VINTAGE & MINTAGE

Victoria Numismatic Society Member of the Canadian Numismatic Association.

Victoria Numismatic Society - Established 1955, Incorporated 1962 El Presidante Ian Michael Cheffins Editor Rick Pilotte 386-7738 Email [email protected] Annual membership fees $20.00 V&M Address: Victoria Numismatic Society PO Box 39028 Victoria, BC V8V 4X8 October/November Edition. Next Meeting November 7th 6:45 swapping and 7:30 special Auction and meeting.

Russian I have always liked chemistry and elements and such. One of my favorite books in school was a book that showed all the elements and pictures of each one. My favorite element is Gallium because it is a metal that will melt in your hand. One interesting element is Mercury because it is liquid, but in the north when it gets real cold it will freeze. Once during a prolonged cold snap in the arctic one guy made a pin out of mercury and put it in his hat and every time he got home he would pull it out of his hat, stick it in wood on the outside of the door jam before he went inside. Then when he went out to work he would take it from the door and put it back in his hat. One day he forgot it was in his hat and walked inside the house and the pin melted. By the way I believe mercury freezes at -40 degrees. But this story isn't about mercury or gallium; it's about Platinum so I should just get to it eh?

I've always wondered a bit about Platinum and if it should be worth so much and what good is it. I wondered should platinum coins exist and were they legitimate because platinum seemed so exotic. Then I heard something I thought was fascinating, and ever since I've had an plan to do this story.

Some time ago I overheard...or was told... that had platinum coins in the 1830's. Yeah!!! Platinum coins way back! Wow this was news to me! At the start of doing this newsletter there was some serious problems because of the place I was doing it at...which have been resolved...well for 5 months anyway. Then things will get hectic again. Because of the problems I encountered at the beginning of this month while preparing for this newsletter at the locations available to me, such as not being to copy information to a disc and retrieve it, I decided to do research the old fashioned method by going to the library for research material. I figured I'll just find a book or two read them and summarize what I found. Good idea... except for one problem...they had no books on Russian coinage! Well why would they?

So I went to the massive coin books the library had and found one book that did coins of the world from 1801-1900 which at least had their mintages, and values but little else. I was actually so broke at the time I couldn't even afford to Xerox the page for the illustrations! So I had to rethink this research. So I tried a different tack and decided to look on the internet again at the new Skinner street facility and just print out the research material that way. To save ink I copied just the information to a word document and then printed it out. So consequently I had no idea how much information I had found. So when I printed out the material it turned out to be over 50 pages! So this article is a based on what I find in those 50 odd pages...( pardon me now while I read a bit...) Origins Platinum was used in a small way by the South American Indians about 1000 years ago and there are rumours that even the Egyptians used it, though it's not sure where their platinum would have come from. Europe wasn't aware of the metal until it was found by the conquistadors in Columbia in the 15th century and samples were brought back to Spain from the new world. It was not understood what it was and was referred to as unripe gold or little silver. It was often found just as black heavy sand. It was just something of a curiosity that wasn't much use. If you hammered it you just got hammered powder, if you heated you just got hot black powder, as no furnace could fuse it. It appeared to dissolve in gold but consequently discoloured it and appeared to ruin the gold which was consequently banned in trade by the Spanish authorities. In fact it was eventually just thrown away with the contaminated mercury used in the recovery of gold. The Spaniards actually considered it a nuisance because it interfered with their gold mining activities. Platinum is often found with gold and the reason this is, is these heavy elements do not break down as erosion wears away at the surrounding environment so they settle together as the rest of the stuff is washed away.

It had such a high melting point that it was considered unusable for anything, because at first people didn't think it could melt or fuse. Even when it was brought to Europe no fire succeeded in melting it. The melting point for platinum is 1755 C (3215F). The Europeans played with it and finally in 1751 it was recognized as a new element. I have to think there may be some connection with Nickel here, because nickel was recognized that same years.

In around or just prior to 1783 the problem remained on how to make platinum act like a metal and not a heavy dust. It was found that when heated with arsenic the dust could be fused and then further heating evaporated the arsenic. But the resulting metal was somewhat porous. In 1828 it was discovered that this porous product could be sintered, that is placed under heat and pressure to get a more solid coherent mass.

In 1820 the only place platinum was being produced was in Columbia. Rumours of platinum being found in Russia started to circulate shortly after 1800, but not until 1819 was this confirmed ( one source says 1822) when some was panned with gold in the Urals and it was taken for examination to laboratories in Ekaterinburg. These granules were larger then the ones in Columbia and in some cases nuggets were found. However platinum nuggets are far rarer then gold nugget and never achieve the size of gold nuggets.

Russia has been mining and refining platinum for so long they are the only country in the world with considerable stocks of this rare metal...though some believe this supply is running out. The metal was shipped and stored in St. Petersburg and by 1825 a large stock of the metal existed which was duly noted buy the Russian Government.

They decided to monopolize all platinum dealings unless you got a license and no export of the metal was allowed. This monopoly was easily avoided in the remoter areas and smuggling occurred. If I understand this one source correctly, as it appears to be translated from Russian, it seems that though Columbia had had platinum in production for over 100 years, buy the time it was found in the Urals, that in just 5 years after this discovery, Russia outstripped the total production of Columbia in the previous 100 years, and had amassed 1.5 tons of it! By 1900 Russia output of platinum was 40 times all other countries combined at the time. (Since then South Africa has become the leading producer of platinum placing Russia’s production of it to about 30% of the worlds output.) Russia wasn't just first in making platinum coins; they were first to make crucibles, cups, medals and wire from this stuff. Hmmm! medals! Does anyone know anything about Russian platinum medals? I couldn't find much for looking...but then I had not much incentive as I've got enough material to look through. There was one Russian medal made of part platinum that is rare, being only awarded 20 times from 1943 onward to I think to about Breshnevs time...but that's not very early. The platinum crucible was such a huge boon to chemistry because it allowed extreme heat to be applied with out danger of the chemicals reacting with the crucible or with a charge applied to the chemicals being interfered with by the platinum. Other crucibles melted long before platinum. Graphite crucibles could take extreme heat but consume themselves by reacting with the air. However there is a list of chemicals that should not be heated in platinum. (My chemistry is a bit rusty and I'm doing this by memory so I might make a mistake here. The list only includes the chemical abbreviations). This list includes Hg (mercury) Sn (tin) Pb (Lead) and Bi (Bismuth?)These alloy with platinum. Furthermore C (carbon) Si (Silicon) P (potassium?) and S (sulpher?) make the crucible brittle. Most of the attacks are minimal but platinum is so expensive the crucibles have to be protected.

What do you do with the stuff? In 1827 a Peter G. Sobolevsky developed a refining method for platinum. It's not known exactly his technique, though it is presumed to be similar to the sintering process mentioned above. With a way finally available to process the metal and the seeming abundance of it in Russian storage (about 1.5 tonnes) and it's availability from the various regions around Russia (including Siberia) the minister of finance (Count Igor F. Kankrin) suggested to Tsar Nicholas I the use of platinum for coinage. Kankrin was actually warned against using platinum for coinage by a German Naturalist Alexander von Humboldt who knew about the Columbian platinum. Because of the availability of platinum there it would be hard to control platinum values and prevent depreciation as well as counterfeiting. This warning may have eventually become a factor in the ending of the platinum coinage.

Nevertheless Kankrin ignored the warnings and the decision was made in April 1828 to issued the worlds first platinum coinage dated 1828 with a three rouble platinum coin. For some reason one or two sources insist the first platinum coinage was struck in 1824 in denominations I've not yet found (1,2 and 4 Ducats [3 ,5 and 12 rubles spelted without the "o") ] Due to time constraints I've not been able to verify this, thus for now I assume the 1828 date is correct, though there may be another section in the Russian coinage part of the book I missed. There are so many coins in that section it was difficult to find the ones I did, and initially I only found the 6 and 12 rouble denominations. Later research made me aware that there was a 3 rouble denomination as well...the denomination that was first issued. So I assume there happens to be two errors in the source; them being 1824 instead of 1828 and 3, 5 and 12 roubles instead of 3, 6 and 12 rouble denominations. And indeed this makes sense because 2 ducats is double 1 ducat therefore 6 and not 5 roubles is double 3 roubles.)

The following year 6 rouble coins were issued and a year after that 12 rouble coins were issued. The 12 rouble coin being the same size (?) as a Russian was 41.41 grams whereas the silver coin was 18 grams. Since the cost of making that amount of platinum was 5.2 times more then that of silver the denomination was picked because of this ratio. Thus we see platinum’s value was originally deduced and pegged merely on the cost of production in comparison to silver, so it appears the originally value of platinum was 5.2 times the value of silver. The value had nothing to do with the scarcity or demand for the metal, partly because there was no demand for it, other then for experimental purposes. The logic behind these apparently odd denominations was something to do with the difficulty of the process of obtaining reasonably pure platinum. Indeed platinum wasn't even separated from all 5 other sister elements successfully until, about 1844, around the end of the run.

There may be another error somewhere in the material. Another source says the platinum was deemed to be worth 3 times the value of gold by weight. ( This may have originally have meant to be read 1/3 the value of gold) Traditionally as I understand it (prior to this century) gold has been worth 7 times the value of silver. Unless silver and gold were closer in value in Russia I have to think there is some error in this research material. If platinum was worth 5.2 times that of silver and gold was worth 7 times that of silver that would mean the gold was worth more than the platinum according to these sources. And again unfortunately due to time constraints I am unable to weed out the error. However another source says that in 1860 platinum in U.S.A. was worth 1/3 that of gold by weight, so perhaps these statements are indeed correct, and the error may be as deduced and was originally have meant to be read 1/3 the value of gold similar to the value of platinum in the states in the 1860's.

The circulation of these coins continued until 1845. Although when I first heard about these coins I was told they were purely for some sort of curiosity and not intended for circulation it has become clear that they were indeed in circulation. Some show up in lower grades and as you'll see they, particularly the 3 rouble denomination, were minted in significant quantities. They however were not popular probably due to their dull nature and paled when compared to Gold silver and even .

Contrary to popular belief platinum is not a shiny silvery metal, but is more of a grey colour, not exactly something you would consider for jewelry based on it's looks. However people seem to like rare metals anyway, and apparently it brings out the shine in diamonds like no other metal. One of the possible reasons Russia ended the issuance of platinum coins is a panic in the minister of finance. By 1840 Russia had amassed a total of 3.4 tons of the metal, but suddenly the government got panicky in 1845 and withdrew the coins from circulation and indeed recalled them all. One of the considered reasons for this panic is it is believed that what the ministers of finance feared was occurring, was they thought people outside the country were making forgeries and bringing them in the country because platinum was being made cheaper outside of Russia. If this is indeed the reason, it seems the finance ministers were simply paranoid because not one such forgery was ever unearthed. However this reason is unconfirmed.

Another possible reason was because platinum was increasing in demand outside of Russia and thus it was becoming more valuable. I find this odd. This apparently Russian writer on platinum used two possible explanations for the withdrawing of platinum from circulation, and both reasons contradict each other, one it was cheaper outside, and the other it was in more demand thus more expensive. How is it he doesn't know whether platinum was more or less valuable outside Russia at the time when the coins were being produced in Russia? Is information that muddled behind that iron curtain? However he did favour the latter reason. But as we've seen in 1860 platinum was still worth 1/3 that of gold in U.S.A. It's been noted that the attempt of the Russian government to withdraw the platinum coins from circulation was "ineffective". Whatever the reason, after the minting of the platinum coins ended, platinum production In Russia fell to about 5% of it's previous output. Since Russia seemed to have little use for the metal most of it's stock was sold to other countries. One source says that in 1967 Britain bought Russia’s entire reserve, more then 16 tons! Whatever the reasons were for Russia ceasing the issuance of platinum coins was, those reasons obviously dissipated because within about 40 years they were making substantial numbers of reissued platinum coins with the dates from 1828-1945. Possibly they were minted for collectors as I'm not aware of them being used again for coinage. This may be the reason for some confusion as to the legitimacy of the coins used for circulation. It seems the ending of platinum coins may have another reason that no one seems to have touched on. In 1843 Russia started issuing bank notes, though they were not popular in Georgia.

How pure? The sources I'm finding seem somewhat add odds as to the exact content of the coins. One source says they were 68 parts "Pure Urals platinum" and nine parts gold making them 88.3 % platinum. Another source says the Russian coins were made from an alloy that 75% platinum by weight and refined to technically pure platinum powder.( but that may mean "pure" platinum) Yet another source says the coins were 97% platinum, 1.2% , .5% rhodium, and .25% , with trace bits of copper and iron. One analysis of the platinum powder states it contained additional material such as gold, copper iron and the five other platinum relatives namely Iridium, Palladium and Rhodium, Osmium and Ruthinium. Because of the impurity of the platinum, the coins were brittle, but Faraday gave credit to the "Russian master" for being able to make platinum coins at all, especially since it wasn't pure. If platinum is free of iridium it can be drawn into a very fine wire like gold and silver. Genuine platinum Russian roubles can contain up to "4 weight percent"...I assume that means 4% of the weight in iron. Indeed some of these cons display reaction to a magnet. In fact it seems the ones that don't are later Russian reproductions termed "Novodels" which were minted in Russia around the late 19th century until 1890. (one source says they may have been mined up to the WWI. These Novodels usually use a superior grade of platinum, though some of the sources hint that even these are hard to distinguish from their originals as they were minted over a period of 18 years and technology improved over this time in the platinum refining process; that or the ability to work with less pure metal was improved negating the necessity to purify the metal as stringently. The amount of impurities appears to vary from coin to coin. One thing that shows up in these Russian platinum roubles at high magnification is the porous natures of the coins. As far as I can decipher these coins were made from pressed and folded platinum sintered powder.

Platinum slowly becomes important Uses for platinum were at first understandably limited. In fact it was thought at first to be a useless metal. Oddly it seems one of the first uses found for the metal was these Russian roubles. Other uses are of course jewelry which takes up a large percentage of the total platinum available for use. Which is odd because apparently by some sources it's something of a dull grey metal. It's used in dental alloys, electrical and chemical industries. It's been used in 1784 to make crucibles to heat high quality glass in because it can take such high heat....and it is still being used for this purpose today. The crucibles are extremely expensive but the cost is felt to be justified because it allows high quality glass to be made for microscopes , binoculars, telescopes and other optical instruments. I'm not sure at this point if the flasks or cauldrons are pure platinum though because in alloy with some metals the melting temperature actually rises about 30%. Pure platinum melts at 3,215 F, but when combined with it's five sisters they create an alloy that wont melt until up to 4000 degrees. Crucibles are also needed to produce flat screen televisions and lap top computers. It helps make the very high quality glass needed for liquid crystal displays.

There is a anti cancer drug that contains platinum (Cisplatin). It is used in mufflers as a catalytic converter. I'm still trying to figure out what this aspect of platinum is all about. For some reason platinum actually helps purify hydrogen. A recent finding for a use of platinum is in thermocouples which enables the ability to measure temperatures with exceedingly high accuracy. Platinum is used in the petrolium industry and when separating crude oil, the process that uses platinum is the most environmentally friendly. Furthermore platinum has a unique ability to control and remove harmful engine emission byproducts. On top of this, fuel cell power plants used in electric cars could substantially increase platinum demand because these cells use platinum to catalyze a chemical reaction using hydrogen reaction that creates electrical energy but creates no harmful emissions.

Though catalyzing is one of most well known properties of platinum stupid me still doesn't understand this process or the word...though I think I have a clue. One source says platinum and palladium are excellent catalysts for hydrogen reactions. It then goes on to say that Palladium absorbs 900 times its own volume of hydrogen at room temperature, and releases the hydrogen when heated. (Presumably platinum does an even better job...the source doesn't say as it seems to get sidetracked)

Checking up to find out exactly what "catalyst" means in a 4th edition revised 1946 Oxford dictionary and corrected up to 1964. I found it doesn't contain the word "catalyst". Fortunately the house has another reference source. The world book encyclopedia says catalysis is a process where a substance increases the speed of a chemical reaction without being consumed in the reaction and a material that does this is called a catalyst. It gives a great example of an catalytic reaction. Oxygen atom (O) and ozone (O3) slowly react to create two molecules of normal oxygen (O2). But when Nitric Oxide (NO) is let loose in an environment with lots of O and O3, a rapid two step reaction takes place. First the NO combines with the O to make nitrogen dioxide (NO2) then this NO2 reacts with O3 and forms two molecules of oxygen (O2) and the same amount of NO. Once the Nitrci Oxide is reformed it is free to start the process again. (This is why fluorocarbons are such a concern. When released into the upper atmosphere they attack the ozone breaking it down then the resulting molecules rereact with another element and start the process over again. ) Platinum mixed with palladium in mufflers does this reaction on carbon monoxide (CO) converting it to to carbon dioxide (CO2) and water vapour (H2O). However if there is lead or phosphorus in the fuel they block the reaction points causing the catalyst to become ineffective. Isn't chemistry fun!

Platinum is hypoallergenic and thus is popular in jewelry for people that otherwise suffer allergic reactions to other metals. Platinum is also used to obtain higher octane numbers in fuel. And because lead somehow blocks platinum’s ability to catalyze things lead was taken out of gasoline! Yeah this was the main reason fuel became unleaded! Indeed because all of these and other things platinum is called the "environmental metal". Furthermore if not for platinum’s use in jet airliners catalyzing the ozone in the air, people would get sick in high altitude flights. Somehow platinum was involved in the invention of the normal match; though the article isn't clear how. The world Cup soccer trophy is made of platinum. Platinum is almost as ductile as gold; one gram of it can be stretched into a wire over 2000 meters long. It's also used on spark plugs.

Who makes it and how much Principal producers of platinum are South Africa and Russia and surprisingly . Though Russia was the world’s foremost producer of platinum until the first WW, in 1930 Canada took over the top spot! (One source says this occurred sometime after 1935) After WWII South Africa took over top spot and retains it to this day. (Again another discrepancy in the material. One source says that presently or only recently Canada was still in first place due to the large amounts of platinum in the nickel deposits pulled out as a byproduct) Canada produces quite a bit of it as a byproduct of nickel production...that's some byproduct! One ounce of platinum is procured for ever tonne of Nickel...seems like such a small ratio I can't understand how we could be such a major producer of platinum, though undoubtedly we produce it in other ways.

Due to the unstable nature of Russia, platinum often fluctuates in value, and a good deal of uncertainty exists in this Russian export. South Africa and Russia account for about 90% of the world’s supply of platinum. Platinum is the rarest of the precious metals thus it’s high price. Total annual production is about 7 million ounces. That sounds like a lot, but silver production is at 416 million ounces and gold is at 76 million ounces. Also because of platinum’s density the actual volume of platinum is extraordinarily small. All the gold ever produced would fill a tennis court up to three meters high (nearly ten feet) All the platinum produced would barely fill a 25 cubic foot shipping crate they ship automobiles in (that must be a mistake meant to be 25 cubic meters) ...yet another source uses the same dimensions saying that all the platinum ever produced wouldn't fill a room measuring 25 cubic feet. Heck a closet is bigger then 25 cubic feet!...so something is screwy here. Either they may be saying square feet ( which would be a room 5 feet by 5 feet...hardly a room at all, or they mean 25 cubic meters which might be about the volume of an actual room. (An 8 foot by 8 foot by 8 foot room would be about 32 cubic yards...which seems more in line with these calculations. You might think with all the platinum being produced in the world that surely it would take up more space then this, but a six inch cube of platinum weighs as much as an average man!

At one time platinum was actually considered as a potential backing for international , but obviously any thought of that has been abandoned. We all know gold and silver are doing extremely well but little attention is given to platinum. In 1920 Platinum was considered worth 8 times that of gold by weight. In 1990 platinum was worth $500 a troy ounce. It appears to have moved considerably since then. Though these figures are old (2000) gold has increased 120% and silver 150%, but platinum increased 190 % over the same period.

Due to distinctive characteristics of platinum deposits in nature, geologists feel it is unlikely new significant source of this metal will be found (Might I remind you though that with glaciers melting around the planet new mother lodes of valuable metals are in fact being found. In the Rockies, if I recall correctly a copper vein was found that exceeded any known copper vein in history. I may have the metal wrong it could be silver or gold too...I don't remember) One thing that also makes platinum difficult to maintain in stock is not all of it can be recycled. Indeed much (over 50%) of it is destroyed (made irretrievable) in industrial applications. Approximately 30% of items manufactured either use or contain platinum in the items themselves or in production.

Russia was not only the first country to ever make platinum coins, they were the ONLY country to make them for well over 100 years! It wasn't until 1966 that anyone else issued platinum coins (Bhutan). In 1973 Israel issued a 25th anniversary medal in platinum and 1975 saw the Isle of Man issue the first platinum . This is one area where we actually beat the Americans to the punch. For nearly ten years we and had platinum coins before USA got into the act in 1997.

When is a forgery a forgery One thing that is common with the rare Russian Platinum rubles is tests to see if they are forgeries. But this is fairly easily overcome because the platinum used in these coins was fairly impure and the composition of these coins was unique. More obvious fake are distinguishable to modern techniques.

In the 19th century counterfeiters alloyed platinum with copper to get an alloy of the same density as gold, which was then gold plated. These were effective counterfeits, but became uneconomic when the price of platinum rose.

Russian platinum had a high iridium content making it hard to work, and osmium impurities made it toxic to refine. But these tracer elements characterize the original Russian platinum coins somewhat from the later reproductions and are distinct characteristics compared to modern fakes. The originals have a somewhat distinctly and significant porosity at the surface of the coins. This would be expected as these were produced by powdered metallurgy. The originals are more impure with known amounts of iron, palladium, rhodium and chromium present as well as other impurities. Generally the later Novodels are of a purer nature but the differences are not necessarily absolute so it is still difficult to say categorically whether an example is a Novodel or an original. Likely the only sure way to know is to compare several of the copies of a particularily rare date which would be assuredly a Novodel's then compare the chemical patterns with enough of the more common 3 rouble dates until a clear distinction is made. However since one method of testing the coins involve slicing out micro sections from the rims, few owners would allow or submit their examples to such tests.

One thing that can be found out by such tests is purity in relation to iron. Iron leaches out of the surface and is more concentrated in the interior of a coin. The novodels would almost certainly have a lower concentration of iron inside the originals. Though tests are done on just the surface which is not destructive these tests are less revealing and thus less certain. For example though later Novodels do not show as much magnetic attraction as the earlier ones and modern examples show no magnetic attraction, this cannot be considered as proof that a piece is a Novodel because there is variation in purity of the platinum over the 18 years of the mintage. It can't be said for certain that originals would not have the same amount of magnetic attraction as a later Novodel. Similarly the later Novodels had the same types of impurities as the earlier originals but in smaller proportions, but again it cannot be stated categorically that an earlier example wasn't an anomaly to have lower impurity levels like the later Novodels. So they can only say that a coin is probably an original or a novodel with maybe only a 90% degree of certainty. (For example one example showed a extremely low iron level and was called a [Novodel] forgery, but later analysis of the coin showed it had rhodium peak unknown in the Novodels. In fact it been noted that even the same coin will display variations of density from the obverse when compared to the reverse. Not only that, the amount of impurities will also vary from side to side. Some coins displayed a much higher reading for some elements on one side when compared to the other. Copper and gold were found in concentrations as high as 1% on one side but presumably virtually absent from the other. Other examples showed higher concentrations of nickel, silver and tin on one side. However when the surface is compared to modern Russian platinum there is obvious differences and the earlier genuine ones are easily distinguishable. One curious finding with tests done on known genuine examples was that the earlier coins (1829, 1831 and 1835) actually were purer then later issues, thus further displaying that purity isn't an absolute ruler for distinguishing the originals from the later Novodels. This also suggests the mint masters learned how to cope with the impurities over the years and thus were less stringent. The platinum used in the coins was prepared in batches of a mere 10-15 kg a day and the purity of the batches varied from day to day, so even several coins from the same year could all display different characteristics and all be originals and not Novodels. People that test the coins conclude that further tests are necessary because at present discrimination between the two series "are otherwise almost indistinguishable".

One of those curious facts about platinum was in 1860's Spanish gold coins were counterfeited using platinum then plated gold. These coins are actually worth more then the genuine ones! In 1860 the US mint reported that people were hollowing out gold coins and putting platinum inside. At the time platinum was worth 1/3 that of gold.

The total mintage of all the original Russian platinum coins from 1828-1845 weighed 485,505 troy ounces (approximately 15.1 tonnes) The later 1800's Novodel reproductions made from the original dies are difficult at best to tell from the original strikes and are usually considered acceptable to collectors, thus the mintages below do not necessarily reflect the true proportion of the coins in existence.

Russian Platinum Rouble mintage. 3 roubles 1828 20,000 1829 43,000 1830 106,000 1831 87,000 1832 66,000 1833 85,000 1834 91,000 1835 139,000 1836 44,000 1837 46,000 1838 49,000 1839 6 1840 3 1841 17,000 1842 146,000 1843 172,000 1844 215,000 1845 50,000

6 roubles 1829 828 1830 8,610 1831 2,784 1832 1,502 1833 302 1834 11 1835 107 1836 11 1837 253 1838 12 1839 2 1840 1 1842 121 1843 127 1844 4 1845 2

12 roubles 1830 119 1831 1,463 1832 1,102 1833 255 1834 11 1835 127 1836 11 1837 53 1838 12 1839 2 1840 1 1841 75 1842 115 1843 122 1844 4 1845 2

Wants Listed (are these up to date?) Mike Tarantino ...Wanted: 1958 Gold V.N.S Medal Wanted: Victorian, Canadian 50c coins (1870- 1901) Contact Mike...... 479-7752 Craig is interested in early Ethiopia silver and gold coins. Also older military ammunition, particularly NATO calibers, training rounds, oddballs, etc. Ken is looking for Example coins from every country so when tourists come they can buy jewelerated coins from their country of origin. Rick would like Whitman and other folders for Foreign coins, especially GB (6 p and up) and other commonwealth countries but will look at any unusual folders. Also wants GB sized penny 1/2 penny and farthing sized bronze or copper coins, wants GB 6p (or 3,or 6 d) coins and will look at GB higher denominations...like Shillings and such. BU 1948 1949 1950 and 1951 Non commemorative nickel. I also want old License plates and Wacky Package stickers. George Anderson would like Coin and Bank notes from Nepal, Tibet and and in particular from the province of Sinkiang. He is also interested in items from the following places. Bhutan, India, Burma, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Honk Kong, Malaysia, Netherlands, Netherlands, East India, and most other Asian countries. Also interested in coins tokens or banknotes depicting elephants. Email [email protected] or 386-6655

New Medallions Pre-Sale Pricing Bronze $19.95 each, Silver $59.95 each, Gold $1295.00 each. These prices can only be paid at the next meeting (November 7th) Otherwise the price goes up after that to the following retail prices. If you cannot get to the meetings you can send a check for the medallion of your choice to the return address on the envelope and we'll take any postmarked before November 7. Obviously if extenuating circumstances arrive and you can't get to a post office or letter box until a couple days later that's OK ...but anything ridiculously late will be returned...or something...Returned I would think. If you have to place an order through the mail use the attached form and send it with your check. Otherwise at the meeting please bring cash. Bronze $29.95 each, Silver $89.95 each, Gold $1,495.00 each NEWS FLASH!!! Though I've only been monitoring the communiqué’s the mints send me because they are no longer copy and pasteable (which is why you haven't seen too many new coin news here of late. I have to read and completely retype them rather then just copy because I can't 'grab' the text) but this is one news flash worth doing this for.

An error has been admitted by the mint! As far as I know this is the first time the mint has actually admitted they made a genuine mistake, so it has to be a big one and not just a dot in the wrong spot!

A "small number" of The 25 cent coin referred to as the "Alpine skiing" produced for collector products issued on October 24 bear a 2008 date on the obverse rather then the 2007! This error is limited to a "coin sport card" sold at Petro-Canada and some Vancouver 2010 Olympic winter games coin collections. Because of the timing of the announcement we may be the first newsletter to note this! GO GO GO!!! I want to see some by the next meeting!!!

Minutes • Meeting notes Meeting called to order at 7:40 PM after over an hour of private deals between members • 50/50 draw won by Brad ($21/$21) Followed by an auction with lots of world coins. • Mike Tarantino circulated proposed draught of Club Medallions featuring the Centennial of the , and the sesquintennial of the B.C. Colony for the membership to consider for striking. Much discussion and finally a vote was held to chose which medal should be struck by the VNS among the following options: 1. Produce a medal like the 100th ann. of the RCM as proposed and circulated. 2. Produce a medal much like the BC Sesquicentennial proposed and circulated 3. Produce both, with the understanding No. 1 will be made first and #2 at a later time with possible new design still to be proposed at a near future date. Option three was selected by a show of hands. • Following the business we were treated to a slide show by a Mr. Stewart Adams from England who is a member of the Havering Numismatic Society and he presented a slideshow called "A Token tour of Essex" He discussed and showed examples of private tokens from the Essex area part of the East of London and the area beyond London in that direction which were produced from the 16th to 20th century and described some of their uses. • First reading was held for Mr. Stewart Adams to join the VNS. There were no objections. Meeting adjourned at 9:30 PM.

Meeting notes for last (executive) meeting. • Meeting commences at 8:00pm. • Club Medal Mike T. explains the logistics of having the medal struck, and the importance of the support of the club to assure the success of the project. Presale prices tor the medals apply to cash purchases made by Nov. 7th or checks received in envelopes postmarked on or before Nov 7th. The project is coming along smoothly and Lorenz & Mike T will be happy to collect payment at the regular November meeting. • Christmas Banquet. The executive’s recommendation is to have the annual banquet at the Szechuan City Restaurant, 110 West Burnside Road (at Harriet). This restaurant’s management has told us we can have our festivities there for a cost of only $12 a head including coffee, pop and the buffet. • Club Logo. The membership is encouraged to consider ideas for a logo for the club, to be discussed in the New Year. • Meeting adjourned at 10:00pm