Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 20 DECEMBER 1983

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

868 20 December 1983 Pa^rs

TUESDAY, 20 DECEMBER 1983

Mr SPEAKER (Hon, J. H, Wamer, Toowoomba South) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a,m, ASSENT TO BILLS Assent to the following BiUs reported by Mr Speaker— Wheat Pool (Validation of Proclamations) BiU; Mining Titles Freeholding Act Amendment BUI; Mines Regulation Act Amendment BUI (No. 2); Builders' Registration and Home-owners' Protection Act Amendment Bill.

OVERTIME PAID IN GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS Return to Order The following paper was laid on the table— Return to an Order made by the House on 25 November last, on the motion of Mr Simpson, showing the amount of overtime paid in each Government department (aU funds) in 1982-83. PAPERS The foUowing papers were laid on the table, and ordered to be printed— Reports— Port of Authority for the year ended 30 June 1983 Mackay Harbour Board for the year ended 30 June 1983 Board of Trustees of Newstead House for the year ended 30 June 1983 Commissioner of Main Roads for the year ended 30 Jime 1983 Department of Mines for the period 1 January 1982 to 30 June 1983 Department of Commercial and Industrial Development for the year ended 30 June 1983 University of for the year ended 31 December 1982 Commissioner of Main Roads for the year ended 30 June 1983. The following papers were laid on the table— Orders in Council under— Harbours Act 1955-1982 Harbours Act 1955-1982 and the Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements Act 1982 Farm Water Supplies Assistance Act 1958-1979 and the Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements Act 1982 River Improvement Trust Act 1940-1983 and the Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements Act 1982 Water Act 1926-1983 and the Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements Act 1982 Supreme Court Act 1921-1979 City of Brisbane Act 1924-1982 and the Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements Act 1982 Electricity Act 1976-1982 and the Statutory Bodies Financial Arrangements Act 1982 Fauna Conservation Act 1974-1979 and the National Parks and Wildlife Act 1975-1982 Land Act 1962-1983 Regulations under— Public Service Act 1922-1978 Mining Act 1968-1983 QuesticMis Upon Notice 20 December 1983 869

Tow-tmck Act 1973 Forestry Act 1959-1982 By-laws under the Harbours Act 1955-1982 Rule under the Coal Mining Act 1925-1981 Notice of a proposal by the Govemor in CouncU to revoke the setting apart and declaration as National Park under the National Parks and WildUfe Act 1975-1982 of aU that piece or part of National Park 30, parish of Chillagoe described as Areas A and B as shown on plan NPW 165 prepared by the Department of Mapping and Surveymg and deposited in the Office <^ the Director of National Parks and Wildlife and containing an area of about 8.79 hectares; a brief explanation of the Proposal Report of the Legal Aid Commission for the year ended 30 June 1983.

QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE Questi

2. Delays in Thles Office Mr Wright asked the Premier and Treasurer— (1) Did the Govemment set up an inquiry into delays in the Titles Office on the recommendation of the then Minister for Justice and Attomey-General and the then Mmister for Environment, Valuation and Administrative Services? (2) Did this inquiry result from complaints regarding long delays in processing titles and reports and that bad surveying work was not referred to the Surveyors Board, so that disciplinary action could be taken? (3) Was Mr Len Lawrence (former chairman of the Public Service Board) appointed to head a three-man inquiry? (4) Did this inquiry gather evidence from aU over AustraUa and was it close to completing its work when the new Govemment was elected? (5) Did the new Minister for Justice and Attomey-General move in Cabinet that the inquiry be suspended? (6) Did the new Mmister for Envhonment, Valuation and Administrative Services take strong exception to this move and did (Cabinet deckle that the inquiry be suspended? 6085g—30 870 20 December 1983 Questions Upon Notice

(7) Why was the inquhy suspended and what was the cost of the inquiry to the date of its suspension? (8) As it has been widely reported that surveyors from aU over the State have been contacting himself and the Minister for Environment, Valuation and Administrative Services, seeking the completion of the inquiry, wiU he now reconsider this decision and allow the inquiry to produce a report so that discussions can be undertaken based on the committee's fmdings? Answer— (1 to 8) The Government set up a committee to inquire into and report on the process of cadastral plan examination in this State, following the receipt of submissions in relation to this matter. The committee consisted of Mr L. G. Lawrence, assisted by Mr P. Dawson and Mr J. S. P. O'Keefe. Public hearings were held by the committee in Brisbane between 15 and 26 August 1983, and interstate visits were made by the committee to South and Westem Australia. The fees and travelUng expenses are not expected to exceed $25,000. A report has been received from the committee of inquiry, and it is now being examined.

3. Railway Houses Mr Neal asked the Minister for Transport— (1) What progress has been made towards the completion of the raUway houses for which wages pause funds were provided? (2) How many of these houses have been completed? Answer— (1 & 2) A total of 122 houses is being provided from these funds. Of them, 33 have been completed, with 26 more to be completed this month and the remainder programmed to be completed by early February 1984. This housing program totalUng $l(hn is the largest ever undertaken by the Railway Department in any one year. Another $6.5m was provided from the wages pause fund for major capital works, including workshops extensions and bridge renewals, which could not be undertaken as part of the normal annual capital works program.

DarUng Downs Investments; Washington Developments Mr Smith as^ed the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General— (1) Is he aware that an organisation known as Investments, in association with Washington Developments of 73 Mary Street, Brisbane, ai^iears to be engaged in fraudulent advertising and other malpractice, in respect to land sales? (2) Is the practice of advertising land in such a way as to mislead potential buyers into reasonably believing the land being offered is situated locally «id desirably close to a particular city whereas, in fact, the land is located elsewhere in the State, lawful? (3) What are the names and addresses of the directors of both Darling Downs Investments and Washington Developm«its? (4) What are the financial backing of both organisations, the shareholdings of directors and the location of offices of both companies throughout the State? (5) Is it an ethical practice for Darlmg Downs Investments to use the standard contract of sale document of the Urban Development Institute of AustraUa, whh section 3 struck out, so as to cause a buyer, who has paid a deposit but who is subsequently unable to arrange for the balance of finance within the usual commercially recognised period, to lose his or her legal claim for the refunding of that deposh? Questions Upon Notice 20 December 1983 871

Answer— (1 & 2) I am informed that Washington Developments is selling its own land. Nehher DarUng Downs Investments Pty Ltd nor Wacal Investments Pty Ltd, which is the registered proprietor of the business name "Washington Developments", is a licensed real estate agent. Accordingly, no action may be taken by the Registrar of Auctioneers ami Agents in relation to any such sale. Any complaint in relation to fraudulent activities by any person or body should be referred to my colleague the Honourable the Minister for Lands, Forestry and PoUce. (3) The annual retum dated 29 October 1982 reveals that the names and addresses of the directors of Darling Downs Investments Pty Ltd are Warren Wayne Washington, 183 Station Road, Sunnybank, Queensland and David Roland Kent Steele, 25 Morley Street, , Queensland. The proprietor of the business name "Washington Developments" is a company by the name of Wacal Investments Pty Ltd. The annual retum dated 29 October 1982 reveals that the names and addresses of the directors of Wacal Investments Pty Ltd are Warren Wayne Washington, 183 Station Road, Sunnybank, Queensland and David Roland Kent Steele, 25 Morley Street, Toowong, Queensland. (4) The balance sheet and profit and loss account of Darling Downs Investments Pty Ltd for the year ended 30 June 1982 as lodged in the Office of the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs reveals that the company at that time had total assets of $59,776 and total liabilities (which consisted solely of an unsecured loan from Wacal Developments Trust) of $59,632, making a net asset position of $144, which represents the total shareholding of the company. Further, the accounts reveal that the company had no income and no expenses for the year and thus no profit or loss. Further, the directors' report indicates that the principal activity of the company was acting as a nominee. In respect of the company called Wacal Investments Pty Ltd, it was declared in the annual return dated 29 October 1982 to be an exempt proprietary company and, as an unquaUfied auditor's statement has been issued by Messrs HaU, (Dhadwick & Co., the accounts were not required under the legislation to be lodged with the annual return. Therefore I am unable to advise on the financial details of this company. The annual return dated 29 October 1982 reveals the shareholding of Darling Downs Investments Pty Ltd to be— Assumpsit No. 1 Pty Ltd as trustee for Wayne Washing­ ton No. 3 Trust, Suhe 11, 4th Floor, T. & G. Building, 141 Queen Street, Brisbane. 92 "A" Class Ordinary Assumpsit No. 1 Pty Ltd as trustee for Steele No. 3 Tmst, Suite 11, 4th Floor, T. & G. Building, 141 Queen Street, Brisbane, 27 "E" Class Ordmary Lionel Deakon Lees & Anne Elizabeth Lees, C/- Lees Hyland & MarshaU, Uth Floor, 141 Queen Street, Brisbane, 25 "C" Class Ordinary

Total 144

The annual return dated 29 October 1982 of Wacal Investments Pty Od reveals the share-holders are as follows— Warren Wayne Washin!gt(m, 183 Station Road, Sunnybank, Queensland. 2 Ordinary David Roland Kent Steele, 25 Morley Street, Toowong, Queens­ land. 1 Ordmary

3 Ordinary

The roistered office of both companies is 73 Mary Street, Brisbane. 872 20 December 1983 Questions Upon Notice

<5) The terms and conditions of any contract are a matter for agreement between the parties. Without seeing the precise terms of the contract, it is impossible to express any view as to the legal position of purchasers. The possibility that purchasers are experiencing difficulty in recovering deposits on the basis that the contract that they signed does not entitle them to recover their deposit in the event of their being unable to obtain finance emphasises that it is pmdent for a person committing himself to a major contractual obligation to seek expert advice before signing the contract. Any person who is in dispute with the vendors should seek legal advice as soon as possible,

5. Motor Vehicle Body Repairs Mr Smith asked the Deputy Premier and Minister Assisting the Treasurer— (1) Is he aware that the SGIO, as the largest single motor vehicle insurer in the State, has effectively limited the rate for motor body repairs (panel beaters) to $15 per hour throughout the State but at the same time readily agreed to pay in excess of $25 an hour for work by motor mechanics? (2) Is he aware that many reputable panel-beating operators will go out of business as a result of underpayment by the major insurance companies led by the SGIO, thereby leaving much of the vehicle repair business to unqualified back yard operators? (3) Is he prepared to instruct the SGIO not to direct work to back yard operators? (4) Are unquaUfied people working with inadequate equipment likely to produce shoddy work, impair vehicle safety and, as a direct result, contribute to a worsening road toU? (5) Has his Govemment received a submission from the Motor Body Repairers Association of Queensland requesting that all panel and paint shops be registered? (6) Is he aware that the registration of such shops by the New South Wales Govemment has resulted in an improved standard of repair work and consequently fewer disputes between owners of repaired vehicles and insurance companies? Answer— (1) The State Government Insurance Office (Queensland) does not set hourly rates. Competition between repairers determines the cost of repairs. Assessors are aware of the competitive quotes that are available in their market areas and provided the quote they are checking is competitive with those other repairers within that area the quote would be acceptable. The rate which each repairer charges per hour is only one aspect for consideration. Another major consideration is the time factor. Hourly rates charged by repairers throughout the State vary. For some areas repairers are quoting higher than others. There is no State-wide rate as - such. If the quote was competitive within that district it would be accepted. On the other hand, motor mechanics are quoting at a higher hourly rate because there is less competition within their industry. These quotes are accepted on the same basis as others. Where mechanical work is carried out in conjunction with panel work, quotes for mechanical work would generally be on the same rate as for panel work, (2) This is a claim made by repairers over many years, which has not been validated. Repairers are asked to submit a quote in an open market situation. (3) The State Govemment Insurance Office (Queensland) does not direct work to back yard operators. One consideration when authorising repairs is that the repairer has the equipment and expertise to complete the repairs to the satisfaction of the insured. (4) See (3). I understand a committee formed out of a meeting with representatives of the motor body repair industry in Queensland to examine whether the industry should be licensed found that up to 4 per cent of accidents could be attributed to vehicle defects. However, whether the defects are due to owner neglect, poor repairs carried out as part of normal maintenance or poor repairs carried out following an accident cannot be estabUshed. (5) The Queensland Motor Industry Association, which has a Motor Body Repahers Division, made a submission to the committee outUned in (4) requesting that all motor body repairers be licensed. This is under consideration. Questions Upon Notice 20 December 1983 873

(6) New South Wales introduced a Ucensing scheme in 1980 covering the motor vehicle repair industry as a whole. However, the first prosecution against unlicensed or back yard operators did not take place until May this year and it is too early to say at this stage whether the conclusions drawn by the honourable member are in fact correct or not.

6. Gold Coast Bus Services Mr Jennings asked the Minister for Transport— With reference to the calling of tenders recently for a number of bus services whhin the general area of the Gold Coast and/or feeding into the coast from other areas of the State— (1) Were satisfactory tenders received? (2) Are any of these services now operating? Answer— (1 & 2) Satisfactory tenders were received and bus services are now operating in a number of new areas. In July, a new Ucence was approved for the Mt Tamborine area. This was awarded to a local operator already providing a limited service under an annual permit. The licence provided a link to the Gold COast and a connection from the Gold Coast to Brisbane. In August, two new licences were granted to local bus operator, Skennar Enter­ prises, to provide direct services between Warwick and the CSold Coast via Boonah, Beaudesert and Nerang and to provide direct services between Mt Tamborine and Brisbane via Beenleigh. From the commencement of the 1984 school year, school services operating into the area west of Nerang will be extended to Canungra to provide direct access for children in that area to Gold Coast educational facilities. I trust this information will be of assistance to the member.

7, Report of Inquiry into TownsviUe City Council Mr McElligott asked the Minister for Local Govemment, Main Roads and Racing— (1) In order to protect the reputations of the council's officers, wiU he undertake to publish the report on the departmental investigation into the affairs of the Townsville City Council conducted immediately prior to the State election? (2) WiU he confirm or deny the newspaper report that the council was found to be "squeaky clean"? Answer— (1 & 2) I am not disposed to publish the report referred to by the honourable member, since it was a departmental report to the Minister. The report revealed that, through error, excess water charges were incorrectly levied by the Townsville City Council on a considerable number of properties in the city of TownsviUe. However, as soon as the error was discovered, the councU took steps to rectify the position and adjustments were made in respect of water charges levied in error. 8. Time of Day Electricity C^harges Mr FhzGerald asked the Minister for Mines and Energy— With reference to the time of day tariff used by SEQEB for farm accounts— Has a new surcharge of $30 per quarter been imposed and, if so, when was this charge imposed and what is the rationale behind it? Answer— Yes. This charge was introduced from 2 July 1983. The tariff is designed for farmers with a usage of at least 1 000 kWh per month. A lesser usage results in a loss to the electricity authority. The new method of charging recovers this loss and • does not disadvantage other users. 874 20 December 1983 Questions Upon Notice

Some of the people who do pay more so that the costs of supplying them are covered may find it advantageous to transfer to another tariff. The electricity authority gives free advice in this regard.

9. Milk Entitlements and Quotas Mr Kruger asked the Minister for Primary Industries— (1) Is he aware of the promise made by the previous Minister, in "Queensland Country Life" of 16 May 1983, that he would make pubUc details of dairy farmers' milk entitlements and milk quotas from July 1978 as well as detaUs of farm sales? (2) Will he urgently release these details, which to date have not been forthcoming, in order to remove any doubt or suspicion that may attach to these matters?

Answer— (1) Yes. I am aware of the statement. (2) Yes. I shall ask the chairman of the Queensland Milk Board to send to the Queensland Dairymen's Organisation where it can be available for scmtiny a copy of the milk entitlements calculated for the period 1977-78 to 1982-83 for individual sup­ pliers in south-east Queensland. The hcmourable member realises of course that the entitlement for each farmer varies depending upon his farm's proporticm of the factory's total production for each year. Quotas are distinct from entitlements and are fixed within associations, and each association would need to be approached regarding that information. I expect that any further details of farm sales not on the Queensland Milk Board lists would need to be obtained from the Titles Office.

10. Soil Erosion Mr Kruger asked the Minister for Primary Industries— With reference to a statement in the Agricultural Bank annual report that an amount of $167,768 was approved for soil conservation for the year, and the further statement that primary producers show little inclination to borrow moneys for the mitigation of soil erosion— (1) Is the Government going to embark on some sort of education program to assist land-holders in overcoming the problem of soU erosion? (2) Is the Government planning to undertake any real program to overcome soil erosion problems in this State? (3) If either of the above matters is proposed or any other relevant proposals are envisaged, what are the details of such proposals?

Answer— (1 to 3) Primary producers show little interest in borrowing money from the Agricultural Bank for soU erosion cMitrol because— (i) Most land-holders prefer not to go into debt to finance a practice which does not provide immediate financial retums; (ii) Land-holders prefer to seek loans from theh own commercial banks as this provides funds quickly, does not upset current mortgage arrangements and incurs little difference in interest rates; and (iii) Sometimes the cost of measures is relatively small but, in the broad areas of Queensland's developing grainlands, total costs are high, liquidity is low, time is important and loans become essential. Virtually all the Agricuhural Bank's loans have gone to . Soil conservation is a combinaticm of management practices and structural run-off control works. The latter are now so weU accepted that my department is unable to meet the demand for design service. Management practices are neither as well known nor as well accepted. A major educational campaign is being mounted in all cropping areas of the State to maintain interest in works and to help land-holders Questi(Mis Upon Notice 20 December 1983 875

to understand the management and cropping options available. A large research program in central and southern Queensland has been established. Pilot farms are being utilised to develop and demonstrate specific management and cropping sequences for specific environments. These now form the bases for a major extension thrust. The further development of this program is curtailed by the Umitations of staff requhed to do the job. My department has been negotiating with the Public Service Board for some addhional staff. The Commonwealth Government has accepted the need for an awareness campaign throughout the nation and is expected to provide some assistance for research and implementation of soU conservation measures.

11. Teacher's Residence, KaimkiUenbun State School Mr Littleproud asked the Minister for Works and Housing— With reference to the poor state of repair of the teacher's residence at the KaimkiUenbun State School, when wiU his department provide a new residence as a r^lacMient? Answer— No decision has been given as to when a replacement residence wiU be provided at KaimkUlenbun State School, but it is understood that the Department of Education is considering the project for listing in its draft program needs for the 1984-85 financial year. 12. C^iinchiUa and Jandowae Hospitals Mr Littleproud asked the Minister for Health— Whh reference to the request submitted by the C^indiUla Hosphal Board to alter the existing ward stmcture at the Chinchilla District Hosphal to provide geriatric wards and to a similar request made by the Dalby Hospital Board for the Jandowae Hospital— (1) Are both these projects recognised as bemg matters of high priority for the areas concerned? (2) If so, when will these projects be commenced? Answer— (1) The establishment of a geriatric ward in the Chinchilla Hospital was incorporated in the remodelling of the male and female wards. It is not considered a matter of high priority. Further supporting information is being sought from the Dalby Hosphals Board conceming the establishment of a geriatric unit at Jandowae Hospital. (2) There is no intention to commence either project in the immediate future.

13. Rent Relief Programs Mr Campbell asked the Minister for Works and Housmg— With reference to the guide-lines for the rent reUef programs, m particular that only families resident in approved relief centres for at least one month are eUgible— (1) How many approved relief centres (with residences) are shuated in (a) Gm Gin, (b) ChUders and (c) Bargara? (2) In towns or districts without approved relief centres, how can families partake in the rent relief programs? (3) Are country areas disadvantaged because of these narrow eligibUity criteria? (4) WUl he amend the eligibility crheria to make the programs more workable in country areas? Answer— (1) (a), (b) and (c)—NU. (2) Because of violence to wife or chUdren, famUies in crisis, to escape the source of violence, generaUy gravitate to larger towns where refuges are estabUshed. They can then be assisted through the rent relief programs to re-establish themselves. (3) No. (4) I do not accept that the programs are not workable m country areas. 876 20 December 1983 Questions Upon Notice

In any area in which is an organisation prepared to operate a crisis centre or refuge, provided the organisation is a l^ally constituted body and can execute a lease, the commission will endeavour to purchase a house for use by the organisaticm. A more suitable method of assistance for the areas mentioned is short-term leasing of private accommodation by an organisation. Under this method, the organisation leases a house and pays rent for one month (the occupant, of course, contributes), after which the commission will pay a lease subsidy of up to $30 per week until the family is housed by commission or privately. The commission now has 70 housing units throughout Queensland in the hands of crisis organisati(ms and is adding to this number by further purchases. I would remind the honourable member for Bundaberg that the honourable members for Isis and Burnett can look after their electorates. I suggest that he endeavour to look after his. 14. Roadworthiness Certificates Mr Cooper asked the Minister for Transport— Now that responsibiUty for motor vehicle inspecti

15. Drinking and Driving Habits of Young People Mr Cooper asked the Minister for Transport— Has any research been undertaken into the drinking and driving habits of young people in an effort to reduce the road toll amongst this vulnerable group? Answer— The Queensland Road Safety Council Research Committee, in conjunction with the Department of Social and Preventive Medicine, is undertaking a major survey and inter­ vention study in an effort to reduce the alcohol-related accidents amongst 17 to 25- year-olds. The study involves surveying over 10(X)0 Grade 10 students to determine their attitudes and knowledge of the alcohol problem, and introducing into the school science curriculum a'special intervention study designed to modify their behaviour pattems. The intervention study wUl take place over a period of 10 years, and the fatality and accident records, as well as drink-driving arrests, traffic breaches and criminal records of the participants, will be monitored in an effort to determine whether such intervention can effectively modify the behaviour of this age group. As I said, the study will take 10 years to complete and represents a major research undertaking by the Queensland Road Safety Council. The total cost of the study is estimated at over $4()0,000, and the Commonwealth Government has been approached by the university to assist in the financing of this research. No other research of a similar undertaking has ever been done in Australia, and the results will be closely examined by relevant traffic authorities in Queensland and other AustraUan States. 16. Fire Services Mr De Lacy asked the Minister for &ivironment. Valuation and Administrative Services— With reference to the Queensland Fhe Service— (1) What was the number of home and building approvals granted in Cairns city and Mulgrave shire districts for (a) 1979-1980, (b) 1980-1981, (o) 1981-1982, (d) 1982-1983 and (e) 1983-1984? Questions Upon Notice 20 December 1983 877

(2) What was the number of professional fire-fighters allocated to the Cairns city and Mulgrave shire districts for those periods in (1) above? (3) What was the number of professional fire-fighters aUocated throughout the State for those periods in (1) above and to which fire brigade boards were they allocated? (4) What was the cost of fire brigade board meetings throughout the State for those periods in (1) above?

Answer— I note that on 16 December the honourable member for Cairns sought to place this notice of question also for 16 December. The honourable member should take the trouble to familiarise himself with parliamentary procedure. If he did, he would then be aware that notices of questions are set down for the next day of Parliament, not the same sitting day. As we have not reached the end of the 1983-84 financial year, I feel sure that the honourable member will excuse me for not including this year in the information which follows. (1) The information provided by the Cairns City Council and the Mulgrave Shire Council on home and building approvals is as follows— 1979-80 Caims 603 Mulgrave 868 1980-81 Caims 730 Mulgrave 994 1981-82 Caims 748 Mulgrave 1055 1982-83 Cairns 635 Mulgrave 1020. (2) The State Fire Services Council indicates that the Caims Fire Brigade Board was allocated additional professional fire-fighters as follows— 1980-81 2 1982-83 2. (3) The State Fire Services Council indicates that professional fire-fighters were aUocated to fire brigade boards as follows— 1979-80 1980^81 Metropolitan 2 Metropolitan , , . 12 South Coast . . 11 South Coast . 12 Caboolture 1 Townsville 2 Maroochy 1 Cairns 2 Caloundra 2 Gladstone 1 Proserpine 1 Ipswich • • • 8 Bundaberg 1 Maroochy • • > • 6 — Noosa 1 State Total .. 19 —

—• State Total 44

1981-82 1982-83 Metropolitan .. 12 Metropolitan 21 South Coast .. 12 South Coast 7 Townsville 2 Cairns 2 Caboohure 2 Townsville 1 Gladstone 2 Caloundra 1 Ipswich 1 Hervey Bay . 1 Mackay 1 Mackay 4 Maroochy 2 Mount Isa 3 Noosa 6 Proserpine • 1 Pine Rivers 1 State Total . 41 State Total 41

The allocation of full-time fire-fighters for 1983-84 has not yet been finalised. 878 20 December 1983 Questions Upon Notice

(4) The information provided by the State Fire Services CouncU indicates that the cost of fire brigade board meetings throughout the State were— 1979-80 $273,063.55 1980-81 $243,494.32 1981-82 $281,083.63 1982-83 $319,868.64.

17. Timber Mill, Yarrabah Aboriginal Comnwnity Mr De Lacy asked the Minister for Northem Development and Aboriginal and Island Affairs— With reference to the timber mill at the Yarrabah Aboriginal Ccunmunity— (1) How much timber is milled? (2) Where is the timber from Yarrabah used and specifically what communities benefit from it? (3) What revenue is derived from the timber mill? (4) What percentage of such revenue is made available to the Yarrabah people?

Answer— (1) 574.07 cubic metres during the current calendar year. (2) At various departmental installations throughout north (^eensland, and specificaUy Yarrabah, Edward River, Kowanyama, Lockhart River and islands throughout the Torres Strah. (3) NU. (4) See (3). If it is suggested by the honourable member that profits are being repatriated to the department for the benefit of Aborigines and Islanders throughout the State of Queensland, I would point out to him that that is the policy at present. It accords with the socialist principles of the member for C^ims. Changes wUl be made to the policy so that the profits made by the hard-working people in a particular area are returned to that area. That is something that does not accord with the socialist principles of the member for Cairns.

18. Private Bus Services Mr Newton asked the Minister for Transport— What financial assistance is the State Government providing to privately operated bus services in Queensland in 1983-84?

Answer— Through the Department of Transport the State Government provides three types of financial assistance to the private bus industry in Queensland. These types of financial assistance, which are avaUable under the provisions of the Urban Passenger Service Proprietors Assistance Act, are— (i) A subsidy on gross fare revenue. Subsidy is paid at a rate, up to a maximum of 40 per cent, on revenue collected from fares paid by passengers on urban route services; (U) An interest subsidy, paid at a rate of 6 per cent for a term of up to 10 years, on moneys borrowed for the purchase of buses less than five years old; and (iii) A local pensioner subsidy to reimburse operators for the cost of providing concessional fares for eligible pensi

19, Petrie-Caboolture Rail Service Mr Newton asked the Minister for Transport— With reference to Petrie-CabooUure rail services— (1) What progress has been made towards the extension of electrified suburban tram services beyond Petrie to Caboohure? (2) When will these services be in operation? (3) In the meantime, how soon will high-level platforms be completed at the stations between Petrie and Caboolture to assist passengers in detraining and entraining?

Answer— (1 to 3) Planning for electrification works between Caboolture and Petrie is well advanced, with attention to be given initially to track deviations and cross-overs for which earthworks are in progress, with trackwork to commence early in 1984. The programming of work is governed by funding arrangements, with the present expectation of work being completed in 1986. Work has been proceeding towards the upgrading of the platforms at Burpengary, Dakabin, Morayfield and Narangba. The former three platforms are completed except for finishing work on the surfaces and lighting, while the platform at Narangba will be completed by February 1984. Completion of these works will provide vastly improved conditions for passengers travelUng between these stations and the city. In addition, a foot-bridge has been provided at Dakabin to facilitate the safe movement of passengers across the line and a commencement made on a similar stmcture at Narangba. Construction of foot-bridges at Burpengary and Morayfield will follow.

20. Conrad and Gargett Pty Ltd Mr Veivers asked the Minister for Health— (1) Was Conrad and Gargett Pty Ltd the only firm of architects recommended as consultants in all tenders for the new work on five hospitals throughout the State? (2) Must the five construction companies which have been given tendering rights (and $25,(XX) towards their costs) include Conrad and Gargett Pty Ltd so that their tenders conform to the terms and conditions as set down by the Government? (3) If so, what is the reason? (4) Where does that place the often espoused free enterprise phUosophy of this Govemment?

Answer— (1) No. (2) No. (3) Not applicable. (4) As a total of five architectural firms are participating, the free enterpriise philosophy is being well espoused.

21. Licensing Fees Mrs Harvey asked the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General— (1) Are any hotel licensing fees outstanding? (2) If there are any fees outstanding, are any of the premises involved SGIO properties? (3) Is he happy with the way in which licence fees are being handled under the Act? (4) Is the Licensing Commission concerned with who owns premises when it deals whh the matter of licensing fees? 880 20 December 1983 Questions Upon Notice

Answer— (1) As at 13 December 1983, the only amount outstanding was an additional fee for late payment of fees in respect of one tavern. (2) No licensing fees are outstanding. (3) I am satisfied that the way in which licence fees are being handled is quite satisfactory. (4) When dealing with Ucensing fees, the Licensing Commission is not influenced by the ownership of premises. The person responsible for payment of fees is in all cases the person registered as Ucensee.

22. Govemment Initiatives for Road Tran^wrt Mr Price asked the Minister for Transport— (1) As the Government has promised itiitiatives that will benefit the road transport industry and public aUke, including the removal of certain goods from the Ust of commodities reserved for rail haulage, will he nominate which goods will be removed? (2) Does he envisage any retrenchments in the Queensland Railway Department because of the proposed Government initiatives?

Answer— (1) The requirement to obtain permits for the road transport of goods will be removed as from 1 January 1984 in the case of peanuts, navy beans, tobacco leaf, prefabricated assembled timber roof tmsses and sawn timber and sugar-cane. This will be followed by the discontinuance of restrictions on log timber, salt and new motor vehicles as from 1 January 1985, The future arrangements regarding packaged petroleum products are under consideration. With respect to new motor vehicles, a prototype six-pack double-deck car-carrying wagon has proved highly successful. It is currently operating on the coastal line, A contract is to be let shortly for an additional 12 wagons, which are expected to make the RaUway Department competitive with road in carrying motor vehicles over long distances. (2) The Government has stated unequivocally on a number of occasions that there will be no retrenchment of railway staff as a result of these initiatives.

23. Transcripts, Mt Isa Magistrates Court Mr Price asked the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General— With reference to the electronic recording equipment installed at the Mt Isa Magistrates Court over 12 months ago— (1) Is he aware (a) that no provision was made for the transcribing of depositions at Mt Isa, (b) that delays in awaiting transcripts of evidence often outstrip appeal hearing dates and (c) that this leaves an unjustifiable imbalance to the action being heard? (2) When will his department supply one transcribing machine and one typist to Mt Isa to rectify the imbalance? (3) Will it take the 20 years it took to commence the installation of electronic recording equipment to fulfil this request?

Answer— (1) (a) Yes, (b) 80 per cent of cases are transcribed within one week at the centralised transcribing service located in Townsville. Where evidence is lengthy, transcription may take longer and in any such case in which appeal action is being taken advice to the clerk of the court will result in preparation of the transcript as a matter of urgency. Questions Upon Notice 20 December 1983 881

(c) While difficulty may be caused in some cases in which an appeal is to be lodged, a request to the clerk of the court as soon as possible after the conclusion of the matter wUl enable action to be taken to alleviate delay. (2 & 3) A centralised transcribing service has been located in Townsville to service centres north of Rockhampton. Such centralisation provides the most efficient service at the present time. The position is continually reveiwed, and changes will be made when justified. I am taking a personal interest in the matters. The resources of my department are managed so as to effectively utilise avaUable resources. The needs of the community in all areas of the State must be taken into account when allocating these resources.

24. Suttons Foundry Pty Ltd, Ipswich Mr Innes asked the Minister for Industry, Small Business and Technology— With reference to my previous question regarding Suttons Foundry, which he answered on 15 December and, in particular, to part (4) of that answer, in which he indicated that the department was aware of the capability and capacity of the foundry industry— (1) Are Sutt(Mis/Kemp Foundries dhect competitors of Northem Iron and Brass Foundry of InnisfaU. of Mallet's Foundry of Maroochydore and of Bundaberg Metal Industries which have, as a major part of their operaticHi, the production of water- supply valves and pipe fittings? (2) Did completely unrealistic prices tendered by Suttons lead to its financial problems? (3) Is Wormalds the owner or previous owner of Kemps Foundry of Currumbin, one of Australia's major producers of such valves and fittings at its Ballarat foundry in Victoria? (4) As the major use of these products is in local government or Government contracts, will the Government be favouring its own investment by using its influence in relation to such contracts? A nswer— (1) Yes. (2) The problems confronting Suttons Foundry Pty Ltd flowed from the purchase of Kemps in the expectation of a loan which did not eventuate. (3) Yes. (4) No. The Government has board representation commensurate with its interest in the company. The day-to-day administration, tendering and other activities are the responsibility of management of Suttons and decisions will be based on purely com­ mercial grounds, Suttons Foundry Pty Ltd will receive, in Govemment purchases, no special consideration not available to other foundries.

25. Gates for Wivenhoe Mr Innes asked the Premier and Treasurer— With reference to the article and photograph in the "Telegraph" of 15 December containing the statement that "The $150 miUion , above, has entered its final phase of constmction with only the addition of the five huge floodgates needed before it becomes operational."— (1) Is this statement correct? (2) With further reference to the other statement in the article concerning the radial spillway gates "expected to arrive from Korea next year" (a) when do the floodgates arrive in Australia and when will they be fitted, (b) when do the radial spillway gates arrive in Australia and when will they be fitted, (c) are both sets of gates necessary for flood mitigation? A nswer— (1 & 2) The statement that appeared in the edition of the Brisbane "Telegraph" of 15 December 1983 in relation to the final phase of construction of the Wivenhoe Dam is substantially correct. The five radial spillway gates and the floodgates referred 882 20 December 1983 Questions Upon Notice

to by the honourable member are one and the same. Delivery of the first gate is expected during Febmary 1984, InstaUation of the fifth and final gate is expected to be completed towards the end of 1984,

26, National Road Freight Industry Mrs Chapman asked the Minister for Transport— (1) Is he aware that the Federal Govemment is currently conducting an inquiry into the national road freight industry? (2) Is the Government participating in that inquiry and, if so, what is the basis of its submission?

Answer— (1 & 2) The Government is aware of the present inquiry and indeed has welcomed the opportunity to comment on an industry which is a vital part of this State's development, A detailed submission of just under 90 pages has been prepared after consuhation with all Government departments. The Queensland submission deals with the abiUty of the industry to meet the needs of transport users economicaUy, efficiently and effectively, the impact for desirability of regulati(m on the industry, vehicle safety and truck accidents, financing arrangements and the effects of competiti(m from rail. Queensland was pleased to make a submission, but it should be stated that the view was forcibly put that the administrative controls and operational regulations upon the industry should be solely the prerogative of the State and not the Commonwealth.

27. Tow-tmck Operators Mrs Cliapman asked the Minister for Transport— (1) Is he aware that some tow-truck operators are causing further damage to vehicles by incorrectly towing them? (2) Will something be done to alleviate this problem and ensure that tow-truck operators maintain a higher degree of professional operation?

Answer— (1 & 2) I am aware that some damage has been caused to some vehicles by incorrect winching and towing methods. In the past, tow-truck operators were given a licence without any extra require­ ments other than holding a C-class licence. However, changes have now been introduced by the Commissioner for Transport, who will impose special licensing requirements for all future tow-truck operators. These requirements will include practical and theoretical tests on correct procedures as well as thorough knowledge of the use of recovery equipment. Recently the Executive COuncil approved changes to the regulations under the Tow-truck Act which have provided for the use of new equipment and which wiU alleviate many of the problems caused by incorrect towing. This new equipment includes the use of tilt-tray vehicles, special dolly wheels to be inserted under cars, and also the use of rigid bodied tow-trucks fitted with special winchmg equipment. I am confident that these new changes wUl bring about new standards in the industry, that will be closely monitored by the department to ensure that tow-tmck operators provide a professional and efficient service to the public,

{8. Accidents at Swanbank Power Station Mr Hamill asked the Minister for Mines and Energy— With reference to reports in "The Queensland Times" on 14 and 15 December— (1) Was there an equipment failure involving the explosion of a boiler at the Swanbank Power Station on 13 December? (2) What was the full extent of the damage? Questions Upon Notice 20 December 1983 883

(3) Did any employees at the Swanbank Power Station sustain personal injuries as a result of the accident? (4) What were the nature and extent of any such personal injuries sustained by these employees? (5) Have there been similar accidents at the Swanbank Power Staticm? (6) If so, (a) when did they occur, (b) what was the extent of damage to the plant and (c) what was the extent of personal injuries sustained by Swanbank employees?

Answer— (1) Yes, a localised explosion occurred in the north-eastern corner of boiler No, 2, (2) Assesunent of the damage has not been completed. (3) Yes. (4) One employee received a superficial bum to the hand and another a strained ankle. (5) Yes. (6) (a) No, 1 boiler—28 April 1967; No. 2 boiler—30 November 1%6; No. 3 boiler—9 August 1969; No. 5 boiler—1 June 1969, (b) In the case of boiler No, 5, the explosion was more severe, necessitating extensive rebuilding of fumace tubes and boiler walls. (c) There is no record of any injuries being sustained in these incidents.

29, New High School, Raceview Mr Hamill asked the Minister for Works and Housing— With reference to National Party campaign promises to ease overcrowding at existing Ipswich high schools by the construction of a new State high school at Raceview— (1) When will construction commence? (2) When wUl the new high school be ready to receive students?

Answer— (1 & 2) There has been no firm undertaking that a new high school at Raceview would be erected forthwith. Priorities are established to meet requirements throughout the State and funds available have been directed to new facilities at centres indicated in the Budget Speech.

30. Administration of Queensland Prisons Sir WiUiam Knox asked the Premier and Treasurer— (1) Has his attention been drawn to statements made by the Federal Attomey- General (Senator Evans) that he is considering investigating conditions in Queensland gaols? (2) What is the constitutional position regarding the administration and control of Australia's gaols? (3) Are there any Commonwealth laws or regulations which would allow Federal authorities to override or bypass State jurisdiction? (4) What action can the take to thwart Senator Evans's attempts to interfere in State administration?

Answer— (1) I am aware that the Federal Attorney-General (Senator Evans) has been reported as making comments on conditions in Queensland gaols, as they affect Federal prisoners, since the recent disturbance at Brisbane Prison, 884 20 December 1983 Questions Upon Notice

(2) There is no specific power under which the Commonwealth can control the administration of State prisons. The States receive Commonwealth prisoners pursuant to section 120 of the Commonwealth Constitution, not that Queensland wants to receive any Commonwealth prisoners. (3) At present, there is no Commonwealth legislation under which the Common­ wealth can intervene in the administration of State prisons. This was conceded by Senator Evans hi answer to a question in the Senate on 15 December 1983. (4) If the Commonwealth does attempt at some future time, under the external affairs power or otherwise, to interfere with State administration of prisons, any such intmsi(m will have a negative result.

31. Establishment of Kibbutz-style Schemes Sir WUliam Knox asked the Minister for Employment and Industrial Affahs— (1) Is there a proposal by the Federal Govemment to establish kibbutz-style Govemment funded schemes to soak up imemployed people? (2) Have schemes of this type been successful in other countries? (3) Has the Federal Govemment had any exploratory conversations with State authorities with a view to establishing kibbutzes in Australia and what has been the result of those discussions? (4) What is the Queensland Government's attitude to the establishment of kibbutz-style groups as a solution to unemployment problems? Answer— (1 to 4) By "kibbutz-style" I assume that the honourable member means communal —especially farming—settlements as made famous in Israel. Those settlements were established in a very specific location with a number of objects, including military defence. It is obvious that such a concept cannot be transplanted from one country to another without grave doubts about the success of the operation. With its terrible record with HMS "Invincible", its apathy towards the armed forces, and the abolition of school cadet units, can anybody imagine the Federal Government including in similar communes such things as defence training? There have not been any discussions between my Federal counterpart and me on this, although comments by him have been reported in the media. As a solution to unemployment, the concept leaves much to be desired. No doubt there are many in the community who would prefer such a life-style. However it should not be financedfro m the public purse. Governments should stUl be pursuing attainment of full employment, and an approach such as this is a rejection of that responsibiUty. The idea is completely foreign to Australia and reeks of danger. I believe that such a scheme could well break down the will to work and succeed, and would not be in the interests of young AustraUan men and women. Such communes are almost an alternative prison life-style. Mr Hawke seems hell bent on introducing such communes, and he wishes them to be funded from the pubUc purse. I understand that the Federal Ciovemment's economic planners are against any proposal to establish this type of development in Australia, yet Mr Hawke still persists. Is h any wonder that the Federal Budget deficit is starting to blow out? The Federal Govemment should be directing its efforts in the area of building a more stable and internationally reputable AustraUa. That would create more employment opportunities. The Federal Govemment should also look at further subsidies for the employers of apprentices so that Australia has qualified tradesmen and tradeswomen when times are better.

32. Heavy Vehicle Accidents Mr Lingard asked the Minister for Transport— What percentage of heavy vehicle and truck accidents are attributable to mechanical defects or inadequate maintenance? QuestiMis Upon Notice 20 December 1983 885

Answer— Research recently commenced by the research committee of the Queensland Road Safety CouncU has indicated that up to 8 per cent of aU serious semi-trailer accidents could be due to mechanical defects. More specifically, up to 64 per cent of out-of- control single-vehicle semi-trailer accidents were due to mechanical defects. The most common defects were: loose trailers (23 per cent); faulty or defective brakes (23 per cent); faulty tyres (17 per cent); steering problems (7 per cent), and poor lighting (6 per cent). No doubt these problems could have been eliminated if proper mainten­ ance had been carried out by the owners. As a result of these findings, I have stepped up the campaign by Transport Depart­ ment officers to detect unroadworthy heavy vehicles and trucks. Out of 25 heavy vehicles stopped at a recent snap inspection at the Burpengary weighbridge, 11 were booked for mechanical defects. The recent transfer of responsibility for the Motor Vehicle Safety Act to the Department of Transport now allows the transport inspectors to pay greater attention to the mechanical defects of heavy vehicles.

33, AUeged Union Persecution of Skilled Engineering (Contract Labour) Pty Ltd Mr Miller asked the Premier and Treasurer— With reference to an extraordinary situation relative to the action of the Amalgamated Metals, Foundry and Shipwrights Union against Skilled Engineering (Contract Labour) Pty Ltd and its employees and to page 4 of the "Daily Sun" of the 15 December under the heading "Union Threats: Claim by MP" wherein it is stated that this union's members at the James Hardie factory in Brisbane banned two fitters employed by Skilled Engineering (COntract Labour) Pty Ltd until they left the firm— Will he take immediate action to have this matter thoroughly investigated and take immediate action to remedy this alleged persecution of this company and its employees?

Answer— Let me say at the outset that this is a classic example of the misuse of union power to force a company to bow to union demands. It will be necessary for my Government to play a more positive role to protect ordinary citizens and workers from this form of union intimidation. The resolution of this problem lies in the Federal jurisdiction. Skilled Engneering (Contract Labour) Pty Ltd is a member of the Metal Trades Industry Association and therefore a resixmdent to the Federal Metal Industry Award, Any dispute situation between the company and the union under that award would not fall within the ambit of the State Industrial ConcUiation and Arbitration Act. The company has previously been banned by major contractors from working on various sites, which resulted in the matter being brought before the Federal Industrial Commission in Brisbane on 21 April 1983. The Commissioner referred the matter back to the company and the AMFSU for further consultation and whUe no resolution was reached the matter was not referred back to the Federal commission. A solution of the matter can be sought by the company through the Federal Industrial Commission, or an action under the Trade Practices Act for a secondary boycott should be explored on the advice of the company's legal advisers,

34, Central Station/Sheraton Hotel Complex Mr BaUey asked the Minister for Transport— Whh reference to the nearly completed COntral Station/Sheraton Hotel complex and new station platforms— WiU the old station building, to which it is understood some refurbishing is intended, be upgraded to a corresponding degree to fit in with the surrounding buiiding.s and, if so, when will this work be completed? 886 20 December 1983 Questions Upon Notice

A nswer— The historic front appearance of Central Station building wiU be retained and the whole of the exterior brickwork and masonry will be refurbished to provide an appearance in keeping with the surrounding buildings and the Anzac Park developlnent. The interior of the building will be totally remodelled to provide modem office accommodation. The popular Central Station bar known as "Fihelly's Arms" will also be completely renovated. The exterior work on the old station building is programmed for completion in May 1984, and the interior by July.

35. Properties Resumed for Northem Freeway Mr Davis asked the Minister for Local Govemment, Main Roads and Racing— (1) How many flats and houses were acquired by the Main Roads Department as a result of the proposed Northem Freeway? (2) How many of these houses have been disposed of in the past 12 months and by what means? (3) Have a number of residents recently been told to find alternative accommodation? (4) If so, how many notices have been issued? (5) What means are to be used by the department to dispose of these houses? Answer— (1) The department acquired 205 houses and 14 blocks of flats for the Northern Freeway proposal (CampbeU Street, Bowen Hills to Gympie Road, Kedron). (2) In addition to seven dwellings sold to their former owners and one dwelling sold to the occupying tenant prior to December 1982, the following transactions have taken place in the last 12 months: one dwelUng is under contract to the occupying tenant and seven dwellings are under contract as a result of the calUng of public tenders. (3) No. (4) Not appUcable. (5) All possible previous owners having been contacted and public authority interest having been ascertained, dwellings are progressively being offered to occupying tenants or for pubUc tender when vacant,

36. Tests for Drivers' Licences Mr Shaw asked the Minister for Transport— (1) In 1982-83, what was the number of male and female applicants tested for drivers' licences at each of the Brisbane testing c^itres? (2) How many males and how many females failed at their first attempt? (3) If figures are not avaUable for this period, but are available for a similar time, for example, the calendar year, wiU he please supply that information? (4) If the figures cannot be obtained for Tuesday, 20 December, will he please indicate if and when they wiU be provided? Answer— (1 to 4) Records held by the Department of Transport do not differentiate between a first test and any subsequent tests. In addition, no summary of the fail- rate differences between male and female applicants is obtainable. Accordingly, I am not able to provide the honourable member with the specific information that he requires. For the information of the honourable member, I wish to advise that for the 12-month period from September 1982 to August 1983, 11718 tests were conducted at the Rosalie Testing Centre, of which 8 311 resulted in passes and 3 407 in faUures, At the ZUlmere Testing Centre for the same period, 12 304 tests were conducted, resulting in 8 606 passes and 3 698 failures. Questions Upon Notice 20 December 1983 887

I wonder how many OppositicHi members would pass if they had to be retested on that basis. Opposition Members interjected. Mr SPEAKER: Order! Mr LANE: Mr Speaker, I thought question-time was getting a bit dull.

Answer (contd)— At the COorparoo Testing Centre, 9 632 tests were cwiducted, resulting in 5 374 passes and 4 258 failures. No doubt most of them were Labor people,

37. Traffic Lights, Wadley Street-Kessels Road Intersection Mr Kaus asked the Minister for Local Government, Main Roads and Racing— When will traffic lights be installed at the intersection of Wadley Street and Kessels Road, Mt Gravatt, the scene of several accidents in recent weeks?

Answer— As the honourable member will be aware, the installation of these signals is associated with the redevelopment of the Garden City Market site. The design of the signals is being undertaken by the Brisbane City COuncil and is reported as being weU advanced. It is anticipated that the installation of the signals, which wiU be incorporated in the local system operated by the councU, will be completed by the end of the current financial year.

38. School-crossing Supervisors Mr Kaus asked the Minister for Transport— With reference to statements made prior to the last election about the introduction of school crossing supervisors or "loUipop" wardens— What progress has been made to date to introduce these wardens and will they be available for the beginning of the school year in 1984?

Answer— Already some 75 schools have made representations to the Department of Transport for school-crossing supervisors. The principals of these schools have now been contacted and official application forms have been sent out for completion by the principals—the first two to New Farm and Ascot, In the first instance, it will be up to the school parents and citizens association, in co-operation with the principal, to nominate a suitable person to be trained as a crossing supervisor. Training of the supervisors will be undertaken by the Queensland Road Safety Council, which will also supervise each operation on a regular basis. At this stage, it is planned that school-crossing supervisors will be Umited to primary schools which do not have pedestrian-activated traffic Ughts, The crossing supervisors will work a maximum of one hour in the moming and one hour in the afternoon, at the direction of the principal. They wiU be paid fortnightly at a rate of $6 per hour. The supervisors wiU be supplied with highly visible clothing and equipment, which will include a white coat, a retroflective sash, belt and hatband and also a "Stop" banner and whistle. Planning is well under way for the school-crossing supervisors to be operational on the first day of the 1984 school year.

39. Rocky Creek Flood COntrol Mr ElUott asked the Minister for Primary Industries— With reference to the deputation to him regarding the proposed Rocky Creek flood control report— What progress has been made in respect of a joint meeting between himself, the Minister for Water Resources and their departmental officers? 888 20 December 1983 Questions Upon Notice

A nswer— Following a recent deputation from the Pittsworth-Jondaryan Plains Soil Con­ servation Group, I have written to the Honourable the Minister for Water Resources and Maritime Services seeking initial discussions between our organisations at senior officer level. These discussions are required to review the ways in which this complex flood-prevention, drainage and soil-conservation project can best be managed and financed, Mr Goleby has advised me that the Commissioner of Water Resources wrote to the chairman of the Pittsworth-Jondaryan Plains Soil Conservation Group on 28 November seeking a range of suitable times for a meeting between the group, the Dhector-General of my department and himself. Once a reply is received I am sure that the commissioner wiU arrange for early discussions.

40. Western Air Services Mr Elliott asked the Minister for Transport— What level of assistance is the State Government to provide in 1983-84 to western air services in Queensland?

Answer— This financial year, that is 1983-84, the State Government will provide $969,300 to assist Western air services. Of this amount, $836,178 wiU be paid to TAA to assist it in operating its F27 services to westem areas. As weU, $125,(XX) will be given to Air Queensland for its twice-weekly Metro services from Brisbane to Longreach via Emerald, Alpha and Barcaldine. Also, $8,152 will be given to Drennan Aviation for its channel country service. Let me assure honourable members that this Government is committed to ensuring that adequate air services are available to people in Western and rural Queensland.

41. Pornographic Video Tapes Mr Simpson asked the Minister for Tourism, National Parks, Sport and The Arts— (1) Is he aware that pornographic video tapes are being offered for sale or resale in Queensland? (2) Will the Government investigate the matter with a view to stopping the sale and advertising of pornographic video tapes?

A nswer— (1 & 2) The problem of pomographic video tapes is one which continues to receive close consideration by Commonwealth and State Ministers responsible for censorship controls. At a meeting of those Ministers last July, certain broad principles were agreed to on censorship control of home-use video tapes. The first steps to be taken in terms of implementing these proposals refer specifically to changes to Commonwealth Government legislation, and current indications are that such amendments might be in place by early 1984. Each State will have to legislate in its own right to impose appropriate point of sale restrictions. State Government policy in this particular area is yet to be determined, but I do want to state at this juncture that I am somewhat concerned at the unfair competition that any public showing of video tapes presents to the motion picture exhibiting industry. My advisers are closely examining all aspects of the matter and I would want to be able to look at the shuation with a full appreciation of the rights of all concerned before moving further. The honourable member may be aware that, at the present time, legislative control of the advertising and sale of pornographic video tapes is covered by the Vagrants, Gaming, and Other Offences Act 1931-1978, which is administered by my colleague the Minister for Lands, Forestry and Police, Questions Upon Notice 20 December 1983 889

42. Electricity Generating Capacity and Demand, 1984-94 Mr Vaughan asked the Minister for Mines and Energy— For the years 1984 to 1994 inclusive— (1) What is the planned all-year generatmg capability of the State's power stations? (2) What is the planned winter peak generating capabUity of the State's power stations? (3) What is the forecast of annual maximum demand?

Answer- (D- Year Megawatts 1984 4200 1985 4800 1986 5 150 1987 5 500 1988 5 850 1989 6200 1990 6 550 1991 6900 1992 7 070 1993 7 300 1994 7530 (2)- Year Megawatts 1984 4 390 1985 5 010 1986 5 380 1987 5 750 1988 6 120 1989 6490 1990 6 860 1991 7 230 1992 7400 1993 7 640 1994 7 880

(3)- Year Megawatts 1984 3 220 1985 3 340 1986 3 510 1987 3 760 1988 4080 1989 4460 1990 4730 1991 5 030 1992 5 240 1993 5 480 1994 5 750 I thank the honourable member for asking this question because it does give me the opportunity of drawing attentifm to the clear lead and advantages we have in this State hi power generation, compared whh southern States. Here in Queensland we have planned for the future, by providing major power stations at Gladstone, Tarong, Callide and Stanwell. This will enable industry and domestic consumers to have ample electricity supply during the next decade and, indeed, into the twenty-first century. It will also give the encouragement for major industries to come here rather than to the power-lacking States of New South Wales and Victoria. 890 20 December 1983 Questions Upon Notice

43. Breaches of Qean Waters Act Mr Vaughan asked the Minister for Local Government, Main Roads and Racing— With reference to his answer to the question I asked cm 13 December regarding the Clean Waters Act 1971 (as amended) and concerning the investigation of the alleged dumping of thousands of litres of toxic Uquid caustic waste in the Pinkenba and Nudgee areas, and since he advises that, despite late night and early morning surveiUance by a water quality inspector, dumping of toxic wastes was not actually observed— (1) How many water quality inspectors were involved in the surveiUance? (2) Did the toxic liquid waste come from the Alcan aluminium plant at Eagle Farm? (3) Was the waste actually removed from the Alcan plant late at night under cover of darkness? (4) Was an unmarked, unregistered tanker involved and was that tanker escorted by two other vehicles, one in front and one in the rear, and another vehicle which traveUed some distance behind them, in order to spot any attempted surveUlance by water quaUty inspectors? (5) Were water quality inspectors actually chased by the people transporting this waste and did the inspectors fear for their safety? (6) Were the poUce ever requested to assist in surveillance and/or apprehension concerning the dumping of this waste? (7) If not, what is the reason? (8) Have water quaUty inspectors in fact been questioned by the police when carrying out surveillance? (9) If so, what were the reasons for such action by the police? (10) As he advises that the practice adopted where there is an alleged breach of the Clean Waters Act is to take the matter up with the company involved, if the answer to (2) is "Yes", has the matter been taken up with Alcan, and, if so, what was the outcome? (11) If the answers to (2), (3), (4), (5) and (6) are "Yes", why is h not possible to obtain evidence and prosecute in the usual manner the people involved in this alleged dumping of toxic waste? (12) Was the identity of the owner of the tanker involved ascertained and, if so, who was the owner of the tanker? (13) Has the owner of the tanker been interviewed and, if not, what is the reason? (14) In view of the circumstances surrounding the dumping of this toxic liquid caustic waste in my electorate, does he now agree that there is a need to amend the provisions of the Clean Waters Act to enable breaches of the Act such as this to be dealt with more effectively? (15) If not, what is the reason?

Answer— (1 to 15) As mentioned in my recent answer to a question asked by the honourable member, the Department of Local Government recently investigated the dumping of liquid wastes in the Pinkenba and Nudgee areas. These investigations show that certain liquid wastes were recently dumped on land owned by the Brisbane City Council at Nudgee. I am advised, however, that since the wastes in question were not dumped into a watercourse and will not be likely to cause water pollution, no breach of the Clean Waters Act has occurred. Matters relating to the dumping of the wastes at Nudgee were brought to the notice of the department by the council and an investigation was carried out by a departmental water quality inspector and two Brisbane City Council inspectors. This investigation was carried out very early in the moming and, durmg the course of the investigation, the inspectors were questioned by police officers as to their activities. I understand that, during the course of this investigation, an alleged breach of the Traffic Act was com­ mitted by another vehicle in relation to a Brisbane Qty Council vehicle being operated by the inspectors, and this matter has been referred to the PoUce Department, Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 891

Since there has been no breach of the Clean Waters Act in relation to the dumping, the matter would appear to be one for consideration by the councU, and the question of amendment oi the Act does not arise.

PRIVILEGE Days Allotted to Estimates Mr BURNS (Lytton) (11.59 a.m.): I rise on a matter of privUege. Mr !^ak^, I draw your attention to the Sessional Orders. Today is a double day, and two days have been allotted to the debate on the Estimates of two departments. The first allotted day is from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m., which includes an hour for question-time and one hour and 15 minutes fcM* lunch. That leaves only a very short time to debate the first set of Estimates. The second allotted day is from 4 p.m, until 10 p.m., which is six hours. From that, one hour 15 minutes is the time allowed for the dinner recess. That means the time allotted to the discussion of one set of Estimates is much greater than the time allotted to the discussion of the other. Because a limited number of Estimates are being debated, it is unfair that the S^s^(Mial Orders should be biased m that way. I ask that, in future, you, Mr Speaker, ensure that equal time is aUotted for the debate on each set of Estimates. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The form and content of the motion concerning double days for the Estimates debate is the same as that agreed to by the House over many years. Only the total number of allotted days is different to suit the particular circum­ stances of the year in question. The motion should be read in conjunction with Standing Order 307 in arriving at the time of completion of the debate on the last Estimates today. I have taken note of the matter raised by the honourable member for Lytton and will look at it carefully with a view to considering it in the future. At 12 noon. In accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 307, the House went into Committee of Supply.

SUPPLY Resumption of Committee—Estimates—Second and Third Allotted Days Estimates-in-Chief, 1983-84 Water Resources and Maritime Services Queensland Water Resources Commission Hon. J. P. GOLEBY (Redlands—Minister for Water Resources and Maritime Services) (12,1 p,m,): I move— "That $19,323,620 be granted for 'Queensland Water Resources Commission'," I rise to present the Estimates of the Queensland Water Resources Commission and the Department of Harbours and Marine with a sense of satisfaction and achievement on past record, and enthusiasm for 1983-84 and the future. It is just 12 months since I assumed ministerial responsibility for these two departments. In that period, together with my departmental heads, I have travelled extensively throughout the State studying deparmental activities and obtaining an appreciation of the needs and aspirations of the various areas. In this debate I will show the further progress that my departments, within the resources available, will make in meeting the needs for the development of our State. Firstly, I will refer to the Queensland Water Resources Commission. Honourable members will need no reminding of the vagaries of the Queensland climate. After what can only be described as a disastrous start to 1983 because of the widespread drought conditions, the mral sector is now entering a favourable season. The commission enters the summer with storage in its and major weirs at 93 per cent of total designed capacity, compared with some 68 per cent at this time in 1982, 892 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

For the benefit of the considerable number of new members in the Chamber, I vk'ill provide a brief resume of the role of the commission. The Commissioner of Water Resources, by virtue of the Acts which he administers under my direction, is charged with certain special functions and duties. Briefly, they are— To investigate, record and assess the State's water resources, both surface and underground; To evaluate water requirements and plan the development of these resources; To license and control diversions of surface, artesian and, in declared areas, subartesian waters; To construct works for the conservation, utilisation and distribution of the waters of the State and to manage such works; To provide technical and financial assistance to farmers to improve water supplies for , stock and domestic purposes and for drainage works; To supervise river trusts in the undertaking of works of stream improvement to correct erosion and to mitigate flood damage; and To supervise the constitution of areas and boards for rural water supply, irrigation and drainage. The Government's policy embraces all aspects of water use, including stock, domestic, urban, irrigation, mining and power generation. It covers both surface and ground-water supplies and, increasingly where appropriate, the conjunctive use of these sources. Works undertaken range from major projects to serve large communities to the development of improvements on individual holdings. The total appropriations for expenditure by the commission from all sources amount to $145,668,394, This is provided from: Consolidated Revenue Fund, $19,323,620; Loan Fund, $17,300,000; and Trust and Special Funds, $109,044,774, The expenditure from the Trust and Special Funds includes $987,520 appropriated from consolidated revenue and $ 17.01m from loan funds. A significant feature of the funding in this year is the utilisation of the Larger Authorities Borrowing Program to provide approximately $ 14.9m for works and $l,7m for advances under the Farm Water Supplies Assistance Scheme, At the time of preparation of the Estimates, a special borrowing approval of $10m for the associated irrigation works for the Irrigation Project had not been formally approved and is not included in the Estimates. The Commonwealth Govemment has determined to formally support Queensland's application for this borrowing, and early Loan COuncil approval is expected. The other major sources of tmst funds are $24.7m from the electricity industry for water supplies for the Tarong, Callide and Stanwell Power Stations and non-repayable Commonwealth grants of $21.43m, made up of: the Burdekin Falls Dam, $13m; Bundaberg Irrigation Scheme, $4m; Eton Irrigation Scheme, $2.7m; , Stage II, $lm; and $730,000 for the water assessment program. Although it is not within the commission's appropriation, the Commonwealth has also provided grants totalUng $1.4m for flood-mitigation works being undertaken on Brisbane creeks and the Herbert River, Such grants are matched by the State and require the local authority or river tmst to provide $0.7m. The Commonwealth's decision to reduce its grant for water resource assessment from $1.05m in 1982-83 to $0,73m in 1983-84 is particularly disappointing and is placing great strain on the State, The Commonwealth's decision is contemptuous of the importance that the collection of adequate data is to aU water resource developments, be they from surface water or ground water. The continuing involvement of the Commonwealth Govemment in the water resources field is essential, and its grants for 1983-84 will do much to promote development of the particular schemes involved. WhUe making these comments I must, however, draw the attention of the COmmittee to the shortcomings of the Hawke Government's attitude to water resources. Early in 1983 the Fraser Government announced a new Water Resources Development Program, The main features of this program were— Completion of the then current National Water Resources Program in 1983-84 and a four-year extension of such program to take it to 1987-88; and Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 893

A special five-year supplementary program of $350m over five years aimed at accelerating the development of new water resources projects. Under the continuing National Water Resources Program, Queensland expected to receive approximately $50m for projects and programs now in hand. Although the Hawke Govemment has agreed to continue this program in 1983-84, it has given no clear indication as to whether it will continue the program in future years. In recently releasing the report "Water 2000", the Minister for Resources and Energy (Senator Peter Walsh) referred to the Government's 1983 election policy to determine national water resources priorities on the basis of the report but overlooked a major recommendation of the report that priority in water resource development for irrigation should be given to the completion of those projects already under construction. If the National Water Resources Program is not continued, projects such as Eton, Leslie Dam Stage I, and flood-mitigation schemes will be significantly affected. Senator Walsh commented that traditional pricing and other policies had favoured irrigators and that pricing poUcies had encouraged irrigation practices which are economically wasteful and sometimes environmentally damaging. I do not accept the senator's philosophies. Pricing policies in this State have always been aimed at a total recovery of annual costs of administration, operation and maintenance and, where possible, surplus over such costs towards interest and sinking fund payments on the capital costs of schemes. Senator Walsh's quasi-economic approach fails to recognise that irrigation development brings to an area increased value of production, expanding rural populations and income, stabiUty of production and employment, as well as generating economic growth in the region. The special supplemmtary program would have provided an additional $35m to Queensland for weirs on the Macintyre and Dawson Rivers, an additional $6m for the Bundaberg scheme, $10m towards completion of Awoonga Dam for the Gladstone Area Water Board, and $5m for a feasibility study of the . The weir on the Macintyre River is required for more effective regulation of releases from , The Dawson River weir was to replace old timber weirs which are ai^roaching the end of their useful Ufe. Both of these works must now be deferred. The special grant of $6m for the Bundaberg scheme would have enabled early completion of works to bring the Gin Gin main channel to full design capacity. The provision of the additional funds for this project would have had a real impact on its eventual completion. The cost of Awoonga Dam, due for completion in 1984, has escalated to the extent that water charges may become a deterrent to high-water-use industries estabUshing in the Gladstone area. The proposed grant would have alleviated that. While speaking on the effects of Commonwealth decisions on finance, it is necessary also to remind the Committee of the attitudes of the present Canberra Govemment to State roles and responsibilities. Senator Walsh has recently referred a proposal for the estabUshment of an institute of fresh-water studies to an interim council for investigation. The suggested functions of the proposed institute include— To investigate water quality; and To specifically advise on the equitable and effective management of the Murray/ Darling basin as a national resource. My Government views with concern the possible effects that establishment of the institute could have on Commonwealth funding of related programs for water-resource developments as well as on water research generally. It believes that existing research and academic organisations can undertake the necessary research more effectively and more efficiently than could a new research establishment. The Commonwealth's role should be to provide a framework for a more effective co-ordination of water research, and to provide enhanced funding to existing research organisations such as CSIRO, universities, etc. The capability already exists within the present agencies and authorities to develop appropriate management poUcies for the Murray-Darling basin. Queensland and New South Wales have an agreement for the development of eastern tributaries of the basin and the flows of certain intersecting streams. This agreement has worked well, and Queensland is opposed to any intmsion by other States or the Commonweahh that would Umit the right of the Queensland Government to make and implement decisions about waters originating in this State. I strongly urge all members to jealously guard the rights of the State to develop 894 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates) and utilise to the best advantage the water resources of the State and to ensure that such rights are not watered down by decisions such as the Franklin Dam case, AU States have an exceUent and proud record of water-resource developments. I refer now to the work proposed for 1983-84. The most exching feature on the commission's program for 1983-84 will be the significant progress on the Burdekin River irrigation project. The Hawke Govemment's agreement to honour the promise of the previous Government to meet the full cost of the Burdekin Falls Dam is greatly appreciated and the allocation of $13m in 1983-84 will enable completion of the constmction viUage, establishment by the contractor of plant and facilities and commencement of excavation for the dam foundations. The State has continued to honour its undertaking to carry out initial works associated with the dam. Design of the dam has been completed, and upgrading of the access road from Mingela to the dam site is well advanced. A further $3.8m will be expended on this phase in 1983-84, bringing expenditure by the State on the initial works to $15m. Progress on the associated irrigation works in the Lower Burdekin area will also be stepped up. The office and operations complex for the irrigation area, located in Ayr, has been completed, and work is well advanced on some 8 km of the main channel down each bank. Acceleration of activity on this phase of the project has been delayed pending approval of the $10m special borrowing referred to previously but will be stepped up as soon as this funding is finalised. By 30 June 1984, expenditure on the overall Burdekin project will total $49.3m, of which $32.5m will have been provided from State funds and $ 16.8m by the Commonwealth, The commitment of both Govemments to this exciting project is assured, and any doubts previously held by many Queenslanders must surely be dispelled. Under the State Govemment's job-creation program financed by savings from the wages pause, $7m was allocated to water conservation works and to boost available funding for private water-resource development. In addition to accelerating progress on a number of continuing schemes, it enabled planning and commencement of a number of new storages. These included a smaU dam on Deep Creek, near Gympie, and weirs on the Maranoa River and Barambah, Cressbrook and Lockyer Creeks. Over $5m of these funds wUl have been expended by 31 December 1983 and, subject to suitable site conditions, most of the weirs wUl be completed in the first half of 1984-85. Significant progress wUl again be made on reticulation of water within the Bundaberg irrigation project. A grant of $lm under the wages-pause program has enabled a start to be made on the Isis system. As at 30 June 1983, 604 farms were served by the scheme. Expendhure in 1983-84 of over $llm will ensure further significant progress on reticulation of water to lands between the Burnett and Kolan Rivers. $5.4m has been allocated to the Eton Irrigation Area. This will enable completion of a further 6.2 km of the Oakenden main channel and enhance progress on work to raise the embankment of to increase its storage capacity to 62 800 ML. Almost $2m is provided for the Barker-Barambah irrigation project design investigations, and preliminary works for the Bjelke-Petersen Dam will continue and the weir on Barambah Creek wUl be completed. The civil works for the raismg of Leslie Dam, near Warwick, wUl be comfdeted and contracts let for the manufacture and erection of the crest gat» and associated controls. Works associated with the raising of will be commenced. These works will more than double the capacity of both storages. During 1982-83 the Mary River Barrage was completed, and this year $2.5m has been aUocated for the construction of pipelines down each side of the river to serve lands below the barrage. Expendhure on the Lower Mary project to 30 June 1984 wUl total some $9m. FoUowing the completion of , the Tarong water supi^y wUl be completed and supply of water to the Tarong Power Station commraced. A start wUl be made on the Callkle water supply pipeline to convey water from Awoonga Dam to the Callide Power Station, and preliminary uivestigations of the water supply for the Stanwell Power Station wUl be initiated. The electricity industry wiU provide $22m for these works during the- year. The water supply systems will be owned and operated by the commission. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 895

In the past six months, I have had the pleasure of officiating at ceremonies to mark the completion of the Val Bird Weir, near Giru, and the Cania and Boondooma Dams, near Monto and Proston respectively. These works wUl benefit many land-holders in the Gim and Monto areas and along the Boyne River from Boondooma Dam to its junction with the Burnett River. Eighteen major dams and 67 weirs with a storage capacity of 4.13 ML are now in operation. Works in hand, including the Burdekin Falls Dam, will increase this capacity by over 50 per cent to 6,25 ML by the end of the 1980s. During the year ended 30 June 1983, a total of 75 230 ha were irrigated on 1925 properties within the seven constituted irrigation areas, and a further 35 0(X) ha were irrigated from supplies regulated by nine irrigation projects. The 110 000 ha irrigated from these projects provides clear evidence of the importance given to water conservation and irrigation by this Government, The need to ensure an efficient and reliable supply to land-holders in this continuing period of rising costs is placing a heavy burden on the commission. The operation and maintenance of works is the major function financed from the Consolidated Revenue Fund, With a requirement of $7.65m, it takes 40 per cent of the total revenue appropriation of $19,323,620, Salaries related to the operational, licensing, services and administration functions require $6,992 m and incidental expenses, equipment, etc., $1.553m. The Commissioner of Water Resources is charged with the fair and equitable distribution of the State's water resources. In these times of increasing awareness of the value of a supply, or the right to divert water, and the competition for supplies for mral, urban and industrial use, the commission is constantly examining water management practices and theories. Increasmg mterest is occurring in water-harvesting, particularly in the southem part of the State where the supplies regulated from commission storages are fully commhted or where the stream flows are normally inadequate to sustain year-round irrigation. Water-harvesting has developed to a very significant extent along the Condamine River for general irrigation and m substitution for diminishuig ground-water supplies, and many such developments are being cMisidered along the lower Balonne River and along the border streams. Significant levels of private development capital are mvolved in these projects and their development is reducing the keen demand for the development of further works by the commission. The commission is closely monhoring the practice of water-harvesting to ensure that existing private investment is not placed in jeopardy and that those supplies which are avail­ able can be utUised by as many land-holders as possible. The commission continues to give considerable attention to the super-wet belt of Queens­ land from Ingham to Mossman. In this region substantial areas of land are subject to problems of drainage and floodmg, which resuh in loss of productivity from one of the major sugar-cane areas in the State. Flood-management studies are currently under way in the Johnstone and CardweU shhe areas. These studies are being funded jointly with the respective river improvement trusts. The Cardwell shire study is virtually complete and a final report is expected in the new year. Flood-mitigation works in the Hinchinbrook shire are in the design process, and their constmction by the Herbert River Improvement Tmst will commence shortly. These works are the subject of a grant from the National Water Resources Program, with 80 per cwit of the cost being met equally by the State and Comm(Hiwealth Govemments. These works have arisoi out of a flood study of the Herbert River undertaken by the commission and the local river trust a year or two ago. Further investigation of the proposed RusseU River Flood Mitigation Project wUI continue. Dramage investigations in the super-wet belt continue to be given priority. To date a total of 12 drainage schemes is in operation, whUe a further two have recently been advertised prior to formally being constituted. 896 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

A total area of over 16 000 ha on 320 holdmgs has been drained by those schemes presently in operation. This required a significant involvement of commission staff and funds in the investigation and design of works—all at no cost to the land-holders concerned. In Hinchinbrook shire, the councU, in conjunction with the commission, cane-growers and sugar mUls, has embarked on an ambitious project to prepare a drainage plan for the currently assigned lands of the Herbert River valley. The commission is meeting one-third of the cost of the study, estimated to cost a total of $270,000. The study is presently in its final stages. A number of other drainage schemes in the Innisfail/Tully area and the Ingham area are under active investigation at the present time. Over the three years to June 1983, the commission has spent almost half a million dollars on flood studies and drainage investigations in the super-wet belt. Such expendhure does not include staff salaries. Significant interest in the Farm Water SuppUes Assistance Scheme was maintained in 1982-83. A total of 2473 applications was received, and 2 637 were finalised. Advances of $2,734,316, an increase of $863,479 on the previous year, were up on the previous year because of drought conditions. In the current year $2.3m has been provided for advances. In addition to its other roles, the commission is the constructing authority for the Wivenhoe and Split-Yard Creek dams on behalf of the Co-ordinator-General and the State Electricity Commission respectively, and is supervising the constmction of Awoonga Dam for the Gladstone and Area Water Board, All of those projects wUl be completed during 1984. Revenue from the operation of irrigation areas and projects in 1982-83 amounted to $10,481,859, givhig a surplus of 52,329,022 over the actual costs of operation, maintenance and administration. In determining its charges each year the Govemment seeks to cover such costs and to provide a small surplus towards capital costs. However, account is taken of the effect that increased water charges may have on the viability of cropping. In recognition of local and market conditions, rebates were aUowed in sugar areas and in the Emerald irrigation area in 1982-83 and will apply to tobacco-growers and rice- growers in the Mareeba/Dimbulah area in the current year. Estimated cash receipts for 1983-84 are expected to be— Water and drainage operation $10,650,000 Other $ 1,153,880 These compare with $7,934,504 and $1,701,425 in 1982-83 respectively. Honourable members will note that the commission's activities are spread throughout the State. To effectively service local needs, offices are established in 19 country centres. During 1983-84 the commission's works program included in the State plan of works totals $101,484,774. The commission's achievements in 1982-83 were significant and its aims for 1983-84 and the future are high. Including works for the electricity industry, 16 projects requiring $561 m to complete at present prices, are in hand or to commence this year. We wiU continue to actively seek Commonwealth assistance for appropriate schemes. The Government recognises the importance of its water resources and will continue to pursue a policy to provide improved supplies for proven areas and spread the benefits as widely as possible throughout the State. The annual report of the Commissioner has been tabled. The report covers the full range of the commission's activities and I trust that together with this introduction to the debate, it will provide members with adequate information on this aspect of my portfolio. The appropriations for the Department of Harbours and Marine are included within the following funds: Consolidated Revenue Fund, Trust and Special Funds (Beach Protection Authority Fund, Harbours Corporation Fund, and Quarantine Incineration Fund) and the State Loan Fund. The appropriations from the Consolidated Revenue Fund for 1983-84 amount to $22,534,200. This allocation comprises special provisions for the Beach Protection Fund and for small-craft facUities within the Harbours Corporation Fund, provision for cash equivalent of long service leave payments on retirements during the year, a provision of $130,000 for the pubUcation costs of the book, "The Principal Line-caught Fish of Queens­ land" and operational provisions including salaries, contingencies and marine services Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 897 development. These operational costs of my Department of Harbours and Marine are met to a significant degree—approximately 85 per cent—^by the amount of revenue which is expected to accrue to the State as a direct result of the department's activities and, in the case of the book "The Principal Une-caught Fish of Queensland", it is anticipated that the publication costs will be more than covered by the sales of this publication. My department levies conservancy dues on aU shipping using Queensland ports, to finance the provision and maintenance of all navigational aids within those ports. These dues, together with pilotage charges (which are self-explanatory), are estimated to retum $ 10.4m during the year, motor boat registrations, Ucences, and survey fees a further $3m, engineering and administrative services $2.6m, and sundry collections approximately $1.5m. This revenue wUl be produced from charges levied by the department for the financial year under consideration. These charges are increased from time to time to ensure that their real value is maintained and that increases in the cost of providing the services are met by the users of the services. Trade through Queensland ports aggregated 55 248 311 tonnes of cargo with 3 414 ships calling at the ports. Gladstone again handled the largest quantity of cargo, 18 564 749 tonnes, with Hay Point handUng 14167 842 tonnes, Brisbane 8 9760(X) tonnes, and Weipa 6743 005 tonnes. Development at Gladstone, Hay Point and Abbot Point is progressing and will have a significant effect on the State's exports. The first stage of the Dalrymple Bay coal-export faciUty at Hay Point has been completed and this facUity, together with the existing Hay Point faciUty, will have an annual export capacity of 40 million tonnes. Provision has been made for further expansion of the facUities when the world coal market improves. The Abbot Point facility wUl initially provide for an export capacity of 6,5 miUion tonnes per annum and the initial stage of the Qinton terminal at Gladstone has a 12 million tonne capacity. Deepening of the port of Gladstone has recently been completed at a total cost of $82m and the port now has the capacity to handle vessels in the 140 (XX) tonne class. The port of Hay Point now has two coal-loading facilities. The original facility was developed for the export of coal from the COntral Queensland COal Associates' fields and is owned and operated by the associates for the export of their own output. During last year 14 167 842 tonnes of coal were exported from this facility. The second facility, soon to be completed at a cost of $250m, is known as the Dalrymple Bay coal terminal, and is committed to accommodate the export of coal by four companies. This coal is mined at German Creek mine. Oaky Creek mine. Riverside mine and Blair Athol mine. The facility has been designed to accommodate vessels up to 200 0(X) dwt and has a maximum loading capacity of 6 6(X) tonnes per hour. As part of the commissioning of this new terminal, the first shipment of coal was loaded on board the 130 (XX) dwt vessel, the "Horyu Maro", which berthed at the terminal on 5 November 1983, The development of the new port of Abbot Point, which will provide for the berthing of vessels up to 165 000 tonnes dead weight for the export of coal, initiaUy from the CoUinsville and Newlands mines, will cost to the order of $190m. The facility has a maximum loading capacity of 4 6(X) tonnes per hour and it is expected to commence commissioning shipments of coal in February 1984, As can be seen, the rapid development of the vast natural resources of this State require tremendous amounts of money to be invested in port development. These recent developments represent and will represent for years to come an important component of the supporting base for a significant increase in the economic activity of the State. This dramatic need for growth in port facilities is placing increasing demands upon the skills and resources of the pilotage service and the navigational aids and facilities at the various ports. It is imperative that safety of Ufe at sea receives the high priority of consideration that it warrants both in development of technical skills and equipment and in providing the finances for such developments to take place. OperaticHially, and in development, the Marine Affairs Division of my Department of Harbours and Marine is financed through the Consolidated Revenue Fund and the State Loan Fund. The appropriation from Consolidated Revenue Fund for the 1983-84 financial year is $12,601,600, comprising salaries $5,397,100 and contingencies $7,204,500. In addition, an amount of $3,473,770 has been aUocated from State Loan Funds, 898 20 December 1983 Supply (Estunates)

During the year just completed, pilots of the department performed 5 040 pUotages and 540 intra-port movements, which produced revenue of $5,767,000. Income from pilotage charges for the current year is estimated at $6,5(X),000. The pilot service has a complement of 51 marine officers as harbour masters and pilots to service 14 ports and to supply a 24-hour, on-demand service 365 days of the year regardless of weather. It is proposed to employ two additional pilots this financial year. In addition, radar and signal station crews at Caloundra and Lytton maintain a 24-hour watch for shipping in the port of Brisbane. The development of all ports is a continuous process to cater for the needs of the larger vessels coming on to the coast, the increasing trade tonnage, and shipping volume of the future. A long-established policy of progressively replacing the older pilot launches whh new modem vessels is continuing. Three new steel vessels came into operation during 1982-83, and provision has been made in this Budget for the purchasing of two additional vessels. The total cost of the five vessels is approximately $lm. These developments, together with a program of overhaul to existing vessels of the pilot fleet, will enable the pilot service to maintain its high standard of efficiency and service. The department maintains the navigation aids system in all Queensland ports, and there are now over 21(X) navigation aids throughout Queensland waters. This system includes beacons and buoys, over 1000 of which support lights marking channels used by both ocean-going and smaU vessels. The dramatic increase of recent years in the number of small vessels using the waterways of the State has resulted in a flood of requests for Ughts and beacons to mark what had been considered remote areas. These requests are considered on their merits and, if warranted, acceded to as funds for such developments become available. It is estimated that an amount of $5(X),000 wiU be spent this financial year for navigation aids in waters used extensively by small craft. One of the major projects to be undertaken is the upgrading of the navigation aids in the Great Sandy Straits at an estimated cost of $130,0(X). Revenue for the maintenance of navigation aids throughout Queensland is raised by conservancy dues levied on shipping. Conservancy dues income for the current year is estimated at $4,900,000. Income of $4,310,498 was received in 1982-83, commercial vessels in Queensland, including hire dinghies, ferries, tourist launches, intrastate cargo vessels, sea-going fishing vessels, harbour and river ships, and tugs and lighters, are required to be inspected annually by shipwright or engineer surveyors, or both, as the case may be. These surveyors are employed by the department and are stati(Hied at Brisbane, Bundaberg, Mackay, Townsville and Caims. During the year, the field staff made 6 703 individual survey visits. Income from survey fees is estimated at $400,(X)0. Survey of ships is a safety measure for the protection of life and property at sea, and must be regarded as an essential community service. As at June 1983, over 84 000 private motor boats were registered in Queensland and an estimated 12 000 sailing craft, which do not require registration, were using the waterways. Unfortunately, it is believed that there are a large number of unregistered boats in Queensland, and a campaign to clamp down on unregistered boats and unlicensed drivers is continuing. Boating and fishing activities continue to be a major recreational pastime for Queenslanders and for many interstate and overseas visitors. Queensland's ideal climate and the accessibility to productive fishing grounds make the State's unique coast the water sport playground of Australia. With this in mind, the department is endeavouring, through its boating safety program, to stress upon the boating public the need for safe boating practice. Provision of $100,0(X) has been made in this Budget for the continuation of the boating education program. In the community interest, a measure of control over the activities of private vessel operators is carried out by the Queensland Boating and Fisheries Patrol, which also polices the requirements of the Fisheries Act and Regulations. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 899

During the last financial year, action was taken or was pending on 1759 breaches of the Queenshmd Marine Act and the Fisheries Act. Penalties imposed by the court during 1982-83 were $37,399 for breaches of the Marine Act and $66,242 for breaches of the Fisheries Act. The taking of female and undersized crabs is still the most prevalent offence amongst amateur and professional fishermen. During the past year, patrol officers seized 650 mud crabs and 420 sand crabs as being either female or undersized. Approximately 560 iUegal nets, crab pots and dillies were also seized during the year and their users prosecuted. The implementation of management controls of the Queensland barramundi fishery is continuing, and air and coastal surveillance is undertaken by the Queensland Boating and Fisheries Patrol during the closed season of November, December and January. The estimated cost, other than salaries, of implementation of the program is $260,000. In addition, the patrol carries out coastal and aerial surveiUance in the Gulf of Carpentaria and Torres Strait in respect to fisheries management of these areas. The netting of sharks off popular beaches was commenced in 1962 and continues to afford protection at 61 beaches in aU, using 46 nets and 189 dmm-lines. An experimental shark-meshing program at Tannum Sands near Gladstone and Moore Park near Bundaberg is to be undertaken this financial year. During the 1982-83 shark fishing season a total of 986 sharks and 730 pups were taken by net and drum-Une. The total catch since commencement of the program is 25 757 sharks and 11 576 pups. Although the shark-meshing operations cannot be claimed to be an infallible method of protection from individual shark attacks, it is significant that there have been no attacks in protected areas since the program commenced. A provision of $598,000 has been made for 1983-84 to continue this program. Other development works being undertaken within the Marine Affairs Division include the continuation of the repositioning and upgrading of channel beacons in Gladstone Harbour because of the deepening and widening of the channel for vessels using the Clinton terminal facilities. Navigation aids at the coal-loading ports of Dalrymple Bay and Abbot Point are being established, and at the ports of Brisbane, Weipa, Bundaberg, Port Alma and Townsville, navigation aids are to be upgraded during 1983-84. A UHF communication network linking all departmental offices and depots between Southport and Rockhampton will be completed this year. It is expected that the construction of the Townsville marine complex will be commenced and expansion of the marine complex at Pinkenba will proceed with the construction of a storage facUity for housing of navigation-aid equipment and oil pollution clean-up gear. The next Vote within the Consolidated Revenue Fund for consideration is that of the Administration Division of the department. This division provides administrative and clerical support for the whole of my Department of Harbours and Marine in the areas of accounts, records, correspondence and management organisational services. It also provides administrative services in relation to matters that arise pursuant to the various Acts of Parliament administered by the department. Services performed by this division and by the Works Division for the branches of the department funded from Trust and Special Funds are recovered by raising internal charges on these funds for credit to consolidated revenue receipts. The proposed expenditure of the next Vote to be considered is that of the Works Division of the Department of Harbours and Marine, This division is a service unit supplying engineering services to the other divisions of the department, and to harbour boards and local authorities. The appropriation from the Consolidated Revenue Fund for the 1983-84 financial year is $5,340,300 comprising salaries $2,204,600 and contingencies $3,135,700. In addhion, an amount of $640,0(X) has been provided from State loan funds for further development at the Queensland Govemment hydraulics laboratory at Deagon and for the equipment and modification to the survey vessel QG "Trigla" At the Queensland Government hydraulics' laboratory at Deagon, $520,000 will be spent this year on construction of an administration building and a workshop. Models at present in progress at Xhe laboratory include the Maroochy River flood plain model and the Gladstone Harbour model, A model of the Rosslyn Bay boat harbour is to be 900 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

prepared for testing for future development at the harbour. Advisory services are also provided to the public with respect to canal development, reclamations, constructions below high-water mark, and hydrographic surveys. The marine biology Vote represents the estimated contingencies costs for this section of the department, which includes the production of the book "The Principal Une-caught Fish of (Queensland" for which an allocation of $130,000 for publication costs has been made. Proceeds from the sale of the publication wUl be credited to consolidated revenue. Also included in this section is responsibility for further development and operation of the fish hatchery. The hatchery has been developed to a stage at which 3 000 fingerlings of yellow-belly were released in the and the Mary and Condamine Rivers in the early part of the year, and it is expected that further stocks of the fingerlings will become available for stocking fresh-water streams in south-east Queensland early in the new year. These fish are important angling and edible species and grow to an average size of 1.8 kg. Two further provisions from the Consolidated Revenue Fund are an amount to be credited to Beach Protection Fund and an amount to be credited to Harbours Corporation Fund. These two items provide for transfers to the Trust and Special Funds to meet operational commitments of those special funds. This expenditure will be further explained later in this Estimates address. To this point the main expenditure commitment has been in respect of matters dealing with navigation and engineering activities of my department. The next appropriations to deal with cover matters relating to the harbours of this State for which no harbour board is constituted. The harbour authority for these harbours is the Harbours Corporation of Queensland. The Harbours Corporation is charged under the Harbours Act with managenient and control of the harbours of Hay Point, Abbot Point, Weipa, Lucinda, Innisfail/MourUyan, Thursday Island and Maryborough and the boat harbours of Mooloolaba, Rosslyn Bay, Urangan and Snapper Creek. Control Ojf expenditure for this part of the department's activities is provided through the Harbours Corporation Trust Fund, Income to the trust fund is generated from charges levied on the users of each port by way of harbour dues, berthage charges, etc. Development within each port is financed from surplus revenue, loan raisings and, in some cases, port-user capital contributions. Income from all sources for 1983-84 is estimated at $453,7m. Expenditure for 1983-84 is estimated at $48r,6m. The major part of this expenditure is for the construction of the terminal and the repayment of temporary Treasury loans associated with the harbours of Dalrymple Bay and Abbot Point for the export of coal. At the harbour of Hay Point, the Dalrymple Bay coal export terminal wUl require a total of $5.5m to be spent in 1983-84 on both onshore and offshore works, and $13Im on the repayment of temporary Treasury loans. The finance for these works comes from two sources. The onshore infrastmcture costs will be met by contributions from the coal companies that have agreed to export through this terminal and the offshore works wUl be funded from sources arranged by the State, towards which an initial $17m has been borrowed overseas by the Harbours Corporation and $60m has been borrowed overseas by the Queensland Government Develop­ ment Authority on behalf of the Harbours Corporation. To date temporary Treasury loan accommodation has been made available to cover the progressive costs of the offshore works pending the completion of long-term arrangements for the State's share of the funding. At the harbour of Abbot Point the onshore infrastructure costs will again be met by contributions by the coal company and the offshore works will be funded by the State. The estimated expenditure on the project works in 1983-84 is $122m plus $110m on the repayment of temporary Treasury loans. Development in other corporation harbours will continue in 1983-84, with an estimated $14m being spent on the first stage of a tug harbour at Hay Point and $1.2m on the port administration building, tourist access road and helipad on Mt GrUfiths at that port. $650,000 will be spent on roadworks, moorings, workshop and toilet faciUties at Mourilyan, $540,000 at Mooloolaba Boat Harbour to gain the use of additional harbour land, and $160,000 at Rosslyn Bay Boat Harbour for land reclamation and the constmction Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 901

of an amenities block. In addition, dredging maintenance at Weipa Harbour is budgeted at $2,460,(X)0 in expectation of a requirement for removal of sUtation in the chaimel. The extent of the dredging program wUl be dependent on weather conditions experienced in the Gulf during the 1984 cyclone season. The Harbours Corporation interest and redemption commitments for the servicing of loans raised over the years are estimated to be $22.8m for 1983-84. Of this, some $586,000 is in respect of loans raised for the provision of mooring facilities in boat harbours for use by boat-owners. A levy is made on each boat harbour management authority to partly defray the cost of servicing these loans. A further $650,000 of the interest and redemption is met by contributions from C!SR and the Sugar Board in respect of loans raised for the construction of bulk-handling facilities for molasses and sugar at the harbours of Mourilyan and Lucinda. Included in the Harbours Corporation Trust Fund are grants from Consolidated Revenue Fund and State Loan Fund towards the cost of construction and maintenance of small craft facUities throughout Queensland, These faciUties include breakwaters, boat ramps, public jetties and access dredging to these facUities. The amount provided in 1983-84 for these activities is $2,050,000, being $500,000 from revenue and $1,550,000 from loans. I believe that the provision of small craft facilties within the State is a most important issue as it provides an attraction for tourists as well as meets the needs of Queensland's boating public. Throughout the State there are approximately 310 public boat ramp lanes, 72 public jetties and 14 Crown boat harbours. Expenditure on small craft faciUties throughout the State for the last financial year amounted to $2,044,503, of which approximaely $500,000 was spent on public jetties and $870,(X)0 on maintenance and development of existing boat harbours. More than 20 years ago the Queensland Government commenced constmction of the Crown boat harbour at Manly in Moreton Bay, which was the first of a series of such developments designed to foster recreational boating within the State of (^eensland. Today, with Oown boat harbours under staged constmction at approximately 14 locations along the coast, with private motor boat vessel registrations in the State nearing 85 0(X) and with an estimated 12 0(X) sailing craft using the waterways, the need to provide safe mooring havens for vessels is of prime importance to my Department of Harbours and Marine. At present Crown boat harbours provide approximately 1500 moorings for use by the boating public. They provide facilities for commercial fishermen, areas for boating clubs, lease areas for marine-'based commercial operators and industries, leases for rescue organisations and also launching ramps and car/trailer parking areas for use by the boating public. Over the years the cost involved in maintaining and developing boat harbours has grown significantly. Private enterprise is seeking to develop marinas and my Government's policy of encouraging participation by private enterprise to develop new boat harbours and constmct marinas for the boating public of Queensland wiU continue. Although it is not directly controlled through parliamentary provisions, the development of the harbour board ports remains a prime consideration of my portfolio. There are eight harbour board ports and I would like to mention some of the developments currently in progress in some of these ports. The Port of Brisbane Authority has, during the year, continued its development of the port at Fisherman Islands with the completion of the bulk coal export facUity and the bulk cement import installation. The bulk coal export faciUty came into operation in February 1983 and, to date, approximately 673 (X)0 tonnes of coal has been shipped from the port. The development of the port is continuing, with a bulk sugar storage and export facility to be developed at a cost of some $36m. In view of these developments and expected further expansion of the port, the authority is presently conducting a detailed investigation into the feasibUity of deepening the North East Channel in Moreton Bay to cater for vessels up to 180 000 dwt. A matter of significant importance to the port of Brisbane is the construction of a standard gauge rail link to the new port at Fisherman Islands. It must be realised that there are enormous amounts of cargo in northern New South Wales that could be loaded through the port of Brisbane. Any area north of Coffs Harbour is closer to 608S8—31 902 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates) the port of Brisbane than it is to the port of Sydney, The development of the rail Unk woukl make the port of Brisbane competitive with Sydney and encourage export-orientated industry to decentralise and establish along the interstate line in Queensland and New South Wales. It would also attract the bulk haulage of northem New South Wales primary produce to its geographically natural and most economic port outlet, create business for shippers, raUways and suppliers, possibly reverse the flow to Sydney of rail freight such as meat and wool and reduce costs by obviating double handling. Additional freight through the port of Brisbane would mean additional income which would be very important to this State's economy and to the operation of the port of Brisbane. The provision of this standard gauge Unk to the port had been promised by the previous Federal Government but, ahhough the current Government has made occasional reference to the possibUity of its proceeding, no definite assurance on timing has been obtained. The Bureau of Transport Economics is presently investigating the proposal and it is to be hoped that its report does not reflect the patent lack of interest shown in the proposal by the Hawke Govemment. It is my belief and that of my Government that the standard gauge rail link should be established, and I wUl continue pursuing this matter with the relevant Commonwealth authority. At Gladstone, dredging of the port was completed last financial year at a cost of $82m and the port now has the capacity to handle vessels up to 140 000 dwt. The Clinton coal facility is being expanded and, upon completion of the latest stockpile area, will have a storage capacity of 2 mUlion tonnes. Work has commenced on the constmction of additional grain storage at the port, and the board will be responsible for the upgrading of ship-loading facilities. This upgrading will involve the constmction of a 1 200 tonnes per hour mobile gantry ship-loader, extension of the present wharf and extension of the present conveyer gallery. Combined with the existing ship-loader, the facility wUl have a capacity of 1 600 tonnes per hour and be capable of fully loading vessels up to 50 000 dwt. The board will this week be celebrating the achievement of a total throughput of cargo of 20 million tonnes for a 12-month period which represents a major attainment when it is considered that the real development of this port has taken place mainly over the last two decades. My congratulations go to the members of the board at Gladstone, to other previous members who have taken part in the growth of the port, and to the board's officers for the vigorous approach which they have adopted towards assisting the development of export industries using Gladstone as their outlet. The Mackay Harbour Board has recently completed Stage I of an export grain terminal, which includes four vertical silos with a capacity of 11 200 tonnes, receiving and outloading facUities, rail loop, drier, and a fumigation and aeration plant at a cost of $5.6m. In conjunction with this facility the board has purchased a mobile ship-loader with a loading rate of 4(X) tonnes per hour at a cost of $180,0(X), Consideration is being given to the development of a 750 wet-berth marina to meet the growing needs of local small craft, visiting yachts, and the commercial fishing and tourist fleet. The Townsville Harbour Board is upgrading berthing faciUties at the port at an estimated cost of $3.5m, A major project to be undertaken is the removal of Magazine HUl, and the constmction of a rock wall and the subsequent reclamation of approximately 105 ha for use for harbour purposes. This project will be carried out over a number of years. More thah $ 1.25m has been spent on dredging and on constmcting moorings and facilities in the Ross River for use by small craft, including fishing vessels. Further north, in December 1981 the Caims Port Authority acquired the ownership of the Cairns Airport and became responsible for both its maintenance and operation and the upgrading of mnways and terminal faciUties to intemational standards. It is anticipated that these works will be completed in March 1984 at an estimated cost of $33m, of which the board contributed approximately $5m and the Commonwealth Govemment the remainder. During last financial year a roll-on roll-off facility was constructed at a cost of $2m. Although not a harbour board in the traditional sense, the Gold Coast Waterways Authority, constituted by the Gold Coast Waterways Authority Act, has the powers and functions of a harbour board and has assumed management and control of the harbour functions in the waterways from the Logan River to the New South Wales border. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 903

Major development work is to be undertaken in the area under the authority's control to stablise the Southport bar and provide a safe entrance to The Broadwater for marine craft. The project involves the building of two training walls and a wave-break island inside the entrance. The capital cost of wall constmction, sand bypassing, wave-break island, navigation aids and related works is estimated to be in excess of $30m. Apart from providing a safe all-weather and tidal entrance to The Broadwater the scheme will also check the northem migration of the Nerang River entrance. Pumping of sand across the entrance from the south to the north will be necessary in order to prevent erosion on South Stradbroke Island, Tenders have been called for this work. The authority's functions also include supervision of the Southport Boat Harbour, and the issue of approvals for the constmction of marine structures along the foreshores and for the taking of sand and other materials by dredging. [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.] Mr GOLEBY: I should elaborate on one further appropriation from ConsoUdated Revenue Fund to which I referred earlier. It is the provision of $1,639,000 to be credited to the Beach Protection Authority Fund, a special fund under the Trust and Special Funds provisions. Briefly, the functions of the authority are to investigate and plan for preventative and remedial measures to control coastal erosion. To this end, the amount budgeted to provide technical services to the Beach Protection Authority of $1,692,(X)0, which includes the revenue grant, the balance of the fund at 1 July 1983, and some sundry income, wiU include SI,262,000 for investigation into coastal behaviour and provision of advice, mainly to local authorities, on planning and remedial measures for erosion, and $301,(XX) for research and management of coastal sand dunes and their conservation. The merit of the planning and remedial measures advised by the authority to other bodies is wholly dependent upon the extent of data avaUable to the authority. The collection of data on the behaviour of any particular section of coastline and the ocean forces acting upon it, which vary from season to season, requires periods of between three and six years. Investigation of ocean and coastal behaviour therefore forms a major portion of the work of the authority, and $510,500 has been included for this purpose. As the ocean makes great demands on both the men and the equipment involved in this form of data collection, the costs of investigation of coastal behaviour along our very long coastline are invariably high. In this respect an amount of $120,500 has been set aside for maintenance replacement and additional storm-surge and wave-recording equipment. Never­ theless, it is with some satisfacti

In conclusion, I thank the <^cers of my department, namely, Mr Don Beattie, the Commissioner of Water Resources, and his officers, and Mr John Leech, the Dhector of Harbours and Marine, and his officers, for the assistance they have given to me in the past 12 months. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I desire to inform honourable members that, on the Vote proposed, I will allow full discussion on all of the Ministers' departmental estimates (C(MI- solidated Revenue, Tmst and Special Funds, and Loan Fund Account). For the information of honourable members, I point out that the administrative acts of the department are open to debate, but the necessity for legislation and matters involving legislation cannot be discussed in Committee of Supply. Mr EATON (Mourilyan) (2.20 p.m.): Although the Minister's report was detailed, I believe that it took up too much time. This will be a two^hour debate, and the Minister StiU has the right of reply. Only three Opposition members wiU be allowed to participate m the debate. I appreciate that you, Mr Row, said that you will allow a wide-ranging debate on these Estimates but, because the department covers such a wide area, the Estimates will not be fully covered. Because the time for debate is limited, members of the Opposition cannot submit all the propositions that they would like to or point out all of the needs of their various electorates. The recent drought should have illustrated the need for funds to be made available to the Queensland Water Resources Commission. The amount allocated for capital expenditure has been falling over the years, and this year it represents only 2^ per cent of the total Budget. Because much of Queensland is very dry, greater importance should be placed on the Water Resources Commission. I support the Minister's request to Cabinet that more funds be made available. Although, as the Miiuster said, Queensland may be leading the nation in some aspects of water resources, it is behind some other States in the provision of water storage facilities and town water supplies. Some of the other States may have been developed earlier than Queensland and have overcome the problems that Queensland is now facing. Some of them have provided adequate water supplies and have built large numbers of dams, I am pleased that the amount of money made available for the Beach Protection Authority has been increased. However, even though that sum may appear on paper to be very large^ it will be inadequate to aUow the authority to cope with the demands made upon it because of Queensland's long coastline. Perhaps more money could be made available to local authorities on a subsidy basis. It must be remembered that Govemments can only spend the amount of money that is available to them. If they require additional money they have to raise it in some other way. The Federal Government could be approached to provide funds or funds could be raised through a State bank. Many pensioners have invested their money— sometimes large amounts—in non-interest-bearing deposits so that they do not lose their social security benefits. That money could be paid into a Govemment fund and lent by the Government at a reasonable rate of interest. At the moment, pensioners are giving their money to the banks, which lend it at high rates of interest. Today, Governments refer to interest rates of 13.5 per cent and 14 per cent as being low interest rates. To me, they are high interest rates. That is a problem that the Govemment has to overcome in the future. A Govemment Member: You are talking about the Federal Government. Mr EATON: I am talking about all Govemments. It is the responsibUity of the State Government to make money available in the form of grants or low-interest-rate loans to provide town water supplies and electricity. Water is important to the sugar industry. Two irrigation schemes are under way, but work is well behind schedule. River improvement trusts, which deal with drainage and soU conservation problems, are administered by the Water Resources Commission in conjunction with local authorities. Honourable members would realise that the Intemational Monetary Fund is one of the leading financial institutions in the world. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 905

An article m today's "Courier-MaU" states— "Under the Intemational Sugar Agreement the Sugar Board, through the State and Federal Govemments, approaches the International Monetary Fund to finance special stock obligations. Loans on this basis are provided at concessional interest rates—now 6.6 per cent— but are subject to recall by the IMF in the event of the subject country's position improving its balance of payments." The Queensland Government should take a leaf out of the International Monetary Fund's book and implement some of the fund's poUcies. The Queensland Government may have to work in conjunction with the Federal Government, I ask the Minister to take up that possibility with his Cabinet colleagues so that something along those lines can be achieved, I retum to water resources, Australia has recently come through a very severe drought, one that had a serious effect on the economy of all States, particularly (^eensland. Immediately after the drought broke, Queensland was hit by floods, particularly in the south-westem comer. Many figures have been bandied about conceming the loss sustained by Queensland as a result of the floods. Those figures range from $150m to $200m as being the cost of the floods, excluding lost revenue, to the various Govemmrait departments and insurance companies. People were hoping for rain; but when it came, the results were as disastrous as those of the drought. I realise that the Govemment cannot construct dams everywhere they are needed. However, it should draw up long-range plans for the future constmction of dams. The levels in the underground water supplies are dropping. The underground storage areas simply have not been replenished. It is necessary for the Government to consider the construction of a large number of small dams in certain areas of Queensland. One such area is the Denison River region, inland from Mackay. Recently I toured that region, which is expected to be the location of a new coal project. In the initial stages of development, the project will be allowed to tap the undergroimd water supplies. That, of course, wiU further diminish those supplies, to the detriment of the local graziers and other primary producers who depend on them. Unless the Government constructs small dams in that region, development will be retarded, and the State can UI afford a slowing down of development. On my tour I visited Oermont and Emerald. I also inspected water supply projects in the area. It was pleasing to see that one such scheme was nearing completion. When completed it will aUow farms in the area to be irrigated. As well, I inspected the Blah Athol mine area, in which a dam was constructed in approximately 12 months. No time was lost as a result of strikes or accidents, and the cost of constmction was quite reasonable. That dam is a very good iUustration of what can be achieved when private enterprise puts its nose to the grindstone. In that respect the Govemment could well take a leaf out of private enterprise's book. A Government Member interjected. Mr EATON: I am quite happy to compliment the Government on occasions when it carries out necessary works. However, my concem is that the Govemment is well behind the times. The delays that are occurring in the completion of the Bundaberg and Eton irrigation schemes are a good example of that. The tremendous losses that occurred in the Isis area as the result of the recent drought could have been avoided if the schemes had been completed long ago. I realise that both the present Federal Government and the former Federal Govemment cut back on funding for those schemes. However, so did the Queenslsmd Govemment, Instead of commencing new schemes willy-nUly throughout the State, the Queensland Govemmoit should concentrate on completmg those schemes already under way. The longer the projects are delayed, the more costly they are for the contractors and the greater is the possibility that the Govemment will have to foot the bill. As the member for Bundaberg (Mr CampbeU) is more familiar with the problems m the Bundaberg area, I wUl leave to him any further reference to those problems. He wiU be able to elaborate on those problems in the short time that is available to him. 906 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

The Eton Irrigation Scheme is behind schedule. Although, as indicated in the Budget, a new section will be commenced, it will fall far short of the requirements

human predators; eels, ducks, shags and other natural predators feed on the young fish. Even if 50 per cent of the fish that are released into the dam under this scheme grow to their full size, much will be achieved. I should mention also the taking of undersized crabs, female crabs and crab-pots. Many people along the coast leave crab-pots out ovemight. Often, when they return to check the pots, they find that they have disappeared. That problem cannot be overcome by legislation. I congratulate the Minister on his handUng of his portfolio. I know that in the next 12 months Queenslanders can look forward to continued growth and development, particularly in the area of water conservation. That is encouraging to people in mral areas. Mr CAMPBELL (Bundaberg) (2.58 p.m.): One pleasing aspect of the report from the commissioner of Water Resources was the reference to the decentralisation of staff. Staff numbers have increased from 381 to 392 in areas other than head office. I hope that trend continues. It will aUow the workers to carry out their duties in the work-place. Decentralisation is causing difficult working conditiMis. At the Bundaberg c^ce of the Queensland Water Resources Commission, overcrowding is worse than ever. The sweat-shop conditions are not conducive to efficient working and are degrading to professional staff. I have witnessed the working conditions of the staff at the Bundaberg office of the Water Resources Commission for the last seven years and, during that time, have seen the conditions deteriorate. The commission is taking advantage of the dedicated staff, who are committed to the development of water resources in this State. I ask the Minister to investigate immediately the poor working ccmditions of his staff at Bundaberg and, if necessary, to join with the Minister for Primary Industries in an application to have new Govemment offices built at Bundaberg for both the Department of Primary Industries and the Water Resources COmmissimi. The lack of funds for the Water Resources Commission is clearly demonstrated by the 1983 annual report of the Commissioner of Water Resources. In the commissioner's covering letter he wrote that constraints in both funding and staff have made it more difficult for the commission to carry out its duties. I sympathise with the Minister, who is confronted with a difficult situaticm m which his Cabinet coUeagues have cut his water off! He is in the unmviable position of not being able effectively to meet the water resources needs of this State. In the Budget the National Party has shown its lack of concem and its total disregard for the development of (^eensland's water resources and for meeting this State's drainage needs. I now refer to the disturbing trend in the allocation of State funds to water resources. Over the years that allocation has diminished, and for the first time m a decade, m 1983-84, the estimated expendhure from the Consolidated Revenue Fund is less than one-half of 1 per cent of the total Budget outlay. In other words, less than cme-half of 1 per c«it of the total Budget allocation will be spent on water resources. The funds for water resources are shrinking. If the miniscule aUocation of funds for water resources is allowed to smk to an even lower level, the Water Resources Commission will evaporate into nothing more than a dried-up well of wishful thinking. I want to comment on the funds that have been spent on water resources over the years. In 1973-74, the allocation of the Budget to water resources amounted to 0.9 per cent. For the next nine years, the allocation hovered betweoi 0.5 and 0.6 per cent. This year, as I say, it has dropped to less than 0.5 per cent. Its exact allocation is 0.456 per cent. Mr FitzGerald: Do you think you could get more help from Canberra for us? Mr CAMPBELL: I am talking about the Consolidated Revenue Fund. I will get to the Trust and Special Funds later. The State Government's allocation from the Consolidated Revenue Fund is not enough to ensure the future of water resources in this State. As to the Trust and Special Funds, m 1982-83 a total of $135m was spent on water resources. In this year's Budget, the allocation from those funds falls to $109m, which represents a drop of 20 per cent. That clearly displays the diminishing role that the Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 911

Water Resources Commission plays m (^eensland. I object to that and aU honourable members should object to k. We should be asking for more funds for the development of our State. WiU the Mhiister explahi to the farmers, other people in mral areas, the Water Resources Commission and its dedicated staff why the State Government is allowing the Water Resources Commission to smk in priority? The figures reveal a lack of commitment by this Govemment to the development of water resources and to the meeting of this State's dramage needs. However, the Mmister is not the worst off in Cabinet. That dubious honour must go to the Minister for Industry, Small Business and Technology. His ConsoUdated Revenue Fund Vote feU by 15 p^- cent from last year's allocation. Who is getting the money? Lo and behold, it is the Premier and Treasurer—^the new protagonist on Treasury matters. The Premier's Department's allocation has increased by 12.5 per cent, and the Treasury Department's allocation has risen by a whackmg 70 per cent. This centralisation of spending within Cabinet shows a disturbing trend. The miniscule expenditure on the Water Resources Commission is affecting the development of irrigation schemes and urban water supplies. That claim is demonstrated by the turtle-pace completion of the Bundaberg Irrigation Scheme. The commissioner reported on page two of his report that good progress continued on water supply works in Bundaberg. Let me analyse that statement. Good progress? Perhaps. However, h is progress at a dwindling rate if it deprives for even longer the farmers of Bingera and Isis of that precious resource, water. The commissioner's report shows that the commission's work-force in 1982 was 12 and that it stayed at that level for 1983. The number of persons on wages dropped by 30 per cent from 103 to only 72. The number of persons on contract wages dropped by 29 per cent from 17 to 12. Expenditure in real terms on the Bundaberg Irrigation Scheme is diminishing. In 1982, expendhure was $10.1m. In 1983, expenditure was $10.6m. In 1984, expenditure of $llm is proposed. Of that sum $lm will come from the money provided under the wages pause program. Expenditure in real terms is not being maintained. The Government should be ashamed of its lack of commitment to the development of water resources in this State. The proposed level of funding is totally inadequate for a reasonable completion date. If funding is kept at the present level and inflation remains high, it is doubtful whether any final completion date can be given. If that level of funding and the present inflation rate continue, I ask the Minister to nominate the expected completion date for Stage 1 of the Bundaberg Irrigation Scheme. Again, I call on the State Government in 1983—three years after the proposed completion date for Stage 1 of the scheme—to negotiate with the Federal Govemment for continued funding on a 60:40 State/Federal basis and to pledge that the fund wUl be indexed at its present level. This year, because of the demands of the city water supply and farm irrigation, the Umitations of the irrigation scheme were exposed. Excessive underground pumping is still being done on the southern channel of the Bumett River at a rate in excess of the annual safe yield of that water basin. The people of Bundaberg have the right to expect that at some time in the future an adequate water supply enabUng the use of garden sprinklers wUl be available. To attract industries to Bundaberg, secure and adequate water suppUes are needed. Diversification of industry is a key requirement for the stability and growth of the region. It will make the region less dependent on the sugar industry income with its cycUc troughs caused by low world prices and variable production levels. In 1976, only one of the two siphons on the Gin Gin main channel was installed. That has limited the capacity of the system to provide sufficient water at times of high irrigation demand. An extra cost will be incurred when the second siphon is installed. It is interesting to note that the Minister expects the Federal Govemment to pick up the tab for that regrettable State Government decision. I ask the Minister: What will be the extra cost involved in the installation of the second siphon? It is also appropriate that by 1985, 100 years after the initial call for an irrigation scheme in the Bundaberg region, a detailed investigation of the water resources conservation requirements for the year 20(X) be undertaken. To quote from my maiden speech, I ask that an immediate investigation be made into the possibility of putting more farmers onto surface supply in the Woongarra area and allocating more underground water to district councils, because it is a known fact that that is cheaper ^ater for urban uso-«: bv (a) possibly upgrading pumps on the Burnett River and main channels surface system to enable 912 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates) more farmers to be supplied by this source; (b) determining the feasibiUty of providing surface water to farmers from a weir storage on the ElUott River as the underground water levels rise and water returns through the leakage zone to the Elliott River, when an economical safe water yield may be expected from this source; and (c) undertaking a feasibiUty study into retuming excess drainage water from Moore Park coastal farms to the main irrigation channels and using it for farming, future coastal urban supplies or the North Bundaberg water supply. The financing of those projects among the appropriate councils, farmers and Government is a matter that ought to be determined. I call for the completion of KalUwa Dam on the Bumett River to secure the future development of the city of Bundaberg and the stability of the Bundaberg/Isis sugar and other agricultural industries and the development of new secondary industries. The Federal Labor Government has announced the commencement of the Burdekin River irrigation project. That is very commendable. However, there is an aspect of very poor decision-making in the allocation of funds for irrigation schemes and other developments under the control of the Water Resources Commission when other schemes are so far behind schedule, Mr Lee: Why? Mr CAMPBELL: A completion date cannot be given for the Bundaberg Irrigation Scheme or for the Eton Irrigation Scheme. Perhaps some of those so-caUed leamed Liberal men should go back and do a course on management decision-making. It would help them quite a bit. They ought to know that money should be spent where it wUl earn the quickest return. The quickest return will be achieved by investing it into the reticulation system of the Bundaberg Irrigation Scheme and the Eton Irrigation Scheme. Within a year a return would be made on that investment as a result of water supplied to farmers. The increased production from those farms would lead to greater income to the State of Queensland. The decision-making of the commission should be looked at in that light. Local authorities throughout the State are urgently in need of funds to improve water supplies. Because of the low percentage of funds presently sx>ent on the development of water resources, the Government allocates funds for desperate measures only. Instead of having a forward plan, looking to the future, and determining the requhements, it waits until disasters occur and then hopes to implement measures to overcome them. Like the Minister, I recognise that irrigation development brings to an area increased value of production, expanding rural populations and income, stability of production and employment, and generation of economic growth. 1 have spent many years in the economic assessment of such schemes as the Emerald Irrigation Scheme, the Broken River Irrigation Scheme in the Bowen region and the St George Irrigation Scheme, as well as the agricultural impact study for the Advancetown Dam, However, the commission's dedicated staff cannot be expected to give their total commitment to overcoming the diminishing finances allocated by the State Government to the development of water resources, I reiterate what I have said. The State Government provides less than half of 1 per cent of consolidated revenue for the development of water resources. That is a disgrace. The development of Queensland will not proceed at the pace that it should. The farmers of our State will not have access to the water that they need and will not enjoy a stability of income that enables them to play their true economic role in the State. I ask the Minister to get in and fight for his fair share of funds to develop the water resources of Queensland. Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer) (3.13 p.m.): It is with pleasure that I join the debate on the Estimates presented by the Minister, for Water Resources and Maritime Services. Most of my allotted time wUI be devoted to speaking on water resources. It is not that the other part of the Minister's portfolio is not worthy of consideration. However, my area does not contain many ports or harbours. Very few boats are tied up in the Lockyer Valley, I do not envy the Minister. Some of those who have spoken in this debate have said that the portfolio warrants an increased allocation. I find it difficult to disagree with those who ask for increased allocations to their areas. However, there are economic considerations for the Government in the presentation of its Budget. Naturally, I would like to see all expenditure increased in the Budget and aU taxation lowered. If the Treasurer can be Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 913

convinced of that possibility I would like to see a massive increase in expenditure on water resources. However, the whole matter must be looked at in the light of budgetary considerations. If I followed his trend correctly, I think the member who preceded me in the debate was advocating the immediate completion of some projects in the State. I understood him to say that the quicker those projects were completed, the quicker they would show a profit and the quicker money could be put back into the department to provide more development. I have to point out that, as the Minister said, for the year 1982-83 revenue from the operation of irrigation areas and projects amounted to $10,481,859, giving a surplus of $2,239,022 over the actual cost of operation, maintenance and administration. In other words, all irrigation farmers should be told quite clearly that the capital cost of providing the dams, channels and associated works for a major irrigation project is being borne by the Consolidated Revenue Fund, which is money from the tax-payers of Queensland, and is not being borne by those who benefit from the use of that water, I do not advocate an increase in charges but primary producers throughout Queensland should realise that in the past water has been fairly cheap. Naturally enough, all honourable members advocate increased expenditure on capital works in their electorates because it is very nice to have injected into an area money from the Consolidated Revenue Fund which will only pay for running costs, not the capital cost of the construction of the project. The Minister also said— "In determining charges each year the Government seeks to cover such costs and to provide a small surplus towards capital costs. However, account is taken of the effect on the viability of cropping that increased water charges may have. In recognition of local and market conditions, rebates were allowed in sugar areas and in the Emerald Irrigation Area," All honourable members should realise the importance of that statement, I realise that the Minister's portfolio must take into account the future water requirements for urban, agricultural and grazing purposes as well as for power generation. 1 am sure that many people would be alarmed at the amount of water required by power stations. Quite a few people who work on the construction of the Tarong Power Station, which is a couple of kilometres outside my electorate, live at Yarraman, which is in my electorate. When I recently inspected the site, the project manager informed me that, annually, the 96-km pipeline from Boondooma Dam to Tarong will carry twice as much fresh water as is used by the city of Toowoomba, I realise some power stations use salt water for cooUng, People must realise that the restriction on the development of coal-fields in the inland is affected by the availabUity not only of coal close to the surface but also of water for use in a power station. I notice that the Budget provides for the expenditure of $12m for the completion of the Tarong pipeline. The Farm Water Supplies Assistance Scheme is an exceUent one that has developed gradually over a number of years. More and more farmers are availing themselves of the opportunity to participate in it. I would like the Minister to strongly support the scheme because it is one of the best self-help schemes ever introduced for water storage. There has been some criticism that reasonably well-off people are obtaining funds from the scheme when they could possibly fund a storage from other sources, but that criticism could probably be levelled at a lot of other assistance schemes. The fact is that Queensland tax-payers are getting great value for money from the scheme. As I said earlier, the caphal works program being carried out by the Water Resources Commission is being paid for by the commission— in other words, the tax-payers—and the beneficiaries are paying only for mnning costs, whereas under the Farm Water Supplies Assistance Scheme the farmer is paying for the work. The only benefit to the farmer is a lower rate of interest. At present it is the Agricultural Bank rate, which is not really low, but it is cheaper than commercial rates. That is the only charge on consolidated revenue made under the scheme, I would like the amount available to the scheme to be gradually increased, I notice in the Budget papers that this financial year it is expected that $2,3m will be made available under the Farm Water Supplies Assistance Scheme for advances to land-holders for on-farm works. I suggest that the amount will probably be insufficient again. Last year during the debate on these Estimates I suggested that the amount set aside for advances might be insufficient. The amount set aside for advances to land-holders for on-farm works in the 914 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

1982-83 Budget was $1.65m. According to the Minister's speech today, advances last year amounted to $2,734,316, an increase of $863,479 on the previous year. That was substantially more than the Budget allocation. No doubt circumstances had a lot to do with that increased spending. Farmers wanted to buUd storages because it was a dry year and scrapers and bulldozers were available. The allocation under the scheme has increased from $1.2m in 1981-82 to $2.3m in 1983-84, so I suggest that the Minister carefully monitor the amount expended during 1983-84, I could be wrong, but I believe that the allocation will once again be insufficient. I believe that will happen because more and more farmers are availing themselves of the opportunity to spend money in this important area of water conservation. I tum now to the Lockyer Valley. As the honourable member for Brisbane Central knows Mr Davis: Don't tell me, the ! Mr FITZGERALD: I rarely speak in this Assembly without calUng on the Government to continue the building of recharge weirs in the Lockyer VaUey to supplement the water supply in the aquifer, I am pleased that a series of weirs is presently being buUt in the Lockyer Valley. One is being constmcted on Tenthill Oeek in my electorate, I know that only a relatively small amount is expended on each weir and that weirs are of reasonably limited benefit to a number of farmers. However, only when there is a weir on every available site in the valley wUl all the farmers be entirely satisfied. I sympathise with the farmers. My area is without major economic water storage sites, and most of the locals realise that. Large quantities of produce are grown by the farmers who rely heavily on underground water and to a minor degree on stream suppUes. The area has a history of supplying the whole of the eastern coast of Australia with vegetables during times of drought. In fact, during the last major drought, it suppUed a huge tonnage of produce, lucerne hay and chaff all over the eastern coast of Australia. The farmers—^and I am a farmer myself— believe that Government expenditure is necessary to maintain present production, I sympathise with the Minister, The report reveals that the demand for water is greater than the recharge rate. In future, he will have to make some very difficult decisions. The water charges levied in the Ccmdamine ground-water area and the Redbank Creek area are very reasonable, No-cme could complain about them. The Condamine water charge is 83c per megalitre and the Redbank Creek charge is 55c a megalitre. I am sure that the farmers realise that a service charge is imposed only to cover the cost of reading the meters. Anyone who thinks that a charge for water is being levied is completely wrong. The Opposition spokesman said that he visited Laidley to look at the recharge weirs, I point out to him that the underground water in the Lockyer valley is not Ucensed. Licences are issued for onstream pumps, but most farmers do not rely on them to any extent. I point out also to the honourable member, who said that further licences were unavailable because of the shortage of water, that licences have never bieen issued for pumping underground water. The weirs are designed to put more water into the underground .system, not to supplement surface water supplies. The honourable member should further investigate the water supplies in that area. The Irrigation and Water Supply Commission assists local authorities in investigating water supplies for town and urban use. I received from the Minister for Local Govemment, Mam Roads and Racing a copy of a report on bulk water supply to MoretMi, Laidley, Esk and Gatton shires, particular consideration bemg given to a supply from Wivenhoe Dam, and I know that officers of the Water Resources Commission assisted in compUing the report. I was particularly interested in these conclusions— "1. The current groundwater sources of water for Gatton and Laidley wUl be unable to provide a satisfactory supply up to the year 2000. 2. The average safe, long term yield from the is of the order of 25 000 Ml per year, whereas the present average annual pumping rate for irrigation is estimated at some 46 500 Ml. Thus an assured supply for urban purposes could be provided only at the expense <^ supply to irrigators." Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 915

That wiU not be very practicable, because farmers have been irrigating in the vaUey since irrigation commenced in Queensland. They have developed the whole system at their own expense; it has been a purely private enterprise. It would be regrettable if their activities were to be curtailed to any great extent. The report finds that "an urban supply to provide water for Gatton should be obtained by constmction of the Lake Qarendon scheme" It gives the estimated cost of that dam and states that it would provide water for the Gatton shire for only a few years beyond the year 2000, The report finds that water for Laidley could be supplied from Lake Dyer but that that supply also would last for only a few years beyond the year 2000. The report states that no major surface storages in the area are worthy of consideration. In conclusion, it says— "The underground supplies in the areas of Gatton and Laidley are over-committed at present, and there is an indisputable need to conserve underground sources for use by agricultural interests. In these circumstances, it is considered that, if considerable urban development is to occur in these Shires, and in the Shires of Moreton and Esk, water supply to such development would need to come from Wivenhoe Dam. Special funding arrangements would need to be made to cover the costs of the necessary water supply works. Local Authorities would, of course, be able to obtain contributi(Mis from land developers towards the cost of such works," It is important that that document be studied by everybody interested in the scheme. The figures are very difficult to dispute. It is well known that the Lockyer Valley is very short of water. Great pressure is being applied to allow urban development in the Lockyer Valley, particularly in the westem area of the Gatton shire. But because the area has only a little surface water, the local authorities wiU have problems supplying water to the proposed development. I do not believe that present users of water should be providing capital for future water needs of shires. Arrangements should be made to allow shire councils to borrow money over long terms so that smaller repayments are made in the early years, and then they can be gradually increased. It would mean that as consumers receive a water supi^y, they would contribute towards the capital cost of providing water, Mr Davis interjected. Mr FITZGERALD: I remind the honourable member for Brisbane Central that we are left in no doubt about who the Federal Govemment thinks should fund the cost of supplyuig water. An article in "The Australian Financial Review" of 25 November 1983, under the heading "Government plans user pays water supply system", states— "The Federal Government is pushhig for an early start towards a 'user pays' system for water supply. This would ensure that Australia's relatively scarce water resources were used efficiently and the cost of supply was shared more equitably, the Minister for Resources and Energy, Senator Walsh, said in a speech given on his behalf to the annual water supply conference of the Local Government and Shires Association of NSW." The Minister for Water Resources was overseas at the time and the Minister for Fmance (Mr Dawkins) gave the speech. That article points out clearly the Federal Government's policy on water and the amount of assistance that Queensland can expect to receive in capital contribution for water resources in the future. Over the years, the Labor Party has demonstrated what its policy has been. Before the election, it promised one thing, but immediately after the election the promise was broken. The statement to which I referred was made recently. (Time expired.) The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Randell): Order! Before I call the member for Port Curtis, I remind him that the Minister has the right of reply, and that he will begin to sum up at approximately 3,45 p.m, Mr PREST (Port Curtis) (3,34 p,m.): I join whh the members of the Gladstone Harbour Board in thanking the officers of the department for the assistance and advice that they have given to the board over many years and, in particular, during the past 12 months. 916 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates) when the Gladstone Harbour Board had such a big program for dredging and improving the faciUties of that port. I join with the Minister in congratulating the Gladstone Harbour Board on its magnificent achievement of having exported 21 mUlion tonnes of cargo through the port of Gladstone this year. That is a record, and it speaks highly for the efficiency, dedication and loyalty of the executive officers of the Gladstone Harbour Board, particularly Brian Jordan and Reg Tanna, It is also an indication of the fine effort of the other workers who give theh whole-hearted support to the port of Gladstone, All of them have helped make that record tonnage possible. It is somewhat disappointing that the Minister, although he was appointed to his present portfoUo on 6 December last year, has not yet found time to visit the major port of central Queensland or, for that matter, Queensland. In presenting his Estimates, he praised the work that is being done by the port of Gladstone. The port means a great deal to the economy of Queensland and to the creation of employment in central Queensland, It has ensured employment not only for workers in the port itself but also for workers in the railways and in the various other organisations and enterprises that handle the cargo that passes through the port. I know that the Minister does not have a wide knowledge of the history of the port of Gladstone, so I remind him that back in the late 1940s the Labor Govemment of the day, with foresight, proved that grain could be grown in the central highlands. It cut large properties into smaller blocks. The result of that Labor Government's foresight is the export in 1982-83 through Gladstone of 271 519 tonnes of grain. It was soon after the 1940s that coal exports began through Gladstone. Thanks to the foresight of the then chairman of the Gladstone Harbour Board, the late Marty I^nson— who later became member for Port Curtis—^and the foresight of his fellow-members of the board, a conveyor system for coal exports was installed at Gladstone, It ensured the rapid progress of coal exports from central Queensland, and its installation led to the record export of 20 miUion tonnes of coal through Gladstone in 1983. After Marty Hanson, the successive chairmen and members of the Gladstone Harbour Board continued to adopt a progressive attitude. They were aware of what was needed to make Gladstone a major export port. The 1982-83 annual report of the Gladstone Harbour Board shows that over that period coal exports totalled 10 946 541 tonnes, alumina exports amounted to 1795 940 tonnes and grain exports, as I said, totalled 271519 tonnes. Those figures show that, besides being a major coal-exporting port, Gladstone is an important outlet for other commodities. However, its tonnage of general cargo is low. I suggest that if, as the result of a feasibility study, the Government decides to establish another container port in Queensland, that port should be Gladstone, It is a shame that the tonnage of cargo shipped through Gladstone dropped by 533 348 tonnes during 1982-83, Over the same period, the number of ships using the port dropped by 71, and those ships represented a gross tonnage of 995 187 tonnes. In future, coal from German Creek and Oaky Creek, which accounts for a considerable portion of Gladstone's exports, wiU be shipped through Dalrymple Bay. That wiU be lost, I am quite certain that, with the development that is taking place in other regions in central Queensland, it will not be long before that loss will be made up in some other field, I am greatly concerned about the statements made from time to time by the Premier, He said that the Government is considering the construction of a major port at Port Qinton, I am not in favour of that. I do not believe that such a port is necessary, because the ports of Gladstone, Hay Point, Dalrymple Bay and Abbot Point, when completed, will be able to handle in the vicinity of 80 million tonnes of coal per year. As the amount of coal being exported is only 30 million tonnes, the present faciUties are being used to only 50 per cent of their capacity. It will be some time before the ports are used to their full capacity. A downturn has occurred in coal exports. The demand for coal from overseas markets has decreased. If more ports are established throughout Queensland and if more coal-fields are developed, the same number of markets will exist. Overseas countries will be able to barter and obtain the best possible results for themselves. It was reported that the Premier was interested in establishing a coal-handling port at Bribie Island. It was also reported that he was considering the establishment of another Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 917 coal port at Red Rocks, near Bundaberg. That sort of propaganda and hoo-ha is increasing the demand for land in those areas. A haven is being provided for the real estate sharks of Queensland. On 25 Febmary the Premier was reported as having stated that it was necessary for the Government to begin investigations into potential port sites to complement the existing ports of Gladsone, Brisbane, Hay Point and ports under construction at Abbot Point and Dalrymple Bay. The Premier also stated that preliminary hydrographic and seismic surveys had been undertaken off shore from possible port sites at Stannage Bay and Stockyard Point. That would have been in the Port Clinton area. As I said earlier, that work is unnecessary because the present coal-handling port faciUties are not fully utilised. When the work being carried out at Gladstone. Hay Point and Abbot Point is completed, those three ports will be able to handle the 80 million tonnes of coal to which I referred. If Queensland coal exporters are to compete on the world market, costs must be contained. The way to contain costs is to use fully the existing infrastructure, such as rail, wharf and coal-handling facilities. If the present policy of borrowing to provide unnecessary facilities instead of fully utilising our existing facilities is continued, overseas buyers will be able to dictate terms on prices to be paid to coal exporters. Then, instead of benefits coming to our State and its workers, the benefits will be going to overseas countries. I will do everthing possible to maintain the coal trade through the port of Gladstone. That will not only ensure work for all the workers engaged by the Gladstone Harbour Board but also bring prosperity to the economy of Gladstone. I will do everything I can to ensure that the jobs of the railwaymen, who at present rely significantly for their livelihood on the cartage of coal, are retained. Coal should not be exported unnecessarily through another port. The jobs of the railwaymen in my electorate should not be taken from them so that they have to pull up their roots and live 1(X) miles north of Rockhampton. I am certain that the members for Rockhampton (Mr Wright) and Rockhampton North (Mr Yewdale) would support my comments. They would also be interested in securing the jobs of railwaymen who work in depots in their electorates. State Cabinet approved the spending of $250,000 for an initial study into the suitabiUty of Port Clinton, What has happened to that study? Has h been completed? What were the findings? Have they ever been made public? We have been told that, unfortunately for the Prenuer and his friend in Western Australia, Mr Lang Hancock, the report was not in favour of a deep-water facility at Port CUnton. The Premier wanted Cabmet to authorise a $l.5m feasibility study before the port was built. It should not be the responsibility of the people of Queensland to pay for such a study. The port is completely unnecessary. I repeat that the time allotted to me has been greatly restricted. However, I raise with the Minister his sincerity about safety on the water. On 7 December he said that penalities for drink-driving on the water were the same as those for road-users and that they would be enforced, I ask the Minister: How many people have been charged wUh drink-driving on the water over the last three or four years? His attention has been drawn to a ferry-owner who, in the last 12 months, has had at least four accidents on the water. One of them was at a time when 118 schoolchildren were on board. The report of the investigation into the accident was never released to the harbour-master. No action has ever been taken against that person. He has been afforded the same protection as this Government gave to Mr Ware, the solicitor, who overturned his vehicle at Boat Creek and left the scene of the accident. On the other hand, a person whose boat sank and who failed to report the accident to the authorities within 48 hours was fined by a magistrate. Why has no action been taken against that ferry-owner who has had so many accidents in the last 12 months, some of which he has never reported? That matter has been drawn to the attention of the department. The CHAIRMAN: Order! To enable the Minister to sum up Mr DAVIS: I rise to a point of order. I am extremely concerned that, out of the two hours and 45 minutes aUowed for the debate on these Estimates, the Minister is now to be given another 10 minutes hi addition to the period of more than one hour given to him at the commencement of the debate. I would like you, as Chairman of Committees, to report that fact to ensure that the Parliament has adequate debating time. 918 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

The CHAIRMAN: Order! I do not accept the substance of the point of order. However, I understand that the member who has just resumed his seat, the member for Port (Curtis, agreed to curtail the length of his speech to enable the Minister to reply. I now call the Minister. Hon, J. P. GOLEBY: (Redlands—Minister for Water Resources and Maritime Services) (3.48 p.m.): I thank all honourable members for their participation in the debate. The honourable member for Mourilyan mentioned the Bundaberg and Eton irrigation schemes, I acknowledge the work that is being done in those areas and the member's sentiments. He referred to delays. I feel constrained to say that some of the financial mismanagement can be attributed to the Whitlam Govemment, However, the Water Resources Commission is doing all that it can with the funds available to complete the work that Is already in hand. The honourable member suggested also that the Burdekin project should perhaps not have been commenced, I do not know whether or not the honourable member is aware of it, but the funding of the Burdekin scheme is completely outside the normal funding program for water resources. It is the subject of a special funding program agreed to by the previous Federal Government and also by the Hawke Government. The honourable member for Gympie commented on urban water supplies. The resources of my department are largely directed towards the provision of mral water supplies. The department provides assistance in the planning of urban water supplies but is not responsible for their funding. The honourable member for Mourilyan referred to expenditure on river improvement trusts. The commission is actively supporting tmsts to complete studies into flood mitigation works. The commission is constructing a number of small dams and weirs. As the member for Gympie said, one is being constmcted on Deep Creek. The honourable member for Lockyer referred to the weirs being constmcted in the Lockyer Valley. Mr R. J. Gibbs: Do you know where they are?

Mr GOLEBY: Yes. 1 have visited every site. They are being constructed in those areas because that is where the greatest need is. The member for Lockyer said that more weirs are needed, I acknowledge that fact, but 1 remind him that the weirs are being constructed in the areas with the lowest ground-water levels. I look forward to being able to open those new water storages in the Gympie and Lockyer areas in the very near future. The honourable member for Gympie referred to the shark-catching operations of the Department of Harbours and Marine, That has been a tremendous success. As I stated, no areas in which the program has operated have had any shark attacks. That clearly indicates the importance of that operation and the need for it to be continued. Recently the Boondooma and Cania Dams were opened. Of course, the Tarong Power Station will place a major demand on the water from the Boondooma Dam, but the remainder of the water from that storage will be used downstream as far as the Boyne River. The honourable member for Lockyer was concerned about funds for the highly successful Farm Water Supplies Assistance Scheme. He mentioned the additional expenditure over the past financial year, I remind honourable members that last year was particularly dry and the need for this service was very great. An extra $lm from the wages pause program was put into the scheme. That is where the extra funds came from. Like the honourable member, 1 am pleased that the man on the land has taken advantage of that service. The member for Bundaberg spoke about the lack of funding for water resource develop­ ment, something which everybody acknowledges. Irrespective of the portfolio for which a Minister has responsibility, he would always like more money. Over the years the level of funding made avaUable to the commission has been steadily increasing, not decreasing. In most years the rate of increase has been higher than the inflation rate. The reduction in the level of Trust and Special Funds available to the commission in 1983-84 represents a reduction in the level of effort associated with the Tarong water supply project. Supi^y (Estimates) 20 December 1983 919

The honourable member also made a number of comments about the Bundaberg project. I cannot accept his claim that the decision to constmct parts of the siphons along the Gin (jin main channel in stages was wrong. The decision enabled a number of other farmers to be served with irrigation water much earlier than would otherwise have been possible. The problems that were experienced during last year with the one sii^on are acknowledged. However, had the gates on the Bumett Barrage been able to be completed earlier, perhaps the problems would have been much reduced. I also note the honourable member's comments about the use of more underground water for urban supplies in the Bundaberg area. I draw his attention to the fact that the three councils in the area have been granted adequate allocations from the Bumett River to meet the demands of the city for many years. However, one of the councUs has not yet taken steps to adequately use the supply made available, I add that when local authorities are planning future subdivisions they should make adequate provision for the cost of water supplies by ensuring that subdividers provide the extra capital costs for the headworks needed to supply the water for the new subdivision. That would alleviate the need to inffict that burden on the rate-payers, who are using an established water supfriy and who have, in the main, paid for the estabUshment of that water supply, I ask him to convey that message to the local authorities in his electorate. Mr Campbell: Underground water is cheaper, that's the point. Mr GOLEBY: It may be cheaper, but it should be remembered that councUs have an obligation to ensure that subdividers do pay a certam amount for the water they will use, whether it comes from underground sources or elsewhere. The honourable member for Port Curtis said that I had not visited the Gladstone area, I remind him that he has never issued me with an invitation. However, I wiU be going to Gladstone shortly of my own volition, so he need not worry. The honourable member referred to safety on the water, and everyone acknowledges that that is very important. I wiU have the other issues he raised attended to. At 3.55 p.m.. The CHAIRMAN: Order! By agreement, under the provisicms of the Sessional Order agreed to by the House on 14 December, I shall now put the questions for the Vote under consideration and the balance remaining unvoted for Water Resources and Maritime Services. The questions for the following Votes were put, and agreed to— Water Resources and Maritime Services— $ Queensland Water Reources Commission 19,323,620 Balance of Vote, Consolidated Revenue, Trust and Special Funds and Loan Fund Account .. 638,274,859

Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs Chief Office, Department of Welfare Services Hon. G, H. MUNTZ (Whitsunday—^Minister for Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs) (3,56 p,m,): I move— "That $6,646,100 be granted for 'Department of Welfare Services—Chief Office'," Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs is a human service portfolio. My officers work with the famiUes, individuals and community organisations of Queensland. Their duty is to assist in the strengthening of the family unit and in the development of strong community- based support services. The staff are professional and compassionate. All sections of the portfoUo are progressive and supportive. I am pleased and proud to open this debate on the Estimates for Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs. I take this opportunity to assure all honourable members that the future will see even greater development of family and community-based services. Next year, Queenslanders will celebrate the Year of the Family. The year will focus on the value of the family environment for children and aduhs alike. The State Planning Committee has been established and the members, led by Senator Bjelke-Petersen, have begun work on the ways to best promote family Ufe. 920 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

My department wiU be co-ordinating Queensland's participation in Intemational Youth Year in 1985 and work here is progressing weU. COupled with the Year of the Family, the International Youth Year wiU heighten Queensland's awareness of the benefits of family living and the concems of young people. These activities will complement significant restmcturing of departmental services and regionalisation of administration and decision-making in the forthcoming year. Queensland is by far the most decentralised State in Australia and the development in the services offered by my department is designed to meet the needs of our widely dispersed population. The philosophy underlying that development is that assistance be directed to those most in need, that direct services be decentraUsed, that the existing strong voluntary and community involvement be developed through Government support and that the family is the primary focus of welfare programs. Total estimated consolidated revenue expenditure in the portfoUo for 1983-84 is $75,480,600. The full break-down of estimated expenditure is provided in the Estimates, This appropriation will be used to the maximum benefit of the people of Queensland. Chief Office The funds made avaUable for Chief Office will provide for both direct and indirect services through the office and its specialised units and branches. COntralised accounting, research, library and organisational services are also provided through these funds. Almost $2.6m wiU be made available to community organisations by way of grants or endowments on subscriptions and donations. Of note, moneys previously provided to the Queensland Social Service League by way of endowment will now be paid directly to the recipient organisations by way of grants. This provides for the more direct delivery of welfare services by eUminating the administration costs associated with operating through a third party. The money is used for emergency relief. Emergency relief to temporarily destitute individuals and famiUes is also paid through the Department of C!hildren's Services, the Relief Assistance Branch of Chief Office and, in certain cases, police stations. The rates have been increased and I shall provide details later. The Relief Assistance Branch also administers the free rail travel scheme. A total of 48 665 people benefited from this State Govemment scheme in 1982-83. I give special thanks to my colleague the Minister for Transport, whose department bears the cost of the journeys. The branch also assists with the cost of beds and meals for emergency shelter. Disabled Persons Service Services for disabled people are provided through the Disabled Persons Service which developed from the activities begun in my department during 1981, which was the International Year of Disabled Persons. The Disabled Persons Service, through a number of programs which assist disabled people, their families, and their organisations seeks to continue to break down the barriers preventing disabled people from enjoying full community life. Information and referral services were a high priority need expressed by disabled people during 1981. The Disabled Persons Service provides a central contact point for information about services, support and personal needs. This is the best information service in Australia for disabled people. People from anywhere in Queensland can telephone for the cost of only a local call, a unique facUity in the field, and the information service is currently being computerised to make it speedier and even more effective. The Disabled Persons Service also provides secretarial resources to many small organisations representing disabled people. This enables many groups to survive and, as weU, helps them to operate more effectively. Through a number of interdepartmental and interagency committees, the Disabled Persons Service seeks to reduce overlap. The officers of the service also work in communities, facilitating the development of voluntary regional bodies. The Disabled Persons Service also identifies instances in which services need to be provided or improved and works towards stimulating the development of such services. Resphe or relief care, to give the family a break from the demands of caring for a disabled person, is one example of this. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 921

The Queensland Industrial Insthution for the BUnd is incorporated in the Disabled Persons Service and continues to provide employment for blind workers in its industrial and sheltered workshops. The institution also conducts a talking book library and provides low-cost aids for blind people. The Ministerial Advisory Committee for the Blind, under the chairmanship of Mr Jack MacNamara, advises on matters affecting blind people, including Govemment policy and community services. The senior officer of the Disabled Persons Service (Mr Doug Martin) and his staff work hard to ensure that disabled people are given equal opportunity to achieve the independence and life-style possible. Their efforts are most appreciated. Division of Youth Affairs My department responded to the greater emphasis being placed on the problems of youth in modern society with the formation of a Division of Youth Affairs in January this year. The division commenced operation in February. In addition, the position of Director of Youth Affairs to head the division was created and has been filled in an acting capacity for some months. A permanent appointment is expected to be made in the very near future. Another positive step in gearing the department to meet the needs of youth—I consider youth to be our greatest asset—was the establishment of a new Ministerial Advisory Committee on Youth Affairs in July this year to provide well-informed advice from the non-Government sector. The division incorporates six youth-related programs from various sections of the portfolio catering for both advantaged and disadvantaged young people. These programs are the Youth Services Scheme, the Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme, the Youth Leadership Training Grants Scheme, the Youth Employment Support Scheme and Youth Assistance Scheme. The Youth Services Scheme is jointly funded on a dollar-for-dollar basis by the Commonwealth and State Governments and in the current financial year a total allocation of $584,000 is available. The scheme aims primarily at reducing youth homelessness and at least 11 worthwhile projects throughout the State will receive grants this year. The Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme is a major promoter of skUls and leadership among young people and last year more than 3 000 young men and women between 14 and 25 years of age participated. His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh personally presented 134 Gold Awards last year. The Youth Employment Support Scheme has proved to be a highly successful initiative under which field workers find positions for unemployed young people and provide them with foUow-up counselling that ensures, as far as possible, permanency of employment. This State Government scheme has benefited almost 4(X)0 young people who have succeeded in obtaining jobs while enrolled at the two existing YESS centres. It is intended to establish several more of these centres to give many more young Queenslanders the opportunity to benefit from the scheme. The additional centres will be strategically placed throughout the State in areas in which youth unemployment is highest. More than $100,(X)0 has been provided in the Estimates for the YESS scheme. The schemes of assistance to youth organisations administered by my department continue to make a major contribution to the expansion and consolidation of worthwhile activities for the young people of Queensland, The tremendous upsurge in applications for funding, however, has placed available resources under an unprecedented strain in the past two years, and this has resulted in substantial carry-forward commitments into the following year. Nevertheless, 39 youth bodies throughout the State received financial assistance on the construction of facilities in the last financial year, and grants for youth leadership training courses were made to 46 organisations. Twenty-six groups received funding either for full or part-time administration costs or full or part-time State directors of training. The total amount expended under these schemes during the last financial year was $1.2m, and approximately $l,5m wUl be spent in the current financial year, I extend my appreciation to Mr Alec Lobban, who has been acting in the capacity of director of the division, and to Mr Alan Pettigrew, the chairman, and to the other members of the advisory committee. 922 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

Queensland Recreation Council Recreation and physical fitness are key elements in modem society, and there is a big demand for assistance in these areas. The Government provides that assistance through the Queensland Recreation COuncil, The council's area recreation committees and those volunteer workers who assist are vitaUy important in providing these services throughout the State. Each area of Queensland has its own unique needs and, by decentralising its activities, the councU has ensured that these needs can be met in the most appropriate way. Information and research services are essential if people are to be provided with the recreation opportunities they want. The council provides these through its area committees and through "Dial-It" Unes sponsored by private organisations including Voca Communications, Radio 4BH, and James Hardie Industries. Research programs include infrastructure and community profile studies to find out what people want and how it should be provided. The coimcil also provides advice to local authorities wishing to enhance or expand their facUities. The council's network of low-cost camps continues to be extremely popular. The network is the most extensive of its type in AustraUa and last financial year had an occupancy rate in excess of 213 000 camper days. Special services are provided for the disadvantaged, particularly disabled people, who normally would have difficulty participating in many activities freely available to the rest of the community. The highly successful "Life. Be In It." and FREEPS programs continue to stimulate community recreation. They have been expanded and supplemented by new programs such as the "Try-A-Sport" concept. It is worth notmg that the "Be Active—Stay AUve..," program developed by the council has been accepted as a nationail program. In its first stage, "Be Active—Stay Alive..." has concentrated on fitness in the work-place. The Recreation COuncil is forward looking and progressive. The councU works in the community, closely co-operating with the people who need and want facUities and opportunities. It encourages fitness, and variety in recreation, and is concerned to see that family recreation is given the detailed attention it deserves. My appreciation is extended to the members of the council, particularly the chairman, Mr Alan Pettigrew, to the Director of Recreation Services, Mr Barry Nielsen, and all the staff of the council for a job well done. The dedication of thousands of volunteers throughout the State is to be praised. Division of Migrant Services The Division of Migrant Services is to be upgraded to departmental status and retitled the Department of Ethnic Affairs, in keeping with the Government's election promise. The new department will continue to provide its extensive services to the com­ munity. These include a comprehensive translating and interpreting service, migrant welfare counselling, information services, welcoming of migrants to Queensland and, in some cases, accommodation after arrival in this State. The new department will CMitinue close co-operation with all ethnic communities and government authorities, and strong emphasis will be placed on the identification of real needs and migrant welfare programs. The identification of needs is essential. Too often, pro­ grams are based on perceived rather than real need. If the funds allocated to the division, totalling over $lm this financial year, are to be spent in the most effective manner, the areas of need must be ascertained. Information services are also essential. The new department will continue production of its newsletter, "News and Views", which disseminates information as widely as possible. The Queensland Migrant Welcome Association, co-ordinated and resourced through the division, is also greatly concerned to ensure that newly arrived migrants have access to services. One of the greatest problems with access is, of course, language. The division provides extensive translating and interpreting services in many languages, A special interdepartmental committee was recently created to review the needs for interpreting in the justice and public health fields. This is only one part of the division's activities in improving co-ordinated access to Govemment services. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 923

The division is a central resource for the many community groups in Queensland. Its facUities are heavily used for conferences and functions. Other central services include research, a newly established reference library, language services and co-ordination of the extensive community consultation that the Government wishes to have with ethnic organisa­ tions. Consultation is, naturaUy, a central theme of the division's activities. A Migrant Advisory Committee has been established and it is hoped that a simUar complementary commhtee wUl be established soon in to ensure that the large number of migrants in that region of the State have a voice with the Minister for Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs. It is also expected that approval will be granted in the near future to aUocate an area of land at Yungaba, the division's headquarters in Brisbane, to Radio 4EB, Brisbane's ethnic broadcasting service. The Govemment has a strong interest in ethnic affairs, and I am pleased to be the Minister for Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs. With increased priority, upgrading of the division and broad consultation, the future for Queensland's ethnic communities will be very bright. 1 extend my appreciation to the director of the division and his staff, to the members of the advisory committee and to all those concemed and interested people who work with the division. Probation and Parole Service Community correctional programs have become a central part of the criminal justice system. Each year, the courts expand their use of probation and community service orders, and next year the fine option program will commence. The number of reports requested continues to grow, reflecting the professionaUsm of officers of the service and the high esteem in which they are held by the judiciary. This financial year will see the commencement of the fine option program. The program is an extension of the community service order scheme. Instead of being imprisfmed in default of their fine, offenders who are unable to pay a fine because of economic hardship may pay their debts to society by performing work in the community. Honourable members may have noted from the report of the Comptroller-General of Prisons for 1982-83 that, at any one time, approximately 8 per cent of the prison population are fine-defaulters. These are minor offenders whom the courts do not consider a danger to the community, since their imprisonment was not ordered at first instance; yet they represent roughly one-third of all admissions and discharges in the prison system. Further, because fine- defaulters are incarcerated for a short period they cannot benefit signUicantiy from the programs available in our prisons. The introduction of the fine option program will be a major benefit to those offenders, to the prison administration and to the community. The community service order scheme began in Febmary 1981. Offenders ordered by the courts to perform unpaid, supervised work under these orders—and, soon, under the fine option program as well—have provided more than 300000 hours of work for the community's benefit. More than 360 projects have been approved under the program and a recent independent evaluation, funded by the Research CouncU of the Australia Institute of Criminology, was highly positive in terms of the scheme's benefits to the community and the offender. The scheme has also been well received by the judiciary, and is highly cost- effective. The scheme is to be expanded to cater for the fine option program. Probation is supervision of offenders within the community. Those admitted to supervisiMi must comply with the conditions of their order. Failure to meet those conditions will resuh in further action by the court. Parole may be granted to a prisoner by the Parole Board or, in certain cases, by the Governor-in-Council, and is the release of a prisoner before expiration

Prisons Department The prison service in Queensland is the finest in the country. This is shown clearly in objective statistical collections. Opposition Members interjected. Mr MUNTZ: Opposhion members may argue otherwise, but the prison service in Queensland is the finest in Australia. Queensland has an excellent record of security and working conditions for officers, and probably the best accommodation for prisoners in the nation. Recent events should not be aUowed to detract honourable members from these facts. Prisons are inherently difficult to manage, and there will always be prisoners who attempt to escape and prisoners who are not content. But, the law-abiding tax-payers of Queensland, whom the Opposition does not seem to care about, have not funded prisons to the tune of $32,2m this year so that those who refuse to Uve by the rules in society can expect to continue to refuse to live by the rules in prison. Prisons exist and are funded by the Government for the protection of society and of our famiUes and our homes, and to give an opportumty for offenders to rehabilhate themselves. It is not possible for prisoners to be rehabilitated against their wiU. The prisoner must want to be better and he must be prepared to work at the opportunities made available to improve himself. Prisoners have committed offences against society. Some of the offences are callous and violent; some are calculated criminal actions. The dialogue between society and prisoners must take place at an adult level. At aU times the talking on our side must be honest and frank, and sometimes even blunt. A Minister with responsibility for prisons must adopt a no-nonsense, firm, but fair approach in dealing with prisoners. The courts administer justice in Queensland, but, once sentenced, a prisoner must face up to his shortcomings and accept the opportunity for positive change offered by the Prisons Department. These opportunities are being expanded and developed through long-term changes in the system. Legislation To implement the proposed changes, new legislation is needed. Many honourable members wUl be aware that the present Act and Regulations date back more than 20 years. Although amendments have been made periodically, it is essential that the legislative base of the prison service be completely updated. My officers have nearly completed a draft Bill and are to hold discussions with other departments. Before long, the Bill wiU be introduced into this CSiamber. It will be the most up-to-date prisons legislation in the nation, and I am sure that it will become the model for other States to follow. Departmental Review A complete review of the department's activities began in January of this year, A team of dedicated and professional people drawn from both inside and outside the Prisons Department, including union representatives, has spent 12 months investigating all areas of the department. The team has initiated major developments. This review has almost completed its data-gathering and recommendation stages, and recently a steering committee of senior officers was formed to oversee implementation of the team's recommendations. The team and the steering committee have my full support in the face of great pressure to abandon real change for short-term, patch-up schemes. One of the important things to come out of the review will be a reorganisation of the head office. My officers have asked the Public Service Board to create two additional assistant comptroller-general positions to separate the three functional areas of security, personnel and prisoner programs. Such a structure will seek to ensure maximum achievement and harmony within the prison environment. Staff Training A staff training college is to be built at Wacol to ensure that prison officers have the best training faciUties possible. The department will be recruiting speciaUsts to staff the college. The prison officer of the future wiU require and receive training in the complex areas of man-management, prison administration and associated fields, such as first aid, riot control, criminology and penal law. The college will begin operation in 1985, but in the Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 925

meantime my department is working to upgrade existing services. A TAFE course for prison officers has commenced and some staff have attended that course. Seminars and workshops for senior ranks have been held, and a small number of scholarships have been offered to enable full-time tertiary study. Well4rained officers are essential to the proper functioning of a prison.

Works Program Because pattems of crime and the profile of the prison inmate have changed, it is essential that prison accommodation be designed to meet the new demands being placed on prisons. Accordingly, a works program to take the department into the next century is being developed by an interdepartmental committee. The committee itself is an iimovation, and includes officers of the Works, Prisons, Welfare Services and Public Service Board Departments, Work is well under way in Townsville on the new medium-security prison, and the final stage of the women's prison has been completed. This works program is very important because, once a prison is buUt, it is there for a long time. We shaU be sure that what is done is of high quality, forward-looking and secure. The program is based on the premise that the prison environment is an extremely important factor in the rehabilitation process.

Prisoner Programs A wealth of work is already being done in the service to assist prisoners in theh eventual reintegration to society. This is a vital area which is expanding and developing. Oppor­ tunities for vocational training exist in the many workshops and at the farms. A number of prisoners are indentured as apprentices, and these experiences wUl stand them m good stead when they have completed their sentences. Educational opportunities provided range from basic readmg and writing skills through to doctorate degrees. Much of this is by correspondence, although a small number of prisoners are granted release to study. My appreciation is extended to those professional and volunteer educators who assist the department. A wide range of recreational activities, from arts and crafts to debating, yoga and reading, is available in all prisons. It is considered very important that prisoners learn to make con­ structive use of their time and that such skills are retained after their release. Sports con­ tinue to be very popular recreational pursuits. It is proposed to appoint an officer full time to co-ordinate all prisoner program activities. This senior position wUl ensure the continued development of such an essential component of a prisoner's reintegration to society after his or her release. At all times, the security of society, of prison officers and of the prisoners themselves is paramount. But security is only one part of the objective of the Prisons Department, which is the "secure and humane containment of prisoners" All Prisons Department activities stem from that one objective. Before moving on, I must express my appreciation to the men and women of the prison service. Queensland's excellent record in the prisons field is due largely to their skUful management of prisoners and their disciplined approach. They quickly contained the riot at the Brisbane Prison COmplex last month, minimising any danger to society and to the prisoners. They deserve our praise, not only over that episode, but also for their continued vigilance and dedication. To the Comptroller-General, Mr Mike Lewis, I give my thanks for his support.

Department of Children's Services The Department of QiUdren's Services offers a wide range of services to the famUies and children of Queensland, including counselling of families and individuals, juvenUe justice, corrective and protective programs, care of children apart from their famiUes and adoption. Desphe social and eccmomic changes in recent years, the family remains the basic unit of society and the best place for the development of children. As I have indicated, next year Queensland wUI celebrate the Year of the Family. The nnphasis of the year will be on families growing together, providing a happy, stable environ­ ment for both aduhs and children. That is the constant emphasis of the Department of Children's Services. 926 20 December 1983 Suppiy (EsCifnates)

In order to meet future challenges, the department has reviewed its legislative base. Wide-ranging community consultation has taken place and I am currently studying a draft of the BiU to replace the existing CSiUdren's Services Act. It is proposed to allow the BiU to lay on the table of the Parliament during the autumn session to enable study of the new provisions before enactment. The department has also been restmctured to provide decentralised services. Regional directors and district managers have been appointed and delegated substantia authority to ensure that the unique needs of each region and district are given fullest consideration. Two central divisions will continue to provide centralised services in the administrative and specialist fields. Family and Community Development The major direction of the department's diverse activities is in the provision of support for families in their communities. This is achieved partly through assisting non-Government agencies. Community projects such as Arana Regional Care Services and the Goodna Neighbourhood Centre, with the support of attached departmental officers, are developing self-help networks. The Social Workers Subsidy Scheme is a similar program, Mr R, J, Gibbs: Have you refinanced them? Mr MUNTZ: The refinancing of any project will be considered on its merits. It is hoped that the future will see more projects such as these developing family- centred, community-based services keeping families together. Juvenile Correction and Services to Young Persons in Conflict with the Law The new Children's Court complex is nearing completion. It will improve the administration of juvenile justice and ease problems caused by sharing the Sir Leslie Wilson Youth COntre where the court is presently located. The Sir Leslie Wilson Youth Centre wUI continue to operate as a facUity for certain chUdren remanded by the courts. Residential programs for children committed by the COurts to the care and control of the director will also be conducted there. The Westbrook Training Centre continues its successful record in the custodial rehabilitation of older male juvenile offenders, while the Cleveland Youth Ontre in TownsvUle assumes a simUar role in the northern region. A block of land has been purchased as the first step in estabUshing a remand and holding centre at Wacol to complement facilities at the Sir Leslie Wilson Youth Centre. Progressive non-custodial programs are also provided. The experimental program at "The Outlook", Boonah, assists young people to develop the skills and confidence to face the challenges of life. The introduction of greater suburban follow-up is being explored. The Proctor Program offers intensive relationship-focused training for adolescent girls who have been placed in the care and control of the director. Adoption and Fostering Adoption and foster care programs are other major responsibilities of the department. These programs aim to keep children, who are unable to reside with their own parents, in family care within the community or, in the case of adoption, in permanent family situations. Developments in the adoption area include special programs for placement of children traditionally regarded as hard to place. The Estimates provide for assistance to adopted children under the recent amendments to the Adoption of Children Act. Foster care continues to offer temporary care of children until they are returned to their own families or find permanent placement elsewhere. It is pleasing to note that fewer children enter the care and protection of the department these days. This is the result of the policy of supporting and strengthening famUies to avoid the break-up of the family unit wherever this is possible. Grants and Subsidies to Non-Government Organisations The department provides ongoing support to the non-Government welfare sector by grants and subsidies. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 927

In this year's Budget— (1) Relief payments have been increased by 10 per cent as from 18 December, A single person will be eligible for a payment of $18,95 per week and a husband and wife, $37,90, with an additional $8.60 for each dependent child. These increases will also apply to relief payments made through the Relief Assistance Branch and certain poUce stations. (2) Payments to licensed institutions have been increased by 10 per cent as from 18 December. The reserved bed rate is now $39.90 per week, and an occupied bed attracts payments of $45.95 and $52.25 for children under and over the age of 13 respectively. (3) The foster allowance has been increased by 10 per cent to a maximum of $60.25 per week as from 18 December. (4) The initial outfitting allowance has been increased to $143 for children under 13 and to $176 for children over 13 or attending secondary school. (5) Assistance to families has been increased to $16.95 per week per child. Grants totalling $65,000 have been made available for additional staffing of family day care schemes which offer short-term 24-hour care for children by supporting families in crisis situations. Small one-off grants to non-Government organisations totalUng $40,000 have been made available towards the expenses of instructors engaged in the training of welfare volunteers. Residential Care Services Both departmental and non-Governmental residential care programs are continually being refined to meet changing needs, such as the residential treatment and assessment being developed at Warilda, Wooloowin. Internal operational audit reports on residential care have been completed recently and the bulk of the recommendations is in the process of being implemented. Where these recommendations concern non-Government facilities, extensive consultatimis with the governing bodies are taking place.

Child Protection Reports of child abuse have continued to increase. Most notable has been the incidence of more serious physical abuse of children and the growing reported incidence of sexual abuse. Monitoring and treatment of the problem are carried out in co-operation whh police and hospital staff. SCAN teams play an important role in detecting and providing assistance for children and adults involved. The establishment of locally based SCAN teams in the Brisbane area is being mvestigated with a view to easing the pressure on present hospital-based teams and allowing community- based staff from the welfare, health and police fields to be more dhectly involved. Honourable members will, I hope, appreciate the hnportance of the work

Mr MUNTZ: I have met a significant percentage; approxunately 70 or 80 per cent. I also take this opportunity to express gratitude to my personal staff for the support that they have given me since assuming my responsibUities. I thank particularly my private secretary (Mr Joe Consoli), my press secretary (Mr Ted Latta), Miss Jenny Brown, the senior stenographer and the rest of my staff. To the director-general (Mr Peter Jones) and the other senior officers (Mr Alan Pettigrew, Mr Jack Macnamara and Mr Robert Plummer) I express my thanks for assisting in a smooth transition. Many other people provide advice through a number of consultative committees and many, many others give voluntary support in the community where it really counts. They share our goals of family and community development, and I look forward to a continuing relationship with all 6f these people. Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs is a vital component of the services which the Queensland Govemment offers to the people of Queensland. As I said earlier, I am proud to open this debate on behalf of the Government and I will be interested to hear the contributions of honourable members. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I inform honourable members that, on the Vote proposed, I wiU allow a full discussion on aU the Minister's departmental Estimates (COnsoUdated Revenue, Tmst and Special Funds, and Loan Fund Account). For the information of honourable members, I point out that the administrative acts of the department are open to debate, but the necessity for legislation and matters involving legislation cannot be discussed in COmmittee of Supply. Mr McELLIGOTT (TownsviUe) (4.34 p.m.): I suppose that of all the services covered by the Estimates, none is more difficult to assess in terms of dollars and cents than those of the Welfare Services Department. I note that approximately $75.5m is to be spent from consolidated revenue and I note, also, that it is approximately 9 per cent more than the expenditure last year to cover inflation. I therefore assume that services will continue to be provided as they have been before. But that assumption highlights the Opposition's concem that services will be provided only on the same basis as in the past, and that has been clearly shown to be deficient in so many ways. The annual report of the Department of Welfare Services for the year ended 30 June 1983 points out that the year under review was a very difficult year, with increasmg demands and limitations in both staffing and funding. The annual report points out that the department's resources had been stretched to the limit. I join with the Minister, therefore, in c

The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is far too much conversation in the Cliamber.

Mr McELLIGOTT: My words should be of importance to Government members. This does not create an environment in which the rehabilitation of the prisoner is likely to have a high priority. I am not able to say whh certainty that a shortage of manpower was a cause of the recent very serious riots at the Brisbane Prison COmplex, because the Minister will not give the Opposition any access to information about those riots or access to the prisoners or the officers. However, I suspect that relations between the officers and the prisoners would certainly be better if the officers were not subject to such stress in their jobs. I recall—I am sure that the Minister does, too—that prison officers went on strike only last year over this very matter. Because welfare generally relates to people and the time to talk to people, all members of this Commhtee wiU be horrified to know that in some cities m this State people needmg counsellmg from the Marriage Guidance Council have to wait from six to eight weeks for an interview. It does not need any depth of understandmg to appreciate that such a situation renders counselling virtually useless. People m crisis need help immediately. Again, the problem with the Queensland Marriage Guidance Council is a shortage of money. This year the Queensland Govemment has allocated $21,600 to that organisation, but h wUl take back somethmg over $14,000 m pay-roll tax on salaries of workers who are paid by the Ccmimonwealth. 930 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

Honourable members will well remember the sight that shocked all Queenslsmders earlier this year when the television program "Nationwide" drew attention to the imminent closure of the Brisbane Women's Refuge for the lack of a few thousand dollars. The Saiare House in Townsville, which provides emergency accommodation for young people, is asked to provide 24-hour-per-day, seven-day-per-week service with msufficient fundmg. That means that the workers are working long hours and having inadequate time off. So the story goes on. Govemments m other States have seen the need for providuig adequate funds to keep these services operating. It is disappointing that the Queensland Government has not yet seen the need. I strongly suspect that the Govemment is not getting sufficient informatiwi about weffare needs right across the State. I do not intend any criticism of the officers by that comment, but I simply make the pomt that Queensland is a big State and that the requirements for welfare services vary between communities. There can be no other aspect of Government service that cries out for community participation more than the welfare area. I beUeve it to be absolutely essential that the machinery be estabUshed to feed in to the Govemment the thoughts of communities through regional consultative committees. Not only would the establishment of such committees ensure the provision of current advice to the Govemment, but their involvement in the policy-making process would add tremendously to the morale and enthusuism of the workers actually involved. The decentralisation of the Department of C^ldren's Services is to be commended. I also believe that greater use can be made of local authorities for the deUvery of services. A number of councils in Queensland are already heavily involved and they do a tremendous job. On the other hand, I am aware that many others are totally opposed to becoming involved because they do not see welfare as the function of local govemment, and many debates have taken place at local govemment conferences on the conflict between property-based services and the so-called people-based services. The main argument of those opposed to becoming involved is that they are concerned about committing rate-payers' funds for the purpose. Obviously, that objection disappears if the State is prepared to make additional funds available to them. The Minister has the job ahead of him, as I believe that there is an urgent need for a complete review of services right across the State. The first step is an understanding that the quality of people's lives improves through preventive counselling programs. The machinery needs to be put in place so that community problems can be foreseen and acted on before they arise and not after the damage has been done. With that in mind, I consider that h is essential that welfare agencies, along with schools and libraries, be established in new communities. Workers in the field would welcome a firm statement of Govemment poUcy so that they are always aware of the Government's aspirations and, at the other end of the scale, any Umitations that the Government wishes to place on the welfare program. I now mention just a few specific areas of concem to the Opposition. First of all, in regard to children's services—the Federal Govemment's entry into this field was the direct resuh of the perceived lack of services in real terms throughout AustraUa. Unfortunately, Federal funding has been reduced in recent years, which has meant that many existing programs are suffering. This is particularly so in Queensland, because, unlike the Ciovemments in some other States, the Queensland Govemment has been unwUUng to meet the shortfall. This is an area in need of urgent attention as more and more young children are subjected to abuse by parents and others. Again, the cry for help is urgent and immediate, but it is simply not good enough to cry out for more Federal funds. The State (jovemment repeatedly telk us that it is the low-tax State. If h is the low-tax State, it is because it does not provide these critical community services at the same level as do other States. After-school and vacation programs are another urgent necessity, and again there is Commonwealth funding to a variety of community-based organisations. The State Govern­ ment should add to the funding as many programs are struggling for survival. Society continues to be concemed at the incidence of juvenile crime, and it is these types of programs that should be at the forefront of the attempt to get the kids off the streets. We all know of the valuable work done by a large number of junior sporting organisations and the scouting and similar movements; but not aU kids fit into those organised environ­ ments. In fact, a large amount of work has to be done to establish the type of activhies that will keep young people occupied and interested. There are not nearly enough of these programs in Queensland, and those that do exist are strugglmg to survive. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 931

Again, local authorities can play a major part. The Townsville City Council conducts activities at four or five different venues, using funds provided by the Commonwealth. More councUs should become involved with active encouragement by the State. The Victorian Government, for example, will provide over $lm for vacation programs this year. Youth homelessness is a product of today's society and is a direct result, in my opinion, of the lack of preventive work in the community, Govemments have not funded neariy enough workers with youth to know what the kids were thinking and what society had ui store for them. Now that the problem is with us, we are not certain where to go. I believe that the Government's neglect of the Queensland Recreation COuncU over many years has been proof of this lack of concern and an example of poor planning. For as long as I can remember, the old National Fitness COuncil had to stmggle along with a grave shortage of funds, causing severe strains on its officers and volunteer workers. That organisation should have been the ears and eyes of the Government in respect of the recreational and leisure pursuits of our young people. The hard-working officers have been tied down to running fitness programs and camps for those who could pay, whereas the mainstream of young people went their own way without understanding or concern by the Government, Those programs that were developed were established under the umbreUa of various church organisations and, although I have no complaint about the church's involvement in youth affairs—in fact I applaud it—it nevertheless excludes a major proportion of the State's young population, I do applaud the establishment earlier this year of a Division of Youth Affairs, and I hope that adequate funding and Government encouragement will be given to it. The division should be encouraged to look beyond the traditional activities for youth to see just where the kids are and not only at where we would like them to be. Those kids who are sleeping out at night in the major towns and cities are the real tragedies of today. They do not need to be punished for failing to comply with the expectations of society. On the contrary, they need to be helped to develop a new life and to look forward to the future with confidence. They come typically from a background of family conflict and are generally unemployed. They lack many of the living skills that can come only from experience. They are therefore vulnerable to all sorts of antisocial activities. A vastly expanded program of youth refuges is essential if we are to teach these kids the skUls necessary to survive. Fortunately, in a number of areas, community groups are being established to provide help, and the State must respond to this need in the only practical way—^by providing funds and the trained personnel to ensure that they succeed. It bears repeating that the youth of the State deserve the support of government, and the State should ensure that it is always kept fully informed about the aspirations as well as the problems facing our young people. We must not assume, in a patemalistic manner, that those of us sitting in this Chamber or bureaucrats sitting at desks know what is best for the kids. We have to go to the kids and find out. Earlier in my speech I mentioned women's refuges. The Queensland Govemment's policy towards funding women's refuges is unjust, uncaring and unrealistic compared with that adopted in other States. In every other State refuges receive 100 per cent funding for operating costs. In Queensland, community-based committees must fund 12i per cent of operating costs and 25 per cent of capital costs. I have heard the absurd comment that these committees work better if they have something to work for. It is obvious that the type of service that they provide and the stressful environment in which they have to work is sufficient proof of their dedication, and they need and deserve the total support of the Govemment. It is pleasing to note from the Budget papers that the Commonwealth is making available approximately $640,000 to allow for the phasing in of award wages for workers in these refuges as well as for the expansion of existing services and the establishment of new ones, I find it extraordinary that workers providing such a service have not previously been paid award wages, although I know this to be true of many workers in the welfare- industry. Again, there is no mention of an expansion in the State Government's involvement with women's refuges, although the needs are obviously expanding. 932 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

I searched the Budget papers for new initiatives. The one that receives a great deal of attention is the concept of the Year of the Family. I suspect that the amount of $100,000 will fall far short of the actual amount needed. However, the Opposition supports the concept of the Year of the FamUy. It is disappointed that Aboriginal and ethnic com­ munities are not represented on the planning committee. The only other new incentives that have been mentioned seem to suffer from a grave shortage of funds. I suspect that they are only gestures aimed at coming to grips with some of the problems to which I have referred. Finally, I want to refer again to the need for community involvement and the strengthen­ ing of that partnership between Government and the community. Ways need to be found to ensure that that army of voltuntary people who give so much of their time is made to jfeel wanted and involved. Welfare services cannot hope to function effectively unless a comprehensive and co-ordinated task force is established involving both Government and community organisations. Regretfully, the Estimates under consideration today show that there is stiU a long way to go, Mr CAHILL (Aspley) (4,52 p,m,): One of the outstanding characteristics of the twentieth century has been the increasing incidence of problems that can be clearly identified with the youth section of the population. Youth, as a group quite distinct from adults, with its own interests, norms and behavioural problems, has been an imjiortant social phenomenon. Music and other products are aimed particularly at the youth market. In those circum­ stances there is a rising number of problems pecuUar to that section which I feel this Committee should address. The problems could be divided into two distinct areas: criminal (breaking the law, petty crime, etc.) and civil (behavioural problems, particularly in a person's family; for example, disobedience, truancy and drug-taking). Obviously there must be some overlap in those areas. For instance, a person involved in drugs can become involved in niore serious criminal activity to raise funds for the drug-taking. Some examples of youth problems that should be considered are deUnquency, wanton destruction of property, disregard for normal rules, standards of behaviour, homelessness, leaving home because of either an unsatisfactory home Ufe or an unwilUngness to remain within the family envir­ onment, behavioural problems at school and at home, drug-taking, illicit sex and unwanted pregnancies. I shall bring to the attention of the Committee a definition of homelessness that all honourable members can consider. The source is C. Doherty's work "Homeless Youth— Resourcelessness and Recourselessness" pubUshed in C^anberra in September 1981, at pages 12 and 13, The definition states— "A person is homeless if, through lack of stable or adequate accommodation, or the absence of appropriate bonds with others, he or she is rendered in need of assistance or perceived to be in need of assistance or control," Let me deal with some of the causes. It is impossible to list every cause of homeless­ ness, but I should be able to identify some of the main ones. One cause is a poor family life. Report after report by Commonwealth and State agencies has cited poor family Ufe as the primary cause of youth problems. The National Committee for the Evaluation of the Youth Services Scheme, a scheme which provides accommodation for homeless youth, stated that one of the main causes of youth homelessness was the lack of adequate famUy support, care and attention. Moreover, other studies have related dmg abuse and social behavioural problems of young people—^problems which, sadly, often remain with them throughout their adult lives—to experiences such as sexual and emotional abuse within the family. A study of addicts attending Odyssey House in Victoria showed that 80 per cent of them suffered mental, physical and sexual abuse as children. With increasing pressure on famiUes, whh the break-down of the normal male-female dichotomy and the pressure on many parents for both to work, it is not surprising that neglect and abuse of children occur. Then there is the mass media and peer-group pressure. Young people are particularly susceptible to the life-styles portrayed in.many sections of the media. A great storm of materialistic propaganda beats down on their heads 24 hours a day. This influence, combined with normal peer-group pressure, creates confusion in many young people about the more traditional concepts of right and wrong. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 933

I turn now to unemployment. It is well known that, in times of recession, the least skUled are often the first to suffer. This has been particularly the case with our young people. Unemployment rates for 15-year-olds are almost 30 per cent. Many young people simply do not know what it is Uke to work. They have become used to relying on unemploy­ ment benefits for doing nothing. They are used to drifting. Although youth unemployment is partly the result of the recession, there are more fimdamental causes. The Bureau of Labour Market Research pointed out that high wages for young people have priced them out of work, and the increased incidence of married women in sections of the work-force has had the effect of stopping young school-leavers from obtaining jobs. The education system is also seen as a cause of youth problems, though very indirectly. Many young people see their courses as irrelevant to their perception of the real world. The education system itself is confused as to whether it is catering for academics or providing a genuine base for a working life. Many homeless young people have poor psychological health, but most are not suffering from any gross psychiatric disease. They are in some dreadful limbo land, isolated but not yet ready for independence. They cannot go back, but they are not yet ready to go forward. The role of the Department of Children's Services is vital to our homeless youth. It is directly involved with the needs of youth in several ways— 1. It is responsible for keeping children and famiUes together. 2. It is responsible for the protection of children from abuse, 3. It is responsible for and takes great care in intervening in the community to help correct behavioural problems, 4. It provides altemative care arrangements for children/youth whose families do not want to provide appropriate care. 5. It assists the justice system in dealing with youth offenders. 6. It helps offending youth towards a more constructive way of life, as well as providing facilities to protect society from serious offenders. The Department of Children's Services meets its responsibilities to delinquent youths through a number of specific programs, which I will mention in a moment. However, in passing, 1 refer to some of the comments of the honourable member for TownsviUe, who spoke about voluntary services. The sense of what he said was that the Government is not treating the voluntary sector as a genuine partner and devolving authority to it; rather, the voluntary sector is being used to provide welfare on the cheap, I think he said— words to that effect—^filling the gaps left by Government neglect. Mr Fouras: He is absolutely right. Mr CAHILL: The Estimates show that a large percentage of expenditure—and I say this for the benefit of the member for South Brisbane—is provided in the form of grants to the non-Government sector. There are several advisory bodies whh representatives from the voluntary sector; for example, the Family Advisory Commhtee and the Foster Parents Advisory Committee. There has been a devolution of responsibility to the non- Government sector; for example, the appointment of honorary officers. The new Family and Youth Services Bill will provide even greater delegation. It was claimed' that Queensland is spending less on welfare than other States; that the Grants Commission report in 1981 on State relativhies—that is, the share of Commonwealth income taxes—gave a whole range of figures showing that Quensland was underspending. That is the sense of what was said. The Opposhion simply does not understand the complex set of figures that has come its way. First, the Grants Commission was not Investigating the spending priorhies of the States, but rather State disabilities; that is, whether some States, because of population increases, geography and the basis of their economy—more reliant on primary industry—were less able to spend the same level as weahhier States. It has long been recognised that Queensland has certain disabilities not faced by the rich States such as New South Wales and Victoria, which are used by the Grants Commission, as all honourable members know, to compare the extent of Queensland's disabiUties. Mr Hamill interjected. 608S8—32 934 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

Mr CAHILL: I do not want to be rude to the member for Ipswich, because he is a very personable young man, but I really do not have time to accept his interjection. I will speak to him afterwards. Mr Hamill interjected. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I advise the honourable member for Ipswich that persistent interjections that do not evoke a response will not be tolerated by the Chair. Mr CAHILL: The Grants Commission report of 1981 stated that Queensland could not spend the same amounts as other States because it was not receiving a fair share of Common­ wealth tax revenue. The commission recommended that Queensland should be allocated an additional $130m, but that recommendation was not implemented. To understand fully Queensland's commitment to social-welfare spending, it is necessary to examine what proportion of State resources, as distinct from Commonwealth resources, are spent on welfare functions. By definition, welfare needs to include a wider range of services than those simply in the welfare services portfolio. The Bureau of Statistics makes a State by State comparison of social-welfare expendhure. It should be pointed out that expenditure on Queensland's free hospitals has been, since 1981, largely provided by State resources. A comparison on the basis of these figures shows that Queensland spends $31,20 per person on social welfare compared to $13.30 in New South Wales and $16,40 in Victoria, An analysis of the figures from the Commonwealth statistician shows the transactions of each State Government with its subsidiary authorities so that they may be used to indicate the comparative standing of the States in relation to various expenditure programs. Mr Fouras: Would you repeat that? Mr CAHILL: I suggest that one must never drop gems twice, I now tum to juvenUe justice. Presently, juvenile justice is administered by the Children's COurt, The existence of the court reflects the view that youth needs a specialist approach. The Children's Court handles both children in conflict with their families, such as children with behavioural problems, and children in conflict with the law. One of the main criticisms of the present system is the mixing of jurisdictions. A second criticism is that the court system is based too much on the welfare model in handling offenders, rather than on the justice model, and that too much power is left in the hands of welfare agencies, such as the Department of Children's Services, in deciding the fate of children. An excellent discussion of these points is contained in the family White Paper, which advocated a move to the justice model and the development of separate jurisdictions. That is contained in pages 20 to 27, both inclusive, of that document, which is available in the Parliamentary Libra/y, Its recommendations have been largely agreed to. Under existing arrangements, the Department of Children's Services has a very important role in appearing before the courts, in providing reports on particular cases, and in making recommendations as to whether chUdren should be retumed to families, placed with alternative families, such as foster parents, or placed in institutions. Specific mention should be made of the new Qiildren's COurt being built on Coronation Drive, which will provide for a more flexible structure in meeting the changing needs of the juvenile justice system. Mr Hooper: If I had known that Mrs Chapman was getting you a glass of water, I would have laced it for you. Mr CAHILL: That is a fine act from the member for Archerfield. Mr Hamill: It was an act of charity. Mr Hooper: (Christian charity. Mr CAHILL: In other places such an act would probably get him the clap he so richly deserves. I turn now to the care of children other than those in families. This group is made up primarily of those children who have certain behavioural problems or have suffered from child abuse. The Department of Children's Services tries, wherever possible, Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 935 to reunite a child with its famUy. A range of methods and programs is undertaken to help the family help itself. For example, there is counselling, and family support services such as the Homemaker Service, financial counselling, the emergency housekeeper service and the Family Support Services Program. Where these measures are considered inadequate to meet the needs of the child or to ensure safety of the child, alternative accommodation arrangements are provided. For instance, approximately $3.3m is provided in 1983-84 for allowances to foster parents. The Proctor Program provides short-term intensive placements of approximately eight weeks for single women. Girls are taught a wide range of social and domestic skills. Evaluation of the program has shown it to be effective in reducing the number of girls in institutions such as the Sir Leslie Wilson Youth Centre at Windsor, Residential care is provided by both the department and a large number—61 in all— of licensed non-Government institutions. The Estimates indicate the high costs of residential care in its various forms. The following statement on juvenile justice appears at page 16 of the ALP's welfare policy document— ". there are no community based alternatives to institutionalising a child " 1 am sure that there must have been a slip of the pen when that document was drawn up. The most important institutions run by the department are "Carramar" at Townsville, which provides programs for young people to promote their return to their families, and "Warilda" at Wooloowin, which is a receiving and assessment centre, "Warilda" has eight self-contained family units where families can live together and leam to develop new social skills. An example of non-Govemment institutions is the splendid Boys Town at Beaudesert. There are 77 lads receiving care and comfort in that magnificent institution, and they are learning to become useful citizens. Family group homes are a special type of residential care deserving attention. They provide accommodation for a small number of children in a normal family-type environment. There are 37 family group homes. I recently had the pleasure of taking cheques from the Minister for two such homes in Aspley, "Nicklin" and "Treacher", run by the Uniting Church. A full list of all residential institutions appears at pages 31 to 33 of Appendix II to the department's annual report, Mr Davis interjected. Mr CAHILL: I am sure that a translator could be made available if some honourable members are unable to read the list. I tum now to juvenile corrective services. These services are for the more serious offenders, mosUy those who are in conflict with the law. The Department of Children's Services mns three main institutions for offenders of this type— Westbrook Training Centre (Toowoomba); Cleveland Youth Centre (Townsville); and Sir Leslie Wilson Youth Centre Westbrook, once a feared and terrible place, is located on a mral landholding. This juvenile correction faciUty for boys has become a model of its type. A wide range of activhies is now in place to help, rather than punish, boys. Education courses are mn in conjunction with a TAFE college, and Westbrook itself has a number of on-site activities such as woodwork, mechanical repairs, and farm activities. Established only three years ago, Cleveland is a juvenile correction facility for both girls and boys. Of the 168 admitted in 1982-83, 14 were giris. Cleveland seeks to promote the development of children while maintaining secure custody. The Sir Leslie Wilson Youth Centre has undergone a complete re-evaluatjon of hs operations. Programs now stress personal development and living skills with activities such as typing, art, drama, music, cooking, dressmaking, physical fitness, dancing, woodwork, motor mechanics and gymnastics. "The Outiook" at Boonah is used for special camping trips, and the local Communhy Youth Support Scheme has helped find jobs for some young people. 936 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

I have here some statistics issued by the Department of Social Work at the , which has done some work in this field. Unfortunately, I will not have time to go through them, but I wUl be happy to make them available to any honourable members who are interested. One cause of delinquency mentioned previously is homelessness. The department's main response to this is its Youth Services Scheme. It is a jointly funded and administered Commonwealth/State scheme and total expenditure for 1983-84 is $584,000—a 10 per cent increase over last year. The Youth Services Scheme provides— Refuge/hostel accommodation; Detached youth worker services; and Youth support services such as budget advice, counselling, legal advice, bond/rent subsidies, drug and alcohol advice. There are 15 separate projects; 11 run by community organisations and four by church-based groups. Unlike other youth employment schemes, the Youth Employment Support Scheme does not create short-term, artificial jobs. Instead, it helps sodaUy and educationally disadvantaged youths find permanent jobs. Firstly, the Department of Children's Services operates two centres from which it liaises with employers and uses people to find the right jobs. Secondly, grants of up to $4,000 a year are made to non-Govemment organisations for training and placement programs. To date, some 3 700 people have found permanent jobs. That has helped to break the vicious cycle of unemployment, dependency and delinquency that we all deplore. In the 1983 election, the National Party promised to expand the Youth Employment Support Scheme and, as always, it will live up to its promises. Young people are very much a concern of mine, the Minister, his officers, the Govemment and, I hope, this Parliament. It is obvious that, in the words of a popular song, we should all "Care for kids" Mr FOURAS (South Brisbane) (5.11 p.m.): After Ustening to the speech made by the member for Aspley, one would think that welfare services in Queensland are above excellence—that there was something phenomenal about them. He skited about the Homemaker Service, family counselling, family financial support and the PrOotor Program, I shall now examine some of those services. Queensland has only four proctors. They have been engaged in a pilot program for years; it is nothing more than a pretence about getting kids out of institutions. The Homemaker Service is a very weak, poor program. The programs work, but there is not enough depth to them; the department is not getting the resources for them. The statistics on welfare spending across Australia show that Queensland spends over 20 per cent less than the AustraUan average on children, over 60 per cent less on the aged and infirm. As the Opposition spokesman said, in 1980-81, according to the 1982 Grants Commission report, Queensland spent $23.7m less than the Australian average. Let us have no more of the evangelistic 2eal of the honourable member for Aspley, suggesting that Queensland is doing very weU. On the facts, it is not. The money provided in the Budget will not even keep pace with inflati(Hi. The shortfall wiU not be met and the crying needs will not be redressed. The Minister told us how excellent are his public servants in the Department of Welfare Services and what a wonderful job they are doing. I agree with him, but they work under difficult situations and decisions. For instance, the former Minister took to (Cabinet three recommendations about the regional directors. I also noted on a TV program that the first question asked, when promoting these people, was about which party they supported. I support the regionalisation of the department. One of the appointees was no more than a junior grade clerk, but he wUl be makmg decisions at a 1-13 level. The appointment was not appealable. On three occasions the former Minister, who must have been under some stress, took the matter to Cabinet and was knocked back until an appointee suitable to the National Party could be found. He was a member of the National Party. I wUl not name him. He was appointed with clerical experience but Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 937

wUl be taldng very dUficuh, onerous decisions about the future of children and famUies in his region. He has no professional training or background. That is the worst side of poUtical patronage. When such decisions are made, is it any wonder that morale is at a low ebb in certain sections of the department? The Mhiister has no social planning. His approach has been mainly on a preventive or bandaid basis. He has no developmental units. Whereas other welfare departments have 40 to 50 employees workhig on developmental programs to get away from the bandaid situation, Queensland has none at all. The research unh of your department is very poorly manned. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable member should address his remarks to the Chair. He has not looked at the Chair once during his speech. Mr FOURAS: I am sorry, Mr Row. I am happy to address the Chair, but I was looking at the timepiece. The State Government does not spend one cent towards the provision of child care services. In the early 1970s, the Federal Government developed programs for chUdren's services. In 1974-75, it provided $75m for programs in child care and vacation care for children. It recognised that a need had to be met by the community. Even though money was provided by the Federal Government for community-based child care programs, the Queensland Government did not ever get into the act. Therefore, Queensland has very Uttle community-based child care. South Australia and Victoria became involved in community-based child care programs but Queensland and New South Wales missed the boat. What is New South Wales doing now? It is funding approximately 400 community-based child care units from its own funds and adds to the funds provided by the Commonwealth Government, The Queensland Government, which skites about its concern for child care programs and about what it is doing for welfare, is not providing one cent of its own money for child care programs. The Family Day (3are Program, through which women care for other people's children as members of their own famUies, is very worth while. In Queensland it has taken much of the pressure from the child care services in the community of which there is a shortage. About 30 per cent of the work that people in the Family Day Care Program do comes from the Crisis Care Service and other Government agencies. The Crisis Care Service needs the help of the FamUy Day Care Program because it is lacking in resources. For the first time the Queensland Government has provided approximately $6,000 to support the Family Day Care Program. Before this Budget the Government relied on Commonwealth funds, as it does in other situations. Queensland is the only State that accepts Federal funds for after-hours vacation care programs, without matching those funds. The Government should not be skiting about the great job that it does. It has a reputation of accepting Commonwealth funds, using them, and taking credit for the benefits, but it does not add any money towards the programs. This demonstrates the miserly, uncaring and unjust funding approach adopted by the* Government. Concern has been expressed about juvenile crime. The Government should provide programs such as vacation care programs so that latchkey children, who have either one or both parents working, do not stay at home getting into trouble. However, not one cent is provided by the State Government towards this program whereas it provides funds that more than match the contribution made by the Federal Government for other programs. It is disgraceful that the State Govemment gives such a low priority to welfare services. I believe that society should be attempting to minimise social disadvantage. Whether this is done is the test of a true democratic society. If that test is applied, it cannot be said that the Queensland Govemment shows any tendency towards democratic government because it does not give a damn about people who are disadvantaged. It only cares about people who support the Bjelke-Petersen Foundation. The member for Aspley spoke at length about his concern for youth homelessness. Queensland has the lowest funding of any State in Australia towards programs for homeless youth. Queensland actually has 11 programs but Commonwealth funds have not always been matched by State Govemment funds in this area. 938 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

In years past, hundreds of thousands of dollars has been made available by the Common­ wealth for homeless youth programs, and that funding has not been matched by the State Government. Mr FitzGerald: Give us the percentage figures. Mr FOURAS: The figures are there. The honourable member should ask the Minister for them. All that the Queensland Government wUl do in relation to youth homelessness is provide hostels. It does nothing by way of providing medium-term and long-term accommodation for homeless youth. In New South Wales, programs such as Stretch a Family and Share a Family are funded by the State Government. Those programs allow children to be taken away from hostels or emergency accommodation and placed back in the community. In contrast, the Queensland Govemment funds no such programs. Certainly, Queensland has the Share House program in TownsvUle and other community programs; but they are funded by the Commonwealth Government and receive no money at all from this miserly, penny- pinching State Govemment. It does not give a damn about trying to minimise the effects of the problems. The honourable member for Aspley claimed that a good deal of money was spent on fostering. The fostering program in Queensland is run down and it lacks co-ordination. The department contains so few officers that assessments are not being done. The assessment procedures should be streamlined urgently, because many kids in institutions could be placed more suitably in foster care. Southern States have remand foster-care programs. If a child is picked up and placed on remand, he or she is placed in foster care. Further, the child can be given a probation order. Under that order the child can be placed in foster care. The programs implemented in the southern States are very good ones, yet the Queensland Govemment will not consider anything like them. In Queensland, people who are fostering are not being visited by child-care officers. They certainly are not being visited more frequently than once every 15 weeks. The Queens­ land fostering program suffers from a lack of co-ordination. The Government's performance in fostering is very poor indeed, I turn to juvenile justice. Like the honourable member for Aspley, I support the justice model. It is an ideal approach to adopt in trying to combat juvenile delinquency. There would not be one honourable member who, at some time in his life, has not done something that was deemed to be a delinquent act. However, children are being taken away from their families for committing acts that would not be considered criminal acts if they were committed by adults. For committing such minor acts, children are being institutionalised. That is appalling. Queensland contains a number of good homes, but there are not enough, certainly not in north Queensland. The Government is not making resources available to allow children who are placed under bonds or juvenile probation orders to visit attendance centres so that they can be taught social survival skills and to take their place in the community. The Government's delay in proceeding with the famUy welfare legislation is due solely to the lack of resources. Although it was promised in 1977, it has not been brought forward. All the alternatives that are available under the justice model require more resources than the Government is prepared to find for them. That is the problem. A simUar situation prevails in relation to women's refuges. Some women are battered and have to live with the threat of being battered again next week. Those women who have to put up with that style of life are being discriminated against because of ideological reasons. The problem is that the Govemment sees every family as being a nuclear family, one in which parents traditionally are caring and loving. It does not understand that in many families problems arise. The Govemment's policies penalise such families. The Govemment says to women's refuges that they must find $1 in every $8 before they are given the other $7. By saying that, the Govemment is discriminating against women's refuges. How in the name of justice can the Government do that? In every other State the Government funds the cost of maintaining women's refuges. In contrast the Queensland Government adopts a macabre and ridiculous atthude, and suggests that it is in the interests Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 939

of women's refuges to have to find $1 in every $8, What utter nonsense! What balderdash! The Government should be helping referral services. It should examine the women's informaticm switchboard in South Australia and the refuge referral service in Victoria, The Minister should examine those services to see what a great job they are doing there. He should return to Queensland and find the money that is needed to support the services that are vital. It is time that those resources were found. More half-way houses should be provided to reduce the overcrowding in refuges. Some women who have been belted go to a refuge only to find that it is full and that they must return to the environment from which they have run way. That is a shocking and disgraceful situation. The Minister made a great deal of reference to programs for the disabled. No State Government has done less than the Queensland Government to help the disabled. It has been mentioned that an information service wUl be provided. The International Year of Disabled Persons created an awareness for action so that disabled persons would obtain their fundamental rights of equality and fuller participation. What was the use of that when those persons are not given adequate health care and faciUties? Queensland gives less support than any other State for the voluntary self- help groups working with the disabled. It is time that the self-help groups and community- based services and resource centres that are working with and for the disabled were provided with funds. Where is the money for programs such as care for Mr Muntz: You just contradicted yourself. You said that the women's shelters do not need community organisations to support them; now you are saying that they do need community organisations to support them. Mr FOURAS: What I am saying is that there is a large amount of goodwUl in the community. Without the voluntary sector no rehabilitation programs for the disabled would be conducted in this State. The Minister knows that. It is time that the Government opened its purse-strings and found funds so that self-help groups could provide fair dinkum facilities. What choice has a mother, who looks after her severely handicapped child day in, day out and week in, week out, to obtain some respite? One State institution has eight beds. Another institution is conducted by some CathoUc nuns. A great job is being done in Victoria and New South Wales. The Government is not providing resources so that more community groups can give respite to the people who need it. It is time that the Government forgot about a rather superficial information service for disabled people and was fair dinkum about providing meaningful help in supporting community groups. The Minister stated that from 18 December the amount allocated to emergency relief would be increased by 10 per cent, A single person can now obtain $18,95, and a woman and her husband can obtain $37,90, An additional $8,60 is paid for each child. That is a joke. The only people who qualify for that emergency relief are those who are not receiving social security benefits. The Government spends less on emergency relief per capita than any other State. It is no good talking about providing all sorts of esoteric services for people when they cannot be given the basic needs of food and shelter. The New South Wales Government is spending in excess of $10m a year to provide that sort of emergency relief at the shopfront so that the people who need it can obtain it. One in four of. its workers is going out and providing that relief. The Government should not talk about conducting programs for children when famiUes are breaking down right in front of its eyes, I have seen people break down in my office, I know of an instance in which a woman went to a refuge and her husband went to a doss-house. It took them a week to find each other. That is a shocking indictment of the system. Less than $250,000 was spent on relief payments in Queensland. Increased services should be provided at the local level. The voluntary sector has a very important role to play, and there ought to be more co-ordination. Those bodies ought to be given funds so they can employ motivators, or whatever they might be called—professional people—^who are able to use the vast resources available within the community. The Government does not do that. For example, the Better Hearing Association, which is based in my electorate, is the only State branch not being funded by its State Government. It is doing a tremendous job for people with hearing problems. 940 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

Right across the board the Government, which skites about itself, stands indicted for being too mean, too unjust and too uncaring. It finds money only for developing the resources, for building bridges to Stradbroke Island and for looking after its friends. It does not care about the sociaUy disadvantaged. It is not concemed about minimising or mitigating theh problems. It gives them a very superficial look and will do as little as it can in providing resources for them. It is about time that the $30m of underspending in welfare services in this State was redressed. It could not be done in one year, but the time is overdue to begin a three-year program. (Time expired.) Mr LITTLEPROUD (Condamine) (5.31 p.m,): I rise to support the Minister in this debate on the Estimates for Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs. It is so easy for the Opposition to find fault with the Govemment's performance because it is using a false premise. The error in its case is that it compares ideals with realities. For a logical comparison, only like with like can be compared. Honourable members of the Opposition make the mistake of comparing their ideals with the realities of the Government's performance. This is not a logical comparison. The ideals of the Opposition are not confined by the constraints of financial capabilities. The Opposition's case would require infinite funding; the Government is operating with finite funds. Given the resources available—and these funds are increasing—the Govemment's Estimates provide for significant innovation and improvement. When the Opposition calls for a greater and greater funding for welfare, I become suspicious. A socialistic tactic to destroy democracy is to destroy the family unit. By creating a welfare State, the family unit is superseded. Opposition Members interjected. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable member for Cairns is interjecting from other than his usual place. There are too many interjections. I will not allow multiple interjections, I ask honourable members to return to their proper places if they wish to interject. Mr LITTLEPROUD: The Government realises that it must help those in need, but it must also be careful that it does not aid and abet socialistic dogma. I am well aware of the insidious intrusion of such socialistic tactics into a number of areas. For example, the taxation on lump-sum su(>erannuation will make retirees dependent upon annuity pensions that the Government can control by introducing legislation to control the funds. The result? The aged will be dependent upon the State. Secondly, the creation of a national health scheme makes everybody dependent upon the State for health services. Thirdly, the union movement's tactic of compulsory unionism results in the workers being controlled by the unions and the ALP. I tend to disregard the complete sincerity of the arguments of honourable members of the Opposition for I have a suspicion that their real intent is something more sinister. The greatest difference between the policies of the Govemment and the policies of the Opposition is the importance that the Govemment places on the family. The Minister is to be commended for declaring 1984 the Year of the Family. We can draw the analogy that the Govemment's support for the family is akin to preventive medicine. It is much better to prevent the sickness of homelessness, marriage break-up and abandoned children than to spend ever-increasing amounts on an ever-increasing number of victims of a sick society without trying to prevent the sickness itself. The positive approach of this Govemment in highlighting the value of a happy home life is a step in the right direction and is sure to be applauded by the majority of Queenslanders. In examining the Estimates of this portfolio, I am particularly impressed with the strong emphasis placed on youth. Queensland is the fastest growing State in Australia and it is important that the needs of all our young people are met. The Estimates of Welfare Services indicate that two very important principles underlie the area of youth affairs. The first of those principles is that the needs of all our youth, not just a select few, are being catered for. My colleague the member for Aspley has outlined the activities of the portfolio in helping young people in need of care or protection or who have broken the law. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 941

Those helping activities are essential and must be applauded and supported. But the needs of youth who do not transgress the law and whose families do manage to cope should not be forgotten. I am pleased to hear from the Minister that a step in co-ordinating all programs for a wide variety of youth needs has been made with the establishment of the Division of Youth within the Department of C3iildren's Services. The Minister has briefly outUned some of the programs being run by this new division. They deserve further highlighting. Foremost amongst these programs is the Youth Assistance Scheme, which was formerly administered by Chief Office of Welfare Services, but, as I said before, I strongly endorse the Minister's initiatives in having it placed within a specific unit dealing with youth. The Youth Assistance Scheme will provide some $868,966 in subsidies and grants to community groups for the capital costs for building facilities for youth recreation programs. Honourable members should be impressed by the wide range of groups assisted by these funds. They are in all parts of Queensland and cover a great diversity of interests. In a State as decentralised as Queensland, it is important that assistance of this type finds its way to both the major urban areas and the less populated regions. Another important scheme administered by the Division of Youth provides youth leadership training grants, which help youth organisations with the cost of conducting courses for youth leaders or of attending worthwhile seminars. Last financial year 46 groups benefited from the scheme. This year some $183,600 has been allocated to this scheme. The division also administers the Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme and the Outward Bound program and has played an active part in organising youth forms and camps. These programs are positive in their orientation and give assistance in fostering attitudes of teamwork, leadership and self-reUance in our young people. Certainly, the Government must assist those young people who need help and who suffer from social and economic hardship, and the division has a role to play here, too. As the Minister said, Queensland has developed the Youth Employment Support Scheme to help disadvantaged, unemployed youth find and keep jobs. Unlike the $300m or so squandered by the Federal ALP Government on short-term work programs, the Youth Employment Support Scheme, through the special counselling and follow-up activity done by officers of the Department of Children's Services, ensures that these disadvantaged young people keep their jobs. Indeed, this financial year grants to non-Government agencies under the Youth Employment Support Scheme will be increased by 50 per cent. I heartily commend the Minister for his statement to expand YESS from its present two centres to other areas throughout this State, This will be far more effective than the ALP proposals, made during the last election campaign, to levy employers for apprentices. The other area of assistance is through the Youth Support Services Scheme, Some $584,000 will be expended this year in providing grants to community organisations in helping homeless youth. This is a joint Commonwealth/State program that is funded on a fifty-fifty basis, and which meets one of the most distressing problems facmg our society today, that of youth homelessness and neglect. My colleague the member for Aspley has already given details about the importance of this scheme, but as a country- based member let me say that I am impressed by the way the scheme has sought to cover all areas of this vast State, The Queensland Government's co-operation with the Commonweahh also puts paid to the view often expressed by the Opposition and bleated by some academics at universities that (^eensland does not co-operate with the Federal Government and misses out on funds. This is not true. Where the Government believes it is in the interests of Queenslanders, full co-operation with the Commonwealth does occur. In addition to these positive programs carried out through the Division of Youth, mention should also be made of other sections of the portfolio that have an impact on youth. For instance, through the Queensland Recreation Council young people, as well as adults, have received the benefit of the 12 recreation camps throughout Queensland. This number of camps is the largest collection in any State authority in Australia and has the capacity to provide 1 800 places daily. I note with interest the 944 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

Honourable members will agree that if that represents the standard pace of the Minister's department, I am probably being over-optimistic in suggesting 25 years for a major review of the Act. As I see it, one of the problems is that in the ranks of the higher echelon of the Prisons Department, no-one can justly lay claim to the title of "penologist" That is the reason why the new Prisons Act, if and when we see it, will be a rehash of the 1958-74 Act, which itself was a revamp of the original Act of 1890. The present Act will be long remembered for its many anomalies and loop-holes. In the past 25 years, it has undergone numerous amendments designed to try to get it to work efficiently, but all to no avail. As a result, there has been a patchwork of amendments to amendments. Although the Mmister is new to the job, and not very bright, he must surely realise that the administration of the prisons for whiph he is responsible can be carried out efficiently and fairly only if his officers have the guide-lines so essential for correct prison administration, and that, of course, requires a modem prisons Act. Mr Davis interjected. Mr HOOPER: As the honourable member said, there have been no new regulations for ages. Despite the solemn warnings given to the Minister and his predecessors by other people and me that all was far froin well in the Queensland prison system, the wamings were studiously ignored. They were brushed aside as figments of the imagination. The circus at Boggo Road has been permitted to perform with the results that honourable members saw recently. The Minister should take the trouble to communicate with the rank and file prison officers at the Brisbane Prison, He would soon find out that it was the prisoners, and not the Government, who were the winners of recent troubles at the prison. The Minister and other members of the Govemment finished with egg all over their faces after the recent riots at the Brisbane Prison Complex. The Minister has openly stated, through the media, that he was completely satisfied with the manner in which the rioting was handled. For the Minister to have made such a stupid statement—^bearing in mind that he is a new Minister—indicates that he must have been smoking opium or some of Mr Lester's parthenium weed. The Minister will not find much support for his opinion in the lower ranks of the prison officers. The riots were badly handled from go to whoa and the blame should not be laid at the door of the subordinate officers but where it rightly belongs: fairly and squarely on the Minister and his advisers. When trouble first became apparent the prison officers should have been permitted— in fact, directed—by the Minister to take control and maintain order. Instead, they were restrained by the senior officers. The reason for that decision was that such action would only inflame the situation. That was the opinion of the chief superintendent and his underlings. What a load of codswallop! Such illogical reasoning should have no place in the minds of capable prison administrators. To allow such behaviour to continue is courting certahi disaster. The chief superintendent ehher controls the prison with the support of his subordinate officers or he permhs control to slip from his hands. If the latter happens, the prisoners take control and the penal system collapses. That was the case in the recent rioting at Brisbane Prison. The chief supermtendent did not enter the prison at the height of the rioting but issued directions from the safety of his office. I challenge the Minister to refute that statement when he makes his reply. Honourable members would agree that it is sheer stupidity on the part of the chief superintendent to restrain his officers from doing their duty on the ground that it would only inflame the situation. That proves my point that there is a need for an expert penologist. A penologist should be appointed with the utmost urgency. A Government Member: Who would you like it to be? Mr HOOPER: The honourable member for Redcliffe, if he is prepared to resign his seat. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 945

The only way in which the riotous situation at the prison could have been inflamed was by not permitting the officers to regain physical control. The rebellious prisoners took advantage of the lack of action on the part of the chief superintendent and his super­ intendents and embarked on their orgy of destmction. The prisoners had nothing to lose and they won the day. A large section of the prison was destroyed and it is only a matter of time before the rest is destroyed. I am tipping that there will be another riot at the Brisbane Prison early in the new year. A Government Member: Are you inciting a riot? Mr HOOPER: I am not inciting a riot. Another riot will be caused by the Minister's stupidity and his departmental officers' lack of expertise. Mr Stephan: Where do you get your information from? Mr HOOPER: I get it from many sources; I certainly would not get it from a dill like the honourable member for Gympie. If he was taken outside Gympie, he would be lost. One of the most disturbing features of the riots was that they highlight the structural weaknesses in what is supposed to be a solid, maximum security prison. I had been inside the prison before the former Minister illegally barred me from re-entering it. Government Members interjected. Mr HOOPER: I would go back in if the Government would let me. When I was there I noticed that the prison was badly designed and it is only a matter of time before somebody breaks out. During the riots, and subsequent to them, many theories were advanced as to the purpose of imprisonment. The theories ranged right across the spectrum from its being regarded as the Boggo Road Hilton to its functioning as a twentieth century Port Arthur. In this day and age, the purpose of imprisonment should be to place the violent and dangerous criminal in an area where he or she can be safely contained so that society is protected from his or her activities. Far too often in Queensland violent and dangerous criminals benefit from the advantages available in the Queensland prison system and the remedial class of prisoners is usually on the receiving end of harsh treatment. I have been a constant critic of the school of thought, which is currently in favour in Queensland, that all prisoners should be placed together. It is a ludicrous situation when young people are imprisoned with hardened criminals for short terms for such things as the non-payment of fines. The reasoning behind this backward thinking is that if these short-term prisoners were segregated, they would play up too much. It is considered that the influence of the older, long-term prisoners is needed to exercise some control over them. What rubbish! All that the present system does is make sure that a young person with a criminal bent gets a good criminal education while he is in prison, I am sure that, if there was complete segregation of the prisoners, the majority, who just want to serve their sentences and get out, would be isolated from the hardened prisoner who has nothing to lose by playing up. He could be kept under supervision. If that were to happen, prison riots would virtually become a thing of the past. What disturbed me was that in the aftermath of the recent riots much publicity was given to the role played by two prisoners who were serving life sentences. I know that many people were highly critical of the situation in which a couple of prisoners were dictating to prisoners and prison officers. However, it is a fact of life that in all prisons there are leaders—strong men, call them what you wUl. That has always been so, and I cannot see that the shuation will change. Mr Lee: You are a leader among your colleagues. Mr HOOPER: Of course I am a leader among men. The prisoners look to these leaders for advice, guidance and, in many instances, protection. The prison officers are realists and accept the situation, as long as the leaders do not step too far out of line. 946 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

All groups have their leaders. Even the National Party has its leader. Even though Mr Bjelke-Petersen is now in his dotage, he is still the National Party leader. That speaks volumes for the lack of ability in the National Party's ranks. It is led by a man who is in the early stages of senile decay. The CMAIRMAN: Order! I regard those comments as a reflection on the Premier as a member of this Qiamber. I ask the honourable member for Archerfield to whhdraw those comments. Mr HOOPER: I do not intend to argue, Mr Row, but, whh respect, I do not thmk that you can take a point of order on behalf of another member. However, I do not intend to argue with you. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I suggest that the words used by the honourable member are not acceptable to the Qiair. Mr HOOPER: Rather than incur your wrath, Mr Row, I will withdraw. As I was saying, I agree that aU groups have their leaders, but I can see the dangers of this practice in a prison, because the leaders should not be carrying out the duties of prison officers. The Minister and his advisers are doing virtually nothing about some of the gaol bosses who are virtually rimning the prisons. At first glance, the report of the COmptroUer-General of Prisons seems to be a glowing document of departmental achievements for the year just ended. However, things are not quite as rosy as they seem. On page 2 there is a glowing account of the introduction during the year under dis­ cussion of improved financial and accounting management. A revised Prisons Department manual incorporating changes in the financial management of the department is still in the pipeline, and the appointment of a budget officer to the accounting section is acclaimed hopefully as being a step in the right direction to stop the rot in that area. Present indications are that, with less than half the financial year gone, the Prisons Department's budget has been overspent and the accounts section of the department is floundering in the doldrums. The much-vaunted recent cut in staff overtime was a red herring. I challenge the Minister to refute my statement that overtime payments at Boggo Road prison have already reached an all-time high for the year. I hope that the Minister will not insult the inteUigence of honourable members by advancing the argument that that is due to the recent riots. He knows as well as I do that, although excessive numbers of prison officers were called on for extra duty during the riots, they served no useful purpose. They were kept on stand-by and did not advance beyond the front gate. As one of the causes of the recent riot was the food served at the prison, it would be interestmg to know the last time a qualified dietitian visited the prison to review the food and the provision of such things as fresh fmit, which should be available to prisoners at least twice a week. The Mmister, in his wisdom, also barred ministers of religion from visiting the prison to administer communion. That shows how hypocritical are the Premier's repeated claims that he heads a Christian, caring Government. I am surprised that members of the clergy have not kicked up a fuss. However, I suppose they realise that a protest to this National Party Government is fruitless, particularly if they do not pledge a tithe from their Sunday coUections to the Bjelke-Petersen Foundation. I now tum to the Parole Board, which leaves a lot to be desired. In fact, it operates virtuaUy as a Star Chamber. It presents a very scanty report to this Parliament, one that teUs members virtually nothing. Something should be done to break the stranglehold that some of the conservative people have on that board. The Parole Board never sees an applicant for parole. Recently I was told that an advisory committee was formed to visit applicants at the various prisons and to prepare a report as to the suitability of the prisoners for parole. I do not know what has been done about it. I realise that that committee was set up promptly and that the Minister has not had time to get round all of his deparments. However, probably his officers will advise him during the dinner recess of its formation. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 947

Trial judges, when sentencing persons to imprisonment, often recommend that the prisoner be considered for parole after serving a portion of that sentence. However, the Parole Board does not always adopt the judge's recommendation and, in many cases, refuses parole, I will outUne to the COmmittee some figures for the last two financial years. In the year ended 30 June 1982, 698 prisoners applied for parole; 652 of those prisoners were serving defmite sentences, and 46 were serving life; and 82 prisoners were recommended by the courts for parole consideration. In the year ended 30 June 1983, 655 prisoners applied for parole; 594 of those prisoners were serving definite sentences, and 61 were serving life; and 88 prisoners were recommended by the courts for parole consideration. In the year ended 30 June 1982, the Parole iBoard granted parole to 232 of the definite-sentence prisoners and recommended to the Governor in Council that five of the lifers be released on parole. In the year ended 30 June 1983, 216 of the definite-sentence prisoners were paroled, and it was recommended to the Govemor in Council that three of the lifers be paroled. In the year ended 30 June 1982, of the 82 prisoners recommended by the court for parole, the number released was 53 (64,6 per cent); the number refused was 14 (17 per cent); and the number under review was 15, In the year ended 30 June 1983, 88 prisoners were recommended by the courts for parole consideration. The number released was 37 (42 per cent); the number refused was 51 (56 per cent); and the number under review was 37. During 1981-82, 27 parole orders were canceUed, and 10 parolees were convicted of further offences and retumed to prison. During 1982-83, 12 parole orders were cancelled under section 65 of the Act, 12 parolees had orders suspended under section 64 and subsequently cancelled, 7 were suspended but were subsequently lifted, and 8 are still under consideration. At 30 June 1983, there were 393 prisoners on parole, compared with 375 in the previous year. Those figures show that, whereas the release rate is being maintained at around 33 per cent of applicants for parole, the number being paroled after recommendation by the courts has dropped from 64,6 per cent in 1981-82 to 42 per cent in 1982-83, In the same period, the refusal rate has risen from 17 per cent in 1981-82 to 56 per cent in 1982-83. It would seem that the Parole Board is not taking very much notice of the recommenda­ tions of the courts regarding parole, and I would be interested to know why. In conclusion, I would remind the Minister that the Prisons Department has been beset with a multitude of problems over the years. The answer is most certainly not the formation of committee after committee from within the department. It is obvious that, although the senior officers of his department may be efficient and loyal public servants, the complexities of prison administration are beyond them. The sooner they are replaced by a select and efficient board of qualified directors, the better for the prisons service. Such a board should have a quaUfied business manager to control the budget and at least two qualified penologists, with undeniable qualifications, to instil some semblance of man-management and prisoner-know-how into the custodial staff, from the chief superin­ tendent down to the newest recriut. There certainly does not seem to be much pro­ fessionalism in that sector at the moment, I suggest to the Minister that he come down from the rarefied air of the MLC Building, where snow jobs are prevalent, into the real world, and come to grips with the prison system and its problems. [Sitting suspended from 6.4 to 7.15 p.m.] Mrs HARVEY (Greenslopes) (7,15 p.m.): I endorse the ideas expressed by my colleague the member for COndamine that welfare must avoid falling into the socialist trap of dictating and promoting a need and then going about solving it. The most vital factor affecting our society's stability and compassion is the strength and abilhy of its most basic unit, the family, to cope with modern pressures. Those pressures come from so many areas—the work-place, the present economic and employment 948 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

situation, the lack of family emotional support owing to the change from the extended family through to the nuclear family, and so on. There are very few people, even members in this Chamber, who have not experienced some of those pressures. Tonight we are discussing the Estimates of Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs, which, through the various departments, including the Department of ChUdren's Services, plays a major role in helping families meet those pressures. Rising divorce statistics, increasing levels of reported child abuse cases, soaring youth delinquency and the growing isolation of the aged all reflect problems in the family. Those problems must be dealt with at the cause level rather than at the effect level. The Queensland Govemment's Department of Welfare Services believes in doing just that. The member for South Brisbane advocated, particularly in reference to the Government, that people should not use bandaid tactics; yet he asked for more and more institutions from the Government. He referred to the effect of the institutions. Honourable members know that institutions should be a last resort rather than a first resort. Although many persons are critical of the family, I think it is important to understand that married family life is alive and well in this country. Approximately 88 per cent of family units are of that type, and only 6 per cent are single-parent units. Marriage is just as popular as ever, with 94.6 per cent of adult Australians having been married at least once. The problem is obviously not the popularity of the traditional family unit but, rather, the capacity of that basic unit of society to meet the challenge of the 1980s. The approach adopted by the Department of Children's Services is to provide a network of supportive mechanisms that allows families to solve their own problems in their own way— I stress "their own" problems in "their own" way—and not have people dictating to them, suggesting where the problems might Ue, and in anticipation going about funding institutions that possibly are not necessary. A member of the Opposition suggested that the Govemment fund institutions that are not necessary. The problems that are experienced by people are dealt with by Department of Welfare Services through a range of direct services run by its own officers, by a partnership with a wide range of community-based organisations, and through the very way it conducts its programs to meet specific problems, such as child abuse or youth deUnquency. Wherever possible, it is the family that is at the centre of the department's work in the community. Some people may knock that pro-family view. Every time that term is mentioned in this Chamber, Opposition members make noises suggesting that it is very difficult to come to terms whh the idea of the family as a unit in itself. Before honourable members knock that view, they should listen to the following quote from Kehh Windshuttie's book on unemployment in AustraUa. Windshuttle pointed out that people lacking family Ufe and support mechanisms were "subjected to considerable stress". He pointed out that the "pro­ tective effects of marriage" could be seen in health indices, which showed that death rates for the divorced and unmarried were two to nine times higher than those for the married. Those differences were shown for stress-related causes of death, such as heart disease, suicide and motor car accidents. They are sobering statistics and clearly point to the fact that families need help when they ask for it, and deserve our fullest support. That is why these Estimates are so important. They clearly show the priority that has been given to assisting the family in Queensland—^not only families that meet some crisis but also general support to the vast silent majority whose problems never require direct assistance but who occasionally need to utiUse the excellent wide range of services now available in Queensland. First, let me outline some of the services offered and funded by the Department of Children's Services that were ignored by members on the other side. Crisis care provides 24-hour telephone counselling for families and chUdren in distress. Last year a total of 21 756 inquiries was made to crisis care on problems ranging from homelessness to emergency relief. The department also mns a system of family support, which assists families through concentrated counseUing and liaison with voluntary agencies by providing a stable environmrat for children. The Department of ChUdren's Services also runs the Homemaker Service, which provides families with emotional support and practical help in developing skills at home in basic management, finances and child care. That service is vital in our community. It helps people, on a one-to-one basis, ^ to come to terms with their individual problems. These may seem small problems to those on the Opposition benches, but help is vital to the people concemed; Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 949 yet no mention of it has been made by Opposition members, who are very quick to be negative about what is being done by the Govemment and do not bother to find out what is being done by the Government. Emergency care is provided for famiUes with inadequate resources to care for their children. Last year over 15 000 parents and dependants were helped in that way. That is another statistic overlooked on the other side. I am impressed l^ the assistance given to families through funding of a wide variety of community organisations. There are too many to mention, but the point is that this Cjovemment works for people. It does not increase the pressure on families by making added demands on them. The subsidy to the social worker scheme is an example of those programs. Funding in 1983-84 is $380,000, providing an extra five subsidies to non-Govemment organisations. The Department of Children's Services provides $52,0(X) to organisations to mn consumer credit counseUing. So many family problems are caused by lack of proper budgeting and making too many purchases (Hi hire-purchase. That counseUing service is a great help to those meeting such difficulties. I ought to mention that the Department of Qiildren's Services is responsible for administering the Commonwealth-funded Family Support Services Program, through which support is given to 10 projects throughout the State. Members opposite should note that the Government does co-operate with the Commonwealth when it is satisfied that the funding wiU be worth while. The member for South Brisbane has criticised the fact that women's refuges do not receive 100 per cent funding in this State and has tried to give the quite false impression that we do not care for women in crisis. I am extremely surprised that the member for Kurilpa, who says that she is constantly on the look-out for women's issues and expresses a deshe to help women with their own personal issues, has not bothered to speak in the welfare debate. Welfare concerns women more than any other sector of the community. This financial year $1,045,000 wiU be provided to 23 refuges and one rape crisis centre; so this area has not been overlooked. There is an increase in these Estimates, with two extra refuges being funded this year. Refuges are required to raise 12^ per cent of their recurrent needs from their own fund-raising activities. I see nothing wrong with that. That approach is adopted because it is important that the community become involved and under­ stand the unique problems facing women in those circumstances. It also allows Queensland to fund more refuges than some of the ALP States. For instance, Victoria has only 18 refuges. One issue deserves special consideration when discussing the family. Not only the parents and children but also the whole range of those involved, including the extended family, should be included in a discussion on the family. My electorate contains a high proportion of aged persons—some 22 per cent of the adult population. One of the main problems facing these people is isolation and loneliness. Elderly people throughout Australia are, sadly, no longer part of their famUies. Many have been pushed off into institutions or languish in high-rise units. The Federal Government must examine its spending of 86 per cent of its health funding, which amounts to $800m, on grants to institutions caring for the aged rather than on home-care-type services or incentives to help families care for aged relatives. The Federal Govemment must get away from the idea of institutions for the sake of institutions and get back to the idea of helping people as people, not as numbers to be sent to institutions. The Govemment demonstrates its caring attitude in dealing with this problem in precisely that manner by looking at people in the areas of their need as people. Because of the importance of the family, I am heartened to leam that the Minister has announced 1984 as the Year of the Family and that Cabinet has approved sufficient funding to make this exercise meaningful and valuable to the people of Queensland, In general terms, the aim of the year wiU be twofold. The first is to bring to attention those families that are managing well in today's difficult social and economic climate, A great deal is pubUshed in the media and elsewhere from various sectional groups who may or may not perceive themselves to be disadvantaged by certain legal or social conditions and who demand to have what they regard as their legitimate claims recognised. That vast, silent majority of people who make up the bulk of our population and who are managing to raise children to be decent citizens under what are often very difficuh conditions are not heard of, but they deserve the applause and encouragement of the community. 950 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

In the second place, the aim of the year is to identify the types of support needed by families to cope. Isolated famiUes, families in which both partners have to work and raise children, and young famUies are examples which spring to mind. One group presently neglected are the families in which one or both partners has or have been previously divorced. Contrary to popular belief the risk of divorces in these marriages is greater than first-married couples. Another area of particular concern, for which I have no statistics, is the multiple- partnered family. There seems to be an increasing number of women in our society who, for whatever reason, go through a number of casual or temporary liaisons with men. The children of these casual relationships are often perceived as competing with the mother's current partner for the affection of their mother. Some of these children are emotionally and physically abused by the current partner, but certainly most of the children are unhappy and unsure of themselves in their home environment. That is a serious problem that so far no-one from the Opposition benches has even bothered to mention. Children do not have the verbal sophistication to put their innermost feelings and hurts into words. Even if they did, who would want to Usten? Very often a child's unhappiness is expressed through acting out symptomatic behaviour, which can land them in trouble. Certainly the adult in contact with them may or may not have sufficient background knowledge of the family and psychological skills to recognise the behaviour as symptomatic acting out. An important outcome of the Year of the Family can be an understanding of the difficulties that these children face and, based on this understanding, the introduction of programs into our helping agencies to assist these children to live happier and more fulfilling lives. Surely that is more important than the willy-nilly construction of institutions in case they are needed. All these points are important because happy children in a stable environment grow up to be good and productive citizens. It is sobering to know that 61 per cent of divorces in this country involve children and that last year approximately 50 0(X) children were so affected. It is even more sobering to learn that the third major cause of violent death of pre-school children in Australia is child abuse, I am a great supporter of the family, and so is this Govemment, I see the Year of the Family as having the potential to accomplish a great deal, I commend the Minister on what he has already done, and I urge him to even greater efforts on behalf of the family, Mr WHITE (RedclUfe) (7,31 p,m,): It is whh a great deal of pleasure that I rise to speak to the Estimates of the Department of Welfare Services. I guess that there would be few members who have had the privilege I have had in recent years of having ministerial responsibiUty for this area of Government administration involving the daUy lives of so many people in our community, I take this opportunity to formally wish the new Minister every success in his portfolio. He is indeed privileged because he has with him in the Department of Welfare Services a group of men and women for whom I have the greatest admiration; a group of people who, in very many ways, are the unsung heroes who get out there and do the work. I am afraid to say that, under this Govemment, the Department of Welfare Services has generally been regarded as a junior portfolio. I think that is a matter for regret. To me it is a very important portfolio because it is, in a real sense, dealing with the have-nots, the pec^le who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in need of care and attention. I commend the initiatives that have taken place and those that are being planned. The department still has a long way to go. I am not an advocate of big Govemment; I never have been and I never will be. People should be helped to help themselves, and that is the basic philosophy of those people who are opposed to the Labor Party. In the social welfare area it is more abundantly clear than in many other areas of Government administration that there is a very clear ideological split between those people on my side of politics and those in the Labor Party. I do not say that in an attempt to be uncharitable towards the members of the Labor Party. They have a well-meaning motivation towards helping people, but the argument is about the way of going about h. Perhaps I could explain it by referring to my Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 951 colleague the member for Archerfield. He and I are weU known for having had differences of opinion over the years, but in his heart and in mine there is a willingness to try to help people. Mr Lee interjected. Mr WHITE: I think so. The member for Yeronga may be judging the member for Archerfield unfairly because, underneath the bravado and his well-known penchant for making wild allegations in the media, there is a certain affection for people, I well remember that one of his most famous allegations to the media was that a man had been almost burnt to death in the Brisbane Prison, Later, upon investigation, I discovered that the man had been burnt with a match. Tonight's subject of discussion is very important. As I said earlier, it is probably one of the most difficult areas of administration for any Government. No matter what the political colour of any Govemment, it has always found this to be an area that has provoked controversy and difficulty. I have a great deal of sympathy for those working in the welfare area. I place on record my thanks to them. I mentioned particularly people such as the Director-General (Peter Jones) and his two deputies Alan Pettigrew and Jack McNamara. I thank also the people who were tremendously helpful in restructuring the department, people such as John White, Keith Hamburger and Robert Plummer, who, I notice, is here tonight. I convey to them my deepest appreciation. The challenge for the Parliament and the Government is to deal with an escalating welfare problem in the community when the State does not have unlimited resources. The problem can be tackled only by a concerted effort, with the Govemment working in conjunction with the community agencies and, through them, helping people to help themselves. Over the years, what may be called the cargo cult or the hand-out syndrome has developed, I do not say that with any degree of insensitivity for those in need. Many people need help. The Government must take the community organisations more seriously. When I was privileged to be the Minister, I certainly made a start. I hope that the new Minister wiU carry on the work. A clear way of doing that is to direct resources towards the community-based organisations. In that way, the job will be done better, with sensitivhy and at the grassroots level. Decentralisation of the department is very important. I felt very strongly about it, as did the senior officers of the department. We all agreed on the importance of devolving the authority and responsibUity for the departments at the regional level. The Department of Children's Services has seen the completion of the job in terms of the regional structure. Throughout the State there are six regional areas. The people of the north and the west are entitled to a better deal. They are entitled to a great deal of understanding because of the tyranny of distance. If anything was absolutely ridiculous, it was people in Mt Isa, Cairns and Townsville suffering the iniquity of having to send paperwork to Brisbane to get a decision made. Changes have taken place. I encourage the Minister and his department to push on with the work and to let officers such as Peter Pearce, who is based at TownsvUle, Ruth Matchett in Rockhampton, and the other regional directors, get on and make the decisions. They have the competency and the understanding that is needed, and they are working at the grassroots level. An effort has been made to restructure the department. The infrastructure is there. It is now a matter of pressing on with the job. I am very pleased with the estabUshment of the Division of Youth Affairs, which has been referred to tonight. If the honourable member who criticised the Queensland Prisons Department is serious, I suggest that he get into his motor vehicle and travel south to look at the gigantic problems confronting the prison administrators of this nation. He should go to New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia to see the great difficulties being experienced. It is very easy to be a critic; but it is not easy to accept responsibility and be faced with hard reaUty. Over the past 26 years, the Government, despite its critics, has done a reasonable job in the prisons area. I do not say that in the sense that there is no room for 952 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

improvement, but certainly in the knowledge of the Govemment's commitment to the redevelopment of infrastructure with facilities, the presentation of food and accommodation. There is a long way to go. I urge the Minister for Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs and his department to press on with the new Family and Youth Services Bill, which is very dear to my heart. The whole thrust of the Bill is to support the family and to provide services at the grassroots level for people in need. When I first became Minister in charge of this portfolio, I used the analogy that it was like standing at the bottom of a cliff trying to put the pieces together. Fences must be built at the top of the cliff, and an attempt must be made to help people before they reach the stage at which, unfortunately, they fall into a great deal of difficulty. I am pleased to see that the Minister and the Government elected to go ahead with the Year of the Family proposal that I put forward some time ago. It is time that the family was concentrated on and supported. I am delighted to note that the Youth Emergency Support Scheme has helped approximately 3 700 young people. Through that program, the Department of Children's Services has taken those children-^they are not from affluent families: they are children of whom nobody wants to take any notice and who some people believe are impossible to place—and assisted them. Additional money has been allocated in the Budget for that program. Many honourable members will remember the hearty debates that took place in this Chamber on the adoption legislation. That legislation was passed, and I hope that the Minister and his department will move quickly on it to help people who have suffered because of legislative difficulties. The establishment of a tribunal to deal with legitimate disputes about the decisions of the department is terribly important. People should be given an opportunity to appeal. The question of dispensing with consent in adoption matters has been well canvassed. Many fair-minded people believe that, in special circumstances, the future of children would be well served by overriding the wishes of the natural mother. The development of four adoption lists wiU do much to expedite adoption procedures. Nobody would be more pleased than I am by the Government's decision to upgrade the status of migrant and ethnic affairs. Many people who have migrated to Queensland have felt that the Government has not been sensitive to their needs, and that upgrading is a move in the right direction. The establishment of the Queensland Migrant Advisory Committee, under the chairmanship of Keith Hamburger, was also a move in the right direction. It was established when I was the Minister in charge of this portfolio. I am pleased to see that the development of Yungaba as a major centre for migrant and ethnic affairs in Queensland will be continued. The Ethnic Community Council and the interpreting and translating unit are based there. Earlier tonight, the Minister referred to 4EB radio. I hope that that also will find a base at Yungaba, which will mean that there will be one central area where the migrant community can come together. I was interested to learn that the first stage of the history of migration to Queensland has been published. It is titled "Courage and Hope". Of course, it is just the beginning. There must be, for posterity, a detailed record of the history and development of this State, with emphasis on the migrant groups that came to Queensland over a great many years. I hope that the department will press on with that project, because a major reference point is needed for the community and in particular for the historians and students who, in future, will want to study what happened in the development of this State. The Minister referred to the Disabled Persons' Service, which was established during my administration as a direct consequence of the International Year of Disabled Persons. I am pleased that the service is expanding, I hope that it goes from strength to strength. If there was one thing that came out of lYDP, it was that the disabled people themselves said to the Government, "We do not want to be patronised; we want to be part of the broader community and we want to be mtegrated into society generally." Since that time, a record number of disabled people have entered the public service in permanent positions. The decision taken by the Government to create initially supemumerary positions was a good decision. It gave encouragement and impetus to many people to take on a career in the Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 953 public service. That move has been followed in the private sector. So, today, many disabled people are working productively and are demonstrating to the rest of the community that they can do a job not only as well as but in many cases better than a large number of other people. The Welfare Services portfolio is a diverse one and covers a wide range of responsibilities that a member cannot traverse totally in 20 minutes. Therefore, I want to refer briefly to the Queensland Recreation Council, which followed on from the National Fitness Council. I guess that, as its name itmplies, the National Fitness COuncil was an anachronism. With the development of camps throughout the State beside lakes and at beaches, magnificent facilities were made avaUable to people so that they could spend a wonderful holiday or have a leaming experience at low cost. Approximately a quarter of a million camper days have been spent at those camps. I refer honourable members to the annual report of the Queensland Recreation CouncU. Under Alan Pettigrew and Barry Nielsen and their team, the council has done a tremendous job. Reference was made earlier to fitness, I notice that in recent times the Health Department has been trying to buy into this activity, I hope that its predatory nature is restrained, because it has enough trouble in coping with what it already has on its plate. Recreation and fitness are legitimate responsibilities of the Queensland Recreation CouncU, which has the expertise to administer them. It would be a shame if the predatory raids by the Health Department were allowed to continue. The "Be Active—Stay Alive " program has been very successful and it has been well accepted by industry and commerce, I know that all honourable members are familiar with FREEPS, so I shall not elaborate on that aspect. On the corrective side of the portfolio, I mention particularly community service orders. They have proved to be a great success, I understand that more than 2000 individuals have been placed under community service orders since I had the pleasure of introducing them in March 1981, Over the intervening period, approximately 260000 hours have been worked in the community helping people. The fine option program, to which the Minister referred, is to be welcomed. I look forward to its introduction. It will be a very humane and practical way of dealing with offenders who, because of their economic circumstances, simply cannot pay a fine. I pay tribute to Jay Perkins for the work that he and his officers have done in that area. There is no greater area of challenge for any Govemment than prisons. It is an area that must be administered with a degree of firmness and fahness. Authoritarian, extreme attitudes will do no good in the prisons. An attitude of understanding of the needs of people in prisons is required. The reality that sooner or later prisoners will be released must be faced. There is no better way to ensure the security of the prisons than by making sure that those people who are incarcerated are actively and positively engaged in activities. The development of rehabilitation programs is very important, (Time expired.) Mr LINGARD (Fassifern) (7.51 p,m,): I wish to refer specifically to the Prisons Department section of the Estimates, I do not want to try to copy the member for Archerfield's self-righteous approach of throwing the bucket at the Prisons Department officials and the Minister for Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs, Although he can be sometimes entertaining in public, honourable members tire of his grandstanding on occasions. Like an experienced poUtician, he espouses the theory of human rights for all prisoners and then covers himself by promoting the policy of isolating violent and unco-operative prisoners. That, as he knows, is Govemment policy, but as soon as that isolation of any prisoner occurs, the honourable member speaks of victimisation and lack of human rights. Clearly or, as in this case, quite obviously, the member for Archerfield and other Opposition members offer no suggestions on how special prisoners should be treated in isolation. The general public is now aware of the support that the leaders of the public service give to the Queensland Government. Those leaders know that they need the support of a strong Govemment if they are to administer control and discipline. The directors of the departments know that they will be supported by the Premier and Treasurer. 954 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

The great support of the Premier and Treasurer and the Deputy Premier and Minister Assisting the Treasurer was evident during the last prison disturbances. That strength, which supported the dedicated attitude of departmental officials and personnel at the prisons, saw the riots quelled, prisoners punished and a stern reminder to everyone that riots and disturbances are not the way to change the law in this State. In the last election the majority of Queenslanders showed that they want strong care, strong control and good discipline in society. People in administrative positions who are dealing with aspects of control must have the backing of a strong Govemment. Fortunately that is what Queensland has. People within the Prisons Department have already said to me that they are worried about the new influence appearing in the Labor Party Opposition. Everyone respects human rights and the need for every person to retain his human dignity, but people such as Terry O'Gorman go too far; so do those persons belonging to the Prisoners Action Group. Being sent to prison must be seen as a deterrent to disobeying the laws of society. Whilst maintaining human dignity, a period in prison must not be seen as being more desirable than facing the traumas and hardships of life. The concem about some new Opposition members is their being a mouthpiece for groups such as the Labor Lawyers Association and groups with radical opinions. The trouble with the Opposition is that it does not have anyone, to my knowledge, who has had experience in conducting a big business or big organisation or had any knowledge of how to lead large groups of people. It is a group of principals of on&-teacher schools, presidents of the Labor Lawyers Association, collectors of trade union fees or former professional boxers still mnning round looking for fights. Some members of the Opposhion remind me of prisoners. They work in a beautiful building, they receive delicious food and enjoy excellent conditions, and still they have to argue with each other and get into fights, I commend to everyone the annual report of the COmptroUer-General of Prisons, because it outlines the services provided to prisoners and the new ideas, which in the long term will have a profound impact on the organisation and policies of the Prisons Department, Regardless of isolated incidents, the fact remains that Queensland is regarded as having the best prison system in Australia, First we have the lowest level of escapes. An Opposition Member interjected. Mr LINGARD: That member's idea of gaol is that it is 10 squares past "Go" Like all prisoners, he expects to get his $200 as he goes to prison and then to get a free pass out. This financial year there has been an escape from a New South Wales prison every two days. There has been only one escape in (Queensland since July, compared whh 94 in New South Wales. Because of foresight on the part of this Govemment, significant resources have been devoted to improving both the standard of accommodation for prisoners and facilities for their use. Last year. Stage III of the female prison was opened and provides excellent accommodation, FaciUties such as adequate room for recreation and exercise are now avaUable. Mr Hooper: Do you want to debate the women's prison? Mr LINGARD: The member for Archerfield would promote mixed prisons for men, but not for women. Most importantly, segregation of maximum, medium and minunum security prisoners will more easily be achieved. It is important to understand that Queensland has several prison farms. They are situated at Numinbah, Palen Creek, Wacol, Woodford and Rockhampton. At those farms, considerable attention has been given to involving prisoners in farming and vocational activities. Indeed, as an example, the Palen Creek farm has cattle and a piggery. As well as dairy cattle, beef cattle are now being kept. Last year $9,000 revenue was raised from those activities. That prison is m my electorate. Recently, my wife and I were given a tour of the prison. We were amazed to find prisoners in charge of the administration of finance, the stores and the kitchen, and mnning a very successful butchery. Their sleeping quarters were single rooms, which seemed to have no supervision. Prisoners were accepting complete Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 955 responsibiUty in the workshops for fitting and turning, spray-painting and mechanics. The dairy, piggery and horse stables were as efficiently cleaned as anyone could expect. The prisoners were growing their own vegetables and providing vegetables for Meals on Wheels. There was no supervision of visitors, who were allowed to meet prisoners in a picnic area just inside the front gate. I was amazed that only three escapes have been recorded at Palen Creek—yet the Opposition has the cheek to talk about the heavy-handed approach of the Government, saying that it would restore human dignity. Prisoners at the Rockhampton prison are involved in growing fodder crops and in running a dairy stud. Extensive improvements are being made to irrigation equipment and other farming utensils. The point I must stress is that Queensland has none of the overcrowding and absolutely appalling facilities that exist in the southern States of Victoria and New South Wales. Priority has been given to the prison sector. Unfortunately, recent damage to the Brisbane Prison Complex will mean extensive rebuilding, and prevent, because of the costs involved, the provision of other facilities that would be so beneficial to prisoners. Thirdly, the prison system in this State must be commended for the extensive range of programs that have been developed to help prisoners retum to society and lead worthwhUe lives. For instance, an extensive education program for prisoners has been developed to improve prisoners' work and social and basic intellectual skills. Formal educational programs include remedial, primary, secondary and tertiary levels of studies. It is important to appreciate that many prisoners do not have basic reading and wrhing skills and considerable attention is being given to this problem. Trade training is also provided for prisoners indentured as apprentices in the prison manufacturing industry. There are also extensive vocational training schemes in areas such as carpentry, metal work, painting and primary industries. An important reform has been the development of the Release to Work Hostel at Kennigo Street, which allows prisoners to gain employment outside the prison while continuing to serve their terms. Its social advantages in allowing prisoners to readjust to normal Ufe and to develop regular work pattems have been enormous. For the Prisons Department the release-to-work program has reduced by 50 per cent the cost of maintaining a prisoner, and also reduced the reliance by the prisoner's family on welfare assistance. Naturally, quite strict provisions have to be met for prisoners to be put on this program, but the point is that it is one of the many positive programs being financed by the Estimates being debated tonight. Another important reform is occurring at the prisons. It does not show up as an expendhure-Une item in the Estimates, but it is an ongoing activity. I refer to the review of the department and improvements in staff training. Unfortunately, the Opposition, in criticising the prison system, always wants better and better conditions for prisoners, but conveniently forgets about the complexity of miming a prison service and the need to provide proper assistance to prison officers. The way to helping prisoners is partly through improving the skills of prison officers. Following a review of welfare services, the Prisons I>epartment is being restmctured and further investigations are under way, with the assistance of the prison officers, to improve the management system. I commend the Minister for his initiatives in moving to establish a special Staff Training College at Wacol and in organising courses for officers at TAFE colleges. There is no doubt that the $33,2m in expenditure for prisons is being weU spent, is giving priority to the right areas, and is ensuring that (Queensland continues to have the best prison system in Australia, A necessary adjunct to the prison system is the parole scheme, which aUows certain prisoners to leave prison before their terms have expired. Parole is decided by an independent body, the Parole Board, and is administered by the Probation and Parole Service. I am pleased that an additional nine officers and five stenographers wiU be appointed in 1983-84. The member for Archerfield (Mr Hooper) made no reference to that. During the last financial year, 219 prisoners were paroled. Only 24 of these had their paroles canceUed, indicating the success of the Parole Board's procedures in selecting parolees. The Probation and Parole Service is also responsible, through its 16 centres, for supervising the 40(X) offenders who have been placed on probation by the courts. 956 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

An important innovation in this area is the community service order scheme. The Minister has already outlined the success of this scheme and, with the introduction of the fine option program next year, I believe that Queensland has developed a system that administers firm, but fair justice and, at the same time, reduces stress on the State's prison system. I want to refer also to the issue of juvenile crime. As former headmaster of Kingston State High School, I have seen all too clearly how minor offences committed by juveniles can, if they go unchecked, cause young people to drift into a life of social disobedience and human waste. Juvenile corrections and services to those young people in conffict with the law come under the responsibility of the Department of Children's Services. There is an over- eagerness by the Opposition, and some of the sensational sections of the media, to paint Queensland's juvenile correcticm programs and institutions as backward and 19th century in their practice. The State's juvenile justice system is well on the way to becoming a model for other States. In recent years such institutions as the Westbrook Training COntre have been dramatically changed to provide an atmosphere for rehabilitation rather than a place of stiffing incarceration. It is important to stress that fewer and fewer children are being held in institutions by the department. This reflects the department's wUlingness to use altemative methods of care such as foster parents and family group homes. I note that this year $3.3m is being provided for foster parents and 37 family group homes are being supported. In my electorate of Fassifern, I am particularly proud of the fact that Boys Town receives considerable funding from the Department of ChUdren's Services. The Estimates indicate that $104,000 is being provided this year. I commend Brother Paul and his staff for their work, and also John Clark, my Liberal opponent at the last election, who is president of the association. Also in my electorate is "The Outlook", located at Boonah. This facility offers a wide range of programs designed to rebuild self-esteem, promote participation and improve the general outlook of the many young people who come under the care and protection of the department. Activities include horse-riding, canoeing, rock-cUmbing and camping. The dedication of the staff in making this facility work deserves special mention. The people of Queensland are proud of the State's prison system. Generally, the public accepts that the system is efficient and works well. It is unfortunate that the Opposition, playing its very important role, refers to isolated, specific instances in an attempt to degrade the system as a whole. Fortunately, the Government and the Prisons Department have catered for that attitude, and I commend the department on the establishment of the Prisons Review COmmittee in Febmary of this year. The committee consists of five full-time and two part-time officers who canvass opinions from prisoners, staff and interested unions with the idea of continuaUy upgrading the prison services. The review team has already been responsible for better training programs for prison officers, computerisation programs and educational programs for prisoners. A major review of the Prisons Act and prison regulations will be carried out. The Prisons Department and the Department of Welfare Services are doing an excellent job, and these Estimates show their obvious determination to carry out innovations and special projects. I congratulate everyone concerned and give special congratulations to the Minister for Welfare and Ethnic Affahs, who has only recently taken on that responsibiUty, and to the officers of his departments. Mr COMBEN (Windsor) (8,5 p,m,): Contrary to the assertions and aUegations of the member for Fassifern concerning the role of probation services and community service organisations, there can in fact be few other areas covered by the Estimates debated by this Committee in which the penny-pinching distortions and false economies of the present Government are better shown that in the area of prisons and community service orders. With only a small increase in spending on the probation service to increase hs size and efficiency and so enable it to accept a higher number of community service orders, a saving of the order of approximately $5m could be made from the present prison costs. In spite of such a saving, the Queensland Govemment attempts to penny-pinch on the Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 957 salaries of a smaU number of probation officers. This leads to unhealthy, overcrowded prisons and the problems recently seen at Brisbane Prison. But, more importantly, it is presently leading to near revolt in the parole service by officers who entered the service as a vocation but are now being asked to carry work-loads twice as heavy as those recom­ mended by Cabinet itself. The 1982 report of the Comptroller-General of Prisons showed that the cost of maintaining a single prisoner for a year was $17,431. As no more recent figures are available, I suggest that the present cost is approximately $20,0(X), and that is without the hidden cost of a person perhaps being taken out of the work-force or a spouse having to obtain some form of Commonwealth social security. Members should compare that very high financial cost with the far lower cost of putting a person on probation or on a community service order, which in 1982 was stated to be $621 per person and which may, for the purpose of debate, today be estimated to be in the vicinity of $1,000. It then becomes apparent that the tax-paying community should be promoting probation and community service orders wherever possible as an altemative to gaol options. The cost of a prison term to the individual offender is also immense and should be taken into account. A prisoner's domestic life and that of his family are dismpted. In many instances it is difficult for a prisoner to be resettled in the community from which he has been forcibly removed. Prison brings the prisoner into contact with more serious offenders. More serious antisocial behaviour may then develop. In the case of many crimes and many offenders, imprisonment may be the only practicable or appropriate course of action. Certainly ALP policy clearly recognises that when it states— "The Australian Labor Party accepts imprisonment as necessary for the protection of society." But it goes on to say that imprisonment should be the last resort and that alternatives to imprisonment should be used as extensively as possible. I wUUngly quote from the policy document of the ALP because, as I have sat is this Assembly and Ustended to some of the new Government members, I have sometimes thought that they were quoting from ALP documents, I sometimes wonder whether any of them have any grounding in the party of which they are members, because some of them certainly do not know of its past practices and its low principles. As tax-payers, we should therefore, from both a financial and humanitarian point of view, seek alternatvies to imprisonment for the reasons I have just outlined. That was recognised by the Government when it introduced the Community Service Order Scheme in March 1981, as the then Minister for Welfare (Mr Whhe) confimed, and was wrongly stated to be earlier that year by the present Minister. He cannot even get his dates right. The scheme, in which the offender undertakes unpaid work as community service, has many attractive features as an alternative to imprisonment. The offender remains as a member of the communhy and no problem is presented regarding reintegration into the community after the service has been completed. The work can be arranged so that it will not interfere with normal employment, so any disruption of normal domestic life will not create undue hardships for any family. The offender does not escape punish­ ment for the offence, but pays for it in a way which places the least burden on those who are blameless—the family. We hear much about the family from the other side—much rhetoric and no real action. A lot of figures are quoted which slip easily off the tongue, but when one looks at which the money is being spent, one finds that nowhere is it being spent effectively or in sufficiently large amounts to really have an effect on the social problems that are created by this cosy conservative Government.

The cost of administering the Community Service Order Scheme would be, as I said before, considerably less than the cost of imprisoning an offender for even a short period. The saving that could be made is seen when one makes a detailed analysis of the length of sentences and the type of sentences that appear m the last annual report of the Comptroller-General of Prisons, The 1982-83 annual report shows that 3 989 persons were admhted to prisons in that year. Of those, 3 000 were sentenced for periods of 958 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates) less than six months. By far the largest grouping was for driving offences and traffic- related offences, and other large categories were for non-payment of fines, car theft, breaking and entering and fraud. Those are hardly major crimes for which offenders should be locked away for lengthy periods. It can be seen, therefore, that a very high percentage of short-term prisoners are not a danger to society. Even the trial judge or magistrate often did not consider them to be in need of prison, but they eventually landed in prison because of the non-payment of fines. Nothing can be more unjust than that a person who has committed an offence and been sentenced should be chucked into gaol—a place that was thought to be inappropriate—because he could not pay a fine. Under the system, people end where they should not be—in a training ground for further offences. Over the week-end, a criminologist told me that two-thirds of Queensland's short- term prisoners—those serving less than six months and many of them serving less than one month—^were not in any way suitable prison inmates, and that two-thirds of prison inmates numbering 2 000 would be far better punished by means of community service orders which, constantly this evening, have been held up by the Government as being wonderful things. They are not used in anything Uke the number of cases that they should be. Savings could be effected in this area and this is how the Government should be acting. I am concerned about the Government's lack of sincerity or concern about prisoners or tax-payers. It claims that Queensland is a low-tax State but it does not take advantage of the available options. The Government will provide no real increase in spending on the probation service. As a result, its officers are in revolt. Until very recently it was quite likely that the officers in the service would refuse to accept new casework after 1 January 1984, The departmental report reveals almost a 100 per cent increase—from 451 to 850— in individual community service orders being administered between 30 June 1982 and 30 June 1983, The report also reveals a growth of 28 per cent in the number of persons on probation during the year. Those figures refer only to the number of bodies and not the supervision requirements. Some cases can involve both probation and community service orders. That necessarily entails twice the work-load for the individual supervising officer. If the figures are of concern—^and I would expect that they should concem the Govern­ ment—I should expect a sharp increase in the number of staff employed by the service to cope with the increased work-load. Instead of staff numbers increasing, I note a net decrease of just under 5 per cent. The number of staff decreased by 4i per cent from 106 at 30 June last year, to 101 at 30 June this year. Probation officers became so concerned over a number of years that, in 1981, they formed their own section of the State Service Union. Prior to that they were put into a general category. They could see what was comhig and they knew what the Govemment was like, so a new section was formed. That was in response to their knowledge that a 1968 Executive Council minute stated that each probation officer should have no more than 75 individual cases. As a result of the increased work-load, the majority of probation officers now have more than 100 cases active at any time. Some have as many as 120 "live" cases or almost double the number that Cabinet decided was a fair number. I repeat that Cabinet said that there would be no more than 75 individual cases for one probation officer. The colossal increase means that a previously dedicated branch of the public service is now forced to take unprecedented industrial action. The Minister for Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs is undoubtedly aware of letters sent to his predecessor and also to himself by the State Service Union complaining about the situation and askuig that something be done. Because those communications had little or no effect, the union carried a resolution that if there was no improvement in the individual work-load, probation officers would accept no new cases for supervision after 1 January 1984, The Minister claims that he is very interested in his portfoUo; but he did not visit the Brisbane Prison COmplex during the recent riots, and he has looked bored and tired today when listening to speeches from honourable members on both sides of the Chamber, I suppose that he knew what was in most of the speeches from the Govemment Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 959 members because they were prepared by him. However, when confronted with the stance of the probation officers, he decided that the senior officers in his department could talk to the union because it might be very embarrassing if, on 1 January, the courts were told that probation orders and community service orders could no longer be granted. A high-powered meeting was held between the Under Secretary, the Chief Probation Officer and union representatives. At that meeting a commitment was made to put a submission before Cabinet. No-one has heard whether that submission was put forward, whether it was considered or what the result was. But that submission, even if the Minister did put it to Cabinet, fell far short of what was required. It sought eight more probation officers. I would like to know where those eight new officers would be placed among the numerous overworked officers in Queensland. WoiUd the Minister decide that some probation officers were to return to a reasonable work-load and others were to continue to slave imder work-loads of 100 or 120 active cases? I wUl await with interest the next question-time when the Minister might have to answer some of those questions. If prisoners are to be released from prison to undertake community service orders, public opinion must be considered. The public would not allow rapists and murderers to be released. Approximately 2 000 prisoners are serving short-term periods of imprisonment, for a variety of minor offences. The average cost of maintaining the prisoners serving those sentences is $3,7(X). With 2000 prisoners, about $5m could be saved if these prisoners were released to undertake community service orders. The cost of maintaining those 2 000 prisoners at $3,700 each would be almost $7.5m, and between $lm and $2m could be spent on the probation service so that it could do the job that is expected of it. The cost of maintaining people on community service orders would be considerably less than the cost of keeping them in prison. The Government's own figures show that an average of less than $1,000 per person would be needed to maintain people on community service orders. This would mean a total cost of $l,5m to $2m, A direct cash saving to this State of $5m is there for the asking. Indirect savings to the social welfare system would then flow. Tax-payers would benefit because other social security payments would not have to be made. A humane, concerned Government would make those changes. The conservative Government in Queensland has only one answer: the fine option, which is to be introduced from 1 AprU 1984, At least three Govemment members, or pseudo-Government members from the Liberal Party, have said what a wonderful option that is, April Fool's Day, is an appropriate date for such foolish legislation to come into force. From that date, Magistrates Courts will be clogged up even further because of the extra minutes that magistrates will need to take to explain the niceties of the scheme. Under section 89C, the scheme requires that each magistrate explain to an offender that he may, if he wishes, work under a community service order rather than be fined. Once that has been explained, the offender must elect on the hop what he wishes to do. Many offenders, when they come before a magistrate, do not know what is going on. At times, I have stood with an offender when he has been asked, "How long would you like to pay?" Only hazy answers can be drawn from the offender., It is a bit like members of Pariiament coming to this place for the first time. Their knees turn to jelly and they really cannot concentrate hard. A Govemment Member: Speak for yourself. You are hazy, Mr COMBEN: No, I am not hazy; I am very much on the ball tonight—much more so than when I made my maiden speech. Once that has been explained and once the offender has had the opportunity to say "Yea" or "Nay" to the fine option—^whether he will take the community service order or accept the fine—the magistrate has to satisfy himself that criteria as laid down in section 89C are complied with. The most important criterion is that the offender has shown that he is unable to pay the fine, which means that if he "was ordered to pay the fine he would be thrown into gaol three months later for not being able to pay the fine anyway. 960 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

Another important criterion is that the payment of the fine will produce a harsh resuh on the family. The honourable member for Salisbury and I are aware of cases in which the offender has done the right thing by the court and has paid the fine, and weeks later we found that his kids lived on baked beans on toast for weeks. The offender's wife and children are the ones who pay. The offender does not stop buying cigarettes, nor does he stop going to the dog races on Saturday; he gives up buying food. If the payment of a fine is going to produce hardship for the family, a community service order can be given. In addition, it must be shown that a project exists in which the offender can take part and that the offender is suitable person to undertake community service. Quite often it is necessary that a probation officer be called before the court. That, too, takes time. What should be happening is that community service orders should be available on a much wider basis than at present and that magistrates and District COurt judges should know that they can make such orders automatically, that services will be available and that schemes on which offenders can work straight away will be avaUable. To get back to the community service orders themselves—the Government is intent on abrogating its responsibUity totally and with depending totally on the community to provide materials, equipment and on-site supervision. In areas such as Inala and Woodridge, community projects are not easy to come by. I think of the Inala Progress Association hall and the ambulance station at Inala, Jobs could be carried out if there Was sufficient community money to pay for the paint, the brushes and the sandpaper. However, in areas such as Inala there is not sufficient money. In Clayfield, on the other hand, there is always plenty of money available for projects that need to be done. However, this Government is not interested in that; it wants to see the local community do everything.

It is necessary that people know that offenders are available to undertake commimity projects. An obvious example is the Logan Show. When I drove in, I was told that the man at the gate, who was dressed just as the Minister would dress at the week-end— without a shirt and no shoes—and who was covered with tattoos, was there under a community service order. He was having the time of his life and he had worked beyond the terms of his order because he was enjoymg the work. The local service organisations found out about the scheme and asked the local probation officer whether they could get people under community service orders when they were undertaking community projects.

The system has worked very well, but the community must be told that it is in existence. However, the Govemment does not seem to be too concerned. Schemes of this type are not always possible, because the Govemment will not put hs hand in its pocket. It wUl not save the taxpayers approximately $5m. As a result, h must expect the costs of the schane to increase. The thin Une of probation officers cannot stretch for ever. More must be employed and more week-end supervisors must be employed so that the schemes can be properly supervised. If the Government were a decent, humane Government, we would get somewhere. Unfortunately, when I look at the Government benches, I cry for some people in this State.

Mr STEPHAN (Gympie) (8.24 p.m.): First I congratulate the Minister on his first presentation of Estimates and on his elevation to the Ministry. As chairman of his committee, I have much pleasure in supporting him. Other members of his committee are Leisha Harvey, Brian Cahill, Kevin Lingard and Brian Littleproud. The Minister will receive a great d^ of support and assistance from this august group of men and women and his departmental officers. They accept a degree of responsibility far above that which the member for Windsor apparently expects or is able to visualise from the Opposhion back benches. The Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs portfolio helps people in need and people facing difficulties. Honourable members should bear those very humane ideals in mind. Many individuals who find themselves in a moment of need are referred to the Department of Welfare Services by community organisations that are wilUng to assist. The Opposition is obsessed whh comparing complicated figures. As usual, as in the last election, they do not seem to be able to see the wood for the trees. Many of my coUeagues have discussed the programs that help people in the community, such as deserted wives and husbands, and youth in crisis. Many voluntary workers are prepared to assist. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 961

I stress an aspect that is not easily appreciated by looking simply at the Budget allocations. The Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs portfolio m recent times has undergone a massive reorganisation designed to make the different units within the portfolio more effective and to give better value for the tax-payers' dollar. That has been mentioned on a couple of occasi(xis tonight. Unlike Oiq>ositi(m members, members on the Government side of the Committee recognise that promises must be paid for. That is why the Minister, in launching the National Party's welfare policy during the election campaign, outlined poUcies that were practicable. Unlike the Oppositicm, the Government did not promise the impossible. The Opposition stated that it would increase spending in every area of government; yet it did not mention the increased taxes or the enormous and frightening deficit that would result. Opposition members frequently lose sight of those matters. It is a pity that the Leader of the Opposition did not practise what he preached during the election campaign and adopt a responsible approach to Government spending. It is also a pity that he is not in the Chamber more often. It is noticeable that his seat is not occupied other than during question-time. In 1974 the Leader of the Opposition said— "Treasury is not a bottomless well. We know there is not enough money to satisfy everybody's whims and wants. We know no Govemment, irrespective of its political colour, will be able to satisfy the wants of every person, or the needs of every part of the State." The member for Brisbane Central should remember that when next he speaks. It must be remembered that, once the Leader of the Opposition sold his soul to the socialist left to become leader, those comments were quickly forgotten. It is a pity that the member for South Brisbane did not learn something from his leader before he launched his usual tirade against the Government on welfare spending levels and before he outlined his own inept policies on welfare, which are based on the one premise of spend, spend and spend. He referred to women's refuges and said that not enough was being done in Queensland. What is being done in Queensland should be compared with what is done in other States. Mr Davis interjected. Mr STEPHAN: I believe that he is a trendy, too. The Govemment has given a high priority to refuges. Last year, 2200 women and 3200 children were helped. Presently, 21 refuges and one crisis rape centre receive assist­ ance. The number will be increased in 1983-84 to 23 refuges. Queensland, because of its method of funding, which leaves the different groups conducting refuges to raise 12i per cent of their total costs, has been able to help more women than other States in which 100 per cent funding is provided. For instance, Victoria funds only 18 refuges and South Australia funds only 11. Queensland hopes to ensure that its method of funding encourages community participation and awareness of refuge activities and better value for money. As the Federal Minister for Social Security (Senator Grimes) admitted last July, since 1981 refuges have been the responsibUity of the States. Queensland has had to dip into its own resources to continue their funding. Mr Hawke has found that he cannot fund his big-spending proposals. As times goes by, he is becoming more and more aware of that. Many people are beginning to call him "Mai Hawke" The Opposition in this State does not understand the intricacies of Government administration. Great strides have been taken in making Queensland's welfare system more efficient. The Opposition has been out of Government for a long time and has lost touch with the reaUty of Government administration. It is mesmerised by its own out-of-date and totally unsuccessful slogans. From comments made by the member for South Brisbane during the election campaign, it is obvious that the aims and achievements of reorganisation within the department have been completely misunderstood by the Opposition. In essence, the thmst of the reorganisation of the Department of Children's Services has been to regionalise a whole range of services and decision-making powers. Instead of having a large number of district offices with limited powers, often needing to refer matters to head office in Brisbane, a new system has been instituted. That has been recognised tonight, albeit belatedly. However, it is encouraging that at tim^ the Oppositi(m realises that improvements have been made. 962 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

Four regions have been established—northern, central, southem and metropolitan—each with a regional director. Within each region are a number of districts headed by a district manager responsible to the regional director. Part and parcel of these changes has been the allocation of additional staff and units to these levels to take on the functions previously carried out by head office in Brisbane. For instance, residential care was once controlled by a centralised unit in Brisbane; it now comes under the direction of the various regions. In a State as decentraUsed as Queensland, where services are of necessity dispersed, these changes allow officers on the spot, who understand regional issues, to make decisions that reflect the needs of the region. Unfortunately, during the election campaign, the Opposition tried to paint this regional­ isation process and the accompanying decentraUsation of specialist units as a retrograde step. That is typical of the ALP, which sees Brisbane as the centre of everything in this State and simply ignores the fact that over 50 per cent of Queensland's population lives outside the capital city. As a country-based member, living 180 km from Brisbane, I understand how important it is to have a proper range of services available to less populated areas, and that the people delivering those services should not be enmeshed in a web of bureaucratic buck-passing. Other changes also have conveniently been forgotten by the Opposition. For instance, a Division of Specialist Services has now been established at the Department of Children's Services to develop the proper co-ordination of policies, to undertake research and to evaluate departmental services, I am sure that all honourable members agree that evaluation is an important function, if we are to ensure that public money is spent properly. As part of the process, the Department of Children's Services and the Chief Office of Welfare Services have appointed internal operational auditors to undertake studies into the efficiency of particular departmental activities at the direction of the chief accountable officers. Other reforms in the Welfare Services portfolio deserve special mention. The Queensland Recreation Council, formerly the National Fitness Council, has been considerably revamped and upgraded. In common with the Department of Children's Services, considerable effort has been made to decentralise the Recreation Council's activities. There are now 22 branch offices and a similar number of area committees to encourage local participation. It has recently been mentioned to me that Recreation Council officers could help organise sporting championships, which take an enormous amount of time for voluntary workers. I have in mind particularly a week-long cricket carnival just completed in my own city of Gympie. Hours and hours of work go into the organisation of sport and recreational activities, which are part and parcel of the operation of the Queensland Recreation CouncU. Services to migrants have been examined and, as the Minister outlined, in future the present Division of Migrant Services will be upgraded to full departmental status. Great work has been done to rationalise existing services and forge new Unks with different ethnic communities. I could list other reforms; but I believe that the point has been made clearly that welfare services have undergone quite dramatic changes to enable them to meet the challenges of the '80s and beyond. I wish to discuss adoptions. From time to time, I receive representations from couples frustrated by their inability to adopt a baby and the long delay in processing their case. However, the delays are not necessarily of the department's making but reflect social trends beyond anyone's control. The fact of the matter is that there are approximately three times as many applications as there are babies available for adoption. The decUne in the number of babies available for adoption reflects the growth of a new social phenomenon—single, unmarried mothers. I am not talking about divorcees or widows, but a smaller group of single, usually very young, girls who have had children whom they have been encouraged to retain. By the time the child attains an age of between five and seven, the novelty, if ever it was one, for the mother of having her own child seems to drift away. That places the child in a fairly unstable environment. Unless it is fortunate enough to be placed in a family-group home, of which there is an increasing number, the child is left without any family. In many instances, it would be better if the child was put up for adoption shortly after its birth so that it could be adopted and taken care of by loving parents who, as I pomted out, have to wait for seven or eight years to adopt a child. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 963

Mr Davis: You want to take the child from the natural mother—is that right? Mr STEPHAN: I do not suggest that it should be taken from the natural mother. I simply suggest that, in many instances, the child would be better off whh an adoptive family than to become a latchkey child or even one who seldom sees its parents. If the natural parents could take care of the child, there would not be any problem. Part of the encouragement to single girls to keep their children comes from the Commonwealth's supporting parent's benefit. Mr Davis: Where do you get your facts from? Mr STEPHAN: The facts come from the department and are available for everybody's perusal. If the honourable member would open his eyes he, too, would see what is going on in the community and would learn to understand some of the problems. I hope he will do that. I appreciate that single, unmarried mothers represent only a small proportion of family households in Australia; but the fact remains that over 30 per cent of the recipients of the supporting parent's benefit are in that category. In itself, that trend is not necessarily bad. However, reports from both Queensland and other States show that a greater proportion of child-abuse cases come from this group. Honourable members should bear in mind that I am thinking of the child. To me, it seems a great human tragedy that many couples are anxious to adopt babies but, because of the decline in numbers of children available, are unable to do so; yet, at the same time, an increasing number of young and inexperienced girls are being encouraged to retain children whom they are unable to fully support and nurture. Mr Davis: By whom? Mr STEPHAN: I thought I had just gone through that. It is a pity that the honourable member kept on talking instead of Ustening. Recently, I was glad to support changes to the Adoption of Children Act, which wiU keep Queensland's adoption practices in tune with social changes. The new section 17 allows separate Usting of adoptions and other changes to make it easier for couples who have divorced and remarried to adopt their own children into the new marriage. ChUdren who have a name different from that of their parents are made to suffer by their peers. Such problems need not occur in future. Another reform is the proposal to establish an adoption tribunal chaired by a judge of the District Court. It will hear appeals from people dissatisfied with the decision of the director of the department. Opposition members are always criticising the Govemment about a lack of rights of appeal, but they rarely acknowledge the important reforms that have been, and are being, achieved. The Department of Welfare Services is shaping up to be one of the most effective and dynamic departments of its type in AustraUa. Its management is modern, its staff dedicated and its new Minister sensitive to the needs of the people of Queensland That would be obvious to any member of the Opposition who cared to take a look. I cannot resume my seat without mentioning community service orders. I know they have been mentioned time and time again. I see them as a success story in the effective reorganisation of the justice system and support for certain offenders. The purpose of such orders is twofold. On the one hand, they provide some form of reparation by the offender himself and, on the other, they expose him to association with well-adjusted members of community service organisations who are responsible for worthwhile projects. If an offender is doing something for the community in which he lives and in which he has grown up, and if he can do that and remain a part of his family, so much the better. I support the Minister, I wish him well, and I know that he will retain his portfolio for a long time. Mr R. J. GIBBS (Wolston) (8.33 p.m.): The standard of debate on the other side of the (Chamber during this debate has been appalling. The member for Fassifern has shown very early in his political career some of the fine and outstanding qualities that he showed as a footballer with Westem Suburbs. He was notorious for having a great 964 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates) ability to sidestep issues, a beautiful set of hands on the microphone and a demonstrable lack of good old guts. At least one thing he and I do not have in common is that when I played football for Westem Suburbs I was never found outside the C^xton Hotel lying face down in my own bile. Although I agree with the justifiable criticism that has been levelled at the Queensland prison service, I want to give a couple of accolades to a number of officers at the Wacol Prison. In the six years that I have been the member for Wolston I have had very close dealings with the Wacol Prison and its officers, and I must say that I have been afforded nothing but courteous service and been given every assistance that could possibly have been given to me. I have been inside the prison on a number of occasions and, if some of the practices adopted there were introduced into the Brisbane Prison, the service would be a lot further advanced that it is at the present time. I compliment the superintendent of the Wacol Prison (Dick Dobinson) and the deputy superintendent (Ray Glynn). I do not propose to go into the logistics this evening, but both of those people serve the prison in a way that is far above what they would normally be called on to serve. They have, outside their normal working hours, been very helpful, understanding and compassionate towards a number of wives and families of prisoners. They have a good understandmg of the prison service throughout Queensland. Having organised with the Minister some weeks ago for a delegation of Opposition members to inspect the Wacol Prison, I received a letter of acknowledgement granting permission to undertake that trip. It is regrettable that, on the evening of 1 December, in this Chamber, the Minister hand delivered to me, a letter revoking the permission. We were to go to the prison on Monday, 5 December. The letter pointed out that the action was being taken for our own personal safety and welfare. Amazingly enough, only that moming, in a ministerial statement, the Minister said— "Everything within the prison service is under control and there are no further problems." The Minister revoked the permission to go through the prison on the basis that our safety could have been jeopardised or on the basis that we may have, as members of ParUament, had the temerhy to stop somewhere along the line to speak to some of the prisoners. The Minister did his department and his officers a distinct disservice by revoking the permission to visit. He put those fine officers at the Wacol Prison in the situation in which people could say, "What is there to hide?" I am not convinced that there is anything to hide at the Wacol Prison but, by taking that action, the Minister showed his poUtical immaturity. I approached him personally and I must say that it was obvious to me that the order had not come from him. I make no apology for saying that I believe he was instructed by the Premier. The Minister referred to the Goodna Neighbourhood Centre. This evening I pay tribute to that centre, to the Go Ahead Goodna Group and to the group called Care and Concem, all of which are integral parts of the Goodna Neighbourhood Centre, As the Minister said, the centre plays a very important role in my area. However, it demonstrably lacks suitable welfare back-up and support services. These people provide a service largely on a voluntary basis and often on a 24-hour basis. They do a splendid job. I am concemed about a number of matters, I am worried about the future of the social worker, Clair O'MaUey. I am concerned about Ann Young who does the general co-ordination and typing at the centre. Both of them do a splendid job. I stand to be corrected but I understand that approval has yet to be given for funding the 1984 year. It is essential that the Minister make money avaUable to the Goodna Neighbourhood Centre, I implore him to do so. I do not make my plea from a political point of view. The Goodna Neighbourhood COntre does not play politics. Although the brother of the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General was the Liberal candidate who stood against me in the last State election and is the chairman of the board of directors, he and I work very well together. He shares my concern that finance should be made available, Mr Muntz: I assure you that it will be treated on its merits. Mr R. J. GIBBS: It is not simply a matter of saying it wiU be treated on its merits. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 965

The Go Ahead Goodna group, which is one of the integral groups of the Goodna Neighbourhood Centre, recently established a co-operative where people can buy fresh fruit and vegetables. It is in the process of establishing its own shop, which will help relieve some of the unemployment. Prior to the change of Government—I regret that Mr White is not in the Chamber this evening because I would have welcomed his answer to my accusation—concern was expressed and some sort of intemal investigation was carried out by departmental officers on the basis that the establishment of this fruit and vegetable co-operative would be in direct competition with local business houses. Somebody had the temerity to say h had socialistic logic behind it. That is an absolutely ridiculous, stupid statement. The co-operative is designed to help a lot of people in my electorate who are on the very bottom rung of the ladder financially, economically and socially and need that assistance. Many Government members have echoed a particular point of view. The member for Crreenslopes said that famiUes should be left on their own and encouraged to help themselves. That is tme to a great degree; but in many Govemment-held electorates one does not find the same community and social problems that are encountered in electorates of Labor members. I admit that the electorate of Cjreensl(^)es has an elderly population, but many Labor-held electorates have a concentration of Housing Commission estates. The Government is guilty of lumping together single-parent families—divorced or separated men and women who are on the breadline and who have social problems. Many of those families are not capable of helping themselves. They need people to give them expert advice on, among other things, their budgetary requirements. They do not need foisted upon them the type of people whom Government members represent. I refer to people such as employees of Waltons who knock on the doors of these families every couple of weeks and take advantage of them because they cannot handle their finances. Tbey jack them in over their heads and then close in on them for payment. That is a disastrous thing to happen in any area, and it happens frequently in my electorate. That is why those families need professional help, advice and guidance to show them what to do. I make particular reference tonight to the lack of welfare facilities in my electorate of Wolston and in the area of Riverview. I am sure that the Govemment members do not understand these problems, I acknowledge that the city of Ipswich is well serviced by community service organisations and Government instrumentalities; but the Riverview area has no public transport. People there have to walk anything up to four or five miles to catch a train. No bus services are provided. Those people are socially and economically deprived. It costs them money for train services into Ipswich, Although for most people it is not a big problem to have welfare service facilities located eight or nine miles up the line, to people from the Riverview area it is. Government members like to talk about decentralisation. The electorate of Wolston needs decentraUsation of Government welfare services urgently. Every time I write to the Department of Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs the answer is the same—no funding is available. Although my electorate contains a huge Housing Commission estate, no local office of the Housing Commission is situated in either Goodna or Riverview. Anyone with a problem must go to Brisbane or to Inala, which is in the electorate of the member for Archerfield, and speak to Housing Commission officers there. The people who caU at the door to talk about rent problems are not properly trained to handle problems in areas such as Riverview. The Government needs to consider urgently the decentralisation of welfare services in the areas that I have mentioned. Earlier in this debate, the member for South Brisbane commented on the need for women's shelters. I share his concem. It is not good enough to simply say that people should not be institutionalised; I subscribe to that theory myself. Every social step than can be taken to keep people out of institutions should be taken. However, there are women in the community—I meet at least five a month in my electoral office—^who suffer emotional problems at home because they have been battered or bashed. In some instances, they have even been raped within the sanctity of their own marriage. That fact, of course, is not recognised by the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General. Those women need adequate services to assist them. At the majority of women's shelters, the women who conduct them are doing their best. During the State election campaign, I was in Mt Isa, and, with the ALP candidate, Mr Price, I visited the women's shelter in that town. Although the women at that shelter were 60858—33 966 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates) doing a splendid job with the faciUties that they had, the conditions under which they Uved were absolutely appaUing. Besides the women who live in those shelters, the kids, too, who are there as victims of busted marriages and emotional trauma, share those appalling CMiditions. Let the Govemment not be under the iUusion that it has a mortgage on the family unit or on feeUngs for families and kids. It does not. Every colleague of mine in the Oi^>osition is as good a famUy man as Government members—and, in some instances, even better. It is time that the Government reviewed the need for full funding of women's shelters. It should not merely purchase some dUapidated, broken-down old home and then expect people to raise funds to pay for its renovation. It should consider the constmction of suitable buildings and the provision of adequate services for women in that type of situation. Before I conclude, I want to comment briefly on the quality of some social workers who are graduating from various institutions such as the Queensland University. I say to the Minister that, if ever he is big-hearted enough or compassionate enough to provide some services for me in my electorate, he should not send me social woricers who are under 35 years of age. My experience, particularly over the past two years, has been that the quaUty of such graduates from the Queensland University is absolutely appalling. They are coming onto the job with very little experience of community problems, I have no objection to young people going to the university and doing the course. Social work is a very fine profession and it has a good future. However, somewhere in the course the students must be brought into close contact with the problems confronting a community. At present, they are put out as an offsider to someone and suddenly they are lumped into the community. They have ideas that, to say the least, are airy-fairy. They should have ideas that face up to the realities of the practical issues—the gut issues—^and the poUtical and financial issues that confront people in deprived areas. I hope that the Minister takes that point into consideration. Finally, I pay a very sincere tribute to the people in my electorate who, in conjunction with the Queensland Recreation CouncU, organise the Jacaranda Festival. Voluntary workers do their utmost to raise money by conducting raffles in hotels in my electorate and under­ taking other fund-raising functions such as the Jacaranda Festival and the crowning of the Jacaranda Queen once a year. The funds are raised for the development of the Evan Marginson sporting complex. I have tried to give an idea of the very poor facUities that exist in my area, particularly for kids. Very few sporting-fields, for example, are avaUable. In an area such as mine, which is economically deprived, it is very difficult to raise adequate funds for the development of playgrounds, cinder tracks for training children who participate in Little Athletics, cricket pitches and football-fields. The sporting complex will embrace all such facUities. It is not good enough for the Government to sit back and, through the Queensland Recreation Council, rely totaUy on the community to raise funds for such a project. The commuruty is called upon to raise money for education, welfare and a number of other very important day-to-day activities. It is time that the Government gave eamest consideration to the problems confronting areas such as mine and was a Uttle more generous in handuig out money to them. I am not one who subscribes to the theory that it is a matter of run money off the printing presses. I acknowledge that responsibiUty must be exercised in spending on Government programs. When Labor gains office in Queensland, that is something with which it must come to grips. There is a need for priorities. It is no longer good enough, as the Govemment demonstrates in the field of education, for its priorhies to be in those seats that are marginal National Party seats. That is the area in which the Cjovemment is spending its money. Not enough money is being spent in my electorate. It might interest honourable members to know that at the last State election 35 per cent of the voters in my electorate voted for the former Govemment parties. If there had not been a Liberal Party candidate in my electorate, 35 per cent of the voters would have voted for a National Party candidate. Thirty-five per cent of the people with children in my electorate who are not Labor voters are experiencing the same problems as Labor Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 967

voters are experiencing. It is not a poUtical issue; it is an issue that concerns people, human beings, the welfare of people in the community and the children who suffer from those underprivileged conditions. I appeal to the Minister to be relatively generous and to put his political feelings aside when he is considering the disbursement of funds, particularly funds for the Goodna Neigh­ bourhood Centre. Mr SIMPSON (Cooroora) (9.1 p.m.): It gives me pleasure to support the Minister in the presentation of his Estimates and to bring to the attention of the Committee the worth­ while job that is being done to meet the needs of various people in the community. A number of references have been made to people who fall on bad times and people who are bad money-managers. Many problems begin as a result of bad money-management. Often those problems are compounded by people finding solace in the bottle. The result is that children are abused or neglected and wives are battered, and other problems arise in the home. I wish to refer to people who need assistance. Many people in the community are prepared to assist those in need who, either by misadventure or by ignorance, place their Uves at risk. I refer jxarticularly to the surf Uve-saving clubs, which do a wonderful job in this State and, indeed, throughout Australia. The surf life-saving clubs are very ably supported in Queensland, as are other rescue services, such as the coastguard. Its role is not only to rescue those in difficulty but also to educate people who use boats on Queens­ land's waterways. They are taught how to handle their boats and how not to get themselves into trouble. A rescue helicopter service has been established in my electorate. It helps substantially with surveillance and rescue operations on Queensland's beaches. The service has been extended into forestry areas. It is used also as a support for ambulance services when it is not possible, because of traffic congestion, to reach the scene of an accident. It can also be used during floods when the ordinary ambulance services cannot be provided. The rescue heUcopter service is funded by the Surf Life Saving Association to the extent of 75 cents in the dollar. It cost more than $175,(X)0 to fund the first service that was provided on the Sunshine Coast, That service has now been extended to the Gold Coast, A similar service operates there on a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week basis. That provides a very important service to those who get into trouble. People never venture out thinking that that will happen. The service supports our surf life-savers, whose voluntary work is so valuable. Life-savers educate people on where to surf and encourage younger people to take an interest in the movement. They conduct learn-to-swim programs. They encourage the development of healthy bodies through outdoor activity. Life-savers protect members of the local community, day trippers and interstate and overseas visitors who, on seeing our wonderful beaches, think they can race into the surf anywhere. Sadly, overseas visitors represent a large percentage of the people who lose their lives off our beaches. The rips on our long, expansive coastline present problems for the inexperienced. Through modern communication, our mobile life-saving patrols are providing even more extensive protection for our surfers. Queensland has 5 000 km of coastline—and that creates real problems. However, because of stingers and so on, some of those waters are not safe to swim in. Fortunately, on the Gold and Sunshine coasts, which are in the subtropics, people are able to swim the whole year round without experiencing those problems. The Surf Life Saving Association received $1,378,000 to provide its services. Queensland is the envy of other States because of the support given to the rescue heUcopter service. QF5, which is based at Noosa, regularly answers distress calls at sea. Occasionally something goes wrong even with experienced men at the helm. They might have aU the safety equipment and foUow proper procedures, but the unforeseen can happen. On the other hand the inexperienced venture out without sufficient knowledge of local conditions. Tragedy often strikes on bars. With changing conditions caused by tides and continually shifting bars, even experienced skippers get into strife. Unfortunately, lives are stiU lost on many bars. 968 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

The State Government is providing a very important service in training young people to be good citizens and to pass on their training. I refer particularly to guides and scouts. Those people are prepared to be more self-sufficient in our community and not depend on electricity and the many other mod cons that the community takes for granted. Baden-Powell devised fun programs to prepare young people for good citizenship and reUability. I see the Mituster for Education in the (Chamber. He is Assistant Chief Commissioner of Scouts for Queensland. Mr Davis: Did you say that the Minister is ACC for guides? Mr SIMPSON: I said "scouts", and I am sure that the sex discrimination legislation that the honourable member's Canberra colleagues are trying to put through Mr Kmger: That has nothing to do with the Estimates under debate. Mr SIMPSON: I am afraid it has. I would Uke to think that it did not. Because of the ramifications of that legislation, some of the groups that do such a wonderful job in the community may not have the right to train boys in the Boy Scouts or ghls in the Girl Guides. It may be made compulsory to admit girls mto the Boy Scouts and boys into the Girl Guides. That is unnecessary and ridiculous. It appears that some members on the Opposition benches think that that would be good. I commend those organisations and their volunteer leaders who give of their time to ttain future citizens. Another organisation in my electorate that does a very good job is Zone 6 of the Apex Club, which has established a camp for underprivileged young people near Mudjimba, just north of the Maroochy River. The members of the club are voluntarily giving up their time to build a camp to enable underprivileged youngsters to holiday near the sea. The State Government has provided substantial assistance for the project. The Minister is responsible for the administration of national fitness camps, which enable young people to have a holiday away from their homes. As well as the recreation that they engage in at those camps, they receive training in living with other people. In Nambour many thousands of young people use the exceUent resources of the Police Citizens Youth Club, which conducts more than 25 different activities. Unfortunately I do not have time to list them all. It provides several indoor auditoriums for sport and recreation, a 25-metre swimming-pool, squash courts and accommodation for groups from Queensland and interstate. It keeps young people active and interested in life and I am hopeful that a similar club can be established at Noosa. The most important aspect is the volunteer helpers who set out the programs and guide the young people. Unfortunately, these days often both parents work—sometimes one is even a shift-worker—^and they wish to have the week-end to themselves. They therefore send their children to some organisations such as the Boy Scouts or the Police Citizens Youth Club. Sometimes the children are even left to their own resources. I suggest that it is better to interest them in some organisation where they can be supervised. The Rural Youth Organisation provides a service for those who are interested in mral pursuits. That organisation reaUy provides an educational training program as well as the fellowship of its members. I meant to mention earlier the excellent shark-netting program that safeguards swimmers against shark attacks. I am amazed that it is effective. Only a single net is set, but it seems to work most effectively. I presume that the program is conducted in co-operation with the Department of Harbours and Marine, because there is an appropriation in these Estimates for shark nets. I now deal with free rail travel and other transport concessions for pensioners. Full reciprocal arrangements with other States were introduced when the Brisbane Chy COuncil fell into line and provided pensioner concessions for interstate visitors on its buses. The service will be very costly because interstate pensioners will find that there is no better place than Queensland to enjoy a holiday. The Lions Club in Nambour has provided an emergency housing service. The club does a very good job in counselling people and rehabilitating them. The Federal Government initially funded the service but phased it out and the Department of Welfare Services had to pick up the tab. Fortunately, the service is now receiving funds from the Federal Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 969

Govemment and voluntary organisations. The only way our resources could possibly be UtUised is with voluntary assistance from people with a great deal of leisure-time as well as with taxation funds to provide people in need with the necessary personal care that is always more effective than the paid, professional and often expected service. It is up to us to utilise all our resources to the best possible advantage. I commend the Minister on his introduction of the Estimates. I am sure that he will continue to do a very good job in his portfolio and use our resources for the good of all Queenslanders. Mr MILLER (Ithaca) (9.18 p.m.): The Minister for Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs controls departments that handle all of the problems and heart-break of the community. There is never sufficient money to enable his departments to overcome the many problems they face each day, and there is very little sympathy from members of the community when they are asked for more money to spend in this area yet, whUe insufficient money is fed into the departments they wiU continue to be unable to solve the growing problems they face. It is the old story of the dog chasing its tail. If the community is not prepared to pay sufficient money to solve the problems, they will remain. I was surprised to hear the Minister say in his opening remarks that the tax-payers are now paying $32.2m each year to maintain our prison system. I wonder what the community is geting for that $32.2m apart from knowing that those people who have broken the law are behind bars for a number of years and are thus prevented from committing further offences. But what happens when offenders are released back into the community? Have the problems they were facing prior to entering gaol been overcome? In most cases, I do not believe that they have. Lack of money sent most of them there in the first place. Somehow or other, when these people leave gaol, they must have money in their pockets. Not long ago the Government paid the prisoners wages ranging from 7c to 40c a day. Today, the wages vary between 40c and $1.20 a day. How can prisoners save a lot of money in 10 to 15 years? Nothing could be more fmstrating for a prisoner than to come out of gaol without money in his pocket. The prisoner is in the same situation as when he went into gaol. He has no money and no job. A few minutes ago the honourable member for Wolston spoke about the problems faced by one-parent families and those with unemployment problems. Released prisoners face exactly the same problems. The Govemment should rethink hs system of paying prisoners. A short time ago the Government decided that, it would give to private enterprise all laundry work from public hospitals. At that time it should have considered very seriously the building of a laundry in the prison complex. Mr Davis: That is the standard old English style. Mr MILLER: I suggest to the member for Brisbane Central that prisoners would far rather work in any situation and come out of gaol with money in their pockets than sit in the prison yard completely frustrated by lack of activhy. The Minister referred to the apprenticeship scheme that has been started for many prisoners. It is a .great help so that they can commence work in a trade on release. But many prisoners cannot be part of that scheme because of age, lack of educational qualifications or mere lack of opportunity in the prison system. By creating industry in the prison system the Govemment could say to the prisoners, "Work while you are here and behave yourselves so that you can leave whh money in your pockets." If the Govemment can pay private enterprise to do the laundry, I cannot see why it should not pay prisoners to do it. I see no reason why the prisoners should not pay the Queensland Government board whUe they are in prison. A considerable sum of their wages could be banked and given to them on theh release. Mr Davis: Do you suggest paying them award wages? Mr MILLER: I am talking about the award wages for AWU workers in laundries. I understand that the AWU looks after laundry workers. I see no reason why prisoners cannot be offered an incentive which would allow them to retum to the community as decent people. 970 20 December 1983 Supply (Estunates)

Mr Casey interjected. Mr MILLER: In response to the member for Mackay, I should say that, if a man returns to the community with the same problems he had when he entered prison, he will not be a different person simply because he served time. If, while he is in prison, he can be shown that he can become a useful member of society something wUl have been achieved for society as well as for him. Members of our society want some guarantee that when these people go to prison, they are not simply incarcerated and do not return to the community with exactly the same problems they had when they were imprisoned. Prisoners must be given the opportunity to prove that they are willing to work and that they want to leam a particular occupation. Having proved that, it is in their interests and in the interests of the community that they be allowed to work. The Minister for Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs wants the rest of the time allotted for this debate to make his reply. I am grateful for the 10 minutes that I have been allowed to speak and I wiU take some other opportunity to continue my arguments. Hon. G. H. MUNTZ (Whitsunday—Minister for Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs) (9,26 p,m,): In my opening remarks I indicated that I was proud to open the debate on the Estimates of my departments and I also indicated my interest in hearing the contributions of honourable members. I would like to thank honourable members from all sides of the Chamber for their contributions. Quite a lot of contributions, particularly from Govemment members, have been thoughtful and positive, I wUl not be able to reply in detail tonight to all the points that have been raised, but I assure all honourable members that when I have had the opportunity to study their contributions in detail, I will reply in writing if such a reply will be of assistance. To Opposition members I say that the Welfare Services and Ethnic Affairs portfdio deals with many people who are in trouble as sensitively as it possibly can. COnstmctive criticism is welcomed by any Minister; destructive criticism is not of any value. Although Mr McElligott made a useful contribution, his speech made the usual plea for more money and more staff. It is tme that, overall, resources both financially in real terms and in staffing numbers have not increased greatly. It is my aim, however, that through the reorganisation that is taking place within the department, a more effective delivery of welfare services will be achieved. The honourable member may rest assured that the Government is not mnning away from its responsibility in this field. The ABS figures show clearly that Queensland, when the complete field of welfare is taken into account, does not lag behind the other States. Indeed, it is well to the forefront in welfare spending. I was interested to note that the honourable member agrees that Commonwealth funding for many of its welfare programs falls far short of the real need. As the honourable member will be ayvare, the Commonwealth Govemment withdrew funding specificaUy for women's refuges and the State Government had to fund these programs. It is tme that they are not funded 100 per cent, but any reasonable person wUl surely reaUse it is not possible for any Govemment to totally fund all welfare programs. Finally, I am pleased to note the Opposition's support for the Year of the FamUy. I thank Mr Cahill for his thoughtful and well researched contribution. I wiU look m detail at the matters he has raised and will confer with my coUeague the Minister for Health about the services available to disturbed youth. I am glad that Mr Cahill was able to put the grants commission figures into their proper perspective for the benefit of members of the Opposition who have consistently misinterpreted the Grants Commission findings and recommendations. In the general justice system, as it appUes to adults, the Govemment clearly recognises civil as distinct from criminal jurisdiction, but this is not always recognised m the juvenUe field. Mr Cahill has referred to many of the causes which lead to delinquent and anti-social behaviour. He is to be congratulated on his analysis of these causes. He also referred to proposed changes in the way of handUng juvenile offenders under new legislation to repeal the Children's Services Act. I can assure honourable members that this new legislation is close to completion and I hope to introduce it in this Chamber early in 1984. I am sure that the member for South Brisbane wiU be interested. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 971

The honourable member for South Brisbane adopted a very negative approach. He again quoted those misleading figures on welfare expenditure in Queensland. It iU behoves the honourable member to decry the abilities of senior pubUc servants in my department. The Queensland Government gives high priority to women's refuges. Last year 2200 women and 3 200 children were helped. Presently, 21 refuges and one rape crisis centre receive assistance. This wiU be increased in 1983-84 to 23 refuges. Queensland, because of its method of funding which makes the different groups mnning refuges raise 12^ per cent of their total costs, has been able to help more women than other States where 100 per cent funding is provided. For instance, Victoria funds only 18 refuges, and South AustraUa 11. Last year the Department of C3iildren's Services provided emergency reUef to over 15 000 parents and dependants. This year, my department will spend around hah a milUon doUars on emergency reUef. In addition, homeless youth receive special assistance through the Youth Services Scheme. As far as child care is concerned, Queensland spends far more on pre-school education than New South Wales. Figures are available to prove this point. The honourable member for Condamine (Mr Littleproud) drew attention to the fact that a department which includes a Division of Youth must not dhect all its resources towards deviant youth. He said that it must also support young people and their famiUes who are coping and doing well in our society. I thank him for drawing attention to the various programs for all youth which have been brought together in the Division of Youth within my department. He also referred to the work of the Recreaition COuncil. One of the aims of the Recreation COuncU is to help people to spend. leisure-time positively. The Recreation CouncU, in establishing its facilities, is providing the structures for positive use. It is up to the community to use them. It is up to all members to play their part in advertising that they are available. Finally, Mr Littleproud drew attention to the fact that the International Youth Year wUl be administered through my portfoUo. Together with the honourable member, I look forward to 1985 as an excitmg year in which much will be achieved for our young people. The member for Archerfield launched his usual vitriolic attack on the prison system and prison officers. The Chief Superintendent (Mr Bill Deichsel) showed great courage at all times during the prison riots and is to be comm^ided for his diUg^ice and calm handling of the situation. He personally took charge of the situation. It is certainly not to the credit of the honourable member that he attacks dedicated officers under the privilege of Parliament when they are unable to defend themselves. Fortunately, very few people take any notice of him. He has been one of the greatest causes of trouble in Her Majesty's Prison, Brisbane. So far as his personal attack on me is concerned, I would simply say that I would rather be known as a clone of the Premier than as the clown of Inala. The honourable member for Gheenslopes (Mrs Harvey) referred to the famUy and the pressures which the family is facing in today's society. She also referred to the Govemment's contribution to the assistance of women who need refuge. This financial year, 23 refuges and one rape crisis cwitre wiU receive financial assistance, with two extra refuges being funded. This is in sharp contrast to the number funded in Victoria. I have noted the member's reference to the problem of the aged who are pushed off into institutions or languish in high-rise units, and this is one of the reasons why the Queensland Govemment has seen fit to declare 1984 as the Year of the FamUy. We want to make the pubUc aware of the meanmg of family life. 972 20 December 1983 Supply (Estimates)

As Mrs Harv^ said, the families that are managing to raise chUdren to be decmt citizens, under what are very often difficult conditions, deserve the applause and encourage­ ment of our community. During the year the department hopes to identify and develop the types of supportive services which must be made available to famUies to help them cope. The honourable member for Redcliffe (Mr White) spoke kindly of the officers of my department. I support his sentiments. He was supportive of the programs being undertaken by the department and he may be assured that the process of decentralisation and the delegation of decision-making will be continued. Likewise, the process of reform that is under way in the correctional area will be maintained. The regulations under the Adoption of Children Act are close to finalisation and should be proclaimed at an early date. I thank the honourable member for Fassifern (Mr Lingard) for his remarks about prisons. In those remarks he has provided the Committee with some details of the positive and productive side of the prison system, which is totally neglected by the Opposition. He has referred to the Opposition's preoccupation with improving the conditions of prisoners and its lack of emphasis on the need to provide proper assistance and training to prison officers. Mr Lingard also referred to the success of the communhy service order scheme, and I thank him for those remarks. He has briefly referred to juvenile crime. Coming as he does from the position of headmaster of the largest high school in the State, he would be very famiUar whh the temptations and peer pressures to which young people are subject. My officers and I will study his remarks with a great deal of care. Mr Lingard referred to Boys Town, which is m his electorate. This instituticm continues with its splendid work and the Govemment wUl continue to support it financially. The honourable member for Windsor (Mr Comben) is obviously not up to date with his information about the Probation and Parole Service. His trendy, left-wing economic analysis of the comparative costs of imprisonment and community service provides little comfort to the victims of crime. Like most members of his party, his sympathies seem to be with the criminals rather than with their victims. I often wonder whether the Labor Party is looking for potential candidates from the Brisbane Prison to contest the Federal election next year or the 1986 State election. The Government is actively promoting community service orders for less serious offences. It has proved a great success. The fine option program wiU be operative in the new year. * Additional staff have been appointed to the Probation and Parole Service, and a further submission will shortly be made to the Public Service Board. The rest of his contribution was so far astray that it is not worthy of further comment. The member for Gympie referred to the reorganisation of the Department of CSiildren's Services. The key to that reorganisation is simply to place decision-making power close to the population that it serves. He also drew attention to the decentralisation of the Recreation CouncU's activities. He referred to the very sensitive area of adoptions. Those honourable members who were in this Chamber at the time wiU know that the Adoption Act was amended recently to bring adoption practices into line with social changes. I thank the honourable member for drawing the committee's attention to the legislation, and I am pleased to inform him that I expect to announce that the Adc^tion Tribunal envisaged in that legislation wiU be established early in 1984. I thank the member for Gympie for his contribution to the debate. The member for Wolston spoke in glowing terms of officers at the Wacol Pristm. I support his comments. They are an excellent group of officers. I did withdraw permission for a group of parliamentarians to visit the Wacol Prison owing solely to the tension that is present throughout the prison service as a result of the Brisbane riots. Supply (Estimates) 20 December 1983 973

The Goodna Neighbourhood Centre is doing an excellent job. Following representations from the executive committee last week, I wiU allocate funding for the current year. The member for Wolston criticised the professionalism of newly qualified social workers. Young people cannot be blamed simply for being young. They are a dedicated group of people doing an excellent job. The member for Cooroora drew my attention to the assistance given by my department to the Surf Life Saving Association. That association of young men and women, who very often place theh lives at risk to save others, cannot receive too much praise. I thank the honourable member for bringing it to the attention of the COmmittee. He also referred to voluntary rescue services, which this year have received an allocation of $406,8(X). Again, I am indebted to the honourable member for drawing the attention of the Committee to such a worthy organisation. Finally, the member for Cooroora drew attention to the wUlingness of my department to work with the voluntary sector. I assure him that it will continue, I agree entirely with the comments made by the member for Ithaca (Mr Miller), He showed his usual warmth and concem for people. He stressed the importance of rehabiUtation, I appreciate his remarks in which he suggested that inmates should be placed in work within our prisons. Approximately 60 per cent of prisoners attend work in prison, I cannot, how­ ever, support the establishment of industry by Government in competition with private enterprise—certainly limited service facilities—to provide the needs of that institution. I again thank honourable members on both sides of the Chamber for their contributions. I thank the Govemment members of the committee, who have supported me, for their contributions and the assistance that they have given to me during the past few months, I am sure that the Government and the community will be much richer for that. The Department of Welfare Services must deal with persons who are very often deeply hurt by personal problems that are not always of their making. Some of the people with whom we come in contact become quite angry and vindictive. My department and its officers are as sensitive to the needs of our clients as they can possibly be. In cases in which firm handling is required, that firmness is tempered with justice and understanding. I am proud of the department for which I hold ministerial responsibUity. I am determined that the good record that it has established will be maintained and, where there is room for improvement, there will be improvement. Once agam, I thank honourable members for their contributions and suggestions. At 9.39 p.m..

Votes passed under Standing Order No. 307 and Sessional Order By agreement, under the provisions of Standing Order No. 307 and the Sessional Order agreed to by the House on 14 December, the questions for the following Votes were put by the Chairman and agreed to— Welfare Services and Ethiuc Affahs— $ Chief Office, Department of Welfare Services 6,646,100 Balance of Vote, COnsoUdated Revenue and Trust and Special Funds 74,040,400 Executive and Legislative, Balance of Votes 11,488,3(X) The Premier 24,439,584 The Treasurer 553,899,892 Employment and Industrial Affairs 18,481,800 Environment, Valuation and Admmistrative Services 51,768,909 Health 789,935,210 Industry, Small Busmess and Technology 12,402,413 Justice and AttomeynGeneral 60,353,900 Lands, Forestry and Police 221,414,114 Local Govemment, Main Roads and Racmg 9,358,795 Mines and Energy 18,390,480 974 20 December 1983 Mr Speaker's Ruling

Northern Development and Aboriginal and Island Affairs 27,861,099 Primary Industries 85,093,128 Tourism, National Parks, Sport and The Arts 51,289,391 Transport 823,130,030 Works and Housing 136,586,400 Trust and Special Funds Estimates, Balance of Estimates 4,127,549,561 Loan Fund Estimates, Balance of Estimates 316,172,354 Supplementary Estimates (Consolidated Revenue) 1982-83 207,281,591 Supplementary Estimates (Tmst and Special Funds) 1982-83 215,327,918 Supplementary Estimates (Loan Fund) 1982-83 21,815,327 Vote on account, 1984-85 1,720,000,000 Resolutions reported, and ordered to be received on Thursday next.

MR SPEAKER'S RULING Motion of Dissent Mr WRIGHT (Rockhampton—^Leader of the Opposition) (9.51 p.m.): I move— "That Mr Speaker's ruling, given on Thursday, 15 December, in regard to a request by the member for SaUsbury, Mr Goss, that offensive words used by the Minister for Justice be withdrawn, be dissented from." It is with great regret that I move this motion on behalf of the Opposition, but it is important that the House have the opportunity to debate the rights of members of Parliament within this Assembly. There are two issues at stake here: firstly, that the Minister for Justice and Attorney- General was not required by the Chair to withdraw words that were said by the member for Salisbury to be offensive to him; secondly, that at a later hour Mr Speaker determined that he would introduce new mles as regards the Standing Rules and Orders relevant to the rights of members to seek the withdrawal of unbecoming or offensive words. I refer honourable members to Standing Order No. 110. Members wUl note that under Standing Order No. 110, members have a right, with the indulgence of the House, to make a personal explanation. Members will note that one must seek the support of the House to make that personal explanation. However, if one looks at Standing Order No. 115, one sees that it is clearly noted that a member may rise to speak to order, or upon a matter of privUege suddenly arising. The member is not required to seek the indulgence of the House. There is no requirement of support of members; it is simply a basic right and a privilege, combined, to rise on a point of order. If one refers then to Standing Order 119, one notes that it says that a member shall not use unbecoming or offensive words in reference to another member of the House. Where there is not a specific reference in the Standing Rules and Orders, it is incumboit upon this House to refer to Standing Order 333, which says— "In aU cases not speciaUy provided for these Standing Rules and Orders, or by Sessional or other Orders, resort shall be had to the Rules, Forms and Usages of the Commons House of the Imperial Parliament of Great Britain and Ireland for the time being ..." Although there is not a specific requirement for the Chair to insist that words be withdrawn, the Standing Orders say very clearly that, in the first instance, a member shall not use unbecoming or offensive words in reference to another member. The coroUary of that, therefore, is that should those words be used, they should be withdrawn. However, that is supposition. Mr Speaker's RuUng 20 December 1983 975

One goes back to "Erskine May", which surely is the authoritative volume when it comes to the Standing Orders of the House of Commons. At page 430 of "Erskine May- Parliamentary Practice", this appears— "The House of Commons will insist upon all offensive words being whhdrawn, and upon an ample apology being made, which shall satisfy both the House and the Member to whom offence has been given." So I put it to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, that the Chair has no discretion; there is no need to seek the support of the House. If unbecoming or offensive words are used, the House shall insist that these words be withdrawn. As you, Mr Deputy Speaker, are well aware, the House, meanmg the Speaker in charge of the House, or the Chairman as such—^he or she—shaU requhe—^m fact, shaU insist—^that unbecoming or offensive words be withdrawn. That has been the practice in this Chamber for the 15 years that I have been here. In fact, it has been the practice in recent days. On the day prior to the day on which the honourable member for Salisbury sought the whhdrawal of the words offensive to hhn, Mr Speaker required him to withdraw certain words that he was using in a speech that was relevant and related to the Minister for Justice. Mr Speaker insisted that the honourable member whhdraw those words irrespective of whether or not the offensive or unbecoming words were stated. I am sure that other honourable members who take part in this debate wiU put forward other instances of insistence—without debate; without any sort of condition— that the member alleged to have used the words should withdraw them. Honourable members who have been here for any length of time wiU appreciate, as you do, Mr Deputy Speaker, that we have all said something in a speech and been bound to withdraw it, whether we believed the words were offensive or not. There is good reason for that. It could well be that words used against me or against another member of the Chamber may be offensive to me or to that other member but not to someone else. It could be that a member is of a political or religious persuasion; he may have some association with an organisation or he may have a professional link. The words used relating to that organisation or profession may be personaUy offensive to Bim. That is not for the Chair to judge. The Standing Rules and Orders do not aUow that. The Qiair has no discretion. When it comes to the use of unparliamentary words for which precedents have been set, the Chair decides that the words are unparliamentary and shaU be withdrawn at the request of the Chair. In this instance, there is no discretion as to what is offensive or unbecoming; it depends upon the attitude of the member who is maligned or offended. In this typical example, the member for Salisbury stated—it was not as if he simply said, "I want those words withdrawn."—according to the "Hansard" proofs— "Thank you, Mr Speaker. My point of order was that the Minister's comments are untrue. I find them personally offensive." He coukl have left it at that, because the Standing Rules and Orders say that if a member finds words offensive they shall be withdrawn. "Erskine May—^ParUamentary Practice" says that the House shaU insist upon that. But the honourable member for SaUsbury did not leave it at that; he said— "I seek their withdrawal." He then went on to explain in these terms— "Very briefly, the Minister referred to my making comments about the Legal Aid Commission. That is untrue. He made reference to the Law Reform Com­ mission. It is in the record of yesterday's debate. The Minister's remarks are offensive to me and I seek their withdrawal." Quite obviously the offensive words related to the fact that the honourable member for Salisbury is also a professional man—a lawyer. Words that were used by the Minister for Justice referred in part to the honourable member's role in his professional capacity. It is understandable that if other members were suddenly attacked in some way and their profession was involved, the words could be offensive. It is not up to me to deckle; it is not up to the CSiair to decide; it is not up to the Premier to decide; h is not up to the House to decide. It is up to the individual member to stand and say that 976 20 December 1983 Mr Speaker's Ruling the words are unbecoming or offensive to him and demand—in fact, insist—.that they be withdrawn. There is a requirement on the Chair, representing the House, to see that the words are withdrawn, I said that there were two issues at stake. The second one concerns Mr Speaker's saying, in explanation of a request by me— "I have to rule on this matter. I wUl make a further mling later, if the Leader of the Opposition will bear with me. I will say now that if a member takes objection to something said by another member in this House and it is considered to be personally offensive, I will require the member to clearly state the words personaUy offensive to him. I wUl require that procedure to be adopted in the future. If the words are clearly offensive to the member, I will require them to be withdrawn." With all due respect to the high and honourable office of Mr Speaker, there has never been a practice in this House under which a member is required to specifically, clearly or in any other way state the words that are said to be offensive. I can find no requirement in the rules or practices of the House of Commons which binds this Parliament when its Standiiig Rules and Orders have no specific provision. There is no requirement for any member to stand up and specifically say or repeat the offensive words. I suggest that if that ruling were enforced, it could become quite embarrassing. In the heat of the moment, a member could say that another member was involved in certain types of unfair, unscmpulous and immoral practices. Under that ruling the member asking for a withdrawal would have to repeat that statement. It has not been the practice of the House, and it should not become the practice. Members of the Opposition are in an awkward prosition. They respect the Chair, and I gave a personal undertaking to Mr Speaker that Opposition members would stand by him and work with him. The ruling that has been given does not lie with ruUngs that have been given in the past; it flies in the face of the Standing Rules and Orders that have operated in this House for many years. It is with regret that I have moved this motion. It wiU be supported by other members of the Opposition. Mr DAVIS (Brisbane Central) (10,1 p.m,): It is very difficult for me to have to disagree with a ruling given by Mr Speaker but, if the ruUng that Mr Speaker gave last Thursday stands, it will make the working of this Parliament intolerable. I have been a member of this Assembly since 1969, and I suppose that that would be the most difficult mUng that I have heard made in this Chamber. It relates to objections taken by members to words that they find to be personally offensive. The other day, Mr Speaker said that if a member finds words offensive he, Mr Speaker, wiU require them to be withdrawn but that if the words to which objection is taken are merely a repetition of what another member has said, the member taking the objection may seek leave to make a personal explanation. I put it to this (Chamber that, if that ruUng stands, it will make the House quite unworkable. I have looked through the indexes that are to be found at the back of the bound volumes of "Hansard" and found that in the Subjects Index, under "Mr Speaker", "Chairman of Committees" and so on, there is an entry which reads "Statement or denial by members must be accepted." I shall refer to some ruUngs that have been given by Speakers and Chairmen in the past. I refer, firstly, to a ruling given by the member for Ithaca (Mr Miller), who recently was nominated for the position of Speaker of this Parliament. He was an outstanding Chairman of Committees. Sir WilUam Knox: Why didn't you support him? Mr DAVIS: For the benefit of the leader of the Liberal Party I point out that the Opposition did support the member for election to the position of Speaker of this Parliament. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Row): Order! There is far too much audible conversation in the Chamber. I ask the House to come to order forthwith. Mr DAVIS: According to "Hansard", the member for Woodridge (Mr D'Arcy) was speaking and Dr Edwards took a podnt of order and said that the article to whidi the honourable member was referring was totally inaccurate. The member for Woodridge Mr Speaker's Ruling 20 December 1983 977 was made to withdraw his statement; there were no ifs or buts. On another occasion, a point of order was taken about a very small offence, but the then speaker, Mr Houghton, ruled that the words had to be withdrawn. I refer to an interesting ruUng which concerns the Premier. Again, the Speaker was Mr Houghton. The member for Mackay (Mr Casey), who was then Leader of the Opposition, was speaking and the Premier rose to a point of order. He said— "The honourable member is in enough trouble already today. I would suggest to him that he try to play it a Uttle bit cleanly tonight for the remainder of this sitting," The member for Mackay asked "What is your point of order?" Mr Speaker said, "Order! What is your point of order, Mr Premier?" The Premier repUed— ". I do not have any control over what honourable members on this side of the House say. They are quite free to say what they wish, and they have done just that." He wanted three nebulous words to be withdrawn. Mr Speaker made the member for Mackay withdraw those words. You, Mr Deputy Speaker, in your former role as Temporary Chairman, and more recently as Chairman of Committees, in response to members asking for words to be withdrawn, have asked words to be withdrawn. If the motion is not agreed to, from now on Mr Speaker, you as Chairman of Committees and all the Temporary Chairmen will be bound by Mr Speaker's mling. That raises the question: If a member asks that words be withdrawn and if Mr Speaker rules that the words used are not offensive, how does the member concerned reply to the allegations that were made? He would have to do so by way of a personal explanation. However, when will the member be able to make a personal explanation? A Government Member: By leave of the House, Mr DAVIS: That is so. He would need to have the leave of the House, However, the situation would become ridiculous, because members would be taking up question-time by making personal explanations. On occasions, members have asked for the withdrawal of words that are offensive to political parties. It would be ridiculous if, on every occasion that words that were supposedly offensive were used, members sought leave to make personal explanations. Opposition members cannot accept Mr Speaker's ruling; they know it is wrong, Mr Austin: Why don't you sit down? We have had enough, Mr DAVIS: I am glad that the defector from the Liberal Party to the National Party interjected, because he would be one person who would support Mr Speaker's ruling. No matter to which political party a member belongs, Mr Deputy Speaker, the ruling concerns the Parliament as a whole. You and the present Minister for Education, who was formerly a Temporary Chairman, have ruled that a member can ask for the withdrawal of offensive words on just about any subject, and on each occasion the words have been withdrawn. The Opposition urges honourable members to agree to this motion. If it is not agreed to, problems will arise not only for this Parliament but also for democracy as a whole. Hon. D. F. LANE (Merthyr—Minister for Transport) (10.7 p.m.): What a great fraud members have seen here tonight! What hypocrisy is being shown by the Opposition members in this Parliament! Opposition Members interjected. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Row): Order! I ask honourable members to restrain themselves. Mr Warburton: Is the word "scab" offensive to you? Mr LANE: Is that acceptable behaviour in the Chamber, Mr Deputy Speaker? Opposition Members interjected. 978 20 December 1983 Mr Speaker's RuUng

Mr LANE: Has the behaviour of Opposition members over the last 30 seconds been acceptable, Mr Deputy Speaker? Or would you find it disorderly? Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I ask the Minister to continue with his speech. Mr LANE: I would be happy to do so, Mr Deputy Speaker, if I could be heard. However, that is something that I have difficulty in achieving while Opposition members are yelling at me constantly and en masse. I am casting aspersions on the Leader of the Opposition and his unruly rabble, who have the hide to talk tonight about parliamentary democracy, the Westminster system and what they describe as becoming behaviour on the part of members of Parliament. Tonight they have behaved like rabble. As soon as I began to speak, we saw an example of the brawling and the rows that go on within the ranks of members of the Opposition. Of course, that is not uncommon in the personal behaviour of Opposition members when they are outside the Chamber. But I will not refer to that matter tonight. If I were to do so a couple of very senior front-benchers on the Opposition side would be greatly embarrassed. The facts, of course, are well known. This debate is about whether the new member for Salisbury can find something offensive in remarks made by a member on the Government side of the House. As I read the Standmg Orders—and I do not intend to adopt the bush-lawyer tactics of the Leader of the Opposition or to use the legalese that no doubt the lawyer wiU try to adopt—they require that the statements made by a member that are objected to are either unbecoming or offensive, not that they are untme. Whilst I have been a member of this Assembly, the tradition has been that comments had to be personally offensive, not offmsive to one's party or one's political beliefs. The political beliefs of all of those members opposite are very offensive to me. I do not ask that they withdraw from the Qiamber because thdr statements are offensive to me. That is one thing that a member must put up with in poUtics. The new young member for Salisbury has come into this Qiamber and caimot stand the heat so he should get out of the kitchen. Mr Deputy Speaker, I would ask you: What happens when the tmth is offensive? That is exactly the situation with which the House is faced. The Minister for Justice and Attorney-General has said something that he daims is true. It is something that the outside world accepts as being true. Because it does not happen to suit this delicate little flower who now represents Salisbury, the poor man says that it is offensive and asks that it be withdrawn. As I said, if he cannot stand the heat, what is he doing in the kitchen? I have sat in this Chamber during the last three weeks and I have been called every scurrilous name to which Opposition members can put their tongues. There is no doubt that they will keep it up. That does not worry me at aU. As a matter of fact, Boggo Road gaol is full of people who called me names. Some of them are of higher personal standard than many Opposition members, particularly the member for Port Curtis. Even though something offensive is true, it is little grounds for this motion. Of course, it is about something much deeper. I wish to refer to another facet of this debate—the real story behind what has been happening. For two days last week this Chamber was treated to a spectacle \^^ich did nothing to enhance the claims by the Ojjposition that it intends to act responsibly in matters pertaining to the management of this place. The Leader of the Opposition poses on television. However, when he enters this (Chamber his conduct is contrary to the conduct that he seUs publicly. The newly elected member for Salisbury joined issue with Mr Speaker on a point of order in relation to the judiciary. During the debate on Matters of PubUc Interest, the honourable member alleged that the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General had undermined public respect for the integrity, ability and independence of the judiciary. The honourable member apparently believes that he is still the leader of the Labor Lawyers Association. He had the opportunity to range far and wide in the pubUc arena. He did not accept the responsibility of meeting his peers on an equal basis, as he must do now in this Chamber. I remind the new honourable member that he must meet members on an equal basis in this Chamber. He does not have the opportunity of meeting in the bar with the Labor lawyers, plotting what he will tell the press in the morning and having no accountability for his words. He must measure up in this place. That is what he will be required to do during the next few years. Mr Speaker's Ruling 20 December 1983 979

At this early stage it is quite clear that he mtends to issue a challenge to the Leader of the Opposition as soon as possible. What he is trying to do in this exercise is upstage the very insecure Leader of the Opposition. The Leader of the Opposition already knows that. Last Thursday he moved to take over the issue by questioning Mr Speaker's ruling and later by moving a motion of dissent. The Leader of the Opposition cannot afford to concede the floor of this Chamber to the very ambitious apprentice Leader of the Opposition in this House in the shape of the honourable member for Salisbury. Honourable members can see the writing on the waU. They appreciate what lies in store for this House in years to come. The honourable member for Salisbury knows that the poshion of the Leader of the Opposhion has been made insecure by the recent election and his very poor performances in the House, particularly in recent times. Perhaps if he went to bed earlier he would be able to perform better in here. His job will certainly come up for grabs before very long. Opposition Members interjected, Mr LANE: They cannot take it. The cat-callers on the other side earn their reputa- tiMis by yelling. The rowdy mob on the other side earn their endorsements by yeUmg at the Govemment. They cannot take some of theh ovm medicine. The job of the Leader of the Opposition will certainly come up for grabs before very long. The ambitious lawyer, who has been a political nonentity so far, is beginning to throw down the gauntlet to the Leader of the Opposition. Last Thursday, when the Minister for Justice and Attomey-General gave him an adequate and sound answer—and I emphasise that—^the member for Salisbury blustered and went to water through a sequence of demands for withdrawals. He cannot take it. That is always a sure sign of inadequacy in this place. It is also a method of attracting the interest of the media through flamboyant but empty noise and gesture. Last Thursday the honourable member was proved wrong by the Minister for Justice and Attomey-General. He should put up or shut up. The Leader of the Opposition has moved this motion with the clear intention of embarrassing the member for Salisbury by having him appear to have initiated rowdy debate whhout any substance to his argument. I think we would all concede that the Leader of the Opposhion is a very well-practised talking machine. He is employed on that basis, because that is all he has to offer the members of his party. When they see past that, there wiU be a successor. In my opinion, it is a very smart move by the Leader of the Opposition to hold to ridicule the political aspirant to his throne. It was ridiculous for a legal man to use as the basis for a speech in the debate on matters of public interest a newspaper article based on hearsay evidence, without any direct evidence at all. His training should requhe the production of proof, not of hearsay. Consequently, his utterances now and henceforth wiU be viewed without substance and with suspicion in this House. He made his run too early, and he has been put down tonight. There is another aspect of importance. Throughout the year the Opposition has com­ plained about the parUamentary shtings and the legislative program. It is essential, in the interests of the people, that Parliament be able to do its work and not be continually harrassed. Because of the election this year, there is a very tight session with much important legislati(m to be written into the statute-book, and much other work to be done. The Budget was pre­ sented, appropriation had to be secured and the tradhional Estimates debates had to be given prominence in the business of the House. It is essential that legislation bearing on the Budget be introduced and debated seriously. That cannot take place if we have such nonsense across the floor when a delicate member on the other side finds himself damaged. It would seem that the Opposition is more concerned with time-wastmg. It is time the Oppositi(Mi recognised that the Government has a mandate from the people for governing this State. Hon. Sir WILLIAM KNOX (Nundah) (10.18 p.m.): When Mr Speaker was elected to his high office, we said that we would support him in his endeavours to look after our interests and the corporate responsibUity of the House. AU members should endeavour to support Mr Speaker. We wUl do so on this occasion. Opposition Members interjected. Sh WILLIAM KNOX: Indeed, we will. 980 20 December 1983 Mr Speaker's Ruling

However, some aspects of the ruling objected to cause us concern, and I intend to mention them. Other speakers from my party wUl also do that. AU members are equal in the eyes of Mr Speaker. There is no rank when Mr Speaker looks to the left or to the right. It is true that we defer in this House, as happens in other Legislatures under the Westminster system, to the Premier and to the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition. That is as it should be. That is agreed to without reservation. In this Parliament, every member can look to Mr Speaker for protection of his position and the rights laid down in the Standing Orders and in the laws of the land—the (Criminal Code and other legislation establishes rights for members of the Legislature. Mr Speaker is the executive officer and sees that those rules are enforced. In the incident that led to this debate, the honourable member for SaUsbury, a new member, was given three chances by Mr Speaker to present his claim in the correct form. But for the help of the Opposition Whip, I doubt whether the honourable member would have been able to do that. Mr Fouras interjected. Sir WILLIAM KNOX: The honourable member might wish to refresh his memory, but the honourable member for Salisbury was given three chances. Mr Speaker acted correctly and went to considerable lengths to ensure that the honourable member was able to exercise his rights in this (Chamber. What concerns me and a number of other members in this House is that this matter need not have been debated and could well have been settled behind the Speaker's chair. The Leader of the Opposition and the Minister involved could well have resolved the matter with the Leader of the House behind the Speaker's chair. There would then not have been the need to embarrass Mr Speaker with this motion so early in his career. The Liberal Party has considered the ruling given by Mr Speaker on this matter and welcomes it. It is the first time for many years that the House has had a considered ruling on the vexatious matter of the circumstances under which words are recognised as being offensive. That ruling should be supported by every member of this House, Once Mr Speaker ruled on the offensive words, he made another ruling, which is the subject of this motion. The Liberal Party has reservations about that ruling, I am disappointed that Mr Speaker did not apply that new ruling in this case, because it was a case on which he had already given a ruling. The honourable member for Salisbury had raised the matter that now concerns the House, I might say that most honourable members regard the remarks of the Minister as trivial and not usually offensive. Nevertheless, the member for Salisbury regarded them as offensive, and every member of the House is entitled to have such offensive matters brought to the attention of the House. I remember a classic instance in which a Deputy Speaker refused to direct a member to withdraw words that the Premier found offensive. Only because the Premier has to support Mr Speaker on every occasion did he not disagree with the Deputy Speaker on that occasion. However, the Premier was right and the Deputy Speaker was wrong. On this occasion, Mr Speaker was mistaken when he ruled on this issue. I regret that he did not apply his new rule, as he should have. The accusation of misrepresentation is offensive in this House as it is in all Legislatures under the Westminster system. Accusations of misrepresentation are offensive words and should be withdrawn, I wish the Minister, who is a new Minister, had withdrawn them, and I wish that the honourable member for Salisbury, who is a new member, had been able to couch his objection in the correct form. Mr Speaker, who is new to his office, has erred, but the Liberal Party supports him and his office. I bring the matter to his attention and hope that in future such an occurrence can be averted. Although Mr Speaker has erred, he does not deserve a censure of this nature. Mr Speaker's Ruling 20 December 1983 981

Mr (JOSS (Salisbury) (10,24 p,m,): When I came to this place, I was given to understand that Standing Orders would apply equally to all members, I make plain that that is all I seek—that Standing Orders be applied equally to me and to other members of the House, including Ministers, In particular, they should have been applied to the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General on the preceding day. If the standards espoused by the Minister for Transport (Mr Lane) had been applied on the day in question, this debate would have been unnecessary. Unfortunately, those standards were not applied by Mr Speaker, so this debate is necessary. The Minister for Transport made some complaint about the possibility of my using what he called "legalese" I assure him that I will endeavour to keep my contribution simple so that it can be clearly understood. The Minister referred to my sensitivity on the matter. I assure him that I am not greatly troubled by it. The remarks were unbecoming; they were offensive. I was disappointed in the response of the Qiair and of the Minister. However, although my sensitivity is not particularly troubled, the words were unbecoming and offensive, and, for that reason, I sought treatment equal to that meted out the preceding day, following the dispute between me and the relevant Minister. However, that did not occur. The Minister for Transport referred also to the question of the leadership of the honourable member for Rockhampton. I assure the House that I have a quite different attitude to my leader than that which the Minister for Transport displayed to his leader in September and October of this year, and that I am proud to join in the unanimous support that members on this side of the House have for Mr Wright, the leader of the parliamentary Labor Party—support which his leadership has continued to justify, 1 will refer now to the transcript of the proceedings of 15 December. I point out that on eight occasions it was drawn to the attention of Mr Speaker, by me and by other honourable members, that the withdrawal of certain comments was sought. I said that I wanted them withdrawn, I said also that they were personally offensive. Notwithstanding that, no action was taken. I was only seeking the same treatment as was given to the Minister for Justice the day before. The Minister for Justice used terms such as, "I take exception to the remark and ask that it be withdrawn." At no time did he say that remarks made by me were unbecoming or personally offensive. Notwithstanding that, Mr Speaker could not move quickly enough to put the matter to me, I withdrew the remarks without hesitation because of Mr Speaker's ruUng; not because I accepted what the Minister for Justice said—it is hard to do that at the best of times—but because of my understanding of Standing Orders, namely, that if another member finds something unbecoming or offensive, a member is obliged to withdraw it. I co-operated; I did the right thing and complied with Mr Speaker's ruling. I am disappointed that the Minister for Justice was not minded to act in the same way, Mr HARPER: I rise to a point of order. I find the words used by the honourable member incorrect and personally offensive. At no time was I asked by Mr Speaker, who had charge of the House, to withdraw my remarks, I find the words being used by the honourable member for Salisbury personally offensive, and I ask that they be withdrawn, Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Row): Order! I find it difficult to determine whether in fact the member for Salisbury has at this moment used any words that could be regarded as being offensive. In the interests of the continuance of this debate, I will not accept the point of order. Mr GOSS: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, However, let me assure you and the House that if at any time it is considered that I have made remarks that are unbecoming or offensive, I will happily withdraw them, I think that the Minister for Justice has again misunderstood me. The whole incident occurred because he misunderstood me on 14 December, and then made another mistake. The reference by the Minister for Justice that caused this whole problem was an unwarranted interjection by him in which he said— "I rise to a point of order, I find the honourable member's remarks offensive. He iUustrated his lack of understanding of the system when he criticised appointments to the Law Reform COmnussion, which had to be made under terms of legislation." 6085^—34 982 20 December 1983 Mr Speaker's Ruling

There are two points to be made. Firstly, in my speech up till that time I had made no reference to the Law Reform Commission. The second mistake he made was Mr HARPER: I rise to a point of order. It appears to me that the honourable member is reading from galley proofs. I understand that they cannot be used. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Row): Order! I will not accept that as a point of order. Mr GOSS: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is interesting that the Minister for Transport should talk about sensitivity. Perhaps he will discuss that concept with the Minister for Justice, I was pointing out that the Minister for Justice made two mistakes. Those two mistakes were understandable because he is fairly new in his portfolio and it is a difficult one. Those two very basic mistakes made by the Minister for Justice resulted m this whole confrontation, this whole sorry episode. Mr Wright interjected. Mr GOSS: I am very distressed that it could not be solved. I am very distressed that this debate was necessary and that the Chair should be reflected upon. My leader and other Opposition members did aU in their power to try to resolve this matter whhout the necessity for this unsavoury debate. However, as happens so often, the Government specialises in unsavoury debate and is descending to that level again. Again, on 14 December, the Minister for Employment and Labour Relations said, "Sit down you mug." No action was taken and I do not seek that it be taken. But that was the tone of the debate and the tone of interjections coming from the Government side. On three occasions, Mr Speaker said to me that he sought a withdrawal. Without equivocation, I made the withdrawal notwithstanding that, in my view, the Minister for Justice failed to abide by the Standing Orders and failed to comply. As I said, he is a new Minister, but he has been in this place longer than I have, 1 should have thought that he would have known the Standing Rules and Orders and would have used the correct terminology. As it turned out, he did not. That point was not taken. I complied with Mr Speaker's ruling. The next day, when I tried to raise the same point, I was ruled out of order. When I was finally able to make my point, I said that I wanted a withdrawal. That point was made shortly after by the honourable member for Chatsworth and my leader. Notwithstanding that, no action was taken. As I have said, on eight occasions other members and I drew the attention of Mr Speaker to the offensive words and the fact that we sought their withdrawal. They were not withdrawn. That was a very disappointing day for this Parliament. The Minister for Justice claimed that the Labor Lawyers Association and I sought to denigrate the courts. I presume that he was referring to the Supreme Court. I make it clear that other Opposition members and I have the greatest respect for that institution, I am an officer of that court and the terminology used by the Minister is quite offensive to me as a member of Parliament and as an officer of the Supreme COurt. I am disappointed that he does not understand and does not recognise that principle. By maintaining his seat and not volunteering to withdraw as he should have done, he has undermined the position of Mr Speaker. I again stress that all I seek is the same application of the Standing Rules and Orders as was applied to the Minister and is applied to every member on the Government side of the House. I seek equivalent treatment. The only difference between me and the Minister for Justice is that he belongs to another party. That is not a sufficient reason for the distinction, but it is the only reason I can see, I am very disai^>ointed, I still seek equal treatment, Hon. L. W. POWELL (Isis—Minister for Education) (10,34 p,m.): I have no doubt that honourable members opposite would be a little embarrassed about bringing on this motion of dissent from Mr Speaker's ruling because, in fact, Mr Speaker was perfectly correct in the way he mled. I draw the attention of honourable members to the 20th edition of "Erskine May—Parliamentary Practice" An Opposhion Member: What about equal treatment? Mr Speaker's Ruling 20 December 1983 983

Mr POWELL: I repeat that I draw the attention of honourable members to the 20th edhion of "Erskine May—Parliamentary Practice" at page 447 under the heading "Right of Members to Direct the Attention of the Chair to Supposed Breaches of Order". Mr Prest interjected. Mr POWELL: If the honourable member for Port Curtis could contain himself for five seconds, he might learn something. No doubt that would come as a great shock to him. The relevant passage from "Erskine May" reads— "When a Member speaks to order he must simply direct attention to the point complained of, and submit it to the decision of the Speaker," If the Speaker is of the opinion that the words or conduct complained of are disorderly, he will call upon the member to conform to the mles of the House, "Erskine May" substantiates the right of the Speaker to decide by giving a precedent for that ruling as follows— "On 1 July 1952 the Deputy Speaker deprecated a growing practice of interruptions of debate by Members who, 'when the hon. Member who is speaking refuses to give way, think that the only way that they can get their word in is by raising a point of order'. He stated that in his opinion such intermptions constituted fraudulent points of order, and should be stopped," All honourable members should agree with that particular mling which is contained in "Erskine May" because it is high time that this debate took place. Members of this Parliament should recognise that there are too many fraudulent points of order being taken. Members are rising to complain about something that they think is wrong. If one looks at the "Hansard" record of last Wednesday's events, one will see that the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General rose to a point of order because he believed that the member for Salisbury was quoting a newspaper article that was incorrect. The member for Salisbury correctly withdrew his statement but, unfortunately, quaUfied the withdrawal. "The Courier-Mail" of the following day reported the event, I suggest that if "The Courier-MaU" had recognised and accepted that a withdrawal had been made by the member for Salisbury, this particular event would not have occurred. Because "The Courier-MaU" reported the events, the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General had no alternative but to make a ministerial statement. In that statement he gave information which the member for Salisbury beUeved to be incorrect. It is not wrong for a member to give information as he knows it at the time of his speech. If it is to be accepted that points of order can be raised because a member speaking gives information that another member believes to be incorrect, no speaker would complete a speech in Parliament. Mr Davis interjected. Mr POWELL: The member for Brisbane Central is always incorrect in what he says. It is important that the ruling reported in "Erskine May" that Mr Speaker has the right to decide whether the point of order is valid, or that words that are spoken are offensive, be accepted by this Parliament. I do not believe that points of order should be raised when a topic is being debated. I see facts in a certain light and Opposition members see them in a different light. It is reasonable that that should take place in a debate. After the kerfuffle was all over on Thursday, the honourable member for Salisbury acted properly in making a personal explanation. That is what should be done. If a member believes that something has been said incorrectly, the Standing Orders provide that a member may seek leave to make a personal explanation. "Erskine May" goes on to say that it is normal for the House to accept that a member should be allowed to make a personal explanation. This House ought to adopt that practice as a standard practice. That would be better than having frivolous and numerous points of order taken. This House should confirm once and for all Mr Speaker's right to decide whether the words spoken are offensive and, secondly, it should confirm once and for all the right of a member to be able to stand in his place and make a personal explanation when he believes that he has been misrepresented. 984 20 December 1983 Mr Speaker's Ruling

Mr Warburton: That is an entirely new matter. You are not on the right track, Mr POWELL: I am on the right track. The point I am making is that many fraudulent points of order are taken in this Assembly. Mr Wright: That is not what this debate is all about. Mr POWELL: That is clearly what the debate is all about. Mr Wright: You are wrong. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Row): Order! In view of the seriousness of this debate, I ask honourable members to make their points clearly and concisely. In the circumstances, it is reasonable that honourable members be heard in sUence without frivolous interjections or unnecessary points of order, Mr POWELL: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, Some members of the Opposition have missed the point of the debate entirely. I am firmly of the opinion that this Assembly needs to establish once and for all the right of Mr Speaker to decide whether a point of order is valid or not, Mr Speaker must have the right to decide whether or not a member has been maligned. I say quite bluntly that I have no truck with members who besmirch other members of Parliament or people outside this Chamber. I believe that a member of Parliament has the right to make a personal explanation after a member who has made remarks offensive to him has sat down. Such a procedure is a much tidier one. Mr Wright: He has to seek the leave of the House. Mr POWELL: That is quite correct. However, usually leave is given. And that is how it should be; leave should be given. Mr Speaker's right to rule should be upheld by this Assembly. I could not possibly agree to the Opposition's motion. Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt Coot-tha) (10.43 p.m.): The motion before the Chair is one of dissent from Mr Speaker's ruling, I propose to deal with it on the merits of the case and regardless of personalities. The motion involves the right of a member to take a point of order when he considers that certain statements or words spoken are offensive to him, and to request that the words be withdrawn. A statement, order or ruling by Mr Speaker that an honourable member will not take another point of order, in the context in which such a ruling was given, is not, in my view, in accordance with the procedure of this place. I believe that Mr Speaker, in making that ruling, placed an unacceptable restriction on the honourable member concerned, which is contrary to accepted parliamentary practice and, of course, cannot be tolerated. I have no argument against—indeed I welcome—the ruling that Mr Speaker handed down for future reference when exception is taken to personally offensive words when used, or the manner in which this will be handled by Mr Speaker, As I said, I welcome the ruling. The main point is that the interpretation of Standing Orders and the procedures adopted in this place should be clearly defined, understood and consistent, Ahhough I do not agree with Mr Speaker's handling of the situation, I think that tolerance should be shown towards Mr Speaker, Like my leader, I do not intend to vote for the motion, I will vote against it, for the following reasons. Firstly, Mr Speaker is new to the office and has not had any previous experience in the chair. Honourable members must accept that. For that reason alone he deserves the support of the House at this early stage. It is an experience that surely will not be repeated. I am sure that the House would agree with that. Finally, the House should show tolerance towards the office of Speaker, which office has the responsibility to protect the rights and privileges of all members in this place. However, there arises a very important question that must be answered to clarify this situation. The Mr Speaker's Ruling 20 December 1983 985

question is this: Does an honourable member have the right to ask for the withdrawal of words that he finds personally offensive to him; if not, does Mr Speaker accept the respon­ sibility of determining what might or might not be offensive to an honourable member? If nothing else comes out of this debate tonight, that is a question that must be answered, because all honourable members wUl want to know that. Honourable members I am sure would agree that Mr Speaker would find this a rather unenviable task, if not an impossible one. During my period of office as Deputy Speaker and CHiairman of Committees, it was accepted that if an honourable member stated that certain words were offensive to him, he could on a point of order ask that those words be withdrawn. The practice was—and in my view still is—for Mr Speaker or the Chairman of COmmittees, as the case might be, to request the honourable member stating those words to withdraw those words. That seems to be the crux of the issue at hand at the moment. It would be my wish, and I am sure the wish of other honourable members, that more consistent rulings be introduced into the proceedings of this Chamber, Whilst that rests heavUy on the shoulders of Mr Speaker, the Chairman of Committees and the panel of Temporary Chahmen, it is also incumbent on all honourable members to co-operate to enable the smoother operation of this Parliament,

Mr CASEY (Mackay) (10,47 p,m.): Firstly, I feel obliged to compliment Mr Speaker for having vacated the chair during the currency of this debate. During the time that I have been a member of this Assembly, this is the first occasion on which I have seen Mr Speaker, on a motion of dissent from his ruling, leave the chair and not rule on it. In the past, because that was not done, it was very restrictive and very unfair on the Parliament, The debate has gone off the track a little. It is about the Standing Orders and the application of the Standing Orders, I was disappointed that the Minister for Transport intro­ duced the subject of offensive behaviour. Of course, that is something of which he is quite a good proponent, I feel quite sure that the Liberal Party in Queensland would express the same feelings, especially the Liberal voters in the electorate of Merthyr, During the time that I have been a member of this Assembly, he is one of the few Government members who has been thrown out of this Chamber. That made some history. The important part of Standing Orders is that this House must follow its own rules. That is why from time to thne debates take place on Standing Orders and why from time to time they are changed to make this Parliament a contemporary Parliament, It is Mr Speaker's job to ensure that Standing Orders are followed. I cannot agree with the assertion made by the honourable member for Nundah that, as the member for Salisbury is a new member, he should have followed the example that has been set and be correct in the way in which he proceeded in this House. A perusal of the mlings from the Chah during the period that the member for Salisbury and those other members elected at the most recent election have been in this Chamber will reveal that they have been inconsistent, most irregular and certainly do not conform with the Stand­ ing Orders or the rules of practice of this C3iamber, I have found them very hard to follow. Many long-serving members of this Assembly no doubt found some of those rulings hard to follow. If the rulings in "Hansard" are examined one by one, which time does not allow this evening, it will be found that my statement is correct. Members on both sides of the House must expect consistency in rulings from the Chair, That certainly did not happen whh the honourable member for Salisbury. That has not happened whilst he has been a member of this Assembly. There have been attempts by the Premier—I think it was the Minister for Transport who mentioned this—to lead the House. It may have been the honourable member for Nundah who said that at one stage during the debate the Premier was attempting to direct Mr Speaker. That is offensive to the House and certainly not in conformity with Standing Orders. There is a danger in mlings being given that members should not take points of order. I stress that Standing Orders, "Erskine May—^Parliamentary Practice" and any other book on parliamentary practice that members might wish to examine clearly point out that it is a basic right of a parliamentarian to take a point of order, just as it is a basic right of a parliamentarian to move dissent from the ruling of Mr Speaker or the Chairman of Committees, "An Encyclopedia of Parliament" by Wilding and Laundy 986 20 December 1983 Mr Speaker's Ruling

stresses that a member should bring to the notice of Parliament any breach of order. It is the responsibility of each and every one of the 82 of us to be the custodians and guardians of Standing Orders and to see that they are adhered to. On many occasions points of order have been taken when a contrary point of view has been expressed. That is rather unfortunate. I tender this advice to Mr Speaker: in many Parliaments the practice is for Mr Speaker to seek another point of view. In this instance, when the point of order was taken, Mr Speaker could have asked the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General to give a further explanation of the point he was trying to make and to which objection was being taken. That would have given Mr Speaker a little more time to assess the weight of argument, aUowing him to determine whether or not Standing Orders were being breached. If he had done that, he would have ascertained clearly that it was the Minister for Justice who was in breach, not the member for Salisbury. This debate would then have been unnecessary. It is an unfortunate practice that points of order are taken to contradict a statement made. However, Mr Speaker must ensure that Standing Orders are not contravened by any member. That is what this debate is all about. It is about Standing Order No, 119, and even Standing Order No. 120. It is about unbecoming or offensive words or personal reflections. Honourable members must therefore reject the ruling; otherwise it wUl stand and may unfortunately, contrary to Standing Orders, be used on other occasions against honourable members. Mr MILLER (Ithaca) (10.53 p.m.): "Good temper and moderation are the character­ istics of parliamentary language. Parliamentary language is never more desirable than when a member is canvassing the opinions and conduct of his opponents in debate." Those wise words are the background of the Standing Orders of the House of Commons. They are also the background of the Standing Orders of this ParHament, My leader and the honouraUe member for Mt Coot-tha have aheady indicated that the Liberal Party will not be supporting the motion of the Opposition. However, I do not want Parliament to beUeve that I either condone the action of the (Thair or agree with the ruling given by the Chair, because I do not. I beUeve, as do the member for Mt COot-tha and my leader, the member for Nundah, that Mr Speaker has not had the opportunity of being able to "feel" Parliament. The chair of Mr Speaker is a very lonely one to sit in, Mr Hamill: You are having two bob each way. Mr MILLER: It is not a case of having two bob each way. It is a case of giving to the Speaker of this House an opportunity to "feel" the Parliament. We are giving him that opportunity. Shakers' rulings must not be taken as a precedent. Although Mr Speaker has made a ruling, it has not been considered by the Standing Orders Committee. That committee has not placed a recommendation before the Parliament, which obviously has not accepted any recommendation from the Standing Orders Committee. I stress that even though the Govemment will win this vote tonight An Opposition Member: With your help. Mr MILLER: The Government will win this vote tonight with or without my help, because the Labor Party cannot even be here in force. If the Oj^XKition thought that this motion was so important, it should not have allowed any of its members to be absent. Opposition Members interjected. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Row): Order! There is too much audible conversation in the Chamber. Honourable Members interjected. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The Chamber will come to order. I want complete silence. I call the honourable member for Ithaca, Mr Fouras interjected, Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I wam the member for South Brisbane under Standing Order 123A. I asked for silence and the honourable member did not obey. Building Units and Group Titles Act, Ac, Bill 20 December 1983 987

Mr MILLER: Standing Order No. 119 has been the mle by which this Legislature has conducted itself for as long as I have been a member. A perusal of previous Standing Orders shows that it has been the mle since this Legislature was formed. I had the ParUamentary Library check on the very first set of Standing Orders that controlled this Legislature and the words were exactly the same as they are today— "A Member shall not use unbecoming or offensive words in reference to another Member of the House." Parliament after Parliament has found no reason to change those words and Parliament after ParUament has demanded that any member using offensive words against another member withdraw those words. I am a little surprised that the Qiair on this occasion did not extend to the member for SaUsbury the same privUege that is extended to other members of the House. It is a basic principle of Parliament that it is here to control the destinies of the people of Queensland. Unless aU honourable members have the same protection from the C^hair, they cannot control the destinies of the State. The House of COmmons agrees with what I say, I am afraid on this occasion I cannot agree with the Minister for Education, because the Standing Orders of the House of COmmons require the withdrawal of unbecoming words when they are offensive to the member concemed. Only one House of Parliament does not have the same condition, that is, the House of Representatives in Australia, Many years ago that House decided to give the right to Mr Speaker to decide when words were unbecoming. Mr COmben: We don't follow them, Mr MILLER: Of course we do not follow them. When the House of Representatives decided to allow the Speaker of that ParUament to decide whether or not words were offensive, its Standing Orders COmmittee made recommendations to the Parliament, which accepted those recommendations. That is the point I am making tonight. A Standing Order cannot be changed by the Speaker of this Assembly. When the House of Representatives changed its Standing Orders, it was on the recommendation of its Standing Orders Committee, That recommendation went before the whole Parliament, and that has not been the case in this Parliament. As far as I am concemed. Standing Order No. 119 still stands, and every member of this Qiamber who finds words offensive to him has the right to have them withdrawn until this Parliament changes that Standing Order in accordance with a recommendation from the Standing Orders COmmittee. Motion (Mr Wright) negatived.

BUILDING UNITS AND GROUP TITLES ACT AMENDMENT BILL Second Reading—^Resumption of Debate Debate resumed from 13 December (see p. 605) on Mr Harper's motion— "That the Bill be now read a second time." Mr R. J. GIBBS (Wolston) (U.l p.m.): I make it very clear at the outset that Oi^ibsition members find themselves in somewhat of a quandary because, to be very honest, we find it extremely hard to rise in this place and defend the actions of some of the greedy developers who scrfd units off the plan at many times their cost—I do not place aU developers in that category—or unscrupulous speculators who used a loophole in this legislation to deliberately get out of what were business deaUngs to which they should have been committed. I recall that at the height of the unit boom in Queensland, in my capacity as the Opposition spokesman I had occasion to visit a number of areas on the Gold COast and the Sunshine COast and look at some of the developments that were taking place. I well remember one Saturday morning being taken to a unh site in C^oundra overlooking the beach and the ocean where a developer had only just commenced excavating the foundations of the unit block. The first thing that had been built was a helipad. When a person showed interest in purchasing a unit off the plan he was placed in a helicopter and taken up 988 20 December 1983 Building Units and Group Titles Act, &c.. Bill to the approximate height of the floor of the unit in which he was interested. If he was interested in a unit on the sixth floor, he was taken up in the helicopter to that approximate height and the salesman then commenced his pitch on the basis that what the prospective purchaser could see was the sort of view that he would be able to obtain from his front balcony when the units were completed. A number of people who purchased those units off the plan paid only a very small amount of cash up front. Their interest was purely speculative. The units were sold many times prior to their completion, and when the crash came many people got their fingers burnt. When debating this legislation this evening members should give cognisance to remarks that were made not only in the Queensland Supreme Court by Mr Justice Connolly but also in the High Court by the Chief Justice (Sir Harry Gibbs) and in the Federal Court by Justices Mason, Dean and Dawson. I will quote a number of their comments because sensible, thinking members should have regard to them when making a decision about this legislation. I refer, firstly, to a decision of Mr Justice Connolly in the Queensland Supreme Court. He said— "Finally I would permit myself to observe that this legislation has proved a fruitful source of quite unmeritorious defences for purchasers who, in a falling market, desire to extricate themselves from their bargains. It may well be that the need to give additional protection to purchasers of home units become apparent but to give a purchaser the right to discharge the contract at any time and even after completion provided only that he had not become aware of the faUure of the vendor to provide some piece of information which is not demonstrated to be of any real concern to the purchaser would seem to be going further than ds necessary. The current spate of litigation has demonstrated that purchasers in this situation never read contracts. If it be the law, and it has not been necessary to decide it in this case, that the purchaser may put the contract into his or his solicitor's drawer without reading it, complete it, enter into possession and enjoy the use of the home unit for years and then avoid the contract because the s. 49 statement failed to set out his own address, then something would seem to be radically wrong." That is a very pertinent point for members to consider later in this debate. Sir Harry Gibbs, the Chief Justice of the High Court, said— "It wUl have been apparent from the nature of this discussion of the questions involved that s, 49 creates considerable difficulties of construction and is likely to lead in some cases to inconvenience or injustice. The remedy however lies in the hands of the legislature." That is an appropriate and correct statement to make.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is too much audible conversation in the Chamber and too many members roaming round the Chamber. I ask them to resume their seats.

Mr R. J. GIBBS: It is regrettable that this evening the Legislature is required to act basically on the interpretation of the Chief Justice, in the full knowledge that the Government in this Parliament this evening, and the coalition Government prior to its dissolution this year, was aware of the problems in this area for some two years. Indeed, the former Minister for Justice and Attorney-General (Mr Doumany) is on record as saying some 12 months ago that a watchful eye was being kept on the legislation and that legislation was in the pipeline. I am reliable informed that legislation, basically, was being considered some 18 months ago. I quote now from a number of statements made by Justices Mason, Deane and Dawson in these terms— " interpretation unless one can impute to a purchaser knowledge of the requirements of s. 49. We would be inventing a new doctrine of constructive notice if we were to hold that a purchaser is "aware" of a failure to comply with particular statutory provisions when he knows the facts, even though he is ignorant of those provisions and of the obligations which they impose. not only knowledge that a statement containing the specified material has not been given but an awareness that the fact that such a statement was not given constitutes a 'faUure' to do something which the Act says should be done." Building Unhs and Group Titles Act, &c.. Bill 20 December 1983 989

Justice Deane said— "It is apparent from their technical nature and operation that the provisions of s, 49 of the Act are capable of being abused in much the same way as the pro­ visions of former money-lending legislation were capable of being transformed from a safeguard for disadvantaged borrowers into an instrument of injustice in the hands of the unprincipled. Plainly, there is a need for legislative action either to modify the requirements of s, 49 of the Act or to empower the Courts to grant relief, in an appropriate case, against the consequences of an innocent failure to comply with them," I return to my original comment that if people involved in the development of units in Queensland from the developer to the purchaser were spoken to, they would give varying points of view. It is the responsibility of members of Parliament to interpret the most sensible course for the Parliament to follow, I believe, as do other Opposition members, that members are bound by the law as it is determined by the High Court of Australia, which is the highest legal authority in the land. Opposition members do not believe in retrospective legislation. That is consistent with decisions made by the High Court. The Opposition will not support retrospective legislation in any way. Regardless of any points that he made or of his mish-mash approach, when he introduced this legislation the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General said— "Such an interpretation shall apply to the giving of a judgment or of a decision of any court, whether at first instance or on appeal—" they are important words— "after the commencement of the Bill upon the appUcation of section 49 (5) of the Building Units and Group Titles Act 1980 to the avoidance of a contract, agree­ ment or other document whenever the proceedings in which the judgment or decision is to be given was commenced," The highly important words are— '^ in which the judgment or decision is to be given was commenced." Regardless of the way in which the Minister will refer to this legislation, it is regulatory legislation and it is retrospective legislation. My interpretation, and that of legal people in this State, is that this Bill is being back-dated to 1980, when the legislation was originally introduced. This Bill illustrates the hypocrisy of the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General and, more importantly, of the National Party, Clause 1.3 of the National Party's Justice policy states— "The National Party-Queensland believes that retrospective legislation is incompatible with the Rule of Law." A number of weeks ago, when knowledge of this sordid affair broke to the public, the Premier said that he was not prepared to support retrospective legislation. At that time a group of developers from the Gold COast was flying to Kingaroy to have audience with the Premier. The Minister for Justice and Attorney-General made a statement that was completely contradictory to that of the Premier. Although the Minister for Justice and Attorney- General has suffered public defeat and public castigation by the Premier, at least the comment that was attributed to him originally on this legislation shows that he has got his own way and has convinced the Premier, There is no doubt that the introduction of the Bill is a very deliberate attempt by the Govemment to protect its friends in business. The people who are to be protected under this legislation probably contributed bags full of money to the National Party campaign at the recent election and also to the Bjelke-Petersen Foundation, Probably most of the Gold Coast businessmen who flew to Kingaroy to see the Premier are in that group. The Government has become completely paranoid since the High Court made its decision on the Franklin Dam in Tasmania, This legislation is a deliberate and determined attempt by the Government to undermine the authority of the High Court of Australia. The Government is prepared to zero in on and torpedo the High Court at any cost. That is one of the main intentions of the Bill. 990 20 December 1983 BuUding Units and Group Titles Act, &c., BUI

It is grossly hypocritical for the Government to introduce retrospective legislation. Incidentally, I wUl be very interested to see where the members of the Liberal Party stand on this issue. In the Federal Parliament the members of the Liberal Party and the National Party were not prepared to support retrospective legislation that was brought forward by the ALP Government to combat tax evasion schemes, or, should I say, bottom of the harbour schemes. However, when it suits them to do so, they shed any principle that they have and, as the Government has done on this occasion, introduce restrospective legislation. On behalf of the Opposition, I allege that this BiU is a deliberate attempt to torpedo and embarrass the High Court of Australia. I should like to quote a number of authorities that members should be made aware of. Firstly, the citizens of Queensland have a constitutional right under section 73 of the Commonwealth Constitution to ap|>eal to the High COurt on Supreme Court judgments. Section 73 of the Commonwealth Constitution provides— " the judgment of the High Court in all such cases shall be final and conclusive," It stands as a point of law that when people are involved in litigation, including appeals, such litigation shall be heard on the basis of the legislation of the day. It is known that at present other cases concerning this problem are before the courts. That litigation has been based on an interpretation of the existing Act. If this restrospective legislation is passed, the litigants' rights at law will be severely affected. This retrospective legislation will affect those cases that are now before the courts. Other problems arise in relation to this legislation, I concede that the intent of the original legislation was to protect the purchasers. Even the dissenting judge in the High Court, Mr Justice Taylor, noted that the statute reflected a firm resolve on the part of the legislature to protect the purchasers of home units with quite specific statutory remedies. There was nothing odd or obscure about the legislation, and, indeed, it was quite apparent that the vendor was well aware of it and simply got it wrong. I can recall that at the time when the original legislation went through this Assembly, the then Minister for Justice and Attorney-General (Mr Lickiss), on 26 July 1980, attended a seminar in Brisbane on the Act, before the legislation had been proclaimed, and proudly boasted about the very careful process that was involved in drafting the Bill and introducing it as law. He referred to the fact that the Government prepared a number of discussion papers, conducted seminars at such legal Meccas at Surfers Paradise and Cairns, allowed documents to lie on the table of the House, invited opinion and canvassed interested persons, including developers. At that seminar, commentators pointed to the very serious consequences that would follow if the developer did not comply with the Act. As I said at the outset, it was obvious that the legislation was designed to protect the purchaser. I have no argument against that. The Minister for Justice will probably refer to that point in his reply later tonight. In looking at the whole problem that is involved in this legislation, I think it is fair to say that alternative measures are available to both vendors and purchasers who are offended by this legislation. Opposition members do not believe in retrospectivity, and will not support it, I, together with a number of people in the community, believe that the simple solution lies with the agents or solicitors who handle these contracts on behalf of vendors or purchasers. After all, they are paid quite handsome fees. On the sale of a home unh for the sum of $200,000, an agent receiving standard commission plus a 1 per cent overrider would have eamed $7,250, That is not a bad amount of money for a reasonably smaU amount of work. The soUcitors acting for the vendor would have earned $1,222 according to the relevant scale. It must be remembered that, in the case of multiunh development and multiselUng off the floor plan, those figures would have been muhipUed many times over. It is a fact that soUcitors are covered by compulsory insurance. It is quite feasible for purchasers or vendors who feel aggrieved to charge solicitors with being negligent in interpreting section 49 of the Act and getting retribution in that way, I wish also to make reference to the fact that there is one rule in Queensland for developers of land and another rule for developers of home units. Probably the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General was not a member of this Assembly when a particular Building Unhs and Grroup Titles Act, &c., BiU 20 December 1983 991

matter blew up. Honourable members will recall the situation that arose in connection with the development of Bundilla Lakes, Legal proceedings were successful in the courts against people who attempted to sell off the plan land at Bundilla Lakes before subdivision was finalised. At least those people had something tangible at the end. Most of them obtained satisfaction and received their blocks of land prior to subdivision being approved. At least they received a block of land, although the Government said that that was illegal. In this instance, honourable members are asked to agree to the passing of legislation that allows people to buy off the plan something that is not tangible at the time and not be adequately covered by legislation. If developers of multiunit sites wish to operate in the market-place in that way, the onus should be on them to be careful to ensure that they abide very carefully by the rules properly laid down by the Government and this Assembly, I reiterate that the Opposition is not prepared to support the legislation, I can see the gUnt in the Attorney-General's eye. Obviously, acting on the advice of his legal adviser (Mr Martin), he will come out later with a broadside and say that the Opposition's interpretation is not correct. It comes down to the semantics of the law. The honourable gentleman can stand up all night and put forward all the legal mumbo-jumbo that he Ukes. He may call it regulatory legislation or whatever he likes; in fact, it is retrospective legislation, and the Opposition will not have a bar of it. Mr BORBIDGE (Surfers Paradise) (11.23 p.m.): In speaking in support of the legislation before the House, I say at the outset that it is being watched with a great deal of interest in the area that I represent. Its quick passage by the House is vital for the continued economic development of the Gold Coast and for the whole home-unit and building-unit industry in the State of Queensland. The amendments before the House uphold the original intention of the legislation and the interpretation of the Act by the Supreme COurt of Queensland, As the honourable member for Wolston mentioned, the legislation has been introduced as a result of a majority 3:2 ruling by the High COurt in Deming No. 456 Pty Ltd and Others and the Brisbane Unit Development Corporation Pty Ltd. It is important that honourable members reaUse that the legislation will prevent people from deUberately reneging on contractual obligations by using section 49 of the old Act, Mr Innes interjected, Mr BORBIDGE: I do not think that the member for Sherwood has visited the Gold Coast lately, because I notice that he intends to move an amendment at the Committee stage. I point out to the honourable member that that amendment would be grossly out of touch with the feelings of the vast majority of people whom I represent. I suggest to the member for Sherwood and to other members of the Liberal Party who may be opposing the legislation—as well as to members of the Opposition—that their action will not be well received tomorrow in areas such as the Gold Coast, It is noteworthy that, since the High Court decision, several notices have been issued under section 49 of the Building Unhs and Group Titles Act on units on which settlement had been effected months ago. That point should be emphasised. I am personally aware of several examples. It is a rort and a racket to negate contractual obUgations when, for various reasons, unit demand and prices may have dropped significantly. That abuse of section 49, I contend, was never intended when the legislation was first submitted to the House, The Government action has been open and proper. Immediately after the High Court decision, the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General examined the matter with officers of his department and announced what the Govemment would be doing, Mr Innes interjected, Mr BORBIDGE: I cannot accept that anyone wUl be disadvantaged by the passage of the amending Bill, In fact, h wiU be quite the opposite. If honourable members who are interjecting want to place Queensland's strata title laws in doubt and to seriously jeopardise the continued development of buUding unhs and home units—and investment in the State of Queensland—I respectfully suggest that by their comments here tonight they are going the right way about it 992 20 December 1983 Building Units and Group Thles Act, &c.. Bill

This legislation will protect genuine investors. As the Minister indicated in his second-reading speech, the legislation will not affect final judgments of a court or past settlements but will return the law to the meaning intended by the ParUament and as upheld by the Supreme Court of Queensland. The legislation provides that for a contract, agreement or other document to be avoided after the introduction of the Bill the purchaser will have to prove that he was materially prejudiced. The Minister made those points per­ fectly clear when he brought the legislation before the Parliament, That is fair and proper. The community in general will welcome the contents of the legislation. I commend the Minister and the Government on their prompt action in overcoming a potentially dangerous circumstance that could have had very far-reaching implications on the legal, business and investment community, when the spirit of the Parliament, as supported by the Supreme Court, had been overruled and placed in doubt. I contend that there is no alternative for the Government or the Minister than to proceed with the legislation in its present form. It will preserve confidence in Queensland's strata title laws. I am aware that other members wish to speak, so I wUl keep my remarks comparatively brief. However, I reiterate that people who oppose the legislation in the Parliament tonight, or who seek to amend it, wiU have a case to answer tomorrow in those areas of Queensland where the building unit and home unit industry is a very vibrant and integral part of the local economy. I support the legislation, Mr GOSS (Salisbury) (11,29 p,m.): I will be mercifully brief, given that the member for Wolston has ably and comprehensively covered the legislation and our attitude to it. The need for the amendment arises from the negligent and sloppy drafting of the original Act, It is as a result of the Government's own negligence that litigation has been generated and the amendments become necessary. In effect, the High Court has said not much more than that the word "shall" means "shaU", For the Minister to say that the High Court has adopted a literal interpretation is farcical. In saying that the Minister is not on firm ground, I refer to the precis of legislative Acts in which the Government describes this legislation in the following terms— "Special duties of full and complete disclosure of matters such as proposed lot entitlement, proposed by-laws and management agreements are imposed on the original proprietor or developer. Failure to comply with the provisions will authorize a pur­ chaser to void a contract," The use of the language is quhe deliberate, as it is in section 49 which, in subsection 1, states— "An original proprietor shaU give to the purchaser a statement in writing in compliance in every respect . . " Subsection 2 states— "A statement in writing under this section shall. . , " It goes on to state the requirements. Subsection 3 of section 49 states— "A statement in writing under this section shall, " At all times the legislation uses quhe precise legal terminology and the High Court has simply applied a commonsense meanmg and a commonsense interpretation to the words of the Government's own statute. The Government has made this about-face and now wants to fix the legislation. Why is that? Perhaps it is because of the plane-load of goodwill that visited "Bethany" recently. It was from that meeting that the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General got his riding instructions and now the legislation is before the House, Members on the other side of the House often moan, grunt and groan about the High Court and use with gay abandon such adjectives as "centralised", "socialist", "humanistic", and "agnostic" The point of the matter is that the nation's highest judicial body has simply interpreted the meaning of the Govemment's legislation m a proper and commonsense way. Justifiably, the Government is embarrassed at its negligent and unskilful drafting. However deserving they were, litigants took their chances and played their hands, relying on the plain meaning of the Government's legislation. Now, at the behest of certain developers, they have been deprived of their previously existing rights. Retrospectivity Building Units and Group Thles Act, &c.. Bill 20 December 1983 993 is generally reprehensible and not something that the Labor Party would support, and it does not do so on this occasion. Exceptions are reasonable, particularly in the face of artificial and contrived schemes in the taxation area, which are based on loopholes in taxation legis­ lation. That is different from what is now under debate because that closes a loophole, whereas this Bill actually changes the plain meaning of the Government's legislation. That has been caused by the original inept, bad drafting, of which the Government has been aware for some time and certainly before the High Court decision. However, it has been caught out and now scurries along to the Parliament to fix the legislation for the very special constituency of the member for Surfers Paradise (Mr Borbidge), The fact is that the vendors, their agents or their solicitors simply got it wrong. As the member for Wolston (Mr R. J. Gibbs) has correctly pointed out, those people earned very high fees for fairly ordinary services and perhaps their clients should look to them. I raise the question that when people have suffered damage, negligence such as that perpetrated on the part of this Government normally calls for some sort of compensation. Where is the compensation for those litigants who will suffer, will lose rights and will lose their money because of the Government's about-face? A compensation action has been taken by the Government on behalf of one group of people. Special treatment has been contrived foi that group, as undeserving as they are. That special patronage typically characterises the attitude of the Government in many fields. Subsequently this evening I understand that the member for Sherwood wUl move an amendment to the legislation to date the right to give a notice as from today. I am pleased that the member for Sherwood, by formalising the objections of the Opposition, supports the arguments advanced by the member for Wolston and his objections to retrospectivity.

Mr JENNINGS (Southport) (11.35 p.m.): This is a fascinating debate based on a lot of legal argument opposed to what the man in the street wants. Back in 1980, which is the time to which this Bill relates, a large number of advertisements appeared in the press to the effect that people could buy units off the plan. If a developer started building a block of units and placed a large sign outside, what happened? Mr Innes: What did the salesman say?

Mr JENNINGS: He said, "Look, here is an opportunity to buy in the best place in the world to live," The honourable member for Sherwood knows that there is no better place to live than the Gold Coast, In 1980 there was nowhere else in the world where a person could pay a dei>osit of $5,000 or $10,000 on a beachfront unit with views of the Pacific Ocean, The honourable member can argue all he likes, but nowhere else in the world could a person pay $5,000 or $10,000 to purchase off the plan a unit with a view as good as the one he would get of the Pacific Ocean from that unit. That is what it was all about; the salesmen did not have to sell anythmg. The honourable member for Wolston said that this Bill has been introduced to protect the purchasers of units. It has not been; it has been introduced to protect the future of Queensland, It was introduced to protect investment in Queensland. People were flocking here. Salesmen did not have to sell anything. All that was needed was for a visitor to get up in the mommg and see the sun shining on the surf. Mr Simpson: Is this a sunrise Bill?

Mr JENNINGS: As the member for Cooroora said, it could be called a sunrise Bill. Mr Innes: You've had too much sun,

Mr JENNINGS: I might have had too much sun, but that does not concem me. There is a skin cancer problem in Queensland because it has so much sunshine. Queensland has a bright future, and that is what this Bill is all about. It protects Queensland's bright future. The honourable member for Wolston said that the Bill is retrospective. It is in no way retrospective legislation. Mr Innes: Rubbish! 994 20 December 1983 Building Units and Group Titles Act, &c.. Bill

Mr JENf IINGS: All the legal fellows on the other side can talk till kingdom-come. This is a beautiful Bill for them because they can say that it is retrospective. They can talk about the High COurt judgment and they can talk about what other judges have said, but in no way is this retrospective legislation. Mr R. J. Gibbs: Come on! Mr JENNINGS: No way. Honourable members opposite can talk their legal lingo all they like, but this Bill will protect a deal Mr Innes: That is not what the Minister said. Mr JENNINGS: I do not care what the Minister said. I am telling the House what I think. I am telling the House what the man in the street did down on the Gold Coast in 1980 and 1981, and honourable members opposite know it. Mr Hamill: Have you read the Bill? Mr JENNINGS: Of course I have. I am fascinated that all the characters opposite can say that this legislation is retrospective when it is not. The BiU simply validates an agreement between a buyer and a seller back in 1980. I will give members an example. Back in 1980 Mr HamiU: That is a long time ago. Mr JENNINGS: That is right. The legal fellows opposite have to consider the climate on the Gold Coast at that time. That is what the High Court should have considered and what the Supreme COurt in Brisbane did consider. In black and white, in real estate offices, on boards outside Mr HamiU interjected. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The constant interjections by the member for Ipswich are not helping at all. Mr JENNINGS: I thank you, Mr Speaker. It is one thing to have legal documents, but it is another thing to have legal considerations taking into account fully the circumstances of the day. Can honourable members imagine High Court judges in Canberra considering the facts of the day, namely, that, in black and white, signs in offices of agents carried photographs of units and houses and a big price of $100,000, with a big black cross through it, and above it the price of $110,000? In another instance there would be a price of $95,000, with a big black cross through it, and a new price of $105,000 inserted. In other words, the buyers were led to believe that if they did not get in quickly they would lose out. Those were the sale conditions of the day. That was the whole atmosphere being generated. When I first saw instances of this advertising, I said, "There is no doubt about h; I have to hand it to these guys: They are cheeky." That is what the seller was doing. He was so confident he was able to mark up the price on the board from $100,000 this week to $110,000 next week, leading people to believe that if they did not get in quickly they would lose out. The agents were selling in that way, and that is what this Bill is all about. I do not care two hoots about what the High Court in Canberra has said. Just imagine what will happen if we do not do it, Mr Borbidge: No home units will be built, Mr JENNINGS: That is right. We had to pass this legislation so that people who come to Queensland can buy in Queensland, and invest in Queensland with confidence in Queensland, knowing that the Government wiU back theh contract, AU that the Government is doing, so far as the High Court in Canberra is concerned, is acting as responsibly as it can act. The honourable member for Wolston said that it was gross hypocrisy, but it would be gross hypocrisy on the Government's part if it did not do this. The honourable member for Wolston also said that we had become paranoid since the Franklin Dam decision, I do not know about becoming paranoid, but I have never been so shocked. Building Units and Group Titles Act, &c,. Bill 20 December 1983 995

It is very important that the Government should implement this legislation tonight. In no way in the world, in my view, is it retrospective. It is validating a contract between the buyer and the seller in which both the buyer and the seller were happy. The price was shown in black and white, and the buyer was always happy. I support this legislation 100 per cent. If we do not pass it we will destroy future investment in Queensland, Mr INNES (Sherwood) (11.44 p.m.): We have been treated to an entertaining, energetic contribution by the member for Southport, which was largely irrelevant and entirely erroneous. Opposition Members interjected, Mr INNES: He is always engaging. He talked about the man in the street, and the mood or climate of the boom. There was a deal of truth in what he said. The numbers were going up like poker machines— four oranges all the time. In reality, the real estate agents, acting as the front line for the developers, were pushing and encouraging; they were caught up in the boom mentality. Their spiel was, "Buy now; put a deposit down. You will not have to settle; it will sell three times before the units are completed." Everything I say is absolutely correct. The member for Southport knows that. He is nodding his head. Some very simple things had to be done. The Parliament was seized of the sorts of problems that were being faced, and which are always faced if something is sold that does not exist. There is a prohibition against selling real estate that does not exist, A prohibition exists against selling any more than five subdivisional lots. Anything big is protected by law until it is completed by subdivision. No-one can sell off a plan. That is done for a very good reason. What did the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General say this morning when he was asked by the member for Russia about some transaction in north Queensland? A Government Member: Who is the member for Russia? Mr INNES: The member for Townsville West (Mr SmUh). He asked the Minister about a real estate transaction, and the Minister said that in relation to any transaction of that magnitude, the person concerned would be advised to see a solicitor instantly and get proper advice. That was the response. At the time that this legislation was originally introduced, the House used a lengthy and almost novel technique to arrive at the legislation which, it is now said, does not express the intention of the Parliament. Without special legislation, real estate that did not exist could not be sold. Special legislation was drawn up to allow this sort of transaction to take place so that the development side could be looked at and, at the same time, jyeople could be protected in an area in which the legislation expected that there would be troubles. Troubles will occur when people buy off a plan and are incapable of seeing exactly what they are buying. I will refer to the speech made by the member for Mt Coot-tha, who was Minister for Justice and Attorney-General at the time the Bill was first introduced. He referred to the extensive consultation that went on in this industry. No developer with any credibility, who had been in this State for five minutes, can deny that he had input. Following the release of proposals and working papers, seminars were held at the Gold Coast. When the document was drawn up, there was full consultation. An expert from New South Wales was brought to the seminars in Queensland. Every developer worth his salt attended the seminars with his lawyer and made an input into the discussions. It cannot be said that the words in this legislation were ill-considered. Mr Borbidge: There was concern about section 49 for some time. Mr INNES: Yes, there was concern, and it was within the Minister's justice committee at the time, of which I was a member. The Minister, with respect, talked about the intention of Parliament. He was not a member of the Parliament in early 1980 when this legislation saw the light of day. He had not been part of the discussions that took place. Mr FitzGerald: What has that got to do with it? 996 20 December 1983 Building Units and Group Titles Act, &c.. Bill

Mr INNES: It has a lot to do with this. The honourable member for Lockyer was not on the committee, either. The Minister talked about the intention of Parliament, as did the member for Surfers Paradise. I would like to discuss the intention of the Parliament. The then Minister for Justice and Attorney-General, when introducing the Bill, said— "Special duties of full and complete disclosure of matters such as proposed lot entitlement, proposed by-laws and management agreements are imposed on the original proprietor or developer. FaUure to comply with the proposed provisions will authorise a purchaser to void a contract." Mr Jennings: What date was that? Mr INNES: That was March 1980. The concern in that legislation was to ensure that if a person could not see what he was getting, basic, but full, steps had to be taken to tell a person what he was getting. An important concern was a description of the property and the lot entitlement, because the lot entitlement dictates how much must be contributed to the common pool for rates, electricity, insurance, any management agreement and anything else. At that time we on the Justice committee knew the rorts that were involved in the saddling of subsequent purchasers with expensive management agreements that they could not get out of. Those were the very practical and basic aspects that we were addressing. We were looking at ways of swindling or of putting unforeseen or very onerous burdens upon purchasers of units. Unfortunately, the Minister, in his zeal to justify a proposal that was reported upon in "The Sunday Mail" earlier this year, referred to buyers in somewhat derogatory terms, I can tell unit-buyers who hoped to renege on their contracts that it wUl be useless for them to run off to their solicitors. Buyers have to be protected, just as the other side, the developers, have to be allowed to proceed with their developments. It was in order to strike this balance that the Justice committee set out to lay down the basic requirements. There was nothing secret about it; the Minister said what would be required. Section 49 sets out the very basic requirements of address, acknowledging the two parties, the unit entitlement, and any management or other agreements. In fact, the Minister moved an amendment to ensure that other agreements were covered, because it was found that certain agreements other than pure management agreements could involve long-term financial obligations. That was all done very deliberately. The Act said that that information had to be disclosed, and the penalty for non-disclosure was the avoidance of the contract. It was simple. In this State a practice has grown up among some real estate agents to rubbish the solicitors and to get the contract signed and pass it on to the soUcitor, The practice is not to allow the solichor to interfere with the consummation of the deal. In buoyant conditions, perhaps that is all right. However, the real estate agents were so busy putting the black lines through the advertisements, as the honourable member for Southport said, and putting on new prices that they did not do the basic work. They did not put on the address, the parties or the date, and they did not refer to all the agreements. They did not do what the legislation said they had to do; nor did they do what this Parliament said it would do. Let me dwell on this intention of Parliament. I tried to ask the member for Surfers Paradise what was the intention of Parliament, The law has had to grapple with that question for a long time. Clan any honourable member, after a debate has concluded, say what the intention of Parliament is? The intention of Parliament is the Act—the words of the Act. The courts have never presumed that anything other than the Act speaks the words of Parliament. If one was to go through the debates, one would find 82 different opinions. Mr Borbidge: And you have got the High COurt giving a mling different from that of the Supreme COurt, Mr INNES: I will come to that in a moment. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The honourable member for Surfers Paradise has not done his homework. He has not ^een in the courts, he has not read the decisions, and he does not know the extent of the controversy that raged in relation to building unhs. Building Units and Group Thles Act, &c,, BUI 20 December 1983 997

Two fundamental propositions govern this debate. One is a commitment by the House to the maintenance of the rule of law. That is the first and basic requirement. The rule of law requires at least two things: certainty and equality of access. The moment that groups, no matter how important they are or how much they contribute to a certain part of a certain industry, are allowed to go to the ParUament to have the law changed retrospectively, the Govemment is demonstrating the most fundamental inequality in the law. The reason why I stand against retrospective legislation—and why, I presume, the National Party was agamst it—is that a person who wants to know the law and advise himself of it, and who seeks legal advice, is entitled to rely upon that legal advice. Today he was advised by the Minister to do that. If a person goes to a sohoitor and takes advice, he might be told, "We are not completely sure but you have a fighting chance. Our interpretation is this. Others might interpret it differently." The person might make certain decisions on that basis. If retrospective legislation is introduced, the rules will be altered. If retrospective legislation is to be introduced, nobody can ever go to a solicitor or a lawyer in the future with any certainty. The solicitor cannot advise him on the law because the law can be changed. Supposing the decision affected farmers who bought headers. If a header is purchased subject to special leasing requirements or according to certain legal requirements, a farmer might say, "I am taking advice. I am going into that," To use a simile example, suppose that a person receives a depreciation allowance for taxation purposes according to the taxation laws that presently apply. He makes his decision in good faith and he arranges his affairs accordingly. If somebody changes the ground mles and retrospectively alters the situation in two months' time, it will torpedo the basis of his actions and his judgment. A fundamental uncertainty has been introduced. Government Members interjected. Mr INNES: That is exactly what happened. That is why some Govemment members were against the introduction of the retrospective income tax legislation. Exactly the same principle is involved. Once retrospective legislation is introduced and it affects people's property rights, there is an uncertainty in the law. Once particular groups are allowed to say, "Our interests are greater than anybody else's, and in our interests you change the law backwards retrospectively," a fundamental inequality exists in the law. That is what this debate is all about. People are entitled to take whatever steps they like in negotiating a contract. If a person negotiates a contract that contains a subject-to-finance clause, that gives him a tremenous let- out. All honourable members know that. Although it is still a contract, a big let-out is given to one party. If a person entering into a building unit title contract leaves himself a door, and if he is advised by his solicitor, "Go into that contract because I can stiU see a way out if you get into a jam," that is free enterprise, A person contracts according to the terms and according to the law at that time. He does not expect the law to be changed. We are talking about the rule of law, about free enterprise and the right to contract according to the law of the day and according to the terms of bargaining that are reached with the other party. The legislation is not declaratory. The only place to which one can look for the intention of Parliament is in the words of the law. The words of the law have been interpreted. They were the subject of judicial brawls in the Supreme Court, Judges took opposing views. To give honourable members an illustration that relies on the Act, Mr Justice McPherson, whose judgment was involved on appeal in Deming's case, was confronted with the by-law situation. There was an obligation to provide a copy of the by-laws. That was a fairly reasonable proposition. I can recall that the Justice committee insisted upon that. The by-laws are basicaUy the mles which will govem the unit. When the judge heard the case in the lower court, he found that a previous judge had mled in a similar case and said that it was not necessary for the full copy of the by-laws to be provided; all one had to do was to provide the amendments proposed. It could be assumed that he had read the third schedule to the Act. If the two were put together, that was sufficient. Mr Justice McPherson followed the decision handed down by the other judge. He said, "We must have some certainty in the law. The law tries to find some certainty," He followed the decision of the other judge. 998 20 & 21 December 1983 Building Units and Group Titles Act, &c,. Bill

On appeal, when the matter was heard by three judges who tried to establish the law when somebody was prepared to jump appeal, a contrary ruling was made. It was found that full disclosure of all the by-laws was necessary, which was what the judge believed in the first instance but had been prepared to follow another judge to try to bring some order into the whole judicial precedent. However, on appeal he did what he wanted to do in the first place. There was judicial conflict about the Act from the first moment that people started to take points.

[Wednesday, 21 December 1983] The proper authority set up in our legal system to resolve those points is the High Court of Australia, Members might not like the dam decision and might have reservations about some appointments. Members are supposed not to impugn judges. However, it wa.'? the consequence of Federation, not of a Labor Government, that the High Court of Australia makes the final determination of the legal position in this country. Therefore, the reality is that the intention of Parliament has been declared by the proper authority— the ultimate authority—^which is the High Court of AustraUa, If has been said that the decision was 3:2. So it was. However, let me refer to the Chief Justice (Mr Justice Gibbs), who was one of the two. Even he said— "Not without doubt, I have reached the conclusion that a purchaser becomes aware of a failure within s. 49 (5) when he learns of the circumstances which amount to the failure, whether or not he knows " in effect, the legal consequences. There were reservations on the part of one of the two. The reality is that the intention of Parliament is the legislation. The legislation has been interpreted by the proper authority, after conflict in the Supreme Court, and that now is the will of this Parliament. Nobody can say—and certainly not the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General—that something else was the intention of Parliament. That is absolutely wrong in principle. Nobody knowing any basic principles of law could so contend. One can extend some indulgence to the Minister because perhaps he is not as well versed and not sufficiently long in office to become aware of those principles as are some other members in the House; but that is basic. Members are considering a fundamental matter of retrospectivity which is a very important principle. Just as an observation, I have reason to believe that some of the persons who so strongly and vigorously condemned the taxation legislation because of its retrospectivity—and I support their objection—are the people who now wish different standards to be used for this Act, A person who lives by the sword dies by the sword. Anybody giving away principle wanders into no-man's land and into that danger that I referred to of making the CJovernment susceptible to groups who walk in off the streets, giving them advantages over the community at large. Parliament makes laws for the people of Queensland, not for one particular group. The principle of section 49 was to protect purchasers. Let me, in concluding, refer to an observation that has been raised inferentially. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I ask the honourable member to continue his speech through the Chair, Mr INNES: I am sorry, Mr Speaker, I was suggesting only that I would take up something that another member had lighted on before, I had no intention of speaking other than to the Chair, The reality is that the consequence of passing this legislation will be to cut off legal rights that have been pursued and to negate judgments that have been achieved by pur­ chasers in this State, Purchasers are in many instances smaller people than developers. Sir William Knox: Would there be thousands or hundreds? Mr INNES: Thousands of people would be potentially affected by this problem. Certainly, hundreds of actions are listed in the courts. What of those actions? What of those Uttle people, in many cases—certainly, "littler" people—who after being given legal advice have decided to back the advice with good money? In the matter that went before the High Court, probably $20,000 went to the vindication of the view of the legal advisers that they had a triable issue—that they had the right to a trial in this action. The matter Building Units and Group Thles Act, &c,, BUI 20 & 21 December 1983 999 is not yet concluded. They have spent $20,000 and they have not had theh full day in court. They have merely resisted summary judgment. Is the State to indemnify them? It is this Parliament, by changing its words and its will, that wUl directly bring damage to those people—thousands of dollars worth of damage. Sir WiUiam Knox: Some of them will go bankrupt.

Mr INNES: Yes. If this Bill is passed, some of them wiU go to the waU and theh homes and businesses will be sold. Suppose an appeal is half way through its process, as many of them are. It will now go to a court and be judged not on the mles on which it was started but on the new mles contamed in this BUI, which the Govemment wishes to be passed tonight. Some appellants will be out of court. If some of them had been told some time ago that what is proposed in the Bill was the legal position, they would not have taken the punt. They would have made different arrangements. They would not have incurred penalty interest, I know of one case in which $40,(X)0 of penalty interest has been incurred since the commencement of the legal action to pursue the rights that then existed and which the High COurt confirmed under the existing Act. That is one case of $60,000 worth of expenses. There are not one or two of those; there are dozens of them. Each electorate of all honourable members will contain one or two of those. I do not want to stop the developers of Surfers Paradise from developing, but I want to pursue the rule of law and I want the ground mles to be clear. If they are to be changed, I am prepared to acknowledge some criticism and change them from this morning onwards, but not retrospectively. I foreshadow an amendment to the proposed section 49A that wUl take away the retrospective effect but stUI leave the thmst of the clause. In his second-reading speech, the Minister referred to the fact that a purchaser shall not be entitled to avoid a contract if he has not given the notice of avoidance in a case in which the purchaser has become the proprietor of the lot before the commencement of the Act or, in any other case, six months after the purchaser has become proprietor of the lot. As I recall the Act, "proprietor" meant the registered proprietor. So the Bill really does not fix what the Government wants fixed, because the person becomes the proprietor only on registration, which can be years or months after the settlement of the contract. The Government speaks of applying cut-off points and deadlines, but the Bill does not do that. I do not intend to move an amendnlent on that point, but the Govemment's proposal to do something about that misses the boat. I raise the point for consideration by the Minister and his advisers. However, my principal point is that the legislation is retrospective. The Parliament has acted. It deliberately set out to protect purchasers. I am prepared to support some modification, but it can only be in a way that does not cut across people's established legal rights, upon which they have relied in incurring vast expenses to order their affairs in accordance with the law made by the Parliament.

Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer) (12.9 a.m.): The member for Sherwood said that he would support an amendment of the Act from today but would not support any retrospectivity. It has been said before that legislation is made in this Qiamber, the courts interpret the legislation and, if a deficiency is found, this House has the right to amend that legislation so that the will of the House can be enacted. I suggest that it was the interpretation of a court of law on 16 November that decided that section 49 of the Act was deficient. As has been said, the High Court handed down a 3:2 decision stating that there was a deficiency in the Act. The High Court found against what the Minister considers the legislation was designed to do. It found that the Supreme Court had been wrong in its interpretation. The Minister was quite correct in announcing, after the decision was handed down, that the Government intended to amend the legislation back to a certain date. There was no doubt of the Government's position. The Government had been relying on the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Act, When the High Court handed down a decision that the Government said was contrary to its wishes, it immediately—and I stress the word "immediately"—announced what it was going to do. There was no doubt; there was no pussy-footing around. The Minister said, "This is our position, and we will continue." It was not the law that changed; it was the interpretation. Speakers 1000 20 & 21 December 1983 Building Unhs and Group Titles Act, &c,, Bill

who preceded me in the debate have asked why people did not get a legal opinion. But why would they, when High Court judges hand down a 3:2 decision? No doubt there was some deficiency in the Act, but it is being amended. The honourable member for Sherwood said that there was little in the legislation that he would criticise; but anyone who listened to his speech would have been led to believe that the Government intended to rescind section 49 of the Act. That was never the Govemment's intention. It is making one small point quite clear. It was never the Government's intention to give builders or buyers an easy way out. The Govemment is not introducing retrospective legislation; it is clarifying its original intention, I am sure that it will be clear to people outside the House that the Government has not gone back, that it is rock solid, and that its intention is to legislate, as it said it would, to put the position from now on firmly beyond doubt. Mr BURNS (Lytton) (12,13 a,m.): In the past, I wrote to the former Minister for Justice and Attorney-General on a number of occasions about problems experienced by many people who bought units off the plan, particularly on the north coast. When the original legislation was introduced, developers were inserting into contracts a clause stating that the contract would be void if problems arose with the local authority. One developer accepted deposits of $5,000 and $10,000 on a block of over 100 units— that is a substantial amount—and about 12 months later refunded the deposits, saying that the local councU had refused him permission to build the block. The developer had had the use of a large amount of money for some time, I took the issue quite some way. Finally, a week after the High Court case, one of the principals who acted for the person who went to the High Court—he is a constituent—asked his solicitor to write to me about this matter. The solicitor made a number of points. The point I make is that the people responsible for the problem are the real estate agents and the solicitors, not the builders or the buyers. The men who filled out the forms and were deficient in completing them in accordance with an Act passed by this Assembly were to blame. When a buyer bought a unit for $200,000, the real estate agent received over $7,000 and the soUcitor received more than $1,100 for completing the contract. They were paid that money, and they were supposed to complete the form properly. When hundreds of contracts are involved as a result of the incompetence or mismanagement of real estate agents or solicitors, the Government decides to pass a new law to make buyers responsible—to put the load back on to them. It is doing that when it should be slugging the solicitors and the real estate agents for their failure to comply, I shall read part of the letter that the soUcitors wrote to me. It was in these terms— "Prima facie the position should be that if the Government is prepared to countenance the device of retrospective legislation to which it has past been implacably opposed then it should only be in circumstances where it is demonstrated by the party seeking such retrospective legislation that there is no other alternative." Is there another alternative? They say that there is, in these terms— "The position is that there is in fact an alternative. Real estate agents and solicitors involved in the contracts in question were not acting in insignificant transactions and being paid insignificant fees. Real estate agents and soUcitors were in fact making many thousands of dollars from the processing of the transactions in question and our client's attitude is that if such transactions were processed negligently then the vendor's remedy should be by action for negUgence against those parties and not by retrospective legislation," Mr Borbidge interjected, Mr BURNS: This is the lawyer writing for Demings, the people who went to the High Court, Mr Borbidge: Whose case is it? Mr BURNS: I have cut the lawyer's name off because Government members always ask for letters to be tabled, I do not think that the lawyer's name should be used. Simply put, the honourable member could go to the court record and find out, because they are acting for the people who won the High Court case, Mr Borbidge: We are not asking for it to be tabled. Building Units and Group Titles Act, Ac, BiU 20 & 21 December 1983 1001

Mr BURNS: The honourable member can ask for it to be tabled, because I have cut the top off the letter, I have been around a long time, I make the point that solicitors are insured; they are supposed to have compulsory insurance. Surely that solicitor who got his thousand dollars for completing the forms did not do his job properly in accordance with section 49 and other parts of the Act. He should not get off scot-free; he should be held responsible. The Govemment is not doing anything about the solicitor or the agent; it is simply placing the penalty on the buyer, Mr Justice McPherson, in the Queensland Supreme Court, said— " for all that has been said against Section 49, its provisions are relatively simple to comply with," The lawyers and real estate agents had to comply with a section that was relatively simple. The letter continues— "Solicitors who have bothered to participate in seminars conducted both before the proclamation of commencement of the Act and after, would have been well aware of the provisions in question. Perusal of them indicates that compliance is as was said by Mr Justice McPherson relatively easy. Our client feels that it is grossly unfair that the Government should decide that rather than the statutory insurance fund to protect against negligence being the remedy available to meet the loss, that purchasers themselves should have the rules changed on them and it is they who should bear the brunt of claims. Put shortly, our client's approach is that the law is not an obscure one, has been judicially described as being relatively straight forward and yet people who have although very handsomely renumerated not managed to get the paper work right are being let off the hook as it were at the expense of the purchaser. On the sale of a home unit for $200,000.00 an agent getting standard commission plus a 1% over-rider would have earned $7,250.00 and the solicitor acting for the vendor will have earned $1,222.00 according to the relevant scale. It seems that the Government's approach is that those fees can be earned with impunity and even perhaps incompetently without having to suffer the consequence. Those fees will some­ times have been magnified many hundreds of times," It should be remembered that in most instances the same solicitor acted for the builder and the developer. If there were 1(X) units in a block, he would get 100 times $1,222 and the real estate agent would get $700,000 for his work. That happens even though they cannot complete the forms properly. The Government is now saying that the buyers should carry the load after the real estate agents have taken $700,000 and are living it up on the coast. The purchaser is having retrospective legislation pushed down his throat, to take the money from his pocket. I do not think that is the way in which a Government that is worried about the man in the street would act. The letter continues— "The legislation in question clearly demonstrates a policy to protect purchasers and even the dissenting Judge in the High Court noted that the statute reflected a firm resolve on the part of the legislature to protect the purchasers of home units with quite specific statutory remedies. There was nothing odd or obscure about the legislation and indeed it was quite apparent that the vendor was well aware of it and simply got it wrong. Our client suggests that one should not lose sight of the fact that very careful indeed, strict legislation is required and is traditionally imposed in the area of sale of interests in real property which have not yet been the subject of a registered plan and in respect of which there is not a separate deed," The Bundilla Lakes case was then discussed. My colleague the member for Wolston has already spoken about that. The letter goes on to state— "In the case of building units, very often not a spade would have been turned in the ground at the stage at which the developer goes around signing up purchasers. It must be demonstrated that there is a need for very stringent legislation—" I used to write to Mr Doumany, the former Minister for Justice and Attomey-General about the need— "to control this type of activity which put quite .simply, is trading in property which does not even then exist." 1002 20 & 21 December 1983 Building Units and Group Tities Act, &c.. Bill

The property is only a thought in the developer's mind, just fancy schemes in the paper. Mr R, J, Gibbs: They are non-tangible. Mr BURNS: As the member for Wolston says, they are non-tangible. The letter continues— "If developers choose to operate in that market, then they must be careful to ensure that they abide by the rules very carefully and properly laid down by the Govemment to control it," The rules are made by the Govemment through this Parliament. This developer did not abide by the rules, and now the Govemment is changing the law to let that developer escape without facing the consequences. This gentleman, whom I asked the Minister to see, took his case through the Supreme COurt and onto the High Court. But what happens to him now? He has spent his money on two court cases. In the High Court a decision was made in his favour. I would like to know where he stands when this legislation is passed.

Hon. N. J. HARPER (Aubum—Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) (12.22 a.m.), in reply: I thank honourable members for their contributions and comments. The spokesman for the Opposition, the member for Wolston, indicated that he believes that the remedy lies in the hands of the legislature. He quoted from a legal source, a member of the bar, in that regard. It is for that reason that the Bill is before the House. Early in his address the member said something along the lines that he and other Opposition members do not believe in retrospective legislation in any form and that they would stand by that beUef. A little later he said that the Opposition would not support retrospective legislation. However, he also referred to the retrospective legislation introduced in the Federal Parliament by his Labor Party colleagues. I cannot see any logic in those two statements. The honourable member for Wolston referred to this legislation as being regulatory legislation. I can assure him that it is not regulatory legislation but declaratory legislation that has been introduced to validate decisions of the Full Court of the Supreme Court of Queensland, It is not an attempt to undermine the judgment of the High COurt, I made the point in my second-reading speech that until the time of the High Court decision in the case of Deming No, 456 Pty Ltd and Others and Brisbane Unit Development corporation Pty Ltd, the Supreme Court of Queensland had interpreted the words "aware of the failure" in the way that the Parliament of Queensland had intended, which was to mean knowledge that a statement had not been given or that a statement did not contain the required material. The Opposition claims that the legislation is retrospective, although the honourable member for Wolston did not seem very sure of the grounds for that claim. The Government regards this legislation as declaratory in nature and not regulatory. The member for Surfers Paradise indicated that the legislation will not affect final judgments of the court, nor those matters that have been avoided prior to the introduction of the Bill. The honourable member has a firm grasp of the subject and a clear understanding of the chaos that would be caused if the Govemment had not taken the responsible action anticipated by this Bill, The honourable member for Salisbury—who, I note, is no longer sufficiently interested to remain in the House—can be assured that the Government was not caught out at all. Before a complete rewrite of section 49 could be undertaken, it was correct for the Government to await the decision of the High Court, as the Supreme Court, despite difficulties with the existinj? section 49, was interpreting the legislation in accordance with the intent of this Parliament, It is only since the High Court decision was handed down that the necessity for a complete rewrite of section 49 occurred. In the time available it was decided inappropriate to rewrite the whole of that section. I assure the House that a more detailed amendment to the Act will be brought forward and that section 49 will be rewritten. At this stage, however, I have no intention of running the risk of creating further problems by introducing a totally new section 49. The Building Units and Group Titles Act, &c,, BUI 20 & 21 December 1983 1003

Government did give some thought to h, and we wiU take time to ensure that it is done on a sound basis in accordance with the best advice that is available to the Govemment. Accordingly, the new section 49 will be brought forward in the new year. In the meantime, this legislation will ensure that the intent of the legislature, as recognised by the Supreme Court and by the Full Court of Queensland, wiU be maintained. Like the honourable member for Surfers Paradise, the honourable member for Southport clearly indicated an understanding of the value of this legislation. The honourable member for Sherwood commented on the need for legal advice when entering into contracts. I agree that his words of warning are justified. However, I point out to the honourable member that, until the High Court judgment, all advice from solicitors would have been based on the Supreme Court's view. If people and solicitors had followed this advice, they should not have had any problems of awareness of the failure. The problem of awareness of failure has arisen only since the High Court decision. Section 49 continues to exist to protect the purchaser. However, he must now prove that he was materially prejudiced as from the date of introduction of this legislation. The intention was to obtain a balance between the interests of the buyer and the seller. The honourable member for Sherwood referred to that. It is to preserve that balance—one that was reasonably achieved until the High Court decision—that these amendments are being brought forward. As with the Labor spokesmen, it is interesting to hear a Liberal spokesman condemn any suggestion of retrospectivity. I repeat that the Governnient regards this legislation as being declaratory in nature. I join issue with the honourable member for Sherwood, because I believe that the ultimate proper authority to declare the intention of this Parliament must surely be this Parliament itself. That is why the Parliament should act to ensure that the Supreme COurt's view of awareness is maintained. As a side issue, the honourable member for Sherwood made a rather interesting comment when he said that if one lives by the sword, one dies by the sword. I am not quite sure where that came in the context of the debate on this Bill, but I found it rather interesting. The honourable member foreshadowed an amendment. It may save time if I say categorically that the Government wiU, of course, reject it because it would negate the whole purpose of the Bill, All contracts entered into and all court decisions between the introduction of the legislation in 1980 and today, 21 December, would be opened up. All of the contracts that had been finalised would be opened up and people would be taking action throughout Queensland. The chaos would be completely unacceptable to every AustraUan who believes in a fair deal. The Australians whom I represent believe that the word is the token of sincerity, I am used to shaking hands on a deal and sticking to it. If the Govemment accepts an amendment that allows anyone in the last three years to open up contracts that have been finalised, it is not following normal Australian principles. Mr Prest interjected.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member for Port COrtis is not in his usual place. If he wants to make any remarks, he should return to his usual place,

Mr HARPER: I invite the attention of the honourable member for Sherwood to the definition of "proprietor" If he reads it, he may revise his comments. For the benefit of the honourable members who do not have a copy of the Act, the definition states— " 'proprietor' means the person for the time being registered or entitled to immediate registration under the Real Property Acts as the proprietor of a lot" The honourable member for Lockyer made a meaningful contribution. The honourable member for Lytton pointed out to the House where he believes the responsibility lies for the problems that have arisen with section 49. He may not be ahogether incorrect in some of his conclusions. I put to the honourable member: Why should a contract be avoided because of some minor technical breach by a real estate agent? I thank other members who have contributed to the debate on this issue. 1004 20 & 21 December 1983 Building Units and Group Titles Act, &c,. Bill

Question—That the Bill be now read a second time (Mr Harper's motion)—put; and the House divided— Ayes, 48 Ahern Harvey Muntz Alison Henderson Newton Austin Hinze Powell Bailey Innes Randell Bjelke-Petersen Jennings Row Booth Katter Simpson Borbidge Knox Stephan Cahill Lane Stoneman Chapman Lee Tenni Cooper Lester Turner ElUott Lickiss Wharton FitzGerald Lingard Whhe Gibbs, I. J. Littleproud Glasson McKechnie Goleby McPhie Tellers: Gunn Menzel Kaus Harper Miller Neal Noes, 30 CampbeU Kruger Veivers Casey Mackenroth Warburton COmben McElligott Warner, A, M, D'Arcy McLean Wilson Davis Milliner Wright De Lacy Prest Yewdale Eaton Price Fouras Scott Gibbs, R. Shaw Tellers: Goss Underwood Burns Hooper Vaughan Hamill Resolved in the affirmative.

committee The Chairman of Committees (Mr Row, Hinchinbrook) in the chair; Hon. N. J. Harper (Auburn—Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) in charge of the BiU. Clauses 1 and 2, as read, agreed to. Clause 3—New s. 49A; Interpretation of awareness in s. 49 (5)— Mr R. J, GIBBS (12,42 a.m,): I have already indicated that the Opposhion is prepared to support the amendment foreshadowed by the member for Sherwood (Mr Innes). However, I wish to comment on some remarks made by the Minister in his reply. If ever anybody deserved the description "a cowboy in silk", it is the Minister. He has shown that he has no grasp of the contents of the Bill. He said that the legislation is not retrospective. As I did at the second-reading stage, I draw the Minister's attention to this part of his second-reading speech— "Such an interpretation shall apply to the giving of a judgment or of a decision of any court, whether at first instance or on appeal " If the Minister cannot understand his own words, perhaps I should explain them to him. If the Government does not intend to make the Bill retrospective, a right of appeal cannot exist. I hope the Minister takes cognisance of that relevant point. The impassioned plea made firstly by the member for Southport and then, obviously on a very poorly prepared brief, by the member for Lockyer, who had absolutely no idea what he was talking about, concerned the need for stabUity in the industry and for protection of both parties mvolved in this matter. In his reply the Minister said that the legislation will be further improved in the new year. The Government is simply introducing ad hoc, bandaid legislation. Building Units and Group Thles Act, &c.. Bill 20 & 21 December 1983 1005

If ever there was a statement that will lead not only to further legal problems but also to further uncertainty in the industry it was the statement by the Minister, because in making the legislation retrospective to the degree that he has, he is saying that, once this Bill is passed, clause 2 is only an ad hoc piece of legislation and that it will be further amended m 1984. So once again one would have to assume that if this legislation is passed tonight, and people act on it and begin or proceed with court actions in any shape or form, it could have a drastic effect on that court action. The Minister said once again that the legislation is not retrospective. New section 49A (b) reads— "(b) the giving of judgment or of a decision by any court, after the commencement of the Building Units and Group Titles Act Amendment Act 1983—" that is after the commencement of this Act, and one presumes it will be proclaimed as soon as it receives Royal Assent— "upon the appUcation of section 49 (5) of the BuUding Units and Group Titles Act 1980 to the avoidance of a contract, agreement or other document, whenever the proceedings in which the judgment or decision is to be given were commenced " One can put no other interpretation on it than that retrospective legislation is being introduced. The Minister's statement that a problem did not occur until 16 November when the High Court handed down its decision is blatantly misleading, I wiU excuse the Minister on the ground that some months ago he was not the Minister for Justice, but the fact is—and this is known by his advisers—that the Government has known about this anomaly for almost two years. It has failed to take the sensible legislative approach to prevent problems occurring over that two-year period and can blame only itself for the predicament in which it now finds itself. As I said, I completely reject the retro.spective aspect of this legislation. The Opposition will not support the clause in any shape or form.

Mr INNES: I move the following amendment— "At page 3, line 18, before the words "the purchaser" insert the following words— 'and where the avoidance of the contract agreement or other document is by notice given by a purchaser on or after the 21st of December 1983 then'." Members will note that the date has been altered from that on the chculated amendment because we have moved on by one day, and I would not want the legislation to be retrospective in any form. There is a responsibUity on Government members to understand exactly what they are proposing to do. In his first statement to the press indicating that he intended to take action the Minfster said, "There will be retrospective legislation." His first statement was absolutely and precisely correct. The legislation is retrospective. The words "declaratory" and "validating" are bunkum. That is just a way of trying to avoid the use of the word "retrospective". So if any Government member believes it is not, he should modify his views. The Premier's first instinct—and I believe in giving to Caesar what is Caesar's—was that there should be no retrospective legislation. The Premier's instinct was absolutely correct. It is a pity that the Premier's first instinct was not maintained. A Government member—I think it was the honourable member for Lockyer—said that the legislation goes back to the date of the High Court decision. That is bunkum. This is retrospective to the beginning of the Act in 1980 and to any contract signed under the Act, It affects aU actions and all contracts entered into at that time. I can only believe that the Minister has been misled because Crown law officers do not become involved in civil litigation of this type. It is absolutely erroneous to suggest that the claims about this section and the attempt to use the provisions of this section emerged only after the High Court case. There were dozens, possibly hundreds, of actions in train before one of them was taken to the High Court, It is absolutely erroneous to say that there was a confirmed, uncontested view held by the solicitors and lawyers in this State. The very reason why 1006 20 & 21 December 1983 BuUding Units and Group Titles Act, &c.. Bill there was an appeal to the High Court was that people were urging that there was another view and that the Supreme Court was wrong. Dozens, or even hundreds, of cases testify to the fact that people did not accept that view. An enormous divergence of cases and statements by Supreme Court judges reflect the fact that there was argument. Mr Jennings interjected.

Mr INNES: Obviously the cases started when land values dropped. I recall the credit squeeze in the early '70s. When prices increase, vendors try to break contracts in every way they know. If there is a legal way out the vendor wUl be anxious to take advantage of it to get an increase in price. In the same way, the Works Department relet tenders when prices were dropping last year to take advantage of a change in climate. That is not to be condemned. It is wrong to condemn buyers who, when the market is dropping, will try to get out of contracts if there is a legal way out. That is free enterprise. If there is a legal way out, it is taken by vendors on the way up and buyers on the way down, A person in a jam looks for a legal way out. Nothing is wrong with that, and that is exactly what Parliament is interfering with. Section 49 sets out all the things that must be included, such as a statement in writing clearly identifying the lot or proposed lot to which the statement relates. The statement in writing shall state the names and addresses respectively of the original proprietor and the purchaser. The section applies only to sales off the plan, not to resales, because of the special problem when there is nothing that can be inspected or be seen. This Parliament wanted to make people as certain as possible of what they were buying and of the financial implications. The statement wUl set out or be accompanied by particulars of the lot entitlement of every lot and the aggregate lot entitlement, the proposed lot entitlement, the management agreement and any existing agreement for service or maintenance, including terms and conditions of the agreement, accompanied by the by-laws. It must state the date on which the statement is given and must be signed by the original proprietor. That is the list. Everybody knew about it. It was very simple and specific. What happened if the list was not given? These are the words in question— "If the original proprietor fails to give to a purchaser— (a) a statement in compliance in every respect with subsection (1) (2) and (3); or (b) a notice prescribed in subsection (4), the purchaser may avoid the contract " Compliance in every respect was the requirement. The Minister said that there were minor defects but the will of the Parliament covered every respect. The Minister stated that clearly. I would like him to use his right of comment in this debate to explain where and how the intention of this Parliament was anything other than the words contained in this legislation. It is not leghimate to point to any other statement. If the Minister believes that there is some other statement he should let members know.

The argument has arisen over these words: the purchaser may avoid the contract within 30 days after he first becomes aware of the failure. Argument arose about when the 30-day period was to start. It was claimed that it began the first time the contract failed to have the address, or whatever; but the view that the High Court took was that the 30-day period started the first time the person not only saw that there was no information but understood that that was a breach of the Act, or a failure. That is an everyday interpretation. The High Court said that that is a literal or layman's interpretation. The layman's interpretation was vindicated, but it is now being contested and controverted in favour of the legal interpretation that a person should be aware

In this case, the law and Parliament have stated very clear requirements. I made a point about the volume of litigation, LUerally miUions of doUars belonging to Uttle people is involved. It needs only 10 cheap units to make $lm. The little people have to seM BuUding Units and Group Titles Act, &c,. Bill 20 & 21 December 1983 1007

something in order to settle the legal contracts. Dozens incurred legal costs. Is the Government prepared to indemnify the people who proceeded on the basis of the law as U was passed by this Parliament—the people who relied on Parliament's words in the ordering of their affairs? It seems to be only fair that, if ParUament changes the lives of those people by its action, it should accept the consequences and pick up the tab. That is what the amendment provides for. If, on the one hand. Parliament defers to the developers, it must accept the consequences of its action and provide compensation to the purchasers. I would ask the Minister to reply to the matters that I have raised. Question—That the words proposed to be inserted in clause 3 (Mr Innes's amendment) be so inserted—put; and the Committee divided— Ayes, 37 CampbeU Knox Underwood Casey Kruger Vaughan Comben Lee Veivers D'Arcy Lickiss Warburton Davis Mackenroth Warner, A. M, Eaton McElligott White Fouras McLean WUson Gibbs, R. Miller Wright Goss Milliner Yewdale Hamill Prest Hartwig Price Tellers: Hooper Scott Burns Innes Shaw De Lacy

Ahern Harper Newton Alison Harvey Powell Austin Henderson Randell Bailey Hinze Simpson Bjelke-Petersen Jennings Stephan Booth Katter Stoneman Borbidge Kaus Tenni CahiU Lane Turner Chapman Lester Wharton Cooper Lingard Elliott Lhtleproud Gibbs, I, J, McKechnie Glasson McPhie ^ ^"^'•*- Goleby Menzel FitzGerald Gunn Muntz Neal Resolved in the negative. Question—That clause 3, as read, stand part of the Bill—put; and the COmmittee divided— Ayes, 41 Ahern Gunn Muntz Alison Harper Newton Austin Harvey Powell Bailey Henderson Simpson Bjelke-Petersen Hinze Stephan Booth Jennings Stoneman Borbidge Katter Tenni Cahill Kaus Tumer Chapman Lane Wharton Cooper Lester Elliott Lingard FitzGerald Littleproud Tellers: Gibbs, I. J. McKechnie Glasson McPhie Neal Goleby Menzel RandeU 1008 20 & 21 December 1983 Building Units and Group Titles Act, &c„ Bill

Noes, 37 Campbell Innes Shaw C^sey Knox Underwood Comben Kruger Vaughan D'Arcy Lee Veivers ^, Davis Lickiss Warburton De Lacy Mackenroth White Eaton McElligott Wilson Fouras McLean Wright Gibbs, R. J, Miller Yewdale Goss MUliner Hamill Prest Tellers: Hartwig Price Burns Hooper Scott Warner, A. M, Resolved in the affirmative. Bill reported, without amendment.

Third Reading Hon, N. J, HARPER (Auburn—Minister for Justice and Attorney-General), by leave: I move— "That the Bill be now read a third time,"

Mr INNES (Sherwood) (1.14 a.m.): The Liberal Party takes the unusual course of opposing the third reading, because an extremely important principle is involved. The Bill is entirely retrospective. My colleagues and I will stand against any retrospective effect. When Mr Andrew Peacock became the Federal Liberal leader and Leader of the Federal Opposition, he said that, under his guidance of Federal Liberal politics, the party would be absolutely opposed to any retrospective legislation. Some of us in this State have never wavered, I commend the Premier for his stand against retrospectivity. It is a little like pregnancy; one cannot be half way. Opposition to retrospectivity is complete opposition for all times— for purchasers, developers, tax-payers and the lot. Once one ignores the basic rule, one wanders into uncharted waters that could cause untold damage to an untold number of people. That is why the Liberal Party opposes the Bill, and that is why it continues to oppose it on the Third Reading: on the very simple and elementary principle of retrospectivity.

Question—That the BUI be now read a third time (Mr Harper's motion)—^put; and the House divided—

Ayes, 42 Ahern Gunn Newton Alison Harper Powell Austin Harvey Randell Bailey Henderson Row Bjelke-Petersen Hinze Simpson Booth Jennings Stephan Borbidge Katter Stoneman Cahill Lane Tenni Chapman Lester Turner Cooper Lingard Wharton Elliott Littleproud FitzGerald McKechnie Gibbs, I, J. McPhie Tellers: Glasson Menzel Neal Goleby Muntz Kaus ANZ Executors & Trustee Company Bill 20 & 21 December 1983 1009

Noes, 31 Campbell Kruger Underwood Casey Lee Vaughan D'Arcy Lickiss Veivers De Lacy Mackenroth Warburton Eaton McElligott White Fouras MiUer Wright Gibbs, R. J. MiUiner Yewdale Goss Prest Hartwig Price Tellers: Innes Scott Burns Knox Shaw Hamill Resolved in the affirmative.

ANZ EXECUTORS & TRUSTEE COMPANY BILL Second Reading—Resumption of Debate Debate resumed from 30 November (see p, 415) on Mr Harper's motion— "That the Bill be now read a second time,"

Mr R, J. GIBBS (Wolston) (1.22 a.m.): I do not propose to spend a great deal of time on this Bill, but I believe that it is important that the Opposition make some comment. Firstly, the Opposition supports the principle of the legislation, that is, the transfer to the ANZ Executors & Trustee Company Limited of the trustee business of the Trustees Executors and Agency Company Limited. As I said, the Opposition supports the principle and intent of the BiU, but certainly not the action of TEA (1983) Limited. Much newspaper and television publicity has been given to this issue. Many factors are involved, but I believe that the main indicators in this tragic case can be reduced to three, namely, incompetent management, wild investment practices, and, probably more importantly, outright negligence. At the core of events was the involvement of TEA in property development ventures, for which it was not equipped and in which it had little expertise. Trustee companies were never envisaged as being property developers, and it will be interesting to hear, when the Minister makes a contribution later, whether he has bothered to do his homework and check out whether any trustee company in Queensland has engaged in property development. In short, TEA borrowed short and lent long, I acknowledge that the reasons outlined, combined with poor and incompetent management and reported dealings probably beyond the law, led to disaster, I was a littie disturbed that nowhere in the Minister's speech did he refer to the fact that there had been illicit property dealings by TEA, or to the fact that people within that organisation had been described as quite unsavoury characters, I refer to a clipping from "The National Times" dated 17 to 23 June 1983 in relation to a comment made by Mr Justice Beach of the Victorian Supreme Court, The article is in these terms— "That the duty of TEA was to invest those sums in trustee investments, investments which would give the appUcants the security they required for the remainder of their lives . that can have been the only intention of the parties " The article continues— "'A layman might infer that the funds of the individuals in question had been placed on deposit with a financial institution such as a bank and that they were fully secured. That is not so and was not the situation. Indeed, far from it,'" I make the point that the $l,5m to which I am about to refer—^and this was a dastardly deed—represented moneys invested in TEA on behalf of four quadriplegics who were seriously injured in motor vehicle accidents. The money was invested in the trustee fund and people would rightly think that it was secured and guaranteed by the company. 1010 20 & 21 December 1983 ANZ Executors & Trustee Company BUI

The article continues— "In all, nearly $1,5 million of the four paraplegics' funds 'were not placed on deposit in the manner I have specified but, on the face of the material presently to hand, were expended by TEA for its own purposes One could not imagine more shameful behaviour on the part of a trustee company and its directors,' Roderick Meagher QC, for the four, described this as 'the most plain case conceivable of equitable fraud.' He further accused TEA of having 'deliberately and misleadingly concealed' from the four that TEA had borrowed the money for its own purposes. Beach asked counsel for the paraplegics what had happened to the money. They detailed to him the case of Mrs Julia Stevenson, a 55-year-old waitress, now a paraplegic living in a geriatric nursing home in Sydney. The ^ court was told that her award of $639,000 was paid by TEA into a Sydney trust account on April 7 this year, that it was amalgamated into a fund of about $6 million known as the TEA NSW Special Account and transmitted to Melbourne, The court was then told that on the basis of a cash book summary for that Melbourne account that the money appeared to have been paid out the following day for TEA'S own purposes. Beach said of this: 'I find it difficult to envisage a situation calling for stronger condemnation as the actions of the directors and other officers of TEA are presently under investigation by the appropriate authorities, I refrain from expressing any further views concerning their behaviour in the matter,'" At this stage, I will not make any further comment on that. The fact is that the whole disaster surrounding the collapse of TEA was compounded by a policy of concealment. The company was neither frank nor honest with the Victorian CJovernment or its share-holders. TEA operated on more than one level. It functioned as a regular and proper trustee company administering estates and settlements and investing the proceeds in authorised trustee securities. It also accepted deposits from the public which it placed in client investment deposits (CIDs). These funds were used by the company in its property dealings, amongst other things. One of the things that the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General has not made known to the Parliament—I only hope that he has some information available this evening to enlighten us—is whether when the company began to crash in Victoria—^and the newspaper article makes this clear—large sums of money were transferred, as my informants allege, into certain trust accounts in NSW. When the corporate office and other bodies started to catch up with them down there, I am led to believe that large sums of money were transferred to various accounts in Queensland, I am sure that honourable members would be interested to hear whether that happened and what irregular accounting practices surrounded that. These funds were used by the company in its property dealings, amongst other things. Some people in need in the community invested in CIDs and probably genuinely beUeved that they were investing in authorised trustee securities. This is a deliberate case of deception and illegal dealings. These matters are under investigation by the National Companies and Securities Commission. In his capacity as Minister for Justice and Attorney-General of Queensland, Mr Harper automatically becomes involved in the National Companies and Securities Commission, He should put to the NCSC that the bankruptcy laws in Australia should be looked at. The guide-lines laid down by the Victorian Government in the investigation of the affairs of TEA could very well reveal that there has been some milking of moneys out of that company and the Ulegal placing of that money into private bank accounts. I was interested to note, during the course of the State election campaign when the Premier flew high, wide and handsome in north Queensland, that he said that the Government should have access to the profits from dmg dealings in offenders* private accounts. I do not disagree with that proposal but it will certainly raise some very interesting legal aspects if it should ever become legislation. The Federal bankruptcy laws should be looked at very closely. It is high time that something was done about people who milk funds from companies, as may have happened ANZ Executors & Trustee Company Bill 20 & 21 December 1983 1011 on this occasion, and transfer them to private accounts. When the company hits the deck, under the current bankmptcy laws there is absolutely no way that that money can be recovered. That is totally improper and runs contrary to the workings of good laws. The Victorian Government has instigated moves whereby certain matters are to be referred to the National Companies and Securities Commission. I am astounded that the Minister made this statement in his second-reading speech— "An expert committee consisting of Mr G, L. Davies of Queen's Counsel, Mr A, R. Bottomer, a consultant with Hall, Chadwick and Company, chartered account­ ants, and Mr A. N, MurreU, the then general manager of the Bank of Queensland, was appointed," In other words, a special committee had been appointed to examine the role of tmstee companies and the legislation that governs them in this State. I accept the expertise of the gentlemen named. The Minister for Justice and Attorney-General went on to say— "The report of that committee has now been received by me, and it is now under detailed examination with a view to introducing legislation into this House next year to ensure that the public faith placed in statutory trustee companies is not again misplaced." The rot first set in for this trustee company in March of this year. That is when the rumblings were first heard. They went through Victoria, New South Wales and Queens­ land. In Victoria and New South Wales, legislation was introduced within five months to patch up some of the loopholes. Yet here in Queensland, nine months later, the report of a committee set up to investigate trustee companies and relevant legislation is only now available. In the interests of sound law, that report should be tabled in this House so that members of the Opposition could be made aware of Us contents and would therefore be able to comment on it. More importantly, legislation of this nature should have been introduced prior to the Christmas recess, so that investors in securities companies and trustee companies in Queensland were absolutely certain that their investments were safe and that no problems would arise in connection with them over the Christmas/New Year period. The terms of reference that the Victorian Government referred to the National Companies and Securities Commission are— The operations of the TEA Group in its capacity as a trustee vis-a-vis those non-trustee functicms performed by it; The corporate structure of and the commercial practices followed by the TEA Group; The operation of the common funds and any deposit scheme of the TEA Group; The extent, if any, to which the participation by all or any of the corporations in the TEA Group in non-trustee commercial activities, including real property development schemes or enterprises, joint ventures with other corporations or persons, the purchase and sale of real estate agencies and the active solicitation of funds, contributed to (its parious) position; The extent to which Trustees Executors and Agency Company Limited made known or should have made known to the Attomey-General (of that State) or to any other appropriate State or Commonwealth authority or the Stock Exchange of Melbourne Limited or any other stock exchange the true nature of the financial position of the TEA Group from time to time; The nature, extent and accuracy of the reports or other advice or information, given or conveyed by the Chairman, the Directors, or officers of the Trustees Executors and Agency COmpany Limhed or of any other corporaticm in the TEA Group as to its affairs and whether there was any non-disclosure of relevant facts. The Attomey-General went on to say that he would direct the National Companies and Securities Commission to report whether it would recommend any changes in the legislation rdating to trustee companies, including provisions relating to the functions and powers of trustee companies and provisions relatmg to the regulation of such companies. 1012 20 & 21 December 1983 ANZ Executors & Trustee COmpany BiU

I am aware that discussions have taken place between the Attorneys-General of New South Wales, South Australia, the Northern Territory, Victoria and Queensland. I do not know whether the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General was involved in those discussions. He is acknowledging that he was. I would hope that in this situation there will be a co-operative effort. I must say that, although from time to time I found Mr Doumany obUging to a degree, I certainly was not an admirer of the rather obstructionist role that he played among the Attorneys-General. He played that role mainly on the basis that the other Attorneys- General happened to be Labor Party Attorneys-General and not persons of a conservative nature. I would hope that the present Minister for Justice and Attomey-General, in his endeavours to estabUsh his credentials not only with his colleagues but also with the legal profession, will adopt a somewhat different approach to the National Companies and Securities Commission, I have made the point that the Government of Queensland should have brought this legislation forward prior to the Christmas recess. The delay cannot be excused on the basis that the Government has not received the report. Perhaps it could be claimed that the Government should have introduced legislation to ensure that some of the practices that took place in Victoria did not occur in Queensland. I have read the Victorian legislation. I find it very palatable that a State Government in Australia—the Victorian Government—took forthright steps based on sound business principle, on sound legislation and, more importantly, on the soundness of protecting people's interests in those companies. The steps taken by the Victorian Government certainly were not radical steps. I allude briefly to some of the provisions in the Victorian legislation. Firstly, it provides that the Attorney-General may obtain accounts of property and assets of any estate in the possession or under the control of a trustee company. Such a provision does not exist in Queensland. It now exists in Victoria, and I believe that it exists in New South Wales, Surely it makes sense. Regardless of our politics, it is an issue that is a sense issue, not a political issue. The accounts of companies that are trustees or executors of miUions of dollars of small and large investors' money should be open to scrutiny and checked by the Attorney-General of the State of Queensland. The Victorian legislation contains a new provision relating to the borrowing of trustee companies. It states that, in particular, trustee companies shall not accept deposits or any loan to the company from any estate under its administration or management, or accept a deposit of money with or a loan of money to the trustee company in its own behalf from any other person. The trustee company, however, may borrow from certain financial institutions provided that, as on and after 1 March 1984, the total borrowings by the trustee company from financial institutions and the liabUity of the trustee company under any bill of exchange or promissory note and the amount of the proposed loan together do not exceed the total amount of the net tangible assets of the company. I am not in any way trying to frighten investors in Queensland. I wonder whether, since the very unpalatable experience with TEA, any move has been initiated by the Queensland Government to examine the affairs of trustee companies in this State to make sure that their assets are not only secured but also cover any liabUities that they might be facing. The Victorian legislation gives power to the Attorney-General to request information in writing about the operations of the trustee company, and also empowers the Attomey- General to cause to be carried out a review of the operations of a trustee company or an aduit of the books and accounts of the trustee company or both a review and an audit. It also authorises a tmstee company to charge and receive out of any income received by a common fund a fee calculated at a rate not exceeding 1 per cent. I have been told that that is a sensible legislative program because there are administrative costs that from time to time do not move with the rate of inflation. Provision is made for a 1 per cent set fee in that legislation. The legislation specifically authorises the establishment of a cash common fund which provides for payment of interest determined from day to day. Investments from that type of common fund are restricted to specific classes of investment referred to in that clause. ANZ Executors & Tmstee Company Bill 20 & 21 December 1983 1013

The legislation requires the managing director or manager, chief financial officer and two other directors of each tmstee company to make a quarterly statutory declaration. Copies of each declaration must be forwarded to the Attomey-General within seven days after the making of the declaration, must be given to any person upon request, and within seven days after the making of the declaration must also be put up in a conspicuous place in the registered office of the trustee company and in every branch office or place where the business of the trustee company is carried on. I would interpret that as meaning that a sign would need to be posted within the local stock exchange. That would be a progressive and healthy step for investors. I hope that the Minister can tell me in his reply whether steps have been taken by the Queensland Government, apart from the establishment of a committee, to make sure that financial investment in tmstee companies in Queensland is fully secured. The Minister could also tell me whether he intends to introduce legislation at any time to further protect the investors' funds in this State. Hon. N. J, HARPER (Aubum—Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) (1.44 a.m.), in reply: I thank the honourable member for his contribution. He made a number of points and I will answer those points of major importance. The honourable member was correct when he said that I foreshadowed legislation. I can assure the House that it will not be patchwork legislation, as he has suggested. He acknowledged the fact that the Victorian legislation is of a patchwork nature. I assure honourable members that the proposed Queensland legislation will be far more extensive than the patchwork Victorian legislation. It is considered that the legislation will be the model for the rest of Australia. The Davis committee met the Victorian committee and the NCSC in Melboume and was quite aware of the Victorian proposals. The honourable member for Wolston indicated that New South Wales has introduced legislation. That is not quite so. Victoria has introduced legislation in the short term, largely on the basis of agreement with the industry hself. That may be the best approach for vested interests. However, the Queensland inquiry, which availed itself of discussion with people in Victoria, was independent of the Govern­ ment and of the tmstee company industry. Any proposed changes to the legislation must be fuUy considered because of the ramifications on such a labour-intensive industry. The honourable member asked about property development by tmstee companies in Queensland. Union Fidelity owns a tourist resort at Noosa, which I understand was paid for in cash. That is not property development but rather an investment of company funds. For the information of honourable members, I indicate that Union Fidelity does not accept cash borrowings from the public for investment. The honourable member asked about the TEA investigation. The NCSC is investigating the affairs of TEA. Last Friday, when I attended my second meeting of the NCSC, a decision was taken conceming the investigation. It had been hoped that it would be completed by now. However, it has been decided that it will be AprU before it is completed. (Queens­ land was consulted about the terms of reference and has played a meaningful role in the discussions and the setting up of the inquiry. Further action, of course, will depend on the results of the inquiry. We expect that it wUl report on all possible actions, including criminal actions. The honourable member for Wolston referred to the possible transfer of cash. All such transfers are the subject of the NCSC inquiry, FmaUy, the honourable member referred to bankmptcy and insolvency laws. They have recently been referred to the Commonwealth Law Reform Commission. Queensland is currently considering that reference. Motion (Mr Harper) agreed to.

committee Qauses 1 to 9, and preamble, as read, agreed to. Bin reported, without amendment.

Third Reading BiU, on motion of Mr Harper, by leave, read a third time. 60859—35 1014 20 & 21 December 1983 RetaU Shop Leases BiU

RETAIL SHOP LEASES BILL Hon, M, J. AHERN (Landsborough—^Mmister for Industry, Small Business and Technology), by leave, without notice: I move— "That leave be given to bring in a BiU to regulate the making of retaU shop leases and to provide for resolution of disputes under such leases and for related purposes." Motion agreed to. First Reading Bill presented and, on motion of Mr Ahern, read a first time.

Second Reading Hon. M, J. AHERN (Landsborough—^Minister for Industry, Small Business and Technology) (1.52 a.m.): I move— "That the Bill be now read a second time." I am sure that honourable members will be well aware of my satisfaction in standing before this House as Minister for Small Business in Queensland and to have the opportunity, in that role, to introduce the Retail Shop Leases Bill, which, in effect, is my first parliamentary initiative in my new Ministry. Many people have laboured for very long hours and over several years to bring this initiative to its present stage. I am therefore honoured as Minister responsible for small business to be delivering this address to implement National Party policy as detailed before the last election and supported through the ballot-box by so many retail small-businessmen throughout the length and breadth of Queensland. The legislation is completely consistent with National Party policy and fulfils the promises made in this regard before the last election. I envisage that this wUl be the first of many actions I will initiate to stimulate small business in this State during my term as Minister, I look forward to a happy, consultative Ministry, talking with those who are involved and endeavouring to implement their recommendations in the interest of small bimness in Queensland. SmaU business is a very large employer of people and no Government can hope to sponsor recovery without a healthy small business sector. SmaU-businessmen pay the most taxes in the community and they also employ the most people. I very much hope, during the next few years, that there wiU be a fuU economic recovery in the community generally and, if this happens, it will be very much because smaU-businessmen will have made it happen. This legislation, I hope, gives my Ministry the credibUity it needs to move forward in discussions with small-businessmen in the future and wUl indicate to them that the National Party is very serious about their interests and very determined that it will represent them as it said it would. This is pioneering legislation in Australia. No other State has initiated legislation of this nature although a number of reports have recommended it in other States. However, I beUeve they will now follow the lead of the National Party SmaU Business Mmistry in Queensland, and I throw that in the face of our detractors who have been critical as to why this legislation has not been introduced sooner. I ask them: Where have the Labor States acted in this very difficult area? WeU, we have acted, and this is the proof. Honourable members will recall the tabling of the report of the COmmittee of Inquiry into Shopping COmplex Leasing Practices in November 1981. The Cooper committee, as it became commonly known, was established to conduct a comprehensive investigation into a growing number of complaints from small tenants, particularly in major shopping .complexes, concerning the general deterioration of the terms and conditions of their leases. The committee's findings supported the earlier reports of the Small Business DevdoiHnent Corporation that the general conditions of leases in shopping complexes were overwhelmingly in favour of the landlord. Particular reference was made in the report to percentage rents, the provision of monthly turnover figures to centre managements, the quantum, composition RetaU Shop Leases BUI 20 & 21 December 1983 1015 and method of assessing centre operating expenses payable by the tenants, the trend towards shorter lease terms, the appointment of goodwill on the assignment of leases, and unnecessary delays in consenting to requests for the assignment of leases. The committee recommended that the Government should give every practicable encouragement and support to an industry-led, managed and regulated solution to the problems of small tenants in shopping complexes, and further that in the event of no resolution being reached by the industry towards self-regulation by 30 June 1982, the Govemment should take i>ositive action to resolve the matters then at issue by legislative means. The Government adopted the Cooper report recommendations and took immediate steps to initiate industry self-regulation. Numerous and lengthy discussions were convened with landlord and tenant groups and every effort possible was taken to bring the groups to a consensus on the issue of fairer lease conditions. The Building Owners & Managers Association (BOMA) handed its formal response to the Government in April 1982. Although BOMA made concessions on a number of the points raised in the COoper report, the proposed reforms feU far short of those considered essential for the satisfactory resolution of the problems confronted by the industry. Subsequent detaUed negotiations with BOMA again proved fruitless, and the Govemment was left with little option but to consider the introduction of legislation to re-establish the balance between landlord and tenant. The matter was referred to a joint parliamentary committee comprising the committees of the Minister for COmmerce and Wustry and the Minister for Justice and Attomey-General to review in practical terms the difficulties confronted in the industry and to determine whether legislative enactment could overcome these difficulties. The joint committee discussed the issues at length over a period of some months and released its proposals in a discussion paper distributed for public comment in January 1983. The committee concluded that special legislation should be prepared, and that as the onerous practices previously confined to shopping complexes had now spread throughout the whole retail sector, the legislation should apply to aU retail shop leases, whether the shop was located in a shoppmg complex or not. As honourable members will therefore appreciate, the (Jovemment has considered this issue at considerable length and has given the industry every possible chance to sort out its own affairs. This Bill proposes to regulate certain practices adopted by landlords that have placed an unfair burden on the small retaU tenant. The Bill further proposes to estabUsh a retaU shop lease mediation panel and a retail shop lease tribunal for the low-cost resolution of disputes between landlords and tenants in this industry. The legislation is designed to regulate a number of specific practices that have been identified by the various commhtees and inquiries to be the most onerous on the smaU tenant. It is intended that the industry grasp the nettle and resolve the remaining contritions areas of hs own accord without the necessity for further legislative interference. This Bill proposes to prohibit— Percentage rent unless the tenant has requested it; The coUection of any tumover figures by the landlord unless the tenant has requested a percentage rent; and The payment of key money or the apportionment of goodwiU on assignment to the landlord. It also proposes to ensure that— If a percentage rent is paid by the tenant, only basic tumover figures need be provided to the landlord; The method of any rental review is clearly identified in the lease and arbhration shall be avaUable in cases where rental is to be adjusted on the basis of a market rent; 1016 20 & 21 £>ecember 1983 Adjournment

A tenant's request for the assignment of a lease shall be answered whhin 42 days and only reasonable costs of investigating the proposed assignee can be recovered from the tenant; Only certain types of centre operating expenses may be chargeable to the tenants and reasonable practices shall apply to the issuing of estimates and audited statements of such expenses; A tenant in his first lease with a landlord is entitled to an initial term of at least five years; A tenant has the right to select a solicitor of his choice; and The landlord will pay reasonable compensation to a tenant if his actions or failure to act in certain cases, lead to a loss of profits to that tenant. As I mentioned earlier, the BiU proposes to establish a retaU shop lease mediation panel and a retail shop lease tribunal. The mediators on the mediation panel wUl attempt to assist parties to a dispute to resolve theh difficulties, whereas the tribunal will have powers to issue an order on a dispute and to enforce that order. The tribunal shall consist of three members, one being a District Court judge, one being a representative of the landlords and one being a representative of the tenants. In all cases, the dispute will be referred to mediation before the matter can be brought before the tribunal for resolution. Upon Royal Assent being given, the provisions of the Act shall be deemed to have commenced today, the date on which the Bill was introduced into the Legislative Assembly. The provisions of this Bill will therefore apply to every retail shop lease entered into or renewed from this day forward. It should be emphasised that the prohibited and implied conditions specified in the Bill and the powers of the tribunal to hear and issue orders in relation to disputes only apply to those retail shop leases entered into or renewed from today. The Bill provides mediators with the jurisdiction to hear disputes relating to existing leases in addition to new leases. In drafting this legislation, the Govemment has given deep and sympathetic consideration to the difficulties experienced by small tenants under existing leases. However, to interfere with existing contracts and to alter the basis upon which these contracts were struck would have disastrous consequences. The Bill will establish the ground rules upon which leases wUl be drafted and wiU further provide the hard-working small retail tenant and, indeed, the landlord with recourse to a forum for the low-cost resolution of disputes. I commend the Bill to the House. Debate, on motion of Mr Fouras, adjourned.

ADJOURNMENT Hon, C, A, WHARTON (Burnett—Leader of the House): I move— "That the House do now adjourn."

TownsvUle Casino Mr McELLIGOTT (TownsvUle) (2.2 a.m.): On 23 February 1982, which is almost two years ago. Cabinet granted the licence for the north Queensland casino to Drayton Investments in Townsville. The original concept was a magnificent proposal estimated to cost about $60m. In addition to the casino rooms, it included a convention centre, marina and residential home units. The announcement caused a great deal of debate locally. It was generally agreed that it would serve as a catalyst for a major thrust by the tourist industry into the city of Townsville, Indeed, the Townsville City Council and the TownsvUle Harbour Board were required to make some contributions. They were very co-operative in accommodating the proposal—^in other words, they endorsed it. Some months ago, it became very obvious that the original proposal would not proceed. Numerous rumours have circulated throughout the Townsville community about various scaled-down proposals. Alternative sites have been talked about, and the mmours have Adjournment 20 & 21 December 1983 1017

destroyed business confidence in the Townsville city area. In 1982, the TownsviUe City COuncU approved 211 town-planning appUcations. The number to date this year is 142. It now seems certain that the Drayton proposal wUl not proceed. Honourable members are probably aware of the rivalry that exists between Townsville and Cairns. Townsville does not see itself as another C!!aims. The State Govemment, through the Queensland Tourist and Travel Corporation, has been instmmental in attracting QANTAS to the new Cairns airport. The Townsville business community is very concemed about the effect that that decision will have on the tourist industry in Townsville. Townsville has many attractions to the north, to the west and to the south. If the Drayton proposal is not to proceed, I recommend to the Government that tenders be re-caUed for a casino licence for Townsville, If the Govemment is of the opinion that a casino is not viable in north Queensland—I suspect that that may be the case—I urge it to use its best endeavours to promote the establishment and development of an intemational hotel and convention centre in TownsvUle, That would provide the sort of benefits that the original casino proposal would have brought with it. The Cairns tourist promotional activity will have a substantial advantage over Towns­ vUle in the local ownership plan that is to pay for the development of the airport. The Caims Port Authority can ihnpose a facUity fee of the order of $2 on passengers using the airport. Because Townsville airport is a defence establishment, local ownership is not really feasible. The Townsville community is concerned that Cairns has gained an advantage over TownsviUe, but credit must go to the people of Claims. Through the Tourist promotional activity, they are working very hard to promote the city. The main thmst of Townsville's tourist development was to come from the casino. If that is not now to proceed, the Govemment must make an immediate announcement that an intemational hotel will be established.

Traffic Congestion, Toowong Mr BAILEY (Toowong) (2.8 a.m.): Members who live in the city of Brisbane are aware of the increasing problems caused by its massive population growth. One of these problems is the difficulty of getting around the city by car and the lack of parking facilities. In my electorate of Toowong, traffic has become chaotic. One can only wonder whether the highly paid and weU qualified traffic engineers employed by the Brisbane City Council to rectify traffic problems are even aware of the particular problems in Toowong, Permanent congestion can be found around the Toowong shopping centre, and it has been exacerbated by the introduction of a median strip in Jephson Street. That median strip was very arrogantly introduced by the Brisbane City Council without any consultation with the tradespeople or the shoppers. As a result, business has been affected, some employers have put off a number of theh staff and many people have found it easier to shop at venues other than Toowong. There was no need to construct the median strip in the first place. Now that it is installed, it is almost impossible, because of the arrogant attitude of the Brisbane City COuncil, to have h taken out, A Govemment Member: That is typical. Mr BAILEY: Unfortunately, it is typical. The Govemmwit hopes to commence in the very near future a major project over the Toowong Railway Station. It will alleviate some of Toowong's parking problems, but not all of them. I hope that over the next few months or years the Brisbane City COuncil wiU apply itself to solving the problem. I hope that it devises a plan to allow people who live in the electorate and those who commute from the western suburbs farther out to come to the Toowong area easily. In the St Lucia village shopping centre on Hawken Drive, two small children were killed within the past six years because the speed limit through the shopping centre is much too high. The Brisbane City COuncil was approached on numerous occasions to rectify the situation, but in every instance a negative response was received. Mr Burns: You should go to the police and get them to make a recommendation. 1018 20 & 21 December 1983 Adjournment

Mr BAILEY: The police, too, have made a recommendation, but the speed limit stiU has not been reduced. Mr Bums: They are the ones who ought to keep it up. -' Mr BAILEY: Not in this case. A similar situation arises in Taringa, where virtually a freeway has been created through the shopping centre. Traffic roars through h and parking is very difficult. Once again, traders are affected and shopping is dropping off. The problem must be resolved in a sensible fashion. One would assume that the traffic engineers would have a look at the whole suburban area of Toowong and the effect of the increasing number of freeways in the area, and then work out ways of rationalising traffic through those centres so that the shop-keepers can continue to trade and attract customers. Problems are caused by both the massive traffic flow and the lack of parking. The intersection of Swann Road, Galley Road and IndooroopUly Road is a fiveways. It is probably one of the most confusing fiveways in the city. Numerous accidents occur there, mainly because people cannot understand the signposting. This problem, too, is one for the Brisbane City COuncil. The local alderman has tried to have it solved, but no action has been taken. Added to those problems is the difficulty created by the lack of parking near the three hotels in the area, particularly the . Further, the University of Queensland is expanding and traffic to and from the univershy is coming in a greater volume through the Toowong area, A problem is created, of course, by the increasing number of students who drive to and from the university, and, in addition, the area is becoming virtually a rabbit-warren of what seem to be accidental decisions. The area is a traffic and parking shambles. I can only wonder why the council has allowed this situation to develop over the years. Basically it has arisen as the result of neglect on the part of a councU that places greater emphasis on buUding monuments to itself, such as the new Student Games complex at Boondall. I suggest that the council engineers do something constructive. The best thing they can do is conduct an in-depth survey of the traffic situation in Toowong, so that the people of Toowong at least have something to look forward to in the future. Boiler Mishap at Swanbank Power Station Mr HAMILL (Ipswich) (2.14 a.m.): I voice my concem over an occupational safety problem that exists at the Swanbank Power Station. I refer to a report in "Tlie Queensland Times" of 14 December wherein it was stated that an accident had occurred at the Swanbank Power Station on the previous day. That report was a very restrained report in that it outUned in the barest detail an official statement that had been issued by the QEGB. The acting manager of the QEGB, Mr Peter Arlidge, stated that two men had been injured in the accident that occurred on 13 December, and added— "It was caused from a sudden loss of pressure after a water tube leak." He went on to deny that a boiler at the power station had exploded, and said— "It was not a boiler explosion. Tube failures are not an uncommon occurrence," The next day, following the report in "The Queensland Times", that newspaper was contacted by a number of employees from the Swanbank Power Station who pointed out their concem that the report given by the QEGB was inaccurate in fact and in detail. The Swanbank Power Station employees stated that the north-east comer of a boiler had blown out with the result that a 20-metre split occurred in the side of the boiler. A 20-metre split is not something that could go undetected very easily. Nevertheless, the QEGB did not resile from its earlier statement and refused to confirm the report in "The Queensland Times" Journalists employed by that newspaper were told that they were unduly dramatising the incident and that their reports were quite irresponsible. In response to a question that I asked in this House yesterday, the Minister for Mines and Energy informed me that boiler No. 2 exploded at the Swanbank Power Station. He also stated that the explosion occurred in the north-east comer of that boUer. Further, the Minister confirmed the reports given by the Swanbank Power Station workers to the local Adjoumment 20 & 21 December 1983 1019

newspaper about the nature of the damage to the boiler and the nature of personal injuries sustamed by employees at the Swanbank Power Station, I ask: What purpose would the QEGB have in mind in seekhig to cover up this incident? It stands to reason why the QEGB would lUce to conceal the boiler blow-out! Furthermore, why would the (JEGB seek to accuse the local newspaper of dramatising the incident when "The Queensland Times" had merely carried a factual report of the damage that had occurred? The Minister also stated in his answer that boiler blow-outs were a relatively frequent occurrence between November 1966 and August 1969, the most serious blow-out being one that occurred in boiler No. 5 on 1 June 1969 when a waU was blown out. He also stated that there was no record

Use of Services of the Queensland Water Resources Commission by Federal Member for Herbert Mr STONEMAN (Burdekin) (2.19 a.m.): I rise to speak on a matter of great concern to many people in north Queensland and to me. It arises from the Opposition's recent righteousness at some levels and its blatant discourtesy at other levels. I refer particularly to statements reported in "The TownsvUle Daily Bulletin", and more particularly to statements made by the Federal member for Herbert (Ted Lindsay). He seems to be the spokesman for Senator Walsh at the Federal level on all matters pertaining to the Burdekin Dam. It is of great interest that Mr Lindsay uses the services of the Queensland Water Resources Commission of this State whenever he requires detailed information about what is happening. He turns that information round and says that it is his own work and the work of the Federal Govemment. He makes poUtical capital out of the information. Queensland is reaUy domg aU the work. The Commonwealth has nothing to do with the planning or constmction of the dam. That work is being done by the Queensland Water Resources Commission, yet the Minister and the commission have to read in "The TownsviUe Daily Bulletin" what the Federal Govemment is up to. That is a shocking state of affairs! It makes one wonder what Mr Hawke is reaUy about when he speaks of bringing Australia together. All the investigation, planning and work is done by (Queensland, but all the kudos is bemg claimed by Mr Lindsay, who suddenly is an expert on these matters. The member for TownsviUe West issued a press release over the week-end about what he called the criminal land deals in the Burdekin area. It is interesting that, having made that statement, he has bolted off to Russia—for a refresher course, I suppose. It wUl be interesting to hear what the comrade has to say when he retums. The member for TownsviUe West has always been grossly inaccurate in his statements on land dealings in the Burdekin area. He is long on rhetoric but short on detail. It is worth noting the State Govemment's expenditure on the dam. It has put its money where its mouth is. However, Queensland has yet to see the Federal Govemment's cheque. I am not doubting that it wiU be sent sooner or later, but it has been announced about 14 times, TTie Federal Government always says that the cheque is coming twnorrow, but it has still not arrived. On the initial works, the expenditure to 30 November has amounted to $2,652,000 out of the total of $3,816,000 aUocated in 1983-84, $3,764,000 out of a total of $13m aUocated by the Commonwealth has been sp«it by the State, Access roads are 1020 20 & 21 December 1983 Adjournment being constmcted by the State Government, Twelve kilometres of the Mingela to Ravenswood section has been upgraded to bkumen standard. In all, 80 km from Ravenswood to the dam site will be considerably upgraded. The construction village is well advanced. The Federal Govemment and its mouthpiece, Mr Lindsay, do not talk about the five houses, the airstrip or the site complex under constmction. All Queensland hears is the constant armouncement, "Wacko for the Hawke Government! It has at long last agreed to the dam." Again, the contract for the dam was published in "The Townsville Daily Bulletin", not by courtesy of Senator Walsh passmg on Mr R. J. Gibbs: Isn't that shocking!

Mr STONEMAN: Yes, h is shocking, I am delighted that the member for Wolston agrees that it is a shocking state of affairs. In the lower irrigation area, expenditure to 30 November by the State has been $3.97m. Again, the State has carried the burden totaUy. I conclude by saying that expenditure on the whole range of faciUties in the area has been totaUy carried to date by the State Govemment. I ask: When wUl the Federal Govemment make announcements through the proper channels about the expenditure to be incurred and who is doing the work? When will it pay the State Govemment the courtesy that is due?

Fish-stocking Program Mr BURNS (Lytton) (2,24 a.m.): In the last six years the New South Wales Division of Fisheries has released just under 2 million golden perch and 650 (X)0 silver perch into 24 dams, lakes and weirs in New South Wales in a pubUc stocking program, which has greatly improved angling in many New South Wales impoundments and has reintroduced native species into waters from which they had become extinct or in which their numbers had greatly diminished. In Queensland difficulties have occurred as a result of efforts to introduce attractive species from overseas. One real altemative is to mount a substantial effort to make better use of popular native fish. I believe it is essential that the Minister responsible for fisheries take steps to fully investigate and give every assistance to local authorities wishing to improve fresh-water angling conditions. If angling in suitable areas of south-east Queensland can be developed to attractive levels by stocking and other measures, the benefit to the State will be substantial. Opportunities are now greater, as several species of fish are available as fry and knowledge of their suitabiUty has been increased. Enormous value could accrue to tourism in south-east Queensland if a fresh-water fishery of attractive proportions could be developed within reach of the main tourist centres. Small numbers of fry from Government hatcheries have already been released in several impoundments and promises have been made in respect of others, but progress is very slow and many years will elapse before results can be expected. By the co-ordinated use of the resources of interested organisations, the whole process could be greatly accelerated and the cost to the tax-payer reduced. With encouragement and assistance from the Queensland Fish Management Authority, local groups could establish simple local hatcheries to produce and release large numbers of fry at very little cost to the tax-payer. The estabUshment of a small hatchery at Lake Macdonald by the Noosa Shire Council some three years ago has been a great success. Greatly improved fishing in the lake and associated streams has resulted. Four species have been successfully propagated. Over 100 000 fry have been released. Operation of the hatchery, largely by volunteer labour, has reduced the cost of fry to an insignificant level. The Lake Macdonald project has been funded by the Noosa Shire Council and operated by volunteers of the Lake Macdonald Fish Advisory Committee in co-operation with councU staff. The system has worked well. As a resuU, it has started to attract attention from other organisations interested in stocking impoundments in their own areas. Among these are service clubs, angling clubs and shire councils, some of which have indicated a desire to stock several in a particular region. Such organisations are evidently prepared to provide both funds and labour to support these projects, but all lack the required technical Adjoumment 20 i& 21 December 1983 1021 expertise. Co-ordination and fostering of such groups by the Queensland Fish Management Authority could lead to extensive stocking of many lakes at very Uttle cost to the tax­ payer. At the present time the Noosa Shire Council is establishing a training course in hatchery management for selected staff members. Perhaps this can be extended, with the help of the Queensland Fish Management Authority, and the hatchery itself used as a model to demonstrate the principles and problems involved. The Mary River, including the Borumba and Six-mile Dams, already has some spotted barramundi, Murray cod and fresh-water jew. At times this system provides sport for a large number of anglers, but it cannot be said to offer enough to support a tourist industry. Some years ago Borumba Dam was stocked with a small number of spotted barramundi and golden perch. At least one species has spawned regularly and anglers have taken numbers of good fish. It would appear that the golden perch has not spawned in this river system, but a number of the original specimens were taken downstream and upstream from the dam over a period of several years. These were all good fish, which had grown as large as almost 5 kg. The Lake Borumba facility was not designed to supply the very large numbers of fry which would be required to stock the lakes of south-east Queensland, but it could be used to assist the various hatchery groups with research into better methods of inducing species of fish to spawn and improving the efficiency of hatching and rearing techniques. It could supply golden or silver perch eggs. The transport of eggs presents few problems in comparison with the carriage of large numbers of fry. The Brisbane River is reputed to have been the home of Murray cod in the recent past, but that was changed by the construction of the on the Stanley River, The heavy demand for water to supply the needs of Brisbane means that a substantial flow from the dam to Mt Crosby is now normal, even in dry times. These conditions might now favour such species as Murray cod, spotted barramundi and silver perch. Only some form of experimental stocking followed by a monitoring program could settle the issue one way or the other. In many instances the habitat created by impounded waters is unsuited to the breeding requirements of the fish previously occupying the inundated stream. Therefore, the main­ tenance of a viable fishery usually requires stocking. For example, for several years after its constmction, many very fine golden perch were caught by anglers in LesUe Dam.

I could talk of many lakes, dams and streams that could benefit from a native fish restocking program but I think I have made my point. With mounting evidence of the very high value of angling in the economy and the high price this places on every kilogram of fish, the economics of stocking with fish that may not breed in lakes, dams and streams can no longer be questioned. The Govemment's decision to go ahead with Nile perch research is proof of that fact. It is clear from Govemment announcements that the only altemative being seriously considered to native species is the Nile perch, and this fish may never be released, may not adapt to south-east Queensland and may not be available for many years. In the immediate future, extensive use could be made of several native fish, which are already very popular. If and when the Nile perch becomes available for release, any established groups involved in stocking would be of assistance with such a program.

All I ask is that serious consideration be given to the tremendous financial advantage our State's tourist industry and many Queensland cities and towns will derive from a properly organised fish stocking program for dams, weirs, lakes and streams. A Uttle money constmctively spent will retum many benefits. The excellent work at Noosa by Gerald COok and the council scratches the surface of what could be a major boost to the State's fishing. I thank the House for the opportunity to make the 20-minute speech that I should have been able to make during the debate on the Water Resources and Maritime Services Estimates. 1022 20 & 21 December 1983 Adjournment

ALP Attempts to Divide Australia Mr McPHIE (Toowoomba North) (2.29 a.m.): From listenmg to the debate today and yesterday, I have become concerned at the divisiveness both in the House and in the community as a whole. I am well aware that our philosophies differ and that, in debates. Opposition speakers will always oppose anything brought forward by the Govemment. But what I am talking about transcends that ordinary difference of political opinion. I will try to give members an example of what I am speaking about. Earlier today, the Minister for Welfare Services presented his Estimates. He produced what I considered to be a balanced and well-reasoned program for his department that showed concern for all sections of the community and made a sensible allocation of available funds. He also i>roduced a unique concept for next year—the Year of the Family. His idea is to bring the people of Australia together, stressing that the family is the main unit in this country. Our political opponents opposite denigrated the idea and opposed the department's allocation. I can understand their attacking a well-reasoned allocation of funds for the year's program, but I cannot understand their attempting to destroy it. That type of approach is not solely the province of the ALP in Opposition, as they are in this Chamber; it can be found when they are in Govemment, as th^ are in the Federal sphere. In that sphere, their present programs are disrupting and tearing Australia apart. One of the smallest of the programs is also one of the most significant. I refer to the attack on the Australian flag. The ALP wants to do away with the flag that has served this country so well and been honoured by so many citizens. In one of today's newspapers, Mrs Elaine Darling tried to justify the use of the term "comrade" by saying that it had been used long before the communists came to power. I concede that, just as a I concede that the term "comrade" has been used by members of the RSL. But since the Russian revolution, and particularly in more recent times, the word "comrade" has had a different connotation. It is that connotation to which Govem­ ment members object. If the ALP tries to introduce the word into common usage, it will tear this country apart. The divisiveness that one sees in the community today can be traced back to the Whitlam era. Mr R. J. Gibbs: Garbage! Poor old Gough is away overseas. Leave him alone. Mr McPHIE: Yes, poor old Gough is overseas. He is the man who wUl go down in history as surely the worst Prime Minister this country ever had. The Sex Discrimination Bill, which had to be amended 127 times before it passed the second reading in the Senate, is another attempt to divide this country by specifying exactly what a citizen can do every waking hour of the day. I want to illustrate the correct way to hold this country together. The example comes from a Benedictine abbey near New Norcia in Western AustraUa, where one of the monks is developing a Mexican-type chapel. Mr R. J. Gibbs: Oh! Mr McPHIE: The example will be obvious to anyone who cares to Usten. Mr R. J. Gibbs: Keep gomg; I am enthralled. Mr McPHIE: Good. The chapel is seven-sided and has different motifs on each side in an endeavour to bring together the collective community. One side has an Aztec motif, another an Aboriginal madonna, and another a Scottish motif that happens to bear the crest of the Qan Macfie, one of the 13 original clans of Scotland. The monk just happens to be a McPhie. The significance of that motif is that the Scottish clearances dispossessed that clan of their homelands. The Benedictines wandered the world,. The Aborigines have been dispossessed, but they are being brought together as a family should be. (Time expired.) Motion (Mr Wharton) agreed to. The House adjourned at 2.35 a.m. (Wednesday).