Seward Peninsula Federal Subsistence Regional Advisory Council Meeting

SEWARD PENINSULA SUBSISTENCE RAC 10/24/2018 SEWARD PENINSULA RAC MEETING 2

SEWARD PENINSULA FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING

PUBLIC MEETING

VOLUME II

Native Village of Unalakleet Community Building Unalakleet, Alaska October 24, 2018 9:00 a.m.

Members Present:

Louis Green, Chair Brandon Ahmasuk Tom Gray Deahl Katchatag Ronald Kirk Leland Oyoumick Charles Saccheus Elmer Seetot

Regional Council Coordinator - Karen Deatherage

Recorded and transcribed by:

Computer Matrix Court Reporters, LLC 135 Christensen Drive, Suite 2 Anchorage, AK 99501 907-227-5312; [email protected]

Computer Matrix, LLC Phone: 907-243-0668 135 Christensen Dr., Ste. 2., Anch. AK 99501 Fax: 907-243-1473 Email: [email protected] SEWARD PENINSULA SUBSISTENCE RAC 10/24/2018 SEWARD PENINSULA RAC MEETING 2

Page 172 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 3 (Unalakleet, Alaska - 10/24/2018) 4 5 (On record) 6 7 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Call to order. It's 8 09:16. And we have -- as we do at the beginning of the 9 meeting every day, we ask for public and tribal comment 10 on non-agenda items. If there's anybody on the phone. 11 I'm not sure if anybody's on there. Can you tell..... 12 13 MS. DEATHERAGE: Thirteen people. 14 15 CHAIRMAN GREEN: There's 13 people. 16 Okay. Do we have anybody that wants to make any 17 comments, public, tribal. These guys are -- yeah, come 18 up to the mic, please. 19 20 MR. JERRY IVANOFF: Good morning. 21 Welcome to Unalakleet. I'm glad you all made it in 22 nice and safe, and I'm really proud that you come to 23 Unalakleet to hold your meeting here. 24 25 A couple items of concern. First of 26 all the Chinook salmon. Thanks for the information on 27 the by-catch of our Chinook salmon by the CDQ groups, 28 and also by the entire fleet. I think that's where all 29 the damage is being done to our Chinook salmon not 30 coming back to us. I used to make a lot of money 31 commercial fishing, 20 years times $15,000 is $300,000 32 for fishermen that we lose in revenues. 33 34 More important than that though is the 35 loss that we have to our subsistence people. 36 Subsistence is supposed to be the highest and best use, 37 given a priority at the top of the list, but when 38 there's a management issue, be it Federal or State, the 39 first people that be regulated are us, the subsistence 40 users, our Native people on the AYK. 41 42 I have a couple issues I would like to 43 address. First I'd like to see if there's any plan on 44 the rehabilitation of the Chinook salmon. If there 45 isn't, then there should be. There should be some of 46 that CDQ or some of the total allowable catch of the 47 pollack in the Bering Sea should be put into a fund by 48 ADF&G fisheries biologists. CDQ fishers biologists. 49 Put king salmon in every stream on the AYK all the way 50

Page 173 1 up through Canada on the Yukon River, because those 2 guys are hurting. 3 4 The other issue is management, Federal 5 management on Federal lands. This dual management 6 issues don't work real good. I talked to some of the 7 Tanana people, and it's kind of scary; it's coming on 8 our way. I would like to see the Federal government, 9 the Federal Subsistence Board give power back to the 10 people, build on our trust-to-trust relationship, 11 government-to-government with the Federal government, 12 and place the Federal management of our fish and game 13 back to the Native villages all along. I don't know if 14 we're statewide or if you're just within our region, 15 but I see people within our region here. 16 17 So Native Village of Unalakleet should 18 be able to manage the entire river drainage to the 19 headwaters like we always did before. And I think that 20 should continue. We never depleted anything in our 21 river system. 22 23 The Native people here, our Native 24 village should set the moose hunting opening and 25 closures. You can deal with the limit, how many we can 26 catch, but the Native village should set the opening 27 and closures, and it's up to our elders and up to our 28 Native people to do that. 29 30 The other thing, I was sorry I -- I was 31 looking at your agenda and we were dealing with issues 32 of fishery closures, Chinook salmon on the Yukon River. 33 Did we make any decisions on that? Yes. And, you 34 know, being all Norton Sound people, I wonder why we 35 have any say in who opens and who closes the river. 36 And that should be up to them, their Native people. I 37 think we're all trying to feed our families, and we're 38 all trying to pass on our tradition. We have 12,000 39 years of history, and the State has been here since 40 1959, the U.S. government for 200 years. We have some 41 wisdom. Our people are smart. 42 43 And you sitting here, thank you for 44 serving, and thank you for your time. 45 46 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Jerry. 47 Just a comment there, the fish proposals, we pretty 48 much just went along with what was going, because it's 49 out -- the government wants to know what we think, too, 50

Page 174 1 so we pretty much agreed with what was there. We went 2 along with the people of the area. Tommy was really 3 good about making sure that's where we were going. We 4 supported their ideas on record. 5 6 MR. JERRY IVANOFF: Okay. And that's 7 supportive of the people on the Yukon, the Native 8 people? 9 10 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Yeah. We supported 11 what their decisions were for the record. 12 13 MR. JERRY IVANOFF: Okay. Good. Thank 14 you, much. 15 16 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you. 17 18 MR. JERRY IVANOFF: I didn't know that. 19 20 CHAIRMAN GREEN: No, that's good. 21 22 Tommy. 23 24 MR. GRAY: You talk about opening and 25 closing moose hunting and that is an agenda item today. 26 I'm not sure where it's going to fall in the deal, but 27 it will be talked about today, because one of the -- a 28 couple of the Board members brought that issue to this 29 Board. And, you know, we have opportunity to change 30 those dates or request that the dates on Federal lands 31 be changed to the big Board, in a special action change 32 those dates from now and 2020. If you wanted to 33 permanently change beyond that, a proposal would need 34 to go in. So we will be talking about this issue and 35 all the different angles today. 36 37 You talk about giving the fishery back 38 to the people. You know, I would -- you have people 39 sitting on this Board that deal with Federal lands and 40 fisheries. You know, we talk about fishery issues. I 41 can't say enough about being the squeaky wheel when it 42 comes to money and projects. You know, I've been the 43 squeaky wheel for my region, and I feel like I've hit 44 my head against a wall for 20 years. I have struggled 45 trying to get this Board to fund any programs in my 46 region over on Fish River, even though we have Federal 47 lands in the mountains, nobody want to listen to me. 48 49 And it's -- but be the squeaky wheel. 50

Page 175 1 Go after that money. You guys have had Federal dollars 2 from this program come here, and keep chasing it. Keep 3 demanding that that happens, because if you guys back 4 off on it, you know, we're your arm to this system. If 5 you back off, you're not going to get anything. Just 6 keep chasing that money and keep -- you know, the 7 important thing is to have projects I think in line, 8 something that you talk about prior to this meeting, so 9 when you come to this meeting, you can say, we want 10 this, this, and this. And we've talked about it, and 11 the community supports it. 12 13 It's like the moose thing. Yesterday 14 it came up and I wanted to see people in the public 15 talking about the moose issue. And so, you know, we 16 got a few people here today, but it's really important 17 that this comes from the community, and not just Tom 18 Gray sitting at the table, or Doug, or whoever, you 19 know. It's got to be bought by the community. 20 21 Thank you for coming. 22 23 MR. JERRY IVANOFF: Thanks for having 24 me, and thanks for being here in Unalakleet. And I 25 know that the people sitting at the table will serve 26 our people well. Maybe I have confidence that they 27 have all our votes, you know, knowing that you are our 28 representatives and we feel comfortable with you as our 29 Board members. So a little bit of confidence -- a lot 30 of confidence in that. 31 32 As for the moose thing, I really 33 believe the Native Village of Unalakleet should control 34 the timing of the opening and the closures. I don't 35 know who sets on that, how many can be caught by aerial 36 surveys, but I think we should control the river 37 drainage of the Unalakleet River all the way to the 38 headwaters of every one of our rivers from the South 39 River to the North River, the main river, the 40 Chiroskey, the Old Woman, Ten Mile, (in Native 41 language). That's our land. We have Native names to 42 it, you know, (in Native language). 43 44 As for the fisheries, I would 45 recommend, and I just came in from meeting with the 46 Bering Sea Elders Group a couple weeks ago, and they 47 timed it with the North Pacific Fisheries Management 48 Council. And they told us how to become vocal and 49 speak for what we want. 50

Page 176 1 At that meeting I asked the North 2 Pacific Fisheries Management Council to quit taking so 3 much and start giving back, and to put some money into 4 a Chinook salmon rehabilitation fund. And just exactly 5 what I said today, put it with the ADF&G, Fish and 6 Game, if they're able to do it. Put it with CDQ 7 fishers biologists around our region, but all the way 8 up the Yukon need to be included, because at this 9 meeting I found out that those people are hurting big 10 time. You know, they have no replacement and they hunt 11 and fish just like us. They have no jobs just like us. 12 So every time you take a cog in one of our subsistence 13 wheels away, we kind of hit that bump on an annual 14 basis, and I don't want the cogs to get more and more 15 so that I become a dependant Native person on the 16 Federal government. 17 18 I'm sorry. I like to hunt and fish, 19 and that's how I provide for my family. I get a lot of 20 caribou. I leave the moose to the local people, 21 because I can go get my caribou and fill my freezer 22 with caribou. That's what my wife wants. But without 23 my subsistence food, without my king salmon -- 24 commercially, I'm not worried about that, but as for 25 subsistence, and you are the Subsistence Board, we need 26 to do something to bring our king salmon back. 27 28 It's taken since 1982 for the high seas 29 interception to kill our -- bring us to this part. I 30 think it's going to take us another 30 years to bring 31 it back, but we need to start today. And I think the 32 recommendation from the Federal Subsistence Board to 33 whoever the powers that be behind you be strong and be 34 hard. We're hurting. Our people are hurting all 35 around the area. You've put a hurt on $300,000 for 36 fishermen here in Unalakleet alone, and then all along 37 -- I don't know who else fishes it with that magnitude, 38 you know. I know the Yukon River, Shaktoolik fishermen 39 did pretty well, but, you know, when you multiply 40 $300,000 times 10, that's three million dollars, you 41 know. So we're taking a big economic hit, but even 42 more importantly, we're taking a big subsistence hit, 43 and I don't want to lose the cog in our wheel for king 44 salmon. So something needs to be done. Drastic 45 measures. And like I said, we need to build on our 46 government-to-government relationship with the Federal 47 government to put some confidence in our people. Our 48 people have been here for along time, a lot longer than 49 there's been a government. 50

Page 177 1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks, Jerry. I've 2 got a question. Do you remember the Chinook summit we 3 had here a few years back and how Senator Olson was 4 scolding the State. What became of that in the 5 community here? Did you folks have any discussions on 6 how to go about rahabing Chinook salmon at all? Have 7 you had that conversation? 8 9 MR. JERRY IVANOFF: No, not in a 10 commercial -- not in a public meeting, but just -- I do 11 know working with the CDQ crew where I'm from almost 23 12 years, I did scholarships. But I do know that 13 fisheries biologists are incubating 30 pairs of Chinook 14 salmon, getting them to (in Native language) stage and 15 then letting them go, giving them better -- or (in 16 Native language) stage and letting them go, giving them 17 a better chance of survival in the ocean and come back. 18 19 Yeah, I'd like to see this increase, 20 like I said, take some of that total allowable catch of 21 pollack, give it three percent, five percent, hey, they 22 got only 10 percent of that total allowable catch. 23 You've got one percent of the monies from the oil. We 24 need a bigger percentage. We've been here a long time. 25 Some of us that are hurting, they need to take 26 responsibility for their actions. It's time to quick 27 taking and start giving back. 28 29 Louis, to answer your question, that 30 was a long answer. No, we haven't talked in a 31 community meeting how we'd like to rehab, but I think 32 Charlie Lean and our CDQ program with our in-stream 33 incubation program is a lot better option than the 34 hatcheries, because that don't endanger our wild stocks 35 by hatchery diseases and whatever, like Canada and that 36 neck of the woods. We don't want to endanger what we 37 have by trying to make something that we lost. But we 38 do want to do something to bring them back, and I think 39 in-stream incubators. Take this program that we have 40 here in Unalakleet, spread it out all along the Yukon, 41 spread it out in all the -- put it in the Fish River, 42 put it up at Brevig if you get to Kuzitrin. I think 43 Brevig and Teller should manage their fish up the 44 Kuzitrin River. Quick River, I don't know how many 45 kings you get go up that way, you know. And, you know, 46 as for Nome, I don't know if you get too much. But I 47 do know the river system from (In Native), Quick River 48 has a little bit, (In Native), but, you know, those are 49 Native names. 50

Page 178 1 And as for your jurisdiction to the 2 land, another thing I was wondering about with muskox. 3 I happened to catch one the other year. I hit the 4 panic button, because I'm not supposed to, but it was 5 right by my commercial fishing site, and I got up on 6 the bank, it took five steps at me and it scared the 7 heck out of me, so I knocked it over. The State came 8 and took the head away. I think that muskox should be 9 one be given to every Native village. It's an invasive 10 species, so if it comes in my land, I want to be able 11 to knock it over, unless it's protected by the Federal 12 Subsistence Board. 13 14 In any case, I'd still like the Native 15 Village of Unalakleet to be able to harvest one muskox 16 that can go into feed our people and put that skull on 17 the top of this hall. 18 19 Thank you. 20 21 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Jerry. You 22 had your fight with..... 23 24 MR. KIRK: Mr. Chairman..... 25 26 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Is that..... 27 28 MR. KIRK: Mr. Chairman, Ron from 29 Stebbins. 30 31 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Go ahead, Ron. Go 32 ahead. 33 34 MR. KIRK: Hey, I'm going to be cutting 35 out here. A plane just landed. I'm catching RAVN to 36 Unalakleet right now. So I'll be there. 37 38 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Go get it. 39 We'll see you when you get here. 40 41 MR. KIRK: Yep. 42 43 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So anyway, you had 44 your battle with muskox, I had mine in two o'clock in 45 the morning with a stick. It had been trying to kill 46 my dogs and I had to fight with it with a stick and ran 47 it off. But some people favor them and some people 48 don't, so it's kind of a mixed bag there. They are 49 good eating. 50

Page 179 1 It was a few years ago that this 2 Council came up with a 30,000 cap on chum salmon that 3 got circulated around. Do you recall that one? The 4 tribes were backing, everybody -- this is where it 5 started. Tim Smith drafted up the first..... 6 7 MR. JERRY IVANOFF: 1992 chum catch? 8 9 CHAIRMAN GREEN: No, this was just a 10 few years ago from this Council. We were asking for a 11 30,000 chum cap. And it went all the way to the North 12 Pacific Fisheries Management Council, but one of the 13 in-region -- regional entities bumped it up to 50,000, 14 so that's where it set. And I don't know what it is 15 today, if it's been changed or not, because I wasn't 16 involved in any of that after that. But, you know, 17 there certainly are things that we can do, but there's 18 stuff that we can't do. We don't have any control over 19 regulations. We make suggestions from this Council. 20 But based on what the public asks for, we try to 21 accommodate. So I just wanted you to know that. 22 23 The other one is the (Indiscernible) hatchery 24 in Kotzebue was above the Arctic Circle, performed 25 under the jurisdiction of the State for 14 years. And 26 those people just last season got 695,000 chum salmon 27 in their small little fishery. And they never had any 28 problems with diseases, and from what I -- this is for 29 information for people. Diseases amongst people. 30 There's diseases amongst salmon. And what happens when 31 a hatchery has a problem with a disease that is 32 introduced by themselves, they're just like us, they 33 get colds and flues and what not. Then pathologies 34 destroys all the fry and they don't release anything, 35 so it never gets out into the system. So that's a big 36 deal when it comes to that, you know. It's sterile, 37 it's not a thing that just gets rampantly thrown out 38 there. So their hatchery worked, and it's producing. 39 They were just sorry that they'd only got involved with 40 chum salmon, because they have waters and rivers up 41 there, lakes and stuff that could have supported smolt 42 fish like cohos or kings or reds. So just to kind of 43 take a bit of the fear out of it, that's what I know 44 about hatcheries, and I know about that one. In fact, 45 a friend of mine, Brian Booth, it was his father's 46 Native allotment, Theodore Booth's Native allotment 47 that they had that hatchery on there. So I just 48 thought I'd give you that information for people. 49 50

Page 180 1 I really appreciate you coming up here, 2 and I know you got a blue card. Are you going to be 3 here talking about moose after? We'll pull you back up 4 if you want to address moose when we get there. 5 6 MR. GRAY: Louis. 7 8 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Yeah. 9 10 MR. GRAY: I want to..... 11 12 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay, go ahead. 13 14 MR. GRAY: Okay. You talked about in- 15 stream hatcheries or incubation units. And I know Fish 16 and Game was really promoting that for a while. And I 17 don't know where Fish and Game is today with that. I 18 know they're not doing it. I sit on the RPT, which is 19 -- approves hatcheries and projects like you're talking 20 about. Big projects. So I would suggest you guys send 21 some people to the RPT meeting so you'd get an 22 understanding of how that process works. It's not our 23 job to bless and sanction hatcheries and in-stream 24 incubation processes and stuff like that, you know. 25 Our mission in life I guess is to support what the 26 subsistence issues are, and support funding projects. 27 Like, you know, we had somebody get up and talk about 28 some monies that are available next year, or today, or 29 something. And we're going to be talking about 30 projects that should be funded. And how that project 31 ends up really, you know, if you want 10 million kings 32 come in this river, how you get there, we're not going 33 to, so to speak, bless a hatchery or in-stream 34 incubation or things like that, but we will help you 35 get funding and get on the docket to make some of this 36 stuff come to pass. So there's arenas and boards and 37 places to ask for hatcheries or in-stream incubation, 38 and things like that. 39 40 Anyway, I just want to make sure you 41 understand that. 42 43 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Yeah. 44 45 MR. JERRY IVANOFF: Thanks, Tom. I do 46 understand. I've been to all the arenas from the North 47 Pacific Fisheries Management Council to Fish and Game 48 boards, the game boards themselves, the political 49 animals out there. The political engines that manage 50

Page 181 1 our resources are kind of intimidating to us local 2 people that has no red light/green light and have to 3 spend some money going into Anchorage to address them. 4 So that's why I'm so happy that you're here and that 5 you have public comment right up at front, because I am 6 a subsistence person and king salmon is a subsistence 7 issue. 8 9 I brought it up as a concern, a very, 10 very dire concern when that has happened, and since the 11 program, the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council 12 starts managing in 1982. That's 18 plus 18 is 36 13 years. Our king salmon are at the state today, because 14 of what they take, 120,000 in 2007 is a lot of king 15 salmon to take. That's more than we take in many, many 16 years. And they do it in one year and throw it away. 17 18 You know, it breaks my heart. Wanton 19 waste. We get in trouble when we kill a moose. We 20 spend $5,000 paying a fine and we go to jail for it. 21 But it's sanctioned wanton waste by our Federal 22 government, by our State management people agreeing 23 with it. I'm making the recommendation to the 24 Department of Interior, all the way up, you know. It's 25 wanton waste, plain and simple, and it's sanctioned by 26 the State, it's sanctioned by the Federal government, 27 and those are my kings that they're wanton wasting, and 28 that's why I bring it up at the Federal Subsistence 29 Board, because it is one of my subsistence cogs. And I 30 brought up the issue of how to possibly bring it back 31 and how to finance it, because I'm thinking beyond just 32 how do we make it. How do you fix it? I don't know. 33 You need to fix the hole in our bucket before we start 34 playing God and endanger the rest of our salmon 35 resources. But I think the hole in our bucket is not 36 fixed if they don't come back. I don't see them coming 37 back. And no matter how many fish we put into our 38 river systems. 39 40 So, first of all, we need to find that 41 hole in our bucket and we need to fill it, whether it 42 be the international government beyond 200 miles, our 43 Federal government from 3 to 200 miles. And that was 44 where I was wondering about your jurisdiction in the 45 ocean in our fisheries and our marine mammals. And 46 then the State government from zero to three. And 47 hopefully I got jurisdiction on some of this property 48 around here. 49 50

Page 182 1 Thank you. 2 3 And thank you for having me address the 4 Federal Subsistence Board RAC. Because I am a 5 subsistence person, the geese are flying, so I must 6 take leave and I'm going to go put on my gear and go 7 catch a goose. 8 9 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Yeah, you're short on 10 salmon, so it's geese this year. 11 12 Just to let you know that during AFN I 13 was down there, and I attended -- Dan Sullivan had a 14 hearing on the state of our salmon was the title of it. 15 And they had all the experts from the State and Federal 16 government, and then there was another panel there that 17 was like private. Let's see, Karen Gillis was on that 18 panel. And I heard a lot of we need more money for 19 research and we don't know what's going on out in the 20 ocean. 21 22 I did talk to our commissioner about 23 the intercept out there. Sam Cotten, and he said, 24 well, intercept is -- you know, by-catch is down on 25 like kings and whatnot. And then he said in the next 26 sentence was, but the stocks are down. And I said, 27 well, there you go. You're not going to catch as many 28 out there as you did in the past intercepting-wise or 29 by-catch-wise, because the numbers are down. I took 30 the words out of my mouth. So, I mean, he's aware of 31 it. He's the Commissioner of Fish and Game, and he's 32 the guy that can make a decision on -- Jerry, you and I 33 are in our 60s, most of these guys here, if we don't do 34 anything with hatchery work, we're not going to see the 35 returns that we'd like to see before we're gone, and 36 that to me is a cold fact, and that's what I believe. 37 38 And again that's my opinion. 39 40 Anyway, I really appreciate you coming, 41 taking your time. You'd better get out there. 42 43 If you've got anything more to throw at 44 me, go ahead. 45 46 MR. JERRY IVANOFF: No, just one more, 47 thank you. 48 49 And I did talk to Sam Cotten, too, and 50

Page 183 1 I did put -- you know, when I was there at Bering Sea 2 Elders Group, that I'd like to see some money go into 3 them from the North Pacific Fisheries Management 4 Council for the rehabilitation of our kings. But, 5 yeah, our king salmon need a lot of help, and I believe 6 that the damage is not done in one year like you 7 brought up, you know, our by-catch is down. I think 8 the damage is done cumulatively. If you take the 9 damage -- or the interception of our Chinook salmon 10 since 1982 by the North Pacific Fisheries Management 11 Council, you line it up on a slide, and then you add up 12 how many -- in 1980s how many; in the 1990s how many; 13 in 2000, and now how many from 2000 to 2008. You get 14 accumulative number, and that's where the damage is 15 done. 16 17 Thank you very much for your time and 18 welcome back to Unalakleet. 19 20 (In Native language) 21 22 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks, Jerry. 23 Appreciate it. 24 25 So we're still into public comment and 26 tribal comment, non-agenda items. Anybody on the 27 phone. 28 29 (No comments) 30 31 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Hearing nothing on the 32 phone, anybody in here that want to talk about besides 33 moose that we're going to get to. 34 35 (No comments) 36 37 CHAIRMAN GREEN: The public here says 38 they're here for moose, so we'll move on from that 39 agenda item and we'll get into the Fish Resource 40 Monitoring Program with Jarred Stone, OSM. You have 41 the floor, Jarred. 42 43 MR. STONE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 44 Members of the Council. Today -- well, before I start, 45 for the record my name is Jarred Stone. I'm a 46 fisheries biologist with the Office of Subsistence 47 Management. 48 49 And today I'll be providing a 50

Page 184 1 programmatic update on two programs that our office, 2 the Office of Subsistence Management, oversees. And 3 the first item will be a brief update on our Partners 4 for Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program, and then the 5 second update will be on the FRMP program, the 6 Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program. And eventually 7 at the end we'll get to discuss the priority 8 information needs for the 2020 notice of funding 9 opportunity. And this item will actually be an action 10 item. 11 12 So currently the Office of Subsistence 13 Management is seeking proposals for the Partners 14 Program to strengthen Alaska Native and rural 15 involvement in Federal subsistence management. The 16 Partners Program is a competitive grant that's directed 17 at providing funding for biologists, social scientists, 18 educator positions and Alaska Native and rural non- 19 profit organizations with the intent of increasing the 20 organizations ability to participate in Federal 21 subsistence management. In addition, the program 22 supports a variety of opportunities for local rural 23 students to connect with subsistence resources 24 monitoring and management through science camps and 25 paid internships. 26 27 The notice of funding opportunity has 28 been announced in the fall of 2018 on the Federal 29 Subsistence Management Program website, and also can be 30 found at grants-dot-gov. The deadline for proposals is 31 January 31st, 2019. Karen Hyer and myself are the 32 point people in our office for this program, and the 33 contact information can be found on the flyer that I've 34 put in the back here about our Partners Program. And, 35 additionally, if there are any interested people that 36 are wanting to learn more about this, Karen Hyer and 37 myself will be providing teleconferences throughout the 38 upcoming winter months to try to help possible new 39 partners learn the application process that we have for 40 becoming involved with our Partners Program. 41 42 Just little bit of background. 43 44 So right now we currently have six 45 partners that we are funding. That includes the 46 Bristol Bay Native Association, the Native Village of 47 Eyak, the Native Village of Napaimute, ONC out in 48 Bethel, and the Tanana Chiefs Conference in Fairbanks. 49 50

Page 185 1 So with that I guess I'd like to ask 2 you guys to think about if there are any future 3 potential partners maybe in your regions or your 4 communities, and if there are, please grab one of these 5 flyers and give it to them, and get them to think about 6 if they want to try to apply. And I urge you, too, to 7 reach out to both Karen Hyer and myself, and ask us 8 questions if you have any along the way. 9 10 So the second item that I was going to 11 talk about today is the Fisheries Resource Monitoring 12 Program update. And most of you have this one sheet 13 that I gave out yesterday right at the very end of the 14 day. And this just kind of highlights the projects 15 that have been funded since the inception of the FRMP 16 program. And on the back we have the draft priority 17 information needs. 18 19 And yesterday I've heard a lot of you 20 already speak about some of the concerns that you may 21 have regarding the fisheries in your neck of the woods. 22 And that's really, I think -- this is really an 23 important time for the Council to kind of reconcile 24 these thoughts and put them on paper today so that come 25 2020 when we put out the notice of funding opportunity 26 for the Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program, these 27 concerns will be essentially the direction that 28 investigators can take to possibly fund projects in 29 this region. And so it all begins with coming up with 30 these priority information needs. 31 32 And with that, I've got a little bit 33 more I'd like to say about the Fisheries Resource 34 Management Program. So the 2018 Fisheries Resource 35 Management plan was finalized back in May. And in your 36 region here, the Seward Peninsula Region, the one 37 project that was funded for the next four years was the 38 Unalakleet River weir, which we heard from Justin Leon 39 and Janet yesterday. And so that project has funding 40 until just about 2022. 41 42 So again the first step in this process 43 really begins with the Council, and we begin with that 44 with trying to identify these priority information 45 needs in each region. The priority information needs 46 are again concerns that you might have regarding 47 fisheries in your region, and they really begin to 48 provide sort of the framework for soliciting and 49 evaluating and selecting projects for funding through 50

Page 186 1 the monitoring program. 2 3 There are some research topics that 4 cannot be funded with the FRMP program, and those 5 include habitat protection, mitigation, restoration, 6 enhancement, hatchery propagation, restoration, 7 enhancement, and supplementation, contaminant 8 assessments. And so these activities are most 9 appropriately addressed by the responsible land 10 management and/or regulatory agency. In addition, 11 projects for which the primary objective is education 12 or outreach, such as science camps, technician 13 training, or intern programs are not eligible for 14 funding under the monitoring program. 15 16 And we also spoke with local land 17 managers, particularly we spoke with Letty and Nicole 18 that were here yesterday about information gaps that 19 they have found in this region. And the second 20 bulleted pin on the back of your sheet here was one 21 that they had mentioned and I had included for your 22 review. And these are -- this is simply just a 23 recommendation. You can choose to drop it or change 24 it. 25 26 So that's all I have for the FRMP 27 program. 28 29 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 30 31 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Jarred. 32 You know, this priority on the back, the reliable 33 estimates of Chinook salmon escapement in the 34 Unalakleet River drainage, you now, we already know 35 that the Chinook salmon is down in numbers, but we're 36 still counting then. I mean, if we know they're not 37 enough, then what are we doing to make sure there's 38 enough. And I seen this in Nome, and we've been 39 counting fish since the 90s, and it didn't grow the 40 population of fish. It's an expense, but it doesn't 41 produce anything other than the knowledge that there's 42 this many fish in the river. So I always had kind of 43 an issue with that. If we know there's not enough chum 44 salmon in Nome River, then why are we counting them? 45 We should be finding a way to increase that number. 46 47 I hear that this program doesn't do 48 rehab or enhancement or habitat, curing up bad river 49 systems or whatever, but you heard Jerry talking about 50

Page 187 1 what the situation is here and what he would like to 2 see. I'm curious, because these folks have a lot of 3 Federal lands around here. What can we do to -- 4 besides counting salmon, what can we do through this 5 program for their Chinook issue here? I mean, we've 6 lost all our kings up there, and I think it's due to 7 the same problem that he's pointed out to you in the 8 Bering Sea. 9 10 So I'd appreciate any kind of comments 11 you have. 12 13 Thank you. 14 15 MR. STONE: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and 16 through the Council. Jerry's words this morning and 17 Leland's words yesterday about the contamination out in 18 the oceans, those resonate strongly. Those are 19 concerns that are most likely impacting these 20 fisheries. And unfortunately, the way that the 21 resource monitoring program is structured, we just 22 cannot provide funding for those types of research. 23 And primarily that just keeps the government agencies 24 from overlapping and potentially crossing into areas 25 that other agencies have the responsibility to manage. 26 27 And so I don't know if that answers 28 your question, but -- yeah. 29 30 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 31 32 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks. One other. 33 You know, Tommy's been asking questions about the -- 34 I'm letting him go into that, but I've asked for a 35 combined effort between the Feds and the State to do a 36 migration study on our salmon in Norton Sound, but we 37 never seem to get anywhere. 38 39 Tommy. 40 41 MR. GRAY: You know, I really feel for 42 Unalakleet and their king issue. And it -- I struggle 43 when agencies come in and say, yep, I've got money, but 44 that's out of my expertise or my area. And I guess my 45 thoughts are let's get those people that have that 46 expertise in that area that covers those area into this 47 meeting. And it's pretty obvious we don't know who 48 those players are, but the system needs to make sure 49 that they get here. So when Jerry comes in and asks 50

Page 188 1 for something, there's somebody that can answer him. 2 Okay. So that's an issue. 3 4 I have sat at this table forever, and I 5 have screamed forever I want something done on silver 6 salmon in my river system. And nobody wants to 'fess 7 up and say, yep, I can do it. The comment I hear from 8 the Feds is that's a State stream and the State manages 9 it and get over it; we're not going to do anything. 10 And I keep saying that there's silver salmon going into 11 Federal lands, and there needs to be some studies done. 12 We need some help in our system. 13 14 And, you know, one thing that I really, 15 really struggle with is this attitude, wait and see. 16 Wait and see. I mean, give me a couple of kids from 17 college to go study the fish or something. I mean, do 18 something. This wait and see attitude, if we wait long 19 enough, 1,000 years, maybe the fish will go extinct or 20 they'll come back in lots of numbers. But I really 21 don't agree with this wait and see. 22 23 So I'm going to throw at you, we have 24 Federal lands in the Bendeleben Mountains. We have 25 silver salmon going into those Federal lands and 26 spawning. How can I get projects in those Federal 27 lands to study my silver salmon? You know, from the 28 time the fish show up in the springtime, the salmon 29 show up, the first things that show up is chums and 30 kings. Very first things. Nets in the ocean, chums 31 and kings. And people are taking those fish out in 32 Golovin. I mean, they're the very first ones to get. 33 Then they've got to hit White Mountain. Then they hit 34 Council boats. And, you know, we're all kind of lined 35 up as subsistence people trying to get our fair share, 36 and then the State steps in and says, oh, by the way, 37 we're going to shut down king salmon, what do you call 38 it, escapement goals. So now nobody has the obligation 39 to manage that fishery any more. Give me a break. You 40 know, we've got king salmon going in that river. 41 Somebody needs to -- those kinds are going to the 42 Federal lands. Silver salmon's going into the Federal 43 lands, and yet nobody wants to help us get off the 44 dime. The kings have been a dying issue for 40 years, 45 but we still have a handful of kings come in. 46 47 You heard Charlie Lee. He wants to 48 take fish out of Boston Creek and put them into another 49 creek, so he wants to go and take some of these fish 50

Page 189 1 and re-establish fish somewhere else when that fishery 2 doesn't have enough kings for itself. 3 4 So anyway, in long and short of it, how 5 can you help us. I don't care what kind of a study it 6 is, how can you help us on the Fish River get something 7 going on silvers and kings, and again this is in 8 Federal lands that they're spawning in. You know, the 9 lower part of that system is all State lands and State 10 managed, and we all acknowledge that. But these fish 11 don't know the difference between State and Federal 12 waters. And the State doesn't want to help us. This 13 wait and see attitude just sucks. I've been sitting 14 here for 30 years. The first counting tower went on my 15 personal property in the Council River, and I got 16 pissed off and kicked them off, because they were doing 17 nothing. And they went on corporation land, and they 18 still did nothing, so I kicked them out of there. And 19 they went to another corporation. 20 21 But, you know, again, we need some 22 help. And you heard it from Jerry, we need some help. 23 So, you know, in Jerry's case, he's got a lot of 24 Federal land around us. In my case, we've got to be a 25 little -- improvise a little bit and figure out how to 26 work together. 27 28 And this is another thing. 29 30 The State wants us to stand in line and 31 come parallel to them in all the regulations and stuff, 32 and yet when it comes to managing the resource, well, 33 that's the State's problem, that's the Feds' problem. 34 Let's work together. Let's get something done for our 35 people together. 36 37 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Than you, Tom. 38 39 So, I don't know if you have any 40 answers to that, but, excuse me, I was going to ask the 41 question. Tommy talks about experts in the fields that 42 we're discussing that could possibly help these runs. 43 Would that be something that could be done from the 44 Office of Subsistence Management by reaching out to 45 these groups or these experts to have them possibly 46 invited to a next meeting for discussions. 47 48 MR. STONE: Mr. Chair and through the 49 Council. Yeah, those are great recommendations. I 50

Page 190 1 agree with you, Tom. I believe that we could invite 2 these other agencies in so that they have a better 3 understanding of the concerns that we're talking about 4 today. 5 6 One thing I failed to mention earlier, 7 and you helped me kind of remember, Tom, is that our 8 funding opportunities for these projects have to have a 9 Federal nexus, meaning the project has to be within or 10 near Federal lands. And you had brought up some areas 11 that I'm not familiar with, Bendeleben and the Fish 12 River for silver and kings you had mentioned. And if 13 those areas have Federal lands, you know, your best 14 bet, your local experts are probably likely going to be 15 coming from the BLM or Park Service. And yesterday 16 Letty and Nicole, you know, might be some great 17 contacts for you to consider, just because they're 18 nearby and they're the local experts for the region. 19 20 If you, Mr. Gray, wanted to put 21 together a priority information need for the Bendeleben 22 area or for the Fish River, if there's a Federal nexus, 23 that's where it begins, right here and right now. We 24 identify concerns for either or both silver salmon or 25 for king salmon, and we draft up a priority information 26 need for this area, and then when the 2020 funding 27 opportunity comes out, interested researches that are 28 interested in researching fisheries in this region will 29 view this priority information need and put together a 30 project hopefully that identifies this concern of 31 yours. 32 33 MR GRAY: So, you know, let's take a 34 look at the fish that come into my system. The king 35 salmon, it's a nickel and dime deal. I mean, you've 36 got to be lucky to get kings. And the people in 37 Golovin that have the first nets out, they'll get a 38 handful of kings. And, boom, boom, boom, as the chain 39 goes on. So the next thing that comes in is chums. 40 And there's enough chums to address our subsistence 41 needs, but to do a commercial fishery, there's not a 42 real abundance of chums. Now, the chums feed the 43 silver salmon, and when the silvers come in, that's the 44 fish in my system that commercial fishing wants, is 45 silvers. And there's not enough -- I mean, we go from 46 zero kings basically to maybe 30 or 40,000, 50,000 47 chums, to maybe 10,000, 15,000 silvers. You're going 48 to run a commercial fishery off that? Give me a break. 49 And they're doing it. Fish and Game's attitude is -- I 50

Page 191 1 mean, even if we had 100,000 silvers, I don't think we 2 should be running a commercial fishery. And it's 3 happening. So this wait and see attitude is -- and the 4 system's attitude, how this system works, you know, we 5 can all say, well, the State has their rights, and we 6 have our rights and stuff, but there's a poor Native 7 guy, or white subsistence user sitting there saying, 8 why is it what it is? You know, for example, one time 9 we had not fish come in the river. Well, Fish and Game 10 got on the radio, and this is Monday, said, Thursday 11 we're going to shut down commer -- or we're going to 12 shut down subsistence fishing in the river system. So 13 what did everybody do? Tom Gray grabbed his seine and 14 went out and seined and got everything I needed. And 15 Thursday come around, okay, go ahead, shut it down; we 16 don't care. The whole river system did that. I mean, 17 the State learned a lesson, not to announce it prior. 18 19 Anyway, number 1, we need to learn to 20 work together. This is a resource that is -- 21 everybody's using from commercial fishing to 22 subsistence to whoever. We all need to work together. 23 There's bears eating, for crying out loud. We're 24 feeding a lot of different worlds. And if we don't 25 work together, we're not going to have anything. You 26 know, Elmer talks about you want to lose a resource, 27 fight over it; you're going to lose it. I've heard 28 that so many times from him, and he's right. I mean, 29 we have no more kings. 30 31 Anyway, I'm going to get off the soap 32 box and hopefully we can get something going in my area 33 in the Fish River, in the Bendeleben Mountains. 34 There's Federal lands. The Park is not going to do 35 anything in Federal lands, because they don't own 36 anything in there. It's going to have to be BLM or 37 somebody say, hey, come on, let's work together. 38 That's going to be the bottom line. 39 40 Let's work together. 41 42 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Tom. 43 44 Yeah, I was looking at the chart up 45 there, and looking at the Federal lands, and I see 46 Boston River and the headwaters is in there. A portion 47 of the Fish River is in there on the way up to that 48 Boston, because Boston runs into the Fish. The Agiapuk 49 River behind Brevig, (Indiscernible) River over at 50

Page 192 1 Davidson's Landing area, American River mouth area, 2 Kuzitrin head waters, Koyuk River. You've got the 3 Ungalik, Inglutalik, Unalakleet River, Shaktoolik 4 River, and there's some that are up there they didn't 5 even write down. 6 7 We need to -- maybe we should do some 8 head scratching here on a break or something and decide 9 what -- you know, what you're talking about. We did 10 put something in for Boston before and we didn't get 11 it. 12 13 MR. GRAY: It never went. 14 15 CHAIRMAN GREEN: It never went. 16 17 MR. GRAY: Yeah, it..... 18 19 CHAIRMAN GREEN: For what reason, I 20 don't understand, and maybe we need to find out. But 21 we do have Federal lands where those rivers are, and 22 I'm just wondering if we can't find some project up 23 there like on a coho project in the Boston, why it 24 wouldn't fly. I guess I need to understand why it 25 wouldn't, and nowhere to ask. But I just pointed out a 26 couple of the rivers that are in the Imuruk Basin area, 27 or actually four of them that run into the Imuruk 28 Basin. And there's Federal lands wrapped around those, 29 two. 30 31 Go ahead, Tommy. 32 33 MR. GRAY: And part of the reason I can 34 sit here and say there's silver salmon in Federal lands 35 in the Bendeleben Mountains is because Tim Smith flew 36 and tracked -- I don't want to call them collars, but 37 they put these units on fish, and those fish ended up 38 in Federal lands. And it was a State project that he 39 was doing it under. So, you know, and then we -- for 40 how many years we've had the system ignore. Say, Tom, 41 there's not enough lands there, we can't do anything. 42 Come on, guys, this is a resource that we need to 43 manage, and let's work together. Let's make it happen. 44 45 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Anything. 46 47 MR. KATCHATAG: Let's take into 48 consideration global warming, climate change, and all 49 that permafrost is melting wherever our fish spawn. 50

Page 193 1 What is coming out of that permafrost to affect our 2 fish, because there are some trout that we catch, that 3 I catch. When I cook, they smell real good when 4 they're cooking, but when they get done, they really 5 stink. What is coming of that permafrost to affect the 6 fish. How is it affecting. That's what we need to 7 find out. If we want our fish to survive, we've got to 8 know all, everything. Where they go, where they spawn, 9 what's happening in their spawning grounds. 10 11 So this is very important. 12 13 Thank you. 14 15 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Let's do a 10- 16 minute break, and then I'll show you what I was talking 17 about on the charts up there. Maybe that will -- food 18 for thought here. Ten minutes. We'll be back at -- 19 well, I'll just say 25 after. 20 21 (Off record) 22 23 (On record) 24 25 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Ron Kirk made it. So 26 we're coming back on record here after the break, which 27 is about six minutes longer than we planned. But there 28 was a lot of discussion about the list of priority 29 information needs. We'll come back to that. 30 31 What I think is important is we've got 32 some public here to talk about the moose hunting season 33 here, and then something else. I've got three blue 34 cards here from residents. Or two left. So I wanted 35 to ask them up to the table, and I'll start with Perry 36 Burres. He's got comments about moose or questions. 37 And when you need to talk, you just push the button, a 38 red light comes on. And when you're done, you undo it. 39 40 MR. BURRESS: Yeah, Board, I'd like to 41 address our moose hunt here. I'm not so much concerned 42 about the length of the season, but on the outer limits 43 of our game management unit, there is a lot of moose 44 guiding going on in the units that butt up to it. 45 There's a lot of guides -- there's six guides that fly 46 into that area and take a lot of moose that should be 47 migrating in my opinion to this area. Moose that 48 travel down the Chiroskey and South River, and a lot of 49 those moose that I used to see flying through these 50

Page 194 1 hills for 30 years going to the Yukon to work after 2 moose season, you'd see them out on these hills, and 3 they're not there any more, whether it be those guides 4 keeping them from making their migration route, or if 5 it's predators, and I'm not seeing predators in those 6 hills when I'm flying through there, and it's always 7 low level flying unless the weather's bad. And I'm 8 concerned that that has a lot of affect on what we see 9 here in our unit in the Unalakleet drainage. That's my 10 concern, is if some of that's Federal land, if there's 11 anything that we can do to stop some of that flying in 12 there and taking those moose that should be coming 13 here. 14 15 That's all I've got to say on that. 16 17 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Any Council 18 have comments or questions with Perry here. 19 20 Oh, go ahead, Boop. 21 22 MR. OYOUMICK: I wonder if we could do 23 something like the Northwest people did in Arctic, like 24 by Kotzebue where they have a no fly zone, where you 25 don't allow guides. And, you know, you've just got to 26 even the playing field. Those guys can fly in there 27 and look and spot the moose and get on the radio and 28 tell the guy on the ground. He didn't fly, he already 29 came there last week, so he met the requirement of 24 30 hours or whatever it is that he has to stay on the 31 ground. And I just wondered if we could -- we got 32 something like that that they did in close to Kotzebue, 33 in that area. 34 35 Thank you. 36 37 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Just in answer to that 38 one, on that Unit 23 caribou we did work with Arctic 39 Slope, we worked with Northwest and Western Interior as 40 the Seward RAC, because we use the same resource, we 41 worked with them on closures on Federal lands. It's 42 since then been loosened up a little bit, but there's 43 still that control. 44 45 On 22A, in the last go around we had, 46 and the debate was taken up at the Federal Subsistence 47 Board meeting here, the last one that I went to for the 48 Chairmen's meeting. We debated that 22A. The State 49 and the guides wanted to open up to all residents of 50

Page 195 1 the State of Alaska. And what 22A was, was it was 2 closed down to Federally-recognized members of 3 Unalakleet Village and Shaktoolik Village. So rather 4 than open it up to everybody in the State of Alaska 5 residents, it got only opened up to the residents of 6 all of Unit 22. It was a step up to the next level. 7 So we've done something on Federal lands already. 8 9 I think it takes something from the 10 State and this body could sponsor a proposal to the 11 State Board of Game, but we'd have -- go ahead. 12 13 Tommy's got a comment. 14 15 MR. GRAY: I guess the first thing I'm 16 a little bit curious about is you've got six guides 17 that are hunting moose, is it? 18 19 MR. BURRESS: Yeah, moose and bear. 20 21 MR. GRAY: Okay. And are they hunting 22 in Unit 22A? 23 24 MR. BURRESS: They're hunting in -- 25 well, on the Golsovia, which is 22A, the headwaters of 26 that. 27 28 MR. GRAY: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. S I do 29 not recall Federal lands being shut down to outsiders 30 so to speak in 22A, and maybe I'm wrong, but that would 31 be a step to protect your people in this region is 32 close it to non-Federally-qualified whatever they call 33 that. And that would just leave whoever's sitting in 34 this region, like Louis said, those people open. 35 36 The concern that I have is you've got a 37 couple things going for you. Number 1 is you just came 38 out of a closure. You went into a five-year moratorium 39 or whatever to protect the moose. And I can't vision 40 that moose population coming back and healing good 41 enough at this point to open it up to guiding. I mean, 42 in the rest of the guiding world, and I'm a guide, all 43 the moose hunting's getting shut down. And you guys 44 shut down this river system to yourselves for a bunch 45 of years, so you've got a good stand in saying, why are 46 guides guiding in my area for moose. You know, that's 47 a very good situation you're in. 48 49 So first off, the first thing I would 50

Page 196 1 want to know is non-Federally-qualified people, can 2 they hunt in here? Can they hunt in Unit 22A? And I 3 see somebody shaking his head no. 4 5 So let's get an answer. 6 7 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Bruce. Oh, Leland. 8 9 MR. OYOUMICK: Yeah, I'd like to 10 initiate this, because we're under a quota system. We 11 can only get 34 and we're limited by that fact. And if 12 that gets lifted, then maybe we could think about them 13 folks coming in, but I sure don't want them, because 14 they get all the big bulls, fine; they take the trophy 15 home, fine, but us folks, we went after the meat for 16 what we could eat, and to satisfy our needs as far as 17 food. 18 19 Thank you. 20 21 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Yeah. So, Tommy, we 22 did take up that 22A, so it's only opened to residents 23 qualified, Federally-qualified residents of all of Unit 24 22. The State..... 25 26 MR. GRAY: I thought that was just..... 27 28 CHAIRMAN GREEN: No. 29 30 MR. GRAY: I thought that was just down 31 around Stebbins/St. Michael. 32 33 CHAIRMAN GREEN: No, it was about moose 34 in 22A, and it was Shaktoolik and Unalakleet that were 35 -- initially were the only ones that could take. And 36 then the State wanted to step it up and open it to all 37 residents of Alaska, and we argued it to the point 38 where it's only open to the residents of 22, Federally- 39 qualified. And so that's done. 40 41 What I think the problem is, and we 42 need to talk about it, and I think Bruce might have the 43 answer, or have comments on it, is that State lands is 44 where these folks are operating out of. Bruce. 45 46 MR. SEPPI: Good morning. Bruce Seppi 47 with BLM, Anchorage field office. 48 49 Yes, you're correct. 22A is closed to 50

Page 197 1 all non-qualified subsistence users, but the catch is 2 there's a lot of selected Federal lands up the Golsovia 3 which they can hunt on. And also that's right on the 4 border of 21E, upper Anvik, which those guides are 5 allowed to come into there, and there able to come over 6 onto that selected land in the upper Golsovia, so 7 actually it's been a headache for us, but we don't have 8 a reason, a good justification for denying those 9 permits. So there is a guide and outfitter up in what 10 they call 22A remainder that we watch closely, but we 11 don't have justification for saying no there, because 12 it's selected lands. 13 14 CHAIRMAN GREEN: That would be State 15 selected. 16 17 MR. SEPPI: I believe so, yeah, but 18 they're selected, and selected lands don't qualify 19 under ANILCA, so we can't close it. 20 21 MR. GRAY: But can't you -- they have 22 to have a special rec permit to operate. 23 24 MR. SEPPI: Yes. 25 26 MR. GRAY: And can't you limit -- I 27 have a special rec permit to operate on Federal lands 28 in my area, and through that permit can't you say in 29 the Unalakleet drainage there will be no moose taken, 30 and to justify -- now, let me finish. To justify this 31 is they're just coming out of a moratorium of not moose 32 hunting in their own system. They worked hard to get 33 where they're at, and we need to recognize and protect 34 that. 35 36 MR. SEPPI: Absolutely. Bruce Seppi 37 again, BLM. And absolutely, but that moratorium in 38 that 22A, FM2201 hunt is just in the Unalakleet River 39 drainage. It doesn't include that farther south stuff 40 in 22A up the Golsovia. And so the problem is, that's 41 a separate area. In fact, there were proposals put in 42 by two guides and outfitters that work out of 43 Unalakleet to open that to non-qualified subsistence, 44 and they were denied within the last year here, because 45 the Subsistence Board recognized, yeah, moose are 46 increasing in this unit, but slowly and, you know, it's 47 making a corner. And if they threw the doors open to 48 that southern 22A, guides would flood into there, and 49 we wouldn't have justification to stop it, and it would 50

Page 198 1 just take away all the ground that's been gained on the 2 population here. 3 4 There's also an argument that moose 5 from 22A south, that remainder area, are a different 6 population and everybody who's down there is saying 7 there's tons of moose down here; why is 22A closed, you 8 know. And they also argue that people from Unalakleet 9 don't make it down there. They don't hunt way down 10 there. That's an argument that maybe you guys could 11 answer better than I, but we recognize that problem, 12 but we don't have a mechanism to shut that down. We 13 don't, because it's selected lands. It's selected Fed 14 rom (ph). 15 16 So it's separate than the Unalakleet 17 hunt, this Unalakleet drainage hunt. 18 19 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Bruce. 20 21 Ron. 22 23 MR. KIRK: When you talk about separate 24 lands on 22A, you're talking from Golsovia down. Are 25 you talking about lands that are controlled by Stebbins 26 and St. Michael area or what. 27 28 MR. SEPPI: Well, they're Federal 29 lands, but, yeah, Stebbins and St. Michaels would be 30 the folks that would be probably hunting there, or 31 they're a lot closer to it, so likely they'd be coming 32 over to there. But they're Federal lands, they're 33 managed by BLM, but they're selected by the State, and 34 so these rules of ANILCA don't apply in those selected 35 lands. So even if you put in a proposal, you can't 36 close it to non-qualified subsistence user. 37 38 MR. KIRK: Yeah, I was going to ask 39 about a proposal, but you already answered that, so 40 there's way I can..... 41 42 MR. SEPPI: Yeah. 43 44 MR. KIRK: .....neither village can 45 submit a proposal to close it. 46 47 MR. BURRESS: Under State process you 48 could. 49 50

Page 199 1 MR. SEPPI: Yeah, you would have to be 2 -- yes, it would have to be through the State process. 3 4 MR. KIRK: So we can submit a proposal 5 through the State. 6 7 MR. SEPPI: Yes. And I don't know how 8 far you'll get on that, but, yes, that would be the way 9 to do it. There are Federal lands that are what we 10 call unencumbered or BLM-managed lands that aren't 11 selected, but that upper Golsovia is all selected by 12 the State, and I think that's the area you guys are 13 talking about, right. 14 15 MR. BURRESS: Yeah, and, you know, some 16 of that guiding is going on in the upper end. 17 18 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Mic, because there's 19 other people, about 23 people online. 20 21 MR. BURRESS: Some of the other areas 22 that's being affected by those guides that affect 23 Unalakleet is that upper Anvik River and the Yellow 24 River, and they all -- all the headwaters come together 25 in one spot, and those moose are up there during the 26 migration, and if they're getting stopped from coming 27 over the small hills up there and coming into here, 28 that's affecting us and we need to do something about 29 that. 30 31 MR. SEPPI: Yes. Bruce Seppi again 32 with BLM. 33 34 He's exactly right, and that is right 35 on the border of the other game management unit, 21E, 36 and BLM permits I believe six guides and outfitters 37 through a special recreation permit in 21E, including 38 the upper Anvik, and that's -- you know, those moose 39 are likely coming over the watershed there, the 40 watershed divide and coming into the Unalakleet. When 41 you ask Fish and Game, they don't have really solid 42 information on where those moose are coming from and 43 whether those moose are affecting the increase in 44 Unalakleet drainage moose in 22A, but biologically they 45 probably are, but we don't have anything to say 46 absolutely they are. There's more moose in 21E in the 47 Yukon River bottoms, the Innoko bottoms than there is 48 in 22A, but I think a lot of those moose are coming 49 over. And so that's something that Fish and Game 50

Page 200 1 doesn't have a really hard information on. And if Fish 2 and Game is on line, they can speak to that. 3 4 CHAIRMAN GREEN: ADF&G, any comments. 5 6 (No comments) 7 8 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. This is Louis 9 again. So that Anvik or those headwaters where that 10 range where there's a pass there where they're going 11 back and forth, are they -- is there any Federal lands 12 involved there besides on our side so to speak. 13 14 MR. SEPPI: Bruce Seppi, BLM. 15 16 Absolutely there are, but what I'm 17 getting at is that's a different management unit, it's 18 21E. It's right on the border with 22A, and so we 19 permit SRPs in there. In fact, there's a lot more 20 demand. There's always -- there's several more asking 21 to come in there, and we're really not wanting to put 22 more guides and outfitters in that area, simply because 23 it's -- they're coming to us and complaining they're 24 running into one another, and they're all wanting to 25 land on the same ridge tops and all that. And like, 26 okay, but that's -- you know, we can't tell people 27 where to have their outfits and how to avoid one 28 another. They have to really work that out themselves. 29 And so we need a mechanism, we need a justification to 30 say no to people, and right now we don't have that. 31 32 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I'm sad for those 33 fellows that can't land at the same spot in a 34 coordinated effort. I flew with 49 other planes in 35 Togiak herring fishery as a spotter pilot down there, 36 and we never had any issues, because we work together. 37 38 But what I was getting at was we have 39 this FRMP -- or I can't get that acronym right. 40 41 How about a collaring project. 42 43 MR. SEPPI: Bruce Seppi, BLM. 44 45 There has been -- 21E has had a 46 collaring project, the Innoko Bottoms. It finished in 47 2015 or '16. There's a report that I can provide. I 48 don't have it here, but that I can provide. 49 50

Page 201 1 And actually we're cooperating with 2 Fish and Game out of McGrath to do a GSPE in 21E this 3 winter. BLM Anchorage field office is. But there's 4 some of the much higher moose densities in that area. 5 The last time we did it, there was like two moose per 6 square mile. So there's much more moose down there, 7 and without a doubt, they move this way, whether they 8 flood into the Unalakleet River drainage, I can't say 9 for sure, but, you know, my gut feeling is they likely 10 do. 11 12 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Yeah. Thanks for 13 that, Bruce. You know, we're sitting up there 14 listening to the State talk about 22D and 22D 15 remainder, and 22E, saying that the moose population 16 goes back and forth any given year. So I don't know if 17 they based that on any kind of a survey with collars or 18 what, but it would seem to me that we could probably -- 19 that we might be able to ask for funds for that kind of 20 a project on 22A where we collar some moose and then 21 see what they do. 22 23 MR. SEPPI: Yeah. There is some 24 information in that 21E moose collaring project that, 25 you know, agencies spent a ton of money on to know how 26 moose move, and I don't -- off the top of my head, I 27 don't recall whether they caught moose coming over this 28 way, but that's something that would have to be brought 29 forward. 30 31 MR. GRAY: Louis. 32 33 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Tommy. 34 35 MR. GRAY: So I sit here as a 36 Subsistence Board RAC member. And I'm here because of 37 subsistence. And I'm a guide, too, and obviously, you 38 know -- but I'm sitting here wondering what happened to 39 subsistence as priority. And why is commercial guiding 40 taking precedence or taking away from subsistence 41 issues, you know. And I sympathize and I originally 42 got on this Board representing guides. I sympathize 43 with guides, but I'll tell you what, when I go home and 44 I look at my freezers, I'm a subsistence user, I'm not 45 a guide. And I feel for these people when somebody 46 gets up in front of us and says, well, the guiding 47 world's established and they're in place, and I'm 48 sorry, your subsistence takes the back seat in this 49 case. How do we get to the point that we can sit down 50

Page 202 1 and re-evaluate this and put subsistence back where it 2 needs to be? 3 4 MR. SEPPI: Bruce Seppi with BLM. 5 6 Mr. Gray and Chair Mr. Green, that's 7 not an easy question to answer. And the problem with 8 this is that there's a lot of moose in 21E, and not so 9 many moose in the Unalakleet drainage in 22A, and they 10 border one another. And so we're not able to close 11 21E, because there's a lot of moose down there, and 12 subsistence is being met. 22A is closed to non- 13 qualified subsistence users, but you've got the two 14 problems of moose moving between the two units and that 15 selected land over there that doesn't qualify under 16 ANILCA. So there's got to be an answer here about -- I 17 don't have the answer right here to tell you, about how 18 moose move between the two units and having subsistence 19 be a priority. 20 21 MR. GRAY: And, you know, I'm just 22 thinking out loud I guess, is these moose obviously 23 move for a reason at a certain time of year, and 24 possibly during a certain time of year when these 25 animals are moving, there's no guiding. And after the 26 fact, after they have moved, then guiding steps in. 27 Maybe there's a process of studying when this move 28 happens. You know, you look at Koyuk River and they 29 used to have a November hunt, and I don't know if they 30 still do, but that's after the subsistence users have 31 taken advantage of the river system, then the outsiders 32 get to come in and have a hunt. You know, I'm just 33 trying to think of something that's going to work for 34 our people, and yet work for the guiding world. And 35 maybe, you know, doing a November hunt isn't a perfect 36 situation for guiding, but at least they've still got 37 the foot in the door. So, I don't know. I'm just 38 trying to think out loud I guess. 39 40 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So that basically 41 presents the issue to the public as far as looking into 42 a proposal. It's going to be a tough to even get 43 through the Board of Game. I don't know that we would 44 be able to do anything there. We've got no say over 45 the State lands is what I'm getting at. We don't have 46 that. 47 48 MR GRAY: But, Louis..... 49 50

Page 203 1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Go ahead. 2 3 MR. GRAY: Louis, you've got to 4 remember, we're dealing with Federal lands, and it 5 sounds like there's lots of Federal lands in that arena 6 where they're at. And so it's the Federal Board that 7 we have to convince, yeah, let's open it up three weeks 8 later, two weeks later, whatever, to guides and let 9 that migration happen. 10 11 It's kind of like the caribou, you 12 know. Everybody says, don't shot the first ones that 13 come down the river. Let the front ones get by and the 14 rest of them will come. You know, maybe that's the 15 answer to thing. I don't know. But the thing that 16 these guys, Perry and them, have going is it's Federal 17 lands so whether the State likes it or not, it's the 18 Federal people that he's got to convince. 19 20 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Would that be Unit 21 21 people in that region. 22 23 MR. SEPPI: 21E, yeah. 24 25 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Yeah, they would have 26 to be convinced to -- the RAC over there would have to 27 be convinced to do something. The only other thing is 28 a State-level proposal, but it doesn't sound like it 29 would be something that would really take root. So I 30 don't have any answers either. 31 32 Bruce. 33 34 MR. SEPPI: Bruce Seppi, BLM. 35 36 But we do permit guides and outfitters, 37 and we have more pressure to have more guides an 38 outfitters come into there, and so we need 39 justification to say no to people. And w do -- 40 subsistence has a priority, and so, you know, it's my 41 responsibility to look at every SRP that comes through 42 and say, how does this affect subsistence. And when 43 they come into 21E, I can't say that there's not enough 44 moose over there, because there's two moose per square 45 mile. That's actually some pretty high densities, and 46 it's not an issue. But if I was able to combine that 47 with 22A and say, there's issues over here -- as you'll 48 remember when those proposals came through, those 49 guides and outfitters that put in those proposals said 50

Page 204 1 there's tons of moose down there. Unalakleet people 2 don't make it all the way down there, you know. These 3 moose are more likely 21E moose than they are 22A, and 4 so there's no reason that area should be closed along 5 with the Unalakleet watershed. But nobody has some 6 hard information to show that. And so luckily the 7 Subsistence Board agreed and they didn't want to affect 8 22A, so they said, no, to that, to opening that. But 9 my hunch is that that will come up again and again, 10 and, you know, as long as moose populations stay 11 healthy in 21E, that that will come up again, and there 12 will be more pressure to let more people into there. 13 14 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Just a little 15 bit more and we're going to move on to the next. 16 17 Yeah. 18 19 Go ahead, Tommy. 20 21 MR. GRAY: I was sitting here thinking, 22 you know, it's a little bit ironic. Let's look at the 23 king salmon. And the king salmon first get beat up by 24 the trawlers down south, and then they come to this are 25 and the State gets involved in a fishery at times. 26 Then they get in the river and the subsistence user 27 finally gets a whack at it. 28 29 You know, we're kind of in that same 30 arena with these moose. And the moose, even though 31 they're from 22E, they're still Unalakleet's moose, 32 too, because they migrate. The caribou migrate into 22 33 from 23. They're our caribou, too. Same thing. So 34 these folks need to have a say, even though they summer 35 in a certain area, they winter in another area. So we 36 need to not draw lines in the sand on that resource so 37 to speak, and manage it as a whole. 38 39 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So, Perry, I guess the 40 only avenue is whoever's managing 22E and it sounds 41 like a State land, besides the Feds. There's Federal 42 land there, but it seems to be that it's -- we're 43 giving out -- well, wait a minute. We're giving out 44 Federal permits to guides. 45 46 MR. SEPPI: Yeah. Like I've said 47 before -- Bruce Seppi with BLM. 48 49 Like I said before, you know, we're the 50

Page 205 1 agency permitting the special recreation permits both 2 in E and there's one up in 22A on selected lands, and 3 so I can't come up with a solid answer right now, but 4 if we work with Fish and Game to determine how moose 5 were moving between the two subunits and we had a solid 6 reason to say guide and outfitter use in 22A is 7 affecting the whole unit, we could deny them, we could 8 deny their SRPs. 9 10 CHAIRMAN GREEN: You have to have data, 11 correct. 12 13 MR. SEPPI: We have to have a solid 14 reason. And the way things are right now, if we start 15 kicking sporthunters out of areas, it gets the 16 attention of now the Department of Interior, so we'd 17 have to have some solid reasons. 18 19 CHAIRMAN GREEN: How many did you say 20 were issued in 22E? There's one in 22A. 21 22 MR. SEPPI: There's one. But it's 21E 23 that's the -- and there are six guides and outfitters 24 in that unit, including several up in the upper Anvik 25 that operate in that area. 26 27 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Leland. 28 29 MR. OYOUMICK: Leland here. How many 30 of them -- where do they guide out of? I mean, like if 31 they've got to fly there, which airport do they come 32 out of? 33 34 MR. SEPPI: Some are of Bethel. They 35 have camps, they establish camps, and that's mainly 36 what BLM is permitting is to have them have that remote 37 camp. But some of the operators are out of Bethel, 38 some -- you know, they're not from this region and 39 they're coming into this region just simply because 40 moose hunting is so good in that 21E, upper Anvik, 41 Innoko Bottoms area is what attracts them. So they're 42 not operating out of any particular village, although 43 there are some operating out of Unalakleet when that 44 season goes on. They also hunt bears in the spring, 45 too. They're not coming from any one place. It's many 46 different places and to establish camps to hunt out of. 47 48 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Council, any 49 further comments or concerns Perry's brought to the 50

Page 206 1 table. 2 3 (No comments) 4 5 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Well, you've heard it 6 all. You've got the biologist right there talking to 7 you, letting you know what the situation is up there. 8 9 I'm going to go ahead and thank you for 10 bringing your case to the table there, Perry. 11 12 MR. BURRESS: Thanks, Louis and the 13 Board. That's all I've got. 14 15 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you. 16 17 So we have Albert Saccheus. 18 19 MR. SACCHEUS: Albert Saccheus. Thank 20 you for allowing me to speak. Perry pretty much 21 covered what my concerns were, but I'd like to also add 22 to what he said about the migrating moose. 23 24 This year I believe -- well, since I've 25 been here, there is no moose been caught in Butcher 26 Slough and only one up in South River Hills there, and 27 usually we get quite a bit, three or four last year in 28 Butcher Slough alone, and there was a few caught last 29 year in the hills. But this year there hasn't been 30 any. 31 32 Another concern I have is with the 33 guides. You know, they're all trophy hunters, and all 34 they're required to do is bring their moose -- or their 35 meat in from the field, and they had a lot that they 36 gave a lot of their meat away. And they're going 37 around asking two or three times if you want some meat 38 from them. I mean, they gave it to somebody local 39 here, but, you know, I'd like to see that they be 40 required to, once they harvest it, get it back to -- 41 get it out of the field and bring it home, not just 42 come back and give it away to anybody who wants it. I 43 know we as a people, we share our foot, what we catch, 44 and, you know, we give to elders and it's part of our 45 culture. And when I was growing up, I got severely 46 disciplined by my dad for wasting food or animals. 47 48 And it -- I'd just like to see that 49 they harvest their food, bring it in from the field and 50

Page 207 1 take it home, because there was some -- an example that 2 these people got some moose meat from them, and they 3 sealed it up, got it all packed, and they were going to 4 put their meat in the freezer, and they saw worms 5 crawling around in the meat, so they had to throw it 6 all away. And, you know, for them to keep it out in 7 the field long enough to have growing maggots, you 8 know, that's too long. I mean, if they catch it, they 9 should have a certain amount of time to bring it in and 10 disburse it or take it home, whatever. 11 12 But like Perry said, they migrate I 13 guess, you know. I'm pretty sure they migrate, because 14 most all the moose was caught way up further upriver on 15 Chiroskey and above there, and even down below there, 16 so it's -- there was nothing caught, only one moose 17 this year I know of that was caught off the South River 18 and Butcher Slough, so, you know, I don't know -- I 19 know that the guides are required to bring it in from 20 the field, but what they do with it, you know, who 21 knows. I mean, they might even be able to throw it 22 away or whatever. And if we did that with subsistence, 23 we'd get in trouble. We'd go have to pay a fine. You 24 know, the State would jump in real quick and give us a 25 ticket or whatever, but when these guides come, all 26 they're required is to bring it in from the field, 27 that's it. 28 29 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Tommy's got a comment 30 or question. 31 32 MR. GRAY: So both you and Perry, I 33 don't want to put Bruce on the spot, but I think he 34 needs to be put on the spot, because they're his 35 permits. And he's the one that is kind of responsible 36 I want to say for allowing this to happen. His 37 organization. And when you go to him, one thing that I 38 would really urge you guys to -- one language I would 39 have you use is this moose population is utilized not 40 only by 21E, but it's used by 22A, and it should be 41 managed accordingly. Our people are using that. So 42 when you talk about non-Federally-qualified users, 43 which is something that you'll probably come back to 44 this Board with some day, hopefully it has some meaning 45 in the resource that they want to say is in 22E, but in 46 reality it's in 22A also. So two different peoples, so 47 to speak, are involved in this. 22E is what that unit 48 is saying, yep, there's too many moose. And 22A is 49 saying, there's not enough moose, and there's a 50

Page 208 1 migration happening. 2 3 But Bruce is the one again that manages 4 these permits. I have a permit from these guys to run 5 my guiding operation, and, you know, these permits can 6 have stipulations, how many animals can be taken, times 7 of year. There's all kinds of stuff they can put in as 8 stipulations. And I would pin them on that. Find out 9 what's doable and what works for you guys and what 10 doesn't. So just because you raise a question doesn't 11 mean it's going to happen. Well, again, something that 12 leaves a bad taste in my mouth is stipulations, because 13 BLM can dictate what I can and can't do as an operator 14 on Federal lands. 15 16 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Bruce, you've got..... 17 18 MR. SEPPI: Bruce Seppi with BLM. 19 20 Two things. If people are turning in 21 meat that is unfit for consumption, that's wanton waste 22 even if they give it away to you. That's wanton waste, 23 and so you should document that and call Fish and Game 24 or the troopers, because that's illegal. 25 26 Secondly, Mr, Gray has brought on about 27 we're issuing permits and we're affecting the hunt here 28 in 22A. Just by chance, BLM is doing the Bering 29 Sea/Western Interior land use plan, and that is a 30 process to limit guides and outfitters in areas. And 31 even though the Department of Interior has given us an 32 accelerated date to get this done, which is this spring 33 it has to be out the door and done, our field manager 34 will be on the line here this afternoon for agency 35 reports, talking about Bering Sea/Western Interior, and 36 I would hope someone on the committee here would bring 37 up this issue about the number of guides and outfitters 38 in 22E and how it affects your region, 22A. 39 40 MR. OYOUMICK: Leland here. Is there a 41 maximum amount in permits that you issue per year, or 42 is that -- you can issue as many as you -- they apply 43 for? 44 45 MR. SEPPI: There isn't limit on them, 46 but we have to have a justification, and that's usually 47 subsistence. You know, for instance, if the moose 48 population was really low in 21E and I have all these 49 outfitters coming in and say they want to hunt -- or 50

Page 209 1 they want to set up camps and bring outside hunters in, 2 we'll allow them to have a camp, but if the moose hunt 3 is closed, if there's a Federal, you know, non- 4 qualified subsistence user, they can't hunt moose. 5 They can hunt bears and that sort of thing. But that's 6 the only thing. We don't manage, you know, game 7 populations, but out SRPs are for use of Federal public 8 lands, which we kind of have a high bar to say no to 9 people. And so, you know, if we allowed so many guides 10 and outfitters into an area, they were running into 11 each other and, you know, everybody likes to have a 12 hunt with complete solitude, but, you know, that's not 13 the way it works sometimes. And so they complain to us 14 that they're seeing other guides and outfitters, but, 15 you know, they're going to have to work that out 16 themselves. 17 18 So to answer your question is, no, 19 there is no limit, and a land use plan is the only way 20 to say, we're going to limit the number of guides and 21 outfitters in any given unit for various reasons. 22 23 MR. OYOUMICK: Also do you folks have a 24 preference as to who you give it to, or just anybody 25 can do it? 26 27 MR. SEPPI: Well, we can't, you know, 28 pick and choose. They have to come and give us a 29 proposal to say they want to guide and -- have a guide 30 and outfitter thing going on. The main thing is if 31 they've got any pending legal problems, you know, if 32 they've had game violations with the State and that 33 sort of thing, we certainly can deny them for that 34 reason. But if they're clean in their guiding 35 operations and other areas, or are good -- if we don't 36 have justification to turn them down, we have to permit 37 them. And, you know, like I said before, we permit 38 them to use public lands to have a hunting camp, but 39 they have to follow all State game regs. We can tell 40 them that, you know. We can give them a permit, but if 41 the area is closed, they're not going to be able to 42 hunt moose or whatever they're after, bears or whatever 43 they're after. So we're kind of limited, and we have 44 to have a solid reason to deny somebody. 45 46 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Elmer. 47 48 MR. SEETOT: Elmer Seetot, Brevig 49 Mission. 50

Page 210 1 I'm not really too sure how many of you 2 read the Nome Nugget, but Shishmaref, in and around 3 Shishmaref, they ban all guided hunts, because some of 4 their local residents got caught, you know, doing this 5 and that with the guides up there, so that's I think 6 one area for consideration is banning guided hunts in 7 and around certain areas. I know that Shishmaref is 8 encompassed by the Bering Land Bridge system, so I 9 think that they went through the National Park Service 10 for that. 11 12 Thank you. 13 14 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks, Elmer. 15 Anybody else on the Council have any comments or 16 questions, concerns. 17 18 (No comments) 19 20 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Carl. 21 22 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you. Carl Johnson, 23 Office of Subsistence Management. 24 25 Albert, thank you for coming and 26 joining us today and testifying. I was just curious. 27 One of the things this Council wanted to talk about was 28 possibly submitting proposals to change the fall moose 29 season. And right now the dates aren't good, because 30 it's been too warm, and the moose aren't, you know, 31 coming into the area for hunting. And I'm just 32 wondering if you had any thoughts about that, and have 33 you had any dates you think might work better for the 34 hunt given what the climate has been like lately. 35 36 Thank you. 37 38 MR. SACCHEUS: Well, you know, I'd like 39 to have the openings coincide with the other areas, 40 like up in the Koyuk August 1st they open up. And a 41 lot of time during that time we're going upriver for 42 subsistence fishing, n we come across a moose that, you 43 know, we're out there to go get some fish, but we come 44 across moose that are in the river, and we can't shoot 45 them. We've got to wait another two weeks or so 46 before. But that's the time we're going up and getting 47 fish for subsistence, and we do come across those moose 48 during that time. I mean, you know, somebody's told me 49 that they are wanting to open it for -- because they -- 50

Page 211 1 when they come to the river during mating season or 2 whatever, later on in the season, but, sure, they're 3 there a lot more in late fall, but we do come across 4 them like when we go up, go get some salmon for 5 subsistence. 6 7 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Thank you. 8 Albert, if you have no more to go on, I'd like to have 9 the next person come up. But we really appreciate you 10 coming up and talking. You brought a whole 11 another..... 12 13 MR. SACCHEUS: Thank you. 14 15 CHAIRMAN GREEN: You brought a whole 16 another level in there. Thank you. 17 18 We've got Frances Degnan. 19 20 MS. DEGNAN: Thank you for this time. 21 I read your meeting materials last night, and I saw 22 where on the Yukon you'll be considering those 23 regulations. And I noted that subsistence closures for 24 taking of fish have been on -- to be eased, and that 25 brings me to thinking about our own river in our own 26 region, and what pressures are being placed on us as 27 time goes on. 28 29 We have commercial fishing in the 30 region, and that's wonderful, but it is limited entry 31 permits. So we're dealing with a resource that has 32 sustained our culture here in the Norton Sound from the 33 time that the creator placed us here. And it is our 34 duty to ensure that those living resources continue to 35 go on. 36 37 And when Doug brought up the issue of 38 climate change, it is real. And the weather has been 39 very wet and has not been conducive to putting up our 40 traditional style salmon for our subsistence use. So 41 it's been wet. And when it's dry, the fish -- it's 42 closure, although, you know, the managing agencies say 43 we will watch the weather and we will allow you to take 44 your fish. I object to that, because it's not 45 subsistence related. When you have traditional 46 culturally-related subsistence, there is no closed 47 period. And the people who rely on food on the table, 48 who have no other jobs in this low economy area, food 49 is important, and you only take a small amount of the 50

Page 212 1 returning resource when the weather is good, and then 2 you don't take more. You're done. So in terms of our 3 Norton Sound area, I really believe that we should not 4 have subsistence fishery closures at any time either by 5 the State -- by the State-operated system, because it 6 is food on the table. And with the warming of the 7 waters, and more what you call toxicity coming into 8 affecting the resource, we need to keep our people fed. 9 And our traditional foods, this is according to our 10 elders' reason is that the foods that you were raised 11 on when you're an infant is the most healthful food you 12 can have. When you are sick you go back to the place 13 of your birth, drink the water, your natal waters, and 14 eat the foods of your ancestors. 15 16 So rather than limiting the people who 17 do not have work, the subsistence users, limiting them 18 to certain times because of the commercial fishery, I 19 think it is very wrong. And as I've been born, raised, 20 and lived here all my life, and the first moose I saw 21 was in 1949, and it was in the summer, and it was at 22 Klikitarik, so that's when the first moose came in, and 23 I saw it. And moose from Mike and Charlie is like 24 everything else, but I'm concerned about any 25 subsistence activity that our villages depend on for 26 food on the table, that there be no closed periods. 27 You get them at the appropriate time, because when the 28 subsistence fishery is opened, that's when you have (in 29 Native language). They're ready to spawn, and that's 30 not a good -- although some prefer to have that, but to 31 have good quality food for the person who lives here. 32 33 And in this region there is a coastal 34 management plan approved by the Federal government, and 35 by the State. The State rejects the Coastal Management 36 Program, but the Federal government still goes by it. 37 And from the residents in the local region, subsistence 38 is the highest priority use of any resource that we 39 have, and basically it's for life. 40 41 And I thank you very much for your 42 service. 43 44 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Frances, 45 and we thank you for your service, because you were 46 here before we were. I think you served with this man. 47 He said he's been there since day one. 48 49 Anybody have any comments or questions 50

Page 213 1 for Frances. 2 3 (No comments) 4 5 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I do like to make a 6 comment about what she said on no closures for 7 subsistence. I was fortunate enough to be fishing in 8 the area there in Nome that I was able to fish every 9 day that I wanted to fish and then I pick and choose 10 because of the weather and how much I was going to take 11 to del with, so I share your concern there about the 12 idea that subsistence is a life, and that it should be 13 important enough for managers to realize that that's 14 it. But they tend to fall in line with the closures 15 because of commercial fishing. 16 17 Thank you for your comments there, 18 Frances. 19 20 So that brings us up to Jacob Ivanoff. 21 I almost said Jacob (indiscernible -- laughing). 22 That's okay though. 23 24 It's your mic, Jacob. 25 26 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: All right. Good 27 morning, Council. Thank you. 28 29 Just for my personal, what's the 30 clarification for a qualified subsistence user on 31 Federal land. 32 33 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Go ahead, Carl. 34 35 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you. And through 36 the Chair. Again Carl Johnson with OSM. 37 38 So under Title 8 of ANILCA people who 39 live in a rural area, that's the starting point, are 40 Federally-qualified users. And then if the Federal 41 Subsistence Board has recognized what we call a 42 customary and traditional use, it's not that it wasn't 43 there, but the Board -- somebody asks the Boars, would 44 you please recognize our customary and traditional use 45 of fish or wildlife for this community. And then the 46 Board goes through an analysis and then they will 47 either, you know, grant or reject that request. So if 48 you're in a rural area and then also if the Board has 49 recognized your customary and traditional use, then 50

Page 214 1 you're a Federally-qualified subsistence users. And 2 then that applies for, you know, the fish or the 3 wildlife or whatever it is on Federal public lands. 4 5 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: All right. Thank 6 you. Now, back to the topic of discussion of extending 7 the moose season, or the length of it. The Federal 8 hunt is from August 14th until September 14th, correct? 9 10 MR. SEPPI: (Indiscernible -- away from 11 mic) 12 13 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: Okay. And when the 14 State opens or extends the moose season, does that 15 supersede the Federal length of hunt? So like this 16 year the State allowed us to hunt until September 30th, 17 or until the quota was caught. Now, if I was to 18 harvest a moose on Federal lands after September 14th, 19 would I be penalized for doing so? 20 21 MR. SEPPI: Oh, boy. 22 23 (Laughter) 24 25 MR. SEPPI: Bruce Seppi, BLM. I'm not 26 expert on, you know, Federal and State game laws, but, 27 for instance, when -- the main thing of the Federal 28 hunt here is that there was a subsistence opportunity 29 for local people before the State hunt opened. And 30 that ended on September 14th, that's on the books. 31 It's August 16th through September -- the Federal hunt. 32 But the State extended it, and so that allowed -- that 33 allows the hunt to occur both on Federal and State 34 land, so you're legal to go anywhere because of the 35 State -- but you're not hunting under Federal regs; 36 you're not hunting with a Federal permit. You're using 37 the State. 38 39 CHAIRMAN GREEN: What was that 40 timeframe again. 41 42 MR. SEPPI: The Federal hunt for 22A, 43 that's FM2201, was August 15th to September 14th. 44 45 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Does that match the 46 State's? Okay. So that's what I wanted to..... 47 48 MR. SEPPI: Well, the State extended 49 it, because people weren't getting moose. It was warm, 50

Page 215 1 you know, August 15th was still warm in this hunt, so 2 people tended to wait to hunt, and the quota wasn't 3 met, so the State extended it. But that was totally 4 the State hunt. The Federal hunt was over. 5 6 CHAIRMAN GREEN: But they have an 7 emergency order they can have that. 8 9 MR. SEPPI: Yes. 10 11 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So they extended the 12 hunt. Was the it the same as -- what was the State 13 date. Original. 14 15 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: September 1st to 16 September 14th. 17 18 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. So it's..... 19 20 MR. SEPPI: Yes. 21 22 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. I think Leland 23 has another question. 24 25 MR. OYOUMICK: Yeah. Is it possible 26 for them to have the same opening, like the State and 27 the Federal, they can't get together and agree that 28 these folks need moose, they want to hunt them when 29 they're good. Can they do that? 30 31 Thank you. 32 33 MR. SEPPI: Mr. Oyoumick: Through the 34 Chair. Yes, ideally we would all want, you know, State 35 and Federal rules to align so you didn't have to worry 36 if you were on State or Federal land. I think -- and 37 that would have to go through a proposal and go through 38 the whole process and go to the Federal Subsistence 39 Board and you guys would be -- this Board would be the 40 ones who would initiate that. 41 42 But the deal was here, the reason for 43 having that earlier hunt is that before that State hunt 44 opened, it allowed people from Unalakleet specifically 45 to hunt two weeks early. And that was the reason for 46 it. And because it's so darn warm now in August, it 47 really wasn't much of an advantage any more. Although 48 I've heard people want to start earlier even if that 49 works for them. But a proposal would have to be put in 50

Page 216 1 to change that is what I'm getting at. 2 3 MR. OYOUMICK: Thank you. 4 5 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So we would put the 6 proposal in on the Federal level, but what about the 7 State level, because they're September 14th. Do we 8 have -- go ahead. 9 10 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: I also sit on the 11 AC, so we'd have to submit the proposal. In order to 12 open the lower drainage of the Unalakleet, we'd have to 13 go through BOG. And so even if we extended or put a 14 proposal in to the Subsistence Board, that still does 15 not allow us to harvest a moose from the mouth of 16 Unalakleet to the mouth of Chiroskey. So like the 17 previous, if we were to extend or open the hunts for 18 the State, to align with BLM, I think that would be 19 better for us. I know with discussing with some of the 20 other AC members, that is a possibility of putting in a 21 proposal this year to extend the start date as the 22 14th. 23 24 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So if the Southern 25 Northern Sound Advisory Committee put one in and it 26 went through, then it would be kind of like this 27 Council to go ahead and mirror that after that was 28 taken up through the Board of Game process. I could 29 see that happening pretty easy. So whatever you folks 30 get on the State side. It makes sense, because like 31 you say, the opportunity at the Federal level was 32 giving them an August, and we can see the problems with 33 that, because we were witnessing the same thing up in 34 the Nome area, that it's too early for moose to do, and 35 moving around. 36 37 So, Tommy, you had a comment or 38 concern. 39 40 MR. GRAY: So the way I understand it 41 right now, on Federal lands you can hunt August 14th to 42 September 14th basically, something in that arena. 43 44 MR. SEPPI: It starts August 15th, 45 yeah. 46 47 MR. GRAY: Yeah. And the concern that 48 we had from a couple of Board members was September 49 14th there was still hardly moose around, and people 50

Page 217 1 weren't able to get moose. So my thought -- I mean, 2 I'm sitting here as an outsider looking in, thinking, 3 you know, there's only 30-some moose get shot in the 4 system, and the State shuts it down. The State or the 5 Feds or whoever. And what's to say that we don't have 6 an emergency order to have it from August 15th or 14th, 7 or whatever it is, to November 15th or December 31st, 8 because they're going to shut it down anyway at some 9 point. And at least everybody will have opportunity, 10 you know. I guess I'm thinking out loud, and how can 11 we solve this problem of folks getting their moose at 12 some point or the other. 13 14 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: On that, we'd have 15 to bring that to the State level, because I personally 16 as a hunter will not hunt on Federal -- during the 17 Federal hunt. I mean, I'm going to sit there and drive 18 this entire river all the way up to the mouth of 19 Chiroskey, and not be able to harvest a moose. So I 20 feel that if I have to travel from here up to Chiroskey 21 or I have to get on the Federal lands and camp for 22 several weeks to harvest a moose, then I'll do so, but 23 during the Federal hunt, I don't even bother getting a 24 permit, because I am unable to harvest a moose within 25 the lower section of the drainage. 26 27 CHAIRMAN GREEN: On state lands. 28 29 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: Yes, on the State 30 land. 31 32 MR. GRAY: How far is the Chiroskey? 33 34 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: 20 miles. 35 36 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: About 20 river 37 miles. 38 39 MR. GRAY: Yeah. And I drive 20 miles 40 on my system and not worry about it. But, you know, 41 the point, the thing I'm thinking about sitting here is 42 I represent subsistence hunters, and I really don't 43 care what the State does. How can I help my 44 subsistence hunters through the Federal program? The 45 State at some point should mirror what we're doing, and 46 not -- you know, again, my feeling is I'm going to do 47 what's best for my clientele, which is Federal 48 subsistence users. Or subsistence users on Federal 49 lands. So, you know, and if the State wants to do 50

Page 218 1 their part, they're going to mirror what happens here. 2 3 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: And I agree with 4 that, and I see the only way that we can on this, the 5 Federal level, to help the hunt here in the Unalakleet 6 drainage, or in 22A, is to increase it from August 1st 7 until September 15th, because by the time that the 8 State hunt comes in line, if we extend the State hunt 9 season until the 30th, then that also opens up the 10 Federal lands to moose hunt, and so by that point, when 11 the State has the extension, it doesn't matter if the 12 Feds extend it or not, because we're still allowed to 13 harvest it on Federal lands. So that would be the only 14 solution to increasing the length time would be push 15 the start date earlier for the Federal hunt. 16 17 MR. GRAY: The thing I'm struggling 18 with is we've got two different things here going, and 19 on one side of the coin folks are saying the moose 20 aren't on the system, they're not on -- and by middle 21 of September there's still no moose around, and we're 22 still not getting animals. So having a hunt end 23 September 14th doesn't really accomplish anything for 24 the clientele. You know, I think that end date needs 25 to go longer, and again there's -- you're only going to 26 get to shoot 32 or 34 moose no matter what, and it's 27 going to shut down whether it's the State or the Feds. 28 So, shoot, you can run it until March of next year, and 29 it really doesn't matter, because there's a number 30 that's gong to shut it down. And, you know, your 31 subsistence users are the ones that -- people trying to 32 fill their freezers is who I'm worried about. I'm not 33 worried about the guides or the other people. You 34 know, we all make a living and we're -- if we don't 35 like it, we're going to go somewhere else. 36 37 But again -- and the reason this talk 38 is even being talked about was there was very few moose 39 shot before they closed the system down. And they had 40 to extend it, and it still got closed down. So how do 41 we deal with that. 42 43 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: Well, this year we 44 had harvested over the limit of 35. We got 36. There 45 was 36 moose harvested here this year. Last year there 46 was 27 moose harvested. And they even had the winter 47 hunt from December 1st until January 31st and there was 48 no moose harvested then. And -- sorry, I just had a 49 lost of thought. 50

Page 219 1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I've got a question. 2 So you already have a Federal hunt of August 15th, two 3 weeks prior to the beginning of the State hunt, which 4 gives you a hunt in the beginning over the State by two 5 weeks. The State has the option of emergency order to 6 extend if they see necessary. If we do something, pick 7 a date, an ending date for the Federal lands, would 8 that -- it wouldn't matter, would it? It's not going 9 to matter, because the State had the ability to do it 10 anyway, so it's up to the State to do what they did, 11 and it sounds to me like that's already providing 12 subsistence opportunity, and they're willing to extend 13 when they don't have the quota met by the deadline of 14 September 14th. How long did they extend it? 15 16 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: Until the 30th. 17 18 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. So it's already 19 in the making. WE already provide through the Federal 20 side two weeks in advance of the State and then the 21 State has the option of adding another two weeks or 22 whatever they deem necessary to fill the quota. So 23 like Tommy says, you've only got that many animals, so 24 it sounds like the State and the Feds have already got 25 something in place that could work. 26 27 Boop. 28 29 MR. OYOUMICK: Leland here with a 30 question What was my question. Man. Anyway, I'll 31 think of it. Just a minute. 32 33 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I write my stuff down 34 so I don't get caught like that, because it does 35 happen. 36 37 (Laughter) 38 39 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Ron. 40 41 MR. KIRK: Yeah. Ron Kirk, Stebbins. 42 43 Looking at this hunting guide 44 regulations here, it shows that the -- it talks about 45 permit available in persons licensed vendors in 46 Unalakleet beginning August 1st, so I'm wondering since 47 the State allows the permitting vendors to sell permits 48 on August 1st, why can't the Federals -- we as a 49 Federal Board coincide with the State and give 50

Page 220 1 Unalakleet their opportunity of opening on August 1st 2 until the quota is met. Because where I come from, in 3 the remainder of 22A, we open August 1st, because a lot 4 of our elders that have gone before me did not like the 5 moose meat that was harvested in beginning of September 6 because of rutting season, and it's more hard and not 7 too edible, good taste. So I'm wondering why we as a 8 Federal Board can't coincide with the State 9 regulations, according to the State's management over. 10 11 Thank you. 12 13 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks, Ron. 14 15 Bruce. 16 17 MR. SEPPI: Bruce Seppi with BLM. 18 19 Yes, it would take a proposal to change 20 that and go through the Federal Subsistence Board. But 21 I think the State hunt typically tries to avoid the rut 22 for biological reasons, especially when moose 23 population is low. They don't want -- if they can 24 avoid it, they don't want to have the hunt go right 25 through the rut so people are chasing moose around and 26 it's disturbing the run and cows aren't getting bred 27 and that sort of thing. And so they try to have the 28 hunt early, and then close it during the rut, and then 29 if the quota wasn't met, they want to open it later. 30 That's ideal. And also that you get bulls that, you 31 know, are in rut, and the meat isn't as good. So that 32 is a consideration that Fish and Game tries to not have 33 the hunt right during the rut. 34 35 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: And to add onto 36 that is that during the rutting season, it's a lot 37 easier to call the bulls out during that time. I 38 personally have done that several times, and so I know 39 that for a fact. 40 41 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Well, I would say that 42 the problem is solved. The Fed hunt is open on the 43 15th of August, unless you want to open it earlier, but 44 at this point it's the 15th of August through basically 45 September 30th with the State extending it, so the 46 opportunity is there unless somebody's got an argument 47 to that from what I hear from here. 48 49 Boop. 50

Page 221 1 MR. OYOUMICK: Leland Oyoumick here 2 with a question. I thought of my question now. How 3 many moose do you need to see in our drainage system 4 before you will lift the quota number. 5 6 MR. SEPPI: Bruce Seppi with BLM. 7 8 Mr. Oyoumick, you'd have to get that 9 from Fish and Game. Actually for a number of years 10 since the moratorium the limit for this bull hunt was 11 22, but we did a GSPE moose survey I believe in '16 12 here. Do you remember? And the numbers were up, not 13 tremendously up, but they were coming up, and so that's 14 when they raised the combined quota of State and 15 Federal to 34. And that hopefully will continue to go 16 up. And they probably will be careful not to 17 completely throw it open, because remember, once you do 18 that, if this population takes off and goes really 19 high, they can't justify keeping it closed to non- 20 qualified subsistence users. So that's another factor. 21 If there were a lot of moose here, there would be 22 enough for everybody, and we're under pressure to open 23 it up to guides and outfitters and non-qualified. So I 24 don't have a number for you to know exactly how many 25 moose, but they're still in a status of pretty low 26 numbers, and so -- although it's increasing, so it 27 would take a lot more, and I don't have a number for 28 you. 29 30 MR. OYOUMICK: Thank you. 31 32 CHAIRMAN GREEN: 35 -- or 34 here? 33 34 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: Yes. 35 36 CHAIRMAN GREEN: We only got 61 in 37 Nome. 38 39 MR. SEPPI: Bruce Seppi again with BLM. 40 41 42 I think that's based on a four percent 43 harvest rate, and I wish Fish and Game was on the line 44 to verify that, but if recollection is right, it's 45 about four percent of the total population of a bull 46 harvest is sustainable, and that's why it's at 34 right 47 now. 48 49 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Thank you. I 50

Page 222 1 feel comfortable that subsistence needs could be met 2 with the current time frame that's already allotted. 3 You've got two weeks before and two weeks after 4 basically if necessary. And then there's the winter 5 hunt, too, right? There's still an October or 6 November? 7 8 MR. SEPPI: Well, there isn't one on 9 the books for 22A, but if the quota isn't met, then 10 they do, yeah, through executive -- emergency opening, 11 yeah. 12 13 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Right. The State has 14 the ability to do that, so for subsistence opportunity, 15 it sounds like for the number that you have, you have 16 that opportunity. I'd be willing to do whatever you 17 need to make it better, but it sounds like it's already 18 there. You've got..... 19 20 Jake. 21 22 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: No, I was just 23 going to say this year I didn't harvest a moose in the 24 drainage. I actually drove all the way down to Kotlik 25 into 21E, and so being able to see the difference in 26 the antlers there and the size in comparison to here, 27 that you can tell that they're two totally different -- 28 not species, but the way that they're -- how do you say 29 it. 30 31 MR. SEPPI: Different population. 32 33 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: A different 34 population is that the antlers are a lot smaller but 35 thicker. And so that's a way -- I don't know if that 36 is a way to help with identification of them during 37 that survey. 38 39 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I think that's -- when 40 it comes to antler size and shape, I think it has to do 41 with the quality of feed, the amount biologically 42 anyway that I've learned over the years. 43 44 If you have anything else. 45 46 MR. JACOB IVANOFF: Thank you. 47 48 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Well, thanks 49 for coming forward. We enjoy the discussion. 50

Page 223 1 And if we have no more blue cards, 2 that's everybody. So we need to move on and shift 3 gears here to..... 4 5 MR. GRAY: Louis. 6 7 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. 8 9 Tommy, go ahead. 10 11 MR. GRAY: So Leland and Doug brought 12 up the issue of this moose thing, and I think it's 13 appropriate that they end this discussion however they 14 want. 15 16 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Doug, are you 17 satisfied with what..... 18 19 MR. KATCHATAG: Well, in a sense, but 20 how often will the Fish and Game extend the moose 21 season. They don't always extend the moose season. 22 And my concern is if we don't get the quota, because of 23 global warming and climate change they're still up in 24 the hills, what are we going to do? Wait until winter 25 when it's damn cold out there? Not me, but there are a 26 lot more moose between September 15th and September 27 30th than there is from August until then. So I'm not 28 satisfied with what they say, because we need that 29 moose to survive. Some of us do, not all of us. But 30 the best time to get it is toward the end of the 31 season. And they talk about Fish and Game extending 32 the moose season. How often did they do that in my 33 lifetime? Not too often. 34 35 Thank you. 36 37 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Doug. 38 39 Boop. 40 41 MR. OYOUMICK: I don't know. I just 42 wish the kings would be better, but, you know, you can 43 wish all your want. Anyway, the locals here have lived 44 from this river, from this area since I don't know 45 when, but I always say there's no idea how long we've 46 been here, but what they tell us through your 47 anthropology once again. But we've never been 48 regulated until we discovered how much money can be 49 made from the resources that are here, be it guiding, 50

Page 224 1 commercial fishing, tourism, whatever, you know, and 2 we're being left out as far as our food, you know. We 3 want it back, that's all. 4 5 MR. JOHNSON: Mr. Chairman. 6 7 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Carl. 8 9 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 10 Carl Johnson with OSM. 11 12 So there's not a need for you to 13 resolve this at this meeting. I think the important 14 thing was while we were here in Unalakleet to hear from 15 people in the community, to give them the opportunity 16 to speak and say some things on the record that this 17 Council could use in the future. 18 19 And the reason why I say there's not a 20 need to resolve this today is because of timing. You 21 know, this season is already done, so the next time 22 this would come up would be the next fall season. And 23 at your winter meeting you can do two things. You can 24 discuss whether or not you want to submit a regulatory 25 proposal to put a permanent change in the regulations 26 to change the season dates, whether to start it earlier 27 and/or extend it to later. And then also at that same 28 meeting you could decide whether or not you want to 29 submit a special action request that would be an 30 interim fix that would allow that change to occur at 31 the next fall season before the regulatory proposal 32 could go into effect. 33 34 So that's still something you have time 35 to work on. It's not something you have to resolve 36 today. 37 38 And I think the important thing to keep 39 in mind, too, what I'm hearing the discussion about 40 whether or not Fish and Game extends the season is that 41 there still is a difference between the State and the 42 Federal management in that when the State has a season, 43 even if it's a state subsistence season, I'm a 44 subsistence user under State regulations. I'm not 45 under Federal. So anybody can come and hunt for that 46 State season regardless of where they're from. And a 47 Federal season, however, will be very limited as to who 48 can do that. 49 50

Page 225 1 So just something to keep in mind. And 2 that's something that is still on the agenda for this 3 meeting is for me to have a talk with you about that 4 difference on State and Federal management. 5 6 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 7 8 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Carl. 9 10 MR. GRAY: Louis. 11 12 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Go ahead, Tommy. 13 14 MR. GRAY: So if we put this issue off 15 until the spring meeting, and we vote to do a special 16 action, is there a Federal big boy meeting that that 17 special action request can go to in the spring so it's 18 in place by the new regulatory year, that fall? You 19 know, I'm trying to feel out if we don't take action 20 here, and do take action in the spring, can it be 21 implemented in the fall if the big Board adopts 22 whatever special action we want. Does that make sense? 23 24 MR. JOHNSON: Yes. And through the 25 Chair. Tom, yes, special actions are submitted at any 26 time of the year, and there are a lot of different ways 27 for the Board to take action on that. Sometimes, 28 depending on when it's scheduled, when that special 29 action is submitted, they might take it up at one of 30 their regular regulatory meetings, they might take it 31 up at like their summer work session, or they might 32 just do what's called poll of the Board where they just 33 do a quick, kind of a telephonic get together, discuss 34 that special action, and then either agree to submit it 35 or reject it. So there are a lot of different ways for 36 the Board to address special actions as they come in 37 through the whole year, so that it would be possible 38 for that special action to be implemented for the fall 39 2019 season. 40 41 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Ron. 42 43 MR. KIRK: Yeah. Mr. Chair. Is there 44 a possibility of having our Staff notify the tribal 45 government here in Unalakleet, letting them know that 46 if thy wish to extend their moose season to have that 47 recommendation written to the Board before our spring 48 meeting, and then we can have it on paper. 49 50

Page 226 1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: There's no reason why 2 it couldn't happen. They're in consultation on 3 different issues along the way, so the tribes and ANCSA 4 corporations, you know, have that. They get notified. 5 6 Did I cover what you were just going to 7 say. 8 9 MR. JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. Chair. I was 10 just going to say that for special actions there is a 11 tribal and ANCSA consultation opportunity just like 12 there was with WSA18-03 that we discussed yesterday. 13 So whether it's a regulatory proposal or a special 14 action, we do invite the affected tribes and ANCSA 15 corporations to consult with the Board on those 16 proposals. 17 18 MR. KIRK: If you don't hear from the 19 local tribe here from this village concerning a special 20 action to extend, how can we enforce that to make sure 21 that it gets extended. 22 23 MR. JOHNSON: Through the Chair. We 24 would definitely seek help from the local Council 25 members if there's something going on in their 26 community that we're trying to get information to the 27 community, to the tribe, and get feedback from them. 28 We would definitely get the help of the local Council 29 member. 30 31 MR. KIRK: Thank you. 32 33 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Tommy. 34 35 MR. GRAY: So I guess reading between 36 the lines, I've heard two different versions. One 37 version was open it up August 1st. Another version was 38 close it September 30th or 31st. 30th. And, you know, 39 in the middle of two worlds, there's no reason we can't 40 have a special action request which is a proposal to do 41 both. We open it up August 1st and close it September 42 30th. That happens 2019. We put a proposal in, and 43 that proposal does that same thing in the books that it 44 changes in our regulations. And within that proposal 45 it says if the State shuts down the river quota, then 46 our hunt is shut down, the Federal hunt. So, you know, 47 I think that it's something that we can work in both 48 worlds and make everybody happy. And, you know, the 49 State I would say needs to come alongside and mirror 50

Page 227 1 what we did. But if it doesn't happen here, I would 2 like to see it on the agenda in our spring meeting. 3 Okay. 4 5 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Elmer. 6 7 MR. SEETOT: Elmer Seetot, Brevig 8 Mission. Mr. Oyoumick issues a -- said that he posted 9 a special action request flyer or information on the 10 board, so that is available to anyone in the 11 communities. But sometimes there's so many papers on 12 the bulletin board that we just kind of scan them 13 without really looking at them completely, so it's a 14 good idea to, you know, at least announce or saying 15 that there's something in the bulletin board that needs 16 to be addressed to our local issue, so something like 17 that. I get more retention when somebody say something 18 to me about that flyer, instead of just say, hey, look 19 at this. You've got to do something about it. So I 20 guess that's pretty much inherent from, you know, being 21 from a little toddler, look at the -- I'll look at that 22 and just scan it. But when someone reinforces with 23 words or actual things, then you have better attention 24 to actually respond to it instead of say, oh, there's 25 something on the bulletin board that you have to look 26 at. 27 28 So Mr. Oyoumick had the thing posted 29 up, so I think it's up to any local tribe or 30 organization, you know, to do their thing when certain 31 things come into being. 32 33 Thank you. 34 35 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks, Elmer. I 36 think something that -- it would be great for me if I 37 was in Nome and somebody wanted to approach me and ask 38 me about those kind of things, and want to work on a 39 proposal. And I think that you two fellows here that, 40 you know, know, your name being listed on an ad or 41 something, putting it on the bulletin board, contact us 42 about this proposal, we can work on one together. It 43 doesn't take much to write one, if you wanted to get 44 ideas on how to put it together. 45 46 I kind of fall into thinking that at 47 this point, because somebody said August 15th they 48 weren't getting anything, it's kind of -- the Fed side 49 has already kind of opened it up. I mean, if you want 50

Page 228 1 to open it up on May 1st and go all the way until 2 summer into fall time, I'm not having a problem with 3 that. 4 5 So at the next meeting, if you want to 6 have a proposal generated, you guys could generate one 7 and this Council could back it and submit it. 8 9 So I think we're getting noon here now. 10 We've got agency reports to go through. We did the -- 11 and then the FRMP to finish up on. We've got to decide 12 what we want to do -- we were talking about on the map 13 up there, and what potential project we could ask for. 14 So we need to have that discussion there, too. 15 16 Carl. 17 18 MR. JOHNSON: Yeah. Mr. Chair, again 19 as you're going through the process of looking at 20 what's left on the agenda, the FRMP priority 21 information needs is an action item that should be, not 22 to be punny, but a priority, and then identify issues 23 for annual report is also another action item. And 24 still on the agenda is the requested ANILCA 25 presentation. If the Council wishes, we can hear that 26 today; if not, we could push that to the winter 27 meeting. And then as you noted, the agency reports, 28 and then confirming your future meeting dates. 29 30 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 31 32 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Carl. I'm 33 going to make some notes here real quick. So I kind of 34 want to go through these reports. Do we have -- what 35 do we have on agency. We've got people on line here. 36 Carl. I'm used to somebody with a laptop having 37 control over who's calling in and numbers at Board 38 meetings, and I know you don't have that, and now I'm 39 just thinking out loud. 40 41 So go ahead. 42 43 MR. JOHNSON: Certainly. Mr. Chair. 44 What we could do at this time is if there are any 45 agencies on the telephone who have not yet had an 46 opportunity to give their agency reports, we can open 47 that up at this time. And we'll leave it at that. 48 49 Mr. Chair. 50

Page 229 1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I'll just go down the 2 list real quick here. There's agencies reports, 3 limited to 15 minutes unless approved in advance, blah- 4 blah-blah. Okay. 5 6 Tribal governments. Are there anybody 7 with tribal governments to give a report on line. 8 9 (No comments) 10 11 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Hearing none, Native 12 organization reports. 13 14 (No comments) 15 16 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Hearing none. 17 18 National Park Service. 19 20 MR. ADKISSON: Mr. Chair. This is Ken 21 Adkisson with the Park Service. I think Letty and 22 Nikki covered yesterday our projects and things that 23 we're involved in, and I could just, you know, add very 24 shortly to stress how glad we are to have Letty on our 25 staff now, and that's going to give us a lot more 26 potential to, you know, increase our activities in the 27 wildlife area from data collection, monitoring, and 28 work on regulatory stuff. So, you know, things are 29 actually looking up. 30 31 I think that's about it. 32 33 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Ken, thanks for 34 that. 35 36 And so that moves me into BLM report. 37 38 MR. SEPPI: Mr. Chair. Bruce Seppi 39 with BLM. Our field manager wanted to talk about our 40 Bering Sea/Western Interior land use plan, but I'd have 41 to get her on the phone. She was fully expecting it to 42 be this afternoon. 43 44 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. We can bring 45 that back. 46 47 MR. SEPPI: If we could default to 48 then. 49 50

Page 230 1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Yes. Okay. 2 3 MR. SEPPI: Thanks. 4 5 CHAIRMAN GREEN: ADF&G. Justin, Leon 6 and Janet were in here yesterday and gave a report. We 7 took them out of order there. 8 9 Office of Subsistence Management. 10 11 Carl. 12 13 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 14 The written OSM report can be found at Page 153 of your 15 meeting books. 16 17 Principally the second page of that 18 report is now obsolete. That dealt with what action 19 the Board took when the wildlife regulations were not 20 published on time, but now those Federal wildlife 21 regulations have been published in the Federal Register 22 and they are now in effect. 23 24 So the other main highlights there are 25 some staffing changes. First of all, if you hadn't 26 heard, Gene Peltola, Jr. who was our assistant regional 27 director has left the program and is now the regional 28 director for the BIA. That means you will see him 29 again at the next Federal Subsistence Board meeting, 30 because he is now a Board member. In the interim, Tom 31 Doolittle who is the deputy assistant regional director 32 is the acting ARD for OSM. And we received -- we have 33 a new fisheries division chief, and that is Greg 34 Risdahl who come to us. He was most recently the 35 Izembek National Wildlife Refuge manager. 36 37 We also -- some of the updates for the 38 other staffing that we're trying to do. The fisheries 39 biologist position has been filled actually by somebody 40 who was already at OSM, Scott Ayers. He essentially 41 received a promotion to that fisheries biologist 42 position. But we are still actively seeking to fill 43 those other positions that are mentioned. 44 45 And that is all I have for an OSM 46 report, and I'm happy to answer any questions the 47 Council may have. 48 49 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Carl. Any 50

Page 231 1 questions. 2 3 (No comments) 4 5 CHAIRMAN GREEN: No questions. I think 6 we'll take about a 30-minute lunch break. We want to 7 discuss some of this during the lunch break here about 8 this priority on the FRMP. I'm getting those letters 9 in the right order now. So anyway it's about five 10 after. We'll come back at 12:35. 11 12 (Off record) 13 14 (On record) 15 16 CHAIRMAN GREEN: .....for the report at 17 this time. 18 19 MS. MILLION: Good afternoon. Thank 20 you very much, Mr. Chair. This is Bonnie Million. I'm 21 the field manager for the BLM Anchorage field office. 22 Thank you so much for the opportunity to chat with 23 everybody today. 24 25 I wanted to provide the group a brief 26 update on our ongoing Bering Sea/Western Interior 27 Resource Management Plan project. There was, and 28 hopefully there are, excuse me, some handouts there at 29 the meeting with our most recent newsletter. The 30 Bureau of Land Management has recently gone through a 31 NEPA streamlining. That's the National Environmental 32 Policy Act streamlining effort in an attempt to make 33 our documents more readable, more acceptable, and to 34 allow them to be completed in a more -- I guess what 35 would be described as a more appropriate time frame, 36 instead of dragging out for a while. 37 38 So currently we are moving forward with 39 the resource management plan. We are hoping to release 40 a draft environmental impact statement and draft 41 resource management plan sometime this winter. We were 42 originally hoping to release it in November, but I 43 believe that is probably going to get pushed back a 44 little bit. So I think, especially given daylight 45 hours shrinking, and aviation flights and whatnot being 46 a little bit more limited over the winter, we're hoping 47 to have this out for public comment, a 90-day comment 48 period hopefully starting a little bit later this 49 winter, possibly in January of '19. At that time, that 50

Page 232 1 document will be posted on our website. There will be 2 paper copies that will be sent out to the tribes that 3 are within the planning area, and then we will be 4 scheduling public community meetings to allow for 5 public comment on both the project and also on the 6 ANILCA .810 subsistence analysis for the project. 7 8 In the meantime, because I know this 9 has been definitely a very quick ramp up of the 10 project, if there are any communities or any tribes 11 that would be interested, tribes especially or ANCSA 12 corporations that would be interested in consultation, 13 we're definitely available for that. Please get in 14 touch with myself. My phone number down here is 267- 15 1285. Or you can get in touch with Georgina Barringer, 16 and I believe her contact information is on that 17 newsletter flyer as well, as is mine. You can get in 18 touch with either of us, and we're more than happy to 19 talk. Any community, tribe, corporation through where 20 we're at in the process, and what's going to be coming 21 up for the public comment period. And again that will 22 be a 90-day public comment period once that draft 23 environmental impact statement is released. 24 25 And that's sort of the big ticket items 26 for that. I do know, especially in the Seward 27 Peninsula Subsistence Resource Advisory Council area, 28 there were several communities that submitted 29 nominations for areas of critical environmental 30 concern, so I know that there are communities up there 31 that will be very interested in seeing how those are 32 being handled, and how we're moving forward with those. 33 I know that was an area of concern. And then also 34 subsistence access, overland travel, both winter and 35 summer subsistence use. And so we're available to talk 36 about any of those areas that folks have concerns 37 about. 38 39 And that's sort of the big ticket 40 update for the resource management plan. 41 42 We do have -- I guess I'll take 43 questions on that, if the Council has any questions. 44 45 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Anybody on Council 46 have questions. 47 48 (No comments) 49 50

Page 233 1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Seeing none, continue, 2 Bonnie, please. 3 4 Thank you. 5 6 MS. MILLION: Okay. I've got two other 7 projects that are slightly smaller. One is the 8 Squirrel River special recreation management area. I 9 know it's not directly within your area, but I do know 10 it does potentially have some impacts with the Western 11 Arctic Caribou Herd movements and whatnot. We're 12 working on a resource -- special recreation management 13 area plan for that area that will hopefully address 14 some of the conflicts that we've been hearing about 15 between subsistence users, outfitter and guides, 16 sporthunters, and transporters in that area. And we 17 are hoping to have that draft environmental analysis 18 released for public comment in February of 2019, and 19 I'd be happy to provide copies of that document to the 20 Council if they would be interested. 21 22 And then the second project that's 23 upcoming, this is definitely in the future, I would say 24 within the next three to six months it's something that 25 we will be kicking off, and that is looking at some of 26 the public land orders that are on the Seward 27 Peninsula, specifically some of the ANCSA and 17(d)(1) 28 withdrawals which are currently on BLM lands and that 29 are sort of locking up those lands and not allowing for 30 State selection or ANCSA selections to continue to be 31 conveyed. The BLM in Alaska is starting to look 32 through some of those public land orders to determine 33 where we can lift them and allow the conveyance to 34 State and to ANCSA corporations to continue to move 35 forward. And I know the Seward Peninsula is -- I 36 believe right now they're working on the 40-mile area 37 outside of Fairbanks, but after they're done with that, 38 they plan to start working on the Seward Peninsula area 39 next. So I wanted to give folks a head's up on that. 40 41 Essentially what that means is once 42 those, if those, D-1 withdrawals are listed, any top 43 filings of State or ANCSA corporation-selected lands 44 would then fall into place. So if there is an area 45 that's closed to mining currently because of a D-1 46 withdrawal, and it is State-selected, once that D-1 47 withdrawal is lifted, the State selection would fall 48 into place, and it would still be closed for mining 49 until that State selection is taken care of. 50

Page 234 1 I know it's a little bit of a 2 convoluted realty process, but I just wanted to give 3 the Council a head's up that that will be coming. 4 Again, if there are any questions or if the Council 5 would like more information, I'd be more than happy to 6 provide that. 7 8 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Tommy, do you have a 9 question. You had your finger on the..... 10 11 MR. GRAY: I was turning it down. 12 13 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Oh, sorry about that, 14 Bonnie. 15 16 MS. MILLION: No, no worries. 17 18 CHAIRMAN GREEN: There doesn't seem to 19 be any questions here at this point. 20 21 MS. MILLION: Okay. Well, if the 22 Council does have anything, if there's any additional 23 information or additional projects that folks have been 24 hearing about that you would like more information 25 about, please do let me know, and I'd be more than 26 happy to provide that. 27 28 So thank you again, Mr. Chair, for the 29 opportunity, and I hope you have a great rest of the 30 meeting. 31 32 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Bonnie, for 33 your patience. We've kind of danced around the last 34 couple days on this agenda, so appreciate everybody on 35 line there. We have somebody..... 36 37 MS. MILLION: No worries. No worries. 38 39 Thank you. 40 41 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I think Bruce has a 42 comment here. Oh, he didn't like that table. 43 44 MR. SEPPI: Hi. Bruce Seppi with BLM. 45 46 Just one thing to add. The Western 47 Arctic Caribou Herd Working Group meeting will be 48 occurring in Anchorage on December 12th and 13th with a 49 technical committee working on the 11th. I know Member 50

Page 235 1 Gray is on that board, and he's well aware of that. 2 We've contracted with a logistics contractor, and so 3 they'll be contacting the group shortly. But that 4 meeting will be happening on the 12th and 13th in a 5 yet-to-be-determined hotel in Anchorage. So I know it 6 doesn't directly affect this area, but the Western 7 Arctic Caribou Herd does come down here or it has in 8 the past, and so many of the issues that deal with 9 guides and outfitters and the Western Arctic Herd will 10 be discussed at that meeting, so just to let you know 11 that meeting's going on in Anchorage. 12 13 CHAIRMAN GREEN: December? 14 15 MR. SEPPI: December 12th and 13th is 16 when the main public meeting is, and the technical 17 committee of the committee itself will be meeting on 18 the 11th before the two day meeting to discuss all what 19 went on with the Western Arctic Caribou Herd this year, 20 and population dynamics, and that sort of thing. 21 22 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Thank you. 23 State your name and who you are and what you're doing. 24 Push the button. 25 26 (Laughter) 27 28 MR. GONZALEZ: Hello. My name is 29 Daniel Gonzalez. I work with the Subsistence Division 30 in Fairbanks. I'm the subsistence resource specialist 31 there. I brought in a packet for a small presentation 32 on our data from the 2016/2017 study year where we did 33 some harvest surveys out in Buckland, Noatak, and 34 Koyuk. I have that here if you guys have time for it 35 today. 36 37 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I think we have time 38 to hear your presentation. You have the floor. 39 40 Bonnie, are you still there. 41 42 MS. MILLION: Yes, sir. 43 44 CHAIRMAN GREEN: That caribou could be 45 scented and smell like (in Native language), and those 46 snowshoes on your flyer could smell like rawhide, and 47 the dried fish and..... 48 49 MS. MILLION: We should. We should do 50

Page 236 1 a scratch and sniff. 2 3 CHAIRMAN GREEN: There you go. And 4 then that other one, that dredge smell like gold. 5 6 MS. MILLION: Yes. 7 8 (Laughter) 9 10 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks. 11 12 (Pause) 13 14 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Daniel. Good 15 to go. 16 17 MR. GONZALEZ: All right. So for the 18 2016/2017 study year we got some preliminary harvest 19 estimates back from Buckland, Koyuk, and Noatak. 20 21 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Speak into your mic so 22 people on line can hear you. Turn your mic on. 23 24 There you go. 25 26 MR. GONZALEZ: There we go. All right. 27 So for sample achievements in Buckland we got 83 28 percent of the community out of an estimated 100 29 households, and a population size of estimated 518. 30 For Koyuk we ended up getting 69 percent survey sample 31 there, 61 out of 88 estimated households, and a 32 population estimated at 330. And for Noatak we got a 33 78 percent sample size there, 100 out of 128 estimated 34 households with a 539 population estimate. 35 36 On our next page here we're looking at 37 the percentages for harvest and use of caribou. In 38 Buckland, 99 percent of households had used caribou 39 during the study year, but only 83 percent had 40 harvested any. In Koyuk, 89 percent of households used 41 caribou with only 46 percent harvesting. And in Noatak 42 96 percent of the households used caribou, but only 51 43 percent harvested. And this is just another indicator 44 of the prevalence of sharing between households that 45 harvest and the rest of the community. 46 47 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So your point is that 48 because of the low numbers, like 89 percent households 49 use caribou, 46 harvested, you're saying that they're 50

Page 237 1 sharing. And so that's the hunters, 49 percent. 2 3 MR. GONZALEZ: Yeah. Correct. It 4 would be 46 percent of households that hunted the 5 caribou, and then not necessarily 46 gave caribou away. 6 They could have given to another non-hunter who shared 7 with another household, which is also pretty common. 8 9 On the next page here we're looking at 10 a graph that just shows the estimated total harvest, 11 the number of caribou for the 2016/2017 study year. 12 And next to that we're looking at pounds per capita. 13 So for Buckland we're looking at an estimate of 693 14 caribou taken during the 2016/2017 study year, which 15 averaged out about to 179 pounds of meat per person in 16 the community. For Koyuk we're looking at 143 caribou, 17 which averaged out to be 58 pounds estimated of meat 18 per person in the community. And for Noatak there were 19 337 caribou harvested and that's about 80 pounds of 20 meat per person estimated. 21 22 The next slide we're looking at here 23 has got harvest timing information for Buckland. 24 Fifty-six percent of the harvest for Buckland was bulls 25 and 38 percent were cows. Six percent came in as 26 unknown sex. Harvests took place in every month 27 between April and May, April 2016 and May 2017, with 28 the exception of June. Harvests in August through 29 October accounted for 18 percent of the caribou taken, 30 while November through March accounted for 26 percent 31 of the harvest. Twenty-seven percent of the harvest 32 took place during the fall months with respondents 33 unable to recall the exact timing of those harvests. 34 35 Moving on to the next age of this, 36 we're looking at the same information for Koyuk. In 37 Koyuk we got an estimate of 86 percent of the harvest 38 to be bulls, nine percent were cow, and five percent 39 were unknown. February and March harvests had 40 accounted for 39 percent of the total harvest. One- 41 half of the total harvest occurred during winter months 42 when respondents could not recall the exact month of 43 harvest. 44 45 Now on the next page the same set of 46 data, but for Noatak. We're looking at 64 percent 47 bulls taken in the harvest, 34 percent cows, and 2 48 percent were unknown. Harvest in September and October 49 accounted for 44 percent of the total harvest, and 50

Page 238 1 those in December through March accounted for another 2 21 percent. An additional 14 percent of the harvest 3 occurred in unknown fall months, and 12 percent 4 occurred in unknown winter months. 5 6 Now, looking a little bit 7 geographically at where folks were harvesting their 8 caribou. For the Community of Buckland, 90 percent, 9 624 caribou, of the harvest took place in the UCU, 10 Uniform Coding Unit, which is a smaller segment within 11 the game units. Ninety percent of the caribou were 12 taken in the UCU where the Community of Buckland is 13 located. Hunters identified three additional UCUs as 14 areas where caribou were harvested during the study 15 year. In an adjacent UCU to the northeast of Buckland 16 which contains the Kiwalik River, hunters harvested 11 17 caribou, which was roughly two percent of the estimated 18 harvest. Six caribou, or one percent of the harvest, 19 were harvested in the UCU that contains the Community 20 of Noorvik. And the last UCU reported by hunters 21 contains the community of Deering. Hunters harvested 22 four caribou in that area. 23 24 Now looking at harvest areas for Koyuk 25 hunters. In Koyuk, 53 percent, or 75 caribou, 53 26 percent of the harvest took place in the UCU where the 27 community is located. Hunters identified three 28 additional UCUs as areas where caribou were harvested 29 during the study year. Koyuk residents harvested 46 30 caribou, which was 32 percent of the harvest, in an 31 adjacent UCU to the northwest of the community 32 containing the Koyuk River. An additional six caribou, 33 or four percent of the harvest, were harvested in an 34 adjacent UCU to the east that contains the Inglutalik 35 River and the Ayakulik River. Six more caribou were 36 harvest in another adjacent UCU to the northwest of 37 Koyuk that contains the West Fork and South Fork of the 38 Buckland River. 39 40 Moving up to Noatak, in Noatak hunters 41 harvested caribou across 18 UCUs, and a much wider 42 geographic range than those hunters from Buckland and 43 Koyuk. 93 caribou, 28 percent of the estimated harvest 44 were harvested in a UCU along the Noatak River upriver 45 from Avgun to Numuktuk (ph) River. The area of second 46 highest harvest, 59 caribou, 17 percent of the harvest, 47 was in a UCU between the communities of Noatak and 48 Kivalina. The majority of all these 18 UCUs that were 49 used for caribou hunting were geographically 50

Page 239 1 contiguous, starting on the south end near Noatak and 2 going upriver. Of that, four were not contiguous of 3 the 18. Three were located near -- of that four, three 4 of them were located near the southern extent of the 5 Kotzebue Sound near Deering and Buckland. 6 7 We're moving on here to looking at some 8 slides that compare the data from the 2016/17 study 9 year to what we've got in the past. And for Buckland, 10 2016/2017 was the third year of data we've collected 11 for caribou harvest. Buckland hunters harvested 179 12 pounds of caribou per person during the study year, and 13 that was right in between earlier estimates of 212 14 pounds per person in 2003, and 168 pounds per person in 15 2009. 16 17 For Koyuk we have now five years worth 18 of data. And Koyuk hunters in the 2016/2017 study year 19 harvested 58 pounds of caribou per capita during the 20 study year, which represents the lowest of the five 21 years of data we have. They harvested an estimated 129 22 pounds per capita in 1998, 153 pounds in 2004, 168 23 pounds in 2006, and 84 pounds in 2010. 24 25 Now looking back to Noatak, Noatak 26 hunters harvested an estimated 80 pounds per capita 27 during the 2016/17 study year. This was the seventh 28 year of data that we have collected in Noatak on this 29 topic, and caribou harvests -- and this was also the 30 lowest of those seven years aside from 2010/2011. 31 Excuse me. Caribou harvests were estimated at 221 32 pounds per capita in 1994, 224 pounds per capita in 33 1999, 120 pounds per capita in 2002, 114 pounds per 34 capita in 2007, 16 pounds per capita in that really low 35 year of 2010 and '11. The next year after that, in 36 2011 and '12, there were 90 pounds, which is just 10 37 pounds over where we were this previous study year. 38 39 So that concludes all the data. We 40 collected a couple comments. Across the comments from 41 respondents that were provided to us, there were a few 42 themes that kept coming up, and just to go over those 43 briefly, they mainly surrounded air traffic during 44 hunting season, and folks feeling that had a negative 45 impact on their ability to harvest caribou or moose, 46 depending on which community that comment was collected 47 in. Some residents in Noatak felt that the closure of 48 Federal lands in Unit 23 had helped hunters access and 49 get caribou that year, and others commented that the 50

Page 240 1 herd was a great distance from the community, and the 2 expenses to reach it limited attempts to make harvests. 3 4 That's everything that I have prepared, 5 if there are any questions. 6 7 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I have one question. 8 On these low years back in 2010/2011, what was the 9 reasoning for that? Like in Noatak. 10 11 MR. GONZALEZ: I don't have that in 12 front of me at the moment, but I do believe it was due 13 to an unusual fall migration pattern. 14 15 If there are no other questions. 16 17 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Yeah. I was going to 18 ask the Council. 19 20 Leland, go ahead. 21 22 MR. OYOUMICK: Do you folks do anything 23 as far as biology when you get into the animal? Like I 24 don't know how many years ago we submitted a liver that 25 had a bunch of white pock marks all over it. And I 26 never did hear anything about that. Is there some kind 27 of research you can refer to as to why that happened? 28 Is that a disease or a parasite or..... 29 30 MR. GONZALEZ: Through the Chair. On 31 that particular matter I don't know too much. In the 32 Subsistence Division we don't do much with biology. 33 34 MR. OYOUMICK: If we need answer to 35 that question, who do we ask then. 36 37 MR. GONZALEZ: Through the Chair. That 38 was a fish liver or a caribou liver? Caribou? I would 39 direct that towards Bill Dunker in Nome. 40 41 MR. OYOUMICK: Thank you. 42 43 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Elmer. 44 45 MR. SEETOT: Elmer Seetot, Brevig. 46 During these study years, how was the overall health 47 condition of the caribou? Did they state that certain 48 animals were not in prime condition? 49 50

Page 241 1 MR. GONZALEZ: Through the Chair. 2 Going through some of those comments, I have all them 3 on me. I could look through them really quick, but I 4 don't recall much concern about the health of the 5 animals coming up. 6 7 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Any other questions of 8 Council. 9 10 (No comments) 11 12 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Dan, right? 13 14 MR. GONZALEZ: Yep. 15 16 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. I got your name 17 right. And I don't -- I guess that biological stuff, 18 we'd have to talk to Mr. Dunker, so I have no further 19 questions. Appreciate it. 20 21 MR. GONZALEZ: All right. Thank you 22 all for your time. 23 24 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you. Jarred, 25 your turn. Jarred Stone, Fisheries Resource Monitoring 26 Program. 27 28 MR. STONE: Mr. Chair. Members of the 29 Council. Thanks for taking some time this afternoon 30 during lunch to kind of show me the map, show me the 31 extent of some of the Federal lands, kind of bring me 32 up to speed with some potential project ideas. 33 34 I guess right now from what I've heard, 35 it sounds like there's some interest in creating a PIN 36 for understanding coho abundance and spawning locations 37 of some of the rivers in the northern Seward Peninsula. 38 I just wanted to see if that's -- if I'm understanding 39 you correctly and getting at what you were hoping to 40 see drafted here. 41 42 Thank you. 43 44 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Tom. 45 46 MR. GRAY: I've been ranting about this 47 for almost 20 years I bet, so if that's something that 48 can get supported, I very much push it forward. 49 50

Page 242 1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks, Tom. You're 2 talking northern, now that's what we're talking about, 3 like the Boston River in the Bendelebens; that's 4 included? 5 6 MR. STONE: That's a good point, and so 7 with this priority information need, we can be specific 8 and label which rivers are of primary concern to you. 9 It sounded like to me the Boston River came up, and 10 some of the other rivers that were nearby the 11 Bendeleben mountain range. And if there's others, 12 let's get this in writing now, and we'll draft this up 13 so we can get it right. 14 15 MR. GRAY: Okay. So silvers go in 16 Pargon River, Boston River. Those are in the 17 Bendeleben Mountains. There's a certain amount, I'm 18 not sure how far they go into Wagon Wheel. King salmon 19 go into the Boston River. You know, I would dearly 20 love to see the State have an escapement goal back on 21 record for king salmon. They've taken the escapement 22 goal out, and if there is no escapement goal with the 23 State, you know, I've never heard of escapement goals 24 with the Feds, but -- whatever. You know, I really -- 25 it's a little bit frustrating to see the system, quote, 26 the Feds and the State abandon kings in my river system 27 just because the numbers are low. You know, I think 28 subsistence people prioritize targeting those fish when 29 they hit the river, or even coming in from the ocean. 30 When they arrive in our area, they're targeted. And we 31 somehow need to nurture that and prioritize that in our 32 research. 33 34 MR. STONE: Mr. Chair and through the 35 Council. So I agree with you. That's not something 36 that the Federal government would take up and create 37 these escapement goals. That would be more on ADF&G I 38 believe. But that doesn't mean that ADF&G couldn't put 39 in a project for this area, and maybe someday along the 40 line bring those back. I'm not sure on their 41 management plan and strategies for these rivers. 42 43 But aside from that, looking back at 44 drafting this priority information need for the Pargon, 45 Boston, and Wagon Wheel, is there a particular species 46 then that you're most concerned with, like Chinook 47 salmon or coho salmon. And when we draft this priority 48 information need for these rivers, do you want to be 49 specific in the species that are of concern? 50

Page 243 1 MR. GRAY: So if you look at our 2 resource and what people are targeting these days, you 3 know, when the first fish show up, the very first fish, 4 king salmon, are targeted. But there's not enough 5 kings to go around. You've got to be lucky to get a 6 king. So when we're filling our freezers, pink salmon 7 are targeted. In the old days, chums were targeted, 8 and not any more. Pinks. If you go to Camp Hammer, 9 they put up 1500, 2,000 pinks. They put up in the 10 hundreds chums. You go to my camp, there's two to 500 11 pinks get put up, a handful of chums. So these major 12 camps that put fish up, the dry fish that we're making 13 has changed to the pinks. So now we go to fish that 14 get put in the freezer, or smoked or jarred, that's all 15 silver salmon. And silvers need to be nurtured. We 16 need some attention put on those silvers. 17 18 And Fish and Game, you know, we can say 19 all we want about the State, but the State had no 20 interest as far as I'm concerned -- I sit on the AC for 21 northern Norton Sound, and Fish and Game is not putting 22 money into research for these silver salmon. I mean, 23 they've had nickel and dime projects go on, but we -- 24 you know, I'm not happy with -- even if we had 50,000 25 silvers escape into the system, I'm not happy with 26 that. I mean, there's a bit world out there commercial 27 fishing, subsistence users, sportfish. I'm a sportfish 28 lodge. There's all kinds of uses on silvers, and 29 there's no research going into it. So, you know, in 30 this scenario I think silvers need to be highlighted. 31 32 MR. STONE: Through the Chair. Mr. 33 Gray, thank you. So if I'm getting this correct, so we 34 could draft a PIN that basically says for project, 35 research investigators to look at abundance estimates 36 of coho salmon, silver salmon, on the Pargon, Boston, 37 and Wagon Wheel Rivers. 38 39 Thank you. 40 41 One additional thing I'd like to bring 42 up, too, and I kind of mentioned it yesterday. The 43 first draft PIN that I have here, reliable estimates of 44 Chinook salmon escapement on the Unalakleet River. 45 Because that project was funded from the 2018 cycle, 46 for the next four years, so effectively into the end of 47 2021, this priority information need doesn't necessary 48 need to be on this call. It almost -- I don't want to 49 say it would be wasted, just because that research is 50

Page 244 1 being done for the next four years. And in two years I 2 would recommend that maybe this be brought back up 3 again and put back onto the list, because ADF&G is 4 really close to -- I think they need about 10 years 5 worth of abundance estimates on that river to build up 6 a better understanding of their escapement goals. 7 8 And I'm not sure if Justin Leon is on 9 line right now, but he might be able to better describe 10 why this is so important after 10 years. 11 12 Justin, if you're on line. 13 14 (No comments) 15 16 MR. STONE: Anyway, okay. So just keep 17 that in the back of our mind. 18 19 And then secondly yesterday we heard 20 from Letty and Nikki, and they kind of mentioned the 21 possibility for needing to know more about some 22 baseline inventory of fishes lineages (ph) in the 23 Seward Peninsula. And that PIN of itself could almost 24 encapsulate some of what you're talking about, Mr. 25 Gray. However, again I think having a priority 26 information need that's specific in nature and that 27 identifies the rivers and species of concern is a good 28 way to approach this, because you're going to get at 29 the heart of your concern. 30 31 Thank you. 32 33 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I'm trying to think 34 back about -- if there was an inventory of fish on the 35 north side of the Seward Peninsula in the past, or some 36 documentation towards that. 37 38 Does anybody in here recall any of 39 that. 40 41 (No comments) 42 43 CHAIRMAN GREEN: No. There were..... 44 45 MR. GRAY: You know, the -- one of the 46 answers that I got years ago had something to do with 47 rivers and I want to say inventory. I don't recall. 48 But there was nothing like he's talking about, a 49 project now. There was nothing talked about project or 50

Page 245 1 -- you know, I've always hit a brick wall when I talk 2 about Fish River, and I want some research done 3 especially silver salmon. Silvers -- you know, the 4 pinks come in, they're on a two-year cycle, and we've 5 got lots of pinks. Pinks aren't a fish of concern so 6 to speak. But silvers have been a fish of concern. I 7 mean, they've shut down subsistence fishing on silvers, 8 so we need to understand it better. 9 10 But you're right, Louis. I think there 11 was -- I'm not -- there was something, and I don't 12 remember what it was. It was a catalog issue or 13 something. And maybe, Carl, maybe you remember. I 14 don't know if you've been around that long. 15 16 Anyway, irregardless, to me it's very, 17 very important that we get silvers kind of highlighted, 18 because there's so many user groups that use this 19 thing, and there isn't enough silvers to go around, and 20 we don't understand the -- you know, we talked about 21 beavers the other day. And I brought up the fact that 22 I was moose hunting and there was 14 beaver dams on a 23 creek. How good is that for silver salmon, you know. 24 So we don't understand all the answers people think 25 they have. 26 27 Anyway, I'm going to shut up, because I 28 don't want the silvers to come off the list. 29 30 CHAIRMAN GREEN: He's going to punish 31 you and take silvers off the list. 32 33 (Laughter) 34 35 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Thank you, 36 Tommy. 37 38 So I was going to say -- I was going to 39 bring up the inventory and baseline data on the major 40 rivers of the northern Seward Peninsula tied to 41 subsistence use. May we go to like the Village of 42 Shishmaref, which is really located on that side where 43 there is the preserve, Bering Land Bridge. I kind of 44 think there is some catalog of inventory of certain 45 fish stocks, but that seemed to be like it was just 46 like whitefish or something, you know, those types of 47 species that were in river year around. But I don't 48 know if there's anything about salmon there. And it 49 would seem to be that we should try to find something 50

Page 246 1 that the people in the Shishmaref Village and that area 2 are inclined to live off of up there. 3 4 The other one would be the Yup'ik River 5 chum salmon. And that's in the Imuruk Basin area. I 6 know there's never been any -- there's no counting 7 towers, there's no association with Fish and Game up 8 there. And if I recall, there is a fall run there. 9 You know, you've got two, summer run, fall run, so it's 10 something to get some documentation through a study on 11 that to know what kind of abundance is there for 12 baseline. 13 14 And those are my two thoughts on those 15 two points, those PINs. 16 17 Leland. 18 19 MR. OYOUMICK: Yeah, Leland Oyoumick 20 here with a question for Jarred. I work for the school 21 district before I retired, and then I worked for the 22 housing authority, and I traveled to all these places 23 that people here on the Board are sitting. 24 25 The one place I wanted to try fishing 26 was in the Fish River, because it's named the Fish 27 River. Lo and behold, the first fish I got was a pike. 28 Now, might that have something to do with that silver 29 salmon problem, because I think pike are a predator of 30 some kind. You know, they go after most everything I 31 guess. 32 33 CHAIRMAN GREEN: There's two-legged 34 pike and floating obstacles in the river, too, with 35 fishing poles. So, yeah, a good point to be made 36 there. 37 38 Tommy, you've got another additional or 39 is it Elmer? I thought you said Tom. Elmer, go ahead. 40 41 MR. SEETOT: Elmer Seetot, Brevig 42 Mission. You mentioned something about Agiapuk River. 43 When the fish go up there to spawn, after they spawn, 44 both the chum and the humpbacks, humpies, like in the 45 first part of September or after that time, you know, 46 there's so much fish in the river that, you know, it 47 produces foam on top of the water and then you could 48 smell the fish decaying pretty much on the upper sides 49 of the Agiapuk River. Many people in the past, maybe 50

Page 247 1 about 20 years go, went up there to catch chum salmon, 2 because they had lost their fat and they were very good 3 for drying. Nowadays you rarely see anyone going up 4 there chumming, or going after chum. Why? Because 5 many of the residents in Teller and Brevig have pretty 6 much switched over to red salmon or sockeye. And I 7 would say that that's what they pretty much kind of go 8 for, other than humpies for drying. So the chum are 9 still harvested along the shorelines or along the 10 Kamecha (ph) Teller Bridge, but we rarely see anyone go 11 up and catch in big numbers chum salmon, so they're -- 12 after they spawn, you know, they produce so much smell 13 that we quick using the water around, so we have to 14 bring our own water during those times. And in that 15 time, during the past five years, I have seen algae 16 form on the bottom of the rivers, which never really -- 17 I really didn't see all the way to the headwaters of 18 the Agiapuk during my time there, but I have started to 19 see that algae, you know, form. One is that -- I think 20 we've got too little rainfall in the spring and summer 21 months, and with that low water with the sun beating 22 down, you know, it produces algae, and then I see that 23 very rampant in and around the community of Brevig. 24 Standing water will produce algae. So I've seen that. 25 So I think our temperature have gone up a little bit 26 over the past years, but we still do see a majority of 27 salmon. Chum salmon use Agiapuk River to spawn. 28 29 Thank you. 30 31 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Elmer. 32 33 Do you have a response. 34 35 MR. STONE: I just wanted to add one 36 other thing that I just remembered was Tom Gray had 37 mentioned a little bit about -- and you had also 38 mentioned, too, a little bit about the anadromous fish 39 catalog. And that goes back to the second -- or I 40 guess maybe first inventory and baseline data of fish 41 assemblages. And I'm not sure on how complete that 42 catalog is for the Seward Peninsula. 43 44 And in regards to climate change and in 45 regards to it, you know, at the future years, really 46 having baseline data is going to be paramount just to 47 monitor those changes. 48 49 So, you know, when I'm looking at this 50

Page 248 1 list, I kind of see three PINs maybe that I've kind of 2 heard from you, and I just want to walk through those, 3 make sure I'm getting them correct. And then from 4 there we can choose to add or modify them any way you 5 see fit. And then eventually vote on these. 6 7 So with the first one, inventory and 8 baseline data of fish assemblages in major rivers of 9 northern Seward Peninsula tied to subsistence use. And 10 I would add to this and say, including Shishmaref. 11 12 The second would be Agiapuk, and I'm 13 not sure if I'm saying that right. Agiapuk River chum 14 salmon abundance. 15 16 MR. SEETOT: Agiapuk. 17 18 MR. STONE: Agiapuk. 19 20 MR. SEETOT: They're very abundant 21 there, but I guess you just need to get..... 22 23 MR. GRAY: You know, I think you need 24 to -- if you're going to look at Agiapuk, it seems to 25 me there's a summer run and a fall run. And I've been 26 up there, you know, first part of October moose 27 hunting, and there's brand new shiny dog salmon up 28 there. Is that the run you want to look at, or do you 29 want to just look at all of them. 30 31 CHAIRMAN GREEN: The idea was to 32 establish baseline there. I don't think there's ever 33 been any work done there. And that's in the Federal 34 lands. 35 36 Brandon. 37 38 MR. AHMASUK: Yeah, thank you, Mr. 39 Chair. Brandon Ahmasuk. 40 41 I heard the comment earlier about the 42 anadromous body water catalog, not knowing how complete 43 it is. I am going to say that it is incomplete. So, 44 for instance, in the Nome area, you would think that it 45 would be listed, but it's not. Safety Sound/Bonanza 46 Channel is not listed in the anadromous body water 47 catalog. So I'm just bringing that up, because what I 48 heard was you don't know how complete the list is. My 49 understanding, Fish and Game is working on it, but 50

Page 249 1 currently it is not listed. And whatever other bodies 2 of water aren't listed, I don't even know. So I'm just 3 bringing that up for reference. It's also my 4 understanding anybody can nominate a body of water in 5 the anadromous body of water catalog. 6 7 Thank you. 8 9 CHAIRMAN GREEN: And so go ahead. 10 11 MR. STONE: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and 12 through the Council. So going back to this first one, 13 inventory and baseline data of fish assemblages in 14 major rivers of northern Seward Peninsula tied to 15 subsistence use, including Shishmaref. Maybe what we 16 might add to that is with the intent of adding to the 17 anadromous fish catalog that ADF&G manages. 18 19 Lastly, the third priority information 20 need that I've heard from you is abundance estimates 21 for coho salmon on the Pargon, Boston, and Wagon Wheel 22 Rivers. And given the previous years with shutdowns of 23 silver salmon fishing on these rivers, they are a 24 species of concern. And without knowing abundance 25 levels of these three rivers, maybe shutdowns would be 26 unwarranted. 27 28 So if I've heard correctly, those are 29 the three priority information needs that I've 30 identified here for you today. 31 32 Thank you. 33 34 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I think that's a 35 complete wording of each one of those three in my book. 36 37 Council, anybody else have any to add. 38 39 Elmer. 40 41 MR. SEETOT: You might be able to check 42 on Kawerak Natural Resources, too. I think they did 43 some studies in and around that area during the past 44 years, but I'm not really sure what projects that they 45 were kind of going after. 46 47 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks, Elmer. So 48 this is an action item, folks, listing our fish 49 resource priority information needs. 50

Page 250 1 So do you have something to add? 2 3 MR. KIRK: No. 4 5 MR. GRAY: So I will. I'll move to 6 make these priorities our priority list. 7 8 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Is there a second. 9 10 MR. KIRK: Second. 11 12 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Discussion. 13 14 (No comments) 15 16 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Call for the question. 17 18 MR. GRAY: Question. 19 20 CHAIRMAN GREEN: All those in favor of 21 listing these three as our PIN say aye. 22 23 IN UNISON: Aye. 24 25 CHAIRMAN GREEN: All those against, 26 same sign. 27 28 (No negative votes) 29 30 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Hearing none. There's 31 your assignment if you so choose. (Hums) Couldn't 32 pass it up. All right. So there we go. We got that 33 action taken care of. 34 35 Now, Carl, are we at future meetings. 36 37 Thanks, Jarred. 38 39 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 40 No, we still need to do the identifying issues for the 41 annual report. Your briefing for the annual -- just 42 the general briefing on what to include on the annual 43 report can be found on Page 143 of your meeting book. 44 45 CHAIRMAN GREEN: What page? 46 47 MR. JOHNSON: Page 143. That's just a 48 general briefing on what the annual reports are for, 49 what to include in them. 50

Page 251 1 And, you know, a quick overview, 2 essentially the annual report is your opportunity to 3 inform the Federal Subsistence Board of your 4 anticipated needs and issues related to fish and 5 wildlife, subsistence resources in your region. 6 Considered a way to kind of express to them concerns, 7 recommendations, identifying issues that fall outside 8 of the regulatory cycle, because, you know, if you want 9 to change a moose season, for example, you can just 10 submit a regulatory proposal for that. And usually 11 what we like to encourage you to do is if you to do is 12 if you identify an issue that's a concern, submit and 13 ask, you know, let the Board know what it is you would 14 like them to do about it. Either send a letter, you 15 know, if it's something related to the Bering Sea by- 16 catch, have them send a letter to the Secretary of 17 Commerce who oversees the North Pacific Fisheries 18 Management Council. Or ask them to do something, or if 19 you just want to inform them of something and not ask 20 them to do something, just say, this is just for your 21 information. 22 23 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Council, do anybody 24 here have a comment towards this? We kind of knocked 25 down this other deal with the FRMP of importance of 26 those three topics. 27 28 So this report content, when is that 29 due. 30 31 MR. JOHNSON: Well, ideally we like to 32 at least have the Council just identify the general 33 issues at this meeting so that in your winter meeting 34 your Council coordinator can come to you with a draft 35 of the annual report for you to actually review the 36 language, make any changes to it at that time. And so 37 here we can at least outline the general issues and you 38 can see the details in writing at your winter meeting. 39 40 CHAIRMAN GREEN: It seemed like every 41 issue we came up with we pounded to the table and 42 discussed it to pieces. We talked about moose here, 43 22A, 22E. We talked about Chinook salmon. We had 44 public testimony about the by-catch in the Bering Sea 45 on Chinook salmon. I just kind of caught here on my 46 heels here trying to figure out what's important here. 47 48 Tommy, go ahead. 49 50

Page 252 1 MR. GRAY: You know, something that 2 came before this Board here and didn't get a good 3 answer, that maybe the big Board might struggle with, 4 is the issue of this moose hunting these guys brought 5 where the moose migrate into this other area, and we 6 have hunting guides in a sense in that migration path 7 that may be hindering this thing, and how can one group 8 of people in a depressed moose area benefit from that 9 migration coming from an area that has a lot of moose, 10 and how do we fix that. I mean, throw that to the big 11 Board as an issue. Maybe that's an issue we can throw 12 out there. I don't know. 13 14 You know, usually the Board wants to 15 deal with black and white issues. This is a real gray 16 issue that everybody's going to want to sidestep, 17 including the big Board. But it's a resource that uses 18 both areas, a depressed area and a high moose area, and 19 how can we help our clientele, our subsistence users 20 capitalize and use both those -- you know, best use 21 that resource. I feel sorry for these guys in 22 Unalakleet, because they didn't get a good answer from 23 us. 24 25 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Yeah. And the Chinook 26 salmon by-catch in the Bering Sea was another issue. I 27 mean, these kings have been kept down for a long time 28 here. They're still not able to subsist on them, are 29 they, here? I don't think so. Yeah. I mean, that's 30 -- that is -- that remains an issue. That's something 31 that we should keep the heat under, because it's an 32 important topic for here. It's not just here. It will 33 carry over to the bigger rivers like the Kuskokwim and 34 the Yukon. 35 36 I mean, they're having bad issues with 37 the Chinook runs, too, but ours are also -- not just 38 Chinook, but chum salmon. Our chum salmon numbers 39 aren't up over there in northern Norton Sound. Our 40 pink numbers are way overbearing, but still our chum 41 salmon aren't balanced out yet. 42 43 So I think that's still something that 44 we should be addressing yet to the Board is the by- 45 catch of Chinook salmon and chum salmon in the Bering 46 Sea. 47 48 So we've got that moose issue in 49 21E/22A. It seems like doesn't it border on 18, too? 50

Page 253 1 Isn't 18 playing there? Yeah. On the lower down 2 towards Ron's country down there. So there would be 3 some way to try to deal with that conflict of the user 4 groups in there, and subsistence is our name of the 5 game, so I think it's important for us to tap that. 6 7 Is there anything else that I'm missing 8 that we've had in the last couple of days discussed 9 that might need to be written about to the Subsistence 10 Board. Full Board. 11 12 Brandon. 13 14 MR. AHMASUK: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. 15 Chair. Brandon Ahmasuk. 16 17 Something we've talked about is bears, 18 and, yes, myself, I'm one of the guys that helped push 19 those bear proposals, but I also agree with Mr. Gray 20 that we need bear surveys just to show how many are out 21 there exactly. Is it way over what we're actually 22 seeing? Is there less than what we think there is, but 23 also again agreeing with Mr. Gray, how do you manage a 24 resource if you don't know what the population status 25 is. So that's something else that I'd like to see is a 26 bear survey for the Seward Peninsula. 27 28 Thanks. 29 30 CHAIRMAN GREEN: That could be -- 31 that's a good one, too. I'm not worried about beavers. 32 33 (Laughter) 34 35 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I just wanted to see 36 what somebody was going to say. I don't like them 37 either. They taste good, but there's too many of them. 38 39 Anyway, I was just looking at that 40 chart up there again, and, you know, there's a lot 41 white there, which means that's State lands. I think 42 we covered most of what we could do on the Federal 43 side. 44 45 What do you have, Tom. 46 47 MR. GRAY: So, you know, and I agree 48 bears are an issue; but more importantly I think 49 something's happened in the last 10 years on the Seward 50

Page 254 1 Peninsula. And, you know, I look at my hurdles I had 2 with the reindeer herd before I got wiped out. And it 3 was wolf problems. I feel wolves are ten times the 4 predator than the bear is. And something needs to be 5 done about the wolf problem. I mean, they've opened it 6 up to you can kill as many wolves as you want 7 basically, and we still have a wolf problem. So where 8 do we go from here. 9 10 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I was approached by 11 Ted Spraker, the Board of Game Chairman, about a year 12 and a half ago, and he wanted to talk about wolf 13 predation, and I said, well, wolves and bears are kind 14 of one and the same. And he wants to find some way to 15 deal with wolves. I never did get anything other than 16 trying to get -- make it liberal to take them. I don't 17 know if there was aerial -- you know, consideration of 18 aerial hunting of wolves, but, I mean, that's happened 19 in the past on the Seward Peninsula. It was very 20 effective. So do we want to have that conversation. 21 22 (No comments) 23 24 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I know it's -- I'm 25 just looking at that chart again, and there's a lot of 26 State land there. 27 28 Go ahead, Carl. 29 30 MR. JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. Chair. Carl 31 Johnson, OSM. 32 33 If you recall in the past, your Council 34 coordinator, Karen, has kind of given you an overall 35 briefing on the predator management policy and what are 36 the options. And one of the options is you can submit 37 state proposals to the Board of Game, either just 38 general increased harvest limit proposals, or submit a 39 proposal to specifically invoke the intensive 40 management law regarding wolves. So you have options 41 to participate in the State side if you would like to 42 pursue that, so as far as the white part of the map as 43 you were saying, that doesn't help as much with the 44 annual report, but -- as far as action goes. 45 46 Although it still is worthwhile to 47 mention to the Board, because, again, you know, 48 identifying current issues regarding wildlife resources 49 that are important to subsistence in your region. So 50

Page 255 1 you can still say there needs to be an assessment of 2 the wolf population and the management strategy, 3 understanding the Board won't do anything about it, but 4 you can say that, you know, you as a Council will, you 5 know, seek to pursue whatever options are appropriate 6 through the State process, and just kind of letting 7 them know this is a concern you have and what you plan, 8 you know, to do about it. 9 10 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks for that 11 clarification of what have the options of doing. As a 12 body, we do have that option to take part in the 13 proposal side of State management issues. So maybe 14 that's something we need to look into at the next 15 meeting. We need to find out what the cycle is, too. 16 The wildlife cycle for wolves. I would say we'd want 17 to include bears in that, too, when make the proposals. 18 I guess that's an important item, too, to at least let 19 them know, head's up where we probably will be going 20 with this. 21 22 Tommy. 23 24 MR. GRAY: So I think Brandon's idea of 25 surveying the bears is a great idea. I really support 26 that, because it's like the blind leading the blind 27 right now. Nobody understands what's going on, and we 28 can all cry wolf or bear, whatever, but unless we know 29 what the resource is doing, we're managing it in the 30 blind. 31 32 The wolf issue is -- you know, those of 33 us that are out in the country and involved out in the 34 country, wolves has become the silent predator so to 35 speak. Wolves is what bears were like 10 years ago. 36 Wolves are -- you know, I'm out there all the time, so 37 I've actually gone to Fish and Game and asked them if I 38 can kill little baby wolves when the season's open. 39 Because they're so -- they're deadly. And I personally 40 think bears are getting repercussions from what wolves 41 are doing. So anyway I really feel wolves -- you know, 42 the State has done as much as they can to open it up to 43 kill wolves, but we need to again understand what that 44 resource is and figure out how to manage it. 45 46 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So it's proper to give 47 them a head's up, and then we'll be considering some 48 proposals to the State Board of Game, and potentially 49 the Board of Fish if there's something in there that we 50

Page 256 1 see. 2 3 Elmer. 4 5 MR. SEETOT: With some of these 6 meetings here, I bring some of these issues out to our 7 community, or to Teller, and wolves have been number 1 8 priority with me I guess back home, one that provides 9 income for those that do hunt fur-bearing animals. 10 Another is that western part of Seward Peninsula is 11 pretty -- it's non-Federal land, and I'm not really too 12 sure how far this Council can go with being -- with the 13 land in and around these communities. Like I said in 14 previous meetings, if I see increasing wolves in my 15 area, I'll go after them, whether the State likes it or 16 not. Those are the animals that they're chasing my 17 animals away from my proximity to the community. If I 18 see a problem, then I will go after them. Not only me, 19 but young hunters in and around our area. 20 21 I think a majority of the wolves 22 harvested are ones that are following the Western 23 Arctic Caribou herd to their winter and calving 24 grounds. And I mention also at least four different 25 wolf packs going on the eastern shores of Imuruk Basin 26 going down to check on the caribou -- or the reindeer 27 herd that is still there in and around Teller. 28 29 So whenever these problems arise, I 30 mention that to my hunters, and they're very 31 opportunistic on fur-bearing animals, but not so much 32 with brown bear. So I remember having meat from brown 33 bears when I was growing up, but that kind of faded out 34 pretty fast as interest for brown bears, or other food 35 availability came into use during the time I was 36 growing up. So for us to talk about brown bears in and 37 around Brevig Mission, that's all it is. Just talk. 38 We just leave the brown bears alone, whether we want to 39 go after them or not, I guess it's just they're the top 40 predators in and around Teller and Brevig, but very 41 little is done, you know, to contain them, other than 42 to say -- or to new time hunters, you know, try and go 43 after them, but like Tom was saying, seeing sows with 44 three cubs or more, so they must be eating good in and 45 around that area. I have seen two sows with three cubs 46 within the past four years, so they must be eating good 47 around there, and then I guess I just to need to inform 48 people in and around Seward Peninsula or around Imuruk 49 Basin that, you know, they are predators that are 50

Page 257 1 living, you know, their freedom away from, you know, 2 terror of the gun, or terror of the snowmachine hunters 3 that go after them. 4 5 Thank you. 6 7 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks, Elmer. There 8 was -- you know, at one point in time there was limited 9 wolves on the Seward Peninsula. There was limited 10 bears. Very few of both species. They'd been 11 eliminated. There was reindeer herds, and the reindeer 12 herders used to contain that. As time went on, we lost 13 our reindeer, wolves moved in in like the mid 90s with 14 the caribou when they came in over on the Seward 15 Peninsula when they expanded their ranges. And they 16 also took reindeer away. So then you eliminated a food 17 source. Bears decided that moose are part of their 18 appetite. Musk ox. Then wolves are in there. Wolves 19 are targeting the same. 20 21 They also, both those bears and wolves 22 are feeding on salmon. So now we've got an over- 23 abundance of pink salmon, so we got really good food 24 sources for these animals in the summertime. And I've 25 seen a sow with five cubs before, and that was, you 26 know, five years ago, 2012, down in the Solomon area. 27 And I've seen a picture with another one. Somebody 28 said there was -- the mother had adopted some orphans, 29 so I don't know whether that's correct or not. 30 31 But again predation is a big issue with 32 our game and our fish. So we should be looking into 33 some effort in here with some proposals to the State of 34 this body. 35 36 I want to find a way to encourage 37 tribes to start fueling the fires of young hunters to 38 go out there and take care of these animals. There's 39 no reason why we couldn't, you know -- ANCSA 40 corporations are land owners. And village 41 corporations, regional corporations. And we have 42 tribes out there that have funding. Tribes get funding 43 to do these types of things. People just need to be 44 aware they should probably be part of the process. 45 It's more than just sitting at this table to be a part 46 of that process. It's getting out there and, like 47 Elmer said, if there's wolves in my country and there's 48 too many, I'm going to go after them. I don't care 49 what anybody thinks. So that brought that comment out 50

Page 258 1 of me with the tribes and village corporations being -- 2 you know, they could be right in the middle of it by 3 funding it. 4 5 Anyway, is there anybody else. 6 7 (No comments) 8 9 CHAIRMAN GREEN: We're done with that. 10 I think that's pretty much what we're going to hammer 11 out, Carl, for, what do we call it, the report. 12 13 We're down to ANILCA presentation. Are 14 we going to..... 15 16 MR. JOHNSON: Yeah, that is correct, 17 Mr. Chair. This was a requested just informational 18 item from the Council to kind of lay out the basis for 19 why there's this dual State/ Federal management system 20 regarding fish and wildlife resources. We could do it 21 today or we could also continue it to the winter 22 meeting. It could be a helpful background discussion 23 before you talk about submitting Federal regulatory 24 proposals to kind of understand how the different 25 regulatory schemes work and interact with each other. 26 So I'll leave that to the Council's discretion. 27 28 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I think we got 29 agreeable here at the table. Consensus says winter, 30 and then that will -- like you said, that will kind of 31 line us up fresh on taking up proposals to the State 32 Board of Fish and Board of Game. 33 34 All right. So that brings us to future 35 dates. Confirming winter of 2019 meeting date and 36 location. Brandon. 37 38 MR. AHMASUK: Kona, Hawaii, that's 39 where I want to go. 40 41 (Laughter) 42 43 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I want to go to 44 Mexico. No, I'm kidding. Si, se or. 45 46 (Laughter) 47 48 MR. JOHNSON: All right. So, Mr. 49 Chair, right now, if you want to look at what you 50

Page 259 1 selected for your winter meeting dates, that's on Page 2 158 in your meeting book. Right now you've got March 3 5th and 6th in Nome. And if you want to confirm that, 4 we can go on then to selecting your fall 2019 meeting 5 dates. 6 7 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Is everybody okay with 8 the 5th of March. 9 10 Tommy. 11 12 MR. GRAY: Yeah. The next week I'm 13 going to be out in the States, so I'm traveling. 14 15 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Go ahead, Brandon. 16 17 MR. AHMASUK: Thank you. Right now I 18 don't have a problem with it, but there's also -- we're 19 probably going to be meeting in Nome is my guess. 20 There's all the Iditarod events, the Iron Dog getting 21 over with. Just to keep that in mind. So there's -- 22 it's a very busy time of year in Nome. That's what I'm 23 getting at. 24 25 Thanks. 26 27 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So the Iditarod, when 28 is it starting this coming year, the 9th or the 2nd. 29 It's the first Saturday. 30 31 MR. JOHNSON: Yeah, it will start -- 32 the ceremonial start is the first Saturday, and then 33 with formal start on the first Sunday, so that would be 34 starting on March 3rd, so unless they get some new 35 super hyped up genetically engineered dogs, they won't 36 get into Nome by March 6th. Mr. Chair. 37 38 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank goodness. So 39 we're okay for that. Iditarod's not going to be 40 affected by our meeting. 41 42 Brandon, go ahead. 43 44 MR. AHMASUK: So I did mention Iron 45 Dog, and that's right in that time frame. It's very 46 busy trying to get hotel rooms for people. It's a 47 very, very busy time of year. So again I'm just 48 throwing that out there. There's other stuff going on 49 besides what's in front of us right here. 50

Page 260 1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Right, but I think 2 Iron Dog's like in February, ain't it. February. 3 4 MR. JOHNSON: Yeah. Mr. Chair. I'm 5 looking on the Iron Dog website right now. The start 6 of the trail class is February 15. The start of the 7 pro class is February 17. The halfway ceremonies in 8 Nome are on February 20. 9 10 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. No 11 interference. And I'm good with March 5th and 6th. 12 13 Okay. 14 15 So now it's the fall meeting. We have 16 to look at the dates. 17 18 MR. JOHNSON: Yeah. Mr. Chair. And 19 the general rule is we can't schedule more than two 20 meeting in any one week. So right now the only week 21 that is blocked out on the schedule is the week of 22 October 7th. Western Interior and Southeast Councils 23 have already selected meeting dates in that week. 24 Otherwise the other weeks are either completely open or 25 have only got one Council scheduled. 26 27 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Do you want to have it 28 after AFN again like we just did. That's what this 29 meeting..... 30 31 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: After AFN. 32 33 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Well, we just had AFN 34 and now we're here. 35 36 MR. GRAY: Usually in my world, like 37 that first week of October would be good. Once I get 38 into November, usually I'm traveling pretty heavy. And 39 this year I get done here, I'm home for about four 40 days, and then I'm traveling until the end of -- or 41 middle of November this year. So the timing for this 42 was good. My suggestion is don't go into November, and 43 I'll work around it somehow. 44 45 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Well, we've got the 46 week of October 21st, and that's the next week after 47 AFN. This one, AFN happened and two days later I was 48 here, so what sayeth the Council. 49 50

Page 261 1 (Pause -- off record conversation -- 2 mics not on) 3 4 CHAIRMAN GREEN: (Indiscernible -- mic 5 not on) what's NS. 6 7 MR. JOHNSON: That's North Slope. Yep. 8 So if you want to stay consistent with this schedule, 9 do a Tuesday and Wednesday, that could be October 22nd 10 and 23rd. 11 12 MR. GRAY: I'm good with the date, 13 October 22nd, October 23rd. Are we in Nome this time? 14 15 (Pause -- off record conversation -- 16 mics not on) 17 18 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Where's Leland. Okay. 19 So now it's where do we want it at. We know when we're 20 going to have it. Nome or Unalakleet. 21 22 MR. GRAY: Nome. 23 24 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Where do you want it 25 at. 26 27 MR. GRAY: Nome. 28 29 SEVERAL COUNCIL MEMBERS: Nome. 30 31 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Brandon. 32 33 MR. AHMASUK: Nome. 34 35 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. So the majority 36 says Nome, so we're there. 37 38 Nome, 22nd, 23rd of October, 2019. 39 Fall. 40 41 (Off record conversations -- mics not 42 on) 43 44 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Correct. 22nd, 23rd 45 of October, Nome, for the fall 2019 meeting. 46 47 Closing comments, we're at that 48 section. Section 13. 49 50

Page 262 1 We'll start with Doug and Elmer. 2 3 MR. KATCHATAG: I want to thank you 4 guys for coming here. Enjoyed having you here. Not 5 bad. 6 7 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks, Doug. 8 9 Elmer. 10 11 MR. SEETOT: Elmer Seetot, Brevig. 12 Occasionally when we schedule meeting other than Nome, 13 you know, sometime we are met with, you know, great 14 enthusiasm, or like what we were doing this morning, 15 trying to get people to focus on the issue that is 16 important to them. 17 18 Anyway, we have to also look at weather 19 changes during over the years. I think like our snow 20 schedule, it's pretty much a month and a half late 21 compared to 30 years ago. I remember first week in 22 September, we already had our ice frozen. 23 24 The other thing is that I'm on 25 retirement, and I have very limited income, and I'm not 26 really too sure how come short term -- why the Council 27 or the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service pretty much gave 28 all our allowance away to where we didn't get any meal 29 allowance or anything like that. So it's pretty hard 30 for some of us to even kind of say, oh, yes, I'll make 31 it to that meeting/no, I won't make it to that meeting. 32 Why? Because at times, you know, we as Natives on this 33 table, we have a different metabolism on food. I think 34 our preferred food is Native food. Sometimes, you 35 know, we eat more than usual these fine processed foods 36 that are being presented at these meetings. So other 37 than people, you know, sharing their bounties 38 throughout the summer, that's very good. But other 39 than that, I didn't get a reason why U.S. Fish and 40 Wildlife Service, you know, decided to withhold all the 41 money that was entailed for meal allowance. Other than 42 that, you know, like I'm being well taken care of, I 43 thank you for that. 44 45 And then on another note, I'm going to 46 another U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service sponsored 47 meeting. 48 49 Thank you very much. 50

Page 263 1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks for your long 2 service, too, Elmer. 1994, that's kind of a ways back. 3 Yeah, he can always say whatever he wants. I don't 4 tell him. 5 6 (Laughter) 7 8 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Boop. 9 10 MR. OYOUMICK: Yeah, I kind of hope 11 people kind of back us up if we try to put a no-fly 12 zone in this area, because those guides, they don't 13 know how lucky they are to get to fly over there and 14 have good weather, and good spots to land, a good place 15 to hunt. And just to see how things would turn out, 16 shut them down for a while and see if our population 17 increases as far as moose. 18 19 And like Jerry mentioned, too, about 20 our Chinook. We call them kings. Anyway, we'd like to 21 much they are gathering on the high seas and throwing 22 them away or what they're doing with them, if anything. 23 And kind of bum without kings, you know. I mean, 24 they're really good to eat. 25 26 I don't have much else to say, but I 27 hope you had a good stay in Unalakleet. 28 29 Thank you. 30 31 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Leland. We 32 always do when we come here. It's good. 33 34 And king salmon is the most nutritious 35 salmon there is by nutrient levels. It's all the way 36 at the top. 37 38 Ron. 39 40 MR. KIRK: Yeah, I'm glad to be here on 41 the second day. Sorry I couldn't make it the first 42 day. I got stuck babysitting. All my wife and 43 daughters took off for medical. 44 45 I enjoyed this meeting. I really wish 46 I could have been here from day one. I hope we have 47 good success on our proposals if we do submit proposals 48 to the higher Board. 49 50

Page 264 1 Thank you. 2 3 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks, Ron. 4 5 We'll go to Tommy. 6 7 MR. GRAY: Good meeting. I hope you 8 all have safe travels home. 9 10 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Than you, Mr. Gray. 11 12 Brandon. 13 14 MR. AHMASUK: Yeah, thank you, Mr. 15 Chair. Yeah, it was a good meeting. There's some 16 stuff we got out on the table. Some of the moose 17 issues I felt were addressed. Other stuff. 18 Information. It was good. 19 20 Thanks to Boop and Doug, thanks for 21 bringing us to Unalakleet. I enjoyed coming down here. 22 It's lots of fun. Thanks to the Service, our Federal 23 partners, you know, helping us get down here as well. 24 It was a very good meeting. 25 26 Thanks. 27 28 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Brandon. 29 30 Oh, I almost forgot myself. 31 32 Okay. 33 34 So, yeah, I thought it was a great 35 meeting. I'm glad we had some participation from the 36 public here. We were able to get an issue out on the 37 table that the local reps here, Doug and Leland, had 38 concerns with. We heard more than we just talked about 39 moose. We also had Jerry here talking about salmon, 40 which is really an important issue. 41 42 I don't know where we went with the 22D 43 remainder moose. I'm kind of foggy on that one, but I 44 thought that was something important that need to be 45 homing in on. 46 47 I think it's time to go. 48 49 So appreciated everybody's company. 50

Page 265 1 And everybody have a safe trip home. Thanks to the 2 Staff and those that waited on the phone for hours 3 while we scrambled around trying to figure out where we 4 were at next. 5 6 I guess I would at this time ask for a 7 motion to adjourn. 8 9 MR. KIRK: So moved. 10 11 MR. AHMASUK: Second. 12 13 CHAIRMAN GREEN: All those in favor say 14 aye. 15 16 IN UNISON: Aye. 17 18 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Against same sign. 19 20 (No negative votes) 21 22 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Aye. I was trying to 23 beat him. I was trying to beat him, but he got in. 24 25 MR. GRAY: You got overruled. 26 27 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Beat me. No, I was 28 kidding. I joke. Thanks. And we're lucky to get a 29 flight out of here today. It's a day ahead. 30 31 (Off record) 32 33 (END OF PROCEEDINGS) 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50

1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ) 4 )ss. 5 STATE OF ALASKA ) 6 7 I, Salena A. Hile, Notary Public in and for the 8 state of Alaska and reporter for Computer Matrix Court 9 Reporters, LLC, do hereby certify: 10 11 THAT the foregoing pages numbered 02 through 12 contain a full, true and correct Transcript of the 13 SEWARD PENINSULA FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL ADVISORY 14 COUNCIL MEETING, VOLUME II taken electronically on the 15 24th day of October at Unalakleet, Alaska; 16 17 THAT the transcript is a true and 18 correct transcript requested to be transcribed and 19 thereafter transcribed by under my direction and 20 reduced to print to the best of our knowledge and 21 ability; 22 23 THAT I am not an employee, attorney, or 24 party interested in any way in this action. 25 26 DATED at Anchorage, Alaska, this 19th 27 day of November 2018. 28 29 30 31 Salena A. Hile 32 Notary Public, State of Alaska 33 My Commission Expires: 09/16/22 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50

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