archived as http://www.stealthskater.com/Documents/Mahood_06.doc (also …Mahood_06.pdf) => doc pdf URL-doc URL-pdf
more of this topic is on the /Lazar.htm page at doc pdf URL note: because important websites are frequently "here today but gone tomorrow", the following was archived from http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire- main/bluefire/the-bob-lazar-corner/ on June 24, 2019. This is NOT an attempt to divert readers from the aforementioned website. Indeed, the reader should only read this back-up copy if the updated original cannot be found at the original author's site.
Looking at the Bob Lazar story from the perspective of 2018 by Tom Mahood
Robert Scott Lazar first came into the public spotlight in November of 1989 during a series of interviews on KLAS-TV in Las Vegas. In these interviews, Lazar told of being hired as a physicist for an extremely secret project at Papoose Lake, a few miles southwest of Groom Lake. He told of working on disc-shaped craft presumably of extraterrestrial origin as part of his work there. His actual time on the project was quite short and went public with the information to protect himself (or so he claims).
I started looking into his story because it (and he) seemed so believable if you can for a moment overlook the subject matter. However, what I found seemed to be at odds with the straightforward individual portrayed in his interviews.
Unfortunately, I eventually came to the conclusion that his story is quite false. I say unfortunately because I like a good saucer story as well as the next guy and it would be really great if it were true. I’m convinced (at least in The Great Bob’s case) that it’s not.
But that’s just my opinion and that shouldn’t matter a whole lot to you. I would much prefer you think for yourself. So have a look at some of this stuff, do some more reading, ask a few questions, and decide for yourself.
In reading over the various pieces I’ve assembled here, you may notice many of them (particularly the earliest stuff) have a much more neutral tone. Some could even be construed as supporting Lazar’s story (I flinch in retrospect!). The writings really reflect my mindset at the time of their writing and I believe it’s fair to leave them as is.
1
They were Particle Beams! The Lazar Synopsis Lazar’s Story – Technical Tidbits The Robert Lazar Timeline L.A. Man Joins The Jet Set At 200 Miles-An-Hour Interview – Lazar in Los Alamos A Physicist’s Critique Some Final Thoughts, Musings, and Ruminations The Lazar Flaws (The Lazar Flaws) The Birth Certificate (The Lazar Flaws) The Blown Reactor (The Lazar Flaws) Discoverer of Element-115 (The Lazar Flaws) 'Omicron' Mode Operation (The Lazar Flaws) Education (The Lazar Flaws) Odds and Ends (The Lazar Flaws) Theories Gene Huff reviews "The Lazar Corner" Element 115 Leads?
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/looking-at-the-bob-lazar- story-from-the-perspective-of-2018/
(Why, oh why, is this still a thing?) Damn. Damn, damn, damn!
I really don’t want to be writing this as I have way better things to do. I thought I happily left all this crap in my rearview mirror 20 years ago. But apparently not. Recently, I’ve noted an increasing number of visitors to the ancient Bluefire part of my website coming from the /UFOs section of Reddit. Seems like they were looking for information on Bob Lazar.
Tracking the links back to Reddit, I was surprised to find a number of current discussions on Lazar and his veracity. Sadly, there were quite a few posts saying how they believed Lazar’s story and he was
2 the “real deal”. And I’m pretty sure many of those posters were small kids or not even born when all this Lazar stuff first went down years ago (Ummmm… What’s a “newsgroup”??).
This was all news to me as I quit following the subject 20-or-so years ago when I started my graduate work in Physics and realized the basic science elements of Lazar’s tale were something well beyond wrong and I moved in other directions.
I have a great love of subtlety and in hindsight I’m afraid my final Lazar postings were lost on some. I pretty much laid the real story all out in pieces and sort of assumed people would connect it. I apparently was wrong and a hammer was required. What follows is the hammer (probably what I should have written 20 years ago) and then I’m done with this damn subject… forever (I can dream, can’t I?).
First and foremost, I need to touch on the basic science in Lazar’s tale. In the world of scientific research, the harshest insult that can be leveled against someone’s work is that the person “is not even wrong”. In other words, the research or theory is so bad it really can’t even be discussed coherently. If I were feeling charitable (and I’m not), I suppose Lazar’s story may just barely reach the “not even wrong” level.
Now as someone with a real Masters in Physics (with a focus on gravitation, no less!), I could go on for many pages pissing all over Lazar’s nonsensical tale. But it would have to become very technical and the hardcore Lazar believers would not be swayed. So why should I bother? But this quicky should be easy for anyone to understand.
Recall that Lazar surfaced with his tale well before gravitational wave observatories such as LIGO, VIRGO, GEO 600, and TAMA had even been designed (much less made operational). If Lazar’s saucers did indeed operate like he claimed (i.e., grabbing distant portions of spacetime and pulling it toward them), they would generate enough gravitational waves to knock the observatories’ interferometer mirrors off their damn mounts. (Okay, maybe a slight exaggeration.) But any near-Earth operations of the saucers described by Lazar would result in huge gravitational wave signals.
Wait… Unless the observatories are part of the coverup!!! Um….nope.
Aside from dealing with Lazar’s science being absolute rubbish, I also need to discuss what those glowing objects seen by many over Groom Lake actually were. They were (as I apparently didn’t lay out forcefully enough 20 years ago) the result of the operation of a proton beam device. I repeat: THEY WERE GODDAMNED PARTICLE BEAMS!!!
There! Having said that, I feel much better.
Now I didn’t exactly pull that theory out of my ass. It was, um ... suggested to me that I might want to pay a visit to my university library and look up something called the Bragg Curve. In essence, it relates how far charged particles can penetrate into matter given their initial energy.
To be honest, my reaction was “Huh? What does this have to do with anything?”
The response was something along the lines of “Okay, moron. Pull a certain dusty old physics reference book and look at the Bragg Curve equations on pages so-and-so”.
I dutifully followed my instructions. After staring at the equations for about 20 minutes, the skies opened and the rain of understanding soaked me. It was truly an “Ohhhh Shiiiiit!” moment. I’m often 3 slow. But I get there eventually. After that, the rest was just running the numbers. (Oh and BTW, you can try it yourself if you don’t believe me.)
Since then, I’ve had my posting on particle beams at Groom ... shall we say … vetted. I’ve also spoken to people who have seen these glowing orbs of plasma firsthand from a distance and very close up.
Finally, I had the chance to ask a real particle physicist who worked at Los Alamos (for reals, a family friend) if dumping a high energy proton beam into the atmosphere would result in the creation of a glowing ball of plasma? He looked at me quizzically for a while and said he supposed it would. But why would anyone want to? And THAT is an extremely interesting question.
Given Groom’s primary mission involving radar measures and countermeasures, my sense 20 years ago was that they were testing something possibly for use in radar spoofing. However, the fact that it apparently still remains classified today (an important element in the explanation of Lazar’s tale) suggests maybe its purpose was something else (perhaps an attempt at a Star Wars-type weapon).
In the 1980s and 90s, there were many reports in the Southwest US of slow-moving virtually silent big black triangular aircraft only seen at night. I’ve written a bit about those here. I was told by those that know about this stuff that the project’s classification (continued to this day) was due to these craft violating some provisions of weapons treaties that the U.S. had signed. I would speculate that the proton accelerator at Groom generating those flamin’ balls o’ plasma 30 years ago might in a similar manner also violate some weapons treaties and must thus stay severely under wraps.
So let me be completely clear. The Wednesday night glowing orbs seen in the skies over Groom Lake by Lazar et al were NOT “craft”. They were plasmas generated by operation of a high- powered proton accelerator dumping its beam into the atmosphere. And… Lazar knew this!
So enough of this setup. Let’s get into the meat of this tale.
From what I have seen, much of the argument supporting Lazar’s story on Reddit revolves around “waddabouts”. By this I mean that posters say that “If Lazar’s story wasn’t true, then how do you explain
The following isn’t a complete list but covers most that occur repeatedly (I’m assuming you already have familiarity with the details of Lazar’s story; else it’s unlikely you’d be reading this):
• Lazar worked at Los Alamos, showed George Knapp around there, and people seemed to know him. His name was in the phone book in 1982. • The Los Alamos newspaper story on Lazar and his jet car called him a "physicist" with the Lab. • In Las Vegas, security personnel (observed by others) visited Lazar at his home. • Lazar was noted by friends and family to “disappear” as part of a job. • He was able to correctly describe certain aspects of the facilities at Groom Lake. • He identified a location known as S-4 in the Nellis Range. • Lazar was able to correctly name specific people involved in the security process. • Edward Teller appeared to react visibly and uncomfortably when asked about Lazar in an interview. • Lazar received a W-2 form from the Government. 4 • After Lazar’s story broke, some media members observed possible government surveillance and intimidation efforts. • Also after Lazar went public, persons around Lazar observed what appeared to be a vigorous and threatening government attempt to silence him. • Lazar “knew” about Element-115 long before it was ever synthesized. • And finally the absolute best: Lazar knew about the Wednesday night tests and showed others.
The posters bring up some damn good points. How IS one to explain all these without there being a hidden saucer facility at Papoose Lake?
Well, it turns out there is a very good reason all these things probably did, in fact, happen and why Lazar still holds to his nonsensical story. (Spoiler: It’s about saving his ass!)
Okay boys and girls, it’s time to strap in and begin our story. Now all that follows may not be precisely accurate. But whatever deviations that exist are pretty small. I know most of the major points of what I’m about to relate to be facts from documents I unearthed and also thanks to the confidence of a number of astonishingly well-placed folks who I’m not about to betray.
After Lazar got to Los Alamos and set up his photo processing business, he managed to get a limited-term contract job with Kirk-Mayer. Kirk-Mayer was one of the smaller contractors supplying support staff to the Los Alamos lab such as data entry personnel, machinists, fabricators, and electronic technicians. Kirk-Mayer never did provide “physicists” or positions of that caliber.
Lazar had some electronic technical education from Pierce College in Southern California and had some work experience with Fairchild. So he was hired as an electronic tech with Kirk-Mayer. I have interviews with several people who worked with him and he was described as a very clever troubleshooter and fix-it guy. He was there often enough to get listed in the LANL phone directory with the denotation “K/M” next to his name indicating his affiliation with Kirk-Mayer. Although the following ad is from the Albuquerque Journal in January, 1989 a few years after Lazar had left Los Alamos, it probably closely describes Lazar’s position at the time:
5
Lazar and his jet car established quite a presence in the small town of Los Alamos. And about a month after arriving, the Los Alamos Monitor newspaper did an article about him. The story described him as a physicist at the Lab. But that was in fact only what he told the reporter his position was. Some people who knew him at the time were quite surprised to see that claimed title.
I probably should take a small detour to talk about Lazar’s jet car (the article’s focus), first to demystify it a bit and to show Lazar’s genius talent for low key self promotion is evident even then as well as his inclusion of nuggets of truth to sell exaggerations and falsehoods.
6 The car was powered by what’s known as a Gluhareff Pressure Jet Engine. It’s a uniquely clever and quirky device burning liquid propane with no moving parts and noisy as hell. It was invented by Eugene Gluhareff (someone that Lazar knew while growing up in the San Fernando Valley). There are images and videos online of Lazar as a kid with a Gluhareff jet strapped to a bike, then a go-kart. Fun stuff! Magazines like Popular Science advertised plans for these jet engines for many years and they can still be found online with a little Googling.
A problem arises when you read the Monitor article’s report of the claims Lazar made for the jet in his car. His claim it produced 1,600 pounds of thrust (deliberately derated down to 800 pounds) seems unlikely. The largest (and rarest) engine designed by Gluhareff (the G8-2-700) produced only 700 pounds of thrust and was very large (see page 4 of the PDF on Gluhareff jets that I
Also per Gluhareff’s own technical documentation, the G8-2-700 wasn’t designed until 1984 (2 years after Lazar arrived in Los Alamos). The jet car photos in the Monitor article show an engine roughly the size of a G8-2-130. As far as I’ve been able to determine, Gluhareff never designed anything with thrust as great as the 1,600 pounds that Lazar claimed his engine could attain.
Another measure of Lazar’s veracity is when he states it’s the most efficient jet engine available using 1.3 pounds of propane for each pound of thrust it produces compared to 6 pounds of fuel for each pound of thrust with a regular jet engine. This is utter bullshit!
The values Lazar was tossing around are known as Thrust Specific Fuel Consumption (TSFC). From data on page 8 of the linked Gluhareff PDF, it appears a G8-130 engine has a TSFC value of 1.33. So he hasn’t left reality there.
However when you look up TSFC values for regular jet engines, you find they are typically WELL below 1.0 pounds of fuel for each pound of thrust, and lower numbers are better. Hell, the Concorde burned 1.195 pounds of fuel for each pound of thrust at Mach 2. So even that fuel hog was better than a Gluhareff jet. In fact, Gluhareff jets are notoriously inefficient but were considered to have potential in some situations due to their unique construction/operation.
So having beat this horse well beyond death, given all his misrepresentation/exaggeration of his jet car, is it any stretch to think he might claim to be a physicist at the lab when he wasn’t? Yeah, I didn’t think so either.
7 Okay, back to the story…
In an amazing display of totally fucked synchronicity, the Los Alamos Monitor newspaper article came out on June 27, 1982. The very next day, Edward Teller was scheduled to give a lecture at Los Alamos. Had this not happened, I doubt there ever would have been a Lazar story.
I gleefully accept that Lazar came upon Teller reading the paper and pointed out the story about Lazar and his jet car. Since the story identified Lazar as a “physicist” at the lab, I have no doubt Lazar (again a master of low-key self promotion) chatted up Teller trying his best to impress Teller.
Let’s jump forward to 1985 when Lazar blew out of Los Alamos and relocated to Las Vegas. According to the bankruptcy papers Lazar filed on July 21, 1986 (BTW, 120 pages of amazeballs freely available to anyone who wants to pay, case BK 86-01623, US Federal Bankruptcy Court, Las Vegas), he stiffed people right-and-left before leaving Los Alamos including family members.
Lazar putzed around Las Vegas for the next few years. I have information from good sources that during this time, he worked very briefly at a "Smokey Sam" site as part of Nellis training exercises in the northern reaches of the Nellis Range. I suspect that he had an inkling of what was going on at Groom as I was told Lazar made a number of overnight trips circumnavigating the Nellis Range during the period.
Eventually he discovered EG&G’s connection with Groom and also Edward Teller’s connection with EG&G. So in 1988, he sent Teller a letter. “Hey, remember me! The Los Alamos jet car physicist? I have lots of experience in particle accelerators since I worked at Los Alamos’s Technical Area 53, the Meson Physics Facility, which has an 800 MeV proton accelerator. Do you know of any interesting positions where I might be able to put that experience to use??”
Knowing Teller’s Strangelovian background, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for the man. But in this one case, I feel for the guy. Like so many in Lazar’s sphere of influence, he was had. Maybe it was because he was 80 years old at the time and not as sharp. But perhaps he thought that Lazar might be an excellent candidate for the proton beam project and he made some calls. Things happened and Lazar gets called in for an interview. Catastrophes are seldom the result of a major bad single decision but rather usually a cascading series of unwise choices. Such was the case here.
Now it boggles my mind how someone with Lazar’s bankruptcy record would be granted any sort of clearance. But perhaps it hadn’t been immediately unearthed. And maybe Teller passed on a crazy glowing recommendation. And possibly Lazar had a previous 'Q' clearance from Los Alamos.
In any case, security guys visit Lazar’s home and check him out. They decide he’s their guy (at least for now) and he’s soon on a Janet flight to Groom on a very limited basis doing non-classified grunt work until his clearance is updated. In any case, if he didn’t already fully know, he does now that they’re operating a proton accelerator at Groom. And oh, BTW, they usually fire it up on Wednesday nights. Sounds like it’s time for a party to me!
Figuring out another’s motives is difficult, especially with Lazar. Specifically, I’m speaking of why- the-fuck (WHY??!!) did he decide to bring his friends out to see a Wednesday night test? It could be that he realized his clearance was going to fall through due to the bankruptcy. Or perhaps it was an attempt to prank his friend John Lear who Lazar often made fun of for his UFO interests. Or maybe Lazar just thought he was smarter than all those security guys at Groom and no one would ever know. Or it could have been something as simple as wanting to impress his friends.
8 Dunno. But in any case, he brought them all out.
But here’s the important part. Lazar never told his friends/family the truth. That they were seeing the effects of a proton beam. Lazar spun his crazy saucer story to them in his mind thinking that as long as he wasn’t revealing what they were actually seeing, he wouldn’t be violating security (setting aside for the moment he was bringing visitors to observe classified tests).
The people Lazar brought out to see the tests became his most ardent supporters and defenders because, hell, he showed them flying saucers and called the days that they’d show up. That’s pretty damn convincing.
Alas, in a familiar pattern, they were played for fools. I suspect (but do not know) that some of this group may now know the truth. But they didn’t then.
So, April 6, 1989… It all comes crashing down. Security discovers our little band of partiers and Lazar bolts into the desert. It’s starting to sink in that he could be in some serious shit. The Lincoln County Sheriff later questions the merry-makers and lets them go. But they had Lazar’s ID and he knew word would quickly get back to Groom. Uh oh! He could be looking at serious jail time.
The next day, Lazar is summoned to the Indian Springs airfield and the full force of the Groom security apparatus is directed at him. He now realizes how close to jail he is. His only defense is that he didn’t tell his comrades what they were actually seeing but rather it was a made-up story of flying saucers.
This, of course, doesn’t go over well with the security guys. But they are somewhat stymied. Their choice is do they prosecute this guy and draw further attention to Groom’s operations? Or just kick him out and intimidate the hell out of him to get him to speak no further? I guess, in hindsight, they picked wrong.
Unbeknownst to the Groom guys, Lazar’s tale to his friends cast him as the hero against a hopelessly inefficient secret Government bureaucracy. Their rallying around him and support emboldened him, eventually granting interviews to KLAS due to John Lear’s urgings. Lazar also may have viewed that action as insurance, heightening his profile, should Groom security decide to come after him again. But it required him to fully double down on the alien saucer tale that he had wove.
Not a bad gig, really. Some minor celebrity and attention along with occasional paid interviews. And he maintains it to this day because, well… he has to. It keeps him out of jail. I’m certain the Feds have a long memory when it comes to Lazar and would love to get even for him trashing Groom’s abilities to run secret operations.
So that’s what really went down more-or-less. No saucers. Just a really neat proton accelerator and a guy spinning a crazy story to stay out of jail. I’ve covered most of the waddabouts in the course of this way-too-long narrative. But I’ll address the leftovers.
Lazar could name security personnel because he interacted with them for his initial access to Groom and later when he was drummed out at Indian Springs.
As for poor old Ed Teller, I’m guessing flaming piles of shit came back to him for recommending Lazar to the Groom project. That would more than explain Teller’s infamous reaction when a TV interviewer directly asked him if he knew Bob Lazar. Well, he knew OF him and no good came from it. 9
Lazar’s “outing” of S-4 was anything but. Clearly, there’s nothing at Papoose Lake as a number of people have stated since. I know folks who have been there including a helicopter pilot who landed on Papoose Lake. Hell, with a good spotting scope there are even several perches in the Mt. Charleston range which would give a clear view right into the hangar bay doors if they existed (not that I’d know anything about that). Yes, there IS a “Site-4” associated with the Tonopah Test Range tasked primarily with radar issues and nowhere near Papoose. I wrote about the place years ago and it was no secret, clearly displayed on maps John Lear would have likely had.
They W-2 form that Lazar claims just showed up one day in the mail may or may not be legit. It could have been forged as some have argued to support Lazar’s story. But it also could be real, representing Lazar’s few days of work at Groom. In any case, it doesn’t mean that saucers exist at Papoose.
Many people claimed that Lazar had inside info about Element-115 before it was actually synthesized. Well, no. Lazar’s main claim about Element-115 was that it was stable which amazed folks.
But here’s the thing. That concept is really old news. I have a 1969 article from Scientific American with a cool 3D graph showing an “island of stability” around 114. This was also repeated in my undergrad physics textbook. But maybe most interesting is an article (“Creating Superheavy Elements” by Armbruster and Munzenberg) published in Scientific American again talking about a potential island of stability around 114. The article’s date? May 1989 - the same month Lazar began his interviews with KLAS TV in Las Vegas. (Yeah, probably just a coincidence.)
Oh and since we’re speaking of coincidences, I’m sure that’s the case with Lazar and his particle accelerators. When he first surfaced with his story in Las Vegas, media accounts of him were sure to mention that he had a particle accelerator in his bedroom, you know, ’cause that’s the mark of a true scientist.
Later, after the Feds busted his operation in Edgewood, NM for selling controlled materials (and all the fascinating court documents are now online, Yay!), Wired magazine did a piece on Lazar in June of 2006. In it, he has yet another particle accelerator which he says he uses to produce a compound for gaseous hydrogen storage. This is a pretty farfetched claim as the ability to make useful quantities of the compound would take forever with an amateur particle accelerator. I wonder what he really might be using those accelerators for? (Again, must be a coincidence.)
Oh and if you’re impressed that someone has their very own particle accelerator, well… you shouldn’t. Way back in the early 1960s, Scientific American published an article on how to make a “homemade atom smasher” (aka, particle accelerator). As a kid, I lusted after that project. But its crux was the need to build a mercury diffusion pump (!!) to achieve the hard vacuum needed in the beam tube. Beyond the need for a hard vacuum (with pumps now available on eBay), the rest is trivial. But you know, why? Unless you want to impress others and make plasma balls.
A last item for your consideration to assess Lazar’s veracity is his academic background. He claims Masters degrees from BOTH Caltech and MIT in subjects that they don’t offer and during time periods he couldn’t have physically been at either campus. In response to questions at the “Ultimate UFO Seminar” in Rachael, NV in May of 1993, Lazar was so kind as to offer up the names of two of his instructors at Caltech and MIT. A “Dr. Duxler” as well as “Hohsfield”. He even spelled them. Stan Friedman told me he went searching for Duxler and no such person ever taught at Caltech or MIT.
10 However, he did find a William Duxler who taught Math and Physics at the previously mentioned Pierce College and confirmed to Friedman that Lazar had taken at least one of his courses in the 1970s.
As for finding Hohsfield, Friedman rolled snake eyes beyond confirming that no one by that name ever taught at Caltech or MIT. However, did you know that in this amazing 21st Century you can buy reprints of all sorts of old high school yearbooks? Like, for example, the 1976 yearbook for W. Tresper Clarke High School? And if one were to do so, one would find that there was a Technical and Vocational teacher there by the name of Frederick Hohsfield. Looks like he was teaching electronics. Interesting, no?
I’ve never understood why Lazar clings to these imaginary Masters degrees when they have been so thoroughly proven to be lies. Lazar’s fans would easily accept an explanation of simple resume padding. But I have to grudgingly concede that Lazar has some mighty huevos in the matter. I have read the probation report submitted to the court when Lazar was busted for pandering in Nevada in 1990. Under oath to the probation agent preparing the report, Lazar continued to claim he had these degrees. Dude, you got some game!!
As for the saucer stories and the rest, that was just a story told to keep him out of jail to which he must still firmly cling. So you have to ask yourself am I going to believe a fantastic story told by someone with a well-established record of exaggeration and deceit when there is a much more plausible explanation for the same events?
And if Lazar’s story is false (which I KNOW is the case, although your mileage may vary), it then follows that individuals who have come forward after Lazar with claims of working at S-4 corroborating his story are also lying.
There! See how simple life can be when reason is applied rather than wanting things to be true?
Some will certainly dismiss all the above and say that I’m just a debunker or even an agent of the government (my favorite!) out to get Lazar. But far from it. I just happen to place a premium on truth and folks that waste other’s time annoy me.
When I first heard Lazar’s story many years ago, it sounded plausible. Thus I do have some empathy and understanding of those that have watched his interviews and swallowed it all. It wasn’t until I actually starting looking into the details of his claims that I began to think that he might not be telling the truth.
Fun fact. My very first investigatory act was to spend time going through Caltech yearbooks to find a passing mention of him as I actually expected him to be there. Surprise! He wasn’t there!
As for my beliefs, I happen to think that UFOs are quite real phenomena. I’m not inclined to take any strong position on just precisely WHAT they are. But I’ve read too much and know too many well-connected individuals to dismiss them.
And beyond that, I think it’s highly likely we are in possession of some sort of “stuff” from this phenomena from “crash recoveries” or whatever.
Finally, I’m sure there are at least a few very dark Government programs dealing with this sort of thing. But Lazar never worked for any of them.
11 [StealthSkater note: there have been rumors about some scientists who researched the UFOs that said they functioned more like "time machines" than advanced navigational craft. Now you get into Macro Quantum Tunneling/Entanglement (e.g., Philip Taylor Kramer doc pdf URL , UNITEL doc pdf URL , and the Montauk Project doc pdf URL , even crop circles, or "manipulation" of established timelines doc pdf URL ). Others have suggested Plasmoids ( doc pdf URL ). ]
To wrap this up, I’d like to leave you with a quote reportedly straight from the mouth of Lazar related to me by someone who once knew him:
“The more incredible the lie, the more people will believe it.“
Thus speaketh The Bob. And on this one point, I guess I gotta agree with him.
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/the-lazar-synopsis/
The Lazar Synopsis
by Gene Huff (friend and believer)
[As posted to alt.conspiracy.area51, 12 Mar 1995.]
This is a synopsis (or maybe booklet) of Bob Lazar’s story which is being offered as a ground zero for future dialogue. After coming to the Internet a short time ago, I noticed that people’s knowledge of Bob’s story varied widely. This is an effort to increase that knowledge base so people who either support or dismiss Bob’s story do it for the right reasons. Bob’s story is long and complex and in this document, I’ve tried to condense it to a manageable size without omitting relevant points. I’m going to emphasize how things looked from my point-of-view. I won’t elaborate on propulsion systems and things of that sort. So if you want that, you can get it on The Lazar (video) Tape and hear if from Bob himself. So here we go…
In the late 1980s, I was working as a real estate appraiser in Las Vegas (and still am for that matter). Bob Lazar (known as “Bob the photo guy” to most Las Vegas appraisers) operated the photo lab that serviced many appraisers at that time. Bob and I had met in 1985 and by 1988 we had become friends and began to socialize together. Bob’s wife Tracy usually did the photo deliveries to our office. At first, I had talked to her and seen her infinitely more than Bob. Periodically she would talk about when she and Bob lived in Los Alamos (not together) and I just presumed that he ran a photo lab down there.
Bob and Tracy met when Tracy was hired to work at a business run buy Bob’s first wife Carol. Tracy’s dad Don Merck worked at the Los Alamos National Lab (LANL from here on out) and that’s how she happened to be living there. Don worked on the conventional charge that implodes and compresses the nuke material to make an atomic bomb explode.
12 After Bob and I started socializing, I began to notice that he knew a lot about many things. I knew that he was somewhat of an egghead because when he would do a rare photo delivery, he would drive a Honda CRX in which he had installed a jet engine.
But his knowledge base extended far beyond that. There was little he didn’t know about jet engines, combustion engines, electronics, computer hardware and software, etc. He even made some nitroglycerin one day while we sat talking at the kitchen table. We later took it out to the desert and blew it up. That’s how I knew it was. Indeed, a high energy explosive.
Eventually, I asked him why he knew all of this stuff. He said: “I’ve got degrees in physics and electronic technology”. I said: “Well, what’s the difference between you and a scientist?” He said: "I AM a scientist”. I said: “Why didn’t you tell me?” He said: “What did you want me to do? Say hey man! I’m a scientist”? I said: “Yeah. I would have”. He just shook his head and walked away. I later found out that he had worked at the Meson Physics facility at LANL.
All this time, I just thought he was some guy who ran a photo lab and just happened to have an interest in jet engines. He also had (and still has) a rail-type dragster with a jet engine from one of the Military’s first supersonic fighters.
Anyway, in time I met Bob’s dad Al; his mother Phyllis; Tracy’s dad Don; and Joe Vaninetti, an old friend from Los Alamos. Joe’s last job at LANL was melting down plutonium. He is currently completing his masters in soils analysis (soils science?) up in Utah. (You’ll hear more about Joe later). Melissa Crey (maybe Cray) Joe’s roommate and a physicist at LANL. And Jim Tagliani, an old friend and computer & electronic tech.
All of these people seemed to think Bob was a scientist and to this day, I have no reason to doubt him and numerous reasons to believe him. Jim Tagliani actually worked with Bob at Fairchild Electronics in southern Cal where Bob was the youngest electrical engineer ever to have worked there. This was a couple of years prior to Bob’s Los Alamos job.
At this point in 1988, Bob was bored with the photo lab and had sent out resumes to various Government labs to try and get back into another scientific job. Included on that list was Dr. Edward Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb and scientific consultant to the last 5-or-6 presidents. Bob had met Teller in 1982 in Los Alamos when Teller was there lecturing.
Coincidentally, at this same time, Bob’s picture was on the front page of the Los Alamos Monitor newspaper. A staff writer named Terry England had done an article on Bob and a Honda CRX in which he had installed a jet engine. This wasn’t the same jet CRX that he had when I first met him. This article ran in the June 27, 1982 edition of that paper. In it they refer to Bob as (and I quote) “Lazar, a physicist at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility”.
It’s difficult to believe that in a town of 10,000 scientists who all have egos about their credentials, the only local newspaper could refer to Bob as a scientist if he was not one (at least not without any public outrage).
Anyway, when Bob arrived early to hear Teller speak, there Teller sat reading the newspaper article about Bob. Bob used this as an avenue to introduce himself and they had a short chat about jets, etc. Bob later heard Teller’s speech and that was that. So in 1988 when Bob sent out all of these resumes, he thought why not take a shot?
13 It had been a while since he sent out these resumes. One day I dropped by his house and asked him if he had heard any news. He said: “As a matter of fact, yeah. Edward Teller called me”. I said: “Who’s Edward Teller?”. After he explained, I understood the importance of the call.
Teller had responded by phone and said that he was no longer active but currently worked in a chief consultant capacity. However, Teller did give Bob the name of a gentleman to call here in Las Vegas. Bob called this guy and talked to him and a short time later, someone from EG&G called Bob to set up an interview. EG&G is a company that has all kinds of high-tech interests here at the Nevada Test Site. Bob threw away the piece of paper with the name that Teller gave him on it. Remember at this point in time, nobody knew what Bob was headed for and it’s obvious that it would be nice to have that name now.
So Bob went to EG&G for the interview. Bob later told me that he “dazzled” them by having every answer to some pretty complex questions and he was optimistic about getting the job. This was unusual because Bob isn’t one to pat himself on the back. However, dazzling them temporarily backfired because they told him he was overqualified for the job and he didn’t get it. They then told him not to lose hope because they had something coming up that he might be interested in. Ultimately, they called him back and hired him to work on a propulsion project in an “outer area”.
Bob reported to the EG&G building at McCarran airport which had runway access where he was met by Dennis Mariani. Mariani was a security man of medium build and height, about 35 to 40 years old, blonde hair, and a tightly cropped blonde mustache. Mariani had a military look and manner but he didn’t wear a uniform. With Mariani as his escort, Bob was flown out to Area-51 at Groom Lake.
At Area-51, Bob had to sign a secrecy agreement and an agreement to waive his constitutional rights (which is illegal but was made possible by an executive order with Ronald Reagan’s signature on it). He also had to sign an agreement which allowed them to monitor his phone line. Bob already had 'Q' clearance which is top secret civilian clearance at Los Alamos.
But he had never gone through anything like this. The clearance he was now attaining would require perpetual monitoring of his activities and would never simply be attained and forgotten about until the next review date. After some abrupt suggestions that he honor his secrecy agreement and watch his general conduct, he and Mariani boarded a bus with blacked-out windows and took a 20-to-30 minute ride down a bumpy dirt/gravel road. They arrived at a base near Papoose dry lake bed known as 'S4'.
'S4' was a combination of buildings and hangars built into the side of a mountain. Armed guards were everywhere and security was oppressive. Bob even got an armed escort when he went to the bathroom. They arranged Bob’s I.D. and gave him a physical which included a test for allergic reactions to substances which were not identified for Bob.
After this, he was placed in a briefing room by himself to read some briefings as part of his indoctrination. As Mariani closed the door to leave Bob alone, Bob saw a poster on the back of the door. It was a “flying saucer” hovering over a dry lake bed and it was captioned “They’re Here”. Bob opened the top folder on the desk and it contained 8 x 10 glossy photos of 9 different flying saucers including the one on the poster.
To this day, no one knows why Bob was selected for this project. Bob has a comprehensive knowledge base and is an excellent problem solver. But this may not be uncommon in the scientific community. Maybe the good word from Edward Teller carried a lot of weight. It’s even possible that the nod from Teller carried more weight than was originally intended. But no one knows.
14 At this point in time, Tracy helped with the photo lab during the day and worked out at a health club and took flying lessons at night. Bob was on call for S4 and would generally be called to go out once every week or two. They said he’d be working on an on-call basis until he was “brought up to speed” at which time he would work on a more consistent basis. They’d always have Bob report in the late afternoon and work evenings which allowed him to maintain the photo lab during the day.
Bob was now very secretive about his job and would only tell his wife and friends that he was working on something that required clearance. He eventually did tell us that he flew into Area-51 when he went to work. We had no idea what he was actually doing and because of that, none of us were overly curious as to what his project was.
Around this same time, the CBS affiliate is Las Vegas KLAS had been running local news shows featuring UFO researchers which I found entertaining and intriguing. These shows were hosted by George Knapp, a local news anchor who is now high profile and arguably the most informative and motivating speaker on the UFO circuit. George doesn’t speak as regularly as “UFO experts” but is infinitely more informed than them, especially with things ufological in Nevada. On these shows, much ado was being made about alleged UFOs and aliens at Area-51.
Bob assured us that there were no UFOs at Area-51. As it ended up, he was telling the truth. They were at S4 and they were called “discs” and they were anything but “unidentified”.
Bob had been hired to be part of a “back-engineering” team. Back-engineering is the act of taking apart a finished product to find out what makes it tick. In this instance, their job was to back-engineer a flying disc to see if it could be reproduced with earth materials. Bob’s specific job was to help back engineer the propulsion system.
In subsequent trips to S4, Bob was exposed to the propulsion system on a bench in a lab as well as the propulsion system in place in an actual disc. In a sleek disc that he would eventually nickname the “sport model”, Bob had to hang upside down through an opening on the floor of the central level to view the gravity amplifiers on the lower level. He eventually witnessed a brief low altitude test flight of this same disc. He was also taught how the discs are able to distort space/time to achieve interstellar travel. The “Sport Model” disc is currently being produced as a plastic model by the Testor Corporation.
In subsequent visits to the briefing room, he read overview reports which were used to give the diverse group of S4 scientists some idea of the breadth of the project. Naturally, they were all given in depth information regarding their own particular endeavors. But it seems that they couldn’t put good scientific minds to work and compartmentalize information so much that someone wouldn’t say "By the way, aren’t these flying saucers we’re working on?”
The scientists at S4 worked in teams and were obviously not allowed to chat in the lunch room about what everybody else was doing. So apparently they gave them all a limited overview to satisfy their curiosity and keep them sane.
In these reports, Bob read information about Man’s history, philosophy, and theology and the part that these aliens (who brought the disc technology) played in these areas. Much of this information was alarming (even shocking) and it has certainly changed my life. This information combined with the defense capabilities and possibilities of disc technology and gravity propulsion has caused this to be the most secret program in History and THE pet project which the Military and Political elite have kept from the rest of the DOD (and for that matter, the rest of Mankind).
15 During this time, agents from the Office of Federal Investigation (the OFI) would randomly visit Bob’s house. The OFI agents are the guys who do background checks on people hired for classified positions on the Nevada Test Site (and elsewhere I would imagine).
One time an agent named Mike Thigpen visited with other agents and searched Bob’s house and belongings. Thigpen was witnessed there by Kristen Merck, Bob’s now ex-sister-in-law and Mrs. Wayne Higdon, the wife of a mutual friend of Bob’s and mine. George Knapp later asked Thigpen what he was doing at Bob’s house. Thigpen claimed that he had no file on it and he couldn’t remember being there. He said maybe he was there asking Bob questions about Jim Tagliani, a friend of ours who was then trying to get clearance to work as an electronics technician at the stealth fighter base on the Tonopah Test Range.
This was a ridiculous response. Thousands of people nationwide have been visited by investigators from the OFI or DOD to respond to questions about friends and neighbors and relatives who are in the process of getting cleared for classified positions. These agents hardly retain the right to search your house and personal belongings. Obviously, Thigpen was doing his job by not remembering being at Bob’s house even though he was witnessed there by 2 women who didn’t even really know each other.
(In defense of the OFI investigators, the guys doing the background checks are not necessarily informed of the destination of the subject of their investigation. Even if Thigpen had admitted his activities at Bob’s house, this would have been no sort of verification that he knew what Bob was in for. The depth of the requisite investigation may indicate the level of security clearance but not the actuality of the subject’s employment.)
Around this same time, the U.S. scientists at S4 had made some sort of discovery which was a major step forward in understanding disc technology and gravity propulsion. We had apparently involved some Russian scientists to whatever degree. And rather than share this advance with them, we kicked them out. Bob doesn’t know that the Russians were allowed to actually work with the hardware. They may have only been involved in the mathematical and physical theory. But he doesn’t know.
Anyway, the Russians weren’t pleased about being left out. One of the S4 scientists didn’t show up for work for a couple of days and security was paranoid. They said that the KGB had a presence in Las Vegas and they were afraid that they would either abduct someone that worked at S4 or make the bribe so good that someone wouldn’t be able to refuse. The S4 guy eventually turned up. But security wanted to be safe rather than sorry. They decided to make everyone in the program who flew out from EG&G carry guns from home to EG&G and from EG&G back home.
At EG&G, a female official distributed a small caliber pistol to Bob and told him that if he lost it, he’d have to pay them $500 for it. Bob said no way because he knew this pistol wasn’t even worth $500. After some discussion, Bob made them aware that he had a .44 magnum (amongst other guns) and they agreed that he would carry his own gun.
However, since all of Bob’s guns were purchased in New Mexico and had never been registered, they wanted Bob to register his guns so everything was legal. Dennis Mariani escorted Bob down to the Las Vegas Metro substation on the southwest corner of Atlantic and St. Louis. Bob sat in a waiting area and Mariani went in and spoke about whatever with the police official in charge. A short time later, the police official came out of the office with Mariani to make a copy of something. He looked at Bob and scoffed. “So THIS is the kid the Russians might be after?” I guess Bob wasn’t the big strong he-man required to command this guy’s respect.
16 It’s curious that Mariani would have even mentioned anything like that to a local cop. In Nevada, you can carry a gun in your car as long as it’s not concealed. Your car is interpreted as an extension of your home. So Bob didn’t need a permit to carry a concealed weapon or anything like that. This event has subsequently caused us to question whether-or-not Dennis Mariani was from Nevada.
Also around this same time something was going on that Bob didn’t know about. The Feds monitoring his phone line had heard Tracy talking with her flight instructor who was teaching her more than just how to fly. She was having an affair and they knew that if Bob inadvertantly found out or if Tracy confessed, Bob could potentially become emotionally unstable. They kept him involved at S4 on a limited basis. But the time intervals between calls to work lengthened and he became frustrated. This was ultimately a blessing for Jim Tagliani and me.
Bob sensed that something was wrong. They had give him a taste of honey and he had a strong desire to get back out to S4. He would hear us talking about George Knapp’s UFO shows and we would wonder aloud about the actuality of the situation.
In a rebellious move, Bob threw us some hints and finally decided that he would do us the favor of allowing us to KNOW (not just suspect) that something was really happening. After not being called to work for some time, he broke down and told me. I understand that he told Jim Tagliani around the same time. We didn’t have group meetings or anything like that. Jim didn’t know what I knew and I didn’t know what Jim knew. Bob was the central cog in that relationship and though I consider Jim Tagliani a friend, we seldom socialize together unless Bob is involved.
When Bob told me, we were riding down Alta drive in my car. He said that he was working at S4 on flying discs and he was back-engineering the propulsion system. I was intrigued to say the least. He said one of the discs looked like it had been stood up on its edge to have a projectile fired through it to test the integrity of the metal (or something along those lines). The conversation was brief. But I remember it like it was yesterday.
I now had a million questions to ask Bob. But we couldn’t talk on the telephone. And considering the state of the art in listening devices, we couldn’t talk at his house either.
This confirmation increased my appetite for reading UFO literature exponentially. I soon saw that no one knew what Bob knew and I was lucky enough to have him telling me. When we felt it was safe and convenient, we would have discussions and he would tell me things about S4 and I would tell him things that I had read. We both found it hilarious that organizations like MUFON and CUFON named themselves by placing UFON after their initials. So we jokingly nicknamed each other Bufon and Gufon for Bob’s UFO network and Gene’s UFO network, respectively. These were nicknames that later, Government agents would not find so funny.
Around this same time, Bob received his first paycheck for one week’s pay even though the days had never been worked consecutively. The check was for $958.11. Bob showed me the check and I remember commenting that I thought that a senior staff physicist (which was Bob’s position) would have been paid more than that. He proceeded to tell me how underpaid scientists were and I later found out that was true. I think I was the only one other than Bob to ever see that check.
He had his eye on some electronic equipment. So he decided to buy it and not tell Tracy that the check had ever arrived. In later years when people questioned Bob’s W-2, I knew it was actual because even though I didn’t remember the exact amount, I knew that it was 900 and 50-or-60 bucks which showed me that Bob’s W-2 reflected the money actually received. Later when he left the program, the Government still owed him for some time worked (a bill which remains unpaid to this day). 17
The next time he was called to work, the people at S4 were questioning Bob about his friend Joe Vaninetti. They implied they might be interested in Joe and wanted Bob to get a resume from Joe and take it to the office at EG&G.
On the day when Bob told them he’d have it there, he was busy and couldn’t make it. Since Joe was still down in Los Alamos, Bob asked me to drop it off for him. I took Joe’s resume out to EG&G and the receptionist asked me what I was doing there. I told her that I had Joe’s resume and she grabbed it from me as though she was expecting it. We still don’t know if they were interested in Joe or they just wanted to know more about him because he was Bob’s main (but not only) Los Alamos connection. They may have heard Bob talking on the phone with Joe or something like that. No one knows. The bottom line is they never hired Joe and his name was never brought up again.
On one of Bob’s last nights at S4, he was being escorted down a hallway by armed guards and was told to keep his eyes forward. As they passed a door with one of those small square windows in it, out of the corner of his eye, Bob thought he saw a small “grey” alien standing between 2 men in lab coats. All three were facing a console of some sort and had their backs to the door.
When he tried to turn his head to actually look and confirm his sighting, he was pushed forward by a guard behind him and told again to keep his eyes forward. Bob recognized it as a “grey” alien because these types of beings were shown in reports in the briefing room. To this point, he had surmised that any grey aliens had been gone since 1979 (at least that’s what the briefing reports implied). The sight in that room surprised him (to say the least).
After work that night, Bob arrived home and Tracy was gone, apparently to her flying lesson. He needed someone to talk to and so he called me. I had been sick with the flu all that day and my wife had been nursing me back to health all that evening. I let the answering machine go off. After it
He insisted and said that he wanted to talk to me about those “baby pictures”. He and I had no business with baby pictures. So I recognized this as code and he mentioned photos so if anyone was listening, they wouldn’t be suspicious. I reminded him that I rise early and suggested we get together the next morning. I asked if he would be up at that early hour. He replied that he would probably be up all night. I told him I’d talk to my wife and call him right back.
I told my wife that something big must have been up because he was so persistent. After all, we already knew he was working on flying saucers so this had to be something BIG. Whatever it was, he wanted to talk about was so important that he risked sounding suspicious to those monitoring his phone.
I called Bob back to tell him I’d come over and, oddly, there was no answer. I thought maybe he had stepped out to get something to eat. I’d wait about 5 minutes between calls. But he didn’t answer the next 4 times I called him. Finally on the 6th call, he picked up the phone and said: “I’ll have to call you back. some people from work are here.
Bob didn’t call back that night. But since I had the flu, I fell asleep anyway. As it ended up, right after I had hung up with him the first time, Government agents arrived at his door and wanted to know who this “Gufon” character was. To them, this sounded like a code name, not a joke. Bob explained and they stayed there and filled out a multi-page report on Gene Huff aka Gufon. We don’t know if these were the guys who were actually listening to our conversation or if they had been radioed or 18 telephoned about it. However they found out, they couldn’t have been far from Bob’s house to arrive that quickly.
The next morning, I arrived at my office around 7:00. I had taken some baby pictures to the office with me just in case. Bob walked into my office around seven thirty and motioned with his hands in an effort to tell me to watch what I said. He now knew they were suspicious of me and he didn’t want to talk in my office or on my phone. It was highly unusual for Bob to ever be at my office before 10:30-or- so and his face was very ruddy. He looked like he just may have been up all night.
I said: “Here are those baby pictures” as I handed them to him and he said “Thanks”. Since we couldn’t talk, I grabbed a legal pad and wrote down 2 questions. The first one said: “Have you only flown in planes?” as I was thinking he might have flown in a disc. The second one said: “Has everyone you’ve seen been from Earth?” for obvious reasons. He grabbed the pen and answered the questions "Yes" and "No" respectively.
He said: “I’ll take care of these baby pictures” and left my office. Just to be safe, I went out to the wetbar sink at my office and burned that piece of paper. Bob later told me the rest of the story which I’ve just told you.
Now in present day when Bob is asked about this event by strangers, he explains it away by saying that it may just have been an alien doll or something along those lines which was employed just to test him. He tends to diminish this story with time. But as you can tell, that’s not what he thought back on that night.
Another substantial period of time had passed since Bob had been called to work and one day, I dropped by his house. He answered the door and we walked out to the sidewalk in front of his house to have a short chat. I was telling him about all of the UFO stuff I had read recently and the whole time he was looking up in the sky, preoccupied with his own thoughts. I was essentially whining that everything of substance in Ufology always happened a long time ago (e.g., the Roswell crash in the ’40s, the Russian sightings in the ’50s). I told him that if all this was reality, there should be something happening somewhere now and that’s where I wanted to be. He stopped looking at the sky and looked at me and said: “What are you doing Wednesday night?
Bob had had it. He was tired of them not involving him to a greater degree and he decided to rebel in an aggressive manor. He had decided to take me to the desert out off of the now infamous Highway 375 to witness a disc flight test. Bob knew the tests were held on Wednesday evenings right after dusk.
The first Wednesday, March 22, 1989, we arrived right at dusk, turned our lights off, and went in about 5 miles on the Groom Lake road. Soon we saw a bright light rise above the mountains which were between us and S4. The light began jumping and dancing around doing step moves in the sky. Then it would come to a dead stop and hover, etc.
It repeated this type of activity for a few minutes which was thrilling. But it was so far away that we could only see so much. This activity by the object was blatant and it wasn’t our eyes playing tricks on us with starlight and planet light being distorted by the atmosphere or clouds or anything of that sort.
Eventually, the light slowly sat back down behind the mountains. Little did we know that the next Wednesday, March 29, 1989 would present us with the thrill of a lifetime. I would not generally remember these Wednesday dates. But my son was born Wednesday, March 15, 1989. So the Wednesday dates were easy to remember.
19 The next Wednesday, Bob, Tracy, Jim Tagliani, and I rented a Lincoln towncar to make the trip a little more comfortable. We all owned compact cars and the round trip out to Groom Lake was a killer. We arrived, turned our lights off and went in about 5 miles on the Groom Lake road. We pulled off on a side road and unloaded our video camera, telescope, binoculars, etc. out of the trunk. We left the trunk lid open.
The disc came up around the same place. But this time, it staged a breathtaking performance. It repeated moves similar to the week before. But this time, it came down the mountain range toward us. At first, it seemed far away. Then you’d
It wasn’t the same sensation as seeing a set of headlights on a car or landing lights on a jet approach you at night time. There was no sense of continual movement toward you. It just sort of “jumps” toward you. This is very alarming to your brain. Bob explained that this is because of its method of propulsion and the way it distorts space/time and light.
Bob also explained that the bright glow of the disc was due to the way it was energized. When the disc came our direction, it glowed so brightly that we thought it might explode so we moved behind the open trunk lid for protection. The fact is that an explosion was the only thing (other than the Sun) that we had ever seen be that bright so that’s why we suspected an explosion.
As we all look back on that now, it’s difficult to believe it came so close that we backed away from it. After all, it was probably still a few miles away and that fact reflects how brightly it was glowing. But the fact is that it did come that close and the event was much more thrilling than I’ve described here.
It, too, eventually sat down behind the mountains and we left. We have never seen anything comparable to this in the sky out in central Nevada since then. And we haven’t even heard other people’s descriptions come close to describing what we saw. Remember, this all happened prior to the Highway 375 sky watch becoming Ufology’s favorite past time.
The next Wednesday, April 5, 1989, we arrived shortly before dusk. On the drive out, Bob told us that he had been called to go into work the next day. Numerous security vehicles were sweeping the roads that the cattle ranchers use to round-up their cattle after open range grazing. It seemed that this night, more than the previous Wednesday nights, they wanted to make sure no one was outside of Area- 51.
We tried to sneak in using our usual “stealth” mode. But security saw our brake lights and began to chase us. We tried to beat them out to the highway. But they came from all directions and ultimately we had to stop. We told them we were simply out there star-gazing which they didn’t believe for one moment. They agreed that they couldn’t chase us off of public land but simply said they would “prefer” that we retreat back up to the highway. They issued us a copy of a written warning that said we were approaching a Military installation and it stated the Nevada Revised Statutes which cited the penalties for taking pictures of the base, etc.
So much for those UFO researchers who say that the Government won’t admit that Area-51 exists. If that warning isn’t an admission, I don’t know what is. We went back up to the highway. But we didn’t leave.
A short time later a Lincoln County cop named LaMoreaux pulled us over and hassled us. He took our I.D.s and radioed our identities into the security base station. It was obvious that the guards and the Sherriff’s office worked together. He let us go and we went back home. 20
The next day when Bob reported to EG&G, Dennis Mariani stopped him and told him they wouldn’t be flying out to Groom. Instead, they took Bob’s car and drove out to Indian Springs Air Force Base (a small rural base about an hour north of Las Vegas). On the drive out, Mariani sarcastically told Bob that when they told Bob this was top-secret, they presumed that he understood that meant not to bring his family or friends out to watch a disc test. He also told Bob that our shenanigans outside of Area-51 had caused them to postpone a “high performance” disc test. Mariani was totally silent for most of the rest of the drive.
At Indian Springs, Bob was debriefed and reprimanded for bringing us out to watch the disc test. They didn’t know we had been successful the 2 previous Wednesdays. They helicoptored the head security man in from Area-51 to identify Bob as one of the people he saw when they stopped us the night before. They told him that if they caught any of the rest of us out there again, they’d arrest us for espionage. Bob explained that he couldn’t tell us what to do and also reminded them that we were on public land. They explained that they would simply claim that we were on Government land and that a judge would certainly believe 20 of them before he’d believe us. They blatantly stated that they would collectively lie to get us convicted, not that we were surprised by that. That was certainly enough to keep me away from there (at least for a while).
They also showed Bob transcripts of Tracy’s phone conversations with her boyfriend/flight instructor. Bob already knew about the affair. But he was shocked to see that they had actual typed transcripts of her conversations. Since they now knew that he was aware of the affair, they considered him to be a sure candidate for emotional instability. They revoked his security clearance and said he could reapply in 6-to-9 months. They let him go back home that night, but they apparently weren’t done with him yet.
A short time later, they called and demanded his presence back out on the Nevada Test Site. But Bob refused. He knew that they had no intention of letting him go this time and he was not about to volunteer to help them out. Dennis Mariani called and threatened him. But Bob stood firm.
After losing his wife and the most important job a scientist could ever have, Bob was pretty much a broken man. His concern for their efforts at retaliation caused him to decide to go on television in silhouette and tell the story of what was going on out in central Nevada. After he did that, they shot his back tire out one evening as he was driving up an entrance ramp to get on the highway. T his was an extra hint at what was in store for him if he didn’t shut up.
Bob had decided to work with George Knapp to expose the story. This was an aggressive move on his part to try and gain some leverage. If he went high profile, he could force them to adopt a hands-off policy. After going high profile if they incarcerated him or killed him, they would have confirmed that what he was saying was true. And that was definitely not their desire.
At this point, we all agreed that there was great power in knowing that someone was listening on the phone. People watch what they say when they suspect their phone line is
21 Finally, Dennis Mariani contacted Bob and send he wanted to meet and speak with Bob on a “personal level”. Bob set up the meeting at the Union Plaza casino in downtown Las Vegas. The meeting was set for 8:00 PM on Saturday night when there’s be plenty of witnesses if anything bad happened. Joe Vaninetti happened to be in town from Los Alamos that weekend. We created a stealth plan and Joe and I accompanied Bob down to the Union Plaza hotel.
Bob entered first and a short time later, Joe and I entered and sat down to play the slot machines as though we were tourists. Bob walked around and looked for Mariani. At first, he couldn’t find him. Bob even paged him on the house phone.
Finally, Bob saw Mariani approaching in a crowd of people and walked up to him. Mariani wouldn’t make eye contact with Bob and walked on by as if Bob wasn’t there. Bob also noticed another security man from S4 over by the wall on the other side of the crowd. Bob casually walked by Joe and I and told us what happened without looking at us or appearing to socialize with us. From a distance, he then saw Mariani walk into another part of the casino.
Bob asked me to go into that other part of the casino with him but to stay out of sight. He wanted someone else to be able to visually identify Dennis Mariani. We entered in a crowd and Bob pointed out Mariani who was now sitting at a blackjack table. I went and hid behind a bank of slot machines behind Mariani. I was only about 20 feet from him and I had a clear view of him. He looked exactly as Bob had described him. 30-to-40 years old, medium build, blonde hair, and a tightly cropped blonde mustache. This night, he was also smoking a slender cigar.
Mariani’s manor was quite curious. He was sitting between 2 very attractive, very buxom, women at the blackjack table. Yet he would only look down at his cards and didn’t seem to be enjoying himself. This is unusual behavior for someone in the festive casino atmosphere of a Saturday night in Las Vegas. Bob walked down the other side of the blackjack pit parallel to a long bar. Mariani looked up and his head followed Bob as Bob made that walk. Since this was the only time he looked up from his cards ( especially considering the other available scenery), this indicated to me that he indeed knew who Bob was.
Bob walked around the blackjack pit and walked right up to Mariani and said: “Well, Dennis. You said you wanted to meet and here I am. Now what’s the deal?”.
Not only did Mariani not answer, he didn’t even look at Bob or acknowledge his existence.
Bob said, “Dennis, what-the-hell is going on, what is this shit?”.
Again, Mariani didn’t acknowledge him.
Bob came over to me behind the slot machines and we quickly formulated a plan to follow him and try and get his license number or something along those lines. Mariani was only out of our sight for less than 15 seconds. But when we looked back, he was gone. We hurried through the casino in different directions looking for him. We even checked the restrooms but he was nowhere to be found.
We went back to the other part of the casino where Joe was sitting and asked him if anybody fitting Mariani’s description had come that way. Joe said that no one who looked like that had walked by his area. We could only surmise that maybe Mariani was there to speak on a personal level and that the other security guy that Bob had spotted was a surprise to everyone, including Dennis. No one has seen or heard anything from Dennis Mariani since that night.
22 After this, Bob proceeded to cooperate with George Knapp who subsequently produced “UFOs, The Best Evidence”. George won the UPI individual achievement award for that special. During the making of that documentary, George tried to check out Bob’s credentials including his schooling and his previous employment. George could only find a record of Bob’s schooling at Pierce Junior College in California. Even Los Alamos denied that Bob ever worked there.
Bob provided George with evidence that he had worked at Los Alamos. This included the names of people he worked with, newspaper articles about him, and even a LANL phone book that listed Bob’s name in it. People were apparently going to great lengths to detach from Bob Lazar.
Eventually Bob cooperated with George in contacting Kirk-Mayer, the LANL sub-contractor that Bob worked for at LANL. Both Kirk-Mayer and LANL admitted that Bob had been issued a “Z number” of 094729 on May 18, 1982. But both said that they no longer had any record of Bob’s employment. (By the way, a “Z number” is some prerequisite identification number for anyone who works at any of the LANL facilities). Bob also provided George with his W-2 from S4. However, George ran into dead ends when he tried to find who deposited money in IRS and FICA accounts on behalf of Bob Lazar. The word was that some IRS and Social Security files are also classified.
In the months that followed, Ufology began to become more mainstream and much of it was due to George Knapp and others exposing Bob Lazar’s story. The Rachel Bar and Grill outside of Area-51 became the “Little A le Inn” and people began running bus tours out to watch the sky over Groom Lake. George Knapp received 30-to-40 phone calls on a daily basis which involved peoples reports and questions regarding all aspects of ufology. Journalists from all over the World were chasing Bob Lazar for interviews (and still are for that matter).
Then came the brothel bust. Bob was still a broken man. But when he had recovered enough to go out in public, he sought some comfort with a hooker. Now I don’t know how this looks and sounds elsewhere in the World. But in Nevada, this is no big deal. Prostitution is legal in the state of Nevada but illegal in the counties that house Las Vegas, Reno, and Lake Tahoe. However, this is just for show and it’s common knowledge that brothels and hookers in the form of escort services exist in these cities also. The police pretend to passively pursue this. But along with gambling, drinking, and entertainment, prostitution is part of the package.
Bob called a number out of the newspaper and happened upon a 40-to-45 year old madam/hooker who ran 2-to-4 girls out of a condominium project in the southeast part of town. This was an upper line condo project so don’t envision some dark sleezy place engulfed in red lights. Bob went there and did his business. But before he left, the hookers were having some problems with a stereo or something like that. And naturally, Bob came to the rescue. He fixed it for them and they invited him back for a "freebie".
Well, Bob went back more than once and in time, all of the girls loved him. Bob has this unique manor about him in which he treats everyone equally. When you interact with Bob, he never gives you the feeling that he’s a scientist and you’re not so you’re not worthy. He treated the hookers with respect, like friends and equals, and this was a breath of fresh air to them considering the attitudes they get from some people.
The madam explained to Bob that she had an ongoing affair with a member of Las Vegas Metro Vice and that as long as she didn’t do outcalls to the hotels, Vice would turn their heads and allow her to operate. It is unknown whose interest these cops were protecting in the hotels.
23 The madam also told Bob that she was an FBI, DEA, and Las Vegas Metro informant. Bob felt a sense of security because of all of this and proceeded to tell the madam how he could streamline her operation by installing computers, security cameras, and other electronic equipment. This appealed to her and she financed her brothel’s entrance into the computer age.
During all of this, something bad happened. The madam fell in love with Bob. She offered him 50 percent of the business to stay around. But once the electronics were installed, he was no longer interested. Since he wasn’t really interested in her, it was a drag for him to be around and he detached himself from her and the brothel. To say that she didn’t take this very well is an understatement.
So now television sweeps rolled around and George Knapp thought it would be a great idea to give his audience an update on what the now famous Bob Lazar had been up to since his exit from the program at S4. KLAS had set ratings records with George’s previous UFO special about Bob Lazar and they were interested in doing that again.
When George did the interview, Bob said (amongst other things) that he had installed a computer system for a local brothel. That was a bad idea. The fact that Bob had broadcast this on television reflected his naivety about the ramifications of his actions. The Las Vegas cops now had a problem. Here was a guy stating that he knew where a local brothel was and all they had to do was ask him it’s whereabouts and then bust it. The problem was compounded by the fact that the brothel was run by one of their informants and they were aware of her operation.
The madam’s Vice buddies explained to her that they had to bust her operation because of Bob’s televised admission. After all, the entire Vice department didn’t know about this. Just a couple of Vice cops that she knew and did business with. They busted the place and she blamed the entire operation on Bob, probably under their advice. She had a client list of some very high level Las Vegans including cops and they weren’t about to force her to make that public. They let her off with a misdemeanor called “Keeping a Disorderly House” which is Nevada statute from the early 1900s. I don’t think anybody even knows what that’s supposed to mean. They then charge Bob with 6 felonies.
These cops thought they could just hang this whole thing on Bob and be done with it. They soon found out that Bob Lazar had a large following and hundreds of thousands of people were scrutinizing this story. Naturally, most following Bob’s story thought this was a setup by the Federal government to discredit him and they may have been involved. But that is unknown to this day.
Anyway, under some of the most incompetent and questionable legal advice in history, Bob plead guilty to pandering and they dropped the rest of the charges. We all urged Bob to fight it. But he didn’t want to spend the money. This is part of his “I can do everything myself” attitude because his dad is a wealthy L.A. businessman and money would have been no problem. Bob simply won’t depend on anyone. Een those that love him and want to help him.
Prior to sentencing, Judge John Lehman questioned how it was possible that a guy with no previous criminal record (like Bob) would have plead guilty under these circumstances. He also couldn’t understand how the madam of the brothel wasn’t in front of him as a co-defendant. After all, in the madam’s original statement to the police, she admitted having become a prostitute in 1971 when Bob Lazar was 12 years old. The judge wasn’t buying that Bob coerced HER into anything. All of the judge's questions and apprehensions were stated on the record ON CAMERA and George Knapp still has a copy of the raw footage.
Bob was sentenced to 3 years probation and community service. Ironically, he completed his community service by installing yet another computer system, this time for Clark County, Nevada. The 24 guys down at probation would jockey for position to see who got to go visit Bob so they could talk to him and ask him UFO questions. He’s now off probation and we’re currently investigating the possibilities for a pardon. The whole thing was one bad dream and somewhat of a joke because there have only been a handful of pandering convictions in the history of Las Vegas and the others weren’t scientists with no criminal record.
Even after the brothel fiasco, Bob was still a highly sought-after interview. In 1990, I had an operation on my left leg which laid me up for 10 weeks. Since Bob kept turning down people who wanted interviews, I suggested we make a video tape. He said: “Who would want to see a video tape about all of that stuff?” I proceeded to question Bob at length about things and I proceeded to write the script of the “Lazar Tape”. Unless our distributors are lying to us, it has become the most highly purchased (and bootlegged) video in the history of UFO videos. The original was produced with elementary facilities and it is currently being remade broadcast-quality with state-of-the-art graphics and imaging. The rest of the story is pretty much history.
The story I’ve just presented you is in no way the totality of what happened. But it does present the basic facts. I’m fully aware of everything else that happened so I can answer questions on subjects and details that have not been mentioned here. No one knows everything so if I don’t know the answer, I’ll simply say “I don’t know”.
In this Synopsis, I’ve also given researchers, pseudo researchers, and “wanna be” researchers new tidbits to chase down and verify and to them I say “Go for it”. As you have just read, Bob went public to save his own butt and not to do a favor for everyone else. This is not to say that there isn’t a part of him that thinks we all have the right to know. His motive for going public should help explain to some why he is reluctant to participate in some of the current sideshows. That was never his intent.
I’d also like to include the personal observation that people who think Bob would perpetrate a fraud are wrong. He is totally self-sufficient and doesn’t care enough about what other people think to waste the time to try and fool them. If I had to describe Bob Lazar in one word, I’d call him “productive”. Bob doesn’t watch television unless it’s the news or weather channel. He doesn’t waste one moment of his life preoccuping himself with irrelevant minutia like the rest of us. Bob couldn’t tell you who was in the Super Bowl or the World Series. And if the baseball strike never ends, it won’t affect his life one bit. He’s busy with one scientific project or another and he certainly isn’t sitting around wondering what we’re saying about him on the Internet.
I know that this Synopsis in itself doesn’t prove a thing. I’m now going to write a counterpoint to the infamous “Lazar Timeline” and post that. I don’t intend to refute everything that’s in it. I just intend to put it in perspective. This story isn’t as simple as some guy with no credentials makes some flying saucer claims and then gets busted for pandering.
I fully understand everyone’s apprehensions about the lack of evidence of Bob Lazar’s schooling. If I didn’t know him, I would be apprehensive too. I wish I had been around when Bob went to school but I wasn’t. Anyone who has met Bob Lazar knows that you don’t know what he knows by taking 1 electronics course at Pierce Junior College in California.
When George Knapp couldn’t find any records on Bob, I asked Bob about it privately. I told him that if he did overstate his credentials, he should tell me and I would try and help him smooth it over. I certainly believed he worked at Los Alamos and S4 even if he had overstated his credentials. I believed (and still believe) that his story is way too important to lose its impact because of something like this.
25 Bob stood firm and didn’t change his story. I’ve seen him do this about other subjects and I haven’t caught him in a lie yet.
Evidence is abundant that he worked at Los Alamos. In the early 80’s if you worked at Los Alamos, you had to have a degree or be working toward one at the University of New Mexico at Los Alamos. That’s why there IS a branch of the University of New Mexico in Los Alamos. That’s probably still the rule. I don’t know. Since Bob was never enrolled there, obviously LANL believed Bob had credentials.
After you’ve read the preceding information and after we’ve had some questions and answers and dialogue on internet, I think you’ll have enough information to put Bob’s story in perspective. I’m aware of all of the different theories about him which range from total fraud to a subject of mind-control to who-knows-what. Most of those are based on misinformation by incompetent UFO researchers and blatant liars.
You don’t need UFO researchers and other assorted characters to pass judgment for you even when it comes to the physics of gravity propulsion and disc technology. There are numerous books available which are written to the intelligent layman and they explain how physicists know what they know and why they don’t know what they don’t know. If this subject is important to you, then do some reading and upload your own knowledge base. I’m comfortable with whatever conclusions you draw both for and against Bob Lazar, I understand.
The bottom line is that the only opinion that really counts for you is yours. All of our current opinions are based on the best information we have at this point in time and all of our opinions are subject to change based on new information. That’s true of Bob Lazar’s story, science, and life in general.
Up to this point, I’ve responded to all of you by Email. But now I’m going to do it on UseNet so any benefit of dialogue will be available to all. I’ll treat you as fairly and respectfully as you treat me.
Einstein was quoted as saying “Common sense is all the prejudices you acquire by the age of 18”. So use your common sense when you examine Bob’s story. But remember to expand your knowledge base at the same time. Bob Lazar is 100% certain that the S4 story is true. I’m 99% sure, saving 1% for the fact that I wasn’t there myself.
I hope my effort here will move your opinion up or down so at least it will have been worth the time one way or another. Please forgive any typos, spelling, or sentence and paragraph structure as I am not a professional writer and I haven’t found spell heck yet on my new word processing program.
Keep in touch.
-- Gene Huff
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/the-word-of-bob/
Lazar’s Story – Technical Tidbits
26 Over time, I’ve become very interested in the Lazar story, particularly from a technical viewpoint. Unfortunately, few of the interviews or statements he’s given went very far into technical areas. What I have done is assemble all info I could find regarding Lazar’s statements specifically on how the gravity drive operates and (to a lesser extent) how the crafts move through Space. (Please feel free to add “allegedly” and “supposedly” wherever you’d like!). I was looking for the overall picture and also for contradictions in his story. Judge for yourselves.
NOTE: Some of the interviews were simply question-and-answer sessions. In those cases, I took liberties of excerpting only pertinent questions and strung them together in the order asked and answered. In the case of the book and tape excerpts, there existed a certain flow. So I identified discontinuities by the notation [BREAK].
-- Tom Mahood
February 28, 1994 On the Record, KLAS-TV, Las Vegas, Nevada, 12/9/89 George Knapp, producer/host Robert Lazar, guest
Lazar: The first thing was HANDS-on experience with the anti-matter reactor.
Knapp: Explain what that is and how it works and what it does.
Lazar: It’s a plate about 18 inches in diameter with a sphere on top.
Knapp: We have a tape of a model that a friend of yours made. You can narrate along. There it is.
Lazar: Inside that tower is a chip of Element-115 that they just put in there. That’s a super-heavy element. The lid goes on top. And as far as any other of the workings of it, I really don’t know, you know such as what’s inside the bottom of it ... 115 sets up a gravitational field around the top. That little wave guide you saw being put on the top essentially siphons off the gravity wave and that’s later amplified in the lower portion of the craft.
But just in general, the whole technology is virtually unknown.
Knapp: Now we saw the model. We saw the pictures of it there. It looks really, really simple. Almost too simple to actually do anything.
Lazar: Right.
Knapp: Working parts?
Lazar: None detectable. Essentially, what the job was to back-engineer everything where you have a finished product and to step backwards and find out how it was made or how it could be made with earthly materials. There hasn’t been very much progress.
Knapp: How long do you think they’ve had this technology up there?
Lazar: It seems like quite a while. But I really don’t know. 27
Knapp: What could you do with an anti-matter generator? What does it do?
Lazar: It converts anti-matter ... It DOESN’T convert anti-matter! There’s an annihilation reaction. It’s an extremely powerful reaction. A hundred percent conversion of matter to energy unlike a fission or fusion reaction which is somewhere around eight-tenths of one percent conversion of matter to energy.
Knapp: How does it work? What starts the reaction going?
Lazar: Really, once the 115 is put in, the reaction is initiated.
Knapp: Automatic.
Lazar: Right.
Knapp: I don’t understand. I mean, there’s no button to push or anything?
Lazar: No, there’s no button to push or anything.
Apparently, the 115 under bombardment with protons lets out an anti-matter particle. This anti- matter particle will react with any matter whatsoever which I imagine there is some target system inside the reactor. This, in turn, releases heat. Somewhere within that system is a one-hundred-percent- efficient thermionic generator. Essentially a heat-to-electrical generator.
Knapp: How is this anti-matter reactor connected to gravity generation that you were talking about earlier?
Lazar: Well, that reactor serves 2 purposes. It provides a tremendous amount of electrical power which is almost a by-product. The gravitational wave gets formed at the sphere and that’s through some action of the 115. The exact action? I don’t think anyone really knows.
The waveguide siphons off that gravity wave and that’s channeled above the top of the disk to the lower part where there are 3 gravity amplifiers which amplify and direct that gravity wave.
Knapp: In essence creating their own gravitational field.
Lazar: Their own gravitational field.
Knapp:
You’re fairly convinced that science on Earth doesn’t have this technology right now. We have it now at S-4, I guess. But we didn’t create it?
Lazar: Right.
Knapp: Why not? Why couldn’t we?
Lazar: The technology’s not even ... We don’t even know what Gravity IS!
Knapp: Well, what is it? What have you learned about what gravity is? 28
Lazar: Gravity is a wave. There are many different theories, wave included. It’s been theorized that gravity is also particles - gravitons - which is also incorrect. But gravity is a wave. The basic wave they can actually tap off of an element. Why that is, I’m not exactly sure.
Knapp: So you can produce your own gravity. What does that mean? What does that allow you to do?
Lazar: It allows you to do virtually anything. Gravity distorts Time and Space. By doing that, now you’re into a different mode of travel where instead of traveling in a linear method going from Point 'A' to 'B'. Now you can distort Time and Space to where you essentially bring the mountain to Mohammed. You almost bring your destination to you without moving. [StealthSkater note: sounds like what the Spice Navigators used in the sci-fi adventure "Dune".]
And since you’re distorting Time, all this takes place in between moments of Time. It’s such a far-fetched concept!
Knapp: Of course, what the UFO skeptics say is yeah, there’s Life out there elsewhere in the Universe. But it can never come here. It’s just too darn far. With the kind of technology you’re talking about, it makes such considerations irrelevant about distance and time and things like that.
Lazar: Exactly. Because when you are distorting Time, there’s no longer a normal reference of Time. And that’s what producing your own gravity does.
Knapp: You can go forward or backward in Time? Is that’s what you’re saying?
Lazar: No, not essentially. It would be easier with a model. On the bottom side of the disk are the 3 gravity generators. When they want to travel to a distant point, the disk turns on its side. The 3 gravity generators produce a gravitational beam. What they do is they converge the 3 gravity generators onto a point and use that as a focal point. They bring them up to power and PULL that point towards the disk. The disk itself will attach ONTO that point and snap back — AS THEY RELEASE SPACE BACK TO THAT POINT!
Now all this happens in the distortion of Time, so Time is not incrementing. So the SPEED is essentially infinite.
[StealthSkater note: In Project Preserve Destiny, ELINT Sgt. Dan Sherman said that his off- realm comms stated they don't travel through Time but instead "evade it" doc pdf URL . But he never clarified what that meant.]
Knapp: We’ll get into the disks in a moment. But the first time you saw the anti-matter reactor in operation or a demonstration — you had a couple of demonstrations — tell me about that.
Lazar: The first time I saw it in operation, we just put — a friend I worked with, Barry — put the fuel in the reactor and put the lid on as was shown there. Immediately, a gravitational field developed and he said “Feel it!” And it felt like you bring 2 like poles of a magnet together. You can do that with your hand. And it was FASCINATING to do that, impossible, except on something with great mass! And obviously this is just a ...
And it was a REPULSION field. In fact, we kind of fooled around with it for a little while. We threw golf balls off it. And it was just a really unique thing.
29 Knapp: And you had other demonstrations to show you that this is pretty wild stuff, right?
Lazar: Yeah, they did. They were able to channel the field off in a demonstration that they created an INTENSE gravitational area. And you began to see a small little black disk form and that was the bending of the light.
Knapp: Just like a black hole floating around?
Lazar: Yeah. Well, a black hole is a bad analogy. But yeah, essentially.
{Thursday, December 28th 1989: KVEG Radio Interview}
Caller: With the gravity generators running, is there thermal radiation?
Lazar: No, not at all. I was never down on the bottom while the gravity generators were running. But the reactor itself ... There’s no thermal radiation whatsoever. That was one of the really shocking things because that violates the First Law of Thermodynamics.
In fact, I’m in the process of fabricating the gravity amplifier. But then I’m at a tremendous shortage for power. So yeah, I have even tried to do that stuff on my own.
Caller: Is there any electronics as we know it? Chips or transistors?
Lazar: No, nothing like that. Because of the tremendous power involved, too, there was no direct connection between the gravity amplifiers and the reactor itself.
Caller: Are the waveguides similar to what we use with microwaves?
Lazar: Very similar.
Caller: In regard to the long-range method of travel, isn’t a propulsion unit the wrong idea? I feel this device is creating a situation where it is diminishing or removing the localized gravitational field and long-distance body that they’re heading toward is actually PULLING the vehicle rather than it being pushed. Am I correct in this?
Lazar: The vehicle is not being pushed. But being pulled implies that it’s being pulled by something externally. It’s pulling something else to IT. IT’s creating the gravitational field.
Caller: Is there any relation to the monopoles which scientists have been looking for?
Lazar: Well, they’ve been looking for the monopole magnet. But then this [the UFO force] is a gravitational force.
Caller: What is the top speed of the craft?
Lazar: It’s tough to say a top speed because to say speed, you have to compare distance and time. And when you’re screwing around with time and distorting it, you can no longer judge a velocity. They’re not traveling in a linear mode where they just fly and cover a certain distance in a certain time. That’s the real definition of speed. They’re bending and distorting space and then essentially snapping it back 30 with the craft. So the distances they can travel are phenomenal in little or no time. So speed has little bearing.
Caller: You’ve mentioned anti-gravity generator and anti-matter generator. Are they different?
Lazar: It’s not a gravity generator. It’s a gravity amplifier. I get tongue-twisted all too often. The anti- matter reactor provides the power for the craft and the basic low-amplitude gravitational wave which is too low of an amplitude to do anything. It’s piped into the gravity amplifiers which are found at the bottom of the craft. There it’s amplified into an extremely powerful wave and that’s what the craft is flown on. But there is an anti-matter reactor. That’s what provides the power.
Caller: I understand there’s an antenna section in this device. What is the resonant frequency that that operates at?
Lazar: The resonant frequency of the gravity wave I do know but I don’t know it off hand. I just can’t remember it.
Mark: Can you give me a ballpark like 2,000 kilohertz?
Lazar: I really don’t remember. It’s a really odd frequency.
Mark: Is it measured in kilohertz or gigahertz or megahertz?
Lazar: I really don’t remember.
Burt: You were talking about the low- and high-speed modes and the control factors in there. Can you describe those modes and what the ship looks like each time it is going through those modes?
Lazar: The low-speed mode — and I REALLY wish I could remember what they call these but I can’t as I can’t remember the frequency of the wave –the low-speed mode: The craft is very vulnerable. It bobs around. And it’s sitting on a weak gravitational field sitting on 3 gravity waves.
And it just bounces around. And it can focus the waves behind it and keep falling forward and hobble around at low speed.
The second mode: They increase the amplitude of the field and the craft begins to lift. It performs a ROLL maneuver. It begins to turn, roll, begins to turn over. As it begins to leave the Earth’s gravitational field, they
Burt: Did you actually bench-test a unit away from the craft itself?
Lazar: The reactor, yeah.
Burt: About how large is this and could you describe it?
Lazar: The device itself is probably a plate about 18 inches square. I said 'diameter' before but it is square. There’s a half-sphere on top where the gravity wave is tapped off of. But that’s about the size of it. 31
Jim from Las Vegas: On TV, you spoke of observing a demonstration of this anti-matter gravity wave controller device. And you made a mock-up copy?
Lazar: A friend made one, yeah.
Jim: I heard you speak of bouncing golf balls off of this anti-gravity field?
Lazar: Yeah.
Jim: And also about the candle, the wax, and the flame stood still?
Lazar: Right.
Jim: And then the hole that you saw appear ...
Lazar: It wasn’t a hole. It was a little disk.
Jim: Under what conditions did you see this demonstrated? Elaborate on this. And how large was the force field?
Lazar: The force field where the candle was?
Jim: The force field created by the anti-matter device.
Lazar: It was about a 20-inch radius from the surface of the sphere.
Jim: Where was this area? Just above the device?
Lazar: Yeah, surrounding the sphere.
Jim: Did the sphere surround the device?
Lazar: No. The sphere sits in the center of the device. It’s a half-sphere sitting on a plate and a field surrounds the half-sphere.
Jim: And you just place a candle in there?
Lazar: No, no, no. That was a separate demonstration. I’m just telling you where the field EXTENDS from.
Jim: Oh. That’s what I’m curious about.
Lazar: No, they tap the field off using a waveguide off of the sphere. And this is a completely different setup where they had a mockup small gravity amplifier. There were 3 focused into a point and that area of focus was probably 9-or-10 inches in diameter.
Jim: They displaced this area or moved this area?
Lazar: No, it wasn’t displaced. It’s just where the field was generated.
32 Jim: And in there you put the candle?
Lazar: Right.
Jim: And that thing can actually bounce golf balls off of it?
Lazar: No, no. The golf ball thing, again, had nothing to do with that setup. The golf ball thing had something to do with just when the reactor was energized before the waveguide was put on or anything. We were just pushing on the field. It was being demonstrated to me and we just bounced a golf ball off the top.
March, April 1990 (approximate time of interviews):
Alien Contact by Timothy Good. Published by William Morrow and Company in 1991 & 1993. This book was also published under the title Alien Liaison: The Ultimate Secret. Some of the Lazar info is a rehash of earlier interviews with Knapp and excerpts from his tape. However, there are some new stuff and drawings by Lazar.
… The craft does not create an “antigravity” field as some have surmised. “It’s a gravitational field that’s out-of-phase with the current one,” Lazar explained in a 1989 radio interview. “It’s the same gravitational wave. The phases vary from 180 degrees to zero… in a longitudinal propagation.”
[BREAK]
Assuming they’re in space, they will
That’s how it focuses and pulls that point to it. When you then shut off the gravity generators, the stone (or spacecraft) follows that stretched rubber back to its point. There’s no linear travel through space. It actually bends Space and Time and follows Space as it retracts.
In the first mode of travel around the surface of a planet, they essentially balance on the gravitational field that the generators put out and they ride a “wave” like a cork does in the ocean. In that mode, they’re very unstable and are affected by the weather.
In the other mode of travel where they can travel vast distances, they can’t really do that in a strong gravitational field like Earth. Because to do that, first of all, they need to tilt on their side, usually out in space, then they can focus on the point they need to with the gravity generators and move on.
If you can picture Space as a fabric and the speed-of-light is your limit, it’ll take you so long even at the speed of light to get from point 'A' to point 'B'. You can’t exceed it. Not in this Universe anyway. Should there be other parallel universes, maybe the laws are different. But anyone that’s here has to abide by those rules.
The fact is that gravity distorts Time and Space. Imagining that you’re in a spacecraft that can exert a tremendous gravitational field by itself. Y you could sit in any particular place, turn on the gravity 33 generator, and actually warp Space and Time and “fold” it. By shutting that off, you’d click back and you’d be at a tremendous distance from where you were. But Time wouldn’t have even moved because you essentially shut it off. It’s so farfetched. It’s difficult for people to grasp. And as stubborn as the mainstream scientific community is, they’ll never buy it that this is in fact what happens.
[BREAK]
According to Lazar, the propulsion system he worked on at S-4 gives rise to certain peculiar effects including INVISIBILITY of the craft. “You can be looking straight up at it. If the gravity generators are in the proper configuration, you’d just see the sky above it. You won’t see the craft there. That’s how there can be a group of people and only some people can be right under it and see it. It just depends on how the field is bent. It’s also the reason why the crafts appear as if they’re making 90- degree turns at some incredible speed. it’s just the time and space distortion that you’re seeing. You’re not seeing the actual event happening.”
[BREAK]
If the crafts look like they’re flying at 7,000 per hour and they make a right-angled turn, it’s not necessarily what they’re doing. They can APPEAR that way because of the gravitational distortion. I guess a good analogy is that you’re always looking at a mirage. It's only when the craft is shut off and sitting on the ground. THAT’S what it looks like. Otherwise, you’re just looking at a tremendously distorted thing and it will appear like it is changing shape, stopping, or going. It could be flying almost like an airplane but it would never look that way to you.
“How close do you think you have to get before time distortion takes place?” I asked.
It’s tough to say because it depends on the configuration of the craft. If the craft is hovering in the air and the gravity amplifiers are focused down to the ground and it’s standing on its gravity wave, you would have to get into that focused area. If you’re directly underneath the craft at any time, there’s a tremendous time distortion and that’s in proportion to the proximity of the craft.
September 22, 1990: UFOs and the Alien Presence by Michael Lindemann. Published July 1991. Available from the 2020 Group, 3463 State Street, Box 264, Santa Barbara, CA 93105. Very good Lazar interview as well as good interviews with Stanton Friedman, Linda Moulton Howe, and Budd Hopkins.
Lazar: I don’t know if I mentioned it before. But the amplifiers always run at 100%. They are always outputting a maximum gravity wave and that wave is phase-shifted from 0 to 180 degrees. That’s essentially the attraction and repulsion and it’s normally at a null setting somewhere in between. It’s a very straight-forward system. It looks more like a coal fired engine than very hi-tech.
34 Mid-1991: “The Lazar Tape”, 40 minute VHS videotape This tape produced by Lazar is his “official” statement in the matter done in a science lesson format. Although a little amateurish, it is still full of information and very worthwhile. Supposedly, there is a new version in the works with full production values. Release date of this new version is unknown.
“The Lazar Tape” is available from Tri-Dot Productions, 1324 S. Eastern, Las Vegas, NV, 89104 for $29.95 + $3.50 shipping.
The following are excerpts:
… And there are 2 specific different types of Gravity -- Gravity A and Gravity B. Gravity A works on a smaller micro scale while Gravity B works on a larger Macro scale.
We are familiar with Gravity B. It is the big gravity wave that holds the Earth as well as the rest of the planets in orbit around the Sun and holds the Moon as well as man-made satellites in orbit around the Earth. We are not familiar with Gravity A. It is the small gravity wave which is the major contributory force that holds together the mass that makes up all protons and neutrons. Gravity A is what is currently being labeled as the Strong Nuclear Force in mainstream physics. Gravity A is the wave that you need to access and amplify to enable you to cause space-time distortion for interstellar travel.
To keep them straight, just remember that Gravity A works on an atomic scale and Gravity B is the big gravity wave that works on a stellar or planetary level. However, don’t mistake the size of these waves for their strength because Gravity A is a much stronger force than Gravity B. You can momentarily break the Gravity B field of the Earth simply by jumping in the air. So this is not an intense gravitational field.
Locating Gravity A is no problem because it is found in the nucleus of every atom of all matter here on Earth and all matter everywhere else in our Universe. However accessing Gravity A with the naturally occurring elements found on Earth is a big problem. Actually, I’m not aware of any way of accessing the Gravity A wave using any Earth element whether naturally occurring or synthesized. And here’s why.
We’ve already learned that Gravity A is the major force that holds together the mass that makes up protons and neutrons. This means the Gravity A wave we are trying to access is virtually inaccessible as it is located within matter. Or at least the matter we have here on Earth.
[BREAK]
The most important attribute of these heavier stable elements is that the Gravity A wave is so abundant that it actually extends past the perimeter of the atom. These heavier stable elements literally have their own Gravity A field around them in addition to the Gravity B field that is native to all elements.
No naturally occurring atoms on Earth have enough protons and neutrons for the cumulative Gravity A wave to extend past the perimeter of the atom so that you can access it. Even though the distance the Gravity A wave extends is infinitesimal, it IS accessible and has amplitude, wavelength, and frequency just like any other wave in the electromagnetic spectrum. Once you can access the Gravity A wave, you can amplify it just like we amplify any other electromagnetic wave.
35
[BREAK]
So, back to our power source. Inside the reactor, Element-115 is bombarded with a proton which plugs into the nucleus of the 115 atom and becomes Element-116 which immediately decays and releases or radiates small amounts of antimatter. The antimatter is released in a vacuum into a tuned tube which keeps it from reacting with the matter that surrounds it. It is then directed toward the gaseous matter target at the end of the tube. The matter and antimatter collide and annihilate totally converting to energy. The heat from this reaction is converted into electrical energy in a near 100% efficient thermoelectric generator. This is a device that converts heat directly into electrical energy. Many of our satellites and space probes use thermoelectric generators. But their efficiency is very, very low.
All of these actions and reactions inside of the reactor are orchestrated perfectly like a tiny little ballet, and in this manner the reactor provides an enormous amount of power.
So, back to our original question: What is the power source that provides the power required for this type of travel? The power source is a reactor which uses Element-115 as a fuel and uses a total annihilation reaction to provide the heat which it converts to energy making it a compact, lightweight, efficient, onboard power source.
I’ve got a couple of quick comments on Element-115 for those of you that are interested. By virtue of the way it’s used in the reactor, it depletes very slowly and only 223 grams of 115, which is just under 1/2 a pound, can be utilized for a period of 20-to-30 years.
Element-115’s melting point is 1740 C.
I need to state here that even though I had hands-on experience with Element-115, I didn’t melt any of it down and I didn’t use any of it for 20-to-30 years to see if it depleted.
[BREAK]
Now when a disk travels near another source of gravity, such as a planet or moon, it doesn’t use the same mode of travel that we learned about in our science lesson. When a disk is near another source of gravity like Earth, the Gravity A wave which propagates outward from the disk is phase-shifted into the Gravity B wave which propagates outward from the Earth, and this creates lift. The gravity amplifiers of the disk can be focused independently and they are pulsed and do not stay on continuously.
When all three of these amplifiers are being used for travel, they are in the delta configuration. When only one is being used for travel it is in the omicron configuration.
As the intensity of the gravitational field around the disk increases, the distortion of space-time around the disk also increases. And if you could see the space-time distortion, this is how it would look…
[Draws a side-view picture of saucer hovering above ground with field surrounding it and running straight down to the ground. Picture a disk on the end of a pole. Then throw a sheet over it.]
36 As you can see, as the output of the gravitational amplifiers becomes more intense, the form of space-time around the disk not only bends upward but at maximum distortion actually folds over into almost a heart shape around the top of the disk.
Now remember, this space-time distortion is taking place 360 degrees around the disk. So if you were looking at the disk from the top, the space-time distortion would be in the shape of a doughnut. When the gravitational field around the disk is so intense that the space-time distortion around the disk achieves maximum distortion and is folded up into this heart shaped form, the disk can’t be seen from any vantage point and for all practical purposes is invisible. All you could see would be the sky surrounding it.
May 1, 1993: “Bob Lazar at The Ultimate UFO Seminar” at Rachel, Nevada A complete 27-page transcript is available for $8 + $2 shipping ($5 overseas) from Glen Campbell, HCR Box 38, Rachel NV 89001
Question: I’m interested in a little bit more about the physics of the power generation from the development of the anti-matter to the Gravity “A” wave and the amplification and the process of generation of that and being able to fold space.
Lazar: Well, it’s… I can give you, I guess, a brief overview of essentially how that works. If you want an in-depth description, you can give me your address and I can send you a paper on it. Essentially, what the reactor does is provide electrical power and the base gravity wave to amplify. It does that by interacting matter and antimatter, essentially. The way it does that is injecting an accelerated proton into a piece of 115. That spontaneously generates anti-hydrogen, essentially. That’s reacted in a small area. It’s a compressed gas, probably compressed atmospheric gas. And the antimatter reacting with matter produces the energy -- mainly heat energy -- and that is converted into electrical energy by a thermionic generator that appeared to be 100% efficient. Which is a difficult concept to believe anyway.
Also, the reactor has two functions. That’s one of them. The other function is it provides the basic gravity wave that’s amplified and that appears at the upper sphere of the amplifier itself. That’s tapped off with a waveguide similar to microwaves and is amplified and focused, essentially.
Question: So how is the electrical energy related to the amplification of the gravitational 'A' wave energy?
Lazar: The electrical energy is transmitted essentially without wires. I related it to almost a Tesla setup. It seemed like each sub component on the craft was attuned to the frequency that the reactor was operating at. So essentially the amplifiers themselves received the electrical energy like a Tesla coil transmits power to a fluorescent tube.
What was the rest of the question?
Question: Yeah. In other words, what is the relationship between… I think you basically answered it.
Lazar: Yeah. That’s how the amplifiers receive the power and through the waveguide to receive the basic wave. It’s almost… It’s very, very similar to a microwave amplifier…
Question: Was the local means of propulsion the same as this across-space distances? What was the local means of propulsion? 37
Lazar: The local means of propulsion is essentially them balancing on an out-of-phase gravity wave. It’s not as stable as you would think. When the craft took off, it wobbled to some degree. I mean a modern day Hawker Harrier or something along those lines of vertical takeoff craft is much more stable than then in the omicrom configuration which is that mode of travel. The delta configuration is where they use the 3 amplifiers. Those are the only two methods I know about for moving the craft.
Question: When you listen to some abduction reports -- whether-or-not people believe it or not -- there seems to be a common thread of people being hit by blue beams of light….
Lazar: Any of the three gravity amplifiers could do that. Could lift something off the ground or, for that matter, compact it into the ground. That’s not a problem because the craft can operate on one amplifier in omicron mode, hovering. That would leave the other three (?) amplifiers free to do anything. So I imagine they could pick up cows or whatever else they want to do. On the craft I worked on, there was absolutely no provision for anything to come in through the bottom of the craft or anything along those lines…
Question: So what was the course of energy? How did it go from one area to another area?
Lazar: The best guess is essentially it operated like a Tesla coil does. A transmitter and essentially a receiver tuned to the transmitting frequency and receives electrical power. There again, that’s not real advanced technology. Tesla did that in the 1930s, I think.
Question: You mentioned the photon earlier. Do you think that Physics is taking a wrong turn by looking for exchange particles when you’re talking about the strong force of gravity again? I’m not clear why you’re skeptical about the graviton?
Lazar: About the graviton?
Question: Every other force seems to have exchange particles connected with it.
Lazar: No, not necessarily. I mean, they make it have one. But as time goes on, that really hasn’t held true. The bottom line is they don’t…
First of all, they don’t even believe there’s a graviton anymore so I’m not the only one. As far as exchange particles, still, though some of them like the zeta particle. Maybe that’s an actual thing. But when they’re looking at transfers of energy, I think these are scapegoats for the most part. A lot of experiments that I was doing at Los Alamos essentially was along these same lines. But other exchange particles like the intermediate vector bozon. I don’t believe that thing exists. I really don’t. I think they’re grabbing at straws and just coming up with excuses.
Question: What about the small gravity, the Gravity A; how can you detect that one? What is the frequency of that?
Lazar: Well, the frequency that the actual reactor operates at is like 7.46 Hertz. It’s a very low frequency. [StealthSkater note: Later, Lazar said that each of the gravity amplifiers rotated. And the base that they were connected to also rotated.]
Question: That’s the frequency of Earth’s gravity? Or universally, all gravity?
Lazar: That’s the frequency the reactor operates at. 38
Question: I can understand a reactor functioning ... Theoretically I can understand a reactor functioning at, say, (unintelligible word) 7.46 Hertz. There’s a waveguide involved. I don’t buy 7.46…
Lazar: No, that’s the basic… The frequency of the gravity wave that’s produced, it has to be higher frequency because you’re in a microwave range to follow a conduit like that.
Question: I understand from Lear’s lecture that it had a tendency to conduct on the outside also of the reactor.
Lazar: Right. Well, that’s all… This was the electric field we were talking about. The basic frequency, I think, was the way the reactor’s operating. The pulses that we detected out of it were probably, instead of a straight DC power supply, it was more along the lines of a pulse as if we were getting a burst of particles coming out. An antimatter emission, then a reaction, a pulse of energy, and that would repeat. That’s about seven and a half Hertz, something along those lines.
Question: Bob, the microwave frequency going to the waveguide is electromagnetic. Or that’s gravitational?
Lazar: They’re one and the same.
Question: I don’t understand what you mean by that.
Lazar: Gravity is… Unfortunately, Physics hasn’t gotten to that part yet. But gravity essentially is part of the electromagnetic spectrum. [StealthSkater note: This may go back to Einstein's unfinished Unified Field Theory which related ElectroMagnetism and Gravity doc pdf URL ]
Question: Then what frequency is it?
Lazar: That’s something I’m reserving for myself.
Question: Something about the microwave range?
Lazar: Something about the microwave range. Well, you can sort of figure it out by the dimensions of the waveguide itself. And that’s about it.
Question: Positive energy versus regular photon?
Lazar: No, it’s not a photon.
Question: Electromagnetic Energy?
Lazar: Right. I’m not trying to be secret. But this is part of the equipment that I’m working on and I want to get it operating before…
Question: I hope we’ll find out one day
Lazar: Absolutely.
39 http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/the-lazar-timeline/
The Robert Lazar Timeline as Assembled from Public Records and Statements Version 1.30, January, 1997 / Originally released July, 1994 by Tom Mahood
This project began as an attempt to verify Robert Lazar’s story of “vanishing records”. What was uncovered was not only a multitude of records but also records that portray an individual and story very much at odds with that generally accepted. Some of these records appear to contradict statements made by Lazar.
Every attempt has been made to make this document as accurate as possible. If any discrepancies are found, please direct them to the author for correction in any future versions. Likewise, if there are any readers with additional verifiable public information, please pass it on for inclusion.
What follows is a summation of statements, interviews, and records arranged in chronological order providing the framework of what is (by anyone’s definition) a most interesting life. Please note the information presented here consists ONLY of public records. While it’s highly likely detailed school transcripts (for example) exist, they are considered confidential and may not be released to the general public.
The implications of Lazar’s story are tremendous and if there is even the slightest possibility it might be true, it is worthy of detailed investigation. This information is being put forth as part of that effort in the hopes that it will provide researchers and other interested parties with areas for further study.
A question may come to mind. Could some or all of these documents have been “planted” to discredit Lazar? It is certainly possible as most things are. However, this would have entailed tampering with many reels of microfilm. Since none of the reels exhibited any splicing in the area of Lazar’s records, the only way these records could have been planted would be to replace the entire reel.
Also, the master reels from which the microfilms the public uses are made would have to also be tampered with even though they are stored in vaults. Furthermore, some of the documents available such as divorce proceedings are the actual documents complete with signatures. And throughout the files, the information appears to cross-correlate completely.
Jan. 26, 1959: Robert Scott Lazar (RL) born in Coral Gables, Florida The location Coral Gables is given in Timothy Good’s book. Good also states that George Knapp checked with the hospital RL claims to have been born at in Coral Gables and “... no records could be found.” [1] The date is from RL’s first marriage certificate, however only his State of birth is listed, not the city. [10]
A note on birth records in Florida. There are usually 3 different locations birth records are kept. The first, the hospital of birth, is also the least reliable since it not an “official” repository of records. Records may or may not be found there. The next source (which is very reliable) is the Health Department of the County of birth. However, the best and most comprehensive birth record source for the State of Florida is the State Department of Health and Rehabilitation Services, Vital Statistics, PO Box 210, Jacksonville, FL 322231-0042. (904) 359-6900 (Recorded info). This location maintains copies of all birth records for the State going back to 1917. 40
However, as a result of a State statute enacted in 1987, all birth records in Florida are now considered confidential. Copies (or even information from certificates) may only be issued to the birth registrant, the parents or legal guardian or a legal representative of the registrant. So it appears that no one can verify the claim that RL’s birth records have vanished without his written permission.
In more recent disclosure in an Internet newsgroup, Gene Huff (RL’s friend and partner) disclosed the reason that RL had difficulty obtaining a copy of his birth record was due to his adoptive status. But one was finally acquired.
1974: Social Security number issued in New York State. RL’s Social Security number and current address while in the public records have been deleted from this document in the interests of his privacy. However, the SS # begins with 068 which indicates it was issued in the state of New York. It is possible to determine from the remainder of the SS # that it most likely was issued in 1974.
August 1976: According to Stanton Friedman, RL graduated from W. Tresper Clarke High School (740 Edgewood Drive, East Meadow Union Free District) in Westbury Long Island, New York. His class standing was number 261 out of a class of 369. Further, according to Friedman, this would put RL in the bottom third of his class and entry into Cal Tech or MIT generally requires the student be in the top 10% of the class. [15] [StealthSkater note: There have been scientists who dropped out of high school or college only later to become world-famous.]
1976: Claims to have attended Los Angeles Pierce College [14] This has been confirmed by Stanton Friedman. After RL stated that one of his professors at Cal Tech was named “Duxler”, Friedman located a William Duxler (a Math and Physics professor at Pierce College) who was able to determine that RL had taken at least one of his courses in the late 1970s. Duxler said he never taught at Cal Tech. [15]
June 1977: RL’s parents purchased a home at 20650 Martha Street in Woodland Hills, California. (OR 77- 592189 thru 592191) [10]
August 1978: RL’s parents moved to 4914 Natoma Avenue in Woodland Hills. (OR 78-1030636 thru 1030638) [10]
1978: RL claims a Bachelor of Science degree in Physics and Electronic Technology from Pacifica University (correspondence university) according to RL’s Pre-Sentence Report for his pandering conviction (Case 94922). Pacifica was shut down in 1978 by the State of California for selling degrees.
“1977 or 78”: Claims to have attended Cal State University, Northridge “for a short time for some classes” and then on to CalTech. [14]
“The Big T” is the student yearbook for CalTech. At the Millikan Library at CalTech, every page of every issue of “The Big T” from the year 1977 through 1982 was checked. There is no photo or mention of RL anywhere in any of the activities, highly improbable were he a student there. Checking 41 by George Knapp [1] and Stanton Friedman with the administration revealed no records of RL’s attendance. Although Good reports Friedman has confirmed RL’s attendance at Cal State Northridge, Friedman says that this is not correct and he has not made any inquiries to Cal State Northridge. (There was a Robert Lazar who graduated from Northridge in 1978 with a degree in Business Administration. But examination of the yearbook clearly indicates he’s a different Lazar) [1] [15]
July 27, 1980: RL married Carol Nadine Strong in Woodland Hills, California. According to the marriage certificate, at the time of the marriage they were both living at 21619 Strathern, #1, Canoga Park, California. The certificate list’s RL’s occupation as “Electronics Engineer” and his highest school grade completed as 12. RL’s birthdate was listed as January 26, 1959 in Florida. Carol’s occupation was listed as “Electronics Technician” and her highest school grade completed was also 12. Carol’s date of birth was March 21, 1946 in California, making her 13 years older than RL. The certificate lists this as the first marriage for both.
Per the certificate, RL’s parents were Albert Lazar and Phyllis Berliner (maiden name), both born in New York state. Carol’s parents were Harold Strong born in California and Verda Jones (maiden name), born in Colorado. The marriage was witnessed by Chee Leung of 1485 1/4 Scott Avenue in Los Angeles and Lois Kurz of 15210 Sherman Way, #52 in Van Nuys. The marriage was conducted by Rabbi Bernard M. Cohen of 23300 Aetna Street in Woodland Hills, Calif. (Certificate # 1980 O-025327) [10]
“Probably 1982”: Date of claimed Masters Degree from MIT. (14) At Rachel-93, RL was asked for the year of his graduation from MIT and if he got a Ph.D. He replied “No, it was a Master’s degree. The year. What was the year of graduation? Probably '82 because I think I left there and went to Los Alamos.” Glenn Campbell checked the following sources at the Institute Archives at MIT (see reference [14]): Student directories between 1978 and 1990, Faculty/Staff phone directories between 1978 and 1990, MIT Degree List between 1979 and 1980, and the 1989 MIT Alumni/ae Register. There was no listing of RL in any of these documents. [16] Stanton Friedman has also checked with the MIT Registrar’s office and the Alumni office and has found no evidence of attendance. Friedman reports RL is not on the 1982 commencement list. [15]
1982: Listing in Los Alamos National Laboratory phone book, located by George Knapp. (8) Stanton Friedman states: “The phone book is not just from LANL but LANL, The Department of Energy, Kirk Meier (spelling uncertain) and others. The listing after Bob’s name clearly shows K/M which means Kirk Meier and proves he did NOT work for LANL but for a subcontractor. This seems appropriate since the Meson Facility mentioned in the Monitor article is a user facility with teams coming from all over to set up their equipment for experiments at the accelerators. As many as 1,000 people per year can go through there. They work at the Lab, NOT for the Lab. They do get listed in the phone directory. He apparently was a technician.” [15] Strangely, the bankruptcy file [13] in 1986 does not show employment at LANL or Kirk-Mayer (correct spelling) but only that of a self-employed photo processor.
May 1982: According to the Los Alamos Monitor, RL and Carol moved to Los Alamos from California. From the dates and addresses listed in the bankruptcy papers, it appears they settled in a rented duplex at 3964-B Sycamore and at some later date opened a photo processing business at 941-A 18th Street. [3] [13]
June 27, 1982: Los Alamos Monitor article appeared about RL and his Honda jet car. (3) The article which appeared on the front page identifies RL as “..a physicist at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility.” There are a total of 4 photos of what appear to be a Honda Civic hatchback 42 (California license plate JETUBET) with air scoops on the top and sides and a jet nozzle protruding from the rear where the license plate would normally go. The article says the engine composed of stainless steel and titanium runs for 30-to-60 seconds on liquid propane with a kerosene afterburner producing 800 pounds of thrust.
Oddly, “The jet cannot get the car going from a dead stop…” and must be driven in the normal manner up to about 90 mph. There is no compressor and RL claimed it was “... the most efficient jet engine available. A standard jet uses 6 pounds of fuel for every pound of thrust. Lazar said he uses 1.3 pounds of fuel for a pound of thrust.”
RL stated the car had been driven over 200 mph on a dry lake near Los Angeles. The article states the car “… attracts a lot of attention for the Lazars who moved to Los Alamos about a month ago from California.” From the article’s descriptions of the Lazars’ experiences in California, it appears they had been there for some time before coming to Los Alamos.
June 28, 1982: Dr. Edward Teller gives a lecture at Los Alamos and RL claims to have met him prior to the talk as Teller was reading Sunday’s newspaper story about RL and his jet car (The Monitor was not published on Mondays). [1] [3] The Los Alamos Monitor of June 29, 1982 reported on its front page that Teller spoke at length against the nuclear freeze movement in this Country. The article also said the auditorium at LANL was packed.
1984: The bankruptcy papers show RL borrowed $4,000 from his mother (Phyllis S. Lazar) and at the time of the bankruptcy filing had repaid only $500. [13]
1985: Per the April 1994 issue of Omni magazine: “…while on vacation in Nevada, he (RL) wound up buying into a legal Reno brothel. The investment proved so profitable that he didn’t have to return to full time employment for a while”. Per Good, it was owned by RL and Carol and called the “Honeysuckle Ranch” in northern Nevada. In the bankruptcy papers filed in 1986, no mention is made of any ownership of income from a brothel.
1985: According to the bankruptcy papers, RL purchased a 1984 Corvette for $19,000. Repaid only $550. It was repossessed in 1986 prior to the bankruptcy filing. [13]
1985: RL borrowed $15,000 from father (Albert M. Lazar) and had repaid only $1,000 by the time of the bankruptcy filing. [13]
1985: According to the bankruptcy papers, RL borrowed a total of $60,000 from Los Alamos National Bank, secured by a $7,900 1984 Honda. Repaid only $1,300 by the time of the bankruptcy filing. [13]
March 22, 1985: RL borrowed at least $12,000 from the Bank of Los Alamos for retrofit kits to the film printer(s) at his photo processing business and 300 rolls of 35mm film. Repaid only $300 by the time of the bankruptcy filing and the equipment was repossessed at some time prior to the filing. [13]
May 7, 1985: 43 According to the bankruptcy papers, RL and Carol borrowed $5,000 via a “3 Minute Loan” from Security Pacific Finance Corp. of Albuquerque, New Mexico. [13]
June 13, 1985: RL and Carol purchased a new home at 1933 Ann Greta Street in Las Vegas from R.A. Homes of Nevada (OR 2129:2088021). From the bankruptcy file and other documents, it appears Carol took up primary residence there and RL remained in Los Alamos. [11]
1986: Purchased 1985 Honda CRX for $9,000. Repaid only $300 by the time of the bankruptcy filing and was repossessed sometime in 1986 prior to the filing. [13]
March 26, 1986: RL borrowed $2,000 from John Horne of Los Alamos for down payment on a jet car. As of March 2, 1987, the debt had not been repaid according to the bankruptcy file. [13]
April 19, 1986: RL married Tracy Anne Murk at the “We’ve Only Just Begun” Wedding Chapel in Las Vegas. At the time, RL was apparently still legally married to Carol. No divorce proceedings were on file with the Clark County Clerk’s office and Carol’s published obituaries and death certificate identified RL as her husband at the time. The minister at the wedding was William Sharp and the recorded marriage certificate was mailed to 1073 Cheyenne, Los Alamos. (OR 0765:0400067) [11]
April 21, 1986: Carol Lazar died in Las Vegas. (4)(5) Carol Lazar’s death certificate (# 001423-86) is on file with the Clark County Health District, 625 Shadow Lane, Las Vegas, (702) 383-1223. The District will not release copies of certificates except to family members or in a few other special instances. However, the certificates are available for inspection by those with “legitimate interests”. This would include journalists and researchers. According to data on the certificate, the death was ruled a suicide and the cause was carbon monoxide poisoning. The method was given as “Inhalation of motor vehicle exhaust”. It occurred at 1933 Ann Greta. The case was referred to the Coroner. But no autopsy was performed.
Quoting the obituary in the Las Vegas Review-Journal, April 23, 1986, Page 2B: “Carol Lazar died Monday. She was a 2-year resident of Las Vegas and was a self-employed film processor in the photography industry. She is survived by her husband Robert of Las Vegas. Private services and burial were handled by Davis Funeral Home”.
April 1986: Per statements in the bankruptcy file, RL left Los Alamos and moved to Las Vegas. The addresses listed in those papers indicate he moved to the Ann Greta house. [13]
July 21, 1986: RL files for bankruptcy. RL voluntarily filed for a Chapter 7 (which is a liquidation) bankruptcy in Las Vegas citing “loss of business” and “death of spouse” as reasons.(Case BK 86-01623). [13] In the file, under penalty of perjury, RL stated his occupation was a Photo Processor; that he was self-employed at his residence; and had been so for 6 years. There was no mention of employment at LANL. When asked if he had been in a partnership with anyone or engaged in any business within the preceding 6 years, RL stated “No”. Within the preceding 2 years, RL stated the amount of income he received from his trade was “Unknown”. That he had received no other income from other sources and had not filed tax returns for the period.
44 RL stated that his records for the 2 years prior to July 1986 along with $15,000 had vanished with his accountant Scott R. Maxwell of Santa Fe who moved and left no forwarding address. RL said a police report on the incident was filed in Los Alamos.
RL also stated no other person was holding anything of value in which he had an interest. There was no mention anywhere in the documents of ownership (either part or full) of a brothel.
RL listed his monthly expenses for mortgage, utilities, food, car payments, etc. as totaling $2,360. He listed another monthly debt of $13,150 and although required to specify what it was, did not. Thus his total monthly expenses were given as $15,510.
Oct. 12, 1986: RL married Tracy for a second time. This time (for reasons unknown), Tracy used the name of Jackie Dianne Evans. Wedding was at the “Chapel of Love” in Las Vegas by Minister James B. Terrell (OR 0773:0431981). The recorded marriage certificate was sent to the Ann Greta address. [11]
March 19, 1987: Bankruptcy final decree was issued. Final accounting showed $173,250 in assets (home and photo equipment), and $270,324 in debts. [13]
1988: RL met John Lear, precise date unknown. [1]
March 16, 1988: A “Notice of Default” was issued for the Ann Greta house for failing to make payments from 7-1-87 and thereafter. The trustee of the loan declared it due and if not paid immediately, would be foreclosed on. (OR 880316:00333) [11]
March 22, 1988: Tracy/Jackie purchased a home on LXXXXX Street in Las Vegas under the name “Jackie Evans”. The home was purchased from Michael and Carolyn Tutay by “Jackie Evans, a married woman as her sole and separate property”. Concurrently, RL quitclaimed any interests in this house to her (OR 880322:124 thru 127). (A "quitclaim" is a document transferring whatever rights or interests a property owner may have, if any, to another without any guarantee or warranty of title.) [11]
August 4, 1988: The Ann Greta house was sold at auction by the trustee for $97,400 (OR 880912:262). [11]
December 1988: RL began claimed work period at S-4. [1] According to Good, RL “... would be called by phone and told when to go to McCarran Airport where a Boeing 737 (probably a 737-200 belonging to EG&G) would fly him and others to Groom Lake. From there after waiting briefly in a cafeteria, a bus with blacked-out windows drove the remainder of the journey along a dirt road to an area estimated to be 10-to-15 miles south of Groom Lake adjacent to Papoose Lake.”
March 1989: According to Good’s account, RL began initial interviews with George Knapp. [1] Per the Lindemann interview, they were done for “safekeeping” [2]. Curiously in a radio interview with Chuck Harder on the “For The People” show on November 17, 1989, George Knapp stated John Lear didn’t introduce him to RL until May, 1989.
March 22, 1989: First Wednesday night trip to Tikaboo Valley to view disc test. 45 Observers were RL, Tracy Lazar, Gene Huff, and John Lear using Lear’s RV. Lear was the only one who saw the elliptical-shaped light through a telescope and the total sighting lasted about 7 minutes. [1]
March 29, 1989: Second Wednesday night trip to view test. Observers were RL, Tracy Lazar, Gene Huff, and Jim Tagliani. They took a videotape of a moving light with a timestamp of 8:30 PM shown on the tape. [1] [2] [9]
April 5, 1989: Third Wednesday night trip to view test. Observers were RL, Tracy Lazar, her sister, Gene Huff, and John Lear. They were discovered by guards and detained and questioned by the Lincoln County Sheriff. [1] [14]
April 7, 1989: RL’s last “work day”. Debriefed at Indian Springs Airfield. [1] RL says that he was ordered to report to Indian Springs where he was interrogated about the previous night’s activities. In Good’s book, RL says “I was never officially fired and my clearance was never officially taken away” but that he refused to go back for fear of his safety. In Lindemann’s book, RL says “I didn’t actually leave. They denied my clearance.” The reason given for the clearance revocation was the instability of RL’s marriage to Tracy who RL claims was having an affair with her flight instructor. [14]
May 1989: According to sworn statements in the divorce records, RL separated from Tracy/Jackie. [12]
May 1989: RL’s first interviews with George Knapp were broadcast on Las Vegas’ KLAS-TV in silhouette using the pseudonym “Dennis”.
Nov. 10, 1989: KLAS-TV, which earlier in the week began a series of reports by George Knapp on UFOs, identified and interviewed RL.
Nov. 21, 1989: RL and Gene Huff were guests on the “Billy Goodman Happening” radio show on KVEG 840 AM.
Nov. 25, 1989: “UFOs: The Best Evidence” a 2 hour compilation of previous reports, is shown on KLAS-TV.
Dec. 9, 1989: RL appeared on “On The Record” hosted by George Knapp, on KLAS-TV.
Dec. 20, 1989: RL was a guest on the “Billy Goodman Happening” radio show on KVEG 840 AM.
June 5, 1990: RL was arrested in Las Vegas for pandering. [6]
June 18, 1990: RL plead guilty to a felony charge of pandering in District Court. [6] According to the LV Sun: “The guilty plea was part of a plea bargain in which the district attorney’s office agreed not to pursue additional prostitution-related charges.” The story in the LV Review-Journal said that RL met prostitute Toni Bulloch as a customer and helped her set up her business in the Newport Cove apartments on Tamarus Street. The story also stated “The records show that Lazar later helped Bulloch in setting up the business; that he did indeed keep computer records of customers; and 46 that he also took at least a 50 percent share of her fees. Lazar was also interested in recruiting other women into the operation, the records state.”
July 25, 1990: RL is divorced from Tracy/Jackie (Case D 130180). [12] According to the proceedings of the case, RL received the house on LXXXXX Street and any equipment and/or revenue from his businesses known as “Jet Processing”, “United Nuclear”, and “Red Light Racing”. Tracy/Jackie received a pickup truck and various furniture and audio-video items. The proceedings also identified both marriages (i.e., first as Tracy and again as Jackie) and directed that Tracy/Jackie would retain the name “Tracy Lazar”.
August 20, 1990: Sentencing date. As a result of his pandering conviction, RL was sentenced to 6 months probation, 150 hours of community service, ordered to undergo psychotherapy, and to stay away from brothels. [7] The article in the LV Review-Journal said that although “state parole and probation authorities had recommended a 4-month prison evaluation of Lazar”, the prosecutor John Lukens said that the circumstances of the case were such that “Metro vice and the DA have no opposition to probation.” The article also said the court received letters supporting RL from George Knapp and Representative James Bilbray (D-Nevada).
Sept. 13, 1990: “Jackie Evans Lazar” quitclaims house on LXXXXX Street to RL, thus transferring ownership to him. (OR 900913:00477) [11]
Dec. 12, 1990: The IRS places a $4,897 lien on RL for taxes (OR 901213:608). [11]
May 1, 1993: RL speaks at the “Ultimate UFO Seminar” held at the Little A-Le-Inn in Rachel, Nevada. [14]
June 11, 1993: Daily Variety, an entertainment industry newspaper, reports “New Line Nabs Pic Based on Gov’t UFO Scientist”. Excerpts from the story: “The life story of former U.S. Government scientist Bob Lazar that was recently put into turnaround by Gruber-Peters Prods. has been put on an earthly fast track by New Line Cinema for director Chuck Russell according to Michael De Luca, New Line’s exec veepee/CEO. New Line finalized the deal for the untitled film on Wednesday after Lazar considered competing offers from producer Steve Tisch, Simpson-Bruckheimer Prods., and actor Steven Seagal, De Luca said.”
“De Luca said the pic will have an $8 million to $10 million budget and will shoot in fall or early `94 with a `94 release.”
Notes
In the above, “OR” means Official Record of the County Recorder’s office.
The dates shown reflect the precision with which they are known. Precise dates are used whenever possible.
Per Lindemann in UFOs and The Alien Presence, 6 Viewpoints, RL has been granted patents. Areas unknown. In a personal discussion with Lindemann, I asked about the patent comment. But Lindemann
47 was unable to recall even making the statement in his book. I have made several patent searches for anything by Robert Lazar with negative results.
Per Timothy Good, RL physically worked at S-4 only 6-or-7 days between December 1988 and April 1989. Per RL at Rachel-93, he flew in between 4 and 5 PM and left by 11 PM. Therefore, his total employed hours at S-4 must be 49 hours or less or just over the equivalent of one week’s work.
Document Sources And Availability
[1] Alien Contact, by Timothy Good, published by William Morrow and Co., 1993 (AKA Alien Liaison)
[2] UFOs and The Alien Presence, 6 Viewpoints, by Michael Lindemann, 1991, published by the 2020 Group, 3463 State Street, Box 264, Santa Barbara, CA 93105
[3] Los Alamos Monitor, June 27, 1982, page A1, “LA Man Joins the Jet Set – at 200 Miles an Hour”. This document is only available for on-site inspection and copying at the offices of the Monitor, 256 DP Road, Los Alamos, NM 87544. (505) 662-4185. This story has been transcribed and placed on the Internet.
[4] Las Vegas Sun, April 23, 1986, Page 8B, “Obituaries”. Available on microfilm at the offices of the Sun or numerous libraries.
[5] Las Vegas Review-Journal, April 23, 1986, Page 2B, “Deaths”. Available on microfilm at the offices of the R-J or numerous libraries.
[6] Las Vegas Review-Journal, June 19, 1990, Page 8B, “Source in Channel 8’s UFO series pleads guilty to pandering charge”. Available on microfilm at the offices of the R-J or numerous libraries.
[7] Las Vegas Review-Journal, August 21, 1990, Page 2C, “Judge gives UFO `witness’ Lazar probation on pandering charge”. Available on microfilm at the offices of the R-J or numerous libraries.
[8] UFO’s, The Best Evidence, video by George Knapp. Available from “Video Dave” at the UFO Audio-Video Clearing House, PO Box 342, Yucaipa, CA 92399, (909) 795-3361. Call for details and prices.
[9] The Lazar Tape, video by Tri-Dot Productions, 1324 S. Eastern, Las Vegas, NV 89104. This tape had been available at a price of $29.95 + $3.50 S&H. A newer, slightly more expensive version with enhanced production values is the final stages.
[10] Public records, Los Angeles County Registrar/Recorder/Clerk’s office., 12400 E. Imperial Highway, Norwalk, CA. (Marriage certificates are $13 each: 310 462-2137) (Real estate documents are $2 for the 1st page and $0.50 for each page thereafter: 310 462- 2133)
[11] Public records, Clark County Recorder’s office, 309 S. 3rd Street, (or PO Box 551510) Las Vegas, NV 89155- 1510. (702) 455-4336. Cost for Official Records is $1.00 per page. Certified marriage certificates are $7.00.
48 [12] Public records, Clark County Clerk’s office, 200 S. 3rd Street (or PO Box 551601) Las Vegas, NV 89155-1601. (702) 455-4411. Cost varies per document. Call.
[13] Public records, Case BK 86-01623, US Federal Bankruptcy Court, Las Vegas.(702) 388-6257. Cost for bankruptcy papers is a $25.00 retrieval fee and about $8.00 for copying the roughly 120 pages of information.
[14] Public question and answer session by RL on May 1, 1993 at Rachel, Nevada. “Bob Lazar at The Ultimate UFO Seminar” transcript available from Glenn Campbell, PO Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001. Cost is $8.00 plus $2.00 postage (Overseas airmail is $5.00).
[15] Personal correspondence with Stanton Friedman, dated June 27, 1994. Quoted with permission.
[16] Documentation of Glenn Campbell’s search for RL’s records and instructor at MIT is available from him at PO Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001. Include $1.00 for copying and postage (This info is included as part of reference 14).
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/bobs-jetcar-article/ L.A. Man Joins The Jet Set At 200 Miles-An-Hour Publication: Los Alamos Monitor, Page A1 and A8 Date: Sunday, June 27, 1982 by Terry England, Monitor Staff Writer [Article located and transcribed by Tom Mahood. Posted to alt.paranet.ufo on 9 Jun 1994.]
The custom California license plate says “JET-U-BET.” This isn’t an idle boast unlike so many other California license plates that pronouncea car a jet.
This car -- a Honda -- has a real jet engine in it. And the jet engine can move that car: up to 200 mph.
The car already was in the family and it had room to hold the engine. So with a little modification and a little outside help, a Honda became a jet car.
Why?
“There’s no real reason except for going fast,” said Bob Lazar, builder of the engine. “It’s going through various transitions and it’s always half done.”
It’s not the car so much that’s important. To Lazar, a physicist at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility, the important thing is the jet engine. It’s something he’s been working on for years. It started “a while ago” when working with another researcher in NASA on the technology. Lazar modified the original design “and put out more power.”
His first jet powered device was a bicycle on which he hit 100 mph. “The cops saw that and put a stop to it for fear of safety,” he said.
49 The engine (the second for the Honda) is made of stainless steel and titanium and burns liquid propane. The jet is capable of putting out 1,600 pounds of thrust, (although it has been cut back to 800 pounds for various reasons). The first jet engine was smaller and the exhaust was right behind the license plate holder. When the jet was to be fired, the holder was moved out of the way. One time, someone forgot and the metal plate was shattered by the force. The Lazars keep a piece as a souvenir.
The waste products are water vapor and carbon dioxide. An afterbuner that uses kerosene increases the jet’s efficiency 50 percent, he said.
In tests at a dry lake bed near Los Angeles, the car hit over 200 mph, he said. The standard gasoline engine still works and is used to get the car going to about 90 mph. The engine is then put into neutral and the jet engine is kicked in for 30 to 60 seconds.
When the car hit 200 mph, the driver (a friend of the Lazars) came back “white as a sheet.”
The Honda isn’t made for high-speed driving. Indeed, the total thrust slightly above 1600 pounds is about the same as the car weighs.
“Theoretically, the car should become airborne if the thrust exceeds the weight,” he said. ”If you hit a rock, you’re in trouble. That’s one reason we cut down the thrust.”
Besides the rear-area modifications, Lazar said he had to put in 2 steel beams in the floor of the car because Hondas do not have frames. Fiberglass was used to remold the body so air scoops could be added to the roof and sides.
A firewall protects the driver and passenger from the heat of the engine. The temperature in the engine compartment reaches 200 degrees, the limit because of the air flow. Parts of the engine will glow white hot.
At one point, the Lazars were almost out of money and the car was unfinished. “That’s when the commercial firms help out,” he said. Word was getting around California about the car and offers began to come in.
“I went to a tire dealer and asked for some tires for the car,” he said. "The man asked ‘Is that your jet car parked out there?’ I said yes and he said ‘Goodrich has been trying to get ahold of you. I’ve got four tires here they want to give you.’ They cost $100 apiece',” he said.
So it went. The car received a custom paint job, new tires, new seats, and new tire rims (which Lazar never picked up). All free “as long as we put their names on the car.”
The jet cannot get the car going from a dead stop which enables Lazar and his wife Carol to demonstrate the engine to reporters. The car was driven (in the usual manner) to the Pueblo High School parking lot Saturday where Lazar started the engine about 4 times.
One of the oddest sights is this little foreign car sitting in an empty lot making noise like a jet plane. Lazar explained that the sound waves in the intake are synchronized with the sound waves from the exhaust adding to the din. The waves travel in a V from the exhaust. Moving around the rear of the car subjects one’s ears to a real cacophonous assault.
50 The noise level in the passenger compartment isn’t as bad, Lazar said. That may be. But the sound carries far and wide. A gentleman later told Lazar he heard the noise from the “topmost street” above Urban Park.
The police are familiar with the vehicle, too. During the demonstration, a county policeman drove up and asked “Have you been firing that thing?” He didn’t ask what was going on. He seemed to know. When Lazar said yes, the policeman said not to do it any more because complaints had been received about the noise.
“The police have been cooperative,” Lazar said. “They’ve been interested in the car and sometimes we’ve seen them come by and look at it.”
Unlike most jet engines, Lazar’s design does not need the huge bulky compressors. This is because the fuel already is compressed, he said, making it the most efficient jet engine available. A standard jet uses 6 pounds of fuel for every pound of thrust. Lazar said he uses 1.3 pounds of fuel for a pound of thrust.
New projects for the jet include an ultra-light aircraft powered by a smaller version and then possibly a race car with a larger version. “This will be strictly a race car,” he said. “The car will be designed around the engine instead of being placed in an existing car.”
The jet-powered Honda attracts a lot of attention for the Lazars who moved to Los Alamos about a month ago from California. Neighbors will gather around and look at it, sometimes in the middle of the night.
Most of the local people are interested in the technology which is a change from California, said Mrs. Lazar. “People looked at it and said ‘a jet-powered car’ and then tried to damage it,” she said. “A lot of people are frightened by it. I was at first.”
She has driven the car to 135 mph because, she said, “I like the speed.”
[End of article]
Photos That Accompanied The Story
Photo #1 shows Lazar at standing next to the rear of the car which appears to be about a 1979 Honda Civic hatchback. Jet nozzle is pictured about 10″ in diameter where the license plate would go. Name on the car is “Flame & Thunder”. Caption: “Lazar and his jet car: the license plate makes it very clear to other drivers what’s with this vehicle.”
Photo #2 shows Lazar and his wife about 25 feet behind the car with the jet running. Top and side scoops are shown. Scoop on top of the car is about 4″ high and 20″ wide. Side scoops appear 4″ high and 18″ long, just behind driver and passenger side windows. The scoops appear to only provide air into the rear hatch area, not direct ram air to the engine. Caption: “Bob Lazar attempts to examine the jet exhaust while it’s running, and as a result he is buffeted by the warm air. At that distance, he said, the heat isn’t that great. While he wears earmuffs, his wife Carol holds her hands over her ears in the background.”
51 Photo #3 shows steering wheel and part of dash. Caption: “A tiny button near the rim of the steering wheel starts the jet. Two gauges on the control panel in the background give the pressure and fuel amount.”
Photo #4 is an inside view of the rear hatch area from the outside. Caption: “The jet is the horizontal tube. The dark tank in the corner holds the liquid propane fuel. The vertical portion is an air scoop. The car itself is a Honda, modified only slightly to accept the jet engine including installing a firewall behind the front seats and air scoops on the top and sides of the vehicle. The standard gasoline engine still works; the car can be driven normally.”
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/los-alamos-interview/ Interview – Lazar in Los Alamos
The following is the transcript of a recorded telephone interview that took place on May 25, 1996 between Mark Farmer (MF) and an individual who knew Robert Lazar when he was at Los Alamos, New Mexico. The interview was recorded with the knowledge and consent of both parties. The individual being interviewed by Mr. Farmer has requested his name not be publicly disclosed in this transcript. So his name and any other identifying references have been removed.
[StealthSkater note: Along with Tom Mahood, Glenn Campbell, John Andrews, and Jim Goodall, Mark Farmer (alias 'Agent X') formed the Groom Lake "Elders", a group that researched advanced aerospace technologies at their own expense. Farmer, Andrews, and Goodall were all ex-Military doc pdf URL-doc URL-pdf ]
[Start tape]
MF: I got your name through ... Okay, we’re going there. As I was stating in my message there, doing a little follow-up on Bob Lazar -- and I got through some sources that he had -- you and he had known each other back when he was in Los Alamos. Correct?
A: Correct.
MF: Okay. Do you ... What was he ... Was he working for …
A: Before you go any further, who were the sources that you spoke to?
MF: Okay. I got your name through Mr. Tom Mahood who did some background investigation for the Lazar timeline. Have you heard of that?
A: No.
MF: He put together ... George Knapp is a journalist in Las Vegas who put out the original story that Lazar , you know, had been Mr. Goodwrench on the flying saucers.
A: Yeah. 52
MF: And we’ve ... Knapp had stated that he wasn’t able to find anything about about Lazar’s past. Well, Mahood is an ex-civil engineer and an associate of mine. A real straight-forward guy. He just decided to take it upon himself to start going looking through records and stuff. Well, he showed up in Los Alamos with his wife year before last. He started asking some questions and whatnot and came across your name from some other people who I don’t quite know. But …
A: I talked to a couple of people and I can’t remember their names. Stan Friedman was one of them. But I can’t recall the other people that tracked me down. So I was just curious.
MF: Yeah. [Indisc.] Actually it may have came through to Tom from Stan Friedman ’cause I know they have corresponded. But I would think that would be the extent of where your name has gone around. I’m just trying to find out whether-or-not do you know was Mr. Lazar working for anybody at the lab at that time?
A: Yeah. He did work for the Lab for a while.
MF: Was he working for Kirk Mayer?
A: That kind of rings a bell. Nut he was ... That he was a contractor.
MF: Okay. And was he a physicist?
A: He claimed to be. I don’t believe that he was.
MF: Okay. So he ... That was unknown then, we can say. You didn’t know either …
A: He claimed he had a degree from either Cal Tech or MIT or something like that. But I don’t think that that was ever substantiated that he had a degree.
MF: How did you meet him, Sir?
A: Well, I used to be a real gear head and he came into town. He had this jet-powered Honda. So naturally, I started talking to him. We became friends from there.
MF : Did you ever visit him at his photo shop or anything like that?
A: Oh, very often.
MF: Okay. Was the ... So you met ... I imagine that you knew his first wife Carol.
A: Yeah.
MF: What was the atmosphere around there? Was it professional? Was there lots of people hanging out there or do you remember?
A: The atmosphere, as far as being professional, I would say it was. You know, it wasn’t unprofessional. It was just a small shop, you know. I was generally one of the only people that came around there. They didn’t have a lot of friends.
53 MF: Did ... Is the story that I have received that he solicited you for some financial support for his jet car?
A: Yeah. That wasn’t the Honda. That was for a J-79 jet dragster.
MF: That’s the one he has now?
A: Right.
MF: Okay. And you helped him?
A: Yes.
MF: And did he ever pay you back?
A: Well, that’s kind of a strange story. Yes, I got paid. I was repaid about a year ago. It was at the height of all of this that where people were calling me and it ... I was told that he had a big movie deal going on and people were starting to dig into his past and find out whether he was on the level or not. And after I had talked to several of these people, a check showed up in the mail not too much longer after the last guy I talked to. So apparently, I think that he was a little bit nervous about me speaking with those folks.
MF: Was the check drawn on his account or was it a cashier’s check?
A: It was a cashier’s check.
MF: Okay. ‘Cause I’ve heard that a Mr. Bigelow with the Bigelow Tea family may have supported him on that one. [StealthSkater note: Robert Bigelow of Bigelow Aerospace is a firm believer in UFOs. He once established an independent science group NIDS to study them doc pdf URL ]
A: Yeah. It was a cashier’s check.
MF: Okay. What was the nature of your relationship? Was it that friendly kind of man on man talk about gear and jets and stuff like that?
A: Yeah. Yeah. That’s about the size of it. Yeah.
MF: And, did you find him as far as his knowledge of what you spoke about to be credible?
A: Yeah. You know, Bob’s not a stupid person. He’s very intelligent. He’s also very clever and kind of a little bit of a con man, I guess you’d say. He’s always got something going. But he is very intelligent.
MF: Did he ever ... I mean was there any circumstances or anything that he ever told you up to a point before he got money from you that led you to believe that he was ... well, not on the level with you?
A: Right after I loaned him the money, he had also -- him and Carol, his ex, his wife -- had claimed that they had bought a bordello in Nevada, okay. And that they were operating this bordello going back- and-forth, had a madam running it for them. And they would sell T-shirts and things with the bordello’s name here in the shop in Los Alamos. And I did a little checking on that and found out that there was no business registered under that name. And so, that’s when I started to figure out a lot of the things he was 54 telling me -- at least about his personal life and business dealings -- was untrue. But technically, he seemed to be fairly sharp.
MF: Did he ever talk about UFOs with you?
A: No, he didn’t.
MF: Okay. So that was never part of the talks. Did he ever talk about exotic technologies or …
A: Oh, yeah.
MF: Okay.
A: Quite a bit.
MF: Would they be like talking? Like I read this interesting story on this, or did you see on TV, or were they things that he had worked with? Did you …
A: He ... Iit was always seemed to be something he claimed he had worked with or invented or done.
MF: But was there ever any there any hardware to back it up?
A: No, not really. He was always building little electronics gadgets and things like that. Naturally, he built the jet. He was a relatively good welder. So as far as I said — as far as technical stuff goes -- he could back that up.
MF: That certainly seems to go with what I [indisc.] I’ve heard about him about being technically minded and at least in a hardware sense being adept.
A: Yeah. I would certainly consider him to be more of a technician than a physicist.
MF: Okay. So, you ... There was never ... What is your background as much as you would like to tell me as far as what you do and your schooling?
A: I’m a technician. I’ve had a few years of college and I’m journeyman machinist by trade.
MF: Okay. What was the amount of money that he borrowed from you for the car?
A: $2,000 as I recall.
MF: Okay.
A: And he was supposed to pay me $500 in interest.
MF: And the entire $2,500 was paid?
A: Yes.
MF: But how many years late?
A: Oh, five. 55
MF: Okay.
A: You know, there was actually... I told him, you know, I wasn’t able to give him that money for very long. And we had set up a deal that if he was late, he would pay a substantial penalty in interest of 10 percent for every 6 months it was late. And that was never paid. It was just the straight $500. But I was glad to get that back.
MF: Was there any contact after he left Los Alamos with you?
A: None whatsoever.
MF: Okay. So, he just up-and-left and that was it?
A: Yeah... Oh, wait a minute. I did get a hold of him. I tracked him down and I did get a hold of him by phone. And I reminded him that he owed me money. And he said okay. Basically the check’s in the mail. And I never heard from him again. He changed his phone number and things like that. So …
MF: And this is when he moved to Las Vegas from Los Alamos, then?
A: Yeah. And he had declared bankruptcy. He skipped out on all his debts in town. He owed probably about $60,000 to Los Alamos National Bank for the photo processing equipment. He just skipped out on that.
MF: So it was a matter of here one day and gone another?
A: Yeah. He was gone within ... I mean it was overnight.
MF: Did your ... The nature of your relationship change once you gave him money?
A: No. Not really.
MF: You still hung out together, talked about gear, and stuff like that?
A: Yeah.
MF: How old are you, Sir?
A: 33.
MF: Okay. So you’re ... I’m 33, too. So you’re roughly... Let’s see. Lazar is in his late 30s now, I guess.
A: Yeah.
MF: So what was the circumstances on which you met? Was it in any professional capacity with the Lab or anything like that or just happened to meet up? Is Los Alamos a small town?
A: Very small town. I saw that car and I made it a point to go look at it.
MF: How did the request for money come about? 56
A: Oh, it ... Actually it was just a friendly conversation. He said that he was looking at buying this jet car and he couldn’t come up with all the money. And he was looking for some people to go in on it with him. And what it was gonna look like was for that money I’d end up pit crewing and going to races and things like that. Which never really materialized. Sort of a piece of the action plus the money and all.
MF: There’s been an interesting 2 interviews that have surfaced recently and we don’t quite know where they’ve come from. They showed up to another investigator in a computer disk coming from the Bay area with no return address. In it are 2 interviews conducted by a woman that were supposedly done in November 1992 and she was working for a major magazine. And the story was killed after Lazar’s credibility started coming to, you know, to the forefront. Were you ever approached by a woman back in 1992 to do an interview?
A: Don’t recall it.
MF: Okay. One of them has a man named 'Dick'. His name has been changed to keep his name unknown. He is a technician that works out at the Lab and was friends with Bob, talked about interesting things, and never flying saucers or stuff like that. But he would go to the photo lab. And he said there’s lots of teenage people hanging out there and that Bob had an Uzi at the photo shop. Do you remember?
A: That was an Uzi carbine, yeah.
MF: Okay, so that was there. And then there was another girl. Her name is 'Cindy'. It’s been changed. She said she was 14 at the time and Bob had approached her for ... Well, telling her basically she could make money in prostitution and that Carol had, you know, kind of passively approved this. Do you remember any sort of circumstances where they were both there and talking to young girls or young men?
A: Well, they mainly hired young girls to work in the photo shop.
MF: Okay. Did you ever get any uneasy feeling about that? Or was it just like, you know, a lot of employers hire young people to help out?
A: Yeah. It just seemed like an employee relationship, though.
MF: There was never anything to make you feel strange about any of the things that were talked about or any of that?
A: No.
MF: I would be willing to send you a copy of these interviews if you’d like just for your …
A: Yeah. I wouldn’t mind having them to look them over.
MF: Sure. What’s your address?
A: [Address deleted]
MF: I’ll let you read those. Then I’ll give you a call back in couple weeks and see if there was anything in there that jingles any memories that you have. 57
A: Okay.
MF: And like I said, I would use our interview here with no attribution to your name or anything to make other people come and approach you.
A: Okay. Yeah, I’d appreciate that. Where are you at right now? I mean is this pretty much just discrediting him, saying look this is a hoax [indisc.] gonna deal with it anymore?
MF: Well, I mean personally, I ... I mean I keep running into the story and it’s somewhat of an impediment to any sort of serious research in the field because everybody gets stuck at the Lazar story.
A: Yes.
MF: Okay. It’s an interesting story and part of the mythology, and unproven, because there’s no tangible physical evidence or any corroborating evidence although it does have some links to other stories that come out that he may have heard either through the prostitutes that he knew or from other people of. Maybe Los Alamos labs or maybe people that worked at the nuclear test site in Nevada. But the credibility of himself personally is starting to unravel in a very public way now.
A: Yeah. Well, he was bounced out of the Lab because he was using Government equipment quite extensively to work on his cars. So …
MF: That was the reason he lost his job?
A: They found out about that and said "We’d like you to leave" and that’s when he opened up the photo shop.
MF: Okay. Were there any other people you think that would talk to me about this that you knew were also friends with Mr. Lazar?
A: There’s a guy up here. His name is Joe Vanenetti.
MF: Joe what? How do you spell the last name?
A: V-a-n-e-n-e-t-t-i.
MF: E-t-t-i.
A: And I do not know if he’s still in Los Alamos.
MF: Okay.
A: But I think Bob even lived over there for a while. I know of the friends he had up here and I think they were the closest.
MF: I’ll do a computer search and see if he’s there, one of the things. What I’m doing is I’m compiling all this. I’ve got 3 different magazines that are interested. I’ll probably also be publishing it as an on- line magazine just as somewhat in the same format that Mr. Mahood did the timeline to show what’s going on here so it’ll be a reference ... I mean the evidence is to the point now to where the movie deal is over, I believe, from what I heard. But there’s still major news outlets and documentary crews that 58 are out there still approaching Mr. Lazar for his story. And it’s still being ... And some people still find it true or at least the story is being perpetuated. He doesn’t talk either. He will rarely do an interview. But he has a front guy named Gene Huff.
A: Well, I actually saw him on network television doing some interviewing.
MF: What was your impression?
A: He comes across as believable if you don’t know any better about him, I think. You know, he had the whole town over there buffaloed pretty much, you know, that small town. I can’t even remember the name of it. But they’ve got his picture up on the wall in the bar in town, you know as being the great whistleblower, so.
MF: Oh, the town of Rachel?
A: Yeah.
MF: Out in the middle of Nevada. Yes, they do. They got his picture up on the wall. So in some ways, he’s being venerated as a hero by people who don’t do any serious research into it.
A: Right.
MF: Otherwise, I mean it’s not like I’m going out personally to take him on. But as an investigative journalist, it’s my job to do justice. So, I’m being dispassionate about this and just taking information as I get it and putting it out.
A: Yeah. Well, I’m not trying to tell you anything derogatory about him because of, you know, our falling out. It’s just that what I know about him, I know him to be disingenuous. And I don’t buy a word of it personally. So ...
MF: I appreciate your candor. I’ll send those out and then I’ll give you a call for your... In 20 days or 2 weeks. I thank you very much for giving me a call back.
A: Sir, you were mentioning that you worked with James occasionally?
MF: Yes. I’ve written twice on them. Once on the high frequency ...
[Tape ends midspeech]
59 http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/a-physicists-critique/
A Physicist’s Critique by Dr. David L. Morgan
In 1996, I was asked to review the content of a Bob Lazar website by an online acquaintance. Since then, my critique has been posted to Usenet discussion boards, featured on web pages, and taken on something of a life of its own. I still get email about it monthly which is quite amusing considering it’s been almost 5 years since I wrote it. Since the original posting was intended to be an informal email, the tone was somewhat harsh and flippant and some sections were a bit too dismissive. I decided recently that I would try to put together a revision of the now-infamous paper. That revision is presented below.
After reading an account by Bob Lazar of the “physics” of his Area-51 UFO propulsion system, my conclusion is this. Mr. Lazar presents a scenario which if it is correct, violates a whole handful of currently accepted physical theories. That in and of itself does not necessarily mean that his scenario is impossible.
But the presentation of the scenario by Lazar is troubling from a scientific standpoint. Mr. Lazar on many occasions demonstrates an obvious lack of understanding of current physical theories. On no occasion does he acknowledge that his scenario violates physical laws as we understand them. And on no occasion does he offer up any hints of new theories which would make his mechanism possible.
Mr. Lazar has a propensity for re-defining scientific terms and using scientific language in a confusing and careless way. For these reasons, I don’t feel that Lazar’s pseudo-scientific ramblings are really worthy of any kind of serious consideration.
I will focus on the parts of Lazar’s text which I took the most exception with- most of these excerpts relate to particle physics which is my field. Lazar’s text is in boldface. He begins by describing the principle behind interstellar travel…
"This is accomplished by generating an intense gravitational field and using that field to distort space/time, bringing the destination to the source, and allowing you to cross many light- years of space in little time and without traveling in a linear mode near the speed-of-light."
I’m less bothered by the wording of this passage now than I used to be although I still think it’s misleading. If you are distorting space-time with a gravitational field, it produces a very specific kind of distortion and a very specific kind of attraction. That’s what gravity is. A distortion in spacetime, at least according to General Relativity. And gravity attracts EVERYTHING. A gravitational field is a gravitational field. You can’t pick and choose which objects it has an effect on.
So going by what Lazar says here, I still say that if you were to generate a gravitational field intense enough to warp space-time and “bring the destination to the source”, you’ll also bring everything else in the nearby universe to the source too! If Mr. Lazar had really distorted space-time like this back in his “Area 51” lab, every object on the face of the Earth would have rushed into New Mexico. Before they crashed back in the 50s, the alien saucers would have sucked the Earth right out of orbit!
Now I’m no expert in General Relativity. But I believe that there ARE solutions in G-R which do involve distortions of space-time that are not “gravitational” in nature. (In other words, they would not 60 “attract” things outside of the distortion.) There are serious scientists that do serious work on wormholes and warp bubbles and other mechanisms which could allow faster-than-light travel by taking advantage of distortions in space-time.
As this research stands right now, it seems clear that the energy requirements which would be required by this kind of travel are unimaginable by any standards (even the most fanciful extrapolations of alien technology). I’m talking about an entire star’s-worth or even a galaxy’s-worth of energy! More mass/energy than could be contained in a tiny saucer or even all of New Mexico for that matter. [StealthSkater note: unless you can access the Zero Point Energy field that permeates the vacuum of Space itself where a beaker-full of the vacuum contains enough virtual energy to vaporize all the Earth's oceans according to Richard Feynman's calculations.]
"There are currently 2 main theories about Gravity. The “wave” theory which states that Gravity is a wave. And the other is a theory which includes “gravitons” which are alleged sub- atomic particles which perform as gravity which, by the way, is total nonsense."
These statements by Lazar are “total nonsense”. There is only ONE currently accepted theory of gravity: General Relativity. In G-R, gravity is described as a distortion of space-time, not as a particle or a wave. There are phenomena known as “gravitational waves” which exist in G-R. But this does not seem to be what Lazar is talking about. Lazar says that gravity IS a wave. It isn’t a wave. The “gravitons” which he speaks of are a feature of QUANTUM gravitational theories and I think they require a little explanation.
All physicists realize that the theories of Q-M and G-R are incomplete because they are mutually incompatible. In order to have a complete theory, theoretical physicists are looking to combine the 2 into a unified theory which will involve a quantum theory of gravity. There are currently no quantum theories of gravity that work. But even though a satisfactory theory does not yet exist, there is nothing at all nonsensical about gravitons. When an adequate quantum theory of Gravity IS formulated, the energy of the gravitational field will be quantized. This quantum of the gravitational field is what physicists call the graviton. It is no more nonsensical than the photon which is the quantum of the electromagnetic field.
(To add to the confusion of Lazar’s statement, in any quantum theory of Gravity as in all quantum theories, the graviton will be in a sense BOTH a particle AND a wave!)
The fact that Gravity is a wave has caused mainstream scientists to surmise numerous sub- atomic particles which don’t actually exist. This has caused great complexity and confusion in the study of particle physics.
As a particle physicist, I must say that I have NO IDEA what he is talking about here. Surmising particles that don’t exist? I can’t think of a single particle whose existence has been postulated as a result of gravitational theories. Perhaps the graviton is one. But that’s about it.
You must have at least an atom of substance for it to be considered “matter”. At least a proton and an electron and in most cases a neutron. Anything short of an atom such as upquarks and downquarks which make up protons and neutrons; or protons, neutrons, or electrons, individually are considered to be mass and do not constitute “matter” until they form an atom.
These are peculiar and nonstandard definitions. The standard use of the term “matter” includes anything which has mass. Even a single quark is considered to be a particle of matter. If a quark isn’t
61 “matter”, then what is it? All elementary particles are either matter particles or force-carrying particles. An electron is a matter particle and so is a quark.
It may seem like a small point. But I think that errors like these are what make Lazar’s “theory” so dubious. How can we give much consideration to someone who claims to be overthrowing the foundations of particle physics when it’s fairly obvious that he isn’t even familiar with the terminology?
Gravity A is what is currently being labeled as the “strong nuclear force” in mainstream physics …
This is the place where Lazar begins to get himself in real trouble. As it is understood now, the strong nuclear force has NOTHING TO DO WITH GRAVITY. Such a statement shows either a complete lack of understanding of the physics of the Standard Model of particle interactions or a BLATANT attempt at deception. The equations and coupling strengths which describe the 2 forces are totally different and unrelated. The strong force couples only to quarks and gluons. The gravitational force couples to all particles with mass. The strong force is extremely short range. The range of Gravity is infinite. The gravitational coupling constant is orders of magnitude smaller than that of the strong interaction. There is NO BASIS for using the word “gravity” to describe the strong interaction IN ANY WAY.
If Mr. Lazar has formulated a NEW model in which the 2 forces are really the same, then he has unified Gravity with the other 3 forces of Nature. He should publish it now and collect his Nobel Prize. If he DOES NOT have such a new theory, then his statement here is ABSOLUTELY FALSE.
It’s not good enough to just call the strong interaction “Gravity A wave”. You’ve got to demonstrate that it actually has SOMETHING to do with Gravity if you’re going to attach that name to it! The words by themselves are meaningless. I want to see some equations. Otherwise, this statement is not only wrong but utterly incomprehensible.
"… it should be obvious that a large, single star system, binary star system, or multiple star system would have had more of the prerequisite mass and electromagnetic energy present during their creations."
Now we get into some fuzzy astronomy. Mr. Lazar doesn’t seem to understand where heavy elements come from or how they are formed.
First, we have to assume that when Lazar says “large” he means “massive.” The “largeness” of a star says nothing about its mass. In 5-or-10 billion years, the Sun will be as large as the orbit of Mars. A star’s size changes drastically during its lifetime. It’s pretty clear that what Lazar should be talking about here is the MASS of the star.
The next section is a little vague. But he SEEMS to be suggesting that his Element-115 (the alien fuel source which doesn’t exist on the Earth) should be present in those solar systems that were more massive at their inception. The implication here is that a star system which condensed out of a more massive primordial cloud should have a greater abundance of heavier elements. This is quite incorrect.
Heavy elements (i.e., all elements heavier than Iron) are not formed during the normal life cycles of stars. The only time when these nuclei are “cooked” is during the collapse and subsequent explosion of supernovae. The supernova explosion then spreads heavy elements throughout the galaxy. For this reason, the abundances of heavy elements in any particular star system depend NOT upon the properties of the current star but on the properties of the nearby stars of the PREVIOUS GENERATION! 62
Therefore, all of the star systems in a particular region of the galaxy will have essentially the same abundances of heavy elements regardless of the mass of star. If Element-115 is STABLE as Lazar claims it to be, then it should be created in supernova explosions and it should exist EVERYWHERE!
"The most important attribute of these heavier stable elements is that the Gravity A wave is so abundant that it actually extends past the perimeter of the atom. These heavier stable elements literally have their own Gravity A field around them…
"No naturally occurring atoms on Earth have enough protons and neutrons for the cumulative Gravity A wave to extend past the perimeter of the atom…"
Since Mr. Lazar has already identified this Gravity A wave with the nuclear force, he is essentially claiming that the nuclear force of Element-115 extends beyond the limits of the “115-ium” atom. (I’m tempted to call it Lazarium and somewhat surprised that he doesn’t!!) This is simply not possible given the known properties of the nuclear force. The past 50 years of probing the nucleus have taught us that the range of the nuclear force is VERY short and protons and neutrons only feel the pull of their nearest neighbors in a nucleus. Because of this fact, the nuclear force extends out to about the same distance away from a nucleus NO MATTER HOW MASSIVE THE NUCLEUS IS. This fact is fundamental to the science of nuclear physics.
Once again, if Mr. Lazar has a NEW MODEL of the nuclear interaction which explains the properties and decay rates of known nuclei which can predict the abundances of elements synthesized in the Big Bang which can describe all of the properties of nuclear reactions which take place inside of stars all as well as our current theories do all of these things (which is VERY well!), then he should publish it and collect his Nobel Prize. If not, then once again his statements make NO SENSE in the light of everything that we know about nuclear interactions.
"Now even though the distance that the Gravity A wave extends past the perimeter of the atom is infinitesimal, it is accessible and it has amplitude, wavelength and frequency just like any OTHER wave in the electromagnetic spectrum. Once you can access the Gravity A wave, you can amplify it just like we amplify OTHER electromagnetic waves."
(MY EMPHASIS)
I have emphasized the use of the word "Other" in this paragraph to show that Mr. Lazar apparently thinks that his “Gravity A wave” (which if you recall, is also the strong nuclear force) is ALSO an electromagnetic wave. Perhaps he HAS formulated a “Grand Unified Theory” after all! Or perhaps this is just another example of his careless use of scientific terms.
Conclusions
I want to take some time here to talk about scientific progress because there is one common objection to my critique of Lazar’s scenario. People will often say “Modern Science could be wrong. Newton was wrong! Lazar could be right!”
Yes. That is correct. In fact, Modern Science almost certainly IS “wrong.” But the only real test of a theory in Science is that it works.
63 Newton’s Laws worked. They still do in most situations. Einstein’s theories are better. They are more accurate and they work in more situations. New theories will continue to come along that are more precise and more generally applicable than the older theories and these new theories will be tested by experiments until they supplant the old ones. That is how Science has progressed for the past 400 years.
So it is not enough to SAY that Modern Science is wrong. You have to demonstrate that you have something that is better. And that “better” theory needs to do everything that the old theory does and then do more.
And chances are that it won’t completely turn the old theory on its head because we already know that the old theories work too well. It is not possible to create a new theory until you understand the old one well enough to present a coherent alternative. Calling Current Science “total nonsense” is nice rhetoric and no doubt convincing to many non-scientists who feel alienated from Science and look on scientists as a kind of modern priesthood of arcane knowledge. But Science is a process. Not a body of knowledge.
I can’t possibly demonstrate conclusively that Lazar’s mechanism is impossible. All that I can hope to demonstrate here is that his scenario would require a COMPLETE overhaul of our theories of Gravity and particle physics in order to work. Not just some minor changes… I’m talking from the ground up.
Mr. Lazar makes no mention of this fact and he proposes no alternative theories. But if Lazar’s scenario is true, then we will NEED some new theories because we are wrong about a great many things. We don’t understand Gravity. We don’t understand nuclear interactions. We don’t understand space-time. We don’t understand stellar evolution.
However, considering Mr. Lazar’s careless use of language, his casual redefinition of scientific terms, and the complete lack of details in his presentation, I’m willing to bet the farm that it is actually Lazar who doesn’t understand any of these things.
But wait! There’s an addendum!!
Lazar explains on his current webpage (www.boblazar.com ) how his Element-115 not only serves as the generator of the Gravity A wave but ALSO as the fuel for a matter/antimatter reactor that powers the rest of the saucer. Let’s take a close look at Lazar’s explanation of this reactor…
“The power source is a reactor. Inside the reactor, Element-115 is bombarded with a proton which plugs into the nucleus of the 115 atom and becomes Element-116 which immediately decays and releases or radiates small amounts of anti-matter. The anti-matter is released in a vacuum into a tuned tube which keeps it from reacting with the matter that surrounds it. It is then directed toward the gaseous matter target at the end of the tube. The matter (which in this case is the gas) and the anti-matter, collide and annihilate totally converting to energy. The heat from this reaction is converted into electrical energy in a near 100 percent efficient thermoelectric generator."
Lots of impressive sounding stuff about reactors and bombarding with protons and all that. But read it again. Antimatter and matter are converted into energy. Fine. But where does the antimatter come from? From Element-115 when it is “bombarded with a proton” by the ship’s reactor.
Hmmm. And just exactly HOW MUCH energy would your reactor have to put into each proton to have it create an antiproton?? Well, exactly the mass energy of an antiproton! And how much energy 64 do you get back out when the antiproton annihilates? EXACTLY THE SAME AMOUNT OF ENERGY THAT YOU PUT INTO CREATING IT!! [StealthSkater note: Unless there is some previously unknown nuclear mechanism that can cause matter to spontaneously transform into antimatter (say by "goosing" the nucleus with pulsating micro magnetic fields). Then the required energy to initiate the reaction is negligible compared to the resulting matter-antimatter annihilation energy that is released.]
(Actually, you can’t just make an antiproton by itself. You have to make a proton/anti-proton pair. So your reactor needs to put in 2 “protons-worth” of mass-energy into each proton in the beam.)
If you have to MAKE your own antimatter on board, your system produces NO NET ENERGY AT ALL!! You put 2 protons worth of energy in and you get 2 protons worth of energy out! In fact, the BEST this system could do would be to make ZERO energy. But in fact, it would more likely USE far more energy than it would make.
The Conservation of Energy Law rears its ugly head and once again, it looks like Bob’s saucer is going nowhere fast!
-- Dr. David L. Morgan August 26, 1996, revised April 2001
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/finis/
Some Final Thoughts, Musings, and Ruminations by Tom Mahood
Some of you have noticed that this site hasn’t had much in the way of updates recently. Nor will you see any in the foreseeable future. There are 2 reasons for this. The main reason is I no longer have much time to deal much with adding to the site. Recently I returned to school working towards a Masters degree in Physics (and yes, there are records!) This has proven to be about the hardest thing (and maybe dumbest!) I’ve ever done, sucking up vast amounts of my formerly copious spare time (Oh yeah, it’s kinda fun, too, but in a sick way).
I’ve always had a strong interest in Science originally majoring in Physics before switching to Engineering. I think the final push to go back to school came from listening to all the pseudo-scientific crap floating around Area-51 (more on that later) and UFOs in general. While I was pretty sure most of all this great sounding stuff was bogus, I didn’t know for sure why. But I do now.
However the other and perhaps more important reason that I’m putting this site on autopilot is I’m pretty much finished with Area-51. I realized I had most of my questions answered and much of the mystery was gone. Sigh!
My first trip out to the Area was Thanksgiving, 1993. Since then, I’ve probably been out there perhaps 40-50 times. (At best, evidence of too much free time and at worse, evidence of a very sick puppy.) In those early days, so much of the Nellis Range was a mystery. There aren’t exactly guidebooks explaining just what all these interesting facilities do out there. Facilities that the Government would just as soon you not know about. In these regions there be dragons… 65
But over time with a lot of research and connecting with various people, these areas of mystery got smaller and smaller. Then one day I finally realized that the mysterious areas (at least for me) were gone and so, sadly, was the possibility of dragons. (Well, almost)
I had made this site operational somewhat as a public service for those interested in Area-51 and similar topics. It really came out of my investigations into Lazar’s background. I kept getting requests for copies of this-or-that. So in an effort to save my lazy ass some work, I just put it all on the Web as a serve-your-self. Later, I added some of the more solid things I was finding on the Nellis Range.
I tried not to duplicate what Glenn Campbell already had on his site. But that wasn’t much of a problem as our approaches and intents were different. My intent in this weird business has been very specific. It was to find out for myself if we are really operating alien-based craft out of the Groom area or anywhere else in that neighborhood. I was never interested in “blowing the lid off of Groom” (if there’s a lid on anything to begin with) or exposing anything. I wanted to know for me. (The rest of you are on your own!). I presume the Government has plenty of secret things out there,and as far as I’m concerned, they are entitled to them. Stealth helicopters, black Mantas, UAVs, Aurora…who cares??
But if we’re talkin’ aliens, then I want to know!
Going about things with that goal dictated what I did and who/what I got involved with. It also determined just what kind of info I would publicly let loose. I had 2 concerns in this regard.
First, I was legitimately concerned that some of the info I might come across could be “sensitive” (I have no idea if that’s the case). I always erred on the conservative side and never publicly put out anything that to me suggested sensitivity. I tended to avoid the Media (with a few exceptions) as to my mind it really didn’t serve any useful purpose and move me toward where I wanted to go. I did hear from some pretty bizarre folks after my few TV appearances, however. There are some weird people out there!
Secondly, over time, I had some real interesting people provide me with some rather valuable pieces of the puzzle. Maybe because I didn’t seem like a nut (Hah, fooled them!) or just kept my mouth shut. I held this stuff close to my vest as these sources could perhaps get into various flavors of trouble if it got out. They were telling me things and also publicly repeating some of these items would simply make my sources go away. As a result, what you’ve seen on my website has only been the mainstream items based upon public records, documents, and statements. The juicy stuff I kept to myself and it most definitely affected my conclusions.
What I’d like now to do is something a little different for me. This is kind of a conclusion, one that I never thought I’d reach. I’m going to summarize what I think is going on (and not going on) in the Nellis Range based upon almost 4 years of looking at it for many different angles. I’m going to tell you what I think and why. I’m not trying to convince you that I’m right (but I’m satisfied I am). I just want to explain why I think what I do in as much detail as confidences allow. I still entertain the possibility that I could be wrong.
As this is a summary, it certainly won’t be comprehensive. Also, I will be using the term “source” quite a bit. These are people who I’ve known and have found to be reasonably reliable. I shall remain somewhat vague about precisely what they’ve said as it might compromise who they are. As I’m not trying to convince you of anything or win any arguments, I don’t see it as a problem.
66 I will be interested to see what (if anything) the wackos have to say about this. But I suspect they’ll somehow find more nasty things to say about me. But I have no obligations other than to myself. So, I might suggest in a very rare departure from civility, they simply go fuck themselves…
Area-51 and the Nellis Range
So what’s going on out there???
I am satisfied that people are (or were) seeing something out there (although no one’s been seeing much in recent times). But what exactly was that something?
Yeah, yeah, I know. There are a lot of odd aircraft zipping around out there. But I’m after those things that stairstep and make “instant” right angle turns. In my mind, the best fit answer as to what’s been spotted is indeed some sort of disc-shaped craft. While some may find this a farfetched conclusion, to avoid it means dismissing some pretty high quality observations by reliable observers.
Does this imply there is some secret base out there where a squadron of these things are kept? Not at all. The most simple conservative explanation is simply we somehow acquired or built one of these things and kept it in a nondescript hangar at the south end of the base. Then when most of the normal personnel went home for the day, it was brought out for tests. Is it still there? I have no idea. But if you were running the program, would you want to regularly display it for black mailbox tourists?
Could it have been something else that was mistaken for a disc? Most certainly, although it’s hard to say just what it might be. I was told a rather interesting story by someone who said there were no exotic craft at Groom. What there was/is is a particle beam device and that its operation was mistaken for disc-shaped craft. This source said the device was in a long covered trench-like affair who’s cover slid away for testing. Further, this source said he had seen the device and that nothing could be in the air for miles around when it operated.
While that was an interesting story, I could never figure out how a particle beam could produce spherical balls of light flitting across the sky.
Finally, I learned enough physics to fully understand how it was not only possible but also likely. So I view this as a very viable alternative explanation. Wouldn’t it be ironic if all this mythology of saucers at Groom and the influx of alien seeking tourists compromising base operations was simply the result of particle beam experiments? That would be neat to find out some day.
What about these stories of underground transport systems, some that are said to stretch as far as Edwards AFB to the West and the sinister Dulce to the Northeast? This was one of those urban legends…I mean rural legends that I think I had some success tracking down. I am convinced these stories arose from the substantial tunnel complexes used for underground testing on the NTS.
All the elements are there. Blacked-out busses taking workers to a train station are actually the KT Lines busses with dark desert tint windows shuttling workers from Mercury to the portals in Area-12. The train stations are indeed that with workers passing through turnstiles to board their open man trains. The man trains in the tunnels become high speed maglev trains in the legend. There are internal crossover points that serve as underground stations. And the tunnels do go on for many miles over a total 20 miles in one instance but never leaving the Rainier Mesa area.
67 I suppose there could be secret underground research complexes in Rainier Mesa. But it might have nothing at all to do with aliens. But considering how often the ground would be rattling, it would be a pretty lousy place to site anything sensitive. Not a place I’d want to work anyway.
What about other places out there? I don’t think there’s anything real sneaky going on at TTR. But they likely have some new versions of stealth aircraft (yawn...) hidden in those many hangars waiting for nightfall to come out and play.
I think their spooky neighbor to the east Site-4 has the dubious distinction of lending its name to the Lazar story although this Site-4 has nothing to do with ETs. That is unless the ETs might have radar or EM devices that could be used against U.S. aircraft. If that’s the case, you can bet our Government will do whatever it takes to “acquire” that equipment and bring it out to Site-4 for testing against our aircraft next to the Soviet, Chinese, and Iraqi equipment. The story of how the Site-4 name made the cross- country leap to Papoose Lake is interesting and may be told someday.
The Tolicha Peak facility has proven to be a rather boring electronic warfare training facility, mostly used during the various Nellis Flag exercises. Other that these facilities, there seems to be nothing else out there north of Groom and the NTS. The widespread dropping of bombs tends to put a damper on the concept of underground bases hiding under Gold Flat.
I think almost all the stories swirling around the area stem from exaggerations of real events. I’ve always had a pretty high regard for the word of others (I guess a reflection of my own strong desire to relate stories accurately) and as a result I’ve been saddened at the amount of bullshit I’ve come across. I don’t understand the psychological mechanism behind it. But some people just seem to delight in telling tall tales. Unfortunately, they seem to find a receptive audience in some of the folks drawn to Area-51 and the stories take on a life of their own. You have no idea the crap I’ve heard! Damn near broke my bullshit filter.
Papoose Lake
I am satisfied that the only thing at Papoose Lake is a dry lake and some junk. Moreover, that’s all there’s ever been.
I’ve studied several high-resolution satellite photos of the area from the era that Lazar claims to have been there. None show so much of a hint of anything there beyond normal range operations. Not the fenced area Lazar described at the entrance nor the “good dirt road” used by the bus to get there. In science-fiction stories, underground bases can be hidden without a trace. Not so in real life. There have to be entryways for vehicles and equipment, cooling, heating and ventilation ports, utility feeds, at least some of which will show up on a satellite photo. None do here.
Then there’s the question of why it would be an underground base to start with. The only underground facilities I know to exist are those specifically designed to survive a nuclear attack and there are more than a few. To do so, they must be far underground such as Cheyenne Mountain or Mount Weather. The construction of such facilities is a tremendous engineering task requiring equally tremendous dollars. Lazar’s S-4 obviously couldn’t survive a nuclear attack as it was right beneath the surface.
Also, underground facilities are not very amenable to expansion or modification like a surface facility. Then there’s the problem of what to do with the material you excavate. You have to put it somewhere. And the bigger the underground base, the bigger the dirt pile. 68
So maybe it was built underground to hide it. Hide it from who? Lazar has said the Soviets were in the program at one time. So it couldn’t be from them. The American people? There are far less costly ways to hide things (usually in plain sight). The concept just doesn’t make sense.
And the location. The site isn’t even in Area-51. It’s several miles south of the boundary in the Nellis Range. On top of that, it’s in the National Desert Wildlife Range for crying out loud! Again, it just doesn’t make sense unless of course you consider that Lazar may be lying.
But for me, the clincher is this. I know people who have been there. Up close and personal. They say there’s nothing there, nor did it appear there ever was. I believe these people. As for the argument that after Lazar blabbed, the facility was closed down and covered up, anyone familiar with the desert knows how long even simple traces of man’s presence lasts.
Nope, I don’t think that’s it at all. The answer is far simpler….
Lazar
Hmmmm… Let’s see ... How can I best put this?? How about ...
Lazar is lying through his teeth!!
But how can I possibly think that? On this very website, I state that the evidence I have posted is inconclusive. Quite true if you consider only what I’ve posted. There is other information. But before we get into that, how about a recap of the lies we do know about.
First off, how about those neat Masters degrees of his? Now that’s a BIG lie! There is no way he had the time to attend either MIT or Caltech. Nor does he have the smarts. The idea of his records being erased is absolutely preposterous. Having gone through the process myself, I know that his having attended either school would be the easiest thing in the world to prove (just a trivial thing).
There are the graduate advisors you have to deal with, as well as your sponsor (the professor who oversees your research). As a grad student, you get extremely well known. Then there’s the thesis review committee and copies of the thesis itself (supposedly on MHD Lazar never would say what the actual title was) and the name and author would have been entered into national research databases (which would have been done years before any “erasure” would have taken place on Lazar).
Then there is Caltech degree in “Electronic Technology”, a degree which the school doesn’t offer. I could go on. But with just the schooling, ask yourself this: If someone is obviously lying to you about his educational background (and in a big way), does it make sense to believe him when he starts spinning an alien story?
Continuing on mining the vein of lies, we come to his birth certificate. In early interviews, Lazar claimed when he went to get a copy of his birth certificate it was (gasp!) gone! That his existence was being wiped away. Later, in posting to the Internet, Gene Huff said the real reason Lazar didn’t get his birth certificate right off was that he was adopted and the process for getting a certificate was much more involved.
Yet that’s not what Lazar says in interviews although he’s become a little more cagey about it in recent years. In early interviews, he would just talk about his vanished birth certificate. Now when 69 interviewers ask about his vanishing records, specifically mentioning his birth certificate, Lazar smoothly glides over that issue and just talks about his employment records at Los Alamos at the same time leaving the impression that his birth records were indeed erased. Why is he not interested in clearing up this misapprehension?
But Lazar sounds and talks like a physicist! That’s what I thought at one time, too. But I came to discover that he talks and sounds like what the general public (and Lazar himself) thinks a physicist sounds like. In reality, they are quite different and can easily be quite obtuse. I have discussed Lazar with a few real physicists (who hadn’t heard the story) and they usually just start laughing. But then what do they know. They’re just real physicists with real PhDs.
“Okay, wise guy”, you may ask. “What do you know you’re not telling?”
For me, one of the big sticking points of the story was if Lazar hadn’t been there, how did he know about the Wednesday night tests to bring his friends out? (BTW, I think most of Lazar’s friends sincerely believe his story and are not involved in any complicity to put it over on the rest of us).
For your consideration: I have it from 2 separate sources that Lazar had been out to the black mailbox area at least several times prior to his alleged employment at S-4. Now why do suppose he was doing that? Perhaps checking on rumors he heard of dancing lights on Wednesday nights?
As a further twist, one of the sources said that on one occasion Lazar went all the way to the gate on Groom Lake Road. If that was indeed the case, then Lazar would have been detained by the guards and warned that he would face arrest should he ever return. (In that era, a smooth talker with a good story could get away with just a warning). This would explain his running off into the desert when he and his friends were busted by the guards on their last visit out there. It also suggests how he could have known about the Wednesday night tests.
As far as Lazar’s knowledge of physics goes, I know of someone who had the chance to quiz Lazar regarding technical matters. This source said that Lazar was definitely no physicist (although he plays one on TV!). That he had only the knowledge base of a technician and was unable to solve simple differential equations.
Another source quizzed Lazar about his knowledge of the Groom facility. After all, he supposedly did spend some time there waiting for his shuttle to S-4. Lazar apparently failed this little “test” miserably with no knowledge of Groom. I find this in sharp contrast to George Knapp’s assertion that Lazar was able to describe portions of Groom quite well.
So perhaps it’s time for a slight aside regarding Knapp. When I first started looking into this subject, I had a very high opinion of Knapp. He seemed to me to be a good no-nonsense investigative journalist.
However, over time, I’ve had occasion to cross investigative paths several times with Knapp on more than one topic. That is, I found myself looking into areas he supposedly already had. I was extremely surprised to find he missed obvious things and generally did very shallow work in the areas I was aware of. I have come to regard his “investigation” of Lazar as highly suspect. They are, after all, friends and associates. Not much arms-length there. Unfortunately, he seems to be the only journalist of any note that Lazar has allowed to poke into his background. [StealthSkater note: skeptics of Major Donald E. Keyhoe were always amazed how he seemed to be the only journalist that got UFO updates from the Government in the 1950s. And more recently, the same thing has been said about Linda Moulton-Howe. Almost implying that they were being deliberately fed this stuff.]
70 I think a most telling occurrence was captured in an interview with Knapp for the Discovery Channel TV series by Martin Belderson which aired a few months back. In it, Knapp says that the first thing that went though his mind when he found out about Lazar’s arrest for pandering was, essentially: “There goes my reputation”. Not that Lazar might not be what he claimed and there might not be saucers at Papoose but rather Knapp’s reputation might be tarnished. Is this the kind of guy you trust to look into Lazar’s background? I don’t. Not for a minute.
People who have known Lazar in the past (friends and acquaintances) have described him as a real bullshitter always telling stories. Some of these people when pressed in private as to whether Lazar is telling the truth just smile and shrug. Even Huff has said Lazar “blows people off” all the time telling them only what he feels like.
There are other stories out there damaging to Lazar and his tales which I had the privilege of being made privy to. However, those stories are not mine to tell and must wait for the decisions of others. I suspect the next year or so will bring forth some interesting things regarding Mr. Lazar.
So for those of you keeping score, where are we so far? He’s told some absolute whoppers in the past regarding his education. I’ve talked with people I find pretty solid that say Lazar doesn’t know physics, can’t describe Groom, and that he had been out lurking around Area-51 prior to his story surfaced. Finally, some who know him say he is a bullshitter.
But wait... There’s more!
What there is, is Lazar’s “science”. Science-fiction is a better term. But it’s not even very good science-fiction. Good science-fiction has a basis in fact. The science he spews is checkable by anyone with a little education in physics. It’s all so bad that it’s tough to know where to begin. Here’s a brief sampling of the low points:
● There are such things as gravity waves. But they are not part of the electromagnetic spectrum as Lazar has claimed. They are ripples in space-time generated by large masses (orbiting neutron stars, black holes, and the like). A much different critter from an E-M wave. Real gravity waves pass easily through matter and aren’t likely to be contained in any sort of waveguide. Further, they can have essentially an unlimited frequency range. Not the 2.5 GHz range as alluded to by Lazar.
● Assuming for a deranged moment that Lazar’s version of gravity waves exists, you couldn’t hover by emitting a similar wave out-of-phase. That would be like going up next to a radio transmitter tower and transmitting your own out-of-phase signal. You wouldn’t feel a force pushing on your transmitter.
● Lazar says the gravity waves from the amplifiers go out millions of miles and “pull” a bit of space towards the craft and then releases it. This implies that his “gravity waves” propagate instantaneously faster than the speed-of-light. This is a load of crap.
● Any time you have curvature of space due to gravity, the distances increase, not decrease.
● Lazar says we “don’t understand Gravity well”. More bullshit. The problem is that Lazar doesn’t understand Gravity well (Uh, gravity well…a joke for those who get it). Else he would have come up with a better story. The scientific community understands Gravity quite well although it is a niche field. Does it understand it as well as it would like? Of course not. But the current theories are quite sound and they explain how it all works nicely and why things attract 71 and can’t repel. But just because we understand how it works doesn’t mean we can duplicate it at high levels unless you can get a few bazillion kilograms of matter into the lab.
● All current atomic theories (and they’re pretty damn good) hold that Element-114 may be somewhat stable. It remains to be seen how long “somewhat stable” really is. There are certain “magic numbers” of the particles making up atoms that enhance stability, thus giving rise to the inert elements. This may be the case for 114 with all the electron orbitals nicely filled. Not so with 115. It should vanish rather quickly.
● If one could convert 100% of the matter in a 223 gram mass to energy (against a similar 223 gram mass of normal matter), you’d get about 5.6 billion kilowatt hours. Enough to run a 100 megawatt load (Lazar’s low-end claim for the disc’s output) for just over 12 years. This is far shorter than his claimed 20-30 year life. But even under Lazar’s description, you wouldn’t get 100%. He claims that after 115 is bombarded by a proton, it becomes 116 and then releases a particle of anti-hydrogen (not that there’s ever been an example of such a reaction before!). That means over 99% of the mass of the original 115 remains if only as collections of lower Z number elements. So even if his “process” worked as he claims, there would only be a conversion of well under 1% of the initial mass into various sorts of energy (not out of line with normal fission reactors). Note that this means that instead of 12 years, those 115 guzzling discs would blow through their supply of 115 in about 5 weeks. Of course, your mileage may vary.
● Ah, but there’s more to this antimatter garbage. Lazar claims the reactor is thermionic (and 100% efficient at that! But he’s such an honest guy that he carefully points out this apparent contradiction). He repeatedly refers to its conversion of the heat released in the antimatter reaction to electricity. The problem is that only a very small part of the energy of an antimatter reaction as described by Lazar is actually heat. Most of the energy goes to into the generation of high-speed particles and radiation. He never explains what becomes of all this nuclear debris. Perhaps he should have paid more attention at MIT when he was working on his MHD thesis.
● Lazar claims in the antimatter reactor the protons are channeled up a tube with a pretty tight radius. The problems of proton confinement to such a path are pretty significant. After the proton hits the 115, the antihydrogen is released “in a vacuum into a tuned tube” (perhaps he’s confused with the headers on his Corvette?) and then directed down “toward a gaseous target”. Neat trick having a gaseous target in the same tube as a vacuum. But that’s slick Zeta Recticulan technology for you!
● There’s quite a bit more that reeks of Lazar’s science. Unfortunately, it gets a little more involved technically and requires more space than I want to devote to deal with it. But what I’ve listed so far would totally blow Lazar out of the water with anyone with technical knowledge. This is crap science-fiction, folks.
Is he telling the truth about anything? I do think he worked at Los Alamos. But not necessarily in the capacity he’s claimed. I believe he worked for one of the lab’s subcontractors in a limited capacity for a limited amount of time. Also, not as a physicist but as a technician. So maybe there is a kernel of truth in his story. But it’s a pretty small kernel and certainly not reason enough to believe his later saucer stories.
72 There are quite a few other people who know Lazar is lying. These are the folks who work at “the test facility” (or whatever other euphemism they prefer). Unfortunately for us on the outside of the fence, those who really know aren’t allowed to talk about things out there at all. And they don’t talk. Not even to say something as simple as “He’s a liar”. They just go about their business bewildered that the general public could believe such foolishness. But sometimes ... just sometimes in private moments ... a few of them will let a little of the truth out. And for that, I am very thankful.
A parting thought on this subject: The best con men are the most sincere.
But aren’t there any Dragons???
Maybe. I’d like to think there are, anyway. The only spot that retains a bit of mystery for me is the northern part of Area-19 at the far northern reaches of the Test Site (described in other sections of this website).
Recently I went along on a tour of the NTS which included portions of Areas 19 and 20. While we cruised through a lot of Area-20, we stuck to the main road (Pahute Mesa Road) when traversing Area 19. There was a pretty good dirt road showing some use, heading off north into Dead Horse Flat. When asked about the road and where it went, our guide (who had been at the NTS for quite a while) said he had never been up there. That was a nice safe statement.
Not long ago, I had the chance to chat with John Lear on the subject. Now I find Lear to be a real nice guy. But I think he’s too accepting of other people’s stories. Nevertheless, I was quite surprised to find that the underground “Sandia Base” that he talks about is supposedly only a few miles west of Dead Horse Flat near Silent Canyon. I find it most interesting that his sources of information (sharply different from mine) coincide on the same area. Further, his stories also tell of a “hidden” runway. Hmmmm ...
Finally, a story from an NTS worker. A few years ago, this worker had occasion to be traveling through the Area 19/20 vicinity. He found the road blocked by a guard and could not proceed. He was required to travel many miles out of his way to get around the area. Neither the guard nor later inquiries of other coworkers (who were reasonably well plugged into things) could say what was going on up there but that indeed something was.
Alas, this is admittedly all circumstantial stuff. If it holds to the pattern of everything else out there, it will turn out to be nothing. I, for one, would love to have a look. Still, it would be nice to think that the dragons still lurk on the Nellis Range, perhaps retreating to a lair deep under Dead Horse Flat.
So what does the future hold? I suspect this site will be around for at least a while as I’m too lazy to cancel it. But I’m also too lazy to add to it, not seeing much point anymore. I do have hopes the info on Lazar will continue to be useful to the many newcomers who stumble across the story and want to know more. And maybe it will continue to annoy certain others. One can only hope. Use the info or ignore it. It’s up to you.
And by all means, if you have a chance to get out towards Area-51, do it! You won’t be disappointed even if you don’t see saucers zipping through the sky. A trip to Rachel with stops at the Inn and the Research Center is wonderfully surreal. An evening near the black mailbox doing a little people watching will provide you with stories to tell for years to come. And maybe a trip up Tikaboo to see that damn secret base. But throughout it all is the vast beautiful desert. And even if you don’t find any discs, you may just find yourself. 73
As for me, I seem to have an odd talent for bumping into weird and unusual things. I already have something most fascinating peeing on my doorstep. At the very least, it will keep me out of trouble for a while. Perhaps it will lead to another website, perhaps something else.
I’ll probably make it back out to Area-51 and vicinity a few times in the future. Not so much for the mysteries as for the social aspect. I have met some of the most entertaining and interesting characters of my life and I greatly enjoy their company. Because of their company, I never cared that I never saw anything. Overall, it’s been a hell of a lot of fun and a worthy quest.
But oh, to return to those days of dragons….
Would someone please turn out the lights on their way out?
May 6, 1997
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-introduction/ The Lazar Flaws
A series I did examining in detail certain “problems” with aspects of Lazar’s story. Its posting on the alt.conspiracy.area51 newsgroup resulted in the posting of “counterpoints” by Gene Huff. Unfortunately, I neglected to save all of Huff’s replies (at the time I didn’t think it would be any big thing!). But I’ve included those I have. If anyone has any of the missing responses of Huff’s, fire them at me and I’d be happy to include them.
[Note: Some of the pieces have been updated due to additional information received since they were originally done. I’ve tried to identify where this is the case both in my piece and also Huff’s response.]
With the recent arrival of Gene Huff to the Internet newsgroups, there has been a dramatic upsurge in discussions of the story related by Bob Lazar. Some of the discussion has been quite good such as the synopsis posted by Gene.
Unfortunately, probably the majority of what’s been posted has been, to put it bluntly, crap. I suppose that is in keeping with the long-standing Usenet tradition. Much of the exchanges seem to center around name calling and how much who was paid for what. While occasionally these exchanges are wonderfully amusing, progress it ain’t.
The new information about Lazar’s story is primarily contained in Gene’s synopsis. It focuses primarily on Lazar’s S-4 experiences but also includes some Los Alamos info and names a few people who may be able to support Lazar’s claims of Los Alamos employment. But if you look carefully, the synopsis really only fills in gaps during a certain period of time and says nothing about other major areas of Lazar’s life. In some ways, it can be said that there’s really nothing new here. Just new details.
The main problem with which we are faced is that all of the supposed S-4 goings-on are simply not checkable by us mere mortals. The only way we can get a sense of the accuracy of Lazar’s account of S-4 is to compare his accounts of events or situations that can be verified and extrapolate his accuracy 74 into his S-4 story. Fortunately for us, Lazar has given quite a few interviews and has gone on at some length about his background. This is not a foolproof way to determine accuracy. But it is a reasonable way and must be considered.
Just so there’s no mistake, I want to make it perfectly clear what my opinion is on Lazar’s story. I really don’t what’s going on here. I’m fairly confident that he has misrepresented quite a bit of his past. That in itself doesn’t necessarily mean he’s lying about S-4. But some may see a pattern.
However, I’ve been fortunate to have come across some information from several different separated sources that confirm a few elements of Lazar’s story. Nothing big, mind you. Just enough little things to cause me to think SOME elements of his story may be correct.
Then there are the reports of George Knapp who says he’s talked to others who confirm an operation at S-4. Knapp is someone who I have a measure of respect for, personally.
The easiest thing to do is simply brand Lazar a liar and go on with your life. The second easiest thing would be to just believe him and dismiss any contradictions to his story as irrelevant to the main point. The hardest thing to do is just stay neutral and try to come up with an explanation of what REALLY is going on. Am I brilliant enough to do that? Probably not.
The Lazar Flaws is an expansion of what I originally put into the timeline along with some new info. With the timeline, I was pressed for space to fully discuss certain aspects and I was also trying to maintain some semblance of neutrality (although I’m sure some out there might take issue with that!). The Flaws are areas that appear to be just that, basic flaws in Lazar’s story. Things that just don’t seem right.
I will be trying to cover 6-to-8 topics in a little more depth with each topic having its own piece. I’ll be putting them out perhaps on a weekly basis allowing time for discussion. Frankly, I’m curious if anyone even cares. We shall see.
Each piece will consist of 3 parts. The first part (the background) will set the stage, generally using Lazar’s own words. I don’t intend to totally rehash Lazar’s entire story each time. So if you’re not somewhat familiar with it, you might want to get that way or you’ll be left in the dust.
The next section will be an analysis of the background. Does it make sense? Are his statements contradicted by more credible sources? Finally, the piece will conclude with alternative explanations. Of course, one explanation will always be that he simply lied. However, there are a number of other explanations and in some cases may be equally plausible to the possibility he lied. I’ll list them all.
So, onward to the Lazar Flaws. Collect them all! Trade them with your friends! The first installment will be Lazar’s birth record and hopefully we’ll work up to the grand finale -- his academic record -- unless I get bored or find a better use for my time.
Let the games begin ...
75 http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-the-birth-certificate/ (The Lazar Flaws) The Birth Certificate
Background:
One of the more sensational (and perhaps sinister) elements of Lazar’s story has to do with the disappearance of his birth, employment, and academic records. He maintains that vital records of his existence were wiped out, ostensibly by some secret Government manipulation. In other installments of “The Lazar Flaws”, we’ll take a look at employment and academic records. For now, we’ll just consider his birth record.
In Alien Contact by Timothy Good, it states: “… When George Knapp contacted the hospital where Lazar says he was born in Coral Gables, Florida, no records could be found.” In a radio interview on November 17, 1989, George Knapp told Chuck Harder: “We called for his birth records and they had disappeared… as if someone was trying to make him a non-person.”
In an interview on the “Billy Goodman Happening” radio show on December 20, 1989, the following statements were made:
Caller: Why are you going public? There’s obviously a lot of other staff on the project that senses a great degree of loyalty.
Lazar: The straw that broke the camel’s back was after I left the program, I became concerned about what happens now. I made a routine request for my birth certificate which I needed just for I.D. purposes and was told that it doesn’t exist. I wasn’t even born at that hospital. I sat on that for about a week and just wondered. And then I began to inquire at previous jobs and also at other schools and that information was also gone. I got the idea that soon someone was going to disappear. So that’s when I contacted the TV station and essentially let everything out.
[Skip in transcript]
Goodman: It was interesting when you asked for your birth certificate and you could not locate it. And they told you that literally you did not exist. They TOLD you this in so many words?
Lazar: They said we just have no records here.
Goodman: And YOU felt that you didn’t exist?
Lazar: I felt that that’s what they were trying to make happen.
Goodman: Are you familiar with that type of thing being done?
Lazar: No, I never heard of it before. I guess other people have.
Goodman: Did you ever get your birth certificate?
Lazar: Nope.
76 On December 9, 1989, Lazar appeared on KLAS-TV’s “On The Record” program hosted by George Knapp. The following exchange took place:
Knapp: The reason you came forward with the information to begin with. Is it related to the fact that they were bothering you?
Lazar: Yeah, it was essentially to stop that. What had happened was I sent in a request for my birth certificate and as it turned out, it wasn’t there anymore. That I wasn’t born at the hospital! And that kind of got me wondering what’s going on. I put in a request for some other information, previous jobs, and that was also gone. I thought something had to be done before I disappeared.
Analysis
Lazar makes it quite clear that he believed his birth records had “disappeared”. It would seem that George Knapp on the basis of his checking agreed with that position. But is there a more plausible explanation than a sinister Government organization attempting wipe someone’s existence away? It may be as simple as not looking in the right place.
In the State of Florida, legal birth records may only be found in 2 locations. The official and primary repository of birth records is the Office of Vital Statistics of the Department of Health and Rehabilitation Services in Jacksonville. This facility serves the entire state and has complete records going back to 1917. Some counties (but not all) maintain duplicate records for births within their county. Coral Gables is located in Dade County which is one of the counties that maintains their own copies of birth records.
The least reliable place to search for birth records in Florida is at hospitals. Records from hospitals there are not considered legal documents and as a result may not be kept with a high level of care. It would not be surprising at all not to be able to find medical records that are over 30 years old.
So, can anyone just contact the State of Florida and see if there actually is a record of Lazar’s birth? Well, it’s not that simple. In 1987 in an effort to cut down on welfare fraud, Florida enacted a law that made all birth records confidential documents. It is illegal for the State or the counties to give out copies of certificates or to even verify the existence of a certificate,to anyone other than the birth registrant, the registrant’s parents or legal guardians, or the birth registrant’s legal representative. So it would seem that Knapp, even if armed with a letter of authorization from Lazar, was looking in the wrong place.
But there is another interesting piece of information that is not common knowledge. After Lazar plead guilty to the pandering charge on June 18, 1990 in Las Vegas, the State of Nevada Department of Parole and Probation prepared a “Pre-Sentence Report”. This report provides the court with quite a bit of background data on the defendant to assist in sentencing. The report was prepared by Joy Mundy- Neal and dated July 27, 1990. Under the heading “Social History”, the report states:
“A certified copy of the defendant’s birth certificate indicates he was born on January 26, 1959 to the union of Albert Lazar and Phyllis Berliner (natural mother). However, the defendant reports he was born on January 26, 1959 in Coral Gables, Florida to unknown parents and was subsequently adopted by Albert Lazar and the former Phyllis Berliner within the first few months of his life“.
When I first posted this installment of The Lazar Flaws on Usenet, I withheld the information on Lazar’s adoption out of respect for his privacy. However in Gene Huff’s response (which I currently lack), he posted the information that Lazar was adopted and that this was the cause of the difficulties in
77 obtaining a certificate. Indeed, he stated it was Lazar himself that gave the probation officer the certified birth certificate.
So in this case at least, there is a routine explanation for something that was initially portrayed as having very sinister overtones. There is nothing at all wrong with that. However, this “disappearing records” scenario has become a firm part of the Lazar story. Although Lazar no longer claims his birth records have vanished, the story is still out there in the early books and interviews. It’s never really been corrected and seems to live on.
Probable Explanation:
1. Lazar -- and later, Knapp -- failed to look in the proper location for the birth certificate due to Lazar’s adoptive status and jumped to conclusions as to its absence.
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-the-blown-reactor/ (The Lazar Flaws) The Blown Reactor
Background:
One of the major elements of Lazar’s story (and one he’s repeated several times) is that he was told he was hired as a “replacement” for another scientist that had been killed in a major explosion. As the story goes, this unlucky fellow (along with a few others) were done in when they attempted to cut into an operating reactor that had been removed from one of the discs.
Lazar says he was told this had occurred in an underground shaft or tunnel at the Test Site where the reactor had been taken for this particular “experiment”.
In George Knapp’s KLAS-TV special when he first identified Lazar in November of 1989, Knapp stated (it is assumed with Lazar’s concurrence): “There was an accident he says back in April 1987. An accident that was passed off as an unannounced nuclear test.”
In Alien Contact, Lazar said in a March, 1990 interview that the blast occurred in May of 1987 in a vertical tunnel, and took out the first door killing 3 people. It also destroyed a few hundred thousand dollars of monitoring equipment.
In UFOs and The Alien Presence, Lazar said in a September, 1990 interview that the blast had blown the blast door off into the monitoring area and he thought the blast’s size was in the 20 kiloton range.
Analysis:
The story told by Lazar is very consistent with the exception of the dates. The inconsistency of the dates, while not desirable, is probably not unreasonable given Lazar’s memory.
So what do the Test Site records have to say about this?
Per DOE records, there were 3 announced tests in April, 1987: 78
April 18, 1987 Code Name Delamar 20-150 kilotons
April 22, 1987 Code Name Presido < 20 kilotons
April 30, 1987 Code Name Hardin 20-150 kilotons
These tests were definitely known in advance as there was the usual contingent of protesters at the Test Site gate.
There were no announced tests in May of 1987 according to the DOE. What about unannounced tests? After all, that’s what Lazar said this incident was passed off as. It certainly wouldn’t have been expected.
On December 7, 1993 as part of its new openness, the DOE released a listing of ALL previously unannounced tests at the Test Site going back to 1963. There were 204 of them. Not one of them occurred anytime in 1987. As part of its announcement, the DOE also said there were no other announced tests. Th-th-th-that’s all, folks…
So, there were no unannounced nuclear tests that support Lazar’s story and the announced tests were known in advance so they don’t make sense as an explanation.
As one final check, what do the seismic records of the US Geological Survey show?
From the USGS GLOBAL HYPOCENTER DATA BASE CD-ROM:
CIRCLE SEARCH
CENTER POINT: 37.000N , 116.250W (About the center of the Test Site)
RADIUS (km): 100.0 (That is 100 Km from the center of the Test Site)
DATE RANGE (Yr:Mo): 1987AD: 4 — 1987AD: 5 (The months of April and May, 1987)
MAGNITUDE RANGE: 1.0 — 9.9 (That should cover everything!)
CATALOGS: PDE (The main earthquake catalog for the US)
CAT YEAR MO DA ORIG TIME LAT LON DEP MAGNITUDE IEFMDTSVNWG DIST
PDE 1987 04 18 134000.60 37.25 -116.51 0 5.5 mb GS ……E.. 35
PDE 1987 04 22 220000.09 36.98 -116.00 0 4.2 mb GS …..E.. 21
PDE 1987 04 30 133000.09 37.23 -116.42 0 5.5 mb GS ……E.. 30
If I might interpret the output for the reader, it indicates the only seismic activity within a 100 kilometer radius of the Test site for the months of April and May of 1987 were the 3 aforementioned underground tests. There were no “mystery events” that could have explained the reactor explosion as related by Lazar. Possible Explanations: 79
● Lazar fabricated all or part of the story. ● Lazar correctly related what he was told but for some reason was given a fabricated story (or at least a fabricated date). ● Lazar remembered the date very incorrectly.
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-discoverer-of-115/
(The Lazar Flaws) Discoverer of Element-115
An interesting aspect of Lazar’s story is that he says he was the one who identified the material he calls Element 115. This material was the basic “fuel” that provided power for the discs.
From UFOs and the Alien Presence by Michael Lindemann:
RS (Ralph Steiner): What was your task during the 10 times-or-less that you were out there….
BL (Bob Lazar): I hadn’t gotten into a solid work schedule. Most of the time I spent there was on demonstrations and just getting caught up on what others had done before me….
[Short skip in transcript]
BL: … Keep in mind that when I first went out there they had no idea what the fuel was.
ML (Michael Lindemann): They had not yet identified 115?
BL: I was the one who identified 115. That was my only contribution to the Project. And I don’t stand on the fact that it’s 115. But if it’s not, it’s 114. It’s right in there.
PH (Physicist friend of Lindemann’s): How did you determine that? Did you put it in a mass spectrograph? How do you figure out what element it was?
BL: Well, there are many different ways. But certainly a mass spectrograph was one way. We also did all kinds of bizarre things. Los Alamos was apparently involved in some of the analysis of the 115 and I don’t know if they knew what they were doing. They were also involved in some of the machining of the 115 pieces.
[Short skip in transcript]
ML: So your contribution was identifying this stuff?
BL: Yes. And there again, this confirms what I said. That this Project was apparently just being worked on for some time. Several years I would imagine. And they had no idea what the fuel was. We’re talking about a very basic thing. Certainly a reasonable starting point.
80 A review of Good’s Alien Contact book indicates Lazar was only at S-4 for 6-or-7 days total between 12/88 and 4/89. Lazar has stated at his appearance at Rachel, Nevada in 1993 that he would fly in between 4 and 5 PM and left by 11 PM. This means his TOTAL work time at S-4 must be 49 hours- or-less just over a normal work week.
Analysis:
Consider carefully these claims by Lazar.
First off, he’s on the job for the equivalent of about a week. And on top of all the other things he’s claimed to have seen or done (“getting up to speed”, the medical exam, security briefing, reading the various reports, watching the test flight, etc.), he “discovers” just what the magic material is that does all this. If true, it would seem Lazar had one of the better first work weeks in the history of Mankind! [StealthSkater note: My interpretation (perhaps wrong) is that he was on the Project for 6-or-so months while being physically present at the remote site S-4 for 6-or-7 days during that time.]
Per Lazar, none of the others at S-4 or any of the very brilliant minds at Los Alamos were able to figure out just what this stuff was despite having the material for at least a number of years. Lazar is quite correct when he said this is a very basic thing. Someone fresh out of college with a BS in Physics should be capable of making this identification. This is a scenario that makes no sense whatsoever. [StealthSkater note: I had previously read that Lazar said that all "conventional" methods to determine the number-of-protons in the Element were unsuccessful. And it his major contribution to the Project that he helped invent a new unconventional method to do this.]
Next, Lazar claims that while he was the one that identified 115, he’s not sure if it might be 114 (“But it’s right in there”). That’s not very good identification. It would seem reasonable that if you were the first to identify a new element, you would remember which one it was! Maybe that’s the real reason they decided not to keep him on at S-4.
According to the best atomic theory of today, some isotopes of element 114 MIGHT be stable and perhaps even non-radioactive. That same theory indicates 115 would be considerably less stable and likely to be radioactive. If anything, the existence of a material such as Lazar describes (disregarding the gravitational effects) is MUCH more likely as 114.
Possible Explanations:
● Lazar fabricated the story of identifying 115. ● Lazar’s identification was orchestrated to make him believe that he was the first to identify the material (perhaps as a test of his analytical abilities or some sort of psychological test). ● The entire S-4 episode was fabrication on Lazar’s part that for whatever reason, he believes to be real. ● Lazar had his mind manipulated in some manner by unknown parties and false memories have been implanted.
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-discoverer-of-115-huffs-response/ Gene Huff's Response
From netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews Sat May 6 19:01:20 1995 81 Xref: netcom.com alt.conspiracy.area51:1211 From: [email protected] (Gene Huff) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51 Subject: Re: THE LAZAR FLAWS – Discoverer of 115 Date: 4 May 1995 14:49:49 GMT In
> Per Lazar, none of the others at S-4 or any of the very brilliant minds at Los Alamos were able to figure out just what this stuff was despite having the material for at least a number of years.
No, per Mahood, per Lazar. That’s how it’s now being distorted.
The people at S4 had the 115 for a couple of years. Not the people at Los Alamos. Los Alamos had been involved much more recently. You’re trying to conveniently oversimplify things way too much here.
There were numerous problems in compartmentalizing information enough to use Los Alamos’ facilities without allowing many to know what was going on at S4. They had to have research done by separate entities at Los Alamos and then correlate that research at S4. Bob is on the record as having stated that S4 did not possess all of the proper equipment required to back-engineer the discs at S4. Enter Los Alamos.
He also said that S4 did not employ all of the World’s most brilliant minds for numerous reasons. He didn’t “discover” the 115. He helped correlate other’s research and was the first one to come to a conclusion. He did not state that even the people at S4 had been working everyday trying to identify this fuel with no success.
There were many facets to the Project at S4 and who knows what their priorities were. No one knows how long the specific effort of identifying the fuel had been going on. Bob was simply of the opinion that this is one of the first things that should have been done. For whatever reason, this is not what transpired.
>According to the best atomic theory of today, some isotopes of element 114 MIGHT be stable and perhaps even non-radioactive. That same theory indicates 115 would be considerably less stable and likely to be >radioactive. If anything, the existence of a material such as Lazar describes, disregarding the gravitational effects, is MUCH more likely as 114.
Please! And exactly what theory is that and how conclusively accurate is it? Anyone who has even read a little about Physics knows that physicists will change their theories instantly when confronted with some empirical evidence that reflects otherwise.
If Bob Lazar and others at Los Alamos and S4 saw some of this evidence, would they not be in a better position to judge than someone forced to theorize with mathematical models? If you’re truly familiar with what has to be surmised, concluded, and not proven in atomic theory, you would have never made that statement.
82 >Possible Explanations:
1a. Mahood has run out of criticisms (as weak as they’ve been thus far) and due to URS has now resorted to grasping at straws.
>4. Lazar had his mind manipulated in some manner by unknown parties and false memories have been implanted.
There it is! You’ve finally bottomed out at the mind control basement. I have a feeling this is the prelude to your final summary.
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-omicron-mode-operation/ (The Lazar Flaws) 'Omicron' Mode Operation
Background:
What follows is a collection of statements in chronological order by Lazar on how the craft operate when in the “omicron” mode. The omicron mode, according to Lazar, is essentially the low speed or hovering mode.
KVEG Radio Interview: December 28th 1989
Caller: You were talking about the low- and high-speed modes and the control factors in there. Can you describe those modes and what the ship looks like each time it is going through those modes?
Lazar: The low-speed mode — and I REALLY wish I could remember what they call these but I can’t as I can’t remember the frequency of the wave ... The low-speed mode ... The craft is very vulnerable. It bobs around. And it’s sitting on a weak gravitational field, sitting on 3 gravity waves. And it just bounces around. And it can focus the waves behind it and keep falling forward and hobble around at low speed.
March, April 1990 (approximate time of interviews): Alien Contact by Timothy Good.
... The craft does not create an “antigravity” field as some have surmised. “It’s a gravitational field that’s out of phase with the current one,” Lazar explained in a 1989 radio interview. “It’s the same gravitational wave. The phases vary from 180 degrees to zero… in a longitudinal propagation.”
In the first mode of travel around the surface of a planet, they essentially balance on the gravitational field that the generators put out and they ride a “wave” like a cork does in the ocean. In that mode, they’re very unstable and are affected by the weather…
“How close do you think you have to get before time distortion takes place?” I asked. “It’s tough to say because it depends on the configuration of the craft. If the craft is hovering in the air and the gravity
83 amplifiers are focused down to the ground and it’s standing on its gravity wave, you would have to get into that focused area…”
September 22, 1990: UFOs and the Alien Presence by Michael Lindemann.
Lazar: I don’t know if I mentioned it before. But the amplifiers always run at 100%. They are always outputting a maximum gravity wave and that wave is phase-shifted from zero to 180 degrees. That’s essentially the attraction and repulsion. It’s normally at a null setting somewhere in between. It’s a very straight-forward system. It looks more like a coal fired engine than very hi-tech.
Mid 1991: “The Lazar Tape” (40 minute VHS videotape)
Now when a disk travels near another source of gravity such as a planet or moon, it doesn’t use the same mode of travel that we learned about in our science lesson. When a disk is near another source of gravity, like Earth, the Gravity A wave which propagates outward from the disk is phase-shifted into the Gravity B wave which propagates outward from the Earth. And this creates lift. The gravity amplifiers of the disk can be focused independently. They are pulsed and do not stay on continuously.
When all three of these amplifiers are being used for travel, they are in the 'delta' configuration. And when only one is being used for travel, it is in the 'omicron' configuration.
May 1, 1993: “Bob Lazar at The Ultimate UFO Seminar” at Rachel, Nevada
Question: Was the local means of propulsion the same as this across-space distances? What was the local means of propulsion?
Lazar: The local means of propulsion is essentially them balancing on an out-of-phase gravity wave. It’s not as stable as you would think. When the craft took off, it wobbled to some degree. I mean a modern-day Hawker Harrier or something along those lines of vertical takeoff craft is much more stable than then in the 'omicron' configuration which is that mode of travel. The 'delta' configuration is where they use the three amplifiers. Those are the only two methods I know about for moving the craft.
Question: (About using the gravity amplifiers to lift things)
Lazar: Any of the three gravity amplifiers could do that. Could lift something off the ground or, for that matter, compact it into the ground. That’s not a problem because the craft can operate on one amplifier in 'omicron' mode hovering. That would leave the other three (sic) amplifiers free to do anything…
April, 1994, Omni Magazine
Per Lazar: “The craft operated in 2 modes – 'omicron' and 'delta' -- which indicated how many gravity amplifiers were in use. In the 'omicron' configuration, only one amplifier was used. The other two were swung out of the way and tucked inside the disc. In 'omicron' mode, the crafts can essentially rise and hover but do little else.”
Analysis:
This item is not so much a flaw but rather a very pronounced contradiction in Lazar’s story. If you read the background carefully, there are 2 areas that are inconsistent. And while this is a part of his story that we certainly can’t check for accuracy, we can check for consistency.
84 Notice that in the earliest interviews when the details should have been freshest in his mind, he clearly refers to the craft using all three gravity amplifiers when in 'omicron' mode. Then over time, the story changes. He then says the craft uses only one amplifier. (We’ll ignore the problems of balancing on something that isn’t under the exact center of the disc.)
Finally over 4 years after the fact, he adds that not only do the craft use only one amplifier to hover, the other two also fold up out of the way. Quite a change from his first rendition.
The other area has to do with the operation of the gravity amplifiers . In September of 1990, he tells Lindemann: “… I don’t know if I mentioned it before. But the amplifiers always run at 100%. They are always outputting a maximum gravity wave…”
The next year in Lazar’s own tape, he says referring to the amplifiers: “… They are pulsed and do not stay on continuously.”
Well, either they do or they don’t. Which Lazar is the one to believe?
This is pretty basic stuff or at least should be to an ex-saucer mechanic. It’s very disturbing that his story has changed in this rather subtle detail.
Possible Explanations:
● Lazar fabricated the whole story and it naturally mutated slightly with time. ● Lazar was at S-4 but really didn’t understand how the discs operate and is giving us his “best guess.” ● Lazar is relating a story he heard from someone else and is “filling in the blanks.”
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-education/ (The Lazar Flaws) Education
In this installment we’ll take a look at the educational background Lazar claims to have and what (if any) parts of it can be corroborated.
Background:
On the “Billy Goodman Happening” radio program, December 20, 1989:
Caller: Can you list your credentials?
Lazar: As far as what?
Caller: Schooling, degrees.
Lazar: I have two Masters degrees. One’s in physics; one’s in electronics. I wrote my thesis on MHD which is magnetohydrodynamics.
85 I worked at Los Alamos for a few years as a technician and then as a physicist in the Polarized Proton Section dealing with the accelerator there.
I was hired at S-4 as a senior staff physicist to work on gravitational propulsion systems and whatnot associated with those crafts.
Caller: What school did you go to?
Lazar: I’d rather not say, the reason being I am currently working with them under contract and I’m having enough trouble with this as it is.
From Alien Contact by Timothy Good in a March 1990 interview:
“Bob told me that he had attended Pierce Junior College, California. Then the California Institute of Technology (Cal Tech). And the California State University at Northridge. A period of employment by Fairchild was followed by a return to Cal Tech. He claims to have obtained Master’s degrees in physics (his thesis: Magnetohydrodynamics) from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and in electronics from Cal Tech.
To date, no evidence for these degrees has been forthcoming. Although physicist Stanton Friedman has been able to verify that Lazar did indeed attend both Pierce Junior College and California State University, he drew a blank at MIT. ‘There’s no trace of him at MIT and no record of him having attended any course. Maybe he took a lot of courses but didn’t get a degree. That’s a possibility'”.
(Note of correction from TM: In personal correspondence, Stanton Friedman informed me that Good’s statement about Friedman’s verifications was in error. The only school that Friedman was able to find evidence of Lazar’s attendance at was Pierce College. Friedman stated to me he drew a blank on Lazar at Cal State Northridge.)
From the "Pre-Sentence Report" dated 7/27/90, for Lazar’s pandering conviction. This was as related by Lazar to the Parole/Probation officer preparing the report:
● 8-76, high school graduate, Westbury, New York (verified)
● 1978, Bachelor of Science Degree in Physics and Electronic Technology, Pacifica University (correspondence university).
● 1982, Masters of Science in Physics, MIT, Cambridge, Massachusetts.
● 1985, Masters of Science in Electronic Technology, Cal Tech, California.
From the “Ultimate UFO Seminar” at Rachel, Nevada, May 1, 1993:
Question: Bob, could you tell us about your education? I’ve heard a lot of conflicting things. I’d like to hear from you.
Lazar: That varies widely. As far as electronic technology, my degree there is from CalTech and physics is from MIT. 86
Question: Did you go to Pierce College?
Lazar: Yeah, I did. Where did you hear that?
Question: A friend that said something, somebody I don’t even know. I just thought it’s something I want to ask to clear my mind.
Lazar: Yeah, I went to Pierce and Northridge and then… I’m terrible at dates. I don’t know what date I was at Pierce. Probably like in 1976 or something I was at Pierce. And then 1977 or 1978, I went to Northridge just for a short time for some classes. Then I was at CalTech and MIT after that.
Later…
Question: What was the year of your graduation from MIT and did you get a Ph.D.?
Lazar: No, it was a Masters Degree. The year... What was the year of graduation? Probably 1982.
On the “Lark and Craig Morning Show” KOMP 92.3 FM, November 1994
Craig: Well, you’re a smart guy. Where did you go to school? How many degrees do you have?
Lazar: Two degrees.
Craig: In what?
Lazar: Physics and Electronic Technology.
Craig: So what is that? A Ph.D.? What is that?
Lazar: No. They’re Masters degrees.
Craig: Masters degrees.
Lark: Wow!
To summarize Lazar’s academic claims on the basis of his public statements he received the following:
● A Bachelors Degree in Physics and Electronic Technology from Pacifica University in 1978.
● A Masters Degree in Physics from MIT (Thesis: Magnetohydrodynamics) in 1982.
● A Masters Degree in either Electronics or Electronic Technology from CalTech in 1985.
Note that there is a reasonable amount of consistency to his story over its various tellings. However, at Lazar’s Rachel talk he said he went to CalTech and then MIT.
87 Analysis:
There is a lot of data to cover. So for a first pass through, let us just look at where Lazar was at various points in time and consider the possibilities of his attendance at the various schools that he’s claimed.
Lazar graduated from high school in August of 1976 on Long Island, New York. Following that, the Lazar family moved to California purchasing a home in the San Fernando Valley in June of 1977. It’s reasonable to assume that they had rented something in the area prior to purchasing the house. So that would have put Lazar in the area by late 1976 or early 1977.
Lazar has claimed to have attended Pierce College (a 2-year community college) in 1976. His attendance at this college (although not the precise time period) has been verified by Stanton Friedman. Lazar’s attendance at Pierce is quite likely given that he would have lived fairly close at that point in time.
Also in this general period, Lazar claimed to have attended Cal State Northridge “…just for a short time for some classes...” This is possible and wouldn’t conflict with his general whereabouts.
The next time we can pin down Lazar’s whereabouts was on July 27, 1980 when he married his first wife Carol. According to the marriage certificate, he was living in Canoga Park and he listed his occupation as “Electronics Engineer”. Curiously, he also listed his highest grade of schooling completed as 12. His location is consistent with statements he has made about working for Fairchild Industries which was located in the San Fernando Valley.
Moving into the future, Lazar again surfaces 2 years later in the famous Los Alamos Monitor Jet Car story on June 27, 1982. The paper said the Lazars had moved to Los Alamos “…about a month ago from California.” From other statements in the article, it’s apparent the Lazars had been in California for some time and that he had just started work at LANL.
Yet this is the year Lazar claimed on at least two occasions to have received a Masters degree from MIT. However, there is no evidence whatsoever that Lazar was anywhere other than California or Los Alamos during this time. Indeed, there is no evidence in ANY of the numerous public records concerning Lazar that he had ever been in or around Cambridge Massachusetts.
When Lazar filed for bankruptcy in July of 1986, the information he was required to provide gives a snapshot of his whereabouts and activities in the years immediately prior to his filing. Is there anything in this mass of data that could even remotely allow for Lazar to spend a year at CalTech obtaining his Masters degree as he has claimed in 1985?
Well, in it he states that the only places he’s lived in the previous 6 years were 2 addresses in Los Alamos (note that this is already incorrect since he didn’t arrive in Los Alamos until mid-1982). He also states that his occupation for the previous 6 years was as a photo processor at his residence. Oddly, Los Alamos employment was not mentioned.
It also shows that he was very active in the Los Alamos area in 1985 borrowing heavily, apparently in part to support his photo processing business. For example, the records show that in March, 1985, he borrowed $12,000 to upgrade his business’s film printers. Other purchases in 1985 included a Corvette for $19,000, a number of personal loans, and finally a house in Las Vegas in June of 1985.
88 If we are to believe Omni magazine (and I’ll leave that to the reader’s discretion), in 1985 Lazar was on vacation in Nevada and bought into a legal brothel near Reno.
Again, the records clearly show that in 1985 and the few prior years, Lazar was either at Los Alamos or occasionally Las Vegas. There is not the slightest hint that he may have been working away at a Masters degree in Pasadena at CalTech.
Now that we have an idea of where and when Lazar was, let’s take a more detailed look at what information is available for each school.
W. TRESPER CLARKE HIGH SCHOOL, WESTBURY, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK: There doesn’t seem to be any debate that Lazar did indeed attend and graduate from this school. In correspondence with Stanton Friedman, he stated to me: “Re the High School. Bob was graduated in August, not June, 1976, strongly suggesting that he had to take a summer course to get enough credits. He ranked 261 out of 369 (bottom third). He did take Chemistry. I obtained this information myself first-hand from the school. They will undoubtedly deny giving the class rank to me since that is privacy act protected… It is a long story.”
PACIFICA UNIVERSITY: The statement in his Presentencing Report that he received a Bachelors degree from Pacifica and labeled it a “correspondence university” is rather unique. I have seen a lot of statements made by Lazar concerning his education. But in none of them does he say where he received his undergraduate degree. It’s a subject that he seldom mentions.
Unfortunately, Pacifica University has proven difficult to locate. A number of national college directories were consulted including those listing vocational and correspondence schools. A few of the guides were “The College Blue Book”, “American Universities and Colleges”, and “The McMillan Guide to Correspondence Study”. Nowhere was there a Pacifica University listed.
The State of California Department of Education’s Council for Private, Post-Secondary, and Vocational Education was contacted. They regulate all vocational and correspondence schools within the state. They informed me that they had no listing for a Pacifica University within California,either now or in the past.
A search of statewide phone records (at least in California) did turn up a Pacifica Liquor Store. But as tempting an explanation as that might be, it probably has no relevancy. Assuming Lazar was enrolled in a correspondence school by the name of Pacifica University in the late 1970s, it would now appear to be out of business. Unless Lazar himself is forthcoming as to just where this establishment was, additional verification efforts are likely useless.
PIERCE COLLEGE: Lazar’s attendance at this institution has been corroborated although the extent of his attendance is not known. This was done some time ago by Stanton Friedman.
It was also done a second time by Friedman after Lazar spoke at Rachel, Nevada in May of 1993. When asked to name some of his professors at MIT and CalTech, Lazar responded with the name “Dr. Duxler” at CalTech. According to Glenn Campbell, the only Duxler listed in the 1993 “National Faculty Directory” was a William Duxler, Director of Computing for Pierce College.
According to personal correspondence, Friedman then contacted Duxler at Pierce who was found to teach physics and math at Pierce. Duxler stated he never taught at Caltech. Further, Duxler checked his old records and told Friedman that Lazar took at least one of his classes in the late 1970s.
89 CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY AT NORTHRIDGE: Some people looking into Lazar’s schooling at Cal State Northridge may have picked up a false positive due to an interesting coincidence. There was a Robert Lazar who attended Cal State Northridge and graduated with a Bachelor of Science degree in Business in 1978. However, a review of the photo in the 1978 CSUN yearbook the “Sunburst” clearly shows this is not our beloved Lazar but rather someone else.
As previously mentioned, Stanton Friedman stated that he checked with CSUN and found no evidence that Lazar had attended there. Timothy Good has apparently misstated that fact in his book Alien Contact.
MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: Standard inquiries have been made by George Knapp and Stanton Friedman and turned up nothing. Friedman informed me that he took the additional step of checking with the alumni office and at least the 1982 commencement list.
Glenn Campbell visited MIT in 1993 and searched through a number of the printed student records there. The idea behind this particular effort was that while elimination of computer records could be within the realm of possibility, it is essentially inconceivable that some agency would have the capability to change printed records that had widespread distribution.
Lazar (or any obvious misspellings of his name) was not listed in any MIT student directory between 1978 and 1990. Other publications checked included the MIT faculty/staff telephone directories from 1978-1990, the MIT “Degree List” from 1979-1990, and the 1989 “MIT Alumni/ae Register”.
This exhaustive searching coupled with the June 1982 Los Alamos Monitor story that puts Lazar in Los Alamos newly arrived from California leads to the inevitable conclusion that Lazar did not attend MIT as he claims.
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: Lazar has claimed on different occasions a Masters degree from CalTech in either electronics or electronic technology. Standard inquiries by Friedman and Knapp found no evidence of his attendance.
A recent visit by me with Natalie Gilmore of the CalTech Graduate Studies Department provided some important information. CalTech does not currently have nor has it ever had any sort of graduate degree in “electronics” or “electronic technology” or anything near those names. CalTech does offer a degree in Electrical Engineering.
Now if you have a friend or relative with an EE degree, you might in conversation refer to them as having a degree in “Electronics”, not realizing the distinction. However, if it is YOUR degree, it is highly unlikely after all the effort it required you would misstate what it was. People with advanced degrees (particularly in the science and engineering fields) are usually quite precise in the “pronunciation” of their degrees.
Assuming Lazar had a Bachelors degree from an unaccredited school (the two year schooling period and correspondence status infer this), I asked Ms. Gilmore what the possibilities were for admittance into a Masters program at CalTech. She said it was possible although extremely slim due to the intense competition for admittance to CalTech. She also added that the Masters programs there are one year and require full time attendance.
However, Ms. Gilmore provided some additional data that actually support Lazar’s case and in fairness should be mentioned. It seems that for most Masters programs at CalTech (including EE), a thesis is not required. Lazar has only claimed one thesis in MHD at MIT. 90
Furthermore, I had previously made a fairly exhaustive search through many years' worth of the CalTech yearbook “The Big T” and was unable to turn up any trace of Lazar. However, Ms. Gilmore informed me that graduate students are usually not included in the publication. So it would seem that my efforts in this area as reported in the timeline are inconclusive.
However, the lack of on-campus evidence coupled with his physical whereabouts still force the conclusion that Lazar never attended CalTech. His statement to the probation officer of a 1985 degree is particularly absurd in view of the activities he himself listed for 1985 in his bankruptcy papers.
After plowing through all this data, it is enough to satisfy me personally that Lazar never attended either CalTech or MIT. Of this I am certain of beyond a reasonable doubt.
How then do I explain the mystery of why Lazar clings so tenaciously to his claims of degrees from these institutions? I can’t really. To me, it is one of the great mysteries of his story. I find it hard to swallow he would maintain such a story in light of all the means of verification. Of course, there are other alternative explanations. But their probability is very small. Only Lazar has the answer of why.
Possible Explanations:
● Lazar has lied (and continues to do so) about his educational background. ● In addition to all his other activities, Lazar was able to find time to pursue higher education and actually may possess a degree or degrees but for unknown reasons wants to keep it secret and uses the CalTech and MIT degrees as a cover, taking the resultant abuse. ● The boys at S-4 as part of their efforts to discredit Lazar in some way implanted the absolute conviction in Lazar’s mind that he possesses the degrees, making him appear a fraud to anyone checking his past.
A note to the readers:
This pretty much concludes the series although I have 2 more installments planned. One is a list of little nagging questions (while not full fledged flaws) are still uncomfortable loose ends to the story that perhaps Gene Huff can explain. Then finally a wrap up where I’ll look at a number of various theories from the wild to the sublime.
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-education-huffs-response/ Gene Huff's Response
From netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews Mon May 15 19:29:33 1995 From: [email protected] (Gene Huff) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51,alt.paranet.ufo Subject: Re: THE LAZAR FLAWS – The Academic Background Date: 14 May 1995 17:25:43 GMT In
THE LAZAR FLAWS – The Academic Background 91
Tom,
I’ve had some computer problems during the past couple of weeks and for this reason I haven’t been able to promptly insult your integrity and question your intelligence (just joking). I resolved these things yesterday and now I’m back online. I also think it’s good that I respond to your last 3 posts now as some of the info and reasoning will overlap and this way it will be easier to follow for those who are interested.
I need to preface these responses with a little info about Bob Lazar’s personality. He’s very secretive and I always kid him about “compartmentalizing lunch”. What I mean by that is that if Bob Lazar doesn’t find that you have a need to know any of his personal business (even some things others would find trivial or irrelevant), he doesn’t share it or blows you off in the most convenient manner. He is truly the one single judge of who he should share information with and he judges only a very small group of people to be worthy of responses regarding his personal dealings and personal life in general.
For example, when we first started socializing together, one day Bob returned a call that I had left on his answering machine. His voice sounded scratchy and I asked him why. He responded: “I was out ’til three thirty last night”. I said: “Oh yeah? What did you do?” Bob said: “Why?” I was hardly prying. At first, I thought this was curious. But quickly I learned that that is just him. The things he doesn’t divulge are not terribly interesting or worthy of being secrets, he just considers those things to be his own private personal property.
The problem with some of your posts is that you have to use excerpts of things that Bob Lazar has said in years past as a constant and then you have to draw conclusions based on those presumptions. Because Bob had blown some of these people off in the manner he found most convenient, you’re in the same position as a mathematician who believes he has a constant in a formula and then it turns out to be a variable. That variable changes everything, the problem, and it’s outcome.
The fact that he blows people off to keep them out of his personal business had been evident for years. When you quote things from old newspaper articles, bankruptcy statements, and things of that sort, you need to remember that he didn’t know that he was going to become Bob the international UFO superstar.
For that reason, he didn’t know that everything he said would be so closely scrutinized or critical to whoever for whatever reason. I’m not making excuses here. I’m just trying to put things in perspective. The general readership can interpret his actions anyway they want.
Also, back to the bankruptcy for a moment. You and others always try and employ the bankruptcy as some sort of guide and you also imply things about Lazar’s “financial troubles”. He obviously had reason to file bankruptcy. But this doesn’t mean he was destitute. Depending on the circumstances, when confronted with legal financial problems, the first words out of your attorney’s mouth will be “file bankruptcy”. It’s a “get out of jail free” card and attorneys use it every day.
For instance, a year-or-two ago entertainer Wayne Newton filed Bankruptcy here in Las Vegas and he was making a million dollars a month. Numerous people file bankruptcy every day and retain their home, car, and even charge cards. So let’s not overstate the importance of a bankruptcy.
Also, Bob had his ex-wife Tracy fill out many of those bankruptcy papers. Tracy was not a high school graduate and was quite naïve (although certainly not a complete dummy). If you look at those bankruptcy papers, you’ll see that she listed (and I’m not being specific here because I don’t remember 92 the exact figures) something like $15,000 owed to a bank on a little Honda car that was worth less than half that. As you know, one could never get a loan like that from a bank and certainly Bob Lazar knows that.
This shows Tracy’s naivety which is evident throughout the bankruptcy statement although I know it’s also Bob’s fault because he signed the bankruptcy statement. People also include people on their bankruptcy statement to allow others to get Federal Income Tax relief in the form of a bad debt loss.
For instance, if one’s father had paid a large chunk of money for one’s schooling, the father would not necessarily consider that a loan, just part of the cost of being a parent. However, if that person was filing bankruptcy, that person could include that money as a debt allowing that person’s father to get tax relief.
Now I’m not implying that Bob Lazar specifically did this. Nor am I trying to incriminate him in any way. I’m just pointing out that bankruptcy proceedings are generally handled by a trustee who doesn’t give a damn about anything but dividing up and distributing your assets (if you have any) to your creditors. This is the reason no one questioned Tracy listing that $10,000+ loan on that $5,000 car.
I had a female friend from northern Cal file bankruptcy and beat me out of $7,000 I had loaned her for ATTORNEY’S FEES of all things! I protested this and the trustee didn’t actually even know where she lived. He only knew the address she had submitted and he didn’t verify that address. Nor did he really care. I forfeited the whole seven grand.
My point here is that many people envision bankruptcy as this official, all encompassing, terrible thing that is closely monitored and researched by the court. And that simply isn’t true. I met Bob Lazar around that bankruptcy time and he had a jet powered Honda, a jet “rail type” dragster (worth about a hundred grand), a house, and a photo lab business. This was certainly not the most “down and out” person I’ve ever met.
Okau, enough with the background. Now I’ll try and answer what I can.
> I worked at Los Alamos for a few years as a technician and then as a physicist in the Polarized Proton Section dealing with the accelerator there.
I’d like to note here that Bob states that he started at Los Alamos in a technician’s position and was later given a physicist’s position. This was before anyone was closely scrutinizing his claims. And as you see, he was being honest.
> From the "Pre-Sentence Report" dated 7/27/90 for Lazar’s pandering conviction. This was as related by Lazar to the Parole/Probation officer preparing the report:
● 8-76, high school graduate, Westbury, New York (verified)
● 1978, Bachelor of Science Degree in Physics and Electronic Technology, Pacifica University (correspondence university).
● 1982, Masters of Science in Physics, MIT, Cambridge, Massachusetts.
● 1985, Masters of Science in Electronic Technology, Cal Tech, California.
93 We need to clarify this right up front. Bob never ever told this Dept. of Probation knucklehead that he graduated from Pacifica University. He told her he took an English course and a history course from there. Bob needed these courses to get complete the requirements for a degree. He was simply taking the course of least resistance to achieve his goals. He had taken enough courses in science-related subjects mathematics, physics, electronics, technical writing, etc. but lacked a couple of courses which are required to assemble the other courses into a degree.
Why would the Probation underling state that? Bob had a true personality conflict with this woman. She had an attitude and so did he. She wanted to treat him like he was an actual panderer or pimp. All he did was install some electronic equipment in a brothel. He had already plead guilty. But those of us around him were trying to convince him to change his plea and he was considering this. For this reason, he wasn’t sure the Probation report would be required and he wasn’t terribly cooperative. He didn’t envision himself as a panderer and she did.
For instance, the Probation report also stated that Bob had some wine when he was 13. That’s a curious thing to include in a Probation report and here’s how it happened. Bob was being questioned by this Probation woman and they were already at odds.
She said: “Do you drink?” to which Bob responded “NO” which is true. She said: “You mean you’ve NEVER drank?” Bob said: “Well, maybe I had a sip of wine at Thanksgiving when I was 13 or something. But no, generally I don’t drink”. And the interview degenerated from there.
So this Probation report was a summary from someone getting partial information from Bob. Information which (in true Bob Lazar form) he deemed to be none of her business. He was not afraid of her as he could have easily changed his plea and gone to trial. The Probation report summary is too lengthy and complex to include here. But the point is, he did not state that he graduated from Pacifica University and that was a presumption on her part. As you personally know, this was not the only presumption that she made.
> he listed his occupation as “Electronics Engineer”. Curiously, he also listed his highest grade of schooling completed as 12.
Again, he had taken all of the prerequisite math and science courses but lacked the English and History credits to parlay it into a degree. Without yet having a college degree, he considered himself to yet be a 12th grade graduate. He’s not the type to say that he’s completed 13th or 14th or 15h grade as some tend to do.
>From other statements in the article, it’s apparent the Lazars had been in California for some time and that he had just started work at LANL.
Actually, the article does imply that Bob had recently started at Los Alamos. However, the article offers little to establish where Bob had been for the prior 2 years. And even if it had (which it doesn’t,) we would have to presume that he thought a newspaper reporter was worthy of knowing something about his personal life.
> However there is no evidence whatsoever that Lazar was anywhere other than California or Los Alamos during this time.
There is also no evidence that he was in California. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (or at least that’s what Stanton Friedman always says). Did you know that Bob has 3 high school
94 buddies, one who’s father was a scientist who went to MIT after high school? Did you know that Bob has a sister who was also adopted who still lives in New York? If you had, this could have helped you with alternative theories of where he could have possibly lived, with whom, and when.
>When Lazar filed for bankruptcy in July of 1986, the information he was required to provide gives a snapshot of his whereabouts and activities in the years immediately prior to his filing.
No. Actually because Bob Lazar did not find a bankruptcy trustee worthy of knowing his personal business. It provides only a snapshot of how Bob blew them off. Nothing more.
>Well, in it he states that the only places he’s lived in the previous 6 years were 2 addresses in Los Alamos (note that this is already incorrect since he didn’t arrive in Los Alamos until mid-1982). He also states that his occupation for the previous 6 years was as a photo processor at his residence. Oddly, Los Alamos employment was not mentioned.
Yet we know that he worked at Los Alamos. That’s not odd. Not from Bob. You have just proven that my assertion about Bob Lazar and his personal business has some merit.
>It also shows that he was very active in the Los Alamos area in 1985 borrowing heavily, apparently in part to support his photo processing business.
It would be a mistake to presume that monies that exchanged hands were evidence of his level of activity in New Mexico especially since he was already living in Nevada. He just hadn’t bought a house yet. What amounts can be interpreted as “borrowing heavily” is subjective and depends on one’s personal financial predicament. The only reason he borrowed was to avoid borrowing money from his dad. His father could have solved all of Bob’s financial problems from his check book.
BTW, one has to be financially solvent or at least an acceptable risk to borrow that kind of money, doesn’t one? He had photo processing machines in Nevada also. In fact, he still has both sets. What you find apparent is inaccurate and not really "apparent at all.
>If we are to believe Omni magazine (and I’ll leave that to the reader’s discretion), in 1985 Lazar was on vacation in Nevada and bought into a legal brothel near Reno.
Omni is infinitely more accurate than the other fragmented public records on which you’ve had to rely.
>He did take Chemistry. I obtained this information myself first hand from the school. They will undoubtedly deny giving the class rank to me since that is privacy act protected… It is a long story.”
It’s a long story alright. One right out of Stan Friedman’s dreams. The school said they simply told Friedman that Bob was not "Number 1' in his class and did not give a specific rank. However, I can easily see Bob getting good grades in math and science and mediocre grades in other subjects as he would not deem classes like World History and English Lit as being worthy.
Why would Friedman, a widely respected father figure from the UFO community, be so malicious as to fabricate or alter a story? Because Friedman is on welfare in Canada where he is allegedly caring for
95 his AIDS-laden children. Per Friedman, the AIDS is via blood transfusions for hemophilia, not homosexuality.
Friedman supplements his welfare by giving UFO talks. He had not given Bob Lazar his seal of approval. It truly hurts Friedman that he can’t control this and so many people believe the Bob Lazar story. Friedman sees Lazar receiving financial remuneration from his story and from the movie/Testor model. This enrages him. This was the cause for his outburst on the Larry King Live UFO Special.
Friedman is on the ropes financially and he needs to disprove Lazar’s story to get back into the limelight. This disallows him from being as neutral as he has historically been. This would be frustrating for any patriarch who wasn’t able to properly care for his children. However, it still confuses me as to why a scientist couldn’t better care for his children by getting a job and producing more income. That’s curious.
>This exhaustive searching, coupled with the June 1982 Los Alamos “Monitor” story that puts Lazar in Los Alamos newly arrived from California, leads to the inevitable conclusion that Lazar did not attend MIT as he claims.
Bob Lazar had to petition for his diplomas because he had hodgepodged all of his classes from various institutions. This is the reason he doesn’t show up as a full-time student anywhere. The Los Alamos Monitor said he just moved there from California. It doesn’t say where Bob was before that. And if it did, we would have to wonder if Bob thought they were worthy of the truth.
>However, Ms. Gilmore provided some additional data that actually support Lazar’s case and in fairness should be mentioned. It seems that for most Masters programs at Caltech (including EE), a thesis is not required. Lazar has only claimed one thesis in MHD at MIT.
So what do you think, Tom? Did he fabricate all of this educational info and simply luck out by stating that he had two Masters’ degrees and one thesis? Or could there be some substance to that?
>His statement to the probation officer of a 1985 degree is particularly absurd in view of the activities he himself listed for 1985 in his bankruptcy papers.
I think we’ve more than covered that. Like it or not, those documents are not reliable. They’re just the best you’ve had. You had to suspect their accuracy long before now.
> Of this I am certain of beyond a reasonable doubt.
Or at least you were certain when you thought you had more constants than variables. Now your equation is pretty much worthless. That doesn’t prove that your answer is wrong. It simply proves that the method used to arrive at your conclusion is errant.
>How then do I explain the mystery of why Lazar clings so tenaciously to his claims of degrees from these institutions? I can’t really. To me, it is one of the great mysteries of his story. I find it hard to swallow he would maintain such a story in light of all the means of verification. Of course, there are other alternative explanations. But their probability is very small.
96 Boy, I have to agree here. As I have been in no better position than anyone else to verify his credentials, to retain a measure of skepticism, I’ve had to examine the possibility that Bob has overstated his credentials. Even if he did, all things considered, I still believe he worked in the program at S4.
However, if he had done that, why would he choose MIT and CalTech, the coveted technical institutions? Also, I don’t know why a guy like Bob who has a wealthy father as well as the brains to attend those institutions would claim to do so when he had not. The probability of alternative explanations may be small. But they apparently do exist. And you’re right. Only Bob has the answers.
>3. The boys at S-4 as part of their efforts to discredit Lazar in some way implanted the absolute conviction in Lazar’s mind that he possesses the degrees making him appear a fraud to anyone checking his past.
No. This isn’t even a possibility. Bob stated to me and others that he had these degrees before he ever worked at S4. If he’s hiding something other than those 2 correspondence courses he got from Pacifica, it runs deep in his mind and started long before he lived in Nevada. It would still be interesting to know why Los Alamos hired him. But they’re not talking, either.
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-odds-and-ends/ (The Lazar Flaws) Odds and Ends
In assembling the data for this series, there were some areas that generated some nagging questions. While the available information didn’t suggest these areas were full-fledged flaws in Lazar’s story, they are curious. Some may be easily explained and some maybe not. In any case, the following are presented for the readers to consider:
1. Both Omni Magazine and Timothy Good’s Alien Contact reported that Lazar bought at least partial ownership in a legal brothel near Reno in the early 1980s. Good said it was called “The Honeysuckle Ranch”. Omni reported the investment was so profitable Lazar didn’t have to return to full-time employment for several years. However, such an ownership was not mentioned in Lazar’s bankruptcy papers in 1986. A search of Nevada telephone directories failed to turn up a listing for a “Honeysuckle Ranch” nor was it listed in the book The Best Cat Houses in Nevada by J.R. Schwartz (Obviously an impeccable reference!)
2. Lazar has stated he was driven to S-4 from Groom in a bus over dirt roads. The fact that it was in a bus implies that the road would have to be in fairly decent condition and certainly not a jeep trail. However, a review of the satellite photo of Papoose Lake on Lazar’s very own poster shows no evidence of such a road. Roads of varying quality do clearly show up on the east side of the Papoose Range. So the photo obviously should be able to resolve them were they there.
3. Lazar said at Rachel in 1993 that when he got on the bus at Groom to go to S-4, usually only Dennis Mariani was on the bus with him. Only occasionally was there one other person. Yet there were a number of others at S-4, technicians, scientists and security. How did they come and go? Why was Lazar brought in at such unusual times that everyone else was already at work? Perhaps they used a different method they did not want to reveal to Lazar?
97 4. Lazar has said on several occasions that aside from the security, working at S-4 was a “dream job”. He also claims to have had a 'Q' clearance so should be quite familiar with the requirements of working in a highly secret compartmentalized environment. Yet he easily violated all his signed agreements and oaths by freely disclosing information to his friends. He even set up 3 “group outings” for he and his friends to witness flight operations of what I’m sure Lazar would agree is the most secret program that the U.S. has. Why would someone familiar with Government security requirements not only jeopardize his job but also his very freedom to do such a thing?
5. Another part of the tale Lazar relates is that he had in his possession (apparently after he had been dropped from the program) a small quantity of Element-115. He says he acquired this from contacts at Los Alamos where Lazar says the material was machined. Lazar said that his house was broken into and the 115 taken. At Rachel in 1993, Lazar added that the 115 was in PRIVATE hands. What is meant by “private hands”? And why would the Government allow a material capable of a devastating antimatter reaction rest in private hands? http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-odds-and-ends-huffs-response/ Gene Huff's Response
From netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews Mon May 15 19:32:39 1995 Xref: netcom.com alt.conspiracy.area51:1296 alt.paranet.ufo:25878 From: [email protected] (Gene Huff) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51,alt.paranet.ufo Subject: Re: THE LAZAR FLAWS – Odds and Ends Date: 14 May 1995 18:08:14 GMT In
>1. Good said it was called “The Honeysuckle Ranch”. Omni reported the investment was so profitable Lazar didn’t have to return to full-time employment for several years. However, such an ownership was not mentioned in Lazar’s bankruptcy papers in 1986.
Tom,
It was in the process of being changed to the Honeysuckle Ranch when the license was put on ice. I have business cards and even brochures from the Honeysuckle Ranch in my office. However, this was not the actual name it was licensed under and the license was in Bob’s first wife’s name (Carol). The license was put on ice due to an AIDS scare. The claim ended up being unfounded. But by then, Nevada had put a moratorium on opening or reopening brothels. For whatever reason, back then the license also had to be in a woman’s name.
Anyway, Carol died and the brothel was never reopened or pursued at all. This could have been worth a lot of money to Bob. Yet he simply relinquished it. Where did he get the money to invest in a legal brothel? Why from his, dad, of course.
George Knapp had the same trouble tracking down this brothel. I gave him the actual name of it and everything checked out. I could give you that here. But I don’t think it’s conducive to proving or disproving anything about Bob’s story. I think I covered Bob’s lack of respect for those bankruptcy papers in my response to your last post. So I’ll refrain from restating that here.
98 [Update Note: Since this piece was put out, I’ve come across other information and witness that seem to confirm the existence of a brothel owned by Lazar – Tom]
2. Lazar has stated he was driven to S-4 from Groom in a bus over dirt roads. The fact that it was in a bus implies that the road would have to be in fairly decent condition and certainly not a jeep trail. However, a review of the satellite photo of Papoose Lake on Lazar’s very own poster shows no evidence of such a road.
Actually, that road wasn’t much more than a jeep trail. But it is there. The disc on the poster covers that road and the road isn’t evident once you're on Papoose dry lake bed. The poster isn’t a fair assessment of the existence of that road. I’ve seen the original satellite positives, one of which was used to make the poster. And the road is clearly there.
>3. Lazar said at Rachel in 1993 that when he got on the bus at Groom to go to S-4, usually only Dennis Mariani was on the bus with him. Only occasionally was there one other person. Yet there were a number of others at S-4, technicians, scientists and security. How did they come and go? Why was Lazar brought in at such unusual times that everyone else was already at work? Perhaps they used a different method they did not want to reveal to Lazar?
Man, you find mystery in the strangest places. Maybe I’ve just known these answers for so long that they’re simply not curious to me.
Anyway, Mariani was Bob’s personal security escort. That’s why he was always around. When Bob first started, they told him that he’s be working on an “on call” basis for a while. Because of not working full time at first, Bob correctly did not anticipate much income. So Bob told them that he’d have to keep his photo business going during the daytime to survive. They agreed. Although if he had stayed in the program, it was understood that he’d later go full time and have to get someone else to handle the photo lab.
They had planes going back-and-forth from EG&G to Groom all the time, either carrying workers or ferrying the plane back to get more workers. So this was of no consequence to them. It was the same with the bus. Anyway, they let Bob come out then so he could keep his daytime income until such time as he went full time. (I’d like to point out that we really have no idea when and how the others at S4 went to work.)
Nothing indicates that they even had to live in Nevada. They may have been flown in from California or New Mexico or even stayed at the Test Site and only went to their respective homes in their respective states on weekends. Who knows? Anyway, this is the reason for the unusually small numbers of people on the bus with Bob and Mariani.
>4. Lazar has said on several occasions that aside from the security, working at S-4 was a “dream job”. He also claims to have had a 'Q' clearance so should be quite familiar with the requirements of working in a highly secret compartmentalized environment. Yet he easily violated all his signed agreements and oaths by freely disclosing information to his friends. He even set up 3 “group outings” for he and his friends to witness flight operations of what I’m sure Lazar would agree is the most secret program that the U.S. has. Why would someone familiar with Government security requirements not only jeopardize his job but also his very freedom to do such a thing?
99 I think I pretty much answered all of this in that synopsis I posted a few months back. I can post it again if you’d like. What his decisions required were intelligence and courage. Things that elude many people.
>5. Another part of the tale Lazar relates is that he had in his possession (apparently after he had been dropped from the Program) a small quantity of element 115. He says that he acquired this from contacts at Los Alamos where Lazar says the material was machined. Lazar said his house was broken into and the 115 taken. At Rachel in 1993, Lazar added that the 115 was in PRIVATE hands. What is meant by “private hands”? And why would the Government allow a material capable of a devastating antimatter reaction rest in private hands?
The Government wouldn’t allow that if they had a choice or if they knew where it was at. Since it’s not radioactive, it’s much more difficult to find. I’d personally say it was in “Private Concrete” moreso than in “Private Hands”. And that’s all I would say.
The Government would have a difficult time searching for it overtly. What would they say? “We’re searching for a heavy element that we haven’t shared with the rest of the Earth’s scientists”? I don’t think so.
When asked why it was important, would they say “Because we use it as fuel in our extraterrestrial discs”? Again, I don’t think so.
They’re truly between a rock and a hard place and I’m sure some Government people somewhere would like to choke the you-know-what out of Bob Lazar. I’m not confident that they won’t do that somewhere down the line when he fades into the background and isn’t so high profile.
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-theories/ (The Lazar Flaws) Theories
Over the past few months, there’s been a lot of information put out on the Net regarding Lazar. Some of it was fresh. Some older and well known. A lot of questions have been raised. But solid answers have been tough to come by.
What is the real story here? Someone probably knows. But just who that someone is, I don’t know. I do know it’s not me!
As I’ve threatened, as conclusion to this series I’ve put a listing (probably incomplete) of various theories I’ve come across. I’ve added a few comments based upon what I’ve learned. (Snicker as you like.)
Whatever theory you subscribe to, remember this: It needs to explain ALL aspects of the case and not just the blatant or easy ones. To come up with a theory that explains it all (The Unified Bob Theory??) is not an easy thing to do.
100 Lazar is lying and fabricated the whole story.
This is the knee-jerk answer. But I don’t buy it for a second. The fatal flaw to this is that Lazar brought a pack of his friends out on 3 occasions to view operations of something very strange. Also, there has been a bit of corroboration to some parts of his story. This theory, while comforting to many, just doesn’t explain it all.
Lazar is telling the truth.
Ah, the other extreme. I can’t buy this either. If he’s being fully truthful, then why does he insist on clinging to his bogus claims of CalTech and MIT degrees? Also (with the possible exception of Los Alamos), Lazar hasn’t suffered from the mysterious loss of his records as he’s claimed. There are plenty of Lazar records to be found.
Well hell! If he’s not lying but not telling the truth, then what’s going on? Probably something in between making things difficult for us.
Lazar is simply retelling a story he heard from someone else who worked at Groom or Papoose.
This theory has several variations including the idea that he got the story while regularly visiting one of the local brothels and the story was passed on from one of the girls who got it from her clients. The major problems with this is again the educational background; the precision with which Lazar called the test nights; and also the apparent fact that Government agents were witnessed at Lazar’s home by others. Further, the tale Lazar told his friends seemed to evolve over time.
Lazar had some sort of position at Groom Lake, and heard stories and rumors of Papoose.
A possibility. However given the strong compartmentalization going on, it’s highly unlikely such detailed stories would be floating around Groom. Were that the case, other Groom workers would have picked it up also and that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Lazar was at S-4. But it was a setup and he was shown what he was “supposed” to see. He was the patsy.
The idea behind this theory is that the Government wanted to get out some dis-information (for uncertain purposes) and staged the episode for Lazar’s benefit, knowing of his association with Lear, and inability to keep it secret. If that’s the case, some elements might be real (e.g., the flight test). But others false (e.g., the other 8 craft). Bringing in Lazar at lengthy intervals essentially on his own and having him closely shadowed by security while at S-4 points in this direction.
I think most of us severely underestimate the cleverness of the folks out around Groom. They are not stupid! This doesn’t deal with his academic background, however. If this is indeed the case, then whoever dreamed up this operation probably got fired as a result of the major tourist influx it eventually generated. I kind of like this one.
But it doesn’t explain everything.
101 Lazar was at S-4 but had his mind mucked with.
While perhaps outlandish, this is an “explain it all” theory. By installing the certainty in Lazar that he does have degrees from MIT and CalTech, among other things, he’s easily discredited and the real memories he might possess dismissed. Is it real or is it Memorex?
The 2 variations on this theory hold that the min- mucking was planned from the start as dis- information or that it was done after he bolted from the program. The big question is do we have such mind-manipulating capabilities?
However, Lazar has undergone hypnosis and some cracking of such implanted memories should have occurred. Even so, I find it hard to fathom that Lazar (when presented with evidence that he never attended the schools he’s claimed) didn’t start an investigation of his own into alternate possibilities. Another theory I find somewhat attractive.
[StealthSkater note: A recent twist to the famous Betty and Barney Hill UFO abduction event doc pdf URL (which led to the previously unknown Zeta Rectuli star system) was that so-called "memory screen implants" were performed on the married couple. Another side twist to this story was that it was done by Government agents under supervision of aliens.
Also, weren't there later reports that Lazar did in fact undergo hypnosis and even passed several lie detector tests? Now that doesn't mean that his events really occurred but rather that he is telling the truth as far as he "knows".]
Lazar was at S-4 but has been bought off.
This theory holds that this entire episode was orchestrated. Lazar, due to his financial situation, was “hired” or used as part of a dis-information effort and has participated willingly. Part of his contract would include his insistence of his degrees casting just enough doubt on him that his story becomes gray. His story becomes a classic mixture of truth and lies. Were this the case, then not even Lazar’s friends would know.
If this theory is correct, then what actually is at S-4 is anyone’s guess. Again, another “explain it all” theory. Intellectually, I like this one a lot. But emotionally, it just doesn’t "feel" right.
Lazar and friends have concocted the story for financial reasons.
A theory I can’t subscribe to. The amount of money these boys have been pulling in is chump change compared to if they REALLY wanted to market it. Now what constitutes "chump change" is admittedly subjective. But considering the time involved, ridicule and abuse, I can’t see them getting a reasonable return. Then there is the problem that some of the story has been corroborated.
Also, if it were just a money-making scam, they could come up with a much better story for Lazar’s lack of educational background.
Whew! Well, that’s it. Take your pick. It’s all true and none of it’s true.
102 If you’re looking for closure, well, I guess you’re out of luck. There are no answers. Only more questions. Learn to enjoy the process and force yourself not to leap to conclusions. The conclusions will eventually become obvious.
Above all… Think for yourself!
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/lazar-flaws-theories-_huffs-response/ Gene Huff's Response
From netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews Mon May 15 19:36:45 1995 Path: netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: [email protected] (Gene Huff) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51,alt.paranet.ufo Subject: Re: THE LAZAR FLAWS – Theories Date: 14 May 1995 19:00:22 GMT In
> Lazar is telling the truth. > Ah, the other extreme. I can’t buy this either. If he’s being fully truthful, then why does he insist on clinging to his bogus claims of CalTech and MIT degrees? Also with the possible exception of Los Alamos, Lazar hasn’t suffered from the mysterious loss of his records as he’s claimed. There are plenty of Lazar records to be found.
You haven’t proven that Bob does not have degrees from those institutions. You’ve drawn conclusions from formulas with inaccurate constants. You can fault Bob for not being forthcoming with accurate information to complete strangers. But that’s the way he is. The missing records are with the exception of Los Alamos AND S4. The documents you’ve found are simply from varying recorder’s offices’ microfilm.
I’ve noticed that others are impressed by that. But as you and I have both formerly worked for the Government and know how to use that system, it’s really nothing. And you know it. You don’t need to get rid of records of where Bob’s mom and dad lived and when Bob got divorced and who sneezed when to stop an investigation. The important relevant records are missing and even Los Alamos had been caught lying to try and disavow knowledge of Bob Lazar.
I know that’s not conclusive. But neither is your assertion that there are plenty of records to be found. The important ones are gone. That’s the bottom line and that’s what counts. I know that’s negative with regard to the education and positive with regards to Los Alamos. But it’s reality either way.
[StealthSkater note: I'm not using this to validate Bob's story in particular. But I found it extremely interesting that governments can effectively "erase" a prominent person from history. Wernher von Braun was the head of NASA's 1960s Moon program. He was able to attract the best scientists and engineers and had unlimited resources to create the powerful Saturn V rocket.
His Soviet counterpart was Sergei Korolev. However in those days despite the Moon race with the United States, priority (as far as the best minds and resources) were given to the Russian 103 ICBM programs. It is not surprising that the first test of the Soviet Saturn V equivalent exploded on the launch pad. The authorities were so embarrassed that they virtually conceded the manned race to the Moon to the Americans and imprisoned Korolev and removed his name from all of their educational history books. One of their remaining "Saturn V"s was converted into a gigantic chicken coup-hatchery. It wasn't until decades later that Korolev's name was restored to its proper place.
The point being is that governments can "erase" public records (even retroactively). Another example is when they (the U.S. Government, no less!) burned/destroyed all of Wilhelm Reich's books on orgone energy doc pdf URL . None other than Einstein himself calculated a parameter in one of Reich's orgone equations. Reich had claimed that a "destructive orgone" (DOR) gun could bring down UFOs.]
> Lazar is simply retelling a story he heard from someone else who worked at Groom or Papoose. > This theory has several variation, including the idea that he got the story while regularly visiting one of the local brothels and the story was passed on from one of the girls who got it from her clients.
This has to be my favorite. Especially since no one other than you has ever even jokingly entertained this as a possibility. This would be a great brothel. You could get laid and find out information on the most secret program in the history of the Earth. Maybe even some of the secrets of the universe if you went there often enough. If that’s true, I WANT TO GO THERE. But my wife probably wouldn’t like it.-
> Lazar was at S-4. But it was a setup and he was shown what he was “supposed” to see. He was the patsy. > The idea behind this theory is that the Government wanted to get out some dis-information (for uncertain purposes) and staged the episode for Lazar’s benefit, knowing of his association with Lear and inability to keep it secret.
Total BS! Lazar’s association with Lear was grand in Lear’s mind. But not in reality. If you don’t believe that Lear’s other claims are true such as "There’s a 5 square mile roof over Area51 that the jets have to land under"; "We’re all being eaten by aliens" ; "there are 2 billion aliens living in the mountains which flank the highway from Vegas to Groom", etc., then why would you believe his claims about Lazar?
The Government did not link Lazar with Lear. They already knew that Lear was a knucklehead anyway. Maybe you didn’t. But they did. They also had no doubts about his ability to keep a secret. His record from Los Alamos was flawless. So this is totally unsubstantiated.
> Lazar was at S-4 but had his mind mucked with. > While perhaps outlandish, this is an “explain it all” theory. By installing the certainty in Lazar that he does have degrees from MIT and CalTech, among other things, he’s easily discredited, and the real memories he might possess dismissed.
Totally impossible. He stated that he had degrees before he ever worked at S4. I can substantiate this through numerous people.
104 > Lazar was at S-4 but has been bought off. > This theory holds that this entire episode was orchestrated. Lazar, due to his financial situation, was “hired” or used as part of a dis-information effort and has participated willingly.
His “financial situation” never existed. Bankruptcy alleviates your debts. He also has a wealthy father. We covered this in your previous posts.
> Lazar and friends have concocted the story for financial reasons. >A theory I can’t subscribe to… Also if it were just a money-making scam, they could come up with a much better story for Lazar’s lack of educational background.
You’re right about the chump change. You’re also right about fabricating an educational background if we desired. We could have also fabricated diplomas from Cal Tech and MIT. However, if the schools won’t back you up, there as worthless as simple claims.
I’m sure you’ll respond to some of these posts and some of your fans need that. You see, the scenario that you like best has Bob Lazar working at S4. Yet you imply that you’re not certain what went on out there. However, in a private email, you’ve told me that you think that the disc program has been moved to New Mexico. If you think that it’s been moved, that means you must think that it existed to begin with.
Now as you have been perceived as the premiere “Lazar Assassin”, this crushes the souls of some of your more vociferous fans. They’re going to need some psychiatric counseling to come to grips with the fact that you’re open minded to the possibility that Bob Lazar actually worked on flying saucers.
I think they’ve also seen that part of your reputation was gained when there was no one like me on the Net to offer some reality as a counterpoint. They’ve also seen that your priorities, assertions, and conclusions may differ with theirs. I assure you that many of them find the fact that Federal agencies stated that “information on Bob Lazar is on a need-to-know basis and you don’t need-to-know” is infinitely more significant than something that was inadvertently ambiguously stated on the old Billy Goodman radio show. They might not like to hear things like that. But inside, they know they’re more significant.
I think you did a good job. But even you must admit that anyone is at great disadvantage when all they have to base their conclusions on is recorder’s office documents and clips from old interviews. The manner in which you offered the Lazar Flaws series caused some of these problems and maybe next time we can do it a different way. What you have done is some research that others don’t have the time, or money, or motivation, or know-how to do and they should thank you for that. You didn’t reveal anything that I didn’t know. However, I think I revealed some things that you didn’t know.
I understand you’ve been invited as a guest to DB9, huh? If you show up, I’ll see you there!
105 http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/gene-huff-reviews-the-lazar-corner/ Gene Huff reviews "The Lazar Corner"
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 07:26:42 -0700 Message-Id: <[email protected]> From: [email protected] (Gene Huff) Subject: Your usual bullshit To: [email protected] Status: RO
Tom,
As you may have seen or heard, I haven’t been on the newsgroups lately as periodically Bob Lazar and I have to make some history so the rest of you can have lives and something to talk about.
Anyway, I just wanted to drop you a note to tell you how comical you are. Someone emailed me and wanted me to finally look at your www page. You always try and augment your negative slant on the Lazar story while suggesting you’re neutral. You and Goober (i.e., Glenn Campbell) wish so badly that you could be in the limelight. Yet you’re torn because without Lazar you have no limelight. It’s a scream.
Then you add Mark Farmer, the queen geek. When I read your boring, inaccurate rhetoric I’m torn between respecting you and spitting on you. No matter how badly you guys hope the Lazar movie deal has been squelched because of your efforts, it is THE most prized possession of New Line Cinema (which by the way was just passed on to Time-Warner in the sale of Turner).
I thought that you were supposed to retrieve those lost responses to your Flaws series via De Ja Vu to make it complete. Where are they? If you post them, people will see the first one where you suggest that Bob Lazar would rather be known as a liar and cheat than let it be known that he was adopted. They’ll know that you knowingly misinformed them in the name of discretion (at least your perverted view of discretion). Posting that would take honesty and courage. A couple of things that seem to be out of your grasp. That would show people the true you.
Honest, dishonest, intelligent, stupid, hip, naive, all whenever it’s convenient. You’re a scream. A sad scream. But a scream!
I don’t really think this is worthy of the "Wit and Wisdom of Gene Huff", do you? I guess that depends on how much stardom you’re longing for. Poor Tom.
-- Gene
106 http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the- bob-lazar-corner/element-115-tidbits/ Element 115 Leads?
A while back, I had the need to take a peek at a copy of the Periodic Table of Elements. So I grabbed my old dusty college chemistry book that I could never quite bring myself to toss. It’s called “Chemical Principles”, published WAY back in 1970 (God, I must be old!).
While looking through the book, I was stunned (that’s about the right word) when I came across a discussion of the possibilities of new elements. I guess I should have paid more attention in class. I offer the following quote from pages 509 and 510:
“What lies ahead for the synthesis of transUranium elements? Will there be more radioactive and extremely short-lived species such as 97 through 104? It now appears as if there is a chance of reaching a new zone of stability that might even include some none radioactive elements. Calculations with nuclear shell models have led to the expectation that Element-114 with 114 protons and 184 neutrons (both magic numbers in the new shell theory) would be an island of stability in a sea of instability.”
There is further discussion as to how 114 might be made and a neat illustration showing the islands of stability of all elements and their isotopes. With more surprise, I noted that it was taken from an article in the April 1969 (pages 57-67) issue of Scientific American by Dr. Glenn Seaborg (One of the heavyweights in the field of Physics).
Well, this was an article I had to see. And I was not disappointed. Everything you ever wanted to know about super-heavy elements. There are some excellent graphics showing the expected half-lives of all the heavyweights. They predict a fission half-life for the most stable isotope of 114 of 10 to the 16th years and a alpha-decay half-life of 1,000 years. They didn’t go into the same level of detail for 115. But it looks like the stuff would clock out considerably sooner by way of beta decay. If you have any interest in the possibilities of 115, this article is a “must read”. (But sorry, there's no mention of gravity waves.)
All this in 1969! BTW, according to the article, the proper terminology to denote an undiscovered element in a periodic column is the prefix “eka”. Therefore 115 should be eka-Bismuth. Lose this Un- un-Pentium crap!
Ready for another snack?? I thought so.
The following is an excerpt from a telephone interview between Stanton Friedman (F) and Dr. Robert Sarabacher (S). The entire interview was transcribed by Harvey Stewart and was last posted to alt.paranet.ufo in January, 1995.
If you don’t know who Sarabacher was, in a sentence he was a prominent solid U.S. Government scientist who had a secret briefing with Canadian scientist Wilbert Smith in 1950. He told Smith that facts in a recent popular book about a UFO crash at Aztec, New Mexico were “essentially true” and that UFOs were classified by the US Government 2 points higher than the H bomb. Sarabacher was located in 1983 by William Steinman and Sarabacher confirmed the story. Sarabacher died in July 1986. A truly important piece of the UFO puzzle. [StealthSkater note: see => doc pdf URL ]
107 Before Sarabacher died, Stanton Friedman did a phone interview with him. In between Friedmann’s attempts to dig more UFO info out of Sarabacher, there was a lot of small talk,. Since Sarabacher was fairly old, he tended to ramble a bit. However, a most interesting statement was made by Sarabacher:
F: Were you guys talking about nuclear powered flight at that time?
S: Oh, we were possibly, yes. But I held ... had certain ideas ... See, one of the problems today, we really don’t know what Gravity is. We don’t know. And I had an idea. I’m willing to work on it in one of my theses but then my professor didn’t believe me. But I had determined that Bismuth did not obey the laws of Gravity.
So I thought that “Gee, there’s a leak”. I might be able to getNnature to tell me something.
F: Hmmm.
S: But they wouldn’t let me. They didn’t believe me. Well, they believed me but he said: “Hell. That’s a second order effect”.
F: (laugh)
S: Which is implying it was in in the area of the accuracy of the instrument.
F: Ya.
S: Well, it was. And it was clearly God somebody’s going to do something about it one day,….
So where exactly is Bismuth on the Periodic Table of Elements? Why, directly above where 115 would fall if it exists. And the way the Table works, (generally speaking) elements in the same column have similar properties.
So just what the hell was Sarabacher referring to? I don’t know. But it’s sure intriguing! It appears it was back when he was a grad student in maybe the 30s or 40s. Whatever it was, it was at the very edge of the ability of equipment at the time.
Does Bismuth possess any very subtle anomalous physical properties? A good reason for a little research time at the library.
if on the Internet, Press
108