COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

TUESDAY, MARCH 24, 1'981

SESSION OF 1981 165TH OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY No. 17

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES An act amending "The General County Assessment Law," approved May 22, 1933 (P. L. 853, No. 155), restricting reassess- The House convened at 11 a.m., e.s.t. ments on property of certain senior citizens.

THE SPEAKER (MATTHEW J. RYAN) Referred to Committee on LOCAL GOVERNMENT, IN THE CHAIR March 23, 1981. PRAYER I No. 944 By Representative MILLER An Act amending the "Public Welfare Code," approved June REV. DARWYN J. NACE, chaplain of the House of 13, 1967 (P. L. 31, No. 21), further providing for State blind Representatives and pastor of Felton Bethany United Meth- pensions and for medical assistance. odist Church, Felton, Pennsylvania, offered the following Referred to Committee on HEALTH AND WELFARE, prayer: March 23, 1981. Let us pray: No. 945 By Representative MILLER Almighty God, we approach Your throne of grace with - An Act amending the act of May 31, 1933 (P. L. 1108, No. thankful hearts in acknowledgement of all the many blessings 272), entitled as amended, "An act providing for the appoint- of life. We seek to do Your will on a daily basis. Many times ment, promotion, reduction, removal and reinstatement of paid we have failed You; nevertheless, You never leave us nor officers, firemen and employes of fire departments "*," forsake us. For this realization of Your presence we are extending the probationary period for appointments to fire thankful. No matter who we are or where we are in life, we departments. have already realized that You are by our side. If we have not Referred to Committee on URBAN AFFAIRS, March 23, already done so, we come to Your place this day to be with 1981. You and You with us. And so, with our dependence upon No. 946 By Representatives SPENCER and BERSON You, humbly we ask Your blessing upon each one of us both now and forever more. Amen. An Act amending Title 15 (Corporations and Unincorporated Associations) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing for the incorporation and regulation of corporations, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ***, and making editorial changes. (The Pledge of Allegiance was enunciated by members.) I Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, March 23, 1981. I No. 947 By Representatives SPENCER and BERSON JOURNAL APPROVAL POSTPONED An Act amending Title 9 (Burial Grounds), 18 (Crimes and Offenses), 40 (Insurance) and 67 (Public Welfare) of the Penn- The SPE4KER. Without objection, approval of the sylvania Consolidated Statutes; *** and repealing parts of acts Journal for Monday, March 23, 1981, will be postponed until relating to certain crimes and offenses. printed. The Chair hears none. Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, March 23, 1981. JOURNAL APPROVAL No. 948 By Representatives SPENCER and BERSON An Act amending Title 24 (Education) of the Pennsylvania The SPEAKER. The Journal of Tuesday, March 10, 1981, Consolidated Statutes, adding provisions relating to incorporated is now in print. Are there any corrections to this Journal? If institutions. not, and without objection, the Journal stands approved. The Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, March 23, 1981. Chair hears none. No. 949 By Representatives SPENCER and BERSON HOUSE BILLS An Act amending Title 59 (Partnerships) of the Pennsylvania INTRODUCED AND REFERRED Consolidated Statutes, adding provisions relating to foreign limited partnerships and making a conforming amendment to No. 943 By Representatives MILLER and Title 42 as to foreign partnerships and other entities. MOEHLMANN I Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, March 23, 1981. 388 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24,

No. 950 By Representatives SPENCER and BERSON No. 956 By Representatives BROWN, JACKSON, An Act amending Titles 54 (Names) of the Pennsylvania HORGOS, MORRIS, MILLER, COHEN, Consolidated Statutes, addine, revised, codified and comoiled WOZNIAK, PISTELLA, PERZEL and provisions relating to names aid marks and making conforking WHITE and related amendments to 15 (Corporations and Unincorpo- rated Associations) and 18 (Crimes and Offenses) and separately An Act requiring stockholders meetings of public service enacting certain related provisions of law. companies to be open to members of the news media. Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, March 23, 1981. Referred to Committee on CONSUMER AFFAIRS, March 23, 1981. No. 951 By Representatives WIGGINS, BARBER, EVANS, J. D. WILLIAMS, OLIVER, No. 957 By Representatives BROWN, JACKSON, PUCCIARELLI, MclNTYRE, HORGOS, MORRIS, MILLER, COHEN, McMONAGLE, RIEGER, EMERSON, WOZNIAK, PISTELLA, SWAIM, WAMBACH, WOZNIAK, STEWART and PERZEL, WHITE and MRKONIC RYBAK An Act amending Title 66 (Public Utilities) of the Penn- sylvania Consolidated Statutes, prohibiting public utilities from An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Penn- sylvania Consolidated Statutes, by making it a crime to test phar- passing on to their customers costs incurred for public relations maceutical products without written disclosure to the recioient. services. Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, March 23, 1981. Referred to Committee on CONSUMER AFFAIRS, March 23, 1981. No. 952 By Representative NOYE No. 958 By Representatives BROWN, JACKSON, An Act authorizing the Department of General Services with HORGOS, MORRIS, MILLER, COHEN, the approval of the Governor to grant an easement to Joseph Trostle in Tyrone Township, Perry County, Pennsylvania. WOZNIAK, PISTELLA, PERZEL and WHITE Referred to Committee on STATE GOVERNMENT, An Act amending Title 66 (Public Utilities) of the Penn- March 23, 1981. sylvania Consolidated Statutes, requiring electric utility compa- No. 953 By Representatives KUKOVICH, nies to carry insurance to cover the cost of cleaning up the plant CUNNINGHAM, JACKSON, WACHOB, and the cost of purchasing electricity for resale after a nuclear accident. FISCHER, SPITZ, SIEMINSKI and DeWEESE Referred to Committee on CONSUMER AFFAIRS, March 23, 1981. An Act amending the act of May 31, 1893 (P. L. 188, No. 138), referred to as the Legal Holiday Law, changing the day for No. 959 By Representative J. L. WRIGHT the observance of Memorial Day. An Act amending the "Tax Reform Code of 1971," approved Referred to Committee on STATE GOVERNMENT, March 4, 1971 (P. L. 6, No. 2), further providing for credits March 23, 1981. against tax imposed by other states. No. 954 By Representatives BLAUM, Referred to Committee on FINANCE, March 23, 1981. CAPPABIANCA, COHEN, BELARDI, No. 960 By Representatives MACKOWSKI, STEIGHNER, CALTAGIRONE, COSLETT, MICOZZIE, CIVERA, WASS, LETTERMAN, KUKOVICH, MAIALE, PICCOLA, LEVI, BOYES, DAIKELER, SALVATORE, WACHOB, MclNTYRE, SAURMAN, FRYER, GLADECK, MERRY, CORDISCO, WILSON, RASCO and E. Z. TAYLOR, LEWIS, BURD, WARGO W. D. HUTCHINSON, WACHOB, An Act providing for the annual licensing of youth camps and CUNNINGHAM, HEISER, FLECK, for regulations pertaining to health and safety of such camps; SIEMINSKI, NOYE, PETERSON, DUFFY, defining the duties of the Department of Health and prescribing LASHINGER, STEWART, W. W. FOSTER penalties. and -FREIND - -- Referred to Committee on HEALTH AND WELFARE. An Act amending the act of June IS, 1974 (P. L. 359, No. March 23, 1981. 1201, referred to as the Municipal Police Education and Training No. 955 By Representatives BROWN, HORGOS, Law, increasing the commission membership and quorum requirements. MORRIS, MILLER, COHEN, WOZNIAK, PISTELLA, SWAIM and WHITE Referred to Committee on LOCAL GOVERNMENT, March 23, 1981. An Act preventing the establishment of burial grounds for the disposal of radioactive waste material and making a repeal. No. 961 By Representatives MANMILLER, DlNlNNl Referred to Committee on MINES AND ENERGY and PICCOLA MANAGEMENT, March 23, 1981. 1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 389

An Act making an appropriation to the Tri-County Associa- An Act amending the "Commonwealth Attorneys Act," tion for the Blind, Inc. aooroved. . October 15. 1980 (No. 164). imoosina vowers and dutic, on the Office of Attorney General relating;o~supervision Referred to Committee on APPROPRIATIONS, and aJn~inistrationoithe Penn\yl\,ania Crime Commission. March 23, 1981. Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, March 23, 1981. No. %2 By Representatives MOEHLMANN, E. H. SMITH, REBER and MILLER No. 969 By Representatives SALVATORE, WESTON, WOGAN, PERZEL and ROCKS An Act amending the "Liquor Code," approved April 12, I951 (P. L. 90, No. 21). authorizing special occasion permits for An Act amending Title 71 (State Government) of the Penn- veterans' organizations. sylvania Consolidated Statutes, further defining the term "super- annuation age." Referred to Committee on LIQUOR CONTROL, March 23, 1981. Referred to Committee on STATE GOVERNMENT, March 23, 1981. No. %3 By Representatives MOEHLMANN, JACKSON, WENGER and MILLER No. 970 By Representatives PHILLIPS, LETTERMAN, ALDEN, HASAY, VROON, An Act amending "The County Code," approved August 9, BRANDT, NOYE, JOHNSON, GRIECO, 1955 (P. L. 323, No. 130). further providing for the appointment ARTY, STUBAN, DININNI, LEHR, of assistant county solicitors. MRKONlC and GEIST Referred to Committee on LOCAL GOVERNMENT, March 23, 1981. An Act amending the "State Highway Law," approved June 1, 1945 (P. L. 1242, No. 420), prohibiting the charging of a fee to No. 964 By Representatives MOEHLMANN, certain organizations for the erection of a sign in a right-of-way. JACKSON and MILLER Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, An Act amending the "Mental Health Procedures Act," March 23, 1981. approved July 9, 1976 (P. L. 817, No. 143), further providing for the confidentiality of records. No. 971 By Representatives SWEET and HOEFFEL An Act amending the "Pennsylvania Election Code," Referred to Committee on HEALTH AND WELFARE, approved June 3, 1937 (P. L. 1333, No. 320), restricting fund March 23, 1981. raising by certain elected officials. No. 965 By Representatives MOEHLMANN and Referred to Committee on STATE GOVERNMENT, JACKSON March 23, 1981. An Act amending the "Tax Reform Code of 1971," approved No. 972 By Representatives MACKOWSKI, March 4, 1971 (P. L. 6, No. 2), further providing for the exclu- BOWSER, HASAY, COSLETT, sion of certain residential vertical or inclined conveyancing devices. CALTAGIRONE and MERRY Referred to Committee on FINANCE, March 23, 1981. An Act amending the "Liquor Code," approved April 12, 1951 (P. L. 90, No. 21), providing for the exchange of certain Nu. 966 By Representatives MOEHLMANN, licenses in certain cases. JACKSON and MILLER Referred to Committee on LIQUOR CONTROL, An Act amending the "Pennsylvania Election Code," March 23, 1981. approved June 3, 1937 (P. L. 1333, No. 320), further providing for rcporling by candidates, political committees and other No. 973 By Representatives PIEVSKY, COHEN, persons and making an editorial correction. A. K. HUTCHINSON, COWELL, McCALL, OLIVER, TRELLO, DeWEESE, Referred to Committee on STATE GOVERNMENT, WHITE, STUBAN, COLAFELLA, .March 23, 1981. MANDERINO, CORDISCO and No. 967 By Representatives A. K. HUTCHINSON, DOMBROWSKI PETRARCA, CLARK and KUKOVICH An Act amending "The Administrative Code of 1929." An Act amending the "Pennsylvania Crime Commission approved April 9, I929 (P. L. 177, No. 175),further providing Act," approved October 4, 1978 (P. L. 876, No. 169). making the budget procedures for the Office of Consumer Advocate. commission a part of the Office of Attorney General and subject to the Attorney General's administration and supervision and Referred to Committee on STATE GOVERNMENT, changing certain powers and duties of the commission and of the March 23, 1981. Governor accordingly. No. 974 By Representatives PIEVSKY, COHEN, Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, March 23, 1981. A. K. HUTCHINSON, COWELL, No. 968 By Representatives A. K. HUTCHINSON, McCALL, OLIVER, TRELLO, WHITE, PETRARCA, CLARK and KUKOVICH DeWEESE, STUBAN, COLAFELLA, DOMBROWSKI and MANDERINO 390 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24,

An Act making appropriations from a restricted revenue Health and Welfare Committee investigate operation of account within the General Fund to the Public Utility Commis- Locust Mountain State General Hospital. sion. Referred to Committee on RULES, March 23, 1981. Referred to Committee on APPROPRIATIONS, March 23, 1981. SENATE BILLS FOR CONCURRENCE No. 975 By Representatives LASHINGER, SPENCER and BERSON The clerk of the Senate presented the following bills for concurrence: An Act amending the "Post Conviction Hearing Act," approved April 28, 1978 (P. L. 202, No. 53), further delaying the effective date of a repeal of provisions relating to post convic- tion hearings. Referred to Committee on Transportation, March 23, 1981 Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, March 23, 1981. SB 48, PN 48 No. 976 By Representatives FEE and DeMEDlO Referred to Committee on Urban Affairs, March 23, 1981 An Act amending "The County Code," approved August 9, 1955 (P. L. 323, No. 130), authorizing counties of the fifth class Referred to Committee on Local Government, March 23, to permit two persons to hold the office of prothonotary and the 1981 office of theclerk of courts. SB 135, PN 135 Referred to Committee on LOCAL GOVERNMENT, March 23, 1981. Referred to Committee on Urban Affairs, March 23, 1981 No. 977 By Representatives FEE, BELFANTI, COHEN, A. K. HUTCHINSON, LEAVES OF ABSENCE GRANTED DeMEDIO, GREENFIELD, GEORGE and The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority whip. COLAEELLA Mr. CESSAR. Mr. Speaker, I request leaves of absence for An Act amending the "Unemployment Compensation Law," Representatives McVERRY and EARLEY for today's approved December 5, 1936 (2nd Sp. Sess., 1937 P. L. 2897, No. session. I), eliminating the one week waiting period for unemployment The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from benefits. Philadelphia, Mr. Pievsky. Referred to Committee on LABOR RELATIONS, Mr. PIEVSKY. Mr. Speaker, 1 request a leave of absence March 23. 1981. for Representative KOLTER for the week, Tuesday and Wednesday. HOUSE RESOLUTIONS The SPEAKER. Without objection, leaves are granted. INTRODUCED AND REFERRED The Chair hears none.

No. 34 By Representatives WIGGINS, BORSKI, MASTER ROLL CALL WHITE, EMERSON, OLIVER, RICHARDSON, DEAL, EVANS, The SPEAKER. The Chair is about to take the master roll PUCCIARELLI, SWAIM, call. On the taking of the master roll call, only those members J. D. WILLIAMS, O'DONNELL, RIEGER, in their seats are permitted to vote. Members will proceed to COHEN and McINTYRE vote. House Health and Welfare Conlrnittee be directed to invest- The following roll call was recorded: igate air pollution and toxic effects on health of inhabitants of Philadelphia. PRESENT-199 Referred to Committee on RULES, March 23, 1981. Alden Fee Livengood Rybak Anderson Fischer Lloyd Salvatore No. 35 Armstrong Fleck Lucyk Saurman (Concurrent) By Representatives DIETZ, PUNT, Arty Foster, W. W. McCall Serafini Barber Faster, Jr., A. McClatchy Seventy KENNEDY, VROON and LEV1 Belardi Frazier Mclntyre Showers Belfanti Freind McMonagle Shupnik by General Assembly reject sentencing guidelines adopted Belaff Fryer Mackowski Sieminski Pennsylvania Commission on Sentencing. Bersan Gallagher Madigan Sirianni Referred to Committee on RULES, March 23, 1981. Bittle Gallen Maiale Smith. B. Blaum Gamble Manderina Smith. E. H. No. 36 By Representatives LUCYK, McCALL, Barski Gannon Manmiller Smith. L. E. Bawser Geist Marmion Snyder IRVIS, BELFANTI, WARGO, SHUPNIK, Bayes George Merry Spencer BARBER, BLAUM, TIGUE, CAWLEY, Brandt Gladeck Michlovic Spilz STEVENS, HASAY, COSLETT, BELARDI, Brown Grabowski Mieozzie Stairs Burd Gray Miller Steighner SERAFlNl and W. D. HUTCHINSON Burns Greenfield Miscevich Stevens Caltagirone Greenwood Moehlmann Stewart

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24,

Section 3. Section 1 of this amendatory act shall take effect NOT VOTING-9 in 60 days. Section 2 of this amendatory act shall take effect immediately. Belaff Gray Mower? Richardson Deal Lewis Pelrarca Taylor. F. E. On the question, Foster, W. W. Will the House agree to the amendments? EXCUSED-4 The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Earley Kolter McVerry Wilt Bucks, Mr. Gallagher. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the Mr. GALLAGHER. Mr. Speaker, this amendment was the amendments were aereed to. amendment that was adopted by the Education Committee, On the question, and inadvertently the bill was reported without the amend- Will the House agree to the bill on second consideration as ment that was adopted unanimously. amended? On the question recurring, The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Will the House agree to the amendments? Mr. HAYES. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 257, PN 262, The following roll call was recorded: with amendments be recommitted to the Committee on YEAS-190 Appropriations for a fiscal note. Alden Evans Livengood Salvatore On the question, Anderson Fee Lloyd Saurman Will the House agree to the motion? Armstrang Fischer Lucyk Serafini Motion was agreed to. Arty Fleck McCall Seventy Barber Foster, Jr., A. McClatchy Showers Belardi Frazier Mclntyre 3hupnik BILL RECOMMITTED Belfanti Freind McMonagle Sieminski Berson Fryer Mackowski Sirianni Bittle Gallagher Madigan Smith, B. The House proceeded to second consideration of HB 286, Blaum Callen Maiale Smith. E. H PN 292, entitled: Barski Gamble Manderino Smith, L. E. Bawser Gannon Manmiller Snyder An Act creating a Student Advisory Board, providing for its Boyes Geist Marmion Spencer membership, powers and duties, and adding to the duties of the Brandt George Merry Spitr Secretary of Education. Brown Gladeck Michlovic Stairs Burd Grabowski Micozrie Steighner On the question, Burns Greenfield Miller Stevens Will the House agree to the bill on second consideration? Caltagirone Greenwood Miscevich Stewart Cappabianca Grieco Moehlmann Stuban The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Cawley Gruitra Morris Swaim Mr. HAYES. Mr. Speaker, 1 move that HB 286, PN 292, be Cessar cruppo Mrkonic Sweet Cimini Hagarty Mullen Swift recommitted to the Committee on Appropriations. Civera Haluska Murphy Taddonia On the question, Clark Harper Nahill Taylor. E. Z. Clymer Hasay Naye Telek Will the House agree to the motion? Cochran Hayes O'Donnell Tigue Motion was agreed to. Cahen Heiser Olasz Trella Calafella Hoeffel Oliver Van Horne Cole Hanaman Pendleton Vraon BILL RECOMMITTED Cordisco Horgos Perzel Wachob Cornell Hutchinson, Peterson Wambach The House proceeded to second consideration of HB 311, Coslett Hutchinson, Petrone Wargo Cowell lrvis Phillips Wass PN 317, entitled: Cunningham ltkin Piccola Wenger An Act amending the act of August 7, 1963 (P. L. 549, No. DeMedio Jackson Pievsky Weston DeVerter Johnson Pistella White 290). entitled, imposing powers and duties upon and authorizing DeWeese Kanuck Pitts Wiggins the agency to act as a lender including an eligible lender under the Daikeler Kennedy Pot1 Williams. H. provisions of Part C of the Health Professions Education Assis- Davies Klingaman Pratt Williams, 1. D tance Act of 1976. Dawida Kowalyshyn Pucciarelli Wilson Dietz Kukovich Punt Wogan On the question, Dininni Lashinger Rappaport Wozniak Will the House agree to the bill on second consideration? Dombrowski Laughlin Rasco Wright, D. R. Danatucci Lehr Reber Wri~ht.J. L. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Dorr Lescovitz Rieger zwikl Mr. HAYES. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 31 1, PN 317, be Duffy Letterman Ritter Durham Levi Rocks Ryan, recommitted to the Committee on Appropriations for a fiscal Emerson Levin Rybak Speaker note. NAYS-0 On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to. 1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 393

BlLL RECOMMITTED On the question, Will the House agree to the bill on second consideration? The House proceeded to second consideration of HB 812, PN 870, entitled: The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 305, PN 944, be An Act amending the "Public School Code of 1949," recommitted to the Committee on Appropriations. approved March 10, I949 (P. L. 30, No. 14), further providing for gross allocations to school districts. On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? On the question, Motion was agreed to. Will the House agree to the bill on second consideration? BILLS AGREED TO ON SECOND The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. CONSIDERATION Mr. HAYES. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 812, PN 870, be I recommitted to the Committee on Appropriations for a fiscal The following bills, having been called up, were considered note. for the second time and agreed to, and ordered transcribed for third consideration: On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? HB 306, PN 312, and HB 359, PN 368. Motion was agreed to. BILL AGREED TO ON SECOND BILL RECOMMITTED CONSIDERATION The House proceeded to second consideration of HB 556, The following bill, having been called up, was considered PN 583, entitled: for the second time and agreed to, and ordered transcribed for An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania third consideration: Consolidated Statutes, further providing for the replacement of certain documents lost in the mail. On the question, BILL RECOMMITED Will the House agree to the hill on second consideration?

The House proceeded to second consideration of HB 191, The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 556, PN 583, be PN 192, entitled: recommitted to the Committee on Appropriations. An Act amending the "Fuel Use Tax Act," approved January 14, 1952 (1951 P. L. 1965, No. 550). further providing for the On the question, payment of tax by individual users for private automobiles and Will the House agree to the motion? trucks. Motion was agreed to. On the question, BlLL AGREED TO ON SECOND Will the House agree to the bill on second consideration? CONSIDERATION The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. The following bill, having been called up, was considered Mr. HAYES. Mr. Speaker, 1 move that HB 191, PN 192, be for the second time and agreed to, and ordered transcribed for recommitted to the Committee on Appropriations. third consideration: On the question, HB 143, PN 911. Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to. BILL RECOMMITTED BILL AGREED TO ON SECOND I CONSIDERATION The House proceeded to second consideration of HB 793, PN 851, entitled: The following bill, having been called up, was considered An Act amendine Titles 24 (Education) and 71 (State Govern- for the second time and agreed to, and ordered transcribed for I I ment) of the ~ennsilvaniaConsolidated statutes, ievising provi- third consideration: slons relat~ne,to ret~rementfor ouhllc school emulovees and State I employees. ' On the question, BlLL RECOMMITTED Will the House agree to the hill on second consideration?

The House proceeded to second consideration of HB 305, The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. PN 944, entitled: Mr. HAYES. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 793, PN 851, be recommitted to the Committee on Appropriations. An Act creating the High Speed Intercity Rail Passenger Commission, providing for its powers and duties and making an On the question, appropriation. 394 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24,

Will the House agree to the motion? Cowell Kowalyshyn Rybak Wargo Motion was agreed to. Fischer Kukavich Showers Wiggins NOT VOTING-7 BILLS ON THIRD CONSIDERATION DeWeese Emerson Lewis Richardson Deal Gray Merry The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 376, PN EXCUSED-4 748, entitled: , Earley Kolter McVerry Wilt An Act amending the "Pennsylvania Election Code," The majority required by the Constitution having voted in approved June 3, 1937 (P. L. 1333, No. 320), removing cross- filing by candidates for the office of judges, school board direc- the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirma- tors or justices of the peace. tive. Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for On the question, concurrence. Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Bill was agreed to. REMARKS ON VOTE The SPEAKER. This bill has been considered on three different days and agreed to and is now on final passage. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Beaver, Mr. Laughlin. Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas Mr. LAUGHLIN. Mr. Speaker, I had a malfunction in my and nays will now be taken. switch on that last vote on HB 376. I would like to be recorded YEAS-160 in the negative. The SPEAKER. The remarks of the gentleman will be Alden Fee McCall Salvatore spread upon the record. Anderson Fleck McClatchy Saurman Armstrong Foster, W. W. Mclntyre Serafini Arty Frazier McMonagle Seventy BILLS ON THIRD Barber Freind Mackowski Sieminski Belardi Fryer Madigan Sirianni CONSIDERATION, CONTINUED Belfanti Gallagher Maiale Smith, B. Beloff Callen Manderino Smith, E. H. The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 519, PN Bittle Gamble Manmiller Smith, L. E. 758, entitled: Blaum Cannon Marmion Snyder Bowser Ceist Michlavic Spencer An Act amending "The Insurance Company Law of 1921," Boyes George Micozie Spitz approved May 17, 1921 (P. L. 682, No. 284), permitting addi- Brandt Gladeck Miscevich Steighner tional self-insurer policies for aggregate excess insurance. Burd Greenfield Moehlmann Stevens Burns Grieco Morris Stuban On the question, Caltagirone Cruitza Mowery Sweet Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Cappabianca Gruppo Mrkonic Swift Cawley Hagarly Mullen Taylor, E. Z. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Cessar Harper Nahill Taylor, F. E. Cimini Hasay Noye Telek Philadelphia, Mr. Rappaport. Civera Hayes Olasz Tigue Mr. RAPPAPORT. Mr. Speaker, 1 believe the majority Clark Heiser Oliver Trello leader requested recognition. Clymer Hoeffel Pendleton Van Horne Cochran Honaman Perzel Vroan The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Colafella Horgos Peterson Wambach Mr. HAYES. I believe the gentleman from Philadelphia, Cole Hutchinson, A. Petrarca Wass Mr. Rappaport, has an amendment to this bill. Cornell Irvis Petrone Wenger Cunningham Jackson Phillips Weston Mr. RAPPAPORT. Mr. Speaker, I thank the majority DeMedio Johnson Piccola White leader. I will not present the amendment, but I would like to DeVerter Kanuck Pievsky Williams, H. be heard on the bill. Daikeler Kennedy Pislella Williams, J. D Davies Klingaman Pitts Wilson On the question recurring, Dawida Lashinger Pratt Wogan Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Dietz Laughlin Pucciarelli Wozniak Dininni Lehr Punt Wright, D. R. Bill was agreed to. Dombrowski Lescavitz Rasco Wright, J. L. Donatucci Letterman Reber Zwikl The SPEAKER. This bill has been considered on three Dorr Levi Rieger different days and agreed to and is now on final passage. Duffy Levin Ritler Ryan, The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Durham Livengood Rocks Speaker Evans Lucyk The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Philadelphia, Mr. NAYS-32 Rappaport. Berson Foster, Jr., A. Lloyd Shupnik The House, once again, reminds the members that Channel Borski Grabowski Miller Stairs 1I is doing silent filming. Brown Greenwood Murphy Stewart Mr. RAPPAPORT. Mr. Speaker, this is a seemingly inno- Cohen Haluska O'Donnell Swaim Cordisco Hutchinson. W. Pat1 Taddonio cuous bill which, however, raises the whole issue of self-insur- Coslett Itkin Rappaport Wachab 1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 395

p~ ~~~ ance by employers of workmen's compensation insurance. The SPEAKER. TG gentleman from ~ifflin, Mr. About 500 companies in Pennsylvania are permitted to be DeVerter, consents to interrogation. self-insurers for the workmen's compensation claims. There is Mr. LAUGHLIN. Mr. Speaker, the purchase of this nothing wrong with this, provided the companies are strong outside insurance to protect the individuals, is it being used as enough to do this. a reserve by the insured company? The profits that come from I would remind the House that we have seen a number of that reserve, are they going in to retire the actual debt with Pennsylvanians lose their pensions when the companies that regard to the liability to the injured person, or is it just money they have worked for were either sold or went out of business that is going back in as profit and is this another method to and the pension fund had not been properly secured for them. receive additional funds from an investment of insurance by Unlike casualty insurance, workmen's compensation insur- them? ance can last for a number of years. Somebody who receives a Mr. DeVERTER. The whole purpose of the bill is to permanent injury can be getting his workmen's comp for provide adequate protection for those incidents that may years or for his life. The workmen's widow can be receiving a require an excess of $100,000 in claim settlement. You know, pension for the rest of her life, and, therefore, the security of there are companies that are self-insured that, with the limita- the fund becomes extremely important. Now the Department tion that is presently there, cannot provide this excess of Labor and Industry gives permission for self-insurance and coverage which they would have to purchase from another they look at the bond rating, the Standard and Poor's rating commercial carrier. That is my understanding. of that particular corporation to judge if they are strong Mr. LAUGHLIN. Mr. Speaker, 1 understand what you just enough to be self-insured. said and I understood that from reading the bill. The question I would remind the House that the day before the Penn I have is, have you looked into the reserve situation that came Central went down the drain, they had a triple A rating, and if about by the purchase of that particular insurance? I noticed one of these self-insurers goes bust and there are workmen's thatis not dealt with in the bill. compensation claims outstanding, guess who is going to be Mr. DeVERTER. No, and 1 would suspea that you would asked to pick up this tab. It is going to be the General have to address that question to the prime sponsor, Mr. Assembly. I would, therefore, suggest that you vote on this Earley. kind of a bill with great reservations. I do not intend to vote Mr. LAUGHLIN. That is why I wanted to address for it and 1 would suggest that this entire problem needs a whomever, Mr. Speaker. They just selected you; it was not my thorough study. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. choice. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from The SPEAKER. For the gentleman's information, the Philadelphia, Mr. Greenfield. gentleman from Delaware, Mr. Earley, is on leave today. Mr. GREENFIELD. Mr. Speaker, 1 rise in support of HB Mr. LAUGHLIN. Mr. Speaker, would you please then 519 to give those small businesses and small governmental hold this bill over until Mr. Earley is here to be able to units a relief from excessive premiums. I do not see the dire respond to the questions? consequence that my colleague has spelled out here. The The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from companies do have to qualify, and I think the experience of Philadelphia, Mr. Greenfield, who agrees to be interrogated. self-insured companies in Pennsylvania is extremely good. I Mr. GREENFIELD. I do not know if this will satisfy Mr. think this is one area which we have to enlarge upon to allow Laughlin, but I understand that the companies engaging in more companies to engage in self-insurance rather than to he self-insurance also have to purchase a bond which would give driven into a chaotic, financially bad situation by excessive protection to those employes above the $100,000 mark. premiums which they are forced to pay. I urge your support In other words, what this bill is doing is merely saying that a for HB 519. self-insurer can insure for one particular incident up to The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from $100,000 and that is financially ascertained by the Depart- Mifflin, Mr. DeVerter. ment of Labor and Industry that he can incur that kind of Mr. DeVERTER. Mr. Speaker, I too would urge the loss. After that, he is able to purchase reinsurance to cover the members to support the legislation. The bill merely permits employes. I do not think the danger really exists that we are those self-insurers really to protect the working people who envisioning. I think the protections are here, Mr. Speaker. are working in those industries. It permits them to go outside The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from the $100,000 limit and purchase other insurance to protect Cumberland, Mr. Mowery. themselves. If we do not do that, we are going to end up with Mr. MOWERY. When you get into self-insurance, one of some dire consequences. I think it is only fair that they be the problems that was mentioned earlier by Representative permitted to do it the same as any other business is able to do Rappaport was the very simple fact that many times the self- when it purchases workmen's compensation from a commer- insurance is not a large enough group to really spread the risk cial carrier. I would urge an affirmative vote. Thank you. sufficiently. Therefore, there is concern many times that there The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from are not sufficient funds to pay for the long term disabilities Beaver, Mr. Laughlin. that workmen's compensation covers. This is the concern that Mr. LAUGHLIN. Mr. Speaker, would someone please this bill addresses itself to, that there may be many small stand for interrogation on this bill; the prime sponsor or companies today self-insuring that are not capable of hand- anyone who feels willing to do so? LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24, ling a large claim of $100,000 or more. The bill therefore Cunningham llkin Pelrone Wargo allows these smaller self-insureds to go to the large reinsur- DeMedio Jackson Phill~ps Wass DeVerter Johnson Piccola Wenger ance companies, such as Lloyds of London, and so forth, who Daikeler Kanuck Pievsky Weston are willing to take on a large risk and who are very financially Davies Kennedy Pistella White sound. Whether or not they have sufficient reserves, i do not Dawida Klingaman Pitts Wiggins Deal Kowalyrhyn Pat1 Williams, H know that we can address here because reinsurance is usually Dictz Kukovich Pratt Wilson underwritten bv. vour. maior insurance comoanies in this Dininni Lashineer Pucciarelli Wo~an country. Dombrowski Lehr Punt ~oiniak Donatucci Lescovilz Rasco Wright, D. R. I would suggest that the purpose of the bill is very honor- Dorr Letterman Reber Wright. J. L. able in its intent to make sure that the worker is not going to Duffy Levi Richardson Zwikl be caught without sufficient funds. Profit and whether or not Durham Levin Rieger Emerson Lewis Rifler Ryan, there are sufficient liabilities, and sufficient surplus, I think, Evans Livengood Rocks Speaker can be best addressed by the department and 1 do not believe Pce should be a concern of this particular bill at this point. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cochran Laughlin Rappapan Taylor. F. E The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from DeWeese Mifflin, Mr. DeVerter. NOT VOTING-3 Mr. DeVERTER. Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding in response to Mr. Laughlin's question that it does not have any Cohen Gray Williams. J. D. bearing on the reserve account. Those are protected by the EXCUSED-4 insurance Commission with regard to the self-insurer's limita- Ear ley Kolter McVerry Wilt tion on how far he can go with those funds. So you are not The majority required by the Constitution having voted in placing in jeopardy any of the reserves that are currently in the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirma- place. .:..AL."G. Mr. Mr. Speaker, lhat was the Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for question I had originally asked. it has been batted around the concurrence, ball park pretty well. That is pretty much on point. I thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. REMARKS ON VOTE On the question recurring, Shall the bill pass finally? The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from The SPEAKER. Agreeable to the provisions of the Consti- Delaware, Mr. Freind. tution, the yeas and nays will now be taken. Mr. FREIND. Mr. Speaker, on HB 376, 1 was inadvertently recorded in the affirmative. I would like to he recorded in the YEAS-191 negative, please. Alden Fischer Lloyd Rybak The SPEAKER. The gentleman's remarks will be spread Anderson Fleck Lucyk Salvatore upon the record. Armstrong Foster, W. W. McCall Saurman Arty Foster, Jr., A. McClatchy Serafini Barber Frazier Mclntyre Seventy BILLS ON THIRD Belardi Freind McMonagle Showers Belfanti Fryer Mackowski Shupnik CONSIDERATION, CONTINUED Belaif Gallagher Madigan Sieminski Bersan Gallen Maiale Sirianni The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 557, PN Biltle Gamble Manderino Smith, B. 584, entitled: Blaum Cannon Manmiller Smith, E. H. Borski Geist Marmion Smith, L. E. An Act amending "The Game Law." approved June 3, 1937 Bowser George Merry Snyder (P. L. 1225, No. 316). further providing for overnight camping Boyes Gladeck Michlovic Spencer on State Game Lands. Brandt Grabowski Micozzie Spitr Brown Greenfield Miller Stairs On the question, Burd Greenwood Miscevich Steighner Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Burns Grieca Moehlmann Stevens Caltagirone Gruitra Morris Stewart Bill was agreed to. Cappabianca Gruppa Mowery Stuban Cawley Hagarty Mrkonic Swaim The SPEAKER. This bill has been considered on three Cessar Haluska Mullen Sweet different days and agreed to and is now on final passage. Cimini Harper Murphy Swift The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Civera Hasay Nahill Taddonio Clark Hayes Noye Taylor. E. Z Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas Clyrner Heirer O'Donnell and nays will now be taken. Colafella Haeffel Olasz Cole Honaman Oliver Cordisco Horgas Pendle~on Van Horne Cornell Hutchinson, A. Perzel Vroan Alden Evans Livengood Rybak Coslett Hutchinsan, W. Peterson Wachob Anderson Fee Lloyd Salvatore Cowell lrvis Petrarca Wambach Armstrong Fischer Lucyk Saurman Arty Fleck McCall Seraiini 1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 397

Barber Faster, W. W. McClatchy Seventy BILLS ON THIRD Belardi Faster, Jr., A. Mclnlyre Showers CONSIDERATION, CONTINUED Belfanti Frazier McMonagle Shupnik Beloff Freind Mackowski Sieminski Berson Fryer Madigan Sirianni The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 558, PN Bittle Gallagher Maiale Smith, B. 755, entitled: Blaum Gallen Manderino Smith, E. H. Borski Gamble Manmiller Smith, L. E. An Act amending "The Game Law," approved June 3, 1937 Bowser Gannan Marmion Snyder (P. L. 1225, No. 316). authorizing certain handicapped persons Boyes Geist Merry Spencer to use semi-automatic rifles for hunting. Brandt George Michlovic Spitz Brown Gladeck Micozzic Stairs On the question, Burd Grabowski Miller Steighner Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Burns Greenfield Miscevich Stevens Caltagirone Greenwood Moehlmann Stewart Cappabianca Grieca Morris Stuban MOTION TO REVERT Cawley Gruitza Mowery Swim TO PRIOR PRINTER'S NUMBER Cessar Gruppo Mrkonic Sweet Cimini Hagarty Mullen Swift Civera Haluska Murphy Taddonia The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Clark Harper Nahill Taylor, F. E. Centre, Mr. Letterman. Clymer Hasay Noye Telek Mr. LETTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I would like to stand in Cochran Hayes O'Donnell Tigue Cohen Heiser Olasr Trella opposition to this bill. 1 would like to explain my position. I Colafella Hoeffel Oliver Van Horne am not opposed to the bill as it was in the prior printer's Cole Honaman Pendleton Vroan number. What I have opposition to is allowing five shots in a Cordisco Horgos Perzel Wachob Cornell Hutchinson. A. Peterson Wambach semi-automatic rifle. It is dangerous enough for us to hunt Coslett Hutchinson. W. Petrarca Warga today in the field, without having somebody able to shoot five Cawell Irvis Petrane Wass shells without really aiming, and I think that the additional Cunningham ltkin Phillips Wenger DeMedio Jackson Piccola Weilon two shells in there gives them too much opportunity to shoot DeVerter Johnson Pievsky Whitc without looking into the background. 1 am speaking about the DeWeese Kanuck Pistella Wiggins safety of it. The safety factor is what 1 am looking at. I just Daikeler Kennedy Pitts Williams, H. Davies Klingaman Pott Williams, J. D. feel that with five shots, and all you have to do is squeeze the Dawida Kowalyshyn Pralt Wilson trigger for each one of them, it does not give you the allow- Deal Kukovich Pucciarelli Wogan able time to look into the background of what you are Dietz Lashinger Punt Worniak Dininni Laughlin Rappaport Wright, D. R. shooting at, and I fear that we could come up with a lot more Dombrowski Lehr Rasca Wright, J. L. accidents in the field with this type of legislation. Donatucci Lescovitz Reber Zwikl Now, the argument for giving them the five shells is that we Dorr Letterman Richardson Duffy Levi Rieger Ryan, manufacture a magazine which holds five shells, but we also, Durham Levin Ritter S~eaker in our shotguns, can put a load in there to only carry three Emerson Lewis Rocks shells. We can plug it off. We only allow three shells in the NAYS-0 automatic shotgun, and I feel that that is sufficient for NOT VOTING-2 anybody. I really feel that we have to deal with the safety factor, so I, therefore, ask for this to be reverted to the prior Gray Taylor, E. Z. printer's number. That prior printer's number is 585. EXCUSED-4 On the question, Ear ley Kolter McVerry Wilt Will the House agree to the motion? The majority required by the Constitution having voted in The SPEAKER. On the question of reversion to PN 585, the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirma- the Chair recognizes the gentleman from Wayne, Mr. Foster. tive. Mr. W. W. FOSTER. Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to make a Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for statement in support of the bill as it is presently written. concurrence. The SPEAKER. The gentleman wishes to debate against the Letterman motion? REMARKS ON VOTE / Mr. W. W. FOSTER. Right. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes- the -gentleman from I The SPEAKER. The gentleman is in order and may Schuylkill, Mr. Hutchinson. proceed. Mr. W. D. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Speaker, on HB 376, of Mr. W. W. FOSTER. Mr. Speaker, HB 558 was discussed which 1 am the prime sponsor, the anti-cross-filing bill, my in committee,'and, of course, this question came up as to the switch was locked in the negative, and I would very dearly like capacity of how many shells the rifle should hold. 1 would like to be recorded in the affirmative. to point out to you right now-and any member who is a The SPEAKER. That seems reasonable. The remarks of the hunter will certainly know this-any repeating rifle today that gentleman will be spread upon the record. anybody can use to hunt deer, there is absolutely no limit as to how many shells you can put in that rifle. I have seen people 398 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24, with a pump-action gun, or even a lever-action rifle, shoot it five-shot capacity magazine in your rifle, even though you as fast as anybody could shoot a semi-automatic. Now, that only put three shells in, you would be in violation of the act would be one reason that I would support the five-shell the way it is written. Again, this was discussed thoroughly in capacity. committee, the capacity end of it, and this very point that Mr. Another would be, as the former speaker mentioned, most Letterman has brought up. It is true you could put three shells of your automatic rifles are fed by a clip, and most of the in there, but as long as that gun has the capability of holding manufactured rifles today are made for five-shot capacity. If five, it isillegal. It is the same with your shotgun today; you we change it to three-shot, it is going to necessitate an expense could still put three shells in a shotgun, but if a warden comes on the part of anybody who presently has a rifle or is going to along and finds you without a plug in it, he is going to arrest buy a new rifle, to have that clip modified to hold three shells. you, and I am sure that Mr. Letterman also knows that. So I really cannot go along on the safety idea because of what 1 that is the reason of the argument against even using a five- said prior to this. I have seen rifles, old-time rifles, where you shot capacity and only putting three shells in it. can put 15 shells in it and just keep shooting and shooting and The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from shooting. There is no regulation on that at all. Bucks, Mr. Cordisco. All this hill does is give a severely handicapped person, that Mr. CORDISCO. Mr. Speaker, this is not an issue facing is a person with the loss of one hand or both hands, the right my district per se, but I think that 1 have to rise to at least state to go hunting big game either with a semi-automatic shotgun one point of logic that if a hunter is irresponsible with five or a semi-automatic rifle. The reason the Game Commission shots, giving him three is not going to make him responsible, has made a regulation that you plug a shotgun was in water- and I think with that point I have to rise against Mr. fowl hunting to preserve the game. It had nothing to do with Letterman and I hope that everyone understands the logic that safety or anything else, but there is a regulation that if you I raise. Thank you. hunt small game with a shotgun, you do have to have a plug in The SPEAKER. The question recurs, will the House agree it to limit it to three shells, but the only reason for that was to to the motion of Mr. Letterman to revert to printer's number save game. So 1 would ask for ybur support on this bill in its 585 of HB 558. All those in favor of reversion vote "aye"; current form. opposed to reversion vote "no." The members will proceed to The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from vote. Allegheny, Mr. Grabowski. On the question recurring, Mr. GRABOWSKI. I, too, would like to oppose the Will the House agree to the motion? Letterman motion, particularly because 1 am the member responsible for amending this bill in committee to limit it to The following roll call was recorded: five shells or to increase it from three. Everything that Mr. YEAS-33 Foster said is accurate. If, in fact, the three-shot capacity were Barber George Livengood Piccola adopted, it would be virtually impossible for hunters wishing Blaum Gruilza Lucyk Pistella to utilize this type of weapon to modify it to limit it to three Cawley Haluska Maiale Rappa~orf shells, and at least it would be a considerable expense if they Cohen Hutchinson, A. Michlovic Ritter Colafella lrvis Miller Stewart could do that. And, furthermore, just try to think of how Cole Kukovich Morris Wachob many handicapped hunters there are with one or no limbs. 1 DeWeese Lescovitz Mullen Wiggins do not think there are that many, so I would oppose the Fee Letterman O'Donnell Wright. D. R. Fryer Letterman motion and I would ask everyone else to, also. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Letterman. Alden Durham McCall Showers Mr. LETTERMAN. The two previous speakers absolutely Anderson Evans McClatchy Shupnik Armstrong Fischer Mclntyre Sieminski amaze me in all the knowledge they have about firearms. I can Arty Fleck McMonagle Sirianni tell you now that you can take a clip and put one in it; you can Belardi Foster, W. W. Mackowski Smith, B. put two in it; you can put three in it; you can put four in it, Belianti Foster, Jr., A. Madigan Smith, E. H. Beloff Frarier Manderino Smith. L. E. and if the clip is manufactured to hold 20, you can put 20 in it, Berson Freind Manmiller Snyder but that does not say you cannot put the lesser amount in also. Bittle Gallagher Marmian Spencer So it does not cost any more to have the clip filled with two Borski Gallen Merry Spitr Bowser Gamble Micozzie Stairs shells than it does four. So that is absolutely false when you Boyes Gannon Miscevich Steighner say that it is going to cost more money to do that. I just Brand1 Geist Moehlmann Stevens wanted to point that out. I think they should try to think Brown Gladeck Mowery Stuban Burd Crabowski Mrkonic Swaim about the firearm and know a little bit more about it before Burns Greenfield Murphy Swift they talk about it. Caltagirone Greenwood Nahill Taddonio The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Cappabianca Grieco Noye Taylor. E. 2. Cessar Gruppo Olasr Taylor, F. E. Foster. Cimini Hagarty Oliver Telek Pendletan ~~ ~ Civera Harper Tigue Mr. W. W. FOSTER. The reason vou cannot do~~. that..~ . Mr.~ Speaker, is because the bill says "capacity," and if you had a ~asay Perzel ~rello Hayes Peterson Van Home Cochran Heiser Petrarca Vrwn Cardisco Hoeffel Petrone Wambach 1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 399

Carnell Honaman Phillips Wargo Daikeler Klingaman Pucciarelli Williams. I. D. Coslett Horgos Pievsky Wass Davies Kowalyshyn Punt Wilson Cowell Hutchinson, W. Pitts Wcnger Dawida Kukovich Rappaport Wogan Cunningham ltkin Pott Weston Deal Lashinger Rasco Wozniak DeMedio Jackson Pucciarelli White Dietr Laughlin Reber Wright, D. R. DeVerter Johnson Punt Williams, H. Dininni Lehr Richardson Wright, J. L. Daikcler Kanuck Raico Williams, I. D. Dombrowski Lescovitr Rieger Zwikl Davies Kennedy Reber Wilson Donatucci Lettciman Ritter Dawida Klingaman Richardson Wagan Dorr Levi Racks Ryan, Deal Kowalyshyn Rieger Worniak Duffy Levin Rybak Speaker Dietz Laughlin Rocks Wright, 1. L. Durham 1,ewis Salvatore Dininni Lehr Rybak Zwikl NAY S-9 Dombrowski Levi Salvatore Donatucci Levin Saurman Ryan, Cunningham Greenfield Moehlmann Pistella Dorr Lewis Serafini Speaker Emerson Miller Piccola Taddonio Duffy Lloyd Seventy Gallagher NOT VOTING-5 NOT VOTING-I

Emerson Lashinger Pratt Sweet Gray Gray EXCUSED-4 Earley Kolter McVerry Will Earley Kolter McVerry Wilt The majority required by the Constitution having voted in The question was determined in the negative, and the the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirma- motion was not agreed to. tive. On the question recurring, Ordered, That the clerk present the s-ame to the Senate for Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? concurrence. Bill was agreed to. The SPEAKER. This bill has been considered on three RECESS different days and agreed to and is now on final passage. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Mr. HAYES. I suggest that we recess now for lunch and Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas reconveneat 1:30. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. and nays will now he taken. The SPEAKER. Does the minority leader have any business YEAS-189 before recess? Alden Evans Livengood Saurman Without objection, this House now stands in recess until Anderson Fee Lloyd Serafini 1 :30 p.m. The Chair hears none. Armstrone" Fischer Lucvk Scventv Arty Fleck ~c~all Showers Barber Foster, W. W. McClarchy Shupnik AFTER RECESS Belardi Foster, Jr.. A. Mclntyre Sieminski Belfanti Frarier McMonagle Sirianni The time of recess having expired, the House was called to Belaff Freind Mackawski Smith, B. Berson Fryer Madigan Smith, E. H. order. Bittle Gallen Maiak Smith, L. E. Blaum Gamble Manderino Snyder CALENDAR Borski Gannon Manmiller Spencer Bowser Geist Maimion Spitr BILLS ON THIRD Boyes George Merry Stairs Brandt Gladeck Michlovic Steighner CONSIDERATION, CONTINUED Brown Grabowski Micorzie Stevens Burd Greenwood Miscevich Ste~arf The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 5, PN 5, Burns Grieco Morris Stuban entitled: Caltagirane Gruitza Mowery Swaim Cappabianca Gruppo Mrkanic Saerl An Act amending the "Uniform Acknowledgment Act," Cawley Hagarty Mullen Swift approved July 24, 1941 (P. L. 490, No. 188), providing for Cessar Haluska Murphy Taylor. E. 2. acknowledgments by an attorney at law. Cimini Harper Nahill Taylor, F. E. Civcra Hasay Noye Telek On the question, Clark Hayes O'Donnell Tigue Will rhe House agree to the bill on third consideration? Clymer Heiser Olasz Trello Cochran Hoeffel Oliver Van Horne Bill was agreed to. Cohen Honaman Pendleton Vroon Colafella Horgos Perzei Wachob The SPEAKER. This bill has been considered on three Cole Hutchinson, A. Peterson Warnbach different days and agreed to and is now on final passage. Cordirco Hutchinson, W. Petrarca Wargo The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Cornell lrvis Petrone Wass Coslett Itkin Phillips Wenger Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas Cowell Jackson Pievrky Weston and nays will now be taken. DeMedio Johnson Pirrr While DeVerter Kanuck pou Wiggins DeWeese Kennedy Pratt Williams, H. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24,

YEAS-183 On the question, Alden Durham Livengoad Richardson Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Anderson Evans Llavd Rieeer Mr. NOYE offered the following amendments No. A557: Armstrang Fee ~u&k Ritter Arty Fleck McCall Rybak Amend Title, page I, line 5, by inserting after "for" where it Barber Faster, W. W. McClatchy Salvatore amears the last time exclusions from thedefinition of "buildina"- Belardi Frazier Mclntyre Serafini and for Belfanti Freind McMonagle Seventy Amend Sec. I, page 1, line 9, by striking out "Section" where Belaff Fryer Mackowski Showers it appears the second time and inserting The definition of Berson Gallagher Madigan Shupnik "building" insection 103 and section Bittle Gallen Maiale Sieminski Amend Sec. 1, page 1, line 10, by striking out "is" and Blaum Gamble Manderino Sirianni Borski Gannan Manmiller Smith, B. inserting are Bowser Geisr Marmion Smith, E. H. Amend Bill, page 1, by inserting between lines 1 I and 12 Boyes George Merry Smith, I.. E. Section 103. Definitions.

Brandt Grabowski Michlovic Spencer The followine words and nhrases when used in this act~~~~ shall- Brown Greenfield Micazrie Spitz have, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, the meanings Burd Greenwood Miller Steighner given to them in this section: Burns Grieca Miscevich Stevens "Building." Any structure that provides facilities or shelter Caltagirane Gruilza Moehlmann Stewart for nublic assemblv or for educational. business. mercantile.~ ~ ~~ Cappabianca Gruppo Morris Stuban institutional, warehouse or residential occupancy, or industrial Cawley Hagarty Mowery Swaim Cessar Haluska Mrkonic Swift use includine,-. but not limited to. those DOII~O~Sof factor" and Cimini Harper Mullen Taddonio industrial occupancy such as office space except for: Civera Hasay Murphy Taylor. F. E. (1) Buildings and structures or portions thereof whose Clark Hayes Nahill Telek peak design rate of energy usage is less than one watt per Clymer Heiser Noye Tigue square foot or 3.4 BTU/hr per square foot of floor area for Cochran Hoeffel O'Donnell Trcllo all purposes. Cohen Honaman Olasz Van Horne (2) Structures or those portions of structures used for Colafella Horgos Oliver Vroon housing equipment or machinery, or in which manufacturing Cole Hutchinson, A. Pendleton Wachob Cardisco Hutchinson, W. Perzel Warnbach or processing is done, where the operation of such equipment Cornell lrvis Peterson Wargo or machinery, or the manufacturing or processing procedures Caslett ltkin Petrarca Wass employed require the use of or generate substantial heat Cowell Jackson Petrone Wenger producing energy or cooling within the structure. As used Cunningham Johnson Phillips Weston herein, the generation of substantial heat shall mean genera- DeMedia Kennedy Piccola Wiggins tion of more than 6 watts oer sauare foot of floor area. DeVerter Klingaman Pievsky Williams, J. D. (3) Buildings which'are neither heated nor cooled DeWeese Kowalyshyn Pistella Wilson (4) Historic buildinas. Davies Kukovich Pitts Wogan (5) Buildings ownedby the Federal Government. Dawida Lashinger Pott Wozniak (6) All units subject to the act of May 11, 1972 Deal Laughlin Pratt Wright, D. R. Dietz Lehr Pucciarelli Wright, J. L. (P.L.286, No.70), known as the "Industrialized Housing Dininni Lescovirz Punt Zwikl Act." Dombrowski Letterman Rappaport (7) All units subject to Title VI (Public Law 93-383), Donatucci Levi Rarco Ryan, referred to as the Federal Mobile Home Construction and Dorr Levin Reber Speaker Safety Standards Act of 1974. Duffy (8) Buildings which are constructed primarily of tree logs and only incidentally of other materials. NAYS-0 * * * NOT VOTING-16 On the question, Daikeler Gladeck Rocks Sweet Will the House agree to the amendments? Emerson Gray Saurman Taylor, E. Z. Fiseher Kanuck Snyder White The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Foster, Jr., A. Lewis Stairs Williams, H. Perry, Mr. Noye. EXCUSED-4 Mr. NOYE. The amendment I offer to HB 638 speaks to an Earley Kolter McVerry Wilt amendment to Act 222 of last year, which was HB 80, dealing The majority required by the Constitution having voted in with certain standards in new building construction the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirma- throughout the Commonwealth. There is one particular tive. industry in this Commonwealth which is relatively new-it is Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for not actually new, it is making a comeback-that has become concurrence. very popular in rural sections of Pennsylvania, and that is the **)* construction of log homes. These homes or cabins are built entirely out of logs and, because of the type of construction The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 638, PN involved, there is a serious question as to whether they can 673. entitled: meet the requirements set forth in Act 222. Now, there are ways that they can meet those requirements, An Act amending the "Building Energy Conservation Act," approved December 15, 1980 (No. 222), further providing for but those requirements, in the opinions of those involved, steam and hot water heating systems. would destroy the esthetic value and the real purpose why 1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 401 people build log homes. They want the interior in a natural half, in advance when they place their orders with the timber finish; they want the interior to reflect the construction operators in this country, and the concern now is that they without having to cover it up. It is for this purpose that I offer must place their orders for next year and the year after and the amendment to exclude buildings constructed of logs from right now they must place those orders and they do not know the requirements of Act 222. what to do; they do not know where to turn. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from The purpose primarily that I offer the amendment is to spell Allegheny, Mr. Itkin. out clearly that they would require or would be able to Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate Mr. Noye's concern continue in operation without any question whatsoever of the about the log cabin builders, and we have taken a lot of requirementsinvolved. consideration in fashioning HB 80 to deal with problems like Now, in my area this is going to have no effect at all the log cabin builders, and the conclusion is that this amend- because we live in the area serviced by the Pennsylvania ment is not necessary. There are a number of safeguards Power and Light Company, which has already had standards, contained in the act which take care of the concerns of the log minimum standards, more stringent than HB 80 approved by cabin builders. I understand that the log cabin builder may the Public Utility Commission, which are scheduled to go into not be able to meet the proscriptive standards contained in the effect on the 1st of April. Now that is being questioned in act. These standards were based for the normal construction Commonwealth Court as to whether or not those standards trade and they are, in fact, minimum standards, but the act are necessary since we already have certain standards on the does include a section which permits alternate building books. designs as long as the design does not result in greater energy With the housing industry in the shape that it is in in this consumption than the bill allows. Commonwealth, an industry that is becoming very large There is no red tape involved in having an alternate design. because of the natural resources that we have in this great A builder merely has to indicate on the warranty that he Commonwealth, I think it would be a great step forward if we provides the home buyer that an alternate system or equip- would speak to this industry and tell them that they can ment design was used. With respect to the standards, the stan- proceed to operate in the Commonwealth. Thank you. dards were 1975 standards, and they are minimum standards The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from and they are not very stringent. Many groups were concerned Allegheny, Mr. Itkin. about the bill because they believe that the standards did not Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, I will be very brief. In my go far enough and are not energy-conserving in terms of the judgment and my knowledge of the bill, this amendment is cost of fuel today. 1 do not want to complicate matters for the not necessary. If there are concerns within the industry that small home builder, and the standards contained in the bill Mr. Noye knows about, please have him contact me. 1 will reflect my position. show them in the bill and in the law how they can alleviate The bill also goes further, which allows a builder to seek a their problem. Thank you very much. Please vote against the variance from the energy conservation standards in the act. A amendment. variance is to be granted if compliance will result in extreme On thequestion recurring, hardship to the owner and, two, the variance would not Willthe House agree to the amendments? significantly increase the energy usage of a building. Finally, and perhaps most important, the provisions of the The roll was recorded: act are self-enforcing. The builder has the option to approach YEAS-1 14 the buyer and request that he waive the warranty provision. Aiden Foster, Jr., A. Levi Rybak It is for these reasons and the fact that excluding this type Fralier Levin Salvatore of structure from the bill may precipitate requests for Armstrong Freind Lewis Saurman excluding other structures that 1 ask the members of the Fryer Livengoad Serafini Belardi Callen Lloyd Sieminski House today to oppose these amendments. There are suffi- Beloff Cannon McClatchy Sirianni cient safeguards and options in the bill as presently structured Billlc Geist Mackowski Smith, 6. to take care of the concerns of this particular part of the Gladeck Madigan Smilh, L. E. Boyes Greenwood Manmiller Snyder industry. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ~randt Grieco-~~~~~ Marmion S~encer The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from I Brown Gruitza Merry Spitz Perry, Mr. Noye. Burd Gruppo Micozrie Slairs Cessar Hagarty Miller Stevens Mr. NOYE. 1 wish I could share the gentleman's concern Cimini Hasay Moehlmann Swaim and the sureness that he exhibits that the log industry can meet Civera Hayes Morris Swift these requirements. In talking with people involved in the Clymer Heiier Mowery Taddanio Cornell Hoeffel Nahill Taylor, E. Z. industry, 1 have found that they do not share that optimism Coslefl Honaman Noye Telek that they are quite concerned that their industry is in peril Cunninghab Hutchinion, W. Perzel Vroan because of the requirements set forth in HB 80 of last year. DeVerter Jackson Peterson Wass Daikeler Johnson Phillips Wenger The problem they face is the fact that they sell a package when Daviei Kanuck Piccala Weston they sell a home, and these packages that they put together for Diefr Kennedy Pitts Wogan the buyers must be put together a good year, year and one- Dininni Klingaman Pot1 Wright, D. R. Dorr Kowalyshyn Punt Wright, J. L. Durham Kukovich Rasco Zwikl Fischrr Lashinger Reber 402 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24,

Fleck Lehr Ritter Ryan, Colafella Hutchinson, A. Peterson Van Horne Foster, W. W. Letterman Rocks Speaker Cole Hutchinsan, W. Petrarca Vroon NAYS-79 Cordisco ltkin Petrane Wachob Cornell Jackson Phillips Wambaeh Barber Duffy Manderino Showers Coslett Johnson Piccola Wargo Belfanti Evans Michlovic Shupnik Cowell Kanuck Pievsky Wenger Berson Fee Miscevich Steighner Cunningham Kennedy Piatella Weston Blaum Gallagher Mrkonic Stewart DeMedia Klingaman Pills White Borski Gamble Mullen Stuban DeWeese Kowalyshyn Pott Wiggins Burns George Murphy Sweet Daikeler Kukovich Pratt Williams, H. Caltagirone Grabowski 0' Donnell Taylor, F. E. Davies Lashinger Pucciarelli Williams, 1. D. Cappabianca Greenfield Olasr Tigue Dawida Laughlin Punt Wilson Cawley Haluska Oliver Trello Deal Lehr Rappapon Wogan Clark Harper Pendleton Van Harne Dietz Lescovitz Rasco Worniak Cachran Horgos Petrarca Wachob Dininni Lellerman Reber Wright, D. R. Colafella Hutchinsan, A. Petrone Wambach Dombrawski Levi Richardson Wright. 1. L. Cole ltkin Pievsky Wargo Donatucci Levin Rieger Zwikl Cardisca Laughlin Pistella White Dorr Lewis Riller Cowell Lescovitz Pratt Wiggins Duffy Livengood Rocks Ryan, DeWeese Lucyk Pucciarelli Williams. H. Durham Lloyd Rybak Speaker Dawida McCall Rappaport Williams, J. D. Evans Deal Mclntyre Richardson Wilson NAYS-7 Dombrowski McManagle Rieger Worniak Donatucci Maiale Seventy Bayes Fleck Heiser Merry NOT VOTING-6 DeVerter Hasay Madigan NOT VOTING-5 Cahen Emerson lrvis Smith. E. H. DeMedio Gray Emerson lrvis Smith, L. E. Wass EXCUSED-4 Gray EXCUSED-4 Earley Kolter McVerr~ Wilt Earley Kolter McVerry Wilt The question was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to. The majority required by the Constitution having voted in the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirma- On the question, tive. Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for amended? concurrence. Bill as amended was agreed to. * * * The SPEAKER. This bill has been considered on three different days and agreed to and is now on final passage. The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 326, PN The question is, shall the bill pass finally? 332, entitled: Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) and nays will now be taken. of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, permitting parties to civil actions for personal injury or death to argue the amount of damages which should be awarded. Alden Fee Lucyk Salvatore On the question, Anderson Fischer McCall Saurman Armstrong Foster, W. W. McClatchy Serafini Will the House agree to the hill on third consideration? Arty Foster, Jr., A. Mclntyre Seventy Mr. WOGAN offered the following amendment No. A563: Barber Frazier McManagle Showers Belardi Freind Mackowski Shupnik Amend Sec. 1 (Sec. 7103), page 2, line 5, by inserting after Belfanti Fryer Maiale Sieminski "suggested." Recommendations by judges shall also he allowed Belaff Gallagher Manderino Sirianni in evidence. Berson Gallen Manmiller Smith. B. Bittle Gamble Marmion Smith. E. H. On the question, Blaum Gannon Michlovic Snyder Will the House agree to the amendment? Borski Geiat Micozrie Spencer Bowser George Miller Spitz The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Brandt Gladeck Miscevich Stairs Philadelphia, Mr. Wogan. Brown Grabowski Moehlmann Steighner Burd Greenfield Morris Stevens Mr. WOGAN. Mr. Speaker, what this amendment would Burns Greenwood Mowery Stewart do would be to shed more light on HB 326, which would Caltagirone Grieco Mrkanic Stuban enable attorneys to give their opinions as to proper amounts Cappabianca Gruitra Mullen Swaim Cawley Gruppo Murphy Sweet of damages. My amendment would also allow the recommen- Cessar Hagarty Nahill Swift dation of the judge, who I think would be somewhat more Cimini Haluska Noye Taddonio reasonable than the attorneys, since they are in an adversary Civera Harper O'Donnell Tavlor.. . E. Z. Clark Hayes Olasr Taylor, F. E. situation. The judge's recommendation, I think, would be Clymer Hoeffel Oliver Telek more reasonable and also should be admitted. Cochran Honaman Pendletan Tigue Cohen Horgas Perzel Trello 1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 403

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the minority whip. Delaware, Mr. Alden. Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to Mr. ALDEN. Would Mr. Wogan submit to brief inter- the amendment offered. HB 326 is an attempt to bring Penn- rogation? sylvania in line in the area of arguing damages to a jury with The SPEAKER. The gentleman indicates he will. The almost every other state in the United States. There are 48 gentleman, Mr. Alden, may proceed. jurisdictions that now do what HB 326 would do. The element Mr. ALDEN. Mr. Speaker, your amendment will effec- being introduced by way of amendment that is now before us tively take away from the tryer of facts, which is the jury, would have a very chilling effect on any settlement discus- their right to set the damages because of the prestige, et sions. Presently, when two adversary parties are in court, the cetera, that goes along with the office of judge. Are not juries first thing that the judge does is bring them into the chamber, more readily going to accept whatever a judge happens to try to see whether it is necessary to even pick a jury and to think it is worth? spend the money of the people of the Commonwealth to Mr. WOGAN. Mr. Speaker, 1 do not think they would be empanel a jury, to go through 3 or 4 days or a week or 2 weeks any more inclined to be swayed by the judge's opinion than of trial, and in the attempt to bring the parties together, a they would by the opinions of the attorneys. judge very often recommends, once hearing one side or the Mr. ALDEN. You do not think that a judge, because of his other, some figure that he hopes will settle the case. Once office, has any more prestige that goes with that office as either party, defense or plaintiff, moving party, knows that opposed to an attorney who is arguing damages to a jury? their participation in the judge's chamber in any settlement You think that is of no more importance? discussions is going to bring forth a figure or a recommenda- Mr. WOGAN. It may be of slightly more importance, but I tion from the judge, there will be very little settlement confer- think when you are looking at the benefit that would be ences taking place to the detriment and the breakdown of the obtained by this amendment, the fact that the judge would whole system. My guess would be that of cases that are filed in certainly be more reasonable than two attorneys who were in court, less than 10 percent ever get tried, that a jury is ever an adversary situation - one attorney would, of course, want picked and that ever need the impaneling of the jury, and to inflate the damages that his client would want to receive probably even of those where juries are impaneled, a high and the other attorney, being, of course, the defense attorney, percentage of them are settled prior to the jury making a deci- would not want his client to obtain anything - I think jurors sion, because of the intervention of the judge. All of that, I would not be any more swayed by the opinion of, say, the think, will no longer take place if you allow the judge's judge than they would be by the trial attorney. recommendation to go into evidence. Mr. ALDEN. But do not judges go on the bench with the Now, let us look at the nature of the jury system. Juries are same kind of vice, if you want to call it that, either being impaneled so that people from every walk of life - engineers, defense-minded or plaintiff-minded that some would consider bakers, butchers, candlestick makers - can serve on that jury a low verdict, a high verdict? Do you not think he has the and bring to bear, bring to bear the experience of their lives on same kind of a problem'! a determination of any particular issue in the lawsuit, Mr. WOGAN. Well, you are talking about human nature. including money damages, which this bill is all about, andour Of course, judges are human. adversary system will allow both plaintiff and defendant's Mr. ALDEN. Well, judges are human, are they not, sir? attorneys to make their best pitch before this panel of jurors, The SPEAKER. Will the gentleman yield? Conversations before jurors from several walks of life, and then that jury on the floor of the House should be kept to a minimum. If it is will get together and hammer out between them whatever is necessary to confer with your neighbors, we would appreciate fair. I think that allowing the judge to bring his recommenda- it if you would do it in the rear chambers. Members take their tion in, most jurors are in awe of the courtroom, the judge seats. The gentleman may proceed. who pronounces what the law is in any particular case, and I Mr. ALDEN. I do not know if Mr. Wogan, Mr. Speaker, think that they would remain in awe of what his recommenda- answered that last question. tion is, and you would be reducing that consensus from 12 Mr. WOGAN. 1 am sorry. Would you give me the question people on the jury to one person, the judge, and 1 do not think again? I did not hear it. we want that in our system, and I ask that we not complicate Mr. ALDEN. My last question was that judges are human, HB 326, which is an attempt to bring us in line, at par with all are they not? other jurisdictions save one in these United States. Mr. WOGAN. Certainly. I ask that we not complicate it with this new feature of Mr. ALDEN. That is all the interrogation I have, Mr. allowing a judge and his recommendation that he ordinarily Speaker. makes in settlement negotiations which may or may not repre- If 1 may, 1 am opposed to Mr. Wogan's amendment. I sent his true evaluation of the case. Usually it represents the think what it really does is usurp the function of the jury in figure that he believes will prevent the lawsuit from going this leaving it entirely up to the judge to make the decision, further, whether it is a true evaluation of the value of the case and 1 do not think that is what the law is all about and I would or not. 1 ask not to inject this; defeat the amendment. Thank urge that this amendment be defeated. you, Mr. Speaker. 404 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24,

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from attorney would certainly want to inflate the figures that he Dauphin, Mr. Piccola. gives to the jurors; the defense attorney would certainly want Mr. PICCOLA. I also rise to oppose this amendment. I to give the jurors a figure which would be as low as possible, would ask the members to look very carefully at this amend- perhaps zero. The judge may be the only reasonable authority ment, because it seriously changes-l believe adversely who those jurors will have an opportunity to hear out on this changes-the function of the judge, the jury, and the attor- case, and for that reason, I would strongly recommend that neys in a jury trial case. my amendment be adopted. It reads simply, "Recommendations by judges shall also be The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from allowed in evidence." Now, it does not say that the judge Schuylkill, Mr. Hutchinson, for a brief statement on the merely would instruct the jury; it says that the judge actually amendment. becomes a witness in the case, because evidence can only be Mr. W. D. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Speaker, I urge the produced by a witness. Now, unless that judge witnessed the members to vote against this amendment. The jury system is event about which the trial is taking place, that judge's recom- an important part of our law. It is that part of the law which mendation can only be hearsay, and that violates every rule of ameliorates the strict, rigid logic of the judge and brings the evidence that 1 have ever been instructed on. community and its perceptions into the case. We fought long A judge in a jury trial is only there to instruct the jury on and hard in our history, both here and in England, to give the the law. The jury is there to be the finder of facts, and when jury power, and this amendment would remove some of that you have the judge become a witness in a jury trial, you are power. I think the gentleman, Mr. Manderino, is absolutely confusing those functions; you are going to confuse the jury, correct when he talks about jurors being in awe of the judge, and you are going to get results in jury trials that are unjust and therefore the judge's recommendations carry undue under the circumstances, and I would urge the House to weight. 1 do not think the judges need more power; I think, as defeat the amendment. a matter of fact, in some respects perhaps we should be going The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from in the other direction. I think this amendment is mischievous Philadelphia, Mr. Wogan, for the second time. and should be defeated. I urge the members to vote "no." Mr. WOGAN. Mr. Speaker, 1 just heard what I regard as The SPEAKER. On the amendment, the Chair recognizes some very splendid objections to amendment A563 on the the gentleman from Philadelphia, Mr. Levin. part of Mr. Alden, Mr. Manderino, and Mr. Piccola, but it Mr. LEVIN. Mr. Speaker, very briefly, 1 would like to seems rather funny to me, it seems rather strange indeed, that support the negative position on this amendment. I am afraid these three gentlemen are disturbed that the function of the that the offerer of this amendment does just not have enough jurors will be usurped by a judge, a trial judge, but they are experience with judges to understand how dangerous it is and not in the slightest degree disturbed by the fact that the bill as how much they can dominate a courtroom without this written would allow the functions of the jurors to be usurped recommendation. To allow them this would put them in a by the trial attorneys. position of incredible power that we just should avoid if we It seems to me entirely inconsistent can. Thank you. On the question recurring, PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY Will the House agree to the amendment? The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from The following roll call was recorded: Schuylkill, Mr. Hutchinson. For what purpose does the YEAS-I7 gentleman rise? Mr. W. D. HUTCHINSON. I rise to a parliamentary Cessar Klingaman Miller Sieminrki Fleck Laughlin Perzel Vroon inquiry. Heiser Madigan Rocks Weslon The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. Hutchinson, A. Marmion Salvatore Wogan Mr. W. D. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Speaker, are we not Ken"edy debating the amendment? NAYS-179 The SPEAKER. The question before the House is the adop- Alden Duffy Lewis Rybak tion of the Wogan amendments. Debate should be limited to Durham Livengood Saurman Lloyd Serafini the amendments. Fee Lucyk Seventy Mr. W. D. HUTCHINSON. All right:. and not to the bill, Fischer McCall Showers Mr. Speaker? Belardi Foster, W. W. McClalchy Shupnik Belfanti Foster. Jr., A. Mclntyre Sirianni The SPEAKER. That is correct. Beloff Frazier McMonagle Smith, B. Mr. WOGAN. The amendment as written would in no way Berson Freind Mackowski Smith. E. H. limit settlement negotiations. Nowhere in the amendment do Bittle Fryer Maiale Smith. L. E. Blaurn Gallagher Manderino Snyder the words "settlement negotiations" appear. All this amend- Borski Gallen Manmiller Spencer ment would do would be to lend some reason to the bill as a Bowrer Gamble Merry Spitz whole, because the judge, as I mentioned before, does not Gannan Michlovic Stairs Brandt Geist Micazde Steighner have an interest in the case. As I said before, the plaintiff's George Miscwich Stevens Gladeck Moehlrnann Stewan Burns Grabowski Morris Stuban 1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 405

Caltagirone Greenfield Mrkanic Swaim PRESENTATION OF GAVEL Cappabianca Greenwood Mullen Sweet TO NIGERIAN SPEAKER Cawlev Grieco Murohv Swift ' I ~imini Gruitra j ah ill Taddanio Civera Gruppo Noye Taylor, E. Z. The SPEAKER. At this time 1 would like to give the Clark Hagarty O'Donnell Taylor, F. E. Speaker a commemorative gavel presented to him from each Clyrner Haluska Olasr Telek and every one of us. Mr. Speaker. Cochran Harper Oliver Tigue Cohen Hasay Pendleton Trello SPEAKER AJAYI. Mr. Speaker, Honorable members of Colaiella Hayes Peterson Vsn Hornr the House of Representatives, my name has been introduced Cole Hoeffel Pelrarca Wachab by Mr. Speaker; it is Oluyemi Ajayi, the Speaker of Ogun Cordisco Honaman Petrone Wambach Carnell Horgos Phillips Wargo State in Nigeria. 1 am happy to be the leader of the delegation Caslett Hutchinsan, W. Piccola Was that is visiting this state on this occasion. On behalf of myself Cowell lrvii Pievsky Wenger and the members of the delegation, we are happy for the Cunningham ltkin Pistella White DeMedio Jackson Pills Wiggins warm reception you have given to us. Before I go I would like DeVerter Johnson Pott Williams, H. to introduce members of my delegation to the members of the DeWeese Kanuck Pratt Williams, J. D. House of Representatives here. Daikeler Kowalyshyn Pucciarelli Wilson 1 am the leader of the delegation, as I said. The next one on navies-~ ~~~ Kukovich~~~~~~ ~~ Pun1 Wozniak I Dawida Lashinger Rappaport Wright, 0.R. the list is the Honorable Chief A. D. William-Jumbo, who is Deal Lehr Rasco Wright. J. L. the majority leader in the House in the Rivers State of Dietz Lescavitz Rebei Zwikl Dininni Letterman Richardson Nigeria. The next man is Honorable J. S. Namo, the minority Dombrowski Levi Ricaer Ryan, leader in the Plateau State House of Assembly in Nigeria. The Donatucci Levin ~itier Speaker fourth man is Alhaji Isa Wazirl Sulaiman 11, chairman of the Darr Niger House of Assembly in Nigeria. The fifth man is Honor- NOT VOTING-3 able S. 0. Didigu, chairman of the Anambra House of Emerson Gray Mowery Assembly, also in Niger~a.The sixth member is Honorable D. EXCUSED-4 S. T. 0. Pessu, chairman of Public Petition, Bendel Houseof Assembly. The seventh member is Chief Adekunjo Akinleye, Earley Kolter McVerry Wilt the member of the Ogun State House of Assembly in Nigeria. The question was determined in the negative, and the The eighth man is Honorable Prince Imeh Udoh, the amendment was not agreed to. chairman and member from Cross River State in Nigeria. The ninth member is Mori Alhaji Mohammadu, from Sokoto REMARKS ON VOTE State House of A~sembly.And the last, but not the least, is our escort, Mr. D. 0. Eneanya, from National Assembly, The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Nigeria. Allegheny, Mr. Marmion. The SPEAKER. 1 would like to see a warm Pennsylvania Mr. MARMION. Mr. Speaker, I want to be recorded as send-off to these gentlemen to let them know just how much "yes" on the Wogan amendment A563 to HB 326. we enjoyed their company. Prior to their leaving I would then The SPEAKER. The remarks of the gentleman will be recognize the minority leader, Mr. Irvis, for some comments. spread upon the record. Gentlemen.

NIGERIANS PRESENTED I STATEMENTY BY MINORITY LEADER The SPEAKER. Will the members of the House please take The SPEAKER, The Chair recognizes the minority leader.I their seats? We have some special guests here today who are might add, prior to Mr. lrvis making any comments, that the also members of a legislative body. Will the sergeant at arms Speaker presides over an Assembly that is made up of one clear the various aisles. .-.,-+.a .. h:~ Pennsylvania, for the past several days, has been privileged Mr. IRVIS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. to be the host to nine members of the various legislatures of When we had dinner last night, 1 told them that there would Nigeria. Several of your leaders and members have also had be two people in our House who would be delighted with that the privilege of meeting with these gentlemen over the past situation - one would be Jim Manderino, and the other would several days. 1 would at this time like to introduce to the be our present Speaker - neither one of whom was going to get House the Speaker of the State of Ogun in the Country of his wish in Pennsylvania. Nigeria and ask that he preside for the purpose of introducing Gentlemen from Nigeria, we welcome you here very warmly the guests from that country who are visiting here in the and very honestly and very sincerely in Pennsylvania. We are United States and particularly Pennsylvania at this time. Mr. very flattkred that you would come here. The members of the Speaker Ajayi. General Assembly, you are to know that this is not the only delegation, however, in the United States. There are a number of states now hosting the members from Nigeria, but Penn- sylvania has been chosen by this particular group a$ exempli- 406 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24, fying some of the best traditions in the democratic process in ical at such a happy time, but 1 cannot fail to mention that as the United States, and we are very flattered that a great many a suggested improvement for the future. Because I feel very of the processes followed in Nigeria have been influenced by deeply about the issues and items that are shared in such a the United States Constitution and by the procedures of the vacuum and when people are here that we can benefit substan- House of Representatives in the United States, the Senate in tially by, I, for one, would like the benefit of that interchange. the United States, and indeed by the House and Senate of this I thank you, Mr. Speaker. Commonwealth. The SPEAKER. When our visitors leave, Mr. Richardson I would point out to you also that in West Coast Africa has requested that an opportunity be given to the members of there has been a very ancient tradition of parliamentary the Black Caucus to have their photographs taken with the procedure that the procedure of meeting together in tribal legislators from Nigeria. The Chair has no objection to that, groups and in clan groups is well over 8,000 years old. It is not and, as they leave, will declare-without objection, of course something which originated on the island of Great Britain -a 5-minute recess for that purpose; no longer than 5 only a few hundred years ago. minutes, however. 1 would also point out to you that ability is not limited to skin color. I have said that to you many times in the 22 years STATEMENT BY MRS. HARPER that 1 have stood here. 1 say it to you again today so that you may take it home with you. In the world which we are The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the lady from creating, intelligence, competence, and integrity are bound to Philadelphia, Mrs. Harper. mean far more than the color of one's skin or the color of Mrs. HARPER. Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the women of one's eyes or one's religion or his geographical point of Pennsylvania, I should like to welcome the men from Nigeria origin. and ask them to bring a woman representative next time. Gentlemen, by introducing yourselves to us and presenting Thank you. yourselves to us in Pennsylvania, we are flattered that you are here, that you are teaching all of'us a lesson in democracy. We MR. ANDERSON REQUESTED TO PRESIDE are very proud of you. Come back again. Thank you. The SPEAKER. The Chair requests the gentleman from STATEMENT BY MR. OLIVER York, Mr. Anderson, to preside temporarily. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes- the -gentleman from RECESS Philadelphia, Mr. Oliver. MI. OLIVER. M~.speaker, as ,-hairman of the pen". The SPEAKER. Without objection, the House will stand in sylvania Black Legislative Caucus, I certainly extend a warm recess for a period of 5 minutes. The Chair hears none. welcome to our guests. I certainly hope your stay here has AFTER RECESS been most enjoyable. We certainly hope to see you again. in I the very near future. Thank you so much for coming. I The time of recess having expired, the House was called to order STATEMENT BY MR. H. WILLIAMS 1 The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE Philadelphia, Mr. Hardy Williams. (JOHN HOPE ANDERSON) Mr. H. WILLIAMS. 1 want to join in the welcome of our IN THE CHAIR guests, also. I would like to take the time to make an observa- CONSIDERATION OF HB 326 CONTINUED tion to the leadership. I I think it was last week we had a contingent from Nigeria On the question recurring, here, also. Fortunately, as they were leaving, I took the time Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? to trv and have some interchanee- with some of the members. Bill was agreed- to. and it was very productive. I understood from their national The SPEAKER pro tempore. This bill has been guide that arrangements had been made for various inter- on three different days and agreed to and is now on final changes while in Harrisburg. All of them seemed to be with pYa"LL&L.,,,,,,, the leadership. Maybe I am incorrect. 1 just wanted to punc- The question is, shall the bill pass finally? tuate the fact that some of us, at least I, have an abiding interest because the visitors and several of us share a common The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Berks, heritage, share an acute need for economic development and Davies. the like. That is not to suggest that any other group would not Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, would the drafter of the hill, be of particular interest, but I do think that it is a big omission the maker of the bill, stand for just one or two questions of when some of us have particular needs to interchange more in- interrogation? depth on some dynamics that are relevant to our state and our Mr. ALDEN. Yes, he will. country, and that does not happen. I do not mean to be crit- 1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 407

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the us say, the State of New York or those that have had this in gentleman from Delaware, Mr. Alden, who indicates that he place and have tended to be more liberal in those settlements will accept interrogation. in the past, would it not then become an effective device as far Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, what has occurred with the as the amount of settlement here within the courts of the settlements in other states-the other 48 states, as 1 under- Commonwealth of Pennsylvania? stand it-as these provisions have been provided in those Mr. ALDEN. First of all, 1 do not think they are going to states relative particularly to the settlements in which the be able to argue what is happening in other states as the Commonwealth or those states had been named in suits for criteria for what is going to happen in Pennsylvania. If that personal damages? What has been the immediate erfect of this would be so, you would be able to argue from the defense side type of legislation in those states with the amounts of settle- that those states where the verdicts were lower would be ments in those states? criteria, too. But I think this applies only to Pennsylvania as Mr. ALDEN. Mr. Speaker, it is hard to gauge what has to what is going on in Pennsylvania, not in California, not in actually happened throughout the states since the last one, I New York, not in any other state. think, was in the 1960's, and with the explosion of the inlla- Mr. DAVIES. In other words, Mr. Speaker, there is no tion, it has been the tendency to go upwards because of the actual way or comparison or study that is available that could inflation. But what happens is that over a period of time you dramatically show this factor or any leveling-off factor that get more predictable verdicts because you start to get a range had taken place in other states as far as statistical studies. and you begin to beable to get settlements. I think in the long That is not available, is it? run, though, it benefits the Commonwealth, because as per Mr. ALDEN. To my knowledge, there is not one available. my bill, the defense would be able to argue their side of the Mr. DAVIES. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. case, too, so that the jury would have not only the benefit of Mr. ALDEN. Mr. Speaker, if 1 may state further. the plaintiff's side but also the defendant's side. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order and Mr. DAVIES. All right. Then, Mr. Speaker, one of my mayproceed. concerns would be that there'would not tend to be any Mr. ALDEN. Pennsylvania, as Mr. Manderino has dramatic increase in the immediate first year or first 5 years of mentioned, is one of two of the 50 states that do not allow the an experience factor with this type of legislation in place, argument before the jury. All other 48 states do allow this. particularly where the Commonwealth is named as the This would bring Pennsylvania into uniformity with those defendant in that type of litigation. other states. Our insurance rates now are set on a national Mr. ALDEN. Mr. Speaker, 1 think in the long term what level, so Pennsylvania is really paying for verdicts that are would happen would be you would tend to get fewer of these occurring in other states, and this would bring us into big, gigantic verdicts which you are getting now more and conformity. more that seem to he off-the-wall type verdicts. 1 would point out to the House also, Mr. Speaker, that the Mr. DAVIES. I am sorry, I missed that last part. Insurance Service Organization in August of 1979 testified Mr. ALDEN. I think over the long range the predictability before the House Insurance Committee that what happens in would start to evolve in these verdicts and you would not get Pennsylvania will not make any difference. As I said, the rates these excessive verdicts. Built into this legislation you still are set uniformly in the United States and we in Pennsylvania have sort of a curb on it that if a verdict is excessive, you still are paying for whatever happens in other states, and 1 think have the appellate courts that can reduce that verdict if it is that the House should take that into consideration. As 1 said, too excessive. We also have limitations already set in place on it would make us uniform in the United States. Commonwealth verdicts under our Judicial Code. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the Mr. DAVIES. And, Mr. Speaker, do you feel comfortable gentleman from Philadelphia, Mr. Wogan. with the fact that now that the Commonwealth is open to Mr. WOGAN. Mr. Speaker, would the gentleman from these types of suits in many areas that they had not previously Delaware, Mr. Alden, submit to interrogation? been, that we would not feel a crush or a rush or a dramatic The SPEAKER pro tempore. He indicates that he shall. increase in the amounts of moneys that are being asked for in Thegentlemanmay proceed. this type of litigation? Mr. WOGAN. Mr. Speaker, it is true that HB 326 as pres- Mr. ALDEN. 1 do not believe so. 1 think the Common- ently written contains no limitations whatsoever on the actual wealth is going to be better off, as I said, Mr. Speaker, numbers that attorneys could introduce in front of jurors. Is because they will be now able to argue their side of the case that true? without being what we call a target defendant. They will be Mr. ALDEN. That is correct. able to argue their case more meritoriously before a jury, and, Mr. WOGAN. In view of that, Mr. Speaker, my question as I said, over the long range the predictability of the verdicts would be, if an attorney could therefore pull a figure out of is going to tend to lessen rather than increase. the air, so to speak, with no possible limitation on the figures Mr. DAVIES. In other words, Mr. Speaker, because of the that he could submit in front of a jury, how in God's name fact that the lawyer for the plaintiff may mention a sum in a does that lend anything at all to predictability of verdicts? similar case for similar damages that may have occurred in, let Mr. ALDEN. That presumes, Mr. Speaker, that he will pull us say, the State of California, or would have occurred in, let figures out of the air. 1 presume he will pull figures out that LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24, will be based on the evidence that is presented. However, that Unfortunately, when a jury walks out of the courtroom, is not to say that the defense will not pull figures out of the air they walk out in a vacuum, not knowing what they are going also. There was also built into this bill a proviso that when any to discuss or whatever. You may put medical figures on the argument is made to a jury, the jury is informed that that board; you may put loss of wages on the board, and then the argument, that figure, is not controlling and it is not evidence jury is required to come up with some kind of figure as to and they are not to make that the basis of their award. what pain and suffering or some other unliquidated figure Further, Mr. Speaker, there is another built-in proviso that means. That is unfair to the jury, and I think this is a better if an award turns out to be excessive, the appellate courts have system to do it. It has built-in safeguards. It gives them a a right to look at that award and, if it is excessive, to turn it yardstick, some kind of way to analyze the thing and comeup down. Also in the courtroom, of course, you have the judge with a figure that is perhaps more appropriate than some of who instructs the jury, and you have him controlling what can the figures that have come out recently. be argued legitimately and what cannot be legitimately The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the argued, and over the course of time the judiciary will promul- gentleman from Allegheny, Mr. Marmion. gate those rules. Mr. MARMION. I feel on the contrary that that is the Mr. WOGAN. But as written, there actually is no limitation judge's responsibility. 1 can see both sides' attorneys giving on the actual figures that attorneys could introduce in front of their best shot to the jury, but let the judge make his charge to juries. No matter what the judge's instructions, there is no his jury, and he can give them the parameters. limitation in this bill, is there? Mr. ALDEN. Well, I disagree, Mr. Speaker. If you are Mr. ALDEN. There is no limitation as to what plaintiff or talking about the judge making his decision as to what he defense may argue. thinks the damages are, you are negating the jury system Mr. WOGAN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. itself, because the judge is going to make the decision. 1 think The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the that is no better way to do it. We have an advocacy system in gentleman from Allegheny, Mr. Marmion. this country where lawyers argue before juries. That is what Mr. MARMION. I rise to make a few points regarding this this country is founded on; that is what the common law is bill that I do not agree with. Before lunch 1 heard this bill about, and that is what happens nowadays. Letting the judge referred to facetiously as the attorneys' welfare bill. There are usurp that function of the jury is getting into grounds I do not two things that I disagree with in this. We constantly talk think that we want toget into. about being in line with other states. I have heard that since I On thequestion recurring, have been up here. Is there ever a time that Pennsylvania leads Shall the bill pass finally? and lets the other states follow? As far as the jury system is The SPEAKER pro tempore. Agreeable to the provisions concerned, 1 do not feel that they should be spoon-fed by two of the Constitution, the yeas and nays will now be taken, attorneys. Let us do their job in picking a stronger jury. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. YEAS-170 Mr. ALDEN. I did not hear what the gentleman was ~ld~,, Emerson Lloyd Rybak saying. I did not make out what was said by the gentleman. Anderson Evans Lucyk Salvatore Armstrong Fee McCall Serafini Could you repeat that? I did not understand what you Arty Fischer McClatchy Sevenly Mr. MARMION. Mr. Speaker, do you mean my last point? ~~~b~~ Fleck Mclntyre Showers The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman may proceed. Belardi Foster. W. W. McMonagle Shupnik Mr. MARMION. Were you referring to my last point, Mr. Foster, Jr., A. Mackowski Sieminski Freind Maiale Sirianni Alden? Bersan Fryer Manderina Smith. E. H. Mr. ALDEN. I did not hear your last point. That is why I Bittle Gallagher Manmiller smith; L. E. was saying I did not understand what you said. Blaum Gallen Merry Snyder Borski Gamble Michlovic Spencer Mr. MARMION. I feel that the jury system- I do not like Bowrer Cannon Micorrie Spitz to see two attorneys in the courtroom more or less spoon- Brandt Geist Miller Stairs Brown George Miscevich Steighner feeding a jury as to the final verdict. 1 feel your responsibility Burns Gladeck Morris Stevens should be in choosing a stronger jury in the first place instead Caltagirone Greenfield Mrkanic Stewart of, you do not like the guy's blue eyes so knock him off. Let Cappabianca Greenwood Mullcn Stuban Cawley Gruitra Murphy Swaim us get a proper jury and let them make their decisions. Cessar Gruppo Nahill Sweet The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the Citnini Hagarty Noye Taddonio gentleman from Delaware, Mr. Alden. Civera Haluska O'Donnell Taylor, E. Z. Clark Harper Olasr Taylor, F. E. Mr. ALDEN. I think I understand what the gentleman is Clymer Hasay Oliver Telek saying. In the criminal law we do that all the time. In our Cochran Hayes Pendleton Tigue closing arguments we argue before the jury the evidence that Cohen Hoeffel Pcrrel Trello has been put in, so I think this is not out of context with the Colafella Horiaman Peterson Van Horne Cole Horgos Petrarca Vroon way things are already, except now we are talking. about Cordirco Hutchinsan. A. Petrone Wachob arguing damages Hutchinson. W. Piccola Wambach Cnwell ..Irvi? Piev

Daikeler Kowalyshyn Pucciarplli Williams, J. D. just do not know how many, lifeguards in the summer Dawida Kukovich Punt Wilson programs that are put on by the Commonwealth for the areas Deal Lashinger Rappaport Wazniak Dininni Laughlin Rasco Wright. D. R. served as beaches and areas of parks which have swimming Dombrowski Lehr Reber Wright, J. L. areas that are not the pool type of area. This amendment Donatucci Lescovitr Richardson Zwikl would simply say that the Secretary, in establishing the volun- Dorr Letterman Rieger Duffy Levin Rifler Ryan, tary programs that are set forth in this authorization, would Durham Lewis Rocks Speaker call for a water-safety program by trained volunteers as life- NAYS-26 guards and that no swimming in those areas would be permitted unless that facility was covered by such a voluntary Boyes Grieco Madigan Smith. B. Burd Heiser Marmion Swift water-safety program. Cornell Jackson Moehlmann Wass 1 do not think, if we are going to have that type of area DeVerter Kennedy Mowery Wenger open to the public for their utilization, that anyone should be Davies Klingaman Pott Weston Dietz Levi Saurman Wogan placed in jeopardy without our efforts here at trying to estab- Grabowski Livengoad lish some minimum safety provision for those areas. That NOT VOTING-3 would include some of the areas in Berks County about which Frarier Gray Phillips I have a great deal of concern. We have a very large area, a EXCUSED-4 lake area, which is now controlled by the Federal Govern- ment. The department could not assume its proper responsi- Earley Kolter McVerry Wilt bility for that area a few years back and they continue not to The majority required by the Constitution having voted in provide a program in that area, and the program that has been the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirma- provided by the Federal Government, of course, is less than tive. satisfactory. We have as many as 10,000 people using one Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for facility with a very minimal amount of what we call water- concurrence. safety protection. What this would call for is to bring out * * * people who are qualified by, let us say, the American Red Cross. The House proceeded to third consideration of HE 145, PN ~t one time in the 1930'~and the 1940's, of course, this 146, entitled: type of voluntary program was a functional part of our An Act authorizing the Secretary of Environmental R~~~~~~~~ System here, not just in Pennsylvania but throughout, 1 guess, to establish a Volunteers in State Parks and Forests Program and all of the United States. This would really be calling for those for other purposes. trained people. I do not care whether it would be those spon- On the question, sored by the American Red Cross or whether it would be those Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? sponsored by, let us say, qualified merit-badge holders of Boy M~.DA~~~S offered the following amendments N~,A564: Scouts or whether it would be some other licensing organiza- tion that could be recognized as water-safety experts, but I do Amend Title, page 1. line 1. by striking out "Authorizing" not think that anyone can place either a or anyone in the and inserting Requiring Amend Set, I, page line6,by before -The,, (a) public domain who is not going to be afforded some sort of ~~~~d set. 1, page 1, line 12, by inserting after "develop. protection of their very lives if they are going to use these ment" . water safetv facilities. and if they are -.roinr to use a facilitv without that. 1 mend Sec. 1, ;age 1. by inserting between lines 14 and 15 (b) think then it should be properly posted. The secretary shall establish at every State park or forest area The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the with developed swimming, facilities a voluntary program for -water safety which will utilize trained volunteers as lifeguards and gentleman from Butler, Mr. Steighner. supervisors of such swimming facilities. No swimming shall be Mr. STEIGHNER. Mr. Speaker, would the maker of the permitted at any State park or forest area with a developed amendment stand for brief interrogation? swimming facility until such time as a functioning volunteer The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman indicates that water safety program is implemented and volunteer personnel are he will. You may proceed. in place. Every State park or forest area with a developed swimming facility shall be posted as to the existence or nonexis- Mr. STELGHNER. Mr. Speaker, is it your impression that tence of such voluntary program. if your amendment is adopted, the volunteer system would replace the present lifeguard system that we have in the state On the question, parks? Will the House agree to the amendments? Mr. DAVIES. I have no desire to replace that system at all. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the I am saying {hat in the matter of budgetary shifts or budgetary gentleman from Berks, Mr. Davies. changes, if we are going to do that, then 1 think that we Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, as I understand in the testi- should go to a program that had been in force. I can last recall mony given before the House Appropriations Committee by serving in that capacity, I think it was, in the late 1940's, in the Secretary just a few short weeks ago, there was a plan which there were still voluntary people who were qualified by, announced that there would be a cutback in the hiring of, I I think, the American Red Cross at that time acting as water- 410 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24, safety directors. This is not intended to replace anyone who is disapproving a current budget figure that would either allow currently or has been employed at pools or anything such as for lifeguards who would be paid on a full-time basis or that nature. This is purely intended for those areas that would disallow for lifeguards paid on a full-time basis. I believe that be marked by those cutbacks that had been mentioned by the our current system is the best system, and if we are in the busi- Secretary when he addressed the Appropriations Committee. ness of maintaining our state parks, then we should be in the I do not feel as if I would want to, as a legislator, know that business of maintaining them with the utmost degree of there was a facility in my legislative district that I did not try safety, and I think that is best accomplished by our current to draw the attention of either the Secretary or the depart- lifeguard system and not by a volunteer staff. Thank you, Mr. ment, for the sake of the people in my district, to some sort of Speaker. protection that is going to be afforded to them; that is, the The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the best alternate method of protection that I can think of is for gentleman fromErie, Mr. Dombrowski. their safety and their life. Mr. DOMBROWSKI. 1 would like to join with Mr. Mr. STEIGHNER. Mr. Speaker, with the implementation Wachob and Mr. Steighner in opposing this amendment. I of your amendment, what would the consequences be to a think with the conditions we have in Lake Erie where the state park that would be unable to implement such a volunteer water gets very treacherous, when the winds blow- It is a program? shallow lake; it acts up very fast. It is very necessary that we Mr. DAVIES. Be unable to implement the program? I do have well-trained lifeguards as we have now. I urge defeat of not know. 1 would say that I would rather see them not having the amendment. the swimming program than having a program which would The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the endanger the lives of youngsters or anyone, actually, who is gentleman from Lancaster, Mr. Wenger. not capable of handling himself in the water, and to say that Mr. WENGER. Mr. Speaker, although I think I agree to there is not that kind of risk, 1 as a legislator do not want to some of the intent of the maker of the amendment, I do have have that responsibility on my shoulders without making a concern because the amendment says that, in the case where some sort of attempt to at least provide those services, and I you are depending on volunteers, there could be no swimming think this is about the best alternate that I could think of. I am unless this volunteer system was in place. I could envision a open to any suggestion you may have that is a better alterna- situation where you would not have the trained and qualified tive, but this is the best one that I could come up with. volunteers. In a situation like that then there could be no Mr. STEIGHNER. Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to make a swimming at that particular location. For that reason, brief comment on the amendment. although the intent is probably good, I think there is some The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order. problem with the amendment and I think it should be Mr. STEIGHNER. Mr. Speaker, 1 really do not believe that defeated, and another attempt should be made to draft some- this amendment places any real responsibility on the volun- thing that would be perhaps more equitable and would fit that teers who would be used at the state park system. Not only situation better. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. that, I think it would be an endorsement if we adopt this The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the amendment by this chamber of a major shift in our state park gentleman from Centre, Mr. Letterman. system away from paid employes who are responsible to the Mr. LETTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, when we cosponsored park superintendents and the park supervisors. this bill, in no way did we say anything about the lifeguards or I believe that the present lifeguard system that we have in water safety people. If you read the bill, it does not include the Commonwealth has proven more than adequate. I think it them at all, and I do not understand why we would need that has served as an invaluable asset to the people of this state, in. I think that Mr. Wachob is absolutely right, we are trying and 1 would urge the defeat of the amendment. Thank you. to put the cart before the horse. Just because there is a The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the proposal to do away with state water safety people does not gentleman from Elk, Mr. Wachob. mean that that was in this bill, and I would like to see it Mr. DOMBROWSKI. I, too, would urge defeat of this defeated. amendment. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the The SPEAKER pro tempore. Will the gentleman, Mr. gentleman from Berks, Mr. Davies. Dombrowski, yield to the gentleman from Elk, Mr. Wachob, Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, on the amendment itself, it is please? not the intent of the amendment to replace anyone who has Mr. WACHOB. I rise to oppose this amendment. It is very been employed or would be employed by the Commonwealth clear to me what this amendment tries to do. Once again it is for water safety. This is merely a proviso or a provision that in an approach to put the cart before the horse in dealing with the event that the department in any way makes those water safety at our state parks. Now, the question is very cutbacks, the Secretary would then have to put in its place a clear: Either we are for water safety at our state parks or we voluntary program. are against water safety. The current lifeguard system within The remarks of the gentlemen who spoke in opposition to our state parks is quite adequate, and 1 do not believe that we the amendment would be well taken if it was just the intent of should be adopting a volunteer policy prior to the Department this for volunteers to take the place of those who have been of Environmental Resources or this chamber approving or gainfully employed in that capacity. This is merely an attempt 1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 411 that if there is any cutback in program whatsoever, this would The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the provide for some of those people who have in the past, and gentleman for withdrawing theamendment. are still out there, whether they be senior citizens, whether they be people as myself who served in that capacity, and I THE SPEAKER (MATTHEW J. RYAN) know of the fact that 1 probably asked to see how many have IN THE CHAIR qualified as lifeguards and served in that capacity in some kind of voluntary process, either in Boy Scout camps or other The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman from facilities, but those are state facilities which in the past many York, Mr. Anderson, for temporarily presiding. years have never had the type of water safety or water safety protection that is needed and would be needed if there is any CONSIDERATION OF HB 145 CONTINUED cutback in program whatsoever. This is not intended to supplant or take the place of any of those who would be or On the question recurring, could be gainfully employed, merely those areas that if there Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? is any such cutback, we do not forsake water safety. Thank Mr. Offered the following amendment you, Mr. Speaker. No. A306: The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Amend Sec. 3, page 2, by inserting betweenlines 16and 17 (d) Lehigh, Mr. Ritter. No volunteer shall be assigned to any position presently filled or MF, RITTER. M~,speaker, as I read amendment, it authorized in the Bureau of State Parks or Bureau of Forestry. appears to me that there is just no question that if you adopt onthe question, this amendment you are abolishing paid lifeguards at state will the H~~~~agree to the amendment? parks, because the gentleman, Mr. Davies, did not point out The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from that he is taking out the word "authorizing" the Secretary; he Northampton, Mr. Kowalyshyn. is requiring the Secretary to establish this volunteer program. Mr. KOWALYSHYN. This amendment clarifies the use of Further, if you read on, it says: "The secretary shall establish volunteers in state parks and state forests by the Department at every State park or forest area with developed swimming of Environmental Resources. The amendment specifically and facilities a voluntary program for water safety which will expressly states that no volunteer shall be assigned to any utilize trained volunteers .... No swimming shall be permitted position presently filled or authorized in the Bureau of State at any State park or forest area with a developed swimming Parks or Bureau of Forestry. In other words, unpaid volun- facility until such time as a functioning volunteer water safety teers will not be permitted to replace paid employes of the program is implemented and volunteer personnel are in Department of Environmental Resources. place." The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely clear that what the gentleman Lancaster, Mr. Wenger. intends to do is to abolish paid lifeguards at the state parks Mr. WENGER. Mr. Speaker, I support Mr. Kowalyshyn's and replace them with a volunteer lifeguard system. I am amendment. I think the language in this proposed amendment opposed to that. I am opposed to that for a number of . 1s already included in the contracts with the state employes reasons, one of which is that if you cannot secure enough and DER. For that reason, I would support the amendment volunteers at a state park, there will be no swimming at that before us. Thank you. state park. No ifs, ands, or buts about it, the language. . in the amendment is absolutely clear. It requires the Secretary to On the question recurring, establish this program, and it further points out that there will Will the House agree to to the amendment? be no swimming at state parks unless the volunteer program is The following roll call was recorded: in effect. That does not give him an option if he cuts back on funds or anything else. There are no options, Mr. Speaker. YEAS-I80 This amendment mandates that the Secretary shall establish Alden Fischer Lueyk Seventy this volunteer program. 1 think it is the wrong way to go. The Anderson Foster, W. W. McCall Showers Armstrong Foster, Jr., A. McClatchy Shupnik swimming areas in our state parks need the protection of paid Arty Freind Mclntyre Sieminski lifeguards, and 1 would ask that we defeat the amendment. Barber Fryer McMonagle Sirianni Belardi Gallagher Mackowski Smith, B. AMENDMENTS WITHDRAWN Belfanti Gallen Madigan Smith, E. H. Beloff Gamble Maiale Snyder The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the Berson Gannon Manderino Spencer gentleman from Berks, Mr. Davies, for the third time. Bitfle George Manmiller Spitz Mr. DAVIES. After hearing both the concerns of the Blaunl Gladeck Merry Stairs Borski Grabowski Michlovic Steighner gentlemen from the other side of the aisle and also the drafter Bowser Greenfield Micouie Stevens of the bill, I will go back to the drawing board with it, with- Boyes Greenwood Miscevich Stewan draw the amendment, and, of course, try to come back with a Brandt Grieco Morris Stuban Brown Gruitza Mowery Swaim separate piece of legislation dealing with the problem when Burns Gruppa Mrkanic Sweet the problem raises its ugly head after July, if that be a neces- Caltagirone Hagarty Mullen Swift sity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cappabianca Haluska Murphy Taddonio Cawley Harper Nahill Taylor. E. Z. Cesiar Hasay Noye Taylor. F. E.

1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 413

On the question, Will the House agree to the amendments? Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Mr. KUKOVICH offered the following amendments No. Westmoreland, Mr. Kukovich. A370: Mr. KUKOVICH. This is a clarifying amendment. What Amend Title, page I, line 6, by striking out "and" where it we are trying to do is insure a broad interpretation of the appears the first time and inserting a comma ballot question to enable the volunteer fire companies to fund Amend Title, page I, line 6, by removing the comma after whatever programs they have in the past. I have had lengthy "vehicles" Amend Title, page 1, line 6, by inserting after "and" where it discussions with the majority leader on this, and this is an appears the second time utility or special service vehicles, agreed-to amendment. Amend Title, page I, line 7, by striking out "and" and The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. inserting a comma Mr. HAYES. Mr. Speaker, this amendment is agreed to. Amend Title, page 1, line 8, by inserting after "vehicles," utility or special service vehicles, On the question recurring, Amend Title, page I, line 10, by removing the period after Will the House agree to the amendments? "duties" and insertine- and for refinancine certain debt or contracts. The following roll call was recorded: Amend Sec. I, page 2, line 1, by striking out "and" and YEAS-198 inserting a comma Amend Sec. 1, page 2, line 2, by removing the comma after Alden Evans Livengood Rybak "vehtcle~"...... Anderson Fee Lloyd Salvatore Amend Sec. I, page 2, line 2, by inserting after "and" utility Armstrong Fischer ~ucik Saurman or special service vehicles, Arty Fleck McCall Serafini W. McClatchy Seventy Amend Sec. I, page 2, line 3, by striking out "and" where it Barber Faster. W. Belardi Faster, Ir. , A. Mclnlyre Showers appears the first time and inserting a comma Belfanti Frazier McMonagle Shupnik Amend Sec. I, page 2, line 3, by inserting after "vehicles," Beloff Freind Mackowski Sieminski utility or special service vehicles, Berson Fryer Madigan Sirianni Amend Sec. 1, page 2, line 6, by removing the comma after Biflle Gallagher Maiale Smith, B. "duties" and insertine and for refinancine debt or contracts Blaurn Gallen Manderino Smith. E. H entered into after ~ovekber4, 1975 and used for the purchase of Borski Gamble Manmiller Smith, L. E apparatus equipment or for the construction or modernization of Bowser Cannon Mar mian Snyder facilities or for modification of apparatus equipment in order to Boyes Geirr Merry Spencer Michlovic Spitz comply with National Fire Protection Association standards, Brandt George Brown Gladeck Micozrie Stairs Amend Sec. 3, page 2. line 16, by striking out "and" and 1 Burd Grabowski Miller Steighner inserting a comma Burns Greenfield Mismvich Stevens Amend Sec. 3, page 2, line 17, by removing the comma after Caltagirone Greenwood Moehlmann Stewan "vehicles" Cappabianca Grieco Morris Stuban Amend Sec. 3, page 2, line 17, by inserting after "and" utility Cawley Gruitra Mawery Swaim or svecial service vehicles, Ccssar Gruppo Mrkonic Sweet kmend Sec. 3, page 2, line 18, by striking out "and" where it Cimini Hagarty Mullen Swift appears the first time and inserting a comma Civera Haluska Murphy Taddonio Amend Sec. 3, page 2, line 18, by inserting after "vehicles," 'lark Harper Nahill Taylor. E. Z. Clymcr Hasay Noye Taylor, F. E. utility or special service vehicles, Cochran Haye5 O'Donnell Telek Amend Sec. 3, page 2, line 21, by removing the question mark ,-ahen Heiser Olasr Tigue after "duties" and inserting and for refinancing debt or contracts colafella~~~ Hoeffel Oliver Trello entered into after November 4. 1975 and used for the ourchase of Cole Hanaman Pendleton Van Horne apparatus equipment or for the construction or modernization of Cordisco Horgos Perzel Vroan facilities or for modification of aooaratus. . eaui~ment. . in order to Cornell Hutchinson. Peterson Wachob comply with National Fire Protection Association standards? Coslett Hutchinsan, Petrarca Wambach Amend Sec. 5, page 3, line 4, by striking out "and" where it Cawrll lrvis Petrone Wargo Phillips Wass appears the first time and inserting a comma Cunningham ltkin DeMedio Jackson Piccola Wenger Amend Sec. 5, page 3, line 4, by removing the comma after DeVerter Johnson Pievskv Weston "vehicles" DeWeese Kanuck pistella White Amend Sec. 5, page 3, line 4, by inserting after "and" where Daikeler Kennedy Pitts Wiggins it appears the second time utility or special service vehicles, Davies Klingaman Pott Williams, H. Amend Sec. 5, page 3, line 5, by striking out "and" and Dawida Kowalyshyn Pratt Williams, 1. D inserting a comma Deal Kukovich Pucciarelli Wilson Amend Sec. 5, page 3, line 5, by inserting after "vehicles," Dietr Lashinger Punt Wogan utility or special service vehicles, Dininni Laughlin Rappapon Wozniak Wright. D. R. Amend Sec. 5, page 3, line 8, by removing the period after Dornbrowski Lehr Rasco Donatucci Lescovitr Reber Wright, J. L. "duties" and inserting and for refinancing debt or contracts Darr Letterman Richardson Zwikl entered into after November 4, 1975 and used for the purchase of Duffy Leri Rieger apparatus equipment or for the construction or modernization of Durham L.evin Kilter Ryan. facilities or for modification of apparatus equipment in order to Ernerran Lewis Rocks Speaker comply with National Fire Protection Association standards. On the question,

1981 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 415

Durham Levi Rieger Ryan, Emerson Lewis Ritter Speaker Boyes Foster, W. W. Madigan Piccola DeVerter Ceist Moehlmann Saurman NAYS-0 Davies Hutchinson, A. Moweiy Vroon NOT VOTING-9 Dietz Lewis Peterson NOT VOTING-2 Barber Haluska Richardson Wiggins Brloff Levin Sieminski Williams, J. D. Gray Mrkonic Gray EXCUSED-4 EXCUSED-4 Earley Kolter McVerry Wilt I Earley Kolter McVerry Wilt The question was determined in the affirmative, and the The question was determined in the affirmative, and the resolution was adopted. resolution was adopted.

RESOLUTION ADOPTED RESOLUTION ADOPTED

Mrs. HARPER called up HR 27, PN 1025, entitled: Mr. LESCOVITZ called up HR 32, PN 1018, entitled: House urges United States Congress set aside a date for House extends congratulations and best wishes to citizens of Nationwide memorial service for missing and murdered childr Washington County upon occasion of Washington County from Atlanta. Bicentennial. On the question, On the question, Will the House adopt the resolution? Will the House adopt the resolution? The following roll call was recorded: The following roll call was recorded: YEAS-I90 YEAS-194 Alden Evans Livengood Rocks Alden Evans Lewis Ritter Anderson Fee Liayd Rybak Anderson Fee Livengood Rocks Armstrong Fischer Lucyk Salvatore Armstrong Fischer Lloyd Rybak Art? Fleck McCall Saurman Arty Fleck Lucyk Salvatore Belardi Faster, W. W. McClatchy Serafini Barber Foster, W. W. McCall Saurman Belfanti Foster, Jr., A. Mclntyre Seventy Belardi Foster, Jr., A. McClatchy Serafini Berson Frazier McMonagle Showers Belfanti Frazier Mclntyre Seventy Bittle Freind hlackouski Shupnik Belaif Freind McMonagle Showers Blaum Fryer Madigan Sirianni Berson Fryer Mackowski Shupnik Borski Gallagher Maiale Smith, B. Bitlle Gallagher Madigan Sirianni Bowser Gallen Manderino Smith, E. H. Blaum Gallen Maiale Smith. B. Boyes Gamble Manmiller Smith, I.. E. Bonki Gamble Manderino Smith, E. H. Brand1 Cannon Marmion Snyder Bowser Cannon Manmiller Smith, L. E. Brown Geist Merry Spencer Boyes Geist Marmion Snyder Burd George Michlovic Spitr Brandt George Merry Spencer Burns Cladeck Micorrir Stairs Brown Gladeck Michlovic Spit2 Caltagirane Grabowski Miller Steighner Burd Crabowski Micozzie Stairs Cappabianca Greenfield Miscevich Stevens Burns Greenfield Miller Steighner Cawley Greenwood Maehlmann Stewart Caltagirone Greenwood Miscevich Stevens Cessar Grieco Morris Stuban Cappabianca Grieco Moehlmann Stewan Cimini Gruitza Mowery Swaim Cawley Gruitra Morris Stuban Civera Gruppo Mrkonic Sweet Cessar Gruppa Mawery Swaim Clark Hagarty Mullen Swift Cimini Hagarty Mrkonic Sweet Clymer Harper Murphy Taddonio Civera Haluska Mullen Swift Cachran Hasay Nahill Taylor. E. Z. Clark Harper Murphy Taddonio Cohen Hayes Naye Taylor. F. E. Clymer Hasay Nahill Taylor, E. Z. Colafella Heiser O'Donnell Telek Cochran Hayes Noye Taylor. F. E. Cole Hoeffel Olasz Tigue Cohen Heiser O'Dannell Telek Cordisco Hanaman Oliver Tiello Calafella Hoeffel Olasz Tigue Cornell Horgos Pendleton Van Horne Cole Honaman Oliver Trello Coslelt Hutchinson, A. Perzel Vroon Cordiaco Horgos Pendleton Van Horne Cowell Hutchtnsori, W. Peterson Wachob Cornell Hutchinsan, A. Perzel Wachob Cunningham lrvis Petrarca Wambach Coslett Hutchinson. W. Peterson Wambach DeMedio ltkin Petrone Wargo Cowell lrvis Petrarca Wargo DeVertei Jackson Phillips Wass Cunningham ltkin Petrone Wass DeWeese Johnson Piccola Wenger DeMedio Jackson Phillips Wenger Daikeler Kanuck Pievtky Weston DeVerter Johnson Piccola Weston Davits Kennedy Pist ella White DeWeese Kanuck Pievaky White Dawida Klingaman Pitla Williams, H. Daikeler Kennedy Pistella Wiggins Deal Kowalyshyn Pot! Wilson Davics Klingaman Pitts Williams, H. Dietz Kukovich Pratt Wogan Dawida Kowalyshyn Pot1 Wilson Dininni Lashinger Pucciarelli Worniak Dietz Kukovich Pratt Wogan Dombrowaki Laughlin Punt Wright, D. R. Dininni I-ashinger Pucciarelli Worniak Donatucci Lehr Rappaport Wright, J. L. Dombrowski 1.aughlin Punt Wright, D. R. Dorr Lescovitz Rasco Zwiki Donatucci Lehr Rappaport Wright, J. L. Duffy Letterman Rcber Darr Lescovitz Rasca Zwikl 416 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24,

Duffy Letterman Reber Duffy Letterman Rieger Durham Levi Richardson Ryan, Durham Levi Rifler Ryan, Emerson Levin Rieger Speaker Emerson Lewii Rocks Speaker NAYS-0 NAYS-I NOT VOTING-5 Wachob NOT VOTING-4 Deal Sieminski Vroon Williams, J. D. Gray Brloff Gray Levin Perzel EXCUSED-4 EXCUSED-4 Ear ley Kolter McVerry Wilt Earley Kolter McVerry Wilt The question was determined in the affirmative, and the The question was determined in the affirmative, and the resolution was adopted. resolution was adopted. Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for RESOLUTION ADOPTED concurrence.

Mr. ClVERA called up HR 3, PN 241, entitled: RESOLUTION ADOPTED General Assembly directs Joint State Government Commission conduct an in-depth study of problem of property tax relief for Mr. ZWlKL called up HR 13, PN 1023, entitled: senior citizens. I House urges Department of General Services inventory struc- On the question, tures on State farm lands being phased out, for possible inclusion Will the House adopt the resolution? on the historic register. The following roll call was recorded: On the question, Will the House adopt the resolution? The following roll call was recorded: Alden Evans Livengood Rybak Anderson Fee Lloyd Salvatore YEAS-192 Armstrong Fischer Lucyk Saurman Arty Fleck McCall Serafini Alden Evans McCall Salvatore Barber Foster, W. W. McClatchy Seventy Anderson Fee McClatchy Saurman Belardi Foster. Jr., A. Mclntyre Showers Armstrong Fischer Mclntyre Serafini Belfanti Frarier McMonagle Shupnik Arty Foster. W. W. McMonagle Seventy Bersan Freind Mackowski Sieminski Barber Faster, Jr., Mackowski Showers Bittle Frver Madigan Sirianni Belardi Frazier Madigan Shupnik Blaum Gallagher Maiale Smith, B. Belfanti Fryer Maiale Sieminski Borski Gallen Manderino Smith, E. H. Berson Gallagher Manderino Sirianni Bawser Gamble Manmiller Smith, L. E. Bittle Gallen Manmiller Smith, B. Boyes Gannon Marmion Snyder Blaum Gamble Marmion Smith. E. H. Brandl Geist Merry Spencer Borski Gannon Merry Smith, L. E. Brawn George Michlavic Spitz Bowser Geist Michlovic Snyder Burd Gladeck Micazzie Stairs Boyes George Micozzie Spencer Burns Grabowski Miller Steighner Brandt Gladeck Miller Spitz Caltagirone Greenfield Miscevich Stevens Brow Grabowski Miscevich Stairs Cappabianca Greenwood Moehlmann Stewart Burd Greenfield Moehlmann deighner Cawley Grieeo Morris Stuban Burns Greenwood Morris Stevens Cessar Gruitza Mawery Swaim Caltagirone Grieca Mowery Stewan Cimini Gruppo Mrkonic Sweet Cappabianca Gruilza Mrkonic Stuban Civera Hagarty Mullen Swift Cawley Grupp0 Mullen Swaim Clark Haluska Murphy Taddonio Cessar Hagarty Murphy Sweet Clymer Harper Nahill Taylor, E. Z. Cimini Haluska Nahill Swifi Cochran Hasay Noye Taylor, F. E. Civera Harper Noye Taddanio Cahen Hayes O'Donnell Telek Clark Hayes O'Donnell Taylor, E. 2. Colafella Heiser Olasr Tigue Clymer Heiser Olaar Taylor, F. E. Cole Hoeffel Oliver Trello Cochran Hoeffel Oliver Telek Cordisco Honaman Pendletan Van Horne Cohen Hanaman Pendleton Tigue Cornell Horgos Peterson Vroon Calafella Horgos Perzel Trello Coslett Hutchinson. A. Petrarca Wambach Cole Hutchinson, Peterson Van Home Cowell Hutchinson, W. Petrone Wargo Cardisco Hutchinson, Petrarca Vroan Cunningham lrvis Phillips Wass Cornell lrvis Petrone Wachob DeMedio ltkin Piccola Wenger C0slett Itkin Phillips Wambach DeVerter Jackson Pievsky Weston Cowell Jackson Piccola Wargo DeWeese Johnson Pistella White Cunningham Johnson Pievsky Wass Daikeler Kanuck Pitts Wiggins DeMedio Kanufk Pistella Wenger Davies Kennedy Poll Williams. H. DeVerter Kennedy Pilts Weston Dawida Klingaman Pratt Williams, J. D. DeWeese Klingaman Pot1 White Deal Kowalyshyn Pucciarelli Wilson Daikeler Kowalyshyn Pratt Wiggins Dietr Kukavich Punt Wogan Davies Kukovich Pucciarelli Williams. J. D Dininni Lashinger Rappaport Wozniak Dawida Lashineer Punt Wilson Dombrowski Laughlin Rasco Wright, D. R. Deal Laughlin Rappaport Wogan Donatucci Lehr Reber Wright, J. L. Dietr L~hr Rasco Warniak Dorr Lescovitz Richardson Zwikl Dininni Lesco\.itr Reber Wright, D. R. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE

Dombrowski Letterman Richardson Wright, J. L Belfanti Freind Mackowski Shupnik ~onatulcci Levi Rieger Zwikl Berson Fryer Madigan Sieminski Dorr Lewis Ritter Bittle Gallagher Maiale Sirianni Duffy Livengood Rocks Ryan, Blaum Gallen Manderino Smith, B. Durham Lloyd Rybak Speaker Borski Gamble Manmiller Smilh, E. H. Emerson Lucyk Bowser Cannon Marmion Smith, L. E. NAYS-I Boyes Geist Merry Snyder Brand1 George Michlovic Spencer Fleck Brown Gladeck Micouie Spitz Burd Grabowski Miller Stairs NOT VOTING-6 Burns Greenfield Miscevich Stcighner Beloff Gray Levin Williams, H. Caltagirane Greenwood Moehlmann Stevens Cappabianca Grieco Morris Stewan Freind Hasay Cawley Gruitza Mowery Stuban

Cessar~ ~ Cruooo. . Mrkonic Swaim 1 Cirnini Hagany Mullen Sweet Earley Koher McVerry Wilt ! Civera Haluska Murphy Swift The question was determined in the affirmative, and the Clark Harper Nahill Taddonia Clymer Hasay Noye Taylor, E. Z. resolution was adopted. Cachran Hayes O'Donnell Taylor. F. E. Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for Cahen Heiser Olasz Telek concurrence. Colafella Hoeffel Oliver Tigue Cole Honaman Pendletan Trello Cardisco Horgas Perzel Van Home RESOLUTION ADOPTED Carnell Hutchinsan, A. Peterson Vroon Coslett Hutchinson, W. Petrarca Wachob Cowell lrvis Petrone Wambach Mr. MANMILLER called up HR 17, PN 636, entitled: Cunningham ltkin Phillips Wargo General Assembly memorialize Governor Thornburgh desig- DeMedia Jackson Piccola Wass DeVerler Johnson F'ievsky Wenger nate April 25th, "Rescue Attempt Memorial Saturday," for DeWeese Kanuck Pistella Weston those servicemen killed in the rescue mission in Iran. Daikeler Kennedy Pitts White On the question, Davies Klingaman Pott Wiggins Dawida Kowalyshyn Pratt Williams, H. Will the House adopt the resolution? Deal Kukovich Pueciarelli Wilson Dietz Larhinger Punt Wogan The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Dininni Laughlin Rappaport Wozniak Dauphin, Mr. Manmiller. Dambrowski Lehr Rasco Wright, D. R. Mr. MANMILLER. I would simply like to take a minute Donatucci Lescovitz Reber Wright, 1. L. Dorr Letterman Richardson Zwikl here to explain how HR 17 came to be. It is only fitting and Duffy Levi Rieger proper that credit be given where credit is due, and the spon- Durham Lewis Ritter Ryan, sors of HR 17 are not the initiators, the instigators or the orig- Emerson Livengoad Rocks Speaker Evans inators of this resolution, but the credit belongs to four ninth- NAYS-0 grade civic classes, under their teacher, Mr. Robert McCloskey of Central Dauphin East Junior High School, NOT VOTING-4 which is part of the Central Dauphin School District in Beloff Gray Levin Williams, J. D. Dauphin County. Each year, Mr. McCloskey has two classes EXCUSED-4 portraying the House of Representatives and two classes portraying that body known as the Senate. This year, by joint Earley Kolter McVerry Wilt resolution, the students of the ninth-grade classes at C. D. The question was determined in the affirmative, and the East Junior High School.came up with this resolution, and resolution was adopted. they have asked me to introduce it. I would like to read the Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for last paragraph of their letter: "We the 'GENERAL concurrence. ASSEMBLY' of Central Dauphin East Junior High School feel this Resolution should become a reality and would like REMARKS ON VOTE you to consider introducing this bill in your House." So I want to give credit to those kids at C. D. East Junior High The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from School. Thank you. Luzerne, Mr. Hasay. Mr. HASAY. On HR 13, PN 1023, my switch again On the question recurring, malfunctioned and I was not recorded. I wish to be recorded Will the Houseadopt theresolution? in the affirmative. Thank you. The following roll call was recorded: The SPEAKER. The gentleman's remarks will be spread YEAS-195 upon the record. 1 would ask the members to remain for the consideration of Alden Fee Lloyd Rybak a condolence resolution at the conclusion of the calendar. Anderson Fischer Lucyk Salvatore Armstrong Fleck McCall Saurman Arty Foster, W. W. McClatchy Seralini Barber Foster, Jr.. A. Mclntyre Seventy Belardi Frarier McMonagle Showers LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24, BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS PASSED OVER I STATEMENT BY MR. DEAL The SPEAKER. Without objection, all remaining bills and The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from resolutions on today's calendar will be passed over. Philadelphia, Mr. Deal. The Chair hears none. Mr. DEAL. I request unanimous consent to make a brief statement. CONDOLENCE RESOLUTION ADOPTED The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman. Mr. Deal. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Mr. DEAL. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to call to the atten- Carbon, Mr. McCall. tion of this chamber the violent mob killings that have taken Mr. McCALL. I wish to introduce a privileged condolence place in Philadelphia during the past year. As a former police resolution. officer in the city of Philadelphia for many years, I under- The following resolution was read: stand and I know that most of the members understand the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES difficulty of finding evidence against professional killers who HARRISBURG. PA. have been hired to do a job on someone. OFFICE OF THE CHIEF CLERK Mr. Speaker, I have no wish to slight the performance of RESOLUTION local and federal law-enforcement agencies who are respon- WHEREAS, Joseph Semanoff, a former member of the sible for stopping this gang warfare, but, Mr. Speaker, I am Pennsvlvania House of Reoresentatives. nassed awav at the aee- concerned that seven murders have occurred in Philadelphia, of sixty-four years; and in our Commonwealth, within the past year and have hardly WHEREAS. While servine in the Pennsvlvania House of drawn a yawn from the state officials charged with the ~e~resentativeifrom 1966 unltil 1976, he wa8 a member of the Mines and Minerals, Fish and Game, and Recreation and responsibility of maintaining law and order. I know that some Tourism Committees and chairman of the Military and of the members share my concern about this moral vacuum Veterans Affairs Committee. In 1970, he was appointed that exists in our state. Others, 1 am afraid, may be intimi- ambassador of good will by the Pennsylvania House of Repre- dated or silenced out of fear. sentatives on the twenty-fifth anniversary of the liberation of Mr. Speaker, this war llow raging between the so-called Holland, where he presented a coal ornament to Queen Juliana. A 1934 graduate of Nesquehoning High School, Mr. Philadelphia crime families and mob elements in New York is Semanoff served as a member of the lOlst Airborne Division starting to corrupt the atmosphere of law and order that we all during World War 11 and received the Purple Heart, two Presi- like to say we have here in Pennsylvania. The target of the war dential Unit Citations, Combat Infantrymans Badge and four evidently is the lucrative casino gambling business in Atlantic Battle Stars; now therefore be it City, but the killings have all taken place in Pennsylvania. RESOLVED, That the House of Representatives of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania notes with sadness the passing Beyond involving criminal elements, however, the mob war of a former dedicated member and ouhl~cservant. Joseoh has already claimed the life of one high union official, and Semanoff and extends its heartfelt condolences to his wife, experts say that the rampage could run on unchecked until Kathryn; sons, Gene, Gregory, and Joel; daughter. JoAnn either Philadelphia or New York controls the casino business. Schoenberger; and nine grandchildren; and be it further What might happen next? Are these contract killers so compe- RESOLVED, That a copy of this resolution be delivered to Mrs. Kathryn Semanoff, 160 South Fifth Street, Lehighton, tent in their work that they will never hurt an innocent Pennsylvania. person? Mr. Speaker, should we instead applaud their accu- We hereby certify that the foregoing is an exact copy of a racy and cheer them on, while they, one by one, eliminate our Resolution introduced in the House of Representatives by the criminal elements? Honorable Thomas J. McCall, and adopted by the House of Mr. Speaker, 1 for one am ashamed of these killings and Representatives the 24th day of March 1981. what they say about our city and our state. I am afraid that Matthew 1. Ryan, soon we will have replaced our terrible reputation as the most Speaker ATTEST: corrupt state in the nation with a new image, that of the most John Zuheck, lawless state. Mr. Speaker, I represent one of the poorest Chief Clerk districts in the Con~monwealthand 1 have a terrible burden On the question, upon me to insure that our future generations grow up to Will the House adopt the resolution? respect law and order, but what can I say to a child who looks at the world the way it is and concludes that murder is all right The SPEAKER. Those in favor of the resolution will rise if you do not get caught? What can I say when a child sees and remain standing as a mark of respect for Mr. Semanoff's that murder is all right when you have a high-class organiza- memory. tion and plenty of money, and, most of all, when you bring in (Members stood.) somebody from out of town to do the dirty work? No, no, The SPEAKER. The resolution is unanimously adopted. Mr. Speaker; I want to tell that child, no, no, no, murder is wrong and crime does not pay. But, unfortunately, 1 find myself almost alone. Not one state official has condemned these killings, even though they are obviously part of a multistate problem. Mr. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE

Speaker, I think it is time for our Governor, who prides Mr. Speaker, 1 call upon the Governor and the Attorney himself on his glory days of sending corrupt politicians to jail, General, not only to abide by the letter of the law and ferret to speak out publicly and denounce this sorry state of affairs. out the culprits of these horrendous crimes, but to observe the I think it is time also that our newly elected state Attorney spirit of the law by publicly denouncing the moral vacuum General should speak out on the situation. Instead, our that demands the integrity of our Commonwealth and its citi- Governor seems more interested in punishing former political zens. Mr. Speaker, 1 thank you for having allowed me this allies whose only crime has been to exercise their political opportunity to speak to this great body. rights guaranteed them under the United States Constitution. And, instead, Mr. Speaker, our Attorney Gcncral is more REMARKS ON VOTES concerned with convincing the legislature that he should have more money to decorate his lavish office in Strawberry The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Square. Mr. Speaker, I suggest that the state government of Montgomery, Mr. Gladeck. Pennsylvania has been slow to react to this crisis, not deliber- Mr. GLADECK. Mr. Speaker, I was out of my seat on the ately, perhaps, but the procrastination exists nevertheless. roll call vote on HB 5 and I would like to be recorded in the Only a few years ago our citizens werc aroused over the affirmative. Thank you. slightest hint of corrupt politicians and crooked state The SPEAKER. The remarks of the gentleman will be employes. Laws were passed with a speed unknown in our spread upon the record. history. Grand juries were formed and indictments issued The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Westmoreland, with unprecedented voracity. Political careers were made on Mr. Kukovich. the basis of cleaning up corruption in the states. Mr. Speaker, Mr. KUKOVICH. Mr. Speaker, I, too, was out of my seat is corruption bad only when it affects state government? Arc on the taking of the roll call on HB 5 and ask that my name be our officials responsible for finding and uprooting any recorded in the affirmative. corruption of our laws regardless of the form that corruption The SPEAKER. The remarks of the gentleman will be takes? spread upon the record. We know that mob elements are fighting for control of Atlantic City's trade in narcotics, prostitution, loan sharking, LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE number games, and even the stifling of casino cash. We all are MEETING CANCELED aware what is going on in Atlantic City and we all know that examples are being made. These could doom forever an The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from attempt to have expanded legalized gambling in Pennsylvania, York, Mr. Foster. which has been envisioned as a last-chance source for addi- Mr. A. C. FOSTER. I would just like to announce at this tional funding of education and senior citizen programs. time that the committee on Local Government scheduled for Mr. Speaker, but do we realize what corruption we already Thursday morning will be canceled. have here in our cities and state, in our streets and bars, in our The SPEAKER. There will be no further votes today, but union offices and, yes, maybe even in our government? Does the members should be reminded that session begins anyone care at all or does it sound just like last night's episode tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. sharp. of "The Gangster Chronicle"? Where does this attitude of looking the other way get us? Mr. Speaker, 1 mentioned BILL SIGNED BY SPEAKER earlier the moral vacuum which I believe exists on this subject of organized crime. A vacuum occurs, as you know, because The Chair gave notice that he was about to sign the there is no equal of compensating pressure to fill the space. following bill, which was then signed: What this vacuum does in this case is to allow the person on the street to wink at the criminal activity he sees around him. An Act amending the act of May 11, 1889 (P. L. 188, No. 210), Yes, this week, and I read an article in the Philadelphia news- entitled "A further supplement to an act, entitled 'An act to paper about the burial of the last mob target. A woman was establish a board of wardens for the Port of Philadelphia, and for quoted referring to the body in the casket and she said, and 1 the regulation of pilots and pilotage, and for other purposes,' quote, "These people are just trying to make a living. A little approved March twenty-ninth, one thousand eight hundred and three, and for regulating of rates of pilotage and number of gambling, what's that?" And the reporter added that the pilots," further regulating the rates of pilotage. woman believed that crimes of corrupt politicians were far worse than those of alleged mobsters. REPORT FROM DEPARTMENT OF Mr. Speaker, this body has spoken out time and time again ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCES on the unsavory influences of corrupt politicians. But have we even bothered to say and do something about the young girl The SPEAKER. The Chair acknowledges receipt of a led into prostitution, or the young man who shoots his arm report from the Honorable Clifford Jones, Secretary of Envi- full of heroin death? Have we even asked ourselves why? Or is ronmental Resources, dated March 13, 1981, regarding the that too much of a gamble for us? Annual Report of Environmental Radiation in Pennsylvania. which will be filed as part of the record. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24,

The following report was read: This extensive report on crime contains a brief summary for each major section. For example, the section on the Volume of Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Crime in Pennsylvania points out that Pennsylvania's crime rate, Environmental Resources although serious, is lower than most other states - we rank 45th March 13, 1981 among the 50 states. There are many other important findings Subject: Annual Report of Environmental such as: Radiation in Pennsylvania commitments of non-delinquents to delinquency insti- To: Hon. Matthew J. Ryan tutions has decreased by 98% since 1975; because of Speaker demographic shifts crime in Pennsylvania may start House of Representatives decreasing in the future: of Pennsylvania 84% of all admissions to county prisons and jails From: Clifford L. Jones during 1979 were detentioners, and Secretary of Environmental Resources overcrowding is increasingly becoming a major problem in our jails and prisons. Attached is the first report to be issued under the Environ- In an effort to better meet our responsibilities in coordinating mental Radiation Protection Act of 1979. the collection and analysis of criminal justice data, we are This document reports the results of DER's environmental working with state and local criminal justice system agencies to radiation monitoring program for the last six months of 1979. (1) eliminate unnecessary duplication of data collection, (2) Subsequent documents will report data for a whole calendar year provide uniform, compatible and reliable data on a year-to-year and will be issued annually. and agency-to-agency level, and (3) assist the State in establishing The monitoring program during this period found no signifi- its first integrated criminal justice information and statistics cant change in environmental radiation levels in the areas moni- system. This new system - Offender Based Transaction Statistics tored. (OBTS). will enable us, starting with 1981 data, to supply you It is important to recognize that the program has been with a report providing a step-by-step picture of offenders' move- expanded since the passage of the legislation and increased ments and activity as they progress through the entire criminal funding. That will also be reflected in the number of samples justice system. State and local decision-makers will have more collected and data points analyzed in subsequent reports. relevant information more quickly than in the past. If you have any~. questions concerning these svecific data or the I hope you will find the material contained in this report, infor- prugranl arcs in gcnzr31, plr'3\2 it.~,Ilrtc [

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE MARCH 24,

------definition of dealer-fitter; further defining "business of selling Mr. CORDISCO. Mr. Speaker, I move that this House of hearing aids," "advertise" and "fitting"; further providing for Representatives do now adjourn until Wednesday, March 25, persons excluded from registration; further providing for appli- 1981,at IOa.m.,e.s.t. cations for examination, temporary certificates and reciprocal registration; and prohibiting the sale of dispensing of hearing aids On the question, by certain persons. Will the House agree to the motion? STATE GOVERNMENT. Motion was agreed to, and at 3:46 p.m., e.s.t., the House adjourned. WELCOMES

The SPEAKER. The Chair welcomes to the hall of the House today the All-American Senior Citizens group from West Hazleton, Pennsylvania, here today as the guests of Mr. Correale Stevens. The Chair is pleased to welcome to the floor of the House Foreign Exchange Students Kate Donnelly from Australia and Federico Veirave of Argentina, who are attending Susquehanna Township High School. They are here today as the guests of Mr. Piccola of Dauphin County. The Chair welcomes at this time to the floor of the House Glenn and Dorothy Powell and their son, Thomas, from Ford City, Pennsylvania, here today as the guests of Mr. Live- ngood. The Chair is also pleased to.welcome to the hall of the House today, from the Wilson School District in Berks County, Bruce Fischer, Richard Miller, and Eric Sonon, here today as the guests of Mr. Davies of Berks County. And from Bucks County, the Chair is pleased to welcome to the floor of the House Commissioners Zettick and Warner, together with their solicitor, Robert White; Finance Director Allen, County Manager Newman, and Public Relations Director Lefcourt, here today as the guests of the Bucks County delegation. The Chair is pleased to welcome to the hall of the House representatives of the Philadelphia County Medical Society. The delegation is headed today, according to the Speaker's information, by Dr. Edward Clark, here today as the guests of Mr. Deal and the entire Philadelphia County delegation to the House of Representatives. The Chair welcomes to the floor of the House Mr. Robin Cole of the Pittsburgh Steelers and Reed L. Wilson of Wilson Associates, who are the guests today of the minority leader. Mr. K. Leroy Irvis and Mr. Tom Fee. The Chair is also extremely pleased to welcome to the floor of the House students from Delaware County who are partici- pants in the Close Up Program of government study, here today with their instructors Sue Munster and Liz Ball, guests of the delegation from Delaware County. The Chair further welcomes with pleasure to the floor of the House Dr. Fred Grogan and Dr. Rodger Opdahl and the Lycoming College political science students, here today as the guests of Messrs. Cimini and Grieco of Lycoming County. ADJOURNMENT 1 The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Bucks, Mr. Cordisco.