Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee
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S T A N D I N G C O M M I T T E E O F T Y N W A L D C O U R T O F F I C I A L R E P O R T R E C O R T Y S O I K O I L B I N G V E A Y N T I N V A A L P R O C E E D I N G S D A A L T Y N Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee Legal Services HANSARD Douglas, Monday, 17th December 2018 PP2018/0190 CLAJ-LS, No. 4/2018 All published Official Reports can be found on the Tynwald website: www.tynwald.org.im/business/hansard Published by the Office of the Clerk of Tynwald, Legislative Buildings, Finch Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IM1 3PW. © High Court of Tynwald, 2018 STANDING COMMITTEE, MONDAY, 17th DECEMBER 2018 Members Present: Chairman: Mrs J P Poole-Wilson MLC Mr L L Hooper MHK Mr C R Robertshaw MHK Clerk: Mr R I S Phillips Assistant Clerk: Miss F Gale Contents Procedural .................................................................................................................................... 101 EVIDENCE OF First Deemster and Clerk of the Rolls, Andrew Corlett; Deemster Alastair Montgomerie; Deputy High Bailiff, Jane Hughes; and Chief Registrar, Stuart Quayle ................ 101 The Committee sat in private at 12.50 p.m. ................................................................................ 134 __________________________________________________________________ 100 CLAJ-LS/18 STANDING COMMITTEE, MONDAY, 17th DECEMBER 2018 Standing Committee of Tynwald on Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Legal Services The Committee sat in public at 10.30 a.m. in the Legislative Council Chamber, Legislative Buildings, Douglas [MRS POOLE-WILSON in the Chair] Procedural 5 The Chairman (Mrs Poole-Wilson): Good morning and welcome to this public meeting of the Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee. I am Jane Poole-Wilson MLC and I chair this Committee. With me are the other members of the Committee, Mr Lawrie Hooper MHK and Mr Chris Robertshaw MHK. Today we are taking evidence on the topic of legal services in the Isle of Man. This inquiry is 10 an amalgam of our previously announced inquiry into the regulation of legal services in the Isle of Man and our more recently announced inquiry into the process of becoming a Manx advocate. This inquiry will also include consideration of the proposed Public Defender Scheme. We will be hearing today from three members of the Manx judiciary, accompanied by the Chief Registrar. 15 Before we begin, could I please ask everyone to ensure that any mobile phones are off or on silent, so that we do not have any interruptions; and for the purposes of Hansard I will also be ensuring that we do not have two people speaking at once. EVIDENCE OF First Deemster and Clerk of the Rolls, Andrew Corlett; Deemster Alastair Montgomerie; Deputy High Bailiff, Jane Hughes; and Chief Registrar, Stuart Quayle Q258. The Chairman: Thank you for attending today. For the record, could you each please state your name and the capacity in which you are appearing today. 20 The Deputy High Bailiff: My name is Jane Hughes. I am the Deputy High Bailiff. The First Deemster: Andrew Corlett, First Deemster. 25 Deemster Montgomerie: Alastair Montgomerie, Deemster. The Chief Registrar: Stuart Quayle, Chief Registrar. __________________________________________________________________ 101 CLAJ-LS/18 STANDING COMMITTEE, MONDAY, 17th DECEMBER 2018 Q259. The Chairman: Thank you. Before we begin, I thought it would be helpful to acknowledge for the record that this Committee respects the separation of powers between the 30 judiciary, the executive and the legislature, and understands that there is a line between members of the judiciary giving evidence pertinent to the effective operation of the courts and legal services, whilst avoiding commenting on matters that might impact the independence and impartiality of the judiciary. I think it is probably also worth stating that perhaps the fear of crossing this line is one of the 35 reasons why Members of our parliament have not engaged as well as they might have done with the judiciary on matters where it is important to take your evidence into account. So we very much welcome having you here today to take your evidence and we would also like to reassure you that this Committee wishes to adopt a considered approach to taking evidence, which respects the boundaries that I have mentioned. 40 Can I thank you also for your written submission to the Committee and what we would like to do is explore some of the things that you have raised in your written submission a little more. So if I could start, please, thinking about the use of non-Manx qualified judges in our courts. You provided some information on the numbers of part-time, non-resident judges that appear in or that sit in our courts and the reasons for using non-resident, part-time members of the 45 judiciary. I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about what you see the trends to be. Are we seeing more non-resident, part-time members of the judiciary and if we are, what are the reasons for that? The First Deemster: Madam Chairman, thank you very much for those opening comments, 50 which are much appreciated. I for my own part do not see any particular change in the pattern of using non-resident judges. It is very much driven by demand. Particular cases cause a particular spike in demand for the use of non-resident Deemsters and I think, certainly from my own perspective, it is a fairly steady pattern. 55 For example, at the moment of course we are one judge down, as it were. We are still in the process of replacing the gaps left when the previous First Deemster retired. So we are probably using not only non-resident judges but we are using the panel perhaps more than we might have done maybe this time last year. But, subject to what my colleagues have to say on that, I do not see any major change. 60 Q260. The Chairman: So it is a question of demand, capacity, (The First Deemster: It is.) rather than any need for specialist knowledge or experience. The First Deemster: Sometimes it is driven by specialist knowledge. I think we said that in our 65 memorandum, but it is usually a case which is a very lengthy one. For example, if we are told the case is going to last four to six weeks or even longer, to have one of the permanent members of the judiciary dealing with that would cause major problems – we would just not be able to deal with anything else during that time, and that would cause problems. Yes, it is more to do with length of proceedings, certainly on the civil side which I have most to do with. 70 I think there has been a bit of a spike in certain elements of criminal work – proceeds of crime I think has tended to increase. Maybe Deemster Montgomerie could say something about that, and we have had to bring in people to deal with that more recently. Deemster Montgomerie: Yes, I think as a result of the Moneyval visit to the Isle of Man, it 75 would be fair to say that the number of proceeds of crime applications to the court have spiked. They have gone up, I would use the word ‘dramatically’. As a consequence, whenever you get an increase in the number of orders that the court makes under the Proceeds of Crime Act, you are going to get an increase in the number of challenges to the orders that the court has made and __________________________________________________________________ 102 CLAJ-LS/18 STANDING COMMITTEE, MONDAY, 17th DECEMBER 2018 that too has increased considerably. Certainly as a result, I have started using specialists in 80 proceeds of crime matters from England to deal with the challenges. Q261. The Chairman: Okay, thank you. Anything on that? Thank you. If then we could look at appearance in the courts by non-Manx advocates, and again I suppose the question from the Committee’s perspective is a bit more about the 85 situations that, in your experience, give rise to non-Manx advocates being temporarily licensed to appear in the courts. Again, are you seeing any particular trends? Are you seeing more people being granted temporary licences? So any further information you can give us on that, please. The First Deemster: I think we have addressed this in the paper. I am not sure whether we 90 actually provided any statistics, did we, Mr Quayle, as such? We could certainly provide those statistics very easily because they are certainly kept. That is one area where we do have, I think, pretty reliable statistics. Again from my perspective, I would suggest that probably the statistics will show a decrease actually in the number of specialists or non-Manx advocates being licensed under the Advocates 95 Act. I think the decisions of my predecessor and indeed, the various judges of appeal who have dealt with reviews from those decisions, have to some extent, not exactly tightened the criteria because the criteria are laid down by statute, but the fact is that we do now have an excellent selection of specialists in the Manx Bar who can deal with virtually every case. It is pretty rare that one cannot find, or a client cannot find, the specialism that is needed for a particular case. 100 Again, one will find very lengthy cases where the demands on an advocate’s practice will be such that it would be of necessity that the client will want to have a barrister who can devote weeks or sometimes months to a particular case.