Ray LeVier Living The Dream Interview: Mover Photos: Mike Dwyer, Diana Van Campen

It took me a few minutes to recall, and then it came back to me... “I remember Ray. I judged a drum-off competition that he was in quite a few years ago.” Then I recalled a bit more... that I had gotten into an argument with some of the other judges because I was the only one that voted Ray the winner. It wasn’t that the other judges didn’t necessarily feel otherwise, but they did feel that giving it to Ray, made it look like he was going to win out of sympathy. Well, that simply couldn’t have been farther from the truth; regardless, Ray got second place.

What struck me next was, “Man, as if this kid doesn’t have enough to battle, he also has this kind of prejudice to deal with too!” And that was the last time I thought about it and Ray, for quite some time.

Until walking through Greenwich Village one night and hearing, as usual, some amazing playing coming from The 55 Bar on Christopher Street. It could have been a number of great players–Keith Carlock, Dan Weiss, Tony Mason–so I popped my head in the door and saw Ray tearing it up.

How pleased I was to see and hear him playing, which not only solidified the feelings I had back at the drum-off, but also solidified that Ray was able to rise above and beyond anything in his way; proving that no obstacle was going to come between him and living the dream!

014 drumheadmag.com drumheadmag.com 015 instant playback, as opposed to the replaced. I wanted to track the drums linear style of a Pro Tools session of at a studio with a big room sound beginning to end of song. rather than my studio. I get really Once I’m satisfied with what I have good drum sounds in my studio, I’ll then bounce each track into Pro but I wanted that big room sound Tools. When I’m happy with a specific that I just don’t have at my place. instrument, I’ll print it and print the All but three songs were recorded at track to audio and start adding all another studio. the plug-ins and stuff, otherwise I’ll print it temporarily anyway just for JM: Seeing that you’re working in functionality and replace it later. MIDI and all, I’m assuming everything was done to a click. JM: How much are you using MIDI, RL: Oh yes, definitely. Also, it just as opposed to real instruments? makes editing so much easier down RL: There’s some marimba and the road, especially if I’m unsure vibraphone parts that I recorded as about certain sections of the songs audio and drums of course, but there in terms of production and the final were a few instruments that I wanted shape of the song. Most of the time I to replace the MIDI on cause it just never have a definite idea during the wasn’t cutting it sonically. writing process and editing continues all the way up to the final mixes. This JM: For example? way I can tweak the production of RL: Mainly the and bass parts. the song whenever. I like to work The record has a lot of MIDI on it– to a grid because it’s easier to do synth pads, basses, pads, pianos, edits quickly; I’ve learned from past drum loops, etc., sounds which I experience that it kills my flow if I get spent some time on and ultimately stuck in editing land. ended up keeping but I didn’t have an authentic guitar sound at my JM: Where did you end up tracking disposal and for a rock recording, the the drums? are a huge part of that sound RL: At the Clubhouse in Rhinebeck, I was going for and hearing. New York. It’s an amazing studio with a massive selection of great mics, a JM: That’s when you bring in a live Neve console, and an awesome live player or players. room to track drums in. It’s a nice, II waswas justjust tryingtrying toto shootshoot forfor thethe moon,moon, RL: Yeah, I asked my friend Rich relaxing, upstate, country vibe and Tozzoli to lay down some guitar parts. really conducive to feeling creative. knowingknowing thatthat ifif II hithit thethe mountain,mountain, We’ve been partnering and writing I’ve recorded there a few times with music for television for many years Rich and eventually became good itit wouldwould bebe acceptable.acceptable. now. He’s a talented composer/ friends with Paul Antonell, the owner. engineer who also happens to be I Immediately fell in love with the a badass guitarist and really knows place and the tracks were sounding how to dial in great guitar sounds. so ridiculous I knew I wanted more JM: Let’s talk about your new record. Times magazine. All around good couldn’t be more different than your for the most part I’m really doing He’s mixed for guys like Al DiMeola reasons to go back. [Laughs] Is it a recording like your prior feedback so I guess it worked out previous one; how so? everything myself from conception to and Ace Frehley so when the time One session in particular, Neil release? pretty well. RL: Well it’s definitely a left turn from completion. came it was a no-brainer to ask him Dorfsman just happened to be there RL: No, it couldn’t be more different my last project. It’s a rock record that to re-track the guitar parts. He also hanging out and engineering. from my last record. [Laughs] JM: What a great line-up, did you gives homage to some of the bands JM: I assume you’re starting out by did the final mixes, which I’m really My last project was with Mike Stern play live or tour at all? that I listened to growing up. programming the basics, and then happy with. JM: Nice guy to have around, and John Abercrombie on guitars, RL: No, we didn’t, it was primarily Before I found jazz, which wasn’t various steps to further the recording especially when tracking drums. Joe Locke on vibes, Francois Moutin a studio project first and a chance until later when I went to college process? JM: How about the drums, what was RL: Yeah. I got really nervous that on bass and Dave Binney on sax. to just get my name out there as really, I was very much influenced RL: For the writing, I started in Ableton the process there? he was there on the other side of the I admire those guys in a huge way a drummer. They had their own by a lot of classic rock and music using mostly all MIDI instruments, RL: For the drums, I recorded very glass, but he was such a beautiful cat musically and it was really great to separate projects, gigs and tours from the ‘80s growing up. I guess it’s and from there I iron out the form rough but specific parts during the that I forgot all about his credits as be able to work with them. The idea happening, and I felt I didn’t want to a stew of what just came out of me and get the song closer to how I writing phase, just to keep things an engineer. He was cracking jokes was to use guys with names as to step on what they had going on as emotionally at the time. want it. I like to work my ideas out in moving along so I wouldn’t get and just having a good time. He was attract attention to my solo debut as name players. All the songs were written, Ableton because it flows quicker for bogged down creatively. Most of a nice mix of calm, funny and serious a jazz artist. I got some really nice produced, arranged, performed and me. With Ableton I can sketch ideas the time, just programing MIDI drum all at once and made everyone feel reviews and a nice feature in Jazz JM: You just said this new record sung by me. It’s the first record that in clips mode in real time and get parts knowing all along that they’d get relaxed. We got to talking about

016 drumheadmag.com drumheadmag.com 017 my project and when he showed a JM: Was there a specific reason for have to do something for somebody. around seven or eight and was to do, so I thought, “I’ve got some to records and I saw that: “Wow! genuine interest in it I asked him if he doing a vocal record? I knew someone who was a real taking a lot of lessons, but then one drums. I’m going to pull them out and How do you do that?” That’s where would be willing to engineer the drum RL: I don’t know. I was going through codependent and I saw that dynamic day she decided, “I don’t want to start banging on them.” I pulled them the fascination clicked in–seeing tracking sessions. Neil engineered a breakup with my girlfriend at the of always being like the hero, the play piano anymore, I want to be a out, started banging on them and him playing along, playing the same the session with Mike Dwyer, who’s time and it all started coming out champion–this person who’s always, drummer!” My dad said, “Alright” and my grandmother wasn’t too happy, beat as the music, “That’s amazing!” the first call intern at the Clubhouse. like emotional vomiting [Laughs]. “Oh no, I got it.” got this used red sparkle Slingerland “Alright that’s enough,” because of The power of drumming, you know, He’s a Pro Tools wiz and really helped Actually, a lot of the songs were Another song came about when I kit. She played it for one day and course, I didn’t know what the hell I the consistency of how you have to me out a lot with post production; unfinished ideas I’d been working was at a yoga class one morning and then said, “I don’t think I like drums, was doing [laughs]. I asked if I could hit the drums and everything–it all getting the rough mixes together for on and after the breakup they just the guy says, “Make sure you look I think I like the piano more.” After bring the kit home to my , of a sudden came onto my radar…I Rich to finish before mastering. Mike started coming out of me. in the lost and found to get the rest that, this kit was just sitting around. which was with my mom, and once started playing that beat and is also playing some guitar parts on your stuff because we’re clearing out My dad would use it for rehearsals at there, I learned one simple, basic everything clicked, like the pieces of a couple tracks. JM: I’m sure that must have been the box.” I thought, “Lost and found– the house and it became the gig kit– rock beat…that’s all I could play. the puzzle came together. very therapeutic. that’s a cool concept for the record.” that if his drummer didn’t have a kit, I was only playing for a month JM: You also mentioned that you RL: It’s like, that’s what we do as Like, when you really lose yourself, he could use it. At that time, I didn’t JM: How did you pick it up? or two, and then I got burned; I got sung on the record. musicians; you have to take those that’s when you get some real deep really notice the drums at all. RL: The kid down the street was caught in the fire. RL: Yeah. I sing all the lead vocals, negative situations and turn them clarity as to what it’s all about. That’s One day I was in the basement at taking drum lessons and that’s where the harmonies, and created choirs as into something creative. Take the been a theme in my life and it really my grandmother’s house, where the I learned my one and only beat; he AM I DREAMING? well. pain and make something good resonated with me so I ended up kit eventually ended up; I had nothing showed me. He was playing along I sang multiple passes of as many come of it. I guess it was a good naming the record Lost and Found. different octaves as I could to create a excuse to start writing and singing choir of forty or so different voices for my own songs. SISTER ACT some songs. I used Ableton’s looper, JM: So, let’s go back to the beginning just layering and layering voices till I JM: You wouldn’t be alone in that and get the basics out of the way: got the result I was looking for. there are many who say that’s when How old were you? What hit you first: you write the best–when you’re going drums, music, other instruments? JM: Is singing something new for through something painful. Early influences… How, where and you? RL: It just flowed out of me in a big why did it all start? RL: I’ve always liked to sing and I’ve way and I just kept writing until it RL: First, my father’s a highly- done backups on some gigs and was finished. That’s what I’ve always accomplished pianist, as is my aunt recordings, but my focus has for done is try to use that negative Barbara, my dad’s sister–they both the most part has always been the energy to turn lemons into lemonade. went to Juilliard. My dad played in drums. Pain has a way of bringing out the the Navy band in Charleston, South creative honesty and I think that Carolina, where he met my mother, JM: What was it that made you take ideas naturally tend to come from who was a blues singer; they fell in singing more seriously? more of a sincere place during those love and she eventually moved north RL: Well, I started taking voice emotional times. to marry my dad and here I am. lessons with Judith Farris in Piano came first; my father sat Manhattan. I don’t know why, but I JM: What are some of the themes me down at the piano and we did a just really wanted to sing more, and and topics you wrote about? few lessons when I was about six or also wanted to do it correctly. She’s RL: There are songs about heartbreak seven… helped a lot of people on Broadway and unrequited love of course; to project without straining or hurting songs about what’s happening in JM: Did you take to it? your voice and her lessons are very our society today. I kept watching RL: I don’t know. There was nothing in unique. She’s a person who really the news about the Dakota Access my brain that went, “Yes! Instrument!” knows how to crack into you with no Pipeline and how the Indians are It was more of, “Okay dad, thanks for bullshit and expand what you were continually cheated out of their land. the lesson, I’m going to go play in the given. She was saying, “You should It bothered me so much to see these yard now.” As a kid, I took to riding be doing more with your voice, you people getting maced and shot at for my bicycle mostly. I got really into have a really good instrument.” She just trying to peacefully protect the bicycle motocross and would race instilled confidence in me to do it. land they owned and loved, only to be in competitions when I was nine. It’s not just about singing with her; taken away by big oil corporations. I I always liked to play outside as a it’s about how you carry yourself felt emotional about it and I wrote a kid and didn’t like the idea of being as a person and how confidence song called “Soul Reason.” trapped in a room practicing. translates into your performance There’s a song called “Plight of the life and personal life. A lot of her Hero” about the plight of the hero– When you really lose yourself, JM: Well, you certainly took to drums. coaching has helped my drumming where he can’t let anybody get close How and when did they come into as well. She teaches strong work to him out of fear of losing them… that’s when you get some real deep clarity the picture? ethics and working hard and that just it’s also the double of the RL: My sister is a classically trained resonated with me. codependent who always feels they pianist and started playing piano as to what it’s all about.

018 drumheadmag.com drumheadmag.com 019 whole backyard just lit up and called day-in-and-day-out torture sessions. a better grip and I could hold a stick the police. Lots of scraping dead skin off, and there, so for a while I would just play then they had to cover it up. I was with my right hand–coming down off JM: And you’re still on the grass… burned a couple inches above my the hi-hat for the backbeat on two and Pain has a way RL: Yeah, and I think I’m still navel, so the whole bottom half of four. dreaming–I think I’m at the beach. me was fine for taking donor skin in My right hand is as you see it, so I of bringing out the TR said, “ here, don’t move!” I’m order to graft the skin back up top. I could hold the stick. I went right back sitting there and looking at a tree, guess what kills you is infection, and to playing the basic beat. But, the left creative honesty. thinking, “How does a tree grow on your temperature going through the hand was a problem: “How am I going the beach? I don’t get this. Trees roof, so they had to keep me iced all to hold a stick with the left hand? don’t grow in sand.” That’s all I could the time and keep me drugged up Okay, let’s put the stick here,” and I think of: “How’s this tree growing in obviously. It was six months in the would duct tape it. the middle of the beach?” I was in the hospital…for a twelve-year-old, that middle of this field, but thinking I was just felt like an eternity! JM: Ouch. Not that you hadn’t suffered still at the beach. They finally let me go home, just enough… for sanity reasons. My mom became RL: Yeah! My fresh new skin was like JM: You were in shock. my nurse, because there were parts tissue paper; I would bleed. But, all RL: Yeah, I was in shock, but my mind of my scalp that were still not grafted, the bleeding and the healing, and the is thinking and trying to figure out and parts of my back too. bleeding and the healing, eventually where I am. I got scared. I’m at the toughened up this area. And I didn’t beach and wondering how I got here, THE CALLING care, all I cared was, “I’m playing the and all I can think of is, while I was drums, I don’t care if I’m bleeding.” JM: I honestly cannot imagine what sleeping, they put me in a car and Then, one day, I found this glove you must have gone through, but it somebody drove down to the beach. in a parking lot; it was like this weird must have felt so good to finally get I’m trying to figure it out. padded Kung Fu glove. I picked it home. up and threw it on my backseat. I’m RL: When I got home, the Slingerland JM: When did it hit you? driving along and saw this thing on my red sparkle kit was sitting there, and I RL: I started touching myself, because backseat, and thought, “Oh yeah, the just went right to it and sat down, and I felt weird. I touched my arm and it felt glove!” It dawned on me–you know, wanted to play so bad. crinkly, and it hurt when I touched it. you tend to have an inventive mind That’s when I went right into thinking, when you have to figure things out. JM: Wanted to play… “Oh my god! Something’s wrong. I’m For example, [Ray picks up his coffee] RL: Yeah. Back to when I was in the f*ck*d up. Something really bad has I can’t pick this up with one hand, I’ve hospital; for my birthday or something, happened.” I don’t know what; all I got to use two. You have to relearn all my dad asked, “What do you want?” I know is I want my mommy. these things. said, “I want a drum set.” And he said, JM: If you don’t mind me asking, what The sand started getting really hot, his father was a volunteer fireman so The next thing I know, my mom’s Anyway, I saw the glove and “Alright, fine. I’m going to set it up right happened and how old were you? I’m jumping up and down, and the he went right into: “Okay, I’ve got to there and I’m saying, “Am I okay? Am thought, “Screw it. I’ll just do to the here [in the hospital room], and when RL: I was 12. There was a chicken sun’s getting really hot, and then save this guy.” He woke up, ran out I okay?” “Yeah, you’re fine!” She really glove, what I do with the duct tape. you go home, you can play. We’ll coop in the backyard of the property everything’s getting hot. and tripped over my brother; then my didn’t know, because I had a really Instead of having to go through this figure it out.” Well, the nurse hears where we were living, and we were brother panicked and he just ran… deep tan and it was dark out, so she whole process of cutting off the duct this and pulls my father aside and camping out in it on the weekends; JM: You’re dreaming this, but… he thought he would get in trouble thought I was okay. She didn’t realize tape from my hand every time I’m says, “You know, he’s having a hard it was a chicken coop that we turned RL: That was me literally standing in because the place was burning. the extent of my burns. done, I’ll duct tape the glove and stick time, it might not be a good idea to into a fort. the fire, but still sleeping. He thought he was the only one in A police officer was the first one my hand in it.” That worked really well. get his hopes up about playing drums. We had just gotten back from They said it was miraculous that I there, so he was going to run into the on the scene and they were worried It was totally functional and it allowed You know… holding sticks.” My father a vacation on Long Beach Island even woke up because, with smoke woods for a little bit and then come about my brother because he was me to hit hard without pain and I just says, “You don’t know my son” and we went to sleep with a candle inhalation, you never wake up. You back later and see what happened. nowhere to be found. They thought he started to play in some bands during and walked away. Dad told me he burning on the wall. I was tired, so I don’t die a horrible burning death of died in the fire. We had actually dug a my time in high school. The only cried on the way home. I’m sure he was the first one to go to sleep, and “Ahhhh, I’m burning to death,” you JM: He didn’t realize you were still in basement in this chicken coop; a six- problem was that it felt like a dead cried more than once, you know. my brother and friends were hanging just never wake up. there. foot basement that you could stand up fish–there was no bounce, nothing. Then, once I was home, I had out and staying up a little later. So here I am, having this dream, RL: No. He didn’t know I got caught in. They thought maybe he fell into the But it really helped to strengthen another birthday coming up and my and next thing I know I hear somebody in the fire. And, you know, it was basement. They put the fire out, but all these muscles, especially to be dad got this new –a Maxwin, JM: Do you actually remember what say, “Put your hands over your eyes a hard thing for him later–that he they couldn’t find him anywhere. Then able to play a double, because each by Pearl. A total entry-level kit, but I happened? and mouth” and then I’m out in the should have been there to protect his early that morning, he came back. stroke… RL: Not really. I had a dream that I grass and someone’s rolling me younger brother. didn’t care, I just wanted a proper kit, so that’s what I got. And I was really was walking on the beach. I dreamt around. It was my brother’s friend TR Nonetheless, TR went into action, JM: What happened next? JM: It’s the wrist. happy to have that shiny new kit. I was back at L.B.I., down at the Baron who was a little older than us, grabbed me and rolled me on the RL: They rushed me to the Valhalla RL: Yes, every stroke came from the Jersey Shore, and the fences on and it’s a good thing that we got him to grass. Then he went up to the house Burn Unit in Westchester, and I spent wrist. JM: Were you actually able to play? the way to the beach encircled camp out with us that night because and banged on the door; my mother six, almost seven months there going RL: Well, this hand [left] was just a me–I’m trapped inside these fences. no one else was around. Fortunately, looked at the back and saw the through reconstructive surgeries and JM: Was it a choice to play traditional mitten. However, the right hand had

020 drumheadmag.com drumheadmag.com 021 grip, or is that the only way the stick learning the rudiments and applying RL: [Laughs] Yeah, there are certain You mentioned earlier; going to piano while I played drums to teach RL: The only thing that happened works for the left hand? them musically to the kit. Sal would things that no drummer can do that college. me about comp’ing; John would was something at Patterson. I asked RL: It’s the way this hand worked always talk about playing the music Buddy did. And Vinnie, he’s just a RL: Yes, I felt the need to go to always write out things he’d be one of the head guys in charge of the with the way the stick would sit in and making it swing and feel good. I freak! But to aim high for those goals college and study jazz: “If I’m going transcribing for the DCI videos for jazz department, I can’t remember there. I can do matched grip, but it really trusted him and really needed is what I think really helped me to to be a drummer, I’m going to be the guys like Weckl and Simon at the his name, something like: “So, what doesn’t feel as good as this. his blunt and honest feedback at achieve what I wanted, and what I best schooled drummer I can be. And time. He showed me how powerful do you think? Do I have what it takes the time. He made it clear I had to was hearing. be a musician, not just some guy that transcribing could be for my playing. to be a jazz drummer?” SCHOOLING put in the hours if I really wanted it.I And musically, I really gravitated swings sticks.” That was my idea and He was like a drumming dictionary continue to practice very hard even toward at the time reason for going to college. and could write out licks from Tony JM: And you’re expecting to hear JM: Were you just playing on your today as my schedule allows. I enjoy because of the technical aspects or Elvin or anyone I was checking something encouraging… own all the time or did you seek out the process of practicing and I’m of drumming in that style. But I was JM: Where did you study and was it out. Their work ethic towards the RL: Yeah, “It’s a hard road, but if you anyone to study with? always trying to expand my playing always interested in lots of genres all that you expected? music really impressed me, and practice... you’re going to have a RL: I played as a self-taught drummer and ideas. It’s a never-ending journey and not just one or two. RL: William Patterson; I didn’t their playing of course, but I also shot.” Instead, he said, “Well, there’s for a minute, but the guy that I started and can be frustrating or satisfying graduate, but I did three years of learned about the “hang” and how a lot of young lions out there that are studying with and where most depending on how you look at it. BA in Performance. They have a important that was for musicians. really hungry… You might get some advancements as a drummer came JAZZED UP great program there. When I was cocktail gigs and stuff like that, but…” from was with Sal Larocca. I studied JM: From a basic rock beat to jazz JM: It’s very obvious, the time you going there, Rufus Reid was one JM: You mentioned studying with He shot me down. with him for many years and he fusion… put in, were you also listening to any of the directors on the staff–he was Sal Larocca, which sounds like a After school, I went down to get really helped get me to a very high RL: Well, at first I was listening to guys and/or getting into music that my instructor for ensemble a few wonderful experience, and then going my car, and I’m crying, “F*ck that level, to the point where I wanted to rock and metal, but then I went over interested you? times–and it was just an amazing to college for music and drums, but I guy. What the f*ck does he know? eventually pursue drumming as a to someone’s house one day, and RL: Yeah, I was going out all the time experience. While I was there I have to ask; Any obstacles along the Nobody’s going to tell me what my career and go to college. the guy said, “You’re a drummer, and checking out lots of bands. I really studied with John Riley and Horace way? Aside from that nurse in the life is going to be like,” and it just got who do you listen to?” “Metallica dug the Screaming Headless Torsos Arnold and these guys really exposed hospital, anyone ever say or imply, me angry and made me want to dig JM: What did he have you working on? and Anthrax,” and he goes, “Ah, with Jojo [Mayer]. Lost Tribe with my weaknesses. Horace would play “Sorry kid, it’s not going to happen.” even deeper. RL: A lot of rudiments, which really whatever. Man, you should listen to Ben Perowsky, I’d go to the 55 Bar helped to develop my hands. For some jazz fusion, that’s great stuff.” frequently to check out Mike [Stern] starters, I was expected to know I’m thinking, “Fusion! That’s a cool because he always had amazing all the original 26 rudiments and word I’ve never heard. What is this guys with him like Ritchie Moralez, then a lot of variations. His lessons fusion?” John Riley, and Ben. Rodney Holmes were demanding but very beneficial and his band knocked me out. Not for building my playing and reading JM: And what did you find out? only can he play his ass off but he is skills over time. He insisted I learn RL: I went to a record store and asked: a talented composer as well and that how to read, which came in handy “Have you heard of fusion? Do you aspect inspired me to eventually start down the road. Lots of books for have any?” “Oh yeah! Yellowjackets, writing my own music. I took some developing my hands like Ted Reed Weather Report…” lessons with Jojo, Tommy Campbell, Syncopation, Stick Control, Charley Marvin “Smitty” Smith; I studied at Wilcoxen Rudimental Swing Solos, JM: That’s a good start! the Drummers Collective with the the N.A.R.D. Book, Master Studies RL: Oh man, I went home with Black late Kim Plainfield. I’m super grateful by Joe Morello. Groove books like Market [Weather Report] and one of I had the chance to be his student. Realistic Rock by Appice, Future the early Yellowjackets records, and I started listening to a lot of Sounds by Dave Garibaldi, all four it just blew my whole world open. drummers; I was just trying to shoot Patterns books by Gary Chaffee, Then, from there I just started seeking for the moon, knowing that if I hit the Four Way Coordination by Elliot Fine, out fusion and found Steve Gadd, I mountain, it would be acceptable. I way too many books to list them all. found Vinnie Colaiuta, Dave Weckl, continued with Sal for many years I got to the point where I just couldn’t Steve Smith, Dennis Chambers... and he was turning me on to guys get enough and became obsessed And then it’s an incestuous thing like , , with finding new books to go through. where, “Okay, Steve Gadd’s on this Vinnie, Steve Gadd, Billy Cobham, The lessons consisted of warming jazz record. I don’t know what this Max Roach, Philly Joe, Art Blakey up with rudiments, reading, groove record is, I’ve never heard of this and Elvin, to name some. I would study and playing good time, working artist before, but if Steve’s on there I try to play and reproduce what I on different styles and feels, soloing want to hear it,” you know. That’s the WhereWhere there’sthere’s aa will,will, was hearing and try to get some ideas, working on trading fours, way it sprouted out into discovering crumbs of ideas into my playing. My eights and so on. all these things. I found my way into there’sthere’s aa way...way... mentality was: I can do this. I just He was a very thorough teacher jazz going through the back door to have to work really hard and I’ll get and demanded a lot from his students. study jazz and go to school. there eventually. you’llyou’ll findfind itit eventuallyeventually He would also make playlists of tunes and that really helped me JM: The same here. I bought so many JM: Shoot for the moon… you chose asas longlong asas wewe don’tdon’t givegive up.up. with learning songs and song forms. records because of the drummer and drummers that would equate to His approach was kind of like Alan often times had nothing to do with shooting for another galaxy! Dawson and Morello when it came to the artist or the music.

022 drumheadmag.com drumheadmag.com 023 TheThe humanhuman bodybody isis miraculous;miraculous; it does its thing and it just adapts. That’s my forte: I’m stubborn and hold a stick.” He said that and I stick with it; because the stick would in the web between my thumb and next day he called me on the way if I want to do something, nothing is immediately thought, “Ahhh, no.” I want to barrel roll and start slipping finger, where the stick sits. It’s very to the Blue Note thanking me for FOR LIFE going to get in my way. That was the was just so done with hospitals. I felt away–the glue would keep it from accurate. There’s a lot of feeling in turning him on to the glue. It really JM: You mentioned your drum fortitude I had in music and in life. like a guinea pig being prodded and rolling around. It gave me a real firm these hands. Actually, there was an helped him out. I was thrilled that I studies before, rudiments and all, That’s what the accident gave me. poked…no more. grip to the point that I don’t need the issue with this thumb, which was could help out someone I’ve admired and of course, now you’re playing The fire gave me a gift. “I didn’t die, But, I thought about it and thought rubber band...or better yet elastics oversensitive–a nerve that I had to for so long and that he came to me professionally; I assume you’re still I’m alive. Alright, I can do anything I about it and eventually admitted [laughs], if it’s not a hard-hitting gig. beat into submission over the years. for help. I saw Mike later on and he practicing and learning. want. The worst is over.” It was that to myself, “I am serious about this, said, “Hey man, I mentioned you in RL: That’ll be a lifelong process. I feeling of: I escaped death and I can and I do want to be able to hold this JM: And you can still use the stick in JM: Whatever it takes to play. an interview in Downbeat about the think anybody that wants to pursue do this, I know I can. stick without a glove.” It was a hard different ways… RL: Yeah, you do what you have to glue. Thanks, you saved my ass bro.” the art of drumming knows you’re decision, but eventually I got the RL: Yeah. I choke up on the stick at do. I wanted to drum so bad, that I Man, I was touched beyond words to never going to learn it all. Someone BAND-IT operation and I’m so glad I made that different points: for doing a rock gig, I didn’t care. I didn’t care if it hurt on say the least! But my point is–where like Steve Smith, who’s one of my choice. choke up and I go back on the stick. every stroke; you’re going to do there’s a will, there’s a way...you’ll heroes, in that he’s the guy that he JM: Having seen and heard you play, But, I’ve found that place where the something you want to do. find it eventually as long as we don’t still practices like a kid in light of truer words could not be spoken. You JM: What exactly was the operation? sweet spot is, where I can get a lot of Speaking of doing what you want give up. his already astonishing career as mentioned finding and wearing the RL: Basically, this [left] thumb was power out of the stick and I can still to do, I don’t know if you’ve heard a drummer. There’s nothing more glove in a way that enabled you to there, but it was kind of stuck into the get the buzz, and also play doubles that Mike Stern had a bad fall tripping JM: I’ve seen lots of different sticks inspiring than that! play, and yet, the few times I’ve seen palm with all the skin. comfortably. The human body is over some debris while hailing a cab out there on the market, in the way you, you’ve not used a glove, but miraculous; it does its thing and it and broke both arms. of bigger gripping areas or even JM: Every time you see him he’s got rather elastics as a way of holding JM: Skin healed over and all stuck just adapts. These hands have been multiple ridges to grip, have you tried some new trick up his sleeve. the sticks and controlling the notes. together. like this way longer than not; most of JM: Oh yeah, I heard all about it. any of those? RL: Yeah! He’s always got his sticks When and how did that happen? RL: Exactly. So, they pulled this my life now. Nothing feels weird for RL: Well, months later, when he RL: No, I’m using the Vater Fusion in his hands, he’s always better. I’ve RL: Elastics! That sounds much thumb out. I came home and I could me at all, this is completely normal, started playing again, he had a hard Acorn, it’s close to a 5A I think. had the honor of meeting Steve a few cooler than rubber bands. [Laughs] hold the stick, but I tried playing and so my technique and everything time holding the pick in his right hand, They make really straight and times; I kind of stalked him [laughs]. I should mention Keith Crane at and it kept slipping out of my hand, is really very natural for me and for due to some nerve damage. I got a consistent sticks. I’m really happy to this point who I also studied with; I “This ain’t gonna work.” Then, I saw what I do. phone call from him late one night, be with them, so major shout-out to JM: How so? took lessons with Keith for a couple a rubber band and thought, “Wait “Hey Ray, I’m playing the Blue Note everyone there at Vater. Like I said, RL: I saw him backstage at a drum of years and learned so much from a minute.” I put the rubber band JM: Speaking of feeling, when I’m this week with Chick [Corea]. I got I can do matched, but traditional just festival; he was warming up, and, him. He really helped me with my around the stick and then around the playing a double-stroke or a French this glove that I Velcro a pick to but always felt right. When I do jazz gigs, “Oh my God, I’ve got to meet Steve.” time playing and grooving to a click. back of my hand; I let go of the stick roll, I can feel it in my fingers and in it’s not working very well. I dropped I don’t use a rubber band because So, I went into his dressing room, He was the one that said, “You seem and “prrrrrrrr,” I got a buzz, and when the bouncing off my palm, how many my pick last night and it freaked me I’m switching from sticks to brushes and he looked up with this look of, like you really want to do this. You I grab it again, it goes right back in strokes are there. What are you out. What’s the stuff you use to help and back and I have a little bit of glue “Who the hell are you and why are might want to think about getting and stops. From there, I fine-tuned it feeling? you hold onto your sticks?” So, I told so it’s just sticky enough…if you try you in my dressing room?” I think I an operation on your left hand to where I took wig glue and coated the RL: I can feel all that too, but more him about the wig glue I use. The to pull that stick out, it’s not that easy. said, “Oh! Mr. Smith, I just wanted 024 drumheadmag.com drumheadmag.com 025 to say hi. You’re one of my heroes. Have a good show” and that was it. ONE TWENTY Then I saw him again at some gig JM: You’ve played with some great and he remembered, “Oh, you’re artists. Do you ever find yourself in TRACKS My mentality was: that guy!” Then I saw him again and, the position of thinking or feeling that 01-02 “Oh, yeah. Hey, what’s your name?” you have more to prove than the I can do this. We slowly got to meet and know average drummer that could be on each other. The guy’s just amazing the same gig? because he’s always practicing. RL: Nobody’s ever made me feel like: “Prove yourself to me,” but I’ve JM: There’s no other way to get that always had it in the back of my head good. Even Vinnie has sticks in his that I’m going to give 120% just in hands all the time. case. I can’t afford to give just 100%, RL: Exactly. I’ve always loved it has to be more than that. It’s always practicing. There were days where I been my mentality of going the extra would sit there for eight to 12 hours; mile. I didn’t want anything else in life. I I never wanted to be that guy: didn’t want a girlfriend. I didn’t want “Ah, he’s not really cutting it.” My to go out and hang. I just wanted to standard was always: “I don’t want stay home, be alone in my room and to be the not-cutting-it guy.” I want do my homework on the drums; try to to be somebody who’s always figure this and that out. prepared, can read the charts, does I started, really started studying his homework and is a nice guy. All when I was 16, 17, 18–I was really those things are really important. ramped up to study, and study hard, As you know, it’s not just being a because I knew I wanted to go to drummer. I remember you saying college. Once I knew I wanted to do something about the 22 hours with it, that’s when I started to put in many the band and two hours onstage. hours; that’s all I wanted. For a good two or three years JM: Yeah: The two hours a day I did eight to 12 hours a day and it onstage are easy, it’s the other 22 really paid off. I also knew I started hours in the day that can be the late in the game and felt I needed to tough part. practice really hard to make up for RL: Yeah. It’s how you get along with lost time. people. And that’s all throughout life. I think every drummer has a If you’re a dick, nobody wants to work certain peak, where they go from with you, whether you’re a drummer one place to a really high level, or a CEO or whatever. within anywhere up to the three or four years, depending on how much TAKE A SEAT time they put in. I mean, you can’t JM: The artist you’re most affiliated say enough for experience. with is KJ Denhert, which is quite longstanding. How did that come JM: I agree and that goes for on and about? off the kit. RL: Oh man, I met KJ back in ’95. RL: Life experiences and all that stuff I had just moved to Fort Lee, New shape who you are as a drummer. I Jersey, to be close to Manhattan–I feel like that’s coming into play now. had a dog, a car, and a drum kit that As I get older, those things season I had to carry around, so living in you and give you your sound. You Manhattan didn’t seem like a smart become more of who you are in life idea financially or geographically. I from what you’ve learned, loved and found this one-bedroom apartment lost. Or more accurately, lost and close to the city and was just there found [laughs]. All of that shapes practicing every day. I bought a 6’ who you are because it’s you; the X 6’ Whisper Room that I had in my instrument is just the plumbing, if you apartment so I could practice without II justjust havehave toto workwork reallyreally hardhard will, of what’s happening internally. destroying the neighbor’s ears. Anyway, I met this guy, Freddie andand I’llI’ll getget therethere eventually.eventually. Pastore, a bass player that was in PHOTO: ANTHONY JOHNSON 026 drumheadmag.com drumheadmag.com 027 this band with a singer-songwriter JM: You tour quite a bit with her and JM: When it comes to doing clinics named Jen Levy. KJ was friends with go to some really interesting places. and master classes… I would What does Ray bring to the table as Jen and was helping her out; Jen RL: Yeah. We’ve been all over the imagine that it’s not just about a player (live and in the studio), band had some nice tunes, but needed world; Egypt, Nepal, a whole playing–but perseverance, facing KJ Denhert member and person in general. some help and KJ was a little more bunch of times. We go to St. Barts adversity, overcoming obstacles… KJ: Ray has literally been like a brother seasoned as a performer. every year–16 years we’ve been RL: Correct, it’s more about the to me. With twenty years and tours, and So, I met KJ, and she really going there; playing at the Baz Bar, big picture. Yeah, I’ve done clinics sixteen years spending almost a month loved my playing and asked for my in Gustavia, right in the harbor. in the past and would really like to each year on tiny St. Barths, we became number. We started talking, and she do more. I’d like to fall in with the a family–a couple of times we had to room told me that she had her own band JM: I can think of worse places to right people to make those things together. Ray is good natured and was but already had a drummer, but if play [laughs]; sounds like an all- happen more down the road, but quite the adventure seeker, especially in she needed someone at some point, round ideal situation. I’ve been self-promoting my own the early years. she’d let me know. RL: It is. She’s family. Actually me, clinics in music stores like Sam Ash Out of curiosity, I went to one of her her and [bassist] Mamadou Ba; we’re and Guitar Center for now. It’s a mix How have the twenty years with him gigs. I saw this drummer, and he was the core unit and there’s a synergy of playing, teaching and inspiring has evolved, musically and personally. good, but immediately I knew, “Oh, and a vibe and a friendship there that people through example. I get so KJ: In some ways, to stay musically no. This is my gig.” It was just, “I’m is... well, you heard the band–there’s much out of it; it really makes you bonded, we drifted in and out of personal here and I’m feeling this, and this cat a “band sound.” focus on: what I’m going to play, closeness. We all used to have parties is not.” And it wasn’t an egotistical I guess It’s just something that what I’m going to say, and how I’m and see each other a little more often thing. I just really felt, “I want to play develops naturally over many years going to say it. You know, being very than now. As non-music things in our with this woman; she’s amazing!” She of playing with the same people. concise about what you’re doing lives changed–marriages, relationships, had great tunes–a mix of meets There’s a built-in energy that we and what you are saying. It forces homes, pets and vehicles–the personal jazz, meets a singer, , with have. The same energy that made me to look inward about: what do I What do you remember about the first time rhythms of our lives changed, but the pop sensibility; all the things I’d been Ringo great with the Beatles, and want to get across to people about meeting Ray; your impression of him as a player commitment to the band was there and the history on working on stylistically at the time. Charlie Watts great with the Stones. this instrument. Drumming has really and person? stage shone strongest through the music. Just a really nice sound, with a great It’s amazing to be in a band for so helped shape who I am as a person KJ: Ray always had an easy groove and a sense of We had some great times, especially in Italy playing voice and her guitar playing is really many years and to have the synergy, and has given me so much and humor. He made you feel comfortable about his injury in residence at Umbria Jazz eleven times between funky and natural and swinging and the friendship and the camaraderie– happiness. and as a player, I found it pretty easy to stay with him. 2006 and 2014. When there are no charts–and there grooving. it’s a good feeling! weren’t–we were each adding to our own palettes JM: I know exactly what you mean. When did you actually consider him for the individually and the songs grew organically within us JM: Sounds like a dream gig. SLACKING OFF For me, it’s easy to play and do the permanent seat behind you? individually and as a group. I tried to write music that RL: It is. Q & A, but what I find most difficult KJ: We met working for another singer/songwriter JM: Do you ever find that you’re cut featured the individual strengths. is trying to convey just how much I Jen Levy. I had my own band and Dan Hickey was slack? Playing every day for ten days, twice a day, you JM: But, she had another drummer… love drums and drumming. It’s hard playing drums, I was thrilled until the band They Might RL: Because of what happened? can build something amazing; try that over a period of what did you do? to express the amount of joy that I Be Giants decided Dan was their man. Then, another years and you can have something completely unique, RL: I ended up doing a couple gigs get from playing drums. It’s such a great NY drummer, Swiss Chris, did a number of shows JM: Yes, on and off the kit. and I think everybody realized that. I tried to make it with her when her drummer couldn’t big part of my life; music is my life. and recorded my second with me. I remember RL: I’m sure, sometimes, but that’s the best experience possible having stopped being a do it. Then one day she just called, I would imagine it must be the inviting Ray to check out my band at the Bitter End, none of my business or where my side player after that gig that Ray and I met on. “You know, the drummer’s not same for you, maybe even more so and he made some comment about my focus is at. Of course, everybody has working out. Would you like to play in in that; yes, you survived the fire, so band being a bunch of studio musicians. a perception on most things, including the band?” Twenty years later, here drums didn’t save your life, but they I remember laughing in my head; I was what happened to me. Sometimes, we are. became your life, in that they gave always building bands based on one I get pulled over [speeding] and you something to live for. thing–songs I liked. maybe they let me go because, “Oh, JM: I’m sure she caught a vibe and RL: Yeah. Music is such a healing I think Ray started subbing at my look at this guy, obviously a lot of shit your interest from the first time you thing, and drumming not only gave residency at Groove in The Village, and happened to him. He doesn’t need a showed up. me a will to live, but gave me a will I even played Arthurs for a while before ticket; let him go.” I use that to my RL: Once I went to see her play and to excel at something that I know Ray suggested The 55 Bar. These advantage [laughs]. I started listening to her music, I I’m good at. This is what I really try are some old New York gigs now, and In terms of playing; like I said, it’s asked, “Do you have any CDs? Can I convey when I speak to people at even then, the beauty was that we got perception on the other person’s learn your music?” Then I went home clinics. to play a lot and regularly. The 55 was part. Maybe Mike [Stern] saw me and and just did my homework–I learned the one that cemented Ray and me and thought, “Wow! I feel something for her stuff. When the time came to play JM: And best of all, to make a living Mamadou Ba, who was with me on bass this guy because of what happened with her, I was prepared. doing what you love. since the beginning. to him,” but at the end of the day, if RL: Absolutely! We’re so lucky that We played so much that we took you’re not cutting the gig…nobody’s JM: Obviously you were the right fit. way to be drummers. I just try to keep on a kind of swing that is part me and going to sabotage their own sound to RL: Yeah, I grew up musically with things simple and have gratitude for part Ray, and the steady part driven by be with somebody that can’t play. And her. I really feel like she’s a sister at everything that comes my way. Or Mamadou Ba. again, that goes back to me giving it this point. doesn’t [laughs]. more than 100%–to make sure that I can keep that at a minimum.

028 drumheadmag.com drumheadmag.com 029 On a more personal level it’s good first take and move on quickly [Laughs] Four years ago I started about working hard on my dreams, without ever sacrificing quality, of skateboarding; that’s something whatever they may be. I look at course. Writing TV cues is all about that’s become a passion of mine. drumming and life like a game I’m tracking fast and without II havehave toto approachapproach writingwriting always trying to win at. Never a overthinking things. I think of it as on- JM: What a coincidence that all power trip where it’s power over a the-spot composing, or what I like to three start with SK [laughs]. I loved inin thethe samesame wayway situation or anything like that but refer to as a ROMA Jam [Right Out of skateboarding when I was a kid. I’ve more about power into everything My Ass]–playing with confidence as got a bunch of friends in L.A. trying II approachapproach drumming–drumming– we come up against in life and try if I just came off a three-month tour. to get me into surfing. I’d really like to to always learn something new, and I know I’d love it, but I have an hopefully becoming a better person JM: When you say for TV; mostly extremely strong aversion to sharks. putput inin thethe hourshours ofof practicing,practicing, because of it. There’s never been coming up with snippets and RL: Yeah, that’s the one thing about a doubt that I’m not doing the right segments… surfing–I don’t want my feet dangling listeninglistening andand learning.learning. thing with my career. I mean, there RL: Yeah, having a formula like down there… I’d rather take a slam are doubts in terms of like, what’s ABAB, with some breaks and the on concrete [laughs] than... the next step, that type of thing, but stinger at the end. It’s a lot of fun they’re all internal, personal things because we hand out these cues to JM: Feel a nibble [laughs]. What about getting to a better place as a the audio houses, so nobody’s on got you into skateboarding? musician and a person. our back saying, “I need this or that.” RL: I was just in a store one day and We just do a little bit of everything; found myself looking at a skateboard, PRODUCTION give them some hard rock, quirky “Why not? It looks like fun.” I wanted jazz, ambient stuff, frontier music a skateboard since I was kid, so I JM: Again, the big picture. Aside from for an Alaskan show…we’re doing threw it in my trunk and just started drumming, you’re also discovering new music all the time. It’s all about skating in the parking lots. Then I other things in music. volume, because it’s pennies on the started watching videos and man, RL: Yeah, I really enjoy the production dollar. It’s just a few seconds, so it’s next thing I know I’m obsessed side of things as well. It’s important whatever they give you per second with skating and learning all these to me to expand my horizons beyond for music going on underneath tricks. I’ve got a friend who owns this drumming. a dialogue. It’s taken a long time massive warehouse on his property for my checks to even amount to and inside he built a 12-foot-deep JM: It always interests me to speak to anything, but it’s a lot of fun because wooden bowl–it goes from 7 feet drummers about production. When I get to stay home–I can track in my into a 12 foot. This guy’s almost sixty you say that you’re producing, and underwear if I want and nobody’s years old and skates his ass off. I go you want to get into more production; telling me what to do. [Laughs] It’s there pretty much every Saturday for what is your role as producer? nice. Each day is different, so it’s a sessions with him and my friends and Because it really is very different lot of fun. feel that skating has really helped my from person to person. It’s not like I’m the producer, drumming. RL: Well, when I say production, standing there, telling the bass it’s not necessarily producing player what to do. Though I do that JM: Really, how so? the whole picture. Skating does that with some gigs and maybe a tour… though; it’s good to have CDs for other bands; although I’m totally sometimes–I put in my two cents with RL: Because when you drop into a for me. what’s on the agenda? people who do want something more down for that… One of the things I KJ’s band. When Rich and I work, it’s skate bowl, it’s like the same thing I also started riding horses not too RL: Well, I’m not sure how much I tangible. realized was: I don’t want just to be a lot of 50/50 in terms of writing and as dropping in on beat one–you’ve long ago, and that’s the same thing– want to support this record doing a drummer. I wanted to learn theory just helping each other along. got to commit every part of your you really have to be right there and live gigs, but we’ll see. I just hope JM: You mentioned the new record and harmony, and learn how to play I wouldn’t mind doing more fiber to what’s happening right in the you have to be really sensitive to people dig the record that do listen was rock, is it a new direction that’s other instruments like the vibes, producing in terms of producing moment. what’s happening. This horse can to it. I’m working with a company going to replace playing jazz? marimba and piano. I can’t play bands and artists–I’m learning more feel a fly land on its leg, so it knows if called Cyber PR to get all the social RL: Not at all. It’s a side project. I’m chords on the piano but through MIDI, as I go along and still becoming a JM: “Dropping in,” meaning you’re you look to the left or if you look to the media aspects together and doing already writing and planning my next I can write them all out as long as I better musician. I’m really working on the edge of the bowl and about to right, it feels your weight. It’s a very as much as I can with distribution jazz project for late 2018 or early have the understanding of theory. I on writing music, and I have to take the plunge? hypersensitive animal, so you have online. Of course, I would welcome 2019–more of a jazz, funk, fusion use matched grip for the mallets and approach writing in the same way I RL: Yeah, you just drop in and you’re to be right on point, the focus has to anyone who wants to know what’s thing and maybe vocals on a couple again using the wig glue on my left approach drumming–put in the hours go from 0 to [swoosh] flying along, be there. You’re riding this thing like a happening–they can sign up for my tracks too, we’ll see. There’s that mallet for a better grip. I also created of practicing, listening and learning. and if you let your concentration motorcycle, but it’s a living, breathing newsletter to stay informed. world and then there’s this world, a Y mallet for the left hand that plays lapse, there are consequences. You creature, and you’re giving it input. and I like to juggle both. a third on the bars and the right can have to be really confident while There are cool similarities with music JM: Will it be a tangible CD or the I feel really blessed to do what hold two mallets to play chords. SKATING BY staying right in the moment. It’s very and animals. digital route of downloading? I do as a musician, and make all Producing for me is more geared JM: How about outside of music? similar to music and drumming in RL: It’s going to be mostly download. different kinds of music for different toward television–writing and I wouldn’t be surprised if you told that way. It’s definitely a confidence STILL JAZZED It doesn’t really make sense to have circumstances. There’s a lot of joy recording TV tracks and moving fast me you’re into skydiving or skeet physical CDs, people are just going that we get out of what we do that builder. I try to find things outside of JM: Let’s get back to the new record. in my studio. Since working with Rich shooting. to use them as coasters anyway lots of people just never get to drumming and music that enhance Are you going to be promoting it over the years I’ve learned to get a RL: Well, funny you should ask. [laughs]. I’ll probably press a few experience. As you know, you’ve 030 drumheadmag.com drumheadmag.com 031 to those enlightening moments that force things to change, or derail you and put you on a whole new path. DrummingDrumming notnot onlyonly gavegave meme aa RL: Exactly. That’s the concept of lost and found. It’s when you get willwill toto live,live, derailed, or lost, or hurt; that’s always when the light comes in.

JM: To quote Leonard Cohen: “There’s a crack in everything. That’s how the light gets in.” I couldn’t agree more, but I’m pretty sure you had that from the beginning. There are most, that had they gone through what you went through, would not have persevered: “Oh, pity me.” RL: I’ve never been that person. Honestly, on the contrary, that shit pisses me off. If anybody ever comes to me with that, I’m like, “Don’t do that to me man! I don’t want that. That’s your shit. That’s not my , that’s what you’re dealing with.” I had to learn that at a very young age; people looking at me with aversion or whatever–it’s not my stuff, it’s their stuff. My have been really great in that way: You have to be okay with yourself, you have to know where you’re coming from, and you have to be your true north. You have to know, that things happen to you, and you have an inner compass that’s there for you.

JM: You have to navigate to where you want to go. RL: Yeah, for lack of a better word. As a 12-year-old, I was forced to butbut gavegave meme aa willwill look and got to see some pretty deep concepts that maybe made me grow toto excelexcel atat somethingsomething up faster than I needed to or wanted to, but I don’t have any regrets. I that I know I’m good at. really don’t. Regardless of what’s that I know I’m good at. happened, I feel blessed. As they say: The joy is in the journey, and I’m having a good time. If I could do it all over again, would I traveled the world and you’ve played touring with KJ, writing, practicing choose to be burned? Probably not, I in front of thousands of people. and getting to the next level as a don’t know. Maybe I wouldn’t have all drummer, and as a human being. the insights or gratitude I now have JM: There’s nothing like it. Each year, as you get older, things about life. But, being that is what RL: Where else can you go to work take on different meanings. Things happened and here I am–I’m living and every few minutes, people stand in your life now mean something my dreams. I really am. I’m blessed. up and clap and cheer: “Great Job!” entirely different than they did in your How many people can say that? [Laughs] twenties.

JM: It’s all part of the big picture. JM: That’s the beauty of it. It’s not WEBFOOT RL: It really is. Producing, recording, always pleasant, but I do look forward raylevier.com

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