N O R M A N F O S T E R NOVEMBER 2017 NOVEMBER ISSUE143

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(OPPOSITE) Stephen M. Ross West Side Glory overlooking the Hudson Yards construction site. In concert with an ensemble of boldfaced architects and designers, Stephen M. Ross masterminds a career-defining mega-project.

INTERVIEW BY SPENCER BAILEY PHOTOS BY OGATA

Stephen M. Ross appears hurried and billion in real estate assets? How did he outfits such as Yabu Pushelberg, Kara harried, if not a bit irritated. We’re on come to be, as he claims, “the largest Mann, and Meyer Davis. the 24th floor of , and developer in the ”? What Ross’s career reached a sort of apo- the Related Companies founder and led him to create Hudson Yards (which, theosis in 2004, with the completion chairman has just bounded into the according to Fortune magazine, is the of the statement-making Time Warner room 20 minutes late for our interview. largest private-sector residential and Center towers, at Columbus Circle. We shake hands—his grip is noticeably commercial development in U.S. his- In magazine, architecture tight and strong—and without pause tory)? And, most pressing, will he be critic Joseph Giovannini at once com- he finds his seat in front of the video able to pull off his massive vision? plimented and pooh-poohed the SOM- cameras, ready to get down to business. After starting his early career, in designed project, calling it “magnifi- Clearly, he is comfortable in this chair. the late 1960s, as a tax attorney, Ross cent yet subtle in its elusive profile, A slight grin emerges as the questions founded Related in 1972 and built his and complex in the three-dimensional begin. It’s evident that Ross enjoys talk- now-legendary reputation over the puzzle of its diversified program—but ing about his work—Related’s sprawl- following three decades by creating disappointing in what should have been ing Hudson Yards development and low-income and affordable housing a convincing follow-through.” Three the company’s various mixed-use proj- and as the shrewd businessman behind years after its opening, the New York ects in particular—even if segments of a wide range of efficiently designed Daily News hailed it as “New York’s his commentary include the same bold, and constructed apartment buildings, retail, office, and residential mecca.” pumped-up sound bites he’s already condominiums, and mixed-use proj- The largely positive press surround- trotted out to the press (for example, lik- ects in cities including Abu Dhabi, ing the Time Warner Center open- ening Thomas Heatherwick’s 15-story , , , , and ing seemed to drown out—albeit not “” staircase sculpture to a year- New York. A majority of these efforts stifle—the failures of another promi- round version of the Rockefeller Center proved transformative for the neigh- nent Related project that finished Christmas tree, or dubbing it New borhoods they were constructed in. construction in 2005, the Charles York City’s answer to the Eiffel Tower). Yet, until the aughts—as was the case Gwathmey–designed Astor Place Studied and exacting in his words, the with most development projects at the tower. Paul Goldberger, at the time seasoned real estate booster has his lines time—they were rarely architectur- The New Yorker’s architecture critic, down pat, peppering his statements ally noteworthy. Robert A.M. Stern’s decried its brashness and lack of his- with the word “unique” and praising Chatham tower on Manhattan’s Upper toric sensitivity, describing it as “an elf Hudson Yards as “the greatest example East Side, completed in 2001, marked prancing among men.” He continued, of a live, work, play environment” more the beginning of a new design-driven “By designing a tower with such a self- than once in our conversation. era at Related, with commissions since conscious shimmer, the architect has So how did he get here? What brought then going to architecture firms includ- destroyed the illusion that this neigh- Ross to this point—as the omnipo- ing Foster + Partners, OMA, and Zaha borhood, which underwent gentrifica- tent leader of Related, in charge of $50 Hadid Architects, as well as interiors tion long ago, is now anything other

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You grew up in Detroit, where your father was an inventor—he developed an early version of a coffee vending machine. Did you ever think about design as a kid?

Never. I think I probably got my taste from my mother. She liked antiques. I used to tell her, “This is old furni- ture!” But she tried to explain to me [its value], and I developed some type of appreciation for it over time. I prob- ably got the creative aspects of what I do from my father.

What was your relationship like?

I never saw him. He was always in his office or store—he was so immersed. When you have his type of profes- sion, and you’re always tinkering and trying to create something, it’s not at home. I learned by watching him and thinking, as opposed to him actually teaching me.

In 1962, you received your undergraduate degree in accounting from the University of Michigan. Why accounting?

I’ve always loved numbers. Once I started getting involved with them, though, there wasn't really a creative aspect to it. I think that’s why I went on to tax law [receiv- than a place for the rich.“ Last year, the SAP as tenants; at the end of last year, will be announced this fall; and a deal has ing a J.D. from Wayne State University real estate website featured it as asset-management firm Blackrock signed been finalized to build a mixed-use proj- in 1965 and an LL.M. from New York No. 13 on its list of “’s 15 a 20-year lease for a space at 50 Hudson ect on 62 acres of vacant land south of University in 1966]. People have a total ugliest buildings.” Yards. the . [Full disclosure: This misconception of what tax law is about. How Hudson Yards will be received Key to bringing together this con- author’s second cousin, Curt R. Bailey, is It’s probably the most creative part of law, remains to be seen. But developers, jour- stellation of parts, Ross says, is data. the president of Related Midwest.] because you’re always trying to find ways nalists, critics, politicians, and urban According to the developer, Hudson Despite all this going on, Hudson of doing something that the code says planners around the world are watch- Yards is going to be “the most con- Yards remains the undertaking that while also trying to reduce the amount of ing closely. It’s beyond ambitious in its nected, measured, and technologically Ross is most engaged in and excited taxes. You’re looking to avoid taxes, not scale, and has tremendous potential to advanced digital district in the nation, about. After our interview, he heads evade them. set a standard for cities of the future. with state-of-the-art infrastructure.” to a room with floor-to-ceiling win- But if it flops, the consequences—for The company is already collaborat- dows overlooking the site, where he I imagine this background proved helpful the city, for Related, and for Ross—are ing on data studies with New York peers down at the world he’s building when you founded Related. unfathomable. Luckily for the devel- University’s Center for Urban Science below. A sense of satisfaction and ease oper and his firm, nearly all signs thus and Progress, and Ross says that a pro- appears to rush over him. The place Being successful in real estate is about far point to success. posed partnership with is is a hive of activity. cultural solving problems, but also having a When completed—most of the first under discussion. Related claims that center, designed by Diller Scofidio + feel for what’s going on around you, in phase is slated for 2019; the second phase the entire 28-acre project, with its 16 Renfro and Rockwell Group, is tak- every aspect, be it political, what peo- is scheduled to finish in 2025—the $25 buildings and well-appointed public ing shape. Vessel is already 11 stories ple’s thoughts are, where their tastes billion development will include, among space, will create more than 23,000 con- high and rising. The KPF and Kevin are, the direction things are going. other things, more than 18 million square struction jobs by the time it’s finished. Roche–designed It’s a question of putting the details feet of commercial and residential space The company is continuing apace tower recently topped out at 780 feet. 30 together, and staying on top of them. (as with Time Warner Center, it’s primar- with a slew of projects elsewhere, too. Hudson Yards, also by KPF, continues This is really what separates a good ily targeting the rich); a 750-seat public In California, it recently opened afford- to climb toward its 1,296-foot apex. developer from a bad one. Your pri- school; a Neiman Marcus flagship; the able housing complexes in San Francisco, Will Hudson Yards be the world’s mary goal shouldn’t be: What’s the first-ever Equinox Hotel (the brand is Palo Alto, and San Bernardino County. greatest example of a bustling, self- bottom line—how do I make the most owned by Related); and a collection of res- And in Chicago, another Robert A.M. sustaining, data-driven neighborhood? money? It should be about satisfying taurants selected by Thomas Keller. The Stern tower—the architect’s first in the On a recent Monday morning, Ross was (THIS SPREAD) Scenes inside the goal of making what your customer 10 Hudson Yards tower, which opened city—is rising; plans for the redevelop- happy to tell Surface why he certainly the “Experience Center,” at wants, and making where you’re work- in May 2016, counts Coach, L’Oréal, and ment of the long-dormant thinks so. 10 Hudson Yards. ing a better place. >

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(OPPOSITE) Models of Diller Scofidio + Renfro and Rockwell Group’s The Shed cultural center and Heatherwick’s Vessel.

Related has made hiring prominent How did you choose Heatherwick? THOMAS HEATHERWICK architects a big part of its business. FOUNDER, HEATHERWICK DAVID CHILDS With Hudson Yards, you have so many I went out and I spoke to some of the STUDIO CHAIRMAN EMERITUS, different players involved—David Childs greatest artists in the world, and, in SKIDMORE, OWINGS, of SOM, Bill Pedersen of KPF, Norman fact, had some even do maquettes for “My team sat down with Mr. & MERRILL Foster, and others. What was it like put- us. I approached him because I love the Ross and [Related Hudson Yards ting together this cast of characters? president] Jay Cross quite early “Without a doubt, Stephen is my cauldron he did for the 2012 Olympics on, when they were in the com- favorite client. Stephen always in London, and when I looked into his petition phase. The thrilling thing listens. If you have a reason to Really challenging. We had so many work, I saw he’d done a number of other was the idea of making a square do something different—and different stakeholders. Trying to put it great things, like the U.K. Pavilion at the that many thousands of people this is in general, not just with all together to satisfy them was like cre- World Expo in 2010 in . When could go to. We were trying to the architecture—he’ll listen. ating a Swiss clock. But I’m very happy he presented the idea for Vessel, I said, think about how we could engage But he makes architects listen, with the way it came out. “I'll do it.” I fell in love with it the min- the public as much as possible. too. He has convictions about ute I saw it. All the people around me How did you pick these specific firms? We looked to the Chand Baori things, and, I must say, I find that thought I was nuts, but I really thought, stepwell in Rajasthan, India, this a very attractive thing in making This is something totally unique, very structure that creates a kind of buildings. He’ll even overrule More or less [by] interviewing them. iconic, participatory, and would really sacred choreography of human the people running the projects. You select the ones that you can relate be something that you could put in the movement. We asked, What if we That’s quite extraordinary. to. You want to deal with an architect middle that would attract people. got 154 flights of stairs—2,500 He’s strong in personality. who will really respect what you have Adjacent to Vessel there’s going to be individual steps? Could we bolt He’s clearly in charge. He walks to say. Too many architects just want to a major cultural center, the Shed, to those together to make some- into the room and people are build great structures for themselves, which former mayor Michael Bloomberg thing beautiful? deferential to him. But he isn’t their own ego, not caring what it looks recently donated $75 million. When we proposed this to rude. It’s just, “Here’s the top like with regard to the city, the urban the Related team and Mr. Ross, dog,” and if he has an opinion, aspects of it, or with how the public or we were thinking there was a he says it directly. He’s not high- the customer will relate to it. Right, you’ll have these two iconic two percent chance this project strung, although he still believes pieces right next to each other. I think When it’s completed, Hudson Yards would ever happen. But there was in a suit, a white shirt, and a tie. they really work well together, and will have an unusual centerpiece: an immediately positive response. Stephen is extremely loyal to both will attract people. Hudson Yards Thomas Heatherwick’s Vessel. Was this Initially, as British people, we his staff, but also to people who is really the greatest example of—and your idea? thought, Well, that’s just American work with him from the outside. probably will always be looked at as the overstatement—Americans are I’m doing a range of things greatest example of—a live, work, play known for being very enthusias- with him now—one in Chicago; Well, the rail yards were like a waste- environment. I don’t think there will tic. It took actually a few meetings the tower at ; land in the middle of New York City. ever be another Hudson Yards. But I for us to realize the Related team and an office building in West The question was: How are you going think people will come and look at it, was serious. They understood we Palm Beach, part of which is a to develop something here and have it from a sustainability standpoint, and would go on this journey together preservation job. He’s become be successful? I saw what was going and say, “I want a Hudson Yards in my to make something that had never a friend. We talk to each other on in this area, with the city and state city.” It will be the example everybody been made before. every now and then. He’ll ask me putting so much money into it, with points to. The Related team and Mr. for my opinion about whether he the extension of the 7 subway line, the Now that the Hudson Yards site is finally Ross are determined to make out- should hire this or that architect. way the was developing, becoming a reality, how does it feel? comes that are as wholehearted We all have clients we dread, but the re-zoning of the Hudson Park and as possible. It’s a long-term I look forward to my meetings Boulevard, and with the now $1.5 bil- vision. Not many developers think with Related. Stephen makes lion renovation of the . It’s exciting. I’ve always believed, what- that way. I can’t think of anybody himself available. He’ll call you At Hudson Yards, something had ever you do, you want to be best-in- else today who would have com- in the night. He’ll even take calls to happen, but it had to be great. The class. This building [10 Hudson Yards, missioned the Vessel project. Mr. when he’s on holiday. He just idea was to make a statement. I couldn’t designed by KPF] is considered the best Ross has the confidence to invest, loves what he does. He can’t just do another development. I thought, office building in New York. [Editor’s and to not get bogged down with wait to get up in the morning in order to make it work, and to get note: While we found significant cov- trying to please too many people and find a new deal.” —As told the people interested, you had to do erage of the building, we were unable and then end up with a committee to Spencer Bailey something outside the box. I wanted to to locate a critic or publication that engage the public. It had to be participa- described 10 Hudson Yards this way.] decision to the point that it loses tory, not just something to look at. There’s a reason for this: When you vision.” —S.B.

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We have all these sensors, and we’re I’m living the dream. Michigan, I Santa Clara—and several big develop- setting them up so that we’re collect- grew up there. I love the University ments in Chicago. The large-scale mixed- ing more data than probably any other of Michigan—it meant a lot to me, use projects are what I’m most interested place. A “wired community” is what and so it’s great to give back. I really in at this point. I’ve built enough indi- we’ve created. It’ll have an impact on the believe in giving back to society. I’ve vidual buildings. What really gets my way people live. Being a city within a been blessed. I’m very active with the juices flowing is the thought of doing the city, that’s new, and that’s what we really university, as well as with Wayne State most impactful projects in every major want to be the leader in. Essentially, this University’s business school. I want it city in the country. data will enable us to have a deep under- to be the number-one business school standing of where people are coming in the country. With regard to Miami, I This year marks 45 years since you from and when. Traffic patterns will went to high school there, I have a home started Related. Are there key lessons you’ve learned along the way, whether WILLIAM PEDERSEN help us do simple things like create logi- down there. I love Miami. But my heart it’s about design, urbanism... FOUNDING PARTNER, KOHN cal locations for taxi and car drop-offs is really in New York. This is where I PEDERSEN FOX ASSOCIATES and manage bike sharing, but also more live and work, and this is where my leg- intricate things like understanding how acy will be. I will have an impact at the Oh, you’re always learning. You make “Our collaboration with Related people move through the retail center University of Michigan and in Miami, mistakes along the way—you just don’t on Hudson Yards took place and where certain services need to be. but there's nothing like my impact want to make the same mistake twice. directly with Steve. He was in New York. It’s a question of recognizing your mis- the decision-maker at each of It seems like you obsess over cities, and takes, and figuring out how to solve our design meetings, of which are especially fond of three in particular: Would you consider doing a Hudson them going forward. Being a real estate there were hundreds. Steve is Manhattan, where you live and work; Ann Yards–like project in Detroit? developer is really one of the great pro- intensely interested in design Arbor, Michigan, home to the University of fessions in the world. I've been very and has a remarkably intuitive Michigan, to which you’ve donated $378 Oh yeah, we’re doing other large proj- fortunate. sense of what he likes and dis- million to date; and Miami, where you’re ects. Related continues to grow. We’re likes. His response is instanta- the principal owner of the Miami Dolphins doing two major mixed-used projects in This conversation was edited and con- neous. Over years of meetings NFL team and Hard Rock Stadium. California—one in , one in densed for clarity. • with him, I can, without exagger- ation, say that the design always improved after a meeting with Steve. This is the highest com- pliment I can give a client. We, as architects, never let a rejection of our ideas discourage us. We Heatherwick’s Vessel under saw it as an opportunity to make construction the project better. A cat always (OPPOSITE) Ross at the site. lands on its feet. Related’s [Hudson Yards] do the right thing, and you spend the Does Related or Hudson Yards plan to team is led by Jay Cross. Jay, money, and you handle all the details, combine forces with Cornell Tech in in a former life, was a nauti- people appreciate that. I don't think some way? cal designer. He has a highly anybody would have ever believed developed sense of design. His that today we’d have more than seven No question about it. Today it’s all about criticism and his support were million square feet of tenants already big data and how you use it. As we go fundamental to our working signed—and the best tenants, the lead- forward, we’re going to know more and relationship with the large team ers of industries. more about how we can really make the assembled by Related. It was a world a better place through technol- demanding experience—one I noticed you’re on the board of over- ogy. We’ve only had very preliminary of the most challenging of our seers for Cornell Tech, the new campus talks with Cornell Tech, but I would careers. But all of the effort on Roosevelt Island. What's your involve- expect we’ll be working together. expended by both architect and ment there? client is now proving itself on the From a technology perspective, what do New York skyline. Today, you can’t have a great city unless you hope Hudson Yards will accomplish? What’s being accomplished you have a major technology component. at Hudson Yards will bring to It’s not necessarily that you need to cre- We believe Hudson Yards could be one New York a dramatic new center ate new things, but every company has of the largest and most advanced quan- of activity to the city. Positioned to adapt to technology, or it won’t sur- tified communities and smart cities. at the northern terminus of the vive. What Cornell Tech says about New We will harness big data to continu- hugely successful High Line, York and technology—it’s a lot like what ally enhance the employee, resident, and connected to the center Stanford has done for Silicon Valley. We and visitor experience. Efforts will of Manhattan by the extended want to get the best and brightest minds include measuring, modeling, and pre- 7 subway line, Hudson Yards in the world. The corporations can grow dicting pedestrian flows and energy will bring a center of activity out of that, as we’ve seen in Silicon usage, including the optimization of an not achieved since Rockefeller Valley. Today, to stay the global leader, on-site cogeneration plant and thermal Center.” —S.B. New York needs technology. microgrid.

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