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Berlin 15 April 2005 Transcript r~ ' ST .. fI' .................... Yale-UN OralOral HistoryHistory Interview with MikeMike BerlinBerlin April 15,15, 20020055 New YorYorkk Interviewer: Jameslames SutterliSutterlinn YALE -UNITED NATIONS ORAL HISTORY PROJECPROJECTT MIKE BERLIBERLINN APRIL 15, 20052005,, UNITED NATIONS, NEW YORYORKK INTERVIEWER- JAMES SUTTERLISUTTERLINN TABLE OF CONTENTS Aime, JJean-Claude.ean-Claude. 20 Arafat, Yasser. 11 Archbishop Makarios III. • 7 Baker, JJames.ames. • 7 Bork, Robert. 4 Bunche, Ralphe Johnson . 7 Bush, George Herbert Walker (President of the United States of 14, 16 America: 1989-1993). • .Cordovez, Diego. 3,20 ·Cyprus.-Cyprus. • 3,9 De Soto, Alvaro. • 19,20 Denktash, Rauf. • 3 El Salvador. • 18 Falklands Crisis. • 13 Finger, Max (Fanner(Fonner Ambassador of the United States of America to 1,6, 7 the United Nations). • Fredrick, Pauline. • 9 Gorbachev, Mikhail Sergevich (President of the leader ofthe Soviet 3 Union: 1985-1991). Gromyko, Andrei Andreyevich . 10 Guiliani, Francois. 11,12,13 Hume,Burne, Cameron. • 6 Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988). • 16 Jakobson, Max. .. 2 Jhabvala, Darius. .. Jonah,Jonah, James.James. .. 55 Kekkonen, Drho.Urho. • 22 Kilometer 101. .. 5 Kissinger, Henry. .. 3,4,5,7,9,20 Koh, TommyTommy.. 77 Lake, Tony. .. 77 Lesiovsky, Victor. .. 22 Malik, Jacob. • 4 Moynihan, Daniel Patrick. .. 9, 10 Nassif,Nassif, Ramses. • 11 Nicaragua. .. 17,17, 1818 Nixon, Richard (President ofthethe United States: 1969-1974) •• 44 Papandreou, Andreas. .. 3 .Pardo, Arvid. • 11 . Perez de Cuellar,Cu611ar, Javier(Secretary-GeneralJavier(Secretary-Genera1 ofthethe United NationsNations:: 3, 11, 12,12, 13, 14,14, 15, 15, 1982-1991). .. 16,16, 17, 18,18, 1919 Powell, Bill. •. 1111 Reagan, RonaldRona1d (President of the United States of America: 19811981­­ 15, 17 1989). ROsenstock, Bob. .. 6 Saturday Night Massacre (October 20, 1973). •• 4 Sherry, George. .. 6,206,20 Sonnenfeld, Hal. .. 77 Suez Canal Crisis. .. 5 U Thant, Maha Thray Sithu (Secretary-General ofthethe United NationsNations:: 10 1961-1971).1961-1971). .. United Nations Emergency Force IIII (U1~E(U1,{EFF II).11). •. 4,5,64,5,6 ." Urquhart, Sir Brian (Former Under-Secretary-GeneralUnder-Secretary-Genera1 ofofthe the United 4,5,6,4, 5,6, 13,2013, 20 Nations). .. Vance, Cyrus. 7 Waldheim, Kurt(Secretary-GeneraloftheKurt(Secretary-General of the United Nations: 1972-1981) 2,4,8,10,112,4,8, 10,11 Yitzhak, Shamir (Former Prime Minister ofIsrael).oflsrael). 10 YaLe-UnitedYale-United Nations Oral HistorHistoryy InterviewInterview with Mike BerliBerlinn April 15, 20020055 United Nations, New York City, New YorYorkk Interviewer:Interviewer: Jameslames SutterliSutterlinn James Sutterlin: Thank you very much, Mike, forfor agreeing toto participate inin this project. If II can, I'dI'd likelike toto begin by asking you toto discuss a little bit about how well you were prepared toto taketake over thethe assignment here at thethe United Nations as a correspondent, II believe inin 1967? Mike Berlin: r carnecametoto thethe United Nations on May 3131stst 1967. II was totallytotally unprepared.. ..I I was supposedsupposed toto go out toto Riker's Island, which isis thethe Municipal Prison inin New York City, and do a feature story about thethe first drug program inin a municipal prison, drug treatmenttreatment program. They called me at my home and said don't go there,there, go toto thethe United Nations, our UN man isis sick today.today. So II came toto UN Headquarters not even knowing where thethe men's roomroom was, or unfortunately, not having readread thethe firstfirst 12 pages of thethe New York Times ininthethe preceding couple ofyears because II had focusedfocused on domestic news and was totallytotally unaware thatthat therethere was about toto be a war inin thethe Middle-East. I ranran intointo 2 people who were absolutely essential toto me inin thosethose firstfirst days, one was DanusDmus IhabvalaJhabvala who was an Indian,Indian, a Parsi and was at thatthat timetime thethe UN Bureau Chief ..for thetheBoston GLobe.Globe. Previously I had known him because he was thethe UN Bureau Chief foi'for thethe New York Herald Tribune, which II worked forfor when he was therethere .. covering thethe UN forfor them.them. He was very kind toto me, he became my mentor at thethe UN and toldtold me what toto looklook forfor~~ what toto ask about, who toto speak with and who all thesethese people were thatthat I should be approaching. The second person was Max Finger, who was one of thethe American ambassadors, whom II bumped intointo at thethe press releaserelease rackrack thatthat firstfirst day, doing something about definition of aggression, which he was on a committee thatthat was tryingtrying toto negotiate a definition of aggression. He was very kind toto me and would always Looklook out forfor me and when he saw reportersreporters therethere and ask me if!if! understood what was going on. With people Like that,that, therethere were many people of a similar disposition thatthat I encountered here, I was able toto Learnlearn quickly on thethe jobjob and not make tootoo much a fooLfool of myself writing about thethe war thatthat began several days later.later. JS: Well thilt's precisely what II wanted toto ask next. What were your main reportinreportingg responsibilitiesresponsibilities so toto speakspeak?? ME: Well II came here forfor thethe New York Post, which was thenthen a serious, liberalliberal newspaper with real news inin itit and a very small staff which was very thinlythinly spread. So I became thethe internationalinternational news staff of thethe New York Post. They had no correspondents abroad on staff. They had one person inin Washington who didn't cover State Department or internationalinternational affairs. So fromfrom UN Headquarters II was writing reactionreaction stories about various events thatthat tooktook place abroad, using as my base thethe UN and thethe contacts ii could have throughthrough thethe UN with representativesrepresentatives ofvarious governments 1 involvedinvolved inin thosethose internationalinternational thingsthings thatthat we did not have staff out covering inin thethe field. JS: And thatthat worked from here inin New York? MB: ItIt worked toto a degree inin thethe sense thatthat theythey used wire services for breaking news and theythey used me for thethe analytical pieces and thethe background and second day stories about what itit all means and why itit happens, how thethe Americans are going toto react toto this,this, how thethe Russians are going toto react toto this,this, and stories of thatthat kind. So very often thethe Associated Press would have thethe leadlead story and II would have a secondary story on a largelarge internationalinternational event thatthat was takingtaking place. IS: Had you known about Kurt Waldheim before you came here or anything about him as Secretary-General or was thatthat also tabulatabula rosa? ..MB: II knew him of course because since II came inin '67,'67, he was thethe Austrian ambassador at one point and thenthen Foreign Minister before he became Secretary-General and II covered very intensivelyintensively thethe election campaign for Secretary-General as a reporter here. I remember thethe chief Soviet KGB operative at thethe UN Victor Lesiovsky tellingtelling myself and 2 other journalistsjournalists inin thethe Delegates Lounge, we will never allow a Finnish candidate named Max Jakobson toto become Secretary-General even ifif thethe President of Finland Urho Kekkonen gets down on his knees inin Red Square. He said itit and we all went with that;that; itit was public; itit was quite clear at thatthat point thenthen thatthat Waldheim would be thethe victor. We ha.d, ~ourtes~ourtesyy of thethe United Nations, a press release with his biography, which said ..thatthat he was injuredinjured on thethe Soviet front early inin thethe war and spent thethe rest of thethe war years as a lawlaw student inin Vienna. We didn't challenge it,it, nobody thoughtthought toto challenge it.it. ItIt was his malleability inin dealing with thethe big powers thatthat was a controversial aspect ofhischaiacter whenWhen he was running for Secretary-General. We all wrote at thethe timetime thatthat thatthat was what endeared him toto thethe big powers. JS: Even then?then? MB: Even then,then, even before he tooktook thethe office. We knew, we were told thatthat theythey likedliked him because he would be malleable and not make troubletrouble for them.them. IS: And did you find thatthat he made himself available toto thethe press fairly early inin his tenure?tenure? MB: He was available toto thethe press and he was much more available toto me when, starting in1973,in1973, I also became thethe part-time correspondent at thethe United Nations for thethe W~shingtoW~shingtonn Post, and thenthen of course he would seek me out and occasionally ask me toto come upstairs for an exclusive interviewinterview on-the-record. I had no need toto speak with him off-the-record. The problem was inin his press conferences and his interviews,interviews, he seldom produced anything worth writing about. As I said at this conference we attended yesterday, very often I had troubletrouble even writing notes inin my notebook about what he was tellingtelling me, which was justjust thethe most obvious information thatthat was perfectly available and had no insightinsight or exclusivity toto it.it. He was available but not of much use 2 journalistically.joumalistically. JS: He was involved in a number of the so-called crises that were going on at that time. He did make an effort to bring about, not being the first or the last, a settlement of Cyprus. Was there any particular press briefing or background briefing or anything else done about Cyprus in those years? MB: In those years if you wanted to find out about Cyprus you would go speak to George Sherry who was the Cyprus man among the peacekeepers. He was, to an extent available, he would sit and have lunch with us in the UNCA Club all the time and talk most entertainingly about his days as an interpreter, which is what he started out here at the United Nations as.
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