Master and Samsara 1998

A Transcribed Audio – Text Discourse

“God has not given me any sense of fear. He has removed the sense of fear from my mind, fear of disease and death. Disease is natural, death is natural. Dying of disease is not unnatural, just as death is not unnatural. We have come into a culture where pregnancy is treated as disease, and confinement for delivery is treated by doctors as sickness and not as something natural. So this kind of an artificial life we have slipped into makes us afraid of the security of the comfort; not the security of means. If your needs are secure comforts need not be secure. Everywhere we have to draw a line about what is absolutely necessary. I always feel that we can afford to retire much earlier than we are always doing. But I stress the point the youth, the first half of middle age must be put to maximum use to earn a retirement. To earn a retirement your middle age should be put to maximum use, maximum ability. Twelve hours a day. Earn maximum, put that money somewhere. Don’t embrace poverty because of lethargy in earning. That is not the right value. Beg, borrow or steal for retirement. You know the

old system? The Brahmin goes to the king straightaway ‘Maharaja! I have children and wife. I want to retire. I have been living on alms. But the children and my wife need some support.”

The King would ask, ‘Then, what are you going to do with yourself Brahmin?’

He would reply, ‘I’ll go in to Tapas. I am anxious to go to the forest.’

‘All right. I will give them a livelihood. You go beg for the sake of your Tapas.’

“See the equation. It was considered noble. That was the order that the shastras granted, the Smrutis. One would demand, ‘I am going to perform yagnam. I want money. I want some cows to be distributed to the Brahmins. I want money for the Yagna. I want so much money. Give me.’ The king is bound to give. A king who refuses money for yagnas or refuses money to support a poor Brahmin family was not considered a king. So the Brahmin was exempted from earning, authorised to beg for the sake of righteous dharmic life. Today, we are helping somebody suffering from unemployment. Mostly, we are helping

somebody who may incidentally be a lazy man, who is not skilled enough to employ himself, lacking in sufficient qualifications to get employed somewhere. He is in difficulty. So it is our moral responsibility to help him. Even for this kind of discharge of responsibilities in a poor society we have to earn, since we cannot beg. Money is the grease with which the wheels of life run. That is your petrol, your fuel. How can you travel? Righteous money, limited money should also be enough money. Always, enough is enough. More than enough is surplus. We will try to follow these values to the extent possible, to the extent that we are bold. A man should be bold and honest to the hilt. Whatever degree of honesty and boldness he has, that should be put to use in this direction. So that Dharma is now discharged. What is the use of a strong desire to retire and do Tapas? Man is unable to do so because he has denied himself the rightful earning in the name of Vairagya. It is not Vairagya. Not to earn is not Vairagya. Not to earn anything that you don’t need is wisdom, and deny oneself all the comforts for the sake of Tapas is Vairagya. When you can’t deny all the comforts or the basic needs of life for the sake of Tapas, you have to earn them rather

than fighting with them. So one has to live and then what you don’t need can be left behind. With the topsy turvy values of today, people are earning money, yet they don’t want to retire. Those who are forced to retire by the government do not give up even if they have money, due to the lust for power and capacity to earn more money. If that is parted he feels miserable about it. And a seventy five year old man goes fighting for a chair, competes with the younger fellows. A man who retired at the age of seventy two in Delhi, with the greatest grievance, he is running to the court. What is wrong in retiring at the age of seventy two even if it is by an ordinance or whatever? That has become our culture today. You must know how to retire, how soon to retire, when to retire. Vacate the chair for somebody to sit. It is like somebody sitting in the auditorium in a music concert, certainly not interested in the music but chattering with his neighbour, not vacating the chair while anxious audience are waiting outside for a chair.”

“Nobody would have approved my retirement taking the material facts into consideration. My first and eldest son was not only not employed but not married also. My second

son had just graduated and was without a job, waiting to be employed. I had two daughters. The second daughter’s marriage was performed on 17th June and exactly two months later on the 22nd August without even waiting for the month end and I quit the job. I left the job and walked out. It is not as though the pension benefits were enough to support an unemployed son or to marry him off or settle my second son. These were the circumstances. I said I needed my time for myself. My responsibility to my sons is discharged in a limited way. It is not less than the minimum. It is for him to find an employment for himself. Since our marriages are arranged, I shall arrange the marriage for him. Daughters can’t find husbands on their own. I found husbands for them. That’s all about it. My father asked, ‘What is the wisdom in retiring? Your sons are not settled.’ Suppose my sons take another ten years to settle.... In any case five and half years later I would have been thrown out. Even then the same circumstances would be existing. But today I am gaining 5 x 365 days for myself. Yes, about 1800 days. Then the price level was still low. Money had buying power at that time. What I got as pensionary benefits was quite enough for me and I was clever enough

to save money incidentally. Whenever possible. Whether it is my money or my friends’ money meant for charity is in the left drawer. To that I would add my extra benefits. Suppose once in a year or sometimes either the DA was increased or the pay scale was revised once in three or four years or I got a promotion, things in addition to my regular pay packet. Since they were not part of my routine budget, I would put it on a 50-50 basis. Fifty for charity, fifty for saving. I would buy a certificate or FDR at the bank. If somebody who is like my son wants to give his money as charity, his money was Rs.70/- my money was Rs.30/- in a hundred. That is the left side drawer. Right side drawer included savings...... And, you see, when I went to Hyderabad from Warangal on duty the expenditure that I would incur was hardly Rs.30/- . My T A bill was Rs.155/- for one day’s visit to Hyderabad to attend a meeting and come back. Legitimately, I would write ‘travelled in a friend’s car’, that’s it. I spent nothing. Still, according to rules I got Rs.155/- . So Rs. 125/- was the benefit. Out of Rs.150/-, Rs.75/- for charity and Rs.75/- for saving. And remember, when I retired I had so many FDRs that they were lasting even till 1995. End of 1995 I think I encashed a

ten year old FDR - Rs.12500/- or something. And when they reached some figure, I used to buy some land or some property here and there and all that would appreciate. For example, when along with four other friends I invested about Rs.1, 20,000/- in Bangalore on a land I got ten times that money within six years. Ten times I got back. So God knows how to give you, if you know how to be frugal about yourself, liberal about others. Two values. God has never allowed you to taste poverty. The poverty has always been kept at bay. And children, they have been struggling, they are also comfortable in spite of the struggle. They travel in comfortable cars only. They are living in good houses, wearing good dresses, eating good food along with their friends and relatives. And the debts are there. Debts and assets, they tally well. I have built an asset only to give it away to clear debts. I have been incurring debts, acquiring assets also. They would nullify. So, I used to call it expenditure for economy. The economic side you never suffer if you are really bent on dharmic, restful life with Dharma and Tapas. One must be in Munivritti. From the 60th year, one should not be in the material earning and things. Without dying of a disease one should be able to walk to the

site of the grave. There is pride in it. Dignity in it; rather than being carried by four people. Walking on two feet, is it not better if one can do it? Ultimately, it is a notional value. This way I have also supported my father till he was 104 years old. He came to me when he was seventy, having lost all his properties, penniless, nothing on; but all his pride intact. Dignity was very much kept at the same level, all time. For 34 years, he lived with me. Of course, my mother died very soon. My wife died later. At one time, my two daughters were married-off, living with their husbands. I remained with my widower father as a widower myself, without anyone to offer us lunch, dinner, even a cup of coffee which I had to make. At which time my elder daughter came and gave us support. Money in the bank was there. One or two assets I had already acquired could be encashed. I kept this place as a place of retirement. It was kept ready. My mother had already died and my wife took care of many things here, unpacked things, arranged things like furniture and telephone......

“ All that she said , on 29th May , 1984 when we were sitting in the

Car, ‘Now everything is ready, you should come and settle down here.’

“What about you are you not coming?”

‘Who knows? ’

“About 25 days later, she died. She died in perfect health. She came here. She did not live with me here. That’s all about it. Remember, the day of her death, my father was there .I was there. I prepared coffee for my father in the evening. My daughter returned in the evening from Rajahmundry and I took care of her for several months. I had nothing. Several months I had to go to somebody’s house. I was getting idlis from hotel and suddenly, my driver deserted me. What is money then? We had enough money. I could live in a three star hotel at least all 30 days. But that’s not my culture. Well, She gave me coffee, she gave lunch to my father at 12 ‘0’clock. Gave me some kind of beverage at 2.15. Died at 2.40. The water was still boiling. Powder was put in the filter. Just came to me. We were talking and suddenly she breathed her last with 40 seconds notice. That’s all about it. Less than a minute. I am not exaggerating . At 2.40, Dr.Viswanatham

talked to her. She told him, “Guruji is not alright. I am perfectly alright”, she said. That is the reply she gave. I was answering telephones keeping her body against that wall there. What I mean to say.....money or no money, what is destined to be suffered is there. So much of money, so many devotees, so many friends...... I had to go without food; without meals, I mean regular meals. Several days...... When I came back after the 12th day ceremony, my daughter had to go back to Rajahmundry and then for two or three days I was cooking. My father was given some food. The third or the fourth day again she came...... attending to the schools and settling her children somewhere. Immediately she shifted her children, two daughters, to Kakinada, put them in some school there. But even then.....it was not three or four days, it was one and half months. In these one and half months, I sent my father to my daughter. I stayed on. He asked me, “What are you going to do here?” I told him, ‘I can make my food. So you go and stay with Ambala in Rajahmundry. I’ll stay here.’ I was attending on my puja. Sometimes eating, sometimes not eating. Getting a few idlis from hotel when there was no time. Answering telephones. Sometimes I used to feed a guest also. I had

to spend six months in such circumstances. I had to send my daughter away. In the meanwhile my first daughter’s financial status crumbled. I had to take care of the children. My daughter and grandchildren. And then shift them to Hyderabad. Sent my father there. Round about December, 1984, I came here. Entire year of 1985 there was nobody here. My food was incidental. It was just a matter of chance. Few people use to be there, irregularly. Then in the month of May all the people came, some upanayanam was performed, children I remember. Later ultimately, in December, 1985 which means one and half years after my wife’s death, some sort of an establishment was made, a hotchpotch arrangement was put up here. Mr Raghavendran and wife, who became very sick in Madras, shifted here. Then another two months, we had no food, because they were also sick. The giver of the food was extremely frugal about it. Those persons had their own value system. Lots of money in the bank, everything, good furniture, TV, car, driver but no food. Telephone, everything...... except food. So it was in the end of Feb’86 that the kitchen was taken over, some sort of working was done for all of us. Then slowly it took another six months. By that time in

August’86, we were eating one normal meal and chota hazri in the afternoon. I am not exaggerating. In fact, I have omitted many things.....it took two years! Only in the month of August we had regular meals. Before that we were eating.....something. So Sathyavathi regained some kind of a health. She was able to stand on her feet. They had their own extremely bad days of dangerous sickness. He was declared as a cancer patient in 1983. I said Cancer or Leo; we’ll go back to Bhimili. You see cancer had to be fought with a lion’s heart! So cancer retired immediately. Sathyavathi was on her feet. Now you can see...... from 86 Feb to.....now.... she is the Annapurna. Money is not the criteria. You cannot depend on money. You cannot be very sure that money will take care of you. Not necessarily. So what is necessary is what is written. Destiny of your body decides what to eat. Viswanathan is a wealthy man also. He has donated lots of money for good things. Settled everything. What is he eating now? What is his wife eating? What are they eating? He doesn’t eat. He’s a diabetic. He is suffering. Did money help him? He is a man who has donated lakhs of rupees for good charity. That charity must be wealth for the next birth...... What a man needs is good

destiny. Health or no health. Food or no food. Poverty or riches. Spend time in Tapas. This morning in a sense of totally tired condition I said this samsaram and God don’t seem to comfortably co-exist in life. Either God should be there or samsaram should be there. It is always easy to forget God, live in samsaram more comfortably, rather than undergoing all kinds of discomfort thinking of God, unable to devote attention on Him, constantly being disturbed. It’s like practising singing with four undisciplined children in the house. You want to sing. They don’t allow you to sing. So, the ultimate time of choice has come. Because you know, destiny is.... I came. I could leave. I lost my wife on my way to Bhimili. I left behind my children. All the four of them. Employed or unemployed. Settled well or not settled. I used to give some money to my sons, for their support in Hyderabad. But has samsaram left me? I even refuse to think of them, what they need. Together with my wife I came to Kakinada. Spent about one and a half years there. She died. I came alone to this place. To the extent possible, I pay some attention to my children, when they draw my attention. Otherwise, if they don’t draw my attention to anything on my own I never telephoned my

children to find out how they are. My telephone bills will show. Very few calls to my children. Still, 1000 households pour into my household. So many...... Now, the question is from here, where? Which is the next threshold? Destination? That is my question. Samsara chases you also. But then, you have to be unattached to it. My life is an example. Samsara attaches itself to me, like everybody’s samsaram. Everybody’s welfare, marriage, children, sickness, promotions, transfers, houses, constructions, muhurtams, Jatakam, dangers, accidents, hospitalisations, operations, what not. From 1000 households..... That is attaching itself to me. If I am attached to one of them, I would have died 10 years ago. Non-attachment is the key. But then live in your own world. Only communicate with others in their world. Don’t live with them in their world. Communicate with them with all kindness, with honest concern for their welfare, honest prayers to God for their welfare; communicate with them in their world. Don’t live with them in their world. Does it make some sense? If you are sick, I am honestly concerned. If there is a problem in your office to you, I am honestly concerned about it, which is why there is some relief by my prayers. Non-

attachment. Absolute concession. Attachment is in the heart. Attachment with warmth. Attachment without bondage. That is how God has given me. That is my design, probably. I am not claiming any greatness.....I don’t know. I pray to God for His grace. How is God living in the entire Universe with so many rakshasas, demons and devils, hells, heavens? Is He not living with the world? That is love without attachment. Pure love is love without attachment. You can love anybody. Honestly. Make him feel the warmth of your love. He feels your love, enjoys your love. He does not imagine your love. He realises that you still love him very much. That’s all about it. I lost my wife. I have lost one or two good devotees, friends. Death is common, routine. It is nature. Nothing unnatural about it. So, a wise man is neither shocked, nor surprised. Because everything is destroyed. That is the dharma of nature. Whatever happens should be obvious to you. That is the only way we should think. Your attachment and involvement in one single home is capable of destroying you. If you involve yourself in a 100 homes, should I say that he is likely to go to hell? He need not go to hell. He is already in hell. How many kinds of problems? On an

average, serious problems, suddenly cropping up are at least six to eight a day. Suddenly something happens to somebody. For example, Anjaneyulu developed tumour. Sudden problem. First thing they think of is telephoning to me. Not going to the doctor. The first thought comes to their mind is to contact me. How can I say I am not bothered, do what you like? Destiny is going to take its own course. What can I do for it? What is the use of telling me about this? These are not the words that cross my mind. First thing is, is it so? I am there with Anjaneyulu. First with a prayer not as a human being. Human being can share your sorrow. But as a human being, fully charged with the thought of God, with Him, ask Him for urgent relief...... guidance...... safe operation, return home, successfully come out of the problem, shall be my prayer and immediately I am there with him. What I discuss with his family members is incidental. That is not important. That does not tire me. Love never tires. Attachment tires. That is the truth of life. A mother loves her children. Is she tired of loving them? That is the nature of love that God has in His heart. God loves everyone, absolutely not concerned about anyone beyond the limit of prayer offered to Him.

Inspire of love, He will not interfere if there is no prayer. If there is a prayer, to the extent of the prayer only. Not a little more. He never gives any bonus to anybody. The very bonus is already granted to the world. Himself. It is above the karma of the man. Karma of the man is the wage. Your karma is your wages. Over and above that, His presence is your bonus. Nothing is owed to you. But He has made Himself available as a bonus, if you pray. Above your karma. There can’t be a bonus on bonus. That is good enough. Adopt.....try to adopt the same kind of attitude as God has. You can ask for it. Anything is God-given. Wisdom is given by God. But you call it acquisition of wisdom because you do the prayer. That’s all about it. Prayer is your labour. Boon is your wage.”

“The philosophy of life is endless. We have to settle down to some kind of ultimate stability. There should be no open questions. There should be no unstable wheels. All the four wheels must be resting on the ground with a road grip. So all values must be finalised. I have always been thinking of these things even in my teens, when I used to sit alone on the banks of Godavari in the evening time. There were no people, except the ghat where a

few people would be bathing. Flowing river. Flowing to the south.....to the sea. Nature was the mother. Nature was the teacher. Nature gave me the tranquillity. And peace of mind to think undisturbed. Slowly a scheme of things used to emerge. There used to be a nice logic built-up. People understand everything by example. Examples used to be presenting themselves straight, before me. If this is the law, this is the rule. What is the example? It used to come into my mind before me. So, I am convinced. Logic. The building- up of a logical, philosophy of life was the process I went through in my teens. Then who is the teacher? Who is the benefactor? God! Even when God is cursed to live as a human being, He has to acquire this wisdom on earth. That is not brought with Him. That wisdom in the other world is not valid. It does not apply. Gods are not Jnanis. They have Jnana in their world. They have Dharma of their World. Not the Dharma and Jnana of the earth. Vidhura and Bhishma are fallen Gods. Both of them. They were incarnations. As soon as they came to the earth - because of their background in a higher world - they descended here, they lost no time in learning. Krishna had nothing to learn .Right from his childhood he was active;

he straightaway implemented the philosophy of life, in all its glory, in all its perfection, in all its limits of finish. He implemented Dharma. These two learnt Dharma without loss of time. Even at the time of death, no one ever thought of learning what Dharma is. There are examples of Duryodhana and the others. We have all the wide range in Mahabharata.”

Indra asking Karna for Kavacha Kundala - is it attachment?

“There is a promise by Indra that he would protect. And for another reason. Whether Dharma or adharma, Karna was in the wrong camp. With great personal merits, he was on the side of adharma. His personal merits should not be able to protect adharma. It is better he is defeated at the hands of Dharma which is a good reward for him for his good values. If Karna were to be successful in the battle, fighting successfully for adharma, on the side of adharma then, he would be committing the sin of supporting adharma in spite of his values. He would suffer more for the sin. The sins are washed by getting killed, which is why the thought of fighting against the Pandavas arose in him. Bhishma and Dronacharya thought they would be cleansed,

by death. ‘We’ll keep seeing the Lord before us, all the time. Not behind us. And then we will get killed in the battle field according to one dharma - Kshatra dharma. That is alright for us.’ It was clear to them. ‘What is the purpose, what is the achievement in living? Having supported adharma so long in Duryodana’s court and then talking of switching to the side of Dharma and then surviving - how is the sin going to be washed? Having supported Duryodhana so far we are likely to go to hell for this. Having supported the partnership of adharma.’ So there is wisdom. This is another argument. They were not spared. Their heads rolled in the dust for whatever they witnessed helplessly, supporting the king. Values of life - certain values are constant in all Yugas. Certain norms may change from Yuga to Yuga.”

“There were two sisters. The younger sister was teaching in a college. She did her M.Phil. and all that in Telugu literature. A very good person. She died last year. Not last year. Five months after my father passed away. The other sister is Ambika’s mother-in-law. She’s there. Everything is obvious. If I have to go without meal for ten days, it should be obvious to me. What is so strange? The

heavens are not falling suddenly. It should be taken in stride. Samsara itself is a design by itself. You don’t have to specially design it. Samsara itself is like this. Whether you have Bali Chakravarthy or Sibi Chakravarthy or Dharmaraja or Venkateswaran. Incidents keep on varying. My physical body is my liability. And that is the only sick asset I have. That is my sick asset and my liability also. It is a liability because it demands some food, some sleep. If there is a backache or a stomach bloating I have to seek rest and respite. At the same time, it is the instrument with which I am living along, with all my conditions, communicating with the world, limitlessly, without any choice of my own. I have no choice. Everyone else has a choice with me. So I have no choice. My body demands and my body-mind complex demands continuous rest without break, from this minute. And this is the state of affairs not now, 15 years ago, 16 years ago. The body became defective in 1980. Now I have completed 18 years. But I have no choice. Whether it is presiding over a function in public sitting with dignity, not showing my stomach or talking to people or walking with people or travelling far and wide, attending to functions, discharging obligations, attending

to people, puja and all that. Today the condition is such, I can afford to do one and half hour puja and religious routine only once in the morning. I have to do it twice. I cannot afford to speak to people even for 10 minutes in the morning. Because that little soft food I eat should be eaten before 10 `o’ clock. I would have answered about 20 calls sharing another 20 with them. Answering all kinds of anxious enquiries, hearing reports of emergencies, sickness, hospitalisation, accidents, missing child, it could be anything. Then perform my puja and go in there. The earliest I can hope to come back is 12 `o’ clock. The stomach is already loaded with wind. The wind is not thrown out. The food is inside waiting. You see, at 10.30 when I belch, that means the morning coffee that I had sipped has gone down to the stomach, really. But that is it. Still, I have to keep some schedule. I have to dictate an article or write. Still it has become beyond my capacity to answer the mail. Greetings, people write letters inviting me for a marriage, sending invitation cards and all that seeking my blessings. I do give my blessings silently from here. But to make them comfortable I could have sent latest a telegram, write two lines, that has become totally non-existent. I am

not able to do it. All this is obvious to me. Again, in spite of the stomach condition, the trouble, the ill-health or the demand of the society, the extremely trying tiresome schedule I am surviving. The problems of the Trust. Problems of the college. Problems of my son. Apart from my limited circle, my eldest son, his problems, the grandchild complaining about this or that , my daughter , grand-daughter’s problems - here and there - so what not? Go into the nature. Go into samajam. Samajam is samsaram. Go into samsaram. The minor details are not designed. Incidentally, you are thrown somewhere, that’s all. There is a mother. There is a father. Later there is a school, a wife, some children, and friends - incidental. Samsaram is the same that’s all I say. For the sake of Dharma to be re-established, what should be the approach? Who should teach the society? An Avatar! Avatar is not easy to come. The time is not right, for so many reasons. So there have to an Amsa-Chaya - a ray in so many forms. Is anyone capable of combining the entire mankind or at least the human beings in Bharath Varsh in the Indian sub-continent itself? Suppose Krishna is born again, as Krishna Himself, in the same form - even then he will fail to convince half of the

population. There were 11 units of army against seven of His. So, there was more opposition than acceptance, even then. Who will accept Him now? If an Avatar comes as a Hindu God, Muslims will oppose, Christians will reject and nasthiks among the Hindus will reject. If Jesus Christ comes again in the same form, He is nobody to Hindus, nobody to Muslims. So the incidental birth of His in some family is branded. So a branded genuine material. We depend on ISI mark for every damn thing even if it’s a brush and tooth paste. Somebody has to certify. Who will accept Him? Who will certify? Then what? We have to have so many qualities which cannot be combined into one. We need a team. Team has to be designed. The process of thinking, observing the society and the current history and then coming to some kind of conclusions on the requirements, it takes time. That is the time I have taken, in all my life. Then go to the God with a prayer and a sankalpa within your limited capacity as a Yogi, design a few people, invite a few people into some form , allot something with your limited capacity, do what you can, plan. Do plan. The number came to 13. Alright. We need 13 personalities. Thirteen people have to be selected. We

cannot select those people born incidentally on account of their destiny. That means they have to be brain-washed first. Washed, starched, ironed and then. I am not such a good washer. So design births. How long does it take to understand and observe the current history? Imagine, think. This is the kind of tapas, both at the unconscious level and at the mental level. With a physical living with exacting demands, on the body. This process has developed. Some people are born. Some are in the process of arriving. Some shall arrive. Some. For which purpose? Sometimes it so happens an existing person has to leave early so he comes back in the appropriate way with his nature personally touched and well-shaped. Having digested this message, understood this world, come back, dress yourself like this - come. So he has to leave. It is not a simple process. Yet I survive on my own, with my own energies intact, because even in this I am not totally involved. I am involved to a limit. If at all there is a maximum involvement of my ego in something, it is in this. Everything else is genuine but it is only a surface involvement. Genuine concern and surface involvement in everybody’s life. In this the values of Brahmaloka down to Narakam and Swargam,

the values Satya yuga, kritha yugam down to kali yugam, the values of all that has happened, all Avatars, all religions, all good thinkers, all have to be taken into account and sieved to give us a proper design of basic genuine material. So design requires an understanding of the past and the present and then designs a future. Not the designs of destinies of men, but design the destiny. The form of teaching community that limited number of a team of 13. It has to take place. And then do tapas for this. You can’t order these things at the mental level. Like ordering the carpenter to make a chair. The level is different. The sankalpa has to be perfected. A sankalpa that is meant only for the good. Because I believe, in my understanding of the past and the present and the future that today, we are at cross-roads. The junction point of a road where two roads are forking. One is the right direction for the good of the mankind, one is the wrong direction. You have to choose and direct. The Vedanta says you are nobody. Everything is the sankalpa of the Yugas and the Gods. But then God has also been playing a role, on several occasions. So a role has to be played which is part of the total destiny, may be even my arrival, my thinking, my designing, my desiring, my

praying for it and something happening on that account. Totally part of the universal destiny for which reason I don’t claim the authority. In the ultimate sense nobody can claim. So if it is the destiny of the Dwapara Yuga that Krishna should come, Krishna came. So He is not independent. Part of the human destiny - his arrival. Destiny in a sense is universal. And the destiny of the man, the role played by man or an individual is incidental in the total destiny. That is how we have to understand. Incidental and choice less also. He has chosen to come, apparently. But that choice is destined, in the ultimate sense. We should understand these things.”

“One should discharge his debts, which he owes to the society, early in life and concentrate on what he owes to himself. What is swadharma? I am a Vysya, I am a Brahmin, I am a carpenter - this is not swadharma. Swadharma is what a jeeva owes to him. The mukti-marga. That is swadharma. Death in performing that Dharma is Shreya’s - that is Moksha. How can Dharma be ascribed to what you physically do with your hands and feet? Sudra Dharma - Vysya Dharma- all that - wife’s dharma is to cook. It is stupid. Para

Dharma - Any dharma other than the Adhyatmika Dharma is dangerous. It is fraught with risks, failures, sorrows. Leaving the body in the performance of Dharma is series. That is not death. Shreya’s means Moksha. God’s words I say! How can they be interpreted and related to carpenter mechanics, electrical engineers and mechanical engineers? Is that a Dharma at all? Can you call it Dharma?. I have been discussing, talking....I am not tired of this. Tired mentally when I am bogged down by the problems of Dharma and people...and constantly people are disturbing me about this problem or that. Physical body and mind are tired. But I am not that, so, therefore I am not tired. I am surviving. How am I living at the age of 70, this kind of life? Non-attached suffering.”