Tuesday Volume 564 11 June 2013 No. 15

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 11 June 2013

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2013 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 139 11 JUNE 2013 140

with its responsibility to reduce health inequalities. House of Commons That is why it is conducting a fundamental review, which it says it hopes will inform the next set of allocations Tuesday 11 June 2013 for 2013-14. John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare) (Con): The Secretary The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock of State will be aware that in my area of north Somerset, in Weston-super-Mare, the actual allocations versus the PRAYERS intended amounts of cash which should arrive with us based on the existing formula, are well below what they should be; so even without changing the funding formula, [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] we are still getting dramatically less cash than we should. I urge the Secretary of State to look at that swiftly and see what can be done, within the existing spending BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS envelopes, to make the allocations fairer.

LONDON LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND TRANSPORT FOR Mr Hunt: As I said, I share my hon. Friend’s concerns LONDON (NO.2)BILL [LORDS] about the way funding works at the moment. We are in Consideration of Bill, as amended, opposed and a very difficult situation because if we were to move deferred until Tuesday 18 June (Standing Order No. 20). closer to the formula proposed by ACRA—I am sure he would agree with me that it is right that it is done independently of Ministers, and in this case it is done Oral Answers to Questions under NHS England—it would mean cuts in real terms for the budgets in other areas. Given the pressures overall in the NHS, that was obviously a decision that NHS England was very reluctant to make. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab): The last Government matched health funding to health need and reduced the The Secretary of State was asked— gap in male life expectancy and infant mortality, but this Government have reduced the weighting for health Clinical Commissioning Groups (Funding) inequalities. The Secretary of State’s public health allocations mean that the areas he has identified today 1. Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): What plans the with the biggest health challenges do not get a fair Government have to change the NHS formula for share. The area with longest male life expectancy, funding clinical commissioning groups; and if he will Kensington and Chelsea, gets £133 per head, but Liverpool make a statement. [158866] gets £89, Manchester £86, Luton £61, and Slough just £37. If he really wants to do something about health The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt): inequalities, should he not match his words with deeds Allocations to CCGs are the responsibility of NHS and give more to the areas with the greatest challenges? England. However, I have been advised that NHS England will rely on advice from the Advisory Committee on Mr Hunt: The right hon. Gentleman really cannot Resource Allocation (ACRA) for changes in the CCG have it both ways. The budget for public health is also formula. decided by an independent body, and we gave everyone a real-terms increase and then used any remaining Hugh Bayley: The failure of the Government to use money to even out the differences, to get everyone as the long-established funding formula for the NHS in close as possible to the independent formula. But if we dividing the budget between CCGs in north Yorkshire are talking about spending, I think the right hon. Gentleman has left us with glaring anomalies, so that in York, the needs to say precisely whether he stands by his assertion funding is £1,050 per head, but for Scarborough and that Governments should cut spending on the NHS by Ryedale, which is served by the same NHS foundation £600 million—[Interruption.] He says he has never said trust, the funding is £1,234 per head. That is quite it before, but actually, up till now he has always said that unsustainable and will lead to further postcode rationing. it was irresponsible for the Government to increase The same funding formula must be applied to all CCGs spending in real terms. We have increased it; we have throughout the country. When will that happen? increased it by £600 million. He needs to come clean on whether he still wants to cut the NHS budget. Mr Hunt: I share the hon. Gentleman’s concerns about the way that NHS funding is allocated to different Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): Given that age is parts of the country. The allocation in my constituency the main driver for an individual’s health care needs, is about the same as in his constituency, and I have long why has not age been given more weighting in the worried that things like age and rurality are not factored funding formula in the past? I urge the Secretary of into the final amounts in the way that they need to be. State to request NHS England to give as much weighting However, in this case NHS England decided that if it as possible to age in any future funding formula. was to follow precisely the ACRA recommendations, it would lead to higher growth for areas with better health Mr Hunt: I recognise that my hon. Friend has outcomes and lower growth, or even cuts, for areas with campaigned on that issue a great deal, and I have great less good outcomes, which it thought would be inconsistent sympathy, because areas with high age profiles do have 141 Oral Answers11 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 142 much greater needs for the NHS. That obviously must The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt): be weighted against things like social deprivation, which I asked the Independent Reconfiguration Panel to undertake also have an impact. It is right for these things to be a full review of the “Safe and Sustainable” review of decided independently, which they are. The question is children’s congenital heart services. I have received and how we get closest to those independent allocations, am currently considering that advice, and will make my and I know that that is preoccupying NHS England at decision known shortly—perhaps very shortly. the moment. Stuart Andrew: I am grateful for that answer. Will my Pre-natal and Post-natal Care right hon. Friend accept that the Leeds unit has undergone the greatest scrutiny of any of the units included in the 2. Mr David Amess (Southend West) (Con): What review, and has met all the standards required? Will he steps his Department is taking to ensure consistent and therefore assure patients, families and staff that both he continuous provision of pre-natal and post-natal care. and NHS England have every confidence in the [158867] performance and standards of the Leeds unit? If we are to have informed choices on the future of heart units, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health surely all units must be subject to the same scrutiny. (Dr Daniel Poulter): The Government are committed to improving continuity of care during pregnancy and the Mr Hunt: First, I want to congratulate my hon. post-natal period. To give women the personalised care Friend on the sustained campaigning that he has done that they deserve, we have increased the number of for that children’s heart unit, and on the very responsible midwives by nearly 1,400 and the number of health way that he has conducted himself in what has been an visitors by more than 1,000 since May 2010. In addition, extremely difficult campaign for the people of Leeds. I there are a record 5,000 midwives in training. have full confidence in children’s heart surgery at Leeds; I know that the Leeds unit does an excellent job. He will Mr Amess: Will my hon. Friend visit Southend university understand, as I do, that when there are safety concerns, hospital, and tell residents at first hand what steps the they have to be investigated, but I am delighted that Government are taking to ensure that post-natal care those issues have been resolved, and that surgery is meets clinical guidance and the Government’s aspirations continuing. to ensure that the maternity experience is continuous, with patients having one dedicated midwife? John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): The Dr Poulter: I would be delighted to visit my hon. hon. Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew) is right that Friend’s constituency. He has been a tremendous advocate the Leeds unit has been subject to greater scrutiny than for maternity services, both nationally and in his any other unit, and the decisions in its case have been constituency, in his time in the House. As I am sure that more seriously flawed than in the case of any other unit. he has realised, if we want a genuinely personalised What guarantee can the Secretary of State give those maternity service, we need to ask women about their families across Yorkshire who depend on this major, experiences of care. That is why the Government are life-changing surgery that the unit will not simply be introducing a friends and family test in maternity from removed from our county and put beyond their reach, October this year. taking away this vital service for them and their families?

Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): The Mr Hunt: The right hon. Gentleman will understand Minister knows full well that post-natal depression is that I cannot prejudge the decision that I will take on the thing that is most likely to kill a healthy young reflection, having read the Independent Reconfiguration woman, and we know how to deal with it, but in many Panel report, so this morning I cannot give him an areas across the country we are cutting the number of answer as to what will happen. However, I can reassure visits from midwives after births, and the support given. families in Yorkshire, and throughout the country, that We know how to tackle post-natal depression. Why where there are safety concerns, we will take them very should it be that in some parts of the country the seriously indeed and investigate them promptly, and support is wonderful, and in others, it is non-existent? where there are difficult reconfiguration debates to be had, we will not duck them, but in all cases, the interests Dr Poulter: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to of patients—patient safety and reducing mortality—must highlight that there has, in the past, sometimes been be our primary concern. unacceptable variation in the quality of post-natal care. That is why we are increasing the number of midwives and 18. [158883] Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): have done so by nearly 1,400, and why we are putting There seems to have been little reliable evidence for the money and effort into increasing the number of health suspension of services at Leeds, but rather for the safe visitors, who play a vital role in supporting mums, and sustainable review itself. Will the Secretary of State babies and families in securing that important bond, now do what NHS England has so far refused to do to and in supporting mums so that they get the right help the Independent Reconfiguration Panel, despite the when they suffer from post-natal depression. recommendation of the health and overview scrutiny committee in Yorkshire, and finally publish all the Children’s Heart Surgery (Yorkshire and the Humber) official e-mails between the Joint Committee of Primary Care Trusts and the National Specialised Commissioning 3. Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): What plans he has Team between 2008 and 2013, so that he can finally for the future of children’s heart surgery provision in learn the truth about the review and what has gone so Yorkshire and the Humber. [158868] wrong with it? 143 Oral Answers11 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 144

Mr Hunt: I know that NHS England is totally committed Anna Soubry: Unfortunately, I do not have enough to transparency and when I make my final decision on time to advance all the arguments, but I am more than the safe and sustainable review, we will publish a lot of happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss this with him information. But all the things that he refers to are at length and show him a packet of the said cigarettes subject to normal freedom of information processes, from Australia, and he may see the light. and I am sure that he will pursue those. Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): Does the Minister Tobacco Packaging agree that there is nothing plain about plain packaging? It just shows the reality of gangrene of the foot with graphic images, which is not very attractive to hand 4. Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): What his policy round at a party. is on the introduction of standardised tobacco packaging; and if he will make a statement. [158869] Anna Soubry: Yes.

9. Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op): When Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) the Government plan to respond to their consultation (Lab): The Minister is aware that smoking is the biggest on standardised packaging of tobacco products. single cause of health inequality, and she will know that [158874] the Labour Government took difficult, complicated and controversial decisions that were successful in driving The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health down smoking from 27% to 20%, saving thousands of (Anna Soubry): The Government have yet to make a lives. Why are this Government stalling? When will they decision. We are still considering the lengthy consultation, announce a decision? Or is it that the business interests and in due course we will publish a report on that. of Lynton Crosby matter more to these Ministers than the health of the nation? Paul Flynn: We heard on the radio this morning about the poor state of the country on levels of cancer. The Anna Soubry: I am sure that Mr Crosby would be Government have an opportunity to reduce those levels grateful for that bigging-up. I can assure the hon. Lady by the Bill and by the minimum price for alcohol, but that, as she knows, if standardised packaging was as when it comes to the Queen’s Speech, have they again simple as she tries to suggest, no doubt the last Government been persuaded by the blandishments of lobbyists, and would have introduced it in some way. I am proud of instead of putting the health of the nation first, have the fact that we have made sure that the point of sale put the needs of big business first? legislation has been achieved. As she knows and as I have said before, this is a difficult and complex issue. It Anna Soubry: I certainly do not agree with the latter requires a good and healthy debate. Let us bring on that part of that. Just because something was not in the debate. Perhaps the Opposition would like to use one of Queen’s Speech does not preclude us from introducing their Opposition days to bring it forward. I will be more legislation should we take that decision. The hon. than happy to take part. Gentleman makes some important points when he talks about the link between mortality and choices about NHS Hospitals (Bed Occupancy) how much alcohol one drinks or whether one chooses to smoke, but we await a decision from the Government. 5. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): What estimate he has made of the optimal level of bed Gavin Shuker: Many of my constituents, including occupancy in NHS hospitals. [158870] Cancer Research UK ambassador, Elizabeth Bailey, are asking a simple question: why is it taking the Government The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health so long to respond to this consultation? Is not the truth (Dr Daniel Poulter): Average annual bed occupancy that they are caught up in interdepartmental squabbles rates for all NHS beds open overnight have remained while public health suffers? stable between 84% and 87% since 2000. The Government do not set optimal bed occupancy rates for the NHS. Anna Soubry: No, it certainly is not, and I have given NHS hospitals need to manage their beds effectively in my views. The hon. Gentleman will know that like order to cope with peaks in both routine and emergency many decisions on public health, these are complicated clinical demand. matters. Most importantly, it is vital that we take the public with us. I have said before that I welcome a Luciana Berger: I listened carefully to what the Minister debate, and perhaps he and the hon. Member for Newport said, but the Royal College of Physicians has warned West (Paul Flynn) might come to you, Mr Speaker, and that this winter there were more black alerts—when a ask for a debate in this Chamber or in Westminster hospital has no beds available—than there were over Hall. Let us have the debate, because taking the public the previous 10 years combined. What urgent action are with us is always important when we make these sorts the Government taking to reduce bed occupancy levels of difficult and controversial decisions. and prevent next winter being even worse?

Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): Does the Minister Dr Poulter: We had this debate last week. The long-term agree that some of the proposed standardised packaging pressures on the NHS, as we know, are the result of an is more colourful than the existing packaging, and given aging population, with increasing numbers of older that we have a display ban on cigarettes, what on earth people arriving in A and E with complex needs, so the is the point of having standard packaging for something challenge is to ensure that they are better treated in the that cannot be displayed? community. That is why my hon. Friend the Minister of 145 Oral Answers11 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 146

State launched the integrated care pilots last month. We Dr Poulter: The hon. Gentleman is right to point out are also seeing more patients treated as day cases than that historically there have been challenges with intensive ever before. About 80% of elective admissions are now care beds. We are now seeing increases in some areas of treated as day cases, which shows a massive improvement intensive care, particularly paediatric intensive care and in the speed and quality of care in the NHS. paediatric cots, to ensure that there is greater support in that service, but he is absolutely right that we need a Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Kettering greater emphasis on specialist centres focused on intensive general hospital is located in an area that has one of the care. That is something that the NHS Commissioning fastest growing populations in the country and above- Board, NHS England, is focused on delivering. We need average growth in the number of patients aged 80 or to ensure that across each region of the country there is over. What more can be done to send the correct signals more focused care and more specialist intensive care. to local authorities that they need to act quicker to get elderly patients out of hospital once they have been Cancer Waiting Times treated so that they can have the care they need in the community, thus freeing up hospital beds? 6. Stephen McPartland (Stevenage) (Con): What progress he has made on improving cancer waiting Dr Poulter: My hon. Friend is absolutely right that times and diagnosis. [158871] local authorities have a key role to play in integrated care. That is why in April this year the Government set The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health up local health and wellbeing boards, which will bring (Anna Soubry): Cancer waiting time standards set out a about greater integration of care between the NHS, maximum two-month wait from urgent GP referral for housing providers and social care locally. That will suspected cancer, through to diagnosis, to the first hopefully ensure that across the country we have a definitive treatment. Quarterly performance in the past much greater focus on local health care needs and, in 12 months has consistently exceeded the performance particular, on better supporting older people and people measure of 85%; indeed, the current data show that with long-term disabilities at home and keeping them 86.3% of patients were treated within this time frame. out of hospital.

Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab): A moment ago the Stephen McPartland: I am a firm believer in bringing Minister mentioned more elderly people coming in through cancer care closer to people’s homes. My constituents A and E, and I want to present the House with new, have to travel thousands of miles during the course of deeply troubling evidence of that. Nobody wants to think their radiotherapy treatments. Will the Minister support of a very frail elderly person with no other support at my campaign for a satellite radiotherapy unit to be home having to come to A and E by ambulance, but based at Lister hospital in Stevenage? that is what increasing numbers of elderly people are having to do. Buried in the general A and E figures is an Anna Soubry: I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s campaign, appalling increase in people aged over 90 coming to A which he has been running for some time, and to all the and E by blue-light ambulance, which is up by 66%, great work that he does for Lister hospital. I am slightly equivalent to more than 100,000 of the most vulnerable worried that if I give him any support it might be the people in our society. That is an appalling failure and a kiss of death for his campaign, but I wish him all the sign of something seriously wrong in the way we care for very best and all power to his elbow. older people, and it is set to get worse as home care is cut further this year. Will he investigate that increase Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): urgently and act now to prevent the collapse of social care? One group of people greatly affected by a cancer diagnosis are the carers who suddenly find themselves to be carers Dr Poulter: The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely of people with cancer. Yesterday I met some people right—there is almost an outbreak of consensus across who are carers of people with cancer, and they told me the Dispatch Boxes on this issue. We both recognise, that they did not get the information, advice and support rightly, that there is a long-term challenge in providing that they needed to tackle that important caring role. more integrated, joined-up care to better look after Does the Minister agree that it is about time that we older people. However, it is ironic that he should raise recognised those carers and started to give them the that concern, because a previous Minister in the other advice and support that they need because they suffer place, the noble Lord Warner, has made the case very financial loss, hardship, loss of career and impacts on clearly that the previous Government failed to invest their own health? adequately in elderly care throughout their time in office. That is why this Government—I hope that we can count Anna Soubry: I very much do agree. That is why I am on the right hon. Gentleman’s support for this—are so pleased that the Care Bill that is making its way investing in health and social care, more integrated services through both Houses has special provision for people at a local level through health and wellbeing boards and— who are caring for others with cancer in the way that the hon. Lady describes. Mr Speaker: Order. The answers are too long. They need to get shorter, because we have a lot to get through. Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): Last It is very simple and very clear. week Monitor, the regulator for foundation trust hospitals, said that cancer patients are now waiting longer for John Pugh (Southport) (LD): Given that we have the treatment and diagnosis because of the A and E crisis in lowest ratio of intensive care beds in the EU, what are hospitals. Official NHS figures published that same day the Government doing to monitor possible risks in show that the number of patients waiting over three future? months for cancer, heart disease and other life-saving 147 Oral Answers11 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 148 tests has more than doubled compared with only last Mr Stephen Dorrell (Charnwood) (Con): Does my year. Is it not obviously the case that this Health Secretary’s right hon. Friend agree that the introduction of health failure to cut the spin and get a grip on the A and E and wellbeing boards represents a very welcome crisis is now seriously damaging patient care? introduction of democratic accountability into the management of the health and care system? Does he Anna Soubry: That was a very interesting speech but I further agree that the acid test of health and wellbeing am afraid that I do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s boards will be their ability to increase the pace of analysis at all. All cancer waiting time standards are integration between health and care so that the service being met, with over 28,000 patients being treated for we deliver is more closely matched to the needs of cancer following a GP making an urgent referral for a patients? suspected cancer. We have already heard about the action that this Government are taking to address the Mr Hunt: As is so often the case, my right hon. situation in accident and emergency; it was very well Friend speaks extremely wisely on this issue. Integrated explained in last week’s debate services will be the big thing that transforms the service we offer vulnerable older people, which the right hon. NHS Accountability Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) mentioned earlier. Health and wellbeing boards will have an extremely important role to play in bringing together local authorities 7. Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): What and clinical commissioning groups so that we have joint steps he is taking to increase accountability in the commissioning of services for those very vulnerable NHS. [158872] people.

The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt): Dame Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): We have transformed accountability in the health system On accountability, whenever I have asked the Secretary by setting up Healthwatch and introducing stronger of State how lives might be saved by downgrading local democratic accountability through health and Lewisham’s A and E he has cited the medical advice of wellbeing boards. Sir Bruce Keogh. My colleagues and I have repeatedly sought meetings with Sir Bruce and it is unprecedented Gavin Barwell: Croydon PCT’s accounts for 2010-11 in my experience to not receive a response to such a showed a £5.5 million surplus; it subsequently turned request. Is the Secretary of State satisfied with that? Is out to be a £23 million deficit. The former chief executive Sir Bruce free to meet Lewisham MPs, or has the and two former finance officers have adamantly refused Secretary of State told him not to? to give evidence to a scrutiny committee set up by councils in south-west London. Does the Secretary of Mr Hunt: Sir Bruce is free to meet anyone he likes. State agree that that is unacceptable and that NHS Actually, he had a meeting with MPs last month, which managers must be held to account, and given that two the right hon. Lady could have attended if she had of these individuals still work in the NHS, does he have wanted to do so, and there was extensive engagement the power to compel them to give evidence? with local south-east London MPs before the decision on Lewisham hospital was made. Mr Hunt: Accountability is extremely important. Local authorities can require members or employees of local Accident and Emergency Departments health service commissioners to appear and answer (Ministerial Visits) questions, and NHS organisations and individuals should co-operate with that. I am extremely concerned by what 8. Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East my hon. Friend says. He knows that I have received a Cleveland) (Lab): How many accident and emergency report on this from the joint overview and scrutiny departments he visited in an official capacity in winter committees for six south-west London boroughs, and I 2012-13. [158873] will be responding shortly. The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt): Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): Does the I regularly visit a range of services across the NHS. Secretary of State agree that accountability would be Since taking up post in September 2012, I have visited improved if the private providers who are increasingly 28 NHS front-line services, including seven A and E providing NHS services were subject to the Freedom of departments. Information Act 2000? Will he ensure that as more and more services become privatised under this Government, Tom Blenkinsop: Will the Secretary of State confirm those people are subject to the same freedom of information that a freedom of information request to the Department provisions as those in the NHS, because otherwise no of Health revealed that he did not visit an A and E unit committee can hold them to account? until April 2013, a full six months after his appointment and despite a clear A and E crisis over the winter-spring Mr Hunt: Perhaps I could gently remind the hon. period under his supervision? Lady that the previous Labour Government did not do this, despite making huge efforts to get more private Mr Hunt: As ever, the Labour party is being selective sector involvement in the NHS. Providers must operate in its use of information. As I have said, I visited seven on a level playing field, and so the inspection regime A and E departments, including over the Easter period that we are setting up, with a new chief inspector of when we had some severe A and E pressures that I hospitals, will apply equally to the private sector and wanted to investigate for myself. Let me tell the hon. the public sector. Gentleman about another thing that this Government 149 Oral Answers11 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 150 have done that his Government never did: it is not just NHS Resource Allocation Ministers who are going out on to the front line; we have asked all our civil servants to go on to the front 10. Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): Whether he has line for up to four weeks. I am extremely proud that my any plans to review his policy on resource allocation in Department will be the first to connect with the front the NHS. [158875] line in that way, and am even prouder of the response from my own civil servants, who embraced the scheme The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt): with great enthusiasm. Allocations to the NHS are the responsibility of NHS England. However, I have been advised that it will rely Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): Could we have some on the advice of the Advisory Committee on Resource accountability for the strategic planning of A and E Allocation for changes to the allocations formula. services across London? Nine of them face closure and 28 ambulances were redirected to Lewisham, which the Andrew George: While many wealthy areas are Secretary of State intends to downgrade. Without a overfunded, Cornwall is more underfunded than anywhere strategic approach, how can patients be confident that else in the country. In the past six years, it has received their best interests are being served? in excess of £200 million less than the Government say it should receive. It also receives the lowest tariff in the country for acute care. Is the Secretary of State prepared Mr Hunt: We do have a strategic approach, but to meet me and other representatives from Cornwall to we also have some very important safeguards that any address the serious issues that that is causing in front-line big change in approach has to go through before it is care? implemented. That is why I asked for a report from the Independent Reconfiguration Panel on the plans for Mr Hunt: My hon. Friend has had meetings with my north-west London, and I will consider that report very ministerial colleagues on that issue and knows that such carefully before I make any decision. decisions are made at arm’s length from Ministers by NHS England. The allocation for NHS Kernow is £1,235 per Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD): When head and the average baseline clinical commissioning considering issues relating to A and E closures, particularly group allocation is £1,184 per head. However, I recognise the proposed closure of the A and E department at that there are issues with rurality and the age profile of St Helier hospital, which serves my constituents, will the population. That is why a fundamental review is the Secretary of State ensure that those who propose taking place of the approach that ACRA takes. such plans make sure that there is also a costed plan for developing out-of-hospital care, which is an essential Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): In response prerequisite for any changes to acute services? to a parliamentary question that I tabled, the Under- Secretary of State for Health, the hon. Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter), stated Mr Hunt: I agree with my right hon. Friend on this that circa £15 million in underspend was handed back issue. It is extremely important that all these plans take to Public Health England by the now dissolved primary a holistic view both locally and nationally. That is why, care trusts on Merseyside. Given that Liverpool has in looking at how to resolve the A and E issues we have been identified as having some of the greatest health faced and the severe pressures last winter, we are looking inequalities, will the Secretary of State guarantee that not just at what happens inside A and E departments, every penny of that £15 million will be spent in Merseyside but at primary care alternatives and the integration of alone? social care services, which are all equally important. Mr Hunt: What I can guarantee is that there will be a Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): Perhaps it took the real-terms increase in the public health budget for all Secretary of State so long to visit an A and E unit local authorities under a two-year settlement, which because he could not get in. In the midst of England’s they did not have before. I hope that the information A and E services experiencing their worst waiting times that was published this morning, which shows how for a decade, the Secretary of State criticised hospitals cities that are comparable to Liverpool are managing to for coasting. Does he regret waiting for six months get better health outcomes, will help the local authority before first visiting an A and E unit and finding out for in Liverpool to improve its results. himself what damage his policies were doing to the front line of the NHS? Hospital consultants, A and E Mental and Physical Health consultants and patients look forward with interest to hearing his answer. 11. Mike Thornton (Eastleigh) (LD): What progress he has made in delivering parity of esteem between Mr Hunt: We will take no lessons on being connected mental and physical health. [158876] with the front line from the party that missed 50 warning signs about what was happening at Mid Staffs. The hon. The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman Gentleman cannot make the narrow point about how Lamb): One of NHS England’s objectives is to ensure many A and Es I visited during a particular period that mental health and physical health are given equal without addressing the broad point about how connected priority.By March 2015, we expect the NHS to demonstrate Ministers in his party were when they were in power. measurable progress towards achieving parity of esteem, They rejected 81 requests for a public inquiry because so that everyone who needs them has timely access to they did not know what was happening at Mid Staffs. evidence-based services. 151 Oral Answers11 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 152

Mike Thornton: Freedom of information figures that Norman Lamb: I thank my hon. Friend for that were obtained by Mind from Southern Health NHS question and I applaud the CCG for the priorities it has Foundation Trust reveal that in my constituency, the set. Reducing waiting times for access to psychological number of people with mental issues who are admitted therapies is a really good move, and the virtual ward has to hospital, rather than treated by specialist crisis resolution the potential to keep people out of hospital, maintaining and home treatment services, is higher than average. their health better and reducing cost to the NHS. What steps is the Department taking to ensure that everyone has access to mental health crisis care services Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ that provide alternatives to hospital admission? Co-op): Hackney CCG was one of the first to be up and running in shadow form. It is now operational but it is Norman Lamb: I thank my hon. Friend for that still persisting with a tendering approach to out-of-hours question. I applaud the work that Mind is doing to services. Will the Secretary of State write to the CCG to demonstrate the stark differences between the treatment explain what has been said in this House—that tendering of people with mental health problems who are in crisis is not a requirement—and make it absolutely clear and that of people with physical health problems. Its where the law lies? work demonstrates that without proper liaison services, people end up in hospital, at increased cost to the NHS. Norman Lamb: The point I have tried to make all I have asked all the relevant bodies to get together to along is that this is about the judgment of the clinical agree a plan to ensure that there is urgent crisis care for commissioning groups, and nothing is imposed by the people with mental health problems, like that experienced Government in what is required of them. European by people with physical health problems. procurement rules existed under the Labour Government and this Government, but it is up to CCGs, working within the health and wellbeing board arrangements, to Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): I am commission as they see fit for the benefits of their most concerned that as well as the problems at the crisis population. level, there is not enough support for people with low-level mental health issues so that they do not get into crisis. Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): Despite Witham town’s Although I welcome what the Minister has said about growing population, our GP ratio remains above the improvements by 2015, does he not agree that we need national and regional average. Does the Minister agree stronger and more defined targets to get the progress that the local commissioning model, and the CCG in that is needed towards the mental health services that particular, would urge GPs to explore ways to expand are required across the country? Witham’s health care provision to meet the needs of the growing local population? Norman Lamb: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question. I agree that the more we invest in preventive Norman Lamb: I know that my hon. Friend has care, the more we will save problems down the track and campaigned vigorously and consistently on this issue stop people’s health deteriorating. Areas that have managed and the needs of her local community, and I agree that to integrate mental health with primary care have seen GPs ought to explore all ways they can of improving good results, with better treatment, quicker access to health care for her community. treatment and less deterioration of health. That is the approach that we need to take. Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): May I declare my interest, and ask the Minister whether he is satisfied NHS Services (Local Commissioning) with the progress being made by CCGs in the provision of diabetes prevention work?

12. Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): What Norman Lamb: I understand that all clinical progress his Department has made on implementing commissioning groups have a lead on diabetes care, but local commissioning of NHS services. [158877] we can do an awful lot more to improve prevention work. We know that if we guide people in self-care, we The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman can achieve massive improvements in their own health Lamb): By April 2013, 211 clinical commissioning groups and well-being, and reduce the number of crises that were authorised to commission the majority of NHS occur. I am happy to work with the right hon. Gentleman services for their local populations. CCGs are now to ensure we do everything we can to improve diabetes empowered to design and deliver services based on the care. needs and choices of their patients, and NHS England will support CCGs to deliver high-quality outcomes. East Midlands Ambulance Service

Mr Raab: I thank the Minister for that answer. My 13. Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): What constituency struggled under a particularly inefficient recent representations he has received expressing concern primary care trust. It is, of course, early days, as the about the service provided by the East Midlands Ambulance Minister has explained, but Surrey Downs CCG is Service. [158878] already saving costs in bureaucracy so as to invest strategically in cutting counselling waiting lists, increasing The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health funding for children with multiple disabilities, and setting (Dr Daniel Poulter): Over the past year we have received up virtual wards run by a matron to supervise care in more than 40 letters from MPs in the east midlands, the community. Will the Minister join me in welcoming including my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry those important GP-led improvements in local care? (Chris Heaton-Harris), local authorities and members 153 Oral Answers11 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 154 of the public, about the service provided by the East The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health Midlands Ambulance Service NHS Trust and its being (Anna Soubry): We will shortly be seeking cross-Government the best programme. My hon. Friend will also be aware clearance to publish the UK strategy, which addresses that there was an Adjournment on the matter earlier the challenges raised in the chief medical officer’s annual this year. report and sets out the priority areas for action, such as slowing down the spread of resistance, maintaining the Chris Heaton-Harris: The Minister will recall that I efficacy of antimicrobials and supporting the development have raised a number of constituency cases with his of new antimicrobials. Department and the Care Quality Commission about the standard of services provided by EMAS to my Zac Goldsmith: In January, the chief medical officer constituents, and how it treats its staff. Will he assure warned that the threat from antibiotic-resistant infections me that the Department will continue to monitor EMAS’s was so serious that it should be added to the Government’s performance in the coming months? national register of civil emergencies, the national risk register, alongside deadly flu outbreaks or catastrophic Dr Poulter: My hon. Friend can be reassured that the terrorist attacks. My hon. Friend is preparing a new trust development authority and the local chief cross-Government strategy on antibiotics. Given the commissioner for Erewash CCGs are closely monitoring growing evidence linking the routine use of antibiotics the situation. Today, the Marsh review into the east of on intensive farms with antibiotic-resistant infections in England ambulance service has been published, and humans, can she confirm that the strategy will tackle lessons from that review about how management processes that reckless practice, regardless of pressure from industry? can improve front-line care for patients can be learned and applied across other ambulance services. Anna Soubry: I could give my hon. Friend a long answer, but in short, the matter will be raised at the next Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): My constituency G8 meeting. Further to that, as a result of his excellent is also served by EMAS and it is evident that my debate earlier this year, I undertook to write, and have constituents have cause for concern. Coupled with done so, to my hon. Friend the Minister of State, uncertainty about the future of the Leeds children’s Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. heart unit and higher than average mortality rates in He has replied that the Government recognise that we local hospitals, the situation is causing considerable should look at the guidance issued to farmers. I am concern. Will the Minister agree to meet me and more than happy to share the Minister’s letter with my neighbouring MPs to discuss those problems? hon. Friend.

Dr Poulter: I would be delighted to do so. St Helier Hospital National Cancer Drugs Fund 16. Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab): 14. Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): What What the status is of the capital programme for the recent assessment he has made of the national cancer refurbishment of St Helier Hospital. [158881] drugs fund list. [158879] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman (Anna Soubry): I am sorry, Mr Speaker, I am all over the Lamb): In April 2013, NHS England published a national place and do not have now the answer to give the hon. list of drugs available from the fund. The list was Lady. I believe the programme was signed off in 2010— updated recently following a meeting of the national [Interruption.] In fact, I am right—[Laughter.] Well— cancer drugs fund clinical panel. Clinicians can apply to [Interruption.] Now, now; that is very naughty from the the fund for the inclusion of a drug within the approved right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham). As you list. get older, Mr Speaker, you sometimes start to forget things—[Laughter.] Not you, Mr Speaker, of course; Pauline Latham: The cancer drugs fund is due to you would never do such a thing, and in any event you come to an end in less than a year. Given that more than are much younger than I am. 28,000 patients have received treatment since the CDF The Government re-approved the business case for was introduced, what discussions has the Minister had the redevelopment of St Helier hospital in May 2010—I with NHS England on continuing funding for it after was right—as part of the review the previous Government’s the end of the current arrangements? spending commitments. As the hon. Lady knows, because of the various configurations and proposed configurations, Norman Lamb: I thank my hon. Friend for her question; no final decision has been made yet. We need to ensure she has campaigned vigorously to ensure that as many that all the plans come to some sort of fruition. people as possible get access to the drugs they need. The fund has been a great success. More than 30,000 have I think now benefited from it. We want to do all we can to Siobhain McDonagh: At my age, I share with the ensure that the good lessons we have learned from it Minister a problem with memory loss, but I do not continue. forget the years when we were trying to get the £219 million redevelopment of St Helier hospital agreed, or that the Antimicrobial Resistance Strategy proposal was supported by the Chancellor in his first Budget. The money is now being used as a slush fund by 15. Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): What Better Services Better Value, but its idea is to increase progress has been made on implementation of the UK the sizes of A and E and maternity units of all the five-year antimicrobial resistance strategy. [158880] hospitals around while closing those at St Helier. Does the 155 Oral Answers11 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 156

Minister agree that that was not the intention of the College of Emergency Medicine, the Royal College of money, and that any future development plans must go Physicians, the NHS Alliance, the Family Doctor back to the Department of Health for agreement? Association and even the head of the Royal College of General Practitioners. Anna Soubry: I pay tribute to the hon. Lady, who campaigns hard for her hospital, and quite rightly so. I T2. [158892] Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old have met my right hon. Friends the Members for Sutton Southwark) (LD): In my borough of Southwark we have and Cheam (Paul Burstow) and for Carshalton and higher than average smoking rates, and the Cabinet Wallington (Tom Brake) and am more than happy to member responsible for health has said that hundreds meet her to discuss all the important matters she raises. of people are dying early because they smoke. Can Ministers help me to persuade our Labour council that Topical Questions it is inconsistent to say “Don’t smoke” on the one hand and invest £2.6 million of pension funds in British T1. [158891] Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): If American Tobacco on the other? he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Anna Soubry): That is a good point, but I have to say The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt): that I am not convinced that it is just a Labour-run There have been two important developments since the council that might have chosen to invest their staff previous Health questions. First, in response to pressure pensions in this way; I strongly suspect that all political on A and E departments, my Department, together parties are guilty of this. While this is, of course, a with NHS England, has started work on a vulnerable matter for local authorities, it is also the sort of great older people’s plan that will act quickly to address the campaigning work that MPs can do with their local underlying causes of the issues, including services that councillors. It is even more important that they do that, are not integrated, poor IT systems, confused emergency given that they now have this great responsibility for care offered to the public and poor primary care alternatives. public health. Secondly, following the tragedy at Mid Staffs, I am delighted to announced that Professor Sir Mike Richards T3. [158893] Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) has been appointed as England’s first ever chief inspector (Lab): I welcome the leading role that the Department of hospitals. He is an inspirational leader who has is taking in the formulation of a national strategy personally championed huge improvements in cancer for TB. Its importance was reinforced by a recent survival rates. He will lead the vital work of driving up all-party group report on resistant forms of the disease. standards of safety and care throughout NHS hospitals. One of the key points in the report was the importance of joint working in the development of the strategy, Chris Heaton-Harris: I thank the Secretary of State and that it should be public health-led. Does the for that statement. Will he give the House an assurance Minister agree that NHS England also has a crucial that he will look at GP contracts, with a view to role to play in the development of the strategy? Will she amending them to ensure that better care is given to ensure that it works closely with Public Health England older patients? to develop it?

Mr Hunt: My hon. Friend makes an important point. Anna Soubry: The short answer is yes. I pay tribute to Talk to any A and E department in the country, and the hon. Gentleman for the work of his APPG. We had they will say that poor alternatives in the primary care a good meeting in December and I am looking forward sector are one of the things that are driving the pressures to our follow-up meeting tomorrow when we will discuss on them. It is important that we look at the structures this matter further. put in place by the 2004 GP contract to see whether they are the right way to provide the care we need to T7. [158897] Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con): Now that give to older people. public health responsibilities have, as has been discussed, moved to local authorities and Public Health England, Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab): Last week, the can the Government confirm that raising awareness of Select Committee on Health took expert evidence on the signs and symptoms of cancer and early diagnosis, the increased pressures in emergency departments and which is of course so important, will be key priorities the causes of the worst A and E crisis in a decade. On for those bodies? Will the Minister tell the House how Wednesday, the Chair of the Committee told this House the Government will assess progress? that the 2004 GP contract “is not why those pressures exist.”—[Official Report, 5 June 2013; Anna Soubry: Again, that is a very good point. I Vol. 563, c. 1605.] completely agree with my hon. Friend and pay tribute Will the Secretary of State tell us whether the right hon. to the work of his all-party group on breast cancer. Member for Charnwood (Mr Dorrell) is wrong? Screening is important. This is also a good opportunity to pay tribute to the Secretary of State’s announcement Mr Hunt: I advise the hon. Lady to listen more today of the publication on the website of such outcomes, carefully to what the Chair of the Select Committee which will not only drive huge improvement in public said. He actually said that he agreed with much of what health, but, most importantly, ensure that we reduce I said on the GP contract. While the Opposition are health inequalities. The previous Government failed to defending the status quo of the 2004 contract, independent do that; this Government are determined that we will support for reforming primary care is coming from the improve them. 157 Oral Answers11 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 158

T4. [158894] Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op): T9. [158899] Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): For the An enormous number of people—largely women— last decade, in the face of constant threats of closure to involved in on-street prostitution are caught in a cycle Heatherwood and Wexham Park, I have campaigned of drug and alcohol abuse, and are working to feed alongside local councillors, activists and residents to their habit, but at the same time, beyond managing try to get the right balance of services across my drug dependency, many drug and alcohol services do constituency. The people I work with are very not offer any practical pathways out of prostitution or reasonable, as is the Secretary of State, so will he meet even ask whether the client wishes to exit prostitution. me and a small delegation from Windsor to discuss Will Ministers look into this issue, consider issuing their options? guidance and write to me? Mr Hunt: It would be my great pleasure to do so. Anna Soubry: Absolutely yes on all those very important points. The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely important point to which I absolutely subscribe. I have regular T6. [158896] Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): meetings on this matter, and I hope that our sexual Three Health Ministers have indicated their support, health strategy addressed exactly those points, but I am and one even voted for it, so will the Secretary of State more than happy not only to write, but to meet him to either introduce his own legislation or back new clause discuss the matter further. If I might say, I think that all 17 to the Children and Families Bill to ban smoking in Members, whatever the party political divide, could do cars with children present? far more both here and locally to reduce the number of women who find themselves working on the streets as prostitutes. I have long taken the view that these are Anna Soubry: Well, it is a very good point, and the some of the most vulnerable people in our society, and hon. Gentleman knows my own feelings. [Laughter.] without exception I have never met a prostitute—I used No; it is important that we always get the balance right to represent many of them—who has not herself been between good public health measures and not getting abused, usually as a child. They are vulnerable people the accusation from both sides of being a nanny state. and we should recognise them for that. [Interruption.] No, no; it is all right his getting agitated, but he knows my view, and I am happy to give him any assistance I can—my door is always open. T8. [158898] Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): More than 5,000 schools across the UK now serve good-quality, sustainable meals with the Food for Life Charlotte Leslie (Bristol North West) (Con): Does catering mark, but only three hospitals have achieved the Secretary of State agree that any criminal investigation the same. It is often said that hospitals cannot do so into the 200 to 300 deaths at Mid Staffs should extend because of the cost implications, but the three that have not only to front-line staff, who risk getting scapegoated, done so not only have incurred no extra costs, but, but to all managerial levels, Department of Health in the case of Nottingham hospital, have actually saved officials and the heart of Government, so that we get significant amounts. May I urge my hon. Friend answers about who knew what and when, and what actively to encourage take-up of the Food for Life action they took or—more importantly—did not take catering mark as a model of best practice? that could have prevented this tragic scandal?

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health Mr Jeremy Hunt: I congratulate my hon. Friend on (Dr Daniel Poulter): We will certainly look into the issue her determined campaigning on this issue. She will that my hon. Friend raises, but he will be aware that agree that we must allow the law to follow its course. there are campaigns throughout the NHS focused on The police are looking at the five reports on hospital supporting local food producers, which is important in safety that were undertaken, the inquests and the lists of many constituencies, particularly rural ones, and developing patients who appear to have been treated badly, and best practice and encouraging nutrition. Chefs such as they are talking to the relatives of those patients. We James Martin have been involved in helping to drive up must allow them to do their work, but no one is above standards of care, particularly in Yorkshire and other the law, and particularly in this case it is important that parts of the country. justice be done.

T5. [158895] Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): I listened carefully to the Public Health T10. [158900] Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South Minister’s answer just three questions ago, but the and East Cleveland) (Lab): With the Department of Government have disproportionately cut funding to Health having awarded Cleveland fire brigade £198,000 the most deprived local authorities, including Liverpool, and from its social enterprise investment fund, will the these local authorities have today been shown to have Minister confirm, pursuant to concerns raised by the higher mortality rates. How does the Secretary of State Fire Industry Association, that his Department expect to close, rather than widen, health inequalities? undertook an assessment as to the compliance with the European state aid regulations of the state’s funding of community interest companies that compete to take Mr Jeremy Hunt: We actually gave a real-terms increase business away from the private sector? to all areas, including Liverpool, and followed the independent advice. If funding for public health in Liverpool is lower than it should be, that is because the Dr Poulter: I would be very happy to look further last Government set the baseline way lower than it into the issue and to meet the hon. Gentleman to should have been. discuss it. 159 Oral Answers11 JUNE 2013 Oral Answers 160

Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): Does the about cuts in every single debate in the House and it Minister agree that children’s heart surgery units such turns out that those cuts never happened. as the one in Leeds now need certainty so that they can continue to attract the highest calibre of staff? Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): Life expectancy in Liverpool is 10 and a half years less Mr Jeremy Hunt: I agree with my hon. Friend and the than it is in Kensington and Chelsea. Does the Secretary sooner we can make a decision and announce it, the of State think that he has any responsibility to address better. This issue is of huge importance to the people of that? Leeds and I want to do all I can to expedite the process. Mr Hunt: Yes I do, which is why we have published a Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): When a patient is website today that gives much more detail than there ill and visits their GP, they will do as the doctor orders. ever has been before about health inequalities. it is why, One hundred thousand people will die of lung cancer nationally, the Government have been responsible for a this year. When will the Government do as the doctor huge amount of initiatives to boost public health, including orders and bring in plain packaging for tobacco? calorie labelling in restaurants, action on point of sale display tobacco advertising, alcohol unit labelling and a Anna Soubry: I refer my hon. Friend to answers that I range of other things. We will play our part. have given beforehand. I know the great work that he Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): In April, the BBC’s does on lung cancer and I am pleased to see that, yet “Casualty” programme highlighted the vital role that again, we will have a national campaign following the health professionals have in spotting young girls at risk great success of the last one. We can talk further. of being taken abroad or of having female genital mutilation carried out on them in this country. We are Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD): approaching the most difficult time of the year over the This is cervical screening awareness week. What plans long summer holidays, when girls are most at risk. Will does the Minister have further to encourage women Ministers do all they can to draw the attention of health aged 60 to 64 to attend cervical screening, given the professionals to the vital role that they have in these declining levels of screening uptake and the increasing critical next two months? levels of incidence in this age group? Anna Soubry: Absolutely, and I pay tribute to my Anna Soubry: Screening is one of the most important hon. Friend and to other hon. Members on both sides aspects of the work of Public Health England and we of the Chamber for the great work that they have done are keen to make sure that it is addressed both nationally on FGM. I am really proud that the Government have and locally. Great work can be done by local authorities produced the FGM passport, which is available to in making sure that women have this vital screening. many young women. It does—I hope that it will continue to do so—protect women, especially younger women Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Is the who are going abroad for this appalling abuse to be Secretary of State aware of the alcohol treatment centre carried out upon them. We have done great work already in the middle of Cardiff, which treats people who are with health professionals who increasingly realise, first, drunk on Friday and Saturday nights and therefore that they must be aware of it; secondly, that they must takes pressure off A and E, ambulance services and the report it; and thirdly, that they must take action to police? Will he look at this model, as we are in Swansea, prevent this appalling abuse of women, especially young and pilot it elsewhere? women.

Mr Jeremy Hunt: That is definitely worth looking at Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab): I listened to the and is exactly the kind of proposal that we could think answer to Question 7 earlier, but surely the best way to about for NHS England. It could make a very big improve accountability in the NHS would be much difference. greater consumer choice and competition when it comes to GP services, for which there are virtually no comparative George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): Will my right data at the moment. With modern IT, why can patients hon. Friend clarify the position regarding NHS spending, not choose to have their own medical records and then in light of the recent comments from the shadow Health ring round to find a GP who will treat them when they Secretary? My understanding is that spending increased want to and not when their own GP deigns to see them? from £99.7 billion in 2009-10 to £106 billion in 2012-13; an increase of £600 million, or 14,000 nurses or 6,000 Mr Jeremy Hunt: What the hon. Gentleman says has doctors. Does not this show that the shadow Health a lot of merit. We need to have transportable digital Secretary’s reference to cuts is just irresponsible medical records that can be accessed anywhere in the scaremongering? system. That would make better out-of-hours care much more possible than it is at the moment. Mr Hunt: My hon. Friend is right. There has been a Several hon. Members rose— £600 million real- terms increase in spending, something that the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) Mr Speaker: Order. I am sorry; demand always exceeds said was irresponsible. He will have to do a U-turn on supply at Health questions, rather as in the health this, and it will be an embarrassing one. He has talked service, so we must now move on. 161 11 JUNE 2013 GCSEs 162

GCSEs While making GCSE content more rigorous, we must also correct the structural problems with GCSEs that the coalition Government inherited. As today’s report 12.35 pm from the Education Committee confirms, the problems The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove): with English GCSEs generated last summer proved With your permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to beyond any doubt that the current system requires make a statement on the future of examinations. reform. Both the Education Committee report and Ofqual recognise that controlled assessment, which counted There is now a widespread consensus, underpinned for 60% of the English GCSE qualification, undermined by today’s authoritative report from the Select Committee the reliability of the assessment as a whole. I therefore on Education, that we need to reform our examination asked Ofqual to review the regulatory framework for system to restore public confidence. That is why today GCSEs to judge how we might limit course work and we are publishing draft details of new GCSE content in controlled assessment and to reflect on how we could core academic subjects. The independent regulator Ofqual lift a cap on aspiration by reducing the two-tier structure is publishing its own consultation on the regulation of of some GCSEs. I also asked Ofqual to explore how we reformed GCSEs. We are publishing the draft content might reform our grading structure, the better to reflect in English, mathematics, science, history, geography the full range of student ability and reward the very best and modern and ancient languages alongside this statement. performers. We will consult on that content over the next 10 weeks. We expect that these subjects, with the exception of Ofqual’s consultation sets out how reformed GCSEs languages, should be ready for first teaching in September can be more rigorous and stretching while encouraging 2015, with the first exams being taken in the summer of students to develop and demonstrate deep understanding. 2017. Languages and other subjects will follow soon It is proposed that course work and controlled assessment after, with first teaching from September 2016 and the will largely be replaced by linear, externally marked first exams being taken from the summer of 2018. end-of-course exams. It is proposed that the current two-tier system will end, except where it is absolutely The new subject content we are publishing today has essential: in maths and science. In those subjects, Ofqual been drawn up in collaboration with distinguished subject is consulting on how to improve the current arrangements experts, all with expertise and experience in teaching. I to deal with the concerns that we and others have would like to thank them for their dedicated work. In expressed about capping aspiration. Ofqual is also line with our changes to the national curriculum, the consulting on a new grading system that will give fairer new specifications are more challenging, more ambitious recognition to the whole ability range. and more rigorous. That will mean that there should be more extended writing in subjects such as English and Young people in this country deserve an education history. There should be more testing of advanced system that can compete with the best in the world—a problem-solving skills in mathematics and science and system that sets, and achieves, high expectations. Today’s more testing of mathematics in science GCSEs, in order reforms are essential to achieving that goal. By making to improve progression to A-levels. We should have GCSEs more demanding, more fulfilling and more more challenging mechanics problems in physics, a stronger stretching, we can give our young people the broad, focus on evolution and genetics in biology and a greater deep and balanced education that will equip them to focus on foreign language composition, so that pupils win in the global race. I commend this statement to the require deeper language skills. House. This higher level of demand should equip our children to go on to higher education or a good apprenticeship. 12.40 pm We can raise the bar confidently, knowing that we have Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op): the best generation of teachers ever in our schools to I thank the Secretary of State for giving me advance help students to achieve more than ever before. Our sight of the statement and the consultation documents. education reforms—the growth in the number of academies and free schools and the improvements in teacher Here we are again. Last summer, we had “Bring back recruitment and training, as well as sharper accountability CSEs and O-levels”: dropped. Then it was the English from improved league tables and a strengthened Ofsted—are baccalaureate certificate: dropped. Just last week, it was raising standards in state schools. That means that new going to be I-levels, but there is no sign of them today. GCSEs will remain universal qualifications—accessible, The Secretary of State is cutting back on resits for with good teaching, to the same proportion of pupils as students, but he affords himself a fourth attempt at now. GCSE reform. The problem last summer was that he started with qualifications when he should have started The specifications that we are publishing today also with the curriculum. He was putting the cart before the give awarding organisations a clearer indication of our horse—a grade A lesson in bad policy making. expectations in each subject. Under the previous system, specifications were often too vague. This caused suspicion When we were in government, we raised standards and speculation that some exam boards were “harder” across schools. On the performance measure of five A* than others, undermining the credibility of the exam to C grades including English and maths, we went from system as a whole. Including more detail in our requirements 35% in 1997 to 59% in 2010. Let me give the House a for subject content should ensure greater consistency quote: and fairness across subjects and between exam boards. “Schools got better over the course of the last 15 years.” By reducing variability in the system, we hope to ensure Those are not my words but those of the Secretary of that all young people leave school with qualifications State a year ago. The improvements were the result of a that are respected by employers, universities and those laser focus on literacy and numeracy, better teaching in further education. and better schools. 163 GCSEs11 JUNE 2013 GCSEs 164

Parents are worried that, by allowing unqualified my view has always been that we should, wherever teachers into classrooms, this Government are damaging possible, seek to remove any cap on aspiration, but we education standards. They want to know that the changes have listened to the experts, and they conclude in this to the curriculum and qualifications will help to equip their case that tiering in maths and science is appropriate. children for the jobs of the future. Let me set three tests The hon. Gentleman also asked whether I believe, as for the changes. First, will they strengthen rigour and some do, that we should move from not just an alphabetical raise standards, by introducing the rigour of the future that to a numerical skill, but to scaled scores. The consultation rejects a choice between knowledge and skills? We need provides an opportunity for those who believe that that both. Secondly, are the changes driven by the evidence of is appropriate to make their case. Ofqual will make a what actually works, here and elsewhere? Thirdly, will judgment, and I will listen closely to what it says, but I they command consensus and stand the test of time? think the need to change the way in which we award On the curriculum changes, we will study the detail of grades reflects the improvement in teaching, to which today’s proposals. We want to strike the right balance he alluded and which I entirely endorse. between setting out entitlements to high-quality education and freedoms for schools and teachers to innovate. The hon. Gentleman asked about technical and practical What is the Secretary of State’s evaluation of how subjects. As I have confirmed before, technical and academies have used their freedoms, and of the implications practical subjects are our highest priority in the Department of that for the future national curriculum? When will he for Education, which is why our reforms started with bring forward plans for other subjects that are not vocational qualifications and the publication of the covered by today’s announcement? In particular, what Wolf report. I recently wrote to the hon. Gentleman to about the young people who want to study high-quality ask him if he still stood by his endorsement of the Wolf technical and practical subjects? For too long, they have report. I still await a reply, but I know he is a busy man been the forgotten 50%, yet there is no reference to and I shall wait patiently to hear what he has to say. them in today’s statement. The final thing I should say is that the hon. Gentleman We support the reform of controlled assessment, but asks for evidence for the case for change, and all I need we do not support its wholesale abandonment across do is commend to him the superb work done by the almost all subjects. Select Committee in its report today, which points out that it was the introduction of changes by the last “Moving towards linear assessment will reduce the reliability of GCSE. Less coursework means less assessment time which Government that fundamentally destabilised GCSEs. leads inevitably to lower reliability—this is about as cast iron a The hon. Gentleman himself has acknowledged that rule in assessment as there is”. there was grade inflation on Labour’s watch. Let us be Those are not my words; they are the words of Prof clear: yes, there were improvements, thanks to changes Dylan Wiliam, one of the distinguished experts to in our education system and a higher quality of teaching whom the Secretary of State referred in his statement. than ever before, but they were put in doubt by Ministers’ failure to ensure that the gold standard was adequately What body of evidence supports this wholesale switch protected. We are, at last, protecting the standards on on controlled assessment? The Secretary of State has which all our children depend. previously expressed doubts about tiering. I welcome the principles Ofqual has set out today. Has he changed his mind on tiering in maths and science? Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): Instead of all this perpetual messing about with the education On grading, I accept that there is a good case for or examination system, would it not be better and more differentiation at the top end, but I am concerned simpler to return to the arrangements of my distant about consolidation at the other end. Surely it is vital youth, in which in order to matriculate—that magic but that there is challenge and stretch for all students across now disappeared word—pupils had, as the Secretary of the ability range? There is a strong argument for moving State knows very well, to get six credits at school to what Ofqual has described as scaled scoring, giving certificate level, one of which had to be in mathematics students the actual percentage mark subject by subject. and one in a foreign language? If they got those six I know Ofqual feels we are not ready for that yet, but credits, they went on to the higher certificate, and if does the Secretary of State share my aspiration to move they could get two distinctions in higher certificate they towards such a system in the future? automatically got a state scholarship and a guaranteed In conclusion, there is a clear lesson from this past free university education. Everybody understood it, it year: this is no way to conduct system reform. Future worked very well, so why do we not go back to it? change should be informed by the evidence and should properly engage with professionals. If we do that, I think we really can achieve lasting and successful reform. Michael Gove: First, may I say to my right hon. Friend that his youth is not that distant? He is still in the prime of life and the full vigour of all his abilities, and Michael Gove: May I, first, thank the hon. Gentleman the system he has outlined, with credits for a broad for his witty and discursive response? Picking through range of subjects, is very similar to the English baccalaureate the thickets of the comments he made, I think there was measure we have introduced. I did not know that, in a broad welcome for the direction of travel we have set introducing the English baccalaureate, I owed so much out today, and in our efforts to achieve consensus across to my right hon. Friend, but I am happy to say that the the House—which has always been my aim—I am virtues of the education system that existed in his youth grateful for that. have been reinstated. However, impressive as the education May I also thank the hon. Gentleman for his acceptance he enjoyed was, we also need to move with the times, that Ofqual is right to recognise the case for tiering in and we are making a number of changes that better mathematics and science? He asked what my view is: reflect the competitive nature of the 21st century. 165 GCSEs11 JUNE 2013 GCSEs 166

Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and Michael Gove: It is a very fair challenge from the hon. Hillsborough) (Lab): Taken together, the three new Lady, who has devoted a great deal of time in this reports announced today are not as bad as some of us House to reminding us how important it is that we may have feared. May I put it to the Secretary of State, tackle that tale of underachievement. We want to consult however, that employers and post-16 providers want on exactly how the grading system can fairly reflect the young people who have learnt how to learn, have been full range of ability, but we also need to ensure that able to demonstrate that they are able to work in teams students who sit these examinations are supported long and are able to speak English as well as to write it? My before they come to sit a GCSE so that they are able to experience through night school was that the old O-levels, achieve more effectively. We are making a series of with the final exams, were easy for those of us at the interventions, ranging from the introduction of the time who had a good memory. What we surely need to pupil premium and the extension of 15 hours of free be moving to in the continuing consultation is removing pre-school education to the poorest two-years-olds to the worst of the past and the over-emphasis on a the endowment from the Education Endowment modular approach and assessment, while not throwing Foundation fund to support research into how we can the baby out with the bathwater. Will he continue to support the poorest students, which were intended to listen? deal with precisely those children who are the strongest concern of both of us. Michael Gove: I am very grateful to be praised with faint damns by the right hon. Gentleman, and I entirely Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD): I welcome the agree with him; it is important that speaking and listening Secretary of State’s statement that we are committed to sits alongside the composition, written and analytical one qualification, open to all, and to looking at how we skills in English language. That is what we propose to can raise aspiration for all students. If the evidence do, by ensuring that speaking and listening, which is from the consultation shows overwhelming support for inherently more difficult to assess, in what is a benchmark some element of coursework in arts and humanities, as qualification, is assessed alongside the written component well as in the practical subjects, will he retain an open of English. I always look forward to hearing from the mind on it? right hon. Gentleman, who is far, far more often right than wrong. Michael Gove: First, I thank my hon. Friend for all the work he has done throughout this process to ensure that it better reflects the needs of teachers, for whom he Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): speaks so effectively. I have a real concern that coursework May I thank hon. Members from all parts of the House or controlled assessment in benchmark qualifications for their kind words and support since my accident? such as English and mathematics creates problems, but I congratulate the Secretary of State on today’s statement. I listened to Ofqual when it argued that there should be We have the broad outlines of the right policy and, an element of coursework to test bench skills—practical unlike the shadow Secretary of State, I think that a skills—in science, and I remain open to all arguments. I Secretary of State who puts forward ideas, listens to the have a strong disposition, but it is not incapable of response and changes a Government policy as a result is being swayed by strong evidence. making policy in the right way. However, may I put it to the Secretary of State that this has a tight timetable, so Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) will he assure the House, parents and teachers that he (Lab): The Secretary of State will appreciate that I will always ensure that getting it right is more important cannot speak about the detailed implementation of his than sticking to the timetable he has set out? reforms, but does he agree that an emphasis on rigorous qualifications and on obtaining core academic subjects is not, as is sometimes argued, contrary to the interests Michael Gove: I thank my hon. Friend for his generous of working-class children and of black and minority words and may I say how good it is to see him back in ethnic children? On the contrary, precisely if someone is his place in the House? May I also thank him for the the first in their family to stay on past school leaving fantastic work that his Committee has done in its report age, precisely if someone’s family does not social capital on what happened to GCSEs last summer, which is and precisely if someone does not have parents who can published today? I entirely take on board his endorsement put in a word for them in a difficult job market, they of the Department for Education’s Hegelian approach need the assurance of rigorous qualifications and, if at to policy making of thesis, antithesis and then synthesis. all possible, core academic qualifications. We will make sure that the timetable is kept under review. We have already extended the timetable for Michael Gove: I am in love! The hon. Lady is absolutely A-level implementation to take account of precisely the right, and if I had been a member of the Labour party I concerns he has so wisely articulated. would have voted for her to be leader.

Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): The Secretary Mr Speaker: I hope the hon. Lady can recover from of State deserves an A* for his ability to cherry-pick the that. parts of the Education Committee report he agrees with while ignoring those parts he disagrees with. On grading, Mr Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) (Con): we all agree that there are good reasons for more I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his statement differentiation at the top end, but surely it is not the top and, in particular, the reforms to ensure that essay end that is our problem. So what in today’s proposals writing skills are tested in English and history GCSEs, will support and challenge those 50% of children at the and the reforms that ensure a deeper understanding of bottom end? and facility with mathematical processes and formulae 167 GCSEs11 JUNE 2013 GCSEs 168 in the maths and science exams, with less predictable Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): Does the and more demanding questions. Will he assure me that Secretary of State agree that as a majority of people the exam boards, chastened as they are by universal believe that GCSEs have become easier in recent years, criticisms of their failure on the stewardship of grade these substantial reforms are essential to restore the values, will not allow grade inflation to creep into these confidence of employers and further education newly reformed GCSEs? establishments in the GCSE system?

Michael Gove: I thank my hon. Friend and pay tribute Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I to him for the fantastic work he did in office to lay the know he is committed to education—we first met in a foundations for some of the changes we are announcing school in his constituency—and I know he absolutely today. I do think that the exam boards are chastened believes that we need to restore confidence in these and that their current leadership recognise that the examinations. The only people who are let down if there credibility of the qualifications they offer depends on is not public confidence in these examinations are young their policing standards with even greater rigour than people, and he is absolutely right to point out that ever before. confidence has been eroded over time. Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): It is Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): The vital that the GCSE brand is consistent, and is respected, Secretary of State will know that rigour and reliability across the United Kingdom. Will the Secretary of State are quite elusive, that many Governments have tried to therefore tell the House what consultations he has had, combine those two and that it is difficult to do so. May I or will have, with the devolved Administrations, including welcome today’s report and what he said to the House, the Northern Ireland Assembly? Will he ensure that and the fact that this is going to be subject to consultation? agreement and consensus can be reached, so that GCSE However, may I say to him that sometimes he should qualifications will not be compromised in any region of learn the lesson that I learnt during 10 years as the the United Kingdom? Chair of the Select Committee, which is that you have to carry people with you—you have to carry parents, Michael Gove: The hon. Gentleman—my hon. Friend— students, teachers and the broader community with will know that I am absolutely committed to the unity you—and that he sometimes falls into the trap of being of this kingdom and I want to do everything possible to more in favour of disruptive innovation than building a ensure that Ulster remains British. That is why it is consensus for change, which he really will need? important that we say to people in Northern Ireland, and in particular to Northern Ireland’s current Education Michael Gove: Those are very generous words from Minister and the devolved Administration, that the an experienced politician that I shall take to heart. changes that he might make to GCSEs have attracted the attention of the regulator, Ofqual, here. I do want to Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): What are work with him and the many superb teachers in Northern the Government doing to ensure that a putative future Ireland to ensure that there can be as close as possible Labour Government will not falsely inflate the grades an alignment between our education systems. of schoolchildren, as Labour has done before? Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con): Does the Secretary Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes a very good of State agree that our children deserve the best education point. We cannot guarantee that a future Government, that we can give them, and they only get one chance of of whatever political colour, will not be tempted to try that? Does he also agree that the extensive use of to flatter itself by bringing in a little grade inflation. We coursework has masked the true picture of some of our have in Ofqual and in its current regulator a strong pupils’ abilities? leader determined to ensure that that will not happen. It is a pity that we do not have the same robust system of Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. regulation in Wales, for example. There are some subject areas—art and design, design and technology—where it is important to show practical skills through coursework, but there are other areas, Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): particularly English and mathematics—particularly The CBI has said that we need to produce “rounded English—where, unfortunately, coursework and controlled and grounded” young people, but I understand that assessment have not reinforced the rigour that we all these plans will not assess those important competences, want. which business require. Why is the Secretary of State not listening to business organisations? Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): Following on from that last comment, why does the Secretary of State not Michael Gove: I very much enjoy listening to business believe that properly assessed and moderated coursework organisations, even those such as the CBI that have demonstrates a depth of understanding of a subject historically perhaps been wrong on big issues—for example, that simply learning facts to be churned out at an exam the euro. Nevertheless, there is a lot that the CBI has does not? said about education that I do commend, and I think that the introduction of a greater degree of rigour in Michael Gove: The hon. Lady misunderstands the English language writing skills and a higher level of fact that at the moment, as the Select Committee report demand in mathematics meet exactly the request from points out today, coursework and controlled assessment all sorts of businesses to ensure that there is higher can lead to over-marking and inconsistency. It is also attainment among the students they wish to recruit. the case that the modularisation of GCSEs, which 169 GCSEs11 JUNE 2013 GCSEs 170

[Michael Gove] Does the Secretary of State agree that he is in danger of winning over teachers, winning over the Opposition occurred under a Labour Government, led to precisely and doing a very good job? Is that the way we should be the sort of cram-and-forget style of learning that I proceeding? think neither of us approves of. Michael Gove: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. He is John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): I warmly welcome today’s absolutely right: sometimes we need to be divisive and announcement. What representations has the Secretary pugnacious, but today I am glad that consensus on a of State had from employers’ organisations showing number of issues appears to exist across both Front that they feel these changes are likely to add to the Benches. economic competitiveness of this country and make it easier for them to select credible candidates for employment? Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Will the Secretary of State accept that his proposals will blight Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes a good point. the value of the qualifications of those taking examinations The CBI has pointed out that the number of employers in the next four years and break the union of qualification who are dissatisfied with school and college leavers’ currency between England and Wales? Should he not basic skills remains stuck at around a third; the Institute have tried harder to get a compromise, instead of simply of Directors has said that the value of GCSEs has leaking the contents of his meetings with the Welsh declined; and the Federation of Small Businesses has Government to the press? said that eight in 10 small businesses do not believe that school leavers are ready for work. Business recognises that we need rigour, and that is why business supports Michael Gove: Into every life a little rain must fall. the coalition Government. May I say to the hon. Gentleman that the fault lies, I fear, with those who have not been as anxious to preserve Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): Teachers— the rigour in the examination system as our regulator, even head teachers—who are responsible for delivering Ofqual. I will say no more. the Secretary of State’s curriculum have expressed little confidence in him on the nature and timing of his Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con): I welcome the changes. When will he really listen to the professionals removal of grade inflation—we owe it to our young in schools who actually teach and plan and know what people to have a value system that everyone recognises. they are talking about? However, as someone of Welsh heritage, who got all my qualifications in Wales, I am very concerned that certain Michael Gove: It is an unfortunate myth that the qualifications will now have greater merit than others, profession is united. There is a range of views within the which will disadvantage poorer communities, and some teaching profession and among head teachers. What is employers will not understand the two sorts of qualifications striking is that an overwhelming number of those who that may come about. lead outstanding schools and are developing outstanding practice support the drive for higher aspirations that Michael Gove: My hon. Friend puts her finger on a this coalition Government are leading. really important issue. One thing that I am anxious to do is to secure, with the help of the regulator, a proper Stephen McPartland (Stevenage) (Con): Education is understanding that can help us to encourage those the best opportunity for poorer children to change their responsible for qualifications in Wales to recognise which life chances. Does the Secretary of State agree that we changes are appropriate and which are not. need an exam system that employers and teachers have confidence in, to help those poorer pupils achieve in life? Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ Co-op): As the Secretary of State knows, we have some Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. of the best secondary schools in the country in Hackney, Few people know more about the chalk face than he where rigour is very important. As the Secretary of does, given that his partner is a primary school teacher. State’s approach to education policy seems to be that it He is absolutely right that we need to change our is in one day, out the next—he is playing hokey cokey—can examination system, to restore confidence that has he assure head teachers, parents and pupils in my area unfortunately been dented. and around the country that there will not be a lot more changes down the path? Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): The Secretary of State’s entire statement is about the importance of qualifications, and I am sure parents will appreciate that, but can he Michael Gove: A clear direction of travel has, I hope, give parents an assurance that no unqualified teachers been set today and we will of course consult and listen, will be teaching these GCSE courses? but the hon. Lady is absolutely right. In Hackney, a high level of ambition has been embedded for years, Michael Gove: One thing I can say is that teachers are and I know there are head teachers and teachers in better qualified than ever, and the new head of the Hackney who welcome the direction we have set today. Teaching Agency and the national college, Charlie Taylor, has been responsible for changes that ensure that we John Howell (Henley) (Con): I declare an interest, in have more highly qualified young people, teaching to a that my wife is a teacher. The Secretary of State has higher standard than ever before. already referred to the opinion of the Federation of Small Businesses that eight in 10 of its members thought Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I declare an that school leavers were not ready for work. How will interest: my daughter is a teacher in a state school. these reforms address that problem? 171 GCSEs11 JUNE 2013 GCSEs 172

Michael Gove: Small businesses, like all businesses, and interaction with the devolved Administrations are want to ensure that students have the English language vital. We should be ever mindful that they also have a skills necessary to communicate with confidence in a legislative process to go through. What steps will the business setting and the arithmetical and mathematical Secretary of State take to ensure that the timetable is skills necessary to compete effectively in the 21st century. not too rigid, so that delivery in all parts of the United I believe that the changes we are making to English and Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland can be maths—the benchmark qualifications—will meet the achieved? needs of business. Michael Gove: That is a very good point, and we will Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Would that every work with the devolved Administration in Northern young person who had failed their resits on three occasions Ireland, and with Westminster representatives like the was able to claim that they were merely engaged in a hon. Gentleman, who takes a close interest in these process of Hegelian dialectic with the examining authorities, matters, to make sure, if we can, that there is proper although I would prefer a more Socratic dialogue, such alignment. as has been engaged in in Wales. It is a real shame that the Secretary of State has set himself against coming to Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con): I thank the a common position across the whole of the United Secretary of State for his announcement, which is a Kingdom. What I really do not understand for the life huge step, putting more rigour and higher standards in of me is why he thinks that learning vast quantities of academic subjects. May I press him on when we can “The Wreck of the Hesperus” or “The boy stood on the expect the draft curriculum programme of study for burning deck” or “If” will make young people better design and technology, and in which year he expects equipped for the work environment. that to be taught? Michael Gove: There are two things that I would say. First, I am always anxious to reach consensus with Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. colleagues in Wales, but it takes two to make a consensus. When we put forward draft programmes of study for [Interruption.] At least two. The second thing that I different curriculum areas, some of them attracted more would say is that when it comes to learning English, yes controversy than others. It is fair to say that design and it is important to have the utilitarian skills that business technology was one of the most controversial. We have demands, but it is also important that children from listened to some of the critics, and a new draft will be every background are given a chance to appreciate forthcoming in a few weeks’ time. beauty—the best that has been thought and written. I know that the hon. Gentleman appreciates beauty in Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): I pay tribute many spheres of human endeavour— to the Secretary of State, who is responding to the demands of employers and higher and further education Chris Bryant: Truth is beauty, beauty truth. providers, and to the needs of pupils, by reintroducing rigour to the exam system. Does he share my concern Michael Gove: And he is quoting Keats now. All I that pupils in Wales, who may want to seek employment would say is that he is not the only person who has an opportunities across the UK and beyond, could be interest in poetry. I was delighted when John Cooper disadvantaged if the Welsh Government refuse to follow Clarke, one of my favourite poets, said only last week this reform? Will he agree to make the qualification that our approach to the teaching of poetry was absolutely available, irrespective of the Welsh Government’s judgment, right. to those schools that want to pursue this new rigorous GCSE? Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): What discussions has my right hon. Friend had, or does he intend to have, Michael Gove: Absolutely—this qualification should with the Welsh Government on the issue? It is crucial that be available to all state schools that have high aspirations we retain the integrity and credibility of Welsh pupils in for their students. Next Monday, I look forward to the eyes of employers and universities across the United meeting Andrew R.T. Davies, the gifted gentleman who Kingdom. Has he considered suggesting to the hon. leads for the Conservatives in the Welsh Assembly. I will Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms also talk to Welsh Conservative MPs, of whom there Abbott) that she go to the Welsh Assembly to speak to are a growing number, to see how we can take this her political colleagues about a positive way forward? forward effectively. Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I respect the devolution settlement, and it means, of Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): As a member of the course, that the Education Minister in Wales can make Education Committee, I welcome the Secretary of State’s the appropriate decisions which he considers to be right positive use of our report in today’s statement, because for Wales, but I want to ensure that we can work together it was a well-researched, considered report. I also welcome in future to bolster confidence in all the examinations his appreciation of the role of Ofqual, but does it that young people take. I have already had a meeting include making sure that teachers are not teaching to with the Welsh Education Minister, which was frank the exam rather than to the subject as a whole? and cordial; I hope that we can have further such meetings. Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes a very important point. One of the problems with the way that Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Further to the modularisation occurred was that it led to too much question by my hon. Friend the Member for South teaching to the test, and insufficient deep understanding. Antrim (Dr McCrea), the timetable is tight, and discussions I hope that our reforms will address that. 173 GCSEs 11 JUNE 2013 174

Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): My constituents in Point of Order Northumberland will welcome this effort to raise standards across the board, although my local schools already produce outstanding results, despite very low per capita funding. Will the Secretary of State meet a delegation 1.15 pm of head teachers of my high schools at some stage this summer in Westminster, to discuss both this consultation Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): On a point of order, and the proposed transitional funding arrangements? Mr Speaker. I am worried about the Secretary of State for Education. Not only has he fallen in love with my Michael Gove: It would be a pleasure. hon. Friend the Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) this afternoon, but, more Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): The English importantly, even though he met the Minister for Education language, used right around the world, is perhaps the and Skills in Wales only recently, he seemed to refer to greatest export from these islands, but one of the knock-on him as a “she”. I should clarify for the House that he is effects is that, despite the best efforts of colleges with Leighton Andrews, not Julie Andrews. specialist language expertise, such as the Montsaye academy trust in Rothwell in my constituency, as a nation we do not teach modern languages as successfully Mr Speaker: I am not sure that is a point of order, but as we might. Against that background, why will modern for the benefit of the hon. Gentleman and the House, I languages be in the second wave of these reforms, not will say that I could have told the Secretary of State that the first? myself. Leighton Andrews is well known to me; he was my boss 25 years ago. Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes a very good point. It is simply that there are some quite difficult issues to deal with when it comes to finding exactly the right way to ensure that speaking and listening skills, in particular, are properly assessed, but I absolutely agree with him that we need to do more to encourage the take-up of languages. Unfortunately, it dipped under Labour; it is now increasing, thanks to the changes that we have made with the English baccalaureate measure.

Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con): Businesses that I have met in my constituency have told me of their concern about the level of literacy and numeracy among some school leavers, yet pupils can only sit the exams that are in front of them, and teachers are surely right to teach to those exams. Does that not show that the current system is not operating fully for everybody, and that the Government are right to focus on it, and fix it?

Michael Gove: My hon. Friend puts the case brilliantly.

Mr Speaker: I am extremely grateful to the Secretary of State and colleagues. 175 11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 176

Children and Families Bill (6) The Secretary of State may by regulations define “specified health conditions” for the purposes of this section. [Relevant documents: Sixth Report of the Education (7) For the purposes of this section “NHS bodies” has the Committee, Session 2012-13, Pre-legislative scrutiny: Special same meaning as in the Health and Social Care Act 2012.’. Educational Needs, HC 631; Fourth Report of the Justice Inclusive and accessible education, Committee, Session 2012-13, Pre-legislative scrutiny of New clause 21— health and social care provision— the Children and Families Bill, HC 739; Sixth Report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, Session 2012-13, ‘(1) In exercising a function under Part 3, a local authority and Reform of the Office of the Children’s Commissioner: NHS bodies in England must promote and secure inclusive and accessible education, health and social care provision to support draft legislation, HC 811; Children and Families Bill children, young people and their families. 2013: Contextual Information and Responses to Pre- Legislative Scrutiny, Department for Education, Cm 8540.] (2) Regulations will set out requirements on an authority and its partner NHS commissioning bodies to promote and secure Consideration of Bill, as amended in the Public Bill inclusive and accessible education, health and social care Committee provision in its local area, in particular through— (a) the planning; New Clause 9 (b) the design; (c) the commissioning or funding; (d) the delivery; and TRANSFER OF EHC PLANS (e) the evaluation of such services.’. ‘(1) Regulations may make provision for an EHC plan maintained for a child or young person by one local authority to be transferred New clause 24—Publication of information relating to to another local authority in England, where the other authority Special Educational Needs tribunal cases— becomes responsible for the child or young person. ‘(1) The Secretary of State must collect information on all (2) The regulations may in particular— cases related to special educational needs which are considered (a) impose a duty on the other authority to maintain the by the Tribunal Service, including— plan; (a) the local authority involved; (b) treat the plan as if originally prepared by the other (b) the cost to the Tribunal Service; authority; (c) the amount spent by the local authority on fighting (c) treat things done by the transferring authority in each case; relation to the plan as done by the other (d) the nature of each case; and (Mr Timpson.) authority.’.— (e) the outcome of each case. Brought up, and read the First time. (2) The Secretary of State must collate and publish information collected in the exercise of his functions under 1.16 pm subsection (1) once a year. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (3) The following bodies must make arrangements to provide (Mr Edward Timpson): I beg to move, That the clause be such information to the Secretary of State as is necessary to enable him to perform his functions under this section— read a Second time. (a) the Tribunal Service; Mr Speaker: With this it will be convenient to discuss (b) local authorities.’. the following: Amendment 59, in clause 19, page 18, line 22, at end New clause 8—Support for children with specified add— health conditions— ‘(e) the right of the parent to make their own arrangements for some or all of the special educational provision ‘(1) The governing body of a mainstream school has a duty to under section 7 of the Education Act 1996.’. produce and implement a medical conditions policy that defines how it plans to support the needs of children with specified Amendment 39, in clause 21, page 19, line 16, leave health conditions. out ‘wholly or mainly’. (2) The medical conditions policy must include provision Amendment 60, in clause 23, page 19, line 29, leave about— out ‘may have’ and insert ‘probably has’. (a) the means by which records of the specified health Amendment 61, page 19, line 32, leave out ‘may have’ conditions of children at the school are to be recorded and maintained; and and insert ‘probably has’. (b) the preparation of an individual healthcare plan for Amendment 46, in clause 27, page 22, line 3, at end each child with a specified health condition which sets insert— out the needs of that child arising from that condition. ‘(2A) If the education and care provision provided as part of (3) The medical conditions policy must include requirements the local offer is deemed insufficient to meet the needs of relating to the provision of appropriate training for school staff children and young people under subsection (2), a local authority to support the implementation of individual healthcare plans. must— (4) In preparing an individual healthcare plan the governing (a) publish these findings; body must— (b) improve that provision until it is deemed sufficient (a) consult the parent of the child concerned and, where by— appropriate, the child about the contents of the plan; (i) those consulted under subsection (3); and and (ii) Ofsted.’. (b) there shall be a duty on NHS bodies to co-operate Amendment 62, in clause 28, page 23, line 29, at end with the governing body in its preparation and implementation of individual healthcare plans. insert ‘; (n) Parent Carer Forums.’. (5) Local authorities and clinical commissioning groups must co-operate with governing bodies in fulfilling their functions Amendment 66, in clause 30, page 24, line 21, leave under this Act. out ‘it expects to be’ and insert ‘which is’. 177 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 178

[Mr Speaker] ‘(6) This section will not have effect until an Order is made by the Secretary of State, subject to affirmative resolution by both Amendment 67, page 24, line 24, leave out ‘it expects Houses of Parliament. to be’ and insert ‘which is’. (7) Before making an Order under subsection (6), the Secretary Amendment 30, page 24, line 34, at end insert— of State must lay a copy of a report before both Houses of Parliament detailing findings from the pathfinder authorities ‘(f) arrangements to assist young people and parents in established under the Special Educational Needs (Direct Payments) managing a personal budget should they choose (Pilot Scheme) Order 2012, including but not limited to— one.’. (a) the impact on educational outcomes for children and Amendment 68, page 24, line 39, at end insert ‘, young people; including in online communities.’. (b) the quality of provision received by children and young Amendment 69, page 25, line 7, at end insert— people; ‘(7A) The Secretary of State shall lay a draft of regulations (c) the value for money achieved; setting out the minimum level of specific special educational provision, health care provision and social care provision that (d) the impact on services provided for children and young local authorities must provide as part of their local offer, and the people without EHC plans, or those for whom direct regulations are not to be made unless they have been approved by payments were not made. a resolution of each House of Parliament. (8) The Secretary of State may not prepare a report under (7B) Once regulations under subsection (7A) have been made, subsection (7) until September 2014. the Secretary of State must— (9) An Order made under subsection (6) may amend this (a) issued guidance to local authorities on how to meet section as the Secretary of State deems necessary to ensure the these regulations, and effective operation of personal budgets, having had regard to the (b) publish information on these regulations accessible to finding of the report produced by virtue of subsection (7).’. the families of children and young people with Government amendment 21. special educational needs on the Department’s Amendment 38, in clause 50, page 37, line 18, at end website, and in any other way he sees fit.’. insert ‘; Amendment 65, in clause 36, page 28, line 21, at end insert— (g) the social care provision specified in an EHC plan; ‘(1A) A person acting on behalf of a school or a post-16 (h) the healthcare provision specified in an EHC plan.’. institution (“A”) must request an EHC needs assessment for a Amendment 47, in page 48, line 35, leave out clause 69. child or young person (“B”) as soon as A becomes aware that B Amendment 71, in clause 65, page 45, line 37, leave has been diagnosed with epilepsy or a related condition.’. out ‘19’ and insert ‘25’. Amendment 40, page 29, line 20, leave out subsection (10). Amendment 72, page 46, line 11, leave out ‘19’ and insert ‘25’. Amendment 44, in clause 37, page 30, line 8, leave out from ‘provision’ to end of line 10 and insert Amendment 73, in clause 67, page 47, line 21, leave out ‘required by the child or young person.’. ‘such persons as the Secretary of State sees fit’ Amendment 41, page 30, line 13, leave out subsection (4). and insert Amendment 45, in clause 38, page 30, line 35, at end insert— ‘publicly, for a period of not less than 90 days’. ‘(g) an institution of higher education which the young Amendment 74, page 47, line 22, leave out ‘by them’ person has accepted an offer from.’. and insert Government amendment 17. ‘as part of that consultation’. Amendment 37, in clause 42, page 33, line 6, at end Amendment 75, in clause 67, page 47, line 23, leave insert— out subsections (3) to (8) and insert— ‘(2A) If the plan specifies social care provision, the responsible ‘(3) A code, or revision of a code, does not come into local authority must secure the specified social care provision for operation until the Secretary of State by order so provides. the child or young person.’. (4) The power conferred by subsection (3) shall be made by Amendment 63, page 33, line 13, leave out ‘suitable statutory instrument. alternative arrangements’ and insert (5) An order bringing a code, or revision of a code, into ‘arrangements suitable to the age, ability, aptitude and special operation may not be made unless a draft order has been laid needs of the child or young person and has chosen not to receive before and approved by resolution of each House of Parliament. assistance with making provision.’. (6) When an Order or draft of an order is laid, the code or Amendment 42, in clause 44, page 34, line 3, leave out revision of a code to which it relates must also be laid. subsection (5). (7) No order or draft of an order may be laid until the Amendment 43, in clause 45, page 34, line 37, leave consultation required by subsection (2) has taken place.’. out subsection (4). Amendment 48, in clause 72, page 49, line 46, leave Amendment 64, page 34, line 39, at end insert— out from ‘education,’ to end of line 1 on page 50. ‘(4A) A local authority must not cease to maintain an EHC Government amendments 22 to 25. plan on the sole ground that the child or young person is educated otherwise than at school in accordance with section 7 of Mr Timpson: Part 3 of the Bill introduces a much the Education Act 1996.’. stronger framework for supporting children and young Government amendments 18 to 20. people with special educational needs. These reforms Amendment 70, in clause 48, page 36, line 21, at end have been widely welcomed, and I am grateful to Members add— in all parts of the House for their interest in and 179 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 180 support for them. We can be sure in the knowledge that we introduced a requirement for local authorities when the Bill has been significantly strengthened since draft exercising a function under part 3 to have regard to the clauses were published last autumn. views, wishes and feelings of a child and his or her We have all met constituents who have had to battle parent, or of the young person, and the importance of to get the special educational support that their child them participating as fully as possible in decisions, and needs. These reforms are ambitious; they aim to ensure being provided with information and support to enable that in future, children, young people and their parents them to do so—an important set of transcending principles. are at the heart of the system, and that special educational We have clearly specified the right of parents and provision builds around them, instead of asking them young people themselves to request an assessment for to adjust to the system. It will not always work perfectly special educational needs, to remove any uncertainty. in every case, but the pathfinders that I have visited have We have ensured that young people on apprenticeships convinced me that we have a really exciting reform can receive support through an education, health and under way—one that challenges local authorities to care plan. We have enabled independent special schools design a system around those who use it, rather than and specialist colleges to apply to be on a list of institutions conform to existing structures and processes. The reforms for which parents and young people with education, are also ambitious as regards personal aspirations. The health and care plans could express a preference. We new system will support young people through further have changed our approach to mediation so that parents education and training, up to the age of 25 for those and young people must consider mediation but do not who need it, and focus much more strongly on independent have to take it up and can go straight to appeal to the living and helping them to find paid employment. The tribunal if they wish without prejudicing their position. provisions extend support to younger years as well, so To ensure that services are responsive to families’ that children are supported as soon as their needs are needs we added a requirement for local authorities to identified, from birth onwards, instead of having to involve children, young people and parents in reviewing wait until they reach school to be assessed. the local offer and to publish their comments about the The reforms provide the foundation for a system in local offer and what action they will take to respond, which children and young people’s needs are picked up and we made provision for the SEN code of practice to early; parents know what services they can reasonably be approved by Parliament by way of negative resolution. expect their local schools, colleges, local authority, and health and social care services to provide, without having Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) to fight for the information; those with more severe or (Lab): I apologise for missing the first two minutes of complex needs have a co-ordinated assessment built the Minister’s speech. He outlines responsibilities that around them and a single education, health and care have rightly been referred to various public agencies, plan from birth to 25; and parents and young people but I find it somewhat confusing that nowhere can I have greater control over their support. I believe these find, either in the new clause or in the amendments, any ambitions are shared across the House. reference to advocacy. I might have missed something, We had a wide-ranging, constructive debate on Second but what role do the Government see for advocates in Reading, and the Committee sittings were passionate, the situations that we are discussing? knowledgeable and helpful. I hope that today we can build on the broad consensus that has characterised the Mr Timpson: The right hon. Gentleman raises an debate to date. important point. Advocacy comes in different forms. We have also listened carefully to the views expressed We have advocacy in relation to the legal process, and by Members of the House, parents and young people, legal aid will still apply up to the point of tribunal for and many of the organisations supporting them, and those who require legal advice. There is also advocacy we have acted to improve the SEN provisions following in terms of trying to navigate the system. One thing that pre-legislative scrutiny and as the Bill has made its way we are doing in relation to the pathfinders is to see who through the House. can help co-ordinate and navigate for parents and young people in a system that often has been too impenetrable, Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): The Minister labyrinthine and drawn out. That could be through a may recall that he kindly met me to discuss my particular key working role or through the work that the special concerns about children who had suffered from cancer educational needs co-ordinators carry out so effectively and perhaps missed quite a large amount of school but in so many of our schools. It is a practical response to did not fit in with the SEN criteria. What level of the problem that we know exists while ensuring that the support could they expect under these proposals? advocacy that is currently available for the legal process continues into the future. We set that out in Committee Mr Timpson: I recall the constructive meeting that I and I encourage the right hon. Gentleman to look had with the hon. Gentleman and he will remember that carefully at what we said. I gave a commitment then to work with him and with organisations with which he has been working with Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): Will the Minister great astuteness to see what more we can do through the reassure some local authorities that the proposal will code of practice and other means to provide the additional still ensure integration between the 1970 legislation, the support that we all want to see so that no child, particularly Children Act 1989 and this Act, and make sure that a child with cancer, misses out on the opportunity to there is not a silo system that does not have the integrated fulfil their potential, and I will continue to work with service that we all so want? him to achieve that. Following the Education Committee’s thorough and Mr Timpson: My hon. Friend touches on the heart of well-argued report—another one—in December, we the Bill, which is to tackle the perennial problem of amended the Bill in several ways. By virtue of clause 19, special educational needs, in that education, health and 181 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 182

[Mr Timpson] Mr Timpson: Briefly to disaggregate my hon. Friend’s two points, clearly it is important that we know what is social care have tended to work in parallel rather than in happening in schools on the delivery of SEN provision, conjunction with one another. In many of the clauses, and since September 2012 we have had a strengthened both through the general duty to co-operate, the joint Ofsted framework that seeks to do that. I and my commissioning clause, and now the duty on health as colleague in the Department of Health want to explore well as the duty to consult parents and children themselves, what more we can do to try to bring about a more there is already, with the pathfinders, a growing involvement multidimensional accountability and inspection regime of each of those different agencies in coming together for special educational needs that goes beyond the and concentrating on the central and most important school gates and looks at it across education, health and issue, which is the child. I hope he will see that the Bill social care, so there is more that we can do in that area. gives local authorities an opportunity to nurture and The Education Department is also looking at some of grow their relationships with health and other agencies, the destination measures in schools as a way of ensuring and ensure that as a consequence they are providing that we do not miss out on understanding the progress better services for children in their local area. of children who sometimes fall below the radar because they do not count towards any of the measures of success that the school is being marked against. We Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): need to get around that and make it more explicit that I thank my hon. Friend on behalf of the Education every child needs to be making progress whatever their Committee for taking such a positive and constructive ability, and there is no reason why all of them should approach to our pre-legislative scrutiny report, and not be doing so, and every school has a responsibility in implementing so many of the proposals, as he has just that regard. listed. We made further changes in Committee, where I was My hon. Friend appeared before the Committee this pleased to include a specific duty requiring those responsible morning in our inquiry into school sports, and he for commissioning health provision to secure the health suggested that he would consider looking at the code of care provision education, health and care plans. This is practice to ensure that rather than disabled children a hugely significant change and has been widely welcomed. being sent to the library while others are doing sport, as Srabani Sen, board member of the Every Disabled we heard in evidence sometimes happens, they have Child Matters campaign and chief executive of Contact access to sport in schools, and that that is part of an a Family, when giving evidence to the Committee on 5 overall package to meet their needs. March, said that “it was phenomenally good news to hear this morning about the Mr Timpson: As ever, I am grateful to the Chair of duty on health to provide. One of the things that that helps with enormously is bringing people together to work together at a the Education Committee for raising a crucial element service delivery level”— for many young people with a disability, and that is access to other activities outside those of the classroom. a point that my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham I am mindful of that and as I told the Committee this (Guy Opperman) made— morning have seen for myself, at a special school in “but it also gives parents something solid that they can use Chislehurst only last week, how the integration of sport when they are having these discussions with their service providers about how they get the right services for their child. I do not think in schools, where children with both physical and other we can overestimate the potential of what you”— disabilities are able to participate, can have a huge knock-on effect in other areas of their life. It would not I think that means me— always be appropriate through the identification of the “announced this morning. It is phenomenally useful.”––[Official needs and therefore the support for each child in relation Report, Children and Families Bill Public Bill Committee, 5 March to their plan to have a built-in element that incorporates 2013; c. 47-48, Q103.] and encompasses physical activity, but clearly we want The new duty builds on the joint commissioning duty to provide as much opportunity for them as for any set out in the Bill, which requires local authorities and other child. The schools should be doing it anyway clinical commissioning groups, and NHS England where under the Equality Act 2010 and the reasonable adjustments relevant, to assess the needs of the local population of for which they are responsible, but it also makes good children and young people with SEN and plan and sense, as we know. I am happy—I made this commitment commission services to meet them. to the Committee—to look at that in the context of the code of practice, but also to work with many of the 1.30 pm organisations and charities who are already out there, through the project ability scheme and others, to see Mr Tom Clarke: The Minister has referred several what more they can do to spread good practice in this times to the role of local authorities, but the reality is area. I am happy to keep my hon. Friend informed of that some local authorities give greater priority to this that process. than others. Because this ought to be—I think that the Government agree—person-centred, considering the needs, rights and ambitions of young people, has he had an Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): As has been mentioned, opportunity to speak with the Local Government the Select Committee held a series of pre-legislative Association, for example? scrutiny meetings. Is the Minister satisfied that there are sufficient accountability mechanisms for agency Mr Timpson: Yes, I have had a number of meetings co-operation, and that the appropriate agency will with the Local Government Association, the Association automatically take the lead? How will that work out in of Directors of Children’s Services and other bodies different cases? that will be responsible for delivering education, health 183 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 184 and care plans and, more widely, SEN provision within family feeling that they are working in a different their local area. This has been a huge consultative environment from those around them. By ensuring that exercise, and one that continues through the pathfinders. that happens, we will reduce the prospect of conflict, One of the messages we have been clear about throughout misunderstanding and, therefore, the road to tribunal, the process is that legislation, although a key component which we all want to avoid. That is why we included the of long-term, sustainable reform, is not the whole solution. mediation process, albeit on a voluntary basis, to give We also need to see—this is happening through the parents and those responsible for providing services pathfinders and starting to spread outside them as we every opportunity to work together, co-operate and develop the changes in the system more widely—a consult at every stage, but particularly in the early recognition that those bodies must play their part at stages, in order to avoid unnecessary discord and damage grass-roots level and recalibrate the sorts of relationships further down the line. that in the past have not been good enough to help deliver the required provision. Mr Graham Stuart: While the Minister is on the subject of conflict between local authorities and parents, Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): I would may I press him, as many of my amendments do, on like to build on the comments my right hon. Friend the home-educating parents, who all too often have been Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Mr Clarke) subject to misinformation and abuse of power by local made about the role of local authorities. The Royal authorities? Will he give serious consideration to including National Institute of Blind People has raised specific a provision stating that parents who home educate are concerns about the registration of visually impaired not to have their children’s SEN support removed and children—it is worried that some local authorities will that local authorities, despite their duty to find children do it but some will not. Has the Minister had an with SEN, do not have their powers to demand access opportunity since that was discussed in Committee to to children strengthened? We should reinforce the primacy have any further conversations with either the RNIB of parents in deciding what should happen to their directly or local authorities on that issue? children and ensure that local authorities are the servants of families, not their masters. Mr Timpson: I will be corrected if I am wrong, but my understanding is that there have been ongoing discussions. We are aware of the issue. As with all Mr Timpson: I have a strong memory of spending a organisations that have expressed an interest in the Bill, late night in the House a few years ago when my hon. we have been keen to keep an open dialogue with the Friend managed to get more than 100 of us to present RNIB to see what solutions we can find. Many of the petitions on behalf of many of those parents who solutions will be found at local level. We must accept decided to home educate their children. I know that he, that some conditions have a high incidence and some as chair of the all-party group on home education, has have a low incidence, and that can affect the sort of been a great advocate on their behalf. Clearly we want provision available right across the country. The beauty to ensure that every child with SEN, however they are of trying to develop the local offer is that it will make it educated, during the period of compulsory age and far more transparent not only in a local area, but across beyond, from nought to 25, gets the support they require a regional area, so parents and young people will have a to meet their full potential. That should be no different greater understanding of what is available to them, how in the circumstances he describes. I will be able to they can access it and, if they are unable to do so, how respond in more detail when we debate his amendments, they can make a complaint, which in the past has been and I am happy to continue that conversation with him quite a convoluted and impenetrable process. We must outside the Chamber. ensure that they have the power to make those decisions. Neil Carmichael: On home education and the obvious Guy Opperman: I am not sure whether I need to, but I issues relating to special educational needs, what will make a declaration: I have represented about consideration has the Minister given to registration of 100 applicants for statements at special educational those children who are home educated? needs and disability tribunals, and local authorities still owe me money for some of them from before 2010. The simple question that my constituents in Northumberland Mr Timpson: I am straying slightly outside my portfolio, would like answered, if that is possible, is this: will these but where it impinges on special educational needs proposals make it easier to gain a statement for those clearly we want to ensure that those children receive the parents who have been trying to do so for so long, given support they require. There were attempts in the last that the process has been so convoluted and difficult Parliament to bring about some form of registration, over the years, as we have all found? which was eventually put out to grass. I think we have the balance right at this stage, but of course it is Mr Timpson: The short answer is yes. That is the something that my ministerial colleagues who are intention of the Bill. There are a number of reasons for responsible for these matters will no doubt keep under saying that. One of the complaints from parents about review. the statementing process relates less to the statement The new duty in the Bill relating to health commissioning itself and more to early identification and the need for also brings in joint commissioning arrangements, which much greater effort from different agencies in co-ordinating must include those for securing education, health and care the assessment and the plan. Everything in the Bill tries needs assessments and the education, health and to encourage that and, in some circumstances, cajole care provision specified in the education, health and the different bodies to come together and work with the care plans. The new health duty requires health family, rather than, as we have heard far too often, the commissioners to ensure that the health elements of 185 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 186

[Mr Timpson] person has actually received the provision, in a manner in keeping with the regulations. I urge the House to those plans are provided for each individual, thus providing support these amendments. direct clarity for parents that the support their child Government amendment 21 relates to clause 49, which needs will be provided inserts new section 17ZA into the Children Act 1989, We have taken an open approach to the Bill, listened giving local authorities a power to continue to provide carefully to the views of a wide range of people and services they have been providing under section 17 to a made changes to improve it. I know that is the approach young person before their 18th birthday to that young that my ministerial colleagues in the other place, including person when they are 18 and over. This is a technical Lord Nash, intend to continue when the Bill makes its amendment that makes it clear that the power in section way to them. However, before it does we have some 17ZA applies only to local authorities in England. important business to conclude in this House today. Government amendments 22 to 25 relate to schedule 3 I will begin our consideration of the Bill’s SEN and make further amendments to existing legislation as provisions by speaking to new clause 9 in a little more a consequence of the Bill’s provisions—for example, detail and to Government amendments 17 to 25. These replacing references to statements and learning difficulty amendments clarify responsibilities and make consequential assessments throughout. These are necessary changes amendments to legislation as a result of provisions in to ensure the proper implementation of the reforms in the Bill. With regard to new clause 9, it is important part 3, and I therefore urge hon. Members to approve that the responsibilities of local authorities are clear them. when a child or young person with an education, health and care plan moves from one area to another. The new Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland clause provides for regulations to specify those West) (Lab): It is a pleasure to debate this Bill again, responsibilities. Regulations will make it clear that the this time on the Floor of the House. In Committee we new local authority is treated as though it had made the had some excellent debates on this part of the Bill, in plan. This ensures that plans do not lapse when children particular. A large number of amendments were tabled and young people move from one area to another and by hon. Members on both sides of the Committee, but that support for their special educational needs is we were at all times united in our ambition for the maintained. I therefore urge the House to support new children and young people to whom the Bill applies. clause 9. It is crucial that children and young people with Amendment 17 to clause 41 has been tabled at the special educational needs and disabilities be given the request of the Welsh Government. It would enable support they need to access education and reach their independent schools that are specially organised for potential, academically and in terms of their physical, making provision for children and young people with social and emotional development. It is not just a moral special educational needs, and specialist post-16 institutions imperative that leads us to seek those better outcomes in Wales, to apply to the Secretary of State for Education for all children; there is also a financial imperative for to be on a list of independent institutions that those the whole country.A young person who makes a successful with education, health and care plans can ask to be transition to adulthood and has achieved as much as named on their plan. If independent schools in Wales they can educationally is likely to be less in need of wish to put themselves forward for approval, the welfare, health and social care support and more likely amendment will be of benefit to children and young to be able to work and contribute their skills to the people who live close to the Welsh border whose needs economy and their taxes to the Treasury. We support a would be best met in a Welsh independent school or great many of the reforms that the Government are those who would be appropriately placed in independent making to achieve these better outcomes, but we have boarding provision in Wales. I urge the House to support sought at all stages to ensure that we are going as far as the amendment. we can, that current rights and entitlements are protected On amendments 18 to 20 on personal budgets, I and built on, and that children and young people, and signalled our intention to table these consequential their families, are at the very heart of the changes made amendments when we debated clause 48 on personal and are able adequately to hold agencies to account budgets in Committee. The changes they make are where they do not get the support they should. necessary because of the changes we made to clause 42 We support the introduction of personal budgets to in Committee by placing the duty in clause 42(3) on allow families a greater degree of choice in securing the health commissioners to secure the health provision choice that their child needs. As I said in Committee, I identified in an education, health and care plan. The would have greatly welcomed such an opportunity when amendments allow health commissioners to discharge I was trying to get my severely dyslexic son the support their duty to make health care provision specified in he needed to get through his GCSEs. However, there are EHC plans when this provision is secured using a direct serious and abiding concerns about whether they can payment. This replicates the equivalent provision on work in the sense of improving outcomes while providing local authorities set out in clause 48(5). The amendments value for money for the taxpayer, and there are still clarify that when parents or young people exercise their questions about how the market for support that this direct payment, this allows the commissioning body to reform will create will really look. The Government are discharge its statutory duty. The proposed use of the running pathfinders in an effort to answer these questions, words “having been” in clauses 48(5) and 48(7) makes it but they have not been answered yet. Parliament is clear that the duties on commissioning bodies and local therefore being asked to legislate for something that we authorities to secure provision are discharged only through do not know will work and could well be a costly the use of a direct payment when the child or young failure. 187 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 188

1.45 pm what I am asking for in this amendment, and in any case the information should be much easier to find and Mr Tom Clarke: I agree with my hon. Friend about interpret. I therefore hope that he will continue to look the social, educational and employment needs of young at this issue or tell the House why, in an age of transparency, people. On her point about the economy, I wonder this information should not be available to parents. whether she is aware that she is supported by the National Audit Office, which has said: We want to reduce as far as possible the current postcode lottery, but still fear that the Government’s “Supporting one person with a learning disability into employment could, in addition to improving their independence and self-esteem, plans for local offers, as drafted, could lead to greater reduce lifetime costs to the public purse by around £170,000”. disparities in services across the country. We welcome the requirement to compile and publish local offers, but She is therefore speaking very logically. fear that without a baseline expectation from the Department of what should be in them or, indeed, any Mrs Hodgson: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, departmental oversight, they may not be worth the who quantifies what we all know and believe is the crux paper they are printed on. As the Education Committee of this issue. He has made a very important point. has pointed out, getting local offers right is crucial. If Amendment 70 seeks to ensure that these reforms we do not and the services that children and young cannot be rolled out until such time as the pathfinders people need are not provided, we will just see more and have run their course and provided sufficient evidence more requests for statutory assessments. on the effectiveness of personal budgets that Parliament Our amendments 66 and 67 would therefore require can be content in allowing the roll-out to go ahead. I local offers accurately to reflect what is actually available hope the Minister will again take it in the spirit in which in the local area, rather than simply what the local it is intended and give a commitment to the House that authority might say it expects to be available. They this measure will not be steamrollered through. would remove the wriggle room that local authorities We support the switch from statements to education, might have and ensure that they keep the offers under health and care plans, extending the maximum age of constant review. I hope the issue can be explored further support for young people to 25 to ensure that it covers in the other place. further education courses and apprenticeships, and the Amendment 69 would require the Secretary of State ambition to encourage joint working between different to set national standards for what the local offers should agencies in drawing up those plans and providing the include. I am no enemy of localism, as the Minister services described in them. However, there are still some might argue—local offers should absolutely reflect local concerns that, as worded, the Bill would give local needs and priorities and be drawn up in consultation authorities a get-out clause from providing services to with local parent groups. However, if we are to tackle enable young people between the age of 19 and 25 to the unwritten postcode lottery, there should surely be a carry on in education, even where they have not yet baseline of services that any child or young person achieved to the level we might expect for young people anywhere in England should be able to expect. I have without SENs. Those concerns are addressed by said before that local offers may simply codify the amendments 40 to 43, tabled by the hon. Member for unwritten postcode lottery, and that they have the potential South Swindon (Mr Buckland), which we support. I, to result in a race to the bottom as local authorities look like him, would be grateful for firmer assurances that at their budgets and seek to undercut the local offers of prior outcomes, not age, will be the main focus of their neighbours. I want assurances from the Minister deciding whether or not to grant or cancel a plan. that there will be something—anything—to stop those My amendments 71 and 72 would ensure that we are fears being realised. measuring the outcomes of young people with plans up to the age of 25 rather than 19, as is currently required Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD): The phrase under the Special Educational Needs (Information) Act “postcode lottery” is well used in all sorts of policy 2008, which is transposed into clause 65. It stands to areas, but does the hon. Lady accept that there is a reason that if we are maintaining support for these difference between a postcode lottery and a postcode young people, we should also know how well that democracy? In other words, where there is democratic support has helped them. I would be grateful if the accountability it is not, strictly speaking, a lottery, Minister committed to how best that might be done although I accept some of the hon. Lady’s concerns. within the “special educational needs in England”analysis documents that clause 65 will require the Secretary of Mrs Hodgson: I accept that that phraseology is probably State to produce. not appropriate for this scenario, but it is important Another set of information that should be published that the Government consider a baseline so that we do as part of the annual report relates to the special not end up with different levels of service that can be educational needs and disability tribunal. I would like referred to as a postcode lottery. parents and campaigners to have access to information Amendment 69 also refers specifically to the participation on the outcomes and costs to the public purse in tribunal of children and young people with special educational administration and the amount spent by local authorities needs or disabilities as a key outcome that local offers on legal fees—of the cases that reach that stage—so we should be geared towards achieving. The Minister made can see who the worst offenders are and which local some positive comments about this amendment in authorities would prefer to pay a lawyer £20,000 to Committee, so I would be grateful if he provided an prevent a child from getting £5,000-worth of support. update on his work in order to ensure that the need to The Minister helpfully pointed me towards some help these children and young people make the most of information that was squirreled away on the Ministry of the benefits that information communication can afford Justice’s website, but as he will know, it is not exactly them is adequately reflected in the code of practice. 189 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 190

[Mrs Hodgson] remove the clause at a later stage. If it is not removed, I fear it will face even tougher opposition from the noble We are also concerned about the lack of clarity from Lords in the other place. Ministers on what will replace the graduated response to SEN in schools—school action and school action The hon. Member for South Swindon has also tabled plus—which currently provides support to 17% of pupils. amendment 37, which was one of the main bones of Members may know that the answer will lie in the contention in Committee. I, like him, believe that education, revised code of practice rather than in the Bill itself, and health and care plans should do what they say on the tin that is why we have tabled amendments 73, 74 and 75, and entitle the holder to expect all of the provisions which seek to ensure that the document is subject to they detail. At the beginning of this process we fear that thorough public consultation before a final version is they will be no better than the statements they are actively approved by Parliament, rather than laid under replacing, and simply provide entitlements to education the negative procedure. I hope the Minister will recognise provision. Ministers had said that there was no way of why we feel that is so important, and commit to tabling imposing duties on health bodies to keep up their end of Government amendments to that effect in the other the bargain, but the Minister, to his credit, quickly place. found a way of placing duties on them to deliver what they are expected to, and improved the plans immeasurably In addition to our own amendments, I have also in doing so. signed a number tabled by the hon. Member for South Swindon. As reflected in his valuable contribution to One piece of the jigsaw remains, however: the social the Committee’s scrutiny of part 3, the hon. Gentleman care element. Once again, we have an opportunity in has a deep passion for and knowledge of the issues, and this Bill vastly to improve the rights of children and I find myself agreeing far more than disagreeing with young people and their families in accessing the services him, despite the fact that we sit on opposite sides of the they need. Amendment 37 would add the finishing House. In particular, we are both extremely keen to see touch to education, health and care plans by placing a some movement from the Government on clause 69, duty on local authorities to secure the social care provision which states that children and young people in custody detailed within them, meaning that those plans would should not benefit from the reforms in this part of the provide families with the certainty and confidence they Bill. need. I urge the Minister to find a way to make that happen. I feel—and I think the Minister agrees—that this is a massive missed opportunity. Many of the inmates of I also support new clause 21, tabled by the hon. young offenders institutes will have special educational Member for South Swindon, on inclusive and accessible needs. For example, 18% of young offenders have a services, a subject on which we had a great debate in statement, compared with just 2% to 3% of the general Committee; his amendment 39, on what constitutes population. At least 60% will have communication problems educational support; and amendment 38, which seeks and a similar percentage will have literacy and numeracy to create a single point of accountability for all three difficulties. Many of those special educational needs strands of provision within a plan. I look forward to will never have been identified, despite the fact that in hearing what he has to say about all the new clauses and many cases they were probably a contributory factor to amendments when he makes what I am sure will be an those people finding themselves in this position. As it excellent contribution. stands, they will not be able to continue to receive the I also support new clause 8, tabled by the hon. support they were already getting if they are placed in Member for Torbay (Mr Sanders), which centres on custody, and nor will they be eligible for an assessment provision in schools for children with medical conditions, if someone working with them in the institution thinks and which I and my colleagues tabled in Committee as they need one. new clause 19. Some 29,000 children in our schools have This is not only counter-productive, in that it will diabetes, 1.1 million have asthma, 60,000 have epilepsy severely limit these institutions’ability to reduce reoffending and many more have heart conditions or suffer from through education, which is what we want them to do; it regular migraines or the after-effects of meningitis or is also overly prescriptive—it prevents local authorities cancer, as has been mentioned by my hon. Friend the from continuing the support they want to provide to a Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami). young person in the hope that it will improve their life Those children and their parents deserve to know chances and steer them away from crime and antisocial that their school can effectively manage those conditions behaviour. while they are there; that the child will be given their I dealt comprehensively in Committee with the reason medication, inhaler or whatever they need whenever the Minister gave why a plan is not suitable in these they need it; that staff will know when they are being circumstances—the need to name an educational affected by their condition; and that allowances will be establishment in the plan—and I hope he has had a made for them where appropriate. We do not have a chance to look into the role that virtual academies and consistent approach to managing medical conditions in courses can play, and at the great work the Nisai Virtual schools as yet, and I agree with the Health Conditions Academy is already doing in this area. in Schools Alliance that this Bill provides an excellent opportunity for the Government to at least look at how Labour voted against clause 30 in Committee and schools support these children and, indeed, at how will be tempted to do so again if the hon. Member for schools are supported to provide that support. We South Swindon wishes to test the will of the House, but cannot just expect teachers and school staff to know I sincerely hope the Minister will respond positively and how to do that as a matter of course. They need help give us both an assurance that the Government will from the NHS, which has the experts. 191 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 192

We want much stronger assurances on all the issues On a related theme, and with regard to the point of covered by those amendments than we received in view of parents and families, amendment 38 deals with Committee. Otherwise, they will be revisited in the the right of appeal against decisions that are made other place. I look forward to hearing those assurances about the creation and ambit of education, health and when the Minister gets back to his feet. care plans. The Bill allows the first-tier special educational needs and disability tribunal to hear appeals only about 2pm the education aspects of the plan. That means that it covers only part of the plan. I worry that we could end Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): It is a up with a complex and bureaucratic system in which pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Washington challenges to the health and social care aspects of and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson), who rightly said provision have to be conducted simultaneously through that the Public Bill Committee not only saw a cross-party different tribunals, procedures and processes. coming together of minds, but delivered meaningful scrutiny of probably the most important Bill relating to I noted with encouragement the Minister’s comments special educational needs that we will see in a generation. in Committee. I know that the draft code of practice, It is 30 years since the Education Act 1981 broke the which is helpfully published alongside the Bill and will ground after the noble Baroness Warnock made her be consulted on later this year, states that having a recommendations. We are in the unique position as single point of redress for all the provisions in an legislators of being able to make a step change for the education, health and care plan would be helpful. He generations to come. That is why it is incumbent on us said in Committee that the existing complaints procedures all to get the detail right. in health and social care meant that it would be unnecessary to extend the powers of the tribunal. However, he made I thank my hon. Friend the Minister for his constructive the important concession that a single point of reference engagement with the debate, and not only in the Public would be desirable. That is helpful. Bill Committee. He has engaged not only with Members of this House, but with the disability sector. He has Neil Carmichael: When the Education Committee brought understanding and experience to the deliberations considered that aspect of the measures during pre-legislative of the Bill, which we have enjoyed. I note with enthusiasm scrutiny, two issues arose. The first was the difference in his willingness to improve the Bill. As has rightly been culture between education and health. I wonder whether said, the Government have introduced important legal my hon. Friend wants to comment on that, given that duties on clinical commissioning groups to bolt down we expect education and health bodies to work together the health elements of education, health and care plans. and that any accountability process could be complicated. That good work goes on today in the form of further The second issue was that health would have to take the amendments. lead in some cases because it would have the overwhelming To get to the meat of the matter, I will deal in turn portion of the responsibility, but the Bill focuses on with each of the amendments that I have tabled; my education. comments have been foreshadowed by those of the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West. I am Mr Buckland: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, because grateful to her for outlining what I want to say and he makes an important umbrella point about the difficulties make no criticism of that at all. Amendment 37, which that could be encountered and that—dare I say it—could appears in my name and hers, relates to the social care be exploited by clever lawyers. I often say that and I element of education, health and care plans. It is, as she have to remind the House that, although I am not sure described it, the last piece in the jigsaw. that I am clever, I must admit that I am of the legal I enjoyed the exchange that I had with the Minister profession. It is proper to concede that point against my about this matter in Committee. It is correct that the profession, because lawyers will be instructed by local groundbreaking Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons authorities that need to conserve their resources and Act 1970 contains an important duty that can be applied will increasingly look to discharge their statutory duties, to social care services for disabled children. However, but to go no further. We have to avoid the scenario of there is a danger that in failing to link that existing duty families having to wait for provision while lawyers dance with the duties that we are creating, we will not escape on the head of a pin over costly and unnecessary the silo effect of assessments. What do I mean by that? arguments. There is a danger that a wholly separate social care Dan Rogerson: I am grateful for the huge amount of assessment will continue to be made, without the global work that the hon. Gentleman has done on this subject approach that I and the Minister believe is the ethos during the passage of the Bill and elsewhere. He is behind the Bill. It would therefore be a missed opportunity making a strong argument for a unified appeals process. if, for want of a few short amendments, we missed this There is strong logic, which has been pursued by the trick. Minister and his predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member We should look at this matter from the point of view for Brent Central (Sarah Teather), for bringing the of the parent of a child who comes fresh to a system of processes together so that families who are looking for which they have no experience. Surely the thrust of our support have one point of contact or one meeting to approach must be oriented around not just the child, attend. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if the but their family. We have heard many stories—I speak current tribunal process is not the right way to achieve from experience—of parents having to reinvent the that, the Government can continue to consider the wheel every time they engage with a separate part of matter as the evidence comes back from the pilot? local provision. We must all seek to avoid that. That is why I commend the wording of amendment 37, which Mr Buckland: I am extremely grateful to my hon. would do much to tie together the assessment process in Friend for his kind remarks. He makes an important the way that I have described. point about a common entry point for families. That is 193 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 194

[Mr Buckland] that is often misunderstood by members of the public. Perhaps I should pause for a moment and pay tribute to a good start, but more needs to be done to build on it. the families and carers who, day in, day out, have to put To be frank, it may not be necessary to do that through up with ill-informed and quite frankly abusive comments primary legislation and the rules of the tribunals might from members of the public who should know better, be used. That would be a matter for Her Majesty’s whether those parents are taking their child to use a Courts and Tribunals Service. I know my hon. Friend is disabled lavatory in a supermarket or going to the liaising with counterparts in the Ministry of Justice on cinema and trying to enjoy a film with their child who other matters that I shall come on to, and I sure he will may have a special need that means they make a lot of also give this issue careful and anxious thought. noise or have to move about. We still have a long way to At the moment, clause 50(4)(a) allows go in society to achieve general understanding among a “other matters relating to EHC plans against which appeals may wider section of the public about what it is like to live be brought;” with a child who has special needs. It is good that an increasing number of towns offer autism-friendly cinema to be added to the jurisdiction of the tribunal. To be fair screenings, for example, that allow people to sit in to my hon. Friend, there does seem to be a power within comfort on a Sunday afternoon without needing to the Bill, but it would be wise to go just one furlong have eyes in the back of their head or worrying about further and make it absolutely clear to the families we what somebody else will say about their child. I have represent that simplicity is the order of the day when it parenthesised a little, but I am grateful to my hon. comes to people’s rights to challenge decisions that—let Friend for his intervention. us not forget this—will affect the life course of the young people we are dealing with. I was talking about “wholly or mainly” and the concern shared by many people that we could end up Let me move on to a rather interesting—well, I hope with a wholly artificial argument about a particular so—and important matter. Having to admit to being a type of provision falling between two stools. Thankfully, lawyer is not popular in this House, but words are it has been made clear on case authority that speech important and if we change the meaning of something, and language therapy would be an educational need, once again the lawyers will jump all over it. In that but as my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough spirit, let us consider amendment 39, which relates to (Mr Jackson) said, in a number of examples there will the position of current case law, and the synthesis be less clarity and an ugly argument could break out between health care provision, social care provision and between the health service and the local authority about education—a point that returns to the comments made by who is responsible for what. my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Neil Carmichael). The Government’s intention seems clear: they wish to 2.15 pm replicate current case law when it comes to how local authorities judge their responsibility to make provision Alison Seabeck: It has been interesting to listen to the in that area. Clause 21 includes the words hon. Gentleman and his expert comments. Does he “wholly or mainly for the purposes of education”, accept that young people with disabilities often drift into having mental health problems at different levels, and I share the concern that the words “wholly or and that that group faces enormous problems? We mainly” set a different and higher threshold than is know that there is often a lot of difficulty in the education currently set out in case law. In the 1999 Bromley case, and health services when deciding who should manage Lord Justice Sedley spoke about a case-by-case analysis those young people. of particular applications, rather than a general principle as seems to be suggested by the clause. We should Mr Buckland: That is absolutely correct, and I am therefore consider a spectrum or range of provision grateful to the hon. Lady. Sadly, mental health issues from purely medical to purely educational need. A large are a co-morbidity that becomes prevalent if, for example, number of cases will fall inside that spectrum, bearing a condition such as autism is not identified at an early in mind the common and well-understood scenario that age. It is a tragedy that so many young people who have with a particular need often comes a co-morbid need—a autism or Asperger’s-related conditions end up with a special educational need will often be accompanied by a mental health problem because their condition is not health need as well. diagnosed or has been misunderstood or in some cases mistreated. I pay tribute, however, to child and adolescent Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): I strongly mental health services that do the job well, understand support the points that my hon. Friend is making the needs of people with pre-existing conditions, and eloquently and with his normal charm, especially as adapt their services accordingly. A visit to a CAMHS they relate to particular groups. I speak from my experience unit can be quite a regressive experience for a young of working with children who have Tourette’s. That is person with autism, which is why adapting services one of the most obvious examples of co-morbidities around the child or young person is so important. and, for want of a better expression, people fall through the cracks in current legislation and are often failed by Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) educational or health provision. The amendment seeks (Con): My hon. Friend makes a powerful case. Does he to ameliorate that difficult situation. share my view that, as with the local offer, it is important to avoid confusion between two things—educational Mr Buckland: I am extremely grateful to my hon. provision for local students and educational provision Friend, and I pay tribute to him for the work he does available in the local area? With some conditions, the with a very challenging condition. A lot of people think local area simply might not be capable of providing the Tourette’s syndrome is a funny thing, but for those who educational specialist provision that would be available suffer from it, it is a challenging and difficult condition from national providers. 195 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 196

Mr Buckland: I am extremely grateful to my hon. Such provision does not have to be made for that Friend, who I know represents a wonderful special purpose to be significant to the education or training of college in Hereford that does tremendous work, not just a child. I put it to the Minister that a better wording on a local basis but on a wider basis. He brings a would result in provision that is significant to the education different strand to some of our debates about the need or training of a child or young person being treated as to ensure that, where necessary, there will still be placements special educational provision. It would capture that well out of the borough, county or district in which which is important to deliver the education a child young people live. Colleges such as the one my hon. needs. The original motivator is not the key point. Friend admirably represents fulfil that need and gap and must be part of our provision. Mr Buckland: I do not claim a monopoly of wisdom on the precise wording, but it is important to go back to Jesse Norman rose— the case law—London Borough of Bromley v. the SEN tribunal in 1999, in which Lord Justice Sedley stated: Mr Tom Clarke rose— “Special educational provision is, in principle, whatever is called for by a child’s learning difficulty,” Stephen McPartland (Stevenage) (Con) rose— which he goes on to define. He states: “What is special about special educational provision is that it is Mr Buckland: I will give way one more time to my additional to or different from ordinary educational provision”. hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South In that phrase, we have a more fundamental definition. Herefordshire (Jesse Norman) and then to the right Provision is not what is significant, but whatever is hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill necessary. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for looking (Mr Clarke). at that. My hon. Friend the Minister is listening carefully. Either in this House or in the other place, we need to Jesse Norman: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for achieve clarity and a replication of the words of the giving way again. He is right to say that the Royal Lord Justice of Appeal, so that we do not end up National College for the Blind is an extraordinary moving away from the Government’s clearly stated institution, in part because it provides, through its own intention. specialist skills, the kind of holistic understanding of how educational and health care needs can come together. Jesse Norman: Does my hon. Friend share my view That is one reason why it is such an extraordinary and that, to be effective and to respect that leading judgment, special place and why it must be preserved amid all the the idea of a local offer must include national providers? other things the Bill seeks to achieve. The judgment is not delimited by location; it merely says that provision should be whatever is necessary. A national provision is sometimes the correct option for a Mr Buckland: I cannot improve upon perfection. person with special needs.

Mr Tom Clarke: In arguing powerfully, as he is, for a Mr Buckland: My hon. Friend is right. Low-incidence holistic approach, including for education, does the special needs can be catered for only by specialist colleges hon. Gentleman accept that that can impact on the later such as the one he represents—another college in lives of such young people, particularly with issues such Loughborough offers wonderful provision on a national as employment? basis.

Mr Buckland: It is a pleasure to serve in the House Stephen McPartland: Will my hon. Friend give way? with the right hon. Gentleman, who has a long and honourable track record of campaigning for young Mr Buckland: My hon. Friend has been very patient, people and adults with disability. He understands very so I shall let him intervene. well from his experience that the repercussions of decisions made at that stage in life echo down the years. We mentioned mental health and employment prospects. Stephen McPartland: I thank my hon. Friend very Only one in four young people with autism get into much for giving way. I am interested in the other end of employment. I believe we can improve on that shameful the spectrum—pre-school children and the tension between statistic. I know there is a will among Ministers, including education and health. In Stevenage, we have a nursery the noble Lord Freud, to change that, which I believe called Tracks, which provides education support for we can do. pre-school children with autism. The local education authority does not recognise that such children could have autism, so parents waste a year or two of normal Mr Graham Stuart: Will my hon. Friend give way? school time while they persuade the authority that their child has autism. Mr Buckland: I will give way to my hon. Friend, the Chairman of the Education Committee. Mr Buckland: I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend, who, in effect, gives us a case study. He reminds Mr Stuart: I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend, me that I want to draw back to what we were discussing. who makes a powerful speech. I wonder whether he is I have a hypothetical case study before me. A young right to propose removing “wholly or mainly”, because 15-year-old with Asperger’s and co-occurring mental the Bill would read: health difficulties receives cognitive behavioural therapy. “Health care provision or social care provision which is made…for Before starting that therapy, his attendance at school the purposes of the education or training of a child”. was low, attending as few as two days a week, but with 197 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 198

[Mr Buckland] whether the provision goes far enough. Clause 37(2)(d) places a duty on local authorities to include in the plans the help of the therapy he attends more like four days a health provision that is “reasonably required” by a child week. His conditions have a huge effect on his home life or young person. With clever lawyers, arguments could and the quality of relations with his parents and wider arise over the meaning of “reasonably”. We should family. therefore delete that word. Under the new system, it is not clear whether that Clause 37(2)(d) also states that health services that young man’s cognitive behavioural therapy would be must be included in the EHC plan must be linked to the deemed “learning difficulties and disabilities which result in” “wholly or mainly for the purposes of…education”. the special educational needs of Without it, he could not access education, because he “the child or young person.” would not attend regularly. We need to answer that In other words, the health provision must be linked to question. We do not want to put such people in that the specific impairment that has resulted in the child or position, or to have artificial debates on what the law young person being considered to have SEN. If the means. health need is not specifically linked, it does not need to be included. The danger is that limiting the requirement Neil Carmichael: My hon. Friend is making an could result in confusion and, bluntly, injustice. For outstanding speech on a critical issue. I want to reinforce example, if a child with Down’s syndrome has a related the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for heart condition, health provision needed to support Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman) on their medical needs would need to be included in the the importance of access to national facilities, because EHC plan. However, if a child with Down’s syndrome we must not localise provision at the expense of national has chronic asthma, which is unrelated to their Down’s organisations. Ruskin Mill in my constituency, and the and does not result in the SEN, there is no requirement National Star College in my county, provide expertise to include the medical need in the plan. Such a distinction that we do not necessarily find elsewhere that is critical works against the Government’s intention to create a to young people’s futures. I want to put down a strong co-ordinated system. Once again, energy is being wasted marker that we should ensure that national facilities are on arguments about what is related to the special need. not put at risk through the funding— Let us try to cut the Gordian knot and deal with the issue in a straightforward way that does not create Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. confusion and the potential for litigation. We are drifting now. Interventions are supposed to be short points that are relevant to the speech at the time they are made. If Members want to contribute, they 2.30 pm can. The hon. Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) Amendment 45 relates to our debate on the status of has had the floor for some time, and other hon. Members higher education institutions and their inclusion in the wish to speak in this important debate. Despite his new framework. It is welcome that further education generosity in giving way, I am sure he is probably will be part of the spectrum of provision. It is right to coming towards the end of what he wishes to say in this say that many universities already meet the needs of part of the debate. disabled young people well, with the provision of disabled students allowance and other assistance. However, we Mr Buckland: I am extremely grateful to you, Madam still hear far too many stories about disabled students Deputy Speaker. Your exhortation allows me to move having to battle to get the wider support they need to on to the other amendments in my name, which I will access higher education and the problems they face in deal with as expeditiously as I can. securing support from local health and social care services. The current proposals stop once a young person goes Amendments 40 to 43 deal with young people over 18. into higher education. Therefore, there is a concern that The extension of legal protections for young people more needs to be done to include universities. Again, I with SEN up to 25, which is at the heart of the Bill, is pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Minister. He rightly warmly welcome. However, the Bill states a number of acknowledged the need for further discussions with times that local authorities “must have regard to” a universities, and I know he will look carefully at our young person’s age when making decisions on the support submissions. they receive after they are 18. We understand that the extension of provision to 25 does not create a blanket Amendment 46 relates to accountability for the local right to education for all young people with SEN, but offer, which is one of the cornerstones of the Bill. That we are concerned that the current drafting could give has to mean something for families and young people, another get-out to local authorities, which could use the so the question of accountability is key. fact that a young person was over 18 to deny them support. Therefore, I suggest the removal of the phrase Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op): “must have regard to his or her age” This is a particularly important amendment, among the many that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned. I strongly to avoid that unintentional consequence. agree that this duty is extremely important in making Amendment 44 relates to the duty of health the local offer meaningful. I hope the Government will commissioners. As I have said, I welcome that extension, listen to the support for the duty, as well as to the which is a significant improvement, and which breaks representations that I am sure will be made in the other the problem of the silo effect on education and health place. In making this contribution, I draw the attention care plans. However, in the amendment, I am asking of the House to my declaration of interest. 199 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 200

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. Before the hon. Member My hon. Friend and other hon. Members were absolutely for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) gets to his feet again right to focus on the big issues that have an impact on I have to say that he has now been speaking for 32 minutes. those with learning disabilities. Other Members wish to speak, so I hope he will draw I am joint chair, with Lord Rix, of the all-party group his remarks to a conclusion soon—in the next 60 on learning disability. We have achieved a great deal, seconds—so we can move on to other contributions to but we still have much more to do. One of the key this important debate. features of the Bill, for example, under clause 19 is the move to involve young people and children under the Mr Buckland: I bear your strictures seriously, Madam age of 16 in decisions about their special educational Deputy Speaker. needs provision. Children and young people with special I pray in aid remarks I have made in the past on the educational needs, particularly those with a learning importance of the accountability of the local offer, and disability, have trouble reading and understanding material echo the comments made by the hon. Member for unless it is fully effective, and that applies to Braille and Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) on other things. clause 69. I urge my hon. Friend the Minister to redouble Although localism is appropriate and schools should his efforts with the Ministry of Justice, so that clause 69 be judged on how well they are doing, there nevertheless is expunged from the Bill when it returns to this House. ought to be standards that are accepted across the May I very briefly mention new clause 21, which is whole of the UK. I remind the House, as a Scottish part of this group? It relates to the duty to ensure that Member, that although these matters have been devolved there is inclusion for children and young people. That to the Scottish Parliament, the annual economic and must not just be a comfortable word that we in this fiscal settlement has to bear the Barnett formula in place all use—it has to mean something. In transforming mind, so it is as appropriate to discuss these issues in local services, we must stop making an assumption, England as it is in the devolved institutions. even for children and young people in special schools, that there will not be times when they will want to It is essential that any information for, or consultation access mainstream services. I should add that a large with, people with a learning disability is accessible number of children with special needs currently enjoy and meaningful to ensure effective participation and mainstream education with appropriate support. We involvement. Mencap has highlighted that this means need to underpin the spectrum of provision, whether in using easy read formats for blind or partially sighted the form of education or other local provisions, which is people. Organisations such as Scope point out that such why I commend new clause 21, which was tabled with necessities should not be a postcode lottery, as my hon. my colleagues on the Joint Committee on Human Rights, Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland the hon. Members for Aberavon (Dr Francis) and for West also rightly said. This is the challenge before us. I Ealing, Southall (Mr Sharma). am a little envious that I was not on the Committee, because I am sure that its considerations were thoughtful I am grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for and progressive, and I congratulate it on its work. allowing me to address the House at some length. I apologise for that, but this is an important Bill. We have I would like to conclude on this note. On the issues got to get it right. that we are dealing with—education, health, care and social matters—coming back to the child and the family is vital. Before I sit down, I shall give one example. A 2.34 pm few years ago, I was invited to an exhibition in Glasgow Mr Tom Clarke: It is a pleasure to follow the hon. organised by the National Autistic Society demonstrating Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland). For politicians some of the wonderful work in art and music that these days, a few kind words go a long way. I congratulate young people with autism were nevertheless able to him on his effective work on autism. The House will be produce. The VIPs opening the exhibition stood beside pleased to hear that I do not intend to speak for long, as a particularly impressive painting, but as we listened to there is so much business today, but I wish to focus on the speeches we were discouraged by the noise that one amendments 46, 66, 67, 68 and 69. If I find myself on a of the children was making, until we realised that this different path, I am sure you will keep me in order, beautiful painting, which we had all admired, was painted Madam Deputy Speaker. by that young woman. That is the opportunity. We can do it. We can deliver for special educational needs. I I would like to pick up on comments made on both hope that as the Bill progresses through both Houses, it sides of the House. I thank sincerely my hon. Friend will be seen as a major step in that noble direction. the Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson), who led for the Opposition. She rightly focused on education, which is vital in bringing out the Mr Graham Stuart: It is a pleasure to take part in this talents and abilities of children, and recognised that debate and to follow my hon. Friend the Member for these issues should, at every level—for education, certainly, South Swindon (Mr Buckland) and the right hon. Member but also employment, health matters and so on—be for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Mr Clarke). person-centred. My hon. Friend will agree when I say The right hon. Gentleman’s final point was right: this is that disabled people are one of the groups that are the a flagship Bill. Just as the Disability Discrimination Act furthest away from the employment market, and education 1995 turned out to be an historic step forward and a has an impact on that. Disabled people are twice as great achievement by the then Conservative Government, likely to be unemployed as their non-disabled peers. In so I think this flagship Bill will be a great achievement 2012, the Office for Disability Issues estimated that of this coalition Government. It is symbolic that the 46% of working age disabled people are in employment, Minister’s predecessor was a Liberal Democrat and that compared with 76% of working age non-disabled people. he has carried the Bill forward. 201 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 202

[Mr Graham Stuart] parents have the primary responsibility for their child’s education. My amendment would assert that responsibility I know that we have limited time but I want to make a and the right of families to be free to educate their few comments. I was a little sceptical at the beginning of children independently, if they so wish. this process, and I remain worried that we might create a level of expectation among parents greater than the 2.45 pm Bill can deliver, especially in this time of austerity, not My concerns about unintended consequences that least for local government budgets, but my scepticism might be read into the Bill also prompted me to introduce and doubt have been eroded over time. The way successive amendments 60 and 61. Clause 22 of the Bill states: Ministers have worked and the way the Bill has taken shape gives me hope that it can be as significant for “A local authority in England must exercise its functions with a view to securing that it identifies all the children and young children with special educational needs as the Disability people in its area who have or may have special educational Discrimination Act was for those with disabilities. needs.” I wish to speak to my amendments 59 to 64, but first I As worded, this might lead local authorities to believe want to put on the record my thanks to the Minister for they must insist on seeing all home-educated children to his close and courteous co-operation with my Committee. assess whether they have special educational needs. His actions to improve the Bill in response to our Members might think such an interpretation perverse, recommendations have been appreciated, and he was but I know from paying close attention to the interests big enough to list the changes that the Select Committee of home educators over the years that perverse outcomes had suggested and which the Government had adopted. are not unknown when it comes to local authorities and Ministers should not be embarrassed—quite the home-educating families. The current phrasing of the contrary—to change their proposals on the basis of Bill opens the door to it. evidence and submissions from people in the Chamber My amendments to clause 23 are designed to focus and outside. the authority’s attention where it might reasonably be The Education Committee paid particularly close required, rather than inadvertently implying a duty to attention to part 3 of the Bill on children and young screen all children. They would bring this clause into people in England with special educational needs. As I line with clause 24, which employs the phrase “probably say, we welcomed many features of the Bill in our has” regarding special educational needs. That is also pre-legislative scrutiny, such as the introduction of integrated the phrasing in existing legislation—specifically section 321 education, health and care plans and the fact that the of the Education Act—where it has functioned satisfactorily. new statutory framework for SEN will cover children Amendment 62 is designed to underline the importance and young people from birth all the way to age 25. We of parents’ and young people’s roles in developing SEN should not underestimate the significance of these changes. arrangements with local authorities. Clause 28 lists the They will deliver a process for assessing and meeting local partners with whom local authorities must co-operate children’s and young people’s individual needs that in developing local offers. During our pre-legislative could be more coherent, comprehensive and compassionate. scrutiny, the Education Committee heard compelling As always, however, the devil lies in the detail, so my evidence that parents should be given a clearer mandate Committee will closely monitor the impact of these in this part of the Bill. This sentiment was expressed by changes in practice. bodies such as the National Autistic Society and the My amendments have a common theme: to ensure National Network of Parent Carer Forums. Brian Gale that nothing in the Bill reduces the centrality of parents of the National Deaf Children’s Society pointed out in making decisions for their children. I am particularly that the list of local partners overwhelmingly represented concerned to ensure that local authorities do not use the the provider interest and did too little to give a voice to Bill to seek to change the balance in their relationship children, young people and their parents. Including with the parents of children with special educational parent carer forums on the list would improve the needs. I wish the Bill to enhance, not diminish, the role, situation, so I hope the Minister will give it careful power and influence of parents. I have particular concerns consideration. about parents who have chosen to educate their children Our inquiry heard how early evidence from pilot at home. From discussions with the Minister, I know it schemes and pathfinder work indicated that where local is not the Government’s intention to undermine the parent carer forums had been actively involved in planning parental role, but unless that is made clear in the Bill, and designing schemes, the work of the pilots had been there will always be the risk that these things will more solution-focused and more likely to gain the support creep in. and confidence of the families taking part. In the section That is why I have proposed amendment 59. It would on parent carer forums, the Department’s draft code of insert a new subsection (e) in clause 19 expressly requiring practice for SEN acknowledges: local authorities to have regard to the right of parents “Effective parent participation can lead to a better fit between to make their own arrangements for their children, in families’ needs and service provision, higher satisfaction with accordance with the Education Act 1996. Without this, service delivery, reduced service costs (as long term benefits the possibility will remain that local authorities might emerge), better value for money decisions and less conflict between providers and those dependent upon services.” try to steamroller home-educating parents, who are only trying to do the right thing by their children. I am If the Department knows that to be true, I would urge not saying it will necessarily happen, certainly not in all the Minister to add parent carer forums to the list I cases, but it is conceivable. My amendment is intended mentioned. to prevent the situation from arising, whether through My amendment 63 is similarly designed to safeguard sins of omission or of commission. That is to say, the parents’ rights. It would amend the wording of clause 42(5). aim is to prevent local authorities from forgetting that It outlines the situation where a local authority or a 203 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 204 health commissioning body is not obliged to arrange step forward. Many schools have such a policy in place the specified educational or health provision set out independently but too many do not. Last week, my under an EHC plan. As drafted, these bodies do not office met the Crawforth family from my constituency. have to make provision for a child if the parent has Their son suffers from type 1 diabetes. He is one of made “suitable alternative arrangements”. This “suitability” 29,000 children in the UK who live with the condition, requirement implies that someone in authority will have yet a study by Diabetes UK in 2009 found that in only to decide whether the parents’ arrangements are suitable. 29% of cases did school staff help with insulin injections. It is another feast for the lawyers. This requirement In 47 % of cases, someone other than a member of would be inherently subjective and risk introducing school staff helps the young person with blood glucose uncertainty, which the Government are keen to eradicate, testing, including parents in 42% f these cases. into the system My amendment substitutes this phrasing for that of section 7 of the Education Act, which Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): I apologise currently already requires such arrangements to be suitable for coming in a bit late. Some years ago I had a for a child’s age, ability, aptitude and any special educational ten-minute rule Bill on this subject and I welcome the needs. It is a much more specific formulation and will fact that the amendment will address it. I would like to therefore avoid the definitional pitfall. put it on record that, as far as I am concerned, this is a My amendment serves a second purpose, by emphasising welcome amendment. that clause 42(2) and (3) do not apply when parents have made appropriate arrangements and when they Mr Stuart: I welcome that intervention. have chosen not to receive assistance with making provision. These statistics are unacceptable and reflect a situation It is incredibly important that when parents are home that places unfair pressure on children, parents and educating and seeking to make suitable provision, local teachers alike. The new clause would require schools to authorities do not opt out of offering support. It is engage directly with parents and to co-operate with essential that they continue to provide that support. local NHS authorities in preparing and implementing They do not have to be in overall control of the situation strategies to head off these risks. I suggest to the Minister or in charge before they fulfil that responsibility. that its inclusion would strengthen the Bill and help end Finally, my amendment 64 is designed to prevent the status quo whereby the quality of support available local authorities from washing their hands of home- to children and families coping with conditions such as educating parents. Clause 45 describes the circumstances diabetes is largely a matter of chance. in which a local authority may cease to maintain an I am mindful of your strictures on time, Madam EHC plan for a child or young person. My amendment Deputy Speaker, but I would like to speak in support of would ensure that the Bill expressly provided that local amendment No. 43, tabled by my hon. Friend the authorities cannot cease to maintain an EHC plan Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland). I am solely because a child or young person is being educated concerned that requiring local authorities to review the other than at school. In the absence of an EHC plan, continuance of EHC plans for young people aged over local authorities might argue that because a child is out 18 with specific regard to their age may make it more of the school system, they are not under a duty to likely that support would be curtailed or dropped altogether provide anything and therefore the plan does not need on the basis that the young person would be deemed to to be maintained. Home-educating families need to be have made the transition into adulthood. This concern protected against any such reading of the law. is heightened by paragraph 231 of the explanatory notes to the Bill, which explains the thinking behind The amendment again may be accused of taking an clause 45. It gives examples of potential stages at which unduly pessimistic view of how local authorities may EHC plans can be amended or replaced. These include interpret this Bill, but local authorities have a track the end of a specified phase of a young person’s education record of interpreting the rules in ways that best suit or when a young person becomes a NEET. This runs their own purposes. They often find home education contrary to the recommendations made by my Committee anomalous and thus something from which they would in our report, where we acknowledge the particular seek to remove help. Unless protections are built into position of NEETs and apprenticeships and the potential the Bill, parents of children with SEN will continue to of EHC plans to assist young people with SEN into be concerned that they may lose out to unduly officious constructive employment. We recommended that the local town hall bureaucrats. My amendment would put Bill should provide entitlement to EHC plans both to that right and, in doing so, would put the issue beyond NEETs of compulsory participation age and to young all doubt. people who are undertaking apprenticeships. The Minister may suggest that this is a matter for the We heard from Dai Roberts, the principal of Brokenhurst new SEN code of practice, but experience has made it college, who cited the case of two learners with profound clear that it is unsafe to rely on guidance where there is deafness who were then on marine engineering ambiguity within the education itself. In education, as apprenticeships. They had to have signers to help them elsewhere, one size does not fit all and the Bill should with their training. These are precisely the young people recognise that, build it into the system and provide who need extra support in order to follow their ambitions reassurance to thousands of young people and their parents. so they can get on and make a success of their lives. The If I may, I will briefly touch on a couple of other amendment deserves support and clause 45(4) deserves issues. I welcome new clause 8 and congratulate the to be scrapped. hon. Member for Torbay (Mr Sanders) on introducing My final remarks will be on the local offer. Getting it. Requiring schools to have a robust policy in place to that right will be essential to ensuring that the Bill safeguard and support children with health conditions overall helps young people. I am confident that those such as asthma and diabetes would represent a positive who get an EHC plan will be in a better situation than 205 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 206

[Mr Graham Stuart] that some children have to cope with and, often, being supportive as a result. I know my hon. Friend speaks those under the previous regime of statements. In fact, from direct experience of such things. it is essential to ensure not that it is easier to get a plan—the Minister, surprisingly in my view, said he 3pm wanted to make that case. I hope that there will be fewer people having plans than under statements, not because In considering the case for any new clause or amendment there is an effort to guide them away from them, but to legislation that the Government produce, there are because local offers meet so many of the needs of three conditions that the House ought to expect to be parents and young people that there is not a requirement met. By the same token, if the Government continue to for the bureaucratic involvement that will be required resist such amendments, the House should expect them even in our streamlined EHC system. to be able to argue that those conditions are not met. Those three tests are these. Is the change necessary? Is it proportionate? Is it beneficial? Let me deal first with the John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): It is question of necessity. The problem of other students, good to follow the Chair of the Select Committee. I fellow pupils, teachers and staff not knowing about the hope the constructive and cross-party description that conditions that many children may have makes managing he has given of the passage of the Bill so far means that, those conditions more difficult. Often it also holds as the Bill goes into the other House, many of the children back at school and it may sometimes even put amendments that we have discussed today, which clearly their health at risk, so better provision, better support need to be made, will be made. and a better policy framework are needed. Before he spoke, we heard two strong—including one This is not just about children who suffer from diabetes. long—speeches on special educational needs. I am not The Health Conditions in Schools Alliance has said going to speak up for children with special educational that more than 1 million children suffer from conditions needs. Instead I would like to speak up for children with as wide-ranging as diabetes, asthma, heart disease or specific health conditions and, in particular, to lend my epilepsy, or are at risk of severe allergic reactions and support to new clause 8, which was first tabled in anaphylaxis. This is a widespread problem that is largely Committee by my hon. Friend the Member for Washington hidden. Almost half the children who suffer from asthma and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) and now stands have problems joining in fully in general lessons or even in the name of the hon. Member for Torbay (Mr Sanders). going on school trips. More than a third of children Four years ago, I met an inspiring young woman with diabetes say that one or both of their parents have called Emma Smith. She was 12 years old, from Dalton had to give up work entirely or cut back their work to in Rotherham, and I was her MP. She was on a lobby support them at school. Finally, almost two thirds—just for Diabetes UK to the House. I met her here, and met under 60%—of schools that have children with diabetes her and her family at home. I also met a couple of other have no policy in place to guide staff on the matter of young children and students at school in Rotherham injections on the premises. who were suffering from diabetes. They described a lack of recognition and appreciation by staff at school of Mr Jim Cunningham: My right hon. Friend will recall their condition and a lack of knowledge about what they that, in addition to educating teachers about children’s had to do to manage it for themselves. They described a conditions, one of the things I proposed in my ten-minute suspicion, sometimes, of the needles they had to use to rule Bill some years ago was the creation of school inject insulin. Occasionally there was nowhere for them clusters, which would involve somebody with medical to do those injections during the school day. They also experience from the national health service as well as spoke of friends of theirs with similar problems who teachers. They would perhaps give talks or inspect the had been forbidden from eating or going to the toilet facilities every so often to ensure that teachers were during lessons when they needed to because of their adequately trained. condition. I pledged my support to Emma Smith and her campaign, as I did to the ten-minute rule Bill of John Healey: I backed my hon. Friend’s Bill and I my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry South remember it. Essentially, it aimed to set standards of (Mr Cunningham), which he introduced around that support that all schools should have in place and, as I time. I thought that my hon. Friend could not be here recall, to require Ofsted to monitor and inspect whether today, which is why I am in his place, but I am glad to they were being met. see that he has come into the Chamber. Finally on the question of whether an amendment is necessary, the framework of legislation and guidance already in place—the “Managing medicines in school” Mark Tami: My right hon. Friend is making a powerful guidance, the Equality Act 2010 or even the Children case. Does he agree that it is not just about staff? We Act 1989—is often said to be sufficient, but these problems need to ensure that children—particularly primary school are so widespread for so many children that clearly the children, who can be scared if they do not know what is system as it stands is not working and something else is going on—have explained to them why a child has to be necessary. treated in a certain way. Children can be frightened and misunderstand what is happening. That brings me to my second point: is the proposed change proportionate? It is simply indefensible to argue that parents should have recourse to invoke the 2010 John Healey: My good and hon. Friend knows exactly Act or the 1989 Act to get support for their kids at what he is talking about and he is right. This is not school. That is disproportionate. New clause 8 does not simply about staff; it is about other students and pupils propose a new policy obligation or new standards for understanding better the conditions and health problems national Government, nor would it require local authorities 207 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 208 to act. It would not even require health bodies to act, arising from diabetes. For example, a child experiencing other than to support schools. What new clause 8 hyperglycemia is at risk of diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially proposes is that a school should have fatal complication. More than 3,000 children experience “a duty to produce and implement a medical conditions policy this every year, at significant cost to the health care that defines how it plans to support the needs of children with system and obviously considerable anxiety to parents specified health conditions”— and families, most tragically in the 2% of cases that no more, no less. In other words, schools should have result in death. Anything we can do to reduce this well-judged, proportionate policies, pitched at where prevalence must be imperative. the challenge is greatest and the potential gain most There are more general problems, however. All too important—that is, in the culture, understanding, practice often, schools do not have adequate plans in place to and sympathy found in schools. We are talking about a deal with the day-to-day needs of those with long-term policy developed in schools, for schools and by schools, conditions. That leads to children being made to feel with the support of health bodies and local authorities separate and neglected, leaving them more open to behind them. bullying, and can also have a detrimental impact on I have addressed whether the proposed change is their education. Diabetes and other long-term conditions necessary and proportionate, but is it beneficial? It should have no impact on a child’s ability to learn—they would be beneficial if children could go to school do not have special educational needs—but if those confident in the knowledge that those around them conditions are not managed appropriately in the classroom, understood their conditions. It would be likely to make they will impede a child’s education. managing their conditions easier, allow them to play a Ideally, schools should acknowledge that they are much fuller part in the life of the school and fulfil more looking after a wide range of pupils with varying needs, of their potential, reduce the requirement on parents to and staff should have in place a robust plan that has give up or reduce their work—and, arguably therefore, been agreed with parents and health care professionals to step up their dependence on the state to support their to prevent the time-consuming and expensive problems kids in school—and reduce the demands on the NHS, that will be inevitable without this investment in planning. so the proposal is beneficial as well. I fully anticipate the Minister saying that it is up to Is this change necessary? Yes. Is it proportionate? Yes. schools to decide how to achieve this, and I agree, but Is it beneficial? Yes, and if the Minister continues to we also have a responsibility at national level to ensure resist it, he will have to demonstrate that it is unnecessary, that schools do that, and that parents have the scope to disproportionate and either detrimental or not beneficial. force the reappraisal of a situation if it is found wanting. I want our children who have special health conditions The plans need to be put in place on an individual basis, to be able to enjoy school to the full, to fulfil their however. It is striking that the subject that the public potential and to feel confident that those around them most frequently raise with me, as chairman of the know what to do because they understand their conditions. all-party parliamentary group on a condition that affects Finally, I want to leave the House with the words that more than 3 million adults, is the poor level of support I always remember Emma Smith saying to me: “I would offered in schools to the 30,000 children who are also feel a lot happier if people at school knew what to do if affected by it. for any reason I was unable to treat myself.” That seems to be the very least that this House and this legislation Mr Jim Cunningham: I congratulate the hon. Gentleman should provide. on tabling the new clause. He will be aware that there are specialist colleges, such as Hereward college in Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD): It is a pleasure to Coventry, that would benefit from his proposals. Further follow the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne down the road, some of these children will have the (John Healey), who summed up what many parents at confidence to go into further education, and they will various lobbies of this place have said over a number of particularly benefit from those specialist colleges. In years, not least last week, when children with type 1 that context, the Government should look again at the diabetes came to Parliament to lobby their Members. cuts to the budgets for those colleges. New clause 8 stands in my name and that of other hon. Members and was originally tabled by the hon. Mr Sanders: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs helpful intervention. I also congratulate him on the Hodgson). It seeks to improve the consideration that ten-minute rule Bill on this subject that he introduced a schools give to students with long-term conditions, little while ago. including diabetes, epilepsy, asthma and many less prevalent Last week, I attended a diabetes event, and I heard an but equally serious illnesses. We have heard that around account from a parent from the north of England that 29,000 children in the UK have type 1 diabetes. Through succinctly summed up the experience of all too many my work as chair of the all-party group on diabetes, I parents, wherever they live. Her son was just starting have become painfully aware that, despite great primary school and, in the previous July, the diabetic improvements in recent years in care for young people specialist nurse had visited the school to put a necessary with diabetes, something of a blind spot remains in care plan in place. It was clear on the first day of school schools, with staff often unaware of the implications of that the plan was inadequate. According to the parent, the disease, let alone able to help children with their it was not worth the paper it was written on, and was condition. This leads to all sorts of problems that are, at certainly not suitable for a four-year-old. Importantly, root, preventable. it stated that the child should test his own blood levels— At the centre is the impact on child health. A school something he had never done before and something environment that does not include basic precautions or that no one would expect a four-year-old to have to do. simple awareness training can lead to complications The plan also had no guidelines for emergencies. 209 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 210

[Mr Sanders] and Nantwich (Mr Timpson), and of the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson). Despite the parents providing a new plan for the Our discussions were always undertaken in a consensual school, the child’s first six months of school were filled and collaborative manner. A lot of amendments were with phone calls home and teachers holding his hand tabled but many were not pressed to a vote because we throughout the day, even taking him out of the classroom were able to come to an agreement on them. I commend frequently as though he were a ticking time bomb. This the work done by the Minister in outlining exactly what caused a massive amount of stress and inconvenience to the Government were seeking to do in the Bill, so we the parents. Schools need to recognise that, beyond the could reach agreement on areas of particular concern health condition, these are normal children who need to to us. be treated normally but with sensible and reasonable I should also like to commend my hon. Friend the adjustments and awareness to maintain the normality Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland), who has as much as possible. done an enormous amount of work in the field of special educational needs. He illustrated earlier the depth Mark Tami: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the of his knowledge and understanding, and he has done so-called special treatment that such children get, involving fantastic work to highlight the difficulties faced by missing lessons and sometimes taking days off school, parents and families in relation to assessment. In Committee, can sometimes lead other children to believe that they we often used the words “fight” and “battle” when are different, and that that perception of special treatment discussing the struggles that families went through to can lead to bullying? ensure that their child had an appropriate assessment and statement to address their needs. I hope the Bill, Mr Sanders: Indeed; I referred to the danger of and the education, health and care plans, will remove bullying earlier. Diabetic children do not need to be some of that necessity to fight, and make things a great taken out of class; they simply need a hygienic environment deal easier. in which to test their blood sugar levels during the day, and to be allowed to eat in the classroom, or go outside In Committee, I mentioned a specific subject, and I to eat, in order to boost their blood sugar levels. It helps am pleased to see that the Secretary of State has taken it everyone if the staff understand those needs and explain up. My constituency has a significant number of military them to other pupils. In that way, the children can learn families who, by dint of their career paths, are frequently that many of us will have a medical condition—not moved around the country. A disproportionate number necessarily diabetes—at some time in our life. There is a of those families with children with special educational whole spectrum of medical conditions, and treating needs, having secured a statement in one part of the children who suffer from them separately is worse than country, are then moved elsewhere through no fault of providing for them within the mainstream and within their own. This can result in their having to go back to the normal school settings. All that is needed is a square one in the process. I am therefore delighted that willingness for schools to put in the effort and to look at new clause 9 takes account of that in seeking to make best practice while listening to parents. A reminder in the EHC plans far more portable, so that families who the Bill that that is important would go some way have already been through that struggle do not have to towards reassuring tens of thousands of anxious parents. revisit it. There are many reasons for a family moving. I have Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) mentioned military families because of my constituency (Con): Given your previous encouragement for speakers interest, but I have also done a massive amount of work in the debate to be brief, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will with an organisation called Ambitious about Autism, try to do so. It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member which runs the excellent TreeHouse school in north for Torbay (Mr Sanders), who has spoken on the specific London. In highlighting to me the difficulties that families issue of diabetes in schools. I was contacted only last face if they seek to move to a different area, it has week by a family in Romsey whose four-year-old son is specifically mentioned the case of one young boy, due to start school in September. They had been told Mohammed. He is 12 years old, and has autism and that, should he feel a “hypo” coming on, it would be his complex learning difficulties. responsibility to get himself to the school office, where Mohammed’s family live in Westminster and he travels he could be tested and the appropriate treatment every day to the TreeHouse school, which is a considerable administered. distance away. His family were desperate to buy their I commend to the House the work of the Juvenile own property, and as Westminster is a phenomenally Diabetes Research Foundation in encouraging local expensive borough to live in, they were hoping to move education authorities to put in place protocols and care to another part of London. They felt constrained from plans so that schools can be made aware of the appropriate doing so, however, because they felt that if they left treatment and teachers can be properly informed about Westminster, where they had secured Mohammed’s addressing the problem. This is particularly important statement, they would have difficulty in ensuring that for those dealing with very young children, for whom their new borough would continue to provide for his needles and testing kits might still be a relatively strange education at TreeHouse school. Such was the importance and foreign concept. Older teenagers might have become to him of that school that they were not prepared to put accustomed to them. his education at risk. Instead, they have continued to rent a home in Westminster, even though their long-term 3.15 pm plan was to move out of the borough and further away. I want to take this opportunity to mention the work I promised to keep my comments brief, and I think I of the Bill Committee, of the Under-Secretary of State have managed to speak for only four minutes. I would for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe like to thank the Secretary of State and the Minister for 211 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 212 having tabled the new clause. Portability and an ability the close involvement of children and young people to recognise care plans across different local authorities with special educational needs and their parents in its will be of critical importance to all those families who development and review. have struggled to ensure that their children get the provision they need. On amendments 66 to 69, I can assure the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West and other hon. Members that the local offer will not be a speculative document. It will set out what the local Mr Timpson: I thank my hon. Friends the Members authority expects will actually be available. The local for South Swindon (Mr Buckland), for Romsey and authority does not have control of all the services set Southampton North (Caroline Nokes), for Beverley out in the local offer, so it can only set out what it and Holderness (Mr Stuart) and for Torbay (Mr Sanders) expects to be available. If it can only reflect what is and the hon. Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz) currently available, that will prevent the local offer from for the amendments they tabled. I thank in particular setting out, for example, what provision it expects to the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West become available in the near future. This could, for (Mrs Hodgson) for embodying in her approach the very example, include new provision in a school, which parents essence of this part of the Bill, in that she has demonstrated or young people will want to know about in advance. a lot of co-operation and constructive consultation and has, I suspect, sometimes strayed into the occasional bit On amendment 68, I agree that online communities of joint commissioning, which I welcome. I also thank can be a valuable way to socialise, and perhaps that is other Members who have spoken in this debate on the especially true for young people with special needs. SEN provisions. I will do my best to respond to the Only yesterday I had the opportunity to visit Springfield amendments and the key points that have been made. special school in my constituency. The children being educated there were keen to show me first their school’s Amendments 30, 46, 62 and 66 to 69 and new clause IT suite, where they had developed some important 21 are concerned with arrangements for improving local skills in a number of innovative ways. I agree that online provision. I hope I will be able to address the concerns communities have their dangers, and that young people that are behind amendment 30—as just raised by my should be equipped to socialise over the internet safely. hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton I repeat the commitment I gave in Committee: I will North—through regulations and the code of practice. consider including a reference to online communities in Draft regulations under clause 48 would require local the code, in the context of preparing for adulthood. I authorities to provide information, advice and support do not believe it is necessary to amend the Bill in order in relation to personal budgets, including information to achieve what Members want, but I think what I have about independent organisations. Draft regulations made said demonstrates the importance of this area both now under clause 36 would require local authorities to provide and in the future. any support they consider necessary for parents or young people to take part effectively in the education, Amendment 69 concerns minimum standards in the health and care assessment, and regulations made under local offer. The key to the success of the local offer in clause 30 would require local authorities to include in each area will be the transparency of information, and their local offer sources of information, advice and support the involvement of local parents, children and young for children and young people with special educational people in developing and reviewing the local offer. needs and their families. The indicative code of practice— Central prescription would stifle the very innovation which my hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon and responsiveness we want to see the local offer trigger, helpfully pointed out was made available in Committee and stipulating minimum standards for the local offer and proved invaluable as a consequence—clarifies that would weaken local accountability. They would constrain this should include information, advice and support parents’ ability to influence a local authority, which available in relation to personal budgets. could point to meeting minimum requirements to end further discussion. That is a potential “race to the I share the aim of my hon. Friend’s amendment 46, bottom” that we must avoid; my hon. Friend the Member which is to ensure that education and social care provision for South Swindon raised that point in Committee. I is sufficient to meet the needs of children and young hope that detail about what will be in the offer and the people with SEN and to promote improvements in that strength of the processes for agreeing it will reassure provision, but that should be balanced with the need to Members that such a potentially counter-productive retain local decision making; that point seemed to unite minimum standard is not necessary. the House in the debate we have just had. Local authorities, schools and other services must determine spending Amendment 62, from my hon. Friend the Member on provision for children and young people with special for Beverley and Holderness, the Chair of the Education educational needs, taking account of their legal Committee, reflects the view expressed by his Committee responsibilities. Clause 27(3) would require local authorities about the importance of parent carer forums, whose to consult a wide range of people and organisations in national network I believe I am meeting tomorrow. I reviewing provision, including, importantly, children share my hon. Friend’s views about the importance of and young people with special educational needs and parents helping to shape local policies for supporting their parents, but placing a specific legal duty on them children and young people with special educational to improve special educational and social care provision needs. The indicative SEN code of practice makes clear until everyone consulted agrees it is sufficient would be reference to that and to the value of parent carer impractical, as views of different people and groups forums, but as they are not legally constituted bodies we would inevitably differ. Local authorities will be able to cannot include them in the list in clause 28 of organisations reflect the outcomes of the reviews they undertake with which a local authority must consult when carrying under clause 27 in the local offer, which also requires out its functions under the Bill. 213 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 214

[Mr Timpson] of the point he makes. I am happy to continue to discuss that with him, but as things stand I am not Provision has been made in clause 27 for local authorities convinced that his amendment is necessary. to consult children and young people with special Amendment 37 seeks a specific duty on authorities to educational needs and parents of children with SEN, deliver social care provision in EHC plans. As I said in along with Committee, existing duties in section 17 of the Children “such other persons as the authority thinks appropriate”, Act 1989 provide important protections. I understand concerns that this is a general, not an individual duty, when carrying out their statutory duty to keep their but I fully expect that local authorities will provide care special educational provision and social care provision services to meet assessed needs. In the case of disabled under review. I am sure that local authorities will want children, the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons to consult parent carer forums as they carry out that Act 1970 applies, and once the authority is satisfied it is duty, which is reflected in the draft code of practice. necessary to provide support and assistance, it is required The SE7 pathfinder, for example, is working closely to do just that. I do not think it right to prioritise, as a with its local parent carer forums to develop the local matter of course, children with EHC plans over all offer, to ensure that it reflects the needs of children, other children in need, who would then risk being young people and parents. marginalised—I am thinking, for example, of children Turning to new clause 21, local authorities aim to suffering neglect or abuse. provide services close to home, and I know how important On amendment 39, I know that my hon. Friend it is for families for provision to be made locally. However, has concerns about clause 21, and my hon. Friend the as has been said, that is not always practical for those Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson), among others, who require specialist support that is available only in has also raised this issue. Clause 21(5) fulfils an undertaking very few places. Clause 27 requires local authorities to I gave during pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill that we consult children and young people with special educational would maintain existing protections, including case law. needs and their parents when they are reviewing their special The subsection was included to preserve the current educational provision and social care provision. Local position whereby, of course, there is no duty to secure authorities, clinical commissioning groups and NHS the health provision in plans. Amendment 39 goes England must develop effective ways of harnessing the further than current case law and would define all social views of their local communities, and they will undoubtedly care and health care provision made for a child or want to engage with Healthwatch organisations, patient young person with SEN as special educational provision, representative groups, parent partnerships, parent carer if it was in some way for the purposes of education or forums and other local voluntary organisations and training. community groups. Clause 30 requires local authorities to involve children and young people with special educational needs and 3.30 pm their parents in developing and reviewing the local I have looked again at clause 21, taking account of offer. That will ensure a continuing dialogue between the views put forward by my hon. Friend the Member local authorities and their partners, including children, for South Swindon and others. Under the broader, young people and families, and keep a focus on the need integrated assessments and plans in the Bill, decisions for local provision. I recently discussed these issues with will be between special educational, health and care Scope, which has a good deal of experience in this area, provision. Without clause 21(5) it may be difficult for a and undertook to consider how the guidance in the tribunal to say that although speech and language therapy SEN code of practice could best encourage the development is health care provision made by health care providers, of services that are responsive to local needs. it is in fact special educational provision. The clause also enables appeals to the tribunal in respect of health I shall now deal with amendments 44, 37 and 39, provision where it is defined as special educational tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon, provision, as now. However, as my hon. Friend said at which are all concerned with ensuring an integrated the end of his excellent contribution, we want to get approach to meeting the needs of children and young things right, so I am content to continue to listen to the people. I share the goal of amendment 44—integrated views expressed in the House, such as the wording health and social care support—but cannot agree that it suggested by my hon. Friend the Member for Beverley is the best way to achieve it. Under the Bill, the support and Holderness, and in the other place. that must be available to the child or young person is that reasonably required by his or her special educational On personal budgets, we debated amendment 70 in needs. Committee and I repeat the assurances I gave then. As I said to the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland Local authorities and health commissioners have the West in Committee, we will take full account of the power to include other social and health care if they feel findings of the pilot scheme as a discrete element of it is appropriate. So a child with special educational the pathfinder evaluation, and learning will inform the needs arising from cerebral palsy who needs a wheelchair SEN code of practice. I assure her that the cases we would have that in their plan. If the child developed an have seen to date do not show any negative impacts in unrelated minor infection, any prescribed medication the areas referred to in the amendment; they actually would not normally be included. Amendment 44 would show how local authorities can work with schools to add unnecessary bureaucracy and hinder pragmatic improve the quality of provision received without having decision making. I am alive to the case studies that my an impact on the other children and young people. As hon. Friend brought to the House’s attention and will I am sure she would agree, that is an encouraging look carefully at them in understanding the consequences picture. 215 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 216

Amendment 38 is a repeat of the probing amendment most cases authorities would just be providing information that my hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon on officer time costs. Publishing seemingly simple moved in Committee and of the proposed new clause 24 information on costs without proper context may well tabled by the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland lead to greater confusion, therefore, but I have no doubt West. In Committee, I set out the well-established complaint that the hon. Lady will want to return to that area in procedures for complaints about health and social care. due course. Widening the tribunal’s remit would not prevent the New clause 8, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member existing mechanisms from continuing to be available. for Torbay, and amendment 65, tabled by the hon. The effect of the amendment would be to add to the Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz), both concern routes of redress, rather than to simplify them. We are children with health conditions. It is right that every preserving the right to appeal to the tribunal about child with a long-term health need is entitled to a health and social care provision, where that is mainly high-quality education. Their needs must be identified for the purposes of education and training. While and addressed promptly, so that they can achieve their strengthening the role of health and social care in the full potential. Imposing further statutory duties on assessment process and laying a new duty to provide the schools to ensure that is not necessarily the answer, health provision set out in a plan, we have maintained however. the focus on special educational provision in the Bill and as was set out in the Green Paper. It is therefore The right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne right that the tribunal should continue to focus on (John Healey), in a powerful and passionate speech, dealing with SEN appeals, where its expertise lies. demonstrated an acute knowledge of life as a Minister and the response that he was likely receive as to current provision. The Education Act 2002 already places a Dan Rogerson: The logic throughout what the Minister duty on the governing body of a maintained school to has set out has been about bringing together providers promote the well-being of pupils and, as the right hon. to offer one point of contact with families and young Gentleman said, schools are already under a duty through people affected. If, as the pilots continue and this policy the Equality Act 2010 not to discriminate against pupils is brought into effect, it emerges that it might be preferable with long-term health problems that have an adverse for there to be some kind of unified appeal process, effect on their ability to carry out their normal day-to-day would there be the mechanism to bring that about activities. Nor should we require schools and further subsequently through secondary legislation? Alternatively, education institutions to request an EHC assessment for that to happen would it need to be in the Bill? for everyone with epilepsy or a related condition. In a recent written answer to a parliamentary question, Mr Timpson: My hon. Friend makes a point about I announced that the “managing medicines” guidance the importance to the parents and the young person of would be issued this year, which will further clarify having a single point of access into any complaints schools’ responsibilities. I am confident that it will procedure. That is why we are looking at how there can address the right hon. Gentleman’s concerns. However, be a single point of interface for them, providing them I take what he said extremely seriously and will look with the information and navigation they require to closely at the details of what he and others have proposed. find themselves in the right part of that complaints I would be more than happy to discuss these matters process. Clearly, as my hon. Friend the Member for with him as we consider how we can improve practice in South Swindon said, there are tribunal rules in place our schools, some of which is still below the level that and there are always practical ways in which we can we should be seeing. We know from figures cited by my look at trying to enmesh more clearly together the hon. Friend the Member for Torbay that the number of various strands in the complaints mechanisms. We need children affected by conditions that require support in to develop that through the pathfinders and, as we school is not small, so every effort needs to be made to hopefully reduce the number of cases that end up in the improve practice on the ground. tribunal system, see whether that has had an effect. We will keep that under close review. Mr Sanders: The statistics seem to show that while New clause 24, tabled by the hon. Member for there are provisions in previous legislation that are Washington and Sunderland West, was discussed in supposed to work, they are not working for large numbers Committee, following which I wrote clarifying what of children with these medical conditions. That is the information was already published. The effect of the point of new clause 8. new clause would be that details were published by individual case. It would not be appropriate to publish Mr Timpson: I understand the intention behind the information that could identify details of private cases. new clause, but when the raft of legislation directly or Clearly, we want to reduce contention. Publishing indirectly related to the point that my hon. Friend raises information on individual cases is likely to extend the is still not bringing about the required support for contention beyond the delivery of the tribunal’s judgment. children in our schools, one wonders whether additional Information would have to be published on the tribunal legislation is necessarily the answer. We are seeking to service and authorities’ costs, and that raises the question provide the best possible guidance to schools on managing whether information would also have to be published medicines, set against the current legislative framework; on the relative complexity of cases to justify what may and under the new Ofsted inspection of schools, safety be a proportionate expense. The wish to publish information is a key feature. on the cost to authorities may be based on the misapprehension that authorities usually engage legal Mr Graham Stuart: I find the Minister’s answer representation. The most recent figures show that authorities inadequate. It is shameful that successive Governments were legally represented at only 15% of hearings, and in have gone for so many years with a significant minority 217 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 218

[Mr Graham Stuart] Where a child has a plan that names a school as the appropriate environment in which to receive his or her of children simply not having their needs met in school. education, parents will still be able to decide to home- When they have a condition or a flare-up that requires educate; that is an important point. If they do, the local action, they get sent off to hospital, or their parents get authority must assure itself that the parents are providing called, whereas if the school had trained someone up, it an education in accordance with section 7 of the Education could meet that need. This is not good enough. The Act 1996—that is, a full-time education that is suitable Minister has done so much under the Bill; this is another for the child’s age, ability, aptitude and special educational area where there could be an historic, positive settlement needs. If the local authority is so assured, it will be coming out of the legislation. It would be a shame if the relieved of its duty to make the special educational opportunity were missed. provision set out in the plan, just as it is now with regard to statements. However, local authorities will Mr Timpson: I had been doing so well with my hon. continue to have the power to help parents to make Friend, throughout the day. He is quite right to continue suitable provision in the home by providing support to challenge us, and schools, on this point. The question services. To take on the right hon. Gentleman’s point, I that has to go back to schools is why some are able to would strongly encourage local authorities to consider manage medicines effectively and others are not. That exercising that power when making decisions about suggests to me that there is not necessarily a direct whether the provision being made by parents is suitable. relation to the legislative framework that they are working under, and that it is down to differences in practice and Mr Graham Stuart: My hon. Friend says that local to the school’s commitment to dealing with the issue. As authorities must assure themselves that parents are I say, I am not stopping the discussion at this juncture. I delivering the education in accordance with 1996 Act. I am sure that there will be other opportunities for us to do not think that that is the case. They have to act if explore what more we can do. Reissuing the guidance is they have reason to believe that parents are not providing an important step, because it will provide very clear suitable education. They have no such overarching duty advice to schools on how they should approach this to assure themselves that every single home educating important issue. We will follow that up closely, both parent is doing so. The parent, not the local authority, through Government channels and through Ofsted’s has primacy in the education of their child. The local work in its role as inspector. education authority acts only if it finds out that there is My hon. Friend tabled amendments to part 3 in a problem. It does not have to seek it. respect of children who are home-educated. I know, because we have discussed the issue, that he takes a keen interest in these matters, both as the chair of the all-party 3.45 pm parliamentary group on home education and as the Chair of the Select Committee on Education. He recently Mr Timpson: I hope that our differentiation is based wrote to the Secretary of State about the Bill’s implications simply on the semantics of some of the vocabulary that for home educators. He will receive a reply shortly. In is being used, but clearly we need to have absolute the meantime, I reassure him that the Bill will bring clarity on the role of each agency in the life of a child, benefits to all children and young people with special whether they are educated within the school sector or at educational needs, including those who are home-educated. home. I will write to my hon. Friend to ensure that he In particular, clause 19 says that in exercising their has chapter and verse on precisely that point. functions under this part of the Bill, local authorities I come now to amendments 60 and 6l. I understand have to have regard to parents’ views, wishes and feelings, from my hon. Friend that home educators are concerned which might, of course, include a wish for home education. that clause 23 will mean that local authorities will have Parents will still have the right to educate their children to assess every home educated child to see if they have at home. Where local authorities draw up education, SEN, which takes us back to the previous Parliament, health and care plans that say that home education is where we had many of these discussions. I can assure right for the child, the local authority will have a duty to him that this is not the case. Clause 23 sets out which arrange the special educational provision set out in the children and young people local authorities are responsible plan, in co-operation with the parents. for under this part of the Bill. These will be children and young people who have already been identified by Mr Tom Clarke: I was impressed by almost everything the authority or who have been brought to the authority’s that the Minister said until he got to the words, “local attention as having, or possibly having, SEN. There is authorities have to have regard to”. Does he not feel not that overarching forensic exercise of trying to locate that that is rather a weak way to challenge local authorities? each child. Is it possible that people will look at that in another Amendment 63 seeks to tie the definition of the place? suitability of any alternative arrangements that parents make for children with an EHC plan more closely to the Mr Timpson: As to the right hon. Gentleman’s second definition of parents’ right to home educate as set out in point, I am sure that they will; that is the beauty of the section 7 of the Education Act 1996. However, this is process that we find ourselves in. We are content that we unnecessary as the provision in the amendment is already have the right balance. We also need to be alive to the contained within the phrase “suitable alternative fact that home-educated children require support—this arrangements”, so does not need to be spelled out in goes to the earlier point about proportionality and this way. Similarly, while I understand the concern that reasonableness—that fits in with their education. Clearly, amendment 64 seeks to address, it is not necessary. every child’s needs have to be assessed, and local authorities Where a child has a plan that says that education should have that in mind. provided in the home is the right provision for the child, 219 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 220 the local authority could only cease the plan when it felt very successful system of support in the form of disabled it was no longer necessary to meet the child’s needs, as students’ allowance. DSAs are not means-tested, are set out in the legislation. awarded in addition to the standard package of support Where parents take a child out of school to home and do not have to be repaid. We should not seek to educate and are making suitable provision, as is the case duplicate or replace that system when it appears now with statements, the local authority will be under a predominantly to be working well. In the academic year duty to review the plan annually to ensure that the 2010-11, DSA provided 47,400 full-time students with provision that the parents are making continues to be support totalling £109.2 million. The Government also suitable. The local authority could cease to maintain the provided £13 million to HEIs in 2012-13 through the plan only where it was decided it was no longer needed disability premium to help them recruit and support to meet the child’s needs. Moreover, the new duty on disabled students, and in 2013-14 that figure will rise to commissioning bodies to arrange the health provision £15 million. in the plan and the greater expectation that the social However, I agree that we must improve the transition care provision will be made will mean that parents can to university. Draft regulations require that when a expect that these will continue to be provided. There is young person is within two years of leaving formal further scope within the code of practice to provide education a review of their EHC plan must set out clarity on these issues for local authorities, and no plans for helping them make a successful transition to doubt my hon. Friend will want, through his connections adulthood. We will make it clear in the code of practice with the home education lobby, to contribute to that that good transition planning includes sharing the EHC consultation, which will be happening later this year. plan with the university, with the young person’s consent; On amendments 40, 41, 42 and 43, I find myself ensuring that the young person is aware of DSA and completely agreeing once again with my hon. Friend the has made an early application so that support is in place Member for South Swindon that some young people when their university course begins, on which the hon. with special educational needs require more time to Member for Washington and Sunderland West shared complete the education that other young people have her experience with the Committee; and ensuring continuity already finished by the age of 18. The Bill rightly of health and care services where those continue to be enables them to do so, but we want to avoid the expectation required by the young person. In addition, we will work that every young person with SEN has an entitlement to with those conducting DSA assessments to ensure that education up to 25—a point that I think he accepted in they understand the EHC plans, as well as how they can Committee—regardless of whether they are ready to, or assist and inform the assessment and ensure that details have already made, a successful transition into adult of DSA are included in the local offer so that all young life. The Education Committee recommended that we people thinking of applying to university are aware of clarify whether there is an entitlement to special education the support available to them. provision up to age 25. The requirement to have regard Under proposals in the Care Bill, which is currently to age makes it clear that there is not. However, I can in Committee in the other place, 18-year-olds with categorically assure my hon. Friend that no young eligible needs will receive a statutory care and support person who needs an education, health and care plan to plan. The new legislation will ensure that there is no gap complete or consolidate their learning can be denied in provision as young people make the transition from one just because they are over 18. Local authorities children’s services to adult services and, when they must rightly consider a range of matters in coming to move from one local authority area to another, that the these important decisions. new authority continues to meet their needs until it has Clause 45(3) requires local authorities to consider undertaken its own assessment. whether the educational outcomes specified in the plan With regard to amendment 47, I agree with my hon. have been achieved when it is deciding whether it should Friend the Member for South Swindon that all young cease to maintain a plan. The indicative code of practice, offenders, including those with SEN, need to receive the at section 6.18, says: right support and access to education, both in custody “local authorities must not simply cease to maintain plans once a and when they return to their communities. Since our young person reaches 18”. debate in Committee, I have considered the issue further They should consider whether young people have met and remain of the view that clause 69 is necessary, not their agreed outcomes, whether continued education because we are not committed to supporting young will help them achieve those outcomes, and whether the offenders, but because it prevents our legislation from young person wants to stay in education. Of course, in coming into conflict with existing comprehensive statutory what we hope will be rare instances, a young person provisions governing how education support is delivered may appeal against a decision to cease their plan, a step in custody, as set out in the Apprenticeship, Skills, forward from the current system. Children and Learning Act 2009. My hon. Friend also tabled amendments 45 and 48. My hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon will Securing a place at university is a positive outcome for know that the duties placed on local authorities by that any young person, and we are right to have high aspirations legislation are currently fulfilled through the contracts for children and young people with SEN and disabilities. held by the Education Funding Agency and that local However, it does not follow that higher education authorities are often not involved. The Ministry of institutions must be part of this Bill. Local authorities Justice, which funds that arrangement, is clear that the are not responsible for the education of young people in current system is not working, which is why it recently higher education and it would be unreasonable to hold consulted on transformational reforms to how education them accountable for securing special education provision and support in youth custody should be delivered in while the young person is there. As my hon. Friend has future. I have ensured that I have been kept in close already noted, the higher education sector has its own contact with Justice Ministers so that the education 221 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 222

[Mr Timpson] date during pre-legislative scrutiny. The Bill delivers on their recommendation that the draft should be subject element for children—not only those with SEN, but to consultation and approved by Parliament using the others in the care system and elsewhere—is being properly negative resolution procedure. This brings the code into considered as part of the review. line with other statutory codes, such as the school admissions code, and enables an appropriate level of Mr Buckland: Will my hon. Friend undertake to parliamentary scrutiny. ensure that when the Bill goes to the other place a This debate has continued the good faith that has careful eye is kept on clause 69 and that the Ministry of been a hallmark of the progress of this part of the Bill. Justice moves in a way that is properly co-ordinated so Given what I have said, I hope that hon. Members will that we do not end up with the nightmare scenario of feel sufficiently assured not to press their amendments. those young people simply falling through the gap? Question put and agreed to. New clause 9 accordingly read a Second time, and Mr Timpson: I strongly share my hon. Friend’s view. I added to the Bill. want to make progress on that, both in my Department and across Government. The commitment I gave him earlier will continue as the Bill moves on and other New Clause 10 work is done by the Ministry of Justice on the consultation it has carried out, because it is important that we make CHILDCARE COSTS SCHEME: PREPARATORY as much progress on that as possible at an important EXPENDITURE stage of development in many of our institutions and ‘The Commissioners for Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs within the secure estate. may incur expenditure in preparing for the introduction of a Clause 69 also plays an important technical function scheme for providing assistance in respect of the costs of by disapplying duties with the SEN clauses that it childcare.’.—(Elizabeth Truss.) would be impractical to deliver while a young offender Brought up, and read the First time. is in custody. For those reasons, I do not agree that we can simply remove the clause ahead of the significant The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education reforms to education in custody that the Ministry of (Elizabeth Truss): I beg to move, That the clause be read Justice is considering and the resulting changes that a Second time. might need to be made to existing legislation. However, I have sought to reassure my hon. Friend the Member Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With this it for South Swindon and hope that provides him with will be convenient to discuss new clause 6—Staff to some confidence as we move forward. child ratios: Ofsted-registered childminder settings— Turning to amendments 71 and 72, tabled by the hon. ‘(1) This section applies to Ofsted-registered childminder Member for Washington and Sunderland West, we are settings. continuing to strengthen our understanding of young (2) The ratio of staff to children under the age of eight must people’s post-16 educational outcomes. The Department be no less than one to six, where— for Education will be publishing destination data on (a) a maximum of three children may be young children; students with SEN at key stage 4 before the summer (b) a maximum of one child is under the age of one. break, and later in the year for those at key stage 5. The (3) Any care provided by childminders for older children must Department for Business, Innovation and Skills already not adversely affect the care of children receiving early years publishes data on participation and attainment in further provision. education by students with SEN aged 19 and over, and (4) If a childminder can demonstrate to parents, carers and that will continue. I do not think that it is necessary to inspectors, that the individual needs of all the children are being place additional reporting requirements on the further met, then in addition to the ratio set out in subsection (2), they education sector when those data are already being may also care for— made public. However, as I have said previously, I am (a) babies who are siblings of the children referred to in sure that she will continue to press that point as the Bill subsection (2), or moves on to the other place. (b) their own baby. On amendments 73 to 75, we will ensure that any (5) If children aged between four and five years only attend the code of practice laid before Parliament has been subject childminding setting outside of normal school hours or the to proper consultation and that Parliament is given the normal school term time, they may be cared for at the same time opportunity to scrutinise new or updated versions. as three other young children, provided that at no time the ratio of staff to children under the age of eight exceeds one to six. Clause 67(2) already ensures that the Secretary of State carries out sensible and proper consultation on the code (6) If a childminder employs an assistant or works with another childminder, each childminder or assistant may care for of practice. We intend to publish a draft code of practice the number of children permitted by the ratios specified in on the Department’s website for public consultation in subsections (2), (4), and (5). the autumn of this year and to give ample time for (7) Children may only be left in the sole care of a childminder’s comment, over and above the draft that we provided for assistant for two hours in a single day. the purposes of Committee. If we did not consult appropriately, there would be every reason for this (8) Childminders must obtain the permission of a child’s parents or carers before that child can be left in the sole care of a House or the other place to resolve not to approve the childminder’s assistant. code. (9) The ratios in subsections (2), (4) and (5) apply to The Education Committee considered the careful childminders providing overnight care, provided that the children balance between proper consultation and parliamentary are continuously monitored, which may be through the use of scrutiny and keeping the SEN code of practice up to electronic equipment. 223 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 224

(10) For the purposes of this section a child is— (a) no member of staff with Qualified Teacher status, (a) a “young child” up until 1 September following his or Early Years Professional status or other full and her fifth birthday. relevant level 6 qualification; (b) an “older child” after the 1 September following his or (b) no instructor; or her fifth birthday.’. (c) no suitably qualified overseas-trained teacher working New clause 7—Staff to child ratios: Ofsted-registered directly with the children, for children aged three and non-domestic childcare settings— over— (i) the ratio of staff to children must be no less than ‘(1) This section applies to Ofsted-registered, non-domestic one to eight; childcare settings. (ii) at least one other member of staff must hold a full (2) For children aged under two— and relevant level 3 qualification, and (a) the ratio of staff to children must be no less than one (iii) at least one other member of staff must hold a full to three; and relevant level 2 qualification. (b) at least one member of staff must hold a full and relevant level 3 qualification, and must be suitably (8) In maintained nursery schools and nursery classes in experienced in working with children under two; maintained schools (except reception classes)— (c) at least half of all other members of staff must hold a (a) the ratio of staff to children must be no less than one full and relevant level 2 qualification; to 13; (d) at least half of all members of staff must have received (b) at least one member of staff must be a school teacher training in care for babies; and as defined by subsection 122(3) [Power to prescribe (e) where there is a dedicated area solely for children under pay and conditions] of the Education Act 2002 and two years old, the member of staff in charge of that Schedule 2 to the Education (School Teachers’ area must, in the judgement of their employer, have Qualifications) (England) Regulations 2003; and suitable experience of working with children under (c) at least one other member of staff must hold a full and two years old. relevant level 3 qualification. (3) For children between the ages of two and three— (9) The Secretary of State may make provision in statutory (a) the ratio of staff to children must be no less than one guidance to— to four; (a) define qualifications as “full and relevant”; and (b) at least one member of staff must hold a full and (b) define “suitable experience” for those working with relevant level 3 qualification, and children under two. (c) at least half of all other members of staff must hold a (10) If HM Chief Inspector of Education is concerned about full and relevant level 2 qualification; the quality of provision or the safety and well-being of children (4) Where there is registered early years provision, which in a setting he may impose different ratios.’. operates between 8 am and 4 pm, and a member of staff with Qualified Teacher status, Early Years Professional status or other Amendment 76, in clause 73, page 50, line 16, at full and relevant level 6 qualification is working directly with the beginning insert ‘If, after a consultation period of not children, for children aged three and over— less than three months, and the publication of a response (a) the ratio of staff to children must be no less than one to the consultation, the Secretary of State is satisfied to 13; and with the provisions, he may make an order so that’. (b) at least one member of staff must hold a full and Amendment 77, in page 50, line 29, leave out clause 75. relevant level 3 qualification. Government amendment 28. (5) Where there is registered early years provision, which operates outside the hours of 8 am and 4 pm, and between the Elizabeth Truss: I wish to speak to new clause 10, hours of 8 am and 4 pm, where a member of staff with Qualified Teacher status, Early Years Professional status or other full and which introduces paving legislation to allow Her Majesty’s relevant level 6 qualification is not working directly with the Revenue and Customs to begin to set up tax-free child children, for children aged three and over— care, and amendment 28, which is a minor and technical (a) the ratio of staff to children must be no less than one amendment relating to the Legal Aid, Sentencing and to eight; Punishment of Offenders Act 2012. (b) at least one member of staff must hold a full and First, I will comment on new clauses 6 and 7. As the relevant level 3 qualification, and House knows, we have proposals, on which we have (c) at least half of all other staff must hold a full and consulted, for providers with highly qualified staff to be relevant level 2 qualification; able to operate more flexible staff-to-child ratios, in line (6) In independent schools where— with best practice in leading European countries such (a) a member of staff with Qualified Teacher status, Early as France, Holland and Germany. I highlight the fact Years Professional status or other full and relevant that these proposals would be entirely optional for level 6 qualification; nurseries and are about empowering the front line. (b) an instructor; or The proposals received support from, among others, (c) a suitably qualified overseas-trained teacher is working Sir Martin Narey, formerly of Barnado’s, and Sir Michael directly with the children, for children aged three and Wilshaw of Ofsted. I firmly believe that these flexibilities over— would allow nurseries to offer more choice of high-quality (i) for classes where the majority of children will reach the age of five or older within the school year, the child care places to parents, invest additional revenue in ratio of staff to children must be no less than one attracting the best staff, and reduce costs for parents. to 30; However, as I made clear on the media this morning, it (ii) for all other classes the ratio of staff to children has not been possible to reach cross-Government agreement, must be no less than one to 13; and so we are not proceeding with this reform. (iii) at least one other member of staff must hold a full That will not stop me working to make affordable, and relevant level 3 qualification. quality child care available to all. I am absolutely committed (7) In independent schools where there is— to this goal. 225 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 226

Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Will Elizabeth Truss: I thank my hon. Friend for his point. the hon. Lady give way? Other countries in Europe have flexibility and lower costs for child care. We are seeking to replicate some of Elizabeth Truss: This is a matter of pressing need, their other reforms, and that is what I want to address. and we are taking forward the following proposals: One of the issues is that the UK has some of the introducing early-years educator and early-years teacher lowest staff salaries in Europe. Child care workers here qualifications; introducing tax-free child care; ensuring earn £6.60 an hour on average, which is barely above the that more money for child care goes to the front line; minimum wage. Annual earnings are £13,000, which is increasing the supply of childminders through the well below the averages of £16,000 in France, £20,000 in establishment of childminder agencies; and making it Denmark and £22,000 in Sweden. We must reform the easier for schools to take two-year-olds in their nurseries. supply and funding of child care. If we do not, it will remain expensive and parents will struggle to combine Mr Sheerman: Will the hon. Lady give way? work and family or find themselves cobbling together care, which is difficult and inconvenient. I know of Elizabeth Truss: The current childcare system is not some families where parents work alternating shifts to working for parents. The real cost of child care has risen cover their care responsibilities. I want those families to by 77% in real terms since 2003. Families in England have good alternatives. pay some of the highest costs in the world; some spend Dual-income families are now the norm across the 27% of net family income on child care. In comparison, developed world because of our changing society and parents in France spend just 11% of their income on economy. In Britain, two thirds of mothers go out to child care. work and many fathers also seek to combine family and work life. If we want parents to have good choices, we Mr Sheerman: Will the hon. Lady give way on that have to get better value for money for the £5 billion that point? the Government spend. International comparisons show that we spend the same proportion of GDP on public support for child care and early years as France and Elizabeth Truss: I give way to the hon. Gentleman. more than Germany, yet, as I have said, parents here pay double the cost that parents pay in countries such Mr Sheerman: I hope that the hon. Lady does not as France and Germany, and I do not think that that is think I am trying to be disruptive. I was enjoying what right. she said, but I want to get to the heart of it. She said that the Government are not proceeding with the other Mr Sheerman: I would be the last person to volunteer proposals, which should of course have due consideration. to defend the leader of the Liberal Democrats, but At the moment, child care in this country is too expensive, perhaps he was not sure about the overall, holistic and very many women find it a great burden to be able analysis of what is going wrong. We pay more, it costs to afford it as compared with those in other countries, more and early-years carers are paid rubbish salaries, especially in Europe. Will the proposals that she is left while many settings do not have a graduate in employment, with do something about that? which always lifts the quality. What is the reason for that? There must be one. What do the advisers and Elizabeth Truss: I completely agree that we have very researchers suggest? high child care costs and I will do everything I can, where we can secure cross-Government agreement, to Elizabeth Truss: There are, of course, various reasons, address that. I want to outline some of our proposals. many of which relate to the history of how child care systems have developed in different countries. France, Mr Graham Stuart: I think there is merit in the work for example, has a long tradition of the école maternelle, my hon. Friend has done and I pay tribute to her for the which involves structured, teacher-led learning from an effort and energy she has put into it. I am disappointed early age. That has been shown to improve outcomes for that it has been brought to a halt. Will she confirm that children, particularly those from the lowest income the Deputy Prime Minister agreed to the proposals backgrounds. Our reforms seek to make sure that high initially, only to renege on that agreement later? quality, highly qualified professionals go into early years, and to try to adjust the differential between early years 4pm and primary school salaries. I will come on to that later. Parents need to know that they can access high-quality Elizabeth Truss: I thank my hon. Friend for his point. care. The research is clear: high-quality early learning It is true that the reason we are not proceeding with the experiences boost children’s attainment throughout their proposals is that we have failed to secure cross-Government education. There are many excellent nurseries that provide agreement. stimulating, structured learning opportunities for young As I have said, the current child care system is not children, which help them to prepare for school. However, working for parents and the costs are very high. there is much more to do. Anyone who works with children needs a wide range Mr Stuart: May I confirm my understanding that the of qualities, not all of which can be quantified by Deputy Prime Minister signed up to this but later, for degrees or diplomas. However, that does not undermine political or other reasons—who knows?—withdrew his the case for greater skills and better qualifications. In support? That is shameful and it could lead to less future, there will be two qualified roles: early years flexibility in a child care system that lacks quality and is educator and early years teacher. Graduate leaders are too expensive. already having a positive impact. Almost 12,000 early 227 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 228 years professionals are trained to deliver high-quality In addition to improving the supply of early years early education and care for pre-school children. Building educators and teachers into child care, we are reforming on that legacy, early years teachers will be specialists in child care funding. The tax-free child care scheme will early childhood development who are trained to work provide 2.5 million families with financial support towards with babies and young children. We want to see more their formal child care costs. That is an expansion on crossover between teachers in primary and early years the current system and, in the majority of cases, will so that there is a continuum of education, rather than provide a more generous amount. two separate silos. Unfortunately, under the current employer-supported The training programme for early years teachers begins child care voucher scheme, which was introduced by the this September. Trainees will have to meet the same previous Government, the question of who receives requirements as primary school trainee teachers. They support is arbitrary. It is also highly inefficient, with must have a degree and will need to pass the English 33% of the total amount being spent on overheads. At and maths tests. The National College for Teaching and present, only 5% of employers offer employer-supported Leadership has consulted on the new teacher standards child care, and only a fifth of employees are eligible for for early years, which will be published in July. it. Those who are self-employed do not have access to it, We are extending the reach of Teach First, which has and whether a parent can or cannot get it is a lottery. been successful in bringing talented new people into Strangely, as more than one parent can claim employer- schools. From this September, it will include teaching supported child care, in some cases there are two claimants three and four-year-olds for the first time. Teach First for one child. That means that the costs for one child attracts some of the most talented and ambitious graduates could be covered more than for a single parent with in the country, many of whom might not otherwise have several children, and that is neither a sensible nor fair considered working with young children. They can make way to continue. a big contribution, especially in areas of disadvantage. Our new tax-free child care scheme will resolve those anomalies. It will be available to any working family, We also want to raise the standards of practitioners except where one or both earners pay the additional who do not have degrees. Early years educators will be rate of income tax. It will be on a per-child basis and qualified at level 3. Early education qualifications have include the self-employed and those on the national been far too diffuse and lacking in rigour, and there are minimum wage. Tax-free child care means that around hundreds of existing and historical early years qualifications. 2.5 million families will now have access to support. We are addressing that failure. The National College for That support will be worth the same as the basic rate of Teaching and Leadership has consulted on new criteria income tax at 20% of costs, making child care costs for level 3 qualifications and will publish them shortly. effectively tax free. It will mean that the average family Using those criteria, awarding organisations will develop with two children will receive up to £2,400 each year. high-quality qualifications to be introduced in September Those on lower incomes will continue to have 70% of 2014. The minimum entry standard for the qualifications their child care costs paid through tax credits and, in will be grade C at GCSE in English and maths. future, universal credit, and there will be an additional Apprenticeships will offer a high-quality route to £200 million to help those in receipt of universal credit becoming an early years educator. They will last 20 months ensure that work always pays. on average and combine employment with study towards We are not introducing the tax-free child care scheme recognised qualifications through various routes, including now. The Government have been in discussions with further education colleges. interested parties since the announcement of the scheme, and will launch a formal consultation document shortly. Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): The consultation will last 12 weeks, and the Government Will the new qualifications, particularly those for early will proactively engage with those affected by the changes years educators, include training in early infant brain to discuss the issues. New clause 10 has been tabled to development and the crucial importance for childhood enable HMRC to start developing the scheme. Although development of a secure early bond? we will consult in full on its details, the basic tenets have been set out. To ensure that the scheme is in operation Elizabeth Truss: I thank my hon. Friend for that by the autumn 2015 target, work on its foundations contribution. The new qualifications will include the must commence now. study of early brain development and attachment theory to ensure that early years educators and teachers are up Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con): I thank my to date with the latest research and practice when they hon. Friend for providing information on the tax-free go into the profession fully. child care system. Will that replace all forms of child We have just announced a £2 million apprenticeship care currently in the market? I am thinking particularly bursary scheme for apprentice early years educators. of employee benefits for those who receive child care as Up to 1,000 bursary places will be available to people a benefit through the taxation of companies. who aspire to a career in early education. Each bursary will be worth £1,500 and an additional £300 will be Elizabeth Truss: I thank my hon. Friend for his available for further training. I am encouraged by the question and HMRC will consider that issue in its new view of David Pomfret, the principal of the college of consultation on this subject. West Anglia, that the bursaries will make it easier for Much of the work required is based on IT development people to begin a career in early education. The college because we want all parents to be able to access the has seen more people taking up such courses in recent service online. As with paving legislation before it, the years and we want to encourage more young people new clause will enable officials to start high-level discussions into this important profession. on IT and other development, and such discussions 229 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 230

[Elizabeth Truss] following the trials, the Department will consult fully on the key requirements to be placed on childminder could not take place without the new clause. The provision agencies in regulations. will not affect HMRC’s current operations or impede Amendment 28 is a technical amendment and introduces the development or scrutiny of the tax-free child care a transitional provision to cater for section 85 of the scheme, and there is no immediate cost of the scheme Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders that must be funded. Act 2012 coming into force on or before the day on This is a short and self-explanatory new clause that which the Bill receives Royal Assent. Section 85 is merely allows the Government to begin preliminary designed to bring about a change across the board in work ahead of the final design of the tax-free child care relation to the fines that magistrates courts can impose. scheme. The Bill is similar to those used by previous The amendment is needed to ensure that section 85 Governments, and takes no greater powers than in applies to the new offences relating to childminder those cases. Furthermore, the Government are clear agencies in schedule 4 as it applies to most other pre-existing that any changes required in primary legislation will offences. receive appropriate scrutiny. The new clause is minor Local authorities have an important role in early and technical in nature, and I look for support across education and child care. Local authorities and their the House to enable HMRC to start working on one of local agencies—family information services or Sure Start the Government’s priorities. children’s centres—have a vital part to play in helping In addition to reforming child care funding we must families who need support and in championing the also increase the supply of quality child care. The number interests of children. For example, local authorities of childminders has almost halved over the past 15 have made strong progress on securing early learning years, limiting parental choice in a flexible affordable for two-year-olds—some 55,000 children are already form of child care. Many parents want home-based benefiting from places throughout the country. I am care, especially in a child’s youngest years—I know my working with the Department of Health to ensure that hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire services are more closely integrated, and that the two- (Andrea Leadsom) is a great advocate of that. The Bill and-a-half-year-old check is in place in 2015, which will enables the introduction of childminder agencies, which help in that regard. We need to ensure that families get I believe will help to increase the number of childminders the help they need, and that a seamless service is provided in the market by removing barriers to entry and offering by children’s centres, with both the Department for an alternative to working completely independently. Education and the Department of Health contributing. Agencies will drive up quality—they will be required to I want local authorities to continue to work to attract support the training and development of childminders—and high-quality providers to their area, and to encourage make it easier for parents to access childminders and be schools to offer more nursery places and school-based assured of high-quality and flexible provision. child care. At present, there is a big gap between the proportions of outstanding providers in different local Andrea Leadsom: Will children’s centres be encouraged authority areas. As I have said, we are supporting to become childminder agencies? That would link two Ofsted with increased funds to increase the number of of the most critical structures available to support parents. Her Majesty’s inspectors. Sir Michael Wilshaw has Childminders often believe they do not have access to announced his intention to focus more on weaker providers. training or to the camaraderie of others in their field, so Ofsted is to trial an improvement programme with that could be a perfect combination. nurseries and pre-schools that are not yet “good” in three London boroughs in the next few weeks to show Elizabeth Truss: I agree with my hon. Friend and will how this approach might work. Local authorities are mention the types of organisations that could be involved also empowered to offer support and training. The in childminder agencies in due course. intention of the clause is to get rid of unnecessary bureaucracy, so that local authorities can focus on these 4.15 pm important functions. I want to see a shift from process Childminder agencies will be a one-stop shop, meaning and bureaucracy to focusing on what matters: outcomes that there will be a simpler process for childminders for children. entering the profession, without the large up-front costs Clause 75 repeals the bureaucratic requirement to that put many capable people off. We are working produce a child care sufficiency assessment every three closely with childminders and other providers, including years. Instead, local authorities will report annually to those interested in setting up agencies, and with Ofsted, elected Members and parents in a way that meets local as we develop details of how agencies might operate. circumstances—a move widely supported at consultation. I am delighted to inform the House that the Department I have recently published new guidance for Sure Start has written to more than 60 organisations that have children’s centres, and a consultation on a proposed expressed an interest in working with us to trial elements new funded early education guidance that reflects this of childminder agencies. There is a mix of organisations, approach. including businesses ranging from nursery chains to I have set out a range of steps the Government are individual childminders, and academies, maintained schools, taking to meet the challenge of high-quality and affordable national child care organisations, children’s centres, which child care for all families. my hon. Friend mentioned, and local authorities. The trials will begin later this summer. I will say more in the Mrs Hodgson: I rise to speak to new clauses 6 and coming weeks about the organisations taking part and 7 and amendments 76 and 77 in my name and in the the shape of the trials. Some hon. Members seek assurances name of my hon. Friends. Notwithstanding the welcome on our plans for consultation. I can confirm that, announcement the Minister has just made on behalf of 231 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 232 the Government—at last, I might add—we still wish to Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): My proceed with the new clauses as their premise and hon. Friend is highlighting all the reasons the proposal purpose are still valid. should not have gone forward, but it seems that it ended The Government have got themselves into a complete up as an internal argument on the Government Benches, shambles. With every passing week, it becomes more rather than being based on the opinion of experts. and more apparent that Ministers do not have a credible plan to tackle the child care crisis they have created. Mrs Hodgson: We would rather the Minister had Under this Government, parents are facing a triple come to the House sooner with a proper statement. In whammy: costs are rising faster than wages and even the time available this afternoon, that will not be possible, general inflation, with the average cost having risen by and obviously the House is not as well attended as it almost 20% since 2010; support from the Government would have been for a statement. It is disappointing, for those on tax credits has been cut, meaning that some then, that the announcement was not made in a statement families are up to £1,500 a year worse off; and there is a to a full House in the usual way. real struggle to find places in some areas owing to the cuts in supply-side subsidies and direct provision, such Craig Whittaker: I fully understand what the hon. as through children’s centres. Since the election, we have Lady is trying to achieve, but are these professionals lost almost 900 nurseries and more than 1,500 child and new clauses trying to say that the professionals in minders, and there are 500 fewer Sure Start children’s the sector are not professional or good enough to centres. decide themselves what ratios they deem to be safe, rather than what she deems to be safe? It is no wonder, therefore, that the Prime Minister panicked and plucked the Children’s Minister from the Mrs Hodgson: No. I will tell the hon. Gentleman what Back Benches to implement her ideas without even more of the professionals have said, however, and then bothering to check whether they were any good. The perhaps he will think on the strangeness of his intervention. main idea to come out of “More great childcare”— increasing the number of children each adult can look Purnima Tanuku of the National Day Nurseries after—is the worst one, and we are pleased to hear that Association said: it has been dropped. The Minister has been told “At the moment there is an option that nurseries can operate a categorically, most notably by advisers commissioned 1:13 ratio for over threes, if a person with a Level Six (degree by her own Department, that it was not a good idea level) qualification is working directly with the children. However, few nurseries take up this option, largely because it is not practical from the start, yet still she persisted with it. for one person to meet the needs of 13 children doing the type of If you will allow me, Mr Deputy Speaker, I would activities most nurseries offer.” like to place on record what those advisers said. Eva That was echoed by private nurseries and managers I Lloyd from the university of East London was have met across the country. They suggested that it can commissioned, along with Professor Helen Penn, by the often be a struggle providing quality care when operating Department to advise on child care practice from around at the current ratios. Finally, I will quote June O’Sullivan, the world, but her report is still being sat on seven chief executive of the London Early Years Foundation, months later. She said: which runs the nursery in the House of Commons: “The ratio relaxation is unlikely to reduce child care costs, but “It beggars belief that a junior Minister can wreak havoc on a may well drive down child care quality.” sector that has explained the negative consequences of her actions.” Professor Cathy Nutbrown, whose excellent report on Obviously the junior Minister has at last come to the qualifications in the sector was manipulated by the House and ditched her plans, which I am sure all the Government to argue for relaxing ratios, said: people I have quoted will be pleased to hear. Most important, though, parents will be most pleased to hear “Current proposals will shake the foundation of quality provision for young children. Watering down ratios regardless of the level today’s announcement. of qualifications held by staff, is likely to lead to worse, not ‘great’ childcare, and will undermine intentions to provide quality early Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): I too welcome learning experiences.” this U-turn by the Government today, but I welcome all You might be forgiven for thinking, Mr Deputy Speaker, the more my hon. Friend’s new clauses. Parents in my that child care providers, who in purely economic terms constituency are actually worried about the safety of could stand to benefit from these plans, would back their children under the Government’s proposals and them. Well, here is what some of the leading representatives are taking that anxiety to work. Some were even considering of child care providers have to say. giving up work, if it had been introduced, which would not have done our economy any good. Would support Neil Leitch from the Pre-School Learning Alliance, for the new clauses in fact do our economy good and whose survey of members found that 94% did not remove that anxiety from parents? believe they could maintain the quality of their current level of provision if staffing levels were reduced, said: Mrs Hodgson: I agree, which is why we are proceeding “We are absolutely appalled by this fixation to alter ratios… with the new clauses: we need to ensure that parents will This is a recipe for disaster.” never again face such a threat from a Minister who just In a separate release last week, he said: brings forward a mad idea out of the blue, against all the evidence and without any support from anyone— “There is no doubt that relaxing ratios would have lowered the whether professional, parent or expert—in the country. overall quality of childcare in this country. Not only would children have received less one-to-one support from childcare Both Mumsnet and Netmums have officially backed workers, but their well-being would also have been put at serious the Rewind on Ratios campaign, following widespread risk.” anger among parents—anger that the Minister felt the 233 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 234

[Mrs Hodgson] scheduled toilet breaks and long afternoon naps, and children being made to sit still at desks for so long that full force of when she did a web chat on Mumsnet in tennis balls had to be fixed to their chair legs so that February. A recent survey of parents by Bounty found they did not make a noise when they fidgeted. This is that 80% would not back the changes, even if they led to not what anyone with an understanding of child significantly cheaper child care bills. Of course, that is a development—[Interruption] He has photographs. They big if. are available on the internet. The Minister is disputing The Department has argued—the Minister did so what I am saying. She can look up the pictures, and I again in her opening remarks—that the measure could am sure that Neil Leitch would be more than happy to cut costs. The modelling information that the Department meet her to discuss what he saw in France. was forced to reveal said that it could cut costs by up to This is not what anyone with an understanding of 28%, but the modelling done to arrive at that figure was child development would describe as high-quality early branded by providers as a “work of fiction”. The modelling education. When we consider how stubbornly the Minister made wildly unrealistic assumptions of 1005 occupancy has refused to listen to those experts and child care for 52 weeks of the year, which no nursery ever has—speak bodies who repeatedly told her that that is what her to the nurseries and they will say that. It did not plans would mean, it is unsurprising that she has met account for any breaks, training sickness or holidays for with the tiny number of organisations who support her any of the staff. In one model—the one that said that it many more times than the major sector representatives would save parents up to 28%—staff would not even who disagree. have been paid any more money, which was supposed to be the whole point of these reforms, as the Minister Craig Whittaker: In view of the fact that the hon. again said in her opening remarks. Lady thought my last intervention a little strange, let me put it in a different way. Is she saying that the French 4.30 pm system is much more expensive, or does it have higher ratios and so is much more unsafe than our system? Busy Bees, which had initially supported the plans before saying it would not be changing its ratios, calculated that it could actually cost parents more if these changes Mrs Hodgson: Yes, the French system is of a lower were brought in. quality. That comes out in the OECD ratings of its nurseries, which are lower than those of the British Alison Seabeck: I thank my hon. Friend for giving system. When people meet French nursery providers, way again but this issue is really important. No they are often asked about our system. French nursery consideration seems to have been given to the need to providers look to emulate our model and cannot understand change premises, for example. My granddaughter was why we look to emulate their systems. [Interruption.] in a three-storey property, with babies, largely, at the That is what we are told, but again, I am more than top. The number of children in care on that floor could happy to hear evidence to the contrary. not be increased without something significant being Within 24 hours of the Deputy Prime Minister saying done to the building. I do not think that any of those that the policy was dead in the water, both the Leader of additional costs were considered. the House and the Prime Minister’s spokesperson denied that a decision had been taken. The Department for Mrs Hodgson: My hon. Friend makes a very valid Education said absolutely nothing for six days. We had point that has been raised with me many times. I know to wait six days for a Minister to come to the House and that the Secretary of State is getting a reputation for make a formal announcement confirming that the plans sloppy research, and I feel that this is another case of are indeed dead in the water. We were grateful to hear policy-based evidence from his Department. that at long last, even though we will not have time to Then, last week, we thought that common sense had discuss it in detail this afternoon. prevailed and the plans had been ditched. In fact, the Even though the Minister has said today that the Deputy Prime Minister said as much. In his briefing plans have been shelved, I do not have confidence that note to journalists, he set out in black and white the we have seen the last of them. After all, the Government complete lack of support and credible evidence that the are struggling to meet their target to provide free child Department for Education had for these reforms. This care for the 20% most disadvantaged two-year-olds. was a cause of great relief for the tens of thousands of With just three months before the policy is due to be parents and childcare professionals who were rightly introduced, a freedom of information survey that I have appalled by the lack of consideration of the needs of conducted shows that only 60% of councils have the young children in these plans. Indeed, given how out of capacity to provide the places, probably for some of touch with childcare practice in England the Minister the reasons cited a moment ago by my hon. Friend the appears to be, it is little wonder that, according to her Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck), own Department, she has visited just five English nurseries who is no longer in her place. The temptation for the in an official capacity since getting the job, compared Government just to click their fingers and increase the with seven settings in France. number of two-year-olds that each worker can care for I am not sure what those French nurseries were like, must be great. We should be clear: all they would have but the Minister regularly cites them as exemplars. I am to do is change statutory guidance, meaning that Parliament sure she will have seen that the chief executive of the would have no say. Pre-school Learning Alliance, Neil Leitch, commented In proposing the new clauses in this group, the Opposition last week on his visit to France. He highlighted staff not are giving this House a say. We have an opportunity to having the time to identify and support children with nip any such future reforms in the bud. We have an special educational needs, nursery age children having opportunity to send the strongest possible message to 235 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 236

Ministers that this House has listened to the tens of childcare costs survey from the Daycare Trust found thousands of parents and professionals who have been that childminder fees were already increasing by an campaigning against these changes, not to mention the average of more than 5%, year on year. Department’s own experts, and to say that we will not Of course, as all the parent surveys tell us, cost is a risk the safety of children in child care settings or the secondary issue to quality, and it is the end of individual quality of the early learning and development they inspections by Ofsted that is the most worrying reform. receive by allowing any such plans to go through Parents really value the fact that their childminder unchallenged. has proved their effectiveness to Ofsted. A National Childminding Association survey last year found that Elizabeth Truss: Does that mean that the hon. Lady 80% of parents thought that individual inspections thinks it was wrong for the previous Government to were important, and that 75% might not choose a increase ratios for three and four-year-olds in 2008? childminder without the reassurance of an individual inspection. Childminders value the inspections too: 80% Mrs Hodgson: I was not in the Department or in felt that moving to an agency model of inspection position in 2008, but if we raised ratios, I am sure it was would have a detrimental effect on their professionalism, done after full consultation and with the support and and they are obviously concerned that this would put backing of child care professionals, which is the exact parents off using them as well. opposite to now. That is the key difference, and I am Of course we want more childminders to set up—as I sure that people out there listening to this debate will said earlier, we have seen the number drop by more than know whether that is true and whether that case is a fair 1,500 since the election—but we should not be trying to comparison. achieve that by passing legislation that has the potential I sincerely hope that today the Deputy Prime Minister fundamentally to change the market, without first will put his MPs where his mouth is and lead his Liberal consulting on it and establishing consensus. I would Democrat Members into the Aye Lobby with Labour therefore welcome assurances from the Minister that when we seek the opinion of the House on these new the Government will set up such a consultation before clauses shortly, to ensure that in future no Secretary of the Bill completes its passage through the other place. State can force through, against the will of the House, changes such as those that the Minister has now dropped. Amendment 76 would require the Government to Dan Rogerson: It is a pleasure to follow the hon. take the novel step of consulting on the formation of Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs childminder agencies before they legislate to create them. Hodgson), as it enables me to clarify these matters from I hope that Ministers will learn the lessons from the the perspective of the Liberal Democrat Benches. It was furore over ratios. I should say from the outset that I do also good to see the Chair of the Education Committee, not have a dogmatic objection to childminder agencies, the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), particularly if they are voluntary. What the Government back in the Chamber, although he is no longer in his say they want to achieve through such agencies is all place. He led the charge on many of these issues, very sensible: greater co-operation and peer support for although I suspect that he might have been getting a bit childminders, as well as access to training and help with of gyp from the old leg, as he seemed uncharacteristically gaining bursaries. Childminder agencies will also be a bad tempered. single point of contact for parents who might need a I shall address my remarks to the new clauses and mix of child care solutions. These are all good things amendments in this group, as you would expect me to that make for a vibrant childminder sector, and are all do, Mr Deputy Speaker. I pay tribute to the Under-Secretary things that local authority childminder networks and of State for Education, the hon. Member for South family information services should be providing at the West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss) for the way in which she moment. That some of them are not is perhaps down to has gone into battle over the use of the taxation system the devastating cuts to the grant that local authorities to support the provision of child care. She has come up previously received from the Department for Education with a whole package of measures, which we will explore to pay for them. in the course of the debate, and it is a great achievement Since the publication of this Bill, the Department has to have secured some cash from the Treasury. I know been consulting on removing many of those duties from that colleagues in my party support her in this. She has local authorities—such as providing training and quality gone out there and done this, and I pay tribute to her improvement support—and this on top of the attempt for her achievement. New clause 10, in putting down in clause 75 to remove the duty to publish child care this marker in the Bill, represents an important step sufficiency reports, which our amendment 77 would forward in showing the Government’s commitment to block. All this seems to be a clear sign that the Government supporting parents who want access to good quality want local authorities almost completely removed from child care in order to allow them to go out to work, and the child care equation and that agencies are therefore to bring up their families in the way they aspire to. the preferred configuration for childminders. The hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland Given that the Minister has said that there will be no West talked about the rising cost of child care, but she direct funding from the Government for agencies to could have turned the clock back a bit further to when provide those services, the implication is that there will the previous Government were in power, because those be a cost to the childminder. That cost will in turn have costs rose hugely on their watch as well. This is nothing to be passed on to the parents, because most childminders new; it is a trend that has been going on for some time. I do not earn the sort of money that would allow them to therefore welcome the proposal to set out a framework soak up the kind of membership fee or commission that for investing more public money in supporting the cost we might expect an agency to demand. The most recent of child care for families who need it. 237 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 238

[Dan Rogerson] I was therefore intrigued to note that the Labour Opposition have tabled an amendment not to enact something that New clauses 6 and 7, tabled by the hon. Lady, cover was originally passed on their watch. an issue that has, as the Minister said, been settled for I understand the thinking behind Opposition the time being. This Government now have no plans to amendment 77 on the duty on local authorities to alter the ratios. They consulted on the proposal, and provide an assessment of child care places in their those who responded to the consultation were fairly locality. Having heard from the Minister about what is overwhelmingly against it. The Government have responded being proposed, however, and given the fact that the to that. The Minister clearly believes that there is a case consultation has found that they would prefer to do it to be made for such an alteration, however, and she will on an annual basis in a less bureaucratic way, I am continue to make that case in the run-up to the general persuaded that that is unnecessary, too. election if that remains Conservative party policy, but it is not the policy of the coalition Government to introduce We have therefore heard from the Government that such changes now. there is no proposal to change ratios, which I welcome. They are also putting in the key change, which the That debate will no doubt continue, but I welcome Minister has gone out and fought for, of more financial the fact that, on the basis of the consultation, the support in coming years for child care, and I welcome Government have chosen not to go ahead with the that, too. Therefore, I will not support any of the changes. In today’s statement to the House on GCSE Opposition amendments, but I am happy to support the reform, the Chair of the Select Committee praised the Government new clauses. Secretary of State for listening to the results of that consultation and being persuaded to take a different tack on some aspects of exam reform. The Secretary of Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ State did it in that case, and the Government have also Co-op): On new clause 10, the Minister made great play done it in this case. We should not criticise them for of introducing tax-free child care, but she should be that; listening and taking action based on a consultation clearer in her closing remarks about what exactly that is the purpose of a consultation. The debate will continue means, as I fear she is misdescribing something. What and we will see whether a further case can be made. For she seems to be proposing is that after people have the time being, that does not seem to have been the case. passed through many hoops, including having both It is not only the sector that was concerned about this; parents working and receiving certain levels of income, parents were, too. If those two important groups are 20% is paid, which is not tax-free for the higher rate expressing concern, it is very difficult to move ahead taxpayer. I want her to clarify this point: she talked with the policy. about those paying additional tax not qualifying, so will she explain what tax threshold this will and will not apply to, so people who might be affected can know 4.45 pm about that? The hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland Amazingly, this scheme has managed to unite The West is seeking to add measures that are entirely Daily Telegraph and the Labour party in criticism. That unnecessary. There are a number of things that any is some achievement, and I applaud the Minister on it, future Government might propose to do about child but it shows that there is a degree of muddle. The care with which we may be unhappy, but as those things scheme is for couples or single parents where both are not being proposed, it is utterly pointless to say we work, but there are many other questions about it—I have to have a vote on them now. We could have all sorts look forward to the regulations being laid so we can get of amendments to stop things that are not being proposed to the details. What about where one partner was working by the Government—an amendment to prevent child but is unemployed or sick and unable to work, perhaps care from taking place outdoors in the rain, for example— for a long period, or is retired, which is not beyond the but that is pointless. bounds of possibility? Does the Minister have any plans We all know what this is about. It is about the to extend this as a general policy to parents of over-fives? Opposition, as they are entitled to do—[Interruption.] A chef in my constituency on £15,000 or so a year Absolutely; it is about children, which is why the raised with me the challenges of getting child care out Government are not doing these things. These amendments, of hours, a situation faced by many people, both with on the other hand, are nothing to do with children. over-fives and with under-fives. I hope that she will give They are about trying to add something to the Bill so us some indication of her thinking on this matter. Will the Opposition can claim some kind of victory or try to she tell us when she is planning to lay regulations on drive a wedge between the two Government parties. this issue, so that we can all be alert in order to tackle That is what Opposition parties do, so that is absolutely that? fine, but there is no need to vote for amendments to On new clauses 6 and 7, I will be generous to the stop something that the Government are not proposing. Minister. She said that the fact that she has lost support— I will be disappointing the Opposition Front-Bench perhaps could not corral support across Whitehall—is team, therefore. not stopping her push for “affordable, quality child care Liberal Democrats policy is clear. We are not convinced available to all.” On that last sentence she and I are that the ratio change is necessary. [Interruption.] Absolutely united as one, but, sadly, I disagree with her approach. not; we can support the Government because the If that really was what was being proposed, I would be a Government are not making any change, so the Opposition greater supporter of hers, but I am concerned about proposal is unnecessary, as I have just set out. misrepresentation: little ideas presented as big solutions. Amendment 76 seeks to change the clause that enacts We need a longer-term vision about child care provision schedule 4 to the Childcare Act 2006, a provision that for our under-fives and our older children, and we must was put in place under the last Labour Government. ensure that we see that as an investment in those young 239 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 240 people and, in particular, in women, in enabling them to coming in, taking over, dominating in an area and work. However, this is not the time to get into that becoming a local monopoly? There is a real concern debate. about that. Will childminders have to join? The position On childminder agencies, I am not going to get into on that is unclear, so perhaps she will give us some the issue about ratios, because my hon. Friend the information on it. There is some benefit to professional Member for Washington and Sunderland West experience sharing and professional support, but not at (Mrs Hodgson) raised it very effectively. The proposal the costs that I have outlined. Will the Minister tell the was never popular. I was even stopped in the street House the timetable for the regulations, which she said about it in my constituency by parents and carers who would be coming very soon? were very concerned about it—it was that much of a I will leave my comments there, but this is an important worry. I echo what my hon. Friend the Member for issue. My constituency is one of the youngest in the Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) said about that worry country; over a fifth of residents are under 16. I think I being something that Ministers need to think about speak with some authority on their behalf. For them, when proposing ideas that have not been agreed properly the Bill, and these changes, make a very big difference. within their own Government, let alone anywhere else. Elizabeth Truss: We have had a wide-ranging debate I have some concerns about the proposals on agencies on the various child care issues, but one point that I for childminders, and I have referred to the parallel with think we can all agree on is that there is an urgent need older people’s care, where private agencies came in and for high-quality, affordable child care in this country. At reduced the quality of care. That is a legacy of the late the moment, many working families are struggling to Lady Thatcher’s years in government and it has not afford their child care, and I can assure the House that improved in all that time. I do not want private companies the Government are fully committed to improving the to come in, cream off a profit and cut the income of the situation. Tax-free child care, which is the key policy that we childminders, who, in my area, consider themselves as have been promoting in the Bill, will contribute to that. small businesses. The number of childminders has reduced because a lot were on the list for local authorities but I would particularly like to thank the hon. Member were not active, so as soon as that list was tidied up they for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) for his very dropped off it. A number of those to whom that happened constructive comments, particularly on the point about were poor quality and did not want to have the scrutiny our tax-free child care scheme. I want to reassure the of Ofsted or any other authority, because they were the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg “pile ’em high, stack ’em cheap” sort of childminder Hillier) that “tax-free” refers to the 20% that parents that the Minister seems to favour. will benefit by. The critical point is that it is open to many more families. Hackney childminders, a very professional group, are united about the achievements that they have personally I understand the hon. Members want to move on to brought about and the benefits for young people in my the next debate so, without further ado, I shall finish. area, and about the fact that the bad childminders have Question put and agreed to. been run out of town. We do not want to go back to New clause 10 accordingly read a Second time, and those bad old days. I am a mother of three and I know added to the Bill. that I can stand here in the House now only because of my excellent child care. Over the years it has not always New Clause 3 been so good, but there are times when one really worries, and one cannot work while worrying about REGULATION OF CHILD PERFORMANCE children not being in a safe place. ‘(1) In section 37 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1963 (Restriction on persons under 16 taking part in public performances, Andy Sawford (Corby) (Lab/Co-op): My hon. Friend etc.) the words “under the compulsory school leaving age” shall speaks passionately about childminders in Hackney. be inserted after the word “child” in subsection (1). The Northamptonshire Childminding Association was (2) After subsection (2) there shall be inserted— also clear that it thought that this proposal would “(2A) In this section, “Performance” means the planned reduce quality and increase cost, so that experience is participation by a child aged under the compulsory school leaving consistent with hers. age in a public entertainment production, unless that participation— (a) involves risks that are no greater than the risks faced by Meg Hillier: That is my worry. What exactly is an that child in the ordinary course of his life and does “agency”? We hear one description from bits of government not require the child to be absent from school or requires an absence from school of not more than and other descriptions from some of the organisations four days in a six month period and such absence is outside, including Ofsted. If the Minister is saying, as authorised by the school; she has indicated, that some part of this move is about (b) involves the child doing that which he would do in any sharing professional experience and providing support event in the ordinary course of his life; or to professional colleagues, I can tell her that my childminder (c) involves the creation of audio-visual content where network in Hackney does that very effectively in any there is an overriding public interest in the child’s case, so does it count as an agency? I have suggested participation.”. that it thinks about setting one up. If it was to work in (3) Subsection (3)(a) of that section shall be repealed. collaboration with the local authority or with the local (4) After subsection (5) of that section there shall be Sure Start centres in smaller areas, would it then count inserted— as an agency? In the attempts to trial some of the “(5A) Regulations under this section shall provide for the local elements, is the Minister being prescriptive or is she authority to give reasons for any refusal of a licence under this allowing 1,000 flowers to bloom? If it is the latter, what section and shall specify any mitigating action which would be is to prevent the bad, rapacious private agencies from required to allow a licence to be issued. 241 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 242

(5B) A refusal of a local authority to grant a licence may be “(1A) Licences under section 25 of the principal Act in reversed on appeal.”. relation to performances as defined under this Act shall be issued (5) Subsection (6) of that section shall be repealed. by local authorities rather than as specified in the principal Act.”. (6) After subsection (7) the following shall be inserted— (10) In subsection (2) of that section the words after the word “(7A) A licence granted by a local authority shall be “granted” shall be replaced by the words “regardless of the age of transferrable to another local authority if the child moves the child”. residence from one local authority area to another.”. (11) In the Children (Performances) Regulations 1968 (7) Section 38 of the Act (Restriction on licences for (SI 1968/1728)— performances by children under 14) shall be repealed. (a) In Regulation 8 (Medical examinations) in paragraph (8) After section 39 of the Act, there shall be inserted— (2), the words “performance taking place within a period of six months from the date of the said “39A Presumption that a licence should be issued medical examination” shall be replaced by the words (1) There shall be a presumption that a licence shall be issued “later performance”. unless there is identifiable potential harm that cannot be (b) At the end of Regulation 10 (Education) there shall be mitigated by any other action. inserted— (2) For the purposes of this section— “(6) The child’s parents or guardians must inform the child’s (a) “identifiable potential harm” shall be any outcome that school of any days on which the child will be absent by reason of acts adversely against the wellbeing of the child; taking part in performances.”. (b) “mitigated” shall mean such reasonable action that (c) In Regulation 12(3) (maximum number of other secures the safety of the child from the impact on children a matron shall have charge of), “eleven” their wellbeing; and shall be replaced by “nine”. (c) “wellbeing” includes the physical, mental and (d) At the end of Regulation 12 (Matrons) there shall be emotional condition and interests of the child. inserted— 39B Guidance “(7) A matron in respect of a performance organised by an amateur body who is unpaid shall not require local authority ‘(1) The Secretary of State shall issue guidance to local approval provided that he or she is CRB-checked and is authorities on the criteria for issuing licences and the conditions independent of the nominated child protection person.”. which shall apply to them; and this guidance may make different provision for children falling within different age bands (e) Regulation 17 (Further medical examinations) shall applicable to their development age. cease to have effect.’.—(Tim Loughton.) (2) Guidance shall include a requirement for the local Brought up, and read the First time. authority’s decision to be based on an assessment of the risks involved in the child’s participation in the performance. Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): (3) Guidance shall include the safeguarding arrangements I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. which shall be made in regard to participation in sporting activities; and in drawing up this guidance the Secretary of State Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With this it shall consult sports governing bodies. will be convenient to discuss the following: (4) Guidance shall require the local authority, in considering New clause 4—Continuing support for former foster the terms on which a licence is issued, to have regard to the children— number of days actually worked spread across a particular ‘Section 23C of the Children Act 1989 (continuing functions period. in respect of former relevant children) is amended by the (5) Guidance shall require local authorities to provide for insertion of the following subsections after subsection (5). on-line applications for licences, to deal with all licences in time if “(5ZA) The assistance given under subsection (4)(c) shall submitted at least 10 days before they are to come into effect, or include the continuation of accommodation with the former five days in respect of a repeated application. local authority foster parent, unless— (6) Guidance shall provide for local authorities to inspect sites (a) the former relevant child states that he or she does not where children taking part in performances are to be wish to continue residing in such accommodation, or accommodated, if they will be residing alongside unconnected adults. (b) the former local authority foster parent does not wish to continue to provide accommodation, or (7) Guidance shall provide for local authorities to disregard (c) it is not reasonably practicable to arrange such absence in connection with licensed performances in school accommodation. records for authorised absences. (5ZB) ‘Former local authority foster parent’ means a local (8) Guidance shall provide that local authorities shall require authority foster parent within the meaning of section 22C(12) that matrons or chaperones shall operate under standards with whom the former relevant child, as a looked after child, was accepted by the appropriate advisory bodies. placed under section 22C(6)(a) or (b).”.’. (9) Guidance shall also include the circumstances in which it is New clause 5—Assessment and support of young carers— appropriate to authorise a body of persons to organise a performance for which licences will not be required by virtue of ‘(1) Where it appears to a local authority that a child within section 37(3)(b) of this Act, including where the performers are their area may provide or be about to provide care to an adult or of 13 years or upwards or if the body is an amateur body and has a child who is disabled, the authority must— a nominated child protection person who has received (a) assess whether the child has needs for support relating appropriate training and is independent of the chaperone. to their caring role (or is likely to have such needs in (10) Guidance under this section shall be laid before the future); and Parliament and shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a (b) if the child is found to have such needs, set out what resolution of either House of Parliament as if it were contained those needs are (or are likely to be in the future). in a statutory instrument subject to such annulment.”. (2) Having carried out an assessment under subsection (1) the (9) Clause 42 of the Act (Licences for children and young authority must meet those needs for support which it considers persons performing abroad) shall be amended by inserting after to be necessary to meet in order to safeguard and promote the subsection (1)— child’s welfare. 243 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 244

(3) Having carried out an assessment under subsection (1), a (a) who live within the local authority’s area, or local authority must also consider whether the adult is or may be (b) that the local authority is looking after. eligible for assessment under the Care Act 2013, and if so must (4) In this section— ensure such an assessment is carried out unless that adult objects. “early help services” means services to children under 6 (4) Having carried out an assessment under subsection (1) a and their families, and services to children and local authority must consider whether, in the case of a child who young people (of whatever age) and their families is caring for a disabled child, the child being cared for requires an early in the emergence of a problem; assessment under the Children Act 1989 and if so shall carry out “young people” means people under 25.’. that assessment unless the person with parental responsibility for that child objects. New clause 13—Duty of local safeguarding children (5) The Secretary of State shall issue guidance in relation to boards to undertake serious reviews— the duties set out above having consulted with persons whom the ‘(1) Section 14 of the Children Act 2004 (Functions and Secretary of State considers to be appropriate, the said guidance procedure of Local Safeguarding Children Boards) is amended to be issued under section 7 of the Local Authority Social as follows. Services Act 1970. (2) After subsection (2), insert— (6) Any service provided by an authority in the exercise of “(2A) Functions of review under subsection (2) shall include a functions conferred on them under this section may be provided duty to undertake serious case reviews at the direction of the for the family or for any member of the child’s family, and may Secretary of State.”.’. include— New clause 14—Part-time independent educational (a) services to the adult the child is providing care to meet the adult’s needs for care and support; and institutions to have no right to give corporal punishment— (b) services to the adult to enhance their parenting ‘(1) Schedule 1 to the Education and Skills Act 2008 (Minor capacity. and consequential amendments) is amended as follows. If such services are provided with a view to safeguarding and (2) In sub-paragraph (5) of paragraph 9, insert the following promoting the child’s welfare.’. words at the end of inserted subsection (7B): “except that it applies in relation to this section as if for New clause 11—General duty of local authorities to paragraphs (a) and (b) of subsection (2) of co-operate to secure sufficient accommodation for looked section 92 of that Act there were substituted the after children— following words “for any amount of time during ‘(1) The Children Act 1989 is amended as follows. an academic year, no matter how little”.”.’. (2) After section 22G (General duty of local authority to New clause 15—Return from care— secure sufficient accommodation for looked after children), ‘(1) The Children Act 1989 is amended as follows. insert the following new section: (2) After section 22C (Ways in which looked after children are “22H General duty of local authorities to co-operate to to be accommodated and maintained), insert the following new secure sufficient accommodation for looked after children section: (1) It is the general duty of a local authority to take steps in “22CA Return home support services for looked after children co-operation with neighbouring local authorities that secure, so returning home to the care of their parents/others with far as reasonably practicable, the outcomes in subsections (2) parental responsibility and (3). (1) Whenever a local authority decides that a looked after (2) The first outcome applies to the children defined in child should return to the care of its parent, the local authority subsection (3) of section 22G in respect of whom the local must assess and monitor the support needs of the child and the authority are unable to secure the outcome defined in subsection parent for as long as is necessary to safeguard and promote the (2) of that section. child’s welfare. (3) The first outcome is that the local authority is able to (2) If after carrying out an assessment in accordance with secure accommodation for those children that— subsection (1) above, the local authority decides that the child or (a) is within a neighbouring authority’s area; and the parent has support needs, they must provide a child in care, (b) meets the need of those children. and, in the case of formerly-accommodated children, offer to provide, ‘return home support services’ to meet the identified (4) The second outcome applies to the children defined in support needs for as long as is necessary to safeguard and subsection (3) of section 22G in respect of whom a neighbouring promote the child’s welfare. local authority is unable to secure the outcome defined in subsection (2) of that section. (3) Whenever the local authority provides ‘return home support services’ under subsection (2) above, they must prepare a (5) The second outcome is that the local authority is able to personal budget if asked to do so by the parent or the child, with secure accommodation for those children that— a view to the recipient being involved in agreeing and securing (a) is within the authority’s area; and those services.”.’. (b) meets the need of those children.”.’. New clause 16—Provision of further assistance to care New clause 12—General duty of local authority to leavers up to the age of 25— secure sufficient early help services— ‘(1) Section 23CA of the Children Act 1989 (Further ‘(1) It is the general duty of a local authority to take steps that assistance to pursue education or training) is amended as follows. secure, so far as reasonably practicable, the outcome in (2) At the end of the section heading insert “or for welfare subsection (2). purposes”. (2) The outcome is that the local authority is able to provide (3) In subsection (1)(a), at the end, insert “and”. the children and young people mentioned in subsection (3) and (4) In subsection (1)(b), omit the last “and”. their families with provision of early help services that— (5) Omit subsection (1)(c). (a) are within the authority’s area or a neighbouring authority’s area; and (6) In subsection (4), after “training”, insert “or welfare”. (b) meet the needs of those children and young people and (7) In subsection (5)(a), omit the last “or”. their families. (8) In subsection (5)(b), after “training”, insert “or welfare”. (3) The children and young people referred to in subsection (2) (9) At the end of subsection (5), add the following new are those— paragraphs— 245 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 246

“(c) providing advice and support in relation to his (2) The National Curriculum for England is not required to welfare; or specify attainment targets or assessment arrangements for PSHE (d) making a grant in exceptional circumstances to enable (and section 84(1) has effect accordingly). him to meet expenses connected with his welfare.”.’. (3) The Secretary of State for Education shall set out guidance New clause 17—Amendments to the Health Act 2006— to schools and colleges to ensure that a coherent approach to personal, social, health and economic education is developed, ‘(1) The Health Act 2006 is amended as follows. including between primary and secondary schools. (2) After section 8, insert— (4) It is the duty of the governing body and head teacher of “8A Offence of failing to prevent smoking in a private any school in which PSHE is provided in pursuance of this Part vehicle when children are present to secure that guidance issued under subsection (3) is followed (1) It is the duty of any person who drives a private vehicle to and that— ensure that the vehicle is smoke-free whenever a child or children (a) information presented in the course of providing under the age of 18 are in such vehicle or part of such vehicle. PSHE should be accurate and balanced; (2) A person who fails to comply with the duty in (b) PSHE is taught in a way that is appropriate to the ages subsection (1) commits an offence. of the pupils concerned and to their religious and cultural backgrounds, and reflects a reasonable range (3) A person convicted of an offence under this section is liable of religious, cultural and other perspectives; on summary conviction to a fine of £60. (c) PSHE is taught in a way that endeavours to promote (4) The Secretary of State may introduce regulations to alter equality, celebrate diversity, and emphasise the the level of penalty payable under subsection (3). importance of both rights and responsibilities. (5) The Secretary of State shall update all relevant regulations (5) In the exercise of their functions under this Part so far as regarding the offence created under subsection (2) within six relating to PSHE, a local authority, governing body or head months of this section coming into force. teacher shall have regard to any guidance issued from time to (3) In section 79(4)(a), leave out “or 8(7)” and insert “, 8(7), or time by the Secretary of State.”. 8A(4).”.’. (5) Section 403 of the Education Act 1996 (sex education: New clause 18—Review of impact of under-occupancy manner of provision) is amended as set out in subsections (6) penalty on prospective adopters, prospective special guardians to (9). and foster parents— (6) In subsection (1), for the words from the beginning to “at a ‘Before the end of one year beginning with the day on which maintained school” there is substituted “The governing body or this Act receives Royal Assent, the Secretary of State must— other proprietor of any school to which this section applies, and its head teacher, must take such steps as are reasonably (a) carry out a review of the impact of the housing practicable to ensure that sex and relationships education is given under-occupancy penalty on prospective adopters, to registered pupils at the school and that”. prospective special guardians and foster parents, and (7) After that subsection there is inserted— (b) publish a report of the conclusions of the review.’. New clause 19—Arrangements to support child “(1ZA) The schools to which this section applies are— witnesses— (a) maintained schools; (b) city technology colleges; ‘(1) The Secretary of State shall by order introduce arrangements to establish specialist courts in cases where a child (c) city colleges for the technology of the arts; has been sexually abused or harmed, and where the child will be (d) Academies. required to give evidence to the court, and to be examined by the A reference in this section or section 404 to the governing body court. of a school, in relation to a school within paragraph (b), (c) or (2) Arrangements made by order under subsection (1) above (d), shall be read as a reference to the proprietor of the school.”. shall include arrangements to appoint intermediaries to support (8) In subsection (1A)— child witnesses in all court cases, and other measures to support child witnesses.’. (a) for “when sex education is given to registered pupils at maintained schools” there is substituted “when sex New clause 20—Personal, social and health education and relationships education is given to registered in maintained schools— pupils at schools to which this section applies”; ‘(1) In section 84(3) of the Education Act 2002 (curriculum (b) in paragraph (a), after “, and” there is inserted “learn foundation subjects for the first, second and third key stages), the nature of civil partnership and the importance of after paragraph (g) there is inserted— strong and stable relationships.”; “(ga) personal, social and health education”. (c) paragraph (b) is omitted. (2) In section 85(4) of the Education Act 2002 (curriculum (9) In subsection (1C), for “sex education” there is substituted foundation subjects for the fourth key stage), at the end there is “sex and relationships education”, inserted “, and (10) In section 579 of the Education Act 1996 (general (d) personal, social and health education.” interpretation), in the definition of “sex education”in subsection (1)— (3) In section 74(1) of the Education and Inspections Act (a) for “sex education” there is substituted “sex and 2006, which (when brought into force) will substitute a new relationships education”; section 85 in the Education Act 2002, in subsection (4) of that (b) at the end there is inserted “but does not include substituted section (foundation subjects for the fourth key stage), education about human reproduction provided as at the end there is inserted “, and part of any science teaching;”. (d) personal, social and health education.” (11) For section 405 of the Education Act 1996 there is (4) Before section 86 of the Education Act 2002 there is substituted— inserted— “405 Exemption from sex and relationships education “85B Personal, social and health education (1) If a pupil of sufficient maturity in attendance at a school to (1) For the purposes of this Part, personal, social and health which section 403 applies requests to be wholly or partly excused education (“PSHE”) shall include sex and relationship from receiving sex and relationships education at the school, the education, including information about same-sex relationships, pupil shall be so excused accordingly until the request is sexual violence, domestic violence and sexual consent. withdrawn. 247 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 248

(2) The Secretary of State must in regulations define (2) In discharging its duty under subsection (1), where “sufficient maturity”. appropriate the authority must— (3) A statutory instrument containing regulations under (a) consult with the family of the child or young person subsection (2) may not be made unless a draft of the instrument identified, or the young person themselves; has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each House (b) involve the local authority in which the identified pupil of Parliament. is ordinarily resident; (4) The Secretary of State must lay draft regulations before (c) refer the identified pupil to additional services outside Parliament before the end of the period of 3 months beginning the school; with the day on which this Act is passed.”.’. (d) have regard to any guidance given from time to time by New clause 22—Information sharing about live births— the Secretary of State. ‘(1) NHS trusts should make arrangements to share with local (3) The “appropriate authority” for a school is— authorities records of live births to parents resident in their area, (a) in the case of a maintained school, the governing body; to be used by the local authority for the purposes of identifying (b) in the case of an academy, the proprietor; and contacting new families through children’s centres and any (c) in the case of a pupil referral unit, the management other early years outreach services it may operate. committee.’. (2) The Secretary of State must, within a period of six months New clause 27—Further and higher educational of Royal Assent to this Act, bring forward regulations placing consequential requirements on trusts and local authorities in institutions: duties with respect to student carers— exercising their duty under subsection (1), including, but not ‘(1) The responsible body of an institution to which this section limited to— applies must, within 12 months of the passing of this Act, identify (a) the format of arrangements made; or make arrangements to identify student carers and have a policy in place on promoting the well-being of student carers. (b) the safeguarding of information; (c) the circumstances in which it would not be appropriate (2) This section applies to— for a trust to provide information to local authorities; (a) a university; (d) the regularity of data transfers; (b) any other institution within the higher education sector; (e) timescales within which a local authority must contact new families made known to it; and (c) an institution within the further education sector. (f) any further requirements the Secretary of State deems (3) A responsible body is— necessary. (a) in the case of an institution in paragraphs (2)(a) or (b), (3) Local authorities must establish a pilot scheme to trial the the governing body; registration of births within children’s centres, and evaluate the (b) in the case of a college of further education under the effectiveness of the scheme to— management of a board of management, the board (a) identify and contact new families; and of management; (b) enable children’s centres to reach more families, in (c) in the case of any other college of further education, particular those with children under the age of two, any board of governors of the college or any person or who the local authority consider— responsible for the management of the college, whether or not formally constituted as a governing (i) hard to reach, or body or board of governors. (ii) vulnerable.’. (4) In discharging its duty under subsection (1), where New clause 25—Health bodies: duties with respect to appropriate the authority must— young carers— (a) consult with the family of the child or young person ‘(1) In exercising their general functions health bodies must— identified, or the young person themselves; (a) promote and safeguard the well-being of young carers; (b) involve the local authority in which the identified pupil (b) ensure that effective procedures exist to identify is ordinarily resident; patients who are or are about to become carers; (c) refer the identified student to additional services (c) ensure that effective procedures exist to identify outside of the institution; and patients who it may be reasonably assumed may be (d) have regard to any guidance given from time to time by receiving care from a child or young person for whom the Secretary of State.’. they are responsible; Amendment 33, in clause 1, page 1, leave out line 9 (d) ensure that appropriate systems exist to ensure that and insert— carers receive appropriate information and advice; ‘satisfied that C should be placed for adoption—’. and Amendment 34, in clause 2, page 1, line 15, at end (e) ensure that systems are in place to ensure that the insert— relevant general medical services are rendered to their patients who are young carers, or to the young carers ‘(1A) In subsection (4), after paragraph (f) insert— of their patients. “(g) the child’s religious persuasion, racial origin and (2) In relation to paragraphs (1)(b), (c) and (d), the Secretary cultural and linguistic background, although this of State may by regulations further provide for the strategies to paragraph does not apply to an adoption agency in be developed.’. Wales, to which subsection (5) instead applies.”.’. New clause 26—Schools: duties with respect to young Amendment 2, in clause 3, page 2, line 22, at end carers— insert— ‘(1) The appropriate authorities of schools must ensure that, ‘(1A) The Secretary of State may require local authorities to within 12 months of the passing of this Act, they take all make arrangements with adoption agencies to compensate them reasonable steps to ensure that there is in place a policy which— for the cost of recruiting approved prospective adopters.’. (a) identifies young carers within the school; and Amendment 29, page 2, line 22, at end insert— (b) makes arrangements for the provision within school of ‘(1A) Directions under subsection (1) may not be given before appropriate support to promote the well-being and May 2017, being five years after the introduction of adoption improve the educational attainment of pupils who scorecards.’. are young carers. Amendment 3, page 2, line 32, leave out paragraph (c). 249 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 250

Government amendments 9 and 16. Tim Loughton: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for Amendment 31, in clause 9, page 9, line 8, at end taking up most of the remaining debating time in insert— reading out the list of the remaining new clauses and ‘and section 23B (8A) and monitoring and evaluating the effectiveness amendments in the group. It is unfortunate that we have of that local authority in discharging its duties under section 23C a large group of new clauses and amendments here, (4B) and section 23CA and advising them on ways to improve.’. covering a very wide variety of important subjects to do Amendment 32, page 9, line 11, at end add— with personal, social and health education, foster care continuing support, young carers, care leaver assistants, ‘(2) In the Children Act 1989, in section 23B after birth registration, adoption and so on, and yet we are subsection (8) insert— left with barely an hour, particularly for Back Benchers (8A) The duty of local authorities under subsection (8) to who have not had the opportunity in Committee to safeguard and promote the child’s welfare, includes in particular point out things that we think are missing from the Bill a duty to promote the child’s educational achievement.”.’. or things that could be improved. On Second Reading Amendment 49, in clause 10, page 9, line 16, at end we were time-limited in our contributions, too. I have insert— taken a lot of time in making that point, but it needed ‘unless in the view of the court it is unreasonable to do so’. to be put on the record. Amendment 35, in clause 11, page 10, line 10, at end I will speak as quickly as possible to the nine amendments insert— and new clauses that I have tabled. In doing so, I want ‘(2B) “Involvement” is any kind of direct or indirect to signify my sympathy with new clause 4, tabled by the involvement that promotes the welfare of the child. It shall not right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East be taken to mean any particular division of a child’s time.’. (Paul Goggins), on continuing support for foster children, Amendment 50, page 10, line 10, at end insert— which is important. I know there are various problems with the way in which the amendment has been fashioned. ‘(2B) Involvement shall mean, but is not limited to, direct I support new clause 22, tabled by my hon. Friend the contact with a child by any means including supervised contact, Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom), indirect contact with a child by any means including letters or telephone or receiving information about a child from the other on birth registration improvements. I have a good deal of parent or a third party.’. sympathy, as I said on Second Reading, with improvements to the Bill to assist young carers, particularly new Amendment 51, in clause 12, page 10, line 35, at end clause 5. add— ‘(5) A child arrangements order that provides for a child to reside with a particular person is to be interpreted as granting 5pm rights of custody to that person.’. New clause 3, the lead amendment in the group, is the Amendment 5, in clause 14, page 13, line 8, after one I want to speak least about; in the circumstances, I ‘issued’, insert— will limit my comments. It relates to the performance ‘unless the court considers it necessary in order to safeguard or regulations, which need to be brought into the 21st century. promote the child’s welfare to permit additional time for the We did considerable work on that within the Department disposing of the application.’. for Education. They are 50 years out of date. We only Amendment 52, page 13, line 8, after ‘issued’, insert— had to look at the “Britain’s Got Talent” finals and heats the other day to see that a number of child ‘unless in the view of the court it would be in the best interests of the child to set a different timetable’. performers are now taking part in such talent shows. We need to be absolutely assured that children are able Amendment 6, page 13, line 45, at end insert— to perform—strut their stuff, demonstrate their talents—in ‘or, having taken into consideration the safeguarding and promotion a safe way that is appropriate to their growing-up stage, of the child’s welfare, following evidence presented to the court and are not being pushed into it. relating to a planned programme of intervention, such longer time period as the court deems appropriate.’. In the new clause I have set out in some detail the Amendment 36, in clause 15, page 14, line 46, at end amendments that need to be made to the regulations, insert— which were drafted in the 1960s. That is the result of a lot of work, done by members of the working group ‘(A1) Section 22 of the Children Act 1989 (general duty of that I reassembled under Sarah Thane, who produced local authority in relation to children looked after by them) is an excellent report at the tail end of the previous amended as follows. Government. Importantly, my new clause 3 also gives a (B1) In subsection (4), after “proposing to look after,”, insert practical and usable definition of “performance”, which “including when making any fundamental change to the care the primary legislation fails to do, and really needs to plan before or after a care order has been made.”.’. do. I commend it to the Government. Although the Amendment 7, page 15, line 3, after ‘provisions’, consultation seemed to prove inconclusive, there is a insert ‘and sibling placement arrangements’. clear wish to make sure that child performance regulations Amendment 8, page 15, line 6, at end insert— are brought up to date. The revelations about Jimmy ‘unless it deems such consideration necessary in assessing the Savile have only made that more urgent. permanence provisions of the section 31A plan for the child New clause 11 is about ensuring the sufficiency of concerned and making the care order, taking into account the accommodation for children in care. This should be circumstances of the application and the safeguarding and promotion happening already under section 22 of the Children of the child’s welfare.’. Act 1989, but it is not. Under that Act, we should be Amendment 53, page 15, line 6, at end insert— prioritising locally sourced accommodation for children ‘but may do so when any matter is brought to the court’s attention in care. A number of working parties were set up last by the child’s guardian’. July, in my time in the Department for Education, to Government amendments 10 to 15. look at how we can improve the system. There is a real 251 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 252 problem when 4,890 looked-after children are housed in Bill to give a clear indication to local authorities that children’s homes, 50% of which are concentrated in just early help is an important part of caring for vulnerable three regions: the north-west, the west midlands and the children. It is a social gain and it will be a financial gain south-east. Some 44% of children in those children’s from avoiding the costs when those children get into homes are placed out of their placing area, 28% of trouble later on if they are not given the appropriate them more than 20 miles away from it. The figure for all support and care that they need at an early stage. looked-after children is 12%. Little wonder that so New clause 13 is about serious case reviews. The many children—a disproportionate number—run away Children Act 1989 introduced a local authority duty to or go missing from many of these children’s residential investigate when a child who lives or is found in their homes. area is suffering or is likely to suffer significant harm. We need to take the opportunity of this legislation to The guidance produced in 1991 instructed area child make sure that we have much more robust guidance and protection committees to conduct investigations or part instruction for local authorities about placing children 8 reviews. They were beefed up into serious case reviews much closer to where they come from, if that is possible after the Laming inquiry and parts of the Children Act without affecting their welfare—closer to anchor links in 2004. Again, they were beefed up in the “working with extended family members or friends—and making together” revisions in 2009, and in June 2010, the new it possible for them to stay at the same school. It is crazy Government required all future serious case reviews to that we are spending more than £1 billion on placing be published in full, subject to various criteria and 9% of the in-care population in children’s residential subject to anonymity and redaction. That was the right homes. That is from a total budget of just over £3 billion. thing to do. New clause 11 would beef up the regulations for The problem, as I warned at the time, is that the placing authorities. If they do not have economies of Government and the Minister do not have the power to scale, they should look to federate with neighbouring force local safeguarding children boards to commission authorities, so that they can set up or buy places closer those reports in the first place. They have the power to to home—much more smart commissioning is required— force them to publish them once produced, but not the rather than spot-purchasing, which makes for costly power to commission them in the first place. I am afraid placements that are often not of the best. Too often, the that the figures have borne out my concerns, because placements end up in completely inappropriate areas, between June 2010 and November 2012, some 147 serious often in cheaper, coastal properties—my constituency case reviews were initiated by local safeguarding children’s of Worthing is subject to this—where there are serious boards. In each of the previous two years, the number concerns about the safety of the environment in which of serious case reviews was around 130 to 136, so we children have been placed. have effectively halved the number of serious case reviews. At the beginning of my remarks, I should have declared Alas, that is not because the number of serious incidents my interest as set out in the Register of Members’ happening has halved. I fear there are still far too many Financial Interests; I have done so with regard to all my unnecessary deaths and far too much child cruelty amendments in this group, for safety’s sake. happening. But serious case reviews that should have been commissioned have not been. New clause 12 introduces a sufficiency duty for early help services. This is not a new proposal; it was I very much welcome the announcement last week of recommendation 10 in Eileen Munro’s excellent report the setting up of a serious case review panel. I particularly of 2011. I have structured the new clause to mirror the welcome the inclusion of Nicholas Dann, head of sufficiency duty for children in care that I have just international development at the Air Accidents Investigation mentioned. In her recommendation, Eileen Munro said: Branch, which was an interesting analogy about how “The Government should place a duty on local authorities and accidents/incidents happen and how we learn from them. statutory partners to secure the sufficient provision of local early But we need to disseminate best practice and the lessons help services for children, young people and families.” of poor practice as well. That body should retain, The authorities and partners should monitor and approve a list of suitable authors, and make sure that their qualifications are sufficient that “specify the range of professional help available to local children, they can continue to be commissioned to author serious young people and families…specify how they will identify children who are suffering or likely to suffer…set out the local resourcing case reviews. That panel will have the power to challenge of the early help services” local safeguarding boards not initiating SCRs, but it does not have any statutory teeth, and this is the only and opportunity we will have to give statutory teeth to the “lead to the identification of the early help that is needed by a Secretary of State to be able to say, “Youmust commission particular child”. a serious case review,” when there is an overwhelming The reason for that is clear: preventive services do more case where an incident qualifies for one. to reduce abuse and neglect than reactive services. New clause 14 is a contentious one that I shall speak Co-ordination of services is important to reduce confusion, briefly on. It is traditional for any children’s Bill to have inefficiency and ineffectiveness in service provision. some opportunity to raise the issue of smacking, and I We have an Early Intervention Foundation, but we am amazed that no other amendments have been tabled do not have an early intervention grant any more, so it on that subject. I am not suggesting any changes to is all the more important that we go ahead as quickly as smacking. I do not support any changes in the way that possible with Eileen Munro’s recommendation 10. It is parents chastise their children, but there is a problem two years since that recommendation was made. In with madrassahs and other supplementary schools. It is their response to it, the Government said that they a difficult problem that has been left on the back accepted all its principles. It is about time to get on with burner. It was addressed by Sir Roger Singleton when it, and the new clause would be a practical one in the he produced a report for the last Government in 253 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 254

March 2010, entitled “Physical punishment: improving packages back with their families, where that is the consistency and protection”. Sir Roger was quite clear most appropriate destination for them and only where it in the report: is in their best interests. “I am wholly satisfied that the safeguarding protection in New clause 15 merits serious consideration. It would relation to physical punishment which children enjoy in full-time provide the right social outcome for vulnerable children schools should be extended to all the other settings where they in care, but it would also save an awful lot of money if learn, play, worship and are cared for. A straightforward ban on we get it right. I am sure that the Minister, who has the smacking of all children engaged in activities outside the context of the family will be easy to understand and send an great expertise in and knowledge of dealing with different unambiguous message of what is not permitted to those organisations types of children in the care system, will be supportive. and settings where doubt exists or latitude is sought.” It is also supported by an interesting paper produced last November by the Social Care Institute for Excellence, His recommendation was: which said: “The current ban on physical punishment in schools and other “Returning from public care to live with a parent is the most children’s settings should be extended to include any form of likely ‘permanence option’ but, for maltreated children, the least advice, guidance, teaching, training, instruction, worship, treatment successful. There are wide variations between local authorities in or therapy and to any form of care or supervision which is carried terms of the resources allocated to decision-making about out other than by a parent or member of the child’s own family or reunification, and the quality of practice.” household.” Finally, I have tabled three amendments on adoption. I know this issue is fraught with problems—I battled I have mentioned why adoption needs to be a priority. with it, together with the hon. Member for Brent Central Many good things have happened in the past two and a (Sarah Teather), in our time at the Department for half years on adoption, and I am very pleased that the Education—but given the clear examples of abuse we Minister is committed to carrying that work on. The have seen in some madrassahs, which have been revealed number of children given the opportunity to be adopted in television programmes and by investigative journalism, has been increasing, although numbers alone are not it should not continue to fester on the Secretary of the be-all and end-all; it is the quality of the placements State’s desk. New clause 14 is a probing amendment that really matters. The adoption scorecards that were aimed at getting the subject back on the radar, because introduced a year ago lay out with full transparency it has been more than three years since those clear how well an authority is doing compared with other recommendations were made and nothing has been authorities across a whole range of measures. We have done about them. the adoption gateway to help recruitment, we are speeding up legal proceedings for children left in limbo, we are Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): Do the hon. bringing in and beefing up fostering for adoption, we Gentleman’s proposals relate only to the schools he have the adoption support services that I mentioned, referred to as madrassahs, or do they also relate to and many other things are happening. All that amounts supplementary schools and weekend schools? to a very serious structural overhaul, and it is beginning to work, so we do not want to go and mess it up. I fear Tim Loughton: The new clause is very broad and that in this Bill, the Government, with the best intentions, could effectively cover other supplementary schools, as are going too far. they are termed. I know that this subject is fraught with problems. No doubt the new clause will not be a satisfactory 5.15 pm solution ultimately, but I think it is a working basis on On the thorny question of assessment and recruitment, which to take the matter forward, rather than continuing many local authorities do not do it well or nearly well to ignore it. enough; many independent adoption agencies do it New clause 15, which has the full support of the much better. However, do we really need a blanket National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, power that threatens to take away from every local relates to support services for those returning from care. authority in the country the capacity to recruit, assess There has been a big focus, rightly, on improving the and approve the functions of adopters? There should be whole adoption regime. The Government announced a the underlying threat that the Secretary of State has the little while ago that £150 million will be taken from power to take away that capacity from individual authorities what was the early intervention grant to provide adoption that just do not “get it”—that continue to fail to improve support services. It is really important that we have the their adoption support services and therefore fail these right degree of support around placements to ensure vulnerable children. that they stick. However, a blanket threat to take away the right from We hear a lot about adoption support services, improving all local authorities will disincentivise them from continuing care homes and better training for foster carers, but to improve, and they may well not continue to invest in 37% of children in care return to their birth parents, good recruitment and assessment. The voluntary sector and too many of them then return to care after the is way off having the capacity to pick up those sorts of initial intensive preparation and support because of activities in the necessary numbers. In amendment 29, I lack of ongoing support services. In 2012 that affected ask for a breathing space—a moratorium of five years 10,000 children who returned to the birth parents—treble before clause 3 is introduced. Amendment 3 would take the number of children who get adopted. We know that out the blanket provision, which is not needed at this that instability, that revolving door going in and out of time. It is a bit of a slap in the face for local authorities, care, can be really damaging to those vulnerable children. a good number of which, though not nearly enough, The NSPCC has put together a very credible case. It has are doing a good job and do “get it”. However, the totted up the cost of children remaining in the care Secretary of State should have the power to take that system against the cost of giving them proper support right away from those which do not. 255 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 256

My final amendment deals with a very practical girls say that they have experienced unwanted touching. point. One of the things holding back independent We are keen for the Government to support our proposed agencies from recruiting more adopters is that they do new clause 20. not get paid until there is an inter-agency fee when a Amendment 33, which stands in my name and that of child is placed with a couple. If we were to pay a bounty my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and fee so that they were paid for their time and effort in Sunderland West, seeks to ensure that we do not put training and recruiting every appropriate adopter couple speed before getting it right for children. It would who passed muster, that would enable them to go out ensure that children are not placed in fostering or and recruit more; many independent adoption agencies adoption placements either before it has been decided do that well. This would be a good, practical measure to that adoption is the plan or, in the Minister’s words, as recruit more adopters, whom we all know we desperately early as the first week in care. We debated this at length need. Please let us not throw out the baby with the in Committee, so I will not labour the point, but that bathwater. debate gave me more cause for concern, not less. These are practical measures that would enhance the It seems to me that placing children in fostering or Bill, and many things that were not included in it. It is a adoption placements before the local authority has great pity that we have not had more opportunity to decided that that should be the plan is more disruptive debate these matters properly. for the child. Conducting an informal matching process, possibly within a week, before placing the child and Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab): It is a pleasure to follow then considering their wishes and feelings about whether the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham adoption is suitable and the placement is the right one (Tim Loughton), who, like so many Members, is incredibly runs the risk of putting more people off adopting, as passionate about these issues and did an enormous many Members have pointed out, and of more adoption amount to shape the Bill in its current form. Many breakdowns, which plays into children’s biggest fears Members here today are deeply frustrated that they that this for-ever home may not be the right one. As have not yet had any opportunity to scrutinise some always, when we talked to children about this, they felt really important areas of the Bill, and I share their strongly that their views should be heard. frustration. I will attempt to be as brief as I can so that as many of them can speak as possible while we make John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): Will sure that we do this Bill and these children justice. the hon. Lady give way? When we scrutinised the Bill on Second Reading, my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland Lisa Nandy: I am sorry, but I cannot give way because West (Mrs Hodgson) and I said that it would come to a number of Back Benchers have sat through this entire be characterised as much by what was not in it as what debate and are desperate to get in. I wish the hon. was. That is the motivation behind our new clause 20, Gentleman well in doing so. which would ensure that sex and relationship education In Committee, the Minister said that further statutory is available to all children across the country. The nation guidance would be provided to local authorities that are has been shocked by child grooming scandals where making this important decision. Although that does young girls have been systematically exploited by older not alleviate all my concerns, the guidance will clearly men—often men who they thought were taking care of be central to the practical effects of clause 1. Why have them. we not yet seen a draft of the guidance, and when will Research by the Children’s Commissioner has found we see it? that far too many young people—boys and girls—do Amendment 34, which stands in my name, relates to not know what a good relationship looks like. Worryingly, the consideration of ethnicity in adoption placements. it also found that many of them did not even understand The Minister expressed concern in Committee that the concept of consent. Our view is that we are failing placing ethnicity on the welfare checklist, as we are to equip young people with the knowledge, skills and suggesting, will put undue weight on it. He said: resilience they need to keep themselves safe. We must do “As soon as one tries to specify particular elements of a child’s much more to tackle child abuse, but more importantly characteristics in an exhaustive list, one then starts to prioritise we must prevent it from happening in the first place. one characteristic over another.”––[Official Report, Children and Families Public Bill Committee, 12 March 2013; c. 205.] Youngpeople are increasingly exposed to risks online. We think that the question is not whether we can afford I want him to consider briefly that the opposite may be to talk to them about issues as difficult as this, but the problem. whether we can afford not to. We think that all children The Minister referred to research by Birmingham should have the opportunity to access age-appropriate city council that looked at the experience of prospective sex and relationship education. In a departmental report adopters. It certainly emerged that a problem with on personal, social, health and economic education, practice—aggressive questioning, for example—and not young people said that they valued the chance to express with legislation had put people off. The research also views safely and ask questions, and felt that that had demonstrated, however, that the majority of adopters—a improved their relationship with others. We believe that staggering 90%—had expressed a strong preference to parents should retain the right to withdraw children adopt a child with a similar ethnicity and that it was the aged 15 or under because they know their children best, failure to explore such factors with potential adopters but equally we know that the vast majority of parents that prevented children from black and minority ethnic would like their children to have access to sex and backgrounds from being considered. In fact, in the one relationship education. For children whose parents do case in which a social worker did do that, the prospective not talk to them about these issues, this could be critical parents went on to successfully adopt a child with a in keeping them safe, especially given that a third of different ethnicity. 257 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 258

[Lisa Nandy] We thought that the Minister had allayed our concerns about foster carers in Committee until it transpired the I reiterate that the amendment would not ensure that following day that the Government’s second change of children were matched only with prospective adopters heart meant that only one foster child would be covered, with the same background as them. Crucially, however, despite the fact that many foster carers look after more it would ensure that thoughtful consideration was given than one child. I was grateful for the Minister’s assurance to ethnicity so that such factors were explored and we that he would monitor the impact of the policy. Given did not put off people from adopting a child who could that it has come into force and that he assured us in otherwise find a loving home because they mistakenly Committee that it would be monitored from April, will thought that they would not be right for that child, he say whether the Department has begun the monitoring which we think is a crying shame. programme, how it is going about it, whether there is any independence in the evaluation and, if so, who is Amendment 35 is designed to ensure that we do not conducting it? What, if any, evidence has been collected unwittingly create misconceptions for parents. We agree over the past two and a half months, and when does the with the Government, as we said at length in Committee, Department expect to publish a report? Will he ensure that it is critical to most children to have an ongoing, that the report is made available to Members of the good-quality relationship with their mum and dad, but House as soon as it is published, given how important we are concerned about the practical impact of clause 11. this matter is to many Members from all parts of the I will not rehearse all the debates that we had in House and given that it affects vulnerable children in Committee, but the Minister was right to say that he did every constituency? not want to be too prescriptive about what involvement Finally, amendments 36 and 37 would ensure that meant. That is why our amendment would define what children’s views and sibling arrangements are taken into involvement is not, in line with the explanatory notes. It account when courts scrutinise or change a care plan. is important that that is put in the Bill and that no room Although we support the Government’s efforts to focus is left for doubt, given that there have already been courts on the long-term aspects of care plans, we are headlines in this country and that misconceptions have concerned that, in the real world, the acute pressures on been created. I hope that the Minister will accept that social workers, independent reviewing officers and guardians amendment. will mean that important aspects may be missed. Does I do not need to rehearse why new clause 19 is so the Minister have anything concrete to report from the important, as it would prevent the harrowing and aggressive discussion that he was holding with independent reviewing questioning of young witnesses in court. This morning, officers about how he will alleviate that pressure? Court we received the welcome announcement that the scrutiny has helped social workers to ensure that they have Government are trialling pre-recorded cross-examination access to resources and has changed care plans to allow in Leeds, Liverpool and Kingston upon Thames. I am sibling contact. I was grateful for the Minister’s assurances sure that the Minister appreciates the urgency of this in Committee that there is nothing to prevent courts matter as more child grooming cases are brought to from looking at this matter, but given the pressure that trial. Will he say when the pilots will start, how they will family courts are under, especially after the legal aid be evaluated, whether there will be any measures alongside cuts, we think that it is too important to leave to chance. them to prevent the aggressive questioning that we have I am grateful for the opportunity to set out those points, heard so much about and how soon they will be rolled but immensely disappointed at the lack of scrutiny that out? we have given these aspects of the Bill today. I would now like to give other people the opportunity to contribute. As I am sure the Minister is aware, the implementation of section 28 of the YouthJustice and Criminal Evidence Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con): I rise to speak to new Act 1999 alone will not be enough to support vulnerable clause 20 as a parent of two boys, one of whom is still at witnesses. New clause 19 also proposes specialist court school and one of whom left recently. I also want to sittings for children who have been sexually abused, speak for the many parents in my constituency who, like with trained judges and barristers, and the restriction of me, are concerned about the provision of sex education multiple cross-examinations. Will he say whether there in this country. will be a cap on the number of lawyers who may I am pleased that new clause 20 proposes to redefine cross-examine a witness? I would be grateful if he could sex education as “sex and relationship education”, although give more information about that. I would have put it the other way around, with the emphasis I tabled new clause 18 notwithstanding our strong on relationships rather than sex. After agreeing on the opposition to the under-occupation penalty, known to wording, I part company with those who tabled the new some as the bedroom tax. We are extremely concerned clause. that that policy will put people off taking care of children whom they otherwise would have looked after 5.30 pm because of the financial implications. We want to ensure I want to concentrate on one aspect of the new clause: that, at a time when Ministers share our concerns about the implications of the proposal for a centralised curriculum. the acute shortage of foster carers and adopters, we do In March, the current PSHE legal framework was given not make the situation worse. We were struck by the backing in this House by the Under-Secretary of State evidence from Adoption UK about the problems for for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for South prospective adopters and special guardians, which was West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), when she published the provided by Grandparents Plus. We are very concerned results of the Government’s recent PSHE review. She stated: that the National Housing Federation estimates that “To allow teachers the flexibility to deliver high-quality PSHE the discretionary housing fund will fall short by we consider it unnecessary to provide new standardised frameworks £100 million. or programmes of study. Teachers are best placed to understand 259 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 260 the needs of their pupils and do not need additional central responsibilities that sexual maturity brings…schools should always prescription.”—[Official Report, 21 March 2013; Vol. 560, c. 52WS.] work in partnership with parents, consulting them regularly on I believe that was right and that the curriculum centralisation the content of sex and relationship education programmes.” that would inevitably follow endeavours such as new The majority of respondents to the recent Government clause 20 would not advance the cause of PSHE or, consultation on PSHE believed that parental engagement critically, the interests of our young people. To clarify, was crucial, as was providing parents with every possible we currently have compulsory sex education in secondary and practical opportunity to interact and engage with schools, but governors of primary schools are at liberty PSHE provision. to authorise the teaching of sex education if they think Although we should understand the important role it appropriate. that sex education provides, we should not aspire for it narrowly within one context. Current procedures provide Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op): I understand a mechanism for drawing in parents who perhaps do that the hon. Lady’s concern is about a centralised not talk to their children about sex and relationships, curriculum. What does she make of her Government’s and encourage those who do to continue with that. At proposal to put gardening and composting on the national present, all secondary schools must provide sex education curriculum, as well as financial education and compound by law, and although there is no centrally determined interest? Surely along with those two Cs we should also curriculum, governors and teachers, in conversation put consent. and consultation with parents, should develop a curriculum on a school-by-school basis, according to the ethos of Fiona Bruce: I am vice-chair of the all-party group on the school. When properly applied, that decentralised financial education for young people and I hugely welcome approach means that this sensitive subject can be framed that proposal. I think it is an essential ingredient of in a manner that has regard for parental views and enabling our young people to mature and face society concerns.If the curriculum were set centrally, that could when they leave school. and probably would disappear. At present we do not have a centralised curriculum, Currently, a good school should always contact parents and I cannot support proposals for the centralisation of to let them know when the sex education curriculum is the curriculum as suggested by the champions of the taught, precisely so that they can follow up with their new clause. Research demonstrates that children and own conversations at home. The current procedures young people want to receive their initial sex and relationship encourage parental involvement, but new clause 20 education from their parents and families, with school would serve only to diminish it. I cannot agree that that and other adults building on that later. I am not naive is the right approach at a time when many people are and I fully appreciate that many parents do not fulfil concerned that we live in a society in which opportunities their parental duties in that respect. That is why it is for parental involvement and influence need strengthening essential that we have sex education in senior schools, and encouraging, not reducing and diminishing. and I do not deny the importance of that for one Throughout this afternoon’s debate, I have repeatedly minute, for many of the reasons mentioned by the hon. heard Ministers and others say how important it is to Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) when she introduced take into account parents’ views with regard to other the new clause. aspects of education. Surely that should apply in this critical area of a child’s education. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): That does not mean that I am complacent about the What does the hon. Lady make of the recent Ofsted current approach—far from it. There is tremendous report on the teaching of PSHE, which mentions its room for improvement in our relationship and sex variability around the country, particularly in sex and education, not least the fact that greater emphasis needs relationship education? to be placed on the duty to consult parents and communicate clearly with them about what is being Fiona Bruce: I am glad the hon. Lady raised that taught. Some head teachers believe they must exclusively point, because if some of the suggestions that I will use whatever resources are recommended by their local come to in my speech were implemented, we would have authority, but in fact a plethora of other good materials much better sex education throughout the country than provided by outside agencies can be used, such as the we do at present. She is right. Much still needs to be Evaluate: Informing Choice programme. Other head done, and I said in my introductory remarks that I am teachers do not accept that the decision should be for concerned about the standard of sex education in our the governing body, which has a vital role. I encourage schools, although I do not believe a centralised curriculum governors actively to take up that role in all schools. will improve that. New clause 20 would be a mistake and I hope the Several hon. Members rose— Government firmly reject it. However, I ask Ministers to tell us what plans the Government have to make the Fiona Bruce: I will not take any other interventions, current decentralised approach to the critical area of because it would reduce the time for other speakers. sex education work more effectively, so that parents are more and not less involved, as is intended, and so help The Department for Education’s sex and relationship our next generation to form and sustain healthy, fulfilling education guidance honours the involvement of parents, and enduring personal relationships and family lives. making plain the need for parental involvement in the content of PSHE. It states: “Parents are the key people in teaching their children about sex Ann Coffey (Stockport) (Lab): I rise to speak to new and relationships, maintaining the culture and ethos of the family, clause 4, which stands in the name of my right hon. helping their children cope with the emotional and physical Friend the Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East aspects of growing up, and preparing them for the challenges and (Paul Goggins), who unfortunately cannot be in the 261 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 262

[Ann Coffey] statistics I quoted earlier. What difference have we made as parents if children in our care end up on the streets, Chamber because of a prior commitment. He has been in jail or with disabling mental health problems—another a tremendous campaigner, along with the Fostering generation doomed to mirror the lives of their parents? Network, for allowing young people leaving care to Why would we not let them stay with their foster remain with their foster carers until they are at least 21. carers for those important extra three years? Cost must Currently, children in care leave on or before their of course be a calculation, but it is minimal. Loughborough 18th birthday, which usually means that children in university calculated that on average it cost only £17,500 foster care must leave their foster carer. Every year, per local authority per year. There will be a far bigger hundreds of the most vulnerable young people have to public cost in providing services to a future generation leave home at age 17, but the average age for leaving of failing parents, or in helping young people through home in the UK is 24. drug and alcohol addiction. The human cost in misery The statistics on outcomes for care leavers are not is incalculable, as is the cost to society in the lost good. One third of those living on the streets have a opportunities of the contribution that might have been background in care, and almost a quarter of the adult made if vulnerable young people had been better supported prison population have spent time in care. Local authorities into independence. have a duty in care planning guidance to ensure that For many young people, their scarring experiences young people leave their foster care when they are ready will make their life a tough one. The statistics speak for and not before, but in 2011-12 only 320 young people— themselves: young people leaving care need more support, 5%—remained with their foster carers after they reached not less. Our amendment would ensure that they receive age 18. Research shows that the longer a young person that continuing support by being allowed to stay in can stay with a foster family, the more successful they foster care until they are 21 if they want to. I look are later. forward to a positive response from the Minister. In 2008, the Labour Government set up a “staying put” pilot to assess the benefits of allowing children to Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): I am proud to be stay in care and with foster carers. The pilot reported in a patron of Devon Rape Crisis, which, like all of us in 2012 and found that established family relationships this House, is deeply concerned about sexual violence and stability make a positive difference to young people against women and girls. All of us in this House are in care as they become adults. That is not a surprising particularly concerned about the extent to which young outcome—one of the basic values of our culture is the people are accessing their information about sex from importance of families in providing a nurturing and violent pornography.The influence of violent pornography secure base for young people to make the transition to is to normalise distorted relationships. It teaches some independence. Not only that, but foster families can young men that it is normal for women to enjoy violent become families for life. My aunt and uncle had long-term sex, and to have a total lack of understanding about foster children. To this day, contact continues, as we what constitutes consent. Disturbingly, many young would expect in other families. women are being pressured into accepting deeply abnormal However, there have been no moves to roll out that and often very violent relationships. scheme. It has been left to councils to decide what I completely accept that many parents wish to take provision to fund. The provision is therefore a power a on the role of delivering sensitive teaching on relationships council can choose to exercise rather than a duty to in a home environment, but let us be absolutely clear provide a service. In effect, it is a postcode lottery. We that that is not happening for many young girls. The have taken the responsibility of parenting those children, recent outrages in Oxford and in too many of our towns having judged that their parents’ care is not good enough. show that young women are being predated on by In doing so, we have effectively said that the care system violent and often much older men. Young women have will provide better parenting. had no training in how to say no, or an understanding Since 2010, the Government have stressed the importance that it is okay to say no. Too often, there is no one for of treating looked-after children the same as we would them to confide in. I put it to the House, therefore, that treat our own children. Planning for the transition of we need to have sex and relationship education in our care leavers to adulthood should be founded on the curriculum: if it is not there, it will not happen. Too principle: is this good enough for my own child? often when we teach sex in schools, it is about plumbing and prevention. Many young people in care have experienced poor parental care, emotional neglect and abuse, and disruptive care placements. An increasing number of young people Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): The hon. Lady’s are coming into care in their early teens, often with words echo those of Ofsted, which pointed out that the complex needs. The care system is failing these children. secondary sex and relationship curriculum is not only They are often the ones who run away or go missing, too focused on plumbing but does not build on the making them vulnerable to harm, including child sexual skills that young people need to decide whether they exploitation. It is recognised that we need to cut the want to enter a relationship—the skills to say no. number of out-of-area placements, with local authorities making placements nearer home. The provision of Dr Wollaston: It is about teaching girls to say no, and supported foster placements will need to be considered teaching young men to understand that no is no. That as an alternative to children’s home placements many needs to be delivered in an age-appropriate way. It is not miles away, so that we can have more vulnerable children about frightening young people or taking it out of the in foster care at 18. Although they are adults at 18, they hands of parents. In fact, many parents feel relieved are still vulnerable adults, which is demonstrated by the that other people are delivering it. 263 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 264

There are very competent peer educators out there, number of health problems, ranging from wheezing and ready to deliver these programmes in schools, but I am asthma to respiratory infections and bacterial meningitis, afraid that if it cannot be counted, it often does not and doubles the risk of sudden infant death. count. It is important, then, to establish the principle These attitudes are backed up by survey data from that these programmes should be happening; then, of the British Lung Foundation that shows that many course, we would need to discuss the matter further, children are uncomfortable with adults smoking around because it would need to be delivered in an evidence-based them, but feel unable to influence smoking behaviours. way. I get the message from teachers that they often do Some 31% of children aged eight to 15 exposed to not feel they have the skills to deliver these programmes. second-hand smoke in a car reported having asked the Let us make sure that this is delivered in an age-appropriate smoker to stop. Alarmingly, however, a greater share— way and by the right professionals, then, but first let us 34%—had refrained from asking because they were make sure that it happens, because this is about reducing either too frightened or embarrassed. As Members of violence against women. We can send out the message Parliament, it is our duty to act in the interests of the that this is important and deliver it well. public we serve and represent, including children and young people, and it is high time that we heeded what our young people are telling us. In the interests of 5.45 pm preserving public health, the only way to protect completely Alex Cunningham: I rise to speak to new clause 17, in against second-hand smoke is to make homes and cars my name and those of other hon. Members, which entirely smoke free. A good starting point would be to would provide for a ban on smoking in private vehicles ban smoking in cars when children are present. when children are present. It is a child protection issue. The Government’s response to this developing crisis, I could devote much of my time to the strong influence in the form of an informative educational campaign of the tobacco lobby in this place and knocking down that has just been launched, is certainly welcome, but the idea that the new clause is my way of expanding the the message about the dangers of passive smoking must nanny state, but I will not. Instead, I shall address the be spread even wider. We must stop this sort of behaviour, simple decision that the new clause invites Members to so this campaign is of course welcome. Private vehicles make: do we act to protect children and ban smoking in are considered private spaces—people argue that it is cars, or do we leave them to suffer not just the discomfort their private space—but it is the young person’s private but the tremendous health problems they will otherwise space as well, so I hope that the House will support my encounter? In Committee, there was considerable sympathy proposal and that the Government will accept it. Opposing for the intention, with some reservation about the a ban on smoking in private vehicles when children are introduction of an education programme for offenders, present assumes that the right to smoke trumps the but the new clause is much simpler: if a person smokes right of the child to be free from harmful smoke. It does in a car when a child is present, they would face a not. I have stressed in the past, and do so again, that £60 fine—no awareness course, no complications, no this is not just a health issue, but an issue of child compromise. protection. I hope the Government will now accept it. The principle of such a ban has gained much support Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD): I want from fellow Members on both sides of the House. A briefly to draw attention to new clause 5, which addresses majority of people understand that smoking is harmful the issue of young carers and the fact that the good to our health, particularly the health of children, and intentions of the Government in the Care Bill to extend most would not expose children to smoke in a vehicle. new rights to adult carers have inadvertently created a In a survey of 10,000 adults carried out by Action on gap that leaves young carers in a position where they Smoking and Health that included more than 2,000 would be less well favoured than adult carers in the smokers and which asked about the car people travelled future. in most frequently, only 6% said that people should smoke whenever they liked. Some 71% said that smoking As a result of the new clause, tabled by a cross-party was not allowed full stop and 9% said that smoking was group of Members, the Government can ensure that not allowed if there were non-smokers or children travelling. young carers are treated in a way that is fair and Despite that, however, research from the British Lung appropriate for them and are not placed in a position Foundation found that more than 51% of eight to where they are undertaking inappropriate and burdensome 15-year-olds reported exposure to cigarette smoke when caring responsibilities. I hope that the Government will confined in a car in the UK. be able to give us a good sign of intent to deliver on this agenda. They are doing a great job for adults in the Public opinion is firmly on the side of change. A Care Bill and, in carers week, we need to do the same survey by YouGov found that 85% of adults in north-east for young carers. England, where my constituency is situated, said that they would support laws to ban smoking in cars carrying under-18s. One factor that sets children apart from Several hon. Members rose— other groups is that they are less likely to have a say on whether they are exposed to second-hand smoke in a Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. Before I call the right vehicle in which they are travelling. Given that passive hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd), smoking is particularly harmful to children, we have a may I remind him that we have a very short period left recipe for a public health time bomb. With their quicker and that I need to leave a few minutes for the Minister? respiration rates, smaller airways, less mature immune systems and greater absorption of pollutants, children Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): I would are at an increased risk from passive smoking in an like to speak briefly to amendments Nos 5, 6, 7 and 8, enclosed space. Passive smoking increases the risk of a which seek to introduce greater flexibility and understanding 265 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 266

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd] undertook the programme. I will be unable to address that point as fully as I should like in the time allotted, of the 26-week target for care proceedings. Nobody in but one of the motivations behind the amendments I this place would deny that that target is very helpful and am speaking to—by the way, I am hugely indebted to we hope that, in most cases, we will be able to meet it. the NSPCC for its assistance in this matter—is that But we know—for example from the Norgrove report— some cases should be exempted from the limit from the that, on average, cases take up to 61 weeks: 48 weeks in outset. Although the Bill as drafted would allow for family court proceedings. The Justice Committee, of incremental eight-week extensions, practitioners in the which I am a member, held an inquiry into the operation field have warned that they would need to know at the of family courts. In its evidence to us, Barnardo’s made beginning of proceedings how much time they have to the point: work with the family, in order to secure the best possible “Two months of delay in making decisions in the best interest outcome. of a child equates to 1% of childhood that cannot be restored.” Equally worryingly, practitioners warn that social For this reason, both the all-party group on child workers could be deterred from seeking extensions other protection and the Justice Committee welcomed the than in highly exceptional circumstances, as the “specific Government’s aim of reducing unnecessary delay in the justification” test in clause 14(7) may be perceived as a care system. barrier in borderline cases. That is why amendment 5 would allow courts to exempt certain cases from the Care must be taken with regard to the target as well. 26-week limit from the very start of proceedings if Clause 14 provides the starting point for courts in evidence relating to a planned intervention or programme setting a time for cases; proceedings should come to an requiring a longer period was presented to the court, or end within 26 weeks, as I mentioned. But there is some if the court considered it necessary to permit additional ambiguity as to when courts should deem an extension time to safeguard the child’s welfare. appropriate. As the College of Social Work and the Family Rights Group have argued, there is a genuine Amendments 7 and 8 relate to clause 17, which risk that the proposed 26-week limit could result in too introduces significant reforms to the way in which courts much focus on procedure and not enough on the welfare scrutinise care plans. I do not have time to go into the of the child. context; all I would say is that I, too, am disappointed that our time is limited today. These are very important The vast majority of cases will be concluded within matters. I have skimmed through what I was going to six months, but deciding on permanent options can say—I am grateful that I was able to catch your eye, take longer for some children, not always due to problems Madam Deputy Speaker—and I know that the NSPCC with the court process or unnecessary delay. Social and many other organisations will be bitterly disappointed workers will attest that situations can change in the that we have had to truncate such important debates in course of proceedings; for example, when relatives present this way. themselves as possible carers late in the process. The Family Rights Group has pointed out that, under the new limit, if family members are late in offering themselves Mr Timpson: This group of amendments covers a as carers there may well not be enough time for the wide range of issues relating to the care and protection relevant assessments to be carried out. of children. As I will be unable to address all the points Equally, placing a child with grandparents, aunts, made, I will endeavour to write to all hon. Members in uncles, cousins or other siblings can reinforce aspects of response to their amendments and the questions they a child’s identity. In many cases, however, relatives will posed, particularly the hon. Member for Wigan (Lisa be reluctant to offer this option if they think that there Nandy), who has been very convivial and constructive is still a chance that the child will be able to be returned during the passage of this Bill, and my hon. Friend the to his or her parents. Member for East Worthingand Shoreham (Tim Loughton), who has raised a number of important areas of debate, I anticipate that Government Members will point out particularly in making some powerful points about that the safeguard for granting extensions to cases is returning home from care. I will look at those points robust enough to allow for complications to be ironed extremely carefully and am happy to discuss them with out. Sadly, I have it on good evidence that judges are, in him on another occasion. some cases, already imposing a 26-week deadline on proceedings even before the limit has been introduced. I want to focus on a number of issues about which I It is crucial that time considerations do not supersede have some important points to make. They are: care the welfare of the child concerned. What is more, some leavers, young carers, fostering for adoption, child witnesses intervention programmes take longer than 26 weeks and sex and relationship education. On carer leavers, due to parents undergoing treatment for substance misuse new clause 4 considers “staying put” arrangements, issues and similar problems. The pilot boroughs— where care leavers live with their former foster carer Hammersmith and Fulham, Westminster, and Kensington after they have left care. Many hon. Members have and Chelsea—have estimated that 25 to 30 per cent. of expressed their support for new clause 4, and I would all cases will take longer than the 26-week limit. welcome the opportunity to discuss how we can extend those arrangements. The legislative framework relating Intensive family programmes, such as the NSPCC’s to care leavers is comprehensive and clear. I have written infant and family team, are another example. The to all directors of children’s services asking them to programme was developed in the United States and is prioritise “staying put” arrangements. We have also now being piloted in the United Kingdom. A four-year issued practical guidance on tax and benefits issues. We evaluation of the programme in the US showed improved are monitoring “staying put”arrangements and reviewing outcomes for children and adults in all groups that local progress through Ofsted inspections and feedback 267 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 268 from care leaver groups. If no progress is being made, I 6pm will consider whether legislation is required, but I do Debate interrupted (Programme Order, 25 February). not believe we should make that change only two years The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question already after changing the statutory framework. proposed from the Chair (Standing Order No. 83E), On young carers, in Committee we heard heart-felt That the clause be read a Second time. arguments about the need to do more for young carers. Question negatived. I promised to reflect carefully on the arguments for legislative change. Since then I have discussed the matter The Deputy Speaker then put forthwith the Questions with the Minister for care services, my hon. Friend the necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb), and we at that time (Standing Order No. 83E). have agreed that our joint aim is to ensure that young carers are protected. We firmly believe that taking a New Clause 6 “whole family” approach to the assessment of care needs will be the key to achieving just that. I have now STAFF TO CHILD RATIOS:OFSTED-REGISTERED given the matter careful thought and, with the changes being introduced by the Care Bill for adult carers, I am CHILDMINDER SETTINGS persuaded that the time is right to see what we can do to ‘(1) This section applies to Ofsted-registered childminder remove any barriers that may be preventing these vulnerable settings. young people and their families from receiving the (2) The ratio of staff to children under the age of eight must life-changing support they need. be no less than one to six, where— (a) a maximum of three children may be young children; I have asked officials to look at how the legislation for (b) a maximum of one child is under the age of one. young carers might be changed so that rights and responsibilities are clearer to young carers and practitioners (3) Any care provided by childminders for older children must not adversely affect the care of children receiving early years alike. We will also look at how we can ensure that provision. children’s legislation works with adults’ legislation to (4) If a childminder can demonstrate to parents, carers and support the linking of assessments, as set out in the inspectors, that the individual needs of all the children are being Care Bill, to enable “whole family” approaches. We will met, then in addition to the ratio set out in subsection (2), they ensure that interested parties, including hon. Members, may also care for— are consulted on that work. (a) babies who are siblings of the children referred to in There is a strong consensus about the policy intention subsection (2), or behind fostering for adoption: that children should be (b) their own baby. placed as early as possible in a stable placement. (5) If children aged between four and five years only attend the Amendment 33 would mean that clause 1 would bite childminding setting outside of normal school hours or the too early for concurrent planning. I listened to the normal school term time, they may be cared for at the same time concerns raised in Committee about the impact on as three other young children, provided that at no time the ratio of staff to children under the age of eight exceeds one to six. kinship carers, but there is no intention that kinship carers should be overlooked as a consequence of this (6) If a childminder employs an assistant or works with another childminder, each childminder or assistant may care for clause. I am pleased to reassure hon. Members that I the number of children permitted by the ratios specified in am giving consideration to amending the clause to be subsections (2), (4), and (5). clearer that local authorities must first consider placing (7) Children may only be left in the sole care of a childminder’s a child with relatives and friends before they consider a assistant for two hours in a single day. “fostering for adoption” placement. This is an issue that (8) Childminders must obtain the permission of a child’s I expect to be returned to in the other place, and I know parents or carers before that child can be left in the sole care of a that Members will welcome that reassurance. I know childminder’s assistant. that hon. Members will also be pleased by today’s (9) The ratios in subsections (2), (4) and (5) apply to announcement from the Secretary of State for Justice childminders providing overnight care, provided that the children on child witnesses. That represents an important move are continuously monitored, which may be through the use of forward. electronic equipment. On personal, social and health education, we all (10) For the purposes of this section a child is— recognise that this is an important issue, but we do not (a) a “young child” up until 1 September following his or have unanimity on what constitutes the best approach. her fifth birthday. The expectation that all schools should teach PSHE is (b) an “older child” after the 1 September following his or outlined in the introduction to the framework of the her fifth birthday.’.—(Mrs Hodgson.) proposed new national curriculum. It is not a statutory Brought up. requirement, however, as we strongly believe that teachers Question put, That the clause be added to the Bill. need the flexibility to use their professional judgment to decide when and how best to provide PSHE in their The House divided: Ayes 222, Noes 303. local circumstances. The Government do not believe Division No. 24] [6 pm that the right of parents to withdraw their children from sex and relationship education should be diminished in AYES the way proposed. We see no need to amend the existing Abbott, Ms Diane Allen, Mr Graham legislation, which provides a clear and workable model Abrahams, Debbie Ashworth, Jonathan for schools and parents. Moreover, the new provision Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Austin, Ian would place a disproportionate burden on teachers, Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Bailey, Mr Adrian who would have to make and defend decisions on what Alexander, Heidi Bain, Mr William constitutes “sufficient maturity”— Ali, Rushanara Balls, rh Ed 269 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 270

Barron, rh Mr Kevin Francis, Dr Hywel Murphy, rh Mr Jim Skinner, Mr Dennis Bayley, Hugh Gardiner, Barry Murphy, rh Paul Slaughter, Mr Andy Beckett, rh Margaret Gilmore, Sheila Murray, Ian Smith, rh Mr Andrew Begg, Dame Anne Glass, Pat Nandy, Lisa Smith, Nick Benn, rh Hilary Glindon, Mrs Mary Nash, Pamela Smith, Owen Berger, Luciana Godsiff, Mr Roger O’Donnell, Fiona Spellar, rh Mr John Betts, Mr Clive Goodman, Helen Onwurah, Chi Straw, rh Mr Jack Blenkinsop, Tom Greatrex, Tom Osborne, Sandra Stringer, Graham Blomfield, Paul Green, Kate Owen, Albert Stuart, Ms Gisela Blunkett, rh Mr David Griffith, Nia Pearce, Teresa Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Gwynne, Andrew Perkins, Toby Tami, Mark Brennan, Kevin Hain, rh Mr Peter Phillipson, Bridget Thomas, Mr Gareth Brown, Lyn Hanson, rh Mr David Pound, Stephen Thornberry, Emily Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Harman, rh Ms Harriet Qureshi, Yasmin Timms, rh Stephen Brown, Mr Russell Harris, Mr Tom Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Turner, Karl Bryant, Chris Healey, rh John Reed, Mr Jamie Twigg, Derek Burden, Richard Hendrick, Mark Reed, Mr Steve Twigg, Stephen Burnham, rh Andy Hermon, Lady Reynolds, Emma Umunna, Mr Chuka Byrne, rh Mr Liam Hillier, Meg Reynolds, Jonathan Vaz, Valerie Campbell, Mr Alan Hilling, Julie Riordan, Mrs Linda Walley, Joan Campbell, Mr Gregory Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Ritchie, Ms Margaret Watson, Mr Tom Campbell, Mr Ronnie Hoey, Kate Robertson, John Watts, Mr Dave Caton, Martin Hood, Mr Jim Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Whitehead, Dr Alan Champion, Sarah Hunt, Tristram Rotheram, Steve Williams, Hywel Chapman, Jenny Irranca-Davies, Huw Roy, Mr Frank Williamson, Chris Clarke, rh Mr Tom Jackson, Glenda Ruane, Chris Winnick, Mr David Clwyd, rh Ann James, Mrs Siân C. Ruddock, rh Dame Joan Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Coaker, Vernon Jamieson, Cathy Sarwar, Anas Wood, Mike Coffey, Ann Jarvis, Dan Sawford, Andy Woodcock, John Cooper, Rosie Johnson, rh Alan Seabeck, Alison Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Cooper, rh Yvette Johnson, Diana Shannon, Jim Wright, David Corbyn, Jeremy Jones, Graham Sharma, Mr Virendra Wright, Mr Iain Crausby, Mr David Jones, Helen Sheridan, Jim Tellers for the Ayes: Creagh, Mary Jones, Susan Elan Shuker, Gavin Mr David Hamilton and Creasy, Stella Keeley, Barbara Simpson, David Phil Wilson Cruddas, Jon Kendall, Liz Cryer, John Khan, rh Sadiq Cunningham, Alex Lammy, rh Mr David NOES Cunningham, Mr Jim Lavery, Ian Adams, Nigel Browne, Mr Jeremy Cunningham, Sir Tony Lazarowicz, Mark Afriyie, Adam Bruce, Fiona Curran, Margaret Leslie, Chris Aldous, Peter Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm Dakin, Nic Lewell-Buck, Emma Amess, Mr David Buckland, Mr Robert Danczuk, Simon Lewis, Mr Ivan Andrew, Stuart Burley, Mr Aidan Darling, rh Mr Alistair Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Burns, Conor David, Wayne Lucas, Caroline Bacon, Mr Richard Burrowes, Mr David Davidson, Mr Ian Mactaggart, Fiona Baker, Norman Burstow, rh Paul Davies, Geraint Mahmood, Shabana Baldry, Sir Tony Byles, Dan De Piero, Gloria Malhotra, Seema Barclay, Stephen Cable, rh Vince Denham, rh Mr John Mann, John Barker, rh Gregory Cairns, Alun Docherty, Thomas Marsden, Mr Gordon Baron, Mr John Cameron, rh Mr David Dodds, rh Mr Nigel McCann, Mr Michael Barwell, Gavin Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. McClymont, Gregg Bebb, Guto Carmichael, Neil Donohoe, Mr Brian H. McCrea, Dr William Beith, rh Sir Alan Carswell, Mr Douglas Doran, Mr Frank McDonagh, Siobhain Bellingham, Mr Henry Chishti, Rehman Doughty, Stephen McDonald, Andy Beresford, Sir Paul Clark, rh Greg Dowd, Jim McFadden, rh Mr Pat Berry, Jake Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Doyle, Gemma McGovern, Alison Bingham, Andrew Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Dromey, Jack McGovern, Jim Binley, Mr Brian Coffey, Dr Thérèse Dugher, Michael McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Birtwistle, Gordon Collins, Damian Durkan, Mark McKechin, Ann Blackwood, Nicola Cox, Mr Geoffrey Eagle, Ms Angela McKenzie, Mr Iain Blunt, Mr Crispin Crabb, Stephen Eagle, Maria McKinnell, Catherine Boles, Nick Crockart, Mike Edwards, Jonathan Meacher, rh Mr Michael Bone, Mr Peter Davey, rh Mr Edward Ellman, Mrs Louise Meale, Sir Alan Bottomley, Sir Peter Davies, Glyn Engel, Natascha Mearns, Ian Bradley, Karen Davies, Philip Evans, Chris Miller, Andrew Brake, rh Tom Davis, rh Mr David Farrelly, Paul Moon, Mrs Madeleine Bray, Angie de Bois, Nick Field, rh Mr Frank Morden, Jessica Brazier, Mr Julian Dinenage, Caroline Fitzpatrick, Jim Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Bridgen, Andrew Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Flello, Robert Morris, Grahame M. Brine, Steve Dorries, Nadine Flint, rh Caroline (Easington) Brokenshire, James Doyle-Price, Jackie Flynn, Paul Mudie, Mr George Brooke, Annette Drax, Richard 271 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 272

Duddridge, James Hurd, Mr Nick Paice, rh Sir James Sturdy, Julian Duncan, rh Mr Alan Jackson, Mr Stewart Parish, Neil Swales, Ian Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain James, Margot Patel, Priti Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Dunne, Mr Philip Javid, Sajid Pawsey, Mark Swinson, Jo Ellis, Michael Jenkin, Mr Bernard Penrose, John Syms, Mr Robert Ellison, Jane Johnson, Gareth Perry, Claire Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Elphicke, Charlie Johnson, Joseph Phillips, Stephen Teather, Sarah Eustice, George Jones, Andrew Pickles, rh Mr Eric Thornton, Mike Evans, Graham Jones, rh Mr David Pincher, Christopher Thurso, John Evennett, Mr David Jones, Mr Marcus Poulter, Dr Daniel Timpson, Mr Edward Fabricant, Michael Kawczynski, Daniel Prisk, Mr Mark Tomlinson, Justin Farron, Tim Kelly, Chris Pritchard, Mark Tredinnick, David Featherstone, Lynne Kirby, Simon Pugh, John Truss, Elizabeth Foster, rh Mr Don Knight, rh Mr Greg Raab, Mr Dominic Turner, Mr Andrew Fox,rhDrLiam Kwarteng, Kwasi Randall, rh Mr John Tyrie, Mr Andrew Freeman, George Laing, Mrs Eleanor Reckless, Mark Uppal, Paul Freer, Mike Lamb, Norman Redwood, rh Mr John Vaizey, Mr Edward Fuller, Richard Lancaster, Mark Rees-Mogg, Jacob Vara, Mr Shailesh Gale, Sir Roger Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Reid, Mr Alan Vickers, Martin Garnier, Sir Edward Latham, Pauline Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Walker, Mr Charles Garnier, Mark Laws, rh Mr David Robertson, rh Hugh Walker, Mr Robin Gauke, Mr David Leadsom, Andrea Rogerson, Dan Wallace, Mr Ben George, Andrew Lee, Jessica Rosindell, Andrew Ward, Mr David Gibb, Mr Nick Lee, Dr Phillip Ruffley, Mr David Watkinson, Dame Angela Gilbert, Stephen Leech, Mr John Rutley, David Weatherley, Mike Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Lefroy, Jeremy Sanders, Mr Adrian Glen, John Leigh, Mr Edward Scott, Mr Lee Webb, Steve Goldsmith, Zac Leslie, Charlotte Selous, Andrew Wharton, James Goodwill, Mr Robert Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Sharma, Alok Wheeler, Heather Gove, rh Michael Lewis, Brandon Shelbrooke, Alec White, Chris Graham, Richard Lidington, rh Mr David Shepherd, Sir Richard Whittaker, Craig Grant, Mrs Helen Lilley, rh Mr Peter Skidmore, Chris Whittingdale, Mr John Gray, Mr James Lloyd, Stephen Smith, Miss Chloe Wiggin, Bill Grayling, rh Chris Lord, Jonathan Smith, Julian Willetts, rh Mr David Green, rh Damian Loughton, Tim Smith, Sir Robert Williams, Mr Mark Greening, rh Justine Luff, Peter Soames, rh Nicholas Williams, Roger Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Lumley, Karen Soubry, Anna Williams, Stephen Griffiths, Andrew Macleod, Mary Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Williamson, Gavin Gummer, Ben Main, Mrs Anne Spencer, Mr Mark Wilson, Mr Rob Gyimah, Mr Sam Maude, rh Mr Francis Stephenson, Andrew Wollaston, Dr Sarah Hague, rh Mr William May, rh Mrs Theresa Stevenson, John Wright, Jeremy Halfon, Robert Maynard, Paul Stewart, Bob Wright, Simon Hames, Duncan McCartney, Jason Stewart, Iain Young, rh Sir George Hammond, rh Mr Philip McCartney, Karl Stewart, Rory Zahawi, Nadhim Hammond, Stephen McIntosh, Miss Anne Streeter, Mr Gary Hands, Greg McPartland, Stephen Stride, Mel Tellers for the Noes: Harper, Mr Mark McVey, Esther Stuart, Mr Graham Anne Milton and Harrington, Richard Menzies, Mark Stunell, rh Andrew Jenny Willott Harris, Rebecca Metcalfe, Stephen Hart, Simon Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Question accordingly negatived. Harvey, Sir Nick Moore, rh Michael Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Morgan, Nicky Hayes, rh Mr John Morris, Anne Marie Heald, Oliver Morris, David New Clause 20 Heath, Mr David Morris, James Heaton-Harris, Chris Mosley, Stephen PERSONAL, SOCIAL AND HEALTH EDUCATION IN Hemming, John Mowat, David MAINTAINED SCHOOLS Henderson, Gordon Mulholland, Greg ‘(1) In section 84(3) of the Education Act 2002 (curriculum Hendry, Charles Mundell, rh David foundation subjects for the first, second and third key stages), Herbert, rh Nick Munt, Tessa after paragraph (g) there is inserted— Hinds, Damian Murray, Sheryll “(ga) personal, social and health education”. Hoban, Mr Mark Murrison, Dr Andrew Hollingbery, George Neill, Robert (2) In section 85(4) of the Education Act 2002 (curriculum Hollobone, Mr Philip Newmark, Mr Brooks foundation subjects for the fourth key stage), at the end there is Hopkins, Kris Newton, Sarah inserted “, and Horwood, Martin Nokes, Caroline (d) personal, social and health education.” Howarth, Sir Gerald Norman, Jesse (3) In section 74(1) of the Education and Inspections Howell, John Nuttall, Mr David Act 2006, which (when brought into force) will substitute a new Hughes, rh Simon Offord, Dr Matthew section 85 in the Education Act 2002, in subsection (4) of that Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Opperman, Guy substituted section (foundation subjects for the fourth key stage), Hunter, Mark Osborne, rh Mr George at the end there is inserted “, and Huppert, Dr Julian Ottaway, Richard (d) personal, social and health education.” 273 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 274

(4) Before section 86 of the Education Act 2002 there is (11) For section 405 of the Education Act 1996 there is inserted— substituted— “85B Personal, social and health education “405 Exemption from sex and relationships education (1) For the purposes of this Part, personal, social and health (1) If a pupil of sufficient maturity in attendance at a school to education (“PSHE”) shall include sex and relationship which section 403 applies requests to be wholly or partly excused education, including information about same-sex relationships, from receiving sex and relationships education at the school, the sexual violence, domestic violence and sexual consent. pupil shall be so excused accordingly until the request is (2) The National Curriculum for England is not required to withdrawn. specify attainment targets or assessment arrangements for PSHE (2) The Secretary of State must in regulations define (and section 84(1) has effect accordingly). “sufficient maturity”. (3) The Secretary of State for Education shall set out guidance (3) A statutory instrument containing regulations under to schools and colleges to ensure that a coherent approach to subsection (2) may not be made unless a draft of the instrument personal, social, health and economic education is developed, has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each House including between primary and secondary schools. of Parliament. (4) It is the duty of the governing body and head teacher of (4) The Secretary of State must lay draft regulations before any school in which PSHE is provided in pursuance of this Part Parliament before the end of the period of 3 months beginning to secure that guidance issued under subsection (3) is followed with the day on which this Act is passed.”.’.—(Lisa Nandy.) and that— Brought up, and read the First time. (a) information presented in the course of providing Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:— PSHE should be accurate and balanced; (b) PSHE is taught in a way that is appropriate to the ages The House divided: Ayes 219, Noes 303. of the pupils concerned and to their religious and Division No. 25] [6.16 pm cultural backgrounds, and reflects a reasonable range of religious, cultural and other perspectives; AYES (c) PSHE is taught in a way that endeavours to promote equality, celebrate diversity, and emphasise the Abbott, Ms Diane Creasy, Stella importance of both rights and responsibilities. Abrahams, Debbie Cruddas, Jon Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Cryer, John (5) In the exercise of their functions under this Part so far as Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Cunningham, Alex relating to PSHE, a local authority, governing body or head teacher shall have regard to any guidance issued from time to Alexander, Heidi Cunningham, Mr Jim time by the Secretary of State.”. Ali, Rushanara Cunningham, Sir Tony Allen, Mr Graham Curran, Margaret (5) Section 403 of the Education Act 1996 (sex education: Ashworth, Jonathan Dakin, Nic manner of provision) is amended as set out in subsections (6) Austin, Ian Danczuk, Simon to (9). Bailey, Mr Adrian Darling, rh Mr Alistair (6) In subsection (1), for the words from the beginning to “at a Bain, Mr William David, Wayne maintained school” there is substituted “The governing body or Balls, rh Ed Davidson, Mr Ian other proprietor of any school to which this section applies, and Barron, rh Mr Kevin Davies, Geraint its head teacher, must take such steps as are reasonably Bayley, Hugh De Piero, Gloria practicable to ensure that sex and relationships education is given Beckett, rh Margaret Denham, rh Mr John to registered pupils at the school and that”. Begg, Dame Anne Docherty, Thomas (7) After that subsection there is inserted— Benn, rh Hilary Donohoe, Mr Brian H. “(1ZA) The schools to which this section applies are— Berger, Luciana Doran, Mr Frank (a) maintained schools; Betts, Mr Clive Doughty, Stephen Blenkinsop, Tom Dowd, Jim (b) city technology colleges; Blomfield, Paul Doyle, Gemma (c) city colleges for the technology of the arts; Blunkett, rh Mr David Dromey, Jack (d) Academies. Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Dugher, Michael A reference in this section or section 404 to the governing body Brennan, Kevin Durkan, Mark of a school, in relation to a school within paragraph (b), (c) or Brown, Lyn Eagle, Ms Angela (d), shall be read as a reference to the proprietor of the school.”. Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Eagle, Maria Brown, Mr Russell Edwards, Jonathan (8) In subsection (1A)— Bryant, Chris Ellman, Mrs Louise (a) for “when sex education is given to registered pupils at Buck, Ms Karen Engel, Natascha maintained schools” there is substituted “when sex Burden, Richard Evans, Chris and relationships education is given to registered Burnham, rh Andy Farrelly, Paul pupils at schools to which this section applies”; Byrne, rh Mr Liam Field, rh Mr Frank (b) in paragraph (a), after “, and” there is inserted “learn Campbell, Mr Alan Fitzpatrick, Jim the nature of civil partnership and the importance of Campbell, Mr Ronnie Flello, Robert strong and stable relationships.”; Caton, Martin Flint, rh Caroline (c) paragraph (b) is omitted. Champion, Sarah Flynn, Paul (9) In subsection (1C), for “sex education” there is substituted Chapman, Jenny Francis, Dr Hywel “sex and relationships education”, Clarke, rh Mr Tom Gardiner, Barry (10) In section 579 of the Education Act 1996 (general Clwyd, rh Ann Gilmore, Sheila interpretation), in the definition of “sex education” in Coaker, Vernon Glass, Pat subsection (1)— Coffey, Ann Glindon, Mrs Mary (a) for “sex education” there is substituted “sex and Cooper, Rosie Godsiff, Mr Roger relationships education”; Cooper, rh Yvette Goodman, Helen (b) at the end there is inserted “but does not include Corbyn, Jeremy Greatrex, Tom education about human reproduction provided as Crausby, Mr David Green, Kate part of any science teaching;”. Creagh, Mary Griffith, Nia 275 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 276

Gwynne, Andrew O’Donnell, Fiona Bacon, Mr Richard Evennett, Mr David Hain, rh Mr Peter Onwurah, Chi Baker, Norman Fabricant, Michael Hanson, rh Mr David Osborne, Sandra Baldry, Sir Tony Featherstone, Lynne Harman, rh Ms Harriet Owen, Albert Barclay, Stephen Foster, rh Mr Don Harris, Mr Tom Pearce, Teresa Barker, rh Gregory Fox,rhDrLiam Healey, rh John Perkins, Toby Baron, Mr John Freeman, George Hendrick, Mark Phillipson, Bridget Barwell, Gavin Freer, Mike Hillier, Meg Pound, Stephen Bebb, Guto Fuller, Richard Hilling, Julie Qureshi, Yasmin Beith, rh Sir Alan Gale, Sir Roger Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Bellingham, Mr Henry Garnier, Sir Edward Hoey, Kate Reed, Mr Jamie Beresford, Sir Paul Garnier, Mark Hood, Mr Jim Reed, Mr Steve Berry, Jake Gauke, Mr David Hunt, Tristram Reynolds, Emma Bingham, Andrew George, Andrew Huppert, Dr Julian Reynolds, Jonathan Binley, Mr Brian Gilbert, Stephen Irranca-Davies, Huw Riordan, Mrs Linda Birtwistle, Gordon Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Jackson, Glenda Ritchie, Ms Margaret Blackwood, Nicola Glen, John James, Mrs Siân C. Robertson, John Blunt, Mr Crispin Goldsmith, Zac Jamieson, Cathy Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Boles, Nick Goodwill, Mr Robert Jarvis, Dan Rotheram, Steve Bone, Mr Peter Gove, rh Michael Johnson, rh Alan Roy, Mr Frank Bottomley, Sir Peter Graham, Richard Johnson, Diana Ruane, Chris Bradley, Karen Grant, Mrs Helen Jones, Graham Ruddock, rh Dame Joan Brake, rh Tom Gray, Mr James Jones, Helen Sarwar, Anas Bray, Angie Grayling, rh Chris Jones, Susan Elan Sawford, Andy Brazier, Mr Julian Green, rh Damian Keeley, Barbara Seabeck, Alison Bridgen, Andrew Greening, rh Justine Kendall, Liz Sharma, Mr Virendra Brine, Steve Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Khan, rh Sadiq Sheridan, Jim Brokenshire, James Griffiths, Andrew Lammy, rh Mr David Shuker, Gavin Browne, Mr Jeremy Gummer, Ben Lavery, Ian Skinner, Mr Dennis Bruce, Fiona Gyimah, Mr Sam Lazarowicz, Mark Slaughter, Mr Andy Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm Hague, rh Mr William Leslie, Chris Smith, rh Mr Andrew Buckland, Mr Robert Halfon, Robert Lewell-Buck, Emma Smith, Nick Burley, Mr Aidan Hames, Duncan Lewis, Mr Ivan Smith, Owen Burns, Conor Hammond, rh Mr Philip Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Spellar, rh Mr John Burrowes, Mr David Hammond, Stephen Lucas, Caroline Straw, rh Mr Jack Burstow, rh Paul Harper, Mr Mark Mactaggart, Fiona Stringer, Graham Byles, Dan Harrington, Richard Mahmood, Shabana Stuart, Ms Gisela Cable, rh Vince Harris, Rebecca Malhotra, Seema Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Cairns, Alun Hart, Simon Mann, John Tami, Mark Cameron, rh Mr David Harvey, Sir Nick Marsden, Mr Gordon Thomas, Mr Gareth Campbell, Mr Gregory Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan McCann, Mr Michael Thornberry, Emily Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hayes, rh Mr John McClymont, Gregg Timms, rh Stephen Carmichael, Neil Heald, Oliver McDonagh, Siobhain Turner, Karl Carswell, Mr Douglas Heath, Mr David McDonald, Andy Twigg, Derek Chishti, Rehman Heaton-Harris, Chris McFadden, rh Mr Pat Twigg, Stephen Clark, rh Greg Hemming, John McGovern, Alison Umunna, Mr Chuka Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hendry, Charles McGovern, Jim Vaz, rh Keith Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Herbert, rh Nick McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Vaz, Valerie Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hermon, Lady McKechin, Ann Walley, Joan Collins, Damian Hinds, Damian McKenzie, Mr Iain Watson, Mr Tom Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hoban, Mr Mark McKinnell, Catherine Watts, Mr Dave Crabb, Stephen Hollingbery, George Meacher, rh Mr Michael Whitehead, Dr Alan Crockart, Mike Hollobone, Mr Philip Meale, Sir Alan Williams, Hywel Davey, rh Mr Edward Hopkins, Kris Mearns, Ian Williamson, Chris Davies, Glyn Horwood, Martin Miller, Andrew Winnick, Mr David Davies, Philip Howarth, Sir Gerald Moon, Mrs Madeleine Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Davis, rh Mr David Howell, John Morden, Jessica Wollaston, Dr Sarah de Bois, Nick Hughes, rh Simon Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Wood, Mike Dinenage, Caroline Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Morris, Grahame M. Woodcock, John Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Hunter, Mark Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. Hurd, Mr Nick (Easington) Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Mudie, Mr George Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Jackson, Mr Stewart Wright, David Murphy, rh Mr Jim Dorries, Nadine James, Margot Wright, Mr Iain Murphy, rh Paul Doyle-Price, Jackie Javid, Sajid Murray, Ian Tellers for the Ayes: Drax, Richard Jenkin, Mr Bernard Nandy, Lisa Mr David Hamilton and Duddridge, James Johnson, Gareth Nash, Pamela Phil Wilson Duncan, rh Mr Alan Johnson, Joseph Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Jones, Andrew NOES Dunne, Mr Philip Jones, rh Mr David Adams, Nigel Amess, Mr David Ellis, Michael Jones, Mr Marcus Elphicke, Charlie Kawczynski, Daniel Afriyie, Adam Andrew, Stuart Eustice, George Kelly, Chris Aldous, Peter Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Evans, Graham Kirby, Simon 277 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 278

Knight, rh Mr Greg Pritchard, Mark Willetts, rh Mr David Wright, Simon Kwarteng, Kwasi Pugh, John Williams, Mr Mark Young, rh Sir George Laing, Mrs Eleanor Raab, Mr Dominic Williams, Roger Zahawi, Nadhim Lamb, Norman Randall, rh Mr John Williamson, Gavin Tellers for the Noes: Lancaster, Mark Reckless, Mark Wilson, Mr Rob Greg Hands and Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Redwood, rh Mr John Wright, Jeremy Jenny Willott Latham, Pauline Rees-Mogg, Jacob Laws, rh Mr David Reid, Mr Alan Leadsom, Andrea Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Question accordingly negatived. Lee, Jessica Robertson, rh Hugh Lee, Dr Phillip Rogerson, Dan Clause 6 Leech, Mr John Rosindell, Andrew THE ADOPTION AND CHILDREN ACT REGISTER Lefroy, Jeremy Ruffley, Mr David Leigh, Mr Edward Rutley, David Amendment made: 9, page 5, line 9, at end insert— Leslie, Charlotte Sanders, Mr Adrian ‘( ) In section 129 (disclosure of information), in subsection (2)(a) Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Scott, Mr Lee after “suitable for adoption” insert “or for whom a local authority Lewis, Brandon Selous, Andrew in England is considering adoption”.’.—(Mr Timpson.) Lidington, rh Mr David Shannon, Jim Lilley, rh Mr Peter Sharma, Alok Clause 8 Lloyd, Stephen Shelbrooke, Alec CONTACT: POST-ADOPTION Lord, Jonathan Shepherd, Sir Richard Amendment made: 16, page 8, line 42, at end add— Loughton, Tim Simmonds, Mark Luff, Peter Simpson, David ‘(12) In Part 1 of Schedule 1 to the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Lumley, Karen Skidmore, Chris Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 (civil legal services)— Macleod, Mary Smith, Miss Chloe (a) in paragraph 12(9) (victims of domestic violence and Main, Mrs Anne Smith, Julian family matters), in the definition of “family Maude, rh Mr Francis Smith, Sir Robert enactment” after paragraph (o) insert— May, rh Mrs Theresa Soames, rh Nicholas (a) section 51A of the Adoption and Children Act Maynard, Paul Soubry, Anna 2002 (post-adoption contact orders).”, and McCartney, Jason Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline (b) in paragraph 13(1) (protection of children and family McCartney, Karl Spencer, Mr Mark matters) after paragraph (f) insert— McCrea, Dr William Stephenson, Andrew (g) orders under section 51A of the Adoption and McIntosh, Miss Anne Stevenson, John Children Act 2002 (post-adoption contact).”’.— McPartland, Stephen Stewart, Bob (Mr Timpson.) McVey, Esther Stewart, Iain Menzies, Mark Stewart, Rory Clause 41 Metcalfe, Stephen Streeter, Mr Gary Milton, Anne Stride, Mel INDEPENDENT SPECIAL SCHOOLS AND SPECIAL POST-16 Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stuart, Mr Graham INSTITUTIONS: APPROVAL Moore, rh Michael Stunell, rh Andrew Amendment made: 17, page 32, line 28, after ‘needs,’ Morgan, Nicky Sturdy, Julian insert— Morris, Anne Marie Swales, Ian Morris, David Swayne, rh Mr Desmond ‘(ba) an independent school— Morris, James Swinson, Jo (i) which has been entered on the register of independent Mosley, Stephen Syms, Mr Robert schools in Wales (kept under section 158 of the Mowat, David Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Education Act 2002), and Mulholland, Greg Teather, Sarah (ii) which is specially organised to make special educational Mundell, rh David Thornton, Mike provision for pupils with special educational needs,’.—(Mr Timpson.) Munt, Tessa Thurso, John Murray, Sheryll Timpson, Mr Edward Murrison, Dr Andrew Tomlinson, Justin Clause 48 Neill, Robert Tredinnick, David Newmark, Mr Brooks Truss, Elizabeth PERSONAL BUDGETS Newton, Sarah Turner, Mr Andrew Amendments made: 18, page 36, line 19, at beginning Nokes, Caroline Tyrie, Mr Andrew insert Norman, Jesse Uppal, Paul ‘Special educational’. Nuttall, Mr David Vaizey, Mr Edward Offord, Dr Matthew Vara, Mr Shailesh Amendment 19, page 36, line 20, leave out ‘provision’ Opperman, Guy Vickers, Martin and insert ‘having been’. Osborne, rh Mr George Walker, Mr Charles Amendment 20, page 36, line 21, at end insert— Ottaway, Richard Walker, Mr Robin ‘(6) Subsection (7) applies if— Paice, rh Sir James Wallace, Mr Ben (a) an EHC plan is maintained for a child or young Parish, Neil Ward, Mr David person, and Patel, Priti Watkinson, Dame Angela (b) health care provision specified in the plan is acquired Pawsey, Mark Weatherley, Mike for him or her by means of a payment made by a Penrose, John Webb, Steve commissioning body under section 12A(1) of the Perry, Claire Wharton, James National Health Service Act 2006 (direct payments Phillips, Stephen Wheeler, Heather for health care). Pickles, rh Mr Eric White, Chris (7) The health care provision is to be treated as having been Pincher, Christopher Whittaker, Craig arranged by the commissioning body in pursuance of its duty Poulter, Dr Daniel Whittingdale, Mr John under section 42(3) of this Act, subject to any prescribed conditions Prisk, Mr Mark Wiggin, Bill or exceptions. 279 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 280

(8) “Commissioning body”, in relation to any specified health (c) the offence contained in the new section 61D(4) to be care provision, means a body that is under a duty to arrange inserted into that Act by paragraph 26 of that health care provision of that kind in respect of the child or young Schedule; person.’.—(Mr Timpson.) (d) the offence contained in the new section 61G(1) to be inserted into that Act by paragraph 26 of that Schedule; Clause 49 (e) the offence contained in the new section 69C(6) to be inserted into that Act by paragraph 36 of that CONTINUATION OF SERVICES UNDER SECTION 17 OF Schedule; THE CHILDREN ACT 1989 (f) the offence contained in the new section 76B(3) to be Amendment made: 21, page 36, line 28, after ‘authority’, inserted into that Act by paragraph 46 of that Schedule. insert (4) Section 85 of the 2012 Act (removal of £5,000 limit on ‘in England’.—(Mr Timpson.) certain fines on conviction by magistrates’ court) applies in relation to the power in the new section 69A(1)(b) to be inserted into the Childcare Act 2006 by paragraph 35 of Schedule 4 to Clause 87 this Act as if the power were a relevant power (as defined in section 85(3) of the 2012 Act). SHARED PARENTAL LEAVE (5) Regulations described in section 85(11) of the 2012 Act Amendment made: 26, page 66, leave out line 34 and may amend, repeal or otherwise modify a provision of this Act insert— or the Childcare Act 2006.’.—(Mr Timpson.) ‘(b) a person who is an employer or former employer of Schedule 1 such a person. ‘(2A) In subsection (2)(b) “employer”, in relation to a person THE ADOPTION AND CHILDREN ACT REGISTER falling within subsection (2)(a) who is an employed earner, Amendments made: 10, page 116, leave out lines 5 to includes a person who is a secondary contributor as regards that 12 and insert— employed earner. “(2A) Regulations may make provision permitting the (2B) The conditions as to employment or self-employment disclosure of prescribed information entered in the register, or that may be specified in provision under section 75E(2) or (5) or compiled from information entered in the register— 75G(2) or (5) include conditions as to being in employed or self-employed earner’s employment. (a) to an adoption agency or to a Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish adoption agency for any prescribed (2C) In subsections (2A) and (2B)— purpose, or “employed earner” and “self-employed earner” have the meaning given by section 2 of the Social (b) for the purpose of enabling the information to be Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, entered in a register which is maintained in respect of subject for these purposes to the effect of regulations Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland and which contains made under section 2(2)(b) of that Act (persons information about children who are suitable for adoption who are to be treated as employed or self-employed or prospective adopters who are suitable to adopt a earners); child.”’. “employment”, in the case of employment as an employed Amendment 11, page 116, line 13, after ‘(4)’ insert— or self-employed earner, has the meaning given by ‘— section 122 of that Act; (a) .’ “secondary contributor”, as regards an employed earner, means a person who— Amendment 12, page 116, line 13, at end insert— (a) is indicated by section 7(1) of that Act, as that ‘, and subsection has effect subject to section 7(2) of (b) after “(2)” insert “or (2A)”.’. that Act, as being a secondary contributor as Amendment 13, page 116, line 17, at end insert— regards the earner, or (b) is indicated by regulations under section 7(2) of ( ) in paragraph (a) after “(2)” insert “or (2A)”,’. that Act as being a person to be treated as a Amendment 14, page 116, line 21, leave out ‘(2A)(a)’ secondary contributor as regards the earner.’.— and insert— ‘(2A)’. (Mr Timpson.) Amendment 15, page 116, line 22, leave out ‘after “subsection” insert— Clause 107 “(2A)(b) or”’ and insert ‘for “to whom information is disclosed under subsection (3)” substitute “in respect of TRANSITIONAL, TRANSITORY OR SAVING PROVISION information disclosed under subsection (2A) or (3)”’.— Amendment made: 28, page 113, line 39, at end insert— (Mr Timpson.) ‘(2) Subsections (3) to (5) apply if section 85(1) of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 (“the Schedule 3 2012 Act”) comes into force on or before the day on which this Act is passed. SPECIAL EDUCATIONAL NEEDS: CONSEQUENTIAL (3) Section 85 of the 2012 Act (removal of £5,000 limit on AMENDMENTS certain fines on conviction by magistrates’ court) applies in Amendments made: 22, page 149, line 25, leave out relation to the following offences as if the offences were relevant ‘young person’ and insert— offences (as defined in section 85(3) of that Act)— ‘person over compulsory school age but under 25’. (a) the offence contained in the new section 51C(4) to be Amendment 23, page 151, line 7, at end insert— inserted into the Childcare Act 2006 by paragraph 13 of Schedule 4 to this Act; ‘Local Government Act 1974 (c. 7) (b) the offence contained in the new section 51F(1) to be 61A In Schedule 5 to the Local Government Act 1974 (matters inserted into that Act by paragraph 13 of that not subject to investigation by Local Commissioners), in paragraph Schedule; 5(2)(b) for “by section 312” substitute “by section 579(1)”. 281 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 282

Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986 (a) for “that code of practice” substitute “the code of (c. 33) practice in question”, and 61B (1) In the Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and (b) after “functions under” insert “Part 3 of the Children Representation) Act 1986, section 5 (disabled persons leaving and Families Act 2013 or (as the case may be)”. special education) is amended as follows. (6) In subsection (3A)(b) after “no” insert “EHC plan or”. (2) In subsection (1)— 61G In Part A1 of Schedule 22 (disposals of land in case of (a) in paragraph (a) after “needs)” insert “, or have foundation, voluntary and foundation special schools in England), maintained an EHC plan under section 37 of the in paragraph A23(9), in paragraph (d) of the definition of “children’s Children and Families Act 2013,”, and services”— (b) in paragraph (b) after “statement” (in both places) (a) after “learning difficulty” insert “or disability”, and insert “or plan”. (b) omit “66,”. (3) In subsection (2)— Learning and Skills Act 2000 (c. 21) (a) in paragraph (a) after “statement” insert “, or secure the preparation of an EHC plan,”, 61H The Learning and Skills Act 2000 is amended as follows. (b) in paragraph (b) after “statement” insert “or plan”, 61I In section 35 (conditions imposed by Welsh Ministers on and financial resources provided by them), in subsection (3)(f) omit (c) after “making the statement” insert “, securing the “139A or”. preparation of the plan”. 61J In section 41 (discharge by the Welsh Ministers of certain (4) After subsection (8) insert— functions in relation to persons with learning difficulties), in subsection (1)(b) omit “139A or”.’. “(8A) Regulations under section (Transfer of EHC plans) of the Children and Families Act 2013 (transfer of EHC plans) may Amendment 24, page 151, line 8, leave out make such provision as appears to the Secretary of State to be ‘In the Learning and Skills Act 2000’. necessary or expedient in connection with subsections (1) to (7) of this section.” Amendment 25, page 151, line 10, leave out from (5) In subsection (9), in paragraph (a) of the definition of “the beginning to end of line 12 and insert— responsible authority”, after “1996” insert “or (as the case may 63 In consequence of the repeals made by paragraphs 61I, 61J be) Part 3 of the Children and Families Act 2013”. and 62— Value Added Tax Act 1994 (c. 23) (a) omit paragraph 76 of Schedule 1 to the Education and 61C (1) In Schedule 9 to the Value Added Tax Act 1994, in Skills Act 2008; Part 2 (groups of goods and services the supply of which is (b) section 80 of the Education and Skills Act 2008 is exempt from VAT), group 6 (education) is amended as follows. repealed. (2) In item 5B— Education Act 2002 (c. 32) (a) after paragraph (b) insert— 64 The Education Act 2002 is amended as follows. (ba) aged 19 or over and for whom an EHC plan is maintained,”, and 65 In section 92 (pupils with statements of special educational needs: application of National Curriculum for England)— (b) in paragraph (d), after “paragraph” insert “(ba) or”. (a) for the words from “a statement” to “special educational (3) in note (5B), after “item (5B),” insert ““EHC plan” and” needs” substitute “an EHC plan maintained for the and for “has the same meaning” substitute “have the same pupil”, meanings”. (b) for “the statement” substitute “the plan”, and School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (c. 31) (c) in the heading for “statements of special educational 61D The School Standards and Framework Act 1998 is amended needs” substitute “EHC plans”. as follows. 61E (1) Section 98 (admission for nursery education or to 66 (1) Section 94 (information concerning directions under nursery or special school: children with statements of special section 93) is amended as follows. educational needs) is amended as follows. (2) In subsection (3), for the words from “by virtue of” to the (2) In subsection (7) after “for whom” insert “EHC plans are end substitute “and the responsible authority ought to be maintained under section 37 of the Children and Families required to secure an EHC needs assessment for the pupil under Act 2013 or” section 36 of the Children and Families Act 2013 (or, if an EHC plan is maintained for the pupil, a re-assessment under section 44 (3) In the title after “special education needs” insert “or EHC of that Act).” plans”. (3) In subsection (5), for the words from “consider” to the end 61F (1) Section 123 (nursery education: children with special substitute “make a determination in respect of the pupil under educational needs) is amended as follows. section 36(3) of the Children and Families Act 2013 (or, if an (2) In subsection (1), for the words from “(except” to the end EHC plan is maintained for the pupil, under that section as it substitute “to have regard to the provisions of the code of applies to re-assessments by virtue of regulations under practice issued under section 66 of the Children and Families Act section 44 (7)).” 2013 (in the case of education in England) or section 313(2) of (4) In subsection (6), for “Part 4 of the Education Act 1996” the Education Act 1996 (in the case of education in Wales).” substitute “Part 3 of the Children and Families Act 2013 (see (3) After subsection (1) insert— section 23 of that Act)”. “(1A) Subsection (1) does not apply in so far as the person in Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 (c. 41) question is already under a duty to have regard to the provisions 67 (1) Section 36 of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum of the code of practice in question.” Act 2002 (education of children who are residents of (4) In subsection (2)— accommodation centres) is amended as follows. (a) for “That code of practice” substitute “The code of (2) In subsection (3)(b), after “named in” insert “an EHC plan practice in question”, and maintained for the child under section 37 of the Children and (b) after “functions under” insert “Part 3 of the Children Families Act 2013 or”. and Families Act 2013 or (as the case may be)”. (3) In subsection (5), omit the “and” after paragraph (d) and (5) In subsection (3)— after paragraph (e) insert— 283 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 284

“(f) sections33 and34 of the Children and Families Act (c) in subsection (4)(b)(i), after “school” insert “or (if 2013 (mainstream education for children with special later) the person ceased to be a student at his or her educational needs), and last post-16 institution”, (g) sections38 and39 of that Act (EHC plan: request of (d) in subsection (4)(b)(ii), after “institution” insert “in parent for named school etc).” England mentioned in subsection (2)”, and (4) After subsection (5) insert— (e) in subsection (6), after the definition of “an academic “(5A) The powers of the First-tier Tribunal on determining an year” insert— appeal under section 50(2)(c) of the Children and Families Act 2013 (appeals against certain aspects of content of EHC ““post-16 institution” has the meaning given by plan) are subject to subsection (2) above.” section72(2) of the Children and Families Act (5) In subsection (6), omit “the First-tier Tribunal or”. 2013;”. (6) In subsection (7)— Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009 (c. 22) (a) after “function under this Act” insert “, Part 3 of the 76 The Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009 Children and Families Act 2013”, and is amended as follows. (b) in paragraph (a), after “special educational provision” insert “called for by his special educational needs or”. 77 In section 83 (power to secure provision of apprenticeship training)— (7) In subsection (9), after paragraph (a) insert— “(aa) section36 of the Children and Families Act 2013 (a) in subsection (1)(b), for “are subject to learning difficulty (assessment of education, health and care needs: assessment” substitute “for whom an EHC plan is England) shall have effect as if an accommodation maintained”, centre were a school,”. (b) in subsection (2)(b), for “learning difficulties” Children Act 2004 (c. 31) substitute “special educational needs”, and 68 In section 10(9) of the Children Act 2004 (co-operation (c) omit subsection (4). arrangements in respect of children may include arrangements in respect of certain young people), in paragraph (c)— 78 In section 86 (education and training for persons aged 19 or (a) after “but under the age of 25” insert “— over etc), in subsection (1)(a), for “who are subject to learning (i) for whom an EHC plan is maintained, or difficulty assessment” substitute “for whom an EHC plan is (ii) ”, and maintained”. (b) after “learning difficulty” insert “or disability”. 79 In section 87 (learning aims for persons aged 19 or over: Education and Inspections Act 2006 (c. 40) provision of facilities), in subsection (3)(a), for “who are subject to learning difficulty assessment” substitute “for whom an EHC 69 In section 16 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006 plan is maintained”. (consultation before publishing proposals for discontinuance of maintained schools), in subsection (1)(c), after “maintain” insert 80 In section 101 (financial resources: conditions), in “an EHC plan or”. subsection (5)(f)— Education and Skills Act 2008 (c. 25) (a) after “specified in” insert “an EHC plan or”, and 70 The Education and Skills Act 2008 is amended as follows. (b) omit “139A or”. 71 In section 4 (meaning of appropriate full-time education or training)— 81 In section 115 (persons with learning difficulties)— (a) in subsection (1)(b), for “learning difficulty” substitute (a) in subsection (1), for “learning difficulties” substitute “special educational needs”, and “special educational needs”, (b) omit subsection (3). (b) in subsection (2)(a), for “who are subject to learning 72 In section 17 (sharing and use of information held for difficulty assessment” substitute “for whom an EHC purposes of support services or functions under Part 1), in plan is maintained”, subsection (8)(b)— (a) for “a learning difficulty” substitute “special educational (c) omit subsections (3) and (4), and needs”, and (d) in the title, for “learning difficulties” substitute “special (b) omit the words from “and subsections (6) and (7)” to educational needs”. the end. 82 In section 129 (general duties of Ofqual)— 73 In section 47 (attendance notice: description of education or training)— (a) in subsection (2)(b) and (c), for “learning difficulties” (a) in subsection (5)(b)(ii), for “learning difficulty” substitute “special educational needs”, and substitute “special educational needs”, and (b) omit subsections (9) and (10). (b) omit subsection (6). Academies Act 2010 (c. 32) 74 In section 78(1) (Part 2: supplementary), in the definition of “relevant young adult”— 83 In section 1 of the Academies Act 2010 (Academy (a) for “a learning difficulty” substitute “special educational arrangements), omit subsections (7) and (8). needs (within the meaning given by section 579(1) of Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 the Education Act 1996)”, and (c. 10) (b) omit the words from “and subsections (6) and (7)” to the end. 84 In paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 to the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 (civil legal services: 75 In section 132 (providers of independent education or training special educational needs)— for 16 to 18 year olds)— (a) in subsection (4)(a), for the words from “a statement” (a) in sub-paragraph (1)(a), after “1996” insert “or Part 3 to “needs)” substitute “an EHC plan is maintained”, of the Children and Families Act 2013”, and (b) in subsection (4)(b), for “a statement was so” (b) in sub-paragraph (1)(b), for “sections 139A and” substitute “an EHC plan was”, substitute “section”.’.—(Mr Timpson.) 285 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 286

Schedule 7 children went into care. Will he, together with the Minister responsible for welfare reform, look at the STATUTORY RIGHTS TO LEAVE AND PAY: FURTHER issue and reflect on whether they can give a further AMENDMENTS concession? Amendment made: 27, page 194, line 2, at end insert— 40A In section 230 (meaning of “employee”, etc), after Mr Timpson: Of course I am happy to look at the subsection (6) there is inserted— specific case the hon. Gentleman raises in the context of (7) This section has effect subject to section 75K(2A) and the changes that have been made. As he and Opposition (2C).” ’.—(Mr Timpson.) Front Benchers will know, I have worked hard, both Third Reading before coming into government and since, to try to ensure that foster carers are given the best possible Queen’s consent signified. support in their endeavours, because we want to encourage more people to foster, and we know from the research 6.29 pm we have done that many more would like to take up that Mr Timpson: I beg to move, That the Bill be now read opportunity. The Welfare Minister, Lord Freud, and I the Third time. have written jointly to all local authorities to explain the importance of this, with regard to both the single room Let me begin by thanking all Members who served on subsidy and making the discretionary housing fund the Public Bill Committee. The debate was constructive available to foster carers where appropriate. We have and—dare I say it?—mature, exceedingly thorough and committed to an independent review of that progress, all the more encouraging for being the first such Committee and I will be keeping a keen and close eye on how that for many of the newly elected Members on both sides of develops. I know that the Fostering Network, which has the House. We had 19 sittings, 397 amendments were done some excellent work on the issue, will also take a tabled, and every issue was thoughtfully scrutinised. I lead in ensuring that we have a clear understanding of am sure that we all agree with the hon. Members for the impact of the changes. Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) and for Wigan (Lisa Nandy)—I extend to them my personal The Bill will overhaul services for vulnerable children thanks for their responsible and fair-minded contributions and support strong families. It will raise aspirations and —who told us that it was place children and young people at the heart of decision “a hard-working, good-natured and somewhat consensual Committee. making and support in the SEN system. It will reduce At times, we have agreed more than we have disagreed, which is delays in the adoption system. It is part of a wider set of for the good… the legislation we are shaping is extremely important reforms to improve children’s services so that everyone for millions of our most vulnerable children now and in future.”– involved in a vulnerable child’s life—teachers, social –[Official Report, Children and Families Public Bill Committee, workers, health professionals and the police—has a 25 April 2013; c. 815.] proper sense of responsibility for the child’s prospects, I would also like to thank the Under-Secretary of not just focusing on their precise duties and whether State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend they have followed the correct processes and ticked all the Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson), the boxes, but looking at the child’s overall welfare. who has led jointly on the Bill with great aplomb in this That means refocusing the system on the child’s needs House and before the four Select Committees that in a child’s time frame, foremost among which must be considered much of the Bill during pre-legislative scrutiny, the need to keep the child safe from harm. even when the odd stray nut sought to scupper her We often hear that the care system fails children, that endeavours. it damages and betrays them. Too often it does, but, as I The debates in Committee and today have reflected know from my family and the fostering and adopting the importance of the issues the Bill seeks to address. It we have undertaken, it can also transform lives. As the seeks to improve the lives of some of our most vulnerable recent research report “Safeguarding Children Across children. Improving the life chances of every child, Services” pointed out, when compared with those who whatever their background, by putting their needs first are reunited with their birth families, the majority of in all that we do is at the heart of the Government’s maltreated children do better in care or accommodation. agenda. Looked-after children can and do achieve in care in a stable placement. We know, for example, that there is a Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): Will the Minister marked correlation between the length of time in care give way? and the stability of placements and achieving good educational outcomes at GCSE, yet we must remain Mr Timpson: I will take a brief intervention, but I am resolute in ensuring that the child’s best interests, not mindful of the time and know that other Back Benchers administrative or personnel considerations, are always wish to speak. at the heart of the system. Hugh Bayley: I, too, am mindful of the time, so I am Delays in care and adoption services mean that it grateful to the Minister for giving way—I understand currently takes, on average, 21 months to place a child. why he could not do so during his speech on Report. I Those delays damage a child’s development and reduce rise on behalf of a constituent who fosters three children. their chances of finding the love and stability they need As a consequence of the Government’s decision to with a new family. The Bill will help to sweep away such exempt only one bedroom from the bedroom tax for barriers through measures designed to speed up the foster carers, she is required to pay £14 a week to carry adoption process, help recruit more potential adopters on fostering. If she moved into smaller accommodation, and improve the support they can receive. It will she could foster only one of those three children, and enable children to be placed earlier with their potential there would be a cost of about £3,000 a week if the adopters. 287 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 288

Building on the family justice review, we are tackling important points about how we ensure that the Bill really unacceptable delays in the courts, ensuring that children’s achieves that. I am grateful for that valuable expertise best interests remain at the heart of decision making, and measured consideration. I particularly thank the and encouraging parents to resolve disputes outside the Education Committee, the Justice Committee, the Adoption court where possible. By introducing a 26-week time Legislation Committee and the Joint Committee on limit for care and supervision proceedings, the Bill will Human Rights for their valuable scrutiny of the Bill. I ensure that courts focus on the essentials and that the am grateful to the Office of the Children’s Commissioner most vulnerable children are not damaged further by for its children’s rights impact assessment and to the unnecessary drift and delay. This is already having an children’s rights director for his superb version of the impact in our courts. As the president of the family Bill for children, which is so jargon-free that it should make division recently wrote to everyone involved in the all of us in Westminster and Whitehall blush. I thank family courts system: the many organisations that gave and submitted evidence “We must get away from existing practice. All too often, and in Committee and worked with me, my officials and hon. partly as a result of previous initiatives, local authorities are filing Members across the House to make sure that the many enormously voluminous materials, which—and this is not their important issues that the Bill touches on are properly fault—are not merely far too long; too often they are narrative understood in terms of its content and implementation. and historical, rather than analytical...I want to send out a clear message: local authority materials can be much shorter...and...should Throughout the development and passage of the Bill, be more focused on analysis.” we have listened and made changes so that the Bill we now pass to the other place is an improved one. This is a We also want to improve support for children remaining detailed Bill and it is vital that we take time to consider in local authority care, and so the Bill will make the the points made and get the legislation and implementation virtual school head a statutory role in local authorities. right. Therefore, as I indicated earlier, we will consider This sends out the strongest possible signal about the some key issues over the summer and hope that progress priority we attach to the educational attainment of can be made in the other place. In particular, we will looked after children. Changes to the Office of the look at these issues: clarifying whether, before local Children’s Commissioner will help the commissioner authorities can consider a fostering for adoption placement, act as a strong advocate for children, promoting and they must consider placing the child with a relative or protecting their rights. For children and young people friend; introducing new safeguards through regulations with special educational needs, the Bill will introduce a to ensure that a local authority notifies the child’s birth single system from birth to age 25; new education, parents when considering a fostering for adoption health and care plans which ensure that health, education placement; seeing what more we can do to improve and social care are planned around the needs of the outcomes for young carers, ensuring that our approach child or young person; new rights and protections for complements the changes being introduced through the 16 to 25-year-olds in further education and training; Care Bill; and identifying further improvements to the and a clear focus on outcomes, including independent support that young offenders with SEN receive in custody. living and paid employment. As the Bill moves on to the other place, I am confident The most frequent complaint I have heard from that it will be viewed as a Bill that all of us in this House parents about SEN is that the current system is opaque can look back on, in whole or in part, and feel sure that and inflexible, leaving children and families to battle for we did right by giving our most vulnerable children, access to services in a fog of bureaucracy. By requiring who all too often have the weakest voice, the chance to local authorities to publish a clear and transparent local be heard and respected and the prospect of a better offer, families will, in future, know what support is future. I commend the Bill to the House. available in their area and how to access it. Crucially, the duty on clinical commissioning groups 6.39 pm to secure provision of health services as part of an EHC plan strengthens the Bill’s creation of a more integrated Mrs Hodgson: I begin by thanking my Front-Bench approach to care and support, and it has been widely colleague my hon. Friend the Member for Wigan (Lisa and warmly welcomed by the SEN charitable sector. I Nandy) for her excellent scrutiny of those sections of want to express my gratitude to the Secretary of State the Bill that she has been responsible for shadowing, for Health and his ministerial team for their willingness including sections that do not usually come under her to help to push the boundaries towards better health policy remit. I also thank my hon. Friends the Members integration in SEN service provision. for Corby (Andy Sawford) and for Hyndburn (Graham Jones) for supporting us during this process, and our We are committed to reforming child care substantially colleagues on the Bill Committee, my hon. Friends the to increase the availability of high-quality, affordable Members for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell), for provision. The enabling measures in the Bill will offer North West Durham (Pat Glass), for Sefton Central greater choice and flexibility for providers and parents. (Bill Esterson) and for Croydon North (Mr Reed). We are introducing shared parental leave, giving working Given how constructive and good-natured the Committee parents greater choice over who looks after their child was—for the most part, at least—I also thank its in the first year and offering fathers the opportunity to Government members, many of whom made valuable be more involved in caring for their children. Together contributions. I thank the Minister for children and families, with the extension of the right to request flexible working the Under-Secretary of State for Education, the hon. to all employees, these measures will make the labour Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson), and market more flexible, equitable and family friendly. the Minister for employment relations, the Under-Secretary We all share an ambition for this Bill to make a of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, the hon. tangible, lasting difference to the lives of children and Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson), for families. Many in this House and beyond have made their helpful and thorough responses to our many questions. 289 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 290

[Mrs Hodgson] Mrs Hodgson: I agree with my hon. Friend and will probably repeat some of the points that she has just I also thank the staff in all our offices, who have made. I commend her for her tireless and excellent ensured that we have been fully briefed and prepared for campaigning on behalf of young carers since she promoted our many hours of debate on the Bill, and the her private Member’s Bill. I know that she will continue representatives of all the sector bodies and lobby groups that work when this Bill goes to the other place. for their help. As I pointed out to the Minister for children and Finally, I thank the Clerks and the Library staff for families in Committee, the Minister of State, Department their expertise, which has supported us in our understanding of Health, the hon. Member for North Norfolk (Norman and scrutiny of the Bill, and for ensuring the smooth Lamb), who has responsibility for care, promised my running of the whole process. hon. Friend and those of us who were present for the Second Reading of her private Member’s Bill last September On Second Reading, my hon. Friend the Member for that young carers would be provided for in the Children Wigan rightly laid down Labour’s key test for this Bill’s and Families Bill, yet we are still waiting to see what reforms: will they result in better outcomes for the those provisions will be. The Minister gave some warm children they seek to help? The many areas where we assurances on that issue during his closing remarks, so agree with the Government that they will help, and the we look forward to seeing it addressed in the Bill. few areas where we think that they will not help enough or at all, have all been covered extensively since February’s Mr Timpson: Just to clarify, if the hon. Lady looks Second Reading debate. back at Hansard she will see that just before the end of On special educational needs, as I said earlier, while Report I gave some strong indications of the direction we support the vast majority of what the Government of travel I am persuaded to take with regard to young are doing, concerns remain about the accountability of carers. local services to families, the potential to exacerbate the postcode lottery and how some of the more ambitious Mrs Hodgson: That is very good; I will do that. reforms, such as personal budgets, will actually work in At the very least, we need to ensure that agencies that practice. Of course, the main concern is that the benefits come into contact with families know how to spot a that these reforms should bring are not denied to the child who might be providing care and how to refer that children and young people with special educational child and their family to the support that exists for the needs who find themselves in the youth justice system. majority of young carers. That needs to happen in order On parts 1 and 2, while we do not disagree with much to address the much poorer outcomes that such children of what the Government are trying to do, we remain have because of their responsibilities. deeply concerned about what the Bill will mean in As the Children’s Society discovered recently in its practice for children in care in the family courts. We “Hidden from View” report, about one in 20 young urge Ministers to consider what the reforms will mean carers misses school because of caring responsibilities. in practice for social workers who are overburdened and Young carers attain the equivalent of nine grades lower families who have lost access to legal aid. than their peers at GCSE level and are consequently We believe that the Government are mistaken in not more likely than other young people to be classed as not ensuring that ethnicity is still considered in adoption in education, employment or training after school. There placements—not as an overriding consideration, but as are also health implications. Young carers are one and a one of the many things that matter to children—or that half times more likely to have a special educational courts consider sibling arrangements when scrutinising need, a long-standing illness or a disability than their children’s care plans. Although we agree that we should peers. Those who are dedicated to looking after someone remove needless delay from the courts, we are concerned else often do not take good enough care of themselves. that many of the Bill’s measures place speed above That is particularly true of young carers. getting it right for children. There are 166,363 young carers in England according to the latest census data, which were released on 16 May It is a great shame that the Government refused to this year. That is 166,363 young people who stand a structure this debate in a way that would have given us much poorer chance of reaching their educational potential time to debate all the issues, and that we did not have and a much greater chance of suffering poor health or two days to consider such a large and wide-ranging Bill being a NEET. It does not need to be that way. I know that contains important measures relating to vulnerable that the Minister has outlined measures, but he could children. Nor have we had time to do justice to our new make the changes to the Bill that we have suggested in clauses or that tabled by the hon. Member for South the other place or bring forward his own changes to Swindon (Mr Buckland), which seek to improve the ensure that those young carers are given the support lives of young carers. that they need. The Minister will not be surprised that I am also keen Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): for progress to be made on ensuring that children’s Does my hon. Friend agree that the most important centres are better able to identify and help every family thing as the Bill progresses is to make sure—it is important in their area who needs it by adopting the measures that the Minister agrees with us on this—that the adult tabled by the hon. Member for South Northamptonshire who is assessed receives sufficient support so that the (Andrea Leadsom). She has not made a speech today young person does not experience negative outcomes? and I hope that she has a chance to do so in a moment. The support should not impact on their education or Those measures would require NHS trusts to share the quality of life. That is the key point behind new clause 5 live births register with Sure Start outreach workers and and it is a pity that we were not able to debate it today. would roll out trials of births being registered in children’s 291 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 292 centres. That would mean that all parents would have to Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole visit their local children’s centre, where they would be (Annette Brooke), who is not in her place but has a shown all the opportunities and services that are available long-standing interest in these matters. to them and their child. That would contribute greatly The Bill will make a huge, positive difference to many to ensuring that we reach out to and help the most young people’s lives and those of their families, and vulnerable families and, once again, improve the outcomes bring together the responsibilities of different agencies of the children within them. that are vital to ensuring that those young people have I know that many hon. Members are keen to speak, the best possible start in life. I pay tribute to earlier so I will bring my remarks to a conclusion. We will not work done on the Bill by my hon. Friend the Member oppose the Bill on Third Reading and we are as keen as for Brent Central (Sarah Teather), and to the hon. Ministers for it to make speedy progress to the other Member for East Worthingand Shoreham (Tim Loughton) place. However, I hope that the House and the Government for what he did when he was in office. are left in no doubt that there are a number of issues The Under-Secretary of State for Education, the that my noble colleagues and, I am sure, peers on all hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), sides in the other place will revisit. We are expecting big was at pains to point out that she still believes altering things from Ministers before then and I sincerely hope ratios in child care is the right thing to do although that they do not disappoint. there was not a majority across Government for that. Most notably, we want measures to ensure that support Similarly, the Liberal Democrats remain committed to is not denied to young offenders with special educational progress on sex and relationship education, although needs and measures to increase the chance of young again there is no majority across the Government. It is a carers being identified and given the support that they measure of how the coalition is holding together by need in order to improve their outcomes. We hope that concentrating on where we agree and such issues as the Government reconsider their position on PSHE supporting adopters and young people with special and, in particular, sex and relationship education, and educational needs that we have made such progress, but that they bring forward measures to make it compulsory I know our noble Friends in another place will want to before the Bill reaches the other place. make a further contribution and perhaps even improve the Bill slightly—if that is possible—before it makes it I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to on to the statute book. I congratulate all those involved my hon. Friend the Member for Airdrie and Shotts in getting the Bill to its current position, and I thank (Pamela Nash) for her superb leadership through the you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me to catch your eye. all-party parliamentary group on HIV and AIDS in pursuing education on HIV and AIDS. One in four young people leaves school without being taught about 6.50 pm HIV. The work that she has done in that area is Andrea Leadsom: Surely this has been Parliament at commendable. its best. It has been a huge privilege to be involved with If all the issues raised by Her Majesty’s Opposition the Bill Committee, and I really think that life is about and hon. Members from all parts of the House in the to get a whole lot better for some of the most vulnerable preceding debate are addressed, the Minister will be young people in our society. On that point, I pay tribute able to answer the question posed by my hon. Friend to all those who have worked so hard to make this such the Member for Wigan on Second Reading and be a non-partisan and co-operative experience for us all. confident that the Bill will improve the outcomes for I draw the Minister’s attention again to the point millions of children, young people and families for a about the opportunity to introduce the registration of long time to come. In the hope that those improvements births in children’s centres, and specifically to Bench will be made, the Bill proceeds with our blessing. Hill children’s centre in Manchester, which has been offering registration of births for 10 years. As a result, Several hon. Members rose— its access to all new families in that area has improved exponentially, not just in offering services but in the Mr Speaker: Order. At least three Members still wish re-engagement rates of families with those services. to speak and I hope that they all have the chance to do That is incredibly important, and I pay tribute to the so. Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson) for providing the resources in his Department to investigate 6.48 pm how offering birth registration in children’s centres can make a fundamental difference to the support offered Dan Rogerson: It is a pleasure to follow the hon. to new families. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson). I pay tribute to the way in which the Bill has largely been approached by shadow Ministers 6.52 pm and the constructive way in which she offers her blessing Mr Buckland: I will be brief. I was accused of being a as it proceeds to another place. Ministers have worked little less than brief earlier, but I mean what I say, and I hard to make the case for all the important measures in think we have done an admirable job in scrutinising this the Bill and have done so successfully. Bill and that we send it to the other place in a very good I was not a member of the Public Bill Committee. state. There is still work to be done, and the Under-Secretary Those places rightly went to the Under-Secretary of of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson) and I have had the Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson), keen debates about the Bill over the past months. I was because of her ministerial responsibilities and my hon. delighted to hear his remarks in response to my right 293 Children and Families Bill11 JUNE 2013 Children and Families Bill 294

[Mr Buckland] developed the children’s guide to the Bill deserve particular thanks. That is an exemplar of how we can open up law hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul making in this country and make it understandable, and Burstow), who spoke on the young carers amendment proves that age need be no barrier to that whatsoever. tabled in my name together with those of other hon. The Bill will help children and families in a wide Members, and to which the hon. Member for Worsley range of ways. It will modernise systems for the 21st century and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) referred. on adoption and fostering, special educational needs and family justice, and strengthen the Children’s Barbara Keeley: The hon. Gentleman is generous in Commissioner. There are also proposals to improve giving way as time is short. Does he agree it is important affordable child care. As hon. Members have said, this that young carers get a signal from the last few minutes wide range of proposals will make a difference to people’s of this debate that the importance of the work they do lives. is recognised? He understands, as I do, that there was a feeling that those carers felt let down and ignored by the As a BIS Minister, I am delighted to take forward Bill. measures in the Bill on shared parental leave and flexible working. On shared parental leave, it is important that Mr Buckland: I think the message came out loud and we shatter the outdated stereotypes of how parents clear from the Under-Secretary that the needs of those divide their responsibilities—the assumption is that men people will not be forgotten or neglected, and that they are the breadwinners and that a woman’s role is to stay will be enabled to play their part as mainstream members at home and look after children. Those decisions are up of society. That is what it is all about; it is not just to individual parents, who will work out the right box-ticking but about enabling those people to take solution and answers for them. It is not the Government’s their place in society and have all the advantages of job to get in the way and tell them how to do it. their peers who do not have caring responsibilities. The flexibility of the Bill will enable more dads to I thank the Every Disabled Child Matters campaign play a bigger role in the early weeks and months of their and the Special Educational Consortium for the work child’s life. We know from research that that has a done not only with Ministers but with me and other positive impact on child development and later measures. colleagues to marshal arguments in Committee and at The provisions will also enable mums better to combine this stage. Although those in the other place will still their work responsibilities with their parenting, which is have work to do, there is no doubt that we have sent so important given the contribution women can make them a substantial body of evidence that this House of to the economy, which was highlighted in the excellent Commons is more than capable of doing justice and Women’s Business Council report last week. giving proper scrutiny to the most important Bill in a The right to request flexible working was introduced generation for those with special educational needs and by the previous Government, and this Government young people who, through no fault of their own, face rightly want to extend it to everyone. That will bring greater challenges than the rest of us in our society. huge benefits to the economy. Employers benefit from more motivated and productive staff, and from lower 6.54 pm recruitment and retention costs. Employees benefit because they are more in control of their time and more able to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, juggle their responsibilities, whether caring, volunteering Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson): I am delighted to or other outside interests. It is important for other conclude the debate on Third Reading—the Bill is a groups of workers, such as older workers and people joint effort between the Department for Education and with disabilities, who can find a shorter, part-time or the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. It more flexible work pattern incredibly helpful to their is fair to say that the BIS measures have not had the ability to continue within the labour market and to same prominence or debate, which is perhaps a mark of contribute to the economy. the remarkable consensus on them in general. Given that wide range of measures, it is incredibly I thank all members of the Public Bill Committee—the important that we are able to pass the Bill on Third debate in Committee was positive—all those who Reading. It will now go to the other place, where I am contributed to the consultations and the formation of sure there will be a wide range of debates. I look the policies in the Bill, and the Committee Chairs. It is forward to watching with interest which issues it chooses important for those Ministers who came to the Bill to develop, but the consultation process in advance of part-way through its passage to recognise that our the Bill has been hugely beneficial and has got it into an predecessors had significant roles in developing the excellent state. The House can be proud of the scrutiny policy. They also deserve thanks, as do officials within we have given the Bill and the work we have done on it. I BIS—we have a fantastic team, particularly on shared commend the Bill to the House. parental leave and flexible leave, of Sarah, Andrew, Ruth, Kim, Chris, James and Chris. All those who have Question put and agreed to. supported them have been wonderful. The officials who Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed. 295 11 JUNE 2013 Court of Justice of the European 296 Union Court of Justice of the European Union current arrangements, we would expect the first two additional advocates-general appointed in October 2015 [Relevant documents: Thirty-eighth Report of the European to be Czech and Danish. Scrutiny Committee, Session 2012-13, HC 86-xxxvii, Chapter 3; and Fourth Report of the European Scrutiny In the 2011 report on the workload of the European Committee, HC 83-iv, Chapter 12.] Court of Justice, the House of Lords recommended that the number of advocates-general be increased. 6.59 pm Since 2011, the Lords have repeated that recommendation several times, including in their follow-up report this The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): I beg year, and called for the increase to be implemented to move, without delay. Last night, in its section 10 debate on this That this House takes note of European Union Document matter, the House of Lords approved the draft Council No. 7013/13, the draft Council Decision increasing the number of decision and Members of their lordships’ House spoke Advocates-General of the Court of Justice of the European positively about the impact that additional advocates-general Union and, in accordance with Section 10 of the European Union Act 2011, approves Her Majesty’s Government’s intention would have on the efficient functioning of the courts. to support the adoption of that draft Council Decision. The role of advocates-general is to produce non-legally As you will be aware, Mr Speaker, this proposal is binding opinions for the Court of Justice to assist it in subject to the European Act 2011, which means that reaching its judgments. before Ministers can take a position in the Council on the proposed appointment of three additional advocates- general to the European Court of Justice, parliamentary Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to the Minister for approval must be secured for the United Kingdom’s giving way again. In reference to House of Lords, position. That is the reason for today’s debate. the 2011 report questioned whether the quality of the advocates-general would be high enough. I wonder, I believe that it is in the interests of this country for therefore, what evidence has encouraged them to change justice in the European Union to be delivered through their minds to be confident in the quality of the people the Court promptly and effectively. It is particularly who may be appointed. important for British businesses with pan-European interests whose opportunities for business may well depend on clarity on the impact of European law. Mr Lidington: I want to come on to the question of quality and the article 255 panel later. If my hon. Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): I Friend is dissatisfied at that point, then by all means I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way so early. I invite him to seek to intervene again. However, I think would just question whether we get justice from the perhaps that it is best if I come to that passage at the European Court. appropriate time. I was talking about the role of advocates-general. Mr Lidington: As with any other court here in the They produce their non-legally binding opinions in United Kingdom, I am sure there will be judgments about half of all cases, particularly in those that raise a with which my hon. Friend and I might have quarrels new point of law. There is no appeals process, of course, and wish that learned judges had come to other opinions. so the additional reasoned submissions help the Court Where I would respond robustly to him is to say that, as to provide effective justice. Given that the number of far as I can tell, in coming to their decisions the justices cases before it continues to rise, the Government are of the European Union Courts take very seriously their satisfied that there is a need for additional advocates-general duty to apply the law as it is found in the treaties and in to process better the Court’s work load. secondary European legislation. The appointment of judges at the EU Courts is subject to approval by an The opinions that advocates-general issue are a key expert panel. Indeed, to be eligible to serve as a justice element in the efficiency of the Court. As Sir Konrad in the European Court, the man or woman in question Schiemann stated in his evidence to the House of Lords must either have served in a senior judicial office in their this year, advocate-general opinions significantly shorten home country or be of sufficient standing in the law to the time occupied by judges in agreeing a judgment and be regarded as capable of exercising that kind of improve the quality of the Court’s judgments. The responsibility. opinions assist the Court with its own deliberations, because the Court can then test its own views against I believe that the measure we are discussing will the detailed reasoning of the advocate-general conclusions. provide quicker and more efficient justice within the It is particularly useful in the EU Court because, unlike European Union. The proposal is to increase the number the practice in our own Supreme Court or Court of of advocates-general to nine from 1 July 2013 and to Appeal, it has to reach a consensus for its ruling—the 11 from 7 October 2015. The first advocate-general possibility of separate dissenting opinions from different would be a permanent Polish advocate-general. Under judges does not exist at the European level. declaration 38 in article 252 of the treaty on the functioning of the European Union, member states agreed in 2007 As well as contributing to the speed of judgments, that if there were an increase in advocates-general, advocates-general also improve the quality of justice Poland would have a permanent advocate-general and dispensed by the Court. The opinions are detailed and no longer take part in the rotation of advocates-general. so provide a greater insight into the approach ultimately This step would bring Poland into line with the other taken by the Court, regardless of whether it agrees or big six member states, including the United Kingdom, disagrees in the final decision with the recommendation which all already have a permanent advocate-general. of the advocate-general. That means that those opinions An additional two advocates-general would increase are valuable in maintaining the consistency of the Court’s the existing rotation system from three to five. Under case law. 297 Court of Justice of the European 11 JUNE 2013 Court of Justice of the European 298 Union Union [Mr Lidington] analysis and the provision of a learned opinion amongst a slightly greater number of expert advocates-general It is important that the Court is efficient, because of than is available to the Court now. the impact that its judgments can have on British citizens As the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith and businesses operating in the European single market Vaz)—one of my predecessors in this role—will know, in particular. A classic example was the case brought by the enlargement of the EU over the last decade following the National Farmers Union in the context of the BSE the accession of a large number of new member states crisis—NFU v. Secrétariat Général du Gouvernement— has inevitably led over time to a greater number of cases against France’s refusal to lift the beef ban on UK being brought, simply because there are more citizens imports. The Court ruled that since EU legislation laid and more businesses that might be in a position to bring down the necessary rules for the protection of public a case before the European Courts. health, France was not entitled to rely on the public health exception in then article 30 of the treaty establishing Keith Vaz: I am grateful to the Minister, who is the European Community to prevent the resumption of generous in giving way for a second time. That is why I beef and veal imports from the UK. I am sure that the was interested in the fact that a Polish advocate-general House needs no reminder that the beef industry was was to be appointed, because one of the problems we worth more than £430 million in exports to the British have is that Poland has been issuing more European economy in 2011—the last year for which we have figures. arrest warrants than anyone else. This may, for example, Another recent example was the ruling of the Court in eventually lead to a backlog in cases here. 2011 in the case of DHL v. Chronopost, which provides certainty for trademark owners on the extent to which a Community trademark owner could secure EU-wide Mr Lidington: The right hon. Gentleman may have relief based on action in only one member state. an opportunity tomorrow to express his views about the European arrest warrant and the attitude taken by the The impact of the EU Courts is not limited to cases Polish courts. It is fair to say that Poland is as equally in which UK businesses are directly involved. The outcome entitled to have its own permanent advocate-general as of other cases can have significant benefits for the UK, Spain, Italy, France, Germany or the UK. Everybody directly or indirectly. For example, there was a case on round the table accepts that there are six member states whether EU legislation allowed for prescribing incentive whose populations give them a certain priority when it schemes—arrangements to encourage doctors to prescribe comes to such appointments. I emphasise again that the cheaper generic medicines. Adopting the approach suggested declaration that promised the first new advocate-general by the British Government in their recommendations, to Poland was agreed by every member state, large and the decision of the Court resulted in an estimated small. saving to our Department of Health of nearly £400 million. The greater efficiency of the Court is going to require Given the current number of advocates-general and more than just the appointment of three new advocates- the increasing work load of the Court, the individual general. I am happy to concede that point to the right advocates-general have been under pressure. There is no hon. Member for Leicester East. The House will be single reason why the Court’s work load has been familiar with the reforms that the Court itself has increasing over the years. In 2012, 632 new cases were introduced in the last two years, including increasing brought before it and it completed only 527. In 2011, the number of judges in the Grand Chamber from 13 to 688 new cases were brought before it and it completed 15; abolishing unnecessary procedural elements such as 554. These were the two busiest years so far recorded in the requirement to read the report of the hearing in full, the Court’s history. In 2012, the backlog of cases had and thus the need to produce a report; provisions risen to 886—up from 849 12 months before. allowing for the appointment of temporary judges to the civil service tribunal; and establishing a new office Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): First, I congratulate of vice-president in the Court of Justice and the General the Minister for Europe on his French pronunciation, Court. I am sure that there will be other opportunities which I thought was A*, as they say. for the House to debate proposed changes to the European Courts and proposed measures to secure greater efficiencies I am in favour of more judges, as are the Government, in the future. but is the Minister satisfied that having more judges will result in quicker decisions? He knows that one of our Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Is the Minister concerns is that it takes too long to get judgments. Is he aware of occasions when other European countries satisfied that by putting these extra judges on the Court, have not been anxious or zealous in enforcing the Court the decisions will be handed out quicker? decision, or have delayed doing so? Does the UK push through Court decisions while other countries disregard Mr Lidington: We are talking here not about additional them? judges but about additional advocates-general. As I have argued, the advocates-general play an important Mr Lidington: I am always willing to say that if any role in assisting the judges of the Court in coming to a right hon. or hon. Member, or any UK business, can conclusion and in analysing the legal arguments in come forward with evidence that another member state question. Clearly, I cannot give a 100% guarantee from is refusing to implement European law—whether that is this Dispatch Box, but I pray in aid the evidence of Sir law as interpreted by the Courts or the law as enacted Konrad Schiemann and others from the Court who through the European legislative process—we will be have argued consistently that the provision of additional happy to champion those British citizens or companies advocates-general would help them to address the backlog, with the relevant institutions. As I am sure the hon. in part by spreading out the preparatory work of legal Gentleman will know, once law has been established 299 Court of Justice of the European 11 JUNE 2013 Court of Justice of the European 300 Union Union and clarity assured by a judgment from the Court, it is Delay of the kind that my hon. Friend the Member then for the European Commission to initiate infraction for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) suggests proceedings if a member state fails to implement the would not get us very far. The Government’s view is European Court’s rulings. It is fair to say that sometimes that there is a persuasive case for the extra appointments there is argument after the judgment about the exact to be made. The way in which EU finances are organised meaning— means that the negotiations on the annual budget will determine the total budget available to the Court. From Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. We that budget, the Court will have to meet its costs under are drifting from the question of advocates-general. various headings of expenditure, including this small Mr Shannon has tempted you, Minister for Europe, one. and you should know better. Back on course! I point out to my hon. Friend that the United Kingdom is not alone in expecting the Court to absorb the costs Mr Lidington: If the hon. Member for Strangford of the additional advocates-general. We are one of a (Jim Shannon) applies to Mr Speaker for an Adjournment blocking minority of budget-disciplined net-contributor debate, he and I might have the opportunity to explore member states that routinely votes against increases to those matters in the detail that he so ardently desires. the EU budget. We anticipate that that like-minded Let me return to the issue we are debating and the group will take the same view on any request to increase criticisms the European Scrutiny Committee has raised. the Court’s budget to accommodate the new advocates- Let me turn first to the important issue of funding. general. The Prime Minister’s recent success at the Although broadly supporting the proposal, the Government multi-annual framework negotiations should be an are clear that any additional advocates-general should indication of how strongly the Government feel about not and need not result in an increase in the Court’s budgetary savings. budget. The appointment of the new post holders and The European Scrutiny Committee also asked me to their support staff should lead to a relatively small outline the Government’s view of the manner of appointing additional cost of about ¤4 million a year, which the advocates-general and my view of the calibre of the Court can meet from within its existing budget. Its likely appointees. My hon. Friend the Member for budget was more than ¤354 million for 2013, and the North East Somerset made a point about this in an Court has underspent by more than the cost of the earlier intervention. The article 255 panel gives an opinion additional advocates-general in each of the last three on candidates’ suitability to perform the role of advocate- years. In the current economic climate, there is an general. The Government consider that the panel plays imperative on all the EU’s institutions, including the a key role in making the judicial appointments process Court, to find ways to reduce their administrative costs. more transparent and helping to ensure that the chosen As I set out in paragraph 12 of my explanatory candidates are of a high quality. The UK was a key memorandum to the European Scrutiny Committee, the supporter of the creation of such a panel, and we have UK is prepared to submit a minute statement in Council consistently supported the application of rigour in the to set out our expectation that the increase is cost-neutral. judicial selection process. The article 255 panel is effective If necessary, we will do that during voting on the in its role of assessing the suitability of nominees to Council decision. As I know the House understands, a serve as judges and as advocates-general. To date, the minute statement in itself will not be enough to guarantee panel has delivered 43 opinions, of which five were cost-neutrality, but would be a clear statement of the unfavourable. In each case, the opinions delivered by United Kingdom’s position ahead of the separate financial the panel have been followed by the Governments of negotiations next year on the annual budget. Indeed, member states. When the panel has been unhappy about the minute statement is not intended to secure budget the calibre of a particular nominee, that nominee has neutrality at this stage, but is intended to signal clearly subsequently been withdrawn. the beginning of our negotiating position for next year.

Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to my right hon. Keith Vaz: The Minister is bringing a great deal of Friend for giving way again. The agreement on the clarity to our discussion of the motion. Will he tell us advocates-general is by unanimity whereas the agreement how many members of that panel are from the United on the budget is by qualified majority vote. Are we Kingdom? therefore not getting it the wrong way round by agreeing to the increase in one before the debate on the other? Mr Lidington: We have one member on the panel. Should we not delay our agreement by unanimity until There are members from different member states we have the budget that we want? represented around the table. The panel has to be drawn from people who have the right kind of experience and Mr Lidington: These are two separate decisions that expertise to make these assessments. have two different processes. We are indeed talking On the specific appointees for the additional advocates- about a decision that is taken by unanimity. Annual general, we do not yet know who the candidates will be. budgets are what will determine the total budget of the Indeed, two of them will not be appointed until October Court for 2014 and subsequent years. Those annual 2015. It would not be right for me to comment on their budgets will have to be agreed within the ceilings to calibre or to speculate about those individuals at this commitments and payments that are set out in the stage. That is the purpose of the expert panel. multi-annual financial framework that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and other Heads of Government negotiated in February this year, and which I hope is Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): But does the approaching the final stages of negotiation with the Minister not agree that what we want is fewer judges European Parliament. because we want fewer cases? The judges we want are 301 Court of Justice of the European 11 JUNE 2013 Court of Justice of the European 302 Union Union [Mr John Redwood] Mr Lidington: As I was about to say, given that this request was only made by the Court on 16 January, and the ones who will uphold the sovereignty of national clearly a number of countries, including us, had to take Parliaments on far more issues than is currently the forward the necessary domestic processes for approval, case— the 1 July date was always an ambitious timetable for the first advocate-general. In addition to our requirement Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I for an affirmative debate in both Houses, Poland estimates have allowed the right hon. Gentleman to intervene on that its own appointment process will take about four the Minister even though he only arrived in the Chamber months. three minutes ago. However, the debate is about advocates- I agree with my hon. Friend that it is important that general, not about judges. the article 255 panel do its job properly and with due diligence. From what I know about the way it has Mr Lidington: I would say to my right hon. Friend operated in respect of other judicial appointments, I am the Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) that we very confident indeed that it will take that duty seriously need less legislation at European level. We need legislation and that, if it comes to a choice, it will regard exercising to be written as clearly as possible, so that there is less due diligence as more important than meeting any need for the arbitration of the Courts. Regarding some particular deadline. of his criticisms of the ambiguity and over-prescriptive The Government are still hopeful that if parliamentary nature of European law, I have to say that I have heard approval is secured today, the Council will be able to such criticism being made of United Kingdom Acts of approve the decision during the Irish presidency, which Parliament as well from time to time. None of this is ends at the end of June this year. Member states are able perfect. He might have missed the point that I made to appoint the first advocate-general at any point after earlier in my speech that British business finds it helpful that and do not need to wait until October 2015, when to have a European Court of Justice applying the rules the final two advocates-general will be added. of the single market with clarity and, one would hope, I hope that today’s debate will provide Members with with fairness. There have been a number of leading the opportunity to consider this proposal fully, and cases in which the decisions of the European Courts that, having done so, they will agree with the Government have led to significant practical advantages and that the addition of three advocates-general to the Court opportunities for United Kingdom businesses and business of Justice of the European Union is in the UK’s interests. sectors. As I said at the start of my remarks, this is a new I want to give a little additional information to the procedure for us. This is one of the provisions of the right hon. Member for Leicester East. I have been European Union Act 2011 and before Ministers can advised that Lord Mance is the United Kingdom’s vote in Council, the Government must secure affirmative member of the panel and that there are seven members resolutions in each House of Parliament. It is one small of it in total. From memory, they are people who are but none the less significant element of the work of trying selected on merit and who have held usually very senior to secure greater oversight by Parliament of decisions judicial office, perhaps in the constitutional court or taken by Ministers in Europe on behalf of this country, supreme court of their own country. and therefore in a small way helps to increase the democratic accountability of the EU, a principle that Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): I have just this Government strongly support. heard a muttering from behind me suggesting that Britain’s nomination is absolutely brilliant and there is 7.28 pm no doubt about that. The problem is that many people involved in these things on behalf of Europe come from Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): universities rather than real law. Where are the majority We welcome the opportunity to discuss the proposed of them from in this instance? increase in the number of advocates-general at the Court of Justice of the European Union. The Court performs a central role within the European Union. It Mr Lidington: I am happy to write to my hon. Friend has the responsibility of interpreting EU law and ensuring with a list of the members of the article 255 panel and its equal application across the member states. their qualifications and experience. I would rather not venture an opinion from memory, but they do have to As the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob be people who would be employed in their member Rees-Mogg) mentioned—the Minister also referred to states in selecting very senior judicial office holders. this point—although it may be true that when Labour was in government we did not always agree with the It might be helpful if I now set out for the House the Court’s rulings and sometimes found them problematic, likely next steps for this draft Council decision, if it is the Court and indeed the General Court play a crucial approved by Parliament. The Court would like to have role in upholding EU law as set out in the treaties, and the first additional advocate-general, the Polish one, in in ensuring the effective functioning of the internal post from 1 July this year and the other two from market in particular. ECJ rulings have proven successful October 2015, when there will be a partial replacement in enforcing competition rules and in ruling against of the members of the Court. protectionism, which is to the benefit of British businesses and British consumers. It is therefore necessary that the Jacob Rees-Mogg: If the Court hopes to have the Court has the capacity to carry out those important Polish advocate-general appointed by 1 July, is there time functions allocated to it under the treaties. In particular, for that person to be properly vetted by the article 255 it is important that it is able to issue judgments in an panel? effective and timely manner. 303 Court of Justice of the European 11 JUNE 2013 Court of Justice of the European 304 Union Union As has been said, a significant backlog of cases Both the European Court of Justice and the General continues to build and there are many reasons for that. Court have important responsibilities in terms of upholding As the Minister said last July, much of the recent delay not only EU legislation, but the four freedoms—freedom at the European Courts is down to increased litigation of movement of people, goods, capital and services. by private parties, particularly on single market matters. Just this year, the General Court ruled that in the event In addition, the enlargements of the EU in 2004 and of the cancellation of an air flight, the carrier is required 2007 have brought a raft of new cases before the Court, to provide compensation even when the cancellation is substantially increasing its workload. That trend is likely caused by extraordinary circumstances such as the eruption to continue, as Croatia is to join in only a few weeks’ of the volcano in Iceland in 2010. So the decisions of time, on 1 July. Unsurprisingly, these new member both the General Court and the European Court of states have made greater use of the preliminary ruling Justice have implications for British business, British procedure, which allows national courts to refer cases to consumers and British workers, and in many cases the ECJ for guidance on EU law. Enlargement has also those implications are positive. meant that there has been an increase in the number of The changes that we are debating in the motion will appeals against decisions of the General Court which ensure that the European Court of Justice is better able are taken to the ECJ. In 2008, just seven competition to carry out those duties, so we are content to support it. cases were appealed to the ECJ, whereas the figure had risen to 52 in 2012. Another factor is the changes introduced by the Lisbon treaty, particularly in the area 7.35 pm of justice and home affairs. The ECJ now has enhanced Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): I responsibilities in that field, and the changes were not congratulate the Minister on the Bill he brought forward just prospective, but retrospective with regard to the a year ago that allows us to hold this debate, which is body of law in this area already in place. Moreover, the crucial in ensuring that European matters are properly increasing complexity of cases brought before the Court discussed. As I understand it, we are the only member has added to the burden. state of the European Union that will have this type of The cumulative effect of all those factors is that the debate to make this important decision. advocates-general, in their current numbers, have sometimes Beyond that, I diverge from the Minister. I diverge been unable to deliver an opinion within an acceptable from him particularly in his admiration for this Court. I time limit. At present, as the Minister has explained, do not believe it to be a just Court. We must always eight advocates-general advise the Court on all matters remember, Mr Deputy Speaker, that it was this Court of European Union legislation. However, it is in only that ruled in its own favour to increase its own pay, about 50% of cases that an advocate-general is able to against one of the fundamental principles of justice—that issue an opinion. As has been pointed out in evidence a judge should not rule to his own advantage. So it is given to the House of the Lords by a representative of not a proper, just Court like the noble courts that we the Council of Bars and Law Societies of Europe, the have in this land; it is a Court with a political agenda, absence of an opinion by an advocate-general which is always pushing for more integration, for more “increases the risk of uneven or, on occasions, contradictory Europe, towards the federal superstate, which we in this caselaw.” House who value the sovereignty of Parliament and of the British people should treat with the greatest suspicion. So it would seem sensible to increase the number of The Minister spoke of the rulings that have come advocates-general, which would in turn increase the down occasionally in our favour, and the costs that we capacity of the ECJ to process cases in a timely manner. have been saved; I think BSE and pharmaceuticals were The Court proposes, and the Council has indicated it the two specific examples that he gave. I hope he might will agree to, an increase in the number of advocates-general consider doing a cost-benefit analysis of all the judgments from eight to 11, and the Minister has today reiterated delivered by the European Court of Justice, to decide the Government’s support for that change. As he has whether it has saved us money, or whether overall it has explained, the increase will be staggered, with one new cost the British taxpayer money, since we joined the advocate-general starting, we hope, on 1 July this year, European Union in 1972. and the other two appointed later. According to an But let us come particularly to the increase in the explanatory memorandum from the Minister given to number of advocates-general and what is being achieved the European Scrutiny Committee in March, the proposed by that. What we are really doing is contributing to the new advocates-general are predicted to cost an extra growth of the power, the bureaucracy, the size, of the ¤4 million. We agree with him that at a time of greater superstate that the European Union has become. By public spending restraint and economic difficulty it is making the European Court bigger and stronger and important that that money is found from within existing able to take on more cases, powers are more centred at budgets. the European level. They will have a greater ability to The ECJ has a budget of almost ¤354 million for determine the law in this country. The efficiency of the 2013, so it is to be expected that the money to pay for at European Court of Justice is something that should least the first new advocate-general may be found without make people who are concerned about parliamentary the need for an increase in the budget. Will the Minister sovereignty nervous, because the more efficient it can update the House? He mentioned the negotiations in be, the more it can interfere with our laws and the more preparation for next year on the financial implications it can take power away from Westminster. of this change. Will he say a little more about which And then we look at the cost: the ¤4 million cost that allies the UK Government have found in other member will be added to the total cost of the European Court—the states, and what he thinks the chances are of ensuring extraordinarily high cost that the European Court has that the change is cost-neutral? to start with of over ¤350 million. I looked up briefly 305 Court of Justice of the European 11 JUNE 2013 Court of Justice of the European 306 Union Union [Jacob Rees-Mogg] Lady Hermon: I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene on him a the cost of our own Supreme Court. It was estimated in second time. I listened carefully to his reply to my first 2009 to cost £13.5 million to run. Perhaps this is a case intervention. May I ask him for a reply to the question for privatisation to a British court, because if we can get that I asked: has he ever read a reasoned submission of justice in this country with our highest court for an advocate-general? £13.5 million, I wonder what it is that requires ¤350 million to be spent at the European level. Jacob Rees-Mogg: The hon. Lady asked me a question In a letter, the Minister explained some of the extra that went into sub-paragraphs on whether I was denying costs. These grand panjandrums—these advocates-general the great intellect of the advocates-general, which I —do not just get their pay and their staff; they have to think was at the heart of the matter, and I was saying have cars as well. It is all part of the great European that I admire their great intellect, but I do not want gravy train, with cost being piled on cost. When unanimity their great intellect deciding the rules of this country. I is the issue, the British Government, rather than taking want the intellects of the British people, sending Members the opportunity to use their power to delay or stop of Parliament to this House, to decide the laws of this something that the European Parliament, Commission country. I do not want rule by the cleverest continentals; and Court want, give in at an early stage, so the negotiating I want rule by the good, honest, British—English, Scottish, strength that we would have had when setting the Welsh and Northern Irish—people, ensuring that this budget is frittered away. I ask the Minister: what are we country is properly governed. hoping to get in return for not using our veto? I want the Government to do what they said they In our relationship with Europe, when we are in a were going to do in relation to increasing the number of position of strength and we hold the good cards, do judges when, in a letter of 27 July 2012, they said that we play the ace of trumps? No, we do not; we play some the increase in judges should be part lesser card that I would know more about if I were “of a wider discussion on improving the efficiency of the Court a better gambler. That is the error of our European and containing its cost.” relationship. We talk in this House about repatriating But now, less than a year later, we roll over and say, powers, but when we negotiate in Europe, we continue “Have a few more advocates-general because it will to give them away to allow the European centre to make you more efficient.” This cannot be the right become stronger. negotiating stance to take. Again and again, it is more Europe, more advocates-general, more smart cars for Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind): I am most apologetic them to drive round in, more cost to the British taxpayer—a for the fact that I was not here in the earlier part of the very high cost—and instead of saying, “This must debate, but I did hurry into the Chamber. Has the hon. change; we will change it; powers must be repatriated,” Gentleman ever read a reasoned submission by an we roll over and wait for our tummies to be tickled. I do advocate-general? Knowing him slightly as I do, and not want my tummy tickled and I do not want more knowing the quality of his contributions to the House, I advocates-general. am convinced that he would be most impressed by the logic, intellect and reasoning in some of those submissions. I think that if he took the time to peruse them, he would 7.45 pm support the motion. Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I do not know Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to the hon. Lady, but whether that is an invitation for me to cross the Floor she misses the point that I am trying to make, and and tickle the tummy of the hon. Member for North evidently not making clearly enough. It is not an efficient, East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), although I would smooth-running European Court that I want, because love to do it in normal circumstances. It is always a that is at the heart of the political expansion and pleasure to follow him because he speaks so powerfully centralising power of the European Union. If we look about these issues and studies them so carefully that he at what the European Union has done, and how it has knows that a few months ago the Government promised become an increasingly federalised system, we see that to look carefully at the way in which the Court operates. it has done so through the judgments of the European I will be brief because I promised the hon. Member Court, which has increasingly ruled in favour of more for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) that I would be, and we Europe. It is a political Court, much as the United have an opportunity to discuss other European issues States Supreme Court was in the early 19th century. It is tomorrow. I welcome the fact that we are having so about bringing federalism to the peoples of Europe. I many discussions about Europe on the Floor of the accept that it has some of the highest intellects as House. That takes me to my first point, which is how members; I would not begin to deny that. We have sent much I agree with the hon. Member for North East some very fine judges there, with prodigious brains, Somerset about how important it is that we discuss such ability and intellect, but what they have done after issues on the Floor of the House, even though the getting there is take power away from the United Kingdom attendance is not quite what we would have liked. and this Parliament. That is what I most strongly object [Interruption.] The Government Whip reminds me that to, and I object to the Government not using their it is the quality that counts, not the numbers. It is indeed. negotiating position to get something in return. The Minister said that this was not additional expenditure The Conservative part of this coalition is looking to a because it was to be found from the European Court’s renegotiation, to repatriate powers, but at the same existing budget and because the European Court had time, it is doing things that increase the power and underspent. If indeed the European Court has underspent, authority of the European Court. That seems to me to I would like to know what encouragement the Government be fundamentally a mistake. have given it to ensure that rather than appoint more 307 Court of Justice of the European 11 JUNE 2013 Court of Justice of the European 308 Union Union advocates-general the money is used to make it more The Government should never take it for granted that, efficient. The fact that it has been unable to use the because there are so few Members present and because underspend to improve its efficiency is clear from the Opposition Front Benchers agree with them on an considerable time it has taken to decide a number of issue, they will never be challenged on one of these important cases. Will the Minister explain what steps motions. There should always be an expectation that the Government have taken over the last 12 months to Parliament will decide to do something different, which ensure that the Court becomes more efficient, because it at least we have the chance to do so. I warmly welcome has more money available to do so? that. I fully support Poland getting the new advocate-general seat. As the Minister’s predecessor, I was involved in the 7.52 pm enlargement process. We always thought, and thought correctly, that, given its population, Poland would want Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): It is a pleasure to take its place as one of the big countries of Europe. I to follow the right hon. Member for Leicester East am glad that we are sticking to the agreement that we (Keith Vaz), as indeed it is a pleasure to follow the hon. made that Poland should have this additional post. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg)—two However, I am not sure that the Minister told us who of the most eloquent Members in this place. I agree would get the other two vacancies, and how that would almost entirely with everything the right hon. Member be decided. If they are up for grabs, so to speak, and for Leicester East said, and I disagree to the same extent bearing in mind the importance of the enlargement with everything the hon. Member for North East Somerset process, perhaps it would be a good idea, rather than said. In my view he says the wrong thing, but he says it offer them to other countries that are already represented very well. on the Court, to offer them to countries that have joined I agree with the hon. Member for North East Somerset because of the enlargement process. One of the most on one point, however: he is quite right to emphasise important outcomes of enlargement is that we make the importance of the fact that the debate is taking representation in the European Union wider. place at all, which is a realisation of the intentions we had when we passed the European Union Act 2011. Mr Lidington: I can give the right hon. Gentleman Whatever differences might have emerged since between some clarity on this point. The proposal is that the the two coalition parties over our attitude to European remaining two new advocates-general should become scrutiny, take-note debates and debates on approvals of part of the normal rotation process for the nomination Government actions in relation to Europe, such as this of advocates-general among those member states that one, are important procedures that we agreed in the are not entitled to a permanent advocate-general of 2011 Act. It set out the terms and conditions under their own. In other words, it is all of the soon-to-be 28 which referendums would be held and under which member states of the EU minus the biggest six countries, votes of this Parliament would have an impact on once these new measures are in place. We would expect, European decision making, which is an entirely good thing. if the current arrangements for rotation continue, the We have occasionally complained about the lack of two new advocates-general in 2015 to come from the thoroughness of European scrutiny in this place—for Czech Republic and from Denmark. example, over the recent review of the EU arms embargo and its timeliness—but on this occasion I think that the Keith Vaz: I thank the Minister for that clarification belt-and-braces approach is working rather well. The and look forward to ensuring that that expectation is fact that there is a rather thin turnout suggests that we met. might even be overdoing the level of scrutiny on this occasion. We do not seem to have a very high turnout, My final point relates to the speed of the Court. The even on the ultramontane Conservative Benches. hon. Member for North East Somerset wants the Court to slow down, because he believes that speeding it up will result in greater integration. I am in favour of Jacob Rees-Mogg: I think that my hon. Friend would speeding it up, which is why I support the proposal for be more charitable to the Conservative Benches if he move advocates-general, not to ensure that we have a knew that there was the alternative attraction of a federalist Europe, which I oppose, but to ensure that the meeting with the Prime Minister and Mr Lynton Crosby. decisions they have to take are dealt with in a timely fashion. The delay is inexcusable. It should be considered Martin Horwood: They are obviously discussing very carefully. I am disappointed that the Minister Australian affairs, rather than European ones, but I am could not assure the House that, as a result of the sure they are having a productive time. decision to appoint three additional advocates-general, It seems to me that Conservative Members, having the Court’s decisions would be speeded up, because of argued so strongly for such an inordinate amount of course he has no evidence to suggest that appointing parliamentary time to be devoted to Europe, should another three will make the decisions come through any turn up and exercise their right to pass comment. quicker—they will take their time to do what they have A strong European Court of Justice has to be a good to do. I would like to see decisions made much more thing for the UK. It is the ultimate court in which quickly in a whole host of areas, and primarily in one matters of EU law are determined within the European area that I believe is very important. If decisions have to Union. That is a good thing for Britain because it be made as part of the legal process, they should be made ensures not only, on occasion, that we are compliant as quickly as possible, because that benefits all parties. with EU law but, most importantly, that all the other I will end where I began by agreeing with the hon. 27 member states are too. As the Minister rightly pointed Member for North East Somerset: it is so important out, that frequently benefits British companies. Given that we discuss these issues on the Floor of the House. the value of our relationship with Europe, it is crucial 309 Court of Justice of the European 11 JUNE 2013 Court of Justice of the European 310 Union Union [Martin Horwood] British jobs, so on this occasion we are four-square behind the Government in supporting the expansion of that the single market operates properly and is seen to the European Court to allow for the extra advocates-general. be properly enforceable. If we argue for weakening that process, we are not only arguing for Britain to have a 7.59 pm greater say over our interpretation of European law but for the French to have a greater say over its interpretation Mr Lidington: I am grateful to all right hon. and hon. in France and for the Germans to have a greater say in Members who have taken part in the debate and shall Germany, and so on. Ultimately, the system becomes attempt to respond briefly, with the leave of the House, unworkable and unfair. to the various points and questions that have been posed. The hon. Member for North East Somerset was I turn first to the characteristically eloquent speech wrong to object to a smooth-running and efficient by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset Court almost on principle, as I understood his remarks. (Jacob Rees-Mogg). He and I have debated in the past It is wrong to use a court of justice as a negotiating tool and I am sure we will have opportunities to debate and a lever for a political agenda. This is about the fair again the extent to which there should be European application of European law to British businesses and Union-level competence over particular areas of policy. to the institutions of the European Union. In that He and I may agree on some parts of that debate, and respect, he should strongly support this, because the we will certainly have different views on others. The European Court of Justice has the right to tell EU point of principle in the context of today’s debate seems institutions that they have overstepped the mark and to be that if European-level rules and laws have been exceeded their powers. established and legislated for at the EU level—most obviously to govern a single market in goods and Jacob Rees-Mogg: I apologise for not making myself services—we need some kind of supranational EU tribunal clear. The reason I do not want it to be efficient is that I or arbiter to decide on the interpretation of those laws do not believe it is just. and rules and to resolve any conflicting assertions as to the correct interpretation of them.

Martin Horwood: We have sent some of our best Lady Hermon: On the jurisprudence of the European quality advocates and lawyers to take part in the European Court of Justice, I am sure that it has not gone unnoticed Court of Justice, and other states have done likewise. It that it always wishes to promote equality between men is rather insulting to the advocates-general and, indeed, and women. Have the Minister and his colleagues pressed judges who are in place to say to that it is not capable of the ECJ to ensure that the new advocate-general will passing a just judgment. make the existing advocates-general representative of I am very pleased that the position of the British men and women across Europe? Government is that the additional cost of the extra advocates-general should be met from within the existing Mr Lidington: The hon. Lady is right that, on Court budget. I gather that that will be an additional jurisprudence, the Court has treated this issue as one of ¤4 million or so, of which Britain’s share is probably great importance. Of course, it is for individual member ¤500,000, or some £400,000, a year. I would entirely states to nominate men or women to serve as advocates- support any measures that we can take to impose further general, and it will then be for the article 255 panel to austerity on these judges. That would be a useful thing consider whether those nominees meet the strict criteria to consider if they really are getting free cars. There is a and standard required under the treaties. I would hope need for the European Union collectively to realise that that there is fair representation. It is important that the European finances are in a parlous state. That applies as ablest men and women are willing to be considered as much to the EU level of government as it does to the potential candidates. British level or to local or regional governments. In a time of austerity, it is absolutely right to look at the Lady Hermon: I am grateful to the Minister for costs involved in such positions. It is a good discipline taking a second intervention. I hope that, aided and for us to be saying that the additional three advocates- abetted by his lovely team, he will now be able to throw general should be paid for from within the existing some light on the current composition of the Court’s European Court budget. advocates-general. That money could be well spent on behalf of British businesses, because the benefits of a freely and efficiently Mr Lidington: I will write to the hon. Lady with that operating single market could be enormously greater. information, but I can tell her now that, as I am sure she After all, we have £300 billion-worth of trade with already knows, the United Kingdom’s advocate-general other members of the European Union, we get £365 billion is indeed a woman who, whether one agrees or disagrees a year in foreign direct investment from other member with her particular opinions, is an extremely able lawyer states, some 3.5 million jobs are associated with trade who contributes a great deal to the work of the Court. with the EU, and some 200,000 British businesses trade My hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset with other member states. The single market is enormously argued that the Government should carry out a cost-benefit important for jobs. We need it to operate fairly and analysis of the Court’s impact on the United Kingdom. efficiently in order to benefit British jobs, and that The Government, as the House will know, have launched means that the European Court of Justice must operate a review of the current balance of competences between smoothly and efficiently. That justifies the appointment the United Kingdom and the European Union. The of additional advocates-general to try to clear the enormous 32 calls for evidence and reports on different aspects of backlog of cases that now exists. I care very much about policy will give ample opportunity to businesses and jobs in Cheltenham, and Liberal Democrats care about others to argue where ECJ decisions have been of 311 Court of Justice of the European 11 JUNE 2013 312 Union benefit to this country and where they have been harmful. for the Court to propose if it is persuaded that it is the Without revealing too much, I can tell the House that right course on which to embark. As the hon. Member the forthcoming report on taxation policy—it is as yet for North Down (Lady Hermon) and other Members unpublished—will make specific reference to leading will know, the House of Lords Sub-Committee that is cases in the European courts and how they have had an considering these matters has produced detailed reports impact on the United Kingdom. on Court reform and efficiency. My hon. Friend also said that he wished that the Finally, let me turn to finance. The UK is one of a Government had demonstrated a willingness to exercise group of like-minded, budget-disciplined member states a veto over the measure for the appointment of three that work together routinely to push down the EU’s new advocates-general. I say to him that a veto should annual budget costs. The group includes Denmark, not be brandished if we think that the measure concerned Finland, Sweden, the Netherlands, France, Germany will be to our overall advantage. I also say to him that and Austria as well as us, and we have no reason to the Prime Minister has shown that he is willing to believe it will be less focused on budget discipline this exercise a veto and to block measures that he believes year. It is fair to say to the House that the ¤4 million would harm the interests of this country. We must use needed for the advocates-general cannot be negotiated our negotiating capital skilfully and be prepared to be in isolation and would be one part of an annual budget cussed and awkward if necessary about the things that negotiation of roughly ¤130 billion in total. The bill for really matter to the interests of the British people. The the advocates-general and their staff would be less than Government have been right to play hardball on issues one 100th of a percentage of the EU’s total annual such as the multi-annual financial framework and the budget for 2013. long overdue reform of the common fisheries policy, To respond to the hon. Member for Wolverhampton and in our refusal last year to accept the proposal to set North East, I say that the Court can request funds, but up an operational headquarters for the EU’s common funding is for co-decision by the Council and the European security and defence policy. Parliament. If we look at what has been happening in I was asked a number of questions by the hon. the EU’s annual budget for 2013, we see that the Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Court requested an increase to its budget of 8.4%— Reynolds), my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham ¤29.2 million—which in percentage terms was the biggest (Martin Horwood) and others about Court reform and requested increase for any EU institution that year. In how we were seeking to promote greater efficiency, and practice, the UK and its allies worked together to reduce about financing. I will deal with those two central that increase to just 1.9% in 2013—slightly below the level questions before concluding my remarks. of inflation. There is no reason to believe that the same On Court reform, a key point to emphasise is that the could not be achieved on budget neutrality for the treaties give the Court of Justice the prime role in advocates-general, particularly given the underspend in initiating proposals for its reform. Under article 281 of the Court’s budget in each of the past three years. the treaty on the functioning of the European Union, Clearly this matter is one component of a much changes to the Court’s statute can be proposed by the bigger negotiation, and the Court’s total budget forms Court on its own initiative after consulting the Commission just one part of the overall annual EU budget. There is, or by the Commission after consultation with the Court. however, no doubt about the Government’s determination The Court can propose amendments to its rules of to ensure that those small additional costs are met from procedure, but they need the approval of the Council. within the Court’s existing budget, and in particular its There is a Council lock on proposals, but the proposals publicly known underspending. We will continue to must in the main come forward from the Court. The work assiduously for the best possible efficiency and the House will readily understand why the treaties were greatest possible value for money, not just in the affairs written in a way that protects the Court to some extent of the European Courts but in every institution of the from political pressures. Within that context, we have European Union. been consistent in urging the Court to take seriously its Question put and agreed to. duty to look hard at the possibility of internal administrative Resolved, and procedural reform, as well as looking for other ways to enhance its efficiency and deal more promptly That this House takes note of European Union Document No. 7013/13, the draft Council Decision increasing the number of with the growing backlog of cases. Advocates-General of the Court of Justice of the European The reforms that have been agreed over the past two Union and, in accordance with Section 10 of the European years, with the support of the United Kingdom, have Union Act 2011, approves Her Majesty’s Government’s intention included establishing the new office of the vice-president to support the adoption of that draft Council Decision. of the European Court of Justice and General Court. The quorum in the Grand Chamber has been changed Business without Debate to allow greater flexibility. We have seen the abolition of the requirement for a report for hearing and for the reading of that report. That has saved a lot of time DELEGATED LEGISLATION when one adds up the savings accumulated over a large Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing number of cases. We have seen the agreement to create a Order No. 118(6)), pool of temporary judges for the civil service tribunal. We have also seen changes to the ECJ’s rules of procedure TRIBUNALS AND INQUIRIES to provide greater efficiency. That the draft Employment Tribunals and the Employment Other ideas are still being discussed. One to which the Appeal Tribunal Fees Order 2013, which was laid before this UK Government are quite sympathetic is the creation House on 24 April, in the previous Session of Parliament, be of specialist chambers within the Court. However, that is approved.—(Greg Hands.) 313 Business without Debate 11 JUNE 2013 314

The Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the Question Budock Hospital Site being challenged, the Division was deferred until Wednesday Motion made, and Question proposed, 12 June (Standing Order No. 41A). That this House do now adjourn.—(Greg Hands.) Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)), 8.13 pm

TRIBUNALS AND INQUIRIES Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): Although That the draft Added Tribunals (Employment Tribunals and this is not the sort of thing one must declare, I declare Employment Appeal Tribunal) Order 2013, which was laid before an interest as I am proud to be a former pupil of this House on 24 April, in the previous Session of Parliament, be Falmouth school. It must be the only school in the approved.—(Greg Hands.) country to have a former hospital in the centre of its Question agreed to. campus. Budock hospital was for people with psychiatric Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing care needs or significant learning difficulties. The top Order No. 118(6)), half of the former hospital site houses the buildings, and the lower slopes—known locally as Trelawney’s field—were originally jointly managed by the school IMMIGRATION with NHS social services and a farm project for young That the draft Accession of Croatia (Immigration and Worker people with learning difficulties. I have fond memories Authorisation) Regulations 2013, which were laid before this House on 8 May, be approved.—(Greg Hands.) of volunteering for that project as a sixth-form student. Question agreed to. The current head teacher has been in place for 12 years or more. Throughout that time, Cornwall council has Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing had various conversations with the NHS to try to secure Order No. 119(11)), the lower part of the site for educational purposes, facilitating access to the playing fields on the far side of YOUTH EMPLOYMENT INITIATIVE the hospital. The hospital was demolished, and the That this House takes note of European Union Documents whole site was reclaimed and fenced off by the NHS in No. 7589/13, a Commission Communication: YouthEmployment 2008. The school has had an overgrown and derelict site Initiative, No. 7533/13, a draft amendment for a Commission proposal COM(2011) 607 final/2 – draft regulation of the European at its centre for five years, which presents significant Parliament and of the Council on the European Social Fund and safeguarding concerns for the school. repealing Council Regulation (EC) No. 1081/2006, and No. 7537/13, The NHS had several schemes to relocate health a draft amendment to Commission proposal COM(2012) 496 – services to the site, but they have never materialised. draft regulation of the European Parliament and Council laying The schools, local sports groups and the wider community down common provisions on the European Regional Development in the town have no access to floodlit all-weather sports Fund, the European Social Fund, the Cohesion Fund, the European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development and the European facilities—groups must travel to Penryn, Truro and Maritime and Fisheries Fund covered by the Common Strategic Redruth to access such facilities when there are available Framework and laying down general provisions on the European slots. Regional Development Fund, the European Social Fund and the On 8 February 2012, the head teacher wrote to NHS Cohesion Fund and repealing Council Regulation (EC) No. 1083/2006; Cornwall to register an interest in purchasing the hospital and agrees with the Government that the Youth Employment Initiative must respect the principles of proportionality and site if and when it goes on the market. At a subsequent subsidiarity, and give Member States and regions the flexibility to meeting, a Mr Wakeham said he would take the school’s support the most effective interventions possible with the best use interest to the NHS board. Despite follow-up calls, no of resources, in a way that complements their existing policies and decision was made. programmes to tackle youth unemployment.—(Greg Hands.) In April 2012, the school appointed a land agent to Question agreed to. negotiate with the NHS on its behalf to try to secure the Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing purchase of the site. The agent had numerous discussions Order No. 119(11)), with the NHS, but no resolution was secured. In May 2013, after several letters from me, the school managed FINANCING EUROPEAN POLITICAL PARTIES to meet representatives of the newly formed NHS property That this House takes note of European Union Document service company and its agents, BNP Paribas, Origin 3 No. 6321/13, Opinion No. 1/2013 concerning draft Commission planning consultants and Cyril Sweett quantity surveyors. Regulations on the statute and funding of European political It was made clear at the meeting that the NHS and its parties and foundations and to amend the Financial Regulation agents felt bound by Government requirements to secure (EU, Euratom No. 966/2012) as regards the financing of European the highest price for the site on the open market without political parties; notes that these proposals are still being considered consideration of community benefit. We know that that by the Council; and supports the Government’s position that this contravenes the Government’s policy and guidelines. report is a welcome contribution to ongoing negotiations, and that the UK, along with other Member States, should endeavour The school presented the proposed plans for development to ensure the draft regulations are amended, where necessary, to and the local planning officers explained the local planning reflect some of the concerns expressed in this Opinion.—(Greg framework progress and emerging needs for the town. Hands.) Those points seemed to be of little interest to the Question agreed to. agents, who reinforced the fact that their clients were interested only in securing the best price for the land. On 24 May, BNP Paribas released the site to the market with “residential potential”. That would make Falmouth school probably the only school in the country with a housing estate right in the middle of its campus. The council, as landowners, has advised that the local 315 Budock Hospital Site11 JUNE 2013 Budock Hospital Site 316 planning framework has earmarked the site for educational A full-sized, 3G all-weather pitch costs about £800,000, purposes. The school is prepared to pay educational although there may be some unknown ground works to land value for the site. contend with. Falmouth school’s current site is fragmented. The The school has consulted the newly elected local aim is to consolidate it and make significant improvements Cornwall council members, and all support the project, to benefit the whole community. One satellite field of as do the newly elected town councillor for the ward, the school at Union corner is inaccessible for curriculum the mayor of Falmouth and the town centre manager. A use owing to its location across a busy main road into public meeting was held on 16 May 2013 and all present the town. The school is proposing to sell that field to supported the scheme. Falmouth university supports raise the funds to buy the hospital site and install a the project. Sports groups pledging their support include: full-size, 3G all-weather pitch for school and wider Cornwall Squash and Rackets Association, Cornwall community use. The two sites—Union corner and Budock football association, Falmouth hockey club, Falmouth Road hospital—are similar sizes. Runners, Falmouth Town football club, Falmouth United football club, Falmouth cricket club and Falmouth The architect confirms that approximately 90 to rugby club—we have a thriving sporting community in 100 houses—a mixture of terraced, semi-detached and Falmouth. detached, and the appropriate number of affordable The school council has been consulted and the wider housing—could be built on the Union corner site. school population has been advised, and all are excited Approximate valuations from the council suggest that about the prospects. Today I received a letter from the the school’s estimate of £2 million as a receipt for the Minister saying that the former hospital site will be site is realistic. taken off the market. I cannot thank the Minister enough for his intervention. The headmistress and the The local planning framework proposes approximately whole school community wanted me to pass on their 3,200 new homes in the immediate area of Falmouth and thanks for his helpful intervention to help us find a the school, and there will be a need for a further resolution to this situation. I am very pleased that it has 400 secondary school places in the medium term. been taken off the market, so that we can have another Consolidation of the site and improved sports facilities meeting and get around the table with the NHS property represents best value for the taxpayer, because it will company, the district valuer, the whole council and allow the existing school to meet the needs of more students myself. This is welcome news. —there are currently just over 1,000 on the roll. If the project does not go ahead, the school will not be able to I was, however, slightly concerned by something in grow, and the council could be forced into a building a the letter. The NHS property company is advocating new school, or parents and council might have to pay the original offer from some time ago, of a land swap for transport to schools some distance from Falmouth. option to resolve the issue. This is no longer the best outcome. Let me explain why. Approximately 15 months There is also the implication of the essential road ago, the primary care trust and the school were in talks junction improvement at Union corner, which needs regarding a straightforward land swap, as the size and this land. The infrastructure is essential for delivering value of the two sites were relatively similar. However, wider growth for the town. The road scheme has secured because of the changes to the planning framework, essential and substantial part-funding towards its delivery. which I have already outlined, the hospital site is designated The road will become the main artery, making access to as educational, while the Union corner playing field is the school’s satellite field even more difficult. The scheme now clearly designated as residential. This changes the submitted to the Department for Transport totalled value of the two sites. As a result, the land swap would £2.23 million, and it has secured just under £1.6 million not be the best use of public money or of these two through pinch-point funding—we were delighted to sites. I am grateful that NHS Property Services has receive that news two weeks ago. It is also included in a signalled that it is prepared to get around the table—this bid for £500,000 of round 4 of the regional growth recent change of attitude is very welcome. Although I fund. Cornwall council is currently waiting for approval, do not think the swap is the best way forward, I am sure which is expected in mid-July. The remainder funds that, with the Minister’s support, we can find a sensible have already been allocated from the council’s local solution that works for the NHS—hard-pressed as it is transport funds. and in need of every penny to invest in front-line services, as we all appreciate—for Falmouth school, for Cornwall council will still seek to claw back funding Cornwall council and for the wider community. from future developments given their impact on this junction, but the funding will be used to deliver the In conclusion, this is an immensely important scheme wider improvements identified in the Falmouth and Penryn for Falmouth. It will be an Olympic legacy in terms of strategy. The published local plan document highlights improved sports facilities for the whole community. It the hospital site as being required for development. will put the school on a secure footing for generations Cornwall council’s draft infrastructure development plan to come and contribute to the economic redevelopment emphasised the need for the sports facility. It described of this part of Falmouth, bringing much-needed affordable it as essential as Falmouth continues to grow. homes and supporting exciting new and growing companies in the area. Having received the Minister’s support in The school has consulted the Education Funding his letter today, I now seek an assurance that the land Agency regarding the sale of the Union corner site to swap will not be the only option. If following the acquire the former Budock hospital site. As the school meeting on 21 June with all the parties concerned, will meet all the conditions in section 77 of the School which I am chairing, we can make a sensible case for Standards and Framework Act 1998, it will achieve this giving significant funds to the NHS while enabling us to consent. The council suggests that the educational value realise this important project, we will be very content of the Budock hospital site is approximately £750,000. indeed. 317 Budock Hospital Site11 JUNE 2013 Budock Hospital Site 318

8.26 pm dealing with Falmouth and nowhere else. There may be a good story to tell but we can save that for another The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health day. (Dr Daniel Poulter): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) on Dr Poulter: Indeed. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, securing this debate and on her ongoing tremendous for bringing me back to the task in hand. There are advocacy on behalf of her constituents. She talked many good stories to tell from other constituencies but eloquently of her own knowledge of the school—“care you are quite right; we should focus on how successes in farm”is the expression I would use in my constituency—and Ludlow and South Suffolk can be translated into success the relationship between the school and the old hospital. at the Budock hospital site. She highlighted the importance when looking for value The focus of NHS Property Services is about resolving in NHS land of doing as much as possible to maximise some local planning concerns where PCTs have had the land receipt and put that money back into the NHS, difficulties in the past, which is what we are going to but of course NHS land is community land, and it is concentrate on. I understand that Falmouth school’s important that, wherever possible, we work with plans to purchase the Budock site pre-date the transfer surrounding communities to support them in local activities of land to NHS Property Services on 1 April 2013. The that benefit the population. school and the former Cornwall and Isles of Scilly My hon. Friend also outlined eloquently the challenges primary care trust had previously agreed to enter into a faced by more rural parts of the country, and Cornwall land swap to release the school’s playing fields—which in particular. We know that community resources and were difficult to access—for the hospital site. The NHS facilities are much scarcer in rural areas, as she highlighted was then to dispose of the playing fields for housing in her speech. When we look at the affordability of local land. homes and the provision of community facilities, rurality is an important consideration and one that we always I understand that differences in the size and estimated bear in mind in the NHS. value of the sites, and planning permission issues, had prevented both parties from reaching agreement to I appreciate my hon. Friend’s interest in the Budock progress this proposal, which commenced some time hospital site and support her concern that best use ago in 2011. be made of public sector land not only in releasing its monetary value, but regarding the availability of affordable The Government’s priority for easing the shortage of homes for local people to live in. I understand that NHS land for housing development is to see development Property Services has intervened to begin the process of take place in sustainable locations; the predominantly facilitating a mutually beneficial resolution of the issues brownfield sites of some of the old NHS estate no previously hindering the sale of this land to the local longer used for clinical purposes can help bring forward school. Those issues predate the transfer of ownership land for affordable homes to be built for local families. to NHS Property Services, and were between the former The Budock site is brownfield land and is located in a Cornwall and Isles of Scilly primary care trust and settlement that is forecast to experience significant growth Falmouth school. Thanks to swift action since NHS over the coming years, as my hon. Friend outlined. Property Services took over control of the NHS estate, The site was assessed under the Cornwall strategic the issues are well on their way to being unlocked. NHS housing land availability assessment and found to be Property Services inherited a portfolio of 4,000 other suitable for approximately 100 dwellings. My hon. Friend properties from 161 disparate previous NHS organisations will also be aware that Treasury guidelines on managing on 1 April, and a win-win resolution is now in sight. public money state that public sector organisations may I am sure we will have other debates on similar transfer assets among themselves without placing the matters, so it is worth outlining to the House the role of property on the open market, provided they do so at NHS Property Services and some early successes that market prices. They also state that the organisations have occurred. On 1 April, NHS Property Services should work collaboratively on the transfer to agree a inherited about 4,000 NHS assets, including health price, and that it is good practice to commission a single centres, office accommodation, care homes and hospital independent valuation to settle the price to be paid. My buildings. It houses about 12,000 tenants and is valued hon. Friend said that is the plan in this case. at more than £3 billion. It also inherited more than I am pleased to report that NHS Property Services 3,000 members of staff from former PCTs and strategic and the school have agreed that the original proposal health authorities throughout England. This brand new can be revisited, with a planned joint instruction to the organisation is already doing tremendous work in the district valuer from both parties. NHS Property Services face of this huge challenge to create efficient, fit-for-purpose has agreed with Falmouth school that it will take the facilities and services for the benefit of patients and the Budock hospital site off the market while reviewing the public. All too often in the past, there was an unacceptable original land swap option. To enable both the school variability in estates management—not just in this case, and NHS Property Services to deliver these proposals, but throughout the NHS—by PCTs and SHAs. The support will be required from the local planning authority advantage of having estate management under one to ensure that a clear planning brief is available for both central roof has already paid dividends throughout the sites. I am sure my hon. Friend will be helpful in NHS. The creation of NHS Property Services has generated facilitating that accord. This will ensure that both an opportunity to explore options to bring together a organisations and the district valuer can understand fragmented system— and agree an estimated value for both sites. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. May This value can be demonstrated in land value and in I just gently remind the Minister that this is a very tight wider community benefits such as housing, health and debate? We are talking about one site; we should be well-being, and education and leisure use. My hon. 319 Budock Hospital Site11 JUNE 2013 Budock Hospital Site 320

Friend eloquently outlined the many local sports and authority. The report should set out a programme to leisure groups that are hugely supportive of this project, include a target of three to six months for initial agreement, and rightly so. The project will be for the sake of the in the form of a contract to be reached for the transaction. local community and would be beneficial as well to the This could take a number of forms, subject to the NHS through the profits from the land, which could be advice that both parties receive from the district valuer— distributed elsewhere to support local NHS projects. contract for sale and option agreement. The potential outcome from this approach is a win-win This evening my hon. Friend has eloquently outlined situation for the local community, the school and the the case for why the project should go ahead. I will of NHS. NHS Property Services will be able to maximise course be monitoring progress on the ground. The door receipts from the sale of the current school playing is always open for her to come and see me if there are fields for reinvestment in front-line NHS services. Falmouth further problems or concerns. I am sure that her tremendous school and the wider community will benefit from advocacy on behalf of her constituents will continue to improved access to leisure facilities on the former hospital unlock the potential of these proposals and make them site, and much needed housing development in the a reality. Falmouth area will be brought one step closer. I understand Question put and agreed to. that an initial report setting out the context and options for the proposed transaction can be delivered within six weeks. That will require the co-operation of the school, 8.35 pm NHS Property Services and, importantly, the local planning House adjourned.

1WH 11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 2WH

Government to lay down the law on this, but we will Westminster Hall have a discussion over the next five years, and perhaps the younger generation will engage in it. Tuesday 11 June 2013 Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there were two main consequences [MRS LINDA RIORDAN in the Chair] of the first world war? One was that 16 million were dead and the second was the second world war. First World War Commemoration Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting Mr Keith Simpson: With the greatest of respect to the be now adjourned.—(Mark Lancaster.) hon. Gentleman, I am not here to debate that. It may well be that at some later date we will have a full-scale 9.30 am debate about commemorating the first world war, either through the Backbench Business Committee or in Mr Keith Simpson (Broadland) (Con): It is a great Government time. I am merely giving two interpretations, pleasure, Mrs Riordan, to serve under your chairmanship. and I happen to believe that one of them is correct. We are witnessing today a strange reversal of life, in My purpose in introducing this short debate today is that I am doing a presentation to the Minister, whom I to reflect the fact that there has been considerable taught some 20 years ago when he was an officer cadet. interest in both Houses in the commemoration. Two It will be interesting to see whether he is as critical of of my hon. Friends, here today, have already secured me as I perhaps was of him. short debates on the subject. On 6 March, my hon. May I begin by declaring three interests—not pecuniary Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys ones—that I have in relation to the subject? The first is (Paul Maynard) introduced a debate entitled, “Youth that for many years I taught military history at the participation: first world war commemorations”, and, military academy of Sandhurst and at the staff college, on 13 March, my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and I wrote or edited several books to do with the and Hythe (Damian Collins) introduced a debate on the British Army and the first world war. Secondly, I am first world war centenary. Folkestone will be one of the one of two parliamentary commissioners representing commemorative points next August; it was from Folkestone the House of Commons on the Commonwealth War that many tens of thousands of soldiers went by cross- Graves Commission. Thirdly, I am a member of the channel steamer to Belgium and France. There have Prime Minister’s advisory board on commemorating been oral questions and debates in the House of Lords the first world war. as well. We cannot get away from the fact that the first world The Government have outlined a six-year programme war is a controversial subject. It was controversial at the of events around the themes of remembrance, youth time. When the Liberal Government decided to declare and education. I do not intend to go into any details, as war on Germany, following the German invasion of many colleagues here will be aware of it. The Belgium, several Liberal Ministers resigned from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and the Imperial Cabinet. During the war, there were the conscientious War museum are central to the commemoration, but I objectors, and those, such as Lord Lansdowne, who also want to flag up the role of the National Archives, wanted at different times to reach a peace settlement. which have hundreds of thousands—if not millions—of The subject has also been controversial since then. documents and photographs relating to the first world Many veterans felt that they were betrayed. In the war, specifically to the war service of men and women, 1960s, during the anniversary of the first world war, an and a lot of other things such as operational diaries. enormous debate went on. Films and programmes such People now can get easy access to such information. as “Oh! What A Lovely War” and “Blackadder Goes The importance of the commemoration is not just Forth”probably have a bigger impact on public perceptions the fact that the Government are going to set an overview, of Britain and the first world war than all the memoirs but that it will be bottom up. It is the work done already and history books, and we can see that today. over many decades by individuals and local communities The Government are in a difficult position, trying to who wish to look at the people behind the names, organise a commemoration that reflects the general particularly on things such as war memorials. We have a feeling of the British public, which is that this is something wide range of interest groups such as the Western Front to commemorate in a positive way. It is about not only Association and the War Memorials Trust, which have remembrance and reconciliation but pride. However, already done very good work—hon. Members will know looking in the newspapers, I can see that my old friend that from their constituencies. Max Hastings has written a story asking whether the Government are sucking up to the Germans—“Don’t Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ mention the war!” That is not true. Co-op): I apologise for having missed the first sentence I happen to be in the historical camp that believes or two of the hon. Gentleman’s remarks; I was attending that Britain was right to go to war in 1914, by the end of a Delegated Legislation Committee. I am a trustee of which we had beaten imperial Germany. Many Germans the War Memorials Trust and I am pleased to hear him of the current generation and German historians agree mention its work. In particular, we have the project In with that. Equally, a whole group of artists and others, Memoriam to ensure that our war memorials are safe including one Labour MP,wrote to The Guardian expressing and an education programme to ensure that the younger an opposite view. They believe that this is all about the generation understand the matter. I am sure that the worst kind of patriotic interpretation of the first world hon. Gentleman wants to comment on how important war. We have two different opinions. It is not up to the the younger generation is in all this. 3WH First World War Commemoration11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 4WH

Mr Keith Simpson: The trust does some very good the back of the old Liberal party; and finally the work indeed, and I will come back to it in a minute. Representation of the People Act 1918 saw for the first time the majority of women, although not all of them, We must take a sensitive and sophisticated approach getting the vote. to the issue. This is about not just the United Kingdom Government and Parliament here, but the devolved How does Parliament achieve this commemoration? I Parliament in Scotland, the devolved Assembly in Wales suspect that there will be exhibitions, and there will be and the devolved Parliament in Northern Ireland. online information. It is possible that the Speakers of both the Commons and the Lords will arrange a series We also have to take into account the Commonwealth, of lectures and talks. I suggest another idea, which remembering that in 1914 the British Government declared some of my colleagues might think is a little too modern, war on behalf of the empire, and that the participation even for me; it shows that I have a feminine side, of of the empire is also a sensitive subject. Some 1.6 million which the loss of my moustache is a further example. men from the Indian sub-continent served in the Indian The idea is that we could recreate some of the debates I army—mainly in the middle east, but also in Belgium have referred to through the Youth Parliament. Let the and France—and tens of thousands of them were killed Youth Parliament debate the issues that divided the and injured. The successor states, India, Pakistan and country during the first world war. Bangladesh, have ambivalent views about how to commemorate the first world war, not least because It is also conceivable that Parliament could publish a many of the soldiers returned to the Indian sub-continent book that would relate to the second element of Parliament and joined groups that wished to see the end of the Raj. and the first world war: the experiences, service and personal losses of Members of both Houses of Finally, there is the international element, which I Parliament—both MPs and peers—and of their staff. I have briefly touched on. What the Government must would like to think that we could bring that idea up to do, and I am sure the Minister will comment on this, is date by asking Members of both Houses and their staff integrate what we are doing with what our allies—the to provide information about what happened to their French, the Germans, the Turks, the Russians and direct ancestors and their families. many other countries—are doing. Lord Wallace of Saltaire, my hon. Friend, has already It is important to recognise that the commemoration started the process in the other House; some Members develops over six years and that we need to maintain the may have seen a piece that he wrote in The House momentum. Although the Government have laid down magazine about four months ago. He discovered some a number of points that we are going to commemorate, fascinating information about the current generation of such as the death of Nurse Edith Cavell, who was from peers and peeresses. There are not only direct descendants Norfolk where I was born and live, they also have to of Asquith, Haig and Lord Grenfell; there is also the consider the legacy. In other words, how do we want fact, of course, that the House of Lords represents this commemoration to be remembered, particularly immigrants. putting the emphasis on young people? I suggest that For example, Baroness Henig’s grandfather fought at we look at things such as education and the strengthening the battle of Tannenberg on the German side; Lord of communities. Dubs’s father was in the Austrian army; and Lord For me, the purpose of this short debate is to consider Tugendhat’s father was an Austrian officer on the Italian what role Parliament will play in this commemoration front. Several members of the Asian community had and to encourage my fellow parliamentarians to participate grandfathers who served in the Indian army during the in events and advise local communities about them. I first world war. fully recognise that many colleagues are already doing There were also people who never served in the that. armed forces, and we want to bear that in mind; it is not I suggest that the parliamentary element should have only the military side that matters. There were the two themes. The first is to look at the political and women who were nurses. Lord Prescott said that both constitutional role that Parliament played during the his grandfathers continued as miners during the war; war—in particular, the aspects that resonate today. effectively, they were in a reserve occupation. There is a After all, in 1914 the Liberal Government did not seek lot of interesting work that can be done in that area. Parliament’s permission and have a vote on the declaration Let us not forget the staff. Work has already been of war, which many colleagues will see as having a done by the archivists and those on the educational side resonance now. There is the whole business of the key of Parliament. As an example, I give two small pieces of debates that took place here in Parliament. There is also information. First, it will not surprise Members to the formation of the two coalitions: the coalition of know that the majority of Badge Messengers in 1914 May 1915, of the Liberals and the Conservatives; and were ex-military. The majority of them were either then the Lloyd George coalition of December 1916, recalled to the colours or—if they were elderly gentlemen— which had the Libs under Lloyd George and the nevertheless went back into uniform to train people. Conservatives, with some Labour support. Secondly, they were replaced as messengers in the House In addition, there are the elements of legislation that of Commons by girl guides. That would have been quite were crucial at the time and that still have a resonance a remarkable change for the 1914 generation. today. The licensing laws that we live with today were We should not forget the staff. One member of staff brought in at the beginning of the first world war to who volunteered was Frederick Silva. He was a waiter encourage munitions workers not to get tired and emotional in the House of Commons in the refreshment department. and cut production. The Defence of the Realm Acts He was in the 2nd Battalion, the Rifle Brigade, and was brought in massive constraints on civil liberties; the killed in action on 30 September 1917, probably during Military Service Acts—in other words, conscription—broke the third Ypres battle. 5WH First World War Commemoration11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 6WH

Finally, we perhaps want to consider what the impact role played by industry and farming. Tens of thousands of the first world war was on the generation in the of women volunteered for work in war industries inter-war and post-war periods; that possibly links in and on the land. The Women’s Land Army does not with the intervention made earlier by the hon. Member date from the second world war—that was when my for Newport West (Paul Flynn). Ramsay MacDonald mother had experience of it—but from the first world was vilified because he had not fought during the first war. There was social change, with tens of thousands world war, but the war experience of Attlee and Macmillan of young men being billeted in a local area—crime was deep in their souls and resonated in their attitudes and sex. to so many things, including social reform and rearmament. There was also politics under the coalition Government. My second theme for this debate, which I will touch What did it mean in a Member’s locality? How did a on briefly, is to encourage parliamentarians to participate Member’s predecessors—if they can be traced—respond in commemorative events and advise their local communities to the war, whether they were a Conservative, Labour, about them. Many colleagues are already doing that. Liberal or coalition Liberal? There is also the role of The Heritage Lottery Fund recently announced that conscientious objectors to consider. Were they badly £6 million of funding will be spread over six years, treated? Were they reflective of their society? The impact which can be allocated to people who bid either as of rationing on people must also be considered. Once individuals or as local communities for projects related again, we think of rationing as happening in the second to heritage. I know that these ideas have been taken up world war. by many parliamentarians. If people visit a few of our We must consider hospitals and auxiliary convalescent colleagues’ websites, they will see that they have flagged homes. There was no national health service; there was that money up. a limited number of hospitals. In Norfolk, more than 60 What more can be done? Colleagues can take an schools, private houses and village halls were turned active part in events and consider the specific experience into hospitals, with only local women, who had virtually of their own constituency, whether it is in a town, a city no experience of nursing, taking things on. That is one or a county. I will briefly give the example not so much of the unsung elements of the first world war that we of my own constituency of Broadland as of the work should commemorate. that is already being done throughout Norfolk. I have tried to put questions not only to local historians but to Those of us on the east coast suffered the experience the Eastern Daily Press, which is taking a great interest of both naval bombardments and air raids. The German and which I think will participate fully in events. I navy bombarded ports, such as Great Yarmouth, and a suggest that Members could relate those questions to number of towns in Norfolk had air raids. Again, we any city, county or constituency. assume that that happened in the second world war. My first question was, “What was Norfolk like in The Government have suggested that we name streets 1914?” It is a very good question for children to ask. Let after Victoria Cross heroes. It is possible that Harry us cut away all the myths of a golden summer and Daniels, of the Rifle Brigade, a company sergeant-major everything else—what was it like? What were the attitudes, during the war, who was born in Norfolk and won his as far as we can tell, of people at that time? We must VC, may be honoured eventually in his home town of remember that we are dealing with the first generation Dereham. Like a lot of working class soldiers in the of really literate people. first world war, he came from a broken family and was a product of the workhouse. We spend a lot of time Secondly, what was the impact of men volunteering concentrating on the middle class poets, but let us not or being conscripted to the armed forces? There were forget the tens of thousands of working men for whom massive variations. We think of the Kitchener volunteers, joining the Army was both a food ticket and a way out but they did not all rush away at first; in Norfolk, they of social deprivation. did not go until September or October 1914. Outside the cities, volunteers or conscripts were mainly rural Finally, there is the Armistice and the physical workers and they literally had to get the harvest in. We remembrance of the first world war. The hon. Member forget the conscripts. The majority of people serving in for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier) is the British armed forces by 1918—when we “won” the right about looking at war memorials, particularly the war—were, in fact, conscripts. people behind the names. A lot of schools are already doing this. Parliament can play an important role in We know that a lot of emphasis will be put on the terms of what it wants to remember about the first military experience of soldiers, including their experience world war. Many colleagues in both Houses have already of battle and of becoming casualties. However, Members started on this work. also need to think of the expanding military presence in their locality during world war one; there were training I should like to end with a stanza—a short poem— camps and physical defences of one kind or another. written by somebody who saw the worst and the best of We must also consider the experience of women and the first world war. We always assume that Rudyard children, including their loss of a father or a husband— Kipling was the poet of empire. He was an incredibly literally, for up to four years, and perhaps permanently. popular poet at the time and still is today. We think of Alternatively, many soldiers returned from the war limbless him glorifying the old British empire and the Raj, but or suffering from post-traumatic stress, as we would call we have to remember, of course, that his only son was it now. killed in 1915 and he was overwhelmed by guilt. We must also consider the impact of refugees and Kipling encouraged his son to join up. When the boy prisoners of war. Norfolk had tens of thousands of failed because he had bad eyesight, Kipling had a quiet Belgian refugees. Also, a lot of German PoWs were word to make certain that he was commissioned. He working on the land, which is something we always never got over that. Kipling played an important role in associate with the second world war. There is also the the remembrance of the Commonwealth War Graves 7WH First World War Commemoration11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 8WH

[Mr Keith Simpson] stories that he and his brothers told me about the war were that they did not have strawberry jam, but they Commission, but he wrote a bitter stanza that has a had alcohol and cigarettes in abundance. He died of particular resonance for all of us as politicians. Some lung cancer at 43, because he was hopelessly addicted to hon. Members will know it. “A Dead Statesman”: tobacco. Others were addicted to alcohol, because of “I could not dig; I dared not rob: the way that alcohol was cynically used, an element that Therefore I lied to please the mob. the hon. Member for Broadland did not recall. Now all my lies are proved untrue We have to look at that war, which resulted in 16 million And I must face the men I slew. dead, with 900,000 British dead. Anyone who believes What tale shall serve me here among that is a matter for celebration is deeply wrong. The Mine angry and defrauded young?” hon. Gentleman quoted Kipling, a great advocate for glory: 9.52 am “I lied to please the mob.” Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): This is the first Others lied to please the mob. The lesson that we should time that I have spoken under your chairmanship, take from the first world war, which led to the second Mrs Riordan, and I am sure that it will be a great world war, inevitably, because of what happened at pleasure to do so. Versailles, is, how do we understand war in our own age, these days? It is a delight to be here and to hear the authoritative words of the hon. Member for Broadland (Mr Simpson), There is a debate on Thursday on the Iraq war. It will who secured this debate. I am slightly alarmed that he be fascinating to recall the decisions made in this place has shaved off his moustache. The feminisation of in 2003, when because of the wishes of one man, we politics has given us many great benefits, but Mrs Thatcher did not pull out of that war, as the Prime Minister never appointed anyone with facial hair. There is great was invited to, but went ahead on the basis of a danger if we start to shave off our facial hair: what male misunderstanding, or possibly a lie. The consequence appendages might be under threat next? for this country was 179 dead. That is a hell of a price to pay for one man’s vanity. If we wish to commemorate The first world war is not an occasion to celebrate. I the true lessons of that war, I suggest we do something pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for soothing out that is now forbidden in this House and read out the some of the jingoistic overtones in the original speech names of the current war dead from Iraq and Afghanistan. that suggested that we might celebrate the end of that I have done it twice and it is now forbidden. We are not war. I have a different tale to tell, but it is relevant and allowed—it is out of order—to read the names of the true, about a young man who volunteered at the age of war dead. We could not possibly do it for those who 15. He was full of optimism and a great patriot, and died in the first world war, who died in their hundreds went to war believing that it was going to lead to of thousands, like cattle, but we can at least honour dignity, glory and honour. It did not; it led to disease, those who have recently died because of our decisions, degradation, bitterness and early death at the age of 43. taken in this House, on Iraq and Helmand, which have That young man was a machine gunner. The belief resulted in many other deaths. on both sides was that machine gunners were never The great lesson of the first world war was its abject taken prisoner, because they were responsible for killing futility and the way it led to unnecessary suffering and hundreds and possibly thousands of people. He found death, without solving any of the problems that existed himself in a machine gun nest—a foxhole—gravely at the time. I am grateful that there has been a change in injured, and the others were dead. That was in April the Government’s attitude and that they are talking 1918, when the Germans broke through on the Messines about commemorating the war’s full horrors. That must ridge. His life was saved. He heard a German patrol be our emphasis and our message to young people. We coming to him and took out his rosary beads to pray, could go back not only to Kipling, but to the other waiting for the bullet to blow out his brains. He could poets who said that we must not repeat not get out of the hole, where he was identified as a machine gunner because the machine gun was lying “The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est across his body. However, he was not shot. The German Pro patria mori.” officer, and two others, carried him across no man’s land and his life was saved. He was ever grateful to the 10 am Germans for the rest of his life. Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): Let me make two He went there to serve the cause of his country that quick comments before I come to what I wanted to say. he loved and to kill the Hun, who were slaughtering First, we all owe my hon. Friend the Member for Belgian babies. Other small nations had a different Broadland (Mr Simpson) a debt for initiating the debate. army experience at the time. He returned to civilian life As he knows, my first grown-up job in politics was as and found that he was on a pension. He could not do research assistant to Maurice Macmillan, which meant what he called a man’s job ever again. In the mid-1930s, I was privileged to spend quite a lot of time at Birch his pitiful pension was reduced by an ungrateful Grove. In my conversations with Harold Macmillan, Government, who changed the reason for his pension there was absolutely no doubt that his approach, and from saying that his ill health was attributed to his war that of other political leaders of the time, to Europe, the wound to saying that it was aggravated by it, although Common Market and European politics was in large he went in as a perfectly fit 15-year-old. part based on their experience of having gone through The man was my father. Bitterness against war is two European wars. For people such as Harold Macmillan, justified in many of his generation. He was not killed by it was not just the fact that they had gone through two his wounds, but by his war experience. Two of the European wars, but guilt about the fact that they had 9WH First World War Commemoration11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 10WH actually survived—Harold Macmillan was almost the In my constituency, in the village of Deddington, only person from his Grenadier Guards officer cadet Michael Allbrook and Robert Forsyth have written a group to survive the great war. history of the parish at war. When war memorials were To pick up the point made by the hon. Member for erected in the early 1920s, it was sufficient for the Newport West (Paul Flynn), I think we all have family inscription to include simply a name and an initial, stories about the great war. I had an uncle—Uncle because everybody knew the person. Men of Deddington Bob—who was gassed in the first world war and who died in Belgium, Canada, England, France, Germany, won the military medal, but I cannot remember him Greece, India, Iraq, Israel, Italy, Malaysia, Sicily, Syria ever uttering a whole sentence, because for the rest of and Turkey, where their graves and official memorials his life he lived with the fact that he had been gassed. can be found, but their histories are at risk of being lost. The book written by the people of Deddington is a The point I really want to make follows from that reminder of the lives of those men and of the people made by the hon. Member for Hackney South and they were. Shoreditch (Meg Hillier), and requires me to put on my hat as Second Church Estates Commissioner. As a The Heritage Lottery Fund is giving £1 million a year result of the first world war, there was a need to demonstrate over six years until 2019 to help communities mark the the huge and understandable grief over the loss of the centenary of the first world war. I hope people will look husbands, fathers, sons, brothers and friends who made to the war memorials and to the names on them, as well up the never-ending casualty list from the front line. as, in some instances, as the hon. Lady said, to those There are, therefore, now roughly 36,000 memorials to that are not on them, as a starting point for exploring the dead of the great war, reflecting that unprecedented the history and commemorating the lives of people expression of public grief. Not surprisingly, many of from their communities who took part in the great war. those memorials are in churches or within the curtilage When I enlisted in the Sussex Yeomanry in 1970, it of church buildings. had a dinner at the Royal Pavilion in Brighton every I hope two things will happen between 2014 and year before Remembrance day. In 1970, there were still 2018. First, I hope every community—every parish, two tables of 1914-18 veterans. When I, as a young every town and every village—will look to refurbish or man, asked them what made them leave their farms in restore its war memorials. The recording of names—often Sussex—most had never left their farms before going to simply in alphabetical order, giving no priority in death, war—they simply said, “We went to defend our farms.” because all are equal in death—is an important memorial, Edward Thomas was asked why he went to war, and he and now is the time to ensure that our war memorials picked up a sod of English earth and said, “I went to are repaired and restored. Some memorials relate to fight for this.” Every one of the people on a war streets or areas, such as those for the Hull pals and the memorial has a story: they were a person; they had a Accrington pals. Others relate to factories, and one will life. I hope that, in commemorating the first world war also find memorials at railway stations. Charles Sargeant over the next four years, we will take the opportunity to Jagger, the uncle of Mick Jagger, designed the great recall and commemorate the individual lives of every memorial in Paddington station, as well as the gunners one of those who fell. memorial at Hyde park corner. Several hon. Members rose— The other thing I hope will happen, which my hon. Friend the Member for Broadland alluded to, is that Mrs Linda Riordan (in the Chair): Order. At the every community will have an opportunity to research moment, I do not intend to impose a time limit. If the names and histories of those who died. Members can be disciplined in their speeches, I will be able to call all those who want to speak. I will then call Meg Hillier: Another interesting issue is that a lot of the Front Benchers at 10.40 am. If time starts running names are missing, because the names were haphazardly short, however, I will impose a time limit, with the kind collected. The War Memorials Trust does not necessarily permission of Mr Speaker. fund work on this, but it depends on the circumstances; we have seen some great examples of names being added. I am sure the hon. Gentleman would be interested 10.9 am in work being done in education so that local children Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): It is a pleasure to could seek out some of the names that should have been speak on this issue. I congratulate the hon. Member for added, but which were missed off. Broadland (Mr Simpson) on bringing it before us for consideration and on the passionate and balanced way Sir Tony Baldry: That is a good point. One is already he presented his case. seeing work on that. Clive Aslet produced a very good We in Northern Ireland have a close link with our book called “War Memorial”, which is the story of the serving personnel. We have a strong history of service, sacrifice of one village, Lydford, from 1914 to 2003. particularly in my constituency. In Northern Ireland, There are 23 names on the war memorial, and he goes there was no need for conscription, because my forefathers through the histories of all of them in the book. In the and all those who joined up were volunteers. Those who preface, he says: served chose to do so, and they were proud to do so. We “What I would really like to do for the Centenary of the First remain proud of the part they played. World War in 2014 is to set up a project for each village to find out Some people might question the relevance of continuing about its own dead. There is so much you could do and it would be a fantastic national and local resource. This book threw up celebrations when there are no veterans of the First such a richness of material and it really got me up every morning World War left, but we learned a great lesson from that because I became so utterly absorbed by the story of these war, and it is a lesson that we must never forget. We people’s lives.” must ensure that we teach our children our history and 11WH First World War Commemoration11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 12WH

[Jim Shannon] Those who gave their lives on 1 July at the Somme were volunteers on behalf of the empire, and that is something instil in them an understanding of what makes them we must commemorate. who they are and a pride that they, and we, are British. Just on the edge of my constituency we have the We in Northern Ireland all intend to be involved—at Somme centre, which was built specifically to recall the least the Unionist MPs, and we will try to persuade sacrifices of the first world war and to commemorate some of the other MPs—in introducing into primary the fact that—the Minister will be aware of this—the schools an educational pack, which will provide some people from the 36th Ulster Division trained within a of the facts about the first world war and try to create in mile of the centre before they went to the Somme. The children’s minds the importance of the occasion. Through Thiepval tower is important, and the Somme centre that, we also hope to build upon community relations. plays an important role for us. It re-creates the trenches and has many historical artefacts. People can today live One of the great things that has come out through the sound, the noise, the horror, the courage and the our peace process has been the recognition of service sacrifice that took place, through what they have at the from both sides of the community, and service from the centre. I believe that it commemorates those things in a Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. One thing great way. we wish to do, and will try to do within the commemorations, is to have a twinning type of arrangement That service to crown and country strongly lives between communities in Northern Ireland and communities on, and that is the point on which I want to end. Today, in the Republic of Ireland. Importantly, that will also 100 years on, the sacrifice of the first world war is still build relations. important, for us as parliamentarians and for our soldiers who are out in the field. Every one of us knows soldiers I want quickly to mention the Bowtown community who have given their lives. In my constituency, I am group association in my constituency, which, alongside always minded of Channing Day, who died in Afghanistan other groups in the area, has been actively involved in last year. Badges were sold in her name for Combat promoting the importance of the first world war. There Stress—they sold out very quickly, and the next batch is are things that we can do as MPs—as elected now on sale. representatives—with schools and communities, north We take pride in doing the right thing, and the right and south together in the island of Ireland. That is thing is to remember and honour those who fought in something we will try to build on. the war. The young men who had no idea what they When I think of the first world war, my thoughts were marching into, the young women who picked up automatically turn to the Somme, and in my constituency the slack at home and worked the fields and factories, office opposite our flag is a beautiful framed picture of the families who mourned and the new Great Britain the Somme, which I think we are proud to see every day. that arose after the war, are all reasons to commemorate As mayor of Ards borough in a previous life—21 years the first world war in a right and proper way. ago—I had occasion to go to the Somme and visit the As we now look to a century since the war began, it is battlefields, and I highly commend such a visit because the right time to ensure that we commemorate in such a it gives a real flavour of what happened in the first fashion that honours our fallen and inspires our children world war and the sacrifice that there was. Many of the to realise how hard won the fight for freedom truly was. gravestones there were of people who were 16. Many of We can never afford to be complacent. I wholeheartedly the Ulstermen who joined told lies about their age, believe that parliamentarians and Parliament as a whole saying that they were 18 or 19 when they were 15 or should be taking the lead in the commemorations. We 16—some were even 14. Perhaps there was not as tight a have a lot to do over the next few years, and we look control as there should have been on birth certificates at forward to the process. the time. Those people also sacrificed themselves, and we should always be mindful of that. 10.16 am We are perhaps proudest of our fight at the Somme, during which the bravery and courage of the Ulstermen Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): has become the stuff of legends. Of nine Victoria Crosses It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, given to British forces in that battle, four were awarded Mrs Riordan. I will try to be brief. I congratulate my to the 36th Ulster Division. Captain Wilfred Spender of hon. Friend the Member for Broadland (Mr Simpson) the division’s HQ staff after the battle of the Somme on his wide-ranging, informative and certainly thought- was quoted in the press as saying: provoking contribution. I was attracted to participating in the debate because it refers specifically to how Parliament “I am not an Ulsterman but yesterday, the 1st. July, as I followed their amazing attack, I felt that I would rather be an commemorates world war one. Ulsterman than anything else in the world”. When I sit in the main Commons Chamber, I always The final sentences of Captain Wilfred Spender’s account listen with razor-like attention to my colleagues’ eloquent furthered his viewpoint, one that was politically correct and devastating rhetoric and argument. Rarely does my at that time for Unionists: attention wander, but if my eyes occasionally stray upwards—I hope they do not do so often—they spot “The Ulster Division has lost more than half the men who the crests that surround the Chamber. I wonder how attacked and, in doing so, has sacrificed itself for the Empire often we notice that they are there, and how often we which has treated them none too well. The much derided Ulster think about what they represent, or, more importantly, Volunteer Force has won a name which equals any in history. Their devotion, which no doubt has helped the advance elsewhere, about the stories of the people that lie behind them. deserved the gratitude of the British Empire. It is due to the When I am rushing to a Committee meeting or a dining memory of these brave fellows that their beloved Province shall room and I scurry through the Lower Waiting Hall, I be fairly treated.” do not tend to stop by the book of remembrance, which 13WH First World War Commemoration11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 14WH is often concealed by a policeman. Therein alone is Westfield war memorial village in Lancaster was treasure trove of stories. How often, as I dash off to constructed for disabled soldiers with funds raised from Millbank through Members’ Entrance, do my eyes look private money. If Members look at the official books up to the war memorial there, and the names on it? on Westfield war memorial village, which still houses As Members of the House, it is vital that part of our 189 residents, they might be amused to learn that, commemoration is of Members themselves and, indeed, apparently, despite the money having been raised, the of staff, who lost their lives. What links this debate with building of the village, shops and workplaces for disabled the Minister’s previous focus is last year’s Olympics. I ex-soldiers was hindered by the Government, the Ministry recall some excellent exhibitions in the House on the of Labour and the trade unions. The village is still connection between the House and the Olympics, on shining with people still living there. There are similar great Olympians who were also Members of the House. things in every constituency. A book was even published, which detailed their lives Like my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool and their contributions. I sincerely hope that Parliament North and Cleveleys, when I watched the Iraq war—I comes up with something similar, to allow us an insight was not then a Member of this place—I used to scream into the lives of Members and staff who lost their lives. at the television, “Will these people please read some My hon. Friend the Member for Broadland gave the history?” or “Has anyone picked up the books and example of the waiter in the restaurant. actually looked at the background?”Obviously, a standard My second observation draws partly on what the comment is that people do not learn from history, but hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) said they could at least be informed about it. about the legacy of world war one. It is all too easy to My hon. Friend mentioned Syria, and I would also think that the legacy issue ended in 1939, but I argue pinpoint Bosnia, where the whole shebang happened; it that every time we stand up and discuss Syria in the is where the archduke was assassinated. When people House we are doing so as a consequence of the 1916 stand on that spot in Sarajevo, they think, “What has Sykes-Picot agreement, which demarcated the middle changed in Bosnia since then?” Four years ago, I met east and created an explosive cocktail that rumbles on the grand mufti, the senior Muslim cleric, and his first to this day. I believe that the legacy is in the here and words in the big mosque in Sarajevo were, “This mosque now, and I suspect that it has affected many of the great is the Emperor mosque. It was rebuilt by Emperor decisions that have been made in this Parliament down Franz Joseph, and the last time this country was run the years, including on pioneering social legislation, properly and efficiently was by the Habsburgs.” I have and the attitudes towards appeasement and what occurred some sympathy with that. There are national and European in the lead-up to world war two. lessons that we may need to address during this long Possibly the most important thing we can do in centenary. Parliament to commemorate world war one is not just My other point, again to follow the challenge of my to base the contributions we stand up to make in the hon. Friend the Member for Broadland, is on the Chamber on the here and now, on what we have read in diversity of the troops who went to war. In the words of today’s or yesterday’s newspapers—the fish and chip Baroness Warsi: wrappers of tomorrow; we should also be open to the “Our boys weren’t just Tommies—they were Tariqs and Tajinders”. long perspectives, and at each moment of our lives be When people go to the war graves, as I did a few months open to thinking about what brought us here and the ago, they see the numbers; 140,000 troops from the wider issues we are debating. If we do that, our Indian empire fought on the western front. When people contributions might be more meaningful than they all see the Sikh memorials, the Jewish and Christian graves too often are and my attention might not stray to the and the Muslim graves facing Mecca, they have respect many crests that surround the Chamber and could for the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, which instead be focused more intently on what other Members is still reburying people. That is just amazing. Only a are saying. few months ago, I saw in the village of Hollebeke the graves of six Chinese people who died as part of the 10.20 am Chinese Labour Corps; a huge wreath had been laid by the Chinese Government. Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con): The centenary we are commemorating has many It is great to follow my colleague and friend from national and international levels. In our own country, Lancashire, my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool given the diversity and the challenges that it is creating North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard). at the moment, we have to bring in every part of I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Broadland Britain’s new communities because they were involved (Mr Simpson) on introducing the debate. Like him, in the first world war; 1.2 million people from the I declare an interest. I was a teacher of history for Indian empire fought across Africa, the western front 37 years, but I reassure hon. Members that I could not and the middle east. find my teaching notes last night, so they are saved from I found a quote from a Muslim soldier when I was that. I will address some of the challenges that have looking at some letters out there—I do not know how been laid out today. one reads it in one sense. He was writing back to his The legacy of the first world war is not only war family in the then undivided India, and he put in the memorials, although they are important. In the Fleetwood letter: part of my constituency, we have a memorial park that “What better occasion than this to show the loyalty of my was built following the war. The friends of the memorial family to the British Government?” park, and their chairman Les Fletcher, have bid for a What a lesson that is to us today, given what we face. grant to get the whole park, including its gates, restored, Many Members of Parliament for constituencies that which may be an opportunity. perhaps lack the diversity of our major cities can still 15WH First World War Commemoration11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 16WH

[Eric Ollerenshaw] stationed next to Shorncliffe barracks just outside Folkestone, which was home to tens of thousands of ensure that when we are in schools to talk about the first Canadian servicemen. The graves of members of the world war and when we are at the memorials, people Chinese Labour Corps who died in the first world war know that a vast range of soldiers and workers from can also be found there. Folkestone, similar to Norfolk, across the old British empire supported this country was also home to tens of thousands of Belgian émigrés and saw us through to the end. That is a lesson that we who came to Britain to escape the advancing German need to be punching out there, and it is a lesson for all army in the early days of the war in the summer of of us today. It still rides strongly and gives us a purpose 1914, so it has an international significance, too. as Members of Parliament. For me, the important thing about Folkestone is that it touches the experiences of probably almost every 10.25 am fighting family in the country. At some point, their ancestor was in Folkestone during the war, and it is a Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): It is a site that can mean something to people across the pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Riordan, country as they consider the centenary of the first world and it is a pleasure to follow the fascinating contributions war. of the Members who have spoken in this debate. I particularly congratulate my hon. Friend the Member The House of Commons must consider an appropriate for Broadland (Mr Simpson) on securing this debate way to recognise the sacrifices of families across the and on his fascinating introduction. country during the war. We must consider where we can We are surrounded by the first world war in the create places in the United Kingdom for them to go to Palace of Westminster, in every community in the country try to gain some insight on the life and experience of and in Whitehall, which is dominated by the Cenotaph. their ancestors. That is why there is still an incredible, People cannot escape from the first world war, and in enduring interest in the first world war battlefields in remembering it as we draw closer to the centenary of its western Europe. The tour operators say that more people outbreak we must remember, as many hon. Members make the journeys now than for decades. On any night have pointed out in this debate, the incredible change it at the Menin gate at Ypres, one can see large numbers of brought to the lives of almost everyone in the country. people gathering to stand and hear the “Last Post” We must remember that the first world war touched played. Schoolchildren still make battlefield tours of their lives, and the political consequences of that war the great cemeteries, such as Tyne Cot and the memorial affect our lives today, too. We must remember that it at Thiepval, to understand what went on. was of a scale unimaginable to people before the war. We should create more opportunities within this country We must remember the stories that came from the war for people to visit similar sites with broad significance. in the history books, the poems and the diaries, which In Folkestone, we have embraced that idea by creating a tell a story of a conflict that cannot be recognised in memorial walk tracing the last steps of the men as they terms of warfare today. The lives and experiences of the marched from the town down to the harbour where the people who went through it are almost impossible for boats waited to take them to France, and we are raising people in a contemporary setting to imagine. money to create a new memorial arch to stand over that Philip Sassoon, who was Member of Parliament for route, or close to the site where a memorial arch was put Hythe during the first world war, visited the site of the up between the wars to mark the silver jubilee of King battle of Waterloo in 1920. His recollection was that it George V and the coronation of King George VI. It was “Lilliputian” compared with the western front and bore the simple message “In our rejoicing, we still that the battle of Waterloo, great and defining as it was, remember them.”The road down which the men marched had more in common with the battles of ancient Greece was rededicated after the war as the road of remembrance. than it had with Neuve-Chapelle or the battle of the As other hon. Members have mentioned, there are Somme. The first world war was something totally new physical war memorials listing the names of men who and of an incredible order. fought, but there are also other memorials that recognise the symbolism of and people’s emotional attachment The first world war affected fighting men from across to significant sites in this country during the first world the world who came to Britain to fight on behalf of the war. empire as British subjects under the King. We must, therefore, consider not only what the significant sites of In Folkestone, as my hon. Friend the Member for the first world war meant to the whole country, but to Broadland mentioned, we also have air raid sites. The the broader fighting community across the world. My first major air raid on the civilian population carried interest has been drawn specifically to the Step Short out by German aircraft in this country was at Folkestone project in Folkestone, of which I have been chairman in 1917, on Tontine street. It killed 71 people out of a for the past six years and which commemorates the role clear blue sky. There were no air raid sirens and no the town played during the fist world war. warnings; it was not something that anyone expected. Many people lived through it, and many have family As my hon. Friend the Member for Broadland members who were victims of that attack. The site in mentioned, it was not tens of thousands of men who Tontine street means something to them. came through Folkestone during the first world war but tens of millions. Nearly 10 million men came through We can help create memorials, and we can support Folkestone, which was the main port of embarkation to events as Members of the House of Commons. Folkestone the western front not just for British soldiers but for seeks to do so by creating a new memorial arch and a soldiers from across the world who came to serve. That memorial march commemorating the journey to war on can be seen marked in the graves at Shorncliffe military the anniversary of the start of the war next August. On cemetery, which is one of the Commonwealth war graves, 4 August 2014, a series of centenaries will start that will 17WH First World War Commemoration11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 18WH run through the period of the first world war, touching out of the gates of Armoury house in the City of the anniversaries of the major conflicts and battles and London because they were told to do so by their officers, building up to the centenary of the armistice. who were told to do so by the Government. They did so The major museums are doing a great deal of work to for King and country. They did not set off from Armoury support the first world war centenary, particularly the house saying, “I wonder whether this war is right, Imperial War museum, which is creating online resources wrong or indifferent”; they set off because they were that anyone in the country can use to pass on the stories acting under orders. of people in their community. I also thank the National The same applies, incidentally, to those people who Army museum, which has agreed to bring part of its have stood on the high street of Royal Wootton Bassett first world war collection out of London to Folkestone in my constituency on 427 separate occasions during for 10 months in 2014-15 while its galleries are being the last few years to pay tribute to the dead bodies refurbished, and to create an exhibition with the people returning from Afghanistan and Iraq. The people of of Folkestone to tell part of the story of the town Wootton Bassett were not saying that they approved or during the war, as well as the story of men as they made disapproved of the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan; they the journey to war. had no views on those wars. They took the view that I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Broadland this was not the occasion to enter into the politics of it. for securing this debate. It is the third debate on the first They knew that it was right to pay their respects to the world war centenary in which I have participated during soldiers who had given their lives in those wars. the past couple of years; I am sure that there will be many more opportunities to discuss it as we get closer Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): Will the hon. to that time. It will be an important series of anniversaries Gentleman give way? and commemorations, starting on 4 August next year, and will mean a great deal to people across the country. Mr Gray: I am terribly sorry, but I am afraid that I am rather short of time. Mine is such a brain that once 10.33 am I am in my stride I do not want to lose track—oh, of Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): I did not course, go on. originally intend to take part in this debate. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Broadland Martin Horwood: I am grateful. I understand what (Mr Simpson), who had the initiative to secure it and the hon. Gentleman is saying, although he might find who introduced it with his customary gravitas and with that modern historians are a little kinder to the allied information that he doubtless learned during his time at leadership in the run-up to the war than he suggested. Sandhurst and elsewhere. This has been an absolutely As well as the horror and the courage that will be fascinating debate. I have been prompted to take part in recognised during the national commemoration of the it because I have distinguished two themes that I think first world war and its outbreak, it is right that Parliament will be reflected in discussions of the first world war addresses the complexities of the politics both inside across the nation. Parliament and inside Government. It was a first and, The first was ably outlined by the hon. Member for for the Liberal party, a traumatic experience of coalition Newport West (Paul Flynn), to whom I pay tribute. He politics. has made clear his opposition to war and his hatred of it on so many occasions over many years in this place, Mr Gray: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but I and he has done so extremely convincingly and with suspect that I absolutely disagree with him. There have great passion. I might surprise him by saying that I been wars for the past 1,000 years, going back to the agree with him absolutely. All war is hell. There is no battle of Sherston in my constituency in 917, when question about it. All war is a disgrace, and it should King Athelstan fought off King Canute. Is it right that not occur. How human beings ever thought it up in the we in Parliament should consider whether Athelstan first place is hard to imagine. Whether we are talking was right or wrong to fight that battle with Canute in about people killed in warfare, those who are injured or 917? Of course not. Equally, we should not reinvent the maimed or those with mental illness as a result, it is an causes of the first world war. That is not a matter for us; absolute blot on humanity that such things occur. I it is a matter for historians. We in Parliament must look entirely endorse his hatred of it. to the present and the future. Reinventing the thought Equally, I agree with the hon. Member for Newport behind the first world war is not our job at all. West that most wars occur for all the wrong reasons. We First, again, I agree strongly with the hon. Member in this place and our ancestors for over 1,000 years have for Newport West that all wars are bad. Of course there got all wars wrong. Even recent wars, without entering are lessons to be learned; we are considering whether to into recent politics, have occurred for all the wrong sell arms to Syria. We should remember that all wars reasons. They have been ill thought through. As was are bad. Secondly, we should also remember that all said about the first world war, lions have been led by wars are badly thought out; that applies today as before. donkeys. Thirdly, the purpose of today’s debate, leaving aside all Although we should not renege on or stray from that the politics and history, is that it is right that we in this clear theme, it is entirely separate from the one that we place should say to the people to whom we give instructions, have been discussing here, which is how we commemorate “You are doing the right thing. We respect and honour those who gave their lives and so much else for their what you do, and we honour the fact that you have nation. The motto of my own regiment, the Honourable given your lives, livelihoods and very often your health Artillery Company, is “Arma pacis fulcra”, or “Arms or your mental welfare under order from us. It is right are the balance of peace”. Those young boys marched that we should pay you respect for doing so.” 19WH First World War Commemoration11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 20WH

[Mr Gray] In Parliament, however, it is important that we remember the first world war for more than the industrialisation I enjoy the occasions when, twice a year, each brigade of death that followed in its wake. The role of Government returning from Afghanistan enters Carriage Gates and and of Parliament therefore is to ensure that the we as a Parliament pay our respects to those soldiers. commemoration of the centenary is respectful, thoughtful We are not involving them in politics or asking them to and reflective, without of course in any way glorifying endorse our views on Afghanistan; we are thanking the nature of the war and the appalling human sacrifice them for all that they have done in Afghanistan as that took place. This is a commemoration, not a celebration. soldiers under our orders. That is what we must do with regard to the first world war. Those boys, and a few The first world war was a hugely significant moment girls, gave their lives, their livelihoods and their health. in history, important for Britain economically, politically We must thank, respect and honour them for what they and socially. It was a cause, directly or indirectly, of all did for us. the major events of the 20th century. At home, the first world war changed much for Britain, and our reliance on Commonwealth countries for soldiers as well as 10.38 am materials led to a desire for greater independence by nations who no longer wished to be subordinate to the Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab): It is a great empire. The war also changed the terms of the relationship pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Riordan. between England and the other constituent parts of the I congratulate the hon. Member for Broadland United Kingdom. (Mr Simpson) on securing this important debate, and I thank him for the work that he does as a member of the Britain was changed politically and socially for ever. world war one centenary advisory board. I do not think Politically, the end of the war triggered a flight to that I had the benefit of his teaching when I was at extremes. Socially, the war gave rise to the lost generation; Sandhurst, although I could be wrong. I agree that so many men of marriageable age died that 50% of Parliament can play an important role and that as women remained single in 1931, and 35% of them did parliamentarians, we all have an important role to play not marry while of childbearing age. The conscription in encouraging and supporting activities in our of so many men during the war, however, led to an constituencies. I know from my constituency that there opportunity for women in the workplace, and the is huge interest in the commemoration. importance of that change cannot be underestimated. There have been a number of thoughtful contributions The other great social change to come from the first to the debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Newport world war was of course suffrage. Before the war, neither West (Paul Flynn) and the hon. Members for Lancaster working men nor women had a vote. The sacrifice and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw), for Banbury (Sir Tony of men of all classes, combined with the movement of Baldry), for Strangford (Jim Shannon), for Blackpool women into the working world and the campaigns North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), for Folkestone of the suffragists and suffragettes, compelled politicians and Hythe (Damian Collins) and for North Wiltshire to change that situation. We should also reflect on that (Mr Gray) have all spoken with passion and authority. in this place. They spoke with different emphases, but they all agreed The importance of the first world war cannot be that it is important for Parliament to play a leading role counted simply in terms of battlefield casualties or in the commemoration. The numbers present to support military innovation. There is no doubt about that. the debate are a welcome sight, and confirm my belief From its influence and its timing, it is the single most that the issue brings us together and is one on which we significant event of the 20th century. As such, it is should be united. something we must remember, we must commemorate, I pay tribute to the Under-Secretary of State for we must learn from and we must educate our children Defence, the hon. Member for South West Wiltshire about. The centenary is an excellent opportunity to (Dr Murrison), in his role as the Prime Minister’s teach younger people about the first world war in a special representative, for his dedication to the task of direct and age-appropriate way and to initiate informed assuring an appropriate commemoration. I hope that discussion about our country and our history. I very he will not mind me saying—something that always much agree with the suggestion of the hon. Member for comes with a degree of qualification—that, for this Broadland that we should invite the Youth Parliament work, he is a round peg in a round hole. He and the to come to this place and debate those important issues. Minister present in the Chamber know, I am sure, that the Opposition will work closely with the Government As other Members have noted, the Imperial war on the commemoration. We are united in the view that museum will play a pivotal role in the commemoration it is important and that it must be done in the right way. and will be opening groundbreaking new galleries at its In order to inform the work that we do in this place, it London site, as well as at its Manchester site. Those is worth reflecting that most people appreciate the scale efforts will reach a wider audience than ever before and of the loss of life in the first world war, although it is create a legacy for future generations that will hopefully still difficult to comprehend. They know something of revitalise the way we teach the history of the first world the 750,000 British soldiers who died, or the 1.5 million war. In addition to the £9 million already donated, the who returned home injured, and they might have heard Heritage Lottery Fund will give £6 million to projects of the 20,000 British soldiers killed on the first day of marking the centenary. It provides funds to help local the Somme or recall Wilfred Owen’s imagery of choking areas and communities explore their history and heritage soldiers drowning in a sea of chlorine gas. Sacrifice on and to understand the war’s impact on their communities. such a scale must always be remembered. It must be The lottery money will be crucial to helping local commemorated. communities in their important commemoration events. 21WH First World War Commemoration11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 22WH

Many other organisations will be involved, from the important national moment of remembrance and of Royal British Legion to the Woodland Trust and many nationhood. If that is true for Australia, it is true for more besides. many other places around the world. There is huge interest around the country in ensuring Ensuring that such work is properly co-ordinated that in every hamlet, village, town and city—in every and dealt with appropriately is key to the success corner—we make the most of this national and of commemoration. The body that my hon. Friend international period of commemoration. Members is associated with, the Commonwealth War Graves throughout the House will take an active part in activities Commission, is central to delivery. My hon. Friend is in their constituencies, but above all we must take the also right to talk about the effect on the House. The opportunity to remember, because only through idea of some form of book is excellent, and I hope that remembering and through keeping the first world war he will pursue it with Mr Speaker. in the national consciousness will we truly understand I think back to my hon. Friend’s excellent history of its impact on British society and, in so doing, understand General Percival and the fall of Singapore. It brilliantly what it means to be British. Parliament will seek to play brought out the human element of that entire tragedy; an appropriate role, in conjunction with many others, to something like that, which draws together the experiences ensure that the centenary of the first world war is of parliamentarians and Members of the House and commemorated in a way that is thoughtful, respectful which we could all read and learn from, would be a and befitting of such an important event in our history. fantastic contribution. He is absolutely right to encourage parliamentarians to become involved and to lead this event. I could not agree more with everything he said and I thank him for his contribution. 10.46 am The hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media told the powerful story of his father and his post-war and Sport (Hugh Robertson): Thank you for chairing fate. The story is tragic and there is no other answer. I the debate, Mrs Riordan. In responding, rather than assure the hon. Gentleman that the Government’s approach reading through my prepared speech, I will try to pick is not to celebrate the war, but to enable a great act of up on the various contributions made by hon. Members, remembrance. No Government of any colour in this commenting on them as appropriate. country hand down an authorised version of history. We should put the facts before people to educate them The best place to start is by thanking my hon. Friend and then allow them to remember the event in a way the Member for Broadland (Mr Simpson), not only for that is fit for them. The hon. Gentleman will have a his typically erudite and thoughtful contribution this contribution to make to that like everyone else. morning, but for all the work he has already done in and around the commemoration as a member of My hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Sir Tony the advisory group and as a commissioner of the Baldry) spoke about war memorials and his work as the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Second Church Estates Commissioner. The issue of war memorials has worried me for many years. In my county, I also give my hon. Friend a probably long-overdue they were put up next to what were then quite small thank you for all the hours of his life he spent trying to roads, but have now turned into major A roads. Memorials educate me when I was in my 20s; he was kind to say it have suffered natural degradation from heavy lorries was 20 years ago, but in all honesty I fear it was 20 years passing them on the way to Folkestone and other ports plus VAT. As I have got older, I have begun to feel of embarkation, and in some places people may want to increasingly that if there were a period in my life that I move them to a place that is more appropriate for acts could revisit, it would be then, because understanding of remembrance. I think that will be a key part of the the lessons of history allows us to make much better commemorations. judgments about the present. I wish that I had sat in my hon. Friend’s lectures less exhausted by the various I very much enjoyed my hon. Friend’s story about the other activities that marked the day at Sandhurst, and Sussex Yeomanry. Perhaps I may tell him gently, having better able to listen to the many words of wisdom that joined the armed forces 10 years after him, that one of he offered then, as he has this morning. the great events of the year was always the second world war reunion at Combermere barracks. A young officer My hon. Friend is absolutely right to talk about the could sit at the feet of people who had taken bridges role of the National Archives. The process of discovery during the second world war by stripping doors off that can be facilitated by it for individuals, families and houses and laying them across the fabric of the bridges communities will be a key part of the period of to get armoured cars across them to secure the other remembrance. He could not be more right about the side. Understanding such stories is key. role of our allies in other Commonwealth countries. To The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is be honest, that had not really dawned on me until a visit always modest about the fact that he served in the to Australia, when I was looking at tourism and sporting Ulster Defence Regiment; I did not realise that until I links post-2012. I took some time out to go around the looked him up in connection with a piece of legislation national war memorial in Canberra, which I was shown with which we were both involved. I pay tribute to him by Dr Brendan Nelson. It is engaged in completely as a former soldier—particularly that form of service. revitalising and renewing its galleries, as we are in this Any of us who served in Northern Ireland know that country. soldiering in one’s own community and going back to I had not realised the extent to which the first world war one’s own home at night still under threat was a very marked the moment when Australia came together as a different experience from that of those of us who came nation for the first time. For Australians, the centenary of to the Province and at least went back to a secure force the war—Gallipoli, in particular—is an extraordinarily base afterwards. 23WH First World War Commemoration11 JUNE 2013 First World War Commemoration 24WH

[Hugh Robertson] ancient Greece. When I had returned from the first Gulf war, someone deconstructed the tank tactics there and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will play an they were remarkably similar to those employed by ongoing role in remembering the UDR’s considerable Hannibal with elephants at the battle of Cannae thousands contribution during the troubles. As much as or perhaps of years before. There is an indication that in military even more than other places in the country, Northern affairs everything changes and nothing changes much. Ireland is synonymous with the public service inherent My hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and in service in the armed forces. The war was a key period Hythe made a powerful point about the role of museums in Northern Ireland’s history and I am delighted that and particularly the National Army museum. I have the hon. Gentleman, with his background, will be on always thought that we underestimate the role of local hand to lead and help with the period of remembrance. museums, and my hon. Friend the Member for Broadland My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North touched on the importance of local communities’ and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) talked about the role remembrance. Local museums throughout the country played by MPs. Some years ago, I tried to buy a sword will put on first world war-centric exhibitions that will that came up for auction at Bonhams. It was supposed allow people to discover what their communities were to have been the property of the first Member of like at the outbreak of war. They will play an important Parliament to have died in the first world war. I may be role in that. on dangerous ground and I will check this story, but I My hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire think his name was Edward Boyd. One of his (Mr Gray), who is also a former soldier, talked about descendants—I think it was his grandson—played a the importance of respect and of honouring those who considerable role in Northern Irish politics thereafter. served in the armed forces as a result of decisions made Edward Boyd had been in the armed services in the here. That is a key part of the educational role. 1880s and served in the South African campaign. He I thank the hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan left the armed services and was elected to Parliament in Jarvis), who speaks for the Opposition and is also a 1910. He rejoined at the start of the first world war but former soldier, for his confirmation of the Opposition’s was wiped out in a matter of minutes. He survived for support and his commitment to ensure that the only five or 10 minutes in the first campaign in which he remembrance takes place in the right way. He talked took part. I will ensure that I research his story more about the importance of that. Since becoming involved, closely. I have become aware from some people I have spoken to My hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and of a slight concern that there is no central theme. If Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw), another historian who there is one, it is not celebration—I hope that that puts gave us the benefit of that dimension, spoke absolutely the hon. Gentleman’s mind at rest—but remembrance. correctly about the link between international That is exactly what this is about, and historically communities—the Commonwealth, which played such it is what Remembrance Sunday has been about. an important part—and existing local communities in “Remembrance” is the word that sums it up. this country. He is absolutely right that it will be a The Government have laid out three themes for the powerful moment throughout communities in this country commemoration: remembrance, youth and education. when people link with their forebears and engage in an Two strands that have come through clearly this morning act of remembrance. are remembrance and the important concept of service. My hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and The Government’s role is to identify and lead the key Hythe (Damian Collins) referred to the Step Short national acts of remembrance, but after that to provide project, and we have been here before. I cannot move in a framework so that local communities—I put Parliament Kent without talking about it, and I notice that it has in that bracket—can find ways of remembering the started to appear on national briefing sheets, so he has anniversary in a way that is appropriate for them. done a splendid job in bringing it to everyone’s attention. I am sure that the phrase “to allow a thousand It is a remarkable that 10 million soldiers embarked for flowers to bloom underneath it” is correct. Some excellent the front through Folkestone. suggestions have been made today and I hope that for I was amused by my hon. Friend’s remark about all of us it will be the start of a period of exploration Philip Sassoon, one of his predecessors, and his comment and discovery that leads to an appropriate act of that the battle of Waterloo was like many battles of remembrance of this great national event. 25WH 11 JUNE 2013 Ukrainian Holodomor 26WH

Ukrainian Holodomor “All the grain without exception was requisitioned for the fulfilment of the Plan, including that set aside for sowing, fodder, and even that previously issued to the kolkhozniki”— 10.59 am the collectivised peasants— Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): It is a pleasure “as payment for their work.” to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, The authorisation included seizure of all food from all Mrs Riordan. Interestingly, this debate follows one households, and any home that did not turn over all its about the first world war. The Minister came into the grain was accused of hoarding state property. Chamber just after what was said about how we remember our past and how that is very important for our future. With the aid of military troops, USSR Government secret police and the USSR law enforcement agency, The purpose of the debate is to call on the United Communist party officials moved against peasants who Kingdom Government officially to recognise a dreadful might have been hiding grain from the Soviet Government. and tragic part of Ukraine’s history as genocide. I have Of course, to try to avoid starvation, nearly every family met the Ukrainian community in Derby, who are still attempted to conceal food, as we would expect: if people’s distressed that we have never recognised the Ukrainian children were dying, they would not want to let their holodomor as genocide, even though other countries children die, never mind themselves. Experience soon have, including some in the Commonwealth. made the brigades proficient at detecting even the cleverest The Ukrainian holodomor refers most specifically to hiding places. The result was mass starvation that took the brutal, artificial famine imposed on the Ukrainian millions of lives during the terrible winter of 1932-33. people in 1932 and 1933 by Stalin’s regime. In its Food was nearly impossible to find anywhere. Unable broadest sense, the holodomor refers to the Ukrainian to get food, many ate whatever passed for it—weeds, genocide that began in 1929 with massive waves of leaves, tree bark and insects; some were lucky enough to deadly deportations of Ukraine’s prospering farmers, be able to live on small woodland animals. as well as the deportation and execution of its religious, academic and cultural leaders, which culminated in the In August 1932, the Communist party of the USSR devastating forced famine that killed millions of innocent passed a law mandating the death penalty for theft of men, women and children. Between 1932 and 1933, a social property. Watchtowers were built and were manned man-made famine raged through Ukraine and Kuban, by trigger-happy young communists. Thousands of peasants resulting in the deaths of between 7 million and 12 million were shot for attempting to take a handful of grain or a people, mainly Ukrainians, and it was instigated by the few beets from the kolkhozes to feed their starving Soviet leader, Joseph Stalin. families. There are of course deniers of the holodomor, as To put that into perspective, at the height of the there are those who deny the existence of the holocaust. genocide, Ukrainians died at a rate of 25,000 per day, In fact, there is a division of opinion in Ukraine on and nearly one in four rural Ukrainians perished as a the number who died—from 2 million or 3 million up to direct result. At the same time, the Soviet Union dumped 12 million—but they agree that it was a man-made 1.7 million tons of grain on western markets. Nearly a famine directed at Ukrainians in Ukraine and Kuban, fifth of a ton of grain was exported for each person who and that it meets the criteria for the definition of died of starvation, and more than 3 million children genocide in the 1948 UN convention. It is hardly surprising born in 1932 and 1933 died of starvation. that there is some confusion about the holodomor, Many peasants attempted to reach Ukraine’s cities, because it is poorly documented, the records were such as Kiev, where factory workers were still allowed a manipulated and those who conducted the census were little pay and food. However, in December 1932, the executed. communists introduced internal passports. That made The main goal of the artificial famine was to break it impossible for a villager to get a city job without the the spirit of Ukrainian farmers and force them into party’s permission, which was almost universally denied. collectivism. It was used as an effective tool to break the The internal passport system was implemented to restrict resistance of Ukrainian culture. Moscow perceived it as the movements of Ukrainian peasants so that they a threat to Russo-centric Soviet rule, and therefore could not travel in search of food. Ukrainian grain was acted brutally and sadistically to crush cultural resistance. collected and stored in grain elevators guarded by military The goal of the artificial famine was to ethnically and secret police units, while Ukrainians starved in the cleanse Ukrainians from vast areas. immediate area. That Moscow-instigated action was a In 1932, Stalin increased the basic grain procurement deliberate act of genocide against the Ukrainian peasants. quota for Ukraine by 44%, knowing that such an Peasants hoped to get to Poland, Romania or even extraordinarily high quota would result in a grain shortage Russia, where there was no famine, but emigration was and the inability of Ukrainian peasants to feed themselves. strictly forbidden. Ukrainian train stations were swamped Such a goal would not have been achievable had the with the starving who hoped to sneak aboard a train or communists not already ruined the nation’s productivity to beg in the hope that a passenger on a passing train by eliminating the best farmers. might throw them a bread crust. They were repelled by That year, not a single village was able to meet the guards, who found themselves faced with the problem impossible quota, which far exceeded Ukraine’s best of removing the countless corpses of those who had output in previous years. Soviet law was quite clear that starved and which littered the stations. no grain could be given to feed the peasants until the As I said, at the famine’s height, 25,000 people died quota was met. Stalin then issued one of the cruellest per day. As the winter of 1932-33 wore on, Ukraine orders of his career: if quotas were not met, all grain became a panorama of horror. The roadsides were was to be confiscated. As one Soviet author wrote much filled with the corpses of those who had died seeking later: food. The bodies, many of which snow concealed until 27WH Ukrainian Holodomor11 JUNE 2013 Ukrainian Holodomor 28WH

[Pauline Latham] Pauline Latham: Yes, and I thank my hon. Friend for intervening with that point. That is exactly what I hope the spring thaw, were unceremoniously dumped into the Minister will be able to say in his response to the mass graves by the communists. Many others died of debate, because innocent people who have come to this starvation in their homes, with some choosing to end country and are contributing to society in Britain in a the process by suicide, commonly by hanging—if they very positive way deserve recognition of their horrific past. had the strength to do it. One American correspondent Ukraine’s Government are now asking the United reported: Nations to recognise the disaster as an act of genocide. “The bodies of some were reduced to skeletons, with their skin In recent years, the then Ukrainian President, Viktor hanging grayish-yellow and loose over their bones. Their faces Yushchenko, ordered the release of old KGB records on looked like rubber masks with large, bulging, immobile eyes. the famine. With that information, it has become very Their necks seemed to have shrunk onto their shoulders. The look apparent that the famine was a deliberate act of genocide—a in their eyes was glassy, heralding their approaching death.” method to ethnically cleanse Ukrainians from the territories The worst paradox is that much of the confiscated of Ukraine and parts of Russia. At first, only several grain was exported to the west, and large portions were thousand documents were released. Another batch of simply dumped in the sea or allowed to rot by the 25,000 documents is in the process of being declassified. Soviets. For example, a huge supply of grain lay decaying As more and more documents are released, this event in under guard at a station in Poltava province. Passing it Ukrainian history has taken on a very ominous tone. in a train, an American correspondent saw On 28 November 2006, the Parliament of Ukraine—the “huge pyramids of grain, piled high, and smoking from internal Verkhovna Rada—passed a law defining the holodomor combustion.” as a deliberate act of genocide. Since then, many nations have recognised that the holodomor was an act of In the Lubotino region, thousands of tons of confiscated genocide against the Ukrainian people. Those nations potatoes were allowed to rot, surrounded by barbed include Australia, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Estonia, wire. Ecuador, Georgia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Mexico, News of this act of brutality was got out to the west, Paraguay, Peru, Poland and the United States. Other including to Germany in observations from its consulate countries have made a holodomor declaration. They in Kharkiv, and to Britain by various journalists, such include Argentina, the Czech Republic, Chile, the Slovak as Gareth Jones—I have just heard that a book about Republic, Spain and the Balearic islands, and the Vatican. him is to be published imminently—and Malcolm Russia is still in complete denial that the event occurred Muggeridge, who never forgot what he saw. In Canada and that it was a deliberate act. In fact, in Russia, it was and the United States, the Ukrainian community explained made illegal to commemorate the event. The success of what was happening. using food as a weapon to control, punish and eliminate The genocide continued for several years with further a people was first used by Soviet communists. Since destruction of Ukraine’s political leadership, resettlement then, it has become a standard tool in the arsenal of of its depopulated areas with other ethnic groups, blatant communist regimes to control, punish and eliminate public denial of famine and prosecution of those who people and it has been used by such regimes as China, dared to speak of it publicly. It was the official policy of North Korea, Ethiopia, Cambodia and Zimbabwe. the Soviet Union to deny the existence of a famine and I am asking the Minister to investigate seriously the therefore to refuse any outside assistance. Anyone claiming issue of the Ukrainian holodomor, which I have raised that there was in fact a famine was accused of spreading today. It is time for the UK to follow the example of anti-Soviet propaganda. Inside the Soviet Union, a the countries that I have mentioned—many from the person could be arrested for even using the words Commonwealth—and set the history record straight “famine”, “hunger” or “starvation” in a sentence. once and for all. We have a large Ukrainian community in this country, and I believe that we owe it to them to The holodomor was kept out of official history until recognise the extermination of millions of their ancestors 1991, when Ukraine—a country of 47 million people— who, through no fault of their own, suffered an horrific finally won its independence. As James Perloff wrote: time. It can be defined only as genocide. That community “The Holodomor stands as a permanent warning of what would be extremely grateful to the Government if they happens when unlimited state power destroys God-given rights. A were to change their mind and redefine the holodomor cursory review of America’s Bill of Rights demonstrates that as the genocide that it feels like to so many people. This virtually every right mentioned was trampled on by Stalin in Ukraine. Yet although the dictator used every means to eradicate is not about politics, reparations or blame, but about the people’s will, the national spirit lived on unbreakably, until basic human morality and respect for life. Ukraine gained its independence.” 11.13 am Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): I thank my The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): Iam hon. Friend for securing this important debate. There is grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire a vibrant Ukrainian community in Huddersfield and (Pauline Latham) for her success in securing this debate Colne Valley, and I celebrated Christmas with them in and for the way in which she made her case. She did so January earlier this year. Four years ago, following an with a commitment, eloquence and passion that did exhibition on the holodomor in the Kalyna community justice to the gravity of the appalling events that we are centre in Huddersfield, Kirklees council, my local council, debating. voted to accept that the holodomor was genocide. Does To say that the famine that culminated in 1932 and my hon. Friend agree that it is now time for the United 1933 was a terrible tragedy is to underestimate the sheer Kingdom to recognise formally that these horrific events brutality and inhumanity of what took place. I think were in fact genocide? that my hon. Friend would be the first to agree that the 29WH Ukrainian Holodomor11 JUNE 2013 Ukrainian Holodomor 30WH anecdotes and illustrations on which she drew in her I can well understand the depth and strength of feeling speech can give us only the briefest glimpse of an in favour of doing that and why some Parliaments horrific picture that was the daily experience of suffering around the world have already done so. As the House among people in Ukraine during that time. The numbers knows, there is still a debate among historians and of people who were involved and who suffered are others on the question of recognition of the holodomor staggering. Across vast swathes of what was then the as genocide. Genocide has a defined status in international Soviet Union—notably in Ukraine, but also as far west law, following the 1948 UN genocide convention. The as Moldova and eastwards into Kazakhstan—millions holodomor predates the establishment of the concept of people starved to death because of the policies of of genocide in international law and the convention was their own Government. not drafted to apply retrospectively. It is a cause for some heart searching in the western Government policy is that recognition of genocides world that for decades this tragedy was often overlooked should be a matter for judicial decision, bearing in mind or ignored. Worse, it was in some quarters denied, even the terms of the convention and the consequences for among some who had pretentions to serious scholarship. individuals and Governments that can follow from the Of course, countless people inside and outside Ukraine designation of their actions as genocide. It should be have fought to keep alive the memory of those who died for judges, rather than Governments or non-judicial in this atrocity and to raise awareness of the holodomor, bodies, to make a designation of genocide. Recognition but probably in the west it was pioneering historians of decisions should be based on a credible judicial process, their time, such as Robert Conquest, who first drew and the courts are best placed to judge what are essentially attention to what had happened. I still remember reading criminal matters. The British Government have not as a schoolboy the first volume of Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s proactively designated any atrocities as genocide. Those “The Gulag Archipelago” and finding there his account we have recognised—the holocaust, the 1994 killings in of the famine set in its broader context of policies of Rwanda and the 1995 massacre at Srebrenica—are all persecution, policies sometimes of slaughter, that were cases in which judicial bodies had judged the outrages to directed by Lenin and Stalin against the peoples over be genocide, in line with the definition in international whom they ruled. What the efforts of those historians law. and of those many people inside and outside Ukraine We have made clear, and will continue to make have achieved is that people across the world continue clear, our abiding horror at what happened in Ukraine to remember those who were lost and reflect today on in the 1930s. Every year, the Ukrainian Government the warning from history that the famine clearly provides. hosts a formal ceremony of commemoration in Kiev. There is no question, in the Government’s view, but They invite foreign ambassadors, and our ambassador that the famine took place as a result of Stalin and the normally represents the UK at that event. To mark the actions of his Government. It was a man-made tragedy. 75th anniversary of the holodomor in 2008, their Royal It is clear, too, that it was within modern Ukraine where Highnesses the Duke of York and Princess Eugenie the terrible consequences of those actions were most travelled to Kiev, took part in the ceremony and laid heavily borne. On the question whether Ukraine was wreathes at the Kiev memorial to the victims of the specifically targeted, whether this was a campaign directed holodomor. by Stalin against any manifestation of Ukrainian I give my hon. Friend and the House the undertaking nationhood, that is certainly widely believed, although that we will not forget or overlook what happened. It is it is not without controversy inside Ukraine, but it is important for all of us that Governments and peoples also true that other parts of the then Soviet Union were throughout Europe continue to learn the lessons from gravely affected by the famine. In Kazakhstan, for what happened in Ukraine and elsewhere in eastern example, the death toll as a proportion of the local Europe in those years, to ensure that no one is again population was higher than that in Ukraine. Areas of tempted towards policies that could have such an appalling rural Russia were also affected; innocent people died effect on innocent men, women and children. We will there, too. look for other opportunities to demonstrate our solidarity However, it is also clear that the Soviet regime felt with the people of Ukraine. We will mark with them the deep hostility towards any manifestation of Ukrainian opportunity to mourn those who suffered or lost their nationalism and it must have known that policies targeting lives during the holodomor and recall the importance the agricultural regions of the Soviet Union would have of remembrance of the atrocity for the new generations a disproportionate effect on Ukraine. The fact that, growing to adulthood today. Nothing should diminish during the famine, Stalin closed the eastern border of the horror or magnitude of the events in Ukraine and Ukraine to prevent starving peasants from entering elsewhere in the Soviet Union in the 1930s. Man-made Russia in search of food is perhaps one of the strongest policies, a brutal dictatorship and a pitiless ideology led indications that his policy was, at least in part, motivated to the deaths of many millions of innocent people. That by a hostility towards Ukraine as a nation, with an is something that the world cannot and should never identity, tradition and culture of its own. I think that no forget. reasonable man or woman today would deny the horror, the atrocity, that was the holodomor. My hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire asks whether the Government will recognise the holodomor 11.23 am formally as a genocide. Given the history of the holodomor, Sitting suspended. 31WH 11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 32WH

SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) and NHS trusts. Hospital food does not have to meet British farm-assured standards, for example, that are signalled by the Red Tractor logo that everyone knows [MR PHILIP HOLLOBONE in the Chair] and in which many trust. That is a practical illustration of the job of work that has to be done. I am focusing on food in this debate, but we could go right across the 2.30 pm spectrum—many producer organisations are SMEs. SMEs Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair): In one moment I are where the bulk of our employment, innovation and shall call the first speaker in the debate. I can confidently entrepreneurship is, and they need a fair opportunity to predict that after Mr Irranca-Davies has made his opening get into procurement. speech, I will not be setting a time limit. The next Often, the argument has been that we cannot specify speakers will be Andrew Bingham and Iain McKenzie, British products—or products from Cornwall, Devon, and we will then see who else turns up. I shall, however, Wales or wherever—because we have to play by the EU call the Front-Bench spokespeople at no later than and World Trade Organisation rules, but a lot of Welsh 3.30 pm, and perhaps sooner. Government work over a number of years has shown clearly that that argument is unjustified. Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): I admire your confidence, Mr Hollobone; I have been known to wax Excellent work is being done by not only the Welsh eloquent for days, but on this occasion I will be happy Government but leading-edge people in Bangor university. to allow others to contribute as well. Dermot Cahill leads on a procurement project at Bangor, which considers the legality of the issues and the technical This is a welcome opportunity to debate an important implementation of more innovative approaches. He will subject. There is cross-party interest in ensuring that point clearly to the fact that EU law is far more flexible procurement works far better for small and medium-sized than it is often given credit for. Something like 80% of enterprises than it has done in the past. The Government procurement contracts fall outside EU legislation anyway, here are doing work on that, and I will refer to some of as far as their size and shape is concerned, so the excuse the innovative and pioneering work of the Welsh that we are bound by EU regulations when tendering Government. I also want to deal with some of the contracts does not seem to apply to eight out of 10 of myths about why we cannot do more—not least, those those contracts. about the European Union. I know that props are not allowed in this or any other The Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012 is often parliamentary Chamber, but I have in front of me an held up as a reason why we have difficulty in applying exposé from Farmers Weekly, which ran a good campaign local and regional procurement, particularly with SMEs, called “Get Better, Get British”. We know that over but although neither the Act nor EU law is pertinent many years, if not decades, British farmers have been here—perhaps the Minister can confirm that—the latter asked, often quite rightly, to invest heavily in the highest is often directly blamed. standards of animal welfare, environmental measures The McClelland review in Wales produced a and so on, but doing that brings costs. In the UK, we groundbreaking report. It found, on the basis of the now have British buying standards, and the question is best available legal advice and technical interpretations, this: how do we translate those standards in food produce that there was no evidence that EU law obligations were into being represented by SMEs that can supply to local inhibiting procurement reform. We must remember, of government, the NHS, the Ministry of Defence and course, that EU law itself promotes transparency, and others? That does not seem to be happening. that is something that is lacking at the moment. I do not If I may, I will briefly plug the Farmers Weekly “Get say that to criticise the Government but to highlight the Better, Get British” campaign, which identified that one point that we have come to: despite everything I have in 10 NHS hospital trusts sources 50% or less of its food just said, all of which is legally grounded within the from Britain. The campaign also points out that the McClelland report and the work of legal experts in cost of feeding a patient varies between £14.40 and academia in Wales and elsewhere, the UK is the highest £2.11 per day across trusts. Most people would think, user, at 55%, of the restricted procedure. “We can see how you could use good ingredients and We know from experience that many other EU countries get good nutritional standards by spending £14.40, use an open procedure, which makes procurement sourcing, where the standards are appropriate, locally opportunities far more visible to SMEs and allows and regionally from British farmers.” them much more participation within tendering However, hospital spending on food goes down to as competitions and bids. low as £2.11 per day. Most people would struggle to explain not simply the divergence in the figures but how the nutrient value can be achieved with that little money, Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab): Does my hon. and how there can be procurement for SMEs within the Friend feel, as I do, that the McClelland report, which locality and the region. The NHS trusts at the lower end has also been used in Scotland, shone a light on of the spend range would be performing a magic trick if procurement practices that were very much set in the they were pulling that off. past and brought procurement up to date sooner rather than later? In addition, according to the campaign, 93% of NHS trusts do not carry out any traceability checks on their food. We know that, despite what I said earlier Huw Irranca-Davies: I agree with my hon. Friend. We about British standards within food—the British buying seem to have a legacy of mythology about why we standards and so on, of which the Government are a cannot do things with procurement for SMEs, and keen proponent—the standards do not apply to hospitals those myths are used as the excuse not to do anything. 33WH SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 34WH

We first need to shatter some of the myths, and then procurement officers and departments at all levels—central say to those who work in procurement departments, Government, local government and all agencies—to “There is no excuse. We will encourage, support, offer have the necessary will and capabilities, which I shall guidance and put in place, when necessary, light-touch touch on in a moment. regulatory approaches, but you need to get on and Inappropriate use of frameworks can amount to design procurement contracts in a way that will encourage market exclusion. Frameworks—long-enduring ones with the highest level of competition—not simply between four-year-long contract applications, for instance—are four or five big companies—and put the information sometimes there for a good purpose, but once they are out there that there is a competition going on.” won the process is over. Long frameworks are normally Far too often, procurement contracts are simply not linked to large, onerous contract documents of immense well publicised and promoted, so it is no surprise that detail and complexity, and they are sometimes not the local food producers, haulage companies, building right way forward, particularly if we want to encourage contractors and so on have no idea that procurement is more SMEs to take part in the bidding process. going on. How will they get the business if there is no There is a flip side: the more we go for frameworks, proper promotion? the more we are likely to minimise the number of those My hon. Friend the Member for Inverclyde (Mr McKenzie) wanting to tender and possibly to encourage cartel is absolutely right. Through the McClelland report and operation. If there are only four, five or six large players its application in different devolved jurisdictions, we are in any particular sector that can bid through a framework seeing a different way forward. First, we need absolutely document over several years, with all the complexity to shatter the mythology, and then to say, “Let’s all work involved, that is likely to lead to their taking the opportunity together to devise a way in which we can open the for cartel behaviour. I have to stress that I will not, market up”. By so doing, we are not creating unfair under parliamentary privilege, lay any direct accusations competition; we are increasing competition. We are not before the House. [Interruption.] Not today. levelling the field to promote just local farmers or food How do we get through some of these things? I will producers; we are saying, “You should be aware of the use the example of the Welsh Government. There are tendering processes coming up in your local school, the good local examples of local authorities, such as Camden fire service and so on, and we will design the contracts in and others, doing really innovative work on procurement a way that allows you to go for them, just as anyone else by applying ideas about increasing transparency and can.” We first need to open the door, to allow them to do extending the offer to more SMEs, but the example of just that. the Welsh Government is instructive and, as a Welsh I do not claim to be an expert in the field, but strong MP, I know it well. I am not saying that the Minister consensus is now building in the devolved Administrations must do what the Welsh Government say and follow and elsewhere about the way forward. Some of that their example—although sometimes that is not a bad relates to inadequate feedback, or its complete absence, thing—but simply that they are carving out a method from public procurers to those who want to bid. SMEs that is in its early days, but is legally and technically might bid for something and not be successful, and that sound and already seems to be having significant effects is the end of it—they are not told where they have gone in opening the market to SMEs in procurement at all wrong, what their weaknesses are and how they might levels in Wales. improve. In the Welsh Government’s policy statement on It is no surprise, given the cost and resource intensity procurement in December, based on the McClelland of putting some bids together, that many SMEs say, review, they set out the principles against which the “Well, that was a waste of our time. We don’t know Welsh public sector—including the NHS, education, where we went wrong. We aren’t going to do that fire and rescue, local authorities and any bodies sponsored again.” Big corporations, whether in the food sector or by the Welsh Government—should carry out procurement. elsewhere, have units and departments specifically to do It was made in recognition of the fact that the value of procurement and they can take off the shelf the computer Welsh public sector procurement is approximately model of their recent bids and put in a lot of effort. An £4.3 billion a year, which is almost a third of the overall SME might be a local haulage company with 20 people Welsh public sector budget. We can see what an impact working for it, of which one, in addition to their other it would have locally and regionally if we could encourage jobs, is told, “Have a try for this one. We’ve finally SMEs to take part, with a multiplier effect not only heard about a contract coming up, so have a go for it.” through the supply chain, but in the wider communities However, they hear nothing back, so they receive no where the money goes. guidance. That is simply wrong. Jane Hutt, the Minister responsible, said in the policy Many tender documents for procurement are inadequate: statement: some are too large or too extensive, to the point that it is no wonder that SMEs do not apply—they identify that “We must use innovative, evidence based, approaches to procurement to support the design and delivery of efficient and the profit margin could be the same as the cost of effective public services”— devising the bid. Why would they bother to go for it? yes, let us make them efficient and effective, with value The issue is often to do with the fact that some of the for money, and so on— bonds or liabilities required are absolutely beyond the reach of SMEs. It is fair enough if there is a reason for “and to optimise the added value that is delivered to the economy having large financial guarantees, but some contracts and communities of Wales.” are relatively small and the procurement could easily be Why have we argued that we cannot say those things intelligently devised so that hurdles—liabilities and bonds— about procurement, when the Welsh Minister, with the were far lower. That would encourage more SMEs support of the Counsel General for Wales in the Welsh to apply. It is not rocket science, but it does require Government, can make such a statement? That statement 35WH SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 36WH

[Huw Irranca-Davies] The Welsh Government have actually set it down and said that because there is a direct correlation, they can be followed through in procurement practices at all demand of all their organisations that they move towards levels, and we need not hide from it. We must be open, adequate resourcing, because they know that it benefits transparent and competitive with anybody who wants SMEs. to bid in such processes, but we can gear our policies On the economic, social and environmental impact, towards supporting our own communities. the Welsh Government will use sustainable risk assessment On added value, the Minister said that the Welsh and take account of the long-term impact on the Government combination of benefits of sustainability and community. “will utilise public procurement creatively as a strategic tool to If I turn to community benefits, they specifically say deliver economic benefit to the people and communities of Wales that through employment, training and supply-chain opportunities.” “delivery of added value through Community Benefits policy That will be part and parcel of the procurement approach must be an integral consideration in procurement.” and design. As Jane Hutt said, it supports other strategies, such as tackling poverty in communities and economic On open accessible competition, the Welsh Government regeneration. say: On the back of the exhaustive work done by the “Public bodies should adopt risk based proportionate approaches Welsh Government, the statement makes it clear that to procurement”. not only are the approaches legally sound, but they are That is the thrust of what I am saying today. We have tried and tested, and proven to work. In the December got into a dilemma with large, off the shelf risk averse policy statement, Jane Hutt said: procurement contracts: either very few people are doing “There are no reasons or excuses why all organisations cannot them or people are specifically rewarded for driving fully adopt them and there must be no delay in so doing.” down costs on what they were awarded last year, instead Let me explain the principles of the Welsh public of being rewarded for the wider social and community procurement policy that she is asking organisations to benefits that also flow from procurement bids. We are adopt. The first principle is strategic: allowed to reward on that basis, so why are we not doing it more? We need open accessible competition “Procurement should be recognised and managed as a strategic corporate function that organises and understands expenditure; and influencing early planning and service design and involved in “risk-based proportionate approaches to procurement to ensure decision making to support delivery of overarching objectives.” that contract opportunities are open to all and smaller local That will be set out as the strategy. suppliers.” The next is professionally resourced procurement, On a simplified standard process, the Welsh Government which is that say: “procurement expenditure should be subject to an appropriate “Procurement processes should be open and transparent and level of professional involvement and influence”. based on standard approaches and use of common systems that appropriately minimise complexity, costs, timescales and requirements That relates to one of the big criticisms of procurement, for suppliers.” which is absolutely true. Accountancy and many other disciplines are careers that people aim to go into and One thing that is specifically pushed is e-procurement. design themselves for: they want to do the levels of Rather than submitting 20 versions of highly complex, continuing professional development and to pick up onerous, expensive documentation that has to go to chartered institute qualifications. There are good different people for consideration, it is a lot easier for procurement officers, but all too often people fall into SMEs to do it in a simplified way, by e-procurement. procurement inadvertently and get minimal resources The Welsh Government are pushing hard on that and to do it. will expect their agencies, providers and local authorities to move towards it at a rate of knots. The issue of minimal resources is fascinating because, as the Minister will know, good analysis has been done The Welsh Government talk about collaboration among of procurement departments by looking at the correlation SMEs, so that SMEs can come together locally and bid, between the number of people dedicated to procurement and advise them how to do it. There are so many ways in a local authority, fire services and so on and the in which we can take these things forward, including the number of SMEs that are successful in bidding. There is supplier qualification information database—SQuID— a direct correlation between the number of people—not innovation. I will not go on and on. only the number, but their expertise—working on The essence of my argument is that we can no longer procurement in a local authority, a fire service or the hide behind the idea that because of EU rules or World NHS and the degree of success in getting bids to SMEs. Trade Organisation rules, we should not be devising Why? Because those people take more time and more intelligently appropriate procurement bid documentation care for detail intelligently to design procurement contracts that works for SMEs. I say that unashamedly because I so that they are suitable for SMEs to bid for, so that am all in favour of open and transparent competition they are not onerous and do not include huge barriers for anybody who wants to bid into the system, but the of complexity, finance and bureaucracy, and so that the way we have traditionally done it has favoured very few pre-qualifying operation does not look like a tender small players. There is a real issue of investment, both bid. financially and in guidance on the expertise of procurement On professionally resourced procurement, the policy departments. We should force the pace of change with statement continues that it should adopt local authorities, the NHS, fire services and Government “the initial benchmark of a minimum of one procurement professional agencies to go down that line to ensure that we deliver per £10m of expenditure.” the maximum benefit for our local and regional SMEs. 37WH SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 38WH

What we are trying to do is level the playing field. It perhaps even celebration for a small business; they have frustrates me, because I am tired of employers coming an inquiry from a responsible public authority that they to me and saying, “Why is it that I always end up just know they will be paid for and from which they can picking up the crumbs from larger contracts? Even hopefully make a reasonable profit. However, in reality, though I am a pretty reasonably sized medium-sized for the people I have spoken to, that is not the case. I firm, I have not got the expertise or the time to bid for know of businesses that have actually ignored public some of these massive contracts. The only ones bidding sector inquiries on the basis that they are not worth the are the likes of Laing O’Rourke and Carillion. Why do I effort the business has to put in to get the work. I have to be a subcontractor for them?” Things are starting understand the amount of rigour that has to be undergone to change in Wales, and it is happening on a good sound for some huge infrastructure contract, but let us be legal basis. I am interested to hear what the UK Government honest, a company the size of Laing O’Rourke has the are doing and what they are learning from Scotland and capacity and resources to deal with all that stuff. I am Wales and from places such as Camden local authority talking about the SMEs that do not have such resources. in London so that they can do more and do it more From my experience, when a small company gets an quickly. There is a way forward. Let us stop making inquiry from a public sector body, it comes bound up in excuses and drive ahead for the social, economic and a lot of bureaucratic red tape. The small business owner, community benefits of our own areas and of UK plc. which is what I was, looks at it and considers what they have to do even to put a price in. When they work that out and look at the value of the contract, they find that 2.54 pm by the time they have fulfilled all the bureaucratic Andrew Bingham (High Peak) (Con): It is a pleasure, criteria, the profit is so small that it is not worth doing. Mr Hollobone, to serve under your chairmanship. I Some people might say, “So what? There are plenty of congratulate the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca- other companies that will do it.” That is not the point. Davies) on securing this very important debate. He The big companies might do it, and the hon. Gentleman spoke with great passion and I agree with many of the made some good points in that regard, but is it necessarily points that he made. achieving the best result for the taxpayer? I do not believe that it is. Although I do not want to alienate the I ran a very small business for many years and know large companies in my constituency, I have to say that how hard it is to procure contracts with public sector many small and micro businesses run lean and tight organisations. When dealing with private sector businesses, ships. I used to find that the public sector had three questions. “Can you supply the goods? What is the price? Is the quality of the product good enough?” Indeed if any of Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): I have been listening us were buying something for ourselves, whether a carefully to the debate, although I arrived late, for three-piece suite or a new carpet, those would be the which I apologise. One point of great relevance is about three questions we would ask. However, I understand missed opportunities. A large number of small businesses that when considering public sector procurement, life is have quite useful inventions and new technologies that not quite as simplistic as that; there are other significant do not always see the light of day. They apply to the issues to be addressed. Moreover, as a public body national health service or to some other large public dealing with public money, there are certain other sector organisation and the simple process of getting considerations that should be taken into account. Ostensibly, them on to the table for negotiation is impossible. Let us though, they should be looking for the same thing: a think too of the lost opportunities in new inventions good reliable service or product that is properly produced and new engineering ideas. at a competitive price and has a robust after-sales back-up service. Let us stand up for the public sector. Small businesses Andrew Bingham: My hon. Friend makes a good derive one advantage from dealing with a public sector point, and I will come to something along those lines in organisation—as I can vouch from experience—and a moment. that is security of payment. I have lost count of the As I was saying, many small and micro-businesses number of times over the 25 years that I was in business run tight ships—they are hyper-efficient. Consequently, when private customers delayed payment, were slow in they can offer products and services at much reduced payment or, even worse, went into liquidation or receivership prices, and every bit equal in quality. However, all the owing my business money. Sometimes they owed me bureaucratic muddle and red tape is not only depriving very small amounts. Thankfully, it was only on a few small businesses of the opportunity to supply but means occasions that I was owed large amounts. At this point I that public sector bodies are paying more money for the could veer off into the issue of phoenix companies, but services they procure. The process is costing public I am sure that Mr Hollobone would soon call me to sector bodies more twice over. First, someone in the heel. public body must administer all the paperwork, with all We are talking about SMEs, which can employ 100 the forms having to be read, checked and all the rest of employees, but I also want to bat for the micro-businesses it, so that creates a higher cost for procurement. Secondly, with five or six employees. When a public sector body because the public sector bodies are ruling out—shall sends an inquiry to a small business, that SME knows we say?—more competitive companies by their system, that its money will be safe, which is important. My late they are also paying more for the products they procure. father used to say, “It is not sold until it is paid for, In many respects, the public sector is paying more for son.” An order from a local authority was almost as goods; I hate to use the phrase, “paying through the good as getting cash in the bank. When the public body nose”, but it is paying a premium because of its own comes knocking, it should be a cause for hope and processes. 39WH SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 40WH

[Andrew Bingham] Andrew Bingham: Maybe so, but I have promised not to give out any names and with the greatest of respect About 18 months ago, I held a small business event in to the Minister she does not vote for me and those my constituency to help my local small enterprises deal people do, so I do not want to upset the applecart from with local authorities and other big public bodies, to try that point of view. to break down some of the bureaucratic barriers that the public sector bodies put in their way; to be honest, As I say, the PQQ that I referred to is just 20 pages sometimes they do so unwittingly. In total, 85 local long; there are some that are much longer. I have seen companies came along to that event, and they all came some that are 64 pages, and more. If someone was with a very similar tale. They all mentioned the dreaded procuring, for example, High Speed 2, I could understand pre-qualification questionnaire, or PQQ, which seems that process, but for buying some wallpaper it is absolutely to be the bane of every small business person’s life. As ridiculous. I could give the House numerous examples the hon. Member for Ogmore said, public sector bodies from my own experience. I remember tendering to seem to have a system whereby they say, “This is the supply power tools to a local authority. I lost the procurement package we use, whether the contract is contract and I am not bitter about it because it was worth billions, millions, thousands or tens of pounds.” 20 years ago—well, I am not very bitter about it. I lost it It just seems to be the same process and it seems like a by a very small amount of money. However, what was sledgehammer to crack a nut. not factored in was the fact that the local authority I was tendering to, which was very close to my premises, In discussing the PQQs, I will change the names, wanted an option to pick up and take away tools. I lost because I want to protect both the innocent and the the contract, but I lost it to a supplier 70 miles away. guilty. I have one PQQ here, which is 64 pages long. It Because my headline price was a little higher than they was given to me by a local small supplier. I will not say had quoted, I did not get the contract, but I thought, what the company does, because that would give a clue, “Well, how much is it going to cost for the vans for the but we will work on the theory that it supplies wallpaper, authority to go to and fro 70 miles to pick up odd bits because that fits. Obviously, I do not want to disclose and bobs for the next two years?” It was then that I the company owner’s details, because it is not fair on started to see the difficulties and—shall we say?— him. He tendered for a fairly modest contract with a shortcomings in dealing with local authorities. public sector organisation, which will also remain nameless. He sent me a PQQ that is 20 pages long and asks for Not many years before I was elected, we had a information such as cash-flow forecasts. It also asks for campaign in Glossop in my constituency to restore a bank letter outlining the company’s current cash and some park gates, which were a big thing in Glossop. I credit position. I am sure that the bank would supply instigated the campaign, I raised the money, I put in for that information, but from my experience of dealing the planning permission and I managed to get a local with banks I would say that it will probably charge him. company to make the gates. The local authority at the time put up what I think it called an “interpretation Looking at the level of detail of the contract, I see board”. The chap putting it up said to me, “How much that there is an extra cost. It does not matter about all did the gates cost?” I told him and he said, “Crikey. The the paperwork and all the rest of it; the company owner interpretation board cost more than that.” That made has got a bill from his bank. The public sector body me think, “Hang on a minute, who’s buying smart wants details of his company’s equal opportunities policy, here?”, and I think that “buying smart” is the phrase we its health and safety policy and it even asks him to should use. “describe your organisation’s current workforce development and training programme”. From my experience, I do not think that the public sector does “buy smart”. I think that the Government The company is a micro-business that employs three or are trying to get to grips with the problem and they are four people, supplying goods—as I say, we will go with doing some good things, but from what I see across a wallpaper—and it has to supply all that information. I wide range of public sector bodies there seems to be too read the form with incredulity; I have even torn the page much focus on the process and not on the outcome. As off, so that the cameras in Westminster Hall cannot a former small business man myself, that drives me pick up who sent it to the company owner. I could go on mad. The process is absolutely ridiculous: it costs the at great length, and given that we have the time I could authority more to administer; it costs the suppliers actually read the whole of a 64-page PQQ I have, more to fill in all the paperwork; and it is just a because I could get it all in before the debate finishes. In form-filling culture. That culture does not exist in the fact, I was thinking that there are people who collect private sector—small businesses do not send forms different things, and we should have a name for people round, tick them and all the rest of it. who collect PQQs, because I could be one of them. Somehow we have to drive that practice out of the public sector. I know that we cannot get rid of all of it The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss but we really need to clamp down on it, because our Chloe Smith): I hope that my hon. Friend will excuse me small businesses, as I have often said, are the engine for quickly intervening. I am sure that he is right to room of the country, employing a huge percentage of want to protect those involved, but anyone watching our work force, and we need to give them every chance this debate and regretting that they cannot pick up the to supply big public sector organisations for all their details on camera might like—if they know the details—to different contracts, be they for pens and paper clips or go to the Mystery Shopper page on the Cabinet Office for roads and railways. We need to give our small website, which I will discuss in my response to the businesses a fair chance, because they will put people in debate, and before the end of the debate we can “shop employment, and all the community benefits will keep in” some bad practice. spinning through our local communities. 41WH SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 42WH

What public procurement should be about is buying The majority of SMEs are relatively unaware of the right goods or services at the right price and the where to look for opportunities, and they believe it is right time, and getting the best value for money for the too time-consuming to try to find out about them. In taxpayer. The evidence I have seen is that there is still a addition, they do not bid, because they feel they are long, long way to go with public sector organisations to unable to compete with larger suppliers. One in five make that happen. SMEs believes it is unsuccessful in a bid because it is unable to offer better value for money than other suppliers. 3.7 pm One member of the Federation of Small Businesses said: Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab): It is indeed a pleasure, Mr Hollobone, to serve under your chairmanship “Local authorities are the bureaucratic mind at work, busily today. inventing disproportionately complicated procedures.” I start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member Does that not sound familiar? for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) on securing this very Could the Minister look at the following points—she important debate. He spoke on this subject with passion, will be glad to hear that the list is not overly lengthy—to enthusiasm and knowledge. I could not agree more with improve SMEs’ prospects of securing Government what he said, to the point that I fear I may just repeat contracts? First, could access to public contracts and his speech with a Scottish accent. Without doubt, the pre-qualification questionnaires not be simplified? Secondly, importance of small and medium-sized enterprises across could there not be education seminars on how to tender the UK cannot be overstated. SMEs are the backbone for contracts, especially through e-procurement? Thirdly, of the British economy and we need to ensure that both there could be much better access to information about central Government and local government do everything public sector procurement opportunities for SMEs. More they can to help them through the procurement tendering needs to be done to improve channels of information, process to secure contracts. so that small businesses know what contracts are up for SMEs employ more than 14 million people and have tender. a combined turnover of £1,500 billion, which accounts Government buyers need to develop business associations for some 47% of private sector employment and about with local SMEs and to set up standard contracts of 34% of turnover. Importantly for a local economy, 83p terms and conditions before inviting companies to tender of every £1 spent with a local business will go back into for released contracts. That will, of course, entail a that local economy. separation of duties, in that those who source would Those are just some of the statistics about SMEs. not be those who evaluate tenders and place contracts. They are vital to the economic well-being of Britain There also needs to be a focus on building an integrated and vital to employment opportunities. They are the supply chain, in which there are no weak links, and on driving force of our economy and they deserve their fair applying green procurement to keep that supply chain share of public sector procurement. Small businesses as short and as local as possible. are struggling to survive in these challenging economic Where possible, e-procurement should be used to times, so it is essential that they have every opportunity enable SMEs quickly and economically to bid for contracts. to win Government contracts or to become part of the The Government also need to target and improve contract supply chain to local and national Government. monitoring for performance if business associations are Public procurement spend is significant even in these to continue and to be justified. In addition, the Government challenging times. Public sector bodies, including central must prove best value by having multiple bids that are Government, the armed forces and the NHS, spend evaluated against clear contract weighting. around £220 billion a year on goods and services— What of the spend of local authorities? The procurement everything from stationery and office furniture to medical spend of many councils is significant, averaging £185 million equipment and catering services. Despite that, however, for each local authority. Nationally, that is billions of public procurement is an underused tool when it comes pounds per year. On the basis of the rather limited to keeping trade local. Nearly three quarters of SMEs figures available, however, less than 50% of that spend rarely or never bid for government work, and more than goes to SMEs. A significant proportion of councils do three quarters of SMEs believe that there are barriers to not record the size or location of the businesses they awareness of government opportunities. Many say that spend with, and that should be rectified. lengthy and complex pre-qualification questionnaires disadvantage smaller businesses. The playing field has Cost savings are overwhelmingly the biggest driver of been stacked against SMEs trying to win public sector procurement policy, outweighing other factors, such contracts. To many SMEs, public procurement seems to as the quality of goods and services, and economic have been deliberately designed so that they do not development. That is understandable, given the constraints succeed. on local government, but it is, none the less, regrettable, More than half of SMEs feel that the process of because cost should not always be the most significant tendering for Government contracts requires more time factor in awarding a contract, and savings can also be and resources than their business can allow for. Some made through quality. 50% of SMEs find it significantly more difficult to If you will allow me, Mr Hollobone, I will describe deliver to Government agencies than to the private what has been taking shape in Scotland over the past sector, mainly because of the additional formalities couple of years. There has been a total redesigning of required by public sector clients. SMEs say over and the procurement process, which has embraced private, over again that the bureaucracy needs to be simplified cutting-edge procurement practices to bring about the to help them bid for public sector contracts and especially maximum savings. I hope that will banish the days of low-value contracts. off-the-shelf, catalogue procurement. 43WH SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 44WH

[Mr Iain McKenzie] (Huw Irranca-Davies) on securing the debate. My only sadness is that a debate of such magnitude and gravitas Some years ago, Scotland Excel was developed, bringing does not have a much wider audience and that more together the combined spend of the 32 local authorities Members could not be here. However, it is good to see in Scotland. More to the point, it updated and standardised that the Welsh are in a majority today, with four Members procurement practices, which was necessary if local here, along with another Member from the Celtic fringe. government was to deal with these challenging times We will look closely at what the Minister has to say. and bring about the savings required in their spend. Many SMEs have been successful in gaining contracts through this collaborative buying consortium. Many Miss Smith: Four? other areas of the UK employ buying consortiums; they have had many successes, and they have many Chris Evans: There is the hon. Member for Pudsey good practices they could and should share across the (Stuart Andrew) behind you. He is a sleeper; we sent country. him on reconnaissance to Pudsey.Come back to Wrexham! Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) When we talk about the role of businesses in the (PC): I apologise to the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw economy, we are often talking about small and medium- Irranca-Davies) for being rather late for the debate. The sized enterprises. Let us not forget that half of private hon. Member for Inverclyde (Mr McKenzie) is making sector turnover is accounted for by SMEs. In Wales, the an important point. About 75% of procurement in public sector spends approximately £4.3 billion per Scotland is sourced in Scotland, but only about 50% of annum through procurement, which accounts for more procurement in Wales is sourced in Wales. What are the than a third of the overall Welsh public sector budget. major lessons Wales could learn from Scotland? That includes everything from stationery, paper clips and office furniture to medical equipment. In my Mr McKenzie: They are working jointly, and the constituency, up in Croespenmaen, we have Abingdon McClelland report has been shared by both Administrations. Flooring, which supplies furnishings for MOD properties. As I said, it shone a light on procurement practices in What is more, the public sector is the largest user of local and national Government and updated them, bringing services and goods from the private and voluntary in many good, cutting-edge practices. It is recognised sectors in Wales. The scale of public sector procurement that if we devolve procurement to a local level, the in Wales and across Britain means that it is the biggest supply chain can be improved and can be kept as short driver of economic growth and the biggest lever the as possible. I should also mention the green procurement Government can use. No one, on either side of the card, which is used across Europe to justify a local House, can fail to recognise the importance of public spend. sector procurement. Can SMEs do anything to improve their situation? I remember going to a seminar with Lord Sugar, Yes, they can. They can prepare before bidding for when he talked about green industry. He said that is contracts. They should know their strengths and highlight okay having wind farms, but they need steel: where are them in any bid. They can become aware of appropriate we procuring that? My frustration about procurement opportunities and select the right ones. They can engage is that everyone knows its importance; but, for all the with their clients, discussing their requirements if they companies that come to me and tell me that they are are unsure about them. trying to procure for something, there are hoops to SMEs can also use their clients’ chosen method to jump through. It gets to the point where they are deal with those clients. If that is online, they should frustrated and give up on the process. learn how to load to the bid portal and about what limitations the portal has in terms of the size of the I read recently that the Prime Minister’s enterprise tender document and the time it takes to load. SMEs adviser David Young said he was not convinced that the should not miss a bid by running over the deadline value of SMEs was being fully exploited across the because their data was slow to upload. public sector. It worries me that it seems from a Cabinet Office report that the target of 25% of all government SMEs should also fully meet their clients’ needs and contracts has been quietly dropped. Indeed, from some know what matters most in their hierarchy of weighting. statements from the civil service it seems that the 25% Finally, they should combine expertise with innovation, target is not a target but an aspiration. I agree with the and explain themselves clearly if any new practices or Government that that target could be a catalyst to processes are involved on their side of the supply chain. achieve change in the economy; but that must be driven We should always remember that awarding to local from Whitehall, and be more than an aspiration. It SMEs has many rewards: it builds local businesses, with must be measurable, constant and universally accepted. many becoming subcontractors to the initial contract Also, which businesses does it apply to? Is it for larger winner; it creates local employment opportunities and businesses or for small and medium-sized business? Are secures employment locally; and moneys spent locally micro-businesses included as well? I do not believe there tend to circulate locally, supporting other businesses is anyone who does not see SMEs as job creators. The and jobs. To conclude, SMEs are important, and they SMEs of today will be the major companies of the will always be important to our economy. future. What the debate comes down to essentially is this: we 3.17 pm will cut the welfare bill and bring down the deficit only Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): It is a pleasure through people in jobs paying taxes. The only way we to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I shall achieve that is by encouraging SMEs and other congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore businesses to have the confidence to create jobs. 45WH SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 46WH

Huw Irranca-Davies: My hon. Friend makes a valid for funding that will help them develop their technologies. point about the strategic importance to SMEs of Those include, for example, the Centre for Defence procurement. Does he agree that there are practical Enterprise, the Technology Strategy Board, and the things we can work through? Will he pay tribute to various business funding streams available from the Bangor university, which is working with SMEs and the Welsh Government. We cannot talk about SMEs and Welsh Government to, for example, reduce 50-page procurement in the public sector without looking at contract tendering documents to as few as 10 pages? We examples such as EDGE UK and seeing what we can can see that those things can be done, and will create learn and apply. For every General Dynamics success jobs through SMEs. story and every EDGE UK there is someone in Wales, or somewhere in Britain—perhaps a micro-business Chris Evans: I agree, and there was a discussion about employing five people, such as a painter and decorator— that this morning in another place. who is desperate to get hold of a contract: to paint a From my constituency experience of micro-businesses, council house or school building. That is because those such as painters and decorators, they make their money are what I like to term Bank of England contracts—they from painting council houses, school buildings and will not fall apart under someone’s feet, and they will hospitals; but they must jump through rings of fire to not walk away: the business owner knows they will get get through the procurement process. I pay tribute to the money at the end of the day. When there are the work that Bangor university and the Welsh Government businesses that pay their bills late, access to contracts of are doing to reduce the paperwork that SMEs must go that kind is vital. through. That paperwork turns them away from a vital I find it frustrating that, as my hon. Friend the source of income, because of the complexity of the Member for Ogmore mentioned in an intervention, system. people have to wade through 50 pages of tendering I was interested when my hon. Friend the Member documents. The time and money that goes into public for Ogmore mentioned procurement examples in the contracts makes it harder and harder for small and food sector, and I want to touch on another example of micro-businesses to tender for them. The process costs best practice, which I am pleased to say comes from my money that is precious to them, and they become caught constituency. It concerns the defence and security industry, in a vicious cycle. They have no money for the tender, which is a massive industry for us. We are lucky in but they need to tender to make money. The fact that Islwyn that we have General Dynamics UK, which the Government are willing to promote the tendering moved there specifically because of a Ministry of Defence process, but allow companies to get stuck in a system contract. It has access to markets and cutting-edge where they cannot get hold of contracts, is a bit of a technology that can be used by small businesses. I am hare-brained scheme. On a recent visit to Axiom delighted that the EDGE UK facility is in Oakdale at Manufacturing Services, a successful manufacturer in the moment. It does an incredible amount of work with my constituency, the frustration of the situation was SMEs, helping them to get access to defence and security pointed out to me. First, no help is provided with filling markets nationally and internationally. Not only that, in the contracts: the business does not know what is but its modus operandi protects the intellectual property being looked for in the tender. Secondly, feedback is of the SME and ensures buy-in from all sides, offering rarely given to those who are unsuccessful, so it is not clear benefits to both parties. If the Minister wants to possible to move on and improve processes the next see an example of innovation in the procurement process, time. she has an open invitation to come to Islwyn and to To return to the 25% aspiration, let me say that now Oakdale. I shall be happy to show her round; I think she is the time for a coherent Government plan. Since I will find it is a beautiful constituency. entered the House I have often heard the accusation Anyone who has dealt with SMEs will say how important that all the Opposition do is oppose everything, but I it is for them to work with larger companies, retain their want to set out concrete plans, and I hope the Minister intellectual property and win new business in the market. will listen to five points. First, there should be agreement EDGE UK is appreciated by the customers of General by Government that procurement will be used as an Dynamics UK, including the Ministry of Defence, as it engine of economic growth. I do not mean central helps those with a niche capability from SMEs who Government but all levels of government, including usually cannot get access to the customer. Through councils and the NHS. Secondly, a border line should EDGE UK General Dynamics works with an average be established and we need to set a target in stone. If of 50 SMEs a year, constantly seeking out and reviewing 25% is too high, and is just an aspiration, we need to innovative developments. I know from speaking with bring the target down; but we need to begin achieving people from General Dynamics that it is always keen to targets, and they need to be measurable. attend business events, to expand awareness of EDGE Thirdly—and I must return to the example of General UK through the SME community, and to invite new Dynamics UK and EDGE UK for this—every company SMEs to talk about ways they can engage with a with more than a certain number of employees, in company through EDGE UK. I remind all those with receipt of a Government contract, needs to produce a small businesses, if any of them are watching the debate— training plan and an apprenticeship scheme, to enable hopefully on television on a Sunday morning—that young people to get on the ladder, so that skills and they have an open invitation to get involved with EDGE training will improve. That cannot be put in place at UK, and to get access to its innovation and capability. It zero cost. is fantastic. Fourthly, we should take a leaf from the book of Not every SME can work with General Dynamics, of General Dynamics UK and use procurement to encourage course. Products may need maturing. EDGE UK provides innovation, allowing bidders to come up with new, fresh support to such SMEs, to help them identify avenues ideas. That should be in the tendering process. My fifth 47WH SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 48WH

[Chris Evans] “awarded to small and medium-sized enterprises”. Regrettably, that 25% target did not last long. It has point relates to what I said before about Axiom. There been downgraded, rather like our credit rating, and is is a need for help from public bodies, for contracts to be now merely an aspiration. Last month, the Prime Minister’s designed in a way that allows SMEs to compete. We enterprise adviser, Lord Young, said that he was need standard contracts across the board. We also need “not convinced that the value of SMEs is being fully exploited a helpline or someone in Government, in the Department across the whole public sector.” for Business, Innovation and Skills; at Axiom I discussed I think that we can all agree with him. bringing troubleshooters in. There is a need for a crack team that can be called free and told, “I need help to fill I am sure that the Minister will tell us that procurement this contract in.” The Government could send it on. figures for SMEs are up. The Government do not have a particularly good record on statistics, but it is still Those would be innovative processes. However, we depressing to hear the Minister for the Cabinet Office must remember that, without Government will, a limited say that most Departments do not know their spend on number of suppliers will still reinforce their market SMEs and that therefore people “cannot trust the numbers”. share, stifle competition and keep prices high. Government will and action are needed, and I hope that we see that Mark Taylor, the former co-chair of a panel set up to today. advise the Minister for the Cabinet Office on SME procurement, has accused the Government of “recounting” their procurement SME figures. He said that Government 3.30 pm contracts to SMEs were “drying up”, that things were Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): “going backwards” and that SMEs were It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, “finding it more difficult to do business with Government.” Mr Hollobone. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) on securing this Huw Irranca-Davies: Perhaps a way forward is to debate on an important issue that does not attract the replicate the Welsh Government’s approach. They are attention it deserves. As my hon. Friend the Member now asking all their local authorities, the NHS and any for Islwyn (Chris Evans) said, hon. Members from all procurers, to carry out regular procurement fitness checks, parties are aware of the importance of this issue and it including monitoring how many contracts are going would have been fitting if more had attended this out to SMEs. debate. However, important points have been made by hon. Members from both sides of the House. My hon. Chi Onwurah: My hon. Friend raises an excellent Friend the Member for Islwyn said that there was a point that I hoped to make later. It is useful to see Celtic emphasis to the contributions. This is a cross-party, concrete examples of where that is being done successfully, national issue. but the measurement and understanding of procurement Contributions, particularly from my hon. Friend the practices and, most importantly, what the outcomes Member for Islwyn and my hon. Friend the Member for are, particularly for SMEs, is a key way of improving Inverclyde (Mr McKenzie), and the passionate opening the situation. remarks made by my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore, emphasised the importance of procurement What is being done to measure SME procurement in for small and medium-sized enterprises and their importance Government? What is the Minister doing, specifically, to our economy. to stop things from going backwards? Will she confirm that only two Departments have increased SME This has been a remarkably non-partisan debate and procurement spend to any significant degree and that I hope that that will not change too much as I make one of those—the Ministry of Justice—only achieved some remarks on behalf of the official Opposition. If that by including providers of legal aid? there is one thing that all hon. Members agree on, it is that small and medium-sized enterprises are the lifeblood Will the Minister say what concrete action has been of our economy and should be supported. They account taken to increase the proportion of spending with SMEs? for 99.9% of all private sector businesses in the UK, Fine words are all very well, but we want to know what 59.1% of private sector employment and almost half of is actually being done to address this issue, which everyone private sector turnover. agrees is critical. Speeches and leaning on Departments can only go so far. We have all read reports of bloody As has been said, given the economic challenges that battles going on between Departments and the Treasury we face, encouraging small and medium-sized enterprises over spending envelopes in the next Budget. There is a must be a focal point for Government policy as we seek huge power on Departments to use their buying power to find growth again. In short, they are critical to our to cut costs and, unfortunately, that tends to be through economic recovery. Yet still the proportion of public ever-larger contracts. spend on dynamic small and medium-sized enterprises is far too low. As the UK’s biggest single consumer, The Government have spoken many fine words of government must do more to support SMEs across the encouragement to social enterprises, without delivering. country. Most social enterprises are SMEs. The message that I get from social enterprises—I recently held workshops In February 2011, the Prime Minister and the Minister in Newcastle and London—is that often how Government for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General, the right contracts are bundled makes it impossible for them to hon. Member for Horsham (Mr Maude), outlined bid. That is, as we have heard, a general concern among Government procurement reforms at a conference for SMEs. Will the Minister explain what specific actions SME suppliers, where the famous pledge was made that have been taken, and what actions are planned, to “25% of all government contracts” unbundle as many contracts as possible, to level the should be playing field for smaller enterprises? 49WH SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 50WH

Support through direct procurement is not the only too often doing their own thing. We need to see strong leadership way to support SMEs. The previous Labour Government from the Cabinet Office to drive a culture shift across…Whitehall”. introduced the innovative small business research initiative Such complacency is all too common among Ministers. programme to drive innovation through procurement. The CBI survey report recently stated: The SBRI allows small businesses to bid for contracts “Across the board the rate of reform requires more urgency. to provide innovative solutions to procurement problems, The lack of progress on turning sound policy into actual change supporting innovation and small businesses at the same is not only damaging to government and costly to the taxpayer, time. but it also stunts growth.” We in the official Opposition had been calling for Will the Minister now take action to ensure that permanent some time for the programme to be expanded, so we secretaries prioritise and buy into that? Will they visibly were glad when the expansion was agreed to by the start to split major contacts into smaller chunks? Will Treasury.This is good news for innovative SMEs. However, they take steps to record the success or failure of those a recent survey by the Federation of Small Businesses policies? found that nearly 40% of small firms felt that they were Successfully changing the mindset on procurement so being “sidelined” by the Government because of their that we use and support our SMEs more effectively is persistent belief that bigger firms are better. What are an issue that unites the whole House, so will we see the Government doing to address that? decisive Government action so that our ambitions can I turn briefly to the Government’s Contracts Finder, be realised? which I am sure the Minister will address. The value of contracts published on the website each month is still 3.44 pm very small compared with the £15 billion total value of Government procurement contracts that are outsourced The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe each month. Does the Minister agree that more needs Smith): I am grateful to the hon. Member for Ogmore to be done to ensure that contracts are put on the (Huw Irranca-Davies) for initiating this debate on such Contracts Finder system? What is happening on that? an important subject and for setting us off so passionately. As has been echoing around the Chamber this afternoon, What are Ministers doing to ensure that local authorities we share a passion for the same thing: seeing excellent are properly engaged with Contracts Finder? What procurement that serves the customer—in this case, the work are they doing with councils to improve their taxpayer—and promotes growth. I am confident that procurement from SMEs? We have heard of a number every Member here supports those aims and that my of examples from local authorities across England and remarks will outline the action merited by that. Wales that are being very innovative in that respect, and I would like the Minister to say whether she is studying From the outset, the Government have fully recognised what is happening in our local authorities. the vital role that SMEs play in helping us achieve the best possible value for money—in some cases for reasons There are a number of rivalries between cities in the of cost and in others for reasons of innovation, a theme north-east, particularly between Newcastle and Sunderland, that has also rightly reverberated around the Chamber— but as we subsume them within a combined local authority, when we buy goods and services for the citizen, such as I am pleased to say that I can hold up Sunderland city school, hospital or prison meals, wallpaper or any other council as an example of innovative and successful goods or services. work in procurement. In the minutes remaining, I will take the hon. Gentleman’s Indeed, only last night, at the Federation of Small invitation to shatter some myths. Let us do that together Businesses reception, Sunderland city council was praised this afternoon, because he is absolutely right in laying for its intensive engagement with the FSB and local down his support for the theme and in his desire to see suppliers before implementing the Buy Sunderland First increased awareness of what is available for SMEs, of system for quotations below the tender threshold and the ways in which they can grab it and of the ways in the North East Procurement Organisation portal for all which we can hold procurers to account. opportunities above the threshold. Consequently, spend I will start by addressing the goal that, by the end of with north-east businesses now accounts for more than this Parliament, 25% of direct and indirect Government 68% of all third-party spend by Sunderland city council. procurement by value should go to SMEs. Although I What other examples would the Minister like to hold up want to move on to some content that I know will be of for us of ways in which local authorities are successfully great help to every Member when talking to their engaging with small businesses? constituents, I first need to make an overtly political I have asked a number of questions of the Minister. point. I am sad to say that we had to take the bold step My hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore has raised a of setting a 25% aspiration because before that, under number of important points, and my hon. Friends the the previous Government, no effort was made to measure Members for Islwyn and for Inverclyde have made a such things. The lecture I have just received from the number of suggestions. I draw my remarks to a close by Opposition Front-Bench spokesman is more than a saying to the Minister that, although we have seen some little rich in that context. Even a member of the previous small steps forward, the Government’s approach lacks Government has had the dignity to look ahead and say the required urgency. Whether on procurement or bank what we need to do better for SMEs, and I am afraid lending, Ministers across Government are failing SMEs. that I do not think the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman Responding to a recent National Audit Office report is hitting the same heights. on improving Government procurement, the head of After a lot of hard work in 2010, we found out that the CBI said: SME procurement in 2009-10 amounted to 6.5% of all “Two and a half years after the Government committed to procurement, or £3.1 billion—a shamefully low figure centralising public procurement, individual departments are still given that 95% or more of private sector businesses in 51WH SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 52WH

[Miss Chloe Smith] It is a great shame that he and his constituents felt the need for anonymity in that example. I understand entirely, the UK are microfirms, or companies with fewer than but we would all like to live in a world where they did 10 employees. We recognised that something had to be not receive bad service and did not feel the need to hide done to remove the barriers facing many companies it for fear of reprisals. when bidding for Government contracts, and we have We have introduced a mystery shopper service that gone a long way towards removing those barriers. I will will be familiar to anyone who has seen such a thing in work through a couple of points that will help Members supermarkets or reputable businesses throughout the to express that to their constituents, which is one important private sector. It allows poor procurement service to be thing we can do to send the message outwards. identified and acted on. If a supplier encounters poor Over the past three years, we have increased accessibility procurement practice, such as the overly bureaucratic and transparency, identified and addressed poor pre-qualification questionnaire in my hon. Friend’s example, procurement practice and provided practical assistance or unreasonable selection criteria, as in other examples, to help SMEs. I will start with accessibility and transparency. they can refer it anonymously to the mystery shopper We have made contracts smaller and broken them up service, so that we can investigate it on their behalf. under various headings. Some of the finest examples of I encourage and urge all constituency Members to that can be found in information and communications push that information out to SMEs or anybody bidding technology, where historically Governments have been in their constituency for Government work. It is the subject to procurement disasters. We have instead only way that one by one, piece by piece, we can tackle deliberately gone out to approach SMEs for Government that kind of bad practice. It allows us to identify the ICT needs and have had some good successes. We have broader themes that we can perhaps tackle more also set up Contracts Finder to increase accessibility; it systematically, but it also allows us to put right individual is a one-stop shop to enable suppliers to find procurement cases where something has gone wrong. and subcontracting opportunities. They can also find tender documents and contracts online, all free of charge. Jonathan Edwards: Based on what the Minister is I urge anyone listening to or reading this debate to look saying, does she consider the move towards centralising at that. legal aid contracts an example of bad procurement? People will also find online and accessible pipelines of what the Government are looking to procure under a Miss Smith: I suspect that I do not have time to do range of topics. All those kinds of thing help would-be that topic justice and that you would not wish me to go suppliers to know what we are looking for. As I said in there, Mr Hollobone. However, if the hon. Gentleman my opening remarks, we believe in procurement for thinks that it is bad practice, he or anybody else ought growth, and we believe strongly that pipelines can help to enter it into the mystery shopper and see what comes in that endeavour by explaining to industry what this out the other end. We regularly publish the outcomes of very large customer, the Government, are looking for mystery shopper investigations on the gov.uk website, over time. and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will find it easy In the dynamic marketplace, companies can register to use. without cost to provide quick quotes for low-value By 31 May this year, we had received 425 mystery Government contracts below £100,000. That enables shopper cases. Of those that we have closed, a great them to bid and compete at minimal cost alongside majority have had a positive outcome. Once again, I larger suppliers. I recognise the points made this afternoon encourage all constituency Members to ensure that about the cost of bidding. We are doing something their constituents are aware of it. about that. On the other side of the deal, what does that give customers—Departments and the taxpayers whom Huw Irranca-Davies: Briefly, and in case the Minister they represent? It gives us cost-effective access to pre- does not touch on these two issues, what are the UK registered Government suppliers and allows bids to be Government doing in terms of the threshold for advertising issued and responded to electronically, which again on the web? The Welsh Government have moved to makes the procurement process quicker and more effective. advertising any contract of more than £25,000 on the On the theme of transparency, I also note that we web. Also, what are the UK Government doing to have established a Crown representative for SMEs, which reduce the insurance and turnover thresholds to break I know will be of great interest to the hon. Member for down more barriers for SMEs? Islwyn (Chris Evans), who wanted to know where SMEs could turn for help. There is a Crown representative in Miss Smith: On the first question, all central Government Government especially for the purpose of giving SMEs contracts of more than £10,000 must be advertised on a voice at the table. That is vital, and we have done it. Contracts Finder; I am sure that those who have their We have also set up an SME panel to provide a regular smartphones out will find it a helpful source of information. forum for SMEs to raise the issues that concern them The second question brings me to a point that I shall most and hold our feet to the fire. I assure the hon. make later. We need to leave some areas of professional Gentleman that the SMEs on that panel do so. I have competence for the contractors themselves. It may be been there, and I have enjoyed meeting the panel very under the headings that the hon. Gentleman mentioned. much. There are instances in which a particular contractor will Moving on to tackling poor procurement practice, we need to find particular characteristics that suit their have heard a couple of good examples in this debate, procurement. particularly from my hon. Friend the Member for High I turn to a couple of other points that have been Peak (Andrew Bingham), who spoke about a wallpaper made. Hon. Members have asked for there to be ways of supplier in his constituency. I will start with that example. giving feedback to unsuccessful bidders. We have used 53WH SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)11 JUNE 2013 SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) 54WH the mystery shopper to provide that in some cases; I am who we are procuring for, as well as shaping the market. interested in how we can encourage it as a far wider I suggest that fair payment is a way in which we can do practice. I will also give an example of the move away that. from frameworks, another point made earlier. In some I turn to a couple of other points about assistance to cases, it can be an instance of poor procurement practice SMEs. Hon. Members have spoken about the small when frameworks are used inappropriately. They can business research initiative, under which we have provided certainly be a blunt instrument. I point hon. Members more opportunities within Government for SMEs. To to the example of the G-Cloud, a way that we are address a further point made by the hon. Member for procuring for IT across Government that has done Islwyn, we have also produced a series of “top tips” away with frameworks entirely. There are many more videos that help SMEs and voluntary organisations such examples. pitch for Government business. Again, he should get PQQs, or pre-qualification questionnaires, are out his smartphone right now and find out how good undoubtedly a burden to small and medium-sized those videos are. businesses. To address that, we have eliminated their use On how the measures are giving results, I should say in 15 of 17 Departments for all central Government that direct spend with SMEs across Government has procurements under the EU threshold of £100,000. The increased from the paltry 6.5% when we took office to two Departments still using PQQs are doing so only for 10% in 2011-12. We will shortly announce, two years security reasons. on, the results of our efforts in that area. SMEs have also benefited from a further 6% in indirect spend through the supply chain in 2011-12, meaning that Andrew Bingham: Will the Minister give way? spend with SMEs across Government has increased steadily since 2010. Miss Smith: I am terribly sorry, but I need to finish Looking ahead, we must keep up the pressure on some points before I run out of time. For procurements Departments. The hon. Member for Newcastle upon that still require a PQQ, we have introduced a much Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) will be delighted to know simpler standard set of questions that reduces the burden that I am personally scrutinising plans from Departments on suppliers. to increase their spend with SMEs and sharing them On late payment, we recognise that being paid promptly with the Prime Minister throughout. We have appointed is vital to enabling SMEs to manage their cash flows. SME champions to do so at ministerial and official Again, we have addressed that by making Government levels in all Departments. a fair payment champion. We have a policy of paying Hon. Members will also be pleased to know that we 80% of undisputed invoices within five days and ensuring are working closely with the Department for Business, that prime contractors also pay suppliers in tier 2 within Innovation and Skills to ensure that unified advice is 30 days. We expect our suppliers to follow that example. available to SMEs. To conclude, we are aware of the My hon. Friend the Member for High Peak briefly recommendations in Lord Young’s work, and I want to mentioned the fact that Government can end up paying do more to support growth with SMEs throughout the through the nose for procurement. I make the point in public sector. passing that we are one of the best clients going. I think Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair): All good things that the hon. Member for Islwyn said that, actually, we must come to an end. I thank all the hon. Members who have some of the best credit available as a Government took part in that most interesting and illuminating purchaser. We can take advantage of that and get debate, and ask those who are not staying to leave results for the taxpayer, which is crucial because that is quickly and quietly. 55WH 11 JUNE 2013 Prepayment Meters 56WH

Prepayment Meters My other concern and the main point of today’s debate is how that relates specifically to some of the 4pm poorest in our society who have to rely on prepayment meters. If someone is on a direct debit tariff, that may Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): I am pleased to be be fine, but if they are on a prepayment meter, for able to appear under your chairmanship this afternoon, example, they will still be stuck on a higher tariff, since Mr Hollobone. those tariffs are generally higher than the ones that The debate came about because, on Report, I tabled would be available to someone who is paying by direct amendments to the Energy Bill on the Government’s debit. If the Government are truly intent on ensuring new proposals to help consumers with their energy bills. that everyone has the lowest possible bill, they need to Unfortunately, my amendments were not discussed due ensure that the requirement applies not only within the to lack of time, but there are serious issues relating to type of contract that the customers already have, but to the new powers and to prepayment meters in particular. allow them to move to a cheaper type of contract. Under what was new clause 13, powers would be There are particular problems with prepayment meters. taken to allow the regulator to require It has always seemed to be slightly perverse that this is “licence holders to change the domestic tariffs or other terms of one of the few examples in which consumers end up domestic supply contracts so as to reduce the costs to their paying much more by paying cash in advance. domestic customers for supplies of gas or electricity.” However, what was then subsection (3)(e) provides Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the “for requiring a licence holder to change the domestic tariff or hon. Gentleman on bringing this important matter other supply contract terms on which it supplies gas or electricity before the House for consideration. I have been dealing to a domestic customer by— with a number of constituents who have had similar (i) switching to a different domestic tariff or different supply problems with the tariffs for, for example, oil. Does he contract terms, unless the customer objects, or think that other options might be necessary, not only (ii) offering the customer, or inviting the customer to switch to, for oil but for gas, so that people can switch, whatever a different domestic tariff or different supply contract terms.” the fuel that provides their heating? If we do not enable My problem is with sub-paragraph (ii). that, fuel poverty will continue to grow. I fully appreciate that the Minister may argue that consumers should be given the maximum amount of Mr Weir: The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. I choice and should be empowered to make their own have often talked about oil, though it might be outwith decisions, but the plain fact of the matter is that, as we the terms of today’s debate, but I take his point, which all know and as is remarked on in the regulatory impact is very true. assessment of the Bill, there is a huge amount of inertia The issue of prepayment meters is important. Citizens among energy consumers, in particular those who remained Advice Scotland issued a report on energy recently, with their former monopoly supplier after privatisation. showing that citizens advice bureaux had dealt with If the provision in the Bill remains as it is, there is a real 7,400 people with 9,500 different energy issues in 2011-12; danger that companies might take the second option of those, 83% related to difficulties with paying or debt. and make an offer to the consumer. We are then faced The report stated that with the issue of what form that offer might take. “the cases highlighted by bureaux regarding difficulty paying are We already receive a huge amount of paper from our most commonly with regards to prepayment meters recouping an energy providers. As well as bills, we get special offers unaffordable amount for arrears every time the consumer tops and offers to take on maintenance of domestic appliances, up.” drains, pipes, electrics and whatever else. We also get The problem with prepayment meters is not only that invitations to take up different ways to pay our bills, the tariff tends to be higher—to be fair, things are better especially if the providers have not yet signed us up to a than they used to be, and many companies now fix at direct debit; once we have direct debits, they make the standard tariff, although this is higher than the regular attempts to increase the amount we are paying tariffs that can be achieved on, for example, direct by direct debit—amounts that sometimes bear no relation debit—but that many, though not all, of those on to how much energy we actually use. Now, too, we get prepayment meters are put on them because they have a annual and regular energy statements. That is all useful, debt, and part of that debt is recouped every time the but how many of our constituents really take the time consumer tops up the meter. The costs of installation to go through that mountain of information, and how can also be added to the debt, meaning that consumers many just put it in the recycling bin with all the other are pushed further into debt. junk mail? The first option, however, is straightforward: if consumers Meters tend to be used when a consumer is already are on a contract or supply terms that are not the best, struggling. The perverse effect is that if people are they can be automatically transferred to a better deal, already struggling to keep up with payments on the unless they make the specific decision not to do so. That cheapest tariff, such as an online one paid by direct seems to have a better chance of fulfilling the Prime debit, should they fall into difficulties—perhaps they Minister’s promise to ensure that every customer is on lose their job or become ill, or for any of a vast number the lowest tariff. Of course, the situation would have to of reasons—they end up being put on an even more be monitored, to ensure that the energy company is expensive tariff, which simply deepens their difficulties. indeed offering the lowest tariff, but that can be addressed by Ofgem and to an extent by the provisions of subsection Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): I congratulate the hon. (5) of what was the new clause. I am interested to hear Gentleman on making a fine point. Does he agree that, what Ministers have to say about that point. with prepayment meters, we now have the grotesque 57WH Prepayment Meters11 JUNE 2013 Prepayment Meters 58WH example of people cutting themselves off by not paying Prepayment meters also have the problem of self- beforehand, rather than waiting for the fuel companies disconnection, as the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel to cut them off? Williams) said. If people cannot afford to heat their homes, they simply do not put money in the meter. Mr Weir: The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent There is no active disconnection by the energy company, point, and I shall come on to discuss that issue shortly. but the end effect is the same. That applies not just in The report from the Scottish CAB cites the case of a Scotland but throughout the UK. The hon. Gentleman single parent with two children who loses £7 towards raised the issue in relation to Wales, but Stratford-on-Avon arrears every time she puts £10 in the meter, and the and district citizens advice bureau has contacted me £3 left is entirely insufficient to heat her home. What about it. It takes issue with the term “self-disconnection”, chance has she of ever getting out of the cycle of debt, making the valid point that it implies an element of or even of keeping her home warm? choice. It also makes the point that in a harsh winter the loss of power to homes is national news—even during When the debate was announced, Barnardo’s got in the spring this year it was national news—yet the plight touch with me and mentioned the problem, expressing of prepayment meter users, who must endure a regular its concerns that the Government’s plans to simplify the loss of supply in both summer and winter because they charging system will still allow fuel companies to charge cannot afford to buy credit, goes largely unnoticed. higher prices for those who pay for their electricity and gas through prepayment meters rather than through Stratford-on-Avon and district citizens advice bureau direct debit. Barnardo’s quoted research showing that told me that it has worked with other citizens advice vulnerable households in or on the margins of poverty bureaux and other organisations in its area to conduct a are forced to pay through their energy bills an extra survey of prepayment users. It found that, as I have £1.1 billion a year above those on high incomes. A key said, the exclusion of people from the best deals is reason for that is that such households often have to opt clearly part of the problem, but it also noted that a for a higher-cost payment method. worrying number of people do not understand how they are charged when they have such a meter. Those Interestingly, the energy companies often argue that who move into a property where there is already a the costs of providing and servicing prepayment meters prepayment meter inherit an unfair system. They may are higher than for other payment methods, but Barnardo’s quickly get into difficulties through no fault of their cites the example of what it refers to as the “reasonable own and they often cannot afford to change the system cost” of the Northern Ireland keypad, which shows that they inherit. prepayment meters do not necessarily have to involve a large premium. I am not familiar with the Northern Citizens Advice Scotland also raised that point and Ireland system, but the Minister might want to investigate noted that many consumers are caught unawares by it. standing charges, so debt may accumulate in periods when they are using very little energy and impact upon Jim Shannon: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? them when they start to use it again in the winter months. It quotes the case of a client who is having 70% Mr Weir: We might get some information from the of each payment taken to meet those charges. Surely it hon. Gentleman. is high time that action was taken to end such charges. Citizens Advice Scotland adds that when consumers Jim Shannon: The hon. Gentleman and I discussed are in receipt of benefits, energy suppliers should recognise this matter before and, if anyone heard my phone that they face additional payment difficulties and take going, that was a text coming through to confirm the action to support them, especially given the significant issue: the administrative costs in Northern Ireland are ongoing changes in the benefit system. In particular, less, which is why it is cheaper than on the mainland. If suppliers should monitor usage, particularly among the keypad system in Northern Ireland can be cheaper, prepayment consumers, and take proactive action if perhaps that needs to be looked at. there is evidence of self disconnection. I have been contacted by the StepChange debt charity, which has Mr Weir: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that pointed out that an increasing number of over-60s are clarification. Ofgem should certainly be looking at in fuel poverty because of rising prices, and that that that matter, and perhaps the Minister will encourage it number is substantially higher than in other age groups. along that route. Citizens Advice recommended that prepayment meters Barnardo’s also makes the point that the reason that should be fixed at the supplier’s cheapest tariff. I fully many people use such meters is that they do not have support that and urge the Minister to take it up with the access to a bank account to take advantage of direct energy companies and, if necessary, introduce amendments debit payment. That is undeniably true, but it is also to the Energy Bill in the other place to make it happen. true that it is almost impossible for many people in such He did not accept my amendments when they were situations to get a bank account, since, frankly, the offered to him, but I will not take offence if he introduces main banks are not interested, and many of them now his own. That would help to ensure that customers who seem to be moving to charging for current accounts, have difficulty paying for energy and use prepayment which is hardly likely to help. Barnardo’s calls upon the meters as a budgeting tool are not penalised for doing Government to extend the Post Office card account to so, and that customers with arrears are not pushed allow payment of bills by direct debit, which I understand further into debt by the additional costs of installing a was promised in the coalition agreement. I appreciate prepayment meter and of paying a higher tariff. that this may be outwith the Minister’s remit today, but I would go even further. I sought in my amendments that could be considered when introducing the universal to put a cap on the amount of any payment into the credit. meter that can be used to meet accumulated debt. I 59WH Prepayment Meters11 JUNE 2013 Prepayment Meters 60WH

[Mr Weir] primarily by increases in the wholesale price of gas. There is a direct correlation not between the sympathy suggested 20%, but in the example I quoted earlier 70% that the Government of the day feel for the fuel-poor was being taken and we should agree that 70% is totally and the rhetoric they employ, but between the wholesale unacceptable in such circumstances. cost of gas and the price of energy that people must pay. When alluding briefly to my amendments last Monday, We must do more to decouple that link and to cushion the Minister’s colleague, the Minister of State, Department consumers from the international gas markets. for Business, Innovation and Skills, the right hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon), said that he was not in Mr Weir: I do not disagree with what the Minister favour of a specific percentage because that could mean has said so far. He is correct about what is driving rising that people would continue to pay towards the debt fuel prices, but does that not make it imperative that the over the summer months when they use little gas. However, Government adopt the little things I suggested to ameliorate as I said, because of the operation of standing charges the situation? It is all very well talking about wholesale on prepayment meters, debts continue to increase over gas prices, but it is the people at the sharp end who are that period whether energy is being used or not, so that suffering them. My suggestions would not solve the argument does not hold water. He also stated that it problem, but they would ameliorate the situation for would take a long time for a family to get out of debt. those vulnerable people. The problem with that approach is that people on low incomes cannot ever get to the stage of being able to heat their homes properly, leading to ever greater difficulty. Gregory Barker: The hon. Gentleman made several points that I hope to cover, but I want to set out the It may take much longer to pay off the debt, but it is framework and the context in which we must operate. surely better to accept that in an age of ever-increasing Of the 3.2 million fuel-poor households in England in energy bills—few of us believe that they will fall significantly 2011, around 20% paid for their electricity and 24% in the foreseeable future—we must make a much greater paid for their gas with prepayment meters. Many hon. effort to help those who are in genuine difficulties, and Members and certainly members of the public will be accept that when people have got into difficulties the surprised that the figure is so low, because there is often arrears simply must be paid off over a much longer an assumption that “fuel-poor” and “prepayment meter” period. It is imperative to ensure that people can heat are synonymous. In fact, only a relatively small number their homes and cook their food, and are not subject to of the fuel-poor—20%—are on prepayment meters. having no energy because they cannot afford to put Prepayment meters enable customers to monitor and credit on the meter. control their energy expenditure in a direct and immediate Will the Minister consider whether that is a sensible way and, as a last resort, they can be a valuable alternative way of dealing with an increasing problem? If he followed to disconnection for non-payment of bills. up some of my suggestions, it might help the Prime Minister to fulfil his promise to ensure that everyone is Where prepayment meters are installed to recover a put on the lowest tariff. debt, that element of a customer’s payment must be set at a level that takes into account their ability to pay. The hon. Gentleman rightly says that there must be an 4.15 pm equitable balance in such situations between debt repayment and the real ongoing needs of a household to cook, to The Minister of State, Department of Energy and heat the home to a safe level and to light the premises, Climate Change (Gregory Barker): I congratulate the particularly where there are children, or elderly or vulnerable hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir) on securing this people. It is understandable that he seeks a cap for debate on fuel poverty and the use of prepayment weekly payments. Customers in debt repay a fixed amount meters. He is an acknowledged champion in this place at fixed intervals—for example, weekly. The amount of the fuel-poor, and from my time on the Select Committee repaid is calculated for each customer based on their on Environmental Audit I know of his personal personal circumstances and their ability to pay. He commitment and professional expertise. Whenever he asked what would happen if their circumstances changed. speaks on the subject, we listen carefully and thoughtfully In those cases, customers should talk to their supplier even if we do not always agree. I reassure him that the about the change and how it may impact on their ability coalition Government are committed to helping hard- to repay debt. working families and consumers with the rising cost of living. We recognise that the rising cost of energy is I recognise that a percentage repayment, such as 20% currently one of the biggest worries for householders. of the amount spent, may feel fairer, and that fixed The modest fall in the number of households living in payments can be a blunt instrument, but there are two fuel poverty was confirmed in April. The latest figures sides to the coin. There is a risk that setting a percentage show that in 2011, 4.5 million households in the UK limit may create a floor rather than a ceiling. It may were in fuel poverty. That was a slight decrease from encourage suppliers to use the limit as the automatic 4.75 million in 2010, which saw the first fall in the default position rather than, as they do now, individualised number of fuel-poor since 2004. Throughout the last payment plans, which are surely in everyone’s interest. Parliament and for a couple of years before, there was The hon. Gentleman makes the valid point that in an inexorable increase in the number of fuel-poor. some cases customers may feel that they are set an Despite the modest falls, encouraging as they are, there inappropriately high debt recovery level. If that is is absolutely no room for complacency. The figure is the case, they need to speak to their supplier. If that still far too high and we are honest enough to realise does not satisfy them, they should speak to Ofgem or that some of the problem is beyond the Government’s the energy saving advice service, which is run by the control. The steady growth in the number was driven Government, for further advice on what to do. 61WH Prepayment Meters11 JUNE 2013 Prepayment Meters 62WH

Mr Weir: Does the Minister not accept that if Citizens to pay. That is a point of universal agreement. Prepayment Advice Scotland is coming across rates of 70%, where meters also enable customers to monitor and control £7 in every £10 goes towards paying down the arrears, their energy expenditure, and smart meters will play a something is seriously wrong? It is not just one case; valuable additional role. Citizens Advice Scotland cites several. That cannot be right. Hywel Williams: Will the Minister give way?

Gregory Barker: I agree with the hon. Gentleman Gregory Barker: I will, but I am running out of time that it does not seem right, but I am not aware that it is and I had hoped to answer more of the points that have the norm; it is the exception and if he is aware of such been raised. cases, I encourage him to take them up. I want to know more about the individual circumstances of the household Hywel Williams: I will be very brief. Understandably, and how the debt built up to such a level. We cannot the Minister has so far talked about the individual have a situation where we ignore moral hazard and consumer. Does he commend the Welsh Assembly for certain households do not feel an obligation to repay including a specific fuel poverty reduction target in debt, because that penalises and is unfair to those on their campaign to reduce poverty in general in Wales by low incomes who struggle to pay their electricity and 2020? Wouldthat be a course of action for his Government? heating bills on time. We simply cannot give away heating when their next-door neighbours are struggling Gregory Barker: We do not just have a target; we have hard to do the right thing and pay the bills. There is a a legally binding obligation to deal with fuel poverty. In balance of fairness to be met. common with many other people, I have a slight degree of target fatigue, because targets do not get rid of fuel Jim Shannon: In an intervention, I made a point poverty: action, policy and committing to take measures about the administrative costs of the keypad system in and following them through get rid of fuel poverty. I am Northern Ireland. It is cheaper than the system on the slightly sceptical that setting more targets is a good way UK mainland in England and Wales. Is the Minister of addressing something. The previous Government prepared to consider that system? If we could reduce had a target, and fuel poverty relentlessly rose during administrative costs, it would be a factor in the saving the last Parliament. We need a Government who are for the consumer. committed to real solutions in the real world, and that is the hallmark of this coalition. Gregory Barker: I would be more than willing to do Given the levels of concern over the payment method, that. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will be kind enough I am pleased that 80% of the fuel-poor do not pay for to write to me with his particular proposal, or the their energy via prepayment meters, and I do not want example he thinks best illuminates the case. Prepayment those households to find themselves subsidising others, meters obviously have a cost. Ofgem estimates that it either intentionally or unintentionally. The coalition costs £88 more than paying by direct debit. If there is a shares the concerns of the hon. Member for Angus cheaper alternative model for prepayment meters in about the remaining 20% of the fuel-poor who pay for Northern Ireland, I, for one, would be extremely interested their energy through prepayment meters. in looking at it. Since 2010, most suppliers have chosen to equalise The hon. Member for Angus mentioned the Prime their prepayment tariffs with standard credit prices, Minister’s commitment to put everyone on the best which is a major step forward. In the current system, deal, but that deal must be cost-reflective. As I said, it licence conditions require suppliers to take into account costs more to put people on prepayment meters. Ultimately, the consumer’s ability to repay when setting instalments with only 20% of the fuel-poor, roughly speaking, on to repay gas and/or electricity debt. That allows consumers prepayment meters, we should not see them as a good or their advocates to come to an individual agreement thing. In an ideal world, no one would be on a prepayment with suppliers that fits their circumstances. meter. We do not want to create such an attractive Clear communication is the key to compliance. situation that more people opt to go to a prepayment An assessment of a customer’s ability to repay a debt meter. should be verified through direct customer contact or One of the exciting developments in technology is the through a third party, such as the citizens advice bureaux, advent of smart meters, which will considerably change which do such brilliant work. It is clearly important the ability of consumers to interact with suppliers and that consumers know how much they are repaying each will enable suppliers to have a much better relationship week and when the debt will be repaid. The average with consumers. Consumers will be empowered to make level of debt owed by dual fuel consumers in 2011 was better choices of tariff and how they pay. Obviously, it £728, so a family with an average level of debt agreeing will be a while before the whole country has smart to repay the debt at £5 a week on top of their consumption meters, but we are determined that our smart meter would know that the debt would be cleared within two programme should cover the entire country by the end years and eight months. Fuel poverty and a customer’s of the decade. Clearly, that leaves some time and we ability to pay their energy costs are among my Department’s cannot ignore what happens in the meantime. top concerns. In many cases, prepayment meters are installed to recover a debt. That element of a customer’s payment Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair): Order. The meter must be set at a level that takes into account their ability has run out, and the debate has to be switched off. 63WH 11 JUNE 2013 Gangmasters Licensing Authority 64WH (Civil Fines) Gangmasters Licensing Authority not do that for the criminal powers, so is it not illogical (Civil Fines) that for criminal powers we say that they apply to the gangmaster population as a whole, yet for civil powers, where one assumes a lower test, we raise the bar and say 4.30 pm that they apply only to gangmasters with more than 250 people working for them? That is at odds not only Stephen Barclay (North East Cambridgeshire) (Con): with what the Minister said to me this time last year in It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, response to my debate, but with the existing legislation Mr Hollobone. under which the Department is acting. It is also—dare I This time last year, on 20 June 2012, I held a debate say it?—at odds with common sense, because if we look on the Gangmasters Licensing Authority, and the then at the use of criminal powers, we see that it is clearly not Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for South working. East Cambridgeshire (Sir James Paice), who is my Let us take, for example, two recent cases in Northern constituency neighbour, assured the House that he had Ireland. In those cases, the fines imposed on the gangmasters “a package of proposed changes to the GLA, including…looking acting illegally and making large sums of money—often, at the scope to use civil penalties.” gangmasters are not paying tax, and quite often they Indeed, he very kindly went on to say that I was right in are linked to other crime, such as prostitution and calling for the ability to fine gangmasters. He said that counterfeiting—were just £500 apiece. I think that most the GLA board had “very few enforcement weapons” hon. Members would accept that the profits that those and that we needed gangmasters had made far exceeded the fines that were “a tier of measures for it to utilise.”—[Official Report, 20 June imposed by the courts. We have a strange situation in 2012; Vol. 546, c. 276WH.] which we have criminal powers, which the GLA rarely It therefore may surprise the House and you, Mr Hollobone, uses. If a gangmaster is unlucky enough to be caught, to learn that despite the Minister’s saying that that they know that the fine is likely to be less than the analysis was right, the Department’s own consultation profits that they have made. They know that, on most now specifically excludes the tier of measures to which occasions, witnesses are very fearful of coming forward my right hon. Friend was referring. and therefore the number of prosecutions is very low. Last year, for example, there were just 15 prosecutions We should remind ourselves of what is at stake. I am against gangmasters. very pleased to see my hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (David Morris) in his place. Let us put that in context. We currently have under He will know that the GLA was set up in 2004 after the way—I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend the tragedy of the Morecambe bay cockle pickers disaster. Home Secretary for the support that she has given—an He has spoken most effectively in bringing these issues operation in the fens, which my hon. Friend the Member to the attention of the House previously. We are talking for Peterborough (Mr Jackson) will be familiar with, about legislation that is directed at protecting the most Operation Pheasant. So far, it has raided 80 homes and vulnerable people in society and particularly those working it has a number of live inquiries, but it is finding the in the agricultural sector. In many cases, they are a long most horrendous issues. We had a case recently in way from home, have difficulties with the language and Whittlesey in which migrant labour was living in a are fearful of authority. They are therefore vulnerable house and there was CCTV not just on the front and people who do need protecting. back doors but in the inside rooms in order that the It is remarkable that the consultation brought forward gangmaster could control his labour force. We have had by the Department seems to be excluding the measure other cases of people living in a garage with an open that the Minister, in response to my debate last year, sewer. said was an important tool that was lacking and needed This is an issue not just for the vulnerable in communities to be included. It may be helpful if I set out why I think such as mine and that of my hon. Friend the Member that the Department has got itself into this situation. I for Peterborough but for the local residents, because think that it is in large measure down to another ministerial where there are high concentrations of houses in multiple statement. We all like cross-departmental working, and occupation, there is antisocial behaviour. It is very it is very good that the Department is taking note of difficult for people to stay in the house, so they tend to ministerial statements elsewhere. The Minister of State, go out and street-drink. When they street-drink, we get Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, my urination on people’s front doors. I cited some particularly right hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks (Michael unpleasant and disturbing cases in the debate last year. Fallon), quite rightly articulated concerns about red I will not detain hon. Members by rerunning those, but tape. That is a concern that many hon. Members share. it is very clear that there are issues of antisocial behaviour My right hon. Friend therefore set out a new test: it was and legitimate concerns for the local population that a general rule that new powers to fine should not apply flow back to our unwillingness to tackle gangmasters. to firms with fewer than 250 people. I think that there Therefore, I suggest to the House that the key way in was good logic to bringing in that measure, but it was a which we should be tackling gangmasters is by hitting general rule; it was not absolute. This Minister may them in the area that they are most concerned about. want to clarify the position with his officials. Obviously, That is in their pocket; it is through fines. That is the the measure has been signed off by Ministers, but there way in which we will change their behaviour, so I find it almost seems to be a bit of gold-plating whereby what is remarkable that the consultation from the GLA is excluding a general rule has been applied in absolute terms. a tool that the Minister last year said was important, is Of course, most gangmasters do not employ more gold-plating a legitimate concern of the Minister of than 250 people. Indeed, if they did, the existing powers State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, would be confined just to those above 250, but we do my right hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks, and 65WH Gangmasters Licensing Authority 11 JUNE 2013 Gangmasters Licensing Authority 66WH (Civil Fines) (Civil Fines) applying that in a bizarre and arbitrary way and is is to do something soon, due to the free movement failing to address the legitimate concerns about antisocial directive and the likely immigration of Romanians and behaviour with enforcement, because the criminal tools Bulgarians next year. The Home Secretary has said how that are used are not working. They are rarely applied. important reducing pull factors is, and measures on The fact that there were just 15 prosecutions clearly gangmasters would be part of that portfolio of policies, shows that they are not working. Then when there are so the urgency is very much apparent. prosecutions, the level of the fine is derisory. I say to this Minister that I find the situation quite Stephen Barclay: My neighbour and hon. Friend is disappointing. I, as a Member of Parliament, articulate right; there is urgency. I am sure that he shares my real concerns about things affecting my constituency. frustration for that reason. A number of us have been The Home Secretary acts on those concerns with Operation raising concerns for some time. I secured a debate on Pheasant. We have good support from Cambridgeshire gangmasters last year. I raised concerns in the main police—in the debate last night, I paid tribute to Inspector Chamber. I have been to see the Home Secretary on a Sissons and the work that he is doing. I am keen that my number of occasions. The police inspector came to see local council does more, and I have been in active Lin Homer, the top official of HMRC, with me last discussions to ensure that it uses its powers. I am very year. For cross-departmental government to work, DEFRA sympathetic about the difficulties of resourcing that the needs to come to the party and get involved and the GLA has. We all know that the last Government left us purpose of today’s debate is to draw the consultation with a huge level of debt. Although I believe that the before the Minister more firmly to his attention. I think GLA should be far better resourced—I think that that that the ministerial statement of the Minister of State, would be a good use of the Department’s budget—I am Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, the very sympathetic about the difficulties that the Department right hon. Member for Sevenoaks, has been misinterpreted. faces because of what was inherited. But surely the I hope that the Minister here today can reassure us, answer, if we have a problem in trying to resource it but if not, ultimately I hope that he can address the more, is to make it easier to prosecute—to make it concern of my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough: easier to impose fines, because it is the fines that will what will the Minister’s Department do through the change the behaviour of the gangmasters. GLA to effect change on the ground? If we are to We are not talking about all gangmasters; there are maintain community cohesion, the GLA matters. To perfectly respectable gangmasters, but we know that address the antisocial behaviour that flows from the there are illegal gangmasters and heartbreaking abuses consequences and criminal actions of illegal gangmasters, taking place in my constituency and the constituencies the GLA must be part of the action taken. I therefore of hon. Members across the fens. Unwarranted pressure hope that the Minister can reassure the House that the is being placed on local residents, who often have to comments of his predecessor, my right hon. Friend bear the consequences of the antisocial behaviour that the Member for South East Cambridgeshire, will form flows from the concentration of houses in multiple part of the consultation and the response to tackle occupation and the lack of enforcement against illegal illegal gangmasters operating in the fens. gangmasters, who often misleadingly attract people from overseas. Illegal gangmasters will go to Lithuania for 4.44 pm example and say, “Come to the fens. Youhave a guaranteed job and guaranteed accommodation.” When the workers The Minister of State, Department for Environment, arrive, there is often only one, two or three days’ work Food and Rural Affairs (Mr David Heath): It is a pleasure before they exhaust their savings, are in debt and the to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, gangmasters have control. Mr Hollobone. I congratulate the hon. Member for There are real issues and they were raised last year. North East Cambridgeshire (Stephen Barclay) on securing Other Departments have gripped the problem and acted. the debate. I am pleased to see his colleagues, the hon. The Minister for Housing, my hon. Friend the Member Members for Peterborough (Mr Jackson) and for for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk) is organising a Morecambe and Lunesdale (David Morris) here. I know workshop in the fens, in Wisbech, for councils, so that that they share a common concern about the operation we can share best practice. Other Departments are of gangmasters in their constituencies. acting, but the Department of the Minister who is here It is important that I open by saying how significant today is not. Not only is it not acting, but it is ignoring the operation of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority the assurances that I felt were given to me last year, in is. We need it to work for precisely the reasons that the my interpretation of what the then Minister, my right hon. Member for North East Cambridgeshire set out: hon. Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire to ensure that very vulnerable people are not exploited said. In bringing this debate before the House again, I by criminals—let us be clear, they are criminals—who hope that the Minister here today will look again at his wish to use the opportunities that arise from people consultation and at whether the powers it equips the coming from overseas and finding themselves in a vulnerable GLA with are adequate. If he wants to take this opportunity situation. to announce additional resource for the fens, I will be I would like to respond to the points that the hon. delighted, but if he is not going to do that, what exactly Gentleman made, but also to say a few words about the is he going to do? proposed improvements to the operation of the GLA, which has done and continues to do a great deal of Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): My hon. valuable work, which most people recognise, to protect Friend is making a powerful and fluent case. I pay and enforce the rights of vulnerable workers. Many tribute to his great campaigning work on illegal gangmasters. reviews over recent years, including the farming regulation Does he agree that time is of the essence? The imperative task force and forestry regulation task force, have looked 67WH Gangmasters Licensing Authority 11 JUNE 2013 Gangmasters Licensing Authority 68WH (Civil Fines) (Civil Fines) [Mr David Heath] saving those businesses about £60,000 and enabling GLA resources to be deployed elsewhere to tackle serious at the GLA’s work, and there is general recognition abuses. among stakeholders that the it has been effective in Changes are proposed to the size and constitution of improving working conditions in the regulated sectors. the GLA board, to make it smaller and better able to In recognising the highly valuable work the GLA has provide clear strategic direction for the organisation. done, the reviews have also shown that there is room for The consultation also looks at the scope to introduce improvement, so there is an opportunity to make the civil penalties—exactly the point that the hon. Member GLA a modern enforcement agency that better targets for North East Cambridgeshire made—into the range criminal activities, while applying a light touch elsewhere. of enforcement tools that the GLA has available. That is one of the thrusts of the work we have done. The GLA is a designated regulator under the Regulatory Part of the consultation that is happening at the moment Enforcement and Sanctions Act 2008—the so-called is about how we can take our foot off the pedal in areas RES Act—which permits the use of civil penalties as an where it is not needed, to concentrate resources on the alternative to prosecution in certain circumstances. The areas that the hon. Gentleman has drawn to the attention point that the hon. Gentleman made, and he quite of the House. properly set out exactly why this is an obstacle for us, is Through the employment theme of the red tape challenge, that the sectors that the GLA regulates are overwhelmingly the continuing need for the GLA’s work was endorsed, made up of small and medium-sized enterprises. alongside the need to bring forward measures to ensure The scope for use of civil sanctions in the RES Act is that it can become more focused on the worst excesses constrained by Government policy in that area, and I of worker exploitation in the sectors it regulates. As the recognise immediately that what the hon. Gentleman is hon. Gentleman said, my predecessor, the right hon. asking me to do is to challenge another Department’s Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Sir James policy. I think that is implicit in what he says, but for the Paice), announced, via a written statement to Parliament benefit of the record I want to state that Government a year ago, the range of reforms that would come policy in that area was clearly set out in a written forward. statement to Parliament last November, by the Department The GLA will increase joint working with other for Business, Innovation and Skills Minister, my right agencies involved in stamping out serious organised hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon). crime activities, including human trafficking, money That statement made it clear that, in general, SMEs laundering, tax evasion and other serious organised should not be subject to monetary fines because of the crimes. To enable that increased focus on the serious risk of smaller companies feeling less equipped to challenge criminal elements in the supply of labour to the food the basis for such fines. That is very clear Government and food processing sector, the GLA will modify its policy and if I wished to engage in a dialogue with my processes and deploy its resources in a way that relieves right hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks on the the burden of regulation from highly compliant businesses, issue, we would need to establish why this matter should but targets criminals through improved intelligence be the exception to that rule. gathering. Stephen Barclay: The crux of the matter is in two of the words that the Minister just said: “in general”. My David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con): In colleagues on the Government Benches very much support Carnforth in my constituency, the Morecambe bay hybrid the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Member fishery order is being drafted at the moment. Can he for Sevenoaks. We understand the difficulties of the red assist the legislation to go through quicker? It will tape, but it is this “in general”. What we are saying is enable the licensing and policing of the bay for shellfish that in this instance there is a distinction between the farmers and harvesters and cockle pickers. criminality of gangmasters operating against vulnerable people—the raids are revealing some horrendous and Mr Heath: I am not sure that I am in a position to immoral issues—and the small business owner suffering help with what is presumably private legislation, in that from red tape. It is that distinction that I ask the it is independent of Government processes, but I have Minister to take away, from a cross-departmental point heard what the hon. Gentleman has said. Having such of view, and take up with colleagues. an order in place would clearly benefit his constituents, which is why he has raised it today. I do not blame him Mr Heath: Of course I understand what the hon. for doing so. Gentleman says, and I understand why he is bringing Before that intervention, I was suggesting that in the matter forward in the context of his constituency areas where the experience of GLA enforcement over interest, but I have to say that where there is criminality the years has shown that there is less need for regulation, I believe that criminal sanctions should apply. I want to we can safely remove those currently licensed activities make it absolutely clear that, if the evidence is there, from the scope of regulation and redeploy the resources there should not be the slightest hesitation in bringing a elsewhere. My Department launched a public consultation criminal action. The question of civil sanctions is, in a in April this year on proposed reforms to GLA operations, sense, a reserve position for situations in which a criminal as the hon. Member for North East Cambridgeshire prosecution is inappropriate. said. That consultation includes proposals to exclude some activities that currently require a licence from Stephen Barclay: The Minister is generous in giving the scope of licensing, where evidence suggests that way a second time. The facts speak for themselves—only there is a low risk of exploitation of workers. That 15 prosecutions. For criminal prosecutions a higher proposal would remove about 150 businesses from licensing, standard of evidence is required, and they are therefore 69WH Gangmasters Licensing Authority 11 JUNE 2013 Gangmasters Licensing Authority 70WH (Civil Fines) (Civil Fines) more difficult. They take longer and are more expensive, areas where many labourers work in such schemes, what and we are talking about an organisation with resource the problems are and how we should best deal with constraints. them. For the measure to work, the Minister needs the As I said, I am very happy to look at the matter in the resource. Perhaps I can take him back to his earlier round and to recognise the strength of the arguments, remarks. Yes, in the consultation we are reducing the but I come back to my basic premise, from which I will board—frankly, big deal; it is pretty irrelevant—but not resile: the key change will be to redirect resources as how many investigators from the GLA are covering the GLA is asking us to. That seems to make sense, but Cambridgeshire, Norfolk and Lincolnshire? The figures obviously we must wait for the consultation process to I had, off the record, were very small. Will the Minister end to see whether others agree that we should redirect share the figures with the House? resources in the key areas of serious offences and organised crime. Mr Heath: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I do The GLA itself has been at the forefront of the not have the figures with me and will, therefore, happily reform programme, and last week published its three-year write to him to set out the position. strategy for protecting vulnerable workers, which emphasises I will, in fact, go further than that. I am due in East an intelligence-led, risk-based approach, working closely Anglia tomorrow and I plan to meet with the GLA to in partnership with other agencies. The hon. Gentleman discuss exactly how it operates and how we can help it will know that the GLA is active in many parts of the to operate, so it seems entirely appropriate that we look country, including in the constituencies of the hon. at the resourcing issues. It is not small beer to redirect Gentlemen here today: North East Cambridgeshire, resources from areas where they are deployed to no Morecambe and Lunesdale, and Peterborough. great benefit because they are being used to license The hon. Member for North East Cambridgeshire people who have not the slightest intention of breaking mentioned Operation Pheasant, a multi-agency taskforce the law, and have the track record to show that they do set up to tackle ongoing worker issues in the area. Three not. It seems entirely appropriate to redirect the resource people have been arrested on suspicion of human trafficking to deal with the bad guys, against whom we need to offences in Wisbech, and a diverse team of agencies has collect evidence. been assembled to assist with the operation, with partners I take the point about the difference between criminal including Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, the and civil standards of proof. That is, of course, a factor, Home Office, trading standards, Fenland district council but let me be absolutely clear: I want more criminal and Cambridgeshire fire and rescue. prosecutions. I want to see more people brought before I want to know more about the matter at first hand, a court for their abuses and I want them then to suffer which is one of the reasons why I am going to East the further penalty, where appropriate, of proceeds of Anglia tomorrow to talk directly to GLA officers and crime restitution, so that we get back the money that the partner agencies involved in the joint operation. If they gangmasters have acquired through illicit means. We tell me that there are clear areas in which we have still also need to make it plain that they are not wanted in not dealt effectively with the issues they want us to our agricultural industry.We must deal with them effectively. address, the hon. Gentleman can be assured that I will I do not quarrel at all with the hon. Gentleman’s act on that and take their advice in developing Government point, but I want to ensure that we do this right, and I policy. am working within an overall Government policy that is I believe that the package of reforms that we are resistant to the view that civil sanctions are the appropriate taking forward with the GLA will make the authority means of dealing with small and medium-sized businesses. better able to protect vulnerable workers, while easing That is my difficulty. It is not an insurmountable difficulty, burdens on the majority of businesses, which are compliant but I need to persuade others in Government of the and law-abiding. I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman case. for having given us the opportunity to discuss this Some provisions of the RES Act might be useful to extremely important issue. the operation of the GLA. We have invited views from stakeholders on the usefulness of the measures, and the Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair): I suspect that the public consultation by the Department for Environment, debate has been the best possible pre-briefing for the Food and Rural Affairs remains open until 21 June. I Minister’s visit tomorrow. therefore invite the hon. Gentleman, and others who Question put and agreed to. feel strongly about the matter, to ensure that their views are fed into that consultation process. When we respond to the consultation in due course, it will be helpful for us 4.59 pm clearly to understand, from colleagues who represent Sitting adjourned.

3WS Written Ministerial Statements11 JUNE 2013 Written Ministerial Statements 4WS

The new recovery career services programme is a Written Ministerial vocational, needs-based service, offering the greatest levels of support to those who face the most significant Statements barriers to employment given their medical condition. It provides nationwide specialist employment consultants, a relationship team, a service requirements team and Tuesday 11 June 2013 specialist web-portal access. The recovery career services programme is a collaborative venture between the service charities, Oxfordshire county council and the MOD DEFENCE which is closely aligned with the career transition partnership. It will ensure wounded, injured and sick Defence Recovery Capability personnel are given tailor made support to assist them in competing effectively in the civilian employment market. Further information is available via the website The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark http://www.recoverycareerservices.org.uk. Francois): Today marks the defence recovery capability reaching full operating capability following initial operating The MOD wishes to express its thanks to its charitable capability in 2010. Today also formally launches the partners for their continued support to the defence recovery career services programme which delivers an recovery capability, which has helped to make the individualised career service that assists our wounded, achievement of full operating capability a reality. injured and sick personnel to achieve a sustainable and fulfilling second career. The defence recovery capability ensures that wounded, injured and sick personnel have access to all the key FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE services and resources needed to help them either return to duty or make an effective transition to an appropriately skilled civilian life. This care is delivered across the FCO Spending 2013-14 defence community by the combined efforts of the services and the service charities responding to carefully tailored individual recovery plans setting out a recovery The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth pathway. Affairs (Mr William Hague): In my statement to the The defence recovery capability is a Ministry of Defence House of 10 July 2012, Official Report, column 16WS, I (MOD) led initiative designed to deliver co-ordinated set out the funding allocations for the FCO’s strategic support to wounded, injured and sick service personnel. programmes for the financial year 2012-13. I now wish This is delivered in partnership with Help for Heroes to inform the House of the FCO’s spending plans for and the Royal British Legion and is supported by other financial year 2013-14, together with further information service charities and organisations. This capability is on how we will deploy the funds effectively. underpinned by substantial financial investment by both As part of the 2010 spending review settlement, and the MOD and its partners, Help for Heroes and the in support of the Government’s commitment to reduce Royal British Legion; this represents the largest single the deficit, the FCO’s budget is being reduced in real charitable contribution to the armed forces community terms year on year. Further budget reductions have in British history. been made in announcements at the last two autumn Each person who is supported by the defence recovery statements and the Budget. In total this has reduced the capability will get an individual tailored recovery plan, FCO’s budget for 2013-14 by £26 million more than was which integrates all aspects of recovery including medical anticipated in the 2010 spending review. care, welfare, housing, education, re-skilling, work placements, employment issues and opportunities to In order to live within reduced budget allocations, either return to duty or transition to civilian life. savings are required from all parts of the FCO budget. The FCO is committed to increasing efficiency and is The personnel recovery centres have been designed to on track to deliver £100 million of administrative savings create a military style environment where our personnel by 2015. can recover. They are located at Catterick, Colchester, Edinburgh, Plymouth, Sennelager in Germany, Tidworth BBC World Service and the British Council are also and the Battle Back Centre in Lilleshall. These centres funded from the FCO budget and represent around one facilitate and conduct recovery activities in support of quarter of the FCO expenditure in 2013-14. At the individual recovery plans. The Battle Back Centre uses Budget, the Chancellor announced that all unprotected adaptive sport and adventurous training as a vehicle to areas of Government spending would be cut by 1%. help wounded, injured and sick personnel focus on Spending on overseas development is protected. In line what they can do through the multi-activity courses with this, FCO funding in 2013-14 to BBC World that are run there. Service will reduce by £2.22 million and to the British Complex or lengthy cases are transferred to personnel Council by £0.6 million. recovery units which are in key locations around the Specifically on the BBC World Service, we will be country and deliver high-quality command and care in working closely to review its proposals for investments order to gain the right outcome for the individual and in World Service TV in Afghanistan, Burma and Somalia, the MOD. Personnel are allocated a personnel recovery with an expectation that additional programme funds officer as their military point of contact who will provide of £0.5 million will be made available in 2013-14. Looking support throughout the period of recovery while in forward, we will shortly agree with the BBC Trust the service. BBC World Service operating licence objectives, targets 5WS Written Ministerial Statements11 JUNE 2013 Written Ministerial Statements 6WS and priorities, which will come into force from April for Democracy; we will maintain our scholarships 2014 when the BBC World Service moves to licence fee programme, offering outstanding scholars with leadership funding. potential from around the world the opportunity to The funds allocated to our strategic programmes are study in the UK; we will work with DFID in support of also falling over the four-year SRIO period to reflect the Arab Partnership participation programme; and we these financial constraints. Allocations for financial will maintain our commitment to the overseas territories. year 2013-14 take into account the changing nature of Our policy programme evaluation board, which is some of our programmes and the greater operating chaired by a non-executive member, will monitor and efficiency with which they need to be delivered. evaluate our strategic programmes throughout the year, The FCO’s strategic programmes directly support the to ensure they are providing the greatest possible impact delivery of two of our foreign policy priorities: safeguarding and value for money. the UK’s national security; and building the UK’s prosperity; plus our important work to promote the JUSTICE UK’s values. Our programmes allow for dynamic and targeted interventions, working alongside host Governments Pre-trial Cross-examination Testing and civil society around the world to deliver projects which enhance our bilateral relationships and strengthen The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice the UK’s position internationally. (Chris Grayling): The Government are committed to In the past year, we increased the scope and nature of improving the experience of witnesses in court to ensure our programme funding, putting further funding into that they are supported to give their best evidence. priority areas such as maritime security, democracy and Recent harrowing court cases involving children and good governance and enhancing our engagement with other vulnerable people have highlighted that there is the emerging economies. more we can do. The total allocation for financial year 2013-14 is For some time now, the Ministry of Justice has been £133.55 million, of which £81.8 million will be spent on working with our partners in the criminal justice system official development assistance. The allocation for this to actively look at the issues around implementing financial year is a reduction of just over £10 million section 28 of the Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence from last year’s opening figure. I have allocated £44 million Act 1999. Section 28 would allow for recorded pre-trial in the area of security; £26.9 million for prosperity cross-examination of vulnerable and intimidated witnesses work; and £62.65 million for programmes in support of in cases where there may be a delay in the holding of the our values including our bilateral, regional, and human trial or where the nature of the case is such that the rights programmes. witness could be cross-examined in advance of trial. In the area of security, we will target our activity on I am confirming today the Government’s plan to areas such as aviation and maritime security and building pilot section 28 by the end of the year in three Crown counter-terrorism capacity in key countries to strengthen court locations—Liverpool, Leeds and Kingston upon their ability to detect and disrupt threats while protecting Thames. The pilots will run for six months followed by human rights. We will also continue to support counter- an assessment period after which we will consider how proliferation work, including through strengthening the best to take this measure forward. international rules-based system that underpins our efforts. We will continue to be engaged in Afghanistan ATTORNEY-GENERAL on law enforcement, security, governance, rule of law and democracy; working closely with Afghan partners Child Sexual Abuse to ensure UK-funded projects are sustained in the long term. The Solicitor-General (Oliver Heald): The Director of Our prosperity-related work will focus on promoting Public Prosecutions (DPP) has today launched a public the UK’s economic growth, particularly working on consultation on his new interim guidelines for prosecuting opening markets, promoting sustainable global growth cases involving child sexual abuse. and ensuring access to resources. We want to encourage The guidelines set out the new approach that prosecutors openness to trade and investment, strengthen the should take when reviewing cases of child sexual abuse multilateral trading system and support the rules-based and how they should look at the overall credibility of international economic system. We will continue to the allegation of abuse. The guidelines are intended to focus efforts in the emerging economies in the coming cover the range of child sexual abuse, including the year. This will reinforce our strategy of deploying more abuse usually characterised as “child sexual exploitation”. staff to the emerging powers and fastest growing regions The guidelines have been issued on an interim basis as the cost of our diplomatic presence in Iraq and as they are the subject of a public consultation exercise Afghanistan reduces and we restructure our subordinate that will last for three months. The DPP will publish his post network in Europe. In the area of climate change, final guidelines later this year once he has considered we will aim to create the conditions necessary to raise the responses to the consultation. ambition on emissions mitigation and the shift in investment Copies of the interim guidelines have been placed in to low carbon. the Libraries of both Houses. The work to promote the UK’s values and build our The DPP’s interim guidelines are being published at international influence will focus on promoting human the same time as new guidance for the police is being rights, democracy and good governance. As part of this, issued by the College of Policing, and which is also the we will continue to support the Westminster Foundation subject of public consultation. 3P Petitions11 JUNE 2013 Petitions 4P

And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by John Petition Howell, Official Report, 24 April 2013; Vol. 561, c. 977 .] [P001173] Tuesday 11 June 2013 Observations from the Secretary of State for Transport: I have asked Network Rail to advise on the costs and OBSERVATIONS feasibility of installing lifts at Goring and Streatley station during the forthcoming electrification construction works on the Great Western Main Line. As Goring and Streatley station is on a Trans-European TRANSPORT Network (TEN) route, any major works are required to Mobility access to Goring and Streatley Station comply with the standards set out in “Technical Specification of Interoperability: Persons With Restricted The Petition of residents of Goring and Streatley and Mobility”(Office for Official Publications of the European the surrounding area, Communities 2008) or, where this is not possible, to Declares that the Petitioners are concerned about the seek a derogation from those standards. provision of mobility access to Goring and Streatley We have also announced £100 million to extend the station. Access for All programme from 2015 until 2019. We will The Petitioners therefore request that the House of be working with the rail industry over the next year to Commons urges the Government to support the installation select stations to receive an accessible route. Stations of lifts at Goring and Streatley railway station when the will be chosen based on annual footfall, the incidence of station footbridge is rebuilt in 2013–14 as part of the disability in the area and the availability of any third track electrification programme, thus ensuring that mobility party match funding. While I cannot guarantee that impaired passengers are able to have equal and step-free Goring and Streatley will be selected it will be considered access to the trains that serve the station. along with other currently inaccessible stations.

201W Written Answers10 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 202W

Table 4: Workplace Learning achievement by age and level, 2009/10 to 2011/12 Written Answers to 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 First First First First First First Full Full Full Full Full Full Questions Level 2 Level 3 Level 2 Level 3 Level 2 Level 3 19-23 17,820 4,920 15,280 3,950 8,610 2,090 Monday 10 June 2013 24+ 141,120 47,230 119,300 38,440 65,390 18,860

[Continued from Column 200W] Table 5: Community Learning achievement by age and level, 2009/10 to 2011/12 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 First First First First First First Full Full Full Full Full Full BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Level 2 Level 3 Level 2 Level 3 Level 2 Level 3

Adult Education 19-23 10 * 10 10 240 140 24+ 50 30 160 90 1610 640 Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Notes: Business, Innovation and Skills (1) how many learners 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. ’*’ indicates a figure of less than 5. 2. Age is based on age at the start of the academic year. Learners with an aged 19 to 23 years old achieved a Level 3 qualification unknown age are included in the 24+ age category. through their statutory entitlement to a fully funded Source: first full level 3 qualification in academic year (a) Individualised Learner Record 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 and (c) 2011-12; [158801] Bangladesh (2) how many learners aged 24 years and over achieved Level 2 qualifications in academic year (a) Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 and (c) 2011-12; [158802] Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment UK (3) how many learners aged 19 to 24 years old Trade and Investment made of the compatibility with achieved Level 2 qualifications through their statutory the UN Guiding Principles on Business and Human entitlement to a fully funded first full level 2 Rights of its support for GCM Resource’s Phulbari qualification in academic year (a) 2009-10, (b) open cast coal mine project in Bangladesh. [158331] 2010-11 and (c) 2011-12. [158803] Matthew Hancock: Table 1 shows the number of Michael Fallon: The UK Trade and investment (UKTI) Government-funded Further Education and Skills learners team in Dhaka provides support to UK companies achieving a Level 2 and Level 3 qualification by age, seeking to do business in Bangladesh. It is for individual 2009/10 to 2011/12. This includes learners across all companies to make an assessment of the viability of Further Education and Skills provision types. any potential projects. UKTI does not have the remit or resources to undertake an assessment for a company of Tables 2 to 5 show the number of Government-funded whether an individual project is environmentally, technically, learners achieving a First Full level 2 and First Full socially or financially viable. level 3 qualification by age, for each provision type— Education and Training, Apprenticeships, Workplace We want to help British business succeed in a way Learning and Community Learning. We have presented that is consistent with our values. The promotion of First Full Level information separately as it is not business and the protection of human rights should go possible to sum the individual provision types to give a hand in hand. The Government intends to launch an total figure as this may double count learners. action plan on business and human rights—based on the UN Guiding Principles—which will underpin business Table 1: Further Education and Skills achievement by age and level, 2009/10 to success by helping UK companies understand and manage 2011/12 human rights risk. 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 Level 2 Level 3 Level 2 Level 3 Level 2 Level 3 Business: Credit 19-23 183,090 100,070 175,350 98,330 180,940 96,400 24+ 742,870 244,330 613,550 184,250 594,300 152,550 Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will increase the Table 2: Education and Training achievement by age and level, 2009/10 to scope of the pilot TradeUK credit scheme so that it can 2011/12 offer credit to a wider range of small and micro- 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 businesses. [158456] First First First First First First Full Full Full Full Full Full Level 2 Level 3 Level 2 Level 3 Level 2 Level 3 Michael Fallon: Expressions of interest have been received from 20 organisations to participate in the 19-23 19,190 21,840 19,700 23,800 26,110 25,790 Enterprise Finance Guarantee Trade Credit Pilot, which 24+ 43,900 30,620 51,160 30,600 72,030 28,700 is currently available to trade customers of Kingfisher plc (B and Q and Screwfix). Table 3: Apprenticeships achievement by age and level, 2009/10 to 2011/12 Formal negotiations have started with a number of 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 trade credit providers, including a trade association First First First First First First Full Full Full Full Full Full who have proposed a collective model that would allow Level 2 Level 3 Level 2 Level 3 Level 2 Level 3 smaller independent builders merchants to participate in the scheme. New providers will be bought on board 19-23 15,180 15,540 16,590 17,420 20,190 18,440 during the summer, expanding the scheme, providing 24+ 8,960 9,030 9,780 10,380 24,150 19,480 additional finance to sole traders and small businesses. 203W Written Answers10 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 204W

Business: Staffordshire Mr Burley: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his Department is taking to increase the level of access to Mr Burley: To ask the Secretary of State for credit for businesses in (a) Cannock Chase Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his constituency and (b) Staffordshire in the last year. Department is taking to support small and medium [158162] sized businesses in Cannock Chase constituency. [158160] Michael Fallon: It is one of the Government’s main priorities to increase access to finance, in particular for Michael Fallon: Small and medium-sized enterprises small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). The Funding (SMEs) in Cannock Chase constituency can benefit for Lending Scheme is reducing the cost of lending to from a range of national schemes to support businesses, business and this was extended by a year in April and provided by this Department, and local initiatives managed will be made available to providers of asset backed, by organisations such as the county council and the invoice and lease/hire financial products which will local enterprise partnerships (LEPs). further boost the availability of credit to SMEs. The Cannock Chase constituency is covered by both As of April 2013 the Department’s Enterprise the Stoke-on-Trent and Staffordshire LEP and Greater Finance Guarantee (EFG) has offered loans totalling a Birmingham and Solihull LEP. While there are no value of £2.91 million to 38 businesses in Cannock specific grants to SMEs in the Cannock Chase constituency, Chase constituency and a total of 399 businesses in SMEs are able to benefit from two local programmes. Staffordshire have been offered EFG loan with a total The Stoke-on-Trent and Staffordshire LEP in partnership value of £38.77 million. with North Staffordshire Chamber of Commerce aims to boost local businesses by offering funding support Companies: Birmingham for expansion, investment and job creation, through a grant scheme in targeted areas called the Stoke-on-Trent and Staffordshire Jobs and Growth Fund. Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many new Birmingham city council, on behalf of a cross-LEP companies were entered on the Companies Register in consortium in the West Midlands, has been selected to Birmingham in the first three months of (a) 2011, (b) receive funding from the Department’s Regional Growth 2012 and (c) 2013. [157852] Fund. Small grants of up to £100,000 will be provided to boost SME supply chain companies in their transition to a green economy. Michael Fallon: The estimated number of new companies incorporated by Companies House in the first three At a national level, Government has continued to months of (a) 2011, (b) 2012, and (c) 2013 that have a work with the banks and alternative and new funders to registered office in Birmingham are as follows. ensure that SMEs are able to access the finance they need. This includes our new Start-Up Loans aimed at Number young people setting up in business. One loan has been drawn-down in Cannock itself and 10 further loans 2011 2,386 have been drawn down in the surrounding area. 2012 2,726 SMEs in Cannock and Chase can also access 2013 2,596 www.gov.uk Credit: Licensing the new home for Government services and information online, and to help those that cannot use the internet, we will continue to offer support through the Business Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for Link helpline on 0845 6009006. Business, Innovation and Skills when he will report on For businesses with high growth potential, we the consultation on Climate Change Levy exemptions have launched “GrowthAccelerator”—a £200 million for metallurgical and mineralogical process. [157780] programme for up to 26,000 high growth potential SMEs, providing them with exactly the expertise, insight Sajid Javid: I have been asked to reply on behalf of and networks they need to achieve sustainable growth. the Treasury. More information is available on the website at: The Budget announced a new exemption from the www.growthaccelerator.com climate change levy for energy used in metallurgical and In addition, the Manufacturing Advisory Service (MAS) mineralogical processes from 1 April 2014. The Government has assisted 25 manufacturing firms in Cannock since is currently seeking views from industry on the design January 2012 with the firms benefiting from in-depth and scope of this exemption. This work is led by HM MAS support forecasting over £3 million in economic Revenue and Customs, who are working closely with growth and the creation of up to 26 new jobs over the industry in order to gain a dear understanding as to following year, with a further 83 jobs safeguarded. which processes should be covered by the new exemption. SMEs in Cannock Chase constituency are also able to This will be followed in the summer by round table access a wide range of export support from UK Trade meetings to discuss these findings. & Investment (UKTI), with 28 companies supported in Draft legislation to implement the exemption will be this area in 2012-13. We are also planning an export published around the time of the autumn statement event, as part of our series of events with MPs in the 2013. This will provide a further opportunity for interested constituency in the autumn. parties to comment. 205W Written Answers10 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 206W

Cybercrime Michael Fallon: As set out in the UK Oil and Gas Industrial Strategy, we are actively engaging with industry Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for on a wide range of Government finance initiatives that Business, Innovation and Skills what measures are in are currently in place to support growth and innovation. place to control the export of cyber security software. This includes promoting oil and gas industry participation [158598] in the Government-funded Advanced Manufacturing Supply Chain Initiative (AMSCI), helping to shape the Michael Fallon: A licence is required for the export of role of the Business Bank, and the reintroduction of oil cyber security software if that item is specially designed and gas onto the Technology Strategy Board (TSB) for military use or has a cryptographic capability as programme. specified in Council Regulation (EC) No 428/2009 (which Further Education: Public Appointments is known as the ’EU Dual-Use Regulation’). All export licence applications are assessed on a Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for case-by-case basis against the Consolidated EU and Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to his National Arms Export Licensing Criteria taking into Department’s publication entitled, Rigour and account all relevant factors, including the prevailing Responsiveness in Skills, when he will confirm the circumstances in the recipient country and the stated appointment of the FE Commissioner. [158804] end-use. A licence would not be issued if to do so was inconsistent with any of the Criteria. Matthew Hancock: Following our commitment in EU Internal Trade Rigour and Responsiveness in Skills, I can confirm that the process is currently under way to appoint a small number of FE Advisers, one of whom will fulfil the role Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for of FE Commissioner, to support the Departments and Business, Innovation and Skills if he will review the funding agencies in implementing our new intervention recommendation in the report by the British Chamber strategy. The recruitment process is being pursued through of Commerce, Exporting is good for Britain but the National College for Teaching and Leadership’s market barriers stifle opportunities, that the European Operational Associates Framework. Union’s Single Market Act and Services Directive be implemented in full in order to dismantle barriers to I expect to be in a position to announce details of the appointments before the end of July, which will enable cross-border EU trade. [158009] the FE Commissioner to be fully operational from the Michael Fallon: I am aware of the series of British start of the 2013/14 academic year. Chamber of Commerce Exporting Is Good for Britain Higher Education: Business reports, market barriers being one of these. The Government is fully committed to an open and Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for efficient single market in services and is working with a Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his number of other likeminded member states to ensure Department is taking to support business societies at the full implementation of the Services Directive by all UK universities. [158743] EU member states along similar lines to those proposed by the British Chambers of Commerce. Michael Fallon: The Government is providing seed funding for the National Association of College and Food University Entrepreneurs to build a self-sustainable business model that will support the creation of student enterprise Mr Meacher: To ask the Secretary of State for societies in every university and most colleges by 2015. Business, Innovation and Skills what meetings (a) his, The societies work to drive the growth of entrepreneurship (b) Ministers in his Department and (c) officials in his in higher and further education, raising awareness of Department have held with directors or staff of the top enterprise as a potential career choice and providing 15 food producers in the UK in the last 12 months; and advice and support to students and graduates as they what subjects were discussed at those meetings. [158376] start-up in business. Michael Fallon: UK Food and Drink policy is a HMS Ark Royal matter for the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson). However Ministers Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions he and officials in this Department hold meetings with had with the Secretary of State for Defence on the food producers and their representative bodies on cross contract to dismantle HMS Ark Royal; what steps he cutting business issues. Information on these meetings took to work with (a) UK-based firms and (b) is not held centrally and could be obtained only at government agencies to ensure that all or some of the disproportionate cost. work was undertaken by such companies; whether any UK-based facilities bid for the contract; and if he will Fossil Fuels make a statement. [158114]

Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Michael Fallon: There were no specific discussions Business, Innovation and Skills what public monies with the Secretary of State for Defence, my right hon. have been allocated to supporting the Government’s oil Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge and gas strategy. [158616] (Mr Hammond), regarding the dismantling of the HMS 207W Written Answers10 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 208W

Ark Royal. However there is agreed Government policy Iron and Steel: Industry set out in the Ship Recycling Strategy which provides the opportunity for UK based firms to compete fairly Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for and openly. The Ministry of Defence (MOD) sold the Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions former HMS Ark Royal following an open competition he has had with representatives of the UK steel held in accordance with this strategy. Seventeen proposals, industry. [157997] either to recycle or re-use the ship, were received including seven from UK firms. As a result of this competitive Michael Fallon: BIS holds frequent discussions with process Leyal was selected to recycle the ship at its the UK steel industry at both ministerial and official shipyard in Turkey. level on a range of issues of importance to the sector. Most recently the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation Industry and Skills, the right hon. Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable), met with Tata Steel Europe on 3 June 2013; with SSI on 2 May 2013; and with Celsa Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Manufacturing (UK) Ltd on 26 March 2013. The issues Business, Innovation and Skills for which industry discussed included energy costs, climate change policy sectors collaborative strategic partnerships are due to and procurement. be published during this Parliament; and what timetable he has set for the publication of each. Land Registry [158615] Craig Whittaker: To ask the Secretary of State for Michael Fallon: Sector strategies have been published Business, Innovation and Skills if he will publish (a) in Aerospace, Life Sciences, Nuclear and Oil and Gas. all correspondence, (b) market research, (c) the Sector strategies in Education Exports, Automotive, business case and (d) the impact assessment produced Off-Shore Wind, Agri-tech, Information Economy, by his Department in the last 12 months with regards Professional and Business Services and Construction to privatising the Land Registry. [158577] are due to be published by summer 2013. Michael Fallon: I have asked Land Registry to consider Insurance Companies: Billing alternative commercial models that would enable them to better deliver on their new Business Strategy. This work is ongoing and no final decisions have yet been Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for made. Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what steps he is If there were to be any proposal for a change in the taking to encourage insurance companies to sign up to status of Land Registry, there would be a full and the prompt payment code; [157718] careful public consultation. (2) what assessment he has made of the effects on small businesses of late payment by insurance Craig Whittaker: To ask the Secretary of State for companies; [157719] Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions he has (3) if he will launch a specific campaign to encourage had with (a) trades unions and (b) local authorities insurance companies to pay small businesses promptly. with regards to TUPE arrangements in the event of the [157720] privatisation of the Land Registry. [158821]

Michael Fallon: I refer the hon. Member to the answer Michael Fallon: I have asked Land Registry to consider I gave him on 20 May 2013, Official Report column 629W. alternative commercial models that would enable them to better deliver on their new Business Strategy. Intellectual Property I have met with representatives from both PCS and FDA recently where they were able to raise any issues and concerns. Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for There have been no discussions with local authorities Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has with regards to TUPE arrangements as no decisions made of the value of UK-owned intellectual property have yet been made on the future status of Land Registry. lost through cyber-espionage in the most recent period If there were to be any proposal for a change in the for which figures are available. [159066] status of Land Registry, we would embark on a full and careful public consultation. Mr Willetts: We are aware that intellectual property theft is happening on a large scale. The 2013 Manufacturing Industries Information Security Breaches Survey showed 14% of large organisations and 9% of small businesses reporting Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for theft of intellectual property by an outsider to their Business, Innovation and Skills what recent steps his organisation. However, some companies may not be Department has taken to encourage growth in the aware that thefts or losses of intellectual property have manufacturing sector. [158746] occurred, or be willing to report it, so estimating the overall figure is very difficult. Michael Fallon: We are strengthening UK As part of the Government’s cyber security strategy, manufacturing’s capability by encouraging innovation BIS is working with others to raise awareness of cyber and technology commercialisation, exports, business security issues and to encourage businesses to take steps investment, improving skills, building UK supply chains to protect their information and intellectual property. and promoting manufacturing’s image. 209W Written Answers10 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 210W

In collaboration with industry, we are developing such as crowd funding. Also, our Start-Up Loan Scheme 11 sector strategies to give business the confidence to provides both advice and finance and has just celebrated invest and grow. its 5,000th loan to help young entrepreneurs set up their We have committed £1.5 billion to support sector new business. strategies including £1 billion for the Aerospace Technology The Government has also taken steps to stimulate Institute with matched funding from industry; £1 billion investment in early stage firms through tax incentives to the Business Bank; £600 million to develop the ″eight such as the Seed Enterprise Investment Scheme and to great technologies″; a further £350 million to the Regional support growth in firms with the most ambition and Growth Fund; £250 million to support the most energy potential, whatever their life stage. For example 6,000 intensive industries and an additional £120 million to firms including those in their early stages are now the Advanced Manufacturing Supply Chain Initiative. benefitting from coaching to accelerate their business growth through the Growth Accelerator programme. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Finally, I have just announced that the freeze exempting Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has businesses with fewer than 10 employees from burdensome made of the importance of the manufacturing sector to new regulations will now be extended to firms with up the UK economy. [158747] to 50 staff, and will continue from 2014.

Michael Fallon: Manufacturing is a vital part of our economy, generating £148 billion in GVAin 2012—10.7% of New Businesses: Young People the UK GDP.It contributes disproportionately to overall levels of productivity generating 53% of the UK’s export Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for of goods, and accounts for 72% of our business research Business, Innovation and Skills what recent steps he and development and thus the innovation which drives has taken to encourage entrepreneurship amongst 16 to growth. It also benefits other sectors through demand 25 year olds. [158744] for raw materials, energy, and services like research, design, and finance. Michael Fallon: It is important that young people Our Industrial Strategy is promoting measures to gain first hand business experience to help them understand support advanced manufacturing including the aerospace what it means to run a business and the skills needed to and automotive sectors. do it successfully. Government supports or promotes a wide range of initiatives to support our drive to build a New Businesses: Government Assistance culture of enterprise through activities in schools, colleges and universities: Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for For schools: Business, Innovation and Skills what recent measures the ‘Enterprise Village’ website provides free resources for he has put in place to help start-up businesses survive teachers to assist them in developing school businesses; and expand. [158741] micro business finance schemes like YoungEnterprise’s ‘Tenner challenge’ and Peter Jones Foundation’s ‘Tycoon in Schools’, Michael Fallon: Small and medium-sized businesses provides children with opportunities to create their own business are important drivers of economic growth and the plans and trade while at school; Government is working hard to make the UK the best having role models share their experiences through the ‘Speakers place to start, run and expand businesses. for Schools’ and Inspiring the Future schemes sees people from all sectors and professions work with state schools and colleges to There is a wide range of advice and information for help young people achieve their potential; and businesses available at: the Premier League Enterprise Academy enables Premier League www.gov.uk football clubs to foster enterprise among young people principally and also the GREAT website: in deprived areas, by helping young people learn about different aspects of running a football club. www.greatbusiness.gov.uk For higher and further education: launched on 5 June, which links to sources of business the National Association of College and University Entrepreneurs, support from Government and the private sector. The is working to develop and drive forward student enterprise societies mentorsme website: across higher and further education institutions; www.mentorsme.co.uk the National Centre for Entrepreneurship in Education is also enables small businesses to access a network of 27,000 working to enable higher and further education institutions to experienced business mentors to help them thrive and better support entrepreneurship; and grow. the Entrepreneurs and Education Programme aims to further embed entrepreneurship and innovation across universities and The Government has also taken steps to ensure better colleges. access to bank and other sources of finance, which can be a particular issue for new companies looking to Government is also providing access to finance amongst expand. This includes helping 11,400 businesses with this age group through the New Enterprise Allowance insufficient track record or collateral to secure commercial and through Start-up Loans which has just announced loans through the Enterprise Finance Guarantee scheme, its 5000th loan. and increasing the supply of other sources of finance Taken together, these schemes and initiatives will for example investing over £110 million of venture inspire even more young people to start their own capital in over 80 companies through Enterprise Capital business and encourage them to consider entrepreneurship Funds, supporting angel alternative sources of lending as a career option. 211W Written Answers10 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 212W

Pay Michael Fallon: There have been no such discussions. The proposed Italian law applies only to Italy. UK Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for waste policy is a matter for the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has made Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. an assessment of the effect of introducing a national Friend the Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson). living wage on the (a) level of overall dependency on in-work benefits and (b) size of the overall welfare bill. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for [158921] Business, Innovation and Skills for what reason the UK has made an objection to the European Commission Jo Swinson: There is no recognised definition of a on the compatibility of Italy’s proposed ban on plastic national living wage. Therefore, we have made no such bags with the single market provisions in the EU assessment. Directive on Packaging and packaging waste 94/62/EC. Advocates of the living wage suggest that it should be [158007] a voluntary rate of pay, above the minimum wage that varies by region to reflect the cost of maintaining an Michael Fallon: Plastic packaging is regulated under adequate standard of living. The Government supports the EU Packaging and Packaging Waste Directive to businesses who choose to pay a living wage however the ensure the environment is protected. As the Italian decision on what wages to set are for workers and measure goes beyond these requirements by allowing employers. only biodegradable bags and prevents British businesses The Government’s primary policy for helping the low selling similar recyclable and other degradable bags into paid is through the national minimum wage (NMW) this market, the UK made comments on the proposed and the role of the Low Pay Commission is to review law in the form of a Detailed Opinion under the Technical the NMW on the basis of independent judgment and Standards and Regulations Directive 1998/34/EC. advice. Their remit each year is to use analysis and Post Offices: Digital Technology evidence to set the NMW at a rate that achieves its aim of maximising the wages of the low paid without adverse Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for effects on employment. Business, Innovation and Skills what the economic Since the introduction of the NMW, hourly pay has effect of new cogent digital camera technology has increased more at the bottom end than at the median been on smaller sub-post offices. [158750] without a discernible adverse effect on employment. However, since around 2007 the Low Pay Commission’s Jo Swinson: Cogent equipment is available in 753 judgment is that there is little exploitation at a national post office branches, offering access to services including level and, therefore, it has recommended that the adult DVLA photocard licence renewals and in some branches national minimum wage rate should largely keep pace biometric residency permits. Decisions regarding which with average earnings growth as any larger rise was post office branches have the Cogent equipment is an likely to have an adverse effect on employment. operational matter that is the responsibility of management Therefore any increase to the NMW adult rate above at Post Office Ltd. These arrangements do not affect the the LPC’s recommendation, although it might reduce motor vehicle licensing service available in some 4,600 the take up of in-work benefits if the hourly increase led branches or the passport check and send service available to an increase in weekly wages, is also likely to have an in around 2,500 branches. adverse effect on employment and consequently the Public Houses: Closures overall welfare bill. The recommendation this year is for the adult national Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for minimum wage rate to rise 1.9%, in October line with Business, Innovation and Skills what research, surveys, expected average earnings growth and more than the studies or data gathering on pub closures his general rise in out of work benefits (1%). Department has (a) commissioned and (b) subscribed Plastic Bags: Italy to. [158613]

Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Jo Swinson: The information requested is as follows: Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has held (a) The Department has commissioned London Economics to provide an independent analysis of the impact on pub numbers discussions with the British Retail Consortium on the and employment levels of the proposals in the Government’s recent legislation in Italy banning plastic carrier bags consultation on Pub Companies and Tenants. Our intention to and on its implications for UK waste policy. [157838] commission an independent analysis was outlined in the consultation published on 22 April 2013. Michael Fallon: There have been no such discussions. (b) The Department has not subscribed to any “research, BIS officials are in regular contact with the British surveys, studies or data gathering on pub closures”. However, we Retail Consortium on a range of issues, including carrier have had access to data collected by CGA Strategy, a consultancy, bags. The proposed Italian law applies only to Italy. UK on pub numbers. waste policy is a matter for the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. Regional Growth Fund Friend the Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson). Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many jobs would Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has held have been created and how much investment would discussions with the British Plastics Federation on the have been generated by each bid to the Regional recent legislation in Italy banning plastic carrier bags Growth Fund which has been withdrawn to date had and on its implications for UK waste policy. [157839] the project gone ahead. [158614] 213W Written Answers10 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 214W

Michael Fallon: It is not possible to set out these Michael Fallon: We will publish details of the expenditure figures because the vast majority of withdrawals from on advisers once a transaction is completed. Given that the Regional Growth Fund (RGF) happen before the the sale of Royal Mail shares would be a significant project or programme agrees a final offer with Government commercial transaction for Government, it is expected and before the project or programme has started. In the that the National Audit Office and the Public Accounts absence of a final offer detailing a year-by-year jobs Committee will scrutinise fees incurred as part of any and investment profile it is not possible to determine review into the conduct of the transaction. This is the what the project or programme would have delivered if normal process of scrutiny for major Government asset it had not withdrawn. sales. Regional Growth Fund: North West Sign Language

Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Business, Innovation and Skills how many applicants Innovation and Skills what assessment his Department to the Regional Growth Fund in the North West have has made of the potential effects on employers of received funds from the Regional Growth Fund to statutory recognition of British Sign Language. date; and when such payments were made. [158703] [157724] Michael Fallon: In the north-west, £309.3 million has Matthew Hancock: There is no statutory recognition been made available so far to 58 finalised bids. All for British Sign Language, but the Equality Act 2010 31 finalised bids from Rounds 1 and 2 of the Regional does impose a duty on employers to consider reasonable Growth Fund (RGF) have drawn down funding. The adjustments for disabled people. following table shows how many of the 31 beneficiaries Department for Business, Innovation and Skills has received their first payment in each of the financial made no assessment of the potential effects on employers years the RGF has been in operation. of considering reasonable adjustments for those with hearing difficulties to help them communicate effectively. Financial year Number of bids Skilled Workers: Science 2011-12 5 2012-13 24 Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for 2013-14 (to date) 2 Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking Total 31 to (a) ensure the future skills needs of Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) The remaining 27 finalised awards are from Round 3. based industries are met and (b) ensure graduates in Successful bidders can now draw down funding as STEM subjects are equipped with the skills employers required. However, beneficiaries do not need the money need. [158556] in their bank accounts for RGF offer to make a difference—just having our support can be enough to Mr Willetts: The Government fully recognises the get them started, to trigger private investment that also importance of Science, Technology, Engineering and drives up employment. Nine out of 10 of these projects Maths (STEM) based industries to the UK economy, started as soon as they received confirmation that their and in maintaining a healthy STEM pipeline. This is application has been selected for funding. why we continue to sponsor a range of initiatives which aim to engage young people in STEM at various points Research: Cancer in their educational career, as well as raise the profile of manufacturing. Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for For example, we sponsor STEMNET and the National Business, Innovation and Skills how much funding Science and Engineering Competition. We are also working provided by the Medical Research Council was spent with industry to develop innovative programmes such on research into brain cancer in 2011-12. [157705] as See Inside Manufacturing and Make it in Great Britain, which allow young people to see the opportunities Mr Willetts: The Medical Research Council (MRC) which a career in manufacturing can offer. is one of the main agencies through which the Government A current focus of this Department is addressing the support medical and clinical research. It is an independent potential engineering skills gap which has been predicted research funding body which receives its grant in aid by a number of organisations. Professor Perkins and his from the Department for Business, Innovation and team were commissioned by the Secretary of State for Skills. Business, Innovation and Skills, the right hon. Member In 2011/12 the MRC spent £1.26 million on research for Twickenham (Vince Cable), to look into this issue into brain cancer. and will report on their findings later in 2013. Royal Mail We know that industry has specific needs and as well as inspiring young people to engage with STEM education Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for we are developing industrial strategies across a range of Business, Innovation and Skills what the total cost has industries which will address sector specific skills needs. been of advice received from (a) investment bankers, In order to ensure that graduates are equipped with (b) management consultants, (c) external lawyers and the skills which employers need when they leave university (d) other professional advisers in respect of the we have funded the Council for Industry and Higher preparation of new ownership structures for Royal Education (CIHE) to develop a National Centre for Mail since the Postal Services Act 2011 came into force. Universities and Business: [157691] http://www.ncub.co.uk/ 215W Written Answers10 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 216W

This will cover all aspects of higher education-business the education system provides young people with an collaboration—graduate recruitment, work experience, effective grounding in the skills which they need and skill needs, research, knowledge exchange and innovation. which industry demand. Universities are working closely with employers to I jointly chair, with the Under-Secretary of State for improve their provision and the employability of their Education, my hon. Friend the Member for South West students. Employment outcomes, and information on Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), a regular meeting which course accreditation are part of the Key Information brings together leading representatives from across the Set which students can use to inform their choice of Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) course and institution. We are also working with a community and provides an opportunity to discuss number of employer representative bodies and professional ideas and feedback on current issues including technological bodies to enhance the employer’s voice in accrediting skills. Our most recent meeting included agenda items STEM degrees, and encouraging employers and universities on STEM technicians and engineering skills. This is to work together to ensure that students graduate with part of a continuous dialogue between Departments at the sort of skills that employers need. a ministerial level which is further supported and strengthened by having the Under-Secretary of State Students: Work Experience for Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock), as part of the ministerial team Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for with his joint BIS/DFE ministerial responsibilities. Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his Department is taking to encourage employers to offer Travel industrial placements to (a) science undergraduates and (b) chemistry undergraduates. [158554] Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what his Department’s Mr Willetts: Government actively promotes and budget for ministerial travel for (a) the Government encourages the creation of placement and internship Car Service, (b) private hire vehicles, (c) taxis, (d) rail, opportunities across all industry sectors, including the (e) aviation and (f) other is for (i) 2013-14, (ii) 2014-15 scientific sector. But the key responsibility rests with and (iii) 2015-16. [157517] businesses and universities, who must work together to help students acquire the skills and knowledge that Jo Swinson: The Department’s budget for ministerial employers need. Placements, internships, and work travel is based on the spend incurred in previous years, experience are part of this. For example, Cogent (the the details of which are published in the annual written Sector Skills Council for Science Based Industries) takes ministerial statement and the quarterly publication of the lead in developing an industry-owned approach to Ministers’ overseas travel. I refer the hon. Member to identifying skills demand, establishing standards and my answer today to written parliamentary question commissioning high quality training solutions. Earlier 157538. this month, they launched a Life Sciences Skills Placement The Department is mindful of the Ministerial Code Service that will make it easier for industry to recruit which makes it clear that travel arrangements should be students for placements. The service aims to provide efficient and cost-effective but also that ministerial travel 120 placements over the first two years, 100 placements in this Department is determined by requests to travel a year from the third year, and the first year will be both in the UK and abroad in support of British subsidised for small and medium-sized enterprises. This business interests. is in line with a Strategy for UK Life Sciences commitment to increase placement opportunities. Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for To support the overall approach on employer engagement Business, Innovation and Skills how much his Government, along with partner organisations, provided Department spent on ministerial travel by (a) development funding for a National Centre for Universities Government Car Service, (b) private hire vehicles, (c) and Business which was launched in January 2013. The taxis, (d) rail, (e) aviation and (f) other means in each NCUB: year of the current parliament. [157538] http://www.ncub.co.uk/ will gather evidence, bring together university and business Jo Swinson: Details of this Department’s spend with leaders, and share best practice. It will cover all aspects the Government Car Service (GCS) are published in the of higher education-business working, including skill annual written ministerial statement, details of which needs, work experience and graduate recruitment. can be found within the Libraries of both Houses or via the following links: Technology: Education 2009/10: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/ Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for cmhansrd/cm101028/wmstext/ Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions 101028m0001.htm#10102827000372 he has had with the Secretary of State for Education on 2010/11: improving technological skills training in secondary http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201212/ schools. [158748] cmhansrd/cm120116/wmstext/ 120116m0001.htm#12011611000194 Mr Willetts: The Department for Business Innovation 2011/12: and Skills (BIS) have a close working relationship with http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/ the Department for Education (DFE) at both a cmhansrd/cm121220/wmstext/ ministerial and official level. This helps to ensure that 121220m0001.htm#12122056000216 217W Written Answers10 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 218W

2012/13: issues and activity. Over the past 18 months, they have Details will be published in due course also worked together on inward investment enquiries, Information regarding the cost of Ministers overseas relationship management of foreign owned companies travel can be found at: operating in Cumbria, organisation of an IST visit to key companies and assets in Cumbria’s important business https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department- sectors, and an initiative to gather information and for-business-innovation-skills/series/bis-quarterly- publications-april-to-june-2012 intelligence about Cumbria’s offer to foreign investors. This activity has involved contact with foreign and Information regarding spend on other forms of domestic owned businesses such as Pirelli, McVities, ministerial travel could be provided only at disproportionate NuGen, Par Systems, M Sport, TIS, Forth Engineering costs. and James Fisher Nuclear. In addition UKTI representatives As set out in the Ministerial Code Ministers must have held regular meetings with the LEP chair and ensure that they always make efficient and cost-effective executive to take forward the trade agenda. travel arrangements and all Ministers are encouraged to walk or use public transport wherever practicable. John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills on which occasions UK Trade and Investment: Cumbria representatives from UK Trade and Investment have met with businesses based in Cumbria in the last year. John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for [158790] Business, Innovation and Skills on what occasions representatives from UK Trade and Investment have Michael Fallon: During 2012/13 UK Trade and met with the Cumbria Local Enterprise Partnership in Investment (UKTI) international trade advisers worked the last year. [158789] with some 261 Cumbria based businesses. Many of these businesses are regular users of UKTI services and Michael Fallon: On inward foreign direct investment will have met with UKTI staff on several occasions over (FDI) matters, UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) and the course of the year. In addition UKTI provided its Investment Services Team (IST) work closely with support to Cumbria Chamber of Commerce to run Cumbria partners. IST holds meetings every other month 37 events on exporting which attracted 621 company with Invest in Cumbria—the Cumbria LEP’s designated delegates. UKTI has four international trade advisers delivery partner for inward investment—to discuss FDI based in Cumbria who work closely with the Chamber.

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spends on contracts with Capita; and how much was Written Answers to spent in each year since 2008. [158471] Questions Mrs Villiers: My Department’s expenditure on contracts with Capita in the current financial year is £2,169 per month. Tuesday 11 June 2013 Because of the devolution of policing and justice functions on 12 April 2010, and subsequent reconfiguration of the Northern Ireland Office, my Department does NORTHERN IRELAND not hold figures for the periods prior to 2010; attempting to obtain this information would incur disproportionate Capita cost. For the financial years 2010/11 to 2012/13, my Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Department’s expenditure on contracts with Capita Northern Ireland how much her Department currently was:

Capita maintenance contract expenditure £

2010/11 0 2011/12 0 2012/13 20,026

Legal Costs (4) what the 20 highest amounts paid for external legal advice by the Public Accounts Commission in (a) Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010, (b) 2011 and (c) 2012 were; to whom such Northern Ireland (1) what the 20 highest amounts paid payments were made; and for what reasons the legal for external legal advice by her Department were in (a) advice was sought. [158715] (b) (c) 2010, 2011 and 2012; to whom such payments Mr Leigh: The Public Accounts Commission has a were paid; and for what reasons the legal advice was limited number of statutory functions. Principally these sought; [158623] are to agree the National Audits Office’s strategy and (2) how much her Department spent on external budget, to appoint Non-Executive Members (other than legal advice from Queen’s counsel (a) between 7 May the Chair) to the NAO’s Board, and to appoint the 2010 and 4 September 2012 and (b) since 4 September NAO’s external auditor. The Commission has not obtained 2012; [158647] any external legal advice since 2010. (3) how much her Department spent on external legal advice (a) between 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 and (b) since 4 September 2012; [158665] WALES (4) what the highest day rate paid for external legal Accountancy advice by her Department since 7 May 2010 was. [158682] Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what the names, job titles, area of work, term of Mrs Villiers: During these periods, my Department appointment and civil service equivalent grade are of did not pay for any external legal advice. Any legal personnel currently seconded to his Department from advice required was provided by internal services. the big four accountancy firms. [159052] Stephen Crabb: The Wales Office has no personnel seconded from an accountancy firm. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMISSION

Legal Costs HOME DEPARTMENT Drugs Sadiq Khan: To ask the Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission (1) how much the Public Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the Accounts Commission has spent on external legal Home Department with reference to the answer of advice (a) between 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 15 November 2010, Official Report, column 549W, on and (b) since 4 September 2012; [158707] drugs, what progress she has made in producing the evaluation framework to support assessments of the (2) how much the Public Accounts Commission has new drugs strategy. [158934] spent on external legal advice from Queen’s Counsels (a) between 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 and Mr Jeremy Browne [holding answer 10 June 2013]: (b) since 4 September 2012; [158710] The document outlining the proposed approach to the (3) what the highest day rate paid for external legal evaluation of the 2010 Drug Strategy—the Evaluation advice by the Public Accounts Commission since Framework—is currently being finalised and will be 7 May 2010 has been; [158713] published shortly. 221W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 222W

Gating Orders (2012), which draws on the full range of knowledge available to us. This is available on the Home Office Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for the website at: Home Department (1) what discussions her http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/counter-terrorism/ Department has had with the emergency services on prevent/vul-assessment the proposed changes to gating orders in the Anti- social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill; [159018] (2) what consultation her Department has had with COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (a) local access forums and (b) Rambler associations on the proposed changes to gating orders in the Capita Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill. [159019] Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how much his Mr Jeremy Browne: In our 2011 public consultation, Department currently spends on contracts with Capita; we sought views on the proposed rationalisation of and how much was spent in each year since 2008. powers to deal with antisocial behaviour. This included replacing gating orders with a new community [158460] protection order. We received over a thousand Brandon Lewis: Our spending relates to Capita responses, including from numerous police forces and Resourcing Ltd for short-term staffing. Use of ‘Ramblers’, Britain’s walking charity. contingent labour for short-term or specialist work can In addition, we published draft legislation in be better value for money than hiring staff on December 2012 so that it could undergo pre-legislative permanent contracts. Notwithstanding, my scrutiny by the Home Affairs Select Committee, This Department has cut back spending on contingent included a further opportunity to comment, this time labour from £17.4 million in 2008-09 and £14.4 million on the detailed proposals. Again, a number of police in 2009-10 to £3.8 million in 2012-13. We have also forces responded to this, as did the ‘Ramblers and significantly cut spending on consultancy in addition. Open Spaces Society’. The majority of spend on contingent labour is now We have considered these responses in developing with Capita Resourcing Ltd, under a centrally our proposals and will continue to engage with approved Government Framework Agreement to help interested groups and individuals over the coming year drive down unit costs. In previous years, a larger as the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill number of agencies were used by the Department but makes its way through Parliament. these have intentionally been scaled down. Consequently, the following table breaks down the Private Finance Initiative spending by year. Although the Capita spending has increased, overall costs to taxpayers have fallen as explained above. Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many contracts for private Spending on Capita Resourcing Ltd finance initiative schemes were signed prior to May Financial year £ 1997; and what the total capital value of those 2008-09 424,367 contracts was. [158062] 2009-10 670,389 2010-11 1,931,152 James Brokenshire [holding answer 5 June 2013]: 2011-12 1,351,810 The Home Office awarded a number of private finance 2012-13 2,746,271 initiative contracts for prisons and secure training centres prior to May 1997. Following machinery of Green Belt government changes in 2005 these contracts were transferred to the Ministry of Justice and all relevant Jacob Rees-Mogg: To ask the Secretary of State for details will be retained by them. Communities and Local Government to what extent it is his Department’s policy that development on the Radicalism green belt is a last resort; and what evidence is required to show the lack of suitable non-green belt sites in the Bob Stewart: To ask the Secretary of State for the surrounding area of each proposed green belt Home Department what research her Department development. [159262] undertakes into identifying those who are most Nick Boles: Reflecting the commitment made in the vulnerable to being influenced by Islamist preachers. coalition agreement, this Government has maintained [158944] strong protection of the green belt. In particular, I refer my hon. Friend to paragraph 14 James Brokenshire [holding answer 10 June 2013]: (Footnote 9) and to section 9 of the National Planning The Home Office draws on a wide range of external Policy Framework on ‘protecting Green Belt land’ evidence, including academic research, to understand which outlines national policy. what makes individuals more vulnerable to extremist ideologies and influence. This includes work to Homelessness: Yorkshire and the Humber understand the psychological and social processes, as well as local circumstances which can increase or Mr David Davis: To ask the Secretary of State for reduce vulnerability. A useful summary of our Communities and Local Government how many understanding of vulnerability is the Channel guidance families in (a) Haltemprice and Howden constituency, 223W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 224W

(b) East Yorkshire and (c) Yorkshire and Humber Government’s Help to Buy scheme in (a) Tameside were registered as homeless in each of the last three metropolitan Borough council and (b) Stalybridge and years. [157963] Hyde constituency. [158607]

Mr Prisk [holding answer 5 June 2013]: The Mr Prisk: We do not hold information at following table shows, for the East Riding of Yorkshire constituency level on the number of inquiries that have council area, both the number of homelessness been made with regards to the Help to Buy: equity loan acceptances of households with dependent children scheme. There has been a high level of interest in the in each of the last three calendar years and the scheme, for example Rightmove has reported over number of households with dependent children in 337,000 visits to its Help to Buy website since the temporary accommodation as at 31 December 2010, scheme’s launch and housebuilders have reported over 2011 and 2012. 4,000 reservations being placed in the first two months. Homeless households with dependent children, East Riding of Yorkshire Leeds City Region Number

Homelessness acceptances during the year: Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for households with dependent children Communities and Local Government if he will bring 2010 321 forward legislative proposals to amend clause 103 of 2011 333 the Local Democracy, Economic Development and 2012 286 Construction Act 2009 to allow York to be part of the Leeds City Region combined authority. [155184] Households with dependent children in temporary accommodation as at 31 December Brandon Lewis [holding answer 14 May 2013]: The 2010 44 Government’s response to the Heseltine Review 2011 33 indicated our willingness to remove legislative barriers 2012 40 to more locally-led, joint working in local government. Source: Quarterly PIE returns I am open to representations on the best way to Figures are collected only at local authority level, deliver the practical change suggested in the right hon. and so not available for the Haltemprice and Howden Member’s question, including examining the potential constituency, which falls wholly within the area of the scope for using a Legislative Reform Order to remove East Riding of Yorkshire council. The council’s area regulatory restrictions. also includes at least part of the Beverley and Holderness, Brigg and Goole, East Yorkshire and Kingston-upon-Hull West and Hessle constituencies. ATTORNEY-GENERAL As outlined in the written ministerial statement of 18 September 2012, Official Report, column 32WS, my Capita Department no longer publishes statistics by Government office region. Mr Sheerman: To ask the Attorney-General how much the Law Officers’ Departments currently spends Housing: Construction on contracts with Capita; and how much was spent in each year since 2008. [158458] Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what assessment The Solicitor-General: The information requested is he has made of the cumulative effect of Government contained in the following table: schemes to increase house building. [158537] £ Mr Prisk: We regularly publish detailed data on all TSol AGO HMCPSI CPS SFO our major housing schemes. The latest figures on net 2008-09 751,476 12,287 18,631 161,944 958,271 1 housing supply show it is at the highest level since the 2009-10 2,272,793 — — 24,231 467,632 tail end of the unsustainable housing boom in 2008. 2010-11 778,409 — 2,230 17,732 658,243 The latest seasonally adjusted house building starts in 2011-12 1,708,005 154,714 1,258 30,940 954,726 England (March quarter 2013) are 4% higher than the 2012-13 3,212,196 98,248 — 2,073,612 755,373 previous quarter and 15% higher than in the same quarter last year: Our main Affordable Homes Human Trafficking Programme remains on track to deliver 170,000 new affordable homes by March 2015. Up to a further Jim Sheridan: To ask the Attorney-General what his 30,000 homes will start on site by the same date, policy is on prosecuting people for crimes committed supported by our Affordable Housing Guarantee. while being controlled by traffickers. [158728] 1 DCLG Net supply of housing: 2011-12, England, published 1 November 2012. The Solicitor-General: The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has issued comprehensive legal guidance Housing: North West to advise prosecutors of the steps they should take in cases where the police have arrested potential victims Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for of trafficking who have committed criminal offences Communities and Local Government how many and referred them for charge. If information suggests enquiries have been made with regards to the that they have been trafficked, prosecutors are advised 225W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 226W to make full enquiries and consider whether the case Magistrates court against them should be discontinued. However, a £ prosecutor can only take these steps if they have Lower Average Higher information from the police or other sources that a Summary trial 620 775 930 suspect might be a victim of trafficking. Either-way guilty plea 145 185 220 The CPS is considering issuing new guidelines to Either-way trial 770 965 1,150 prosecutors following recent cases in the Court of Appeal in which victims of trafficking were prosecuted Crown court and convicted, having been advised to plead guilty by £ their legal representative. The new guidelines will be Lower Average Higher shared in due course with law enforcement and the Law Committal for sentence 340 425 510 Society to ensure a joined-up approach in these cases. Appeal against sentence 260 330 395 Appeal against conviction 415 520 620 Prosecutions Section 51 early guilty plea 535 670 800 Committal for trial (plea)1 1,200 1,500 1,800 Gareth Johnson: To ask the Attorney-General Committal for trial (trial)1 2,800 3,500 4,200 whether he has considered increasing the amount of 1 These scales include the costs of committal/transfer/sending proceedings. costs requested by the Crown Prosecution Service at the conclusion of magistrates’ court cases. [159092] TREASURY The Solicitor-General: The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) is currently reviewing its Scales of Costs Banks: Loans guidance and intends to issue revised guidance later this. year. The scales illustrate the average costs David Morris: To ask the Chancellor of the incurred in a wide range of cases and provide a Exchequer what steps his Department is taking to help benchmark to help inform costs applications against people who have been missold loans by high street convicted defendants. banks. [158768]

Gareth Johnson: To ask the Attorney-General what Jo Swinson: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the average cost was to the Crown Prosecution Service the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. of prosecuting a defendant who pleads (a) guilty and Consumers who believe they have been missold a (b) not guilty in the last year for which figures are financial product by a lender can complain to the available; and what average costs are sought at the Financial Ombudsman Service(FOS)—an independent conclusion of such cases. [159096] body set up, through the Financial Services and Markets Act (FSMA) 2001, to provide arbitration The Solicitor-General: The broad average internal between businesses that provide financial services and cost to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) of their customers, as an alternative to the civil courts. prosecuting cases in 2012 was as follows: Government has also decided to transfer the Magistrates court regulation of consumer credit from the Office of Fair £ Trading (OFT) to the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) from April 2014. The FCA will have its own Summary offence guilty plea 106 powers to require firms to establish redress schemes Summary offence trial 717 and require reimbursement. Either-way offence guilty plea 134 Either-way offence trial 890 Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Chancellor of the Crown court Exchequer how much has been distributed to £ businesses through the Funding for Lending scheme in (a) Tameside metropolitan borough and (b) Guilty plea 1,783 Stalybridge and Hyde constituency in the latest period Trial 3,779 for which figures are available. [158929] It should be noted that the average internal costs quoted exclude external costs, such as counsel fees, Greg Clark: The Funding for Lending scheme is witness expenses or expert fees. designed to boost lending across the whole of the UK economy. The Bank of England publishes the net The CPS applies for costs against convicted lending data of participants on a quarterly basis. defendants using published Scales of Costs guidance. However, a detailed breakdown on a geographical basis The scales illustrate the average costs incurred and is not available. provide a benchmark to help inform the calculation of costs applications against convicted defendants. The Banks: Scotland figures in the current scales are presented in a lower/average/higher range, as follows: Stewart Hosie: To ask the Chancellor of the Magistrates court Exchequer with reference to the statement on page 6 of £ his Department’s publication, Scotland Analysis: Lower Average Higher Financial Services and Banking, that Scottish banks have assets totalling around 1254 per cent of an Early (first hearing) guilty plea — 85 100 independent Scotland’s GDP, if he will provide a full Summary guilty plea 105 135 160 list of assets included to support that figure. [158420] 227W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 228W

Danny Alexander: An explanation of the invitation to tender to this effect will be issued in due course. methodology used to define the Scottish banking Funding for the new service will be recycled from the Percentage sector and calculate the size of its assets relative to the Threshold Scheme (PTS) which will end in April 2014. GDP of an independent Scottish state, and a list of the firms whose assets were included for this purpose, can be found on the UK Government website at: SCOTLAND www.gov.uk/government/publications/scotland-analysis- Accountancy financial-services-and-banking Gift Aid Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what the names, job titles, area of work, term of appointment and Civil Service equivalent grade are Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Chancellor of of personnel currently seconded to his Department the Exchequer if he will take steps to make it easier for from the big four accountancy firms. [159049] charities to access gift aid from small donations made in the workplace; and if he will make a statement. David Mundell: The Scotland Office does not have [159266] any personnel who have been seconded from the big four accountancy firms. Sajid Javid: Gift aid is a generous tax relief and is available on all donations of cash to charity from UK Capita taxpayers. However, the Government has recognised that it is not always practicable for charities to collect Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for gift aid declarations from donors making small, Scotland how much his Department currently spends impulsive donations of cash—for example through on contracts with Capita; and how much was spent in bucket or church plate collections. each year since 2008. [158472] To address this issue, the Government launched the David Mundell: The Scotland Office has no contracts Gift Aid Small Donations scheme on 6 April 2013. and has incurred no costs with Capita since 2008. This scheme allows a gift aid-style top-up payment on small cash donations for the first time. The Domestic Visits Government estimates this should be worth around £130 million a year to charities by 2015-16. Mr Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland The Government recognises the importance of how many nights (a) he and (b) other Ministers of his workplace giving, and encourages it through the Department has stayed overnight in Scotland in an Payroll Giving scheme. official capacity since 1 January 2012. [159258] Intestacy David Mundell: The Secretary of State for Scotland, the right hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (Michael Moore), and I live in Scotland in our Lindsay Roy: To ask the Chancellor of the respective constituencies and carry out official duties Exchequer how many unclaimed estates there are on all year round, as the ministerial quarterly returns the Government’s bona vacantia list. [159210] illustrate. Sajid Javid: There are 10,270 unclaimed estates on Legal Costs the bona vacantia historic list (estates dealt with between 1997 and 2012) and, at 7 June 2013, 620 Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for unclaimed estates on the current list of advertised Scotland what the 20 highest amounts paid for external estates. legal advice by his Department were in (a) 2010, (b) 2011 and (c) 2012; to whom such payments were paid; Statutory Sick Pay and for what reasons the legal advice was sought. [158625] Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he expects to (a) commence David Mundell: The Scotland Office incurred consultation and (b) report on plans for the abolition expenditure for external legal advice once between 2010 of the Percentage Threshold Scheme and recycling of and 2012 at a total cost of £2,930 in July 2012. The funding into the creation of the Health and Work payment was made to Faculty Services Ltd. Advisory Service for those at danger of long-term The Government do not specify the reasons they sickness absence. [157787] seek external legal advice.

Esther McVey: I have been asked to reply on behalf Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for of the Department for Work and Pensions. Scotland how much his Department spent on external The information requested is as follows: legal advice from Queen’s counsel (a) between 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 and (b) since 4 September (a) As announced at Budget 13, the Government will introduce targeted tax relief. Amounts up to £500, paid by 2012. [158649] employers on health-related interventions recommended by the service, will not be treated as a taxable benefit in kind. The David Mundell: The Office of the Advocate-General Government will consult on implementation later in 2013. for Scotland provides any necessary legal advice to the (b) We are currently in the early stages of designing the new Scotland Office. The Scotland Office has incurred no health and work assessment and advisory service. We expect the expenditure for external legal advice from Queen’s service to be delivered through external provision and an counsels since 7 May 2010. 229W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 230W

Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Since January 2011, central Government Scotland how much his Department spent on external Departments have been required to publish legal advice (a) between 7 May 2010 and 4 September information on all the contracts they award on 2012 and (b) since 4 September 2012. [158667] Contracts Finder.1 The Department does not have a central repository David Mundell: The Scotland Office incurred of all contract information. To collate and provide this expenditure for external legal advice once between 2010 information would incur disproportionate cost. and 2012 at a total cost of £2,930 in July 2012. www.contractsfinder.businesslink.gov.uk/ Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what the highest day rate paid for external Females: Education legal advice by his Department since 7 May 2010 was. [158684] Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what steps he is taking to work with schools David Mundell: The Scotland Office does not record to broaden girls’ education choices and aspirations. the day rates paid for external legal advice. [158996] Pensions: Tax Allowances Mr Laws: We are committed to ensuring that all Gregg McClymont: To ask the Secretary of State for pupils have the opportunity to make good progress and Scotland what recent discussions he has had with the reach their potential, regardless of their gender, or Chancellor of the Exchequer regarding the effect of other characteristics. We believe that schools are best different Scottish rates of income tax on individuals placed to know what works best for their pupils and who are members of pension schemes who operate the should lead the way in driving this forward. relief at source process for tax relief. [158181] We are supporting all young people to make informed choices by giving schools responsibility for David Mundell: During the development and securing independent and impartial careers guidance delivery of the Scotland Act 2012, Scotland Office on the full range of education and training options, Ministers and Treasury Ministers met regularly to including apprenticeships. Schools have had discuss a wide range of matters relating to the new responsibility for careers guidance since September Scottish rate of income tax, including its effect on 2012. pensions tax relief. In May 2012, HMRC published a Technical Note entitled ″Clarifying the Scope of the In addition, and with a particular emphasis on girls, Scottish Rate of Income Tax″ which set out the the Government is taking action to improve Government’s intention to continue to give tax relief engagement in STEM (science, technology, engineering on pensions individuals’ marginal rates to all taxpayers and maths) subjects. This includes funding after the Scottish rate of income tax is introduced. (£1.85 million in 2013-14) the Stimulating Physics HMRC continues to discuss the issue with the industry Network to support schools to improve progression to via its Scotland Act Pensions Technical Group to find a physics A level. method of giving relief which minimises costs to the First Aid: Curriculum industry and HMRC and ensures that contributors potential burdens on the industry are minimised and that taxpayers, as far as possible, receive the right Pauline Latham: To ask the Secretary of State for amount of relief at the right time. The most recent Education whether he has plans to introduce life saving meeting of the technical group took place in April skills as part of the National Curriculum; and if he will 2013. make a statement. [158946] Elizabeth Truss: Our proposals for the new national EDUCATION curriculum were published for consultation on 7 February 2013, and the consultation closed on 16 April Capita 2013. The proposals are based on the principle that the national curriculum should set out a body of essential Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for knowledge that children should be expected to acquire Education how much his Department currently spends in key subjects during the course of their school career. on contracts with Capita; and how much was spent in each year since 2008. [158463] We are reviewing the consultation responses, including those from organisations and individuals Elizabeth Truss: Spend with Capita, and its group of supporting the inclusion of emergency life-saving skills, companies, is shown in the table for each of the and will publish a final version of the new national requested financial years. The figures include both curriculum later in the year. contract work and work completed by Capita outside of contracts through paid invoices. Free School Meals

Financial year Spend (£) Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what amount his Department spent on free 2008 to 2009 131,750,231 school meals in each of the last five years. [159284] 2009 to 2010 67,271,804 2010 to 2011 125,565,494 Mr Laws: The funding the Department provides to 2011 to 2012 53,300,042 local authorities through the Dedicated Schools Grant 2012 to 2013 25,837,711 and to academies through the General Annual Grant 231W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 232W does not separately identify funding for free school twin or sibling from a multiple birth is admitted to the meals. The cost of free school meals is met by schools school even where that would involve the school from their overall budget, which is determined by the exceeding the infant class size limit. local authority in consultation with its School Forum. As autonomous institutions, schools have the freedom Schools: Buildings to decide how much to spend on free school meals. Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Education: Skin Cancer Education how many children are currently being taught in temporary facilities in (a) England and (b) Mr Nuttall: To ask the Secretary of State for Birmingham. [159189] Education what guidance his Department issues to schools on protecting young children from the effects Mr Laws: Local authorities in England are of overexposure to the sun. [159119] responsible for the management of the demand and supply of pupil places. The Department does not hold Elizabeth Truss: The Department does not issue information on how many children are taught in guidance on protecting young children from the effects temporary facilities as we do not collect this data from of overexposure to the sun. It is a matter for individual local authorities on how pupil places are provided. schools to decide how to advise and protect their pupils. They are best placed to determine what Schools: Finance measures are practicable to minimise any known risks arising from activities which take place in sunny Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of weather and exposure to sun during school breaks. State for Education what assessment he has made of the potential effects of proposed changes to school Higher Education: Brigg funding on the funding of (a) schools with pupils with special educational needs and (b) such schools which Andrew Percy: To ask the Secretary of State for have intermittent spare places; and if he will make a Education how many and what proportion of schools statement. [159260] in Brigg and Goole constituency sent at least one pupil to the university of (a) Oxford and (b) Cambridge in Mr Laws: In establishing new funding arrangements each of the last 10 years. [159270] for schools we have taken care to make sure (a) that local authorities have the flexibility to target resources Mr Laws: This information is not currently available to schools so that they can make effective provision for at parliamentary constituency level. pupils with special educational needs, and (b) that Destination Measures were first published by the authorities can take account of place occupancy levels Department for Education in 2012, identifying 2008/09 in setting the funding for schools with intermittent students going into 2009/10 education destinations. spare places. Our school funding system is not, They were published at national, local authority and however, designed to support a significant number of institutional level and included the proportion of empty school places indefinitely as we do not consider students who went to the universities of Oxford or that to be a proper use of taxpayers’ money. Cambridge. The publication can be found at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/destinations-of- key-stage-4-and-key-stage-5-pupils-academic-year-2009-to- DEFENCE 2010 On 20 June 2013, Destination Measures will be Afghanistan published on 2009/10 students going into 2010/11 education and employment destinations. Additional Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Destination Measures data at constituency level are Defence what his policy is on the future use of UK currently under review and may be published later in unmanned aerial vehicles in Afghanistan; and if he will the year subject to data quality considerations. make a statement. [R] [158932]

Schools: Admissions Mr Robathan: No decisions have been taken on the longer term use of unmanned aircraft systems by UK Mike Thornton: To ask the Secretary of State for forces within Afghanistan. Education what steps his Department is taking to ensure that parents with more than one child who fulfil Air Force: Training all relevant admissions criteria are able to send all their children to the same school. [159273] Mr Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what assessment he has made of the Mr Laws: Local admission authorities are airworthiness of the Grob 115E training aircraft; and if responsible for setting school admission arrangements he will make a statement. [158446] and must act in accordance with admissions law and the School Admissions Code. Many admission Mr Robathan: The Grob Tutor fleet are authorities give priority to siblings in their admissions contractor owned, civil registered aircraft operated criteria but they are not required to do so. We have no and maintained by Babcock International Group plans to amend the Code in this respect. The revised to civil European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) Code, which came into effect on 1 February 2012, does airworthiness and maintenance regulatory exceptionally permit schools to admit a child whose requirements. 233W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 234W

The Ministry of Defence (MOD) Duty Holder, Air Armed Forces: English Defence League Officer Commanding 22 (Training) Group, supported by the MOD Chief Air Engineer provides oversight of Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence the civil engineering airworthiness requirements. what recent advice has been issued to the chain of Armed Conflict: Children command on (a) membership of the English Defence League (EDL), (b) attendance at EDL marches or meetings and (c) references to EDL on social media. Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for [158318] Defence what consultation he has conducted with (a) non-governmental organisations and (b) other stakeholders to inform the preparation of the UK’s Sir Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for submission to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Defence what guidance his Department has given on Child on implementation of the Optional Protocol to membership of the English Defence League by the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the members of HM Armed Forces. [158836] Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict. [158036] Mr Francois [holding answer 6 June 2013]: In the Mr Francois: The Department for Education (DFE) wake of the appalling murder of Drummer Rigby, has the UK Government lead on reporting on this General Sir David Richards, Chief of the Defence protocol. The Ministry of Defence (MOD), along with Staff, wrote to all ranks on 23 May both to express his other Government Departments, has contributed to sympathy for Drummer Rigby’s family and to urge all the DFE work. The MOD has accordingly not held service personnel not to get drawn into the politics of any discussions with non-governmental organisations this incident. General Richards was clear that UK or any other organisations outside the MOD to inform armed forces fight to protect people of every creed. On the preparations of the UK’s submission to the UN 30 May, General Sir Peter Wall, Chief of the General Committee on the Rights of the Child on Staff, wrote to all Army Commanders and implementation of the Optional Protocol. Commanding Officers to reiterate that Queen’s Regulations forbid regular service personnel in uniform Armed Forces: Complaints from taking an active part in the affairs of any political organisation party or movement, or participating in Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for political marches or demonstrations. The Royal Navy Defence how many complaints were made by armed and Royal Air Force will also use suitable opportunities forces personnel of (a) bullying, (b) harassment and to reinforce these messages as appropriate, down to (c) sexual assault in the latest period for which figures unit level. are available; and how many such complainants were All service personnel are expected to abide by the minors at the time the incident was reported. [157763] values and standards of the British armed forces in all they do. All those who are found to fall short of these Mr Francois: Complaints of bullying and high standards or have committed an offence under the harassment can be handled through the service Armed Forces Act are dealt with administratively or complaints system, whereas allegations of sexual through the disciplinary process. Ultimately, such assault relate to potential criminal offences and are action may result in dismissal. therefore investigated by the police. The latest figures available for complaints made by Armed Forces: Mental Illness service personnel about bullying and harassment are published in the Service Complaints Commissioner’s Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for Annual Report 2012 at table 13. The full report is Defence what research his Department has presented annually to the House and is also located at commissioned or evaluated on the prevalence of (a) the following website: post-traumatic stress disorder and (b) other mental http://armedforcescomplaints.independent.gov.uk/linkedfiles/ health problems among armed forces personnel afcindependent/426354_ssc_ar_2012.pdf according to age at enlistment. [157761] In summary, during 2012 armed forces personnel made 158 formal complaints of bullying and 100 informal; Mr Francois: The Ministry of Defence has not and 38 formal complaints of harassment alongside 109 commissioned or evaluated any research which informal. As noted in the report, complaints can specifically addresses age of enlistment as a risk factor include more than one allegation. in mental health outcomes. However, this Government The age of complainants at the time the incident was is committed to providing our service personnel with reported is not held centrally and could be provided the best possible mental health care and support. Work only at disproportionate cost. is under way in a number of areas to address the For the latest information held by the Ministry of mental health needs of serving and former service Defence on sexual assault complaints made by service personnel. These include structured mental health personnel below the age of 18 at the time of the assessments, the national veterans’ mental health incident I refer the hon. Member to the answer given by network, and continued funding of research into the Minister for the Armed Forces, my right hon. post-traumatic stress disorder at King’s College by Friend the Member for South Leicestershire Professor Sir Simon Wessely and his team. Most (Mr Robathan), on 25 April 2013, Official Report, recently, in April 2013, an iPhone app was launched to columns 1255-6W, to the hon. Member for Bridgend provide serving armed forces personnel with additional (Mrs Moon). mental health support and information. 235W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 236W

Armed Forces: Qualifications Dartmouth, (c) Royal Military Academy Sandhurst and (d) the Defence Academy at Shrivenham; [156979] Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) how many individuals underwent training at (a) Defence what GCSE or Scottish Standard results newly Britannia Royal Naval College, Dartmouth, (b) Royal enlisted soldiers had gained in (a) English and (b) Military Academy, Sandhurst, (c) the Defence mathematics in (i) the infantry and (ii) the Army as a Academy, Shrivenham and (d) RAF Cranwell in each whole in the most recent year for which figures are year since 2000; and how many people are intended to available. [157759] undergo training at each establishment in each year until 2020. [156982] Mr Francois: Qualifications on entry, as recorded on the Joint Personnel Administration system, for those Mr Robathan: The following information relates only soldiers joining between 2 June 2012 and 3 June 2013 to Britannia Royal Naval College (BRNC), Royal are summarised in the following table: Military Academy Sandhurst, and RAF Cranwell. The information relating to the Defence Academy, Infantry Whole Army Shrivenham will take time to collate, and I will write to Name English Mathematics English Mathematics the hon. Member shortly. As at 23 May 2013, the number of personnel GCSE Grades A-C 960 600 4,490 2,890 undergoing training was: GCSE Grades D-G 860 580 2,420 1,470 Scottish Standards 180 160 410 370 Number Grades A-C 1 Scottish Standards ————Britannia Royal Naval College 226 Grades D-G Royal Military Academy Sandhurst 576 1 Less than five. Note: RAF Cranwell 46 All figures are rounded in accordance with Governmental statistical conventions. The number of personnel who have undergone or will undergo training at each establishment between Armed Forces: Training 2000 and 2020 is shown in the following table. Where the number is marked as not available (BRNC Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for and Cranwell in financial years 2000-01 to 2005-06), Defence (1) how many people are undergoing training the data has not been captured in electronic form and at (a) RAF Cranwell, (b) Britannia Royal College, could be provided only at disproportionate cost.

2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

BRNC n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 345 370 343 433 RMAS 627 678 679 746 719 735 721 712 707 701 Cranwell n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 540 653 810 613

2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 2015-16 2016-17 2017-18 2018-19 2019-20

BRNC 349 288 279 376 391 392 398 400 400 400 RMAS 771 682 593 591 591 591 591 591 591 591 Cranwell 348 174 199 329 350 363 376 398 386 387

Substantive answer from Andrew Robathan to Kevan 2020 is shown in the table below. This has been broken down by Jones: specific component for ease of reference. Where the number is marked “not available” this is because the information has not I undertook to write to you in my answer to your been retained. Parliamentary Questions of 3 June 2013 (Official Report, column 988W) about training. For ease of reference the areas are as follows: The Defence Academy is a complex Training and Education Armed Forces Chaplaincy Centre (AFCC)—Figures are only (T&E) establishment which has its HQ based at Shrivenham, but available since 2006 as AFCC was not part of the Academy also has integral components which deliver courses at other before then. geographical sites. The figures below are for all types of T&E Defence Academy College of Management Technology—DA delivered at all sites. CMT was not formed in its current structure until 2009 and As at 23 May 2013, the Defence Academy had approx. 2,474 figures are not available before this time. students undertaking various types of short and longer term Defence Centre of Training Support (DCTS)—Not part of T&E. DA until 2012. The number of personnel that have undergone, or will Joint Service Command Staff College (JSCSC) undergo training at the Defence Academy between 2000 and Royal College of Defence Studies (RCDS)

00-01 01-02 02-03 03-04 04-05 05-06 06-07 07-08 08-09 09-10

DA—AFCC n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 1300 1300 1300 681 2437 CMT n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 58500 44500 DCTS n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 237W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 238W

00-01 01-02 02-03 03-04 04-05 05-06 06-07 07-08 08-09 09-10

JSCSC n/a 2188 2227 1909 1772 1525 n/a n/a 2618 3081 RCDS 87 93 95 94 90 95 98 102 112 92

10-11 11-12 12-13 13-14 14-15 15-16 16-17 17-18 18-19 19-20

DA—AFCC 854 1059 1059 1059 1059 1059 1059 1059 1059 1059 CMT 31656 22355 22355 22355 22355 22355 22355 22355 22355 22355 DCTS n/a 1670 1914 1914 1914 1914 1914 1914 1914 1914 JSCSC 2846 2452 1694 2339 2366 2212 2269 2187 2187 2187 RCDS 115 119 114 100 100 100 100 100 100 100

I have also made arrangements for the Defence Academy Mr Francois: Given the central importance of Training and Education Statistical Analysis publication to be readiness for operations, training lies at the core of placed in the House of Commons Library should you wish to what we do and is a vital component of professional review it. development for every single member of the armed forces. However, key stages 1 and 2 are attainment Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for levels for children of primary school age and as such Defence what steps are taken to ensure that training are not provided for members of the armed forces. exercises for minors in the armed forces are suitable for The Department for Education (DFE) makes no their age and relative physical and psychological contribution to the provision of military training for maturity. [157764] members of the armed forces. The Ministry of Defence MOD) has worked closely with the DFE on the Mr Francois: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) recently announced Troops to Teachers programme, recognises that the care and training of military which aims to make it easier for highly-skilled former personnel under the age of 18 requires particular members of the Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air attention, as made clear in the Armed Forces Force to become teachers. Covenant. Over 10,000 apprenticeships were completed by MOD policy on the care and training of all military members of the armed forces in academic year personnel, including those under the age of 18, 2011-12. However, the specific MOD costs associated undertaking Phase 1 and Phase 2 training is set out in with apprenticeships are not easily separated from Joint Service Publication 898—Catalogue of Defence other areas of the training budget and could be Policies with Impact on Training and Education. This provided only at disproportionate cost. includes guidance on factors that should be considered as part of a Unit Commander’s Risk Assessment (CRA). The CRA must take account of any particular Army: Redundancy or local factors and must contain a detailed analysis of the trainee population, the type of issues they generate Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for and the nature of training and education being Defence what steps his Department is taking to undertaken. support soldiers who will be made redundant as a No trainee will be released from Phase 2 training result of the planned reductions in the size of the until commanders are content that the individual has Army. [159209] reached the required level of knowledge and maturity required for their chosen trade. Beyond Phase 2 Dr Murrison: Assisting our former service personnel training, Commanding Officers have a continuing duty transition to civilian employment is of major of care for the welfare and ongoing training needs of importance to the Department. All service personnel all personnel under their command. selected for redundancy receive financial compensation and a comprehensive resettlement package to help Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for them find a job and transition to life outside the armed Defence (1) what financial contribution the forces. Department for Education makes to the provision of Soldiers being made redundant in Tranche 3 will training for members of the armed forces; [159201] qualify for the normal resettlement package available (2) in what ways his Department co-ordinates with to all armed forces personnel. In addition, as part of the Department for Education to provide training for the special arrangements for redundancy all Army members of the armed forces; [159202] personnel will receive the same level of graduated resettlement time (GRT) and training to which they (3) how much his Department spends annually on would have been entitled had they completed their full training members of the (a) Army, (b) Royal Air commission or engagement. GRT is flexible time which Force and (c) Royal Navy to reach (i) Key Stage 1 and may be used by personnel to complete training courses, (ii) Key Stage 2; [159203] civilian work attachments and resettlement activities (4) how much his Department spends annually on such as job and house hunting. Also, to help families providing members of the (a) Army, (b) Royal Air find accommodation, they may retain their service Force and (c) Royal Navy with apprenticeships. families’ accommodation for up to 93 days after their [159204] discharge. 239W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 240W

The resettlement package includes financial briefings Mr Robathan: The Urban Warrior 5 trial seeks to covering budget and debt management, specialist explore how various simulation methods can be used to housing advice, and advice on the importance of aid decision making for major combat operations. seeking medical help, including the ability to access Urban Warrior 5 also provided an opportunity to mental health services, should they feel it necessary. further develop the effectiveness of an Armoured Further support is available through the Career Infantry Company Group as part of the new Army Transition Partnership (CTP) in the form of training 2020 structure. Evaluation of the trial is still in progress courses; career transition workshops; employment and and it is expected that the results will not be available future career advice; assistance with curriculum vitae before autumn 2013. writing and job preparation; vocational training; and a Radar: Hebrides job-search/recruitment facility. The CTP also run ‘Right Job’—a bespoke online job Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for finding service, listing thousands of live vacancies Defence whether the operation of the radar at which are updated on a daily basis. Right Job assists Rangehead is for test facility or for national security. the service leaver in finding a job they believe is right [158697] for them, and enables employers to find qualified candidates who are leaving the armed forces. This Mr Robathan: Radar equipment located in the service is free of charge to both service leavers and vicinity of Rangehead on South Uist supports test, employers. evaluation and training activities that are conducted at Historically, over 90% of those service personnel the Ministry of Defence Hebrides Range. who use the CTP to seek employment secure it within Radar: Wind Power six months of discharge. Service leavers are entitled to lifetime job finding Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for support through either the Officers Association or the Defence what progress has been made with the Regular Forces Employment Association. development of technology to allow radar to function effectively with wind turbines in line of sight situations; Libya what plans he has to roll out such technology; and when he anticipates the installations of such technology in the Hebrides Range. [158699] Mr Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how much his Department’s work in Libya Dr Murrison: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) does counted towards the UK’s Overseas Development not have responsibility for developing technologies Assistance target. [158447] capable of mitigating wind farms. The MOD does continue to work closely with the wind farm industry Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence’s (MOD) to identify mitigations for Air Defence (AD) and Air military operation in Libya was not eligible to be Traffic Control radars (ATC). Wind farm developers counted as overseas development assistance (ODA). have so far funded the implementation of new AD The MOD’s Defence Advisory Team which works radars at Remote Radar Heads Trimingham and on capacity building and security sector reform were Brizlee Wood, with a third due to be installed at counted as partially ODA eligible for financial year Remote Radar Head Staxton Wold shortly. For ATC (FY) 2012-13. The total value of ODA spend on Libya Radars, the MOD will conduct a Technology from these activities in FY 2012-13 was approximately Demonstration (TD) of potential solutions during £295,000. July/August 2013, and a report will be issued in the autumn of 2013. This TD is not being funded by the As ODA is reported by calendar year, final details of MOD. 2012 expenditure will not be available until they are published in Statistics on International Development in The MOD intends to upgrade the T92 Radar at the autumn. Clettraval on North Uist in the next five years, but exact timings have yet to be determined. Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Reorganisation Defence when he has visited Libya in 2013; what the (a) dates and (b) purpose was of each such visit; and Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for whom he met during each such visit. [158999] Defence what steps he is taking to ensure that his Department’s new Operating Model is being Mr Philip Hammond: I have not visited Libya in implemented and the desired effects are achieved. 2013. However, the Minister for International Security [158733] Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison), did visit Tripoli in April this Mr Philip Hammond: The new Defence Operating year for discussions about naval co-operation. Model was put in place, as planned, on 2 April 2013 at Initial Operating Capability and over the next year we will be optimising it to ensure that the Department is Military Exercises best placed to deliver the benefits envisaged by Lord Levene’s Defence Reform Review for a simpler, more Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for effective, better skilled and less bureaucratic Defence what assessment he has made of the use of organisation. These changes are at the heart of how we Urban Warrior 5 technology in recent training are delivering our part of the pan-Government Civil exercises; and if he will make a statement. [158732] Service Reform plan. Defence Reform is managed as 241W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 242W one of the programmes in the Defence Transformation For the period 2010 to 2015, the bespoke services Portfolio which directs, co-ordinates and drives covered by the agreement provided substantial financial forward implementation of the major change savings of around £92 million. In addition, central initiatives. I oversee progress routinely through the Government negotiated improved mobile telephony tariffs Defence Board. Lord Levene also reviews progress with Vodafone (an enabling arrangement under the annually against his recommendations, reporting to DFTS agreement) and have realised a further direct me. Progress is reported to Parliament, including saving of £6 million. Central Government has also through the Prime Minister’s annual report on the negotiated a further 1% off direct use of BT digital National Security Strategy and Strategic Defence and private circuits and further discounts have been achieved Security Review, the MOD’s Annual Report and on telephone line rentals. Accounts, and publication of Lord Levene’s annual Where negotiable, standard BT products and services progress report. are accompanied by discounts, including reductions in the departmental telephone bill. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Some non-financial benefits have also been realised Defence how the new Operating Model will affect his as a result of the DFTS agreement. These include Department; and if he will make a statement. [158737] increased bandwidth for the Defence Information Infrastructure (DII—the departmental ICT network) Mr Philip Hammond: The new Operating Model will which has enhanced network capability. lead to: Net programme delivery risk reduced through empowered Unmanned Air Vehicles financial and capability delegation for delivery to the Command or Top Level Budget area best able to manage it including better Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for management of joint enablers; Defence how many qualified unmanned aerial vehicle Increasingly efficient and effective delivery of operational outputs pilots are currently employed by the Royal Air Force. through increased freedoms to manage capability generation across [158752] the Defence Lines of Development; Non-front line costs reduced as a proportion of overall Defence Mr Robathan: There are currently 36 Royal Air Force expenditure through a smaller more professional MOD and more personnel qualified to pilot remotely piloted air systems. efficient, customer focused support from our corporate service providers; Wind Power A better skilled, motivated and engaged work force through improved leadership, targeted education and training and more Chris Heaton-Harris: To ask the Secretary of State efficient structures and processes; and for Defence how much his Department has spent on Increased levels of trust through improved top level decision funding technical demonstrators to assist the making, more transparent processes and improved communications. development of wind farms in the last five years. [R] [158144] Royal Fleet Auxiliary Mr Dunne: The Ministry of Defence has contributed Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for £45,000 of funding to Technology Demonstrator Defence whether his Department has estimated the Programmes to assist in the development of wind farms cost of extending the in-service life of RFA Fort in the last five years. The Department has also closely Rosalie and RFA Fort Austin beyond their retirement monitored the development of radar technologies and dates of 2022 and 2021. [158609] supported trials to assess the maturity of commercial wind farm mitigation solutions. Mr Dunne: As part of our regular budgetary cycles, we routinely examine a range of options for delivering military capability in the most cost-effective manner. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE One of these options led to the decision, in 2011, to extend the service lives of RFA Fort Rosalie and RFA Accountancy Fort Austin to 2024 and 2023 respectively. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Telephone Services Energy and Climate Change what the names, job titles, area of work, term of appointment and Civil Service John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for equivalent grade are of personnel currently seconded Defence whether his Department receives any financial to his Department from the big four accountancy or non-financial benefit from its telephone providers firms. [159042] for telephone lines that (a) his Department and (b) the Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and agencies for which he is responsible operate, including Climate Change does not have any people currently but not limited to (i) a share of call revenue, (ii) a seconded from the big four accountancy firms. reduction in the Department’s telephone bill or tariff and (iii) telephony services for free or at a reduced Energy: Coventry price. [157734] Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Francois: Telecommunications, including telephone Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made lines and services, are provided to the Ministry of of the average proportion of household expenditure on Defence and its agencies via the Defence Fixed energy bills in (a) Coventry and (b) Coventry North Telecommunications Service (DFTS) Agreement with East constituency in the latest period for which figures British Telecom (BT). are available. [159278] 243W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 244W

Gregory Barker: The latest available data cover the Mrs Grant: Since 2010 the Government Equalities years 2009-11. This suggests that during this period in Office has provided £1,085,000 towards the funding of the west midlands, the average proportion of expenditure Rape Crisis Centres. on electricity, gas and other fuels was 5.0%. This compares with 4.6% for the UK as a whole. These data are from the Living Costs and Food Survey, run by the Office for Regulation National Statistics (ONS). Data from this survey are not available at a lower level than that of regions. Priti Patel: To ask the Minister for Women and Therefore data for Coventry and Coventry North East Equalities what processes the Government Equalities constituency are not available. Office has put in place to (a) monitor, (b) collate cost Energy: Disconnections information on, (c) review and (d) respond to requests to amend or revoke regulations introduced by the Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Government Equalities Office. [155796] and Climate Change how many households in the UK were disconnected by their (a) energy and (b) gas Mrs Grant: The Statement of New Regulation is a supplier in 2010-11. [158536] Government-wide publication that lists regulatory and deregulatory measures and their expected impact on Michael Fallon: Ofgem monitors and publishes businesses. information about disconnections of domestic electricity supplies in its Domestic Supplies’ Obligations Annual GEO has used the Red Tape Challenge process to Reports: review existing regulations, and in particular invite requests from stakeholders to amend or revoke regulations that http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustainability/SocAction/ impose unnecessary burdens on business. Monitoring/SoObMonitor/Pages/SocObMonitor.aspx In 2010, 1,988 domestic electricity and 813 domestic Priti Patel: To ask the Minister for Women and gas supplies were disconnected due to debt. In 2011, Equalities if she will provide the estimated cost of each 921 domestic electricity and 331 gas customer supplies regulation introduced by the Government Equalities were disconnected due to debt. Office since May 2010; and what the estimated benefits Warm Front Scheme of each regulation (a) amended and (b) revoked were. [155962] Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change whether he has made an Mrs Grant: The information requested is provided in assessment of the effects of the closure of the Warm the following table based on the following definitions: Front Scheme on (a) levels of fuel poverty and (b) the Regulation: a measure within scope of the one-in, one-out number of energy efficient homes. [159279] (OIOO) or one-in, two-out (OITO) Gregory Barker: The Warm Front scheme has been a Introduced: the date at which a regulation came into force key policy in tackling fuel poverty among private sector Business impact: the annual net cost to business (negative households in England though the installation of a should be interpreted as benefits). range of heating, insulation and other energy efficiency The one-in, one-out rule came into force in January measures. The last year of Warm Front’s operation was 2011. The one-in, two-out rule replaced the one-in, 2012-13 and to ensure there was no gap in the support one-out rule from January 2013. EU derived regulatory for vulnerable households the Energy Company Obligation measures are out of scope of OIOO and OITO. The was introduced in January 2013. machinery of government change brought the Government The energy company obligation is expected to lead to Equalities Office (GEO) under control of the Secretary more cost-effective delivery of measures to low income, of State for Culture, Media and Sport in September vulnerable households. 2012. This table also covers the period when GEO was under the control of the Home Secretary. Under Warm Front in 2010-11, around 80,000 households received major heating and/or insulation Business measures from a budget of £366 million. By contrast, impact the ECO Affordable Warmth obligation is expected to (£ deliver heating and insulation measures to around 130,000 Title of regulation Introduced Legislation million) households each year of the scheme for an annual cost Positive Action—recruitment 6 April New 0.0 OIOO of around £350 million. Coupled with the ECO Carbon and promotion in 2011 employment (section 159 Saving Communities obligation, worth around £190 million Equality Act 2010) per annum, we expect some 230,000 low income households The Media Ownership (Radio 15 June Amend 0.0 OIOO to be assisted each scheme year. We also expect the and Cross-Media) Order 2011 2011 main ECO carbon obligation to assist further low income The Gambling Act 2005 13 July Amend -8.6 OIOO households. (Gaming Machines in Adult 2011 Gaming Centres and Bingo Premises) Order 2011 WOMEN AND EQUALITIES The Marriages and Civil 5 New 0.0 OIOO Partnerships (Approved December Rape: Victim Support Schemes Premises) (Amendment) 2011 Regulations 2011 Steve McCabe: To ask the Minister for Women and The Local Television 14 Amend 0.0 OIOO Programme Services Order February Equalities how much funding was provided to rape 2012 2012 crisis centres in each year since 2010. [154602] 245W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 246W

disabled and older customers via e-mail, SMS, instant Business impact messenger, text relay and Video Relay Services (VRS). (£ These initiatives will assist many people who are deaf Title of regulation Introduced Legislation million) and hearing impaired. The Gambling (Operating 6 April Amend -0.7 OIOO The information on measures taken by the Department’s Licence and Single-Machine 2012 agencies and arm’s length bodies is not held centrally. Permit Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 The Gambling Act 2005 22 June Amend -0.1 OIOO Swimming Pools (Amendment of Schedule 6) 2012 Order 2012 The Broadcasting (Local 12 July Amend 0.0 OIOO Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Digital Television Programme 2012 Culture, Media and Sport how much funding from the Services and Independent Productions) (Amendment) public purse has been allocated to the building of Order 2012 Olympic-sized swimming pools in each year for which The Video Recordings 30 July Amend 0.0 OIOO information is available. [156827] (Labelling) Regulations 2012 2012 The Live Music Act 2012 1 October Amend -0.4 OIOO (Commencement) Order 2012 Hugh Robertson: The table sets out Sport England The Equality Act 2010 (Age 1 October New 0.0 OIOO funding (through the Lottery and from the Exchequer). Exceptions) Order 2012 2012 We do not have records of other sources of public The Legal Deposit Libraries 6 April Amend -0.8 OITO funding. (Non-Print Works) 2013 Regulations 2013 The ’years’ column sets out the year the award was made, as some facilities were paid over a number of years.

CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Funding (£) Pay 2001 21,901,662 2002 43,199,000 2006 4,022,668 Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, 2007 11,299,000 Media and Sport how many employees in her 2008 5,990,000 Department were paid in excess of (a) £80,000 and (b) 2009 2,870,450 £100,000 in (i) 2012 and (ii) 2013. [156748] 2010 1,990,000 2011 34,000,000 Hugh Robertson [holding answer 3 June 2013]: The 2012 1,200,000 number of employees paid in excess of (a) £80,000 and Total 126,472,780 (b) £100,000 in (i) 2012 and (ii) 2013 is shown in the table. Historical data is also provided to highlight the context.

In excess of £80,000 In excess of £100,000 ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS

2013 5 1 Bovine Tuberculosis 2012 14 9 2011 12 7 2010 16 7 Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009 15 8 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs with reference to 2008 14 4 his written statement of 27 February 2013, Official Report, column 28WS, on bovine TB, what criteria will Sign Language be used to test his Department’s assumptions about the effectiveness, humaneness and safety of shooting Sir Malcolm Bruce: To ask the Secretary of State for badgers in the proposed cull pilots. [158029] Culture, Media and Sport what specific measures her Department has in place to ensure that deaf people Mr Heath: Independent monitoring will be undertaken have the opportunity to communicate in British Sign to assess the effectiveness, humaneness and safety of Language with (a) cultural, media, sporting and controlled shooting during the pilots. The design of this business organisations and (b) the agencies and public monitoring has been overseen by an independent panel bodies for which she is responsible. [157587] of experts, who have advised on the appropriate methods for monitoring, which will include field observations Mr Vaizey: We recognise the importance of removing and post mortems. Further details of the monitoring the barriers deaf and hearing impaired people face, protocols are available online at the following link and I where they might otherwise be at a substantial disadvantage have also placed copies in the Library of the House. compared to the way others access a particular service. http://www.defra.gov.uk/animal-diseases/a-z/bovine-tb/ The Minister for Disabled People, my hon. Friend badgers/badger-culling-pilots/ the Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey), and I The independent panel will evaluate the pilots before have written to organisations to explore how they can reporting back to Government. Ministers will then meet the needs of BSL customers, through developing decide whether the policy should be rolled out more a mix of accessible contact strategies for their widely. 247W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 248W

Cattle: Vaccination movements in the Consumer Price Index for (a) food and non-alcoholic beverages and (b) vegetable Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for products for people’s dietary choices. [158532] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what the current status is of his discussions with the European Mr Heath [holding answer 10 June 2013]: DEFRA Commission on cattle vaccine trials in England; and if actively monitors retail food prices and their impact on he will make a statement; [157835] household expenditure through its Family Food Survey. (2) what recent progress he has made on discussions We know that some households are seeing the amount with the European Commission on cattle vaccine trials they spend on food and non-alcoholic beverages increase in England; and if he will make a statement. [158030] and there is evidence that households are trading down to cheaper products. On average in 2011 food and Mr Heath: EU Commissioner Tonio Borg wrote to non-alcoholic beverages accounted for 11.3% of all the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural household expenditure, up from 10.8% in 2008. Affairs, the right hon. Member for North Shropshire The amount UK households spend on fresh and (Mr Paterson), on 14 January 2013 setting out the processed vegetables has been increasing, reflecting price substantial scientific evidence that will be needed before increases. However, the 2011 Family Food Survey reported any decision can be taken on lifting the current EU ban that in 2011 purchases of ’5 a day’ were unchanged for on cattle vaccination. For that reason, his view is that it the third consecutive year, at an average of four portions would be reasonable to expect the full process to take per person per day. 10 years. The Secretary of State and I will continue to Public Health England, in partnership with Health discuss this important issue with the Commissioner as Departments across the UK, monitors the food and when the need arises. consumption and nutrient intakes of the general population We are looking for ways to accelerate the work we using data from the National Diet and Nutrition Survey were already doing on the required experimental research (NDNS). Results from the survey are published regularly, and planning the subsequent large scale trialling of the and are reviewed by the Scientific Advisory Committee vaccine that the Commissioner regards as the essential on Nutrition (SACN). The most recent results were next step. We hope to have successfully completed all published in July 2012.1 the experimental work, including studies on safety of We work internationally to promote transparency, meat and milk, during 2014 so that we can make an open global markets and a competitive domestic market application to the Veterinary Medicines Directorate for to help producers and retailers offer the best prices to an Animal Test Certificate to begin the necessary field consumers. trials. 1 Bates B, Lennox A, Prentice A, Bates C, and Swan G (Eds.) Dairy Products: Exports (2012) National Diet and Nutrition Survey. Headline results from Years 1, 2 and 3 (combined) of the rolling programme (2008-09— 2010-11) Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps he is taking to work with UK Trade and Investment to Wines increase the volume of exports of English dairy products. [159200] Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps he is Mr Heath: The Government is helping industry to taking to support English wine production. [159196] address the current dairy trade deficit by increasing the proportion of British dairy products sold in the domestic Mr Heath: During the 2008 EU Wine Reform the market and by increasing exports. UK successfully negotiated a derogation to allow the DEFRA and UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) are scope of UK wine production to increase without the working closely together and with the dairy industry to threat of our vine plantings being capped by the controls drive growth. They are increasing the dairy industry’s that exist in the main EU wine producing countries. awareness of and capability for exporting, as part of This outcome was warmly welcomed by the English DEFRA and UKTI’s Exports Action Plan and UKTI’s wine industry. The reform also allowed the UK to business plan for food and drink sectors which includes establish a national programme to assist the development specific work with the dairy sector. of the domestic wine industry. After consulting with the Key work includes: industry, funding is now being provided through the seminars; Rural Development Programme for England (RDPE) improved liaison and exports services; on training to further increase skills and knowledge in this rapidly developing sector. We are also working supporting applications for protected food names; closely with the UK wine industry to exploit promotion developing a “British dairy message” to work alongside both and marketing opportunities offered by the EU scheme the GREAT campaign and commercial brands; and for Protected Designations. assisting dairy companies to reach new markets through international trade missions. Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Food: Prices Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will visit the Wroxeter Vineyard in Shrewsbury and Atcham Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for constituency to gain information which will assist him Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment in assessing what steps need to be taken to reduce the he has made of the implications of recent price regulatory burden in that sector. [159199] 249W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 250W

Mr Heath: The Government has an ongoing commitment In addition, departments publish details of spend at: to reduce the regulatory burdens faced by UK business http://data.gov.uk and the public. The Red Tape Challenge was launched The following expenditure with Capita is recorded as a means to capture ideas on where the regulatory for the Department (including UK Trade and Investment burden could be reduced, to highlight which regulations Admin). are working and which ones are not working and to assess where things could be simplified. I would urge Financial year £ the proprietor of Wroxeter Vineyard to submit suggestions to the ’Challenge’, which can be done online at: 2008/09 31,092,921 www.redtapechallenge.cabinetoffice.gov.uk 2009/10 89,783 I would also be interested to see any ideas directly in 2010/11 335,704 writing. 2011/12 390,576 I sincerely hope that at some point in the future I am 2012/13 1,872,226 able to visit Wroxeter Vineyard to see and hear more 2013/14 (up to 4 June 2013) 580,523 about our acclaimed and increasingly successful UK wine production sector. This data excludes NDPBs as this information is not held centrally. The majority of the expenditure for 2008/09 relates to BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS the contract for the Coal Health scheme. This area of work fell under the Department’s remit prior to the Business: Loans formation of the Department of Energy and Climate Change. Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for The majority of expenditure since 2012/13 has been Business, Innovation and Skills how many full-time made under framework agreements. These agreements equivalent staff in his Department are currently cover both generic training and development, and the working on the business bank; in which office these recruitment of specialist contractors and interims within staff are based; in which directorate or directorates the Department. they are employed; how many such staff were previously employed in his Department before the business bank work stream was initiated; and how Charity Research Support Fund many of those were employed in the same directorate with his Department before the business bank work Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of stream was initiated. [159029] State for Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has to support the Charity Research Support Fund. Michael Fallon: There are currently 33.4 full-time [159267] equivalent staff working on the business bank initiative from the Department’s London and Sheffield offices. Mr Willetts: The Government recognise the significant These staff are predominantly employed in the contribution made by charitable funders of research. Department’s Enterprise Directorate and Shareholder The charity support element of Quality Related research Executive directorates. Of these staff, 27 full-time equivalents funding, provided by the Higher Education Funding were previously working in the Department in a range Council for England, recognises the public benefit arising of areas including SME Access to Finance. 3.5 of these from research funded by charities. full-time equivalents were previously in the Shareholder Executive. The Government is committed to reducing the deficit and rebalancing the economy to achieve sustainable Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for growth—for which the UK’s excellent research base will Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to his be a vital national asset. I cannot anticipate the outcome announcement on 10 April 2013 of additional funding of the spending review which will determine levels of for lending to small and medium-sized enterprises, how future funding and subsequent detailed allocations. many expressions of interest have been received from lenders to date. [159031] Credit: Advertising Michael Fallon: As at 3 June we had received 50 expressions of interest from a wide variety of lenders. Mr George Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State The Investment Programme continues to remain open for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is to new proposals. taking to ban the advertising of payday loans on television. [158690] Capita Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Jo Swinson: The Government is very concerned at Business, Innovation and Skills how much his aggressive, misleading advertising which lures consumers Department currently spends on contracts with Capita; into a payday loan when it is not suitable for them. It is and how much was spent in each year since 2008. not right to see payday advertising outside job centres, [158457] as the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) found, nor is it right for adverts to emphasise speed and ease of access Jo Swinson: Since January 2011, central Government at the expense of giving customers balanced information Departments have been required to publish information about the cost of lending. This is why Government and on the contracts they award at: regulators announced in March this year a strong action www.contractsfinder.businesslink.gov.uk/ plan with both immediate and longer-term measures. 251W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 252W

In the short-term, the OFT are taking stringent action Factories: Foreign Workers on non-compliant payday lenders as a top enforcement priority.Then, from April next year, the Financial Conduct Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for Authority (FCA) will take on responsibility for regulating Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has consumer credit. Its strong new powers will enable it to made of the role that British businesses can play in restrict the form and content of advertising and will ensuring the welfare of workers in factories abroad. provide further consumer protections. This Department [159245] is in the process of commissioning research into payday lending advertising to help inform the FCA’s thinking Jo Swinson: Responsible supply chain management is on how to apply their rules in this area. an important issue, which good businesses should The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) also understand and take seriously as part of their corporate have a role in tackling payday lending advertising. If responsibility activities. From October 2013, listed they deem a particular advert to be potentially misleading companies will be required to report on community, or socially irresponsible, they can ban it. Indeed, only employee and human rights issues including through recently they banned a payday loan advert by PDB UK their supply chains. Ltd, trading as Cash Lady, on these grounds. Their Later this year, we will publish a framework for ruling can be accessed at: action on corporate responsibility, which will consider, www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2013/5/PDB-UK-Ltd/ among other things, supply chain management. SHP_ADJ_219095.aspx Overseas Companies The ASA have recently issued a consumer information statement on their website setting out their role and Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for urging consumers to contact them if they see a problematic Business, Innovation and Skills what statistics are (a) advert. For further details please see: collected, (b) commissioned and (c) subscribed to by www.asa.org.uk/News-resources/Media-Centre/2013/Payday- UK Trade and Investment on (i) the number of UK loan-ads.aspx firms operating in each country overseas, (ii) the size of their operations, (iii) the degree of their market Credit: Licensing penetration and (iv) the performance of UK firms against competitors. [159030] Pamela Nash: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what the average Michael Fallon: UK Trade and Investment relies primarily waiting time for a consumer credit licence to be issued on statistics collected by a range of other national and from the date of application to the date of issue is in international organisations. Details of these sources are (a) Scotland and (b) the rest of the UK. [159228] set out here by topic. In addition, UKTI commissions an annual survey of around 900 UK firms who export Jo Swinson: For Scotland, the annual figures for 2010 which collects detailed data on international business to 2012 show a range between a mean average of 21 strategies, modes of engagement in international business, days in 2012 to a mean average of 26 in 2011. and the size of their international sales relative to their total sales. Full reports on these surveys are available at For England, Wales and Northern Ireland, the annual the following link: figures for 2010 to 2012 show a range between a mean average of 23 days in 2012 to a mean average of 27 in http://www.ukti.gov.uk/uktihome/aboutukti/ourperformance/ research/barrierstointernationalisation.html 2011. Other sources of statistics used by UKTI: Total number of Mean average processing (i) The number of firms operating in each country applications time (working days) overseas: 2010 2011 2012 2010 2011 2012 These data are available for the UK for goods exports Scotland 507 431 457 23 26 21 only, from the following: England, Wales 7,027 6,592 6,455 23 27 23 HMRC RTS and Northern Ireland https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/ default.aspx Employment Tribunals Service Eurostat TEC http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/ index.php/international_trade_by_enterprise_characteristics Ian Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer (ii) The size of their overseas operations of 13 May 2013, Official Report, column 85W, on UKTI has recently commissioned academic researchers unfair dismissal, if he has conducted an evaluation of from LSE to undertake analysis of data on this topic the effect of the decision to allow employment tribunal from the ONS International Trade in Services Survey judges to sit alone. [159274] and on HMRC data on goods exports. Results for the goods exports analysis are expected in July, and on the Jo Swinson: I refer the hon. Member to my previous analysis of services data later this year. response of 13 May 2013, Official Report, column 85W. Some data on the value of firms’ overseas sales are The Department is working with Her Majesty’s Courts also collected annually for a sample of firms through and Tribunal Service (HMCTS) to collect data to evaluate the UKTI ‘Internationalisation Strategies, Barriers, and the impact of a number of employment tribunal policy Awareness’ survey, cited above. This survey does not measures such as employment tribunal judges to sit collect data on size of operations within any individual alone in unfair dismissal cases. overseas country. 253W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 254W

(iii) the degree of market penetration and (iv) their Overseas Trade: BRIC Countries performance vis-à-vis competitors UKTI draws on statistics from a range of international Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for sources for analysis of these issues, as follows. UKTI Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has receives a regular report on UK trade performance made of the importance of improving bilateral trading globally and in 29 key markets, which is prepared by relationships with the BRIC countries. [158740] BIS statisticians using these international sources. The ways in which these statistical sources are used to investigate Michael Fallon: The 2011 Trade & Investment for these issues in further depth are illustrated in a recent Growth White Paper set out the reasons why it is in the BIS Economics Paper on UK trade performance across UK national interest to ensure Britain can take advantage markets and sectors, available at the following link: of opportunities for future prosperity through bilateral https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-trade- trade and investment with Brazil, Russia, India and performance-across-markets-and-sectors China. HMRC OTS Following on from this, UK Trade & Investment https://www.uktradeinfo.com/ (UKTI), working with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, deployed a range of criteria in its 2011 corporate Various ONS trade and FDI publications strategy to assess which emerging and high growth http://www.ons.gov.uk markets to focus on. These included: UN Comtrade market size and potential for growth; the Government’s assessment http://comtrade.un.org/ of their strategic political and economic importance; an assessment of the security situation; strength of scientific, technical and UN Services Trade research base; performance of UK businesses relative to competitors; http://unstats.un.org/unsd/servicetrade/default.aspx market match with UK capability; and the presence of active ITC/TradeMap local partners keen to strengthen trading links with the UK. These criteria enabled UKTI to identify twenty markets http://www.trademap.org/tm_light/SelectionMenu.aspx (including Brazil, Russia, India and China) where efforts OECD.stat to improve bilateral trade will particularly benefit UK http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx growth. The Government is also among the main advocates Eurostat Easy Comext for the EU’s work to liberalise trade with these economies, through the EU’s ambitious programme of bilateral http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/newxtweb/mainxtnet.do trade negotiations and through work at the World Trade UNCTAD.stat Organisation. http://unctadstat.unctad.org/TableViewer/tableView.aspx Between 2009 and 2012 UK goods exports to Brazil World Trade Organization (WTO) increased by 49%, to Russia by 133%, to India by 59% and to China by 96%, demonstrating the importance of http://stat.wto.org/StatisticalProgram/ WSDBStatProgramHome.aspx?Lanquage=E bilateral trade with these markets. Overseas Trade: Central America Overseas Companies: Developing Countries Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Jim Sheridan: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking he has had with the Secretary of State for Foreign and to improve the transparency of UK companies Commonwealth Affairs about the potential for operating in developing countries. [158734] improving the UK’s bilateral trading relationship with countries in Central America. [158739] Jo Swinson: We have successfully pressed for strong rules within the accounting directive to ensure that oil, Michael Fallon: In conjunction with other ministerial gas, mining and forestry companies report the payments colleagues, including the Secretary of State for Foreign they make to governments in all of the countries where and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the they operate. These rules will apply to all large and Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), the National listed companies across the EU. This is designed to Security Council regularly reviews the UK’s bilateral shine a light on where this money is actually going, trading relationships on a global basis. allowing citizens to hold their governments to account The Government is also among the principal advocates over how it is spent and ensure the sale of their natural for the EU’s work to liberalise trade, be that through resources benefits the many, not the few. the EU’s ambitious programme of bilateral trade Last month, the UK Government signed up to the negotiations or through work at the World Trade Extractive Industry Transparency Initiative (EITI); a Organisation, with a view to overcoming tariff and global standard ensuring transparency in this sector. It non-tariff barriers that UK companies face when trying is important that we get our own house in order if we to export manufactured goods. Six of the seven Central are to influence other countries. As the UK’s EITI American countries have signed an Association Agreement Champion, I am responsible for driving implementation with the European Union; the agreement includes a in the UK, working with industry and civil society to large trade chapter. ensure we provide information that stimulates public It is also the Government’s commitment to give new debate. The first public event designed to shape the energy to the relationship the UK has with Latin America. UK’s EITI will be held on 9 July 2013 at the BIS Our objective is to reinvigorate relationships and place Conference Centre. ourselves as partner of choice in the region. We have 255W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 256W strengthened our diplomatic presence on the ground The purpose of the scholarship scheme is to provide and significantly increased the number of ministerial support to subjects where there are difficulties recruiting visits. Under what has now become known as the Canning sufficient high-quality candidates to initial teacher training Agenda, we have established a network of prosperity (ITT). Through our bursary scheme, we currently recruit officers in the region which enables us to remove some sufficient high-quality candidates to primary ITT.Therefore, of the barriers to trade and develop commercial we have no current plans to extend the chemistry ITT opportunities for UK business in the region. scholarship scheme to primary ITT. Our engagement activity in Central America is resulting in enhanced and deepened bilateral relationships. Last Textiles: Apprentices November a new British embassy opened in El Salvador. We have also established a stronger relationship with Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Panama. Our assistance in the recent establishment of Business, Innovation and Skills how many the British International School in Panama will promote apprenticeships have been created in the textiles the English language and British educational expertise industry in (a) Barnsley Central constituency, (b) in support of Panama’s education reforms. The UK South Yorkshire and (c) England in (i) 2010, (ii) 2011 trade mission to Nicaragua in February 2013 was the and (iii) 2012. [159120] first in many years and is a concrete example of how UK businesses are re-engaging with the region. Matthew Hancock: The following table shows the number of apprenticeship programme starts in the ’Fashion Refrigeration and Textiles’ Framework in: Barnsley Central constituency, Yorkshire and the Humber and England. Final data are shown for the 2009/10 to 2011/12 academic years. We Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for publish apprenticeship starts at region, local education Business, Innovation and Skills what steps to support authority and parliamentary constituency levels of the natural refrigerant sector in the UK the geography, therefore data for South Yorkshire is not Government (a) has taken in the last three years and presented. (b) is planning to take. [158905] Apprenticeship Programme Starts in the ’Fashion and Textiles’ Framework by Geography, 2009/10 to 2011/12 Michael Fallon: The chemicals industry, including Geography 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 natural refrigerants producers, is extremely important to the UK economy and its transition to a low carbon Barnsley Central *** Parliamentary economy. Constituency Government is supporting this sector in a number of Yorkshire and the 10 20 40 ways: Humber England total 20 90 190 in April 2011 we extended the Capital Allowances Short Life Asset Regime for plant and machinery from four years to eight Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. ″*″ indicates a base value of less than years; 5. for the period April 2012 to 31 March 2017 we have introduced 2. Geographic breakdowns are based upon the home postcode of the learner. 100% Enhanced Capital Allowances for certain plant and machinery 3. Figures are based on the geographic boundaries as of May 2010. Source: expenditure; and Individualised Learner Record in January 2013 we increased the Annual Investment Allowance from £25,000 to £250,000 for two years. Trade Promotion To drive technological innovation and future economic growth we have established a network of seven High Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Value Catapult centres, as well as the first High Value Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking Manufacturing Catapult, with a £140 million commitment to encourage nations outside the EU to purchase over a six-year period through to 2017. UK-manufactured goods. [158745] We have also invested in a £61.5 million portfolio of Michael Fallon: UK Trade & Investment’s (UKTI) Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council corporate strategy, Britain Open for Business, sets out (EPSRC) Centres. Working with Catapults and in how we will encourage nations outside the EU to purchase conjunction with industry, EPSRCs will enable business UK goods by offering British companies expert advice to access advanced technologies. To reinforce this, four and practical support through a range of programmes EPSRC £1 million, commercially-focused, manufacturing that help them succeed internationally. This includes fellowships have been established; a third call of which focusing our customers’ attention on 20 high growth has also been issued. and emerging markets of particular potential, and prioritising our efforts on sectors offering greatest Teachers: Training opportunity for the UK. In support of these efforts, the autumn statement in Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for December 2012 announced a £70 million increase in Business, Innovation and Skills what consideration he UKTI’s annual budget to help deliver services to more has given to extending the chemistry initial teacher exporters and help refocus UKTI activities on the highest training scholarship scheme to primary school initial value opportunities and emerging markets. teacher training. [158555] The Government are also among the main advocates for the EU’s work to liberalise trade, be that through Mr Laws: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the the EU’s ambitious programme of bilateral trade Department for Education. negotiations or through work at the World Trade 257W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 258W

Organisation, with a view to overcoming tariff and of the consultation responses, evidence and other relevant non-tariff barriers that UK companies face when trying information. A report of the consultation will be published to export manufactured goods. The UK has pushed in due course. hard for the launch of trade negotiations with our major non-EU trading partners such as the USA and Obesity Japan and for negotiations with high-growth emerging markets such as those in the ASEAN bloc. My right 22. Caroline Nokes: To ask the Secretary of State for hon. Friend the Prime Minister is prioritising trade Health what steps he is taking to ensure co-ordinated liberalisation in his role as current chair of the G8. work to tackle obesity levels in the UK. [158888] In addition, the Government’s GREAT campaign showcases the very best of what Britain has to offer. Anna Soubry: ‘ACall to Action on Obesity in England’, The Government is focused on driving the campaign a copy of which has already been placed in the Library, forward in key markets (China, India, US and Brazil), sets out our strategy and the role of key partners in the and targeting a number of new emerging markets outside new public health system. We are working closely with the EU where GREAT can help the UK gain a competitive other partners, including business. We have set out two advantage for the future. new national ambitions for achieving a downward trend in the level of excess weight by 2020. Ambulance Services: East of England HEALTH Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for NHS Services: England and Wales Health what steps his Department is taking to require the East of England Ambulance Service to improve 17. Jesse Norman: To ask the Secretary of State for service levels. [159024] Health what steps he is taking to ensure that residents in England registered with GP practices in Wales have Anna Soubry: On 1 April 2013, the NHS Trust access to NHS services in England. [158882] Development Authority (NHS TDA) took responsibility for the performance management of national health Anna Soubry: I recently met with my hon. Friend the service trusts, the assurance of quality, governance and Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), and the risk in NHS trusts and the delivery and management of Secretary of State for Wales, my right hon. Friend the the foundation trust pipeline. The NHS TDA works Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones), on the issue of with all NHS trusts, including the East of England English patients registered with Welsh GP practices Ambulance Service NHS Trust, to help them to deliver accessing English NHS services. I have asked NHS sustainable, high quality services to the patients they England to look into this issue and to work with the serve. Welsh Assembly Government to reach a satisfactory As a result of concerns about service delivery, the solution for English patients. NHS TDA commissioned a review by Dr Anthony Accident and Emergency Departments Marsh to look into the governance arrangements at the trust. This review has been completed and the report 19. Mr Bradshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for will be published shortly. Health what recent assessment he has made of the An interim trust Chair, Dr Geoff Harris, has been performance of hospital accident and emergency appointed and will work closely with the trust chief departments. [158884] executive and the executive team to support the delivery of the trust’s turnaround plan and performance Anna Soubry: Performance in hospital accident and improvements. emergency departments continues to improve. Cancer Latest figures for the week ending 2 June 2013 show 96.8% of patients were seen within four hours. This is the sixth consecutive week the standard has been achieved. Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what measures his Department and NHS This is the highest performing week since September England will use to improve cancer patient experience 2012. across all of the domains of the NHS Outcomes Tobacco Packaging Framework; [159211] (2) what plans he has to ensure that providers of 20. Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for NHS funded cancer services and commissioners of Health what his policy is on the introduction of those services are held to account for improving cancer standardised tobacco packaging; and if he will make a patient experience. [159212] statement. [158885] Anna Soubry: The Mandate to NHS England requires 21. Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for it to deliver continued improvements in relation to Health what his policy is on the introduction of patients’ experience of care, including cancer care. This standardised tobacco packaging; and if he will make a improvement area corresponds to Domain 4 of the statement. [158887] NHS Outcomes Framework (NHS OF) ‘Ensuring that people have a positive experience of care’, and NHS Anna Soubry: The Government have not yet made a England will need to demonstrate progress in improving decision on this policy. This is an important decision patients’ experience against the specific outcome indicators and one that will only be taken after full consideration in the domain. Although there are no disease specific 259W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 260W indicators in this domain, those that are included cover Capita a range of national health service care settings which will be relevant to the experiences of cancer patients across all the domains of the NHS OF. Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for ‘Ensuring that people have a positive experience of Health how much his Department currently spends on care’ is also Domain 4 of the Clinical Commissioning contracts with Capita; and how much was spent in each Group Outcomes Indicator Set (CCG OIS). The CCG year since 2008. [158467] OIS indicators in this domain, many of which are shared with the NHS OF, will both hold CCGs to account for—and provide information for the public Dr Poulter: Information on the Department’s spend on—improvements in patient experience achieved through with Capita for all financial years from 2008-09 to commissioning services from providers. 2012-13 is shown in the following table.

£ Spend (Excluding VAT) 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 Grand total

Capita Business Services Ltd 4,468,977 30,012,514 27,752,082 4,948,629 965,277 68,147,480 Capita Business Travel Ltd — 13,806 93 — — 13,899 Capita Health Solutions Colchester 361 2,042 2,383 1,422 994 7,201 Capita Registrars Ltd 20,000 — — — — 20,000 Capita Resourcing Ltd 217,138 888,221 852,588 1,544,050 10,352,401 13,854,399 Capita Secure Information Systems Ltd — — — 2,500 — 2,500 Capua SHG Resourcing 688,674 478,378 836,875 460,371 13,320 2,477,618 Capita Symonds Ltd 73,082 394,271 202,463 184,172 152,206 1,006,194 Grand Total 5,468,232 31,789,233 29,646,484 7,141,144 11,484,198 85,529,291

In July 2008, the Department implemented a new Dr Poulter: The Record 2 indicator was included in business management system (BMS) which collects the Quality and Outcomes Framework (QOF) in 2004-05 enhanced detail on the categorisation, purpose and and 2005-06. The Health and Social Care Information value of orders. This has now given the Department the Centre has advised that data available cover general scope to be more specific about the nature of each practices in England, although Wales, Scotland and categorisation. However, information on the period of Northern Ireland also have a QOF. engagement prior to this is not held on BMS. Amount paid Emergency Services to GP Number of practice per participating Record 2 achievement Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for practices in QOF points point gained Total cost Health what recent discussions his Department has had QOF achieved (£) (£) with the Department for Communities and Local 2004-05 8,576 8,327 75 624,525 Government on steps to enable local fire and rescue 2005-06 8,409 8,300 124.60 1,034,180 services to take over responsibilities for emergency Source: ambulance response red 1 and red 2. [159023] Health and Social Care Information Centre, Statement of Financial Entitlements 2005 and 2006 Anna Soubry: The Department has been in discussions The Records 2 indicator was worth 1 point. In 2004-05 with the Department for Communities and Local practices were paid £75 per point achieved, and this was Government and the Home Office about promoting increased to £124.60 in 2005-06. Over the two years the greater collaboration between emergency services, where indicator was in use, a total of £1,658,705 was paid for appropriate. the achievement of the Records 2 indicator. Closer co-operation between the emergency services Participation by practices in QOF is voluntary; however is clearly desirable and should be encouraged and participation rates are high. incentivised, within the bounds of what is reasonably practicable and affordable. However, any more wide-ranging Health Education: Young People measures designed to bring the ambulance services and other emergency services together, operationally and/or Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for legally, would have to have a clear evidence base in Health what incentives he has given to health and terms of clear benefits, not only in monetary terms, but well-being boards to encourage them to invest in drug also in terms of clinical outcomes for patients. and alcohol prevention work aimed at young people. [158528] General Practitioners Norman Lamb: Local authority commissioners are Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for working through health and well-being boards to develop Health what amount was paid to GPs for fulfilling the a comprehensive analysis of health and social care Record 2 indicator of the Quality Outcomes needs in each local area in joint strategic needs assessments, Framework on legibility of records under the terms of and to translate these into action through joint health the 2004 GP contract in each year in which that and well-being strategies and their own commissioning indicator was in force. [159276] plans, including for public health. This will provide an 261W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 262W opportunity for needs around drug prevention to be Hospices identified and addressed as appropriate through action by the local authority and other partners. Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for One of the most effective approaches for preventing Health with reference to his Department’s young people from using drugs is to improve their announcement of 10 April 2013, when the hospices general life skills and resilience. The Department’s Youth allocated funding under the capital grants programme Social Marketing Strategy will set out how we intend to will formally receive funds. [158760] help young people build these skills and be able to make sensible choices on a wide range of risky behaviours, Norman Lamb: In the last week NHS England, including drug use. The Public Health Grant allocated with the assistance of Help the Hospices, have been to local authorities during 2013-14 includes funding for able to confirm all 179 grants to all organisations who the Healthy Child Programme for five to 19-year-olds. were previously notified of their award in March. Funds The Public Health Outcomes Framework (2012) is are being made available as required in line with the designed to help us keep track of how well we are doing conditions of the grant and the needs of each schemes in improving and protecting the nation’s health based and each recipient is now aware of how to access these on a number of indicators. A copy of the framework funds. has already been placed in the Library. Work is now The investment of £60 million in the hospice movement taking place to develop a Health Premium Incentive is a sign of our commitment to supporting hospices Scheme, based on these indicators, which will reward with their crucial work and will benefit patients throughout local authorities for progress in improving the health of the country. their local populations and reducing health inequalities. Details on the high-level design of the incentive scheme Legal Costs were included in ‘Healthy Lives, Healthy People: Update on Public Health Funding’ (2012). A copy has already been placed in the Library. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the 20 highest amounts paid for external legal Health Services advice by his Department were in (a) 2010, (b) 2011 and (c) 2012; to whom such payments were paid; and Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for for what reasons the legal advice was sought. [158620] Health what guidance his Department has given to clinical commissioning groups and health and well- Dr Poulter: Expenditure on legal advice for the core being boards on coordinating health commissioning Department taken from the central procurement system for people with (a) alcohol addiction, (b) drugs for the three financial years 2010-11, 2011-12 and 2012-13, addiction and (c) dual-diagnosis mental health and along with to whom expenditure was made and the addiction problems. [158529] reasons for the legal advice is set out in the following tables. Norman Lamb: For the treatment system to be effective it needs to be locally led and locally owned, with local External legal advice expenditure in 2010-11 (excluding VAT) authorities and clinical commissioning groups, working £ with health and wellbeing boards, to identify the health The Macfarlane Trust 78,185.33 and social care needs of local areas and developing a Legal advice provided by Wilsons Solicitors in respect of 78,185.33 strategy for addressing these needs. The role for central the implementation of the non-discretionary payments Government is carrying out research to develop and for 2009-10 arising from the Archer Inquiry Report publish an evidence base as to ‘what works’ and in promoting the sharing of best practice. DLA Piper UK LLP 18,570.75 In March 2013, the Department published statutory Legal advice to inform options appraisal, for SCHIN 14,100.00 guidance to support health and wellbeing boards undertake contract Joint Strategic Needs Assessments and Joint Health Legal advice provided to the IMS3 procurement project 3,000.00 and Wellbeing Strategies. This focuses on the methodology To provide legal advice to the Department regarding the 1,470.75 for producing comprehensive and high quality assessments contract expiry of the NHS Appraisal Toolkit between and strategies, and emphasises the importance of these the Department and SCHIN being locally-owned processes for developing evidence based priorities for commissioning. This is in addition MFET Ltd 15,439.16 to previous guidance issued by the National Treatment Legal advice provided by Wilsons Solicitors in respect of 15,439.16 Agency for Substance Misuse and by the National the implementation of the non-discretionary payments Institute for Health and Care Excellence which dealt for 2009-10 arising from the Archer Inquiry Report with specific subjects, such as maternity services for women with alcohol and/or drug addiction. The Eileen Trust 7,404.85 Public Health England provides local authority Legal advice provided by Wilsons Solicitors in respect of 7,404.85 the implementation of the non-discretionary payments commissioners and health and wellbeing boards with for 2009-10 arising from the Archer Inquiry Report an annual Joint Strategic Needs Assessment support pack to help them identify local priorities on alcohol and drug .prevention, treatment and recovery. The pack Skipton Fund Ltd 2,462.16 includes bespoke prevalence figures and National Drug Legal advice provided by Wilsons Solicitors in respect of 2,462.16 the implementation of the non-discretionary payments Treatment Monitoring System data as well as key principles for 2009-10 arising from the Archer Inquiry Report that they might consider when developing plans for an Grand total 122,062.25 integrated recovery systems. 263W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 264W

Expenditure on external legal advice in 2011-12 (excluding VAT) Dr Poulter: The Department’s spend on legal advice £ between 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 and separately DLA Piper UK LLP 87,220.00 since 4 September 2012 are contained in the following Provision of legal advice to support the procurement of 87,000.00 table. Managed Customer Contact Services for PIPP To provide legal advice to the Department regarding the 220.00 £ contract expiry of the NHS Appraisal Toolkit between the Department and SCHIN Department of Health external legal advice spend between 358,511.49 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 Department of Health external legal advice spend since 8,420.00 Mills And Reeve LLP 77,833.25 4 September 2012 Full Business Case for legal advice for CMU 77,833.25 These figures relate to the obtaining of legal advice Hempsons Solicitors 39,599.07 only and therefore exclude fees paid for external legal Legal advice in relation to the Mid Staffordshire Inquiry 39,599.07 representation in litigation. The figures above exclude advice by colleagues from the Department for Work

Wilsons Solicitors LLP 19,682.00 and Pensions. Wilsons Solicitors charges for their Legal advice for the setting 19,682.00 up of the Caxton Foundation over the periods: 25 November Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 2010 to 2 March 2011 and 3 March to 28 March 2011 what the highest day rate paid for external legal advice by his Department since 7 May 2010 was. [158677] Blake Lapthorn 3,895.60 Provision of legal advice and services 3,895.60 Dr Poulter: The Department does not have central records of individual day rates for external legal advice. Capsticks Solicitors LLP 2,350.00 Urgent legal advice to the MMC team 1,410.00 Multiple Sclerosis Legal advice supplied to aid the development of an retention 940.00 initiative for Strategic Health Authorities and Primary Care Trusts during the transition process Mr George Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what assessment he has made of the

Shoosmiths 577.00 effectiveness of the Risk-Sharing Scheme (RSS) that Legal Professional Advice for Carers Direct Trade Mark 577.00 makes disease-modifying treatments available to those Grand total 231,156.92 with multiple sclerosis; what steps he is taking to ensure there is a review of the RSS pending publication of Expenditure on external legal advice in 2012-13 (excluding VAT) 10-year data; and what steps he is taking to ensure that £ the provision of treatment of multiple sclerosis meet its associated care, support costs and ensures that new Hempsons Solicitors 70,915.48 treatments for multiple sclerosis are made available to Legal advice relating to Mid-Staffs Public Inquiry 70,915.48 patients. [158689]

Norton Rose LLP 12,574.88 Norman Lamb: The Multiple Sclerosis Risk Sharing Legal advice in relation to judicial review proceedings in which 12,574.88 DH is an interested party Scheme monitors the actual benefits achieved by the four Risk Sharing Scheme medicines over a 10-year period. Benefits are compared every two years and the Mills And Reeve LLP 1,474.75 data for years four and six are currently being analysed Full Business Case for Legal Advice for CMU 1,474.75 prior to publication. The 10-year data collection is due to be complete in 2015. Blake Lapthorn 1,190.00. Under the NHS Commissioning Board and Clinical RDG271—St. James’ Ct, Balham—provision of legal advice and 1,190.00 services Commissioning Group (Responsibilities and Standing rules) Regulations 2012, national health service commissioners are also required to fund the four multiple Capsticks Solicitors LLP 420.00 sclerosis treatments covered by the Multiple Sclerosis Provision of legal advice 420.00 Risk Sharing Scheme for patients meeting the published Grand total 86,575.11 clinical criteria. NHS commissioners are also legally required to fund Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Health treatments recommended in National Institute for Health how much his Department spent on external legal and Care Excellence technology appraisal guidance, advice from Queen’s Counsel (a) between 7 May 2010 including recommended treatments for multiple sclerosis. and 4 September 2012 and (b) since 4 September 2012. [158642] We understand that NHS England is working closely with stakeholders including patient groups and the Dr Poulter: The Department does not have available pharmaceutical industry, through its specialised clinical expenditure figures relating to external legal advice reference group, to ensure that new treatments are obtained from Queen’s Counsels between 7 May 2010 assessed and where clinically appropriate adopted by and 4 September 2012 and since 4 September 2012. the NHS in a timely manner, ensuring equitable access Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Health for multiple sclerosis sufferers in England. how much his Department spent on external legal Associated care and support costs for multiple sclerosis advice (a) between 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 patients are the responsibility of clinical commissioning and (b) since 4 September 2012. [158660] groups. 265W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 266W

Muscular Dystrophy: West Midlands general practitioners and practice staff working in general practices, general dental practitioners, or social enterprises Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for and local authorities that employ staff with access to Health what plans he has to address the lack of a the NHSPS. specialist neuromuscular care adviser and a specialist neuromuscular consultant in the West Midlands since Prescriptions: Fees and Charges the agreement of funding for those posts in March 2010. [158606] Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) how many people claimed free prescriptions in each Norman Lamb: On 1 April 2013 NHS England became of the last five years; and what the average per person responsible for commissioning specialised services, cost was in each such year; [159268] improving standards and national consistency. This is (2) what amount his Department spent on free intended to guarantee equitable access to services across prescriptions in each of the last five years. [159285] the country. This includes diagnostic services for adults and children with rare neuromuscular disorders. Norman Lamb: Information is not collected centrally NHS England commissions some elements of on the number of people claiming free prescriptions. neurological services through specialist services Calculating the costs to the Department of free commissioning arrangements, which includes specialised prescriptions would depend on how individuals might neuromuscular services. respond if free prescriptions were no longer available, especially if individuals made greater use of the pre-payment NHS: Pensions certificates. Estimates for the cost to the Department of provision of free prescriptions for the latest available Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for years (2007 to 2011) are shown in the following table: Health how much his Department has spent on (a) clinical and (b) non-clinical pensions in the NHS since Estimated cost (£ million) 2005. [158534] Scenario 22 Scenario 11 estimated Dr Poulter: Most staff working in the national health estimated cost theoretical including greater maximum cost if service are entitled to contribute to the NHS Pension Number of free use of pre- no change in use Scheme (NHSPS). NHS employers are required to pay prescription payment of pre-payment employer contributions (currently 14% of pensionable items(millions) certificates certificates pay) for staff contributing to the scheme. 2007 705 2,545 4,797 It is not possible to provide segregated employer 2008 785 2,909 5,526 contribution data for the time period specified. However, 2009 833 3,114 5,975 estimates based on data extracted from the Electronic 2010 874 3,281 6,296 Staff Record (ESR) since April 2008 are shown in the 2011 910 3,469 6,688 following table. 1 Scenario 1 assumes that three quarters of the population aged 60 and over would use pre-payment certificates to pay for prescriptions should exemption be withdrawn. Billion 2 The estimated theoretical maximum revenue (Scenario 2) is based on the Financial year Clinical Non-clinical assumption that all those who receive free prescriptions would pay for prescription charges at the point of dispensing, paying the full price for each prescription 2008-09 3.0 0.8 item. 2009-10 3.2 0.9 Source: Numbers of prescription items are taken from prescriptions dispensed in the 2010-11 3.4 0.9 Community, Statistics for England published by the Health and Social Care 2011-12 3.4 0.9 Information Centre. Source: Electronic Staff Record (ESR) Data Warehouse. Social Services The ESR is the integrated payroll and human resources system for most NHS organisations, which has been in Mr Ward: To ask the Secretary of State for Health place since April 2008. Validated data on employer (1) what assessment his Department has undertaken of pension contributions split by clinical and non-clinical the effects on disabled and older people of increasing staff is not available. However, it can be estimated for the Fair Access to Care Services Criteria in an area; Hospital and Community Health Services Staff using [159206] information from ESR Data Warehouse. Estimates for (2) if he will take steps to ensure that services 2012-13 are not yet available. provided by the NHS in Bradford are not affected by For the purposes of these estimates, non-clinical staff any change in the Fair Access to Care Services Criteria are defined as managers, administrative and clerical made by Bradford Council; [159207] staff, and maintenance and works staff. Clinical staff (3) what research his Department has undertaken includes doctors, nurses, allied health professionals, scientific into the effect on the NHS of local authority decisions technical and therapy staff, ambulance staff and their to increase their Fair Access to Care Services Criteria. support staff. [159208] Information provided by the ESR Data Warehouse is a monthly snap shot of the live ESR system. Organisations Norman Lamb: In the last spending round the which do not use ESR include two trusts, Moorfields Government prioritised funding for social care, and the Eye Hospital NHS Foundation Trust and Chesterfield settlement allowed local authorities to maintain the Royal Hospital NHS Foundation Trust. In addition this current levels of eligibility for care and support. However, data does not include employer contributions from under the current legal framework, local authorities are 267W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 268W free to set their eligibility threshold for adult social care Reports based on this research are available on the services. Local authorities base their own threshold in Electoral Commission’s website: response to local needs and circumstances. http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voter-registration/ Bradford council are currently out to consultation on individual-electoral-registration/research-on-voter- changing their Fair Access to Care Services criteria registration levels. General Elections: Voting Behaviour The consultation about Fair Access to Care Services runs until 4 August 2013 and has been discussed at the Chris Ruane: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister how Bradford Central and Bradford District Clinical many and what proportion of (a) registered voters and Commissioning Group’s senior management team meeting. (b) people who were entitled to vote voted in each It will form part of their Clinical Board discussions in general election in the last 30 years. [159057] the next two months. They will be contributing to this consultation. Miss Chloe Smith: The number of registered There was widespread support during the consultation parliamentary electors who voted in UK general elections on the draft Care and Support Bill to introduce national in the last 30 years is set out in the following table: eligibility criteria (formerly known as Fair Access to General election turnouts since 1983 Care Services). People have told us that the process for Proportion determining who is eligible for care and support is Turnout (million) (percentage) confusing and unfair. There will be a single eligibility decision for all types of on-going care and support; 1983 30.67 72.7 This will create a clear and transparent process for all 1987 32.53 75.3 users and carers. 1992 33.61 77.7 1997 31.29 71.4 The Care Bill includes a provision to set the national minimum threshold in regulations. When setting the 2001 26.37 59.4 national minimum threshold we will have to take account 2005 27.15 61.4 of a number of factors. The threshold will be determined 2010 29.69 65.1 as part of the spending round, which will be announced The Office for National Statistics has advised that no on 26 June. data are collected on the number of people who are Local authorities will be free to set their eligibility eligible to vote but who choose not to register. threshold at a more generous level but will not be able to tighten them beyond the national minimum threshold. The national minimum threshold will be in place from TRANSPORT April 2015, subject to the passage of legislation. Accountancy The Department has not undertaken any research into the effect on the national health service of local Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for authority decisions to increase their Fair Access to Care Transport what the names, job titles, area of work, Services Criteria. term of appointment and civil service equivalent grade are of personnel currently seconded to his Department from the big four accountancy firms. [159050] DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Norman Baker: The Department for Transport does Electoral Register not have any personnel currently seconded to the Department from the big four accountancy firms. Chris Evans: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what Capita his most recent estimate is of the number of unregistered voters. [158538] Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how much his Department currently spends Miss Chloe Smith: The Government do not hold this on contracts with Capita; and how much was spent in information. However, the Cabinet Office has funded each year since 2008. [158473] research by the Electoral Commission into the completeness and accuracy of the electoral registers in Great Britain. Norman Baker: The level of expenditure by the The Commission has also undertaken research on Department for Transport on contracts with Capita continuous electoral registration in Northern Ireland. since 2008 is shown in the table below.

£ Agency 2008/09 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 2012/13 2013/14* Total

DfTc 3,292,972 3,797,465 1,546,758 1,019,243 1,792,431 336,656 11,785,525 DSA 11,913,055 7,779,721 9,612,056 10,410,338 9,480,105 846,036 50,041,311 DVLA 455,210 182,555 14,084 1,486,248 8,306,362 674,457 11,118,918 HA 4,736,596 6,600,821 6,857,369 2,392,999 2,397,981 747,456 23,733,221 MCA 2,781,519 3,426,064 1,608,832 3,184,729 3,710,924 57,152 14,769,220 VCA 90,688 59,862 87,437 97,307 81,967 0 417,260 VOSA 2,008,334 163,375 36,215 1,897 5,886 171 2,215,878 269W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 270W

£ Agency 2008/09 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 2012/13 2013/14* Total

TOTAL 25,278,375 22,009,864 19,762,751 18,592,760 25,775,655 2,661,928 114,081,333 * Spend as of 5 June 2013.

Driving: Licensing the MacPherson report ‘Review of Quality Assurance of Government models’ which contains recommendations Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for on independent audit. Transport what recent meetings (a) he and (b) HS2 Ltd aims to publish key documents which describe Ministers in his Department have had with the Post the assurance process applied to this analytical work Office to discuss the implementation of new digital later this year. technology to process driving licence applications in post offices. [158749] Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether he plans to review his Department’s Stephen Hammond: Details of ministerial meetings benefit to cost ratio for High Speed 2 to take into with external organisations are published every quarter account the assumptions on the relationship between and this information can be accessed on the Gov.uk passenger numbers and GDP growth that were website via the following link: published in August 2012. [158611] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ministerial- transparency-data#meetings Mr Simon Burns: The HS2 appraisal is consistent with the Department’s standard transport appraisal East Coast Railway Line guidance (WebTAG) used across all departmental transport schemes. WebTAG is kept under continuous review and Mr Darling: To ask the Secretary of State for is updated annually to ensure that the appraisal of the Transport when the franchise for the East Coast Main Department’s spending is based on the best available Line will be put out to tender; and when he expects the evidence and analysis. contract to be awarded. [159067] The Economic Case for HS2 will be updated to support the Phase 2 consultation and the passage of the Mr Simon Burns: When the Secretary of State for Hybrid Bill. This update will use the latest evidence Transport announced the new schedule for rail refranchising available and will be consistent with WebTAG guidance. on 26 March 2013 he also published the Prior Information Notice (PIN) detailing the key dates of the new East Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Coast Main Line programme: Transport whether he has undertaken an evaluation of the proposal to restore the Stonebridge Railway and Publish Contract Franchise Franchise OJEU Issue ITT award start link it with the High Speed 2 interchange at Stonebridge; and what assessment he has made of the East October 2013 February 2014 October 2014 February 2015 effect that this proposal would have on connectivity Coast between the High Speed 2 interchange and (a) Coventry, (b) Nuneaton, (c) Tamworth and (d) the High Speed 2 Railway Line wider region. [159277]

Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr McLoughlin: The proposal for the restoration of Transport if he will commission new survey data for the Stonebridge Railway and a link to HS2 would be a use in calculating the benefits of High Speed 2 to regional rail scheme rather than an integral part of business travellers. [158608] HS2. It is, therefore, for the relevant local transport authorities to consider and determine if they wish to Mr Simon Burns: The HS2 appraisal is consistent prioritise it. with the Department’s standard transport appraisal guidance (WebTAG) used across all departmental transport James Wharton: To ask the Secretary of State for schemes. WebTAG is kept under continuous review and Transport what steps he is taking to ensure that the is updated annually to ensure that the appraisal of the Hybrid Bill process for High Speed 2 is compliant with Department’s spending is based on the best available (a) the public participation requirements of the evidence and analysis. Aarhus Convention and (b) the Environmental Impact When necessary the Department will commission Assessment Directive. [R] [159346] new survey data to inform appraisal and where appropriate this will be applied to HS2. Mr McLoughlin: The Government intends to lay a motion in the House proposing that Standing Orders Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for are amended to address these requirements. In particular Transport when HS2 Ltd will (a) complete and (b) they would incorporate a period of consultation on the publish an independent audit of passenger demand Environmental Statement between introduction and second forecasts and analysis. [158610] reading for projects promoted via a hybrid Bill. This follows the precedent set by the Crossrail Act and will Mr Simon Burns: The analysis of HS2 conducted to ensure that the decisions made at Second and Third inform the next update to the Business Case will be Reading on HS2 are informed by the public’s views on conducted in line with the recommendations outlined in its environmental effects. 271W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 272W

It will be for the House to decide whether these Number of people Number of people changes should be made but the Government’s intention Total accidents killed seriously injured is that the motion should be laid later this month. 2007 100 4 20 Legal Costs 2008 85 8 24 2009 55 6 14 Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010 81 0 14 Transport (1) what the 20 highest amounts paid for 2011 64 2 10 external legal advice by his Department were in (a) 2010, (b) 2011 and (c) 2012; to whom such payments Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for were paid; and for what reasons the legal advice was Transport what recent representations he has received sought; [158626] on removing the MOT exemption for mobile cranes (2) how much his Department spent on external legal which use public roads. [159106] advice from Queen’s Counsel (a) between 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 and (b) since 4 September 2012; Stephen Hammond: In the last 12 months I have [158650] received representations from three MPs, an MSP, a (3) how much his Department spent on external legal private individual and two trade bodies. I have advised advice (a) between 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 them that I am waiting for the outcome of the negotiations and (b) since 4 September 2012. [158668] on European Roadworthiness Regulations currently being finalised before considering amending our domestic Norman Baker: The Department can only provide legislation. complete information regarding its spend on external Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for legal advice, including advice from Queen’s Counsel, Transport what assessment he has made of the for the periods in question at disproportionate cost. effectiveness of the Provision and Use of Work However, some information is available from its central Equipment Regulations 1998 in ensuring that vehicles finance systems and those of its executive agencies, exempted from MOT testing requirements meet road where that information has been held in an appropriate safety standards. [159176] format and where it may be possible to disaggregate legal advice costs from other costs. Where this information Stephen Hammond: There has been no recent assessment is readily available it will be summarised into a table to of the The Provision and Use of Work Equipment be deposited in the Libraries of the House. Regulations 1998. Road safety standards are covered by other legislation. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what the highest day rate paid for external Piers legal advice by his Department since 7 May 2010 was. Mr Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for [158685] Transport what funds his Department makes available to upgrade local authority managed seafront piers. Norman Baker: The Department for Transport does not procure or contract external legal services on a day [158452] rate basis. Charges may be set on a by case basis or are Stephen Hammond: The Department for Transport chargeable per minute. However, central records show does not provide grants to local authorities for the that the highest equivalent day rate paid by this Department maintenance of piers. Local authority managed piers for external legal advice since May 2010, based on an may be eligible for support under the Coastal Communities eight hour day was 5,400. Fund, jointly managed by the Department for Communities and Local Government and the Big Lottery Fund, Light Dues where they meet the key criteria on job creation and growth. Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether he plans to review the level of light Railways: Medway dues in the remainder of this parliament. [158524] Rehman Chishti: To ask the Secretary of State for Stephen Hammond: Light dues levels are reviewed Transport what estimate he has made of the number of annually, in conjunction with the Lights Advisory passengers on trains to London from (a) Gillingham Committee, who represent the views of the shipping station and (b) Rainham station in each of the last five industry. years. [158773]

Motor Vehicles: Testing Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not hold this information. Southeastern is responsible for running these services and may be able to provide further Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for information. Transport how many road (a) accidents, (b) fatalities and (c) serious injuries have involved vehicles exempt Railways: Windermere from MOT requirements in each of the last five years for which figures are available. [159105] David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what plans he has to electrify the Stephen Hammond: The five years of figures available Windermere branch line; and if he will make a are as follows: statement. [158771] 273W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 274W

Mr Simon Burns: Network Rail and Train Operators Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for are currently developing a business case for proposed Transport what recent assessment he has made of staff electrification between Windermere and Oxhenholme. I morale at Aberdeen coastguard co-ordination centre. expect the study to conclude later in the year. [159091] Rescue Services: Aberdeen Stephen Hammond: During any major change initiative like the Future Coastguard Programme it is recognised Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for that all affected staff will experience differing individual Transport (1) what the reasons are for the time taken to emotions which will inevitably have an impact on collective upgrade Aberdeen’s coastguard co-ordination centre; morale. It is the responsibility of both senior and local [159086] managers to support staff through the period of change (2) when he expects Aberdeen’s coastguard and this is being undertaken at all maritime rescue co-ordination centre to be upgraded. [159087] co-ordination centres including Aberdeen. For example the Maritime and Coastguard Agency has signed a Stephen Hammond: As was outlined in my predecessor’s pre-redundancy agreement with the trade unions which announcement to the House on 22 November 2011, outlines the steps that will be taken to avoid compulsory Official Report, column 161, the transition to the new redundancies. structure will happen progressively up to March 2015. Roads: Yorkshire and the Humber The current plan is that, following the National Maritime Operations Centre (NMOC) becoming operational, the Andrew Percy: To ask the Secretary of State for Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre (MRCC) in Transport (1) how many road closures there have been Aberdeen will migrate into the new national network in (a) Brigg and Goole constituency and (b) Yorkshire and become a Coastguard Operations Centre (CGOC) and the Humber in each of the last five years; [159269] during financial year 2014/15. (2) for what period of time roads in (a) Brigg and The implementation of the programme is driven by Goole constituency and (b) Yorkshire and the Humber operational requirements and therefore migration and have been closed in each of the last five years. [159271] closure dates are subject to ongoing review. Norman Baker: This information is not held centrally Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for as individual traffic authorities are responsible for road Transport if he will publish all (a) reports and (b) closures within their areas. correspondence received by (i) his Department and (ii) the Marine and Coastguard Agency regarding safety issues relating to long-term staff shortages at Aberdeen FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE coastguard co-ordination station. [159088] British Indian Ocean Territory Stephen Hammond: Neither the Department for Transport nor the Maritime and Coastguard Agency Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for (MCA) have received reports or correspondence relating Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent to safety issues or long term staff shortages at the discussions he has had with his (a) US and (b) Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre (MRCC) in Mauritian counterpart on the future of the British Aberdeen which have caused the MCA any concern. Indian Ocean Territory (Chagos Islands). [158341] The Agency actively keeps its operational capability at all Coastguard Centres under careful review and takes Mark Simmonds: I have had no recent discussions on action to manage safety risks through, for example, the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) with my US collaborative working and technical pairing across centres. counterparts. Foreign and Commonwealth Office and State Department officials have regular discussions about Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for all bilateral matters, including BIOT. The most recent Transport (1) for what reasons Aberdeen’s coastguard US-UK BIOT Pol-Mil annual talks were held in London co-ordination centre was not fully staffed for the year in October 2012. BIOT is often raised in our bilateral ended March 2013; [159089] discussions with Mauritius. (2) what measures are in place to ensure that Henderson Island Aberdeen’s coastguard maintains a full complement of staff at all times. [159090] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Stephen Hammond: The Maritime Rescue Coordination assessment he has made of the rat infestation on Centre (MRCC) in Aberdeen was not fully staffed for Henderson Island. [158346] the year ended March 2013 due to retirements, resignations and ill health. The Maritime and Coastguard Agency Mark Simmonds: I refer the hon. Member to my (MCA) is currently engaged in recruitment activity to answer of 22 April 2013. Official Report, column 635W. fill the existing vacancies. The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (RSPB) Where MRCCs are experiencing reduced staffing levels has been closely monitoring the situation on Henderson the MCA is utilising existing “pairing” arrangements Island following the unsuccessful 2011 eradication attempt. and other support measures as necessary to maintain A further research trip, funded by the Darwin Initiative, operational integrity. Regarding Aberdeen specifically, is planned for July and August. The near-removal of during periods of reduced manning the pairing rats from the island has allowed many of Henderson’s arrangements enable support to be through a fixed link birds to significantly increase their populations and the from the MRCC in Shetland and via dial up links from RSPB are in discussion with the Territory on next steps the MRCCs in Belfast, Stornoway, Humber or Liverpool. for Pitcairn and Henderson. The UK Government will 275W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 276W continue working with the Territory and partner on the MVO website. The volcano remains active but organisations to protect the environment and biodiversity has been in a state of pause since the last major eruption of these internationally important islands. in February 2010. In November 2011 the hazard level was reduced, allowing daytime access to certain parts of India the former exclusion zone. Hazard levels and access remain under constant review. All of these measures Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State have substantially reduced the risk to Montserrat’s for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent population. steps he has taken to raise the case of Devinderpal Singh Bhullar with his counterparts in the Indian Palestinians Government and to press for his death sentence to be commuted to a life sentence. [158829] Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what Mr Swire: I refer the hon. Member to my answer of representations he has received regarding access for 13 May 2013, Official Report, column 34W. tourists to the west bank. [158831]

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Alistair Burt: We have not received any representations for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what regarding access for tourists to the west bank. However discussions he has had with his counterparts in the the Government continues to assess that Israeli restrictions Indian Government regarding concerns raised by on movement and access in the west bank and Gaza are Amnesty International, Reprieve UK, Human Rights the single biggest obstacle to trade and economic Watch and other organisations regarding the treatment development. of Devinderpal Singh Bhullar. [158830] We continue to lobby the Israeli Government to ease restrictions on movement and access. Mr Swire: I refer the hon. Member to my answer of 13 May 2013, Official Report, column 34W. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State The UK will continue to monitor this case closely, as for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will raise we will in all cases where the death penalty has been with his counterpart in the Israeli government the given as a sentence. I note that there are concerns about importance of allowing tourism to Palestinian- the treatment of Mr Bhullar during his imprisonment. controlled areas as a valuable source for economic We will continue to call on the Indian Government to growth in the area. [158832] expedite the ratification of the United Nations convention against torture and its optional protocol, and adopt Alistair Burt: We remain deeply concerned about robust domestic legislation to that, effect. The British restrictions on freedom of movement between the west Government made a specific recommendation on that bank and East Jerusalem, and elsewhere in the Occupied issue during India’s universal periodic review in May Palestinian Territories. Through our embassy in Tel last year. Aviv, we have lobbied the appropriate authorities on the issue of movement and access. We continue to work Kenya closely with the Quartet and EU partners, and to call on Israel to ease restrictions on access. However, the Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Government continues to assess that Israeli restrictions Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what proportion on movement and access in Palestinian-controlled areas of the total £19.9 million Mau Mau settlement will go are the single biggest obstacle to trade and economic to law firms representing Kenyans. [159197] development. Mark Simmonds: £6 million of the total settlement Rockall was paid to Leigh Day in respect of their legal costs. Montserrat Andrew Percy: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is on the sovereignty of Rockall Island. [159272] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Mr Lidington: Sovereignty over Rockall lies with the assessment he has made of the potential threat from United Kingdom. It was annexed in 1955 and no other the Soufriere Hills Volcano in Montserrat. [158345] state disputes our sovereignty. Mark Simmonds: The Soufriere Hills volcano remains South Sudan one of the most closely monitored volcanoes in the world. The Montserrat Volcano Observatory (MVO) Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign monitors it round the clock and its scientists produce and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has weekly activity reports. These are available on the MVO received of the presence of anti-personnel mines in website: Jonglei State, South Sudan, in breach of the Mine Ban www.mvo.ms Treaty; and what representations he has made to the In addition, further analysis and advice is provided by government of South Sudan on that matter. [158753] the Montserrat Scientific Advisory Committee (SAC) which reviews scientific data with the MVO to aid Mark Simmonds: We have received unconfirmed reports future forecasting on possible activity. The SAC reports of the use of anti-personnel mines in Jonglei State, and annually to the Governor and its reports are also available are liaising with the UN and others. Access in parts of 277W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 278W

Jonglei State remains difficult and hazardous but the Business: Forced Labour UN Mission in South Sudan continues to monitor activity wherever possible. The British Government stresses the importance for all countries party to the Mine Ban Jim Sheridan: To ask the Secretary of State for Treaty to fulfil their obligations under the treaty, and if International Development what steps her Department evidence confirming the use of mines is received, we will is taking to eradicate slavery in business supply chains. make strong representations to the Government of South [158729] Sudan. Sudan Justine Greening: DFID is taking steps to help businesses tackle slavery in supply chains that involve developing Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign countries, through: and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has (a) initiatives focused on the trafficking of women and girls had with his Sudanese counterpart during his recent and child labour, including a regional programme in South Asia; visit to London; and what representations he has made (b) by supporting tripartite and global mechanisms, such as to the Sudanese government on the humanitarian the Ethical Trading Initiative, UK National Contact Point for the situation in Darfur, South Kordofan and Blue Nile. OECD Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises, and UN Global [158116] Compact; and (c) by helping to address the underlying factors that put people Mark Simmonds: The Secretary of State for Foreign at risk of becoming victims of forced labour. and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), and I met The Government will shortly be launching an action the Sudanese Minister for Foreign Affairs in London plan which will help UK companies understand and on 7 May. At this meeting, the Secretary of State manage human rights risks such as trafficking and welcomed the recent progress in relations with South forced labour. Sudan, and the start of talks between Sudan People’s Liberation Movement-North and the Government of Sudan but also pressed for more progress in those talks, Capita and the urgent need for humanitarian access to those in need in all conflict areas. We raise these points with the Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Government of Sudan at every available opportunity, International Development how much her Department including through officials at our embassy in Khartoum. currently spends on contracts with Capita; and how Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for much was spent in each year since 2008. [158469] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has had with Baroness Amos following her visit to Justine Greening: The following table gives details of Sudan. [158783] DFID spend on contracts with Capita since 2008. Current year spend is £2,632. Mark Simmonds: During her visit, Baroness Amos met officials from the Department for International Spend (£) Development to present her initial findings from the visit. It is welcome that she was able to visit refugee 2008 999 camps in Darfur, and that she pressed the Government 2009 16,346 of Sudan to allow unhindered access for humanitarian 2010 1,522,688 agencies across Sudan but in particular in conflict affected 2011 3,418 areas including Southern Kordofan, Blue Nile and Darfur. 2012 63,328 Officials from the embassy in Khartoum also met the Head of the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in Khartoum afterwards for a de-briefing on the Legal Costs visit. Baroness Amos plans to brief the UN Security Council on her visit on 20 June. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development (1) what the 20 highest INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT amounts paid for external legal advice by her Department were in (a) 2010, (b) 2011 and (c) 2012; Bangladesh to whom such sums were paid; and for what reasons the legal advice was sought; [158632] Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what recent discussions she (2) how much her Department spent on external has had with the Health and Safety Executive about legal advice from Queen’s Counsel (a) between 7 May improving health and safety for workers in Bangladesh. 2010 and 4 September 2012 and (b) since 4 September [159118] 2012; [158645] (3) how much her Department spent on external Mr Duncan: DFID has been exploring, through the legal advice (a) between 7 May 2010 and 4 September Investment Facility for Utilising UK Specialist Expertise 2012 and (b) since 4 September 2012. [158663] (IFUSE), suitable sources of expertise to provide help in improving health and safety in Bangladesh. The Health and Safety Executive is one of the organisations Mr Duncan: For the period questioned the central included in this discussion. finance records of the DFID show the following: 279W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 280W

UNHCR’s focus on the provision of life-saving assistance £ and protection at Yida, but welcome the fact that the External legal advice1 full package of refugee services will be available at Between 7 May 2010 and 4 Since 4 September 2012 to 31 September 2012 May 2013 Adjoung Thok.

Legal fees 1,808,704.16 278,089.49 Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for paid International Development what reports she has 1 Note on figures produced. These figures relate to total legal costs paid to received on the supply of food in Yida refugee camp in external parties, this includes both costs paid to obtain legal advice and costs paid to obtain legal representation services. It is not possible to split this down South Sudan. [158785] to only costs paid for obtaining legal advice without incurring disproportionate cost. In determining external legal advice we have excluded Lynne Featherstone: We are working closely with the Treasury’s Solicitors own charges to Departments as these would fall within UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) in the the Government Legal Service. Our response therefore reflects costs paid to private sector legal representatives. Yida refugee camp, who lead on the delivery of humanitarian aid. We judge that the UNHCR operation DFID’s central finance records identify total legal is capable of dealing with the high caseload of over costs, including amounts paid to external parties to 71,000 refugees, and ensuring proper supply of food, obtain legal advice and representation services. It is not and understand the Word Food Programme has put in possible to split this down into the categories requested, place effective preparations for food supplies in Yida without examining individual files which would incur refugee camp. disproportionate cost. Syria Palestinians Jim Sheridan: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what assessment she has International Development (1) what recent assessment made of the adequacy of funding allocated to young her Department has made of the risks and benefits of disabled refugees from Syria in (a) Lebanon, (b) funding projects in Area C of the Occupied Palestinian Jordan, (c) Iraq and (d) Turkey. [158717] Territory; [158758] Justine Greening: We recognise that the impact of the (2) what recent discussions her Department has had conflict is felt most by those who are most vulnerable, on funding of development infrastructure in those including young and disabled refugees. The UN-led parts of Area C of the Occupied Palestinian Territory Regional Response Plan, announced on 7 June, will covered by Palestinian master plans with (a) other include an assessment of regional needs. We are working Government Departments, (b) international with humanitarian agencies to respond to the most development ministers of other EU member states and affected Syrian refugees in neighbouring countries. (c) the European Commission. [158759] Jim Sheridan: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Duncan: DFID is in frequent dialogue with both International Development what assessment she has other Government Departments, other donors, and the made of the work conducted by the United Nations European Commission regarding funding of development Relief and Works Agency in supporting (a) infrastructure in those parts of Area C of the Occupied Palestinian refugees who have not been displaced as a Palestinian Territories covered by Palestinian master result of the conflict in Syria and (b) newly-displaced plans. The topic has also been discussed in international Palestinian refugees from Syria. [158718] fora such as the EU Foreign Affairs Council and the Ad Justine Greening: Overall United Nations Relief and Hoc Liaison Committee. Works Agency (UNRWA) continue to deliver high quality DFID is currently considering the costs and benefits basic services to a growing refugee population. of additional assistance for vulnerable communities in (a) A May 2013 annual review of our support to the UNRWA Area C. indicated that UNRWA is on track to deliver key results. (b) Funding for the Syria appeal remains critically low, but South Sudan UNRWA has provided cash assistance to more than 215,000 refugees in 2013, as well as supplying food and relief packages, and maintaining regular education, health and social services. Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for The UK is providing £5 million to UNRWA which will allow International Development what assessment she has them to support 350,000 newly displaced Palestinian refugees made of the current situation in the Yida and Ajuong from Syria. refugee camps in South Sudan. [158784]

Lynne Featherstone: UK officials visited both the JUSTICE Yida settlement and the new Adjoung Thok camp in April 2013 to see conditions of these camps first Criminal Defence Service hand. Conditions in Yida camp are difficult, but we Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice judge that the refugees living there are receiving adequate what steps he is taking to ensure the bi-lingual support. Ajoung Camp is better equipped to provide provision of criminal defence services in Wales. the longer-term support for refugees, and we support [158113] the decision of the Government of South Sudan and the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR)to Jeremy Wright: The Ministry of Justice aims to treat encourage relocation away from Yida and to open the the English and Welsh languages on a basis of equality new camp at Adjoung Thok, which UNHCR see as a so far as is possible and any criminal legal aid contract safer location given its increased distance, particularly holder would be required to meet the obligations of the by road, from the insecure border region. We support Welsh Language Act. 281W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 282W

Employment and Support Allowance: Appeals time slot, reducing the number of cases that can be heard per session. The oldest cases are routinely referred Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for to District Tribunal Judges to enable them to make any Justice what the average length of time was for the appropriate directions which will help progress these Tribunals Service to administer a First-tier Tribunal- cases to hearing. The impact these measures have on Social security and Child Support appeal in respect of waiting times continues to be monitored closely. employment and support allowance in Coventry in (a) The number of appeals received by the SSCS Tribunal each quarter in 2012 and (b) the latest period for which nationally has risen significantly, from 229,100 in 2007-08 figures are available. [158846] to 453,719 between January and December 2012 (the latest period for which information has been published). Mrs Grant: Appeals against decisions made by the In addition to local initiatives, HMCTS continues to Department for Work and Pensions on an individual’s respond strongly at a national level to continue to entitlement to social security and child support are increase the capacity of the SSCS Tribunal and reduce heard by the First-tier Tribunal—Social Security and waiting times. Measures in place include ongoing Child Support (SSCS), administered by HM Courts recruitment of additional judges and medically qualified and Tribunals Service (HMCTS). members and the review and continuous improvement of administrative processes both internally and between The following table shows the average time taken HMCTS and DWP. from receipt of an appeal to disposal by the tribunal in respect of employment and support allowance (ESA) in All of this is having a positive effect. The total the Coventry hearing venues for each quarter from number of disposals has increased significantly from January to December 2012 (the latest period for which 279,000 in 2009-10 to 380,000 in 2010-11, and 433,600 figures are available). appeals in 2011-12 and the average waiting time has fallen nationally from 22.9 weeks in 2011-12 to 17.4 weeks Appeal times (in weeks) from receipt to disposal in Coventry, 2012 in April to December 2012. January to April to July to October to March June September December Homicide: Sentencing

Employment and 46.8 37.8 34.3 39.7 support allowance David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Source: Justice if he will give consideration to implementing a The data are taken from management information murder offence of terrorism aggravated murder with The appeal waiting time in weeks in Coventry for all the punishment of a mandatory whole life sentence appeal types is 33.9 weeks. without parole. [158813] The increase in average waiting times for the period October to December 2012 reflects the fact that the Jeremy Wright: Schedule 21 to the Criminal Justice number of appeals received in Coventry rose significantly Act 2003 provides guidance to the courts on determining in April to June 2012, as set out in the following table: the minimum term for a life sentence for murder. The starting point for a murder committed for the purpose Appeal receipts in Coventry, 2012 of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause is January to April to July to October to March June September December a whole life tariff.

Employment and 386 794 641 440 Prisoner Escorts support allowance Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice From November 2012 some appeals which would how many court cases were delayed because defendants previously have been heard at Coventry have been heard were absent as a result of the failure of GEOAmey to at alternative venues in Leamington Spa and Nuneaton, transport prisoners to court in 2012. [158152] allowing additional sessions to be held. However, it has proved difficult to maintain a high level of additional Jeremy Wright: Providing the requested information sessions as fewer appellants than expected have been would involve analysis of data for both court adjournments willing to travel to these venues for their hearings. and prisoner transfer records. This could not be done Despite this appellants from Coventry are routinely without incurring disproportionate cost. offered the alternative of having their hearings at these venues where earlier hearing dates can be given. Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State From 10 June, there will be four hearing rooms in use for Justice (1) what value of fines have been paid under on a daily basis at Coventry magistrates court, increasing each privately-operated prisoner escort contract in capacity to allow an additional 20 judicial sessions a each of the last 12 months; and if he will make a week to be heard at this venue. This will reduce the statement; [158448] number of appeals waiting to be heard at Coventry and (2) what fines can be levied against each privately- will reduce the average waiting time for an appeal operated prisoner escort contract for (a) late delivery hearing. to court of offenders and (b) late delivery of offenders The effect of these latest measures on waiting times at prison establishments; and if he will make a will not be immediate, especially as the oldest cases, statement. [158449] which can take longer to hear, are being targeted first. Older cases are more likely to be complex cases which Jeremy Wright: The Ministry of Justice are unable to may have had more than one hearing, for example a disclose the value of Liquidated Damages paid by each first hearing may have been adjourned for further evidence contractor during the past 12 months. This information to be gathered. Complex cases also often need a longer is classed as commercially sensitive, and has not previously 283W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 284W been published. Contracted Delivery Indicators are part Probation of the Pricing Mechanisms which were redacted when Contracts were uploaded onto Contracts Finder. Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 1. The contractual remedy for late delivery to court of offenders with reference to the answer of 25 March 2013, Official is by Service Improvement Plans and Service Improvement Notices. Report The application of Liquidated Damages (fines) is not a contractual , columns 952-4W, on probation, what the title is option for this Contract Delivery Indicator. of each accredited programme; and who the programme providers are. [156878] 2. Liquidated Damages (fines) can be applied for the late delivery of prisoners to establishments. They are made on the following basis: £150 per hour pro-rata for each 15 minute period Jeremy Wright: The following table provides the titles prisoners are delivered later than 30 minutes prior to the latest of probation accredited programmes and the probation prison reception closing time. This is a cost per van. trust providers for each programme. £50 per night per prisoner for prisoners that are Interventions are commissioned on a local basis in locked out of prison and lodged overnight in police order to meet the needs of the offender population and cells. are therefore subject to change. Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State The information provided has been drawn from an for Justice on how many occasions each prison administrative data system, and although care is taken reception in the UK has had to remain open due to the when processing and analysing the returns, the detail late arrival of offenders from courts in each of the last collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent in any 12 months. [158454] large scale recording system.

Programme category and title Main provider (probation trust) Jeremy Wright: The National Offender Management Service (NOMS) does not record this information centrally. Alcohol—COVAID Accredited Greater Manchester Probation Trust To collate this information would require the examination Hampshire Probation Trust of daily logs from individual establishments and this Leicestershire and Rutland would incur disproportionate costs. Probation Trust Nottinghamshire Probation Trust West Yorkshire Probation Trust Prisoners’ Transfers

Alcohol—DID (Drink Impaired Avon and Somerset Probation Trust Jenny Chapman: To ask the Secretary of State for Drivers) Accredited Justice how many contracts his Department holds for Essex Probation Trust the transfer of prisoners between prisons in England Greater Manchester Probation Trust and Wales; which organisations hold each such Hampshire Probation Trust contract; what the value is of such contracts; and when Hertfordshire Probation Trust each contract will next be renewed. [158166] Kent Probation Trust Jeremy Wright: A question (154940) was previously Lancashire Probation Trust asked by the hon. Member on the value of contracts Leicestershire and Rutland held for transporting prisoners between prisons. The Probation Trust response is provided at the following Hansard link: Lincolnshire Probation Trust http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/ Merseyside Probation Trust cmhansrd/cm130521/text/130521w0004.htm#1305224002334 Northamptonshire Probation Trust Northumbria Probation Trust Prisons: Electronic Equipment South Yorkshire Probation Trust Staffordshire and West Midlands Probation Trust Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Wales Probation Trust how much was spent on (a) televisions, (b) games Warwickshire Probation Trust consoles, (c) subscription television channels and (d) West Mercia Probation Trust DVD players in privately-run prisons in the financial years (i) 2010-11, (ii) 2011-12 and (iii) 2012-13. [154945] West Yorkshire Probation Trust Wiltshire Probation Trust Jeremy Wright: The National Offender Management York and North Yorkshire Probation Service does not hold expenditure details on televisions, Trust games consoles or DVD players used in privately run prisons. Invoices from contractors, in respect of the Alcohol—LIAP (Low Intensity Avon and Somerset Probation Trust services provided, are based upon contract pricing contained Alcohol Programme) Accredited within the appropriate Payment Mechanism Schedule Derbyshire Probation Trust for each individual contract. Devon and Cornwall Probation Trust Subscription television channels are currently available Dorset Probation Trust in some contracted out prisons but not in public sector Lincolnshire Probation Trust prisons. The changes we are introducing to the IEP scheme mean that access to subscription television channels Staffordshire and West Midlands Probation Trust is being removed from contracted out prisons. 285W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 286W

Programme category and title Main provider (probation trust) Programme category and title Main provider (probation trust)

Warwickshire Probation Trust Leicestershire and Rutland Probation Trust Lincolnshire Probation Trust Anger—CALM Accredited Derbyshire Probation Trust London Probation Trust Durham Tees Valley Probation Trust Merseyside Probation Trust Greater Manchester Probation Trust Norfolk and Suffolk Probation Trust Humberside Probation Trust Northamptonshire Probation Trust Lancashire Probation Trust Northumbria Probation Trust Lincolnshire Probation Trust Nottinghamshire Probation Trust Merseyside Probation Trust South Yorkshire Probation Trust Northamptonshire Probation Trust Staffordshire and West Midlands Nottinghamshire Probation Trust Probation Trust Wales Probation Trust Drug and Alcohol—ASRO Avon and Somerset Probation Trust West Mercia Probation Trust (Addressing Substance Related Offending) Accredited West Yorkshire Probation Trust Wiltshire Probation Trust Drug and Alcohol—Building Skills Dorset Probation Trust for Recovery (BSR)—Accredited Sexual Offending—N-SOGP Cheshire Probation Trust Essex Probation trust Accredited Gloucestershire Probation Trust Cumbria Probation Trust Greater Manchester Probation Trust Durham Tees Valley Probation Trust Merseyside Probation Trust Greater Manchester Probation Trust Northumbria Probation Trust Humberside Probation Trust Wales Probation Trust Lancashire Probation Trust West Yorkshire Probation Trust Merseyside Probation Trust Northumbria Probation Trust Drug and Alcohol—OSAP Hertfordshire Probation Trust South Yorkshire Probation Trust (Offender Substance Abuse Programme Accredited West Yorkshire Probation Trust Staffordshire and West Midlands York and North Yorkshire Probation Probation Trust Trust Warwickshire Probation Trust Sexual Offending—TVSOGP Avon and Somerset Probation Trust Accredited General Offending—Priestley 1:1 Essex Probation Trust (One to One) programme Accredited Bedfordshire Probation Trust Hertfordshire Probation Trust Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Probation Trust Staffordshire and West Midlands Probation Trust Devon and Cornwall Probation Trust Warwickshire Probation Trust Dorset Probation Trust Essex Probation Trust General Offending—TSP Accredited Avon and Somerset Probation Trust Gloucestershire Probation Trust Bedfordshire Probation Trust Hampshire Probation Trust Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Probation Trust Hertfordshire Probation Trust Cheshire Probation Trust Kent Probation Trust Cumbria Probation Trust Norfolk and Suffolk Probation Trust Derbyshire Probation Trust Surrey and Sussex Probation Trust Devon and Cornwall Probation Thames Valley Probation Trust Trust Wiltshire Probation Trust Dorset Probation Trust Durham Tees Valley Probation Trust Essex Probation Trust Violence—ART Accredited Avon and Somerset Probation Trust Bedfordshire Probation Trust Gloucestershire Probation Trust Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Greater Manchester Probation Trust Probation Trust Hampshire Probation Trust Essex Probation Trust Hertfordshire Probation Trust Hertfordshire Probation Trust Humberside Probation Trust Kent Probation Trust Kent Probation Trust London Probation Trust Lancashire Probation Trust Norfolk and Suffolk Probation Trust 287W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 288W

Telephone Services Programme category and title Main provider (probation trust)

Wiltshire Probation Trust John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice whether his Department receives any financial or Violence—RESOLVE Accredited Gloucestershire Probation Trust non-financial benefit from its telephone providers for Hampshire Probation Trust telephone lines that (a) his Department and (b) the agencies for which he is responsible operate, including Northumbria Probation Trust but not limited to (i) a share of call revenue, (ii) a Staffordshire and West Midlands reduction in the Department’s telephone bill or tariff Probation Trust and (iii) telephony services for free or at a reduced Wales Probation Trust price. [157742]

Women’s Programme Accredited Greater Manchester Probation Trust Mrs Grant: The Ministry of Justice does not receive any financial or non-financial benefit from its telephone providers for telephone lines that (a) the Department Public Sector: Information and (b) its agencies operate including (i) any share of call revenue (ii) any reduction in the Department’s telephone bill or tariff and (iii) any telephony services Craig Whittaker: To ask the Secretary of State for for free or at a reduced price. Justice whether he has plans to bring forward legislative proposals to amend current legislation Vetting: Construction relating to Public Sector Information Re-use and the Environmental Information regulations. [158822] Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what steps he has taken to ensure that the Information Mrs Grant: The Re-use of Public Sector Information Commissioner’s Office is proactively informing Regulations 2005 implement Directive 2003/98/EC of individuals who are on the blacklist of construction the European Parliament and of the Council on the workers compiled by the Consulting Association. re-use of public sector information. In December 2011 [158002] the European Commission proposed a directive to amend 2003/98/EC. This amending directive has now reached Mrs Grant: The Information Commissioner’s Office the final stages of negotiations in Europe and is likely to (ICO) is the independent regulatory body responsible be adopted by the end of June 2013. The directive then for enforcing the Data Protection Act 1998 in the UK. allows two years from the date of adoption for member Any individual can check whether they may have states to transpose it into domestic legislation. been on the Consulting Association blacklist by contacting The Government has no current plans to amend the the ICO’s fast track service helpline on 0303 123 1113 Environmental Information Regulations 2004. between 9 am and 5 pm, Monday to Friday. To date 3,652 individuals have contacted the helpline, and copies of personal data held in the files have been provided to Roads: Accidents 385 individuals. The ICO has also responded positively to calls upon Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice them to proactively contact people who may not otherwise if he will bring forward proposals for the treatment of have been made aware of the issue. For instance, it has bereaved and injured people as a result of road worked with a credit reference agency in order to reach accidents as victims of crime until the contrary is such individuals. The ICO is pursuing a matching exercise proven. [157716] involving national insurance numbers which they hope will enable them to contact more individuals. The ICO Mrs Grant: It is right that victims of crime get the has also provided some information under confidentiality support they need. The Code of Practice for Victims agreements to trade unions who have carried out their of Crime (Victims’ Code) requires that any person own matching exercises. As a result of this individuals alleging they are a victim of criminal conduct that are either contacting the ICO directly or the ICO is falls under the National Crime Recording Standard, or providing information to them via legal representatives who has had an allegation made on their behalf, is of the union. entitled to services under the Code. Where a person has Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act 1999 died as a result of criminal conduct, or is unable to receive services as a result of a disability, the victim’s Sir Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for family spokesperson is entitled to receive services under Justice when he expects to bring into force section 28 of the Code. The Government recently consulted on a the Youth and Crime Act 1999. [158138] review of the Victims’ Code. The consultation ran from 29 March until 10 May. We are analysing the responses Mrs Grant: The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of and intend to publish the Government’s response this State for Justice, my right hon. Friend the Member for summer. Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), today announced In addition, for the three financial years from 1 April the Government’s plan to pilot section 28 by the end of 2011, the Ministry of Justice allocated a total of the year in three Crown court locations—Liverpool, approximately £820,000 funding for services for victims Leeds and Kingston-upon-Thames. The pilots will run of road crime. These expert services were delivered to for six months followed by an assessment period with victims through organisations such as Brake, the Road the intention of rolling the measure out more widely if Victims Trust, Aftermath Support and RoadPeace. it proves a success. 289W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 290W

CABINET OFFICE hosts the Register of Removed Trustees that enables others to search for the name of a person against the Register. The Register Charities of Removed Trustees provides details of anyone who has been removed as a trustee by the High Court or the Commission. There are currently 105 people who were removed by the court or Dan Jarvis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet the Commission (England and Wales). For each disqualified Office how many charity trustees have been removed by person, we hold their name, address at the time of removal, the the Charity Commission for unacceptable behaviour in date when the order was made and the name of the charity each year since 2010. [159121] concerned.

Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Dan Jarvis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet responsibility of the Charity Commission. I have asked Office how many enforcement visits have been carried the Commission’s chief executive to reply. out by the Charity Commission in each year since Letter from Sam Younger, dated 10 June 2013: 2010. [159122] I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question on the number of charity trustees removed by the Charity Commission Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the for unacceptable behaviour in each year since 2010. responsibility of the Charity Commission. I have asked First, may I start by explaining under the current law that any the Commission’s chief executive to reply. one can become a trustee of a charity, unless they are disqualified Letter from Sam Younger, dated 10 June 2013: by law from acting under an individual’s charity governing document or under the Charities Act 2011. Sections 178 - 180 of the I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question on Charities Act 2011 prescribe that the following people will commit the number of enforcement visits that have been carried out by a criminal offence if they act and they fall into one of a number the Charity Commission in each year since 2010. categories including: In the context of our normal casework and investigations the anyone who has an unspent conviction for an offence involving Commission conducts various forms of visits and meetings with deception or dishonesty charities and trustees, either visiting premises or asking them to attend our offices to deal with various non compliance issues. anyone who is an undischarged bankrupt These can include carrying out financial books and records anyone who has been removed from trusteeship of a charity by inspections. In the past year this has taken place on over 90 the Court or the Commission for misconduct or mismanagement occasions. anyone under a disqualification order under the Company In addition, we conduct more ‘compliance visits’ as part of Directors Disqualification Act 1986 targeted, proactive monitoring work. Until December 2011 this anyone who has entered into a composition or arrangement was carried out by the Monitoring Unit in the Compliance with their creditors which includes an individual voluntary Division. After the Strategic Review, following budget cuts of a arrangement (IVA), and is currently on the Insolvency Service third in real terms between 2009/10 and 2014/15, this work has Register. continued in the Investigations and Enforcement Team. The We carry out various checks on individuals to identify where following refers to the number of ‘compliance visits’ the respective this may be the case. teams have carried out in the last 3 years: Aside from this, the Commission has a limited power to 2009/10—14 visits remove an individual from their office of trusteeship: this power 2010/11—20 visits can only be exercised after a statutory inquiry has been opened 2011/12—21 visits and where there is sufficient evidence that a) there has been 2012/13—25 visits misconduct or mismanagement in the administration of the charily b) it is desirable to act to protect the property of the charity or 2013/14—11 visits since April 1 secure its proper application and c) the individual in question has been responsible for, privy to, has contributed to or facilitated the Dan Jarvis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet misconduct or mismanagement. In addition, we have to be satisfied, Office what checks take place when an organisation in accordance with our statutory duty to have regard to the principles of best regulatory practice, that it is proportionate and applies to register as a charity to ensure that there is a targeted only at a case in which action is needed. Under the clear public benefit from the activities of that legislation, before we can exercise the power, we must issue a organisation. [159182] notice of intention to remove giving the individual concerned at least one month’s prior notice of the removal when they can make Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the representations. responsibility of the Charity Commission. I have asked Since 2010, we have not gone past the notice stage to exercise the Commission’s chief executive to reply. that particular power. We have exercised the power to suspend an individual (which can be a precursor to removal) where there is Letter from Sam Younger, dated 10 June 2013: evidence of misconduct or mismanagement or risk to property I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question on the following times: the checks that take place when an organisation applies to register 2009/10—1; as a charity to ensure that there is a clear public benefit from the activities of that organisation. 2010/11—1; It is a matter of law whether an organisation is a charity. An 2011/12—1; organisation must have exclusively charitable purposes for the Sometimes we cannot proceed to use our powers for a number public benefit in order to be registered. of reasons; including as in one recent case where we issued a notice of intention to remove but before we could remove them In assessing an application to become a charity we consider: the individual was convicted with an offence in connection with Whether the purposes stated in the governing document fall the mismanagement in the charity that disqualified them anyway. within the descriptions of purposes set out in the Charities It may also no longer be necessary because the individual resigns Act 2011 their position during our regulatory engagement with them. Whether the information provided by the applicant demonstrates Our website: that those purposes are for the public benefit http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/about-charities/ It is not to be presumed that a purpose of a particular register-of-removed-trustees/ description is for the public benefit (section 4 (2) of the 2011 Act). 291W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 292W

In making our assessment we refer to: Mr Hurd [holding answer 10 June 2013]: The information ‘Charities and Public Benefit’ and the linked series of public requested falls within the responsibility of the UK benefit publications Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Our published guidance in the RR and CC series Letter from Glen Watson, dated June 2013: The Decisions of the Commission and relevant case law Where the expressed purposes of the organisation are not clear As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I or if it is not clear how it will further that purpose for the public have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question, asking, benefit we will also consider any relevant actual or proposed pursuant to the Answer of 3 June 2013, Official Report, columns activities. In some cases we also liaise with other agencies or 957-8W, on conditions of employment, how many people were Government departments. If we have concerns relating to possible employed on zero hours contracts in each three month period in private benefit we request further details. the last five years. 158940 Determining charitable status of an organisation is in most Information regarding people working on zero-hours contracts cases straightforward, but in a minority of cases it may be a is available from the Labour Force Survey (LFS). Full estimates complex decision. of the total number of people in employment on such contracts If we are unable to determine that the applicant organisation is are only available for the October to December quarter each year. established for exclusively charitable purposes for the public The information is not collected in either the January to March or benefit we may reject the application. Last year, 36 organisations’ the July to September periods. It is collected in the April to June applications were rejected. An organisation which is refused may period but not from all eligible respondents. Consequently figures appeal to the Charity Tribunal. It may also invoke our internal for April to June would be underestimates that would not be Decision Review procedures. consistent with those for the October to December period each Conditions of Employment year. The table provides estimates for the October to December Stephen Timms: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet period in each of the last five years. Office pursuant to his answer of 3 June 2013, Official As with any sample survey, estimates from the LFS are subject Report, columns 957-8W, on conditions of to a margin of uncertainty. An indication of the quality of the employment, how many people were employed on zero estimates provided is given in the table. In addition, there is likely hours contracts in each three month period in the last to be a degree of reporting error in these estimates as respondents five years. [158940] may fail to identify their type of employment contract correctly.

People in employment on zero-hours contracts1 October to December, 2008-12, not seasonally adjusted, UK All persons Total (thousand) As a proportion of total employment (percentage)

2008 116 0.4 2009 151 0.5 2010 130 0.4 2011 152 0.5 2012 **200 0.7 1 A zero-hours contract is defined as a contract of employment which does not specify a fixed number of hours per week and has no guaranteed minimum number of hours. Guide to Quality: The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of an estimate, the smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to lie within +/- twice the CV—for example, for an estimate of 200 with a CV of 5% we would expect the population total to be within the range 180-220. Key: * 0 = CV<5%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered precise **5=CV<10%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered reasonably precise *** 10 = CV <20%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered acceptable **** CV = 20%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered too unreliable for practical purposes CV = Coefficient of Variation Source: Annual Population Survey and Annual Labour Force Survey

Crimes against the Person The CSEW is a face-to-face victimisation survey in which people resident in households in England and Wales are asked about their experiences of a range of crimes in the 12 months Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet prior to their interview. The survey asks people about offences Office how many crimes against the person per 1,000 that have been specifically committed against them, for example: adults there were in each of the last 30 years. [159015] ’theft from the person’, and offences that have been targeted at their household, for example: ’burglary’. Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Crime incidence rates up to 2011/12 were published by ONS as responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have part of the ’Crime Statistics, period ending March 2012’ release, asked the authority to reply. available here: Letter from Glen Watson, dated June 2013: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/ As Director General for the Office for National Statistics period-ending-march-2012/index.html (ONS), I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question Data for 2012/13 are due to be published as part of the ’Crime asking for the number of crimes against the person per 1,000 Statistics, period ending March 2013’ release on 18 July 2013. adults there were in each of the last 30 years. (159015) Crime statistics for Scotland and Northern Ireland are collected The following table provides the incident rates per 1,000 adults/ and published separately, and can be downloaded from: households for all personal/household crimes in England and Wales, as measured by the Crime Survey for England and Wales Scotland: (CSEW) in each year for which data are available since the survey http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Crime- first ran in 1981. Justice 293W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 294W

Northern Ireland: Letter from Glen Watson, dated June 2013: http://www.dojni.gov.uk/index/statistics-research/stats- As the Director General of the Office for National Statistics, I research-publications/northern-ireland-crime-survey-s-r/r--s- have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question bulletin-1-2013-experience-of-crime-findings-from-the-2011- asking the Minister for the Cabinet Office what information the 12-northern-ireland-crime-survey.htm Department holds on the average rating of satisfaction with (a) Table 1: Trends in CSEW incidence rates for personal and household crime from social and (b) family life in each year for which figures are 1981 to 2011/12, England and Wales. Adults aged 16 and over available (158974). Please see the tables. Rates per 1,000 adults/households For Satisfaction with social life, we obtained UK data for 2003, Period All personal crime2 All household crime3 2007 and 2011 and EU comparison data for 2011. For Satisfaction with family life, we obtained data for 2003, 2007 and 2011. The 1981 106 379 data were accessed from the Eurofound survey and can be found 1983 108 412 at: 1987 108 462 1991 117 512 http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/ 1993 148 601 http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/areas/qualityoflife/eurlife/ 1995 170 586 index.php?template=3&radioindic=61&idDomain=5 1997 150 490 The information you are requesting has been used by the 1999 135 430 Office for National Statistics as part of our Measuring National 2001/021 113 359 Well-being Programme. 2002/03 113 343 The Programme was launched in November 2010 and the aim 2003/04 107 322 of the programme is to develop and publish an accepted and 2004/05 95 298 trusted set of National Statistics that helps people to understand 2005/06 96 294 and monitor national well-being. More details of the programme 2006/07 96 304 can be found at: 2007/08 86 273 http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/user-guidance/well- 2008/09 89 283 being/index.html 2009/10 82 252 Average rating of satisfaction with social life 2010/11 84 250 Average rating out of 10 2011/12 83 243 Countries 2011 1 Prior to 2001/02, CSEW estimates relate to crimes experienced in a given calendar year. From 2001/02 onwards the estimates relate to crimes experienced Austria 8.1 In the last 12 months based on interviews in the given financial year. 2 ’All personal crime’ includes: ’Theft from the person’; ’Other theft of personal Belgium 7.5 property’; ’All violence’. Bulgaria 5.9 3 ’All household crime’ includes; ’Vandalism’; ’Burglary’; ’Vehicle-related theft’: Croatia 6.9 ’Bicycle theft’; ’Other household theft’. Source: Cyprus 8.1 Crime Survey for England and Wales, Office for National Statistics Czech Republic 6.8 Germany 7.5 Cybercrime Denmark 8.3 Estonia 6.9 Nicholas Soames: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Finland 7.8 Office what steps he is taking to improve cyber-security France 7.4 within the critical national infrastructure supply chain; Greece 7.1 Hungary 6.8 and if he will make a statement. [159060] Ireland 7.1 Italy 7.3 Miss Chloe Smith: In the National Cyber Security Lithuania 6.7 Strategy we committed to achieving: Luxembourg 7.8 ″bolstered defences in our critical national infrastructure (CNI) Latvia 6.5 against cyber attack.″ Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia 6.8 Through our investment in CPNI (Centre for Protection Malta 7.4 for National Infrastructure) and GCHQ as well as lead Netherlands 7.5 Government Departments, we are supporting critical Poland 6.6 national infrastructure companies to identify and address Portugal 7.2 the cyber threats they face, including by improving the Romania 7.4 cyber security of their supply chains. Spain 7.6 Slovenia 7.2 Health Slovakia 6.8 Sweden 7.7 Turkey 6.2 Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet UK 7.0 Office what information his Department collects on the Note: average rating of satisfaction with (a) social and (b) Respondents were asked: please tell me how satisfied you are with your social life, using a scale from 1 to 10 where (1) means you are ’very dissatisfied’ and family life in each year for which figures are available. (10) means you are ’very satisfied’? [158974] Satisfaction with social life 1 2 3 Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the 2003 2007 2011 responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Percentage 56.8 65.9 65.7 asked the authority to reply. Score out of 10 7 8 7 295W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 296W

Satisfaction with social life Letter from Glen Watson, dated June 2013: 1 2 3 2003 2007 2011 As Director General of the Office for National Statistics, I Sample 1,012 3,671 2,252 have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question asking what information his Department holds on the proportion 1 Great Britain coverage only. 2 United Kingdom coverage without sampling in Scottish Highland and of the people in the UK who rated their anxiety level as medium Islands or Isles of Scilly. or low in each year for which figures are available (158975). 3 United Kingdom coverage The proportion of people in the UK who rated their anxiety Source: Eurofound, European quality of life survey level the previous day as medium or low was 60.0 per cent, the figures relate to the period between April 2011 and March 2012. Average rating of satisfaction with family life A medium anxiety level is defined as a rating of 2 to 3 out of Average rating out of 10 10; a low anxiety level is defined as a rating of 0 to 1 out of 10. Countries 2003 2006 2007 2011 The information you are requesting has been used by the Office for National Statistics as part of our Measuring National Austria 8.2 — 7.5 8.4 Well-being Programme. Belgium 7.9 — 8.1 7.8 The Programme was launched in November 2010 and the aim Bulgaria 7.1 — 6.5 6.7 of the programme is to develop and publish an accepted and Croatia — 7.5 7.6 7.9 trusted set of National Statistics that helps people to understand Cyprus 7.9 — 8.5 8.9 and monitor national well-being. More details of the programme Czech Republic 7.5 — 8.0 7.2 can be found at: Denmark 8.7 — 8.8 8.4 http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/user-guidance/well- Estonia 7.1 — 7.7 7.3 being/index.html Finland 8.2 — 8.5 8.4 France 7.4 — 8.2 7.8 Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Germany 8.1 — 8.0 7.7 Office what information his Department holds on the Greece 8.2 — 7.9 7.7 proportion of people in the UK who rated their Hungary 7.8 — 7.4 7.5 happiness as medium or high in each year for which Ireland 8.2 — 7.9 8.4 figures are available. [158995] Italy 8.0 — 7.4 7.6 Latvia 6.5 — 7.1 7.3 Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Lithuania 7.0 — 7.5 7.5 responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Former Yugoslav —— 6.97.7asked the authority to reply. Republic of Macedonia Letter from Glen Watson, dated June 2013: Luxembourg 8.4 — 8.5 8.2 As Director General of the Office for National Statistics, I Norway — — 8.0 — have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question Malta 8.5 — 8.7 8.4 asking what information his Department holds on the proportion Netherlands 7.7 — 7.8 7.8 of people in the UK who rated their happiness as medium or high Poland 7.8 — 7.9 7.5 in each year for which figures are available. (158995). Portugal 7.4 — 7.4 7.9 The proportion of people in the UK who rated their happiness Romania 8.1 — 7.8 8.3 level the previous day as medium or high was 71.0 percent, the Slovakia 7.1 — 7.8 7.6 figures relate to the period between April 2011 and March 2012. Slovenia 7.7 — 7.9 7.8 A medium happiness level is defined as a rating of 7 to 8 out Spain 8.2 — 7.9 8.2 of 10; a high happiness level is defined as a rating of 9 to 10 out of 10. Sweden 8.1 — 8.5 8.1 Turkey 7.8 — 7.7 8.0 The information you are requesting has been used by the Office for National Statistics as part of our Measuring National United Kingdom 7.9 — 8.2 8.2 Well-being Programme. EU-27 — — 7.9 7.8 Notes: The Programme was launched in November 2010 and the aim 1. Respondents were asked: please tell me how satisfied you are with your of the programme is to develop and publish an accepted and family life, using a scale from 1 to 10 where (1) means you are ’very trusted set of National Statistics that helps people to understand dissatisfied’ and (10) means you are ’very satisfied’? and monitor national well-being. More details of the programme 2. EU15- EU member states prior to enlargement in 2004 (Austria, Belgium, can be found at: Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and the United Kingdom). http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/user-guidance/well- 3. NMS12-12 new member states, 10 of which joined the EU in 2004 (Cyprus, being/index.html the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia) and the remaining to in 2007 (Bulgaria and Romania). 4. EU27—27 EU member states. Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 5. CC3—3 candidate countries—Croatia, Former Yugoslav Republic of Office what information his Department holds on the Macedonia and Turkey. Source: proportion of people that were somewhat, mostly or Eurofound, European quality of life survey completely satisfied with (a) their jobs and (b) the amount of leisure time they had in each year for which Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet figures are available. [159013] Office what information his Department holds on the proportion of the people in the UK who rated their Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the anxiety level as medium or low in each year for which responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have figures are available. [158975] asked the authority to reply. Letter from Glen Watson, dated June 2013: Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the As the Director General of the Office for National Statistics, I responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question asked the authority to reply. asking the Minister for the Cabinet Office what information the 297W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 298W

Department holds on the proportion of people that were somewhat, The information you are requesting has been used by the mostly or completely satisfied with (a) their jobs and (b) the Office for National Statistics as part of our Measuring National amount of leisure time they had in each year for which figures are Well-being Programme. The data we hold for all measures of available (159013). national well-being can be found in the Domains and Measures spreadsheet which is available here: For those who were somewhat, mostly or completely satisfied with their (a) job and (b) amount of leisure time, we have data http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/user-guidance/well- from 2002/03 to 2010/11. Please see the tables below: being/index.html The data for 2009/10 and 2010/11 are taken from the Understanding The Programme was launched in November 2010 and the aim Society survey and all earlier data has been taken from the British of the programme is to develop and publish an accepted and Household Panel Survey, (the predecessor to the Understanding trusted set of National Statistics that helps people to understand Society survey). The data can be found at: and monitor national well-being. More details of the programme can be found at: http://www.esds.ac.uk/longitudinal/access/bhps/L33196.asp http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/user-guidance/well- https://www.understandingsociety.ac.uk/ being/index.html

Percentage who were somewhat, mostly or completely satisfied with their job, United Kingdom Satisfaction with job1 Percentages2 Responses 2002/03 2003/04 2004/05 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2003/09 2009/103,4 2010/113,4

Somewhat, mostly 68.8 70.8 70.3 70.0 70.6 70.3 71.9 77. 8 78.5 or completely satisfied Completely 11.9 12.1 11.5 11.9 11.3 11.0 11.5 18.5 16.9 satisfied Mostly satisfied 25.6 29.5 26.2 27.7 27.7 29.2 30.1 42.9 42.9 Somewhat 31.3 29.2 30.5 30.3 31.6 30.2 30.3 16.4 18.7 satisfied Neither satisfied 15.7 15.5 16.3 15.6 15.8 15.9 15.6 7.0 7.2 nor dissatisfied Somewhat 8.2 8.2 7.5 7.3 7.9 7.7 7.4 8.0 8.2 dissatisfied Mostly dissatisfied 4.2 3.3 3.9 4.4 3.9 4.1 3.4 4.1 3.6 Completely 3.0 2.2 2.1 2.8 1.7 2.0 1.8 3.1 2.3 dissatisfied 1 Responses to “How dissatisfied or satisfied are you with...... Your job (if in employment)” 2 The percentages are of those who responded. 3 Responses to earlier waves of the BHPS differ. However, they have always been on a 7 point scale varying from completely (or very) satisfied to completely (or very) dissatisfied. 4 2009/10 data cannot be compared to previous years as sample size is different from previous survey. Source: British Panel Household Survey/Understanding Society

Percentage who were somewhat, mostly or completely satisfied with their amount of leisure time, United Kingdom Satisfaction with amount of leisure time1 Percentages2 Responses 2002/03 2003/04 2004/05 2005/06 2006-07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/103,4 2010/113,4

Somewhat, mostly or 60.6 61.7 60.4 58.1 61.6 62.7 62.9 62.3 60.9 completely satisfied Completely satisfied 20.9 18.2 17.6 17.5 18.5 17.2 18.0 15.5 16.1 Mostly satisfied 17.6 19.2 19.2 17.6 19.0 20.4 20.8 26.5 25.9 Somewhat satisfied 22.1 24.2 23.6 22.9 24.1 25.1 24.2 20.3 18.9 Neither satisfied nor 18.8 18.8 18.8 19.0 19.0 18.6 18.7 12.9 13.7 dissatisfied Somewhat dissatisfied 12.0 11.6 12.6 13.3 11.7 11.2 10.9 14.3 15.0 Mostly dissatisfied 6.0 5.1 5.5 6.5 5.5 5.3 5.2 6.6 6.7 Completely 2.6 2.8 2.7 3.2 2.3 2.1 2.3 3.9 3.7 dissatisfied 1 Responses to “How dissatisfied or satisfied are you with...... The amount of leisure time you have”. 2 The percentages are of those who responded. 3 Responses to earlier waves of the BHPS differ. However, they have always been on a 7 point scale varying from completely (or very) satisfied to completely (or very) dissatisfied. 4 2009/10 data cannot be compared to previous years as sample size is different from previous survey. Source: British Panel Household Survey/Understanding Society

Politics and Government Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what information his Department holds on the Letter from Glen Watson, dated June 2013: (a) number and (b) proportion of UK citizens who As the Director General of the Office for National Statistics, I had trust in the Government in each year for which have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question figures are available. [159056] asking the Minister for the Cabinet Office what information the 299W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 300W

Department holds on the (a) number and (b) proportion of UK http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/index_en.htm citizens who had trust in the Government in each year available. The information you are requesting has been used by the (159056). Office for National Statistics as part of our Measuring National For those with trust in the (UK) Government, we hold percentages Well-being Programme. for those who answer ’tend to trust’. Responses are as at spring The Programme was launched in November 2010 and the aim and autumn each year from 2004 to 2012, please see the following of the programme is to develop and publish an accepted and table: trusted set of National Statistics that helps people to understand The data have been taken from the Eurobarometer website and monitor national well-being. More details of the programme which is the website for the Public Opinion Analysis sector of the can be found at: European Commission. The data can be accessed by following http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/user-guidance/well- the link detailed as follows: being/index.html

Percentage of those who have trust in national Government Trust1 in national government, the national parliament, and the European Union (percentage ’who tend to trust’) European Union National Parliament National Government EU UK EU UK EU UK

Autumn 2004 50 35 38 37 34 32 Spring 2005 44 27 35 36 31 34 Autumn 2005 45 25 35 37 31 33 Spring 2006 48 31 38 36 35 30 Autumn 2006 45 26 33 29 30 24 Spring 2007 57 36 43 41 41 34 Autumn 2007 48 29 35 34 34 30 Spring 2008 50 29 34 27 32 24 Autumn 2008 47 25 34 30 34 29 Spring 2009 47 22 32 17 32 21 Autumn 2009 48 23 30 19 29 19 Spring 2010 42 20 31 24 29 26 Autumn 2010 43 20 31 27 28 28 Spring 2011 41 24 33 29 32 32 Autumn 2011 34 17 27 24 24 21 Spring 2012 31 16 28 23 28 21 Autumn 2012 33 20 28 26 27 25 1 Respondents were asked if they ’tend to trust’ or ’trend to not trust’ a range of institutions. Figures are for those who answered ’tend to trust’. Source: Eurobarometer

Public Sector: Mutual Societies procurement of contracts for public works, public supply and public service. [158017] Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Miss Chloe Smith: The Minister for the Cabinet Office how much his Office has spent on the (a) Office and Paymaster General, my right hon. Friend the administration of the Mutuals Taskforce and (b) Member for Horsham (Mr Maude), visited Brussels on supporting of new public sector mutuals since the 8 May 2013. formation of the Mutuals Taskforce. [158336]

Mr Hurd: The Mutuals Taskforce came together in Voluntary Work February 2011 to support the creation and development Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet of public service mutual. Officials in Cabinet Office Office what proportion of people volunteered in each provide a Secretariat function but there is no dedicated year for which figures are available. [159011] funding attached to the operation of the taskforce. Members of the taskforce participate on a pro-bono Mr Hurd: Official Statistics published by the Cabinet basis. Travel expenses totalling £1,527 have been reimbursed Office on 25 April 2013 (cumulative findings from quarter to the 11 members to support their activities. 2 and 3 of the Community Life Survey—covering the In addition, we have established a modest Mutuals period August 2012 to January 2013) show that the Support Programme. To date, the Mutuals Support proportion of people undertaking formal or informal Programme, which includes the Mutuals Information volunteering at least once a year now stands at 72%. Service, has awarded £2,303,852 of contracts, with a This is an increase from 65% in 2010-11, with a similarly further £800,000 of support approved. large increase in the proportion of people volunteering regularly (at least once a month). This reverses the Public Sector: Procurement decline in levels of volunteering in recent years. This information is available at: John Robertson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet http://communitylife.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/ Office pursuant to the answers of 14 May 2013, Official Prior to the Community Life Survey, data on volunteering Report, column 132W and 133W on public sector: were published via the Citizenship Survey which ran procurement, when he last met the European between 2001-2011. This information is available here: Commission to discuss the proposed change to http://communitylife.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/explore-the- Article 19 of the European directive on the data.html 301W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 302W

WORK AND PENSIONS be released as part of a managed process, which will be pre-announced and in line with the Code of Practice for Atos Healthcare Official Statistics. The following table shows, as of March 2013, the Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work number of 1993 and 2003 scheme cases administered by and Pensions how much Atos will receive from the Child Support Agency in Barnsley Central, South contracts held with his Department in each of the next Yorkshire and England. three years. [159144] Area Number of cases Mr Hoban: We are unable to comment on the forecast Barnsley central constituency 2,350 expenditure for the Atos contracts because they are South Yorkshire 29,750 subject to change. However, the total contract values England 944,090 are estimated to be as follows: Notes: 1. The question has been interpreted as the number of live and assessed cases. Estimated 2. South Yorkshire has been calculated by adding up the totals for Barnsley, contract value Doncaster, Sheffield and Rotherham local authorities. Contract name Start date End date (£) 3. England has been calculated by adding up the totals for each parliamentary constituency in England. Medical Services 1 September 31 August 2015 983,000,000 4. Cases are allocated to a parliamentary constituency or local authority by 2005 matching the parent with care’s residential postcode to the Office for National Personal 31 July 2012 30 July 2017 206,703,507 Statistics Postcode Directory. Independence 5. Figures rounded to nearest 10 Payment (PIP) 6. Figures have been rated to include off system performance. Assessment Domestic Violence Service (Lot 1) Personal 31 July 2012 30 July 2017 183,894,556 Independence Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Payment (PIP) and Pensions what assessment he has made of the Assessment Service (Lot 3) number of victims of domestic violence in each local Occupational 4 August 2008 2 August 2013 12,000,000 authority who have been rehoused as a result of a Health Multi-Age Risk Assessment Conference and in enGage 1 March 2006 31 March 2014 200,000,000 consequence are under-occupying. [158351] Government Gateway Mandatory Work 30 July 2012 31 March 2015 3,112,164 Steve Webb: The information requested is not available. Activity Employment Capita Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) if he will make an assessment of the Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Work employment rate of (a) the working-age male and Pensions how much his Department currently population and (b) all male persons over the age of 16, spends on contracts with Capita; and how much was in the first quarter of 2013 compared with the first spent in each year since 2008. [158476] quarter of 2008 for (i) each constituent part and region of the UK and (ii) each parliamentary constituency; Mr Hoban: Since 1 January 2008, the Capita group of and what the gap in the number of jobs between the companies have held sixteen Department for Work and higher and lower of these two figures is in each case; Pensions contracts. The total value of those contracts is [159215] £586,448,589. (2) if he will make an assessment of the employment Of those sixteen contracts, twelve are still live and rate of (a) the working-age female population and (b) they have a total value of £584,508,318. all female persons over the age of 16, in the first Since January 2011, central Government Departments quarter of 2013 compared with the first quarter of have been required to publish on Contracts Finder 2008 for (i) each constituent part and region of the UK information on the contracts they award: and (ii) each parliamentary constituency; and what the www.contractsfinder.businesslink.gov.uk/ gap in the number of jobs between the higher and In addition, departments publish details of spend in lower of these two figures is in each case; [159216] excess of £25,000. (3) if he will make an assessment of the employment rate of (a) the working-age population and (b) all Children: Maintenance persons over the age of 16, in the first quarter of 2013 compared with the first quarter of 2008 for (i) each Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Work constituent part and region of the UK and (ii) each and Pensions how many parents in (a) Barnsley parliamentary constituency; and what the gap in the Central constituency, (b) South Yorkshire and (c) number of jobs between the higher and lower of these England use the child maintenance service. [159123] two figures is in each case. [159217]

Steve Webb: We are carefully observing results of the Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the 2012 scheme, administered by the Child Maintenance Cabinet Office. Service, and progress so far has been good. However, we The information requested falls within the responsibility are not yet in a position to release statistics. When of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority system data become available and fully assured they will to reply. 303W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 304W

Letter from Glen Watson, dated June 2013: Department does not refer employment and support As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I allowance claimants with mental health conditions for have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Questions asking treatment. the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions for the employment rate of (a) the working-age male population and (b) all male Food Banks persons over the age of 16, in the first quarter of 2013 compared with the first quarter of 2008 for (i) each constituent part and region of the UK and (ii) each parliamentary constituency; and Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for what the gap in the number of jobs between the higher and lower Work and Pensions if he will make an assessment of of these two figures is in each case (159215) whether welfare changes and benefit delay, error and The employment rate of (a) the working-age female population sanctions have led to an increase in people using food and (b) all female persons over the age of 16, in the first quarter of banks since 2010. [159002] 2013 compared with the first quarter of 2008 for (i) each constituent part and region of the UK and (ii) each parliamentary constituency; and what the gap in the number of jobs between the higher and Mr Hoban: The Department for Work and Pensions lower of these two figures is in each case. (159216); does not hold or collect information of referrals to or usage of food banks. The employment rate of (a) the working-age population and (b) all persons over the age of 16, in the first quarter of 2013 compared with the first quarter of 2008 for (i) each constituent Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing part and region of the UK and (ii) each parliamentary constituency; and what the gap in the number of jobs between the higher and lower of these two figures is in each case (159217). Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will make an estimate of the amounts The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles employment statistics for local areas from the Annual Population Survey paid out in discretionary housing payments by each (APS) following International Labour Organisation (ILO) definitions local authority in England, Wales and Scotland to local and for regions and the UK from the Labour Force Survey (LFS). residents in March, April and May (a) 2012 and (b) Tables 1 to 6 give the number and percentage of people, men 2013. [157917] and women who were employed according to survey responses, for the requested age bands for the 12 month periods ending Steve Webb: This information is not available. December 2008 and December 2012, the latest available period, The Department currently only receives annualised along with the change between these two periods from the APS for all parliamentary constituencies for Great Britain. Estimates summary data on discretionary housing payments and for UK and its constituent regions have also been supplied for does not hold details relating to monthly payments. comparison purposes. Estimates for parliamentary constituencies in Northern Ireland are not available directly from this source. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Tables 7 to 12 show the number and percentage of people, men Pensions if he will estimate the proportion of the and women who were employed according to survey responses, annual allocation in respect of discretionary housing for the requested age bands for the periods January to March payments for the current financial year which each 2008 and January to March 2013, along with the change between local authority in England, Wales and Scotland spent these-two periods from the LFS for the UK and its constituent on such payments to local residents in April and May regions. (a) 2012 and (b) 2013. [157918] As with any sample survey, estimates from the APS and LFS are subject to a margin of uncertainty. A guide to the quality of Steve Webb: This information is not available. the estimates is given in the tables based on survey results. National and local area estimates for many labour market The Department currently only receives annualised statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant summary data on discretionary housing payments and count are available on the NOMIS website at: does not hold details relating to monthly payments. http://www.nomisweb.co.uk Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for As this data is extensive, a copy has been place in the Library of the House. Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the number of service personnel affected by the Housing Benefit (Amendment) Regulations 2013 (SI 2003 No. Employment and Support Allowance 665). [158024]

Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Steve Webb: The information requested is not available. Work and Pensions (1) what proportion of The Department is unable to make an estimate from employment and support allowance claimants with survey data of non-dependant armed services personnel mental illness have been referred to treatments within normally residing with working age housing benefit the NHS or with subcontractors in the last period for claimants in the social sector as the sample size is too which figures are available; [158762] small. As a result estimates would be subject to a high (2) what proportion of employment and support degree of sampling error. Furthermore, administrative allowance claimants are mentally ill; how many of such data relating to employer details of non-dependants of claimants have been referred for treatment; and if he housing benefit households are not gathered as it is not will make a statement. [158766] necessary for the administration of the benefit.

Mr Hoban: Working with people with who have Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work mental health conditions such as depression or anxiety, and Pensions what guidance he has given to local we aim to help them rebuild their confidence so they are authorities on whether and how a panic room would be able to participate in the labour market in a way that is taken into account in the under-occupation rules. appropriate for them as individuals. However, the [158352] 305W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 306W

Steve Webb: We issued guidance on the removal of Mr Hoban: Information relating to the amount paid the spare room subsidy to local authorities in July last for external legal advice is not recorded in the form of year. This guidance did not refer to panic rooms, as we calendar years. The figures in the tables therefore show do not define what is meant by a bedroom in legislation. the 20 highest amounts paid in legal fees for the 2010-11, It is for the landlord to accurately describe the property the 2011-12 and the 2012-13 financial years. In addition, in line with the actual rent charged. it is not possible to distinguish between fees paid for An extra £25 million has been allocated in addition to legal advice and fees paid for legal representation without the £20 million baseline discretionary housing payment incurring disproportionate cost so these figures represent funding to specifically help those who live in specially the total legal spend for both advice and representation. adapted homes. The purpose for which the advice or representation There is no definition of significantly adapted was requested could only be ascertained by interrogation accommodation. It is up to local authorities to decide, of individual files and this would incur disproportionate based on local knowledge and individual circumstances. cost. This could include installation of a panic room. 2010-11 Supplier Paid (£)

Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 351,628.14 and Pensions what steps he is taking to monitor the Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 298,665.80 effect of the under-occupation rules on the safety of Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 276,353.19 victims of domestic violence who have been rehoused Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 263,765.40 in properties which they are deemed to under-occupy. Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 257,573.35 [158353] Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 227,199.40 Bindmans LLP 210,000.00 Steve Webb: The Department has commissioned a Harper Macleod LLP 193,000.00 consortium led by Ipsos MORI to undertake an Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 180,464.32 independent monitoring of the introduction of the Harper Macleod LLP 152,636.24 removal of the spare room subsidy measure. Harper Macleod LLP 114,352.00 The measure will be monitored and evaluated over a Harper Macleod LLP 113,624.22 two-year period from April this year. Initial findings Harper Macleod LLP 108,207.23 will be available in 2014 and the final report in late 2015. Harper Macleod LLP 103,329.29 The evaluation and monitoring will include effects of Harper Macleod LLP 100,000.00 the measures on supply issues; rural impacts; people Harper Macleod LLP 97,500.00 unable to share rooms (couples, disabled children); foster Harper Macleod LLP 96,500.00 carers; prospective adopters and prospective special Harper Macleod LLP 96,500.00 guardians. Harper Macleod LLP 96,500.00 Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 95,382.39 The research will also consider the impact on vulnerable individuals; financial status; health and wellbeing; family 2011-12 life and social networks. Supplier Paid (£) Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 242,046.81 Work and Pensions what assessment his Department Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 235,000.00 has made of the practicality of requiring the chain of Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 230,353.45 command of a member of the armed forces to confirm Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 224,324.07 that he or she is deployed overseas for purposes of Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 213,476.95 securing an exemption to the under-occupancy penalty Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 212,848.42 during such a deployment. [159114] Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 204,022.60 Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 203,844.49 Steve Webb: The Department has issued guidance to Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 198,546.45 local authorities on the action to take when a claimant Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 190,119.30 advises that an adult child who is normally a member of Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 187,561.53 their household is a member of the armed forces deployed Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 184,078.83 on operations. The Ministry of Defence were consulted Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 179,348.95 about the guidance and agreed with the approach it Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 177,998.20 outlined. Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 177,595.78 Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 151,347.40 Early indications are that as expected the number of 3Volution LLP 142,750.00 cases where this action has been taken is extremely low. Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 141,229.79 Harper Macleod LLP 96,500.00 Legal Costs Harper Macleod LLP 96,500.00

2012-13 Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Supplier Paid (£) and Pensions what the 20 highest amounts paid for Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 180,946.80 external legal advice by his Department were in (a) Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 143,724.15 2010, (b) 2011 and (c) 2012; to whom such payments Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 132,800.81 were paid; and for what reasons the legal advice was Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 127,131.40 sought. [158628] 307W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 308W

2012-13 arrangement, where claimants submit their appeal to a Supplier Paid (£) DWP decision maker who transfers the appeal to HMCTS, Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 123,479.05 causes delays in arranging tribunals, and confusion for Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 115,286.10 people who may not realise which organisation is responsible Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 112,952.63 for their appeal at any point. Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 112,226.53 The introduction of time limits for appeals responses A Evans 110,716.80 will provide people with a timeframe within which they Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 108,535.90 can expect DWP to process the response to an individual Bird and Bird LLP 99,882.70 appeal. Harper Macleod LLP 99,500.00 Harper Macleod LLP 97,500.00 Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Harper Macleod LLP 96,500.00 Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of Harper Macleod LLP 96,500.00 the effects of (a) benefit payment delays, (b) errors in Harper Macleod LLP 96,500.00 benefit payments and (c) sanctions on levels of food Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 88,220.75 poverty. [158943] Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP 86,388.40 Harper Macleod LLP 83,725.00 Mr Hoban [holding answer 10 June 2013]: We have Harper Macleod LLP 82,875.00 no evidence that the welfare system has had a negative impact on food poverty in the UK. The current welfare reforms and introduction of universal credit will simplify Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Work the system considerably, helping further minimise delays and Pensions how much his Department spent on and errors in payment as well as ensuring families are external legal advice from Queen’s Counsel (a) better off in work. Our aim is to pay people the benefits between 7 May 2010 and 4 September 2012 and (b) to which they are entitled accurately and on time and since 4 September 2012. [158653] this happens in the overwhelming majority of cases. Benefit sanctions are applied only in appropriate Mr Hoban: Our consolidated records of legal spend circumstances, i.e. where the claimant was made fully do not identify which barristers are Queen’s Counsel aware of what was required of them and the potential and which are junior Counsel. In addition, some Counsel consequences of failing to comply, a genuine doubt has were appointed to the rank of Queen’s Counsel part-way been identified and a decision made in the light of all through the relevant periods. Answering this question available information, including that provided by the would therefore involve looking at individual invoices claimant. for these factors and would incur disproportionate cost. Mr Woodward: To ask the Secretary of State for Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Work and Pensions how many people (a) currently and Pensions what the highest day rate paid for receive disability living allowance and (b) are expected external legal advice by his Department since 7 May to receive the personal independence payment in 2010 was. [158688] 2013-14 in (i) St Helens South and Whiston constituency, (ii) Merseyside and (iii) England. [159326] Mr Hoban: External legal advice is charged on the basis of an hourly rate, as opposed to a daily rate. Esther McVey: The available information on personal However, we only record the full invoice amount on our independence payment recipients in 2013-14 is published finance system. In order to establish the highest day rate in the budget tables available at: paid for external legal advice, we would need to look at every individual invoice and this would incur http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd4/ expenditure_tables_Budget_2013.xls disproportionate cost. Information on current disability living allowance Social Security Benefits case loads at a parliamentary constituency, regional and local authority level can also be found on the Department’s website at: Andy Sawford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what steps he is taking to shorten http://83.244.183.180/100pc/tabtool.html the time taken to process appeals against decisions of the employment and support allowance and disability Social Security Benefits: EU Nationals living allowance departments. [158049] Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Esther McVey: DWP and HMCTS are working closely and Pensions pursuant to the oral answer of 20 May to introduce improvements to the disputes and appeals 2013, Official Report, column 890, on benefits process. Mandatory reconsideration will improve the (immigration), what estimate he has made of the disputes process and effectively shorten the journey for number of EEA/EU jobseekers and workers who (a) all DWP-administered benefits, not just those referred are involuntarily unemployed and (b) do not have a to, by making sure that as many disputes as possible are genuine chance of finding a job within six months. resolved without the need to appeal. [159261] The introduction of direct lodgement means that anyone who still wishes to appeal following a mandatory Mr Hoban: Currently we are unable to estimate the reconsideration will need to submit their appeal directly number of EEA/EU jobseekers and workers who are to HMCTS, instead of going through DWP. This will involuntarily unemployed and do not have genuine speed up and clarify the appeals process. The current chance of finding a job within six months, as the 309W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 310W nationality and immigration status of benefit claimants 1. The 10 highest amounts received by the 12.8 million state is not recorded as part of the payment administrative pension recipients are by their very nature atypical. In the main systems. these ten people were receiving all components of the state pension either in their own right or with some inherited amounts Looking forward, the Government is looking at ways which included an increase derived from a significant period of to record nationality ,and immigration status of migrants deferral. The various components include graduated retirement who make a claim to universal credit so that we have benefit, basic and additional pension and, in some cases, an adult more robust management information about our claimants. dependency increase. 2. 99% of state pension recipients at that date received a weekly Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Work amount of £240 or less. and Pensions pursuant to the oral answer of 20 May 3. Individual amounts have not been supplied, as they would be 2013, Official Report, column 890, on benefits potentially disclosive, when combined with other information. (immigration), what estimate he has made of the Source: number of EU citizens from outside the UK who have DWP Information, Governance and Security, Work and Pensions no entitlement to work in the UK but are currently Longitudinal Study claiming contributory benefits. [159264] Unemployment: Older People Mr Hoban: It is not currently possible to produce estimates of the numbers of EU citizens who are claiming Jim Sheridan: To ask the Secretary of State for Work contributory benefits. This is because whilst currently and Pensions what steps he is taking to help we check the nationality and immigration status of unemployed people over the age of 64 years in (a) benefit claimants to ensure the benefit is paid properly Paisley and Renfrewshire North constituency, (b) and to prevent fraud; this information is not recorded Scotland and (c) the UK return to work. [158720] as part of the payment administrative systems. Contributory benefits, such as contribution based Mr Hoban: Advisers in local Jobcentres now have the jobseeker’s allowance and employment and support flexibility to offer all claimants, including older people, allowance, are payable to anyone who satisfies the a comprehensive menu of help which includes skills contribution and other conditions for the benefit, provision and job search support. All claimants who are regardless of nationality. Generally someone would need long term unemployed can access the tailored, back to to have been working and paying national insurance in work support, on offer from the Work Programme. the UK for around two years to qualify for contributory benefits. For example an EU national who has a legal Universal Credit right to reside in the UK as a worker who becomes temporarily unemployed, or temporarily incapacitated, Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work may qualify for contributory jobseeker’s allowance or and Pensions (1) if he will carry out an impact employment and support allowance on this basis. assessment for the introduction of housing costs contributions under universal credit; [158416] Social Security Benefits: Mental Illness (2) what assessment he has made of the potential effects on levels of youth homelessness of the Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for introduction of housing costs contributions under Work and Pensions what assessment was made of the universal credit. [158419] effects of the Welfare Reform Act 2013 on those experiencing difficulties with their mental health. Steve Webb: I refer the hon. Member to the written [159283] answer I gave the hon. Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward), on 6 June 2013, Official Report, column Mr Hoban: A series of impact assessments were 1252W. carried out for the measures introduced under the Welfare Reform Act 2012. The assessments consider the equality Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work groups covered by the equality legislation including: and Pensions what estimate he has made of potential disability (including physical and mental impairment); savings to the public purse arising from the age; gender (transgender); ethnicity; religion; sexual introduction of housing costs contributions under orientation; pregnancy/maternity; and civil partnerships. universal credit. [158417] We are committed to monitoring the impacts of our policies and use evidence from a number of sources on Steve Webb: I refer the hon. Member to the written the experiences and outcomes of the protected groups. answer I gave the hon. Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward), on 5 June 2013, Official Report, columns State Retirement Pensions 1214-15W.

John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Work and Pensions what the amounts of the 10 largest and Pensions how many households will be affected by state pensions paid to individuals are in the latest year the introduction of housing costs contributions in (a) for which figures are available. [156156] Scotland and (b) the UK. [158418]

Steve Webb: As at November 2012, the 10 largest Steve Webb: I refer the hon. Member to the written state pensions paid to individuals were above £450 per answer I gave the hon. Member for Glasgow North week. East (Mr Bain), on 3 June 2013, Official Report, columns Notes: 1050-52W. 311W Written Answers11 JUNE 2013 Written Answers 312W

Universal Credit: North West Mr Hoban: The information requested is not currently available. The data required are not yet ready for analysis. Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on what date jobcentres in (a) Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Wigan, (b) Warrington and (c) Oldham will start to Work and Pensions which jobcentres will have a accept applications for universal credit. [158584] specialist adviser working with people who have returned to Jobcentre Plus after two years on the Work Mr Hoban [holding answer 10 June 2013]: We are on programme. [159224] track with the successful roll-out of pathfinder. As we announced earlier this year, Wigan, Warrington and Mr Hoban: All jobcentres have made arrangements Oldham Jobcentres will start taking claims during July. to ensure that there are advisers in place with the necessary skills to help support these claimants returning Work Programme from the Work programme after two years.

Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many individuals are expected Work and Pensions which jobseekers returning from to return to the supervision of Jobcentre Plus by 30 the Work programme will be expected to meet their June 2013 having completed two years on the Work Jobcentre Plus advisor each day. [159282] programme. [159222] Mr Hoban: Advisers will consider a number of Mr Hoban: Projections of people expected to take up interventions for use with claimants on a case by case post-Work programme support would be based on data basis. the Department plans to release as official statistics. We Advisers may choose to call in claimants daily for a are therefore unable to provide estimates in response to number of reasons, including: this PQ without compromising the integrity of the to test compliance, e.g. time keeping; statistical release. to improve motivation, self-confidence, and work ethic; and Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for to follow up regular activities the adviser has set the claimant. Work and Pensions what proportion of jobseekers Jobcentres receive employer vacancies on a daily basis. returning to Jobcentre Plus after being on the Work Claimants who attend the Jobcentre more often have programme for two years have received a sanction in early access to such opportunities and may be referred the last two years. [159223] straight away if suitable.

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 11 June 2013

Col. No. Col. No. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH ...... 139 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH—continued Accident and Emergency Departments National Cancer Drugs Fund ...... 153 (Ministerial Visits)...... 148 NHS Accountability ...... 147 Antimicrobial Resistance Strategy ...... 153 NHS Hospitals (Bed Occupancy) ...... 144 Cancer Waiting Times ...... 146 NHS Resource Allocation ...... 150 Children’s Heart Surgery (Yorkshire and the NHS Services (Local Commissioning)...... 151 Humber)...... 141 Pre-natal and Post-natal Care ...... 141 Clinical Commissioning Groups (Funding) ...... 139 St Helier Hospital...... 154 East Midlands Ambulance Service ...... 152 Tobacco Packaging...... 143 Mental and Physical Health...... 150 Topical Questions ...... 155 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Tuesday 11 June 2013

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL...... 6WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE...... 4WS Child Sexual Abuse...... 6WS FCO Spending 2013-14...... 4WS

DEFENCE...... 3WS JUSTICE...... 6WS Defence Recovery Capability...... 3WS Pre-trial Cross-examination Testing...... 6WS PETITION

Tuesday 11 June 2013

Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT ...... 3P Mobility access to Goring and Streatley Station...... 3P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Monday 10 June 2013—[Continued.]

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 201W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Adult Education...... 201W Manufacturing Industries ...... 208W Bangladesh ...... 202W New Businesses: Government Assistance...... 209W Business: Credit ...... 202W New Businesses: Young People ...... 210W Business: Staffordshire...... 203W Pay...... 211W Companies: Birmingham...... 204W Plastic Bags: Italy ...... 211W Credit: Licensing ...... 204W Post Offices: Digital Technology...... 212W Cybercrime ...... 205W Public Houses: Closures ...... 212W EU Internal Trade ...... 205W Regional Growth Fund...... 212W Food ...... 205W Regional Growth Fund: North West...... 213W Fossil Fuels...... 205W Research: Cancer ...... 213W Further Education: Public Appointments...... 206W Royal Mail...... 213W Higher Education: Business...... 206W Sign Language ...... 214W HMS Ark Royal ...... 206W Skilled Workers: Science ...... 214W Industry...... 207W Students: Work Experience...... 215W Insurance Companies: Billing ...... 207W Technology: Education ...... 215W Intellectual Property ...... 207W Travel...... 216W Iron and Steel: Industry...... 208W UK Trade and Investment: Cumbria ...... 217W Land Registry ...... 208W WRITTEN ANSWERS

Tuesday 11 June 2013

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL...... 224W ATTORNEY-GENERAL—continued Capita...... 224W Human Trafficking...... 224W Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL—continued EDUCATION—continued Prosecutions ...... 225W Schools: Admissions...... 231W Schools: Buildings ...... 232W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 249W Schools: Finance ...... 232W Business: Loans ...... 249W Capita...... 249W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 242W Charity Research Support Fund...... 250W Accountancy...... 242W Credit: Advertising ...... 250W Energy: Coventry...... 242W Credit: Licensing ...... 251W Energy: Disconnections ...... 243W Employment Tribunals Service ...... 251W Warm Front Scheme...... 243W Factories: Foreign Workers...... 252W Overseas Companies...... 252W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS ..... 246W Overseas Companies: Developing Countries ...... 253W Bovine Tuberculosis...... 246W Overseas Trade: BRIC Countries...... 254W Cattle: Vaccination ...... 247W Overseas Trade: Central America ...... 254W Dairy Products: Exports ...... 247W Refrigeration...... 255W Food: Prices...... 247W Teachers: Training ...... 255W Wines...... 248W Textiles: Apprentices...... 256W Trade Promotion ...... 256W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE...... 274W British Indian Ocean Territory ...... 274W CABINET OFFICE...... 289W Henderson Island ...... 274W Charities ...... 289W India ...... 275W Conditions of Employment ...... 291W Kenya ...... 275W Crimes against the Person...... 291W Montserrat...... 275W Cybercrime ...... 293W Palestinians...... 276W Health...... 293W Rockall ...... 276W Politics and Government ...... 297W South Sudan ...... 276W Public Sector: Mutual Societies ...... 299W Sudan ...... 277W Public Sector: Procurement...... 299W Voluntary Work ...... 300W HEALTH...... 257W Accident and Emergency Departments...... 257W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT ...... 222W Ambulance Services: East of England ...... 258W Capita...... 222W Cancer ...... 258W Green Belt ...... 222W Capita...... 260W Homelessness: Yorkshire and the Humber ...... 222W Emergency Services ...... 259W Housing: Construction ...... 223W General Practitioners...... 259W Housing: North West ...... 223W Health Education: Young People...... 260W Leeds City Region ...... 224W Health Services ...... 261W Hospices ...... 262W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 245W Legal Costs...... 262W Pay...... 245W Multiple Sclerosis ...... 264W Sign Language ...... 245W Muscular Dystrophy: West Midlands ...... 265W Swimming Pools ...... 246W NHS: Pensions...... 265W NHS Services: England and Wales...... 257W DEFENCE...... 232W Obesity ...... 258W Afghanistan...... 232W Prescriptions: Fees and Charges ...... 266W Air Force: Training...... 232W Social Services ...... 266W Armed Conflict: Children...... 233W Tobacco Packaging...... 257W Armed Forces: Complaints...... 233W Armed Forces: English Defence League...... 234W HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 220W Armed Forces: Mental Illness ...... 234W Drugs...... 220W Armed Forces: Qualifications...... 235W Gating Orders...... 221W Armed Forces: Training...... 235W Private Finance Initiative...... 221W Army: Redundancy ...... 238W Radicalism...... 221W Libya ...... 239W Military Exercises...... 239W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 277W Radar: Hebrides ...... 240W Bangladesh ...... 277W Radar: Wind Power ...... 240W Business: Forced Labour...... 278W Reorganisation...... 240W Capita...... 278W Royal Fleet Auxiliary...... 241W Legal Costs...... 278W Telephone Services...... 241W Palestinians...... 279W Unmanned Air Vehicles...... 242W South Sudan ...... 279W Wind Power ...... 242W Syria ...... 280W

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 267W JUSTICE...... 280W Electoral Register ...... 267W Criminal Defence Service...... 280W General Elections: Voting Behaviour ...... 268W Employment and Support Allowance: Appeals ...... 281W Homicide: Sentencing...... 282W EDUCATION ...... 229W Prisoner Escorts...... 282W Capita...... 229W Prisoners’ Transfers ...... 283W Females: Education ...... 230W Prisons: Electronic Equipment...... 283W First Aid: Curriculum ...... 230W Probation...... 284W Free School Meals...... 230W Public Sector: Information...... 287W Health Education: Skin Cancer...... 231W Roads: Accidents ...... 287W Higher Education: Brigg ...... 231W Telephone Services...... 288W Col. No. Col. No. JUSTICE—continued TREASURY ...... 226W Vetting: Construction ...... 288W Banks: Loans...... 226W Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act 1999 ...... 288W Banks: Scotland...... 226W Gift Aid...... 227W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 219W Intestacy ...... 227W Capita...... 219W Statutory Sick Pay...... 227W Legal Costs...... 219W WALES ...... 220W PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMISSION...... 219W Accountancy...... 220W Legal Costs...... 219W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 243W SCOTLAND ...... 228W Rape: Victim Support Schemes...... 243W Accountancy...... 228W Regulation ...... 244W Capita...... 228W Domestic Visits...... 228W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 301W Legal Costs...... 228W Atos Healthcare...... 301W Pensions: Tax Allowances...... 229W Capita...... 301W Children: Maintenance ...... 301W TRANSPORT ...... 268W Domestic Violence...... 302W Accountancy...... 268W Employment ...... 302W Capita...... 268W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 303W Driving: Licensing ...... 269W Food Banks ...... 304W East Coast Railway Line...... 269W Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing...... 304W High Speed 2 Railway Line...... 269W Legal Costs...... 305W Legal Costs...... 271W Social Security Benefits...... 307W Light Dues...... 271W Social Security Benefits: EU Nationals...... 308W Motor Vehicles: Testing ...... 271W Social Security Benefits: Mental Illness ...... 309W Piers...... 272W State Retirement Pensions...... 309W Railways: Medway ...... 272W Unemployment: Older People...... 310W Railways: Windermere...... 272W Universal Credit ...... 310W Rescue Services: Aberdeen...... 273W Universal Credit: North West ...... 311W Roads: Yorkshire and the Humber...... 274W Work Programme ...... 311W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

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CONTENTS

Tuesday 11 June 2013

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 139] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Health

GCSEs [Col. 161] Statement—(Michael Gove)

Children and Families Bill [Col. 175] As amended, considered; read the Third time and passed

Court of Justice of the European Union [Col. 295] Motion—(Mr Lidington)—agreed to

Tribunals and Inquiries [Col. 312] Motion—(Greg Hands); Division deferred till tomorrow

Budock Hospital Site [Col. 314] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall First World War Commemoration [Col. 1WH] Ukrainian Holodomor [Col. 25WH] SMEs (Public Sector Procurement) [Col. 31WH] Prepayment Meters [Col. 55WH] Gangmasters Licensing Authority (Civil Fines) [Col. 63WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 3WS]

Petition [Col. 3P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 201W]