarian crisis is point, I urge the Government, when the mandate for acute, but there is an equal if not greater danger that the UN peacekeeping force in the Democratic Republic in the referendum planned for 2011 under the terms of of Congo comes up for renewal next month, to work the comprehensive peace agreement between the north to extend it to cover peacebuilding as well as peacemaking and the south, the south decides to secede, the north and to work with the African Union to strengthen the resists and a further bloody war breaks out. That is a capacity of the Congolese army to prevent future really frightening prospect. atrocities in that benighted country. It also means working with the European Union, Conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo is now that the Lisbon treaty has been ratified, and in now focused in the east, in North Kivu province particular with the new high representative, whoever around Goma. Despite the largest UN peacekeeping may be chosen this evening, to put conflict prevention force in the world today, recent fighting there has seen and resolution high on the EU foreign policy agenda— 1,000 civilians killed, 7,000 women raped and more with, I would suggest, Somalia and the Horn of Africa, than 1 million people displaced; and the prospects are Sudan and the Great Lakes as priorities. This does not not encouraging. I greatly look forward to the forthcoming mean limiting our horizons to the EU but using our speech from the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of influence in the EU to further our interests elsewhere. Winchester, which I hope will touch on the Democratic As the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, said a moment or two Republic of Congo. ago, we must have the self-confidence to recognise and I turn, finally, to Liberia. Liberia has a functioning to act on that. I believe very strongly that that is in democracy with an impressive President, Ellen Johnson Britain’s interest, it is in Europe’s interest, and it would Sirleaf. However, the economy and political system be greatly welcomed by the United States. are fragile after 14 years of vicious civil war and the Finally, I urge the Government once again, as many prospects for the elections in two years’ time are of your Lordships have in recent months, to recognise uncertain. Guinea, to the north, is volatile. If that that cuts in our conflict prevention budget are hugely volatility should spread to Liberia, the impact on short-sighted. I know the budgetary pressures. I know Sierra Leone, to the west, where we have invested huge that there have to be priorities and savings. However, amounts over the years, could be disastrous. to cut small sums now that can prevent the expenditure So how can we prevent conflicts in these and other of large sums later if conflict does, alas, break out, areas in the future? My first suggestion, which I have makes no sense at all. Surely that must be a point that made before—and to which I know the Minister, the all government departments, including the Treasury, noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, is sympathetic—is to recognise as common sense. But that is what we are urge the Government to work to make the UN doctrine now doing, alas—wrongly, in my view—in Liberia. of responsibility to protect a reality and not just an The Government must find a way at least to prevent aspiration. Behind the jargon “responsibility to protect” the erosion of our peacekeeping budget from the is a UN principle of huge importance: a pledge by depreciation of the pound, which has a completely world leaders to protect their populations from genocide, arbitrary effect on the activities that we need to carry from ethnic cleansing and from crimes against humanity, out to prevent conflicts in the future. and to give the rest of us the responsibility to ensure I hope that the strategic defence review that will that they do just that. It is of course controversial. It is take place next year whichever Government are in seen by some as an undue interference in the domestic power will ensure enough capacity in our force structure affairs of others and even as a justification for military to enable Britain to play a major role in conflict adventures. However, as the UN Secretary-General prevention and resolution in the years ahead. This is himself recognises, it is not that. It is a doctrine which, an area of great strength for this country thanks to the if widely accepted, could improve governance in some professionalism and reputation of our Armed Forces, pretty dire states by putting pressure on leaders to and we must capitalise on that. It would be good to abide by proper standards and by giving the international have an assurance to that effect from both Front community as a whole the means to exert such pressure. Benches at the end of this debate. Had it been in operation, the genocide in Rwanda, the conflict in Darfur and in Sierra Leone and the civil war in Liberia might at the least have been less likely. 12.55 pm The UN resolution adopted by consensus at the The Lord Bishop of Winchester: My Lords, it is a General Assembly in July was a modest step forward. great pleasure to follow the noble Lord. This summer May I encourage the Government to work with others—in in Kindu in the province of Maniema in Congo I had particular the United States; Canada, whose idea it the privilege, with my wife and the Congolese Anglican was; the EU and likeminded developing countries—to Bishop of Kindu, of spending an hour or more at strengthen the doctrine so that it can play a real role in Merlin’s headquarters in Kindu, Merlin delivering preventing future conflicts? This is an idea whose time medical services, effectively for the province of Maniema, must come. in immensely complex conditions. 57 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 58

[THE LORD BISHOP OF WINCHESTER] be done in the way of security sector reform. Churches A hundred years ago today there was an enormous and local NGOs, supported by external NGOs, are demonstration at the Albert Hall, with people queuing unanimous and clear that the present war in eastern all around the block and the Albert Hall standing Congo, called Kimya II, is a humanitarian disaster. It room only, chaired and organised by the then Archbishop has recently been described by the protection cluster of Canterbury, Randall Davidson, around what was of Congolese NGOs as a massive, desperate scale of then seen as the moral outrage of the situation in humanitarian fallout of the ongoing military operations Congo. Today the Archbishop of Canterbury and my through 2009. other friend, the Anglican Archbishop in Congo, I have talked to Roman Catholic and Anglican Archbishop Isingoma, have published a statement about church leaders in Congo. There is a real danger that the whole situation. There was a celebration and a Her Majesty’s Government’s continuing, though qualified, reiteration of that demonstration at the Albert Hall support for that war, alongside that of MONUC, is this morning, at which I had the privilege of speaking. rapidly leading those most active in protecting the My apologies, therefore, to the Minister and to noble rights of local people to lose confidence in them and Lords for missing the first four minutes of her speech. other western Governments. I think that extremely In the terms of the Archbishop of Canterbury of a few of the 3,000 reinforcements for MONUC promised hundred years ago, the real hideous outrage is that the in October last year are yet in theatre. There is an situation is today as it is, and not only in the east of acute shortage of helicopters and boats in a place the country—statistics on which have just been well where road travel anywhere more than about 10 miles given by the noble Lord. The LRA is rampant in the outside any major centre is appallingly difficult, as I north-east—there have been hideous outrages both at know to the cost of my rattled bones. It is important Christmas and ever since—and in southern Sudan and that other ways are found of bringing peace, other in the Central African Republic. Even recently there than that war. has been a fresh outbreak of conflict in western/north- As far as the needs of the country are concerned, I western Congo, with 21,000 refugees fleeing into the have already mentioned security sector reform. Although northern parts of Congo-Brazzaville—another hideous work is being done by DfID and the Chinese on the state, by the way—in recent weeks. infrastructure, there is a huge amount to be done. Today’s demonstration at the Albert Hall was There is no climate for economic activity. As you fly particularly concerned with the levels of rape in Congo. into Beni, Butembo or Goma, you see an alarming The levels of sexual violence are appalling. To put it number of new houses being built, but my information baldly, where you see the words “sexual violence” from Congolese sources and from Her Majesty’s embassy alongside “rape” it means the things that are done to is that next to none of those new houses is based on women in addition to rape, with the ends of guns, with anything other than corrupt money, the pillage of bayonets, with sticks and so on. At one meeting of minerals and the import of arms. That is very serious. 200 to 250 members of the Mothers’ Union in Kindu We have enormous responsibility. Her Majesty’s in the summer, many of the ladies had walked Government and their European and American partners 200 kilometres to meet their bishop’s wife, their bishop, are the major donors to the DRC, Uganda and Rwanda. my wife and me. There was a second meeting after the I believe that our Government need to give real sustained first and after the lunch where those who had been attention to the range of places that the noble Lord themselves raped joined together to talk further with mentioned, among them the DRC and the Great my wife and the bishop’s wife. Some 50 of those 200 to Lakes region. It was not encouraging that for more 250 women came to that meeting as having themselves than two months in the summer there was no Minister suffered rape and sexual violence. Kindu, as the noble for Africa. We regret the loss of the noble Lord, Lord Lord will know well, is not at the heart of the war area Malloch-Brown, although we welcome the coming of by any means. The situation there, in that respect as in the noble Baroness, but it would be good if there were so much else, is appalling. a Minister for Africa. If we asked the noble Baroness As for the outcome of the transitional process, the to reiterate the range of her responsibilities later today, elections of 2006 and huge inputs of British and other she would not have much time to say anything else aid, the Congolese Government are achieving little or because the Minister for Africa is responsible for a nothing. Outside Kinshasa they are achieving a great deal else as well. considerable reign of terror over anyone who shows In the NGO community, both Congolese and any signs of opposing them. Corruption is pervasive. expatriate, including bodies such as Human Rights As a result of that pervasive corruption, as the noble Watch, Global Witness and a host of others, there is a Lord has again noted, the situation in the national strong sense that there is a crying need for British, army is utterly deplorable. It is, as armies are in so European and American diplomacy to get on the front many other parts of the world, as dangerous as the foot and be more active and incisive. There is a strong rebels to local people. It is deeply and widely engaged sense around in that community that Western diplomacy in the management of the pillage of minerals and the has become limp-wristed in Congo and that there is a making of money for that purpose. It is colluding with need for pressured and clear talk to Rwanda, Uganda those with whom it is fighting; they are letting each and the DRC Government, awash as it is with Chinese other’s vehicles through checkpoints when they are and Indian money. We cannot make peace with the full of minerals or ammunition, as Global Witness continuing war. Peace negotiations must include minerals, has recently publicised. There is a fearful level of weapons and mines if the people are not to be abused impunity at every level for those who are committing further. There is a need for energetic action to find out human rights offences. There is almost everything to who is making the money, who is taking out the 59 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 60 minerals and where they are going. The British for the Palestinians and Israelis, but we should not Government, like other European Governments, have fool ourselves into believing that Iran would suddenly been very slow around the OECD guidelines to pursue drop its fundamentalism and its malign anti-Western British and European companies. In the DRC, Rwanda, stance or that the Taliban and al-Qaeda would cease Uganda, Europe and America there are people running their terrorist activities. That is just too much to the wars and the pillage. We have to bring all that to expect. However, peace between Israel and the Palestinians book if there is to be some possibility of peace in the would be a godsend for both populations, and every land. I hope that we will see a fresh concentration of public opinion poll there shows a majority of both effort on this region and others by the present Government sides strongly in favour of a two-state solution. Indeed and by any Government who succeed them because a reasonably clear idea of what the final two-state 100 years is a long time and the situation has been solution might look like has emerged from a series of appalling all that time. plans over the years—all variations on a theme, to my Many of us on these Benches and elsewhere were mind—but if the outline of a final picture is reasonably very concerned about and, indeed, opposed the 2003 Iraq clear, the process of achieving it has been bedevilled war because we felt that it would lead to a leaching by a series of events, by extremists on both sides, by away of attention and money from places such as the variably committed leaderships and by external pressures Great Lakes region. I believe we have seen that over from Iran and its proxies in Hezbollah and Hamas. the past six years, and we must redress the balance, The two sides are now as far apart as ever. There is whatever the seriousness of events in Afghanistan and considerable concern about settlements on the one Pakistan. hand, and Hamas rearming and splitting from Fatah on the other, among myriad other concerns. 1.06 pm Against this background, it is worth thinking about Lord Turnberg: My Lords, I shall focus my remarks what we in the UK can best do to help them to achieve on the Middle East and on what roles the UK can play the common goal of their peoples. Although we have in that disturbed and disturbing region. I shall deal relatively little influence compared with the USA, first with Iran where the dangers of nuclear arms in there are opportunities for us to help. There are many the hands of dangerous idealists are obvious. Ahmadinejad positive signs of regeneration in the West Bank in has repeatedly made his intentions for Israel clear, and which we can play a role. Unemployment is going they are simply a first step in his plans for the domination down; the GDP is rising by about 7 per cent a year; of the Middle East. However, it is the threat he poses many roadblocks and checkpoints have been removed; to Europe, which is now well within the range of his security is immeasurably better, so the IDF has been ballistic missiles, that should cause us concern. Our able to withdraw from many areas as the Palestinian Government’s position on sanctions is commendable, police—trained with our, and it has to be said Israel’s, but Iran’s cynical disregard for any reasoned approaches help—have taken over; and towns such as Jenin, which gives little hope that it will change direction now. The were previously no-go areas, have started opening up regime’s continuing inhumane treatment of its dissidents for tourism. shows how little it yields to international pressures. Now Mr Fayed has been able to say that he aims to Time is not on our side here, and we should avoid at all have an independent state within a few years with or costs the proposals being leaked from a United Nations without Israel’s agreement. Although this has created body to stop sanctions at a time when we should be consternation in some quarters in Israel, and although encouraging our partners to increase them. it may be doubtful whether he can achieve it, the point In Afghanistan, we seem to be losing heart, as is that he is now confident that the West Bank is many noble Lords have said, as the tragic losses of our increasingly developing the degree of stability, with troops mount up, but the Prime Minister’s commitment security and the rule of law, that makes for a governable and resolve have to be bolstered. The possibility that state. It can certainly put itself in a stronger position the Taliban could take over again, as they surely to negotiate with Israel, which really needs a stronger would if we came out now, is more than worrying but, partner to talk to. more significantly, they are increasingly making their presence felt through their associates over the border The UK, with the EU, can do much to assist the in Pakistan, and the possibility of Pakistan, a nuclear Palestinians in their economic development and in the power, drifting into the hands of associates of the build-up of their own police and security systems. In Taliban is extremely dangerous. One fundamentalist light of that, the boycotts of Israel proposed at the regime in the region with nuclear capabilities is frightening TUC conference recently seem ludicrous, especially enough, but two would be disastrous, so we have to when we hear that the Palestinian trade unions say stay there until such time as a stable, self-sufficient that they would only harm their interests at a time Afghanistan can be achieved and Pakistan can be when they have reached an agreement with Israeli helped to combat its own insurgents. It is often said trade unions on equal pay. How will a boycott of that we cannot win in Afghanistan, and that may be Israel help the Palestinians or the peace process? This true, but we should be able to hold the line until such is the sort of dialogue that we should promote. There time as strengthened local government can take over are many other examples, some of which are supported the responsibility. by our Government and the Israeli Government, many of which are supported by voluntary organisations. On Israel and Palestine, there is a somewhat naive view that if this stand-off could be resolved, all the I shall give a couple of examples. For the first, I other problems of the Middle East would disappear. express my interest as a trustee of a charity that we set Of course, a solution here is highly desirable, not least up last year in my late son’s name. The Daniel Turnberg 61 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 62

[LORD TURNBERG] point, but it takes two to tango. Meanwhile, I can only Travel Fellowship Scheme is supporting 20 medical assume that the informal backdoor discussions, which researchers from the Middle East to spend a few weeks I know go on, have shown that the two sides are so far in the UK learning new techniques, making contact apart that direct talks are currently not feasible. with leading researchers and planning continuing research One remarkable story gives me some hope for the collaboration for when they go home. Of these 20, five future: the terrible story of the paediatrician in Gaza are from the West Bank, seven are from Israel and the who tragically lost three of his children when an rest are from Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon. All are Israeli bomb dropped on his house during the conflict enthusiastic and keen to collaborate. in January. His remaining child and a niece were badly Of course, this is not the only scheme. Another, injured, but they were all shipped out in a helicopter called Building Bridges, has brought two Palestinian that was sent immediately by the Safra hospital in and two Israeli trainee doctors to spend three months Israel that I mentioned earlier. They were treated in in the UK in specialist training. They live together in a intensive care, where they recovered, and were sent flat provided for them, and the first group have become home. That paediatrician returned later and placed a firm friends and colleagues. I know of similar low-key memorial plaque to his three children in the hallway of schemes for undergraduate students. One, at City the Israeli hospital, and he is dedicating some equipment University London, is for about a dozen students from to them there—a remarkable and touching thing to Israel and Palestine, and there are others for lawyers do. Of course, this terrible loss of civilian life is an and journalists, each bringing together people from awful consequence of any war, and one that makes it both sides. so abhorrent. Despite the horror, however, we should gain some faith that reconciliation is possible among There is of course plenty of room into which criticism ordinary people, and it should give us hope that endless of both sides can grow, and each needs to look critically cycles of violence and revenge can be broken. They are at itself, but for us in the UK so much more can be not always inevitable. achieved by helping to build bridges than by destructive boycotts and criticism. The UK Government’s balanced 1.18 pm approach and support for both sides is appreciated, but I fear that the sometimes unbalanced recrimination Baroness Williams of Crosby: My Lords, I hope to that often emanates from the UN and is heaped on return later to the very reasonable and thoughtful Israel simply demeans the UN, reduces its influence in speech by the noble Lord, Lord Turnberg. First, I have Israel and does little in the search for peace. a couple of comments to make about earlier speeches in this debate. I will then make very brief comments Finally, the situation in Gaza is dire. Hamas is on the Middle East’s nuclear weapons and on Afghanistan. firmly in control and vowing death and destruction to One thing concerned me when I heard the moving Israel. The poor population there is stuck between a speeches of the right reverend Prelates the Bishop of rock and a hard place, as neither side seems prepared Bath and Wells and the Bishop of Winchester. Both to blink, at least on the surface. Palestinians in Gaza outlined the scale of disastrous civil war and violence will never forget or forgive their loss of civilian lives, that are occurring even today in much of Africa and and the Israelis cannot forget or forgive the thousands sometimes in south-east Asia. One of the most terrible of rockets that fell on them in a continual storm for so statistics that I have encountered recently came from many years. The question is whether we should focus the very same Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf in Liberia to all our energies on current senses of injustice or on whom the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Winchester putting some of that energy into looking for ways to referred. No less than a quarter of the women and move forward to solutions. girls known to have been raped in that country were Surprisingly, there are interactions and links between children under the age of five. That tells one something the two. Most are unheralded, but we should try to about how desperate the situation is. build on them. When I visited two large children’s When I listened to both right reverend Prelates, I hospitals in Israel recently, I was struck by the number was very concerned about what the UK might do. of Palestinian children from Gaza being treated there. That brings me back to the very eloquent speech by In the Safra Children’s Hospital at Tel Hashomer, the noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, and to my great there are always 30 or 40 children and their families concern about it. She knows very well the issues of from Gaza receiving specialist care, and about half of overseas aid and poverty in the world. She spoke all cardiac surgery at Safra is on Gazan children. A about them with great eloquence and great sincerity, similar story is told at the Schneider Children’s Hospital. but I was very troubled by her reiteration of the Indeed, a visit to any Israeli hospital reveals remarkable Government’s pledge of 0.7 per cent of GDP to overseas numbers of Palestinian patients being treated by Jewish aid, peacekeeping and other matters of that kind. and Arab doctors and nurses. This interaction at the Let us be quite frank about this: 0.7 per cent has grass roots is reflected in joint research activities between been an ambition of this Government since 1997. We Israeli and Palestinian universities in Gaza, almost all have now reached a figure of 0.34 per cent, which, of which are below the radar because of Hamas admittedly, is considerably better than that of many pressure to clamp down on collaboration. countries, including even the United States. But it is It is often said that Israel should talk to Hamas—“talk only half of 0.7 per cent. However, in that period we to your enemies” is the phrase—but there is no evidence lived through times of great prosperity in this country whatever that Hamas will talk to Israel. It is even at and of substantial budget surpluses. Yet we have never loggerheads with Fatah, largely because Fatah does got anywhere near achieving 0.7 per cent. That is why speak to Israel. Clearly it will have to speak at some I ask the Government to take very seriously the pledges 63 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 64 they are making and would even suggest that they There have been some very effective contributions become pledges in law because, frankly, I very much to this in recent years. One of the most profound and doubt whether, given the scale of our financial problems, disturbing was the objection of Peter Galbraith, who that figure will be reached in any foreseeable period. was the American envoy in Afghanistan and a former The one way in which it might be reached—I would ambassador to Croatia. He was inclined to speak with commend this to the Government and would ask them rather too much directness for acceptable diplomacy to look at it much more closely than they have so about the problems of having a central Government far—is the proposal for a Tobin tax on financial and president whose authority we were obliged to transactions, which is now broadly supported by France sustain, and who have been profoundly involved in and Germany. It is the one area where there might be corruption and possibly even in the drug trade. adequate remuneration and revenues to achieve 0.7 per How can we create a domestic situation which cent. For a reason which is beyond me, because of the provides more support from the Afghan people for the nature of the support that this proposal has had, I do attempt to deal with the Taliban? The answer has to lie not understand why our Government do not look in raising regional negotiations between ourselves and much more closely at it. It is estimated in a recent the domestic provincial leaders of Afghanistan in research study by Austria that it would bring in something order to sustain their support for what we are trying to of the order of £700 billion if it extended generally do. In that context, one of the most significant things—I and £90 billion if it was limited only to the United very much agree here with what has been said during Kingdom. this debate—is to try to build rural strength and rural I very much agree with the spokesman for the development in that country. I want to say one more Opposition, the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, important thing about Afghanistan. Given the situation on something that he has often reiterated to the House; in which the legitimacy of the Government is somewhat namely, the rise of Asia and the significant increase in doubted, we need to try to restore some of the trust by the proportion of world wealth and investment that sustaining and extending civic rights. now originates there. However, I thought that he slightly I very much agree with the noble Lord, Lord Howell exaggerated the speed at which all this is happening. It of Guildford, on the danger of a sudden pull-out. We is still true that the European Union is the single would all like to see a big reduction in British troops biggest trading block in the world, the largest source and a timetable for their departure. I agree with those of overseas investment in the world and has the capacity Members of this House who have pointed out that the to have a major impact in its negotiations in the WTO repercussions on Pakistan of a sudden pull-out are so and elsewhere. I share the noble Lord’s analysis that grave that we should not even seriously consider that Asia is rising and that the challenge to that is very possibility. significant. What is the possible logic of accepting Pakistan has now got a weak civil Government, but divisions in Europe when Europe should be bargaining they have at least established an agreed authority over with the rest of the world for outcomes that will be the military. It is a country torn apart by the arguments beneficial to both? It is simply unjustifiable to pursue in Pakistan about whether the Army should be devoted essentially historic arguments about sovereignty in the to trying to root out the Taliban in Waziristan and European Union when this is one of the few instruments elsewhere. I agree strongly that we have to support we have to deal with some of the terrible violence and economic development in Pakistan, but I also feel very poverty in the world. strongly that we have to try to develop Pakistan’s I agree with him very much that the Commonwealth discussion with her neighbours in such a way as to had underused potential. That is true. The Commonwealth leave her less vulnerable than she is today. By her could be much more effective, given strong support neighbours, I again mean, at least in part, India, where from us and others. To give one example: I was recently a relationship between the two, even if it is only a in Islamabad and had the opportunity of talking to hotline, is of the most crucial importance. some of the leading foreign affairs figures in Pakistan. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Turnberg, on One could not help but grieve about why the his moderate and sensible approach to the Middle Commonwealth has not been able to build any kind of East, but I shall add one doubt. In the past few days, effective bridge of discussion between Pakistan and we have had the response of Fatah and of Mr Erekat, India. These two great countries are still far too absorbed its chief negotiator, to the very close to outright rejection in their enmity with one another and one of whose of an attempt to stop the settlements by the present survival—I repeat, survival—is, as many of us know, Government of Israel. It is absolutely essential to have at stake. some movement by the Government of Israel on I shall be brief on Afghanistan, because we have settlements, and on reducing the demand that they had some very distinguished speeches, including that make on land and aquifers. With every day that passes, of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew of I increasingly doubt the possibility of a two-nation Twysden. We have to live with the difficulties that have solution. A nation cannot be built on as little as is now arisen from what I believe has long been a profoundly being left of the West Bank and Gaza in terms of mistaken policy, which dates back to the Administration economic strength. We now have to face up to the fact of President George Bush; that is, the belief that in that time is running out very fast indeed. some peculiar way Afghanistan can be a centrally It is important to say that the almost outright governed and administered state. It never has been. rejection by Mr Netanyahu’s Government of the original All central Governments in Afghanistan have sooner request from President Obama for a complete stop in or later to come to terms with the regional and sometimes settlements was not resolved by Secretary of State almost feudal lords of the various provinces. Mrs Hillary Clinton’s rather extraordinary comment 65 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 66

[BARONESS WILLIAMS OF CROSBY] I urge Her Majesty’s Government and those responsible that Mr Netanyahu made a generous proposal. It was for European Union policy to approach the Middle nothing of the kind. It was no proposal at all. Given East with a proper and necessary sense of humility. the situation where the United States, for reasons I do We should recognise that our actions—and, indeed, not fully understand, seems to be unable to take any our inaction—have led to the wasted years of a so-called initiative with regard to the settlements, the EU has a peace process, with no real peace and at least three great responsibility as the major financier of the Palestinian brutal and devastating wars, beginning in 2003. Since Authority, the major supporter of police reform in the Oslo agreements we have squandered millions of Gaza and, particularly, the West Bank, to intervene pounds in propping up doubtful regimes, only to see and to go directly into the issues of the Middle East the buildings we had paid for destroyed and damaged. and say, “As the substantial financier of the Palestinian One lesson we might well learn is not to set unrealistic Authority, we believe we should be heard on the issue preconditions. My arguments in several previous debates of how we can get some kind of constructive talks in your Lordships’ House about including the Hamas going on this matter. We cannot accept the scale of the movement now have, I am glad to say, the support of rejection of the settlement issue by the present Government many far more eminent people. of Israel”. Our new humility should include a sympathetic My final point relates to nuclear weapons. The road understanding of both Israel and Palestine. Israelis towards the abolition of nuclear weapons, to which we remember centuries of persecution, largely in European are all—including the United States, the United Kingdom states, culminating in the Nazi attempt at genocide. and others—now broadly committed, lies through They recall how nearly they were defeated in 1947-48 three pathways. The first is a ratification of the successor and how many wars they have had to fight since then. to START, which runs out at the end of this month. They say, with some justification, that when they The Americans and Russians have extended their pulled out of Lebanon and Gaza, all they got was acceptance of the existing verification of the treaty, rockets in return. They fear that similar rockets could but discussions on the proposal for substantial reductions be fired at them from the West Bank. will now have to take place at the beginning of the coming year. United Kingdom support for that is On the other side, we have to understand the pent-up badly needed and is widely offered but, frankly, much anger and frustration of Palestinians over their sufferings. turns on whether the United States Congress will feel The Naqba, or disaster, uprooted Palestinians, who able to ratify such a treaty. now number millions of refugees and exiles scattered through the Middle East and beyond. Gaza endured The second path, beyond that, is a treaty for a 49 years of occupation, four years of isolation from comprehensive nuclear test ban. However, there are the rest of the world and blockade, and one month of substantial questions about whether in its present devastating attack last winter. The West Bank has mood the United States Senate would be willing to suffered 42 years of hostile military occupation, with ratify such a treaty. The third path is the review of the ever increasing enemy colonisation and very limited nuclear proliferation treaty in the spring of next year. freedom of movement. Some 9,000 Palestinians are now The two treaties to which I have referred are vital to in Israeli jails, including 21 members of their elected the success of that conference. To be successful, it Parliament, not to speak of women, youths and children. would have to accept the additional protocols and accept much tougher limits on what can be done by Both sides long, however, for real peace, bringing countries such as Iran and North Korea. The only with it mutual security, recognition and legitimacy. I possible way of achieving that is to follow the route of was recently at a mixed joint conference in Jerusalem the existing treaties that reduce the scale of nuclear which produced some hopeful and useful ideas. The weapons. first encourages both sides to think beyond their own Although I vastly admire President Obama, we in narrow national interests. Could they find and adopt this country tend to underestimate the scale of the transcendent goals in ways similar to the behaviour of difficulty he confronts in obtaining the domestic support the French, Germans and others following the Second that he needs. Some good will has gone in bitter World War, avoiding revenge but building the future? arguments over health issues and health reforms and, If this happened, the whole region would be transformed. therefore, the support that we can give to the American Such a change is urgent, if only because of the huge Government depends on how we, as a country, can proportion of the total population who are now under help to persuade the Senate and others that these are 25 and often unemployed. crucial steps on the path towards world peace, and Both Israel and Palestine, in fact or potentially, that world peace is now within our possibilities but is contain important national minorities. Israel has well still very far from being certain. over 1 million Palestinian citizens. Within Palestine, Israeli economic, rather than ideological, migrants 1.32 pm could remain in the future where they now are, provided Lord Hylton: My Lords, I am pleased to follow the that they accept Palestinian jurisdiction. Each of the noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Crosby, although I two states could come to see its national minority not cannot compete with her global sweep. I shall focus, as a liability but rather as an asset. This would, of essentially, on Israel and Palestine. I appreciated the course, depend on both sides complying with best speech of the noble Lord, Lord Turnberg, who brought international practice. some good news of modest improvements in the West There is much talk and uncertainty about the Bank and encouraging words about medical co-operation. Palestinian elections due in January next year. Could We welcome them very much. these be used most constructively to elect a new Palestinian 67 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 68

Government rather than a Palestinian Authority, or of being under Soviet rule were able to choose their the PLO, or the Palestinian National Council? own future. The country that I know best, where I was The religious leaders in Israel and Palestine have a en poste in the 1960s, is . Its self-identity is distinct contribution to make towards real peace. More that of the spearhead of the West against the East, of than 10 years ago, the noble and right Reverend Lord, a proud country which has survived for 1,000 years Lord Carey, helped both sets of leaders to come with its own language in a Slav sea and which did not together for the first time. They then jointly produced choose communism—it was where the Red Army had the admirable Alexandria Declaration. It is sad that reached at the end of the war. Hungary now is able to there has been so little follow up to this. As religious flourish and we rejoiced with it and those other countries people can be found among the hardliners on both as the dam burst and it was able to resume not just sides, there is plenty of scope for including the extremes business as usual but business on a better basis, being and consolidating the moderates. absorbed into the system of western alliances. There Unilateral measures, taken by all sides and parties, were therefore profound changes, so that not only could also be helpful. These are most likely to be parts of the Soviet empire but parts of the Soviet constructive if they are carefully co-ordinated. Alas, Union joined the European Union: the Baltic states this has seldom been the case in the past. I have in are now part of it and of NATO. mind particularly the release of captives and detainees We think less of the effects of the fall of the Berlin and the building of a transport link to connect Gaza Wall on the third world. I attended a lecture earlier and the West Bank. Mutual security and intelligence this week by former President FW de Klerk, who sharing is another area where small beginnings have argued that, because the communist menace appeared been made but much more is needed. less strong to the Afrikaner minority in apartheid The last important multilateral peace conference South Africa, they were able to make changes and was held in Madrid in 1991. There are those who concessions that might otherwise not have been possible. argue that the Arab League peace initiative, now seven On the other hand, the fall of the wall has had some years old, could form the basis for a new conference. If adverse effects for Africa. Pre-1989, there was superpower perchance a regional framework could in that way be competition for votes of African states in the General agreed, it might become a little less difficult to work Assembly of the UN. That competition has gone and, two states of Israel and Palestine into such a framework. to some extent, Africa has become marginalised. I was Such an approach may require security guarantees, delighted that my noble friend was able to indicate peacekeeping forces and effective inward investment. that the commitment to providing 0.7 per cent of GNI The resulting gains for Israel, Palestine, the region in development aid remains valid and strong for this and, indirectly, for Europe and the whole world are so Government. However, there came a time when I great as to be barely describable. recall even Richard Dowden, one of the few eminent Our policy, as I suggested earlier, should be humble commentators on Africa in this country, saying that but realistic, understanding of basic needs and interests, perhaps our only reason for being there was moral. and patiently working to include all parties in conflict Well, as we say in this Parliament, since then an resolution rather than in unsatisfying conflict management. amendment has been moved. Others have mentioned Time, as has been said earlier today, is not on anyone’s the competition for resources with China. We saw the side. recent offer of $6 billion of credit from the People’s Republic of China to Africa, a reflection of China’s willingness to move from its own region in the search 1.41 pm for resources and, as the noble Lord, Lord Howell, Lord Anderson of Swansea: My Lords, I shall avoid said, of the way in which economic power has moved the temptation in these unfocused debates of embarking from west to east. on a Cook’s tour around the world in eight minutes. I It is probably also true not only that the West has shall try instead to focus on certain events of the past suffered an economic decline as against the East but few weeks and draw perhaps some general conclusions also that, over the past weeks, we have seen some signs from them. of a political decline. There have been a number of My starting point is 8 and 9 November 1989 and adverse changes over that period. Let us think, for the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall. I example, of Afghanistan. There were clear signs of recall—this is a corrective to those who like to forecast public opinion in this country moving against our the future—speaking six months beforehand to a German commitment to that war; there was uncertainty as to woman MP whom I know well. She told me that who the enemy is and how one measures success in the Germany would never be reunified in her lifetime. Afghan war. Perhaps one needs, as the noble Lord Well, she is still alive and Germany is reunified and we said, a sense of history, of the bloody nose that this have seen the most remarkable positive results since. country received in the 1840s in the First Afghan War. My own judgment is that historians will see the One needs also to read again one’s Kipling about the overall effects of 1989 as more significant than those Great Game in the 1880s. One needs perhaps to revisit of 9/11. The fall of the wall ended the post-war the bleeding wound that President Gorbachev’s Soviet division of Europe. Perhaps we have not yet caught up Union got in its latter days. One needs to look at the with those changes in the political structures needed old adage: one cannot buy the Afghans; one can only to support it, but they have had a most marked effect. rent them. Indeed, one sees various press commentaries It was the end of the Soviet Union, the end of the now that state that we are indeed bribing certain forces Soviet empire and almost the end of Soviet ideology. because of the fragmentation and turbulence of that Proud nations that had the untidy, post-war interruption country. 69 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 70

[LORD ANDERSON OF SWANSEA] with the likely result that a Benelux federalist will have I am ready to accept the Prime Minister’s assertion the position instead of a Briton who shares our views—an that it is in our interests to help the other countries Atlanticist and someone who would walk tall, a general that may serve as nests for al-Qaeda activity—for and not a secretary. That is the perverse effect of what example, Somalia and Yemen. It is some indication of the Opposition have done. the increasing linkage between domestic and foreign Furthermore, the pledges that have been made on a policy that the training camps in the Federally sovereignty Bill, the referendum and opt-outs tell one Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan and in Afghanistan more about the internal party management than about train people who will appear on our streets. I am realistic prospects. There is unlikely to be any serious prepared to accept that, however corrupt and fragmented prospect for further institutional change over at least that country is and whatever void exists at a national the next decade. If one wished, for example, to add to level, it is in our interests to bolster as best we can the one of the accession treaties something in relation to Afghan regime. I accept that the likely effect on Pakistan, one of the several opt-outs being suggested, can one a nuclear-armed country, of a withdrawal and the imagine the horror that it would cause on the continent? boost that any precipitate withdrawal would give to It would be totally contrary to the declared policy of worldwide jihadists are very important considerations. seeking to encourage expansion to Croatia and the Therefore, I was pleased by what the Prime Minister Balkan countries. Is one going to sacrifice Croatia and said in his Lord Mayor’s banquet speech, which showed on the altar of trying to get our view on these a realistic appraisal of the need not only to satisfy public opt-outs? We know, realistically, that the opt-outs opinion in this country but also to have a clearer depend on the support of all the other countries, strategy. What he outlined there, I very much applaud. which will not be coming. It is tilting at windmills and In the Middle East, we hoped that the new Obama chasing dragons and is not worth a row of beans. The Administration would adopt a more nuanced and real tragedy is that, just to appease the Europhobes, balanced role. I was in Egypt just before the Cairo any possible Conservative Government would feel the speech, when there were great expectations. Alas, those need to throw them fish from time to time, as they will expectations have been somewhat dimmed as a result ask for more, which can only make our position worse of the recent retreat by the Obama Administration on in relation to our partners. That said, those pledges settlements. It is surely clear that there can be no peace mean very little. Any attempt to demand their fulfilment between the Palestinians and Israelis without a two-state could only make worse our position on the continent. solution and that there cannot be a two-state solution I end on a more positive note. There was no attempt while the areas occupied by the Israelis are criss-crossed in Mr Cameron’s speech to rewrite the ESDP, which is by all these settlements and Bantustans. It looks as if one of the great and increasing success stories of the Prime Minister Netanyahu has won a short-term tactical European Union. Perhaps that was the result of the victory. Alas, the longer-term consequences may be lecturing of Mr Hague when he recently went to sadder for Israel—and I yield to no one in my admiration Washington. There was also no mention of the for Israel, its proud democracy and rule of law and the Commonwealth. I yield to no one in being a proponent fact that it faces an existential threat from Iran as well of the Commonwealth; I have chaired the Commonwealth as the fact that the 1 million Palestinians living in Parliamentary Association for four years. I do not Israel certainly do not want to be absorbed into a want to make the party point about how the Conservative Palestinian Authority, as they show very clearly. But Government in 1986 almost destroyed the Commonwealth the consequences of that retreat on the settlements over South Africa. I was at Marlborough House at against pressure from Prime Minister Netanyahu have that time and I remember it well—and the tirade in the been not only the projected resignation of President Conservative press against the developing Commonwealth. Abbas but new pressures for a Palestinian state and No, I do not make that point. But this is clearly a pipe anger in the Arab world. The Arab peace initiative of dream. Those who go to CHOGM in Trinidad and 2002, which may need a clearer road map attached to Tobago next week will not find any appetite for this it, has now been pushed aside and the politics of hope new grouping, which is not really a pro-Commonwealth in Israel and Palestine, as the events of the past few suggestion but a desperate attempt to find an alternative weeks show, have yielded to the politics of management to the only realistic position on the European Union. of a crisis to prevent it from getting worse. That said, I find much to commend in Mr Cameron’s speech, which will be seen historically as a rejection of On the European Union and the speech given by not only the referendum but other referendums and a Mr Cameron, clearly the background was unfortunate. major recognition of where our future lies. Historians For example, there was the withdrawal from the will see it as a major step, though a step only, on the mainstream centre-right family.Anyone who understands road to reality. the European Union understands the importance of the political families and the need to be part of one’s 1.57 pm natural family if one is to pull one’s weight, rather Viscount Eccles: My Lords, my purpose is narrow. I than creating some mishmash of funny groups with look forward to the promised draft international little or no attachment to core Europe. There was also, development legislation, alas, from the shadow Foreign Minister the attack on “to make binding my government’s commitment to spend 0.7 per Mr Blair’s prospects of becoming the president of the cent of gross national income on international development new grouping. There can be many cogent arguments by 2013”. against Mr Blair, but I think that there was consternation I wonder why the draftsman slipped in the accurate on the continent about the Opposition in this country word “spend”. Surely, to be consistent, the word should seeking to stab in the back our own prime candidate, be “invest”. Everything else is investment, is it not? 71 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 72

I declare an interest because I was the Commonwealth will often only think twice about starting a fight when Development Corporation’s chief executive for some they have something to lose. In summary, our policies nine years, ending in 1994, in the days when CDC was look forward to the often distant days of top-down of continuing and almost always friendly interest to success when we know that a degree of prosperity is a Parliament. We were sometimes confused with the necessary condition for the rule of law and its acceptance. Overseas Food Corporation and groundnuts, but the In addition, we politicise development and so slow it OFC was summarily dissolved. CDC continues to this down by demanding solutions to the issues that trouble day and is still wholly owned by the taxpayer and a us, rather than by identifying economic opportunities public corporation. and then, in partnership, exploiting them to improve the lot of people. Indeed, our eventual success or I shall return to CDC later, but first I refer to two otherwise in Afghanistan will, in my opinion, turn on very differing economic achievements over the past our ability to improve the lot of the Afghan people. 50 years, in Ghana and Malaysia. These two are now a We urgently need to identify economic opportunities classic case of dramatically different performance, and to overcome the obstacles to their development, about which I was first asked in Accra long ago, in the including security. I fear that DfID is almost completely early 1990s. A group of businessmen challenged me to unsuited to the Afghan challenge. explain how it was that Ghana and Malaysia started at independence with the same income per head, 10 million Your Lordships will not be surprised to hear that I people each, a comparable stock of natural resources, now come back to CDC, which used to find economic similar education systems and the legacy of British opportunities in places where, and at times when, administration and law yet, after 30 years, Malaysians there was not market capital available. CDC went into were achieving 10 times the Ghanaian income per these gaps to fund companies where the risk- reward head. I did my best but, whatever the explanation prospects looked unattractive to quoted market players, then, this startling disparity has continued. Now, with and where the local skills base was not yet sufficiently 25 million people each and with progress in each, developed. In order to offset this high-risk profile, Malaysia is a middle income country. While Ghana is CDC received modest injections of capital in the form well ahead of much of sub-Saharan Africa, its income of long-term Treasury loans on favourable interest per head is still only one-tenth of Malaysia’s. Twenty-eight rates. There is no such capability available to DfID per cent of Ghanaians are below the one-dollar-a-day today. Indeed, and most unfortunately, CDC is the poverty line, but only 5 per cent of Malays. subject of controversy and misunderstanding, as the recent frustrating and frustrated dialogue between I could offer an explanation, but it would be long the Public Accounts Committee, DfID and CDC clearly and complex, following in the footsteps of Lord Bauer shows. Only Private Eye comes out a carping winner rather than those of Bob Geldof. No relevant comments from this sad dialogue. The frustration is understandable; can be found in the Africa Commission’s report of no parliamentary committee likes to find itself questioning 2005, signed by both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, a wholly owned public body that has negotiated its nor in DfID’s 2009 White Paper, so I conclude that I way out of parliamentary accountability. am out of joint with the times, because I still believe in private sector economic development as the best and The history of its escape is revealing. In 1997, fastest way out of absolute poverty. Yet even if I am somebody advised Tony Blair to turn CDC into a wrong, we need DfID’s explanation of the two completely public-private partnership, whatever that was meant different experiences of Ghana and Malaysia—or will to mean or to achieve. The public-private partnership the Minister provide the explanation today? It has written into the manifesto never happened. In its already been the subject of discussion within Government. mistaken efforts to conform, CDC severely damaged its balance sheet. By 2004, it seemed to the Government Given the belief that economic development, primarily that something—anything—needed to be done. It was but not exclusively driven by the private sector, is the then, by agreeing to CDC becoming a fund of funds in surest way to achieve sustainable reductions in poverty, an attempt to clear up the mess made by the failed why does it not come top of the list of DfID’s objectives? 1997 policy, that CDC escaped from its accountability For some reason, DfID believes that it cannot be and DfID was excused from a relationship that it directly involved, for example in contributing to the found embarrassing. acquisition or even in the provision of the necessary foreign capital. Aspects of that leverage between public In effect, CDC now subcontracts its developmental and private money were referred to by the noble role to third-party fund managers. It only takes Baroness, Lady Kinnock. No poor country is likely to responsibility for those with whom it places its money, find the capital it needs from its own savings—not on and then depends upon the financial results of the any acceptable timescale, at least—yet all that DfID fund managers who deploy that money. CDC has thus believes we can do is to enable for some deferred given up its responsibility for what happens on the future, pursuing good governance when we know it is ground. It manages no assets itself, so nothing that it very likely that people will govern themselves better says or somewhat petulantly protests in its reply to the when they are already better off. Indeed, I seem to Public Accounts Committee will gainsay the way in remember that we were, from time to time, very critical which the parliamentary chain of accountability is of Malaysian governance as they progressed to middle broken, or gainsay the very indirect relationship between income. CDC and our aid programme. The Government’s handling of its relationship with CDC has been a A second DfID priority is emphasising climate disgrace. DfID appears pleased to be shot of it, yet change to people who have no electricity. A third is CDC is still 100 per cent publicly owned. What now looking for less conflict, when we know that people drives CDC is for others to say, but it is not the British 73 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 74

[VISCOUNT ECCLES] Dubs, mentioned. It is not a country simply to be public policy in sub-Saharan Africa, or in the more taxed and governed in the European sense. It is a maze difficult parts of south-east Asia such as Papua New of districts and local councils to be empowered over Guinea or the troubled Solomon Islands. time by a mixture of aid, civil society and devolved I believe it is high time that Parliament was told authority. Central and provincial governments can how the Government defend their stewardship of that only rule and resolve conflicts by means of this subtle public corporation. They should answer the question: network of checks and balances. The noble Baroness, where does hands-on economic development feature Lady Williams, rightly mentioned the importance of in DfID’s forward plans? At present, we seem to be the regional neighbours. overwhelmed by an inward-looking political agenda, The loya jirgas and the shuras have ruled Afghanistan with little time and space left for the vital task of for centuries and we should respect and use these as economic development needed to lift the lost billion the principal channels of decision-making. The Foreign out of absolute poverty. Secretary finally said as much two days ago, when outlining the new exit strategy. It is, in fact, the only 2.08 pm way out. The Earl of Sandwich: My Lords, the noble Viscount The war in Afghanistan is not being won, nor is it has opened a fascinating debate which I hope will be being lost. However, the propaganda war is being lost, continued, if not today then in the future. If I might both in the UK and on the disputed borders where begin with Afghanistan, our casualties there and the foreign forces will always be seen as the enemy. The tragedies of every family that has suffered remain perception on our TV screens is rather like that of a uppermost in our minds. Coalition forces, especially Beau Geste desert war that we can never win. What we the British, US and Canadian soldiers in Helmand, never see in news bulletins is a national “hearts and have felt exponential losses this year; many people, me minds” campaign in which Afghans are seen as our included, want to see at least a partial withdrawal friends, although this is apparently part of our from the front line and a rethink of our present Government’s new strategy. strategy. With the help of NGOs and others, we can still We must put our own losses in perspective too. The succeed in that “hearts and minds” campaign. DfID is Afghan people have suffered; their soldiers and police supporting a range of initiatives, such as business have borne increasing casualties, and we should remember links, microfinance and other employment schemes. that the number of civilians killed has also risen What is it doing to publicise these? The National sharply. Most of these civilians die from suicide or Solidarity Programme, created by the Afghan Government roadside bombings but, according to UNAMA, two in 2003, is a major success story which has achieved out of five were killed by coalition and Afghan forces results, through thousands of local councils, in road last year. building, education and reconstruction of all kinds. I return to the reasons for our invasion in 2001. The Hardly anyone in the UK has heard of it. Why do we Government constantly emphasise terrorism and not make more of this achievement with the help of homeland security, but I also remember the genuine the media? It has had problems, like many projects. public sympathy for the victims of the Taliban and the The new-style community development councils, as determination to rebuild what it had destroyed. Under channels of funding, have sometimes confused the the Bonn agreement of 2001, we solemnly pledged shuras with imposed western values, but this is inevitable. billions of pounds to reconstruct the country. We have The NSP is learning from its mistakes and will emerge done a lot of it: cities, transport and infrastructure well from a World Bank evaluation. have been rebuilt. Critics of the war and the recent On international development and climate change, elections tend to downplay the achievements of the I welcome the Government’s renewed commitment. It Karzai Government and aid agencies in restoring power, is encouraging to see the UK rising in the charts of water, food supplies, health centres and schools where official development assistance. Within the EU, which there were none. The vast majority of Afghans, however provides two-thirds of all aid, the UK is now ahead of dissatisfied with progress and however difficult it has France and Germany in aid per capita, although still been to restore good governance and the rule of law, well behind Scandinavian countries. I also welcome recognise that the international community is there to this Government’s increased emphasis on aid effectiveness help them. through the non-governmental organisations. The mistakes we have made, in my view, were to However, the latest World Food Summit has pointed attempt to rebuild a centralised state and to focus to a recent increase in the numbers of the malnourished, democracy on an elected central Government. How to around 1 billion. This is more than there were at the did our political leaders think that they could reinvent first summit in the mid 1970s, and close to one in five one nation so quickly from so many different loyalties? of the world’s population. The scandal of these figures In Britain, we tend to think back to King John and the is not explained by the available food or distribution, Barons, but it is not a question of a few Barons. There or even by biofuels—which have presented a new are warlords over every mountain in Afghanistan. problem—but by the drastic fall in OECD investment Terrorism itself is highly localised and subcontracted. in agriculture. Can the Minister say whether the UK, Only a complex system of alliances and financial at least, is pulling its weight in this sector and urging inducements, such as we have tried in Helmand, would other countries to do the same? reap rewards—and then only on a temporary basis. The UK is now the leader among EU states in The coalition plainly does not have, and should not global health spending. This is significant when climate have, the capacity for this, as the noble Lord, Lord change is likely to have such a negative impact on 75 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 76 world health. Seen more positively, the urgency of the SADC review of Zimbabwe that has failed to measures to combat climate change will provide a influence the behaviour of President Mugabe in any much-needed catalyst for the millennium development strong way. goals that are looming up for 2015. It is imperative I will come back to NePAD later. I will now talk a that the poorest countries are helped now to prepare little about progress towards meeting the millennium for the effects of climate change. Insidious temperature development goals. Senior African politicians are now rises over the coming decades will bring increases in very objective in their assessment of the effectiveness such diseases as malaria, encephalitis and dengue of, and progress with, the MDGs. For example, Graça fever if nothing is done. Machel, the former Prime Minister of Mozambique, Higher temperatures, while only inconvenient and speaking in Cape Town just last month, pointed out even beneficial to temperate climates, can mean much that the international financial crisis and global recession more severe floods and droughts, food and water has impacted more severely on Africa than on other shortages in tropical regions, as well as a lack of parts of the world, not least because some donor shelter and sanitation, all leading to higher mortality countries have cut their funding targets in response. I rates. Can the Minister spell out how the climate note our Government’s commitment not to do that change budget allocated to developing countries will and to reach the 0.7 per cent of GDP target. mean actual changes on the ground, meeting more It is also unrealistic to think that all 53 countries in millennium development targets, and will not all be Africa will reach the MDGs on time. African politicians swallowed up by their Governments’ energy-saving are determined that the failure of some countries and low carbon schemes, essential though those are in should not be seen as the failure of the continent. industrial zones? Through the peer-review mechanism, they note that Small farmers in arid lands are highly efficient, as many Parliaments are struggling. Parliaments in Africa has been said, because they have to be, both in land are under-resourced and unable to hold their Executives use and in conserving precious soil and water. Our to account. They need support to develop monitoring climate change campaign would seem to be almost capacity over national resources. They need, as irrelevant to them, as they are doing it all the time. We Mrs Machel puts it, “to be more assertive” over the need to pay much more attention to Africa and how it distribution of their national resources by their Executives. copes with climate change. While its farmers’ carbon Mrs Machel begs the question: how many African footprint is generally light, its foresters and scavengers countries are now allocating 10 per cent of their cause perhaps one-third of the world’s deforestation, resources to agriculture? How many are now allocating much of it timber for export. 15 per cent to health, as promised in the MDGs? It is Rich countries can earn carbon credits through clear that the MDG target of halving the number forestry projects under the clean development mechanism living on a dollar a day in sub-Saharan Africa is and the reduced emissions schemes. However, according unlikely to be met. Cutting aid budgets in the midst of to one leading expert, Camilla Toulmin of the a global recession adds to the African crisis of 200 million International Institute of Environment and Development, people going hungry every day and 33 million children there is hardly any take-up of these projects. Again, I being undernourished. hope that the Minister can provide an answer, at least Achieving the MDG on poverty reduction is estimated in relation to the UK’s performances in this critical to be postponed by at least three years now, over arena of climate change. which time 400,000 more children will die. To quote Mrs Machel again, 2.18 pm “aid means saving lives, it’s not a luxury”. Lord Chidgey: My Lords, I am, as always, delighted The question for the Government must be: have they to follow the noble Earl in this debate, particularly his got the balance right between aid and foreign policy final theme of issues in Africa. Significant aspects of spending? We know that the DfID budget is set at the UK’s foreign policy are to some degree influenced something like £1.2 billion. The FCO’s budget is about by the state of affairs on the African continent. It is £33.5 million for bilateral programmes for political worth looking at whether DfID and the FCO’s resources, stability and good governance in the longer term. Is in particular, are being effectively deployed in those that right? areas. I declare my interests as vice-chair of the All-Party This brings me to progress with parliamentary Group on Africa, a council member for AWEPA— strengthening and democratic stability. Recently, several European Parliamentarians for Africa— and the chair African presidents have changed—or are seeking to of the advisory board of the Commonwealth change—constitutional term limits that prevent them parliamentary studies unit. seeking a third term in office. Examples include Uganda, Looking at key developments in Africa over the Tunisia, Algeria and Cameroon. In Uganda, President past few years, such as the advent of the NePAD Museveni’s long rule has brought a degree of stability initiative that also developed the African peer review and peace, and a developing multi-political party mechanism, it is clear that that peer review, which was Parliament. There are nevertheless warning signs that devised and overseen by the African Union, has yet to this stability could be undermined—for example, the be established root and branch. Countries that have September riots in Kampala that left 27 people dead volunteered for peer review have tended to be from the and more than 100 arrested, and led to the forced traditionally democratic African states. There is therefore closure of at least five radio stations. That was followed a view, particularly among African nations, that it has by claims of the abduction and torture of senior become something of a toothless exercise, much like journalists. 77 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 78

[LORD CHIDGEY] double the volumes recorded for tax purposes—a clear There is a sense among humanitarian organisations case for international corruption investigation, if ever such as War Child that there is now a gap between the I heard one. phasing out of emergency funding in Uganda and the With regard to relations between Rwanda and the lead into development funding. Human Rights Watch DRC, we should all welcome a meeting in August notes that there has been a lack of a cohesive response between Mr Kagame and Mr Kabila, but there are still from the donor community to the events that took concerns over Rwanda’s alleged support of rebel groups place in Kampala in September. It is against this in the DRC only last year. We note that Rwanda has background that the amendment of the presidential formally applied to join the Commonwealth; that term limits from two to three in some countries is not application will be considered by a Commonwealth seen as supportive of free and fair elections, but is, in summit in 2010. Do the Government agree that before Uganda in 2011, essential to retaining stability and Rwanda is accepted into the Commonwealth, we must peace in the region. Have the Government had any ensure that the criteria of Commonwealth core values discussions concerning the changes that are taking of human rights, democracy and democratic institutions place in Uganda’s presidential term limits? in an open and free society are first met? We work very closely with the Ugandan Other noble Lords have mentioned climate change; Government. I would be interested to know what the I will comment briefly on Africa and climate change. Government’s reaction has been to, for example, Kofi Annan made the point when addressing the the reappointment of the National Electoral Global Editors’ Forum last month that it is a tragic Commission, which has taken place in spite of irony that the countries which have done the least to accusations of fraud in the Ugandan court. What cause climate change are those which are suffering, plans do our Government have to provide technical or and will suffer, most from its impacts. Although Africa financial support to the conduct of the 2011 elections accounts for only 3 per cent of total global carbon scheduled in Uganda? DfID is supporting and emissions, it must now bear the brunt of climate training counterterrorism operations in Uganda, but change. The estimated financial impact could be as Human Rights Watch and others have meanwhile high as $130 billion in Africa. The impacts can already been highlighting allegations of repeated state- be seen in devastating floods in Burkina Faso and the sanctioned human rights abuses. What action are the droughts that have killed thousands of livestock in Government taking to support and develop reforms northern Kenya. However, African countries will barely through current bilateral training programmes? be represented at the Copenhagen conference next Looking at counterterrorism in the Great Lakes month. Do the Government agree that African nations region, the Lord’s Resistance Army remains a threat must have a more prominent role in future international to regional stability in northern Uganda, southern Sudan, climate talks? eastern Democratic Republic of Congo and parts of Finally, I turn to Africa and China, which other the Central African Republic. Civilian protection must noble Lords have commented on. China is heading to remain a critical priority. In this context, there is overtake the EU as Africa’s biggest trading partner. currently no coherent international plan to apprehend China is already beginning to exert political influence and remove the LRA from the Great Lakes region. and power, akin to that of the western imperial powers However, the United States Congress has before it in past centuries, since Chinese companies frequently draft legislation entitled the LRA Disarmament and plan against 30-year timescales as a minimum. This North Uganda Recovery Act. More than 150 members can be incredibly problematic for western nations, of Congress have signed up to it. Would the Government which put democracy, the rule of law and human consider making commitments similar to those outlined rights into the mix of international trading agreements. in the draft US Act, which many consider to be an excellent model to follow? In that context, and with The worrying case in point is the Chinese position MONUC’s mandate due to be renewed shortly, do in a growing clash over diplomatic and trade relations the Government support extending this mandate to with Guinea in west Africa. Guinea is central in the include the apprehension of Joseph Kony and other region’s trafficking of cocaine and other narcotics to LRA commanders? Europe. A common initiative agreed between United Nations agencies and other west African coastal The year 2010 will be crucial for the DRC and countries to curb this trade has already been Rwanda. The DRC will probably hold local elections compromised by elements of the ruling military in 2010, with national elections in 2011. Respect for junta in Guinea engaged in this very narcotics the rule of law and democratic institutions will need trafficking. In reaction to the presidential guard to be embedded to help those elections run publicly raping and butchering more than 150 protestors smoothly. MONUC is doing a good job, but it needs in Conakry, the EU and the AU have imposed economic to prepare for transition by focusing on institution- and financial sanctions, but their effects are being building, the role of Parliament, the judiciary and so diluted by China’s decision to sign a $7 billion mining forth. What role are our Government planning for the deal with Guinea, the world’s largest exporter of United Kingdom in institutional strengthening and bauxite. The question for the West, and our Government, electoral registration? Resource exploitation and is whether China is straying into short-termism by corruption are the underlying sources of conflict in striking secret deals with corrupt Governments and the DRC, as confirmed by DfID’s own report and will discover that such investments are high risk over studies into exports over several years. In some cases it time, and in any case do little to benefit Africa’s was found that the export of minerals was more than development. 79 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 80

The whole point of NePAD, the new economic just unemployed farmers who need the $10 a day they plan for Africa, is to create sound investment criteria receive for fighting. Many could be turned provided through transparency, the rule of law, democracy and we could guarantee them a better life and escape from human rights and to break the cycle of corruption, poverty. Aid and new business which would bring despotism and instability which marred the post-colonial prosperity are a possibility. Afghanistan’s economy is period and made inward investment into Africa too growing at 16 per cent, admittedly from a very low high a risk. China, it seems, has to learn from the past base. We can succeed, as difficult as it may seem, but mistakes that most African nations are steadfastly we cannot go on dithering; that must be understood. trying to overcome. We must also ensure that the money and aid that we provide are delivered to the people to whom we 2.30 pm intend them to go. We cannot lack direction and succeed. The risks of quitting too soon are huge and Lord Guthrie of Craigiebank: My Lords, I declare should not be taken. We dare not abandon Afghanistan. two interests as a non-executive director and adviser I suspect that if we do not succeed in Afghanistan, we to a defence company and as the colonel of a regiment will be faced with very great problems in the years to serving in Afghanistan. The Prime Minister is absolutely come. right to stress the importance of succeeding in Afghanistan, and to be disturbed by opinion polls A defence review is necessary. This will be very here and in other NATO countries. The prospect of difficult. I agree with the remarks on defence funding Pakistan collapsing—that is a real possibility, with an by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, who extremist, failed, radicalised Afghanistan slipping into commanded me on a number of occasions in my war with India—and destabilising the region is a real career. The Ministry of Defence is vastly overspent possibility.Pakistan is a far more important and politically and faces large payments. Very difficult decisions will dangerous country than Afghanistan. War in the have to be taken. A review should be foreign policy-led. subcontinent would damage the whole world. We need to ask ourselves what we want to do in the The reasons for our being in Afghanistan go far world. It will be a very difficult time for the department, beyond keeping the streets of Britain safe. The Prime which has vested interests, and some cherished, nice- Minister is also right to promote a conference about to-have projects must go, but if we try to do everything Afghanistan, but it is key, although difficult, to engage and to maintain forces and equipment to cover every the major countries in the region, not just NATO eventuality, however unlikely, we will end up being countries, as well as Pakistan, India, Iran, Russia and good at nothing. possibly China, all of which have a perhaps even greater long-term interest than we do in seeing a stable 2.37 pm Afghanistan. We cannot be in the region for years at our current levels spending the money that we do, and Lord Clinton-Davis: I am delighted that the noble the Prime Minister is right to recognise this. There is, Lord, Lord Williamson, is present, for several reasons: however, a real problem if one fixes and announces first, I have always had a high regard for him; and, dates for an exit strategy. That may be seen as necessary secondly, he served the EC with great distinction for to reassure public opinion at home but greatly assists 10 years. the Taliban’s planning and timing. We may not have I was very impressed with the thoroughness of the the time but it probably does, and can wait if we give it European Union Committee’s work, which reflected adate. extraordinary expertise. Few parliaments in the EU The military can only do so much and progress will could have carried out this vital task in such a way. As depend on our commitments, the United States’ a former , I am an unashamed commitments, the determination of the Afghan supporter of the concept of the EU. Of course, like all Government and of a large number of the Afghan political institutions, it has made mistakes, but its people themselves. The drive and commitment of a overall accomplishments have been impressive. France cross-Whitehall committee, chaired by the Prime Minister, and Germany, once at each other’s throats, now work will be crucial and needs to be very much more effective in harmony. Smaller states enhance their status and and active than arrangements have been to date. Our preserve their interests by co-operating purposefully servicemen and women in the front line need to know in the enterprise. The EU is a major player on the that the Government and people are for them and that world stage. I only wish that the UK had been rather the Government are resolute. They do not want to see more engaged. While we are an important member, we dithering—other noble Lords have used that word could have done much more to advance the EU’s today—over the 500 who are still awaiting an order to salient work. go. That does not do any good. It seems to me that it The Opposition—not all of them, of course—are would be so easy to send those 500. It should not be prepared to put all this at risk. Frustrated by the EU’s linked to the 40,000 American soldiers who are waiting unanimity over the Lisbon treaty, they ally themselves to go. with some highly dubious political groups and engage It is not right, as many claim, that Afghanistan is a in imprecise and dangerous policies vis-à-vis the EU. hopeless case and always has been. There have been At least we know where we are with UKIP, and that is long periods when progress was made and the country too dire to contemplate. flourished. General McChrystal, who I know well and In the new Parliament, the Conservatives—I hope is a very able United States commander, believes that still in opposition—could be even more undermining. 70 per cent of the Taliban can be swayed to support If elected, where would they stand in respect of initiatives the Government. Many young Taliban fighters are proposed by the Commission and endorsed by the 81 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 82

[LORD CLINTON-DAVIS] Some Members will have noted that at the ? Save for those few issues which Remembrance Sunday ceremony the eighth high they have exempted, the Conservatives seem to relish commissioner to lay a wreath was from Sri Lanka, the idea of Britain being sidelined and regarded as representing the eighth country in terms of losses in irrelevant. Nothing said by the noble Lord, Lord the Second World War—Ceylon as it was then. Not Howell, today weakens that point. His honeyed words many Members of your Lordships’ House will know cannot hide the bankruptcy of the Conservative Party’s that when the vote was taken in the United Nations ideas about Europe. criticising the United Kingdom over our relief of the The Conservative Opposition charge that the Falklands, only nine countries voted for us. I had the Commission is undemocratic. That hardly chimes with privilege to speak to the then Sri Lankan President, reality. Every proposal and amendment is closely JR Jayewardene, and make a personal appeal on behalf examined by civil servants within the Commission of the All-Party Group for Sri Lanka to support the and by Commissioners, most of whom have been United Kingdom. It was not just my words that led to politicians in their own countries. Some have served that support, but perhaps they added a little bit. That with enormous distinction. Moreover, a Commissioner country stuck its neck out in support of this country, will invariably be accessible to those with wide against the wishes of much of Asia, because our experience of the subject being considered—including friendship goes very deep. Ministers and those accountable to them. Even then, a There needs to be an understanding of the results proposal as amended will again be scrutinised by the of 25 years of terrorism in any country, particularly Commission, interested parties and the European Sri Lanka. The last war took place when I was a small Parliament. Few legislatures undertake that degree boy, and it lasted for only five, not 25, years. Specific of oversight, and nothing has been said about that challenges, particularly regarding the resettlement of important point by the Conservative Opposition refugees and building up that economy, need to be today or at any time. Is all this, therefore, to be lost addressed. GSP Plus is a specific issue; it is an arrangement sight of? How practicable is the approach of the to allow apparel and other products from Sri Lanka to Conservative Opposition? To believe that Britain can enter the EU at an advantage. Two days ago, a decision stand alone or select whatever it pleases is simply was taken in principle to remove it and, in effect, fanciful. As my noble friend Lady Kinnock put it in impose sanctions on Sri Lanka at this very difficult this debate: time. Many, not just me, will want to question why “There is no future in diplomacy by tantrum”. 200,000, mainly female, workers from the villages—a That is highly amusing, but also deadly serious. good proportion of whom are Tamils—should be thrown into unemployment, with another 1 million An enforceable agreement on climate change is affected. possible at Copenhagen, but is regrettably unlikely. However, we should heed the advice of the vast majority I wish to highlight certain points that I hope that of eminent scientists who advise us. If agreement at the Government will take on board and reflect on. At Copenhagen is elusive, we shall have to reach an the end of the recent war—a successful war in terms of accord at another venue in the very near future. There Sri Lanka—284,000 refugees voluntarily went into is no escape from that situation. If, by chance, the refugee camps. They had been used as human shields. sceptics are right—which is improbable—what will They had been pushed from the west of Sri Lanka to have been lost? Lots of time and money. However, if the far east. Many had been shot by the Tamil Tigers they are wrong, which is more than a possibility, we while trying to escape. The war finished towards the risk much more—the future of our earth. end of May. As of 9 November, when I received the latest figures, 126,000 people had been resettled in Other issues of magnitude were mentioned by my their homes and about 30,000 were with families and noble friend at the beginning of this debate: world other relations. That leaves 147,000 people. They are poverty and disease, nuclear dangers and many others. leaving at a rate of approximately 3,000 to 5,000 a She is right; we cannot tackle these alone. We need week. Sixty-eight UN and international NGOs have allies, particularly in the EU, but beyond. Our opinion access to the remaining camps; 173 media personnel within the EU can help add weight to a successful have been in and out of them. DfID has been there, outcome on many significant issues. But if we stand along with representatives of the UN and, most outside and simply complain or behave as a disgruntled importantly and recently, Members of Parliament from observer, we will forfeit the influential situation that Tamil Nadu. Tamil Nadu has a very close relationship we should occupy—and which we are attempting to with the Tamil communities in northern Sri Lanka. If do today. anybody was going to be highly critical, it would be the MPs from Tamil Nadu: but they came voluntarily, 2.45 pm their report was produced by them alone and it said Lord Naseby: My Lords, I wish to speak exclusively that they were comfortable with what was being done on Sri Lanka, mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady and hugely encouraged by the rate at which people Kinnock. I have been involved in that country for were being resettled. 46 years and for the whole of my political life of There remains the challenge of 2.5 million landmines, 35 years. There has never been a period under both but reasonable progress is being made. The UK, through Labour and Conservative Governments when relationships HALO and others, has helped. However, we are not were as difficult as they are. I wish to make an appeal high in the league of help-providers despite our long for a new start and a completely new look at the historic relationship. Now there is a major programme relationship between our two countries. of infrastructure building. 83 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 84

As we look at our relationship with Sri Lanka, it is 2.56 pm strange that, having sold guns to the Sri Lankan army, we did not supply ammunition—like the Belgians not Baroness Flather: My Lords, I was listening so supplying ammunition for our guns in the first Gulf carefully to the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, talking War, in which my son served. Secondly, we did not about Sri Lanka that I forgot that it was my turn to support the application for an IMF loan. Of course it speak. Please forgive me. went through, because others recognised that if you I listened carefully to the opening speeches. There are going to rebuild an economy you must have the was little in them about development, although the help of the IMF. I do not take these things personally, subjects that we are discussing today are vast and, but I have made recommendations to Her Majesty’ clearly, more important and pressing things were being Government after all the visits that I have made. Sadly, spoken about. However, we heard that 10 million none of my recommendations has been accepted. We children die before they attain their sixth birthday. My also had the difficult episode involving the special figure is 9 million, although it is possible that it has envoy. However, that is all in the past. gone up to 10 million, and it will keep going up. We Now we turn to the current issue. The resettlement heard that many millions of children do not go to is going well; de-mining is going pretty well; but school. It is important to speak about children, but we overhanging it all is the cloud of GSP Plus. Two days do not speak about their mothers and, if we do not ago, a decision was made by the European Union speak about and help their mothers, the children will Committee—not the Council of Ministers—that the not achieve life and education. removal of GSP Plus should proceed. In about two There is an old and well known cliché that when months, Her Majesty’s Ministers will have to say whether you help a woman you help a family, but when you or not that should continue. We in Parliament have help a man you help one person. Unfortunately, in just been visited by the Catholic Archbishop of Colombo, developing countries this is one of the truest clichés. leading Buddhist religious leaders and leading Hindu Not only do you help the family when you help a and Muslim leaders. They left a memorandum with woman, you help the whole community. If you help Her Majesty’s Government, and with me. The final six women, they change a village. I have seen the paragraph states: results of helping women in poor countries and in “As responsible religious leaders, we are saddened by the fact villages. It is important for us now to start thinking that our European friends with whom Sri Lanka has always about how change can be brought about. I believe that cherished such excellent and cordial bilateral relations, have given a larger than necessary sense of attention to certain groups with change can be brought about only by helping women vested interests who are intent on destroying this country and to become part of the mainstream. In Africa and on pushing it once again into an abyss of political and economic the Indian subcontinent, women are not part of the confusion and chaos. Therefore, we appeal to our friends to stand mainstream; they are not perceived as wage earners by us at this hour and to help us guide our leaders and people and part of the workforce. In the Far Eastern countries towards a greater sense of spiritual and material progress. We that have made such huge economic strides, all the appeal to you to help us in this matter and thank you for any consideration given to this very deserving request”. women are in the workforce. I have spoken to many people from Singapore and Malaysia. They say that The removal of GSP Plus would—this is no having women in the workforce doubles it, so they can exaggeration—throw out of work 200,000 mainly young, make much quicker economic gains. I am a firm female workers in the countryside, rather than in believer in that. Colombo, many of whom are Tamils, not to mention the other people involved in that trade, who probably Recently, the APPG on Population, Development number 1 million. If they are to be disadvantaged and and Reproductive Health launched a booklet called thrown out of work, what is the purpose? How does Euromapping. It is a useful little booklet that sets out that help bring together the communities in Sri Lanka? which countries in Europe give how much aid and for Others will say that there are still political problems; what. I am pleased to say that we come out well. The but the Government know as well as I do that elections noble Lord, Lord Howell, said—I think that I heard are coming, and it is for the new Sri Lankan Government him right—that he was sorry that more money was to settle the political dimensions. being spent on aid than on the Foreign Office. However, that is one of the good things that we do and I hope There are encouraging signs for all of us who are in that we will keep doing it even if there is a change of contact with Sri Lanka. The Tamil community and Government. It is very sad to think that it might MPs are talking to the President, to the governing change. Such aid is needed and is important. party and to opposition parties. There are seeds of hope, and a general election should resolve some Whatever aid is going to developing countries, aid issues. However, if the EU proceeds to remove GSP from European Union countries is dropping per head Plus, all Sri Lankans of any creed and in all elements of population. Very sadly, it has dropped by 5 per cent of society will increasingly wonder whether they should in the past year. There are 200 million women who not look to China, Iran and those parts of the world cannot access family planning; tackling that is one of that have helped them to defeat the Tamil Tigers. I the most basic things that we can do to change women’s appeal to Her Majesty’s Government to open a new lives. One woman dies from childbirth every minute of chapter and to help Sri Lanka in its hour of need every day and each year more than 66,000 die from rather than kicking the people when they are down. unsafe abortions. Thinking that we cannot do much They helped us at the time of the Falklands when we about that should make us feel very contrite, but the were down. Surely it is not too much for us to help fact is that we can. I quote the famous statement from them now. Professor Fathalla: 85 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 86

[BARONESS FLATHER] down, we have to think about population and, again, “Women are not dying because of diseases we cannot treat ... focus on women. If we focus our aid on women, we they are dying because societies have yet to make the decision that will make far greater gains than in any other way. their lives are worth saving”. That is a very important statement for all of us who consider these issues. 3.05 pm I have just come back from Addis Ababa, where I Lord Luce: My Lords, I am pleased that the Queen’s attended an international parliamentarians’ conference Speech gave a special reference to the Commonwealth on population and development. When we produced this year, its 60th anniversary. I wish to focus my the communiqué at the end, the Saudis and Sudanese remarks on the Commonwealth, although I shall end made us take out the words “sexual”and “reproductive” with something that I consider to be a grave shame from the phrases “women’s sexual health”and “women’s and a blot on Britain’s copybook—the treatment of reproductive health”. They would accept only the the Chagos islanders. term “women’s health”. One wonders what would The other day, someone who has had tremendous have happened if the rulers of the universe had to go experience of the Commonwealth over the past 60 years through what women go through. Would they have said to me that we—not only as a Government but as said, “Take out the words ‘sexual’ and ‘reproductive’ a people—should see it as an opportunity. However, from ‘men’s sexual and reproductive health’”? We have the sad thing about the Commonwealth is that we to think about what women aged between 15 and 45 have not seen it as an opportunity; we have turned our go through in this world. If men had to put up with backs on it and have been extremely unimaginative that, the situation would be very different. about it. The Commonwealth is a gathering of Most of the parliamentarians also complained that 53 countries with masses of different faiths—Muslims, the Catholic churches were a great hindrance to family Christians, Hindus and so on. It is made up of the planning, with some Latin American countries being rich and the poor, the developed and the less very specific about the problems that they were facing. developed. Yet the Pope goes to southern Africa and says, “Don’t I am very glad that we are now carrying out a major use condoms”. We are not living in year zero; we are review of what role we should play within the living in the 21st century. Perhaps we should ask our Commonwealth. That review is being led by the Royal former Prime Minister, who is a very important man, Commonwealth Society and I am pleased to learn that to have a word with the Pope. This is just not on. next week it will produce for the Commonwealth There is a lot of talk about climate change. In 1950, Heads of Government Meeting in Trinidad its proposals there were 2.6 billion people on this planet. Today, on how we can revitalise the Commonwealth. It will there are 6.8 billion and there are likely to be 3 billion focus on the principles of the Commonwealth and more by 2050. If that does not cause climate change, I how we can promote its values; it will focus on the do not know what will. I think that it is a question not Commonwealth’s priorities and how it can give added just of emissions but of people’s bodies. Furthermore, value to other institutions and organisations; and, with so many poor people in the world—we must finally, it will focus on the heart of the Commonwealth, remember that it always comes down to the poor which is the people in it, and how, for example, the countries—environmental degradation with the cutting younger generation’s imagination can be sparked and down of trees and the use of wood for cooking goes how that generation can be encouraged to do business on all the time. We cannot keep talking about climate and develop its country and so on. I believe that the change only in terms of emissions and saying, “You report will help to galvanise us into rethinking how we must do this and you must do that”; we have to think look at the Commonwealth. about helping certain countries to stop the increase in As for the meeting next week, the Minister may their populations. I am not talking about the way in want to say something at the end of the debate. In which China has done it, although such a move would Trinidad, our priorities will obviously have to be on be good. We cannot do that, so we have to make climate change in view of the forthcoming summit in family planning available to women and help them to Copenhagen, but we should remember that 50 per learn how to use the system. That would make a cent of the Commonwealth’s population is under the difference for all of us. age of 25. I hope that there will be a lot of emphasis In Addis Ababa, I also went to a hospital which on how we can engage the interest of youth in the deals with fistula. The cruelties perpetrated on women Commonwealth. are unbelievable. I do not have time to tell the House The third matter on which I hope we shall spend about them and your Lordships would probably not our time—something on which the Commonwealth is want to hear about them as that might make them strong—is governance issues. If we do not do that, no unhappy. A woman or girl may develop fistula if she one else will. The Commonwealth is well equipped to cannot give birth and needs a caesarean or other help, deal with that, together with peace-building and but she then leaks urine and faeces and is thrown out. reconstruction. The other area to which I hope we will Some women just lie on the streets, as is certainly the give party next week is development aid and trade, case in northern Nigeria. However, this hospital takes and I am glad that my noble friend Lady Flather everyone who comes to it; sometimes women walk for spoke strongly about it. At the same time, I hope that two or three days to get there. within the Commonwealth we can take a hard-headed It is time that we focused on women. In order for view about aid criteria. In recent months, a number of the MDGs to be successful, we have to focus on books and studies have been produced by Africans, as women. If we want the rate of climate change to slow well as Europeans, on the subject of development aid. 87 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 88

The current plea of many Africans is, “For goodness’ that we provide go to the whole Commonwealth and sake, don’t make us aid-dependent”. The criteria of not just to the developing part of it? It might be worth aid must be to help a country to develop so that it can reminding ourselves that we have had an alumni of stand on its own and not have to depend on aid for the 16,000 over the past 50 years: 50 have reached Cabinet whole of its future. Having been, a long time ago, the office; 50 have become supreme court judges, high last British administrator in Kenya, I have the feeling court judges or ambassadors; 80 have been university that over these many decades we have been giving vice-chancellors; and, believe it or not, one has been a conscience money, whereas we need to give money for European Commissioner. I believe that that demonstrates realistic aims so as to help our friends in Africa to the enormous value of the scheme. I hope that the develop themselves. I hope that the Commonwealth Minister will be able to say something positive about will focus on that. that. I hope that it will also focus on an issue that has Lastly, we must do something about a shameful come up a lot today—China. On the one hand, one problem that has been on our shoulders in Britain for can only welcome the dramatic expansion of trade the past 40 years. In 1964, Harold Wilson’s Government and investment by China in Africa, as it is good news, had an exchange of letters with the United States and but, on the other hand, it is not good news if the issues a decision was taken to set up Diego Garcia. My of governance in those African countries are ignored. quarrel is not with that decision at all; for all I know, One only has to look at the Sudan to see how fuelling the existence of Diego Garcia as a military base has them with more revenue through the purchase of oil made a major contribution to the security of the brings about the growth of militias and the dangers of world. However, what brings shame on the reputation civil war. One of the great strengths of the Commonwealth of this country is that 1,500 Chagos islanders, living in is to focus on those kinds of issues. It should embark Diego Garcia, many of whose families had been there on a dialogue with China to try to persuade it that it is for more than one generation and some for three or important to recognise and have a framework of four generations, were expelled from the Chagos accountability in those matters. archipelago. It was an absolute disgrace. When, in 1982, as a Minister of State, I arrived in In terms of development, I next want to comment Mauritius to find a demonstration at the airport, I did on the diasporas, particularly the African diaspora. not even know of the existence of these people. They Since the Second World War, 20 million Africans have were Chagos islanders who had been expelled and come to the western world. Living in the western who were living in great poverty in the islands. I world, they have developed great professional skills in managed to get them £4 million but I am ashamed to a wide range of areas. Many of them are anxious to say that a condition of getting them that money was make a contribution of some sort to their countries of that they were asked to renounce their right of return. origin. There are diaspora groups in Britain, the United Events overtook us. The late Robin Cook restored States and elsewhere who are becoming more and their right to return, but that was then withdrawn by more sophisticated and concerned about what is going Jack Straw as Foreign Secretary and the islanders have on in their countries of origin. Therefore, I am delighted now made an application to the European Court. that DfID is giving money to provide long-term support That is a blot on our copybook. It is a disgrace. to those diasporas. I hope that the Commonwealth There is now an all-party committee of 44 members. I can play a part in this and I would like to see very much hope that this Government will take on encouragement for those who want to return, even for their shoulders the responsibility to restore the right of a short time, to contribute to their countries of origin. those people to return at the very least to the outer That has nothing to do with the repatriation scheme part of the Chagos Islands, which is a good 150 miles but it would enable Africans to make a contribution to away from Diego Garcia and does not pose a security solving their own African problems. It is up to DfID issue. I look to the Government to take a lead on that. to encourage them to return and to contribute for a time in whatever way they can. I am delighted that the Royal African Society is working strongly with DfID 3.16 pm in that connection. Baroness Goudie: My Lords, I welcome the gracious A year ago this week, I led a debate in the House on Speech and the speeches of noble Lords across the Commonwealth scholarships and the fellowship scheme. House who spoke yesterday. I want to mention a few The decision had been made by the Foreign Office to items today: the Cluster Munitions (Prohibition) Bill, end all Commonwealth scholarships to developed Afghanistan, the international aid Bill and the G20. I Commonwealth countries. The then Secretary of State declare an interest as patron of the Community for universities—they keep changing their titles and I Foundation for Northern Ireland and a member of have given up keeping track—intervened and said, the executive committee and board of Vital Voices “We will take over the support for scholarships for Global Partnership. developed Commonwealth countries from the Foreign I congratulate all in this House, in the other place Office”, and it is all credit to the department that it and in the NGOs who have been involved in the very did. Subsequently, I have been very glad that the important cluster munitions Bill. Cluster bombs are British Government have contributed as well to the air-dropped or ground-launched explosive weapons new Commonwealth endowment scholarship scheme, that eject smaller sub-missions. They have been used although after 2011 that arrangement will end. Will extensively in recent conflicts around the world in the Government assure us that they plan for that Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo and Lebanon and are still scheme to continue indefinitely so that the scholarships active in 31 countries. I ask the Government to put 89 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 90

[BARONESS GOUDIE] number of my noble friends, I found myself forced to pressure on those countries which have not ratified the defy a three-line Whip earlier this year, but those convention to do so, to stop the killing and maiming people who have been speaking about Conservative of innocent civilians. Party policy in this debate cannot have carefully read I support the Prime Minister and the Government the speech that Mr David Cameron made on 4 November. in their commitment to our strategy in Afghanistan, I certainly agree that they can find passages in that which is vital to Britain’s national security. Along with with which I would not find myself in full agreement, the international community, the United Nations and but the speech has achieved two important objectives. the World Bank, we are the third largest donor and First, it has enabled an incoming Conservative have committed a further £510 million over the next Government to avoid getting embroiled in the sort of four years to enable the people of Afghanistan to protracted domestic campaign and subsequent develop their government and society. referendum—as well as the international negotiations, Today, President Karzai has been sworn in for a which created so much difficulty for the Wilson second term. As part of his new presidency, I ask the Government in the 1970s, so much difficulty that it Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and Douglas put much of the rest of their foreign policy in balk for Alexander to insist that the president leads the fight the period. Had the Conservatives stuck with the against corruption at every level to ensure its eradication, principle of a referendum, it would have dominated and to ensure that he has regular meetings with Members the first two or even three years of a Government and of both Houses. To date, I am informed—I know—that left little room, time and energy for the other important he has not had positive meetings with elected female issues that will confront an incoming Government Members of either House. Female Members of the next year. House do not have offices in Kabul, their offices are in The second achievement of the speech is that it sets their constituencies, so it is very difficult for them to out a policy on the basis of which a constructive form any caucuses among themselves or with male approach to and engagement with Europe can be Members of either House. He must also promote built. I base that judgment on the section of the speech education of girls and women’s rights. that comes after Mr Cameron praises the European I welcome the Government’s commitment to the Union’s contribution to the spread of, international development Bill, which will make a “democracy and the rule of law across our continent”, binding government commitment to spending of 0.7 per cent of gross national income on international in which he sets out the objectives that he wants to development by 2013. That Bill puts beyond doubt the achieve. Government’s determination to deliver on our long-held I welcome his stated intention to be an active member international development commitments, particularly of the European Union. I believe he sets the right at this time of global economic downturn, to meet the priorities when he talks of working with our partners millennium development goals and to ensure a flow of on climate change, fighting global poverty and boosting aid to developing countries. global growth. I think that he is right, too, when he In June next year, the G20 will be meeting in commits his future Government to keeping open the Canada. The G20 has continued to play a crucial role European Union’s doors to new members and to in tackling the international financial economic crisis stand for open markets and a strong transatlantic that we face. The global economy cannot recover or be relationship, as well as open relations with rising powers rebuilt if half the world is left behind, or if half the like China and India. world remains at risk of falling even further behind as I agree very much with what my noble friend Lord a result of the global economic crisis. All recommendations Howell said in his opening speech about the importance emanating from the next G20 summit must be considered of Asia, and I pay tribute to the fact that he was in and developed, with a particular focus on the inclusion many ways ahead of his time some years ago in of women at all levels of decision-making and all drawing attention to that. But there is no zero-sum aspects of economic empowerment. game between engaging with Asia and engaging with To ignore women would not be smart economics. the European Union. Indeed, by building a constructive Invest in women and improve the world. Further, I ask policy within the European Union, we will enhance the Government to request that two further items be our ability to engage constructively with the rising on the agenda: maternal health—every woman must powers of Asia, and that should certainly be our have the right to a safe birth—and that rape no longer objective. Contrary to what some members of my be a tool of war. party might feel, I think that Mr Cameron will find a warm welcome for his approach when he enters Downing 3.20 pm Street and will find that there will be allies with whom he will be able to work. Lord Tugendhat: My Lords, I have listened with some amazement to the strictures about the Conservative I would like to say also a few words about Party’s attitude to Europe from the noble Baroness on Mr Cameron’s ambition to restore Britain’s opt-out the Labour Front Bench, the noble Lord, Lord Clinton- from social and employment legislation and from the Davis, and even my friend the noble Lord, Lord Wallace. charter of fundamental rights. I note that in making I have certainly disapproved of a good deal of the those points he says: recent history of the Conservative Party’s attitude to “If we want to make changes, we will need to do that through Europe. Much of it, I think, has been counterproductive negotiation with our European partners, and we will need the and contrary to Britain’s interests. Indeed, with a agreement of all 27 member states”. 91 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 92

That is indeed true, and it is very different from the discuss those names, but shall instead look at the way approach that some others have recommended in these the implementation of the Lisbon treaty after 1 December matters. I would urge him, in seeking that agreement, will affect parliamentary scrutiny of European matters. to negotiate quietly and temperately and not to turn The first of these is the new powers given by protocol 2 the negotiation into some sort of totem or virility test, of the Lisbon treaty to national Parliaments to submit as some will urge upon him. The more he does so, the reasoned opinions on to the European harder it will be to achieve success. Parliament, the Council and the Commission. The I also think it is important to weigh the price of principle of subsidiarity in the European Union, whereby success. By that I mean that, once you start unpicking the Union shall act only if and in so far as the elements of the treaty, you do not quite know where it objective of the proposed action cannot be sufficiently will lead. Others may be very happy to make concessions achieved by the member states at central, regional or to Britain on the areas in which Britain is seeking local level has been explicit in European law since the concessions so long as they themselves can get concessions treaty of Maastricht. It has been an issue that the in other areas. We might find that the price of securing European Union Committee has watched carefully, the objectives which I have just been mentioning is and it is interesting to note that in the past 12 months that others will want derogations from competition questions on subsidiarity have been raised by the policy or from the internal market policies or from committee in correspondence with Ministers no fewer some other area to which Britain itself attaches great than 31 times. A recent example was a proposal from importance to the application right across the European the Commission for a Council recommendation on Union. So by all means seek to bring about changes, seasonal influenza vaccination that was considered by but look at those changes in the context of the overall the sub-committee on social and consumer affairs last picture and weigh the price that might have to be paid month. The sub-committee shares the Government’s in achieving them. doubts about the compliance of this recommendation I should like to make one final point. All the with the subsidiarity principle and has held it under member states of the European Union have suffered scrutiny, but it has done more than that. It has notified from the financial crisis in material terms, some more other Parliaments and their scrutiny committees of its than us, some less. Britain, however, has in some ways concern and understands that they have followed it up suffered a double blow. All of us will remember the with their Governments. way in which the Prime Minister would go to Brussels The Lisbon treaty, which invites national Parliaments and boast about the British model and our unprecedented to submit reasoned opinions, also makes a provision record and hold out Britain and his policies as a model whereby if a given proportion of Parliaments submit that others should follow. All will remember how he reasoned opinions arguing that a piece of draft legislation worshipped at the shrine of Alan Greenspan and the breaches subsidiarity within eight weeks of its publication, plaque which is up in the Treasury to record that fact. it will oblige the Commission to review the legislation All will recall how he held up the way in which and, if a majority of Parliaments have submitted regulation was conducted in this country as the model reasoned opinions—the so-called “orange card”—it is that others should follow. obliged resubmit it to the Council and the European In many ways, Gordon Brown epitomised the zeitgeist Parliament. In addition, under Article 8 of the protocol of the boom years—a rather improbable association that will come into effect on 1 December, we as a for such a puritanical person, but, none the less, he did Chamber of a national Parliament are given the right in many ways embody the zeitgeist. As the boom years to refer enacted legislation to the European Court of have come to an end and as some of the fallacies and Justice in respect of subsidiarity. All of this represents mistakes of the boom years are coming home to roost, significant increases in the powers of national Parliaments so Britain has suffered a reputational loss as well as with regard to European legislation. In recent months, the material loss. This is the point on which an incoming your Lordships’ European Union Committee has been Government will have to do a good deal of work to giving a good deal of thought to how this will operate rebuild our reputation and to pursue our policies with, in practice. This is set out on its webpage and in I hope, a success but also a humility which the present appendix 8 of its annual report, which was published Prime Minister has so sorely lacked. last week. The second development following the entry into force of the Lisbon treaty will be effective parliamentary 3.30 pm scrutiny of opt-ins. The United Kingdom has had the Lord Roper: My Lords, as chairman of the European right to opt in or not to opt in to legislation on visas, Union Committee, I am not able to take part in asylum and immigration and the free movement of partisan debate on these issues but, as usual, I found persons since the when those the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Tugendhat, extremely parts of the justice and home affairs areas ceased to be wise. In discussing the European Union, this year’s subject to unanimity in the Council. Under the treaty gracious Speech was able to move on from the incessant of Lisbon, unanimity will also come to an end on discussion of institutional issues to consider the effective other matters of justice and home affairs; namely, role the Union can have in sustaining economic recovery police and judicial co-operation. The UK will now and combating climate change. However, as we meet have the right to opt in to legislation on them as well. here, the European Council will be beginning to meet If the UK wishes to involve itself in the detailed in Brussels to try to decide who will be the President of negotiations on such proposals, it must indicate its the European Council and the High Representative decision to opt in within three months of the draft for Foreign and Security Policy. I do not intend to legislation being published. 93 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 94

[LORD ROPER] matters; they have arisen again in two further proposals Noble Lords may remember that during the passage received this month on the reform of the common of the European Union (Amendment) Act 2008, both European asylum system, and will arise increasingly the European Union Committee and the Select Committee when the is in force and the UK on the Constitution argued that there was a need to opt-in applies to all justice and home affairs measures. have a proper parliamentary procedure for considering In every case, if the Government do not opt into an UK opt-ins. Our then Leader of the House, the noble amending proposal, there will be a difference of view Baroness, Lady Ashton of Upholland, assured us between London and Brussels as to whether the existing that, European Union measure continues to apply in this “except where an earlier opt-in decision is necessary”— country. YourLordships’ European Union Committee the example given was readmission agreements with intends to continue to pursue this matter to clarify this third countries— unsatisfactory situation. “they would not opt in during the first eight weeks of the three The third consequence of the Lisbon treaty, as far month period; that if during this period this Committee published as parliamentary consideration is concerned, is the a report on the proposed opt-in recommending a debate, time significant increase in the amount of European Union would be made for one”. legislation that will now be subject to co-decision by Such a debate, the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament. “would be on an amendable motion, allowing for a vote; and that As well as extending co-decision to the remaining the Government, although not bound by the views expressed, justice and home affairs issues, as I mentioned, it will would take note of them”. apply in future to decisions on trade and agriculture, As with the subsidiarity changes, this will clearly on which up to now the European Parliament has had require changes not only to the working arrangements to be consulted but has not had the right to co-decide. for the European Union Committee, which we have The distinction between compulsory and non-compulsory now agreed, but to the scrutiny reserve resolution that expenditure will also be eliminated, which means that was passed by the House and to the committee’s terms the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament of reference. We are in discussions with the Government will have to reach agreement on all parts of the European about these matters, but we hope that there can be an Union budget in future. early decision as your Lordships’ Procedure Committee will also need to consider changes to the procedures of Earlier this year, the European Union Committee the House. conducted an inquiry into the impact of co-decision on national parliamentary scrutiny. We examined the An example of problems in the application of opt-ins suggestion that the growth in agreements between the can be seen in recent work by our sub-committee on Council of Ministers—in practice, between the country justice and home affairs. When the protocol allowing holding the rotating presidency of the Council of opt-ins was negotiated as part of the treaty of Amsterdam, Ministers—the European Parliament—in practice, the no thought was given to the situation that would arise rapporteur for the committee of the Parliament if the Commission proposed amending a regulation or concerned who worked on the dossier—and the directive into which the United Kingdom had opted. Commission in informal “trilogues” made national What would happen if the Government did not wish parliamentary scrutiny more difficult. To continue to the new version of the measure to apply to the UK perform scrutiny effectively will require a regular flow and did not opt in? This is precisely the situation that of information from UK officials in Brussels to the arose earlier this year. The Commission is proposing committee and its sub-committees. It also raises the entirely new versions of all the main instruments that question of our continuing contacts with Members of govern the common European asylum system, and the European Parliament. With increased co-decision last December it proposed a new version of the directive these become more important. that laid down the reception conditions for asylum The Lisbon treaty includes specific references to seekers. The Government do not like it and have not co-operation between national Parliaments and the opted in. European Parliament. The Speaker of the Swedish Once the recast directive applies to the rest of the Parliament has convened a meeting of the conference European Union, will the existing directive continue of European Speakers in Stockholm in early December to apply to the UK? For the Home Office, which to discuss these and I shall represent the Lord Speaker. believes that its repeal will extend to the UK, the We already have COSAC, which brings together the answer is no. However, the committee pointed out that committees dealing with European matters in the the repeal is made by a provision in the new directive, 27 member states and Members of the European none of which applies to the UK because we have not Parliament. The future lies in developing that body opted into it. The recast directive includes the repealing and not in creating any new institutions. provision. The Home Office was not persuaded by our arguments, but we sent our report to the Commission, whose response, which was received last month, comes 3.41 pm down firmly on the side of your Lordships’ House. It Lord Cameron of Dillington: My Lords, we are states unequivocally: covering a wide-ranging agenda today and I want to “The Commission considers that the UK would remain bound speak about African agriculture. I sat on the APPG by the unamended form of the Reception Conditions Directive. for food, agriculture and development, and chaired That directive would not be repealed for the UK”. some of the sessions. We received evidence from a These issues did not seem to have occurred to the most eminent and international group of witnesses. I Commission or the Home Office until they were raised have spoken before in this House about world food by the Select Committee, but they are not technical security and I believe that the world as a whole will be 95 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 96 able to feed itself over the next 40 years. But, without advantage” in agriculture, which is, frankly, meaningless serious and focused investment, sub-Saharan Africa nonsense. As far as African agriculture is concerned, will not. you do not need major scientific breakthroughs. Today’s Africa contains 23 of the 30 least-developed countries seeds, with fertiliser and good practice, could double in the world. There nearly 80 per cent of the population or triple production on many farms if only the lady depend for their livelihood on agriculture. Yet Africa’s farmer could find the training, arrange the finance agricultural performance is the worst in the world. It package, find a way to improve her storage or to sell has appallingly low yields; it loses a high percentage of her crops and then have a road to transport them its crops, both before and after harvest; it uses only a away, or even be able to own and register her land to tiny proportion of its rainfall for irrigation; and it has allow her to invest in it, and so on. You hardly need little infrastructure in terms of training, transport, trained farmers and scientists for that; you only need microfinancing, crop storage or even local markets. to apply concerted pressure and help to the different The farmers, 70 per cent of whom are women, have areas of local governance. little understanding of how to sell their surplus crops It is vital that DfID’s country programmes fully to earn an income and thus pull themselves out of support the overall agricultural agenda. At the very poverty and their neighbours out of famine. However, least we should be putting 10 per cent of our ODA there is huge potential for agricultural growth in Africa. into agriculture in those countries that are upholding It has abundant resources and 12 times the land area their Maputo commitment—that is, we should be of India with only half as many people to feed. helping those that help themselves. I repeat, agriculture International Food Policy Research Institute data show is the key and DfID must be in there helping to unlock that doubling the productivity of food staples across that potential. Africa by 2015, which is certainly physically possible, would raise GDP growth to 5.5 per cent, lift 70 million 3.46 pm people out of poverty and turn Africa from a food Lord Hannay of Chiswick: My Lords, we are at a deficit region to a surplus region with 20 per cent to watershed moment in international affairs. Less dramatic, 40 per cent lower food prices. admittedly, than the last such moment when the Berlin Most people now recognise that it needs an agricultural wall came down 20 years ago, but nevertheless a revolution to take Africa out of poverty. Asian watershed moment for Britain’s foreign policy, for that Governments kick-started their green revolution by of the European Union and for the wider world. That spending 15 per cent or more of their budgets on brief unilateral moment when the US was the sole agriculture. This, for instance, allowed Vietnam to world power left standing has ended, its end hastened turn itself from being a net importer of rice into being by the misconceived and clumsily executed policies of the world’s second largest exporter and allowed China President George W Bush. to take 400 million people out of poverty by focusing Many of the threats and challenges we face can be on smallholder agriculture. Smallholder agriculture is mastered only by concerted action at the global level, definitely part of the solution in Africa and should not and yet the multilateral institutions we possess have so be viewed as part of the problem. Agriculture is the far proved inadequate to the task. Europe has yet to key. The World Bank estimates that a 1 per cent increase find its voice and to pull its weight but, with the in agricultural GDP in Africa reduces poverty by four imminent entry into force of the Lisbon treaty, it has times as much as a 1 per cent increase in non-agricultural an opportunity to further and safeguard more effectively GDP. those common interests which individual member states Donor countries now spend less than 5 per cent of can no longer protect. Britain, bruised by the international ODA on agriculture. It was 18 per cent 30 years ago, financial crisis, by the toll of casualties in Afghanistan but we took our eye off the ball. The UK gives a and uncertain of its sense of direction, risks turning in smaller share to agriculture than most others—a mere on itself and underperforming, as we last did in the 1.37 per cent of its total African aid in 2005-06. With 1970s. A lot is at stake in the period ahead and, by the our own efforts so weak, how can we possibly chivvy time we next debate a loyal Address, a new Government African Governments to fulfil their vital 2004 Maputo will have taken office. commitment to invest 10 per cent of their budgets into The first global challenge will come very soon; less agriculture? We have to get our own house in order. than a month from now the Copenhagen conference We are at last seeing a turnaround of the outrageous on climate change will begin. The auguries for a slashing of agricultural R&D budgets which has occurred successful outcome are far from brilliant. Preparations in this country over the past 30 years. However, the have lagged, cards have been held too close to negotiating main point I wish to make today is that any R&D is chests and excessive time has been spent on rhetorical still completely useless unless it is translated into work jousting between developed and developing countries. on farms and in communities. I know from my own The European Union, at its meeting last month, may experience in the UK that such knowledge transfer is a have been tactically astute in declining to put a figure two-way process, a partnership between growers and on its potential contribution to developing countries, scientists, and if the pipeline between the two is fractured but it may also have made a strategic error because then everyone is wasting their time. Blue sky research European leadership in all sectors of the negotiating with no bearing on the grower’s ability to produce is package for Copenhagen is essential if success is to be pointless. achieved. We used to have a revered reputation for agricultural If the Copenhagen conference fails, the problem of extension in Africa, which we are losing. So, please, let climate change will not, of course, go away; it will us have less talk about DfID not having a “competitive simply get worse and more costly in the long run to 97 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 98

[LORD HANNAY OF CHISWICK] strengthening of the negative security assurances given handle. If the Copenhagen conference comes up with by the recognised nuclear-weapon states to the non- inadequate or quasi agreements; if it fails to establish nuclear-weapon states is highly desirable. a framework for legally binding, even if differentiated, All this will need to proceed against the threatening constraints on future emissions by all; if it fails to backdrop of attempts by North Korea and Iran to provide the support in finance and technology which move in the opposite direction to the rest of the world. developing countries need if they are to accept such The diplomatic route to heading off such a breakout constraints; and if there is no adequate institutional must not be abandoned, but it may need to be strengthened machinery in place to address the implementation of by further sanctions if either of those countries rejects the commitments entered into at Copenhagen, then the negotiating table or uses it purely as an instrument we shall soon enough see the evidence of this shortfall for gaining time. Should such sanctions not be endorsed and the damaging consequences that will flow from it. by the Security Council, which I would greatly regret, The Government’s record so far in these negotiations the European Union should be ready to act in concert has been pretty good, but the hardest part remains with others such as Japan and the United States, and they will need to use all their determination and which are likely to be pressing for them. influence within the EU and more widely in the period The third global challenge ahead of us is trade. So ahead. far, despite some backsliding, the economic crisis Not far behind that challenge lies a possibly even has not been accompanied by the disastrous slide more daunting and complex one: that of putting flesh into protectionism which characterised the 1930s. on the bones of the aspiration, endorsed unanimously Unemployment is still rising, however, and protectionist by the UN Security Council on 24 September, of pressures are there. To put them definitively behind us, working towards a world free of nuclear weapons. It successful completion of the Doha development round will require much skill and political effort at the top of trade negotiations needs to become a central feature level of government over many years. Assuming that a of any exit strategy from the crisis. Our Government, first, essential bilateral step towards nuclear disarmament along with their G20 partners, have been liberal with is successfully achieved by the US and Russia next words to that effect but, so far, remarkably short on month, at some point further down the road, nuclear action. Surely, 2010 needs to be the year when those disarmament will need to become multilateral. It is becalmed negotiations are brought safely into harbour. welcome that the Government have expressed their Every one of these global challenges will require readiness for that. Now they will need to prepare for it the European Union and its member states to pull and to act in the meanwhile—for example, over Trident together and in two out of three, environment and replacement—in a way consistent with the overall trade, to give a lead. Now that the Lisbon treaty, objective. There will be a need, too, to move into properly ratified by all 27 countries, is about to enter serious negotiation on a fissile material cut-off treaty, into force, it is surely in this country’s best interest to if necessary not allowing procedural obstacles at the put the party-political quarrels of recent years behind conference on disarmament to prevent that. We shall us and set about using the strengthened institutions to need to give all the help and encouragement we can to good effect so as to secure the objectives that we share the completion of the ratification of the Comprehensive with the other member states. Any attempt to rake Test Ban Treaty. Here, I echo the noble Baroness, Lady over the ashes of recent years and head back into the Williams of Crosby, who pointed out the real obstacles institutional morass is all too likely not only to infuriate that President Obama and his Administration face on our EU partners and the United States and to isolate the Hill and why countries such as ours, which have us from them but actually to handicap our own pursuit felt that it is in our national interest to ratify the of those substantive policy objectives that it is in our Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, should go across and national interests to achieve. We will certainly not be tell our colleagues on the Hill why we think it would able to achieve them on our own, nor will we do so by strengthen our own and the world’s position if they pursuing false alternatives such as the Commonwealth, were to do likewise. which is an extremely valuable global network but in If we were able to make some progress in the next no sense a bridge strong enough or indeed ready to few months, it should create the necessary conditions bear the weight of negotiations on subjects such as for a successful Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty review trade or nuclear disarmament. conference which will take place in May 2010—somewhat That brings me to Britain’s own contribution to this awkwardly, I suspect, for this country. It will be a complex agenda. Here the signs are distinctly alarming. crucial stage in the process that I have described of No one doubts the need for a sensibly rigorous approach moving towards a world free of nuclear weapons, but to public expenditure at the present juncture, but to by no means its destination. That conference will need spearhead that approach by squeezing the Government’s to endorse the International Atomic Energy Agency’s contribution to peace-keeping, conflict prevention and additional protocol as a universal standard, made the support of multilateral institutions on whose mandatory if necessary. It needs, too, to open the way effectiveness we crucially depend is surely an example to internationally guaranteed supplies of enrichment of false economies. That point was made extremely and reprocessing services so that the expansion of civil forcefully by my noble friend Lord Jay of Ewelme in nuclear energy, highly desirable on environmental grounds, his earlier statement. It may save a few candle ends, can take place without increasing the proliferation but at what a cost. Having fought long, hard and risk. It needs to make withdrawal from the non- unsuccessfully against an increase in the IAEA’s budget, proliferation treaty, as provided for in that treaty, a we now appear to be in the vanguard of resistance to a costly, and not a cost-free, option. In parallel, some tiny increase in the UN’s regular budget. 99 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 100

There may be good reasons for parsimony in handling are still linked to us. So, over the past 18 months I some of these budgets, but the fall in the value of sterling, went back, got my maps and charts out, and had a which, thanks to the perverse accounting practices word with the hydrographer and a few other people. I imposed by the Treasury, has become the driver of our said, “Let’s look at what happens”. As your Lordships diplomacy, is certainly not one of them. The same problem will know, we will be having a great event when the arises on the issue raised by my noble friend Lord Armada tapestries are returned, repainted, and put up Luce, to which he referred—and I would add to the on the wall in the Royal Gallery. They will be here for Commonwealth scholarships the shortfall in our financing a while; I talked to the Archives, and Malcolm Hay in of Marshall scholarships. It is surely high time, therefore, particular suddenly thought that one theme might be for the Government to try to find a way out of the the defence of the realm, because that is not just the self-defeating trap that they have created, and I ask the military defence but the defence of our trade, of the Minister to respond on this point. wealth that we can create and of the added value that Britain is still a leading player in the international we can give. I then thought that, after the Armada community, even if our influence, to be effective, now tapestries and 1588, something was bothering me. needs often, or perhaps almost invariably, to be exerted I had always liked the idea of the Board of Trade, in concert with others. We need to avoid losing our which I thought still existed, but I found that in the nerve at this difficult, watershed moment, and resist Government now there is no mention of trade. The the siren songs of those who would wish us to turn our department of trade has changed its name gradually, backs on the world and who hanker rather absurdly and every three months it has a big makeover and after our becoming another or . spends £300,000 on rebranding. It was called BURP Let us hope that whichever party, or parties, is in or something until recently, and now it is called BISSOFF government this time next year will find a way in or something—I do not know—but there is no mention which to master the challenges that we face, not run of trade anywhere. So I thought that, with your Lordships’ away from them. approval, I would read a simple quotation, as when you have major wars like the Spanish wars you usually 3.59 pm have a recession or a problem, and you need to do Lord Selsdon: My Lords, I thought yesterday that something about it. the gracious Speech, although graciously delivered, After the Armada, King James suddenly found that was rather drab. That feeling of drabness was compounded things were quite difficult, so he formed a body to get when I found myself sitting behind the Clerk of the together the first and original Committee of the Privy Parliaments looking at the diplomatic Benches. It was Council for Trade and Foreign Plantations. The brief as though someone had said, “Dress down”. It was a was: full ceremonial occasion, and they looked extraordinarily “To take into their consideration the true causes of the decay drab, so I went into Black Rod’s office just before of trade and scarcity of coyne and to consult the means for … 3 and asked whether the diplomatic community was removing … these inconveniences”. there in force. “Yes”, he said; it was there in the Royal Things went on, and every 40 years there was another Gallery and upstairs. I think that he might have agreed situation. Later on, Daniel Defoe suddenly realised that it was drab, although he would not have said so, the importance of other things, and said, and I wondered whether instructions had been given “Next to the purity of religion we are the most considerable by the Government to downplay this thing and to Nation in the World for the Vastness and Extensiveness of Trade”. dress down. I was also a bit concerned by the Supreme I got the map up, then, and as your Lordships will Court uniforms sitting in front of me; they were new, know the world is nearly but really not quite round. and I suddenly found myself a bit confused by the There are 360 degrees, and in each degree a nautical whole role of the House of Lords, until I listened to mile is one minute, so if you want to know how far it is the speeches that have been made today. around the world, you effectively multiply 60 by I have a number of weaknesses; one is that I hate 360 degrees. mirrors. I sometimes shave in the morning without looking in the mirror, because a mirror confuses me. It Now, is either dyslexia, or because I get the left and right eye “George III said with a smile, mucked up. I have a feeling that yesterday the Government ‘Seventeen-sixty yards in a mile’”, were not looking into the outside world, but looking so I looked at it and said, “Well, if two-thirds of the at a mirror and trying to preen themselves, to make Earth’s surface is covered by the sea, what is the value themselves look a bit better. Over the past 18 months, of the sea?” I thought that it might be in global I have looked into the outside world. I love the sea; it is warming, or in protection, or in access—or it in my blood. My family were traders right the way might be in the oil underneath the sea. Maybe, I around the world, and we are all mixed up. Generally, thought, we should take an initiative, so I got the map with the Scots, when one female line dies out you take out again, and with a bit of help from the hydrographer the name and make it triple-barrelled. Mine is Malcolm worked out that the coastline of the Commonwealth is McEacharn Mitchell-Thomson. McEacharn was the 44,000 km. I cannot translate those kilometres back first provost or lord mayor of Melbourne; my grandfather into nautical miles, but that is quite a long distance. It on the other side was a Scot, and provost of Edinburgh. is actually longer than that of the Soviet Union or of The other ones were the Mitchells, who fled from the United States, where it is about 20,000 km. And England and did coal in Canada. then I thought, “Well, what are these coastlines for?”. I was brought up in that sort of international I thought again, and had a look. The former British world, and hence I love those parts of the world that territory is about 44,000 miles. I thought, “I’ll tell you 101 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 102

[LORD SELSDON] length—is effectively sailing under a British flag in one what we’ll do. The Commonwealth conference is next way or another. On trade, the Navy always says that week. Let’s get the Commonwealth to declare a 500-mile 90 per cent of our imports come in by sea, but that is, limit and claim the rights on the seabed from all of its oddly, thinking historically. We are a maritime nation, territories”. I am working that out at the moment. and we have that flag business where, if you have a You can then look at fishery protection and all the British flag, you have the right of protection of Her other things, because most of the Commonwealth Majesty’s plenipotentiaries, consuls, proconsuls, countries are based on the sea; five are inland. ambassadors and the Royal Navy. I think that we If you deal with the sea, what can you get out of the should charge a bit more for that protection. Commonwealth countries, a subject to which the noble On the future, the noble Lord, Lord Luce, is absolutely Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, referred just now? right. The Commonwealth is not just a group of Historically, we went there because they had raw material friends, it is a collection of countries with which we that we needed, for which we could create added value. have a historic relationship. They have the ability, with Not least, and perhaps most important of all, was our help and with stability, to create added value. I got food. In order to produce food in difficult countries involved with the Sudan, which was to be the breadbasket these days, you need stability. You need to defend the of the Middle East. In Ghana at that time, my great-uncle villages, the individual tribes and populations from was Stafford Cripps, who did the groundnut scheme harassment. You then look at piracy. that did not actually work. However, we could say that I thought, “What are we good at here in England?”. one of the roles of the United Kingdom, with the We have a balance of payments deficit on visibles— support of the Commonwealth and the EU, is to go to manufactured things—of £100 billion. We have a vast these countries with which we have a relationship, and deficit with the EU and an enormous deficit with give a forward order for so many tonnes, cubits or Germany. The biggest surpluses we have are with whatnot of production per year and sell it on the open Ireland and the United States, but there are no more market. Without stability, a country cannot produce. than 10 countries with which we have a surplus on I worry as I look at the devaluation of our pound. visibles. Services, perhaps, yes, but visibles create more Our trade is getting worse. Eighty per cent of everything jobs throughout an economy. We perhaps need to that is sold in the shops is imported with devalued think a little more on this sector. currency. There are stars in the sky. If the Minister will Some of our high-tech areas are quite interesting. I agree, I will write to her. If the Ministry of Defence have declared so many interests over a period of time. would give me an order for the use of these satellites, I I think that this is my 47th contribution to a debate on would be willing to order them tomorrow. an humble Address; I cannot really remember. However, As a separate favour to our Armed Forces, could I am secretary of the Parliamentary Space Committee the Minister ask the powers that be if our troops in so, instead of looking at the globe and the maps, I Afghanistan and elsewhere could have a little more thought that we should look down from space. So, time on the telephone by doubling the bandwidth of before this debate, I said, “Let’s look at piracy”. Paradigm? Piracy, as your Lordships will know, has historically been in the Malacca straits. It was always in the Horn 4.10 pm of Africa and certain parts of the Caribbean. By Lord Maginnis of Drumglass: My Lords, when I chance, this range runs from 0 degrees—the equator—to listened to the gracious Speech yesterday I felt totally 24 degrees north. I would like your Lordships to humiliated by the manner in which the Government know, and I am sure that the Minister would be showed such disrespect, not only for the ordinary willing to agree with this, that I have put in hand a citizens of the United Kingdom, but for Her gracious preliminary order for six surveillance satellites from Majesty.They did not include a single word of recognition the United Kingdom, possibly in co-operation with for those who serve our nation. Her Majesty, who Nigeria and India which are also in that business, never fails to acknowledge our serving forces, must and possibly also the Russians. They can pick up and have been dismayed by the absence of the Government’s deal with any form of piracy. I have been told that I sensitivity and compassion. can get six for £100 million, which is not a lot today. I thought that we might consider who we could name What is this nation of ours becoming as it is being them after. However, £100 million for space surveillance led in confusion into chaos? There is neither clear to pick up any form of piracy is an extraordinarily direction nor conviction coming from the Prime Minister, good deal. the Secretary of State for Defence or the Foreign Secretary. Just look at the contradictory messages that Yes, of course we are linked to Europe geographically. they have been giving: “We are in Afghanistan for the However, if you look at defence, we are not going to long haul”; “We could be pulling out of Afghanistan put aircraft carriers in the Channel. If there were a in the foreseeable future”; “There are enough helicopters major problem, we reckon that most of Europe might to meet operational requirements”; “We are going to be cut off. However if we look at the historical distances, have more helicopters”. Each utterance depends more all the European countries were in China at the time of on the public mood on any particular day than on the Boxer rebellion. Maybe they will be back there understanding the mission that we have undertaken. now, but the trade routes are going to change. Spin outstrips clarity. While the Government fight Now, within the Commonwealth, there is something their knee-jerk war with the press, our troops are left else quite interesting: 29 per cent of the world fleet by to struggle not only with the enemy on the ground, but tonnage—which is apparently more important than with our national inadequacies. 103 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 104

I had the privilege of visiting our troops in Helmand Is J.D. Bowers, the international authority and respected in 2008, when it was clear that the entire burden was American professor of genocide studies at Northern being carried by our young men and women, such as Illinois University, correct when he openly confirms those at Musa Qala who were for weeks on end, without that Greek Cypriots and EOKA-B, under the leadership respite, mentoring Afghan forces. Was there any strategic of Nikos Sampson, were guilty of the genocide of back-up, I asked? What was the long-term ambition Turkish Cypriots within the 1963 United Nations for this new army when our troops were gone? definition of “genocide”? Did the Akritas and Ifestos Everyone who has served during a terrorist campaign, 1974 plans not spell out the means and methodology as I have, will know that it is as remunerative for an for that genocide? Was Turkey justified in its intervention Afghan to fight for the Taliban or al-Qaeda as it is for in 1974 that brought an end to the killings, when we him to fight for the national Army, and that one day had turned our backs on our treaty obligation? Have the young Afghan soldier must go back to his village. the Greek Cypriots rejected every potential settlement However, I am told that virtually nothing is being for the past 35 years? Did the Blair promises of 2004 to done about the education of these young men. Why Turkish Cypriots, following their acceptance of the have our planners not recognised that, besides learning Annan Plan, run totally and completely into the sand? to fight, these young men need to learn to live—to Unless the Government and the EU face up to the return home with status and a wider ambition for their truth of these questions no progress will be made and families and community? That should be part of a we will have to face up to a two-nation island; perhaps strategy for at least beginning to normalise that region. that is inevitable. Another issue in Afghanistan that puzzles me is the Finally, did not Defence and Foreign Affairs Ministers use of UAVs. I am no expert, but where 10 UAVs, for snub those 371 of our troops who died during the example Predators, can be produced for the cost of emergency of 1955-59, their families and one Chinook helicopter, it strikes me that control from comrades, by failing to attend the unveiling of the somewhere in Colorado or North Dakota—7,500 miles memorial to them—more than 300 of them travelled away—is not, however good communications may be, to Cyprus for the occasion—on Armistice Day this the way to maximise this asset for our troops. Should year? I acknowledge and appreciate that the high British forces not have more UAVs in a surveillance commissioner attended, but it was unforgivable that role, responding to commanders on the ground and no Minister attended this unique occasion—and we flown by operators embedded with units on the ground, all know why. to better and more immediately counter the situation If the answers to my questions are in the affirmative— where most of our casualties are the victims of massive and they must be—will the Minister at least tell us why dug-in landmines? Perhaps the Minister will explain Prime Minister Brown even considered signing a why this Government appear to have, and to tolerate, Memorandum of Understanding with Greek-Cypriot this semi-detached approach to this campaign and to President Christofias on 5 June 2008, in the midst of the defence of our troops. the Cyprus talks process? It was a memorandum that In foreign affairs, the Government state that they further fuelled and underpinned the aggression of the will, Greek Cypriots towards the Turkish Cypriots. “work for security, stability and prosperity in Afghanistan and The Minister may not like it, but she will know that Pakistan, and for peace in the Middle East”. every word I have uttered is true. Otherwise, let her say so now. In the final analysis, I have to ask: is there any How, then, have we managed to withdraw from Iraq honour left in my country or are there any values left so ineffectively that the Prime Minister, Mr. Nouri worth defending? Which is more important to this al-Maliki, and his Government are able to persecute—to Government—the next election or the next soldier see killed or tortured—the 3,500 Iranian refugees at who dies in the belief that this nation is worthy of his Camp Ashraf who oppose the dangerous mullahs’ sacrifice? regime in Iran? When I seek parliamentary Answers, I am virtually told by the Government, “Nothing to do with us—we’re out of there”. Is that not shameful and 4.20 pm a slur on the memory of our young servicemen and Baroness Young of Hornsey: My Lords, I shall women who gave their lives to make Iraq a safer speak on the international development targets set out place—troops taken there, it now appears, at the behest in the gracious Speech. I am tempted, given the range of this Government on a false or misguided premise? of the debate and its depth, variety and erudition, to In the short time still available to me, I turn to what steer into different territory from that which I had I consider to be the greatest and ever enlarging blot on originally planned—given the comments, in particular, the character of our nation and an area studiously and of the noble Lord, Lord Luce, about re-engaging and consistently avoided by this Government; that is, the re-energising the Commonwealth and his support for Government’s persistent obduracy in respect of our the work of African diaspora people around the world obligations, as a guarantor power, to the island of in helping to support Africa, and given the comments Cyprus, our acquiescence in the 45-year denial of of my noble friend Lord Cameron about agriculture. human rights to the Turkish Cypriot community and However, I should stick to my script. our mendacity in respect of our fellow guarantor and As I shall focus on culture and creativity, I should long-time ally, Turkey. declare an interest as a member of the Culture Committee I will pose a number of questions that I hope the of the UK National Commission for UNESCO. I am Minister will be more courageous in answering than the chair of the Commonwealth Group on Culture has been the case in response to my Written Questions. and Development, set up by the Commonwealth 105 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 106

[BARONESS YOUNG OF HORNSEY] In the face of these enormous problems, many of Foundation and tasked with writing a declaration to which have been outlined this afternoon, some may be given to the Commonwealth Heads of Government think that it is frivolous to bring into the picture the Meeting in Trinidad next week. I work also with the issue of culture and creativity, but I assure noble Ethical Fashion Forum as an ambassador. It is an Lords that it is not. Investment in, for example, the organisation that, among other things, has initiated a development of local craft skills can empower people number of projects, including Made in Africa, which to articulate their needs and identify their own solutions. seeks to provide trade opportunities in the design and Examples from the work of the Ethical Fashion Forum manufacture of fashion clothing and textiles on the are indicative of the potential in Africa, in particular continent. in the clothing industry. Work in fashion and the Alongside the task of conducting international dialogue clothing industry is labour-intensive, requires limited about, and acting co-operatively on, development issues, capital input and, with good design and traditional three major challenges preoccupy Commonwealth skills, generates a high premium. Particularly in Africa, Governments and other Governments: first, the current but also in India and elsewhere in the developing global economic crisis, involving the persistence and world, there is an enormous reservoir of creative skill, growth of inequality and devastating, deep-rooted which is evidenced in textiles, clothing and other products. poverty; secondly, dealing with climate change and its In Kenya, statistics show that every job in the consequences and the need to create a model of sustainable garment sector generates five other jobs. In Lesotho, development that is holistic and culturally aware; and, 94 per cent of merchandise exports were from the thirdly, the negative impact of globalisation on cultural clothing industry; GDP per capita increased from diversity, cultural identities and social cohesion, including $558 in 2001 to $3,000 in 2004. DfID notes of Bangladesh: the loss of traditions, histories and the move towards “The garment sector is one of the most important industrial cultural homogeneity, which is driven by the cultural sectors in Bangladesh, about 10 million people benefiting from production of rich and powerful countries and the the industry. The sector provides employment opportunities for encouragement of unsustainable consumerism. approximately 2.3 million workers, of whom 80% are women. The sector contributes about 7% to the overall GDP and generates The 2007 Commonwealth People’s Forum, held more than 75% of overall export earnings”. immediately prior to the last CHOGM, called for A lot of that is generated by becoming a kind of culture to be a central pillar of the Commonwealth, sweatshop for the West, which is not the kind of alongside development and democracy. Current models development that we want to see. We need to skill up of development have failed to make the progress that the producers so that they can produce material that is they should have done, given the resources put into generated in those places for export and to boost them. The millennium development goals will not be trade. There are opportunities for this—in particular, met and poverty and inequality continue to blight the because of the high participation rates of women, for lives of millions. A fresh approach is called for, which promoting their advancement and employment, as demands a new narrative of progress and a creative was so ably expressed by my noble friend Lady Flather. look at how development is practised. Because progress This is particularly important and generates more towards development is usually described in quantitative than just the woman’s job. terms, important concepts such as human dignity, While the economic impact is important, without mutuality and respect, as well as fulfilment and aspiration, other benefits its worth is diminished. As one Rwandan are downplayed or omitted altogether. It is vital to put it to me earlier this year: “I need to eat, but I also humanise development. need to feed my soul”. Culture and creative expression Culture and creative expression are crucial when are well placed to disseminate messages about health, considering cultural resources, connections and values, develop community pride, raise educational standards but they have often been left out of development and provide jobs, but more recognition in the form of analyses, with the consequence that too many interventions strategic investment and interventions is needed in this have foundered. The potential of culture to help to sphere. achieve the millennium development goals has not Through creative expression, other fundamental been realised in the past, nor has the human right to human needs, such as individual and collective pride cultural and creative expression been taken seriously. in skilled labour, are satisfied, educational aspiration The current economically focused development paradigm and ambition are boosted, local and regional cultures pays insufficient attention to the achievement of emotional grow to challenge the dominance of western aesthetics and intellectual well-being alongside the fulfilment of and cultural hegemony, and traditional, sustainable physical needs. Sustainable, balanced growth can be practices that have limited negative impact on the ensured only by integrating cultural, economic and environment are modernised. Creative expression can social development, whether investment comes from make a contribution to sustainable social, cultural and the public or private sector, or ideally from both economic development. working together. DfID has launched a number of initiatives in this Cultures, identities and different values have been area that show a welcome recognition of the issues. viewed as a cause or accelerator of conflict by some However, a number of organisations and individuals politicians, sometimes with good reason. Is culture the with whom I have spoken—and I myself at times—have bricks and mortar of walls or of bridges? How can we been frustrated by the seeming reluctance of DfID to develop spaces where tradition, global modernity and accept fully the role that culture and creativity can intercultural dialogue can be juxtaposed without the play and to see how vital they are to development spilling of blood? agendas in a systematic and engaged way. The benefits 107 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 108 that relatively small amounts of investment in building forward an agenda for Europe that meets today’s the infrastructure of the creative and cultural sectors challenges? Let us look at what those challenges are: in many developing countries will bring to democratic global security, climate change, nuclear proliferation, ideals, environmental strategies, community building, energy security, economic co-operation, financial civil society and the achievement of the millennium regulation, tackling cross-border crime and enlarging development goals urgently need to be recognised. the European Union to the east. I could go on. Our European partners know that we have much to contribute 4.30 pm to the meeting of these challenges, so let us not undermine Lord Grenfell: My Lords, when I was on my way to their confidence in us by testing their patience with the House this morning, I spotted a Daily Mail headline backward-looking demands and pointless provocations. at a newsstand that said, “Sharks off the English As David Miliband has said, what Europe needs from coast”. I thought, “Here we go again. Another attack us is our hard-headed pragmatism and global mindset. on the European Union”. I therefore felt that I had We can and should provide that. some justification in speaking about the European I want to say a word about the presidency of the Union in the House today. A lot has already been said European Council, or chairman as I prefer to call it, but, as we near the end of the debate, I hope that noble and the post of the high representative for foreign Lords will indulge me if I add a few thoughts about affairs and security policy, both of which posts may be the European Union, and I think that they will probably decided tonight at a heads of state and government not be surprised that I do so. dinner in Brussels. What a bizarre procedure for deciding I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord Howell, is who will be the candidates for the two very important coming to take his place because my first point may be posts on which the Council will have to vote. One somewhat relevant to what he said earlier. Regardless would not select a village cricket team with as much of his motives, the leader of the Conservative Party awkwardness and opacity. did both the European Union and the United Kingdom It is also ridiculous that the search for the right man a considerable favour in deciding not to go ahead with or woman for either job should be constrained by the a post-ratification referendum. Whether he has done need to balance the centre-right for the chairman’s himself anything more than a rather temporary favour, post with someone from the centre-left for that of high given the fractious mood of his party and of his rank representative. Why can we not look for the best and file, only time will tell, and only time will tell persons available for the jobs regardless of their political whether “avoiding a bust up”, as he put it, with our positioning? Why should people of the calibre of the European partners will survive the lifetime of a Parliament noble Lord, Lord Patten of Barnes, a former EU during which, if he were to become Prime Minister, he Commissioner for external affairs, or Carl Bildt, ’s would hope to achieve his programme of six reforms immensely experienced Foreign Minister, be excluded to Britain’s relations with the European Union. from consideration for the post of high representative For a fleeting moment—and it was only a fleeting simply because they are not from the centre-left? moment—I was tempted to focus on those reforms, or Meanwhile I greatly regret that our very able Foreign pledges of reform, in my remarks today, but frankly Secretary has declared himself not available. This is they are irrelevant to the current debate on Europe. the really hard post to fill as long as the choice is Some of them, like the so-called “referendum lock” confined to someone from the centre-left. I read with and the proposed sovereignty Bill, can be quite easily great approval, in this morning’s Financial Times, legislated—that is not the problem—but wherever their Jacques Delors’ appeal for less bargaining and a little provisions imply amendment to the treaties, and most more sobriety in the process. I do not think that is in of the six do, not least in the complete and totally particular reference to the working dinner that is unnecessary opt-out from the European Charter of about to be served, but you never know. Fundamental Rights, then the Government will run into the buffers. The Conservative Opposition, of course, do not The ratification of the Lisbon treaty was the want a chairman or president of the European Council culmination of nine years of hard work, often very anyway but they are wrong. The present system of a bitter wrangling, of unsuccessful negotiations and, six-monthly presidency rotating among heads of ultimately, successful negotiations, leaving everyone government has not worked as well as it should have physically, mentally and intellectually exhausted. Only done. The Lisbon treaty’s creation of a two-and-a-half- someone living in cloud-cuckoo-land could count on year once renewable full-time chairmanship will make the other 26 member states agreeing for at least a the Council more effective at creating direction and decade to reopen the treaties amended by Lisbon and action. embark on another round of wrangling over Britain’s My reading of the treaty—I have read it an awful special pleading. However, because we are a highly lot as it has been bedside reading for the past year— respected nation, it may be that at the margins a few convinces me that the intended role for the chair of the concessions can be wrung from our partners by a Council is, first, to prepare the Council meetings, set Conservative Government, possibly in the form of the agenda, chair the meetings, report to the European political declarations which sound reassuring but carry Parliament on the outcomes and monitor the follow-up no legal value and which would be scorned anyway by on the actions decreed by the governments in Council. the more militant Eurosceptics. He or she will also ensure the external representation So why irritate our European partners when there is of the Union on issues concerning the common foreign so much that a British Government of whatever political and security policy but—this is crucial—without prejudice colour can and should do to help to design and take to the powers of the high representative. In other 109 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 110

[LORD GRENFELL] has not been abandoned. The implementation of the words, the chairman’s role is to supplement the role of Lisbon treaty will do much to enhance the Union’s the high representative in external affairs, not substitute efficiency and democratise its procedures. God knows for it or compete with it. Would one really need a that we need an effective European Union if we are traffic stopper to fulfil those functions? not to wake up one day to find ourselves in a G2 world We have been witnessing misguided efforts in some in which the United States and China shape the major quarters to create an upgraded perception of the job decisions that affect us all and the European Union to suit a particular personality rather than looking for stands by begging for an audience. a person to suit the job as envisaged in the treaty. I find What no treaty can ensure is the political will to put that unacceptable and I have hidden my feelings from solidarity among and within the member states at the neither my own party nor the House at large. There heart of its raison d’être. A thoughtful French politician are occasions when tribal loyalty just has to give way recently wrote that Lisbon was a treaty content with to principle. I also feel strongly that the first chair clearing pathways rather than creating new visions should come from one of the smaller member countries and new horizons. He was right. Those pathways lead where there are a number of qualified candidates. This away from the idea of a federal superstate and towards is not just of symbolic significance. The larger member the clear recognition that the political authority of the states downplay the importance of the smaller states member states remains the motor for European policy- at their peril. The Union is not the plaything of the big making. Although the Tory Opposition hate to admit European powers and must never be if the peoples of it, the federalist tendency has lost the battle of ideas Europe are to be brought closer to the Union and the and has faded from the European scene. It is therefore Union closer to the people. the political authority of the member states—the motor for European policy-making—that must be collectively I have one more point to make on the filling of mobilised to respond to the needs of Europe’s citizens posts. I share wholeheartedly the concerns expressed and the demands placed on the Union as a crucial in the letter published in Monday’s Financial Times player in a globalised and multipolar world. written by European Commissioners Margot Wallstrom and Neelie Kroes and European Parliament Vice-President A Tory Government will bear a heavy responsibility Diana Wallis. Why are only men likely to be nominated in that. At present, the Tories’ leaders seem not to for the top two posts when there are excellent women understand the principle of proportionality.Their planned candidates available? And why is it that the new assault on the treaties is out of all proportion to the Commission is likely to have fewer women than the gains that they can hope to make for themselves, the outgoing one? I am delighted that they mention my country or the British people. Perhaps, in a rather noble friend Lady Ashton in their letter as someone more light-hearted manner, I can explain to them what spoken of as a good candidate for the post of high proportionality is. During the Belle Epoque in France, representative. The Council should heed the words of there was a famous writer of theatrical comedy called the Commission’s President Barroso when he calls for Tristran Bernard. One day, walking down a Paris a better gender balance in appointing commissioners. street, a removals man came out of a house carrying a Do not forget that women make up more than half the grandfather clock on his shoulder. Turning as he came population of Europe; so why on earth are they so out, he knocked the playwright into the gutter. Bernard inadequately represented? got up, dusted himself off and said: “Why can’t you wear a watch like everybody else?”. That is enough of posts and candidates. Those of us who believe passionately in the European project I hope that the Conservatives will get themselves a must admit that not all is well at the moment. Armand watch and stop blundering about on the fringes of Clesse, the director of the Institute for Europe like a man with a grandfather clock on his European and International Studies, recently put it shoulder. Will they? I have my doubts, but one can live this way: in hope for another Labour Government. “The European project is now typified by uneasy bargaining, unstable arrangements and a constant search for some provisional 4.45 pm fix. It is a triumph of ‘sacro egoismo’—sanctified self-interest”. Viscount Waverley: My Lords, I see the noble Lord, Recent indications of rising economic nationalism Lord Moynihan, in his place. He will be missed from and a decline in the popular legitimacy of the EU and participating in this debate due to his missing the its institutions risk reinforcing each other. The citizens opening speeches. He was unavoidably detained as a of Europe are asking whether the EU has the will and result of his responsibilities this morning with London the means to deliver on its earlier promises. Popular 2012. I know that he wishes to offer his apologies to consent for liberalisation was purchased with promises your Lordships for not being able to participate this of solidarity. Robert Schuman, one of the founding evening. fathers of the Union, said nearly 60 years ago that The situation in Afghanistan, while ominous, does Europe would not happen in one go, nor as a whole present opportunities. Before offering some thoughts, construct; it would happen through concrete achievements however, I wish to underline the following. An outright and, first, by creating a de facto solidarity. Taliban victory would be disastrous for the region and However, there is too little evidence of that solidarity the world at large. We are doomed if we lose the good today. If we want an effective European Union, it will of the Afghan people and if they cease to perceive must have the full support of Europe’s citizens, and it our help as being in their interest. They must know will not have that unless they are convinced that the that this war is also for them. Our soldiers are dying grand bargain of liberalisation in return for solidarity for them. 111 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 112

I just wish to make a brief point and I do so having Fifthly, we should stem the tide of northbound returned from Tajikistan yesterday, where time was Afghan refugees into Tajikistan. I commend to the spent considering the contribution of central Asian House the outstanding and effective manner in which states to a peace process. Tajikistan and northern Ilija Todorovic, the head of the UNHCR in Dushanbe, Afghanistan are key in carrying messages to the broader carries out an extraordinary task with practically no Afghanistan. There is now a recognition of the need resources. Through his good offices, I visited the apartment to run a set of parallel approaches; a military-only blocks where the refugees are housed and met a number option is wide of the mark and damaging long-term of families. The lack of international support for his interests, with anti-western feelings being exacerbated activities is a—I apologise for using this word—disgrace. in the Islamic world. Al-Qaeda is already considered a I undertook not to forget Mr Todorovic. Ilija, I will reality in many Muslim countries and the perception not. is that it is provided with a justification for its actions. Sixthly, I repeat that it is generally recognised that We in the West will never succeed in imposing our we must talk to the moderates. In years gone by, a will. In addition, western support for—some suggest—a member of the United Nations and I met the Taliban corrupt Afghan Government must end. However, since in Kandahar. It can be engaged with and official support is a reality, we must work to alter the manner channels of contact can be established. From the in which they conduct their affairs. It is exactly that, perspective of the Taliban, its war against westerners and that alone, which gives the impetus to the Taliban is a holy war combined with a war of national liberation to be accepted by the poverty-stricken country. Simply against foreign military occupation and a civil war put, the support for the Taliban is a result of a sense of against the corrupt ruling elite in Kabul, which they hopelessness existing throughout Afghanistan, where see brought to the table by the US and the UK. the Government are seen, for all the recent election Among many messages that we must impart is that we process, as corrupt and imposed. are not about systematically disrupting or altering its deeply felt ideology. On our side, we must be assured The UK and the US are looking at options to that al-Qaeda will not be allowed to use Afghanistan resolve and extricate themselves. I was therefore heartened for training and as a springboard for further atrocities. by reading of the Clinton-Miliband proposals in Kabul The Taliban must distance itself from al-Qaeda, and I this week. This runs exactly along the thinking of suspect that it will use this as some form of final northerly neighbouring states. Three initiatives must negotiation with the West. However, the practical reality go hand in hand: first, continue military options with is that the Taliban controls the everyday life of Afghans. well executed targets; secondly, an essential parallel As an example, last summer, the leadership issued programme of economic development should be strict guidelines containing rules on the behaviour of immediately implemented—it should be remembered mujaheddin and commanders and on how prisoners that Afghanistan was once rich in agricultural terms must be treated and violators punished. and that energy opportunities abound; thirdly, conduct a strategic-only dialogue with the—call them what you Central Asian neighbours are convinced that military- will—moderate Taliban and their supporters. only options are doomed, so I conclude on a point about timing. The Taliban associates the military The northern Afghanistan ethnic Tajik region would intervention of the US in Muslim countries that occurred be a perfect springboard for implementing a diverse during the Republican Administration with Christian programme for a number of reasons. First, the region fundamentalists. Democrats are not perceived similarly. is comparatively safe. Secondly, the so-called northerly For this reason, the Taliban could be more easily Moscow route of drugs could be systematically addressed. persuaded to enter into discussions with the Democrats. There could be a programme of total eradication of By a similar logic, a possible change of political landscape poppy in the region by spraying under an altered in the UK would lead to an immediate opportunity. ISAF mandate, run in parallel with a diversified crops programme and, most important, markets into which to sell. I will add to this the essential need to stem the 4.54 pm flow of precursor chemicals, the necessary ingredient Baroness Northover: My Lords, as ever, we have had for heroin production. Thirdly, American-supplied bridge a stunning, and often moving, array of speeches today infrastructure is already in place and could be further that were far wider ranging than the Queen’s Speech, increased by locally delivered projects to cross the and it will be only a few months before we have river. another Queen’s Speech. However, I shall look at the Fourthly, organisations such as the well respected specific proposals in this speech. The Bribery Bill will Aga Khan Foundation could be supported to ensure bring the UK into line with international anti-bribery that the chain of governmental structures is bypassed rules by making it an offence to attempt to bribe so that benefits reach those who are most in need. foreign officials, and it is long overdue. It ought to They have good relations with regional Governments, have prevented the outrageous decision to halt the ground truth, local understanding and experience and Serious Fraud Office’s investigation into allegations of connections with communities that translate into real corruption in BAE arms sales. opportunities, service delivery, incomes and jobs for Then there is the Cluster Munitions (Prohibition) people. This programme might start with strengthening Bill about which the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, spoke local communities along the border areas and should and on which his campaigning has been tireless. It is include education. There will never be local representative also very welcome, although it is, again, belated. It was systems in Afghanistan with the inability of its people astonishing that the Government so dragged their feet to read and write. over this issue. The Convention on Cluster Munitions, 113 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 114

[BARONESS NORTHOVER] Today, millions of people across the world are which the Bill will bring into UK law, is comprehensive. suffering from the effects of climate change. By 2050, It was said, when DfID pressed for this under Hilary if not enough is done to stem a rise in global temperatures, Benn but the MoD resisted, that this was not only at least 30 million more people will go hungry and because the UK possessed cluster bombs but because 250 million more people will be forced to leave their both the US and the UK had been using them in Iraq. homes. The noble Lord, Lord Jay, mentioned regions Will the Minister say whether these weapons were of Africa, such as Sudan, Liberia and Somalia, in used in Iraq? If they were, were they mapped and what which conflict can be predicted even now. Let us now is being done to remove them safely? The convention try adding in climate change. We already see that the also provides for extensive assistance to affected conflict in Sudan is being worsened by the spread of individuals, families and communities, setting new the Sahara and thus by the displacement of the Janjaweed, standards for international human rights and which has caused such terror elsewhere. We can see the humanitarian law. I trust that we will see all this in UK seeds of future conflict in climate change as people go legislation. Will the Minister confirm that? hungry, migrate and target the land and resources of Then there is draft legislation, others. We know that it is in everyone’s interest to take “to make binding my Government’s commitment to spend 0.7 per this forward. cent of national income on international development from 2013”. As Professor Beddington, the Government’s Chief Many noble Lords—including the right reverend Prelates Scientific Adviser, pointed out at a DfID seminar the the Bishops of Bath and Wells and of Winchester; the other day, with increases in population, urbanisation noble Viscount, Lord Eccles; the noble Earl, Lord and development, by 2030, the demand for food and Sandwich; and my noble friends Lord Chidgey and energy is likely to increase by 50 per cent and for water Lady Williams—have mentioned this. Such a pledge is by 30 per cent. Add in climate change and we potentially of course welcome. face, as he put it, “a perfect storm”. Climate change The Prime Minister stated in his speech at his party will continue even if there is an agreement at Copenhagen. conference that, The differential effects of that, especially at the poles “what was once an aspiration—0.7 per cent of national income and therefore on water levels, are potentially disastrous. spent on international development aid, has become with Labour So in Africa you could see high levels of forest fires, a promise, and will in future become a law. We will pass legislation droughts, water stress, soil salination and changes in that the British government is obliged to raise spending on aid to the poorest countries to 0.7 per cent of our national income. disease patterns. Others may break their promises to the poorest; with Labour As my noble friend Lord Chidgey pointed out, it is Britain never will”. the poorest who are the worst hit. You can see that This was a clever move that attempted to bind the next now in the Horn of Africa where drought results in Government to meet this target. If the Conservatives people selling their livestock, on which their futures won the election, they would have the difficulty and depend, because they are absolutely desperate. As embarrassment of breaking the law, repealing it or ever, it is women and children who often suffer, as in implementing it, despite having clearly very mixed most conflicts, the first and the worst. We can already views deep down about this commitment. When they see the pressure on Africa’s farmland as large companies, left office in 1997, the level stood at 0.26 per cent, and particularly from China and the Far East, buy up I find few Conservative MPs involved in development tracts, which may or may not be in the best interests of issues. those in the local area who may be displaced and not We have long supported the 0.7 per cent target—indeed, receive the food then produced. Will it need a catastrophe we were the first party to do so—but, as my noble close to home to jolt people into action? friend Lady Williams has pointed out, under Labour we are nowhere near the target. I checked with the The speech identifies the need to work internationally Library for the latest figures, and it gave these: on such problem areas as nuclear proliferation, which 0.36 per cent in 2007 and 0.43 per cent in 2008. That is my noble friend Lady Williams and the noble Lord, better by far than the Tories, but not brilliant. Will the Lord Hannay, expertly addressed. It also addresses Minister say how likely it is that a Bill with a 0.7 per Afghanistan and Pakistan. Many in this debate have cent target will reach the statute book by the general spoken of the dangers in this region. As the right election? Does she agree that a commitment only to a reverend Prelate the Bishop of Bath and Wells and draft Bill, with the election coming, is in effect the others have said, poverty and conflict are intertwined, same as dropping the pledge? It would have been such and long-term peace can be secured in Afghanistan a quick and simple Bill, but it is now a draft Bill. only by tackling this. The Queen’s Speech talks of, There seems to be much greater recognition that “effective global and European collaboration through the G20 development is the long-term key to stability. Will the and the European Union to sustain economic recovery and to noble Baroness comment on the doctrine for stabilisation combat climate change”. operations issued this week and on how the UK will Many speakers today have mentioned the potential draw in the Taliban? What can be done to minimise impact of climate change. Where does the Minister civilian losses? I associate these Benches with the think we are in reaching a deal in Copenhagen? Are we condolences expressed by others about the loss of life indeed backing away from a deal and into a “framework” and injury to our troops in very difficult circumstances for a deal—the term used by the noble Baroness, Lady in Afghanistan. Does the noble Baroness agree that Kinnock? What does that mean, and when might the the troops are overstretched and that this must be strong commitments that are required be put into addressed? What can she tell us of US decisions in this place? regard? 115 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 116

A theme that has run through this debate has been be thrown to the wind in this way? Does it not give the the need to work with international partners. This is lie to everything that Cameron says is the new Tory surely so in the Middle East. The noble Lord, Lord Party? What on earth does it say about how he will Turnberg, made a particularly moving speech and I respond if he were to head a Government? What on salute his personal attempts to build bridges. Just as earth would be the UK’s position in the world? the noble Lord, Lord Jay, sees the development of the As we conclude the consideration of the foreign UN duty to protect as something whose time must affairs, defence and international development part of come, so respect for international law must underpin the debate on the last Queen’s Speech of this Parliament, what should happen in the Middle East. It seems to there is a huge array of challenges facing this country me that justice and hope are inextricably linked. The and the wider world. However, depending on the development of international law surely underpins general election results, there has to be a major question this. That is why the Goldstone report is such a brave mark over the UK’s ability in the future to play any and important development. The fact-finding mission kind of constructive part in international affairs, which to Gaza was established by the UN Human Rights surely can be the only way we can take forward any Council, led by Justice Richard Goldstone, former resolution to those challenges. prosecutor in the Yugoslav and Rwanda trials. It found overwhelming evidence that serious violations of 5.07 pm international human rights and humanitarian law were committed particularly by Israel, but also by Palestinian Lord Astor of Hever: My Lords, I agree with the armed groups. Surely they are right that these must be noble Baroness, Lady Northover, that this has been an properly investigated. If they are not, these matters excellent debate. I also welcome the noble Baroness, should be referred to the International Criminal Court. Lady Kinnock, to the Dispatch Box for the Queen’s The UK Government have said that the report is Speech debate. However, one name is missing from the flawed. In what way is it flawed? It does not seek to speakers’ list—my noble friend Lord Hurd. Like others, come to a definitive answer in particular cases; it says I wish him a speedy recovery. that these need to be properly investigated. International I shall concentrate on defence issues. I start by law should be applied fairly, whether that is in Israel paying tribute to those who serve in the Royal Navy, and Gaza, Sri Lanka, Sudan or northern Uganda. the Royal Marines, the Army and the Royal Air Force, Yes, we should engage and not boycott, but the very and remember those recovering from injuries, some fact that an international court is even now considering life changing. I also pay tribute to their families, crimes in Cambodia shows that no one can assume especially to those who have lost a loved one, and to impunity. our veterans. We are looking towards a general election. There is We on these Benches welcome and support the much that might be commended in Labour’s record. Cluster Munitions (Prohibition) Bill. I echo my noble Its commitment to international development was a friend Lord Howell in complimenting my noble friend real change, which should never be forgotten, compared Lord Elton and the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, for the with the lack of priority the Conservatives gave to it excellent and hard work that they have done on this when they had a chance. However, Labour has dissipated issue. Cluster munitions have caused far too many so much international good will through its disastrous indiscriminate casualties over the years. However, it is intervention in Iraq. This completely overshadowed essential that the operational capability of our Armed action in Afghanistan, which had international agreement Forces and their safety in a battlefield situation are not but which was sidelined, overshadowed and starved of compromised. Some key countries have not signed the funds by the Iraqi engagement. agreement. What progress has been made regarding Labour’s engagement with the G20, particularly negotiations with these countries? The US Administration over the financial crisis, and its recognition of the have made some moves, but what about Russia, which, importance now of countries such as China, India and it is claimed, used cluster bombs against Georgia? Brazil is welcome. However, its love-hate relationship As I shall concentrate on defence issues, I am only with the EU has damaged our position there. There is sorry that I shall not have time to challenge many of so much more it could have done to explain to the the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of British public why acting with this major bloc with its Saltaire. I always listen carefully to his thoughtful huge economic power in the world, was in our best speeches, so I was rather surprised that most of his interests. As my noble friend Lord Wallace pointed speech today was spent criticising, mostly inaccurately, out, how can you properly address climate change, my party. Despite what the noble Lord said, I have international terrorism and migration unless you do never known relations between the French and my so on an EU-wide basis? party to be as good as they are at the moment. I have Where do the Conservatives stand? It is frankly been patron of the Conservatives in Paris for seven astonishing, and it should be deeply troubling—not years and I cannot remember being approached, as I least to opposition Members in this House—to see have been on numerous occasions this year, by so that, in order to win selection as leader of the Tory many French politicians asking to meet David Cameron Party, David Cameron said that it would break with its and other senior members of my party. former grouping in the European Parliament and form Our defence debate earlier this month proved that a new group with right-wingers, whom they are now Afghanistan remains the greatest challenge confronting trying to shadow and silence. How could it possibly our nation. The noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, rightly have thought it was in the UK’s or the EU’s interest to said that our presence there is a necessity, not a choice. do this? What does it say about principles if they can I am proud to say that we on these Benches will 117 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 118

[LORD ASTOR OF HEVER] the training of Afghan forces, the Prime Minister has continue to maintain our support for British troops in delayed the very means by which that acceleration can Afghanistan, and I hope that the Liberal Democrats take place. will stick to their stance, too. We recognise the cost of failure in Afghanistan. This means that our goal should To achieve success, we on these Benches endorse be an Afghanistan capable of managing its own security. NATO’s fully fledged counterinsurgency strategy, crafted by General McChrystal. Implicit in the general’s strategy NATO tactics are evolving. Despite recent casualties, is the training of Afghan forces. No counterinsurgency our forces are getting better at using smart optics to is successful without a capable host nation force comprised detect IEDs and at building up intelligence on the of military and police forces. The Afghan Defence networks responsible for planting them. The battle for Ministry’s army fielding acceleration plan now advances Helmand can be won. the full-sized ANA fielding target date to December I was fortunate enough to go out to Afghanistan 2011. What can be done to ensure the achievement of this year; indeed, I travelled out sitting next to the this goal? No less important are the Afghan police. noble Lord, Lord Dubs. I agree with the noble Lord The launch of the Afghan national development strategy that all the Afghans we met pleaded with us to stay, last year and the subsequent Ministry of Interior feeling very vulnerable to the Taliban. I also agree police reform are two steps in establishing robust and with him, and my noble and learned friend Lord capable police forces. However, as General McChrystal’s Mayhew, about the importance of getting on top of recent assessment states, corruption there. The soldiers to whom I spoke in Afghanistan were unanimous in their belief that it is in “the ANP suffers from a lack of training, leaders, resources, the national interest that we succeed there. We can equipment and mentoring. Effective policing is inhibited by the make our contribution by ensuring that the Government absence of a working system of justice”. give them the tools to finish the job. Can the Minister say what the Government are doing The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Guthrie, said to incorporate the development of the ANP into the that the Armed Forces need to know that the Government current strategy? What of other local auxiliary forces? and the people are with them and for them. The noble Already there is a public protection programme in and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, said that morale was Wardak province that uses local citizens as static security high at the 2 Rifles medal parade and that he did not forces for checkpoints and roadblocks. Has any come across any discordant note. However, there is a consideration been given to establishing such a programme growing sense of unease in the Army that the in Helmand, at least in the interim? determination shown by troops on the front line is being undermined by the sense of gloom at home. While it is the most pressing issue, Afghanistan is Politicians need to understand the inherent dangers of not our only challenge. Today, the British Armed war. I agree with my noble friend Lord Howell that Forces are participating in 15 international operations. continuous talk of an exit strategy is unhelpful. We We have 41,000 troops in 32 countries and overseas cannot have a situation where soldiers on the ground territories. It is therefore vital that we train and prepare start thinking, “What’s the point of losing your life for ourselves for a wide range of conflicts. In the MoD, a cause that we’re abandoning?”. they speak euphemistically of “capability holidays”, which means that such things as air-to-air refuelling This is not a reason to give up the fight, but a call and unit-level para drops are being neglected. What for stronger leadership and clearer communication of message does that send to those around the world who military strategy from our Government. On the one wish us ill? hand, the Prime Minister says that our troops’ presence in Afghanistan is vital for our security and safety at On equipment, the recently published Gray report home; on the other, he says that he will not, reveals the Government’s management of the equipment “put the lives of British men and women in harm’s way for a programme as haphazard at best and scandalous at government that does not stand up against corruption”. worst. However, it is not all bad news on the equipment Either their presence is a national security imperative, front. I am happy to see that, as a result of an initiative or it is not. Which is it? that I and the noble Lord, Lord Drayson, launched, The Afghan Government must trust that we are the motorsport industry is applying its skills—and it is committed, but how can our own soldiers trust our particularly adept at getting things done quickly—in commitment when the Government cut funding to support of the MoD’s urgent operational requirements. Territorial Army training during wartime, and pledge Some of these motorsport companies and their factories 500 additional troops but set heavy caveats? I hope are now on a real war footing, and I congratulate the that the Minister will say something about where we noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Drayson, on stand at the moment with the three conditions that the encouraging this important initiative. Prime Minister mentioned. On helicopters, the Government have told us that The Prime Minister said very clearly that the request we have enough; then they admit that we do not. So, for 500 extra troops follows from, additional Chinooks are apparently being purchased “clear military advice from our chiefs of staff and our commanders in a hurry. Can the Government confirm the number? on the ground on implementing our strategy and reducing the Is it 10, or is it 20? When will they be available? The risk to our forces”.—[Official Report, Commons, 14/10/09; col. 302.] future medium-lift helicopter, which would bring new Yet a month after these words, those 500 soldiers and aircraft into the inventory, seems to be a low priority; their families are still waiting for the Government to instead, we have an upgrade in of the Puma, make up their mind. Having set a new target date for which can charitably be characterised as a tired airframe. 119 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 120

Are the Government convinced that this expenditure was able to plan and direct a major attack, as it has is the best use of public funds, reported to be in the tried to do in other parts of the world. We are in region of £300 million? Afghanistan to stop that happening again, and we are My noble friend Lord Selsdon mentioned sea lanes. there as one of 43 nations in a United Nations-authorised During this Government’s term in office, the number and NATO-led engagement—all of those people having of front-line ships has been reduced. We now see RFA made the same judgment that we have made. ships undertaking the role properly ascribed to warships; It is important to remember that when we come to the recent hijacking of the Chandlers’ yacht by pirates, the issue that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, which the noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, mentioned, mentioned: the need to make sure that we have public illustrates this point. There have been media reports support. There is no doubt of the support for our that the MoD is planning to sell one of the new operation on any side of this House, or, indeed, in aircraft carriers to India. Could the Minister comment another place. However, we need to explain to the on that? Finally, we have the prospect of a Green public as often as we can exactly why we are there, and Paper at some point in the new year. That will address what the dangers of our withdrawal would be. many of the issues that we have been discussing today, That means tackling some of the critics head on. and I very much hope that it will finally acknowledge Mention has been made today of corruption, which that this country is engaged in a war. concerns many people. We are right to be worried about that. President Karzai had his inauguration 5.20 pm today. It was good that he said in his speech that he needed to emphasise the need for Ministers to have The Minister for International Defence and Security integrity and professionalism. That applies not just to (Baroness Taylor of Bolton): My Lords, this has indeed Ministers at national level, but to regional governments been a very well-informed and wide-ranging debate. I as well. We should not be naive and assume that will endeavour to cover as many topics as possible, but because it was in that speech it will happen. We must it may be impossible to deal with every item that has all keep the pressure on to ensure that he moves in that been raised. I am sure that the House will understand direction. However, that is not an excuse for inactivity that I want to spend much of my time talking about on our part. Afghanistan, as the noble Lord did. Some are saying that, because al-Qaeda is now very I am afraid that, as too often on these occasions, I much located in the borderlands of Pakistan, there is must start by speaking on behalf of the whole House no point in saying in Afghanistan and we should just in offering condolences to the families and friends of concentrate on Pakistan. However, if we were to abandon those who have been killed on operations in Afghanistan Afghanistan, who really believes that al-Qaeda would in the past few days. They are Sergeant Phillip Scott of not take root and have an easy life there again? We 3rd Battalion the Rifles, Rifleman Philip Allen of might be involved in doing the same kind of activity 2nd Battalion the Rifles, Rifleman Samuel John Bassett all over again. of 4th Battalion the Rifles, Rifleman Andrew Ian Fentiman from 7th Battalion the Rifles, and Corporal Some argue that we could just be “fortress Britain”, Loren Owen Christopher Marlton-Thomas of and that we should spend more money on our intelligence 33rd Engineer Regiment (Explosive Ordnance Disposal). services, something that we have considerably increased It is right that we should start by recalling their our spending on over the past few years. The men and sacrifice and, indeed, the sacrifice of others. I know women of our Armed Forces are protecting us from that the House always finds that a salutary occasion, terrorist attacks in Britain just as much as the police as I do, and I think it right to concentrate my comments and the intelligence services do here in the UK, so we on the operation in which they were engaged. cannot think of “fortress Britain” as an alternative. The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, began Some say that we should leave this to other countries. by talking about morale, as the noble Lord, Lord That would not be fair. We are vulnerable. No one Astor, has just mentioned. He talked about the devotion country, even America, is big enough to take this issue to duty of those who are on operations; we can all alone. echo that, and praise those who have been involved. It Some people argue that our presence in Afghanistan has been a difficult year; 98 of our personnel have is a boost to violent extremism around the world. I been killed, and the coalition as a whole has lost have even heard one commentator say that we would 473 people, but it has been extremely hard on the not have had 9/11 if we had not invaded Afghanistan, Afghans as well. As the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, forgetting the timeframe. There is total confusion there, reminded us, many hundreds of civilians and members because people merge all these issues and make silly of the Afghan national security forces have lost their remarks. It would be a great boost to extremist ideology lives this year, while NATO figures show that 223 Afghan if we were to retreat now. We cannot do that. military and police were killed in action in August and Some also argue that Afghanistan is not the only September alone. country where there is a risk of terrorism taking root. It is right, then, to concentrate our attention on this That is true. However, our operation in Afghanistan particular issue and—as I think other Members of does not mean that we are failing to work with other your Lordships’ House have said—we really have to nations to counter terrorism elsewhere. It is true that keep reminding people why we are there. We have not the majority of plots made against the United Kingdom to forget that nearly 3,000 civilians were killed in one have had connections to the border region of Afghanistan day on 9/11, and that those attacks were planned in and Pakistan. That is where the great threat to us is, Afghanistan, which was a safe haven where al-Qaeda which is why we must be where we are now. 121 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 122

[BARONESS TAYLOR OF BOLTON] provided, much of it through urgent operational There has been mention of whether this should be requirements and with much co-operation from industry, an open-ended commitment, and whether any progress has been very important. has been made. The noble and learned Lord, Lord I am also pleased that we have managed in many Mayhew, said that the public needed convincing both ways to get closer co-operation on equipment from that it was not open-ended and also that progress our allies. Indeed, the recent developments on the could be, and was being, made. It is important to European helicopter initiative are extremely promising. realise that we are now in Helmand, suffering all the It is a multinational initiative, which includes pilot difficulties and taking the hits that we are, because we training sponsored by the European Defence Agency, are extending the whole area of Afghanistan that is and with good co-ordination—as I know some Members under some form of control. Three or four years ago, will be pleased to hear—between NATO and the EU. Helmand was a no-go area. It is true that we do not More co-operation of that kind is something that we have control over that entire area, but the major areas need to work on and do in the future. of population are now being taken back from the Looking to the future, we are very heavily committed Taliban and developing their own internal government at present and we must be aware that we need to look, with our help. Some progress has been made, despite in the Green Paper and the Strategic Defence Review, all of the difficulties. not only at our experience of the recent past but at the Questions were raised about the conditions that whole spectrum of threats that may encompass us in have been laid down for the extra 500 troops; that is, the future. As the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, said, we 500 on top of all those that we sent for the election have to think about our role in the world. I reassure period. It is important to realise that there are good him that we do not think that Britain should become a reasons for putting down those conditions. It is true Switzerland, as he suggested it might. I hope that he that we have called up the 500, but we must also make finds that reassuring. The Green Paper, which will the right preparations for their deployment—for example, look at the whole spectrum of possible threats that we by ensuring that the kit that is needed for the extra might face, will be very realistic and will help us to troops to deploy is ready in time. We would be criticised work out how we should be using our Armed Forces if we did not do that. The burden-sharing condition to defend our own interests and how defence itself that we laid down has been extremely important in must change to meet the problems that lie ahead. exercising some leverage on our allies. There is a real There is some interesting thinking going on about hope of extra contributions from others. We are working the kind of issues that we will have to face. The noble very hard and not deliberately delaying; we are planning Lord, Lord Jay, and others raised some of the problems, sensibly and co-operating with our allies. as did the noble Lord, Lord Howell, when he opened We are moving in the right direction. Our ultimate his remarks by talking about the spectrum of changes, objective is exactly the same as it was in 2001—to the rise of Asia and all those other aspects that are protect our citizens from terrorist attacks by preventing going to be so important. There are many threats to al-Qaeda having a safe haven in the tribal belt in either which we will have to respond, including globalisation, Afghanistan or Pakistan. For us to be safe Afghanistan interdependence, climate change, population growth, needs to be safe and Pakistan needs to be secure. As energy security and proliferation. The whole range has the Prime Minister says, this is not a conflict out of been covered during this afternoon’s debate. choice, but a conflict out of necessity. That is the We have the problem of many fragile, failing or message that we all have to keep getting through. failed states, asymmetric threats and non-state players. The world is very different and is changing at a remarkable The issue of equipment has been raised somewhat, rate. In such environments and facing such challenges, but the fact that it has been raised less than on some as the noble Lord, Lord Jay, mentioned, conflict other occasions shows the significant recognition of prevention and the promotion of security will always the improvements that have been made. At the beginning be important, perhaps increasingly important, because of any campaign it is probably the case that there is a they are better than post-crisis cure. I hope that using degree of readiness, but it is never going to complete. soft power, anticipation and the information and influence You can never be sure exactly what problems you will that we have will be considered important because we face on a battlefield. Obviously, nothing can eliminate have to look at what we can prevent rather than just at all the dangers of the battlefield. A counterinsurgency where we need to intervene. What used to be called campaign is extremely difficult. Yes, there are issues as defence diplomacy should perhaps be called defence to how many helicopters we have. As our commanders and security diplomacy to enable us to explore these have said, we have sufficient for operations. We should matters in the new circumstances. remember that helicopters are a pooled NATO resource; We need to help the international community to we do not use just our own. However many helicopters improve its approach to all the issues that have been we have—and we could always use more—we cannot mentioned. We have discussed the need to protect hold the ground from the air. Therefore, those risks civilians in conflict—we have been given some alarming will always be there. and harrowing examples of that. Last week I was in Our forces are as well equipped as any professional New York, where the United Kingdom took a lead Armed Forces in the world. The acknowledgement of role in persuading the United Nations Security Council that from a whole range of quarters has been good to to adopt a new resolution that strengthens the role of hear. I know that those who have visited Afghanistan protecting civilians in peacekeeping missions. As the and talked to the troops there find that they say that right reverend Prelate mentioned, peace does not always very clearly. The amount of equipment that we have mean safety. 123 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 124

We have to ensure that we improve the ability of the this in a House that has many experts, but I was very world community in undertaking operations to react interested in the opening comments of the noble Lord, to the whole range of new situations, dangers and Lord Howell, who said in passing that, in theory, he threats that it faces. There is scope for progress and supported membership of Europe, but he could not considering new ways forward. We recognise that we quite bring himself to say anything good about Europe. have to work with other partners on all these issues. When the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, said that you We need to work through NATO, the EU, the UN and cannot want international co-operation and then turn changing informal coalitions because, as my noble your back on your neighbours, he summed up the friend Lady Kinnock said at the start of the debate, tenor of much of that earlier contribution. multilateral solutions to global problems such as conflict As regards the analysis of the noble Lord, Lord and instability are not just the best solutions but the Howell, of the changing world, there was much with only way forward. which we could all agree. Indeed, we can agree on the As the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Guthrie, said, importance of the Commonwealth and its potential to we cannot do everything alone; indeed, nobody can do be used even more in terms of soft power. That is one everything alone. That means that we have to ensure reason why I am pleased that at the Commonwealth increasingly that our international institutions are shaped Heads of Government meeting next week, Britain will in such a way as to allow for the planning and buy-in be represented not only by my noble friend Lady from other countries that we need without imposing Kinnock, but by the Foreign Secretary and the Prime too many stalling mechanisms and procedures. That Minister. That shows that we are taking the can be a big problem. Commonwealth extremely seriously and, therefore, that divisions should not be there. I am tempted to say There is no easy solution. We have to consider all that the tenor of the speech of the noble Lord, Lord the issues appearing on the horizon. We need to optimise Howell, was, “be nasty to Europe, but be nice to the our capacity-building capability through military training Commonwealth”. I did not think that that was a and education. The United Kingdom has a good comprehensive foreign policy, and there was a touch record in that respect. We have to consider how we can of what my noble friend Lady Kinnock called “diplomacy use soft power—security co-operation and influence—to by tantrum”, which is a phrase that may be used on its greatest effect and make it part of mainstream many occasions in this House and elsewhere. Ministry of Defence activity. We also have to ensure While I am mentioning Europe, perhaps I may say a that we have full co-operation among all government word about ESDP, an issue raised by my noble friend departments. I was particularly pleased that, in a Lord Anderson, and some of the work which is going paper published earlier this year, the Department for on there and is sometimes ignored. Someone mentioned International Development rightly acknowledged that piracy; Operation Atlanta, which the UK hosts at its poverty reduction could not be separated from progress headquarters at Northwood, is an exceptionally good on politics and security. Defence can help to establish example of where the EU can be proactive, but can the conditions on the ground to make this happen. It work with other players, including NATO and some of is important that we ensure that all these elements the large countries with which we do not normally work together. The other thing on which we have to work. And, lo and behold, we have managed to carry concentrate is getting better co-ordination of effort out that operation without the need for any great new within and between the international community and superstructure. That shows that co-operation can and regional institutions. We have to work together as should go ahead, but we should not create unnecessary closely as possible on governance and stability issues. superstructures. I should say a word about personnel issues, especially It is also interesting that the EU is considering what as we have just held remembrance services. It is important it might do to help the situation on the land in Somalia— that we build on the very good work in the service not by going there directly, but by training some of its personnel command paper of last year. I am pleased security forces out of country. That proposal was that my right honourable friend the Leader of the made recently and is being considered. It is not without Commons has today announced an initiative on the difficulties, but it is certainly worth exploring. employment of service spouses, which has been widely While I am on the subject of Europe, perhaps I may welcomed and shows that we can build on the wide mention the points made by the noble Lord, Lord range of activity that we have carried out in terms of Roper, which were very detailed and technical to many looking after those who serve our country in this way people. We are in discussions with his committee about and their whole families. Whether in compensation, the new powers which the Lisbon treaty will give housing, employment, or health, significant strides national parliaments and the undertakings that the have been made in the past 12 months, but we need to Government gave during the passage of the European build further on that. In fact, we announced this Union (Amendment) Act of last year. They will need month a new concept: the welfare pathway. We have to be considered by the Procedure Committee, and my launched a local pilot scheme with Kent County Council noble friend the Leader of the House will take forward to try to make sure that there can be more co-ordination the discussions shortly. between all the agencies, whereby any service personnel There is a range of other issues, but I do not have or veteran knows where to go for an initial point of time for them all. I will say one thing about development. contact to obtain information in different ways. The noble Lord, Lord Cameron, and the noble Earl, In five minutes I should like to discuss and respond mentioned Africa and the need for food security. These to many other issues. However, I cannot wind up are high priorities to which we give particular attention. without saying a word about Europe. I hesitate to do There was a world food summit recently, which two 125 Queen’s Speech (Second Day)[LORDS] Queen’s Speech (Second Day) 126

[BARONESS TAYLOR OF BOLTON] of Defence is having its hands tied behind its back by Ministers from different departments attended. I assure the significant sums that are being withdrawn from it noble Lords that we are apprised of the need for good on the basis of an overspend that has been brought investment in agriculture and for sustainability in these about only by having to buy the emergency equipment areas. that is so badly needed at the front? I will mention cluster bomb legislation, which has been welcomed throughout the House. I hope that the Baroness Taylor of Bolton: My Lords, I am happy House and another place will pass the legislation to clarify that point. It is not the case that the Ministry quickly since it has general support. I will also say a of Defence is overspent because of operations. The word about the points made by my noble friend Baroness operations in Iraq and Afghanistan have been extremely Goudie and the noble Baroness, Lady Flather, about important. It is significant that the money for those the role of women in development. The points were operations has come from the Treasury. It is a big serious and the Department for International commitment. Around £18 billion has come from the Development recognises them. If you can improve the Treasury for operations since 2001, on top of the situation of women by improving their health or giving increasing budget that the Ministry of Defence has them access to family planning or employment, you had year on year. There are problems with spend, but are more likely to change a whole community and they are long-term and caused by decisions taken a ensure that progress is made. long time ago, not by operations.

Lord Bramall: My Lords, does the noble Baroness Debate adjourned until Monday 23 November. agree that, while the crisis in Afghanistan continues—it is a crisis, whichever way you look at it—the Ministry House adjourned at 5.48 pm. WS 1 Written Statements[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Written Statements WS 2

on NHS waiting lists when they move. Other measures Written Statements will be delivered in the coming months, such as the MoD’s affordable home ownership pilot scheme. The Thursday 19 November 2009 report also highlights areas where we may need to do more, such as ensuring that veterans receive priority treatment under the NHS when entitled to it, and that Afghanistan: Call-out childcare arrangements meet the requirements of service Statement families. The Government will be following up the valuable points made in the report, for example by The Minister for International Defence and Security taking further steps to raise awareness of veterans’ (Baroness Taylor of Bolton): My honourable friend the needs among GPs, and pressing on generally with Minister of State for the Armed Forces (Bill Rammell) implementation of the measures announced last year. has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. Our commitment continues undiminished. With the expiry of the call-out Order made on The ERG brings together representatives from a 11 November 2008, a new Order has been made under wide range of government departments and the devolved Section 54 of the Reserve Forces Act 1996 to enable Administrations, with leading charities and the service reservists to continue to be called out into service to families’ federations. It offers a unique perspective on support operations in Afghanistan. The new order is how well we are doing, and I am very grateful to its effective until 10 November 2010. Reservists continue members. This report shows how the dialogue between to make a valuable contribution to operations in that government and the third sector on how best to support country and some 1,200 reservists are currently called the Armed Forces community has grown and developed out and serving, of whom 650 are deployed in theatre. over the past year. That relationship, and its continued The remainder are preparing for, or recovering from, improvement, is very important to us. I look forward operations. to the ERG’s future reports as further progress is made in this vital work. I commend to the House this annual report on the Armed Forces: Personnel nation’s commitment to the Armed Forces community. Statement Civil Law Reform Bill The Minister for International Defence and Security Statement (Baroness Taylor of Bolton): My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence (Bob Ainsworth) The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. of Justice (Lord Bach): My honourable friend the I am today announcing the publication of the first Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of annual report on the Service Personnel Command Justice (Bridget Prentice) has made the following Written Paper, The Nation’s Commitment: Cross-Government Ministerial Statement. Support to our Armed Forces, their Families and Veterans. In June 2009, the Government confirmed their Copies are being placed in the Library of the House. intention to publish a draft Civil Law Reform Bill for Our forces personnel are prepared to put their lives pre-legislative scrutiny. I am today announcing that on the line in service of the country. They willingly the Bill will be published in December and will include accept restrictions to their lifestyle and the unique provisions: conditions of service that are required to do the job. to implement the reforms to the law of damages But on becoming service personnel, they have not announced by the Ministry of Justice in July 2009; ceased to be citizens. Government have a moral obligation to reform the law of succession so that where a to ensure they are not disadvantaged as citizens by person is disqualified by the forfeiture rule or refuses service life. The Service Personnel Command Paper an inheritance by disclaimer his or her heirs are not was about meeting that obligation. disinherited; The measures we set out last year were well received to implement the reforms of the law relating to the by the services, by veterans’ groups and by the public calculation of interest on judgment debts and at large. But we are determined to ensure that the damages announced by the Ministry of Justice on commitment set out in that paper does not fade. One 16 September 2008; and of the steps we took was to ask our External Reference to transfer the jurisdiction for appeals in barristers’ Group (ERG) to monitor delivery, and to report annually. disciplinary hearings to the High Court. It is the first of these reports which is being published The draft Bill will not now include provisions to today. reform the law of limitation of actions. These provisions The report charts the progress that has been made were based on a Law Commission report of 2001. But including the delivery of significant improvements in a a recent consultation with key stakeholders has number of areas. For example, we have doubled the demonstrated that there are insufficient benefits and compensation paid for the most serious injuries; extended potentially large-scale costs associated with the reform. eligibility to affordable housing schemes; opened up In addition, the courts have remedied some of the access to free further education for service leavers; most significant difficulties with the law that the Law improved the immigration arrangements for families Commission identified, for example, in relation to the of Foreign and Commonwealth personnel; and taken limitation aspects of child abuse cases. The limitation steps to ensure that service families retain their places reforms will therefore not now be taken forward. WS 3 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 4

EU: Agriculture and Council The SRR, established by Part 1 of the Banking Statement Act 2009, enables the authorities to resolve a failing institution, rather than allowing it to become insolvent. Under regulations made under Section 214B FSMA, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, the FSCS may be required to contribute to the costs of Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs the SRR, up to the net cost that the FSCS would have (Lord Davies of Oldham): My right honourable friend had to incur in a counterfactual scenario where the the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and institution had instead gone into insolvency. Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn) has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. The change will mean that the Government can include the interest costs incurred in a resolution in My honourable friend the Minister for Food, Farming the calculation of costs to which the FSCS may be and Environment (Jim Fitzpatrick) and the Minister required to contribute. It will also mean that the for Marine and the Natural Environment (Huw Irranca- maximum contribution the FSCS can be required to Davies), will represent the United Kingdom at the make will include interest costs which the FSCS would Agriculture and Fisheries Council in Brussels on 19 and have borne in the hypothetical scenario where the 20 November. institution had gone into insolvency. There are a number of items on the agenda relating This will be achieved through the keeping of two to agriculture and fisheries which are of significant separate accounts which record all costs (including interest to the United Kingdom, including the adoption interest), recoveries, and any interim contributions to of the recent dairy proposals, on which the UK will SRR costs which the FSCS is required to make. The abstain. Discussions will take place on the following: interest will be calculated by applying interest rates conservation of fisheries resources through technical prescribed by the Treasury to the net balance in the measures; relevant account at that time. EU/Norway annual fisheries consultations for 2010; First, a real account will be kept which records all 2010 fishing opportunities for in the actual resolution outlays the authorities incur and all Black Sea; associated inflows (ie the proceeds of the disposal of simplification of the Common Agricultural Policy; the assets of the failed institution and any interim and contributions to SRR costs). Interest will be calculated periodically (on the net balance on the account) and future of the Common Agricultural Policy: rural added to the outlays. development. There are currently two items under any other Secondly, a hypothetical account will be kept based business—a statement on Community action reducing on the counterfactual scenario using data from the incidental catches of seabirds; and general conclusions FSCS as to how much compensation would have been from the 26th conference of EU paying agencies. paid and when. Interest will be added to reflect the cost of the borrowing the FSCS would have needed to There is also a ministerial lunch scheduled to discuss fund compensation payments. The timed recoveries the reform of the . that would have been received from the insolvent estate are to be determined by an independent valuer and will be included in the account and will reduce the Financial Services Compensation Scheme balance on which interest is calculated. Any interim Statement contributions the FSCS is required to make to the SRR and any compensation the FSCS has actually The Financial Services Secretary to the Treasury paid to depositors will also be included to reduce the (Lord Myners): My honourable friend the Economic balance on which interest is calculated. Secretary (Ian Pearson) has made the following Written When all recoveries have been made the real account Ministerial Statement. will show the net cost of the resolution including The Government are correcting an omission in interest incurred by that date; the hypothetical account Section 214B of the Financial Services and Markets will show the net cost of compensating depositors Act 2000 (FSMA), inserted by Section 171 of the were the institution allowed to fail, including interest Banking Act 2009, relating to the calculation of the up to that date. After independent verification, the contribution of the Financial Services Compensation FSCS may be required to contribute up to the lower of Scheme (FSCS) to special resolution regime (SRR) the two accounts. Payment may be requested before all costs. The necessary amendments are included in the recoveries have been made based on an estimate of the Financial Services Bill but new regulations made under payment required which, if included in the lower of the revised power will have retrospective effect so they the two accounts, would bring the balance when all will take effect from today. recoveries have been made to zero. If, after all recoveries In the event of a bank or building society (an had been made, this turned out to be too large a institution’s) insolvency the FSCS provides statutory contribution, the Treasury would make a balancing compensation to eligible depositors, up to a prescribed payment to the FSCS. limit currently set (in rules made by the Financial Since this power is to have retrospective effect from Services Authority (FSA)) at £50,000. On paying the today, this interest cost will be included in the two compensation, the FSCS takes over the depositors’ accounts kept in relation to Dunfermline Building claims against the estate of the insolvent institution. Society from the date of this announcement. As The FSCS is funded by levies on industry. announced on 30 March 2009, the FSCS will be WS 5 Written Statements[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Written Statements WS 6 required to pay a contribution to resolution costs at The Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (EFRA) the end of the Dunfermline Building Society resolution; Select Committee published its report on its pre-legislative no interim contributions to SRR costs will be required. scrutiny of the Bill on 23 September. The department The interest rate to be used on the two accounts in is grateful to the committee, and to those who gave relation to Dunfermline Building Society is 4.50 per evidence, for their vigour and commitment in developing cent. This rate reflects the rate of interest the FSCS the report. The Government have considered it very would have had to pay were the institution to become carefully. insolvent and funds were borrowed in order to make We believe the consultation responses indicate broad compensation payments to depositors, with recoveries support for our overarching proposals. Both they and made over an estimated five-year period. the EFRA Select Committee’s report gave valuable and useful feedback which has informed the way forward, which is now set out in the command paper published today. That command paper sets out the Flood and Water Management Bill department’s response to each of the recommendations Statement made by the Select Committee. In line with one of the committee’s recommendations, I have also today arranged for copies of a statement The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, from Ofwat to be placed in the House Library. This Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs statement sets out Ofwat’s assessment of the risks to (Lord Davies of Oldham): My right honourable friend water industry investors of the Bill’s proposed changes the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and to the regulatory regime. Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn) has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. Some have argued that it is preferable to wait until it is possible to bring forward a single Bill which I would like to inform the House that today I have makes all the necessary changes to both flood and introduced to Parliament a revised Flood and Water water legislation and brings them together with the Management Bill, laid regulations under the European current statute book. However, the Government are Communities Act to implement the EU Floods Directive clear that they should legislate as soon as possible for and published a command paper setting out the the new clear roles and powers necessary to improve Government’s response to pre-legislative scrutiny and the protection of people from the risk of floods. consultation on the draft Bill. The Bill also meets our commitment to safeguard The floods in 2007 claimed 13 lives and cost our community groups, such as churches and scouts, from economy £3 billion. the unaffordable increases in surface water drainage Sir Michael Pitt undertook a comprehensive review charges they face now. of the lessons to be learnt from the floods. He called Furthermore, the EU Floods Directive is due to be for urgent and fundamental changes in the way the transposed this month. This has led us to lay regulations country is adapting to the increased risk of flooding. now, to avoid unreasonable delays and the increased To ensure that the 5 million people living in flood risk risks of infraction. areas around the country are better protected we are also investing more than ever in maintaining traditional Climate projections suggest that extreme weather flood defences—£2.15 billion in the current spending will happen more frequently in future. Members will round. be aware of the many flood warnings issued this week and the work being carried out at this moment by the Since the 2007, floods the Environment Agency has Environment Agency, local authorities, emergency services completed and maintained 102 flood defence schemes, and the voluntary sector to help protect homes, businesses protecting over 63,000 additional homes in England. and people against the risk of flooding. Our thanks go Operating authorities are currently on course to to those many people and organisations on the front-line, exceed delivery targets and provide better protection tackling flooding, and our thoughts are with those to 160,000 homes over the three years to March 2011. directly affected. In this time, government have also, among other Serious flooding can happen any time. This Bill is measures, provided £15 million funding to local authorities central to reducing that risk. to help them manage local flood risk, and set up a Flood Forecasting Centre which will improve the way we predict potential flooding and the exchange of information between emergency services. G6: Interior Ministers Meeting We also promised legislation as a central part of Statement this programme of action. In April of this year, the UK Government and Welsh Assembly Government published the draft Flood The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home and Water Management Bill for pre-legislative scrutiny Office (Lord West of Spithead): My right honourable and public consultation. friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department The public consultation on the draft Bill in England (Alan Johnson) has today made the following Written and Wales generated over 650 responses. A summary Ministerial Statement. of the responses is also being published today on The informal G6 group of Interior Ministers from the Defra website at www.defra.gov.uk/environment/ France, Germany, Spain, , and the UK flooding/policy/fwmb/. held their most recent meeting in London on 5 November. WS 7 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 8

The UK currently holds the presidency of the G6 be introduced in the current Session and Bills carried group and the meeting was chaired by the Home over from the last Session. It does not include draft Secretary. Bills. The meeting was divided into three working sessions, The list also identifies the lead government department. the first two of which were attended by the core G6 The following Bills extend to Northern Ireland, in Ministers. This group sat again for the final working whole or in part, and deal mainly with excepted or session, with the additional guest attendance of the reserved matters. Discussions will continue between United States Secretary of Homeland Security, Janet the Government and the Northern Ireland Executive Napolitano. to ensure that where provisions that are specifically for The first working session considered the issue of a transferred purpose are included in any of these organised crime, where the Home Secretary presented Bills, the consent of the Northern Ireland Assembly the results of the UK’s recent domestic review: Extending will be sought for them: Our Reach—A Comprehensive Approach to Tackling Bribery Bill (MoJ); Serious Organised Crime, published in July, and asked Cluster Munitions (Prohibitions) Bill (MoD); what more the G6 countries could do together to Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill (MoJ) tackle the threats posed. The group exchanged experiences (introduced in fourth Session); of what had been found to work in each country in tackling organised crime. There was broad agreement Crime and Security Bill (HO); and to the need for organised crime to be raised up the Fiscal Responsibility Bill (HMT). agenda. Ministers recognised the value of working It is intended that the following Bills will extend to together to tackle organised crime, and agreed to more Northern Ireland to varying degrees. They require the sharing of best practice where relevant. consent of the Northern Ireland Assembly in relation During the second session the Ministers considered to those provisions in the devolved field: what benefits data sharing could bring to strengthen Child Poverty Bill (Child Poverty Unit) (introduced borders, improve identity management and facilitate in fourth Session); the prevention and detection of serious organised Equality Bill (Government Equalities Office) crime but also the challenges faced to ensure data were (introduced in fourth Session); secure and protected. There was less of a consensus on Digital Economy Bill (DCMS); and this issue due to the incompatibility between legal Financial Services Bill (HMT). systems in each state. Discussions will continue between the Government The afternoon session opened with a presentation and the Northern Ireland Executive on Bills that by the UK of the current terrorist threat assessment. might include provisions that require the consent of Ministers offered information on the threats posed in the Northern Ireland Assembly. their respective countries. This was followed by a discussion of how to counter radicalisation through The following Bills will have limited or no impact in community engagement, which focused mainly on the Northern Ireland: role of mosques in radicalisation of young people. Children, Schools and Families Bill; Conversation centred on difficulties of mosques preaching Energy Bill; in a non EU language (for early stage interventions), Flood and Water Management Bill; and and considerations of how to better regulate Imams. Personal Care at Home Bill. The Interior Minister of Spain, Alfredo Rubalcaba, also took the opportunity to offer a factual presentation on his plans for the Spanish presidency of the EU, Government: Legislative Programme for which will start on 1 January 2010. There was no Scotland discussion. Statement The next meeting of the G6 is expected to be held in Italy in the first half of next year. The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Davidson of Glen Clova): My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Scotland has made the following Written Government: Legislative Programme for Ministerial Statement. Northern Ireland The legislative programme for the fifth Session was Statement outlined on the 18 November. Eight of the 10 new Bills outlined in the Queen’s Speech in this final Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My right honourable Session of the current Parliament contain provisions friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland that apply to Scotland; once again this is a programme (Shaun Woodward) has made the following Ministerial that will significantly benefit people living in Scotland. Statement. In this Session the Government will focus on supporting The fifth Session UK legislative programme unveiled the economy as we move from recession to recovery in the Queen’s Speech on the 18 November contains and we will take forward measures to support people measures of relevance to the people of Northern living and working in our communities. Ireland. This Statement provides a summary of the legislation The following is a summary of the legislation announced in the Queen’s Speech and its application announced in the Queen’s Speech and its impact in to Scotland. This Statement includes both new Bills Northern Ireland. It includes both new Bills that will that will be introduced shortly, and those Bills that are WS 9 Written Statements[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Written Statements WS 10 carrying-over from the last Session. It does not include Flood and Water Management (Defra)—The Bill draft Bills. The Bills listed in section 1 are likely to generally applies to England and Wales only but an contain provisions requiring the consent of the Scottish LCM will be required for provisions relating to cross- Parliament in line with the Sewel Convention. A brief border reservoir safety. description is provided of the provisions likely to 2. UK Legislation unlikely to contain provisions requiring require consent. Section 2 details Bills that are not the consent of the Scottish Parliament at introduction: likely to contain provisions that require the consent of Discussions will continue between the Government the Scottish Parliament, by way of a Legislative Consent and Scottish Ministers to ensure that, if provisions Motion (LCM). relating to matters which trigger the Sewel Convention The list also identifies the lead government department: are included in any of these Bills during their passage 1. UK Legislation likely to contain provisions requiring at Westminster, the consent of the Scottish Parliament the consent of the Scottish Parliament at introduction: will be sought for them in line with the Sewel Convention: Personal Care at Home Bill (DoH); Discussions will continue between the Government and Scottish Ministers on Bills that might include Children, Schools and Families Bill (DCSF); provisions that trigger the Sewel Convention. The Fiscal Responsibility (HMT); Bills identified within the Queen’s Speech in this section Digital Economy (DCMS); and are as follows: Cluster Munitions (FCO). Bribery (MoJ)—This Bill primarily relates to criminal law which is a devolved matter in Scotland. Following a consultation exercise in Scotland, Scottish Ministers Identity Cards have agreed that the best way to reform the law on Statement bribery in Scotland is via an LCM extending full provisions of this Bill to Scotland. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Child Poverty Bill (HMT) (introduced in the fourth Office (Lord West of Spithead): My honourable friend Session)—This Bill enshrines in law the Government’s the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the commitment to end child poverty by 2020. Four indicators Home Office (Meg Hillier) has today made the following of child poverty are identified by this Bill. An LCM is Written Ministerial Statement. required in order to extend the commitment to those I am pleased to announce that a further Identity matters that are within the competence of the Scottish Cards Act commencement order has been made to Parliament. Constitutional Reform and Governance extend the availability of voluntary identity cards, to (MoJ) (introduced in the fourth Session): The majority members of the public in Greater Manchester starting of the provisions in the Bill extend to Scotland and from Monday 30 November 2009. Bill aims to rebuild trust in our democratic and From that date, applications for voluntary identity constitutional settlement by reinforcing the principles cards may be made by airside workers at Manchester of transparency, accountability and probity across and London City airports and by British citizens who government. An LCM is required for provisions hold a passport or whose passport has recently expired concerning requirements placed upon the Scottish and who live or work in the Greater Manchester area. Ministers in relation to the Civil Service and special Identity cards may also be applied for by people advisors. An LCM is also required for the amendments working in the Home Office in the Greater London concerning time-limits for human rights claims under area or who work in the Identity and Passport Service. the Human Rights and Acts. Crime and Security (Home Office)—The majority Local Transport Act 2008 of this Bill will not apply to Scotland, however provisions that give Scottish Ministers new powers to regulate the Statement private security industry will require a LCM. The Secretary of State for Transport (Lord Adonis): Energy Bill (DECC)—This Bill will commit the My honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary Government to developing the use of clean coal and of State for Transport (Paul Clark) has made the help vulnerable households with their energy Bills. It following Ministerial Statement. will require an LCM for the provisions that relate to funding for up to four commercial-scale carbon capture Following the completion of our public consultation, and storage demonstration projects. we have today published guidance from the Secretary of State to the senior traffic commissioner. The senior Equality Bill (GEO) (introduced in fourth Session)— traffic commissioner is appointed under Section 4D of Equal opportunities is a reserved matter. This Bill the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981, as inserted by requires an LCM as it will amend the Scottish Ministers’ the Local Transport Act 2008. The publication of the functions by allowing them to impose specific public guidance follows a formal consultation, and the sector duties on the Scottish public bodies for the department’s summary of responses has also been three new strands. published today. Financial Services Bill (HMT)—The Bill will strengthen The new guidance represents an important step in governance of the financial sector, control the system the implementation of reforms to the traffic commissioner of rewards and ensure savers and lenders are fully regime, provided for by the Local Transport Act 2008, protected. An LCM will be required for provisions which attracted broad support during the passage of relating to consumer education. the Bill. In particular, there was wide support for the WS 11 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 12 appointment of a senior traffic commissioner and British Psychological Society; the proposed strengthened independence for traffic Calderdale Women’s Centre; commissioners. This is achieved in part by replacing Council for Disabled Children and the Transition powers for the Secretary of State to issue directions to Information Network; individual traffic commissioners with a power to issue guidance to the senior traffic commissioner. Drugscope; Faculty for Forensic and Legal Medicine; The aim of the new guidance is to highlight issues and outcomes which the Secretary of State regards as Fawcett Society; key, and to provide guidance to the senior traffic Independent Advisory Panel on Deaths in Custody; commissioner as to how he might exercise his powers Independent Police Complaints Commission; in relation to those issues. We expect that the senior Keyring; traffic commissioner will want to issue a formal response Magistrates Association; to the new guidance in due course. Mencap; Copies of the guidance and summary of responses have been placed in the House Libraries and are National Association for the Care and Resettlement available at http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/ of Offenders (NACRO); trafficcommissioner/. National Advisory Council for Children’s Mental Health and Psychological Wellbeing; NHS Confederation; Mental Health: Criminal Justice Partnerships in Care; Statement Prison Officers Association (POA); Police Federation; Baroness Thornton: My honourable friend the Minister Prison Reform Trust; of State, Department of Health (Phil Hope) has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. Rethink; On 29 October, I reported progress to Parliament Revolving Doors; on the progress achieved further to my right honourable Royal College of Nursing; and noble friend Lord Bradley’s review of people with Royal College of Psychiatry; mental health problems or learning disabilities in the Sainsbury Centre for Mental Health; criminal justice system. The Government accepted the St Ann’s Community Centre; direction of travel set out by Lord Bradley, and committed Together Working for Wellbeing; and to developing a national delivery plan incorporating a full response to the report’s recommendations. Youth Justice Board. I am pleased to report that Improving Health, Improving Health, Supporting Justice—a National Supporting Justice, the Government’s national delivery Delivery Plan is now available on the Department of plan was published and launched at a cross-departmental Health website at http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication health and criminal justice conference in York on sandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAnd Tuesday 17 November. This delivery plan will contribute Guidance/DH_108606. to key government initiatives around protecting the A copy has been placed in the Library and copies public, reducing health inequalities, reducing reoffending are available to honourable Members from the Vote and health improvement and protection. In particular, Office. it aims to: provide a strategic framework within which local services can deliver quality improvements, and to Railways: Stations communicate the framework to the relevant NHS Statement and criminal justice organisations; set out the actions the Government will take to The Secretary of State for Transport (Lord Adonis): support these improvements; and In May 2009, I invited Sir Peter Hall, Professor of develop a national approach, by building on the Planning at University College London, and Chris good work and good practice that is already underway Green, formerly chief executive of Virgin Trains, to in individual localities and maintain the significant advise on ways to improve railway stations in England impetus and enthusiasm created by Lord Bradley’s and Wales, focusing on getting the basic facilities right report, to drive forward improvements in health as well as considering the broader role of stations in and social care services for offenders. the future. On 29 October, I also reported that Keith Pearson Their report, which I have published, focuses on: (chair of NHS East of England), has been appointed achieving an enhanced and consistent level of as the chair of the Health and Criminal Justice National facilities at each type of station, so that passengers Advisory Group. I am now pleased to inform you that can find what they need and know what to expect; the following organisations have been appointed as a greater emphasis on end-to-end journeys, with members of this group to date: more attention given to helping passengers get to Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO); and from the station by bus, bike or car; and Association of Directors for Social Services (ADASS); more effective integration of public transport into British Medical Association (BMA); the planning of local communities. WS 13 Written Statements[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Written Statements WS 14

These are all vital to the creation of a modern Target Description Target Achievement transport system which promotes individual choice and supports the national economy. The report modernisation of the £23.0 million £34.0 million complements existing government initiatives, such as business within a cost of the £14 million which I recently announced to improve Factory Businesses to the provision for cyclists at stations. achieve: The champions have found that the largest stations, an operating result of £67.6 million £71.3 million including the main termini, are generally up to the cost per disabled £22,000 £26,000 standards which passengers should expect. But there employee of are stations in the next tier—the major interchanges— Employment Service which fall below the required standard and are in business to achieve urgent need of attention. The Government and Network an operating result of £29.1 million £29.1 million Rail are committed to a rolling programme of total job entries of 7,500 7,640 improvements to major stations, and I have agreed of which WORKSTEP 5,500 5,874 with Network Rail that they will make up to £50 million job entries will be available to enable an early start to be made on the 10 key stations highlighted in the report. My department Remploy will publish its annual report and accounts will be working closely with Network Rail to decide today giving further detail of its performance throughout on a programme of work, funded by them, developer 2008-09. Copies of the annual report and accounts and local contributions and through the franchising will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. process. The investment will of course be subject to a In addition, I have, on behalf of my right honourable satisfactory business case and the prospect of an adequate friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, financial return. I am challenging the industry and written to the chairman of Remploy formally approving local government to raise part of the money required the agreed 2009-10 performance and resources agreement for each of these stations themselves. It is very important between the department and the company.The agreement that the additional programme funding which I am has been negotiated on behalf of my right honourable announcing should be supplemented in this way so friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. that as many stations as possible can be tackled. The targets for 2009-10 are: It will be helpful and constructive to give organisations in the industry, the devolved Administrations and Target Description Target local government an opportunity to comment on the To live within the company’s financial means many very detailed proposals in the report before we in the 2009-10 financial year and achieve: decide how to take them forward. I want to be sure operational funding result of £128.5 million that when we implement the report we give priority to modernisation of the business within a cost £10.1 million the most urgent actions and get the best possible value of for the taxpayers’ investment. Factory Businesses to achieve: I am placing copies of the champions’ report, the an operating result of £71.5 million Government’s initial response and the consultation I cost per disabled employee of £26,000 have launched in the Libraries of both Houses. The text of these documents is also being posted on my Employment Service business to achieve department’s website. an operating result of £34.4 million total job entries of 9,860 of which Workstep job entries will be 7,000 Remploy Statement The full performance and resource agreement for 2009-10 will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Schools: Primary Curriculum Department for Work and Pensions (Lord McKenzie of Luton): My honourable friend the Parliamentary Under- Statement Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Jonathan Shaw) has made the following Written Ministerial The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Statement. Department for Children, Schools and Families (Baroness Remploy’s achievement against its targets set by Morgan of Drefelin): My right honourable friend the Government for 2008-09: Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families (Ed Balls) has made the following Written Ministerial Target Description Target Achievement Statement.

To live within the Following the announcement in the Queen’s Speech company’s financial yesterday about our intention to introduce a new means in the 2008-09 primary national curriculum from September 2011, I financial year and am today publishing the details of what the primary achieve: curriculum will look like and announcing improved operational funding £121.5 million £121.5 million accountability arrangements for primary schools result of from 2010. WS 15 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 16

Primary Curriculum 83 per cent agreed that the proposals to integrate ICT through the curriculum will help children use The new national curriculum has been developed technology to enhance their learning; following an independent review of the primary curriculum by Sir Jim Rose. In January 2008, I asked 70 per cent agreed that the proposed curriculum Sir Jim to carry out the review, the first in 10 years, to will give schools more flexibility to adapt to the update the primary curriculum and ensure that it is needs of their children; and the very best it can be to meet the needs of all children 69 per cent agreed that the proposed curriculum is in the 21st century. Sir Jim published his interim less prescriptive than the existing curriculum and report in December 2008 and final report and draft provides schools with greater flexibility to adapt new primary curriculum at the end of April 2009. In the curriculum to the needs of their pupils. carrying out his review, Sir Jim drew on a wide range In the light of such overwhelming support from of responses including over 1,000 e-mails and letters, teachers, parents and pupils, we have agreed with 50 primary school visits to see what is already happening Sir Jim that the new primary national curriculum will in good schools to bring learning to life, and evidence be organised into six broad areas of learning, rather of international best practice in other successful countries. than the current subjects with less detailed programmes He was supported by an advisory group made up of of learning to allow greater focus on strengthening teachers and head teachers and an expert editorial literacy and numeracy skills and more time to study group to write the new curriculum made up of subject essential knowledge and skills in depth. There is also a experts. greater emphasis on developing ICT capability and His recommendations, which we accepted in full, personal learning and thinking skills and smoothing were published and well received by the teaching transition to and from primary school. profession in April this year. Underpinning Sir Jim’s The six areas of learning are: recommendations and the design of the new curriculum understanding English, communication and languages; was attention to building on best practice, securing the mathematical understanding; essentials of literacy, numeracy, ICT capability and personal skills and development as part of every child’s understanding the arts; entitlement to a broad, balanced and well rounded historical, geographical and social understanding; primary education. And to achieve this through both understanding physical development, health and rigorous and direct subject teaching and equally rigorous wellbeing; and and enriching cross-curricular studies. To quote his final report: scientific and technological understanding. While RE is not part of the statutory national “Our best primary schools already demonstrate that, far from curriculum it is no less important and we will be narrowing learning, these priorities—literacy, numeracy, ICT skills and personal development—are crucial for enabling children to publishing an illustrative programme of learning alongside access a broad and balanced curriculum. Excellence in the basics new non-statutory guidance in January. supports the achievement of breadth and balance in primary Due to the positive response to Jim Rose’s proposals, education. few changes have been made to the proposed areas of Our primary schools also show that high standards are best learning. However, after consulting with parents, teachers, secured when essential knowledge and skills are learned both the science community and other interested parties, through direct, high quality subject teaching and also through pupils will be expected to explicitly cover evolution as this content being applied and used in cross-curricular studies”. part of their learning. Learning about evolution is an The proposed curriculum was the subject of extensive important part of science education, and pupils already consultation over the summer by the Qualifications learn about it at secondary school. The revised area of and Curriculum Development Agency (QCDA) and learning for historical, geographical and social the results of that consultation are also being published understanding also confirms learning about British today. QCDA received 1,057 responses to the general history is a key feature. consultation survey; 507 responses from a consultation The new primary national curriculum promotes: specifically designed for children; and 375 responses high standards and good progress for all learners, from a consultation specifically designed for parents. with no child left behind; In addition, QCDA held 49 focus groups with head teachers, initial teacher training providers, local authorities, a strengthened focus on securing essential literacy organisations concerned with inclusion issues, unions and numeracy skills with opportunities to develop, and professional representatives. They also ran a series use and apply these skills embedded throughout of conferences with over 700 attendees made up of the new curriculum; governors, education professionals, subject associations, increased expectations of children’s ICT capability teachers and head teachers. and the use of technology to enhance teaching and The findings of the consultation showed high levels learning; of support, between 70 per cent and 80 per cent, for a continued entitlement to a broad, balanced and Sir Jim’s main proposals. In addition: coherent curriculum through the creation of broad areas of learning, which will be underpinned by the 70 per cent agreed that the areas of learning help new “pupil guarantee”; teachers plan meaningful learning experiences; recognition that children need a well-rounded school 71 per cent agreed that they will help children make experience to succeed, and that personal development useful links between related subjects; is essential to wellbeing and achievement; and WS 17 Written Statements[19 NOVEMBER 2009] Written Statements WS 18

better transition from the early years through to report card, which will be underpinned by the new primary and through to secondary education. powers we are taking in the Bill. We are currently It will also provide schools with a powerful tool to consulting with stakeholders on the school report tackle continuous school improvement through self card, and we will consider data on teacher assessments assessment, renewal, development and review of the as part of that consultation. These changes taken effectiveness of their curriculum. The reduced prescription together are further evidence of our commitment to will encourage teachers to use their professional judgment strong accountability. and expertise to design the curriculum and allow I am placing a copy of the correspondence between schools to increase flexibility to tailor learning to their myself and the chief executive of the QCDA, Andrew local circumstances and the needs of all children in Hall, concerning the contract for the 2010 tests in the their care. Libraries of both Houses. Setting out the content of the new curriculum in three phases—early, middle, later primary—will aid planning for progression and help reduce the dip in Swine Flu performance in the middle years of primary school. It Statement also recognises the opportunities that play-based learning offers for approaches into key stage 1 and encourages active learning in the whole primary phase. Baroness Thornton: My honourable friend the Minister Our new curriculum lies at the heart of our policies of State, Department of Health (Gillian Merron) has to raise standards and help every school to improve all made the following Written Ministerial Statement. of the time. It should help children become the very A report of exercise peak practice has been placed best they can be. We live in a changing world, and our in the Library. Copies are available to honourable new curriculum will ensure that our children are fully Members from the Vote Office. prepared for the opportunities and challenges of life Exercise peak practice consisted of 10 strategic, in the 21st century. tabletop exercises, one led by each strategic health Primary School Accountability authority in England to help prepare for a possible In May 2009, I accepted in full the recommendations second wave of swine flu this winter. of the Expert Group on Assessment. They recommended The events achieved the intended aim of exercising that key stage 2 tests in English and mathematics the management of the NHS and social care systems should remain in place because they are vital for against the backdrop of normal seasonal activity and accountability and for providing information to parents the rising threat posed by swine flu. The report also about their child’s progress. summarises the NHS Board statements of readiness They also made a number of recommendations to for responding to swine flu, which show that there strengthen the quality of teacher assessment and said are robust leadership and governance arrangements that, “As these changes are made and as chartered in place. assessors are introduced, DCSF should monitor progress We must not underestimate the threat that swine flu in strengthening the reliability and consistency of teacher still poses but all our pandemic planning means that assessment, and in developing an infrastructure which both NHS and social care are well placed to respond. provides assurance about this”. In line with the Expert Group’s recommendation that tests should remain in place, I have today approved Tax Law Rewrite Project QCDA’s choice of preferred test operations contractor Statement for delivering English and maths tests for 11 year-olds in 2010. Following consultations with key stakeholders and The Financial Services Secretary to the Treasury with members of the Expert Group, I have also decided (Lord Myners): My right honourable friend the Financial to take a further step in recognising the value of Secretary to the Treasury (Stephen Timms) has made teachers’ own assessments. From 2010, we will publish the following Written Ministerial Statement. primary schools’ teacher assessment data for pupils in I am pleased to tell the House that today we are year 6 in English, maths and science. This will be introducing the Corporation Tax Bill and the Taxation published alongside test data for English and maths in (International and Other Provisions) Bill. These two our achievement and attainment tables. It is also my Bills complete a 13-year task of rewriting the majority intention, from 2011, to introduce a light touch local of direct tax legislation for individuals and businesses moderation process for this teacher assessment. We that started in 1996. They are the Tax Law Rewrite will consult with schools, local authorities, other project’s final Bills and maintain the project’s high stakeholders and the expert group on the introduction standards in making tax legislation significantly easier of a system that will best support teachers and strengthen to use. This would not have been possible without the their assessments. expertise, time and commitment of all those involved I have always said that the assessment and testing in commenting on the provisions during consultation system is not set in stone and that what is important is and I would like to thank them and the members of that it works best for pupils and schools and provides the Tax Law Rewrite project’s Steering and Consultative parents with the information that they need. To that Committees for their invaluable help in making the end from 2011, we are introducing the new school project’s work such a success. WS 19 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 20

The Bills were published in draft on 3 March 2009 Taxes Act 1988 or one of the Finance Acts. The scope for consultation and response documents reporting on of the Bills was agreed with the project’s consultative the outcome of that consultation were published on and steering committees which together include the 3 September this year. main representative bodies and other users and I am The Corporation Tax Bill completes the rewrite of pleased by the wide support they have amongst the tax the main corporation tax provisions. The Taxation community. Like all previous Bills prepared by the (International and Other Provisions) Bill rewrites a project, they rewrite the law without changing its number of international tax provisions and also rewrites general effect. All the provisions have benefited from and relocates some provisions which would otherwise detailed consultation and the drafting style and structure be left unhelpfully in the Income and Corporation is in line with that of the previous rewrite Bills. WA 243 Written Answers[12 NOVEMBER 2009] Written Answers WA 244

the numbers of student visas they issue for those Written Answers students due to attend different private colleges in the United Kingdom. [HL6220] Thursday 12 November 2009 The following Questions and Answers relate to the 2008-09 Session and should have been published last week. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord West of Spithead): We are currently working Biometric Data with accreditation bodies on how we can ensure they Question are aware of our specific concerns on private colleges Asked by Lord Lester of Herne Hill as part of our review with these organisations. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to legislate to abide by the judgment of the European Court of Human Rights of 4 December 2008 in S and Marper v United Kingdom so as to Michael Savage end the practice of holding DNA samples of individuals who are arrested but later acquitted or Question have the charges against them dropped; and, if so, Asked by Lord Pearson of Rannoch whether they will ensure that the practice is ended and legislation enacted during the present Parliament. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the [HL6206] United States radio host Mr Michael Savage has been banned from entering the United Kingdom; The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home and, if so, why. [HL6210] Office (Lord West of Spithead): We will bring forward proposals to change domestic law in response to the judgment as soon as parliamentary time allows. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord West of Spithead): As was announced Higher Education: Accreditation Bodies by the former Home Secretary in the press release of Question 5 May 2009, Michael Savage was excluded from the Asked by Lord Laird United Kingdom as he was considered to be engaging in unacceptable behaviour by seeking to provoke others To ask Her Majesty’s Government what information to serious criminal acts and fostering hatred which they will provide to approved accreditation bodies might lead to inter-community violence. This exclusion for international student education providers about remains in place.

Thursday 19 November 2009

ALPHABETICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Col. No. Col. No. Afghanistan: Call-out ...... 1 Government: Legislative Programme for Scotland ...... 8

Armed Forces: Personnel...... 1 Identity Cards...... 10

Civil Law Reform Bill...... 2 Local Transport Act 2008...... 10

EU: Agriculture and Fisheries Council...... 3 Mental Health: Criminal Justice ...... 11

Financial Services Compensation Scheme ...... 3 Railways: Stations...... 12 Remploy ...... 13 Flood and Water Management Bill...... 5 Schools: Primary Curriculum ...... 14 G6: Interior Ministers Meeting...... 6 Swine Flu...... 18 Government: Legislative Programme for Northern Ireland...... 7 Tax Law Rewrite Project...... 18

Thursday 12 November 2009

ALPHABETICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN ANSWERS

Col. No. Col. No. Biometric Data ...... 243 Michael Savage ...... 244 Higher Education: Accreditation Bodies...... 243 NUMERICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN ANSWERS

Col. No. Col. No. [HL6206] ...... 243 [HL6220] ...... 244 [HL6210] ...... 244 Volume 715 Thursday No. 2 19 November 2009

CONTENTS

Thursday 19 November 2009 Digital Economy Bill [HL] ...... 27 Cluster Munitions (Prohibition) Bill [HL]...... 27 Bribery Bill [HL]...... 27 Northern Ireland Assembly Members Bill [HL] ...... 27 Contaminated Blood (Support for Infected and Bereaved Persons) Bill [HL]...... 28 Marriage (Wales) Bill [HL] ...... 28 Live Music Bill [HL]...... 28 Children’s Rights Bill [HL] ...... 28 Rehabilitation of Offenders (Amendment) Bill [HL]...... 28 Building Regulations (Amendment) Bill [HL] ...... 29 Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies and Credit Unions Bill [HL] ...... 29 Powers of Entry etc. Bill ]HL]...... 29 Consumer Emissions (Climate Change) Bill [HL] ...... 29 Constitutional Reform Bill [HL]...... 29 Marine Navigation Aids Bill [HL] ...... 30 Damages (Asbestos-related Conditions) Bill [HL] First Reading ...... 30 Committee of Selection Membership Motion ...... 30 Queen’s Speech Debate (2nd Day) ...... 30 Written Statements ...... WS 1 Written Answers...... WA 243